2021-06-19 11:27:20	-->	wymiller (~wyatt@096-042-164-072.res.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 11:27:20	--	Topic for #linux is "Welcome to #Linux. Help/support for any Linux distribution. Discussion about the various aspects of Linux and Free/Open Source software is also encouraged. Rules at https://linux.chat/linux-on-libera/channel-rules/ -- Pastebin: "<command> | nc termbin.com 9999" (please don't use pastebin.com) -- No SMS (u, thx, etc.) -- Need an op? Join #linux-ops"
2021-06-19 11:27:20	--	Topic set by lacroix (dlacroix@about/linux/staff/lacroix) on Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:22:20
2021-06-19 11:27:20	--	Channel #linux: 1415 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 1414 normals)
2021-06-19 11:27:22	--	Channel created on Wed, 19 May 2021 08:13:34
2021-06-19 11:27:47	PlayerOne	I'm sorry, xdotool, for now...
2021-06-19 11:27:51	hexnewbie	PlayerOne: "$PPID" works for me, but it's an accidental detail, most likely.
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2021-06-19 11:28:05	VG9t	toretto: no, would have to use ssh
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2021-06-19 11:29:02	PlayerOne	hexnewbie, perhaps, it would require to loop through parents until first Konsole
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2021-06-19 11:29:47	onelegend	what's funny is that hexnewbie is not a newbie
2021-06-19 11:29:59	onelegend	they're probably one of the most experienced users here
2021-06-19 11:30:10	hexnewbie	PlayerOne: It's possible Konsole provides a DBus interface for what you need in e.g. qdbus "$KONSOLE_DBUS_SERVICE" "$KONSOLE_DBUS_WINDOW"
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2021-06-19 11:30:28	hexnewbie	PlayerOne: Or "$KONSOLE_DBUS_SESSION" instead of WINDOW of you want to do it on the current tab only (?)
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2021-06-19 11:34:02	hexnewbie	PlayerOne: Not sure if /Windows/1 and /konsole/MainWindow_1 are the same thing, if so, you can do: qdbus "$KONSOLE_DBUS_SERVICE" "/konsole/MainWindow_${KONSOLE_DBUS_WINDOW##*/}" org.kde.KMainWindow.winId
2021-06-19 11:34:07	akik	eqw: what are your boot options?
2021-06-19 11:34:20	hexnewbie	PlayerOne: If they are *not* the same thing, you'd have to wai to find /konsole/MainWindow_1
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2021-06-19 11:34:52	hexnewbie	Hm, they are definitely not, sorry
2021-06-19 11:35:49	akik	eqw: i use -vga virtio and for example ubuntu 20.04 works fine with qemu-system-x86_64 with -enable-kvm
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2021-06-19 11:48:07	eqw	akik: https://termbin.com/tpp5
2021-06-19 11:48:53	akik	wall-of-options
2021-06-19 11:49:34	akik	eqw: you're using a lot of options i have no idea about. i'll show you mine
2021-06-19 11:49:53	hexnewbie	libvirt is always cool, I especially love -name guest=xenial,debug-threads=on - that both broke my scripts for finding the VM 'guest1' PID, *and* made the htop output worse to read
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2021-06-19 11:50:17	akik	eqw: https://pastebin.com/raw/VyYCtsQe
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2021-06-19 11:52:04	eqw	avik: I changed my video from cirrus to virtio and that helped. Thanks!
2021-06-19 11:52:17	akik	nice
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2021-06-19 11:56:14	bewees	hi, what hids do you recommend? I read about tripwire and ossec, looks like tripwire is free too
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2021-06-19 11:59:30	jim	so is ossec
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2021-06-19 12:00:38	mouses	silly question - is anyone aware of a group for ghostCMS users in libera?
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2021-06-19 12:01:00	jim	ossec is sorta like fail2ban, in that it reads logs to figure out what action to take, which is usually looking for excessive failed logins, which it responds by banning the ip for a bit
2021-06-19 12:01:40	mouses	jim: the best part is when I forget that I have fail2ban running on a server and screw up my certs and lock myself out, it works :)
2021-06-19 12:01:55	bewees	yeah ossec is free, wasn't sure if tripwire is 100% free, I read that some had some license issues, but I think nowerdays it's 100% free
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2021-06-19 12:03:44	bewees	on github ossec looks much more active, last tripwire commit in 2018
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2021-06-19 12:07:48	gtlsgamr	yo.
2021-06-19 12:09:17	eqw	how to change a number of columns/rows in text mode ?
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2021-06-19 12:14:36	akik	eqw: with qemu?
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2021-06-19 12:16:29	eqw	akik: i think it is common question. It can be on real or virtual hardware.
2021-06-19 12:16:46	eqw	s/common/general/
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2021-06-19 12:16:49	akik	eqw: resize
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2021-06-19 12:19:51	eqw	akik: resize is part of xterm, isn't it ?
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2021-06-19 12:20:56	eqw	xterm works in X which requires graphics mode
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2021-06-19 12:22:45	velix	Hmm... Is it bad to have multiple containers writing to a shared /dev/log or can journald handle it?
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2021-06-19 12:27:12	uwharrie	velix: that's generally the purpose of /dev/log, to handle multiple processes writing log messages
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2021-06-19 12:29:37	velix	okay. I thought it could block or something
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2021-06-19 12:30:45	 *	msiism looks at some blocking containers.
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2021-06-19 12:33:14	velix	I really don't get the sense of Minio. S3 has the benefit of being able to store millions of small files. Minio just uses the existing filesystem, e.g. ext4. Millions of files will be deadly here (with default settings). There's no word about this on their website.
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2021-06-19 12:39:40	 *	msiism now uses a chain of containers to block a sandbox pipeline.
2021-06-19 12:40:47	akik	"With READ/WRITE speeds of 183 GB/s and 171 GB/s on standard hardware" i want that hardware
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2021-06-19 12:42:25	Trel	I'm trying to figure out if I suck at searching, or if I'm on a fool's errand.  I'm trying to cast to a miracast enabled TV, I've looked at miraclecast but that doesn't seem to do what I want nor allow me to stay online while even trying since I need to kill network manage and wpa supplicant to even use it
2021-06-19 12:42:45	Trel	Is there anything I'm missing?  At my simplest setup, I'd like to cast from Openbox, or barring that, Plasma.
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2021-06-19 12:43:03	rozyvvy	hi
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2021-06-19 12:43:08	jim	hi
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2021-06-19 12:45:49	Trel	Should probably clarify that I want to cast my screen, not a video or stream.
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2021-06-19 12:50:29	Trel	Nevermind for now, gotta shut down and don't have a persistant connection to monitor replys while offline.  I'll ask another time.
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2021-06-19 12:51:23	sc0tt2	I put a .sh file in /etc/cron.daily but it never seems to run, any way to see what's happening?
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2021-06-19 12:52:51	sc0tt2	nvm figured it out
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2021-06-19 12:53:09	Psi-Jack	heh
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2021-06-19 12:53:48	rob`	slight pro tip, for debian derivatives at least run-parts --test <dir>
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2021-06-19 12:54:02	rob`	sanity check for whether your .d folder is parsing right
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2021-06-19 13:00:45	greatcoof	hi
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2021-06-19 13:01:55	greatcoof	i want a distro with everything pre-configured but thats small in size
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2021-06-19 13:02:30	Despatche	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187323981773144064/855854505916366864/1624038506200.jpg
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2021-06-19 13:02:57	msiism	greatcoof: Then you need to find a distribution that has a sufficient definition of "everything".
2021-06-19 13:03:27	greatcoof	linux mint or noobuntu ?
2021-06-19 13:03:32	msiism	Despatche: And that's supposed to mean what?
2021-06-19 13:03:43	msiism	greatcoof: What do you mean by small in size?
2021-06-19 13:03:59	greatcoof	the megabytes you download
2021-06-19 13:04:03	-->	Inline (~Inline@2a02:908:1252:7a80:c035:deeb:51be:5431) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 13:04:19	msiism	greatcoof: Download when? When you get the installation medium, or in general?
2021-06-19 13:04:32	msiism	I mean, you will also doenload updates later.
2021-06-19 13:05:16	greatcoof	msiism: i just want something to slap on my flash drive and liveboot from when i cant stand winhows on public computers
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2021-06-19 13:05:51	greatcoof	btw what Despatche sent is probably malware
2021-06-19 13:06:14	hexnewbie	Install a regular distro on the flash drive, an e.g. netinstall image would only download what you install
2021-06-19 13:06:53	Despatche	...what
2021-06-19 13:07:22	greatcoof	Despatche: lots of people use discord attachments to send malware
2021-06-19 13:07:54	msiism	Despatche: Why do you post a link without any further description?
2021-06-19 13:08:13	Despatche	what are these reactions lmao
2021-06-19 13:08:22	kodah	fun fact: there is nowhere to live in san francisco
2021-06-19 13:08:27	hexnewbie	Despatche: You infect our linuxen!
2021-06-19 13:08:33	greatcoof	hexnewbie: i want to live boot from it (very important) i dont wanna wipe public computers
2021-06-19 13:08:36	Dagmar	Well, nowhere _cheap_ that isn't in the 'loin
2021-06-19 13:08:38	Despatche	kodah: correct
2021-06-19 13:08:51	Despatche	also everything is on fire all the time, whether figuratively or literally
2021-06-19 13:08:58	hexnewbie	greatcoof: Install the distro *on* the flash drive, not on the public computer.
2021-06-19 13:09:13	msiism	Despatche: If you post a link, you better provide a bit of a description, unless it's clearly in context.
2021-06-19 13:09:17	hexnewbie	greatcoof: Flash drive = hard drive. No need for live distro.
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2021-06-19 13:09:35	Dagmar	No, only the hillside between the months of May and November (California Fire Season)
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2021-06-19 13:09:59	Dagmar	If there were fires _in_ the city that often, the San Francisco Fire Warriors would eventually chainsaw the entire city off
2021-06-19 13:10:06	greatcoof	hexnewbie: then i need another flash drive to with liveboot to install it on nte first flashdrive
2021-06-19 13:10:23	hexnewbie	(Note that a properly configured public computer should refuse to boot from your flash drive, notwithstanding the fact that I've never seen a computer properly configured in this manner)
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2021-06-19 13:10:43	Dagmar	Booting from a thumbdrive isn't the problem.
2021-06-19 13:10:51	hexnewbie	greatcoof: Well, you could also bootstrap manually, it will be more work, and more difficult, but less megabytes to download
2021-06-19 13:10:53	kodah	well i'll be in SF after the next month or so if someone wants to exist in real life
2021-06-19 13:10:55	Dagmar	RUnning someone's malware installer from said thumbdrive
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2021-06-19 13:12:02	hexnewbie	If the flash drive can boot, it can disseminate whatever malware it needs to during that process.
2021-06-19 13:12:07	greatcoof	hexnewbie: if i wanna do that i can just copy my artix install but i dont have my computer rn (talking from stalin's dream)
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2021-06-19 13:12:53	Despatche	dagmar: well, i said figuratively too! temps are approaching 120 over there right now
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2021-06-19 13:13:10	Dagmar	Despatche: no, they are not.
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2021-06-19 13:13:30	Dagmar	One of the things I remember for sure is that San Francisco barely has "weather"
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2021-06-19 13:14:07	Dagmar	Arizona is reacing for 120, but almost any time of year you can say "It's 65F in the Bay" and you'll never be more than ten degrees off
2021-06-19 13:14:27	greatcoof	Despatche: punch line: dont send links without explination + dont use proprietary apps in front of a GNUtard like me :p
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2021-06-19 13:14:46	Despatche	dagmar: if you say so...
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2021-06-19 13:15:08	Dagmar	According to NOAA it's 65F in San Francisco right now
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2021-06-19 13:15:30	hexnewbie	San Francisco is not as seen on TV then! I want a refund!
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2021-06-19 13:15:54	Dagmar	I was at a party out there one night where it was 55f wearing just a hoodie and people from San Diego were acting like an icy armageddon had begun
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2021-06-19 13:16:22	Despatche	well yes americans hate even cool weather, that's why they all want to live in places like florida
2021-06-19 13:16:26	Dagmar	Like dear god the temperature has fallen below 60f what do we do! How do we survive!
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2021-06-19 13:17:38	Dagmar	Normally I would not call an entire group of strangers p******s but I grew up in Nashville where it can go from 25F to 75F and back again in 48 hours, no problem
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2021-06-19 13:17:57	Tom^	Dagmar: you bring out your sunbed go bathing and playing on the beach, thats the warm summerday temps here.
2021-06-19 13:18:04	hexnewbie	Well, at least htey probably don't believe they'll catch a cold from it, like some other places...
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2021-06-19 13:18:32	noobly	I'm running react in virtualbox, trying to make it so I can view the projects on the host machine. not really sure what I need my network settings to look (NAT vs bridged adapter, etc). I think I want a bridged connection, but can't input the appropriate IPs with that option
2021-06-19 13:18:40	Despatche	i think some people are genuinely sexually attracted to hot weather
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2021-06-19 13:18:53	Despatche	which is concerning for the future
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2021-06-19 13:19:49	hexnewbie	Despatche: We are. UV light is addictive.
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2021-06-19 13:21:29	zjmc_	Despatche: we did evolve in sub saharan Africa :)
2021-06-19 13:21:31	Dagmar	noobly: Friends don't let friends use virtualbox
2021-06-19 13:21:43	greatcoof	hot weather is great!
2021-06-19 13:21:54	Despatche	i don't think sub-saharan africa used to look like it does now...
2021-06-19 13:21:56	noobly	dagmar: what's the best alternative?
2021-06-19 13:22:14	noobly	anyway i just need to this to work, I can worry about switching the vmware later
2021-06-19 13:22:18	jim	probably qemu/kvm
2021-06-19 13:22:21	<--	johnjay (~pi@38.120.10.99) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 13:22:23	Dagmar	Under Linux we have KVM/QEMU, and virt-manager as a GUI interface
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2021-06-19 13:22:26	zjmc_	Teue, but it was hot
2021-06-19 13:22:30	greatcoof	as long as it isn't too hot to handle :p
2021-06-19 13:22:38	zjmc_	Teue = True
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2021-06-19 13:23:12	greatcoof	s/Teue = True/s/teue/true
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2021-06-19 13:23:36	greatcoof	:D
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2021-06-19 13:23:41	Dagmar	noobly: If your'e wanting the VM to appear and act as if it had a NIC that's plugged into teh switch right next to where the vmhost is plugged in, you need a bridge, and you need to make the vmhost's ethernet interface a _member_ of that bridge
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2021-06-19 13:24:02	Despatche	til it is possible for the sahara to not be a desert
2021-06-19 13:24:11	Despatche	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period
2021-06-19 13:24:12	Dagmar	noobly: ...whcih mostly means deleting the configuration off it, and then applying that same configuration to the bridge itself
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2021-06-19 13:25:06	noobly	where is this configurtion stuff located?
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2021-06-19 13:25:14	noobly	win10 is my host right now btw
2021-06-19 13:25:24	Dagmar	Wherever you'd _normally_ configure your networking
2021-06-19 13:25:30	Dagmar	Oh then you're not our problem at all
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2021-06-19 13:28:41	noobly	i thought this would be more painless, probably easier to just dual boot tbh
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2021-06-19 13:33:06	jim	noobly, maybe, if you have the diskspace, you can just install it, and then you could probably -still- run either os as a vm guest of the other
2021-06-19 13:33:10	dostoyevsky2	I wonder how much more performance I could get out of my linux laptop with `mitigations=off'
2021-06-19 13:33:16	<--	roni_ (~roni@207.248.198.186) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 13:33:23	dostoyevsky2	It's already quite fast, though...
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2021-06-19 13:33:52	[[R]]	dostoyevsky2: 1 billion % increase
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2021-06-19 13:34:19	dostoyevsky2	[[R]]: OMG
2021-06-19 13:34:36	dostoyevsky2	I mean: Oh my god
2021-06-19 13:35:05	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-19 13:35:16	noobly	jim: yeah, maybe. win10 tends to take up an amazing amount of space. i would gladly wipe it if blizzard released an official linux version...
2021-06-19 13:35:36	jim	of which?
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2021-06-19 13:36:00	hexnewbie	dostoyevsky2: Yes, I don't like outlaw motorcycle gangs either. The noise is horrible.
2021-06-19 13:36:03	dostoyevsky2	[[R]]: Lying on the floor laughing, please
2021-06-19 13:36:10	noobly	jim: of which what?
2021-06-19 13:36:23	jim	which blizzard game?
2021-06-19 13:36:35	noobly	starcraft 2
2021-06-19 13:36:45	<--	LinusCDE (~LinusCDE@user/linuscde) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-19 13:36:50	dostoyevsky2	Can one abbreviate Domain Name System here?
2021-06-19 13:36:54	jim	would it work under wine?
2021-06-19 13:37:00	Psi-Jack	dostoyevsky2: DNS? Of course. :p
2021-06-19 13:37:11	noobly	jim: last time i tried it was more headache then it was worth
2021-06-19 13:37:20	dostoyevsky2	Psi-Jack: But isn't that against the no abbeviations rule?
2021-06-19 13:37:31	jim	oh ok
2021-06-19 13:37:39	Psi-Jack	dostoyevsky2: No, It's No SMS speak, not "do not abbreviate anything", rule.
2021-06-19 13:37:57	dostoyevsky2	Ah, so I guess I have to learn SMS speak now
2021-06-19 13:38:09	dostoyevsky2	short message s?
2021-06-19 13:39:59	Dagmar	You could always try just not being a moron.
2021-06-19 13:40:07	Dagmar	It works for some people.
2021-06-19 13:40:16	Dagmar	...at least the people who aren't on Freenode anymore
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2021-06-19 13:40:42	jim	Dagmar, no name calling, and none of that kind of discouragement
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2021-06-19 13:43:05	jim	dostoyevsky2, for technical acronyms like DNS, we don't consider those as sms-speak
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2021-06-19 13:44:00	jim	stuff like u for you, 4 for for, 2 for too, y for why
2021-06-19 13:44:09	jim	that's sms-speak
2021-06-19 13:44:25	rbh	for allocating memory in the kernel with sort of a high priority what should I use?
2021-06-19 13:44:37	jim	lots of times the abbreviation sounds the same as the word
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2021-06-19 13:44:53	Psi-Jack	rbh: Your question makes no sense.
2021-06-19 13:44:54	rbh	I'd like it to be as fast as possible without going overboard too much
2021-06-19 13:45:45	rbh	Sorry, I meant to say what function should I use. Does it make more sense now? Psi-Jack
2021-06-19 13:45:49	Psi-Jack	No.
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2021-06-19 13:45:58	Psi-Jack	There's no such thing as "priority" in terms of RAM.
2021-06-19 13:46:07	Lutin	are there people here that have internal/external records on their public DNS servers ?
2021-06-19 13:46:22	johnnyapol	there technically is memory priority in the kernel
2021-06-19 13:46:42	johnnyapol	here's the docs for kmalloc (there's also kcalloc and friends). The flags you can use are here https://www.kernel.org/doc/htmldocs/kernel-api/API-kmalloc.html
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2021-06-19 13:46:55	johnnyapol	rbh ^
2021-06-19 13:47:20	rbh	Yea I saw those johnnyapol and im not really sure which one would be ideal for me so I thought id better ask here
2021-06-19 13:47:23	dostoyevsky2	jim: Yeah, that seems intuitive... but I didn't know that this also includes idk or atm...
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2021-06-19 13:48:26	rbh	ill be allocating and freeing lots of small chunks of memory repeatedly and id like it to be as fast as possible.
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2021-06-19 13:49:03	johnnyapol	My kernel development experience was limited to a college class I did and GFP_KERNEL worked fine for me. You probably should ask in kernelnewbies over on irc.oftc.net
2021-06-19 13:49:11	rbh	I guess GFP_KERNEL | GFP_NOWAIT? if im not misinterpreting it
2021-06-19 13:49:40	rbh	I see, I guess ill just try it with GFP_KERNEL and bench it if I need to make it faster. ty johnnyapol
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2021-06-19 13:51:03	Psi-Jack	dostoyevsky2: Think of it more like this. Are you abbreviating a single word, like you, down to just u? There's common abbreviations that have been used in English words for centuries, like etc, but "u", is very young (and very lazy).
2021-06-19 13:51:09	[[R]]	just use your own allocator if you're worrieda bout it
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2021-06-19 13:53:23	lacroix	rbh: GFP_ATOMIC is high priority
2021-06-19 13:53:35	lacroix	rbh: what are you trying to do?
2021-06-19 13:53:52	greatcoof	so...dd was running transfering .iso to my flashdrive and i 'ctrl+c'd out of it will my flashdrive be broken?
2021-06-19 13:54:00	uwharrie	greatcoof: no
2021-06-19 13:54:30	jim	Psi-Jack, howbout w/ for with? isn't that one in the dictionary?
2021-06-19 13:55:04	Psi-Jack	dostoyevsky2: More so, is it an acronym of a singular word intended to phonetically sound like the same word as in the case and examples, "u" for "you", and "ur" for "your".
2021-06-19 13:55:34	rbh	lacroix: trying to patch some hacks into kvm to make memory introspection easier. the buffer is the small-ish but rapid requests from guest<->hv
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2021-06-19 13:55:44	Psi-Jack	jim: Technically, yes. As w. :)
2021-06-19 13:56:02	rascul	temp
2021-06-19 13:56:20	jim	(the problem being, some people don't hear things like ur as a rhyme for ur)
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2021-06-19 13:56:53	Psi-Jack	Merriam-Webster, however, does not include "u" as an abbreviation for "you", but does for unit, like 1u for 1 Unit.
2021-06-19 13:56:55	jim	so at least, sms-speak is not portable
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2021-06-19 13:57:09	uwharrie	welcome to the new channel, one less #, way more whinging about the rules
2021-06-19 13:57:10	rbh	I dont want to kill the guest performances to I want to keep the vmexit handling as fast as possible
2021-06-19 13:57:12	rascul	not potable either
2021-06-19 13:57:32	rbh	uwharrie: haha
2021-06-19 13:57:36	 *	[[R]] doesn't drink rascul, he's unsafe
2021-06-19 13:57:44	rascul	it's against the rules to whine about the rules
2021-06-19 13:58:01	[[R]]	the first rule of #linux, don't talk about #linux
2021-06-19 13:58:04	hodapp	A whole lot of idiom is even less portable and is much less accessible to non-native speakers.
2021-06-19 13:58:40	hodapp	However, it's definitely much easier to get on a high horse about SMS and point to that ostensible reason.
2021-06-19 13:58:53	Psi-Jack	Heck, even "LOL" is literally defined by Merriam-Webster as "laughing out loud"
2021-06-19 13:58:55	rascul	i don't have any horses :(
2021-06-19 13:59:02	hodapp	rascul: well did you try holding them?
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2021-06-19 13:59:11	rascul	i did not
2021-06-19 13:59:14	hodapp	hmmm
2021-06-19 13:59:20	hodapp	try closing the barn door
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2021-06-19 13:59:36	rascul	but i grew up in a barn and don't close doors
2021-06-19 13:59:46	hodapp	grew up or woke up?
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2021-06-19 13:59:57	rascul	can't it be both?
2021-06-19 14:00:08	hodapp	if you woke up in one then you probably have other matters to worry about
2021-06-19 14:00:26	rascul	some barns have some pretty nice living areas though
2021-06-19 14:00:45	rascul	also there's this trend lately of people turning barns into houses
2021-06-19 14:00:52	dostoyevsky2	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_language#Whole_word_or_phrase_abbreviation
2021-06-19 14:00:53	hodapp	and vice versa?
2021-06-19 14:01:04	rascul	possibly
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2021-06-19 14:01:12	hodapp	then there's tiny houses
2021-06-19 14:01:17	-->	Gooberpatrol_66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 14:01:18	hodapp	which seem to be great
2021-06-19 14:01:20	dostoyevsky2	So this as me doubting now.. they list usenet acronyms like AFAIK as SMS language
2021-06-19 14:01:25	hodapp	if your aim is to write blog posts about tiny houses
2021-06-19 14:01:30	<--	roni_ (~roni@207.248.198.186) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 14:01:31	rascul	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barndominium
2021-06-19 14:01:41	hodapp	of course that's a thing
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2021-06-19 14:01:50	rascul	tiny houses are only good for writing about, not really for living in
2021-06-19 14:01:51	kodah	Lutin: you shouldn't do that. it's called split horizon.
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2021-06-19 14:02:01	Psi-Jack	dostoyevsky2: Wikipedia. Invaluable fallable resource of bad information.
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2021-06-19 14:02:19	dostoyevsky2	Psi-Jack: I made it say that...
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2021-06-19 14:02:59	hodapp	Is there anything in particular on that page that is unsourced information that appears to be false?
2021-06-19 14:03:11	Psi-Jack	hodapp: The list of abbreviations.
2021-06-19 14:03:15	Psi-Jack	Specifically.
2021-06-19 14:03:16	kodah	dostoyevsky2: there's no point in debating it. they won't listen.
2021-06-19 14:03:22	Lutin	kodah I know that but I was wondering... also... why not.. that is the question
2021-06-19 14:03:40	[[R]]	if you're unhappy with the rules here, you're more than free to leave
2021-06-19 14:03:42	[[R]]	there, problem solved
2021-06-19 14:03:45	kodah	Lutin: without being closely managed it turns into a vector
2021-06-19 14:04:09	Lutin	kodah as in ?
2021-06-19 14:04:16	hodapp	Psi-Jack: Are you referring to the ones that have [citation needed] on them?
2021-06-19 14:04:18	Psi-Jack	Well, the "Whole word or phrase abbreviation" listing specifically.
2021-06-19 14:04:19	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.10.207) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-19 14:04:42	<--	hawk1 (~hawk@13.67.67.200) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-19 14:04:44	Psi-Jack	No. I'm talking about the entire section I just named.
2021-06-19 14:04:59	Psi-Jack	Well, most of it. :)
2021-06-19 14:05:05	hodapp	so, what in particular is false about that?
2021-06-19 14:05:11	Psi-Jack	90% of it.
2021-06-19 14:05:11	kodah	Lutin: in an ideal world internal and external records are treated accordingly but it becomes very easy to leak internal records externally, which then gives an attacker a vector to blueprint your internal services
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2021-06-19 14:05:29	hodapp	what, specifically, are they claiming as fact that is not?
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2021-06-19 14:05:48	Psi-Jack	90% of that list in "Whole word or phrase abbreviation"
2021-06-19 14:05:49	-->	damx (~damxsa@176.45.58.33) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 14:05:58	Psi-Jack	in relation to being "SMS Language"
2021-06-19 14:05:59	hodapp	That is not a claim...
2021-06-19 14:06:05	<--	damx (~damxsa@176.45.58.33) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-19 14:06:06	kodah	[[R]]: i think generally, people think #linux is a community channel, but it's not. it's a private community and not really advertised as such, so some of the obscure rules don't make sense.
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2021-06-19 14:06:26	[[R]]	kodah: it doesnt matter if you think they make sense or not... there are rules
2021-06-19 14:06:28	[[R]]	if you dont like them, leave
2021-06-19 14:06:50	rascul	quit breaking the rules!
2021-06-19 14:06:53	hodapp	if you don't like them, you can also feel free to do absolutely nothing
2021-06-19 14:06:54	kodah	[[R]]: that's not generally an option when according to libera's rules they own the linux namespace
2021-06-19 14:07:02	hodapp	these are all valid responses to not liking the rules
2021-06-19 14:07:23	hodapp	if you don't like them, you can also complain about them
2021-06-19 14:07:35	rascul	you can complain about them if you do like them, also
2021-06-19 14:07:36	hodapp	if you don't like them, the person who is whining about that complaining is *also* free to leave
2021-06-19 14:07:41	[[R]]	kodah: yes, because libera is the only irc netowrk in the world
2021-06-19 14:07:42	uwharrie	but the rules make me bristle, and when I bristle I feel the need to complain about things that can't or won't change
2021-06-19 14:07:43	rascul	but it's still breaking the rules ;)
2021-06-19 14:07:46	rascul	"Don’t discuss channel policy in the channel. Do it by PM or take it up in #linux-ops."
2021-06-19 14:08:01	 *	rascul is breaking the rules by discussing breaking the rules
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2021-06-19 14:08:13	hodapp	but I understand that some people really get their kicks out of explaining things to people as if they are in the 3rd grade
2021-06-19 14:08:13	kodah	[[R]]: sure
2021-06-19 14:08:36	[[R]]	kodah: nothing stops you from creating ##my-channel-about-linux
2021-06-19 14:08:43	rascul	hodapp i wish they would use more pictures, though
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2021-06-19 14:09:01	kodah	[[R]]: i think i explained why that doesn't really work
2021-06-19 14:09:04	rascul	i already created it
2021-06-19 14:09:05	hodapp	rascul: if you want pictures, you can LEAVE
2021-06-19 14:09:07	rascul	kodah can't now
2021-06-19 14:09:13	hodapp	rascul: (and go to Matrix where inline pictures are a thing)
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2021-06-19 14:09:25	[[R]]	kodah: did you?
2021-06-19 14:09:26	rascul	i can have inline pictures
2021-06-19 14:09:28	hodapp	actually you could stay here and also go to matrix
2021-06-19 14:09:30	kodah	[[R]]: no
2021-06-19 14:09:34	hodapp	but that sounds less decisive
2021-06-19 14:09:35	rascul	and i don't care for matrix
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2021-06-19 14:12:57	Lutin	kodah yes I know that but do you think an attacker is not smarter then that ? There is such a thing as security/obsecurity
2021-06-19 14:13:12	hodapp	security/obsecurity?
2021-06-19 14:13:27	 *	rascul hides the key under the door mat
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2021-06-19 14:13:32	kodah	Lutin: security through obscurity is generally not a great plan
2021-06-19 14:13:35	--	id is now known as \r
2021-06-19 14:13:39	hodapp	your barn door has a doormat?
2021-06-19 14:13:47	rascul	no
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2021-06-19 14:13:55	rascul	the door mat is in the middle of the firld
2021-06-19 14:13:58	rascul	*field
2021-06-19 14:14:10	hodapp	uhhh
2021-06-19 14:14:16	hodapp	is it really a doormat if there's no door?
2021-06-19 14:14:19	kodah	Lutin: and yes, indexing your DNS records is likely one of the first things someone who is targeting your infra will do to gather intel
2021-06-19 14:14:24	rascul	it says so on the tag
2021-06-19 14:14:24	Lutin	kodah no, so it doesn't matter if people know what you run... if you fail... you didn't secure it right
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2021-06-19 14:15:00	Lutin	kodah yeah they can but do you think they don't know you have internal DNS as well ?
2021-06-19 14:15:00	kodah	Lutin: that sounds great in an ideal world, but it's much more safe to assume zero trust
2021-06-19 14:15:42	kodah	Lutin: everyone has internal dns. that's an easy assumption. it's about their ability to map your internal network while remaining external.
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2021-06-19 14:15:58	kodah	Lutin: it's like being able to fly a drone over the castle before you storm it
2021-06-19 14:16:08	Lutin	koala_man yes but it's not very easy to index a-records these days
2021-06-19 14:16:20	Lutin	only if you have PTR's for everything
2021-06-19 14:16:21	kodah	Lutin: citation needed
2021-06-19 14:16:28	--	mesa is now known as mesaboogie
2021-06-19 14:17:17	Lutin	because ?
2021-06-19 14:17:24	<--	diogenese (~diogenese@diogenese.velotech.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-19 14:17:27	Lutin	you are telling things, you need to explain
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2021-06-19 14:19:29	user7	I am trying to setup a auto start for minecraft server on azure vm. this is the error. minecraft.service: Failed at step CHDIR spawning /usr/bin/java: Permission denied
2021-06-19 14:19:43	user7	when i run the service status
2021-06-19 14:20:35	[[R]]	ls -lh /usr/bin/java
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2021-06-19 14:20:41	[[R]]	also pastebin the service file
2021-06-19 14:20:57	PlayerOne	[[R]], why double []s?
2021-06-19 14:20:58	kodah	Lutin: i just need to grab the authoritative nameserver from the SOA and then query. discovery of those addresses is a thing, but not difficult once you start mapping.
2021-06-19 14:21:03	[[R]]	PlayerOne: why not?
2021-06-19 14:21:10	user7	[[R]] ty. i will
2021-06-19 14:21:48	PlayerOne	I recall you being with single []s for 10 years or so
2021-06-19 14:21:54	Lutin	kodah you can't lookup what you don't know... too many words... only ptr scanning on an internal range would work
2021-06-19 14:22:02	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-19 14:22:31	PlayerOne	If it's you, though ^^
2021-06-19 14:22:37	PlayerOne	From Freenode
2021-06-19 14:22:42	<--	TheSilentLink (~TheSilent@user/thesilentlink) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-19 14:23:11	PlayerOne	hexnewbie, thank you, but was searching for somethin gmore universal
2021-06-19 14:23:24	-->	nifl (~user@user/niflce) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 14:23:38	PlayerOne	xdotool fits, but still quite weird sometimes
2021-06-19 14:23:44	-->	TheSilentLink (~TheSilent@user/thesilentlink) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 14:23:51	user7	its only one line so here it is: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Jun 19 17:03 /usr/bin/java -> /etc/alternatives/java
2021-06-19 14:24:21	[[R]]	ans pastebin the full output from status
2021-06-19 14:24:28	user7	ok
2021-06-19 14:24:30	PlayerOne	hexnewbie, nice find, though
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2021-06-19 14:26:54	user7	https://pastebin.com/48uW88PW
2021-06-19 14:27:33	[[R]]	and the service file...
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2021-06-19 14:29:45	user7	I guess i could of started with this. here is a link to the doc:
2021-06-19 14:29:46	user7	https://askubuntu.com/questions/1198585/how-to-i-make-a-program-start-on-boot-no-gui
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2021-06-19 14:30:17	 *	[[R]] gives up
2021-06-19 14:30:44	user7	sorry buddy. im kind of a nube
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2021-06-19 14:33:05	user7	https://pastebin.com/nKzHG7kG
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2021-06-19 14:33:36	user7	thats the service file. the password have been set in the server file also. that was cut and pasted from the doc. (like i did in the vm)
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2021-06-19 14:35:37	jim	user7, if you have nc installed, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command, for example ls -CF if you run it like this: ls -CF | nc termbin.com 9999
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2021-06-19 14:38:24	user7	jim what is the apt program name and i will install
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2021-06-19 14:38:45	jim	we ask that you don't use pastebin.com, and we have reasons: pastebin.com piles craploads of javascript to the user's browser, and it's so much it's been known to crash it... other than that, pastebin has ads, and employs antiadblock strategies (that are propabably in the javascript payload also)
2021-06-19 14:39:06	jim	user7, for nc? netcat
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2021-06-19 14:39:23	GaM3r2Xtreme	anyone know if there is a way to configure vsftpd to accept a file upload as is? it seems to be changing the line endings on my files, unless it's the built in 'ftp' command.
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2021-06-19 14:40:23	jim	user7, quick test once you got nc installed: echo "hi, this came from stdout" | nc termbin.com 9999
2021-06-19 14:40:26	uwharrie	GaM3r2Xtreme: the client is typically responsible for managing that
2021-06-19 14:40:35	[[R]]	GaM3r2Xtreme: you need to transfer in binary mode
2021-06-19 14:41:07	user7	https://termbin.com/bcj1
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2021-06-19 14:41:24	GaM3r2Xtreme	alright, good to know. I'll look into how to use binary mode with the client command. thanks!
2021-06-19 14:41:53	user7	sweet it worked thats pretty cool!
2021-06-19 14:41:57	[[R]]	GaM3r2Xtreme: no sane person uses ftp anymore...
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2021-06-19 14:42:40	GaM3r2Xtreme	i guess i'm not sane then. :P it's only local usage anyways, but i might go to some http file serving setup at some point.
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2021-06-19 14:43:53	rascul	sftp is a good fit for many use cases
2021-06-19 14:44:03	[[R]]	rascul: you're a use case
2021-06-19 14:44:10	 *	rascul uses [[R]]'s case
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2021-06-19 14:44:32	user7	[[R]] any pointers. i dont mind doing some homework
2021-06-19 14:44:41	dostoyevsky2	[[R]]: ftp://ftp.redhat.com/redhat/ wants to have a word with you
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2021-06-19 14:45:39	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-19 14:47:53	GaM3r2Xtreme	isn't sftp basically ssh file transfers? ftps i think is ftp over ssl. so many different ways to send/get files...
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2021-06-19 14:48:17	rascul	yes
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2021-06-19 14:48:33	rascul	close enough, anyway
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2021-06-19 15:00:48	micrex22	rascul: https://i.imgur.com/mHOQUZK.png
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2021-06-19 15:11:33	user7	i am trying to use | nc termbin.com with multiple statements strung with && but only the last command will export. is there a another way?
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2021-06-19 15:12:06	PaulFertser	user7: ( s1; s2; s3; ) | nc ...
2021-06-19 15:12:07	uwharrie	user7: use a subshell: (cmd1 ; cmd2 ; cmd3 ) | nc
2021-06-19 15:12:19	user7	cool thanks let me try.
2021-06-19 15:12:33	user7	i need the bracket. ok
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2021-06-19 15:17:43	kfrench	user7: [[R]] should have a spare that you can use.
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2021-06-19 15:18:46	[[R]]	don't take my brackets!
2021-06-19 15:18:57	kfrench	You got too many
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2021-06-19 15:20:07	--	[[R]] is now known as [[[[R]]]]
2021-06-19 15:20:11	[[[[R]]]]	you can never have enough brackets
2021-06-19 15:20:12	kfrench	GAH!
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2021-06-19 15:22:21	user7	those brackets go to 11.
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2021-06-19 15:22:38	[[[[R]]]]	lol
2021-06-19 15:22:53	c705	[[[[R]]]]: you are in violation of bracket limits
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2021-06-19 15:23:03	c705	please remove brackets immediately
2021-06-19 15:23:09	[[[[R]]]]	you want me to strip?
2021-06-19 15:23:12	[[[[R]]]]	that'll be an extra $5
2021-06-19 15:23:35	c705	5 bucks? you're cheap
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2021-06-19 15:24:11	[[[[R]]]]	i just need a quick fix
2021-06-19 15:24:14	--	[[[[R]]]] is now known as [[R]]
2021-06-19 15:24:23	c705	of course you do honey
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2021-06-19 15:24:53	[[R]]	a nickel bag
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2021-06-19 15:25:14	kodah	til andrew lives near me
2021-06-19 15:25:36	[[R]]	andrew dice caly?
2021-06-19 15:25:47	c705	 andrew lloyd weber?
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2021-06-19 15:26:15	[[R]]	doesn't he live in england?
2021-06-19 15:26:16	kodah	andrew lee
2021-06-19 15:26:32	c705	oh prince andrew
2021-06-19 15:26:34	Bocaneri	His Royal Anus, the echt Clown Prince of Korea?
2021-06-19 15:26:42	c705	fuck that guy, let's not even talk about him
2021-06-19 15:26:50	Bocaneri	Mind the language, but I couldn't agree more.
2021-06-19 15:26:57	c705	sorry daddy
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2021-06-19 15:27:05	kodah	apparently he lives in thousand oaks
2021-06-19 15:27:09	Bocaneri	You're not too big for a birchin, son!
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2021-06-19 15:28:09	[[R]]	thats where amanda bynes is from
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2021-06-19 15:28:19	kodah	a lot of celebrities live there
2021-06-19 15:28:23	c705	lol what
2021-06-19 15:28:33	kodah	https://www.insider.com/south-korean-royals-california-mansion-photos-2020-12
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2021-06-19 15:29:56	kodah	i'll have to snap a pic before i leave socal
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2021-06-19 15:29:58	c705	no really though, that guy gets off on people talking about him. lets not fan the flame
2021-06-19 15:30:09	bernard__	flame the fan instead
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2021-06-19 15:30:42	[[R]]	kodah: are you saying he's a celebirty?
2021-06-19 15:31:10	kodah	[[R]]: no, but he has to have a lot of money to live there, not to mention well-connected
2021-06-19 15:31:32	[[R]]	who the hell needsa a house that big?
2021-06-19 15:31:33	[[R]]	thats just stupid
2021-06-19 15:31:51	kodah	yeah i can't really imagine the lifestyles of people that live in places like that
2021-06-19 15:31:51	uwharrie	not to mention how long it'd take to walk to the 7-11
2021-06-19 15:32:20	kodah	i live in < 1k sqft
2021-06-19 15:32:32	[[R]]	uwharrie: you have servants to do that for you, silly
2021-06-19 15:32:44	CommunistWolf	sq m is where it's at
2021-06-19 15:33:01	[[R]]	"People think it's cool that I'm royalty [now]," Lee told the South China Morning Post in 2018. "But I don't go around saying 'Hey, I'm a prince', I stay pretty low key."
2021-06-19 15:33:03	[[R]]	HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
2021-06-19 15:33:43	uwharrie	ah man, my burritos are always cold by the time the servants walk them back to my mansion
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2021-06-19 15:35:29	akik	is that the same andrew lee of fleenode?
2021-06-19 15:35:34	kodah	yes
2021-06-19 15:36:00	kodah	i was just surprised to learn he lives in socal
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2021-06-19 15:36:13	akik	major a-hole
2021-06-19 15:36:17	[[R]]	uwharrie: they need one of those things that pizza people have
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2021-06-19 15:42:43	otisolsen70	What is a good compression tool/algo to use when I need to transfer a big file system image (several TB) over the internet. Upstream from sender is 100mbps. Receiver downstream is 1gbps. So I want to compress the stuff lightly so that I will at least skip any 0x00 areas fast... I tried xz but it seems that the cpu ends up being the bottleneck. Would gzip -1 be better?
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2021-06-19 15:46:37	Bocaneri	otisolsen70, generally speaking, the better the compression, the slower the compressor.
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2021-06-19 15:47:00	otisolsen70	Bocaneri, so I want something lightweight. I think I will go with pigz -1. This seems rather fast..
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2021-06-19 15:47:42	immibis	gzip is usually fast enough you can use -9
2021-06-19 15:48:02	immibis	remember it's a 30 year old program. computer were much slower back then
2021-06-19 15:48:05	immibis	+s
2021-06-19 15:48:25	otisolsen70	This is a 9 year old sending cpu...
2021-06-19 15:48:33	Bocaneri	What's "lightweight" mean in this context?
2021-06-19 15:49:05	otisolsen70	Bocaneri, just that I dont want the CPU to be a bottleneck.
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2021-06-19 15:49:33	otisolsen70	Bocaneri, my mission is to keep the 100mbps uplink saturated at all times. And if there are low entropy areas of the disk, I want them lightly compressed.
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2021-06-19 15:53:17	otisolsen70	This is what I end up doing: ssh root@source 'pv /dev/sda4 -B 4M | pigz -1 | mbuffer -m 10% -q' > image.gz
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2021-06-19 15:54:50	otisolsen70	This currently keeps the disk going at almost 100 % throughput and cpu is ~70-80% currently. And bw is rather low right now. Likely due to it being in a low entropy area.
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2021-06-19 15:57:12	kodah	otisolsen70: what are you compressing?
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2021-06-19 15:59:33	kodah	otisolsen70: your initial transfer alone (assuming 7TB) will take 19.4 hours
2021-06-19 15:59:39	kodah	with a 100mbps cap
2021-06-19 16:00:14	otisolsen70	kodah, a disk image.
2021-06-19 16:00:19	otisolsen70	kodah, over the internet.
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2021-06-19 16:01:14	otisolsen70	It has already transfered tens of GB.
2021-06-19 16:01:16	rob`	neat, I hadn't heard of pigz before
2021-06-19 16:01:19	rob`	handy
2021-06-19 16:01:33	otisolsen70	rob`, yeah it is nice. There is also pbzip2
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2021-06-19 16:01:42	otisolsen70	rob`, does the same but for bzip2
2021-06-19 16:01:46	rob`	nice
2021-06-19 16:01:59	otisolsen70	rob`, although, I hardly ever use bz2
2021-06-19 16:02:14	rob`	yeh, gzip is Good Enough
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2021-06-19 16:02:35	otisolsen70	rob`, if I need stronger compression I usually just use xz or 7z
2021-06-19 16:02:45	Bocaneri	I know there are other compressors around, but I like gzip because... well... it's what I've been using forever.
2021-06-19 16:02:54	otisolsen70	Bocaneri, me too
2021-06-19 16:02:55	rob`	yeah, habit counts for a lot
2021-06-19 16:02:59	Bocaneri	7z is sexy. :)
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2021-06-19 16:03:17	otisolsen70	Bocaneri, I guess but I really do not like the CLI
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2021-06-19 16:03:50	kodah	otisolsen70: you're not going to stream updates of a disk image
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2021-06-19 16:03:58	Bocaneri	Oh. I thought I saw references to "one size fits many" GUI interfaces to many compressors.
2021-06-19 16:04:04	otisolsen70	kodah, fs is not mounted
2021-06-19 16:04:10	rob`	I wish the functionality of mbuffer would be wrapped into dd or something, it seems like it doesn't need to be a separate tool
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2021-06-19 16:04:15	kodah	otisolsen70: that doesn't matter
2021-06-19 16:04:45	kodah	otisolsen70: in order to stream updates of a disk image it'd need to be chunked, like sparsebundles
2021-06-19 16:05:06	otisolsen70	kodah, not sure what you  mean by stream updates then
2021-06-19 16:06:13	kodah	otisolsen70: if you have a 7TB file (a disk image will be treated as one big file), then you have to have a way to chunk it in order to keep it in sync efficiently
2021-06-19 16:06:41	kodah	otisolsen70: tldr: compression is the least of your worries
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2021-06-19 16:07:09	otisolsen70	kodah, what do you mean by keep it in sync?
2021-06-19 16:07:41	kodah	i'm not sure how to break this down further
2021-06-19 16:08:03	otisolsen70	kodah, I am only reading the disk image using pv. Then the output of pv I compress with pigz, then buffer with mbuffer and send via ssh. The client then redirects to a file.
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2021-06-19 16:08:34	kodah	do you know how far behind the buffer operates at over time?
2021-06-19 16:09:02	kodah	as i said, your first transfer is 19.4 hours
2021-06-19 16:09:08	otisolsen70	kodah, nope. I dont even know if I need it at all. But I have the memory to waste as the source machine is doing nothing right now.
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2021-06-19 16:10:06	kodah	otisolsen70: what problem is this disk image solving?
2021-06-19 16:10:51	otisolsen70	kodah, the reason I use compression is that there may be some huge areas of the file system that is just 0x00 or similar low entopry stuff. Other places may be jpegs or other high entropy stoff. So I just want to make sure I am not sending zeros at 100mbps when I could be  sending them basically as fast as the disk will read them if I compress them a bit.
2021-06-19 16:11:18	otisolsen70	kodah, the image is a "just in case" backup that I need in case the disk fails during some coming maintenance.
2021-06-19 16:11:41	babyface	I have weird problem. I can't play a .m3u video stream in Linux with VLC but the same video stream works with VLC in Windows and I'm using the same version of VLC in both cases.
2021-06-19 16:12:06	otisolsen70	babyface, is the source files in the playlist located on a network share or locally to the linux machine?
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2021-06-19 16:12:34	kodah	otisolsen70: what kind of files are on this disk?
2021-06-19 16:12:39	babyface	otisolsen70, it's twitch stream
2021-06-19 16:12:48	otisolsen70	babyface, dunno then
2021-06-19 16:13:13	otisolsen70	kodah, lots of random stuff. photos, programs, videos, dbs.
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2021-06-19 16:13:15	[[R]]	babyface: sounds like a question for the vlc deveelopers
2021-06-19 16:13:28	otisolsen70	babyface, there is a vlc channel
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2021-06-19 16:13:42	otisolsen70	babyface, it is called #videolan
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2021-06-19 16:14:22	kodah	otisolsen70: i would probably try to copy the data locally rather than send it somewhere. if it changes even once then your 19.4 hours of updates will start over.
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2021-06-19 16:14:52	kodah	otisolsen70: rich media (like videos and images) can be compressed and chunked. DB's not so much.
2021-06-19 16:14:52	otisolsen70	kodah, the filesystem is not mounted. It will not change.
2021-06-19 16:15:03	kodah	ah got it
2021-06-19 16:15:21	otisolsen70	:)
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2021-06-19 16:16:08	kodah	bzip2 should do what you want, but don't apply it to the disk image. apply it to the media, then push it across the wire with rsync that'll transfer files individually.
2021-06-19 16:16:49	kodah	unless your disk image supports chunking, which then by all means do that
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2021-06-19 16:18:22	otisolsen70	kodah, the image is read directly off the disk. And what I pasted above does seem to work really fine.
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2021-06-19 16:28:36	eqw	I'm getting "Kernel Panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)" in my KVM guest. Before that, my guest Ubuntu Xenial was booting without problems but then something happened. When I mount the guest's / (which is the only partition) on host system I don't see anything suspicious in /boot (though I don't know grub very well). Any suggestions ?
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2021-06-19 16:42:54	DLange	eqw: may be you changed the configuration? Or the initrd is incomplete? The kernel does not find the rootfs.
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2021-06-19 16:51:38	eqw	DLange: maybe I changed the configuration. The question is, what was the change. I think I just removed boot menu and booting from CD.
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2021-06-19 16:54:02	DLange	eqw: only you can know :)
2021-06-19 16:54:25	DLange	(if you have a backup, diff the config files. The change may be easy to spot)
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2021-06-19 16:57:34	eqw	diff doesn't show anything relevant
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2021-06-19 17:03:37	eqw	cpio: premature end of archive
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2021-06-19 17:04:00	eqw	maybe initrd.img-... is corrupted
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2021-06-19 17:05:56	eqw	I had to fsck it before
2021-06-19 17:06:52	eqw	another thing that I don't understand is why the fs was broken. I haven't had hard reboot and the data is on MD raid1
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2021-06-19 17:11:12	Psi-Jack	fsck? The initrd.img?
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2021-06-19 17:11:22	 *	[[R]] fscks
2021-06-19 17:11:30	Psi-Jack	That alone is a big no no, and you should just rebuild it, not fsck it.
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2021-06-19 17:11:54	Dagmar	No worries there.  I don't think you can fsck a copi archive with squishfs in iut
2021-06-19 17:12:03	Dagmar	That's just all kinds of crazy
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2021-06-19 17:12:58	Dagmar	s/copi/cpio
2021-06-19 17:13:06	eqw	s/I had to fsck it before/I had to fsck my guest rootfs before/
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2021-06-19 17:13:40	Dagmar	Generally you won't have to fsck a filesystem with journaling enabled unless something terrible happens
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2021-06-19 17:15:20	Dagmar	There are some other terrble thigns that can happen if one skips over certain measures, like not ever attempting to mount the guest filesystem from the outer host while it's being used
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2021-06-19 17:16:20	eqw	I think I didn't try to do this mount, but is there a way to ensure it ?
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2021-06-19 17:23:07	akik	eqw: which mount?
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2021-06-19 17:23:37	akik	trying to mount something doesn't make anything worse than they were
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2021-06-19 17:26:40	eqw	akik: "21:15:20 UTC Dagmar> There are some other terrble thigns that can happen if one skips over certain measures, like not ever attempting to mount the guest filesystem from the outer host while it's being used"
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2021-06-19 18:04:01	user7	got it. found a doc that used that mcrcom.  no env file.  kids testing it now.
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2021-06-19 18:08:20	eqw	partprobe reveals partitions even on lvm volumes(used for guest OSes). Is there a way to hide them back ?
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2021-06-19 18:09:30	[[R]]	hide?
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2021-06-19 18:10:15	eqw	I don't want host os to see partitions that are inside of LVM LVs
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2021-06-19 18:11:06	[[R]]	um...
2021-06-19 18:11:10	[[R]]	don't run it as root then
2021-06-19 18:11:10	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-19 18:11:54	akik	so many problems
2021-06-19 18:12:20	akik	waiting for the day when systemd decides /etc and / should be read-only
2021-06-19 18:12:48	eqw	[[R]]> don't run _it_ as root then  <--  don't run as root what ?
2021-06-19 18:13:03	[[R]]	whatever your running that is showing you these partitions
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2021-06-19 18:15:18	bparker	akik: if the distro abides by FHS then /etc must not be read-only
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2021-06-19 18:16:39	akik	poettering wipes his thing with standards
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2021-06-19 18:18:47	eqw	[[R]]> whatever your running that is showing you these partitions <-- this "whatever" is called OS, and it is always runs as root
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2021-06-19 18:19:16	akik	eqw: it's normal for vgdisplay to show the vg data
2021-06-19 18:19:19	 *	[[R]] gives up
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2021-06-19 18:20:20	eqw	akik: but in my case it is lsblk that shows partitions inside of LVs
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2021-06-19 18:20:46	akik	eqw: can you paste an example?
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2021-06-19 18:26:51	eqw	akik: https://termbin.com/lxfr the last line should not exist. The /dev/VG1/_xenial contains its own MBR and partition table with a single primary partition(with ext4 in it). The host os usually isn't supposed to know about that partition.
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2021-06-19 18:28:21	akik	eqw: does it show in vgdisplay -v VG1 on the host?
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2021-06-19 18:29:41	vptr	hey, i'm thinking about getting a blue-ray m-disk burner. Should I be looking out for anything to make this work correctly on linux? I wonder if anyone has an experience with burning m-disks on linux.
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2021-06-19 18:31:28	eqw	akik: of course not: vgdisplay shows LVs but it doesn't show partitions
2021-06-19 18:32:01	eqw	well, LVs and PVs
2021-06-19 18:32:06	akik	eqw: ok i don't know why lsblk shows it. i don't use lsblk
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2021-06-19 18:33:08	bparker	vptr: there is no evidence M-disc bluray lasts any longer than normal... only for DVDs
2021-06-19 18:33:25	bparker	but no nothing special is needed
2021-06-19 18:34:31	vptr	bparker: good to know, thanks. Is it just dvd+rw-tools mostly?
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2021-06-19 18:35:28	eqw	akik: lsblk shows it because the host os kernel knows about it. And host os kernel have become to know about once I typed `partprobe`
2021-06-19 18:35:50	mfiano	optical media has been dead for a long time
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2021-06-19 18:36:28	bparker	vptr: idk I just use wodim
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2021-06-19 18:37:25	mfiano	I would worry more about being able to readily access reading devices in 15 years, let alone anything close to the claimed longevity
2021-06-19 18:37:26	bparker	mfiano: not for archival
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2021-06-19 18:39:17	vptr	I'm mostly looking for archiving data. I don't think there's going to be any issue with hardware for reading the data. Look at VHS and floppy disks, you can still find hardware to read them decades later.
2021-06-19 18:39:36	mfiano	any data archival needs to be duplicated to at least 2 offsite locations every few years.
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2021-06-19 18:41:38	topoi	How'd you implement some streaming service without using proprietary protocols?
2021-06-19 18:41:40	babyface	how to I tell the terminal to output to the clipboard?
2021-06-19 18:42:34	topoi	babyface: If you go with utilities there's often xclipboard onboard?
2021-06-19 18:42:36	superkuh	| xclip -i
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2021-06-19 18:42:57	aban	IMO you can't beat LTO for archiving
2021-06-19 18:43:08	topoi	babyface: s/xclipboard/xclip/
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2021-06-19 18:43:24	topoi	thanks, superkuh! :)
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2021-06-19 18:44:02	babyface	superkuh, topoi, not sure I understand
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2021-06-19 18:45:07	topoi	you pipe to xclip?
2021-06-19 18:45:24	babyface	"bash: xclip: command not found"
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2021-06-19 18:45:50	superkuh	xclip is handy to have around. You should install it.
2021-06-19 18:45:56	topoi	then install it from your repositories?! :D
2021-06-19 18:46:13	superkuh	If you are debian based $ sudo apt install xclip
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2021-06-19 18:47:06	babyface	if I install xclip will it run as a service or only start when needed?
2021-06-19 18:47:17	superkuh	You only run it when needed.
2021-06-19 18:47:24	superkuh	It's just a little binary.
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2021-06-19 18:48:00	topoi	babyface: And as always: manpages are your friend. :3
2021-06-19 18:48:05	babyface	why is xclip necessary to install why isn't it part of the distro in my case Manjaro
2021-06-19 18:48:26	babyface	how can they not include something that basic?
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2021-06-19 18:48:43	superkuh	Arch-likes tend to be pretty minimal. And xclip is kind of an obscure utility.
2021-06-19 18:49:11	babyface	lol are calling copying text to the clipboard obscure?
2021-06-19 18:49:15	babyface	*are you
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2021-06-19 18:49:21	mfiano	Which clipboard? Linux has multiple
2021-06-19 18:49:29	superkuh	Yes. Copy text from the command line to the graphical clipboard is obscure.
2021-06-19 18:49:32	superkuh	+ing
2021-06-19 18:49:32	topoi	babyface: Ask the developers then. I don't felt ever the need of using it. You can select things wich are then in some clipboard already.
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2021-06-19 18:49:46	superkuh	I mean, normally you'd just use the GUI.
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2021-06-19 18:49:54	superkuh	Since you obviously have that if you need to copy to it's clipboard.
2021-06-19 18:50:00	 *	mlu likes the middle-click buffer
2021-06-19 18:50:10	decompyler	On my system (archbased:garuda), When I plug in a usb dev (arduino), I have to give it permissions every time I replug it. People have said to add my username to dialout. However when the /dev/ttyACM0 is initiated, it is not part of the dialout group. Any thoughts?
2021-06-19 18:50:17	mfiano	The primary selection buffer doesn't require such a tool for copying from the terminal
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2021-06-19 18:51:57	superkuh	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arduino#Accessing_serial
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2021-06-19 18:54:59	akik	decompyler: you can create an udev rule that modifies /dev/ttyACM0 permissions
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2021-06-19 18:55:27	decompyler	thanks!
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2021-06-19 18:55:53	aban	decompyler: or if the group for /dev/ttyACM0 is uucp, just add your user to that group instead
2021-06-19 18:55:56	akik	decompyler: so every time you plug it in udev makes sure the permissions are what you expect
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2021-06-19 18:56:23	decompyler	no udev creates it with no group set
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2021-06-19 18:58:20	decompyler	nevermind false alarm fixed :)
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2021-06-19 19:52:23	greatcoof	this will probaly sound very crince but i wanna meet friends intrested in computers , where can i find those
2021-06-19 19:52:45	greatcoof	s/crince/cringe
2021-06-19 19:52:56	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 19:52:57	omegatron	... ?
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2021-06-19 19:53:10	AMG	greatcoof u mean like a channel?
2021-06-19 19:53:37	Bocaneri	AMG, "you", not "u".
2021-06-19 19:53:37	greatcoof	in real life :p
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2021-06-19 19:54:07	Kyv	people that will help him move
2021-06-19 19:54:08	omegatron	try your next local university which has some computer labs ..
2021-06-19 19:54:35	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 19:55:02	greatcoof	omegatron: i guess im too young for that...
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2021-06-19 19:55:41	omegatron	?? when I was a student, I wouldn't have thrown out someone, just because he/she isn't at least 20 ..
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2021-06-19 19:56:26	omegatron	I don't mean you take courses their, just visit them .. they might give you directions or let you stay in their labs
2021-06-19 19:56:29	Bashing-om	greatcoof: Maybe (L)inux (U)ser (G)roup in your area ?
2021-06-19 19:56:36	omegatron	-their +there
2021-06-19 19:57:19	greatcoof	Bashing-om: where can i search for em :p
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2021-06-19 19:57:51	greatcoof	omegatron: wait...you can just go in...?
2021-06-19 19:58:14	Bashing-om	greatcoof: google is a good start - where are you and I see for you what I can find.
2021-06-19 19:58:30	decompyler	you had the right "their" omegatron
2021-06-19 19:58:31	blackgatonegro	greatcoof wait until the pandemic ends first
2021-06-19 19:58:34	omegatron	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_user_group        at least here in germany you wouldn't be killed on sight
2021-06-19 19:58:59	decompyler	the plandemic will never end.... people keep going along with it
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2021-06-19 19:59:10	omegatron	everyone is free to take a look and visit the people there on sporadic occasions
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2021-06-19 19:59:25	blackgatonegro	CyberCafes are no longer a thing same for computer clubs, PC mags no longer exist on dead tree paper wow I feel old - -
2021-06-19 19:59:29	Bashing-om	greatcoof: I ran a computer user's group at University - we did not exclude outsiders :D
2021-06-19 19:59:46	Bocaneri	Linux mags are around, though.
2021-06-19 20:00:04	blackgatonegro	We are in the 2020s everyone is a nerd thanks to the pandemic.
2021-06-19 20:00:23	jim	what does he want to do? and who is it?
2021-06-19 20:00:35	blackgatonegro	Over a year inside watching the screen, lack of sunlight, using tons of time online.
2021-06-19 20:00:43	omegatron	world domination, like everyone ..
2021-06-19 20:00:58	blackgatonegro	Heck people eyesight even got worse
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2021-06-19 20:01:07	decompyler	turn off the tel-lie-vision blackgatonegro
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2021-06-19 20:01:38	blackgatonegro	decompyler will do if you turn off your smartphone.
2021-06-19 20:01:45	decompyler	done
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2021-06-19 20:02:00	Bocaneri	Oh. Right. Phone. Where DID I put mine?
2021-06-19 20:02:17	blackgatonegro	Oh wait it has been off for months, may turn on my wii and play a game or something on it
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2021-06-19 20:03:38	blackgatonegro	Honesty is a CRT TV and still works, mostly used for old videogame consoles.
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2021-06-19 20:04:26	omegatron	... one shell script 42k lines, the other 19k ... I think I overdid it a little bit ...   -_-
2021-06-19 20:04:42	greatcoof	>we did not exclude outsiders :D , not every university tho
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2021-06-19 20:05:34	uplime	omegatron: that seems a little excessive D:
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2021-06-19 20:05:41	uplime	although mine is starting to breach 1000
2021-06-19 20:05:46	greatcoof	i mean not usual to see a GNUtard walking in a university with his old thinkpad
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2021-06-19 20:06:42	greatcoof	>wait until the pandemic ends first , is it flu season?
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2021-06-19 20:07:09	blackgatonegro	In news that people already knew white noise helps to sleep because it kind of sounds like the sea, if recorded 10X years ago.
2021-06-19 20:07:18	rascul	maybe it's better not to refer to people as "gnutards" though
2021-06-19 20:07:32	blackgatonegro	omegatron cut the fat!
2021-06-19 20:07:45	blackgatonegro	By that I mean in the code
2021-06-19 20:08:07	omegatron	uplime: yeah.. and If I had to be strict, it's actually .. I would say .. about 800k, but spread over many files .. on file per software package to build and install  ..  but strictly it's one large software/file
2021-06-19 20:08:14	blackgatonegro	Is better to not be rude
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2021-06-19 20:08:50	greatcoof	rascul: im refering to myself .. it's okay if i insult myself i do it all the time especially when i program in assembly :D
2021-06-19 20:08:56	omegatron	strictly speaking ..       geez, it's already 2 am here
2021-06-19 20:09:01	jim	greatcoof, yep, no name calling or discuragement.
2021-06-19 20:09:05	Bocaneri	greatcoof, how about losing the term "GNUtard"?
2021-06-19 20:09:12	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-19 20:09:23	uplime	omegatron: oh dear D:
2021-06-19 20:09:31	blackgatonegro	Just call yourself a foolish penguin
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2021-06-19 20:09:50	greatcoof	tbh i didn't have another word for it
2021-06-19 20:10:14	jim	greatcoof, I guess... but it would be better if you didn't: see, when you do, you program your brain
2021-06-19 20:10:18	Bocaneri	I'm a GNU/Linux user. :P
2021-06-19 20:10:25	blackgatonegro	no one takes foolish as an insult anymore... it has lost a lot of impact, unless is like a Victorian era TV drama.
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2021-06-19 20:10:45	omegatron	yeah, it's, beside other things/features, a package manager to bootstrap an entire distribution, solely based on bash
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2021-06-19 20:11:11	uplime	mine is just a silly way-too-overengineered irc bot
2021-06-19 20:11:22	blackgatonegro	that doesn't mean you have to bash yourself, please go to sleep.
2021-06-19 20:11:33	greatcoof	>it's already 2 am here , youre in ma timezone !
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2021-06-19 20:12:44	blackgatonegro	lack of sleep leads to bad coding. So sleeping actually saves yourm time fixing said bad coding later.
2021-06-19 20:12:56	<--	thiras (~thiras@user/thiras) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 20:13:25	omegatron	eh.. i'm used to work to 2-6am, depending on the situation ... because that's when the people in Tokyo/Shikoku AND the usa are awake ..
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2021-06-19 20:14:10	blackgatonegro	Is why time crunching can end with Cyberpunk Totally not an Alpha, well besides the fact they released the game like a year ealier.
2021-06-19 20:14:13	greatcoof	so usiversities and LUGs any other advice?
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2021-06-19 20:14:23	rascul	meetup.com
2021-06-19 20:14:33	squid1	Hello, World!
2021-06-19 20:14:37	jim	hi
2021-06-19 20:14:44	rascul	some areas have some interesting things on meetup.com
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2021-06-19 20:15:20	Kyv	interesting?
2021-06-19 20:15:21	omegatron	yes, folk high schools / adult education centers / libraries often also have clubs or similar where people with special interests meet
2021-06-19 20:15:44	blackgatonegro	Sleeping regularly literally makes you live longer.
2021-06-19 20:16:14	squid1	Come to think of it, last time I went to a public library was when I was a kid
2021-06-19 20:16:17	blackgatonegro	All those places that are closed in most of the world nowadays due to the plague?
2021-06-19 20:16:39	omegatron	thank you, but i'm 64 .. I know what I am doing ..  ( and I don't suffer from bad coding, just because of some daytime )
2021-06-19 20:16:51	blackgatonegro	Sure the USA went ALL OPEN but they may have been a tad early.
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2021-06-19 20:17:11	Bocaneri	Maybe, but we're vaccinating the out of everybody we can get our paws on.
2021-06-19 20:17:13	<--	damx (~damxsa@2001:16a2:cccc:1c00:b43b:27b3:ac1e:1da5) has quit (Quit: Quit)
2021-06-19 20:17:18	blackgatonegro	Turns out the J&J vaccine is... not very effective.
2021-06-19 20:17:48	blackgatonegro	So if you got that one you don't even have a 50% protection.
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2021-06-19 20:18:02	greatcoof	blackgatonegro: corona is SOOOO overated
2021-06-19 20:18:16	rascul	it's really not that great of a beer
2021-06-19 20:18:22	blackgatonegro	I prefer my beer to be german.
2021-06-19 20:18:25	rascul	and the commercials make no sense
2021-06-19 20:18:33	greatcoof	blackgatonegro: i got it 3 times and its fine...
2021-06-19 20:18:43	blackgatonegro	my coffee to be from brazil
2021-06-19 20:18:54	Kyv	they make more sense than Modelo commercials
2021-06-19 20:19:00	saltedegg	how about water?
2021-06-19 20:19:03	blackgatonegro	and my tea to be cheap cause is tea..
2021-06-19 20:19:16	Bocaneri	Some Polish beers are mighty fine.
2021-06-19 20:19:21	Kyv	something about a girl cop turned in her badge to become a DJ no one's heard of
2021-06-19 20:19:23	blackgatonegro	water is better boiled at least once.
2021-06-19 20:19:36	saltedegg	agree on that one
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2021-06-19 20:19:37	greatcoof	didn't even go see a doctor (exept the first time)
2021-06-19 20:19:42	Kyv	or a guy that shaves peoples heads for a living reflecting the Modelo spirit
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2021-06-19 20:19:51	rascul	boiling is just one method of treating water
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2021-06-19 20:20:09	Bocaneri	Another is just dumping a bunch of vodka into it. O:)
2021-06-19 20:20:16	rascul	a good filter setup and boiling isn't necessary
2021-06-19 20:20:20	greatcoof	rascul: bailing doesn't remove rock
2021-06-19 20:20:33	rascul	true
2021-06-19 20:20:35	Bocaneri	So set up a still.
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2021-06-19 20:20:50	greatcoof	Bocaneri: ALSO VODKA DOESNT
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2021-06-19 20:20:56	blackgatonegro	I do not take my water from rocks
2021-06-19 20:21:06	blackgatonegro	We have a river
2021-06-19 20:21:07	rascul	just get a five stage filter setup with reverse osmosis
2021-06-19 20:21:22	Bocaneri	I'll bet my still is cheaper.
2021-06-19 20:21:36	rascul	almost certainly
2021-06-19 20:21:37	greatcoof	rascul: what the fuck is a reverse osmosis
2021-06-19 20:21:43	rascul	good stuff
2021-06-19 20:21:44	Bocaneri	greatcoof, mind the language.
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2021-06-19 20:21:55	rascul	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
2021-06-19 20:22:13	rascul	fancy science stuff that makes wonderful water
2021-06-19 20:22:16	omegatron	the opposite of osmosis ...  -_-
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2021-06-19 20:22:40	greatcoof	Bocaneri: his method can filter any amount of water tho + you wont cet drunk (sorry for language)
2021-06-19 20:22:40	Skyz	XD
2021-06-19 20:23:00	rascul	you're not getting drunk from distilled water
2021-06-19 20:23:17	ZedHedTed	i had a dream that there was a power outage, and when the power came back on my tower didn't. but i knew i changed the BIOS setting to make it turn back on after power loss.
2021-06-19 20:23:18	omegatron	so you don't get from vodka..
2021-06-19 20:23:35	rascul	vodka isn't (only) distilled water
2021-06-19 20:23:41	omegatron	you are either sober or dead, if it comes to codka
2021-06-19 20:23:47	omegatron	vodka ..
2021-06-19 20:23:48	blackgatonegro	rascul yeah you just die
2021-06-19 20:24:01	Bocaneri	I don't buy my vodka from people who make it from brake fluid.
2021-06-19 20:24:10	rascul	distilled water isn't killing anyone unless you overhydrate
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2021-06-19 20:24:14	omegatron	damn, I need to adjust my desktop lamp a little bit to see my keyboard
2021-06-19 20:24:35	<--	brachamh (~brachamh@user/brachamh) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-19 20:24:37	Kyv	omegatron: what are you wearing right now?
2021-06-19 20:24:38	blackgatonegro	rascul you are not supposed to drink it
2021-06-19 20:24:38	greatcoof	rascul: is 69 liters a lot?
2021-06-19 20:24:49	rascul	greatcoof time frame matters
2021-06-19 20:24:52	rascul	blackgatonegro why not?
2021-06-19 20:24:57	kodah	rascul: charcoal filtered water ftw
2021-06-19 20:25:06	greatcoof	rascul: 420 seconds
2021-06-19 20:25:12	rascul	distilled water is literally purified water
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2021-06-19 20:25:15	blackgatonegro	Because is distilled water
2021-06-19 20:25:33	greatcoof	distilled water is water
2021-06-19 20:25:34	Bocaneri	blackgatonegro, are  you honestly this ignorant?
2021-06-19 20:25:55	omegatron	Kyv: why? a plain sport shirt and some shorts ..
2021-06-19 20:25:57	blackgatonegro	There may be a translation error
2021-06-19 20:26:06	Bocaneri	There may be. What's your native language?
2021-06-19 20:26:14	rascul	kodah yep charcoal filters are good and should be in any multi filter setup
2021-06-19 20:26:31	<--	Lutin (~Lutin@user/lutin) has quit (Quit: Lutin)
2021-06-19 20:26:58	kodah	i want to say i got taught small rocks + charcoal, maybe sand too
2021-06-19 20:27:01	Kyv	omegatron: you mentioned the lamp and I needed a few other details
2021-06-19 20:27:06	rascul	it can remove unwanted smells and tastes
2021-06-19 20:27:10	topoi	A question regarding ssh: should'n listen "-R 127.0.0.1:8081:127.0.0.1:8081" only on localhost because it is listening on 0.0.0.0?
2021-06-19 20:27:18	rascul	it's supposed to be activated charcoal but i don't know what the activation entails
2021-06-19 20:27:28	uplime	topoi: 0.0.0.0 is all interfaces
2021-06-19 20:28:15	Kyv	It sounds like some people need to step away from their docker containers and learn about potable water.
2021-06-19 20:28:24	blackgatonegro	Yeah wrong word; I was refering to... whatever you call that water they use to threat wounds.
2021-06-19 20:28:47	rascul	there's a special water for treating wounds?
2021-06-19 20:29:00	ZedHedTed	water that threats wounds...
2021-06-19 20:29:00	Skyz	Linux is a complete OS
2021-06-19 20:29:03	omegatron	Kav: it has more to do with the fact that I'm setting in front of a new machine for a week now, which involved saying goodbye to my five monitor setup and replace it with a 3 monitor setup, which involves a 32" 4k in the center and two of the old 2k and its sides .. and they are blocking the lamp's light too much - but I fixed it now
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2021-06-19 20:29:25	Shaun	hydrogen peroxide is the only thing I can think of that fits that description.  h2o2 might still be a variant on water in some languages
2021-06-19 20:29:26	<--	brachamh_ (~brachamh@user/brachamh) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-19 20:29:27	omegatron	-setting +sitting
2021-06-19 20:29:29	ZedHedTed	"ay listen, if you don't heal up nice & fast, me & my buddies is gonna waterbomb yous guys, capice?"
2021-06-19 20:29:32	Bocaneri	To "threat" wounds?
2021-06-19 20:29:32	greatcoof	small rocks and sand aren't a problem
2021-06-19 20:29:33	topoi	uplime: Yes, I know. I thought I defined 127.0.0.1 and with that the lo interface only?
2021-06-19 20:29:37	Kyv	I think hes thinking about Indiana Jones again.
2021-06-19 20:29:45	greatcoof	you can just swallow em
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2021-06-19 20:29:49	uplime	topoi: I'm not sure I got your question then
2021-06-19 20:30:08	Bocaneri	Hydrogen peroxide, if that's what you're talking about, is not water and is not produced from water through distillation.
2021-06-19 20:30:14	blackgatonegro	rascul to wash open wounds instead of alcohol.
2021-06-19 20:30:31	rascul	blackgatonegro i just use whatever clean water i have on hand
2021-06-19 20:30:45	Bocaneri	blackgatonegro, yeah, hydrogen peroxide.
2021-06-19 20:31:02	blackgatonegro	Ah that one, is transparent?
2021-06-19 20:31:09	rascul	hydrogen peroxide can work though
2021-06-19 20:31:15	Bocaneri	blackgatonegro, yes.
2021-06-19 20:31:27	blackgatonegro	Ah yeah that one.
2021-06-19 20:31:37	rascul	best to not be drinking hydrogen peroxide much
2021-06-19 20:31:40	Bocaneri	Yeah, no, don't drink it. BAD stuff to drink.
2021-06-19 20:32:21	Shaun	they generally recommend against it for wounds these days too.  it does sterliise, but it also inhibits healing because it kills fresh cells
2021-06-19 20:32:29	Kyv	Hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer. It's corrosive to skin.
2021-06-19 20:32:35	Kyv	It's the opposite of healing.
2021-06-19 20:32:47	ZedHedTed	what about IPA? that should be asafe to drink, right?
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2021-06-19 20:33:24	topoi	uplime: Maybe I have some misconception. If I listen on 127.0.0.1 it should not listen on 0.0.0.0 then? So "ssh -R 127.0.0.1:12345:127.0.0.1:12345" should listen on 127.0.0.1 only?
2021-06-19 20:33:33	Kyv	As long as you're a hipster doofus or an Abiword afficionado
2021-06-19 20:33:53	blackgatonegro	There was also the "Real Water""brand scandal, alkalized water is bad yo.
2021-06-19 20:34:20	blackgatonegro	Abiword only survives in Linux anyway.
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2021-06-19 20:34:55	int21h	Hello, how do you change the default DUID that gets sent to your gateway? For NetworkManager?
2021-06-19 20:35:11	greatcoof	>best to not be drinking hydrogen peroxide much , why its just water and oxygen right?
2021-06-19 20:35:16	Kyv	People just dont use real water right.
2021-06-19 20:35:18	uplime	topoi: that's just the bind interface of the specific tunnel I believe
2021-06-19 20:35:24	Kyv	You're supposed to activate your almonds in it.
2021-06-19 20:35:27	blackgatonegro	is also oxide
2021-06-19 20:35:37	greatcoof	if i drink it i wouldn't need to breath
2021-06-19 20:35:43	rascul	topoi "If I listen on 127.0.0.1 it should not listen on 0.0.0.0 then?" correct
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2021-06-19 20:35:46	greatcoof	since it has oxygen
2021-06-19 20:35:47	blackgatonegro	per oxide
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2021-06-19 20:36:28	blackgatonegro	https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/technician-for-water-co-linked-to-liver-failure-says-his-dog-got-liver-illness/
2021-06-19 20:36:39	Shaun	“just an extra oxygen” is pretty significant.  it’s the same difference between hydrogen being explosive or being water
2021-06-19 20:36:46	topoi	uplime: is there a difference between ssh's "bind interface" and the usually bind on an interface? I'm confused really.
2021-06-19 20:36:46	blackgatonegro	So this guy tested the water on his dog first?
2021-06-19 20:37:03	topoi	rascul: the same with ssh?
2021-06-19 20:37:27	Kyv	He probably really loves his dog and gives him "human water" like himself.
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2021-06-19 20:37:30	omegatron	water isn't just H2O, but also OH (Hydroxid) and H3O+ (Oxonium) for a short time .. (not all of it at the same time of course)
2021-06-19 20:37:36	Kyv	Not that nasty stuff that comes from the TAP.
2021-06-19 20:37:43	rascul	if ssh binds only to 127.0.0.1 then it will not be accepting connections on other ip address
2021-06-19 20:38:13	Kyv	I know people who give their pets only bottled water.
2021-06-19 20:38:14	int21h	I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but even if you somehow manage to bind ssh to 0.0.0.0, your router will probably drop any connection from outside unless you have appropriate port forwarding rules in place...
2021-06-19 20:38:15	Kyv	ponderous stuff
2021-06-19 20:38:26	omegatron	Kyv: you still have to explain, why it's important what I wear right now?
2021-06-19 20:38:28	greatcoof	>People just dont use real water right , jokes aside yeah ...I was in a health group and some people would ask for (alternatives for water) because they are too much of a consoomer to drink it @Kyv
2021-06-19 20:38:40	blackgatonegro	I know people who feed thrir dogs better that they eat themselves
2021-06-19 20:38:51	blackgatonegro	They basically became their dogs chefs
2021-06-19 20:38:56	Kyv	Yeah health groups will kill ya
2021-06-19 20:39:24	greatcoof	blackgatonegro: those ppl will go straight to heaven
2021-06-19 20:39:37	Kyv	omegatron: why is it important the angle of your desktop lamp?
2021-06-19 20:39:37	int21h	And the port forwarding will only work if you are _NOT_ behind a typical CG-NAT setup from your ISP
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2021-06-19 20:39:43	blackgatonegro	greatcoof I had a video clip for that, can't find ir; basically it said beer
2021-06-19 20:39:44	Kyv	at least give me the liberty of painting a picture
2021-06-19 20:39:48	topoi	rascul: Well, I did "ssh -N -R 127.0.0.1:1234:127.0.0.1:1234 $HOST" and on $HOST it is listening on 0.0.0.0:8081 anyway.. :/
2021-06-19 20:40:13	rascul	topoi nothing about that ssh command has anything to do with 0.0.0.0:8081
2021-06-19 20:40:28	omegatron	Kyv: not the angle, but its position.. it was too much behind the "new" monitor
2021-06-19 20:40:31	greatcoof	topoi: why you talk about tech , talk about water filtration with us
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2021-06-19 20:40:47	blackgatonegro	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E3bPU0g8SA
2021-06-19 20:41:12	topoi	greatcoof: Why is that?
2021-06-19 20:41:15	omegatron	the "old" monitor was way more to the left, because no large 4k monitor in the center ..
2021-06-19 20:41:17	greatcoof	topoi: that's the true purpose of this channel and for GNU/Linux
2021-06-19 20:41:31	int21h	rascul, topoi, I believe you guys are trying to setup a SSH port forward setup? I don't see why else you would use the "-R" switch?
2021-06-19 20:41:48	greatcoof	topoi: that's the true purpose of life
2021-06-19 20:41:52	int21h	I mean the remote port forwarding stuff
2021-06-19 20:42:02	rascul	i'm not familiar with ssh -R though
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2021-06-19 20:42:04	blackgatonegro	bye bye dinner
2021-06-19 20:42:05	topoi	Yes, int21h and maybe I've some misconception about port bindings.
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2021-06-19 20:42:20	omegatron	topoi: you want to know the magic, why we can work AND talk here?  https://xkcd.com/303/
2021-06-19 20:42:24	greatcoof	topoi: everything else is a cover so they dont catch us
2021-06-19 20:42:33	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-19 20:43:02	osh	does anyone else here remake their used brita filters with fresh activated charcoal and water softener beads
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2021-06-19 20:43:17	greatcoof	topoi: GOTTA TALK ABOUT WATER FILTERRRRRS !!!!!
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2021-06-19 20:43:45	Kyv	greatcoof: dont stomp on his question, come on
2021-06-19 20:43:48	Kyv	thats too much
2021-06-19 20:44:02	topoi	You speak in great tongues, friend. Should I be more metaphorical?
2021-06-19 20:44:47	greatcoof	oh... that was a joke ...sorry if im being annoying :p @topoi
2021-06-19 20:45:13	greatcoof	that doesn't mean ill stop being annoying...
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2021-06-19 20:45:24	greatcoof	just sorry about it..
2021-06-19 20:45:31	int21h	Did rascul change the sshd_config to listen to only 127.0.0.1? Because by default i think SSH listens on 0.0.0.0? Still I don't know what they're tying to achieve by listening on 127.0.0.1 and setting up a remote port forward?
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2021-06-19 20:46:11	Dagmar	Nothing useful
2021-06-19 20:46:13	int21h	Because listening on 127.0.0.1 for SSH is useless
2021-06-19 20:46:18	topoi	greatcoof: There are sometimes some language barrier your amusing first have to vanquish like trough.. walter filters..?
2021-06-19 20:46:35	Dagmar	Well, it'll listen on 127.0.0.1 when you're doing X tunneling, but it won't be on port 22
2021-06-19 20:46:45	rascul	int21h you're confusing many things
2021-06-19 20:46:53	int21h	yeah, then you'd have to specify a port yourself, right?
2021-06-19 20:46:59	int21h	for the tunnel
2021-06-19 20:47:16	int21h	Sorry, rascul. I didn't get what you're trying to achieve.
2021-06-19 20:47:26	rascul	i'm not, and you missed most of the conversation
2021-06-19 20:47:44	Kyv	rascul doesnt try to achieve
2021-06-19 20:47:53	topoi	int21h: Why useless? I could have a local server on port 12345 that is private on the remote host as well.
2021-06-19 20:47:55	rascul	i was attempting to help someone else figure out ssh stuff
2021-06-19 20:48:11	greatcoof	topoi: languages are overrated , because there is one language the whole world understand...
2021-06-19 20:48:18	int21h	topoi: I meant for SSH.
2021-06-19 20:48:21	topoi	..which I'm very grateful of, btw. rascul. :)
2021-06-19 20:48:43	int21h	oh ok topoi, I get it now
2021-06-19 20:48:46	greatcoof	topoi: yet we dont use it day to day
2021-06-19 20:48:56	topoi	greatcoof: I think the language you are refering is defined by profession?
2021-06-19 20:49:05	Dagmar	topoi: Because if you are just connecting to 127.0.0.1 for ssh to connect you to somewhere _else_ using the ssh protocol, you could just as easily make that connection directly
2021-06-19 20:49:57	rascul	topoi Dagmar probably knows better what you want, perhaps you could ask your question again for the people who weren't around originally
2021-06-19 20:50:02	Dagmar	With port 8081 in the picture, what you probably want to use is stunnel
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2021-06-19 20:50:53	greatcoof	topoi: no its a string of As and the way you pronounce them can mean an emotion
2021-06-19 20:51:14	int21h	êêê
2021-06-19 20:51:15	topoi	Dagmar: port 8081 was arbitrary. I wanted to use some Proxypass with apache but not have my ssh command expose on 0.0.0.0
2021-06-19 20:51:37	rascul	proxypass and ssh? what are you really trying to do?
2021-06-19 20:51:55	Dagmar	Yeah that's a bit odd to say the least
2021-06-19 20:52:21	topoi	greatcoof: I'd vote for the language we try to revolve with science.
2021-06-19 20:52:37	greatcoof	topoi: for example , the A's you say when your in paun is diffrent from the ones whet youre moaning , and no one confuses them
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2021-06-19 20:52:58	Dagmar	If you're just doing a plain ssh tunnel so you can connect your browser to a local port and have it tunneled to some other webserver elsewhere, that doesn't involve your local _server_ _at all_
2021-06-19 20:53:08	Dagmar	Zero reason for it to bind to 0.0.0.0
2021-06-19 20:53:12	greatcoof	topoi: soynce is very fragile
2021-06-19 20:53:28	greatcoof	topoi: math on the other hand...
2021-06-19 20:53:42	ornxka	does pipewire actually work
2021-06-19 20:53:47	topoi	greatcoof: ..is eternal. Conceptually.
2021-06-19 20:53:58	rascul	ornxka i suspect so, a number of people seem to be using it
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2021-06-19 20:54:17	greatcoof	topoi: nope ...also wouldn't work its a human-made system
2021-06-19 20:54:43	greatcoof	topoi: explains the real word...but is heman-made
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2021-06-19 20:55:11	greatcoof	topoi: it's like saying chess is eternal
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2021-06-19 20:55:42	topoi	greatcoof: this is what I said. through semantical water filters. i'm platonist. speak no further.
2021-06-19 20:56:33	greatcoof	topoi: and if youre a prefuctionist math isn't complete , consistant or decidable
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2021-06-19 20:56:55	greatcoof	platonist?
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2021-06-19 20:58:45	neshpion	whatever goering is*
2021-06-19 20:58:48	neshpion	(sp?)
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2021-06-19 21:00:54	topoi	Dagmar: You concluded rightly. When (A) tunnels a local port (with -R) to (B), why shouldn't (A) "involve ... _at all_"?
2021-06-19 21:01:12	topoi	Can you elaborate on that, neshpion?
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2021-06-19 21:02:00	Dagmar	topoi: Because ssh doesn't need to connect to a server locally just to go connect to some other server.
2021-06-19 21:02:02	neshpion	topoi: something something goering incompleteness theorem, something something vsauce michael here
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2021-06-19 21:02:39	omegatron	.. sry, I was afk - had to catch and throw out some large spider ..  what did I miss?
2021-06-19 21:02:44	Dagmar	topoi: The sane way is to establish an ssh session directly to the other server.  Your ssh process can happily open a local socket on _your_ machine, and make it come out the other side of that ssh session to connect to the port on the remote end
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2021-06-19 21:02:56	Dagmar	I've got like, 250 of those going on this machine right now
2021-06-19 21:03:00	Dagmar	Not an exaggeration
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2021-06-19 21:03:27	Dagmar	I use them to connect to stuff at the office
2021-06-19 21:03:40	neshpion	or did i completely botch the guy's name? i think i did
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2021-06-19 21:03:55	Dagmar	My bookmarks file in that instance is a slew of https://localhost:portnumbers
2021-06-19 21:04:15	neshpion	i did; Gödel's incompleteness theorem
2021-06-19 21:04:19	neshpion	not Göring
2021-06-19 21:04:30	Kyv	gershgorin?
2021-06-19 21:04:32	topoi	goering, goedel.. all the same? neshpion
2021-06-19 21:04:45	neshpion	they all look the same to me
2021-06-19 21:04:54	topoi	Uff..
2021-06-19 21:05:26	omegatron	250 ssh sessions .. is some number .. I try to limit myself to not more than 30
2021-06-19 21:05:36	topoi	neshpion: from an anthropological standpoint I guess?
2021-06-19 21:05:41	rascul	i try to limit myself to not more than i need
2021-06-19 21:05:51	rascul	plus maybe a couple that i want but don't need
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2021-06-19 21:05:58	omegatron	ah yes, 30 is the usual limit of what I need ..  -_-
2021-06-19 21:06:06	omegatron	(upper limit)
2021-06-19 21:06:09	rascul	currently i'm up to zero
2021-06-19 21:06:25	neshpion	topoi: in this case, more of a "they start with a G and the funny O that looks like a surprised face" standpoint
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2021-06-19 21:07:06	rascul	generally my ssh tunnels and stuff don't live long, either i need them only for a short time or it's temporary until i get wireguard setup
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2021-06-19 21:08:31	[[R]]	rascul: clandestine ssh tunnels?
2021-06-19 21:08:44	rascul	super clandestine
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2021-06-19 21:08:53	edlou	greetings, please any stalonetray alternatives for a polybar setup?
2021-06-19 21:08:59	neshpion	tom clancy's ssh tunnel™
2021-06-19 21:09:03	rascul	what is polybar?
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2021-06-19 21:09:08	topoi	Which ssh options do you use then to accomplish forwarding from a non-public host (A) to server (B)? I though one has to use "-R"?
2021-06-19 21:09:18	neshpion	rascul: a statusbar, like for tiling window managers
2021-06-19 21:09:42	rascul	oh, that doesn't seem like something i would know anything about
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2021-06-19 21:10:04	topoi	^ Dagmar
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2021-06-19 21:10:50	rascul	blackbox has a toolbar but i disable, that's probably the closest i've ever gotten to a polybar
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2021-06-19 21:12:49	Kyv	when a good man sees a bar he disables it
2021-06-19 21:12:50	topoi	Dagmar: So the effect I want to accomplish on (B) is to listen on 127.0.0.1:1234 to tunnel to some client (A) that is NATed; which is why I used "-R"; which is why I was confused it was listening on 0.0.0.0.
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2021-06-19 21:13:01	rascul	Kyv only if it has tools though
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2021-06-19 21:14:53	Dagmar	topoi: Yeah typically you do that with the ssh client, not the daemon, so it's not going to bind to 0.0.0.0 for anything but the _outgoing_ connection socket, which is *ahem* not going to accept connections from outsiders
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2021-06-19 21:15:26	Dagmar	topoi: You can _force_ it to bind to a specific interface, but binding to 127.0.0.1 for an *outgoing* connection is a non-starter
2021-06-19 21:15:49	Dagmar	You'd be lucky if your own first-hop router doesn't throw those packets in the trash
2021-06-19 21:16:17	rascul	remote clients are expected to connected to 127.0.0.1? that's not going to work
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2021-06-19 21:16:29	Dagmar	rascul: Connecting _from_
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2021-06-19 21:16:33	rascul	oh
2021-06-19 21:16:42	rascul	from 127.0.0.1 to what?
2021-06-19 21:16:43	Dagmar	I just finally realized he's been seeing the client connection in the socket list
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2021-06-19 21:17:21	 *	[[R]] remotely connects to rascul 
2021-06-19 21:17:31	neshpion	l-lewd
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2021-06-19 21:23:16	omegatron	I see the running joke with the "[R]" user, impersonating RMS has also been transferred to libera !?  =)
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2021-06-19 21:24:41	Dagmar	No, [[R]] is just [R}.
2021-06-19 21:24:42	<--	RougeR (~RougeR@user/rouger) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-19 21:24:50	Dagmar	He's a known quantity.  Nothing to get excited about
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2021-06-19 21:26:35	omegatron	but .. is it the same (human) as it was on freenode ?
2021-06-19 21:26:40	Dagmar	Yes.
2021-06-19 21:26:51	Dagmar	It's the [R] we know and "love".
2021-06-19 21:26:54	omegatron	i see
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2021-06-19 21:27:01	Sapphirus	"love" haha
2021-06-19 21:27:22	Dagmar	Yeah I figured 'love' would be kind of a strong word for a passing acquaintance
2021-06-19 21:27:34	Dagmar	He ain't gon' bite nobody
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2021-06-19 21:27:43	Dagmar	We can probably all agree on that.
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2021-06-19 21:38:30	Bocaneri	He might be a rocky lil' SOB, but he's OUR little box of rocks.
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2021-06-19 21:39:34	[[R]]	rocky, rocky II, rocky III, rocky IV, or rocky V?
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2021-06-19 21:40:56	rascul	[[R]] is the [R] we know and love, [R] is an imposter
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2021-06-19 21:43:21	omegatron	I have to admit, I have never seen any of the Rocky movies - not a fan of "sport drama" movies
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2021-06-19 21:44:07	 *	rascul rocks the movie
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2021-06-19 21:44:49	[[R]]	as long as you don't rock the boat
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2021-06-19 21:45:07	 *	rascul throws rocks at [[R]]'s boat
2021-06-19 21:45:18	[[R]]	as the song goes, DONT ROCK THE BOAT
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2021-06-19 21:45:45	Kyv	Rocky: Demolition Man was on tv the other day
2021-06-19 21:45:52	Dagmar	I believe there's also an admonition against tipping the boat over that must be respected.
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2021-06-19 21:46:13	neshpion	i've seen all the rockys and i can't remember further than the fact that he fought the black guy, and then the big russian guy killed the black guy who was his friend and then he fought the russian guy, and then the old guy died
2021-06-19 21:46:31	neshpion	and he did a crane kick at some point
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2021-06-19 21:46:40	neshpion	wax on, double coat, 88 miles per hour
2021-06-19 21:46:52	neshpion	but then the fire nation attacked
2021-06-19 21:46:53	[[R]]	i thought wax on was karate kid
2021-06-19 21:47:06	Dagmar	...and he won the Korean war.
2021-06-19 21:47:11	johnnyapol	theyre joking
2021-06-19 21:47:17	Dagmar	hehe
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2021-06-19 21:47:32	johnnyapol	in that little blurb they made reference to rocky, karate kid, back to the future, avatar the last airbender, and probably one other one
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2021-06-19 21:47:35	rascul	neshpion there's two more rocky movies called creed
2021-06-19 21:47:39	Kyv	Yeah he was running up that big flight of stairs toward the clock tower
2021-06-19 21:47:44	[[R]]	back to the future
2021-06-19 21:47:44	[[R]]	?
2021-06-19 21:47:56	[[R]]	oh, 88
2021-06-19 21:48:13	Dagmar	First Blood, and it deliberately wasn't even the Korean war.
2021-06-19 21:48:53	neshpion	"do or do not, their is no spoon"
2021-06-19 21:48:56	[[R]]	i've gone over 88 in my car
2021-06-19 21:49:02	[[R]]	it does not travel through time
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2021-06-19 21:49:08	dieggsy	is signal desktop ludicrously gigantic for anyone else on a 2k display
2021-06-19 21:49:11	neshpion	[[R]]: yes it does, 1 second per second
2021-06-19 21:49:16	Dagmar	That's becasue you lack an inter-occitor
2021-06-19 21:49:25	[[R]]	neshpion: heavy
2021-06-19 21:49:31	Dagmar	You should have opted-in for that accessory when you bought it, man.
2021-06-19 21:49:32	neshpion	...metal!
2021-06-19 21:49:36	 *	neshpion air guitars
2021-06-19 21:49:40	Dagmar	THey're a lot harder to install as an after-market component.
2021-06-19 21:50:43	rascul	you can get one on your tesla but it's not advertised
2021-06-19 21:51:15	rascul	and if you use it you lose your warranty and they disable autopilot
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2021-06-19 21:52:48	neshpion	isn't there a github repo that reactivates warranty if you accidentally disable yours?
2021-06-19 21:53:51	rascul	maybe but then your car will drive into parked police cars, so use it at your own risk
2021-06-19 21:54:07	neshpion	well they shouldn't be parked in my spaces
2021-06-19 21:54:20	[[R]]	if you miss a payment on a tesla
2021-06-19 21:54:24	[[R]]	it drives itself back to the hq
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2021-06-19 21:54:56	neshpion	iTesla
2021-06-19 21:55:11	Kyv	does it mope along back
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2021-06-19 21:55:19	Kyv	or does it take pedestrians out on its way
2021-06-19 21:55:34	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-19 22:10:33	onelegend	Tesla
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2021-06-19 22:11:45	[[R]]	not only does tesla use linux
2021-06-19 22:11:46	[[R]]	they use buildroot
2021-06-19 22:11:49	onelegend	ooooh
2021-06-19 22:11:52	onelegend	yesssss
2021-06-19 22:12:58	onelegend	I love buildroot
2021-06-19 22:13:06	Samizdat	Tesla drives itself back b/c of missed payment!  Best laugh all day.
2021-06-19 22:13:38	[[R]]	as you should
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2021-06-19 22:15:28	FuriousGeorge	i'm no guru, but i've been using a lot of linux over many years, and i find it strange there is no better way to solve "device or resource busy" when dealing with media
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2021-06-19 22:15:47	FuriousGeorge	fuser, lsof, etc often don't work
2021-06-19 22:15:52	spyroboy	I mean, do you understand what that means?
2021-06-19 22:16:10	[[R]]	FuriousGeorge: what do you mean "when dealing with media"
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2021-06-19 22:16:16	spyroboy	how are you currently 'solving' a device that is currently busy?
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2021-06-19 22:17:22	FuriousGeorge	[[R]]:  i tend to see it a lot mounting and unmounting disks, formatting...  right now i can't mk.xfs on one of two disks, and can't find any process or bash shell that would be using them
2021-06-19 22:17:23	johnnyapol	ive had trouble with removable media on windows too and in my experience its a userspace issue. all it takes is one application with open files on it to prevent ejection
2021-06-19 22:17:47	[[R]]	FuriousGeorge: what command are you running
2021-06-19 22:17:48	Khaytsus	[[R]] has ejection issues.. or..  wait, what is it
2021-06-19 22:18:30	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, you're absolutely sure that lsof doesn't reveal any processes currently using those disks or devices?
2021-06-19 22:18:34	[[R]]	Khaytsus: election?
2021-06-19 22:18:44	FuriousGeorge	[[R]]:  in this case i'm trying mkfs.xfs /dev/disk
2021-06-19 22:18:52	[[R]]	FuriousGeorge: well /dev/disk isn't valid... so...
2021-06-19 22:19:00	FuriousGeorge	also fdisk will not delete or create parttions....  /dev/sdb1
2021-06-19 22:19:21	johnnyapol	is an existing partition mounted?
2021-06-19 22:19:25	[[R]]	reboot after you've used fdisk
2021-06-19 22:19:26	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  interestingly, lsof did show a mount process at one point, which i killed
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2021-06-19 22:19:36	spyroboy	are you sure you killed it?
2021-06-19 22:19:47	FuriousGeorge	johnnyapol:  no i checked that, and neither is it the working directory of any bash shell
2021-06-19 22:19:47	spyroboy	it's not in D or Z state?
2021-06-19 22:19:52	[[R]]	fdisk doesnt "not delete"
2021-06-19 22:19:57	[[R]]	it doesnt care it will do wahtever you tell it
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2021-06-19 22:20:03	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i busted out the -9 stick
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2021-06-19 22:20:17	spyroboy	-9 doesn't always work. especially in cases where I/O is involved, FuriousGeorge
2021-06-19 22:20:19	Dagmar	This is true.
2021-06-19 22:20:26	spyroboy	are you sure that the process is gone?
2021-06-19 22:20:33	Dagmar	Fdisk will merrily let you do whatever you want to a partition table, even while it's in use.
2021-06-19 22:20:40	FuriousGeorge	[[R]]:  i meant to say i cannot use the 'd' button in fdisk to do whatever it does to the partition, and then write that change to the disk
2021-06-19 22:20:53	[[R]]	what do you mean you "cant"
2021-06-19 22:20:58	Dagmar	If you don't see the new /dev/sd# devices appearing, it's because you didn't run partprobe to tell the kernel to rescan the device
2021-06-19 22:21:10	[[R]]	fidks doesnt say no
2021-06-19 22:21:10	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Yes you can
2021-06-19 22:21:14	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  let me make sure.   [[R]]:  i mean that it says device or resource busy, changes will not take effect untilr eboot
2021-06-19 22:21:21	[[R]]	ok, so reboot
2021-06-19 22:21:26	Dagmar	You don't need to reboot.
2021-06-19 22:21:37	rascul	partprobe it
2021-06-19 22:21:41	FuriousGeorge	[[R]]:  normally i would, but i ran ./a_long_process three times concurrently and don't want to start over
2021-06-19 22:21:52	[[R]]	then i guess you wait until you're done
2021-06-19 22:21:57	spyroboy	well, no. don't reboot. I think that's FuriousGeorge's entire concern. he doesn't want to have to reboot to 'solve' a busy device problem.
2021-06-19 22:22:06	Dagmar	You run `partprobe /dev/sdb` or whatever (or kpartx) to tell the kernel to re-examine the partition table.
2021-06-19 22:22:06	Dagmar	Done.
2021-06-19 22:22:17	[[R]]	well if hes' randomly kill -9'ing things
2021-06-19 22:22:17	FuriousGeorge	interestingly as well, this disk was part of and md set that i stopped, and proceeded to repartition and format both disks
2021-06-19 22:22:26	Dagmar	Just DO NOT do that with a partition you are using.  MAYHEM will result.
2021-06-19 22:22:36	spyroboy	I'm fairly confident that the process holding onto the device is still there.
2021-06-19 22:23:34	FuriousGeorge	# ps ax|grep mount
2021-06-19 22:23:35	FuriousGeorge	24508 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep mount
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2021-06-19 22:23:48	spyroboy	use lsof.
2021-06-19 22:23:56	FuriousGeorge	no result, that's the first thing i did
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2021-06-19 22:24:00	spyroboy	you have no idea what process might be using it.
2021-06-19 22:24:09	FuriousGeorge	sdb or sdb1
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2021-06-19 22:24:32	spyroboy	either? both? if you exclude the parameter, it should show you everything in use.
2021-06-19 22:25:00	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  no clue...  i'm runnig ./some_long_process which will eventually write to the disk, but that hasn't happened yet, and those processes had no effect on the other disk
2021-06-19 22:25:17	FuriousGeorge	nor did they stop me from stopping the md array, chainging the disk to gpt partition, etc
2021-06-19 22:25:35	FuriousGeorge	just when i got to the format part, it said "mount" was still using one.  i killed that mount
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2021-06-19 22:26:41	FuriousGeorge	i had problems unmounting, for the same reason, and used -l
2021-06-19 22:26:44	FuriousGeorge	lazily
2021-06-19 22:26:50	FuriousGeorge	idk if that is related
2021-06-19 22:26:59	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-19 22:27:05	Dagmar	Now that's just crazy.  The only thing that can happen from formatting an in-use partition is NIGHTMARISH FILESYSTEM CORRUPTION
2021-06-19 22:27:50	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  if i cared what was on the fs at that point it would be a problem.  my intention is to blank the disks
2021-06-19 22:28:03	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, what's the pid of ./some_long_process?
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2021-06-19 22:30:17	spyroboy	setting aside for the moment that the way you're going about running your software and your system is like taking a shotgun to a daycare, I think the goal here is to figure out what exactly the problem is
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2021-06-19 22:30:21	Dagmar	So umount them and zero the thing
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2021-06-19 22:30:30	spyroboy	just because he didn't do it right the first time doesn't seem we can't figure out why his system is reporting that.
2021-06-19 22:30:44	[[R]]	kill -9 random things
2021-06-19 22:30:46	spyroboy	mean*
2021-06-19 22:30:47	[[R]]	umount -l mounts
2021-06-19 22:30:52	[[R]]	and wonders why things are behaving weird?
2021-06-19 22:31:11	Dagmar	Well, it unmounts but it doesn't free thigns up until it's "done" with it
2021-06-19 22:31:11	rascul	you're behaving weird
2021-06-19 22:31:18	spyroboy	yes. setting that aside, we should be able to figure the issue out.
2021-06-19 22:31:29	[[R]]	SYSTEM TEST: ALL SYSTEMS BEHAVING APPROPRIATELY
2021-06-19 22:31:34	Dagmar	`umount -l` does _not_ make the underlying disk safe to tamper with
2021-06-19 22:31:38	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  17033
2021-06-19 22:31:44	[[R]]	setting aside his system is in a horfifically bad state?
2021-06-19 22:31:44	[[R]]	rofl
2021-06-19 22:31:52	Dagmar	Hey that's his own fault
2021-06-19 22:32:02	FuriousGeorge	dabmar:  it is not mounted
2021-06-19 22:32:13	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, what does readlink /proc/17033/cwd show?
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2021-06-19 22:32:34	Dagmar	If you lazy-unmounted it it's been severed from / but _it's still being used_
2021-06-19 22:33:29	Dagmar	That's allowed because theoretically you're probably going to mount something _else_ at that mountpoint and not mess with the filesystem that's still actually in use until whatever processes were using it have died off.
2021-06-19 22:33:38	spyroboy	[[R]], we can choose to cry over spilled milk or we can choose to use this as an opportunity to learn something new. in the end, he did claim he wasn't a guru. let's help him understand.
2021-06-19 22:33:40	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  /root/
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2021-06-19 22:33:50	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  why isn't sda in use?
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2021-06-19 22:34:04	Dagmar	I have no idea because I don't know what you did with sda
2021-06-19 22:34:09	[[R]]	rofl
2021-06-19 22:34:11	[[R]]	yeah
2021-06-19 22:34:12	[[R]]	dont kill -9
2021-06-19 22:34:13	FuriousGeorge	it's not as if i didn't check alll the stuff, except readlink, that we are checking now
2021-06-19 22:34:14	[[R]]	dont umount -l
2021-06-19 22:34:16	[[R]]	problem solved
2021-06-19 22:34:19	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  as per before, the same thing
2021-06-19 22:34:24	FuriousGeorge	sda sdb are part of an array
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2021-06-19 22:34:41	FuriousGeorge	i unmounted, stopped it, re-partitioned, made fs
2021-06-19 22:34:44	FuriousGeorge	one was busy
2021-06-19 22:34:46	Dagmar	Look so far all I've seen is a bunch of disjointed commands that can best be described as "thrashing around and hoping"
2021-06-19 22:35:07	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, what does lsof -p 17033 show? use root privileges (via sudo or otherwise).
2021-06-19 22:35:10	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  other than readlink, i've already tried every suggestion offered
2021-06-19 22:35:17	Dagmar	If you used umount -l and did something to the partition you "unmounted" then you probably either corrupted the filesystem or caused read errors for whatever was still using that
2021-06-19 22:35:25	Dagmar	THis isn't kindergarten
2021-06-19 22:35:33	Dagmar	You don't get points with the system "because you tried"
2021-06-19 22:35:34	spyroboy	look, guys, none of that is productive.
2021-06-19 22:35:37	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  so work on your listening skills
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2021-06-19 22:35:40	FuriousGeorge	i want to blank the fs
2021-06-19 22:35:47	rascul	reboot would be productive
2021-06-19 22:35:50	spyroboy	let's figure out why his machine is reporting the problem in the first place. nobody cares he's fucked his drive.
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2021-06-19 22:36:03	 *	[[R]] produces rascul 
2021-06-19 22:36:04	Dagmar	Yeah I have yet to see why simply umounting the filesystem and zeroing it is apparently difficuly
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2021-06-19 22:36:08	Dagmar	er difficult
2021-06-19 22:36:09	spyroboy	there's a lodged problem somewhere. let's figure out where it is.
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2021-06-19 22:37:19	robin_	HI! I'm new to IRC and obviously Libera.Chat
2021-06-19 22:37:27	Dagmar	I've defienitely seen two things mentioned that are almost universally the wrong thing, tho'.  Killing a stuck mount process generally accomplishes nothing, and umount -l is only really meant to be used in very particular circumstances by someone who knows _precisely_ what they're doing
2021-06-19 22:37:36	Dagmar	Linux _will_ let you shoot yourself in the foot, with a chainsaw.
2021-06-19 22:37:46	spyroboy	why are we still talking about the past?
2021-06-19 22:37:58	sed	anyone hear about the google OS they are making?
2021-06-19 22:37:59	spyroboy	that doesn't help him.
2021-06-19 22:38:02	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  it shows a bunch of temp files being created by ./some_long_process, none of which are on the directory where the array of sdb and sda was mounted
2021-06-19 22:38:03	Dagmar	It's only by learning from our mistakes that we can progress
2021-06-19 22:38:10	sed	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia
2021-06-19 22:38:26	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  that'
2021-06-19 22:38:33	spyroboy	Dagmar, yes but he can't tell where he made the mistake specifically, so he learns nothing other than 'do nothing I did before' which might entail 'do not use linux'
2021-06-19 22:38:50	spyroboy	we can help him by showing him how to find the problem so he can figure out where he caused it
2021-06-19 22:38:55	FuriousGeorge	s a good analogy, but if it were so easy to do it would be done.
2021-06-19 22:38:58	spyroboy	not but repeatedly telling him he fucked something up.
2021-06-19 22:39:02	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-19 22:39:03	spyroboy	he knows that
2021-06-19 22:39:09	spyroboy	he wouldn't be here if he didn't know that
2021-06-19 22:39:16	Dagmar	spyroboy: Not exactly true.  Knowing which commands you've been using _dangerously_ is a great way to prevent painful data loss in the future
2021-06-19 22:39:32	spyroboy	Dagmar, are you gonna help or not?
2021-06-19 22:39:33	robin_	@sed you mean Fuschia/Zircon?
2021-06-19 22:39:41	Dagmar	Apparently I'm not.
2021-06-19 22:39:42	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  don't woryy about him.  i notice that people, when presented with a problem they can't solve, sometimes get defensive and attack the person presenting the problem
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2021-06-19 22:39:52	[[R]]	sed: and this has what to do with linux?
2021-06-19 22:39:53	FuriousGeorge	other people, like you, are actually helpful, presumably less insecure
2021-06-19 22:40:04	rascul	doesn't seem like a very solvable problem outside a reboot
2021-06-19 22:40:05	Dagmar	Especially when I've got to keep listening to someone complaining rather than hearing useful details that would solve the problem
2021-06-19 22:40:10	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, I'm not actually sure that lsof shows things that kernel threads are holding onto
2021-06-19 22:40:18	spyroboy	gonna quickly see if there's a way to check that
2021-06-19 22:40:20	FuriousGeorge	i haven't complained once, dagmar, but you whine incessantly
2021-06-19 22:40:21	 *	[[R]] reboots rascul 
2021-06-19 22:40:31	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Mainly that was directed at s
2021-06-19 22:40:40	FuriousGeorge	my bad
2021-06-19 22:40:43	Dagmar	No worries
2021-06-19 22:40:56	 *	rascul solves [[R]]'s problem
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2021-06-19 22:41:13	Dagmar	You probably _have_ managed to orphan some filesystem handles
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2021-06-19 22:41:41	rascul	it does seem a strong possibility
2021-06-19 22:42:03	Dagmar	As far as I know it's entirely possible to murder them in a way that they no longer show anythintg resembling a filename and are only identifiable by inode
2021-06-19 22:42:07	FuriousGeorge	well, the good thing is that some long processes will finish, and i've simply mounted sda1 where one of the processes expects sdb 1 to be, so i can reboot later
2021-06-19 22:42:15	spyroboy	does anyone actually know how to check the resources the kernel is currently holding onto?
2021-06-19 22:42:24	rascul	which resources?
2021-06-19 22:42:28	FuriousGeorge	it doesn't even matter if i copy the file later to sdb, i was just asking here for academic/educational reasons
2021-06-19 22:42:30	spyroboy	this whole conversation has me curious since I can't see my own devices in lsof
2021-06-19 22:42:31	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: If the thing does a new open() before it writes you'll be fine
2021-06-19 22:42:37	rascul	and what do you mean by "holding onto" ?
2021-06-19 22:42:37	spyroboy	rascul, files, block devices, etc.
2021-06-19 22:43:00	Dagmar	If it tries to write to some filehandle it opened previous to this messing about, hopefully it'll just get a write error and bail
2021-06-19 22:43:00	spyroboy	like I have multiple drives mounted on my system. how do I see those block devices currently in use by the kernel
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2021-06-19 22:43:41	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, mount | grep /dev/sd
2021-06-19 22:43:42	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Do you code?
2021-06-19 22:44:00	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  where would these orphaned file handles you mention be?  i backed up the data on the disk (the results of ./some_long_process i ran earlier, and intended to blank the disk
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2021-06-19 22:44:07	rascul	spyroboy hrm i'm not sure of a way to monitor kernel's usage of block devices
2021-06-19 22:44:11	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  im ok in a few languages, i wouldn't consider myself a pro
2021-06-19 22:44:13	spyroboy	lol. you'd be surprised how many coders are out there with double digits years of experience and don't know what file handles are.
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2021-06-19 22:44:20	Dagmar	They're _orphaned_ so they'll just be sort of floating around still in use
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2021-06-19 22:44:30	rascul	spyroboy oh well maybe iotop could be a start though
2021-06-19 22:44:35	spyroboy	Dagmar, those would still be reported by lsof, no?
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2021-06-19 22:44:40	 *	[[R]] closes rascul's file handles
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2021-06-19 22:44:54	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: If you code in pretty much any language, I'm going to tell you somethign that's kinda fun, but mostly the idea is to "pull back the curtain" and show you something you might not be aware of
2021-06-19 22:45:05	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, out of curiousity, can you do ls -l /proc/17033/fd
2021-06-19 22:45:18	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: THis is also something we used to do "back in the day" to hide things from umm.. the actual admins
2021-06-19 22:45:20	FuriousGeorge	to the extent that i understand file handles, wouldn't something need to be printfing to a file
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2021-06-19 22:45:40	rascul	not necessarily
2021-06-19 22:45:56	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Basically, you open a filehandle (i.e., start writing a new file) to the disk, throw a couple of bytes at it, then _delete_ the file but do not close the filehandle.
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2021-06-19 22:46:28	spyroboy	you can't hide that. lsof shows that.
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2021-06-19 22:46:37	spyroboy	it also appears in /proc/.../fd
2021-06-19 22:46:47	FuriousGeorge	ls -l /proc/17033/fd returns nothing spyroboy
2021-06-19 22:46:52	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Your process is now attached to basically an orphaned inode.  It no longer has a filename, but it can be treated just like a normal file.  You can read and write from it and seek all around it, and _it will not be visible from the filesystem_
2021-06-19 22:46:53	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, that's not possible.
2021-06-19 22:46:59	UQUBE	hi
2021-06-19 22:47:09	spyroboy	can you run that on a root prompt and paste it here?
2021-06-19 22:47:13	spyroboy	or in PM
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2021-06-19 22:47:32	spyroboy	actually use the pastebin in the topic.
2021-06-19 22:48:00	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  that's interetsting, but ./some_long_process loops, ending with writing a file to the disk.  it's the only thing that would be writing to the disk, and i made sure it was no where near that point when i unmounted
2021-06-19 22:48:04	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: That thing won't go away either until your process dies or is killed because while it might be separated from the directory tree, the inode will _not_ be freed until no process is using it anymore
2021-06-19 22:48:29	FuriousGeorge	so it's basically floating around in ram invisible to the fs?
2021-06-19 22:48:33	Dagmar	It'll also merrily prevent the admin from umounting that filesystem
2021-06-19 22:48:42	spyroboy	I mean if we can stop distracting him, we'll be able to find out if there's an open reference to an inode
2021-06-19 22:48:46	Dagmar	Yeah.  It _does_ exist on disk tho'.
2021-06-19 22:48:55	Dagmar	It's just not currently attached to the directory tree anymore
2021-06-19 22:48:57	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, that ls -l command above cannot return nothing.
2021-06-19 22:49:23	Dagmar	This is the clue that I think maybe you were missing earler
2021-06-19 22:49:25	Dagmar	er earlier
2021-06-19 22:49:42	Dagmar	The knowledge that this is a thing which can happen if processes don't close their filehandles and dispose of them properly
2021-06-19 22:49:52	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, it's not floating around in ram and it's definitely not invisible to the fs.
2021-06-19 22:50:02	spyroboy	what does the ls -l command show?
2021-06-19 22:50:04	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  pardon.  it returned a lot of temp files, and i grepped to see if any were on the disk in question, and that returned nothing.  my mistake
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2021-06-19 22:51:02	spyroboy	what did you grep?
2021-06-19 22:51:11	Dagmar	For the deeply paranoid, deleting a file but keeping it aroudn deliberately used to be the ghetto-tacular way to at least make it hard for someone to steal the user files of an eggdrop bot
2021-06-19 22:51:12	FuriousGeorge	the name of the directory i'm trying to unmount
2021-06-19 22:51:17	FuriousGeorge	to see if any files are there
2021-06-19 22:51:31	spyroboy	can you do mount | grep -F /dev/sd
2021-06-19 22:51:41	spyroboy	and also what does dmesg show as of late?
2021-06-19 22:51:45	spyroboy	anything curious
2021-06-19 22:51:58	UQUBE	lsblk
2021-06-19 22:52:03	UQUBE	df -h
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2021-06-19 22:52:24	spyroboy	it's really hard to help you if you're going to force us to go blind
2021-06-19 22:52:30	FuriousGeorge	mount | grep -F /dev/sd returns mounted disks, and does not include sdb
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2021-06-19 22:52:33	spyroboy	we kind of need to see what you're seeing.
2021-06-19 22:52:36	 *	[[R]] pokes out rascul's eyes, 3 stooges style
2021-06-19 22:52:40	FuriousGeorge	sure no problem
2021-06-19 22:52:54	UQUBE	what is the user trying to do?
2021-06-19 22:52:55	spyroboy	try the lsblk command
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2021-06-19 22:53:19	spyroboy	UQUBE, he seems to have put his system in a very inconsistent state and the kernel is reporting a device he wants to use as busy.
2021-06-19 22:53:28	UQUBE	ah
2021-06-19 22:53:32	spyroboy	we're trying to figure out where the issue is lodged without just rebooting.
2021-06-19 22:53:50	UQUBE	go into fstab and comment out the offening device first
2021-06-19 22:53:52	spyroboy	rebooting would obviously reset the slate but you know .. would be nice to see where the issue is
2021-06-19 22:54:08	UQUBE	i agree
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2021-06-19 22:55:00	spyroboy	out of curiousity, what does ls -l /dev/sdb* show, FuriousGeorge
2021-06-19 22:55:29	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy
2021-06-19 22:55:31	FuriousGeorge	https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/btzKtW3R39/
2021-06-19 22:55:55	FuriousGeorge	# ls -l /dev/sdb
2021-06-19 22:55:56	FuriousGeorge	brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 16 Jun 19 21:43 /dev/sdb
2021-06-19 22:56:03	spyroboy	can you do eject /dev/sdb
2021-06-19 22:56:09	FuriousGeorge	i can
2021-06-19 22:56:21	FuriousGeorge	one sec, it's a stroll away.  thanks for your help.
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2021-06-19 22:56:44	Dagmar	Oh fun.
2021-06-19 22:56:53	Dagmar	sda1 is mounted in two places
2021-06-19 22:56:59	spyroboy	that's not a problem.
2021-06-19 22:57:04	spyroboy	that's totally acceptable.
2021-06-19 22:57:17	Dagmar	I know but it still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up because it used to mean Bad Times Are A'Comin
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2021-06-19 22:57:27	spyroboy	why?
2021-06-19 22:57:46	Dagmar	Becasue long, long ago, the kernel didn't really have so many protections against admins who chew on their keyboards
2021-06-19 22:58:01	Dagmar	You _could_ actually double-mount a filesystem and f**k it up real good, real fast
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2021-06-19 22:58:28	spyroboy	that must be a long time ago because double mounting filesystems has been fine for like 15+ years
2021-06-19 22:59:23	Dagmar	I've been paying my bills with it for longer than that
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2021-06-19 22:59:56	spyroboy	yea but I assume you update your knowledge and opinions of things over time as they become old and archaic, no?
2021-06-19 23:00:01	-->	jmcantrell (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
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2021-06-19 23:00:06	Dagmar	...and IIRC you could still screw it up if you didn't tell the kernel you were doing a bind mount for some time after
2021-06-19 23:00:22	Dagmar	Now it writes that whole series of events off as silly and makes it a bind mount
2021-06-19 23:00:46	Dagmar	spyroboy: yes, and I also learn more places to hide the bodies of the new hires
2021-06-19 23:01:03	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i'd like to introduce you to /dev/sdg1.  should i just go ahead and proceed with the xfs making, which will work i bet
2021-06-19 23:01:21	spyroboy	hm?
2021-06-19 23:01:28	spyroboy	did .. ejecting work?
2021-06-19 23:01:29	Khaytsus	Dagmar: Just not the drop ceiling, it makes it greasy
2021-06-19 23:01:33	spyroboy	why are we talking about /dev/sdg1 now?
2021-06-19 23:01:44	Dagmar	Being that I also get called on the do forensics on systems that are 20 years old sometimes, this stuff is still handy to know
2021-06-19 23:01:57	Dagmar	Khaytsus: Yeah the stains always seep throught
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2021-06-19 23:02:05	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  you asked me to eject, i assumed you wanted me to un-eject also
2021-06-19 23:02:19	spyroboy	oh.
2021-06-19 23:02:23	FuriousGeorge	so we're talking about sdg, cuz that's what it came back as...  or as his friends call him  ata-WDC_WD160EDFZ-11AFWA0_2CHAVNNP
2021-06-19 23:02:37	spyroboy	I meant the command eject but I guess that works too.
2021-06-19 23:02:40	spyroboy	can you format it now?
2021-06-19 23:02:45	loganlee	where can i get cloak for my ip in this server? thanks
2021-06-19 23:02:56	-->	oko (~oko@user/oko) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 23:03:02	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  my bad.  it is in a hotswap bay, so i misunderstood
2021-06-19 23:03:07	jmcantrell	loganlee: #libera-cloak
2021-06-19 23:03:13	Dagmar	Ah he beat me to it
2021-06-19 23:03:14	loganlee	ok thanks i'll try that
2021-06-19 23:03:22	Dagmar	loganlee: Don't take the kicking personally.  ;)
2021-06-19 23:03:31	Dagmar	You'll see what I'm talking aobut
2021-06-19 23:03:33	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, np. I imagine it will work now. let us know.
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2021-06-19 23:03:50	Bocaneri	loganlee, when you get there, read the topic. You WILL be kickbanned - it ain't you, it's an automatic mechanism.
2021-06-19 23:03:51	jmcantrell	here's your cloak. now beat it!
2021-06-19 23:04:01	Dagmar	*b00t!*
2021-06-19 23:04:02	<--	loganlee (~user@n122-106-58-30.sbr1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has quit (Changing host)
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2021-06-19 23:04:05	Dagmar	It's _quick_
2021-06-19 23:04:12	Bocaneri	Yup!
2021-06-19 23:04:17	Bocaneri	loganlee, you are CLOAKED.
2021-06-19 23:04:20	loganlee	Bocaneri: yep
2021-06-19 23:04:31	Psi-Jack	Yeah, cloaking is fully botted.
2021-06-19 23:04:34	<--	sheepduck (~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-19 23:04:54	Dagmar	BitchX put a lot of chatter up when I got my cloak so it took me about 30 lines of reading to figure out what happened.  heh
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2021-06-19 23:05:07	spyroboy	you use bitchx?
2021-06-19 23:05:08	Psi-Jack	People... Still use that client?
2021-06-19 23:05:29	Dagmar	Yes, because I _trust it_.  I've had the time to go over every piece of the thing
2021-06-19 23:05:31	Bocaneri	Man, I used BitchX when I was still young enough to.... um... never mind.
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2021-06-19 23:05:37	Bocaneri	But it was a LONG time ago.
2021-06-19 23:05:50	Khaytsus	I stopped using bitchx in lke..  2007
2021-06-19 23:05:54	hodapp	I mostly knew of BitchX because it had the completely idiotic quit messages
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2021-06-19 23:06:06	spyroboy	oh yea I forgot baout those
2021-06-19 23:06:17	Bocaneri	On the VPS I've taken up irssi.
2021-06-19 23:06:19	Dagmar	I only recently began tolerating letting it have unicode support
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2021-06-19 23:06:28	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  you're correct.  it is formatting fine now.  thanks for your help.  you taught me a few tricks today
2021-06-19 23:06:54	Bocaneri	FuriousGeorge, stick around. This place can be an education.
2021-06-19 23:06:58	spyroboy	I mean we never really did figure out what the problem is but at least you can use the device without rebooting.
2021-06-19 23:07:09	-->	willyg_cos (~joeuser@user/willyg-cos/x-4994202) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 23:07:11	Dagmar	...and we identified a few things Thou Shalt Not Do
2021-06-19 23:07:22	-->	RingtailedFox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:ccea:5b14:de2e:10b8) has joined #linux
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2021-06-19 23:07:40	Dagmar	(not to mention covered the rare cases when Okay Maybe Thou Canst Just This Once)
2021-06-19 23:07:49	spyroboy	anyway yes, next time don't brazenly format things or unmount things while things are still doing things lol
2021-06-19 23:07:52	FuriousGeorge	i like it in here.  years ago, back on freenode, this channel was a junk-storm of verbosity and chaos.  i avoided for years, would go to #current_distro instead
2021-06-19 23:07:53	Bocaneri	Thou Shalt Not Dump Where Thou Doest Eat.
2021-06-19 23:08:02	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-19 23:08:05	UQUBE	is it worth getting the Linux+ ?
2021-06-19 23:08:16	[[R]]	UQUBE: do you want a job that requires it?
2021-06-19 23:08:17	FuriousGeorge	now it is a lot better
2021-06-19 23:08:19	-->	dtg01100 (~dtg01100@199.21.141.37) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 23:08:26	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Well still be sticklers about going to #distrochannel when you clearly have a distro-specific problem
2021-06-19 23:08:46	Dagmar	...mainly because they'll be more likely to know it and no one here has admitted to knowing it yet
2021-06-19 23:08:52	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  that's reasonable
2021-06-19 23:09:12	Dagmar	I got people who call my phone a few times a month if I want to abuse someone
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2021-06-19 23:09:28	Dagmar	I'll be sad when they finally ban and block _all_ the spam calls
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2021-06-19 23:09:54	Khaytsus	I won't, because if Julia from Datadogs calls me one.. more...  damn...  time....
2021-06-19 23:10:06	Dagmar	Hah.  Those peopel can be reasoned with.
2021-06-19 23:10:06	spyroboy	better not to pick them up tho. a lot of spam calls are there simply to detect if it's a number that exists/that will pick up.
2021-06-19 23:10:14	spyroboy	they use it to build better databases for scammers
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2021-06-19 23:10:42	Khaytsus	Yep, detecting a live one is what half the calls are these days..  curating a list
2021-06-19 23:10:44	-->	anginapectoris7 (~anginapec@user/anginapectoris) has joined #linux
2021-06-19 23:10:45	Dagmar	spyroboy: That's basically a myth.  Most of those operations just spew out randon numbers and ditch the ones that don't connect to a ringing device
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2021-06-19 23:11:04	spyroboy	that's the point.
2021-06-19 23:11:12	Dagmar	ABout the only way to make them stop is to terrify whoever's running the cube farm
2021-06-19 23:11:15	spyroboy	how is it a myth if you just reiterated what I just said lol
2021-06-19 23:11:16	Khaytsus	if I answer the phone the other person has to say something first.
2021-06-19 23:11:30	[[R]]	julia? she sounds hot
2021-06-19 23:11:33	Dagmar	Cuz they're not tyring to confirm a voice
2021-06-19 23:11:40	 *	hodapp thwaps [[R]]
2021-06-19 23:11:42	spyroboy	they don't need to confirm a voice.
2021-06-19 23:11:45	Khaytsus	[[R]]: She will be if she calls me again
2021-06-19 23:11:50	spyroboy	they can tell if you pick up without a voice.
2021-06-19 23:11:54	Dagmar	Their system is doing several hundred call originations per minute
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2021-06-19 23:12:14	[[R]]	i can't remember the last time i answered the phone for someone that wasn't in my address book
2021-06-19 23:12:16	Dagmar	...but at that stage you know right away if you dialed a number that's not tied to a phone somewhere.
2021-06-19 23:12:49	Khaytsus	yeah, I almost NEVEr anwer calls.. right now I have a few things going that people need to contact me for so I have to
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2021-06-19 23:12:57	Dagmar	But if, on the other hand, you answer the phone, and pretend to be a sucker for about 20 minutes, start some small talk with the person on the other end of the phone, commiserate them about how you both hate your jobs...
2021-06-19 23:12:58	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, how long have you been using Linux? what do you use it for?
2021-06-19 23:12:58	Khaytsus	But normally nope, if I don't know you, nope
2021-06-19 23:13:11	Dagmar	...and then suggest perhaps things would be better if someone maybe came in and shot up the office or just burned it all down.
2021-06-19 23:13:18	Dagmar	THEN they will put you into a list not to be called
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2021-06-19 23:13:45	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  first time i used it was probably over 20 years ago.  i use to virtualize my windows desktop and set up multiseat with vfio :D
2021-06-19 23:13:48	rascul	i wonder if you'll end up on other lists also
2021-06-19 23:13:57	Dagmar	Because that poor SOB you're talking to is never the guy running the show.  They _do_ hate their boss.  And they _will_ hesitate, sometimes for several seconds, before saying "Oh no, that would be WRONG!"
2021-06-19 23:13:59	FuriousGeorge	i also have a proxmox ha cluster for some of my vms, and a couple for work too
2021-06-19 23:14:13	Dagmar	...and their boss will realize that if they keep calling you, you're going to find a taker.
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2021-06-19 23:14:36	Dagmar	Theres' probably an 80% chance that if you see in the news that someone burned down a call center, that _I_ was the reason
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2021-06-19 23:15:06	Kyv	just climb a clocktower afterwards so I know its you
2021-06-19 23:15:06	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i tried linux when beos folded, let's put it that way
2021-06-19 23:15:06	Dagmar	I get maybe 2-3 calls of that type a month now.
2021-06-19 23:15:08	Khaytsus	Dagmar: Everyone..  lock up your boss, everyone else get out.
2021-06-19 23:15:14	r3muxd	am i using clang++ wrong? https://termbin.com/b1s7
2021-06-19 23:15:30	Dagmar	IO really need to put osme of these up on youtube
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2021-06-19 23:15:37	hodapp	drunkmar
2021-06-19 23:15:42	<--	willyg_cos (~joeuser@user/willyg-cos/x-4994202) has quit (Quit: Gone to sleep.)
2021-06-19 23:15:45	Dagmar	No, I gotta be sober for this stuff
2021-06-19 23:15:52	r3muxd	i'm running kubuntu 21.10 and this behavior baffled me, i'm not sure if i screwed something up but that seems like basic functionality that should work, right?
2021-06-19 23:16:07	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, cool. so basically you used it a long time ago for some period of time and then basically not at all until now?
2021-06-19 23:16:16	Dagmar	It requires focus, creativity, a clear purpose, and a total dedication to sociopathy to truly manipulate someone with just your voice alone
2021-06-19 23:16:32	johnnyapol	r3muxd:if you drop -std=c++20 does it still compile?
2021-06-19 23:16:40	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i tied to use it as my desktop when i was younger, then i started using it for work a little for asterisk, and it just kinda built over the years to a proxmox ha cluster
2021-06-19 23:16:49	r3muxd	it compiles with -std=c++20 if i add a main
2021-06-19 23:17:00	r3muxd	but the codebase i'm trying to compile is on c++20 and it works with gcc
2021-06-19 23:17:04	Dagmar	I *was* getting a steady supply of victims from my wife's phone, but they're starting to blacklist her number now, too
2021-06-19 23:17:11	r3muxd	without -std=c++20*
2021-06-19 23:17:34	FuriousGeorge	but i was not an IT/CS major, so i kinda stumbled into this...  i studied psychology lol
2021-06-19 23:17:46	spyroboy	heh
2021-06-19 23:18:06	<--	slopey_ (~slopey@user/slopey) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-19 23:18:09	spyroboy	to be fair, I'm not sure it matters what background you have when you get into systems administration.
2021-06-19 23:18:26	FuriousGeorge	that's good to hear, heh
2021-06-19 23:18:26	Dagmar	Yeah pretty much every science has a use for online data storage nowadays
2021-06-19 23:18:30	spyroboy	it's not like 'figuring out why my kernel is upset' is a computer science concept
2021-06-19 23:18:50	spyroboy	it's more akin to a mechanic getting a certification to work on Honda engines
2021-06-19 23:19:13	FuriousGeorge	your analogy makes sense
2021-06-19 23:19:14	spyroboy	there was obviously science involved in designing Honda engines but learning how one works and how to fix them is more about reading a manual
2021-06-19 23:19:45	Bocaneri	Speaking as the guy who used to make your engines: amen.
2021-06-19 23:19:49	Dagmar	Mainly it's important you know which end of hte virgin goes into the volcano first.
2021-06-19 23:20:00	FuriousGeorge	people who aren't tech savvy say i seam very tech savvy to them, and i often tell them engine mechanics are the folks who impress me
2021-06-19 23:20:31	Dagmar	THe kernel has more fiddly pieces
2021-06-19 23:20:38	Bocaneri	Mechanics impress the hell out of me, actually. They have HELLA powers of deductive reasoning.
2021-06-19 23:20:40	r3muxd	huh
2021-06-19 23:20:40	FuriousGeorge	anyway, it's good that we worked it out, because the nukes would have definitely launched if ./some_long_process had finished first
2021-06-19 23:20:44	FuriousGeorge	;)
2021-06-19 23:20:56	spyroboy	if anything those fiddly pieces is what makes it less of a science lol
2021-06-19 23:20:57	r3muxd	if i add "typename" on that "ranges" line it compiles
2021-06-19 23:20:59	Dagmar	Bocaneri: They have to.  You can't really run a debugger on a set of pistons
2021-06-19 23:21:11	r3muxd	does ubuntu ship broken headers?
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2021-06-19 23:21:31	Bocaneri	r3muxd, not in my experience, no. What makes you ask?
2021-06-19 23:21:36	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, I mean, did you remount the device under your process?
2021-06-19 23:21:41	spyroboy	or?
2021-06-19 23:21:46	Dagmar	r3muxd: It's more a matter of in the default configuration they do not expect you to be _compilin' stuff_ so they're not broken, they're just not _there_
2021-06-19 23:22:01	Dagmar	The few .h files you *do* see are there for entirely different reasons.
2021-06-19 23:22:11	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  yeah, after i misunderstood you and literally ejected the hotswap, it just worked
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2021-06-19 23:22:15	r3muxd	well i mean there was a syntax error in the c++ library that i had to fix
2021-06-19 23:22:21	r3muxd	which seems extremely weird
2021-06-19 23:22:26	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  technically, i reinserted first
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2021-06-19 23:22:30	Dagmar	Yeah you better write down what you did
2021-06-19 23:22:39	Dagmar	It will almost certainly come back to haunt you later.
2021-06-19 23:22:56	r3muxd	yeah, i'm trying to figure out how to find the upstream source of libstdc++10-dev
2021-06-19 23:22:59	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i was going to try that, but i figured i would not be a troglodyte and i'd ask in here first
2021-06-19 23:23:14	r3muxd	so i can figure out if it was patched upstream and i'm waiting for ubuntu to patch it, or if it's a legitimate bug i should file against upstream
2021-06-19 23:23:50	Dagmar	r3muxd: if you go ahead and try to file it as a bug someone will probably be able to tell you what obscure thing you're missing that's why you seemed to need to make that change
2021-06-19 23:24:06	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  yes, and to answer your question, i stopped ./long_process, unmounted sda, which was mounted twice, and mounted sdh or whatever it came back as
2021-06-19 23:24:15	FuriousGeorge	sdh1
2021-06-19 23:24:16	spyroboy	FuriousGeorge, where is your process going to write to?
2021-06-19 23:24:18	[[R]]	r3muxd: that comes from gcc
2021-06-19 23:24:37	FuriousGeorge	it will write to /store2, which is the drive that was stuck in use before we ejected
2021-06-19 23:24:40	johnnyapol	include <algorithm> works fine for me on clang12 with --std=c++20
2021-06-19 23:24:48	FuriousGeorge	so the nukes will not launch, lithuania is safe for now
2021-06-19 23:24:52	spyroboy	actually sorry let's back up. what do you mean 'the nukes would have definitely launched if ./some_long_process had finished first'
2021-06-19 23:24:53	r3muxd	i'm on 12 too
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2021-06-19 23:25:00	Dagmar	heheh
2021-06-19 23:25:16	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  i'm running a nuclear silo for the government (kidding)
2021-06-19 23:25:25	[[R]]	nukuler
2021-06-19 23:25:26	Dagmar	Not on anything running LInxu you're not
2021-06-19 23:25:29	Dagmar	THank god
2021-06-19 23:25:52	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  they use floppies, and i assume some unix...  but as of a few years ago, floppies for sure
2021-06-19 23:25:53	Dagmar	They were basically the last place to still be usign 8-inch floppy disks
2021-06-19 23:25:56	r3muxd	yeah in gcc it has the keyword typename
2021-06-19 23:26:05	spyroboy	so you unmounted /dev/sda1 from /store2 and mounted the re-inserted re-formatted device on /store2?
2021-06-19 23:26:06	FuriousGeorge	probably that microsoft unix, whatever it was called
2021-06-19 23:26:08	r3muxd	https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/commit/a5b213dda50aca90637979f13da2eb377eff9930 oh hey
2021-06-19 23:26:12	r3muxd	16 months ago
2021-06-19 23:26:13	r3muxd	thanks ubuntu
2021-06-19 23:26:14	spyroboy	and that's where your process is going to write when it's done?
2021-06-19 23:26:15	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Nope.  Older than that
2021-06-19 23:26:31	FuriousGeorge	yeah, you're right, that was late 80s or so
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2021-06-19 23:26:40	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  exactly what i did
2021-06-19 23:26:46	r3muxd	and it's because they ship gcc 10
2021-06-19 23:26:47	 *	r3muxd sighs
2021-06-19 23:26:55	spyroboy	that seems safe enough.
2021-06-19 23:27:00	Dagmar	You can no longer build a system and then kill everyone who made it to keep your secrets, but you CAN build a system and just keep using it until everyone involved has died of old age
2021-06-19 23:27:01	FuriousGeorge	sda1 was mounted  twice because i was not sure if i would let process finish and reboot or do the eject thing
2021-06-19 23:27:31	johnnyapol	ah, you can switch to clang's stl implementation by passing -stdlib=libc++ (assuming you have it on your system)
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2021-06-19 23:28:04	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: Under normal circumstances you shouldn't need to issue an eject command on fixed disks
2021-06-19 23:28:38	spyroboy	I didn't actually expect him to remove the physical device. I was just curious if it'd make the kernel forget about it.
2021-06-19 23:28:43	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  i misunderstood him and literally ejected the disk via the hotswap bay.  i have to admit, i kind of wanted to do it anyway
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2021-06-19 23:29:09	Dagmar	Yeah...
2021-06-19 23:29:11	spyroboy	I actually assumed it was a device in a regular ol' chassis
2021-06-19 23:29:27	Dagmar	That's another thing you should never ever do until you've managed to cleanly umount the stuff on it.  Heh
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2021-06-19 23:29:48	FuriousGeorge	is there a linux command to identify disks via creating LED activity, like you see in some other hardware?  currently i dd to dev null
2021-06-19 23:30:00	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: That actually works pretty good
2021-06-19 23:30:04	spyroboy	FYI I'd still reboot at your earliest convenience. just to make sure the kernel doesn't have any confusing state lying around.
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2021-06-19 23:30:11	Dagmar	For some fancy raid controllers there'll be a command for it
2021-06-19 23:30:15	FuriousGeorge	spyroboy:  will do
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2021-06-19 23:30:37	Dagmar	...for things which arne't fancy raid controllers there's usually jsut one led for all the disks
2021-06-19 23:31:28	Dagmar	I am subtly suggesting you look for the man page for the management utility for your disk controller.
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2021-06-19 23:32:53	Dagmar	THe perc and HP controllers I've got have a fairly simple utility for turning the LEDs off and on
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2021-06-19 23:34:00	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  i flashed mine into IT mode...  does that make a difference?
2021-06-19 23:34:16	Dagmar	"IT mode"?
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2021-06-19 23:35:11	FuriousGeorge	i think it's synonymous with hba mode...  it's been years, but i think i flashed them because they did not do hba mode otherwise
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2021-06-19 23:35:24	Dagmar	Oh... probably not
2021-06-19 23:35:46	FuriousGeorge	https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/what-is-it-mode.328/
2021-06-19 23:35:53	Dagmar	Whatever mode it's in isn't going to be likely to impact the importance of Not Removing The Wrong Member Of A Failing Array
2021-06-19 23:36:29	FuriousGeorge	seems like hardware raid is falling out of fashion now, am i wrong?
2021-06-19 23:36:36	Dagmar	not really.
2021-06-19 23:36:48	Dagmar	People are getting over their fascination with bullshit controllers tho
2021-06-19 23:37:03	Dagmar	If it doesn't have a battery backed cache on it, there's basically no reason to have it around
2021-06-19 23:37:07	FuriousGeorge	there's also that fascination with zfs, which does not like hardware raid
2021-06-19 23:37:24	Dagmar	WEll, it tries to make some presumptions about disk behaviour
2021-06-19 23:37:33	FuriousGeorge	mine make quite the sound without that battery (pending disabling it)
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2021-06-19 23:37:57	decompyler	btrfs ftw?
2021-06-19 23:37:57	FuriousGeorge	batteries were not included
2021-06-19 23:38:06	FuriousGeorge	never tried but i hear it's good
2021-06-19 23:38:18	Psi-Jack	I use btrfs on my desktop and tabtop. :)
2021-06-19 23:38:29	[[R]]	i cant' brlive it's not butter, fs
2021-06-19 23:38:40	Dagmar	Basically, if it's "just" wrangling the array, the CPU is easily capable of doing that now
2021-06-19 23:38:44	FuriousGeorge	im wondering something about server motherboards with integrated SAS controllers...  it seems like on the older model supermicros at least, they don't get pci lanes
2021-06-19 23:38:56	Dagmar	...and as an added bonus, things like mdadm aren't even a little bit proprietary
2021-06-19 23:39:10	FuriousGeorge	so doesn't that mean they are just sata with a sas plug?
2021-06-19 23:39:32	Dagmar	So, unless the thing has a cache on it that can prevent short writes and soft failures in the event of some power interruption, a hardware raid controller is more of a liability than a boon
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2021-06-19 23:40:07	Dagmar	God help you if the thing is caching and _doens't_ have a battery
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2021-06-19 23:40:18	Dagmar	Those are very efficient at destroying databases
2021-06-19 23:41:14	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: You're going to probably be mad when you find the answer to that
2021-06-19 23:41:21	FuriousGeorge	https://pasteboard.co/K7qnRt5.png
2021-06-19 23:41:36	Bocaneri	I now have a keyboard I don't hate. FEAR ME.
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2021-06-19 23:41:50	Bocaneri	I can actually TYPE on this goddamn thing!
2021-06-19 23:42:10	FuriousGeorge	Dagmar:  the schematic does show pci lanes going from the chipset to one of the pci slots...  https://pasteboard.co/K7qnRt5.png
2021-06-19 23:42:14	Bocaneri	FEAR ME! THE GRUMPY OLD ASSHOLE HAS A KEYBOARD THAT WORKS!
2021-06-19 23:42:15	FuriousGeorge	could that be for the sas?
2021-06-19 23:42:20	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: They're basically the same thing
2021-06-19 23:42:30	Dagmar	SAS uses a different duplex
2021-06-19 23:42:41	Dagmar	Some of the other internals are different and more advanced.
2021-06-19 23:43:21	FuriousGeorge	i have a board that's one year older, and on that one everything goes through the chipset, including the pci bays.  it's a real bottleneck
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2021-06-19 23:43:55	FuriousGeorge	you're at the mercy of your qpi. or whatever it is called, which on the older board is pcie 2.0 x 4 lanes
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2021-06-19 23:44:23	FuriousGeorge	on this one it is at least pcie 3.0, but still x4
2021-06-19 23:45:24	Dagmar	It shouldn';t be a problem
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2021-06-19 23:46:25	FuriousGeorge	dagmar:  you're confidence inspires confidence in me
2021-06-19 23:46:31	Dagmar	THey all use pci lanes
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2021-06-19 23:46:47	Dagmar	It's just a matter of how many they're using
2021-06-19 23:46:48	FuriousGeorge	yeah, but the pci lanes from the pci slots go to the cpu directly
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2021-06-19 23:47:12	FuriousGeorge	so, compare the onboard sas controller with a pcie sas controller of the same chipset
2021-06-19 23:47:23	FuriousGeorge	wouldn't the pcie controller be better?
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2021-06-19 23:47:45	Dagmar	That depends on how many lanes it's using and whether or not you've learned the dark secrets of which lanes map to which of the damn slots
2021-06-19 23:47:58	Dagmar	Thats' one place where I'd check the manual, and then probably light some incence anyway
2021-06-19 23:48:17	Dagmar	On some boards there's still annoying overlap of _some_ lanes between different ports
2021-06-19 23:48:27	decompyler	"pci lanes go directly to the cpu" unless you are intel 10 gen on the top m.2 slot
2021-06-19 23:48:31	Dagmar	It's like vendors just want to count on people never fully populating the board
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2021-06-19 23:49:19	Dagmar	I've had some friends find out the hard way with their overkill mining efforts
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2021-06-19 23:51:29	Dagmar	To speicifcally address something there, as far as I know it doesn't make a bit of difference if you're using a controller built into the board or a controller you had to plug into a socket
2021-06-19 23:51:50	FuriousGeorge	i have to check my workstation threadripper board, speaking of that decompyler.  the integrated m2s seem a bit slow
2021-06-19 23:51:54	Dagmar	...except you don't have a lot of options when it comes to the one that's built into the mainboard
2021-06-19 23:52:18	Dagmar	FuriousGeorge: You may find that osme of your ports share some lanes
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2021-06-19 23:53:24	FuriousGeorge	i know my u2 and pcie4 are shared, but there are no drawings in this prosumer boards manual, like you see in the server boards' nabuaks
2021-06-19 23:53:28	FuriousGeorge	manuals*
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2021-06-19 23:54:27	FuriousGeorge	so, fo instance, one ,m2 gets plugged in under the chipset heatsink...  so i;d assume it's working on shared lanes with the chipset
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2021-06-19 23:54:49	FuriousGeorge	but that one is actually faster than the raid0 pair i have mounted right by my ram  *shrug*
2021-06-19 23:55:00	FuriousGeorge	i don't think raid0 helps the nvmes much
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2021-06-20 00:01:58	decompyler	FuriousGeorge: I'm saying that m.2's do not work at all in the top slot of intel boards for gen 10 cpus. Intel in their "infinite wisdom", released the spec for their interface and didn't deliver. Again.
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2021-06-20 00:06:47	decompyler	Thus the quick release of Gen11
2021-06-20 00:07:04	FuriousGeorge	decompyler:  did not know that...  seems like quite the screwup
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2021-06-20 00:07:40	decompyler	intel is scrambling now that AMD is kang
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2021-06-20 00:07:43	FuriousGeorge	didn't intel also release a chip that was not good at math before amd did, years ago?
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2021-06-20 00:08:38	decompyler	yeah and they also have FBI back doors ME (management engine). Screw intel
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2021-06-20 00:09:00	FuriousGeorge	is that confirmed?  fbi back doors?
2021-06-20 00:09:08	decompyler	confirmed
2021-06-20 00:09:41	FuriousGeorge	fbi should just exploit speculative execution like everyone else
2021-06-20 00:09:52	Henry151	anybody in here using rsync.net?
2021-06-20 00:10:35	Samizdat	No, but looks interesting.
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2021-06-20 00:11:01	FuriousGeorge	decompyler:  what kind of output does one get from a cpu back door?  i'm sure it's not like using vnc or soemthing
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2021-06-20 00:11:06	FuriousGeorge	that has to be pretty raw
2021-06-20 00:11:25	FuriousGeorge	not saying it is not useful, just curious
2021-06-20 00:11:31	Henry151	i was checking out a tiny box just to try them out (plan to run borg backup on it) and they dangled a lifetime 1TB offer at the end
2021-06-20 00:11:36	Henry151	it's looking kinda tempting
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2021-06-20 00:12:03	FuriousGeorge	how much per tb these days Henry151
2021-06-20 00:12:48	Henry151	they're offering a lifetime terabyte for $900
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2021-06-20 00:13:02	decompyler	not sure. But it has been proven to at least control basic system functions. No idea what it might be used for but "tinfoil" biggins
2021-06-20 00:13:02	Henry151	which i'm sure is more expensive than elsewhere, but they look pretty top notch
2021-06-20 00:14:35	Kyv	AMD has their own backdoorsy equivalent, you're not escaping that by using AMD.
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2021-06-20 00:15:30	decompyler	I know there is no escape from the control freaks :D
2021-06-20 00:15:43	johnnyapol	apparently intel ships a special TPM for China (i guess its state crypto restrictions) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/854065094664650783/856024493515210843/image.png
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2021-06-20 00:16:09	FuriousGeorge	Henry151:  as in a one time payment?  im sure that service will be pretty bad given time...  beware the lifetime deal
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2021-06-20 00:17:02	FuriousGeorge	johnnyapol: can't say im surprised
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2021-06-20 00:17:56	FuriousGeorge	johnnyapol:  imagine selling something once, and having to support it for decades
2021-06-20 00:18:09	FuriousGeorge	im sure there's some fine print there
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2021-06-20 00:19:18	Henry151	FuriousGeorge: yeah, interestingly they didn't have the lifetime option listed on the pricing page.. they look like a very full-service high-end operation.. but i think i would have to agree with ya
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2021-06-20 00:32:58	Henry151	this thing is interesting too: https://0x.co/
2021-06-20 00:33:14	Henry151	largely unrelated but there was a connection
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2021-06-20 00:52:25	Dagmar	I just realized the motherboard diagram that was posted earlier does show the controller using PCI lanes.  heh
2021-06-20 00:52:29	Dagmar	Bad diagram
2021-06-20 00:52:32	Dagmar	No biscuit!
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2021-06-20 00:53:07	rascul	kfc biscuit or popeys biscuit though?
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2021-06-20 00:56:38	 *	pnbeast can't get enough fake butter in a squeezable, single-serve plastic pouch, either way.
2021-06-20 00:56:48	rascul	try two pouches
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2021-06-20 01:00:32	Bocaneri	I've never been to a popeye's. How's the food?
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2021-06-20 01:03:31	ionface	cleaner KFC plus fried okra
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2021-06-20 01:08:16	ionface	https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Popeyes_Chicken_%26_Biscuits_products
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2021-06-20 01:08:20	ionface	https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Kentucky_Fried_Chicken_products
2021-06-20 01:09:34	Bocaneri	Hrm. Have to look up where the nearest place is.
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2021-06-20 01:11:15	Psi-Jack	Hmmm.. I've never seen a Popeye's with fried okra...
2021-06-20 01:11:17	ionface	with regards to KFC biscuits though, very thick and dry compared to any other biscuit I've had
2021-06-20 01:11:39	Psi-Jack	Yeah, their biscuits are super dry.
2021-06-20 01:11:53	penguino	apparently there was a stabbing when someone cut in line for a popeye's chicken sandwich: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-stabbed-death-fight-popeyes-chicken-sandwich-police/story?id=66758004
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2021-06-20 01:12:00	Bocaneri	Oh, hell, there's one right in the middle of my stomping grounds and I ignored it!
2021-06-20 01:12:11	Psi-Jack	Practically suck the saliva out of your mouth as you eat them, making you /need/ a drink, while still trying to eat it.
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2021-06-20 01:13:47	davi_	The spicy chicken sandwitch at Popeyes is pretty good
2021-06-20 01:14:01	davi_	But i don't eat there often.
2021-06-20 01:14:02	Psi-Jack	Bocaneri: Heh, my city currently has one, in the entire city, but there's one just 2 blocks away being built. Finally.
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2021-06-20 01:14:41	Bocaneri	I have to drive an hour to get to the nearest one, but in that city, there are three.
2021-06-20 01:14:47	davi_	We have a popeyes and a KFC not to far from each other
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2021-06-20 01:16:00	davi_	Though if i had to choose, The Popeyes fries are nice and crispy,
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2021-06-20 01:18:53	ionface	hmm, Psi-Jack I think you're right about the sides, I don't see it on their menu
2021-06-20 01:19:13	Psi-Jack	I am very pissed that they recently took off cajun rice from their menu.
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2021-06-20 01:19:34	davi_	I have not tried their rice.
2021-06-20 01:19:39	davi_	Is it any good?
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2021-06-20 01:19:48	ionface	yes
2021-06-20 01:19:58	davi_	I usually just would eat Asian rice.
2021-06-20 01:20:06	Psi-Jack	Their cajun rice is. A lot of people rave on their red beans and rice too.
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2021-06-20 01:21:48	davi_	Was their any reason why they took it off?
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2021-06-20 01:22:46	Psi-Jack	There never was any reason for taking any of their things off the menu.
2021-06-20 01:23:23	Psi-Jack	And, they've taken off more and more things off their side items menu, than anyone else. And now it's down to me not wanting to go there for anything but their chicken and fries.
2021-06-20 01:23:36	davi_	That's some pozzed shit
2021-06-20 01:23:55	davi_	Probably a business thing idk
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2021-06-20 01:25:15	ionface	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5NJgO38AE&t=356s obligatory popeyes meme
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2021-06-20 01:29:00	ionface	ah here's my favorite KFC thing https://youtu.be/6TdOFoxUbXs?t=266
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2021-06-20 01:30:43	Bocaneri	davi_, "I don't know", not "idk".
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2021-06-20 01:39:39	ionface	Yeah, this is the international Linux support chat, no web slang! Now if cajun rice were open source, would you download a side?
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2021-06-20 01:40:50	ionface	oh, that reminds me that this exists: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Chef
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2021-06-20 01:42:37	[[R]]	when i was a kid, i used to eat at the cajun place at the mall, and they had this weird rice
2021-06-20 01:42:43	[[R]]	had to pick the beans out of it
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2021-06-20 01:48:00	davi_	I have yet to try cajun rice.
2021-06-20 01:48:27	Kyv	have you tried rice?
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2021-06-20 01:48:41	[[R]]	how did all these differnet cultures invent rice?
2021-06-20 01:49:08	Kyv	aliums
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2021-06-20 01:50:25	davi_	Yes, I love fried rice
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2021-06-20 01:50:56	Kyv	its like that, with cajun seasonings.
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2021-06-20 01:52:26	davi_	Interesting, Then, I will have to go somewhere to try it
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2021-06-20 01:53:01	Kyv	at least eat the seasonings
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2021-06-20 01:53:37	davi_	I can do that, For the most part food is just drenched with seasonings and spices
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2021-06-20 01:56:59	Kyv	it could be
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2021-06-20 01:58:18	Bocaneri	They're probably not the Real Thing (tm) but you can get jambalaya and gumbo in cans at the grocery store.
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2021-06-20 02:01:11	FuriousGeorge	im having something odd happen.  im trying to write a large file to a hdd...  it's about 100gb.    it is taking far longer than it should, and trying to do anything with the disk such as ls -la or creating a file, locks the process
2021-06-20 02:01:19	FuriousGeorge	they odd thing is, there is no complaining in the log
2021-06-20 02:01:33	FuriousGeorge	to be clear, this is not the disk that i was asking about a couple of hours ago
2021-06-20 02:02:02	Bocaneri	What's the file's source?
2021-06-20 02:02:17	FuriousGeorge	a ssd in the same server
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2021-06-20 02:02:27	Bocaneri	How long is "far too long"?
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2021-06-20 02:03:27	davi_	Is it possible to compress it first before moving it over to the server?
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2021-06-20 02:04:05	angular_mike_	When I set ntpdate to run as a service (openrc), it blocks the login prompt till it finishes. What is the proper way to set it up to run on boot without blocking?
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2021-06-20 02:04:11	Bocaneri	As I understood it, he's copying a hundred gigs from an SSD to a spinner.
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2021-06-20 02:04:36	FuriousGeorge	davi_:  it is compressed from nearly 300 gn
2021-06-20 02:04:53	akoana	angular_mike_: ntpdate &
2021-06-20 02:04:53	FuriousGeorge	Bocaneri:  too long is about 2 hours
2021-06-20 02:05:21	Bocaneri	Yeah, my Walmart computer does far better than that. The destination disk IS a spinner, yes?
2021-06-20 02:05:23	FuriousGeorge	i cannot background the task either...  it took long enough that i offset ./some_big_copy process by an hour, and then the second process started also trying to copy
2021-06-20 02:05:34	FuriousGeorge	yes destination is spinner
2021-06-20 02:05:40	Bocaneri	Wjat
2021-06-20 02:05:42	Bocaneri	Grr/
2021-06-20 02:05:43	Bocaneri	Wjhat
2021-06-20 02:05:48	Bocaneri	GODDAMN it!
2021-06-20 02:05:52	Bocaneri	What's the target FS?
2021-06-20 02:05:53	FuriousGeorge	what?  lol
2021-06-20 02:05:55	FuriousGeorge	i man
2021-06-20 02:05:57	davi_	by spinner you mean HDD?
2021-06-20 02:05:57	FuriousGeorge	i mean
2021-06-20 02:06:00	FuriousGeorge	yes
2021-06-20 02:06:14	angular_mike_	akoana: is that the proper way?
2021-06-20 02:06:34	FuriousGeorge	i have 5 processes compressing a file and then copying that file to a disk....  i i offset them by anhour so that they would not all copy at the same time
2021-06-20 02:06:35	akoana	it will run in the background and not block
2021-06-20 02:06:57	[[R]]	angular_mike_: no, the proper way is to use systemd
2021-06-20 02:07:00	FuriousGeorge	well, because it is taking so long, i had to background the last thre, but the first two are just stuck copying, i guess.  control z does not do anything
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2021-06-20 02:07:33	Bocaneri	What's the target FS?
2021-06-20 02:07:38	davi_	are they all one big file right?
2021-06-20 02:07:38	angular_mike_	[[R]]: would it have any better means of handling this?
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2021-06-20 02:07:59	angular_mike_	akoana: I need root to run it, but I log in as non-root, where do I put it
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2021-06-20 02:08:06	[[R]]	angular_mike_: the login prompt doesnt have to depend on some other arndom thing starting
2021-06-20 02:08:16	FuriousGeorge	similarly, if i ls on the destination, or try to copy a file to it, that process hangs, and cannot be backgrounded....  yet the logs seem like everything is way cool
2021-06-20 02:08:25	[[R]]	angular_mike_: thats why ssytemd is the cats whiskers, yo ucan make it do ahtever you want
2021-06-20 02:08:26	 *	Bocaneri gives up
2021-06-20 02:08:33	angular_mike_	[[R]]: you sure?
2021-06-20 02:08:40	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-20 02:09:06	davi_	I would try just breaking the transfer to about 25 gb if they are all seperate
2021-06-20 02:09:18	angular_mike_	how is it set up with systemd?
2021-06-20 02:09:22	[[R]]	"it"?
2021-06-20 02:09:34	angular_mike_	ntpdate
2021-06-20 02:09:38	akoana	angular_mike_: no idea, I don't use openrc, but I guess openrc has service files...
2021-06-20 02:09:42	[[R]]	i dindt even realize ntpdate was still a thing
2021-06-20 02:09:43	davi_	My HDDs are slow too so i don't do big transfers in one go
2021-06-20 02:09:46	angular_mike_	automatic update of ntp time on boot
2021-06-20 02:09:53	angular_mike_	what do you use instead?
2021-06-20 02:10:08	[[R]]	systemd has a time daeamon
2021-06-20 02:10:10	[[R]]	takes care of all that
2021-06-20 02:10:18	davi_	I am using hexchat. was using Issrei but it refused connections
2021-06-20 02:10:42	angular_mike_	it runs update on boot and doesn't block?
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2021-06-20 02:10:44	Bocaneri	Probably SASL trouble, davi_
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2021-06-20 02:10:49	davi_	its whatever i don't need to look L33T HAXER
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2021-06-20 02:11:48	davi_	Atleast for now. Ever since i installed Debian i had all these new problems
2021-06-20 02:12:14	davi_	Came straight from Fedora and everything just worked
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2021-06-20 02:14:29	Bocaneri	My experience is the opposite.
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2021-06-20 02:16:09	davi_	The only reason i installed Debian because it was too much to keep up with fedoras releases
2021-06-20 02:16:57	davi_	And Dnf package manager felt kinda slow
2021-06-20 02:17:19	Two_Dogs	davi_, pls share more of your fedora horror stories
2021-06-20 02:17:22	Two_Dogs	:)
2021-06-20 02:17:42	davi_	SystemCtl
2021-06-20 02:17:51	samian	anyone recommend an alternative to dropbox? I'm looking at Google Drive, but it doesn't support linux :-(
2021-06-20 02:17:57	davi_	bam *micdrops
2021-06-20 02:18:29	pnbeast	When I installed Fedora, my pickup truck broke, my wife ran off with the bartender and my dog died.  No, wait, that was when I put the country music station on the radio by mistake.
2021-06-20 02:18:33	tango_uniform_xr	samian `rclone` does support gdrive, as well as a lot of other stuff
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2021-06-20 02:19:16	samian	rclone? I just googled and first search result says it's a command line tool?
2021-06-20 02:19:19	samian	wuh?
2021-06-20 02:19:29	davi_	Honestly i should be on my slackware machine using fluxbox but i am feeling really loafy as of late
2021-06-20 02:19:31	Bocaneri	Two_Dogs, "please", not "pls".
2021-06-20 02:19:32	Two_Dogs	samian, gdrive via dolphin(kde) works fine, i bet others work also
2021-06-20 02:20:05	Two_Dogs	Bocaneri, ? i dont understand
2021-06-20 02:20:21	Bocaneri	Two_Dogs, use full English. Example, "please", not "pls".
2021-06-20 02:20:29	Two_Dogs	Bocaneri, ahh
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2021-06-20 02:20:55	samian	cool
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2021-06-20 02:21:33	curdlesnoot	angular_mike_: use chronyd instead
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2021-06-20 02:23:17	Two_Dogs	i have heard nothing but good things about dnf
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2021-06-20 02:25:07	samian	Two_Dogs,  I have a file browser called Dolphin that I have installed on my Ubuntu 20.04 box. Is that the same program you're talking about?
2021-06-20 02:25:53	Two_Dogs	samian, yes if it is a kde plasma dolphin
2021-06-20 02:27:04	samian	Two_Dogs,  this is what I see: https://imgur.com/a/voOOWgo
2021-06-20 02:27:18	samian	btw anyone know of an alternative to imgur? The 20 sec ad waits are killing me
2021-06-20 02:27:44	Two_Dogs	samian, yeap, that is dolphin
2021-06-20 02:27:57	samian	sweet
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2021-06-20 02:28:04	samian	so it's a plugin I need to download?
2021-06-20 02:28:34	Bocaneri	samian, I've kinda been in and out. What are you trying to do?
2021-06-20 02:28:50	Bocaneri	And what DE are you using?
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2021-06-20 02:29:25	Two_Dogs	samian, http://susepaste.org <-- works without ads
2021-06-20 02:29:28	curdlesnoot	samian: 0x0.st
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2021-06-20 02:34:49	Two_Dogs	samian, https://community.kde.org/KIO_GDrive yes, a kio in plasma speak
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2021-06-20 02:50:10	twainwek	i have created a socks server to another machine and i can resolve 192.168.1.xxx locally.... but not 192.168.2.xxx
2021-06-20 02:50:22	twainwek	why is that
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2021-06-20 02:54:45	Bocaneri	twainwek, is there a #networking channel on this net? It's OK to ask that here, but I don't know, and we seem to be mostly sleeping.
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2021-06-20 02:55:13	hell_fire	Bocaneri: mostly offline
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2021-06-20 02:56:57	Bocaneri	There is, #networking, about 600 people, probably all sleeping it off.
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2021-06-20 04:05:42	AndroidDAW	how do i compile harfbuzz and freetype with support for harfbuzz?
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2021-06-20 04:06:36	AndroidDAW	how do i compile harfbuzz and freetype with support for harfbuzz? as i get undefined symbol _hb_ft_font_create when linking freetype and harfbuzz
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2021-06-20 04:07:51	Bocaneri	On what distro are you doing this compiling, with what languages and/or other toolsets, and what is harfbuzz?
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2021-06-20 04:09:04	AndroidDAW	https://github.com/mgood7123/freetype-cmake
2021-06-20 04:09:18	AndroidDAW	Bocaneri: im building on bsd mac os
2021-06-20 04:09:44	AndroidDAW	but i plan to build on linux and other platforms too
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2021-06-20 04:12:23	Bocaneri	I don't know a damn thing about any of the BSDs.
2021-06-20 04:13:15	AndroidDAW	im building both freetype and harffbuz from source
2021-06-20 04:13:19	AndroidDAW	harfbuzz
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2021-06-20 04:16:29	AndroidDAW	https://github.com/mgood7123/freetype-cmake how do i compile harfbuzz and freetype with support for harfbuzz? as i get undefined symbol _hb_ft_font_create when linking freetype and harfbuzz https://gist.github.com/mgood7123/0eb35c3575f9cfbcc4afcef1fc4e642a
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2021-06-20 04:19:41	Bocaneri	AndroidDAW, while you're trying to get it built on one of the BSDs, you probably want to try to ask that in one of the BSD-oriented channels.
2021-06-20 04:19:52	Bocaneri	Better yet, a Mac OS X channel.
2021-06-20 04:20:03	AndroidDAW	it makes no differenct
2021-06-20 04:20:21	AndroidDAW	the exact same problem would pop up on linux, windows, and android
2021-06-20 04:21:26	AndroidDAW	also how do you know what freetype is but not what harfbuzz is
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2021-06-20 04:22:08	PaulFertser	AndroidDAW: getting undefined symbol linker error suggests you're not using pkg-config to get ldflags.
2021-06-20 04:22:12	AndroidDAW	harfbuzz is a text shaping library
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2021-06-20 04:23:20	AndroidDAW	PaulFertser: would it be related to this?
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2021-06-20 04:23:38	AndroidDAW	https://gist.github.com/mgood7123/0eb35c3575f9cfbcc4afcef1fc4e642a#file-gistfile1-txt-L62
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2021-06-20 04:25:45	PaulFertser	AndroidDAW: might be, might be not. You should start make V=1 to see the compiler and linker command lines and there you'll see -I options for include pathes and -L for library pathes. The linker error is related to bad (or missing) -L options.
2021-06-20 04:26:13	AndroidDAW	ok
2021-06-20 04:26:40	AndroidDAW	also _hb_ft_font_create is located in harfbuzz/src/hb-ft.cc
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2021-06-20 04:27:08	-->	cadmio (~gidna@151.25.147.48) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 04:27:12	cadmio	Hello
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2021-06-20 04:27:21	cadmio	I need a pdf reader that allows me to write on a pdf
2021-06-20 04:27:31	cadmio	like drawing on it
2021-06-20 04:27:38	-->	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 04:27:41	ppetrov^	MasterPDFEditor?
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2021-06-20 04:27:55	ppetrov^	maybe GIMP can do that, too
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2021-06-20 04:28:59	cadmio	but you can't open a large pdf file with GIMP
2021-06-20 04:29:03	PaulFertser	AndroidDAW: the error happens at the linking stage, so the particular source code file doesn't matter much. BTW, it can also happen due to lack of -l option that tells the linker this library should be used.
2021-06-20 04:29:10	ppetrov^	cadmio, true
2021-06-20 04:29:39	ppetrov^	try MasterPDFEditor, but the full featured version of the program is paid
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2021-06-20 04:30:38	cadmio	isn't there a GNU program for the task=
2021-06-20 04:30:40	cadmio	?
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2021-06-20 04:36:18	ppetrov^	not that i know of
2021-06-20 04:36:45	ppetrov^	for a single page PDF, I sometimes use Inkscape
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2021-06-20 04:37:33	cadmio	I need just a pen to make some sings
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2021-06-20 04:52:54	akik	cadmio: okular can add drawing on a pdf
2021-06-20 04:53:26	cadmio	akik: thanks I'm gonna try it
2021-06-20 04:53:57	akik	also notes/highlights
2021-06-20 04:54:22	cadmio	I just need to mark with a sign
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2021-06-20 05:00:18	topoi	Dagmar: Sorry, I fell asleep. You wrote (at 03:14) I should use the ssh client on the server (S) to connect to the client (C) in order to not tunnel anything (which is 0.0.0.0). I still don't get how to accomplish this simple thing as I must connect from C to S.
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2021-06-20 05:03:00	topoi	Moreover I don't understand why it's problematic to try to bind some port to localhost when connecting from (C) to (S) that is using ("-R 127.0.0.1:1234:127.0.0.1:1234"), shouldn't it just tunnel then to the already open ssh channel?
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2021-06-20 05:04:58	gtlsgamr	To those who have don't have a live IP provided by their ISP, what is a "free" service to tunnel ports, if you use any?
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2021-06-20 05:12:44	cadmio	I get these errors when installing okular https://paste.debian.net/1201812/
2021-06-20 05:13:14	hexnewbie	Well, secure boot support in arm64 removed from Debian
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2021-06-20 05:13:45	gtlsgamr	cadmio: did you try the provided solution? E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
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2021-06-20 05:14:18	cadmio	yes https://paste.debian.net/1201813/
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2021-06-20 05:17:19	gtlsgamr	cadmio: What is your device and OS?
2021-06-20 05:17:19	akik	cadmio: apt-get update and try again
2021-06-20 05:18:35	Bocaneri	do an apt-get update and then an apt-get upgrade and THEN try again.
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2021-06-20 05:19:55	cadmio	I'm on debian
2021-06-20 05:20:31	gtlsgamr	cadmio: try what Bocaneri said
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2021-06-20 05:20:57	cadmio	I wouldn't like to upgrade at the moment
2021-06-20 05:21:29	akik	cadmio: apt-get update updates your package manager database for available files
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2021-06-20 05:24:48	midansys	cadmio: it would probably fix the problem
2021-06-20 05:25:07	cadmio	I've run the command
2021-06-20 05:25:45	gtlsgamr	cadmio: try now
2021-06-20 05:26:02	Bocaneri	cadmio, it's not a major point release upgrade. It just means to install the latest of everything you've got installed from repos for your version of whatever you're running.
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2021-06-20 05:31:21	kubast2	Hey how can I setup xrandr custom resolution for DP-1 output
2021-06-20 05:31:26	kubast2	it keeps getting applied to DVI-D-1
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2021-06-20 05:32:01	kubast2	"X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)"
2021-06-20 05:32:06	kubast2	https://dpaste.com/CGDJ5EBDA.txt
2021-06-20 05:33:07	kubast2	Hi the problem is probably the propriatary nvidia driver it has a check if modes match some monitor charateristics
2021-06-20 05:33:11	kubast2	I hope nvidia dies as a company
2021-06-20 05:33:17	kubast2	Option "ModeValidation"
2021-06-20 05:33:25	kubast2	still fuck them for putting this as default
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2021-06-20 05:34:16	kubast2	if this means I need to go upstairs to this heatstroke enducing upstairs room to set remote desktop resoluton to this old laptop screen
2021-06-20 05:34:23	kubast2	I will be pissed
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2021-06-20 05:37:37	schillingklaus	may nouveau be used instead of the capitalist-inperialist nvidia driver?
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2021-06-20 05:38:44	Kyv	Not likely. But he probably didnt read too hard, either.
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2021-06-20 05:40:38	Kyv	That is something for xorg.conf..
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2021-06-20 05:47:43	ZAJDAN	command 'ntpdate' is based on package ntp ?
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2021-06-20 05:49:39	lopid	usually
2021-06-20 05:50:32	ZAJDAN	ok..I am confuse because package ntpdate exist also
2021-06-20 05:50:41	lopid	then maybe it's that
2021-06-20 05:51:49	midansys	you can install ntpdate with just the ntpdate package
2021-06-20 05:51:57	Lartza	Because some distros split programs like that
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2021-06-20 05:52:34	ZAJDAN	I checked my server and package ntpdate is not installed, so the command 'ntpdate' have to be related on package ntp
2021-06-20 05:52:43	Lartza	On some distros it is yes
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2021-06-20 05:52:56	Lartza	You are on #linux we have no idea about your packages
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2021-06-20 05:55:40	RayTracer	the package manager maybe tells you from wich package the binary was installed
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2021-06-20 05:56:03	RayTracer	eg. rpm -qf /bin/bash
2021-06-20 05:56:18	RayTracer	or dpkg -S /bin/bash
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2021-06-20 06:00:02	ZAJDAN	RayTracer: excelent! this revealed from where it came....thank YOu
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2021-06-20 06:00:42	ZAJDAN	in my case command 'ntpdate' is from package ntp
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2021-06-20 06:18:46	AndroidDAW	if a .so is linked with a .a will that .so have all symbols of .a
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2021-06-20 06:20:26	arash	Hello, what is the difference between \r and \n ?
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2021-06-20 06:25:00	PaulFertser	arash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_return vs newline
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2021-06-20 06:39:11	velix	I want to restrict a user using apparmor. Is pam_apparmor the right way for this?
2021-06-20 06:39:14	FuriousGeorge	one is new line one is carriage return, o?
2021-06-20 06:39:15	FuriousGeorge	no?
2021-06-20 06:40:22	FuriousGeorge	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10059142/reading-r-carriage-return-vs-n-newline-from-console-with-getc/10059171#:~:text=%5Cn%20is%20the%20newline%20character,the%20enter%20key%20was%20pressed.
2021-06-20 06:40:52	FuriousGeorge	i just did something silly.  i was rsyncing large files, and later i deleted the source well before they finished.  no big deal in terms of the data
2021-06-20 06:41:07	FuriousGeorge	but the file transfers are happily chugging along
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2021-06-20 06:41:30	FuriousGeorge	im figuring that as long as i don't write a bunch of files to the disk, it might be ok
2021-06-20 06:41:34	schillingklaus	I boycott apparmour rigorously at any cost
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2021-06-20 06:43:18	FuriousGeorge	s/files/data
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2021-06-20 06:43:48	HumbleGuy	guys
2021-06-20 06:43:58	HumbleGuy	how do i add discord repository on debian?
2021-06-20 06:44:08	HumbleGuy	what is the repository in sources.list
2021-06-20 06:44:36	jim	there's a repo add thing
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2021-06-20 06:44:49	jim	or you could just edit the file
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2021-06-20 06:45:47	HumbleGuy	well what is the name of the repo
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2021-06-20 06:45:53	HumbleGuy	jim,
2021-06-20 06:45:54	-->	xoxoxoxo (uid209547@id-209547.charlton.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 06:46:14	xoxoxoxo	slack linux best linux
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2021-06-20 06:47:04	jim	let's back up a sec
2021-06-20 06:47:26	jim	I'm guessing you want to install the discord client :)
2021-06-20 06:47:38	xoxoxoxo	jim, the inventor of Debian?
2021-06-20 06:47:52	jim	not mee
2021-06-20 06:48:00	xoxoxoxo	so humble
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2021-06-20 06:48:09	xoxoxoxo	so kind
2021-06-20 06:48:29	xoxoxoxo	Thank you
2021-06-20 06:48:29	schillingklaus	Jim is the famous Jim in "According to Jim"
2021-06-20 06:49:03	Bocaneri	Debian was invented, if I recall properly, by somebody named Ian. He's the "ian" in Debian.
2021-06-20 06:49:06	jim	yeah, I'm not rreally on topic here :)
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2021-06-20 06:49:33	HumbleGuy	jim, yes i want to install discrod using apt
2021-06-20 06:49:38	HumbleGuy	not dpkg
2021-06-20 06:49:52	HumbleGuy	but ifrst i have to add the repo sources.list
2021-06-20 06:50:48	jim	do you have the address of that repo?
2021-06-20 06:51:01	lautre[m]	And you think apt don't use dpkg?
2021-06-20 06:51:42	jim	it no longer does, apt-get did, I think, and that was just a test of the apt libs that exploded in popularity
2021-06-20 06:51:45	lautre[m]	Of course, if you have the depots to add in the sources-list, it's better
2021-06-20 06:52:09	 *	lautre[m] use aptitude
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2021-06-20 06:56:50	patthoyts	FuriousGeorge: you unlinked the source file. As long as the process continues running and has the file open, there is still a link so the file is present still. Once all links are gone the filesystem can recover the inodes. You can probably un-delete it from the entries in proc for the running process.
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2021-06-20 07:01:45	jim	HumbleGuy, just found a .deb, not an aptable repo
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2021-06-20 07:03:22	FuriousGeorge	patthoyts:  thanks, that's interesting about undeleting inodes in proc  ln -L /proc/<pid>/fd/<handle> /path/to/deleted/file
2021-06-20 07:03:22	FuriousGeorge	is enough to relink a deleted file.
2021-06-20 07:03:40	FuriousGeorge	https://serverfault.com/questions/168909/relinking-a-deleted-file
2021-06-20 07:03:58	FuriousGeorge	i just discovered /proc/(pid)/fd/1 the other day
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2021-06-20 07:05:22	patthoyts	FuriousGeorge: that's it.
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2021-06-20 07:05:36	cousin_luigi	Greetings.
2021-06-20 07:05:52	cousin_luigi	Know of any ebook reader that runs or can run linux?
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2021-06-20 07:08:01	FuriousGeorge	in /proc/<pid>/fd/<handle> what does handle look like?
2021-06-20 07:08:19	FuriousGeorge	i have the fd nodes, - through 5
2021-06-20 07:08:25	FuriousGeorge	0 through 5
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2021-06-20 07:13:00	jim	HumbleGuy, https://linuxconfig.org/install-the-discord-on-debian-9-stretch-linux
2021-06-20 07:13:22	HumbleGuy	jim, thanks
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2021-06-20 07:14:40	jim	HumbleGuy, so it's not in an aptable repo (so the assumption would be, they never made one to put the pkg in)
2021-06-20 07:15:16	jim	HumbleGuy, there's no difference betwenn the install process either way
2021-06-20 07:16:13	jim	HumbleGuy, you know that you can use discord with a web browser?
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2021-06-20 07:16:25	tango_uniform_xr	it has stuff to update itself anyway
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2021-06-20 07:16:35	tango_uniform_xr	i never saw an actual repo for discord, not an official one anyway
2021-06-20 07:17:00	Junglist	cousin_luigi, calibre (ebook management software) has an integrated e-book reader, no idea whether there are any better options out there
2021-06-20 07:17:20	cousin_luigi	Junglist: ?
2021-06-20 07:17:26	cousin_luigi	Junglist: I'm looking for hardware.
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2021-06-20 07:18:32	p0g0	cousin_luigi, there are howtos about reflashing tablets w/ linux. ymmv.
2021-06-20 07:19:00	cousin_luigi	p0g0: I was looking for an e-ink reader:/
2021-06-20 07:19:10	Kyv	you cannot in good conscience recommend calibre
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2021-06-20 07:19:24	HumbleGuy	jim, yeah i know but it lacks some feature the app has
2021-06-20 07:19:25	 *	cousin_luigi uses okular on his desktop
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2021-06-20 07:20:47	jim	cousin_luigi, do you mean you want an ebook reader that runs linux? or?
2021-06-20 07:20:59	Kyv	I believe you've got it.
2021-06-20 07:21:08	cousin_luigi	jim: Or that it can be modified to run it.
2021-06-20 07:22:10	jim	you may or may not lose the "ebook reading" part of it by modifying it in that way
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2021-06-20 07:25:04	cousin_luigi	I suppose a tablet is my best option.
2021-06-20 07:25:40	petrj	as opposed to .. syrup?
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2021-06-20 07:26:07	rcm888	origins of word Federal?
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2021-06-20 07:26:40	cousin_luigi	Foederatus?
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2021-06-20 07:27:04	p0g0	fetid
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2021-06-20 07:27:12	HumbleGuy	is there a list of repositories for debian? i feel like its too little repositories. In ubuntu there is a lot more
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2021-06-20 07:29:03	rcm888	cousin_luigi: fidel? fidelity?
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2021-06-20 07:30:04	cousin_luigi	rcm888: Allied, from what I remember. Unsure if it shares the root with fidelitas.
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2021-06-20 07:30:57	schillingklaus	as long as it does not derive from fat&oral...
2021-06-20 07:30:58	rcm888	cousin_luigi: federo? = 3rd party to trust.
2021-06-20 07:31:14	jim	HumbleGuy, thing is, you can't tell how stable the software AND packaging of .debs in a non-official debian repo is... this is a place where you need to be very careful
2021-06-20 07:31:33	jim	maybe the best way to do that is to back up your entire system
2021-06-20 07:31:43	cousin_luigi	rcm888: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=federal let's cut the guesswork
2021-06-20 07:32:02	rcm888	schillingklaus: no, all those "etymology" sites are terribly wrong. because there are Federation, Federal, Fidel, High Fidelity. root is fede, federo = trust
2021-06-20 07:32:18	rcm888	cousin_luigi: ^
2021-06-20 07:33:08	rcm888	I just want to find the document that says it. I saw it before but now it lost among the other trash in internet.
2021-06-20 07:33:10	cousin_luigi	rcm888: I'm not sure how that makes them wrong.
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2021-06-20 07:33:47	cousin_luigi	Foedus could very well be related to fides.
2021-06-20 07:34:34	cousin_luigi	rcm888: And you will, at best, find qualified opinions. There isn't an official history of words, you know.
2021-06-20 07:34:38	rcm888	cousin_luigi: foedus is does not have "feder", federo does.
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2021-06-20 07:34:56	cousin_luigi	rcm888: foedus, genitive foederis
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2021-06-20 07:35:31	cousin_luigi	But I suspect we might be on the wrong channel.
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2021-06-20 07:36:33	rcm888	cousin_luigi: but that does not give formal juridical description.
2021-06-20 07:36:51	cousin_luigi	rcm888: Juridical? What are you on about?
2021-06-20 07:37:19	schillingklaus	the unholy federation of IBM and RedHat
2021-06-20 07:37:28	cousin_luigi	If you are looking for a notarised document, don't bother.
2021-06-20 07:37:31	rcm888	cousin_luigi: 3rd party to trust.
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2021-06-20 07:38:06	xoxoxoxo	What's wrong with trusted third parties? The more the merrier!
2021-06-20 07:38:10	rcm888	Federal government = 3rd party among States to trust of common goals ad deeds.
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2021-06-20 07:39:16	cousin_luigi	Ever heard of semantic shift?
2021-06-20 07:39:46	schillingklaus	the shift from mario to luigi
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2021-06-20 07:48:17	sozuba	!paste
2021-06-20 07:48:45	sozuba	pastebin
2021-06-20 07:49:03	sozuba	hmm, may be not in this channel, i am so confused :D
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2021-06-20 07:53:05	midansys	interested in setting up a backup and recovery schedule, how do you guys keep your data backed-up?
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2021-06-20 07:54:41	colo	I push daily into an append-only restic repository.
2021-06-20 07:55:19	jim	HumbleGuy, one thing, after you make a first attempt to install the .deb, you might come up with dependency errors, usually those errors are solvable using: apt -f install
2021-06-20 07:55:44	HumbleGuy	got it
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2021-06-20 07:56:16	jim	run that, it would pick up needed packages
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2021-06-20 07:56:40	midansys	colo: where is your repo located?
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2021-06-20 08:01:10	HumbleGuy	quick question,  i have cinnaom debian, but the menu bar isnt showung up in termial
2021-06-20 08:01:30	HumbleGuy	when i right click, there isnt such option as showing up
2021-06-20 08:01:34	HumbleGuy	the menu bar
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2021-06-20 08:03:31	jim	HumbleGuy, could it be your window manager crashed?
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2021-06-20 08:23:36	VMGuy234	How do I get my X keyboard layout to stay between sessions?
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2021-06-20 08:26:42	Kyv	put the (setxkbmap) commands or source local ~/.Xmodmap file in startup script
2021-06-20 08:28:00	Kyv	or a keyboard subsection in xorg.conf
2021-06-20 08:29:12	jim	do you try to change your layout?
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2021-06-20 08:31:23	VMGuy234	I use setxkbmap but it resets every session
2021-06-20 08:31:46	Kyv	that is why you put it in your startup script
2021-06-20 08:32:04	Kyv	jim were you asking me?
2021-06-20 08:32:11	jim	do you use that to pick an existing map, or do you change individual keys?
2021-06-20 08:32:24	jim	well VMGuy23
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2021-06-20 08:32:28	--	job is now known as cyndaquil
2021-06-20 08:32:31	VMGuy234	localectl worked, just checking if  permanent
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2021-06-20 08:32:55	jim	all gone...
2021-06-20 08:32:57	-->	snalty (~Shhh@user/snalty) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 08:33:17	hodapp	+
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2021-06-20 08:34:17	hodapp	...I blame my cat
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2021-06-20 08:35:01	Kyv	localectl changes your keyboard layout?
2021-06-20 08:35:15	VMGuy234	localectl set-layout uk i think
2021-06-20 08:35:22	VMGuy234	it worked and stays after reboot
2021-06-20 08:35:45	VMGuy234	it was set-keymap not set-layout
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2021-06-20 08:40:07	sozuba	Windows10 runs faster through qemu on Linux than barebone on my laptop. May be i am dreaming or misevaluating, but this is what i have seena few times.
2021-06-20 08:40:33	kilitary	what a shit i see
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2021-06-20 08:40:57	 *	kilitary calling ban god
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2021-06-20 08:43:00	sozuba	kilitary, why?
2021-06-20 08:43:11	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 08:43:34	kilitary	why i should know?
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2021-06-20 08:54:14	sozuba	kilitary, jnow what?
2021-06-20 08:54:17	sozuba	know*
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2021-06-20 08:54:44	HumbleGuy	best termial emulator for debian?
2021-06-20 08:55:29	Kyv	urxvt is good
2021-06-20 08:57:00	Kyv	if you are on that old system you mentioned the other day, it can be run as a daemon and save some considerable RAM
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2021-06-20 08:59:27	xx	best terminal emulator that runs on wayland and does not use gpu acceleration?
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2021-06-20 09:00:41	Dagmar	Exactly how much GPU accelleration do you think a cell-based text display is really going to be using?
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2021-06-20 09:00:48	Dagmar	Try xterm.
2021-06-20 09:01:32	Kyv	there is at least one or two that sell themselves largely on that
2021-06-20 09:02:00	Kyv	hell if I know about the Wayland side of things, I'd rather not
2021-06-20 09:02:04	Kyv	I think there's one called foot
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2021-06-20 09:04:02	hkm	Hi
2021-06-20 09:04:07	hendrix	debends how you define best. I like kitty
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2021-06-20 09:05:15	hkm	What's a more effective way to get nth character of a string then  `printf "$str" | cut -b "$n"` using POSIX sh
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2021-06-20 09:14:49	euouae	Hello how to add the XDG bin directories to $PATH?
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2021-06-20 09:15:52	euouae	What bothers me is that I have ~/.local/bin listed twice in my $PATH and I don't know why
2021-06-20 09:16:15	BluesKaj	Hi all
2021-06-20 09:16:16	hkm	euouae, you could just edit your PATH
2021-06-20 09:16:21	TJ-	hkm: in bash, ${str:N:1}
2021-06-20 09:16:27	euouae	hkm: What are the best practices for doing so?
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2021-06-20 09:16:47	hkm	asked for POSIX sh TJ-
2021-06-20 09:17:23	euouae	hkm: I read somewhere that PATH=/foo:$PATH is not the best way to do it, instead to have it explicit as PATH=/foo:/bin:etc...
2021-06-20 09:17:42	hkm	oh i see what you mean
2021-06-20 09:18:03	hkm	ok so  PATH=/foo:$PATH is used when /foo is not already in path but you wish to add it
2021-06-20 09:19:02	hkm	PATH=/foo:/bin... is used when you want to assign the values for PATH from scratch. As you can see ':' is used as a separator for each directory
2021-06-20 09:19:18	hkm	So basically let's assume PATH contains /abcd
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2021-06-20 09:19:36	hkm	PATH=/foo:$PATH is equivalent to PATH=/foo:/abcd
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2021-06-20 09:19:52	hkm	euouae
2021-06-20 09:19:54	euouae	I see
2021-06-20 09:20:25	hkm	cool
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2021-06-20 09:20:53	euouae	Nice, thanks :)
2021-06-20 09:21:09	hkm	is #linux more dead than it used to be on freenode? does anyone know?
2021-06-20 09:21:31	-->	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 09:21:41	euouae	I think activity is down overall
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2021-06-20 09:22:11	m1dansys	why?
2021-06-20 09:22:16	Pentode	hkm: many channels are leaving freenode
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2021-06-20 09:22:38	AiwendilH	probably easier to ask the other way around Pentode
2021-06-20 09:22:57	Pentode	changes in management and some other stuff that many disagree with, apparently. not sure about the details.
2021-06-20 09:23:07	Pentode	a lot of operators quit, too
2021-06-20 09:23:44	AiwendilH	seems reactos stays on freenode (but irc is not their main chat in the first palce), techrights stays...
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2021-06-20 09:25:40	hkm	euouae `env | grep XDG` shows some XDG variables you might find useful to assign to PATH
2021-06-20 09:26:03	euouae	Well, no reason to chastise those who chose to stay
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2021-06-20 09:26:23	euouae	hkm: oh nice! my setup doesn't list any of the ones I want, so I'd need a conditional and using the default values if so
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2021-06-20 09:26:45	euouae	hkm: any way to catch how my path contains duplicates? I don't see who adds to it
2021-06-20 09:27:10	hkm	there were super based dudes like hexnewbie and c705. I wonder what they're up to :(
2021-06-20 09:27:35	hkm	euouae 1 sec
2021-06-20 09:27:40	phogg	hkm: careful, if you say they're names they might appear
2021-06-20 09:27:51	hkm	omg you're legendary too
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2021-06-20 09:28:18	rascul	what does it mean to be based?
2021-06-20 09:28:27	hkm	euouae `grep 'PATH=' .bashrc` what does this display?
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2021-06-20 09:28:30	phogg	rascul: I wondered that, too.
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2021-06-20 09:28:55	HumbleGuy	is it a good idea to add ubuntu repositories to debian in sources.list?
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2021-06-20 09:29:01	phogg	HumbleGuy: no
2021-06-20 09:29:05	rascul	HumbleGuy generally no
2021-06-20 09:29:16	hkm	based is a term kids use nowadays that means red pilled, which means grounded i guess
2021-06-20 09:29:25	hkm	true to reality
2021-06-20 09:29:28	TJ-	hkm: oh yeah, how about "expr substr $str N 1"
2021-06-20 09:29:32	euouae	it's also popular in extremist circles hkm
2021-06-20 09:29:34	euouae	I'd avoid the term
2021-06-20 09:29:36	phogg	HumbleGuy: it is absolutely not supported. You can *sometimes* get away with mixing in some combinations, but it should be done only if absolutely necessary for some specific purpose (and for as little time as possible)
2021-06-20 09:29:51	euouae	At least, I'd refrain from using it when talking to people that don't know me
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2021-06-20 09:30:17	hkm	TJ- oh cool thanks
2021-06-20 09:30:30	phogg	HumbleGuy: in some cases a "for ubuntu" source provides a .deb with very generic dependencies that actually work just fine for some Debian releases. Third parties have been known to do this. But for *official* ubuntu repos you should never.
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2021-06-20 09:31:10	euouae	hkm: .bashrc and .profile do not list PATH
2021-06-20 09:31:38	phogg	euouae: in that case it's likely set in /etc/
2021-06-20 09:31:53	hkm	hmm are there any startup scripts you run other than those, maybe run via a cronjob? euouae
2021-06-20 09:31:57	HumbleGuy	phogg, but what do i do then? debian provides very little repositories, i can't download packages i want
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2021-06-20 09:32:06	HumbleGuy	that i could download in ubuntu
2021-06-20 09:32:12	phogg	hkm: for bash only .bash_profile, and only in some circumstances
2021-06-20 09:32:29	phogg	HumbleGuy: packages such as what?
2021-06-20 09:32:36	rascul	HumbleGuy what are some of the packages you want that ubuntu has but not debian?
2021-06-20 09:32:38	hkm	What do you mean 'in some circumstances'
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2021-06-20 09:33:07	phogg	HumbleGuy: you should put in a request for packaging, package it yourself, install a .deb by hand, install a non-.deb package into /usr/local, or compile from source
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2021-06-20 09:33:42	phogg	hkm: LESS=+/^INVOCATION man bash
2021-06-20 09:33:48	euouae	phogg: nice, I Found it in /etc/skel. What is that?
2021-06-20 09:33:58	phogg	euouae: not important for your case
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2021-06-20 09:34:14	phogg	euouae: all files in /etc/skel/ are copied to a user's home directory when the user is created
2021-06-20 09:34:16	rascul	/etc/skel is copied to a new user's home directory upon creation
2021-06-20 09:34:26	rascul	too slow :(
2021-06-20 09:34:41	phogg	euouae: that represents you likely *initial* home dir state, it has no impact on run time behavior after that
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2021-06-20 09:35:09	euouae	phogg: Ok but that is the only one listing ~/.local/bin. Maybe I need to restart my comptuter
2021-06-20 09:35:19	phogg	euouae: rebooting never fixed anything
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2021-06-20 09:35:28	 *	rascul reboots phogg
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2021-06-20 09:35:34	phogg	euouae: it will not alter the state of your system, therefore your system will behave the same after rebooting
2021-06-20 09:35:40	euouae	rebooting fixing things is inversely proportional to ones knowledge
2021-06-20 09:35:43	hkm	phogg where are the other legends :/
2021-06-20 09:35:46	 *	phogg is unable to find root, panics
2021-06-20 09:35:50	euouae	It's kinda like magic, if you believe in it phogg , it works
2021-06-20 09:35:57	phogg	hkm: everyone from freenode is here, more or less
2021-06-20 09:35:59	rascul	shell startup file changes will be reflected upon a new shell instance
2021-06-20 09:36:08	hkm	oh thank god :)
2021-06-20 09:36:10	rascul	depending on what changed, it may require a new login shell
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2021-06-20 09:36:10	phogg	euouae: There is **NO** magic. Everything is deterministic.
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2021-06-20 09:36:19	euouae	what a debbie downer
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2021-06-20 09:36:37	phogg	euouae: It's not a downer. It means everything can be understood and controlled. Doesn't that excite you?
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2021-06-20 09:36:48	 *	euouae sprinkles some fairy dust over .profile
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2021-06-20 09:36:50	hkm	euouae do you use any other interactive shells besides bash?
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2021-06-20 09:37:01	phogg	euouae: your PATH is most likely set in /etc/profile or /etc/profile.d/* somewhere (distros vary)
2021-06-20 09:37:07	euouae	phogg: it user to excite me 15 years ago
2021-06-20 09:37:19	euouae	phogg: nowadays I'm content with how stupid I am in comparison to how complex computers are
2021-06-20 09:37:23	rascul	there also might be something like /etc/bash.bashrc
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2021-06-20 09:38:09	euouae	hkm: I think I only use bash
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2021-06-20 09:38:17	phogg	/etc/bash.bashrc isn't sourced automatically, as far as I know
2021-06-20 09:38:29	phogg	only as a side effect of other automatically-sourced files
2021-06-20 09:38:38	rascul	it might be sourced from /etc/profile
2021-06-20 09:38:51	phogg	yes.
2021-06-20 09:39:14	phogg	it is certainly *inappropriate* to alter PATH in global bashrc, though, because you pretty much never want bash-specific programs in PATH
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2021-06-20 09:39:50	phogg	euouae: I missed the start of this conversation. What problem are you having?
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2021-06-20 09:40:47	hkm	he has duplicate dirs in his PATH and wants to learn how they got assigned to PATH phogg
2021-06-20 09:41:06	euouae	phogg: I fixed my important issue (thanks to hkm!) I'm having a duplicate ~/.local/bin entry in my PATH, that's the only thing bothering me
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2021-06-20 09:41:28	euouae	It's really minor, I'll probably move on
2021-06-20 09:41:33	AiwendilH	did you say what distro you use euouae? The distro mechanisms for adding directories to PATH differes between them
2021-06-20 09:41:35	phogg	euouae: start with: grep -R PATH= ~/.profile ~/.bashrc ~/.bash_profile /etc/profile* /etc/bash.bashrc
2021-06-20 09:41:49	esselfe	/etc/profile.d/* too
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2021-06-20 09:41:57	phogg	esselfe: I included it
2021-06-20 09:42:15	euouae	phogg: empty
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2021-06-20 09:42:21	phogg	some distros use a function (e.g. pathmunge) to modify PATH, so if that turns up nothing try again with just PATH not PATH=
2021-06-20 09:42:35	phogg	euouae: knowing your distro would indeed help
2021-06-20 09:42:39	euouae	Yup, it is empty with just PATH, I use Ubuntu AiwendilH
2021-06-20 09:42:42	euouae	20.04
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2021-06-20 09:43:06	phogg	euouae: I don't have experience with that version of Ubuntu, but I find that surprising as it deviates from Ubuntu's historical practice.
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2021-06-20 09:43:20	euouae	phogg: which is what?
2021-06-20 09:43:24	rascul	one of those should have turned up matches for PATH
2021-06-20 09:43:26	phogg	euouae: try again with grep -Ri PATH and the same files.
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2021-06-20 09:43:38	phogg	euouae: which is to set PATH to an initial static value in /etc/profile
2021-06-20 09:43:45	euouae	it's empty
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2021-06-20 09:43:51	euouae	oh wait I'm silly
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2021-06-20 09:44:01	TJ-	It's in /etc/environment
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2021-06-20 09:44:08	AiwendilH	"/etc/environment" maybe?
2021-06-20 09:44:13	AiwendilH	ah..too slow ;)
2021-06-20 09:44:18	phogg	it certainly should not be set by /etc/environment (very not correct behavior)
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2021-06-20 09:44:33	eqw	I want to place some liveCD.iso to the /boot partition of my remote system so some unskilled person could help in recovering system from console, or maybe it would be great to enable ssh-access by grub boot parameters. Any suggestions of such a live CD ?
2021-06-20 09:44:41	phogg	although I suppose there is an argument to be made fore non-shell users.
2021-06-20 09:44:51	euouae	Ok some hits from /etc/profile.d/gawk.sh regarding AWKPATH, some from /etc/profile.d/apps-bin-path.sh related to snap_bin_path and that's about it
2021-06-20 09:45:03	phogg	euouae: check /etc/environment as TJ- suggested?
2021-06-20 09:45:36	euouae	phogg: TJ- was right! It's there PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin"
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2021-06-20 09:45:37	TJ-	It's added to /etc/environment by libpam-modules
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2021-06-20 09:45:38	phogg	euouae: ultimately it must be ~/.profile or ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile or /etc/profile *or a file sourced by one of those files*, but that last part makes tracking it down complex.
2021-06-20 09:45:47	euouae	However, the ~/.local/bin path is not mentioned on /etc/profile
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2021-06-20 09:45:52	phogg	euouae: so that tyells you where the initial value is set, but that's no help
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2021-06-20 09:47:13	phogg	euouae: in your place I would start a brute force search for the string .local/bin in /etc and $HOME
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2021-06-20 09:47:36	phogg	euouae: or I would start tracing all mentions of "source" or "." as standalone words in known startup files
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2021-06-20 09:47:59	TJ-	pam_env reads /etc/environment
2021-06-20 09:48:02	euouae	grep -IR '.local/bin' /etc ~ works?
2021-06-20 09:48:23	rascul	'bash -x' or 'bash --login -x' could show something interesting
2021-06-20 09:48:26	phogg	euouae: yes, but you will potentially get lots of errors
2021-06-20 09:48:41	euouae	I think I need to escape .
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2021-06-20 09:49:29	AiwendilH	and maybe want to run this as root if as user it doesn't result in anything...pam config can also set PATH and I think it's usually not readable as user (but not sure)
2021-06-20 09:49:37	AiwendilH	but first without root of course ;)
2021-06-20 09:50:07	phogg	AiwendilH: any parent process can set PATH
2021-06-20 09:50:22	phogg	that would certainly include pam (from the point of login)
2021-06-20 09:50:23	euouae	wow this is absurd
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2021-06-20 09:50:28	euouae	I'm getting results from ~/.profile that I have already deleted
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2021-06-20 09:50:39	phogg	euouae: not as deleted as  you thought, then
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2021-06-20 09:50:57	euouae	I tried grep -IR '\.local/bin' /etc ~ 2> /dev/null and I got a hit from ~/.profile about it
2021-06-20 09:51:00	phogg	euouae: did you perhaps not save changes in your editor, or possibly another open editor re-saved the original afterwards?
2021-06-20 09:51:22	phogg	euouae: grep -IRF would obviate the need to escape the .
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2021-06-20 09:51:51	euouae	phogg: to me this is bizzare
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2021-06-20 09:52:24	euouae	phogg: grep -F '.local/bin' ~/.profile gives no results but grep -IR '\.local/bin' /etc ~ 2> /dev/null gives results for ~/.profile
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2021-06-20 09:53:21	phogg	euouae: that makes no sense since you are not searching ~ with the latter command
2021-06-20 09:53:25	AiwendilH	~/.profile or /etc/skel/.profile?
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2021-06-20 09:53:40	euouae	~/.profile!
2021-06-20 09:54:00	phogg	oh, I see you are mentioning ~ -- nevermind there
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2021-06-20 09:54:36	phogg	euouae: may I presume that these two commands are being run one after another from the same terminal session?
2021-06-20 09:54:43	phogg	and thus certainly from the same system in the same state?
2021-06-20 09:54:46	HumbleGuy	i installed xfce4 but dont see an xfce4 session at display manager
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2021-06-20 09:55:14	euouae	https://pastebin.com/djMWZA5t yes it's my home computer
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2021-06-20 09:57:49	AiwendilH	HumbleGuy: installed how? And got a session file for it in /usr/share/xsession?
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2021-06-20 09:58:24	AiwendilH	"/usr/share/xsessions"* (sorry)
2021-06-20 09:58:59	phogg	euouae: try typing the full path to your HOME instead of relying on ~? I know it should be the same, but when dealing with the impossible it's hard to know what to do
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2021-06-20 10:00:42	euouae	phogg: yeah it's still the same
2021-06-20 10:00:48	euouae	phogg: I bet you that this will be fixed if I reboot ;P
2021-06-20 10:01:00	phogg	euouae: I can't imagine how.
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2021-06-20 10:01:09	phogg	euouae: but you must of course suit yourself
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2021-06-20 10:02:04	euouae	phogg: aha! the result is actually from ~/.profile~ ... note the second ~
2021-06-20 10:02:14	euouae	phogg: it's an old backup version... ugh
2021-06-20 10:02:23	euouae	I'm sorry, I'm wasting y'all time
2021-06-20 10:02:25	phogg	euouae: yes, we are all blind
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2021-06-20 10:02:47	phogg	euouae: this fails to solve the problem you have, though. So that's cool.
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2021-06-20 10:03:20	euouae	yeah ..
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2021-06-20 10:21:41	fellipe	hi everyone, do anyone knows any free web ftp client except net2ftp?
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2021-06-20 10:24:34	euouae	fellipe: firefox plugin?
2021-06-20 10:25:00	fellipe	euouae no. I need to host this web ftp client on a web server
2021-06-20 10:25:27	fellipe	euouae I've tested net2ftp but it has bugs.
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2021-06-20 10:28:32	Romster	fellipe, bftpd not good enough?
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2021-06-20 10:29:04	Romster	not sure why you'd host a ftp client on a web site.
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2021-06-20 10:29:17	Romster	a server dishes out files.
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2021-06-20 10:29:39	fellipe	Romster I didn't know bftpd. But I've google it now and I've saw that it's a ftp server. I need a web ftp client
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2021-06-20 10:29:59	moo	for uploading?
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2021-06-20 10:30:25	Romster	are you trying to make a cpanel clone or something?
2021-06-20 10:31:00	fellipe	moo I need a web ftp client for my developers. they asked me to put some web ftp client on the air because it's easier for them to edit code files via web
2021-06-20 10:31:11	moo	oh god
2021-06-20 10:31:33	fellipe	Romster no no. Just trying to find a web ftp client
2021-06-20 10:31:50	fellipe	Romster I don't use cPanel
2021-06-20 10:31:57	PaulFertser	Why not use sshfs instead of the obsolete insecure FTP?
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2021-06-20 10:32:10	moo	his developers want to edit files via web and upload to ftp
2021-06-20 10:32:16	moo	i think you actually need new developers :P
2021-06-20 10:32:21	Romster	web developers... can they not use winscp?
2021-06-20 10:32:30	fellipe	moo heh
2021-06-20 10:32:34	moo	ones that know git or something lol
2021-06-20 10:32:39	moo	because its insane
2021-06-20 10:33:17	euouae	Yeah just use git
2021-06-20 10:33:22	PaulFertser	BTW, Emacs can edit files over FTP without any additional software.
2021-06-20 10:33:23	Romster	http://quixplorer.sourceforge.net/ ?
2021-06-20 10:33:26	fellipe	Romster sure they can use winscp. but they said it's boring to download the code file, edit and upload again. With web ftp client, the editing is on the fly
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2021-06-20 10:33:44	moo	this is why you need actual code repository wtf
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2021-06-20 10:34:01	moo	what if two want to edit same file? they schedule times in excel file hosted on dropbox?
2021-06-20 10:34:18	sheep	oh god why
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2021-06-20 10:34:24	PaulFertser	Seriously, what kind of developers they are? Must be pretty unorthodox I guess.
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2021-06-20 10:34:26	Romster	oh i see they want to do it on the site edit, they would be best with wordpress or something then.
2021-06-20 10:34:28	sheep	the standard workflow now is to just use git
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2021-06-20 10:34:43	fellipe	moo you are right. but they don't work on the same project
2021-06-20 10:34:45	sheep	unless maybe you are talking about the workflow for deploying changes to the site
2021-06-20 10:34:49	Romster	or some wiki editor
2021-06-20 10:35:21	bewees	if my cpu has the nx bit operational, then there's no additional benefit of having PaX patched kernel right?
2021-06-20 10:35:27	Romster	anyways looked at QuiXplorer - web-based file-management ?
2021-06-20 10:35:30	fellipe	I know the right thing is to use some repo or devops process, but they want to edit files on the fly heh
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2021-06-20 10:35:39	Romster	might be to old 2004 :/
2021-06-20 10:35:48	bewees	the idea for PaX was to be used for CPUs that don't support the nx bit then?
2021-06-20 10:36:10	fellipe	Romster I will take a look at quixplorer, thanks
2021-06-20 10:36:14	euouae	fellipe: also look at https://www.sitepoint.com/collaborative-coding-tools-for-remote-pair-programming/
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2021-06-20 10:36:29	Romster	back in the old days i used to do a form on a mysql database and i'd edit the code that way.
2021-06-20 10:36:31	moo	this thing will eventually explode and ruin your day you know :P
2021-06-20 10:36:39	Romster	that i coded the entire thing in php
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2021-06-20 10:36:54	Romster	i wouldn't do that again now through
2021-06-20 10:37:32	Romster	incremental atomic backups
2021-06-20 10:37:46	fellipe	Romster quixplorer isn't a web ftp client, right?
2021-06-20 10:37:55	fellipe	Romster I guess it won't fit
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2021-06-20 10:38:17	Romster	The latest version provides the following functionality: Editing text files
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2021-06-20 10:39:06	fellipe	Romster, they already edit files with extplorer, but because permissions issues, I need a ftp client ...
2021-06-20 10:39:17	fellipe	Romster extplorer uses apache permissions
2021-06-20 10:39:25	Romster	sorry that's the only idea i had
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2021-06-20 10:39:38	fellipe	Romster no problem, thanks a lot
2021-06-20 10:40:07	Romster	i would just use some virtual filesystem over ssh or webdav
2021-06-20 10:40:33	fellipe	Romster I think I don't know how to do it
2021-06-20 10:41:01	Romster	https://www.cloudwards.net/what-is-webdav/
2021-06-20 10:42:14	fellipe	I'll take a look
2021-06-20 10:42:17	Romster	https://linoxide.com/how-to-configure-and-enable-webdav-on-apache/
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2021-06-20 10:42:55	Romster	i just quickly searched for these they might prove useful or at least point you in the right direction
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2021-06-20 10:43:27	Romster	this is probably why you can't find a reliable ftp client in a website anymore.
2021-06-20 10:44:02	fellipe	Romster indeed. I've googled a lot already
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2021-06-20 10:44:27	fellipe	Romster monstaftp has a free version, but in free version there is no code editing support
2021-06-20 10:44:29	Romster	i haven't used webdav but i know of it.
2021-06-20 10:44:31	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 10:44:36	Romster	i use git for my stuff.
2021-06-20 10:44:45	Romster	and gitolite to push it
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2021-06-20 10:45:11	Romster	so i edit git commit then git push done.
2021-06-20 10:45:23	Romster	i can revert or what have you.
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2021-06-20 10:45:34	Romster	but that's a different work flow to what they are after.
2021-06-20 10:46:16	knull	can someone tell me what the downside is of using windows subsystem for linux (wsl) other than no gui
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2021-06-20 10:47:27	Romster	i know of that but not used it knull someone else maybe or maybe in #windows might know a bit. since it's part of windows
2021-06-20 10:47:40	knull	ok thanks Romster
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2021-06-20 10:48:52	Romster	ok i need sleep, afk
2021-06-20 10:49:02	DPA	In posix shell, I want, given some string containing parenthesis "a (b ((c d) e) f) g (h)", that each block is on it's own line, " a" "(b ((c d) e) f)" " g " "(h)". How do I do that?
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2021-06-20 10:50:10	bewees	WSL2 doesn't have an init system. To start services automatically you need to use bashrc
2021-06-20 10:50:44	TJ-	DPA: your example seems too arbitrary to be able to code that - how would code know that (c d) shouldn't be on a line on its own?
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2021-06-20 10:51:23	DPA	Because it's not the outermost parentesis.
2021-06-20 10:52:12	phogg	DPA: I recommend that you don't
2021-06-20 10:52:33	DPA	Add one for (, substract one for ), if it's 0, it needs it's own line. The problem is to do it in posix shell...
2021-06-20 10:52:50	phogg	DPA: it's easy, but a bad fit. Why do you insist on POSIX sh?
2021-06-20 10:53:25	c705	smells like an x, y problem
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2021-06-20 10:54:30	DPA	I want to generate some code in a script, but I don't want to require additional interpreters for that. I already use make, and by extension sh, but I don't use things like python yet in there.
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2021-06-20 10:55:30	phogg	DPA: people seem to have this allergy for just including a real language interpreter in their container. Just add perl, you'll be happier in the short AND long run
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2021-06-20 10:56:21	DPA	Perl? Isn't this a write only language?
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2021-06-20 10:58:29	phogg	DPA: no
2021-06-20 10:59:07	phogg	DPA: people make fun of perl, but it's powerful and compact. It's much less crazy than Python. But, if you want another option try awk. It's generally inferior, but has a smaller footprint--and a standard version
2021-06-20 10:59:22	phogg	certainly beats working in posix sh for no good reason
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2021-06-20 11:00:06	reduce	perl used to be the interpreter to use, but I think many perl users are switching to python
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2021-06-20 11:01:15	phogg	reduce: I find that highly unlikely.
2021-06-20 11:01:27	phogg	The two camps are not populated by the same sorts of people.
2021-06-20 11:01:48	eqw	what about Tcl ?
2021-06-20 11:01:53	phogg	There's also no good reason to *switch*. There are some reasons why you might choose Python as your language, though.
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2021-06-20 11:02:09	phogg	eqw: sure, if you're in to that kind of thing. Not any better for string manipulation IMO.
2021-06-20 11:02:12	moo	does anyone know a big recent project that is made in perl?
2021-06-20 11:02:18	hkm	hi
2021-06-20 11:02:19	DPA	I guess awk is fine, it's a posix required program.
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2021-06-20 11:02:55	eqw	phogg: I'm looking for reasons to learn Tcl.
2021-06-20 11:03:04	phogg	eqw: isn't "because it's fun" enough?
2021-06-20 11:03:13	hkm	would the flag `--no-messages` (or `-s` for short) generally also suppress non-fatal warning messages?
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2021-06-20 11:03:27	hkm	its for a script im writing
2021-06-20 11:03:40	reduce	I don't think there are any reasons to learn Tcl, except curiosity
2021-06-20 11:03:48	eqw	phogg: it's fun if you can use what you have written
2021-06-20 11:03:58	moo	hkm: i'd put warning messages into -d[ebug] flag
2021-06-20 11:04:03	phogg	hkm: it depends on the program
2021-06-20 11:04:05	moo	or -v[erbose]
2021-06-20 11:04:12	hkm	grep uses `--no-messages` so I'm guessing there is a standard
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2021-06-20 11:04:24	phogg	hkm: I use --quiet for that kind of meaning
2021-06-20 11:04:37	phogg	--verbose for "less quiet"
2021-06-20 11:04:58	hkm	I was using -q (quiet) for warnings and -s for error messages
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2021-06-20 11:05:20	varaindemian	if I open an windows with "chromium-browser --new-window --app=$1 & sleep 10" what command can I use to close that window without touching the rest of the chromium windows?
2021-06-20 11:05:20	hkm	Not sure if it would be more logical for -s to work on both warnings and error messages
2021-06-20 11:05:40	hkm	pkill chromium-browser
2021-06-20 11:05:42	hkm	varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:05:51	hkm	oh sorry
2021-06-20 11:05:52	TJ-	DPA looks easily doable in sed
2021-06-20 11:05:53	hkm	read it wrong
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2021-06-20 11:06:12	hkm	that would kill all windows varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:06:19	varaindemian	hkm yeah
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2021-06-20 11:07:35	hkm	uhm maybe you can track the specific process being created using `ps`, learn its PID and send kill to the PID varaindemian
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2021-06-20 11:08:00	hkm	would have to write a script for it
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2021-06-20 11:08:14	TJ-	varaindemian: put the process in its own PID namespace
2021-06-20 11:08:17	varaindemian	hkm what is --app=$1 ?
2021-06-20 11:08:21	backleet	can someone help me around with ufw rule, I can't wrap my head around it. I have docker container running with port mapped to localhost:6595, do I have to allow from docker ip to localhost or opposite?
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2021-06-20 11:09:02	hkm	well I'm unfamiliar with the flags for chromium but "$1" is the argument passed to the script varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:09:14	hkm	well I'm unfamiliar with the flags for chromium but "$1" is the argument passed to the script varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:09:20	hkm	oops sorry
2021-06-20 11:09:51	hkm	the first argument is "$1" second is "$2" etc
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2021-06-20 11:10:13	varaindemian	hkm I see
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2021-06-20 11:10:16	hkm	some call those arguments positional parameters or pos-params for short
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2021-06-20 11:10:26	PlayerOne	hey all ^^
2021-06-20 11:10:36	PlayerOne	Why would xterm say exit is not found: xterm -e exit 2
2021-06-20 11:10:56	PlayerOne	Same for: xterm -e /bin/bash exit 2
2021-06-20 11:11:08	phogg	PlayerOne: exit is a builtin
2021-06-20 11:11:12	PlayerOne	Not the same, but bash doesn't find it too
2021-06-20 11:11:16	varaindemian	hkm than you! now I am looking into pid atribution
2021-06-20 11:11:20	PlayerOne	phogg, yes, but bash doesn't find it to
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2021-06-20 11:11:22	PlayerOne	too*
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2021-06-20 11:12:13	PlayerOne	phogg, xterm -hold -e /bin/bash exit 2
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2021-06-20 11:12:34	hkm	no problem, try ` ps aux | grep chromium` varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:13:02	rascul	xterm -hold -e /bin/bash -c "exit 2"
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2021-06-20 11:14:04	PlayerOne	rascul, why the first one doesn't work then? o.o
2021-06-20 11:14:08	varaindemian	hkm yeah but I'll have multiple windows open
2021-06-20 11:14:11	rascul	because exit isn't a file
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2021-06-20 11:14:39	varaindemian	so if I open it with that command, I want to keep track of its PID
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2021-06-20 11:15:20	PlayerOne	rascul, you mean like when you're launching a bash, it asks for commands like an interpreter, but before launching it assumes options and the first "plain" option is a script file?
2021-06-20 11:15:37	rascul	something like that
2021-06-20 11:15:43	PlayerOne	I see
2021-06-20 11:15:49	PlayerOne	Make sense then
2021-06-20 11:15:56	PlayerOne	Thank you ^^
2021-06-20 11:16:26	PlayerOne	"plain" argument *
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2021-06-20 11:16:42	hkm	its actually simple once you break it down varaindemian. First write ` ps aux | grep chromium` to a file, then run chromium, then write  ` ps aux | grep chromium` to another file. Finally compare these two files via `diff` to find the added line.
2021-06-20 11:16:48	hkm	That line should contain the PID
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2021-06-20 11:17:23	hkm	You can use process substitution if you know what that is, don't worry about it if you dont
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2021-06-20 11:17:59	phogg	that's not 100% reliable. Chromium may start new processes on its own.
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2021-06-20 11:19:16	PlanckLort	I'm working on a linux driver using a triggered buffer, but I can't seem to "trigger/call the poll functions from within my IRQ. Im trying to call the poll funcs with " iio_trigger_poll(trig)" but nothing happens. Besides printing out "trig->name" (which gives expected result) from my IRQ I'm not quite sure how to debug my issue. I have also noticed that some other drivers dont use
2021-06-20 11:19:17	PlanckLort	"iio_trigger_poll(trig)" at all and I dont understand how their trigger handler is triggered. Any help and ideas on how to proceed is appreiciated :)
2021-06-20 11:19:18	hkm	good point phogg, what do you suggest?
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2021-06-20 11:20:35	rascul	chromium-browser --new-window --app=$1 & browser_pid=$?; sleep 10
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2021-06-20 11:21:05	rascul	dunno if that'll work though depends on what chromium-browser does
2021-06-20 11:21:30	rascul	varaindemian ^
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2021-06-20 11:22:15	rascul	i dunno enough about chromium though, if chromium-browser is just a controller then a window might not match the pid
2021-06-20 11:22:55	PlayerOne	Write a func to go through all parent until first window
2021-06-20 11:23:06	PlayerOne	parents*
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2021-06-20 11:23:26	PlayerOne	xdotool search --pid $1 # To get windows of a process
2021-06-20 11:23:30	TJ-	varaindemian: to use a separate PID namespace, "sudo unshare --mount-proc --kill-child --fork --pid chromium-browser --new-window --app=$1 && sleep 10 & ; kill $! "
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2021-06-20 11:24:44	varaindemian	TJ- oh wow
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2021-06-20 11:25:11	kulak	what's the name of the project that can restrict access to websites based on DNS resolution control?
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2021-06-20 11:26:02	TJ-	kulak: do you mean pihole?
2021-06-20 11:26:48	kulak	probably, I will appreciate any Linux based solutions to control adds and access to youtube videos for kids.
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2021-06-20 11:27:32	varaindemian	TJ- https://pastebin.com/1LtAjUvk
2021-06-20 11:27:39	fakuve	hi guys , what is the standard .mp3 .wav player for linux (meaning in terminal) most lightweight?
2021-06-20 11:27:49	fakuve	aplayer?
2021-06-20 11:28:13	rascul	there is no standard but sox provides a 'play' command
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2021-06-20 11:28:47	fakuve	rascul: oks
2021-06-20 11:28:49	hkm	I recommend `cmus` but that might not be lightweight enough fakuve. It is written in C though.
2021-06-20 11:29:53	fakuve	hkm: yep I use thatone , but thats more for music , now I'm just heading to some directories using `ranger-fm` and I want it to execute something really really headless
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2021-06-20 11:30:50	varaindemian	TJ- https://pastebin.com/kwEfUzpk
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2021-06-20 11:31:01	TJ-	varaindemian: looks like you'd have to jump through more hoops to enable the DBUS socket. Also, I should have given you the /unprivileged/ version so the process doesn't run as root/UID on the host side. Don't use "sudo" and add the unshare option "--map-root-user" - inside the namespace it'll think it is UID 0/root but outside will be your regular user
2021-06-20 11:31:01	-->	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 11:31:05	hkm	How important is to catch errors for POSIX utilities? For instance, should `var=$(printf lol | cut -b 1)` be written as `var=$(printf lol || exit | cut -b 1 || exit)` instead?
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2021-06-20 11:34:32	DPA	I've now solved my braces matching problem with awk: awk 'BEGIN{l=0;FS="";}; {for(i=1;i<=NF;i++){if($i=="("){if(l++==0)print "";} printf $i; if($i==")"){if(--l==0)print "";} } }'
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2021-06-20 11:37:14	varaindemian	TJ- unshare --map-root-user --mount-proc --kill-child --fork --pid chromium-browser --new-window --app=$1 && sleep 10
2021-06-20 11:37:16	varaindemian	like this?
2021-06-20 11:37:25	<--	kish` (~aqua@user/aqua) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 11:37:35	varaindemian	TJ- or maybe I can simply kill the focused windows I guess
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2021-06-20 11:37:53	varaindemian	TJ- looks like I am getting other root errors now
2021-06-20 11:38:07	varaindemian	WARNING: cannot create user data directory: cannot create "/root/snap/chromium/1646": mkdir /root/snap: permission denied
2021-06-20 11:38:37	TJ-	varaindemian: oh well, you're using a snap so all bets are off. SNAP does its own thing
2021-06-20 11:38:46	varaindemian	:/
2021-06-20 11:38:56	hkm	sad
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2021-06-20 11:39:43	varaindemian	TJ- and for the currently open window part? xdotool getwindowfocus windowkill
2021-06-20 11:39:54	varaindemian	I found that but I wonder if there's something else
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2021-06-20 11:42:21	TJ-	DPA: looks prettier than the sed version  sed  's/ \((\)/\n\1/; s/\([^(]*[^ ]) \)/\1\n/; s/\(([^ ]*)\)/\n\1/'
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2021-06-20 11:45:39	varaindemian	TJ-
2021-06-20 11:46:17	varaindemian	TJ- `xdotool getwindowfocus windowkill` this looks elegant but I realised I'll have multiple screens so I'll first need to witch to that screen and then kill the active window
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2021-06-20 11:49:15	roni_	load average: 1870,62, 1803,22, 1687,08
2021-06-20 11:49:20	roni_	Just a Few
2021-06-20 11:49:45	varaindemian	hkm '; kill $!' kills a certain process ID?
2021-06-20 11:49:46	hodapp	that's fine as long as you have ~2000 CPUs or so
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2021-06-20 11:50:35	kfrench	hodapp: I made a VM that had 255.  Is that close enough?
2021-06-20 11:50:41	hkm	no $! is PID of job placed in the background varaindemian
2021-06-20 11:50:41	hodapp	yeah sure
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2021-06-20 11:50:51	 *	hodapp stabs Boost in the face
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2021-06-20 11:51:31	hkm	Can someone who writes production scripts help me out?
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2021-06-20 11:51:51	bewees	i want to install a very minimal linux system to use as a hypervisior with less attack surface, similar to openbsd which disable loadable driver modules or the bluetooth stack by default. can I achieve this with `ubuntu server` and just compile my kernel manually or is this easier achievable with a distro like gentoo?
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2021-06-20 11:52:32	CommunistWolf	the kernel can be treated pretty independently
2021-06-20 11:52:38	hodapp	wasn't this sort of the point of things like CoreOS?
2021-06-20 11:53:07	CommunistWolf	you might find "no kernel modules" a pain to actually do, though. don't be surprised if you need to recompile a few hundred times to ensure you've got everything you need
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2021-06-20 12:00:02	bewees	CommunistWolf: shouldn't the kernel load the required modules automatically on boot? just "loadable modules" can do it while the system is up running
2021-06-20 12:00:39	bewees	hodapp: do you know if fedora coreos supports kvm/qemu?
2021-06-20 12:00:54	hodapp	not a clue
2021-06-20 12:01:03	c705	you think it would
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2021-06-20 12:01:32	hkm	c705, the legend! I need your help. How important is to catch errors for POSIX utilities? For instance, should `var=$(printf lol | cut -b 1)` be written as `var=$(printf lol || exit | cut -b 1 || exit)` instead?
2021-06-20 12:01:42	c705	what
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2021-06-20 12:02:00	hkm	lol what do you mean 'what'?
2021-06-20 12:02:07	CommunistWolf	wonder if you could load a module that forbids future module loading
2021-06-20 12:02:37	c705	CommunistWolf: i doubt it, that would break the userspace
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2021-06-20 12:02:56	c705	hkm: i would be using any other language pesides sh/bash unless absoluetly nessecary
2021-06-20 12:03:03	CommunistWolf	any userspace trying to load more modules, sure
2021-06-20 12:03:06	CommunistWolf	that's the ask
2021-06-20 12:03:08	varaindemian	hkm another option I have in mind would be to close all windows on one of the screens and then continue my actions
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2021-06-20 12:03:25	kfrench	CommunistWolf: Look into the LOCKDOWN config option
2021-06-20 12:03:47	varaindemian	hkm not all. only the chromium ones on that particular screen
2021-06-20 12:03:53	CommunistWolf	bewees: ^
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2021-06-20 12:04:36	hkm	varaindemian did you try out the thing I told you to?
2021-06-20 12:04:48	AiwendilH	CommunistWolf: kernel has a "nomodul" parameter that disables module loading...but that probably won't work for your case as you have to give it at boot and then can't load modules afterwards
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2021-06-20 12:04:50	velix	kernel:[ 4611.203461] watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#4 stuck for 31s!
2021-06-20 12:04:55	velix	Aaaaaaand we've got a winner
2021-06-20 12:04:55	AiwendilH	"nomodule"*
2021-06-20 12:04:56	CommunistWolf	not my case :D
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2021-06-20 12:05:07	varaindemian	hkm no $! is PID of job placed in the background varaindemian
2021-06-20 12:05:08	varaindemian	?
2021-06-20 12:05:20	hkm	nope the thing with diff
2021-06-20 12:05:35	hkm	ps aux then run chromium then diff, remember
2021-06-20 12:05:44	velix	Wait, I'm logged in as a user. Why do I see kernel messages?
2021-06-20 12:05:50	bewees	so i have to make sure all drivers i need are loaded on boot time
2021-06-20 12:06:12	varaindemian	hkm yeah but there will be other chrome windows open on other screens
2021-06-20 12:06:17	varaindemian	so it might fail
2021-06-20 12:06:45	hkm	c705 well would you error check after running coreutils on other programming languages?
2021-06-20 12:07:36	hkm	It shouldnt really fail unless chromium spawns extra processes varaindemian. Just give it a try.
2021-06-20 12:07:48	hkm	Do you understand the logic behind it?
2021-06-20 12:07:49	varaindemian	hkm I will
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2021-06-20 12:08:05	varaindemian	hkm Will try it
2021-06-20 12:08:09	hkm	cool
2021-06-20 12:08:17	fakuve	rascul: hey sox its amazing thanks for the recommendation , is such a powerfull commandline tool . Just a thing , while on playback can I pause the play and rewind or sth like that? thx
2021-06-20 12:08:34	TJ-	bewees: "echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/modules_disabled " as soon as the system has booted, or do it via /etc/sysctl.d/ entry
2021-06-20 12:08:57	varaindemian	hkm the problem is I will not the only one opening windows
2021-06-20 12:09:04	varaindemian	I'll not be*
2021-06-20 12:09:21	fakuve	rascul: it doesn't look like , anyways for command based edition its so nice
2021-06-20 12:09:26	fakuve	thans
2021-06-20 12:09:47	TJ-	bewees: e.g. echo "kernel.modules_disabled  = 1" | sudo tee -a /etc/sysctl.d/20-modules-disabled.conf"
2021-06-20 12:09:47	hkm	oh now I see what you mean varaindemian, you can use ps to parse by user though
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2021-06-20 12:10:16	hkm	for instance you can `ps -u root` shows root's processes
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2021-06-20 12:10:22	varaindemian	hkm it will be a single user tho but that user will be used by multiple persons
2021-06-20 12:10:25	bewees	TJ-: i read you can disable it when compiling the kernel by setting "CONFIG_MODULES=n"
2021-06-20 12:10:37	hkm	varaindemian yeah idk sorry
2021-06-20 12:10:49	varaindemian	no worries
2021-06-20 12:10:50	bewees	TJ-: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel_Modules#Going_completely_module-less
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2021-06-20 12:11:14	TJ-	bewees: but that means you need to build a kernel with "make deflocalconfig"
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2021-06-20 12:11:52	TJ-	bewees: the way I suggest you can use the distro kernel and still disable dynamically loadable modules as soon as the the system is starting, so nothing userspace can trigger it
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2021-06-20 12:12:55	c705	if you disable it from the userspace, can't the userspace just re-enable it?
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2021-06-20 12:13:06	bewees	TJ-: what does deflocalconfig mean, you mean my own kernel config right
2021-06-20 12:13:12	c705	might be fine for certain use cases, but not for security
2021-06-20 12:13:27	TJ-	varaindemian: have you tried simply "timeout 10.0s chromium-browser --new-window --app=$1" ?
2021-06-20 12:13:36	hkm	varaindemian that shouldn't really be a problem unless those people all run it at the same time
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2021-06-20 12:14:12	varaindemian	TJ- I don't want that window to be open only for 10 seconds
2021-06-20 12:14:17	AiwendilH	the usual reason why some people suggest removing module loading is to prevent loading of malicious kernel modules. But for that you need to be root i nthe first place already...so any config that can be altered as root doesn't prevent it. Not building in the kernel possibly does
2021-06-20 12:14:19	TJ-	c705: sorry, typo, either "make localyesconfig" or "make localmodconfig"
2021-06-20 12:14:26	AiwendilH	(but presonally I think you have much bigger problems already if someone managed to get i nthe state that they can load modules)
2021-06-20 12:14:35	varaindemian	TJ- I want t open it and then kill it ondemand
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2021-06-20 12:14:52	TJ-	varaindemian: ahhh, didn't notice that part. Still, best thing for chromium, to kill it!
2021-06-20 12:14:53	varaindemian	TJ- I don;t mind killing everything on one of the screens
2021-06-20 12:15:41	hkm	' best thing for chromium, to kill it!' 100% agree
2021-06-20 12:16:24	hkm	"I don;t mind killing everything on one of the screens" that might be easier to accomplish varaindemian
2021-06-20 12:16:55	hkm	I'm not really familiar with how monitors work in Linux if that's what you mean by 'screen' but that shouldn't be too hard
2021-06-20 12:17:11	varaindemian	hkm that's what I mean
2021-06-20 12:17:28	hkm	what Window Manager do you use?
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2021-06-20 12:18:17	hkm	actually, you're on GNOME by default if you use Ubuntu if I'm not mistaken
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2021-06-20 12:18:30	varaindemian	hkm right
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2021-06-20 12:19:35	bewees	TJ-: i see, I think localmodconfig is very useful, includes only the necessary drivers automatically to the kernel
2021-06-20 12:19:48	hkm	well I can't help you much but know that you need to look into how you can manipulate monitors in GNOME varaindemian
2021-06-20 12:20:06	varaindemian	hkm https://serverfault.com/questions/96406/kill-a-screen-but-not-all-screens
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2021-06-20 12:20:30	varaindemian	hkm do you think this will help?
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2021-06-20 12:20:41	bewees	so will gentoo be easier to build a hardnened minimal system or can I just do this with `ubuntu server` too? I think ubuntu server already comes with fewer preinstalled packages, so I would just have compile a custom kernel right?
2021-06-20 12:20:52	hkm	I am not familiar with the screen command. Let me read up on it
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2021-06-20 12:21:20	c705	probably easier to start with nothing and build up rather than start with ubuntu server and strip things
2021-06-20 12:21:32	c705	i use alpine linux instead of gentoo for that
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2021-06-20 12:22:47	hkm	varaindemian I'm a bit busy right now but that may work
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2021-06-20 12:23:33	varaindemian	hkm in linux can I somehow install packages in a virtualenv and then completely delete that environment?
2021-06-20 12:24:04	danieldg	varaindemian: yep.  There are several such environments depending on what you want
2021-06-20 12:24:08	c705	yes, using chrots, vms, a container, etc
2021-06-20 12:24:09	hkm	well dont see why not
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2021-06-20 12:24:31	danieldg	varaindemian: VMs, containers like docker or flatpak, ...
2021-06-20 12:24:38	kfrench	Or just --root DIRECTORY with rpm
2021-06-20 12:24:45	hkm	varaindemian: c705 is the real expert here. I know nothing compared to him :)
2021-06-20 12:24:57	Dagmar	Generally a chroot like LFS builds will be fine
2021-06-20 12:25:02	Dagmar	That's actually a good place to start
2021-06-20 12:25:16	c705	can you stop calling me an expert, it's making me uncomfortable
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2021-06-20 12:25:35	 *	onelegend puts c705 into a container
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2021-06-20 12:25:38	Dagmar	If youv'e got the resources, a VM will be the most straightforward
2021-06-20 12:25:46	kfrench	c705: Just wait til we start calling you Mr or Sir.
2021-06-20 12:25:55	akik	c705: this is linux, you know this
2021-06-20 12:25:59	varaindemian	danieldg something fast and without pain :D
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2021-06-20 12:26:10	Dagmar	Docker or a VM then
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2021-06-20 12:26:20	Dagmar	building a chroot environment is not a "pain free" thing
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2021-06-20 12:26:25	danieldg	varaindemian: depends on what you want to do
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2021-06-20 12:27:36	kurahaupo	even if you put an entire duplicate of the root fs inside your chroot, there's still weird stuff like init not being visible
2021-06-20 12:28:21	kurahaupo	Trying to run an X client from inside a chroot session is just painful
2021-06-20 12:28:54	TJ-	varaindemian: got another solution for your chromium issue. "chromium-browser --name myprecious --new-window --app=$1" then later "xdotool search --name myprecious windowkill"
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2021-06-20 12:29:00	c705	running gui applications in any sort of contained environment sucks in general
2021-06-20 12:29:14	onelegend	idk man, I do it all the time
2021-06-20 12:29:23	c705	so do I, but it sucks
2021-06-20 12:29:24	akik	c705: sure, but you can do it. you're the expert
2021-06-20 12:29:24	danieldg	if it's a gui environment, consider GUI containers (say, flatpak)
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2021-06-20 12:29:43	kfrench	If anyone can do it, c705 can.
2021-06-20 12:29:43	danieldg	they do all the wiring up of X sockets and dbus proxies and such
2021-06-20 12:30:40	hkm	akik stop you're bullying him
2021-06-20 12:30:40	danieldg	a VM is also doable, but that usually means you need to start up a desktop environment in the VM which appears as a window
2021-06-20 12:30:54	Dagmar	Since when
2021-06-20 12:31:01	Dagmar	I've got loads of console-only VMs
2021-06-20 12:31:06	akik	hkm: i'm joking of course
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2021-06-20 12:31:14	hkm	oh its okay then :)
2021-06-20 12:31:15	-->	badsektor (~badsektor@user/badsektor) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 12:31:16	hkm	hahah
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2021-06-20 12:31:22	Dagmar	...and you can certainly export the display of an X app in a VM to the display of the hypervisor parent
2021-06-20 12:31:23	danieldg	Dagmar: which doesn't work well for running gui programs...
2021-06-20 12:31:35	danieldg	Dagmar: sure, if you say use ssh -X
2021-06-20 12:31:37	akik	once you start systemd in your container, it all becomes clear
2021-06-20 12:31:43	Dagmar	danielg: Learn about the wonders of ssh -X and ssh -Y, mna
2021-06-20 12:31:55	Psi-Jack	Or even x2go. :)
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2021-06-20 12:32:10	akik	xpra even better
2021-06-20 12:32:14	Dagmar	I usually have a not-so-fast laptop with a good screen becasue I tunnel X displays _lots_
2021-06-20 12:32:42	danieldg	this is why I included the word "usually" in my statement
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2021-06-20 12:33:08	bewees	c705: just read up alpine, reminds me of arch linux, but alpine comes additionally with a hardened kernel, no systemd. so the advantage of alpine is that i save compilation time compared to gentoo where I have to compile each source right
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2021-06-20 12:33:21	danieldg	and chrome disliked X forwarding last I tried it
2021-06-20 12:33:23	c705	it is _nothing_ like arch linux
2021-06-20 12:33:58	Psi-Jack	akik: xpra?
2021-06-20 12:34:03	c705	there is no hardened kernel, the wiki is full of shit. it's just very minimal to start with, and the package manager is decent
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2021-06-20 12:34:16	akik	Psi-Jack: it's like x2go, but better
2021-06-20 12:34:23	Psi-Jack	Is it now? How is it "better"?
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2021-06-20 12:34:45	akik	Psi-Jack: some things that are slow with x2go are fast with xpra
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2021-06-20 12:35:28	Dagmar	I fail to see why that particular tool wouldn't be just another moving part
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2021-06-20 12:36:34	akik	and some things like emacs are faster on x2go than on xpra
2021-06-20 12:37:40	bewees	c705: thanks, im going to think about picking gentoo hardened or alpine then :-)
2021-06-20 12:37:50	Psi-Jack	Hmmm
2021-06-20 12:38:00	kfrench	Aren't cpio files concatable?  Meaning (cat my.cpio your.cpio) | cpio -itv
2021-06-20 12:38:09	Psi-Jack	emacs, I care nothing for. I've tried emacs various ways, and it's slow as crap.
2021-06-20 12:38:31	Psi-Jack	And I don't like CTS that emacs induces. :)
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2021-06-20 12:39:15	varaindemian	TJ- that works but it opens the browser with an adress pointing to myprecious :D
2021-06-20 12:39:21	Psi-Jack	So, xpra, looks like you only install xpra on the client system, not the remote?
2021-06-20 12:39:25	TJ-	varaindemian: it didn't for mine
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2021-06-20 12:40:03	akik	Psi-Jack: on the server too
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2021-06-20 12:40:45	TJ-	varaindemian: oh! I missed out the = ... should be --name=myprecious
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2021-06-20 12:41:58	Psi-Jack	Hmmm.. Well, it's available on Fedora and Ubuntu, so I will try this out. :)
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2021-06-20 12:42:36	mime_	exit
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2021-06-20 12:47:34	varaindemian	TJ- works great!
2021-06-20 12:47:43	varaindemian	TJ- how did you find this?
2021-06-20 12:47:53	TJ-	varaindemian: dredging long forgotten memories
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2021-06-20 12:48:18	TJ-	varaindemian: and reading the --help !
2021-06-20 12:48:42	TJ-	varaindemian: all gtk-based programs include gtk arguments, and --name= is one such
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2021-06-20 12:49:39	TJ-	varaindemian: last time I used that was pre 2010 when I was building automated tests
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2021-06-20 12:50:27	VMGuy234	How do I get refind to work with secure boot? It just has a bunch of security violations
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2021-06-20 12:50:47	TJ-	VMGuy234: sign it
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2021-06-20 12:51:03	VMGuy234	i have no idea how
2021-06-20 12:51:11	VMGuy234	on Ubuntu, just used PPA
2021-06-20 12:51:31	varaindemian	TJ- oh wow. it's been some time :D
2021-06-20 12:51:36	-->	pong (~loop@user/pong) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 12:51:36	TJ-	VMGuy234: you'd need to add a MOK (Machine Owners Key) to the keychain for SB, and sign it using that key
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2021-06-20 12:52:08	VMGuy234	how would i s
2021-06-20 12:52:10	VMGuy234	do thst
2021-06-20 12:52:11	VMGuy234	that
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2021-06-20 12:52:48	TJ-	VMGuy234: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI/SecureBoot
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2021-06-20 12:53:00	varaindemian	TJ- also experimenting with xodotool for killing all the apps on one screen
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2021-06-20 12:53:20	TJ-	varaindemian: do you mean an X screen, or a monitor?
2021-06-20 12:53:21	varaindemian	TJ- that seems more ellegant since it will not require any PID
2021-06-20 12:53:29	varaindemian	TJ- monitor
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2021-06-20 12:54:48	TJ-	varaindemian: not sure that xdotool can do that easily, unless X is treating each monitor as a desktop
2021-06-20 12:55:18	-->	kodah (~kodah@user/kodah) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 12:55:19	varaindemian	TJ- I also have this here: https://serverfault.com/questions/96406/kill-a-screen-but-not-all-screens
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2021-06-20 12:56:01	TJ-	'screen' is a terminal multiplexer like tmux; nothing to do with X or GUI
2021-06-20 12:57:13	fakuve	where were the keyboard layouts listed in debian? which path?
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2021-06-20 12:59:31	fakuve	/usr/share/X11/xkb/
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2021-06-20 13:00:16	varaindemian	TJ then I should look into what hkm suggested -> manipulating monitors in Gnome
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2021-06-20 13:08:25	VMGuy234	i installed the key foor refind but it still says security violation
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2021-06-20 13:09:06	VMGuy234	*for
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2021-06-20 13:14:04	TJ-	VMGuy234: did you consult also http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/secureboot.html
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2021-06-20 13:17:23	pnbeast	rascul, is it raining?
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2021-06-20 13:20:19	 *	rascul makes it rain on pnbeast
2021-06-20 13:20:25	VMGuy234	TJ-: yes
2021-06-20 13:20:27	pnbeast	Yay!
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2021-06-20 13:22:21	iamtheworstdev	looking for thoughts on setting up a remote dev environment so I can quit trying to keep three machines in sync with various tools.. etc.. I was thinking virtualbox instance remotely accessed via VNC but phpvirtualbox is dead i can't get hyperbox to connect to anything.. y'all know of any competitors to that?
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2021-06-20 13:24:45	hodapp	for what sort of dev?
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2021-06-20 13:27:55	clemens3	how many tools you need to update.. keep it simple... and use git to sync your code..
2021-06-20 13:28:40	-->	samuraikid (~samuraiki@user/samuraikid) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:29:03	Dagmar	I'm thinking perhaps this is an appopriate time to talk about virt-manager, since it's basically one-stop shopping for that
2021-06-20 13:29:05	qman	Use docker, this is one of its best use cases
2021-06-20 13:29:25	tscopp	^
2021-06-20 13:29:35	qman	Your environment is consistent everywhere because you build it every time
2021-06-20 13:29:36	Dagmar	It's GUI can connect to KVM/QEMU over ssh
2021-06-20 13:30:04	qman	And you never miss any dependencies because you can't
2021-06-20 13:30:04	Dagmar	...on multiple hosts simultaneously.
2021-06-20 13:30:10	sumthing1980	I got ssh keys mixed up "The host key differs from the key for the ip ..." where do I fix this is there a gui
2021-06-20 13:30:28	clemens3	in .ssh/known_hosts
2021-06-20 13:30:45	clemens3	ssh-keygen -F and -R flags or such, man is your friend..
2021-06-20 13:30:46	Dagmar	sumthing1980: Just ssh to it from a text console and it'll tell you which line of your known_hosts contains the offending key
2021-06-20 13:31:32	iamtheworstdev	i feel like every guide i've followed to set up docker for this results in errors I haven't been able to figure out
2021-06-20 13:32:20	sumthing1980	alright thanks
2021-06-20 13:32:34	Dagmar	Unless you specifically need docker because you're planning on importing someone else's unholy mess, there's no shame in going heavyweight with full VMs
2021-06-20 13:33:20	Dagmar	It's also pretty easy.  Insert virtal DVD into virtual machine, boot virtual machine up, install normally, that sort of thing
2021-06-20 13:34:31	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:34:49	iamtheworstdev	wow.. virt-manager couldn't have less useful documentation could it
2021-06-20 13:35:00	Dagmar	It genuinely doesn't need a whole lot
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2021-06-20 13:35:38	Dagmar	Basically, you just run it.  If you run it as root on the VMhost it'll just connect straight to the hypervisor and show you a list of the available virtuals
2021-06-20 13:36:17	-->	hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:36:20	Dagmar	If you are a sane and reasonable human and don't want to run things as root when you don't need to, you'll just need a newer group attribute stuck onto your user account so it can connect to the unix socket to talk to the hpervisor
2021-06-20 13:36:34	Dagmar	Lemme poke at one of mine real quick and I'll tell ya where to find that little bit
2021-06-20 13:37:04	iamtheworstdev	the UI doesn't do me any good because i've only got ssh/tty
2021-06-20 13:37:04	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:37:58	DLange	you should use Linux, iamtheworstdev. Much better dev experience :)
2021-06-20 13:38:15	Dagmar	iamtheworstdev: Are you on a machine with just a text console or are you just using Windows?
2021-06-20 13:38:20	-->	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:38:35	Dagmar	iamtheworstdev: There's also `virsh` but it's a little arcane
2021-06-20 13:38:47	blackgatonegro	Hey guys, I get first dose of vaccine in ten days
2021-06-20 13:39:10	DLange	blackgatonegro: and that relates to #linux how?
2021-06-20 13:39:12	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Good for you.  Plan on not doing a whole lot the day after your second.
2021-06-20 13:39:24	blackgatonegro	Nothing at all
2021-06-20 13:39:26	<--	jarthur (~jarthur@cpe-70-114-198-37.austin.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: jarthur)
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2021-06-20 13:39:40	blackgatonegro	I am not doing much anyway
2021-06-20 13:39:42	Dagmar	side effects on the first one are basically nothing
2021-06-20 13:39:51	Dagmar	The second one, you might as well have a nasty fever for the day
2021-06-20 13:39:56	<--	uoj6wz6qoswb (~cuaCvvnw~@user/spareproject) has left #linux
2021-06-20 13:40:04	Dagmar	...but it beats slowly drowning in your own mucus.
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2021-06-20 13:40:13	DLange	Dagmar: that all depends on the vacine used
2021-06-20 13:40:19	blackgatonegro	Yeah headaches; fever and your arm getting inflammation is nothing.
2021-06-20 13:40:25	Dagmar	Phizer and Moderna are both doing the same thing for most folks
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2021-06-20 13:40:40	DLange	yes and there are ~5 more vaccines
2021-06-20 13:40:54	bparker	I've always had bad experience with libvirt the longer I use it, I always end up moving my VMs to be ran directly via qemu command-line instead
2021-06-20 13:40:56	Dagmar	The arm inflammation is basically the normal stuff for a shot, but the muscle does seem to react and be a bit more sore than with other shots
2021-06-20 13:41:03	johnnyapol	second dose of pfizer caused a lot of swelling in my lymph nodes in the arm i received it in. felt like a golf ball was stuck between my arm and chest
2021-06-20 13:41:16	Dagmar	bparker: The two can be used together
2021-06-20 13:41:32	Dagmar	I don't hesitate to slap a VM into rebooting using virsh
2021-06-20 13:41:46	bparker	it's much more difficult but yes
2021-06-20 13:42:01	blackgatonegro	Want arcane? Get online with freedos on 2021
2021-06-20 13:42:03	bparker	the gui lacks many options you might need to pass manually
2021-06-20 13:42:14	iamtheworstdev	Dagmar, I'd be hosting this on a rack mount ubuntu server.. remote in through linux or windows depending on the machine I'm in
2021-06-20 13:42:32	Dagmar	That's, umm... unfortunate
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2021-06-20 13:42:51	bparker	but it (libvirt) can also cause issues with options that it always passes that you *can't* get rid of
2021-06-20 13:42:59	blackgatonegro	Honesty people use ubuntu because it looks pretty, if you gonna be using the server version just go right to debían
2021-06-20 13:43:04	bparker	lol
2021-06-20 13:43:05	Dagmar	iamtheworstdev: Still, you can install Cygwin/X on the windows box and get an X server and virt-manager directly through that (you'll be running it on windows yeah)
2021-06-20 13:43:25	bparker	blackgatonegro: that's just like, your opinion man
2021-06-20 13:43:40	bparker	debian is still using older software in comparison
2021-06-20 13:43:44	Dagmar	iamtheworstdev: ...and when you're using LInux you could ssh tunnel virt-manager to your desktop from the vhost, or you could run virt-manager on your desktop and have it connect to the vhost
2021-06-20 13:43:47	iamtheworstdev	this is hilarious. so where can I get a list of os variants for this
2021-06-20 13:43:52	bparker	google
2021-06-20 13:43:53	blackgatonegro	Well yeah, but you want stability on a server... and that's basically debian
2021-06-20 13:44:07	bparker	depends on your application
2021-06-20 13:44:07	Dagmar	For that sort of thing, Debian is going ot be less hassle than Ubuntu anyway
2021-06-20 13:44:12	bparker	some people need updated packages
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2021-06-20 13:44:29	blackgatonegro	Ubuntu is debian unstable with a coat of paint
2021-06-20 13:44:31	bparker	and updating debian to certain newer packages can easily spiral out of control with dependencies
2021-06-20 13:44:34	lautre[m]	johnnyapol: If you think it's abnormal, you should ask for medical advice to medical staff.  They know if this can be worse or not.
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2021-06-20 13:44:59	Dagmar	A host which is the home to other, smaller hosts, kind of suggests that perhaps stability is more important than taking on whizbang features so you can take full advantage of sideways plaind text.
2021-06-20 13:45:16	Dagmar	er... s/plaind/plaid/
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2021-06-20 13:45:49	blackgatonegro	Anyway there is thing thing that supposedly has more users that apache and never heard of it before
2021-06-20 13:45:50	johnnyapol	its been 3+ weeks since i got it and everythings back to normal, 5g bars are full and everything
2021-06-20 13:45:54	iamtheworstdev	this has all gone so hilariously bad i'm about to just pay for a AWS Workspace
2021-06-20 13:46:00	-->	x88x88x (~x88x88x@188.214.106.69) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:46:16	bparker	what thing thing
2021-06-20 13:46:19	bparker	nginx ?
2021-06-20 13:46:25	<--	kulak (~kulak@user/kulak) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-06-20 13:46:31	bparker	workspace is overpriced
2021-06-20 13:46:39	bparker	just get a normal windows instance
2021-06-20 13:46:41	Dagmar	johnnyapol: Honestly I'm surprised some of these people have managed to keep silent while morons are trying to testify the vaccine is making people magnetic and stuff
2021-06-20 13:46:55	Dagmar	I know that *I* would make a horrible scene over that
2021-06-20 13:47:03	bparker	who is *testifying* this ?
2021-06-20 13:47:08	-->	kodah (~kodah@user/kodah) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:47:12	Dagmar	It was literally on CNN, man
2021-06-20 13:47:12	bparker	cause obviously that will fail every time cause proof and science
2021-06-20 13:47:21	<--	gpeskens (~gpeskens@2001:985:7aa4:1:b32e:bcaa:7e9a:3dbd) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 13:47:27	-->	kulak (~kulak@user/kulak) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:47:29	Dagmar	LIke we need to be any more embarassed by our conservation of idiots
2021-06-20 13:47:30	bparker	CNN
2021-06-20 13:47:39	-->	gpeskens (~gpeskens@2001:985:7aa4:1:af84:4447:530e:6bd1) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:47:42	Dagmar	Crazy people trying to testify before judges and stuff
2021-06-20 13:47:45	[[R]]	johnnyapol: yes, but does a spoon stick to your head?
2021-06-20 13:47:55	-->	msiism (~msi@user/msiism) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:48:25	pnbeast	Toilet tissue sticks on the bottom of my shoe.
2021-06-20 13:48:43	-->	tangledwire (~imran@www.cubicsignal.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:48:44	[[R]]	pnbeast: i don't think that's because of the 'rona or the 'rona vaccine though...
2021-06-20 13:48:59	lautre[m]	What appen when you are close to CRT screen?
2021-06-20 13:49:12	msiism	lautre[m]: Depends.
2021-06-20 13:49:18	Dagmar	Your skin takes on that healthy eldritch glow
2021-06-20 13:49:23	pnbeast	Oh, it's because I glue it there with rubber cement before I walk through the restaurant to talk with complete strangers.
2021-06-20 13:49:25	-->	sumthing1980 (~sumthing1@94.54.64.154) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:49:33	lautre[m]	And, it's better to have reaction than nothing, for the second shot
2021-06-20 13:50:02	blackgatonegro	nginx claims to now have more users that Apache
2021-06-20 13:50:17	bparker	I believe it
2021-06-20 13:50:22	bparker	apache is dogshit these days
2021-06-20 13:50:24	bparker	and slow
2021-06-20 13:50:29	Dagmar	40% of the population voted for Trump
2021-06-20 13:50:29	<--	catman (~catman@user/catman370) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 13:50:35	[[R]]	pnbeast: why would you talk to strangers?
2021-06-20 13:50:42	Dagmar	Crowds can easily be large bodies of dumb people.
2021-06-20 13:50:48	blackgatonegro	pnbeast maybe clean your shoes more or don't have a wet floor.
2021-06-20 13:51:00	pnbeast	[[R]], trolling in IRC is so pedestrian.  Trolling in real life - that's where the fun begins.
2021-06-20 13:51:02	Dagmar	Use whichever server you're more familiar with
2021-06-20 13:51:09	<--	iamtheworstdev (~iamthewor@c-98-253-72-149.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 13:51:12	-->	vwork (~vwork@50-249-207-86-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:51:17	blackgatonegro	That's the mass effect, the bigger a mass of people the dumber they act.
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2021-06-20 13:51:23	bparker	A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
2021-06-20 13:51:26	[[R]]	is rubber cement still a thing? i remmber using that in school
2021-06-20 13:51:29	msiism	bparker: So, dog's excrement is even lower than human excrement, I take it?
2021-06-20 13:51:36	bparker	[[R]]: ye
2021-06-20 13:51:41	Dagmar	pnbeast: Yo... My mask literally says in big letters, 'WEAR A MASK' and "you filthy plague rat" below it in smaller letters
2021-06-20 13:51:51	Dagmar	I've had two people actually try and call me out over that.
2021-06-20 13:51:57	tangledwire	Men in black reference
2021-06-20 13:52:07	Dagmar	Their suffering was delicious
2021-06-20 13:52:08	blackgatonegro	dog's excrement ends in the floor more so that means it tends to be lower?
2021-06-20 13:52:09	-->	CrustY (~crusty@2001:a61:3b63:cb01:bfc3:3357:e84d:d7b0) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:52:29	msiism	tangledwire: What's a man in a black reference?
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2021-06-20 13:52:50	blackgatonegro	I make this suit look good?
2021-06-20 13:52:53	Dagmar	[[R]]: It's still a thing, but now it comes in a bunch of variations like "Shoe Goo" and stuff
2021-06-20 13:53:16	Dagmar	It's not often you find it sold named just "rubber cement" because of idiots who apparently like to sniff it
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2021-06-20 13:53:33	pnbeast	Dagmar, nice!
2021-06-20 13:53:40	blackgatonegro	There is no shoe goo there is just dirty shoes wet floors and "Oh you stepped on something"
2021-06-20 13:54:21	pnbeast	Oh, Shoe Goo is much, much tougher stuff than rubber cement.  You can use it to fix, well, shoes!  I repaired an inflatable raft with it when I was a kid.  It work for at least two years, until we moved and I trashed the raft.
2021-06-20 13:54:29	Dagmar	I buy newbies and they have decided to use horrible glue, so I hafta buy that to keep putting the soles back on
2021-06-20 13:54:35	-->	tangledwire (~imran@www.cubicsignal.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:55:12	[[R]]	i ususally just throw away my shoes
2021-06-20 13:55:18	Dagmar	it's a shame because I've been buying that model cross-trainer for like 15-20 years now and now I have to find someone who uses decent glue
2021-06-20 13:55:32	 *	c705 takes [[R]]'s thrown away shoes
2021-06-20 13:55:37	Dagmar	[[R]]: The dang sole comes unglued after like 8 months.  For a _leather_ shoe that's unacceptable
2021-06-20 13:55:37	blackgatonegro	I used shoe glue... it tends to be ruined by heat
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2021-06-20 13:55:55	blackgatonegro	so fix your shoes with that? avoid hot water
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2021-06-20 13:55:57	[[R]]	c705: what are you going to do with used shoes?
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2021-06-20 13:56:15	c705	[[R]]: make an altar
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2021-06-20 13:56:32	Dagmar	I ain't buying k-mart special brands made of recycled scrubbing pads
2021-06-20 13:56:52	blackgatonegro	Haven't replaced my shoes yet due to the pandemic and by now is... well I still have half a tube of shoe glue left.
2021-06-20 13:57:03	Dagmar	Leather shoes should last for as long as there's tread on them
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2021-06-20 13:57:19	c705	you guys remember when k-mart had that restraunt? god that was a time to be alive
2021-06-20 13:57:22	[[R]]	c705: better not be some kind of voodoo
2021-06-20 13:57:29	[[R]]	is kmart still a thing?
2021-06-20 13:57:36	c705	in my mind it is
2021-06-20 13:57:39	<--	glouniche (~glouniche@177.54.152.238) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 13:57:40	-->	x88x88x (~x88x88x@188.214.106.69) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:57:41	Dagmar	c705: Must not have been at all of them because I used to work for one
2021-06-20 13:57:43	blackgatonegro	Leather shoes last as long as you use leather cream on them otherwise the leather vanishes like magic
2021-06-20 13:57:48	msiism	Don't the Marines, or some Marines, make shoes now?
2021-06-20 13:57:51	c705	i even have blue light special sales
2021-06-20 13:58:04	Dagmar	Well, there's that.  I usually soak them in silicone protectant the moment I get them
2021-06-20 13:58:10	<--	stultusv (~Stultus_V@p7176066-ipoefx.ipoe.ocn.ne.jp) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-06-20 13:58:13	c705	Dagmar: maybe it was just a canadian thing? idk
2021-06-20 13:58:18	Dagmar	Could have been
2021-06-20 13:58:21	blackgatonegro	Had it to happen to a leather wristwatch the leather just... went to the great beyond
2021-06-20 13:58:22	-->	stultusv (~Stultus_V@p7176066-ipoefx.ipoe.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 13:58:27	c705	i'm getting queasy just thinking about it
2021-06-20 13:58:30	msiism	Oh, it's the Green Berets…
2021-06-20 13:58:33	<--	x88x88x (~x88x88x@188.214.106.69) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-20 13:58:41	Dagmar	There used to be several around here and none of them really had a restaurant in them that I can recall
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2021-06-20 13:59:04	blackgatonegro	You don't use silicone on leather you use... leather barnish or whatever you call it.
2021-06-20 13:59:22	c705	https://www.retrojunk.com/article/show/4445/remember-the-kcafzs
2021-06-20 13:59:33	Dagmar	No, you can use silicone.  The key is you have to use something that fills the holes where water would otherwise be absorbed and evaporate
2021-06-20 13:59:45	Dagmar	I own a lot of leather.
2021-06-20 14:00:11	-->	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:00:27	Dagmar	If you don't use a silicone or oil-based protectant, it's goign to dry, crack,s shrink and crumble in a couple years
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2021-06-20 14:00:54	blackgatonegro	for shoes the barnish things works better, my dad shoes lasted like a decade using that thing. After that well, there is wear and tear so better get new shoes.
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2021-06-20 14:01:22	Dagmar	THe Kiwi?  Yeah, same principle there.  It's an oil and dye in one
2021-06-20 14:01:52	blackgatonegro	I heard it called shoe grease too.
2021-06-20 14:02:04	Dagmar	Might as well be grease
2021-06-20 14:02:17	blackgatonegro	That's why is called that.
2021-06-20 14:02:20	-->	`deb (~relax@142.169.78.159) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:02:46	Dagmar	It's great on shoes, but I also have a wallet, a couple belts, a biker jacket and a full length leather trenchcoat to take care of.
2021-06-20 14:02:52	Dagmar	Those are where you use the silicone
2021-06-20 14:03:19	<--	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-20 14:03:26	blackgatonegro	for jackets well... is complicated. You can use Kiwi just... let it dry for a while first.
2021-06-20 14:03:30	-->	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:03:52	blackgatonegro	Looks amazing just wait a few days or you ruin your shirts
2021-06-20 14:04:05	Dagmar	Well, even after it dries you can "leave marks" on things
2021-06-20 14:04:15	-->	kattsand (~kattsand@c83-248-90-2.bredband.tele2.se) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:04:28	Dagmar	I may or may not be keeping in mind that I might need to apply kinetic force to things with my elbows sometimes
2021-06-20 14:04:32	blackgatonegro	Yeah, get a blowdrier or something
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2021-06-20 14:05:59	blackgatonegro	Ended gifting the jacket away too much maintenance work on it.
2021-06-20 14:06:00	Dagmar	Like, cops aren't going to buy that I accidentally bumped someone if there's a big black stain on their jaw
2021-06-20 14:06:14	Dagmar	I try really hard to avoid those situations
2021-06-20 14:06:23	-->	Antlers (~Antlers@70.39.121.42) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:06:28	blackgatonegro	That's why my jacket was brown
2021-06-20 14:06:39	-->	craigevil (craig@user/craigevil) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:06:46	blackgatonegro	If they see someone with a brown stain... heh
2021-06-20 14:07:05	<--	ncb (~ncb@user/ncb) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-20 14:07:43	Dagmar	I need to go after the trench with vinyl dye now it's so old
2021-06-20 14:08:03	<--	vptr (~vptr@user/vptr) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 14:08:07	Dagmar	...or perhaps just find a new one, but that might require a flight to somewhere.
2021-06-20 14:08:45	Dagmar	I bought it in a _bondage shop_ in SF, and Nashville is conspicuously short on those
2021-06-20 14:08:51	blackgatonegro	Again get a blow drier, remember to use some paper on the jacket before wearing it, if it dies too much, needs more blow -_~
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2021-06-20 14:09:47	blackgatonegro	You do it right it looks like it came right out of a good dry cleaner.
2021-06-20 14:09:52	-->	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e0e:5229::688b:d403) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:10:33	blackgatonegro	As I said way too much maintenance, not even getting into washing the leather once in a while with glicerine... ugh
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2021-06-20 14:11:01	k3v1n	oof windows 11 lookin fine
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2021-06-20 14:11:24	NGC3982	something is using a lot of bandwith over sshd. can i check what is currently happening there?
2021-06-20 14:11:25	-->	moto (~moto@user/moto) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:11:26	blackgatonegro	Glycerin I mean
2021-06-20 14:11:33	-->	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:11:43	blackgatonegro	Windows 11 looking like a Mac
2021-06-20 14:12:05	<--	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 14:12:13	blackgatonegro	As in "Wow this is right out of an older version of MacOs"
2021-06-20 14:12:14	c705	NGC3982: yes
2021-06-20 14:12:17	TJ-	NGC3982: try "w"
2021-06-20 14:12:39	-->	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:12:47	blackgatonegro	NGC3982 yeah check active process
2021-06-20 14:12:52	<--	markus____0123 (~markus@ip4-188-74-13-143.dyn.netcomnetz.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:12:57	k3v1n	naahhh Apple copied Microsoft
2021-06-20 14:13:19	c705	both of them stole from xerox
2021-06-20 14:13:19	blackgatonegro	Apple copied Linux
2021-06-20 14:13:21	<--	Antlers (~Antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:13:24	<--	xad231 (~xad231@2a02:560:41c7:a800:dae0:27c7:2118:e897) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-20 14:13:24	k3v1n	windows 11 is the future
2021-06-20 14:13:30	c705	everyone stole from xerox. case closed
2021-06-20 14:13:31	blackgatonegro	Yeah the back door was open
2021-06-20 14:13:45	<--	Brottweiler (~brott@user/brottweiler) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 14:14:09	blackgatonegro	k3v1n foest month ot will be like "How do I install the classic theme?'
2021-06-20 14:14:19	<--	LiftLeft (~LiftLeft@154.21.114.203) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:14:23	k3v1n	case re-opened xero just made a printer lol
2021-06-20 14:14:28	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:14:40	hexnewbie	Implying anyone stole from Xerox reflects badly on GNU/Linux, which has, under the same principle, stolen from UNIX (it's a clone, duh), CDE, Windows and macOS.
2021-06-20 14:15:09	-->	eroc1990 (~eroc1990@068-116-193-243.res.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 14:15:18	hexnewbie	KDE 1's desktop resolution dialog was *identical* to Windows 95's.
2021-06-20 14:15:21	blackgatonegro	Well NT stole from OS/2
2021-06-20 14:15:23	-->	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:15:34	c705	everyone stole from xerox. the mouse, the gui. the idea behind what a personal computer was
2021-06-20 14:15:58	-->	akoana (~ah@user/akoana) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:16:00	k3v1n	everyone will be using win11 and it will be amazing
2021-06-20 14:16:05	<--	SickBoy (~sickboy@2806:2f0:92c0:aa44:35b2:d399:5ddb:428a) has quit (Client Quit)
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2021-06-20 14:16:12	c705	imagine coming into a linux channel to talk about windows
2021-06-20 14:16:17	hexnewbie	I can only find the screensaver part (which is still amazingly Win95esque): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Screenshot_of_KDE_1_alpha.png
2021-06-20 14:16:58	k3v1n	i think linux has something to learn from them microsoft dudes
2021-06-20 14:17:04	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:17:11	blackgatonegro	Well... so steam for linux anyone using that?
2021-06-20 14:17:13	<--	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:17:19	ncb	i am
2021-06-20 14:17:38	blackgatonegro	I got like a game on it.
2021-06-20 14:17:49	catman	hexnewbie use plasma
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2021-06-20 14:18:21	k3v1n	i use i3 on windows :p its really comfy
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2021-06-20 14:18:45	blackgatonegro	I use playonlinux a lot
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2021-06-20 14:19:04	blackgatonegro	Mostly winrar, vlc and games
2021-06-20 14:19:34	<--	roni_ (~roni@207.248.198.186) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 14:19:38	c705	vlc has a linux build though?
2021-06-20 14:19:56	Bocaneri	o.O
2021-06-20 14:19:56	[[R]]	winrar? what is this 1990?
2021-06-20 14:20:10	Bocaneri	I thought vlc had Linux builds _before_ it had Windows builds.
2021-06-20 14:20:14	phogg	Everybody stole from Douglas Engelbart
2021-06-20 14:20:15	hexnewbie	And rar/unrar also has non-free versions which (except for rar?!) may have the source available. And even Krusader can be used for a frontend.
2021-06-20 14:20:19	c705	Bocaneri: it did indeed
2021-06-20 14:20:21	Bocaneri	Been using VLC on Linux for a couple decades, I think.
2021-06-20 14:20:24	blackgatonegro	Yeah but VLC linux build is less useful that mplayer2
2021-06-20 14:20:37	c705	blackgatonegro: what on earth are you talking about?
2021-06-20 14:20:38	Bocaneri	blackgatonegro, what makes you say that?
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2021-06-20 14:20:53	blackgatonegro	Testing the same videos in both
2021-06-20 14:21:00	hexnewbie	blackgatonegro: mplayer2? That died, got replaced with mplayer, all the while mplayer(2 or not) was obsoleted and replaced with mpv by most folks
2021-06-20 14:21:03	johnnyapol	I like file-roller as a winrar replacement
2021-06-20 14:21:05	blackgatonegro	mplayer2 ends winning
2021-06-20 14:21:21	blackgatonegro	well mplayer then
2021-06-20 14:21:24	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e0e:5229::688b:d403) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 14:21:31	c705	this smells like you didn't bother installing non-free codecs or something
2021-06-20 14:21:32	<--	ziper (~deamon@212.237.171.46) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:21:42	c705	vlc is fine, and it's been fine for the 20+ years i've been using it
2021-06-20 14:21:54	-->	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e0e:5229::688b:d403) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:22:00	hexnewbie	I haven't gotten to use non-free codecs in ages (although they never worked for 64 bit builds, I think)
2021-06-20 14:22:08	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 14:22:16	blackgatonegro	  c705 VLC Still works better on Windows for some reason.
2021-06-20 14:22:31	<--	farribeiro (~farribeir@fedora/farribeiro) has left #linux
2021-06-20 14:22:32	c705	i doubt that very much
2021-06-20 14:22:43	rascul	what is vlc doing better on windows?
2021-06-20 14:22:51	blackgatonegro	videos
2021-06-20 14:23:00	rascul	what is better aboutt it?
2021-06-20 14:23:21	blackgatonegro	resolution, less glitches, they play better.
2021-06-20 14:23:25	hexnewbie	“playing them”... sorry, couldn't resist 😜
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2021-06-20 14:23:54	ananke	'resolution'. say what?
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2021-06-20 14:24:00	blackgatonegro	maybe mplayer just gives me less trouble with my video card or something
2021-06-20 14:24:28	phogg	mplayer, not the oldest but still the best
2021-06-20 14:24:31	c705	throwing around lingo might fly in business meetings, but not here
2021-06-20 14:24:31	<--	odrling (~odrling@korone.aidoru.agency) has quit (Quit: see you space cowboy)
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2021-06-20 14:24:37	blackgatonegro	As in the same video plays better on mplayer compared to vlc linux on the same machine.
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2021-06-20 14:24:57	hexnewbie	#define better ??
2021-06-20 14:25:02	-->	odrling (~odrling@korone.aidoru.agency) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:25:02	c705	what distro are you using? debian?
2021-06-20 14:25:04	blackgatonegro	While it pixelates and lags on vlc
2021-06-20 14:25:11	blackgatonegro	Mint
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2021-06-20 14:25:24	phogg	hexnewbie: smoother playback (less framedropping, less CPU), more format support, better format support, better audio sync
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2021-06-20 14:25:45	hexnewbie	I've been using mpv with smplayer since like forever (when I found kaffeine sucked?)
2021-06-20 14:26:00	phogg	vlc works more-or-less, but it is flawed. I've had hit and miss success with gstreamer, xine, and vlc based playback off and on--but mplayer has always been rock solid.
2021-06-20 14:26:13	phogg	mpv is just a fork of mplayer, so it's no wonder it does pretty well
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2021-06-20 14:26:24	phogg	smplayer is a front end for mplayer or mpv, so it is also fine
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2021-06-20 14:26:44	phogg	Anyone remember pre-mplayer video playback on Linux? It was pretty brutal.
2021-06-20 14:27:43	hexnewbie	I don't think I've played any video before mplayer. I remember using something that was loading Windows DLLs first, which *must* have been mplayer
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2021-06-20 14:27:56	phogg	hexnewbie: yes, only mplayer has ever done that
2021-06-20 14:28:04	blackgatonegro	smplayer tends to be my default in mint, in puppy I use vlc because there aren't that many options.
2021-06-20 14:28:24	phogg	hexnewbie: the devs were always concerned with results more than correctness, and that was a lifeline in the early days. No native support? No problem, they found a way.
2021-06-20 14:28:45	phogg	hexnewbie: haven't needed to load DLLs for years now, but AFAIK it still can
2021-06-20 14:28:53	<--	ionutb (~ionut@user/ionutb) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 14:29:10	[[R]]	phogg: like in jurassic park? code finds a way...
2021-06-20 14:29:28	c705	i've never ever had any problem with vlc
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2021-06-20 14:29:43	phogg	if you've never had any problems then congratulations! You're lucky
2021-06-20 14:29:51	Bocaneri	I've recently had a problem with mplayer - it gets the tracks on the Hunger Games DVDs mixed up. VLC doesn't. Otherwise, I've been using mplayer almost exclusively for YEARS with virtually zero issue.
2021-06-20 14:29:57	rascul	i've never ever had any problems with c705
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2021-06-20 14:30:07	phogg	more likely you've never noticed problems, but still if everything has always played correctly then I'm glad. That's definitely not my experience with VLC.
2021-06-20 14:30:20	hexnewbie	The loader exists, lists dlls in mplayer -vc list for both 32 and 64 bit builds, but I've never found *any* release of w64codecs except for one that had like two files in it
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2021-06-20 14:30:42	blackgatonegro	Bocaneri that's due to the tracks file names VLC may be able to play them correctly.
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2021-06-20 14:30:53	phogg	hexnewbie: I had a lot more than 2 in the beginning, but only two were needed for any long period of time
2021-06-20 14:31:07	phogg	Bocaneri: even with dvdnav?
2021-06-20 14:31:09	<--	gtlsgamr (uid464455@stonehaven.irccloud.com) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-20 14:31:27	Bocaneri	phogg, I don't know how to use dvdnav, forgot it even existed.
2021-06-20 14:31:36	blackgatonegro	Usually on a fat distro like mint I get VLC and mplayer and maybe some other video player
2021-06-20 14:31:44	c705	i blame your distro
2021-06-20 14:31:54	-->	Ivyy (~Ivyy@2001:a62:41d:fa01:af4c:e063:c46b:4788) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 14:31:56	phogg	Bocaneri: dvdnav:// is the "do things correctly" dvd playing implementation. The old dvd one is just left in for compat, it's not recommended (not for a decad)
2021-06-20 14:31:58	phogg	er, decade
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2021-06-20 14:32:36	blackgatonegro	The problem is that DVDs can have the file names not be in order so unless you play the DVD in a DVD player they can play out of order.
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2021-06-20 14:32:54	phogg	blackgatonegro: dvdnav takes care of that by supporting dvd menus
2021-06-20 14:32:57	hexnewbie	phogg: I mean like the 32 bit package with codecs is 10 MB, the 64 bit one is 243KB
2021-06-20 14:33:08	blackgatonegro	phogg cool
2021-06-20 14:33:43	Bocaneri	So, I'd say "mplayer dvdnav://1", for example?
2021-06-20 14:33:48	hexnewbie	phogg: Looking at http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/ - so codecs no longer supported due to effectively not existing on amd64 builds
2021-06-20 14:34:06	phogg	Bocaneri: you can, but you can also omit the track number and see the menu, and I believe you can specify a track by title as well (but I generally don't)
2021-06-20 14:34:18	 *	Bocaneri tries this
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2021-06-20 14:35:05	Bocaneri	Well, hell, that was simple enough!
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2021-06-20 14:35:20	phogg	that's why they added it
2021-06-20 14:35:41	Bocaneri	Smart folks. Now maybe I can forget I had VLC installed.
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2021-06-20 14:37:05	phogg	Bocaneri: the only problem I've had with dvdnav is when displaying the dvd menu and trying to interact with it via the mouse. This is... iffy.
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2021-06-20 14:37:46	Bocaneri	Mine won't do it. I hit ENTER and it started playing.
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2021-06-20 14:38:04	Bocaneri	I think that's why I forgot I had dvdnav. It WON'T honour the mouse.
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2021-06-20 14:38:39	phogg	Bocaneri: you need -mouse-movements to attempt it
2021-06-20 14:39:00	phogg	the results are iffy. Some menus work, some really don'
2021-06-20 14:39:03	phogg	er, don't
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2021-06-20 14:40:04	Bocaneri	Oh, well. I've had problems with exactly ONE set of DVDs in all these years. I'll live.
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2021-06-20 14:51:27	blackgatonegro	Eventually most used codecs will be all in 64x
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2021-06-20 15:03:02	knull	may seem like an ammetuer question to some people but i was just wondering is the sudo command the same as the superuser or root or does it have any limitations?
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2021-06-20 15:03:58	Shenka	in simplest of terms, sudo is going to be safer than messing around with superuser or directly with a root account.
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2021-06-20 15:04:11	blackgatonegro	sudo has no limitations that's the problem
2021-06-20 15:04:18	blackgatonegro	Is a huge hammer
2021-06-20 15:04:21	knull	ah ok i see
2021-06-20 15:04:39	knull	sounds kinda broken
2021-06-20 15:04:43	blackgatonegro	Well yeah is a bit safer that log in as root
2021-06-20 15:04:56	knull	hmm ok
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2021-06-20 15:05:09	Shenka	sudo also has the benefit that scripts can check if something isnt meant to be run in sudo (since it becomes a force of habit) and prevent it from executing
2021-06-20 15:05:15	Shenka	which is a nice fail safe
2021-06-20 15:05:16	blackgatonegro	But still you shouldn't use sudo for everything
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2021-06-20 15:05:35	knull	thanks for the explanation guys :]
2021-06-20 15:05:40	Shenka	oh yea 100%. sudo isnt a catch all whatsoever and shoudl be used from an educated standpoint.
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2021-06-20 15:05:53	blackgatonegro	Depends on what you are doing, sudo can still force things.
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2021-06-20 15:06:31	blackgatonegro	Things have got better but there is still of packages that don't have an anti sudo coding so...
2021-06-20 15:07:19	HumbleGuy	Please help, my microphone is not working, i enabled my codec driver in kernel but its still not working
2021-06-20 15:07:33	Dagmar	Mostly sudo protects by running the specified command and exiting back to your normal user account, so you don't wind up in the habit of keeping that # prompt open for trivial stuff, where a housecat stepping on a mousebutton can cause a terrifying mis-paste
2021-06-20 15:07:56	blackgatonegro	Honesty it would be better to have an easy "run just this as administrator but without ALL THE POWAR" command.
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2021-06-20 15:08:10	Dagmar	I say that having just had a bunch of stored SQL procedures get pasted into a terminal by s
2021-06-20 15:08:13	Dagmar	aid cat just yesterday
2021-06-20 15:08:26	blackgatonegro	HumbleGuy do you have pulseaudip or alsa?
2021-06-20 15:08:28	Dagmar	The same cat who just thwapped the damn enter key with his tail.  lol
2021-06-20 15:08:50	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, i have both, i think
2021-06-20 15:09:00	moo	or a cat typing an extra space inside your command rm -rf ./your/random/stuff / to/remove
2021-06-20 15:09:01	moo	hehe
2021-06-20 15:09:08	Dagmar	Yepo
2021-06-20 15:09:22	moo	i did this once without a help of cat =D
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2021-06-20 15:09:37	knull	is tails os a fully functioning linux ditribution or is it limited compared to distributions like kali linux
2021-06-20 15:09:44	moo	rm -rf some/prefix/dir /usr/bin
2021-06-20 15:09:44	blackgatonegro	Try pulseadio open a audio recording program and hit the record button then check the active streams window and put the volume to 100%
2021-06-20 15:10:01	Dagmar	knull: Mainly it's operated in an "appliance" role
2021-06-20 15:10:03	blackgatonegro	The active streams on pulseaudio
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2021-06-20 15:10:09	moo	kali is not a normal distro, and neither is tails. they have very specific usage
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2021-06-20 15:10:25	Dagmar	knull: It's set up with specific goals and a narrower use-case in mind than a general purpose distribution
2021-06-20 15:10:28	blackgatonegro	Yeah
2021-06-20 15:10:32	knull	oh ok
2021-06-20 15:10:35	xrogaan	I have a problem with emails signed with '.p7s' smime. It takes forever for gpg to tell me that it couldn't verify the signature. Anybody know what the hell are p7s signatures?
2021-06-20 15:10:40	blackgatonegro	You want general use mint
2021-06-20 15:10:51	xrogaan	mimetype: application/pkcs7-sign
2021-06-20 15:10:52	knull	is ubuntu good for general use?
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2021-06-20 15:10:56	moo	is kali still running everything as root?
2021-06-20 15:11:01	moo	yes it is
2021-06-20 15:11:03	Shenka	yea ubuntu is always a safe bet when you’re starting out
2021-06-20 15:11:06	DLange	xrogaan: SMIME
2021-06-20 15:11:06	Dagmar	xrogan: Normal signatures, actually.  It's probbaly looking for some directory system that you don't have configured
2021-06-20 15:11:11	Shenka	hard to fuck up ubuntu lol
2021-06-20 15:11:13	blackgatonegro	knull I prefer mint but ubuntu is okay
2021-06-20 15:11:18	Shenka	btw i use arch
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2021-06-20 15:11:30	Shenka	well used. i dont own any computers compatible with linux anymore :/
2021-06-20 15:11:32	blackgatonegro	Shenka save with kernel updates and video drivers
2021-06-20 15:11:36	xrogaan	DLange: I mean, yeah. It's right there in the status.
2021-06-20 15:11:40	Dagmar	Shenka: This is an excellent time to mention the saying about "the universe can always make better idiots"
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2021-06-20 15:11:53	moo	lol i have to remember that
2021-06-20 15:11:59	DLange	xrogaan: SMIME has nothing to do with gpg, different types of signatures
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2021-06-20 15:12:04	Dagmar	They make it hard, but lots of Ubuntu users really apply themselves.
2021-06-20 15:12:06	Shenka	okay yea its definitely possible but like thats the safest linux distro out there unless yall count chromeOS which i dont
2021-06-20 15:12:13	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, nothing shows up at recording tab
2021-06-20 15:12:18	DLange	xrogaan: Thunderbird can do these (and so can other MUAs)
2021-06-20 15:12:19	knull	im still pretty new to linux and im still trying to explore all the different advantages of it because im still on a ubuntu windows subsystem for linux
2021-06-20 15:12:37	-->	rtx (~rtx@user/rtx) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:12:39	xrogaan	DLange: I'd need an authority to check against then?
2021-06-20 15:12:40	Shenka	ah ive never used window’s iterations of linux environments so im not familiar with all of that
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2021-06-20 15:12:55	blackgatonegro	Okay there is a tad were you can pick the active devices, check to see if the mic is on
2021-06-20 15:13:01	knull	its basically just ubuntu but only through terminal command line no GUI at all
2021-06-20 15:13:13	xrogaan	I ditched thunderbird as it closed its gpg system. Need my keys available on the whole system.
2021-06-20 15:13:27	Shenka	yea. thats neat. still wouldnt be enough to make me switch to windows ever again though lol
2021-06-20 15:13:33	Shenka	especially with how god awful ugly windows 11 is
2021-06-20 15:13:43	knull	yeah windows 11 looks disgusting
2021-06-20 15:13:44	Dagmar	xrogaan: They haven't readded compile-time options to access the user's keyring mechanism yet?
2021-06-20 15:13:49	Dagmar	That's kind of unexpected
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2021-06-20 15:14:08	Dagmar	I would have thought they'd be happy to let something else do the heavy lifting on that
2021-06-20 15:14:09	DLange	xrogaan: yes, SMIME are (like) SSL certs, you need to trust an issuing CA
2021-06-20 15:14:10	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, my mic is on, volume 100%
2021-06-20 15:14:35	knull	I mean to be honest I really like windows subsystem for linux because i can switch from to different systems in a matter of seconds its pretty neat
2021-06-20 15:14:45	knull	2 differenr*
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2021-06-20 15:15:03	kodah	i'm kind of surprised there's not better free alternatives to thunderbird yet
2021-06-20 15:15:06	c705	i've been able to do that on linux for years now
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2021-06-20 15:15:25	c705	kodah: mutt
2021-06-20 15:15:28	blackgatonegro	Do you have the mic is the right port? Maybe you plugged it in the onboard sound card by accident, that sound card tends to be disabled if you have a different sound card enabled.
2021-06-20 15:15:29	Shenka	knull: yea but windows lol
2021-06-20 15:15:42	moo	c705: nice joke, you can as well say emacs
2021-06-20 15:15:50	Shenka	me trying to navigate and use windows feels like im swinging a hammer at a wall to make a temporary door
2021-06-20 15:15:55	c705	where's the joke part?
2021-06-20 15:15:57	xrogaan	smime is kind of shit.
2021-06-20 15:16:01	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, my mic is integrated in the laptop
2021-06-20 15:16:02	moo	its in no way comparable
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2021-06-20 15:16:15	Dagmar	Evolution is still around, last I checked.
2021-06-20 15:16:16	c705	comparable to what?
2021-06-20 15:16:20	kodah	c705: is this one of drew devaults projects?
2021-06-20 15:16:31	blackgatonegro	Okay go to the input devices tab and see if the mic is enabled there.
2021-06-20 15:16:34	knull	Shenka: yeah i know im still finding it hard to make a complete switch to linux just because im so used to windows 10
2021-06-20 15:16:47	c705	mutt is an mta. thunderbird is an mta.
2021-06-20 15:16:57	c705	kodah: i don't know, mutt's been around longer than I have
2021-06-20 15:17:02	ddevault	MUA*
2021-06-20 15:17:04	ddevault	postfix is an MTA
2021-06-20 15:17:08	moo	thunderbird can receive emails, mutt cannot
2021-06-20 15:17:09	c705	yes, mua thank you
2021-06-20 15:17:11	ddevault	the project you're thinking of is aerc, kodah
2021-06-20 15:17:14	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, its enabled https://imgur.com/kzjqUKL.png
2021-06-20 15:17:15	Dagmar	Even I am not keen on using a mail client with a cell-based display anymore
2021-06-20 15:17:22	blackgatonegro	Anyone tested fairmail? Is any good?
2021-06-20 15:17:23	moo	+ the way you use either of them etc
2021-06-20 15:17:23	c705	moo: are you high or something?
2021-06-20 15:17:27	kodah	ddevault: ah, that's right. it looked like one of yours though
2021-06-20 15:17:28	Shenka	knull: it takes time and effort for sure. personally i just jumped right in and never looked back. but dont let familiarity hold you back
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2021-06-20 15:17:49	moo	mutt reads your Maildir/mailbox, it doesn't connect to imap or anything
2021-06-20 15:17:55	knull	Shenka: Ah ok bold move
2021-06-20 15:17:57	c705	yes it can
2021-06-20 15:17:57	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Tehre's also things like SOGo and Roundcube now
2021-06-20 15:18:04	knull	anyway i have to go now farewell
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2021-06-20 15:18:12	Shenka	linux/GNU isnt as terrifying as people think it is. most of the fear comes from the unfamiliar
2021-06-20 15:18:34	Dagmar	Turns out it's actually a bit easier to just generate an interface in HTML and Javascript than it is to deal with Qt/Gtk/WxWindows
2021-06-20 15:18:37	moo	oh TIL, sorry. last i used it 10 years ago it was much less pleasant lol
2021-06-20 15:18:48	moo	having postfix and all other stuff there
2021-06-20 15:19:05	c705	mutt could connect via imap 10 years ago as well
2021-06-20 15:19:27	kodah	time to brush my Vue3 skills up and bastardize email with some electron goodness
2021-06-20 15:19:28	blackgatonegro	HumbleGuy okay go to a recording audio program like audacity pick the mic there and hit the red record button then go to the recording tab in pulse audio to see if you see something there.
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2021-06-20 15:20:03	kodah	i'm currently writing a forum that's only accessible over CLI
2021-06-20 15:20:07	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, wait, audacity is still compiling (i am on gentoo)
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2021-06-20 15:20:14	blackgatonegro	Okay
2021-06-20 15:20:15	eqw	my system has hanged: the keyboard doesn't respond for numlock(it is on), there's the same picture on the screen, even after me stopping LightDM. It responds via ssh, though. Is there something else I can try?
2021-06-20 15:20:31	xrogaan	eqw: restart Xorg
2021-06-20 15:20:45	xrogaan	or your desktop manager
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2021-06-20 15:20:58	blackgatonegro	eqw try using a different keyboard?
2021-06-20 15:21:07	eqw	xrogaan: it is already stopped
2021-06-20 15:21:07	Dagmar	eqw: Sudo up and kill X with sigterm and then sigkill if that didn't work
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2021-06-20 15:21:30	Dagmar	X _should_ let go of the keyboard when it dies of
2021-06-20 15:21:33	xrogaan	Either Xorg froze, or a driver crashed or whatever.
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2021-06-20 15:22:06	xrogaan	eqw: don't stop it, end it
2021-06-20 15:22:16	blackgatonegro	Unless you just had a kernel update and reboot then it may be a compatibility thing.
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2021-06-20 15:22:44	eqw	there's no such process
2021-06-20 15:23:13	Dagmar	You _sure_ about that?  `ps -ef | grep X` should be a pretty short list
2021-06-20 15:23:23	kodah	there's another option: wayland-gang
2021-06-20 15:23:26	<--	ralinux (~saje@37.156.188.8) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:23:28	xrogaan	or `pgrep -a Xorg`
2021-06-20 15:23:41	xrogaan	ah, wayland. People use that thing?
2021-06-20 15:23:52	c705	i do
2021-06-20 15:23:55	kodah	si
2021-06-20 15:23:56	 *	eqw doesn't use wayland
2021-06-20 15:23:59	c705	X sucks
2021-06-20 15:24:21	Dagmar	Wayland will be a valuable asset once they've chased down about a zillion edge cases
2021-06-20 15:24:21	blackgatonegro	I am not quite sure whay wayland is besides something steam uses for games.
2021-06-20 15:24:22	kodah	it works well for my purposes
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2021-06-20 15:24:24	Shenka	is wayland usable now? its been like 8 years since ive kept up with it lol
2021-06-20 15:24:28	eqw	 Dagmar: it shows grep only
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2021-06-20 15:24:32	xrogaan	eqw: if Xorg isn't running, and lightdm isn't running, and nothing is running, restart your computer.
2021-06-20 15:24:52	Dagmar	Yeah if X has died and the screen and keyboard are still wedged, rebooting is the next reasonable option
2021-06-20 15:25:04	c705	yes, wayland is fine if you can live with the things that it breaks like screen sharing
2021-06-20 15:25:06	xrogaan	or simply `service restart lightdm`
2021-06-20 15:25:13	--	bernard__ is now known as elnegro
2021-06-20 15:25:24	xrogaan	if you use systemd, it's probably it's fault.
2021-06-20 15:25:52	--	tesseract is now known as highness
2021-06-20 15:25:53	eqw	 `sudo service lightdm start` doesn't help
2021-06-20 15:25:53	c705	it probably isn't, but it doesn't make troubleshooting it any easier
2021-06-20 15:25:57	Shenka	systemd is amazing
2021-06-20 15:26:13	xrogaan	amazingly shit, yeah.
2021-06-20 15:26:14	c705	systemctl restart lightdm
2021-06-20 15:26:18	Dagmar	I'm amazed it hasn't managed to kill anyone
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2021-06-20 15:26:28	c705	okay, lets not start the systemd faeces throwing contest, thank you
2021-06-20 15:26:29	kodah	wayland still has some bugs, but it's pretty small (yet possibly annoying) things, but the benefits it offers are pretty dang good
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2021-06-20 15:26:33	Shenka	xrogaan: its so simple to set up and maintain though. what do you use?
2021-06-20 15:26:47	xrogaan	anything but.
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2021-06-20 15:26:58	Shenka	btw i use arch
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2021-06-20 15:27:02	Dagmar	Shenka: Oh you _set up_ systemd did you:?"
2021-06-20 15:27:13	-->	Thanatos (~Thanatos@165.22.184.59) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:27:14	Dagmar	You didn't just use someone's configuration?
2021-06-20 15:27:16	<--	ruben (~ruben@2a02:a03f:6513:5e00:a813:2e33:d31f:1d78) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:27:19	kodah	Shenka: you're late to the game. it's "btw i use gentoo" now
2021-06-20 15:27:31	Shenka	no, ive made the config files too lol
2021-06-20 15:27:45	c705	you eman arch isn't the hispster distro any more? what happened?
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2021-06-20 15:27:49	xrogaan	eqw: have you checked the log, if there are any?
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2021-06-20 15:27:55	Dagmar	Plain sysv is still easier
2021-06-20 15:27:56	Shenka	kodah: is it really? im not too surprised to hear that.
2021-06-20 15:28:01	kodah	c705: it got out-hipstered, as hipsters do
2021-06-20 15:28:13	c705	interesting
2021-06-20 15:28:21	Shenka	i feel so old even the memes of linux im used to are dead :(
2021-06-20 15:28:34	kodah	turns out, if you make a craft-OS more craftier than the previous craft-OS, it will supercede said craft-OS
2021-06-20 15:28:38	blackgatonegro	HumbleGuy in alsa just turn every audio option to 100%.
2021-06-20 15:28:46	kodah	read: craft as in craft beer
2021-06-20 15:28:56	blackgatonegro	Shenka the terminal lives on
2021-06-20 15:29:02	c705	i stopped using arch the 3rd time it broke my pc
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2021-06-20 15:29:30	Shenka	im most comfortable with arch which is why i stick with it most of the time. but for servers i use OpenSUSE Leap
2021-06-20 15:29:33	blackgatonegro	I stopped using ubuntu when they made unity the default; wow that was ages ago.
2021-06-20 15:29:41	kodah	i'm just lazy. compiling things isn't fun anymore.
2021-06-20 15:29:41	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:29:43	Shenka	oh man the unity debacle. good times
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2021-06-20 15:30:06	[[R]]	blackgatonegro: stopping to use something because of a default you don't like... sounds about right
2021-06-20 15:30:14	blackgatonegro	Tried it again when they got rid of unity, didn't like the gui, went back to xubuntu, nowadays I use mint.
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2021-06-20 15:30:28	Dagmar	Meh.  Unity was nasty.
2021-06-20 15:30:31	kodah	mint is good
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2021-06-20 15:30:40	Shenka	if yall wanna hate me more i also swear by i3wm
2021-06-20 15:30:44	c705	compiling sucks. i'd be amazed if gentoo actually was the go to choice for kids these days. who the hell wants to compile steam every week or whatever
2021-06-20 15:30:45	kodah	i imagine unified environments are the next big hurdle in linux
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2021-06-20 15:31:01	blackgatonegro	Unity was... far too incomplete you needed to be a terminal wizard to do anything with it.
2021-06-20 15:31:02	kodah	since Apple, Microsoft, and Google made that a thing people want
2021-06-20 15:31:06	akik	kodah: what's that?
2021-06-20 15:31:09	Shenka	i dont want a unified environment in linux tbh.
2021-06-20 15:31:09	sheep	the problem isn't compiling steam, it's compiling qtwebengine and chromium
2021-06-20 15:31:16	xrogaan	dude
2021-06-20 15:31:16	Shenka	> chromium
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2021-06-20 15:31:24	c705	big 5head..
2021-06-20 15:31:27	Dagmar	Oh god
2021-06-20 15:31:34	kodah	akik: like how macOS has all those network services that bridge functionality between your phone and desktop
2021-06-20 15:31:40	xrogaan	that's why I'll never use gentoo. Minimum requirement is 36GiB of ram.
2021-06-20 15:31:42	blackgatonegro	c705 mint is growing and growing in popularity due to ubuntu questionable choices
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2021-06-20 15:32:01	akik	when gnome 3 became some kind of defacto standard, i knew the game was over
2021-06-20 15:32:05	Shenka	xrogaan: you dont have a TB of ram? wtf kinda dinosaur you using
2021-06-20 15:32:07	blackgatonegro	chromium spyware ahoy
2021-06-20 15:32:08	c705	ubuntu has had questionable choices for at least 10 years, whatever they're doing now isn't any different
2021-06-20 15:32:30	Shenka	to be fair we aren’t ubuntu’s main demographic anymore. havent been for a long time
2021-06-20 15:32:31	blackgatonegro	Funny I haven't used ubuntu for almost that long
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2021-06-20 15:32:59	phogg	Shenka: you're not human? Isn't their motto "Linux for humans"?
2021-06-20 15:33:03	kodah	i always thought ubuntu would become the MS of linux but that hasn't played out
2021-06-20 15:33:06	TJ-	Ubuntu's prime demographic is server, and 'app' developers
2021-06-20 15:33:10	Shenka	damn didnt know they labelled me subhuman smh
2021-06-20 15:33:12	blackgatonegro	I dunno, unless they make ubuntu look like windows 11, they are not hiting the nooba either
2021-06-20 15:33:17	Shenka	this is just like my last job all over again
2021-06-20 15:33:18	xrogaan	Somebody described Gnome's UI as "fisher-price tablet nonsense", and I kind of agree.
2021-06-20 15:33:39	kodah	oof
2021-06-20 15:33:43	akik	somebody just said that non-writable root is coming to fedora on two separate projects
2021-06-20 15:33:52	<--	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 15:33:55	Shenka	ubuntu is placing itself as the defacto linux distro, which theyve successfully done imo. their growth is based on that, nothing more.
2021-06-20 15:33:56	kodah	i use gnome 3 on PopOS and i wouldn't call it "fisher price"
2021-06-20 15:33:57	blackgatonegro	I mean is just a few edits, a few filters, a theme, not that hard to copy a look and add a wizard/tutorial
2021-06-20 15:34:05	Shenka	plenty of people will explore linux enough to use ubuntu and never move beyond that
2021-06-20 15:34:16	akik	gnome 3 doesn't passwd the rms smell test
2021-06-20 15:34:21	akik	pass
2021-06-20 15:34:27	blackgatonegro	Mint is nice is very easy to move from ubuntu to mint
2021-06-20 15:34:35	akik	i.e. whether you control the program or the program controls you
2021-06-20 15:34:39	blackgatonegro	Mate is great.
2021-06-20 15:34:41	[[R]]	well seeing as mint is ubunut...
2021-06-20 15:34:42	Shenka	mint is versatile. it’s design doesnt impact functionality
2021-06-20 15:34:43	kodah	akik: what is the purpose of non-writable root?
2021-06-20 15:34:47	Shenka	unlike every major OS these days
2021-06-20 15:34:48	kodah	to user-constrain everything?
2021-06-20 15:34:54	akik	kodah: safe spaces i guess
2021-06-20 15:34:55	blackgatonegro	kodah safety
2021-06-20 15:35:00	c705	are these mint bots or something?
2021-06-20 15:35:04	Shenka	like seriously i dont get how powerusers still stick with windows at all.
2021-06-20 15:35:13	kodah	safety?
2021-06-20 15:35:17	c705	i haven't seen people this excited over mint since that seinfeld episode
2021-06-20 15:35:31	<--	Antlers (~Antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:35:41	Shenka	oh man seinfeld. forgot that existed
2021-06-20 15:35:44	blackgatonegro	Well I would love to use puppy linux for everything but the poor dog is just not made for that.
2021-06-20 15:35:45	[[R]]	c705: who doesn't like a junior mint!
2021-06-20 15:35:55	c705	[[R]]: THEYRE VERY REFERESHING
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2021-06-20 15:36:00	blackgatonegro	Shenka is the games
2021-06-20 15:36:01	akik	kodah: yes when the project decides it's for your own good WHO ARE YOU TO SAY OTHERWISE?
2021-06-20 15:36:12	Dagmar	People whose parents were killed by wild mints, that's who.
2021-06-20 15:36:14	Shenka	also guys im a little confused. i installed kali linux and typed “pentagon” into my terminal but it didnt do a hack? please help
2021-06-20 15:36:17	kodah	akik: seems like that's a world wide theme these days
2021-06-20 15:36:18	xrogaan	eqw: have you succeeded at taming your computer?
2021-06-20 15:36:53	kodah	i'll stick to my footgun
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2021-06-20 15:36:58	blackgatonegro	Shenka try some easier linux?
2021-06-20 15:36:58	[[R]]	Shenka: you need to type in 'gibson'
2021-06-20 15:37:09	akik	did ubuntu already remove the icons from the desktop in gnome shell?
2021-06-20 15:37:13	Shenka	[[R]]: damn how noob of me
2021-06-20 15:37:17	kodah	wait wat
2021-06-20 15:37:21	Shenka	*slams hands on keyboard* guys im in
2021-06-20 15:37:36	<--	edman007 (~edman007@user/edman007) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 15:37:37	kodah	akik: as in making desktop icons impossible or just removing the plugin by default?
2021-06-20 15:37:53	blackgatonegro	Shenka honesty doesn't deli have a faq webpage?
2021-06-20 15:37:54	akik	kodah: gnome proper doesn't have them and ubuntu had to put them back
2021-06-20 15:37:56	kodah	also, gnomes plugin system constantly breaks my environment. that's my gripe.
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2021-06-20 15:38:08	Shenka	do they?
2021-06-20 15:38:08	blackgatonegro	Use KDE
2021-06-20 15:38:16	kodah	i did use KDE for a long time
2021-06-20 15:38:30	blackgatonegro	KDE is back to being good again
2021-06-20 15:38:36	Shenka	glad to hear KDE is still killing it
2021-06-20 15:38:41	Shenka	they were doing awesome shit back in the day
2021-06-20 15:38:42	kodah	my phone runs plasma mobile, but i still can't figure out how to write an app in anything other than C++
2021-06-20 15:38:43	blackgatonegro	Hurry up before they ruin it again
2021-06-20 15:39:00	Shenka	is plasma mobile usable in the states?
2021-06-20 15:39:04	kodah	no
2021-06-20 15:39:10	blackgatonegro	kodah Use C?
2021-06-20 15:39:11	<--	lucerne (~lucerne@ip202.ip-51-178-215.eu) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 15:39:12	Shenka	damn. still waiting for the day
2021-06-20 15:39:28	Shenka	the day a linux mobile environment is usable is the day ill eat my ass
2021-06-20 15:39:46	kodah	blackgatonegro: yes, yes, C is always an option. i really want to write phone apps in Go or Rust because i'm a hipster at my core.
2021-06-20 15:39:51	-->	alzgh (~alzgh@216.155.158.214) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:40:08	Shenka	just write in Java, easy.
2021-06-20 15:40:09	blackgatonegro	Shenka well android is based on linux
2021-06-20 15:40:12	kodah	Rust would probably work but Go needs very specific bindings that aren't there
2021-06-20 15:40:14	kodah	oookay
2021-06-20 15:40:19	blackgatonegro	Java is a tad heavy
2021-06-20 15:40:24	blackgatonegro	for mobile
2021-06-20 15:40:25	Shenka	blackgatonegro: how dare you. we all know that means nothing lmao
2021-06-20 15:40:30	Shenka	i know im memeing
2021-06-20 15:40:40	Shenka	i despise java with a deep rooted hatred that i should honestly talk to a therapist about
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2021-06-20 15:41:01	eqw	xrogaan: no success, no problem in logs. I'm going outdoor for an hour.
2021-06-20 15:41:02	kodah	the only time i write in Java is when i'm paid and coerced into doing so
2021-06-20 15:41:06	blackgatonegro	The problem is, is hard to keep with all the hardware updates smartphones do.
2021-06-20 15:41:08	Shenka	^ 100%
2021-06-20 15:41:09	kodah	both conditions must be met
2021-06-20 15:41:12	-->	Time-Warp (Time-Warp@fedora/Time-Warp) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:41:22	Shenka	like when i do a skill assessment for a potential employer. they ALWAYS ask for java
2021-06-20 15:41:25	Time-Warp	!calc 2*x=12
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2021-06-20 15:41:31	blackgatonegro	So at beast you can have a degoogled android
2021-06-20 15:41:36	c705	i won't apply to a job if it mentions java at all
2021-06-20 15:41:37	Shenka	like no thanks rather stab my eyes with a used heroin needle
2021-06-20 15:41:46	Shenka	c705: oh they never do.
2021-06-20 15:41:56	c705	what? yes they do
2021-06-20 15:41:56	kodah	all the FAANG's require Java
2021-06-20 15:42:02	blackgatonegro	Yes they do cause they think C is useless those fools.
2021-06-20 15:42:06	Shenka	they mention python, R, SQl, basic data analytics stuff. but the skill assessment still always includes java
2021-06-20 15:42:08	c705	and those are the jobs i chuckle to myself at, and then never apply
2021-06-20 15:42:14	Shenka	oh i meant like its always a trap
2021-06-20 15:42:20	Shenka	like even if i avoid listings that mention java it still comes up
2021-06-20 15:42:29	blackgatonegro	C may be hard but it does almost everything
2021-06-20 15:42:34	FuriousGeorge	is it just me or does there seem to be a some randomness to how linux allocates processor time to threads?  i notice if i start five ./resource_intensive_commands in parallel, some finish much faster than others
2021-06-20 15:42:42	kodah	most jobs that have required me to produce code in java for an interview never actually required java
2021-06-20 15:42:43	FuriousGeorge	and if i do it again, the results may not be the same
2021-06-20 15:42:50	kodah	mainly because of condition 2
2021-06-20 15:42:58	<--	Badontish (~albin@h109-124-159-149.cust.a3fiber.se) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-06-20 15:43:01	Shenka	kodah: most give you the option thankfully. as long as i have a choice ill avoid java
2021-06-20 15:43:17	blackgatonegro	FuriousGeorge depends on what the threads do.
2021-06-20 15:43:40	FuriousGeorge	blackgatonegro:  a lot of file io, compression, etc
2021-06-20 15:43:45	blackgatonegro	 kodah that's cause copy pasta most likely
2021-06-20 15:44:05	kodah	i was going to make a joke about writing production services in lisp before i write java but i've actually done that
2021-06-20 15:44:13	<--	tscopp (~tms@c-76-115-26-235.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:44:23	blackgatonegro	FuriousGeorge even similar threads won't finish at the same time as not all tasks take the same time.
2021-06-20 15:44:34	<--	sheepduck (~sheepduck@user/sheepduck) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 15:44:37	Shenka	ah god i wish i had a computer that could run linux. i miss it so much
2021-06-20 15:44:49	Shenka	im so desperate ill ssh into my server and just fuck around so i can pretend
2021-06-20 15:44:57	kodah	Shenka: all computers are linux computers if you try hard enough
2021-06-20 15:44:59	-->	sheepduck (~sheepduck@user/sheepduck) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 15:45:06	blackgatonegro	Shenka you could try a live version on a usb flash drive?
2021-06-20 15:45:32	Shenka	nah. i own an M1 Mac, and a 2019 Macbook Pro. the T2 security chip makes things very difficult. none of my models even have functioning wifi or function keys yet
2021-06-20 15:45:36	blackgatonegro	Yeah once ran linux on a machine with only 256 of ram, good times.
2021-06-20 15:45:46	FuriousGeorge	i have nvme on pci lanes, and i run one process per ssd.  the process takes hours, then loops.  some processes are consistently slower than others, and if i kill them and restart them, they often speed up
2021-06-20 15:45:50	kodah	linux on m1's is a thing
2021-06-20 15:45:51	--	Antlers is now known as antlers
2021-06-20 15:45:53	Shenka	like the macbook pro coudl easily run linux. but apple so :)
2021-06-20 15:46:07	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:46:10	Shenka	it is. but its not very functional because ARM support aint perfected yet. so itd be more work than its worth.
2021-06-20 15:46:13	FuriousGeorge	there is little difference in terms of performance among the ssds, and some are identical, or identical make larger model
2021-06-20 15:46:20	blackgatonegro	Shenka you can make a VM but... yeah gonna take a few months to fix the kinks
2021-06-20 15:46:32	kodah	linux really needs a dedicated hardware distributor that's as good as Apple
2021-06-20 15:46:35	Shenka	the plan is to just buy new computers and ditch apple. cause i only switched to apple because i was busy during the presidential primaries and couldnt be bothered to fuck around
2021-06-20 15:46:41	kodah	i think that's the missing jam
2021-06-20 15:46:57	<--	humky (~humky@user/humky) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 15:46:58	akik	Shenka: say apple support
2021-06-20 15:47:13	Shenka	apple support
2021-06-20 15:47:28	-->	kraiskil (~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:47:32	akik	good now you know where the problem is
2021-06-20 15:47:34	Shenka	this is the laptop im eyeing for my Macbook replacement https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/new-xps-13-developer-edition/spd/xps-13-9310-laptop/ctox139w10p2c3000u?configurationid=b4f7f94c-e5b3-464d-a887-990cf9d396f5
2021-06-20 15:47:38	Bocaneri	Shenka, mind the language.
2021-06-20 15:47:51	blackgatonegro	Shenka buy a Pi4 keyboard thing is only 100 bucks and can run both a version of ubuntu and a version of puppy linux
2021-06-20 15:48:00	-->	lucerne (~lucerne@ip202.ip-51-178-215.eu) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:48:00	kodah	dells are okay
2021-06-20 15:48:10	blackgatonegro	Is not powerful but have fun
2021-06-20 15:48:16	Shenka	yea but i want to use it as my actual device so i need more power than those can provide.
2021-06-20 15:48:31	Shenka	i was honestly considering the Atari VCS for a bit but they lock out a lot of distros due to secure boot, so its a no go
2021-06-20 15:48:32	kodah	i don't really like dell's webcam
2021-06-20 15:48:46	c705	kodah: s/webcam//
2021-06-20 15:48:48	Shenka	apple’s webcams are at least 8 years out of date so wont matter to me lol
2021-06-20 15:48:54	blackgatonegro	Well... there is a list of power pcs with linux support somewhere
2021-06-20 15:48:55	kodah	c705: hahaha
2021-06-20 15:49:31	kodah	Shenka: it's not about quality, it's the position that sucks
2021-06-20 15:49:32	<--	grnman_ (~gandalf@c-73-49-209-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:49:48	Shenka	Oh. where is it located?
2021-06-20 15:50:03	kodah	the bottom of the screen
2021-06-20 15:50:06	Shenka	if im doing a zoom call ill use my logitech brio tbh so ive not paid much attention to webcames
2021-06-20 15:50:06	-->	uc50ic4more (~uc50ic4mo@216.8.148.58) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:50:20	Shenka	oh no thats awful. the iPads webcam is already unusable because its on the side
2021-06-20 15:50:24	kodah	it is impossible to run an onlyfans with a bottom mounted camera
2021-06-20 15:50:27	Shenka	bottom-up angles are never flattering
2021-06-20 15:50:28	blackgatonegro	If it is desktop... well there are guides
2021-06-20 15:50:51	blackgatonegro	Here is one: https://www.techradar.com/best/linux-laptops
2021-06-20 15:50:53	-->	twomoon (~twomoon@ip72-199-58-150.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:50:53	Shenka	if GPUs werent so astronomically expensive id start with building a desktop again
2021-06-20 15:51:11	blackgatonegro	There is like twenty links, haven't time to read em all.
2021-06-20 15:51:43	-->	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:51:44	kodah	Shenka: there's always the Hades Canyon NUC
2021-06-20 15:51:49	kodah	no GPU needed
2021-06-20 15:52:02	blackgatonegro	Actually is about 20% cheaper to buy a desktop that a laptop. Problem is getting the right video card.
2021-06-20 15:52:13	<--	maetopid (~maetopid@pool-100-36-209-65.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:52:16	Shenka	i know but civilization :(
2021-06-20 15:52:25	kodah	the NUC is basically a laptop platform put in a brick
2021-06-20 15:52:35	blackgatonegro	Civilization on wine?
2021-06-20 15:52:36	Shenka	im not after like a 3060 or anything. hell id be happy with a 1050ti tbh
2021-06-20 15:52:38	decompyler	getting any video card is like pulling teeth these days
2021-06-20 15:52:44	Shenka	civ 6 has linux support i thought
2021-06-20 15:53:02	kodah	it does
2021-06-20 15:53:09	blackgatonegro	Yeah unless you go for the really expensive ones those the bitcoin miners don't touch.
2021-06-20 15:53:10	kodah	via Proton i believe
2021-06-20 15:53:22	Shenka	god bless proton. that came after i got rid of my gaming computer
2021-06-20 15:53:33	Shenka	i did PCI passthrough and shit. had two GPUs in my computer for the longest time
2021-06-20 15:54:06	blackgatonegro	My desktop is ten years old is basically my download stuff machine nowadays and not much else.
2021-06-20 15:54:20	<--	kraiskil (~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:54:28	Shenka	i use the M1 Mac Mini - which i wish had linux support because god damn is the M1 insanely impressive
2021-06-20 15:54:55	Shenka	running black ops via wine, which runs via rosetta, and i got 60FPS. absolutely blew my mind on an integrated GPU
2021-06-20 15:54:56	Psi-Jack	Civ 6 does indeed have native linux support (in steam)
2021-06-20 15:55:36	moo	Shenka: have you tested path of exile maybe? ;3
2021-06-20 15:55:47	Shenka	honestly not familiar with that at all
2021-06-20 15:55:55	moo	i really wish we could install linux on m1 mini, its amazing to get rid of x86
2021-06-20 15:55:55	<--	uc50ic4more (~uc50ic4mo@216.8.148.58) has quit (Quit: uc50ic4more)
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2021-06-20 15:56:20	-->	HumbleGuy3000 (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:56:22	moo	oh okay. cool game i guess
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2021-06-20 15:57:07	Shenka	moo: this is one thing i absolutely praise apple for. ARM is objectively the future, but because of windows fragmentation theyve failed to switch to ARM. hell they cant even drop 32 bit still
2021-06-20 15:57:28	moo	m1 isn't perfect but its so far ahead of any other arm chip
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2021-06-20 15:57:41	moo	i hope one day to run linux on m2? chip with 32g ram and 16 cores :)
2021-06-20 15:57:48	Shenka	agreed. im a huge simp for ARM though.
2021-06-20 15:58:07	ncb	i'm waiting for m4
2021-06-20 15:58:08	Shenka	problem with linux on M series chips is less the architecture and more apple’s bs security chip.
2021-06-20 15:58:16	moo	yeah
2021-06-20 15:58:24	moo	but i'm hoping it becomes more open or is cracked open
2021-06-20 15:58:43	<--	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@37.19.223.77) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 15:58:51	Shenka	as soon as we started cracking into it the T2 came out, and thats been a nuisance to break through ever since.
2021-06-20 15:59:08	moo	i'd be fine even installing on external drive
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2021-06-20 15:59:14	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, i installed audacity and the mic works, but is very bad quality, very bad distortion
2021-06-20 15:59:19	Shenka	like i understand the value the T2 chip brings, but give us the option to adjust security levels
2021-06-20 15:59:26	johnnyapol	As much as the m-series chips are tempting I’m looking into staying on x86_64 but going with the framework modular laptop
2021-06-20 15:59:26	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 15:59:27	HumbleGuy	i know my mic is better as it ran fine in windows
2021-06-20 15:59:44	Shenka	last year my T2 became completely screwed. my computer literally wouldnt even boot bios anymore because thats how far the chip locks you out
2021-06-20 15:59:54	Shenka	apple anted $1500 to repair on a computer that was less than a year old.
2021-06-20 16:00:06	Shenka	thankfully i managed to reflash the chip and everything worked perfectly from there, but damn was it annoying
2021-06-20 16:00:10	Shenka	*wanted
2021-06-20 16:00:11	moo	also t2 security is amazing if someone steals your laptop - he won't get your files or even get to use laptop on its own
2021-06-20 16:00:14	blackgatonegro	HumbleGuy uh, that usually means the wrong port, but is an onboard mic so... try a different mic option in audacity?
2021-06-20 16:00:17	Badegakk	Not sure if it's the right place to ask. I am looking for good iptv client for Linux. Been using VLC and it s not optimal
2021-06-20 16:00:19	moo	but its still blackbox that nsa can open
2021-06-20 16:00:24	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@217.64.127.220) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:00:25	moo	not like its a problem for 99% of us, but still
2021-06-20 16:00:28	Shenka	moo: definitely. its not an evil addition, but i want the choice lol
2021-06-20 16:01:02	moo	or: someone finally make m2 chips into PCs :D
2021-06-20 16:01:05	HumbleGuy	blackgatonegro, its not specific to audacity, i also tryied discord and my friends sayed the mic is horrible
2021-06-20 16:01:10	johnnyapol	You can still protect your files using full disk encryption (luks) without the t2. But yeah you don’t get the same “laptop is a brick as you need to sign into iCloud”
2021-06-20 16:01:12	HumbleGuy	tried*
2021-06-20 16:01:13	Shenka	lol arm support on windows?
2021-06-20 16:01:27	moo	you can run windows on raspberry pi even, for free :)
2021-06-20 16:01:42	moo	but eh i'll probably buy mini at some point and use VMs for servers
2021-06-20 16:01:50	blackgatonegro	HumbleGuy buy a cheap mic or borrow one and try with that? Make sure is linux compatible.
2021-06-20 16:02:08	Shenka	if i can get my hands on the pinephone or librem 5 id like to make a reddit client - but itll be awhile before i can invest in that. and im sure somebody is already hard at work
2021-06-20 16:02:20	blackgatonegro	I mean Linux can run a lot of cheap mics okay
2021-06-20 16:02:22	moo	my home server already runs in VMs, its just proxmox. can handle whatever there is on mac instead
2021-06-20 16:02:24	Shenka	ask NSA to let you use their mic. always handy
2021-06-20 16:02:39	-->	RoseKitsune (~RoseKitsu@user/rosekitsune) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:02:46	blackgatonegro	As long as they are not Windows only trash
2021-06-20 16:03:01	Shenka	my logitech brio is effectively useless on my M1 mac
2021-06-20 16:03:22	blackgatonegro	sorry gtg tea time with my aunt
2021-06-20 16:03:22	Shenka	their software to adjust its camera settings and everything just does not function on M1, even via rosetta. so its always blurry and out of focus
2021-06-20 16:03:25	<--	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has quit (Quit: I am leaving and I am taking the spaceship with me!)
2021-06-20 16:03:33	Shenka	so long, partner
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2021-06-20 16:04:40	<--	ZedHedTed (~ZedHedTed@user/zedhedted) has quit (Quit: logging out)
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2021-06-20 16:05:17	-->	ZedHedTed (~ZedHedTed@user/zedhedted) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:07:43	PaulFertser	Is there a channel where people discuss Linux?
2021-06-20 16:07:45	-->	masber (~masber@178.197.236.46) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:07:51	c705	PaulFertser: no
2021-06-20 16:08:40	PaulFertser	c705: why not? I remember there was something like that on freenode.
2021-06-20 16:08:42	<--	evilbug (~evilbug@188.25.70.90) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 16:08:43	akoana	HumbleGuy: reduce mic gain to about 70% and retry...
2021-06-20 16:09:12	<--	jinsun (~quassel@user/jinsun) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 16:09:39	-->	jinsun (~quassel@user/jinsun) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 16:09:42	c705	PaulFertser: you're shitting me right
2021-06-20 16:09:45	HumbleGuy	akoana, that wont fix the problem, the problem is the working microphone is not enabled or something
2021-06-20 16:10:00	PaulFertser	c705: no kidding, I do not remember what its name was. Probably kernel-newbies or something.
2021-06-20 16:10:08	-->	Judabuda (~ok@user/judabuda) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:10:31	c705	PaulFertser: do you even know what channel you're in right now?
2021-06-20 16:10:54	moo	Shenka: are you running any linux VMs maybe? also do you have 10g network?
2021-06-20 16:10:55	PaulFertser	c705: it's called #linux but apparently people discuss userspace here mostly.
2021-06-20 16:11:10	<--	Iamthehuman (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-20 16:11:13	DLange	PaulFertser: you can discuss Linux here, the resident trolls will suspend the chatter then. There is #kernelnewbies on Libera as well.
2021-06-20 16:11:15	<--	uc50ic4more (~uc50ic4mo@216.8.148.58) has quit (Quit: uc50ic4more)
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2021-06-20 16:11:29	akoana	HumbleGuy: did you start alsamixer and check that the mic isn't muted?
2021-06-20 16:11:35	<--	uc50ic4more (~uc50ic4mo@216.8.148.58) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-20 16:11:56	Shenka	moo: i dont have any VMs set up. might explore that on my M1 mac later though
2021-06-20 16:12:01	PaulFertser	DLange: is there a place where non-newbies gather though?
2021-06-20 16:12:33	Shenka	moo: and by 10g do you mean the network antenna strength or something else? apologies im not a networking guy
2021-06-20 16:12:34	DLange	PaulFertser: well, there's lots of channels, you'd need to be a bit more specific then
2021-06-20 16:12:36	<--	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 16:13:41	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 16:13:53	PaulFertser	DLange: I'm lurking on this #linux channel for few days but so far haven't spotted any Linux discussions. As if people do not need to edit DeviceTree files, discuss how to use lockdep / rcu / rtnl, write eBPF for instrumentation and compare that to SystemTap, stuff like that.
2021-06-20 16:14:11	<--	ZedHedTed (~ZedHedTed@user/zedhedted) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 16:14:37	c705	this is the weirdest troll ever
2021-06-20 16:14:58	esselfe	yeah it's not Linux the kernel, it's Linux the OS :)
2021-06-20 16:15:03	esselfe	try #kernel
2021-06-20 16:15:10	<--	Haxxa (~Haxxa@122.199.47.41) has quit (Quit: Haxxa flies away.)
2021-06-20 16:15:10	DLange	PaulFertser: people that do these tend to know what they are doing and need not ask random folks on the internet for how-tos. But we do have the occasional intern here. Or people that ask for help with their CS assignments.
2021-06-20 16:15:25	-->	WildeFox (~WildeFox@137-025-004-043.res.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 16:15:49	moo	Shenka: ethernet in mac mini
2021-06-20 16:15:54	-->	Bashing-om (~sysop@ubuntu/member/bashing-om) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:15:55	-->	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:16:01	moo	there is optional 10gb network upgrade when you order
2021-06-20 16:16:18	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:16:38	Shenka	ah yes. i do have ethernet but no access to ethernet ports sadly
2021-06-20 16:16:46	-->	Eldbogi (~Eldbogi@nova-046-182-189-250.nat.novanet.is) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 16:16:54	moo	okay so probably would be waste of money for you :P
2021-06-20 16:16:59	kodah	PaulFertser: both kernel and userspace are discussed here
2021-06-20 16:17:19	<--	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-20 16:17:25	moo	good thing i put cat7 cables in all my walls. bad thing, they are a bitch to work with
2021-06-20 16:17:27	-->	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 16:17:41	moo	but now i can just connect 10g network adapters and done, it works
2021-06-20 16:17:46	Shenka	the place im renting has great wifi but i dont have access to ethernet
2021-06-20 16:18:08	kodah	also, aren't all eBPF interfaces userspace?
2021-06-20 16:18:10	Shenka	unless i pay to install my own separate line which im not doing since i dont own the place
2021-06-20 16:18:32	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-20 16:18:59	PaulFertser	c705: I'm not trolling, I'm a long time GNU/Linux user and I have some contributions to Linux, you can look me up in the git log. I'd like to see some discussions of the people involved, just that.
2021-06-20 16:19:05	<--	ziper (~deamon@212.237.171.46) has quit (Quit: ziper)
2021-06-20 16:19:09	kodah	PaulFertser: there's also #kernel which is run by kernel.org
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2021-06-20 16:21:06	johnnyapol	kodah:eBPF programs run in the kernel but they can expose information to user-space processes
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2021-06-20 16:21:52	kodah	johnnyapol: precisely
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2021-06-20 16:23:33	PaulFertser	kodah: thank you!
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2021-06-20 16:25:02	sozuba	I want to clone my hard disk to an external secondary drive. Is it necessary that i wipe the entire secondary hard disk through dd /dev/zero and then use that disk, or can i just directly start cloning into the secondary drive through dd?
2021-06-20 16:25:49	sozuba	I usually, dd wipe the secondary drive with /dev/zero and then use it for cloning.
2021-06-20 16:25:55	kodah	sozuba: i haven't done that specifically, but wiping sounds like the way to avoid fun problems
2021-06-20 16:26:22	sozuba	kodah,fair enough :) thanks
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2021-06-20 16:30:57	Dagmar	Is it something you bought on clearnce through Alibaba?
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2021-06-20 16:31:19	Dagmar	If not, then you don't need to wipe it with zeros just to write over the thing with an image from your old disk
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2021-06-20 16:32:29	NGC3982	im having so many issues with directory access and i cant understand it
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2021-06-20 16:42:05	voldial	Why cant I delete this file? https://bpa.st/WDJQ it's parent dir is "drwxr-xr-x  21 root root   23 2021-06-16 15:22:05 ."
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2021-06-20 16:42:59	tfe	hello. check the  immutable attribute maybe?
2021-06-20 16:43:14	tfe	chattr -i the_file
2021-06-20 16:43:21	geirha	nfs might be set to not allow root write acecss from that host
2021-06-20 16:43:40	voldial	tfe: it's not +i
2021-06-20 16:43:42	sheep	or the nfs server might not allow remibing that file
2021-06-20 16:43:47	voldial	geirha: yea, that's what I suspect...
2021-06-20 16:43:48	sheep	*removing
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2021-06-20 16:44:11	EriC^	voldial: what attributes is on it anyways? try lsattr file.sha1
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2021-06-20 16:44:31	geirha	they already did in the paste
2021-06-20 16:44:39	EriC^	ah right
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2021-06-20 16:45:39	voldial	well, NFS does not support extended attrs, but from the server side, "--------------e------"
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2021-06-20 17:54:09	HumbleGuy	my computer is very slow (2 threads), xfce is too powerful
2021-06-20 17:54:17	HumbleGuy	any suggestions for something lighter?
2021-06-20 17:54:23	HumbleGuy	i heard linux can do wonders
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2021-06-20 17:54:29	decompyler	terminal
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2021-06-20 17:55:12	decompyler	tty :)
2021-06-20 17:55:26	Kyv	icewm
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2021-06-20 17:56:06	decompyler	yeah i3 or xmonad might be your options too
2021-06-20 17:56:52	ayecee	the wm has little impact on performance. consider using different apps.
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2021-06-20 17:58:47	 *	[[R]] gives ayecee some performance enhancing pills
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2021-06-20 17:59:45	 *	c705 enhances [[R]]'s performance
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2021-06-20 18:00:12	 *	esselfe puts c705 on turbo
2021-06-20 18:00:15	Kyv	you can shave half a gig or more of RAM usage and fine-tune a standalone compositor better
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2021-06-20 18:00:32	Kyv	Xfce isnt intensive to begin with but others are still lighter
2021-06-20 18:00:35	 *	decompyler performs as normal
2021-06-20 18:00:57	[[R]]	c705: i think 2 viagaras aren't better htan 1
2021-06-20 18:01:10	omegatron	depends on what you try to achieve ..
2021-06-20 18:01:12	c705	[[R]]: tell that to my wife
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2021-06-20 18:02:49	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-20 18:03:29	decompyler	blow up dolls don't count as a wife :D
2021-06-20 18:03:43	omegatron	*badumm tsss*
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2021-06-20 18:03:49	Kyv	xmonad is written in haskell, though. if you want to learn haskell, or feel like cobbling together things from documentation, its nice.
2021-06-20 18:03:52	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 18:04:09	Kyv	it is basically dwm written in haskell, with haskell dependencies.
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2021-06-20 18:05:43	Kyv	it doesnt come with a any kind of utility bar or anything either
2021-06-20 18:06:10	Kyv	which everyone seems to want
2021-06-20 18:07:37	decompyler	isn't openbox lighter than xfce?
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2021-06-20 18:09:01	Kyv	I have never used openbox
2021-06-20 18:09:04	esselfe	I love fluxbox
2021-06-20 18:09:13	Kyv	probably the heavier one of the 'boxes
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2021-06-20 18:11:32	omegatron	hmmm, is https://www.unicode.org down?
2021-06-20 18:11:43	ayecee	which is heavier - a human hair or a rabbit hair
2021-06-20 18:11:49	decompyler	down fro me
2021-06-20 18:12:00	ayecee	is what this convo comes out like
2021-06-20 18:12:02	c705	ayecee: you haven't said anything about the mass
2021-06-20 18:12:17	c705	https://www.unicode.org seems down
2021-06-20 18:12:33	rud0lf	c705: timeouting here too
2021-06-20 18:12:33	omegatron	damn it
2021-06-20 18:12:44	decompyler	is the hair growing from a mouse or a flea...?
2021-06-20 18:13:10	ayecee	missed opportunity for african or european human
2021-06-20 18:13:17	Kyv	yeah, a guy had a slow computer and wanted to squeeze as much performance from it as he could
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2021-06-20 18:14:06	ayecee	by changing the de from one lightweight one to another
2021-06-20 18:14:11	rud0lf	can african swallow carry a coconut?
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2021-06-20 18:14:40	Kyv	still smaller
2021-06-20 18:14:49	ayecee	just changing the hand angle while squeezing the sponge
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2021-06-20 18:15:25	ayecee	well into diminishing returns territory
2021-06-20 18:15:26	Kyv	it is not good practice when you dont have the resources to just ignore inefficiencies that can be changed
2021-06-20 18:15:33	Kyv	even if they are small
2021-06-20 18:15:57	ayecee	it is not good practice to invest a lot of time for imperceptible gains.
2021-06-20 18:15:58	Kyv	if he say, changed his software outfit along with that, then its that much more to work with
2021-06-20 18:16:28	<--	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 18:17:03	Kyv	which is something you suggested, and something another person might come along and call ridiculous just the same
2021-06-20 18:17:04	ayecee	you can _maybe_ get measurable differences out of the change, but not perceptible ones
2021-06-20 18:17:19	-->	bilegeek (~bilegeek@2600:1008:b017:63a6:c26d:d119:faaa:a6d7) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 18:18:24	ayecee	though i guess the placebo effect is strong, and if you believe it's faster, and you're happier for that, it doesn't really matter if it's not changed.
2021-06-20 18:18:56	Kyv	you're missing the premise
2021-06-20 18:19:02	ayecee	nope
2021-06-20 18:19:15	Kyv	if someone's computer struggles to run xfce.. because its too powerful
2021-06-20 18:19:48	decompyler	yea we are talking about a 20 year old machine running 2 threads.
2021-06-20 18:19:50	ayecee	awkward wording aside, what have i missed
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2021-06-20 18:20:36	ayecee	xfce is not demanding. if the computer is sucking wind, it's not xfce that's bogging it down.
2021-06-20 18:20:39	<--	wolfshappen_ (~waff@irc.furworks.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-20 18:20:44	ayecee	it's the other things that are running.
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2021-06-20 18:21:37	ayecee	changing out xfce for performance, is like changing out your wallwarts to save on your power bill
2021-06-20 18:22:02	ayecee	it is not productive.
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2021-06-20 18:22:16	decompyler	agreed but for some, there is no other option
2021-06-20 18:22:29	ayecee	...
2021-06-20 18:22:45	ayecee	either you don't agree, or you don't understand.
2021-06-20 18:23:36	ayecee	i'm not saying, get a faster computer. i'm saying, changing xfce to something else won't make this one faster.
2021-06-20 18:23:56	decompyler	agreed.
2021-06-20 18:23:57	Kyv	I have done the very same things for old machines and now for most purposes they run as a modern machine would.
2021-06-20 18:24:28	c705	i'm sure they do
2021-06-20 18:24:47	Kyv	they do
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2021-06-20 18:24:56	kodah	Kyv: what changes to xfce are you making?
2021-06-20 18:25:02	c705	what a brilliant idea. i'd better go out and buy all the core2 duos i can get my hands on before the secret is out
2021-06-20 18:25:02	Kyv	as most people do not require the kind of specs they actually have
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2021-06-20 18:26:33	Kyv	kodah: I'm not making any
2021-06-20 18:26:36	ayecee	ooooh, also the ikea effect
2021-06-20 18:26:39	ayecee	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
2021-06-20 18:26:50	ayecee	The IKEA effect is a cognitive bias in which consumers place a disproportionately high value on products they partially created.
2021-06-20 18:26:59	kodah	wow, some of these are actually kinda crazy:
2021-06-20 18:27:01	kodah	https://wiki.xfce.org/tips
2021-06-20 18:27:18	Kyv	ayecee: this has nothing to do with anything
2021-06-20 18:27:26	kodah	i figured the part about fonts, but background color changes are interesting
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2021-06-20 18:27:46	ayecee	Kyv: use caps, maybe you can convince someone of that
2021-06-20 18:28:07	decompyler	much love nerds :D
2021-06-20 18:28:16	kodah	i'm guessing that's more of a VNC issue than xfce though
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2021-06-20 18:29:11	c705	vnc? naaahhhhhhh
2021-06-20 18:29:28	Kyv	ayecee: I dont have to use caps
2021-06-20 18:29:38	kodah	Kyv: just /ignore
2021-06-20 18:29:46	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 18:29:49	Kyv	tell me about the mandela effect next, or stockholm syndrome.. who cares?
2021-06-20 18:30:29	rud0lf	stockholm ikea syndrome, when you fall in love with wardrobe you're trapped in
2021-06-20 18:30:36	ayecee	well i mean those aren't relevant to your performance claims
2021-06-20 18:30:42	decompyler	"I understand shit's emotional" - President Kamacho
2021-06-20 18:30:44	ayecee	probably. are you a captive?
2021-06-20 18:30:56	Kyv	neither is the "IKEA effect"
2021-06-20 18:31:02	ayecee	that wone is
2021-06-20 18:31:20	ayecee	you're human. humans have biases.
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2021-06-20 18:31:41	HumbleGuy	my headphones doesnt get detected
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2021-06-20 18:32:15	HumbleGuy	in pulseaudio
2021-06-20 18:32:30	c705	HumbleGuy: are you sure you plugged it in all they way?
2021-06-20 18:32:30	HumbleGuy	enabled it in the kernel but still no detection
2021-06-20 18:32:38	HumbleGuy	c705, yeah :))
2021-06-20 18:33:00	ayecee	HumbleGuy: has it worked on this computer before?
2021-06-20 18:33:04	HumbleGuy	c705, LED from headphones lighted up
2021-06-20 18:33:04	Gustavo6046	dayum flatpak is THICC
2021-06-20 18:33:13	HumbleGuy	i don't know
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2021-06-20 18:33:24	kodah	Gustavo6046: gotta put all that goodness somewhere
2021-06-20 18:33:31	decompyler	relog humbleguy
2021-06-20 18:33:33	Kyv	ayecee: yeah, so humans are the ikea effect then?
2021-06-20 18:33:41	Gustavo6046	Perhaps package repository management should be decentralized
2021-06-20 18:33:50	ayecee	Kyv: okay now you're just being dumb on purpose.
2021-06-20 18:34:15	SickBoy	o/
2021-06-20 18:34:20	hodapp	ayecee: oh yeah well you're just being SMART on purpose
2021-06-20 18:34:23	 *	hodapp looks smug
2021-06-20 18:34:28	ayecee	oh snap
2021-06-20 18:34:34	c705	snapd*
2021-06-20 18:34:52	HumbleGuy	decompyler, what do you mean
2021-06-20 18:34:53	hodapp	Situation Normal All Phucked... Down?
2021-06-20 18:34:59	Badegakk	.
2021-06-20 18:35:04	Kyv	yeah, smart.. right.
2021-06-20 18:35:08	Kyv	I'm still waiting for that one.
2021-06-20 18:35:14	kodah	there is a beautiful feature of IRC called /ignore; this network supports an extended version that will ignore entire connected accounts
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2021-06-20 18:35:48	c705	kodah: shhh, i haven't seen a fight this good since some time last week
2021-06-20 18:36:05	kodah	true true
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2021-06-20 18:39:46	ayecee	i think the only time I've seen wm/de have a visible effect on performance was in going from one that required a compositor (unity) to one that didn't (unity-2d)
2021-06-20 18:40:01	decompyler	There is a fight? I just see heavy breathing and disagreements on particulars.
2021-06-20 18:40:16	-->	bddba (~bddba@2600:8800:1d8b:ef00:d56e:939d:5c5c:f14a) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 18:40:19	ayecee	but xfce is very much in the second set
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2021-06-20 18:40:46	kodah	generally it's just passive aggression and one up intellectual insults back and forth until someone gets fed up
2021-06-20 18:41:07	Kyv	kodah: that isnt what it is at all, either.
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2021-06-20 18:41:23	Kyv	go sit in front of your aquarium
2021-06-20 18:41:35	<--	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 18:41:45	ayecee	the "am not" in the "am not - are too" cycle
2021-06-20 18:41:48	<--	Celeo (~Celeo@user/celeo) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 18:41:52	kodah	i have a dog; i'm too poor for an aquarium
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2021-06-20 18:42:27	rascul	dogs are the best
2021-06-20 18:42:28	Kyv	ayecee: but you cited a wikipedia article, which has everything to do with market research, money changing hands, the value _consumers_ place on goods they feel theyve had a hand in making..
2021-06-20 18:42:33	kodah	they really are
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2021-06-20 18:42:54	decompyler	dogs are this simulations best creation.
2021-06-20 18:43:02	-->	Antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 18:43:10	ayecee	Kyv: i mean, it's not intended to be a medical diagnosis, if that's what you're thinking.
2021-06-20 18:43:11	Kyv	none of which has anything to do with changing out software to suit fit the needs of a gimped machine
2021-06-20 18:43:11	rud0lf	except for chihuahua
2021-06-20 18:43:16	kodah	especially 7 year old pitties that like to play tug of war
2021-06-20 18:43:44	rud0lf	interesting that how noisy the dog is is inversely proportional to its size
2021-06-20 18:43:54	rud0lf	or Noise * Size = const
2021-06-20 18:44:25	ayecee	Kyv: you honestly don't see how it applies, and while i'm perplexed by that, i accept that you're not pretending about that.
2021-06-20 18:44:26	decompyler	They have to "act big" in order to ward of potential threats.
2021-06-20 18:44:42	 *	ayecee fluffs up the feathers
2021-06-20 18:44:51	 *	kodah watches similar humans
2021-06-20 18:45:17	c705	is "go sit in front of your aquarium" an insult?
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2021-06-20 18:45:23	c705	i'm not getting it
2021-06-20 18:45:34	kodah	if i had one i totally would
2021-06-20 18:45:38	ayecee	dismissal, at least
2021-06-20 18:45:40	decompyler	"get out of here"
2021-06-20 18:45:56	Kyv	c705: no
2021-06-20 18:46:16	ayecee	it's a way of saying, you have nothing useful to add to this conversation
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2021-06-20 18:46:28	ayecee	so in that way it's insulting, sure
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2021-06-20 18:46:50	decompyler	however, these days... everything can be construed as an insult
2021-06-20 18:46:58	Kyv	its a way of saying, the fishes would probably be more receptive to armchair analysis
2021-06-20 18:47:00	kodah	true
2021-06-20 18:47:13	Kyv	and probably more relaxing for him
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2021-06-20 18:47:33	ayecee	i feel like you spend a lot of time reinterpreting your words
2021-06-20 18:47:42	ayecee	in ways that other people don't find obvious
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2021-06-20 18:48:07	c705	as soon as one party of an argument starts resorting to insults instead of the actual argument, it's time to call it quits
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2021-06-20 18:48:36	ayecee	geez who made up that rule
2021-06-20 18:48:43	decompyler	strawmaning 101
2021-06-20 18:48:43	iflema	:D
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2021-06-20 18:49:15	kodah	i wonder if there's an app to make a virtual aquarium
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2021-06-20 18:49:27	decompyler	there is.
2021-06-20 18:49:40	rud0lf	there was a windows screensaver that did it
2021-06-20 18:49:46	kodah	there's this: https://aqua.org/explore/livestreams
2021-06-20 18:50:08	kodah	just look at these jellyfish
2021-06-20 18:50:12	ayecee	SimAquarium(tm)
2021-06-20 18:50:30	Kyv	he took my advice and he's all the better for it
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2021-06-20 18:50:43	c705	kodah: the self signed cert is so aporpos
2021-06-20 18:51:02	hodapp	c705: go sit in your aquarium
2021-06-20 18:51:03	c705	Kyv: you seem like you're just here for attention honestly
2021-06-20 18:51:30	kodah	hodapp: that's a step up, IN the aquarium now
2021-06-20 18:51:36	kodah	i want an invite for that one
2021-06-20 18:51:46	ayecee	eh that's why we're all here amirite
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2021-06-20 18:51:48	 *	kodah swims with the fishes
2021-06-20 18:51:49	hodapp	kodah: well unless it's like one of the neat ones at the zoo where you can step *down* into the aquarium part
2021-06-20 18:51:52	Kyv	c705: what does that even mean?
2021-06-20 18:52:01	Kyv	why do I care?
2021-06-20 18:52:01	hodapp	and then people can see from the glass below ground
2021-06-20 18:52:08	kodah	hodapp: your zoos are nicer than mine
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2021-06-20 18:52:27	decompyler	group hugs?
2021-06-20 18:52:36	-->	charon (~charon@user/charon) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 18:52:42	kodah	although i did get to see a cheetah run about two feet away from me
2021-06-20 18:52:44	hodapp	kodah: oh, the local zoo doesn't have one of those, this is one ~100 miles away I'm thinking of
2021-06-20 18:52:46	kodah	that was terrifying
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2021-06-20 18:53:28	hodapp	only thing the nearest zoo to me is known for is killing a certain now-famous gorilla :[
2021-06-20 18:53:43	kodah	aw :(
2021-06-20 18:53:51	decompyler	harambe!
2021-06-20 18:54:38	hodapp	the very same. friend worked at this zoo and described the mood as one like a coworker had been shot, not a gorilla
2021-06-20 18:54:45	decompyler	Zoo's are animal prisons.
2021-06-20 18:54:58	kodah	https://youtu.be/E60N6pqrsCY
2021-06-20 18:55:22	ayecee	hard to relate, my workplace hasn't had a gorilla shot
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2021-06-20 18:56:39	ayecee	or a coworker, i guess
2021-06-20 18:57:02	hodapp	you... guess?
2021-06-20 18:57:20	decompyler	dumb ass parent who let their kid fall into a gorilla cages should have been shot.
2021-06-20 18:57:25	ayecee	i'm like 86% sure
2021-06-20 18:57:51	hodapp	"Hey, what does that 'It has been ___ days since a coworker was shot.' sign say in the blank?"  "idk, it's not important"
2021-06-20 18:58:19	ayecee	"it's a thing we were doing, but now it seems a little tasteless"
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2021-06-20 19:01:26	Kyv	the kid shouldnt have been born let alone fallen into a cage the gorilla shouldnt have been in, I blame the parents.
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2021-06-20 19:02:32	decompyler	That's what I said @Kyv
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2021-06-20 19:04:57	decompyler	Poll: "Systemd" or "OpenRC"
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2021-06-20 19:05:33	ayecee	no polls please
2021-06-20 19:05:53	decompyler	Poll: "Poll" or "No poll"
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2021-06-20 19:11:11	kodah	decompyler: you need new bait
2021-06-20 19:11:26	Kyv	hes got fish on the brain
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2021-06-20 19:11:36	kodah	i feel like "Gentoo or Arch?" is sufficient
2021-06-20 19:11:51	decompyler	frendly interactive shell! don't mind if I do!
2021-06-20 19:12:00	Kyv	ahaha
2021-06-20 19:12:18	kodah	Kyv: correct, i saw a clownfish on my livestream and named it Kyv. no relation.
2021-06-20 19:12:45	Kyv	I love the dad jokes that come out of here
2021-06-20 19:12:52	Kyv	if there is any doubt, that is why I come
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2021-06-20 19:13:04	decompyler	That's what she said.
2021-06-20 19:13:09	kodah	i am a dad and it is fathers day and i do have jokes
2021-06-20 19:13:11	rud0lf	The past, the present, and the future came to a bar. It was tense.
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2021-06-20 19:14:05	kodah	rud0lf: ++
2021-06-20 19:14:09	rud0lf	:)
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2021-06-20 19:34:23	sumthing1980_	do you know a text editor that can open a 6 gb file?
2021-06-20 19:34:57	omegatron	vi?
2021-06-20 19:35:37	sumthing1980_	can it Ill see
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2021-06-20 19:35:57	omegatron	but.. you could always split the file in smaller pieces with  split  and after your edit concatenate them again with   cat
2021-06-20 19:36:19	topoi	ed?
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2021-06-20 19:36:27	hodapp	what sort of edits are you needing to do?
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2021-06-20 19:36:42	sumthing1980_	Just want to look at it
2021-06-20 19:36:45	omegatron	emacs or nano might also be able to pull that stunt
2021-06-20 19:36:54	topoi	Do you want to edit that file or look through resp. find something, sumthing1980_ ?
2021-06-20 19:36:56	kodah	sumthing1980_: intellij can but you need to allocate enough memory
2021-06-20 19:37:02	hodapp	emacs will try to put it all in memory
2021-06-20 19:37:11	hodapp	something like 'less' will let you look at it without that
2021-06-20 19:37:15	sumthing1980_	just look at it atm
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2021-06-20 19:37:40	kodah	does your terminal have enough buffer to let you "look at" it?
2021-06-20 19:37:40	topoi	hodapp: so which editor won't buffer it? I was just half joking on hinting at "ed".. :P
2021-06-20 19:37:43	omegatron	a 6gb text file or raw binary data ?
2021-06-20 19:37:56	sumthing1980_	it is text
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2021-06-20 19:38:11	hodapp	topoi: fairly sure ed won't
2021-06-20 19:38:11	omegatron	some large string suffix or dna or what?
2021-06-20 19:38:14	charon	sumthing1980_, try klogg, it's designed for big files. i've had it work on 80gb+ stuff
2021-06-20 19:39:00	sumthing1980_	charon: ok
2021-06-20 19:39:03	charon	sumthing1980_, https://klogg.filimonov.dev/
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2021-06-20 19:40:06	hodapp	but if you all you want to do is look, 'less' will do that - though it may be a pain if the lines aren't broken sanely
2021-06-20 19:40:17	hodapp	you can search and jump to specific lines and so forth
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2021-06-20 19:41:52	sumthing1980_	trying klogg
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2021-06-20 19:45:40	Dagmar	Apaprently this isn't the first IRC network he's purchased into obscurity
2021-06-20 19:45:42	Dagmar	@#$#@$
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2021-06-20 19:48:36	hodapp	Dagmar: ehh?
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2021-06-20 19:51:00	bernard__	?
2021-06-20 19:51:15	bernard__	wrong window
2021-06-20 19:51:36	mybalzitch	I wonder if snoonet will be next
2021-06-20 19:52:03	<--	UQUBE (~UQUBE@193.27.13.190) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 19:52:27	kodah	he doesn't own snoonet
2021-06-20 19:52:53	kodah	PIA sold that off i'm pretty sure
2021-06-20 19:53:55	mybalzitch	8someone on the internet claims he dicked with snoonet
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2021-06-20 19:55:21	kodah	nvm, PIA is still listed as a "sponsor"
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2021-06-20 20:03:56	kodah	from what i gathered he bought up a bunch of networks an intends to combine them via federation
2021-06-20 20:04:15	<--	antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-20 20:04:57	kodah	which is why he's affiliated with ircd maintainers
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2021-06-20 20:06:52	k3v1n	so is everyone ready for windows 11 ?
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2021-06-20 20:07:39	quarkyalice	I won't be using Windows 11
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2021-06-20 20:08:45	omegatron	is humanity ready for the next stage in de-evolution of software .. you mean?
2021-06-20 20:08:46	akik	k3v1n: #linux i think
2021-06-20 20:08:48	kodah	i'm still holding my breath for Halflife 3
2021-06-20 20:09:13	<--	ultralisk (~ultralisk@2a00:23c6:4b0e:e900:d16b:937b:cfbf:d330) has quit
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2021-06-20 20:09:15	akoana	we've got already X Window System, Version 11. much better
2021-06-20 20:09:24	k3v1n	linux is old
2021-06-20 20:09:28	k3v1n	yawwwn
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2021-06-20 20:09:45	k3v1n	windows 11 much better for games
2021-06-20 20:09:48	akik	i mean use it if you want but the discussion is about linux
2021-06-20 20:09:56	[[R]]	k3v1n: your trolling is pretty lame
2021-06-20 20:10:10	<--	Toadisattva (~Toadisatt@gateway/tor-sasl/toadisattva) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 20:10:28	kodah	this is fairly low effort
2021-06-20 20:10:33	k3v1n	[[R]] im not trolling :S
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2021-06-20 20:11:04	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-06-20 20:11:20	omegatron	work - like every day
2021-06-20 20:11:28	akik	no not this guy again :D
2021-06-20 20:11:36	byte4byte	thug life
2021-06-20 20:11:36	omegatron	=D
2021-06-20 20:11:38	<--	tkimball (~tkimball@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-20 20:11:47	akik	byte4byte: i thought you already dug your head out of your behind?
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2021-06-20 20:14:03	k3v1n	so is 2021 the year of the desktop for linux ?
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2021-06-20 20:14:40	kodah	k3v1n: don't you have an overpriced virtual machine to tinker with?
2021-06-20 20:15:43	k3v1n	nope i just run all that stuff in wsl
2021-06-20 20:16:01	k3v1n	i just works yawwwn
2021-06-20 20:16:32	nifl	k3v1n wsl is that similar thing to wygcin?
2021-06-20 20:16:39	nifl	*cygwin
2021-06-20 20:17:06	kodah	k3v1n: that explains why you're connecting from vultr
2021-06-20 20:17:09	<--	luke-jr (~luke-jr@user/luke-jr) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-06-20 20:17:10	k3v1n	yeh it run much better tho
2021-06-20 20:17:12	kodah	which... runs on linux
2021-06-20 20:17:16	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 20:17:31	nifl	running native linux command ?
2021-06-20 20:17:50	k3v1n	vultr is based
2021-06-20 20:17:51	decompyler	#
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2021-06-20 20:17:57	Umeaboy	Hi!
2021-06-20 20:18:23	sumthing1980_	when hosting services give 1 core vps as product, they are using the hyperthreading of the cpus as cores right?
2021-06-20 20:18:47	bindi	no
2021-06-20 20:18:52	[[R]]	sumthing1980_: how many cores are listed in /proc/cpuinfo?
2021-06-20 20:19:00	sumthing1980_	vps 1 core
2021-06-20 20:19:06	sumthing1980_	w8
2021-06-20 20:19:19	Umeaboy	This is a general question, but how can I make sure that my changes in a defconfig for a certain kernel gets compiled into the kernel once it's built? I know I have made the changes and yet when I want to verify I see warnings about these.
2021-06-20 20:19:58	johnnyapol	i think its too general of a question about hyperthreads vs no hyperthreading, it depends on the host i believe
2021-06-20 20:20:14	johnnyapol	sumthing1980_
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2021-06-20 20:20:16	sumthing1980_	1 cpu ntel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v4 @ 2.40GHz
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2021-06-20 20:20:28	kodah	cloud providers usually normalize cores off of some measurement, so it's never a clean cut
2021-06-20 20:20:34	[[R]]	sumthing1980_: they are overselling the service, so does it really matter?
2021-06-20 20:21:08	akik	Umeaboy: make sure it's in .config before building the kernel
2021-06-20 20:21:27	sumthing1980_	it lists exactly 1 cpu which was the product description
2021-06-20 20:21:44	k3v1n	1 cpu means nothing tho
2021-06-20 20:21:57	k3v1n	what cpu ? lol
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2021-06-20 20:22:38	sumthing1980_	I mean for HT pcs it lists 4 core + 4 HT in /proc cpuinfo
2021-06-20 20:22:44	sumthing1980_	this only has 1 core
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2021-06-20 20:22:53	sumthing1980_	so they use hyperthreads as cpus I think
2021-06-20 20:22:55	bindi	you get 1 VCPU
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2021-06-20 20:23:10	bindi	no, it doesnt matter what the host CPU is, hyperthreader or not (but they all are these days)
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2021-06-20 20:23:19	Dagmar	Umeaboy: Just look at the final generated .config for the kernel that it's getting built with
2021-06-20 20:23:24	bindi	1 CPU can be assigned to 10 virtual machines, limited at 10% each
2021-06-20 20:23:26	[[R]]	sumthing1980_: except you have no clue how the host is configured
2021-06-20 20:23:28	bindi	for example
2021-06-20 20:23:35	bindi	10% * 10 = 100%
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2021-06-20 20:23:44	sumthing1980_	yea but it is supposed to be entirely mine
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2021-06-20 20:23:52	bindi	kinda oversimplifying it, but there are way more vCPUs than there are physical cores or threads
2021-06-20 20:23:52	[[R]]	"it"?
2021-06-20 20:24:10	bindi	well, maybe it is. but its just 1 vCPU as they list it
2021-06-20 20:24:11	sumthing1980_	so I think the HTs are someones cpu
2021-06-20 20:24:16	esselfe	sumthing1980_: most providers give shared cpus, you'd want the dedicated package
2021-06-20 20:24:21	Dagmar	They usually *won't* do somethign that morally bankrupt but they will usually oversubscribe the VMhost somewhat, because it's normally unlikely all 15 customers are going to try to max out the 8 real cores at the same time
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2021-06-20 20:24:34	sumthing1980_	does it rly matter tho
2021-06-20 20:24:38	k3v1n	i always max my cpus when im not using them :P
2021-06-20 20:24:44	Dagmar	...and it's fairly reasonable for them to do so, because the vast majority of the time that's precisely what will happen
2021-06-20 20:24:45	sumthing1980_	if you cant tell between ht and real cpu
2021-06-20 20:25:01	Umeaboy	Dagmar: Where is the .config supposed to be generated?
2021-06-20 20:25:08	Umeaboy	In out/ ?
2021-06-20 20:25:17	Dagmar	Umeaboy: Right there in /usr/src/linux or whatever place you've got the kernel source
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2021-06-20 20:25:44	Dagmar	Umeaboy: Or just go in there with make menuconfig and save the configuration to a specific file somewhere that you can look at
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2021-06-20 20:25:49	sumthing1980_	Im just asking because I wanna know how they think, if they have 10 cores + 10 ht, do they think I they can sell 20 vcpu products
2021-06-20 20:26:01	Umeaboy	Dagmar: Can I PM you?
2021-06-20 20:26:01	[[R]]	they're selling way omre tan 20
2021-06-20 20:26:01	Dagmar	If you don't know when the defconfig is being called for then it's probably not being involved at all
2021-06-20 20:26:02	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-20 20:26:02	johnnyapol	the real difference in cloud computing mostly comes down to the spectre mitigations nowadays. technically for maximum security, hyperthreading shouldn't be used in environments that execute untrusted code.
2021-06-20 20:26:04	Dagmar	No
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2021-06-20 20:26:10	Umeaboy	OK.
2021-06-20 20:27:02	sumthing1980_	johnnyapol: whats so bat about hyper threads
2021-06-20 20:27:07	sumthing1980_	d
2021-06-20 20:27:17	Dagmar	johnnyapol: Luckily for Ms. Omyra's Sewing Blog the effort required to exploit that is wayyyyy above what the resources are worth.  :)
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2021-06-20 20:28:07	Dagmar	They're not quite as low likelyhood as usefully exploiting Heartbleed was, but they're close
2021-06-20 20:28:27	johnnyapol	sumthing1980_: i dont have anything against them and will happily let them run on any of my machines or VPS. just the speculative execution vulnerabilities are becoming a concern for some more sensitive workloads
2021-06-20 20:28:32	Dagmar	The people who can do it have way better things to do than worry about a wordpress site or someone's minecraft vhost
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2021-06-20 20:28:56	johnnyapol	agreed
2021-06-20 20:29:11	sumthing1980_	ok but besides security, using them to process things, there is no difference right?
2021-06-20 20:29:17	-->	UQUBE (~UQUBE@86.106.121.44) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 20:29:25	Dagmar	Yeah generally there's no real difference
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2021-06-20 20:29:50	k3v1n	sometimes people just need a box online for a couple shit websites vps does the job fine :P
2021-06-20 20:30:10	johnnyapol	i know with AMD's "hyperthreading" (they call it something different, they'd share floating point processors between the hyperthreading so it would be say 4 threads but 2 fpu units
2021-06-20 20:30:17	johnnyapol	not sure if intel is doing anything like that
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2021-06-20 20:30:39	raccoon_dog	SMT is what AMD call it, but it's slightly different.
2021-06-20 20:30:51	Dagmar	Building a kernel with make -j9 at a certain clock speed generally comes out the same wall clock time whether there's 8 "real" cores or 4 cores with hyperthreading behaving like 8 cores
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2021-06-20 20:31:38	johnnyapol	i remember building the kernel on a $250 6core amd laptop from walmart and those extra cores were actually fantastic
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2021-06-20 20:31:50	johnnyapol	could get builds in like < 10 minutes which was good enough for me
2021-06-20 20:31:56	Dagmar	Yeah a kernel build on this Ryzen 7 is nuts
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2021-06-20 20:32:17	Dagmar	If I rice it by prepopulating filesystem cache it's absurdly fast
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2021-06-20 20:32:28	Dagmar	Chrome, glibc, and X still take a bloody age tho
2021-06-20 20:32:28	niksen	what about ryzen 9?
2021-06-20 20:32:38	Dagmar	I don't havbe one yet because I am just not that fancy
2021-06-20 20:32:39	Dagmar	Heh
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2021-06-20 20:34:12	Dagmar	Considering this was an upgrade from an upper-end A10 CPU, the R7 switch was still astonishing
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2021-06-20 20:35:04	Umeaboy	Dagmar: I just opened the .config in /out/target/product/beyond2lte/obj/KERNEL_OBJ/ and it's different from the changed defconfig.
2021-06-20 20:35:14	Dagmar	Well, yes.
2021-06-20 20:35:29	Umeaboy	So, how do I solve it?
2021-06-20 20:35:35	Dagmar	Check to see if the configuration tokens you wanted set actually made it in there
2021-06-20 20:35:39	Dagmar	I woudln't worry about the entire file
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2021-06-20 20:36:28	Umeaboy	And what do I do if some of them didn't make it in there?
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2021-06-20 20:36:38	Dagmar	Keep digging until you find which file is acutally being used
2021-06-20 20:36:39	Umeaboy	Do I change them in the .config and rebuild?
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2021-06-20 20:37:02	Dagmar	Don't just assume some random Android guys aren't just copying their specific config into place and defconfig is never involved
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2021-06-20 20:37:41	Dagmar	Ideally you'd change them in the .config and then call `make oldconfig` against it so it can do some basic sanity checking
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2021-06-20 20:37:57	Umeaboy	OK.
2021-06-20 20:38:00	Dagmar	Slightly more sanity checking is available when you use `make menuconfig`, or at least it used to be
2021-06-20 20:38:21	Dagmar	I had a few builds fail because of some impossibly dumb options that oldconfig wouldn't catch, but menuconfig did
2021-06-20 20:38:32	Umeaboy	Oooooh.
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2021-06-20 20:39:11	Dagmar	Considering your build target, feel free to take _plenty_ of time trying to check things before the build
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2021-06-20 20:40:05	Umeaboy	Yeah. That's why I came here asking.
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2021-06-20 20:41:42	Dagmar	 It also wouldn't be out of the question (I think) to enable procconfig so you can scrutinize the for-sure-final-result once you've got the compiled kernel
2021-06-20 20:41:58	Dagmar	er configgz or whatevre it's called in the options.  You know the bit I'm talking about
2021-06-20 20:42:07	Dagmar	I just leave it on all the time
2021-06-20 20:42:50	sumthing1980_	what is the best gigabit router you recommend? brands?
2021-06-20 20:42:59	Dagmar	It's literally jsut a module that spools the gzipped .config out a pseudo-file in proc, so ti's not even significant "bloat" for a phone
2021-06-20 20:43:28	Dagmar	sumthing1980: For home stuff, tp-link and netgear aren't bad
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2021-06-20 20:44:06	sumthing1980_	it is a serious project like a search engine 5-10 computers
2021-06-20 20:44:10	Dagmar	They're both equally likely to include some imbecilic backdoor, but I think the ship has sailed on getting *any* consumer-level manufacturer to realize that's stupidity
2021-06-20 20:44:21	Dagmar	20 years later they're still doing it
2021-06-20 20:44:29	Umeaboy	sumthing1980_: Turris Omnia.
2021-06-20 20:44:32	Dagmar	Gigabit throughput just isn't that hard
2021-06-20 20:44:47	Umeaboy	https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router#/
2021-06-20 20:44:57	Dagmar	If you want to be SUPER SERIOUS about it, buy a low-end AMD board and CPU with enough lanes for hte two gigabit ethernet cards and a smal SSD and _build_ a router
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2021-06-20 20:45:30	Khaytsus	I've never had a gigabit router that didn't do gigabit..
2021-06-20 20:45:34	 *	Khaytsus shrugs
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2021-06-20 20:45:47	Dagmar	Gigabit has been around for long enough that it's no longer challenging for a manu
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2021-06-20 20:45:58	Dagmar	100Gbit or 20Gbit is a maybe
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2021-06-20 20:46:09	Dagmar	1gigglebit throughput is a doddle
2021-06-20 20:46:10	kodah	enterprise routers are just raspberry pis with all the lanes going to NIC slots
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2021-06-20 20:46:17	Dagmar	pretty much
2021-06-20 20:46:30	Dagmar	So like the cheapest AMD cpu you can buy will ahve more CPU power
2021-06-20 20:46:49	Dagmar	(well, of the recent Ryzen models)
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2021-06-20 20:47:01	sumthing1980_	for 16 ports I gotta build a pc with 16 ethernet cards then?
2021-06-20 20:47:12	Dagmar	Well, that depnds on if you want per-port control
2021-06-20 20:47:24	Dagmar	If you're going ot be using it like a switch, you can probably just buy a switch
2021-06-20 20:47:28	kodah	gigabit ports are really the least of your worries. usually you need to see what TPS the router is rated for.
2021-06-20 20:47:41	sumthing1980_	ok
2021-06-20 20:47:46	Dagmar	Plug router into switch, voila 15 free ports
2021-06-20 20:48:04	sumthing1980_	eeh
2021-06-20 20:48:08	fructose	I'm trying to connect to a captive portal, but NetworkManager keeps connecting and disconnecting before I can even get the authorization page to load. The journal has the message "Activation: (wifi) association took too long, failing activation" but I don't see any reason why. Any ideas?
2021-06-20 20:48:39	Dagmar	Bugs.  Possibly Atheros insanity
2021-06-20 20:48:52	fructose	I've tried two different wifi cards
2021-06-20 20:48:53	sumthing1980_	shit ffs I said router
2021-06-20 20:48:57	sumthing1980_	I meant switch
2021-06-20 20:49:12	sumthing1980_	16 or 24 ports
2021-06-20 20:49:15	sumthing1980_	what brand?
2021-06-20 20:49:16	Dagmar	If the driver doesn't report s/n ratios correctly (like CERTAIN VERSIONS FAIL AT) the machine will think the signal is too weak and try to hop on another one every freakin' 10 seconds
2021-06-20 20:49:27	Khaytsus	I've seen gigabit routers with 4 ports that could do 1gbit speed, total.  heh
2021-06-20 20:49:34	Umeaboy	fructose: Have you tried the same equipment in another house to see if the same problem happens then?
2021-06-20 20:49:46	fructose	10 seconds does seem about the time it stays connected
2021-06-20 20:49:47	Dagmar	sumthing1980: Oh for just a switch youc an pretty much roll into Best Buy and buy one made by netgear or t-link or even belkin and not much care
2021-06-20 20:49:53	Dagmar	...but it'll be much cheaper through Aamzon
2021-06-20 20:50:07	sumthing1980_	ok
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2021-06-20 20:50:19	fructose	Umeaboy: It's public wifi and not my equipment, so that would be a crime
2021-06-20 20:50:23	Dagmar	16-24 ports is kinda pricer than 8-ports but they're still cheap and stil available at "prosumer" levels
2021-06-20 20:50:36	Dagmar	If you need VLANS then you're looking at enterprise level switches
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2021-06-20 20:50:45	Dagmar	i.e., "managed switches"
2021-06-20 20:50:57	Dagmar	That is, if you want the _switch_ to manage the VLANs
2021-06-20 20:51:07	Umeaboy	fructose: OK. Ask whoever is in charge of the equipment to test using something else.
2021-06-20 20:51:09	Dagmar	Just doing your own vlan crap the switch doesn't have to know
2021-06-20 20:51:15	sumthing1980_	I dont need managed atm
2021-06-20 20:51:32	fructose	Umeaboy: There is no one to ask
2021-06-20 20:51:40	johnnyapol	thats a shame, i always thought captive portals were at the "just works" phase where all you need to do is navigate to some http page in your browser and let the redirect work.  if you connect using something like iwd or wpa_supplicant directly and bypass networkmanager, does it work?
2021-06-20 20:51:44	Umeaboy	Someone has to own it.
2021-06-20 20:51:55	UQUBE	i bought a ubiquiti sec pro 4 on ebay for cheap
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2021-06-20 20:52:08	UQUBE	less than 200USD iirc
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2021-06-20 20:52:14	Dagmar	johnnyapol: Usually they do but from that log message it seems wpa_supplicant is failing to realize he actually _did_ successfully associate to the AP
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2021-06-20 20:52:30	Dagmar	Checking teh driver version and firmware is in order
2021-06-20 20:52:38	kodah	ah, packets per second is the measurement i was looking for
2021-06-20 20:52:46	Dagmar	...adn then maybe throwing the Ralink card away and sticking a decent Intel card in
2021-06-20 20:53:08	kodah	not every manufacturer publishes pps though
2021-06-20 20:53:17	Dagmar	I do not tolerate underperforming wifi nics.
2021-06-20 20:53:22	kodah	mainly because it reveals how unfit their internals are for their claims
2021-06-20 20:53:28	Dagmar	Not when I can just go buy one that doesn't suck for like $8-15
2021-06-20 20:53:44	kodah	Dagmar: you have a home built router?
2021-06-20 20:53:48	Dagmar	I haave actually set a few Atheros minipcie cards on fire out of spite
2021-06-20 20:54:01	Dagmar	kodah: I have home built APs and routers
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2021-06-20 20:55:01	fructose	One is Intel 3165
2021-06-20 20:55:02	Dagmar	The only reason I bought the most recent Tp_link AP was that I needed AC throughput for some Oculus Quest 2 headsets and didn't have time to finish performance testing the external dongle I'd gotten for my most recent Pi4
2021-06-20 20:55:21	Dagmar	Otherwise I would have never bought that.  I have had enough of seeing announcement about stupid backdoors in teh damn things
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2021-06-20 20:55:52	Dagmar	Turning a Pi3/4 into an AP is literally ten minutes work or less
2021-06-20 20:56:03	Tassium	I'm semi-surprised you don't roll your own, yeah.
2021-06-20 20:56:13	Dagmar	They've just got the usual 24 sta limitation
2021-06-20 20:56:45	babyface	why is filling a disk with random data considered a more secure erase than filling the disk with zeros?
2021-06-20 20:56:49	Dagmar	Tassium: I have two, but not testing with for throughput and latency for the head-mounted displays can mean _vomiting into a bag_
2021-06-20 20:57:04	Dagmar	babyface: BEcause people can't read actual whitepapers
2021-06-20 20:57:04	sheep	babyface: if it were filled with zeroes, an attacker could determine how much of the disk is in use
2021-06-20 20:57:17	Dagmar	sheep: He's talking about erasure
2021-06-20 20:57:29	sumthing1980_	one switch says 16 ports, 1gbit each, and then it says 32 gbit switching capacity, more than 1 gbit for each port
2021-06-20 20:57:31	Dagmar	...not prepopulating an encrypted volume
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2021-06-20 20:57:54	sumthing1980_	how does that work
2021-06-20 20:57:58	Dagmar	sumthing1980: Which is marketings way of saying "We can use buzzword nonsense and you geeks will never know"
2021-06-20 20:58:18	sumthing1980_	hehe
2021-06-20 20:58:24	sumthing1980_	but geeks will figure it out
2021-06-20 20:58:27	Dagmar	Just expect that it means you'll mostly see full gigabit throughput to each host all the time
2021-06-20 20:58:33	babyface	is it really easier to recover data from a disk that's overwritten with zeros than a disk overwritten with random data?
2021-06-20 20:58:35	Dagmar	You'd really be suprised
2021-06-20 20:58:42	hodapp	 
2021-06-20 20:58:56	fructose	babyface: At least on magnetic disks, the overwrite still left information behind which was easier to extract if you knew what the new write
2021-06-20 20:58:58	Tassium	babyface: Probably, but either one of those is non-trivial for the average nerd
2021-06-20 20:58:59	hodapp	babyface: not on any modern disk.
2021-06-20 20:59:02	Dagmar	babyface: Yes, but it's like "Is it really easier to win the pick5 if two numbers of the 40 are known to not be in tomorrows picks"
2021-06-20 20:59:07	fructose	*write was
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2021-06-20 20:59:21	hodapp	fructose: that hasn't been the case in like 3 decades
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2021-06-20 20:59:26	kodah	babyface: any time you get into talking about "security" it's almost always boiled down to "what if" and how most cost (time, energy, money) you're willing to pay for peace of mind.
2021-06-20 20:59:56	Dagmar	Best case could be described as "you might get 12 digits of a credit card number, but three will be questionable and four will still be missing, if you use a very expensive research lab and are hunting for nuclear secrets"
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2021-06-20 21:00:06	kodah	babyface: there's some amount of "data driven" decision making you can make, but it's mostly hand wavey and relies on potential vectors and how bad those vectors could be for you
2021-06-20 21:00:29	Dagmar	That would also be from a drive full of credit card numbres
2021-06-20 21:00:49	Dagmar	You can't reasonably recover data from a modern drive thatg's been zero-filled once
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2021-06-20 21:01:08	fructose	hodapp: If by "like 3 decades" you mean "less than 3 decades", sure
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2021-06-20 21:01:53	hodapp	fructose: I am only aware of recovery of this sort being proven from MFM/RLL and the like
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2021-06-20 21:05:57	hodapp	and newer than that: good luck even getting any data recovery firm to even quote you the price of recovery after you tell them it was zero-filled
2021-06-20 21:06:56	fructose	hodapp: I just know it still applied to magnetic disks in use in the early 2000s and so the security advice was to wipe disks with random data. Whether anyone managed to recover significant amounts of data beyond a proof of concept, I can't say
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2021-06-20 21:07:48	Tassium	I have a sneaky suspicion it may be marketing at this point
2021-06-20 21:07:59	hodapp	yes, it was the security advice
2021-06-20 21:08:03	Tassium	"Look how secure our utility is, throw us money"
2021-06-20 21:08:40	hodapp	the nature of security advice is also that it is very slow to ever admit that a measure is overzealous or unnecessary
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2021-06-20 21:09:11	Tassium	Well, an easier way is to look at all the data leaks and unintended disclosures we've had in the last 10 years. Have any been from a zero-wiped disk?
2021-06-20 21:09:27	Tassium	It's always from something stupid, like a default admin account left active or something.
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2021-06-20 21:12:15	hodapp	and sneaky sneaky phishing attacks.
2021-06-20 21:13:36	kodah	Tassium: most data leaks are from open api's, not sophisticated, targeted attacks
2021-06-20 21:13:42	<--	thiras (~thiras@user/thiras) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:15:28	kodah	that's not to downplay hardening, targeted attacks are at thing, but most exfiltration occurs due to indexing with bad intentions
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2021-06-20 21:17:38	pacblinky	hey people
2021-06-20 21:18:11	paulo_	hey
2021-06-20 21:18:18	decompyler	people, hi
2021-06-20 21:18:41	pacblinky	i was just wondering
2021-06-20 21:18:45	pacblinky	who funds tor network
2021-06-20 21:18:55	kodah	the nsa /s
2021-06-20 21:19:07	pacblinky	why would they do that
2021-06-20 21:19:15	pnbeast	And you asked here because "people here know about computers"?
2021-06-20 21:19:17	sheep	it's not centrally funded
2021-06-20 21:19:43	rob`	in all seriousness the US NSA probably _should_ be funding projects that ensure citizen's data security, instead of being glorified domestic spooks :P
2021-06-20 21:19:54	pacblinky	pnbeast people  outside call it the deepweb
2021-06-20 21:19:57	pacblinky	thats why i am here
2021-06-20 21:20:03	kodah	rob`: they used to
2021-06-20 21:20:09	decompyler	taxation is most definitely centrally funded.
2021-06-20 21:20:10	rob`	the US doesn't really have much in the way of organizations trying to create a secure digital infrastructure
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2021-06-20 21:20:40	pacblinky	still thought they know people host illegel services in tor network and let it go
2021-06-20 21:20:41	kodah	rob`: the NSA has funded a number of the open source crypto algos we have
2021-06-20 21:20:44	Kyv	'deepweb' is just a salacious media turd of a term, I reckon
2021-06-20 21:20:59	pacblinky	indeed
2021-06-20 21:21:06	rob`	kodah: yeah, which is pretty great, I wish they'd do a lot more of it, though, instead of eg, stockpiling zero-days
2021-06-20 21:21:07	Kyv	i.e. darkweb, criminals and shady dealings in guns drugs and crypto
2021-06-20 21:21:19	pacblinky	which is wrong
2021-06-20 21:21:22	Kyv	forged documents and pony costumes
2021-06-20 21:21:28	decompyler	The government is criminal.
2021-06-20 21:21:33	<--	mikail (~mikail@2a02:c7f:bc9c:3100:ae93:93fc:603f:ceaf) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:21:40	kodah	rob`: yeah, i agree, there probably needs to be a different government agency doing what the nsa was doing back then
2021-06-20 21:21:46	<--	gry (~quassel@botters/gry) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:22:09	kodah	though, at that point, who watches the watchmen?
2021-06-20 21:22:55	rob`	ideally, balance of power by competing interests, I suppose. The so-called "checks and balances", though how you'd arrange that I don't know. :/
2021-06-20 21:23:11	pacblinky	hmm illuminati *coughs*
2021-06-20 21:23:19	pacblinky	but is it real
2021-06-20 21:23:26	pacblinky	or just social media crap
2021-06-20 21:23:32	decompyler	monopoly on violence = government
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2021-06-20 21:25:00	Dagmar	 I like the idea that the dark web is being used to sell pony costumes.
2021-06-20 21:25:02	Dagmar	It amuses me.
2021-06-20 21:25:13	pacblinky	hahaha
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2021-06-20 21:27:12	kodah	fitting
2021-06-20 21:28:17	kodah	i like the idea of having a bitcoin memo that says, "pony costume"
2021-06-20 21:28:47	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:29:04	Kyv	you get full documentation
2021-06-20 21:29:07	Kyv	it has its own passport
2021-06-20 21:29:16	decompyler	bitcoin is trackable ... privacy coins are where it is at.
2021-06-20 21:29:33	kodah	shows what i know about the dark web
2021-06-20 21:29:43	pacblinky	decompyler privacy coins?
2021-06-20 21:30:11	kodah	i'm just trying to avoid being indexed by creepy dudes who run open api indexers
2021-06-20 21:30:26	decompyler	yes privacy coins with built in encryption. Monero or Pirate Chain for example
2021-06-20 21:30:32	Kyv	they thought "cryptocurrency" was a little too obtuse and misled people to believing it was 100% anonymous
2021-06-20 21:30:42	Kyv	so they came up with "privacy coin"
2021-06-20 21:30:44	Kyv	:|
2021-06-20 21:31:01	Kyv	thats my guess, anyway
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2021-06-20 21:31:39	pacblinky	bitcoin is just made by the government to track people and monitor people needs usage
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2021-06-20 21:31:48	pacblinky	they do not do it now
2021-06-20 21:31:51	pacblinky	but later they will
2021-06-20 21:32:11	decompyler	yes this is why you dump your BTC to private coins
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2021-06-20 21:32:45	pacblinky	first time i hear about private coins
2021-06-20 21:32:56	Khaytsus	pacblinky: Isn't there a bridge somewhere missing its troll?
2021-06-20 21:32:59	Khaytsus	Begone.
2021-06-20 21:33:21	pacblinky	bruh
2021-06-20 21:33:29	decompyler	whaaa?
2021-06-20 21:33:59	decompyler	Eaze up on the gas Khaytsus
2021-06-20 21:34:22	pacblinky	here we go again speaking with riddles
2021-06-20 21:34:41	p0g0	slang more than riddles...
2021-06-20 21:34:53	pacblinky	thats why i love irc people they are geeks
2021-06-20 21:35:04	iflema	cracker?
2021-06-20 21:35:35	 *	iflema diggy diggy hole
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2021-06-20 21:35:58	pacblinky	( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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2021-06-20 21:37:11	thebuzzing	Dwarves?
2021-06-20 21:37:27	iflema	no future
2021-06-20 21:37:30	p0g0	troglodytes...
2021-06-20 21:37:31	decompyler	But yeah private coins are a thing.... Look it up. They cannot be tracked
2021-06-20 21:37:51	pacblinky	everything is track-able in virtual world
2021-06-20 21:37:59	<--	deivislk (~deivislk@189.7.117.212) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:38:02	p0g0	Then how do you know they got transered from old owner to new?
2021-06-20 21:38:03	thebuzzing	wownero FTW?
2021-06-20 21:38:04	paulo_	is private coins an easy way to hide bitcoin movement?
2021-06-20 21:38:19	p0g0	*transferred
2021-06-20 21:38:22	pacblinky	in-fact i think our whole world became virtual and money is the operating system
2021-06-20 21:38:26	mlu	all sorts of things with different properties
2021-06-20 21:38:27	paulo_	p0g0: you can't, you can only verify your own coins
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2021-06-20 21:38:38	Dagmar	Go on, tell us about your secret knowledge that fire is hot
2021-06-20 21:38:40	mlu	if I really want to hide some transactions, I use cash -- literally
2021-06-20 21:38:47	p0g0	that would make them useless as a currency then.
2021-06-20 21:38:51	--	vwork_ is now known as vwork
2021-06-20 21:38:58	mlu	bitcoin's great for international transactions though
2021-06-20 21:39:00	paulo_	p0g0: why?
2021-06-20 21:39:05	decompyler	that is the idea... push your BTC to private coin... no way for daddy to see where you are spending coin.
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2021-06-20 21:39:33	daddy	👀
2021-06-20 21:39:33	<--	patthoyts (~pat@2001:470:1f1d:26c:680a:d7f8:67b6:b3ca) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 21:39:42	decompyler	daddy!
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2021-06-20 21:41:17	p0g0	paulo_, well, how do I know I received anything genuine (not counterfeit), how do I know that it was you that paid?
2021-06-20 21:41:44	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 21:41:59	vwork	fwiw "deepweb" does have an actual definition, even if the media both created the term and doesn't know the difference between it and the "dark" one. Not sure how it ended up like that.
2021-06-20 21:42:05	-->	robin_ (~robin@193.32.127.227) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 21:42:25	pacblinky	p0g0 well thats how it works
2021-06-20 21:42:29	p0g0	If there is not a "medium of exchange" where currency can change hands, become fungible, it has little utility.
2021-06-20 21:42:30	paulo_	p0g0: hand out a unique address to the person paying you
2021-06-20 21:42:39	-->	mnrmnaugh (~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 21:42:40	paulo_	there's no way to counterfeit
2021-06-20 21:43:05	pacblinky	vwork indeed
2021-06-20 21:43:07	<--	sumthing1980_ (~sumthing1@94.54.64.154) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 21:43:08	p0g0	it sounds more like the algorithms know authenticity, but we humans don't
2021-06-20 21:43:14	-->	aquijoule__ (~richbridg@213-225-32-247.nat.highway.a1.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 21:43:33	pacblinky	if you want  privacy just  use cash
2021-06-20 21:43:45	-->	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has joined #linux
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2021-06-20 21:44:15	c705	^
2021-06-20 21:44:33	vwork	Hard to get it into small enough pieces that fit in the wires though
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2021-06-20 21:44:47	decompyler	unfortunatly all "money" is based on belief these days.
2021-06-20 21:44:52	Kyv	be careful
2021-06-20 21:45:07	Kyv	some guy might be just coming down off his molly and be very interested in telling you cash can be tracked
2021-06-20 21:45:10	p0g0	pacblinky, the US high denominations have a strip that burns in a microwave, suggesting metals, suggesting EM signatures.
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2021-06-20 21:47:40	vwork	That seems extremely likely and practical
2021-06-20 21:49:33	Bocaneri	p0g0, you've microwaved lots of high value bills, have you?
2021-06-20 21:50:08	--	paulo_ is now known as raisingang
2021-06-20 21:50:17	--	Time-Warp is now known as uplemmon
2021-06-20 21:50:25	danieldg	isn't that what everyone does with their money?
2021-06-20 21:50:34	-->	xrogaan (~xrogaan@user/xrogaan) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 21:51:42	decompyler	burry your money in gold/silver/seeds or private coins
2021-06-20 21:52:11	Kyv	bury them where
2021-06-20 21:52:13	p0g0	Bocaneri, not so many on purpose after the first torched strip.  I have also frozen then nuked many books, allergy problems...
2021-06-20 21:52:16	Kyv	in a MyPillow?
2021-06-20 21:52:18	--	raisingang is now known as paulo_
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2021-06-20 21:52:29	rascul	don't touch my mypillow
2021-06-20 21:52:40	p0g0	Bury it in the stock market...
2021-06-20 21:52:51	<--	omegatron (~some@p5b056bc7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Quit: What happened? You quit!)
2021-06-20 21:53:02	<--	Yasumoto (~Yasumoto@136.152.37.67) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-20 21:53:03	 *	rascul stocks the market with mypillows
2021-06-20 21:53:20	p0g0	smothers the market...
2021-06-20 21:53:22	Kyv	is there even enough room on mypillow for seed?
2021-06-20 21:53:41	decompyler	what kind of seed?
2021-06-20 21:53:42	rascul	sure, you can dump a packet of seeds on it
2021-06-20 21:53:54	p0g0	chia pillows!
2021-06-20 21:53:56	<--	fpombal (~fpombal@2001:818:d95d:a500:c707:f4e5:d1f1:783b) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-20 21:54:54	onelegend	chia coin
2021-06-20 21:55:14	onelegend	HDDs are pretty dope btw
2021-06-20 21:55:40	decompyler	don't burry your seed in your pillows. That is unsanitary.
2021-06-20 21:55:53	onelegend	nah, it's good for you
2021-06-20 21:55:55	Khaytsus	This channel wasn't infested with trolls for a few weeks :-/  I knew it'd end.
2021-06-20 21:56:03	onelegend	it can plant great ideas in your mind
2021-06-20 21:58:01	decompyler	Whos a troll Khaytsus?
2021-06-20 21:58:02	rascul	Khaytsus pay the toll or stay on your side of the bridge
2021-06-20 21:58:27	onelegend	the grass is always greener on the other side
2021-06-20 21:58:37	-->	Yasumoto (~Yasumoto@136.152.37.67) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 21:58:40	rascul	not on my side
2021-06-20 21:58:47	rascul	keep your green grass to yourself
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2021-06-20 21:59:06	onelegend	rascul: green grass means better food
2021-06-20 21:59:17	rascul	i don't eat grass, green or otherwise
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2021-06-20 21:59:23	p0g0	onelegend, better for whom?
2021-06-20 21:59:28	onelegend	better for the cows
2021-06-20 21:59:32	onelegend	and healthy cows means better steak
2021-06-20 21:59:34	rascul	no cows here
2021-06-20 21:59:36	p0g0	bloat?
2021-06-20 21:59:47	onelegend	p0g0: YO HOLD UP THERE
2021-06-20 21:59:51	onelegend	HOW DID YA CHANGE UR COLOR
2021-06-20 22:00:00	<--	upekkha (~Advanced@2a01:4f8:1c0c:49df::1) has quit (Quit: upekkha)
2021-06-20 22:00:07	p0g0	chameleon mode
2021-06-20 22:00:09	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 22:00:16	onelegend	oh
2021-06-20 22:00:23	p0g0	an array of tiny mirrors
2021-06-20 22:00:30	rascul	ugh
2021-06-20 22:00:36	 *	iflema fu$%&ng lizard
2021-06-20 22:00:37	-->	upekkha (~Advanced@2a01:4f8:1c0c:49df::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 22:00:39	p0g0	with metamaterial surfaces
2021-06-20 22:00:51	<--	slavfox (~slavfox@93.158.232.111) has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-06-20 22:00:54	rascul	metamaterials are the best
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2021-06-20 22:01:11	p0g0	If I needed a new career, I'd consider them.
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2021-06-20 22:03:08	rascul	i love that feeling when rustc builds my program on the first try without any errors or warnings
2021-06-20 22:03:51	decompyler	... any build with no errors is amazing!
2021-06-20 22:04:14	rascul	even more so when it's rust
2021-06-20 22:04:36	decompyler	congrats!
2021-06-20 22:04:48	rascul	it was barely more than a hello world type thing though
2021-06-20 22:04:58	p0g0	aww, you had to tell us that?
2021-06-20 22:05:21	rascul	i didn't want any illusions about the code i had written
2021-06-20 22:05:23	decompyler	I don't know why projects devs don't include all dependencies by default.
2021-06-20 22:05:33	rascul	they don't?
2021-06-20 22:05:40	p0g0	they may not know them
2021-06-20 22:05:47	rascul	or maybe we have different ideas of what "include" means
2021-06-20 22:05:51	mlu	decompyler: and where should you get your dependencies?
2021-06-20 22:06:08	<--	Umbire (~UmbireThe@user/umbire) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-20 22:06:11	mlu	decompyler: (hint: dangerous to just trust "the internet")
2021-06-20 22:06:11	p0g0	well, as libraries change they may add new dependencies, etc.
2021-06-20 22:06:28	rascul	should my fancy hello world program ship with glibc sources?
2021-06-20 22:06:29	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Quit: my karma ran over your dogma)
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2021-06-20 22:06:45	p0g0	so a client of those libs in a build may have new dependencies.
2021-06-20 22:07:23	Bocaneri	Sometimes, they DO include all dependencies. They're called snaps, flatpaks and other things of such nature.
2021-06-20 22:07:47	rascul	please don't snap though
2021-06-20 22:07:48	rascul	snap is bad
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2021-06-20 22:08:28	Kyv	but Ive got all those coupons to the snap store
2021-06-20 22:08:55	Kyv	somebody better snap
2021-06-20 22:09:01	rascul	i will not snap
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2021-06-20 22:09:24	rascul	canonical doesn't need to control the software on my computer
2021-06-20 22:09:37	[[R]]	snaps for rascul
2021-06-20 22:09:53	ionface	I got like 25 snap packs at costco, they're pretty nice actually. Just the right size for meal prep.
2021-06-20 22:09:56	 *	rascul smashes [[R]]'s fingers
2021-06-20 22:09:58	decompyler	id rather snap than go on an eater egg hunt for dependancies to make your project build.
2021-06-20 22:10:31	Kyv	not your computer
2021-06-20 22:10:35	Kyv	canonicals computer
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2021-06-20 22:10:56	rascul	installing snap means giving your computer to canonical
2021-06-20 22:11:03	Kyv	you just watching it like babysitter
2021-06-20 22:11:22	Kyv	dont even have the key to the refrigerator
2021-06-20 22:11:51	<--	zeden (~zeden@user/zeden) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-06-20 22:11:56	decompyler	meh sometimes you just want software to work.
2021-06-20 22:12:01	[[R]]	rascul: bend ove
2021-06-20 22:12:02	[[R]]	r
2021-06-20 22:12:22	 *	rascul stands up
2021-06-20 22:12:34	rascul	decompyler snap doesn't solve that for me
2021-06-20 22:12:45	decompyler	not for me either
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2021-06-20 22:14:16	rascul	i don't know much about flatpak or appimage but i understand that you do not need to sacrifice your soul to a corporation to use them
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2021-06-20 22:14:45	Kyv	flatpaks are just as bad
2021-06-20 22:15:00	decompyler	 ... and appimage?
2021-06-20 22:15:11	decompyler	is everything bad?
2021-06-20 22:15:20	Kyv	pretty much, yeah
2021-06-20 22:15:30	rascul	super bad or just regular bad?
2021-06-20 22:15:30	Kyv	I dont have an opinion on appimage
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2021-06-20 22:15:57	alschaapman	Hey question about audio capture with OBS Studio
2021-06-20 22:16:11	ionface	flatpaks are basically wine prefixes with a bunch of custom libs, not that bad unless you let it auto-update
2021-06-20 22:16:32	<--	Disconsented (~quassel@107.170.227.20) has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-06-20 22:16:33	alschaapman	When I playback my recordings, the volume is really quiet, because apparently it's getting recorded at whatever volume the *output* was set to while the capture was being created
2021-06-20 22:17:03	decompyler	can linux just stop for being nerds only and start being usable for the sheeple
2021-06-20 22:17:09	alschaapman	I used to know how to fix this so that the audio always goes into the recording at full volume but now I can't figure it out. I thought I was supposed to tick off "Lock Volume" in the mixer but evidently that's not it
2021-06-20 22:17:15	rascul	decompyler no, of course not
2021-06-20 22:17:16	Kyv	except they break something or another constantly, fonts, themes, or something based on some other permission it doesn't have
2021-06-20 22:17:36	Kyv	this is excused because they are containerized and secure (no)
2021-06-20 22:18:03	-->	vicfred_ (~vicfred@fixed-187-191-48-110.totalplay.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 22:18:16	decompyler	Yall see Lunduke's "linux sucks" presentation for 2021
2021-06-20 22:18:31	<--	Umeaboy (~Umeaboy@94-255-145-133.cust.bredband2.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-20 22:18:51	Kamui	who?
2021-06-20 22:18:55	ionface	alschaapman, pavucontrol -> Recording, what do you have set for OBS?
2021-06-20 22:19:33	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-20 22:20:05	rud0lf	what's the content, decompyler, it has no weather widget and can't run popular games?
2021-06-20 22:20:15	<--	vicfred_ (~vicfred@fixed-187-191-48-110.totalplay.net) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-20 22:20:16	alschaapman	ionface: Monitor of <default output device>
2021-06-20 22:21:01	alschaapman	In my case it's either Built-in Audio Analog Stereo or a bluetooth headset for <default>
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2021-06-20 22:21:14	decompyler	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtJ9T_IJOPE
2021-06-20 22:21:34	ionface	alschaapman, and your OUTput volume is being used in OBS? I'm installing now to see this
2021-06-20 22:21:47	-->	rateliux (ratelius@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/ratelius) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 22:22:54	alschaapman	ionface: Yeah, it's always been that way. This issue goes way back
2021-06-20 22:23:14	-->	ahungry (~user@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 22:23:17	alschaapman	I used to know what to do to fix it and it was pretty simple. I could have sworn I was just supposed to tick off "Lock Volume" in the mixer, but that's clearly not it
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2021-06-20 22:24:35	alschaapman	It's possible that this is something specific to the workings of PulseAudio
2021-06-20 22:24:51	alschaapman	I asked over in OBS Project's IRC but I wonder if it's mainly Windows folk in there
2021-06-20 22:24:55	<--	ratelius (ratelius@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/ratelius) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-20 22:25:00	ionface	yeah, I was thinking creating a sink and a monitor loop or something, but that's not simple
2021-06-20 22:25:33	alschaapman	Or maybe "Lock Volume" *was* the solution at one point but something changed in OBS that made it work differently?
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2021-06-20 22:26:35	alschaapman	Wayland screen capture with Pipewire in the new 27.0 release is great
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2021-06-20 22:34:56	Kyv	sounds like they are really breaking ground over there
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2021-06-20 22:40:58	ionface	alschaapman, advanced audio properties -> check Volume [ ] %?
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2021-06-20 22:41:12	ionface	that's putting it from dB to 100% for me
2021-06-20 22:41:55	ionface	maybe it's being adjusted in there?
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2021-06-20 22:42:34	ionface	are your recordings set to same as stream?
2021-06-20 22:42:40	alschaapman	Nah, it's always 100% because I've never adjusted that level
2021-06-20 22:42:52	alschaapman	It will only be something other than 100% if you change the slider *in OBS*
2021-06-20 22:43:21	alschaapman	Changing the volume in PulseAudio doesn't create any change there, in advanced audio properties
2021-06-20 22:43:34	alschaapman	ionface: I'm not sure what you mean by same as stream
2021-06-20 22:43:50	ionface	since you have pipewire, any chance audio is routed through something there?
2021-06-20 22:44:10	alschaapman	I think it's unlikely. I'm not using Pipewire as the sound server
2021-06-20 22:44:13	alschaapman	Been meaning to try it out though
2021-06-20 22:44:15	ionface	there are recording to disk options, like high quality big filesize, and same as stream etc
2021-06-20 22:45:45	alschaapman	I'm using Arch with all the latest repo packages. Doubt that has any bearing, but I guess I never made any mention of distribution
2021-06-20 22:45:48	ionface	so before when you had this problem, did you make any pulse audio changes like adding sinks or switching from monitor to hardware?
2021-06-20 22:46:06	alschaapman	No, definitely no changes to Pulse configuration. It was something that I did in OBS Studio
2021-06-20 22:46:16	alschaapman	And it was something REALLY simple
2021-06-20 22:47:00	alschaapman	I know I've said this before, but I really could swear "Lock Volume" was the thing, and I'm starting to wonder if something about how OBS handles sound changed in a way that affected the working of that option
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2021-06-20 22:47:13	ionface	wait, are your streams also low? I remember a filter to gain volume output
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2021-06-20 22:47:31	alschaapman	Nah, that wasn't it
2021-06-20 22:47:43	alschaapman	Wouldn't that degrade audio quality, adding gain?
2021-06-20 22:47:49	ionface	lock volume is there, it's just it only grays out the 100% volume so you can't change it
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2021-06-20 22:48:30	ionface	probably, but it was a popular thing a few years ago, probably due to windows sound system
2021-06-20 22:48:32	alschaapman	I'm not even sure what "Lock Volume" is supposed to do. I should try to find some documentation
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2021-06-20 22:49:17	alschaapman	I did see the gain filter suggestion web searching around for answers but I'm 100% certain I didn't add an audio filter to fix this in the past
2021-06-20 22:49:27	alschaapman	So were you able to reproduce the behavior I'm describing?
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2021-06-20 22:51:59	ionface	https://i.imgur.com/HOlMSYH.png
2021-06-20 22:52:02	ionface	that's all it does for me
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2021-06-20 22:52:49	alschaapman	Right, that's all the visual feedback I get as well
2021-06-20 22:53:03	alschaapman	But again, I haven't read any documentation that would give me an answer about what that option is actually supposed to do
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2021-06-20 22:53:48	ionface	wait so there's a track option in the advanced recording options
2021-06-20 22:54:09	alschaapman	Advanced recording options? Where is that?
2021-06-20 22:54:25	alschaapman	I need to record in like five minutes btw
2021-06-20 22:54:27	ionface	output
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2021-06-20 22:56:21	alschaapman	There's just a bunch of bitrates in there
2021-06-20 22:57:06	alschaapman	Eh I guess I'll just have to leave the output device volume at 100%
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2021-06-20 23:49:57	KillerWasp	hello, anyone here know which emulator of gameboy advance can open #.SGM files?
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2021-06-20 23:50:17	hell_fire	google?
2021-06-20 23:50:58	KillerWasp	hell_fire# without your help the world would be lost. *sigh*
2021-06-20 23:51:12	KillerWasp	anyone other?
2021-06-20 23:51:19	hell_fire	:D
2021-06-20 23:52:13	decompyler	duckduckgo
2021-06-20 23:52:19	hell_fire	lol
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2021-06-20 23:52:36	rindolf	KillerWasp: heh, "i must play gameboy game..." cannot play
2021-06-20 23:53:17	KillerWasp	rindolf# what?
2021-06-20 23:54:04	<--	RoseKitsune (~RoseKitsu@user/rosekitsune) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-20 23:54:16	[[R]]	KillerWasp: how did you make these sgm files?
2021-06-20 23:54:27	rindolf	KillerWasp: heh, "i must play gameboy game or the world blowsup" - https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-tech-diary/blob/master/hydrogen-bombs-are-likely-an-old-intelligence-hoax.asciidoc
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2021-06-20 23:56:11	Dagmar	Why is github now hosting crap that wouldn't pass muster on Encyclopedia Dramatica?
2021-06-20 23:56:17	KillerWasp	[[R]]# I don't remember, it was a few years ago on some previous 32-bit system. I think it was 'VisualBoy Advance', or 'visualboyadvance' (package or binary name), but I'm not sure.
2021-06-20 23:56:20	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-20 23:56:36	Dagmar	That page is full of weapons-grade stupid.
2021-06-20 23:56:45	EdFletcher	"Plotunium"
2021-06-20 23:56:46	[[R]]	KillerWasp: and what did google say?
2021-06-20 23:57:08	KillerWasp	[[R]]# erm... google is obsolete, now all is duckduckgo...
2021-06-20 23:57:14	[[R]]	ROFL
2021-06-20 23:57:24	KillerWasp	:P
2021-06-20 23:57:33	-->	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 23:57:56	Psi-Jack	EdFletcher: Misspelling detected.
2021-06-20 23:58:05	-->	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has joined #linux
2021-06-20 23:58:26	EdFletcher	Psi-Jack: indeed, in a document specifically about nuclear weapons :facepalm:
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2021-06-20 23:59:55	rindolf	Dagmar: you can host whatever you want on gh, and yoou are censoring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdVjVtpr55M
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2021-06-21 00:00:51	Dagmar	rindolf: Allow me to express how many s**ts I give about that
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2021-06-21 00:01:13	rindolf	'[OFFICIAL VIDEO] The Sound of Silence - Pentatonix - YouTube'
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2021-06-21 00:01:27	sublim20	well, how many shits is it?
2021-06-21 00:01:36	sublim20	vegas has the over/under at 3.5
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2021-06-21 00:01:53	rindolf	Dagmar: bring it on!
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2021-06-21 00:02:05	Dagmar	https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-community-guidelines#misinformation-and-disinformation
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2021-06-21 00:02:40	rindolf	Dagmar: unenforcable
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2021-06-21 00:03:00	KillerWasp	wow, how many operators awake. :O
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2021-06-21 00:03:30	@Bocaneri	KillerWasp, global notice: services will be going down in a little while. This is a precautionary measure.
2021-06-21 00:03:45	-->	lukedashjr (~luke-jr@user/luke-jr) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 00:03:46	[[R]]	🎶 it's going down down...
2021-06-21 00:03:47	KillerWasp	Bocaneri# yes, i already saw
2021-06-21 00:03:48	name_	is this why i was disconnected?
2021-06-21 00:03:52	-->	LuKaRo_ (~LuKaRo@p5deda293.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 00:03:58	sublim20	no.  you were disconnected out of spite.
2021-06-21 00:03:58	@Bocaneri	KillerWasp, in your channel(s): op up.
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2021-06-21 00:04:18	@Bocaneri	name_, give me a moment to look...
2021-06-21 00:04:18	rindolf	Dagmar: and these are just guidelines
2021-06-21 00:04:21	name_	where do you see this message?
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2021-06-21 00:05:10	@Bocaneri	name_, I don't see your disconnect line. :\
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2021-06-21 00:05:19	name_	oh well
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2021-06-21 00:05:24	name_	no worries
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2021-06-21 00:06:04	@Bocaneri	Nope, none at all. When services go down, you don't get disconnected, but if it happens that you disconnect and try to log back on while services are down, you won't be able to log into nickserv.
2021-06-21 00:06:13	@Bocaneri	That's all it means.
2021-06-21 00:06:27	name_	ok cool ty
2021-06-21 00:06:49	KillerWasp	seem that visualboy emulator is dead or obsolete... :(
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2021-06-21 00:07:34	name_	oh man what a bummer
2021-06-21 00:07:42	name_	no alternative?
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2021-06-21 00:08:07	rindolf	Dagmar: https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/culture/case-for-commercial-fan-fiction/indiv-nodes/guidelines_as_dogma.xhtml
2021-06-21 00:08:10	KillerWasp	only vbam-sdl and mgba-sdl... bad options...
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2021-06-21 00:08:37	KillerWasp	and nothing work with SGM
2021-06-21 00:08:52	name_	not the same as visual boy advanced?
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2021-06-21 00:09:17	KillerWasp	http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/gba/
2021-06-21 00:09:21	KillerWasp	i found the list
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2021-06-21 00:09:33	KillerWasp	i guess is 'Visual Boy Advance'
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2021-06-21 00:09:44	name_	where does it say outdated?
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2021-06-21 00:09:49	KillerWasp	but only exist for Windows
2021-06-21 00:09:56	Dagmar	There's the last thing that's been missing.  Violent netsplits.  :)
2021-06-21 00:10:06	KillerWasp	name_# here: http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/gba/vboyadvance.html
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2021-06-21 00:10:30	KillerWasp	1.8.0 the last, others are 1.7.3, but very old...
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2021-06-21 00:11:39	KillerWasp	It seems that I found the link to the official website during the search, but it doesn't work, it just shows all white.
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2021-06-21 00:11:55	craigevil	retroarch doesn't have a gab emulator?
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2021-06-21 00:12:17	KillerWasp	craigevil# is same to mgba or vbam
2021-06-21 00:12:22	name_	it does if irc
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2021-06-21 00:13:15	craigevil	yes it uses mgba
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2021-06-21 00:15:10	sozuba	Dagmar, Thanks :)
2021-06-21 00:15:21	KillerWasp	https://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Emulators/Visualboy-Advance-3469.shtml
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2021-06-21 00:15:50	KillerWasp	i gues that's the emulator that i used.
2021-06-21 00:15:55	KillerWasp	guess*
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2021-06-21 00:17:06	KillerWasp	mmmm... i must try download and execute it?...
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2021-06-21 00:20:06	KillerWasp	https://sourceforge.net/projects/vba/
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2021-06-21 00:27:24	KillerWasp	Yes, he's really dead. someone else needs to take it. He is more than 5 years old without modification, and all reports are ignored. :(
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2021-06-21 00:33:13	cuavas	KillerWasp: no-one should be using VBA any more, there are better emulators like mGBA
2021-06-21 00:33:59	KillerWasp	https://vba.ngemu.com/ - this's the website, i found again.
2021-06-21 00:34:10	KillerWasp	it show all white?
2021-06-21 00:34:39	KillerWasp	cuavas# why not?
2021-06-21 00:35:10	cuavas	better emulators are more accurate, play more games correctly
2021-06-21 00:35:42	cuavas	we know a lot more about the GBA now than we did when VBA was written
2021-06-21 00:36:00	cuavas	older emulators tend to use hacks to work around poor emulation
2021-06-21 00:36:50	 *	[[R]] emulates cuavas 
2021-06-21 00:38:17	 *	_c705 connects to [[R]] 
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2021-06-21 00:39:00	KillerWasp	cuavas# mgba seems to be better, but has trouble loading snapshots and causes it to close.
2021-06-21 00:39:03	[[R]]	my firewall blocks your connection attempt
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2021-06-21 00:40:22	c705	no it didn't, i sent an ack
2021-06-21 00:40:51	[[R]]	and it was blocked
2021-06-21 00:40:55	[[R]]	dropped liek it washot
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2021-06-21 00:48:28	loganlee	guys is libglu1 package same as libglu1-mesa?
2021-06-21 00:48:38	esselfe	should
2021-06-21 00:48:51	esselfe	mesa usually provides gl/glu
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2021-06-21 00:49:35	loganlee	ok...
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2021-06-21 00:50:58	loganlee	if i uninstall a deb package will it delete all files it copied?
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2021-06-21 00:55:12	esselfe	loganlee: well I double checked and glu is also a package of its own
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2021-06-21 00:55:19	esselfe	so those two might differ
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2021-06-21 00:56:10	loganlee	ok... esselfe i got a deb file and i checked its dependency and it listed libglu1... i might not have it
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2021-06-21 00:58:15	twainwek	anyone familiar with borg backup
2021-06-21 00:58:32	twainwek	would it suffice to rsync the backup directory to another drive to have a back up of a backup
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2021-06-21 01:02:31	Kyv	additional updates provided as a _heck_ of a _wallop_
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2021-06-21 01:05:42	@DLange	twainwek: yes, but you also need a backup / safe storage of the encryption key used
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2021-06-21 01:06:40	@DLange	twainwek: if the path changes it will re-index chunks stored. So if you ever restore from the backup-backup move it (back) in place of the correct path to save you that re-indexing
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2021-06-21 01:15:06	loganlee	how do i simulate if a deb file will be successfully installed? like it has all the dependencies it needs? i tried dpkg --dry-run -i *.deb but it is not informative
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2021-06-21 01:19:26	@Bocaneri	What does it output?
2021-06-21 01:19:57	loganlee	not much
2021-06-21 01:20:16	loganlee	"Preparing to unpack .../blah.deb ..."
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2021-06-21 01:20:53	hexnewbie	Debian description for proftpd: “Because of the advanced design, anonymous-FTP directories can have an arbitrary internal structure (bin, lib, etc, and special files are not needed). Advanced features such as multiple password files and upload/download ratios are also supported.” LOL. Still in the dial-up Metallica warez era? I don't even *remember* a time when bin/lib/etc were required for FTP
2021-06-21 01:22:33	[[R]]	hexnewbie: the 90s
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2021-06-21 01:23:06	zbe	twainwek, why not just make another repo on that drive and take another backup with borg directly? I think thats what they recommend.
2021-06-21 01:23:08	theproffesor	you can just do dpkg -I some.deb loganlee. It will not check the dependencies but it will show them
2021-06-21 01:23:12	hexnewbie	That has to be the early 90s, when I've only seen the Internet on TV. Albeit I did upload my site to Geocities *before* I had Internet.
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2021-06-21 01:24:16	[[R]]	hexnewbie: did you mail them a floppy disk?
2021-06-21 01:24:23	loganlee	theproffesor: yep it says it need libglu1
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2021-06-21 01:24:40	hexnewbie	A floppy disk was certainly involved
2021-06-21 01:25:06	loganlee	i was hoping --dry-run will show errors without installing the deb
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2021-06-21 01:29:23	loganlee	i'm afraid to install the deb file because it might break my system
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2021-06-21 01:29:46	chrisawi	loganlee: what about using apt -s install ./some.deb ?
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2021-06-21 01:32:40	loganlee	chrisawi: thanks for that... seems to work
2021-06-21 01:32:57	loganlee	no errors
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2021-06-21 01:38:10	loganlee	if i do apt remove blah.deb will it remove all the files it copied?
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2021-06-21 01:40:07	Gustavo6046	ugh
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2021-06-21 01:40:17	Gustavo6046	WHY, WHY does USB lock up whenever the system does?
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2021-06-21 01:40:21	Gustavo6046	if USB is a kernel thing
2021-06-21 01:40:33	Gustavo6046	Why is the kernel allowed to be locked up by anything other than itself, at all?!
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2021-06-21 01:40:43	Gustavo6046	That is stupid, self-destructive, my file system cries, my patience does too.
2021-06-21 01:40:51	Gustavo6046	I'm no masochist, Linux users are.
2021-06-21 01:41:09	schillingklaus	gustavo is a sadist
2021-06-21 01:41:09	Gustavo6046	We get a lot of nice things, sure, but at what cost?
2021-06-21 01:41:15	Gustavo6046	Then again it goes the other way around too
2021-06-21 01:41:21	Gustavo6046	I don't think either precludes the other
2021-06-21 01:41:23	Gustavo6046	schillingklaus: nah
2021-06-21 01:41:29	Gustavo6046	I don't wanna hurt any of ya
2021-06-21 01:41:30	TJ-	Gustavo6046: choose a micro-kernel instead then
2021-06-21 01:41:39	Gustavo6046	what, that's worse
2021-06-21 01:41:43	Gustavo6046	it moves everything away from the kernel
2021-06-21 01:41:45	Gustavo6046	including USB input support
2021-06-21 01:42:05	schillingklaus	baby don't hurd me, don't hurd me, gnu more.
2021-06-21 01:42:11	Gustavo6046	this system is so flimsy, anything even slightly off the rails and everything blows itself and their dog up.
2021-06-21 01:42:39	Gustavo6046	I'm this tired. One more silly thing like this happening to my poor computer and I'm moving to OpenBSD.
2021-06-21 01:44:01	chrisawi	loganlee: you have to trust that the package isn't broken, it could do literally anything in the maintainer scripts
2021-06-21 01:44:12	mlu	Gustavo6046: flimsy hardware does not a good OS fix
2021-06-21 01:44:14	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@185.180.12.45) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:44:27	Gustavo6046	mlu: flimsy hardware does not a lockup justify.
2021-06-21 01:44:35	Gustavo6046	the only thing flimsy about this is the hard disk
2021-06-21 01:44:41	Gustavo6046	and maaaybe the dGPU
2021-06-21 01:44:42	mlu	flimsy hardware should go out the window :)
2021-06-21 01:44:51	mlu	(of course, only the flimsy parts)
2021-06-21 01:45:05	-->	quarkyalice (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:45:08	Gustavo6046	so should the third world, but alas, we can't do that.
2021-06-21 01:45:15	Gustavo6046	I have to put up with this nonsense
2021-06-21 01:45:44	Gustavo6046	It locked up when I tried to run Rise of Nations: EE on Wine
2021-06-21 01:45:47	mlu	aren't there good hardware available for cheap?
2021-06-21 01:45:52	Gustavo6046	No
2021-06-21 01:45:52	loganlee	chrisawi: ok
2021-06-21 01:45:58	Gustavo6046	there absolutely isn't, not here in Brazil
2021-06-21 01:46:10	Gustavo6046	and even less so now with the massive inflation this stupid new government has inflicted
2021-06-21 01:46:40	Gustavo6046	anyway, after messing around with winetricks and wineboot and stuff, I had finally managed to get the game's launcher to run ... only to be met with everything mega-freezing, my mouse doing nothing, the numpad light being unresponsive to numpad presses...
2021-06-21 01:46:46	Gustavo6046	The numpad light does that when things are REAL bad.
2021-06-21 01:46:50	Gustavo6046	And ONLY when things are real bad.
2021-06-21 01:47:00	Gustavo6046	My system isn't even all that bad
2021-06-21 01:47:01	-->	GadgeteerZA (~admin@user/gadgeteerza) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:47:08	mlu	oh, Brazil: fuck the government and their IT tarriffs
2021-06-21 01:47:11	Gustavo6046	It's not a lack of computer power
2021-06-21 01:47:21	<--	rateliux (ratelius@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/ratelius) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2-rc1)
2021-06-21 01:47:22	-->	kollinz (~morpheus@user/kollinz) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:47:22	mlu	you'd get cheaper parts in a 4th world country
2021-06-21 01:47:24	Gustavo6046	Yes, ditto, very much
2021-06-21 01:47:27	Gustavo6046	LOL, yeah
2021-06-21 01:47:31	-->	CrustY_ (~crusty@2001:a61:3b63:cb01:bfc3:3357:e84d:d7b0) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:48:53	schillingklaus	such as brazil's neighbours Bolivia, Perou,...
2021-06-21 01:48:53	Gustavo6046	I'm gonna try the thing again
2021-06-21 01:49:05	mlu	hmm, but how about the rasperry pi? even with those crazy tarriffs
2021-06-21 01:49:13	Gustavo6046	How do I prevent it from absolutely headshotting the whole running system down this time?
2021-06-21 01:49:19	Gustavo6046	nice -n10?
2021-06-21 01:49:29	-->	Guest3145 (~Guest31@196.40.114.250) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 01:49:59	budlight	hi
2021-06-21 01:50:26	sss	What is the average computer enthusiast using for a CPU in Brazil nowadays?
2021-06-21 01:50:27	-->	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:50:47	 *	mlu wonders if there's any computer component companies in brazil
2021-06-21 01:51:08	schillingklaus	wasn't there once a non-unix desktop environment named Brazil?
2021-06-21 01:51:11	<--	kollinz (~morpheus@user/kollinz) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-21 01:51:31	Gustavo6046	sss: I dunno how to answer that
2021-06-21 01:51:39	Gustavo6046	I don't know the average computer enthusiast
2021-06-21 01:51:53	Gustavo6046	or honestly all that much about other people here
2021-06-21 01:51:56	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:52:05	<--	Guest3145 (~Guest31@196.40.114.250) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-21 01:52:06	Gustavo6046	apart from my family
2021-06-21 01:52:07	pnbeast	There was a movie (about a window cleaner) named Brazil.
2021-06-21 01:52:37	[[R]]	pnbeast: theres an AC guy named brazil here
2021-06-21 01:52:40	[[R]]	george brazil
2021-06-21 01:53:17	sss	What is the price for  4-6 year old Intel quad core processor compared to wages nowadays?
2021-06-21 01:53:20	Gustavo6046	okay, I set every process except xfce4-session and start.exe (the RON launcher?) to be nice level 1. xfce4-session has nice 0, and the laucnher has nice 10
2021-06-21 01:53:40	<--	x88x88x (~x88x88x@188.214.106.84) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 01:53:59	Gustavo6046	HOPEFULLY! that mitigates any trainwrecks titaniciceberggings hindenburgblastin's that dare screw with the in-kernel usb pci stuff
2021-06-21 01:54:33	pnbeast	[[R]], I was wrong.  My guy was a "renegade heating engineer".  Are you sure George is in AC and not heating?
2021-06-21 01:54:35	-->	kollinz (~morpheus@user/kollinz) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 01:55:09	mlu	it's a big decision on whether or not to have services at a Brazilian datacenter :)
2021-06-21 01:55:12	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 01:55:20	[[R]]	pnbeast: was he a renegade of funk?
2021-06-21 01:55:21	mlu	that was my exposure to the general costs
2021-06-21 01:55:23	ionface	I thought he was a zipline safety coordinator
2021-06-21 01:56:31	-->	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 01:58:38	schillingklaus	ok, switch to theo de raadt os aka OpenBSD. At least it's the most likely to resist systemd for a few years more.
2021-06-21 01:58:53	Gustavo6046	aa
2021-06-21 01:58:57	Gustavo6046	why is kernel.sysrq ever disabled by default
2021-06-21 01:58:59	Gustavo6046	that's stupid
2021-06-21 01:59:05	Gustavo6046	it might be the actual reason input fails
2021-06-21 01:59:09	Gustavo6046	maybe it's just X being X
2021-06-21 01:59:24	Gustavo6046	even though, ctrl+alt+f[N] to change to a text tty for emergency doesn't work eitehr
2021-06-21 01:59:36	-->	MichaelLong (~ml@2a00:6020:21fb:6300:694f:8203:5ac6:f094) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 01:59:57	[[R]]	well seeing as systemd requires linux
2021-06-21 02:00:01	[[R]]	it's probably a safe bet
2021-06-21 02:00:08	schillingklaus	wayland is worse
2021-06-21 02:00:28	Gustavo6046	I've tried wayland
2021-06-21 02:00:30	Gustavo6046	it's lighter
2021-06-21 02:00:33	Gustavo6046	more specifically I tried Weston
2021-06-21 02:00:35	-->	neltraus (~neltraus@supernova.neltraus.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:00:38	@Bocaneri	Gustavo6046, what distro are you running and what DE?
2021-06-21 02:00:42	Gustavo6046	it's lighter but I dunno if it'd be saner
2021-06-21 02:00:49	Gustavo6046	my forrays in it were a bit limited
2021-06-21 02:00:52	Gustavo6046	Bocaneri: Manjaro Linux, XFCE.
2021-06-21 02:00:57	Gustavo6046	want neofetch?
2021-06-21 02:01:08	schillingklaus	weston is onlty suited for mouse fetishists
2021-06-21 02:01:09	Gustavo6046	(the only command I remember that gives modestly comprehensive system info)
2021-06-21 02:01:14	Gustavo6046	schillingklaus: true
2021-06-21 02:01:17	Gustavo6046	weston is kinda lame
2021-06-21 02:01:21	Gustavo6046	although I managed to configure alt-tab
2021-06-21 02:01:22	@Bocaneri	Might want to ask in a Manjaor channel about that one. I'm running Kubuntu and have no trouble with ctrl-alt-f[n]
2021-06-21 02:01:30	Gustavo6046	and other stuff that honestly should always be in, or at least be opt-out
2021-06-21 02:01:39	Gustavo6046	Bocaneri: it always works, except during said lock-up
2021-06-21 02:01:49	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.172.237.95) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-21 02:01:49	Gustavo6046	I'm not sure whether the issue is in X or a total kernel lock-up.
2021-06-21 02:01:53	@Bocaneri	Oh, lock-up? :
2021-06-21 02:01:55	@Bocaneri	:\
2021-06-21 02:02:01	Gustavo6046	Yeah. I had to reboot earlier
2021-06-21 02:02:20	Gustavo6046	Seriously, you guys at kernel never thought about being a bit more preemptive with your task scheduling?
2021-06-21 02:02:42	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 02:02:48	<--	tekno (~tekno@111.235.90.188) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-21 02:03:10	@Bocaneri	We're not directly involved with the kernel.
2021-06-21 02:03:31	Gustavo6046	well, not "you guys" as in you and others in #linux specifically
2021-06-21 02:04:35	Gustavo6046	Now I'm very afraid of running RoN
2021-06-21 02:04:47	Gustavo6046	but at the same time I kinda really wanna try it out, it's been such a while since I last played the game
2021-06-21 02:04:53	Gustavo6046	and I was wondering if Wine runs it better nwo too
2021-06-21 02:05:01	Gustavo6046	And besides, what if it was a fluke?
2021-06-21 02:05:06	Gustavo6046	Wish me luck
2021-06-21 02:06:22	@Bocaneri	Luck!
2021-06-21 02:06:34	<--	kollinz (~morpheus@user/kollinz) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-21 02:06:58	-->	ananke (~ananke@user/ananke) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:07:41	@jim	Bocaneri, thanks for the op when services went down...
2021-06-21 02:07:50	--	thunfisch_ is now known as thunfisch
2021-06-21 02:07:56	 *	mlu looks at jim
2021-06-21 02:08:03	@Bocaneri	You're welcome. Call it a precaution.
2021-06-21 02:08:08	-->	blahboybaz (~blahboyba@c-67-183-225-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:08:18	 *	jim looks at jim too
2021-06-21 02:08:25	@jim	what are we lookin at?
2021-06-21 02:08:43	blahboybaz	Is there any way to see what application tried to access a private key on one of my machines?
2021-06-21 02:09:21	@jim	well not unless the apps involved log such
2021-06-21 02:10:14	mlu	blahboybaz: tried to or is accessing?
2021-06-21 02:10:20	blahboybaz	ioenssh doesn't keep track of it - or some other part of my system? maybe syslog or something?
2021-06-21 02:10:30	moo	if you use split-gpg on qubes, sure =D
2021-06-21 02:10:30	mlu	blahboybaz: tried to -- you'll need a log, but is accessing: lsof
2021-06-21 02:10:30	<--	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-21 02:10:51	@jim	are you looking for something specific?
2021-06-21 02:11:06	mlu	if it's sensitive enough that you need to worry about "tried to", you really should get a HSM
2021-06-21 02:11:07	blahboybaz	After installing a (seemingly) benigh extension for an application I use I got a system prompt for my password for the private key. I closed the alert window and uninstalled it. The message in the alert box was "an application is trying to access your private key" or something close to that
2021-06-21 02:11:09	 *	loganlee is installing the suspect deb file on his vm machine... still going
2021-06-21 02:11:36	blahboybaz	just want to know
2021-06-21 02:11:40	loganlee	it's taking ages to unpack
2021-06-21 02:11:46	@Bocaneri	What's the application?
2021-06-21 02:11:58	loganlee	it's a word processor from korea
2021-06-21 02:12:03	--	akaWolf1 is now known as akaWolf
2021-06-21 02:12:15	mlu	blahboybaz: ah, you encrypted it: should be alright -- you'll know because you need to provide the password to the private key for any app that needs it
2021-06-21 02:12:20	@Bocaneri	loganlee, if that is what I think it is, it belongs in another channel.
2021-06-21 02:12:24	blahboybaz	just want to see what system information details there may be about the event
2021-06-21 02:12:28	twainwek	DLange: thanks
2021-06-21 02:12:34	loganlee	Bocaneri: sure
2021-06-21 02:12:41	@Bocaneri	blahboybaz, what's the applications?
2021-06-21 02:13:07	blahboybaz	mlu: well that's the strange thing.. any keys I have on the maching are for it to access other outside machines (like 3rd party)
2021-06-21 02:13:27	twainwek	btw how is usb-c hub support in linux
2021-06-21 02:13:53	mlu	blahboybaz: I hope you generated those yourself?
2021-06-21 02:14:04	blahboybaz	vscode this extension https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=howardzuo.vscode-git-tags&ssr=false#review-details   the system dialogue opened immediately after installing the extension
2021-06-21 02:14:18	mlu	blahboybaz: the 3rd parties just need your public key to check the signatures you do with a private key
2021-06-21 02:14:23	twainwek	i'm looking at this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FX2LW35 and it claims to support linux kernel 2.6+
2021-06-21 02:14:33	blahboybaz	it said private key (not public)
2021-06-21 02:15:11	mlu	blahboybaz: ah yeah, that's because git repos are usually accessed via PKI
2021-06-21 02:15:19	mlu	** authenticated via PKI
2021-06-21 02:15:22	blahboybaz	now I know I get that dialogue when accessing services for which I have the keys (gitlab for instance) but I usually have to do something to initiate that
2021-06-21 02:15:27	-->	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:15:37	mlu	blahboybaz: ssh-agent
2021-06-21 02:15:41	<--	Nact (~l@host-85-27-124-131.dynamic.voo.be) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-21 02:16:00	mlu	blahboybaz: you need to make a query to use a key, and this really depends on what's implenting the SSH agent
2021-06-21 02:16:13	mlu	there's usually some keychain app you're using that does that
2021-06-21 02:16:23	-->	gianf (~gianf@168.91.221.90) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:16:24	mlu	whichever one you use, make sure you trust it
2021-06-21 02:16:33	schillingklaus	ssh-agent 007, with the license to kill -9
2021-06-21 02:16:40	e1	twainwek, iirc kernel 2.6 introduced something to do wtih display link 2.0 so I believe that hub should run fine
2021-06-21 02:16:56	mlu	schillingklaus: I usually don't give mines that license
2021-06-21 02:17:08	mlu	and I keep the cards close and sometimes kill -9 it
2021-06-21 02:17:13	 *	mlu is the root mwahahaha
2021-06-21 02:17:15	e1	I think the claim that it supports 2.6+ is merely a reference to it's displaylink as opposed to the actual usb hub part, which is totally fine on a nix desktop afaik
2021-06-21 02:17:23	-->	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 02:18:07	loganlee	i can't find social channel for #linux
2021-06-21 02:18:17	@Bocaneri	loganlee, #linux-offtopic.
2021-06-21 02:18:18	mlu	is there a social channel?
2021-06-21 02:18:21	@gry	yes
2021-06-21 02:18:22	loganlee	ok thanks
2021-06-21 02:18:24	--	Mode #linux [-o gry] by gry
2021-06-21 02:18:31	Gustavo6046	Okay guys
2021-06-21 02:18:35	Gustavo6046	I discovered three things
2021-06-21 02:18:52	-->	Ducki (~ducki@user/ducki) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:18:59	Gustavo6046	1. The game causes the system to lockup precisely when I try to alt-tab from it, preventing all regular input.
2021-06-21 02:19:23	mlu	how's the cooling on the s ystem?
2021-06-21 02:19:24	Gustavo6046	2. With sysrq magic keys enabled in sysctl configuration, those and ONLY those still work when said lockup happens.
2021-06-21 02:19:25	<--	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 02:20:07	schillingklaus	and 3. ?
2021-06-21 02:20:18	Gustavo6046	3. My HDD is all beat up and sometimes it makes weird scary noises, and I have to give a not-exactly-gentle tap to the side of the laptop near where it is a few times till it stops acting up. :/
2021-06-21 02:20:24	Gustavo6046	Another thing I found is that, in htop, a lot of tasks will appear at the top with state D (which means uninterruptible threads, which basically means the task is waiting on I/O) if I sort by state.
2021-06-21 02:20:28	Gustavo6046	But sometimes that sorts itself out even without taps.
2021-06-21 02:20:30	Gustavo6046	schillingklaus: I already said 3. right after one of e1's later (latest?) messages.
2021-06-21 02:20:43	<--	gianf (~gianf@168.91.221.90) has quit (Quit: gianf)
2021-06-21 02:20:48	-->	Iamthehuman (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:21:16	Gustavo6046	Seriously, though. Why would alt-tabbing from a fullscreen Wine program ever cause the system to lock up, so consistently, so dramatically? It's not even a fluke, I managed to make it happen twice.
2021-06-21 02:21:20	Gustavo6046	At this point I'll just Xephyr the thing away lmao.
2021-06-21 02:21:20	<--	blahboybaz (~blahboyba@c-67-183-225-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-06-21 02:22:04	-->	glouniche (~glouniche@45.9.249.35) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 02:23:15	schillingklaus	just blame it all on Poettering, can't be off by too much
2021-06-21 02:23:19	e1	Gustavo6046, what i do
2021-06-21 02:23:34	e1	it was all a1's fault i swear
2021-06-21 02:23:49	blahboybaz	Soffy vscode actually froze and was acting stranely and I had to shut it down.
2021-06-21 02:24:05	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:24:32	e1	ohhh Gustavo6046 your IRC client must be super laggy if you think you sent your message right after my afforementioned latest (latest?) message :(
2021-06-21 02:24:35	Gustavo6046	And why did sysctl not even care about the file I wrote, /etc/sysctl.d/99-sysrq, and set it to 16 anyway...
2021-06-21 02:25:07	Gustavo6046	e1: what, no! I just had to use that message of yours as a point of reference. My third thing I listed came sometime after your message about some claim or something.
2021-06-21 02:25:11	<--	pnbeast (~pnbeast@2601:140:4200:fa20::1) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2021-06-21 02:25:14	Gustavo6046	03:17 e1 I think the claim that it supports 2.6+ is merely a reference to it's displaylink as opposed to the actual usb hub part, which is totally fine on a nix desktop afaik
2021-06-21 02:25:16	Gustavo6046	03:17 --> v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:25:18	Gustavo6046	03:17 Gustavo6046 3. My HDD is all beat up and sometimes it makes weird scary noises, and I have to give a not-exactly-gentle tap to the side of the laptop near where it is a few times till it stops acting up. :/
2021-06-21 02:25:44	e1	You're lagging, I sent that four minutes before you received it
2021-06-21 02:25:58	Gustavo6046	I ran that client in a text TTY before I even logged in the display manager.
2021-06-21 02:26:01	Gustavo6046	I mean
2021-06-21 02:26:07	Gustavo6046	the IRC client there, although I quit it there and started it on X here now
2021-06-21 02:26:10	Gustavo6046	I use localhost znc.
2021-06-21 02:26:19	@Bocaneri	Yeah, and let's try to use a pastebin for stuff like that.
2021-06-21 02:26:34	<--	fedenix (~fedenix@gateway/tor-sasl/fedenix) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 02:26:34	<--	phrost (~JFEIDAX@gateway/tor-sasl/phrost) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 02:26:48	-->	phrost (~JFEIDAX@gateway/tor-sasl/phrost) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:26:54	-->	fedenix (~fedenix@gateway/tor-sasl/fedenix) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:27:02	Gustavo6046	Bocaneri: oh, okay. I usually do for big hunks of text, but that didn't really click when I pasted in that instance for some reason. Oops.
2021-06-21 02:27:06	Gustavo6046	My bad.
2021-06-21 02:27:19	@Bocaneri	Yup. Oops!
2021-06-21 02:27:38	Gustavo6046	Anyway, okay, I'mma be a good soldier and hop into the Xephyr. I'm scared of the game locking up the system again, even though it was most likely an X issue (or otherwise related to alt-tabbing), but I already got it in Xephyr, which wraps around X, and doesn't have alt-tab in itself. And I sysctl-set kernel.sysrq to 1 (aka allow). Wish me luck.
2021-06-21 02:27:46	Gustavo6046	Ooh
2021-06-21 02:27:50	@Bocaneri	(this message brought to you by the ass who once accidently dumped a /list into a channel)
2021-06-21 02:27:51	Gustavo6046	I can alt-tab without my system exploding
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2021-06-21 02:27:52	Gustavo6046	Hooray!
2021-06-21 02:28:01	-->	KnoP (~KnoP@p57b1920f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:28:05	Gustavo6046	I mean in the game. Don't take that out of context.
2021-06-21 02:28:17	Gustavo6046	Ack I'm so relieved I don't have to friggin' reboot now
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2021-06-21 02:28:44	blahboyb1z	dam laptop freezes all the time and I end up stuck shutting it down with the power key cause there nothing else I can do. It's brand new I've only had it a few mos
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2021-06-21 02:29:18	Gustavo6046	It's an unusually delightful breeze of fresh air, at last not poised by whatever shenanigans do happen when that game causes the system to go haywire over a simple active window switch.
2021-06-21 02:29:36	Gustavo6046	I'll do the Boadicea campaign. Wish me luck.
2021-06-21 02:30:00	Gustavo6046	https://i.imgur.com/VtlEUwl.jpg
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2021-06-21 02:30:22	Gustavo6046	Mmmmm, MSXML. Grungy.
2021-06-21 02:31:07	[[R]]	Bocaneri: i'll paste your bin...
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2021-06-21 02:31:41	Gustavo6046	Sorry, I'll... I realize I am getting a bit off-topic at this point. I may digress for now.
2021-06-21 02:31:59	@Bocaneri	[R], you want nothing to do with the bin I store my "paste" in, I promise.
2021-06-21 02:32:07	Gustavo6046	I'll let ya know if stuff starts to go above $(kernel-load-pipe-safety-limit-rating) PSI.
2021-06-21 02:33:15	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-21 02:33:17	[[R]]	did you blow up the toilet?
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2021-06-21 02:33:36	Gustavo6046	Hmph. Stuck loading scenario forever.    Oh wait, patience tubing does not count.
2021-06-21 02:33:44	@Bocaneri	No, but I AM going to have to install a new seat.
2021-06-21 02:33:46	Gustavo6046	(for the psi thing, as in pressure, not Ness's cool new moves)
2021-06-21 02:34:03	[[R]]	i saw a thing a while ago, that someone called the cops at a store when soemoen went into the bathroom and said they were going to blow up the toilet
2021-06-21 02:34:14	Gustavo6046	Lol
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2021-06-21 02:34:21	@Bocaneri	Gustavo6046, you might want to monitor IO.
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2021-06-21 02:34:39	Gustavo6046	hmm, what is state R? it's not state D, but also not the usual S.
2021-06-21 02:34:44	Gustavo6046	It's what RoN is in right now.
2021-06-21 02:35:04	Gustavo6046	Oh, it means running.
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2021-06-21 02:35:33	Gustavo6046	I mean, questionable, but okay.
2021-06-21 02:35:40	Gustavo6046	Did I cpupower performance? Yeah I did.
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2021-06-21 02:35:58	 *	Gustavo6046 is doing cool general tactician stuff.... except less cool, and with his sytem. Grumpf.
2021-06-21 02:36:04	Gustavo6046	system*
2021-06-21 02:36:08	Gustavo6046	tactician general*?
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2021-06-21 02:36:29	blahboyb1z	Yeah its that extension but I don't know why it needs to access a private key and it doesn't say anything about it in the documentation about the extension
2021-06-21 02:37:00	blahboyb1z	Its an extension that manages git tags not related to remote access or anything so I don't see why it would need anything to do with ssh
2021-06-21 02:37:39	Gustavo6046	Also, that tutorial campaign, I was gonna do it for tests only. I know how to play Rise of Nations. I used to have fun with the game back when I used Windows.
2021-06-21 02:38:02	Gustavo6046	Ah, things were so much simpler back then ... well, most things ... I think I prefer the status quo right now, but still.
2021-06-21 02:38:30	Gustavo6046	Fun memories. Although many of my Windows memories are not fond, even today. I'm kinda glad I use Linux.
2021-06-21 02:38:55	Gustavo6046	Still serious about that thing where I said that next silly system hiccup I'd switch to OpenBSD. though. This IS a threat.
2021-06-21 02:39:07	@Bocaneri	Using Linux instead of Windows has its upsides and its downsides.
2021-06-21 02:39:08	<--	MerchantOfVenice (~patrick@user/merchantofvenice) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-21 02:39:20	Gustavo6046	Yes, for sure, and that holds true for any system.
2021-06-21 02:39:36	Gustavo6046	For instance, BSDs usually don't have that much software support. Except maaybe FreeBSD, which even has a Linux compatibility layer.
2021-06-21 02:40:21	@Bocaneri	FreeBSD can still be awfully picky about the hardware it'll run on.
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2021-06-21 02:40:54	mlu	I rather like FreeBSD: but yes, its userbase is smaller and the hardware support is narrower
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2021-06-21 02:41:17	[[R]]	Bocaneri: like the schwartz?
2021-06-21 02:41:23	mlu	but switching OSes isn't a good way to address hardware problems
2021-06-21 02:41:24	-->	gusto (~Augustus@109.255.100.54) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:41:26	@Bocaneri	The whatsit?
2021-06-21 02:42:03	@Bocaneri	That depends on the nature of the hardware problem. Some computers just won't run anything but Windows.
2021-06-21 02:42:16	-->	darutoko (~darutoko@92.125.60.150) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 02:42:34	[[R]]	Bocaneri: Each Schwartz has two sides. The upside and the downside.
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2021-06-21 02:43:33	Gustavo6046	Also
2021-06-21 02:43:44	Gustavo6046	I managed to fix the game resolution by setting the game to Windowed (Borderless) in settings. Hooray! \o/
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2021-06-21 02:44:53	mlu	I had an unstable machine once, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong for the longest time
2021-06-21 02:44:58	mlu	then I opened it up and realized the CPU fan was dead
2021-06-21 02:45:03	Protocol2	Big oof
2021-06-21 02:45:10	Gustavo6046	My system can keep itself cool, kinda
2021-06-21 02:45:25	<--	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@37.120.155.228) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 02:45:25	mlu	I didn't hear it because the PSU fan was still working
2021-06-21 02:45:26	Gustavo6046	I think the hard disk drive can be a real bottleneck sometimes, though.
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2021-06-21 02:45:51	Protocol2	What is an ok temperature for a cpu to be? My thinkpad gets up to 60 sometimes and I don't know if that's acceptable
2021-06-21 02:45:56	mlu	so, I spent $10, got a new HSF, and the stability issues went away
2021-06-21 02:46:01	Gustavo6046	And my GPUs are from 2012, which automatically means that they're old as fridgefrost from the point of view of 9 out of 10 ~~dentists~~ programs.
2021-06-21 02:46:08	mlu	was surprised that the box worked for up to 30min before segfaulting
2021-06-21 02:46:11	Gustavo6046	With GPUs I mean the iGPU and dGPU.
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2021-06-21 02:46:30	Gustavo6046	And with 2012 I mean at best as new as 2012, since that's the year of this laptop model. They may be from 2010.
2021-06-21 02:46:43	[[R]]	Protocol2: 60 is fine
2021-06-21 02:46:59	Gustavo6046	60 is not very old nowadays, mister orrr.
2021-06-21 02:47:07	Gustavo6046	[[Did I pronounce it correctly?]]
2021-06-21 02:48:44	@jim	hey, that looks like my macro calls ;)
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2021-06-21 02:50:03	Gustavo6046	Macro?
2021-06-21 02:50:11	Gustavo6046	You mean like... m4?... o.o
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2021-06-21 02:50:18	 *	Gustavo6046 gargles and gasps
2021-06-21 02:50:26	Gustavo6046	OOOH!
2021-06-21 02:50:28	Gustavo6046	The game is gonna start!
2021-06-21 02:50:31	<--	gnoo (~gnoo@user/gnoo) has left #linux (Bye!)
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2021-06-21 02:50:38	Gustavo6046	Ouch, 1 FPS
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2021-06-21 02:51:01	Gustavo6046	I wonder if it's because I run it in Xephyr or what. https://i.imgur.com/zQj9knC.jpg
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2021-06-21 02:51:32	Gustavo6046	Also, I remember it would have some pretty buggy and flickery terrain, because of the many backbuffers it used, or something. Or maybe it was just VSync, which I turned off in advance anyway.
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2021-06-21 02:52:48	Gustavo6046	That isn't happening now. Yay Wine!
2021-06-21 02:53:02	Gustavo6046	With "I rememeber" I mean a previous attempt at running it with Wine
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2021-06-21 03:00:05	-->	Protocol2 (~oscar@145.15.244.231) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 03:00:25	Protocol2	Just out of curiousity where can i check the channel mode?
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2021-06-21 03:00:51	-->	MerchantOfVenice (~patrick@user/merchantofvenice) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 03:00:59	Cork	Protocol2: /mode #linux
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2021-06-21 03:01:41	Protocol2	Aight thank you. I am pretty new to IRC and I'm still getting used to it. Not that I know what +Ccnpt means but I'll figure it out.
2021-06-21 03:01:48	-->	Rubyn (~Rubyn@user/rubyn) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 03:02:17	mlu	differse by the IRCd
2021-06-21 03:02:38	mlu	each letter stands for something, but n = no outside messages, t = topic can be changed by ops only
2021-06-21 03:02:49	<--	pepee (~user@user/pepee) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-21 03:04:05	mlu	https://github.com/freenode/ircd-seven/blob/master/help/opers/cmode -- describes all of them
2021-06-21 03:04:52	mlu	C = no CTCP, c = no colors, p = "private"
2021-06-21 03:05:17	ThinkT510	another page: https://libera.chat/guides/channelmodes
2021-06-21 03:05:32	<--	BarnabasDK (~BarnabasD@92.246.16.215) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-21 03:05:36	hexnewbie	https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum/blob/main/help/opers/cmode
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2021-06-21 03:10:13	o	/quote help CMODE
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2021-06-21 03:13:02	sord937	out of curiosity, what creates/mounts the /run directory, is it systemd?
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2021-06-21 03:15:07	KillerWasp	https://web.archive.org/web/20131006232336/http://vba.ngemu.com:80/
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2021-06-21 03:16:50	KillerWasp	https://web.archive.org/web/20130707214155/http://vba.ngemu.com/
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2021-06-21 03:19:15	KillerWasp	they fork to vbam and lost all the best features... :(
2021-06-21 03:19:16	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-21 03:23:05	loganlee	hi
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2021-06-21 03:25:06	g1n	hi loganlee
2021-06-21 03:25:41	loganlee	hey
2021-06-21 03:26:12	Protocol2	hi
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2021-06-21 03:46:45	Gustavo6046	ack I think the game froze
2021-06-21 03:46:48	Gustavo6046	and I couldn't save ;-;
2021-06-21 03:46:53	Gustavo6046	but I was doing really well
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2021-06-21 03:46:57	Gustavo6046	I was the only one on the last age of the game
2021-06-21 03:47:45	Gustavo6046	and was about to crush my enemy from an army that had, at first was like 3 troops, but quickly raised to 60 with the power of multiple military buildings, powerful resources, socialism, and the Lakotan bonuses.
2021-06-21 03:47:54	Gustavo6046	And especially the multiple military buldings thing.
2021-06-21 03:48:10	prasaddash12	What Is the game by the way?
2021-06-21 03:48:23	Gustavo6046	But I digress. I guess the game freezing was its way of telling me "it's 4:48 AM, go the heck to sleep".
2021-06-21 03:48:30	Gustavo6046	prasaddash12: it's Rise of Nations
2021-06-21 03:48:35	Gustavo6046	in this case it's Extended Edition
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2021-06-21 03:49:20	Gustavo6046	RoN barely works on Wine but somehow this one did work.
2021-06-21 03:49:30	Gustavo6046	I just had to shove it in Xephyr so it wouldn't stall my whole system whenever I tried to alt-tab out.
2021-06-21 03:49:43	Gustavo6046	Oh, and single-digit FPS. Usually less frames per second than a cat has tits.
2021-06-21 03:49:51	Gustavo6046	Anyway, I'mma be off to bed.
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2021-06-21 03:50:13	prasaddash12	I have never used WINE.
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2021-06-21 03:50:38	Gustavo6046	When you do, make sure you just sip it, and don't down it all at once :)
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2021-06-21 03:51:48	prasaddash12	I think I will never use it.I play small games on linux.
2021-06-21 03:52:10	prasaddash12	I will try to Gustavo6046
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2021-06-21 03:52:17	Gustavo6046	Hmm, okay
2021-06-21 03:52:19	Gustavo6046	With which game?
2021-06-21 03:52:27	Gustavo6046	RoN is a bastard to get up and running on Linux
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2021-06-21 03:52:58	loganlee	i just stick with civ 6
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2021-06-21 03:53:01	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-06-21 03:53:05	Gustavo6046	I like my strategy real time
2021-06-21 03:53:06	loganlee	it has linux version from steam
2021-06-21 03:53:13	loganlee	i see Gustavo6046
2021-06-21 03:53:16	prasaddash12	project IGI I think.Anyway I am not connected to the games world.
2021-06-21 03:53:20	Gustavo6046	just like in Doom, I get to reload the super shotgun in real time!
2021-06-21 03:53:24	Gustavo6046	Doom 2*
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2021-06-21 03:55:15	loganlee	civ 6 is super complex
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2021-06-21 03:56:01	Gustavo6046	anyway
2021-06-21 03:56:04	Gustavo6046	I got to bed now
2021-06-21 03:56:06	Gustavo6046	cya!
2021-06-21 03:56:12	loganlee	ok bye
2021-06-21 03:56:15	Gustavo6046	<3
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2021-06-21 04:13:25	hkm	hi
2021-06-21 04:13:51	wigums	hi
2021-06-21 04:14:55	hkm	Is there a better way to truncate files without doing `> $file` and instead doing `[ -f $file] && rm $file; touch $file`? shellcheck doesn't like `> $file` :)
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2021-06-21 04:15:18	spyroboy	echo -n > $file
2021-06-21 04:15:25	hkm	genius
2021-06-21 04:15:34	hkm	i feel stupid now thanks :)
2021-06-21 04:15:58	spyroboy	that's what the internet is for :)
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2021-06-21 04:18:14	curdlesnoot	hkm: it's just a warning, and can be ignored. if you feel the need to satisfy it, use true as a no-op, as it says e.g. : >"$file". the actual bug was your lack of quoting.
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2021-06-21 04:18:49	hkm	curdlesnoot no I always quote, I just didn't bother quoting when giving the example
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2021-06-21 04:19:01	curdlesnoot	that is, SC2086 is a bug but SC2188 is just syle lecturing
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2021-06-21 04:19:29	hkm	Oh i see, what does this mean: "Move to its command (or use 'true' as no-op)"
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2021-06-21 04:19:47	curdlesnoot	if you click on the SC2188 link, the author explains his rationale
2021-06-21 04:20:03	curdlesnoot	and : is a synonym of the true command
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2021-06-21 04:20:36	curdlesnoot	the premise is that a standalone redirection might have been unintended
2021-06-21 04:20:55	hkm	cool I understand thank you
2021-06-21 04:21:06	hkm	It is just a style correction, right?
2021-06-21 04:21:20	curdlesnoot	yes
2021-06-21 04:22:17	hkm	I get this funny error as well, not sure why: editor="$EDITOR" ^-----^ SC2153: Possible misspelling: EDITOR may not be assigned, but editor is.
2021-06-21 04:22:18	curdlesnoot	it's in the "style" severity
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2021-06-21 04:24:33	curdlesnoot	it's a false positive, in your case. that said, if you don't proceed to manipulate the value of editor, you could just reference EDITOR directly.
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2021-06-21 04:25:50	hkm	This is the line that follows: `[ -z "$EDITOR" ] && editor="vim"`
2021-06-21 04:26:28	hkm	curdlesnoot
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2021-06-21 04:27:26	curdlesnoot	yeah, ok. I'd just replace both of those lines with editor=${EDITOR:-vim}, which should also make shellcheck happy.
2021-06-21 04:28:03	curdlesnoot	it's smart, but not smart enough to infer the connection between the two lines you currently have.
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2021-06-21 04:29:40	hkm	thanks man
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2021-06-21 04:32:40	hkm	How can I get the following to match all positive numbers: ` echo 10 | grep -w '([0-9]+)'`
2021-06-21 04:33:20	hkm	I forgot how to use regex  :/
2021-06-21 04:33:24	curdlesnoot	given just "10" as an input, anchoring the patter with ^ and $ would do
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2021-06-21 04:34:24	hkm	`'^([0-9]+)$'` doesn't do it
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2021-06-21 04:34:41	loganlee	what are you matching again?
2021-06-21 04:34:51	hkm	all positive numbers loganlee
2021-06-21 04:35:02	curdlesnoot	well, you also wrote an ERE, so it needs to be grep -E in that case
2021-06-21 04:35:12	hkm	ah let me try again
2021-06-21 04:35:27	hkm	got it curdlesnoot thanks a lot!
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2021-06-21 04:35:31	curdlesnoot	to start with the simplest thing that should work, try: grep -E '^[0-9]+$'
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2021-06-21 04:36:52	hkm	Yep got it, no shellcheck errors anymore either :)
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2021-06-21 04:38:26	bindi	I added a firewall rule in pfSense to allow <hetzner host> any port to WAN net any port, still not going through to me
2021-06-21 04:38:36	bindi	and UDP ofc
2021-06-21 04:38:43	bindi	and pfsense doesnt log them blocked anymore either
2021-06-21 04:38:52	hkm	curdlesnoot is it necessary to error check coreutils such as doing `printf lol || exit | cut -b 3 || exit` instead of `printf lol | cut -b 3`?
2021-06-21 04:39:56	curdlesnoot	hkm: the syntax isn't right, though I can see what you're driving at. I don't think it's worth it for utilities such as printf and cut.
2021-06-21 04:40:11	curdlesnoot	hkm: incidentally, some of these things can be done in bash, if that's what you happen to be using.
2021-06-21 04:40:22	hkm	oh ok Im writing in POSIX sh
2021-06-21 04:40:25	curdlesnoot	ah
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2021-06-21 04:40:40	curdlesnoot	in any case, I wouldn't bother for that particular example
2021-06-21 04:40:46	hkm	I think you're talking about bash -e right?
2021-06-21 04:41:19	hkm	i forgot what the flag that exited on error
2021-06-21 04:41:20	curdlesnoot	no, because I'm in the camp that doesn't recommend errexit as a crutch. bash's pipefail is sometimes useful, but is should be used with some forethought.
2021-06-21 04:41:38	curdlesnoot	errexit is also a posix thing, btw
2021-06-21 04:42:06	hkm	oh is it supported for sh as well?
2021-06-21 04:42:11	curdlesnoot	it is
2021-06-21 04:42:41	hkm	but you wouldn't recommend it in production scripts, right?
2021-06-21 04:42:42	curdlesnoot	I still don't recommend it except for scripts that resemble dumb batch jobs
2021-06-21 04:42:47	hkm	ok
2021-06-21 04:42:51	hkm	got it thanks :)
2021-06-21 04:42:51	curdlesnoot	that's right. I generally wouldn't.
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2021-06-21 04:43:16	curdlesnoot	it's not an easy thing to explain why, but it can be just as effective as introducing bugs as acting as a poor man's exception mechanism.
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2021-06-21 04:43:33	hkm	appreciate the help curdlesnoot I'm going to write a README for the script now :)
2021-06-21 04:43:47	curdlesnoot	consider the things that might resonably fail, and handle those.
2021-06-21 04:44:12	curdlesnoot	not only fail but which would seriously compromise the behaviour of the script, I should add.
2021-06-21 04:44:19	hkm	I never witnessed coreutils fail in my short Linux journey
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2021-06-21 04:46:25	curdlesnoot	if cut were to fail, you'd likely end up with an empty output stream. a cheap defense against expanding empty variables is ${var:?}, if it matters.
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2021-06-21 04:47:27	hkm	I'm unfamiliar with that syntax but I guess it's time to learn
2021-06-21 04:48:03	curdlesnoot	it's not something I would reach for often but it has its uses
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2021-06-21 04:48:36	hkm	Appreciate it curdlesnoot, I got to go, see you later
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2021-06-21 05:20:50	prasaddash12	Anybody from archlinux here? I can not join archlinux.
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2021-06-21 05:29:53	Kyv	prasaddash12: what is stopping you?
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2021-06-21 05:32:57	Kyv	prasaddash12: it is open only to registered users.
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2021-06-21 05:45:18	HumbleGuy	generally what is the best way to udpate drivers? i want to update my gpu drivers for my laptop Satellite C660-1LD
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2021-06-21 05:46:52	gry	how did you install these drivers?
2021-06-21 05:47:04	omegatron	if you are using some ditribution, you might use the built-in update functionality via system settings for example (if there is such a thing) - or use the local package manager directly in a terminal
2021-06-21 05:47:04	HumbleGuy	gry, i didn't
2021-06-21 05:47:20	omegatron	dpkg, apt-get, or whatever ..
2021-06-21 05:47:43	Kyv	Ideally you would use the drivers available through your repositories.
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2021-06-21 05:48:29	Samian	I did apt list --installed, and it shows I have nvidia-driver-460,  nvidia-driver-455, and nvidia-driver-450
2021-06-21 05:48:32	HumbleGuy	i dont know, i feel like my gpu drivers aren't properly isntalled
2021-06-21 05:48:36	Samian	how can I remove 460 and activate 455 as the driver to use?
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2021-06-21 05:49:26	gry	HumbleGuy: what linux distribution are you using?
2021-06-21 05:50:01	HumbleGuy	gry, i am using gentoo
2021-06-21 05:50:12	gry	HumbleGuy: could you please pastebin output of "lspci -vmmnn"?
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2021-06-21 05:50:58	HumbleGuy	gry, http://dpaste.com/8B7S3QJNJ
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2021-06-21 05:52:22	gry	HumbleGuy: is it cpu integrated?
2021-06-21 05:52:30	HumbleGuy	gry, yes
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2021-06-21 05:55:05	gry	HumbleGuy: https://h-node.org/videocards/view/en/302/Intel-Corporation-Core-Processor-Integrated-Graphics-Controller--rev-02- suggests this videocard works with 'i915' driver. is it available in gentoo?
2021-06-21 05:55:42	TJ-	i915 is part of the kernel
2021-06-21 05:56:37	HumbleGuy	gry, are you talking about kernel module i915? yes i enabled it
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2021-06-21 05:57:16	gry	HumbleGuy: this should be it, perhaps? does 'glxinfo' work ok?
2021-06-21 05:58:14	HumbleGuy	gry, yes i get output
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2021-06-21 05:59:07	gry	HumbleGuy: what is the issue, then?
2021-06-21 05:59:35	Kyv	A feelin'.
2021-06-21 05:59:40	HumbleGuy	very low performace, and screen tearing
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2021-06-21 06:00:02	HumbleGuy	compositor doesnt work
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2021-06-21 06:00:50	HumbleGuy	i mean i get errors when trying to run compositor
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2021-06-21 06:02:40	Kyv	HumbleGuy: the other day you said it was Intel GPU with these problems.
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2021-06-21 06:02:56	HumbleGuy	Kyv, well yes
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2021-06-21 06:04:23	HumbleGuy	Kyv, actually hold on, i dont see no more screen tearing
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2021-06-21 06:05:27	Kyv	If you are actually using nvidia and the proprietary driver then it's easy to fix your tearing.
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2021-06-21 06:06:05	Kyv	Without compositing, but rather ForceFullCompositionPipeline option.
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2021-06-21 06:06:42	Kyv	s/compositing/standalone compositor
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2021-06-21 06:07:11	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i dont use nvidia...
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2021-06-21 06:08:06	Kyv	Ah I got googley eyed and misread Sambian's question among yours.
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2021-06-21 06:08:29	HumbleGuy	anyways, why i get this? [ 06/21/2021 13:04:22.482 vsync_init ERROR ] No supported vsync method found for this backend
2021-06-21 06:08:33	HumbleGuy	is my gpu broken?
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2021-06-21 06:09:50	SkunkyLaptop	HumbleGuy: if your gpu was broken, you would get no video at all.
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2021-06-21 06:11:49	Kyv	HumbleGuy: do you have xf86-video-intel driver installed?
2021-06-21 06:12:07	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i dont know, how do i check
2021-06-21 06:12:50	Kyv	grep on however you list installed packages
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2021-06-21 06:13:35	Kyv	qlist -IC for Gentoo
2021-06-21 06:13:59	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i got this x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel-2.99.917_p20201215
2021-06-21 06:14:54	HumbleGuy	yes its installed then
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2021-06-21 06:15:50	HumbleGuy	then all i got to say i have a crappy gpu
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2021-06-21 06:18:07	curdlesnoot	or a bad implementation of a compositor, perhaps
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2021-06-21 06:20:49	Kyv	HumbleGuy: the xf86-video-intel driver is known to cause issues on some systems
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2021-06-21 06:21:29	HumbleGuy	ok i'll disable it and then see
2021-06-21 06:22:42	curdlesnoot	what did glxinfo report, anyway?
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2021-06-21 06:22:59	Kyv	curdlesnoot: it is effectively the only standalone compositor there is
2021-06-21 06:23:33	Kyv	re: picom
2021-06-21 06:23:53	curdlesnoot	doesn't mean it's good. in any case, does glxinfo at least confirm the use of an accelerated driver?
2021-06-21 06:24:39	HumbleGuy	curdlesnoot, glxinfo gives a very long output
2021-06-21 06:24:50	HumbleGuy	i am not sure how to dpaste it
2021-06-21 06:24:53	Kyv	What is "good"?
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2021-06-21 06:26:00	curdlesnoot	HumbleGuy: there's a sample command showing how to pastebin content that can be shown by entering the /topic command in your IRC client. but I'm really just interested in the "Device:" line at this point.
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2021-06-21 06:27:24	HumbleGuy	curdlesnoot, $ glxinfo -v | grep -i device
2021-06-21 06:27:24	HumbleGuy	    Device: llvmpipe (LLVM 11.1.0, 128 bits) (0xffffffff)
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2021-06-21 06:27:53	curdlesnoot	that's your problem.
2021-06-21 06:27:57	Samian	anyone know how to switch between graphics drivers from the command line?
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2021-06-21 06:28:21	curdlesnoot	HumbleGuy: small wonder that no vsync method is available. that's a 100% software-based OpenGL implementation.
2021-06-21 06:28:38	HumbleGuy	so that means?
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2021-06-21 06:29:41	curdlesnoot	HumbleGuy: that you're missing the driver, of the userspace parts aren't in agreement with the kernel driver, perhaps.
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2021-06-21 06:31:27	HumbleGuy	curdlesnoot, sso how do i enable it in kernel?
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2021-06-21 06:32:23	curdlesnoot	HumbleGuy: have you considered continuing this in #gentoo? you might get more useful responses.
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2021-06-21 06:33:15	curdlesnoot	in any case, some guidance can be found here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Intel
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2021-06-21 06:33:36	HumbleGuy	curdlesnoot, ok thanks for your guidance
2021-06-21 06:33:45	curdlesnoot	there's also "eselect opengl", if I recall correctly
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2021-06-21 06:34:39	curdlesnoot	once you get it right, the Device line will reference an Intel implementation
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2021-06-21 06:35:15	HumbleGuy	got it, thanks
2021-06-21 06:35:35	curdlesnoot	your compositor should also perform better by an order of magnitude
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2021-06-21 06:40:28	Camilo	does anyone know of some easy to use foss for entity relationship diagrams (ERDs)? I've been drawing my database designs in libreoffice draw but it's a lot harder than doing the same in microsoft visio.
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2021-06-21 06:43:48	spine-o-saurus	dia
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2021-06-21 06:50:41	clemens3	the Linux Standard Base seems to be really really bad.. linuxfoundation link is dead and not mentioned on its home page..
2021-06-21 06:50:47	clemens3	bad=dead
2021-06-21 06:50:47	gry	Camilo: https://packages.debian.org/buster/umbrello ?
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2021-06-21 07:20:05	cadmio	Hello
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2021-06-21 07:20:14	omegatron	does someone here work with the voikko library ?
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2021-06-21 07:20:15	cadmio	I need to reproduce this https://i.imgur.com/xVQoxGBl.png in html/css
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2021-06-21 07:40:29	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
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2021-06-21 07:42:43	ikonia	I'm using virsh / libvirt to define a network in dnsmasq, I want to make sure I've correctly setup dnsmasq to serve dhcp/dns resolution for the virtual network to the host (the host is using 127.0.0.1 as a resolver which is dnsmasq)
2021-06-21 07:43:27	ikonia	I've done a virsh net-dumpxml to view the network and it's pretty basic eg: it contains the virtual network, the domain name and the dhcp range
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2021-06-21 07:44:08	ikonia	however I'm unclear if I should define the domain futher in the dnsmasaq.conf or if I should add extra parameters to the virsh defined network to make that domain/ip range visable to the host
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2021-06-21 07:45:41	ikonia	as dnsmasq is the local resolver on the host, I'd expect to be able to do something like a host -t soa $test-domain and because dnsmasq is hosting that domain (it's a test domain called .local) it would return that value
2021-06-21 07:45:50	ikonia	however it's seen as a non-existant domain,
2021-06-21 07:46:04	fakuve	Dear Linux inhabitants, I got a question. I have had tendinitis for a month already, and although is getting better I still cannot use the keyboard properly. My right hand wrist is not feeling perfect and I cant take this anymore I think I need an ergonomic keyboard. Anyone suffered of tendinitis on the wrist? have you tried ergonomic keyboards? Moonlander?
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2021-06-21 07:46:41	ikonia	I suspect I'll need to update the dnsmasq.conf on the host to have the domain=/.local/ 127.0.0.1 type entry so the host knows to query itself
2021-06-21 07:46:45	fakuve	I think a little "natural" tilt in my wrist will help a lot
2021-06-21 07:46:47	ikonia	despite automatically querying itself
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2021-06-21 07:47:48	hodapp	fakuve: take a look at the Twiddler perhaps
2021-06-21 07:48:42	fakuve	hodapp: thanks , good idea
2021-06-21 07:49:13	fakuve	have you used it?
2021-06-21 07:49:31	hodapp	yeah, though I have been lax in learning to use it *well*
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2021-06-21 07:50:31	fakuve	Is a complete new system to understand
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2021-06-21 07:52:31	fakuve	but using keycombinations on a single handed keyboard is that even possible? like vim thing?
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2021-06-21 07:53:22	lacroix	ikonia: Does the same query work from a VM?
2021-06-21 07:53:51	hodapp	fakuve: yes, you can do this on Twiddler, though I don't know how comfortable it is to
2021-06-21 07:54:02	hodapp	it has modifier keys
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2021-06-21 07:54:18	ikonia	lacroix: it does - think I've just got it, it's the seperate dnsmasq instances for host/virtual network and the interfaces they listen on
2021-06-21 07:54:47	ikonia	I'll have to tell the host dnsmasq (which doesn't know about the libvirt running instance) to forward .local to the virtual nic/ip that the libvirt dnsmasq is running on
2021-06-21 07:55:08	ikonia	I'd not clicked they where totally seperate instances, I thought they where different configs/zones in the same instance
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2021-06-21 07:57:10	fakuve	hodapp: thanks
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2021-06-21 07:58:41	Dagmar	Oh no!  Say it isn't so!
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2021-06-21 08:01:20	fakuve	hodapp: 200 Dollars oh my days!!
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2021-06-21 08:06:20	fakuve	has anyone tried to type lying down with an ergonomic keyboard?
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2021-06-21 08:07:59	lacroix	ikonia, libvirt sets up its own little instance, so you have to get the request to that one somehow. Glad it's working
2021-06-21 08:09:27	Dagmar	ikonia: You might want to reconsider that plan.  .local is a TLD that's only valid for mDNS, not DNS.
2021-06-21 08:09:29	mlu	fakuve: it's non-ergonomic :)
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2021-06-21 08:09:53	Dagmar	THis is relevant because systemd-resolved will throw queries into the .local namespace into the trash
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2021-06-21 08:10:15	Psi-Jack	Yeah, .local is bad to use in /ANY/ other fasion.
2021-06-21 08:10:17	fakuve	mlu: everything typed using an ergonomyc keyboard should be ergonomic straightaway hehehm
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2021-06-21 08:20:43	lacroix	.local is mDNS yes.
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2021-06-21 08:22:16	lacroix	ideally you'd use a subdomain of some 'proper' domain
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2021-06-21 08:24:36	lacroix	cooking time, later all.
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2021-06-21 08:26:25	HumbleGuy	gpasswd: group 'lightdm' does not exist in /etc/group
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2021-06-21 08:27:42	[twisti]	i have something in a script that i dont know and have trouble googling. it looks like this: `find . <findoptions that i know> -exec bash -c '...' exec-sh {} + >somefile.txt
2021-06-21 08:27:58	[twisti]	whats this 'exec-sh' bit ?
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2021-06-21 08:28:08	immibis	that would be one of the arguments to bash
2021-06-21 08:28:18	curdlesnoot	the zeroeth argument given to the program being executed. bash, in this case.
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2021-06-21 08:28:32	curdlesnoot	it would show up as $0 in bash and in some of its error messages
2021-06-21 08:29:00	immibis	curdlesnoot: is it? I don't think there's a separate zeroth argument, but if there is, why isn't -c it?
2021-06-21 08:29:01	curdlesnoot	the arguments represented by {} + would be from $1 onwards and what your '...' code will be actually working with
2021-06-21 08:29:08	curdlesnoot	yes, it is.
2021-06-21 08:29:19	[twisti]	huh. so its basically an arbitrary string thats only used inside the '...' part ?
2021-06-21 08:30:06	[twisti]	because its not used there, but im guessing it was used there in the past
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2021-06-21 08:31:18	immibis	huh. it really is.
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2021-06-21 08:31:25	immibis	$ bash -c 'echo $0' foo bar baz
2021-06-21 08:31:25	immibis	foo
2021-06-21 08:31:29	curdlesnoot	it's explained right at the top of the bash man page.
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2021-06-21 08:31:48	[twisti]	thanks
2021-06-21 08:32:05	curdlesnoot	if you didn't provide it, one of your {} + arguments would be swallowed into oblivion, only to potentially reappear in a bash error message or such.
2021-06-21 08:32:24	selckin	$0 is the name of the program being run ./script it would be 'script' bash -c '' you have to pass something if you want to provide and use the rest of the args $1 etc
2021-06-21 08:32:35	curdlesnoot	exec-sh is a pretty sensible choice, as it makes the context crystal clear.
2021-06-21 08:33:02	curdlesnoot	bash would also make sense as it is, in fact, bash.
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2021-06-21 08:33:35	[twisti]	that does make sense. i dont think ive ever come across this before
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2021-06-21 08:34:15	curdlesnoot	there's more to this than bash. any program that executes another is in control of the argument vector, and the zeroeth element is somewhat special. in practice, this manifests as one program being able to control the apparent process name of another.
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2021-06-21 08:35:05	curdlesnoot	this is why, for example, relying on $0 to mean anything in a script can raise some eyebrows. the parent process is in charge.
2021-06-21 08:35:14	curdlesnoot	but it's not just applicable to bash.
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2021-06-21 08:36:36	curdlesnoot	whether find should expose this ability is another matter. it doesn't seem to be very useful in practice, but find's interface is what it is. it can't be changed now.
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2021-06-21 08:36:53	curdlesnoot	or bash -c for that matter.
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2021-06-21 08:37:27	selckin	find doesn't really have anything todo with it, its bash -c right
2021-06-21 08:37:35	curdlesnoot	yeah, right. wasn't thinking.
2021-06-21 08:38:22	helmut	hi. an automount keeps being prevented from idle umount. any ideas on how I can figure out which process keeps accessing it?
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2021-06-21 08:39:37	curdlesnoot	helmut: lsof +D /path or perhaps inotifywait if you want to catch it in the act (depending on the fs type)
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2021-06-21 08:41:58	helmut	curdlesnoot: lsof output is empty (as is fuser). it must be some temporary process or isolated syscall (e.g. statvfs)
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2021-06-21 08:42:14	helmut	curdlesnoot: does inotify really catch statvfs?
2021-06-21 08:42:31	curdlesnoot	no, I don't think it would.
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2021-06-21 08:43:02	helmut	I strongly suspect that what keeps the mount active is a frequent statvfs call (as I already ruled out another)
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2021-06-21 08:46:02	PlayerOne	Hey all ^^
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2021-06-21 08:46:38	PlayerOne	It seems, xdotool returns an internal Xterm window size without its window bar at the top
2021-06-21 08:47:10	PlayerOne	Is possible to tell xdotool to process the whole window including that bar?
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2021-06-21 08:49:00	PlayerOne	You may test it with: xterm & xpid=$!; sleep 2; wid="$(xdotool search --pid "$xpid")"; xdotool windowsize "$wid" 100 100;
2021-06-21 08:49:32	PlayerOne	Some might notice that 100x100 is its internal size, not including the window bar at the top
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2021-06-21 08:50:14	curdlesnoot	not by itself, as far as I know. only the window manager would know. look into xprop and _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS.
2021-06-21 08:50:31	PlayerOne	The main problem is to set that window at the center using xdotool
2021-06-21 08:50:46	PlayerOne	Knowing its actual dimensions would work, but...
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2021-06-21 08:50:58	PlayerOne	Different OSes have different top bars, so..
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2021-06-21 08:53:08	helmut	blktrace does not handle statvfs either
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2021-06-21 08:54:32	curdlesnoot	helmut: maybe you'll have to use auditd
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2021-06-21 08:59:01	--	Mode #linux [-o DLange] by DLange
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2021-06-21 09:00:37	hodapp	fakuve: yes, it's kind of a niche device and not exactly mass-market
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2021-06-21 09:01:32	fakuve	hodapp: I'm gonna check for a tenting keyboard
2021-06-21 09:01:43	fakuve	this moonlander or ergodox
2021-06-21 09:01:52	fakuve	they are even more expensive , but I have no choice
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2021-06-21 09:02:41	Kyv	Why has this ergodox thing come into public consciousness all the sudden?
2021-06-21 09:02:44	Kyv	Who is the shill?
2021-06-21 09:03:11	fakuve	Kyv: Well injuries probably
2021-06-21 09:03:31	fakuve	flat keyboards are putting strain on your wrist
2021-06-21 09:03:41	fakuve	I got injured and seem not be recovered , tendinitis
2021-06-21 09:03:46	mannu	just grow large arms that you can use for support
2021-06-21 09:04:05	hodapp	mannu: I'm a t-rex, you insensitive clod.
2021-06-21 09:04:08	Dagmar	...or stop resting your wrists on the desk.
2021-06-21 09:04:09	mannu	oh sorry
2021-06-21 09:04:30	fakuve	Anyone has tried this ergodox at all?
2021-06-21 09:04:34	xiaomiao	Dagmar: shoulder/neck pain instead? good choice ;)
2021-06-21 09:04:44	Kyv	fakuve: I haven't noticed any strain from keyboard use, but trackpads and mice on the other hand...
2021-06-21 09:04:50	Dagmar	xiaomiao: I've probably logged more hours typing than you've been alive.  Zero problems.
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2021-06-21 09:04:55	Kyv	I use the keyboard pretty exclusively.
2021-06-21 09:04:57	xiaomiao	(most workplaces aren't ergomomic, reducing the self-harm potential can be difficult)
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2021-06-21 09:05:06	mannu	reading about it
2021-06-21 09:05:08	mannu	"Typing at shoulder width allows you to keep your chest open"
2021-06-21 09:05:13	mannu	that leaves you vulnerable to physical attack
2021-06-21 09:05:18	Dagmar	Resting your wrists on the desk literally focuses the impact
2021-06-21 09:05:18	mannu	i'd never use that keyboard
2021-06-21 09:05:31	Dagmar	So if you're a soft, doughy blob of a human, you don't want to do that
2021-06-21 09:05:36	xiaomiao	Dagmar: if the desk were at the right height etc. ... but that's unlikely
2021-06-21 09:05:54	Dagmar	mannu: Good thinking.
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2021-06-21 09:06:04	@jim	who's gonna attack you when you're typing?
2021-06-21 09:06:04	mannu	thanks
2021-06-21 09:06:08	mannu	i dunno
2021-06-21 09:06:13	mannu	but better safe than sorry
2021-06-21 09:06:16	Dagmar	jim: Ninjas may strike at any time.
2021-06-21 09:06:23	mannu	lots of russians stalking about
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2021-06-21 09:06:28	Dagmar	...from anywher.
2021-06-21 09:06:30	mannu	yes
2021-06-21 09:06:39	@jim	russian ninjas?
2021-06-21 09:06:43	Dagmar	This is why your cat is so insistent on training you for total viligance.
2021-06-21 09:06:43	mannu	yes
2021-06-21 09:06:53	Dagmar	er vigilance.
2021-06-21 09:07:16	Dagmar	Tabbys want you to be prepared for when ninjas invariably attack.
2021-06-21 09:07:32	mannu	always practice your draw from holster when programming stuff
2021-06-21 09:07:41	fakuve	I dont know whether to buy one of these twinddles 3
2021-06-21 09:07:56	fakuve	and rest completely my right hand for a month
2021-06-21 09:08:07	StormsOfFury	When tf did pastebin require 12 character passwords?
2021-06-21 09:08:17	fakuve	or just buy one of these Ergodox and carry on typing with 2 hands
2021-06-21 09:08:44	Kyv	How much does one of those run?
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2021-06-21 09:09:44	@jim	StormsOfFury, some pastebins encrypt their content with a password supplied by whoever submitted the pastebin in the first place
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2021-06-21 09:10:41	StormsOfFury	i was just changing some passwords that were super old annnd i was like WTF mates..
2021-06-21 09:10:57	-->	Adoi (~Adoi@user/adoi) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 09:11:25	Dagmar	...and you were, what... Putting them into pastebin so you wouldn't lose them?
2021-06-21 09:11:33	 *	Dagmar looks slightly alarmed.
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2021-06-21 09:13:36	StormsOfFury	No... i was updating my pastebin password and they asked for 12 characters minimum...
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2021-06-21 09:14:22	Dagmar	Ah.. OKay,  Thank god
2021-06-21 09:14:40	Dagmar	Don't think for a minute there's people who _won't_ do that sort of thing
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2021-06-21 09:14:57	Dagmar	SOme of the things I have seen...
2021-06-21 09:15:12	Dagmar	It's almost suprising more IT people don't wind up on clock towers
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2021-06-21 09:18:23	helmut	curdlesnoot: the cause for my issue is systemd. every time its starts a service, it calls statvfs on any mounted filesystem.
2021-06-21 09:18:24	BluesKaj	Hi all
2021-06-21 09:18:46	@jim	hi
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2021-06-21 09:18:58	curdlesnoot	helmut: interesting. I had no idea.
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2021-06-21 09:19:42	helmut	curdlesnoot: me neither. just how do I prevent it. I tried isolating the mount point using unix permission, but obviously I cannot prevent root from accessing it that way
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2021-06-21 09:20:12	curdlesnoot	helmut: that's a good question. and why is it a problem to begin with, even.
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2021-06-21 09:20:46	helmut	curdlesnoot: statfs marks an automount as being used. it'll never get umounted when you set an idle=... timeout
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2021-06-21 09:21:14	curdlesnoot	aha
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2021-06-21 09:25:24	otisolsen70	How do I easily keep ownership/permissions correct on an NFS file share on which several users are accessing it and they do not share primary group? As I see it, I can have a cronjob run every minute running chown/chmod recursively on the folder. Or I can do something with inotify to set permissions/ownership correct everytime a new file is added. Are there any better ways?
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2021-06-21 09:27:26	geirha	for group ownership, you can use the setgid bit on the directory
2021-06-21 09:27:35	curdlesnoot	otisolsen70: if you can, try to have it so that all current directories have setgid and a group to which all users belong. that works fine as long as the umask is sensible for newly created content.
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2021-06-21 09:31:03	otisolsen70	curdlesnoot, I'll try that.
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2021-06-21 10:10:17	Guest18	What's holding Microsoft back from having Windows just be a Linux-based OS?
2021-06-21 10:11:11	Guest18	They would save so much money from development, and still profit from selling licenses
2021-06-21 10:11:46	micrex22	Guest18: because Bill Gates build the culture around where everything needs to be a *microsoft* solution
2021-06-21 10:11:52	Dagmar	The same thing that prevents us from merrily running their software under Linux.
2021-06-21 10:11:56	kfrench	Guest18: Compatibility and relying on someone else for your own product's direction.
2021-06-21 10:11:56	Dagmar	"WIndows software"
2021-06-21 10:11:56	micrex22	Linux is not a *microsoft* solution
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2021-06-21 10:12:39	Dagmar	...however, they're migrating their real moneymaker (Office) to HTML/JS/Electron and SAS, so that might start shifting very soon.
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2021-06-21 10:13:07	Dagmar	Frankly the web version of almost everything but Excel is more usable
2021-06-21 10:13:11	Guest18	Dagmar if you're talking about Office online.... that's year behind the desktop version
2021-06-21 10:13:22	Guest18	years*
2021-06-21 10:13:40	Guest18	Even Word has only like 10% of the features of the desktop version
2021-06-21 10:13:40	Dagmar	Guest7289: Yet the important bits like Teams and Outlook's native versions suck nozzle
2021-06-21 10:13:46	mannu	most people only uses bold, headers and maybe some alignment function anyway, right?
2021-06-21 10:13:57	Dagmar	Truth
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2021-06-21 10:14:14	Dagmar	It's a bit like believing Powerpoint somehow makes people more productive
2021-06-21 10:14:44	Dagmar	No, instead of putting together a coherent pressie they screw around with all the stupid accessory features and create a true eyesore
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2021-06-21 10:15:07	Guest18	I actually can't wait for Office online to have feature-parity with the Desktop version. I constantly have a VM with Windows open just to use Word for work
2021-06-21 10:15:12	Dagmar	...and I've been using Word jsut fine through the electron app
2021-06-21 10:15:21	Guest18	but again that's at least 5 years down the line
2021-06-21 10:15:27	Dagmar	We've got licences for all that and the only thing I've run into problems with is Excel
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2021-06-21 10:16:33	domhnall	Best PowerPoint presentations mainly use Text on slides and some type of MEME to convey the point. Nothing really fancy.
2021-06-21 10:17:14	domhnall	I used to be good at Excel, back in 2003.
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2021-06-21 10:17:32	Dagmar	..and to say the online version of word only has 10% of the features is just plain wrong.
2021-06-21 10:18:15	domhnall	silly question, but USB is a little endian bus, right?
2021-06-21 10:18:19	Guest18	Dagmar, believe me... I'm a power user of Word and I know
2021-06-21 10:18:38	Guest18	Also Electron... I think electron can only use 1 thread of the CPU? So the performance of any electron app is massively hindered compared to a desktop version
2021-06-21 10:18:46	Dagmar	I think you have a wildly inflated idea of the number of features involved.
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2021-06-21 10:19:48	Dagmar	...and apparently haven't really spent any time using the online versions to even know these things.
2021-06-21 10:20:34	domhnall	cannot seem to find the correct RFC to verify... but I believe it is.
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2021-06-21 10:20:46	Dagmar	I mean, it's a _word processor_.  It doesn't necessarily need heuristic scanning of input to ensure everyones types as if they were actually educated.
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2021-06-21 10:21:13	ychaouche	yo #linux
2021-06-21 10:21:15	Guest18	Dagmar, I use both daily, I'm an academic, that's why I know what I'm talking about. I fine-control documents for a living.
2021-06-21 10:21:38	Dagmar	In other words, you micromanage people's text files.
2021-06-21 10:21:41	Kyv	Now that is hysterical.
2021-06-21 10:21:58	Dagmar	You might want to consider that perhaps the content is more important
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2021-06-21 10:22:35	Dagmar	No one but the occasional lawyer cares if the document uses 1.15 intra-line spacing instead of 1.20 intra-line spacing
2021-06-21 10:22:40	Guest18	Haha okay... That's like going to a professional painter and telling them 'oh the brush size is not important, maybe consider colour to be more important'
2021-06-21 10:22:49	Dagmar	Just as long as it's consistent throughout.
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2021-06-21 10:23:12	domhnall	Guest18: meh,,, not really the same...
2021-06-21 10:23:34	Dagmar	I guarantee you the painter isn't going to care if the brush is 5 inches wide or 4.5 inches wide
2021-06-21 10:23:43	Guest18	alright, I'm done talking to you children. CU
2021-06-21 10:23:47	Guest18	get a job too
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2021-06-21 10:23:53	Dagmar	It's a wall, not a museum piece.
2021-06-21 10:24:07	Dagmar	I am pretty sure I make more than a typesetter
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2021-06-21 10:24:24	ychaouche	in linux, simply putting setting a hostname on a machine doesn't necessarily make that machine responding by that name from other machines right ? (like ping, rsync and other commands)
2021-06-21 10:24:43	Dagmar	ychaouche: Yeah that pretty much affects nothign else on the network
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2021-06-21 10:25:09	ychaouche	Dagmar: is there anything similar in purpose to netbios though ?
2021-06-21 10:25:19	Dagmar	ychaouche: The only way other hosts will ever find out is if the machine is using DHCP, and the DHCP client dutifully picks up the hostname and sends it along to the DHCP server in the lease request
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2021-06-21 10:25:35	Dagmar	Yeah, there's mDNS, which Macs are generally okay with
2021-06-21 10:25:42	ychaouche	Dagmar: dyndns ?
2021-06-21 10:25:48	ychaouche	for the dhcp part
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2021-06-21 10:26:05	Dagmar	..but if you've got a decent DHCP/DNS setup going, any given LInux machine should wind up with it's hostname showing up in DNS after getting a DHCP lease
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2021-06-21 10:26:32	ychaouche	for my case they're static
2021-06-21 10:26:41	Dagmar	Not dyndns, the DHCP server literally gets the hostname parameter from the lease request and kicks it over to the DNS server to be immediately added into whatever zones are in play
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2021-06-21 10:27:04	ychaouche	I thought that was precisely what dyndns was :(
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2021-06-21 10:27:05	Dagmar	If you're using DHCP to hand out static allocations then _just populate your zone files properly_
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2021-06-21 10:27:40	Dagmar	No, dyndns is typically some data being passed to a server over HTTP and then a much more involved process puts that entry into a zone file somewhere
2021-06-21 10:28:05	Dagmar	The DHCP-into-local-DNS thing is just a handful of packets documented in RFCs
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2021-06-21 10:31:12	Dagmar	ychaouche: Perhaps you should tell us what you're tryign to make happen, not how you're trying to do it
2021-06-21 10:31:59	ychaouche	Oh, basically just adressing my statically adressed machines with their hostnames instead of their addresses
2021-06-21 10:32:04	ychaouche	I'm looking at my options
2021-06-21 10:32:12	Dagmar	If theyr'e static, just stick 'em in a zone and be done with it
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2021-06-21 10:32:38	ychaouche	the obvious option was to add them to a dns server, but I was asking myself if there were other options like netbios in ms windows computers
2021-06-21 10:32:48	Dagmar	Otherwise it's just like 3-5 lines of config stuff to get ISC's DHCP talking to BIND and automatically adding entries to a zone
2021-06-21 10:33:01	ychaouche	there's no dhcp server on that LAN
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2021-06-21 10:33:42	Dagmar	Yeah there's mDNS which largely just requires you run Avahi on the things, but Windows isn't exactly aware of mDNS.  You could always run Samba on everything and that would get you as far as netbios functionality
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2021-06-21 10:34:21	Dagmar	Either you are setting yourself up for future pain and suffering by expecting to _manually configure_ the networking on each and every host, or you don't have very many hosts
2021-06-21 10:35:32	Dagmar	Allow me to suggest rather strongly that its' going to be universally easier to copy a stanza in dhcpd.conf when adding hosts to the network than literally every other possible method (other than relying on 169.254.0.0/16)
2021-06-21 10:35:38	<--	hmvago (~hmvago@77.72.197.136) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-21 10:35:49	Dagmar	...and DHCPd can run on a dead weevil.
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2021-06-21 10:36:16	Shariff	Dagmar: I have no idea what a dead weevil is, but it sounds hilarious :)
2021-06-21 10:36:22	Dagmar	It's a bug
2021-06-21 10:36:45	Dagmar	DHCP is not a complex protocol, and the server doesn't really need a lot of care and feeding either
2021-06-21 10:37:04	Dagmar	Mainly you just tell it an IP range and "Go play"
2021-06-21 10:37:14	Shariff	Dagmar: Ah, I took it as a metaphor for it can run on anything.. oops :)
2021-06-21 10:37:40	Dagmar	Assigning a static lease via mac address is two statements in a curly-braced stanza
2021-06-21 10:37:48	Dagmar	It can run on just about anything
2021-06-21 10:37:58	ychaouche	Dagmar: yeah not that many hosts, and again no DHCP server running on that LAN. for mDNS I need to run and configure it on each host. I think I'm going to stick with DNS.
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2021-06-21 10:38:25	ychaouche	thanks for input
2021-06-21 10:38:29	Dagmar	If the network is that small you might as well just use a hosts file
2021-06-21 10:38:35	spine-o-saurus	why does powerdns opt to put that in a database then
2021-06-21 10:38:58	Dagmar	spine-o-saurus: Probably because they're attempting to scale to much more self-important workloads.
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2021-06-21 10:39:14	Dagmar	DNS itself is a very, very simple database.
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2021-06-21 10:39:26	Dagmar	Lexically heirarchical data.
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2021-06-21 10:40:59	Dagmar	I kid you not when I say I've got a 14-story office building that could have its entire DNS/DHCP needs satisfied by one Raspberry Pi 3B+
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2021-06-21 10:41:24	ychaouche	Just found where my confusion came from : https://youtu.be/P5fIALJ2z_U?list=FL6O_QtO8XbkAhNCwDJF4uzw&t=437
2021-06-21 10:41:37	ychaouche	https://i.imgur.com/BS0XjPZ.png
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2021-06-21 10:42:39	Dagmar	Yeah dyndns is a specific implementation different from "Dynamic DNS"
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2021-06-21 10:43:11	ychaouche	oh
2021-06-21 10:43:17	Dagmar	Dynamic DNS is basically anythign that's updating a zone in realtime
2021-06-21 10:43:25	ychaouche	then we were talking about two different things
2021-06-21 10:43:29	Dagmar	dyndns == afraid.org and such
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2021-06-21 10:44:33	Dagmar	More accurately, dynamic DNS is a feature of interaction between DHCP and DNS servers, as outlined in their respective RFCs.
2021-06-21 10:44:53	Dagmar	It's generally as secure as DHCP is
2021-06-21 10:44:59	Dagmar	(which is not saying much)
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2021-06-21 10:45:17	CalimeroTeknik	hello! why is it that, without CAP_NET_ADMIN or suid, `ss` can see all connections as any user?
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2021-06-21 10:45:35	CalimeroTeknik	it's using the netlink interface
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2021-06-21 10:45:48	Dagmar	Probably the restrictions have been completely disabled
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2021-06-21 10:46:15	CalimeroTeknik	where are these restrictions configured?
2021-06-21 10:46:27	CalimeroTeknik	or do you mean a patch removed them from the kernel?
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2021-06-21 10:53:39	Dagmar	ss has always been able to see other people's socket binds
2021-06-21 10:53:40	rud0lf	if my RUN=... in udev is play sound command which waits for the sound to end, would it hold the execution until done?
2021-06-21 10:53:46	rud0lf	should i detach it?
2021-06-21 10:53:49	Dagmar	It's not like you can really _hide_ them
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2021-06-21 10:54:10	Dagmar	What it can't normally see without special privs is what processes have them open.
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2021-06-21 11:17:07	mloza	is there a way to make fstrim less IO intensive?
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2021-06-21 11:19:14	Dagmar	How is what it does a problem?
2021-06-21 11:19:30	Dagmar	It should not be what most people consider "IO intensive"
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2021-06-21 11:20:36	Dagmar	It'll be close to that running it on a large and complex fileysstem the first time, but after that it shouldn't be an even noticeable overhead
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2021-06-21 11:21:39	akk	Is there a reliable way to get whois info? (either commandline or, preferably, python) I'm having trouble with /usr/bin/whois and python-whois timing out.
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2021-06-21 11:22:19	Dagmar	whois hasn't exactly been a "reliable" method since the 90s
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2021-06-21 11:23:05	Dagmar	JUst focus on managing the timeouts and you can have all the 'CLIENT INFORMATION RESTRICTED' data you wan
2021-06-21 11:23:08	Dagmar	t
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2021-06-21 11:24:27	Dagmar	...and if you're wondering, that's because that was the last time literally _anyone_ (including the IANA) actually made accurate whois information a requirement for anything and actually enforced it
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2021-06-21 11:24:42	akk	I have a python script that loops over python-whois retrying if there's a timeout, but I have to do so many retries that when I run the script, by the time it's finished I forget I need to look at the list and have moved on to something else.
2021-06-21 11:24:45	--	faber_ is now known as yarra
2021-06-21 11:25:04	BSaboia	I am trying to check some pattern on a file, but it's something rather complex. So it goes like this: if I have a match on Word A, I have to search for Word B until I have an empty line. Otherwise, I have to have some kind of error. Some sample here https://gist.github.com/brunosaboia/829d82966be19720330a9f0ded659764
2021-06-21 11:25:12	BSaboia	if I use sed, I can almost do it. I tried sed -n -e "/Word A/,/Word B/p", but then it prints everything if the pattern is not found, and the exit code is 0... so no goodie
2021-06-21 11:25:27	akk	I should probably put it in cron or something and have it email me the list once a week.
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2021-06-21 11:26:00	Dagmar	BSaboia: So tell it to not print non-matching data
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2021-06-21 11:26:38	rapha	to transplant an mdadm raid array from one box to another, must i do anything else but unmount it before hot-unplugging the drives?
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2021-06-21 11:28:04	Dagmar	rapha: Depends on your personal tolerance for excitement probably
2021-06-21 11:28:26	Dagmar	It would probably be a good idea to _stop_ the array
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2021-06-21 11:28:58	Dagmar	Otherwise, well... think about what it means when you remove a disk from a raid 5 array
2021-06-21 11:29:06	Dagmar	...and then remove a _second_ disk from the raid 5 array.
2021-06-21 11:29:27	Dagmar	What's mdadm going to do now knowing that 2 drives from a raid 5 array are missing
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2021-06-21 11:30:55	Dagmar	IF you stop it first, nothing gets a chance to mark members as being part of a _failed array that needs resynching/rebuilding_
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2021-06-21 11:31:32	rapha	Dagmar: let's put it at "low" for today :)
2021-06-21 11:31:46	rapha	okay
2021-06-21 11:31:50	 *	rapha googles how to stop an array
2021-06-21 11:31:59	BSaboia	Dagmar, I tried that, but I am not sure on how to do it
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2021-06-21 11:33:55	BSaboia	Dagmar, I tried this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1665549/have-sed-ignore-non-matching-lines/1665574 , so sed -n -e "/Word A/,/Word B/;t;d"
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2021-06-21 11:35:06	rapha	aaah sh** ... can't even umount ... "target is busy" ... but "fuser /mount/point" comes back empty ... i hate this
2021-06-21 11:35:26	Dagmar	rapha: I've watched guys figure this out _as_ they're pulling disks from a rack.  The look on their face was priceless
2021-06-21 11:35:41	RayTracer	rapha: maybe "fuser -muv /mount/point"
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2021-06-21 11:35:50	Dagmar	rapha: It was like, "Wait... why did the lights suddenly go on on the othere disks?"
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2021-06-21 11:36:41	rapha	Dagmar: depending on the data stored on those drives, i guess the punch-in-the-guts-feeling can be quite severe.
2021-06-21 11:37:41	Dagmar	Well, the data wasn't destroyed but the controller considered the array compromised and required a long and winding rebuild/check time
2021-06-21 11:37:56	rapha	RayTracer: only "/srv/mega:        root     kernel mount (root)/srv/mega"
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2021-06-21 11:38:37	rapha	Dagmar: two colleagues of mine are still cross at one another because one of them just pulled a broken drive ... and the other had to set up a brand-new array because of it.
2021-06-21 11:39:18	Dagmar	doh!
2021-06-21 11:39:21	rapha	ooooh
2021-06-21 11:39:23	rapha	wait
2021-06-21 11:39:25	rapha	nfs...?
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2021-06-21 11:39:56	rapha	aaah, yes nfs
2021-06-21 11:40:00	rapha	it's kernel-internal
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2021-06-21 11:40:11	kieto	Hi! I'm looking for an easy and nice looking software to draw diagrams. Any tips?
2021-06-21 11:40:35	hodapp	kieto: Dia?
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2021-06-21 11:40:40	knocktwice	kieto: inkscape
2021-06-21 11:40:44	kieto	I'm trying diagrams.net app for ubuntu but it doesn't look so good
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2021-06-21 11:40:53	omegatron	https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Dia/
2021-06-21 11:41:03	hodapp	Inkscape is more free-form and happens to be able to do diagrams, Dia is more specific to diagrams
2021-06-21 11:41:05	MrElendig	depends on the type of diagrams
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2021-06-21 11:41:16	MrElendig	+ you want
2021-06-21 11:41:16	knocktwice	bigger hammer :)
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2021-06-21 11:41:29	RayTracer	kieto: maybe https://www.yworks.com/products/yed
2021-06-21 11:41:34	MrElendig	who handdraws diagrams anymore though?
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2021-06-21 11:41:54	Dagmar	I am literally doing that on paper right now
2021-06-21 11:41:59	craigevil	krita
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2021-06-21 11:42:41	kieto	krita and inkscape will require a steep learning curve, I guess, right?
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2021-06-21 11:43:10	MrElendig	graphviz/diagrams/similar
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2021-06-21 11:43:28	Guest31	I also have been looking for a good diagram program. Something that can draw stuff precisely, like, with coordinates and stuff
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2021-06-21 11:43:37	Dagmar	Inkscape is not hard to use to draw lines and boxes
2021-06-21 11:43:46	rapha	Dagmar: ok, turns out that's not an mdadm array at all, but a btrfs one...
2021-06-21 11:44:21	winircuser-318	gecko: Gecko Connect
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2021-06-21 11:44:42	Guest31	inkscape doesn't have some common diagram things, like arrows or charts
2021-06-21 11:44:48	MrElendig	draw.io is not too horrible btw but of course not free
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2021-06-21 11:45:34	Guest31	The closet one I've found is libreoffice draw
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2021-06-21 11:46:10	Bocaneri	What about dia ?
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2021-06-21 11:47:04	jelly	also not free: ms visio
2021-06-21 11:47:33	Guest31	Haven't tried it. Does it have some precision tools, like setting coordinates for the start and end of arrows?
2021-06-21 11:47:53	Dagmar	Generally one simply draws their objects and copypastas them where they need to be
2021-06-21 11:48:04	akik	kieto: if you want to learn inkscape, check out logos by nick on youtube
2021-06-21 11:48:22	randomuser	I think that dia is the best option.
2021-06-21 11:49:15	Dagmar	...and Inkscape does in fact have arrows.
2021-06-21 11:49:36	kieto	akik: cool, thanks!
2021-06-21 11:49:54	kieto	RayTracer: yed also looks good :)
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2021-06-21 11:51:13	akik	yed and dia felt a bit restrictive when connecting items
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2021-06-21 11:51:35	geirha	You might try umlet
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2021-06-21 11:52:09	geirha	The UI is a bit weird, but once you get used to it, it's quite nice
2021-06-21 11:52:13	randomuser	And dia does not support newer UML features.
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2021-06-21 11:53:28	kieto	I think I'll stick with diagrams.net, the 'sketch' attribute gives it a nicer layout
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2021-06-21 11:56:47	rapha	Dagmar: do you have a rule of thumb how hot spinning rust of 3.5" is allowed to run to get good lifetime out of it?
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2021-06-21 11:59:48	omegatron	rapha: how old is your patient?
2021-06-21 11:59:54	omegatron	a recent disk?
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2021-06-21 12:00:18	omegatron	and is it 5.400 or 7.200 or 10k ?
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2021-06-21 12:01:26	MrElendig	some of them even want a bit of warmth for the best lifespan
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2021-06-21 12:02:00	jelly	rapha, pulling some numbers out of thin air, probably <= 40°C for 10krpm, <= 45°C for 15krpm
2021-06-21 12:02:19	rapha	omegatron: 4x WD Gold 8TB ... 7k2rpm ... they've been running for 5 weeks now, constantly writing at ~1.5MB/s and will now be transplanted elsewhere and then only occasionally be accessed at all.
2021-06-21 12:02:29	camel_case	hdd tech is revolutionary. One day all computers will use it
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2021-06-21 12:03:43	rapha	nah, floppies are enough for everybody
2021-06-21 12:04:17	omegatron	and what is your definition of "good lifetime" ? months? years? 10 years?
2021-06-21 12:04:25	Guest31	I miss DVDs.
2021-06-21 12:04:30	rapha	omegatron: 10 years would be cool
2021-06-21 12:04:59	rapha	(is it better to have them spin down automatically or keep them going all the time?)
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2021-06-21 12:05:30	treefrob	rapha: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-temperature-does-it-matter/
2021-06-21 12:05:35	rapha	if it makes a difference, they're to be considered r/o from now
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2021-06-21 12:06:00	topoi	Is anyone using motion for streaming and has some configuration tips for maximizing the framerate?
2021-06-21 12:06:16	rapha	w00t?!
2021-06-21 12:06:19	rapha	0.0 correlation?!
2021-06-21 12:07:13	rapha	also these are helium-filled which might or might not make a diff
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2021-06-21 12:07:35	rapha	hmm and the article mentions a temp range of +14 to +38°C
2021-06-21 12:07:39	omegatron	wouldn't surprise me - in my past 10 years I had experienced, that either a disk borked from the beginning or just works endlessly
2021-06-21 12:07:43	rapha	mine were at 42-44°C
2021-06-21 12:08:00	omegatron	but my disks are usually between 35-45° C
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2021-06-21 12:08:11	omegatron	depending on load of course
2021-06-21 12:08:29	rapha	yeah, they were writing all the time ... so 44 is probably not so bad
2021-06-21 12:08:53	omegatron	and the worst were the WDs.. one even caught fire in my old work machine
2021-06-21 12:08:57	omegatron	wasn't that funny
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2021-06-21 12:09:30	omegatron	luckily the WD beneath it wasn't burned that much, so I could retrieve all data, before it began rusting
2021-06-21 12:10:04	treefrob	oh I dunno... a burning disk sounds hilarious
2021-06-21 12:10:11	omegatron	and of course, I'm glad that no other components in the machine were affected (as it seems)
2021-06-21 12:10:29	treefrob	what, exactly, caught fire?
2021-06-21 12:10:39	rapha	hmm funky
2021-06-21 12:10:44	omegatron	I still got the disk behind me, wrapped and packed .. the smell, I tell you .. the smell
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2021-06-21 12:11:17	rapha	we only buy WD after some seagate and some other brand started giving SMART errors ... only green, red and blue so far, these are our first gold... but first 5 weeks no probs
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2021-06-21 12:11:18	omegatron	it seemed to me, the little mainboard on it was the culprit and also affected the motor
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2021-06-21 12:11:42	treefrob	ah, the PC board, you mean
2021-06-21 12:11:54	treefrob	"printed circuit"
2021-06-21 12:11:56	omegatron	in theory, I could send ya a picture, but I'm too lazy for that right now.. maybe some other day
2021-06-21 12:12:03	omegatron	yes, the circuit board
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2021-06-21 12:12:31	omegatron	but I would prefer to send you the smell !  =)
2021-06-21 12:12:38	omegatron	it's disgusting
2021-06-21 12:12:46	treefrob	thanks, I smell enough as it is
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2021-06-21 12:13:46	omegatron	anyway, we switched now to seagate disks - no problem until now ( 600 tb array )
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2021-06-21 12:14:28	jim	treefrob, thanks for thinking of it... pc is fine for this
2021-06-21 12:14:47	Samian	anyone know how to get easy_install on ubuntu 20.04 ?
2021-06-21 12:15:10	omegatron	but, we also have disks in some NAS here and there, and according to the monitor programs, they go up to almost 60°C .. and are also already 7 years old - no problem so far
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2021-06-21 12:15:55	treefrob	jim, huh?
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2021-06-21 12:16:15	treefrob	rapha, there is also this page: https://www.buildcomputers.net/hdd-temperature.html
2021-06-21 12:16:46	treefrob	I certainly would agree with the conclusing that > 50°C is too hot
2021-06-21 12:16:52	rapha	ic
2021-06-21 12:16:58	treefrob	s/conclusing/conclusion/
2021-06-21 12:17:04	rapha	got it :)
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2021-06-21 12:17:25	omegatron	yeah, today's disks should rarely go above 45°C
2021-06-21 12:17:36	kfrench	I like conclusing.
2021-06-21 12:17:57	treefrob	kfrench, make sure your webcam is OFF
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2021-06-21 12:18:29	jim	treefrob, you don't need to expand pc to printed circuit, due to the rule against sms (because it's not sms)
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2021-06-21 12:19:35	treefrob	jim, ah. I wasn't worried about that. It was simply my pedantic tendency towards didacticism
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2021-06-21 12:20:44	MrElendig	I don't always buy WD; but when I do I buy unbranded SMR drives
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2021-06-21 12:22:03	Dagmar	I know the manufs are generally okay wiht them being 60C (140F) but I personally prefer not to burn my freakin' fingers on the things
2021-06-21 12:22:05	treefrob	MrElendig, you use them purely for archival purposes and write to them as though they were tapes?
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2021-06-21 12:22:23	MrElendig	treefrob: was mostly a stab at the wd stealth smr scandal
2021-06-21 12:22:33	treefrob	ah, thanks
2021-06-21 12:22:34	 *	MrElendig do actually have some reds, but they are cmr
2021-06-21 12:22:40	Dagmar	The chatter about SMR's performance issues are generally blown wildly out of proportion
2021-06-21 12:22:52	omegatron	well, he was asking for a rule of thumb ... the rule is: when your thumb burns, when you touch it, it's probably too hot
2021-06-21 12:23:08	Dagmar	...but I personally found it amusing that people were expecting to use them in RAID arrays and remain spindle-synched like it's 1998 or something
2021-06-21 12:23:10	MrElendig	depends on use case, anything smelling of db useage or similar gets a massive performance impacg
2021-06-21 12:23:17	MrElendig	impact*
2021-06-21 12:23:19	treefrob	Dagmar, apparently SMR can cause delays that lead to NAS timeouts and drives marked as failed...
2021-06-21 12:23:46	Dagmar	treefrob: Yes because they have no chill, and they're definitely being used in an array in that role
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2021-06-21 12:24:02	MrElendig	the problem was not smr though, but not actually telling people what they get, and sadly it have become more and more popular
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2021-06-21 12:24:25	MrElendig	eg see all the nvme drives that have been massively "degraded" recently
2021-06-21 12:24:33	johnnyapol	if you're using SMR in a random-write heavy workload you're in for a bad time
2021-06-21 12:24:35	treefrob	I was surprised that disk manfacturers were willing to take that risk
2021-06-21 12:24:48	MrElendig	johnnyapol: yes, and users were not told that they were buying smr drives
2021-06-21 12:24:58	johnnyapol	yeah im aware.
2021-06-21 12:25:04	johnnyapol	https://blog.westerndigital.com/wd-red-nas-drives/
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2021-06-21 12:25:32	Dagmar	If you're expecting to put disks into a RAID array and want to get max performance out of them, then you should be not be buying "desktop" class disks
2021-06-21 12:25:35	omegatron	isn't there some class-actio suite running in the US about this?
2021-06-21 12:25:52	Dagmar	It's really that simple.
2021-06-21 12:25:53	xiaomiao	Dagmar: one would expect such disks to not come pre-broken
2021-06-21 12:26:00	treefrob	"suit"
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2021-06-21 12:26:18	xiaomiao	(but similar with ssd/nvme, ~10G fast cache, write more data and they are slower than a HDD on linear writes)
2021-06-21 12:26:21	Dagmar	xiaomiao: That would be a warranty claim then.  No one should be surprised by the occasional infant mortality either.
2021-06-21 12:26:45	MrElendig	https://www.tomshardware.com/news/pny-xlr8-cs-3030-ssd-endurance-reduced-almost-80-percent
2021-06-21 12:26:47	omegatron	ah yes, sorry .. rarely use that word ..
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2021-06-21 12:27:23	Dagmar	Yeah i'm not surprised at all seeing the budget brands having to turn around and lower their TBW warranties
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2021-06-21 12:27:43	MrElendig	pny blamed chia
2021-06-21 12:27:59	johnnyapol	chia eats ssds for breakfast
2021-06-21 12:28:01	xiaomiao	"we never expected people to actually use our products"
2021-06-21 12:28:02	Dagmar	THeir numbers for that were going _up_ wayy too fast considering there was precious little from the suppy end of the chain that promised such dramatic improvements
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2021-06-21 12:28:46	Guest31	Anyone really mining chia?
2021-06-21 12:28:48	johnnyapol	im fine with peple doing mining on their own hardware but people who were trying to mine on shared cloud environments were just being assholes to their neighbors
2021-06-21 12:28:50	MrElendig	xpg on the other hand just quietly replaced the nand chips with some noname chenzen special ones that halved performance and dropped the twb by 50%
2021-06-21 12:29:00	paulcarroty	PNY is bad, really
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2021-06-21 12:29:05	MrElendig	without updating the specs
2021-06-21 12:29:09	Dagmar	johnnyapol: Well, technically the hosting providers were overpromising in the first place
2021-06-21 12:29:35	johnnyapol	its pretty hard to optimize for the sheer amount of abuse that comes from the chia workloads
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2021-06-21 12:29:46	johnnyapol	otherwise everyone would be getting their own dedicated storage chip
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2021-06-21 12:29:51	Dagmar	MrElendig: I saw that... My guess is they had a supply issue.  Even if they had to drop the warranty they were at least keeping the factory busy making some money
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2021-06-21 12:30:41	Dagmar	I keep seeing all these softball articles about supply chain issues due to the pandemic and economics, and sure enough if you dig you *will* find htem screwing things up
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2021-06-21 12:30:50	Dagmar	Like, good luck buying Raspberry Pis in any quantity right now
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2021-06-21 12:31:29	MrElendig	for rpi it depends on mode, biggest issue is supposedly one of the usb controllers
2021-06-21 12:31:43	Dagmar	No we're buying them 20-30 at a time
2021-06-21 12:32:21	Dagmar	They're *remarkably* thin on the ground right now, with everyone saying there's a 20-week lead time on getting more in
2021-06-21 12:33:19	MrElendig	cm4 seems more readily available than most others
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2021-06-21 12:42:18	greatcoof	what's a good disassembler i can use?
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2021-06-21 12:43:12	johnnyapol	ghidra is becoming my favorite
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2021-06-21 12:43:55	greatcoof	termnal app?
2021-06-21 12:44:39	johnnyapol	nope, its a gui. if you want a terminal app you can just use objdump i guess
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2021-06-21 12:46:35	MrElendig	ymmv depending on what you are trying to disassemble, and how much money you are willing to spend
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2021-06-21 12:47:22	greatcoof	MrElendig: money?
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2021-06-21 12:47:58	omegatron	there are commercial disassembler software packages available ..
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2021-06-21 12:48:41	omegatron	but you have plenty available, which are open source ... depending on the machine code you want to analyze
2021-06-21 12:49:15	greatcoof	>commercial disassembler software packages available ..,but the source code is public ..right?
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2021-06-21 12:49:31	MrElendig	ida pro > most things as a generic dissasembler
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2021-06-21 12:50:24	greatcoof	i have a dumb question...
2021-06-21 12:50:25	omegatron	just use capstone, ghidra et al., udis86, or whatever you want
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2021-06-21 12:50:49	pa	Hi folks, a question about the sata subsystem: is there a way to configure it somehow?
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2021-06-21 12:51:19	pa	i have a weird behavior with one drive: somehow, as soon as it gets mounted, it keeps being polled by the system, like with actual sata activity
2021-06-21 12:51:26	greatcoof	why can we reverse machine code to assembly but we cant reverse what rompilers do
2021-06-21 12:51:36	greatcoof	and get the source code
2021-06-21 12:51:42	pa	and nothing is being done with that drive.. so i wonder if it's like a drive not being recognized or what
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2021-06-21 12:51:50	pa	(drive works just fine btw)
2021-06-21 12:52:13	MrElendig	greatcoof: you kinda can
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2021-06-21 12:52:28	MrElendig	ymmv depending on original language
2021-06-21 12:52:39	jelly	greatcoof, why can you combine ingredients to bake a cake, but you can't reduce the cake back to original ingredients?
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2021-06-21 12:53:22	jelly	some transformations are irreversible and data is lost
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2021-06-21 12:54:06	pa	this is what happens, btw: https://streamable.com/fbt236
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2021-06-21 12:54:08	omegatron	and if you are referring for example to nvidia drivers: they are encrypted, so you would need the private key to transform them to the actual machine code and data
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2021-06-21 12:54:30	pa	you see its brother behaving alright
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2021-06-21 12:54:54	greatcoof	jelly: if a C compiler transforms printf to 69420 we can look for the 69420's right?
2021-06-21 12:55:32	johnnyapol	omegatron: the easiest way to get around that is just to load the modules into the kernel at which point they have to be decrypted, and then you can extract them :)
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2021-06-21 12:57:10	greatcoof	user217 has name identity crisis
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2021-06-21 12:58:56	lacroix	user217____, ?
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2021-06-21 12:59:53	user217____	sorry, I forget to leave the channels
2021-06-21 13:00:00	lacroix	no worries
2021-06-21 13:00:32	hexoroid	Disable on Disconnect connect
2021-06-21 13:00:49	hexoroid	or make auto identify script
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2021-06-21 13:02:37	hexoroid	user217____ http://scripting.pball.x10.mx/2011/04/11/auto-identify/ something like that
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2021-06-21 13:03:03	omegatron	johnnyapol:  yeah, I was talking about the firmware, which needs to be signed for GM20x and newer
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2021-06-21 13:09:03	jelly	greatcoof, a compiler might translate six different things the exact same machine code; it also might translate the same source code line to different machine code represtentations depending on context and compiler and build flags used
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2021-06-21 13:09:43	jelly	greatcoof, that said, decompilers exist for some languages, eg. java
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2021-06-21 13:10:16	jelly	you won't get the original source, but you might get something useful
2021-06-21 13:10:22	greatcoof	what about C
2021-06-21 13:10:39	Dagmar	It depends on what was compiled in the first place
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2021-06-21 13:10:40	jelly	what about it.
2021-06-21 13:11:02	greatcoof	jelly: yes ofcourse wont getthe original but something to tell us what its doing
2021-06-21 13:11:07	Dagmar	IF the program is fairly linear, you'll get somethign that resembles the original
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2021-06-21 13:11:49	Dagmar	If it bounces around between functions and uses a lot of nesting, you will get an "unravaled" version which may look like the work of a madman in an environment of 30% aerosolized bath salts.
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2021-06-21 13:11:58	omegatron	you also might simply use gdb if you want to understand  what's going on in a program/process ..
2021-06-21 13:12:10	jelly	greatcoof, reverse engineering uses many techniques and different tools, not just one magical decompiler
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2021-06-21 13:12:45	Dagmar	Java decompiling is a little bit different becasue largely it's just translating straight to java _bytecode_ when it "compiles"
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2021-06-21 13:13:03	jelly	greatcoof, perhaps you want to learn how to go back from an executable to a functional specification "this program does that and that"
2021-06-21 13:13:17	Dagmar	Those are mostly atomic java operations just represented as a couple of bytes instead of foo.bar.understandableFunction.method()
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2021-06-21 13:13:58	 *	jelly unrolls some loops
2021-06-21 13:13:58	Dagmar	sort() is actually identifiable as "sort()" rather than with C where the sort function turns into a nasty mess of recursion and pointer-bation
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2021-06-21 13:15:01	Dagmar	Heck you even generally get the original _variable names_ from Java unless an obfuscator was used during the compiling process
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2021-06-21 13:15:07	greatcoof	Dagmar: so interpreted languages are easier to reverse engneer?
2021-06-21 13:15:08	jelly	basically it's a complex topic
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2021-06-21 13:15:29	Dagmar	Interpreted languages dont' need to be reverse engineered at all.
2021-06-21 13:16:01	Dagmar	THe "source" is the thing being executed
2021-06-21 13:16:20	greatcoof	kinda
2021-06-21 13:16:33	Dagmar	Java acts like an interpreted language, but is not
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2021-06-21 13:17:40	 *	msiism executes Rexx.
2021-06-21 13:17:52	Dagmar	The main difference here is that relatively small C atoms are transalted into a large pile of even smaller assembly op atoms
2021-06-21 13:18:08	Dagmar	Java atoms are translated into a slightly different java atom.
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2021-06-21 13:18:29	Dagmar	Those atoms are then dealt with by the runtime which is itself composed of a bunch of teeny-weeny assembly atoms
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2021-06-21 13:18:51	greatcoof	atoms? what that mean never heard this term before
2021-06-21 13:19:03	Dagmar	You _could_ make something that translated them all the way down to assembly, perhaps if you lived to be 100 adn had a raging adderal addiction
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2021-06-21 13:19:41	Dagmar	You never learned what an atom is in grade school?
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2021-06-21 13:20:05	greatcoof	yes
2021-06-21 13:20:16	Dagmar	This isn't about chemistry.  An atom is a thing that can't be broken down into smaller pieces.
2021-06-21 13:20:43	 *	Bocaneri bombards Dagmar with neutrons
2021-06-21 13:20:52	johnnyapol	the biggest impediment to any non-trivial decompilation (in any language) is just the loss of debug symbols  and information (variable+function names, comments, etc.)
2021-06-21 13:20:55	greatcoof	ohhh...right
2021-06-21 13:20:56	Dagmar	They're called "sub-atomic" particles for a reason
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2021-06-21 13:21:32	johnnyapol	back in my youth, minecraft was a pain to decompile because they replaced all the variable names with unicode snowman so the resulting code couldnt even be recompiled. you had to wait on special tools to fix that up for you
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2021-06-21 13:21:50	Dagmar	That's the work of the obfuscator.
2021-06-21 13:21:52	ntwk	They were playing a little fast and loose when they named actual atoms.
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2021-06-21 13:21:55	greatcoof	atoms are the smallest structure THAT CAN MAKE CHEMICAL REACTIONS
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2021-06-21 13:22:09	Dagmar	ntwk: Well, they were also runing around wearing bedsheets to the office.
2021-06-21 13:22:25	Bocaneri	greatcoof, that's the best thing I've seen in a while.
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2021-06-21 13:23:07	Dagmar	See also https://www.npr.org/2010/11/19/131447080/science-diction-the-origin-of-the-word-atom
2021-06-21 13:23:09	greatcoof	but chemical reaction is an atom only thinc
2021-06-21 13:23:15	greatcoof	*g
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2021-06-21 13:24:06	Dagmar	greatconf: They didn't just pull out an electron microscope and find the tiniest thing and say "We will call it... AN ATOM!"
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2021-06-21 13:24:19	Bocaneri	greatcoof, actually, chemical reactions can occur between molecules, too, but that's just me splitting hairs.
2021-06-21 13:24:37	ntwk	Splitting?
2021-06-21 13:24:40	ntwk	Is that a pun?
2021-06-21 13:24:45	Bocaneri	Of course. O:)
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2021-06-21 13:24:52	Dagmar	ENough to get a warning from the police.  ;)
2021-06-21 13:25:13	Dagmar	It was all I could do to not say "...or molecules!"
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2021-06-21 13:25:34	Dagmar	(or polymerise chains)
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2021-06-21 13:26:39	greatcoof	>That's the work of the obfuscator , those aholes are tring to stop revese engneering now ?!
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2021-06-21 13:27:07	Dagmar	You saw how many people were trying to rip off each others minecraft addons
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2021-06-21 13:27:55	Dagmar	Just imaging how many idiotic Minecraft knockoffs there would have been had these same people been able to trivially decompile and recompile thing after shoving their name and adbanner code in there
2021-06-21 13:28:01	Dagmar	s/imaging/imagine/
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2021-06-21 13:28:59	greatcoof	why would anyone play a game that only 5 people play and cant interact with the original minecraft
2021-06-21 13:29:38	 *	greatcoof 's FSF side talking here...
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2021-06-21 13:30:37	Dagmar	Well, for one, that's not how it usually plays out
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2021-06-21 13:31:33	Dagmar	Usually some jackhole steals the project while it's still small, and then floods the interwebs with flashy advertisements that are meant to make things look like _they_ are the real professional product
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2021-06-21 13:32:24	Dagmar	...and this happens a LOT with Java
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2021-06-21 13:32:44	Dagmar	I've got an app in teh app store that I am way overdue in updating, but it's basically a freakin widget clock
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2021-06-21 13:33:00	Dagmar	...but anything you put in the Play Store almost immediately has 2-3 things happen in the first 24 hours.
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2021-06-21 13:33:38	Dagmar	First, 2-3 companies contact you to ask you if you'd be interested in their professional "promotion" of your software, by which they mean they'd like to charge you to have 500-1000 bots in China download your package to make it look like you have users.
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2021-06-21 13:34:03	Dagmar	Secondly, they download your apk and repackage it into third-party app stores, injecting adware modules into it when and where they can.
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2021-06-21 13:34:20	Dagmar	...or it's shipped with an installer that is itself ad-ware.
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2021-06-21 13:34:37	Dagmar	I literally got people complaining to me about the ads in somethign that had NO ads at all
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2021-06-21 13:35:00	Dagmar	It turned out these were people who were almost exclusively using third-party app stores because they were cheating like crazy, but that's beside the point
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2021-06-21 13:35:12	knocktwice	Some companies seem to think that ads about themselves don't count as ads...
2021-06-21 13:35:26	Dagmar	THe only way I put a stop to that crap was to put code in my program to check the provenance, i.e., if it was actually installed from the PLay Store
2021-06-21 13:35:41	Dagmar	Calling foul _immediately_ didn't do any good because they'd just not update their copy
2021-06-21 13:35:42	akk	Why do people use the third-party app stores? Cheaper prices for apps that cost money?
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2021-06-21 13:36:05	Dagmar	I had to make the code _wait_ until a week or so had passed and then give a scary warning about third-party app stores and unlicenced distribution before they'd stop that crap
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2021-06-21 13:36:16	Dagmar	akk: Piracy-for-profit mainly
2021-06-21 13:36:24	johnnyapol	theres a number of devices where google play doesnt exist so those third party stores are popular on there too
2021-06-21 13:36:50	akk	Oh, true, I remember when I had an android device that didn't have the play store.
2021-06-21 13:37:05	Dagmar	johnnyapol: And for sooome reason, those locations never seem to have a problem stealing their APKs from the first party app store
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2021-06-21 13:37:27	Dagmar	If any *one* of them had acted like a legitimate business I would have considered pushing updates to them
2021-06-21 13:38:19	Dagmar	THe only place that didn't act like pirates run amok was the F-thing that only did open-source projects
2021-06-21 13:38:50	akk	F-droid, and it has other problems.
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2021-06-21 13:39:35	Dagmar	But part of hte reason I got complaints about ads was that people would search GOogle for my package and there were a half dozen shifty third-party sites that had SEO'd the name of my app to hell and back
2021-06-21 13:40:01	Dagmar	...probably because I studiously ignored their obvious requests to engage in fraud on my behalf.
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2021-06-21 13:41:01	charon	akk, what problems does f-droid have?
2021-06-21 13:41:10	Dagmar	If you went straight to the play store it'd come right up, but otherwise you usually ahd to look on the second page of search results
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2021-06-21 13:41:22	Dagmar	charon: Absolutely no quality checking and anyone could upload any damn thing
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2021-06-21 13:41:43	charon	Dagmar, i see, thanks
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2021-06-21 13:41:56	akk	charon: It seems to be slow to update, and when updates do happen, the update always errors out and I have to try it many times, over and over, over a couple of days before it finally succeeds.
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2021-06-21 13:42:25	akk	And what Dagmar said too, of course.
2021-06-21 13:42:28	charon	akk, ok, i've heard of their server problems too
2021-06-21 13:42:31	Dagmar	Which is not all _that_ unreasonable or unexpected, but it fails to make parity with carefully curated stuff and a EULA that will bounce a developer pretty quick for lying about features or surreptitiously trying to steal user data
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2021-06-21 13:42:39	akk	charon: BTW, I'm typing this on a laptop named charon. :)
2021-06-21 13:42:53	charon	akk =)
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2021-06-21 13:44:51	akk	(and I should have spelled out By The Way, sorry)
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2021-06-21 13:46:02	Dagmar	akk: I like to poke jim by typing out 'bee tee dubs'
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2021-06-21 13:46:32	Dagmar	Of course, I will also _say_ "bee tee dubs" in common speech
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2021-06-21 13:49:03	jim	dagmar, careful with the combination of that and being confrontive to some folks
2021-06-21 13:49:03	treefrob	I appreciate jim's vigilant eye, which helps keep the quality of the exchange here high
2021-06-21 13:49:32	 *	treefrob looking to score the odd point with jim
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2021-06-21 13:49:53	jim	oh, you have plenty of odd points :)
2021-06-21 13:49:59	treefrob	:)
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2021-06-21 13:50:03	jim	just kidding :)
2021-06-21 13:50:20	Trieste	Hi, I have a folder with files, and I'd like to make another folder with the same structure but all files are hard (or soft) linked, is there an easy way to do that?
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2021-06-21 13:50:36	treefrob	there is a kernel of truth in much humor, and the kernel in the above is huge
2021-06-21 13:50:38	Linkandzelda	could someone tell me what happens when an LVM stripped volume which relies on 2 USB devices tries to mount when one of them isnt present or has failed?
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2021-06-21 13:51:21	treefrob	first of all, tell the volum to put its clothes back on
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2021-06-21 13:52:23	Linkandzelda	treefrob: haha! stripped volume trying to mount, hilarious xD
2021-06-21 13:52:50	hersky	Hey I was using tc inside a container to limit its ingress to x mbps. How do I test if this is working? I could try an iperf session but I can't install any applications on this container since I don't have permissions. What else can I try?
2021-06-21 13:52:55	treefrob	Linkandzelda, you'll get an error, because it's impossible to mount a striped volume if one of the members is gone
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2021-06-21 13:53:34	treefrob	or rather, it's impossible to bring the volume online
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2021-06-21 13:53:57	Linkandzelda	treefrob: any way to recover the data off the remaining one if that does happen? i have a 4TB drive as an LVM volume, but have a few 1TB ssds also usb that im thinking to extend it with
2021-06-21 13:54:20	treefrob	you have lost 50% of the data. what use is that?
2021-06-21 13:54:52	Linkandzelda	the last 50% would still be useful no? if possible, even 1%. either way, all that is backed up anyway
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2021-06-21 13:55:17	treefrob	if you have a backup, don't waste your time trying to get junk data off the remaining member
2021-06-21 13:55:42	treefrob	striped means chunk0->mem0, chunk1->mem1, chunk2->mem0, chunk3->mem1, etc
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2021-06-21 13:56:27	msiism	Trieste: I guess find(1) would provide a solution to that.
2021-06-21 13:56:28	treefrob	any file larger than your chunk-size is guaranteed to be distributed across both members
2021-06-21 13:56:29	Linkandzelda	oh, i thought it was sequential
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2021-06-21 13:56:39	treefrob	that would be "concatenated"
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2021-06-21 13:56:49	pa	ext4lazyinit <- is it possible to somehow force inode generation once and for all?
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2021-06-21 13:57:08	msiism	Trieste: That said, why do you want to do this?
2021-06-21 13:57:10	Linkandzelda	right now its just a VG with 1 device in, what mode does it use if i added a new device to it? concat or strip?
2021-06-21 13:57:12	Trieste	msiism: yeah, but there's the logic of creating the directories before copying the files, as well as replacing/interpolating the paths in the right way...
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2021-06-21 13:57:40	treefrob	Linkandzelda, no idea. rtf(riendly)m
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2021-06-21 13:57:59	Linkandzelda	treefrob: i'll read the friendly manual xD
2021-06-21 13:58:14	Linkandzelda	either way, as you said, doesnt really matter if its all backed up
2021-06-21 13:58:22	treefrob	yeah, so don't bother
2021-06-21 13:58:23	Trieste	msiism: I have a folder full of files that I want to make a selection out of :) and I'd prefer not duplicating my data
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2021-06-21 13:58:40	msiism	Trieste: I'd probably rsync the directroy tree first then.
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2021-06-21 13:59:12	msiism	And, find(1)'s -printf should be able to help you get the link path right, I guess.
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2021-06-21 13:59:20	msiism	If you're using GNU find(1).
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2021-06-21 14:00:10	msiism	This would actually be a useful addition to rsync: create links for $file_type when syncing.
2021-06-21 14:00:11	Trieste	Oh I just found out that `cp` has a switch just for that, it's `-l` - but I'll check out the `find` approach too
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2021-06-21 14:01:15	Linkandzelda	Trieste: i think rsync has a way to create a full set of hardlinks or softlinks with 1 command
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2021-06-21 14:01:22	msiism	Trieste: Okay, so you want to hard-link the whole shebang? Yeah, that makes better sense, actually.
2021-06-21 14:01:29	Linkandzelda	because its a common backup method, rsnapshot etc
2021-06-21 14:01:35	msiism	Oh…
2021-06-21 14:01:40	 *	msiism looks.
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2021-06-21 14:02:17	Trieste	msiism: what did you think I wanted to do? :)
2021-06-21 14:02:24	Trieste	Linkandzelda: neat
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2021-06-21 14:02:33	Linkandzelda	Trieste: also curious what you want to do with those hardlinks after?
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2021-06-21 14:04:04	Trieste	just... organize the files
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2021-06-21 14:04:19	Trieste	delete some, rename others, etc. - but not lose the originals
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2021-06-21 14:04:47	VG9t	Is there a way to source a file in a shell environment from cli args. Like if I ran `zsh` then typed `. ./file` and could carry on. Is there a way to do the `. ./file` bit with env vars or argv?
2021-06-21 14:05:17	Trieste	bash has -c IIRC
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2021-06-21 14:05:22	msiism	VG9t: What problem are you trying to solve?
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2021-06-21 14:06:41	msiism	Tireste: It's always fun to search for a certain funtionality in rsync(1) because:
2021-06-21 14:06:45	Linkandzelda	Trieste: if you have the space i'd duplicate it, organise the new set, then delete entirely the old one. just because im used to doing that
2021-06-21 14:06:51	msiism	"Counting out its daemon mode, this tool has 49 POSIX-style short options, plus -@, which isn't alpha-numeric. 47 of these options have GNU-style long-option equivalents. On top of that, there are another 80 GNU-style long options." (Me, somewhere)
2021-06-21 14:06:53	Linkandzelda	with rsync or unison
2021-06-21 14:07:10	Trieste	Linkandzelda: right, that's exactly what I came here to avoid :)
2021-06-21 14:07:37	Linkandzelda	Trieste: im not sure but if you have link, and you delete it, you only delete the link. but i only work with symbolic links
2021-06-21 14:08:08	msiism	Well, if you delete a hard link, as long as there is any other hard link to that file, the file will still be present.
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2021-06-21 14:08:17	msiism	Or, rather, visible.
2021-06-21 14:08:18	 *	treefrob must study the rsync manpage every time he wishes to employ it
2021-06-21 14:08:24	Trieste	in contrast, if you delete a symlink, nothing happens to the original, but if you delete the original, the symlink breaks
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2021-06-21 14:09:10	Linkandzelda	Trieste: yes, and i rather avoid that confusion when organising but thats me
2021-06-21 14:09:11	VG9t	I'm trying to source some functions into zsh when creating sessions from tmux, ideally without modifying .zshrc (by modifying tmux shell-command).
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2021-06-21 14:14:39	msiism	VG9t: alias szt='. ~/.tmux_session_functs' ?
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2021-06-21 14:15:36	msiism	Oh, you didn't want to modify ~/.zshrc…
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2021-06-21 14:18:04	rannnn8888	what can be the prbem i get "-bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory"
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2021-06-21 14:18:35	omegatron	a fork bomb ...
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2021-06-21 14:18:58	omegatron	do you have some recursion somewhere ?
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2021-06-21 14:19:37	rannnn8888	omegatron  what is  recursion ?
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2021-06-21 14:19:49	rannnn8888	the prblem start after run python script
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2021-06-21 14:20:03	msiism	rannnn8888: It's like that bird song on Family Guy.
2021-06-21 14:20:14	msiism	Or, is it?
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2021-06-21 14:20:34	chazy	hi, does the ext4 filesystem have any other reserved space aside from the one you can specify either when you create it or using tune2fs?
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2021-06-21 14:20:54	msiism	Okay, recursion is not like that bird song on Faimly Guy.
2021-06-21 14:21:11	xiaomiao	chazy: as far as I know, no, no other reserved space
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2021-06-21 14:21:58	omegatron	recursion means (in this context) some process or function which spawns/calls itself again, therefore eating up all your available memory/resources
2021-06-21 14:22:03	ananke	rannnn8888: limits. ulimits
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2021-06-21 14:22:42	rannnn8888	omegatron what i need do? its only rebot the serrver ?
2021-06-21 14:22:47	ananke	rannnn8888: but without knowing specifics of what was in place before, and what you did, and what you're doing to see this message, we can only guess
2021-06-21 14:22:48	rannnn8888	or have other way ?
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2021-06-21 14:22:58	ananke	rannnn8888: what are you actually doing?
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2021-06-21 14:23:24	rannnn8888	ananke i run python script before :x
2021-06-21 14:23:36	rannnn8888	i use in while true
2021-06-21 14:23:50	rannnn8888	maybe hi save data on the memory for loop
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2021-06-21 14:23:55	omegatron	it was just a wild guess on my side, before you supplied any more useful details of the nature of the problem
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2021-06-21 14:24:09	omegatron	without seeing any code or such, I can only guess
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2021-06-21 14:24:13	msiism	rannnn8888: And does that loop have break condition?
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2021-06-21 14:24:33	Guest14	hello everybody
2021-06-21 14:24:53	msiism	rannnn8888: I mean, you are aware that `while true…` makes an unconditional loop, right?
2021-06-21 14:24:59	rannnn8888	msiism no i want he run all time i use while true and sleep 5 sec
2021-06-21 14:25:20	msiism	I see.
2021-06-21 14:25:45	msiism	rannnn8888: Well, as omegatron said, you'd have to be more specific and provide some code.
2021-06-21 14:26:09	Guest14	i have problem with bind9 i can ping ns1.example.com and when i browse ns1.example.com i see my welcome page of nginx but i dont have ping of example.com and when i browse it i can see nothing
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2021-06-21 14:26:24	rannnn8888	its use multi threds in the loop maybe hi save data for on llop in memory
2021-06-21 14:26:33	rannnn8888	but now i need rebot the server ?
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2021-06-21 14:26:47	rannnn8888	or can cheack what the problem for know to next time
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2021-06-21 14:27:05	Guest14	its my config file https://codeshare.io/X8Ab9k
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2021-06-21 14:27:26	omegatron	rannnn8888: can you start any program at all?  like  "ps ax"  ?
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2021-06-21 14:28:12	omegatron	Guest14: wrong channel - try either some bind or dns channel or the one of your distribution ..
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2021-06-21 14:30:36	rannnn8888	omegatron No get same -bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory
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2021-06-21 14:31:45	bewees	is someone running linux on riscv already?
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2021-06-21 14:32:19	c705	i saw someone had full blown gnome on risc yesterday
2021-06-21 14:32:39	bewees	i saw that they're selling a riscv soc on aliexpress since this month, but not sure if its any good
2021-06-21 14:32:42	bewees	nice
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2021-06-21 14:35:06	bewees	did he mention if he run it on a dev board or soc?
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2021-06-21 14:35:51	Trieste	I saw a RISC-V CPU whose design apparently fit on a t-shirt lol, dunno how that's supposed to work
2021-06-21 14:36:19	c705	idk
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2021-06-21 14:37:14	Bocaneri	c705, "idk"? }:<
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2021-06-21 14:37:33	c705	sorry daddy
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2021-06-21 14:37:44	daddy	👀
2021-06-21 14:38:06	omegatron	rannnn8888: ok, if you cannot run any process anymore (asuming that your infinite loop would still try to spawn processes), the easy solution would be to restart your machine
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2021-06-21 14:51:25	draeath	Bocaneri: ... "I don't know"
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2021-06-21 14:51:40	Bocaneri	Very funny, mullet.
2021-06-21 14:52:08	draeath	"mullet" - now that's a new one
2021-06-21 14:52:20	Sayona	Hello, Fedora or Ubuntu as desktop?
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2021-06-21 14:52:52	draeath	if I say 'rpm' or 'deb' does that bring to you any sort of emotional response?
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2021-06-21 14:53:31	Sayona	Ș))
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2021-06-21 14:53:38	Sayona	:))
2021-06-21 14:53:53	ananke	Sayona: try both, decide for yourself
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2021-06-21 14:54:41	Sayona	:(
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2021-06-21 14:55:50	chazy	xiaomiao: thanks, then do you know why `df -h` doesn't show the expected total space? if i convert the total blocks (from either `fdisk -l` or `tune2fs`) to bytes and then to gib i get 16764 gib, then i reserve 0.19... (33 GiB) so total usable should be 16731gib but `df -BG` says i only have 16697G in total, why? :( i did the math to get the reserved % cuz i need all those gigs to be usable
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2021-06-21 14:56:46	ananke	chazy: there's also filesystem overhead
2021-06-21 14:56:52	xiaomiao	chazy: did you account for the space taken by inodes and other metadata?
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2021-06-21 14:57:10	chazy	isn't the reserved space supposed to store inodes and metadata?
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2021-06-21 14:57:39	xiaomiao	no
2021-06-21 14:57:41	Dagmar	Nope
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2021-06-21 14:58:11	chazy	then i guess i can just set reserved % to 0 since the disk will be mounted in read-only once it's full...
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2021-06-21 14:58:37	Dagmar	That's actually perfectly reasonable
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2021-06-21 14:58:50	ananke	chazy: reserved space for extN is simply space that can be consumed only by uid 0
2021-06-21 14:58:53	chazy	maybe i should defrag it first
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2021-06-21 14:59:01	Dagmar	Also, filesystems that are just being given to one user (or nothing but normal users) can generally also have that reserved space reduced to zero
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2021-06-21 14:59:15	xiaomiao	chazy: alternatively, a filesystem like xfs might be marginally more efficient for this usecase as it doesn't have fixed inode size like ext4
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2021-06-21 14:59:31	xiaomiao	and/or be crazy and use something like zfs that could do compression/deduplication
2021-06-21 14:59:31	Dagmar	...and for really big filesystems you can generally trim that down to a smaller percentage
2021-06-21 14:59:40	xiaomiao	always depends on the level of pain you have :)
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2021-06-21 15:00:00	Dagmar	Like a 22Tb filesystem maybe doesn't need 1.1 terabytes reserved for root
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2021-06-21 15:00:28	Dagmar	You mgiht want to reconsider having 22Tb worth of eggs in one basket, but that's a separate issue
2021-06-21 15:00:40	chazy	are there 22tb drives? :P
2021-06-21 15:00:43	chazy	i could only find 18TB
2021-06-21 15:00:46	Dagmar	No but there's 22Tb arrays
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2021-06-21 15:02:32	draeath	chazy: it doesn't apply to ext* but just so you know, if you ever use a copy-on-write (CoW) filesystem (btrfs, zfs, etc) and you run out of space, it's not as simple as just zapping a few things to make room - waiting for it to hit 0% is bad times
2021-06-21 15:02:53	Dagmar	The main place the reserved space for root comes in handy is when root has to login to fix a disk full condition and there's things expecting to generate temporary files involved
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2021-06-21 15:03:26	Dagmar	...or things that are maybe trying to send out panicky warning emails and do so by _writing the email to a file_ and then handing that to the mail system
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2021-06-21 15:04:08	Dagmar	It's sort of like tellign the kids they can't eat _all_ the cookies.
2021-06-21 15:04:31	Dagmar	Unless you throw 5% of the cookies in a locked safe, your'e probbaly not getting any cookies when you need them
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2021-06-21 15:04:58	chazy	hmm i don't need any temp file or anything in this disk, it's literally just fill it and then only read from it
2021-06-21 15:05:14	Dagmar	Yeah then you can turn that down to zero for sure
2021-06-21 15:05:17	chazy	does it really need some free space?
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2021-06-21 15:05:58	Dagmar	IMagine the fun that transpires if you fill / completely
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2021-06-21 15:06:04	Dagmar	No more room for pid files.
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2021-06-21 15:06:10	Dagmar	No more room for unix sockets.
2021-06-21 15:06:17	Dagmar	Many luls will be had.
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2021-06-21 15:07:01	xiaomiao	Dagmar: but we moved everything to /run so we could do such silly things ;)
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2021-06-21 15:07:21	Dagmar	Yeah see, some of us don't get into that whole hubris thing
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2021-06-21 15:08:04	Dagmar	It's really just trading one risk for a different risk there
2021-06-21 15:08:14	xiaomiao	imagine my amusement about /tmp as tmpfs
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2021-06-21 15:08:32	Dagmar	Oh yeah that's an endless source of late night sweats for me
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2021-06-21 15:08:57	Dagmar	Like, "f**k it.  I'm just allocating 1Tb for /tmp here"
2021-06-21 15:09:07	xiaomiao	luckily I have so far been able to avoid this trap
2021-06-21 15:09:08	darkstone	Hello everyone. I am here by referral. I'm having a problem with my Ubuntu that I very much hope is a software issue (but fear is a hardware one).
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2021-06-21 15:09:35	darkstone	I'll happily wait until conversation changes and I can have a turn. :)
2021-06-21 15:09:50	Dagmar	No, it sounds like your problem might be interesting
2021-06-21 15:09:53	chazy	uhm can rune2fs be bugged? it says lifetime writes 8TB but there's 15TB of stuff in there
2021-06-21 15:10:02	chazy	tune2fs*
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2021-06-21 15:10:05	rascul	darkstone usually it's best to start with the problem
2021-06-21 15:10:19	darkstone	Ah, roger that.
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2021-06-21 15:11:19	darkstone	A few days ago my laptop took a hard knock, and later that day I started getting messages about the hard drive health status changing. The computer gradually slowed down, I started getting "bus errors" on trying to open things and ordinarily stable programs were crashing. Two days ago the screen just kicked to its terminal and started printing errors.
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2021-06-21 15:12:21	darkstone	Looked related to the hard drive, and its other errors had seemed hard drive-related as well. Tried to reboot and it kicked to grub instead. Able to boot using a live Ubuntu, ran fsck, it fixed errors and came up clean but when I tried again to boot from HDD, it failed with similar errors.
2021-06-21 15:12:24	Dagmar	Run smartctl -a /dev/diskname as root
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2021-06-21 15:12:42	darkstone	From the live okay?
2021-06-21 15:12:48	Dagmar	It's probably logged a suprising number of broken sectors
2021-06-21 15:12:49	Dagmar	Yes
2021-06-21 15:13:03	Dagmar	That thing queries the electronics on a modern disk and makes it fess up what it knows
2021-06-21 15:13:19	rascul	quite possible that "hard knock" damaged the hard disk
2021-06-21 15:13:27	Dagmar	chazy: You sure there's not some sparse files involved?
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2021-06-21 15:13:36	pyzozord	hey, anyone using mailutils?
2021-06-21 15:13:38	Dagmar	Maybe some hardlinks
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2021-06-21 15:14:09	darkstone	Yeah, I've kind of thought it was a physical damage. I'm kind of hopeless when it comes to hardware, my skills all lie in the software side of things.
2021-06-21 15:14:09	pyzozord	im curious does it have some kind of notification feature? how do you now if you have mail?
2021-06-21 15:14:10	Dagmar	rascul: yeah I'm figuring it might have bounced a head off the platter surface, or that the teeny weeny amp on the armature is now coming loose
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2021-06-21 15:14:41	rascul	spinning rust is fragile
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2021-06-21 15:14:58	darkstone	One moment, battling apt
2021-06-21 15:15:07	Dagmar	darkstone: You're looking for these things... Reallocated_Sector_Ct, Current_Pending_Sector, and Current_Pending_Sector
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2021-06-21 15:15:17	Dagmar	er... Offline_Uncorrectable
2021-06-21 15:15:27	Dagmar	Those counters are _generally_ exactly as read
2021-06-21 15:15:31	darkstone	Should I unmount the problem drive first?
2021-06-21 15:15:34	darkstone	Or keep it mounted?
2021-06-21 15:15:42	Dagmar	some of the others are subject to whatever crazy thing the manufacturer decided to do with them
2021-06-21 15:15:54	Dagmar	It doesn't need to be unmounted for that or I'd have said so
2021-06-21 15:16:00	Dagmar	-a just queries the disk about what it already knows
2021-06-21 15:16:02	darkstone	I should note that GSmartControl failed to scan the disk on either scan mode. It reached 10% and reported read error.
2021-06-21 15:16:17	Dagmar	Yeah youll see the results of those tests near the bottom of the log output
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2021-06-21 15:17:18	Dagmar	For Offline_Uncorrectable if the number way over on the right under RAW_VALUE is a small number (< 10) things are generally okay, although the majority of the time wiht a healthy disk it'll just be zero
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2021-06-21 15:18:00	darkstone	Current_Pending_Sector is 38, Offline_Uncorrectable is 0, Reallocated_Sector_Ct is 0.
2021-06-21 15:18:07	Dagmar	That number is the count of sectors where the drive suspected a sector was bad, attempted to write to it again and noticed it didn't get the same thing back so it just "hides" the sector and uses a spare one whenever you try to read it
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2021-06-21 15:18:25	Dagmar	OKay so you have 38 sectors where the drive tried to read the sector and got a checksum failure
2021-06-21 15:18:32	Dagmar	The disk may or may not be permanently damaged
2021-06-21 15:18:48	Dagmar	...but right now, every time the OS tries to read them the disk is going to throw an error message
2021-06-21 15:18:57	rascul	i would probably toss it anyway, replace with ssd
2021-06-21 15:18:59	Dagmar	Step #1.  BACK YOUR STUFF UP
2021-06-21 15:19:10	rob`	Step #2: CUT A HOLE IN THE BOX
2021-06-21 15:19:16	Dagmar	Step #2: NO REALLY, BACK YOUR STUFF UP.
2021-06-21 15:19:43	darkstone	A friend of mine bought me a cloud storage drive big enough to fit my entire blasted drive on it, I intend to put it all there.
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2021-06-21 15:19:48	Dagmar	...because step #3 is brutal.  You run the self-test and make a note of the sector number it says has failed and ended the test.
2021-06-21 15:20:05	Dagmar	THen you use dd to target that _specific_ sector (and probably the 15 that follow it) and overwrite them with zeros
2021-06-21 15:20:17	darkstone	ooooooooof
2021-06-21 15:20:19	Dagmar	IF the disk is actually okay, you'll see that pending count go down
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2021-06-21 15:20:38	Dagmar	If that part of the platter really is damaged, pending will still go down, but Offline Uncorrectables will go up
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2021-06-21 15:21:08	Dagmar	You back you stuff up because while you're probably not getting that data back, if you mistype hte sector numbers... congratulations you just blew a hole in some random file on your sisk
2021-06-21 15:21:11	Dagmar	er disk
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2021-06-21 15:21:20	Dagmar	Also you can be lazy and just zero the entire drive
2021-06-21 15:21:24	darkstone	So basically the data on any damaged area is kaput no matter what I do.
2021-06-21 15:21:29	Dagmar	Yes
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2021-06-21 15:21:33	darkstone	I kinda figured that.
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2021-06-21 15:21:46	darkstone	At least none of what I regularly use and consider very important seems to be damaged so ar.
2021-06-21 15:21:48	darkstone	*far
2021-06-21 15:22:02	Dagmar	There's also the possibliity that the problem isn't with the platters, but with a tiny pcb attached to the armature that's a signal amplifier
2021-06-21 15:22:14	Dagmar	If it starts to come off the armature, you'll get read/write errors
2021-06-21 15:22:20	Dagmar	THey will be all over the place, too
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2021-06-21 15:22:46	darkstone	If it helps, the first time I hit any error (when it went to terminal randomly), it was reporting the same sector with each subsequent read attempt.
2021-06-21 15:22:52	darkstone	It had snagged on one spot and was trying over and over.
2021-06-21 15:23:09	Dagmar	So like, back yer stuff up now, and as dumb as this sounds, if it's the little amp, you can sometimes get it workign again by sticking it in the freezer
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2021-06-21 15:23:17	darkstone	...o.o
2021-06-21 15:23:28	Dagmar	Give it 20-30 minutes to get nice and cold and hten start doing your reads again
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2021-06-21 15:23:41	Trieste	haha
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2021-06-21 15:23:46	Trieste	Dagmar is right though
2021-06-21 15:23:50	darkstone	How to fix computer: Insert it in the freezer.
2021-06-21 15:24:00	Dagmar	Things will shrink just neough that a hairline fracture _might_ close enough to keep going for now
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2021-06-21 15:24:09	kfrench	I thought the freezer trick only worked on disks that refused to spin up - not read errors.
2021-06-21 15:24:15	Dagmar	Not the whole computer, just the drive
2021-06-21 15:24:29	darkstone	Ah, that's easier.
2021-06-21 15:24:37	Dagmar	...although it won't exactly hurt the computer, most don't really have the space for a full tower _and_ ice cream
2021-06-21 15:24:48	rascul	it's a laptop i think
2021-06-21 15:24:55	darkstone	We have a full fridge-sized freezer downstairs, and plenty of room even in the one upstairs.
2021-06-21 15:24:58	darkstone	But yes, it is a laptop.
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2021-06-21 15:25:17	darkstone	If it won't harm it at all, it would probably fit.
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2021-06-21 15:25:45	Trieste	btw any opinions on https://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/ ? Sounds like a good fit for these situations
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2021-06-21 15:26:02	Adoi	in a brief yet every bit regrettable unavoidable exposure to windows, I felt sorry for the humanity again, enduring this pile of shit
2021-06-21 15:26:03	Dagmar	darkstone: Basically, the drive tried to read an affected sector and the ecc checksum for that sector (or group) didn't match, so it'll usually stop a moment and try again, for a dozen times or whateevr and then it sends an error message to the OS and marks the sector as Pending
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2021-06-21 15:26:35	darkstone	It sat there for more than a dozen times I think? If the log file for that still exists I could check.
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2021-06-21 15:26:50	Dagmar	Trieste: ddrescue is great.  It's thorough and it's free and the next step up the ladder usually involves paying someone a few thousand dollars to rent some time with their Deepspar
2021-06-21 15:27:36	 *	Trieste nods sagely while googling Deepspar
2021-06-21 15:27:40	Dagmar	It can even mostly work around busted cache memory on a drive.  That's why it has the bizarre option to read the drive in reverse sector order
2021-06-21 15:27:55	Dagmar	That option is otehrwise useless and very slow
2021-06-21 15:28:38	Dagmar	Most drives won't read just _one_ sector.  If they've got no other requests pending, they'll read the requested sector and then the next however many sectors until the cache is full up
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2021-06-21 15:29:01	darkstone	Found the initial error I believe, if anyone wants me to termbin it.
2021-06-21 15:29:07	Dagmar	Since your next request are usually for those following sectors , this is great, but if the latter half of the cache memory is corrupted, the drive will happily serve those requests out of the _corrupted cache_
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2021-06-21 15:29:36	Dagmar	...but if youre' telling it to read backwards, only the first part of the internal cache gets involved
2021-06-21 15:29:44	Trieste	that's clever
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2021-06-21 15:29:48	Dagmar	Slow as hell, but effective
2021-06-21 15:30:42	[twisti]	i have a bunch of files like name.ext and companion files like name-0.differentext. due to some fuckery, there are some cases where im missing either the original file or the companion file. can anyone think of a clever bash scripting trick to find those 'stragglers' before i get out the big guns of actually programming something for this ?
2021-06-21 15:30:46	Dagmar	darkstone: After you've zeroed the disk (or at least shotgunned enough that Pending Sectors is now zero) you can run the "long" smart test with htat same tool
2021-06-21 15:30:46	Trieste	holy moly these Deepspar gadgets sound amazing but are pricey
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2021-06-21 15:31:02	Dagmar	Trieste: They're freakin' awesome and yes they are _very_ pricey
2021-06-21 15:31:48	Dagmar	darkstone: Basically you'll jsut go `smartctl -t long /dev/whatevs` and it will tell you a large number of seconds to wait, and you'll just leave the thing alone and powered up while it goes and checks every sector on the disk.
2021-06-21 15:32:07	Dagmar	darkstone: When that tiem has elapsed, you just read the log with smartctl -a again
2021-06-21 15:32:13	darkstone	So open a new terminal for that, or just wander off and sit under a tree.
2021-06-21 15:32:25	Dagmar	Why not both?
2021-06-21 15:32:31	AppAraat[m]	hi, so this is the ##linux equivalent on Libera? Because AFAIK a singular # was meant for official project IRC channels.
2021-06-21 15:32:35	darkstone	Because it's rainig? XD
2021-06-21 15:32:49	Trieste	sounds like the right mood for data recovery
2021-06-21 15:32:53	Dagmar	You could actually start the long test now.  It says it's an "offline" test but typically they sort of run in the background.  Doing other things with the disk just slows down the process
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2021-06-21 15:33:02	Dagmar	AppAraat[m]: yes.
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2021-06-21 15:33:26	darkstone	Now, before zeroing the bad sectors?
2021-06-21 15:33:28	Trieste	[twisti]: err, sed, grep, uniq...?
2021-06-21 15:33:33	darkstone	Because I haven't gotten everything backed up yet.
2021-06-21 15:33:36	AppAraat[m]	cool
2021-06-21 15:33:47	darkstone	I was told to backup my most important things first, and my brain snagged on what exactly that would be.
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2021-06-21 15:33:52	darkstone	And it's still snagged.
2021-06-21 15:34:02	[twisti]	Trieste: yes, those are tools i would imagine could come into play in such a script :D
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2021-06-21 15:34:25	Trieste	[twisti]: nah it could reasonably be a one-liner (that I can't provide because I don't know the filenames)
2021-06-21 15:34:48	<--	ausserz (~ausserz@user/ausserz) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 15:34:49	Trieste	[twisti]: uniq has an option to only output unique lines; if you manage to "normalize" your filenames (with sed) so that both versions result in the same output, you could get your missing files
2021-06-21 15:34:50	[twisti]	the filenames are bla.jpg and bla-0.yaml
2021-06-21 15:35:09	[twisti]	where bla is a mix of the date as numbers, IMG_xxx, and so on
2021-06-21 15:35:10	darkstone	How would I tell if the test is already done? Because it gave 100 minutes, but like I said, GSmartControl gave the same estimation... then took 10 seconds to tell me it completed with read error.
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2021-06-21 15:35:33	Dagmar	That's how long it took to plow face first into a broken sector
2021-06-21 15:35:43	[twisti]	ah, i didntk now about that feature of uniq, ill look into that
2021-06-21 15:35:46	darkstone	It didn't take long. XD
2021-06-21 15:35:54	Dagmar	Down at the end of the output of smartctl -a you'll see the results of the last four test attempts
2021-06-21 15:36:14	Dagmar	THe "short" test just does a basic board and armature test, and is pretty quick
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2021-06-21 15:36:22	Dagmar	The "long" test is the one that does the full surface scan
2021-06-21 15:36:51	Dagmar	GSmartControl might have just started the short test, saw that the drive is already reporting bad sectors and decided that was enough detail
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2021-06-21 15:37:09	Trieste	[twisti]: if you just need the "base", it could suffice to just `sed -Ee 's/(-0)?\.(jpg|yaml)$//'` which removes either suffix, then pipe that into uniq, voila
2021-06-21 15:37:11	darkstone	Yeah, it's plowing face first into a bad sector after about 10 seconds.
2021-06-21 15:37:27	darkstone	# 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       90%     11213         31354808
2021-06-21 15:37:27	Trieste	(disclaimer, not 100% if that sed command actually works)
2021-06-21 15:37:29	darkstone	^most recent
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2021-06-21 15:37:56	Dagmar	Fun
2021-06-21 15:38:07	darkstone	It's hitting the same one every time.
2021-06-21 15:38:10	Dagmar	Well, you now know the address of your first victim sector
2021-06-21 15:38:30	Dagmar	Make your backups because ther'es no telling how many sectors are actually affected
2021-06-21 15:38:37	darkstone	I've been using Linux for about 3 years now, but never had to do anything like this. I have no idea how to zero a sector.
2021-06-21 15:38:42	darkstone	Should I just shove the entire drive into the cloud?
2021-06-21 15:38:49	darkstone	And dispense with 'wait, what do I consider most important'?
2021-06-21 15:39:01	darkstone	('Course it'll hiccup on the bad areas, but eh, those are gone anyway)
2021-06-21 15:39:02	Dagmar	dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 offset=31354808 count=1
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2021-06-21 15:39:30	Dagmar	Basically like that, but you'll have to repeat the process with every bad sector (which is a pain in the butt)
2021-06-21 15:39:48	 *	darkstone writes a script that does that to whatever $1 was
2021-06-21 15:39:52	Trieste	[twisti]: if you also need the extension of the missing file, well I'd use a script - specifically just a for loop - for each "basename" (e.g. bla), check whether $basename.jpg exists, check whether $basename-0.yml exists, etc
2021-06-21 15:39:53	gimmemahlulz	.сдщыу
2021-06-21 15:40:19	Dagmar	darkstone: Well, after about 30-40 there's not much point in continuing
2021-06-21 15:40:21	gimmemahlulz	woops. that moment when you try to "/close" but your keyboard is in russian mode
2021-06-21 15:40:29	Trieste	blyat
2021-06-21 15:40:30	[twisti]	Trieste: ls 'dir/$(basename $straggler).*' :D
2021-06-21 15:40:39	Dagmar	darkstone: 'cuz it ain't going to be just 45-50 of them
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2021-06-21 15:40:47	darkstone	more like 100?
2021-06-21 15:40:47	Trieste	[twisti]: not sure I understand
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2021-06-21 15:40:55	Dagmar	It'll be _LOTS_ of bad sectors generally, with more showing up every time you run a new full scan
2021-06-21 15:40:57	darkstone	I'm willing to sit here and do 100. I doubt I can afford a new drive.
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2021-06-21 15:41:17	[twisti]	Trieste: that finds the unique file, no matter what extension it has
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2021-06-21 15:41:33	darkstone	I won't go into our woes right now, but I will say that the only income in this household is survivor's benefits and disability.
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2021-06-21 15:41:38	Trieste	isn't there a tool to do it automatically Dagmar?
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2021-06-21 15:42:03	Dagmar	Trieste: THere's a "if you can you don't need" thing going on with this
2021-06-21 15:42:18	[twisti]	anyways, i got it working, so thank you very much
2021-06-21 15:42:24	Dagmar	Trieste: The people who know how to do it, "just do it" or zero the whole disk, or just chuck the disk because it's a bother
2021-06-21 15:42:38	Trieste	[twisti]: ah sure, that wouldn't work for the '.foo/-0.bar' case but there you go :)
2021-06-21 15:42:40	Dagmar	Trieste: ...but let's say you write a shell script that does this and you put it on Github
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2021-06-21 15:42:59	Trieste	Dagmar: right, it's just the repetitiveness that makes me wonder
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2021-06-21 15:43:10	[twisti]	ah right, thats not regexp
2021-06-21 15:43:21	darkstone	We coders do tend to write thingies to make our life easier after about 10 repeats of the same thing.
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2021-06-21 15:43:29	Dagmar	Trieste: SOMEONE is going to run this on their priceless and irreplaceable baby pictures or their quarterly financials and will not have read any of the documentation.  They will be throwing a tantrum because no one warned them it was going to erase data
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2021-06-21 15:43:43	<--	MrElendig (~Urist@archlinux/op/MrElendig) has quit (Quit: setting you up the bomb)
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2021-06-21 15:44:17	Dagmar	Suddenly the thing that saved that guy 10-20 minutes of time has now been nullified by someone throwing a tantrum on a forum, threatening lawsuites, etc etc
2021-06-21 15:44:25	Dagmar	Life's too short.
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2021-06-21 15:44:47	Dagmar	Someone who is willing to demand payment for it can deal with that nonsensde.
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2021-06-21 15:44:51	Trieste	isn't that what the "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED WITH NO WARRANTY" section in licenses is for? :P
2021-06-21 15:44:54	Trieste	(I jest)
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2021-06-21 15:45:20	darkstone	I suppose you can't fully idiot proof anything. There's always going to be an idiot who will find their way around it.
2021-06-21 15:45:31	<--	Camilo (~hugh@80-42-5-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-21 15:45:39	Dagmar	...and you know, nevermind that such a thing would just target sectors that were already useless.
2021-06-21 15:45:49	Dagmar	It was "your" software, ergo "your" fault.
2021-06-21 15:46:09	[twisti]	Trieste: i ended up with (not the most elegant): `ls raw-pos | sed 's/\-0\.yaml//' | sed 's/\.je*pg//I' | uniq -u | xargs -I{} find raw-pos -name "{}*"`
2021-06-21 15:46:44	[twisti]	now an additional `-delete` after i confirm that those are actually the right files and all will be well
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2021-06-21 15:47:05	Trieste	no shame in chaining sed invocations :P btw I recommend https://regexr.com/
2021-06-21 15:47:38	darkstone	Dagmar: so basically after I backup the entire drive, just repeatedly run short tests and zero each bad sector and watch to see if the count is going down?
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2021-06-21 15:47:40	[twisti]	yeah i didnt want to bother working out a combined version for a one off command
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2021-06-21 15:48:37	Dagmar	darkstone: Yeah basically.  It's not complex... it's just very tedious
2021-06-21 15:49:04	darkstone	I'm okay with tedious. This computer has been my world since COVID became a thing. There's not much I won't do to get it back.
2021-06-21 15:49:10	darkstone	Thank you.
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2021-06-21 15:49:30	Dagmar	darkstone: Since sectors are generally quietly organized into groups of sectors on the disk, you'll probably notice right off your first bad sector will also fail the next 7 or 15 sectors
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2021-06-21 15:49:34	darkstone	And again, is there a problem with just lobbing the entire /dev/sda2 into my cloud indiscriminantly? I'm finding it far too difficult to decide what to add 'first'.
2021-06-21 15:49:45	Dagmar	And you WILL need to do a full fsck on any filesystems after this
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2021-06-21 15:50:10	Dagmar	darkstone: No there's no major problem with just uploading the whole filesystem to a hosted server somewhere
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2021-06-21 15:50:17	Trieste	also check out testdisk/photorec in case you don't know them already darkstone
2021-06-21 15:50:22	darkstone	Sweet.
2021-06-21 15:50:26	darkstone	I don't know them, what are they?
2021-06-21 15:50:33	Dagmar	...unless you've got noods in there, which you should probably just delete
2021-06-21 15:50:36	Trieste	(going to be useful once you get the image though)
2021-06-21 15:50:48	Dagmar	darkstone: They're for extreme cases
2021-06-21 15:51:02	Dagmar	darkstone: Like when the file directory tree has been corrupted obliterated
2021-06-21 15:51:12	darkstone	Ooof
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2021-06-21 15:51:25	Trieste	yeah, they look for fragments of filesystems or just file headers
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2021-06-21 15:51:45	Dagmar	darkstone: Imagine for a moment that you have a large hardcover book in your hand.  Now imaging that you use an electric hacksaw to chop the spine right off the thing.  Now throw that high into the air.
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2021-06-21 15:51:53	Trieste	the "whole fs structure obliterated/unreadable" doesn't seem so far-fetched once you're blasting zeroes into random places though
2021-06-21 15:51:55	Dagmar	You still have your book.  It's all right there.
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2021-06-21 15:52:21	Dagmar	Photorec sort of recovers files like that.  No original filenames whatsoever.
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2021-06-21 15:52:30	autopsy	Dagmar, the man of analogies.
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2021-06-21 15:52:41	Dagmar	I've had to sift through that mess a few times
2021-06-21 15:52:47	darkstone	Good analogy
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2021-06-21 15:52:58	Trieste	yeah what Dagmar says; if you're looking for a specific paragraph (file), it may be the only thing left, but it's very much a last resort
2021-06-21 15:53:19	Dagmar	You jsut get a ton of directories which have files with extensions based on some assumptions made by looking _in_ the files, but it's otherwise just assembling chains of sectors together
2021-06-21 15:53:20	Trieste	although testdisk can also recover fs metadata without "chopping the spine off" no?
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2021-06-21 15:53:36	Dagmar	Oh yeah and on a windows machine that regularly does defragging?
2021-06-21 15:53:37	Dagmar	LOL
2021-06-21 15:53:48	Dagmar	It will recover the pieces of the files that were left around when they were defragmented.
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2021-06-21 15:53:55	Trieste	haha yeah
2021-06-21 15:54:11	darkstone	ew Windows.
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2021-06-21 15:54:37	darkstone	I've had more Windows computers kill their own OS than I've had Linux computers total.
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2021-06-21 15:54:50	Dagmar	Photorec isn't really sawing the spine off.  THat's mostly already happened, which is why you're down to photorec in the first place
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2021-06-21 15:55:02	Dagmar	...because someone "accidentally" formatted the disk
2021-06-21 15:55:39	Trieste	man I've had this windows machine that baasically corrupted my external (NTFS) hard drive filesystem like three separate times for NO GOOD REASON
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2021-06-21 15:55:54	darkstone	What version of Windows?
2021-06-21 15:55:57	Trieste	w10
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2021-06-21 15:56:20	Trieste	ended up using https://www.z-a-recovery.com/ and having to just copy all 4TB of the data to another hard drive, then copy them back
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2021-06-21 15:56:33	Trieste	after the third time I just gave up on it and didn't plug the drive into that machine anymore
2021-06-21 15:56:35	darkstone	Yeaaaah, haven't touched that nonsense yet. I was still using Windows XP in 2013.
2021-06-21 15:56:39	<--	wovixo (~wovixo@128.104.205.49) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-21 15:56:46	Dagmar	...or as with the case of my parents, the bloody rescue image went and dropped in a new partition table and formated that without mentioning what it was doing.
2021-06-21 15:57:06	autopsy	It got sneaky.
2021-06-21 15:57:11	Trieste	oh wow, that's a backstab
2021-06-21 15:57:17	darkstone	oof
2021-06-21 15:57:20	Dagmar	148,000 files, 38,000 or so of which were duplicates
2021-06-21 15:57:30	Dagmar	That was a fun week
2021-06-21 15:57:36	darkstone	It sounds it
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2021-06-21 15:58:09	darkstone	I've found that most Micro$oft programs are like my cousin: They go ahead and do what they think is best without asking you first, and it usually isn't best.
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2021-06-21 15:58:56	Codaraxis	The servers at my work use NIS. We just encountered a problem with one of the groups getting too long. I put in a value for MAX_MEMBERS_PER_GROUP into /etc/logins.def , which resolved the main problem that broke the user group by dividing the group across multiple entries, each with the same GID and group name. However, now tools like ypcat and "getent group" are no longer useful because they stop at the first instance of a given key. Is there a
2021-06-21 15:58:57	Codaraxis	workaround or is this just a cost of using something as old as NIS?
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2021-06-21 15:59:10	Trieste	that was always my worst nightmare, a tool like that just going ahead and nuking my data without asking
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2021-06-21 15:59:22	drip	it blew my mind when I had a windows install having problems with drivers and deciding to reinstall itself on a secondary name without any indication other than 'please wait'
2021-06-21 15:59:29	drip	err, secondary drive
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2021-06-21 15:59:41	Trieste	lmao, when was that drip?
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2021-06-21 16:00:05	Dagmar	Yeesh
2021-06-21 16:00:24	autopsy	It got hairy.
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2021-06-21 16:01:36	darkstone	So, to be clear (because I haven't slept much in the last few days and want to make sure I have everything 100%)
2021-06-21 16:01:43	darkstone	1. Shove my entire half-terabyte drive into the cloud
2021-06-21 16:01:49	<--	CoderBR_000 (~u0_a117@177.10.203.30) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-21 16:01:49	darkstone	2. Attempt a short scan
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2021-06-21 16:02:02	darkstone	3. Zero the sector that it faceplanted on
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2021-06-21 16:02:16	drip	a year or two ago, was restoring an image from different hardware.   i ended up imaging it again, fixing the drivers, and then it started up on the proper drive
2021-06-21 16:02:17	darkstone	4. Repeat 2 and 3 for as many iterations as my fingers can hold out
2021-06-21 16:02:24	darkstone	5. Run fsck again and pray
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2021-06-21 16:03:22	darkstone	Am I right?
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2021-06-21 16:04:12	 *	Trieste scratches his head
2021-06-21 16:04:38	Trieste	well I might be missing something but it seems you can't really do step 1 before 2-4 right?
2021-06-21 16:04:50	Trieste	can't shove it anywhere if you can't read it
2021-06-21 16:05:01	darkstone	Oh, I can read it. It just won't boot.
2021-06-21 16:05:20	darkstone	Everything I've tried to manually read has been fine, from the Live.
2021-06-21 16:05:34	Trieste	ahh okay, then disregard (:
2021-06-21 16:05:38	darkstone	But like, my entire ~/Documents/java folder seems to be fine
2021-06-21 16:05:53	darkstone	including the random Python files in the Java directory
2021-06-21 16:06:23	Trieste	although a SMART scan isn't really something you can do on a disk *image* either, but I didn't follow your entire discussion with Dagmar
2021-06-21 16:06:54	darkstone	In summary, the HDD in a laptop has suddenly started having read errors after the computer took physical damage, and two days ago the OS decided to not be a thing anymore.
2021-06-21 16:07:07	mckayshirou	If i modify a single byte of /proc/kcore on 32 bit system , the effects can shof up on real time? (even for milliseconds)
2021-06-21 16:07:13	mckayshirou	show*
2021-06-21 16:07:15	darkstone	But I can still mount and interact with the drive through Live.
2021-06-21 16:07:19	Trieste	or do you mean doing #1 just as a backup before doing the hand-blast-scan routine on the real hdd
2021-06-21 16:07:28	darkstone	Thatone.
2021-06-21 16:07:40	Trieste	yep I'm clear now
2021-06-21 16:07:44	darkstone	Backing it up before putting holes in things with a 0 Gun.
2021-06-21 16:08:22	Gustavo6046	Huff, I have an email and a forum private message to reply to, but I just don't feel like composing a reply for some reason
2021-06-21 16:08:22	Dagmar	mckayshirou: Yes but considering wht that represents you probably should not
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2021-06-21 16:09:31	mckayshirou	i know that is (very) dangerous and minuscule, but i can pull of it
2021-06-21 16:09:32	darkstone	Gustavo6046: just don't do what I did and fail to ever reply.
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2021-06-21 16:11:37	darkstone	Is there no tool/program/method to try to read each one and return a list of the sectors that read bad?
2021-06-21 16:11:49	ananke	badblocks
2021-06-21 16:11:52	Trieste	badblocks
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2021-06-21 16:12:10	darkstone	I read somewhere that badblocks could damage data if the drive were actually bad, but I couldn't find anything else to substantiate that.
2021-06-21 16:12:46	ananke	FUD
2021-06-21 16:12:51	darkstone	FUD?
2021-06-21 16:12:56	Gustavo6046	Fearmongering, basically.
2021-06-21 16:13:04	ananke	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt
2021-06-21 16:13:06	Dagmar	badblocks isn't doing anything fancy
2021-06-21 16:13:06	darkstone	How kind humans are.
2021-06-21 16:13:19	darkstone	I half-suspected that to be the case. Thanks.
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2021-06-21 16:13:32	darkstone	So could I iterate over each block it returned and zero them in a script?
2021-06-21 16:13:37	Dagmar	...but if the drive is bad because some pieces have broken off inside, you'll just be scrubbing the surface off hte platter by not turning it over to a data recovery firm for $$$
2021-06-21 16:13:37	Trieste	well technically any interaction with a "bad hard drive" can result in breaking it even further (or not just spinning up again), but that's about it I think
2021-06-21 16:13:40	rudi_s	darkstone: However, using a disk with known badblocks is a bad idea.
2021-06-21 16:14:03	Dagmar	badblocks is basically not relevant for modern hard disks, especially now that SMART exists
2021-06-21 16:14:18	rudi_s	*because this often means that the disk is at the end of its lifetime and will start loosing more sectors soon
2021-06-21 16:14:21	Dagmar	If you're so cursed as to be using floppies, then yeah there you can use badblocks
2021-06-21 16:14:35	Dagmar	...or maybe flash if you don't mind needlessly burning up write cycles.
2021-06-21 16:14:38	rudi_s	Dagmar: Sectors still die on modern hard disks
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2021-06-21 16:14:49	Dagmar	rudi_s: Yeah but not from running badblocks
2021-06-21 16:14:50	darkstone	rudi_s: The computer took a physical knock, it's pretty young otherwise
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2021-06-21 16:15:01	rudi_s	Dagmar: True
2021-06-21 16:15:06	<--	Haxxa (~Haxxa@122.199.47.41) has quit (Quit: Haxxa flies away.)
2021-06-21 16:15:12	Dagmar	rudi_s: ...and the SMART diagnostics are faster and more reliable.
2021-06-21 16:15:16	felco	when the disk start to fail like that, that means the smart thingy has no more free blocks provide a fix
2021-06-21 16:15:20	rudi_s	Dagmar: Sure
2021-06-21 16:15:22	Trieste	I find it really charming how one use-case of badblocks seemed to be that you can then pass the output to the filesystem (I think?) so that it avoids those sectors
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2021-06-21 16:15:39	Dagmar	Yeah for MFM/RLL drives that used to be somewhat relevant
2021-06-21 16:15:50	drip	ive had a few drives where badblocks were generated from a power event or a failing sata cable
2021-06-21 16:15:56	hodapp	back in the day(tm) the drives would just come with a paper list of bad sectors
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2021-06-21 16:16:00	drip	and once those blocks were re-written, they were fine for years
2021-06-21 16:16:11	rudi_s	I just wanted to menttion that when you get broken sectors (pending sectors on SMART) it's time to move your data of this disk.
2021-06-21 16:16:11	Dagmar	drip: "short" writes causing a failing checksum.  Zeroing those sectors _will_ fix them
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2021-06-21 16:16:18	darkstone	drip: Was writing to the block interrupted by a power failure?
2021-06-21 16:16:19	hodapp	drip: yeah, I had a dodgy SATA controller start generating errors left and right that ZFS caught
2021-06-21 16:16:24	hodapp	luckily, on a redundant pool
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2021-06-21 16:16:51	Guest23	Hello
2021-06-21 16:16:55	darkstone	rudi_s: I wish I could, but we can barely afford food eacn month, I doubt I can afford a replacement disk, at least not immediately.
2021-06-21 16:16:56	Guest23	What does it mean to mount boot inside /mnt?
2021-06-21 16:17:00	drip	darkstone: i assume so on one of them because they showed up right after a power loss
2021-06-21 16:17:04	Dagmar	My wife's desktop developed a softfail sector due to a power outage that was right in the middle of the damn NTFS security descriptors
2021-06-21 16:17:12	ananke	Guest23: that question needs actual context
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2021-06-21 16:17:20	drip	but of course the first advice i read was that the drive was toast and i should throw it away
2021-06-21 16:17:28	Dagmar	Windows 10 is so great at hiding problems it would just start running chkdsk on each boot trying to fix things, and made it worse and worse and worse
2021-06-21 16:17:31	jim	Guest23, hi
2021-06-21 16:17:33	rudi_s	darkstone: :-/
2021-06-21 16:17:55	Guest23	ananke: I'm trying to restore /dev/sda1 because I accidentally formatted it and the steps are to bind-mount /{dev,proc,sys} inside /mnt and then mount /boot inside /mnt
2021-06-21 16:17:58	darkstone	Yeah, we're a hard luck case-type of family XD
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2021-06-21 16:18:18	rudi_s	Just be careful not to zero important file structures of the file system when you clear pending sectors.
2021-06-21 16:18:38	Guest23	jim: Hello
2021-06-21 16:18:40	Dagmar	Guest23: Unless you were storing dark web secrets in /boot that seems a bit pointless
2021-06-21 16:18:46	TJ-	darkstone: are you aware of the tools in The Sleuth Kit? Specifically 'ifind' which should, with some assitance, enable you to identify the metadata structure or file that contains the bad sector(s)
2021-06-21 16:18:50	Guest23	Dagmar: what's pointless?
2021-06-21 16:18:56	Dagmar	rudi_s: It won't matter because they're already gone
2021-06-21 16:19:01	<--	Guest2843 (~Guest49@orangeisblack.ekir.de) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-21 16:19:10	Dagmar	Guest23: Mounting a filesystem that contains exactly zero user data
2021-06-21 16:19:16	darkstone	I'm not, I've never heard of it. I switched to Linux completely 2 years ago when Windows murdered itself on my main desktop, this is the first major recovery I'd had to do.
2021-06-21 16:19:30	Guest23	Dagmar: Sorry, I'm mounting root on /mnt first
2021-06-21 16:19:32	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:19:38	Dagmar	rudi_s: Once the sector is failing the checksum, you're not getting the drive to fess up to what's there again
2021-06-21 16:20:09	Dagmar	rudi_s: If it's _super duper_ impoortant, then it's time to unplug it, pack it carefully, and ship it to professionals with a large check encloseddxc
2021-06-21 16:20:14	rudi_s	Dagmar: Right, good point.
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2021-06-21 16:20:30	darkstone	And it all else fails I can reinstall Ubuntu and then shove my userdata back onto it (and set my settings back how I have them)
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2021-06-21 16:20:49	TJ-	darkstone: I do a lot of data-recovery/forensics. In your case I'd tend to work to identify the files that contain the bad physical blocks and determine whether they can be discarded or need some kind of capture of the surrounding readable sectors (that belong to the file(s)) before doing anything else
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2021-06-21 16:20:54	Guest23	Dagmar: I'll paste a story of what happened on some pastebin
2021-06-21 16:21:09	darkstone	Guest23: read topic about pastebin.
2021-06-21 16:21:18	Guest23	no worries darkstone
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2021-06-21 16:21:21	darkstone	:D
2021-06-21 16:21:28	Dagmar	If it was just sheer bad luck or an iffy write, then the drive MIGHT manage to get things read correctly, the checksum will pass, and you'll be good to go (but this is definitely a "you need to replace that drive" situation)
2021-06-21 16:21:52	Dagmar	If it was a short-write due to a power failure, the drive will read that sector the same way every time because the data itself is bad
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2021-06-21 16:22:43	darkstone	TJ-: That might be a bit beyond me, I'm not sure. I'd like to do whatever brings the best chance of the computer functioning again as close as possible to how it did before.
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2021-06-21 16:22:54	Dagmar	TJ-: Yeah I'd have advised that route but I can't for the life of me remember wtf tool maps a numbered sector to a file
2021-06-21 16:23:00	darkstone	I'm definitely willing to learn/do whatever's needed.
2021-06-21 16:23:03	TJ-	most drives the last decade or more, if you write zeros to a block, and the block is bad, will take that as a signal that it is OK to map the sector out
2021-06-21 16:23:12	Dagmar	...but the drive took a kinetic blow so... odds are it's dying now
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2021-06-21 16:23:32	darkstone	I'm gonna have to try to find a way to replace the drive, aren't I.
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2021-06-21 16:23:37	Dagmar	Probably
2021-06-21 16:23:40	darkstone	I have no flipping idea how I'm going to do that.
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2021-06-21 16:23:57	Dagmar	Well, in the meantime, externals are kinda cheap.
2021-06-21 16:24:06	Dagmar	You can actuallly run off a 32Gb thumbdrive pretty readily
2021-06-21 16:24:16	Dagmar	Give some plasma, buy a thumbdrive
2021-06-21 16:24:18	darkstone	I'm running live Linux off a 32GB drive rn
2021-06-21 16:24:27	TJ-	darkstone: I've had large drives like that where after identifying the damaged area and telling the drive to map the sectors as bad, have continued to have long lives. It depends on first identifying the extent of the damage and its likely cause
2021-06-21 16:24:31	Dagmar	WEll, you know you've got that option available
2021-06-21 16:24:38	darkstone	I'll probably end up digging into the money from my stimulus check, which was gonna go to getting my rotten teeth fixed
2021-06-21 16:24:39	-->	inisheer (~Inisheer@047-132-204-067.res.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 16:24:39	bewees	is it a bad idea connecting to my home linux box with a windows tablet? Im worried when i read this https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html
2021-06-21 16:24:52	inisheer	c
2021-06-21 16:25:03	Dagmar	darkstone: Teeth are waaay more expensive than $60 for a 250Gb hard drive
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2021-06-21 16:25:12	darkstone	500GB.
2021-06-21 16:25:21	darkstone	Which I'm using a lot of.
2021-06-21 16:25:23	-->	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 16:25:27	Dagmar	At least Prime day continues until tomorrow
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2021-06-21 16:26:02	darkstone	Tbh, I can still chew on the left side of my mouth. This Linux has been what has kept me sane through the pandemic and Mom's illness and all of everything else.
2021-06-21 16:26:10	immibis	darkstone: teeth are way more important than a hard drive too
2021-06-21 16:26:18	Trieste	err, right, I'd take care of that hardware first, the replacement procedure is kinda a hassle
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2021-06-21 16:26:45	immibis	bewees: connecting it is fine, just don't install anything from microsoft
2021-06-21 16:26:52	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@135.sub-97-44-1.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 16:27:14	Guest23	This is my story of how I Deleted my /boot... https://termbin.com/bfwq
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2021-06-21 16:27:21	immibis	bewees: the link is basically saying: windows is a virus.
2021-06-21 16:27:27	immibis	if you don't install windows, you're safe
2021-06-21 16:27:35	Dagmar	immibis: Sounds legit
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2021-06-21 16:27:39	darkstone	"Windows is a virus": I'd believe that
2021-06-21 16:27:43	Trieste	Sounds GNU
2021-06-21 16:28:02	<--	alzgh (~alzgh@216.155.158.214) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-21 16:28:13	bewees	immibis: but if i connect from a computer that has a virus to linux, then my linux could be compromised too :-)
2021-06-21 16:28:30	darkstone	Um, how are you going to connect from a Windows that has a Linux virus?
2021-06-21 16:28:40	darkstone	Windows is already allergic to running anything related to Linux.
2021-06-21 16:28:47	bewees	i wanted to avoid to buy an extra linux laptop to remotely connect to my home lan, so should I take that article seriously?
2021-06-21 16:28:50	Guest23	Dagmar: If you care for the story I have pasted it above
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2021-06-21 16:29:05	mckayshirou	the difference is that every "virus" needs permissions to accest thing, nothing like the big vulnerabilityes of windows
2021-06-21 16:29:46	Dagmar	Guest32: Wait, you only nuked the /boot partition and nothing else?
2021-06-21 16:29:50	Guest23	Dagmar: yeah
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2021-06-21 16:29:54	drip	Guest23: thats in the wrong order, you can't do #3 (mount /dev/sda1 aka /boot) before #7, where you mkfs on /dev/sda1
2021-06-21 16:30:09	Guest23	drip: oh nice catch!
2021-06-21 16:30:11	drip	you want to do #3 after #7, and its just mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot
2021-06-21 16:30:33	Dagmar	Guest23: Oh you're FINE then.  Yeah it makes sense you'll be mounting /boot within the chroot because basicallyl, you're just making the thing reinstall teh files that should be in /boot after you format it with a decent, root-fearing filesystem
2021-06-21 16:31:18	drip	err, im wrong, its after the chroot, so its just mount /dev/sda1 /boot
2021-06-21 16:31:28	Dagmar	Guest23: If you don't see an entry in /etc/fstab with the UUID for /boot, ignore that step and just use the normal slice name (/dev/sda1) like you're used to
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2021-06-21 16:32:13	Guest23	so I can ignore dev proc sys?
2021-06-21 16:32:21	Dagmar	Well, no.  You want to do those stesp
2021-06-21 16:32:22	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:32:30	Dagmar	They're important when it comes to things like dracut
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2021-06-21 16:32:52	Guest23	Ok good, I misread your message
2021-06-21 16:33:08	Dagmar	I'm not sure that's involved with this, but under some scenarious you could wind up with a new initrd that contains support for the following drivers: "LOL you noob"
2021-06-21 16:33:18	Dagmar	It doesn't boot very well.
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2021-06-21 16:33:50	Guest23	so what does it mean to mount boot inside mnt?
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2021-06-21 16:34:19	Guest23	chroot and then mount /dev/sda1 /boot?
2021-06-21 16:34:47	drip	yep, after you mkfs.ext4 on /dev/sda1 though
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2021-06-21 16:34:59	Dagmar	No, you should probably mount everythin into /mnt and THEN chroot into /mnt
2021-06-21 16:35:09	Guest23	OKay
2021-06-21 16:35:22	Dagmar	The order of those steps doesn't much matter, but it'll be less confusing
2021-06-21 16:35:34	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:35:43	DLange	or just copy /boot/** from a working Ubuntu
2021-06-21 16:35:45	Dagmar	You're just aiming to set things up in /mnt so that when you chroot to it, everything appears to be in it's "usual" place
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2021-06-21 16:35:53	DLange	will be good enough
2021-06-21 16:36:07	Dagmar	DLange: Yeah I thought about suggesting that and then thought... lord only knows what's in the grub config
2021-06-21 16:36:36	DLange	Dagmar: nothing update-grub2 wouldn't fix
2021-06-21 16:36:46	DLange	('cause the config is all in /etc)
2021-06-21 16:36:46	<--	CrustY (~crusty@45.135.187.80) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:36:47	Dagmar	Ah doon' trust it
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2021-06-21 16:36:54	Dagmar	It _or_ dracut
2021-06-21 16:36:56	Guest23	alright we're going for it!
2021-06-21 16:37:21	Guest23	Final take: https://termbin.com/4aqi
2021-06-21 16:37:52	Guest23	Can I run these commands while running Quassel IRC on liveCD?
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2021-06-21 16:38:39	DLange	yes
2021-06-21 16:38:52	Dagmar	The worst that could happen is that you could die.
2021-06-21 16:38:57	akoana	Guest23: mount --bind /{dev,proc,sys}  no spaces after ","
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2021-06-21 16:39:19	Guest23	akoana: nice :)
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2021-06-21 16:41:23	Guest23	I have this line in my /mnt/etc/fstab UUID=99FC-B715  /boot/efi       vfat    umask=0077      0       1, is that from Ubuntu?
2021-06-21 16:41:29	Guest23	Or did someone modify fstab?
2021-06-21 16:42:00	Dagmar	Well, thats' a sign you're barking up the wrong telephone pole
2021-06-21 16:42:15	Dagmar	...but hey
2021-06-21 16:42:32	Dagmar	Ubuntu probably generated it.  You were clearly booting via UEFI
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2021-06-21 16:42:58	Guest23	Should I then replace it with ext4?
2021-06-21 16:43:00	Dagmar	So, slight change of plans
2021-06-21 16:43:05	Guest23	alright
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2021-06-21 16:43:22	Dagmar	You need to mount your /boot partition, and then you need to mount the EDP partition at /boot/efi as well
2021-06-21 16:43:23	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:43:40	Dagmar	(both under /mnt of course)
2021-06-21 16:43:47	akik	Guest23: you still need to mount those special directories in their separate mount points
2021-06-21 16:43:48	Dagmar	s/EDP/ESP/
2021-06-21 16:43:50	Guest23	am I running any mkfs commands?
2021-06-21 16:44:01	Dagmar	THat depends
2021-06-21 16:44:20	Dagmar	YTou're actually in pretty decent shape so long as you didn't also format the ESP partition
2021-06-21 16:44:29	Guest23	I already ran mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/sda1
2021-06-21 16:44:39	Guest23	so it should be good to go, no need to repeat that step I think
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2021-06-21 16:44:51	Dagmar	OKaY
2021-06-21 16:45:16	Dagmar	If I remember correctly you generally don't need to specify -F 32
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2021-06-21 16:45:40	Dagmar	At least, it hasn't burnt me yet, and i've definitely slapped a few UEFI machines together by hand and they're still booting
2021-06-21 16:45:45	Guest23	I should edit fstab to remove the UUID though right?
2021-06-21 16:45:59	Dagmar	You should _update it_
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2021-06-21 16:46:06	 *	Guest23 groans
2021-06-21 16:46:11	Dagmar	THat UUID= part tells the kernel which filesystem to mount
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2021-06-21 16:46:26	Dagmar	Being that you just formatted it, it'll likely have a different UUID than before
2021-06-21 16:46:31	Guest23	How do I obtian the UUID of /dev/sda1? lsblk doesn't list it
2021-06-21 16:46:39	Dagmar	You can either go find that out, or you can just shove /dev/sda1 there
2021-06-21 16:46:42	akik	Guest23: blkid
2021-06-21 16:46:54	Guest23	Nice!
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2021-06-21 16:47:30	immibis	bewees: windows isn't *that* virus-y yet... it won't install itself on your linux machine automatically
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2021-06-21 16:48:19	Guest23	my past self has left a note in my fstab: "# /boot/efi was on /dev/sda1 during installation"
2021-06-21 16:48:33	Guest23	Or that note might've been from the ubuntu installation. Is it important?
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2021-06-21 16:49:39	DLange	where does the same note say /boot {is|was}?
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2021-06-21 16:50:05	Guest23	there's nothing about that
2021-06-21 16:50:25	DLange	so you probably formatted the EFI partition and not a boot partition
2021-06-21 16:50:31	DLange	what size is that partition
2021-06-21 16:50:48	Guest23	sda1: 512M sda2: 1K
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2021-06-21 16:51:19	DLange	512MB looks like an EFI partition
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2021-06-21 16:53:15	Guest23	how do I proceed?
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2021-06-21 16:53:51	Guest23	Continue with this? "Dagmar: You need to mount your /boot partition, and then you need to mount the EDP partition at /boot/efi as well"
2021-06-21 16:54:10	DLange	you seem to not have a boot partition
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2021-06-21 16:54:23	Guest23	Is that possible?
2021-06-21 16:54:39	akik	/boot can be inside /
2021-06-21 16:54:44	<--	CrustY (~crusty@45.135.187.100) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 16:54:45	DLange	sure, /boot can be pa... what akik says
2021-06-21 16:55:04	Guest23	so I erased the EFI partition? Is that salvagable?
2021-06-21 16:55:34	DLange	I'd reinstall whatever Ubuntu version you have and just make sure it leaves /home (in case that is seperate) alone
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2021-06-21 16:55:36	TJ-	Guest23: easily, once you've got the full chroot set up
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2021-06-21 16:55:56	Guest23	Great
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2021-06-21 16:56:33	DLange	did you have any other OS on that box but Ubuntu?
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2021-06-21 16:56:48	Guest23	Just Ubuntu
2021-06-21 16:56:58	DLange	ok, that's good
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2021-06-21 16:57:24	Guest23	I bought a new hard drive to be able to safely experiment with other OSes
2021-06-21 16:57:33	Guest23	but I messed up my main thing anyway! lol!
2021-06-21 16:57:45	DLange	well, it is all a learning experience
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2021-06-21 16:59:46	TJ-	Guest23: have you repaired the /mnt/etc/ftab with the new UUID from formatting /dev/sda1 ?
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2021-06-21 16:59:52	Guest23	yeah
2021-06-21 17:00:10	TJ-	Guest23: have you mounted the kernel file-systems into /mnt/ too?
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2021-06-21 17:00:25	Guest23	proc sys and dev?
2021-06-21 17:00:28	TJ-	Guest23: yes
2021-06-21 17:00:31	Guest23	yeah
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2021-06-21 17:00:48	TJ-	Guest23: how about bind mounting /etc/resolv.conf into /mnt/etc/resolv.conf ?
2021-06-21 17:01:03	TJ-	Guest23: as in "sudo mount --bind /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/etc/resolv.conf"
2021-06-21 17:01:18	Guest23	Right, yeah
2021-06-21 17:01:24	<--	RoseKitsune (~RoseKitsu@user/rosekitsune) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 17:01:47	Guest23	hmmm wait a moment
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2021-06-21 17:01:55	TJ-	Guest23: ok, so now ensure all file-systems are mounted with "sudo chroot /mnt mount --all"
2021-06-21 17:02:20	Guest23	after I bind-mounted dev proc and sys, I cant' bind-mount resolv.conf, complains that "mount point does not exist"
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2021-06-21 17:03:36	TJ-	Guest23: you said the root-fs was on /mnt/ ?
2021-06-21 17:04:12	Guest23	Yeah
2021-06-21 17:04:13	TJ-	Guest23: likely there isn't currently an /mnt/etc/resolv.conf symlink or file?
2021-06-21 17:04:35	Guest23	Yeah, well right now /mnt looks funny
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2021-06-21 17:04:54	Guest23	ls /mnt gives "block bus class dev devices firmware fs hypervisor kernel module power"
2021-06-21 17:04:59	TJ-	Guest23: "sudo touch /mnt/etc/resolv.conf" then retry the bind
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2021-06-21 17:05:08	TJ-	Guest23: argh stop!
2021-06-21 17:05:15	Guest23	ok!
2021-06-21 17:05:15	TJ-	you did a bad sys mount
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2021-06-21 17:05:22	Guest23	How did I do that?
2021-06-21 17:05:24	TJ-	Guest23: "sudo umount /mnt"
2021-06-21 17:05:37	Guest23	alright, good
2021-06-21 17:05:38	TJ-	Guest23: that'll take off the sysfs ... then check again what you see under /mnt/
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2021-06-21 17:06:24	Guest23	https://6ief
2021-06-21 17:06:29	Guest23	https://termbin.com/6ief
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2021-06-21 17:06:56	akoana	that's /proc
2021-06-21 17:06:57	Guest23	I'm glad Quassel works because firefox went bonkers
2021-06-21 17:07:12	<--	ron1w (~roni@207.248.198.186) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 17:07:18	Dagmar	Uh... he shoudln't hjave to bind mount resolv.conf
2021-06-21 17:07:23	akik	i know right, those tabs
2021-06-21 17:07:23	TJ-	Guest23: "sudo umount /mnt/" again, remove procfs!
2021-06-21 17:07:30	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-21 17:07:49	TJ-	Guest23: then check it once more until you see /mnt/etc/ /mnt/usr and so on
2021-06-21 17:08:05	Guest23	Ok I'm there TJ-
2021-06-21 17:08:06	TJ-	Dagmar: sometimes it does, 'depending'
2021-06-21 17:08:10	akik	Guest23: you still need to mount those special directories in their separate mount points
2021-06-21 17:08:18	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 17:08:20	akik	Guest23: in your paste you tried to mount them all in /mnt
2021-06-21 17:08:34	Guest23	akik: oooh
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2021-06-21 17:08:49	TJ-	Guest23: OK, now let's do it properly! do this: "for n in proc sys dev; do sudo mount --rbind /$n /mnt/$n; done"
2021-06-21 17:08:59	TJ-	Guest23: then "sudo chroot /mnt mount --all"
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2021-06-21 17:09:33	TJ-	Guest23: then, before we can reinstall grub, we need to ensure the current session is booted in EFI mode
2021-06-21 17:10:08	Guest23	Ok I'm in chroot I believe
2021-06-21 17:10:32	Guest23	Or at least I executed the sudo chroot /mnt mount --all command; there was no output
2021-06-21 17:10:35	TJ-	Guest23: I hope you're not 'in' it - all commands should be executed from outside it
2021-06-21 17:10:43	Guest23	Yesah, right :)
2021-06-21 17:10:44	TJ-	Guest23: good - nothing to report means GOOD
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2021-06-21 17:11:19	TJ-	Guest23: check for EFI mode: "ls /sys/firmware/efi/" you should see things like 'fw_vendor' and others
2021-06-21 17:11:47	Guest23	yes they're there
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2021-06-21 17:14:04	TJ-	Guest23: now check the efivars file-system is mounted: "mount | grep efivars"
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2021-06-21 17:14:36	Guest23	on /sys/firmware/efi/efivars and /mnt/sys/firmware/efi/efivars
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2021-06-21 17:16:01	TJ-	Good, let's fix it: "sudo chroot /mnt grub-install -v /dev/sda |& tee /tmp/grub-install.log"
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2021-06-21 17:16:24	TJ-	Guest23: this will also capture a log in case it goes wrong, that you can pastebin for me
2021-06-21 17:16:25	<--	mikail (~mikail@2a02:c7f:bc9c:3100:ae93:93fc:603f:ceaf) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-21 17:17:19	Guest23	Installation finished. No error reported.
2021-06-21 17:17:39	TJ-	Guest23: now "sudo chroot /mnt update-grub"
2021-06-21 17:18:00	Guest23	failed to run: no such file or directory update-grub
2021-06-21 17:18:10	Guest23	nevermind typo
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2021-06-21 17:18:17	TJ-	phew!
2021-06-21 17:18:23	Guest23	lol. Sorry TJ-
2021-06-21 17:18:27	Guest23	It says done
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2021-06-21 17:18:35	TJ-	Guest23: all done, reboot and enjoy
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2021-06-21 17:19:16	greatcoof	how can i talk to normies about computers without throwing in technical terms and making them not undershand shit
2021-06-21 17:19:40	Guest23	TJ-: Wow! Awesome, thank you
2021-06-21 17:19:44	drip	try to talk in car terms, or kitten terms
2021-06-21 17:19:53	TJ-	Guest23: come back and confirm it works... or doesn't!
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2021-06-21 17:20:08	greatcoof	i dont know car/kitten terms
2021-06-21 17:20:09	akik	greatcoof: which part is the most difficult ?
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2021-06-21 17:20:46	TJ-	greatcoof: tell them it's a highly specialised field and they'd never understand it, so you won't bother trying to explain - it's just Magic!
2021-06-21 17:21:26	 *	Guest23 reboots
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2021-06-21 17:21:48	greatcoof	akik: i feel like im doing them wrong if i don't explain how cpu registers work when im teaching them a print("hello world")
2021-06-21 17:22:17	TJ-	greatcoof: that's more of a 'no need to know'
2021-06-21 17:22:37	TJ-	greatcoof: if they ask, then drill down, else don't
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2021-06-21 17:23:31	euouae	TJ-: Drinks on me! I don't drink, but, whatever
2021-06-21 17:23:32	akik	greatcoof: yea that's unnecessary
2021-06-21 17:23:40	euouae	TJ-: (Guest23 here)
2021-06-21 17:23:43	greatcoof	TJ-: my problem is the exact opposite tho , i talk about smth they dont know and all of a sudden it's like im talking to a wall
2021-06-21 17:23:47	akik	computers works on smoke, btw
2021-06-21 17:23:52	TJ-	euouae: yay
2021-06-21 17:24:06	TJ-	greatcoof: been there, done that!
2021-06-21 17:24:17	Bocaneri	greatcoof, what is "smth"?
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2021-06-21 17:24:31	greatcoof	s/smth/something
2021-06-21 17:24:36	Bocaneri	Then say so.
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2021-06-21 17:24:47	greatcoof	sry :p
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2021-06-21 17:24:58	euouae	greatcoof: attend some computer conference or meeting
2021-06-21 17:25:03	Bocaneri	That would be "sorry", not "sry".
2021-06-21 17:25:09	TJ-	amazes me all these keyboards with keys that don't work
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2021-06-21 17:25:55	greatcoof	TJ-: never saw a normie pressing the tab button
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2021-06-21 17:26:13	Bocaneri	TJ-, the keyboard I just threw out had keys in odd places, spaced too close together ("reduced footprint!") and sensed themselves as having been pressed FAR too easily. Byebye!
2021-06-21 17:26:22	euouae	greatcoof: https://www.2600.com/meetings ofr example
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2021-06-21 17:27:02	Bocaneri	greatcoof, what are you calling a "normie"?
2021-06-21 17:27:33	TJ-	Bocaneri: i've a couple of 2006 era Apple mechancials. I used to love the action but now due to low-profile keyboards training me to hit keys from a low angle, those mechanical 'stick' when pressing because fingers aren't directly over the key, so they're on the way to the scrap heap
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2021-06-21 17:28:15	Bocaneri	They get stuck?
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2021-06-21 17:28:40	Bocaneri	Do they tend to jam on the way DOWN or on the way UP?
2021-06-21 17:28:41	TJ-	Bocaneri: they 'drag' or resist
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2021-06-21 17:29:11	euouae	I like silent keyboards
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2021-06-21 17:29:22	euouae	I have a high wpm and I dont' like noisy stuff
2021-06-21 17:29:29	TJ-	because they're being pushed at an angle, say 60', rather than 90'
2021-06-21 17:29:37	Bocaneri	Guessing I'm lucky I'm deaf. :D
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2021-06-21 17:29:55	euouae	Bocaneri: hehe ok fair enough. I am very picky with noise
2021-06-21 17:30:02	TJ-	those apple keyboards are almost silent if typing with perpendicular motion
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2021-06-21 17:30:48	euouae	Japan has some interesting keyboards. A lot of keys around the alt/ctrl area
2021-06-21 17:30:48	TJ-	I don't think I've used anything other than Bluetooth keyboards for almost 15 years now, those Apples are, and all since have been
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2021-06-21 17:32:46	euouae	I haven't really looked into it but I'd probably want to get a specialized keyboard
2021-06-21 17:32:56	euouae	something ergonomical with a trackball too
2021-06-21 17:33:12	euouae	enough shoulder/wrist/neck/back pain...
2021-06-21 17:33:20	akoana	euouae: look at that: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg - Hyper-Super-Meta-Crtl :)
2021-06-21 17:33:33	akoana	Ctrl*
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2021-06-21 17:34:36	euouae	akoana: https://kbd-project.org/docs/scancodes/jp106-with-scancodes.jpg
2021-06-21 17:34:37	Bocaneri	Don't forget the Greek button, too!
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2021-06-21 17:35:34	Bocaneri	I'm guessing that using emacs on that kind of keyboard in Japanese would induce traumatic RIS.
2021-06-21 17:35:37	Bocaneri	RSI, even.
2021-06-21 17:36:02	Dagmar	DOn't let them get the ALT key!
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2021-06-21 17:36:18	Dagmar	If they can press them all at the same time, it'll wipe out half the processing capacity in the universe!
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2021-06-21 17:38:27	superboot	Hi all. The command "last reboot" displays several entries all of which say "still running". Why does it think that multiple bootups are still running at the same time? Can't only one be running at once?
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2021-06-21 17:39:19	TJ-	superboot: not marked as shutdown
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2021-06-21 17:39:46	superboot	TJ-: As in, a crash?
2021-06-21 17:40:08	Dagmar	I'm thinking, "bad distribution maintainers" personally
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2021-06-21 17:41:56	TJ-	superboot: if I recall correctly, there's a pseudo 'reboot' user that it tracks so if at boot 'reboot' logs in but never logs out (shutdown) and another 'reboot' logs in ... you get multiple apparent sessions
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2021-06-21 17:44:04	superboot	TJ-: Ah, yes. That makes sense.
2021-06-21 17:44:07	superboot	Thanks.
2021-06-21 17:44:16	Dagmar	It's coming out right on Slackware and CentOs tho
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2021-06-21 17:44:50	Dagmar	My guess is someone screwed up their shutdown code (CentOS is 7, by the way)
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2021-06-21 17:49:00	Hanii	My default mouse acceleration curve in OS X is 0.6875, as reported by "defaults read .GlobalPreferences com.apple.mouse.scaling" - using Manjaro KDE, is there somewhere I can plug that number into to get the same mouse acceleration curve in linux?
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2021-06-21 17:50:40	ballerburg9005	332/quit
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2021-06-21 17:51:34	euouae	Hanii: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mouse_acceleration#Changing_the_acceleration does this help?
2021-06-21 17:52:22	euouae	akoana: btw, cool keyboard :) symbolics lisp machines are such a cool concept
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2021-06-21 17:52:55	akoana	yes, the are or mostly were
2021-06-21 17:53:05	akoana	they*
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2021-06-21 17:56:07	Hanii	euouae - thank you, I'll try that. Do you know if the unit of the value I got from com.apple.mouse.scaling would be the same as the unit used for "libinput accel speed"?
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2021-06-21 17:57:11	euouae	That's a good question, I'd say try it first
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2021-06-21 17:57:33	Hanii	I will - thank you
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2021-06-21 18:02:08	Gustavo6046	ping time: 404
2021-06-21 18:02:13	Gustavo6046	*visible confusion*
2021-06-21 18:02:20	Gustavo6046	"Is it 404 msecs or 404 not found or?"
2021-06-21 18:02:29	Gustavo6046	ping time: NaN
2021-06-21 18:02:32	Gustavo6046	*internal screaming*
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2021-06-21 18:02:48	Gustavo6046	inb4 linux is rewritten in jabascript
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2021-06-21 18:05:01	Dagmar	There was actually a glibc regression recently that could cause that
2021-06-21 18:05:06	Dagmar	I was unimpressed.
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2021-06-21 18:05:57	Dagmar	I had a number of monitoring things that started logging weird crap instead of zeroes as a result
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2021-06-21 18:09:04	byte4byte	ive looked in here over the past few days every few hours or so
2021-06-21 18:09:15	byte4byte	and every single time i see text from Dagmar
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2021-06-21 18:14:16	b0b	it's just like on the old net in the before time
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2021-06-21 18:15:21	babyface	anyone know how to open webp images witn Nomacs?
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2021-06-21 18:16:47	autopsy	babyface, you first wamboozle tohe doodle then open the kaboodle moddle with a poodle
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2021-06-21 18:23:43	unixbhaskar	Look like the "never ending discovery" continue till I die ..what a ride :)
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2021-06-21 18:25:40	superboot	This article says that the addition of KDE Edition to the MX Linux distro is great because "KDE desktop environment is arguably the fastest". Is that a joke, or did I miss some extream developments in the KDE world? I always thought KDE was a features over performance deal.
2021-06-21 18:25:44	superboot	https://news.itsfoss.com/biggest-linux-stories-2020/
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2021-06-21 18:26:35	e1	Man I dont know if I'd say "the fastest"
2021-06-21 18:26:48	e1	But their UI is more responsive these days, that's for sure
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2021-06-21 18:28:18	Codaraxis	I asked this earlier, but didn't get any traction. Figure I'll give it a second go in case anyone has any experience with this: The servers at my work use NIS. We just encountered a problem with one of the groups getting too long. I put in a value for MAX_MEMBERS_PER_GROUP into /etc/logins.def , which resolved the main problem that broke the user group by dividing the group across multiple entries, each with the same GID and group name. However, now
2021-06-21 18:28:18	Codaraxis	tools like ypcat and "getent group" are no longer useful because they stop at the first instance of a given key. Is there a workaround or is this just a cost of using something as old as NIS?
2021-06-21 18:28:23	autopsy	KDE is faster than a speeding bullet.
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2021-06-21 18:28:47	superboot	Put the question another way: If you had old hardware, would you reach for KDE to breath new life into it, in the same way you might reach for XFCE, for example?
2021-06-21 18:29:09	autopsy	XFCE is superceded by Fluxbox.
2021-06-21 18:29:21	 *	treefrob would reach for Xfce first
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2021-06-21 18:30:02	akoana	babyface: some people solved the problem with installing the qt5-imageformats or qt5-image-formats-plugins (something like that) package, see: https://github.com/nomacs/nomacs/issues/86
2021-06-21 18:30:04	superboot	treefrob: That's what I was thinking too.
2021-06-21 18:30:33	ncb	Fluxbox is superceded by openbox
2021-06-21 18:31:09	superboot	openbox is superceded by blackbox
2021-06-21 18:31:17	darkstone	Does anyone see a problem with making a symlink from ~/.minecraft to another partition of the 32GB flash drive so that I can install and play Minecraft on the flipping Live? I'm going stircrazy here with nothing to do but write random Python things.
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2021-06-21 18:31:21	e1	Codaraxis: you might struggle to gain traction on NIS as people dont really seem to use it anymore
2021-06-21 18:31:25	darkstone	And at the moment, nothing works.
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2021-06-21 18:31:59	matsaman	openbox easily has the least bad license of those three
2021-06-21 18:32:04	e1	Codaraxis: I dont want you to go ignored though.. theres a guy called hunterkll who pops into #reddit-sysadmin and he might be able to help if you're a fellow Oracle guy.. but you'd have to lurk r-s and wait for him to appear
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2021-06-21 18:32:29	Codaraxis	e1, yeah. I figured as much. I'm not sure why it's what was chosen, but no one wants to change. Thanks for the tip though. I"ll go lurk on there for a bit
2021-06-21 18:32:29	hoppity	Hi guys, can anyone recommend a One Drive alternative for small business document collaboration? Preferably with Samba capability
2021-06-21 18:32:31	superboot	matsaman: I don't really have an opionion on the matter. Just getting in on the fun.
2021-06-21 18:32:32	matsaman	darkstone: not really, no
2021-06-21 18:32:42	matsaman	superboot: =)
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2021-06-21 18:33:02	treefrob	darkstone, try it and see
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2021-06-21 18:33:08	treefrob	symlinks are cheap
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2021-06-21 18:33:17	superboot	darkstone: I don't see anything wrong with that.
2021-06-21 18:33:19	darkstone	I will do so, thanks. Could probably install to .steam the same way
2021-06-21 18:33:38	darkstone	I am not someone who can sit still and do nothing XD
2021-06-21 18:33:40	superboot	hoppity: You can try Proton Drive.
2021-06-21 18:33:49	superboot	(or is that still in beta?)
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2021-06-21 18:34:18	e1	hoppity: you can't just run up a samba server?
2021-06-21 18:34:37	superboot	darkstone: Just be aware of the read/write performance issues with a flash drive. Also the relatively low read/write cycles on that medium.
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2021-06-21 18:34:44	hoppity	e1, the boss is sick of on-site servers haha
2021-06-21 18:34:49	darkstone	Read/write cycles?
2021-06-21 18:35:10	superboot	darkstone: How many times the flash drive can be written to.
2021-06-21 18:35:15	darkstone	Ah yeah.
2021-06-21 18:35:15	e1	hoppity: well you're going to be paying for the luxury in whatever way. Best to go OneDrive and push the company towards O365
2021-06-21 18:35:26	babyface	akoana, thanks that was the right solution :)
2021-06-21 18:35:28	darkstone	Minecraft writes to its save files pretty frequently :/
2021-06-21 18:35:35	superboot	darkstone: That is to say, the same sector of the drive has a limit to the number of times it can be overwritten.
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2021-06-21 18:35:50	akoana	babyface: welcome
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2021-06-21 18:35:57	hoppity	e1, I think so too but all users hate Office 365's interface, find it difficult to understand Sharepoint etc
2021-06-21 18:36:00	darkstone	I've never hit that limit with anything, but Minecraft would probably be able to do that.
2021-06-21 18:36:20	superboot	e1: Did you just reccommend Microsoft Office?
2021-06-21 18:36:24	darkstone	By default it autosaves very very quickly and frequently
2021-06-21 18:36:39	e1	superboot: this is a business, probably already pays for office, and the boss wants to cloud ALL the things
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2021-06-21 18:36:57	e1	Would you really recommend a dovecot mail server, libreoffice and a EC2 instance running nextcloud?
2021-06-21 18:37:09	superboot	darkstone: It usually manifests itself with unexpected I/O errors and corrupted files.
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2021-06-21 18:37:40	darkstone	Yeah, never had that happen, even with the ancient drives used by my parents for the company back before I was even a thing
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2021-06-21 18:37:55	superboot	e1: Yeah, I would. At least having to choose between the two.
2021-06-21 18:38:15	darkstone	I just need to find //something// to hold my attention, and there are very, very few options. ;_;
2021-06-21 18:38:18	e1	superboot: we run something similar and i would not recommend it
2021-06-21 18:38:18	superboot	darkstone: That's good. Just something to be aware of.
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2021-06-21 18:38:31	darkstone	Yeah, thanks. With that in mind I probably won't try to run Minecraft off it.
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2021-06-21 18:38:34	Swift110-mobile_	hey all
2021-06-21 18:38:39	darkstone	Hiyo.
2021-06-21 18:38:43	darkstone	I'm new here.
2021-06-21 18:38:45	e1	Our entire business has been using FOSS for decades and while it was great years ago, these days it's just constant tail chasing over little things
2021-06-21 18:38:47	superboot	darkstone: Try learning something new. Dig into the bash manual or simmilar.
2021-06-21 18:38:57	Swift110-mobile_	welcome darkstone
2021-06-21 18:39:01	superboot	darkstone: Welcome.
2021-06-21 18:39:03	darkstone	Thanks :)
2021-06-21 18:39:16	superboot	Swift110-mobile_: Hi there.
2021-06-21 18:39:37	darkstone	Hm, I have been wanting (and needing tbh) to learn C#, though from what I understand Linux is not the best environment in which to do so.
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2021-06-21 18:39:51	darkstone	I might have been misled though
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2021-06-21 18:39:56	treefrob	C#... bah
2021-06-21 18:40:05	superboot	e1: I actually really agree with you. It seems like much of the tallent was drawn away by apps and Android et. al.
2021-06-21 18:40:08	Swift110-mobile_	hey superboot
2021-06-21 18:40:09	darkstone	Eh, I want to mod Rimworld, and for what I plan to do, I'll need the codeness.
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2021-06-21 18:40:30	superboot	darkstone: I think C# is a Microsoft thing, no?
2021-06-21 18:40:35	darkstone	Yup afaik
2021-06-21 18:40:55	darkstone	I've gotten pretty adept at making almost anything run on wine, but wine is not an option at the moment.
2021-06-21 18:41:02	Psi-Jack	superboot It started that way.
2021-06-21 18:41:15	Psi-Jack	C#, however, has since made it to an ECMA-334 standard.
2021-06-21 18:41:16	darkstone	So far I have had exactly 4 things refuse outright to run on Wine no matter what I did.
2021-06-21 18:41:19	superboot	Psi-Jack: Oh really? I don't know much (anything) about it.
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2021-06-21 18:41:47	Jacki	hello
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2021-06-21 18:41:55	superboot	Jacki: Hello Jacki.
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2021-06-21 18:46:48	hololeap	has anyone been able to broadcast steam games successfully using the linux client?
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2021-06-21 18:53:26	matsaman	hololeap: if you can't do it from the steam client itself you could do it with something else
2021-06-21 18:54:26	superboot	hololeap: Like OBS for example.
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2021-06-21 18:59:18	hololeap	matsaman, superboot: interesting. thanks for the recommendation
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2021-06-21 18:59:58	darkstone	Sectors are close by physically, right?
2021-06-21 19:00:08	darkstone	Because a lot of the bad sectors badblocks are reporting are sequential
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2021-06-21 19:06:50	hololeap	darkstone: is it a regular HDD?
2021-06-21 19:06:57	darkstone	Yeah
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2021-06-21 19:08:21	matsaman	why don't you replace the drive
2021-06-21 19:08:53	darkstone	Because I can't afford it at this point
2021-06-21 19:09:01	darkstone	Our only income is disability and survivor's benefits
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2021-06-21 19:09:30	darkstone	My stimulus checks are allocated for things like getting my teeth fixed and getting the bathroom pipes to stop flooding the floor when you turn on the sink XD
2021-06-21 19:09:44	darkstone	Vital things, which we'll never be able to afford otherwise
2021-06-21 19:09:57	ayecee	look at this guy flaunting his running water
2021-06-21 19:10:03	darkstone	XD
2021-06-21 19:10:21	darkstone	It's a 60-year-old house, and it's falling apart
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2021-06-21 19:10:28	ayecee	yeah, they do that
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2021-06-21 19:10:56	Tables	does anyone use zram-config/zram-init with log2ram?
2021-06-21 19:11:16	darkstone	I just use zram out of the box myself, sorry.
2021-06-21 19:11:16	ayecee	what would you ask someone who did
2021-06-21 19:12:13	Tables	if they can be used together for the same directories. That is to say store logs in a zram block device and save to disk every so often.
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2021-06-21 19:12:43	hololeap	darkstone: I couldn't find anything that difinitively said "yes" to your question, but this is relevant, and intuitively I would say it makes sense that sectors would be contiguous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_cluster
2021-06-21 19:13:26	darkstone	Thanks
2021-06-21 19:13:36	hololeap	darkstone: you might also consider asking in ##hardware
2021-06-21 19:13:37	ayecee	Tables: i don't see why not
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2021-06-21 19:14:29	ayecee	it would be separate zram block devices, but should still work
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2021-06-21 19:16:34	ayecee	i'm not familiar with log2ram. can it use a tmpfs instead? that would make more sense.
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2021-06-21 19:17:07	darkstone	Does a live Linux use swap?
2021-06-21 19:17:16	ayecee	it can
2021-06-21 19:17:40	c705	within specs, is an email account a.b.c@example.com considered the same account as abc@example.com?
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2021-06-21 19:18:02	ayecee	c705: no, but some providers treat them as the same
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2021-06-21 19:18:16	c705	thanks, i just lost 20 bucks over it :)
2021-06-21 19:18:25	ayecee	heh
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2021-06-21 19:19:41	ayecee	is it just a gmail thing?
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2021-06-21 19:20:45	c705	gmail that i know of
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2021-06-21 19:32:13	Tables	The point of log2ram is to stack writes so you don't lose out partial writes due to default block size
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2021-06-21 19:33:38	ayecee	okay but can it use tmpfs instead?
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2021-06-21 19:34:48	kodah	that's very gmail centric
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2021-06-21 19:35:01	Tables	Possibly but that defeats the point
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2021-06-21 19:35:08	ayecee	defeats the point how
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2021-06-21 19:35:29	Tables	you lose out on zram compression and you may also be writing to disk in certain circumstances
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2021-06-21 19:35:39	kodah	tmpfs is memory
2021-06-21 19:35:39	Tables	I know about tmpfs/ramfs
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2021-06-21 19:35:41	ayecee	why do you lose out on zram compression
2021-06-21 19:35:59	ayecee	you got the zram swap, that does compression
2021-06-21 19:36:27	ayecee	but okay, i see your point then.
2021-06-21 19:36:42	Tables	tmpfs rolls over to swap which may be disk space
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2021-06-21 19:37:17	ayecee	what does zram roll over to?
2021-06-21 19:37:39	Tables	nothing if you have no swap, but it is less likely because it is compressed RAM
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2021-06-21 19:37:57	Tables	the real question is ramfs vs zram, not tmpfs vs zram
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2021-06-21 19:38:33	Tables	Which is the entire point of me asking; That is to say, in theory log2ram would write to disk maximizing block usage every so often
2021-06-21 19:38:57	Tables	the ram wouldn't be filled within that timeframe realistically so it doesn't matter in practice.
2021-06-21 19:39:26	kodah	do i understand your problem statement correctly: you want buffered logs?
2021-06-21 19:39:26	Tables	I feel like we're reaching inverse XY problem territory here.
2021-06-21 19:39:29	ayecee	what did you ask again?
2021-06-21 19:39:39	ayecee	i thought it was just whether they would work together
2021-06-21 19:39:49	Tables	"Tables> does anyone use zram-config/zram-init with log2ram?"
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2021-06-21 19:39:50	hololeap	superboot: I got obs-studio, but I don't understand what it's asking for in the setup wizard. it wants a "stream key". what is that?
2021-06-21 19:39:57	Tables	Yes, exactly.
2021-06-21 19:40:09	superboot	Does anyone have a utility like tail -f that will clear the screen if the file is truncated (i.e. with :>file)?
2021-06-21 19:40:11	Tables	I want the best of both worlds, I'm wondering if its possible.
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2021-06-21 19:40:18	ayecee	i don't see why not
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2021-06-21 19:40:26	ayecee	try it and see i guess
2021-06-21 19:40:28	superboot	hololeap: Where are you trying to stream to?
2021-06-21 19:40:29	hololeap	superboot: tail literally has a flag for that :p
2021-06-21 19:40:33	hololeap	superboot: steam
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2021-06-21 19:40:43	ayecee	Tables: as we don't seem to have someone on hand who has actually done it
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2021-06-21 19:41:00	ayecee	or even tried to do it
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2021-06-21 19:41:39	kodah	if the goal is to get buffered logs this seems like an obscure way to do that
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2021-06-21 19:41:48	superboot	hololeap: Here is a how to of sorts: https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/how-to-stream-in-steam-using-obs-studio.81350/
2021-06-21 19:41:51	hololeap	superboot: -F is the same as -f, but it adds: --retry   keep trying to open a file if it is inaccessible
2021-06-21 19:41:53	kodah	i'm guessing there's a reason for that though
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2021-06-21 19:42:13	ayecee	as far as stacking writes, logging to tmpfs would accomplish that too, but without the zram compression up front i guess.
2021-06-21 19:42:14	Tables	The benefits are two fold, kodah. They are compressed before written, using less RAM.
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2021-06-21 19:42:38	hololeap	superboot: nvm, I misread. you want it to clear the screen when it gets truncated? you may have to write that yourself
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2021-06-21 19:42:54	kodah	hm
2021-06-21 19:42:59	superboot	hololeap: Ah, ok. thanks.
2021-06-21 19:43:00	ayecee	Tables: oh, have i misunderstood? does log2ram not normally use xram?
2021-06-21 19:43:19	ayecee	err, zram
2021-06-21 19:43:38	Tables	Not that I am aware of.https://github.com/azlux/log2ram/blob/master/install.sh
2021-06-21 19:43:59	ayecee	seems like it uses tmpfs by default
2021-06-21 19:44:29	ayecee	with a parameter to use zram instead
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2021-06-21 19:45:46	ayecee	at least that's how i'm reading the ZL2R parameter. maybe it does something else.
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2021-06-21 19:45:58	Tables	the problem here is even if it does, it creates its own new block instead of using one large one for optimal compression
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2021-06-21 19:46:29	ayecee	optimal compression eh
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2021-06-21 19:46:50	ayecee	do you figure the blocks in a zram device share a dictionary?
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2021-06-21 19:47:16	ayecee	i don't know if they do either
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2021-06-21 19:48:13	Tables	One of the reasons why https://github.com/vaeth/zram-init and the like were created seems to be that previously, you would get one zram block device per thread.
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2021-06-21 19:49:11	ayecee	because zram used to support only one thread per device at a time
2021-06-21 19:49:26	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 19:49:38	ayecee	made the locking easier
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2021-06-21 19:57:52	grys	hello
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2021-06-21 19:58:10	matsaman	=)
2021-06-21 19:58:26	grys	hi matsaman, how do you use your linux, what do you use it for
2021-06-21 19:58:35	grys	mine mostly for remote desktop and irc
2021-06-21 19:58:38	fluid	:D
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2021-06-21 19:59:14	ayecee	i mostly use mine as a conversation starter with the ladies
2021-06-21 19:59:37	matsaman	grys: everything, to waste less time
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2021-06-21 20:00:03	ayecee	saves more time for chatting on irc!
2021-06-21 20:00:06	matsaman	programming, work, media processing, web development, word processing, web surfing, yadda yadda
2021-06-21 20:00:10	matsaman	for totes
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2021-06-21 20:06:49	rascul	i use my linux for linuxing
2021-06-21 20:06:55	rascul	i linux so hard
2021-06-21 20:07:01	 *	esselfe linuxes rascul
2021-06-21 20:07:03	grys	matsaman, what do you develop for web? any particular cms?
2021-06-21 20:07:07	matsaman	so so hard
2021-06-21 20:07:18	esselfe	verily hardly?
2021-06-21 20:07:39	matsaman	grys: whatever the stupid higher ups chose before I was hired
2021-06-21 20:07:44	matsaman	Django at the moment
2021-06-21 20:07:46	--	Great is now known as testfuck
2021-06-21 20:07:53	matsaman	so it could be worse
2021-06-21 20:07:56	--	testfuck is now known as Great
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2021-06-21 20:08:47	matsaman	grys: when I actually switched to GNU/Linux it would have been PHP and ASP/VBScript =P
2021-06-21 20:08:49	grys	not bad
2021-06-21 20:08:50	-->	nifl` (~user@user/niflce) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:08:52	matsaman	just ignoring JS, the omnipresent
2021-06-21 20:09:03	grys	so you'd go without js at all
2021-06-21 20:09:15	grys	or you suggest that i take it for granted
2021-06-21 20:09:18	--	nifl` is now known as nifl
2021-06-21 20:09:18	matsaman	I'm happy to, but I meant that JS is always there so there's no point mentioning it
2021-06-21 20:09:23	grys	ah
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2021-06-21 20:09:42	matsaman	we had real home made ASP CMSes
2021-06-21 20:09:49	-->	Jinx (~Jinx@c-98-243-252-252.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:09:50	ayecee	it's the glue they use to stick web pages together
2021-06-21 20:09:51	grys	i liked webgui a lot
2021-06-21 20:09:51	matsaman	and the occasional wordpress
2021-06-21 20:09:58	ayecee	really hard to get off your fingers
2021-06-21 20:10:16	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:10:17	matsaman	'bout the only choice if you need a client-side fix, yeah
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2021-06-21 20:10:28	grys	when i had a vps, i ran webgui on it and even coded something for it that was missing
2021-06-21 20:10:31	Tables	static site generators...
2021-06-21 20:10:36	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@5.253.207.212) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:10:38	matsaman	Tables: =)
2021-06-21 20:10:49	grys	fortunately it was just playing around and i didn't need to keep it for much longer, so i didn't start to dislike it
2021-06-21 20:10:54	rascul	great for static content
2021-06-21 20:10:57	grys	Tables, what are your favourite static site generators
2021-06-21 20:10:59	matsaman	Tables: it's weird they're still pretty unpopular, in industry anyway
2021-06-21 20:11:03	Tables	Hugo
2021-06-21 20:11:06	grys	nice
2021-06-21 20:11:17	rascul	can make one in like 5 lines of bash if you really wanted to
2021-06-21 20:11:23	rascul	but it won't be very special
2021-06-21 20:11:34	matsaman	| tr '\n' ';'
2021-06-21 20:11:42	matsaman	special is overrated
2021-06-21 20:11:44	-->	FoodMan (~FoodMan@cpc104776-belf12-2-0-cust417.2-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:12:05	matsaman	I used to want to make a CMS in some language popular for the task
2021-06-21 20:12:14	matsaman	but my latest tinkering projects are all just in bash
2021-06-21 20:12:17	<--	Skyz (~Skyz@user/skyz) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-21 20:12:21	Psi-Jack	Write a CMS in rust.
2021-06-21 20:12:22	matsaman	including a CMS
2021-06-21 20:12:23	Psi-Jack	Or Pony. :)
2021-06-21 20:12:27	matsaman	ew =P
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2021-06-21 20:13:04	rascul	i use primer with a rust inhibitor
2021-06-21 20:14:04	matsaman	heh
2021-06-21 20:14:07	-->	euouae (~euouae@user/euouae) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:14:18	--	Voidn00b is now known as Voidn00b_Arm64_P
2021-06-21 20:14:26	matsaman	I use wood with trees planted for future replacement
2021-06-21 20:14:32	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:14:37	rascul	i have wood
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2021-06-21 20:15:04	matsaman	rascul: =D
2021-06-21 20:15:04	--	Voidn00b-ARM-PBP is now known as Voidn00b-ARM64-P
2021-06-21 20:15:09	rascul	primer for wood doesn't need a rust inhibitor though
2021-06-21 20:15:11	ayecee	i know a guy who has wood, if you need some to use
2021-06-21 20:15:13	--	Voidn00b-ARM64-P is now known as Voidn00b-ARM_PBP
2021-06-21 20:15:22	--	Voidn00b-ARM_PBP is now known as Voidn00b_ARM_PBP
2021-06-21 20:15:29	pnbeast	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP, please, give it a rest.
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2021-06-21 20:16:22	 *	rascul gives pnbeast a rest
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2021-06-21 20:17:34	pnbeast	One of those nasty, clingy gel wrist rests?
2021-06-21 20:18:18	<--	zjmc_ (zjmc@user/zjmc) has left #linux
2021-06-21 20:18:18	rascul	no, it has been cleaned
2021-06-21 20:18:34	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-21 20:19:13	pnbeast	They're still disgusting.  I have worked in tech support for years.  They're inherently disgusting.
2021-06-21 20:19:27	Kyv	Run a rag over it.
2021-06-21 20:19:30	<--	Seirdy (~Seirdy@sourcehut/user/seirdy) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:19:55	pnbeast	I'll wrap it in a plastic bag so I can pick it up without touching it.
2021-06-21 20:20:10	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP	rofl srry guys not the best versed in irc ill try to do better next time
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2021-06-21 20:20:18	Kyv	pnbeast: you want a pair of tongs?
2021-06-21 20:20:44	<--	Smokie (~meh@33.127.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-21 20:21:12	Kyv	And a hazmat something..
2021-06-21 20:21:34	 *	Kyv tosses pnbeast a "Kiss the Cook" apron.
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2021-06-21 20:22:09	rascul	i did tech support but it was for the field techs not the normal people
2021-06-21 20:22:19	<--	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-06-21 20:22:45	rascul	we didn't have any gel wrist rests
2021-06-21 20:23:03	<--	CaCO3 (~CaCO3@pool-96-245-67-114.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Client Quit)
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2021-06-21 20:23:42	Kyv	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP: dont be sorry, just stop it.
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2021-06-21 20:23:49	Nintendo	A wrist rest for a computer keyboard is like a turd catcher for a pair of pants.
2021-06-21 20:23:50	pnbeast	Sane people never have those things.  Just users.
2021-06-21 20:23:58	pnbeast	Amen!
2021-06-21 20:23:58	grys	kyv, he/she already stopped, i think
2021-06-21 20:24:14	Kyv	grys: but they were sorry.
2021-06-21 20:24:15	grys	though i'd suggest '/nick Voidn00b', everything else doesnt matter
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2021-06-21 20:25:11	Kyv	Well, the vowels can go, obviously.
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2021-06-21 20:26:01	pnbeast	Why don't we have a bot, again?
2021-06-21 20:26:06	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:26:10	<--	mteo (francis@user/francis) has quit (Quit: yup)
2021-06-21 20:26:21	grys	what bot?
2021-06-21 20:26:31	Kyv	The one we don't have.
2021-06-21 20:26:37	-->	bigRoo (~user@131.236.54.84) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 20:26:49	<--	wons (wons@user/wons) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:27:11	Kyv	The grass is always greener on the underside of the gelatin
2021-06-21 20:27:13	-->	jhenson (~jhenson@user/jhenson) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:27:39	rascul	bots are against the rules
2021-06-21 20:27:42	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:28:06	akoana	did they say so (the bots?=
2021-06-21 20:28:07	akoana	)
2021-06-21 20:28:20	rascul	"No bots, automated responses or public logging allowed."   https://linux.chat/linux-on-libera/channel-rules/
2021-06-21 20:28:46	akoana	well Asimov had rules for bots...
2021-06-21 20:28:59	rascul	asimov is against the rules
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2021-06-21 20:29:31	akoana	anarchy!
2021-06-21 20:29:39	rascul	anarchy is against the rules
2021-06-21 20:29:46	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@5.253.207.212) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:29:52	matsaman	rules are against the rules
2021-06-21 20:30:00	rascul	you're against the rules
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2021-06-21 20:30:21	matsaman	nou!
2021-06-21 20:30:29	akoana	each rule has an exception, this rule is an exception: it hasn't an exception
2021-06-21 20:30:29	<--	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-21 20:30:42	rascul	exceptions are against the rules
2021-06-21 20:30:56	Kyv	"Big Three" my foot
2021-06-21 20:31:08	 *	akoana catches an exception
2021-06-21 20:31:26	 *	rascul leans a few exceptions against a rule
2021-06-21 20:31:37	akoana	exceptions rule!
2021-06-21 20:32:12	rascul	i have a steel 18 inch rule
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2021-06-21 20:32:34	rascul	it works pretty good for measuring things and drawing straight lines 18 inches or less
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2021-06-21 20:33:30	--	nifl` is now known as nifl
2021-06-21 20:33:34	 *	akoana checks the rule with a ruler
2021-06-21 20:33:45	--	nifl is now known as nifl`
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2021-06-21 20:34:18	akoana	nifl: suffer from any identity problems?
2021-06-21 20:34:53	onelegend	akoana: I think your GCC compiler is compromised
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2021-06-21 20:35:06	<--	acid (~acid@user/acid) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:35:10	 *	rascul rules out clang
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2021-06-21 20:35:19	akoana	gcc is the worst
2021-06-21 20:35:30	onelegend	it's powerful though
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2021-06-21 20:35:44	onelegend	could you name an alternative?
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2021-06-21 20:35:59	rascul	clang
2021-06-21 20:36:22	akoana	Python (not the language)
2021-06-21 20:36:37	euouae	I've never used clang
2021-06-21 20:36:41	euouae	Why do you prefer clang to gcc?
2021-06-21 20:36:47	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:36:51	rascul	i don't prefer either
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2021-06-21 20:37:31	onelegend	I love gcc
2021-06-21 20:37:34	onelegend	gcc is the best
2021-06-21 20:37:42	rascul	best fortran compiler?
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2021-06-21 20:38:26	pnbeast	nifl, are you broken or just trolling?
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2021-06-21 20:39:53	rascul	broken trolling
2021-06-21 20:40:00	onelegend	pnbeast: his compiler is compromised
2021-06-21 20:40:03	 *	mlu breaks shit and has fun
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2021-06-21 20:42:29	rascul	https://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
2021-06-21 20:42:40	--	Guest5119 is now known as nifl
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2021-06-21 20:42:53	--	nifl is now known as Guest8125
2021-06-21 20:43:02	onelegend	nifl: are you trying to recover a nickname
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2021-06-21 20:43:43	akoana	rascul: heh, yes the The Ken Thompson Hack is weird
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2021-06-21 20:45:40	rascul	i'll never use ken thompson's compiler
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2021-06-21 20:46:00	 *	pnbeast renames Ken's compiler to something else to trick rascul.
2021-06-21 20:46:17	euouae	Heh that's freaky
2021-06-21 20:46:30	euouae	the ken thompson hack is an illustration of epistemology
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2021-06-21 20:46:52	euouae	It tells you that the only things that exist are the things that you can measure with your instruments
2021-06-21 20:47:11	<--	Guest8125 (~user@user/niflce) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:47:21	pnbeast	rascul, your instrument's made of wood, right?
2021-06-21 20:47:21	-->	nifl` (~user@user/niflce) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:47:33	rascul	yes, with rust inhibitor primer
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2021-06-21 20:47:38	euouae	pnbeast: btw, are you impersonating pnbeast ?
2021-06-21 20:47:42	-->	mIk3_08 (~Thunderbi@user/mik3-08/x-2852566) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:47:48	pnbeast	euouae, don't you trust me?
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2021-06-21 20:48:02	euouae	Your jokes are off colour
2021-06-21 20:48:09	babyface	why is there no simple easy to use search function in the Linux terminal?
2021-06-21 20:48:14	Nintendo	Just put rust inhibitor primer on Ken Thompson, and we're in business.
2021-06-21 20:48:22	grys	babyface, to search for what in what?
2021-06-21 20:48:24	rascul	babyface search function for what?
2021-06-21 20:48:27	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@205.sub-97-43-192.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 20:48:35	winircuser-318	gecko: Gecko Connect
2021-06-21 20:48:36	babyface	files and folders ofc
2021-06-21 20:48:43	rascul	what is ofc?
2021-06-21 20:48:52	Nintendo	Use find ofc.
2021-06-21 20:48:53	euouae	babyface: You can try 'apropos' for commands and ctrl+r for history. You can use 'find' for searching files and directories
2021-06-21 20:48:58	-->	walton (quassel@gateway/vpn/airvpn/walton) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:49:07	-->	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:49:10	Psi-Jack	Officer?
2021-06-21 20:49:18	pnbeast	And locate!
2021-06-21 20:49:20	grys	"of course", not "ofc"; would ``find . -name gry.txt`` or something like that work?
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2021-06-21 20:49:29	rascul	locate gry.txt
2021-06-21 20:49:47	pnbeast	What if grys isn't indexed, yet?
2021-06-21 20:49:55	pnbeast	This could take a while.
2021-06-21 20:49:59	rascul	so could find
2021-06-21 20:50:17	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:50:17	euouae	At least to me it's not OK to be refering to genitalia on #linux
2021-06-21 20:50:18	pnbeast	Why are you hatin' on find?  find is nice.
2021-06-21 20:50:18	<--	antlarr (~quassel@137.red-83-37-4.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:50:20	babyface	why do I type if I want to search my entire hard drive for files and folders beginning with "music"?
2021-06-21 20:50:39	euouae	babyface: so music is part of the filename?
2021-06-21 20:50:46	babyface	right
2021-06-21 20:50:49	rascul	find / -name "music*"
2021-06-21 20:51:17	euouae	babyface: generally you should have an idea of where your data lives; you can have /home/user/music/ for example, and start searching from there
2021-06-21 20:51:33	rascul	locate is much faster though if the index is updated regularly
2021-06-21 20:51:40	<--	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@185.156.174.4) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 20:51:43	rascul	usually there's a cron job or a systemd timer to run updatedb
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2021-06-21 20:51:51	babyface	jesus christ the find command should search the entire hard drive by default :(
2021-06-21 20:51:59	<--	delta23 (~delta23@user/delta23) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-21 20:52:00	rascul	no, it shouldn't
2021-06-21 20:52:07	rascul	there's specifications and standards
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2021-06-21 20:52:30	rascul	also "entire hard drive" isn't really an easy to grasp concept in the context of looking for a file or folder
2021-06-21 20:52:33	<--	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-21 20:52:43	pnbeast	babyface, Linux isn't for everyone.
2021-06-21 20:52:47	<--	Guest88 (~user@user/niflce) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-21 20:52:53	babyface	rascul are the "" really necessary?
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2021-06-21 20:53:03	rascul	yes
2021-06-21 20:53:12	rascul	maybe, which "" are you referring to?
2021-06-21 20:53:25	babyface	<rascul> find / -name "music*"
2021-06-21 20:53:28	rascul	"music*" must be quoted otherwise the shell will expand * and it won't do what you want
2021-06-21 20:53:30	--	nifl` is now known as nifl
2021-06-21 20:53:36	rascul	well, it might not do what you want
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2021-06-21 20:53:45	Psi-Jack	nifl: What's with all the nick changes, seriously?
2021-06-21 20:53:49	<--	quarkyalice (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-21 20:54:02	rascul	depends on certain shell options and whether or not there's something that starts with "music" in the current directory
2021-06-21 20:54:13	-->	quarkyalice (~quarkyali@172.77.20.93) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 20:54:30	Psi-Jack	Connectiion issue?
2021-06-21 20:54:32	--	nifl is now known as nifl`
2021-06-21 20:54:33	rascul	could use 'music*' instead of "music*" if you want to save your shift key
2021-06-21 20:54:34	pnbeast	!ops nifl` just keeps joining, parting and changing nicks, for over an hour.
2021-06-21 20:54:40	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 20:54:50	pnbeast	Hmm, that doesn't seem to do anything.
2021-06-21 20:55:03	rascul	pnbeast yell at them in #linux-ops
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2021-06-21 20:55:36	pnbeast	Maybe, but only because it doesn't start with two #s.
2021-06-21 20:55:51	-->	deivislk (~deivislk@189.7.117.212) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 20:55:51	rascul	two ##s are the worst
2021-06-21 20:55:56	Psi-Jack	^^
2021-06-21 20:55:57	 *	pnbeast hates ##.
2021-06-21 20:55:58	Nintendo	Agreed.
2021-06-21 20:56:10	<--	euouae (~euouae@user/euouae) has quit (Quit: euouae)
2021-06-21 20:56:12	rascul	well i really meant two #s not ####
2021-06-21 20:56:30	Nintendo	We are finally free of the tyranny of ##.
2021-06-21 20:56:30	 *	pnbeast doublehates ####.
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2021-06-21 21:00:17	-->	namsdrawkcab (~user@user/namsdrawkcab) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:00:24	Kyv	I expect to speak with someone else when I press #
2021-06-21 21:00:28	Kyv	constant source of disappointment
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2021-06-21 21:01:11	pnbeast	Okay.  Press # and I'll talk with you.  Just for a little bit.
2021-06-21 21:01:47	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@217.138.192.92) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:02:06	<--	FoodMan (~FoodMan@cpc104776-belf12-2-0-cust417.2-1.cable.virginm.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-21 21:03:35	Kyv	thats all right, I've got one of those party line games from the 80s
2021-06-21 21:03:37	<--	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@217.138.192.92) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 21:03:40	Kyv	I can just set it up and talk to Brad
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2021-06-21 21:04:15	Kyv	of course he is not the same since I loaned him to Ken Thompson
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2021-06-21 21:04:47	Kyv	Braden is acting funny too.
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2021-06-21 21:05:46	pnbeast	Okay, have it your way.  I won't say another word about it.
2021-06-21 21:05:51	Psi-Jack	Word!
2021-06-21 21:06:02	Kyv	Word, Riggs
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2021-06-21 21:15:55	grys	pnbeast, i didn't realise 'find' requires indexing; it just works for me, i dind't ask anything to build an index
2021-06-21 21:16:20	Nintendo	That would be locate.
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2021-06-21 21:16:32	name_	Hi I just installed kubernetes using the kubernetes docs but I cannot run regular commands. https://dpaste.org/F53Z
2021-06-21 21:16:34	pnbeast	grys, it makes good sense that you wouldn't realize that, since it doesn't.
2021-06-21 21:16:37	matsaman	yeah, locate makes a db from find
2021-06-21 21:16:49	rascul	grys find doesn't, locate does
2021-06-21 21:16:51	matsaman	hardly have a use for locate with solid state =)
2021-06-21 21:17:03	matsaman	but it can still be interesting to compare locate & find, to see what's enduring vs not
2021-06-21 21:17:18	matsaman	name_: using kubernetes docs? That was probably your first mistake
2021-06-21 21:17:23	rascul	locate doesn't use find
2021-06-21 21:17:28	rascul	or at least mlocate doesn't
2021-06-21 21:17:30	matsaman	name_: check if your distro has docs on the matter
2021-06-21 21:17:35	matsaman	rascul: no, what's it use?
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2021-06-21 21:17:40	rascul	libc
2021-06-21 21:17:45	name_	yea maybe you are right
2021-06-21 21:17:49	name_	using debian 10
2021-06-21 21:17:55	ayecee	it's happened before
2021-06-21 21:18:15	matsaman	why would you use libc when you could use find =P
2021-06-21 21:18:23	Nintendo	Speed.
2021-06-21 21:18:25	ayecee	so that you didn't have to use find
2021-06-21 21:18:29	rascul	why require an external utility when you can just use libc?
2021-06-21 21:18:30	matsaman	heheheheh
2021-06-21 21:18:31	matsaman	ayecee: =)
2021-06-21 21:18:48	matsaman	libc / -type f -iname '*.mp4'
2021-06-21 21:18:53	matsaman	doesn't work, that's why
2021-06-21 21:18:56	matsaman	=P
2021-06-21 21:19:11	rascul	i wonder if you're not using libc correctly
2021-06-21 21:19:19	matsaman	possible
2021-06-21 21:19:31	rascul	just run /lib/libc.so.6
2021-06-21 21:19:44	rascul	or even /lib64/libc.so.6
2021-06-21 21:20:06	rascul	did you know libs can be executed?
2021-06-21 21:20:11	ayecee	some can
2021-06-21 21:20:18	rascul	others just segfault
2021-06-21 21:20:34	ayecee	others just don't start because they don't have a main()
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2021-06-21 21:21:00	matsaman	rascul: I can't find it without locate! =P
2021-06-21 21:21:07	rascul	hehe
2021-06-21 21:22:07	rascul	i'm only aware of glibc doing something besides segfaulting when executing it though
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2021-06-21 21:23:09	matsaman	what's it do?
2021-06-21 21:23:20	ayecee	mostly shows the version
2021-06-21 21:23:21	matsaman	lecture you about removing / dirs? =P
2021-06-21 21:23:52	rascul	https://termbin.com/amrn
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2021-06-21 21:24:24	matsaman	wtf, not even MERCHANTABILITY?!
2021-06-21 21:24:35	rascul	nope, not even
2021-06-21 21:24:37	ayecee	disclaim all the things
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2021-06-21 21:24:57	 *	rascul disclaims ayecee
2021-06-21 21:25:37	ayecee	:o how could you
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2021-06-21 21:25:50	rascul	i was told to
2021-06-21 21:25:55	 *	[[R]] executes rascul 
2021-06-21 21:26:02	 *	rascul segfaults
2021-06-21 21:26:20	ayecee	ah had no choice
2021-06-21 21:26:26	rascul	just following orders
2021-06-21 21:27:23	spine-o-saurus	then dont be a slave
2021-06-21 21:27:33	[[R]]	you can't say 'slave' anymore
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2021-06-21 21:27:42	ayecee	one of the things about being a slave is that you don't get a choice about it
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2021-06-21 21:27:53	ayecee	so that's a very insensitive thing to say
2021-06-21 21:28:02	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-21 21:28:26	rascul	some people went into slavery willingly
2021-06-21 21:28:35	rascul	like romans back in the day and stuff, to pay of debts or something
2021-06-21 21:28:47	matsaman	then it's not _technically_ slavery
2021-06-21 21:28:47	ayecee	thanks professor
2021-06-21 21:28:59	spine-o-saurus	that explains why prostitution is still booming
2021-06-21 21:29:03	matsaman	but obviously many people are ultimately enslaved to something
2021-06-21 21:29:15	ayecee	well no, supply and demand does that
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2021-06-21 21:30:49	rascul	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage
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2021-06-21 21:31:27	ayecee	is that the same as indentured servitude
2021-06-21 21:31:54	rascul	i dunno
2021-06-21 21:32:04	rascul	wikipedia has a separate page for it though  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude
2021-06-21 21:32:18	[[R]]	rascul: sounds kinky
2021-06-21 21:32:44	rascul	indentured servitude seems not so far from unpaid internship
2021-06-21 21:32:48	matsaman	anyway, the point is if you walk up to someone who was a regular old slave
2021-06-21 21:32:56	matsaman	and said "we're the same 'cause I signed up for a mortgage"
2021-06-21 21:33:00	matsaman	you'd probably get punched, at least
2021-06-21 21:33:08	rascul	i don't know any regular old slaves
2021-06-21 21:33:12	-->	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:33:13	ayecee	well kind of except you don't have to pay if you walk away from an unpaid internship
2021-06-21 21:33:14	matsaman	rascul: man, go outside
2021-06-21 21:33:15	matsaman	=)
2021-06-21 21:33:21	rascul	i was outside most of the day
2021-06-21 21:33:29	matsaman	ayecee: you make a good point
2021-06-21 21:33:34	[[R]]	rascul: what about irregular new ones?
2021-06-21 21:33:35	matsaman	can't we charge unpaid interns to be our interns?
2021-06-21 21:33:41	-->	ferry2 (~Ferry@pool-108-30-49-67.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:33:49	rascul	[[R]] i don't know any of those either
2021-06-21 21:33:56	-->	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:34:06	[[R]]	what do you know!
2021-06-21 21:34:08	-->	sg2k (~scott@pool-100-15-97-254.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 21:34:39	rascul	i know that peach pie is delicious
2021-06-21 21:34:45	pnbeast	[[R]], just get some more fiber and it'll clear up that irregularity.
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2021-06-21 21:34:59	[[R]]	pnbeast: i eat a fiber bar every now and then, it seems to help
2021-06-21 21:35:08	[[R]]	rascul: princess peach!?
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2021-06-21 21:35:14	rascul	i don't eat princesses
2021-06-21 21:35:34	[[R]]	i should hope not
2021-06-21 21:35:38	ayecee	you got something against princesses?!
2021-06-21 21:35:38	[[R]]	they'll send you to the stockade
2021-06-21 21:35:49	rascul	princesses just don't taste all that great
2021-06-21 21:36:07	ayecee	also they're not often in season
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2021-06-21 21:37:11	rascul	i only ever knew of one princess anyway and she's dead
2021-06-21 21:37:36	ayecee	rough
2021-06-21 21:37:48	mckayshirou	Fun Fact: i make more money seeing the ads in tutorials page, than coding 1k javascript lines
2021-06-21 21:37:53	rascul	she died in a car crash in paris while fleeing paparazzi
2021-06-21 21:37:57	<--	Curve25519ChaCha (~Username@user/curve25519chacha) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 21:38:07	rascul	or so wikipedia tells me
2021-06-21 21:38:10	ayecee	you make money seeing ads?
2021-06-21 21:38:25	rascul	mckayshirou i make more money chasing cows then i ever did writing code
2021-06-21 21:38:30	-->	Curve25519ChaCha (~Username@user/curve25519chacha) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:38:32	 *	pnbeast resolves to enable javascript so he can see more ads.
2021-06-21 21:38:34	[[R]]	rascul: she was the people's princess
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2021-06-21 21:38:42	rascul	[[R]] she wasn't my princess
2021-06-21 21:38:45	mckayshirou	yes
2021-06-21 21:38:49	[[R]]	rascul: you're not people
2021-06-21 21:38:50	ayecee	i didn't vote for her
2021-06-21 21:38:56	 *	rascul votes for ayecee
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2021-06-21 21:39:07	ayecee	ayecee for princess
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2021-06-21 21:39:09	 *	mckayshirou votes for rascul
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2021-06-21 21:39:25	mckayshirou	duh
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2021-06-21 21:39:45	pnbeast	I will sell my vote to the highest bidder.  Who wants to be princess bad enough to PAY ME!!??
2021-06-21 21:40:05	mckayshirou	i pay 120 terabytes of randomness
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2021-06-21 21:40:23	 *	pnbeast calls /dev/random to see if it's buying, today.
2021-06-21 21:40:39	Two_Dogs	i am trying to understand rolling release specific to debian, if at debian 10, does one roll into debian 11 or does one have to do something to end on 11?
2021-06-21 21:40:39	-->	gector (~gector@2601:1c2:4a02:3210:9333:fd6a:41e7:40d) has joined #linux
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2021-06-21 21:40:59	mckayshirou	just do a dist upgrade
2021-06-21 21:41:13	mckayshirou	simple as that, for medium user
2021-06-21 21:41:30	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 21:41:38	[[R]]	Two_Dogs: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade
2021-06-21 21:42:10	name__	i figured out my problem
2021-06-21 21:42:26	rascul	was it me?
2021-06-21 21:42:33	name__	no lol
2021-06-21 21:42:39	rascul	good
2021-06-21 21:42:44	rascul	i was worried for a bit
2021-06-21 21:43:14	mckayshirou	a bad thing about almost every system is that you can control everything if you have the physical device
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2021-06-21 21:43:38	 *	[[R]] controls rascul 
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2021-06-21 21:43:41	rob`	mckayshirou: you aren't kidding. Dell includes an override code for BIOS passwords. :/
2021-06-21 21:43:41	 *	mckayshirou blames /etc/shadow
2021-06-21 21:43:46	pnbeast	I like to control systems.  I think that's a good thing.
2021-06-21 21:43:49	rob`	tons of annoying things like that
2021-06-21 21:43:59	mckayshirou	yes i am not kidding
2021-06-21 21:44:08	<--	sozuba (sozuba@user/sozuba) has quit (Quit: sozuba)
2021-06-21 21:44:23	mckayshirou	i just can extract everything from the disk and bye bye
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2021-06-21 21:44:29	rob`	you can make physical access hack-resistant to some extent. Padlocks, passwords, epoxy, but it'll just delay you, not stop you
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2021-06-21 21:44:41	rob`	full-disk encryption helps
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2021-06-21 21:45:20	mckayshirou	yes, but delay is not useful when someone haves it is the hands
2021-06-21 21:45:35	Two_Dogs	mckayshirou, [[R]] thnks
2021-06-21 21:46:00	rob`	well, delay is useful when you can couple it with, eg, security personnel doing patrols in student computer labs
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2021-06-21 21:46:21	rob`	but that only catches the egregious stuff, and it's not hard to socially engineer yourself past a security guard
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2021-06-21 21:46:59	mckayshirou	as debian 9, how much virtuals terminals (a.k.a. "tty's" ) can be used to run x enviroments?
2021-06-21 21:47:02	rascul	no security is perfect
2021-06-21 21:47:12	rascul	also, $5 wrenches exist (but they might be $15 now)
2021-06-21 21:47:42	mckayshirou	carcels exists (and they might be perpetue now)
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2021-06-21 21:48:16	pnbeast	[[R]], if you loan me a 15 dollar wrench, now, I'll gladly pay you five dollars next Tuesday.
2021-06-21 21:48:21	mckayshirou	most justice authorityes does not consider cyber-things important
2021-06-21 21:48:24	[[R]]	pnbeast: rofl
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2021-06-21 21:49:07	 *	mckayshirou opens empthy pockets, and make some loan
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2021-06-21 21:51:13	mckayshirou	heh
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2021-06-21 21:51:56	onelegend	[[R]]: I forgot my key, what are you gonna do about it?
2021-06-21 21:51:57	mckayshirou	did not even notice that you can passwd as root yourself and does not even ask for actual password, in debian 6 (ignore this pagraph)
2021-06-21 21:52:06	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 21:52:18	 *	onelegend encrypts [[R]] with AES-256 XTS
2021-06-21 21:52:44	 *	rascul gives onelegend a key
2021-06-21 21:53:29	rascul	mckayshirou if passwd asked root for the password to change the password then i suspect there would be a lot more hand editing of /etc/shadow than there is now
2021-06-21 21:53:31	 *	mckayshirou takes onelegend sda* , modify the hash and gives it to [[R]]
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2021-06-21 21:54:17	mckayshirou	yes there was
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2021-06-21 21:54:38	mckayshirou	i have modyfied destroyed and rebuilded this pc
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2021-06-21 21:54:55	mckayshirou	i do now even know if the hardware is correct
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2021-06-21 22:04:33	mckayshirou	When Init or crucial processes try to acces /proc/kcore (or the RAM) and you keep reading it, the computer will reboot, however keyboard inputs will be disabled until it end booting
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2021-06-21 22:17:05	indyZ	Anyone ever have an issue with Atril PDF viewer, where sone PDFs render upside down?
2021-06-21 22:17:23	<--	inisheer (~Inisheer@047-132-204-067.res.spectrum.com) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 22:17:27	indyZ	one of my school textbooks is upside down in Atril.
2021-06-21 22:17:33	pnbeast	indyZ, I'm sorry.  I broke into your house last night and flipped your monitor.  I won't do it any more.
2021-06-21 22:17:39	indyZ	pnbeast: Dangit.
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2021-06-21 22:17:57	matsaman	indyZ: a lot of PDF viewers will let you rotate the view from the GUI
2021-06-21 22:18:25	Nintendo	lol @ pnbeast
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2021-06-21 22:20:27	Nintendo	Also, what matsaman said, but if Atril doesn't have that option, you can have lots of fun with $( xrandr --rotate inverted ).
2021-06-21 22:21:20	indyZ	Well, I just tried Okular and it's fine. So long, Atril.
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2021-06-21 22:21:49	matsaman	could honestly be that the PDF is terrible, most are
2021-06-21 22:21:50	matsaman	but
2021-06-21 22:21:55	matsaman	if it doesn't rotate that's a real problem
2021-06-21 22:21:57	indyZ	it's directly from CompTIA. lol
2021-06-21 22:22:04	--	TheFatherMind- is now known as TheFatherMind
2021-06-21 22:22:11	matsaman	'cause plenty of PDFs that show in the "right" orientiation will still be in the wrong orientation
2021-06-21 22:22:13	pnbeast	Then upside down might be its natural state.
2021-06-21 22:22:21	indyZ	I don't see that option in Atril.
2021-06-21 22:22:23	indyZ	to rotate.
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2021-06-21 22:22:32	matsaman	that's a good reason to use something else, IMO
2021-06-21 22:22:33	[[R]]	what kind of garbage pdf viewer doesnt have rotate
2021-06-21 22:22:39	indyZ	not that it's a huge deal, since this other PDF viewer works. But I do wonder why it's upside down.
2021-06-21 22:22:44	matsaman	if you wanted to be extra nice, leave them a bug that said you left for a viewer with reasonable features
2021-06-21 22:22:45	[[R]]	what the hell is atril anyway
2021-06-21 22:22:47	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-21 22:22:50	indyZ	[[R]]: the kind that's set to be default in Xubuntu.
2021-06-21 22:22:52	indyZ	lame as hell
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2021-06-21 22:23:43	Kyv	I've only used Atril briefly when it came installed on some Xfce machine.
2021-06-21 22:23:54	-->	quarkyalice (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) has joined #linux
2021-06-21 22:23:59	Kyv	Quickly replaced by Zathura.
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2021-06-21 22:24:01	Nintendo	If you like keyboard controls, you might like <https://github.com/moosotc/llpp>.
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2021-06-21 22:24:08	indyZ	yeah, so far okular is looking better. Zathura? I'll try that one.
2021-06-21 22:24:09	indyZ	Nintendo: I do
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2021-06-21 22:24:33	Kyv	indyZ: it has no GUI to speak of and uses vi key bindings, if that isnt your thing, skip.
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2021-06-21 22:24:40	matsaman	IIRC, okular is the KDE one, and zathura the GNOME one
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2021-06-21 22:24:55	indyZ	Kyv: honestly, it sounds like something I'd quickly get used to.
2021-06-21 22:25:10	indyZ	matsaman: interesting
2021-06-21 22:25:21	matsaman	maybe zathura is merely the GTK one
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2021-06-21 22:25:51	matsaman	doesn't really matter what you use, of course, mostly
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2021-06-21 22:27:59	Kyv	Zathura requires girara only, in that regard.
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2021-06-21 22:31:27	Kyv	indyZ: if you are trying that and using a Debian-based distro, probably install mupdf instead.
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2021-06-21 22:31:53	curdlesnoot	Jacki: which program is producing a status of 256?
2021-06-21 22:31:55	Kyv	You will get support for more formats that way, as the Debian team has some hangups about providing the backends for Zathura proper.
2021-06-21 22:31:59	indyZ	man, there are more PDF viewers for Linux than I expected.
2021-06-21 22:32:10	indyZ	Kyv: yeah? interesting.
2021-06-21 22:32:11	rascul	okular is the big one with all the features
2021-06-21 22:32:35	[[R]]	rascul: are you fat shaming it!?
2021-06-21 22:32:40	rascul	yes
2021-06-21 22:32:57	Jacki	my script
2021-06-21 22:33:06	rascul	your script
2021-06-21 22:33:48	rascul	oh i could say more than that
2021-06-21 22:33:55	rascul	could you share your script?
2021-06-21 22:34:05	Jacki	no
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2021-06-21 22:34:25	curdlesnoot	Jacki: can you clarify? bash doesn't deal with values outside of the range of 0-255, but a native status value of 256 has a meaning. how do you collect the value, 256, exactly?
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2021-06-21 22:35:45	Jacki	it should return 1
2021-06-21 22:36:04	Jacki	i havent asked this question here anyway
2021-06-21 22:36:07	curdlesnoot	that's not an answer
2021-06-21 22:36:11	curdlesnoot	alright. suit yourself.
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2021-06-21 22:36:41	Jacki	no, please, whats the meaning ?
2021-06-21 22:36:45	curdlesnoot	lol
2021-06-21 22:37:02	curdlesnoot	if you answer my question, I'll answer yours. deal?
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2021-06-21 22:37:33	curdlesnoot	context matters, you see.
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2021-06-21 22:38:18	Jacki	no
2021-06-21 22:38:56	Jacki	i think that 256 means 256 - 255 = 1
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2021-06-21 22:39:14	rascul	how are you getting the value?
2021-06-21 22:39:22	Psi-Jack	Math!
2021-06-21 22:39:34	curdlesnoot	if you exit 256 explicitly from bash, it will mean 1, yes
2021-06-21 22:39:38	rascul	how do you see the 256 return value i mean
2021-06-21 22:39:52	curdlesnoot	it's amost as of "range of 0-255" matters and there's overflowing involved. but again, context.
2021-06-21 22:40:15	Jacki	i get it with c++ system()
2021-06-21 22:40:18	curdlesnoot	256 could mean something completely different. if you want to play the pulling teeth game though, fine.
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2021-06-21 22:41:02	 *	[[R]] pulls rascul's tooth
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2021-06-21 22:42:07	Bocaneri	.oO( eight bit return values are more than enough to cover all possible use cases through the end of the next millennium )
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2021-06-21 22:45:30	curdlesnoot	Jacki: 256 >> 8 = 1 (there's your exit code)
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2021-06-21 22:46:21	curdlesnoot	Jacki: the lower 7 bits are the signal number. the 8th bit is whether core was dumped, iirc.
2021-06-21 22:46:47	curdlesnoot	dunno about C++ but C has a bunch of W* macros in wait.h to handle status values properly.
2021-06-21 22:46:58	curdlesnoot	WEXITSTATUS and such
2021-06-21 22:47:32	Jacki	fuck, read here: https://www.shellscript.sh/exitcodes.html
2021-06-21 22:47:57	Jacki	"Other numbers can be used, but these are treated modulo 256"
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2021-06-21 22:49:09	Bocaneri	The  exit()  function  causes  normal  process  termination  and  the  value of status & 0xFF is returned to the parent # according to man 2 exit
2021-06-21 22:49:22	curdlesnoot	bash cannot, itself, exit with an exit code of 256. it's simply impossible. and there's a difference between how bash synthesizes $? and how *native* status values work.
2021-06-21 22:49:38	curdlesnoot	I'm perfectly aware of the overflowing behaviour of bash.
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2021-06-21 22:49:48	Bocaneri	I apologise, that was man 3, not man2.
2021-06-21 22:50:19	Bocaneri	Also, Jacki, mind the language.
2021-06-21 22:50:41	Jacki	yeah, in terminal return 1
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2021-06-21 22:58:57	curdlesnoot	perl -E 'system "bash", "-c", "exit 257"; say join("\t", ${^CHILD_ERROR_NATIVE}, $? >> 8)'
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2021-06-21 22:59:21	curdlesnoot	native value is 256. portion that represents exit code (not signal) is 1.
2021-06-21 22:59:27	Jacki	i have to divide by 256
2021-06-21 22:59:45	Jacki	?
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2021-06-21 22:59:55	curdlesnoot	bitshift. I've said this twice now.
2021-06-21 23:00:35	curdlesnoot	but don't even do that. use whatever C++ gives you to handle status values properly if dealing with native stuff because it's platform-dependent.
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2021-06-21 23:05:36	Gustavo6046	apprentice linux, artisan linux, bishop linux, arch linux, pope linux
2021-06-21 23:05:38	curdlesnoot	in short, bash synthesizes $? to be an 8-bit value that's the same no matter where bash is running. it represents only the exit code unless a singal was observed, in which case it adds 128+(signal no). a proper status value is platform-dependent but typically a 16-bit value, where the higher 8 bits contain the exit code.
2021-06-21 23:05:44	Gustavo6046	yes I think we need a Pope Linux to pope them all
2021-06-21 23:06:19	matsaman	Gustavo6046: hear haer
2021-06-21 23:06:22	matsaman	and hare
2021-06-21 23:06:22	<--	zeropoint46 (~zeropoint@47-144-204-41.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-21 23:06:57	Gustavo6046	hic sunt linuces
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2021-06-21 23:07:12	Gustavo6046	I mean technically it isn't untrue, is it. There are Linuxes here
2021-06-21 23:07:19	curdlesnoot	if you're using anything in C++ that returns a native status value, use WEXITSTATUS to extract just the exit code or whatever the hell it offers that is equivalent.
2021-06-21 23:07:33	Dagmar	The good news is that 99% of the time it boils down to just $? >> 8 != 0 is bad and you should exit.
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2021-06-21 23:07:53	curdlesnoot	yeah.
2021-06-21 23:08:05	Dagmar	...but for god's sake check it
2021-06-21 23:08:30	Dagmar	THe number of times I've seen a process just run amok because something unexpected happen and someone didn't check the return values...  Sheehs.
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2021-06-21 23:13:45	Jacki	before wexitstatus
2021-06-21 23:13:53	Jacki	i should test WIFEXITED
2021-06-21 23:14:02	Jacki	.........
2021-06-21 23:14:22	curdlesnoot	if you want to code defensively and also respond to signals, that's a good idea, yes.
2021-06-21 23:14:48	Bocaneri	I'm confused. 'man exit' says exit() returns its argument & 0xff, but that's not what curddlesnoot's code returns.
2021-06-21 23:14:55	curdlesnoot	as is implied, a program may not even get to formally exit.
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2021-06-21 23:15:28	Jacki	can I do something on the bash script ? like clear former error ?
2021-06-21 23:15:49	Bocaneri	Oh. He didn't say '256', he said '257'.
2021-06-21 23:15:51	Dagmar	It's not really something you "clear"
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2021-06-21 23:16:53	Jacki	you know, linux is magic
2021-06-21 23:16:57	Linkandzelda	anyone know a good provider of storage that i can mount on any server as a filesystem with reasonable speed?
2021-06-21 23:17:10	<--	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-21 23:17:23	Dagmar	It's been said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
2021-06-21 23:17:41	<--	Menzador (~quassel@user/menzador) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-21 23:17:49	Dagmar	Personally, I feel s/is/should be/; s/magic/necromancy/;
2021-06-21 23:17:59	c705	s3 is great if you don't actually need the filesystem which is likely
2021-06-21 23:18:28	spine-o-saurus	physics becomes magic when you get deep enough
2021-06-21 23:19:03	Linkandzelda	c705: i was hoping to put a borg backup repo on it
2021-06-21 23:19:24	c705	i don't know what that is, but if you can use an api, then you can use s3
2021-06-21 23:19:26	quartz	Does anyone use libre wolf browser?
2021-06-21 23:19:29	curdlesnoot	Bocaneri: oh, the 257 was just to incorporate the topic of how bash exit overflows, given that it came up. the actual exit code of bash ends up being 1. the native status value is 256, as the exit code is in the higher 8-bits.
2021-06-21 23:19:39	c705	i don't even think you need the api anymore
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2021-06-21 23:20:08	 *	rascul uses c705's api
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2021-06-21 23:20:21	Dagmar	I have tried asking the Amazon reps that call about some iPhone someone ordered, but they're really not very well trained in the S3 API
2021-06-21 23:20:27	 *	c705 invalidates rascul's token
2021-06-21 23:20:32	rascul	:(
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2021-06-21 23:21:09	Splittikin	quartz: I use librewolf, yeah
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2021-06-21 23:21:49	quartz	Splittikin: DO you like it? I'm on Manjaro KDE and I wanted something that super privacy friendly and able to adapt to my global theme/window decorations.
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2021-06-21 23:22:22	quartz	My theming does not work on firefox for some reason.
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2021-06-21 23:22:48	Dagmar	It does not necessarily use the widgets you think it does
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2021-06-21 23:23:18	rascul	firefox draws a bunch of its own stuff if i recall correctly
2021-06-21 23:23:25	 *	[[R]] draws rascul 
2021-06-21 23:23:31	 *	rascul scribbles [[R]]
2021-06-21 23:23:42	quartz	Dagmar: I just want it to adapt to the theming I set throughout my system. Mainly, I want the window decorations to be the same, and I'd like firefox to follow the same global theme.
2021-06-21 23:24:02	Dagmar	You're going to have some fun then.
2021-06-21 23:24:13	Dagmar	It literally has it's own widgets
2021-06-21 23:24:19	quartz	Dagmar: SO you're saying it's not possible?
2021-06-21 23:24:20	quartz	Oh
2021-06-21 23:24:21	Bocaneri	curdlesnoot, yeah.
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2021-06-21 23:24:33	curdlesnoot	Jacki: running "true" or ":" will reset $? to 0 in a shell script. exit 0 will exit 0 (obviously). command_that_may_fail_but_i_dont_care || : will prevent $? from being set to a non-zero value in the event that the command fails. if you don't formally invoke "exit" in a script, it normally ends up exiting with whatever the value of $? is at the time.
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2021-06-21 23:24:34	quartz	Well, I'm plannong on ditching firefox alltogether.
2021-06-21 23:24:57	Kyv	Librewolf is good. I have been using it, and I like it.
2021-06-21 23:25:01	Dagmar	No, I'm saying it's kind of a pain
2021-06-21 23:25:10	rascul	using librewolf isn't exactly ditching firefox
2021-06-21 23:25:13	Splittikin	quartz: I do like librewolf a lot. The compiling time for me is astronomically long though, making it a real pain to install or update but once it's done it works great. I actually use it becuase all of the telemetry junk being removed makes it easier on the computer (which is very valuable for me being on a very low-end system.)
2021-06-21 23:25:15	curdlesnoot	Jacki: also, if; then; fi always leaves $? as 0, if the command/condition fails.
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2021-06-21 23:25:39	Dagmar	_Probably_ it's using some Firefox theme, in which case it'll completely ignore any .gtkrc-like stuff
2021-06-21 23:25:55	Bocaneri	I wouldn't build *any* browser without compelling reason for that exact reason: it takes calendar time.
2021-06-21 23:25:57	Dagmar	Hunt it down in the settings
2021-06-21 23:26:24	quartz	Splittikin: YOu compiled it? Wow. I was trying to install it on my Manjaro machine and I wasn't sure if I needed the regular librewolf package or the librewolf-bin
2021-06-21 23:26:50	Kyv	rascul: it isnt ditching Firefox, but what modern alternative isnt gecko/chromium-based?
2021-06-21 23:26:52	quartz	Dagmar: So it's possible to get firefox to adapt to my theming?
2021-06-21 23:26:56	Dagmar	Yes
2021-06-21 23:27:05	quartz	BUt how?
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2021-06-21 23:27:10	Dagmar	By Googling
2021-06-21 23:27:15	quartz	:)
2021-06-21 23:27:23	rascul	Kyv safari but that's probably not quite what you're looking for
2021-06-21 23:27:53	johnnyapol	mozilla's build system has a nice touch where it dispatches a notification when it finishes.  definitely nice when having to do clean builds of firefox, but its also simple enough to code in using notify-send
2021-06-21 23:27:54	[[R]]	is konqueror still a thing?
2021-06-21 23:28:32	indyZ	heh. I remember when Konqueror/KFM was my web browser of choice.
2021-06-21 23:28:40	indyZ	back in the bad old days.
2021-06-21 23:28:42	Jacki	curdlesnoot, idk i put exits in the if
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2021-06-21 23:30:09	rascul	[[R]] looks like konquerer had a release 11 days ago
2021-06-21 23:30:22	Splittikin	quartz: Yeah I just installed the package `librewolf` through pamac. (I'm on Manjaro too!) I actually wasn't aware of the binary package at all until now. I would've just installed that if I knew it existed haha.
2021-06-21 23:30:25	rascul	https://kde.org/announcements/gear/21.04.2/
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2021-06-21 23:31:04	Splittikin	You're probably better off going with the binary if it works.
2021-06-21 23:31:05	[[R]]	rascul: but is it still a kickass web browser?
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2021-06-21 23:31:36	rascul	was it ever a kickass web browser?
2021-06-21 23:32:08	quartz	Splittikin: Yeah pamac just told me One or more PGP signatures could not be verified!" when I tried to download Librewolf-bin
2021-06-21 23:32:10	indyZ	It was when the alternatives were Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape 4.63.
2021-06-21 23:32:17	[[R]]	rascul: back in the day it was
2021-06-21 23:32:25	indyZ	and, uh. Dillo.
2021-06-21 23:32:27	matsaman	konqueror?
2021-06-21 23:32:30	<--	kollinz (~morpheus@user/kollinz) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-21 23:32:32	indyZ	yes matsaman
2021-06-21 23:32:34	matsaman	I mean Chrome owes it a lot
2021-06-21 23:32:40	indyZ	safari, too
2021-06-21 23:32:42	[[R]]	rascul: hwy do you think apple stole webkit from kde?
2021-06-21 23:32:55	matsaman	the whole web, really, it pushed a lot of good tech early on
2021-06-21 23:32:58	rascul	good browser engine doesn't make a good browser though
2021-06-21 23:33:03	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-21 23:33:10	[[R]]	vroom vroom
2021-06-21 23:33:12	matsaman	good browser, like any of us have used one of those in five years
2021-06-21 23:33:14	rascul	and if it does, well, i don't like konqueror, safari, or chrome....
2021-06-21 23:33:22	tusko	chrome hurts people
2021-06-21 23:33:26	Kyv	https://tilde.club/~acz/shadow_wiki/browsers.xhtml - netsurf got a low spyware ranking for fetching the Google search icon at startup :|
2021-06-21 23:33:30	Kyv	I fixed it, though.
2021-06-21 23:33:36	matsaman	konqueror was fine, although installing all of KDE's libs was burdensome
2021-06-21 23:33:46	indyZ	well, before Firefox (Phoenix) came along, the browsers available for Linux were fairly abysmal. I remember using Konqueror because Netscape had become quite unstable.
2021-06-21 23:33:48	curdlesnoot	Jacki: that's up to you. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between, say "if false; then ...; fi" and "false && ...". in the first case false fails, but if - itself - leaves $? as 0. && won't.
2021-06-21 23:33:50	matsaman	Kyv: =)
2021-06-21 23:33:54	rascul	i've yet to see something that came from khtml or its children that i cared to use
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2021-06-21 23:34:01	rascul	s/something/a browser/
2021-06-21 23:34:11	Splittikin	quartz: That was happening for me with the regular librewolf package too. I just set it to ignore the one file that wasn't verifying
2021-06-21 23:34:12	matsaman	because you don't see it
2021-06-21 23:34:15	matsaman	you're using it, though
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2021-06-21 23:34:43	quartz	Splittikin: Isn't that a security risk? :(
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2021-06-21 23:34:49	rascul	there's one thing i use which is not a browser which uses something descended from khtml
2021-06-21 23:34:52	matsaman	and even if you weren't using something derived from it, again, it fed a lot of competition
2021-06-21 23:34:57	rascul	sure
2021-06-21 23:35:06	rascul	that's not relevant to me liking the browsers that use it
2021-06-21 23:35:09	Jacki	ok thanks curdlesnoot and others
2021-06-21 23:35:12	matsaman	rascul: sure
2021-06-21 23:35:19	matsaman	UIs aren't backends, it's still true
2021-06-21 23:35:24	Jacki	i ended doing an ugly : if (s > 255) s/=256;
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2021-06-21 23:35:32	matsaman	but the konqueror UI was perfectly ordinary
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2021-06-21 23:35:54	rascul	from what i recall, i didn't like konqueror because it was choppy when i scrolled
2021-06-21 23:36:02	rascul	and probably some other reasons that i don't recall
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2021-06-21 23:36:28	matsaman	sounds like a KDE issue honestly =P
2021-06-21 23:36:31	matsaman	but still fair
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2021-06-21 23:36:33	spine-o-saurus	that just means its faster than what your GPU can handle
2021-06-21 23:36:42	rascul	maybe, but i had the same issue with chrome/chromium
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2021-06-21 23:36:58	rascul	*have
2021-06-21 23:37:02	spine-o-saurus	turn down the refresh rate
2021-06-21 23:37:12	Kyv	yeah that sort of thing can really put one off from browsing the web
2021-06-21 23:37:16	rascul	somehow firefox scrolls just fine out of the box without hurting my eyes
2021-06-21 23:37:32	rascul	but that's not something that either kde or google has accomplished
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2021-06-21 23:38:02	indyZ	by the time Phoenix came out (later renamed Firefox) there wasn't a good reason to browse the web with konqueror anymore, imo.
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2021-06-21 23:38:29	Splittikin	quartz: Yeah it probably isn't a very good idea. I just did it because it seemed like a pretty innocuous file. (It probably isn't but I didn't really care that much.) Don't be like me haha.
2021-06-21 23:38:33	curdlesnoot	Jacki: if you want to do it the lazy way, you could probably just get away with "if (s != 0) { .... }". because, it it's not zero, either the exit code was bad, it core dumped (definitely bad) or it was interrupted by a signal (usually considered as bad).
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2021-06-21 23:38:55	Jacki	i wonder when the linux community will wakes up and makes a new browser !!! its horrible what we are acepting using ff
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2021-06-21 23:39:15	Kyv	They do and they die
2021-06-21 23:39:16	rascul	the linux community has made a bunch of browsers though
2021-06-21 23:39:16	Jacki	tnx cur
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2021-06-21 23:39:43	pnbeast	Thank you, Jacki, it's very good of you to point out what you failed to do.
2021-06-21 23:39:52	indyZ	Jacki: what's wrong with firefox?
2021-06-21 23:40:01	Kyv	It is not a Linux issue. The web is shite.
2021-06-21 23:40:07	[[R]]	rascul: how many have you made
2021-06-21 23:40:10	indyZ	Kyv: agreed
2021-06-21 23:40:15	quartz	Splittikin: Did you have to install the yay AUR helper? Why isn't it installed by default in Manjoar?
2021-06-21 23:40:19	quartz	Manjoro*
2021-06-21 23:40:22	quartz	ahh
2021-06-21 23:40:25	Bocaneri	Jacki, "thanks", not "tnx".
2021-06-21 23:40:26	rascul	[[R]] i actually did make one a bunch of years ago
2021-06-21 23:40:38	rascul	it barely worked, but it worked enough to qualify as a web browser
2021-06-21 23:40:49	Jacki	good job!
2021-06-21 23:40:57	[[R]]	rascul: well aren't you mr fancy
2021-06-21 23:41:01	[[R]]	look at me, i made a web browser
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2021-06-21 23:41:07	[[R]]	would you like a sticker?
2021-06-21 23:41:17	rascul	if you had seen my web browser you would not be calling me mr fancy
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2021-06-21 23:41:21	rascul	but i would like a sticker please
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2021-06-21 23:41:34	pnbeast	[[R]], please give Mr. Fancy a sticker.
2021-06-21 23:41:36	<--	deivislk (~deivislk@189.7.117.212) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-21 23:41:40	Kyv	you might be passing out the stickers a bit too liberally
2021-06-21 23:41:47	 *	[[R]] makes a stick that says "worlds worst web browser vendor"
2021-06-21 23:41:51	Jacki	no reason to make fun of someone who made a browser
2021-06-21 23:42:18	[[R]]	Jacki: awww... who should i make fun of them?
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2021-06-21 23:42:33	[[R]]	would you take the bullet?
2021-06-21 23:42:36	Jacki	google
2021-06-21 23:42:54	Jacki	yes but gtg
2021-06-21 23:42:56	Kyv	the kids in shop class who couldnt make their lamp turn on when the spotlight hit them
2021-06-21 23:42:56	Jacki	bye
2021-06-21 23:42:59	Kyv	and it was their time to shine
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2021-06-21 23:43:35	[[R]]	i never took shop class
2021-06-21 23:43:39	[[R]]	i did take that one where you did stuff with wood
2021-06-21 23:43:45	rascul	my web browser really was junk, i was trying to embed gecko at the same time i was starting to learn gtk and the result was not very usable
2021-06-21 23:43:47	[[R]]	i think i was pretty bad at time
2021-06-21 23:43:49	[[R]]	at it*
2021-06-21 23:43:52	Kyv	[[R]]: culinary arts?
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2021-06-21 23:44:00	[[R]]	no wood, not food
2021-06-21 23:44:01	[[R]]	close
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2021-06-21 23:44:16	rascul	woodworking
2021-06-21 23:44:21	Splittikin	quartz: I just used Pamac on the terminal. I don't recall needing to install anything before that to make it work.
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2021-06-21 23:44:25	pnbeast	[[R]], so earlier rascul was saying he had wood.  What could you do with that?
2021-06-21 23:44:31	Kyv	shop class = woodworking & co
2021-06-21 23:44:35	[[R]]	pnbeast: cut it in half
2021-06-21 23:44:42	Kyv	you can eat wood, presumably
2021-06-21 23:44:45	pnbeast	Doh!
2021-06-21 23:44:47	rascul	you wouldn't even plane it first?
2021-06-21 23:44:53	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-21 23:45:56	matsaman	wood is just tough plant
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2021-06-21 23:46:20	Kyv	rascul: you dont plane wood
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2021-06-21 23:46:24	Kyv	it ruins the mouthfeel
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2021-06-21 23:46:29	rascul	i do, with a planer
2021-06-21 23:46:34	rascul	sometimes
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2021-06-21 23:47:36	rascul	mostly i use an electric hand planer or a surface planer but i have a few non electric planes around for decoration
2021-06-21 23:48:04	rascul	they're too much work to actually use
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2021-06-21 23:48:58	Kyv	they keep you fit though
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2021-06-21 23:49:08	Kyv	plus they can be a good way to spend time with others
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2021-06-21 23:49:17	Kyv	same with splinters
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2021-06-21 23:49:45	rascul	i plane by myself
2021-06-21 23:50:08	Kyv	rascul: you dont plane by yourself
2021-06-21 23:50:21	Kyv	that is called whittling
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2021-06-21 23:50:43	Kyv	you're a whittling rascul
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2021-06-21 23:53:08	rascul	i don't whittle it takes way too long
2021-06-21 23:53:29	rascul	i have power saws and stuff
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2021-06-21 23:56:48	[[R]]	you don't whittle while you work?
2021-06-21 23:56:56	Samizdat	Surely we can make exception for the signature Klingon greeting, "May your blood scream!" or "'IwlIj jachjaj!" (pronounced YOU leej JACH jaj) https://hol.kag.org/media/tts/audio_ziwlijjacjaj.mp3 .
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2021-06-21 23:57:00	rascul	no, i don't
2021-06-21 23:59:28	[[R]]	you're missing out
2021-06-21 23:59:41	rascul	oh well
2021-06-22 00:00:05	tusko	are you lactating?
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2021-06-22 00:02:15	Kyv	poignant question
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2021-06-22 00:02:18	Kyv	smack on the hour
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2021-06-22 00:02:49	rascul	smack that
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2021-06-22 00:07:14	rindolf	Samizdat: klingons: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Selina-Mandrake/ongoing-text.html#selina-and-the-three
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2021-06-22 00:13:00	quartz	Why are there different package managers? They all do the same thing.... pacman, apt, its the same. I do't get it
2021-06-22 00:13:25	tusko	then its not time for you to know
2021-06-22 00:13:42	tusko	package managers also do different things
2021-06-22 00:13:54	matsaman	quartz: indeed, why don't we all just use 'rm'
2021-06-22 00:13:57	[[R]]	quartz: why are there differnet web browsers? they all do the same thing
2021-06-22 00:14:04	matsaman	oh wait that's the answer, some are crap and some are lovely
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2021-06-22 00:14:13	[[R]]	quartz: why are there differnet computer manufactueres? they all make the same thing
2021-06-22 00:14:26	[[R]]	quartz: shall i go on?
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2021-06-22 00:14:51	matsaman	anyway, the boring real answer is: people have different preferences
2021-06-22 00:15:00	matsaman	some people like a package manager that isn't terrible, for example
2021-06-22 00:15:05	quartz	[[R]]: But how is apt different from pacman?
2021-06-22 00:15:09	matsaman	and some people are happy with Red Hat
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2021-06-22 00:15:12	quartz	It just installs files....
2021-06-22 00:15:13	quartz	programs.
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2021-06-22 00:15:27	matsaman	quartz: did you know that Debian doesn't officially support downgrading packages?
2021-06-22 00:15:32	[[R]]	quartz: apt uses the deb package format... pacman uses wahtever stupid garbage arch uses
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2021-06-22 00:15:34	matsaman	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta
2021-06-22 00:15:43	matsaman	[[R]]: you grow in brackets, sir
2021-06-22 00:15:54	Sauvin	A somewhat deeper level is that different Linux distros have different ways of organising packages.
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2021-06-22 00:15:58	[[R]]	quartz: but how is firefox differnt from chrome? it just shows webapges
2021-06-22 00:16:05	quartz	[[R]]: I thought Arch was a good distro
2021-06-22 00:16:12	[[R]]	quartz: i'm sorry
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2021-06-22 00:16:14	matsaman	quartz: compared to what?
2021-06-22 00:16:17	matsaman	Red Hat? Yes
2021-06-22 00:16:28	quartz	[[R]]: Well, one steals your privacy? I dunno haha
2021-06-22 00:16:32	johnnyapol	an example of a feature pacman recently got that apt does not have is parallel downloading
2021-06-22 00:16:41	[[R]]	quartz: that doesnt even make sense....
2021-06-22 00:16:44	quartz	Or rather, both I think do that now... Mozilla has said some really stupid stuff
2021-06-22 00:17:17	quartz	[[R]]: One is made by Google, the other by Mozilla.
2021-06-22 00:17:35	[[R]]	ok, and debian makes apt, and arch makes pacman
2021-06-22 00:17:36	[[R]]	there you go
2021-06-22 00:17:38	quartz	Google is not really very privacy friendly, or at least most people would say that. Mozilla is at least a bit better?
2021-06-22 00:17:54	quartz	But how are they different then?
2021-06-22 00:18:01	[[R]]	i just told you
2021-06-22 00:18:05	[[R]]	[09:15:32 PM] <[[R]]> quartz: apt uses the deb package format... pacman uses wahtever stupid garbage arch uses
2021-06-22 00:18:15	bparker	rofl
2021-06-22 00:18:19	bparker	salty much
2021-06-22 00:18:20	quartz	[[R]]: So I assume you're not an Arch fan?
2021-06-22 00:18:29	[[R]]	not a fan of garbage? that is correct
2021-06-22 00:18:42	quartz	[[R]]: Why is Arch garbage?
2021-06-22 00:18:49	bparker	don't even bother
2021-06-22 00:18:52	johnnyapol	because its not Hannah Montana Linux
2021-06-22 00:18:53	[[R]]	because it comes prebroken
2021-06-22 00:18:55	[[R]]	who doesnt love that
2021-06-22 00:18:56	 *	[[R]] giggles
2021-06-22 00:19:04	quartz	johnnyapol: What is that?
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2021-06-22 00:19:19	matsaman	quartz: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta
2021-06-22 00:19:30	matsaman	they have different features, licenses, technologies used
2021-06-22 00:19:38	bparker	https://i.pinimg.com/originals/21/42/8d/21428d4ed012afa431c05ea0aff0aa12.jpg
2021-06-22 00:19:41	matsaman	some package managers do have significant overlap, it's true
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2021-06-22 00:20:31	quartz	[[R]]: What distro do you use then?
2021-06-22 00:20:51	johnnyapol	probably one without systemd if i remember correctly
2021-06-22 00:20:55	[[R]]	why does it matter what i use?
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2021-06-22 00:21:02	bparker	it's garbage whatever it is
2021-06-22 00:21:27	quartz	Just curious
2021-06-22 00:21:48	matsaman	quartz: so why do you care how they're different?
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2021-06-22 00:23:45	quartz	matsaman: I was just curious
2021-06-22 00:24:35	knocktwice	for me it's simple.  I trust Mozilla more than I trust Google/Alphabet.  Not that that's a high bar...
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2021-06-22 00:25:21	bparker	lol
2021-06-22 00:25:22	matsaman	quartz: such a good quality
2021-06-22 00:25:49	matsaman	basically, there is no Linux world ruling authority, and there never will be
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2021-06-22 00:25:56	matsaman	so there is no magical unification on the horizon
2021-06-22 00:26:08	vwork	I don't know. Red Hat is pretty damn close to a Linux ruling authority.
2021-06-22 00:26:15	matsaman	just like _everything else_ in life, there are little groups and cliques
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2021-06-22 00:26:33	matsaman	vwork: in what way?
2021-06-22 00:26:46	vwork	First thing coming to mind? systemd.
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2021-06-22 00:26:49	knocktwice	I haven't touched Red Hat since they went corporate.
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2021-06-22 00:27:04	matsaman	quartz: and for what it's worth that's a good thing, because giant governing bodies are really obnoxious when they fall apart
2021-06-22 00:27:04	spine-o-saurus	system dicks!
2021-06-22 00:27:07	matsaman	quartz: and for years beforehand
2021-06-22 00:27:13	vwork	They also employ Linus?
2021-06-22 00:27:17	matsaman	vwork: nobody makes anybody use systemd, or RHEL
2021-06-22 00:27:21	matsaman	Linus is irrelevant
2021-06-22 00:27:23	vwork	I mean theey hold a lot of cards
2021-06-22 00:27:26	bparker	no u
2021-06-22 00:27:28	vwork	Lol
2021-06-22 00:27:33	matsaman	the kernel itself is actually irrelevant
2021-06-22 00:27:47	vwork	Ok, later Linux experts :p
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2021-06-22 00:27:51	matsaman	if this were #bsd hardly anything functionally would be different
2021-06-22 00:27:56	matsaman	the GPL is far more significant than the Linux kernel
2021-06-22 00:28:03	bparker	the GPL is cancer
2021-06-22 00:28:07	matsaman	delicious cancer
2021-06-22 00:28:16	matsaman	with a nice hot sauce
2021-06-22 00:28:47	spine-o-saurus	cancer that eats away at proprietary software
2021-06-22 00:29:00	bparker	and then leaves dogshit behind
2021-06-22 00:29:01	matsaman	I like having a modular monolithic GPL'd Unix kernel just fine, but Linux is not essential to the OS I use
2021-06-22 00:29:17	matsaman	bparker: you're on an odd network
2021-06-22 00:29:20	matsaman	for you
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2021-06-22 01:45:47	bewees	hi, do people use hypervisors to ssh directly to other systems in the network or is it better to put everything in the guest hosts and work from there?
2021-06-22 01:46:25	mlu	shouldn't make much of a difference
2021-06-22 01:46:39	schillingklaus	i use neither ssh nor hypervisors
2021-06-22 01:46:57	mlu	generally though, the big question is: why would you be on a hypervisor host?
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2021-06-22 01:48:55	bewees	mlu:  i want to use a hypervisor on my desktop and on my server i'd only work from the hypervisor for maintainance (firewall, logs..)
2021-06-22 01:49:33	bewees	oh you mean why hypervisor at all?
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2021-06-22 02:45:46	deniska	I have a proxmox box, I very rarely have to loging directly on it
2021-06-22 02:45:49	deniska	login*
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2021-06-22 03:11:31	backleet	can vim macro record change of modes? when I record macro and replay it outputs pressed keys instead of actions of them
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2021-06-22 03:20:26	jim	to each their own, but I don't like editors that have typing-versus-nontyping modes... so vi, vim and all editors like it are out for me, and I'll never use them if I have a choice
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2021-06-22 03:24:49	Kyv	'modal editor' for short
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2021-06-22 03:25:30	Kyv	they are insanely effective
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2021-06-22 03:26:29	mkr	is there a cure for post-distrohopping depression?
2021-06-22 03:26:56	loganlee	mkr: i just stick with ubuntu whenever possible
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2021-06-22 03:27:56	selckin	mkr: can i interest you in some window manager hopping
2021-06-22 03:28:11	mkr	window manager hopping was fun though
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2021-06-22 03:28:42	mkr	xmonad was my favorite, but my current setup is wayland only
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2021-06-22 03:32:31	knocktwice	mkr: I was looking for a Linux DAW.  Tried Arch, AVLinux, mint, ubuntu, ubuntu studio, now I'm just tired of it.
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2021-06-22 03:33:10	knocktwice	Arch worked best, but then wouldn't boot after a power outage.  I haven't had that happen since 2000 or so...
2021-06-22 03:33:10	mkr	knocktwice: i use ardour6 for my audio work
2021-06-22 03:33:30	knocktwice	is ardour6 a linux distribution?
2021-06-22 03:33:38	mkr	nope, a daw
2021-06-22 03:33:50	mkr	used it on arch
2021-06-22 03:33:54	knocktwice	yes, Ardour on Arch was best
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2021-06-22 03:34:39	knocktwice	everything else screws up the audio with pops and gaps.
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2021-06-22 03:35:52	mkr	i had a physical cable connecting the internal audio interface to my focusrite audio interface to avoid bridging stuff to jack
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2021-06-22 03:36:13	CoderBR_000	Good Night guys, Tem BR nesse canal?
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2021-06-22 03:36:47	knocktwice	TBH, I'm trying to make a complete crap of a system into a DAW...
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2021-06-22 03:36:59	jim	knocktwice, no, ardour6 is the latest stable ardour, which is a multitrack midi and audio recording program and sequencer
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2021-06-22 03:37:36	mkr	jim: just not very fun to use as a midi sequencer
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2021-06-22 03:38:02	mkr	used it in combination with lilypond
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2021-06-22 03:38:30	jim	I run debian, no problems at all... that said, I had to make sure the cpu could be fast enough to support dsp
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2021-06-22 03:39:31	knocktwice	Eh, it seems to be a Inspiron i5-3440S with stock audio
2021-06-22 03:40:02	jim	sounds reasonable
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2021-06-22 03:40:37	knocktwice	jim: really? you think that can be an OK Linux DAW?  If so, I will try to make it happen.
2021-06-22 03:41:05	akik	i5 is crap?
2021-06-22 03:41:07	jim	well, also note that I've been using debian for like 20 years
2021-06-22 03:41:31	mkr	i never liked debian, but no idea why
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2021-06-22 03:41:46	knocktwice	jim: I've been using it for nearly as long, but I don't know much about DAWs
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2021-06-22 03:42:14	knocktwice	I think the key was that I made a custom kernel, for real-time or some such
2021-06-22 03:42:16	jim	are you using jack with the ardour?
2021-06-22 03:42:24	mkr	jim: yes
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2021-06-22 03:43:01	knocktwice	I installed Arch, with a custom kernel, and it worked really well.  Then it died in a power outtage, and I blamed Arch.
2021-06-22 03:43:01	jim	mkr, ok... knocktwice, howbout you? are you using jack?
2021-06-22 03:43:10	knocktwice	jim: jack, yes
2021-06-22 03:43:23	knocktwice	well, I mean, I was...
2021-06-22 03:43:42	knocktwice	jack2 worked just fine for me.
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2021-06-22 03:44:10	jim	I use jack and pulse together, the way I do it, is have jack talk to the actual sound hardware, and pulse talks to jack
2021-06-22 03:44:37	jim	debian vs arch shouldn't matter
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2021-06-22 03:44:58	knocktwice	like, replace alsa with jack, then pulse->jack
2021-06-22 03:45:03	knocktwice	?
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2021-06-22 03:45:37	knocktwice	or am I completely confused about linux + audio
2021-06-22 03:45:39	mkr	if you use jack on a device, you can't alsa it; so yes
2021-06-22 03:45:49	jim	if you're used to arch (and know its ins and outs pretty well), arch should be fine (but you're stuck with finding the dependencies yourself, I think
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2021-06-22 03:46:24	knocktwice	Most of my systems are Debian, but I kinda like raw-dawgging with Arch sometimes
2021-06-22 03:46:30	mkr	no, dependency management is fine, you just need to update it really often or else it hates you
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2021-06-22 03:48:05	jim	knocktwice, you using alsa sound driver? or oss (the older one)?
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2021-06-22 03:49:02	Helmholtz	I'm running a python script which takes ~20h. My fear is memory wear. I've modified it to write the db (~3MiB) every 15 minutes. Does this unbuffered writing of STDOUT to memory affect the memory in terms of write-cycles limitations?  I invoke the script via `python3 -u my_script &> $PREFIX/tmp/blah.log `
2021-06-22 03:49:05	jim	arch updates usually replace the whole thing, right?
2021-06-22 03:49:28	Helmholtz	the script is running on phone memory
2021-06-22 03:49:49	mkr	jim: do you mean the whole package or the whole system?
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2021-06-22 03:51:13	jim	mkr, does arch replace all of its packages (effectively replacing the whole thing) even if you want to upgrade just one thing/
2021-06-22 03:51:15	jim	?
2021-06-22 03:51:32	Sayona	Hello jim :D
2021-06-22 03:51:34	mkr	jim: you can update single packages
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2021-06-22 03:51:43	mkr	but you should avoid it
2021-06-22 03:51:44	Sayona	jim, I am using Ubuntu as a desktop now :))
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2021-06-22 03:51:59	jim	Sayona, hi there :) how are you doing? pretty happy?
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2021-06-22 03:52:40	mkr	Sayona: Manjaro on my Laptop, Fedora on my workstation, Oracle Linux on my servers
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2021-06-22 03:52:55	Sayona	mkr, Fedora is cool, yes
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2021-06-22 03:52:56	Sayona	jim, yap
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2021-06-22 03:56:31	Sayona	if you guys use Terminal to connect over servers, how do you manage the list of servers with password? because all passwords neede to be encrypted.
2021-06-22 03:56:42	mkr	you dont
2021-06-22 03:56:43	jim	Sayona, awesome :)
2021-06-22 03:57:00	mkr	Sayona: you use ssh public/private keys
2021-06-22 03:57:06	Sayona	yes
2021-06-22 03:57:26	mkr	i never use passwords for ssh login
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2021-06-22 03:58:06	Sayona	but what software tools as client do you use? if you need to create macro commands
2021-06-22 03:58:26	mkr	for ssh? .ssh/config
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2021-06-22 03:59:19	mkr	Sayona: or do you mean for managing the servers?
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2021-06-22 04:00:04	Sayona	like " I don't want to write by hand: ls -lah " and I want to click right and press on a button.
2021-06-22 04:00:32	jim	Sayona, could you explain what you mean by "create macro commands"? and an example or two?
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2021-06-22 04:00:57	mkr	Sayona: sorry, i never felt the need to do someting like that
2021-06-22 04:01:31	Sayona	let me see if I can find an example
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2021-06-22 04:02:51	knocktwice	jim: No OSS.  I was using a recent Arch with a custom kernel.  You said you use Debian with no problem.  Could the difference be a custom kernel with real-time enabled?
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2021-06-22 04:03:32	mkr	Sayona: i mean, i can see why you'd want to do somethink like that if you have an absolutly massive amount of servers
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2021-06-22 04:04:29	jim	knocktwice, maybe. in debian's package archives, they have some non-rt kernels, and some rt kernels
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2021-06-22 04:05:08	mkr	knocktwice: the difference is not so big
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2021-06-22 04:06:08	Sayona	mkr, I manage 1000+ servers :) on Windows I use MobaXtrem or SecureCRT
2021-06-22 04:06:50	mkr	Sayona: ok, i manage only 7 servers; i'm using puppet for that
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2021-06-22 04:07:02	Sayona	:D puppet is ugly
2021-06-22 04:07:12	mkr	yes it is xD
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2021-06-22 04:07:20	jim	Sayona, so by "macro commands", do you mean a button that puts the command to the terminal, as if you typed it? (and so if you're ssh connected to some remote, the button sends the text over the ssh)?
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2021-06-22 04:07:53	Sayona	I think was created when the founder smoked a lot of weed.
2021-06-22 04:08:04	Sayona	to many lines / classes to write
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2021-06-22 04:08:15	Sayona	jim, yes
2021-06-22 04:08:27	mkr	i don't think so; could never write someting like that after smoking a lot of weed
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2021-06-22 04:08:52	knocktwice	jim mkr: I thought so, but Arch with a custom RT kernel worked MUCH better than avlinux, ubuntu and mint
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2021-06-22 04:09:42	jim	knocktwice, I wonder if the same custombuilt kernel could work in a debian or deriv
2021-06-22 04:09:48	mkr	knocktwice: i had my best results with arch + rt kernel, hyperthreading disabled in the BIOS/UEFI and a firewire audio interface
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2021-06-22 04:10:01	knocktwice	mkr: thanks
2021-06-22 04:10:09	knocktwice	jim: I expect it would
2021-06-22 04:10:21	knocktwice	I will probably try that next
2021-06-22 04:10:30	mkr	jim: it will work
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2021-06-22 04:10:56	mkr	already did something like that
2021-06-22 04:11:03	mkr	in my gentoo days
2021-06-22 04:11:04	knocktwice	mkr I have no firewire though... just stock audio on a Dell Inspiron :p
2021-06-22 04:11:10	jim	(so that lends support for what I said earlier, that dist shouldn't matter much, you should use the one you know the best)
2021-06-22 04:11:41	knocktwice	jim: yep.  I dunno if that is Arch or Debian at this time in my life...
2021-06-22 04:11:48	mkr	the stock audio is probably the biggest problem
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2021-06-22 04:12:06	jim	knocktwice, could you run: lspci -nn | grep -i audio
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2021-06-22 04:12:40	jim	knocktwice, the thing I need from the output, is the thing that looks like: [1234:abcd]
2021-06-22 04:12:55	knocktwice	jim: 8086:1e20
2021-06-22 04:13:02	jim	intel :)
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2021-06-22 04:14:14	mkr	jim: you know this just from the code? my respect
2021-06-22 04:14:16	knocktwice	I was hoping that I was enough of a Linux expert to turn any POS I grabbed from Goodwill and turn it into a DAW.  Turns out it's a bit harder than that :)
2021-06-22 04:14:24	mkr	oh yes, 8086 xD
2021-06-22 04:14:25	jim	knocktwice, [8086:1e20] is '7 Series/C216 Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller' from 'Intel Corporation'
2021-06-22 04:14:38	jim	mkr, exactly :)
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2021-06-22 04:15:02	jim	but I only have one memorized
2021-06-22 04:15:07	knocktwice	mebee I need to be a leetle more serious about audio :)
2021-06-22 04:15:10	mkr	knocktwice: just get a usb audio interface with decent linux support
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2021-06-22 04:15:46	jim	knocktwice, I got a repo with some scripts, and some notes with helpful conversations
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2021-06-22 04:16:38	knocktwice	ok, so, I can take this POS, and plug in a USB audio "something" and make it work?
2021-06-22 04:16:43	jim	lemme fiond it
2021-06-22 04:17:01	knocktwice	it's an i5, so not totally trash
2021-06-22 04:17:02	jim	well maybe
2021-06-22 04:17:18	mkr	knocktwice: usb audio interfaces work this way, yes
2021-06-22 04:17:48	mkr	what are you doing with your daw, exactly?
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2021-06-22 04:18:05	jim	I use a tascam u4x4, works great, solid, no problems since I got it
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2021-06-22 04:18:25	knocktwice	ugh... I remember trying to write a USB device driver way back when... then trying to write a bluetooth driver way back when....  they all suck.  400 page manuals aaagh
2021-06-22 04:18:42	jim	thinking about getting a bigger tascam, but haven't had actual need
2021-06-22 04:18:59	knocktwice	mkr: I'm not doing much to stress a DAW. Small amount of midi, mostly just playback
2021-06-22 04:19:14	mkr	so just like me
2021-06-22 04:19:48	knocktwice	I'm dabbling in music, so I want to use Hydrogen and Ardour, stuff like that
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2021-06-22 04:20:11	mkr	i do violin recording, electric guitar recording, remixing and checking mixes of a good friend of mine with different speakers
2021-06-22 04:20:22	knocktwice	I'm not even doing live recording
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2021-06-22 04:21:19	jim	knocktwice, you can try: (cd somewhere convenient, then try:) git clone https://github.com/jwlynch/audio-setup )
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2021-06-22 04:22:08	mkr	i had a 10U rack on wheels for live audio; called it the "easily carriable music system"
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2021-06-22 04:23:08	jim	that sounds heavy :) any power amps in there?
2021-06-22 04:23:17	mkr	it was around 25kg/55lb
2021-06-22 04:23:34	mkr	no power amps, you needed external amplification
2021-06-22 04:23:35	jim	that's kinda heavy :)
2021-06-22 04:24:06	-->	scara (~user@user/scara) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 04:24:10	jim	I had an ampeg svt2, 75 lbs
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2021-06-22 04:24:13	mkr	used it in music school for playing church organ
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2021-06-22 04:25:27	mkr	but it was build around a mac mini and used linux as a frontend
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2021-06-22 04:26:20	mkr	complete with 2 drawers, a touch screen, audio interface, patch panels for routing between plugins and power distribution unit
2021-06-22 04:26:52	mkr	audio output via spdif, input via midi
2021-06-22 04:27:06	jim	at a jam session yesterday, a guy brought out a mesa/boogie solid state amp, really small
2021-06-22 04:27:19	scara	Pro tip: uninstalling iptables has big consquences, just disable it even if it doesn't work.... I have no idea why everything broke becuse of that mere fact
2021-06-22 04:27:24	jim	for the spdif outs, did it use hdmi connectors?
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2021-06-22 04:28:12	mkr	nope, rca jacks
2021-06-22 04:28:33	jim	scara, I guess some firewall front-end things use iptables
2021-06-22 04:28:38	acresearch	people i have a macbok pro 2011 8,1 i am trying to connect an additional screen using its thunderbolt connection with hdmi  but the connection is not working in linux mint, how can i diagnose it and fix it?
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2021-06-22 04:29:13	scara	My vms broke when I uninstalled it... I even rebooted and installed it again but its completly f***ed
2021-06-22 04:29:21	scara	xD well now I know
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2021-06-22 04:29:40	jim	acresearch, just a shot in the dark guess, seems like a driver issue to me
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2021-06-22 04:30:02	acresearch	jim: well when i do lspci i see the thunderbolt hardware
2021-06-22 04:30:16	acresearch	jim: but for some reason linux cannot use it
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2021-06-22 04:30:48	jim	I dunno the details on thunderbold
2021-06-22 04:30:53	mkr	acresearch sounds very much like a driver issue
2021-06-22 04:31:28	acresearch	mkr: can i install a driver?
2021-06-22 04:31:36	acresearch	mkr: to make it work?
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2021-06-22 04:32:04	jim	are there any drivers that notice it?
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2021-06-22 04:32:13	cadmio	Hello
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2021-06-22 04:32:17	jim	hi
2021-06-22 04:32:17	cadmio	Do you know how can I remove the black and white boxes from the background? https://imgur.com/r5shDVyl.png
2021-06-22 04:32:34	mkr	sorry, i have never used thunderbold; i had this issue with a network card, but on freebsd
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2021-06-22 04:33:32	acresearch	jim: what do you mean? like lspci?
2021-06-22 04:33:57	jim	well could you run: lspci -nn | grep -i thun
2021-06-22 04:34:15	knocktwice	jim: thanks, saving jwlynch somewhere safe
2021-06-22 04:34:25	jim	(again, guess, let's see if you get output)
2021-06-22 04:34:30	acresearch	jim: yes, i get back the driver
2021-06-22 04:34:55	jim	acresearch, it's one line?
2021-06-22 04:35:00	TJ-	acresearch: check which kernel module drivers the device is using ("lspci -nnk")
2021-06-22 04:35:10	acresearch	jim: no 7 lines  07:00.0 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation CV82524 Thunderbolt Controller [Light Ridge 4C 2010] [8086:1513]
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2021-06-22 04:35:45	TJ-	acresearch: you can look at just that device with "lspci -nnk -d ::0880"
2021-06-22 04:35:47	acresearch	jim: Kernel driver in use: thunderbolt      Kernel modules: thunderbolt
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2021-06-22 04:36:14	acresearch	Subsystem: Device [2222:1111]
2021-06-22 04:36:36	jim	acresearch, ok, could you run: lspci -nnk | grep -i thun | nc termbin.com 9999
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2021-06-22 04:37:10	acresearch	jim: https://termbin.com/28rpk
2021-06-22 04:37:19	knocktwice	cadmio: I'd try gimp, identify the color and remove it.
2021-06-22 04:37:41	jim	TJ-, see that termbin post, got what you need?
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2021-06-22 04:38:37	TJ-	acresearch: so there is a kernel module - so now check the kernel log "journalctl -k -f" whilst plugging in a device, or read the entire log to get an idea if there is a problem
2021-06-22 04:38:42	TJ-	jim yes :)
2021-06-22 04:38:49	cadmio	knocktwice: so using the fuzzy tool, but there are plenty of those boxes
2021-06-22 04:38:54	knocktwice	cadmio: but you should probably try to make your own diagram, rather than taking someone elses :p
2021-06-22 04:39:19	mkr	yay, just killed my manjaro installation for not updating frequently enough
2021-06-22 04:39:24	knocktwice	cadmio: isn't there a way to select by color without fuzzing?
2021-06-22 04:39:49	TJ-	acresearch: "journalctl -k | nc termbin.com 9999"
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2021-06-22 04:40:28	mkr	guess i'll have a fedora installation more
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2021-06-22 04:40:50	acresearch	TJ-: https://termbin.com/xw6m
2021-06-22 04:41:23	knocktwice	cadmio: oh, ugh... the image has been collapsed, 'fuzzy' is best option :p
2021-06-22 04:41:35	gtlsgamr	any reason why the first one works in arch but for ubuntu i have to use the second one? (http://0x0.st/-9gS.txt
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2021-06-22 04:42:20	mkr	gtlsgamr maybe a different shell?
2021-06-22 04:42:41	gtlsgamr	mkr: ahhh! You're right! never thought of that
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2021-06-22 04:43:13	cadmio	knocktwice: with the "select color" I canno select anything there's the forbidden icon
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2021-06-22 04:46:08	acresearch	TJ-: did you see any pattern?
2021-06-22 04:46:12	TJ-	acresearch: nothing obvious there for the controller on 07:00 but I wonder if the related PCI bridges are OK.
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2021-06-22 04:47:22	TJ-	acresearch: show us "lspci -tvvvnnk | nc termbin.com 9999"
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2021-06-22 04:48:24	acresearch	TJ-: https://termbin.com/r3rz
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2021-06-22 04:48:48	knocktwice	 cadmio: I'm still here, still trying things
2021-06-22 04:49:34	TJ-	acresearch: what Thunderbolt device(s) have you connected right now?
2021-06-22 04:50:22	acresearch	TJ-: right now, nothing is connected to the thunderbolt
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2021-06-22 04:51:51	mkr	does anyone know, why a m.2 ssd in an m.2 -> u.2 adapter connected to an u.2 port on the motherboard does only work if i disable some power management related kernel parameters?
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2021-06-22 04:52:33	knocktwice	cadmio: colors->threshold
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2021-06-22 04:53:20	TJ-	acresearch: I missed the original problem description, can you fill me in?
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2021-06-22 04:56:28	acresearch	TJ-: trying to connect a screen using the thunderbolt connection    thunderbolt -> HDMI or VGI
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2021-06-22 04:57:42	TJ-	acresearch: you'd need to capture the kernel log messages when plugging it in for us to gain any further insight
2021-06-22 04:58:21	acresearch	TJ-: how can i do that?
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2021-06-22 04:58:52	cadmio	and then?
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2021-06-22 05:01:42	TJ-	acresearch: plug the device in, wait a few seconds, unplug it, then send us "journalctl -k -n 250 | nc termbin.com 9999!
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2021-06-22 05:03:58	jim	make sure you don't put the ! at the end of the nc termbin 9999
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2021-06-22 05:04:08	acresearch	TJ-: ok
2021-06-22 05:04:31	TJ-	oh gawd typo!
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2021-06-22 05:04:33	TJ-	acresearch: plug the device in, wait a few seconds, unplug it, then send us "journalctl -k -n 250 | nc termbin.com 9999"
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2021-06-22 05:06:21	acresearch	TJ-: https://termbin.com/dzo2
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2021-06-22 05:08:07	lessshaste	are there any chat rooms for zoom support?
2021-06-22 05:08:25	lessshaste	my zoom now just says "connecting" when I try to join a call
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2021-06-22 05:10:41	knocktwice	I'll be interested when there's an accepted standard for video chat, as there is for email.
2021-06-22 05:10:43	Kyv	there is a ##zoomers channel, but I dont know thats quite what you're after.
2021-06-22 05:10:57	TJ-	acresearch: absolutely no reaction at all, nothing new in the log
2021-06-22 05:11:11	acresearch	TJ-: seems like it
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2021-06-22 05:11:43	kompowiec	i always thought that SIP is de facto standard
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2021-06-22 05:12:36	kompowiec	although I must admit that although SIP has video plugins, it is not an official standard.
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2021-06-22 05:13:52	knocktwice	kompowiec it's a start
2021-06-22 05:14:28	knocktwice	but I'm not just handing my info to anyone...
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2021-06-22 05:14:56	kompowiec	but programmers probably don't like SIP. Proof of this may be the resignation from it in XMPP or convos.chat which uses jitsi.
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2021-06-22 05:16:48	kompowiec	I don't know the context of the conversation because I came in too late but ..
2021-06-22 05:16:49	kompowiec	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R--_ATzE6o
2021-06-22 05:16:50	kompowiec	:)
2021-06-22 05:16:54	kompowiec	(in-band)
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2021-06-22 05:18:02	koollman	knocktwice: webrtc seems close enough to a video chat standard to me
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2021-06-22 05:22:09	jim	Sayona, I wonder if you can add code to an existing -term- program (xterm, konsole, gnome terminal) that lets you add these buttons
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2021-06-22 05:38:12	CalimeroTeknik	I'm actually quite unhappy that any unprivileged user on my system can see what remote hosts it's connected to, through the netlink interface. Can I make this less visible?
2021-06-22 05:38:30	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 05:39:08	CalimeroTeknik	perhaps grsec could help
2021-06-22 05:40:11	Sayona	jim, good point
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2021-06-22 05:41:09	jim	Sayona, if you were to choose the term for which GUI toolkit it uses (and the one you want to use), might get more success that way
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2021-06-22 05:42:52	phogg	CalimeroTeknik: network namespaces could help, but it would be a lot of setup
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2021-06-22 05:43:53	CalimeroTeknik	wow, it's the only way?
2021-06-22 05:44:09	CalimeroTeknik	I was able to block netstat from doing the same thing using permissions in /proc, so this came unexpected: there was another interface for the same thing!
2021-06-22 05:44:18	CalimeroTeknik	close the door, they go in through the open window!
2021-06-22 05:44:43	schillingklaus	close the Win10 as well
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2021-06-22 05:46:09	CalimeroTeknik	interestingly I couldn't find anyone on the Web finding it problematic that anyone can see not just what local ports are in use, but where the other end is connected as well
2021-06-22 05:46:45	CalimeroTeknik	unless I'm missing some crucial information i.e. this can be derived trivially by other means, but I don't think it can
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2021-06-22 05:59:24	n00b101	I have 50+ images in a folder. What is the best way to compress this folder? The current size is 200mb
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2021-06-22 05:59:34	nem	Im a junior linux serveradmin and im having an issue where when we restart a process , and it ends up being killed, it also kills an unrelated (?) process. Please see syslog: https://paste.ee/p/unDu4
2021-06-22 05:59:34	nem	Im thinking that the process must be a child process, and thats why it is being killed, could this be right? They are not running under the same user, and im not seeing this on all servers, just a fraction of them
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2021-06-22 06:01:51	nem	Also when checking other servers, i clearly see that the processes are not related. The puppet process is not the parent of servicename
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2021-06-22 06:07:13	Dagmar	I should hope not, or whoever you've got writing puppet scripts needs to stop
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2021-06-22 06:11:07	nem	servicename IS installed by puppet, but thats the only relation between those. I just dont see why systemd ends up killing it, is there somewhere else i should be looking apart from syslog, messages and the servicename logs?
2021-06-22 06:12:02	Dagmar	Daemons are typically reparented right away, so it should come as no surprise that if puppet starts a service it would not _remain_ a child of puppet
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2021-06-22 06:30:34	HumbleGuy	i want to use xinitrc instead of display manager, how do i do that?
2021-06-22 06:30:47	HumbleGuy	i use lightdm currently
2021-06-22 06:30:54	HumbleGuy	how do i disable it
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2021-06-22 06:36:24	DLange	that depends on your distro, HumbleGuy
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2021-06-22 06:39:16	HumbleGuy	DLange, i use gentoo
2021-06-22 06:39:39	HumbleGuy	DLange, i thought all distros do the same way
2021-06-22 06:40:48	Kyv	it depends on your init system unless you want to just remove it entirely
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2021-06-22 06:41:11	Kyv	otherwise it is pretty much the same wherever
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2021-06-22 06:42:19	rbh	anyone here familiar with the method for building and instaling the linux kernel on opensuse?
2021-06-22 06:42:34	Kyv	if its systemd then `systemctl disable lightdm`
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2021-06-22 06:43:06	rbh	I found an old official blog post from 2013 which uses the 'rpm' make build target which seems to no longer exist in upstream
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2021-06-22 06:50:26	autopsy	rbh, what makes you think the RPM build target doesn't exist anymore?
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2021-06-22 06:55:09	rbh	autopsy: because I tried to run it and it didnt exist?
2021-06-22 06:55:30	autopsy	rbh, opensuse should have rpm-build
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2021-06-22 06:55:53	rbh	I see, the name mustve changed. ill try that and report back
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2021-06-22 07:03:00	lessshaste	are there any chat rooms for zoom support?
2021-06-22 07:03:01	lessshaste	my zoom now just says "connecting" when I try to join a call
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2021-06-22 07:03:44	rbh	autopsy: right, found it right grep. its called binrpm-pkg/rpm-pkg
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2021-06-22 07:07:34	CoderBR_000	Hello
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2021-06-22 07:09:38	EdwardIII	kind of a daft question but just curious: is there a way to download a text file over http on debian slim (so no curl, no nc)?
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2021-06-22 07:10:51	megalo-meat-mani	isnt that what get does?
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2021-06-22 07:11:21	EdwardIII	megalo-meat-mani: get?
2021-06-22 07:11:26	rouji	wget?
2021-06-22 07:11:34	megalo-meat-mani	https://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_httpmethods.asp
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2021-06-22 07:12:12	p0g0	is the file hosted, that is, is there a web server offering the dir or link?  Text files open in a browser...
2021-06-22 07:12:22	gtlsgamr	I think wget shouldwork
2021-06-22 07:12:49	p0g0	so, yeah, http can serve a text file.  wget is excellent if available.
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2021-06-22 07:14:44	EdwardIII	if there's no curl, there's definitely no wget :)
2021-06-22 07:14:45	p0g0	There is also sshfs or scp...
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2021-06-22 07:15:04	EdwardIII	hrm they don't bundle scp/ssh client either. i'm thinking it's probably not possible
2021-06-22 07:15:38	EdwardIII	was just a curiosity really (whether it's possible to download an http file on debian-slim without installing anything extra). but i think it's a no
2021-06-22 07:15:57	rbh	EdwardIII: If it has bash you can probably use /dev/tcp
2021-06-22 07:16:13	p0g0	telnet...
2021-06-22 07:16:17	p0g0	and cat
2021-06-22 07:16:19	rouji	I've seen loads of systems that had wget but no curl
2021-06-22 07:16:36	rbh	I cant look up the usage right now since `make` is trashing my cpu
2021-06-22 07:16:41	p0g0	yeah, assuming the tools are not available...
2021-06-22 07:16:50	EdwardIII	doesn't seem to have /dev/tcp: https://gist.github.com/EdwardIII/f7e755f4df699b7b28881feace371971
2021-06-22 07:16:53	kurahaupo	EdwardIII: I've certainly used systems that have wget but not curl
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2021-06-22 07:18:06	schillingklaus	curiosity vs curlosity
2021-06-22 07:18:36	EdwardIII	:D
2021-06-22 07:18:50	curdlesnoot	EdwardIII: /dev/tcp is an illusion of sorts. it's meaningful only to bash, if built accordingly.
2021-06-22 07:19:22	tango_uniform_xr	it looks like you have no devtmpfs mounted at /dev
2021-06-22 07:19:37	EdwardIII	it's debian slim in a docker container so probably slightly hamstrung
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2021-06-22 07:21:50	HumbleGuy	what is the bluetooth driver name in bluetooth? i want to make it as a module so i leave it disable, and enable it when i actually need bluetooh
2021-06-22 07:21:52	EdwardIII	just continuing to flick around, interestingly busybox comes with a wget substitute but not curl
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2021-06-22 07:23:12	p0g0	rfcomm?
2021-06-22 07:23:23	p0g0	HumbleGuy, ^
2021-06-22 07:23:36	HumbleGuy	are yiu sure?
2021-06-22 07:23:47	HumbleGuy	it doesnt sound like bluetooth
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2021-06-22 07:24:29	rascul	the bluetooth driver is bluetooth
2021-06-22 07:24:40	p0g0	It is the tool I needed to set up to add a BT connection on an Armbian install, so in my case, yes I am sure.
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2021-06-22 07:27:10	p0g0	HumbleGuy, I needed to ocnstruct  an /etc/rfcomm.conf, declare the MAC addresses of the BT devices I wanted to accept, and do an rfcomm bind on that MAC.
2021-06-22 07:27:23	p0g0	That worked for me...
2021-06-22 07:28:19	p0g0	the sdptool would list available BT devices to pair, giving me the MAC address I needed.
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2021-06-22 07:28:37	p0g0	"sdptool browse"
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2021-06-22 07:32:18	p0g0	For each session, I need to offer "rfcomm bind rfcomm0 ab:cd:ef:ab:cd:ef" where rfcomm0 is the /dev/ handle I am creating, "the comm port".  I should have led this all with the fact that I am using BT as a serial device.
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2021-06-22 07:49:56	miko	hi! i'm having some problems compiling a mainline kernel with llvm+lto; it errors out due to "some" (i.e. a lot) of unresolved symbol warnings. here are the errors: https://termbin.com/dkuw
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2021-06-22 07:53:12	lessshaste	miko,  maybe try https://kernelnewbies.org/IRC ?
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2021-06-22 07:54:30	miko	alright, i'm gonna go ask there; thanks!
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2021-06-22 07:56:56	miko	ah, wait, would it really be on-topic to ask there? seems like it's just for kernel hacking, and i'm not really hacking on the kernel
2021-06-22 07:58:37	schillingklaus	it's not just for kernel hacking
2021-06-22 07:58:40	kurahaupo	miko: the first step to hacking the kernel is to be able to (re)build it
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2021-06-22 07:58:48	HumbleGuy	miko, hacking there is not referred to literal black hat hacking
2021-06-22 07:58:57	miko	HumbleGuy: i know
2021-06-22 07:59:38	miko	schillingklaus: alright! thanks
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2021-06-22 08:08:39	velix	Things you don't want to hear: "that looks like a kernel bug" <-- this just made my day ;)
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2021-06-22 08:17:03	Kyv	EdwardIII: Go out to your car and ask it if it has any curl to spare. - https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2018/08/12/a-hundred-million-cars-run-curl/
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2021-06-22 08:19:26	rascul	my car runs a hundred million curls
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2021-06-22 08:19:42	miko	my hundred million curls runs a car
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2021-06-22 08:19:51	lessshaste	miko, I think so
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2021-06-22 08:20:33	Kyv	call when you can do one hundred million curls and outrun a car
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2021-06-22 08:21:01	rascul	hrm slack must have sold off my email address, lately i've been getting spammed on an address i only gave to slack...
2021-06-22 08:21:34	rindolf	velix: heh
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2021-06-22 08:23:25	Kyv	https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/03/20/curl-is-23-years-old-today/
2021-06-22 08:23:35	Kyv	they're puttin it everywhere
2021-06-22 08:23:43	kirk781	rascul, Slack seems like a rascal in this case :p
2021-06-22 08:24:17	Kyv	except in the hands of Kind Edward
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2021-06-22 08:24:32	Kyv	kind :|
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2021-06-22 08:24:34	miko	King Edward *the third*
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2021-06-22 08:25:19	schillingklaus	is that the one with the doppelganger?
2021-06-22 08:25:37	rascul	kirk781 there may be another explanation for how others got my slack email address but i like this one the best
2021-06-22 08:25:40	<--	trekkie1701c (~trekkie17@user/trekkie1701c) has quit (Quit: :P)
2021-06-22 08:25:59	backleet	has anyone taken cs50 online?
2021-06-22 08:26:12	kirk781	rascul, maybe the slack's internal database got leaked. It's quite common where users' email, phone is leaked in large databases
2021-06-22 08:26:26	rascul	perhaps
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2021-06-22 08:27:24	EdwardIII	Kyv: :D
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2021-06-22 08:28:31	kirk781	Was Edward an infamous king in English history?
2021-06-22 08:29:41	EdwardIII	kirk781: i wouldn't say especially so, no
2021-06-22 08:30:04	kirk781	EdwardIII, your opinion seems biased EDWARD
2021-06-22 08:30:19	EdwardIII	kirk781: Edward II was in braveheart if that's any good?
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2021-06-22 08:30:28	schillingklaus	maybe the one who fought at the battle of Bannockburn?
2021-06-22 08:30:36	Nero_rome	I did not fiddle while Rome burned
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2021-06-22 08:30:59	Nero_rome	I am NERO Buring ROM, the infamous Windows Shareware
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2021-06-22 08:31:09	EdwardIII	beautiful piece of software in it's time
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2021-06-22 08:31:12	Nero_rome	But boy, whoever came with that name really was great
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2021-06-22 08:31:52	--	miko is now known as the_pope
2021-06-22 08:31:56	the_pope	i am the pope
2021-06-22 08:32:00	the_pope	why did you burn rome
2021-06-22 08:32:09	schillingklaus	it's all a forgery by later Christian forgers.
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2021-06-22 08:32:28	Nero_rome	the_pope, stop ahem with the children thing in churches first
2021-06-22 08:32:58	the_pope	damnit
2021-06-22 08:33:20	Nero_rome	Oh boy, This is beginning to resemble more history than Operating systems
2021-06-22 08:33:26	Kyv	oh, ROME!
2021-06-22 08:33:35	Nero_rome	Talking about OS, did anyone actually try the 'accidental' release of
2021-06-22 08:33:39	Kyv	that explains the D I got on my Chemical Brothers mix cd for history class
2021-06-22 08:33:41	Nero_rome	Windows
2021-06-22 08:33:44	Nero_rome	lol
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2021-06-22 08:34:17	mworkman72	Hello, any X Forwarding experts in here?
2021-06-22 08:34:32	Nero_rome	mworkman72, Ah, finally you came here :p
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2021-06-22 08:35:01	Nero_rome	Someone please help him, his Suse system is fscking him more than the PLague did to Europe
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2021-06-22 08:35:13	mworkman72	yes, I resolved all my issues with my Suse Linux with SSH, now trying to get X to work
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2021-06-22 08:36:32	mworkman72	I nuked my Suse Linux trying to edit keys in authorized_keys file with Vim, but was able to restore from Azure portal
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2021-06-22 08:37:08	mworkman72	Now ssh is working fine from command line, PuTTY, and Termius also
2021-06-22 08:37:14	Nero_rome	mworkman72, Is it your first time installing Suse?
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2021-06-22 08:38:14	Kyv	Can we assume X11 forwarding is enabled in your sshd config? By default it is not.
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2021-06-22 08:38:20	mworkman72	no, actually I first started using Suse in 2000, I had it installed on my laptop in a dual boot with Windows 98, most of my IT experience is as a software engineer though, only a little admin experience
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2021-06-22 08:38:57	Kyv	I hope you didn't take all the trouble to manually type out the client keys.
2021-06-22 08:39:03	Nero_rome	mworkman72, Huh, with that much experience under your belt, I am surprised you're having issues.
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2021-06-22 08:39:08	schillingklaus	that was before OpenSuse and systemd
2021-06-22 08:39:48	mworkman72	HAHA!! LOL! I tried to paste them in, but found the cat with an append operation is much easier
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2021-06-22 08:40:27	Kyv	Generally there is ssh-copy-id, if you have the chance before locking out user/pass authentication.
2021-06-22 08:40:31	mworkman72	cat the public key, and append it to authorized_keys file, works every time
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2021-06-22 08:41:05	Kyv	It copies them over to the server automagically.
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2021-06-22 08:42:00	mworkman72	ok, yes I saw that with a google search, just thought using cat was easier since I could already log in, I used SFTP t move the public key file onto the Suse VM
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2021-06-22 08:43:35	mworkman72	I have 20 years experience as software engineer, but only intermediate with sys admin type tasks, like configuring SSH
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2021-06-22 08:45:23	Nero_rome	I thought I was wasting my life. Then I saw Instagram's and Facebook's desktop UI and they somehow manage to waste more real estate than anyone
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2021-06-22 08:46:10	mworkman72	At my most recent job with Red Hat Linux, I never touched the SSH configuration, a sys admin did that for me
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2021-06-22 08:46:45	mworkman72	cat publickey >> authorized_keys
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2021-06-22 08:47:00	gartt	Could PXE network boot be used to then select a hard drive to boot from? I can boot from the first hdd's GRUB, modify grub and tell it on next boot to boot from the 2nd hdd for example, but can pxe make this easier?
2021-06-22 08:47:01	astronaut	mworkman72, so all the machine you had to work on had a keyboard and monitor connected to it?
2021-06-22 08:47:02	mworkman72	works better than trying to edit the file with VIM, LOL!!!
2021-06-22 08:47:22	miko	whatt, vim is amazing :(
2021-06-22 08:47:36	Mathisen	gartt, nope
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2021-06-22 08:47:47	Nero_rome	Not vim. No one with a real life uses vim
2021-06-22 08:47:58	 *	Nero_rome goes and opens his vi config
2021-06-22 08:47:59	gartt	Mathisen: thanks. so Id be better off modifying grub I suppose
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2021-06-22 08:48:04	Mathisen	yes
2021-06-22 08:48:14	gartt	Nero_rome: i use it every day for software development and everything else
2021-06-22 08:48:17	astronaut	Nero_rome, hell no. I use Vim daily.
2021-06-22 08:48:17	miko	Nero_rome: true; i don't have a real life
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2021-06-22 08:48:34	DLange	gartt: you can make multiple entries in your grub boot menu so you can select the second hdd from there
2021-06-22 08:48:37	gartt	and for all other editing tasks, vim
2021-06-22 08:48:38	Nero_rome	gartt, you could live your life in vim if you want :p
2021-06-22 08:48:52	gartt	DLange: exactly
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2021-06-22 08:48:58	miko	Nero_rome: nah; if you wanna live inside a text editor, you use emacs
2021-06-22 08:49:01	gartt	Nero_rome: so far so good :)
2021-06-22 08:49:07	mworkman72	I worked mostly remote at my Red Hat job due to pandemic, using FastX for X forwarding connected to my Red Hat Box from Windows 10, and sometimes had to use ssh from command line when FastX crashed, but that was not often
2021-06-22 08:49:17	Nero_rome	Just use an electron based code editor
2021-06-22 08:49:26	 *	Nero_rome runs before he is burned at a witch trial
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2021-06-22 08:49:32	Kyv	It is difficult to strike a good life/text-editor balance no matter which one it is.
2021-06-22 08:49:50	Nero_rome	Now I now why the witch trials happened. They used electron based code editors
2021-06-22 08:50:05	mworkman72	I use Nano on Linux sometimes, and I have an OpenBSD shell I use pico with
2021-06-22 08:50:06	Nero_rome	Religions are essentially code editors
2021-06-22 08:50:10	gartt	if youve ever seen what someone very siilled in vim is capable of, youll become a believer
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2021-06-22 08:50:40	Kyv	For a time I used Gedit and dressed like Barry Seal, but there were problems.
2021-06-22 08:50:43	gartt	thats what made me learn it. I saw a guy making changes as fast as I could dictate them, far faster than anyone using a mouse could
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2021-06-22 08:51:38	Kyv	I couldn't get my life in order, and then someone came knocking on my door with a pamphlet on vim.
2021-06-22 08:51:41	<--	bluenode (~bluenode@23.108.99.98) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 08:51:46	gartt	heh
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2021-06-22 08:52:24	schillingklaus	nvi should be enough
2021-06-22 08:52:32	astronaut	Using Vim is like a CULT. Difficult to get it. Difficult to get out. You simply cannot use a non-modal editor anymore.
2021-06-22 08:52:57	mworkman72	VIM is easy to use once you get used to it, but I still think Netbeans and Eclipse and now Visual Studio Code
2021-06-22 08:53:33	mworkman72	those are better than VIM I think, but if you do not have GUI's available, VIM is a lifesaver!
2021-06-22 08:53:41	-->	jbowen (~jbowen@fedora/jbowen) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 08:53:47	Kyv	People build it up in their minds until they reach a point where they have psyched themselves out of ever beginning to learn a modal editor.
2021-06-22 08:53:54	-->	xrogaan (~xrogaan@user/xrogaan) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 08:53:58	astronaut	I simply don't get the appeal of VS Code. it has become so popular among devs these days.
2021-06-22 08:54:05	astronaut	I wonder why.
2021-06-22 08:54:05	schillingklaus	gui editors are unconditionally evil and perverse
2021-06-22 08:54:11	-->	node1 (~node1@user/node1) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 08:54:18	Mathisen	not all gui editors are bad
2021-06-22 08:54:24	Mathisen	i like sublime
2021-06-22 08:54:24	mworkman72	LOL!!
2021-06-22 08:54:34	-->	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 08:54:45	Mathisen	and for a terminal one i prefer nano
2021-06-22 08:55:18	<--	trekkie1701c (~trekkie17@user/trekkie1701c) has quit (Quit: :P)
2021-06-22 08:55:34	Mathisen	never thought myself the keybinds for vim
2021-06-22 08:55:37	<--	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 08:55:48	drip	and im just sitting here happy with joe
2021-06-22 08:56:15	-->	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 08:56:18	Mathisen	atom is not bad either.. well electron but still
2021-06-22 08:56:46	Nero_rome	Mathisen, the real fun is in watt's inside of them. Protons and neutrons
2021-06-22 08:56:54	-->	crawler (~crawler__@cable-89-216-138-36.dynamic.sbb.rs) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 08:56:56	Nero_rome	Wait, you are talking about the other Atom
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2021-06-22 08:57:51	Mathisen	funny
2021-06-22 08:58:04	<--	Nero_rome (~doors@2402:3a80:b57:81a5:2682:2403:71bd:264c) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-22 08:58:11	hendursaga	mworkman72: you've used/heard of Neovim?
2021-06-22 08:58:24	<--	rbh (~user@202.177.224.0) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 08:58:33	Mathisen	my top 2 gui editors for is those atleast 1. https://www.sublimetext.com/ 2 https://atom.io/
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2021-06-22 08:59:28	Kyv	vim vim is fine
2021-06-22 08:59:46	miko	schillingklaus: the only good gui editors are graphical versions of traditional terminal editors ;p
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2021-06-22 09:00:11	kurahaupo	If I need a GUI editor, I'll use gvim
2021-06-22 09:00:15	Mathisen	vim is only fine if you stuvorn enough to learn the keybinds and then use it for 6 months and only then. way to slow otherwise
2021-06-22 09:00:50	Kyv	It doesn't take that long and its not difficult.
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2021-06-22 09:01:17	schillingklaus	learning keybinds is easy, as opposed to the disgusting perversity of mouse usage
2021-06-22 09:01:35	kurahaupo	Mathisen: well, considering you're going to be using an editor for 30 years, 6 months seems like a pretty trivial investment
2021-06-22 09:01:47	p0g0	30 years?
2021-06-22 09:01:49	Kyv	Run through vimtutor once or twice and you're already on your way to better efficient versus without.
2021-06-22 09:01:53	sail0r	i've never been able to leearn the shortcuts fast enough. always go back to nano for editing
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2021-06-22 09:02:08	Mathisen	kurahaupo, im not saying you should not do it. im only saying it is a learning curve
2021-06-22 09:02:24	kurahaupo	sail0r: you'll learn them fast enough if you uninstall nano
2021-06-22 09:02:28	sail0r	they dont stick. you learn what you need, use it, then forget it until the next time you think... hrmm, i should use vim
2021-06-22 09:02:28	p0g0	I'd still be using Wordstar if I stuck with one editor that long.
2021-06-22 09:02:36	sail0r	kurahaupo: hahaha
2021-06-22 09:02:37	-->	pacblinky (~pacblinky@user/pacblinky) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:03:20	p0g0	I have become very fond of syntax checking editors, they've addressed a problem I am glad to have solved.
2021-06-22 09:03:31	<--	jw_ (~njw@58.182.164.99) has quit (Quit: jw_)
2021-06-22 09:03:39	kurahaupo	I'm not saying you'll use only one editor, but that some of them you will still be using when you retire and beyond
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2021-06-22 09:03:39	sail0r	im not a programmer though. the need for vim is much less pronounced if you dont have a specific use case... ie programmer, or novelist etc ;p
2021-06-22 09:03:42	-->	DaFeliX_ (~DaFeliX@a83-162-184-238.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:03:43	p0g0	My compiles are more likely to run without error.
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2021-06-22 09:04:17	peetaur	heh syntax checking is great but I hate to have comments like     # this bracket here works around a syntax highlighting problem: )
2021-06-22 09:04:33	pacblinky	tbh vim is just complicated and any simple code editor can do it what it does
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2021-06-22 09:04:56	pacblinky	but if you are a terminal addict vim is your go
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2021-06-22 09:05:03	kurahaupo	p0g0: For small files syntax highlighting is helpful, but for files over 100Mb it gets intolerably slow
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2021-06-22 09:05:44	Kyv	Suddenly people who dont use vim, and cant grasp vim for some reason, are very versed in its features.
2021-06-22 09:05:47	p0g0	kurahaupo, #includes are my friend...
2021-06-22 09:05:48	-->	bluenode (~bluenode@23.108.99.122) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:05:59	Kyv	That is very surprising when many actual vim users are not fully aware of what vim does.
2021-06-22 09:06:04	sail0r	sounds like you guys are on the scusp of a HN article i just read: about some ubuntu microcode update; and that all software has slowly become 'bloatware' since they have the same functionality as software from 10 years ago, but now use way more resources to accomplish the same task
2021-06-22 09:06:17	-->	Ringtailed_Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:80be:b6c2:1131:1a96) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:06:35	p0g0	Bloatware is a sad certainty... just look at HTML and web stuff...
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2021-06-22 09:06:37	pacblinky	sail0r with more friendly user interface tho
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2021-06-22 09:06:53	Kyv	Which is why some can be found installing plugins for things that vim already does and well.
2021-06-22 09:06:56	p0g0	svelte is not a virtue anymore.
2021-06-22 09:07:00	kurahaupo	pacblinky: any editor can do most things, but there is generally a correlation between how quickly you can do daily tasks with it and how long it took t to learn
2021-06-22 09:07:05	Dagmar	People keep insisting on trying to make their code idiot-proof instead of making it just fail gracefully
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2021-06-22 09:07:24	peetaur	pacblinky: vim is not so much more complicated... it is just weird how the key bindings work. And most editors don't do what it does, like macros. And the other things it does that others don't, you'd find you really need and use if you make a macro, so macros in other editors wouldn't even be useful.
2021-06-22 09:07:29	pacblinky	will i am sure when you atom or vscode .. you are faster than a vim user
2021-06-22 09:07:33	p0g0	Dagmar, given the rich variance midst the idoits, proofing against them is beyond most of us.
2021-06-22 09:07:39	p0g0	*idiots
2021-06-22 09:08:09	pacblinky	peetaur indeed but these features would not use them in most cases
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2021-06-22 09:08:43	p0g0	I cultivated a small stable of users that simply thought differently than anyone I knew- they were invaluable for testing, especially the docs.
2021-06-22 09:08:55	peetaur	learn it for the cases when you would use them... even if they are few, they'll save you lots of time
2021-06-22 09:08:58	pacblinky	when you are working in a company they expect you to use a fast productive coding framework
2021-06-22 09:09:02	pacblinky	not vim
2021-06-22 09:09:06	kurahaupo	I've recently had the misfortune of reading the source for "rsnapshot", which is a classic case of trying too hard.
2021-06-22 09:09:28	-->	jw_ (~njw@58.182.164.99) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:09:40	sail0r	i dunno, i blame mass adoption. ie critical mass. remember the "organic" internet? now its all shiny and bullshit. same thing is happening with videos. clickbait aside, how many videos are there about tpo 10 this or how to properly cook a chicken...
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2021-06-22 09:10:10	peetaur	yeah vim isn't well suited to coding without some plugins... like there's a plugin for vim that puts eclipse functionality into it...eclim :D  and no I don't use that
2021-06-22 09:10:48	pacblinky	the only advantage i see while using vim is that it does not jack up your computer resources
2021-06-22 09:10:55	schillingklaus	even herirloom vi is better suuited for coding than vscode and atom
2021-06-22 09:10:59	sail0r	this convo has now got me questioning what i htought vim was in the first place
2021-06-22 09:11:05	schillingklaus	heirloom vi
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2021-06-22 09:11:25	sail0r	emacs or die bishes
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2021-06-22 09:11:28	spyroboy	to be fair, I'm pretty sure most people discussing vim here don't actually know how to use vim.
2021-06-22 09:11:30	<--	stultusv (~Stultus_V@user/stultusv) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-06-22 09:11:32	varaindemian	'if [ ! -z "$1" ] || [ -z "$2" ]; then' -> what does this mean in the shell bash language?
2021-06-22 09:11:36	<--	Canoe (~canoe@user/canoe) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-22 09:11:39	pacblinky	spyroboy i know how to exit vim
2021-06-22 09:11:44	varaindemian	`if [ ! -z "$1" ] || [ -z "$2" ]; then`
2021-06-22 09:11:45	Kyv	there it is
2021-06-22 09:11:57	kurahaupo	rsnapshot is a 6000 line perl script that reads a 20 line "config file" and translates that to actions that could be directly coded in 50 lines of shell or perl
2021-06-22 09:11:58	pacblinky	but i am a nano user
2021-06-22 09:12:08	-->	stultusv (~Stultus_V@user/stultusv) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:12:21	spyroboy	there's also one area where vim excels over almost all editors: ubiquity. it's an extremely powerful editor that can run nearly anywhere and is generally installed everywhere.
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2021-06-22 09:12:41	spyroboy	if you're a sys admin, vim ends up being your editor of choice purely out of convenience.
2021-06-22 09:12:54	pacblinky	spyroboy yep the another of advantage it is very portable and comptiable os-wide
2021-06-22 09:12:56	kurahaupo	It has all the hallmarks of copy-paste coding run riot for 20 years
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2021-06-22 09:13:25	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 09:13:30	jelly	varaindemian, -z is a test for empty string.  If first argument exists and is not empty, or the second argument is empty; then do stuff.  It's quite unusual to have an empty but defined $1 and non-empty string $2.
2021-06-22 09:13:31	spyroboy	isn't rsnapshot unmaintained?
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2021-06-22 09:13:53	jelly	varaindemian, is this schoolwork or some actual issue?
2021-06-22 09:14:00	-->	Sez (~sez@user/Sez) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:14:10	pacblinky	so what distro are you guys rolling on
2021-06-22 09:14:13	varaindemian	jelly not school work trying to understand a script
2021-06-22 09:14:13	pacblinky	i am running debian 11
2021-06-22 09:14:17	drip	varaindemian: man test (or man [) to find out more about those expressions
2021-06-22 09:14:24	jelly	varaindemian, ! -z could be written as -n
2021-06-22 09:14:30	kurahaupo	varaindemian: ask #bash
2021-06-22 09:14:35	schillingklaus	debian11 has not yet been released
2021-06-22 09:14:42	pacblinky	debian bullseye
2021-06-22 09:14:43	p0g0	schillingklaus, sid
2021-06-22 09:14:44	pacblinky	it is
2021-06-22 09:15:08	jelly	schillingklaus, it's getting close, tentative date of July 31st
2021-06-22 09:15:37	mworkman72	I downloaded a Suse Linux ISO to use with VirtualBox, but think the Azure Cloud VM will be better
2021-06-22 09:15:39	jelly	but yeah, not released yet, 100 or so release-critical bugs to squash
2021-06-22 09:15:43	pacblinky	i think debian is the best os between server and desktop use
2021-06-22 09:16:08	<--	ignis (~ignisf@user/ignis) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-22 09:16:10	Mathisen	bullseye is same as testing
2021-06-22 09:16:13	Sez	mworkman72: depends on what ever you want to do
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2021-06-22 09:16:22	mworkman72	I have not used debian before, but hear many good things about it
2021-06-22 09:16:27	Sez	Mathisen: and testing is 11?
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2021-06-22 09:16:29	jelly	Mathisen, semantics matter.  "bullseye" is _current_ testing
2021-06-22 09:16:33	pacblinky	yes Sez
2021-06-22 09:16:38	pacblinky	mworkman72: it is very robust and stable
2021-06-22 09:16:44	Mathisen	Sez, yes
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2021-06-22 09:16:52	Sez	pacblinky: so you want to underline that you are bleeding edge? ;)
2021-06-22 09:17:03	pacblinky	Sez: yes
2021-06-22 09:17:05	Sez	.oO(debian and bleeding edge;)
2021-06-22 09:17:05	<--	azidhaka_ (~azidhaka@user/azidhaka) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 09:17:17	pacblinky	Sez: balanced as everything should be
2021-06-22 09:17:21	Sez	pacblinky: ever tried gentoo or even better lfs?
2021-06-22 09:17:26	pacblinky	omg gentoo
2021-06-22 09:17:27	kurahaupo	varaindemian: the main thing to understand is that "[" is simply the name of a command that interprets its arguments according to its own mini grammar
2021-06-22 09:17:32	Mathisen	jelly, true
2021-06-22 09:17:42	pacblinky	gentoo is just bad
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2021-06-22 09:17:49	pacblinky	most softwares do not support gentoo
2021-06-22 09:17:53	schillingklaus	I hate bleeding edges
2021-06-22 09:17:54	pacblinky	and you would have to build from source codwe
2021-06-22 09:17:56	spyroboy	<X> is just bad
2021-06-22 09:17:58	pacblinky	and find the dependices
2021-06-22 09:18:01	-->	azidhaka_ (~azidhaka@user/azidhaka) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 09:18:02	jelly	Sez, "bullseye" is the codename for the release that will become debian 11; when that happens, the "bookworm" codename will be used for the new "testing" branch
2021-06-22 09:18:19	 *	kurahaupo gives schillingklaus a band-aid
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2021-06-22 09:18:23	jelly	in due time, bookworm will become debian 12
2021-06-22 09:18:27	pacblinky	i see
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2021-06-22 09:18:43	pacblinky	if you want a good base linux distro debian is your go
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2021-06-22 09:18:48	peetaur	if [ ! -z "$1" ] || [ -z "$2" ]; then      ->  `if ... then` is a shell builtin that is just like if of any language. ! means not. -z means "not empty" (as a string), and [ is test (`help test` for help with it....or man test which is not the same but similar enough). And || will actually still run the 2nd command if the first expression is false unlike in every sane langauge, but otherwise works like the || (which is OR) in other languages.
2021-06-22 09:18:52	<--	backleet (~backleet@user/backleet) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 09:18:52	Sez	jelly: yes that roundrobin swap, my old brain remembers something ;)
2021-06-22 09:19:08	jelly	peetaur, um, -z means empty.
2021-06-22 09:19:11	Kyv	Does any shell come with a manual that is devoid of an adequate definition of the test command?
2021-06-22 09:19:12	peetaur	er .... ! -z  = not empty..... -z is empty  (and also -n is not empty)
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2021-06-22 09:19:15	p0g0	hmm, a bleeding edge release called "styptic" (a compound that staunches bleeding)
2021-06-22 09:19:19	Kyv	you could look in the bloody dash manual
2021-06-22 09:19:21	Mathisen	i like debian for my VPS and other server related stuff. but as for my daily desktop i prefer other dist
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2021-06-22 09:19:50	tango_uniform_xr	i like ubuntu as well
2021-06-22 09:20:07	jelly	Kyv, define "adequate"
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2021-06-22 09:20:24	Sez	after a while does the distro really still make such difference to you guys?
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2021-06-22 09:20:32	tango_uniform_xr	no
2021-06-22 09:20:35	Sez	i mean take x substract y you get z
2021-06-22 09:20:37	jelly	people casually reading a script for the first time might have different needs of explanation than a reference
2021-06-22 09:20:37	p0g0	Sez, to me, yes
2021-06-22 09:20:40	Kyv	Explained more comprehensively than any one person is probably willing to do here.
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2021-06-22 09:21:12	Mathisen	Sez, for my daily desktop yes. i like shiny new stuff so i use a rolling release distro for my daily desktop
2021-06-22 09:21:20	schillingklaus	systemd-distros are avoided by me, for example
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2021-06-22 09:21:30	pacblinky	ubuntu is bad
2021-06-22 09:21:30	pacblinky	Sez: they are not different yeah
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2021-06-22 09:21:37	pacblinky	why peoeple hat systemd and still prefer system init
2021-06-22 09:22:07	pacblinky	i use debian combined with xfce desktop env i just do not care how my desktop
2021-06-22 09:22:09	schillingklaus	because systemd makes linux more windowish than unixish
2021-06-22 09:22:14	pacblinky	i just care about perfomance
2021-06-22 09:22:21	jelly	pacblinky, honestly ubuntu lts is not that much different from debian in terms of release schedules and usability as workstation
2021-06-22 09:22:36	Sez	okok i see you guys are right some things are better here and some there but in the end if you really want things yourway you tweak and if you tweak you could even go as far as lfs and still you will endup using gnu/mit/bsd/linux ;)
2021-06-22 09:22:44	peetaur	pacblinky: sysvinit is awful but solutions and shortcomings are static and known....systemd is run by fools that break all the best practices and the trouble never ends....oh but shiny features!
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2021-06-22 09:23:05	pacblinky	jelly: ubuntu is heavy
2021-06-22 09:23:07	pacblinky	peetaur: i see
2021-06-22 09:23:11	jelly	peetaur, now you're just trolling
2021-06-22 09:23:16	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.2.179) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 09:23:23	peetaur	answering a question is not trolling
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2021-06-22 09:23:34	peetaur	he asked why people hate it, not what the consensus is (there is none)
2021-06-22 09:23:44	pacblinky	Sez: you look like a "i use arch btw" user hahaha
2021-06-22 09:24:19	Khaytsus	What's worse, that, or gentoo
2021-06-22 09:24:20	peetaur	I am an "I use artixlinux btw ... archlinux has systemd :P" user, btqw
2021-06-22 09:24:23	peetaur	*btw
2021-06-22 09:24:41	jelly	pacblinky, I'm using ubuntu 18.04 on a laptop and debian 9 and 10 on desktop workstations, there's no significant difference
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2021-06-22 09:25:27	jelly	any supported web browser will overshadow ANY desktop environment in terms of resource use
2021-06-22 09:25:47	Sez	pacblinky: really? well iirc i used arch kinda as one of my first 'distros' could have been it/or at least its prething, but i thougt my mirror would reflect i do not care what i use, as long as it does it good enough and/or at least i know how to get it doing that ;)
2021-06-22 09:25:55	schillingklaus	lynx does not overshadow gnome3
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2021-06-22 09:26:22	jelly	schillingklaus, it also cannot display 90% of the pages out there
2021-06-22 09:27:03	drip	i learned a lot running gentoo, unfortnuately most of that was learning how to fix gentoo's very specific problems that never applied to anything else (i was not good at updating every month)
2021-06-22 09:27:10	Kyv	Lynx? What do you know... jelly
2021-06-22 09:27:15	schillingklaus	most of those 90% are perverted pornographies and pirated media
2021-06-22 09:27:23	 *	Khaytsus blinks
2021-06-22 09:27:24	Kyv	adequate has just been defined!
2021-06-22 09:27:25	Sez	schillingklaus: why should lynx need gnome? last time i heard about it it was console only? well true you could opt in some features, but gnome?
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2021-06-22 09:27:38	pacblinky	arch is not bad
2021-06-22 09:27:38	pacblinky	it is much better than gentoo
2021-06-22 09:27:38	pacblinky	that
2021-06-22 09:27:39	pacblinky	what is that
2021-06-22 09:27:39	pacblinky	Sez: i see
2021-06-22 09:27:48	Sez	schillingklaus: i see i am not the only one who has tears for gopher ;)
2021-06-22 09:27:50	Khaytsus	pacblinky: Wow, is your dialup modem lagged? :P
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2021-06-22 09:28:16	pacblinky	yes
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2021-06-22 09:28:27	pacblinky	my internet speed is 10kb/sec
2021-06-22 09:28:32	pacblinky	my isp throttle
2021-06-22 09:28:36	 *	Khaytsus blinks
2021-06-22 09:29:16	schillingklaus	no, he pacblinks
2021-06-22 09:29:25	pacblinky	lol
2021-06-22 09:29:37	pacblinky	why no one can get my name
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2021-06-22 09:29:45	pacblinky	it is pacman and the red ghost from pacman
2021-06-22 09:29:58	Khaytsus	wonka wonka
2021-06-22 09:30:11	Khaytsus	(< &
2021-06-22 09:30:17	hodapp	I thought it was a reference to PAC-correctness from statistical learning (Probably Approximately Correct)
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2021-06-22 09:30:31	pacblinky	hodapp: nah
2021-06-22 09:30:34	pacblinky	thats very deep
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2021-06-22 09:32:14	varaindemian	when I'll launch this script I'll use `./script.sh www.google.com monitor_name` can I somehow pass the parameter `monitor_name` inside the script as in: `chromium-browser --name=$2 --new-window --app=$1 & sleep 3` The script I'am talking about: https://pastebin.com/uJAzd8Z9
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2021-06-22 09:32:28	schillingklaus	i do not know anything about red ghosts in package management
2021-06-22 09:32:29	varaindemian	when I'll launch this script I'll use `./script.sh www.google.com monitor_name` can I somehow pass the parameter `monitor_name` inside the script as in: `chromium-browser --name=$2 --new-window --app=$1 & sleep 3` The script I'am talking about: https://pastebin.com/uJAzd8Z9
2021-06-22 09:32:37	varaindemian	sorry!
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2021-06-22 09:36:09	pacblinky	what is the differene between vi and vim
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2021-06-22 09:36:37	SkunkyLaptop	pacblinky: vi is pretty basic.  vim is vi with lots of extra stuff
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2021-06-22 09:36:55	varaindemian	anyone?
2021-06-22 09:37:01	tango_uniform_xr	it's vi improved, that's what it says when you start it
2021-06-22 09:37:46	drip	varaindemian: you got it, monitor_name in that example is $2
2021-06-22 09:37:52	Sez	pacblinky: you would not ask if you had a real vi contact, as SkunkyLaptop said vi is like nano vs pico
2021-06-22 09:38:00	varaindemian	drip perfect :D
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2021-06-22 09:38:47	Sez	but way more basic than difference between them both
2021-06-22 09:38:50	drip	i think your tests on line 1 make no sense, it will always be true and if you fail to provide $2 it will have an empty --name
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2021-06-22 09:41:26	varaindemian	drip one more thing before getting to this if I may ask you :D
2021-06-22 09:41:34	varaindemian	drip can I do this? line 2: https://pastebin.com/HRMJVYmL
2021-06-22 09:42:15	Sez	varaindemian: add to drips said, that it would be nice to have a nice header for your script and to recheck if you are using built in [ or [ as a link to the outer program test....
2021-06-22 09:42:18	drip	i dunno xdotool, but you can always try
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2021-06-22 09:43:04	drip	worst thing is you kill some random process, but PSDoom taught me thats not the end of the world
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2021-06-22 09:43:20	varaindemian	drip cool!
2021-06-22 09:43:40	Wafficus	can anyone help me install Virtualbox Guest Additions ISO for a CentOS VM inside of Virtualbox on a MacOSX host?
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2021-06-22 09:44:19	Wafficus	I followed this guide, but I'm still unable to change my resolution for the guest VM:
2021-06-22 09:44:21	Wafficus	https://www.tecmint.com/install-virtualbox-guest-additions-on-centos-8/
2021-06-22 09:44:31	Sez	varaindemian: and of course the topping would be if you would make the script shell aware and jump according to it for possible scripting differences ;)
2021-06-22 09:44:51	varaindemian	investigating that right now
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2021-06-22 09:45:03	varaindemian	I'll have a couple more questions while understading it :D
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2021-06-22 09:45:18	varaindemian	do you think I should ask everything in #bash ?
2021-06-22 09:45:25	jelly	varaindemian, why do you want the then clause to run if script is called with empty $1?  ./script.sh '' foo
2021-06-22 09:45:44	SkunkyLaptop	Wafficus: you're trying to change the resolution in the vm's X?
2021-06-22 09:45:47	Sez	Wafficus: did you reboot/restart x?
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2021-06-22 09:46:00	Wafficus	yeah I restarted it as well
2021-06-22 09:46:34	Wafficus	SkunkyLaptop that's correct, its the world's smallest box of a VM right now, painfully small
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2021-06-22 09:47:21	Wafficus	I still despise how VirtualBox doesn't just have this built in honestly, but I guess you can't really do this for every OS I guess without giving access to the kernel
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2021-06-22 09:47:31	jelly	varaindemian, sorry, I mean if will run things even if $1 = '' and $2 = '' as well.  What is the purpose of that || [ -z $2 ] ?
2021-06-22 09:48:06	SkunkyLaptop	Wafficus: what driver is the guest using for X?
2021-06-22 09:48:22	Wafficus	The only thing it says at the end of the installation is: ValueError: File context for /opt/VBoxGuestAdditions-6.1.22/other/mount.vboxsf already defined Virtualbox Guest Additions: Running kernel modules will nto be replaced until the system is restarted
2021-06-22 09:48:24	Sez	the kernel modules are loaded and you are sure about the X driver?
2021-06-22 09:48:37	Wafficus	but even after restart it doesn't allow me to change the resolution
2021-06-22 09:48:45	Wafficus	the kernel versions match
2021-06-22 09:48:54	Wafficus	both rpm -q kernel-devel and 'uname -r'
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2021-06-22 09:53:03	drip	varaindemian: i would do something like https://pastebin.com/8eHsZT8q
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2021-06-22 09:53:31	Sez	Wafficus: again lsmod shows the kernel module loaded?
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2021-06-22 09:53:51	Sez	and as SkunkyLaptop said the X driver is correct too?
2021-06-22 09:54:13	Wafficus	really not sure
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2021-06-22 09:54:19	Wafficus	I know its up to date in terms of Virtualbox itself
2021-06-22 09:54:25	Wafficus	first time using it on MacOSX
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2021-06-22 09:54:36	Sez	Wafficus: ok, you know the command lsmod?
2021-06-22 09:54:38	Wafficus	I know VirtualBox is up to date *
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2021-06-22 09:54:50	winircuser-318	gecko: Gecko Connect
2021-06-22 09:54:56	Wafficus	ah yeah I can pipe lsmod into less
2021-06-22 09:55:07	Wafficus	but what am I looking for within lsmod? Sez
2021-06-22 09:55:22	Sez	Wafficus: or in a grep like lsmod | grep vbox
2021-06-22 09:55:27	Sez	for example
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2021-06-22 09:55:45	Sez	or whatever the additions are called today
2021-06-22 09:55:59	Wafficus	I see 'vboxvideo' and 'vboxguest'
2021-06-22 09:56:19	Wafficus	within the lsmod output with grep
2021-06-22 09:56:42	akk	I missed the beginning of this, but on ubuntu 20.10 I always have to do sudo modprobe vboxdrv before I can run virtualbox.
2021-06-22 09:56:44	Sez	Wafficus: should be good enough and the X server you should find .X.log files somewhere
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2021-06-22 09:57:22	Sez	akk: windows switch does not resize desktop or something ;)
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2021-06-22 09:57:46	akk	Okay, ignore my comment, not relevant.
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2021-06-22 09:58:21	Sez	akk: not soo irrelevant as it is the proper way to load if it was not loaded like with Wafficus atm
2021-06-22 09:58:29	Sez	so not a bad comment ;)
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2021-06-22 09:58:46	akk	I always run vbox in a fixed-size window so there's never any resizing -- I didn't even know it could resize.
2021-06-22 09:58:56	SkunkyLaptop	i still wanna see the xorg log file.
2021-06-22 09:58:58	Wafficus	Sez yeah but I still can't change the resolution under VirtualBox VM > Preferences
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2021-06-22 09:59:33	Sez	Wafficus: yeah SkunkyLaptop and I understood that but we need xorg or X11 logs
2021-06-22 09:59:39	Sez	or what ever wayland you use
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2021-06-22 09:59:43	Wafficus	where could I get those logs?
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2021-06-22 10:00:20	Sez	are you starting your x session as a user or is it started by the system
2021-06-22 10:00:30	Sez	first question your own home directory
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2021-06-22 10:00:39	akk	I remember it being hard to change vbox's resolution ... I had to web search for solutions and then I stupidly didn't write down what finally worked.
2021-06-22 10:00:48	Sez	second one go look somewhere /var/log or something
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2021-06-22 10:05:05	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-22 10:05:32	Wafficus	ah I don't have xorg installed, that might be the issue
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2021-06-22 10:05:41	spyroboy	that seems to be a feature
2021-06-22 10:05:46	Wafficus	go figure, I use a minimal CentOS image... and forget to do that :/
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2021-06-22 10:07:08	Sez	Wafficus: there you go.... ;)
2021-06-22 10:07:22	Wafficus	sorry for the idiot mistake :/
2021-06-22 10:07:27	Sez	nevermind
2021-06-22 10:07:29	Sez	happens
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2021-06-22 10:10:23	jim	BluesKaj, hi
2021-06-22 10:10:34	BluesKaj	hi jim
2021-06-22 10:10:53	autopsy	Hi guys.
2021-06-22 10:10:58	jim	hi
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2021-06-22 10:11:07	autopsy	Hai2u
2021-06-22 10:11:21	jim	careful :P
2021-06-22 10:11:36	autopsy	8=====D
2021-06-22 10:11:47	autopsy	ROFL :)
2021-06-22 10:12:09	autopsy	Hows it going jim?
2021-06-22 10:12:35	autopsy	I'm a little confused about the Fedora installer.
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2021-06-22 10:12:56	autopsy	Where do I select which partition to use as the EFI partition?
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2021-06-22 10:13:14	jim	hmm, dunno anything about it... and so far I'm doin good, a little tired
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2021-06-22 10:13:34	Sez	autopsy: and you waited on jim to ask that? ;)
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2021-06-22 10:13:52	autopsy	jim, have you tried some caffiene supplements?
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2021-06-22 10:13:58	ayecee	it's part of his edging strategy.
2021-06-22 10:14:00	Wafficus	autopsy I thought it does LVM by default
2021-06-22 10:14:09	Sez	ayecee: lol ;)
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2021-06-22 10:14:16	ayecee	not really all that funny.
2021-06-22 10:14:36	Sez	ok shhh i said nothing ;)
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2021-06-22 10:14:56	autopsy	Wafficus, yeah, but /boot cannot be LVM, and then I'm curious where the file is that dictates if you have a dual boot setup for example, where the grub2 file is that says windows 10 in it for example.
2021-06-22 10:15:17	Wafficus	hmm dual booting, haven't done it in a while
2021-06-22 10:15:25	Wafficus	can't remember
2021-06-22 10:15:33	Wafficus	#fedora is pretty active though, super helpful
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2021-06-22 10:15:40	Wafficus	had to resize the default 15G LVM the other day
2021-06-22 10:15:47	Wafficus	didn't know it defaults to 15G by default
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2021-06-22 10:16:03	autopsy	Well.. I just had to use automatic parttiotioning to get it to install the boot loader correctly, how can I install the bootloader in Fedora if the installer fails to do it?
2021-06-22 10:16:18	jim	it's because /boot generally contains the initrd images, which could have the lvm driver (so that root in lvm can be mounted)
2021-06-22 10:16:19	lacroix	autopsy, /boot/efi/EFI/fedora/grub.cfg
2021-06-22 10:16:23	autopsy	Boot a LiveCD and then grub2-install didn't seem to work.
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2021-06-22 10:17:03	autopsy	Wafficus, its a percentage of your overall disk space.
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2021-06-22 10:17:37	autopsy	Then again I have a drive that has a pin a wire coming loose from the connector and every once in a while it'll go offline.
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2021-06-22 10:18:06	Wafficus	is it possible to replace the drive? autopsy
2021-06-22 10:18:18	Wafficus	just an idea
2021-06-22 10:18:35	Wafficus	I would hate to have to deal with that. I recommission drives though
2021-06-22 10:18:44	autopsy	The connector? Nope. Its the one coming from the power supply, I could clip it and splice it with another connector probably.
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2021-06-22 10:19:05	Wafficus	oh wow
2021-06-22 10:19:14	Wafficus	is there another plug where you can do a different daisy chain instead?
2021-06-22 10:19:24	Wafficus	*like the female to male adapter
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2021-06-22 10:19:29	autopsy	Yeah well... no.
2021-06-22 10:19:32	Wafficus	haven't had that happen, dang
2021-06-22 10:19:35	Wafficus	*yet :0
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2021-06-22 10:24:19	Wafficus	if I had a minimal CentOS server image, would the xorg-x11-server-Xorg' package be sufficient?
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2021-06-22 10:26:26	autopsy	Wafficus, you also need whatever provides startx
2021-06-22 10:26:38	autopsy	xorg-x11-server-xinit
2021-06-22 10:26:53	Wafficus	ok, thanks will install that too
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2021-06-22 10:27:16	autopsy	https://imgur.com/a/FJj73QA
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2021-06-22 10:27:39	autopsy	Wafficus, look at the image above its the connector wrapped in electrical tape.
2021-06-22 10:27:51	Wafficus	dang
2021-06-22 10:28:03	Wafficus	I am inclined to say solder a new end pin
2021-06-22 10:28:09	Wafficus	but that takes some skill too
2021-06-22 10:28:15	jim	debian, I think, puts startx in package xinit
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2021-06-22 10:28:38	Wafficus	jim does that apply to CentOS as well?
2021-06-22 10:28:45	jim	dunno
2021-06-22 10:28:46	Wafficus	nevermind, CentOS is RedHat based
2021-06-22 10:28:56	Wafficus	so probably same rules for Fedora apply
2021-06-22 10:29:09	autopsy	Yes its the *-xinit* package
2021-06-22 10:29:09	jim	yeah, I would assume so
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2021-06-22 10:29:26	akik	how do i check that my optimus laptop is using the nvidia driver, using the negativo17 driver package?
2021-06-22 10:29:58	autopsy	I remember that because I too sometimes install the server build and then piece together some standard Xorg using Fluxbox.
2021-06-22 10:30:00	jim	maybe that's in glxinfo?
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2021-06-22 10:30:20	autopsy	akik, glxinfo | grep -i Direct
2021-06-22 10:30:32	xythrez	Do you have glxinfo? Just glxinfo | grep -i NVIDIA
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2021-06-22 10:31:04	akik	autopsy: direct rendering: Yes <- that one?
2021-06-22 10:31:06	jim	and no need to caps NVIDIA if you grep -i :)
2021-06-22 10:31:18	autopsy	akik, yep. You have direct renedering.
2021-06-22 10:31:23	xythrez	Force of habit
2021-06-22 10:31:54	akik	autopsy: but how do i know it's not using the intel igpu?
2021-06-22 10:32:13	xythrez	The alternative, grep for Intel
2021-06-22 10:32:14	jim	Linux would have to get on a ladder in order to respond :)
2021-06-22 10:32:18	autopsy	akik, use xrandr
2021-06-22 10:32:22	jim	err, Linus
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2021-06-22 10:32:57	autopsy	akik, they are saying grep for nvidia or intel
2021-06-22 10:33:22	autopsy	Which I'm not sure of... but you could try.
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2021-06-22 10:34:46	autopsy	Wafficus, to build a really tiny server image using Fedora, or CentOS use livecd-tools and use a kickstart file with only the packages you want specified.
2021-06-22 10:35:04	Wafficus	I still cannot just use startx weirdly enough
2021-06-22 10:35:07	Wafficus	even after using this command:
2021-06-22 10:35:18	Wafficus	sudo dnf install xorg-x11-server-Xorg xorg-x11-server-common xorg-x11-server-utils
2021-06-22 10:35:20	autopsy	I built one with just bash and kernel and make gcc and patch one day that was 450MB the whole root filesystem.
2021-06-22 10:35:22	Wafficus	pretty sure this is all I needed on a minimal Debian installation in the past
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2021-06-22 10:35:28	xythrez	I remember that the vendor string had  nvidia and Intel in it. Been a while since I had an optimus setup. And feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
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2021-06-22 10:35:31	Wafficus	wow that's sick autopsy
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2021-06-22 10:35:47	autopsy	Wafficus, you're forgetting the xinit package.
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2021-06-22 10:36:12	autopsy	Wafficus, do: dnf whatprovides */startx
2021-06-22 10:36:31	Wafficus	ah you're right
2021-06-22 10:36:41	Wafficus	I thought it would be included in the server utils package
2021-06-22 10:36:42	Wafficus	my bad
2021-06-22 10:36:47	autopsy	No.
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2021-06-22 10:37:34	autopsy	Wafficus, and if you want to use the root account in its fullest, do : sudo passwd root
2021-06-22 10:37:42	<--	trekkie1701c (~trekkie17@user/trekkie1701c) has quit (Quit: :P)
2021-06-22 10:37:58	autopsy	Then put in your sudo password, and then type your root password twice, then you can su - root alkl day long.
2021-06-22 10:38:07	akik	autopsy: i run these commands and it shows nvidia so i guess it's ok? https://pastebin.com/raw/aNZsLTGZ
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2021-06-22 10:38:51	autopsy	akik, yes its using the Nvidia libgl
2021-06-22 10:39:06	akik	ok thanks
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2021-06-22 10:39:18	autopsy	akik, now try : glxgears
2021-06-22 10:39:32	autopsy	And let it print some info to your terminal about FPS.
2021-06-22 10:39:36	akik	autopsy: yes i'm running both glxgears and supertuxkart
2021-06-22 10:39:48	autopsy	At the same time?
2021-06-22 10:39:56	akik	yes
2021-06-22 10:39:59	autopsy	Yeah.
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2021-06-22 10:40:28	akik	i wasn't able to make the rpmfusion nvidia package work
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2021-06-22 10:41:28	autopsy	Wafficus, yeah at 450 MB with gcc, I could get a bash login and compile whatever I needed to using just that root filesystem. I swear to god it is awesome being able to compile your own system with Fedora. You should imagine the amount of RAM it used using X and Fluxbox on another one I made.
2021-06-22 10:41:43	autopsy	akik, so what did you do?
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2021-06-22 10:41:52	autopsy	akik, where did it fail?
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2021-06-22 10:43:33	autopsy	Did you see this jim? https://imgur.com/a/FJj73QA
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2021-06-22 10:44:05	akik	autopsy: the page says i don't need any config, just install the packages but then i would get weird jams and the dmesg showed "NVRM: Xid (PCI:0000:01:00): 45, pid=3247, Ch 00000010"
2021-06-22 10:44:31	autopsy	NVRM. Hum.
2021-06-22 10:44:31	akik	and the jams continued and that Ch 00000010 kept repeating
2021-06-22 10:44:58	autopsy	Ddi you reboot after installing the packages tho9ugh?
2021-06-22 10:45:23	akik	autopsy: yes
2021-06-22 10:45:28	autopsy	Oh ok.
2021-06-22 10:45:54	autopsy	Yeah because you have to to blacklist nouveau properly.
2021-06-22 10:45:54	akik	it seems to be stable now
2021-06-22 10:46:09	autopsy	akik, so you're using the binary from Nvidia's website?
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2021-06-22 10:46:28	akik	i would get supertuxkart textures go weird before and now it works ok
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2021-06-22 10:46:59	akik	autopsy: no, https://negativo17.org/nvidia-driver/
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2021-06-22 10:47:04	akik	fedora 33
2021-06-22 10:47:21	autopsy	Oh well. Ok.
2021-06-22 10:47:34	autopsy	Its ok either way but.. glad that it works.
2021-06-22 10:47:43	akik	i was just thinking whether there would be a test program that would show directly if it's running on nvidia or not
2021-06-22 10:47:46	autopsy	It is working as you can see from glxgears
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2021-06-22 10:48:07	autopsy	akik, xrandr
2021-06-22 10:48:32	autopsy	akik, lsmod
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2021-06-22 10:48:54	autopsy	Look for a module named nvidia or something.
2021-06-22 10:48:56	akik	autopsy: xrandr doesn't show nvidia or intel
2021-06-22 10:49:22	akik	this is from lsmod: nvidia_drm             69632  8
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2021-06-22 10:50:50	autopsy	akik, ok there's your proof nvidia direct rendering module.
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2021-06-22 10:51:12	autopsy	Bound to 8 other modules.
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2021-06-22 10:51:23	ayecee	digital rights management
2021-06-22 10:51:26	<--	icy (~icy@user/icy) has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-06-22 10:51:36	autopsy	With 69,632 bytes in its path.
2021-06-22 10:51:46	autopsy	Digital Rights Management ayeceE?
2021-06-22 10:51:49	ayecee	yes
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2021-06-22 10:51:59	autopsy	Naww.
2021-06-22 10:52:12	autopsy	Couldn't be.
2021-06-22 10:52:24	autopsy	I thought it was direct renemdering something or other.
2021-06-22 10:52:36	ayecee	only one way to find out
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2021-06-22 10:52:43	autopsy	What google it?
2021-06-22 10:52:55	ayecee	i don't know what that way is, but i'm sure there's a way
2021-06-22 10:53:08	autopsy	The way is of the osprey.
2021-06-22 10:53:46	autopsy	akik, so there you have it... lsmod.
2021-06-22 10:54:24	ayecee	maybe you're on to something. no clear answers, but more hits for nvidia_drm with direct rendering than digital rights
2021-06-22 10:54:26	akik	i'll leave those apps running and check later whether there's a problem
2021-06-22 10:54:38	camel_case	Fedora is a good distribution
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2021-06-22 10:54:53	autopsy	akik, theres a GTK Stress Kit package you can get that will stress the GPU.
2021-06-22 10:55:11	autopsy	Fedora is the /best/ distribution by far.
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2021-06-22 10:55:40	autopsy	ayecee, well.... I thought it was direct rendering management or module or medium.
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2021-06-22 10:56:54	autopsy	akik, let me see if I can come up with the name of the package for the GTK stress package.
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2021-06-22 10:57:22	akik	autopsy: i installed gst but it doesn't include gpu tests
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2021-06-22 10:58:21	autopsy	akik, ok well try also: stress
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2021-06-22 10:59:03	autopsy	akik, theres a reall cool one I got from the software catalog that is a fully featured GTK stress tester for the GPU.
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2021-06-22 11:01:53	akik	i think it's ok now. i don't get those nvrm lines
2021-06-22 11:02:06	autopsy	gtk3-tests.x86_64 : Tests for the gtk3 package
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2021-06-22 11:02:43	akik	what's really weird is that 010 is "unused" https://docs.nvidia.com/deploy/xid-errors/index.html
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2021-06-22 11:03:33	autopsy	akik, check this out: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/250404/error-output-by-dmesg-nvrm-xid-/
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2021-06-22 11:05:19	akik	autopsy: he's asking if somebody knows about it
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2021-06-22 11:06:14	mome	Question: Does anyone knows about any online academy to teach linux related stuff for teenagers?
2021-06-22 11:06:14	autopsy	akik, oh yeah sorry.
2021-06-22 11:06:17	<--	RNadagoud (~RNadagoud@2402:3a80:cca:e776:c91:554c:c01b:66c7) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 11:06:47	craigevil[m]	<mome "Question: Does anyone knows abou"> search edx for free courses
2021-06-22 11:06:54	-->	arash (~arash@5.124.30.120) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 11:07:38	ayecee	craigevil[m]: when you reply like that in matrix it puts this in front of your response for non-matrix users: <mome "Question: Does anyone knows abou">
2021-06-22 11:07:51	ayecee	please turn that off
2021-06-22 11:08:02	autopsy	https://imgur.com/gallery/k2K0fWe
2021-06-22 11:08:32	autopsy	:P
2021-06-22 11:08:54	<--	oxum (~oxum@106.203.210.162) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 11:09:57	mome	craigevil[m]: Thanks
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2021-06-22 11:19:13	akik	autopsy: now that i closed glxgears and supertuxkart i got this "NVRM: Xid (PCI:0000:01:00): 8, pid=1061, Channel 00000001"
2021-06-22 11:19:41	autopsy	akik, ok hold on.
2021-06-22 11:20:32	akik	and now "NVRM: Xid (PCI:0000:01:00): 8, pid=20327, Channel 00000010"
2021-06-22 11:20:56	ayecee	what does the message mean?
2021-06-22 11:20:57	autopsy	akik, run: ps ax and tell me what processes are PID 1061 and 20327
2021-06-22 11:21:09	akik	and supertuxkart jammed
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2021-06-22 11:21:44	autopsy	akik, also run: lspci and tell me what is the 0000:01:00 device
2021-06-22 11:21:50	akik	20327 is glxgears
2021-06-22 11:21:55	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-22 11:22:21	akik	interesting that those messages didn't come up for 15 minutes after the laptop boot and running them
2021-06-22 11:22:58	autopsy	akik, I've gotta find the name of the package fro the GTK stress package you should use it.
2021-06-22 11:23:18	akik	01:00 is nvidia
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2021-06-22 11:23:36	akik	01:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK208BM [GeForce 920M] (rev a1)
2021-06-22 11:24:15	ayecee	oh. xid 8 is "GPU stopped processing". I guess that's not all that useful. https://docs.nvidia.com/pdf/XID_Errors.pdf
2021-06-22 11:24:26	akik	i don't get xid 8
2021-06-22 11:24:38	ayecee	uh... both of your lines were xid 8
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2021-06-22 11:25:18	autopsy	akik, you said you already installed gst?
2021-06-22 11:25:20	akik	oh right i read it wrong
2021-06-22 11:25:27	autopsy	akik "GtkStressTesting (GST) GST is a GTK system utility designed to stress and monitor various hardware components like CPU and RAM."
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2021-06-22 11:25:55	akik	autopsy: yes but gst only had cpu tests + some others
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2021-06-22 11:26:06	autopsy	akik, aww crappy.
2021-06-22 11:26:06	ayecee	the pdf says that could be driver error, user app error, bus error, or thermal issue, which leaves it pretty wide open
2021-06-22 11:27:02	autopsy	akik, ok here: https://www.maketecheasier.com/stress-test-graphics-card-linux/
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2021-06-22 11:27:22	akik	i'm not sure if this driver version is for this chip that is from 2014/2015
2021-06-22 11:27:58	akik	well i know there is a problem
2021-06-22 11:28:06	saint_	hi all - i have a network question, not really linux related, but thinking maybe some of you got exposed to and have a solution. I have close to 1K VPN clients. the way this company is setup is all clients have the public ip address of the vpn. they can't use fqdn in their software, only IP addresses. the enterprise internet link to the vpn server went down. so all clients got stuck. is there any vpn load balancer or anything i could do where if a
2021-06-22 11:28:06	saint_	 client point to one ip address, then this ip address load balance or try different IP addresses in the backbone, to connect the client? So if the internet link to the vpn server is down, then this box would try another ip address, and if it works, send the clients there ?
2021-06-22 11:28:13	akik	so i don't know what running a benchmark would help
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2021-06-22 11:28:36	Wafficus	maybe try #networking saint_
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2021-06-22 11:28:44	saint_	Wafficus good point thanks
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2021-06-22 11:29:09	akik	i'll reboot the laptop and test that gputest
2021-06-22 11:29:12	autopsy	akik The first method for a GPU stress test on Linux is to use the GpuTest tool. This cross-platform tool is available for Linux, macOS and Windows PCs
2021-06-22 11:29:18	peetaur	saint_: maybe haproxy
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2021-06-22 11:29:36	autopsy	akik, its not a benchamark its a testing tool.
2021-06-22 11:29:52	saint_	peetaur oh, right, like nginx maybe? Good point, i'll check it out. i think you are right, NGINX might be able to d othat
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2021-06-22 11:30:32	autopsy	akik, its gotta be for that chip or else it wouldn't display anything,
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2021-06-22 11:32:22	peetaur	I have no idea what nginx has to do with that... haproxy is a thing you might put in front of an nginx though.
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2021-06-22 11:33:19	akik	autopsy: nvidia says that the latest driver for 920m is 430.34 but the negativo17 package is 465.31
2021-06-22 11:33:35	peetaur	(I guess I should have assumed you meant "like with nginx")
2021-06-22 11:33:50	akik	there are multiple driver versions for 920m
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2021-06-22 11:34:17	autopsy	akik, ok maybe it is driver related the Xid error your get.
2021-06-22 11:34:28	xiaomiao	saint_: you may want to figure out a high availability setup, VRRP and ucarp might be good search terms to start with
2021-06-22 11:34:36	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 11:34:51	xiaomiao	saint_: but that still leaves some single points of failure, fixing them might depend on the budget you have for fixing
2021-06-22 11:34:59	<--	badsektor (~badsektor@user/badsektor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-22 11:35:17	saint_	xiaomiao thank you. they have "no budget or very little budget" as usual ...
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2021-06-22 11:35:23	xiaomiao	haha
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2021-06-22 11:35:39	xiaomiao	then the solution will be lots of glue and some tape ;)
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2021-06-22 11:37:24	saint_	xiaomiao i know. it's the sys/network admin everyday challenge lol.
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2021-06-22 11:41:43	ulu	my (rather old) laptop freezes completely for few minutes, It has to do with the HDD but i want to understand if is a hardware issue or not. How can I rule out if it due to the hardware?
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2021-06-22 11:42:01	xiaomiao	ulu: 'freezing' sounds like swapping
2021-06-22 11:42:01	ulu	I run iotop, and when it is freezing it shows 99% IO activity
2021-06-22 11:42:30	xiaomiao	you may want to either run less things in parallel, or figure out how to optimize available memory
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2021-06-22 11:42:42	Wafficus	man I still can't get this stupid Virtualbox guest additions ISO image to actually work even with CentOS and Gnome
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2021-06-22 11:42:52	xiaomiao	I've heard some people having good results with zram/zswap, maybe that helps
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2021-06-22 11:43:33	ulu	xiaomiao, if is is due to swapping can I check taht in the list of processes in iotop?
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2021-06-22 11:43:56	ulu	i do see kswapd0 but that one doesn't use many resources apparently
2021-06-22 11:44:14	ulu	also jbd-sal1-8 is always on top
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2021-06-22 11:44:24	xiaomiao	I'm not sure how swap looks like in iotop ... but e.g. 'free -m' output might be interesting
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2021-06-22 11:44:35	scara	I have a huge list of subnets and a few ips, I want to check if a ip belongs to a subnet and if so, I want to know whitch one too
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2021-06-22 11:44:40	ulu	jbd2/sda1-8
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2021-06-22 11:47:06	autopsy	scara, a subnet may look like this: 207.28.192.0 and an IP in that subnet has this: 207.28.192.100
2021-06-22 11:47:31	scara	It uses proper cidar too
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2021-06-22 11:47:45	autopsy	scara, your question is a little strange in that regard... as we all think you are able to discern what IP belongs to which subnets by the octets.
2021-06-22 11:47:54	scara	1.2.3.4 is an ip, 1.2.3.0/24 is a subnet
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2021-06-22 11:48:38	scara	I don't know, I just know it belongs to one of the subnets and have no idea how to quickly figure out whitch one
2021-06-22 11:48:44	autopsy	scara, /24 is a means of deducing how many 8 bit addresses are covered by a range.
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2021-06-22 11:49:05	autopsy	scara, /24 is a range.
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2021-06-22 11:49:14	autopsy	Not a subnet.
2021-06-22 11:49:19	scara	Yea but there isv various kinds of subnets, I have seen some /12 and /13 too
2021-06-22 11:49:59	scara	Thease are the diffrent kinds watch -n1 -d "ps axu | awk '{if (\$8==\"D\") {print \$0}}'"
2021-06-22 11:50:01	scara	oops
2021-06-22 11:50:02	autopsy	scara, no 8 16 plus 8 is a range.
2021-06-22 11:50:02	scara	10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32
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2021-06-22 11:50:06	scara	thats the one
2021-06-22 11:50:10	fikran	hi all. We have a system that is rebooting at at midnight. Is there a way to determine what is causing that?
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2021-06-22 11:50:29	autopsy	fikran, check boot.log messages and dmesg
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2021-06-22 11:50:46	fikran	autopsy: will boot.log say which command/parent process ran reboot?
2021-06-22 11:51:08	Samizdat	scara: can we have that in Roman numerals?
2021-06-22 11:51:15	autopsy	fikran, last will also tell you reboot from which tty
2021-06-22 11:51:18	scara	autopsy: I have multiple subnets in thease ranges 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 so like 10 to 32 it seems
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2021-06-22 11:52:21	autopsy	scara, ok, but those are ranges, not subnets.
2021-06-22 11:52:22	fikran	autopsy: its being done by "system boot"
2021-06-22 11:52:33	peetaur	fikran: if some software is telling it to reboot...log that software. If instead the kernel decides to do something, like maybe overheat or whatever, it should be in the kernel log (get it with a serial console...sometimes `ssh thatmachin dmesg -w > logfile` works). If that fails, you can try a crash kernel. And if that fails, it's almost certainly firmware or hardware related and the software has no chance to solve it... might need a bios update, disable
2021-06-22 11:52:34	peetaur	acpi or whatever to work around it.
2021-06-22 11:52:45	autopsy	fikran, now check systemctl and journalctl
2021-06-22 11:52:45	scara	autopsy: yes, the subnets would be too much to send via irc, do you want them?
2021-06-22 11:53:10	fikran	autopsy: heh, I need to learn those two better.
2021-06-22 11:53:11	scara	https://lainsafe.kalli.st/files/162437718684166.a
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2021-06-22 11:53:48	autopsy	fikran, look for a timer that is set for 24 hours in a day or 12:00
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2021-06-22 11:54:07	autopsy	fikran, systemctl should show timers
2021-06-22 11:54:10	peetaur	For example nouveau is awful and can cause hangs, and those are almost always in the kernel log. But if the filesystem is crashing, you won't find them on disk...you'll need a remote machine to record it. And an example where it's firmware and your logs will never show it: https://community.amd.com/thread/224000
2021-06-22 11:54:23	peetaur	the fs one is where a crash kernel also works.
2021-06-22 11:54:42	autopsy	scara, sure if you want to explain what you want to do with them one more time, pastebin them.
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2021-06-22 11:55:18	scara	autopsy: I literly just send you a link to the list of subnets, https://lainsafe.kalli.st/files/162437718684166.a
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2021-06-22 11:56:01	autopsy	scara, is this a text file?
2021-06-22 11:56:08	fikran	autopsy: I think that might be a good way to do it!
2021-06-22 11:56:09	scara	yes
2021-06-22 11:56:36	autopsy	scara, yes those are ranges of subnets. not subnets.
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2021-06-22 11:57:00	scara	OMG, this link https://lainsafe.kalli.st/files/162437718684166.a contains a list of subnets
2021-06-22 11:57:04	autopsy	fikran, system boot is a target.
2021-06-22 11:57:22	autopsy	scara, ok whatever.
2021-06-22 11:57:39	autopsy	scara, what are you trying to do with them? Again?
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2021-06-22 11:57:44	scara	Whatever you want to call it, I want to check if a ip belongs to any of those
2021-06-22 11:58:16	autopsy	You'd know if the IP belongs to one if you would compare the goddamn numbers buddy.
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2021-06-22 11:58:29	scara	HOW
2021-06-22 11:58:55	autopsy	192.168.1.0/24 includes for example 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.128.0
2021-06-22 11:59:06	autopsy	Thats how.
2021-06-22 11:59:12	autopsy	They are octets.
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2021-06-22 11:59:16	scara	Yea but not all of them are /24
2021-06-22 11:59:20	fikran	autopsy: we have a lot of notes THAT this system is reboot, not WHY its rebooting.
2021-06-22 11:59:20	autopsy	Ok.
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2021-06-22 12:01:00	autopsy	fikran, heres a good test, run a crond task that does init S just before the time it usually reboots, and see if it reboots again... if it does then you know you have a simple list of processes that are running in runlevel Single user (root) that is the culrptit or the kernel itself but that would be strange.
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2021-06-22 12:01:46	autopsy	scara, ok, so I can write you up some bash script to input an ip address and check it to display what subnet range it belongs to want that?
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2021-06-22 12:02:04	scara	ok
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2021-06-22 12:05:46	Samizdat	Atta boy, niko, that's what we need, new rules.
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2021-06-22 12:08:07	t4nk_freenode	yeah, niko-- .
2021-06-22 12:08:12	autopsy	scara, basically /24 is up to 128.0
2021-06-22 12:08:24	omegatron	Samizdat: obviously, your new overlords know it better  =D
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2021-06-22 12:08:54	autopsy	scara, so /32 would be 192.X.1.0
2021-06-22 12:08:58	treefrob	gah, how annoying
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2021-06-22 12:09:22	Samizdat	Ooh -- welcome to libera (a.k.a. Wokeville) -- the overlordless network.
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2021-06-22 12:09:48	angular_mike_	where does sensors get info on max RPM?
2021-06-22 12:09:56	t4nk_freenode	please take a stance up against the wall, don't breathe, spread and shut up
2021-06-22 12:10:01	treefrob	"wokeville"? that's some alt-right/neo-con catchphrase
2021-06-22 12:10:31	autopsy	scara, don't you understand that they are ranges?
2021-06-22 12:10:33	Samizdat	Would you prefer Wokesville?
2021-06-22 12:10:42	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@89.149.84.27) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 12:10:47	Samizdat	A Monkees fan favorite.
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2021-06-22 12:11:17	autopsy	scaraa 4 octets is 32 bits.
2021-06-22 12:12:12	autopsy	scara, I took a data mathematics class in college this is whow I know this. They didn't teach me the networking they taught me about octets and base 8 and binary octal and hexadecimal.
2021-06-22 12:12:15	akik	autopsy: /32 is for one single host
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2021-06-22 12:12:23	esselfe	octet is french
2021-06-22 12:12:31	autopsy	akik, ok.
2021-06-22 12:12:36	rud0lf	les octet
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2021-06-22 12:13:11	rud0lf	PC is OP in french, ordinateur personnel
2021-06-22 12:13:13	autopsy	So /32 is one then /24 is for 192.168.128.0 like I said akik, right?
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2021-06-22 12:13:48	angular_mike_	what is hyst in  `temp3_crit_hyst`?
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2021-06-22 12:13:49	akik	192.168.128.0/24 is 192.168.128.0 to 192.168.128.255
2021-06-22 12:14:08	autopsy	Yes exactly.
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2021-06-22 12:14:18	autopsy	scara, so there you go...
2021-06-22 12:14:21	 *	jelly tries hard not to correct that to to ...254
2021-06-22 12:14:21	akik	i gave up on the nvidia thing for now. i'll test the older driver on ubuntu
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2021-06-22 12:14:53	akik	jelly: do you mean the broadcast address is not part of the subnet?
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2021-06-22 12:16:11	autopsy	The broadcast address is part of the subnet actually.
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2021-06-22 12:17:21	autopsy	So you have 32 which is .X 24 which is .XXX
2021-06-22 12:17:22	demon	hello
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2021-06-22 12:17:31	demon	currently having issues building electron
2021-06-22 12:17:35	-->	r00tobo (~r00tobo@user/r00tobo) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 12:17:36	demon	https://filebin.net/jolcepkbumgtns9u
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2021-06-22 12:17:45	angular_mike_	demon: didn't someone else mention it earlier today
2021-06-22 12:17:46	demon	Can anyone point me in the right direction why this would fail?
2021-06-22 12:17:49	Kyv	akik: as an aside, there is an automatic nvidia configure for xorg in nvidia-utils package.
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2021-06-22 12:18:02	demon	no idea
2021-06-22 12:18:21	Kyv	you can do this manually but usually I set device section as well as a couple others for options like acpid and edid disable.
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2021-06-22 12:18:38	Wafficus	Samizdat based
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2021-06-22 12:19:46	hodapp	ugh, is he turning everything into a "wokeness" problem yet again?
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2021-06-22 12:20:11	Kyv	any driver you install there should blacklist nouveau module so probably need to contend with that
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2021-06-22 12:20:27	hodapp	cripes. it's like a pull-string toy
2021-06-22 12:20:39	autopsy	In octal 777 is 255 in decimal.
2021-06-22 12:20:47	akik	demon: that log is HUGE
2021-06-22 12:20:53	demon	yeah lol
2021-06-22 12:21:01	akik	demon: maybe you could search it yourself first
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2021-06-22 12:21:20	demon	hold on
2021-06-22 12:21:22	rbh	I'm trying to install a custom kernel on my arch install. I've run `make`, `make modules` and they have finished successfully. Now I need to run make install and make modules_install
2021-06-22 12:21:22	demon	I have
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2021-06-22 12:21:37	hodapp	autopsy: dec 25 is oct 31 which is why programmers mix up halloween and christmas
2021-06-22 12:21:45	 *	hodapp ducks
2021-06-22 12:21:45	rbh	My question was, does this process install my nvidia driver too? or is there a seperate process for it?
2021-06-22 12:21:50	autopsy	rbh, you're forgetting make bzImage
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2021-06-22 12:22:05	rbh	make already creates one for me afaik autopsy
2021-06-22 12:22:24	autopsy	rbh, make default taregt is bzImage? too?
2021-06-22 12:22:39	rbh	I think so, yes
2021-06-22 12:22:44	autopsy	hodapp, thats not important on Jan 1
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2021-06-22 12:23:27	autopsy	rbh, install your nvidia driver, from where?
2021-06-22 12:23:44	demon	http://dpaste.com/5HFEMB8S3
2021-06-22 12:23:58	autopsy	rbh, to include custom modules, you need a Makefile in the toplevel modules directory to install it.
2021-06-22 12:23:58	peetaur	rbh: "sudo make install" is usually a bad idea...the package manager should handle it instead, and that's pretty easy on arch. Just get the PKGBUILD and "makepkg" it. https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-packages/tree/packages/linux/trunk and point it to your files.  (it was better in the past...they used to point to vanilla sources and have .patch files, as they properly should, but now it's in their own repo so you would have to look harder to see whether
2021-06-22 12:24:00	peetaur	you want the patches).
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2021-06-22 12:24:49	peetaur	but for all the things you can do with `sudo make install`, the kernel is the least bad...it is easy to find the files it installs (only /boot/ and /lib/modules/ basically, with dirs and files with that version in the name)
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2021-06-22 12:25:57	peetaur	and there's a extra/nvidia-dkms ...why not use that?
2021-06-22 12:26:18	hoppity	Hi guys, does anyone know why inotify-tools would work perfectly except for two specific files inside a folder?
2021-06-22 12:26:41	peetaur	hoppity: did you point it at the files or the dir?
2021-06-22 12:27:04	rbh	autopsy: not really sure how to do that
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2021-06-22 12:27:24	hoppity	peetaur, I have never had to point it and it works perfectly for my whole project except these particular two files. I imagine I have to tell it to rescan or something?
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2021-06-22 12:27:32	rbh	peetaur: ill check out makepkg once again, I tried it out earlier and it didnt work out very well. im looking into dkms right now as well
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2021-06-22 12:28:23	rbh	nevermind, I just remembered im not even using any nvidia drivers right now
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2021-06-22 12:29:28	autopsy	I started using Linux in 1995 theres not much I can't figure out.
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2021-06-22 12:29:34	rbh	for makepkg, can I just replace the repo name with my own repo>
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2021-06-22 12:30:36	peetaur	rbh: basically... but run it once to see what else it might need
2021-06-22 12:31:04	peetaur	probably also change the version and package name (or it'll replace your regular kernel)
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2021-06-22 12:31:45	peetaur	pkgbase=linux -> pkgbase=linux-rbh     pkgver=5.12.12.arch1 -> ... ideally it would describe your actual kernel sources if not 5.12.12
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2021-06-22 12:32:35	peetaur	and apparently _srctag=... is based on pkgver, so either tag appropriately, or set that too, or change the repo url so it doesn't use that
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2021-06-22 12:34:33	autopsy	Dude I was smoking a cigarette and as I lit the cigarette a piece of ash fell on my pinky finger on my left hand still lit and it burned my damn finger.
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2021-06-22 12:35:19	rbh	sorry, wifi dropped
2021-06-22 12:35:20	omegatron	one more reason to stop smoking cigarettes
2021-06-22 12:35:23	autopsy	What is arch's packages an ar archive?
2021-06-22 12:35:27	Wafficus	autopsy what's the craziest Linux box you've installed to date?
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2021-06-22 12:35:43	Wafficus	are you now one of those wizards that does Linux from scratch?
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2021-06-22 12:41:14	jim	well debian packages are an ar, dunno about arch
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2021-06-22 12:41:41	gtlsgamr	what is up
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2021-06-22 12:42:16	babyface	there's almost a thousand more users in this channel than there is in #linux over att Fleanode
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2021-06-22 12:43:06	hodapp	don't malign the good name of flea86
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2021-06-22 12:46:40	jim	movin to montana soon... gonna be a dental floss tycoon...
2021-06-22 12:47:29	jim	babyface, so, about 500?
2021-06-22 12:47:38	babyface	right
2021-06-22 12:48:42	jim	like I always maintained, each person has a choice of where they want to be
2021-06-22 12:48:44	Wafficus	Dental Flossssss
2021-06-22 12:49:00	Wafficus	jim are you gonna play a Gibson SG too
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2021-06-22 12:49:29	jim	that's right, zappa can clearly be seen playing an sg
2021-06-22 12:49:32	gtlsgamr	:q
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2021-06-22 12:50:14	jim	I have a gibson "The Paul" (not les paul)
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2021-06-22 12:50:47	Wafficus	Double cut jr? jim
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2021-06-22 12:54:26	Kyv	Zappa can clearly be seen playing lots of different guitars
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2021-06-22 12:56:21	_s0n	alow
2021-06-22 12:56:21	jim	Wafficus, no, it's a full size, same shape as a les paul
2021-06-22 12:56:30	jim	hi
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2021-06-22 12:56:56	Kyv	And I have seen some hum-dingers from Gibson over the years too
2021-06-22 12:57:05	Kyv	their quality control went down the tubes, it seems
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2021-06-22 12:57:16	_s0n	anyone with scripting for audit machine... like collect general service information, log ... important information for auditing... to consider for a patching (park update)
2021-06-22 12:57:23	jim	glad I got mine before that happened
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2021-06-22 12:59:29	gtlsgamr	hey]
2021-06-22 12:59:31	_s0n	anyone breathing?
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2021-06-22 12:59:45	gtlsgamr	yes I am!
2021-06-22 12:59:50	_s0n	uff
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2021-06-22 13:02:12	jim	_s0n, I don't know about what the scripts are for an audit machine... or what language they're scripted in
2021-06-22 13:02:29	_s0n	only bash
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2021-06-22 13:05:45	jim	_s0n, aside, if you were to run xonsh, you'd have some of the sh features in the syntax, but you'd also have python3
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2021-06-22 13:10:07	_s0n	anyone
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2021-06-22 13:36:14	gneves	sup
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2021-06-22 13:38:32	lacroix	hi
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2021-06-22 13:39:18	scara	Is there a faster way ro delete files then the rm command? It's been like 2 hours, this is slowwwwww
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2021-06-22 13:41:26	hodapp	just how many files are you deleting? and is it from a network share or something?
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2021-06-22 13:41:59	scara	Its a internal HDD
2021-06-22 13:42:13	scara	like alot of small files that is total of a few Gbs
2021-06-22 13:42:36	scara	I think it takes a while becuse its individual files
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2021-06-22 13:47:10	Aryan	jim: Hi :D
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2021-06-22 14:08:06	PlanckLort	Hey! Would appreciate some kernel space help! I'm currently working on a driver, in the driver I have a GPIO interrupt where i schedule a function in a workqueue. The function will only do a SPI transfer. My issue is that the scheduled work someimtes happens with too high latency. Is it possible to increase the priority of the work or is there something else than workqueues I could use to get a
2021-06-22 14:08:08	PlanckLort	lower latency (between the interrupt and actual spi transfer)
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2021-06-22 14:10:14	akik	PlanckLort: there are patches to give you a realtime kernel
2021-06-22 14:10:42	Sauvin	The caveat is that realtime kernels aren't as responsive as what comes stock with most linux distros.
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2021-06-22 14:11:13	akik	https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/
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2021-06-22 14:11:43	lacroix	PlanckLort, you're using the system wide work queue?
2021-06-22 14:11:49	rannnn8888	maybe someone see here problem ? in the momry ? https://dpaste.org/Qifv
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2021-06-22 14:12:23	akik	Sauvin: what do you mean responsive? i use that for an audio workstation and it works fine
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2021-06-22 14:12:47	PlanckLort	akik: I have tried the RT patch, although i only wrote a user space program to try get the latency low enough which wasn't enough
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2021-06-22 14:13:06	Sauvin	Yeah, a lot of audio work really needs realtime. Let me dig up what I ran across...
2021-06-22 14:13:11	PlanckLort	lacroix: I'm not sure what you mean by system wide workqueue.
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2021-06-22 14:14:22	rannnn8888	maybe someone see here problem ? in the momry ? https://dpaste.org/Qifv
2021-06-22 14:14:32	Sauvin	https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/real-time-kernel
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2021-06-22 14:15:01	Sauvin	That should say something. Other things I've run across suggest that a realtime kernel would feel "sluggish" to people used to stock kernels.
2021-06-22 14:15:15	Sauvin	rannnn8888, what kind of problem are you looking for?
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2021-06-22 14:16:21	rannnn8888	Sauvin i run script in python scrap and somtimes its start work very slow i try find what the problem ,i not fint problem in my script
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2021-06-22 14:16:40	ananke	rannnn8888: line 32: VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
2021-06-22 14:17:05	rannnn8888	ananke what is the VmallocTotal: mean what use him can cheack ?
2021-06-22 14:17:19	ananke	rannnn8888: google for that word
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2021-06-22 14:18:31	Codaraxis	Could someone explain why ```ps -ef``` is missing some processes from a user that appear on ```top```?
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2021-06-22 14:18:35	rannnn8888	ananke i can cheack what use this ?
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2021-06-22 14:19:09	lacroix	PlanckLort, read LDD3 Chapter 7
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2021-06-22 14:20:34	akik	Sauvin: i don't see/read anything about realtime kernel problems in that url
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2021-06-22 14:21:23	Sauvin	A real-time kernel is not necessarily superior or better than a standard kernel. Instead, it meets different business or system requirements. It is an optimized kernel designed to maintain low latency, consistent response time, and determinism. By way of comparison, a standard RHEL kernel focuses on throughput-oriented operations and fair scheduling of tasks.
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2021-06-22 14:23:04	Sauvin	https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/553980/why-would-anyone-choose-not-to-use-the-lowlatency-kernel
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2021-06-22 14:23:17	PlanckLort	lacroix: thanks
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2021-06-22 14:32:11	akik	Sauvin: so are you saying PlanckLort shouldn't use a realtime kernel ?
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2021-06-22 14:32:31	akik	that description reads to me that's just the correct solution to his problem
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2021-06-22 14:32:55	akik	i.e. a hardware latency needs to be taken as low as possible
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2021-06-22 14:37:34	treefrob	Codaraxis, why do you use ``` to quote when, as everyone knows, the current standard is ```````````````this is quoted ```````````````
2021-06-22 14:37:41	Sauvin	I'm saying there is good and bad to either kind of kernel.
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2021-06-22 14:39:48	XiKGJpdAHbVc	1uRing frEeNOdE Users hERE 1S 1mPUdent thefT
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2021-06-22 14:40:12	themachine	O_o
2021-06-22 14:40:13	eviloverlord	oh wow... l33t
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2021-06-22 14:40:25	neshpion	i ' m   s h a k i n g
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2021-06-22 14:44:01	tusko	m e t ooooo
2021-06-22 14:44:04	tusko	#
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2021-06-22 14:49:46	jim	Aryan, hi
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2021-06-22 14:58:09	fifihyperbola	what can i do on linux???
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2021-06-22 14:58:43	themachine	whatever you want
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2021-06-22 15:04:36	fifihyperbola	i dont know what i can do here
2021-06-22 15:04:47	fifihyperbola	i am not IT can't program or write scripts
2021-06-22 15:05:13	fendur	maybe that's what you'll use it to learn, then.
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2021-06-22 15:05:28	fifihyperbola	how can i learn???
2021-06-22 15:05:40	byte4byte	jim will teach you
2021-06-22 15:05:41	fendur	same way you learn anything else. practice.
2021-06-22 15:05:41	ananke	fifihyperbola: start by learning that one question mark is sufficient.
2021-06-22 15:05:42	neshpion	you can google for beginner linux tutorials
2021-06-22 15:05:43	-->	lautre[m] (~lautremat@2001:470:69fc:105::311f) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:06:00	Kyv	unironically read the fecking manuals
2021-06-22 15:06:15	tusko	man man
2021-06-22 15:06:24	-->	rbh (~rbh@2405:201:6:a01a:6188:ba0e:6f5e:885e) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:06:34	fifihyperbola	ok cheers
2021-06-22 15:06:55	byte4byte	fifihyperbola, pm jim he will teach you pyton
2021-06-22 15:06:59	byte4byte	*python
2021-06-22 15:07:00	neshpion	https://linuxjourney.com/
2021-06-22 15:07:00	fifihyperbola	ook :)
2021-06-22 15:07:07	fifihyperbola	tnx for link neshpion
2021-06-22 15:07:22	fifihyperbola	oh i can't access this website cloudfare blocks it
2021-06-22 15:07:36	neshpion	rip
2021-06-22 15:07:52	neshpion	try a VPN
2021-06-22 15:07:54	neshpion	maybe
2021-06-22 15:08:02	fifihyperbola	yeah it won't let me in cuz i use tor in my browser
2021-06-22 15:08:04	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:08:11	sed	fifihyperbola what worked for me was https://www.vtc.com/products/Unix-Shell-Fundamentals-tutorials.htm
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2021-06-22 15:09:27	fifihyperbola	ok tnx
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2021-06-22 15:09:52	autopsy	akik, did you try that GPU tester?
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2021-06-22 15:10:28	sed	or if you like books the linux command line is good too
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2021-06-22 15:11:00	jim	fifihyperbola. about "what can i do on linux???", what do you want to do?
2021-06-22 15:11:03	<--	arash (~arash@5.124.30.120) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:11:22	Sayona	jim, :* sorry I was awa
2021-06-22 15:11:25	Sayona	away*
2021-06-22 15:11:33	fifihyperbola	something creative and fun
2021-06-22 15:11:43	jim	Sayona, you can be away if you want :)
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2021-06-22 15:12:58	ananke	fifihyperbola: Linux is merely an operating system, like windows or mac os. Don't expect it to be a thrill ride, by itself none of them do much
2021-06-22 15:13:10	sed	open source too which makes it even better
2021-06-22 15:13:11	fifihyperbola	ok ;P
2021-06-22 15:13:13	jim	fifihyperbola, creative, hmm. do you know any programming languages? do you want to automate tasks you do pretty often? (oh, and, do you have linux installed now?)
2021-06-22 15:13:22	-->	jkwnki (~jkwnki@p4fedbaf0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:13:22	neshpion	like what? art? Krita. 3D art? Blender. games? Godot. music? LMMS. video? Kden Live (or Blender :D)
2021-06-22 15:13:22	Sayona	jim, :*
2021-06-22 15:13:44	fifihyperbola	yeah i do of course all i can do is install arch linux, run some window manager and download packages
2021-06-22 15:13:57	fifihyperbola	i'd love to run a website like a blog or something
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2021-06-22 15:14:17	neshpion	nginx
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2021-06-22 15:14:32	fifihyperbola	i am using linux libre kernel
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2021-06-22 15:15:37	baldpope	#networking
2021-06-22 15:15:41	baldpope	oops
2021-06-22 15:15:57	baldpope	sorry, typo'd apparently
2021-06-22 15:15:59	jim	fifihyperbola, I don't know much about arch... how long have you been using arch or any linux?
2021-06-22 15:16:12	fendur	fifihyperbola: dude, get your idea together first, then start trying to make it happen.
2021-06-22 15:16:15	fifihyperbola	i started using linux in 2017
2021-06-22 15:16:46	Sayona	So cool, now I am 100% on linux :))
2021-06-22 15:16:59	fifihyperbola	know any nice websites where i can read some interesting stuff about linux??
2021-06-22 15:17:10	kodah	fifihyperbola: running a desktop and a server are very different paradigms of linux. i would direct your focus on one at a time, because you're going to learn some competing standards and practices in each.
2021-06-22 15:17:37	msiism	fifihyperbola: Sure, e.g., https://man7.org/.
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2021-06-22 15:17:49	Sayona	Hi, what software do you guys have installed on linux? (as desktop).
2021-06-22 15:18:20	msiism	fifihyperbola: Or: https://lwn.net/.
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2021-06-22 15:21:09	msiism	Sayona: Do you want a full list?
2021-06-22 15:21:16	fendur	Sayona: xeyes at a minimum
2021-06-22 15:21:25	msiism	xeyes is bloat!
2021-06-22 15:21:33	Sayona	msiism, not really the most used
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2021-06-22 15:21:50	Sayona	fendur, :D
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2021-06-22 15:22:16	jim	I used to like to maximize xeyes
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2021-06-22 15:22:25	Sayona	:D
2021-06-22 15:22:45	msiism	Sayona: Okay, that's be like urxvt, nano, vlc, mpv, hexchat. What else?
2021-06-22 15:23:00	Sayona	vim?
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2021-06-22 15:23:06	msiism	I mean, usually, you install software for a certain purpose.
2021-06-22 15:23:10	fendur	msiism: you didn't include xeyes
2021-06-22 15:23:20	msiism	I don't have it installed.
2021-06-22 15:23:29	msiism	Oh, I do have it…
2021-06-22 15:23:33	fendur	fair point.
2021-06-22 15:23:35	Sayona	:)
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2021-06-22 15:24:10	msiism	And, I mean, usually, that purpose for installing a certain piece of software is not in itself installing software, right?
2021-06-22 15:24:12	Sayona	tmux?
2021-06-22 15:24:27	msiism	I just use piles of urxvt.
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2021-06-22 15:24:45	Kyv	st, newsboat, irssi, mpd + mpc, picard, nicotine+, librewolf, elinks, vim, mpv, ranger + w3m, sxiv
2021-06-22 15:24:45	<--	Voidn00b (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:24:52	jim	yeah I got tmux installed... there are tmux cheat sheets around somewhere
2021-06-22 15:25:07	-->	Voidn00b (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:25:13	msiism	Kyv: Minimalist…
2021-06-22 15:25:15	msiism	:)
2021-06-22 15:25:26	Sayona	irssi is cool but is hard for chating.
2021-06-22 15:25:37	Sayona	msiism, intresting
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2021-06-22 15:26:23	msiism	Also, I use Openbox as my window manager. It's good enough. And because it's practically dead, that won't really change either.
2021-06-22 15:26:25	Kyv	it can take some getting used to
2021-06-22 15:27:03	-->	eho (~yarra@176.88.88.197) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:27:12	msiism	Kyv: What's the merit in running librewolf?
2021-06-22 15:27:17	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:27:31	 *	themachine prefers weechat over irssi
2021-06-22 15:27:35	 *	CommunistWolf perks ears
2021-06-22 15:27:43	themachine	lol
2021-06-22 15:27:53	-->	jmcantrell (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:27:59	Kyv	it is a hardened firefox, which gets vetted in advance so I dont have to go and check which telemetry and about:config settings Mozilla reverted each time I update.
2021-06-22 15:28:00	 *	omero jumps into the nearest patch of cacti
2021-06-22 15:28:34	jim	fifihyperbola, still here?
2021-06-22 15:28:37	-->	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 15:28:53	msiism	Kyv: Still seems to be leaking a bit, though: https://unixsheikh.com/articles/choose-your-browser-carefully.html#librewolf
2021-06-22 15:28:59	msiism	Though that might be slightly out of date.
2021-06-22 15:29:00	<--	Voidn00b (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:29:02	Kyv	that is somewhat dated
2021-06-22 15:29:08	neshpion	i3 i3blocks st dmenu picom nvim tmux weechat mpv ranger sxiv brave tor gimp lmms blender kdenlive godot
2021-06-22 15:29:18	jim	I'm gonna wander to the store for awhile...
2021-06-22 15:29:18	msiism	Kyv: So, things have changed for the better?
2021-06-22 15:29:33	neshpion	audacity
2021-06-22 15:29:35	neshpion	uhhhh
2021-06-22 15:29:46	-->	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:29:54	<--	yarra (~yarra@176.88.95.157) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:30:04	Kyv	msiism: I did cursory tests with tcpdump on https port, I didnt see anything phoning home on launch as you normally would with Firefox.
2021-06-22 15:30:05	neshpion	and about 1200 other things
2021-06-22 15:30:15	-->	crackerjack (~crackerja@35.139.148.204) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:30:18	Kyv	it could have been more thorough
2021-06-22 15:30:22	Kyv	but so far I like it
2021-06-22 15:30:29	msiism	I see.
2021-06-22 15:30:39	msiism	What's that multi-track audio recorder for the command-line again?
2021-06-22 15:30:43	Kyv	sox
2021-06-22 15:31:01	msiism	I think I don't mean sox.
2021-06-22 15:31:02	<--	oxum (~oxum@106.203.210.162) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-22 15:31:26	msiism	It's, like, supposed to be very useful for blind people.
2021-06-22 15:31:39	msiism	I treid it once. Worked pretty well, even though I'm not blind.
2021-06-22 15:31:46	Kyv	hm
2021-06-22 15:31:49	msiism	s/treid/tried
2021-06-22 15:32:03	<--	cdown (~cdown@163.114.131.1) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:32:25	Kyv	I am not sure
2021-06-22 15:32:34	Kyv	what about a command line video editor called blind?
2021-06-22 15:32:36	Kyv	will that do?
2021-06-22 15:32:42	Sayona	Guys, anyone store password in files encrypted with gpg? and use the file to connect over ssh?
2021-06-22 15:32:45	Kyv	:|
2021-06-22 15:33:02	themachine	Sayona: Nope, I use keepassxc
2021-06-22 15:33:17	themachine	and for ssh just use keys
2021-06-22 15:33:33	neshpion	i use password-store
2021-06-22 15:33:45	Sayona	themachine, yes but "keepassxc" , you need to copy/paste it
2021-06-22 15:33:50	<--	crackerjack (~crackerja@35.139.148.204) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-22 15:34:00	themachine	Sayona: depends on what you are doing
2021-06-22 15:34:17	themachine	You can run keepassxc as an ssh agent
2021-06-22 15:34:24	-->	ruben (~ruben@85.161-176-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:34:29	Sayona	hmz
2021-06-22 15:34:33	themachine	if we are still talking about ssh
2021-06-22 15:34:44	themachine	but if we are, you should just use ssh keys and not passwords
2021-06-22 15:34:51	-->	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:35:10	Kyv	That is really the first thing that should be done is switching to public key auth
2021-06-22 15:35:22	Kyv	and turning off passwords
2021-06-22 15:35:27	-->	cdown (~cdown@163.114.131.1) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:35:51	Kyv	I do use pass but I dont use this with ssh
2021-06-22 15:35:55	themachine	keepassxc also supports a hotkey for auto-type
2021-06-22 15:36:08	<--	BUSY (~BUSY@user/busy) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:36:17	Kyv	pass has a small dmenu script called passmenu that is pretty much mandatory
2021-06-22 15:36:22	Kyv	for ease of retrieval
2021-06-22 15:36:29	<--	ausserz (~ausserz@user/ausserz) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:36:32	Sayona	for some servers I need password
2021-06-22 15:36:49	neshpion	Kyv: lol i went and wrote one myself, i had no idea
2021-06-22 15:36:57	Sayona	themachine, intresting
2021-06-22 15:37:00	<--	uoj6wz6qoswb (~gNNodRrI~@user/spareproject) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:37:05	Kyv	neshpion: you should have a look at it and compare
2021-06-22 15:37:15	Kyv	it is pretty easy to find
2021-06-22 15:37:16	<--	jmcantrell (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-22 15:37:54	ananke	Sayona: you should really consider setting up keys for those servers
2021-06-22 15:38:00	themachine	^
2021-06-22 15:38:08	-->	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e94:c247::688b:de0a) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:38:08	--	demon is now known as clown
2021-06-22 15:38:12	Sayona	I will try :)
2021-06-22 15:38:32	<--	lautre[m] (~lautremat@2001:470:69fc:105::311f) has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
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2021-06-22 15:39:05	neshpion	Kyv: i think mine is super simple, it's basically a one-liner: https://termbin.com/309g
2021-06-22 15:39:12	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 15:40:45	Codaraxis	treefrob, Not so much to quote, but to style as code/in monospaced font. ```<code>``` works on both WhatsApp and Discord, so it's become a reflex. It's only when it fails to do anything that I remember it's not ubiquitous.
2021-06-22 15:41:21	Kyv	neshpion: https://git.zx2c4.com/password-store/tree/contrib/dmenu/passmenu
2021-06-22 15:41:27	<--	sgen (~sgen@142.186.76.30) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-22 15:42:19	neshpion	Codaraxis: on discord i put inline expressions in single backticks, i don't know about whatsapp
2021-06-22 15:42:21	-->	Guest42_ (~textual@192.146.154.3) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 15:42:42	Codaraxis	Yeah. Single backticks also works on Discord, but doesn't on WhatsApp
2021-06-22 15:42:57	msiism	Isn't this all markdown syntax?
2021-06-22 15:43:05	neshpion	basically
2021-06-22 15:43:05	<--	Wafficus (~Wafficus@45.62.181.76) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-22 15:43:06	Kyv	a few extra conveniences
2021-06-22 15:43:11	Kyv	but does rely on xdotool
2021-06-22 15:43:16	Kyv	which should be installed anyway, really
2021-06-22 15:43:19	-->	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.1.58) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 15:43:58	Codaraxis	Unfortunately, I can't get anyone at work to adopt anything other than Discord or WhatsApp, so I end up using them a lot and have certain reflexes now. Usually, I self-correct after I use one and it fails/looks silly.
2021-06-22 15:44:14	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:44:42	Kyv	oh
2021-06-22 15:44:49	-->	frmus (~frmus@user/frmus) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:44:55	Kyv	by the way, here
2021-06-22 15:45:05	Kyv	doll up your desktop
2021-06-22 15:45:08	Kyv	https://imgur.com/a/FnN7WYq
2021-06-22 15:45:20	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.2.179) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:45:23	msiism	The tricky thing about password managers is that they should ideally take care of removing the password form the clipboard (and from memory, actually) when it has been pasted.
2021-06-22 15:45:53	Lartza	I mean mine does, on Windows at least :P
2021-06-22 15:46:14	Lartza	I haven't thought about android or linux really...
2021-06-22 15:46:14	CommunistWolf	putting it in the clipboard in the first place isn't safe, but we all do it anyway
2021-06-22 15:46:27	<--	tscopp (~tms@c-76-115-26-235.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:46:31	Lartza	I try not to do it, autotype just doesn't always work
2021-06-22 15:46:42	CommunistWolf	`pass` claims to clear the clipboard, I don't know if it actually does
2021-06-22 15:46:43	Kyv	pass has a timeout which is configurable
2021-06-22 15:46:46	Kyv	defaults to 45 seconds
2021-06-22 15:46:49	<--	Guest42_ (~textual@192.146.154.3) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:46:49	CommunistWolf	^5
2021-06-22 15:47:03	CommunistWolf	I use it on a remote machine with `ssh -X`, kinda magic :D
2021-06-22 15:47:06	Father_Jack	msiism: Bitwarden can remove the password from the clipboard in a  pre-set time limit, in my case 10 seconds.
2021-06-22 15:47:10	ananke	single entry clipboard? what's this, 1965?
2021-06-22 15:47:23	Lartza	I don't want passwords in my clipboard so I don't store a history :S
2021-06-22 15:47:27	-->	Ringtailed-Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:80be:b6c2:1131:1a96) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:47:40	msiism	Father_Jack: Isn't Bitwarden "cloud-based"?
2021-06-22 15:47:46	Lartza	It's web-based yes
2021-06-22 15:48:02	Father_Jack	yes and no, you can self-host it.
2021-06-22 15:48:08	Lartza	But I guess from the web you can populate the clipboard so
2021-06-22 15:48:16	<--	Ringtailed_Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:80be:b6c2:1131:1a96) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:48:18	Lartza	I mean you can from one of those "copy" buttons on various sites
2021-06-22 15:48:19	<--	sed (~sed@pool-100-7-53-231.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-22 15:48:32	msiism	Well, I use KeePassXC, currently. It's quite slow, though.
2021-06-22 15:48:44	-->	polardroid (~polardroi@45.91.23.62) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:48:49	msiism	Compared to what I used before, at least.
2021-06-22 15:49:16	-->	Protocol2 (~Protocol2@145-133-103-182.fixed.kpn.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:49:31	Revelator	bitwarden (selfhosted) works fine for me well strictly speaking its the bitwarden_rs version.
2021-06-22 15:49:44	<--	ruben (~ruben@85.161-176-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:49:47	Lartza	Hax!
2021-06-22 15:49:53	Father_Jack	lol
2021-06-22 15:50:01	<--	Protocol2 (~Protocol2@145-133-103-182.fixed.kpn.net) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-22 15:50:03	Lartza	(It unlocks paid features)
2021-06-22 15:50:08	rob`	Revelator: did you figure out how to decouple it from docker, or did you just go with it?
2021-06-22 15:50:26	Lartza	Also apparently called "vaultwarden" now
2021-06-22 15:50:41	 *	themachine keeps his keepass db synced via his Seafile instance
2021-06-22 15:50:50	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.1.58) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:51:30	rob`	ah, vaultwarden, question retracted. :)
2021-06-22 15:51:45	Revelator	rob`: Tried both, ended up going the docker route when I had to reinstall though was simply easier that way. I proxy through a swag container.
2021-06-22 15:51:47	-->	PaigeW13 (~Riley@69.132.244.122) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:51:52	 *	rob` nods
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2021-06-22 15:52:10	akik	autopsy: no, i didn't go on as there's a problem with the driver or device, or anything between. i'll try ubuntu with an older driver tomorrow
2021-06-22 15:52:23	-->	Barones (~Barones@2804:48dc:8500:0:4969:1672:1a6d:93c2) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:52:34	rob`	I have the paid bitwarden account, it's been pretty great, but I would much prefer to self-host.
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2021-06-22 15:53:48	neshpion	i just keep my passwords on a remote git repo :u
2021-06-22 15:53:54	<--	greenx (~greenx@pool-173-70-159-250.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-22 15:53:55	-->	DaNeenjah (~jake@adsl-74-230-9-207.hsv.bellsouth.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:54:07	rob`	#opensource
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2021-06-22 15:54:44	msiism	Why would you put your passwords on the net in the frist place?
2021-06-22 15:55:00	autopsy	akik, oh ok.
2021-06-22 15:55:01	Lartza	So I can use them on my phone too
2021-06-22 15:55:02	rob`	convenience is a hell of a drug
2021-06-22 15:55:03	neshpion	but they're encrypted :DDD
2021-06-22 15:55:15	<--	amahl (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:55:25	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:55:29	msiism	This is a bit insane, if you ask me.
2021-06-22 15:55:36	<--	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:56:03	Father_Jack	At least it's sage
2021-06-22 15:56:05	rob`	we all make tradeoffs.
2021-06-22 15:56:07	Father_Jack	*safe
2021-06-22 15:56:21	johnnyapol	i just use firefox lockwise as the vast majority of my password entry is done on the web. everything else is managed via gnome-keyring, ssh keys, or memory.
2021-06-22 15:56:27	johnnyapol	works pretty well and the mobile app is nice
2021-06-22 15:56:33	rob`	Sometimes putting all your eggs in one basket is fine, if you watch the hell out of that basket.
2021-06-22 15:57:24	msiism	What if that basket breaks down from too many eggs?
2021-06-22 15:57:32	-->	ballerburg9005 (~ich@dslb-002-202-018-180.002.202.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:57:37	Kel	Team "I have too much going on and 1password seems good enough for now"
2021-06-22 15:57:57	<--	ml9l (~arisen@dynamic-089-012-149-186.89.12.pool.telefonica.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 15:58:24	-->	uoj6wz6qoswb (~qAiDtRcC~@user/spareproject) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 15:58:28	<--	wovixo (~wovixo@128.104.205.49) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-22 15:58:33	msiism	Or, what if the egg warden drops an egg?
2021-06-22 15:58:39	<--	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has left #linux (Leaving)
2021-06-22 15:58:41	msiism	Or drops dead?
2021-06-22 15:58:44	Kel	omlette!
2021-06-22 15:58:47	msiism	:)
2021-06-22 15:59:06	<--	Tom (~Tom@82-64-144-132.subs.proxad.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 15:59:26	rob`	msiism: Those are pretty well-understood failure cases, so you make contingencies. :)
2021-06-22 15:59:46	<--	randomuser (~randomuse@91.187.59.126) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-22 16:00:15	Kel	I also realize a service with a sort of "break glass" feature is needed. If something happens to me, my poor wife is never going to be able to untangle the web of logins and shit that I've woven for the past 30 years... yikes.
2021-06-22 16:00:29	<--	TechTest (uid283215@id-283215.tooting.irccloud.com) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-22 16:00:37	themachine	Kel: deadman switch
2021-06-22 16:00:47	themachine	I need to set one up myself
2021-06-22 16:01:02	Father_Jack	With Bitwarden and I believe lastpass you can assign a person who can access your account in case of daeth
2021-06-22 16:01:06	Father_Jack	*death
2021-06-22 16:01:16	rob`	Kel: Yeah, really, that's one reason I switched to a password database. If I kick it, our fire safe has my emergency TOTP codes for Bitwarden and the login password on a postit, plus an export of the database on a hard drive.
2021-06-22 16:01:37	rob`	Also, a "don't panic <3 <3 <3 you got this" note
2021-06-22 16:01:42	<--	godadmin (~godadmin@79.124.0.2) has left #linux (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-06-22 16:01:47	Kel	I think 1P has that too.
2021-06-22 16:02:03	Father_Jack	Yeah, I'm sure most password managers have that
2021-06-22 16:03:17	Kel	Now the network map is another matter xD Some poor Shaw tech is going to have to untangle my shit just to get the modem/router combo back to defaults, hehe.
2021-06-22 16:03:19	<--	shmalu (~shmalu@176.107.32.45) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:03:29	clown	Does anyone know any gnome wouldn't recognize the .desktop file extension
2021-06-22 16:03:29	-->	jdmark (~jdmark@67.8.137.130) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:03:36	xythrez	Might as well include a bottle of vodka in there for whoever takes over :)
2021-06-22 16:03:37	rob`	Kel: A little payback sounds nice.
2021-06-22 16:03:56	-->	Helmholtz (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:04:07	<--	fikran (~fikran@pool-108-31-11-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:04:10	rob`	Kel: Pity the tech has to be the target of vengeance deserved by the company writ large. :)
2021-06-22 16:04:13	Father_Jack	tbh when I die I don't think I want anyone getting into my password manager
2021-06-22 16:04:24	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:04:27	Helmholtz	I no longer see GRUB menu but see the laptop splash screen in its place instead .Is it possible that a simple `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` may mess up GRUB and boot options?  I'm on a dual boot with win10. I haven't started win 10 in months so that did not mess it up.   Here are my configs:  https://dpaste.com/EXPL8Z6NW
2021-06-22 16:04:44	-->	sed (~sed@pool-100-7-53-231.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:04:49	rob`	Father_Jack: Your next of kin will still need bank credentials, brokerages, pension account info, blah blah. At least make sure you have that recorded.
2021-06-22 16:04:59	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@117.sub-97-43-192.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:05:13	autopsy	You guys are all off topic.
2021-06-22 16:05:21	autopsy	To hell with you!!!
2021-06-22 16:05:38	-->	fikran (~fikran@pool-108-31-11-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:05:41	themachine	whoopsie
2021-06-22 16:05:58	Father_Jack	Afaik the only thing I have recorded in my Password manager is my bank card info ant not anything useful for accessing my bank account, I suppose I could change that.
2021-06-22 16:06:00	<--	zjmc_ (zjmc@user/zjmc) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:06:07	rob`	mm, "how do I use Linux to accomplish $task" seems pretty on topic
2021-06-22 16:06:15	Kel	"What is a Pi Hole? What's ProxMox?" - Not important :D
2021-06-22 16:06:23	akik	Helmholtz: if you want you can make the grub menu appear on every boot
2021-06-22 16:07:03	akik	Helmholtz: which os does the laptop boot into?
2021-06-22 16:07:04	<--	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-22 16:07:14	Kyv	Leave them some string to untangle after your passing, it's good for then. Facilitates the grieving process.
2021-06-22 16:07:27	-->	Voidn00b_ARM_PBP (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:07:32	Father_Jack	🤣
2021-06-22 16:07:43	-->	Helmholtz1 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:07:56	Father_Jack	They want access to my crap they're gonna have to find my YubiKey
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2021-06-22 16:09:10	<--	Cienisty (cloak@user/cienisty) has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-06-22 16:09:24	themachine	You've hidden your yubikey in a location. GPS cordinates will be revealed by taking specific git commits and running them through a custom cipher.
2021-06-22 16:09:32	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@117.sub-97-43-192.myvzw.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:09:57	Father_Jack	That's assuming there are GPS Coords.
2021-06-22 16:10:21	<--	msiism (~msi@user/msiism) has left #linux (Konversation vaporized.)
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2021-06-22 16:10:42	Kyv	are you saying that if I die, I should have my remains geocached?
2021-06-22 16:10:51	Father_Jack	Yes
2021-06-22 16:10:53	themachine	Yes
2021-06-22 16:10:59	Father_Jack	Make them play marco polo
2021-06-22 16:11:02	-->	VMGuy234 (~VMGuy23@user/vmguy23) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:11:03	Kyv	the funeral could be the hunt for them
2021-06-22 16:11:47	-->	zjmc_ (zjmc@user/zjmc) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 16:12:04	c705	i can't tell if this is legit or trolling
2021-06-22 16:12:47	-->	Ducki_ (~ducki@user/ducki) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:12:52	themachine	"Today we gather to honor the passing of Kyv. We can't do that though because we don't have the remains yet. Under each of your seats you'll find coordinates accurate to within 10M of the location of a part of his ashes. Everyone meet back here tomorrow at 16:00 for the real service."
2021-06-22 16:13:23	Kyv	that is the perfect scene
2021-06-22 16:13:27	<--	Ducki (~ducki@user/ducki) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:13:32	DLange	"and if you fail, just bring some BBQ ash. Nobody will notice anyways..."
2021-06-22 16:14:14	themachine	DLange: Jokes on them. Each cache has the location of the new service. That way you know who really cared about Kyv.
2021-06-22 16:14:18	<--	Andalu30 (~andalu30@85.137.21.37.dyn.user.ono.com) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-22 16:14:26	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-22 16:14:57	DLange	if you think about this more, themachine ... you'll have a business to found
2021-06-22 16:15:06	<--	Haxxa (~Haxxa@122.199.47.41) has quit (Quit: Haxxa flies away.)
2021-06-22 16:15:09	DLange	I'm sure Elon would buy ;-)
2021-06-22 16:15:11	themachine	heh
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2021-06-22 16:15:30	themachine	it's not an awful idea but I think hiding human remains is frowned upon
2021-06-22 16:15:34	themachine	even if it's just ash
2021-06-22 16:16:05	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 16:17:54	Kyv	the idea is to hide your own remains
2021-06-22 16:17:57	-->	jupart (~coolp_jim@63.142.130.66) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:18:04	Kyv	I think that is still socially acceptable
2021-06-22 16:18:16	<--	Konichiwa (~Konichiwa@098-127-101-005.biz.spectrum.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:18:19	--	Mode #linux [-o denny] by ChanServ
2021-06-22 16:18:25	--	Mode #linux [-o njan] by ChanServ
2021-06-22 16:18:25	themachine	socially sure, legally we're walking in some serious gray area
2021-06-22 16:18:27	Kyv	but I dont have that level of trust, the moment they pass those communal grills in the park
2021-06-22 16:18:30	themachine	might not even be gray
2021-06-22 16:18:32	Kyv	someones bringing back BBQ ash
2021-06-22 16:18:37	themachine	ha
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2021-06-22 16:21:25	DLange	"Q: how did 500 mourners end up here with 100 people invited ... ?"
2021-06-22 16:21:37	<--	siika__ (~siika@139.226.50.41) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:21:38	<--	ballerburg9005 (~ich@dslb-002-202-018-180.002.202.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:21:41	DLange	"A: free food and communal grills around the corner"
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2021-06-22 16:22:13	autopsy	Tampering with a body is a class 2 felony.
2021-06-22 16:22:24	-->	Judabuda (~ok@user/judabuda) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 16:23:14	-->	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:23:19	blackgatonegro	Hey
2021-06-22 16:23:41	autopsy	Hi gais.
2021-06-22 16:24:01	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
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2021-06-22 16:24:16	blackgatonegro	Just read a really clueless review of a game, it was kind of hilarious.
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2021-06-22 16:25:33	autopsy	What did it say?
2021-06-22 16:25:46	<--	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has left #linux (Leaving to take a nap)
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2021-06-22 16:28:07	eqw	I want to place some liveCD.iso to the /boot partition of my remote system so some unskilled person could help in recovering system from console, or maybe it would be great to enable ssh-access by grub boot parameters. Any suggestions of such a live CD ?
2021-06-22 16:28:09	blackgatonegro	autopsy basically despite playing the remake of legend of mana using a guide the reviewer didn't know that A) You can continue the game after you beat the final Boss on a New Game Plus B) Doing so allows you to select harder difficulty settings and C) Any Quests you missed
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2021-06-22 16:28:42	Kyv	video game journalism is really circlin the drain
2021-06-22 16:28:46	Kyv	its a crime
2021-06-22 16:28:48	blackgatonegro	Before can be done in said new game plus.
2021-06-22 16:29:05	akik	eqw: use the same distro version iso than what you have installed
2021-06-22 16:29:31	blackgatonegro	Yeah it was a case of not only not doing the research but not even checking if you can continue the game after the final boss.
2021-06-22 16:30:01	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:30:04	akik	eqw: or knoppix or systemrescue if the distro doesn't matter
2021-06-22 16:30:15	themachine	Kyv: I feel like that statement is applicable to most journalism at this point
2021-06-22 16:30:21	<--	glouniche (~glouniche@92.223.89.168) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-22 16:30:27	blackgatonegro	I found you can do that without a guide, I just played the PS1 version a lot.
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2021-06-22 16:31:45	HumbleGuy	Hey, i wanted to be as economic as possible so i installed a WM and disabled the login manager, now when i boot up, the system occupies 110MB of RAM, can i go even lower in ram usage?
2021-06-22 16:31:48	-->	blah1367[m] (~blah1367m@2001:470:69fc:105::126d) has joined #linux
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2021-06-22 16:32:26	blackgatonegro	Still no reason to get the remake since they didn't fix any of the problems with the original, just better sounds and graphics. Or maybe they did fix some stuff but would have to read s review of someone who 100% the game in hard mode.
2021-06-22 16:32:38	themachine	HumbleGuy: run gentoo?
2021-06-22 16:32:48	-->	xet7 (~xet7@85-156-127-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:32:51	HumbleGuy	themachine, alrady running it
2021-06-22 16:32:55	HumbleGuy	already
2021-06-22 16:33:02	Lartza	Don't run a WM
2021-06-22 16:33:02	themachine	disable all services you don't need running?
2021-06-22 16:33:08	ncb	don't use systemd
2021-06-22 16:33:09	Kyv	HumbleGuy: disable any services or daemons that dont use, minimize startup programs, switch out bloated software for lighter alternatives.
2021-06-22 16:33:41	HumbleGuy	where do i get the least of services at startup?
2021-06-22 16:33:48	ananke	HumbleGuy: uhmm, first take a look at what occupies said 110MB of RAM
2021-06-22 16:33:52	HumbleGuy	list*
2021-06-22 16:34:00	themachine	lol yeah that'd be a good point ananke
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2021-06-22 16:34:22	themachine	also, maybe accept that 110M is pretty "economical" because that is almost nothing
2021-06-22 16:34:23	ananke	'how do I make my backpack lighter? what should I take out?' well, gee, what's in it?
2021-06-22 16:34:48	Lartza	Pretty happy my system is using only 7,4GB at the moment ;)
2021-06-22 16:35:07	HumbleGuy	ram?
2021-06-22 16:35:11	Lartza	Yup
2021-06-22 16:35:13	 *	themachine is sitting at 1.85G
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2021-06-22 16:35:18	themachine	most of that is firefox and thunderbird
2021-06-22 16:36:02	Kyv	ananke: from my perspective, if I dont know whats in it, thats a good indicator itself that I dont need whats in it
2021-06-22 16:36:10	HumbleGuy	themachine, how do i do that thing you just did? $ is sitting at $
2021-06-22 16:36:18	themachine	HumbleGuy: /me
2021-06-22 16:36:20	HumbleGuy	GB
2021-06-22 16:36:20	Kyv	but thats subject to change depending on the person
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2021-06-22 16:36:41	 *	HumbleGuy sitting
2021-06-22 16:36:46	-->	gothicserpent (~gothicser@static-198-54-129-77.cust.tzulo.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:36:46	HumbleGuy	lol
2021-06-22 16:36:58	 *	HumbleGuy jumps
2021-06-22 16:37:18	Lartza	From my perspective, empty backpack space is wasted backpack space ;P
2021-06-22 16:37:21	themachine	how much total ram does your system have HumbleGuy?
2021-06-22 16:37:41	ananke	Kyv: only if operating systems worked like backpacks. they're closer to cars: taking out random things will often lead to catastrophic issues
2021-06-22 16:37:42	Kyv	Lartza: you never know when you'll need something to stuff a massive, stinking browser into
2021-06-22 16:37:44	HumbleGuy	themachine, 4, but really 3,64
2021-06-22 16:38:26	Lartza	Kyv, I mean that's... actually very true!
2021-06-22 16:38:28	themachine	i feel like 110M idle is pretty good then...
2021-06-22 16:38:42	Lartza	Yeah I'd be happy idling at 1GB honestly
2021-06-22 16:38:46	HumbleGuy	yeah..
2021-06-22 16:39:07	Lartza	No reason to inconvenience yourself unless you just want to try to make your system light temporarily for giggles
2021-06-22 16:39:14	themachine	^
2021-06-22 16:39:22	HumbleGuy	ok bye, hexchat is occuping 24MB at the moment, gotta save that ram
2021-06-22 16:39:24	themachine	Only "lighten the load" if there is too much to carry
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2021-06-22 16:39:30	themachine	...
2021-06-22 16:39:49	gry	Lartza: what do you fill the empty backpack space with ?
2021-06-22 16:39:56	themachine	gry: bricks
2021-06-22 16:40:05	gry	themachine: not water?
2021-06-22 16:40:08	Lartza	Disk caching I think... lol
2021-06-22 16:40:17	themachine	nah, bricks are way better than water
2021-06-22 16:40:32	<--	delta23 (~delta23@user/delta23) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-22 16:40:39	Lartza	I'm currently on Windows so 7,4GB isn't a true number of what the apps use
2021-06-22 16:40:47	themachine	I should configure my system to more aggressively cache files
2021-06-22 16:41:03	-->	the_emperor (~the_emper@103.60.172.10) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:41:03	Lartza	Like Firefox is sitting at 1,2GB, no way the rest is adding up to 7,7
2021-06-22 16:41:39	Lartza	Not an uncommon thing on Linux either ;P
2021-06-22 16:41:52	-->	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:42:20	Kyv	There should be a show akin to 'Hoarders' for this
2021-06-22 16:42:45	themachine	but who has the most unused ram?
2021-06-22 16:42:54	-->	ax56234 (~NickServ@user/ax562) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:43:01	-->	qlixed (~qlixed@181.45.80.239) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:43:01	Kyv	"My children have not visited me in 6 years, they say there are too many icons on my desktop and they can't have friends over like a normal kid."
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2021-06-22 16:44:05	Kyv	get a professional over there to basically say everything on the computer is trash and systematically remove it
2021-06-22 16:44:12	<--	the_emperor (~the_emper@103.60.172.10) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-22 16:44:12	themachine	NO
2021-06-22 16:44:15	Kyv	while simultaneously dealing with the emotional attachment the user has developed
2021-06-22 16:44:18	themachine	lol
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2021-06-22 16:44:56	neshpion	"put my loli jpgs in a folder? DO YOU WANT ME TO DIE?"
2021-06-22 16:45:05	Lartza	"I don't remember what r42ssv4 is and it's a 16-bit program so I can't run it but... I must have gotten it for SOME reason!"
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2021-06-22 16:46:08	themachine	>On today's episode of Data Hoarders
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2021-06-22 16:48:10	blackgatonegro	There are at least 3 bare bone linuxes that still get updated
2021-06-22 16:48:21	blackgatonegro	If you really want that.
2021-06-22 16:48:33	<--	sumthing1980 (~sumthing1@94.54.64.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:49:39	Sez	what is a barebone linux?
2021-06-22 16:49:49	themachine	a kernel
2021-06-22 16:49:53	themachine	:)
2021-06-22 16:49:59	knocktwice	kernel + busybox :)
2021-06-22 16:50:26	blackgatonegro	Is a kernel plus the basics
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2021-06-22 16:50:45	blackgatonegro	gui may count or not as basics
2021-06-22 16:50:51	Sez	now what is it the kernel alone or + modules + busybox + basics?
2021-06-22 16:50:55	themachine	gui? never heard of her.
2021-06-22 16:51:04	<--	danielrparks (~quassel@2600:1700:3f7b:20f:b51d:a672:e12b:5e53) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 16:51:14	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 16:51:23	Sez	gui must be the friend of some feline food ;)
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2021-06-22 16:51:28	blackgatonegro	GUI Graphic User Interface
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2021-06-22 16:51:48	themachine	Sez: depends on how you define barebones but really just a kernel isn't exactly usable
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2021-06-22 16:51:53	Sez	blackgatonegro: we are just trolling you ;)
2021-06-22 16:52:03	blackgatonegro	I know
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2021-06-22 16:53:21	Sez	themachine: well actually i would love to see at least one HURDle taken at least ;) but yeah you could be right...
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2021-06-22 16:55:02	themachine	heh
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2021-06-22 16:56:31	blackgatonegro	Tiny Core Linux maybe?
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2021-06-22 16:56:52	blackgatonegro	It not as pretty as puppy linux but it works
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2021-06-22 16:59:50	DPA	I've made a "distribution" that's even smaller than just kernel & busybox: https://gist.github.com/Daniel-Abrecht/b745fab790fc6354ce7267e58e91d579
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2021-06-22 17:03:37	blackgatonegro	DPA there is one that's just kernel and the minimum to run a server
2021-06-22 17:03:43	kfrench	DPA: You don't need all of those disk drivers if you aren't going to do anything but print a string.
2021-06-22 17:03:50	blackgatonegro	Can't remember the name atm
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2021-06-22 17:03:55	kfrench	DPA: You can also just build that right into the kernel
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2021-06-22 17:05:48	DPA	I guess I could if I put it in an initramfs... It's been a few years since I wrote that.
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2021-06-22 17:25:12	VMGuy234	Is there a simple, instant-boot boot manager I can use on my Legacy BIOS system?
2021-06-22 17:25:28	gry	like grub?
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2021-06-22 17:26:11	VMGuy234	grub but its instant boot to arch and it doesnt max out my cpu fan
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2021-06-22 17:26:40	themachine	well you can set the grub timeout to 0
2021-06-22 17:26:50	themachine	my system just skips right past any grub prompt
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2021-06-22 17:28:36	VMGuy234	how do i do that
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2021-06-22 17:30:37	akik	VMGuy234: open the grub config file possibly /etc/default/grub and edit it changing the timeout and hidden values
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2021-06-22 17:31:11	akik	VMGuy234: after that run a command to update the main config file
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2021-06-22 17:32:04	VMGuy234	oh no
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2021-06-22 17:32:38	VMGuy234	it opened in libreoffice on a pc with an Intel Atom n455 and 1gb ram
2021-06-22 17:33:02	themachine	ah yes, libreoffice, the best default text editor
2021-06-22 17:33:13	akik	save in rtf format
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2021-06-22 17:33:28	VMGuy234	i havent got mousepad or anything
2021-06-22 17:34:13	VMGuy234	anything other than hexchat or 10 year old software is a bad idea
2021-06-22 17:34:40	akik	VMGuy234: open a terminal, run "sudo nano /etc/default/grub"
2021-06-22 17:34:58	VMGuy234	that seems like the best idea
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2021-06-22 17:36:18	VMGuy234	the fact that grub-mkconfig shows each line its printing and i can see that is probably a sign of slowness
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2021-06-22 17:36:28	VMGuy234	test reboot
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2021-06-22 17:36:32	akik	VMGuy23: no
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2021-06-22 17:36:50	akik	VMGuy23: run grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg (check the paths)
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2021-06-22 17:39:10	Kyv	as one does when installing arch
2021-06-22 17:39:30	Kyv	it should bring back a glint of memory
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2021-06-22 17:40:02	VMGuy234	after sudo grub-mkconfig after changing /etc/default/grub nothing
2021-06-22 17:40:05	VMGuy234	still 5 secs
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2021-06-22 17:40:42	VMGuy234	any idea why
2021-06-22 17:41:17	tusko	coronavirus
2021-06-22 17:41:37	VMGuy234	that wont affect my grub timeout
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2021-06-22 17:42:13	akik	VMGuy23: you need to use -o to output the content into the main configfile
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2021-06-22 17:42:49	themachine	VMGuy234: my /etc/grub/default options for this are
2021-06-22 17:43:00	themachine	GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden
2021-06-22 17:43:01	themachine	GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0
2021-06-22 17:43:06	VMGuy234	oh wait
2021-06-22 17:43:13	VMGuy234	i didnt do the hidden one
2021-06-22 17:43:42	themachine	I also have GRUB_TIMEOUT=0 but I don't think that actually matters if you are using the hidden timeout style
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2021-06-22 17:44:15	themachine	with this config it'll just boot straight to whatever the default option is in grub
2021-06-22 17:44:29	VMGuy234	grub timeout style is menu for me
2021-06-22 17:44:41	rannnn8888	how i can cheack what use this ? VmallocTotal:   34359738367 kB
2021-06-22 17:44:44	themachine	did that to an older couples netbook I installed debian on as well so that they weren't ever bothered with a grub screen that they should never touch anyway
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2021-06-22 17:46:15	VMGuy234	test reboot
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2021-06-22 17:46:37	themachine	rannnn8888: that doesn't indicate anything is in use
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2021-06-22 17:47:08	rannnn8888	themachine so this number its ok ?
2021-06-22 17:47:22	rannnn8888	i cheack now and i get here same number in all my servers
2021-06-22 17:47:41	themachine	https://access.redhat.com/solutions/406773
2021-06-22 17:48:01	-->	VMGuy234 (~VMGuy23@user/vmguy23) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 17:48:11	VMGuy234	no change
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2021-06-22 17:48:42	ayecee	rannnn8888: the exact same number?
2021-06-22 17:48:46	VMGuy234	5s
2021-06-22 17:49:05	themachine	VMGuy234: did you `update-grub` after editing?
2021-06-22 17:49:26	<--	mikail__ (~mikail@2a02:c7f:bc9c:3100:ae93:93fc:603f:ceaf) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-22 17:50:46	akik	i think he's running but he should be walking
2021-06-22 17:51:01	themachine	usually the case
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2021-06-22 17:52:02	VMGuy234	it wont change
2021-06-22 17:52:08	sysRPL	i sold this circa 1992 vintage summasketch iii digitizing tablet on ebay -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154489698268
2021-06-22 17:52:15	akik	VMGuy23: which distro are you using?
2021-06-22 17:52:24	sysRPL	what do you think the odds will be the buyer wants to return it because it doesn't work on his windows 10 computer?
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2021-06-22 17:53:14	ayecee	50/50. higher if it was cheap.
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2021-06-22 17:53:26	akik	sysRPL: it has usb? "connectivity: USB"
2021-06-22 17:53:42	sysRPL	usb in 1992? lol
2021-06-22 17:53:55	akik	sysRPL: it wasn't me who wrote the description :)
2021-06-22 17:54:00	sysRPL	no. it does not have usb
2021-06-22 17:54:04	Kyv	sysRPL: does this happen to you often?
2021-06-22 17:54:15	--	clown is now known as demon
2021-06-22 17:54:21	sysRPL	oh fuck
2021-06-22 17:54:28	 *	sysRPL slaps himself
2021-06-22 17:54:30	sysRPL	fuck me
2021-06-22 17:54:31	ayecee	let's say 90% now
2021-06-22 17:54:41	sysRPL	it says usb in the description wtf
2021-06-22 17:55:03	akik	sysRPL: you could be a top notch hardware hacker
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2021-06-22 17:55:08	sysRPL	god damn ebay auto fill in properties!
2021-06-22 17:55:36	sysRPL	i didn't think it was possible, but i hate ebay even more now
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2021-06-22 17:56:09	akik	you should blame your mouse wheel instead
2021-06-22 17:56:11	sysRPL	akik: thank you for catchign that
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2021-06-22 17:56:38	sysRPL	no, ebay fills in shit when creating a listing automatically and you have to remove it
2021-06-22 17:56:51	ayecee	mind the language please
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2021-06-22 17:59:00	sysRPL	well, i guess i'll wait for the buyer to try to file a return, and eat the shipping two ways and the $27.16 final value fee
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2021-06-22 17:59:17	akik	sysRPL: why do you think it'll be returned?
2021-06-22 17:59:22	sysRPL	ebay doesn't return fees on canceled or returned items
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2021-06-22 18:00:08	sysRPL	akik: because i am guessing based on the average ebay buyer intelligence, that the person who bought this item will not know how to use it
2021-06-22 18:00:09	Kyv	you cant be expected to proofread the listings
2021-06-22 18:00:15	Kyv	they are just stream-of-consciouness
2021-06-22 18:00:19	Kyv	you are an artiste
2021-06-22 18:00:33	akik	sysRPL: ah yes, the stupidification of users that has been going on for years
2021-06-22 18:00:36	sysRPL	Kyv: lo. i am usually pretty good about both my descriptions and photos
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2021-06-22 18:02:00	sysRPL	if it gets returned, i've just have to build a personal windows 2000 autocad system for it
2021-06-22 18:02:18	ayecee	as it didn't go for cheap, it more likely went to someone seeking specific old hardware
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2021-06-22 18:02:42	ayecee	that's good news
2021-06-22 18:03:00	sysRPL	i am sure autocad r14 would fly on a core2duo desktop with 4gb of ram
2021-06-22 18:03:04	Kyv	dont act like the intelligence deficit doesnt impart itself on the sellers' side
2021-06-22 18:03:07	goddard	anyone know where it saves its openvpn connections settings for gnome shell?
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2021-06-22 18:03:22	Kyv	"no lo-ballin', I know what I got"
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2021-06-22 18:04:12	sysRPL	Kyv: in this case there were no comparables, so i listed at $450 and said i'll take any reasonable offer
2021-06-22 18:05:03	sysRPL	no comparables as in, no one anywhere had a brand new summasketch iii with all the peripherals, documentation, and software disks still sealed
2021-06-22 18:05:39	Kyv	thats a generality, by the way, not directed to you
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2021-06-22 18:05:48	sysRPL	yeah
2021-06-22 18:05:50	sysRPL	ty for that
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2021-06-22 18:11:00	paizuri	Has anybody ever had crashes on gog linux versions of games that are made in Unity engine? I noticed that the "This is the police" game crashes while saving when I'm offline and I know that Unity tries to send data many times while playing
2021-06-22 18:12:29	Lartza	I mean Unity games are notorious for crashes on Linux afaik
2021-06-22 18:12:50	matsaman	it's not the most stable engine, regardless of OS
2021-06-22 18:13:01	Kyv	paizuri: should ask in #gamingonlinux
2021-06-22 18:13:04	Lartza	Sure but a game that works on Windows can easily have issues when built for Linux
2021-06-22 18:13:04	matsaman	plus, game devs can make whatever horrible code they like using it
2021-06-22 18:13:13	Kyv	that is pretty particular
2021-06-22 18:13:28	Lartza	It was worse in the past afaik, more modern Unity versions have gotten better with Linux support
2021-06-22 18:13:43	Lartza	So sometimes "just updating" (not really an easy task) your game's Unity version can help a lot
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2021-06-22 18:14:56	paizuri	It's actually possible for the player to update the Unity engine?
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2021-06-22 18:15:18	paizuri	I'm gonna look into this thanx!
2021-06-22 18:15:19	Lartza	No I meant the developer
2021-06-22 18:15:22	paizuri	ah
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2021-06-22 18:15:27	Lartza	It's not an easy task even for the developer
2021-06-22 18:15:33	Lartza	You can't "just" update a version number
2021-06-22 18:15:35	Lartza	And rebuild
2021-06-22 18:15:47	matsaman	one does not simply update a version number
2021-06-22 18:16:01	matsaman	I mean if your software is well written, sure you can =)
2021-06-22 18:16:15	paizuri	and, in the case of gog, there's also a whole process to approve the updated version, or so the rumors say
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2021-06-22 18:24:35	Kyv	They really dont want you deleting your account with them. Dark patterns galore and thats not cool.
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2021-06-22 18:26:13	rannnn8888	ayecee yep i try all from max_workers=100 to 300
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2021-06-22 18:27:36	Kyv	Its impossible to do from the website, you need to contact them via email.
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2021-06-22 18:28:34	Kyv	Wait for someone to respond, and when they do, it is with a list of questions pertaining to the date of signup.. name all the games you have, all sort of questions most people have probably forgotten the answer to.
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2021-06-22 18:29:08	Lartza	Irreversible and you loose purchased content, seems fine they want to be careful...
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2021-06-22 18:29:58	Kyv	Doesnt justify Amazon doing it, or any one else that practices this... including them.
2021-06-22 18:29:59	robin_	Can anyone help me configure or uninstall a kernel from a live USB environment?
2021-06-22 18:30:19	Kyv	It may be slightly easier than Amazon.
2021-06-22 18:30:32	Lartza	I mean with Amazon again you loose purchased content etc...
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2021-06-22 18:30:50	Kyv	That's my point.
2021-06-22 18:30:53	<--	brownan (~brownan@136.56.137.143) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-22 18:31:06	Lartza	And it seems Amazon seems to be easier
2021-06-22 18:31:17	Lartza	What point?
2021-06-22 18:31:29	Lartza	Since you permanently loose valuables, the procedure is too hard?
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2021-06-22 18:31:56	Kyv	The fact that you purchased content on those sites doesnt justify dark patterning. It exceeds level of precaution.
2021-06-22 18:32:15	Lartza	Amazon lets you delete your account without any support request
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2021-06-22 18:32:42	Kyv	If that is true, they haven't always.
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2021-06-22 18:34:19	robin_	I personally quit Amazon when I quit Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and Google.
2021-06-22 18:34:27	Kyv	According to this site, it is now classed as easy. Last I checked it was among the most difficult: https://justdeleteme.xyz/index.html
2021-06-22 18:34:56	Kyv	Goes without saying I am not making new accounts to periodically test account deletion policy.
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2021-06-22 18:35:45	Kyv	GOG is, rightfully, classed as hard.
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2021-06-22 18:38:38	paizuri	GOG probably needs us to sacrifive the souls of newborn puppies in order to delete our accounts
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2021-06-22 18:39:20	robin_	Wouldn't surprise me at this point lol
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2021-06-22 18:42:58	Kyv	They should do that crap during the signup process and leave the out door wide open.
2021-06-22 18:43:05	autopsy	wigums, where you smoking drugs today?
2021-06-22 18:43:16	Kyv	"Are you super duper sure you want to sign up with us? Email us and we'll talk about it."
2021-06-22 18:43:40	Kyv	There is money to be lost, after all.
2021-06-22 18:44:15	robin_	That would be heavenly. Imagine all the time wasters people would dodge.
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2021-06-22 18:44:46	Kyv	Then when I delete my account, they can sign me out of the site with the message "We have your money, what do we care? Bye, idiot!"
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2021-06-22 18:44:58	Kyv	It would honestly be better.
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2021-06-22 19:07:56	kn100	Hmn, just noticed in my pihole my machine is apparently making DNS requests for 'e.c.6.e.0.5.f.6.e.f.9.8.e.1.c.9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.e.f.ip6.arpa' - anyone got any idea as to what it is?
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2021-06-22 19:09:48	Kyv	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.arpa
2021-06-22 19:09:58	tusko	dns is a bitch
2021-06-22 19:10:09	tusko	I've had it just completely stop working
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2021-06-22 19:10:23	tusko	These days I only trust Google with my dns requests.
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2021-06-22 19:11:12	Kyv	tell em noarp
2021-06-22 19:11:16	kn100	So it's an ipv6 reverse DNS lookup?
2021-06-22 19:11:29	kn100	Interesting, today I learned that's a thing
2021-06-22 19:11:43	jamesp	Don't use Google DNS. Use Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 instead.
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2021-06-22 19:12:31	jamesp	So how is ARPANET still being used today?
2021-06-22 19:12:35	Kyv	Why is Cloudflare preferable again?
2021-06-22 19:13:13	jamesp	Cloudflare has better privacy than Google. Also, Google is bad!
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2021-06-22 19:14:54	Kyv	kn100: in your dhcp configuration there is probably a means of turning it off
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2021-06-22 19:15:50	Kyv	not really required on home networks and may result in an imperceivable increase in initialization speed
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2021-06-22 19:22:24	Kyv	though when I go to a restaurant, I usually just pick an occupied table based on whoever is up at the salad bar
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2021-06-22 19:23:08	ayecee	super efficient
2021-06-22 19:23:34	quartz	Does anyone use KDE's global menu? I'm trying to get a gloabl menu on Firefox or LibreWolf browser.
2021-06-22 19:23:37	matsaman	Kyv: 'cause salad-eaters won't fight for their tables? =P
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2021-06-22 19:23:59	matsaman	quartz: former apple fanbois? Might ask #kde for a more specific percentage of relevance
2021-06-22 19:24:04	akik	quartz: you mean the k menu?
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2021-06-22 19:24:21	akik	or f menu in fedora :)
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2021-06-22 19:25:11	quartz	matsaman: I'm not loyal to Apple. I despise the company actually. The one thing they do get right is a good user interface
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2021-06-22 19:26:17	Kyv	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/NeXTSTEP_desktop.png
2021-06-22 19:26:26	Kyv	theyre good arent they
2021-06-22 19:26:31	matsaman	the only thing they get right is alt+space as a launcher shortcut
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2021-06-22 19:28:25	akik	matsaman: if you don't like plasma, why do you reply?
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2021-06-22 19:30:17	Kyv	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmpDSBAh6RY
2021-06-22 19:30:23	Kyv	guy tries to cancel AOL account
2021-06-22 19:30:54	akik	quartz: is global menu something you add to the top panel?
2021-06-22 19:31:02	Kyv	I have committed unspeakable transgressions during the night of the Eternal September
2021-06-22 19:31:11	matsaman	akik: if you don't like replies, why do you communicate
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2021-06-22 19:31:28	akik	matsaman: you didn't add anything to his question
2021-06-22 19:31:38	akik	matsaman: well ok, warm air
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2021-06-22 19:32:55	matsaman	that's idiomatic!
2021-06-22 19:32:56	lf94	Anyone know of a program which records keys input into terminal, and the speed as well?
2021-06-22 19:33:14	lf94	I want to write a program but don't want to record a video of its output right away
2021-06-22 19:33:22	lf94	(For a demonstration video)
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2021-06-22 19:33:47	e1	Kyv, the craziest thing about that vid, imo, is that someone unironically said 'the number of comments i've gotten on my site'
2021-06-22 19:33:52	akik	i see global menu in the widgets list but i don't know how to add it to a panel
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2021-06-22 19:36:19	quartz	akik: You have to right click on the desktop and select new panel, than application menu bar
2021-06-22 19:37:03	akik	quartz: when i drag the global menu widget on the panel, it just disappears
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2021-06-22 19:37:54	akik	lol i've never needed it, i doubt i'll need it now
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2021-06-22 19:38:36	babyface	is it somehow possible to convert a drive from exfat to fat32 without data loss?
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2021-06-22 19:40:49	matsaman	babyface: very little is impossible in software, given enough resources
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2021-06-22 19:41:07	matsaman	but if you're going to convert from exfat, why not move to an FS that isn't terrible
2021-06-22 19:42:02	quartz	akik: Yes, I think that's normal. The widget doesn't actualy do anything until you've openened an application that has a menu.
2021-06-22 19:42:03	<--	WishBoy (~WishBoy@user/wishboy) has quit
2021-06-22 19:42:05	quartz	Other than firefox of course
2021-06-22 19:42:18	babyface	matsaman, the media player I'm using requires that I use fat32
2021-06-22 19:42:26	akik	quartz: firefox was the one i tested
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2021-06-22 19:42:55	akik	strange to build things that then you can't use with a very common app
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2021-06-22 19:43:25	jim	babyface, how big is it? do you have enough space to create another area large enough to hold all the files (temporarily)?
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2021-06-22 19:43:53	babyface	jim no there's not enough space for that
2021-06-22 19:43:53	quartz	akik: Yeah, firefox seems to be the exception. I really want to change browsers anyway. I've been loyal to firefox for years :(
2021-06-22 19:43:56	matsaman	babyface: ah gross, Sandisk? =)
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2021-06-22 19:44:28	Kyv	change browsers tuwhat?
2021-06-22 19:44:36	-->	bsmith093 (~quassel@64.201.235.190) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 19:44:58	akik	keep on keeping on using firefox
2021-06-22 19:45:19	quartz	Kyv: Librewolf looks very good.
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2021-06-22 19:45:22	quartz	Maybe Brave.
2021-06-22 19:45:47	quartz	akik: Why? Mozilla is saying weird stuff. Their devs even said free speach is not good anymore.
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2021-06-22 19:46:40	Lartza	Lesser of two evils *shrug*
2021-06-22 19:46:54	Lartza	Or does Google not say weird stuff
2021-06-22 19:47:13	Kyv	Except the 'lesser' of two evils is majority funded by the more of two devils.
2021-06-22 19:47:15	quartz	Lartza: Yes, true. BUt firefox was built on privacy, etc...
2021-06-22 19:47:30	quartz	Librewolf is a firefox clone with a lot of the junk stripped out of it.
2021-06-22 19:47:32	Lartza	And it's not broken my privacy
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2021-06-22 19:47:36	akik	quartz: it's the lesser of the evils
2021-06-22 19:47:59	Kyv	quartz: I use Librewolf and like it, you should not have any trouble.
2021-06-22 19:48:02	gry	quartz: how does it compare to gnu icecat
2021-06-22 19:48:47	quartz	Kyv: Are you on Manjaro?
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2021-06-22 19:48:52	quartz	gry: Never heard of it
2021-06-22 19:49:04	Kyv	No quartz but it is the AUR package.
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2021-06-22 19:49:20	Kyv	That is just in my repo
2021-06-22 19:49:53	Kyv	So in other words it is the same one you will likely be getting.
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2021-06-22 19:50:19	quartz	Kyv: Yes, but when I try to download it via pamac, it says something like it can't verify the security keys.... did you get that?
2021-06-22 19:50:31	Kyv	nope
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2021-06-22 19:50:49	quartz	Hmmmmm
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2021-06-22 19:51:29	Kyv	Does it say it is invalid/corrupted and prompt you to remove the keys?
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2021-06-22 19:52:58	quartz	Kyv: It says: "One or more PGP signatures could not be verified!"
2021-06-22 19:53:05	quartz	I'm doing it from pamac
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2021-06-22 19:53:39	quartz	So I guess it's a security risk to download librewolf lol
2021-06-22 19:53:44	quartz	Maybe I can get it from git?
2021-06-22 19:54:57	Kyv	sure
2021-06-22 19:55:09	Kyv	or get it through the AUR
2021-06-22 19:55:22	Kyv	I am not too familiar with Manjaro
2021-06-22 19:55:29	Kyv	or pamac
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2021-06-22 19:56:20	quartz	Kyv: Yeah I'm trying to get it through the AUR
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2021-06-22 19:58:02	Kyv	You have recently synced the local database?
2021-06-22 19:58:45	quartz	Kyv: Not sure what you mean.
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2021-06-22 20:00:13	Kyv	Run an update so that the local package list and such is in sync with the server
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2021-06-22 20:00:43	Kyv	akin to pacman -Syu or -Syyu
2021-06-22 20:01:20	quartz	Let me try that
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2021-06-22 20:03:14	Kyv	By getting it through the AUR alternately I mean going to Arch website, grabbing snapshot, running makepkg on it and using pacman -U to install
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2021-06-22 20:08:14	Kyv	I dont want to make assumptions about how that will turn out since as I say, I dont know much about Manjaro or peculiarities it might have.
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2021-06-22 20:09:01	VG9t3	Installing on manjaro from aur should be fine (have done with paru)
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2021-06-22 20:10:50	quartz	VG9t3: Yeah it won't let me. Says the security key can't be verified.
2021-06-22 20:10:57	 *	neshpion uses yay
2021-06-22 20:11:23	Kyv	slacker!
2021-06-22 20:11:28	neshpion	don't ask me why, though, because i don't have reasons
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2021-06-22 20:11:49	Kyv	I dont install enough AUR packages to warrant another method
2021-06-22 20:11:49	VG9t3	quartz: Are you installing librewolf or librewolf-bin?
2021-06-22 20:12:23	quartz	VG9t3: librewolf-bin
2021-06-22 20:12:45	quartz	I updated the databases via pamac
2021-06-22 20:12:52	quartz	BUt it didn't solve anything
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2021-06-22 20:13:57	quartz	Damn this is frustrating lol
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2021-06-22 20:15:08	Kyv	quartz: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
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2021-06-22 20:16:35	VG9t3	Kyv: but what if you want to update an aur package?
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2021-06-22 20:17:48	Kyv	VG9t3: I will have to cross that bridge at some point I suppose
2021-06-22 20:18:04	Kyv	the only AUR thing I have installed is mksh
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2021-06-22 20:18:36	Kyv	I dont really anticipate urgent updates
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2021-06-22 20:20:10	Kyv	And actually, mksh was only recently dropped from Arch's repos
2021-06-22 20:20:24	Kyv	with a bit of luck it might get a package for mine
2021-06-22 20:21:07	VG9t3	You never know could get a shell rce
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2021-06-22 20:21:40	Kyv	I can use Arch's community or extra repos, or I can use my own distro's, or their not-so-official repo.
2021-06-22 20:21:51	Kyv	So the AUR is not all that crucial
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2021-06-22 20:22:40	quartz	I'm trying ot update the keys (I honestly have no idea what I'm doing), and when I type "sudo pacman -Sy gnupg archlinux-keyring manjaro-keyring" it's asking me Import PGP key FC1B547C8D8172C8, "Levente Polyak <anthraxx@archlinux.org>"? [Y/n]
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2021-06-22 20:22:56	quartz	Kyv: I'm following the steps in the link you posted. THanks
2021-06-22 20:23:00	Kyv	VG9t3: anything is possible. but it is just a small, narrowly POSIX shell which is just enough of a step up from dash to be very good as an interactive
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2021-06-22 20:23:16	quartz	LIke who is Levente Polyak?
2021-06-22 20:23:37	ayecee	we just call him lev
2021-06-22 20:23:55	ayecee	jk i don't know who that is either
2021-06-22 20:24:20	quartz	lol, so why is it asking me to import a bunch of keys from this guy?
2021-06-22 20:24:47	omegatron	that's how pgp works ...
2021-06-22 20:24:51	ayecee	maybe you could look up the guy
2021-06-22 20:24:53	theproffesor	he is an arch linux dev quartz
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2021-06-22 20:25:07	VG9t3	https://archlinux.org/people/developers/ he is
2021-06-22 20:25:17	ayecee	mystery solved
2021-06-22 20:25:55	Kyv	https://github.com/anthraxx
2021-06-22 20:25:59	Kyv	here is his github
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2021-06-22 20:26:13	VG9t3	Now all you gotta figure out is if you trust him
2021-06-22 20:26:35	Kyv	cmon
2021-06-22 20:26:40	Kyv	He's in the CODE VAULT!
2021-06-22 20:26:56	ayecee	i dunno man, that name looks... foreign
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2021-06-22 20:27:03	omegatron	which is not possible, unless you know him in person - therefore all pgp (and ssl) is effectively broken
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2021-06-22 20:27:28	VG9t3	He uses vim -> instantly trusted
2021-06-22 20:27:46	omegatron	the "chain of trust" nowadays is a lame joke
2021-06-22 20:27:54	ayecee	that's a bit of a leap. one might even use the term ballistic.
2021-06-22 20:28:00	omegatron	but if you refuse, many things will break
2021-06-22 20:28:11	quartz	https://i.ibb.co/3mkz5fF/image.png   It's still tellin gme I can't update the keys
2021-06-22 20:28:11	Kyv	ballistic?
2021-06-22 20:28:16	Kyv	there might be gelatin at the end of this leap
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2021-06-22 20:28:26	Kyv	I say full speed ahead
2021-06-22 20:28:26	oush9[m]	omegatron:  isn't just verifying the fingerprint from the given website good enough?
2021-06-22 20:28:26	ayecee	one can only hope so, he's gonna be coming in hot
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2021-06-22 20:28:51	omegatron	can you proof the website hasn't been tampered with?
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2021-06-22 20:29:08	oush9[m]	can you prove the universe isn't a simulation?
2021-06-22 20:29:15	omegatron	not yet  =D
2021-06-22 20:29:19	ayecee	asking the important questions
2021-06-22 20:29:24	omegatron	can you?
2021-06-22 20:29:27	oush9[m]	how do we know the fabric of reality isn't manipulated so that you install bad software?
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2021-06-22 20:29:35	Kyv	Inevitably the point where you begin to question anyone else's browser build but your own is going to arrive.
2021-06-22 20:29:44	ayecee	it's not my fault. it's how i was simulated.
2021-06-22 20:30:01	iflema	:D
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2021-06-22 20:31:10	neshpion	and then you write your own browser because you can't trust someone else's code
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2021-06-22 20:31:38	ayecee	and then you don't use it because you can't trust that that's your code
2021-06-22 20:31:38	neshpion	but before you can do that, you have to design your own CPU to compile it on, because you can't trust the ones from intel or amd
2021-06-22 20:31:39	Kyv	but what about the code itself
2021-06-22 20:32:33	quartz	Kyv: Any ideas why this does not work?
2021-06-22 20:32:51	ayecee	it was simulated that way
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2021-06-22 20:33:25	Kyv	quartz: which point are you at?
2021-06-22 20:33:39	Kyv	importing the key?
2021-06-22 20:34:01	Kyv	I got distracted
2021-06-22 20:34:30	Kyv	oh I see
2021-06-22 20:35:10	Kyv	have you run command #5?
2021-06-22 20:35:25	quartz	sudo pacman -Sy gnupg archlinux-keyring manjaro-keyring
2021-06-22 20:35:28	quartz	I'm there.
2021-06-22 20:35:46	johnnyapol	quartz:the sks-keyservers that arch used shut down earlier than expected because they were tired of handling GDPR requests
2021-06-22 20:35:54	johnnyapol	you need to switch to the ubuntu keyservers
2021-06-22 20:36:12	oush9[m]	quartz: have you tried manually looking up that fngerprint?
2021-06-22 20:36:24	VG9t3	https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?search=0xCAA6A59611C7F07E&fingerprint=on&op=index
2021-06-22 20:36:26	johnnyapol	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Package_signing#Change_keyserver
2021-06-22 20:36:28	quartz	It asks me to import the keys of three manjaro devs, than it tells me: error: key "CAA6A59611C7F07E" could not be looked up remotely
2021-06-22 20:36:44	ayecee	johnnyapol: wow, when was that?
2021-06-22 20:36:50	johnnyapol	June 21st
2021-06-22 20:36:51	oush9[m]	right VG9t3 has the solution
2021-06-22 20:36:55	oush9[m]	quartz:
2021-06-22 20:36:59	ayecee	ah, really recent
2021-06-22 20:37:02	johnnyapol	yeah
2021-06-22 20:37:05	johnnyapol	it was unexpected
2021-06-22 20:37:13	ayecee	thanks johnnyapol, that's news to me
2021-06-22 20:37:28	johnnyapol	np
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2021-06-22 20:37:44	johnnyapol	ah crap - no sms speak. "no problem"
2021-06-22 20:37:49	ayecee	heh
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2021-06-22 20:38:41	Kyv	welp
2021-06-22 20:38:43	Kyv	time for crabcakes
2021-06-22 20:38:59	quartz	Kyv: Thanks for your help
2021-06-22 20:39:09	quartz	johnnyapol: I'll try this, thanks
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2021-06-22 20:39:42	Kyv	no trouble, quartz
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2021-06-22 20:42:06	johnnyapol	oh yeah, here's a secondary thread you can send to people with keyring issues https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/o5rcs6/psa_you_need_to_update_your_keyserver/
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2021-06-22 20:44:03	byte4byte	does anyone know how to trigger an expose event for an xwindow from another thread?
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2021-06-22 20:45:18	quartz	johnnyapol: So when I type sudo pacman -Sy gnupg archlinux-keyring manjaro-keyring"  I need to replace archlinux and manjaro with ubuntu?
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2021-06-22 20:45:31	quartz	I'm following this guide by the way: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
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2021-06-22 20:45:46	johnnyapol	no, the packages stay the same
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2021-06-22 20:45:54	johnnyapol	you just need to update the files from the reddit threaf
2021-06-22 20:46:21	pacblinky	guys do you know how to put a command into loop if it fails
2021-06-22 20:46:24	ayecee	or the archlinux wiki link from earlier
2021-06-22 20:46:24	pacblinky	like apt update
2021-06-22 20:46:42	pacblinky	when it fails for internet issues it repeat itself till the command success
2021-06-22 20:46:47	ayecee	while ! apt update; do :; done
2021-06-22 20:47:00	pacblinky	alright thx
2021-06-22 20:47:20	gry	nice one
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2021-06-22 20:48:40	ayecee	looks kinda hacky, but bash doesn't have do/while, only while/do
2021-06-22 20:49:16	pacblinky	i see
2021-06-22 20:49:37	akoana	and to honor poor forgotten until:    until apt update; do :; done   :)
2021-06-22 20:49:56	ayecee	i had forgotten about it myself
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2021-06-22 20:50:15	akoana	lol, sometimes it's handy
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2021-06-22 20:59:08	quartz	johnnyapol: I don't have a gpg.conf file in .gnupg. Should I just make one or is that not normal?
2021-06-22 20:59:46	ayecee	which instructions are you following?!
2021-06-22 20:59:57	quartz	ayecee: https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/o5rcs6/psa_you_need_to_update_your_keyserver/
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2021-06-22 21:00:18	quartz	But this link says to just update the /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/gpg.conf
2021-06-22 21:00:28	quartz	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Package_signing#Change_keyserver
2021-06-22 21:00:28	ayecee	that one makes more sense
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2021-06-22 21:01:22	quartz	I did all the instructoions in the second link, but I still can't update the keys
2021-06-22 21:01:26	quartz	THis never ends lol
2021-06-22 21:01:32	ayecee	with regards to key errors in pacman specifically
2021-06-22 21:01:39	ayecee	what happens when you try
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2021-06-22 21:03:02	quartz	ayecee: https://ibb.co/nbVK1X3
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2021-06-22 21:03:31	ayecee	different error now
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2021-06-22 21:03:54	ayecee	err... is it?
2021-06-22 21:04:01	quartz	I don't get what is wrong... I"m just following the directions...
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2021-06-22 21:04:31	ayecee	it's time to stop doing that then
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2021-06-22 21:05:01	ayecee	read the messages, try to understand what they say
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2021-06-22 21:05:39	mattf	isn't there some little app that will let you set up local disks and remote ssh to rsync to given folders, like a backup utility that can do ssh and run like once per day or so. Could be via config file or even gui. isn't there something among those lines?
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2021-06-22 21:05:57	ayecee	almost certainly
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2021-06-22 21:07:00	ayecee	quartz: what keyserver line is in your pacman conf?
2021-06-22 21:07:00	mattf	a frontend to rsync or rclone which is customizable
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2021-06-22 21:07:43	quartz	ayecee: It's only telling me to update gpg.conf. I put: "keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com"
2021-06-22 21:07:46	quartz	no quotes
2021-06-22 21:07:59	quartz	Not sure what pacman conf is
2021-06-22 21:08:20	ayecee	i meant the conf file in the pacman-related config dir.
2021-06-22 21:08:32	ayecee	so probably that one.
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2021-06-22 21:09:15	ayecee	let's try to pull the key manually. what's the id of the key that's failing, starts with CAA
2021-06-22 21:09:29	ayecee	i can't copy and paste it from your picture, so you might as well do that part
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2021-06-22 21:09:40	quartz	One moment.
2021-06-22 21:09:44	quartz	Let me get it
2021-06-22 21:10:29	quartz	error: key "CAA6A59611C7F07E" could not be looked up remotely
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2021-06-22 21:12:07	ayecee	okay, see if you can retrieve it using a different keyserver. I'm looking at this for examples: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/the-new-update-of-manjaro-fails-key/15482/20
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2021-06-22 21:12:35	ayecee	e.g. gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-key CAA6A59611C7F07E
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2021-06-22 21:14:07	quartz	ayecee: It says: gpg: keyserver receive failed: No name
2021-06-22 21:14:20	quartz	Maybe I updated the gpg.conf file wrong
2021-06-22 21:14:25	ayecee	No name? was that cut off?
2021-06-22 21:14:33	quartz	ayecee: No
2021-06-22 21:14:37	ayecee	what command did you run?
2021-06-22 21:14:38	quartz	That's the entire message
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2021-06-22 21:14:51	quartz	I just copied /paste what you wrote
2021-06-22 21:15:11	ayecee	could you copy the command from where you pasted it, and paste it here?
2021-06-22 21:15:44	quartz	gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-key CAA6A59611C7F07E
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2021-06-22 21:16:00	ayecee	cool. okay, try with another one of the keyserver names in the list.
2021-06-22 21:16:07	Scarecr0w	 /disconnect
2021-06-22 21:16:08	ayecee	see if you get the same result
2021-06-22 21:16:13	Scarecr0w	oop, sorry.
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2021-06-22 21:17:18	quartz	ayecee: keyserver.ubuntu.com worked
2021-06-22 21:17:33	ayecee	huh. that's the one that didn't work for pacman.
2021-06-22 21:17:42	quartz	I know
2021-06-22 21:17:48	quartz	This is sooooo frustrating
2021-06-22 21:17:52	quartz	gpg: key CAA6A59611C7F07E: public key "Philip Müller (Called Little) <philm@manjaro.org>" imported
2021-06-22 21:17:54	quartz	That's the output
2021-06-22 21:17:55	ayecee	do you have more than one keyserver line in your gpg.conf?
2021-06-22 21:18:02	quartz	uhhh
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2021-06-22 21:19:32	quartz	https://i.ibb.co/txrrpf0/image.png
2021-06-22 21:20:03	ayecee	a yes or no would be nicer than a big picture. my internet is really really slow here.
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2021-06-22 21:21:11	quartz	ayecee: I don't have the ubuntu keyserver listed because the first step says to remove the entire directory where gpg.conf is stored. /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
2021-06-22 21:21:23	quartz	sudo rm -r /etc/pacman.d/gnupg     that's the first command I run
2021-06-22 21:21:35	ayecee	the first step of what
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2021-06-22 21:21:48	quartz	Of this guide: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
2021-06-22 21:22:05	ayecee	...
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2021-06-22 21:22:34	ayecee	okay so if you add a config that's supposed to fix it, and then the first step of what you do next removes it, how is that going to help?
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2021-06-22 21:22:41	quartz	lol
2021-06-22 21:22:44	quartz	I know right.
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2021-06-22 21:22:59	quartz	Sorry I"m just confused and following these directions. OK let me skip step 1
2021-06-22 21:23:00	ayecee	this is where you need to _think_ about the commands you're running instead of "just following directions"
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2021-06-22 21:23:06	quartz	Yeah..
2021-06-22 21:23:13	rascul	directions are the worst
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2021-06-22 21:23:56	 *	iflema flaps wings
2021-06-22 21:24:23	quartz	Not thinking about what the directions are doing is worse
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2021-06-22 21:26:06	ayecee	that being said, it's good that you realized that's what did it. could have been hard to track down otherwise.
2021-06-22 21:27:30	quartz	ayecee: Now it's telling me that the signature from Levente Polyak is unknow....
2021-06-22 21:27:30	EdTedZed	May need a little help. I'm trying to launch i3 window manager using VNC and it seems to crash Xorg as soon as I connect with a successful credentials.
2021-06-22 21:27:32	quartz	https://hatebin.com/cantfgzehh
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2021-06-22 21:27:59	ayecee	what's the keyserver line in your gpg.conf now?
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2021-06-22 21:30:05	quartz	Uhhh there are several lines
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2021-06-22 21:30:24	quartz	ayecee: but the only keyserver line is keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com
2021-06-22 21:30:24	ayecee	several keyserver lines?
2021-06-22 21:30:34	quartz	I have 3 keyserver-options lines
2021-06-22 21:30:36	quartz	lock-never
2021-06-22 21:30:42	quartz	no-permission-warning
2021-06-22 21:30:44	quartz	and no-greeting
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2021-06-22 21:30:48	quartz	NOt sure if they are needed
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2021-06-22 21:31:04	ayecee	not interested in those, fortunately
2021-06-22 21:31:13	quartz	OK, so yes, only one keyserver line
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2021-06-22 21:31:28	ayecee	try retrieving the key that failed manually, as you did before
2021-06-22 21:31:34	ayecee	oh wait
2021-06-22 21:31:40	quartz	I did that
2021-06-22 21:31:43	quartz	:)
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2021-06-22 21:32:58	quartz	NOw it gives me this stupid error where it says the signature from Levente Polyak is unknown. The file File /var/cache/pacman/pkg/gnupg-2.2.27-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.zst is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)).
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2021-06-22 21:33:08	quartz	It asks me if I want to delete it or not
2021-06-22 21:33:19	quartz	I swear this never ends lol
2021-06-22 21:33:25	ayecee	how did you get past this point last time?
2021-06-22 21:33:37	quartz	I've never been at this point before :)
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2021-06-22 21:34:34	ayecee	i don't understand. the other error we were looking at was importing keys. this isn't doing that.
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2021-06-22 21:34:56	quartz	ayecee: I know. I'm really frustrated
2021-06-22 21:35:03	quartz	This is crazy. It sholdn't be this hard
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2021-06-22 21:35:35	ayecee	how hard should it be, when some critical piece of internet infrastructure goes down and you want to install anyways
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2021-06-22 21:35:51	ayecee	that seems like it should normally be pretty hard
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2021-06-22 21:36:11	ayecee	keep some perspective on this.
2021-06-22 21:36:18	quartz	ayecee: This is the error I get: https://hatebin.com/scwglihahy
2021-06-22 21:36:20	Kyv	I have had that error before, in my case I opted to remove the package from the cache, tried again and it worked.
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2021-06-22 21:36:49	quartz	Kyv: Yes I said yes to delete all the corrupted files, but it says no packages updated
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2021-06-22 21:37:27	quartz	Maybe it's because I don't have a .gnupg/gpg.conf
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2021-06-22 21:37:36	quartz	LIke, the directory exists, but the file is not there
2021-06-22 21:37:39	ayecee	no
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2021-06-22 21:37:57	ayecee	that is a conf for if you were using gpg separately from pacman
2021-06-22 21:38:26	quartz	So should i Just tell it to not delete these files that it thinks are corrupted?
2021-06-22 21:38:29	Kyv	quartz: have you run pacman-key --init after removing the old invalid keys?
2021-06-22 21:38:38	ayecee	so it's trying to validate the packages, but can't because it doesn't have the keys.
2021-06-22 21:39:04	quartz	Kyv: I ran that command, yes
2021-06-22 21:39:16	Kyv	okay, have you loaded the keys?
2021-06-22 21:39:17	ayecee	quartz: have you run it now, since removing all your work?
2021-06-22 21:39:26	Kyv	(the populate command)
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2021-06-22 21:39:47	quartz	Kyv: I'm not sure how to do that
2021-06-22 21:39:55	quartz	ayecee: Yes
2021-06-22 21:39:57	ayecee	how to do what
2021-06-22 21:40:01	nifl	maybe use a another key server solved my issues like that
2021-06-22 21:40:05	quartz	HOw to load the keys
2021-06-22 21:40:08	Kyv	it should have been in that initial link I posted to Manjaro wiki
2021-06-22 21:40:13	ayecee	quartz: that's in your instructions
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2021-06-22 21:40:23	Kyv	something like pacman-key --populate archlinux
2021-06-22 21:40:23	quartz	Kyv: Yeah, I'm using the ubuntu keyserver
2021-06-22 21:40:23	ayecee	steps 3 and 4
2021-06-22 21:40:43	Kyv	this may need to be adapted depending on what steps you followed with ayecee
2021-06-22 21:40:46	ayecee	quartz: you can probably skip step 2 since you likely already have those packages installed.
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2021-06-22 21:41:25	quartz	ayecee: Yes,I start at step 2
2021-06-22 21:41:31	ayecee	quartz: start at step 3
2021-06-22 21:42:29	ayecee	Kyv: the populate failed because one of his steps removed the gpg.conf he edited to fix this :P
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2021-06-22 21:42:49	Kyv	That is what pacman-key --init is for
2021-06-22 21:42:55	quartz	Kyv: I'm still stuck at step 2 lol
2021-06-22 21:42:59	ayecee	quartz: skip step 2
2021-06-22 21:43:07	quartz	I tried to go to step 3, and it did do something
2021-06-22 21:43:14	quartz	sorry step 4
2021-06-22 21:43:17	ayecee	something good or something abd
2021-06-22 21:43:20	Kyv	I dont know which steps are what
2021-06-22 21:43:24	Kyv	in this scenario
2021-06-22 21:43:29	quartz	https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
2021-06-22 21:43:29	ayecee	Kyv: in https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
2021-06-22 21:43:56	quartz	Yeah step 3 works fine
2021-06-22 21:44:06	ayecee	okay so what happens in step 4
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2021-06-22 21:44:16	quartz	Well lets see
2021-06-22 21:44:21	Kyv	all right now run the --populate command
2021-06-22 21:44:51	ayecee	i gotta go soon. so if i stop responding, it's probably that.
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2021-06-22 21:44:53	quartz	Well it looks like step 4 works. It does not give me an error.
2021-06-22 21:44:58	ayecee	hooray
2021-06-22 21:45:04	quartz	It locally signs and disables lots of keys
2021-06-22 21:45:25	quartz	But step 2 is still missing, so I"m not sure how this will work
2021-06-22 21:45:32	ayecee	ignore step 2
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2021-06-22 21:46:16	ayecee	you likely already have those packages installed. you for sure have gpg installed.
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2021-06-22 21:46:56	Kyv	lets see if we can proceed with the last two
2021-06-22 21:47:11	ayecee	seems like something's missing in the directions - how would you install those packages, if you just removed all the signing keys you trust?
2021-06-22 21:47:14	quartz	OK here goes step 5
2021-06-22 21:47:24	Kyv	including the option 6th one
2021-06-22 21:47:29	Kyv	optional*
2021-06-22 21:48:10	quartz	Step 5 is working but taking time
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2021-06-22 21:48:20	ayecee	sounds reasonable
2021-06-22 21:48:28	craigevil	pacman doesn't have any option to install an untrusted local package?
2021-06-22 21:48:40	ayecee	craigevil: it probably does, and those aren't in the directions.
2021-06-22 21:48:45	Kyv	god willing the last step should be to run `pacman -Syyu` to resync everything
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2021-06-22 21:49:15	quartz	I think it's actually working.
2021-06-22 21:49:25	quartz	It keeps listing random people's names and their emails.
2021-06-22 21:49:41	ayecee	sounds like a working kind of thing to do
2021-06-22 21:49:57	quartz	==> ERROR: A specified local key could not be updated from a keyserver.
2021-06-22 21:50:01	Dagmar	Hopefully those are the names of developers
2021-06-22 21:50:04	quartz	So... I guess it kinda worked
2021-06-22 21:50:35	ayecee	quartz: okay, now find out which keyserver you can retrieve that key from manually
2021-06-22 21:50:59	quartz	ayecee: Oohhh it's listing lots of keys hahah
2021-06-22 21:51:04	ayecee	quartz: then, change the keyserver in pacman's gpg.conf to that server, and rerun the command that failed
2021-06-22 21:51:12	ayecee	just the one that failed
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2021-06-22 21:51:32	quartz	This is what I get now: https://hatebin.com/gztrkgqgmq
2021-06-22 21:51:47	craigevil	wow now i know why i love debian and apt/dpkg
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2021-06-22 21:52:01	ayecee	craigevil: they could have the same problem.
2021-06-22 21:52:05	quartz	craigevil: Yeah I'm seriously considering ditching this Manjaro
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2021-06-22 21:52:21	quartz	"It just works" lol
2021-06-22 21:52:31	ayecee	craigevil: the origin of the problem is that the default keyserver was very recently shut down.
2021-06-22 21:52:55	craigevil	dpkg doesn't check keys of a local package, or you can feed apt the untrusted command
2021-06-22 21:52:57	quartz	Do you guys think I can just proced to step 6? Or am I good?
2021-06-22 21:53:21	Dagmar	Sure... What's the worst that could possibly happen that doesn't happen pretty regularly on Arch
2021-06-22 21:53:53	ayecee	quartz: as long as the keys that are used to sign the packages you want to install and update, are installed, then you're good.
2021-06-22 21:53:57	quartz	pamac is really nice though. Is there nothing equivalent for apt?
2021-06-22 21:54:01	craigevil	i played with manjaro for a couple of weeks on my pi400 until a kde/gpg key updated gave me a blank desktop
2021-06-22 21:54:13	ayecee	quartz: really the only way to find out is to update a package and see if it fails with a key error.
2021-06-22 21:54:29	Dagmar	quartz: No, it only has dpkg source packages made by sane people
2021-06-22 21:54:43	quartz	craigevil: That's disturbing. I need this laptop for work/school. I thought manjaro was VERY stable.
2021-06-22 21:54:56	quartz	Dagmar: What do you mean?
2021-06-22 21:55:35	ayecee	manjaro is a lot of things, but i don't think i've heard "stable" applied to it
2021-06-22 21:55:37	Dagmar	English words, arranged artfully into a sentence.
2021-06-22 21:55:41	Kyv	Here it is a freak & unexpected case
2021-06-22 21:55:52	ayecee	except from an overzealous user who meant "it didn't crash for me"
2021-06-22 21:56:26	ayecee	the same kind of user who would further qualify it with VERY
2021-06-22 21:56:32	Dagmar	I _reasonably_ expect Fedora to not pull the chair out from under me
2021-06-22 21:56:35	quartz	ayecee: librewolf-bin still does not work lol
2021-06-22 21:56:42	ayecee	quartz: doesn't work how
2021-06-22 21:56:43	quartz	same error about the pgp key
2021-06-22 21:56:49	ayecee	what error
2021-06-22 21:57:07	Dagmar	The first time they do, I go back to Slackware for those machines.
2021-06-22 21:57:07	quartz	==> ERROR: One or more PGP signatures could not be verified!
2021-06-22 21:57:08	quartz	Failed to build librewolf-bin
2021-06-22 21:57:18	ayecee	what signature could not be verified
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2021-06-22 21:57:31	Dagmar	...and why was it not already stored in the local keystore?
2021-06-22 21:57:35	quartz	librewolf-89.0.1-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.zst ... FAILED (unknown public key 2954CC8585E27A3F)
2021-06-22 21:57:38	craigevil	flatpak install io.gitlab.librewolf-community problem solved
2021-06-22 21:58:04	ayecee	quartz: can you manually retrieve that key from the ubuntu keyserver, or one of the others on that list?
2021-06-22 21:58:07	quartz	HOw is flatpak different from getting it through the AUR?
2021-06-22 21:58:24	quartz	Maybe I need step 6?
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2021-06-22 21:58:26	quartz	Uhm, let me try
2021-06-22 21:58:27	ayecee	no
2021-06-22 21:58:34	Dagmar	Wow.  If you google that it becomes apparent the people making that package framework need a refesher about how PKI works
2021-06-22 21:58:53	quartz	Dagmar: Librewolf?
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2021-06-22 21:58:56	Dagmar	Heck, while we're at it, what level of trust is being applied to these keys/>
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2021-06-22 21:59:51	ayecee	quartz: if you can, change the keyserver line in pacman's gpg.conf to that server, then rerun that sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys
2021-06-22 21:59:55	Dagmar	quartz: _Seriously_.  Searcing for "public key 2954CC8585E27A3F" the first hit involves AUR, the second hit involves AUR, the third hit involves AUR, and then _several_ of the following hits mention librewolf specificallyt
2021-06-22 21:59:57	ayecee	and now i gotta go, bbl.
2021-06-22 22:00:17	quartz	ayecee: OK thanks for your help
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2021-06-22 22:00:24	Dagmar	As a reminder, it's not really enough that a developer signed their package with a key you can get from a keyserver somewhere
2021-06-22 22:00:34	Dagmar	Their key _also_ needs to be signed by someone else that you trust.
2021-06-22 22:00:46	Dagmar	Ideally _YOU_ but in a pinch, a role key used byu the distribution maintiners
2021-06-22 22:01:20	quartz	So, I"m not sure how to get this to work then
2021-06-22 22:01:55	quartz	I guess I should swtich distros because manjaro is not very stable anyway lol
2021-06-22 22:02:11	Dagmar	I'd say "by making a leap of faith", which does not bode well considering the purpose of the package
2021-06-22 22:02:30	Dagmar	Faith is for chumps who believe in colored cursors and free coupons right in the browser
2021-06-22 22:02:54	Dagmar	Real admins use cryptographic keychains.
2021-06-22 22:03:13	craigevil	manjaro is considered bleeding-edge, stable = ubuntu lts, debian stable, slack
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2021-06-22 22:03:54	quartz	craigevil: Great... so I should swtich to kubuntu...
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2021-06-22 22:04:06	Dagmar	The only reason I'm not running Slackware on my laptop at the moment is that I have yet to circle back around and rig up an initrd that can deal with an encrypted /
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2021-06-22 22:05:49	craigevil	quartz, if you are a kde fan you might try kde neon or debian bullseye
2021-06-22 22:06:06	quartz	craigevil: Why not Kubuntu?
2021-06-22 22:06:31	craigevil	sorry not a fan of anything having to do with *buntu
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2021-06-22 22:07:27	craigevil	if you like kubuntu go for it, nothing really wrong with it
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2021-06-22 22:07:50	quartz	I just want a distro that is super stable. I thought that was manjaro according to what I read
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2021-06-22 22:10:21	Kyv	Yeah taking Dagmar's points into account, you'd have to read on in the comments of that AUR package.
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2021-06-22 22:12:10	quartz	Kyv: When I try to recieve the key that can't be verified when I try to install librewolf-bin, I can do it from the ubuntu keyserver....
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2021-06-22 22:12:27	rascul	my mouse cursor is orange
2021-06-22 22:12:28	quartz	BUt when I try to install librewolf-bin from pamac, it says that same key can't be verified.
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2021-06-22 22:15:37	Kyv	I dont know whether you had tried to manually import using eg. with gpg
2021-06-22 22:16:04	Kyv	now this thing with the server is coinciding
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2021-06-22 22:17:24	quartz	Kyv: Yes I did gpg --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com  --recv-keys 2954CC8585E27A3F
2021-06-22 22:17:28	quartz	That should work right?
2021-06-22 22:17:38	Kyv	Dagmar: What would you have expected the search results for that to look like?
2021-06-22 22:18:10	vitorgonc	hello, i got a new ssd drive and i wanted to install a source based distro in it, but gentoo is a bit inconvenient to install. is there a source-based distro easy as arch?
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2021-06-22 22:18:40	Kyv	Not that it could render a veritable masala of results
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2021-06-22 22:19:45	Kyv	quartz: people were having similar issue under similar circumstances, you can see in the comments
2021-06-22 22:20:07	quartz	omg
2021-06-22 22:20:10	quartz	IT worked
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2021-06-22 22:20:24	quartz	Wow thanks everyone. This was a learning experience.
2021-06-22 22:20:43	Kyv	hallelujah
2021-06-22 22:20:45	Kyv	what happened?
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2021-06-22 22:21:47	quartz	I imported the key and tried to reinstall the package via pamac
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2021-06-22 22:23:18	quartz	Anyway... if I need a stable system, I guess the idea is not to use Manjaro?
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2021-06-22 22:23:52	tusko	!notarch
2021-06-22 22:23:53	Kyv	For whatever reason it seems to be the worse off despite holding back and vetting things.
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2021-06-22 22:24:46	vitorgonc	if you want rock-solid stability, just use debian.
2021-06-22 22:25:11	<--	Tempesta (Tempesta@user/tempesta) has quit (Quit: See ya!)
2021-06-22 22:25:18	Kyv	people will say, yes, I dont have stability issues in Artix
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2021-06-22 22:25:36	Kyv	but here its the community and extra repos available to me
2021-06-22 22:25:53	Kyv	Otherwise they have their own
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2021-06-22 22:26:29	Kyv	so I am not reluctant to use 'rolling' as a stable system
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2021-06-22 22:29:08	Kyv	maybe part of that is I keep very simple systems that I keep within the realm of my own understanding and maintenance
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2021-06-22 22:30:18	Kyv	the things either dont exist to cause problems, or they are fairly easily managed
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2021-06-22 22:35:13	quartz	vitorgonc: But ubuntu/kubuntu is based on debian, so is that a good choice too?
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2021-06-22 22:39:57	vitorgonc	i don't think so, because ubuntu has different repos
2021-06-22 22:40:32	vitorgonc	but it is still ok to use if you don't feel comfortable with debian
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2021-06-22 22:41:12	Sauvin	I've been using Kubuntu for years, and had used Debian for years before that. Not noticing a lot of difference in terms of stability.
2021-06-22 22:41:54	Sauvin	The thing about using rolling release distros (gentoo, arch, slack, etc) is that people claim they use it with zero stability issues, but those people tend to be expert Linux users.
2021-06-22 22:42:52	Dagmar	...and those that think "stable" just means "doesn't spontaneously burn to the ground, requiring a reinstall"
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2021-06-22 22:43:24	nevivurn	Hey, I upgraded, still boots, success!
2021-06-22 22:43:59	vitorgonc	debian packages are well more outdated and curated to prevent stability issues on the stable branch, thing that ubuntu don't do but it's still a lts version
2021-06-22 22:44:02	Kyv	It may be antecdotal but I do not mean it in those ways.
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2021-06-22 22:44:14	Kyv	I have used Debian and Debian-based distros and notice no particular hangups.
2021-06-22 22:44:40	vitorgonc	lts ubuntu is a good option if you dont seek the maximum stability you can get
2021-06-22 22:46:43	craigevil	bullseye should be released sometime in july
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2021-06-22 22:47:56	bparker	gasp, nobody absolutely shat all over a mention of ubuntu
2021-06-22 22:48:56	 *	craigevil poops
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2021-06-22 22:50:16	craigevil	can't really complain, i am running rpios upgraded to debian sid, so in the eyes of the debian people "frankendebian"
2021-06-22 22:50:22	Sauvin	I tend to view LTS Ubuntu as a good compromise between "fairly recent software" and "stability".
2021-06-22 22:50:32	Kyv	And Artix comes with the option not just to base install and several different inits but also Calamares installer with Xfce, Cinnamon, and LXwhatever
2021-06-22 22:51:32	bparker	Artix? like the FPGA?
2021-06-22 22:51:35	Kyv	Those versions arent packed to the brim with all sorts of cruft, though
2021-06-22 22:51:53	craigevil	Distro: Raspberry Pi OS base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) System: Raspberry Pi 400
2021-06-22 22:52:38	Kyv	bparker: fraid not
2021-06-22 22:52:49	bparker	Sauvin: usually the purists argue all kinds of stuff ranging from 'backed by a company so its evil', to 'it comes with ads and phones home by default so its garbage'
2021-06-22 22:53:08	Sauvin	Yup.
2021-06-22 22:53:09	bparker	or 'its just debian unstable'
2021-06-22 22:53:13	bparker	'but worse'
2021-06-22 22:53:18	bparker	smh
2021-06-22 22:53:29	Sauvin	That would be "shaking my head", not "smh".
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2021-06-22 22:53:39	bparker	ikr
2021-06-22 22:53:45	bparker	lol
2021-06-22 22:53:49	Sauvin	Read the topic: no SMS.
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2021-06-22 22:53:55	gry	That would be 'I know right', 'haha', not what you said
2021-06-22 22:54:07	bparker	imagine having such a dumbass rule
2021-06-22 22:54:08	bparker	jesus christ
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2021-06-22 22:54:21	Rakko	Isn't "No SMS" itself "SMS" for "No SMS abbreviations"?
2021-06-22 22:54:37	Sauvin	If you don't like it, then part. This channel is international, and many people here do not speak English as a first language. Myself, for example.
2021-06-22 22:54:57	Sauvin	SMS is a technical term.
2021-06-22 22:55:00	bparker	lol
2021-06-22 22:55:22	Rakko	Sauvin: the topic's mention of SMS doesn't give enough context as to what's being objected to
2021-06-22 22:55:32	bparker	even people who do not speak English can use lol
2021-06-22 22:55:36	Rakko	never mind, I guess the parenthetic is enough
2021-06-22 22:55:37	bparker	quit gatekeeping your slang
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2021-06-22 22:55:49	vitorgonc	could i use systemd-boot with artix linux?
2021-06-22 22:56:03	Rakko	but I would still say "no SMS abbreviations", not "no SMS"
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2021-06-22 22:56:35	Sauvin	Rakko, there appears to be considerable misunderstanding where the terms "initialisms", "abbreviations" and "phoneticisms" are involved.
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2021-06-22 22:56:51	Rakko	I find the set of English abbreviations that are mostly used by non-native English speakers interesting; e.g. "resp.", "pls.", etc.
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2021-06-22 22:57:09	Rakko	Sauvin: huh, I've never even heard of a phoneticism. Good point.
2021-06-22 22:57:10	Kyv	vitorgonc: basically the only remnant of systemd is in patched standalone systemd, and that is to stretch.
2021-06-22 22:57:15	Sauvin	e.g. is older than dirt, not sure what "resp." is, and "pls" is not allowed.
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2021-06-22 22:57:42	Rakko	hah, I was using e.g. in its standard meaning, NOT as an example of foreign abbreviations
2021-06-22 22:57:56	Kyv	standalone elogind, sorry
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2021-06-22 22:58:01	Sauvin	What is "e.g." standard definition?
2021-06-22 22:58:07	Rakko	"for example"
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2021-06-22 22:58:14	neshpion	example given
2021-06-22 22:58:25	Gustavo6046	waiting for 1 KB simd
2021-06-22 22:58:34	neshpion	i mean e.g. is almost as time-tested as a.k.a.
2021-06-22 22:58:38	Gustavo6046	what's the biggest simd width ever ever?
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2021-06-22 22:58:50	Rakko	it's quite a bit more time-tested :)
2021-06-22 22:58:51	Gustavo6046	in a single cpu core
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2021-06-22 22:58:52	Kyv	It sometimes utilizes dummy packages in order to operate with the Arch repositories and not get tangled in systemd hijinx.
2021-06-22 22:58:54	Sauvin	I'll buy neshpion's translation because I forgot what the exact Latin is, something like "exempla gratia" or some crap.
2021-06-22 22:58:57	danieldg	Gustavo6046: probably need to look at GPUs for that
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2021-06-22 22:59:08	Gustavo6046	i wonder if pairing CPUs would allow multiplying the SIMD width by the # of CPUs whilst still using as if it were a single core
2021-06-22 22:59:09	Rakko	Sauvin: close -- exempli
2021-06-22 22:59:13	Gustavo6046	just tell each CPU to operate on a different address
2021-06-22 22:59:14	Gustavo6046	oh wait
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2021-06-22 22:59:17	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-06-22 22:59:20	Gustavo6046	that's how
2021-06-22 22:59:23	Gustavo6046	hmmmmmm! :O
2021-06-22 22:59:25	Sauvin	"exemple gratis"
2021-06-22 22:59:26	 *	Sauvin hides
2021-06-22 22:59:27	crn	rakko, example gratis, it's latin not english
2021-06-22 22:59:36	Gustavo6046	that's how GPUs work!
2021-06-22 22:59:37	neshpion	hon hon
2021-06-22 22:59:45	Rakko	crn: that's not the phrase, but yes, the phrase is latin
2021-06-22 22:59:50	Gustavo6046	exemplis grata, iirc
2021-06-22 22:59:52	Gustavo6046	but I might be wrong
2021-06-22 23:00:00	Gustavo6046	from the top of my head
2021-06-22 23:00:03	Gustavo6046	nah grata makes no sense
2021-06-22 23:00:07	Rakko	exempli gratia
2021-06-22 23:00:11	Gustavo6046	'grate' would be the adverbial form
2021-06-22 23:00:13	bparker	no latin
2021-06-22 23:00:27	Gustavo6046	ede merdam meam
2021-06-22 23:00:33	Gustavo6046	anyways
2021-06-22 23:00:37	Rakko	I'd prefer not to
2021-06-22 23:00:38	neshpion	didn't France start a petition to make Latin the lingua franca of the EU or something?
2021-06-22 23:00:46	<--	nifl (~user@user/niflce) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-22 23:00:47	Kyv	imagine looking up a phrase only to act like you vaguely remember it in public
2021-06-22 23:01:07	bparker	off-topic
2021-06-22 23:01:08	Sauvin	I never heard of no such a thing, and I'd laugh my bohinkies off if I did. It'd be idiotic.
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2021-06-22 23:01:35	neshpion	but it would be the cool kind of idiotic
2021-06-22 23:01:42	vitorgonc	can i use systemd-boot with init systems other than systemd?
2021-06-22 23:01:53	Sauvin	Cogito ergo farto.
2021-06-22 23:02:08	bparker	なに
2021-06-22 23:02:19	neshpion	https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/french-call-to-replace-english-with-latin-as-europe-s-official-language-44961
2021-06-22 23:03:29	Sauvin	They'd be far better just asking that French be used.
2021-06-22 23:03:31	Kyv	are you an avid reader of testosterone replacement therapy world
2021-06-22 23:03:55	neshpion	Kyv: i don't konw what their use of TRT stands for and it was just the first result on my searx query
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2021-06-22 23:04:26	Kyv	its the damn belgians isnt it?
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2021-06-22 23:04:35	neshpion	Sauvin: skimming the text body appears that they actually do want French to be used, and some posit Latin as an alternative if they can't push French
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2021-06-22 23:04:38	Kyv	I am too bleary-eyed to click links at the moment
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2021-06-22 23:05:24	Sauvin	French is already one of the international lanuages of diplomacy and one of the major languages used at the UN.
2021-06-22 23:05:33	neshpion	i kind of hope it succeeds.  the anglosphere is boring me and some globally-impactful linguistical hyjinks would be interesting
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2021-06-22 23:06:29	Sauvin	Thing of it is, there's more than just Europe to consider. The US and Canada, China, Japan and maybe a few other places that are global economic powers.
2021-06-22 23:06:47	Sauvin	If they start moving away from English, they'll start also moving away from international trade.
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2021-06-22 23:07:41	neshpion	everybody just learn latin :DDDDDD
2021-06-22 23:08:01	<--	kirk781 (~doors@2402:3a80:b41:61f4:4953:db48:9d37:620f) has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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2021-06-22 23:08:14	Kyv	si vis pacem, para bellum :|
2021-06-22 23:08:23	Kyv	I'm not making it into the UN am i
2021-06-22 23:08:38	neshpion	parabellum? hehe john wick go pew pew
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2021-06-22 23:08:56	 *	Kyv smacks neshpion atop the head
2021-06-22 23:08:59	vitorgonc	why are you discussing languages in the linux channel
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2021-06-22 23:09:19	 *	neshpion hides from the sirens
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2021-06-22 23:10:15	Sauvin	We're bored and there's nothing else going on. Off-topic chatter is not strictly forbidden so long as it observes decorum and does not interfere with "business".
2021-06-22 23:10:50	crn	vitorgonc, it's machine learning. there is no one here.
2021-06-22 23:10:56	neshpion	sudo pacman -S EU/latin
2021-06-22 23:11:02	Kyv	except for him
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2021-06-22 23:11:14	neshpion	no, he is the machine-learning algo
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2021-06-22 23:12:50	Kyv	he is not
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2021-06-22 23:14:29	Gustavo6046	Sauvin: French already used to be a lingua franca before WW2
2021-06-22 23:14:32	neshpion	place your bets now
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2021-06-22 23:15:33	Gustavo6046	on lingua franca,
2021-06-22 23:15:48	-->	EdTedZed (~EdTedZed@2.56.190.229) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 23:16:04	Sauvin	Gustavo6046, French was very widely spoken for two or three centuries before WWII, actually.
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2021-06-22 23:16:38	Gustavo6046	Sauvin: hence before
2021-06-22 23:16:39	-->	gector (~gector@173.241.175.189) has joined #linux
2021-06-22 23:16:41	Gustavo6046	or until
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2021-06-22 23:16:43	Gustavo6046	but yeah
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2021-06-22 23:17:25	wyclif	If I were a kid growing up today, I'm sure Mandarin would be of more importance to learn than it was when I was a kid
2021-06-22 23:17:44	crn	yep
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2021-06-22 23:17:53	neshpion	why mandarin over cantonese?
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2021-06-22 23:18:00	wyclif	More widespread
2021-06-22 23:18:01	Sauvin	If you speak English, French _and_ German, you can go just about any place in western Europe and be OK. These languages are also widely spoken in Africa and some parts of the Far East (especially French).
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2021-06-22 23:18:20	Sauvin	Because Mandarin is the "official dialect".
2021-06-22 23:18:23	neshpion	but not the Far-Far east, there you speak Russian
2021-06-22 23:18:26	neshpion	:D
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2021-06-22 23:18:41	crn	neshpion, 3 tones are easier than 7.
2021-06-22 23:18:48	Sauvin	Yeah, well, Russian gets ou around in Russia itself and in eastern Europe.
2021-06-22 23:18:52	neshpion	more tones more POWER
2021-06-22 23:18:54	wyclif	English/French/German is still hugely important in academia in the humanities (outside Classics)
2021-06-22 23:19:44	wyclif	and practically speaking, yes, you can go almost anywhere in Western Europe and a lot of other parts of the world and you'll get along just fine
2021-06-22 23:19:49	Gustavo6046	int main(int argc, char** argv) { { class MyThing { public static void Main(String args[]) { def main(): /*{*/ struct CrapApp {}; impl CrapApp { fn main(&self) { let my_main = function() { console.log("Your challenge now is to list all the languages mimicked here, from outermost to innermost. Good luck.") }; my_main(); } }; fn main() { let crap_app = CrapApp {}; crap_app.main(); }; /*}*/ main() };
2021-06-22 23:19:52	Gustavo6046	new MyThing.Main([]); } return 0; }
2021-06-22 23:20:12	 *	Sauvin hands Gustavo6046 a mop
2021-06-22 23:20:17	vitorgonc	insane java
2021-06-22 23:20:18	Gustavo6046	...hmm?
2021-06-22 23:20:36	Gustavo6046	vitorgonc: shh, don't spoil it. It's not just one language :D
2021-06-22 23:20:38	<--	jorp (~jorp@rockylinux/pr/jorp) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-22 23:20:39	Sauvin	You puked all over the channel floor. Now clean it up.
2021-06-22 23:20:43	Kyv	that isnt pule
2021-06-22 23:20:46	Kyv	puke
2021-06-22 23:20:51	Kyv	its crap
2021-06-22 23:20:56	Gustavo6046	There are gold nuggets in the pile of crap
2021-06-22 23:21:01	schillingklaus	that's why wyclif translated the Linux Manual from Latin into English
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2021-06-22 23:21:23	Sauvin	Is that what it is? Man pages always looked so much like Sanskrit to me!
2021-06-22 23:21:25	puke	Kyv: its me
2021-06-22 23:21:27	Gustavo6046	But the first one to find out all of the languages shown correctly, from the outermost to the innermost blocks, gets a shoutout :D
2021-06-22 23:21:36	jim	Gustavo6046, it was only one line and a little bit of another, but it's not formated, and so not readable.... you might pastebin the code with its line breaks
2021-06-22 23:21:42	knocktwice	why is xfdesktop going 100% of a core?
2021-06-22 23:21:51	Gustavo6046	schillingklaus: the real bible is the Linux manual, it reads like it reads today because medieval scribes were pretty dumb
2021-06-22 23:22:01	vitorgonc	java, js and go?
2021-06-22 23:22:06	Khaytsus	knocktwice: xfdesktop --reload
2021-06-22 23:22:08	knocktwice	Can I kill -1 xfdesktop without killing X?
2021-06-22 23:22:09	Khaytsus	knocktwice: Does that sort it?
2021-06-22 23:22:12	Gustavo6046	jim: oh, oops... well, yeah, it broke into two lines because of my client
2021-06-22 23:22:29	Gustavo6046	I think the challenge is a little bit less challenging with everything indented and linebroken properly. But aight
2021-06-22 23:22:35	Khaytsus	I had that happen to me for like..  a year.  Every few days I had to restart it, no idea why.  randomly stopped.
2021-06-22 23:23:05	vitorgonc	oh
2021-06-22 23:23:24	vitorgonc	its python, java, js and maybe something
2021-06-22 23:23:33	knocktwice	Khaytsus: sadly, no.  It's still at 100, and xorg is at around 80 now
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2021-06-22 23:23:40	vitorgonc	go
2021-06-22 23:23:44	vitorgonc	and haskell?
2021-06-22 23:23:50	Khaytsus	knocktwice: huh, bummer
2021-06-22 23:24:29	schillingklaus	not that decadent creep called rust
2021-06-22 23:24:34	knocktwice	Khaytsus: does this mean anything to you?: (xfdesktop:16473): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL
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2021-06-22 23:24:50	vitorgonc	i think rust is cool
2021-06-22 23:24:55	Kyv	Go does not spill out over the edge of the bathtub into a pink slime that tries to eat your friend's baby
2021-06-22 23:25:05	Gustavo6046	uhhh
2021-06-22 23:25:06	vitorgonc	but its overshadowing some other things like crystal
2021-06-22 23:25:15	Gustavo6046	vitorgonc: nope, but you got some right
2021-06-22 23:25:34	knocktwice	Khaytsus: 'application->priv->is_registered' failed
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2021-06-22 23:27:36	Gustavo6046	fine, I'll do the darned line breaks and indentation, but I'll tack in more languages >:D
2021-06-22 23:29:25	knocktwice	for the record, kill -1 <pid of xfdesktop> also did not work...
2021-06-22 23:29:44	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-22 23:29:59	Kyv	let the record show that kill -1 <pid of xfdesktop> also did not work
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2021-06-22 23:30:21	Kyv	objection
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2021-06-22 23:30:28	neshpion	overruled
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2021-06-22 23:30:41	Kyv	dayum
2021-06-22 23:30:49	craigevil	killall die die whoops that doesn't work
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2021-06-22 23:31:06	jim	let the record turn
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2021-06-22 23:31:43	Kyv	turning record
2021-06-22 23:32:10	craigevil	puts on a 78
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2021-06-22 23:36:11	schillingklaus	desktop environments are anti-unixish, anyways; so I refrain from these
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2021-06-22 23:37:24	puff	Is there any way to search all of the drivers in the foomatic database?  The "Make and Model" "Change Driver" dialog doesn't have a search option.
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2021-06-22 23:39:46	puff	Also, how do I see which driver is currently in use?
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2021-06-22 23:41:28	puff	Hm, it looks like I must have downloaded hplip separately.
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2021-06-22 23:46:13	[[R]]	puff: linuxprinting.org has a printer database...
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2021-06-22 23:51:13	Gustavo6046	Behold
2021-06-22 23:51:19	Gustavo6046	https://termbin.com/9sg44
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2021-06-22 23:53:39	Gustavo6046	I have a separate paste with each answer in a comment before the respective chunk of code, but I wanna see if anyone can get the langs right first :D
2021-06-22 23:53:46	Gustavo6046	But for now, have at it!
2021-06-22 23:54:05	rascul	no
2021-06-22 23:54:09	Gustavo6046	Yes
2021-06-22 23:54:39	rascul	no
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2021-06-22 23:55:32	Gustavo6046	rascul: it's fun though!
2021-06-22 23:55:39	rascul	oh well
2021-06-22 23:55:40	schillingklaus	perversely stupid game
2021-06-22 23:55:47	Gustavo6046	can you tell at least the number of languages involved in that steaming heap?
2021-06-22 23:56:01	rascul	>=1
2021-06-22 23:56:18	Gustavo6046	==
2021-06-22 23:56:44	schillingklaus	it just proves that gustavosomething is a schizophreniac creep
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2021-06-22 23:59:16	Gustavo6046	schillingklaus: what does?
2021-06-22 23:59:32	Gustavo6046	and the game is not perverted
2021-06-22 23:59:36	Gustavo6046	it's just stupid.. VERY stupid
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2021-06-22 23:59:43	Gustavo6046	which only makes it all that much better! ^^
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2021-06-23 00:02:19	puff	[[R]]: Thanks.
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2021-06-23 00:17:16	Gustavo6046	Look
2021-06-23 00:17:19	Gustavo6046	they're ten programming languages
2021-06-23 00:17:38	Gustavo6046	hang on
2021-06-23 00:17:46	Sauvin	schillingklaus, personal comments like that are not welcome here.
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2021-06-23 00:18:51	Gustavo6046	https://termbin.com/hhus have some help
2021-06-23 00:18:59	[[R]]	Sauvin: what about impersonal attacks?
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2021-06-23 00:33:06	talismanick	Can I use an old laptop as a mesh router?
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2021-06-23 00:35:47	[[R]]	you have wifi mesh hardware that can act as an access point?
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2021-06-23 00:35:56	[[R]]	that can then plug into a laptop
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2021-06-23 00:37:25	talismanick	[[R]]: Would that be of any use?
2021-06-23 00:37:46	[[R]]	what?
2021-06-23 00:38:24	talismanick	plugging the mesh hardware into the laptop (3GB of RAM, 4 cores) as opposed to a cheap SBC
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2021-06-23 00:39:02	[[R]]	huh?
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2021-06-23 00:40:15	talismanick	I don't have mesh hardware and am looking into this for the first time. I have no clue what's going on.
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2021-06-23 00:49:51	schillingklaus	so mesh routing is routing with some special hardware, not routing in a mesh-shped network?
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2021-06-23 00:53:35	jundran	how do I make the following alias wordalias echothis= 'echo XI"dont""know''how'to'echo'this/"line?X'
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2021-06-23 00:54:27	jundran	how do I make this alias work? I want to echo everything between the 2 X.
2021-06-23 00:54:32	jundran	alias echothis= 'something""else''how'to'echo'this/"line?'
2021-06-23 00:55:05	Sauvin	For one thing, lose the space between the = and the second '
2021-06-23 00:57:08	jundran	I di that but I get unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"'
2021-06-23 00:57:37	jundran	forwzrd slashes don't help
2021-06-23 00:58:07	jundran	or is it backslash to escape?
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2021-06-23 00:58:36	 *	backslash to escape
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2021-06-23 00:59:19	jundran	well \ before the quotes doesn't work either
2021-06-23 00:59:41	Gustavo6046	Okay, I'll keep the record straight. As interest in actually figuring it out seems low, I'll just post the answers
2021-06-23 01:00:10	jundran	alias echothis='echo "XI\"dont\"\"know\'\'how\'to\'echo\'this\"line?X"'
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2021-06-23 01:01:03	justsomeguy	jundran: cat << "EOF" ... your weird, potentially multi-line string goes here\n EOF
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2021-06-23 01:03:38	backslash	jundran: or, if on bash: alias echothis=$'escaped: \' with backslash'
2021-06-23 01:03:56	justsomeguy	jundran: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide/InputAndOutput#Heredocs_And_Herestrings
2021-06-23 01:04:02	jundran	im on bash
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2021-06-23 01:08:12	jundran	im confused. im going to have to read that link
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2021-06-23 01:57:59	[a]	Good day to all - I hope that you're doing all great. I need some help on something...
2021-06-23 01:58:00	[a]	That is, if anyone in here is familiar with VMware vSphere Web Client.
2021-06-23 01:58:00	[a]	[Scenario]
2021-06-23 01:58:01	[a]	I can't seem to find this...  " Configure IP Settings from the vSphere Web Client"  https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-vSphere/6.7/com.vmware.esxi.install.doc/GUID-8C70FB9B-D2AB-424E-BBBD-B77AC33C6EF8.html     at my dashboard,   https://pasteboard.co/K7TqUeI.png .
2021-06-23 01:58:01	[a]	I've checked and saw that I have vSphere Client version 6.7.0.48000... but then again I cant seem to find "Virtual adapters." at https://pasteboard.co/K7TqUeI.png .
2021-06-23 01:58:02	[a]	Can someone please tell me if I have missed something obvious... (scratches his/her head).
2021-06-23 01:58:02	[a]	I'm new to VMware vSphere client adminstration and my objective is to assign a static IP and (its DNS entries later on) to my newly-created VM named 'elastic4.<redactedDomainName.blahBlah>' . I haven't found the appropriate documentation for that at www.mware.com ...so can any of you, um, give me some tips on how to configure an IP address for a VM
2021-06-23 01:58:03	[a]	from the vSphere Web Client this, please? Thanks in advance.
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2021-06-23 02:30:02	jim	[a], I'm personally not familiar with VSphere anything... doesn't mean no one is... and, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in finding channels on this irc net. To get started, /msg alis help... maybe /msg alis list vsphere would yield a presence here
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2021-06-23 02:31:02	jim	I don't actually see anything from that
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2021-06-23 02:31:20	jim	I guess there's not a presence here
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2021-06-23 02:32:42	geirha	there's a #vmware channel though
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2021-06-23 02:34:09	jim	right, and I just found out vsphere was introduced in 2009 as a successor to vmware, dunno whether it was successful
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2021-06-23 03:29:30	autopsy	Wow. Did Khaytsus scare all the children away?
2021-06-23 03:30:18	autopsy	C'mon I know there's some old farts want to war wit us.
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2021-06-23 03:30:43	autopsy	So. What version of Linux did you first use ever?
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2021-06-23 03:30:56	autopsy	Answer me calmly.
2021-06-23 03:31:45	autopsy	I know it wasn't Debian Buster but maybe it was Sid. ? I know it wasn't Ubuntu... and I know you know OpenSuSE is a knockoff.
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2021-06-23 03:32:42	autopsy	POLL: What kernel version did you first use ever?
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2021-06-23 03:33:27	autopsy	I bring the hatred cmon. 10 26 forty niner.
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2021-06-23 03:34:17	autopsy	jim, am I out of line? Just gotta tell me and I'll cut back on the fat.
2021-06-23 03:35:33	Sauvin	I think I first installed Linux on a personal computer in 1997. Red Hat 5, I think it was (this was *before* Fedora, RHEL and all that).
2021-06-23 03:35:59	bradd	kernel 2.2 on slack if I remember right
2021-06-23 03:36:08	ionface	autopsy, did I somehow mute people or are you monologuing?
2021-06-23 03:36:19	autopsy	Rocka dill dill dill another boy get killed rocka dill dill dill sign on dem will rock a dill dill dill yes one time yes one time... Double S is the General. He say dem kings say, another man here come the funeral.
2021-06-23 03:36:44	autopsy	Sauvin, cool. Thats right 5.
2021-06-23 03:36:54	Sauvin	2.0.32, I think it was.
2021-06-23 03:36:57	autopsy	Slackware 2.2 kernel cool.
2021-06-23 03:37:19	autopsy	Yeah it was 2.0.32 probably.
2021-06-23 03:37:35	autopsy	ionface, I'm polling.
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2021-06-23 03:38:47	autopsy	ionface, of course you did mute uhm.. ad and adrian accidentally if you can't read but ionface, are you sure you even used Linux at first?
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2021-06-23 03:39:33	autopsy	ionfacee, I'm curious what kernel version or Linux did you use when you first used Linux at all.
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2021-06-23 03:40:16	autopsy	I'm just trying to get an idea of the rainbow of users we have in here active right now.
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2021-06-23 03:40:59	autopsy	Sauvin, remember up2date?
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2021-06-23 03:41:21	autopsy	bradd, how many floppies? 44?
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2021-06-23 03:42:10	Sauvin	Nope.
2021-06-23 03:42:11	autopsy	C'mon I'm barely 40 you guys should have me by a hair. Like we know what you been up to on the Lunix box chattin and perusing the C codes.
2021-06-23 03:42:46	bradd	many. 15 or so
2021-06-23 03:42:48	autopsy	Sauvvin, up2date was the initial RedHat updater utility it was a graphical tool.
2021-06-23 03:42:52	Sauvin	I'm 63 and have a head full of Swiss cheese.
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2021-06-23 03:43:06	autopsy	I love Swiss, Finlandia swiss.
2021-06-23 03:43:17	autopsy	63 aint bad.
2021-06-23 03:43:35	Sapphirus	he's old enough to be my Father
2021-06-23 03:43:43	Sauvin	That might be why I never knew about the updater. My Internet at the time was by phone line. I got my RH at CompUSA.
2021-06-23 03:43:49	autopsy	My father is 69.
2021-06-23 03:44:00	Sauvin	Yeah, who's your daddy? }:>
2021-06-23 03:44:07	daddy	me
2021-06-23 03:44:11	ionface	kernel 2.0 red hat ~4.2 for my first install
2021-06-23 03:44:24	autopsy	Oh no doubt, thats cool. Yeah uhh. I had internet in 1995 it was dialup phone line too.
2021-06-23 03:44:27	Sauvin	That goes back a ways.
2021-06-23 03:44:38	bradd	lol, I still have a box on my shelf for redhat linux 5.2
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2021-06-23 03:45:12	autopsy	daddy, why is RedHat red and the Sky is Blue, like why is this all Red and Blue now?
2021-06-23 03:45:34	autopsy	Nobody wins this game son.
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2021-06-23 03:45:50	Sauvin	Rawleigh scattering.
2021-06-23 03:46:13	-->	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 03:46:18	autopsy	I'm ok just yeah up2date was awesome then RedHat started to sell subscriptions to customers, and the up2date tool was used as a means to getting software support and updates.
2021-06-23 03:47:17	autopsy	braddm 15 floppies in Slackware 2.2?
2021-06-23 03:48:25	autopsy	Thats not enough to cover the alphabet but I imagine that if 1 floppy could hold a-d and then 2 would be e-g and then 3 would be h through j I can see 15 floppies as covering all of Slackware Haha.
2021-06-23 03:48:28	Sauvin	I can't remember how many floppies RH 5 was, but installing that thing took a whole weekend.
2021-06-23 03:48:29	bradd	there were a bunch. this was 30 or so years ago
2021-06-23 03:48:46	autopsy	Yep.
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2021-06-23 03:49:24	autopsy	bradd, well I have some good news, Slackware 1.2.1 kernel (The whole dist) was 44 floppies.
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2021-06-23 03:49:37	Sauvin	Jeebus.
2021-06-23 03:49:56	Sauvin	OS/2 was like that, too. A pile of floppies, and it, too, took a weekend to install.
2021-06-23 03:50:02	autopsy	Sauvin, yes, it took me a good 6 hours to install Slackware when I first got my book on Slackware Linux in 1995.
2021-06-23 03:50:24	autopsy	Then I had Xorg that wouldn't start properly.
2021-06-23 03:50:55	autopsy	I had minicom and pppd that I had to configu7re.
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2021-06-23 03:51:34	autopsy	OS/2 really.
2021-06-23 03:51:54	autopsy	So, when did GNU have a kernel did it?
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2021-06-23 03:58:26	Sauvin	Huh?
2021-06-23 03:58:44	autopsy	I guess GNU was what a collection of software written by Richard Stallman and his team... and then what what software platform did GNU originate on.... GNU Hurd?
2021-06-23 03:59:03	autopsy	What kernel was GNU software written on?
2021-06-23 03:59:25	cisco87	windows
2021-06-23 04:00:00	autopsy	Windows?
2021-06-23 04:00:05	DPA	Maybe unix?
2021-06-23 04:00:08	autopsy	Windows what Windows 3.1?
2021-06-23 04:00:35	autopsy	Unix. Ok... GNU means Generally Not Unix though.
2021-06-23 04:00:56	autopsy	Maybe it was Unix.
2021-06-23 04:01:23	autopsy	Got me. I'm unsure of where GNU software bundle originated.
2021-06-23 04:01:58	Sauvin	I don't know the details. I think Stallman wrote a pile of stuff against his Hurd, but Hurd didn't develop quickly enough, so when Torvalds released the kernel, Stallman grabbed it and adapted all his stuff to the Linux kernel.
2021-06-23 04:01:59	wigums	unix
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2021-06-23 04:02:47	DPA	Hurd, bsd, etc. are all unixy.
2021-06-23 04:03:04	autopsy	So Hurd.. then what is Hurd?
2021-06-23 04:03:09	ionface	https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd-and-linux.html
2021-06-23 04:03:14	Sauvin	bsd had direct UNIX lineage, so yea, it WOULD be "unixy". Not so sure about Hurd.
2021-06-23 04:03:27	Sauvin	Hurd is a kernel.
2021-06-23 04:03:28	ionface	they started it in 1990 and it was pretty terrible until like 1999
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2021-06-23 04:06:33	ionface	the constant architecture changes (specifically x86->AMD64) during those years made it possible to catch up and use some linux ideas I guess
2021-06-23 04:06:42	autopsy	I know Torvalds he was a Finnish student at the University and he wrote Linux kernel.... I know that.
2021-06-23 04:06:44	ionface	it's probably still bad, I don't use it
2021-06-23 04:07:03	autopsy	He wroite it for his Microprocessor class he was in.
2021-06-23 04:07:11	Sauvin	I've never even tried the hurd
2021-06-23 04:07:25	autopsy	I've never seen pictures of Hurd.
2021-06-23 04:07:34	Sauvin	As I recall, he did the development on a Minux machine. :D
2021-06-23 04:07:41	ionface	yeah didn't one of his professors yell at him because he made a Mach like kernel and monolithic kernels was supposedly a bad idea
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2021-06-23 04:08:29	autopsy	Yep. ionface yes he wrote it and released it to the public stating that his profesoor was not hsappy witg his work.
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2021-06-23 04:10:11	autopsy	So GNU stallman. And Stalling Man he was with the Hurd going nurd ware.
2021-06-23 04:10:34	autopsy	Is he really biting his toenails with his bare teeth?
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2021-06-23 04:10:52	ionface	https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/running/virtualbox.html
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2021-06-23 04:13:16	autopsy	ionface, yeah but where the hell do I get a Hurd kernel image?
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2021-06-23 04:13:29	ionface	that debian-hurd iso I think
2021-06-23 04:13:38	autopsy	Slackware 1.2.1 had bare.i which was good.
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2021-06-23 04:17:06	varaindemian	what can I use to get rind of the lockscreen? I am already root
2021-06-23 04:17:09	<--	fef (~thedawn@user/thedawn) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-23 04:17:52	autopsy	Burning up the phone lines alright alright.... who has the link to the machines online on the website that has virtual machines displayed over http and you can use for free?
2021-06-23 04:18:08	varaindemian	loginctl can help?
2021-06-23 04:18:21	ionface	varaindemian, pstree and find that xlock or whatever
2021-06-23 04:18:22	autopsy	varaindemian, the lock screen? Get rid of it like what context?
2021-06-23 04:18:34	autopsy	xlockmore
2021-06-23 04:18:42	ionface	you want to change the user password?
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2021-06-23 04:19:17	autopsy	Yeah what rid off meaning you want to disable it, just chmod 000 the screen lock process.
2021-06-23 04:19:23	autopsy	Then killall processname
2021-06-23 04:19:39	varaindemian	autopsy I am on gnome
2021-06-23 04:19:50	ionface	varaindemian, do you have a root shell?
2021-06-23 04:19:50	autopsy	varaindemian, ok hold on.
2021-06-23 04:19:51	varaindemian	is it gsd-screensaver?
2021-06-23 04:20:06	varaindemian	ionface yes
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2021-06-23 04:20:33	paulcarroty	varaindemian: type `user` in gnome search input
2021-06-23 04:20:59	varaindemian	in gnome search input?
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2021-06-23 04:21:19	paulcarroty	yep
2021-06-23 04:21:32	varaindemian	I want to bypass it
2021-06-23 04:21:35	varaindemian	and see the desktop
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2021-06-23 04:21:43	paulcarroty	"Type to search"
2021-06-23 04:21:48	paulcarroty	literally
2021-06-23 04:22:36	paulcarroty	will show up after "Windows" button click
2021-06-23 04:22:39	varaindemian	paulcarroty I only have shell
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2021-06-23 04:23:04	varaindemian	I don't see anything except for the lockscreen
2021-06-23 04:23:12	varaindemian	I am connected via ssh
2021-06-23 04:24:05	varaindemian	https://askubuntu.com/questions/341014/unlock-login-screen-using-command-line
2021-06-23 04:24:11	varaindemian	this is what I am trying to do bascially
2021-06-23 04:24:25	autopsy	varaindemian, theres gsd-screensaver-proxy there's gjs org.gnome.Screensaver and theres gnome-session-ctl-proxy.
2021-06-23 04:24:31	<--	lsrtl (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 04:24:46	varaindemian	autopsy in pstree?
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2021-06-23 04:25:07	autopsy	varaindemian, I'm looking at ps ax.
2021-06-23 04:25:11	ionface	is changing the password out of the question?
2021-06-23 04:25:20	varaindemian	I am root
2021-06-23 04:25:26	ionface	the user's password
2021-06-23 04:25:44	varaindemian	I am not interested in changing pass
2021-06-23 04:25:54	varaindemian	just to be logged in
2021-06-23 04:26:11	varaindemian	and get rid of that lockscreen and see the desktop
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2021-06-23 04:26:49	ionface	you can use the new password on the screensaver
2021-06-23 04:27:05	autopsy	varaindemian, use ssh -Y user@host then login and run: gnome-settings
2021-06-23 04:27:06	ionface	then you don't have to kill processes or poke settings
2021-06-23 04:27:27	varaindemian	`killall gsd-screensaver` -> gsd-screensaver: no process found
2021-06-23 04:27:48	autopsy	Its gsd-screensaver-proxy
2021-06-23 04:27:54	<--	gunix (~gunix@cyberghost-baratiei.mediasat.ro) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-23 04:28:08	ionface	ps aux or pstree
2021-06-23 04:28:25	<--	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-23 04:29:52	autopsy	varaindemian, try kill -HUP gnome-session-binary (But use the PID of gnome-0session-0binary)
2021-06-23 04:30:13	<--	CoderBR_000 (~Coder_000@191.35.80.149) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-23 04:30:14	varaindemian	autopsy https://pastebin.com/RyDMxWAn
2021-06-23 04:30:22	<--	Maturion (~Maturion@p200300ede7352a0021817a7681ab704b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-23 04:31:15	varaindemian	autopsy this? gdm       1194  0.0  0.1 560496 14156 tty1     Sl+  iun13   0:00 /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-binary --auto
2021-06-23 04:31:43	autopsy	varaindemian, no. Dude3 p[ost your ps ax output
2021-06-23 04:31:49	autopsy	Not pstree
2021-06-23 04:32:08	<--	lsrtl (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-23 04:32:55	autopsy	ps tree truncates process names.
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2021-06-23 04:32:57	autopsy	ps ax
2021-06-23 04:33:07	autopsy	ps ax lists the process name and the PID.
2021-06-23 04:33:28	varaindemian	autopsy https://pastebin.com/Qf8jGBWm
2021-06-23 04:34:31	ionface	try: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.screensaver lock-enabled false
2021-06-23 04:34:33	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:34:49	ionface	not sure if that changes the currently running screen lock
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2021-06-23 04:35:17	varaindemian	ionface it doesn;t
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2021-06-23 04:36:22	autopsy	varaindemian, kill -HUP 31237
2021-06-23 04:36:30	-->	gareppa (~gareppa@user/gareppa) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:36:36	autopsy	varaindemian, then kill -15 31237
2021-06-23 04:36:51	varaindemian	-15
2021-06-23 04:36:51	varaindemian	?
2021-06-23 04:37:17	<--	gareppa (~gareppa@user/gareppa) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 04:37:31	autopsy	varaindemian, -15 is SIGTERM
2021-06-23 04:37:34	varaindemian	-bash: kill: (31237) - No such process
2021-06-23 04:37:40	treefrob	default, innit?
2021-06-23 04:38:07	ionface	and this: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.idle-activation-enabled false
2021-06-23 04:38:09	varaindemian	kill -HUP 31237 worked
2021-06-23 04:38:12	autopsy	varaindemian, well thats just awful, becauswe your ps ax output clearly shows gsd-screensaver-proxy
2021-06-23 04:38:16	<--	Tsynk (~VoinTsynk@64-130-186-155.pool.dsl.scrtc.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 04:38:19	varaindemian	but I am stille on the lockscreen
2021-06-23 04:38:33	autopsy	varaindemian, try killall -9 gsd-screensaver-proxy
2021-06-23 04:38:39	ionface	wait a sec
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2021-06-23 04:41:25	varaindemian	ionface yes?
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2021-06-23 04:42:22	ionface	killall -9s are kind of overkill
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2021-06-23 04:43:10	autopsy	Yes but he said get rid of it.
2021-06-23 04:43:22	autopsy	I know what I'm doing.
2021-06-23 04:43:41	varaindemian	Unlock login screen using command line
2021-06-23 04:43:46	varaindemian	-> and seeing the desktop
2021-06-23 04:43:50	varaindemian	that's all
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2021-06-23 04:44:32	autopsy	varaindemian, try chmod 000 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-screensaver-proxy then also killall -15 gsd-screensaver-proxy
2021-06-23 04:45:50	-->	KindOne (kindone@user/kindone) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:45:55	autopsy	You need to change the mode on it to not execute then also HUP or TERM the process.
2021-06-23 04:46:14	-->	hi_im_kent (~hi_im_ken@223.18.255.249) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:46:29	autopsy	Hi Kindone, Hi Kent.
2021-06-23 04:46:39	autopsy	Hi tent Hi bent.
2021-06-23 04:46:46	autopsy	Hi cone Hi foam.
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2021-06-23 04:47:03	autopsy	Hi everbody my names clown. Whats your name little one?
2021-06-23 04:47:21	e1	o.O
2021-06-23 04:47:47	fling	What is the app for editing xlsx in terminal?
2021-06-23 04:48:02	autopsy	xlsx-editor
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2021-06-23 04:50:09	autopsy	fling, in the terminal they are called utilities not apps.
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2021-06-23 04:50:33	autopsy	fling and SMS speak is not allowed here, so exapnd app next time you use it to application.
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2021-06-23 04:51:03	autopsy	Aint that right Sauvin... Cmon.
2021-06-23 04:51:16	-->	simplicio (~simplicio@2001:b07:ad4:844e:45f3:d3ae:5ffc:21ad) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:51:27	DLange	autopsy: can you stop it? You are quite annoying atm. And yes atm is not expanded.
2021-06-23 04:51:33	autopsy	ionface, why you so scared of kill -9?
2021-06-23 04:51:35	ionface	varaindemian, did you kill your screensaver finally?
2021-06-23 04:51:41	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-23 04:51:52	ionface	it's bad practice, and he already said sighup worked
2021-06-23 04:52:10	-->	bluenode (~bluenode@23.108.99.122) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:52:13	autopsy	SIGHUP did worked. I knowed that he said that.
2021-06-23 04:52:43	<--	ballerburg9005 (~ich@dslb-002-202-018-232.002.202.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-23 04:53:07	autopsy	Yes DLange I'll stop what it is I'm doing... because you know people are annoying sometimes.
2021-06-23 04:53:12	-->	kish` (~aqua@user/aqua) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:53:51	ionface	yeah, stop calling out the lurkers my man -_-
2021-06-23 04:54:44	-->	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:54:59	autopsy	My shower has a flower pot full of dirt and rocks turned upside down, 15 water bottles of distilled H2O. A mop. A broom with a dustpan, in it is also a stuffed animal. 6 socks and some razors.
2021-06-23 04:55:27	ionface	but needing kill -9 basically means you have a bad process and should think about how to replace that binary, and it causes zombies and stuff sometimes, I avoid it
2021-06-23 04:55:49	DLange	autopsy: second and last warning
2021-06-23 04:56:11	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-23 04:56:58	Sauvin	autopsy, why don't you go terrorise an off-topic channel?
2021-06-23 04:57:03	Sauvin	Fewer rules!
2021-06-23 04:57:57	-->	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 04:58:32	autopsy	I'm sincerely amazed at the level of contempt the guys here have for me. DLange can I still talk about Linux though?
2021-06-23 04:58:45	autopsy	Im serious question.
2021-06-23 04:58:50	<--	Nefertari (~unscripte@user/unscripted) has quit (Quit: Quitz)
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2021-06-23 04:59:08	autopsy	I'll quit typing at all if you want me to really.
2021-06-23 04:59:10	DLange	sure, as long as you stop your Twitter-talking-to-yourself random noise, you can stay here
2021-06-23 04:59:20	DLange	but you are close to getting shown the door. Very close.
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2021-06-23 05:00:11	oops	i set up primary dns server on my vps according ubuntu server guide (20.04) strictly, after configuring completion , i restart bind9 service , the syslog display all the zone which i set loaded, then i using "dig -x 127.0.0.1" , i find the server ip is still "127.0.0.1#53," and it's not my server ip , who would like to help me to view where have errors, https://paste.centos.org/view/6053cce0
2021-06-23 05:00:13	-->	curdlesnoot (~curdlesno@2a03:1b20:1:f410::a17d) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 05:01:00	ionface	have a link to that guide?
2021-06-23 05:03:07	DLange	-x does reverse lookup, so it would be looking for 1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa
2021-06-23 05:03:16	oops	ionface: the link is https://assets.ubuntu.com/v1/f954307f-ubuntu-server-guide.pdf
2021-06-23 05:04:17	<--	zoey (~zoey@2a02:8084:a080:9e00:3fae:994c:3fdc:274d) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-23 05:04:40	autopsy	oops, guy.. 127.0.0.1:#53 is correct for DNS.
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2021-06-23 05:05:26	oops	autopsy: how to check i bind my domain to my ip successfully
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2021-06-23 05:06:11	autopsy	Reverse lookups to 127.0.0.1 should only be answered by 127.0.0.1 thats in the docs of the DNS protocol itself.
2021-06-23 05:06:32	ionface	oops, named-checkconf #are there any errors?
2021-06-23 05:07:28	<--	foozle (~foozle@2001-b011-c001-54d9-5942-3c17-4974-853d.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 05:07:30	autopsy	oops, bind is a server protocol and daemon.
2021-06-23 05:07:58	ionface	and does the forward not work? like autopsy said, I don't think dig will tell you anything else from the host
2021-06-23 05:08:17	oops	ionface: no error happed including zone check and syslog display all zone loaded
2021-06-23 05:09:20	autopsy	oops, to give you a better idea of what you are doing, try : dig liveprojects.info
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2021-06-23 05:11:05	ionface	and I'm not sure about dig -x, but there's usually an order of operations for DNS lookups, hosts file possibly being touched here
2021-06-23 05:11:20	oops	autopsy: the result of dig : https://paste.centos.org/view/e8f47614,
2021-06-23 05:11:33	-->	koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 05:11:36	autopsy	Oh yeah I forgot about /etc/hosts but that is almost irrelevant
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2021-06-23 05:13:35	autopsy	oops, it is working properly alreaqdy: liveprojects.info.      3599    IN      A       217.160.0.27 Thats your answer ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53) thats your DNS query respondant server its fine.
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2021-06-23 05:14:18	autopsy	oops, now try: dig -x liveprojects.info
2021-06-23 05:15:48	autopsy	Clearly you're running dig from the bind9 server I know this already.
2021-06-23 05:16:00	oops	autopsy: https://paste.centos.org/view/1197dbb0
2021-06-23 05:16:00	autopsy	liveprojects.info is my host
2021-06-23 05:16:46	autopsy	oops, ok. So. Queries: 1 Answers: 0
2021-06-23 05:17:05	ionface	yeah, /etc/resolv.conf should be pointing at 127.0.0.53
2021-06-23 05:17:15	foton	join #solaris
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2021-06-23 05:17:47	autopsy	ionface, I believe you are correct.
2021-06-23 05:17:55	autopsy	ionface, or 127.0.0.1
2021-06-23 05:17:58	oops	autopsy: i am completely confused, do you mean i bind my server ip and domain successfully?
2021-06-23 05:18:25	ionface	this guide they're using: "/etc/resolv .conf should be pointing at 127.0.0.53"
2021-06-23 05:19:01	-->	koo555 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 05:19:08	autopsy	oops, post your contents of /etc/resolv.conf
2021-06-23 05:19:41	autopsy	oops, we'll see.  Hold on.
2021-06-23 05:19:58	oops	autopsy: only two line "nameserver 127.0.0.53
2021-06-23 05:19:59	oops	options edns0 trust-ad
2021-06-23 05:19:59	oops	"
2021-06-23 05:20:23	autopsy	oops, ok also put under nameserver line nameserver 127.0.0.1
2021-06-23 05:20:41	autopsy	Then do a dig of say google.com and a dig -x of google.com
2021-06-23 05:21:24	autopsy	DNS takes time to propagate too so rememeber that.
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2021-06-23 05:22:09	autopsy	DNS is supser easy to set up.
2021-06-23 05:22:27	DPA	Loopback is 127/8, but most things usually use 127.0.0.1 per default. But having something else for the other 3 numbers can be really nice for if you want different things listening locally on the same ports.
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2021-06-23 05:25:10	autopsy	DPA, what could he possibly want to be listeining to or on rather?
2021-06-23 05:25:11	oops	autopsy: this is result of "dig -x google.com" : https://paste.centos.org/view/eeab899f
2021-06-23 05:26:21	autopsy	oops, ok run: nmap 127.0.0.53
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2021-06-23 05:27:19	autopsy	ooops, your dig of liveprojects.info looked good, now you need to what? Tell us more about what you are needing to do.
2021-06-23 05:27:28	autopsy	oops, but run nmap 127.0.0.53
2021-06-23 05:27:53	DPA	Always listen on the address you want to connect to, as long as they match, it's probably fine.
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2021-06-23 05:28:20	oops	autopsy: i have done it ,
2021-06-23 05:28:21	autopsy	DPA, yes I would agree.
2021-06-23 05:28:27	autopsy	oops, and?
2021-06-23 05:28:35	autopsy	Or shall I say oops?
2021-06-23 05:29:38	akik	hups
2021-06-23 05:29:52	autopsy	oops, are you trying to pro0vide DNS server capability to the network, or are you just trying to provide DNS for a local LAN subnet group?
2021-06-23 05:29:52	oops	https://paste.centos.org/view/8fc246d3
2021-06-23 05:30:45	<--	[a] (~a]@50.230.7.2) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-23 05:30:46	autopsy	oops, ok you need to also open 53 UDP.
2021-06-23 05:31:07	oops	autopsy: i am totally fool, i hope to build a website , so i need a domain connect with my server ip , then i set up with bind9
2021-06-23 05:31:12	autopsy	oops, thats where you're failing I know it for a fact.
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2021-06-23 05:31:38	autopsy	oops, you have a website name a domain name. Yes?
2021-06-23 05:31:51	autopsy	Your IP address is what?
2021-06-23 05:31:54	DLange	oops: you set that reverse IP at the hoster (so AliCloud in your case)
2021-06-23 05:32:07	DLange	no need to run bind yourself, also not helpful for this use case
2021-06-23 05:32:22	oops	the port 53 close , i open it now
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2021-06-23 05:32:26	autopsy	Ok Yeah Dlange is on it.
2021-06-23 05:32:47	-->	cadmio (~gidna@151.25.147.48) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 05:32:51	cadmio	Hello
2021-06-23 05:33:07	cadmio	I need the name of this compound https://i.imgur.com/LeBPhVll.png
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2021-06-23 05:33:35	DLange	cadmio: and what does that have to do with Linux?
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2021-06-23 05:34:42	autopsy	cadmio, dimethylamine Hydrochloride
2021-06-23 05:35:04	bewees	hi, is there a package manager which implements a distributed blockchain to verify the hash of each package with it? as proposed here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9219374
2021-06-23 05:36:04	autopsy	bewees, explain what a distributed blockchain is.
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2021-06-23 05:36:54	bewees	right now we have to trust on the gpg key of the repository, which can be a single point of failure. Anybody who has access to the key can distinguishly slip a fake hash list to the client host
2021-06-23 05:37:02	autopsy	cadmio, or methylamine chloride whichever way you want to split it.
2021-06-23 05:37:19	bewees	autopsy: sorry i meant decentralized blockchain
2021-06-23 05:37:57	cadmio	it should be a (2,4-Diaminotoluene) chloride salt
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2021-06-23 05:38:17	autopsy	bewees, does DNF YUM RPM not conform to the hash check algorithym as a decventralized object?
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2021-06-23 05:38:38	DLange	cadmio: and again, what does that have to do with the channel topic?
2021-06-23 05:38:47	autopsy	My answer would be DNF YUM RPM. createrepo RPM repository like Fedora uses.
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2021-06-23 05:39:19	oops	autopsy:my server is is "104.168.136.44". i hope to provide dns server capability to the network
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2021-06-23 05:39:28	bewees	autopsy: let me read up on DNF YUM RPM to understand what you mean by decentralized object
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2021-06-23 05:39:56	autopsy	It has a GPG key that is provided with the repository RPM file that is installed to the machine locally, then the DNF downloads a package and it has a hash, that is checked against the GPG key of the host machine.
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2021-06-23 05:41:06	autopsy	bewees, RedHat Fedora is exactly what you are describing as to what you are requesting, it is not however susceptible to a single point of failure like you described.
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2021-06-23 05:41:45	oops	DLange: AliCould can bind my server ip to domain , but i hope build by myself
2021-06-23 05:43:25	autopsy	bewees, looko at createrepo rpmbuild rpm srpm dnf yum and the structure of any RPM repository mirror.
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2021-06-23 05:43:37	bewees	autopsy: isn't the public GPG key usually already installed on my system before I issue DNF
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2021-06-23 05:44:15	autopsy	bewees, not if you don't have fedora-release installed.
2021-06-23 05:44:19	bewees	sure
2021-06-23 05:44:23	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-23 05:44:27	bewees	let me recap
2021-06-23 05:44:51	autopsy	That has fedora-stock.repo and then also the GPG key installed but that is for base.
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2021-06-23 05:45:20	autopsy	updates has another key.
2021-06-23 05:45:29	autopsy	rawhide has yet another yek.
2021-06-23 05:45:37	bewees	autopsy: the DNF downloads a package and it is verified with the public repo GPG key, but what if the attacker has the private GPG key and can slip a package to the client host?
2021-06-23 05:46:20	bewees	because the private gpg key can encrypt the hash list fine and it will be verified by the local public repo gpg key
2021-06-23 05:46:23	autopsy	That would be something root could do, but nobody else.
2021-06-23 05:46:31	bewees	yes
2021-06-23 05:46:34	autopsy	Ok.
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2021-06-23 05:46:52	bewees	so in this situation a decentralized blockchain containing the hashes would also prevent that case?
2021-06-23 05:46:53	autopsy	I'm gathering the idea what else?
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2021-06-23 05:47:04	autopsy	Uh.
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2021-06-23 05:47:19	autopsy	Yes what is a decentralized blockchain?
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2021-06-23 05:48:08	bewees	where every built is having a transaction containing the hashes for it, in which case the host client downloads the blockchain and verifies if the hashes from the downloaded package match
2021-06-23 05:48:17	bewees	every package built*
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2021-06-23 05:49:02	autopsy	Every package in Fedora repositories is signed by a key. That key is only available to anybody ywho has the package installed that contains the key.
2021-06-23 05:49:23	autopsy	bewees, ok maybe I'm misunderstanding.
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2021-06-23 05:50:26	bewees	autopsy: i will try to figure out a way to efficiently double check the hashes from another source, so I can at least double check the hashes and avoid a single point of failure
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2021-06-23 05:51:29	bewees	just downloading the packages from whatever package manager let it work out its own verification process, and then using a script to double check the package hashes from another source, then install
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2021-06-23 05:54:03	autopsy	bewees, yes thats a good plan. Thats exactly what I would do but you want to keep a private copy of the package hashes and the keys seperate from the outside world. You want nobody to be able to infiltrate that server and protect that repository metadata with anything something simple like another sha512sum and another package manifecst.
2021-06-23 05:54:05	bewees	this attack would require access to root and access to the private key; but double checking the hashes from another mirror will make this attack harder, as the attacker would need to control all those systems and make sure only my host gets the modified package. as a wide package attack would immediately be noticable by the community, this attack works only individually
2021-06-23 05:54:22	bewees	autopsy: yeah
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2021-06-23 05:55:10	autopsy	bewees, yes the attacker would need to occupy mirrors worldwide with his faulty package and his fucked up keys.
2021-06-23 05:55:44	autopsy	Well. Farted on key.
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2021-06-23 05:56:18	bewees	ok, looking into this later, thank you! gonna go back to work
2021-06-23 05:56:24	autopsy	bewees, because really he wouldn't need to check his own key against his own faulty packages.
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2021-06-23 05:57:11	autopsy	Ok later bewees check out RedHat Fedora DNF RPM YUM createrepo and the structure of the respository mirrors in the metadata directories it is what you want I'm sure.
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2021-06-23 05:59:42	autopsy	So factually with access to your own mirror that is synced (or not) against kernel.org for example, and then checked against rpm.pbone.net for example, and then hashed against the fedoraproject.org mirror metadtaaa it willl be impossible to provide a bad package or a bad key either one.
2021-06-23 06:00:23	autopsy	I say impossible what do you say Dlange?
2021-06-23 06:00:45	de-facto	ssh identityfile is that the public key (e.g. id_rsa.pub) or private key (e.g. (id_rsa)?
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2021-06-23 06:01:28	autopsy	Ident know what is a public key for if you only have no door?
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2021-06-23 06:03:14	de-facto	it does not really work "sign_and_send_pubkey: signing failed: agent refused operation"
2021-06-23 06:04:21	autopsy	de-facto, so you have a door, and behind that door is an agent that doesn't want to operate so much for co-operate.
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2021-06-23 06:06:59	de-facto	autopsy, in ~/.ssh/config the IdentityFile ~/.ssh/id_rsa<???>  is that a public or private key?
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2021-06-23 06:09:24	autopsy	de-facto, if its ~/.ssh/ then the IdentifyFile is the hosts key fingerprint.
2021-06-23 06:09:24	curdlesnoot	private (with what else could one's identity be proven?)
2021-06-23 06:09:58	de-facto	what fingerprint?
2021-06-23 06:10:00	autopsy	Or not. MNaybe ~/.ssh is not the client conifg directory anywmaore?
2021-06-23 06:10:08	de-facto	i think its the private key
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2021-06-23 06:10:30	autopsy	The key fingerprint that the public key has.
2021-06-23 06:11:17	autopsy	Are we talking about a client or a server thats what I'm confused about.
2021-06-23 06:11:19	curdlesnoot	no.
2021-06-23 06:11:41	de-facto	i am talking about the client .ssh/config
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2021-06-23 06:13:41	curdlesnoot	IdentityFile is an ssh_config(5) directive, therefore it's ssh (not sshd).
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2021-06-23 06:17:34	jmd	Sometimes (but not always) when I do "ip address add/change/replace ...." I get a wierd error like 'Either "local" is a duplicate or "enps0531d" is a garbage'.  What does this mean? and why does it occur
2021-06-23 06:17:34	jmd	only sometimes?
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2021-06-23 06:18:08	SkunkyLaptop	jmd: what ar eyou doing that requires you to be chaning your ip address?
2021-06-23 06:18:36	jmd	SkunkyLaptop: Does that make a difference?
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2021-06-23 06:19:01	SkunkyLaptop	jmd: quite possibly.
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2021-06-23 06:20:18	jmd	I cannot imaging that the kernel reads the user's mind to infer his/her intentions and then adjusts the output messages accordingly.  But since you ask I wasn't chaning my ip address, I was adding a new one.
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2021-06-23 06:21:52	lautre[m]	If add, it's #: ip a a
2021-06-23 06:22:32	jmd	Correct.  Or in full "ip address add ..."
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2021-06-23 06:23:01	lautre[m]	You should write the command you try. Without your IP
2021-06-23 06:23:31	lautre[m]	And, #: ip a
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2021-06-23 06:23:49	jmd	lautre[m]: I had the problem yesterday:  Let me see if I can find it in my bash history ....
2021-06-23 06:24:15	jmd	Yep.  Here it is:
2021-06-23 06:24:19	lautre[m]	I can't help more
2021-06-23 06:24:26	jmd	ip address add 192.168.0.1/24 enp0s31f6
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2021-06-23 06:25:01	jmd	and the exact error message was:
2021-06-23 06:25:11	jmd	Error: either "local" is duplicate, or "enp0s31f6" is a garbage.
2021-06-23 06:25:19	lautre[m]	I always have problems to use the command. But, it's the same order than show with ip a
2021-06-23 06:26:03	lautre[m]	So, ip a will help you
2021-06-23 06:26:34	jmd	That merely gives a list of the current assigned addresses.
2021-06-23 06:27:29	lautre[m]	I'm not on my computer. May be "dev" word  is missing
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2021-06-23 06:27:53	lautre[m]	I'm always stuck like you
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2021-06-23 06:31:32	selckin	so if you check the 'man ip-address'
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2021-06-23 06:32:20	selckin	the dev part is required, or it defaults to 'local'
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2021-06-23 06:42:58	Masklin_Gurder	Can you tell gnu parallel to only do X amounts of processes in parallel?
2021-06-23 06:43:13	Masklin_Gurder	That was bad English but I think you understand. :D
2021-06-23 06:43:24	selckin	yes
2021-06-23 06:43:43	Masklin_Gurder	selckin: How?
2021-06-23 06:43:57	Masklin_Gurder	I guess it's in the docs but historically it's difficult to find useful stuff in their docs
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2021-06-23 06:44:27	selckin	manual says -P
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2021-06-23 06:45:18	lessshaste	does anyone know a good way to add some words to the bottom of a video (on linux)?
2021-06-23 06:45:43	CalimeroTeknik	it's the same way as on any and every other kernel
2021-06-23 06:45:48	Masklin_Gurder	selckin: My --help section says '-j n'
2021-06-23 06:46:00	selckin	Masklin_Gurder: go for it
2021-06-23 06:46:34	CalimeroTeknik	lessshaste, unrelated to linux — you could use subtitle incrustation with ffmpeg (works on freeBSD, windows, haiku, etc)
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2021-06-23 06:46:56	CalimeroTeknik	am I misinterpreting this channel's name/topic perhaps?
2021-06-23 06:46:56	paulcarroty	kdenlive, openshot
2021-06-23 06:47:15	lessshaste	paulcarroty, thanks! I didn't know they could do this
2021-06-23 06:47:20	lessshaste	CalimeroTeknik, sounds tricky
2021-06-23 06:47:33	CalimeroTeknik	only sounds
2021-06-23 06:47:59	lessshaste	CalimeroTeknik, is this from the command line?
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2021-06-23 06:48:42	CalimeroTeknik	I use aegisub to design captions then optionally re-render the video with subtitles incrusted using ffmpeg
2021-06-23 06:48:48	CalimeroTeknik	but usually I keep soft subs
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2021-06-23 06:49:12	CalimeroTeknik	it could be all done from the command line if you wish to, yes
2021-06-23 06:49:16	CalimeroTeknik	not necessarily though
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2021-06-23 06:50:03	CalimeroTeknik	I tend to prefer using WYSIWYG tools when I need to place captions on video, rather than typing the code for the SSA subtitles
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2021-06-23 06:50:58	lessshaste	CalimeroTeknik, which do you use?
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2021-06-23 06:58:31	CoderBR_000	~is
2021-06-23 06:59:14	jjakob	lessshaste: kdenlive ?
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2021-06-23 06:59:40	lessshaste	jjakob, thanks. I will try that
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2021-06-23 07:04:09	akik	autopsy_: i'm now in ubuntu 20.04 on this optimus laptop and using nvidia-driver-390. seems to work much better
2021-06-23 07:04:15	CoderBR_000	[Search(~str,kdenlive)]
2021-06-23 07:04:26	CoderBR_000	[Search(~str,kdenlive ?)]
2021-06-23 07:04:42	CoderBR_000	[Search(~str,msg)]
2021-06-23 07:04:50	CoderBR_000	sorry
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2021-06-23 07:06:46	akik	it was possible to install ubuntu on the same btrfs filesystem that fedora was installed, just on different btrfs subvolumes
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2021-06-23 07:17:10	gtlsgamr	Heyo
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2021-06-23 07:28:39	PlanckLort	Hello! I have a driver with a GPIO triggered interrupt which schedules a workqueue task (in a workqueue created with the flag WQ_HIGHPRI) in the workfunction a SPI message is called. This happens at a frequency of 2 kHz. My issue is that when measuring the time between the IRQ and when SPI transfer has finished I sometimes get a time of 2 or more milliseconds which is to slow for 2 kHz. I need some
2021-06-23 07:28:41	PlanckLort	ideas on how to decrease the time between the IRQ and for the workqueue function to start executing, any help is appreciated! :)
2021-06-23 07:28:56	lunario_	any suggestions on how to automate clicking on the login button of a public wifi start page in a browser (no matter which browser, whichever works most easily)? The login site needs JS otherwise I would use a bash script ofc
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2021-06-23 07:29:26	gtlsgamr	lunario_: Could you try and explain more clearly what you want to do?
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2021-06-23 07:29:38	akik	PlanckLort: preempt_rt didn't work out?
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2021-06-23 07:31:03	peetaur	PlanckLort: are you using a realtime kernel?
2021-06-23 07:31:50	PlanckLort	akik: I've tried it before it did not help me. Although I only tried that in a user space program, i recently moved to kernel space with a driver. I will try it
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2021-06-23 07:34:09	akik	PlanckLort: it's used with user space programs too
2021-06-23 07:34:29	akik	there's configuration that you can put into /etc/security/limits.d/
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2021-06-23 07:35:50	PlanckLort	akik: Yes that was how I used it before but it barley made a difference
2021-06-23 07:35:55	PlanckLort	if any at all
2021-06-23 07:36:20	PlanckLort	akik: Hmm, what type of configuration is that?
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2021-06-23 07:37:22	akik	PlanckLort: i can only show what i have for audio config
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2021-06-23 07:37:52	akik	but i guess it's similar
2021-06-23 07:37:53	akik	@audio   -  rtprio     95
2021-06-23 07:37:53	akik	@audio   -  memlock    unlimited
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2021-06-23 07:42:04	akik	that config is installed also with the lowlatency kernel in ubuntu when installing jackd2
2021-06-23 07:42:08	lacroix	PlanckLort: a gpio isn't a pwm *wink*
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2021-06-23 07:44:25	lacroix	PlanckLort, usually preempt-rt is the best way to address this. You may also go going the ipipe/xenomai if you need more solid realtime.
2021-06-23 07:44:44	lacroix	Did you try plain polling?
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2021-06-23 07:47:00	PlanckLort	I'm currently trying the rt kernel again but are struggling with modprobing the module, for some reason it doesn't believe it exit even though I have moved it to the correct directory. I have tried polling in userspace
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2021-06-23 07:49:26	lunario_	gtlsgamr: i want to automatically connect a raspberry pi to a public wifi but the wifi requires an authentication via a website, where you just click on "Login"
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2021-06-23 07:52:19	autopsy	Hey can somebody check the last server parts joins quits exists and tell me what happenned to autopsy up to about 5 minutes ago.... wass it a ping timeout?
2021-06-23 07:52:25	peetaur	lunario_: pastebin that login page's html
2021-06-23 07:53:33	autopsy	My hexchat client was disconnected showing no user list and showing me disconnected from any channel, but the channel was stilll scrolling user input to the screen in the damn channel window.
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2021-06-23 07:55:13	selckin	2 ping timeouts, 1 normal exit
2021-06-23 07:55:13	lunario_	https://termbin.com/yhoi
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2021-06-23 07:55:17	lunario_	^peetaur
2021-06-23 07:55:25	lunario_	The link one needs to click on says "Anmelden"
2021-06-23 07:55:26	autopsy	Erus_Iluvatar, thank you.
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2021-06-23 07:56:02	Erus_Iluvatar	NP
2021-06-23 07:56:07	autopsy	14 seconds.
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2021-06-23 07:58:36	lacroix	PlanckLort, Did you build the module for the preempt-rt?
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2021-06-23 08:00:52	peetaur	lunario_: ok maybe something like this would work:   curl "${url}" -d "buttonClicked=4&redirect_url=&err_flag=0&info_flag=0&info_msg=0&Submit=Anmelden"
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2021-06-23 08:01:31	peetaur	lunario_: in the  loadAction() ... it is using the query string to change the action to whatever switch_url says ....and I don't know the value of that. So I'm assuming blank is fine.
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2021-06-23 08:02:30	lunario_	peetaur: thanks, will try! if i use w3m or some similar browser to login, would i add the "buttonClicked..." part to the captive portal's url?
2021-06-23 08:03:02	peetaur	if action is blank then the same url as the login page is used... if action is "something" then it would be like   "${url}/something"
2021-06-23 08:03:14	peetaur	lunario_: the onClick sets buttonClicked=4 so I think you need that
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2021-06-23 08:09:03	autopsy	No. WRong.
2021-06-23 08:09:22	autopsy	URL is HTTP URL CLICKED is button 4.
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2021-06-23 08:11:45	autopsy	ok ok i stop.
2021-06-23 08:11:55	peetaur	error on line 1: trinary operator expected
2021-06-23 08:11:56	DLange	good choice, autopsy. Good choice!
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2021-06-23 08:29:52	autopsy	[bash]: 2 is not equal to 2 + 1 but 3 is
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2021-06-23 08:30:20	PlanckLort	lacroix: Yes
2021-06-23 08:30:47	kubast2	Does "nosmp" option/compiling kernel with smp off
2021-06-23 08:30:58	kubast2	have any impact on a single core vms/machines performance?
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2021-06-23 08:31:31	kubast2	Or is nosmp applied automaticaly when core count is one and it doesn't matter at all
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2021-06-23 08:32:57	autopsy	SMP is the main thread function of the Linux kernel proper. One core means that the machine operates with a single processor to base all of its resources from the board, SMP merely means that the IRQ balancing and process threads are distributed amongst multiple processors and it has no effect.
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2021-06-23 08:34:07	autopsy	You can use 'nosmp' on a multiple processor machine and it'll do the same through the ACPI and APIC.
2021-06-23 08:34:20	autopsy	LAPIC.
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2021-06-23 08:38:55	autopsy	I nkoiw how you guys like to fragment your thoughts and so I thought I'd explain something in detail ju7st the same.
2021-06-23 08:39:40	autopsy	Irregardless of the language I speak fluently I cannot seem to grasp a external outsider reciever's view on what I'm saying meaning that nothing I said makes sense.
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2021-06-23 08:40:14	CoderBR_000	>>
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2021-06-23 08:40:26	autopsy	Until I learn to percieve what the reciever is experiencing I  then can explain something that takes a half wit to do properly.
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2021-06-23 08:42:32	immibis	that is probably correct
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2021-06-23 08:44:37	autopsy	Bear with me here, see.. when you guys have questions, make them in such a way that details what it is that you are trying to do. (or accomplish) rather than what you are used to thinkiong in your mind (or your brain) and relqay that information accordingly in theh porperly order (or sequence)
2021-06-23 08:44:40	<--	lsrtl (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 08:45:20	autopsy	Then we may come to an understanding. (or an agreement)
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2021-06-23 08:46:33	autopsy	Now. For the guys here over 25 with all that expertise (No not you not talking about you now hold on) try to explain the thing in the way that you would try to teach a student.
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2021-06-23 08:46:37	CoderBR_000	hello
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2021-06-23 08:47:01	PlanckLort	lacroix: Got the module to work. It was probably some missing symbols as depmod solved that issue. However RT-linux was not any improvement unfortunatly
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2021-06-23 08:47:21	PlanckLort	might actually be slightly worse
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2021-06-23 08:47:25	CoderBR_000	helo
2021-06-23 08:47:35	autopsy	CoderBR_000, Yep Hi too to you too dude.
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2021-06-23 08:48:26	autopsy	I'm still a student. Ok. ? I don't know what you are talking about as much as I want to come to base with what you are typing and say yeah I know that and... no I don't but help me.
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2021-06-23 08:49:53	autopsy	PlanckLort, isn't a Planck a sort of minute distance as far as we can measure... so it is the smallest of all smalls and thats It.
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2021-06-23 08:51:00	PlanckLort	autopsy: Yes and Lort in my language means dirt. So I am the tiniest speck of dirt :)
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2021-06-23 08:51:44	PlanckLort	I just wish my latency was as small :(
2021-06-23 08:52:16	autopsy	Why thank you for that man. Thats what I'm talking about. Good reason, good payload good god what a good guy you are.
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2021-06-23 08:52:37	autopsy	Latency is a big thing with audio processing.
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2021-06-23 08:53:32	PlanckLort	I'm confused if about if you are being sarcastic, I'm typically awful at communicating
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2021-06-23 08:53:53	PlanckLort	but I'll take the compliment either way, thanks :)
2021-06-23 08:53:54	autopsy	I'm typically awful at communicateing too.
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2021-06-23 08:55:25	autopsy	PlanckLort, I was just saying, please try to explain like I was learning about whatever it is, and there you came explaining your Lort in another language in English lort means nothing no word of lort so..... PlanckLort means nothing to me in fact its confusing as to why your name is so stupid.
2021-06-23 08:55:36	autopsy	But you eplxaining it did the trick.
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2021-06-23 08:55:48	autopsy	I was just saying. Thats good thank you.
2021-06-23 08:56:19	PlanckLort	Ah i see
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2021-06-23 09:04:25	PlanckLort	lacroix: Do you know if it would be possible to start a SPI DMA transfer from the IRQ? I have been hesitant to use DMA as i can't find any good examples or documentation to start a SPI - DMA tansfer but I'm starting to fear that might be my only shot
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2021-06-23 09:07:56	PlanckLort	It seems weird to me that with the PREEMPT_RT patch i get latencies up to 0.9 mS between scheduling work (a task) and the work to actually be processed.
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2021-06-23 09:10:19	PlanckLort	Looking at tests online made on a PI the max latency is in terms of 0.3 micro seconds which is magnitudes lower than my result
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2021-06-23 09:18:13	autopsy	Ok guys whats the jig. I'm not registered?
2021-06-23 09:18:35	autopsy	Dlange jim, uh Sauvin whats how do I regsiter my name?
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2021-06-23 09:19:04	autopsy	This is a new server to me see. I'm new here.
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2021-06-23 09:19:33	autopsy	Please help please be forgiving and please let the birds and the bees do what they please.
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2021-06-23 09:23:08	PlanckLort	autopsy: I think you will get a faster answer to that question in #libera
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2021-06-23 09:24:03	byte4byte	where jim at
2021-06-23 09:25:04	-->	discipulus (~discipulu@user/discipulus) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 09:25:06	D__	Who's Jim?
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2021-06-23 09:26:02	byte4byte	the  biggest con artist youll ever meet
2021-06-23 09:26:17	byte4byte	99% of people are here because he promised he would teach them python
2021-06-23 09:26:23	byte4byte	then he disappears
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2021-06-23 09:26:30	rascul	like a snake
2021-06-23 09:26:48	rascul	selling snake oil then slithering away
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2021-06-23 09:27:04	D__	Oh
2021-06-23 09:27:25	rascul	jim is a cool guy though really
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2021-06-23 09:29:00	autopsy	Ok PlanckLort I'm going to trust you on this one.
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2021-06-23 09:38:47	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-23 10:05:15	jbowen	hello
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2021-06-23 10:07:58	PlanckLort	Hi!
2021-06-23 10:08:39	qqqhhh	hello i have trouble mounting an EFI ESP, the mount command succeeds but does not get mounted. fsck says all is ok. what could be the problem? thanks.
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2021-06-23 10:09:17	jelly	qqqhhh, what is the mount command used, and what does the output of just "mount" look after that
2021-06-23 10:09:18	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 10:09:58	qqqhhh	mount -v /dev/nvme1n1p1 /boot/efi
2021-06-23 10:09:59	qqqhhh	mount: /dev/nvme1n1p1 mounted on /boot/efi.
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2021-06-23 10:10:51	qqqhhh	https://termbin.com/1hw6
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2021-06-23 10:12:18	drip	try another directory, it may be systemd unmounting it automatically
2021-06-23 10:12:53	qqqhhh	drip: that's it
2021-06-23 10:13:18	qqqhhh	drip: why does systemd do that?
2021-06-23 10:13:45	drip	i dunno, i just learned it can do that, maybe check journalctl -b
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2021-06-23 10:14:33	Dagmar	Screw whoever wrote that code then
2021-06-23 10:14:35	 *	drip resists the urge to crack a knows-it-all joke
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2021-06-23 10:14:54	Dagmar	Countermanding something the admin explicitly did without 1) a damn good reason and 2) writing said reason to the logs is a venal sin
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2021-06-23 10:15:06	qqqhhh	drip: yes it is in journalctl but hidden amongst lots of trash
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2021-06-23 10:15:24	jjakob	the systemd way or the highway
2021-06-23 10:15:29	drip	but its binary encoded trash so you know its legit
2021-06-23 10:15:57	Dagmar	So what did it write to teh journal about why it did something stupid?
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2021-06-23 10:16:38	qqqhhh	boot-efi.mount: Unit is bound to inactive unit dev-disk-by\xxx.device. Stopping, too.
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2021-06-23 10:17:09	Dagmar	Jesus so if the unit is deactivated it will outright block you?  That's lame
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2021-06-23 10:19:02	jjakob	well, that mountpoint was probably already used by a unit
2021-06-23 10:19:18	jjakob	so by manually umounting it you failed that unit
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2021-06-23 10:19:29	jjakob	control the unit instead
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2021-06-23 10:20:53	Dagmar	That's just a more elaborate way to do the dumbest thing possible
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2021-06-23 10:21:12	Dagmar	...well, on systemd's part
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2021-06-23 10:21:30	Dagmar	THer'es no choice but to control it through the unit now
2021-06-23 10:21:38	Dagmar	s/through/via/
2021-06-23 10:22:05	camel_case	system v needed to be replaced, and systemd did a great job of it
2021-06-23 10:22:07	Dagmar	It "failing" by being manually unmounted should not result in a change to the unit's settings
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2021-06-23 10:22:22	Dagmar	camel_case: In the eyes of idiots, sure
2021-06-23 10:22:46	camel_case	Dagmar: that was unnecessarily rude
2021-06-23 10:23:04	Dagmar	Four root-level compromises was unnecessarily dreadful
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2021-06-23 10:24:06	drip	on a related note, one of my machines this year just worked with pulseaudio and actually put out sound
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2021-06-23 10:24:23	drip	usually its 'why is my sound not working?  oh cause pulseaudio was pulled in by an update'
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2021-06-23 10:26:29	Dagmar	Wow, usually after five years people get the hint... but not those hipsters
2021-06-23 10:26:29	Dagmar	https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206144
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2021-06-23 10:27:46	Dagmar	qqqhhh: `systemctl daemon-reload` _might_ unbungle it
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2021-06-23 10:29:46	qqqhhh	Dagmar: i solved it by mounting it elsewhere and telling grub the dir
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2021-06-23 10:31:07	Dagmar	That'll work.  Where it's mounted isn't exactly material, since it's only there so the admin has an easy way to get files installed into the ESP without explaining to people that mtools isn't "outdated"
2021-06-23 10:31:29	drip	the proper way is to modify the systemd unit, which apparently it could have auto-created incorrectly
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2021-06-23 10:31:56	Dagmar	Why does systemd need to be updated on what the admin is currently doing as manual operations?
2021-06-23 10:31:57	drip	but whatever works
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2021-06-23 10:32:40	Dagmar	Windows is a place where it's acceptable for the system to countermand the administrator at every turn.
2021-06-23 10:32:41	drip	yeah i dont think it should decide to manage every new device it sees mounted, i do a lot of temporary mounts
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2021-06-23 10:35:22	Dagmar	I don';t have a problem with it keeping track of them in an effort to perform some kind of persistence (after all, if it doesn't *do* anything it can't really do something wrong) or record, but allowing situations to transpire where it can start automatically _umounting_ the filesystem is unquestionably wrong
2021-06-23 10:35:24	<--	Eldbogi (~Eldbogi@nova-046-182-189-076.nat.novanet.is) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-23 10:35:32	Dagmar	...and apparently it's been going on for at least five years.
2021-06-23 10:36:31	Dagmar	# means if I tell the system to blow my legs off, then an eyeblink later I'd better not have those legs.
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2021-06-23 10:36:41	qwedfg	how to make super-low latency ethernet on laptop and desktop
2021-06-23 10:36:48	Dagmar	...and i'd only be doing so because I've got a brand new pair of legs standing by ready to do.
2021-06-23 10:36:54	qwedfg	I used to do it via redhat mrg and it was like really low ping
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2021-06-23 10:37:17	Dagmar	qwedfg: You're already looking at low latency by virtue of not using windows
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2021-06-23 10:38:01	rascul	my latency is so low level that it's underground
2021-06-23 10:38:32	Dagmar	For sure having systemd decide to blow those new legs off automatically is a stupid idea
2021-06-23 10:38:45	akik	rascul is deep, deep undercover
2021-06-23 10:39:05	 *	rascul puts on his hat
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2021-06-23 10:40:11	akik	forrest gump would like systemd "you never know what you're gonna get"
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2021-06-23 10:41:53	Dagmar	Sometimes a jet of warm water, sometimes... well... you get the idea
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2021-06-23 10:42:39	xythrez	At least it's not upstart.
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2021-06-23 10:43:07	Dagmar	Upstart was just too complex.  It didn't happily decide to start countermanding the administrator.
2021-06-23 10:43:28	<--	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@37.19.223.78) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 10:43:32	Dagmar	Being complex is less of a problem than actively overriding the actions of the pinkboy at the keyboard
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2021-06-23 10:44:20	Dagmar	People have a _right_ to buy candy-flavored shotgun sights
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2021-06-23 10:44:45	Dagmar	They will not learn to never stick that end of the thing in their mouths unless they have the ability to try in the first place
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2021-06-23 10:45:22	hodapp	keep your pants on, Hemingway
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2021-06-23 10:47:57	HumbleGuy	why do i get this when i try to scroll in suckless st 2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~
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2021-06-23 10:48:12	akik	that sucks
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2021-06-23 10:48:26	HumbleGuy	lol
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2021-06-23 10:50:44	akik	HumbleGuy: what do you mean scrolling? in terminal shell?
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2021-06-23 10:51:48	jim	byte4byte, I got the guy you referred to me started... he's gonna be just fine running the video
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2021-06-23 10:52:09	HumbleGuy	akik, yeah, but if you don't use st then i don't think you can help me
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2021-06-23 10:52:32	akik	HumbleGuy: nope. plasma 5 + konsole
2021-06-23 10:52:53	akik	HumbleGuy: but you could try starting another terminal emulator and see if it works
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2021-06-23 10:53:32	akik	ubuntu packages older nvidia drivers too and when you run sudo prime-select nvidia it modifies the initramfs
2021-06-23 10:53:45	HumbleGuy	akik, it work in other terminals, its all about patching in st
2021-06-23 10:53:50	akik	i didn't even need any kernel parameters for it to work
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2021-06-23 10:54:13	jim	byte4byte, in fact, he seems to pick things up very quickly
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2021-06-23 10:54:17	akik	HumbleGuy: patching?
2021-06-23 10:54:36	HumbleGuy	yeah
2021-06-23 10:54:43	HumbleGuy	i have to add keys for scrolling
2021-06-23 10:54:48	HumbleGuy	they are not properly difined
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2021-06-23 10:54:50	HumbleGuy	defined
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2021-06-23 10:54:58	--	hobuster is now known as ho-buster
2021-06-23 10:55:00	akik	oh right, keep the pieces
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2021-06-23 10:59:37	akik	HumbleGuy: does this fix it?
2021-06-23 10:59:38	akik	bind '"\e[A": history-search-backward'
2021-06-23 10:59:39	akik	bind '"\e[B": history-search-forward'
2021-06-23 10:59:53	akik	that's cursor up and down
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2021-06-23 11:00:25	HumbleGuy	akik, isnt it supposed to be button 4 and 5 ?
2021-06-23 11:00:33	akik	that's for bash
2021-06-23 11:00:56	akik	HumbleGuy: you mean, you have a problem with the mouse?
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2021-06-23 11:02:17	HumbleGuy	i use touchpad :)
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2021-06-23 11:03:06	HumbleGuy	no, its not a hardware problem
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2021-06-23 11:04:34	akik	i just know how to disable those buttons
2021-06-23 11:04:45	HumbleGuy	nevermind i will find the problem myself
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2021-06-23 11:04:48	akik	for example the middle click on the clickpad
2021-06-23 11:04:50	HumbleGuy	thanks anyways
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2021-06-23 11:05:40	akik	here's something to reconfigure them https://itectec.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-how-to-map-right-left-click-scroll-down-up-to-f1-f2-f3-f4/
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2021-06-23 11:11:15	akik	i'm not sure if that only configures keys to run mouse actions
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2021-06-23 11:12:08	akik	xdotool click 1 and xdotool click 3 can simulate left and right mouse button
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2021-06-23 11:14:06	akik	these might be the ones you want:
2021-06-23 11:14:07	akik	keycode 185 = XF86ScrollUp NoSymbol XF86ScrollUp
2021-06-23 11:14:07	akik	keycode 186 = XF86ScrollDown NoSymbol XF86ScrollDown
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2021-06-23 11:15:52	akik	HumbleGuy: do you get anything with: xmodmap -pke | grep XF86ScrollUp
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2021-06-23 11:17:21	HumbleGuy	akik, the problem isnt globally, for e.g scroll works fine in xfce4-terminal
2021-06-23 11:17:37	akik	ok
2021-06-23 11:17:40	HumbleGuy	i am currently getting help in #gentoo
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2021-06-23 11:18:13	rapha	hi all
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2021-06-23 11:18:47	rapha	anyone here every successfully use a Dell H710 with StorCLI? (or _any_ controller, for that matter?)
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2021-06-23 11:20:22	Dagmar	Someone probably has.  You might want to cite a specific problem
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2021-06-23 11:22:17	jim	rapha, right, good to ask your original question (adding informative details); having said that, I dunno what a Dell H710 is, or what StorCLI is
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2021-06-23 11:23:16	rapha	whoops, PERC H710p seems to be the actual name ... it's a RAID controller jim
2021-06-23 11:23:28	xythrez	RAID. Does $controller work with $software
2021-06-23 11:23:34	vitorgonc	hi hello
2021-06-23 11:23:39	jim	hi
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2021-06-23 11:23:45	Dagmar	*eyeroll*
2021-06-23 11:23:51	Dagmar	PERC controllers are common as dirt.
2021-06-23 11:23:53	rapha	xythrez: it's said to be working by "the internet" (forum posts)
2021-06-23 11:24:00	rapha	Dagmar: it's what i have, sorrz
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2021-06-23 11:24:17	rapha	and it's my first time ever dealing with "enterprise" hardware ... pls be kind :/
2021-06-23 11:24:30	rapha	and the original dell omreport doesn't see the controller, either
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2021-06-23 11:24:44	jim	Dagmar, do they work better than dirt?
2021-06-23 11:24:49	Dagmar	THen if you don't see it showing up in lspci it's probably a dead card
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2021-06-23 11:24:54	Dagmar	jim: They work fine
2021-06-23 11:25:09	Dagmar	...but having to drag the actual question out of someone sucks.
2021-06-23 11:25:41	rapha	Dagmar: if it were a dead card i didn't have the virtual disk which the OS is installed on and wouldn't be able to have booted into said OS to install said softwares and try the mout
2021-06-23 11:25:44	xythrez	rapha: what OS are you running?
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2021-06-23 11:25:53	rapha	xythrez: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
2021-06-23 11:26:14	Dagmar	rapha: So what is your _actual_ problem
2021-06-23 11:26:17	rapha	and sorry for the X/Y problem posing, that was idiotic of me
2021-06-23 11:26:21	<--	tex (~super@user/dix) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 11:26:30	jim	yeah, I get that... it happened that way for getter or worse... best now to relax
2021-06-23 11:26:31	xythrez	Oh. I'm not familiar with that. Some later versions of RHEL removed drivers for a few generations of raid controllers
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2021-06-23 11:26:34	rapha	Dagmar: https://i.imgur.com/ZAAE6n8.png
2021-06-23 11:26:37	jim	better
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2021-06-23 11:27:12	rapha	wow, lspci output on that box is a loooooooooooong list
2021-06-23 11:27:28	Dagmar	Yep
2021-06-23 11:27:40	rapha	ah, here we go
2021-06-23 11:27:42	rapha	03:00.0 RAID bus controller: Broadcom / LSI MegaRAID SAS 2208 [Thunderbolt] (rev 05)
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2021-06-23 11:28:11	rapha	(PERC controllers are apparently only rebranded LSI controllers from what i've read so far)
2021-06-23 11:28:25	xythrez	They are. I can confirm that
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2021-06-23 11:28:35	xythrez	Flashed the firmware on them once
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2021-06-23 11:28:39	jim	so the controller shows up... could you run: lspci -nn | grep -i raid
2021-06-23 11:29:01	Dagmar	Is this RHEL 8.1?
2021-06-23 11:29:09	rapha	Dagmar: ubuntu 20.04
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2021-06-23 11:29:15	Dagmar	Hrmm... interesting
2021-06-23 11:29:26	rapha	jim: 03:00.0 RAID bus controller [0104]: Broadcom / LSI MegaRAID SAS 2208 [Thunderbolt] [1000:005b] (rev 05)
2021-06-23 11:29:30	jjakob	I think we found the problen
2021-06-23 11:29:38	rapha	we did?
2021-06-23 11:29:46	Dagmar	Well, for some bizarre reason they're dropping the drivers for those in RHEL 8.1.
2021-06-23 11:29:51	rapha	o_O
2021-06-23 11:29:52	Dagmar	I don't know why Ubuntu would follow suit there
2021-06-23 11:29:52	jjakob	oops, scrolled up too far
2021-06-23 11:30:13	rapha	sooooooooooo ... kernel compile time then?!
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2021-06-23 11:31:01	xythrez	If you are/can be on Rhel/centos/rocky, you can side load the driver from elrepo
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2021-06-23 11:31:05	jim	rapha, could you run: lsmod | grep raid
2021-06-23 11:31:08	<--	AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@user/aqual1te) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 11:31:08	Psi-Jack	It's almost never that you would need to compile your own kernel, for any major distribution.
2021-06-23 11:31:14	xythrez	Not sure if this is your problem/is viable for what you are doing
2021-06-23 11:31:33	xythrez	I'm not too familiar with Ubuntu. They probably also have the drivers available somehow
2021-06-23 11:31:42	rapha	xythrez: nope, sysadmin is nice enough to let me put our box in his rack and demanded ubuntu be the hv
2021-06-23 11:31:43	jim	maybe the device needs firmware
2021-06-23 11:32:05	Psi-Jack	hv?
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2021-06-23 11:32:14	rapha	hmm that looks good https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/74e5f0ea3e7a764583d524e574ff7aba
2021-06-23 11:32:16	xythrez	rapha: yeah. I suspected so. Wish you the best of luck then
2021-06-23 11:32:19	rapha	among others a megaraid_sas
2021-06-23 11:32:27	rapha	Psi-Jack: hypervisor
2021-06-23 11:32:36	Dagmar	rapha: You may have betteer luck grabbing whatever is supposed to pair with Ubunto 20 from LSI's wesite
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2021-06-23 11:32:46	Dagmar	rapha: Apparently they have their own megacli tool
2021-06-23 11:32:54	jim	rapha, that's out of the lsmod output?
2021-06-23 11:32:55	--	odysseus is now known as ody
2021-06-23 11:32:56	Psi-Jack	Ubuntu's not a hypervisor. :p
2021-06-23 11:33:07	Dagmar	<<obligatory reminder that it's a waste of time to use raid cards that lack battery backup>>
2021-06-23 11:33:09	rapha	Psi-Jack: anything can be a hypervisor if it runs linux
2021-06-23 11:33:16	Psi-Jack	rapha: Wrong.
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2021-06-23 11:33:29	Dagmar	raphe: Well, you _reallY_ want CPU support for virtualization
2021-06-23 11:33:31	jjakob	Dagmar: i use one in hba mode
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2021-06-23 11:33:33	rapha	Dagmar: according to the iDRAC that thing does have a (rechargable) battery
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2021-06-23 11:33:48	rapha	jim: yes, that was lsmod output. also: https://gist.github.com/sixtyfive/9af1be729ac2bc2b3692045b4a0716c2 ... dmesg
2021-06-23 11:33:49	Dagmar	Speaking of
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2021-06-23 11:33:58	Dagmar	Keep that idrac isolated to it's own vlan
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2021-06-23 11:34:15	rapha	Dagmar: it's unconnected for now.
2021-06-23 11:34:16	Dagmar	Dell apparently uses K-mart brand developers for those things
2021-06-23 11:34:24	rapha	what are k-mart brand developers?
2021-06-23 11:34:39	rapha	(sorry, not a native speaker of english)
2021-06-23 11:34:40	Dagmar	Stupid people who work for cheap because they're barely qualified
2021-06-23 11:34:44	rapha	oh lol ok
2021-06-23 11:34:46	rapha	well
2021-06-23 11:35:12	rapha	the whole iDRAC thing as well as the BIOS of that once-expensive-as-a-car-machine look like they'd been bharfed up by a chimpanzee on MDMA
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2021-06-23 11:35:35	curdlesnoot	rapha: they don't work with storcli, as far as I can gather. megacli works.
2021-06-23 11:35:37	Psi-Jack	Yeah, references to illegal substances, not a good idea.
2021-06-23 11:35:54	Psi-Jack	MegaCLI is a royal PITA, but works with LSI controllers well.
2021-06-23 11:36:00	rapha	curdlesnoot: that's interesting info, thanks!
2021-06-23 11:36:02	Psi-Jack	VeRY CaSe SenSAtIVe.
2021-06-23 11:36:05	rapha	lol
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2021-06-23 11:36:17	 *	rapha wanders off to find MegaCLI packaged up in some .deb
2021-06-23 11:36:40	jim	rapha, is that its exact name?
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2021-06-23 11:37:08	Dagmar	rapha: The deal with the battery si that CPUs are wildly past the point where RAID calculations are a problem.  Being that proprietary RAID cards tend to use their own proprietary metadata and as an added bonus you're no longer allowed to talk directly to the individual disks without the manfacturer's utilities, people usually have a better time going with just plain mdadm unless the hardware _actually_ brings something unique and useful
2021-06-23 11:37:10	rapha	jim: all i can say is that what you saw in the lspci output matches with what was written on the DELL Website
2021-06-23 11:37:15	Dagmar	...like battery-backed cache RAM
2021-06-23 11:37:33	curdlesnoot	rapha: in case that bears no fruit, here are the binaries: https://docs.broadcom.com/docs-and-downloads/raid-controllers/raid-controllers-common-files/8-07-14_MegaCLI.zip
2021-06-23 11:37:50	rapha	... or that
2021-06-23 11:37:56	 *	rapha wants to get this to work and go home
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2021-06-23 11:38:11	Dagmar	Oh megacli should "just work" if it's reasonably compatible with your glibc version
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2021-06-23 11:38:44	jim	rapha, I mean the megacli
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2021-06-23 11:38:50	Sayona	Hi :)
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2021-06-23 11:39:17	rapha	Dagmar: once i install rpm2cpio
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2021-06-23 11:39:42	jim	Sayona, hi there
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2021-06-23 11:42:26	Psi-Jack	https://gist.github.com/fxkraus/595ab82e07cd6f8e057d31bc0bc5e779
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2021-06-23 11:42:30	Psi-Jack	This might prove useful/
2021-06-23 11:42:37	Dagmar	rapha: This should probably help somewhat https://hwraid.le-vert.net/wiki/LSIMegaRAIDSAS
2021-06-23 11:42:47	Psi-Jack	Converting the megacli zip/rpm into .deb by use of alien *twitch*
2021-06-23 11:43:04	Dagmar	I'ce no idea why you wouldn't just install rpm
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2021-06-23 11:43:18	Psi-Jack	Because, ubuntu, not CentOS/RHEL.
2021-06-23 11:43:24	Dagmar	Converting it between package types just seems like a bad idea
2021-06-23 11:43:31	ody	rapha, I've run Dell kit for years and have some notes on using storcli with the MegaRAID controllers if you want me to send you a copy?
2021-06-23 11:43:32	rapha	omg is that a vile CLI
2021-06-23 11:43:39	Psi-Jack	Of course it is. But. that'ss what they provide.
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2021-06-23 11:43:43	Psi-Jack	rapha: Very.
2021-06-23 11:43:57	Psi-Jack	It's literally the worse CLI ever created on this planet.
2021-06-23 11:44:02	rapha	ody: totally! can i /msg you an email address?
2021-06-23 11:44:07	Dagmar	rapha: now you see why the tradeoff point is "the hardware better bring something useful to the table"
2021-06-23 11:44:11	ody	sure
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2021-06-23 11:44:38	Dagmar	mdadm and smartctl are just way easier to deal with
2021-06-23 11:44:39	rapha	Dagmar: yes ... unfortunately i listened to my Dell Service Professional buddy who loves that controller and said it's much better than to use mdadm
2021-06-23 11:44:50	Dagmar	yeah he's kind of clueless then
2021-06-23 11:45:00	rapha	otoh how would you sensibly run mdadm if you don't get direct access to the drives
2021-06-23 11:45:12	Dagmar	You'd disable the controller
2021-06-23 11:45:15	Psi-Jack	rapha: You stop using the hardware controller.
2021-06-23 11:45:29	Dagmar	...then take it out and drop it into the circular filing cabinet next to your desk.
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2021-06-23 11:46:01	Dagmar	Well, after making sure you've spotted the motherboards built-in SAS ports
2021-06-23 11:46:17	rapha	aha!
2021-06-23 11:46:22	rapha	now we're talking though
2021-06-23 11:46:28	rapha	er
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2021-06-23 11:46:40	rapha	and without a controller how do you connect 16 harddrives?
2021-06-23 11:46:46	Dagmar	I've been meaning to look at whether or not I can get smartd talking thbrough those CLI tools
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2021-06-23 11:46:53	 *	rapha is also kind of clueless
2021-06-23 11:47:01	Dagmar	rapha: Buy one that doesn't suck.  Usually they do not require 16 connections
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2021-06-23 11:47:21	Dagmar	They'll be ganged together in groups of four with a blocky-looking connector by the chassis
2021-06-23 11:47:22	rapha	oh right ... they're PCI ... so can be swapped
2021-06-23 11:47:41	 *	rapha will take a look when he's in the same room with that server the next time
2021-06-23 11:47:50	rapha	buuuuuuuuuuut for now
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2021-06-23 11:47:55	rapha	megacli is seeing the controller
2021-06-23 11:47:57	Psi-Jack	Yeah, software raid, mdadm, is a lot easier to work with and usually just about as performant as hardware. The only diference comes with BBU Raid, which isn't much of an actual improvement, but reliability factor improvement, slightly. Bigger thing is, portability, you can always access the mdadm RAID on any Linux system, where-as with the HW Raid, you have to have the same manufacturer's brand, sometimes even the exact same model or line of models.
2021-06-23 11:47:58	rapha	thank you all!
2021-06-23 11:48:00	baldpope	has anyone experienced intermittent packet loss using a AT&T fiber gateway? specifically with ESP traffic?
2021-06-23 11:48:00	baldpope	I'm able to work-around the issue by adjusting the client MTU down (not the end of the world, but frustrating) and hoping someone else might have had an issue they resolved?
2021-06-23 11:48:19	Dagmar	baldpope; You said "AT&T"
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2021-06-23 11:48:29	baldpope	Dagmar, lol, I did
2021-06-23 11:48:35	Dagmar	You've only just begun to learn the depths of their madness.
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2021-06-23 11:48:38	baldpope	gig fiber
2021-06-23 11:48:44	jim	rapha, you found the megacli thing?
2021-06-23 11:48:55	Dagmar	Wait until they randomly decided to re-enable the firewalling on the terminating equipment on site
2021-06-23 11:48:56	baldpope	super frustrating talking with their lack of technical support
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2021-06-23 11:49:27	Dagmar	The number of times I've had to call an office and say "Send me some pictures of anything that looks like a yellow sticker on the AT&T equipment"
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2021-06-23 11:49:55	rapha	jim: downloaded the link curdlesnoot posted and just ran it from the unpacked .rpm, which is working fine for now
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2021-06-23 11:50:48	baldpope	Dagmar, yea - any luck with talking with someone competent at AT&T?
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2021-06-23 11:50:57	Dagmar	Occasionally.
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2021-06-23 11:51:36	Dagmar	I'd check the terminating equipment and ensure it's built-in firewall and QoS is _disabled_, assuming you have your own firewall
2021-06-23 11:51:43	curdlesnoot	rapha: incidentally, bsdtar also works for extracting.
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2021-06-23 11:52:00	Dagmar	For all you know, it might be trying to prioritize Netflix or something _over_ the VPN traffic
2021-06-23 11:52:21	Dagmar	...or possibly just https in general.
2021-06-23 11:52:30	jim	don't rpms have a cpio archive?
2021-06-23 11:52:41	Dagmar	You never know what kind of use-case they've got in mind, but generally it's "Some old lady who buys junk off ebay all day"
2021-06-23 11:52:55	Dagmar	jim: s/don't/aren't/ s/have/are/
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2021-06-23 11:53:36	Dagmar	*snap*
2021-06-23 11:53:42	baldpope	Dagmar, yea - just about everything is disabled, and yea - we're routing through our own srx
2021-06-23 11:53:50	Dagmar	baldpope: Set up a monitor to track utilization
2021-06-23 11:53:58	rapha	curdlesnoot: oh, good to know!
2021-06-23 11:54:07	Dagmar	baldpope: U-verse does some really, really lame things to throttle
2021-06-23 11:54:09	curdlesnoot	jim: bsdtar is part of libarchive and can deal with it, along with many other formats, despite being a tar implementation on the surface.
2021-06-23 11:54:20	baldpope	yea - only seems to be affecting the ESP traffic
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2021-06-23 11:54:31	jim	curdlesnoot, oh ok
2021-06-23 11:54:35	Dagmar	baldpope: I have seen this manifest at multiple field offices, and I genuinely ditched them for my home service over this
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2021-06-23 11:54:41	baldpope	i tried to explain to the 'tech' that I have packet captures showing their dropping packets, he had no interest in even talking to me
2021-06-23 11:55:01	baldpope	s/their/they're
2021-06-23 11:55:05	Dagmar	baldpope: THeir idea of QoS rate-limiting when you hit your allocated upstream bandwidth is to _delay downstream traffic by up to 20 wall-clock seconds_
2021-06-23 11:55:20	baldpope	oof
2021-06-23 11:55:22	jim	baldpope, see if he has "interest" in speaking to your lawyer :)
2021-06-23 11:55:23	Dagmar	If you see a correlation in utilization and packet loss, you'll know they're doing that
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2021-06-23 11:56:38	Dagmar	baldpope: Yeah my wife would be trying to upload a 2Gb PDF she just completed to somewhere, and things would go heavily pear-shaped the moment, you know, we actually did a non-trivial amount of upstream.  The cap was apparently at something stupid like 1.2Mbit
2021-06-23 11:57:08	Dagmar	Unless the SLA is for asynchronous gigglebit, it's AT&T
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2021-06-23 11:57:23	Dagmar	er synchronous
2021-06-23 11:57:35	Dagmar	1gb up and 1gb down
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2021-06-23 11:57:53	baldpope	not sure what the SLA is - but that's the service we're subscribing to
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2021-06-23 11:58:08	Psi-Jack	Heh, I hate AT&T.
2021-06-23 11:58:22	Psi-Jack	I will never give them any money ever again.
2021-06-23 11:58:29	Dagmar	Mind you _some_ packet loss shouldn't majorly affect a VPN tunnel
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2021-06-23 11:59:23	baldpope	the tunnel is up, thankfully
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2021-06-23 12:01:32	baldpope	but when we have https traffic over to the desired endpoint, we're only seeing the initial client hello, and never getting the replies
2021-06-23 12:02:04	demon	Has anyone been able to get nvidia-optimus-manager working under gentoo?
2021-06-23 12:02:13	Dagmar	That sounds more like a tunnel misconfiguration
2021-06-23 12:02:15	demon	I am having no luck with the overlays
2021-06-23 12:02:37	Dagmar	The handshake will be short, actual "substantial" packets will reach the MTU
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2021-06-23 12:02:42	baldpope	I wish, but the same device is fine when I route the traffic through the backup cable modem
2021-06-23 12:02:53	Dagmar	That having been said the normal MTU generally works freakin' fine
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2021-06-23 12:03:12	Dagmar	Yeah that's another tickbox in favor of "provider has MTU issue"
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2021-06-23 12:03:22	baldpope	right - which is AT&T
2021-06-23 12:03:24	 *	baldpope sigh
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2021-06-23 12:03:39	Dagmar	I don't know if your'e kitted out to be able to send arbitrarily-sized packets on both ends, but there _are_ tools to do it
2021-06-23 12:03:58	baldpope	my only other thought is that *maybe* it's an issue with terminating the fiber and their ethernet handoff to their gateway
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2021-06-23 12:04:16	Dagmar	We're seriously considering velcroing raspberry pis to some of our new firewall deployments because of stuff like that
2021-06-23 12:04:19	baldpope	Dagmar, i tested using curl and modifying the MTU in between tests
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2021-06-23 12:04:40	rapha	ok y'all ... we just figured this out
2021-06-23 12:04:51	Dagmar	Well, you';re not talkiong about generalized packet loss now, you're talking about something rather specific
2021-06-23 12:04:54	rapha	the PERC H710p is new enough to require the usage of DELL's perccli64
2021-06-23 12:04:55	baldpope	and i performed packet caps on the srx - but I could have done it in the switches
2021-06-23 12:05:03	Dagmar	At first I thougth you were talking about more or less random packet drops
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2021-06-23 12:06:04	baldpope	yea - appears to be specific to anything 'inside' the tunnel
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2021-06-23 12:06:58	Psi-Jack	Heh yeah, the stupid perccli, igh.
2021-06-23 12:07:39	Dagmar	So you're saying that 1500-byte long TCP packets pass find but not 1500-byte ESP packets?
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2021-06-23 12:08:06	Dagmar	(yadda yadda the tcp packet will be like 1508 if it's inside the tunnell)
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2021-06-23 12:09:12	Dagmar	!@#@!# s/find/fine/
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2021-06-23 12:10:01	evidlo	has anyone noticed that "flatpak override com.foo.bar --filesystem=host" doesn't actually work?
2021-06-23 12:10:17	evidlo	I've tried it on  two applications now and they both have filesystem permissions problems
2021-06-23 12:10:18	Psi-Jack	evidlo: Nope, Never noticed.
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2021-06-23 12:10:54	evidlo	and why is it even necessary for me to mess with this sandboxing stuff?  is it because the apps were packaged incorrectly?
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2021-06-23 12:11:23	baldpope	Dagmar, that's pretty close to what I'm saying - if I adjust the client side myu down to 1438, I can successfully route the appication traffic
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2021-06-23 12:11:56	Psi-Jack	baldpope: So, one thing I would do, if you have sufficient data to prove traffic is being throttled, file an FCC complaint.
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2021-06-23 12:12:24	Psi-Jack	Tell the ISP you're filing a complaint with the FCC, because IF they are throttling a specific service, under current FCC regulations, that's unacceptable.
2021-06-23 12:12:37	baldpope	Psi-Jack, that sounds awesomely petty ;)
2021-06-23 12:12:42	Dagmar	It's not
2021-06-23 12:12:44	Dagmar	It's warranted
2021-06-23 12:12:45	Psi-Jack	It's not.
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2021-06-23 12:13:00	Psi-Jack	It's been warranted for fracking YEARS, and finally is an option.
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2021-06-23 12:13:04	Psi-Jack	nifl: This again?
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2021-06-23 12:13:09	baldpope	good to know
2021-06-23 12:13:23	Dagmar	the big ISPs regularly make really stupid architectural decisions and break stuff, and have ZERO problems pretending the customer is an idiot for ever wanting the perfectly reasonable thing
2021-06-23 12:13:47	Psi-Jack	baldpope: Has AT&T tried to get you to use their "Consierge (sp?) Support" services to "fix the problem" yet? Their paid "support"?
2021-06-23 12:13:51	Dagmar	Case in point, I wound up making _45_ calls to Comcast techncial support a couple years ago when they were hot and bothered to "compete" with Google Fiber
2021-06-23 12:14:23	Dagmar	I moved from one condo to another, and they talked me into upgrading to a 150Mbit service (I had been JUST FINE on my single-channel DOCSIS modem until then)
2021-06-23 12:14:45	Dagmar	So I went out and bought a modem that was capable of that.  An 8-channel down 4-channels up model.
2021-06-23 12:14:50	freedomcum	anyone know where i can get win11 iso?
2021-06-23 12:15:00	Psi-Jack	freedomcum: Why are you asking that herE?
2021-06-23 12:15:03	Psi-Jack	Of all places?
2021-06-23 12:15:06	Dagmar	Comcast pushed out a config that very obviously had "default" in the name and was only configured to use _one channel_}
2021-06-23 12:15:09	freedomcum	huh?
2021-06-23 12:15:15	onelegend	Do ISPs do QoS based on IPs? Like will a file transfer directly to a friend across the country (where both of us are on good connections), be slower than a downloading a file from a CDN?
2021-06-23 12:15:19	akik	freedomcum: you're at #linux
2021-06-23 12:15:20	freedomcum	its a linux channel  ?
2021-06-23 12:15:22	omegatron	freedomcum: yeah, try it on the canonical homepage
2021-06-23 12:15:32	Psi-Jack	freedomcum: Yes? And? Linux ain't Windows.
2021-06-23 12:15:35	evidlo	every time I try to run a flatpak application, I immediately run into file permissions issues.  Can't access files outside of $HOME for editors, can't access SSL certs in browsers, etc.
2021-06-23 12:15:35	freedomcum	noobs
2021-06-23 12:15:43	Psi-Jack	Troll?
2021-06-23 12:15:43	evidlo	I don't understand how this is even considered a usable state
2021-06-23 12:15:45	omegatron	troll
2021-06-23 12:15:45	akik	freedomcum: stupido
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2021-06-23 12:15:47	raccoon_dog	freedomcum: 1) That's not on-topic here; 2) It probably isn't legal to get an ISO of an OS that hasn't been released yet officially (unless you're a tester, which doesn't seem to be the case.)
2021-06-23 12:15:55	Dagmar	THey _insisted_ repeatedly and alternatingly that the modem was not capable of that speed, and that they were configuring it correctly, etc etc
2021-06-23 12:16:02	freedomcum	blaaaah cry bby
2021-06-23 12:16:07	freedomcum	cya noobs
2021-06-23 12:16:12	onelegend	lol
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2021-06-23 12:16:17	akik	and nothing of value was lost
2021-06-23 12:16:22	Psi-Jack	jim: You around?
2021-06-23 12:16:30	Dagmar	What it amounted to was that they planned a "free bandwidth upgrade" if legal shenanigans didn't work and were requiring all _their_ modems be double-provisioned so they could go to 300MMbit
2021-06-23 12:16:31	xythrez	Don't feed the trolls. Ignore and move on.
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2021-06-23 12:16:45	Dagmar	Yeah, I went to the FCC over that
2021-06-23 12:16:57	omegatron	... and what did the FCC tell you .. ?
2021-06-23 12:17:13	onelegend	I hate when ISPs use megabits
2021-06-23 12:17:30	onelegend	300Mbps? HA more like 37.5 Megabytes per second
2021-06-23 12:17:47	ananke	why, is math hard for you?
2021-06-23 12:17:56	Dagmar	onelegend: QoS based on remote endpoint is not something end-user ISPs generally do.  It *is* something peering providers occasionally do, and is generally the entire reasoning behind geographic load-balancers
2021-06-23 12:18:22	Psi-Jack	onelegend: Not quite, because, encapsulation too.
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2021-06-23 12:18:35	Dagmar	onelegend: Yeah either way it took so much time I had time to go _find_ the tools neccessary to put together a custom TFTP configuration image and feed _mY_ config to the modem
2021-06-23 12:18:48	Dagmar	It was absolutely capable of 150Mbit transfer.  Plenty of channels.
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2021-06-23 12:19:06	Dagmar	They'd have had a fit if they found out I did that tho
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2021-06-23 12:19:40	Dagmar	The phrase "best effort configuration" is utterly lost on them and they have no change management framework for problems liek that to ever reach someone who can fix them
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2021-06-23 12:20:08	onelegend	ananke: it often confuses people, who complain that their internet speed is not actually 300 Megabytes per second.
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2021-06-23 12:20:26	Dagmar	But but the numbar is larger as megabits!
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2021-06-23 12:21:01	Dagmar	I've had an AT&T rep on my doorstep trying to sell me gigabyte fiber
2021-06-23 12:21:03	Psi-Jack	Yeah, I filed an FCC complaint against COX a bit back. About unfairly charging me for "going over my monthly bandwidth limit" which I was tracking directly at my router, and reduced bandwidth than advertised, as I was getting an average 650Mbps when I was paying for 1Gbps.
2021-06-23 12:21:29	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: Be glad no one sniffed the MAC of any of your wireless devices
2021-06-23 12:21:37	Psi-Jack	I proved both cases of negligence on COX here locally, FCC fined them, and COX fixed the issues. :)
2021-06-23 12:21:55	Dagmar	Certain ISPs may have been given an ultimatum about letting the customer see which devices were presently bound to their account
2021-06-23 12:21:57	ananke	onelegend: you could make same argument about kilo vs mega vs giga. there is no unit that would satisify all of those cases
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2021-06-23 12:22:19	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: Heh, eh?
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2021-06-23 12:22:48	Dagmar	...becuase without WPA2 as a requirement, it's all too easy to say, sit somewhere near an Xfinity wireless gateway, capture a legit Comcast customer's MAC address when they use it, and then use that MAC address yourself later anywhere
2021-06-23 12:23:00	Dagmar	ALl transit with that MAC is counted against that customer's bandwidth limits
2021-06-23 12:23:10	onelegend	Dagmar: that's really scary
2021-06-23 12:23:15	Dagmar	This was the source of _several_ people getting reports of massive bandwidth overages
2021-06-23 12:23:32	onelegend	I typically never pay for wireless hotspots for that reason
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2021-06-23 12:23:44	Dagmar	onelegend: They implemented something stupid, and some kids were taking advantage of it
2021-06-23 12:23:54	Dagmar	It's not a matter of paying for the hotspot
2021-06-23 12:24:14	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: Ahh. yeah, COX doesn't do that that I am aware. They DO however allow the modem itself to act as a WiFi hotspot which segregates network connectivity from you and the WiFi HotSpot completely. I've actually used it myself to directly test remote inbound connectivity in certain situations, to act like I wasn't at home.
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2021-06-23 12:24:26	Dagmar	If you were a cablemodem customer you were allowed to login to one of their many hotspots, pass the username/password crednetials check, and then be whitelisted for normal internet acess from there
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2021-06-23 12:24:58	Dagmar	Once you'd done this you could then use that laptop or phone at any of their publicly visible hotspots
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2021-06-23 12:25:32	Dagmar	And until that had been going awry for a couple years, there was no way to see in their web portal which devices (or any devices) were currently tied to your account
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2021-06-23 12:26:41	Dagmar	I was completely ignoring the situation until a couple of my friends got hit with large utiliization overages
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2021-06-23 12:27:17	Psi-Jack	Hmm interesting.
2021-06-23 12:27:26	-->	jkwnki (~jkwnki@p2e579aae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 12:27:27	Psi-Jack	I avoid using hotspots that I don't myself control.
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2021-06-23 12:28:07	Psi-Jack	If I go, for example, to a hotel, I have a personal hotspot provider that connects to the hotel WiFi, and initiates a VPN bridge home, and I connect anything WiFi to that local hotspot :)
2021-06-23 12:28:16	Dagmar	Comcast may or may not have recieved the outline of a presentation that was planned for putting on Youtube
2021-06-23 12:28:22	Dagmar	WIth a time limit
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2021-06-23 12:28:30	Dagmar	It was a generous time limit.
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2021-06-23 12:29:30	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: To be clear, this wasn't a matter of someone sniffing the username and password of Comcast customer because they were usign plaintext http or something (although people generally aren't smart enough to check for the lock icon ahem)
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2021-06-23 12:30:25	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: That authentication happens over https just fine.  The issue is that the client equipment's _mac_ would be recorded and that MAC address would then be whitelisted with its traffic counting towards the user's bandwidth cap
2021-06-23 12:30:42	Dagmar	...and it's trivial to clone the MAC address of an ethernet device.
2021-06-23 12:30:45	onelegend	what would be a more secure way to identify customers for the wirless APs?
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2021-06-23 12:31:07	Dagmar	1. Require WPA2
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2021-06-23 12:31:19	theseb	How debug why a long running AWS Ubuntu Linux server would need rebooting due to freezing last 2 days?  /var/log/syslog and dmesg don't seem to give many clues
2021-06-23 12:31:24	Dagmar	2. Make them reauth from each new location at the very least, and reauth every x numebr of hours
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2021-06-23 12:32:13	Dagmar	Without so much as WEP in the picture, it's even easy for an attacker to tell that the user is connecting to Comcast's webserver to perform the authentication
2021-06-23 12:32:22	-->	oldPeanut_ (~oldPeanut@i59f7a5a7.versanet.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 12:32:27	onelegend	Is there a way to give them some kind of key (like a certificate that expires)?
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2021-06-23 12:33:02	peetaur	onelegend: that's what WPA2-enterprise has
2021-06-23 12:33:04	Dagmar	Yeah but using certificate based authentication for wireless is 1) enterprise-level expensive and 2) wildy beyond what you can teach the average user to do and 3) a maintenance nightmare
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2021-06-23 12:33:41	Dagmar	No one sets up PKI for even hundreds of users, let alone hundreds of thousands of users, withotu substantial money being paid to tehm
2021-06-23 12:33:43	Dagmar	heh
2021-06-23 12:33:51	onelegend	yikes
2021-06-23 12:34:07	<--	tpg (~tpg@193.138.218.224) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 12:34:21	onelegend	or switch to WPA3?
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2021-06-23 12:34:28	Dagmar	If only 0.1% of those peopel have their clock set badly and can't connect as a result, guess how many support calls that is a day
2021-06-23 12:34:49	Dagmar	The law of large numbers is merciless
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2021-06-23 12:35:39	--	kurahaupo is now known as Martin
2021-06-23 12:35:50	tusko	NTP > manual
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2021-06-23 12:37:57	_73	I am looking for a stacking window manager that comes with a full blown gui for customization. I don't need anything fancy, just something slightly more customizable than xfwm.
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2021-06-23 12:38:52	progandy	tusko: mostly, but if your time is wrong, and you set up DoT/DoH as DNS without an exception for your NTP servers then the fun times begin
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2021-06-23 12:42:51	baldpope	@Psi-Jack, yea - they tried to get me to purchase support and I was like - no - you're shit's broken and I can prove - i'm not paying round and round we went
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2021-06-23 12:44:21	Psi-Jack	Yep. I tried to get them to fix my static IP for IPv6, because IPv4 was static, I was paying for static, so logically my IPv6 should've also been a static block. It wasn't. They tried to get me to PAY for their support, and I told them off big time. Especially when they tried to claim it was "like having your own network support in your home", and I was like. "I AM my own network engineer, quite literally!"
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2021-06-23 12:44:44	Psi-Jack	So, yeah. I will never pay AT&T one red cent ever again.
2021-06-23 12:45:11	Psi-Jack	In the end, they paid me. Because I sued them and they lost.
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2021-06-23 12:46:38	onelegend	doesn't WPA3 encrypt users' traffic to the wifi router with different keys?
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2021-06-23 12:49:48	baldpope	Psi-Jack, tell me more about your suite /subscribe
2021-06-23 12:50:01	Psi-Jack	Pardon?
2021-06-23 12:50:57	byte4byte	we wanna know about your phony lawsuit
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2021-06-23 12:51:28	onelegend	byte4byte: you again?
2021-06-23 12:51:34	RNadagoud	I'm gonna go get popcorn.
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2021-06-23 12:52:31	akik	onelegend: shhhh.. for once he's writing sane sentences
2021-06-23 12:52:38	baldpope	Psi-Jack> In the end, they paid me. Because I sued them and they lost. - just looking to know more
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2021-06-23 12:55:19	jim	byte4byte, like I said, I helped your guy and also evaluated him... he's doin good. you're pushing negativity onto the channel pretty much every time you post
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2021-06-23 12:55:52	Psi-Jack	By suggesting I had to pay for support for services I was contracted to receive, they were, at the time, in violation of FTC, so utilizing them I went after them. :)
2021-06-23 12:56:14	baldpope	ah, cool
2021-06-23 12:57:01	RNadagoud	are you still using at&t
2021-06-23 12:57:04	RNadagoud	?
2021-06-23 12:57:08	Psi-Jack	Of course not.
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2021-06-23 12:57:35	esselfe	how much did they pay? like 100, 1000, 5000?
2021-06-23 12:58:05	byte4byte	they paid him in mcburgers
2021-06-23 12:58:07	Psi-Jack	Not a whole lot, basically 2 years worth of service that was contractually violated.
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2021-06-23 12:59:11	onelegend	many US ISP companies charge for greater prices after you've used them for a year or so
2021-06-23 12:59:19	onelegend	so you have to keep switching
2021-06-23 12:59:48	Psi-Jack	onelegend: Well, I do better. I call and complain about the rate increase, and the suggestion to discontinue, so they find me "another promotion", and get it bakc. LOL
2021-06-23 13:00:00	onelegend	ah nice
2021-06-23 13:00:17	gtlsgamr	Question for everyone: Does your ISP allow exposing your IP to the world?
2021-06-23 13:00:36	onelegend	well you're kinda exposing your IP everytime you connect with another computer
2021-06-23 13:00:44	onelegend	that's just part of the IPv6 or IPv4 protocol
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2021-06-23 13:01:03	byte4byte	gtlsgamr, if they dont like it sue them
2021-06-23 13:01:16	gtlsgamr	onelegend: No I meant, live IP. As in, if you host a webserver on your computer, does your ISP allow you to let others access it over the internet?
2021-06-23 13:01:17	superkuh	Only fake ISP like offered by mobile providers don't.
2021-06-23 13:01:31	superkuh	Those are mostly "web service providers".
2021-06-23 13:01:41	drip	my local cable company doesn't, unless you pay a silly amount for a static ip block
2021-06-23 13:01:42	superkuh	A lack of owned ipv4 addresses to give out.
2021-06-23 13:01:53	superkuh	You don't need a static IP to have a real IPv4.
2021-06-23 13:02:21	drip	but my other land-based ISP here gives a real dynamic ip
2021-06-23 13:02:25	superkuh	Anyway, yeah, I've been hosting superkuh.com from my comcast home connection for almost 20 years now.
2021-06-23 13:02:35	onelegend	gtlsgamr: of course
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2021-06-23 13:02:41	onelegend	unless you are in a NATTed network
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2021-06-23 13:03:00	gtlsgamr	I am in a NATTED network. Have to use argo tunnel to expose my IP for my webserver
2021-06-23 13:03:06	onelegend	yes
2021-06-23 13:03:17	-->	elderbear (~elderbear@cpe-24-163-39-192.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 13:03:19	onelegend	or you could get a VPS, and tunnel your traffic through that
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2021-06-23 13:03:29	superkuh	I just updated the .com DNS entries every time my IP changes.
2021-06-23 13:03:32	superkuh	-d
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2021-06-23 13:04:15	gtlsgamr	I bought a raspberry pi to host my own stuff.. then realised it was a NATTED network
2021-06-23 13:04:25	gtlsgamr	So now tunneling is the only option to host for free
2021-06-23 13:04:29	onelegend	Nat'd networks are annoying as hell
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2021-06-23 13:04:53	superkuh	Sure, when it's CNAT or someone else's router.
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2021-06-23 13:05:30	byte4byte	jim can you give a python lecture in here?
2021-06-23 13:05:35	byte4byte	so we can all benefit
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2021-06-23 13:05:45	gtlsgamr	I made something like 0x0.st but in node. Wanna check it out?
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2021-06-23 13:07:19	superkuh	Last night I created new web "Can I use x?" site (re: css, js, etc features). It is ultimate version and can answer any question. You just append the feature to the end like, http://caniuse.xyz/css-backdrop-filter (a single html file with 404 redirected to it. it's a joke.)
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2021-06-23 13:08:19	gtlsgamr	superkuh: THAT is funny!
2021-06-23 13:08:27	gtlsgamr	check this out dl.hitarththummar.xyz
2021-06-23 13:08:45	-->	gector (~gector@173.241.175.189) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 13:08:54	superkuh	Now that's what I call webdesign.
2021-06-23 13:09:07	-->	damxsa (~damx@2001:16a2:cccc:1c00:83cf:acfb:7ba8:6d3a) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 13:09:08	superkuh	Hehe. Just a big ole' pre.
2021-06-23 13:09:16	superkuh	Seriously though, nice.
2021-06-23 13:09:37	gtlsgamr	html + css is always nice.
2021-06-23 13:09:54	gtlsgamr	maybe tiny javascript is okay, like for VERY minor stuff. But nothing huge
2021-06-23 13:10:03	superkuh	Yes.
2021-06-23 13:10:10	superkuh	Although you have to be careful with CSS these days, https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2019/03/15/css-css-everywhere/
2021-06-23 13:11:01	gtlsgamr	There used to be a webpage with lots of sysadmin horror stories, anyone know of it?
2021-06-23 13:11:49	gtlsgamr	https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2019/03/15/css-css-everywhere/ <<<<<<<<<<<<< This, but css can be replaced with EMACS.
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2021-06-23 13:13:15	gtlsgamr	http://somethingnothing.net/ This is something superkuh
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2021-06-23 13:14:38	superkuh	Well. That was suddenly loud.
2021-06-23 13:14:47	<--	craigevil (craig@user/craigevil) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-23 13:15:52	gtlsgamr	Hahaha let it run, it has much more stuff
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2021-06-23 13:16:31	superkuh	Yeah. Pretty cool.
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2021-06-23 13:23:15	CalimeroTeknik	lesshaste, if you read attentively I said aegisub
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2021-06-23 13:24:03	CoolerX	do you what can cause the screen to jitter up and down periodically?
2021-06-23 13:24:03	CalimeroTeknik	ah wait this channel isn't about linux, I want #kernel
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2021-06-23 13:24:31	CoolerX	my laptop screen keeps jumping up and down every 3 seconds
2021-06-23 13:24:38	CoolerX	then it stabilizes
2021-06-23 13:24:46	CoolerX	then it jitters up and down again
2021-06-23 13:24:46	gtlsgamr	Give it valium.
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2021-06-23 13:25:06	CoolerX	it's like an alarm clock or something
2021-06-23 13:25:17	gtlsgamr	Can u grab a video
2021-06-23 13:25:21	gtlsgamr	you*
2021-06-23 13:25:35	jjakob	bad cable or contacts on the mobo or screen
2021-06-23 13:25:52	CoolerX	gtlsgamr, how do I share it here?
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2021-06-23 13:26:08	gtlsgamr	youre right
2021-06-23 13:26:12	gtlsgamr	I am dum dum
2021-06-23 13:26:12	jjakob	record a video with your phone
2021-06-23 13:26:21	jjakob	and put it on youtube
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2021-06-23 13:26:33	CoolerX	jjakob, ah
2021-06-23 13:26:37	jjakob	or peertube or something
2021-06-23 13:26:39	onelegend	CalimeroTeknik: this channel is about discussing the various aspects of linux along with other Free and Open Source software
2021-06-23 13:26:44	jjakob	just joking, I don't need to see it
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2021-06-23 13:27:13	onelegend	CalimeroTeknik: so yes, this channel is about linux:)
2021-06-23 13:27:22	onelegend	including the kernel
2021-06-23 13:27:28	jjakob	#hardware
2021-06-23 13:27:43	lacroix	onelegend... of course including the kernel :)
2021-06-23 13:28:25	onelegend	the moment one realizes that linux is the kernel mind=blown
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2021-06-23 13:28:41	onelegend	I'd like to interject for a second
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2021-06-23 13:28:49	onelegend	what you're referring to is in fact GNU/Linux
2021-06-23 13:28:53	mouses	lol no
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2021-06-23 13:29:14	mouses	onelegend: don't do it *glares* ;)
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2021-06-23 13:30:29	xx	the kernel I'm running had an upgrade and it requires me to reboot the computer in order to use the new kernel. Is that a technological limitation of computers of our era, or is it simply a case of nobody having bothered yet to make it possible without a reboot?
2021-06-23 13:30:31	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Quit: Bye.)
2021-06-23 13:30:44	CalimeroTeknik	onelegend, theory: only the kernel is "linux"
2021-06-23 13:30:48	matsaman	xx: it can be done without rebooting, technically
2021-06-23 13:30:54	matsaman	xx: but doesn't ever really need to be
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2021-06-23 13:31:03	CalimeroTeknik	onelegend, unless KDE is linux too
2021-06-23 13:31:18	matsaman	in the situations where it would be most valuable -- production server clusters -- it is also least relevant, because those should have redundant systems
2021-06-23 13:31:22	jjakob	canonical has livepatch
2021-06-23 13:31:40	xx	matsaman: I see what you mean, but it would still be nice to have for regular environments too
2021-06-23 13:31:53	matsaman	livepatch is a kernel thing, all distros have it
2021-06-23 13:31:58	CalimeroTeknik	but yes when I want a command I will run on freeBSD, I add "linux" to the search terms in a search engine. not that it makes sense
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2021-06-23 13:32:16	matsaman	xx: you can have it, but your distro won't necessarily do all the work for you, just so you can avoid a future reboot
2021-06-23 13:32:59	matsaman	CalimeroTeknik: most popular term for Unix systems these days =P
2021-06-23 13:33:05	lacroix	xx,  start running the new kernel without a full reboot? use kexec
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2021-06-23 13:33:29	CoolerX	jjakob, https://share.riseup.net/#DOYQ6oKMvCMQbqJXnaKO-A
2021-06-23 13:33:30	matsaman	xx: there are two or three systems in the wild right now at least
2021-06-23 13:33:34	CoolerX	can you see that?
2021-06-23 13:33:38	CoolerX	that's the video from my phone
2021-06-23 13:33:45	CalimeroTeknik	matsaman, time to change the name to Liux: Liux Is UniX
2021-06-23 13:34:05	matsaman	=P
2021-06-23 13:34:36	onelegend	CalimeroTeknik: what did you mean when you said this channel isn't about linux?
2021-06-23 13:34:43	onelegend	I'm confused
2021-06-23 13:34:54	CoolerX	do you have any idea what is causing that?
2021-06-23 13:34:58	matsaman	it's about the OS, not the kernel
2021-06-23 13:35:11	xx	ok I see it is not easy yet
2021-06-23 13:35:11	matsaman	though obviously kernel talk is not irrelevant
2021-06-23 13:35:15	SpeakerTomeat	Hello all.
2021-06-23 13:35:17	SpeakerTomeat	Can I curse?
2021-06-23 13:35:18	matsaman	xx: it is easy
2021-06-23 13:35:22	matsaman	it's not all-work-done-for-you
2021-06-23 13:35:25	matsaman	not unless you pay money
2021-06-23 13:35:33	xx	matsaman: I very much doubt all my devices are in a sane state :D
2021-06-23 13:35:33	SpeakerTomeat	CalimeroTeknik, hey
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2021-06-23 13:35:36	matsaman	SpeakerTomeat: fsck no
2021-06-23 13:35:41	matsaman	xx: most aren't =)
2021-06-23 13:35:41	onelegend	mastsman: this channel is about anything related to linux, including linux itself (which is the kernel)
2021-06-23 13:35:42	SpeakerTomeat	matsaman, I have like 0.00000000001 btc
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2021-06-23 13:35:55	SpeakerTomeat	Is there any gui download manager for linux that's not crap?
2021-06-23 13:36:07	matsaman	download managers are all crap, so probably not
2021-06-23 13:36:08	CalimeroTeknik	onelegend, I came to discuss netlink interface access control and was surprised that my question seemed not so relevant!
2021-06-23 13:36:18	matsaman	onelegend: feel like I just said that
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2021-06-23 13:36:31	SpeakerTomeat	In the era of firefox I used to use downthemall which was integrated... I'd like something gui nice. Most of the time I just use wget or curl. but I wouldn't mind a gui one
2021-06-23 13:36:35	onelegend	matsaman: you can discuss the kernel in here:)
2021-06-23 13:36:38	SpeakerTomeat	matsaman, yeah what happened there
2021-06-23 13:36:44	matsaman	onelegend: feel like I just said that
2021-06-23 13:36:44	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, https://www.qbittorrent.org/
2021-06-23 13:36:49	CalimeroTeknik	SpeakerTomeat, er, yes?
2021-06-23 13:36:49	matsaman	CoolerX: heh
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2021-06-23 13:37:11	SpeakerTomeat	CalimeroTeknik, just greeting, unless you're not the calimero I've seen in other rooms
2021-06-23 13:37:21	SpeakerTomeat	probably not, I don't remember the teknik, sorry, nevermind
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2021-06-23 13:37:36	CalimeroTeknik	I don't know, I also go by `calimero`
2021-06-23 13:37:38	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, aint qbittorrent torrent only? I mostly need http/ftp
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2021-06-23 13:38:00	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, yeah you can try filezilla or something idk
2021-06-23 13:38:05	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, with segmented download if possible
2021-06-23 13:38:21	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, that's up to the server
2021-06-23 13:38:29	CoolerX	the server needs to support it
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2021-06-23 13:38:57	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, the server needs to support it for download resuming, but the client also needs to support it for parallel downloading
2021-06-23 13:39:09	SpeakerTomeat	well the server AND client need it for parallel
2021-06-23 13:39:38	CalimeroTeknik	onelegend, fair, the linux kernel is included, but the discussions are actually about free software distributions, somewhat explicitly; reminds me of my grandpa asking me for a transistor, I said "NPN or PNP?" and he didn't get it; he meant a fully operational radio receptor
2021-06-23 13:39:51	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, there are some sites that download the file and convert it to a torrent for you
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2021-06-23 13:41:27	CoolerX	http://www.urlhash.com/
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2021-06-23 13:42:14	CoolerX	anyone know what could be causing the jitter shown in this video? https://share.riseup.net/#DOYQ6oKMvCMQbqJXnaKO-A
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2021-06-23 13:43:44	SpeakerTomeat	hmm that looks bad
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2021-06-23 13:45:33	Ashu	Hello guys, I recently found out about this channel from the discord server and decided to join and say a "Hi" to you all :)
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2021-06-23 13:46:08	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, I would personally try a different resolution first. it's a displacement of every other line so it looks like a sync issue. maybe hardware failure, but by changing sync speed with a different resolution I'd check to see if it changes first
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2021-06-23 13:47:20	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, hmm
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2021-06-23 13:49:20	freedomcum	did anyone install the new win11 iso its pretty good ?
2021-06-23 13:49:32	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, but... sincerely, if this is a sync issue, the interlaced draw is most probably a protocol between lcd and gpu, so I'd suspect hardware issue.
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2021-06-23 13:50:20	SpeakerTomeat	CoolerX, it doesn't look like the usual baddly soldered gpu apple failure thoiugh (unless it is an apple), looks more like probably a cable (flex), or lcd pannel controller issue to me
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2021-06-23 13:50:44	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, seems to have fixed itself
2021-06-23 13:50:49	CoolerX	didn't have to change anything
2021-06-23 13:51:00	SpeakerTomeat	with resolution change? or just alone?
2021-06-23 13:51:02	CoolerX	not sure what caused it but now it's magically gone
2021-06-23 13:51:12	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, no I didn't do anything
2021-06-23 13:51:13	SpeakerTomeat	did you close and reopen the lid since the failure?
2021-06-23 13:51:27	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, yes but that didn't fix it
2021-06-23 13:51:37	SpeakerTomeat	ok
2021-06-23 13:51:40	CoolerX	I thought maybe the display cable is getting broken at the hinge
2021-06-23 13:51:45	SpeakerTomeat	Well, good luck. hope it stays fixed
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2021-06-23 13:51:59	CoolerX	SpeakerTomeat, it happened a few days ago too
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2021-06-23 13:52:16	CoolerX	I think it will happen again at some poit
2021-06-23 13:52:20	CoolerX	point*
2021-06-23 13:52:32	CalimeroTeknik	doesn't seem to be a defective TFT panel
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2021-06-23 13:52:49	petrj	freedomcum: really? they announced in 2015 here https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Ignite/2015/BRK2352 that win10 will be the last version. yet again can't trust anything comes from microsoft..
2021-06-23 13:52:51	CalimeroTeknik	controller I don't know, but the first suspect would be the video driver for me
2021-06-23 13:53:29	freedomcum	yeah its gonna be better linux 2
2021-06-23 13:54:10	<--	cadderly (~~@user/cadderly) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 13:54:12	raccoon_dog	petrj: They're a troll; ignore them.
2021-06-23 13:54:33	SpeakerTomeat	petrj, Yup, there was a leak of the testing version a couple days ago
2021-06-23 13:54:56	SpeakerTomeat	petrj, and MS was supposed to anounce it end of this week
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2021-06-23 13:55:36	SpeakerTomeat	petrj, several youtube channels have been doing reviews. ANd yeah MS said 10 was the last windows, it's something several of those youtube channels have mentioned as well
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2021-06-23 13:56:07	johnnyapol	windows 11 announcement is tomorrow at 11am i believe
2021-06-23 13:56:17	 *	Psi-Jack yawnsa.
2021-06-23 13:56:29	Psi-Jack	I could've sworn we were in a Linux channel.
2021-06-23 13:56:36	SpeakerTomeat	Holy, Psi-Jack lives
2021-06-23 13:56:53	CoolerX	CalimeroTeknik, it's LCD I think not TFT
2021-06-23 13:56:55	SpeakerTomeat	And you haven't changed :)
2021-06-23 13:57:11	CoolerX	actually nvm
2021-06-23 13:57:25	CoolerX	guess TFT is used in LCD screens
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2021-06-23 13:57:51	CoolerX	oh actually tis is an IPS panel
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2021-06-23 13:59:17	petrj	i have moved away from windows to linux (and sometimes mac on office computer). it's been a true relief from resource consumption (to run the OS alone..) viewpoint and lightweight feeling in general on Alpine Linux with dwm on baremetal.. i only regret why i didn't switch like 10 years ago. :/
2021-06-23 13:59:26	Psi-Jack	SpeakerTomeat: Actually I have. I'm generally more silent, and not attacking everyone for all the annoyances they do, like spelling nevermind as nvm. :p
2021-06-23 13:59:54	SpeakerTomeat	Psi-Jack, I hope that means you feel calmer as well
2021-06-23 14:00:31	Psi-Jack	SpeakerTomeat: Well, I have a great girlfriend, and horrible hopefully-finally-soon-to-be-ex-wife.
2021-06-23 14:00:59	SpeakerTomeat	Good. all you need now is a puppy or a kitty
2021-06-23 14:01:09	Psi-Jack	I still have 4 dogs. 2 too many. :/
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2021-06-23 14:01:43	Psi-Jack	My horrible hopefully-finally-soon-to-be-ex-wife was supposed to take 2. She did not.
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2021-06-23 14:03:24	peetaur	Psi-Jack: what kind of dogs are they?
2021-06-23 14:03:58	Psi-Jack	Anklebiters. :) Min Pin, Dachshund, Chihuahua, and Pomeranian.
2021-06-23 14:04:11	kurahaupo	Psi-Jack: My wife and I were deeply incompatible; I left because I don't want to be angry with her, nobody really deserves that.
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2021-06-23 14:04:35	Psi-Jack	kurahaupo: Same. Mine was just a narcissist from hell.
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2021-06-23 14:05:39	kurahaupo	That may or may not be true, but if you've already left, there's no benefit to you in airing stale issues
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2021-06-23 14:06:50	kurahaupo	(There's certainly no benefit to us listening to them)
2021-06-23 14:06:52	<--	rifl (~user@user/rifl) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 14:07:00	Psi-Jack	Well, she left, but yes, she was, not may be, was. EVerything had to be her way or no way.
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2021-06-23 14:07:49	kurahaupo	This isn't an emotional support channel. PM me if you want to discuss further
2021-06-23 14:07:57	lacroix	kurahaupo, back off.
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2021-06-23 14:08:35	peetaur	yeah dude ..pm? it should be in #linux-offtopic-wife-troubles
2021-06-23 14:08:46	petrj	lol
2021-06-23 14:08:54	hexoroid	sup ladys
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2021-06-23 14:09:09	lacroix	hello hexoroid
2021-06-23 14:09:10	kurahaupo	lacroix: I'd ask what's your problem except that would also be off topic
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2021-06-23 14:09:35	Sauvin	I think we could be a bit more sensitive and tactful.
2021-06-23 14:09:36	hexoroid	how have you been lacroix? i suppose same old
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2021-06-23 14:10:20	kurahaupo	peetaur: What about husband problems?
2021-06-23 14:10:30	peetaur	I can complain about my wife too... (but I'm still the only one in the channel...) yesterday she said she would make home made ice cream, but she didn't! and she said it's because be don't have any whipping cream and town is 10km away and our car is at the garage. Such lame excuses, right?
2021-06-23 14:10:31	lacroix	hexoroid.. same old indeed. With a couple more turns around the sun :)
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2021-06-23 14:10:47	peetaur	kurahaupo: oh sorry...let's change the name to #linux-offtopic-wife-husband-or-similar-troubles
2021-06-23 14:11:22	Sauvin	#linux-offtopic-relationship-woes
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2021-06-23 14:12:49	orbisvicis	I want to create a pdf from groups of images, with images randomly (or better) placed on a single page per group, any way to automate this?
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2021-06-23 14:14:19	petrj	orbiscicis: that's how sprite images are created. algorithm is formally known as "rectangle packing" and goes in the category of calculus. PDF part is being specific to your usecase though, but yea it is possible to automate that.
2021-06-23 14:14:41	petrj	s/being/bit
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2021-06-23 14:16:34	orbisvicis	heh I'm not looking to implement a rectangle packing algorithm. preferably prebuilt software, maybe a latex template?
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2021-06-23 14:19:11	xx	is it safe to apt purge currently running kernel? I do have a different kernel available on disk for next boot.
2021-06-23 14:19:25	xx	Just wondering if the current kernel, or anything else, expects the kernel files to still be on the disk
2021-06-23 14:19:34	orbisvicis	hmm ill first try vertical concatenation in python/PIL, then img2pdf
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2021-06-23 14:20:12	ananke	xx: generally speaking, yes, it's safe. though if you happen to need to load any new modules, you will run into problems. say you attach some new device
2021-06-23 14:20:14	_73	I am using the following rsync command, yet for some reason my /.snapshots directory is still being rsynced. I have tried various syntactic methods to fix this but no matter what I do it it continues to rsync the /.snapshots dir. `sudo rsync -aAXv / --exclude={"/.snapshots/*", ...} /mnt/`
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2021-06-23 14:21:05	xx	ananke: should be fine then, thanks
2021-06-23 14:21:57	akik	_73: it's just --exclude=.snapshots
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2021-06-23 14:22:55	ananke	xx: though last time I checked, debian/ubunty will not easily let you remove packages for currently running kernel, which is a bit idiotic imho
2021-06-23 14:23:41	_73	thank you akik it worked
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2021-06-23 14:24:49	xx	ananke: I worked around that
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2021-06-23 14:25:04	xx	my problem is that the current /boot is too small, so I need to make space
2021-06-23 14:25:34	Dagmar	Oh you're going to have ever so much fun
2021-06-23 14:25:58	xx	I know... A full reinstall is on the neverending todo list
2021-06-23 14:26:05	-->	xinming (~xinming@115.219.33.27) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 14:26:15	Dagmar	I am a cheap-ass about disk space as well, but I don't go below 768Mb for /boot
2021-06-23 14:26:19	ananke	yeah, tiny /boot is such a pita
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2021-06-23 14:26:26	akik	that's what she said
2021-06-23 14:26:31	Dagmar	...unless I'm doing full-LVM
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2021-06-23 14:26:47	xinming	anyone here knows a file utility which split a file into multiple small files, while also keeps checksum, so maybe 1 or 2 files damaged, and we can still restore the file?
2021-06-23 14:26:50	xx	/boot is not in LVM unfortunately
2021-06-23 14:27:03	xx	xinming: par
2021-06-23 14:27:11	Dagmar	xinming: PAR format is the only thing I'm aware of that will do that
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2021-06-23 14:29:42	xinming	xx: thx, will check it. I thought we need something to impleement it. :-)
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2021-06-23 14:31:50	xinming	Dagmar: thx to you too. :-)
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2021-06-23 14:32:04	byte4byte	jim is php better than python?
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2021-06-23 14:32:27	jim	xinming, please use 'thanks', not 'thx'; for booting with lvm, you have to have a way to deal with lvm in those moments before the machine has loaded everything... the way that's usually done is to have /boot in a partition (not in lvm)
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2021-06-23 14:33:37	xinming	jim: ok.
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2021-06-23 14:37:09	jjakob	jim: you don't need that since grub2 supports lvm
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2021-06-23 14:37:15	jjakob	it even supports luks
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2021-06-23 14:37:40	jjakob	you only need a separate esp if you run uefi
2021-06-23 14:37:56	jjakob	no need for a separate /boot at all
2021-06-23 14:38:10	jim	oh ok, that makes sense
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2021-06-23 14:47:03	TheFreim	Audio through my HDMI cable randomly is now delayed by nearly a whole second, ugh!
2021-06-23 14:47:56	Revelator	Using a high speed hdmi cable?
2021-06-23 14:48:04	Khaytsus	As opposed to what
2021-06-23 14:48:18	clarity	Shouldn't make any difference
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2021-06-23 14:48:38	jundran	I got rid of all my audio issues by getting rid of pulse audio
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2021-06-23 14:48:50	akik	there was some setting for pulseaudio to take out that delay
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2021-06-23 14:49:08	TheFreim	Revelator: yesterday was working fine most of the day, stopped working randomly at one point.
2021-06-23 14:49:09	akik	when you for example use an amplifier for hdmi connectivity
2021-06-23 14:49:11	TheFreim	Might be a cable issue.
2021-06-23 14:49:18	Khaytsus	jundran: Silly way to do it
2021-06-23 14:49:30	Khaytsus	PA just works, has for many years
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2021-06-23 14:50:04	jundran	PA is bloatware you don't need
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2021-06-23 14:50:05	TheFreim	I've never had *much* issue with PA, only a couple times over the last ~year I've been full time linux.
2021-06-23 14:50:09	Kyv	So does ALSA.
2021-06-23 14:50:18	 *	Khaytsus rolls eyes
2021-06-23 14:50:38	Khaytsus	Then you gotta add mixers and fix every modern app to somehow twork with alsa again directly.
2021-06-23 14:50:40	TheFreim	I must say that ALSA works just as well once you configure it properly to have multiple audio playing at once
2021-06-23 14:50:44	Khaytsus	So silly.
2021-06-23 14:51:00	Khaytsus	PA just works and no configuration needed for mixing ;)
2021-06-23 14:51:02	 *	Khaytsus shrugs
2021-06-23 14:51:04	johnnyapol	PA usually worked fine for me, but I switched to pipewire and have been pretty happy with it. There's the occasional hiccup
2021-06-23 14:51:04	clarity	ALSA used to work just fine, then PA came and messed everything up
2021-06-23 14:51:05	Kyv	Maybe you have a dated experience with it too.
2021-06-23 14:51:05	TheFreim	but PA works fine as well
2021-06-23 14:51:18	TheFreim	I really don't care either way, both work fine and since I am used to pulse i stick with pulse.
2021-06-23 14:51:26	akik	i think it's this line in default.pa "load-module module-suspend-on-idle" so disable that by commenting it out
2021-06-23 14:51:34	Revelator	Khaytsus: And overall there is a tad difference between high speed and the so called "category 1" hdmi cables, mostly when it comes to 4k and hz though from what I've experienced.
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2021-06-23 14:52:51	Kyv	The only pulse-related package you need is libpulse, from my experience, that fulfills whatever application requiring pulseaudio.
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2021-06-23 14:53:06	jundran	"just works" you sound like a mactard
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2021-06-23 14:54:24	Kyv	Otherwise you unmute your sound, install perhaps alsa-utils (for alsamixer), I have not had difficulty with auto-detect devices, sample rate conversion, apps not working etc.
2021-06-23 14:54:57	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 14:55:11	Kyv	Oh, the caveat is of course on GNOME that will likely not be feasible to remove it anyway.
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2021-06-23 14:55:28	TheFreim	I shall return.
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2021-06-23 14:55:40	johnnyapol	jundran:honestly for a lot of general computing, wouldn't you want things to "just work" at the very least? I'm still a big linux user but I love it when things work without me fighting with it
2021-06-23 14:56:24	jundran	I'm on Arch so if it just works then it's broken XD
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2021-06-23 14:57:55	petrj	i just add patches to my script so i don't have to re-live "figuring out every single bit" twice
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2021-06-23 14:58:19	TheFreim	Yeah commenting that out worked, audio is fine now. Strange how for months its been fine but randomly started sleeping.
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2021-06-23 14:59:01	Khaytsus	TheFreim: What did you change?
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2021-06-23 14:59:33	Khaytsus	I made a random PA change once and forgot to restart PA and a few weeks later after rebooting was quite puzzled why something was wonky with JACK.
2021-06-23 14:59:44	TheFreim	Khaytsus: in /etc/pulse/default.pa commented out "load-module module-suspend-on-idle"
2021-06-23 15:00:03	akik	eggcellent
2021-06-23 15:00:09	TheFreim	I wonder if a system update caused it and it just took until restarting pulse to cause the problem to arise.
2021-06-23 15:00:15	Dagmar	Seems like someone should ahve tested that before rolling it out to production
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2021-06-23 15:00:23	Khaytsus	TheFreim: What was the issue, the "slow hdmi" audio?
2021-06-23 15:00:25	<--	skapata (~Skapata@user/skapata) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 15:00:27	TheFreim	Yes
2021-06-23 15:00:31	TheFreim	Now its FAST! :P
2021-06-23 15:00:32	Dagmar	I can think of a few ways it could go awry
2021-06-23 15:00:40	Khaytsus	TheFreim: Interesting.  heh.  faster than the video! oh no
2021-06-23 15:00:48	autopsy	HDMI audio isn't what everybody thinks its cracked up to be.
2021-06-23 15:00:50	TheFreim	Not that fast lol
2021-06-23 15:00:57	autopsy	Its stupid actually.
2021-06-23 15:01:03	Dagmar	Volume settings "randomly" returning to defaults being one of them
2021-06-23 15:01:07	TheFreim	I just use hdmi audio since i dont like headphones and dont want to buy a speaker
2021-06-23 15:01:09	Khaytsus	I usually have to beat up audio modules to not suspend so they don't pop or whatever when they go into power savings.
2021-06-23 15:01:21	Dagmar	Yeah that being another one
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2021-06-23 15:01:31	akik	autopsy: if you just want to hear your music or videos, it's fine
2021-06-23 15:01:44	Khaytsus	I only use HDMI audio for one thing, and very seldom..  but it does seem to generally just work
2021-06-23 15:01:52	autopsy	Its a voltage potential on the milliwire audio jack phone dorc device aqnd the speaker and the amplifier.
2021-06-23 15:02:23	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Quit: Bye.)
2021-06-23 15:02:23	Dagmar	Khaytus: A cheap alternative to buying two more speakers to go from 5.1 to 7.1?
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2021-06-23 15:02:54	Khaytsus	I technically have 5 sound cards, and I switch between 3 of them regularly, so I have it scripted as to what's the default rather than pavucontrol or whatnot.
2021-06-23 15:03:16	Dagmar	Oh.  *I've* been that cheap before
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2021-06-23 15:03:21	autopsy	Theres actually nothing wrong with PulseAudio its just nobody feels like saying thank you for PA and thannk you for Pulseeffects and thank you Lennart for your worthelsss tirade into stupid shit like no root audio and then of course audio on webpages can be compromised to elevate privileges and duh you guys are dumb.
2021-06-23 15:03:37	Dagmar	Classic autopsy.
2021-06-23 15:03:51	<--	fedenix (~fedenix@gateway/tor-sasl/fedenix) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 15:03:56	autopsy	I'm a classic potatoe chip the one with ridges.
2021-06-23 15:04:13	Khaytsus	Everyone stopped bitching at Lennart about PA when systemd came out.
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2021-06-23 15:04:20	Dagmar	Hehe
2021-06-23 15:04:21	Khaytsus	Except a few bored little neckbeards
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2021-06-23 15:04:26	Dagmar	Bigger fish
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2021-06-23 15:04:58	autopsy	We mean don't come knocking on my back door my butt hole or nothing dont even flinch at my bare.i
2021-06-23 15:05:13	Khaytsus	Go drunk, you're home autopsy
2021-06-23 15:05:15	Kyv	No, they want something broken or they want to fix it until it breaks.
2021-06-23 15:05:27	autopsy	They of course.
2021-06-23 15:05:30	<--	node1 (~node1@user/node1) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 15:05:31	autopsy	Its not you.
2021-06-23 15:05:37	autopsy	Never is it you of course.
2021-06-23 15:05:40	Kyv	Why would it be me?
2021-06-23 15:05:51	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 15:05:55	Kyv	I dont use PulseAudio because its unnecessary.
2021-06-23 15:06:02	TheFreim	Understandable
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2021-06-23 15:06:18	autopsy	Well. Says the Gnome garden Santa clause clause in the paperwork of the NSA and the Toe nail biting with the teeth all day richard. Nobody knows Kyv
2021-06-23 15:06:28	-->	u0_a117 (~u0_a117@177.10.203.30) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 15:06:29	autopsy	But we know its you of course.
2021-06-23 15:06:45	jundran	WIth pulseaudio I had issues with audio crackling and devices randomly not showing up. Better to just use alsa and create a separate asoundrc files then use aliases to load those files through a symlink
2021-06-23 15:06:53	Khaytsus	autopsy: You should cut back on the meth
2021-06-23 15:07:04	autopsy	I should I know.
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2021-06-23 15:07:14	TheFreim	jundran: i had audio crackling right before the audio delay started happening, hmmmmm. Very picious.
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2021-06-23 15:07:35	autopsy	I should cut my losses and rememeber its better to not use pulseaudio because of devices not showing up and crackling and popping like I popped a pimple.
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2021-06-23 15:07:56	Khaytsus	autopsy: Go away and come back when you're sober.
2021-06-23 15:08:01	Khaytsus	So..  2035?
2021-06-23 15:08:02	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-23 15:08:07	TheFreim	CRAP, the delay is now back -_-
2021-06-23 15:08:15	autopsy	2038
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2021-06-23 15:08:25	Khaytsus	TheFreim: It's karma for feeding the neckbeard
2021-06-23 15:08:27	u0_a117	hi
2021-06-23 15:08:42	TheFreim	Khaytsus: 🙃
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2021-06-23 15:09:16	autopsy	You guys arent happy with nothing you could be in the desert with a cactus up your ass and still not be happy Whats with that crap?
2021-06-23 15:09:17	<--	u0_a117 (~u0_a117@191.35.121.71) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-23 15:09:19	autopsy	Ok I go.
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2021-06-23 15:09:28	autopsy	I stop I go away go now stop away.
2021-06-23 15:09:36	 *	lacroix raises her left eyebrow
2021-06-23 15:10:09	TheFreim	Restarting pulseaudio seems to fix the issue temporarily. At least now the problem is reproducable. Gonna see if i can figure out a permanent solution from here, have a good start.
2021-06-23 15:10:55	u0_a117	humm
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2021-06-23 15:15:48	Psi-Jack	Heh, I can't believe that my "Room Detector" based on Raspberry Pi ZeroW's, has been functioning flawlessly for a year now, in determining and reporting people in my house based on known things they have (cell phone, watch, etc).
2021-06-23 15:17:08	Khaytsus	Psi-Jack: What, you have one in each room?
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2021-06-23 15:17:46	Psi-Jack	Yep. I have a P0W in my office, spare bedroom, master bedroom, living room, kitchen, and garage.
2021-06-23 15:17:59	Psi-Jack	Well, some are P0W's, some are OP0W's.
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2021-06-23 15:20:03	TheFreim	That's a cool idea
2021-06-23 15:20:07	Psi-Jack	heh yeah.
2021-06-23 15:20:09	TheFreim	What did you use to set that up, Psi-Jack?
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2021-06-23 15:21:27	Psi-Jack	Well, it revolves around HomeAssistant, as the core brains to everything, since I smart-housed my own home. And then, the P0W's are using room-assistant, which HASS integrates with, to logically report "presence" within specific parameters of known devices set up. And room-assistant is just magic after that.
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2021-06-23 15:24:10	Psi-Jack	You can, technically, also integrate your own customized "sensors" with it too, using the GPIO, shell scripts, and such. But, I simply went with BTLE+BT, which just about every device I use and care about advertises.
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2021-06-23 15:26:15	droptone	I have a questiono - I'm trying to simply write a httpd conf rule, or a .htaccess rule, to forward domain A to domain B, both http and https
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2021-06-23 15:26:40	droptone	Forwarding http is fine, but every time I try to forward httpd I get a cert error in the browser
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2021-06-23 15:27:05	droptone	I can't find an example via googling because if I attempt to researach this topic, no mattter what search criteria I use, I get 10 pages of articles on "how to rewrite / forward http to https" which is not what I'm trying to do
2021-06-23 15:27:17	Psi-Jack	droptone: Is the certificate correct?
2021-06-23 15:27:22	c705	use a rewrite rule and 301 to https
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2021-06-23 15:27:30	Psi-Jack	For /both/ domains?
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2021-06-23 15:27:46	droptone	For domain A, the domain I simply want forwarded, there is no cert. Do I need to purchaase a cert for a domain I simply want 301 redirected to domain B?
2021-06-23 15:27:58	Psi-Jack	301 may or may not be correct, actually. 301 is intended for absolutely permanent relocation.
2021-06-23 15:28:06	c705	if you want https to work, then you need a signed cert for that domain
2021-06-23 15:28:08	droptone	I literaally want users, viaa either http or https, when accessing domaina.com, to auto-forward to domainb.com
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2021-06-23 15:28:27	Psi-Jack	droptone: The certificate has to be valid for /both/ domains to forward https to https./
2021-06-23 15:28:28	droptone	So even though I'm 301 redirecting the domain to aanother domaian entirely, I still have to buy a cert for the domain to be forwarded
2021-06-23 15:28:37	Psi-Jack	Yes
2021-06-23 15:28:38	droptone	ok
2021-06-23 15:28:43	droptone	Well thank you, that explains it
2021-06-23 15:28:48	Psi-Jack	Or just use Let's Encrypt. :p
2021-06-23 15:28:56	c705	you don't have to purchase a cert, but you need a signed certificate
2021-06-23 15:28:57	droptone	let's encrypt?
2021-06-23 15:29:05	Psi-Jack	Free SSL Certificates. Look it up.
2021-06-23 15:29:16	rob`	certbot is magical
2021-06-23 15:29:25	Psi-Jack	No, certbot sucks. acme.sh is where it's at.
2021-06-23 15:29:29	droptone	Yup, I'm on it, I'll just do self signed if the various mainstream browsers have it listed as a CA
2021-06-23 15:29:42	Psi-Jack	Let's Encrypt is browser accepted.
2021-06-23 15:29:50	droptone	great, thanks much
2021-06-23 15:29:58	Psi-Jack	droptone: if you self-sign, users would still get stopped.
2021-06-23 15:30:01	rob`	loving letsencrypt, just switched to it a couple weeks ago
2021-06-23 15:30:10	droptone	right
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2021-06-23 15:30:52	Skyz	Hi
2021-06-23 15:30:56	<--	Hanii (~textual@2a00:23c5:c587:6d00:cd05:225d:4014:3175) has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-06-23 15:30:59	Skyz	What's so great about linux?
2021-06-23 15:31:14	Psi-Jack	Everything. And nothing.
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2021-06-23 15:31:19	themachine	Accurate
2021-06-23 15:31:22	Khaytsus	Skyz: No bridges here, please find another place.
2021-06-23 15:31:35	droptone	So I just got on freenode to access this and suddenly the nick I had registered for the pasa 10 years wsa taken by some random person, and then I read an article that there was a hostile takeover of freenode by some crown prince and everyone is moved here
2021-06-23 15:31:40	droptone	Is that the story?
2021-06-23 15:31:55	Psi-Jack	droptone: Freenode is no longer freenode. End of story.
2021-06-23 15:31:56	c705	yes google it
2021-06-23 15:32:09	Khaytsus	what Psi-Jack said..  Freenode is gone, libera replaces it.  End of story.
2021-06-23 15:32:10	droptone	I did google it, that's how I know the story I just told, I'm asking you people
2021-06-23 15:32:17	droptone	Thanks psi-jaack
2021-06-23 15:32:20	droptone	Makes sense
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2021-06-23 15:32:36	curdlesnoot	droptone: all the existing user registrations were purged just recently. very strange.
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2021-06-23 15:32:51	droptone	Wow, what on earth.
2021-06-23 15:32:54	Khaytsus	Not strange, it's ran by morons now.
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2021-06-23 15:35:09	Kyv	Is that why guy always seems so happy?
2021-06-23 15:35:13	Kyv	because he is a moron?
2021-06-23 15:35:31	drip	i kinda wish i was a moron, i would be so much happier overall
2021-06-23 15:36:25	Kyv	Everything being a resounding success -- in your mind.
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2021-06-23 15:37:28	droptone	Ignoraance is not bliss, it's dangerous and depressing, it leads to a shitshow of a life
2021-06-23 15:37:34	droptone	So don't wish you were a moron, lol
2021-06-23 15:37:55	Kyv	Dont stomp on their dreams
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2021-06-23 15:38:30	Skyz	I'm blue pilled
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2021-06-23 15:39:35	 *	drip intensifies attempts to get brain damage
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2021-06-23 15:39:48	Skyz	"Taking the easy way out, choosing to ignore the harsh reality and live in blissful ignorance.
2021-06-23 15:39:49	Skyz	"You take the blue pill -- the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe." Morpheus, The Matrix"
2021-06-23 15:40:15	 *	Psi-Jack yawns.
2021-06-23 15:40:27	 *	Khaytsus takes the purple pill
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2021-06-23 15:41:06	Dagmar	Man I'm having a smoothbrain day
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2021-06-23 15:41:39	Dagmar	I could have sworn that my $var = $this || $that; would behave like $that is the default value
2021-06-23 15:42:14	c705	perl ):
2021-06-23 15:42:46	Dagmar	Definitely having a smoothbrain day.  I looked at the next line and sure enough I was still using $that
2021-06-23 15:43:14	jim	wouldn't that be defined($this) ? $this : $that?
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2021-06-23 15:43:40	Dagmar	Friends don't let friends use ternary operators.
2021-06-23 15:44:03	jim	then you're stuck with an if chain :)
2021-06-23 15:44:09	Dagmar	No, I'm not.
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2021-06-23 15:44:33	clf59	There's a meme in there somewhere about blue/red pills and the colors of our US political parties...but I'll keep that to myself.
2021-06-23 15:44:38	Dagmar	In the example I gave, if $this is undef it'll be false and the next value is the one that's chosen, making the whole thing equal to the second value.
2021-06-23 15:44:50	--	systemd is now known as theoretical_cast
2021-06-23 15:45:01	petrj	if and only if (iff) == XNOR
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2021-06-23 15:45:12	Dagmar	No if statement needed at all.
2021-06-23 15:45:17	jim	I got a green pill...
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2021-06-23 15:45:36	Psi-Jack	I just got white and brown pills
2021-06-23 15:46:08	Skyz	I could have red-pilled today but that seemed like hell
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2021-06-23 15:49:41	Dagmar	Basically, because it's still an evaluation it's equal to the result (which sounds tautological)
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2021-06-23 15:50:07	Dagmar	(undefined values are always considered false)
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2021-06-23 15:50:45	Dagmar	The same thing can be done with regular expression assignments, but _that_ form is a little unpleasant to look at
2021-06-23 15:51:17	Dagmar	It makes for some compact stuff tho since you can do an if (my $value = validateValue($value)) {}
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2021-06-23 15:51:45	Dagmar	Well, I suppose in that case an unless() would be in order, but you get the idea.
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2021-06-23 15:52:09	Dagmar	Now if there were just a simple way to evaluate an entire tree of access labels.
2021-06-23 15:52:18	<--	catman (~catman@user/catman370) has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-06-23 15:52:25	jim	Dagmar, but would that give you a true/false if it -should- be assigned?
2021-06-23 15:52:50	Dagmar	If the called function returned undef if the variable didn't pass the validation check?
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2021-06-23 15:53:00	deb	c
2021-06-23 15:53:00	jim	tautological maybe, except one should consider how it actually works
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2021-06-23 15:53:19	Dagmar	An assignment's value is equal to it's assignment.
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2021-06-23 15:53:31	Dagmar	...which is a little hard to wrap the brain around sometimes, I'll admit.
2021-06-23 15:53:35	jim	Dagmar, that sounds like it'd work
2021-06-23 15:53:44	Dagmar	$f = 5 is itself equal to 5
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2021-06-23 15:53:59	jim	I understand that part
2021-06-23 15:54:02	<--	catman (~catman@user/catman370) has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-06-23 15:54:31	Dagmar	jim: Well, I mean, it _does_ work.  When I said I was having a smoothbrain day it was because Id' just done it and got "ARRAY(0x482340)" up on the screen instead of an orderly set of divs
2021-06-23 15:54:32	jim	(this is good, I'm supposed to try to bring back my perl chops)
2021-06-23 15:55:18	HumbleGuy	how do i set terminal window opacity? i am using picom commpositor, suckless terminal
2021-06-23 15:55:31	Dagmar	I was doing some low-rent overloading of a subroutine that normally just takes two strings, the first being a box title, and the second being the stuff that goes in the box
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2021-06-23 15:56:23	Dagmar	I just added an if (ref $message eq 'ARRAY') that goes and iterates the items in the array to turn them into div objects
2021-06-23 15:56:53	Dagmar	So it was going on to my $content = $divs || $message;
2021-06-23 15:56:59	<--	agialluca (~Gialluca@user/agialluca) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-23 15:57:07	Dagmar	...and then I had a derp and was just using $message to return instead of $content;
2021-06-23 15:57:29	byte4byte	jim can you teach everyone php instead of python?
2021-06-23 15:57:44	hodapp	NO
2021-06-23 15:57:47	jim	probably you might speak to sauvin, he's got the perl chops
2021-06-23 15:58:06	byte4byte	perl is for losers
2021-06-23 15:58:09	byte4byte	i wanna know php
2021-06-23 15:58:16	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 15:58:27	jim	then learn it :) I don't know it
2021-06-23 15:58:48	Dagmar	Just learn perl and then do a bad job of it
2021-06-23 15:59:03	Dagmar	It'll be PHP.
2021-06-23 15:59:04	DLange	that probably parses as php then ;-)
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2021-06-23 15:59:23	Dagmar	My friends thought it was cute to ask me to debug some code once wihtout telling me it was PHP.
2021-06-23 15:59:39	byte4byte	jim youre greedy with your knowledge
2021-06-23 15:59:54	Dagmar	THe problem was in their logic, and I came back to them with the solution to that part and "...but the rest of the code is a buggy mess"
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2021-06-23 16:00:09	jim	byte4byte, I don't have the knowledge to be greedy about :)
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2021-06-23 16:00:29	Dagmar	Many of PHP's functions are identical to perl's, but the arguments are in the wrong order.
2021-06-23 16:00:48	DLange	because perl is correct. By definition!
2021-06-23 16:01:02	jim	byte4byte, be careful... your behavior is suggesting to me, that you're not a good fit for this channel
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2021-06-23 16:01:35	byte4byte	oh i get it, kick anyone who wants to learn
2021-06-23 16:02:33	DLange	I think it is more about being annoying over wanting (or faking to want) to learn
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2021-06-23 16:02:49	jim	byte4byte, is english your native/most comfortable language?
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2021-06-23 16:04:04	Kyv	HumbleGuy: bad option - set opacity rule in picom for st, good option - patch st with alpha patch and set transparency through C header.
2021-06-23 16:04:07	jim	(the algorithm seems to be... troll troll troll get message about behavior pause troll troll troll
2021-06-23 16:04:11	jim	)
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2021-06-23 16:04:52	curdlesnoot	with no amount of python tutoring being the solution, I'd wager.
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2021-06-23 16:05:46	DLange	gee, pinPoint, you could have used the opportunity of moving to Libera to upgrade to Linux as well :)
2021-06-23 16:05:49	Kyv	HumbleGuy: theres a chance alpha patch will break w3m-img patch.
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2021-06-23 16:08:18	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i patched already st with alpha, put opacity at 0.7 but nothing changes
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2021-06-23 16:09:12	Kyv	.. did you recompile it?
2021-06-23 16:09:21	HumbleGuy	Kyv, yes
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2021-06-23 16:10:20	Kyv	transfer your changes over to config.def.h, and `cp config.h{,-bak}`
2021-06-23 16:10:32	Kyv	then recompile again and check
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2021-06-23 16:11:18	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i don't have a config.h since i am on gentoo, i do the portage way
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2021-06-23 16:11:38	Kyv	ah, right
2021-06-23 16:11:54	Psi-Jack	Aka: "The wrong way" :)
2021-06-23 16:11:59	 *	Psi-Jack ducks.
2021-06-23 16:12:21	HumbleGuy	welp
2021-06-23 16:12:23	HumbleGuy	that sucks
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2021-06-23 16:13:18	Kyv	Its not wrong, I just dont use portage
2021-06-23 16:13:42	Psi-Jack	heh, I just don't like anything to do with Gentoo. And I used to be an ebuild maintainer.
2021-06-23 16:13:46	VMGuy234	I installed Conky Manager 2 and selected a widget, made sure to enable it, but nothing happened, Any idea why?
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2021-06-23 16:14:23	Psi-Jack	heck, I was once hired at a company because of my Gentoo experience, and the company stupidly used gentoo for public-facing servers, because... the guy's roommate suggested it.
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2021-06-23 16:14:28	Psi-Jack	🤦‍♂️
2021-06-23 16:14:45	HumbleGuy	Psi-Jack, what happend that change your view on gentoo so much>
2021-06-23 16:14:46	HumbleGuy	?
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2021-06-23 16:14:57	Dagmar	I blame you for mentioning ternary, jim.
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2021-06-23 16:15:07	Psi-Jack	HumbleGuy: JUst iot'
2021-06-23 16:15:08	Dagmar	I just hit a piece where I should be using ternary.
2021-06-23 16:15:10	Psi-Jack	Yikes. :)_
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2021-06-23 16:15:19	Psi-Jack	Just it's design concept in its entirety.
2021-06-23 16:15:21	VMGuy234	For info _
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2021-06-23 16:15:40	VMGuy234	2 monitors, Cinnamon on ubuntu 21.04
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2021-06-23 16:15:57	Psi-Jack	I stopped wanting to maintain my distribution, and just freaking use it.
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2021-06-23 16:16:56	HumbleGuy	Psi-Jack, well, portage does that for you, its not like linux from scratch where you have to manually update every package, or write a package manager for your distro
2021-06-23 16:17:05	HumbleGuy	(fun fact i was about to do it)
2021-06-23 16:17:07	Psi-Jack	Not really.
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2021-06-23 16:17:21	jim	Dagmar, I -did- mention ternary :)
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2021-06-23 16:17:23	Elagost	Gentoo seems to work best for a the chrome OS model - one big machine compiles everything hyper-optimized for a specific platform. Then smaller "client" boxes use it.
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2021-06-23 16:17:49	Psi-Jack	Elagost: heh, exactly.
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2021-06-23 16:18:09	Psi-Jack	Even SystemRescueCD used to use Gentoo, but they themselves switched their model as well.
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2021-06-23 16:18:29	matsaman	well, they switched source distro
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2021-06-23 16:19:07	matsaman	using arch the way most people use gentoo as a metadistro seems a step backwards, but ultimately you can of course do it with any distro
2021-06-23 16:19:11	Psi-Jack	They switched to using an Arch base, which has everything they needed packaged as binaries so the build process is much more streamlined.
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2021-06-23 16:19:29	matsaman	streamlined? Or already done? =P
2021-06-23 16:19:45	Elagost	gentoo is cool but people who run it on a single box, especially a laptop, seem a special kind of crazy to me.
2021-06-23 16:19:47	Psi-Jack	Streamlined. because there is an archbuild to make the SRCD iso.
2021-06-23 16:19:59	matsaman	Elagost: as opposed to ... two boxes? =P
2021-06-23 16:20:14	HumbleGuy	what do you mean by single box
2021-06-23 16:20:18	HumbleGuy	without distcc?
2021-06-23 16:20:25	matsaman	Psi-Jack: they didn't have that with Gentoo? I have my doubts
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2021-06-23 16:20:42	Psi-Jack	I mean, heck, I know someone that uses Gentoo still to this day, and partly because they like and use exclusively their fvwm. No, not fvwm2, fvwm the original.
2021-06-23 16:20:58	Elagost	HumbleGuy: I mean compiling everything from source for use on only one machine. If you're using a build box and shipping resultant binaries out to several identical other boxes, that seems sane to me.
2021-06-23 16:21:28	matsaman	Elagost: it makes for an incredibly consistently built entire OS
2021-06-23 16:21:30	byte4byte	jim can arm thumb compiled code load a shared object not compiled thumb?
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2021-06-23 16:21:36	matsaman	not to mention all the choices you get to make
2021-06-23 16:21:43	Dagmar	jim: Just for that... https://termbin.com/0u5y
2021-06-23 16:21:56	matsaman	and actually not to mention the very slight performance benefits possible
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2021-06-23 16:22:19	Dagmar	Yes, I am the kind of guy who will write a function named oxfordJoin()
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2021-06-23 16:23:14	matsaman	derbyJoin
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2021-06-23 16:23:32	pyzozord	hey I got a zombie process that won't die. I tried to kill -s SIGKILL it but it just won't die
2021-06-23 16:23:45	Psi-Jack	pyzozord: What's its STATE? or S-state?
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2021-06-23 16:23:59	Dagmar	YOu can't kill zombies, silly.
2021-06-23 16:24:05	Dagmar	That's why they're called zombies.
2021-06-23 16:24:15	Psi-Jack	Oh, zombie, missed that one word.
2021-06-23 16:24:23	pyzozord	Psi-Jack: Z
2021-06-23 16:24:28	Psi-Jack	Yeah, what Dagmar said.
2021-06-23 16:24:43	Psi-Jack	Kill the parent, if you can, if not, guess what. You can't kill it. Reboot.
2021-06-23 16:24:46	pyzozord	ok, so how do I get rid of it? (it does make sense that zombie doesnt die though)
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2021-06-23 16:24:56	Dagmar	It's probably wedged in kernelspace somewhere.  everyone's init automatically reaps unattended orphans nowadays
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2021-06-23 16:25:25	pyzozord	it's a chrome process
2021-06-23 16:25:40	Psi-Jack	So close down chrome, and see if it dies with it.
2021-06-23 16:25:42	pyzozord	it doesnt go away even when i killall chrome
2021-06-23 16:25:47	Dagmar	So it could be blocked on a million different things then... Nameservice lookups, video codec calls, etc etc
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2021-06-23 16:26:52	pyzozord	so no remedy for my zombie problem?
2021-06-23 16:26:53	<--	arakimo (~arakimo@user/arakimo) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 16:26:56	Psi-Jack	Reboot.
2021-06-23 16:27:14	Shaun	zombies don't have happy endings.  hence the name
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2021-06-23 16:28:29	lacroix	it will go away as soon the parent reads the status of it using wait() or something similar.
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2021-06-23 16:28:56	lacroix	it is a bug in the parent process, so you can kill the parent such that init will take over. usually it does the right thing.
2021-06-23 16:29:25	Psi-Jack	Question is, when you did a killall on chrome, did you -9 it or not?
2021-06-23 16:29:41	pyzozord	Psi-Jack: I did
2021-06-23 16:29:45	Psi-Jack	Tsk tsk tsk
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2021-06-23 16:29:52	Psi-Jack	So you forcibly made sure it couldn't reap it properly.
2021-06-23 16:30:18	pyzozord	so that means killing the parent won't help?
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2021-06-23 16:30:29	Psi-Jack	Well, no, because as you said, you already killed it.
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2021-06-23 16:30:53	pyzozord	ok, i was thinking maybe something else is it's parent for some reason
2021-06-23 16:31:02	pyzozord	but I don't know how to check what is the parent of the process
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2021-06-23 16:31:11	Psi-Jack	pstree is one way.
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2021-06-23 16:31:48	XV8	I'm trying to wrap my head around how Set UID and Set GID bits work with chmod. What I'm getting is it is running the process as another user or group instead of using something like sudo to run a command as a user?
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2021-06-23 16:32:14	Dagmar	XV8: Basically, on executeables, that's what it does
2021-06-23 16:32:25	pinPoint	DLange: I do have linux... this is an irssi application running behind a screen session.
2021-06-23 16:32:33	Psi-Jack	You can also check /proc/<pid>/status
2021-06-23 16:32:43	rannnn8888	help i run script python multi therfs a while and after like 1 hour its start run very slow , but if i stop the script and kill -9 f the script i same run very slow , only if i restart the server its work how i can cheack what its use ?
2021-06-23 16:32:44	Psi-Jack	Looking at the PPid there
2021-06-23 16:32:59	rannnn8888	the server when the script run slow run good no problems
2021-06-23 16:32:59	pinPoint	DLange: Don't let my cloak fool you. :)
2021-06-23 16:33:23	Psi-Jack	heh, irssi, screen. cringy these days man. :)
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2021-06-23 16:33:39	pinPoint	Psi-Jack: It works well actually.
2021-06-23 16:33:39	johnnyapol	XV8:those bits essentially let the process run the setuid() or setgid() system calls and change their usergroup. yes
2021-06-23 16:33:47	pyzozord	gnome-shell is the ppid of my zombie chrome
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2021-06-23 16:34:05	DLange	pinPoint: nice, welcome back to #linux then!
2021-06-23 16:34:05	Psi-Jack	pinPoint: It's always worked well, but definitely not the most ideal with proper bouncers like znc that exist. :)
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2021-06-23 16:34:08	johnnyapol	so in the case of sudo, it uses setuid to change itself to root and then run execv() to start the program
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2021-06-23 16:34:34	pinPoint	yeah, i'll do a znc later.
2021-06-23 16:34:37	Psi-Jack	Hehehe
2021-06-23 16:34:45	pyzozord	aha! killall gnomeshell got rid of the zombie chrome!
2021-06-23 16:35:00	Psi-Jack	And of course crashed your gnome desktop. :)
2021-06-23 16:35:03	DLange	always good to kill a gnome
2021-06-23 16:35:10	Psi-Jack	But, in theory, it respawned automatically yes?
2021-06-23 16:35:16	droptone	midgets
2021-06-23 16:35:21	pyzozord	but it's surprising that you need to kill a gnome to kill a zombie...
2021-06-23 16:35:29	<--	yarra (~yarra@176.88.88.246) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-23 16:35:33	lacroix	pinPoint..don't let them bully you :)
2021-06-23 16:35:39	<--	jean (~jean@user/jean) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 16:35:39	pinPoint	:)
2021-06-23 16:35:48	<--	qlixed (~qlixed@181.44.129.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 16:36:22	XV8	Dagmar johnnyapol Ah, I see what you mean. I see it also has the setuid bit set for sudo on my distro.
2021-06-23 16:36:34	DLange	lacroix: well, he still wears his "bully me" cloak, so .. :D
2021-06-23 16:36:52	lacroix	*laughs*
2021-06-23 16:37:09	pinPoint	hehehe
2021-06-23 16:37:15	pyzozord	thanks for help
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2021-06-23 16:38:45	jim	killall zombie lawn gnomes!
2021-06-23 16:39:15	Psi-Jack	Ahh he left.
2021-06-23 16:39:22	Psi-Jack	I was going to detail WHY he had to do that .:)
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2021-06-23 16:42:51	themachine	is there even a reason to clear a zombie process?
2021-06-23 16:43:04	Psi-Jack	Not so much anymore.
2021-06-23 16:43:14	Dagmar	Well, if you've got thousands of them they might be taking up a bit of space
2021-06-23 16:43:15	Psi-Jack	But, depends, How much resources are locked to it?
2021-06-23 16:43:43	Psi-Jack	A chrome subprocess, could be painful depending. :)
2021-06-23 16:44:02	johnnyapol	the resources of zombie process is constant regardless of what it originally was
2021-06-23 16:44:13	johnnyapol	just the pid and exit status and some other information are retained
2021-06-23 16:44:13	camel_case	exactly
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2021-06-23 16:44:43	themachine	so really, unless there are a mountain of them it's a non-issue
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2021-06-23 16:45:18	camel_case	kernel frees the pages code pages as soon as the proc dies, but saves exist status and some structs until parent checks in
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2021-06-23 16:46:39	HumbleGuy	how to install fonts on linux?
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2021-06-23 16:47:07	curdlesnoot	drop them into ~/.local/share/fonts
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2021-06-23 16:47:31	autopsy_	Milk and cheese.
2021-06-23 16:47:32	themachine	or install them from the package manager
2021-06-23 16:47:32	curdlesnoot	or install them from a package, if those of interest are available that way.
2021-06-23 16:47:35	themachine	if there are there
2021-06-23 16:47:47	<--	deb (~deb@user/deb) has left #linux
2021-06-23 16:47:50	themachine	s/there/they
2021-06-23 16:47:52	rud0lf	don't you need to run some kind of font cache update command?
2021-06-23 16:47:55	autopsy_	No dont to do any of that crap.
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2021-06-23 16:48:10	matsaman	rud0lf: fc-cache?
2021-06-23 16:48:13	curdlesnoot	no.
2021-06-23 16:48:13	rud0lf	yes
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2021-06-23 16:48:25	DLange	rud0lf: yes, fc-cache -sfv or the like
2021-06-23 16:48:30	jim	HumbleGuy, if your dist has a packaging system, maybe there are packages with fonts
2021-06-23 16:48:30	autopsy_	Just put your font files in /usr/share/fonts and ln -s /usr/share/fonts ~/.local/share/fonts
2021-06-23 16:48:35	scezar	i dont think that's needed
2021-06-23 16:48:45	matsaman	DLange: VERBOSITY?!
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2021-06-23 16:49:12	themachine	autopsy_: why would you symlink /usr/share/fonts to your $HOME fonts dir
2021-06-23 16:49:14	matsaman	autopsy_: that's a weird destruction of the system-vs-local separation, IMO
2021-06-23 16:49:18	Psi-Jack	autopsy_: But why?
2021-06-23 16:49:18	scezar	does fc-cache reload the fonts on running programs?
2021-06-23 16:49:20	autopsy_	Dude you guys are like a flock of damn birds lost in finding the other mate all of you guys.
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2021-06-23 16:49:28	Psi-Jack	scezar: No
2021-06-23 16:49:29	matsaman	scezar: I want to say no, but I don't remember
2021-06-23 16:49:37	HumbleGuy	what?
2021-06-23 16:49:38	--	Mode #linux [+o DLange] by ChanServ
2021-06-23 16:49:39	jim	matsaman, [[plsuse 'in my opinion' IMO
2021-06-23 16:49:39	Psi-Jack	scezar: You will need to restart applications you need new fonts in.
2021-06-23 16:49:47	<--	glouniche (~glouniche@193.9.112.124) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 16:49:48	jim	forgot to close it
2021-06-23 16:49:52	jim	matsaman, please use 'in my opinion', not 'IMO'
2021-06-23 16:49:54	scezar	oh then yeah dont use it
2021-06-23 16:49:56	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@2600:8800:920c:8a00::a7cf] by DLange
2021-06-23 16:50:01	<--	DLange has kicked autopsy_ (bye)
2021-06-23 16:50:02	Psi-Jack	jim: What? Why?
2021-06-23 16:50:08	themachine	lol
2021-06-23 16:50:14	scezar	just restart the app where you want to use it
2021-06-23 16:50:16	--	Mode #linux [-o DLange] by DLange
2021-06-23 16:50:20	Psi-Jack	IMO isn't SMS speak or shtspk.
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2021-06-23 16:50:29	Psi-Jack	IMHO, is the correct form though. :)
2021-06-23 16:50:30	<--	siika_ (~siika@139.226.50.205) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 16:51:06	HumbleGuy	IMHO sounds like lmao to me
2021-06-23 16:51:09	themachine	so now that you're real confused HumbleGuy, any more questions?
2021-06-23 16:51:15	themachine	:)
2021-06-23 16:51:22	HumbleGuy	themachine, no more :))
2021-06-23 16:51:23	Kyv	presuming your own humility, how ostentatious
2021-06-23 16:51:28	jim	it's another acronym they have to learn
2021-06-23 16:51:39	Psi-Jack	jim: And yet, IMHO has been around since before cellphones.
2021-06-23 16:51:49	droptone	mcaafee offed himself in a barcelona jail
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2021-06-23 16:51:52	droptone	quite a run he had
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2021-06-23 16:52:08	Inline	in your honest opinion you are stuck
2021-06-23 16:52:13	Inline	lol
2021-06-23 16:52:30	Dagmar	Not to speak ill of the dead, but I'm relieved.
2021-06-23 16:52:37	Dagmar	THey're saying it was a "virus"
2021-06-23 16:52:41	Kyv	I wonder if there is any place online which posits an alternative theory to his death.
2021-06-23 16:52:44	HumbleGuy	i dont have fonts dir in .local
2021-06-23 16:52:48	Daniel-deb	hello
2021-06-23 16:52:52	hodapp	they're just blaming the gubmint
2021-06-23 16:52:53	Psi-Jack	HumbleGuy: Make it.
2021-06-23 16:52:56	jim	hi
2021-06-23 16:52:58	curdlesnoot	HumbleGuy: fortunately, there is a command named mkdir that can help with that.
2021-06-23 16:52:59	Psi-Jack	mkdir -p ~/.local/share/fonts
2021-06-23 16:53:06	Dagmar	Would he have been crazy enough to think the weird drugs he was making might have been a vaccine for COVID-19?  Yes.\
2021-06-23 16:53:13	matsaman	Barcelona?
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2021-06-23 16:53:58	matsaman	I guess I wouldn't want to spend 30 years in prison in the USA, either
2021-06-23 16:54:03	HumbleGuy	curdlesnoot, i know :)) i just dont know what i do is good or if i break something
2021-06-23 16:54:04	matsaman	but he was a total nutter anyway
2021-06-23 16:54:06	-->	amahl (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 16:54:44	Dagmar	I am relieved I no longer have to worry about him showing up to PhreakNic as a surprise guest and starting a drama cyclone it would take years to clean up
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2021-06-23 16:54:55	jim	you wouldn't want to be in prison anywhere... and, some places are worse than others
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2021-06-23 16:55:55	johnnyapol	jims worst nightmare is ending up in prison with people who only SMS speak
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2021-06-23 16:56:16	themachine	ha
2021-06-23 16:56:26	lacroix	johnnyapol: excellent one *laughs*
2021-06-23 16:56:28	themachine	so is lol not allowed then?
2021-06-23 16:56:30	Kyv	For some people, prison or else some kind of rehabilitation program, they are like summer camp to them.
2021-06-23 16:56:34	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 16:56:35	matsaman	he wouldn't be able to scare people into buying what he had to protect themselves in prison
2021-06-23 16:56:57	jim	johnnyapol's worst nightmare is having a nightmare worse than the last one
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2021-06-23 16:57:21	curdlesnoot	themachine: Lamenting Odd Laws is not allowed, no. sorry.
2021-06-23 16:57:51	themachine	My apologies, I suppose that would be rather off topic.
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2021-06-23 16:59:01	Kyv	Also, Scandinavia supposedly has some cushy prisons.
2021-06-23 16:59:01	jim	lol is begrudgingly ok, since it's probably the most common one
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2021-06-23 16:59:12	gunix	what socks proxy server software do you recommend?
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2021-06-23 16:59:25	Psi-Jack	gunix: I recommend none.
2021-06-23 16:59:28	Kyv	Depending on one's quality of life outside, one might want to go.
2021-06-23 16:59:46	Andrea	Someone could help with problem related with Intel audio?
2021-06-23 17:00:02	<--	tesseract (~tesseract@user/tesseract) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 17:00:06	Daniel-deb	Debian btw
2021-06-23 17:00:09	Psi-Jack	Andrea: There's LOTS of issues revolving around Intel Audio. You will need to be much more specific.
2021-06-23 17:01:22	jim	Daniel-deb, btw is probably not so common, so please expand that one
2021-06-23 17:01:49	<--	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-23 17:02:07	Daniel-deb	jim i'm completely new to irc channels
2021-06-23 17:02:13	Kyv	The meta-discussion about what constitutes an SMS-ism will never get old.
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2021-06-23 17:02:31	jim	Daniel-deb, oh, welcome :)
2021-06-23 17:02:40	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 17:02:49	jim	Daniel-deb, everything working ok?
2021-06-23 17:02:57	phogg	Kyv: s/get old/end/ ftfy
2021-06-23 17:03:18	lacroix	Kyv.. personally it doesn't bother me :) but.. you need to go with the flow ;)
2021-06-23 17:03:44	Andrea	Psi-Jack: Yes, I ask before for avoiding writing for nothing. At least someone that read. I have tried a lot of solution. This is a link for all detail of the issue https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/655480/linux-mint-audio-only-hdmi-audio-is-displayed
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2021-06-23 17:03:53	Daniel-deb	well for now yes, anithing seems to be working fine, I use GNU/Linux distros from the last october, now i'm on Debian
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2021-06-23 17:03:59	hodapp	Kyv: I'd be fine if they'd simply put it as "The rule is the rule, it requires no justification, end of story." instead of pretending like it has valid, consistent reasoning behind it.
2021-06-23 17:04:07	hodapp	the former is much more honest.
2021-06-23 17:04:07	jim	just make sure the flow doesn't take you to a waterfall :)
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2021-06-23 17:05:02	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Specifics == What problem are you having. What system do you have it in? Make, Model, what's the ID from lsusb or lspci regarding the device, etc.
2021-06-23 17:05:05	jim	Daniel-deb, so would you consider yourself a new linux user (and a new debian user)?
2021-06-23 17:05:06	Daniel-deb	oh right, this morning I installed Gentoo
2021-06-23 17:05:11	Psi-Jack	Without any of that, nobody can help even a smidgeon.
2021-06-23 17:05:35	Dagmar	Well, at least now we know when the problems began
2021-06-23 17:05:42	Daniel-deb	jim yes i consider myself as a new Linux user but i learned a lot
2021-06-23 17:05:45	Kyv	lacroix: I am just making an observation, as far as I'm concerned, people can say whatever.
2021-06-23 17:06:21	lacroix	hodapp.. perhaps #linux's new generation would be fine with it.. or learn from the elders and implement it :) *wink*
2021-06-23 17:06:21	<--	rememberYou (~someone@user/rememberyou) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 17:06:21	Kyv	It's your jobs to do the moderating. :)
2021-06-23 17:06:42	lacroix	me? nooo.. It's jim's :)
2021-06-23 17:06:57	 *	rascul moderates lacroix
2021-06-23 17:06:58	Psi-Jack	Andrea: And... Seems this can also be related to a BIOS update needed.
2021-06-23 17:07:02	DLange	Kyv: job, singular. You can have it, if you want it :)
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2021-06-23 17:07:27	jim	Daniel-deb, for a new -debian- user... one thing that people get stuck on, is having their debian fail because of installing stuff for versions of debian they're not running
2021-06-23 17:07:33	jim	so
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2021-06-23 17:07:54	jim	Daniel-deb, I would hold off on changing your sources.list
2021-06-23 17:07:55	Psi-Jack	Oh, he left.
2021-06-23 17:07:57	Andrea	Psi-Jack: My system: https://termbin.com/kr2e  and lspci output is 00:0e.0 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation Celeron/Pentium Silver Processor High Definition Audio (rev 06)
2021-06-23 17:08:04	--	Mekaneck is now known as Droid
2021-06-23 17:08:14	Psi-Jack	Ahh there you are, did you see my note about BIOS?
2021-06-23 17:08:33	--	Droid is now known as Mekaneck
2021-06-23 17:09:26	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Yep. GemniLake. So, brand spanking new stuff, which is where most current Intel HDA issues tend to exist, because these odd problems haven't come to surface yet, or more so, fixed, yet.
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2021-06-23 17:10:09	Daniel-deb	jim don't worry, my sources.list are perfectly fine https://paste.debian.net/1202189/ :)
2021-06-23 17:10:35	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Termbin of `dmesg | grep snd_hda` might provide some further useful details.
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2021-06-23 17:11:26	Daniel-deb	obviously i'm not counting the ones in sources.list.d
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2021-06-23 17:13:03	jim	is bullseye stable now?
2021-06-23 17:13:04	<--	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 17:13:11	Psi-Jack	Not yet.
2021-06-23 17:13:12	Andrea	Psi-Jack: https://termbin.com/umpy
2021-06-23 17:13:14	jim	I've heard it's getting close
2021-06-23 17:13:30	<--	zjmc_ (zjmc@user/zjmc) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 17:13:35	Daniel-deb	nope but it will became stable in july
2021-06-23 17:13:52	 *	treefrob finds that stable/testing nonsense to be nonsense
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2021-06-23 17:14:11	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Is that WITH the model=generic option used?
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2021-06-23 17:14:39	jim	most nonsense is usually nonsense
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2021-06-23 17:14:54	Psi-Jack	fibbleflapper jabber wocky?
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2021-06-23 17:15:08	treefrob	I'm sure it's a nice solution to *some* problem(s), but it seems to create havoc
2021-06-23 17:15:12	Andrea	Psi-Jack: Yes
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2021-06-23 17:15:33	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Try without that, the dmesg stuff, and system details. That'll skew the issue.
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2021-06-23 17:16:46	Daniel-deb	which distro do you use jim?
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2021-06-23 17:17:19	Andrea	Psi-Jack: I'm sure that without the line `options snd-hda-intel model=generic` i can't view the card in system settings. Make sense to try however
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2021-06-23 17:17:49	Psi-Jack	dmesg shows useful info. :)
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2021-06-23 17:20:56	jdmark	ermm
2021-06-23 17:20:56	jdmark	https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/john-mcafee-found-dead-after-spanish-court-oks-extradition-for-tax-crimes-.html
2021-06-23 17:20:58	<--	PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-23 17:21:07	jdmark	mcafee makes products for linux
2021-06-23 17:21:10	jdmark	so sad
2021-06-23 17:21:15	Psi-Jack	Oh, well, my time is almost up.
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2021-06-23 17:21:21	Psi-Jack	jdmark: Yeah so?
2021-06-23 17:21:27	Psi-Jack	His products suck.
2021-06-23 17:21:30	jdmark	i wanted to remain on topic
2021-06-23 17:21:43	jdmark	but i also wanted to link to the major news of mcafee passing away
2021-06-23 17:21:45	jdmark	so sad..
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2021-06-23 17:22:14	Psi-Jack	To me, he's not a loss to this world. Good riddence, and I don't say that about many people.
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2021-06-23 17:23:00	dostoyevsky2	> he was colorful and also achieved success and arguably was one of the seminal figures in the nascent AV industry.
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2021-06-23 17:23:15	dostoyevsky2	Sentence makes me wonder what AV stands for...
2021-06-23 17:23:21	xinming	When I use par2 to create the recovery archive, I see files which is like *.tar.vol031+32.par2  and each vol is large than the previous vol, does that mean I just need the largest one for recovery and just ignore the smaller ones?
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2021-06-23 17:23:47	themachine	xinming: you need as many as required based on the degredation of the archive(s) you are extracting
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2021-06-23 17:24:03	themachine	if the archives aren't damaged then you don't need any par2 files to extract
2021-06-23 17:24:08	xinming	https://github.com/Parchive/par2cmdline  <--- here, the example states that `Recovery file with 32 recovery blocks`  `Recovery file with 37 recovery blocks`
2021-06-23 17:24:16	Psi-Jack	xinming: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/par2.1.html
2021-06-23 17:24:21	Psi-Jack	There you go. :)
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2021-06-23 17:25:09	xinming	I still don't get it, I think we read the same content.
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2021-06-23 17:25:15	tusko	Psi-Jack, any loss of human life is tragic, even yours
2021-06-23 17:25:26	themachine	xinming: par files are ONLY needed, if the archive is damaged
2021-06-23 17:25:29	arkanoid	hello! What's a modern way to setup a communication script for modem via AT command?
2021-06-23 17:25:43	Andrea	Psi-Jack: After reboot the new output of the command is https://termbin.com/6uhn6
2021-06-23 17:25:47	Inline	shit man
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2021-06-23 17:25:54	dostoyevsky2	arkanoid: curl?
2021-06-23 17:25:56	themachine	xinming: the degree of damage would determine how many par2 files would be required to recover the damage
2021-06-23 17:25:59	Inline	this laptops space gets fuller and fuller on it's own
2021-06-23 17:25:59	xinming	in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive    If an index file of a download states that 4 blocks are missing, the easiest way to repair the files would be by downloading filename.vol003+04.PAR2. However, due to the redundancy, filename.vol007+06.PAR2 is also acceptable.
2021-06-23 17:26:01	Psi-Jack	Andrea: Check for a BIOS update for your laptop.
2021-06-23 17:26:13	themachine	xinming: yes
2021-06-23 17:26:21	Psi-Jack	Andrea: My time is run out for the time being, but everything I see regarding this is BIOS update.
2021-06-23 17:26:26	themachine	xinming: but if MORE than 4 blocks are missing then you would need MORE par2 files
2021-06-23 17:26:27	arkanoid	dostoyevsky2: from your answer I guess you don't know what I am talking about
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2021-06-23 17:26:43	Inline	i just updated/upgraded, and i even removed all the junk old kernels and /lib/modules and initrds and configs and vmlinuzes from /boot
2021-06-23 17:26:44	drip	arkanoid: i would think to configure it in whatever application is using the modem (like hylafax), but otherwise, 'expect'
2021-06-23 17:26:45	themachine	xinming: so there is no clear cut answer to your question as it depends on the damage done to the archives in question
2021-06-23 17:26:52	Inline	got me only 4.6Gb free
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2021-06-23 17:26:55	xinming	themachine: then, does that mean, I just need to download the one with largest numer?
2021-06-23 17:27:05	Inline	128Gb on / and all is full ?
2021-06-23 17:27:15	themachine	xinming: No, it means you need to download whatever amount is needed to recover from the damage
2021-06-23 17:27:20	Inline	even my /home is on a separate partition how comes ?
2021-06-23 17:27:29	Inline	sheeeeet
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2021-06-23 17:27:37	themachine	xinming: Is the archive you're trying to extract even damaged at all?
2021-06-23 17:27:45	arkanoid	drip: thanks for the hint. What do you mean with "expect"?
2021-06-23 17:27:47	dostoyevsky2	I didn't actually realize that there also is a McAfee for linux...
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2021-06-23 17:27:57	arkanoid	do you mean "man expect"?
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2021-06-23 17:28:03	xinming	themachine: but in wikipedia, it reports, due to redundance, filname.vol007+06.PAR2 is also acceptable.
2021-06-23 17:28:09	matsaman	yeah, all sorts of proprietary scareware for linux
2021-06-23 17:28:09	drip	thats the program I wuld use to setup an init script for a modem
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2021-06-23 17:28:15	themachine	xinming: yes
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2021-06-23 17:28:18	themachine	that is correct
2021-06-23 17:28:19	xinming	themachine: No damage, I'm just trying to keep my cd data backup safe.
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2021-06-23 17:28:26	Inline	think i'm gonna delete all this mint stuff
2021-06-23 17:28:36	themachine	xinming: well to be as safe as possible, you should download ALL the par2 files
2021-06-23 17:28:54	xinming	themachine: then this way, I just need to keep the largest recovery
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2021-06-23 17:28:56	themachine	The more redundancy you have, the safer you are
2021-06-23 17:29:09	xinming	here is where I get confused, because +7 can do that for +4
2021-06-23 17:29:19	HumbleGuy	why do i get this warning when i open file manager from terminal
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2021-06-23 17:29:32	HumbleGuy	http://dpaste.com/8EUHSPX5C
2021-06-23 17:29:32	HumbleGuy	]
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2021-06-23 17:29:59	xinming	I mean the recovery file, it seems the single large one is enough, because it contains all recovery.
2021-06-23 17:30:13	xinming	the smaller ones seems to be like handy helpers
2021-06-23 17:30:19	Andrea	Psi-Jack: Thanks for hep. I'll try to update the bios.
2021-06-23 17:30:19	themachine	xinming: The large one contains however many blocks it contains
2021-06-23 17:30:26	matsaman	HumbleGuy: because the pcmanfm people don't expect it to be executed from terminals much
2021-06-23 17:30:28	themachine	so you could recovery from that many blocks of damange xinming
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2021-06-23 17:30:32	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it's harmless
2021-06-23 17:30:47	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it's a message for the developers, really
2021-06-23 17:30:48	themachine	but if the archive was damaged more than the quantity of blocks in the largest par2 file, you would need ADDITIONAL par2 files
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2021-06-23 17:31:37	xinming	themachine: ah, got it, So, the most blocks we can repair is, all par2 files combined, right?
2021-06-23 17:31:41	HumbleGuy	matsaman, can i disable it? or i have to modify source code
2021-06-23 17:31:45	themachine	xinming: correct
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2021-06-23 17:32:00	themachine	so to be as safe as you possibly can, you'd want ALL the par2 files
2021-06-23 17:32:07	xinming	themachine: thanks, that makes me clear
2021-06-23 17:32:15	themachine	np
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2021-06-23 17:32:46	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it's just bothering you? Make a wrapper or alias for 'pcmanfm' that hides it
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2021-06-23 17:34:08	jelly	HumbleGuy, you get those warnings because authors of GTK and GTK apps don't care about your stderr
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2021-06-23 17:34:36	matsaman	well, the authors of that one don't
2021-06-23 17:34:45	matsaman	and they also don't care so far about what the message is whining about
2021-06-23 17:34:49	jelly	the warnings come from the library
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2021-06-23 17:36:42	matsaman	HumbleGuy: "pcmanfm 2>&1 | grep -iv 'gtk-warning'" or the like
2021-06-23 17:36:46	xinming	themachine: what's the default -s for par2?
2021-06-23 17:36:50	HumbleGuy	matsaman, i am a perfectionst
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2021-06-23 17:37:15	HumbleGuy	matsaman, i put this in alias?
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2021-06-23 17:38:00	themachine	xinming: no idea, can't say I've ever created my own par files before
2021-06-23 17:38:23	matsaman	HumbleGuy: you could; I'd try it on its own first
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2021-06-23 17:38:45	xinming	themachine: ok, nevermind about the -s, thanks for your explanation. will use the default.
2021-06-23 17:38:48	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it's possible using xdg-open instead of pcmanfm directly could also be useful
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2021-06-23 17:39:42	xinming	themachine: hmm, so, when we have 3 errors, can we download the 2 files so they sumed up to 3 errors?
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2021-06-23 17:40:24	xinming	something like, vol001+1.par2  vol002+2.par2,  and we don't need the vol003+4.par2 etc.
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2021-06-23 17:41:26	themachine	xinming: correct
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2021-06-23 17:41:33	xinming	ok, thx
2021-06-23 17:41:37	xinming	thanks*
2021-06-23 17:41:42	themachine	http://www.quickpar.org.uk/DownloadingGuide.htm
2021-06-23 17:41:45	themachine	that page might be helpful to you
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2021-06-23 17:50:03	lacroix	ferry: about time.
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2021-06-23 17:51:51	lacroix	disregard that, I thought you were someone else :)
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2021-06-23 17:58:07	rascul	i also thought ferry was someone else
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2021-06-23 17:58:15	SickBoy	o/
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2021-06-23 17:59:36	ice9	how can I pair apple airpods pro with Linux?
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2021-06-23 18:00:15	Psi-Jack	ice9: Just like you'd pair any Bluetooth. Read the bluetooth pairing instructions.
2021-06-23 18:00:29	ice9	Psi-Jack, ah i already tried that and it doesn't work at all
2021-06-23 18:00:33	Psi-Jack	It does.
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2021-06-23 18:01:06	Psi-Jack	"it doesn't work" itself is a blanket and useless statement as it is. So if you want help, you'll have to be more specific.
2021-06-23 18:01:40	rascul	my beer doesn't work
2021-06-23 18:01:41	<--	Andrea (~andrea@93.51.1.254) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 18:01:45	ice9	Psi-Jack, i'm trying to pair it from gnome settings and it just spins for a while and nothing happens
2021-06-23 18:01:47	themachine	rascul: try another one
2021-06-23 18:01:55	rascul	oh, good idea themachine
2021-06-23 18:02:05	 *	rascul gets another beer and it works
2021-06-23 18:02:10	themachine	Nice
2021-06-23 18:02:21	SickBoy	i blame Gnome
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2021-06-23 18:02:45	rascul	ice9 you might try bluetoothctl from the terminal but i don't remember much about how to use it
2021-06-23 18:02:54	Psi-Jack	ice9: Did you put the earpods into pairing mode?
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2021-06-23 18:03:23	rascul	bluetoothctl isn't going to do anything different but you might get slightly more information than none
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2021-06-23 18:04:29	Psi-Jack	SickBoy: Blame useless things randomly. Yeah, useful.
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2021-06-23 18:04:42	rascul	i concur, gnome is useless
2021-06-23 18:04:55	Psi-Jack	I disagree, but then I use Gnome 40. :)
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2021-06-23 18:05:00	rascul	i use blackbox
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2021-06-23 18:05:15	byte4byte	I use Microsoft Windows 10 like a normal human being
2021-06-23 18:05:26	rascul	i am most certainly not a normal human being
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2021-06-23 18:05:58	dostoyevsky2	shouldn't gnome be renamed to littleperson so it's not seen as offensive?
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2021-06-23 18:06:16	rascul	are gnomes people, though?
2021-06-23 18:06:34	byte4byte	you racist bastard
2021-06-23 18:06:38	dostoyevsky2	I am not an expert on gnomology
2021-06-23 18:06:46	rascul	nor am i
2021-06-23 18:07:05	Psi-Jack	It's not even pronounced the same. :p
2021-06-23 18:07:17	Psi-Jack	Guh-nome != nome
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2021-06-23 18:08:03	Psi-Jack	ice9: So, once again. Did you actually put the AirPods Pro into pairing mode?
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2021-06-23 18:08:45	ice9	Psi-Jack, yeah, and this time it paired successfully after couple of trials but it's working only as speakers, mic doesn't work
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2021-06-23 18:09:11	Psi-Jack	ice9: There's a trick to that as well. Depends on your bluetooth adapter in part.
2021-06-23 18:09:18	byte4byte	ice9, a half assed experience is linux plain and simple
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2021-06-23 18:09:46	themachine	lol
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2021-06-23 18:10:00	themachine	Your first mistake was buying airpods though
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2021-06-23 18:10:30	rs	Earbuds on a wire, ftw!
2021-06-23 18:10:38	themachine	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2021-06-23 18:11:02	ice9	would the huawie one fully work with linux?
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2021-06-23 18:11:18	rs	Did you email huawie to ask?
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2021-06-23 18:16:08	Psi-Jack	themachine: I rather like my AirPods Pro, and Beats Studio3.
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2021-06-23 18:18:40	rannnn8888	someone know what the problem its run k and after +- hour start run vry slow the problem if i kill the procsess its same ,only if i restart my server its work again https://dpaste.org/s4nb
2021-06-23 18:19:03	-->	ice9 (~ice9@user/ice9) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 18:19:07	SmashingX	##linux is #linux now?
2021-06-23 18:19:12	SmashingX	or I can't join it
2021-06-23 18:19:14	Psi-Jack	SmashingX: No, #linux is #linux
2021-06-23 18:19:24	SmashingX	on freenode it was ##linux
2021-06-23 18:19:27	SmashingX	that's why I wask
2021-06-23 18:19:29	Psi-Jack	rannnn8888: Link fail. 404.
2021-06-23 18:19:37	Psi-Jack	SmashingX: Freenode no longer exists.
2021-06-23 18:19:41	SmashingX	it does
2021-06-23 18:19:42	<--	jjonah (~jjonah@p200300d5d71ebc00dea632fffeb3342f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 18:19:45	Psi-Jack	No, it does not.
2021-06-23 18:19:47	SmashingX	I just joined and found out
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2021-06-23 18:19:54	SmashingX	that it was moved to libera
2021-06-23 18:19:56	drip	its not freenode anymore
2021-06-23 18:19:56	Psi-Jack	It was freenode, and now it's not. It's basically ryzen now.
2021-06-23 18:20:11	SmashingX	is now paidnode?
2021-06-23 18:20:14	SmashingX	heh
2021-06-23 18:20:21	Umbire	Rizon.
2021-06-23 18:20:24	Umbire	But also moment.
2021-06-23 18:20:43	Psi-Jack	rizon, yes, sorry, Keep mixing that up with the AMD CPU. :)
2021-06-23 18:20:44	SmashingX	well whatever, it was ##linux when it was freenode
2021-06-23 18:20:46	Psi-Jack	Poor AMD. :)
2021-06-23 18:20:48	<--	jjonah (~jjonah@p200300d5d71ebc00dea632fffeb3342f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 18:20:52	Umbire	https://libera.chat/chanreg
2021-06-23 18:20:53	SmashingX	so my question is, ##linux is now #linux
2021-06-23 18:20:55	Umbire	And now it's not
2021-06-23 18:20:56	Psi-Jack	SmashingX: New changes. It's #linux here.
2021-06-23 18:20:57	Umbire	Because that.
2021-06-23 18:21:00	SmashingX	ok
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2021-06-23 18:21:17	rannnn8888	https://paste.ofcode.org/MwLWhVPWTVAyKyPkLhykZN
2021-06-23 18:21:54	<--	NthDegree (NthDegree@martynhare.uk) has quit (Quit: Server restarting... will reconnect shortly)
2021-06-23 18:21:58	rascul	## is the worst
2021-06-23 18:22:04	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 18:22:05	Psi-Jack	SmashingX: And also, /chanserv info ##linux
2021-06-23 18:22:14	Psi-Jack	rascul: Don't you like to double-pound?
2021-06-23 18:22:29	rannnn8888	Psi-Jack I can not understand why and why it only works with I turn off the server and turn it on again
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2021-06-23 18:22:38	Codaraxis	Is it correct to say that  ps  combines its selection criteria in a match-any way?
2021-06-23 18:22:51	Psi-Jack	rannnn8888: Okay. Still. your paste link is 404, NOT_FOUND.
2021-06-23 18:23:07	rascul	Psi-Jack no double pounding please
2021-06-23 18:23:24	rascul	that link not 404 for me
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2021-06-23 18:23:48	Psi-Jack	rascul: The dpaste one from rannnn8888 ?
2021-06-23 18:23:58	rascul	https://paste.ofcode.org/MwLWhVPWTVAyKyPkLhykZN
2021-06-23 18:24:00	<--	ixil (~ixil@82.197.178.137) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 18:24:12	rascul	i didn't realize there was a dpaste one earlier
2021-06-23 18:24:17	Psi-Jack	Ahh.
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2021-06-23 18:24:25	SmashingX	rascul: you were in that channel as well
2021-06-23 18:24:29	rascul	the dpaste one is 404 for me
2021-06-23 18:24:30	Psi-Jack	So, some python code?
2021-06-23 18:24:36	Psi-Jack	Sounds like a #python question
2021-06-23 18:24:44	rascul	looks like python in think
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2021-06-23 18:24:54	rascul	SmashingX i'm in every channel and no channel
2021-06-23 18:24:59	rannnn8888	Psi-Jack its not python problem
2021-06-23 18:25:01	-->	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 18:25:04	Psi-Jack	rannnn8888: Yes it is.
2021-06-23 18:25:12	rannnn8888	if i end the script and kill al python
2021-06-23 18:25:21	rannnn8888	and run him again and get same rsults ?
2021-06-23 18:25:38	Psi-Jack	I'm not going to decipher excessive abuse of newlines.
2021-06-23 18:25:38	rannnn8888	only if turn off the server and turn on its satart work again
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2021-06-23 18:26:57	Psi-Jack	rannnn8888: It's a Python issue. Period.
2021-06-23 18:27:38	<--	LucaTM (~LucaTM@user/lucatm) has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-06-23 18:27:39	rannnn8888	Psi-Jack if i have problem on setup python in linux server when i need ask this ? in pytho or linux ?
2021-06-23 18:27:58	Psi-Jack	More specifically a programmer level specific problem regarding what you've written in that specific language.
2021-06-23 18:28:30	-->	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 18:28:33	rannnn8888	Psi-Jack as lest start again , the problem i want cheack its not the script
2021-06-23 18:28:43	<--	vicfred (~vicfred@user/vicfred) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 18:28:50	Psi-Jack	No.
2021-06-23 18:29:01	rannnn8888	its problem buy python ! if script work and after work slow its not python script eror
2021-06-23 18:29:01	Psi-Jack	I will not "start again" with the exact same details. :p
2021-06-23 18:29:15	Psi-Jack	#python, end of discussion.
2021-06-23 18:29:40	<--	badsektor (~badsektor@user/badsektor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-23 18:30:45	rannnn8888	ok show i ask u again ! my python down when i run this script https://paste.ofcode.org/7S3cJEj9UNNcpTuzSphTPZ
2021-06-23 18:30:56	Psi-Jack	Moving on.
2021-06-23 18:30:57	rannnn8888	where i need ask this in python channle ?
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2021-06-23 18:33:57	Psi-Jack	And that's obviously not the whole code either. Not sure what it's supposed to be doing, but it kinda looks like some janky bass ackwards spider script or some kind.
2021-06-23 18:34:07	c705	rannnn8888: ask a more appropriate channel like ##programming or ##python
2021-06-23 18:34:16	Psi-Jack	c705: Is it ## here?
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2021-06-23 18:34:28	Psi-Jack	No, it is not.
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2021-06-23 18:35:11	twomoon	c705 what's your channel list? i need to add some good channels now that i'm in libera
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2021-06-23 18:35:24	c705	twomoon: /msg alis help
2021-06-23 18:35:48	c705	Psi-Jack: ##programming will forward to #programming. not sure about python
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2021-06-23 18:39:56	rannnn8888	c705 yep but i sure to start slove my problem i need see what is ! if program run good and after hour no its somethig in the server i need see
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2021-06-23 18:40:52	Gustavo6046	No lewd?
2021-06-23 18:40:55	Gustavo6046	No lewd.
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2021-06-23 18:41:59	rob`	wtb python lewds pst
2021-06-23 18:42:27	Psi-Jack	What?
2021-06-23 18:42:28	c705	yyes considerably
2021-06-23 18:42:45	Psi-Jack	rob`: Try that again in English.
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2021-06-23 18:57:39	akik	https://github.com/Microsoft/AttackSurfaceAnalyzer "Attack Surface Analyzer is a Microsoft developed open source security tool that analyzes the attack surface of a target system"
2021-06-23 18:58:03	akik	maybe they should try to fix the virus/malware problem of windows first
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2021-06-23 19:03:19	coruja	set *conn*
2021-06-23 19:03:36	coruja	oops, sorry ;)
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2021-06-23 19:26:40	velix	My god... Linux servers are a huge GPDR desaster. fail2ban for example has its own sqlite database, about anyone is aware of.
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2021-06-23 19:27:09	c705	fail2ban is a joke
2021-06-23 19:27:28	velix	c705: I can't laugh about it
2021-06-23 19:27:31	sumthing1980	hello I need recommendation for terminal based distro, besides debian
2021-06-23 19:27:38	velix	c705: it's doing good work here.
2021-06-23 19:27:54	velix	c705: be more verbose please. verbose level 3
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2021-06-23 19:28:56	velix	ping unix://c705
2021-06-23 19:29:32	OneLegend	sumthing1980: give us more details about your usecase
2021-06-23 19:29:33	akik	sumthing1980: systemctl set-default multi-user.target
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2021-06-23 19:29:50	sumthing1980	it is for VM
2021-06-23 19:29:59	sumthing1980	I just need php and apt
2021-06-23 19:30:06	sumthing1980	and basic things
2021-06-23 19:30:09	sumthing1980	no gui
2021-06-23 19:30:19	c705	i guess i don't have any comeback
2021-06-23 19:30:36	sumthing1980	debian has problem while installing I need something else
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2021-06-23 19:32:28	OneLegend	sumthing1980: what problem did you get?
2021-06-23 19:32:38	akik	sumthing1980: install any distro, then use the above command and reboot
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2021-06-23 19:33:07	sumthing1980	in the installation, where you select a  mirror for apt
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2021-06-23 19:33:20	pyeverything	hey do you know how I should fix this error in CentOS7? -bash: ./script/Download_result.sh: /bin/bash^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
2021-06-23 19:33:20	pyeverything	 
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2021-06-23 19:33:48	sumthing1980	it says mirror not working but the terminal says the mirror does not support the version brutes or something
2021-06-23 19:33:54	knocktwice	pyeverything: looks like there's a DOS line terminator in your script.
2021-06-23 19:33:56	sumthing1980	its a known problem they havent fixed it
2021-06-23 19:34:01	c705	i guess my issue with fail2ban is that it doesn't really address DOS properly. it might stop a weak attack (which can be done with iptables and ssh by itself without involving middleware) so it actually adds little security value
2021-06-23 19:34:08	sumthing1980	it is the netinstall iso
2021-06-23 19:34:22	c705	could also lead to a DOS if someone is launching an attack on your server from the same subnet that you connect with
2021-06-23 19:34:29	c705	velix:
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2021-06-23 19:34:37	knocktwice	pyeverything: i.e. the interpreter is '/bin/bash', not '/bin/bash^M'
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2021-06-23 19:34:45	structoha	i just achieved to connect to irc over tor (uhh took some time for a noob), do you recommend using the same certificates for connecting to the next server like OFTC or is that not a good practice?
2021-06-23 19:35:06	c705	different service -> different certs
2021-06-23 19:35:19	velix	c705: I think fail2ban isn't for DOS?
2021-06-23 19:35:26	structoha	c705: thx
2021-06-23 19:35:27	c705	velix: what is it for then?
2021-06-23 19:35:30	sumthing1980	so what terminal based linux do you recommend besides debian?
2021-06-23 19:35:36	sumthing1980	for VM
2021-06-23 19:35:42	c705	sumthing1980: ubutu
2021-06-23 19:35:53	pyeverything	knocktwice: so it is not my script (an open-source code in github but here it is ) https://pastebin.com/raw/Tm7cE9Fh
2021-06-23 19:35:54	velix	c705: DOS = Denial of Service ?
2021-06-23 19:35:56	sumthing1980	can you get ubuntu without the desktop?
2021-06-23 19:35:58	OneLegend	yes
2021-06-23 19:35:58	c705	velix: yes
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2021-06-23 19:36:47	velix	c705: according to wikipedia: "In computing, a denial-of-service attack (DoS attack) is a cyber-attack in which the perpetrator seeks to make a machine or network resource unavailable to its intended users by temporarily or indefinitely disrupting services of a host connected to the Internet."
2021-06-23 19:37:05	c705	yes i know what a DOS is thank you
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2021-06-23 19:37:23	velix	c705: but Fail2Ban is an intrusion prevention software framework that protects computer servers from brute-force attacks?!
2021-06-23 19:37:40	rascul	disk operating system
2021-06-23 19:37:42	c705	it's not an ips
2021-06-23 19:38:17	knocktwice	pyeverything: try removing the control-m's from the script.  use dos2unix, or 'tr -d \\r' (or something close to that)
2021-06-23 19:38:18	pyeverything	knocktwice: how do I fix it?
2021-06-23 19:38:34	rascul	fail2ban is pretty good at cutting down log size
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2021-06-23 19:39:00	c705	rascul: i guess my point is netfilter can do this natively without fail2ban
2021-06-23 19:39:10	pyeverything	$ sed -i -e 's/\r$//' script/Download_result.sh --> worked
2021-06-23 19:39:20	c705	fail2ban is just an extra daemon running as root that probably isn't adding all that much security value
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2021-06-23 19:39:37	rascul	ssh + keys > fail2ban
2021-06-23 19:39:41	c705	right
2021-06-23 19:40:11	c705	listen on something besides 22, that'll get rid of 99.99% of the botnets anyways
2021-06-23 19:40:17	curdlesnoot	yep.
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2021-06-23 19:40:25	curdlesnoot	that's the simplest way that is effective.
2021-06-23 19:40:37	c705	i don't think i've ever had anyopne besides myself even attempt to talk to my sshd
2021-06-23 19:40:53	rascul	it's the .01% that you really need to worry about and they can get around port changes and fail2ban
2021-06-23 19:40:53	-->	candy (~tvrtko@93-136-28-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:40:55	knocktwice	Yep.  I always move the sshd port.  Helps tremendously.
2021-06-23 19:41:09	c705	rascul: of course, that's my point
2021-06-23 19:41:13	velix	c705: your fail2ban is running as root? man, fix your OS :-D https://coderwall.com/p/haj28a/running-rootless-fail2ban-on-debian
2021-06-23 19:41:14	-->	alschaapman (~alschaapm@user/alschaapman) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 19:41:30	jjakob	the only thing I run fail2ban on is a mail server
2021-06-23 19:41:34	<--	rtypo (~alex@user/rtypo) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 19:41:35	c705	on what planet did I say i'm running fail2ban?
2021-06-23 19:41:39	jjakob	because spammers
2021-06-23 19:41:42	alschaapman	What's the status of kinetic scrolling in Qt applications? I was searching online around to try to get an answer about this and I was under the impression that this is implemented by Qt for quite some time
2021-06-23 19:41:46	-->	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:41:52	curdlesnoot	fail2ban just adds attack surface, though it has its uses. watching sshd logs is probably not the best example of one.
2021-06-23 19:41:56	alschaapman	Is this something that works normally with touchscreens but not trackpads?
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2021-06-23 19:42:52	curdlesnoot	jjakob: what sort of pattern did you end up using?
2021-06-23 19:42:55	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 19:43:03	jjakob	using the f2b postfix aggressive settings + incremental ban time increase + postscreen + DNSBL probably cut down my postfix logs 90%
2021-06-23 19:43:08	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 19:43:27	rascul	fastmail cut down my postfix logs 100%
2021-06-23 19:43:39	jjakob	changing ssh port to something in the 10k+ range is good enough
2021-06-23 19:43:51	OneLegend	any of you guys use Single Packet Authentication for SSH?
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2021-06-23 19:43:56	OneLegend	fwknop
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2021-06-23 19:45:11	jjakob	oh I made my own filter that combines dnsbl + aggressive
2021-06-23 19:45:18	velix	jjakob: looks nice https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9621
2021-06-23 19:45:21	jjakob	the ones that ship with f2b
2021-06-23 19:45:24	velix	oops, OneLegend ^
2021-06-23 19:45:40	rascul	port knocking? no
2021-06-23 19:45:51	OneLegend	rascul: it's not really "port knocking"
2021-06-23 19:45:56	-->	crankharder (~crankhard@pool-71-127-147-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:46:09	jjakob	more like speed dating
2021-06-23 19:46:39	pyeverything	I have a folder named "-Results" how can I convert the name to "Results" ? mv "-Results/" Results --> didn't work w error: mv: invalid option -- 'R'
2021-06-23 19:46:49	rascul	mv -- -Results Results
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2021-06-23 19:47:50	pyeverything	thanks a lot rascul
2021-06-23 19:47:51	<--	riff-IRC (~riff-IRC@user/riff-irc) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 19:48:24	<--	`deb (~relax@142.169.78.200) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-23 19:49:25	jjakob	curdlesnoot: this is the filter http://dpaste.com/D7BMPL6ZB
2021-06-23 19:49:48	curdlesnoot	jjakob: thanks. it's been quite a while since I ran an important MTA. was just curious.
2021-06-23 19:50:27	-->	riff-IRC (~riff-IRC@user/riff-irc) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 19:50:47	jjakob	unfortunately if you don't want to get tons of spam you have to use DNSBL, so you send all the IPs connecting to you to some external services
2021-06-23 19:50:50	autopsy	MTA (Mail Tranfer Agent)
2021-06-23 19:50:57	-->	Sn4il (~Sn4il@185.212.170.139) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:51:00	autopsy	Mail Traqnsfer Agent MTA
2021-06-23 19:51:11	jjakob	or you can spend time training your own spam filter...
2021-06-23 19:51:25	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-23 19:51:33	jjakob	or live with the spam if it's your own private server which I'd probably do
2021-06-23 19:51:34	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:51:46	kodah	there's also DKIM
2021-06-23 19:51:54	bparker	spamassassin works fine
2021-06-23 19:52:17	jjakob	spamassassin often uses DNSBL/URIBL too
2021-06-23 19:52:22	byte4byte	where jim at
2021-06-23 19:52:22	-->	straykitten (~straykitt@subs24-116-206-8-38.three.co.id) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:52:28	jjakob	or external services
2021-06-23 19:52:38	bparker	or MailScanner
2021-06-23 19:52:45	OneLegend	byte4byte: you can find him in #linux-ops
2021-06-23 19:52:58	autopsy	byte4byte, hes taking a nap its about afternoon where he is I['m pretty sure.
2021-06-23 19:53:10	jjakob	you can get by without external services but it's a lot more work
2021-06-23 19:53:11	autopsy	Oh yeah #linux-ops
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2021-06-23 19:55:09	<--	ValeraRozuvan (~pGUPmZopb@stuff.rozuvan.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-06-23 19:55:26	rascul	where is jim? saturn?
2021-06-23 19:55:38	c705	jim was in libera like an hour ago
2021-06-23 19:55:41	bparker	mars
2021-06-23 19:55:44	-->	structoha (~structoha@gateway/tor-sasl/structoha) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:55:46	c705	he said "hmm" and then left
2021-06-23 19:55:48	rascul	ahh, mars
2021-06-23 19:55:55	rascul	a bit closer, i think
2021-06-23 19:55:57	pyeverything	do you know how I can fix this so I can run Jupyter locally on my own machine? https://pastebin.com/raw/yTwM5PzM
2021-06-23 19:56:11	curdlesnoot	byte4byte: he's at some place where he can't teach you python
2021-06-23 19:56:25	-->	travaldo (~travaldo@159.203.88.148) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 19:56:30	bparker	ha
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2021-06-23 19:58:18	curdlesnoot	jjakob: yes, indeed (re DNSBL)
2021-06-23 19:58:21	rascul	python is the worst though
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2021-06-23 19:59:20	OneLegend	python is very powerful
2021-06-23 19:59:31	rascul	so are whales
2021-06-23 19:59:32	-->	debsan (~debsan@2800:810:471:2ee::1001) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 19:59:38	c705	rascul: i didn't know you were wone of those guys
2021-06-23 19:59:43	rascul	which guys?
2021-06-23 19:59:49	rascul	whoever they are, they're the worst
2021-06-23 19:59:49	c705	the "python is trash" guys
2021-06-23 19:59:56	rascul	no, i didn't say trash
2021-06-23 20:00:03	c705	oh rascul ffs
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2021-06-23 20:00:11	rascul	i said the worst, and i meant the worst at being a bird
2021-06-23 20:00:16	rascul	pythons eat birds
2021-06-23 20:00:19	rascul	i think
2021-06-23 20:00:20	c705	ugh
2021-06-23 20:00:24	c705	i have to poop now, bye
2021-06-23 20:00:29	rascul	have a good poop
2021-06-23 20:00:38	c705	i probabl;y won't, but thanks for the well wishes
2021-06-23 20:00:50	curdlesnoot	pity. there I was thinking that there was someone out there that doesn't think the sun shines out of van Rossum's backside.
2021-06-23 20:01:16	rascul	i don't know who van rossum is but suns don't usually shine from the backsides of people
2021-06-23 20:01:32	curdlesnoot	well, if you can figure out how to let the pythonistas know, have at it.
2021-06-23 20:01:41	rascul	let them know what?
2021-06-23 20:01:44	-->	Tyendinaga_ (~Tyendinag@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-120-76-69-123-65.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:01:58	-->	user7 (~quassel@104.254.93.89) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:01:58	curdlesnoot	that you're a bird
2021-06-23 20:02:05	-->	dirgeable__ (~dirgeable@h69-129-115-197.arvdco.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:02:06	rascul	i'm not a bird
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2021-06-23 20:02:17	curdlesnoot	what's that got to do with the prices of bananas in Gibraltar?
2021-06-23 20:02:24	<--	ax56234 (~NickServ@user/ax562) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-23 20:02:26	rascul	probably nothing, but i can't be sure
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2021-06-23 20:03:26	Abrax	shouldnt this be ##linux
2021-06-23 20:03:30	velix	lol, I love the internet. Qquestion "Can I add a rule to iptable as non-root"? Answer. "Yes, just use sudo".
2021-06-23 20:03:34	rascul	should it be ##linux?
2021-06-23 20:03:48	rascul	sudo -u velix make me a sammich
2021-06-23 20:04:07	Abrax	ya i think so
2021-06-23 20:04:11	velix	rascul: professionals use "machinectl shell velix@.host" these days.
2021-06-23 20:04:37	<--	Tyendinaga (~Tyendinag@bras-base-kgtnon0881w-grc-120-76-69-123-65.dsl.bell.ca) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:04:46	curdlesnoot	proper answer: yes if the CAP_NET_ADMIN capability is in effect
2021-06-23 20:05:06	curdlesnoot	but, then again, that's commonly as a results of becoming root.
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2021-06-23 20:05:57	akik	velix: no they don't
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2021-06-23 20:07:02	velix	akik: according to the systemd guys, it's the only way for right TTY and XDG handling.
2021-06-23 20:07:15	rascul	velix i'm not a professional
2021-06-23 20:07:20	akik	sudo -i does just fine
2021-06-23 20:07:22	velix	rascul: it was irony.
2021-06-23 20:07:39	velix	akik: Nope. Doesn't work when the user doesn't have a shell (f.e. system user account).
2021-06-23 20:07:40	rascul	it felt more canvasy
2021-06-23 20:07:47	rascul	wasn't very solid like iron
2021-06-23 20:07:56	akik	i remember reading some poettering post where it sounded like he didn't understand what a root session was
2021-06-23 20:08:03	<--	user7 (~quassel@104.254.93.89) has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-06-23 20:08:05	rascul	root is the worst
2021-06-23 20:08:22	rascul	os shouldn't let you break things with typos
2021-06-23 20:08:47	rascul	just use your computer the way poettering wants you to and you'll be ok
2021-06-23 20:08:49	<--	ax56234 (~NickServ@user/ax562) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:08:56	velix	`rm -rf /` oops, typo
2021-06-23 20:09:01	rascul	no don't do that in here
2021-06-23 20:09:10	<--	antlers (~antlers@70.39.121.42) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:09:13	akik	hypnotoad eyes welcomes our new overlord
2021-06-23 20:09:14	velix	rascul: will it destroy libera?
2021-06-23 20:09:17	rascul	yes
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2021-06-23 20:09:26	akik	rascul: are you an a.i. ?
2021-06-23 20:09:31	rascul	am i?
2021-06-23 20:10:09	velix	american idiot?
2021-06-23 20:10:16	velix	don't wanna be an american idiot *sing*
2021-06-23 20:10:22	velix	I miss them :(
2021-06-23 20:10:22	<--	boxelephant (~boxelepha@d192-24-108-69.col.wideopenwest.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:10:24	<--	alschaapman (alschaapma@user/alschaapman) has left #linux
2021-06-23 20:10:37	akik	https://freenode.net/news/introducing-irc
2021-06-23 20:10:41	rascul	amber ice
2021-06-23 20:10:52	velix	Wow, the song was 2004 !
2021-06-23 20:10:58	neshpion	velix: typing potentially harmful commands in #linux even in jest can anger the opers
2021-06-23 20:11:25	velix	neshpion: "d*l c:\win.com" :D
2021-06-23 20:11:28	velix	sorry
2021-06-23 20:11:31	velix	neshpion: "d*l c:\windows\win.com" :D
2021-06-23 20:11:32	neshpion	:O
2021-06-23 20:11:43	 *	neshpion has disconnected (windows got deyeeted)
2021-06-23 20:12:03	velix	akik: are freenode links allowed on Libera? :D
2021-06-23 20:12:29	akik	deyyyyuummmm
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2021-06-23 20:12:44	akik	it'll soon scroll above the window
2021-06-23 20:12:48	rascul	only some people are allowed to post freenode links on libera
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2021-06-23 20:13:34	rascul	i think t he requirement is that you have to have a nick on libera and be connected at the time
2021-06-23 20:13:39	akik	anyone tested this? https://github.com/hakavlad/prelockd
2021-06-23 20:13:52	akik	"prelockd is a daemon that locks memory mapped executables and shared libraries in memory to improve system responsiveness under low-memory conditions."
2021-06-23 20:13:58	velix	My god ... "Ask not what you can do for freenode, but what freenode will do for you."
2021-06-23 20:14:06	<--	debsan (~debsan@2800:810:471:2ee::1001) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-23 20:14:14	velix	JFK rotates
2021-06-23 20:14:20	-->	debsan (~debsan@2800:810:471:2ee::1001) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:14:36	Kyv	back, and to the left?
2021-06-23 20:14:36	rascul	https://rms.sexy
2021-06-23 20:14:57	-->	justsomeguy (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:15:33	velix	my good... damn early CSI season on TV :D
2021-06-23 20:15:45	velix	oh, first season actually.
2021-06-23 20:15:45	rascul	csi is the worst
2021-06-23 20:15:53	Kyv	rascul: is that where you can create a color scheme for your rms
2021-06-23 20:15:55	akik	the WURST but in a funny way
2021-06-23 20:15:56	velix	"CSI Vegas" will return new with old cast and new episodes.
2021-06-23 20:15:58	rascul	Kyv yes
2021-06-23 20:16:01	rascul	exactly
2021-06-23 20:16:11	velix	akik: I like the tentacle s*x episodes.
2021-06-23 20:16:19	-->	bradd (~bradd@dhcp-108-170-189-238.cable.user.start.ca) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:16:19	velix	tentacle pr*n, sorry
2021-06-23 20:16:26	rascul	brats are the wurst
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2021-06-23 20:16:43	velix	rascul: NEVER look for "brat" on TikTok.
2021-06-23 20:16:59	rascul	easy enough, i never do anything on tiktok
2021-06-23 20:17:02	velix	you're getting confused teens only
2021-06-23 20:17:04	velix	ok
2021-06-23 20:17:09	akik	(•_•) /  ( •_•)>⌐■-■   (⌐■_■)
2021-06-23 20:17:18	Kyv	what are you doing on tiktok otherwise?
2021-06-23 20:17:26	velix	lol, everyone is soo young.
2021-06-23 20:17:34	akik	i wish
2021-06-23 20:17:41	<--	freedomcum (~k3v1n@78.141.227.103) has left #linux (The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
2021-06-23 20:18:00	velix	wow, 21 years ago :o
2021-06-23 20:18:09	velix	akik: was 62 then
2021-06-23 20:18:23	<--	DX099 (~dx099@2a01:e0a:347:f1c1:470a:9242:de9f:c4ca) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:18:42	Kyv	nothing beats the law & order theme song
2021-06-23 20:18:59	velix	Tell me who are you, you you you youuuu
2021-06-23 20:19:02	<--	rudi_s (~simon@user/rudi-s/x-7673890) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-23 20:19:19	<--	Sn4il (~Sn4il@185.212.170.139) has quit (Quit: Sn4il)
2021-06-23 20:19:22	Kyv	someone seems to have been really adamant about not changing it too much
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2021-06-23 20:19:39	velix	NCIS theme is still the same.
2021-06-23 20:19:40	-->	rudi_s (~simon@user/rudi-s/x-7673890) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 20:19:56	velix	Mark Snow rocks;)
2021-06-23 20:20:01	Kyv	when they started offering the different spin-offs that cater to other people such as those who prefer sex crimes
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2021-06-23 20:21:48	velix	Wait, the theme wasn't by mark snow? it's by "Numeriklab" ??
2021-06-23 20:22:03	velix	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z78rPjoIRw
2021-06-23 20:22:05	velix	:o
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2021-06-23 20:22:52	Kyv	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz4-aEGvqQM
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2021-06-23 20:23:38	Kyv	naturally there is an amateur guitar cover in the related
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2021-06-23 20:26:25	Kyv	NCIS one is fine too
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2021-06-23 20:33:47	velix	curdlesnoot: It needs CAP_NET_ADMIN and CAP_NET_RAW additionally
2021-06-23 20:34:55	curdlesnoot	velix: noted.
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2021-06-23 20:35:19	blackgatonegro	Hey guys
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2021-06-23 20:41:20	t1ck	alguem do brasil?
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2021-06-23 20:43:34	velix	looooooool ... CSI NY has recorded the interview on Sony MiniDisk :D
2021-06-23 20:43:39	-->	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:920c:8a00::8df4) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 20:44:30	minimal22	t1ck, habla español?
2021-06-23 20:44:52	t1ck	minimal22: no, me hablo portugues
2021-06-23 20:44:55	t1ck	haha
2021-06-23 20:45:11	Psi-Jack	You want to be hobbled in Brazil? But why?
2021-06-23 20:45:32	minimal22	almost
2021-06-23 20:45:38	Psi-Jack	And the ports need geese? This is getting out of hand!
2021-06-23 20:46:05	minimal22	when i encounter people from brazil they usually speak fluent spanish
2021-06-23 20:46:14	minimal22	not everyone i guess
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2021-06-23 20:57:49	t1ck	minimal22: yeah. where are you from?
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2021-06-23 20:58:41	minimal22	chile
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2021-06-23 21:00:22	t1ck	minimal22: in my town there's so many people from Argentina and Chile
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2021-06-23 21:02:33	rascul	Psi-Jack you don't like geese?
2021-06-23 21:02:47	Psi-Jack	I wouldn't know. Never had geese.
2021-06-23 21:02:54	-->	gr33n7001 (~gr33n7007@user/gr33n7007h) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 21:02:58	rascul	neither have i
2021-06-23 21:03:06	c705	geese are the worst anmals god invented
2021-06-23 21:03:10	rascul	butterflies are good though
2021-06-23 21:03:13	c705	<-- is canadian and knows about geese
2021-06-23 21:03:16	Psi-Jack	But. How do they taste?
2021-06-23 21:03:19	rascul	https://discover.hubpages.com/entertainment/How-to-Make-Deep-Fried-Butterflies
2021-06-23 21:03:47	c705	Psi-Jack: good
2021-06-23 21:03:58	Psi-Jack	Then how are they the worst?
2021-06-23 21:04:13	<--	Gorian (~default@134.134.139.71) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:04:20	rascul	everything is the worst
2021-06-23 21:04:58	<--	gr33n7007h (~gr33n7007@user/gr33n7007h) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:05:19	rascul	except butterflies
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2021-06-23 21:05:29	rascul	butterflies are the best
2021-06-23 21:05:40	Psi-Jack	Hmmm. How do they taste?
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2021-06-23 21:05:45	rascul	delicious
2021-06-23 21:05:47	<--	crankharder (~crankhard@pool-71-127-147-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:05:58	Psi-Jack	Oh? You have eaten butterflies?
2021-06-23 21:06:01	rascul	yes
2021-06-23 21:06:07	rascul	i used that recipe i linked to
2021-06-23 21:06:15	rascul	i dipped them in ranch though
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2021-06-23 21:07:14	Psi-Jack	heh, hmmm
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2021-06-23 21:07:38	Psi-Jack	Will an air fryer work instead of a deep fryer? :)
2021-06-23 21:07:45	rascul	i suppose
2021-06-23 21:08:32	LogicAside	This may be a stupid question but where do I get quantities of butterflies for eats?
2021-06-23 21:08:39	rascul	from outside
2021-06-23 21:08:47	rascul	they just fly around
2021-06-23 21:08:48	LogicAside	I feel like I don't know how to use the shells
2021-06-23 21:09:02	rascul	butterflies don't use shells
2021-06-23 21:09:27	byte4byte	jim where you at?
2021-06-23 21:09:29	-->	frmus (~frmus@user/frmus) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 21:09:32	byte4byte	i got questions
2021-06-23 21:09:32	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:09:41	rascul	jim has been eaten by a python
2021-06-23 21:09:46	LogicAside	I suddenly have so many questions
2021-06-23 21:10:03	rascul	questions are the worst
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2021-06-23 21:11:07	OneLegend	so there's two [R] [[R]]
2021-06-23 21:11:18	rascul	[[R]] is the real [R]
2021-06-23 21:11:19	c705	[R] is fake, [[R]] is the real [R]
2021-06-23 21:11:26	<--	Jormungandr89 (~brad@136.49.61.2) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-23 21:11:37	OneLegend	oh lol
2021-06-23 21:11:40	c705	[R] is just some wanna be name hoarder
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2021-06-23 21:12:30	--	MachX is now known as OneLegend
2021-06-23 21:12:39	OneLegend	speaking of which, I should get some of my old nicks
2021-06-23 21:12:48	rascul	should you, though?
2021-06-23 21:12:54	OneLegend	you're a rascal
2021-06-23 21:13:00	rascul	i am not
2021-06-23 21:13:08	<--	goldfish (~goldfish@user/goldfish) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:13:22	c705	fun fact: these is no way to verify the people are who they say they are on irc
2021-06-23 21:13:22	--	OneLegend is now known as w00tkid
2021-06-23 21:14:12	rascul	i can verify that
2021-06-23 21:14:45	--	w00tkid is now known as [[OneLegend]]
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2021-06-23 21:14:50	c705	no you can't, that would be very difficult actually
2021-06-23 21:14:52	<--	XV8 (~XV8@2601:5cb:c001:50:5992:6ab6:586d:9e24) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-23 21:14:55	[[OneLegend]]	now I'm at the top of the list
2021-06-23 21:14:58	rascul	i can verify that also
2021-06-23 21:15:03	--	[[OneLegend]] is now known as [[[OneLegend]]]
2021-06-23 21:15:12	--	[[[OneLegend]]] is now known as OneLegend
2021-06-23 21:15:17	rascul	i can verify that i verify that verification is difficult
2021-06-23 21:15:19	OneLegend	but do I really want to be on top
2021-06-23 21:15:21	Kyv	are you sure you want to be at the top?
2021-06-23 21:15:24	rascul	OneLegend you're not on top
2021-06-23 21:15:30	OneLegend	not anymore my friend
2021-06-23 21:15:33	OneLegend	oh wait
2021-06-23 21:15:34	rascul	you never were
2021-06-23 21:15:35	Psi-Jack	Never were.
2021-06-23 21:15:46	gartt	I'm the real c705
2021-06-23 21:15:48	rascul	not on my top, anyway
2021-06-23 21:15:52	gartt	Trust me
2021-06-23 21:15:52	--	OneLegend is now known as [[OneLegend]]
2021-06-23 21:15:56	c705	rascul: that's impossible
2021-06-23 21:16:00	[[OneLegend]]	Psi-Jack: now I am
2021-06-23 21:16:03	Psi-Jack	No.
2021-06-23 21:16:09	Psi-Jack	You're on the bottom.
2021-06-23 21:16:09	rascul	c705 i can verify that i'm impossible
2021-06-23 21:16:18	[[OneLegend]]	I'll make you impossible rascul
2021-06-23 21:16:19	c705	i can oob authenticate myself for anyone that's interested, ask me how
2021-06-23 21:16:22	[[OneLegend]]	your ENTIRE EXISTENCE
2021-06-23 21:16:29	 *	[[OneLegend]] encrypts rascal with XChaCha20Poly1305
2021-06-23 21:16:32	[[OneLegend]]	BYE
2021-06-23 21:16:42	--	[[OneLegend]] is now known as OneLegend
2021-06-23 21:16:45	Psi-Jack	In fact, you're more sandwiching yourself between [R] and [[R]] at the bottom. :p
2021-06-23 21:16:48	 *	rascul verifies all the things
2021-06-23 21:16:51	OneLegend	oh
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2021-06-23 21:16:55	OneLegend	well aint that somethin
2021-06-23 21:16:59	c705	rascul: no, you're possible. i just meant your statement was false
2021-06-23 21:17:05	Kyv	pretty disgusting, actually
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2021-06-23 21:17:56	OneLegend	ew?
2021-06-23 21:18:26	-->	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.8.244) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 21:18:40	blackgatonegro	Sony Minidisk?
2021-06-23 21:18:55	blackgatonegro	The things used in the Gamecube?
2021-06-23 21:19:33	Kyv	not a fan of minidisk
2021-06-23 21:19:45	OneLegend	oh
2021-06-23 21:19:52	OneLegend	how does one change name color btw?
2021-06-23 21:20:01	Psi-Jack	OneLegend: You don't.
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2021-06-23 21:20:13	OneLegend	Psi-Jack: what color am I to you?
2021-06-23 21:20:21	Psi-Jack	White.
2021-06-23 21:20:23	OneLegend	oh
2021-06-23 21:20:26	OneLegend	you using IRSSI?
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2021-06-23 21:20:28	Psi-Jack	No.
2021-06-23 21:20:30	OneLegend	I'm using weechat
2021-06-23 21:20:42	<--	Elodin (~weechat@user/elodin) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:20:50	Psi-Jack	I'm in Gnome, so I use a proper GUI IRC client. :p
2021-06-23 21:21:11	rascul	"gnome" and "proper gui" don't work well together
2021-06-23 21:21:16	OneLegend	GNOME is nice
2021-06-23 21:21:17	Psi-Jack	Sure they do. :)
2021-06-23 21:21:17	Kyv	who capitalizes irssi?
2021-06-23 21:21:21	Kyv	what the hell is this?
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2021-06-23 21:21:30	t1ck	Psi-Jack: gnome sucks sometimes
2021-06-23 21:21:34	t1ck	I use it
2021-06-23 21:21:35	Psi-Jack	Sometimes, yes.
2021-06-23 21:21:37	gartt	I've switched many times temporarily. I've always gone back to irssi
2021-06-23 21:21:42	t1ck	it is heavy
2021-06-23 21:21:46	Psi-Jack	No, it's not.
2021-06-23 21:21:47	OneLegend	I like the mouse events in weechat
2021-06-23 21:22:00	OneLegend	Being able to click things is quite a convenience actually
2021-06-23 21:22:00	c705	s/sometimes//
2021-06-23 21:22:03	t1ck	it is at least for me
2021-06-23 21:22:06	gartt	And of course it's nice to be halfway around the world and SSH into my box at home and use screen to jump right in
2021-06-23 21:22:15	Psi-Jack	t1ck: Even for you, it's not. :p
2021-06-23 21:22:20	c705	gartt: yeah, it's nice that i can do that too
2021-06-23 21:22:22	OneLegend	gartt: that's what I do
2021-06-23 21:22:25	gartt	Nothing but an SSH client needed. That's a major advantage for me
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2021-06-23 21:22:36	OneLegend	SSH + byobu + weechat
2021-06-23 21:22:39	Psi-Jack	gartt: tmux.
2021-06-23 21:22:40	Psi-Jack	:p
2021-06-23 21:22:41	t1ck	Plasma on my PC is ligher than a leaf
2021-06-23 21:22:48	rascul	what kind of leaf?
2021-06-23 21:22:50	rascul	nissan?
2021-06-23 21:22:52	Psi-Jack	Even better, ZNC.
2021-06-23 21:22:53	OneLegend	I'm also a fan of plasma
2021-06-23 21:23:01	OneLegend	Plasma has some really powerful customizations
2021-06-23 21:23:03	gartt	Psi-Jack: I like tmux, but I'm time-invested in screen. I'm sure I'll get more familiar later
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2021-06-23 21:23:13	Kyv	dvtm :)
2021-06-23 21:23:16	gartt	All the BSD guys advocate for tmux over screen too
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2021-06-23 21:23:29	OneLegend	wayland is awesome
2021-06-23 21:23:31	Psi-Jack	t1ck: Yet, when you finish it off and load korganizer/kmail/kontact, KDE suddenly comes 200MB more RAM than Gnome with Evolution.
2021-06-23 21:23:43	OneLegend	200MB of ram aint too much amirite
2021-06-23 21:23:48	OneLegend	unused ram is wasted ram
2021-06-23 21:24:01	Psi-Jack	OneLegend: We're not including cache. JUst straight RSS.
2021-06-23 21:24:08	OneLegend	RSS?
2021-06-23 21:24:10	OneLegend	bro
2021-06-23 21:24:12	OneLegend	ok nvm
2021-06-23 21:24:13	Psi-Jack	Learn it.
2021-06-23 21:24:17	gartt	That's like saying being overcharged is ok if you're rich
2021-06-23 21:24:18	Psi-Jack	Use English too.
2021-06-23 21:24:19	rascul	i use rss
2021-06-23 21:24:24	Psi-Jack	And I ain't your "bro".
2021-06-23 21:24:28	gartt	It's the principle of bloat
2021-06-23 21:24:36	Kyv	yeah, I use RSS too
2021-06-23 21:24:39	rascul	also i sometimes use atom
2021-06-23 21:24:44	<--	sebastianos (~sebastian@user/sebastianos) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:24:47	gartt	But, linux and BSD are all about freedom to choose for yourself
2021-06-23 21:24:55	t1ck	Psi-Jack: I didn't use any of that
2021-06-23 21:25:27	Psi-Jack	t1ck: Well, Gnome vs KDE without the mail suites, are basically head to head comparable, in fact, Gnome actually uses slightly less than KDE.
2021-06-23 21:25:34	Psi-Jack	OOTB, specifically. Base.
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2021-06-23 21:25:47	OneLegend	Psi-Jack: have you checked out GNOME 40?
2021-06-23 21:25:53	Psi-Jack	I use Gnome 40 now.
2021-06-23 21:25:56	OneLegend	nice
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2021-06-23 21:26:14	Psi-Jack	I still wish they would do virtual desktops per display like macOS Spaces. :)
2021-06-23 21:26:16	t1ck	Psi-Jack: I don't use neither Evolution nor Thunderbird, so..
2021-06-23 21:26:34	t1ck	Psi-Jack: me too, Gnome 40 on Arch
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2021-06-23 21:26:53	t1ck	Psi-Jack: but for me, GNOME animations sucks
2021-06-23 21:27:07	OneLegend	gnome can be customized
2021-06-23 21:27:08	t1ck	Psi-Jack: I hate it so much
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2021-06-23 21:27:26	OneLegend	to be fair though, dwm and bspwm are dope
2021-06-23 21:27:26	Psi-Jack	t1ck: I do Evolution. Last time I did KMail I still found the exact same artifacts of why I left KDE after over a decade of using KDE.
2021-06-23 21:27:42	rascul	gnome 1 and 2 pretty much determined for me that gnome is useless and goes out of the way to get in the way
2021-06-23 21:27:45	OneLegend	but they don't work on wayland
2021-06-23 21:27:48	OneLegend	so I use sway
2021-06-23 21:27:49	Psi-Jack	t1ck: I only hate that Gnome hides some things into dconf.
2021-06-23 21:28:04	Psi-Jack	rascul: I hated, and still hate Gnome 1-2
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2021-06-23 21:28:29	Kyv	if you have to refer to "binary space partitioning" to explain your wm
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2021-06-23 21:28:31	rascul	i tried gnome a couple years ago and it was still unusable for me
2021-06-23 21:28:34	t1ck	Psi-Jack: yeah, me too. Only way to change GDM theme is manually
2021-06-23 21:28:35	Kyv	you're kind of a wobbly fruitcake
2021-06-23 21:28:48	OneLegend	rascul: do you use a tiling window manager?
2021-06-23 21:28:55	rascul	of course not, i drink beer
2021-06-23 21:29:12	Psi-Jack	t1ck: I don't really do much customization. I do make my Gnome look like macOS dark theme, though. That's about it.
2021-06-23 21:29:33	t1ck	In contrast, KDE Plasma animations works flawlessly
2021-06-23 21:29:38	t1ck	so smooth
2021-06-23 21:29:43	t1ck	at least for me
2021-06-23 21:29:45	rascul	animations are silly
2021-06-23 21:29:47	OneLegend	https://garudalinux.org/
2021-06-23 21:29:52	OneLegend	^this one has some nice animations
2021-06-23 21:30:06	t1ck	OneLegend: I've heard of it
2021-06-23 21:30:29	Kyv	now that is gaudy as hell
2021-06-23 21:30:33	Psi-Jack	Never heard of this. Arch based?
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2021-06-23 21:31:01	t1ck	rascul: I don't like it too, but I use this criteria to choose a Desktop Environment for my PC
2021-06-23 21:31:11	Psi-Jack	yep. 🤮
2021-06-23 21:31:14	t1ck	But in general i deactivate it
2021-06-23 21:31:26	t1ck	Psi-Jack: yeah, i think it is
2021-06-23 21:31:26	rascul	my desktop environment currently fits into 65MB of the memories
2021-06-23 21:31:31	Psi-Jack	t1ck: It is. pamac.
2021-06-23 21:31:44	t1ck	rascul: how so?
2021-06-23 21:31:50	rascul	i don't really care too much about the memories though, that's just what it uses
2021-06-23 21:32:04	t1ck	Arch on cli uses 120MB of memory.
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2021-06-23 21:32:25	Psi-Jack	t1ck: So? Debian uses 80.
2021-06-23 21:32:56	t1ck	Psi-Jack: really?
2021-06-23 21:32:59	Psi-Jack	Really.
2021-06-23 21:33:05	blackgatonegro	wayland can be cool until it does not work right.
2021-06-23 21:33:14	rascul	https://termbin.com/tuct
2021-06-23 21:33:16	t1ck	Psi-Jack: i didn't know, not even like Debian
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2021-06-23 21:33:28	Psi-Jack	I use Debian for a lot of my servers.
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2021-06-23 21:33:37	Psi-Jack	Proxmox VE hypervisor hosts, too. :)
2021-06-23 21:33:43	blackgatonegro	Then you are like "How I do this without wayland?" And there goes two hours of your life.
2021-06-23 21:33:50	rascul	lxpanel is a hog
2021-06-23 21:33:52	Kyv	theres nothing cool about wayland
2021-06-23 21:33:57	Kyv	whats cool about wayland?
2021-06-23 21:34:04	OneLegend	security features mostly
2021-06-23 21:34:07	blackgatonegro	When it works right.
2021-06-23 21:34:08	johnnyapol	in theory security improvements over X
2021-06-23 21:34:13	<--	nickpickerton (~Nick@user/nickpickerton) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:34:14	Khaytsus	I am all about efficiency, but yeah..  I have 32g of ram...
2021-06-23 21:34:26	t1ck	Kyv: wayland is very immature yet
2021-06-23 21:34:29	johnnyapol	although that gets negated when you can still do evil by sending a dbus request for a screenshot
2021-06-23 21:34:37	johnnyapol	and not have it prompt the user
2021-06-23 21:34:38	OneLegend	is there any good security mechanisms for X11?
2021-06-23 21:34:49	OneLegend	I know of nested X server for now
2021-06-23 21:34:56	t1ck	OneLegend: run it rootless
2021-06-23 21:34:57	Kyv	dont run it as root
2021-06-23 21:35:09	blackgatonegro	OneLegend configuration of permissions correctly?
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2021-06-23 21:35:25	OneLegend	I meant to prevent two applications sharing the same X server from "seeing" each other
2021-06-23 21:35:36	rascul	use different x servers
2021-06-23 21:35:40	blackgatonegro	Instead of running everything with high privileges but.. not everyone does that.
2021-06-23 21:35:51	<--	cliluw (~cliluw@47.147.80.149) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:35:54	rascul	maybe xnest some stuff
2021-06-23 21:36:05	OneLegend	I'll try xnest
2021-06-23 21:36:19	blackgatonegro	Let's face it X was not made with the Internet in mind.
2021-06-23 21:36:24	rascul	it wasn't
2021-06-23 21:36:28	Psi-Jack	I used to run xnest to get an x-display on a screen on my keyboard.
2021-06-23 21:36:39	rascul	get your screen off my keyboard
2021-06-23 21:36:47	Kyv	this just sounds like stuff on the front page of the wayland git
2021-06-23 21:37:18	blackgatonegro	So... maybe wayland can become the way to do graphics online... so why they do not focus on that more?
2021-06-23 21:37:19	rascul	xnest isn't likely to get you very far with any security concerns though
2021-06-23 21:37:50	rascul	to whoever i said xnest to
2021-06-23 21:38:06	blackgatonegro	Talking about that... hate the fact they keep trying to mess with open source packages.
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2021-06-23 21:38:10	OneLegend	should I just run a separate X server in a container?
2021-06-23 21:38:28	blackgatonegro	Infect them with malware and that.
2021-06-23 21:38:29	c705	better off running something like wayland
2021-06-23 21:38:40	OneLegend	yea
2021-06-23 21:38:42	blackgatonegro	OneLegend JUST VM EVERYTHING!
2021-06-23 21:38:43	OneLegend	Xwayland
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2021-06-23 21:38:57	blackgatonegro	If you have the power
2021-06-23 21:39:02	rascul	how easy is x in a container? would vm be easier?
2021-06-23 21:39:05	c705	X was never meant to isolate windows from one another. you can set up access control, but it's pretty weak
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2021-06-23 21:39:24	c705	X ina  container is totally doable, albeit a pain in the ass to use
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2021-06-23 21:39:29	johnnyapol	its a relic of a time before sandboxing was cool (and it was very slow)
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2021-06-23 21:39:35	blackgatonegro	VMs are kind of safeish, as long as they are running on everything updated.
2021-06-23 21:39:46	c705	wayland works well for me though, would recommend
2021-06-23 21:39:59	rascul	blackbox doesn't run on wayland
2021-06-23 21:40:02	c705	unless you need screen sharing and print screen and a few other things
2021-06-23 21:40:04	t1ck	c705: me too
2021-06-23 21:40:11	Kyv	neither does dwm
2021-06-23 21:40:11	blackgatonegro	As in there is no way to escape the VM or for the VM to affect the Os running the Vm.
2021-06-23 21:40:12	Kyv	so nope
2021-06-23 21:40:14	johnnyapol	im probably going to be on X until xfce4 mostly works on wayland which is a ways away
2021-06-23 21:40:29	blackgatonegro	When that happens yeah they are safer
2021-06-23 21:40:43	c705	blackgatonegro: that's not explicity true, but it is much more difficult to escape a vm vs a container, sure
2021-06-23 21:40:43	t1ck	hey guys ima hit the hay
2021-06-23 21:40:54	t1ck	see y'all later
2021-06-23 21:40:57	t1ck	bye for now
2021-06-23 21:41:00	rascul	hay is itchy though
2021-06-23 21:41:01	autopsy	no
2021-06-23 21:41:05	autopsy	dont go
2021-06-23 21:41:07	t1ck	rascul: ahha
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2021-06-23 21:41:08	autopsy	\stay
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2021-06-23 21:41:15	autopsy	hay
2021-06-23 21:41:18	 *	rascul does hay farming
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2021-06-23 21:41:27	c705	i'm allergic to hay
2021-06-23 21:41:33	blackgatonegro	c705 as I said VMs can be safer if everything is set up correctly and all is updated.
2021-06-23 21:41:35	autopsy	Me farms some American Death Caps
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2021-06-23 21:41:36	rascul	best not be a hay farmer, then
2021-06-23 21:41:59	autopsy	Hay can you help me with the hay?
2021-06-23 21:42:04	rascul	no
2021-06-23 21:42:12	c705	blackgatonegro: you specifically sid "there is no way to escape the VM or for the VM to affect the Os running the Vm" which i am saying isn't explicity true
2021-06-23 21:42:19	OneLegend	containers are awesome
2021-06-23 21:42:28	autopsy	Oh lord I've got so much bush its athletic.
2021-06-23 21:42:31	rascul	tupperware?
2021-06-23 21:42:37	OneLegend	containers are actually great for security
2021-06-23 21:42:52	OneLegend	docker, LXC,
2021-06-23 21:43:06	c705	no they aren't
2021-06-23 21:43:07	Kyv	blackgatonegro: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2021-21972
2021-06-23 21:43:08	Khaytsus	autopsy: You still drunk or drunk again
2021-06-23 21:43:09	blackgatonegro	containers are not made with safety first in mind but more on "run this on anything" mentality. Sandboxes are better but VMs are even better.
2021-06-23 21:43:15	<--	Leseratte (~florian@user/leseratte) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 21:43:16	blackgatonegro	But there isn't anything that never ever fails.
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2021-06-23 21:43:26	rascul	containers are a bunch of strings tying up a chroot which is barely more than a cdc
2021-06-23 21:43:27	c705	OneLegend: https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/
2021-06-23 21:43:30	rascul	s/cdc/cd/
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2021-06-23 21:43:56	blackgatonegro	c705 No I said 22:40]  blackgatonegro: When that happens yeah they are safer
2021-06-23 21:43:59	Kyv	"A malicious actor with network access to port 443 may exploit this issue to execute commands with unrestricted privileges on the underlying operating system that hosts vCenter Server."
2021-06-23 21:44:08	blackgatonegro	As in it can happen.
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2021-06-23 21:44:15	c705	blackgatonegro: are you serious? read your scroll back, this isn't grade school
2021-06-23 21:44:17	<--	stultusv (~Stultus_V@user/stultusv) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:44:33	rascul	i have a bunch of lxd containers though for container stuff
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2021-06-23 21:45:15	Kyv	or https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/02/armed-with-exploits-hackers-on-the-prowl-for-a-critical-vmware-vulnerability/
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2021-06-23 21:45:49	blackgatonegro	22:39]  blackgatonegro: VMs are kind of safeish, as long as they are running on everything updated. * [22:40]  blackgatonegro: As in there is no way to escape the VM or for the VM to affect the Os running the Vm. *
2021-06-23 21:45:53	c705	so, yes, vms are less risky for escape, but not 100% bulletproof
2021-06-23 21:46:06	OneLegend	how do people escape vms
2021-06-23 21:46:07	<--	nihilus (~nihil@user/nihilus) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:46:07	c705	blackgatonegro: just stop. i really don't care
2021-06-23 21:46:24	johnnyapol	Kyv:that wasn't the VM software itself, whether a management portal for VMs
2021-06-23 21:46:29	OneLegend	I was thinking of exploiting something like Spectre or Meltdown
2021-06-23 21:46:31	<--	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has left #linux (Leaving to take a nap)
2021-06-23 21:46:35	autopsy	This is a stupid conversation.
2021-06-23 21:46:37	johnnyapol	*it was a management portal
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2021-06-23 21:46:42	autopsy	Name one.
2021-06-23 21:46:43	c705	OneLegend: there are several published cves
2021-06-23 21:46:58	autopsy	Name two.
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2021-06-23 21:48:17	c705	autopsy: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=vmware
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2021-06-23 21:48:44	c705	you can replace "vmware" in the query with your hypervisor of choice
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2021-06-23 21:49:35	c705	qemu CVE-2020-35517 was a great one for example
2021-06-23 21:49:48	blackgatonegro	Anything run on a server is going to be have more exposure than anything run on  a local machine so it doesn't surprise me.
2021-06-23 21:50:43	-->	nekobyte (~nekobyte@user/nekobit) has joined #linux
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2021-06-23 21:51:31	OneLegend	thou shalt always encrypt
2021-06-23 21:51:44	-->	orthoplex64 (~crm@70.120.0.94) has joined #linux
2021-06-23 21:51:57	oops	i ordered a domain from my registrar vendor, can i transfer that domain from my registrar vendor to my own dns server which built by myself?
2021-06-23 21:52:15	Psi-Jack	No.
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2021-06-23 21:52:19	Psi-Jack	But you can host your own DNS.
2021-06-23 21:52:33	OneLegend	oops: in order to run a domain server, you have to pay a lot of money to IANA I think
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2021-06-23 21:52:40	Psi-Jack	OneLegend: Wrong.
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2021-06-23 21:52:50	Psi-Jack	In order to be your own Registrar, yes. To run your own DNS servers, no.
2021-06-23 21:53:02	OneLegend	oh
2021-06-23 21:53:06	autopsy	oops, ok but you want to provide DNS answers to your own domain from your 1and1.com right?
2021-06-23 21:53:07	<--	siika (~siika@223.166.246.51) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-23 21:53:22	Psi-Jack	Glue records, is what you're looking for. :)
2021-06-23 21:53:36	autopsy	Blues records actually.
2021-06-23 21:53:47	autopsy	Otis Redding Sittin at the dock of the bay.
2021-06-23 21:53:53	OneLegend	I should setup some tripwire next to my server to shut the machine off and clear the RAM when someone walks near it
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2021-06-23 21:54:23	c705	OneLegend: i can assure you the nsa doesn't care about your goat porn
2021-06-23 21:54:25	Khaytsus	You technically can run your own dns, as long your IP is static of course...  put that in for your DNS servers ont he domain,e tc.  did it for years.  Not great, but does work
2021-06-23 21:54:27	autopsy	Trip the wire trip the quiet spire of tired fire.
2021-06-23 21:54:28	Psi-Jack	better to to use AIDE, or OSSEC's built-in solution.
2021-06-23 21:54:35	Psi-Jack	:)
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2021-06-23 21:55:09	autopsy	You can run your osnw DNS without a static IP address.
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2021-06-23 21:55:28	Psi-Jack	autopsy: Ohh?
2021-06-23 21:55:32	autopsy	DNS server is independant of the IP address you have or don't.
2021-06-23 21:55:36	Khaytsus	He's drunk, don't pay attention to him
2021-06-23 21:55:41	Psi-Jack	Yeah, ^^
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2021-06-23 22:01:33	sudomann	Can anyone explain what "equity points" are for a job?
2021-06-23 22:01:39	autopsy	Oh I guess I say something you don't see it my way, and all of the sudden all conversatio0n stops because I'm inebriated and don't know anything anymore, then what you all gasping?
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2021-06-23 22:02:17	Psi-Jack	sudomann: Ermm. -offtopic, perhaps?
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2021-06-23 22:02:44	Psi-Jack	autopsy: No, it's because you're speaking like you're drunk right now because you make little to NONSENSE.
2021-06-23 22:02:57	autopsy	Ok I agree.
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2021-06-23 22:06:03	c705	what else is new though?
2021-06-23 22:06:50	oops	maybe i didn't make it clear, i ordered a domain from AliCloud, i found i can't bind that domain on my vps ip address, the reason is the domain status is "server hold" , i need provide my real identity to them audit , then i can use that domain if audition
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2021-06-23 22:07:41	c705	oops: is that a question?
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2021-06-23 22:08:05	Psi-Jack	oops: Contact AliCloud support. This isn't a linux question.
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2021-06-23 22:09:44	Psi-Jack	Hmmm, ExpanDrive keeps advertising their crap to me, despite telling them repeatedly to stop.
2021-06-23 22:09:53	Psi-Jack	I even sent them a cease and desist. heh
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2021-06-23 22:11:44	oops	OneLegend: mayby i didn't make it clear, let me make a analogy, i have one dollar in bank which mark the owner is me ,i can transfer this one dollar from one bank to another , but i hope to get the money out from bank and put it in my pocket , the pocket is my dns server which build by myself , it that oky?
2021-06-23 22:12:13	autopsy	Its a benzyl ring.
2021-06-23 22:12:18	Psi-Jack	oops: ...
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2021-06-23 22:13:30	Psi-Jack	You CAN run your own DNS server, but you have to point the DNS Glue records to the appropriate servers and run the DNS server yourself, such as bind, PowerDNS, djbdns, etc.
2021-06-23 22:13:58	Psi-Jack	That is not "transferring", but hosting.
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2021-06-23 22:17:11	tusko	autopsy, indole wat
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2021-06-23 22:24:45	toretto	Is there a way to redirect the stderr to the pipe? Like just like how we redirect the stderr with `>` with `2>` is there a way to do that for the pipe too?
2021-06-23 22:25:23	c705	2>&1 sticks tthe stderr onto stdout which can then be piped
2021-06-23 22:25:27	neshpion	you just want the pipe to *also* catch stderr?
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2021-06-23 22:25:47	toretto	neshpion: not also, only stderr.
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2021-06-23 22:26:37	toretto	`some_command 2> foo` <-- I need to do this for the `|`
2021-06-23 22:26:38	c705	maybe echo hi 1> /dev/null | cat
2021-06-23 22:26:50	c705	i dunno
2021-06-23 22:26:52	kurahaupo	toretto: ask #bash
2021-06-23 22:27:04	c705	assuming they're using bash
2021-06-23 22:27:28	neshpion	`2>&1 1>/dev/null | ` will pipe stderr and dispose of stdout
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2021-06-23 22:28:21	neshpion	but it's not really "piping stderr" it's actually redirecting stderr to stdout and then redirecting fd 1 to /dev/null (the order here means it only disposes of the *original* stdout and not the new stdout which is the former stderr) and stdout gets piped (because as far as i know, only stdout ever gets piped)
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2021-06-23 22:28:51	c705	dare i ask why we want to only pipe stderr somewhere?
2021-06-23 22:28:58	toretto	neshpion: But that also puts the stdout also onto the pipe.
2021-06-23 22:28:58	c705	this is x -> y surely
2021-06-23 22:29:07	kurahaupo	c705: The #bash channel answers questions about any posix shell
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2021-06-23 22:29:27	kurahaupo	c705: and on the whole, more reliably than this channel
2021-06-23 22:29:31	neshpion	toretto: { echo out; echo err >&2; } 2>&1 1>/dev/null | cat  # try it
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2021-06-23 22:30:04	theproffesor	toretto I do that when I want to grab only srderr from something like dd
2021-06-23 22:30:04	Psi-Jack	kurahaupo: Gonna put those gloves on you use to slap the entire channel with? ;)
2021-06-23 22:30:26	c705	he's not wrong though
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2021-06-23 22:30:35	toretto	c705: Because, I use a termbin to share the output of my binary's stderr(like the memory leaks and such) so I only need to redirect the stderr. As of now, I'm doing `./my_bin 2>foo; cat foo | termbin; rm foo` but it's just too long.
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2021-06-23 22:31:06	neshpion	toretto: dare i suggest just ... redirecting stdout and stderr to separate files and then termbinning the one(s) you want?
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2021-06-23 22:31:10	neshpion	or is that too obvious?
2021-06-23 22:31:13	Psi-Jack	command > >(stdlog pipe)  2> >(stderr pipe)
2021-06-23 22:31:14	kurahaupo	toretto: There's a more elegant answer if you're using bash, and an ugly one if you're not
2021-06-23 22:31:18	c705	toretto: if you don't care about stdout at all, then what neshpion said should be fine
2021-06-23 22:31:31	toretto	kurahaupo: I'm using zsh.
2021-06-23 22:31:57	kurahaupo	toretto: { cmd1 2>&1 1>&3 | cmd2 ; } 3>&1
2021-06-23 22:32:00	Psi-Jack	Which is not posix .:)
2021-06-23 22:32:10	OneLegend	POSIX is fun
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2021-06-23 22:32:26	Psi-Jack	Masochistis one, aincha?
2021-06-23 22:32:26	<--	ron1w (~roni@207.248.198.186) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-23 22:32:41	Psi-Jack	s/tis/tic/
2021-06-23 22:32:52	toretto	kurahaupo: zsh: parse error near `\n'
2021-06-23 22:33:20	rascul	zsh is the worst
2021-06-23 22:33:21	kurahaupo	really? That's seriously non posix then
2021-06-23 22:33:31	rascul	can't even parse a newline
2021-06-23 22:33:35	Psi-Jack	zsh doesn't aim to be posix compatible.
2021-06-23 22:33:56	OneLegend	oh my zsh
2021-06-23 22:34:02	Psi-Jack	Ewww
2021-06-23 22:34:06	rascul	oh my, zsh
2021-06-23 22:34:23	Psi-Jack	omz is horrible.
2021-06-23 22:34:43	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: would you happen to know why unregistered users can't speak there?
2021-06-23 22:34:45	Psi-Jack	Zim, however, is nice. :)
2021-06-23 22:34:57	c705	i used zsh for 5 minutes once, it was alrighty then
2021-06-23 22:35:12	<--	travaldo (~travaldo@159.203.88.148) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-23 22:35:13	rascul	takes too much configuring for zsh to act like bash so i gave up
2021-06-23 22:35:21	kurahaupo	toretto: As others have alluded to, there are simpler options if you simply don't care about stdout
2021-06-23 22:35:21	Psi-Jack	I still use zsh to this very day, I even write more zsh scripts than bash scripts./
2021-06-23 22:35:39	toretto	Whatever, at this point, I think I'll just write a function on my .zshrc to take a binary and upload the stderr to a file, dump it to termbin and delete that file. I guess, that'll just do it's job.
2021-06-23 22:35:47	kurahaupo	curdlesnoot: antispam.
2021-06-23 22:35:53	<--	nevoyu (~nevoyu@cpe-192-180-19-146.kya.res.rr.com) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-23 22:36:10	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: but how? I didn't see a ban. is this some channel management thing?
2021-06-23 22:36:29	toretto	Do you what spam means?
2021-06-23 22:36:41	toretto	*know
2021-06-23 22:36:51	kurahaupo	IRC has more and softer options that banning
2021-06-23 22:36:58	rascul	curdlesnoot channel mode +r  https://libera.chat/guides/channelmodes
2021-06-23 22:37:11	neshpion	toretto: you could try `2> >(nc termbin.com 9999)`
2021-06-23 22:37:24	curdlesnoot	rascul: it's not +r. I said they can't speak, not that they can't join.
2021-06-23 22:37:29	rascul	oh
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2021-06-23 22:37:51	curdlesnoot	which I had thought only possible with a specially crafted ban.
2021-06-23 22:37:53	curdlesnoot	but apparently not.
2021-06-23 22:38:05	toretto	neshpion: Oh, that's super neat.
2021-06-23 22:38:07	toretto	That works.
2021-06-23 22:38:10	kurahaupo	In the first few weeks after libera started, there was a massive spam attack
2021-06-23 22:38:16	toretto	neshpion: Mind explaining me what's that?
2021-06-23 22:38:40	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: I sensed that this would be the rationale, but I'm more interested in the how of it at this juncture.
2021-06-23 22:38:53	curdlesnoot	I've just never seen that before.
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2021-06-23 22:39:17	kurahaupo	The "extban" patterns can be used to apply several access flags, not just outright bans
2021-06-23 22:39:39	curdlesnoot	ooh
2021-06-23 22:39:52	kurahaupo	in particular that $~a matches any unauthenticated nick
2021-06-23 22:40:19	neshpion	toretto: my terminology is shaky, so take this with a grain of salt, but the gist i understand is: () creates a subshell, and >() gives the outer shell an input-receiving file descriptor that refers to that subshell. so you can redirect 2 into that file descriptor.  2> is the redirection, >() is the file descriptor, and the contents of () are what runs in the subshell that the file descriptor points
2021-06-23 22:40:22	neshpion	to
2021-06-23 22:40:35	kurahaupo	(poor choice of word, calling them "extbans", gives people the wrong idea)
2021-06-23 22:40:39	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: so, can there be ones in place that are not visible to someone snooping the /ban list?
2021-06-23 22:41:01	neshpion	toretto: the space between > > is important because >> is a completely different meaning
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2021-06-23 22:41:55	kurahaupo	neshpion: does zsh support  process substitution?
2021-06-23 22:42:13	<--	srikavin (~srikavin@user/srikavin) has quit (Quit: Leave)
2021-06-23 22:42:25	sed	any ideas why the terminal commands lag?
2021-06-23 22:42:32	kurahaupo	curdlesnoot: probably, but not settable by non-staff
2021-06-23 22:42:33	sed	And how to fix it?
2021-06-23 22:42:36	neshpion	kurahaupo: like $()? i think so, but i don't use zsh
2021-06-23 22:42:42	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: well, that must be it then.
2021-06-23 22:42:55	sed	like i am installing docker-ce and I am stuck at 8% for over 2 minutes
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2021-06-23 22:43:10	curdlesnoot	neshpion: I think he means <()
2021-06-23 22:43:11	c705	sed: network delay?
2021-06-23 22:43:27	sed	idk it seems to be happening with everything
2021-06-23 22:43:30	kurahaupo	sed: what do you mean by "lag"? Slow to start? Slow to respond? Slow to finish?
2021-06-23 22:43:49	sed	slow to respond it isn't smooth like normal
2021-06-23 22:44:02	sed	delays and stuff
2021-06-23 22:44:09	curdlesnoot	the answer appears to be yes.
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2021-06-23 22:44:16	kurahaupo	sed: what does "uptime" report?
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2021-06-23 22:44:47	sed	22:44:36 up 7 days,  2:03,  1 user,  load average: 8.15, 12.48, 12.56
2021-06-23 22:45:11	kurahaupo	sed: yep, those numbers on the end are too high
2021-06-23 22:45:12	toretto	neshpion: Ah, I see. That makes sense. Thanks.
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2021-06-23 22:45:35	sed	what does it mean the ones on the end?
2021-06-23 22:45:41	kurahaupo	sed: but the 3rd to last is smaller, so things are improving
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2021-06-23 22:46:27	kurahaupo	sed: The number of processes that want to run and are only waiting for an available  CPU core
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2021-06-23 22:46:54	kurahaupo	sed: averaged over ½, 1 & 2 minutes IIRC
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2021-06-23 22:47:07	sed	im not really doing a lot of heavy stuff. The last thing I did was docker build an image
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2021-06-23 22:47:36	kurahaupo	Any time those number exceed 1, your system is going to seem sluggish
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2021-06-23 22:47:46	sed	dang
2021-06-23 22:48:28	kurahaupo	Compiling & building software is typically a CPU-intensive task
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2021-06-23 22:48:55	sed	yea but now i am not doing it anymore
2021-06-23 22:49:15	sed	unless bc kubernetes is running?
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2021-06-23 23:04:21	kurahaupo	sed: as I said, uptime shows rolling averages over tens of seconds or minutes. That's still going to a large number even if the current load is near zero
2021-06-23 23:04:52	sed	oh now i see what you mean ty for repeating
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2021-06-23 23:05:38	sed	maybe bc my machine is not the same ip as what kubernetes things maybe
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2021-06-23 23:15:36	sed	is there a way to configure my current ip's port?
2021-06-23 23:15:44	sed	The connection to the server 192.168.1.223:6443 was refused - did you specify the right host or port?
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2021-06-23 23:15:57	sed	I am on .223 but not the right port
2021-06-23 23:17:01	sed	it is a kubernetes thing. idk how to change this in kubernetes settings after installing it
2021-06-23 23:17:15	sed	every time i suspend/sleep my pc the ip of my machine resets
2021-06-23 23:17:40	sed	so to match kubernetes i need to be on that same port
2021-06-23 23:19:22	sed	netstat says tcp6       0      0 :::6443                 :::*                    LISTEN      433141/kube-apiserv
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2021-06-23 23:23:08	sed	ah i found something
2021-06-23 23:23:21	sed	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54752821/how-to-set-service-node-port-range-and-then-be-able-to-deploy-services-using-the
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2021-06-23 23:30:03	asdfasdf	whos gonna say something first
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2021-06-23 23:30:12	Psi-Jack	Bazinga!
2021-06-23 23:30:16	asdfasdf	holy shit
2021-06-23 23:30:24	asdfasdf	real living people on IRC
2021-06-23 23:30:28	Psi-Jack	Where?!?
2021-06-23 23:30:36	asdfasdf	i thought it was all bots
2021-06-23 23:30:55	[[R]]	asdfasdf: how do you know Psi-Jack isn't a bot?
2021-06-23 23:31:04	Psi-Jack	How do you know [[R]] isn't a bot?
2021-06-23 23:31:08	beast999	I'm not a bot
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2021-06-23 23:31:32	asdfasdf	shit he could be
2021-06-23 23:31:35	asdfasdf	but so could anyone
2021-06-23 23:31:38	superkuh	What if you're the bot?
2021-06-23 23:31:39	asdfasdf	i could be a bot and not even know
2021-06-23 23:31:42	asdfasdf	exactly
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2021-06-23 23:31:46	[[R]]	bestdesign: that's exactly what a bot would say
2021-06-23 23:31:55	[[R]]	beast999*
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2021-06-23 23:32:16	asdfasdf	so... anyone use linux here?
2021-06-23 23:32:31	[[R]]	what's linux?
2021-06-23 23:32:38	liquidsnake	lol
2021-06-23 23:32:39	Psi-Jack	Nope. Nobody out of the 1,415 people here use Linux.
2021-06-23 23:32:43	asdfasdf	don't say it too loud man
2021-06-23 23:32:47	asdfasdf	the man will hear
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2021-06-23 23:39:15	 *	rascul is a rascul
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2021-06-23 23:43:33	 *	rascul is now known to party like a rockstar
2021-06-23 23:43:39	Psi-Jack	hah
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2021-06-23 23:46:11	Psi-Jack	There, zoom all setup for Linux. I'm actually glad Zoom finally made Linux clients.
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2021-06-23 23:47:52	sed	unreal so my uptime numbers went way down after i figured out this kubernetes thing
2021-06-23 23:48:26	[[R]]	🎶 uptime numbers... they've been counting in a downtown world...
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2021-06-23 23:50:15	sed	all bc i had to change to the same ip that the kubernetes api / admin uses
2021-06-23 23:50:25	Psi-Jack	What about bc powder?
2021-06-23 23:50:40	Psi-Jack	or do you mean the calculator?
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2021-06-23 23:51:34	rascul	british columbia?
2021-06-23 23:51:53	[[R]]	beyond compare...
2021-06-23 23:52:01	curdlesnoot	I'll bet they never knew that downtime's nigh... I'll bet the kernel never told them why
2021-06-23 23:52:20	rascul	my bet is on peach pie
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2021-06-23 23:52:34	rascul	because peaches are delicious and so is pie
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2021-06-23 23:53:38	[[R]]	rascul: you should move to the country, you can eat a lot of peaches
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2021-06-24 00:02:57	rascul	[[R]] i'm no president
2021-06-24 00:03:22	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-24 00:47:21	autopsy	Ky is there a reason you are dissolving all over my hand in this bloody game of cat and mouse?
2021-06-24 00:47:30	autopsy	Kyv.
2021-06-24 00:47:49	autopsy	Cause I know you werent thinking of me when you did all that.
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2021-06-24 00:49:39	autopsy	Ok I know make bzImage ; make modules ; make modules_install ; make install
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2021-06-24 00:50:56	autopsy	make nsyncconfig
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2021-06-24 00:52:53	tmpm697	is this linux in general or linux kernel channel?
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2021-06-24 00:56:04	[[R]]	tmpm697: did you even bother to read the topic?
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2021-06-24 00:59:48	Kyv	I'm dissolving :|
2021-06-24 01:00:17	 *	[[R]] freezes Kyv 
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2021-06-24 01:00:27	 *	hell_fire pours more water
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2021-06-24 01:01:42	Kyv	[[R]]: this isnt one of this 'wake you up in 2121' sort of deals right?
2021-06-24 01:02:09	[[R]]	lol
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2021-06-24 01:55:32	autopsy	Ok its all yours have at it.
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2021-06-24 02:01:15	Guest43	Hello
2021-06-24 02:01:20	tmpm697	whoops! :)
2021-06-24 02:01:22	Sassafras	is this legit: https://phanes.silogroup.org/bye-freenode/
2021-06-24 02:01:38	Guest43	I am trying to compile gnutls and it tells me in the ./configure step that it can not find Nettle 3.4.1
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2021-06-24 02:02:58	Guest43	I have installed Nettle 3.7.3 and I export CFLAGS=-I$HOME/.local/include (== CPPFLAGS) and LDFLAGS=-L$HOME/.local/lib and I still get the error. Do I actually need exactly version 3.4.1?
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2021-06-24 02:10:55	tusko	autopsy, why do you have ky all over your hands?
2021-06-24 02:10:58	autopsy	Guest43 likely is you need to -use -l/path/to/nettle/libraries
2021-06-24 02:11:37	autopsy	-L/path/to/nettle/libraries
2021-06-24 02:12:05	Guest43	autopsy: do I need the specified version?
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2021-06-24 02:12:18	Guest43	autopsy: Thank you I installed 3.4.1 just in case but I will try without it first
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2021-06-24 02:13:36	autopsy	GNUTLS Guest43 https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=808327
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2021-06-24 02:15:13	schillingklaus	koji is an aggressive microscopical fungus
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2021-06-24 02:15:53	Guest43	autopsy: so wait, I need to change the linker flags?
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2021-06-24 02:16:36	autopsy	Guest43 yep the linker ld.
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2021-06-24 02:17:23	Guest43	cool, thank you. Your fedora page has no explicit nettle version
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2021-06-24 02:18:32	autopsy	Guest43 you can look at the SRPM, the nettle.spec file is what you want to sede, to see if it has a Requires on gnutls and of what version.
2021-06-24 02:19:08	autopsy	Its easy to build RPMs in Fedora you jsust use: rpmbuild -ba SPECS/kernel.spec
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2021-06-24 02:21:18	Guest43	hmm... I'm not using fedora
2021-06-24 02:21:24	Guest43	well, this is macOS to be honest
2021-06-24 02:21:46	Guest43	But I feel like I'm failing at basic configure && make :(
2021-06-24 02:22:07	autopsy	Its not that basic anyamore.
2021-06-24 02:22:20	autopsy	Not since 1996.
2021-06-24 02:22:38	schillingklaus	there's not much of a diff between macos and a systemd-powered distro
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2021-06-24 02:22:51	Guest43	I'm forced onto this macOS due to work
2021-06-24 02:22:55	autopsy	pkgconifg.pc needs tro know where nettle is so gnutls can build and configure doesn't fail.
2021-06-24 02:22:59	tusko	macos is basically unix
2021-06-24 02:23:01	Guest43	trying to compile Emacs
2021-06-24 02:23:25	Guest43	with everything under ~/.local
2021-06-24 02:23:36	Guest43	maybe the issue is that I don't have pkgconfig
2021-06-24 02:23:43	autopsy	Yep.
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2021-06-24 02:23:51	kirk781	There is a sysmodmap and usermodmap defined in xinitrc file. What is the point of earlier?
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2021-06-24 02:24:23	autopsy	modifier key map
2021-06-24 02:24:29	kirk781	xmodmap was working at startup correctly, however, when I tinkered with and removed the sysmodmap entry, it stopped auto starting. Why?
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2021-06-24 02:25:05	autopsy	kirk781, show me the file you modified.
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2021-06-24 02:25:14	kirk781	autopsy, I know. I have a custom user defined one that I wish to autostart. However, that is run from user directory. There is another one run from /etc/ which err, does nothing
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2021-06-24 02:26:00	Guest43	hehe
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2021-06-24 02:26:17	kirk781	autopsy, I just removed the sysmodmap entry from xinitrc file. I can add it back if I want. I was just trying to understand as to why usermodmap, which is defined in the file, won't work without the sysmodmap entry
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2021-06-24 02:27:48	Guest43	Gosh this is horrible
2021-06-24 02:27:58	Guest43	I'm boxed out of tex and I need to compile it myself
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2021-06-24 02:29:00	Guest43	I mean, compile latex and install tex
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2021-06-24 02:29:18	Guest43	and I have no package manager available
2021-06-24 02:29:19	autopsy	Compile make and install flex
2021-06-24 02:29:28	autopsy	Try Fedora.
2021-06-24 02:29:47	Guest43	I can't change the OS unfortunately
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2021-06-24 02:30:09	kirk781	Guest43, Big Sur?
2021-06-24 02:30:11	Guest43	I'm witnessing some horrors right now that's for sure
2021-06-24 02:30:17	autopsy	SRPM rpmbuild createrepo then dnf install yourfavoritekernelmodulepackage rr17xx.ko or whatever and then lsmod| grep rr or modprobe rr17xx
2021-06-24 02:30:21	Guest43	kirk781: yeah
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2021-06-24 02:31:03	kirk781	Guest43, Usually folks are quite pleased to get a Macbook :p.
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2021-06-24 02:31:17	Guest43	It's OK if you have a root acc
2021-06-24 02:31:38	Guest43	it's not OK when you have a restrictive environment forcing bad services upon you
2021-06-24 02:31:47	Guest43	that you're trying to replace with user installed stuff
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2021-06-24 02:32:15	kirk781	Guest43, Have you used Textual?
2021-06-24 02:32:32	Guest43	No
2021-06-24 02:33:00	autopsy	Guest43 what you are trying to do is violate channel policy and get us to help you on MacOS which is not Linux. Then you are also trying to do this as a user not root, and root as you know is the only user available that has new package install permissions for the system wide PC.
2021-06-24 02:33:05	kirk781	Guest43, Only Mac OS can have a paid for IRC client. That is Textual :p
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2021-06-24 02:33:33	Guest43	autopsy: I'm not trying to get anyone to discuss macOS, that's not fair of you to say
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2021-06-24 02:33:45	Guest43	My questions were related to lib nettle and gnutls
2021-06-24 02:33:51	autopsy	Ok I try not to notice but you said you were on MacOS.
2021-06-24 02:34:04	autopsy	I try to ignore it actaully.
2021-06-24 02:34:09	Guest43	you mentioned fedora and I was on macOS did that violate policy?
2021-06-24 02:34:22	autopsy	I mentioned Fedoraq which is Linux.
2021-06-24 02:34:39	Guest43	You're assuming bad faith of me
2021-06-24 02:34:45	kirk781	There's an Apple channel on this server as well
2021-06-24 02:35:15	autopsy	I'm just saying its not everyday we get to figure out what your PC is up to with a user perusing around using make.... alll the TIME.
2021-06-24 02:35:28	Guest43	it's called LFS
2021-06-24 02:35:39	autopsy	LFS is Linux.
2021-06-24 02:35:44	Guest43	sure
2021-06-24 02:35:54	Guest43	I need to go, thanks for the help
2021-06-24 02:35:56	tusko	mac osx is basically unix
2021-06-24 02:35:57	<--	Guest43 (~Guest43@gw.oist.jp) has quit (Quit: Guest43)
2021-06-24 02:36:12	tusko	yw
2021-06-24 02:37:07	Sauvin	That would be "you're welcome", not "yw".
2021-06-24 02:37:16	Sauvin	autopsy, what was Guest43 asking about?
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2021-06-24 02:37:47	autopsy	He asking about gnuTLS and Nettle version 3.4.1 or does he need 3.7.5 exactly which one.
2021-06-24 02:38:04	autopsy	So nobody knows becacuse we're not there with you.
2021-06-24 02:38:46	autopsy	Thats true but what else.
2021-06-24 02:38:50	Sauvin	What the actual flip is "nettle"?
2021-06-24 02:38:52	autopsy	Nothing see.
2021-06-24 02:39:11	autopsy	Ok no which version exactly the one configrue asks for or something else?
2021-06-24 02:39:37	kirk781	Also, what's the proper way to reference xbindkeys so that is starts? I tried how it was written in Arch Wiki, but sadly no resukt
2021-06-24 02:42:06	autopsy	Nettle is easy GNU TLS is also easy.
2021-06-24 02:42:22	autopsy	Its not easy for him, but hey thats why he asksed.
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2021-06-24 02:48:00	autopsy	Guest43, you can always rpmbuild -bb SPECS/kernel.spec
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2021-06-24 03:05:54	autopsy	https://imgur.com/gallery/OAor0OR
2021-06-24 03:05:59	-->	ryzenda (~ryzenda@21.sub-174-203-99.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 03:06:26	autopsy	This is how we write out psuedocode to later put to terminal and yes I use vi.
2021-06-24 03:06:54	-->	Dalvini (~nil@2a01:e34:ec21:a20:3cf2:bbde:35a1:f903) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 03:07:07	autopsy	So do you oh I knew that.
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2021-06-24 03:07:40	autopsy	Thaqts why you were woidnring why your #!/bin/bash was not blue write?
2021-06-24 03:08:20	autopsy	aPPRECIATE VI IMPROVED FOR WHAT IT IS AN EDITOR AND ITS PERFECTLY RAINBOW COLORED INSIDE.
2021-06-24 03:08:28	autopsy	Dam caps lock.
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2021-06-24 03:09:05	Samizdat	A *likely* story, topsy.
2021-06-24 03:09:36	autopsy	Nawww. Its rare like gold and leprechauns
2021-06-24 03:10:16	Samizdat	emacs ftw
2021-06-24 03:10:25	autopsy	The knives sharpen those pencils. I'm straight outt of thejungle I guess.
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2021-06-24 03:10:45	autopsy	Try me later or try me when I die try me dont try me actually I hate court.
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2021-06-24 03:12:16	autopsy	I shrpen my knife with a 3000/8000 brick (Corundum Aluminum Oxide) And I sharpen the pencils with the knife. I write with that.
2021-06-24 03:12:34	autopsy	Like every day then I use vi.
2021-06-24 03:12:39	autopsy	Every day.
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2021-06-24 03:13:11	c705	of course you do
2021-06-24 03:13:36	autopsy	I got so much paper..
2021-06-24 03:13:51	autopsy	I'm rolling in cheese.
2021-06-24 03:14:10	autopsy	I'm balling. c705 what paper mache do you use?
2021-06-24 03:14:23	autopsy	Is it even white?
2021-06-24 03:14:50	Mekaneck	can't you take the chit chat over to the offtopic channel?
2021-06-24 03:14:56	autopsy	Yeah.
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2021-06-24 03:15:30	rbh	does anyone know where I could ask kvm questions?
2021-06-24 03:15:36	c705	here is fine
2021-06-24 03:15:43	rbh	their irc is supposed to be on freenode
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2021-06-24 03:16:05	autopsy	c705 here is fine, who told you that?
2021-06-24 03:16:17	mlu	some dog I bet
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2021-06-24 03:16:25	autopsy	It was not me.
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2021-06-24 03:17:21	rbh	c705: its related to the source for x86, reading guest vitrual mem works fine but writing to guest virtual mem always seems to be causing a PF exception. (all using functions already provided by kvm)
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2021-06-24 03:17:44	rbh	I'm trying to patch the source to add some functionality
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2021-06-24 03:18:44	c705	i mean that you should ask the devs
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2021-06-24 03:19:18	c705	#kvm
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2021-06-24 03:20:11	autopsy	c705, so when did you become crossing gaurd forr ouse?
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2021-06-24 03:22:20	autopsy	I forgot my username and password for Redhat bugzilla which I need for ABRT
2021-06-24 03:22:43	autopsy	I got 15 component failures.
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2021-06-24 03:24:49	autopsy	I didn't forget I changed the password and failed to recall if it was the 4th or 1st one I have in mind.
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2021-06-24 03:54:09	talismanick	I read through the pertinent pages in the arkenfox user.js wiki - I now know how it works, but am none the wiser on how to best go about installing it
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2021-06-24 03:55:29	talismanick	cp'ing the user.js into a new profile copied from the old one seems like a violation of source control (if I pull from origin/master, it'll be stale)
2021-06-24 03:56:08	talismanick	I could symlink it, but that still seems hackish. Either I'm blind or the "proper" install instructions are missing.
2021-06-24 03:57:20	talismanick	ah, nvm
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2021-06-24 03:57:47	talismanick	it's in section 2.* under a misleading name and I'm bad at reading instructions
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2021-06-24 03:58:37	schillingklaus	pay your 705$ to c705, who will then take care of your misleading troubles
2021-06-24 03:58:59	neshpion	no it's only $7.05
2021-06-24 03:59:15	autopsy	Actually .705 cents
2021-06-24 03:59:18	neshpion	¢705
2021-06-24 03:59:36	autopsy	Its only 70% of a single cent actaully.
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2021-06-24 04:08:30	akik	autopsy: check your e-mail for that info on old messages
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2021-06-24 04:19:11	varaindemian	trying to issue this command: `chromium-browser --new-window` and I get the followig output: `[3111:3111:0624/111650.360858:ERROR:browser_main_loop.cc(1402)] Unable to open X display.'
2021-06-24 04:19:17	akik	talismanick: what was the problem? user.js is just a text file with your chosen preferences
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2021-06-24 04:21:32	varaindemian	any idea?
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2021-06-24 04:22:14	autopsy	varaindemian, yeah your DISPLAY is not found.
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2021-06-24 04:24:07	varaindemian	autopsy how can I fix this?
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2021-06-24 04:24:11	varaindemian	I tried export XAUTHORITY=/home/bss/.Xauthority
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2021-06-24 04:28:06	akik	varaindemian: don't change your session once you login
2021-06-24 04:28:24	varaindemian	akik what do you mean?
2021-06-24 04:28:29	akik	varaindemian: after login, check "echo $DISPLAY"
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2021-06-24 04:28:54	akik	varaindemian: you're changing the session settings somehow if the DISPLAY variable gets lost/changed
2021-06-24 04:30:25	varaindemian	it's empty, right after login
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2021-06-24 04:30:41	akik	there's your problem
2021-06-24 04:31:55	autopsy	akik, I checked my email all I saw was asn email from MAry and some more shit from Quora.com
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2021-06-24 04:34:14	autopsy	akik, you mean my memos?
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2021-06-24 04:43:00	akik	autopsy: you didn't receive an e-mail when you registered the account?
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2021-06-24 04:44:49	autopsy	akik, oh yeah actually but it just had me put a srtring into verify register it was like O!if45S2FrtolmnSderR45
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2021-06-24 04:46:28	autopsy	autopsy,
2021-06-24 04:46:29	autopsy	In order to complete your account registration, you must type the following
2021-06-24 04:46:29	autopsy	command on IRC:
2021-06-24 04:46:37	autopsy	Nothing else after that.
2021-06-24 04:47:01	-->	slavfox (~slavfox@ipv4-93-158-232-111.net.internetunion.pl) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 04:47:25	autopsy	And its not important
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2021-06-24 04:49:05	varaindemian	autopsy I am not sure why it is not populated right after login. I have autologin enabled
2021-06-24 04:49:05	--	nex is now known as Guest9297
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2021-06-24 04:49:22	varaindemian	akik ^
2021-06-24 04:49:30	varaindemian	sorry autopsy
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2021-06-24 04:49:35	--	Guest9297 is now known as NexAdn
2021-06-24 04:50:35	akik	autopsy: the e-mail address is the login name
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2021-06-24 04:51:58	autopsy	Thats what I figured after seeing it onn screen.
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2021-06-24 04:55:49	autopsy	varaindemian, its probably because you are not using Xorg or Gnome Classsic which uses Xorg or its suing wayland.
2021-06-24 04:56:08	-->	chris64 (~chris@user/chris64) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 04:56:16	autopsy	DISKAPKLY is a Xorg thing
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2021-06-24 04:59:39	autopsy	varaindemian, did you try runlevel 3 then from the terminal startx and then check DISPLAY?
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2021-06-24 05:04:42	autopsy	Hi Nokaji
2021-06-24 05:04:47	autopsy	Hi Smokie
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2021-06-24 05:08:01	autopsy	In 1998 RedHat was a 29 million dollar industry.
2021-06-24 05:10:21	swarfega	and most people were using Windows 98
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2021-06-24 05:11:12	akik	most people are still using windows
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2021-06-24 05:22:52	Nokaji	Hiyas autopsy
2021-06-24 05:23:06	very_sneaky	hey all, having a weird issue with a new debian vm - dhcp leases don't seem to be auto-renewing. `systemctl status networking.service` shows no error logs, and i can see that the current lease is expired. Manually forcing a lease fresh with `ifdown <interface; ifup <interface>;` will work, but this vm is hosting a service so id on't really want to do this every few hours. Nothing that i can see in
2021-06-24 05:23:08	very_sneaky	the logs corresponds with the lease expiry - can anybody point me in the right direction? how i can further debug this?
2021-06-24 05:23:11	autopsy	Hi.
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2021-06-24 05:23:52	autopsy	DHCP leases are hadned out right now using what?
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2021-06-24 05:24:22	very_sneaky	my router hands the leases out
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2021-06-24 05:25:20	autopsy	Wow. So you need to modify your firmware image and get DHCPd to do a better job at renewing the leases.
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2021-06-24 05:25:52	autopsy	Its up to the DHCP server not the client dude.
2021-06-24 05:26:13	very_sneaky	autopsy: I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. My router _provides_ the leases, but each client has the responsibility to request them iirc. I'm pretty sure this is a case of the client not requesting a renewal
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2021-06-24 05:28:34	autopsy	very_sneaky,  sneaky well you could alswyas try dsomething other than the debian VM and see if that machine renews leases by its side or if it is in fact your router.
2021-06-24 05:28:58	autopsy	You could eliminate the if in this.
2021-06-24 05:29:03	very_sneaky	autopsy: I have ~15 clients on the network renewing leases without any problems
2021-06-24 05:29:11	autopsy	Thgen it wouild be determined a fact that you neeeedd help.
2021-06-24 05:29:32	autopsy	very_sneaky, ok.
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2021-06-24 05:35:14	very_sneaky	this is happening in two debian vm's that I've set up using bhyve. After detaching the cdrom device, i had to make changes to /etc/network/interfaces to make sure the correct network interface was listed... but it is :\
2021-06-24 05:35:34	haroon	Hi I'm trying to setup a custom file in /etc/sudoder.d. I copied the sudoers file and modified it. I would expect, that the modifications in /etc/sudoers.d would override the configuration in /etc/sudoers. For example I tried to define, that noone on the system can use "sudo vi" with the command alias EDITORS linking to the binaries and defining
2021-06-24 05:35:34	haroon	"Defaults!EDITORS noexec" at the begining. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, because I can still use "sudo vi". I hope someone can point me in the right direction or educate me. Thanks.    http://ix.io/3qXq
2021-06-24 05:36:22	autopsy	Use a group instead.
2021-06-24 05:36:45	autopsy	Just because its super easy.
2021-06-24 05:36:53	autopsy	Extra easy.
2021-06-24 05:37:01	schillingklaus	the infamous autopsy group
2021-06-24 05:37:01	autopsy	Grande easy.
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2021-06-24 05:39:44	haroon	autopsy: do you mean like "%group ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL !EDITOR"?
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2021-06-24 05:39:59	autopsy	haroon, yep.
2021-06-24 05:41:34	haroon	I see, thanks for the suggestion this will get hard to read, if I restrict a lot of thing. Is there a way to make it look cleaner? Like can I expand it over multiple lines? And can you tell me why does it not work with Default!EDITORS noexec? just my personal education.
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2021-06-24 06:01:45	bewees	is xen a real microkernel like sel4 is?
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2021-06-24 06:24:24	akik	xen is a hypervisor
2021-06-24 06:25:30	akik	it starts the kernel
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2021-06-24 06:26:26	akik	the kernel for dom0
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2021-06-24 06:36:20	b0b	haroon: from man 5 sudoers: "Note that"
2021-06-24 06:36:23	b0b	     this will not effectively constrain users with sudo ALL privileges.
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2021-06-24 06:48:27	dostoyevsky2	When I start docker without inet access, I cannot start X11 applications -- but I thought X11 would use a socket in /tmp/.X11-unix for communicating with X11 -- did I configure that somehow to use a port on localhost?
2021-06-24 06:49:28	SkunkyLaptop	dostoyevsky2: if it can't resolve your hostname, it'll take... forever, for X things to start
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2021-06-24 06:50:12	dostoyevsky2	SkunkyLaptop: % glxgears # -> Error: couldn't open display :0.0
2021-06-24 06:50:27	dostoyevsky2	I see this immediately
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2021-06-24 06:50:54	SkunkyLaptop	dostoyevsky2: ah, that's more a permissions problem
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2021-06-24 06:51:32	jjakob	dostoyevsky2: what does docker have to do with X?
2021-06-24 06:52:32	dostoyevsky2	jjakob: I don't have a problem outside docker to start glxgears.. and inside docker too, but only if I have internet access inside docker... --net=none and I see the error message above
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2021-06-24 06:53:16	gru	i have some services with the D status flag
2021-06-24 06:53:17	jjakob	so you're running X apps inside docker that connect to Xorg server outside it?
2021-06-24 06:53:25	gru	like "ip a"
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2021-06-24 06:53:36	gru	they crash my system. how do i stop them?>
2021-06-24 06:53:55	gru	i have a very high load (4) with an idle cpu
2021-06-24 06:54:10	jjakob	gru: something I/O is stalled
2021-06-24 06:54:12	ananke	gru: your disk storage is dead
2021-06-24 06:54:45	jjakob	ip a is in D too?
2021-06-24 06:54:52	jjakob	look at dmesg for errors
2021-06-24 06:55:19	akik	dostoyevsky2: i don't know what the solution would be but there's little harm for giving internet accesss if you don't publish any ports
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2021-06-24 06:55:58	jjakob	dostoyevsky2: I would run a tcpdump inside the container while starting the x app and see what it tries to do
2021-06-24 06:56:26	gru	@jjakob: yes, ip a is also in D
2021-06-24 06:56:48	ananke	if you can't run ip, it's unlikely you'll be able to run dmesg
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2021-06-24 06:57:00	gru	@ananke: what do you mean bz storage is dead?
2021-06-24 06:57:05	gru	i am able to run dmesg
2021-06-24 06:57:22	gru	there is an error around internal_create_group
2021-06-24 06:57:33	gru	cant create group docker0/bridge
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2021-06-24 06:57:58	gru	unable to handle kernel paging request a virtual adress..
2021-06-24 06:57:59	ananke	gru: state D means waiting for disk I/O. if you can't run 'ip' without it stalling, it likely means problems with whatever storage serves your /usr
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2021-06-24 06:58:33	dostoyevsky2	So I tracked it down to: `-v /tmp/.X11-unix/' vs `--mount src="/tmp/.X11-unix/",target=/tmp/.X11-unix/,type=bind'  Only the latter will actually make the socket /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 available inside the container....
2021-06-24 06:58:53	a6a45081-2b83	I'm using rofi, can anyone suggest if it is possible to use it to search files and define words and move it to top like dmenu
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2021-06-24 06:59:40	dostoyevsky2	akik: I am a bit disappointed that cgroups don't allow to easily control any connections that are done from within the container...
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2021-06-24 07:00:37	akik	dostoyevsky2: don't you need to add both the host side dir and the container side dir for -v ?
2021-06-24 07:01:03	jjakob	akik: no, docker will create a host side volume dir for you in /var/lib/docker/volumes/
2021-06-24 07:01:18	jjakob	so only the 2nd form actually does what he wants to do
2021-06-24 07:01:20	akik	jjakob: /tmp/.X11-unix is a directory on the host
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2021-06-24 07:01:34	gru	@ananke: calling ip indeed stalls my linux box.. but i can write in /usr/
2021-06-24 07:01:44	jjakob	if you don't specify a host dir, docker will create one for you in /ver/lib/docker/volumes.
2021-06-24 07:02:03	akik	i.e. it's the x11 socket that needs to be shared into the container
2021-06-24 07:02:27	akik	it's not about volumes
2021-06-24 07:02:42	jjakob	I know. to mount a specific host dir, not the one docker will create for you, you need to explicitely specify the source dir.
2021-06-24 07:02:56	jjakob	docker does call them volumes
2021-06-24 07:03:07	jjakob	all volumes are bind mounts
2021-06-24 07:03:27	akik	but i mean for this use case there's no need to touch /ver/lib/docker/volumes
2021-06-24 07:03:33	jjakob	sigh
2021-06-24 07:03:43	akik	what
2021-06-24 07:03:53	jjakob	rtfm
2021-06-24 07:03:53	akik	he's just sharing the x11 socket from the host into the container
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2021-06-24 07:05:54	jjakob	they changed their docs, they're crap now
2021-06-24 07:06:03	jjakob	they used to explain volumes better
2021-06-24 07:06:32	akik	for example jess frazelle has this in her docker run commands: -v /tmp/.X11-unix:/tmp/.X11-unix \
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2021-06-24 07:07:03	jjakob	yes, that is a volme with both source and destination dirs specified, as you need to do
2021-06-24 07:07:18	akik	and it's missing from dostoyevsky2's command
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2021-06-24 07:07:50	jjakob	if you don't specify the source dir that's called an anonymous volume and then docker will pick a source dir for you in /var/lib/docker/volumes
2021-06-24 07:07:57	jjakob	a source dir always has to exist
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2021-06-24 07:08:18	akik	we're not creating a docker volume for this use case
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2021-06-24 07:08:24	jjakob	docker will name the volume by some predetermined pattern
2021-06-24 07:08:36	jjakob	yes you are
2021-06-24 07:08:38	akik	no
2021-06-24 07:08:50	akik	it's bind mounting that dir into the container
2021-06-24 07:08:51	jjakob	-v creates volumes. nothing more, nothing less
2021-06-24 07:08:57	jjakob	potato potato
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2021-06-24 07:09:06	jjakob	all volumes are bind mounts
2021-06-24 07:09:19	akik	but this one is not :D -v /tmp/.X11-unix:/tmp/.X11-unix
2021-06-24 07:09:21	jjakob	docker doesn't call them bind mounts, it calls them volumes
2021-06-24 07:09:31	akik	that is not a docker volume
2021-06-24 07:09:42	jjakob	then what is it
2021-06-24 07:09:43	qman	it is a docker volume
2021-06-24 07:09:46	qman	thus the -v switch
2021-06-24 07:09:47	akik	it's a bind mount
2021-06-24 07:09:59	akik	you will not see it in /var/lib/docker/volumes
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2021-06-24 07:10:04	jjakob	WRONG
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2021-06-24 07:10:18	jjakob	it's a HOST VOLUME
2021-06-24 07:10:35	jjakob	https://docs.docker.com/glossary/#volume
2021-06-24 07:10:41	jjakob	please RTFM
2021-06-24 07:10:44	qman	/var/lib/docker/volumes is just the location where it creates new volumes by default, as mentioned you can specify a different source, and it's still a volume
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2021-06-24 07:11:05	jjakob	/var/lib/docker/volumes is where docker places ANONYMOUS VOLUMES
2021-06-24 07:11:21	jjakob	but there are 3 types of volumes, not just anonymous
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2021-06-24 07:12:54	jjakob	oh both anonymous and named volumes go into /var/lib/docker/volumes
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2021-06-24 07:15:01	qman	yes
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2021-06-24 07:22:29	qman	and yeah, that section on volumes is worse than it used to be
2021-06-24 07:22:39	qman	the compose file reference section on volumes is better https://docs.docker.com/compose/compose-file/compose-file-v3/#volumes
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2021-06-24 07:26:00	gru	jjakob, here are some errors in dmesg> https://pastebin.com/jMzj93Nh
2021-06-24 07:26:17	gru	do you think they are relevant to the stalled processes?
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2021-06-24 07:26:50	jjakob	I didn't touch docker run once ever since I started using compose
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2021-06-24 07:27:20	jjakob	I'm considering switching to swarm since they support more permission control on secrets
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2021-06-24 07:27:44	jjakob	what's good is swarm uses docker-compose.yml too so there's minimal changes needed to port
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2021-06-24 07:29:49	jjakob	gru: probably, you have a WARNING and a Oops in there
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2021-06-24 07:33:24	gru	jjakob, yes, but how can i see what is wrong and how to fix it?
2021-06-24 07:33:37	gru	i uninstalled docker, but it does not help
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2021-06-24 07:34:22	jjakob	I can't find anything relevant on the net so no idea
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2021-06-24 07:35:31	jjakob	https://lore.kernel.org/patchwork/patch/352271/ maybe
2021-06-24 07:35:38	akik	jjakob: i tested the gparted docker image and boy are you WRONG
2021-06-24 07:35:49	jjakob	2013, not fixed
2021-06-24 07:36:00	akik	jjakob: but you're so passionate it's commendable, just that your facts were wrong
2021-06-24 07:36:13	jjakob	alright please explain how I am wrong
2021-06-24 07:36:32	akik	you will not see the x11 socket bind mount in /var/lib/docker/volumes
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2021-06-24 07:37:02	jjakob	of course not, because it's a host volume, not a anonymous or named volume
2021-06-24 07:37:18	jjakob	did you read what host volume means?
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2021-06-24 07:37:26	akik	right so now you're going back on your word
2021-06-24 07:37:45	akik	there is not docker volume created for that bind mount
2021-06-24 07:37:46	jjakob	LOL how
2021-06-24 07:37:55	jjakob	again
2021-06-24 07:37:56	akik	docker volume ls stays empty
2021-06-24 07:38:04	jjakob	all docker volumes are bind mounts. ALL
2021-06-24 07:38:17	jjakob	and vice versa
2021-06-24 07:38:31	akik	14:01 < jjakob> akik: no, docker will create a host side volume dir for you in /var/lib/docker/volumes/
2021-06-24 07:38:39	akik	      WRONG -^
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2021-06-24 07:39:17	jjakob	it's correct as that was a reference to [13:00:37] <akik> dostoyevsky2: don't you need to add both the host side dir and the container side dir for -v ?
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2021-06-24 07:39:31	jjakob	you don't NEED to but HE probably WANTS to
2021-06-24 07:39:32	akik	jjakob: yes he's missing the other part of it
2021-06-24 07:39:47	akik	jjakob: you're a stubborn sob
2021-06-24 07:39:53	jjakob	if you don't you create an anonymous volume but it's still a valid volume
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2021-06-24 07:40:28	jjakob	obviously not what he wants to do but -v doesn't require it
2021-06-24 07:40:30	akik	there's NO NEED to create a docker volume for this use case
2021-06-24 07:40:35	jjakob	his situation requires it
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2021-06-24 07:40:46	gtlsgamr	Hey]
2021-06-24 07:40:54	jjakob	well, again you are wrong on your terminology
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2021-06-24 07:41:12	jjakob	-v /source:/dir is a docker volume
2021-06-24 07:41:22	akik	jjakob: that's not the syntax he used
2021-06-24 07:41:35	jjakob	in docker world it's a volume, in linux world it's a bind mount
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2021-06-24 07:41:55	jjakob	<akik> there's NO NEED to create a docker volume for this use case
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2021-06-24 07:42:09	jjakob	but yet -v /source:/dir is a docker volume
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2021-06-24 07:42:20	akik	and docker volume ls stays empty
2021-06-24 07:42:25	jjakob	you can't achieve that without it being a docker volume
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2021-06-24 07:43:07	gtlsgamr	docker more like choker amiriet
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2021-06-24 07:43:50	jjakob	then their documentation is wrong because I go by their documentation and terminology
2021-06-24 07:44:08	jjakob	-v is a switch for creating volumes, period
2021-06-24 07:44:53	jjakob	if you use -v and create a volume with it and volume ls doesn't show it, yet their docs say volume ls shows all volumes, either their docs are wrong or their code is wrong
2021-06-24 07:46:00	akik	now you're learning
2021-06-24 07:46:06	jjakob	they also explicitly say in the glossary that "host volume" is a type of volume and -v /src:/dest creates a host volume
2021-06-24 07:46:45	jjakob	no, I was never wrong, they are wrong
2021-06-24 07:47:04	akik	using this syntax doesn't even work -v /tmp/.X11-unix/
2021-06-24 07:47:21	akik	14:01 < jjakob> akik: no, docker will create a host side volume dir for you in /var/lib/docker/volumes/
2021-06-24 07:47:25	akik	i'll print that out
2021-06-24 07:47:27	jjakob	and you were stating that -v /src:/dest creates a bind mount, but the docs don't say that's the case, they even explicitly say that's a volume
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2021-06-24 07:47:48	jjakob	akik: drop the trailing /
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2021-06-24 07:48:02	akik	jjakob: that's the syntax he was trying to use
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2021-06-24 07:48:22	akik	usually ////// == /
2021-06-24 07:48:47	jjakob	usually
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2021-06-24 07:51:23	jjakob	this is a example in their docs "$ docker run --read-only -v /icanwrite busybox touch /icanwrite/here"
2021-06-24 07:51:40	jjakob	so obviously -v /tmp/.X11-unix is a valid volume definition
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2021-06-24 07:52:15	akik	jjakob: where does that appear in the container?
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2021-06-24 07:52:25	jjakob	in /tmp/.X11-unix
2021-06-24 07:52:40	akik	that syntax doesn't work
2021-06-24 07:52:50	akik	it needs the other part too
2021-06-24 07:53:02	jjakob	how doesn't it work?
2021-06-24 07:53:11	jjakob	it works in the docker context
2021-06-24 07:53:31	jjakob	but it's not what he needed to do to get his x app working
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2021-06-24 07:54:02	jjakob	so it was his problem not correctly creating the volume, not docker's fault, in docker's context it's correct
2021-06-24 07:54:17	akik	if i leave the other part out, the program won't open
2021-06-24 07:54:27	jjakob	yes obviously
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2021-06-24 07:54:52	jjakob	because leaving out the source dir, docker will create an anonymous volume in /var/lib/docker/volumes
2021-06-24 07:55:17	akik	docker run -it     -v /tmp/.X11-unix     -e DISPLAY=unix$DISPLAY     --device /dev/sda:/dev/sda     --name gparted     jess/gparted /bin/bash <- /tmp/.X11-unix is empty in the container
2021-06-24 07:55:28	jjakob	and that's not good when the goal is to bind mount the same dir on the host as the container
2021-06-24 07:55:48	akik	you don't have to tell me what the issue is :)
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2021-06-24 07:55:56	jjakob	empty? but the directory exists?
2021-06-24 07:56:08	akik	yes it's empty, maybe it comes from the docker image
2021-06-24 07:56:16	jjakob	no, docker creates it
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2021-06-24 07:56:30	jjakob	a freshly created volume is an empty dir
2021-06-24 07:56:50	jjakob	* freshly created anonymous or named volume
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2021-06-24 07:57:27	jjakob	a host volume (or bind mount, which are the same, just different terminology) will contain whatever the host contains
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2021-06-24 07:57:47	akik	why are you talking about anonymous or named volumes as neither applies to this use case?
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2021-06-24 07:58:26	jjakob	because  -v /tmp/.X11-unix is an anonymous volume and you're asking why /tmp/.X11-unix is empty in the container
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2021-06-24 07:58:51	akik	no i'm not asking
2021-06-24 07:58:53	akik	i'm stating
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2021-06-24 08:00:27	jjakob	can we just agree that docker docs are conflicting and their terminology is confusing?
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2021-06-24 08:01:13	jjakob	they call the same thing 2 different terms and use them in different contexts in different parts of the manual
2021-06-24 08:01:26	jjakob	and they have 2 switches that do exactly the same thing
2021-06-24 08:01:35	akik	sure
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2021-06-24 08:02:10	jjakob	-v /src:/dest is exactly the same as -mount type=bind,src=/src,dst=/dest
2021-06-24 08:02:32	jjakob	but yet their docs say the first is a host volume and the 2nd a bind mount
2021-06-24 08:02:52	jjakob	yet they are exactly the same and in underneath both are bind mounts
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2021-06-24 08:03:50	jjakob	and in one place they even mention deprecating -v
2021-06-24 08:04:05	jjakob	"Even though there is no plan to deprecate --volume, usage of --mount is recommended."
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2021-06-24 08:04:44	jjakob	when I learned docker there was only -v, --mount didn't exist
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2021-06-24 08:05:08	backleet	netstat -tunlep shows :::443 udp port mapped to docker-proxy, but nmap -p 443 localhost shows it's closed?
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2021-06-24 08:06:00	felco	lsof -i -n -P
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2021-06-24 08:06:29	jjakob	backleet: nmap defaults to tcp SYN scan
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2021-06-24 08:07:24	backleet	felco: looks like the mapping is IPV6
2021-06-24 08:07:31	backleet	jjakob: thanks let me see
2021-06-24 08:07:33	jjakob	you probably want nmap -Pn -sU -p 443
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2021-06-24 08:07:58	jjakob	sometimes ipv6 binds to ipv4 too
2021-06-24 08:08:06	jjakob	depends on some sysctl settings
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2021-06-24 08:09:37	backleet	jjakob: felco I want to setup https://github.com/kylemanna/docker-openvpn on new vps, I followed the steps, docker container is running, I created the config to connect on 443 since defeault 1194 is blocked, but when I try to connect from client it says econnect refused
2021-06-24 08:09:50	jjakob	also "localhost" will usually resolve to ipv6, specify 127.0.0.1 or ::1 expliccitly if you want either
2021-06-24 08:09:53	backleet	can you guide me? looks like 443 is refusing?
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2021-06-24 08:10:33	jjakob	udp is hard to scan because it's not really a protocol but application dependend
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2021-06-24 08:10:44	felco	maybe the port is being filtered
2021-06-24 08:11:05	felco	yeah... i would use TCP instead
2021-06-24 08:11:11	jjakob	well, 443 udp, what would that even be? openvpn?
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2021-06-24 08:11:46	felco	you will not suffer a lot of latency on TCP
2021-06-24 08:11:51	jjakob	what do you want to do even? check if the service works?
2021-06-24 08:11:56	felco	it is pretty good
2021-06-24 08:12:13	jjakob	felco: why not use udp if you can, the overhead is less
2021-06-24 08:12:18	backleet	jjakob: felco want to use vpn, nmap -sU -p 443 localhost, shows 443/udp open/filtered https
2021-06-24 08:12:20	felco	yeah sure
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2021-06-24 08:12:23	felco	that is true
2021-06-24 08:12:44	treefrob	"setup" is a noun. "set up" is the verb
2021-06-24 08:12:54	backleet	treefrob: thanks
2021-06-24 08:12:58	felco	thats not wrong, maybe check the tcpdump port 443 and openvpn logs
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2021-06-24 08:13:09	felco	see if the client gets to the 443 port at all
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2021-06-24 08:13:49	autopsy	Thats at a higher level than we're used to .
2021-06-24 08:13:56	backleet	felco: thanks will do
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2021-06-24 08:14:52	felco	your conn in the client, may filter udp/443 because that traffic isnt expected...
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2021-06-24 08:15:32	backleet	felco: I will try tcp
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2021-06-24 08:18:00	jjakob	nmap probably says filtered because it doesn't get any response
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2021-06-24 08:18:21	jjakob	which is expected because the program listening expects a valid packet that it can respond to
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2021-06-24 08:18:37	jjakob	this is udp, not tcp, so scanning is a lot harder
2021-06-24 08:19:04	jjakob	if you get a icmp port unreachable you can be sure it's closed but no response can mean anything
2021-06-24 08:19:32	backleet	jjakob: felco tcp went through I think, but there's DPI on my ISP for openvpn, will have to try tls-crypt-v2
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2021-06-24 08:19:40	jjakob	which is why I asked what you're trying to do because port scanning udp with nmap, for a service on localhost, is probably not what you want
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2021-06-24 08:20:18	jjakob	so it's not on localhost? if you're going through a dpi firewall obviously it's remote
2021-06-24 08:20:26	backleet	this network stuff is really interesting and hard.
2021-06-24 08:20:35	backleet	jjakob: yeah I was running nmap localhost on ssh
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2021-06-24 08:20:51	backleet	jjakob: I am trying to setup openvpn docker instance on remote vps and use it as vpn
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2021-06-24 08:21:16	jjakob	right, that's clearer
2021-06-24 08:21:44	jjakob	do a tcpdump on the vps and see if anything even comes in
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2021-06-24 08:22:52	jjakob	tcpdump -n -vvv udp port 443
2021-06-24 08:23:21	backleet	jjakob: I switched my config to tcp, will check a bit later on udp, what exactly should I look for in logs of tcpdump?
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2021-06-24 08:23:39	backleet	if there are any connection attempts?
2021-06-24 08:23:46	jjakob	then try tcpdump -n -vvv tcp port 443 (on the vps)
2021-06-24 08:24:17	jjakob	yes, it will list packets it captures, so if you see packets coming in you're sure that the vps provider isn't filtering them
2021-06-24 08:24:37	jjakob	if nothing comes in they're either firewalling them or you're not connecting properly
2021-06-24 08:24:42	felco	or the client's isp
2021-06-24 08:24:55	jjakob	also add -i <your vps net interface>
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2021-06-24 08:25:07	felco	in experience udp gets filtered more than tcp
2021-06-24 08:25:28	backleet	jjakob: yes tcp packets incoming when I try to connect from client
2021-06-24 08:25:34	jjakob	depends on your isp, but I would test that instead of just guessing
2021-06-24 08:25:38	backleet	will check the same for udp, thanks!
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2021-06-24 08:26:05	backleet	jjakob: packets income on tcp, but I guess they break connection midway or something (ISP)
2021-06-24 08:26:22	jjakob	nah, it's a problem in docker probably
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2021-06-24 08:26:50	backleet	I will take a look thanks!
2021-06-24 08:26:51	jjakob	docker does NAT so I doubt your openvpn server in a docker container is going to work
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2021-06-24 08:27:09	felco	it works
2021-06-24 08:27:13	felco	i use like that
2021-06-24 08:27:20	backleet	it's a popular docker openvpn image, so I guess it should work
2021-06-24 08:27:22	backleet	brb
2021-06-24 08:27:36	jjakob	well okay, probably, but it's less than ideal
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2021-06-24 08:28:53	backleet	felco: do you use the same image?
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2021-06-24 08:28:58	jjakob	now you can run that same tcpdump inside the docker container and see if the packets come through the docker networking and into the container
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2021-06-24 08:29:15	backleet	jjakob: what would be ideal, native install to OS?
2021-06-24 08:29:18	felco	backleet no... i managed to do it myself
2021-06-24 08:29:27	backleet	felco: nice
2021-06-24 08:29:29	jjakob	backleet: yes
2021-06-24 08:29:53	jjakob	there's little benefit to containerising openvpn
2021-06-24 08:30:35	jjakob	or any vpn server, really
2021-06-24 08:30:42	felco	most of the time I get the openvpn package and the easyrsa, and install it on the bare metal
2021-06-24 08:30:55	felco	it is way easier
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2021-06-24 08:31:36	backleet	will try bare metal install
2021-06-24 08:31:52	jjakob	since you can easily filter network traffic with nftables on the host itself and other benefits of containers (process isolation, disk isolation) aren't really needed
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2021-06-24 08:32:16	felco	also, you want do that to check if the conn is good, then after you may move that to another place
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2021-06-24 08:32:39	jjakob	yeah, personally I'd go on the host directly too
2021-06-24 08:32:58	jjakob	it's not really bare metal, you still have the host kernel :)
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2021-06-24 08:33:05	felco	yeah haha
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2021-06-24 08:33:12	jjakob	and nftables
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2021-06-24 08:38:04	schillingklaus	i could not bother with volumes, anyways
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2021-06-24 08:40:18	jjakob	well, there's no way around them usually
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2021-06-24 08:44:15	backleet	felco: jjakob I just used openvpn install script, it worked without problem
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2021-06-24 08:45:18	backleet	thanks guys!
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2021-06-24 08:45:40	jjakob	no problem
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2021-06-24 08:48:50	backleet	jjakob: there was a case where openvpn tls-crypt-v1 was not able to connect to server, however tls-crypt-v2 was able to bypass firewall of ISP, is there some kind of openvpn identification data in tls-crypt-v1?
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2021-06-24 08:53:53	very_sneaky	does anybody know how the default route is constructed? I'm getting an empty string for `ip route` - not sure what i need to modify so that this is automatically identified
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2021-06-24 08:54:29	backleet_	jjakob: did I miss anything, I got disconnected. I've been waiting so long for this, got VPS, gonna get some irc bouncer on it
2021-06-24 08:54:38	paulcarroty	hey, how to mask dbus service?
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2021-06-24 08:55:17	SkunkyLaptop	very_sneaky: route add default gw w.x.y.z where w.x.y.z is your router/outbound route to the world?
2021-06-24 08:55:18	jjakob	backleet_: no idea, sorry, I have no problems with ISPs here
2021-06-24 08:55:20	paulcarroty	`/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.gnome.Software.service` for example
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2021-06-24 08:55:33	backleet_	jjakob: got it thanks
2021-06-24 08:55:35	jjakob	I just run it on udp/1194 and it always worked
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2021-06-24 08:55:50	backleet_	jjakob: yeah I'm from an interesting country to say the least
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2021-06-24 08:57:04	jjakob	I just know that it's good to have tls keys and always used the newest available tls key method
2021-06-24 08:57:07	very_sneaky	SkunkyLaptop: yeah, i realise i can do that - I guess my confusion is that I have another debian vm that i literally set up identically, minutes earlier, that is automatically identifying the route and renewing it's dhcp leases correctly. This vm seems to renew it when i manually force it, but otherwise it disconnects - i'm assuming because it doesn't know about the route. I guess i'm wondering how
2021-06-24 08:57:09	very_sneaky	a route is automatically discovered - would this be the job of my hypervisor or is there likely to be something buried in a configuration file somewhere?
2021-06-24 08:57:09	ananke	very_sneaky: how are you getting your IP settings? DHCP?
2021-06-24 08:57:16	peetaur	very_sneaky: default route is something the administrator set, or comes from DHCP
2021-06-24 08:57:21	very_sneaky	ananke: dhcp
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2021-06-24 08:57:35	ananke	very_sneaky: DHCP should be providing the default gw. you can look at the leases
2021-06-24 08:57:40	BluesKaj	Hi all
2021-06-24 08:57:43	SkunkyLaptop	very_sneaky: no, the default route should be coming from the dhcp server
2021-06-24 08:57:44	very_sneaky	huh. maybe this is just a symptom then, and not the cause of my problems
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2021-06-24 08:58:14	ananke	very_sneaky: but if it's 'disconnecting', then perhaps the actual network interface is going down
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2021-06-24 08:58:25	jjakob	--tls-crypt keyfile   • makes it harder to identify OpenVPN traffic as such,
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2021-06-24 08:58:33	SkunkyLaptop	very_sneaky: dhcp client broadcasts on the network with it's MAC and says "hi, this is my mac, can I have an IP please" and the dhcp server answers back "here ya go, you can be this, and here's a subnet mask and a default route, too."
2021-06-24 08:58:43	jjakob	backleet_:
2021-06-24 08:58:45	very_sneaky	ananke: the interface shows `UP`, but it didn't renew the lease :\
2021-06-24 08:58:47	ananke	very_sneaky: journalctl -f as root, look if there are any events
2021-06-24 08:59:15	backleet_	jjakob: tls-crypt-v2 came out recently iirc
2021-06-24 08:59:32	jjakob	yeah I see, didn't even know about it
2021-06-24 08:59:49	jjakob	but that's only client specific keys, or is it something else new too
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2021-06-24 09:00:29	very_sneaky	ananke: doesn't go back very far - 15 minutes. are these logged to file?
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2021-06-24 09:01:00	jjakob	a binary journal, sometimes to traditional messages or syslog files too
2021-06-24 09:01:09	schillingklaus	journalctl only works for systemd worshippers.
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2021-06-24 09:01:28	jjakob	you can increase binary log retention in journal.conf
2021-06-24 09:01:44	backleet_	jjakob: I am not sure, I think it goes both ways
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2021-06-24 09:01:59	jjakob	-f is probably cutting the start off, try with -e and page up
2021-06-24 09:02:02	node1	I'm running openvpn using systemd( on booting system) it will start running. The problem is i need to manually restart everytime if there network disconnection(due to power cut or connecting with different  wifi)
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2021-06-24 09:02:25	jjakob	node1: ping and ping-restart
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2021-06-24 09:02:34	jjakob	read the man page on those 2
2021-06-24 09:02:53	backleet_	node1: if you use it through networkmanager it would handle things like that if you want to save the headache
2021-06-24 09:02:57	node1	jjakob, But i would like to make it automat the restart process
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2021-06-24 09:03:10	jjakob	ping-restart will automate the restart process
2021-06-24 09:03:18	jjakob	from within the openvpn process itself
2021-06-24 09:03:20	node1	jjakob, okay
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2021-06-24 09:04:00	jjakob	I don't like NetworkManager. except on laptops it's fine, I guess.
2021-06-24 09:04:12	very_sneaky	jjakob: cheers, that helped. nothing suspicious in the log. just a bunch of cron, sudo and su events
2021-06-24 09:04:23	schillingklaus	I stick to ifconfig and route
2021-06-24 09:04:42	paulcarroty	good luck to connect to wpa3 & vpn with cli
2021-06-24 09:04:53	node1	?
2021-06-24 09:05:02	jjakob	schillingklaus: ifupdown is fine for me too
2021-06-24 09:05:23	jjakob	paulcarroty: wpa_supplicant and whatever vpn client you need?
2021-06-24 09:05:34	<--	diogenese (~diogenese@diogenese.velotech.net) has quit (Quit: Has anybody seen the bridge?)
2021-06-24 09:05:45	very_sneaky	can anybody think of reasons why my dhcp client wouldn't be trying to renew its leases?
2021-06-24 09:05:52	jjakob	anyway I wouldn't like to manage a wifi interface through cli so I understand the utility of a gui manager there
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2021-06-24 09:06:02	paulcarroty	and 1km long command to setup the route?
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2021-06-24 09:06:28	jjakob	your vpn client should setup routes for you
2021-06-24 09:06:38	jjakob	and dhcp should as well
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2021-06-24 09:06:55	jjakob	or stick them in /etc/network/interfaces if static
2021-06-24 09:07:21	jjakob	very_sneaky: when it first gets the lease what does it say the lease time is?
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2021-06-24 09:07:31	jjakob	can you access the router management?
2021-06-24 09:07:46	paulcarroty	heh, seems like I can't prevent shitty gnome-software to run permanently
2021-06-24 09:08:01	paulcarroty	without touching /usr/ every time
2021-06-24 09:08:05	schillingklaus	uninstall everything gnome-related
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2021-06-24 09:08:51	very_sneaky	jjakob: yeah i have access tot he router management. Router says no active lease
2021-06-24 09:08:55	jjakob	uninstall whatever pulls in gnome-software, mark everything else as manual
2021-06-24 09:09:01	paulcarroty	it's not only gnome-related, guess similar cases in future
2021-06-24 09:09:10	jjakob	very_sneaky: and what is lease time configured to on the router?
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2021-06-24 09:09:44	jjakob	and what does dhclient say about it in logs when it gets the lease?
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2021-06-24 09:10:06	very_sneaky	jjakob: mm, can't see anything in the router config, but based on `/var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.leases`, 7200 s
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2021-06-24 09:10:19	paulcarroty	LOL, I can
2021-06-24 09:10:25	schillingklaus	gnome and systemd are by the same maffia, after all
2021-06-24 09:10:51	paulcarroty	this is not systemd, mr. Hater
2021-06-24 09:11:03	jjakob	very_sneaky: is there a process running? ps afx|grep dhclient
2021-06-24 09:11:14	akik	systemd is now an integral part of gnu+linux systems
2021-06-24 09:11:29	paulcarroty	seems like dbus service in `~/.local/share/dbus-1/services` can overwrite `/usr`
2021-06-24 09:11:30	jjakob	only the mainstream ones
2021-06-24 09:11:33	very_sneaky	jjakob: default lease time from the router is 7200s
2021-06-24 09:11:36	paulcarroty	need to try it
2021-06-24 09:12:06	jjakob	I mean, I can see how gnome desktop is good for regular people
2021-06-24 09:12:12	jjakob	I'm just not a regular person
2021-06-24 09:12:28	-->	backleet_ (~backleet@user/backleet) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 09:12:28	akik	they could make it good for everybody
2021-06-24 09:12:28	paulcarroty	elite #linux bois can't fell the difference between systemd & dbus
2021-06-24 09:12:34	node1	how to and where to use this ping-restart ?
2021-06-24 09:12:40	jjakob	so good on them on making a desktop usable by normal people
2021-06-24 09:12:41	very_sneaky	jjakob: yeah, there is. `/sbin/dhclient -4 -v -i -pf /run/dhclient.enp0s4.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.enp0s4.leases -I -df /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient6.enp0s4.leases enp0s4`
2021-06-24 09:12:59	akik	about dbus, how do i disable those services?
2021-06-24 09:13:01	jjakob	node1: add it in your client conf
2021-06-24 09:13:08	node1	okay
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2021-06-24 09:13:18	paulcarroty	akik ^
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2021-06-24 09:13:34	jjakob	node1: you also usually need to make sure the server's ping is less than the client's ping-restart
2021-06-24 09:13:39	 *	akik looks but doesn't see
2021-06-24 09:13:43	very_sneaky	the times associated with the leases are really weird though - they're timestamped tomorrow, even though the vm is in my local time
2021-06-24 09:13:44	jjakob	can you alter the server conf?
2021-06-24 09:13:52	very_sneaky	jjakob: yeah i can. i'm running pfsense
2021-06-24 09:14:03	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-24 09:14:05	jjakob	that was meant for node1
2021-06-24 09:14:08	node1	jjakob, I have no control on server side
2021-06-24 09:14:15	very_sneaky	ah, np
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2021-06-24 09:14:41	jjakob	okay, so it would be nice to know how often the server sends pings, because you can't lower ping-restart below that
2021-06-24 09:14:53	paulcarroty	akik, create service_name /dev/null link in  ~/.local/share/dbus-1/services`
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2021-06-24 09:15:19	schillingklaus	systemd is only part of antilinuxish systems
2021-06-24 09:15:26	-->	Lope2 (~lope@102.132.208.180) has joined #linux
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2021-06-24 09:15:29	paulcarroty	then check it in `busctl`
2021-06-24 09:15:35	Lope2	is this IRC network broken?
2021-06-24 09:15:37	akik	paulcarroty: wow that's useful info. thanks
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2021-06-24 09:16:06	jjakob	it's usually better to just start with a blank slate (e.g. install gentoo)
2021-06-24 09:16:23	jjakob	or use devuan or artix or something already systemdless
2021-06-24 09:16:37	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 09:17:16	jjakob	if you use xorg, nowadays you probably need dbus and a login manager (elogind)
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2021-06-24 09:18:02	jjakob	very_sneaky: that's weird
2021-06-24 09:18:05	schillingklaus	no, I do not need a login manager for xorg
2021-06-24 09:18:09	HumbleGuy	why do i get this warning everytime i close a text editor ran with doas? Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
2021-06-24 09:18:20	jjakob	timezone issues? time not synced?
2021-06-24 09:18:30	paulcarroty	or use devuan or artix and wait 10 years when someone will fix your issue or even get answer on forum
2021-06-24 09:18:44	HumbleGuy	also i added persist flag to /etc/doas.conf to remember the password but it just wont remember
2021-06-24 09:19:07	ananke	HumbleGuy: doas on linux?
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2021-06-24 09:19:09	very_sneaky	jjakob: what's the service that manages `/etc/network/interfaces`? `networking`?
2021-06-24 09:19:09	jjakob	schillingklaus: it's required to run X as non-root. unless you want to suid X and run the server as root.
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2021-06-24 09:19:13	HumbleGuy	yeah
2021-06-24 09:19:23	jjakob	depends on the distro
2021-06-24 09:19:30	very_sneaky	debian
2021-06-24 09:19:32	jjakob	the package is ifupdown
2021-06-24 09:19:40	schillingklaus	yes, I suid xorg
2021-06-24 09:19:58	ananke	HumbleGuy: anyway, it's because said variable is not passed to the target env
2021-06-24 09:20:13	jjakob	I'd rather have elogind+dbus and run it as non-root.
2021-06-24 09:20:57	HumbleGuy	i don't get it, i put the flag persist in package.use but when i emerge -pv it says the flag is not there  USE="pam (-persist)" 0 KiB
2021-06-24 09:21:02	jjakob	usually I don't even touch any service but just do "ifdown eth0; ifup eth0"
2021-06-24 09:21:09	very_sneaky	hmm, okay. These are running in a bhyve vm. I know that by detaching a logical cdrom, bhyve switches the default interface labels around so i had to modify this manually to use the right interface - `ednp0s4` instead of `ednp0s5`. I've rebooted since doing that, so i'm assuming that that has no impact on this
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2021-06-24 09:21:38	jjakob	HumbleGuy: what does your package.use line look like
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2021-06-24 09:22:18	HumbleGuy	jjakob, app-admin/doas persist
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2021-06-24 09:24:07	jjakob	HumbleGuy: looks good
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2021-06-24 09:24:53	jjakob	maybe something else is forcing it disabled
2021-06-24 09:25:09	jjakob	very_sneaky: no idea, that shouldn be a problem
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2021-06-24 09:27:49	jjakob	very_sneaky: you can try tcpdump -i ednp0s4 -n -vvv port 67 or port 68
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2021-06-24 09:28:04	jjakob	and see if it sends anything
2021-06-24 09:28:24	jjakob	but you'd probably need to have it running at the time it wants to renew
2021-06-24 09:28:49	very_sneaky	jjakob: yeah, isn't the dhcp renewal algorithm doubling or something?
2021-06-24 09:29:08	<--	node1 (~node1@user/node1) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-24 09:29:11	very_sneaky	lots of requests early on and then progressively larger interval
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2021-06-24 09:29:25	jjakob	it starts renewing before it expires bt when exactly isnt exactly defined
2021-06-24 09:29:34	jjakob	yeah there is a backoff
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2021-06-24 09:29:43	very_sneaky	i thought it was at 50% lease
2021-06-24 09:29:51	jjakob	sounds about right
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2021-06-24 09:30:13	jjakob	you can read isc-dhcp client docs and also the dhcp RFCs
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2021-06-24 09:30:36	jjakob	I did but promptly forgot after I fixed what needed to be fixed
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2021-06-24 09:30:54	very_sneaky	yeah i looked at them a year or so ago, it wasn't that useful knowledge :P
2021-06-24 09:31:02	very_sneaky	i mean i guess it's helping inform this
2021-06-24 09:31:10	jjakob	my issue was with dhcpv6 not renewing and I needed to add set-tee-times on the server
2021-06-24 09:31:23	very_sneaky	before i go down the packet capture route - are there any other configuration files/logs that you can think of that might help diagnose this?
2021-06-24 09:31:38	-->	sozuba (sozuba@user/sozuba) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 09:31:40	jjakob	packet capture is the first thing I do when diagnosing dhcp
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2021-06-24 09:31:59	jelly	very_sneaky, if your VM only has a single ethernet iface and you get annoyed by changes in "predictable interface names" enp*, you can get back to "eth0", add net.ifnames=0 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub then run update-grub and reboot
2021-06-24 09:32:16	<--	fef (~thedawn@user/thedawn) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-24 09:32:17	jjakob	other than look at obvious things, the lease file, ip a, logs
2021-06-24 09:32:38	very_sneaky	jelly: good to know, cheers.
2021-06-24 09:32:51	jelly	turns out the "predictable" names sometimes are worse than the problem they tried to solve
2021-06-24 09:32:55	jjakob	I don't think interface names are the issue
2021-06-24 09:33:07	hodapp	hey, at least it's not devfs
2021-06-24 09:33:15	jjakob	why? they're not different than regular names
2021-06-24 09:33:26	jelly	they're unpredictable
2021-06-24 09:33:30	very_sneaky	to clarify, do the entries in `etc/networks/interfaces` define what shows up in `ip a`?
2021-06-24 09:33:48	node1_	I have added ping-restart 45 in something.conf but no luck.
2021-06-24 09:33:49	jjakob	jelly: only the 1st time
2021-06-24 09:34:11	jelly	jjakob, and every time they change after that.
2021-06-24 09:34:18	<--	bewees (~quassel@user/bewees) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-24 09:34:21	jjakob	very_sneaky: no, ip a only shows what exists
2021-06-24 09:34:23	jelly	jjakob, and they do change, for various reasons
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2021-06-24 09:34:34	jjakob	jelly: only if the hardware changes
2021-06-24 09:34:38	jjakob	and that's normal
2021-06-24 09:34:56	very_sneaky	gotcha
2021-06-24 09:35:35	very_sneaky	another relevant tidbit, i have a static mapping for the vm's mac address in the router so it always issues it with the same IP
2021-06-24 09:35:36	HumbleGuy	any idea why i get this Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key warning when running vim with doas?
2021-06-24 09:35:38	jelly	jjakob, no. normal is letting one interface keep the same name forever and not jump around just because pci enumeration changed a bit
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2021-06-24 09:35:59	very_sneaky	i don't think that would impact it though - it still should be requesting it by dhcp
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2021-06-24 09:36:20	jjakob	jelly: there are different modes, pci is just one of them
2021-06-24 09:36:25	jjakob	you can switch
2021-06-24 09:36:46	jjakob	very_sneaky: tcpdump would show any server side issues
2021-06-24 09:36:57	schillingklaus	a combination of ck2 and seatd can replace seatd in some cases
2021-06-24 09:37:01	jjakob	if it sends wrong lease time or anything like that
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2021-06-24 09:37:17	jelly	jjakob, in my experience it's a lot easier to get actually predictable behaviour in VMs by disabling this functionality
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2021-06-24 09:37:59	jjakob	jelly: right, which hypervisor
2021-06-24 09:38:12	jelly	I'm not asking for help with this.
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2021-06-24 09:38:16	jelly	(esxi)
2021-06-24 09:38:39	jjakob	using virtio in kvm doesn't have this problem
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2021-06-24 09:38:46	 *	jelly shrugs
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2021-06-24 09:39:07	jjakob	if your hypervisor desiced to change which slot it connects the nic to then that's a hypervisor problem imo
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2021-06-24 09:39:12	very_sneaky	interesting, i just restarted the networking service and the interface went down
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2021-06-24 09:39:42	jelly	jjakob, shifting blame onto other components is not a good sign
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2021-06-24 09:39:58	paulcarroty	akik: forget it, doesn't working
2021-06-24 09:40:13	jelly	this worked before, PNI broke it, I disable PNI and things work again.  Very simple.
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2021-06-24 09:40:56	jjakob	that's the stupidest argument I've ever heard
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2021-06-24 09:41:24	jjakob	you're right but missing context
2021-06-24 09:41:24	jelly	very_sneaky, what does your /e/n/interfaces actually look like?
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2021-06-24 09:43:07	very_sneaky	jelly: https://bpa.st/NVWQ
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2021-06-24 09:45:43	very_sneaky	okay, so restarting ifup@enp0s4.service issued me a new ip - i guess that's to be expected
2021-06-24 09:45:45	jelly	very_sneaky, if your interface is always present, a simple thing to make networking service behave slightly more sane is replace "allow-hotplug enp0s4" with "auto enp0s4"
2021-06-24 09:45:50	mrvdv	whats the command to make users not be able to access each others /home dir
2021-06-24 09:46:23	very_sneaky	jelly: okay cool i'll give it a go when the interface goes down again
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2021-06-24 09:46:54	jelly	I suggest a reboot to clean up any existing state and possible leftover dhclients
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2021-06-24 09:47:23	jjakob	very_sneaky: did you have tcpdump running while you did that?
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2021-06-24 09:47:46	very_sneaky	jjakob: nah i didn't - what extra do you think that would have given?
2021-06-24 09:47:53	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 09:48:01	jjakob	a lot
2021-06-24 09:48:06	jjakob	missed opportunity
2021-06-24 09:48:10	jelly	jjakob, it's a pattern I've seen before with various developers; they break things by not testing sufficiently and then blame other components in the environment
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2021-06-24 09:49:04	jjakob	to be honest, interface naming has been broken in the kernel since the beginning and they just replaced one workaround with another
2021-06-24 09:49:17	jelly	I'm a pragmatic sysadmin, and will rather revert to deprecated methods if they prove more reliable than the latest thing
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2021-06-24 09:49:23	jjakob	can you blame them that one workaround works slightly differently in one specific environment? no
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2021-06-24 09:49:53	jjakob	do you remember /etc/udev/rules.d/70-networking.rules (or sth like that)?
2021-06-24 09:49:54	jelly	jjakob, yes if they said "this will solve your issues"
2021-06-24 09:49:59	very_sneaky	jjakob: yeah? I was thinking it would just show the renewal request and the query response, which i was confident it would do anyway since the challenge hasn't been manually forcing a renewal
2021-06-24 09:50:04	w0x12ef	how to ls all subdir
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2021-06-24 09:50:30	jjakob	very_sneaky: with -vvv it would show a *lot* of data you normally never see
2021-06-24 09:50:34	jelly	jjakob, I'd rather go back to 70-persistent-net.rules -- it works predictably and fails predictably
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2021-06-24 09:50:47	very_sneaky	mrvdv: use chmod wiht the appropriate access modifier - probably 750
2021-06-24 09:51:00	akik	paulcarroty: damn :)
2021-06-24 09:51:01	very_sneaky	jjakob: hmm, okay well i'll make sure i do it next time renewal fails
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2021-06-24 09:51:29	jjakob	jelly: everyone has his taste I guess
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2021-06-24 09:52:03	jelly	yes.  I have the taste for things that actually work.
2021-06-24 09:52:12	jjakob	persistent naming works fine on physical hardware and kvm
2021-06-24 09:52:21	jelly	yeah no.
2021-06-24 09:52:24	jjakob	only in your specific case it doesn't
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2021-06-24 09:52:35	jjakob	jelly: no? okay, please explain
2021-06-24 09:53:01	jelly	jjakob, there's hardware that changes PCI midplane around with configuration
2021-06-24 09:53:09	very_sneaky	does anybody know where the logs for ifup@interface.service would be? a google indicates /var/log/messages but theres nothing there - not even what i can see in `systemctl status ifup@interface`
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2021-06-24 09:53:23	jjakob	very_sneaky: it's not a service
2021-06-24 09:53:31	jjakob	it's a oneshot
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2021-06-24 09:53:37	jjakob	probably
2021-06-24 09:53:47	jjakob	since it just calls ifup
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2021-06-24 09:53:52	jjakob	and that exits once it's done
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2021-06-24 09:54:00	jelly	jjakob, my case is not specific.  Developers just didn't account for lots of cases, and try to pretend each thing they forgot is a "specific use case", and that gets on my nerves
2021-06-24 09:54:06	jjakob	so there are no logs for it once it finishes starting
2021-06-24 09:54:11	very_sneaky	ah
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2021-06-24 09:54:41	jjakob	you can just forget about systemd here and use ifup and ifdown directly
2021-06-24 09:54:49	jelly	"we don't make design mistakes, it's you and your env" is honesly arrogant
2021-06-24 09:54:51	jjakob	since systemd is just a wrapper for those 2
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2021-06-24 09:55:28	jjakob	jelly: that's true, it was probably not sufficiently tested and that attitude isn't good
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2021-06-24 09:56:03	jjakob	but the concept isn't bad and even the implementation works generally
2021-06-24 09:56:15	jjakob	if it doesn't you can switch from pci-based to other methods
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2021-06-24 09:56:25	jjakob	and still have PNI
2021-06-24 09:56:29	jelly	or not use it.
2021-06-24 09:56:44	jelly	because it doesn't work as generally as people think
2021-06-24 09:56:47	jjakob	if you only have 1 interface, yes
2021-06-24 09:57:02	jjakob	if you have more than 1 you *need* something
2021-06-24 09:57:30	jjakob	the old udev rules were already a PNI method
2021-06-24 09:57:32	jelly	yes. MAC : iface mapping is that something
2021-06-24 09:57:45	jjakob	yes that's a PNI system
2021-06-24 09:58:11	jjakob	but that's added by the OS to the kernel and was never part of the kernel
2021-06-24 09:58:11	jelly	no, that's literally a way to work around for lack of PNI
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2021-06-24 09:58:45	jjakob	jelly: if you want to say the kernel should do PNI by itself? probably
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2021-06-24 09:58:58	very_sneaky	ugh. i can't make sense of the leases either. the times don't match up to anything sensible
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2021-06-24 09:59:06	jelly	jjakob, so many design decisions in systemd are driven by avoiding to have to write anything to /etc
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2021-06-24 09:59:30	jjakob	how does location matter?
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2021-06-24 09:59:48	jjakob	they could put udev rules in /lib/udev/rules.d
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2021-06-24 10:00:30	jelly	jjakob, writing user files to /lib breaks FHS/FSSTND assumptions
2021-06-24 10:00:30	very_sneaky	does anybody have any idea how these date times align? the dhcp rpc indicates this should be UTC, but i'm getting times both ahead and behind UTC - and don't match my local tz at all https://bpa.st/X77Q
2021-06-24 10:00:50	<--	ratelius (ratelius@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/ratelius) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-24 10:00:58	very_sneaky	also, any ideas about why a lease would have renew/rebind/expire times that are all the same?
2021-06-24 10:01:11	jjakob	jelly: fine, then /usr/lib, who cares
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2021-06-24 10:01:15	jelly	jjakob, and someone in RH is really pushing for a constant root fs image, therefore, no local changes to /etc
2021-06-24 10:01:17	jjakob	it's not important in this discussion
2021-06-24 10:01:25	CodeSpelunker	very_sneaky: do you dual boot with windows? I've had that mess up my times in the past
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2021-06-24 10:01:39	very_sneaky	CodeSpelunker: no, this is in a vm on a freebsd host
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2021-06-24 10:01:42	jjakob	yeah whatever that makes literally no difference in this discussion
2021-06-24 10:02:04	jjakob	but that would be cool tbh
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2021-06-24 10:02:21	jelly	jjakob, but it does, we'd still have an OS just setting up MAC:iface in /etc/udev/rules.d/ and be done with it
2021-06-24 10:03:00	jjakob	jelly: that's a PNI method too. systemd has its own method. other OSs have their own different methods too.
2021-06-24 10:03:20	jjakob	each has its advantages and disadvantages
2021-06-24 10:03:43	jjakob	I'm not defending systemd, I don't use it
2021-06-24 10:03:45	jelly	but no, they literally invented a different halfassed method just to avoid writing to /etc; this is also why nss_myhostname exists, and one or two other things
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2021-06-24 10:04:42	jjakob	very_sneaky: dhclient will leave old leases in there sometimes
2021-06-24 10:04:49	jjakob	and the times are probably utc
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2021-06-24 10:05:14	very_sneaky	jjakob: so your interpretation is that the bottom lease is the most current?
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2021-06-24 10:05:52	very_sneaky	if i just clear out all files in `/var/lib/dhcp` - i can recreate from scratch by just restarting my interface right?
2021-06-24 10:06:01	jelly	the bottom use seems current, and the top one seems expired IF the times are UTC
2021-06-24 10:06:06	jjakob	very_sneaky: the bottom lease looks like it's from 20 mins ago in utc
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2021-06-24 10:06:26	jjakob	the top one is the old one and just there cause it hasnt been purged yey
2021-06-24 10:06:31	jjakob	yet
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2021-06-24 10:06:39	very_sneaky	jjakob: to clarify - you're reading the top leases times as the time the renewal happened, resulting in the bottom lease?
2021-06-24 10:06:52	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 10:07:06	jjakob	renew is the time the renewal or initial acquiry happened
2021-06-24 10:07:08	byte4byte	where jim at
2021-06-24 10:07:20	jelly	very_sneaky, do you have access to the dhcp server logs or state maybe?
2021-06-24 10:07:23	jjakob	rebind is the time it'll rebind at
2021-06-24 10:07:46	very_sneaky	jelly: ooh, i do actually
2021-06-24 10:07:49	jjakob	expire is when it'll expire
2021-06-24 10:08:00	jjakob	very_sneaky: are you running tcpdump?
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2021-06-24 10:08:13	very_sneaky	jjakob: right, just clarifying that the times are _scheduled_ times? given that all three times in the first lease are the same, and ~20 mins ago in UTC
2021-06-24 10:08:19	jjakob	reminder that it's a waste of time not running tcpdump at this point
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2021-06-24 10:08:42	very_sneaky	jjakob: i'm concerned about storage - i only have 20GB allocated to the vm disk, and i know tcp dump takes a lot of space
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2021-06-24 10:08:59	jjakob	I didn't tell you to save it to disk
2021-06-24 10:09:05	jjakob	you can if you want
2021-06-24 10:09:21	jjakob	and no, it will use less than 10M probably
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2021-06-24 10:09:31	jjakob	cause you filter just ports 67/68
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2021-06-24 10:10:18	jjakob	if you leave it running all day it could maybe come close to double digit megabytes but probably not
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2021-06-24 10:11:17	jjakob	very_sneaky: "renew" is the time it acquired the lease or rebinded it, "rebind" and "expire" are future times it has set when it'll do either of those
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2021-06-24 10:12:28	very_sneaky	jjakob: alright i've got tcpdump running in a different tmux session
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2021-06-24 10:13:08	jjakob	tcpdump -i ednp0s4 -n -vvv -l port 67 or port 68 | tee -a tcpdump.out
2021-06-24 10:13:23	very_sneaky	jjakob: well, that's weird, current UTC time is 14:13, the renew time on the bottom lease is 14:44?
2021-06-24 10:13:30	jjakob	don't forget the -l if you pipe it
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2021-06-24 10:16:15	jjakob	very_sneaky: I was wrong, https://kb.isc.org/docs/en/isc-dhcp-44-manual-pages-dhclientconf#lease-declarations
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2021-06-24 10:16:29	jjakob	renew is actially the time it'll start the renew process
2021-06-24 10:16:57	jjakob	I haven't read the docs actually, but the docs will tell you all this
2021-06-24 10:17:05	very_sneaky	yeah so, i can see in my dhcp logs on the server that the last DHCPREQUEST from this VM was at 09:17 UTC
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2021-06-24 10:17:38	jjakob	that's because renewals arent requests
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2021-06-24 10:18:30	jjakob	ah it is, just different than the initial request
2021-06-24 10:18:36	very_sneaky	yeah
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2021-06-24 10:19:04	jjakob	what's the router time?
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2021-06-24 10:19:38	very_sneaky	it's in my local time
2021-06-24 10:20:04	very_sneaky	14:19 UTC
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2021-06-24 10:20:06	backleet_	how much should 250ms ping affect ssh lag?
2021-06-24 10:20:16	very_sneaky	backleet_: about 250ms :P
2021-06-24 10:20:18	jjakob	about 250ms
2021-06-24 10:20:30	backleet_	very_sneaky: it's very laggy, I am not sure if it's the norm
2021-06-24 10:20:42	jjakob	there could also be dropped packets.
2021-06-24 10:21:00	very_sneaky	250ms could be normal depending on where you're sshing to
2021-06-24 10:21:19	very_sneaky	i've had up to 1800ms in games before :\ that wasn't pleasant
2021-06-24 10:21:24	backleet_	jjakob: how to test for dropped packets?
2021-06-24 10:21:35	peetaur	500ms ... round trip
2021-06-24 10:21:36	jjakob	very_sneaky: I'm defering further diagnosis to when I see the tcpdump, preferably after a failed renewal
2021-06-24 10:21:41	very_sneaky	tcpdump
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2021-06-24 10:22:03	Inline	can anyone tell me why packages for android would appear in the updates section but one cannot update them ?
2021-06-24 10:22:08	backleet_	it's not very pleasant at least I can say
2021-06-24 10:22:10	jjakob	I'd use a flood ping in that case
2021-06-24 10:22:30	jjakob	ping -f
2021-06-24 10:22:31	Inline	happens since 2 days or so
2021-06-24 10:22:42	jjakob	or cnpinc
2021-06-24 10:22:45	very_sneaky	jjakob: fair enough. The router logs seem to support my thesis that the dhclient isn't actually sending renewal requests, especially in conjunction with the fact that manual renewal consistently seems to work
2021-06-24 10:22:46	jjakob	* cnping
2021-06-24 10:22:53	peetaur	Inline: "cannot update" is a useless description for troubleshooting purposes... is the button greyed out? does it just say "error: success" or what?
2021-06-24 10:22:56	very_sneaky	but we'll find out in a few hours
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2021-06-24 10:23:07	peetaur	and also, this isn't #android so expect no helpful responses :)
2021-06-24 10:23:43	Inline	no the buttons are fine peetaur, when i press the green button to update i just see a symbol animation so it's like it's trying to update but really nothing happens
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2021-06-24 10:23:59	Inline	ok
2021-06-24 10:24:11	jjakob	https://github.com/cntools/cnping
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2021-06-24 10:25:19	very_sneaky	i think i need to stop virtualising with bhyve and move to proxmox
2021-06-24 10:25:30	very_sneaky	this isn't the first time i've had strange esoteric issues with debian vms
2021-06-24 10:25:41	backleet_	jjakob: just ping -f ip address of vps?
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2021-06-24 10:26:27	jjakob	backleet_: yes
2021-06-24 10:26:42	jjakob	also that may congest your network even more
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2021-06-24 10:27:11	jjakob	a small ping interval like -i 0.1 is a less intrusive method
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2021-06-24 10:27:31	jjakob	cnping is basically a great graphical flood ping tool
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2021-06-24 10:27:59	backleet_	jjakob: I forgot I am connected to vpn, 250ms is without vpn, with vpn it's 430ms, ping -f said cannot flood, minimal interval allowed for user is 200ms I will try -i 0.1
2021-06-24 10:28:14	peetaur	or use mtr ... it's the best ping+traceroute :)
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2021-06-24 10:29:22	jjakob	you need sudo for -f or -i less than 0.2
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2021-06-24 10:29:45	jjakob	backleet_: why does a vpn 2x your RTT?
2021-06-24 10:30:02	jjakob	is it like on the other side of the globe or something?
2021-06-24 10:30:15	backleet_	jjakob: vpn is in singapore, vps is in LA lol
2021-06-24 10:30:22	backleet_	and I am somewhere in middle
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2021-06-24 10:30:26	jjakob	you don't say
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2021-06-24 10:30:57	OneLegend	wanna hear a joke?
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2021-06-24 10:31:18	backleet_	lol
2021-06-24 10:31:24	jjakob	knock knock
2021-06-24 10:31:32	OneLegend	who's there
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2021-06-24 10:32:11	autopsy	Orange
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2021-06-24 10:32:18	OneLegend	Orange who
2021-06-24 10:32:23	jjakob	a joke
2021-06-24 10:32:28	autopsy	Orange yer pills sposed to help you with that?
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2021-06-24 10:32:59	OneLegend	proprietary password managers are a joke
2021-06-24 10:33:29	peetaur	proprietary anything where there are 1000 superior libre alternatives are jokes
2021-06-24 10:33:40	OneLegend	^^
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2021-06-24 10:58:22	very_sneaky	jjakob: well, there goes my theory - renewal was just issued.
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2021-06-24 11:23:14	wyre	hi guys is there some channel specialized in initrd?
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2021-06-24 11:24:22	jelly	wyre, just ask your question
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2021-06-24 11:25:06	wyre	well, the point is that I'm trying to mount the rootfs as fake-writable with overlayfs, I've done this script https://gist.github.com/jfernandz/bfb1285114c136ac2b86320cb06c3904#file-toggle-overlayfs based on raspi-config
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2021-06-24 11:25:31	wyre	and apparently works as expected, ... except because I'm having troubles with the available size
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2021-06-24 11:26:12	wyre	df -h says the overlayfs is only 3.8G large ... and I don't know why, because in the initrd script https://gist.github.com/jfernandz/bfb1285114c136ac2b86320cb06c3904#file-toggle-overlayfs-L42 is not being specified any size at all
2021-06-24 11:26:25	wyre	so I don't know where is defined the overlayfs size must be 3.8G
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2021-06-24 11:27:11	wyre	this apparently matches with raspberryPi RAM size ... but I don't know if this has something to do
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2021-06-24 11:28:05	wyre	because as I've understood ... tmpfs is basically writing to RAM ...
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2021-06-24 11:28:36	wyre	(actually the script mounts the upper layer of overlayfs as tmpfs)
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2021-06-24 11:32:37	wigums	i can count to potato
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2021-06-24 11:34:20	babyface	please tell me how to create a windows 10 installation usbstick (MBR) from withinin Linux
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2021-06-24 11:34:49	babyface	dd doesn't work
2021-06-24 11:34:58	wigums	i dont think you can
2021-06-24 11:35:04	Lartza	Requires a hybrid iso, not a normal one
2021-06-24 11:35:14	Lartza	WoeUSB should work if you don't want to create the stick manually
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2021-06-24 11:36:41	babyface	if I can make the usbstick bootable I should be able to copy the content from the ISO to the usbstick right?
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2021-06-24 11:37:14	Lartza	No
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2021-06-24 11:38:02	Lartza	Oh I remembered you'd have to make an ESP, maybe yes
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2021-06-24 11:38:24	babyface	EPS?
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2021-06-24 11:38:34	Lartza	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition
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2021-06-24 11:39:08	babyface	but I want to install Windows 10 on a BIOS PC
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2021-06-24 11:40:38	peetaur	I happen to know lots about that but have no idea what you're asking.
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2021-06-24 11:40:50	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
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2021-06-24 11:41:07	Lartza	Their question is: How do I get a bootable USB stick from a windows 10 ISO
2021-06-24 11:41:13	Lartza	in Linux
2021-06-24 11:41:27	Lartza	And apparently a non-UEFI system bootable too, so not sure if you can just copy the files like with UEFI
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2021-06-24 11:41:39	peetaur	a bios machine won't boot efi ....but you can make a thing boot both; and an efi machine likely has legacy support and will boot bios configs too (except bad ones..like if you have an ancient grub-legacy with GPT but no bios_grub, it won't boot on efi hardware in legacy mode even though it works on bios hardware)
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2021-06-24 11:42:00	Lartza	Yes but the issue is how do you get that iso bootable :P
2021-06-24 11:42:15	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
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2021-06-24 11:42:47	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@104.131.46.87] by lacroix
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2021-06-24 11:43:20	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
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2021-06-24 11:44:45	peetaur	boot up linux and put a windows 10 iso on a usb stick?     in which case you have little control of what it supports...you probably have to boot a windows tool that makes the type of image that is bootable on usb. And then write that using linux or windows or whatever.
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2021-06-24 11:51:33	blackgatonegro	Hello people
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2021-06-24 11:52:08	blackgatonegro	To celebrate Sonic 30 years Sonic Mania is currently free on the Epic Store.
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2021-06-24 11:52:59	lopid	i'll just open my linux epic client and get that…
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2021-06-24 11:54:29	akik	babyface: i have the guide for you to do that
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2021-06-24 11:55:28	akik	babyface: https://atkdinosaurus.wordpress.com/2016/07/20/how-to-create-a-bootable-windows-7-10-usb-stick-in-linux-mbr/ (be really careful with the device names as they probably won't match mine)
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2021-06-24 11:56:48	babyface	akik, did you write that guide? :)
2021-06-24 11:56:52	akik	babyface: yes
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2021-06-24 12:00:10	blackgatonegro	lopid can get it on the website too just need the client to install it.
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2021-06-24 12:01:17	akk	akik: That's to get a bootable windows installer? Or a windows that's actually installed on the stick?
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2021-06-24 12:01:31	akik	akk: usb stick installer
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2021-06-24 12:01:45	Samizdat	Can anyone recommend a free software, preferably cross-platform or *gag* Windows-ported powerpoint maker?
2021-06-24 12:01:51	akik	akk: you can actually use qemu to get a bootable installation on an usb stick
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2021-06-24 12:02:23	akk	akik: I never got that to work with qemu, though I put a lot of time into it.
2021-06-24 12:02:24	blackgatonegro	Samizdat did you check on the software list for ubuntu/mint,
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2021-06-24 12:02:27	akik	Samizdat: libreoffice impress
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2021-06-24 12:02:57	akik	akk: i can try to repeat it if you want
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2021-06-24 12:03:00	Samizdat	Thanks for the tips.
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2021-06-24 12:03:14	akk	akik: The only method that finally worked for me was using rufus on a borrowed windows machine to create a windows-to-go on the stick.
2021-06-24 12:03:31	akik	oh right
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2021-06-24 12:03:38	akk	akik: Fortunately I haven't needed it again since then, so don't go to any trouble for me.
2021-06-24 12:03:52	akk	(Needed it back then for a firmware update that lenovo only made available as a .exe)
2021-06-24 12:04:06	blackgatonegro	Unetbooting is unfortunately no good for windows
2021-06-24 12:04:24	blackgatonegro	rufus portable works on wine
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2021-06-24 12:04:44	akik	blackgatonegro: which devices does it see?
2021-06-24 12:04:51	akik	i thought wine didn't see hardware devices
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2021-06-24 12:06:19	blackgatonegro	akik It can see them, is just a bit complicated, I just used the playonlinux install that had winrar on it and it worked.
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2021-06-24 12:07:04	akik	last time i checked winecfg you could just mount a dir as a drive letter
2021-06-24 12:07:14	blackgatonegro	You just have to mount the usb stick first
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2021-06-24 12:11:46	superboot	How does rsync's --exclude work with paths? eg. rsync -a --exclude='/etc/passwd' /etc /backup    vs.    rsync -a --exclude='./passwd' /etc /backup    ?
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2021-06-24 12:13:12	akik	superboot: i don't remember about files but for dirs it's --exclude=dir
2021-06-24 12:13:23	akik	maybe it's the same
2021-06-24 12:13:55	jjakob	it's complicated, read the man page
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2021-06-24 12:14:54	superboot	jjakob: Yeah, that's what I remember from last time I had to dig into the details.
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2021-06-24 12:18:09	akk	You don't need the full path, you can --exclude=passwd if you're fairly sure you don't have any other files named that that you don't want to exclude.
2021-06-24 12:18:27	fivespoons	When I auto-complete with zsh on a script ./bar, with contents 'echo "$1" >> foo',  zsh is calling the script _once_ with '--version',  this only happens once,  and not again until I close/re-open the login shell.  Is this normal behaviour?
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2021-06-24 12:19:12	fivespoons	To elaborate, I never actually intentionally call the script, I only tab auto-complete
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2021-06-24 12:20:24	fivespoons	Actually, this _only_ happens if the script is named "install"
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2021-06-24 13:50:14	akik	babyface: did you try making the stick?
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2021-06-24 14:09:22	sysRPL	what's wrong with this ad photo? https://bit.ly/3d7auKk
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2021-06-24 14:11:45	hodapp	wellll the monitors look a tad flipped
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2021-06-24 14:12:05	nvmd	big brain
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2021-06-24 14:12:44	byte4byte	jim where you at?
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2021-06-24 14:14:36	treefrob	it's a clever mounting job
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2021-06-24 14:16:10	sysRPL	did anyone pay attention to the windows 11 `announcements` earlier today?
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2021-06-24 14:16:19	akik	sysRPL: yes
2021-06-24 14:16:24	treefrob	why would we do that?
2021-06-24 14:16:31	akik	we do
2021-06-24 14:16:42	sysRPL	to know what shit people are being asked to swallow
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2021-06-24 14:17:13	akik	i usually don't say we when i mean i
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2021-06-24 14:17:26	sysRPL	i look at new versions of ms windows as more shit piled on top of the pervious old pile of more shit
2021-06-24 14:17:32	akik	but it was ok for this occasion
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2021-06-24 14:18:02	sysRPL	and i look at linux as, it just does things, without all the piles of shit
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2021-06-24 14:18:11	MichaelLong	There's a new version of Windows? https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
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2021-06-24 14:19:18	sysRPL	MichaelLong: apparently that thing about windows 10 being the last version came before osx10 was renamed macos, and also came from a ms programmer and not ms directly
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2021-06-24 14:20:54	MichaelLong	sysRPL, anyway, this statement always stuck with me
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2021-06-24 14:21:13	akik	a developer evangelist that says
2021-06-24 14:21:29	akik	so a guy who's hired to promote windows as the god damn best dev box in the world
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2021-06-24 14:21:43	akik	(they said that in some presentatio)
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2021-06-24 14:24:53	sysRPL	ms spends hundreds of millions of $$ on their operating system, and with all those dollars and brains they come up with more telemetry and more automatic forced updates
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2021-06-24 14:25:07	sysRPL	plus a whole bunch more services on by default
2021-06-24 14:25:44	matsaman	you're forgetting the obvious macOS GUI copying =P
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2021-06-24 14:25:49	matsaman	which was surely deep hard work =P
2021-06-24 14:26:06	sysRPL	matsaman: i thought they copied kde plasma?
2021-06-24 14:26:14	sysRPL	it's hard to keep track of that
2021-06-24 14:26:15	matsaman	imagine being the poor POS tasked with copying macOS wholly like that
2021-06-24 14:26:28	matsaman	sysRPL: well, Windows 11 I mean
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2021-06-24 14:27:59	sysRPL	what would impress in a next revision of windows would be less services, less memory required, less cpu usage, no windows update service, a true package manager, and the ability to customize ui elements
2021-06-24 14:28:15	sysRPL	basically a desktop linux distro
2021-06-24 14:28:32	matsaman	I mean, Microsoft has lost in OSes, they gave up the phone market
2021-06-24 14:28:36	Shenka	everyone knows linux is just a fad
2021-06-24 14:28:50	matsaman	they should just start packaging GNU/Linux, fund Wine a little, and make money on Office & other software
2021-06-24 14:29:10	matsaman	but I hope they put that off as long as possible, because I don't want Microsoft meddling
2021-06-24 14:29:12	wwalker	I have an audio problem, in that sometimes my audio devices are just all "unavailable" (as listed in pactl list). I'm on a machine with an nVidia 950, the nouveau driver, the audio shows up as "GM206 High Definition Audio Controller Digital Stereo"  with about 7 selections for each monitor.  The "profiles" from pactl look like "output:hdmi-stereo-extra1: Digital Stereo (HDMI 2) Output (sinks: 1, sources:
2021-06-24 14:29:18	wwalker	0, priority: 5700, available: no)" I have two monitor, so, usually, 2 of these profiles say "available: yes"
2021-06-24 14:29:25	Shenka	microsoft needs to stop trying to be like apple and be more like a functionality over design OS like they used to be
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2021-06-24 14:29:49	sysRPL	ms does some good things ... i really like c# and dotnet core
2021-06-24 14:29:56	hodapp	microsoft needs to market a good cigar
2021-06-24 14:30:01	matsaman	don't need Windows for those
2021-06-24 14:30:02	sysRPL	and i like sql server over other sql engines
2021-06-24 14:30:03	hodapp	microsoft needs to buy me an F35
2021-06-24 14:30:07	matsaman	or for that
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2021-06-24 14:30:14	matsaman	although that's an unpopular opinion, IMO
2021-06-24 14:30:15	wwalker	But sometimes, they all say "available: no" sometime later they show as available again.  anyone have any idea what is going on?  (turning the monitors off and on doesn't clear it)
2021-06-24 14:30:21	sysRPL	matsaman: i am aware of that
2021-06-24 14:30:22	Shenka	Windows is incredibly clunky to use these days because its a frankensteined monster for 30+ years of software, with ever changing designs thats meant to appeal toward tablet/mobile demographics, while also pushing developer heavy features like apple despite not having support amongst devs
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2021-06-24 14:30:59	matsaman	plus it was paid for, rather than built in-house by their own people
2021-06-24 14:31:18	Shenka	i didnt know that bit, but it makes sense.
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2021-06-24 14:31:56	Shenka	if i were microsoft id be concerned about two things theyve failed to achieve: abandoning 32 bit legacy support, and transitioning to ARM. those are objectively necessary things that only worsen their operating system the longer they wait
2021-06-24 14:32:03	matsaman	the original Windows and the current NT family both were
2021-06-24 14:32:15	matsaman	they have ARM versions
2021-06-24 14:32:26	Shenka	yes but they've failed to gain support and user base.
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2021-06-24 14:32:52	matsaman	well, not really
2021-06-24 14:32:56	TheWild	hello folks
2021-06-24 14:33:05	TheWild	I'm just checking, are you really here? :D
2021-06-24 14:33:05	sysRPL	here are four things that microsoft did everyone laughs at: bob, me, windows phone os, windows as a cloud computing platform
2021-06-24 14:33:08	matsaman	when more arm "desktops" are around that'll happen naturally
2021-06-24 14:33:19	Shenka	apple is the only company that has done ARM transition well imo.
2021-06-24 14:33:21	matsaman	they did fail at a "mobile" OS, though, which also would've been mostly ARM
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2021-06-24 14:33:49	Shenka	matsaman: i disagree. the problem isnt people not transitioning fast enough, the problem is windows devs arent invested enough to migrate to arm. and microsoft is scared to rip the legacy support bandaid off
2021-06-24 14:33:51	matsaman	nah, Windows runs fine on ARM devices that predated Apple M1
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2021-06-24 14:34:01	Shenka	thats not what im talking about here though
2021-06-24 14:34:10	matsaman	because Windows is a desktop only OS
2021-06-24 14:34:21	matsaman	and very few ARM devices for a desktop experience exist
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2021-06-24 14:34:22	matsaman	even now
2021-06-24 14:34:35	matsaman	that will follow naturally as ARM invades "desktop", or what remains of that concept
2021-06-24 14:34:40	Shenka	Apple transitioned to ARM 100%, developers have updated their software, and people are buying the hardware without a problem. Microsoft has been trying to get ARM support for several years now, but developers never care because they just rely on legacy support
2021-06-24 14:34:53	matsaman	Apple transitioned to _mobile_ 100%, that's why
2021-06-24 14:35:02	matsaman	I think we're in agreement, but the point is that Windows lost mobile, not ARM
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2021-06-24 14:35:15	matsaman	admittedly mobile is a _huge_ driver for ARM
2021-06-24 14:35:34	matsaman	why develop Windows apps for ARM when there is no Windows on mobile presence
2021-06-24 14:35:39	matsaman	Apple devs have plenty of financial motivation
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2021-06-24 14:35:54	matsaman	although I doubt they tend to do much that requires ARM specificity
2021-06-24 14:35:55	Shenka	mobile is what created ARM yea - but like the M1 is a desktop class processor. its honestly impressive at how powerful it is. so like what do you mean by apple transitioned to mobile cause i dont think im understanding fully sorry
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2021-06-24 14:36:15	xythrez	I would love to see general purpose computing move off of x86, if that ever happens
2021-06-24 14:36:17	Shenka	oh youre saying apps on macOS get the benefit of easy support on iOS and iPadOS?
2021-06-24 14:36:22	matsaman	Apple's OS works for mobile and desktop, for x86 and ARM
2021-06-24 14:36:33	matsaman	so does Windows, but Windows doesn't bother trying to compete in the mobile market anymore
2021-06-24 14:36:41	matsaman	so while it supports ARM fine, nobody is using it for ARM really
2021-06-24 14:36:53	Shenka	sure. but most devs dont just port their apps cross platform like that in the apple ecosystem. its still divided between iOS and macOS
2021-06-24 14:36:56	matsaman	xythrez: why?
2021-06-24 14:37:11	matsaman	Shenka: I'd wager most devs do ARM first
2021-06-24 14:37:22	matsaman	Shenka: because mobile is the greater potential at this point, and for a long while already
2021-06-24 14:37:29	clemens3	the m1 rules, and microsoft or qualcom have nothing like that..
2021-06-24 14:37:37	Shenka	xythrez: completely agree. x86 is simply outdated and at the end of its life. ARM stands to bring so much to computing and thats the next logical evolution
2021-06-24 14:37:43	matsaman	but it's not like they really have to think about the arch as much as iOS
2021-06-24 14:37:44	clemens3	so why bother with windows on arm
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2021-06-24 14:38:04	clemens3	same for linux, all arm we have is raspberry pi, which frankly is mega successfull
2021-06-24 14:38:06	clemens3	ful
2021-06-24 14:38:11	matsaman	clemens3: that the M1 as hardware is impressive has nothing to do with anything else =P
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2021-06-24 14:38:21	kulak	what could be done to forward logs to a single centralized machine?  I am talking about forwardding what gets written by systemd and can be read by journalctl on a single machine. Can I just forward data to another journalctl?
2021-06-24 14:38:27	clemens3	has nothing todo with what?
2021-06-24 14:38:33	matsaman	anything
2021-06-24 14:38:42	clemens3	m1 has nothing todo with anything?
2021-06-24 14:38:47	clemens3	hmm, not sure that makes sense
2021-06-24 14:38:49	Shenka	thankfully linux switching to arm will be embraced by the community when the time is right imo. benefits of open source. but so much on windows is closed source and so microsoft has to drive that transition
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2021-06-24 14:39:20	clemens3	mac hardware fly of the shelves since the m1, before was totally flat sales, since then went up 90%!
2021-06-24 14:39:21	Shenka	the M1 is an objectively impressive CPU. like nothing comes close to the punch it packs. i just wish that kind of power would be offered by other manufacturers for other devices
2021-06-24 14:39:46	MichaelLong	never saw the architecture really a big deal for linux in general. I also would not say this switch did not happen already.
2021-06-24 14:39:47	hodapp	they'll follow suit soon I'm sure
2021-06-24 14:39:50	xythrez	matsaman x86 is a nightmare instruction set to support. The way how things are redundant, insecure (speculation, transactional memory), and kept for backwards compatibility is now causing issues on both security and efficiency. I would love to see a risc processor happen in HPC so we can start over. Preferably RiscV
2021-06-24 14:39:51	xythrez	Probably a pipe dream though
2021-06-24 14:39:53	clemens3	hopefully
2021-06-24 14:40:03	matsaman	Shenka: it will be
2021-06-24 14:40:05	MichaelLong	I'm mostly working on arm-based hardware when dealing with linux systems
2021-06-24 14:40:07	hodapp	xythrez: gonna be awhile before we see RISC-V in HPC, I think
2021-06-24 14:40:14	matsaman	Shenka: there is no mystery how it works
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2021-06-24 14:40:25	matsaman	xythrez: =)
2021-06-24 14:40:29	xythrez	Yeah. I'm betting never. Things move where the money goes
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2021-06-24 14:40:53	Shenka	i understand that, but switching to a new architecture isnt as simple as making the hardware. you have to get developers on board, and microsoft is terrified to forgo legacy support. they havent even dropped 32 bit support yet, which isnt good
2021-06-24 14:40:54	clemens3	intel was sleeping 5-7 years, even before fat monopoly.. and apple is holding the hardware mac/apple only..
2021-06-24 14:41:11	clemens3	AMD just now catching up with some cash on the bank..
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2021-06-24 14:41:29	Shenka	i think Nvidia will become a bigger player. theyre investing massively in ARM these days
2021-06-24 14:41:34	clemens3	hopefylly AMD will get more cash and convince TSMC to let them in on the good nodes..
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2021-06-24 14:42:35	clemens3	apple also designed the m1 around their software stack (objectove c what have you) gaining additional advantage to their 5nm process advantage
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2021-06-24 14:43:00	clemens3	but anyway, linux is agnostic and as soon as the hardware arrives..
2021-06-24 14:43:12	xythrez	Yeah. But while AMD is catching up and delivering good performance, it's not really innovating in ways that Intel does (as much as those mostly failed). We need more new ideas that can crash and burn (like TSX) that academia can experiment with, not just a fast processor
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2021-06-24 14:43:46	matsaman	good luck with that
2021-06-24 14:43:49	Shenka	intel has kinda just stopped being a major factor for innovation now.
2021-06-24 14:43:50	matsaman	processors are pretty tolerable
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2021-06-24 14:44:23	clemens3	they try to catch up now, let's see how that plays out..
2021-06-24 14:44:37	xythrez	Shenka:  yeah kinda. But I do like what they are trying with persistent memory and processor cache flushing on power failure
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2021-06-24 14:44:45	Shenka	yea, whoever survives will be those that embrace ARM well.
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2021-06-24 14:45:22	xythrez	All my personal devices are and though
2021-06-24 14:45:38	ice9	the whole system freeze and i have to hard reset when notifications arrives multiple times while the screen is off and session is locked; the screen turns on and after the timeout it switch off; another notification comes and screen turn on then crash/freeze; any idea?
2021-06-24 14:45:38	xythrez	s/and/amd/
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2021-06-24 14:46:46	Interloper	What's a good recommended pull backup solution? Want something simple and terminal based that can login to a remote server and pull the data
2021-06-24 14:46:46	-->	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 14:47:06	blackgatonegro	Back from the shower
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2021-06-24 14:47:13	softraid	hey
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2021-06-24 14:47:47	matsaman	hey soft
2021-06-24 14:48:33	blackgatonegro	Hello
2021-06-24 14:48:34	<--	rannnn8888 (~rannnn888@bzq-79-182-123-214.red.bezeqint.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-24 14:49:07	-->	zro (~zro@user/zro) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 14:49:11	blackgatonegro	Apparently some company wants to offer certifications for open source packages or something to avoid bad actors
2021-06-24 14:49:19	xythrez	Interloper : Would rsnapshot work?
2021-06-24 14:49:35	Interloper	Yeah I am leaning to rsnapshot
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2021-06-24 14:49:44	power_adapter	Interloper: ssh keys + scp/rsync + a basic shell script + crontab
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2021-06-24 14:50:04	Interloper	Does it support encryption? As in, can it encrypt the files itself with a passphrase or key
2021-06-24 14:50:18	Interloper	power_adapter Yeah that also will work, just seeing what other things are available
2021-06-24 14:50:27	moo	Interloper: try borg backup
2021-06-24 14:50:48	Interloper	Interloper does borg backup support pull backups? I use it currently
2021-06-24 14:50:49	moo	encryption, deduplication, compression, validity checks, versioning, pruning old archives etc
2021-06-24 14:50:59	xythrez	I don't think so. My goto when I need to setup something larger is bacula
2021-06-24 14:51:01	moo	ah, server pulls from client?
2021-06-24 14:51:05	akik	Interloper: what do you mean pull? push is not ok?
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2021-06-24 14:51:34	Interloper	akik I'd rather have the backup server itself SSH into a remote server and grab the data itself
2021-06-24 14:51:36	matsaman	dunno why you would want the backup system to also do the encrypting for you
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2021-06-24 14:51:46	moo	https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/deployment/pull-backup.html
2021-06-24 14:51:46	Interloper	@moo Yeah
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2021-06-24 14:51:47	matsaman	sounds like a complicated recipe for disaster
2021-06-24 14:52:00	moo	seems like yes, but never used it
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2021-06-24 14:52:23	moo	it is super good program, been using it for years
2021-06-24 14:52:29	Interloper	moo no me neither, but if it works it works and I do love Bor
2021-06-24 14:52:42	matsaman	I think a lot of people really make life hard on themselves by assuming they have to use a service for a remote backup
2021-06-24 14:52:54	tesseract	i heard hw video decoding with firefox works on debian bullseye. anyone achieved that here?
2021-06-24 14:53:27	moo	but i think backups are one thing you really ought to do well and use solid solutions :)
2021-06-24 14:53:31	<--	ignis (~ignisf@user/ignis) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 14:53:40	Interloper	matsaman a service? Was just seeing what program solutions are around that support what I want
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2021-06-24 14:53:45	Interloper	moo exactly
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2021-06-24 14:54:18	Interloper	I don't mind the idea of a bash script ran by a cron job or whatever, but having solid reliable solutions that exist are better
2021-06-24 14:54:52	blackgatonegro	hw video?
2021-06-24 14:55:30	xythrez	Bash script with nagios might be more reliable than bash script :)
2021-06-24 14:55:33	matsaman	there are alraedy solid reliable solutions
2021-06-24 14:55:35	mlu	since when is a bash script run by a cron job not solid and reliable?
2021-06-24 14:55:42	power_adapter	exactly
2021-06-24 14:55:55	mlu	I consider that a very solid and reliable solution for taking backups -- both are proven solutions, and the bash script is easy to debug / verify
2021-06-24 14:55:56	matsaman	if you make a backup and put it onto a system secured by ssh and encrypted, you don't need a single app that does all of that
2021-06-24 14:55:57	moo	also if you want solid pull backups, use borg normally, pushing to server A, then let server B rsync them (pulling) :)
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2021-06-24 14:56:03	matsaman	mlu: since forever
2021-06-24 14:56:10	mlu	just make sure you check your backups, and if they're not showing up as you expect or something, debug your setup
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2021-06-24 14:56:34	power_adapter	was going to say bash scripts + some watcher tool is always going to be more reliable than relying on some complex generic tool not customized to your requirements
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2021-06-24 14:57:03	Interloper	power_adapter no one said complex, Borg is a great tool, just didn't know it supported pull backups too
2021-06-24 14:57:05	moo	borg is solid, reliable and well tested. better than random rsync+bash+encfs? scripts :p
2021-06-24 14:57:21	mlu	yes, that :)
2021-06-24 14:57:26	softraid	borgbackup is very useful
2021-06-24 14:57:29	Interloper	rdiffbackup is quite popular too
2021-06-24 14:57:38	matsaman	rdiffbackup is nice
2021-06-24 14:57:39	softraid	I'm just wondering where I should place my backup server
2021-06-24 14:57:43	mlu	I once had a backup script that literally created a tarball and uploaded it to s3 with a timestamp
2021-06-24 14:57:48	softraid	can't be in my house
2021-06-24 14:57:51	moo	softraid: on each continent
2021-06-24 14:57:55	matsaman	bup is supposed to be similar
2021-06-24 14:57:59	Interloper	softraid colocation?
2021-06-24 14:58:11	softraid	Interloper: if I could get some cheap storage colo, that'd be great
2021-06-24 14:58:22	moo	mlu: how much did you pay to store 10tb of data? :)
2021-06-24 14:58:33	mlu	mno: good thing I won't find out ;)
2021-06-24 14:58:37	Interloper	softraid would recommend if you have the hardware. If not just pick a VPS provider I guess
2021-06-24 14:58:38	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e94:c247::688b:de0a) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 14:58:40	moo	oh btw btw btw! how about $10/mo storage colo?
2021-06-24 14:58:45	moo	https://zfs.rent
2021-06-24 14:58:49	power_adapter	softraid: you can keep it in your house and keep uploading an encrypted backup to backblaze for contingencies
2021-06-24 14:58:58	power_adapter	it's quite cheap
2021-06-24 14:59:09	moo	you then just zfs send ... | ssh yourhost.zfs.rent "zfs recv .."
2021-06-24 14:59:12	mlu	moo: that server only had like 10MB of data that needed to be backed up :)
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2021-06-24 14:59:20	softraid	backblaze sounds good
2021-06-24 14:59:20	moo	hehe fair
2021-06-24 14:59:22	<--	dshikoh (~dshikoh@user/dshikoh) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-24 14:59:28	akik	OpenZFS + CentOS 8.2   (maintence support until 2029 2021)  :)
2021-06-24 14:59:36	mlu	I did store 10TB on AWS before: it's $120/mo
2021-06-24 14:59:38	moo	you can ship whatever drive you want to zfs.rent and then just pay hosting / bandwidth cost
2021-06-24 14:59:42	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-24 14:59:52	moo	and you get full VPS
2021-06-24 14:59:52	akik	i wouldn't trust that site with spelling mistakes
2021-06-24 14:59:58	mlu	** it was $120/mo -- and god help me if I ned to pull the data
2021-06-24 15:00:00	akik	"BTFS"
2021-06-24 15:00:06	moo	eh check out /r/datahoarder :p
2021-06-24 15:00:13	mlu	backblaze is pretty neat
2021-06-24 15:00:25	<--	kwilczynski (sid379192@user/kwilczynski) has quit
2021-06-24 15:00:37	jim	power_adapter, have you tried borg?
2021-06-24 15:00:52	moo	its not a corporation trying to profit off your backups, its a honest solution to storing lots of data cheaply
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2021-06-24 15:01:29	blackgatonegro	Always have offline backups, always
2021-06-24 15:02:00	-->	dumayjonwh (~dumayjonw@89.187.168.221) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:02:43	mlu	the time when I don't have offline backups are for the times where I don't care about losing the data
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2021-06-24 15:02:54	<--	ajb (~ajb@cupid.whatbox.ca) has quit (Quit: bye)
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2021-06-24 15:03:01	power_adapter	@softraid they also provide a syncing tool with backblaze b2, a cli utility which is really handy
2021-06-24 15:03:35	byte4byte	jim if i compile for an old glibc will it work automatically for new versions?
2021-06-24 15:03:35	power_adapter	@jim nope, i tend to write my own bash or Go scripts for backups
2021-06-24 15:03:39	moo	i kinda want to buy cheap tape drive and tapes
2021-06-24 15:03:45	moo	but its hard to find
2021-06-24 15:04:00	byte4byte	seems like its hard to make a portable binary on linux
2021-06-24 15:04:03	moo	it'd be amazing for long term storage tho
2021-06-24 15:04:07	jim	byte4byte, likely you'd have to recompile
2021-06-24 15:04:09	byte4byte	they want you to build everything
2021-06-24 15:05:07	blackgatonegro	byte4byte depends on what you define by portable
2021-06-24 15:05:22	blackgatonegro	You can have all in one it just ends as a huge file.
2021-06-24 15:05:41	moo	here's worst idea: convert it all to asm.js bundle into .html inside <script> tag
2021-06-24 15:05:43	moo	:D
2021-06-24 15:05:46	akik	byte4byte: check out https://github.com/Kron4ek/Conty
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2021-06-24 15:06:02	blackgatonegro	Advantage tends to be that it will work, unfortunately it will take a lot of space.
2021-06-24 15:06:10	jim	power_adapter, maybe you should look into it... I dunno, if you're doing fine, you're doing fine... you should at least look at what it does
2021-06-24 15:06:14	<--	Voidn00b (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-24 15:06:38	-->	Voidn00b (~Voidn00b@user/voidn00b) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:06:51	jim	(but if you don't know about it, please don't badmouth it)
2021-06-24 15:07:09	colo	[20:58:11] <softraid> Interloper: if I could get some cheap storage colo, that'd be great - sorry, but I don't offer storage in myself right now :p
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2021-06-24 15:07:37	Interloper	colo atleast not cheap storage ;)
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2021-06-24 15:08:21	power_adapter	jim: sure, i'll have a look
2021-06-24 15:08:31	tusko	net neutrality is the most ignorant concept ever in networking
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2021-06-24 15:08:43	blackgatonegro	If you want a smaller linux distro there are a few alternatives.
2021-06-24 15:08:58	matsaman	smaller than what
2021-06-24 15:09:25	moo	colo: no? https://i.imgur.com/dYWnJYy.jpg :/
2021-06-24 15:09:39	blackgatonegro	Smaller in hard disk space.
2021-06-24 15:09:40	colo	hehe
2021-06-24 15:09:43	colo	80GB, man!
2021-06-24 15:09:48	softraid	colo: lmao
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2021-06-24 15:09:55	moo	when that movie came out i had 500 mb disk iirc :D
2021-06-24 15:09:59	colo	(iirc - it's been a LONG time :D)
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2021-06-24 15:10:16	jim	power_adapter, it's a little bit of a learning curve if you really try it... and, it's cli, so you can make
2021-06-24 15:10:27	jim	or change shell scripts
2021-06-24 15:10:36	blackgatonegro	colo either puppy linux, or another mini Linux.
2021-06-24 15:10:58	matsaman	there's no reason to use distros that cut-down
2021-06-24 15:11:01	matsaman	literally zero reason
2021-06-24 15:11:37	matsaman	128GB microsd card is like $20 tops?
2021-06-24 15:11:56	blackgatonegro	matsaman says someone who apparently never used old computers ever.
2021-06-24 15:12:22	matsaman	naturally it won't scale perfectly, but that means a huge GNU/Linux install at 30GB or so could fit into a $5 microsd card
2021-06-24 15:12:37	xythrez	byte4byte: I don't trust portable binaries much (at least for C/C++ applications) they tend to
2021-06-24 15:12:39	matsaman	30GB storage has been really cheap for a loooonnnggg time
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2021-06-24 15:12:51	xythrez	Portable binaries tend to break a lot more often
2021-06-24 15:13:05	xythrez	Fat fingered the send. Oops
2021-06-24 15:13:09	matsaman	and again, we're talking about a HUGE gnu/linux install that needs 30GB
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2021-06-24 15:13:24	Dagmar	THey're a little more expensive than that, but 32Gb microsd cards can be gotten all day long for ~$20
2021-06-24 15:13:36	blackgatonegro	Yeah but if you have a ten year old PC you can't really boot from a big flash card the lag would kill you.
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2021-06-24 15:13:39	matsaman	Dagmar: yup
2021-06-24 15:13:41	Dagmar	...and 30Gb would be practically everything in RHEL and EPEL at once
2021-06-24 15:14:01	matsaman	it's massive, 30GB is a massive install
2021-06-24 15:14:09	xythrez	Isn't the entirety of RockyLinux mirrors right now 500Gb?
2021-06-24 15:14:10	blackgatonegro	USB speeds have improved a lot but old machines are stuck with usb 2.0 at best.
2021-06-24 15:14:29	matsaman	so?
2021-06-24 15:14:39	matsaman	slow old machines are slow, is that your point?
2021-06-24 15:14:41	Dagmar	I've got installs booting from 32Gb USB 2.0 thumbdrives
2021-06-24 15:14:43	blackgatonegro	So you need the os on a hard disk
2021-06-24 15:14:47	power_adapter	jim: just checking it out, seems interesting, i was never bad mouthing it by the way, i just said that unless there is a real reason to use an external tool for something as straightforward as encryption + backup, most probably it'll always be simpler and more maintainable to have your own script + shell tools do the job. There are surely use cases for off the shelf tools, not denying that
2021-06-24 15:14:49	matsaman	blackgatonegro: nah
2021-06-24 15:14:55	Dagmar	Like... I *installed* to a USB 2.0 thumbdrive
2021-06-24 15:14:57	matsaman	but there's no particular reason to not use a hard disk
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2021-06-24 15:15:02	matsaman	30GB as a hard disk is also affordable
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2021-06-24 15:15:06	blackgatonegro	Fine if you love the snail bus
2021-06-24 15:15:07	matsaman	and has been for ages, think I said that already
2021-06-24 15:15:30	matsaman	you can no doubt even get a $20 128GB microsd card and put it into some adapter and put that into the HDD slot in a 1990s computer
2021-06-24 15:15:40	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: It works well enough
2021-06-24 15:15:50	-->	spithash (~spithash@user/spithash) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:15:51	Dagmar	Maybe stop buying crappy no-name thumbdrives
2021-06-24 15:15:53	blackgatonegro	I had a 80 gb hard disk ten years ago I think? Problem is actually finding a cheap compatible hard disk when dealing with old machines
2021-06-24 15:15:57	matsaman	you're the one talking about super old usb 2.0 only computers for some reason
2021-06-24 15:15:59	matsaman	that is the snail bus
2021-06-24 15:16:01	xythrez	Can you raid 5 microsd cards?
2021-06-24 15:16:07	matsaman	compatible? ...
2021-06-24 15:16:08	Dagmar	xythrez; Yeah
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2021-06-24 15:16:24	xythrez	Sounds like a bad idea. Gonna give it a try some day
2021-06-24 15:16:27	matsaman	these days you get a cheap new SSD and it's not even the regular hard disk size, it's tiny and comes with an adapter
2021-06-24 15:16:42	blackgatonegro	Dagmar the max speed is defined by the usb port. Old machines have usb 2.0 at most abs that's slow.
2021-06-24 15:17:02	matsaman	except RAID increases speed by pretending a lot of places are one
2021-06-24 15:17:07	Dagmar	I think perhaps you overestimate how reliant machines are on disk throughput once they're operational
2021-06-24 15:17:07	matsaman	but that's beside the point
2021-06-24 15:17:30	matsaman	you're describing an imaginary scenario
2021-06-24 15:17:49	matsaman	where someone simultaneously has an ancient machine and is expecting USB to be fast and can't afford to spend $20 and is a whiny li'l jerk
2021-06-24 15:17:51	Dagmar	You're too busy hoping that by being bombastic you can somehow convince me the thumbdrive I used at work for several months didn't actually happen.
2021-06-24 15:18:17	Dagmar	It's not fast to boot up but after that most everything winds up in filesystem cache pretty quickly.
2021-06-24 15:18:19	blackgatonegro	how big was that anyway?
2021-06-24 15:18:22	matsaman	I'm sure that person exists, but it's maybe a 1/1000000000 situation
2021-06-24 15:18:30	blackgatonegro	And how old was the machine?
2021-06-24 15:18:57	blackgatonegro	I am quite sure you weren't used a desktop from 2010
2021-06-24 15:19:08	Dagmar	And I'm quite sure it doesn't matter.
2021-06-24 15:19:17	Dagmar	For the last time, I am not talking about a theoretical scenario
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2021-06-24 15:19:38	matsaman	I've done it also, on ooolllddd desktops and old USB sticks
2021-06-24 15:19:47	Dagmar	I installed Fedora onto a 32Gb SanDisk thumbdrive.
2021-06-24 15:19:53	Dagmar	It's not horrible.
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2021-06-24 15:19:55	matsaman	32gb, massive =)
2021-06-24 15:19:58	<--	damx (~damxsa@2a02:cb80:4022:eb1e:1:2:4e00:8557) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-06-24 15:20:22	matsaman	heh, I remember my first USB stick, "techie" uncle gave us all 256MB ones for xmas
2021-06-24 15:20:41	Dagmar	I finally got around to ordering a couple USB 3.0 SSDs, but I still have the thumbdrive
2021-06-24 15:21:03	xythrez	My first 1gb stick is still one of my most prized possessions.
2021-06-24 15:21:14	matsaman	yeah I haven't actually ever had a USB stick fail
2021-06-24 15:21:15	Dagmar	What makes a *huge* difference is not using those terrible generic thumbdrives that barely sustain 10Mb/s
2021-06-24 15:21:20	matsaman	but I do lose them and give them away
2021-06-24 15:21:21	blackgatonegro	My first usb stick was 400 something mb; may still work.
2021-06-24 15:21:24	<--	LenPayne (~LenPayne@user/lenpayne) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-24 15:21:24	xythrez	It was like, wow! 1gb on something so small!
2021-06-24 15:21:25	<--	damx (~damxsa@2001:16a2:cc64:2600:500b:36c9:6fd2:f4ce) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-24 15:21:27	Dagmar	I've got some that are so crap they can't even manage that speed
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2021-06-24 15:21:51	matsaman	I remember helping this little old lady backup her files from a 700 _MB_ spinner in her old desktop
2021-06-24 15:21:54	-->	MerchantOfVenice (~patrick@user/merchantofvenice) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:21:56	blackgatonegro	I refused to get anything with less space as I had a cd burner
2021-06-24 15:21:58	matsaman	used the floppy drive =P
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2021-06-24 15:22:14	-->	amahl (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:22:20	matsaman	man, I remember having to burn things =P
2021-06-24 15:22:31	matsaman	never getting those hours back
2021-06-24 15:22:31	blackgatonegro	Ah yesh floppy drives the last decade I used thpse floppies were crap
2021-06-24 15:22:46	xythrez	I remember rubbing those together :/
2021-06-24 15:22:55	Dagmar	I wonder how I'm supposed to send SMS via email to Google Fi now
2021-06-24 15:23:06	sysRPL	is a core2duo system still a great system to run with linux?
2021-06-24 15:23:15	mlu	sure
2021-06-24 15:23:26	blackgatonegro	Dagmar two factor authentication crap?
2021-06-24 15:23:28	moo	it still works but its far from great :P
2021-06-24 15:23:29	xythrez	What are you doing on it?
2021-06-24 15:23:30	mlu	sysRPL: I hope you aren't buying a C2D; hope you just happen to have one
2021-06-24 15:23:34	-->	metah4ck3r (~meta@user/metah4ck3r) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:23:35	moo	^
2021-06-24 15:23:43	 *	akik is using a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T9550  @ 2.66
2021-06-24 15:23:51	-->	scabootssca__ (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has joined #linux
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2021-06-24 15:23:57	xythrez	Because if it's internet related. Blame JavaScript for that mess
2021-06-24 15:24:03	moo	i want apple m1 with linux support pls. any day now?
2021-06-24 15:24:12	blackgatonegro	Still have my first cd burner, just afraid to connect it due to different voltages.
2021-06-24 15:24:12	sysRPL	because when windows 7 was released a core2duo were the best thing you could get
2021-06-24 15:24:17	<--	scabby_ (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-24 15:24:17	esselfe	I'm happy with my core2 duo T7400
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2021-06-24 15:24:25	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: No, msg.fi.google.com has just stopped resolving entirely.
2021-06-24 15:24:34	blackgatonegro	Ah
2021-06-24 15:24:36	sysRPL	i hope you're not saying windows 7 runs software btter than linux
2021-06-24 15:24:39	Dagmar	That's going to be somewhat problematic
2021-06-24 15:24:55	akik	it runs different software better than linux :)
2021-06-24 15:24:59	blackgatonegro	Windows 7 runs Windows games better that Linux
2021-06-24 15:25:01	Dagmar	The _really_ irritating thing was that I was just testing the new mail server
2021-06-24 15:25:25	Dagmar	Like, not even five minutes ago I sent a text to my phone via their email gateway... and then *pfft*.  No more 'A' record.
2021-06-24 15:26:14	sysRPL	the point is, if windows 7 ran extra nice on a core2duo (that was top of the line when windows 7 came out), then linux ought to run extra fine on a core2duo
2021-06-24 15:26:21	blackgatonegro	SMS is very very very old, In Japan they havent used it in decades, replaced it with emails tied to cellphones.
2021-06-24 15:26:32	sysRPL	unless somehow windows 7 is lighter and more efficient than linux
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2021-06-24 15:26:38	blackgatonegro	depends on the distro
2021-06-24 15:26:46	moo	sysRPL: windows 7 was released 11 years ago
2021-06-24 15:26:57	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 15:26:58	moo	linux had quite a few upgrades since then
2021-06-24 15:27:00	-->	ice9 (~ice9@user/ice9) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 15:27:05	blackgatonegro	And what window manager are you using
2021-06-24 15:27:33	blackgatonegro	I am sure puppy linux would run fine.
2021-06-24 15:27:34	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-24 15:27:40	sysRPL	moo: what productive features of windows did windows 10 add beyond windows 7 that makes it that more cpu hungry?
2021-06-24 15:27:52	moo	no idea, i last used windows xp
2021-06-24 15:28:00	blackgatonegro	sysRPL spyware
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2021-06-24 15:28:09	akik	sysRPL: telemetry
2021-06-24 15:28:09	ice9	the whole system freeze and i have to hard reset when notifications arrives multiple times while the screen is off and session is locked; the screen turns on and after the timeout it switch off; another notification comes and screen turn on then crash/freeze; any idea?
2021-06-24 15:28:15	sysRPL	productive for users
2021-06-24 15:28:19	moo	also it probably would still work fine on core2duo
2021-06-24 15:28:27	phogg	sysRPL: that's a pretty subjective measurement
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2021-06-24 15:28:32	xythrez	They added a monitoring system, it even has a pre configured Microsoft URL to send the collected information to!
2021-06-24 15:28:36	moo	you can run WSL on windows 10
2021-06-24 15:28:43	moo	so you can linux while you windows
2021-06-24 15:28:52	sysRPL	moo: ah, but you dont need wsl on linux
2021-06-24 15:29:05	moo	its one thing i remembered lol
2021-06-24 15:29:07	blackgatonegro	Is emulated linux but yeah... it works.
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2021-06-24 15:29:19	moo	not really emulated, they straight up implemented ABI/API
2021-06-24 15:29:29	phogg	WSL2 is emulated
2021-06-24 15:29:33	sysRPL	again, a core2duo ought to run great on linux
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2021-06-24 15:29:35	akik	no it's virtualized
2021-06-24 15:29:40	sysRPL	for NON gaming things
2021-06-24 15:29:42	<--	mexen (uid495612@user/mexen) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-24 15:29:45	phogg	then WSL1 is emulated. You can't have it both ways~!
2021-06-24 15:30:39	moo	https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/comments/g4s0lk/is_wsl_actually_a_linux_installation_or_rather_an/
2021-06-24 15:30:40	moo	ah yeah
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2021-06-24 15:31:03	sysRPL	for editing photos, music, writing documents, programming, browsing the web, using chat etc
2021-06-24 15:31:33	moo	yes it should be fine, just make sure you have SSD and preferably 8gb+ ram
2021-06-24 15:31:46	sysRPL	what size ssd?
2021-06-24 15:31:58	moo	how many photos you want to have?
2021-06-24 15:32:06	moo	i still have t430s that runs fine with qubes even, and that runs everything in VMs
2021-06-24 15:32:09	sysRPL	all my porn is web based
2021-06-24 15:32:21	phogg	that's a heavyweight way to view images
2021-06-24 15:32:35	blackgatonegro	8 gb ram is anemic for today editing tools
2021-06-24 15:32:35	moo	you could use 60gb just fine, but 256gb is probably cheap spot now
2021-06-24 15:32:36	sysRPL	i have thsands of 10 megapixel product photos
2021-06-24 15:32:45	blackgatonegro	try at least 16
2021-06-24 15:33:05	Dagmar	Pfft... Mx record... MX record...  Wonder what went nuts in postfix there
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2021-06-24 15:33:38	sysRPL	i typically use a 120gb ssd
2021-06-24 15:33:58	sysRPL	i bought a couple dozen intel pro 2500 line of ssds ... all 120gb
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2021-06-24 15:34:16	sysRPL	i got them for $12.50 each from a liquidator
2021-06-24 15:35:16	sysRPL	i think they are mlc
2021-06-24 15:35:57	velix	sysRPL: I'd love to buy those $10 CPUs from China ...
2021-06-24 15:36:02	<--	tgarder (~tgarder@user/tgarder) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 15:36:02	velix	I really wonder what you get
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2021-06-24 15:36:22	sysRPL	what brand / models are they?
2021-06-24 15:36:29	velix	sysRPL: mostly fake.
2021-06-24 15:36:34	sysRPL	fake what?
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2021-06-24 15:36:41	sysRPL	fake ryzen?
2021-06-24 15:36:47	blackgatonegro	velix decades ago there was fqke cpus made in Asia.... how I feel old
2021-06-24 15:36:47	velix	sysRPL: They're rebranding old CPUs, label them and sell as new.
2021-06-24 15:36:53	--	zMVSSystenSoftwa is now known as zMVSSoftwareEgin
2021-06-24 15:37:01	blackgatonegro	made in cardboard even!
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2021-06-24 15:37:10	blackgatonegro	Hack the bios too.
2021-06-24 15:37:16	--	zMVSSoftwareEgin is now known as zMVSSoftwareProg
2021-06-24 15:37:22	blackgatonegro	The bios displays false information.
2021-06-24 15:37:23	velix	blackgatonegro: Yeah, some guys changed the CPUID
2021-06-24 15:37:39	blackgatonegro	The most common fake thing
2021-06-24 15:37:45	lacroix	zMVSSoftwareProg, ?
2021-06-24 15:37:50	blackgatonegro	the fake microsoft mouse
2021-06-24 15:37:59	--	zMVSSoftwareProg is now known as zMVSSYSProgramme
2021-06-24 15:38:05	blackgatonegro	Remember those? Quality was about the same.
2021-06-24 15:38:12	Interloper	http://arselinux.org
2021-06-24 15:38:20	velix	blackgatonegro: I've got a $1 mouse. For about 5 years now.
2021-06-24 15:38:22	velix	No joke.
2021-06-24 15:38:29	velix	It's the best mouse I've ever had.
2021-06-24 15:38:38	velix	Kabel is good, plastic is good
2021-06-24 15:38:45	--	zMVSSYSProgramme is now known as zMVSSYSEngineer
2021-06-24 15:38:46	velix	no glueing gum plastic
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2021-06-24 15:38:54	blackgatonegro	I had several genius mouse, dowb to two now.
2021-06-24 15:38:54	velix	erm ... zMVSS ... what's wrong?
2021-06-24 15:39:07	lacroix	zMVSSYS*, can you settle on one nickname please?
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2021-06-24 15:39:35	blackgatonegro	Yeah stuff like many alts get u in trouble here.
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2021-06-24 15:39:46	phogg	velix: I bought a 3USD used IBM keyboard from a seller with a box of them, once. I plunked it on a desk and still use it there 17 years later. I only wish I had bought the box.
2021-06-24 15:39:49	zMVSSYSEngineer	Apologies! All Settled in
2021-06-24 15:40:00	lacroix	great :)
2021-06-24 15:40:02	lacroix	thank you
2021-06-24 15:40:09	velix	phogg: I wish I'd have bought more mouses.
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2021-06-24 15:40:18	velix	phogg: I've got two hands.
2021-06-24 15:40:20	velix	only 1 mouse
2021-06-24 15:40:20	blackgatonegro	My keyboard is 15 years old, some of the letters are erased due to use.
2021-06-24 15:40:20	phogg	velix: it's an expensive habit
2021-06-24 15:40:44	phogg	blackgatonegro: that's happened to me on more than one board. It takes surprisingly little time for the cheap ones to wear through
2021-06-24 15:40:58	velix	blackgatonegro: My keyboard is also 11 years old and it works grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat
2021-06-24 15:41:02	blackgatonegro	Well, I used to just swap mouses when they started to fail and cleaning didn't quite work.
2021-06-24 15:41:17	velix	sorrrrrrrrrrrrry, the rrrrrrrrrrrr stucks sometimesss
2021-06-24 15:41:21	phogg	optical mice last *forever*
2021-06-24 15:41:25	mixfix41	you can find some good ps/2 keyboard gems
2021-06-24 15:41:30	velix	phogg: Nah.. nah nahhhh
2021-06-24 15:41:34	velix	phogg: naaah!
2021-06-24 15:41:36	blackgatonegro	But had a serial port mouse that lasted a decade
2021-06-24 15:41:42	phogg	velix: compared to ball mice? Oh yes.
2021-06-24 15:41:45	velix	phogg: those rubber stuff on gaming mouses.
2021-06-24 15:41:56	velix	phogg: Yeah okay, the machine is fine. But the casing got bad.
2021-06-24 15:42:01	blackgatonegro	And it was a ball one.
2021-06-24 15:42:02	phogg	velix: you can find duds in any category
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2021-06-24 15:42:07	velix	or the broken cables because of the ... weichmacher... what's it in English?
2021-06-24 15:42:13	blackgatonegro	Very durable plastic it was
2021-06-24 15:42:15	DLange	softener
2021-06-24 15:42:17	velix	weaner?
2021-06-24 15:42:20	velix	weakener*
2021-06-24 15:42:21	velix	DLange: Thanks.
2021-06-24 15:42:40	velix	blackgatonegro: but not durable color.
2021-06-24 15:42:46	velix	Remember the old cases? :-)
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2021-06-24 15:42:52	velix	Started gray, turned yellow-ish
2021-06-24 15:43:03	phogg	velix: the really old cases were metal
2021-06-24 15:43:05	blackgatonegro	Still using a CRT monitor had it as a spare and my flatscreen been overheating so.. Back to CRT
2021-06-24 15:43:19	velix	phogg: like the G5 apples cases :D
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2021-06-24 15:43:37	phogg	I had a stash of spare CRTs in my basement for a while. I eventually discarded all but one of them. I love them, but desk space is hard to come by.
2021-06-24 15:43:38	blackgatonegro	velix yeah the color got darker over time.
2021-06-24 15:44:02	velix	May desk isn't deep enough for a CRT.
2021-06-24 15:44:15	phogg	I can get a big desk, but not a bigger room to put it in )-:
2021-06-24 15:44:24	blackgatonegro	Only keep a single CRT monitor, yeah due to lack of space.
2021-06-24 15:44:53	mlu	I wonder if it'd be fun to have a CRT around
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2021-06-24 15:45:01	 *	velix starts to code in binary now 1000100010001000100111110010001001001001
2021-06-24 15:45:05	velix	ah damn, typo
2021-06-24 15:45:10	mlu	they seem like these hunky giant things that I don't like IIRC
2021-06-24 15:45:25	mlu	I do have a radar tube around though: that's fun
2021-06-24 15:45:40	blackgatonegro	mlu you have problems with the screen resolution as most programs nowadays are made for flatscreens.
2021-06-24 15:45:43	velix	mlu: radar? are you the guy, which makes trouble to my 5 GHz WiFi?
2021-06-24 15:45:57	blackgatonegro	But overall still works fine.
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2021-06-24 15:46:49	mlu	velix: I haven't turned it on yet; want to make sure I'm alive to turn it off
2021-06-24 15:47:06	blackgatonegro	bye bye nap time
2021-06-24 15:47:17	mlu	blackgatonegro: yeah, I have plenty of excellent LED displays for anything modern
2021-06-24 15:47:31	blackgatonegro	Use a very very very long cable?
2021-06-24 15:47:31	 *	mlu creepily pats blackgatonegro on the head
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2021-06-24 15:55:31	velix	pats = pets ?
2021-06-24 15:55:39	 *	velix isn't native
2021-06-24 15:55:40	 *	mlu pots and puts
2021-06-24 15:55:48	mlu	pats = tap tap, pets = stroke stroke
2021-06-24 15:56:04	velix	On tictoc many girls talk about "peg" ... don't google it! I once did, I was shocked.
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2021-06-24 15:56:16	mlu	yay, strapons
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2021-06-24 15:56:46	velix	tampons, strapons ... anything female ends with "pons"?
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2021-06-24 15:57:03	raccoon_dog	Uh.
2021-06-24 15:57:10	velix	oh, this is #linux - sorry.
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2021-06-24 15:57:37	Scarecr0w	What about coupons?
2021-06-24 15:57:37	lacroix	velix.. there are women as well around here
2021-06-24 15:57:47	lacroix	so, let's keep it on-topic :)
2021-06-24 15:57:59	velix	Scarecr0w: it's shopping ... so year, girls stuff.
2021-06-24 15:58:03	velix	yeah*
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2021-06-24 15:58:32	Interloper	@velix ...yawn
2021-06-24 15:58:41	velix	If you buy 100 toilet papers rolls, you'll get 10.5 for free.
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2021-06-24 16:11:24	sozuba	if i use dd to clone my bootable usb (windows 10) as an img and later restore it back to the usb through dd, it should work as before right? I mean it hsould be able to boot into windows 10 installation?
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2021-06-24 16:14:50	DLange	yes, as much as you were able to boot of it before
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2021-06-24 16:17:21	sozuba	DLange, awesome :) I know it sould work theoritically, but i am no expert
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2021-06-24 16:17:36	sozuba	Thank you for your input DLange
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2021-06-24 16:17:45	DLange	no problem
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2021-06-24 16:22:36	akik	courteous++
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2021-06-24 16:23:11	akik	sozuba: if you need to recreate it from scratch, i can help with that
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2021-06-24 16:24:54	sozuba	akik, sorry I did not get what you meant
2021-06-24 16:24:55	jaggz	anyone know some software that'll let me draw a border, hit a key to take a snapshot, then hit it again each time i want a new frame.. and it'll make me a gif or a video (both with settable framerate) out of it?
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2021-06-24 16:25:12	sozuba	akik, what did you mean recreate from scratch?
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2021-06-24 16:25:31	jaggz	tired of the universe and you lot and want to try it again?
2021-06-24 16:25:53	akik	sozuba: it means if that stick breaks for some reason, you can redo it
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2021-06-24 16:26:36	akik	sozuba: or create it for a new version
2021-06-24 16:26:51	sozuba	akik, ah okay so you meantt "It can help with that" and not "I can help with that" ?
2021-06-24 16:27:10	sozuba	cause i was wondering how can you help me with recreating? o0 haha
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2021-06-24 16:29:25	sozuba	akik, or did it get you wrong? :(
2021-06-24 16:30:40	akik	sozuba: i've written a guide on how to do it
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2021-06-24 16:30:51	sozuba	i have backedup my windows parition, and i am going to wipe the hard drive, but just in case something happens in need the usb to reinstall, infrotunately i have only one usb at the moment and i am going to format it for another use. so incase things faile, i can just rebuild the windows bootable from the img
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2021-06-24 16:31:10	sozuba	akik, that's cool. COuld you share the link?
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2021-06-24 16:31:21	akik	sozuba: yes. do you boot in bios or uefi mode?
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2021-06-24 16:31:32	sozuba	akik, UEFI.
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2021-06-24 16:32:13	akik	sozuba: here it is: https://atkdinosaurus.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/how-to-create-a-bootable-uefi-gpt-windows-10-usb-stick-in-ubuntu/
2021-06-24 16:32:31	sozuba	i tried using ventoy for multiboot, but unfortunately the latest windows 10 disk can;t recognise the hard drive and looks for driver and it failed a lot. the older windows 10 version worked though
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2021-06-24 16:32:52	sozuba	akik, thank you, checking it out
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2021-06-24 16:36:09	sozuba	trying it now
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2021-06-24 16:36:46	Forza	Hi :)
2021-06-24 16:36:48	akik	sozuba: please check the device names as there's no error checking
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2021-06-24 16:37:12	sozuba	akik, sure no worries, i have taken all precautions :)
2021-06-24 16:37:13	sozuba	Thanks
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2021-06-24 16:37:38	Forza	Is there a tool like bmon but for disk io with individual disks?
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2021-06-24 16:38:25	akik	Forza: vmstat -d 3 100 maybe. i don't know what bmon is
2021-06-24 16:39:15	RayTracer	Forza: I'd go for iostat -xyz -j LABEL
2021-06-24 16:39:19	akik	nmon can also show separate partitions "nmon; d"
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2021-06-24 16:39:47	matsaman	and I heard mention of a 'glances', too
2021-06-24 16:40:30	Forza	RayTracer: I just don't like the one new line per iteration thing with iostat or dstat
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2021-06-24 17:18:05	ivche	hey ppl
2021-06-24 17:18:20	ivche	so im using zathura with zathura-pdf-mupdf
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2021-06-24 17:18:31	ivche	and when i open an epub
2021-06-24 17:18:54	ivche	every entry in the table of contents, points to page one
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2021-06-24 17:19:10	ivche	i have the same setup on my laptop, and that doesn't happen
2021-06-24 17:19:15	ivche	any ideas?
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2021-06-24 17:20:14	superkuh	Open the epub, it's just a renamed zip. Look at the toc or index files.
2021-06-24 17:20:22	superkuh	See if the links are correct in the file itself.
2021-06-24 17:20:44	superkuh	Or, try in another display program to confirm it is the zathura that's bad and not the file.
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2021-06-24 17:21:25	superkuh	Probably a file like toc.ngx but it's just plain text.
2021-06-24 17:21:33	superkuh	ER, .ncx.
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2021-06-24 17:22:17	superkuh	So you'll see a line like, <navPoint class="chapter" id="num_1" playOrder="1"> and then nexted below the <content src="index_split_000.html"/>
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2021-06-24 17:22:33	superkuh	And you can confirm by eye that the links point to different things.
2021-06-24 17:23:25	superkuh	If the file isn't actually borked and it's a zathura issue, well, that's beyond me. I use evince and it's forks.
2021-06-24 17:24:04	sumthing1980	hello what is a command to show the number of files in a directory?
2021-06-24 17:24:21	superkuh	ls | wc -l
2021-06-24 17:25:02	phogg	maybe, but that excludes dotfiles
2021-06-24 17:25:05	ivche	superkuh:
2021-06-24 17:25:07	ivche	https://git.pwmt.org/pwmt/zathura/-/issues/187
2021-06-24 17:25:11	sumthing1980	thanks
2021-06-24 17:25:13	matsaman	and makes no distinctino between files and directories
2021-06-24 17:25:15	matsaman	but still, probably fine
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2021-06-24 17:25:39	matsaman	sumthing1980: something more complicated and accurate would involve 'find' and -maxdepth/-mindepth
2021-06-24 17:25:45	matsaman	and maybe -type f
2021-06-24 17:25:50	superkuh	Unfortunately gitlab is a broken website that does not serve real HTML anymore.
2021-06-24 17:25:58	sumthing1980	thanks
2021-06-24 17:26:08	ivche	wdym superkuh ?
2021-06-24 17:26:15	akik	wdym?
2021-06-24 17:26:27	superkuh	I mean I cannot read anything on any gitlab server web pages.
2021-06-24 17:26:32	superkuh	The content is never shown.
2021-06-24 17:26:40	ivche	how so?
2021-06-24 17:26:48	superkuh	Because it uses bleeding edge things like web components.
2021-06-24 17:26:58	gru	hey i have the process "ip a" in D-state
2021-06-24 17:26:59	phogg	sumthing1980: including dotfiles (using bash): (shopt -s dotglob; ls -d * | wc -l)
2021-06-24 17:27:05	superkuh	You have to use a modern mega-corp browser that's been released within the last year or so to use gitlab.
2021-06-24 17:27:09	gru	so i cannot kill it.. what can i do?
2021-06-24 17:27:22	phogg	sumthing1980: files only (dotfiles included), requires GNU find: find . -maxdepth 1 -type f | wc -l
2021-06-24 17:27:23	ivche	what? what do u use? lynx?
2021-06-24 17:27:25	ivche	lmao
2021-06-24 17:27:30	Kyv	why not?
2021-06-24 17:27:37	sumthing1980	thanks
2021-06-24 17:27:38	superkuh	I use a fork of Firefox that was last updated about a month ago.
2021-06-24 17:27:40	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 17:27:52	superkuh	But it does not support google-isms and other bleeding edge attack surfaces.
2021-06-24 17:27:55	ivche	that should load gitlab just fine
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2021-06-24 17:28:14	superkuh	You'd think. But nope. Gitlab is pretty terrible now.
2021-06-24 17:28:36	ivche	F
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2021-06-24 17:29:25	Kyv	no F's
2021-06-24 17:29:27	Kyv	no respects
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2021-06-24 17:30:21	ivche	mu qutebrowser opens it
2021-06-24 17:30:24	ivche	no problems
2021-06-24 17:30:26	ivche	my*
2021-06-24 17:30:56	ivche	i managed to fix it somehow
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2021-06-24 17:31:17	superkuh	Yay! Computers!
2021-06-24 17:31:27	superkuh	Do something enough times and it behaves differently.
2021-06-24 17:31:55	Kyv	superkuh: which fork is it?
2021-06-24 17:31:57	ivche	truu
2021-06-24 17:32:01	ivche	prob librewolf
2021-06-24 17:32:03	superkuh	Kyv, Palemoon.
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2021-06-24 17:32:10	ivche	palemoon lul
2021-06-24 17:32:16	ivche	why
2021-06-24 17:32:20	ivche	of all browsers
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2021-06-24 17:32:56	superkuh	Palemoon is still the least worst for my needs. I run a *lot* of tabs. Like, hundreds of tabs, thousands sometimes (often). Being a single process browser I with NoScript support I can do 500 tabs in under 3GB of ram.
2021-06-24 17:33:00	matsaman	because Firefox is historically good, but getting worse & worse
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2021-06-24 17:33:27	matsaman	don't much care for the name, but Firefox's name sounded stupid AF when it came out, too
2021-06-24 17:33:30	matsaman	as did 'Phoenix'
2021-06-24 17:33:35	superkuh	Gecko fan?
2021-06-24 17:33:37	matsaman	content is king
2021-06-24 17:33:50	Kyv	there is much worse.
2021-06-24 17:33:54	matsaman	gecko isn't the whole thing, so it doesn't matter
2021-06-24 17:33:56	matsaman	Kyv: for sure
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2021-06-24 17:34:12	superkuh	matsaman, it was at the very beginning.
2021-06-24 17:34:16	ivche	why 500 tabs
2021-06-24 17:34:19	ivche	wtf
2021-06-24 17:34:28	superkuh	Bookmarks don't save tab history.
2021-06-24 17:34:28	matsaman	ivche: some people crush knowledge
2021-06-24 17:34:37	ivche	crush knowledge?
2021-06-24 17:34:39	superkuh	I've been doing massive sessions since Opera 5 invented tabs.
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2021-06-24 17:34:47	matsaman	superkuh: yeah it was
2021-06-24 17:35:12	matsaman	ivche: some people see links and open them, and decimate the knowledge provided, exponentially
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2021-06-24 17:35:26	superkuh	http://superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2003.png http://superkuh.com/number-of-tabs-vs-date-2017.png
2021-06-24 17:35:52	matsaman	if you open a page and don't have many questions as to what's on that page immediately, then it's either boring content, you're a mega genius, or you simply don't thirst to know all things
2021-06-24 17:35:53	|Psycho|	500 tabs, go see a doctor
2021-06-24 17:35:59	mesaboogie	insanity
2021-06-24 17:36:15	Kyv	500 tabs I cannot conceive. that would get too unruly.
2021-06-24 17:36:22	superkuh	1/3rd are pretty much permanent tabs that I always want to have instantly accessible. Middle 1/3 are projects I'm working on. Last third are tabs for the day/week etc.
2021-06-24 17:36:28	matsaman	some people also sit on their computers for 7+ hours a day
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2021-06-24 17:36:43	superkuh	With full text tab search it's not bad. Plus the first 2/3 of my tab stack are somewhat static so I know their positions by heart.
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2021-06-24 17:36:51	matsaman	I hit 500 open "windows" on my phone browser regularly, too
2021-06-24 17:37:08	superkuh	Well, I have 5 monitors at home. It's a bit easier to manage many things.
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2021-06-24 17:37:29	superkuh	Anyway, 'just a matter of taste.
2021-06-24 17:37:49	matsaman	I don't think it is
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2021-06-24 17:37:58	matsaman	why wouldn't you have tons of tabs open at a time
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2021-06-24 17:38:06	|Psycho|	I don't think is a matter of taste, I thing you have serious issues
2021-06-24 17:38:09	matsaman	'cause you're boring and hate knowledge =P
2021-06-24 17:38:14	Kyv	how much of ones memory becomes 'transactional' at 500+ tabs?
2021-06-24 17:38:22	ivche	|Psycho|: hahahahahha
2021-06-24 17:38:28	ivche	my man's concerned
2021-06-24 17:38:34	superkuh	I think the whole "minimalism" ethos and decluttering makes absolutely no sense in non-physical systems.
2021-06-24 17:38:46	matsaman	tabs aren't clutter
2021-06-24 17:38:46	akik	500 "windows"
2021-06-24 17:38:48	matsaman	they're a queue
2021-06-24 17:38:52	ivche	thats not true at all
2021-06-24 17:38:58	matsaman	when you're _done_ with one, you close it
2021-06-24 17:38:58	ivche	mental minimalism exists
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2021-06-24 17:39:11	matsaman	if you just avoid queues that's your problem, you're inefficient =P
2021-06-24 17:39:12	ivche	It let's you focus your attention
2021-06-24 17:39:17	ivche	on what's important
2021-06-24 17:39:24	ivche	and 700 tabs
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2021-06-24 17:39:27	matsaman	opening a tab and leaving it till you can address it doesn't steal attention
2021-06-24 17:39:29	ivche	can't be all important
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2021-06-24 17:39:44	superkuh	Oh, doing it because it's a matter of taste is fine. But I'm just saying that having digital "clutter" doesn't actually hurt like it does in a physical space. So there's less need for non-enthusiasts to adopt minimalist practices.
2021-06-24 17:39:45	matsaman	and it's easy to look at a tab and see if it's unimportant and close it
2021-06-24 17:39:47	ivche	matsaman: you'd think so
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2021-06-24 17:39:50	matsaman	and bookmark it if it is, etc.
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2021-06-24 17:39:55	matsaman	or read it all, etc.
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2021-06-24 17:40:12	matsaman	superkuh: especially if tagged FSes were the norm
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2021-06-24 17:41:17	Kyv	superkuh: with that level of reference material at hand and such a devout system, how much do you find yourself actually bumpin' the old brain-uglies together?
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2021-06-24 17:41:34	superkuh	3.
2021-06-24 17:41:40	matsaman	nice
2021-06-24 17:41:41	Kyv	something in the brain has to be going atrophic at that point in terms of data retention
2021-06-24 17:41:54	superkuh	http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/
2021-06-24 17:42:06	superkuh	The best of it eventually makes it to there and the tabs close.
2021-06-24 17:42:20	matsaman	Kyv: nah
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2021-06-24 17:42:45	matsaman	but again, you don't have to retain it all in your head
2021-06-24 17:42:50	matsaman	...if all those tabs are still open
2021-06-24 17:42:57	twainwek	good morning
2021-06-24 17:43:01	matsaman	mornin'
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2021-06-24 17:44:15	acresearch	hello people, i have just installed manjaro light (headless) to a raspberry pi,    how can i connect to wifi from the terminal?
2021-06-24 17:44:30	Kyv	It seems akin in a way how often you actually cant have a conversation with someone where facts are in dispute without some chucklehead insisting to look it up.
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2021-06-24 17:44:58	Kyv	When you are out somewhere and it is just a part of natural social process
2021-06-24 17:45:17	Kyv	Because they have their phone
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2021-06-24 17:47:22	Kyv	acresearch: it probably has either connman, nmcli, or wpa_suppplicant + a dhcp client.
2021-06-24 17:47:29	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-24 17:47:34	Kyv	So check which one of those it has.
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2021-06-24 17:50:01	Kyv	In any case, there is a TUI or interactive set up available for all of them.
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2021-06-24 17:50:22	omero	I have a momentary lapse of reason... in bash ctrl+r activate reverse search of history. whats the forward equivalent? (im in a terminal, thus no browers to google it up, and no man pages)
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2021-06-24 17:50:32	sozuba	akik, your guide is flawless, worked ike a charm. Thank you. I an book marking it
2021-06-24 17:50:35	sozuba	:)
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2021-06-24 17:51:07	akik	heyoo
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2021-06-24 17:55:53	gru	is it possible to remove packages in debian from a live cd?
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2021-06-24 17:56:56	nevoyu	gru, from an existing install or the livecd itself?
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2021-06-24 17:57:09	omero	gru, there is a #debian channel... asking there seems appropriate?
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2021-06-24 17:57:37	gru	nevoyu, from an existing install
2021-06-24 17:58:10	nevoyu	gru, best solution is to chroot into an account and use apt to remove the packages
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2021-06-24 17:59:06	gru___	nevoyu, ok i try this
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2021-06-24 18:01:32	sozuba	is it possible to install linux on an external hard disk through an existing live system?
2021-06-24 18:02:03	twainwek	sure
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2021-06-24 18:02:57	knocktwice	acresearch: I would expect you have to supply wifi access credentials to wpa_supplicant before booting the RPi.
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2021-06-24 18:04:19	knocktwice	acresearch: something like this: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/wireless/headless.md
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2021-06-24 18:08:17	Kyv	wpa_passphrase will simplify by writing output of `wpa_passphrase "SSID" "password"` to config file
2021-06-24 18:08:36	Kyv	the ctrl_interface and update_config lines have to be added in
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2021-06-24 18:11:23	akik	acresearch: you could try if this works for you: (using network-manager) nmcli connection add type wifi con-name your_ssid ssid your_ssid ifname interface_name
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2021-06-24 18:11:56	acresearch	akik: knocktwice thanks guys i found it :-)
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2021-06-24 18:12:34	akik	to authenticate to the wifi from terminal: nmcli --ask conn up your_ssid
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2021-06-24 18:13:13	Kyv	wouldnt be surprised if manjaro actually added networkmanager to their light install :|
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2021-06-24 18:14:44	Kyv	more dependencies and a gui all dressed up with nowhere to go
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2021-06-24 18:36:47	acresearch	i forgot some of the basic arch commands,    update and upgrade is packman -Sy?   only -Sy?    and to install packman -S only?
2021-06-24 18:36:56	<--	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has left #linux (bye)
2021-06-24 18:36:59	sozuba	The only way, i think, to install linux to an external hard-disk through an exisiting running linux is through booting the iso through qemu or other vm while passing through thee exernal disk to the vm. is there any other approach?
2021-06-24 18:37:06	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-24 18:37:08	Kyv	upgrade is pacman -Syu
2021-06-24 18:37:10	<--	irrenhaus3 (~xenon@ip-37-201-6-65.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-06-24 18:37:19	acresearch	Kyv: ah ok
2021-06-24 18:37:29	acresearch	Kyv: and to install?  pacman -S?
2021-06-24 18:37:35	Kyv	yeah
2021-06-24 18:37:43	<--	Xaroth (~Xaroth@022-139-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-06-24 18:37:52	acresearch	Kyv: thanks
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2021-06-24 18:38:36	Kyv	yep
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2021-06-24 18:39:02	blackgatonegro	Back
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2021-06-24 18:39:20	blackgatonegro	Remember when I said offline backups? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/mass-data-wipe-in-my-book-devices-prompts-warning-from-western-digital/
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2021-06-24 18:39:37	akik	woah
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2021-06-24 18:40:43	sozuba	this is insane
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2021-06-24 18:41:10	akik	i disconnected my nas from internet when the customer service said i couldn't deny the telemetry
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2021-06-24 18:41:20	blackgatonegro	Libera  needs an extra server?
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2021-06-24 18:41:36	akik	blackgatonegro: libera means freedom from the lee prince
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2021-06-24 18:42:30	blackgatonegro	Yeah not sure if the "this is insane" was due to the remote wipe or this server having some problems.
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2021-06-24 18:42:47	blackgatonegro	I know, I moved from that other place here
2021-06-24 18:43:13	akik	https://www.theregister.com/2015/01/17/scary_code_of_the_week_steam_cleans_linux_pcs/
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2021-06-24 18:43:40	blackgatonegro	Uh
2021-06-24 18:43:43	akik	that was an instant classic
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2021-06-24 18:44:12	blackgatonegro	I think I had steam on Linux back then? But I never used it much.
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2021-06-24 18:44:31	Kyv	most everyone moved from that other place to here
2021-06-24 18:44:34	Kyv	that was the whole point
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2021-06-24 18:44:57	blackgatonegro	"moving Steam's per-user folder to another location in the filesystem"
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2021-06-24 18:45:19	blackgatonegro	Never did that just did a backup of the only game I had.
2021-06-24 18:45:37	blackgatonegro	Yeah
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2021-06-24 18:46:04	blackgatonegro	Dictatornode did a wipe of users and channels
2021-06-24 18:46:18	sozuba	akik, how can hardware companies force telemetry? They aren;t give the devices for free.
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2021-06-24 18:46:51	Kyv	If anyone wanted to full-on sabotage a network, you couldnt do a better job if you tried.
2021-06-24 18:46:53	sozuba	to be honest it isn;t fair for softwares too, but hardwares, i am like what?
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2021-06-24 18:47:32	sozuba	Kyv, that's pretty obvious
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2021-06-24 18:49:27	akik	sozuba: this is what they replied to me: "Sorry for the inconvenience, but by the law, we need to notify you and the NAS function does require to get some info. i.e. Cloud ID requires to collect the serial number of the system to bind it with your email. So we need to comply with the law."
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2021-06-24 18:50:10	akik	which is interesting as the company is from taiwan and i'm in finland
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2021-06-24 18:53:01	sozuba	this is pure gibberish, pure arrogance. DId you ask them what law do they relate to?
2021-06-24 18:53:20	akik	sozuba: no. taiwanese laws don't apply here
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2021-06-24 18:53:55	sozuba	akik, that's true, i was wondering if they meant finnish law?
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2021-06-24 18:54:07	akik	it's the same kind of message than in all cookie consent pop-ups "your privacy is important to us"
2021-06-24 18:54:30	sozuba	also you could block their IP for telemetry, but yeah that's a bit of etra work
2021-06-24 18:54:31	akik	there's nothing that would require it in finland
2021-06-24 18:54:45	akik	sozuba: i removed the default gw from the nas settings
2021-06-24 18:55:09	sozuba	akik, hahaha yeah, your privacy is important to us. - meaning we sell your privacy because we are cold hearted c
2021-06-24 18:55:25	sozuba	akik, sweet
2021-06-24 18:56:09	TheFreim	Anyone know a good tool that I can autostart with my system to record how much data I am uploading and downloading while my computer is up?
2021-06-24 18:56:58	blackgatonegro	TheFreim there are several network usage monitors, terminal or visual?
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2021-06-24 19:01:40	TheFreim	blackgatonegro: comfortable with both. Just need to be able to create logs of uploads/downloads amounts.
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2021-06-24 19:02:26	blackgatonegro	TheFreim mmm, there are several options, did you look in your distro store?
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2021-06-24 19:04:22	TheFreim	I've found a lot of "bandwidth visualizers" but am still checking some to see if they have good logging so i can just let them sit and come back to them later, figured id ask since often times people around here will instantly know something that fits the need :)
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2021-06-24 19:04:48	TheFreim	ahh looks like vnstat might do the trick
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2021-06-24 19:12:41	Voxel	Hey all ^^
2021-06-24 19:12:46	TheFreim	Hi!
2021-06-24 19:12:47	Voxel	Interesting that shuf -i 30001-30000 -n 1
2021-06-24 19:12:52	Voxel	returns nothing
2021-06-24 19:13:14	Voxel	Like, if range from low to high differs by 1 and lower is higher, it returns nothing
2021-06-24 19:13:32	TheFreim	huh
2021-06-24 19:13:34	Voxel	302-300 would result in error
2021-06-24 19:13:52	Voxel	301-300 - nothing
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2021-06-24 19:17:32	Voxel	I mean. Interesting that `shuf -i 101-100 -n 1` returns nothing. Like, if the *low* range number is higher by 1 than the *high* number, the program returns nothing, while `102-100` results in an error and `100-100` returns `100` as expected.
2021-06-24 19:17:45	Voxel	Anyone knows why? ^^
2021-06-24 19:18:49	Voxel	Even its exit code is 0
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2021-06-24 19:19:28	Voxel	Looks like an ancient bug
2021-06-24 19:19:58	blackgatonegro	Eh, why is it a bug?
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2021-06-24 19:26:30	TJ-	Voxel: it's due to n_lines = hi_input - lo_input + 1; invalid |= ((lo_input <= hi_input) == (n_lines == 0));
2021-06-24 19:26:30	catman	your text: lo_input <= hi_input) == (n_lines == 0
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2021-06-24 19:27:36	TJ-	Voxel: so yes, a logic bug
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2021-06-24 19:30:41	Voxel	I see
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2021-06-24 19:30:50	Voxel	Thank you ^^
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2021-06-24 19:42:31	Guest0	Where are the ops
2021-06-24 19:42:38	Guest0	i wanna say why no woman op here
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2021-06-24 19:47:38	jim	Guest0, how do you know that?
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2021-06-24 19:54:58	goddard	damn literally bought a game yesterday that is now 50% off on steam
2021-06-24 19:54:59	goddard	damit
2021-06-24 19:55:16	Kyv	its like you wasted your money
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2021-06-24 19:55:28	goddard	precisely
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2021-06-24 19:57:35	johnnyapol	could try for the refund if you haven't played the 2 hours or whatever
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2021-06-24 20:01:37	neshpion	speedrun the game then refund it
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2021-06-24 20:02:23	neshpion	"b-but steam, for 90 minutes of those 2.5 hours i was on the toilet with the pause screen up"
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2021-06-24 20:02:34	Voxel	goddard, summer sale ^^
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2021-06-24 20:03:02	Voxel	Kyv, I wouldn't call that "wasted". The art is priceless anyways.
2021-06-24 20:03:25	Voxel	If some likes the masterpiece the developers made, why not pay a full price?
2021-06-24 20:03:35	Voxel	The price the developer requested.
2021-06-24 20:03:43	|Psycho|	what game it is anyway?
2021-06-24 20:03:58	Kyv	It doesnt sound like he was willing to pay full price, given the option.
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2021-06-24 20:04:09	Voxel	For example, I pre-purchase some masterpieces just in order to show appreciation to the developer.
2021-06-24 20:04:09	goddard	the developer is only instances of indie games probably and not commercial studios but I get your point
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2021-06-24 20:04:57	johnnyapol	im not sure if its on the summer sale, but Before Your Eyes is a great little game with a cool concept (controlling the game by blinking). Works fine in wine
2021-06-24 20:05:02	neshpion	well nobody held a gun to his head, so clearly he was willing to pay full price.  seeing a sale the day after, "what you could have paid", always triggers buyer's remorse and i don't know anyone who wouldn't admit this; it's like being on the price is right and seeing the fancy car behind door #2, and you go home with your toaster
2021-06-24 20:05:39	goddard	saving money is nice because then you can buy another game
2021-06-24 20:05:44	goddard	haha
2021-06-24 20:05:56	Kyv	Steam sales are not developers being sacrificed at Steam's altar in whatever the case, anyway.
2021-06-24 20:06:06	Voxel	Perhaps, but I disagree with that knowing how the development is hard
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2021-06-24 20:06:48	Voxel	Kyv, what do you mean?
2021-06-24 20:07:03	Kyv	neshpion: I didnt say he was willing to pay full price, he clearly did.
2021-06-24 20:07:13	Kyv	s/willing/unwilling
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2021-06-24 20:09:05	Kyv	Voxel: apart from initial pricing being factored into the sale scheme, often they are marked for sale on the basis of how much better they will do on selling massive quantities of copies of the game
2021-06-24 20:09:10	Kyv	vs full price
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2021-06-24 20:09:36	Voxel	Yup. Developers set their own sale prices. They choose either join the event or not.
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2021-06-24 20:10:07	Voxel	For example, I love how Factorio developer refuses to go on sale. I proud of that.
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2021-06-24 20:10:50	Voxel	I don't really understand the reason to go on sale except economic manipulations, so I usually just ignore and try to get products I love in full price.
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2021-06-24 20:11:16	rascul	it's probably not the developer though that makes such a decision unless it's literally a one man shop (factorio does not appear to be a one man shop)
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2021-06-24 20:11:44	Voxel	rascul, these are the developers or publishers. 1 min.
2021-06-24 20:11:44	rascul	s/man/person/
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2021-06-24 20:12:43	neshpion	if there were good statistics that showed me letting my game go on 50% sale would *more* than double the number of buyers i would get during that period, i would put it on sale
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2021-06-24 20:13:02	Kyv	I think they do set their own prices
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2021-06-24 20:13:49	Kyv	neshpion: it is Steam, they have data.
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2021-06-24 20:14:14	Voxel	rascul, https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/discounts
2021-06-24 20:14:37	Kyv	it is not like an unpredictable trend a game follows after release
2021-06-24 20:14:45	rascul	why would i care about steam's discount stuff?
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2021-06-24 20:14:57	Voxel	Steam is purely astronomically magnificent platform for a developer, anyway: https://partner.steamgames.com/
2021-06-24 20:15:05	Voxel	<3 Valve. <3 Steam.
2021-06-24 20:15:17	rascul	steam is garbage spyware for me
2021-06-24 20:15:24	Voxel	rascul, you said that developer doesn't choose their discount
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2021-06-24 20:15:34	rascul	i did say something like that
2021-06-24 20:15:34	Voxel	rascul, but why?
2021-06-24 20:15:35	|Psycho|	steam is a cancer for game developers
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2021-06-24 20:15:46	Voxel	|Psycho|, proof?
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2021-06-24 20:15:58	Voxel	I mean, it's so easy so hate
2021-06-24 20:16:01	rascul	your link doesn't show that the *developer* chooses the discount
2021-06-24 20:16:11	Kyv	New games which are surging in popularity aren't discounted nearly to the level of an older game which has waned or maybe some piece of crap goes for a buck and change.
2021-06-24 20:16:11	Voxel	rascul, why not?
2021-06-24 20:16:23	rascul	because it doesn't
2021-06-24 20:16:31	Voxel	Because you didn't read it?
2021-06-24 20:16:42	rascul	maybe you could cite the relevant part?
2021-06-24 20:16:43	|Psycho|	Voxel: It's not hate, your ignorance just makes you believe that
2021-06-24 20:16:58	|Psycho|	Go do some research
2021-06-24 20:17:16	Voxel	Ahah. That's what a troll would say.
2021-06-24 20:17:18	Voxel	Grow up.
2021-06-24 20:17:23	Voxel	rascul, quote: As always, this advice is generalized for a huge variety of products, developers, and customers, so take your own product and community into account when making decisions.
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2021-06-24 20:17:32	Voxel	From the page above.
2021-06-24 20:17:40	rascul	that doesn't show that the *developer* chooses the discount
2021-06-24 20:18:01	Voxel	That doesn't show that you're making a sandwitch today
2021-06-24 20:18:19	Voxel	Why the heck I even talking with you about that lol
2021-06-24 20:18:22	rascul	maybe we have differing definitions for "developer"
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2021-06-24 20:18:32	Voxel	It looks like you're bigots out there who don't care
2021-06-24 20:18:35	Kyv	It is like a concept of a 'loss leader' in a store. You get people to come in for one thing which is an awesome deal, and once they are in, the customer buys more, which more than negates the loss.
2021-06-24 20:18:43	Voxel	Welp, you live like that, not me ^^
2021-06-24 20:18:58	Voxel	I enjoy magnificent Steam and its community
2021-06-24 20:18:58	rascul	it appears as if you're getting upset because someone doesn't agree with you on the internet
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2021-06-24 20:19:12	Voxel	Not just enjoy, but participate and love that
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2021-06-24 20:19:32	Kyv	Those sales are how Steam users end up with 1,000 games they've not even played yet.
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2021-06-24 20:19:42	Kyv	They don't just hmm haw and buy the one game they wanted.
2021-06-24 20:19:46	Voxel	So, grow up and make your own stuff which would even make a facture of what the Steam does. Then talk.
2021-06-24 20:19:58	 *	rascul is grown up and does make his own stuff
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2021-06-24 20:20:12	Kyv	its true
2021-06-24 20:20:15	Kyv	he made a sandwich earlier
2021-06-24 20:20:24	Voxel	Komedi
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2021-06-24 20:21:50	Kyv	As far as I am concerned, Steam is just spyware, and I'm not going to buy DRM games.
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2021-06-24 20:22:04	Kyv	But their relationship with developers isnt really something I can criticize them on
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2021-06-24 20:22:16	Kyv	It seems like it is a perpetual reach-out program between the two.
2021-06-24 20:22:35	rascul	i don't want steam spying on my activity, i also find it to be a massive cpu hog, and very slow, and doesn't add any value to me
2021-06-24 20:22:54	rascul	the browsing and searching via steam i find very cumbersome and borderline unusable
2021-06-24 20:23:36	-->	betelgeuse (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) has joined #linux
2021-06-24 20:24:21	Kyv	that web browser though
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2021-06-24 20:25:15	rascul	the most annoying thing about steam, for me, is that some games *only* distribute via steam
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2021-06-24 20:26:24	mybalzitch	are you playing on a 486?
2021-06-24 20:26:41	Kyv	rascul: GoG does have a mechanism where you can redeem the code on certain Steam games
2021-06-24 20:26:57	Kyv	to get it stocked DRM-free from their library
2021-06-24 20:27:03	rascul	i do like gog
2021-06-24 20:27:19	Kyv	I cant remember the exact conditions
2021-06-24 20:27:34	rascul	probably isn't helpful for games that are only distributed via steam though
2021-06-24 20:27:38	Kyv	I only did it with the STALKER series which is pretty damn old anyway.
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2021-06-24 20:28:02	|Psycho|	Normally it's the other way around, people don't buy a game unless it's on Steam, that's why developers are forced to publish there and pay a 30% cut for a shitty advertising of their products
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2021-06-24 20:30:02	rascul	i'm unlikely to fall in "normal" categories as a general rule
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2021-06-24 20:33:03	|Psycho|	With a gazillion of new titles coming every day as a developer you are lucky if your game is highlighted for a couple of seconds
2021-06-24 20:33:25	|Psycho|	Fucking easy money for gabe newell
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2021-06-24 20:34:47	Kyv	When Steam had just started up, I remember I had a Half-Life on disc. It was a matter of time before everyone with it stuck the code into Steam and redeemed Half-Life online, along with like 10 other source engine spin-offs.
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2021-06-24 20:35:42	rascul	i played the original half-life demo and it didn't impress me enough to buy the game, and to this day i've not played any more half-life
2021-06-24 20:36:17	rascul	i may be missing out but i'm unlikely to every know
2021-06-24 20:36:17	Kyv	Day of Defeat was one of those games they gave you then
2021-06-24 20:36:25	Kyv	and it was damn good fun
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2021-06-24 20:36:49	Kyv	now the servers are probably just full of completely psychotic Russians
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2021-06-24 20:36:54	rascul	multi player only? i dislike those games
2021-06-24 20:38:00	Kyv	theyve been playing it for 20 years and know the ins and outs of every map and every play
2021-06-24 20:38:10	Kyv	probably hard to get your foot in the door these days!
2021-06-24 20:38:53	Kyv	rascul: yeah but there were so many single-player games in that pack
2021-06-24 20:39:19	rascul	i don't think i'm familiar with that pack
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2021-06-24 20:39:57	Kyv	It was all the early Valve titles and Half-Life spin-offs youve never heard of
2021-06-24 20:40:27	Khaytsus	Quack 3 was one of the first big Linux FPS's that I recall..  UT99 was there and worked but Quack 3 was newer, flashier.  I bought it.
2021-06-24 20:40:29	Kyv	like where you play the game from some other character's perspective
2021-06-24 20:40:38	Kyv	a cop or scientist or whatever
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2021-06-24 20:40:50	Khaytsus	I also bought UT 2003 or 2004..  forget which.  Really never liked it as much as UT99.
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2021-06-24 20:41:24	rascul	i played a bunch of ut 99 goty
2021-06-24 20:42:13	Khaytsus	I don't recall if I had GOTY officially or not, but really, GOTY was a bunch of patches in gold CD, w heree I had all of it installed locally anyway
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2021-06-24 20:42:32	Khaytsus	Seems like Mutators was one of the added things
2021-06-24 20:42:51	Khaytsus	Friend of mine LOVED the Mutator that set of a nuke when you died.
2021-06-24 20:43:16	Khaytsus	I preferred the Axe, forget what its name was...  fire power was like doubled.
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2021-06-24 20:43:33	Khaytsus	I still play it every so often
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2021-06-24 20:54:11	rascul	redemption i think was the nuke, and i think the axe was strength
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2021-06-24 21:00:37	byte4byte	jim how do i prevent flickering when calling XPutImage?
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2021-06-24 21:08:20	Kyv	weird I was just playing with nukemap
2021-06-24 21:08:34	 *	Kyv organizes redemption
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2021-06-24 21:10:28	 *	rascul redemptions Kyv's organizer
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2021-06-24 21:12:37	Gustavo6046	is it a bad idea to give simcity4 a lower nice if it is already eating CPU?
2021-06-24 21:12:44	Gustavo6046	I can't taskset it to multi cores without it crashing
2021-06-24 21:12:54	Gustavo6046	I wonder if taskset 0x5 (1st and 3rd) would be fine  since I use hyperthreading.
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2021-06-24 21:19:04	Gustavo6046	jim: if running an old game with multicore makes it prone to crashing, and 1 core is not, but I use hyperthreading, is setting affinity to 0x5 (0101, or 1st and '3rd') out of 1111 (all 4) via taskset going to make it less likely?
2021-06-24 21:19:06	--	drew` is now known as drew
2021-06-24 21:19:07	Gustavo6046	In this case SimCity 4.
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2021-06-24 21:57:14	puff	I need a dock for my thinkpad t580, running xubuntu.  I'm looking at stuff online and seeing that on linux the multiple video streams over USB-C is poorly supported.  Any0one had luck with those?
2021-06-24 21:57:51	neshpion	i have a single external monitor working over thunderbolt on my x1 extreme gen 2
2021-06-24 21:58:18	neshpion	maybe ##ibmthinkpad knows better than i
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2021-06-24 21:59:53	puff	neshpion: Thanks, I'll ask there.
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2021-06-24 22:00:35	sed	Hi I also asked this in the docker channel but anyone know why this keeps happening? https://dpaste.org/CAn0#L7,19
2021-06-24 22:00:45	Kyv	hm
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2021-06-24 22:01:19	ananke	sed: perhaps it's gone, thanks to docker's new policy on retention
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2021-06-24 22:01:44	sed	wait what is their new policy?
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2021-06-24 22:03:26	ananke	sed: they have it posted on their news/blogs/whatever. anyway, your digest checksum for python:3.9.5-alpine seems to be different than what's currently present
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2021-06-24 22:03:47	Kyv	sir, wait!
2021-06-24 22:04:01	ananke	when I run docker pull python:3.9.5-alpine, I get Digest: sha256:aded2e43ada04522e712ce507ce8a04392f8cbe047c914c5a88e4016a7141bd0
2021-06-24 22:05:12	 *	Kyv chases after pedestrian muttering about policy changes
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2021-06-24 22:05:17	Kyv	sir, wait!
2021-06-24 22:05:22	t1ck	hello guys
2021-06-24 22:05:48	t1ck	do you have a tip for me to learn how to use sed?
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2021-06-24 22:06:10	ananke	t1ck: yes. practice
2021-06-24 22:06:25	Kyv	learn regular expressions
2021-06-24 22:06:29	Kyv	practice on document
2021-06-24 22:06:30	Kyv	????
2021-06-24 22:06:32	t1ck	i find it really cryptic
2021-06-24 22:07:04	ananke	t1ck: so read the manual, or one of the millions of tutorials. practice. rinse & repeat
2021-06-24 22:07:08	puff	t1ck: regex is a language all its own.  I did most of my learning by looking at examples.
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2021-06-24 22:07:20	sed	hmm does that mean because i changed to 3.9.5 it is trying to find an older one like 3.9.1?
2021-06-24 22:07:22	Kyv	it tends to look that way when you dont know what characters mean in regex
2021-06-24 22:07:32	puff	t1ck: Unfortunately there are several dialects of regex, but you've picked sed so you only have to worry about the sed dialect.
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2021-06-24 22:07:57	t1ck	puff: ok i'll see what i can do
2021-06-24 22:08:00	puff	t1ck: This looks nice https://gist.github.com/ssstonebraker/6140154
2021-06-24 22:08:17	t1ck	puff: ok thanks
2021-06-24 22:08:35	curdlesnoot	t1ck: read the regex(7) man page, then read the posix sed documentation. both of these things are relatively digestible. worry about GNU extensions later.
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2021-06-24 22:08:50	sed	ananke how could i tell it is different? Should I revert back to an older python docker hub version?
2021-06-24 22:08:50	puff	t1ck: https://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/html_node/Regular-Expressions.html
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2021-06-24 22:09:06	curdlesnoot	t1ck: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/sed.html
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2021-06-24 22:09:36	t1ck	tnx guys
2021-06-24 22:09:49	ananke	frankly, 'learning' sed beyond few basic commands is kinda pointless. for day to day work simple search/replace satisfies 99% of the needs, and for the rest you just google
2021-06-24 22:10:07	ananke	sed: I don't know why your digest is different
2021-06-24 22:10:09	t1ck	i'll bookmark it and then set about this wonderful journey tomorrow morning
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2021-06-24 22:10:37	t1ck	ananke: i don't use google haha
2021-06-24 22:10:57	ananke	t1ck: well then, time to learn
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2021-06-24 22:11:12	ananke	we're not your gateway to a search engine
2021-06-24 22:11:14	t1ck	ananke: don't like google at all
2021-06-24 22:11:22	ananke	t1ck: that's your personal problem
2021-06-24 22:11:31	t1ck	ananke: i know
2021-06-24 22:11:37	tusko	yeah, that's your problem
2021-06-24 22:11:48	ananke	sed: I checked on a couple systems, and all of them get the same digest. have you tried pulling it again?
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2021-06-24 22:12:04	t1ck	ananke: i really care about my privacy on the internet
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2021-06-24 22:12:10	Kyv	use another search engine
2021-06-24 22:12:19	sed	i have tried building multiple times that dockerfile
2021-06-24 22:12:39	ananke	t1ck: are you daft on purpose, or is it natural? use whatever search engine suits you
2021-06-24 22:13:10	gry	t1ck: gnight,sleep tight
2021-06-24 22:13:12	puff	t1ck: Try duckduckgo then.
2021-06-24 22:13:15	Kyv	maybe he isnt so daft
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2021-06-24 22:13:21	ananke	sed: what happens when you run 'docker pull python:3.9.5-alpine', what digest do you get?
2021-06-24 22:13:22	Kyv	he did just get you guys to do it for him
2021-06-24 22:13:36	sed	ok let me try
2021-06-24 22:14:01	t1ck	there's nothing to do with it guys
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2021-06-24 22:14:35	t1ck	but ok
2021-06-24 22:14:36	curdlesnoot	nonsense. he asked for a tip on how to learn to use sed. there's nothing wrong with that, and it's not for the rest of the world to dictate which tools are worth learning or which search engine one should use.
2021-06-24 22:14:49	sed	sha256:aded2e43ada04522e712ce507ce8a04392f8cbe047c914c5a88e4016a7141bd0
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2021-06-24 22:15:04	sed	which one did you get?
2021-06-24 22:15:10	ananke	sed: ok, so the same one I got. yet your paste indicates a different one
2021-06-24 22:15:21	ananke	curdlesnoot: nobody is *dictating* anything
2021-06-24 22:15:40	t1ck	curdlesnoot: yeah, absolutely
2021-06-24 22:15:45	sed	ok strange
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2021-06-24 22:16:19	t1ck	didn't tell you to use the search engine i use
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2021-06-24 22:17:48	sed	could it be because it was from the base image?
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2021-06-24 22:17:54	sed	in that stage of the build?
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2021-06-24 22:19:41	ananke	sed: 'base' is an alias for 'python:3.9.5-alpine', as configured on line 11
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2021-06-24 22:20:25	sed	yes but then line 19 says i want to copy from base and that is where it fails
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2021-06-24 22:23:08	ananke	yes, which is odd, because it would imply problems with one of the images. I assumed it was complaining about base
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2021-06-24 22:23:25	ananke	and as a side note, a trimmed down version of that dockerfile builds just fine
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2021-06-24 22:24:11	ananke	sed: you may want to do a 'docker system prune', see if it's some residual problem
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2021-06-24 22:28:42	sed2	Sorry pc froze from the build
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2021-06-24 22:37:18	jim	Gustavo6046, I don't actually know how the affinity thing works... I got out of the video game thing when I realized that new video games need expensive hardware, and newer games might need (1) hardware that's more expensive, and/or (2) more hardware that's expensive...
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2021-06-24 22:45:18	Kyv	Why dont I hear much about Qutebrowser anymore?
2021-06-24 22:45:29	Kyv	Did something happen?
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2021-06-24 22:46:23	Kyv	Oh well, whatever.
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2021-06-24 22:46:47	twomoon	what is Qute?
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2021-06-24 22:47:01	Khaytsus	That's why
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2021-06-24 22:48:51	rs	As far as I know Qutebrowser is still alive. I use it daily.
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2021-06-24 22:51:07	Dagmar	jim: Well, at least with the Ethereum change it's likely they'll stop being made out of unobtainum soon
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2021-06-24 22:54:24	jim	damn I hope I don't catch etherium
2021-06-24 22:54:38	rascul	best to use a trap
2021-06-24 22:54:43	Gustavo6046	jim: oh, okay. re: affinity
2021-06-24 22:54:57	jim	Dagmar, what was the change in etherium?
2021-06-24 22:55:01	Gustavo6046	and yeah, newer games are very compute power consuming
2021-06-24 22:55:05	Gustavo6046	it's sad
2021-06-24 22:55:12	Gustavo6046	people forgot how to code
2021-06-24 22:55:21	rascul	i forgot how to code
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2021-06-24 22:55:34	Gustavo6046	or maybe companies have made coding way too easy at the cost of requiring massive, thick frameworks
2021-06-24 22:55:59	Gustavo6046	the kind that would actually crush you if you were to set a physical version on top of yourself
2021-06-24 22:56:31	Kyv	play Hotline Miami, or Invisible Inc.
2021-06-24 22:56:34	Kyv	or Papers, Please
2021-06-24 22:56:40	Kyv	or something
2021-06-24 22:56:42	Gustavo6046	those are indies
2021-06-24 22:56:46	Gustavo6046	Hotline Miami has a DOS version
2021-06-24 22:56:51	Gustavo6046	or was it another one
2021-06-24 22:56:53	Gustavo6046	I forgot
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2021-06-24 22:56:55	Gustavo6046	I think it was another one.
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2021-06-24 23:01:38	Dagmar	jim: They're going to be doing away with GPU mining.
2021-06-24 23:02:07	Dagmar	That will make it easier for people to use GPUs for what they were meant for... Unrestrained murder sprees.
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2021-06-24 23:03:41	hodapp	and deep learning.
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2021-06-24 23:04:21	hodapp	because I need to use the latest technique to make this model perform, uhhhhhhh, okay 0.25% worse than the state-of-the-art *but* in a cooler way
2021-06-24 23:04:49	Dagmar	Well, occasionally they figure out how to make computers hallucinate wildly, and that's kinda cool.
2021-06-24 23:05:02	Dagmar	Give it time and someone will convert the DeepMind code to run on AR goggles.
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2021-06-24 23:07:25	Dagmar	Gustavo6046: you're not wrong.  I just finished an entire timekeeping system and it weighs in at less lines total (including the stored procedures) than a number of popular frameworks.
2021-06-24 23:07:42	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:07:43	Dagmar	...and I write pretty verbose code because I don't want to be debugging grawlixes at 2am.
2021-06-24 23:07:48	Gustavo6046	Isn't Timekeeping
2021-06-24 23:07:50	Gustavo6046	er
2021-06-24 23:07:53	Gustavo6046	isn't timekeeping not very heavy?
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2021-06-24 23:08:04	Dagmar	 The UI is most of it.
2021-06-24 23:08:07	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:08:17	Gustavo6046	Did you use dear-imgui or something like that?
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2021-06-24 23:08:48	Dagmar	...and since managers are allowed to *edit* events, I had to put in a ton of sanity checks so no one could do things that would make the tallying up parts explode because a worker was in the same place twice at once or something equally insane.
2021-06-24 23:08:55	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:09:03	Dagmar	Just plain perl
2021-06-24 23:09:09	Gustavo6046	Ohhh.
2021-06-24 23:09:46	Dagmar	I'm half tempted to put some of the HTML-generation subroutings up on github tho
2021-06-24 23:10:48	Dagmar	...just because there's practically no middle ground between writing a bunch of print statements and importing Mojolicious
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2021-06-24 23:11:14	ahungry	create table minutes (worker_id, unix_time) primary key (worker_id, unix_time); -- ignore the fact that this would become insanely large, and it seems like a good solution to prevent time charting to two things at once :)
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2021-06-24 23:11:44	ahungry	60 entries per hour, what could go wrong
2021-06-24 23:11:45	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:11:52	Dagmar	There are over 100 physical facilities they work in, each worker is also working for one of many different employment agencies, etc etc
2021-06-24 23:11:55	itsmemoria	libera
2021-06-24 23:12:23	Dagmar	I will tell you this tho... Not putting clock in and clock outs in the same row is a fatal mistake.
2021-06-24 23:12:34	ahungry	ah, sounds like you need to track minutes on a distributed blockchain, so each 'minute' is represented by a unique transaction, then just get consensus among all locations before writing the record to chain
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2021-06-24 23:13:08	Dagmar	No point in doing that since they're *sigh* not requiring passwords
2021-06-24 23:13:19	Dagmar	..and people can freely backdate their times.
2021-06-24 23:13:33	Dagmar	I figure that will change after a few layer 9 incidents
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2021-06-24 23:14:19	Dagmar	A certain consulting firm that handles the work of that for regular employees is probably going to be pretty mad when they find out I built a better system than theirs in six months tho
2021-06-24 23:14:33	Dagmar	Well, theirs took six months to get running.  Mine took six weeks to write.
2021-06-24 23:15:07	Dagmar	Also, scaling it to 10,000+ users... not even hard.
2021-06-24 23:15:09	Dagmar	heh
2021-06-24 23:15:13	Sauvin	Dagmar, for what kind of company did you write this?
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2021-06-24 23:15:29	Dagmar	Medical clinics
2021-06-24 23:15:42	Gustavo6046	Did you unit test it?
2021-06-24 23:16:01	Dagmar	I've already written half of the unit tests because I hate finding my own bugs during whitebox testing
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2021-06-24 23:16:13	Gustavo6046	Imagine pair programming, except the pair simply writes tests.
2021-06-24 23:16:17	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:16:26	Dagmar	I've only been coding since I was lik 111,.
2021-06-24 23:16:34	Dagmar	er 11 years old.
2021-06-24 23:16:40	Gustavo6046	Ah.
2021-06-24 23:16:45	Sauvin	Yeah, there's going to be some "layer 9" problems if they're not requiring passwords and allowing for editing times/dates. Wonder what other dumbass policy decisions they might have made.
2021-06-24 23:17:03	Dagmar	Well, I made allowances for fixing those things in the design.
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2021-06-24 23:17:17	Sauvin	The things you can *foresee*, anyway.
2021-06-24 23:17:27	Dagmar	The funny thing was that after 20 years of Full Disclosure and Bugtraq reading, I know more about not f**king up with SQL than I know about SQl.
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2021-06-24 23:17:43	rascul	i'm not even 111 yet and i've been coding
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2021-06-24 23:17:52	Gustavo6046	^ lol
2021-06-24 23:17:53	Dagmar	The CEO commented about it being a shame security wasn't baked in from the start.
2021-06-24 23:17:57	Dagmar	My boss laughed.
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2021-06-24 23:18:11	Dagmar	Like, seriously, dude?
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2021-06-24 23:19:08	Dagmar	I almost considered switching to Java just because OO makes it a bit easier to do sanity checks
2021-06-24 23:19:22	Sauvin	You don't like perl OO?
2021-06-24 23:19:29	Dagmar	Not really, no.
2021-06-24 23:19:38	Dagmar	It's a little _too_ magical
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2021-06-24 23:19:49	Gustavo6046	rascul likes magics
2021-06-24 23:19:49	Sauvin	Examples?
2021-06-24 23:19:55	Dagmar	...and the language wasn't really designed for it.
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2021-06-24 23:20:27	Sauvin	Feh, "designed for it", feh. Neither was Pascal. Perl does it with references. I'm calling it an implementation detail.
2021-06-24 23:20:28	Dagmar	Having to write a ton of boilerplate, for one
2021-06-24 23:20:37	 *	rascul magics Gustavo6046
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2021-06-24 23:20:52	Dagmar	PLus we've already got enough fat arrow operators to stage a Chinese war movie
2021-06-24 23:21:09	 *	Sauvin falls out of his chair laughing
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2021-06-24 23:21:39	Dagmar	You->{know}->[$exactly} = { what => 'I'm talking about' };
2021-06-24 23:21:45	Sauvin	Yes, I do.
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2021-06-24 23:22:24	Sauvin	(note: => arrows were developed by the US DoD)
2021-06-24 23:23:16	Sauvin	I'll admit that languages that mostly use obj.memb and obj.method are a lot easier to read.
2021-06-24 23:23:42	Dagmar	Yeah
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2021-06-24 23:24:26	Dagmar	There's also "Tomcat is a nightmare" and "Even if perl's OO is magical, java's garbage collection is wildly more magical" and a side order of "Oracle would eventually come sniffing around with exortionate licencing claims"
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2021-06-24 23:26:38	Sauvin	I looked at Java briefly. My objection to it has nothing to do with Oracle and more to do with "wordy as hell"
2021-06-24 23:27:04	Dagmar	Well, it works really well with the way Android does it's virtualization, but...
2021-06-24 23:27:23	Dagmar	...and I might well have been doing something really obscure wrong... I had a serious problem for a while with initializers
2021-06-24 23:27:39	Dagmar	Sometimes classes can _keep_ their values after control has passed out of scope.
2021-06-24 23:28:01	Dagmar	I finally wound up using things like negative values as initializers.
2021-06-24 23:28:10	Dagmar	Literally just as a canary value.
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2021-06-24 23:29:02	Dagmar	My third language learned was assembly, so I am pretty aggressive about crawling around complex data structures, and Java's got sneaky little "weak references" just ready to drive people insane that way
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2021-06-24 23:29:43	Dagmar	They'er like throwing a box of forks at a car battery
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2021-06-24 23:36:21	drew	a systemd unit is starting up when my machine powers up, but I have disabled the service many times. Is there some other mechanism that might start a service other than enabling it?
2021-06-24 23:37:14	[[R]]	drew: how did you disable it?
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2021-06-24 23:39:28	mitsuda	services can be tied do different users
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2021-06-24 23:39:47	 *	Gustavo6046 is magiced by rascul
2021-06-24 23:39:47	mitsuda	maybe it's disabled for the root user but not yours?
2021-06-24 23:39:52	mitsuda	or something like that
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2021-06-24 23:42:42	drew	[[R]]: I did `sudo systemctl disable pihole-FTL`
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2021-06-24 23:43:10	[[R]]	and what does systemctl status pihole-FTL say?
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2021-06-24 23:44:45	drew	http://0x0.st/-pHJ.txt
2021-06-24 23:44:51	pnbeast	[[R]], you're an ftl pihole status.
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2021-06-24 23:45:20	[[R]]	🎶 faster than the speed of light... im flying...
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2021-06-24 23:46:46	drew	so it looks like it knows it's disabled but it is always running when I check after startup
2021-06-24 23:46:52	[[R]]	grep -r pihole-FTL /usr/lib/systemd/system /etc/systemd
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2021-06-24 23:49:32	drew	http://0x0.st/-pHy.txt
2021-06-24 23:50:24	[[R]]	grep -r pihole-FTL /run
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2021-06-24 23:51:32	drew	http://0x0.st/-pHt.txt
2021-06-24 23:51:47	drew	i did stop the service before grep'ing, I'm not sure if that was important to troubleshooting
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2021-06-24 23:53:31	[[R]]	systemctl list-dependencies
2021-06-24 23:53:40	[[R]]	well, it defintely should be running
2021-06-24 23:53:44	[[R]]	while testing these commands
2021-06-24 23:53:46	[[R]]	if its not running anymore
2021-06-24 23:54:03	[[R]]	but it has to be started automatically, dont manually start it now if you've stopped it
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2021-06-25 00:03:06	curdlesnoot	drew: systemctl --reverse --all list-dependencies pihole-FTL
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2021-06-25 00:03:41	curdlesnoot	(probably more useful with --reverse in this case)
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2021-06-25 00:36:11	drew	here is systemctl --reverse --all list-dependencies pihole-FTL http://0x0.st/-pHC.txt
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2021-06-25 00:36:21	drew	sorry that took a bit, keyboard is acting up
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2021-06-25 00:43:51	curdlesnoot	hmm. doesn't look like it's actually disabled then. that's curious because the information from earlier showed that it was.
2021-06-25 00:44:11	curdlesnoot	if you disable it now then check the deps again, does it appear differently?
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2021-06-25 00:45:33	drew	I had run `systemctl disable pihole-FTL` before running the list-dependencies command, so I think that's what you get
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2021-06-25 00:48:54	mlu	drew: nice pinhole :)
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2021-06-25 00:50:25	curdlesnoot	drew: I'm puzzled. having disabled it, I would expect for no reverse dependents to be shown now. or, even if they were, not for multi-user.target to be the one.
2021-06-25 00:50:29	curdlesnoot	not sure what's going on there.
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2021-06-25 00:50:37	Hanumaan	How to mount encrypted home partition through fstab?
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2021-06-25 00:53:15	drew	I'll try fiddling around with it. It could be cruft from some systemd problems I was having earlier today
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2021-06-25 00:54:59	drew	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pi-hole#Pi-hole_server
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2021-06-25 00:55:10	drew	"pihole-FTL.service is statically enabled"
2021-06-25 00:55:17	drew	could that be what that means?
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2021-06-25 00:58:36	 *	rindolf just uses noscript.net and isnt bothered by ads'
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2021-06-25 01:04:27	HaMsTeRs	is there anyway to debloat my ubuntu? those backgorund apps generated traffics freaks me out and make me feels very very uncomfortable.
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2021-06-25 01:05:16	[[R]]	HaMsTeRs: what background apps?
2021-06-25 01:05:40	HaMsTeRs	like check for updates, checking time sync etc..
2021-06-25 01:05:50	HaMsTeRs	also spotlight or smoethign generates somethinbg
2021-06-25 01:05:57	[[R]]	spotlight or something?
2021-06-25 01:06:03	HaMsTeRs	and something generates something.
2021-06-25 01:06:07	[[R]]	something...
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2021-06-25 01:06:16	HaMsTeRs	you know, the icon with a lightbulb
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2021-06-25 01:06:22	HaMsTeRs	like auto dim things
2021-06-25 01:06:26	Kyv	you can tear ubuntu down to almost nothing
2021-06-25 01:06:34	Kyv	but you'll probably be happier just installing another distro
2021-06-25 01:06:36	rindolf	HaMsTeRs: there are ways
2021-06-25 01:06:49	Kyv	that isnt such a sweaty pig
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2021-06-25 01:07:01	[[R]]	lightbulb?
2021-06-25 01:07:07	curdlesnoot	drew: well, that seems related. apparently, static units are neither to be enabled nor disabled. they're just there and are started if something else wants them. that doesn't explain the unsatifactory result of trying to identify the reverese dependent, though.
2021-06-25 01:07:16	Kyv	redshift?
2021-06-25 01:07:22	HaMsTeRs	i used to use arch.  when my arch box starts up, there is zero packets.  I know which process/program generates what packet... and I knows everything about it
2021-06-25 01:07:23	Kyv	the color temperature thing
2021-06-25 01:07:30	curdlesnoot	drew: I suppose you could use "mask" instead of disable, then.
2021-06-25 01:07:37	Bashing-om	HaMsTeRs: Consider installing something like unto https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ .
2021-06-25 01:07:42	HaMsTeRs	but i can't use arch on this machine
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2021-06-25 01:08:07	drew	weird
2021-06-25 01:08:10	HaMsTeRs	thx Bashing-om
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2021-06-25 01:08:28	HaMsTeRs	should i trust?
2021-06-25 01:08:28	Kyv	redshift you can just remove if you dont want it
2021-06-25 01:08:34	HaMsTeRs	yes yes.. redshift
2021-06-25 01:08:40	HaMsTeRs	that's what i'm trying to say
2021-06-25 01:08:50	HaMsTeRs	that's just an example. i already removed it
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2021-06-25 01:09:18	HaMsTeRs	like there's a bunch more things like that hidden behind my de
2021-06-25 01:09:33	[[R]]	so switch your de
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2021-06-25 01:09:59	HaMsTeRs	I'd already switched from Gnome to KDE
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2021-06-25 01:10:10	HaMsTeRs	and removed plenty of bloated apps
2021-06-25 01:10:16	HaMsTeRs	but still got plenty
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2021-06-25 01:11:25	Kyv	if you dont know what is required for base functioning or not, I mean all you can really do is go through it bit by bit and follow the dependency dogleash
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2021-06-25 01:11:49	Kyv	if you have synaptic installed that could make it a bit easier I guess
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2021-06-25 01:12:22	mlu	woof woof
2021-06-25 01:12:33	Kyv	bad dog
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2021-06-25 01:13:29	curdlesnoot	HaMsTeRs: if that sort of thing bothers you, you might prefer the sort of distro where you build up rather than tear down. you might be able to take a similar approach with ubuntu by performing a minimal installation and explicitly installing that which you want but, still, you must be on your guard for opinionated packaging decisions.
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2021-06-25 01:13:45	HaMsTeRs	the thing comes with an app called "Discover", and yes it discovered apps but not all.  like some apps I installed via dpkg -i wouldnt show
2021-06-25 01:13:59	Kyv	tearing it down is about as good a learning experience as you get on ubuntu though.
2021-06-25 01:14:19	curdlesnoot	taking redshift as an example, gnome definitely does not require that. though, it does have its own redshift-like service which might be trying to geolocate you if you use it (never checked that one).
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2021-06-25 01:15:13	curdlesnoot	Kyv: if the goal is to plug percieved leaks for the exact distro in question, yes. for others, it might just be considered a chore.
2021-06-25 01:15:23	curdlesnoot	different folks, different strokes.
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2021-06-25 01:16:48	Kyv	I already said what you suggested
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2021-06-25 01:17:31	Kyv	that doesnt seem to be an option
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2021-06-25 01:18:13	HaMsTeRs	well, one sad thing:  Because my other laptop got hardware failure, so I quickly rebuilt this one under a this full bloated DE.  I spend hours reinstall all my tools.  Once completed, and set down start enjoying my work, I then found many suspecious traffics floating around
2021-06-25 01:18:27	curdlesnoot	Kyv: granted, your suggestion accorded with one of what was, in fact, two approaches that I mentioned. that aside, I don't need anyone's permission in particular to offer my perspective.
2021-06-25 01:18:37	HaMsTeRs	so I want to stop all those traffics unless I know what it does.
2021-06-25 01:18:44	HaMsTeRs	this is the main reason I switch from Windows to Linux
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2021-06-25 01:19:01	Kyv	curdlesnoot: no one said you did.
2021-06-25 01:19:02	HaMsTeRs	those traffics...  those suspecious traffics...  those fxcking traffics...
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2021-06-25 01:19:24	JohnDoe2	HaMsTeRs sounds like you might enjoy getting bothered with questions by opensnitch
2021-06-25 01:19:36	HaMsTeRs	i got no time to inspect each packet nor destination one by one
2021-06-25 01:19:38	HaMsTeRs	:D
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2021-06-25 01:19:52	ionface	netstat -anp
2021-06-25 01:20:09	curdlesnoot	the point is, there distros out there where it's very easy to bootstrap, say, a minimal gnome - even without the full suite of gnome apps and services/units - and without a bunch of packages that the vendor deemed useful. they might not be for everyone but they exist.
2021-06-25 01:20:44	HaMsTeRs	i used to use: ss -Hpant state established state syn-sent state syn-recv and export to a *.log file thou
2021-06-25 01:21:00	HaMsTeRs	never know such thing with nice ui (opensnitch)
2021-06-25 01:21:29	 *	[[R]] gives curdlesnoot a bootstrap
2021-06-25 01:21:57	curdlesnoot	there are methods to tighten up gnome, for that matter. some of them are described here: https://eklitzke.org/lobotomizing-gnome
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2021-06-25 01:22:55	curdlesnoot	[[R]]: thanks. I use boots. always nice to have a spare one lying around.
2021-06-25 01:23:06	ionface	it's pretty simple to run multiple WM/DEs just to try them out, and see what you like, depending on the distribution
2021-06-25 01:23:30	HaMsTeRs	I think I'll have to spend some hours to first strip and black list all weird loaded modules (like this is a company computer, I definitely would disable Mic and Webcam)
2021-06-25 01:23:50	HaMsTeRs	then strip the daemons and autorun apps
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2021-06-25 01:24:30	curdlesnoot	as noted by the above article, gnome makes use of user-scoped units to implement some of these "daemons".
2021-06-25 01:24:34	curdlesnoot	systemd units, I mean.
2021-06-25 01:24:48	[[R]]	curdlesnoot: you're a demon
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2021-06-25 01:28:33	HaMsTeRs	is there a standard list of modules required to boot up a machine?  simple things like I would be able to get into KDE from start?
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2021-06-25 01:29:14	curdlesnoot	not as such.
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2021-06-25 01:29:30	HaMsTeRs	I lsmod and modinfo -d on each modules, and I found nothing useful from the descriptions.  like is there anythng I could easiliy understand what the module does with meaningful descriptions without googling one by one
2021-06-25 01:29:37	mlu	HaMsTeRs: no -- it's different for each machine
2021-06-25 01:30:16	mlu	HaMsTeRs: to begin, you need the modules for your disk drives and the file systems that you are booting from
2021-06-25 01:30:17	curdlesnoot	HaMsTeRs: once booted, "lspci -k" helps to connect the dots for the ones that drive (some) of your hardware, at least.
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2021-06-25 01:31:15	curdlesnoot	HaMsTeRs: beyond that, you might want to unpack some kernel sources and search for matching options, each of which has a little help explaining what they do.
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2021-06-25 01:31:32	mlu	in practice, disk space is cheap: most Linux distros just build in enough to load your filesystem drivers and then have modules lying around for almost everything you can possibly need
2021-06-25 01:31:33	curdlesnoot	often the module names are similar to these options.
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2021-06-25 01:33:33	curdlesnoot	random example: taking "iTCO_wdt" from my list of loaded modules, using that as a search term takes me straight to the option for Intel TCO Timer/Watchdog", after running `make menuconfig` and tapping / to search.
2021-06-25 01:34:17	curdlesnoot	pressing ? then brings up a little information on what it is, or what it's for.
2021-06-25 01:35:00	curdlesnoot	or, you could trawl through the "Kconfig" files yourself to collect that same information.
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2021-06-25 01:36:37	curdlesnoot	as mlu states, though, there's no standard list of modules that's going to be needed by every machine in existence.
2021-06-25 01:37:01	HaMsTeRs	thanks mlu: lspci -k is a good way to start
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2021-06-25 01:37:22	curdlesnoot	you're welcome :p
2021-06-25 01:37:26	HaMsTeRs	lsusb -k
2021-06-25 01:37:29	HaMsTeRs	woops
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2021-06-25 03:15:23	pyzozord	hey I just did apt update and I'm getting error Err:8 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease The following signatures were invalid
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2021-06-25 03:16:05	gry	do you use skype?
2021-06-25 03:16:06	pyzozord	what does this mean?
2021-06-25 03:16:11	pyzozord	gry: yes
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2021-06-25 03:17:59	frostwork	pyzozord, https://askubuntu.com/questions/1347851/why-isnt-apt-full-upgrade-getting-an-updated-software-key-signature-for-skype
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2021-06-25 03:18:41	ThinkT510	skype is available as a snap
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2021-06-25 03:19:32	pyzozord	frostwork: thanks that worked
2021-06-25 03:19:42	frostwork	nice
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2021-06-25 03:33:55	node1	Hi
2021-06-25 03:34:01	matsaman	hi node
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2021-06-25 03:36:39	node1	What is the reason of failing DHCP lease in openvpn https://pastebin.com/raw/tY7q8izB ?
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2021-06-25 03:40:15	RayTracer	would one dhclient be sufficient for tap0? are the others getting into the way?
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2021-06-25 03:43:01	node1	one would be sifficent.
2021-06-25 03:43:20	node1	RayTracer, What do you mean other getting into the way?
2021-06-25 03:43:32	talismanick	How can I circumvent YouTube's age-related sign-in requirements? It used to be that both Invidious and youtube-dl did so, but evidently no more
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2021-06-25 03:45:31	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-06-25 03:45:31	--	Mode #linux [-bo *!*@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be litharge] by litharge
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2021-06-25 03:46:51	RayTracer	node1: there are three dhclient processes, I wonder if this is correct or if this could cause trouble. Whenever there are multiple processes running for accomplishing one task, there is potential for conflict / races
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2021-06-25 03:47:29	node1	okay, but i have kill all the tap0 process and started a fresh
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2021-06-25 03:48:01	RayTracer	and now it works?
2021-06-25 03:48:06	node1	But still it's not working.
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2021-06-25 03:56:49	ackyshake	talismanick: I use ytprivate, which I think is based on Invidious. It seems to work for me and no ads either. It's a little slow though. Google has started asking people to upload their driver licenses in order to verify their ages which is just gross.
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2021-06-25 04:06:04	no_gravity	Is there a good way to get the amount of free disk space for / as a simple integer number?
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2021-06-25 04:06:50	Helmholtz1	Least hassle-free way of getting current bandwidth?
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2021-06-25 04:06:53	node1	It shows in percentage. df -Th .
2021-06-25 04:07:32	no_gravity	node1: The number in just "df" is already fine for my purpose. But it shows all this other stuff. I just need a number.
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2021-06-25 04:08:08	node1	parse it with sed and awk
2021-06-25 04:08:17	RayTracer	df --output=avail / | tail -n -1
2021-06-25 04:08:22	no_gravity	node1: That is an option. I was hoping there was a more direct way.
2021-06-25 04:08:28	node1	ok
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2021-06-25 04:09:06	no_gravity	RayTracer: Yay! You are god! Thank you!
2021-06-25 04:09:14	node1	Helmholtz1, You mean TX and RX value?
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2021-06-25 04:09:21	Helmholtz1	node1, yes
2021-06-25 04:09:39	Helmholtz1	I'm ok with external commands like nmcli or anything
2021-06-25 04:10:02	Helmholtz1	oh damn, I should have said most hassle-free
2021-06-25 04:10:03	node1	Helmholtz1, Use `netstat -i`
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2021-06-25 04:10:20	node1	source https://tldp.org/LDP/nag2/x-087-2-iface.netstat.html
2021-06-25 04:10:28	Helmholtz1	node1, nice..still have to parse it
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2021-06-25 04:10:41	Helmholtz1	and convert units to KiB, MiB
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2021-06-25 04:11:17	node1	Yes awk is best to deal with Parsing with computation work.
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2021-06-25 04:16:09	jmcantre2	Is there any way to get xterm to pass along stdin to its -e? This works as expected if i take xterm out of the equation: echo foo | xterm -e vim - +"file foo.txt"
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2021-06-25 04:22:00	trbp	jmcantre2: that should be default, iirc?
2021-06-25 04:22:04	mitsuda	>using xterm
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2021-06-25 04:22:40	trbp	but to push that echo foo into it could be tricky, at least not that way you did it should be in the instance of the -e
2021-06-25 04:23:02	jmcantre2	trbp: that's what i thought, but for some reason vim doesn't get what's being piped
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2021-06-25 04:23:38	trbp	yes because that pipe is kinda nonsense the xterm is in the context of the push but the -e is a child of that context so to speak
2021-06-25 04:23:43	trbp	so it fails
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2021-06-25 04:23:50	HaMsTeRs	Hi all, i'm trying to run arch contain inside ubuntu.  when I use systemctl, it said it's not the init it's using. am I doing anything wrong?  thanks
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2021-06-25 04:24:13	trbp	but if you just make a plain xterm -e vim you will see xterm should by default take the sdtin for it's -e child
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2021-06-25 04:25:11	b0b	Helmholtz1: iftop
2021-06-25 04:25:23	jmcantre2	trbp: it doesn't as far as i can tell
2021-06-25 04:25:54	Helmholtz1	b0b, does it provide RX/TX in proper way (like if suitable KiB/s or MiB/s)?
2021-06-25 04:26:17	trusch	Helmholtz1: you should have a look at "glances -b"
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2021-06-25 04:26:23	trbp	jmcantre2: ? what happens with an plain xterm -e vim?
2021-06-25 04:26:34	jmcantre2	this doesn't work: echo foo | xterm -e cat
2021-06-25 04:26:37	Helmholtz1	trusch, I have that...it's a generic system info
2021-06-25 04:26:40	Helmholtz1	written in python
2021-06-25 04:27:01	jmcantre2	trbp: it opens vim in xterm
2021-06-25 04:27:17	trbp	jmcantre2: that is again another example of your initial one, you are mixing child instances with parent ones so to speak
2021-06-25 04:27:36	trbp	jmcantre2: and you should be able to use that vim simple as on any term
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2021-06-25 04:27:54	b0b	Helmholtz1: yes, it scales dynamically
2021-06-25 04:27:55	trbp	hence it by standard forwards stdin to it's -e
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2021-06-25 04:28:17	jmcantre2	trbp: the problem is not opening vim in xterm, it's getting something into that vim process via its stdin
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2021-06-25 04:28:49	geirha	you'd have to set up a named pipe or something to achieve that. xterm will ignore whatever you pass to its stdin
2021-06-25 04:28:56	jmcantre2	trbp: yet it doesn't
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2021-06-25 04:29:24	earendel	should it be forwared to xterm or to vim?
2021-06-25 04:29:28	jmcantre2	geirha: that at least explains what i'm seeing
2021-06-25 04:29:48	jmcantre2	earendel: good point
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2021-06-25 04:30:22	geirha	mkfifo fifo; xterm -e bash -c 'vim - < fifo' & echo foo > fifo
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2021-06-25 04:31:11	mitsuda	HaMsTeRs: are you on the installation environment?
2021-06-25 04:31:12	jmcantre2	geirha: neat!
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2021-06-25 04:33:15	HaMsTeRs	mitsuda: I attached to the container and then installed openssh.  what i'm trying to do is to enable sshd
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2021-06-25 04:35:42	mitsuda	HaMsTeRs: oh containers, thought it was VM, sorry
2021-06-25 04:35:43	earendel	cool. trying to think if it would be possible to open that part of the script that forwards that stuff in xterm ..
2021-06-25 04:36:24	HaMsTeRs	mitsuda: thanks for helping
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2021-06-25 04:39:32	earendel	but otherways.. there's reason for that dbus  thingies to have been invented? and/or how do processes    in desktop environment communicate with each other.
2021-06-25 04:40:26	earendel	geirha: would that socket? need to be cleaned up?
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2021-06-25 04:41:22	geirha	not a socket, but yes, you'll likely want to delete it after
2021-06-25 04:41:56	geirha	I'd create a tempdir to put it in, then remove the whole dir on exit
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2021-06-25 04:42:15	earendel	is that usually done by creating it in the tmpdirectory or so?
2021-06-25 04:42:18	geirha	tmpdir=$(mktemp -d) && trap 'rm -rf "$tmpdir"' EXIT || exit; mkfifo "$tmpdir/fifo" ...
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2021-06-25 04:42:27	earendel	k
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2021-06-25 04:43:42	geirha	that's assuming bash, since bash will run the EXIT trap both for "normal" exit and when dieing from a signal. You can't rely on that in sh
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2021-06-25 05:15:17	zamba	hi! i want to set up 2fa only for sudo activities.. how can i do that through pam?
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2021-06-25 05:19:17	DLange	Edit your /etc/pam.d/sudo file to include what you need for your choosen 2fa method
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2021-06-25 05:19:53	zamba	yeah, that's what i've attempted to do.. i'm prompted for the second factor.. i get "Success. Logging you in..." and then "Sorry, try again"
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2021-06-25 05:20:39	zamba	i believe i just don't understand what i need to replace/delete from the /etc/pam.d/sudo file
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2021-06-25 05:20:51	DLange	yeah, pam is not for the faint of heart
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2021-06-25 05:21:06	zamba	this is how it looks currently: https://dpaste.org/m8UX
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2021-06-25 05:21:48	DLange	there's no 2fa request line in your paste
2021-06-25 05:21:55	zamba	yeah, that is the original file
2021-06-25 05:22:35	zamba	ah!
2021-06-25 05:22:44	zamba	got it working like this: auth sufficient /lib64/security/pam_duo.so
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2021-06-25 05:24:25	DLange	if that's not the last line, "sufficient" will cut off anything below
2021-06-25 05:24:41	DLange	probably "required" is what you want
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2021-06-25 05:26:06	zamba	well, it works now with sufficient
2021-06-25 05:26:11	zamba	with required it failed
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2021-06-25 05:26:51	zamba	ah, no.. it works with required as well :)
2021-06-25 05:27:15	DLange	technology is amazing at times...
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2021-06-25 05:28:21	kirk781	I solved it. xinitrc now works when I removed any display manager. xscreensaver for locking the screen and command line seems good
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2021-06-25 05:28:40	kirk781	I meant, login manager
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2021-06-25 05:32:52	Kyv	it is actually called a display manager
2021-06-25 05:32:57	Kyv	though it shouldnt be
2021-06-25 05:33:36	kirk781	Ah, I was correct in the first place and then got it wrong :p
2021-06-25 05:33:53	Kyv	you were right twice, the way I see it
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2021-06-25 05:34:47	Kyv	good you got it sorted though
2021-06-25 05:35:05	Kyv	its a lot nicer to use startx
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2021-06-25 05:41:59	alterjsive	does anyone know how to remote connect to a HP ILO3 remote console? I have the flu and don't want to spend to much time in my server room. Rather work from my bed :)
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2021-06-25 05:47:12	MrElendig	hp customer support dopes
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2021-06-25 05:47:23	RayTracer	you probably use a browser
2021-06-25 05:47:34	MrElendig	protip: use a vpn, don't expose it directly to the internet
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2021-06-25 05:48:00	MrElendig	https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=emr_na-c02774507
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2021-06-25 05:56:30	alterjsive2	sorry lost connection there
2021-06-25 05:56:47	alterjsive2	yeah ILO3 remote console needs some ancient java support
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2021-06-25 06:01:03	jelly	alterjsive2, iLO3 ought to have some support via android app
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2021-06-25 06:01:51	jelly	if not, it might be easier for you to get hold of IE11 with ActiveX instead of a browser with Java applet support
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2021-06-25 06:03:53	jelly	but yes, NEVER put iLO iface on public internet directly, it's going to get pwned soon
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2021-06-25 06:07:13	Helmholtz1	find . -type f -iname "*.json" How to remove the initaial ./
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2021-06-25 06:07:19	Helmholtz1	I want a replacement for ls
2021-06-25 06:07:37	MrElendig	Helmholtz1: -printf
2021-06-25 06:07:40	MrElendig	etc
2021-06-25 06:07:41	alterjsive2	jelly: thx, yeah maybe I can use wine for that
2021-06-25 06:07:55	MrElendig	also smells like a xyproblem
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2021-06-25 06:09:10	HaMsTeRs	64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=27750 ms
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2021-06-25 06:10:11	Helmholtz1	MrElendig, thanks -printf '%f\n'
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2021-06-25 06:14:57	jelly	alterjsive, I'd go with a separate windows 7 VM or similar; if stuff doesn't work with wine you never know if it's wine itself or the app or whatever
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2021-06-25 06:16:48	TheSilentLink	do you need to defrag an ext4 hard rive?
2021-06-25 06:16:50	TheSilentLink	drive*
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2021-06-25 06:17:57	Lartza	No
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2021-06-25 06:18:21	Lartza	An ext4 filesystem will only fragment when it gets really full (90+%)
2021-06-25 06:18:38	TheSilentLink	cause this hard drive is awfully slow in some games. I think it is failing but I'm not sure S.M.A.R.T doesn't tell me much either
2021-06-25 06:18:53	TheSilentLink	Lartza: it is 90% full
2021-06-25 06:19:11	TheSilentLink	90%+
2021-06-25 06:19:14	Lartza	I mean that's hardly a great benchmarks, HDDs are slow
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2021-06-25 06:20:08	TheSilentLink	but a game from 2013 that can run fine on a PS3 stutters and freezes with 100% disk usage on my hard drive doesn't seem normal. Unless the PC port is awfully coded
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2021-06-25 06:31:07	haroon	Hello can someone tell me how I can prevent sudo access to specific files? I tried  "!sudoedit /path/file" and negating editors "!/bin/nano". However I can just copy nano into my home folder and use that to edit the file. Is it even possible what I want to do? I have read the sudoers documentation, but couldn't find anything related to my issue.
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2021-06-25 06:31:55	selckin	probably not possible
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2021-06-25 06:33:29	SkunkyLaptop	haroon: sudo makes you root, as root you can do anything
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2021-06-25 06:33:48	SkunkyLaptop	haroon: if you don't want people doing things as root, don't give them sudo access.
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2021-06-25 06:38:40	haroon	I want them to do root thing, but I want to be prepared, if the account gets compromised
2021-06-25 06:40:00	SkunkyLaptop	haroon: yeah that's not how you're supposed to do things.  you're supposed to restrict them to specific tasks that have to be root to do
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2021-06-25 06:42:17	haroon	I understand the sentiment, but the issue is, that they are also admins and the access needed to files is dynamic. I just don't want them to edit the sudoers files.
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2021-06-25 06:44:46	RayTracer	TheSilentLink: it seems "e4defrag -c" tells if defrag is needed or not
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2021-06-25 06:46:56	trusch	harold: wild idea, please tell me what wrong about it: wouldnt it be possible to create a unix socket at /etc/sudoers that returns the content you want on read, but discards all writes?
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2021-06-25 06:50:34	trusch	harold: not a unix socket, I meant a named pipe. Something that looks like a file, but where you control read and write
2021-06-25 06:50:47	RayTracer	trusch: haroon left, but I challenge the goal - if you don't trust your admins, don't employ them
2021-06-25 06:51:13	trusch	RayTracer: oh, thanks, I missed that
2021-06-25 06:51:33	RayTracer	trusch: on the technical track, if you are already able to confine them, you could just chattr +i the file
2021-06-25 06:51:36	trusch	Thats for sure, if you don't can trust your admin, you're lost
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2021-06-25 06:52:09	trusch	RayTracer: right, that would be the most straight forward solution I guess
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2021-06-25 06:55:20	Helmholtz1	Does find have a switch to order based on filesize?
2021-06-25 06:59:16	MrElendig	| sort
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2021-06-25 07:12:01	zamba	where is the partition table written on a disk these days?
2021-06-25 07:12:06	zamba	beginning or end?
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2021-06-25 07:13:31	MrElendig	both
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2021-06-25 07:13:49	MrElendig	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table
2021-06-25 07:14:10	MrElendig	I assume you are not living in 2004 and using ms-dos style partition tables
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2021-06-25 07:16:16	zamba	what i want to accomplish is clone a physical machine to a virtual one.. but i don't want to clone over all partitions, i want to omit /home
2021-06-25 07:16:16	akik	let's stop the age shaming ok?
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2021-06-25 07:16:46	zamba	i attempted to list the partition tables and then stop 'dd' around the /home partition (as it's the last partition)
2021-06-25 07:16:52	MrElendig	zamba: do it on the fs level instead
2021-06-25 07:17:09	MrElendig	create partition table on the target, copy over the bits of the filesystem you want
2021-06-25 07:17:25	MrElendig	bonus point: you don't spend ages copying 2tb of empty space
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2021-06-25 07:19:06	jelly	do they have lots (>= 80%) of empty space?  If not that preemptive optimization might prove worse than dd
2021-06-25 07:19:13	MrElendig	if uefi then you can even do it without even having to touch the bootloader/fstab
2021-06-25 07:20:18	jelly	there are still lots of ways to skin that cat.  You can create new partitions and then block-copy each relevant partition separately
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2021-06-25 07:23:18	varaindemian	I wonder why the chrome instance is not killed when I rerun this piece of code: https://pastebin.com/kanHLDKZ
2021-06-25 07:23:32	varaindemian	is it because of the variables?
2021-06-25 07:23:40	varaindemian	I suspect they are not send globally
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2021-06-25 07:32:54	varaindemian	anyone?
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2021-06-25 07:36:19	phogg	varaindemian: what is the intended effect of this code?
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2021-06-25 07:37:05	varaindemian	phogg to kill the previously opened window that that has the name of that argument
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2021-06-25 07:37:34	phogg	are you trying to close the window? or kill its process?
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2021-06-25 07:38:19	varaindemian	phogg I want to kill only the process of that window OR to close the window
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2021-06-25 07:39:22	pycode	hello
2021-06-25 07:39:29	pycode	is anyone using vokoscreen?
2021-06-25 07:39:37	phogg	varaindemian: and you are doing this by window name? What name are you providing?
2021-06-25 07:39:41	pycode	i can record screen and mic but i also need the audio from headset
2021-06-25 07:39:45	pycode	is that possible somehow?
2021-06-25 07:40:14	varaindemian	phogg I provide the name of the argument `$2`
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2021-06-25 07:40:43	phogg	varaindemian: I can see that, but what value are you using as the second argument?
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2021-06-25 07:41:21	varaindemian	phogg the name of a monitor -> GPU-0.DP-0
2021-06-25 07:41:46	varaindemian	or something else GPU-2.DP-1
2021-06-25 07:41:47	varaindemian	 and so on
2021-06-25 07:43:13	phogg	varaindemian: that won't map to the name of any window
2021-06-25 07:43:28	varaindemian	phogg :(  why not?
2021-06-25 07:43:55	phogg	varaindemian: because the window isn't named GPU-0.DP-0, it's named something like "webpage <title> - Chromium" (probably)
2021-06-25 07:44:27	varaindemian	lol
2021-06-25 07:44:32	varaindemian	I was not aware of this
2021-06-25 07:44:55	varaindemian	and how can I map the window name to $2?
2021-06-25 07:45:08	phogg	varaindemian: by specifying it as the second argument
2021-06-25 07:45:27	phogg	varaindemian: you will also want to double quote the expansion e.g. "$2" since the window title is likely to contain spaces
2021-06-25 07:46:07	varaindemian	phogg can you show me what exactly should be modified?
2021-06-25 07:46:21	phogg	I guess... hang on
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2021-06-25 07:46:44	varaindemian	phogg so it has nothing to do with global vars
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2021-06-25 07:47:16	phogg	varaindemian: https://termbin.com/fxsp
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2021-06-25 07:47:32	phogg	varaindemian: I don't know what you mean about global variables.
2021-06-25 07:48:03	varaindemian	I thought $2 is only visible in my function somehow
2021-06-25 07:48:23	phogg	varaindemian: inside a script $2 is the second argument to the script. Inside a shell function $2 is the second argument to the function.
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2021-06-25 07:51:53	HumbleGuy	how to change in .patch/diff file to chose which file its going to modify
2021-06-25 07:51:54	HumbleGuy	 e.g ---i/file.c
2021-06-25 07:51:54	HumbleGuy	 +++w/file.c
2021-06-25 07:51:54	HumbleGuy	 i want to change the location
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2021-06-25 07:52:47	phogg	HumbleGuy: edit the top two lines
2021-06-25 07:52:53	peetaur	HumbleGuy: in the first lines it has the paths... and when you patch, you give it -p${num} of how many dirs to remove like 1 would remove old and new in old/somefile.c and new/somefile.c
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2021-06-25 07:54:23	varaindemian	phogg double quotes helped. now my problem is that once it reopens it it cannot display the actual page since I see that weird bubble in the top right corner: restore pages
2021-06-25 07:54:47	phogg	varaindemian: I don't know anything about chrome/chromium and how to control it, so you're on your own there.
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2021-06-25 07:56:00	varaindemian	maybe I can retrieve the process ID and then kill it?
2021-06-25 07:56:04	varaindemian	phogg
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2021-06-25 07:56:28	varaindemian	phogg like this: xdotool getactivewindow getwindowpid
2021-06-25 07:56:36	phogg	varaindemian: I certainly recommend it.
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2021-06-25 07:56:45	HumbleGuy	phogg, peetaur so where is w/file.c i just add w//home/user/sources/file2.c?
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2021-06-25 07:57:49	varaindemian	phogg in this case I need to export it globally so it will be available outside of my function?
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2021-06-25 07:58:23	varaindemian	phogg and then when I rerun the function it will kill the previously opened PID
2021-06-25 07:58:54	phogg	varaindemian: all shell variables are global by default (but you must give it a new name because this does not apply to positional parameters like $2)
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2021-06-25 07:59:08	peetaur	HumbleGuy: either make some dirs like they have there (cd somewhere where you see file.c) or set a path like that, yeah
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2021-06-25 07:59:33	HumbleGuy	ok thanks
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2021-06-25 08:00:16	phogg	varaindemian: also, you can get the focused window's pid without using xdotool: https://termbin.com/wg3q
2021-06-25 08:00:39	peetaur	HumbleGuy: normally you don't set a custom path... you have a plan about what your source tree looks like. for example in https://github.com/ceph/ceph you see the code is all beneath src/ and they are using git so your diffs will have like old/src/...  and you do your patch commands from the main dir where you see src
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2021-06-25 08:00:53	varaindemian	phogg yeah but at the same time it should be tied to the monitor name we were talking about earlier
2021-06-25 08:01:09	peetaur	so the path in the patch shouldn't have your homedir...but some subdir within the project dir
2021-06-25 08:01:09	phogg	varaindemian: what does the monitor name have to do with anything?
2021-06-25 08:01:28	varaindemian	phogg I want to close the window only on that particular monitor
2021-06-25 08:01:59	phogg	varaindemian: there is only one in-focus window across all monitors
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2021-06-25 08:03:23	varaindemian	and if I want to open a new one on another monitor?
2021-06-25 08:03:33	varaindemian	phogg then the wrong window will be closed
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2021-06-25 08:04:01	phogg	varaindemian: no? Where the new window opens is unrelated.
2021-06-25 08:04:15	varaindemian	phogg OR I can first change focus on that monitor, close the window and then open a new one :D
2021-06-25 08:04:28	rascul	why not move the window?
2021-06-25 08:04:29	phogg	varaindemian: it would be better to manually re-position the window of the new process and not rely on it happening to open in some particular place
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2021-06-25 08:04:53	phogg	as rascul says, do a window move after it appears
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2021-06-25 08:05:11	phogg	programs used to all understand an X-style -geometry option, but it's not common any more )-:
2021-06-25 08:05:14	varaindemian	yeah, but then how do I close it on that specific screen?
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2021-06-25 08:05:35	varaindemian	the easiest way would be to keep track of the PID
2021-06-25 08:05:39	phogg	varaindemian: I don't know why you keep bringing that up. A window only exists on one screen, it will close wherever it is
2021-06-25 08:07:12	varaindemian	phogg if a window is opened on a screen I want keep track of it on that screen. I don't wanna acccidentally close windows on the wrong screen
2021-06-25 08:07:39	phogg	varaindemian: you can't accidentally close the wrong window
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2021-06-25 08:08:26	phogg	varaindemian: the xdotool command (or the shell script I showed you) will return the pid of the window that is active. There is only one of those at a time across all monitors.
2021-06-25 08:08:40	varaindemian	phogg true. how do you close the window on a particular screen then?
2021-06-25 08:08:43	phogg	varaindemian: therefore as long as you are in focus on the window you want it will always close
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2021-06-25 08:08:58	phogg	varaindemian: you don't, the monitor it's on has no bearing on anything
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2021-06-25 08:09:18	varaindemian	but I want to do that
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2021-06-25 08:09:38	varaindemian	I want to close the window on a particular screen and then open a new one
2021-06-25 08:09:48	phogg	varaindemian: the screen *DOES NOT MATTER*
2021-06-25 08:09:59	phogg	you close the window *regardless* of which screen it's on
2021-06-25 08:10:15	phogg	if you want to close a window on a particular screen then you focus that window
2021-06-25 08:10:23	phogg	if you want to close one on another screen then you focus that window
2021-06-25 08:10:36	varaindemian	that's what I was saying earlier
2021-06-25 08:10:37	varaindemian	..
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2021-06-25 08:10:41	phogg	if you put the window in the middle so it spans two screens... if you focus it then you still close that window
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2021-06-25 08:10:59	phogg	The screen makes no difference. There is not "closing a window on a monitor", there is only closing a window.
2021-06-25 08:11:08	varaindemian	varaindemian
2021-06-25 08:11:09	varaindemian	15:04:15
2021-06-25 08:11:09	varaindemian	phogg OR I can first change focus on that monitor, close the window and then open a new one
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2021-06-25 08:11:43	phogg	varaindemian: yes, I never disagreed with that
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2021-06-25 08:12:03	phogg	varaindemian: if you then want to open a new window it may position itself anywhere--that's up to your window manager to decide
2021-06-25 08:12:17	phogg	varaindemian: if you want to be sure it is positioned in a specific location then execute a window move operation on it after it opens
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2021-06-25 08:12:23	fpombal	Hi, I have a machine with a very weak CPU. When doing any kind of TCP-based network transfer, the speed maxes out at about way short of the 1 Gbps the network interface and my network are rated for. I tested with iperf3 and got a maximum of about 450 Mbps with one connection, and 600 Mbps with 8 or more simultaneous connections. It seems the bottleneck is ksoftirqd pegging 1 core with soft
2021-06-25 08:12:25	fpombal	interrupts. How can I make my network interface use more than 1 core simultaneoudly for interrupt handling? Searching the web yielded this result, but there was no solution found https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50090945/only-one-cpu-core-handling-network-interrupts (and my machine is x86-64, not a raspberry pi anyway)
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2021-06-25 08:12:51	varaindemian	phogg how do I change focus to a window on a particular screen?
2021-06-25 08:12:58	fpombal	My NIC uses the "r8169" driver, if that helps
2021-06-25 08:13:00	varaindemian	can I do this with xdotool?
2021-06-25 08:13:03	phogg	varaindemian: xdotool can do that if you can identify the window somehow
2021-06-25 08:13:37	phogg	varaindemian: and, again, focus is not dependent on screen. You cannot say "focus this window *but only if it is on a specific screen*" unless you are using multiple X screens, which is not common
2021-06-25 08:13:56	phogg	e.g. DISPLAY=:-0.1 (if you have that you can specify screen, otherwise you can't)
2021-06-25 08:14:25	varaindemian	I have multiple monitors in an array
2021-06-25 08:14:29	varaindemian	6
2021-06-25 08:14:33	SkunkyLaptop	fpombal: look into the tcp offload settings for your card, with ethtool
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2021-06-25 08:15:10	phogg	varaindemian: are they mapped into a single X instance? Do you have them configured as a single screen, or multiple screen's in your xorg.conf?
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2021-06-25 08:15:29	varaindemian	where can I see this?
2021-06-25 08:15:45	varaindemian	they are on a single X instance I guess
2021-06-25 08:15:47	SkunkyLaptop	fpombal: in other words, you can't use more than 1 cpu for interrupts on a device.  but tcp offload can make your network card do more of the work
2021-06-25 08:15:53	phogg	varaindemian: if you didn't write your own xorg.conf by hand you likely have only one screen in an X sense. You can look in xorg.conf to find out.
2021-06-25 08:16:09	phogg	varaindemian: if you can drag a window between all of your monitors then it's one screen
2021-06-25 08:16:24	varaindemian	phogg I can do that
2021-06-25 08:16:46	phogg	varaindemian: right, then as I suspected you cannot specify screen
2021-06-25 08:17:12	phogg	varaindemian: it's just one big plane (possibly divided into areas by some window management shenanigans)
2021-06-25 08:17:25	phogg	or desks, the terminology varies
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2021-06-25 08:18:16	fpombal	SkunkyLaptop: here is the output of ethtool -k enp1s0 (which I assume is what you meant): https://termbin.com/d23d
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2021-06-25 08:19:36	phogg	varaindemian: you can run 'xprop -root' to get metadata that will reveal a lot of details about how your setup works
2021-06-25 08:19:38	varaindemian	phogg my problem changes wot keeping track when a particular argument was used for this function
2021-06-25 08:19:49	varaindemian	changes to*
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2021-06-25 08:21:03	phogg	varaindemian: I can't comment on that since I don't have the full picture of what your script looks like
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2021-06-25 08:21:34	varaindemian	phogg okay. I'll describe it once I;ll have good idea
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2021-06-25 08:22:19	varaindemian	phogg got disconnected
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2021-06-25 08:22:45	phogg	varaindemian: you didn't miss any messages
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2021-06-25 08:23:02	varaindemian	phogg alright
2021-06-25 08:23:26	fpombal	I suppose the interesting bits are TX and RX offloading? I appears one is off, the other is on. My speed issue occurs both when uploading and downloading to a similar (equal?) effect, so I'm not sure I'm better off with offloading, since it seems to offer no benefit in one of the cases
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2021-06-25 08:25:20	SkunkyLaptop	fpombal: turn it on, and see what it does to your performance.
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2021-06-25 08:30:24	varaindemian	phogg basically, I'll need the PID of this: `subprocess.run(["/var/videowall/pythong/./move.sh", request.form["link"], displays[int(request.form["display"])]])`
2021-06-25 08:30:32	varaindemian	phogg this is issued in Flask
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2021-06-25 08:30:52	phogg	I don't know anything about Python
2021-06-25 08:31:25	phogg	but you can move windows from python as well as from shell (even easier if there are libraries, which there probably are)
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2021-06-25 08:33:29	fpombal	SkunkyLaptop: just did, no performance gains. In fact, it seems that under heavy network load, the system now sometimes hangs for a bit, but I could not reproduce this latest issue consistently
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2021-06-25 08:37:15	varaindemian	phogg looking at the earlier piece of code https://pastebin.com/kanHLDKZ , I am thinking of modifying it and then exporting the PID of the window in a global var named after the param "$2". what do you think?
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2021-06-25 08:37:25	EdwardIII	i can say `ls *.md docs/**.md` and get back the results i want (markdown files in this dir, and nested deeply in the docs dir), but i get syntax errors if i try to do `for *.md docs/**.md`. is there something equivalent? or should i just use `find`?
2021-06-25 08:38:12	phogg	varaindemian: is that the entire script? If you want to "return" a pid value back to python you will need to print it
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2021-06-25 08:38:40	varaindemian	with echo?
2021-06-25 08:39:30	phogg	varaindemian: if you like, but printf is preferred: printf %s\\n "$value"
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2021-06-25 08:39:59	EdwardIII	ah duh sorry it DOES work with for, right? i think i just forgot 'do'
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2021-06-25 08:41:22	EdwardIII	yes that it was it sorry, stupid. here's what i'm doing just in case you're curious :) https://gist.github.com/EdwardIII/c95b4dc4df758491a1828abb1400590d
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2021-06-25 08:42:08	phogg	EdwardIII: zsh?
2021-06-25 08:42:26	phogg	you should be quoting expansions like "$file" (and also all of them)
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2021-06-25 08:42:34	EdwardIII	phogg: bash
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2021-06-25 08:43:39	EdwardIII	phogg: i found quoting them made it send in all the second batch of args as 1 argument which wasn't what i wanted, none of the files have spaces in so it works OK (it's just a one-off-ish batch job)
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2021-06-25 08:44:27	varaindemian	phogg https://pastebin.com/BNyJgmJN
2021-06-25 08:44:29	varaindemian	like this?
2021-06-25 08:44:33	phogg	EdwardIII: what second batch of args?
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2021-06-25 08:44:49	EdwardIII	ph
2021-06-25 08:44:53	phogg	varaindemian: no
2021-06-25 08:44:54	EdwardIII	phogg: one sec, i will illustrate in a gist
2021-06-25 08:45:12	phogg	varaindemian: "$2"=value is not legal (also you still are missing the close to the if block)
2021-06-25 08:45:29	phogg	varaindemian: you would want something like pid=$(xdotool getactivewindow getwindowpid)
2021-06-25 08:46:18	phogg	varaindemian: additionally, marking a variable for export does not help you if this script was run as a sub-process of your python script. Exported variables are not available to parent processes.
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2021-06-25 08:46:42	phogg	varaindemian: you would need to write the pid to some file, or to stdout or stderr, and then read that location from the parent after the script exits.
2021-06-25 08:46:46	varaindemian	phogg it is run each time I make a post
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2021-06-25 08:47:22	phogg	varaindemian: regardless, exported variables are only available to sub-processes of the script. The value won't go anywhere and will be lost when the script exits.
2021-06-25 08:47:26	EdwardIII	phogg: https://gist.github.com/EdwardIII/c95b4dc4df758491a1828abb1400590d#file-vs-sh
2021-06-25 08:47:47	phogg	EdwardIII: you're quoting the wrong place
2021-06-25 08:47:51	varaindemian	phogg writing to files then :)
2021-06-25 08:47:56	varaindemian	would be the best idea
2021-06-25 08:47:58	phogg	EdwardIII: you quote *expansions* (basically anywhere you see a $), not the glob
2021-06-25 08:48:02	EdwardIII	phogg: ah
2021-06-25 08:48:10	phogg	EdwardIII: for file in *.md docs/**.md docs/**/**.md; do echo "$file"; done
2021-06-25 08:48:12	varaindemian	phogg and then killing the process in that file :D
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2021-06-25 08:48:47	phogg	EdwardIII: in your case you will want to quote "$file" then "$(basename -s '.md' "$file")" (quoting $file inside the subshell *and* quotiong the subshell)
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2021-06-25 08:48:58	phogg	varaindemian: I agree
2021-06-25 08:49:07	treefrob	varaindemian, there is almost no reason to call a shell script from a python script, as python can do everything that the shell can. you seem to be making things unnecessarily complicated
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2021-06-25 08:49:23	EdwardIII	phogg: beautiful, thanks
2021-06-25 08:49:31	varaindemian	thank you for your help!
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2021-06-25 08:49:42	phogg	treefrob: he might not have a python library to do WM interaction available. Otherwise yes, it would be better to not call out to shell.
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2021-06-25 08:50:10	phogg	but even then you can exec xdotool directly from python
2021-06-25 08:50:13	varaindemian	treefrob I am basically modifying a thing made by someone else. Later I'll make improvements.
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2021-06-25 08:50:20	treefrob	phogg, doesn't matter. whatever programs he runs in the shell script he can run from python
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2021-06-25 08:50:52	phogg	treefrob: or maybe he just hates python and wants to write as little as possible.
2021-06-25 08:51:19	treefrob	phogg, ahh, well that's a different story, of course
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2021-06-25 08:52:12	varaindemian	I don't hate it. I'll actually look into this idea later.
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2021-06-25 09:05:00	treefrob	varaindemian, Python has some really easy-to-use mechanisms for call external programs and collecting stdout, stderr, separately, if you wish, and also interacting with such programs
2021-06-25 09:05:10	treefrob	s/for call/for calling/
2021-06-25 09:05:41	peetaur	easy but not that easy... there are some caveats to avoid
2021-06-25 09:05:42	peetaur	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1445627/how-can-i-find-out-why-subprocess-popen-wait-waits-forever-if-stdout-pipe
2021-06-25 09:05:50	peetaur	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24435987/how-to-stream-stdout-stderr-from-a-child-process-using-asyncio-and-obtain-its-e
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2021-06-25 09:07:23	peetaur	the pipe_data_received solution works for all basically... the other solutions only work with limitations, like you send STDERR to STDOUT so you read it with one blocking call (because if you block one and the other fills the buffer, it just blocks forever)
2021-06-25 09:07:35	varaindemian	phogg https://pastebin.com/ahS3gqzr what do you think?
2021-06-25 09:09:10	varaindemian	I forgot about $2 damn
2021-06-25 09:09:17	treefrob	varaindemian, two things: 1) "kill -9" should be the last resort, and not the first, and 2) there's no "fi" to end your if-block
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2021-06-25 09:10:15	varaindemian	treefrob     xdotool search --name "$2" windowkill
2021-06-25 09:10:16	varaindemian	doesn't seem to work
2021-06-25 09:10:28	peetaur	and (3) don't use pastebin.com :P and (4) that last $2 ought to be in double quotes, just in case, as all variables should be
2021-06-25 09:11:15	peetaur	and I prefer to name things....  local bettername="$1"
2021-06-25 09:11:24	peetaur	if [ -! -z "$bettername" ..
2021-06-25 09:11:35	treefrob	good point
2021-06-25 09:11:40	peetaur	oops no - for the -!
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2021-06-25 09:24:05	jaafarrc	I use Artix Linux and Wayland, I have a keyboard with dual alt keys (as opposed to alt/altGr), and I want a way to type Esperanto special characters with either alt keys.
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2021-06-25 09:24:16	varaindemian	`chromium-brpwser --name=ok --new-window --app=www.facebook.com && sleep 3 && xdotool search --name ok windowkill` -> is this valid?
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2021-06-25 09:24:39	varaindemian	chromium-browser*
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2021-06-25 09:25:20	peetaur	jaafarrc: a keyboard with the altGr looks the same to the software... it's just a label; just configure it as altgr if you want
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2021-06-25 09:26:28	jaafarrc	No, I just wanna use either alt keys to type Esperanto. I don't care about AltGr.
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2021-06-25 09:26:48	peetaur	yes but you can configure it however you want
2021-06-25 09:27:05	jaafarrc	I know that.
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2021-06-25 09:27:13	jaafarrc	I'll just keep both alt keys.
2021-06-25 09:27:15	peetaur	some people earlier said they switched caps lock and esc for example... anything is possible, just some things require special config rather than just clicks in your DE settings
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2021-06-25 09:29:07	peetaur	for me I just have ctrl+alt+k switching between layouts, and the right not-windows-key is the compose key so I can do ° and è and such
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2021-06-25 09:29:18	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-25 09:30:45	jaafarrc	Well, in my case, I want my alt keys to change CSUJH to have diacritics.
2021-06-25 09:30:50	jaafarrc	I'll give you an example.
2021-06-25 09:31:01	varaindemian	    `pid=$(xdotool getactivewindow getwindowpid)` is equivalent to `pid = `xdotool getactivewindow getwindowpid``
2021-06-25 09:31:08	varaindemian	?
2021-06-25 09:31:51	jaafarrc	alt+c = ĉ
2021-06-25 09:31:58	jaafarrc	Like this, for instancd.
2021-06-25 09:32:02	jaafarrc	instance*
2021-06-25 09:33:14	peetaur	for me I can +compose +shift 6 -shift c -compose and get ĉ
2021-06-25 09:33:46	peetaur	can you just add another layout tha tdoes that?
2021-06-25 09:33:55	jaafarrc	I don't know how.
2021-06-25 09:34:00	peetaur	(the shift added in this example is pretty bad :D)
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2021-06-25 09:34:11	peetaur	what is your DE?
2021-06-25 09:34:17	jaafarrc	Sway.
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2021-06-25 09:34:26	peetaur	it's easy in KDE plasma 5 and I could tell you how ....and I never heard of Sway :)
2021-06-25 09:34:44	jaafarrc	I actually configure my keyboard via XKB_DEFAULT_{LAYOUT,OPTIONS}.
2021-06-25 09:35:59	jaafarrc	XKB_DEFAULT_LAYOUT=us,ara # US and Arabic && XKB_DEFAULT_OPTIONS=esperanto:qwerty,grp:alt_shift_toggle
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2021-06-25 09:37:28	varaindemian	peetaur `if [ ! -z "$1" ] || [ -z "$2" ]; then` -> what is `-z`?
2021-06-25 09:37:43	peetaur	varaindemian: "the following string is blank/empty/size=0"
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2021-06-25 09:38:14	peetaur	varaindemian: see `man test`
2021-06-25 09:38:19	peetaur	[ = "test"
2021-06-25 09:38:28	peetaur	and [[ is a bash builtin.... `help test`
2021-06-25 09:39:12	peetaur	also `help [[` ...but it basically says look at `help test`
2021-06-25 09:39:36	rapha	hi all!
2021-06-25 09:39:53	rapha	how can i pipe bsdtar's listing output through something else (cut, perl, anything)?
2021-06-25 09:40:02	<--	SkunkyLaptop (~skunky@user/skunky) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 09:40:19	rapha	i.e. `bsdtar tvf blah.rar | cut -d ' ' -f 5` or whatever
2021-06-25 09:40:31	rapha	hint: 2>&1 doesn't help
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2021-06-25 09:42:15	peetaur	rapha: cut only does single char delmimiters... use awk instead. Set delimiter with -F or just use the default which is any number of consequtive space,tab
2021-06-25 09:42:57	peetaur	for example (including my test archive I found)      tar tvzf ./lsi_cli/lsi_cli.tgz | awk '/.txt$/ {print $6}'
2021-06-25 09:43:14	peetaur	output is for example       lsi_cli/versions_9.5.4.txt\nlsi_cli/versions_10.2.1.txt
2021-06-25 09:44:24	rapha	peetaur: this is not a question about `cut` as i tried to indicate by the words "anything" and "whatever". it is a question about not being able to pipe the output of bsdtar elsewhere.
2021-06-25 09:44:48	rapha	(specifically `bsdtar`, not GNU `tar`)
2021-06-25 09:45:07	peetaur	ummm well then I guess you just put the 2>&1 in the wrong place?
2021-06-25 09:45:18	peetaur	bsdtar tvf blah.rar 2>&1 | cut -d ' ' -f 5
2021-06-25 09:45:22	rapha	bsdtar tvf blah.rar 2>&1 | ...
2021-06-25 09:45:27	rapha	where else to put it?
2021-06-25 09:45:34	peetaur	no, that's the right spot
2021-06-25 09:45:36	rapha	hmm
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2021-06-25 09:45:45	rapha	then it must be doing some weird popen() magic
2021-06-25 09:46:02	peetaur	oh it's python? I don't think you can do this sort of redirection there ... show the python?
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2021-06-25 09:46:13	rapha	where is a snake?
2021-06-25 09:46:17	 *	rapha doesn't see a snake
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2021-06-25 09:46:40	peetaur	what sort of program are you calling this command with?  (in python ther'es a lib and function "popen")
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2021-06-25 09:46:43	rapha	i was referring to stdio.h's popen(const char *, const char*)
2021-06-25 09:46:55	peetaur	and how do you do the pipe?
2021-06-25 09:46:59	rapha	... | ...
2021-06-25 09:47:04	peetaur	are you using "|" or are you connecting the input and output in 2 popens?
2021-06-25 09:47:22	peetaur	you should use 2 popens probably (but I can't say for this particular thing in C which I haven't used in 20 years)
2021-06-25 09:47:23	rapha	nono, i meant bsdtar must internally be doing some weird popen() magic that i am not privy to
2021-06-25 09:47:39	peetaur	oh ok ... so you are just writing it in your bash shell then?
2021-06-25 09:47:42	rapha	me, i'm just trying to be a user of bsdtar from a shell, namely, bash
2021-06-25 09:48:00	peetaur	ok then I can't see why the example (even without 2>&1) won't work
2021-06-25 09:48:03	rapha	funny enough 2>&1 > blah.log is working fine
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2021-06-25 09:48:24	rapha	this was just curiosity anyways, i will simply cat that .log and go from there
2021-06-25 09:48:25	peetaur	oh? strange...usually if that fixes it, also just |cat fixes it (and so would your cut)
2021-06-25 09:48:55	peetaur	which OS do I need to have bsd tar? I don't think I have it anywhere to test
2021-06-25 09:49:04	fakuve	Hi guys . sry Im  just typin with one hand . I have bluetooth tethered my connection from Tablet (which is getting Internet connection via Wifi) to a PC . I think Ive made a DUN. Is that creating any L3 nodes in between? I wanted L3 networking between my PC and my tablet . Thx
2021-06-25 09:49:07	rapha	was mostly interested if somebody else would be capable of reproducing the behaviour
2021-06-25 09:49:10	peetaur	or you can try more bash fixes... like     ( tar .... 2>&1 ) 2>&1 | ...
2021-06-25 09:49:22	rapha	peetaur: i'm using it from within Alpine Linux, where the package is called libarchive-tools
2021-06-25 09:49:32	fakuve	(#networking dont know how to work with DUN)
2021-06-25 09:49:41	rapha	oh ... subshell with redirection inside and outside ... nice one
2021-06-25 09:50:07	peetaur	yeah it works for the weirdest things, like `time ...` and some dd output :)
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2021-06-25 09:50:34	rapha	thx for that :)
2021-06-25 09:51:45	peetaur	no prob...and does that mean it works?
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2021-06-25 09:52:30	gline	im trying to write an usb driver kernel module. is there a way to reset things to before the driver was loaded, without restarting the whole pc after each attempt?
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2021-06-25 09:54:28	Khaytsus	Besides rmmod ?
2021-06-25 09:54:48	gline	Khaytsus: which is exactly where i am stuck right now :D
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2021-06-25 09:56:34	gline	dmesg tells me 'deregistering device' so the exit function in my driver was triggered but idk. something went wrong there not sure what. now rmmod is simply hanging
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2021-06-25 09:57:10	gline	i could ofc restart. But i know this will happen dozens of times before everything eventually works~
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2021-06-25 10:01:21	fakuve	how can i create a LAN using DUN bluetooth?
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2021-06-25 10:06:58	peetaur	gline: you could use vfio and pci passthrough, and then you only have to restart the guest
2021-06-25 10:07:24	peetaur	or maybe just binding and unbinding the usual xhci or whatever driver will reset it for you
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2021-06-25 10:10:44	rapha	peetaur: right now the bsdtar > blah.log thing is still running, which will take a few hours. i'll try afterwards.
2021-06-25 10:10:50	phogg	varaindemian: everything peetaur said, also you need a $ to expand pid. Expand with: "$pid". Your first assignment of $2 to pid is misleading, $2 does not contain a pid
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2021-06-25 10:23:56	rapha	btw Dagmar fun fact the perccli/perccli64 we discovered yesterday also works on a PERC H310 (which, yes, i realize, does not fulfil your definition of "actually useful controller", but still)
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2021-06-25 10:27:57	fpombal	SkunkyLaptop: so smp_affinity doesn't actually mean that you can get multiple CPUs sharing the load from a single IRQ, it just means that any of the selected CPUs can deal with it in an alternating fashion, right?
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2021-06-25 10:29:00	SkunkyLaptop	fpombal: uh.  something likek that, yeah.
2021-06-25 10:29:45	fpombal	SkunkyLaptop: OK, thanks, looks like I need a faster CPU then, this one just can't keep up with the interrupts from this NIC :) thanks
2021-06-25 10:30:52	SkunkyLaptop	fpombal: either a faster cpu, or a better nic that can do some of the processing itself.
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2021-06-25 10:34:52	fpombal	I'll probably go for a new one entirely, this one is really just very slow and outdated at this point - ~14 yo atom, 2 GiB RAM, single PCI (thats right, not PCIe) slot expansion. I was hoping that I could resolve at least this one bottleneck with some config so that I could stretch its usefulness a while longer, but oh well
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2021-06-25 10:35:53	peetaur	welcome to 2021... get a ryzen :)
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2021-06-25 10:37:27	rapha	wtf ... help!!!
2021-06-25 10:37:46	rapha	after booting with init=/bin/sh i can't use the keyboard ... this always used to work
2021-06-25 10:37:55	rapha	was there a change to sh/bash?
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2021-06-25 10:38:09	peetaur	maybe try bash? haven't tried sh like that ever
2021-06-25 10:38:12	rapha	(i.e. trying to use an emergency shell here because an init script fucked up)
2021-06-25 10:38:16	rapha	peetaur: bash, same problem
2021-06-25 10:38:40	peetaur	there was a change some years ago where the kernel no longer handles the usb hid stuff and now the initramfs stuff has to do it....which is HORRIBLY ANNOYING because it frequently means you have no keyboard when grub fails
2021-06-25 10:38:46	peetaur	maybe related?
2021-06-25 10:38:55	rapha	hmm ok perhaps best to try and boot w/o initrd
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2021-06-25 10:39:39	peetaur	um not using an initrd sounds like the opposite of the solution I suggest, but may as well try if you have it set up for that (no modules needed, only everything built in kernel is enough?)
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2021-06-25 10:41:58	akik	rapha: try rd.break=pre-pivot instead
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2021-06-25 10:45:09	rapha	oh
2021-06-25 10:45:12	rapha	that sounds interesting
2021-06-25 10:45:39	rapha	also sounds redhat-specific
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2021-06-25 10:47:08	rapha	no initrd = no lvm = no emergency shell :-/
2021-06-25 10:47:32	rapha	but it seems i _can_ load modules from the grub command line ... just which ones
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2021-06-25 10:52:22	rapha	physical usb keyboard also doesn't work
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2021-06-25 10:56:02	akik	oh right it might be red hat/fedora thing
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2021-06-25 11:01:14	Khaytsus	I've never seen a USB keyboard not work on any modern system.  I've seen some BROKEN USB keyboard that don't work at _boot_ and have to be power cycled, but that has nothing to do with the OS
2021-06-25 11:01:52	phogg	a newly plugged in usb keyboard might not work if udevd is not running or not working
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2021-06-25 11:08:43	quartz	Did anyone see the Windows 11 reveal? They literally just crammed in all the MS services and redid the UI and called it a day. lol I'm guessing it would take at least an hour just to uninstall all the bloat/MS services if you even can.
2021-06-25 11:08:53	quartz	SO glad I use linux now :)
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2021-06-25 11:11:59	mitsuda	yea, maybe people will be more receptive to linux shilling now
2021-06-25 11:12:01	phogg	quartz: I didn't really look at it (not much interest)
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2021-06-25 11:12:38	phogg	the thing that bothers me about all of this isn't added services, which are arguable, but bone-headed moves like putting the start menu in the middle of the screen
2021-06-25 11:12:54	omegatron	I did and can only repeat myself as in the last 20 years: consider windows as malware and act accordingly ..
2021-06-25 11:13:06	phogg	you can debate the merits of lots of things, but basic human/computer interactions don't change. Corners are easier to hit with a mouse, period.
2021-06-25 11:13:07	omegatron	nothing else to say
2021-06-25 11:13:20	softraid	I hate proprietary operating systems.
2021-06-25 11:13:44	Khaytsus	softraid: cool story bro
2021-06-25 11:13:48	irrenhaus3	mitsuda: non-tech people haven't been receptive to linux shilling even in the face of the user-hostile windows 10 rollouts and subsequent interruptions of all kinds of services. I don't think win11 will change that
2021-06-25 11:14:06	-->	brejela (~brejela@user/brejela) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 11:14:21	phogg	Some of their innovations are actually quite welcome. When the windows WM gained a kind of auto-arrangement feature where you could snap windows into left/right or top/bottom configurations, that was a good development. Having each window maximize button give access to a minimal tiling-style layout option is a great UI innovation that I hope everyone copies.
2021-06-25 11:14:23	phogg	or learns from
2021-06-25 11:14:28	Khaytsus	2021 is the yeAr OF tHE liNux DeSktoP
2021-06-25 11:14:37	renard	mandatory Secure Boot and TPM is going to be fun when newbies will want to try out Linux
2021-06-25 11:14:47	matsaman	as if 'year of the desktop' even means anything
2021-06-25 11:14:51	softraid	oh? we are a different ecosystem after all
2021-06-25 11:14:52	Khaytsus	renard: Modern distros just work on EFI+SecureBoot
2021-06-25 11:14:54	matsaman	renard: yeah
2021-06-25 11:15:26	Khaytsus	Third party modules are when you run into issues..
2021-06-25 11:15:29	drip	they havent said secure boot will be mandatory, and the upgrade tool will report its OK if you have secure boot disabled
2021-06-25 11:15:40	matsaman	any of those devices, though, can opt to disallow GNU/Linux "just work"-ing
2021-06-25 11:15:41	drip	but tpm2 requirement.. yeah fun
2021-06-25 11:15:43	mitsuda	the only advantage windows has over linux is that it comes pre-intstalled in computers
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2021-06-25 11:15:51	matsaman	drip: for Windows 11?
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2021-06-25 11:15:54	drip	yeah
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2021-06-25 11:16:13	Khaytsus	mitsuda: And that it's widely supported by vendors......
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2021-06-25 11:16:39	matsaman	Khaytsus: that's the same thing, really
2021-06-25 11:16:42	matsaman	preinstalled, by vendors
2021-06-25 11:16:45	Khaytsus	No it isn't.
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2021-06-25 11:17:15	matsaman	you mean supported like you call them for help?
2021-06-25 11:17:20	mitsuda	Khaytsus: you mean like technical support?
2021-06-25 11:17:37	matsaman	I doubt anybody selling preinstalled GNU/Linux is not doing the 'support' for it
2021-06-25 11:18:12	phogg	"supported by vendors" means that the hardware configuration is known to be fully working when they sell it to you
2021-06-25 11:18:29	matsaman	if it were preinstalled, that would be ... obvious?
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2021-06-25 11:18:35	matsaman	that's why I say it's the same thing
2021-06-25 11:18:35	softraid	system76 sells laptops and desktops with PopOS installed, and they are pretty good
2021-06-25 11:18:38	phogg	matsaman: it's really not
2021-06-25 11:18:43	matsaman	it really is though isn't it? =P
2021-06-25 11:18:55	matsaman	when have you heard of preinstalled linux that didn't work at all? =P
2021-06-25 11:19:02	matsaman	what business would survive such nonsense
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2021-06-25 11:19:35	johnnyapol	im moving my dad's machine to linux mint because he lacks uefi, tpm, and secure boot so no windows 11 for him. computer is in good shape just needs new thermal paste because it sounds like a plane taking off if cpu goes above 15%
2021-06-25 11:19:52	phogg	you can buy Linux preinstalled from some places, but they don't all certify that all of the hardware will work. Additionally, the upstream hardware vendors don't certify that their hardware will work with Linux in many cases (not in general, and definitely not on the specific distro that came preinstalled)
2021-06-25 11:20:01	matsaman	johnnyapol: honestly I'd be surprised if workarounds for Windows 11 requirements don't come _immediately_
2021-06-25 11:20:07	matsaman	but he'll be better off with GNU/Linux anyway
2021-06-25 11:20:21	<--	thiras (~thiras@user/thiras) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-25 11:20:33	matsaman	phogg: certify, yeah I doubt they spend extra money that Microsoft extracts from people in their process
2021-06-25 11:20:35	johnnyapol	there already are (you can copy win10 system files), but then we risk it breaking next time it decides to "update"
2021-06-25 11:20:35	phogg	on the Windows side you can be pretty sure that every component was individually tested by the people who created it, and again by the people who put together the combination of hardware you're buying. That's just not a thing on the Linux side (and is not likely to be)
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2021-06-25 11:20:51	matsaman	I have my doubts
2021-06-25 11:21:03	matsaman	I think people selling Linux laptops will test all the features that matter
2021-06-25 11:21:07	phogg	I don't think it matters that much, but it's quite definitely a difference between the systems.
2021-06-25 11:21:27	matsaman	johnnyapol: crap breaks itself all the time anyway
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2021-06-25 11:21:40	phogg	matsaman: "features that matter" is a matter of opinion. Does that include hibernation? Now you have to ask which kernel version, or even which distro, was tested.
2021-06-25 11:21:49	matsaman	I think I _would_ rather keep buying non-UEFI-required mobos, though
2021-06-25 11:21:55	johnnyapol	I'm looking forward to the framework modular laptop launching. They're open sourcing all the important firmware and stuff with the hopes of it being upstreamed into linux distros
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2021-06-25 11:22:03	phogg	matsaman: I can agree to that
2021-06-25 11:22:08	matsaman	phogg: I think hibernation is pretty easy to test, and crucial to laptops, so yes
2021-06-25 11:22:17	matsaman	but I'm sure something gets missed somewhere
2021-06-25 11:22:27	matsaman	but Windows boxes also have that imperfection
2021-06-25 11:22:40	matsaman	johnnyapol: link?
2021-06-25 11:22:44	<--	TheFreim (~TheFreim@173-27-0-2.client.mchsi.com) has quit (Quit: Quit)
2021-06-25 11:22:47	johnnyapol	https://frame.work
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2021-06-25 11:22:55	matsaman	wow, bad name
2021-06-25 11:23:11	matsaman	$1000, damn
2021-06-25 11:23:21	johnnyapol	the DIY model starts much cheaper
2021-06-25 11:23:36	johnnyapol	i think its like $749 for the DIY kit
2021-06-25 11:23:37	matsaman	nice goal though
2021-06-25 11:23:56	matsaman	yeah but I can take apart and maintain this $150 chromebook I got years ago
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2021-06-25 11:27:10	phogg	johnnyapol: thanks for the link, I hadn't heard about that one.
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2021-06-25 11:29:45	niko	!ops
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2021-06-25 11:29:52	niko	!ops reason
2021-06-25 11:30:09	ayecee	niko: what are you trying to do?
2021-06-25 11:30:45	niko	ayecee: testing something
2021-06-25 11:30:49	ayecee	testing what?
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2021-06-25 11:31:04	peetaur	is there an AntiSpamMeta or whatever the bot was called? if there was, your "testing" would be spamming all the ops
2021-06-25 11:31:31	ayecee	it's not an automated thing. it's just something they have their respective irc clients flag.
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2021-06-25 11:31:58	ayecee	oh.
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2021-06-25 11:32:23	ayecee	hi niko, i see you're libera staff.
2021-06-25 11:32:30	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-25 11:32:38	phogg	I would think that you would want each !ops call to be tracked by a bot and given a unique ID so that an op who handles it can mark it as done in case another sees it later.
2021-06-25 11:32:47	peetaur	there was a bot named like AntiSpamMeta....when you used that trigger, he'd pm you saying like "thanks bla bla but next time maybe don't paint a target on your back and send via pm"
2021-06-25 11:33:00	peetaur	so doesn't sound like simply an irc client thing
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2021-06-25 11:33:43	ayecee	i remember that message, but it hadn't done that for years, i think.
2021-06-25 11:33:59	phogg	it was definitely still a thing last year
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2021-06-25 11:34:37	ayecee	i can't remember the last time i saw it myself
2021-06-25 11:35:14	fling	How to debug soft-irq cpu usage?
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2021-06-25 11:35:25	fling	ayecee: Hello.
2021-06-25 11:35:35	ayecee	classic fling question
2021-06-25 11:35:49	ayecee	needs twenty minutes of further questions to figure out what it means
2021-06-25 11:36:14	matsaman	/usr/sbin/soft-irq_cpu_usage --debug
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2021-06-25 11:37:07	ayecee	fling: so, what do you mean
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2021-06-25 11:38:50	fling	a faulty usb v4l2 device caused lot of interrupts
2021-06-25 11:39:16	fling	which resulted in high cpu usage by soft irq from usb
2021-06-25 11:39:17	fling	thanks
2021-06-25 11:39:30	ayecee	what about that do you want to debug
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2021-06-25 11:39:35	fling	matsaman: no, it is mpstat and /proc/interrupts
2021-06-25 11:39:42	matsaman	fling: fine fine
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2021-06-25 11:40:54	fling	ayecee: wanted to figure out where this cpu usage coming from
2021-06-25 11:40:57	softraid	sup ayecee
2021-06-25 11:41:00	fling	ayecee: figured out it is IO-APIC  18-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb1
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2021-06-25 11:46:59	ayecee	i don't think that's a soft irq but i'm glad you figured it out
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2021-06-25 11:48:02	ayecee	oh i see, the softirq does the "bottom half" work for that one.
2021-06-25 11:48:23	fling	htop said it is soft-irq
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2021-06-25 11:50:07	ayecee	that 18-fasteoi thing is a hard irq, and the interrupt handler handles the interrupt and passes the slow part of the work to the soft irq.
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2021-06-25 11:50:45	ayecee	don't know if i have the words right there, but it's something like that.
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2021-06-25 11:52:30	ayecee	this was a pretty good answer that describes that, if anyone's curious. https://stackoverflow.com/a/20888219
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2021-06-25 11:58:40	lacroix	!ops test
2021-06-25 11:58:54	-->	b0urne2 (~b0urne@36.57.144.19) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 11:58:57	lacroix	all right :)
2021-06-25 11:59:07	<--	renard (~renard@lstlambert-657-1-110-45.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 11:59:24	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-06-25 11:59:37	ayecee	lacroix: so does that trigger a bot to send y'all a message?
2021-06-25 12:00:05	--	lacroix has changed topic for #linux from "Welcome to #Linux. Help/support for any Linux distribution. Discussion about the various aspects of Linux and Free/Open Source software is also encouraged. Rules at https://linux.chat/linux-on-libera/channel-rules/ -- Pastebin: "<command> | nc termbin.com 9999" (please don't use pastebin.com) -- No SMS (u, thx, etc.) -- Need an op? Join #linux-ops" to "Welcome to #Linux. Help/support for any Linux distribution. Discussion about the various aspects of Linux and Free/Open Source software is also encouraged. Rules at https://linux.chat/linux-on-libera/channel-rules/ -- Pastebin: "<command> | nc termbin.com 9999" (please don't use pastebin.com) -- No SMS (u, thx, etc.) -- Need an op? !ops <reason> or Join #linux-ops"
2021-06-25 12:00:10	ayecee	or is it something you configure in your clients?
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2021-06-25 12:00:28	@lacroix	ayecee, indeed, that would send a message to #linux-ops with the reason if provided
2021-06-25 12:00:33	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-06-25 12:00:35	ayecee	ahh
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2021-06-25 12:01:10	lacroix	useful in my opinion
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2021-06-25 12:01:25	ayecee	yup
2021-06-25 12:01:49	lacroix	*nod*
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2021-06-25 12:02:23	wasutton	I'm looking for some advice on long term package organization. I've been the curator of a simple utility for about two years, the prior author vanished from the face of the earth.
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2021-06-25 12:02:49	wasutton	to avoid a similar situation, I'd like to create a github organization of the same name as the utility, however that name is already taken.
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2021-06-25 12:03:26	wasutton	Since the utility is extremely well established (20+ years old), what advice can be given as to the name of the organization such that it can easily be recognized as upstream?
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2021-06-25 12:03:55	akk	Sometimes that happens, like how debian packages the calc utility as apcalc.
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2021-06-25 12:04:18	ayecee	i wonder if there are other packages where the same has occured
2021-06-25 12:04:19	akk	Could the utility's -h or --help include a note about the org name, or a url to it?
2021-06-25 12:04:41	peetaur	why don't you tell us the name?
2021-06-25 12:04:51	wasutton	peetaur, mtx
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2021-06-25 12:05:34	wasutton	the issue is I don't have access to the existing sourceforge repo (currently upstream for a lot of distros), so I can't add anything to the -h of the existing packages
2021-06-25 12:05:37	peetaur	ok sounds liek a TLA that might be used for lots of random things
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2021-06-25 12:06:07	wasutton	peetaur, scsi control of tape devices and changers
2021-06-25 12:06:08	akk	For debian that seems to be two things, a barcode thing and a tape drive thing.
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2021-06-25 12:06:28	peetaur	oh that thing...I've used that. :)
2021-06-25 12:06:28	wasutton	akk, I'm familiar with the debian maintainer. We've been in touch
2021-06-25 12:06:31	phogg	wasutton: maybe you can contact the owner of the name 'mtx' on github and ask for it to be transferred.
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2021-06-25 12:06:59	peetaur	tape robots support bar codes ...so they go together
2021-06-25 12:07:01	wasutton	phogg, already tried that. the "MTX" account on github has no contact information, hasn't been logged into since 2016, and github itself won't release the name
2021-06-25 12:07:16	wasutton	it also has no repos, issues, messages, etc attached to it.
2021-06-25 12:07:21	phogg	wasutton: unfortunate. Set up shop on gitlab instead?
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2021-06-25 12:08:02	peetaur	he doesn't want a new service...just naming suggestion
2021-06-25 12:08:05	johnnyapol	could always just do "mtx-org"
2021-06-25 12:08:08	phogg	wasutton: if it's just the name there are lots of ways to make an alternate, but there are no general solutions
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2021-06-25 12:08:20	johnnyapol	then the repo would be at mtx-org/mtx
2021-06-25 12:08:24	peetaur	what does mtx stand for? magnetic tape eXchanger?
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2021-06-25 12:08:53	wasutton	johnnyapol, thats an idea. I was just wondering if there was an accepted convention.
2021-06-25 12:09:08	phogg	wasutton: as to that, no.
2021-06-25 12:09:34	phogg	it's not a thing that comes up too often
2021-06-25 12:09:56	akk	mtx-org seems like a good choice, would be recognizable to most people.
2021-06-25 12:10:01	wasutton	i agree
2021-06-25 12:10:07	phogg	in the case of forks a new name is chosen, but a new person taking up an abandoned project without any access to the original is not common enough
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2021-06-25 12:12:32	wasutton	it is done
2021-06-25 12:12:33	wasutton	https://github.com/mtx-org/mtx
2021-06-25 12:12:43	ayecee	\o/
2021-06-25 12:12:50	akk	yay
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2021-06-25 12:14:35	phogg	and there was much rejoicing
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2021-06-25 12:18:25	rapha	what's missing if `vgscan --mknodes` doesn't actually make any nodes (but pvdisplay, vgdisplay, lvdisplay is all fine)?
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2021-06-25 12:19:39	rapha	ah ... -a y
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2021-06-25 12:27:40	Psi-Jack	Looks like I get to start really delving into learning k8s, k3s, and rancher. heh
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2021-06-25 12:32:55	ice9	every boot some services crash with this message "crashed with SIGABRT in epoll_wait()"; how to investigate and what could be the issue?
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2021-06-25 12:33:43	monsterco	Anyone has access to wholesale vendors can tell me price of 5 pack UAP-AC-Lite? This is the manufacturer model: UAP-AC-LITE-5
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2021-06-25 12:37:03	Feuermagier	If i sshfs a directory, where will the files land on the remote machine?
2021-06-25 12:37:20	matsaman	Feuermagier: sshfs user@host:remotepath localpath
2021-06-25 12:37:54	matsaman	sshfs user@vanilla:downloads ~/mnt/vanilla-downloads
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2021-06-25 12:38:12	matsaman	never used it in reverse
2021-06-25 12:38:24	matsaman	not sure why you would
2021-06-25 12:38:59	Feuermagier	matsaman, if I leave a space after the ":" and than my path, where will it land (I have the folder mounted, but can't find it on the machine)
2021-06-25 12:39:08	matsaman	Feuermagier: the user's home dir
2021-06-25 12:39:25	matsaman	'user@host: ' is the same as user@host:~/, basically
2021-06-25 12:39:40	matsaman	whatever dir you see if you ssh in as that user on that host
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2021-06-25 12:40:06	Feuermagier	matsaman, I assumed that, but I appear to have lost a folder
2021-06-25 12:40:23	matsaman	lost? Which'n?
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2021-06-25 12:41:59	Feuermagier	matsaman, I have executed my mount "sshfs root@svm1831.net.in.tum.de: /home/feuermagier/Stuff/" - the mount was successful. there is stuff in that folder on my machine if I visit it. If I enter the home directory of "root" on the machine, it is empty.
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2021-06-25 12:43:13	matsaman	Feuermagier: what directory is that? And what are you expecting? root's home is frequently empty. One shouldn't do much as root
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2021-06-25 12:44:16	Feuermagier	matsaman, it's a VM provided by my university for an assignment. What I mean is that I have the mount connected and copied files into the mounted dir. but I can't find those files on the VM
2021-06-25 12:44:34	matsaman	Feuermagier: what command did you use?
2021-06-25 12:45:07	Feuermagier	matsaman, sshfs root@svm1831.net.in.tum.de: /home/feuermagier/Documents/Studium/GRNVS/VM/
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2021-06-25 12:46:01	matsaman	Feuermagier: alright that would be for mounting, and for copying what'd you run?
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2021-06-25 12:46:20	Feuermagier	matsaman, opened the folder in dolphin and pasted
2021-06-25 12:47:04	VMGuy234	Is there a way to get my HexChat config to IRSSI (Auto connect, SASL, auto join)
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2021-06-25 12:48:15	matsaman	what if you do: touch /home/feuermagier/Documents/Studium/GRNVS/VM/feuer_wuz_here; ssh root@svm1831.net.in.tum.de ls | grep -i wuz
2021-06-25 12:48:31	matsaman	VMGuy234: should be a pretty easy manual process
2021-06-25 12:48:35	matsaman	VMGuy234: #libera can help also
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2021-06-25 12:48:46	VMGuy234	ok
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2021-06-25 12:49:03	matsaman	I've done it but it was years ago, it's simple enough
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2021-06-25 12:50:32	Feuermagier	matsaman, sec. I'm deleting the files and specifying a proper path for the mount.
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2021-06-25 12:51:28	Dagmar	I wasn't aware they used the same configuration format
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2021-06-25 12:52:21	banshi	hello all
2021-06-25 12:52:25	VMGuy234	hello
2021-06-25 12:52:26	bparker	bye
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2021-06-25 12:53:05	Dagmar	Feuermagier: Is there some reason you're using root credentials to access what is obviously a user directory?
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2021-06-25 12:54:06	Feuermagier	Dagmar, I planned to use the VM for ~15 minutes until the assignment is done and then it will be deleted. I have not configured anything on the machine except the .ssh
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2021-06-25 12:55:33	banshi	My PC is rebooting in cycle. Cannot understand why. Is in dmesg any tip? : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZbpsmrCXCq/      I see this: EDAC MC0: Giving out device to 'sb_edac.c'
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2021-06-25 12:57:39	omegatron	... is it playing "Never gonna give you up" by Rick Astley while rebooting?
2021-06-25 12:58:03	Feuermagier	omegatron, my computer always does that, too. no idea why
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2021-06-25 12:58:27	omegatron	jokes aside, what about the message   FAT-fs (nvme0n1p1): Volume was not properly unmounted. Some data may be corrupt. Please run fsck
2021-06-25 12:58:48	omegatron	did you some unclean shutdown before your pc was in a reboot loop?
2021-06-25 12:59:58	banshi	omegatron: I have repaired all partitions after that and rebooted. But same thing - cycle boot
2021-06-25 13:00:07	banshi	Is there anything else?
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2021-06-25 13:00:32	omegatron	so, you can rule out that nvme disk itself is not broken?
2021-06-25 13:00:40	omegatron	hmm
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2021-06-25 13:01:31	omegatron	can you boot with some rescue system from a usb pen drive? (to rule out some hardware defect)
2021-06-25 13:01:38	Feuermagier	matsaman, fixed with brute force by deleting everything and starting over :)
2021-06-25 13:01:51	omegatron	(i mean it's summer and hardware can get hot now)
2021-06-25 13:01:53	banshi	omegatron: I did it (booted from live cd)
2021-06-25 13:02:41	banshi	then I mounted partitions to look for info about issue in /var/log/
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2021-06-25 13:03:05	banshi	that way I get that dmesg
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2021-06-25 13:04:55	Dagmar	Feuermagier: That doesn't really answer the question.  Apparently the user account exists, yet you're trying to ssh as root and having problems.
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2021-06-25 13:05:17	Dagmar	Feuermagier: Are you _aware_ that generally speaking, root access via ssh is usually *forbidden*?
2021-06-25 13:05:28	Dagmar	That could easily have been your entire problem.
2021-06-25 13:05:53	matsaman	Feuermagier: heh
2021-06-25 13:06:00	omegatron	ok, I just saw the lines about  systemd in your log ..  can't help you with that (i'm no systemd user, though that doesn't imply it is at fault)
2021-06-25 13:06:21	matsaman	Feuermagier: it's true that in recent years, by default sshd's config will not allow ssh as root
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2021-06-25 13:06:30	Feuermagier	Dagmar, I have not configured the VM. It works now. Judging by the 150x slower transfer speed I have now compared to last time, my guess is the folder wasn't mounted properly last time and I actually just copied stuff around on my local machine.
2021-06-25 13:06:31	matsaman	that is, to ssh into a remote as that remote's root
2021-06-25 13:06:48	matsaman	a lot of accidents can happen with GUI file management
2021-06-25 13:06:50	matsaman	commands are more bettah
2021-06-25 13:06:54	Dagmar	"Recent years" being like, twenty or more of them
2021-06-25 13:07:04	matsaman	Dagmar: nah
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2021-06-25 13:07:44	Dagmar	It's been disallowed via password for ages
2021-06-25 13:07:47	matsaman	all the trendy systems abuse sudo so you can get root immediately once you get a user, anyway
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2021-06-25 13:08:03	matsaman	it's been less than the majority of the time I've even used GNU/Linux
2021-06-25 13:08:20	Dagmar	The issue isn't preventing sudo
2021-06-25 13:08:39	matsaman	was there an issue? =)
2021-06-25 13:08:52	Dagmar	The issue is preventing idiots being a liability to those around them by picking crap passwords as root and simply waiting until one of the many automated scanners guesses which crap password they're using
2021-06-25 13:09:13	Dagmar	I used to actually capture those bots for study
2021-06-25 13:09:26	--	caseif_ is now known as caseif
2021-06-25 13:09:27	Dagmar	I thought of them as my "most used password list updater"
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2021-06-25 13:09:48	matsaman	yeah but if your sysadmin is that dumb, ain't nothing will save you
2021-06-25 13:09:58	Feuermagier	Dagmar, there is no password - only a keypair for SSH :D
2021-06-25 13:10:08	Dagmar	Requiring an ssh key for direct access to root will prevent that, which is why they made it the default
2021-06-25 13:10:11	matsaman	that doesn't really change the problem, really
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2021-06-25 13:10:26	Feuermagier	matsaman, It's like that on my raspi. Why is root-ssh disallowed if t
2021-06-25 13:10:28	jim	really?
2021-06-25 13:10:31	Dagmar	Feuermagier: Oh sweet!  Then the next most-likely issue would just be it not catching on to what you stuck in ~/.ssh/config
2021-06-25 13:10:32	matsaman	an idiot can still share the keys, or lose them
2021-06-25 13:10:39	matsaman	Feuermagier: disallowed if t...?
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2021-06-25 13:10:46	Feuermagier	if your first command after login is sudo -i anyway
2021-06-25 13:10:55	Dagmar	Keys can't be _guessed_
2021-06-25 13:11:01	matsaman	Feuermagier: this is roughly the argument I have made to Dagmar just now
2021-06-25 13:11:08	matsaman	Feuermagier: people waste all sorts of time in the name of security
2021-06-25 13:11:16	Dagmar	An idiot sharing the keys on github is not the problem being addressed.
2021-06-25 13:11:24	matsaman	Feuermagier: but the reality is, as Dagmar stated, root is usually disabled for ssh access these days
2021-06-25 13:11:34	Dagmar	Feuermagier: People also say a lot of stupid s**t to cover their butts
2021-06-25 13:11:48	matsaman	you can enable it for a local VM for school with little repurcussions, most likely
2021-06-25 13:11:59	matsaman	repercussions*
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2021-06-25 13:12:29	Feuermagier	matsaman, oh, yeah. The VM is designed to allow quick, raw access to the network interface for users with no/little prior linux experience
2021-06-25 13:12:29	Dagmar	Using the normal user account, no reconfiguration is necessary
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2021-06-25 13:12:33	quartz	I'm on manjaro linux. I'm trying to use my VPN, but when I connect to the VPN service, it still shows my ISP IP address and not the one from the VPN service. I'm not sure how to fix this. Any help?
2021-06-25 13:12:36	<--	qman (rohroh@user/qman) has quit (Quit: "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." --Benjamin Franklin)
2021-06-25 13:12:47	Feuermagier	quartz, check your network interface
2021-06-25 13:12:54	matsaman	Dagmar: definitely also true
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2021-06-25 13:13:04	Dagmar	quartz: That's going to be a matter of contacting your VPN provider's support group
2021-06-25 13:13:04	Psi-Jack	quartz: Company VPN or "anonymizer" vpn?
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2021-06-25 13:13:35	quartz	Psi-Jack: Uhm, I purchased it myself, not a work related VPN
2021-06-25 13:13:48	<--	kai_ (~kai@user/vmguy23) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-25 13:13:51	Dagmar	If they supplied instructions on how to configure the VPN and you followed those directions, they have something to answer for
2021-06-25 13:13:52	Psi-Jack	So, the latter?
2021-06-25 13:14:05	quartz	Psi-Jack: Yes, I suppose. I like privacy hah
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2021-06-25 13:14:22	Psi-Jack	VPN is about security, not privacy. Bridging two networks together.
2021-06-25 13:14:35	quartz	Oh, I thought it was about both.
2021-06-25 13:14:38	Psi-Jack	No.
2021-06-25 13:15:10	quartz	THe company gave me a file to use to install the VPN via network manager in manjaro KDE. It connects but the same IP address shows up for my ISP. Weird.
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2021-06-25 13:15:16	Dagmar	Well... *insert logical operator emoji for subset that I'm too lazy to lookup here*
2021-06-25 13:15:33	quartz	Psi-Jack: Why not privacy?
2021-06-25 13:15:34	Dagmar	quartz: Then their instructions are apparently flawed.
2021-06-25 13:15:38	c705	Psi-Jack: what are you talking about?
2021-06-25 13:15:40	Psi-Jack	quartz: That's not what it was designed for.
2021-06-25 13:15:43	Psi-Jack	c705: VPN
2021-06-25 13:15:48	Dagmar	You should probably tell them about it before one of their customers is snatched up by the Chinese military and thrown into a gulag
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2021-06-25 13:16:07	Feuermagier	quartz, using manjaro myself I can tell you that the network manager has no idea what it's doing and I couldn't even get OpenVPN to work with it
2021-06-25 13:16:10	c705	VPN is a tool that can be used for many purposes. Privacy being one of them, security being another
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2021-06-25 13:16:31	Psi-Jack	Feuermagier: What you mean to say is. YOU do not know what you're doing. Not Network-Manager.
2021-06-25 13:16:33	c705	How is a VPN "not designed for privacy"
2021-06-25 13:16:40	quartz	Feuermagier: So how did you get it to work? I had the same problem on Linux Mint cinnamon.
2021-06-25 13:16:54	Psi-Jack	c705: It's designed for bridging two networks together for security, to join two PRIVATE networks.
2021-06-25 13:16:58	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, well, networkmanager is gui with "select your file, press button, see what happens"
2021-06-25 13:17:11	Psi-Jack	No, NetworkManager is a service. There are GUIs to interact with it.
2021-06-25 13:17:16	Feuermagier	quartz, use openvpn directly
2021-06-25 13:17:17	c705	Psi-Jack: that's one use case out of many
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2021-06-25 13:17:32	Psi-Jack	c705: That's it's actual design.
2021-06-25 13:17:42	Psi-Jack	I will not argue about this.
2021-06-25 13:17:49	c705	good lord
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2021-06-25 13:18:20	Psi-Jack	People that use it for "anonymization" are ill-informed, and throwing money away, and it's just plain stupid.
2021-06-25 13:18:27	c705	quartz: a VPN can be used to improve yopur privacy. I have no ide what Psi-Jack is on about
2021-06-25 13:18:27	Dagmar	Newsflash: Using encryption on network traffic is a matter of privacy becuase this is a synonym for "Confidentiality".
2021-06-25 13:18:31	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, well, any time I touch anything my network blows up anyway, and I spend the next 5 hours fixing it, so...
2021-06-25 13:18:36	Dagmar	The 'C' there is capitalized for a reason.
2021-06-25 13:19:05	quartz	c705: Yeah from the research I did before I purchased the VPN service, privacy was one of the benefits of getting a VPN.
2021-06-25 13:19:08	Dagmar	If Confidentiality weren't a relevant aspect, it would just be a tunneled network connection.
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2021-06-25 13:19:18	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, most just use a VPN because they don't want to get sued for copy-right infringements
2021-06-25 13:19:20	matsaman	most people use a VPN as a single proxy and nothing more
2021-06-25 13:19:21	Psi-Jack	Feuermagier: I love my NetworkManager, with systemd-resolved setup that Fedora has nicely setup for me. And BTW, I've committed code to NetworkManager myself. :)
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2021-06-25 13:19:27	matsaman	normal internet people
2021-06-25 13:19:37	Dagmar	quartz: Tell them their magic file is apparently all out of magic
2021-06-25 13:19:46	c705	quartz: now, what you should know is that it doesn't provide full blown annonymization. The VPN provider will see your traffic, but your ISP will not. If that meets your needs, then cool
2021-06-25 13:19:56	tusko	the bean kicked in
2021-06-25 13:20:18	quartz	c705: Yes I realize that. Some websites block you unless you disable the VPN which is very irritating.
2021-06-25 13:20:29	Sauvin	Netflix, Hulu, ....
2021-06-25 13:20:33	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, I currently have an issue that my network interface goes down absolutely randomly and can (sometimes) be reactivated with an ifconfig down/up and sometimes only with a complete reboot
2021-06-25 13:20:34	Dagmar	c705: As an added bonus, if they're a provider that collects payment, now there's a definite paper trail associating network activity with a person's personal payemnt card
2021-06-25 13:20:40	c705	netflix works fine with my VPN
2021-06-25 13:20:56	<--	pinPoint (~pinPoint@about/windows/staff/Pinpoint) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-25 13:20:56	Dagmar	...which only needs a judge's permission to request and expose!  Yay!
2021-06-25 13:21:01	Psi-Jack	Feuermagier: ifconfig? That's been long obsoleted.
2021-06-25 13:21:05	c705	Dagmar: as opposed to your ISP?
2021-06-25 13:21:13	Sauvin	c705, mine works mostly, but not wholly. Some movies and programs are available if I hook up without the VPN, but disappear when I use it.
2021-06-25 13:21:33	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, yeah. ip down/up didn't do anything at all
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2021-06-25 13:21:38	Dagmar	c705: One might eb able to get away with saying "Uhh... the neighbor's kids or pets probably used my wireless"
2021-06-25 13:21:47	c705	at the end of the day, someone is getting your network traffic unless you're using tor or something.
2021-06-25 13:21:52	Psi-Jack	Feuermagier: Sounds to me like a hardware issue. Realcrap NIC?
2021-06-25 13:21:57	Dagmar	c705: ...but that's not really going to fly with a VPN service that needs to be explicitly connected to a specific machine.
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2021-06-25 13:22:09	c705	Dagmar: i don't think that will fly in ny court
2021-06-25 13:22:12	c705	any*
2021-06-25 13:22:19	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, but as said the issue is random and I still have no idea what causes it. #networking guys suggested cable, but have ruled that one out now
2021-06-25 13:22:26	Dagmar	I've seen people pull the "I wasn't using WEP on my wifi" excuse before
2021-06-25 13:22:26	Sauvin	Psi-Jack, what is realcrap's actual name?
2021-06-25 13:22:28	quartz	Is there such a thing as an IP address that comes from a VPN that is also not able to be identified by the public?
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2021-06-25 13:22:37	Psi-Jack	Sauvin: Realcrap. :)
2021-06-25 13:22:42	Feuermagier	Psi-Jack, lights at the port go out completely, so maybe
2021-06-25 13:22:54	Sauvin	Identify "realcrap".
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2021-06-25 13:23:04	Psi-Jack	Feuermagier: Realtek, what I refer to as Realcrap, is often a horrible piece of miserable garbage.
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2021-06-25 13:23:19	Feuermagier	Dagmar, sadly not in my country
2021-06-25 13:23:20	Psi-Jack	95% of the time. Hence, the well-earned nickname.
2021-06-25 13:23:20	Dagmar	Meh.  I won't go _that_ far.
2021-06-25 13:23:23	matsaman	quartz: you just need more proxies than your opponents have resources to go through for any given duration
2021-06-25 13:23:25	Dagmar	I will say they're really hit-or-miss.
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2021-06-25 13:23:32	c705	A VPN can be used to improve privacy. It does not provide full blown annonymization.
2021-06-25 13:23:37	Sauvin	OK, *NOW* it's all good. Call it "realcrap" if you want (call it editorial license), but make sure people know you're talking about RealTek..
2021-06-25 13:23:37	Dagmar	Sometimes they make a chipset that works fine and continues to work fine
2021-06-25 13:23:38	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-25 13:23:45	quartz	matsaman: What do you mean?
2021-06-25 13:23:45	c705	Obviously it depends on how the provider acts as well. That's all i'm saying
2021-06-25 13:23:49	Dagmar	...but they don't seem to have the hang of a chipset with "minor" flaws
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2021-06-25 13:23:53	Feuermagier	Dagmar, and honestly I'd rather pay 1.50€ a month than to bother with all that
2021-06-25 13:23:54	<--	vesper_ (~John@gateway/tor-sasl/vesper) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 13:23:56	Dagmar	The ones tehy make that suck, really suck large
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2021-06-25 13:24:14	matsaman	quartz: if you log into another computer and then get on the internet, you're using that computer as a proxy
2021-06-25 13:24:21	Dagmar	Feuermagier: If I have a concern, I use ToR or go buy a cup of coffee somewhere.
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2021-06-25 13:24:31	Psi-Jack	And more-so, Realcrap WNICs are just absolute 99.9999% garbage.
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2021-06-25 13:24:38	matsaman	quartz: but someone who has power/influence/control/access to that single proxy could still find out where you're ultimately coming from
2021-06-25 13:24:49	matsaman	quartz: if you use two proxies you make the job twice as hard
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2021-06-25 13:24:55	Dagmar	*THat* declaration is one I can get behind.  THe majority of Realtek's wireless chipsets are kinda garbage
2021-06-25 13:25:00	Feuermagier	Dagmar, ah, yes. but you see ToR won't support my 10TB a month up/down consumption...
2021-06-25 13:25:02	matsaman	quartz: n proxies is n as hard
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2021-06-25 13:25:10	quartz	matsaman: proxies as in vpns?
2021-06-25 13:25:18	matsaman	quartz: kind of
2021-06-25 13:25:27	Psi-Jack	Not kind of.. They pretty well are garbage. You MIGHT be able to get a connection, keep it for a bit, but it will never be reliable, even with the best WAP.
2021-06-25 13:25:31	matsaman	as stated earlier, most people think 'VPN' means what 'proxy' means
2021-06-25 13:25:37	Dagmar	Feuermagier: Well, just be aware that you're just paying a euro and a half a month to require someone to file one additional piece of paperwork later on
2021-06-25 13:25:38	matsaman	most people use 'VPN' services as a simple, single proxy
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2021-06-25 13:26:05	matsaman	because torrents sites say "use VPN, stay anonymous!"
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2021-06-25 13:26:13	matsaman	it's somewhat of an abuse of the term 'VPN'
2021-06-25 13:26:21	Psi-Jack	matsaman: Hence my point earlier. :)
2021-06-25 13:26:22	Dagmar	There's really no guarantee a for-pay VPN provider isn't keeping their own logs of usage
2021-06-25 13:26:31	matsaman	yup
2021-06-25 13:26:45	matsaman	it's not a huge risk for torrenting, which has pretty low risk even if you consider it a crime
2021-06-25 13:26:48	tradar	i think they log everything ĸeĸ
2021-06-25 13:26:51	Psi-Jack	Of which as I said, I will not argue about it. Simply correct understanding, and move on.
2021-06-25 13:26:53	matsaman	but for other things you should think twice for srue
2021-06-25 13:26:55	c705	Dagmar: no, but you can use history to make an educated guess
2021-06-25 13:26:57	quartz	Uhh, I thought that the collection of IP addresses of various VPN services were available to the public somehow, and thus if a website/service wanted to black users from using a VPN to access their site/service, they could simply blacklist the collection of IPs from that VPN company
2021-06-25 13:27:01	Sauvin	Here's my reason for using a VPN: the server I'm using is in Atlanta. Bunch of other people are on the same server. One or two of us hook up to IRC... but which of us ?
2021-06-25 13:27:20	matsaman	quartz: they can blacklist whole networks, sure
2021-06-25 13:27:21	Feuermagier	Dagmar, a bit more to it. my VPN publishes a nice monthly report with all denied law-enforcement reports. I mean I *know* that my internet-provider is forced to log by law and my VPN is in a country that *forbids* logging by law, so I'd rather go with that
2021-06-25 13:27:23	c705	ie: how many times has the VPN provioder released logs/other data for court consumption
2021-06-25 13:27:30	matsaman	quartz: not really in their interest, though
2021-06-25 13:27:42	Psi-Jack	I use a VPN from a Hotel to get to my home network, to secure my traffic from the open insecure Hotel WiFi.
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2021-06-25 13:27:54	c705	what Feuermagier said
2021-06-25 13:28:10	Dagmar	Feuermagier: So you're 100% certain that they cannot be compelled under any jurisdiction to both comply with a discovery request *and* not say anything about having done so?
2021-06-25 13:28:15	Psi-Jack	And, ironically also gives me direct access to my home servers, in the process, because it is joining networks. :)
2021-06-25 13:28:35	-->	vitimiti (~Celtor@2a02:c7f:44ab:3100:9e3d:e97a:ef27:3f9f) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 13:28:50	Dagmar	If your VPN provider doesn't have a warrant canary of some kind set up, it's just marketing bullshit.
2021-06-25 13:29:10	Psi-Jack	I've also used VPN to join my home network to my DigitalOcean Network, AWS Network, and Vultr Network, until I no longer used Vultr, and downsized to just a single instance AWS and DO instance for the time being.
2021-06-25 13:29:18	quartz	My VPN service is located in the Seychelles. Is that OK? :)
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2021-06-25 13:29:39	Dagmar	quartz: That depends.  Are you worth blackmailing?
2021-06-25 13:29:51	Psi-Jack	quartz: I know what you did last summer!
2021-06-25 13:29:59	quartz	Dagmar: No. NOt doing anything illegal, I just want privacy and security :P
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2021-06-25 13:30:46	Feuermagier	Dagmar, oh, ofc they can. But since their buisness-model depends on them *not* doing that they have probably no interest in doing so. And european countries don't have the "gag" orders the US use regularely
2021-06-25 13:31:09	HumbleGuy	can someone please explain to me how this patch works? https://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/patches/highpriority/ i don't understand how to configure it
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2021-06-25 13:32:15	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it's a diff file
2021-06-25 13:32:42	HumbleGuy	matsaman, yeah i know it, i already patched
2021-06-25 13:32:53	matsaman	oh how it works =)
2021-06-25 13:32:54	HumbleGuy	but how to actually set up priority
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2021-06-25 13:33:27	Feuermagier	Dagmar, the process is usually "someone downloaded 'x' on your IP-address, please tell us who did it. All the VPN-Provider has to do then is to reply that they do not keep logs and that's where it ends.
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2021-06-25 13:35:59	HumbleGuy	sorry i got discconected, did you say something?
2021-06-25 13:36:12	Psi-Jack	Nope.
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2021-06-25 13:37:28	matsaman	HumbleGuy: uhhh
2021-06-25 13:37:33	schillingklaus	aren't providers legally forced to keep logs for a long period?
2021-06-25 13:37:34	matsaman	HumbleGuy: any particular bit you don't get?
2021-06-25 13:37:42	matsaman	schillingklaus: laws vary
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2021-06-25 13:38:07	matsaman	but if you use a proxy for your proxy, they'd have a log of your other proxy
2021-06-25 13:38:13	matsaman	and then the whole process starts again
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2021-06-25 13:38:46	matsaman	make your first proxy: you not being at a physical location you're normally at
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2021-06-25 13:41:13	Psi-Jack	Annnd he's off, again.
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2021-06-25 13:42:55	HumbleGuy	matsaman, i want to write a string of high priority items in config.h but don't know how
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2021-06-25 13:43:35	matsaman	HumbleGuy: oh the patch doesn't say how to even use itself, gotcha
2021-06-25 13:44:22	matsaman	HumbleGuy: it should add a -hp param to dmenu
2021-06-25 13:44:33	matsaman	-hp foo,bar,baz
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2021-06-25 13:44:49	matsaman	-hb for background color, -hf for foreground
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2021-06-25 13:45:13	matsaman	says right on the page: https://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/patches/highpriority/
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2021-06-25 13:45:23	HumbleGuy	matsaman, and what is the format of it?
2021-06-25 13:46:01	HumbleGuy	can just type firefox -hp, i will get a make error
2021-06-25 13:46:01	HumbleGuy	cant*
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2021-06-25 13:48:38	matsaman	HumbleGuy: I think you'd want dmenu -hp firefox and so on
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2021-06-25 13:49:52	HumbleGuy	OMG I KEEP getting disconnected
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2021-06-25 13:50:04	HumbleGuy	did you say soemthing?
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2021-06-25 13:51:55	jim	<matsaman> HumbleGuy: I think you'd want dmenu -hp firefox and so on
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2021-06-25 13:55:08	HumbleGuy	jim, i literally typed
2021-06-25 13:55:14	HumbleGuy	dmenu -fg mouspad
2021-06-25 13:55:26	HumbleGuy	at the bottom of config.h, and got a make error
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2021-06-25 13:55:35	HumbleGuy	i think i am not doing write
2021-06-25 13:55:40	HumbleGuy	-hp*
2021-06-25 13:55:43	matsaman	I don't think you'd try and use the command 'dmenu' from the .h file
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2021-06-25 13:55:58	matsaman	you need to alter the source code with your diff, then _build_ dmenu again
2021-06-25 13:56:03	matsaman	then run dmenu, using -hp
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2021-06-25 13:56:28	HumbleGuy	yeah, that what i did
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2021-06-25 13:57:00	matsaman	doesn't really sound like it is, but okay
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2021-06-25 13:58:23	HumbleGuy	matsaman, i added this line [SchemeHp] = { "#bbbbbb", "#333333" }, patch < dmenu-highpriority-4.9.diff, make, sudo make clean install
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2021-06-25 13:58:53	Psi-Jack	heh. suckless software. sigh.
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2021-06-25 13:59:20	HumbleGuy	then how i actually make that damn list
2021-06-25 13:59:30	HumbleGuy	of high priority itmes
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2021-06-25 14:00:28	HumbleGuy	if the devs even would drop at least a hint...
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2021-06-25 14:03:47	e36freak	but the source code is the documentation
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2021-06-25 14:07:08	banshi	what dows this mean? :    HEST: Enabling Firmware First mode for corrected errors.
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2021-06-25 14:10:55	quartz	Sorry if I"ve asked this before, but has anyone had any success getting a global menu to work on firefox or librewolf in KDE?
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2021-06-25 14:11:54	bin	whats a global menu?
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2021-06-25 14:15:27	jim	a menu of the world?
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2021-06-25 14:22:57	Sauvin	Which one of you mullets told me about -mouse-movements when using mplayer dvdnav?
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2021-06-25 14:23:51	klemax	hi
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2021-06-25 14:24:08	klemax	Is the disk on which the backup was created formatted after the clone operation on clonezilla?
2021-06-25 14:24:28	u0_a117	Hackerpcs: v
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2021-06-25 14:25:50	quartz	bin: KDE has a global menu, essentially placing the menu of various application on the top taskbar, similiar to Mac OS
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2021-06-25 14:26:16	bin	ew but ok
2021-06-25 14:26:19	bin	ty for the explanation
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2021-06-25 14:29:14	ananke	klemax: why would that be even a question? why would one want to format destination _after_ the fact?
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2021-06-25 14:30:12	klemax	ananke: who knows... maybe clonezilla would do that. I just wanted to be sure
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2021-06-25 14:31:20	klemax	ananke: I have 2 TB data and Nobody wants this data to be lost after cloning
2021-06-25 14:31:21	klemax	:P
2021-06-25 14:31:30	ice9	is this a hardware problem or what it could be? https://bpa.st/LGEQ
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2021-06-25 14:35:33	HumbleGuy	ok i figured out with dmenu , i have to run dmenu_run -hp items
2021-06-25 14:35:53	HumbleGuy	but how do i set dmenu to run with these settings at boot
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2021-06-25 14:36:22	HumbleGuy	.xinitrc? or .xprofile?
2021-06-25 14:38:27	jiffe	anyone dealt with WSL2?  I'm having problems with shared memory :\
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2021-06-25 14:40:43	onelegend	ayo waddup bros
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2021-06-25 14:45:17	matsaman	jiffe: I'd rather use cygwin
2021-06-25 14:45:49	matsaman	there's #windows-wsl I think, though
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2021-06-25 14:46:10	jiffe	so there is..
2021-06-25 14:46:58	Sauvin	If I were stuck with Windows again, I'd try the wsl before hitting on cygwin again.
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2021-06-25 14:49:03	jiffe	most things seem to work pretty well in wsl2, I'm impressed
2021-06-25 14:49:15	ananke	klemax: if clonezilla made such unsafe and asinine default assumptions, it wouldn't be the most recommended tool
2021-06-25 14:49:19	matsaman	wsl is very separate from Windows
2021-06-25 14:49:34	matsaman	it's like having a very separate VM guest
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2021-06-25 14:49:49	Sauvin	It's linux running under a hypervisor, no?
2021-06-25 14:49:56	jiffe	wsl2 is
2021-06-25 14:50:24	Sauvin	I've heard there were issues with hard drive access, think that's about the only biggie.
2021-06-25 14:51:13	matsaman	things like andlinux or vbox seamless made it pretty ...seamless already, if you really need more than cygwin
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2021-06-25 14:57:32	klemax	ananke: if the source disk 200 GB, that means i need 200 gb on dest disk? how much can clonezilla reduce size?
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2021-06-25 14:58:15	Dagmar	If you're not doing an image copy you can just use rsync
2021-06-25 14:58:16	ananke	klemax: depends of how much of said 200GB is used, and whether it's on a filesystem that clonezilla knows.
2021-06-25 14:58:51	klemax	Dagmar: its an image copy
2021-06-25 14:58:52	ananke	clonezilla has several modes, it can do either filesystem dump, or device dump
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2021-06-25 14:59:08	Dagmar	klemax: THen you're going to need 200Gb of free space
2021-06-25 14:59:13	klemax	ok
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2021-06-25 15:19:21	ulu	how can I set the clock exactly 1 minutes forward? date -s "1 minute" does not have any effect
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2021-06-25 15:20:05	Dagmar	That's not the right tool
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2021-06-25 15:20:40	Dagmar	You can't directly set the date forwared by a few minutes
2021-06-25 15:21:06	<--	MichaelLong (~ml@user/michaellong) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:21:06	Dagmar	You can tell date to calculat the time a few minutes in the future and feed the output of _that_ to date with --set="the new date/time"
2021-06-25 15:21:13	<--	mikeliuk (~mikeliuk@213.205.198.125) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:21:31	Dagmar	...but honestly you should just be enabling ntpd of chrony if you're on any kind of network.
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2021-06-25 15:22:40	Dagmar	Also if you think maybe your next shutdown might be a crash, after you've adjusted the clock you should probably run (as root) `hwclock --systohc`
2021-06-25 15:22:58	Dagmar	With a proper shutdown the software clock gets written back into the motherboard
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2021-06-25 15:23:25	Dagmar	If you just unplug the thing and power it back up, it's going to be three minutes or whatever behind again
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2021-06-25 15:26:49	onelegend	Dagmar: so when a computer is shut down, there is a battery that makes the system clock keep ticking?
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2021-06-25 15:27:02	onelegend	Like in the motherboard
2021-06-25 15:27:05	matsaman	there's usually a little battery on the mobo, yes
2021-06-25 15:27:09	onelegend	oh
2021-06-25 15:27:11	Dagmar	Yes, but it makes the _hardware_ clock keep ticking
2021-06-25 15:27:14	matsaman	a little coin battery, historically
2021-06-25 15:27:18	onelegend	dope
2021-06-25 15:27:18	Dagmar	The system clock is software driven
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2021-06-25 15:27:27	matsaman	so if you totally fuck up your BIOS, historically
2021-06-25 15:27:35	matsaman	you can crack open the computer, pull the battery, and reset it
2021-06-25 15:27:36	Dagmar	There's two of them and it's not exactly obvious which one is which
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2021-06-25 15:27:54	Dagmar	It seems like most boards are using a supercapacitor now
2021-06-25 15:28:02	matsaman	and if your computer is Frigidaire and your OS is Samsung, the clocks won't _ever match_ =P
2021-06-25 15:28:06	Dagmar	I know the last three mothboards I've used at home didn't have anything resembling a coin cell on them
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2021-06-25 15:28:15	matsaman	not surprising
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2021-06-25 15:28:46	reduce	"progress" has made is harder to replace the battery on the mb
2021-06-25 15:28:57	reduce	^it
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2021-06-25 15:29:00	Dagmar	Considering how little power they draw, you don't really need to
2021-06-25 15:29:05	matsaman	well, the success of proprietary horsecrap
2021-06-25 15:29:15	reduce	depends how long u keep your computer
2021-06-25 15:29:20	Dagmar	You can leave most motherboards off for six months or more and the clock will still be close to right
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2021-06-25 15:29:36	Dagmar	Between reboots?  A small _normal_ capacitor could keep it going
2021-06-25 15:29:54	Sauvin	reduce, "you", not "u".
2021-06-25 15:30:08	Sauvin	matsaman, mind the language.
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2021-06-25 15:34:46	byte4byte	english no furst janluage wat iz "mind the langauge" meanz?
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2021-06-25 15:37:37	byte4byte	eye a speaka broken engrish zo catur ta my
2021-06-25 15:37:52	bewees	what are the best video and display drivers for QEMU? In libvirt I tried spice and virtio, but couldn't get it work with hardware acceleration yet, display remains dark
2021-06-25 15:37:53	lacroix	byte4byte, please be kind and stop :)
2021-06-25 15:37:55	Sauvin	byte4byte, you wore out your welcome in ##linux in the former Freenode. Don't do that here.
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2021-06-25 15:38:09	-->	zro (~zro@user/zro) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:38:20	Dagmar	...and I just sent an email to root@nashville2600.org about us moving here
2021-06-25 15:38:24	Dagmar	211#$@#$ wrong channel
2021-06-25 15:38:29	Dagmar	bewees: You're not going to have a lot of luck with hardware accelleration without actual hardware
2021-06-25 15:38:34	<--	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:38:58	matsaman	can't imagine being a hacker in TN
2021-06-25 15:39:07	bewees	Dagmar: isn't virtio paravirtualized, so its doing hw acceleration through that anyways
2021-06-25 15:39:08	matsaman	or, being anything in TN =D
2021-06-25 15:39:23	Dagmar	There's not a lot of us, but when there's not a nasty pandemic on we still manage to hold a yearly convention
2021-06-25 15:39:42	Dagmar	bewees: Yes but there's still the "There can be only one!" thing going on there
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2021-06-25 15:40:12	Dagmar	bewees: It would be like tryign to run two video drivers on the same GPU.  ONly one of them can really be in control of it like that at a time
2021-06-25 15:40:17	bewees	Dagmar aren't drivers capable of doing preemptive tasks? that should be handled by syscalls and scheduler?
2021-06-25 15:40:37	Dagmar	Not like you want
2021-06-25 15:40:54	<--	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:40:58	bewees	OK, so  i can scratch hw acceleration
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2021-06-25 15:41:15	Dagmar	UNless you're trying to do that with GPUs other than the one the host is using yeah, it's not going to work out well
2021-06-25 15:41:38	bewees	So what video driver and display driver do you recommend to have the best experience and performance in QEMU with KVM?
2021-06-25 15:41:40	Dagmar	...and spice is like a virtual GPU tailor-made for remote display
2021-06-25 15:41:51	bewees	I'm running the VMs localhost
2021-06-25 15:41:54	Dagmar	If your'e trying to play video games I recomment _real hardware_
2021-06-25 15:41:55	-->	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:42:03	bewees	Nah just youtube in 4k :-)
2021-06-25 15:42:05	bewees	(if possible)
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2021-06-25 15:42:40	Dagmar	Your possible options are: PCI passthrough
2021-06-25 15:42:42	Dagmar	That is all
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2021-06-25 15:43:13	Dagmar	Pretty much everything else is suffering
2021-06-25 15:43:19	-->	LenPayne (~LenPayne@user/lenpayne) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:43:28	Dagmar	On the bright side everything generally performs just as well as an exported X display
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2021-06-25 15:44:50	bewees	Dagmar is PCI passthrough using pv drivers?
2021-06-25 15:45:05	bewees	paravirtualized*
2021-06-25 15:45:34	Dagmar	No, it's just turning exclusive control of the device over to the VM
2021-06-25 15:45:42	Dagmar	I just managed to dig this up tho. It might help you:  http://ryan.himmelwright.net/post/virtio-3d-vms/
2021-06-25 15:45:47	<--	pong (~loop@user/pong) has quit (Quit: est-ce que "autosendcmd" fonctionne correctement ?!)
2021-06-25 15:45:48	bewees	oh, that's not an option, that defeats the purpose ofmy vm :-)
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2021-06-25 15:46:15	onelegend	would virtio increase disk performance if I passed a raw partition to the VM?
2021-06-25 15:46:27	Dagmar	virtio is generally _the_ fastest disk io
2021-06-25 15:46:37	-->	pong (~loop@user/pong) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:46:48	Dagmar	The only time I know of when you wouldn't want to use virtio is when your actual storage media is SSDs
2021-06-25 15:47:03	Dagmar	_Then_ you need to use virt scsi, becuase virtio doesn't pass the TRIM calls down properly
2021-06-25 15:47:04	bewees	Dagmar what's the second best alternative without passthrough, something paravirtualized, virtio probably I guess? and for display?
2021-06-25 15:47:10	-->	Lope (~lope@user/lope) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:47:31	bewees	i want to avoid giving exclusive control to any resource
2021-06-25 15:47:32	Lope	how can I see my LAN IP (AND SUBNET) **NOT IN CIDR** format?
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2021-06-25 15:47:44	Dagmar	bewees: Not my baliwick.  I play on bare metal because I've better things to do with my time
2021-06-25 15:47:55	Lope	I normally run `ip addr show ethfoo` but that shows CIDR format.
2021-06-25 15:47:55	<--	Thedarkb-Desktop (~beno@2001:bb6:b404:188f:ed43:8fa4:28e4:715b) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:47:59	Dagmar	Lope: travel back to 1996?
2021-06-25 15:48:01	bewees	Dagmar hehe fair :-)
2021-06-25 15:48:15	Dagmar	bewees: I do a lot of stuff with VMs but games aren't on that list
2021-06-25 15:48:17	<--	ax562 (~ax562@user/ax562) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:48:18	Lope	Dagmar, initramfs.conf can't handle CIDR format
2021-06-25 15:48:22	<--	pong (~loop@user/pong) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-25 15:48:40	bewees	Dagmar I like to just watch movies or youtube videos. Not planning to play on VMs
2021-06-25 15:48:42	<--	Cienisty (cloak@user/cienisty) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-25 15:48:45	Dagmar	Which is dumb because I've written shell scripts to convert cidr addresses to classed notation
2021-06-25 15:48:50	Dagmar	Just look the netmask up on a table
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2021-06-25 15:49:03	Lope	Dagmar, I'm scripting this
2021-06-25 15:49:20	-->	Cienisty (cloak@user/cienisty) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:49:20	bewees	But when I tried virtio for video, then my browser crashes playing youtube videos in 4k in fullscreen
2021-06-25 15:49:24	bewees	(used it with spice)
2021-06-25 15:49:29	Dagmar	Well, then seriously consider just writing a quick bash function that will convert a network size to a netmask
2021-06-25 15:49:31	Dagmar	It's just binary math
2021-06-25 15:49:35	bewees	thats when I thought i need hardware accel
2021-06-25 15:49:46	Dagmar	Bash can bitshift 32-bit ints with no problem
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2021-06-25 15:51:17	Dagmar	I thought after a year or two most people could just rattle off the netmask for say, a /29
2021-06-25 15:51:25	bewees	My irc client (quassel) fails autocompleting your nick Dagmar, why is that
2021-06-25 15:51:37	c705	irc client is broken
2021-06-25 15:51:47	bewees	Ok let me restart
2021-06-25 15:51:49	Dagmar	Maybe it's seeing some other similar match
2021-06-25 15:52:09	Lope	dagmar: I see ifconfig gives the subnet mask :)
2021-06-25 15:52:16	Lope	that's a trip down memory lane.
2021-06-25 15:52:17	<--	ax562 (~ax562@user/ax562) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:52:30	Dagmar	Lope: Now I'm seriously considering digging those functions out and putting htem into github with the caveat: "DO NOT BOTHER ME ABOUT YOUR IPV6 ISSUES"
2021-06-25 15:52:34	-->	straykitten (~straykitt@subs24-116-206-8-21.three.co.id) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:52:40	onelegend	IPv6 is awesome
2021-06-25 15:52:49	-->	ax562 (~ax562@user/ax562) has joined #linux
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2021-06-25 15:52:52	bewees	Nope, also I don't see Dagmar in the user list on the right, weird
2021-06-25 15:53:05	bewees	seems my irc client is indeed broken
2021-06-25 15:53:05	Dagmar	yes but no one in the right damn mind is specifying netmasks for ipv6 in any format other than CIDR
2021-06-25 15:53:10	onelegend	oh
2021-06-25 15:53:17	-->	CrustY (~crusty@2001:a61:3b63:cb01:bfc3:3357:e84d:d7b0) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:53:28	Dagmar	Like seriously... 255.255.255.255.255.255.255.255.255.252.0..0?
2021-06-25 15:53:30	-->	jackal (jackal@2001:470:1f0b:647::2) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:53:30	matsaman	ipv6 is so awesome I dream about it at night omfg
2021-06-25 15:53:34	Dagmar	Scrreeeeew that
2021-06-25 15:53:39	<--	ahungry (~user@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:54:06	Dagmar	I've shown those functions to a few people and at one point even my boss asked "does it handle ipv6"?
2021-06-25 15:54:10	Dagmar	It's a dumb question
2021-06-25 15:54:15	-->	surfer91 (~surfer91@102.67.16.112) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:54:23	surfer91	hello peeps
2021-06-25 15:54:24	lacroix	Dagmar, your boss is in this channel :)
2021-06-25 15:54:31	Dagmar	Nope
2021-06-25 15:54:42	surfer91	I'm looking for a laptop model very very very compatible with linux drivers
2021-06-25 15:54:44	Dagmar	...and I'm pretyt sure the look on my face told him all he needed to know about rethinking that questions.
2021-06-25 15:54:47	surfer91	i had debugging hardware
2021-06-25 15:54:52	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:55:16	matsaman	Dagmar: that's really what the internet is missing
2021-06-25 15:55:36	matsaman	Dagmar: that "You are this close to being murdered" look on people's faces
2021-06-25 15:55:44	-->	KnoP_ (~KnoP@p57b1920f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:55:50	Dagmar	matsaman: A droning chant of network engineers reciting netmasks for ipv6 addresses until He Who Has 255 Heads appears to consume us all?
2021-06-25 15:56:00	Dagmar	Oh that wasn't the look I gave him
2021-06-25 15:56:01	matsaman	heh
2021-06-25 15:56:10	matsaman	well, looks anyway
2021-06-25 15:56:20	Dagmar	THe look I gave was one of the patience you show a small child trying to pull open a door clearly marked "push"
2021-06-25 15:56:21	matsaman	expression & gestures & body language go a long way in real life
2021-06-25 15:56:30	matsaman	hahahah
2021-06-25 15:56:32	matsaman	that too
2021-06-25 15:56:41	Dagmar	We weren't even using ipv6 addresdsing
2021-06-25 15:56:55	-->	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:57:17	surfer91	anyone have a Yoga Slim 9i and know if all of the hw works immediately running linux?
2021-06-25 15:57:25	-->	donofrio (~donofrio@c-68-40-123-74.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:57:54	Dagmar	surfer91: I have had pretty good luck just buying off-lease Dell Latitudes
2021-06-25 15:58:27	matsaman	surfer91: that lenovo branded or thinkpad
2021-06-25 15:58:36	surfer91	you mean EOL? where do you get them? Dagmar
2021-06-25 15:58:52	-->	tscopp (~tms@c-76-115-26-235.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:58:57	surfer91	matsaman lenovo
2021-06-25 15:58:58	<--	HawkinsTheWizard (~HawkinsTh@102.39.162.206) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:58:59	jackal	hi there
2021-06-25 15:59:04	Dagmar	surfer91: THe only thing to really watch out for in laptop-space is touchscreens are a bit hit-or-miss, the hybrid nVidia/Intel GPUs are still a damn nightmare to configure unless your distro has a package for it, and of course, unless the wifi chipset is Intel, make sure it's on a minipcie card so if it doesn't work you can take it out, set it on fire, and spend the $12 for a new one that isn't crap
2021-06-25 15:59:08	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e94:c247::688b:de0a) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 15:59:09	matsaman	'works immediately' is pretty blah
2021-06-25 15:59:20	<--	KnoP (~KnoP@p57b1920f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:59:20	-->	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e94:c247::688b:de0a) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 15:59:22	matsaman	I'd definitely check the wireless hardware isn't awful
2021-06-25 15:59:23	<--	u0_a117 (~u0_a117@191.35.79.147) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-25 15:59:33	matsaman	the rest is so likely to work without issue
2021-06-25 15:59:35	Dagmar	surfer91: Is there a craigslist for your city?  That seems to be where the people who buy up lots of off-lease buisness laptops sell them off
2021-06-25 15:59:36	jackal	can i have some assist on updating latest kernel on debian
2021-06-25 15:59:46	<--	KnoP_ (~KnoP@p57b1920f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-25 15:59:47	matsaman	and stolen macs
2021-06-25 16:00:25	Dagmar	And EOL is end-of-life usually, which may be what the people leasing them are thinking, but for the most part it just means "two years old"
2021-06-25 16:00:42	<--	CodeSpelunker (~CodeSpelu@user/codespelunker) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-25 16:00:57	velix	What was the name of the linux standard directory scheme?
2021-06-25 16:01:00	surfer91	Dagmar yup
2021-06-25 16:01:11	Dagmar	Other than it has a 1366x768 screen my latitude runs freakin' VMs just fine, although I'm about to upgrade it to an SSD and probably max out the RAM
2021-06-25 16:01:12	ayecee	fsstd, filesystem standard
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2021-06-25 16:01:26	Dagmar	Mainly it depends on whether I can find a cheap one with a 17" higher resolution display
2021-06-25 16:01:27	<--	Guest53 (~textual@170.250.221.149) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 16:01:31	velix	ayecee: I thought something like FHS?
2021-06-25 16:01:34	matsaman	FHS
2021-06-25 16:01:37	Dagmar	THe lack of screen estate causes me more problems than anytrhing else
2021-06-25 16:01:41	-->	Guest53__ (~textual@170.250.221.149) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 16:01:48	velix	ayecee & matsaman: Thanks.
2021-06-25 16:01:54	matsaman	although it's not really 'the linux standard directory scheme'
2021-06-25 16:01:54	-->	AlexJD (~AlexJD@82-69-90-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #linux
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2021-06-25 16:02:02	matsaman	it's more like 'a standardized directory scheme'
2021-06-25 16:02:02	velix	I know, but I really mean this ;)
2021-06-25 16:02:04	matsaman	that is irreelvant =)
2021-06-25 16:02:09	Dagmar	We have two standards, which isn't quite the same as a double standard.
2021-06-25 16:02:09	matsaman	irrelevanvanantntn
2021-06-25 16:02:10	surfer91	Dagmar unfortunately i'm a design snub...
2021-06-25 16:02:16	surfer91	the lattitudes I've seen were big bricks
2021-06-25 16:02:25	surfer91	snoob*
2021-06-25 16:02:32	surfer91	snob* I guess
2021-06-25 16:02:37	Dagmar	surfer91: Yeah so if someone wants to steal it from you, you can slap them with it and then call paramedics
2021-06-25 16:02:45	Dagmar	The Inspirons are kind of cut-rate trash
2021-06-25 16:02:56	THE_GFR|W	what's a "snoob" ? is that a cross between a snob and a noob?
2021-06-25 16:03:04	<--	AlexJD (~AlexJD@82-69-90-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 16:03:07	THE_GFR|W	heh
2021-06-25 16:03:09	Dagmar	I've got a chrome skull & crossbones on the lid
2021-06-25 16:03:19	Dagmar	THey sell them for cars, but they stick to laptops just fine
2021-06-25 16:03:46	THE_GFR|W	lol
2021-06-25 16:04:03	<--	smoolbanana (~smoolbana@user/smoolbanana) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-25 16:04:46	-->	Helmholtz1 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 16:04:59	Helmholtz1	I want to copy the output of my script ran from a desktop file
2021-06-25 16:05:04	<--	tusko (~yeurt@user/tusko) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 16:05:10	<--	paul424 (~tom@ip-37-248-158-24.multi.internet.cyfrowypolsat.pl) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 16:05:13	Helmholtz1	Exec=bash -c 'myscript | tail -1 | xclip -selection clipboard'
2021-06-25 16:05:15	Helmholtz1	why this doesnt
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2021-06-25 16:05:33	c705	why this doesn't wht
2021-06-25 16:05:36	Helmholtz1	work
2021-06-25 16:05:43	surfer91	i just remembered -- there's some open source laptop manufacturers that shit with linux on board right?
2021-06-25 16:05:51	Helmholtz1	I mean it doesn't copy the last line to clipboard
2021-06-25 16:05:54	c705	how the hell should I know
2021-06-25 16:05:59	c705	what does `myscript` do
2021-06-25 16:06:01	surfer91	so everything is guaranteed to work....
2021-06-25 16:06:10	Helmholtz1	c705, it works when ran from a terminal session
2021-06-25 16:06:17	Helmholtz1	note that the line is inside a desktop file
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2021-06-25 16:07:02	hm19	Hi guys. Is there a terminal emulator for Linux which I can select output from the terminal using shift key / shift&ctrl + arrow keys? Like you would in a text editor
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2021-06-25 16:07:37	Helmholtz1	c705, https://dpaste.com/GGXAWE4CC
2021-06-25 16:07:41	surfer91	hm19 the shortcuts will be different, but lookup the docs for tmux and screen
2021-06-25 16:07:42	Helmholtz1	here is the desktop file
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2021-06-25 16:09:14	Dagmar	Probably not since those keypresses are generally expected to go into applications running in the window
2021-06-25 16:09:17	phogg	hm19: not that I know of. Also, it would have to be a feature of the shell (or whatever other program you're running) instead. Otherwise there would be no way to pass those key sequences to a program that might need them.
2021-06-25 16:09:50	surfer91	phogg i know screen can do it
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2021-06-25 16:10:03	phogg	surfer91: only in copy mode
2021-06-25 16:10:06	surfer91	but i don't use tmux so i can't speak for it specifically
2021-06-25 16:10:13	phogg	and that proves my point, it's not the terminal emulator doing it
2021-06-25 16:10:13	surfer91	phogg yes in copy mode
2021-06-25 16:10:37	surfer91	that's a minute distinction that he might not care about
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2021-06-25 16:12:22	phogg	Even in screen/tmux I don't think there's a way to make a copy-mode selected value go into the X clipboard. You would have to do some arcane config trickery at the least.
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2021-06-25 16:13:20	surfer91	no, it can work with x clipboard
2021-06-25 16:13:24	surfer91	ive done it before
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2021-06-25 16:13:53	surfer91	haven't had a linux comp in years, so i cant give the specifics but i know i've done it
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2021-06-25 16:14:14	Dagmar	It's still voodoo
2021-06-25 16:14:29	Helmholtz1	c705, nvm..I wasn't calling the desktop file actually 😮
2021-06-25 16:14:33	phogg	surfer91: I've heard of people setting it up, but it's arcane config trickery
2021-06-25 16:15:43	hm19	thanks
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2021-06-25 16:24:30	velix	Windows 11 can run many Android and Linux applications (ARM + Intel) with GUI soon.
2021-06-25 16:24:33	<--	nullptr_ (~nullptr@user/nullptr/x-2182142) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-25 16:24:35	velix	it's a crazy time we're living in
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2021-06-25 16:25:30	Sauvin	Times are coming when Windows will be able to run *, but you'll need at least 1TB of RAM to do it.
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2021-06-25 16:25:56	Sauvin	Recommended minimum RAM just to get it to boot at all will be something like 64GB.
2021-06-25 16:26:01	velix	Sauvin: you'll need TPM >= 1.2 for Windows 11 ... So this will be ... crazy.
2021-06-25 16:26:12	velix	Microsoft didn't say, if that's for "Designed by Windows" computers
2021-06-25 16:26:14	Sauvin	What's TPM?
2021-06-25 16:26:26	velix	Trusted Platform Module
2021-06-25 16:26:51	Sauvin	As one shepherd said to the other: "What the flock is THAT!?"
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2021-06-25 16:27:01	velix	I don't have one on my motherboard. So I cannot install Windows 11 :-(
2021-06-25 16:27:15	Sauvin	Oh, it's just more lock-in?
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2021-06-25 16:27:25	Mekaneck	i thought this was a support channel.....
2021-06-25 16:27:27	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-25 16:27:27	velix	Sauvin: security stuff...
2021-06-25 16:27:37	velix	Mekaneck: how can we help you?
2021-06-25 16:27:48	Sauvin	Mekaneck, it's more of a community channel, but yes, if you want or need help, ASK!
2021-06-25 16:28:04	Mekaneck	and iirc there's a offtopic channel
2021-06-25 16:28:27	velix	Mekaneck: Okay, what's your question?
2021-06-25 16:28:52	Mekaneck	i don't have a questions, i'm just annoyed by the offtopic chatter
2021-06-25 16:29:16	phogg	offtopic chatter is rather the norm than the exception when there aren't any questions being asked
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2021-06-25 16:29:22	Mekaneck	and since Windows isn't open source it doesn't belong here
2021-06-25 16:29:32	Mekaneck	just my 2 cents
2021-06-25 16:29:36	velix	Mekaneck: I talked about a way to run android and normal linux applications on Windows.
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2021-06-25 16:29:58	velix	Mekaneck: That's a big benefit for developers of linux applications.
2021-06-25 16:30:04	Mekaneck	sure
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2021-06-25 16:30:52	johnnyapol	would be cool to see a more proper port of the chromeos android container system to regular linux distros
2021-06-25 16:31:38	velix	johnnyapol: I Android x86 still alive? Let me google.
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2021-06-25 16:32:15	Mekaneck	Android x86 is still alive
2021-06-25 16:32:16	velix	latest release: 14 months ago
2021-06-25 16:32:28	phogg	it's just resting
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2021-06-25 16:32:50	onelegend	velix: https://www.android-x86.org/releases/releasenote-8-1-r6.html
2021-06-25 16:32:53	animeshnik	hi
2021-06-25 16:33:00	johnnyapol	even then its not as convenient to spin up a VM (and usually its very slow without the proper acceleration)
2021-06-25 16:33:04	onelegend	latest release: 2 days ago
2021-06-25 16:33:13	velix	onelegend: Oh, Wikipedia is late again.
2021-06-25 16:33:17	Mekaneck	velix: 23rd of june to be exact https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11282
2021-06-25 16:33:25	velix	wait,  Android 8.1.0 ?
2021-06-25 16:33:30	velix	Aren't we at >= 11 ?
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2021-06-25 16:33:43	Mekaneck	they are actually at 9
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2021-06-25 16:34:07	Mekaneck	i never understood their releases
2021-06-25 16:34:23	ok_xpto	hi
2021-06-25 16:34:43	matsaman	hi ok
2021-06-25 16:34:54	velix	Nice, I'll try it. Thanks
2021-06-25 16:34:54	phogg	I said hi once.
2021-06-25 16:35:18	velix	"Hai" is the German word for "shark", but it sounds like "Hi". Yeah, more fun...
2021-06-25 16:35:27	HumbleGuy	where do i configure with what options a program will start at boot?
2021-06-25 16:35:29	kfrench	OShark!
2021-06-25 16:35:31	HumbleGuy	for example dmenu
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2021-06-25 16:36:11	phogg	HumbleGuy: dmenu doesn't run at boot.
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2021-06-25 16:37:14	HumbleGuy	well how does it start then?
2021-06-25 16:37:17	HumbleGuy	with dwm i mean
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2021-06-25 16:37:23	bewees	Dagmar can you have multiple QEMU processes with PCI passthrough for the video resource or can only one VM have exlusive PCI passthrough?
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2021-06-25 16:38:01	phogg	HumbleGuy: at boot the kernel runs your initd, then initd starts everything else by some means. It may start a display manager which presents a login prompt, and after logging in the display manager will start your window manager
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2021-06-25 16:38:35	onelegend	once you pass a GPU to a VM using PCIe passthrough, you are unable to use the GPU for another VM or for your bare metal machine
2021-06-25 16:38:46	phogg	HumbleGuy: you probably rely on a window manager keybinding or config to run dmenu, or on config in some other program e.g. some bar program maybe.
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2021-06-25 16:39:12	HumbleGuy	phogg, i start my dispaly manager with startx
2021-06-25 16:39:28	HumbleGuy	then how do i confugre how dmenu will start
2021-06-25 16:39:30	phogg	HumbleGuy: then your window manager will most likely launch from your .xinitrc
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2021-06-25 16:39:38	rapha	why the frag would mounting _one_ nfs share work, but mounting another hang indefinitely, with the only visible difference being that the first one is an hdd and the second an ssd?
2021-06-25 16:39:51	phogg	HumbleGuy: regardless dmenu is run by your wm or whatever launcher you use (it's nothing to do with boot).
2021-06-25 16:40:11	phogg	rapha: the underlying disk type will not make a difference
2021-06-25 16:40:36	phogg	rapha: however, making a 2nd connection to the server may not be working
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2021-06-25 16:40:52	phogg	rapha: if you umount both and remount in the other order does the same thing happen?
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2021-06-25 16:41:26	rapha	phogg: in that case i oversimplified the problem in asking the question. 2 shares are working, the third one is not, no matter what order i try to make the mounts in, or on what client boxes.
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2021-06-25 16:41:50	phogg	rapha: interesting
2021-06-25 16:42:09	rapha	as in, even if it's a fresh boot of both the host and one client, and this specific share is the first mount attempt, it will hang indefinitely.
2021-06-25 16:42:09	phogg	rapha: and access to the mountpoint from the server side works as expected?
2021-06-25 16:42:25	rapha	(and it used to work before the recent os update on the host, phogg)
2021-06-25 16:42:38	rapha	yes, on the server, the mount point works just fine.
2021-06-25 16:42:45	rapha	no ssd problems in dmesg either.
2021-06-25 16:42:56	kedamono	i have a fairly new install of xubuntu on my thinkpad i'm trying to set up. so i'm trying to download something through snapcraft, right. it keeps stalling out while trying to install core18, ending with either an unexpected EOF error or just stalling out until the download stops due to a 0.0bps download speed. anybody know why this is happening?
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2021-06-25 16:42:59	phogg	rapha: I am no NFS expert, but I would next dial up logging on the server side (and then the client)
2021-06-25 16:43:16	rapha	after the os update, first _none_ of the shares would moount without hanging indefinitely, phogg, but on the clients adding vers=3 made _the_other_ shares work, just not _this_ one.
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2021-06-25 16:43:51	rapha	not much logging available, but i can try tcpdump
2021-06-25 16:43:53	phogg	rapha: you can get nfs debug logging going with rpcdebug(8)
2021-06-25 16:44:00	rapha	oh, okay!
2021-06-25 16:44:32	phogg	like I said, not an expert but I've diagnosed weird nfs problems with that before. Once. Good luck! Come back if you get more info but no success.
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2021-06-25 16:44:41	rapha	k
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2021-06-25 16:46:32	Kyv	HumbleGuy: dmenu doesnt go in ~/.xinitrc unless you have a specific reason.
2021-06-25 16:46:47	Kyv	Such as launching a menu selection on startup.
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2021-06-25 16:47:13	Kyv	By default it is mapped to MOD+p in dwm.
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2021-06-25 16:47:50	banshi	How it comes that blkid changed for /home partition? I mean, that id shown by blkid and id in /etc/fstab are different
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2021-06-25 16:48:01	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i got it, i have to edit dwm to configure how dwm will start
2021-06-25 16:48:10	HumbleGuy	dmenu* will start
2021-06-25 16:48:16	rapha	should only happen via reformatting banshi
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2021-06-25 16:49:47	banshi	rapha: and that's damn weird...
2021-06-25 16:50:01	Kyv	HumbleGuy: that's right.
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2021-06-25 16:50:10	Kyv	It is not an application that runs all the time as it may seem.
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2021-06-25 16:50:11	rapha	banshi: not arguing :)
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2021-06-25 16:51:47	rapha	phogg: do you know how to get /proc/sys/sunrpc/*debug* ? they're missing on my host, so can't do that rpcdebugging thing :-/
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2021-06-25 16:53:55	phogg	rapha: has to be compiled in (CONFIG_NFS_DEBUG)
2021-06-25 16:54:10	phogg	at least so I imagine, I always enable that option and I seem to have the files
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2021-06-25 16:54:23	rapha	ah dang
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2021-06-25 16:57:25	rapha	phogg: fixed it. adding an fsid to every single export did it.
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2021-06-25 16:57:33	phogg	rapha: hmm, weird
2021-06-25 16:57:43	rapha	maybe, but also now i get to go home.
2021-06-25 16:58:20	phogg	rapha: total success, then.
2021-06-25 16:58:30	rapha	indeed :)
2021-06-25 16:58:38	rapha	thank you for making me dig a little deepr!
2021-06-25 16:58:55	phogg	that's what we're here for
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2021-06-25 16:59:01	rapha	:)
2021-06-25 16:59:02	phogg	making people solve their *own* problems
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2021-06-25 17:00:41	rapha	it's a tall order, though ... i bet that jesus guy could tell a tale of that
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2021-06-25 17:02:05	terminalpusher	I am still having this problem. https://i.imgur.com/Z8CJPRD.png Is a fix upstream yet?
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2021-06-25 17:02:25	terminalpusher	It happens rarely but sometimes
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2021-06-25 17:05:47	rapha	terminalpusher: that's not a lot of info to go on...
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2021-06-25 17:06:15	terminalpusher	rapha: are you trying to tell me it's not a well-known problem?
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2021-06-25 17:06:30	rapha	terminalpusher: i'm trying to tell you i don't know what i'm looking at in that screenshot.
2021-06-25 17:06:33	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::1) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 17:06:50	terminalpusher	a graphical bug. This is in the browser. It's supposed to be an image
2021-06-25 17:07:02	-->	Guest53 (~textual@170.250.221.149) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 17:07:13	terminalpusher	But this happens in all parts of this Linux system so it's not specifically browser-related
2021-06-25 17:07:29	terminalpusher	It was only that single image of the whole website
2021-06-25 17:07:38	HumbleGuy	the devs of this patch https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/xfce4-panel/ says that .xinit autostart will be fine, can use .xprofile instead?
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2021-06-25 17:07:47	rapha	terminalpusher: so, what browser? what windowing system? what linux distribution? what kernel? what GPU hardware? which driver for that GPU? which website? which image on that website?
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2021-06-25 17:09:02	terminalpusher	completely unrelated to that specific image. With a reload of that tab I can no longer reproduce it.
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2021-06-25 17:09:28	terminalpusher	but I was expecting this to be fairly well-known as I've seen many other people have the same issue
2021-06-25 17:09:33	rapha	so to answer your earlier question: i've never myself seen anything what you describe/show.
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2021-06-25 17:10:36	HumbleGuy	did anyone say anything? i get disconnected
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2021-06-25 17:12:03	terminalpusher	HumbleGuy: at least no message related to your question
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2021-06-25 17:13:45	nevoyu	Just as I was about to answer....
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2021-06-25 17:13:58	rapha	lol
2021-06-25 17:14:10	rapha	what's going on with your client HumbleGuy
2021-06-25 17:14:14	nevoyu	HumbleGuy, .xprofile works if you use a display manager
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2021-06-25 17:15:06	nevoyu	likely restarting his irc client due to dwm not having a restart option so you have to exit and restart the x session
2021-06-25 17:15:46	HumbleGuy	rapha, i don't know, it keep happening ever time, am going to press enter to send an important message and before that i get disconnected
2021-06-25 17:15:46	neshpion	someone showed me a way to keep windows open while restarting dwm, but i forgot it
2021-06-25 17:15:52	HumbleGuy	nevoyu, got it
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2021-06-25 17:16:02	neshpion	is it enough to simply `while :; exec dwm; done`?
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2021-06-25 17:16:30	rapha	HumbleGuy: you might want to ssh+tmux into some box that's permanently online.
2021-06-25 17:16:32	Kyv	neshpion: you start dwm in a loop
2021-06-25 17:16:35	tusko	one does not simply while :; exec dwm; done
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2021-06-25 17:17:16	nevoyu	there's a bash script in the dwm page on the arch wiki that restarts dwm
2021-06-25 17:17:21	HumbleGuy	rapha, am going to try this, thanks
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2021-06-25 17:18:42	Kyv	tusko: thats exactly what you do.
2021-06-25 17:18:57	neshpion	arch wiki shows running `dwm 2> ~/dwm.log` in a `while true` loop, so almost the same thing i wrote
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2021-06-25 17:21:37	tusko	back in the day, before linux was taken over by the SJW, it would have been done differently
2021-06-25 17:21:38	Kyv	I have the line sourcing that from an external script.. its commented out.
2021-06-25 17:21:42	Kyv	I just start it the usual way.
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2021-06-25 17:22:16	Kyv	wut
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2021-06-25 17:27:01	c705	" before linux was taken over by the SJW" .. lol wut
2021-06-25 17:27:36	akoana	neshpion: why exec dwm in a while loop - doesn't exec never return (on success)?
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2021-06-25 17:27:58	neshpion	akoana: i could have remembered wrong. the arch wiki loop doesn't use exec
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2021-06-25 17:28:24	akoana	ok, without exec I'd guess it's ok
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2021-06-25 17:29:06	neshpion	yeah i just tried `while :; do exec :; done` and it just closed my shell :P
2021-06-25 17:29:17	akoana	hehe
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2021-06-25 17:29:28	akoana	that's why i asked...
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2021-06-25 17:29:50	Sauvin	tusko, what would have been done differently?
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2021-06-25 17:30:58	neshpion	akoana: maybe i accidentally added exec because i've seen other people write their .xprofile with `exec something &` to launch startup programs
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2021-06-25 17:31:19	Kyv	You can exec the script containing the loop itself.
2021-06-25 17:31:27	akoana	neshpion: ah, I see
2021-06-25 17:31:47	neshpion	hmm, now reading `help exec` i think i will add exec to my startup programs >.>
2021-06-25 17:31:51	neshpion	unsure if there is any actual benefit
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2021-06-25 17:31:57	Kyv	You dont do that.
2021-06-25 17:32:15	neshpion	i do what i want!
2021-06-25 17:32:17	Sauvin	neshion, do you know what 'exec' does?
2021-06-25 17:32:27	Kyv	The only thing that should be getting exec'd is your window manager.
2021-06-25 17:32:33	neshpion	Sauvin: looks like it just replaces the shell process with whatever is being executed
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2021-06-25 17:32:42	akk	Everybody's heard about the WD MyBook exploit, right? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/mass-data-wipe-in-my-book-devices-prompts-warning-from-western-digital/
2021-06-25 17:32:51	neshpion	Kyv: what's wrong with `exec thing &` ?
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2021-06-25 17:32:58	neshpion	it's a background job
2021-06-25 17:33:10	akk	For people who keep their main storage device exposed to the whole internet without a firewall.
2021-06-25 17:33:13	Kyv	Yeah, killing dwm kills X in this case, it's the "kill client".
2021-06-25 17:33:21	<--	terminalpusher (~terminalp@2a01:586:12f9:1:d70b:45c8:183b:b050) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 17:33:28	Kyv	When it is run with exec.
2021-06-25 17:33:47	akoana	neshpion: without exec,   "thing &"  is still a background job
2021-06-25 17:33:47	Kyv	neshpion: yes you background startup processes a lot of the time, with '&'
2021-06-25 17:34:26	Kyv	running exec on all those will nullify the rest of the script
2021-06-25 17:34:42	akoana	^^ after exec cmd your shell is gone
2021-06-25 17:35:03	neshpion	but & starts another shell doesn't it?
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2021-06-25 17:36:20	akoana	yes, exec cmd &  allows your shell to continue
2021-06-25 17:36:44	neshpion	so there shouldn't be a problem if i turn all my `command &` into `exec command &` in my .xprofile
2021-06-25 17:36:48	akoana	but there is no need usually, cmd & is enough...
2021-06-25 17:36:55	<--	qlixed (~qlixed@181.44.129.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-25 17:37:04	neshpion	but which way is more leet?
2021-06-25 17:37:08	akoana	no, but what's the benefit?
2021-06-25 17:37:15	neshpion	i don't know
2021-06-25 17:37:49	akoana	another question for #bash (If you dare :)
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2021-06-25 17:38:01	nevoyu	I dare #bash
2021-06-25 17:38:08	<--	TJ- (~root@2a01:7e00:e001:ee00:ea6f:38ff:fed4:3289) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-06-25 17:38:57	 *	akoana waiting for nevoyu to be eaten by a grey cat ;)
2021-06-25 17:39:26	Kyv	neshpion: https://termbin.com/tdzi
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2021-06-25 17:39:31	 *	rifl bites on akoana's head 
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2021-06-25 17:39:57	 *	akoana is glad to have poisoned hairs
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2021-06-25 17:40:28	nevoyu	I just dared bash\
2021-06-25 17:40:58	akoana	I'm watching it...
2021-06-25 17:41:26	nevoyu	just got a grammar tip so far
2021-06-25 17:42:03	 *	rifl cries 
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2021-06-25 17:42:20	akoana	nevoyu: wait a bit, greycat's already on the scout for you
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2021-06-25 17:43:49	neshpion	Kyv: why am i looking at your pstree?
2021-06-25 17:43:59	neshpion	is this a euphemism?
2021-06-25 17:44:14	Kyv	Is it?
2021-06-25 17:44:22	neshpion	i'm not gonna show you mine >.>
2021-06-25 17:44:24	nevoyu	yeah in the meantime I'll work on learning emacs..
2021-06-25 17:45:01	Kyv	I mean I suppose you have looked at your processes, and if you experiment with your startup script
2021-06-25 17:45:07	Kyv	you can look at those
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2021-06-25 17:45:34	Kyv	But that is typically how things are going to settle into themselves
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2021-06-25 17:46:31	Platonides	/22/91
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2021-06-25 17:46:50	 *	DPA gives rifl a jar of honey
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2021-06-25 17:47:10	themachine	so long as it isn't a honey pot
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2021-06-25 17:48:12	rifl	I want pizza i want more  *shrug*
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2021-06-25 17:48:44	themachine	honey on pizza?
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2021-06-25 17:48:59	neshpion	opened a fresh bag of Takis and i can see the chips through the spice ;_;
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2021-06-25 17:50:22	DPA	Honey is a supersaturated liquid with disinfecting properties. It can help with a lot of things. I'm not sure how pizza would help.
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2021-06-25 17:52:29	nevoyu	DPA, it tastes good if you screw everything else up.
2021-06-25 17:52:31	omero	I will now delete the word pizza from my client configuration
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2021-06-25 17:53:08	 *	themachine could go for some pizza
2021-06-25 17:53:18	omero	anchovies and capperi?
2021-06-25 17:53:32	omero	please. no pineapples.
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2021-06-25 17:54:16	DPA	I like pineapple pizza...
2021-06-25 17:54:27	Kyv	good for you
2021-06-25 17:54:35	omero	I have filed a proper complaint already. pizza and pineapple qualifies as a crime agains human rights.
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2021-06-25 17:55:01	nevoyu	I eat any kind as long as the crust, cheese, and sauce are all good.
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2021-06-25 17:55:41	LimeOn	blue cheese+anchovies
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2021-06-25 17:56:05	smoolbanana	nevoyu, I read "I eat any kid..."
2021-06-25 17:56:06	omero	ah ... ok... thus... as long as its still warm, eh nevoyu ?
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2021-06-25 17:56:40	Dagmar	There are worse things.
2021-06-25 17:57:17	Dagmar	nevoyu: How about with _corn_ and bannana.
2021-06-25 17:57:17	nevoyu	omero, yep. Because I never buy pizza, so free pizza is best pizza.
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2021-06-25 17:57:44	nevoyu	Dagmar, I have yet to see that.
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2021-06-25 17:58:02	omero	Ive heard one weird onw... peaches and ... some blue cheese.
2021-06-25 17:58:18	omero	gorgonzola and peaches?
2021-06-25 17:58:20	Dagmar	nevoyu: I'm on a FB group for delivery drivers.  I have seen _terrible_ things posted there
2021-06-25 17:59:11	omero	I even heard that some eat pizza with pepperoni.
2021-06-25 17:59:19	omero	its peperoni.
2021-06-25 17:59:33	omero	single p.
2021-06-25 17:59:37	phogg	uh...
2021-06-25 17:59:53	Dagmar	You mean like Sir Pizza?
2021-06-25 17:59:53	omero	trust me... peperoni is spelled with one p
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2021-06-25 18:00:12	Kyv	There are certain areas of the world where these pizza perversions are more common.
2021-06-25 18:00:13	phogg	omero: I don't disagree with you, but the OED does.
2021-06-25 18:00:17	Dagmar	The people who read about pizza once and decided to make some from a half-remembered description
2021-06-25 18:00:18	Kyv	Like Brazil.
2021-06-25 18:00:21	themachine	it's definitely spelled with two ps
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2021-06-25 18:00:31	nevoyu	I'll be honest plain classic peperonni and cheese is still good once in a while.
2021-06-25 18:00:33	Dagmar	Square cut, and _ground_ pepperoni
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2021-06-25 18:00:39	phogg	themachine: unless you're italian
2021-06-25 18:00:40	LimeOn	pepperoni pizza is good
2021-06-25 18:00:49	omero	I will not fall into this pitfal(with one l)
2021-06-25 18:01:19	themachine	phogg:  Now I'm not italian, I'm just reading wikipedia. It says this though:  peperoni, the plural of peperone, the Italian word for bell pepper
2021-06-25 18:01:27	omero	and yes. pizza with melanzane and peperoni is quite good (you can add onions too)
2021-06-25 18:01:55	bewees	onelegend: thanks! thats what i thought
2021-06-25 18:01:55	Dagmar	Yes, but that pepperoni should be in round slices
2021-06-25 18:02:00	Dagmar	...not ground up like bacon bits.
2021-06-25 18:02:19	HumbleGuy	i patched this https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/xfce4-panel/ and now regret it, how do i reverse it?
2021-06-25 18:02:22	omero	ok, ... I can explain.
2021-06-25 18:02:30	Kyv	So the grease can properly pool up in the middle of them like little piggy petals.
2021-06-25 18:02:31	phogg	themachine: in terms of trusted sourced on English you should start and stop with the OED, unless exception circumstances apply
2021-06-25 18:02:34	bewees	onelegend: unless you bitmap parts of the gpu memory like qubes does in xen0 somehow :-)
2021-06-25 18:02:40	phogg	er, exceptional
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2021-06-25 18:02:51	phogg	themachine: and yes, that is the italian word (but not the English word)
2021-06-25 18:03:09	themachine	phogg: Yes, I read that on the page about pepperoni (with two ps)
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2021-06-25 18:03:34	themachine	though with all this talk I feel we may be off topic
2021-06-25 18:03:40	Sauvin	Some bell peppers, some banana peppers, a pinch or three of ground white pepper, a halfway liberal splattering of ground black pepper, maybe some jalapenos, diced onions, some mushrooms, hot Italian sausage..... mmmmm....
2021-06-25 18:03:45	themachine	but I guess pizza could be considered open source
2021-06-25 18:03:45	phogg	themachine: never fear about that (I never do)
2021-06-25 18:03:47	neshpion	themachine: not if it's GNU/Pizza
2021-06-25 18:03:52	HumbleGuy	help? patch -R doesnt work
2021-06-25 18:04:15	Sauvin	HumbleGuy, what does it do?
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2021-06-25 18:04:27	HumbleGuy	it adds xfce4-panel in dwm
2021-06-25 18:04:28	Dagmar	It's not going to work unless you also supply the patch you want to revert, and you actually just applied that patch
2021-06-25 18:04:37	phogg	HumbleGuy: provide the exact command you are running
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2021-06-25 18:04:57	omero	themachine, its... complicated
2021-06-25 18:05:09	Dagmar	I can also not revert a patch that was not able to be applied to begin with.
2021-06-25 18:05:13	Kyv	Sauvin: if your black pepper splatters, I'd check the date on it.
2021-06-25 18:05:14	HumbleGuy	phogg, you mean what i tried? http://dpaste.com/9U257G3HX
2021-06-25 18:05:28	neshpion	HumbleGuy: do you have the directory under version control?
2021-06-25 18:05:51	Dagmar	Did you previously *apply* that patch?
2021-06-25 18:06:04	HumbleGuy	neshpion, what is that
2021-06-25 18:06:16	HumbleGuy	Dagmar, i applied and it works
2021-06-25 18:06:19	HumbleGuy	but i dont like it
2021-06-25 18:06:20	Sauvin	s/splattering/sprinkling/;
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2021-06-25 18:06:40	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: WEll, that means you get to delete things an re-untar
2021-06-25 18:06:44	omero	uhm ... that seems a case of ... diff gone wrong?
2021-06-25 18:07:00	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: Or you can always look at the rej file and try to make the change manually
2021-06-25 18:07:02	neshpion	HumbleGuy: e.g. git
2021-06-25 18:07:20	omero	or a patch gone wrong... reverse patch maybe...
2021-06-25 18:07:20	Dagmar	...or you can accept the fact that part of the patch didn't apply in the first place and therefore can not be reverted.
2021-06-25 18:07:25	neshpion	and sadly i can't see your paste because it's blocking both tor and my proxy IPs :(
2021-06-25 18:07:45	phogg	dpaste is not the most stellar of pastebins
2021-06-25 18:07:47	themachine	so who else uses awesomewm
2021-06-25 18:08:28	phogg	neshpion: here is HumbleGuy's paste re-pasted https://termbin.com/ndfd
2021-06-25 18:08:31	 *	Psi-Jack uses gnome-shell.
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2021-06-25 18:08:42	phogg	themachine: why do you ask?
2021-06-25 18:08:43	DPA	I always make sure any sources are in a git repo. Makes it much easier to just "git checkout" and "git reset" stuff.
2021-06-25 18:08:43	neshpion	phogg: thanks
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2021-06-25 18:08:51	 *	phogg uses e16
2021-06-25 18:08:53	themachine	phogg: no reason in particular
2021-06-25 18:08:54	nevoyu	HumbleGuy, have you looked into config.def.h.rej?
2021-06-25 18:08:59	Dagmar	You can also try interpretive dance, but it's not likely to help.
2021-06-25 18:09:06	Kyv	HumbleGuy: take config.def.h.rej and dwm.c.rej and add the lines which are meant to be added by hand.
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2021-06-25 18:09:30	neshpion	DPA ++
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2021-06-25 18:09:34	themachine	Dagmar: I think that only works building
2021-06-25 18:10:16	nevoyu	or just make and post it into a git repo and let me fix it for you.
2021-06-25 18:10:16	Dagmar	THat's okay the whole problem is silly
2021-06-25 18:10:16	HumbleGuy	The first time the patch didnt work so i patched it manually. I have to only delete the lines in config.h? yes?
2021-06-25 18:10:16	Kyv	Otherwise, if you have backups, remove the files it had written to, restore those and recompile.
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2021-06-25 18:10:19	Dagmar	Something in the build harness is probably replacing the .h file
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2021-06-25 18:10:46	Kyv	HumbleGuy: config.h is generated with config.def.h
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2021-06-25 18:10:54	HumbleGuy	strangel make doesnt generate any errors
2021-06-25 18:11:00	HumbleGuy	strangley*
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2021-06-25 18:11:23	Kyv	that can throw errors if you try to run make with the old config.h
2021-06-25 18:11:40	Dagmar	Amazing how many times I said "the patch didn't apply in the first place" and was ignored
2021-06-25 18:11:53	phogg	I was ignored once
2021-06-25 18:12:10	Kyv	Who ignored you?
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2021-06-25 18:12:17	Dagmar	The behaviour of patch/diff is _very_ deterministic
2021-06-25 18:12:19	Kyv	Only part of the patch was not applied.
2021-06-25 18:12:23	HumbleGuy	Dagmar, it was aplied
2021-06-25 18:12:33	Dagmar	" The first time the patch didnt work so i patched it manually."
2021-06-25 18:12:52	Dagmar	THat means you get to undo that part manually, and once again ignore the part that won't revert for obvious reasons.
2021-06-25 18:12:54	HumbleGuy	Sorry i was confused by terminology
2021-06-25 18:13:27	phogg	repeat after me "git reset --hard"
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2021-06-25 18:13:35	phogg	and then begin again
2021-06-25 18:13:45	Dagmar	No biggie, but once code is in that state, it's usually easier to just wipe it and grab a fresh copy
2021-06-25 18:13:54	neshpion	in this case saying "the patch applied" has specific meaning that `patch(1)` did the application.  if you manually edited in lines according to a patch file, that's different and should be described as "i modified the file"
2021-06-25 18:14:04	nevoyu	HumbleGuy, just add " static const char panel[][20]       = { "xfce4-panel", "Xfce4-panel" }; /* name & cls of panel win */ " at the top of your config
2021-06-25 18:14:36	nevoyu	then in your window rule add " { panel[1],   NULL,       NULL,       (1 << 9) - 1, 0,           -1 }, "
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2021-06-25 18:15:23	 *	HumbleGuy is thinking of an answer
2021-06-25 18:15:53	Kyv	If those are indeed the lines that need to be patched in, patch them to config.def.h, not config.h.
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2021-06-25 18:16:20	Kyv	diff the changes between the two, transfer ones you want to keep over and rm config.h before running make
2021-06-25 18:16:21	neshpion	and then run `make clean` before building again
2021-06-25 18:16:24	nevoyu	Kyv, they are according to the patch file https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/xfce4-panel/dwm-xfce4-panel-20210611-67d76bd.diff
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2021-06-25 18:17:24	nevoyu	I bet HumbleGuy uses another patch that modifies the config layout like one of the gap patches.
2021-06-25 18:17:51	neshpion	gotta have those window thigh-gaps
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2021-06-25 18:18:15	nevoyu	Not me, I don't use them or even a bar, lol
2021-06-25 18:18:22	Kyv	Good man.
2021-06-25 18:18:22	neshpion	:O
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2021-06-25 18:18:26	 *	Kyv shakes nevoyu's hand.
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2021-06-25 18:18:58	neshpion	don't tell me you tell time by wearing a watch
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2021-06-25 18:19:14	nevoyu	Nope I use a bash scipt
2021-06-25 18:19:20	HumbleGuy	ok nvm i just deleted the lines manually
2021-06-25 18:19:33	neshpion	my bash script is just a date format string
2021-06-25 18:19:37	neshpion	but it runs in i3blocks :D
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2021-06-25 18:20:33	nevoyu	The reason I do this is because my display resolution is 1366x768
2021-06-25 18:20:33	Kyv	for dwm that is just a looping xsetroot command usually
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2021-06-25 18:20:51	neshpion	ah
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2021-06-25 18:21:05	neshpion	nevoyu: sad!
2021-06-25 18:21:16	nevoyu	I used to use slstatus with a bar, but after a while I just wanted the 8 pixels back.
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2021-06-25 18:22:25	nevoyu	neshpion, it's by choice, I don't watch a lot of media nor do a lot of programming. Most of my computer time is spent checking email and reading rss feeds.
2021-06-25 18:22:39	Kyv	slstatus seems a bit cumbersome for what it does
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2021-06-25 18:23:13	nevoyu	Kyv, so does dwmblocks
2021-06-25 18:23:25	neshpion	nevoyu: i can get behind that.  i wouldn't have minded the resolution on my T420 but the TN panel's colors were so far off I had to upgrade to IPS
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2021-06-25 18:32:15	Kyv	One thing that has annoyed me is that setting root window bg is not compatible with compton/picom.
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2021-06-25 18:32:49	Kyv	But hsetroot on the other hand, is compatible, and it can also set gradients.
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2021-06-25 18:33:20	nevoyu	Meh I use feh for that,
2021-06-25 18:33:27	Kyv	setting root window with xsetroot, I mean.
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2021-06-25 18:33:44	nevoyu	oh
2021-06-25 18:34:01	Kyv	solid colors
2021-06-25 18:35:06	Kyv	It sets images and can do some minor img manipulation itself on the fly
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2021-06-25 18:35:11	Kyv	so I have replaced feh with it
2021-06-25 18:35:19	jim	meh feh?
2021-06-25 18:35:49	nevoyu	feh is just like nitrogen just more minimal
2021-06-25 18:36:02	Kyv	well
2021-06-25 18:36:07	Kyv	feh is an image viewer
2021-06-25 18:36:12	nevoyu	it's also that too
2021-06-25 18:36:36	nevoyu	Been using it so long that I keep forgetting that, lo
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2021-06-25 18:40:22	Kyv	I used it as a sort of backend for a good while, to set backgrounds using sxiv
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2021-06-25 18:44:07	lazar	what's the defacto linux vpn client?
2021-06-25 18:44:42	nevoyu	lazar, pick one
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2021-06-25 18:46:01	johnnyapol	I use openconnect for school since they use cisco anyconnect. Wireguard looks like a great choice for a consumer VPN
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2021-06-25 18:46:32	lazar	whaddabout openvpn?
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2021-06-25 18:47:07	lazar	nevoyu: has to be one of the best, not just anyone.
2021-06-25 18:48:31	nevoyu	lazar, again pick one. they all work.
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2021-06-25 18:49:22	lazar	Vulns and unwanted leaks and so forth matter. It's very serious business.
2021-06-25 18:49:25	nevoyu	wireguard is the new kid on the block, openvpn is the tried and true. both are in the kernel already
2021-06-25 18:49:30	lazar	I can't just arbitrary pick stuff.
2021-06-25 18:49:40	Gaffoonie	I use openvpn for a work connection often, nmcli on my laptop.
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2021-06-25 18:51:45	nevoyu	lazar, then take your time and lookup the vulnerabilities and decide for yourself. Alternatively, don't use the internet.
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2021-06-25 18:53:44	lazar	nevoyu: I am taking my time and looking up the vulns and history and so and and so forth for myself. That is not disjunct or mutually exclusive with chatting with linux nerds and potential professionals in here about it. Are you fucking retarded?
2021-06-25 18:54:03	rascul	wireguard is good stuff
2021-06-25 18:54:04	-->	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 18:55:03	lazar	Nice. Looking at it.
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2021-06-25 18:55:12	nevoyu	lazar, nope just very non commitle because everytime I would give a recommendation on something like this I get the "this does all that, but better and more" respose.
2021-06-25 18:55:23	Kyv	The time's now to arbitrarily pick an IRC user to pick your vpn client.
2021-06-25 18:55:45	lazar	Kyv: I'm obviously not.
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2021-06-25 18:56:05	akik	neoweb: openvpn in the kernel?
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2021-06-25 18:56:53	akik	oh nevoyu left
2021-06-25 18:57:06	lazar	he's still here
2021-06-25 18:57:26	nevoyu	I never leave mwahahahaha
2021-06-25 18:57:31	akik	stay a while
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2021-06-25 18:59:29	mworkman72	any Suse Linux experts in here?
2021-06-25 18:59:59	Psi-Jack	None.
2021-06-25 19:00:16	Psi-Jack	But, don't let that hold you back. Ask an actual question instead of polling.
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2021-06-25 19:01:33	Linkandzelda	anyone know if its possible to have ssh wrapped as mosh?
2021-06-25 19:01:45	mworkman72	trying to install xfce on suse linux
2021-06-25 19:01:55	Psi-Jack	So, do it.
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2021-06-25 19:01:56	Kyv	thats not a question
2021-06-25 19:02:01	akik	Linkandzelda: mosh uses ssh by default
2021-06-25 19:02:29	Psi-Jack	Install the xfce pattern, per https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce
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2021-06-25 19:02:48	nevoyu	mworkman72, I believe there's an option for that in yast
2021-06-25 19:02:53	jim	mworkman72, are you stuck doing the install?
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2021-06-25 19:04:28	mworkman72	I am not sure what is going on, I was able to download the xfce package, but it will not install, says "metadata not valid"
2021-06-25 19:04:59	Psi-Jack	mworkman72: And how are you coming to reach this issue?
2021-06-25 19:05:31	nevoyu	tumbleweed or leap?
2021-06-25 19:05:40	<--	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:920c:8a00::d995) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-25 19:05:55	Khaytsus	People still use suse?
2021-06-25 19:06:10	nevoyu	apparently, btw I use gentoo
2021-06-25 19:06:19	mworkman72	well, my Suse Linux is a VM in Azure Cloud, I opened a support ticket about the issue, but was wondering if this is a common Linux issue so thought I would ask here
2021-06-25 19:06:37	Psi-Jack	Why would you be trying to even run X11 on a remote VM?
2021-06-25 19:06:40	-->	ripdog (~quassel@user/ripdog) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 19:06:49	Psi-Jack	Stop it!
2021-06-25 19:06:53	akik	Psi-Jack: if their use case needs it
2021-06-25 19:07:02	Psi-Jack	That would never be the case.
2021-06-25 19:07:06	akik	mworkman72: use the package manager to install it, not an individual package
2021-06-25 19:07:18	mworkman72	ok
2021-06-25 19:07:21	akik	Psi-Jack: yes it is. i do it every day for our service
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2021-06-25 19:07:30	Psi-Jack	Then you
2021-06-25 19:07:45	Psi-Jack	Then you're "doing it wrong"(c)(tm)
2021-06-25 19:07:49	akik	Psi-Jack: nope
2021-06-25 19:07:50	nevoyu	Psi-Jack, I have a VM that uses an application that requires a gui tool.....
2021-06-25 19:08:01	rob`	Windows users have a GUI on RDP all the time, I mean, why not
2021-06-25 19:08:06	akik	Psi-Jack: you just haven't opened your eyes yet
2021-06-25 19:08:08	nevoyu	it's also a windows vm so.....
2021-06-25 19:08:11	Psi-Jack	X, maybe, you can run X stuff without a DE.
2021-06-25 19:08:28	Psi-Jack	And you can run most X stuff, without even a real display server.
2021-06-25 19:08:43	-->	mikail (~mikail@90.212.77.3) has joined #linux
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2021-06-25 19:08:52	Psi-Jack	So, again. "doing it wrong"(c)(tm)
2021-06-25 19:08:58	akik	Psi-Jack: nope
2021-06-25 19:09:00	<--	mikail_ (~mikail@90.212.77.3) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 19:09:02	rob`	Psi-Jack: it's people like you that give linux a bad name, you're being an elitist schmuck dictating the One Correct Way To Do Things, and everyone else is an idiot. This is not the first time I've seen you go off like this.
2021-06-25 19:09:14	rob`	Stop wanking and if you can't be helpful, shut up.
2021-06-25 19:09:27	Khaytsus	I disagree rob`
2021-06-25 19:09:29	Khaytsus	Why s hould he stop wanking
2021-06-25 19:09:39	akik	not in public! :)
2021-06-25 19:09:58	mikail	Arch-Linux question: from the CLI how can I list just the packages that I installed from AUR via the GUI?
2021-06-25 19:10:00	nevoyu	I could be wanking right now :)
2021-06-25 19:10:15	rud0lf	that's the beauty of irc
2021-06-25 19:10:27	akik	i'm naked below my clothes
2021-06-25 19:10:28	rud0lf	i could have no pants on now
2021-06-25 19:10:44	Khaytsus	Spanking it to #linux is weird, but okay
2021-06-25 19:11:03	nevoyu	mikail, pacman -Qe
2021-06-25 19:11:03	rob`	rule 34
2021-06-25 19:11:23	onelegend	who cares about rules lol
2021-06-25 19:11:24	nevoyu	I think
2021-06-25 19:11:25	onelegend	fuck
2021-06-25 19:11:26	akik	afraid to check out /r/linux on reddit
2021-06-25 19:11:27	onelegend	shit
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2021-06-25 19:11:52	onelegend	rob`: there's elitism towards all operating systems
2021-06-25 19:12:11	nevoyu	Use Gentoo, it's the best distro
2021-06-25 19:12:15	mikail	nevoyu, that lists everything, how can I restrict what got installed from AUR?
2021-06-25 19:12:45	akik	mikail: you know absolutely anybody can put stuff into aur?
2021-06-25 19:12:53	onelegend	isn't a distro just another package manager
2021-06-25 19:13:06	onelegend	or maybe some small tweaks to the kernel
2021-06-25 19:13:07	mikail	akik, I know but there is some really useful shit in there like postman
2021-06-25 19:13:40	jim	onelegend, please watch your language while you're here
2021-06-25 19:14:03	-->	sumthing1980 (~sumthing1@94.54.64.154) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 19:14:04	onelegend	oh
2021-06-25 19:14:54	jim	onelegend, there are distros without package managers, and there are distros whose package managers are in common with other package managers
2021-06-25 19:15:12	nevoyu	mikail, my bad -Qm is what I ment -Qpm will list foreign packages so there's your aur list
2021-06-25 19:15:37	mikail	nevoyu, nice!! thanks mate
2021-06-25 19:15:38	<--	johnnyapol (~discord@2001:19f0:5:4889:5400:3ff:fe06:dbe8) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 19:15:47	CerealKiller	mikail: watch your language, or else you will get Hurd
2021-06-25 19:15:52	-->	johnnyapol (~discord@2001:19f0:5:4889:5400:3ff:fe06:dbe8) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 19:16:14	mikail	CerealKiller, wdym?
2021-06-25 19:16:17	<--	Lope (~lope@user/lope) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-25 19:16:20	akik	wdym?
2021-06-25 19:16:58	sumthing1980	hello can a vps really have 256 mb ram and still run ubuntu for example?
2021-06-25 19:17:05	johnnyapol	yes
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2021-06-25 19:17:18	CerealKiller	mikail: Hurd is like Linux, but it doesn't even work in a VM
2021-06-25 19:17:19	tusko	yes, but it is inequitable
2021-06-25 19:17:19	Psi-Jack	Barely, but yes.
2021-06-25 19:17:21	danieldg	pretty sure you can run ubuntu with 128mb or less
2021-06-25 19:17:22	rs	Maybe.
2021-06-25 19:17:40	Kyv	Oh, Brave has their own search engine now using mostly their own index.
2021-06-25 19:17:42	tusko	it would be considered an oppressive dominance hierarchy
2021-06-25 19:17:43	Kyv	Who is switching?
2021-06-25 19:17:43	nevoyu	I've gotten Hurd to boot on hardware once!
2021-06-25 19:17:59	Khaytsus	You can run any distro in init 3 with 128m, sure..
2021-06-25 19:18:05	Khaytsus	Installing is tricky on some
2021-06-25 19:18:06	sumthing1980	If I want to run a certain php script for a webcrawler for example, how much is left for the php script after ubuntu has eaten its share?
2021-06-25 19:18:08	CerealKiller	nevoyu: unreal!
2021-06-25 19:18:10	johnnyapol	is brave's search engine bing-based like most of the non-google ones
2021-06-25 19:18:22	Khaytsus	Kyv: Nobody.
2021-06-25 19:18:23	CerealKiller	nevoyu: what hardware?
2021-06-25 19:18:25	mikail	CerealKiller, :)
2021-06-25 19:18:31	johnnyapol	sumthing1980:web crawling is going to be tough with such little ram. you'll be hitting swap.
2021-06-25 19:18:43	danieldg	Khaytsus: cloud images mean you don't need to install it :)
2021-06-25 19:18:45	Kyv	Khaytsus: someone's switching.
2021-06-25 19:18:50	Kyv	Probably Brave users will switch.
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2021-06-25 19:19:01	nevoyu	CerealKiller, right? I don't remember what I did. But I had to recompile it. this was like 6 years ago
2021-06-25 19:19:02	Khaytsus	danieldg: Yes I'm aware, there are methods
2021-06-25 19:19:04	rs	Choose a web browser and use it or let it use you.
2021-06-25 19:19:09	Khaytsus	Kyv: Nope, nobody.
2021-06-25 19:19:17	onelegend	danieldg: oh hi!
2021-06-25 19:19:21	sumthing1980	johnnyapol: it is just a few mbs downloads even if it uses swap it wont be such a big deal
2021-06-25 19:19:30	onelegend	you're also on the #crypto channel
2021-06-25 19:19:34	nevoyu	Kyv, it doesn't show my website and I can't find out how to add it.
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2021-06-25 19:20:59	GunArm	is there any more specific command I can use to remove leading and trailing hyphens from a string than just running two sed regexes?
2021-06-25 19:21:04	Kyv	I am only just looking at it.
2021-06-25 19:21:20	Kyv	Enough time to learn that blocking javascript doesnt appear to break it.
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2021-06-25 19:24:53	Khaytsus	GunArm: um, two will work I suppose.  One would as well.
2021-06-25 19:25:05	akoana	like sed -E 's/^-(..*)-$/\1/'
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2021-06-25 19:25:22	Khaytsus	yeah
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2021-06-25 19:26:47	jim	GunArm, you could run one sed
2021-06-25 19:26:56	-->	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 19:27:11	Khaytsus	That's what akoana sed
2021-06-25 19:27:18	jim	oh ok
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2021-06-25 19:28:31	jim	that looks like it would only remove one - from each side, and they both must be present in order for the left side of the sed arg to match
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2021-06-25 19:29:05	jim	dunno if that's what you want or not
2021-06-25 19:29:22	Khaytsus	It could be written better sure, but we don't know his inputs
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2021-06-25 19:30:30	jim	yeah ok, and maybe we (or someone) needs those inputs to give a left arg that would do what he wants
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2021-06-25 19:31:18	akoana	sed 's/^-//;s/-$//'  # leading/trailing "-" optional
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2021-06-25 19:34:08	tusko	this excludes the case where your - does not identify as leading or as trailing
2021-06-25 19:34:28	akoana	yes, intentionally
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2021-06-25 19:34:46	akoana	but leading/traling was asked for
2021-06-25 19:34:52	akoana	trailing*
2021-06-25 19:35:16	tusko	we should strive to use more inclusive language in the future
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2021-06-25 19:35:32	akoana	sed  -E 's/^-+//;s/-+$//'  # for optional one or more leading/trailing '-'
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2021-06-25 19:37:18	onelegend	suse linux is kinda sus
2021-06-25 19:37:35	-->	siika_ (~siika@139.226.50.41) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 19:38:09	abacus	is it possible to run something that does the same as these parameters: "isolcpus=1-3 nohz_full=1-3 rcu_nocbs=1-3" but during runtime without having to reboot?
2021-06-25 19:38:26	johnnyapol	onelegend:amogOS is the real sus linux https://github.com/jostroOS/amogOS
2021-06-25 19:38:30	onelegend	lol
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2021-06-25 19:39:32	kodah	oh yeezus
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2021-06-25 19:39:46	kodah	red star linux is just old sussy at this point
2021-06-25 19:40:08	GunArm	sorry had to run off cause I thought someone stole my amazon packages lol.  thanks for the regexes
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2021-06-25 19:40:58	rs	That would be tragic.
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2021-06-25 19:41:39	GunArm	esp since they are my wifes birthday presents ;p
2021-06-25 19:42:34	tusko	ew, you shop at Amazon
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2021-06-25 19:43:18	Kyv	You can't buy your wife's birthday presents on Amazon, can you?
2021-06-25 19:43:21	Kyv	Is that allowed?
2021-06-25 19:44:09	GunArm	i'll have to check the rules
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2021-06-25 19:47:45	Kyv	The big book says there is an exception for certain kinds of batteries, as well as for home circumcision kits.
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2021-06-25 19:53:25	Kyv	kodah: I thought old sussy changed their policy on having all but the N. Korean intranet blocked by default.
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2021-06-25 20:14:03	onelegend	I'm making a new distro
2021-06-25 20:14:10	onelegend	it's gonna be epic
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2021-06-25 20:14:42	Sauvin	How will it differ from existing distros?
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2021-06-25 20:14:55	circuitbone	disco distro, you will make the hoppers happy.
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2021-06-25 20:15:42	onelegend	it's gonna use fancy UI and fancy controls with lots of integrations with normie stuff. Plus use a lot of false advertising such as "sleek new design" and "a revolutionary kernel"
2021-06-25 20:16:00	onelegend	but in reality just be a KDE customization slapped ontop of debian
2021-06-25 20:16:02	Sauvin	What is "normie stuff"?
2021-06-25 20:16:04	onelegend	or arch
2021-06-25 20:16:11	onelegend	Sauvin: social media
2021-06-25 20:16:22	onelegend	idk what I'm even typing tbh
2021-06-25 20:16:29	onelegend	maybe I'm going insane
2021-06-25 20:16:50	Sauvin	How about we agree to speak English in this channel? Example: "I don't know", not "idk", and "to be honest", not "tbh".
2021-06-25 20:17:25	onelegend	I just typed some random doofus statements that was meant to mock overadvertising of other operating systems
2021-06-25 20:17:37	CerealKiller	Sauvin: but those are English abbreviations
2021-06-25 20:17:48	Sauvin	No. They're SMS, and not permitted here.
2021-06-25 20:18:17	onelegend	I'll be right back in 15ish years
2021-06-25 20:18:45	onelegend	would probably wake up to a world where people are running fully open source hardware
2021-06-25 20:18:47	Sauvin	Sounds about right for devising a whole new distro. :\
2021-06-25 20:18:59	onelegend	Sauvin: yup
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2021-06-25 20:19:31	onelegend	oh and I'll make it look like it costs money, and hide the fact that you can just "donate" zero dollars to get it for free
2021-06-25 20:19:51	onelegend	then people be like, bro it's GPL, can't I just request the code
2021-06-25 20:19:53	onelegend	FUUUUUU
2021-06-25 20:20:33	Sauvin	I hear tell that MS and Apple spend expend disproportionate amounts of time and money on just polishing their UI.
2021-06-25 20:20:42	onelegend	yup
2021-06-25 20:21:07	CerealKiller	Sauvin: how is MS and UI legitimate?
2021-06-25 20:21:40	Sauvin	MS is the common way of rendering Microsoft, and UI is a technical term.
2021-06-25 20:21:56	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-25 20:22:26	CerealKiller	people abbreviate all sorts of terms in SMS
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2021-06-25 20:22:46	Sauvin	Yes, and it makes them look like idiots. If you want to fight about it, #linux-ops awaits.
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2021-06-25 20:24:54	Kyv	onelegend: your distro already exists
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2021-06-25 20:25:27	mlu	onelegend: sounds like ubuntu
2021-06-25 20:25:47	-->	Menzador (~quassel@user/menzador) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 20:25:53	Kyv	Garuda is the Linux equivalent of a flame-shooting Lambo with a custom rainwater paint-job, parked in front of a strip joint.
2021-06-25 20:25:58	Sauvin	Kubuntu out of the box ain't all that appealing.
2021-06-25 20:26:23	onelegend	garuda looks really nice
2021-06-25 20:26:45	onelegend	you know
2021-06-25 20:26:51	onelegend	maybe I should just compile the kernel from source
2021-06-25 20:27:08	onelegend	install the nix package manager, make a configuration.nix, and then run nixos-rebuild
2021-06-25 20:27:13	onelegend	NixOS from scratch
2021-06-25 20:27:15	Kyv	It's "too much".
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2021-06-25 20:28:53	nevoyu	Eh just use Gentoo and accept the distro endgame
2021-06-25 20:28:58	Khaytsus	eh, nix that
2021-06-25 20:29:14	Khaytsus	Using Gentoo is like building a boat in your basement.  It entertains you, maybe makes you a little better, but you're never going to put it in the water.
2021-06-25 20:29:38	nevoyu	It's been my daily driver for 3 months now
2021-06-25 20:30:03	onelegend	gentoo is fun
2021-06-25 20:30:11	onelegend	tbh Linux is just fun in general
2021-06-25 20:30:13	kodah	CerealKiller: if you dislike the policy, notify the network
2021-06-25 20:30:15	jim	onelegend, you want to do a dist that is pretty close to "from scratch"?
2021-06-25 20:30:31	onelegend	jim: sure
2021-06-25 20:30:45	Kyv	What about the normie stuff
2021-06-25 20:30:54	onelegend	I'm more of a compile everything from scratch with a tar.gz of the source code and a knoppix cd with gcc
2021-06-25 20:31:03	<--	bradd (~bradd@dhcp-108-170-189-238.cable.user.start.ca) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-25 20:31:08	jim	well the options being presented are pretty close to that (gentoo, also linux from scratch, an ebook)
2021-06-25 20:31:23	 *	Sauvin doesn't have the time, patience or hardware to compile a browser
2021-06-25 20:31:37	Khaytsus	First Linux I ever used was a ramdisk, an tarball, and some instructions on how to boot it and how to bootstrap more stuff
2021-06-25 20:31:39	kodah	you could do what popos does to build a facade on top of an existing OS
2021-06-25 20:31:47	kodah	but again, that's mostly theming
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2021-06-25 20:31:55	kodah	CerealKiller: Fuchs is the person to talk to
2021-06-25 20:32:09	 *	jim tosses a patient into the compiler
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2021-06-25 20:32:40	Sauvin	Doing some recruiting, are we, kodah?
2021-06-25 20:33:15	<--	beaver (~loop@user/pong) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 20:33:17	onelegend	just wondering, where can I get a legitimate install of knoppix with a noncompromised GCC compiler?
2021-06-25 20:33:19	kodah	Sauvin: i guess. more ideas to solve the problem would be good.
2021-06-25 20:33:27	onelegend	I don't trust CA's
2021-06-25 20:33:28	kodah	Sauvin: feel free to join!
2021-06-25 20:33:34	CerealKiller	kodah: about #linux-elite ?
2021-06-25 20:33:49	kodah	i don't know what that is
2021-06-25 20:33:58	Khaytsus	"uncompromised gcc" wants knoppix.  k
2021-06-25 20:34:02	-->	funsafe (~funsafe@2601:1c1:4200:938f:4e1e:fc56:b28f:5ac7) has joined #linux
2021-06-25 20:34:03	Sauvin	A channel for elite Linux users, of course.
2021-06-25 20:34:08	Khaytsus	I didn't know knoppix still even existed
2021-06-25 20:34:18	 *	rs is not elite *
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2021-06-25 20:34:24	kodah	nice, doesn't sound like it's for me
2021-06-25 20:34:26	onelegend	compiler compromise is REAL
2021-06-25 20:34:30	onelegend	REAL I SAY REAL
2021-06-25 20:34:34	<--	delta23 (~delta23@user/delta23) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-25 20:34:37	Sauvin	Eh, I'll bet knoppix could be resurrected.
2021-06-25 20:34:40	onelegend	your GCC compiler is compromised
2021-06-25 20:34:45	kodah	Sauvin: i am being serious, if you'd like to help contribute you're more than welcome
2021-06-25 20:34:54	Sauvin	Contribute to what, Kodah?
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2021-06-25 20:35:28	Khaytsus	Sauvin: Knoppix was awesome in 2000 when they were (nearly? the?) only ones with a live CD.  these days....
2021-06-25 20:35:29	kodah	Sauvin: i thought you were aware, sorry
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2021-06-25 20:35:43	onelegend	oh
2021-06-25 20:35:45	onelegend	well
2021-06-25 20:35:47	Sauvin	Aware of what?
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2021-06-25 20:36:14	 *	mlu liked Slax and Peanut Linux
2021-06-25 20:37:13	kodah	Sauvin: ping me some other time and i'll tell you about it
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2021-06-25 20:37:27	onelegend	Slackware is awesome
2021-06-25 20:37:29	onelegend	it's so stable
2021-06-25 20:37:32	Sauvin	What's wrong with now?
2021-06-25 20:37:41	onelegend	I swear, even if there's World War III
2021-06-25 20:37:51	kodah	Sauvin: i'm just wrapping up some stuff and leaving
2021-06-25 20:37:57	Sauvin	Ah.
2021-06-25 20:38:09	onelegend	Slackware will keep up with its releases every decade
2021-06-25 20:38:16	superkuh	Slax was ahead of it's time. I used to use it on my undervolted mobile AMD Barton+ mobile backpack computer.
2021-06-25 20:38:25	superkuh	-mobile
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2021-06-25 20:38:42	superkuh	Back before smartphones were a thing.
2021-06-25 20:38:58	Sauvin	My smartphone ain't all that damn smart. :\
2021-06-25 20:39:08	superkuh	I don't own one.
2021-06-25 20:39:24	superkuh	Although, the last GSM channel for my nokia 6030 died this week. :(
2021-06-25 20:39:28	rud0lf	i don't like things being called "smart" or "intelligent"
2021-06-25 20:39:34	superkuh	I'm going to have to finally get a modern crap phone.
2021-06-25 20:39:35	bsdbandit01	slackware was an awesome distro
2021-06-25 20:39:48	rud0lf	intelligence is a very complex ability...
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2021-06-25 20:40:51	Kyv	SmarterThanYou phone didnt swim about in the brain as well.
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2021-06-25 20:44:13	jim	bsdbandit01, isn't slackware still alive?
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2021-06-25 20:44:35	rascul	it is
2021-06-25 20:44:38	p0g0	Khaytsus, yggdrasil was the first live linux CD I saw, c. 1994 iirc.
2021-06-25 20:45:01	Khaytsus	yeah I was thinking there was some others but not much
2021-06-25 20:45:06	jim	yeah, I remember seeing ygg back then
2021-06-25 20:45:16	<--	alzgh (~alzgh@216.155.158.214) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-25 20:45:21	p0g0	And for 2 points, who can tell me where the slack in slackware came from...
2021-06-25 20:45:35	p0g0	(hint, Reverend Bob Dobbs).
2021-06-25 20:45:38	jim	that I don't remember
2021-06-25 20:45:50	superkuh	https://ia800202.us.archive.org/19/items/Public_Service_Announcement/psa_small_512kb.mp4
2021-06-25 20:46:00	rascul	slax is debian now
2021-06-25 20:46:14	rud0lf	p0g0: can you tell where "soft" in microsoft came from?
2021-06-25 20:46:20	jim	well debian did take a few idea from slack
2021-06-25 20:46:39	rascul	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slax#Slax_9
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2021-06-25 20:46:43	jim	where did the micro come from
2021-06-25 20:46:47	p0g0	rud0lf, sure, but you already know.
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2021-06-25 20:47:34	sumthing1980	what is the easiest way to setup raid with onboard sata ports
2021-06-25 20:47:45	sumthing1980	any gui you know?
2021-06-25 20:48:01	jim	is slax the same as slackware?
2021-06-25 20:48:18	rascul	no
2021-06-25 20:48:21	superkuh	Nope.
2021-06-25 20:48:29	rascul	slax used to be slackware-live thoguh
2021-06-25 20:48:34	rascul	*though
2021-06-25 20:48:35	p0g0	OK, so back when things like the CoEvolution Quarterly, magazines, were still the thing, there was "High Weirdness By Mail", run by an outfit that called itself "The Curch of the Subgenius"
2021-06-25 20:48:41	p0g0	*Church
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2021-06-25 20:49:11	p0g0	And that outfit came up with the notion of "slack" as the great struggle.
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2021-06-25 20:50:21	p0g0	you can witness this yourself at www.subgenius.com  a serious dive into retro web stuff.
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2021-06-25 20:56:48	Khaytsus	sumthing1980: eh?  just use mdadm and google it, it's not hard
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2021-06-25 20:57:02	sumthing1980	yes doing it
2021-06-25 20:57:18	sumthing1980	when you move harddrives that you made raid mirror to another computer what happens
2021-06-25 20:57:40	Khaytsus	mdadm is entirely portable
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2021-06-25 20:57:55	Khaytsus	never use fakeraid on a mobo..
2021-06-25 20:57:56	sumthing1980	can you use both drives as regular image
2021-06-25 20:58:04	Khaytsus	Not even s ure what that means
2021-06-25 20:58:43	sumthing1980	if you make mirror of your os drive can you take it out and put it into another computer and it will be a clone of the first?
2021-06-25 20:58:57	p0g0	a true mirror, yes
2021-06-25 20:59:17	rascul	the contents of the storage device won't change simply by putting it into another computer
2021-06-25 20:59:22	sumthing1980	and if you move a raid drives to another computer you have to use mdadm again?
2021-06-25 20:59:25	Khaytsus	Can y ou take a RAID 1 array and split them into two separate drives?  Pretty sure that's a no.
2021-06-25 20:59:27	p0g0	raid has different modes, mirroring is just one of them.
2021-06-25 20:59:36	Khaytsus	I could be wrong.
2021-06-25 20:59:43	sumthing1980	consider just raid1
2021-06-25 20:59:52	sumthing1980	anyway just speculating
2021-06-25 21:00:06	sumthing1980	do you need to use mdadm again if you move drives to another pc?
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2021-06-25 21:00:29	Khaytsus	No, but you'll possibly need to update the config to match the new device paths of course
2021-06-25 21:00:33	Khaytsus	otherwise nope
2021-06-25 21:00:42	p0g0	If you stripe, spread data across drives (not the same as mirroring), that gets complicated sometimes when you try to move or remove drives.
2021-06-25 21:00:50	Khaytsus	but yes, so you _can_ mount a raid1 single drive but consider it emergency...
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2021-06-25 21:01:37	p0g0	well, maybe not an emergency, but you won't have mirroring again until you add the second drive and run mdadm on the pair.
2021-06-25 21:01:44	Khaytsus	Any raid array can be moved as long as you maintain the whole array of course.  I would assume you'd have to make sure the drives are in the right order.  THAT might be interesting
2021-06-25 21:03:25	Khaytsus	Seems like I moved a raid long, long ago at work and had trouble because, well, one mobo was like 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 on SATA ports, the other was 1/4, 2/5, 3/6
2021-06-25 21:03:32	Khaytsus	So they wound up different devices
2021-06-25 21:03:42	Khaytsus	But it was sorted pretty fastttttt
2021-06-25 21:03:43	p0g0	sumthing1980, mirroring is great for some kinds of errors/events- it has no virtue beyond having a second instantaneous copy of your data.  If you corrupt your master image, that corruption will be mirrored, for example.
2021-06-25 21:04:00	Khaytsus	To expand on what p0g0 said; raid is not backup
2021-06-25 21:04:18	sumthing1980	but still raid 1 is what you do to secure your data yes?
2021-06-25 21:04:26	Khaytsus	no?
2021-06-25 21:04:31	sumthing1980	no?
2021-06-25 21:04:42	Khaytsus	Exactly what p0g0 said.
2021-06-25 21:04:48	p0g0	raid 1 addresses the loss of an entire drive.
2021-06-25 21:04:50	Khaytsus	If you write bad data, it goes to the array.
2021-06-25 21:05:02	Khaytsus	If you delete something, it's gone from both mirrors.
2021-06-25 21:05:13	Khaytsus	raid only protects you from (limited) drive failure
2021-06-25 21:05:13	p0g0	if one of the drives in a mirror dies in hardware, you still have your data.
2021-06-25 21:05:20	Khaytsus	raid.  is.  not.  backup.
2021-06-25 21:05:27	p0g0	that is about all you get with mirroring.
2021-06-25 21:05:35	sumthing1980	do you need to do anything if a drive fails and the pc should use the second drive?
2021-06-25 21:05:44	p0g0	Archiving is a different task.
2021-06-25 21:05:52	Khaytsus	If you have a drive fail you have to replace it, not sure how that's a question.
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2021-06-25 21:06:12	p0g0	sumthing1980, usually all you see is a message telling you that one of the drives has died and you should plan on replacing it ASAP.
2021-06-25 21:06:12	Khaytsus	If you use like raid 5/6 you can operate with a drive dead, but it's a pretty bad idea to do long
2021-06-25 21:06:12	sumthing1980	will the ongoing OS be affected
2021-06-25 21:06:36	sumthing1980	cant you operate with dead drive in raid 1 ?
2021-06-25 21:06:46	sumthing1980	you said yes nvm
2021-06-25 21:07:20	p0g0	sumthing1980, it may take you touching things once if the drive IDs need fixing.
2021-06-25 21:07:56	sumthing1980	yea but besides some warning messages everything will tinker on ?
2021-06-25 21:08:03	p0g0	That may depend on what dependencies are fixed in the boot sequence, like hardware addresses.,
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2021-06-25 21:08:13	sumthing1980	*while still on
2021-06-25 21:08:17	Khaytsus	sumthing1980: Sure, you can drive down the road with a spare tire for hundreds of miles too
2021-06-25 21:08:19	p0g0	sumthing1980, in my experience, yes.
2021-06-25 21:08:26	sumthing1980	ok
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2021-06-25 21:08:43	p0g0	It is intended to be a seamless event.
2021-06-25 21:08:51	sumthing1980	thats the point right
2021-06-25 21:09:06	Khaytsus	Yes, it is, but as soon as it happens you should be getting the drive swapped.
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2021-06-25 21:09:30	p0g0	well, I suspect that there will still be installations that might need some small fixes to the boot step.
2021-06-25 21:09:35	sumthing1980	and then you need to run the commands again?
2021-06-25 21:09:50	p0g0	yes, you want to initiate a new mirror
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2021-06-25 21:10:09	Khaytsus	There are specific things to do to recreate, but no you wouldn't recreate thew hole _array_
2021-06-25 21:10:20	p0g0	and you will endure a small performance hit while the new drive is mirrored.
2021-06-25 21:10:23	Khaytsus	Again, there are lots of guides on how to mdadm out there heh
2021-06-25 21:10:27	sumthing1980	I assume datacenters have automated these commands somehow
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2021-06-25 21:10:41	Khaytsus	Yes, there are also boxes that automate it..  you feed 'em drives, they jsut work
2021-06-25 21:10:50	sumthing1980	hmm
2021-06-25 21:10:55	p0g0	High availability is not a lost art...
2021-06-25 21:11:05	Khaytsus	There are also distros designed just basically for the task too
2021-06-25 21:11:22	sumthing1980	like what distro
2021-06-25 21:11:38	Khaytsus	FreeNAS/TrueNAS is one
2021-06-25 21:12:04	Khaytsus	Not to run as your desktop distro...  to use as a NAS.
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2021-06-25 21:12:56	sumthing1980	so you have 2 pcs running and you connect with shares?
2021-06-25 21:14:18	Khaytsus	Yes basically, it's a dedicated machine for NAS
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2021-06-25 21:14:51	p0g0	sumthing1980, you can run mdadm on nigh any linux installation.  The distros that are geared towards mass storage over the net (aka cloud) are more centered on being a high availibilty host to an enterprise.
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2021-06-25 21:15:43	p0g0	So yeah, they think of those installs as "servers" and may presume you want a standalone device to offer those services.
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2021-06-25 21:16:27	p0g0	Anyone trying to run a reliable distributed data system is going to keep plain old users off that box.
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2021-06-25 21:17:11	p0g0	Cause if you do something that nails the device, all your other users take the hit too.
2021-06-25 21:17:24	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-25 21:18:12	sysRPL	have you guys seen today's official list of CPU ms will require at a minimum in order to run windows 11?
2021-06-25 21:18:14	p0g0	Failover between servers is also a working tech.  You can devise systems that will trade out entire devices, not just dead hard drives,
2021-06-25 21:18:31	sysRPL	you need an intel 8th gen cpu or better
2021-06-25 21:18:42	sysRPL	or ryzen 2nd gen or better
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2021-06-25 21:19:07	rascul	go talk about it in #windows
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2021-06-25 21:19:41	p0g0	sumthing1980, managing those systems gets to be a bit fun, keeping up with which machine is really the working host at any given moment.  I used to keep a rubber duck that I'd move to the working host.  Moving the Duck was not a good thing, it meant a server had bombed.
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2021-06-25 21:20:18	sysRPL	i think this ridiculousness could be a potential boom for linux
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2021-06-25 21:21:06	Kyv	https://hristo-georgiev.com/google-turned-me-into-a-serial-killer
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2021-06-25 21:22:13	Kyv	that 2nd image cracks me up
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2021-06-25 21:24:15	sumthing1980	I have a really good MB with 2 cpus, I havent put it in a case yet, all cases I see have very few slots for harddrives, what to do?
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2021-06-25 21:25:05	sumthing1980	it has like 10 sata ports, what can I do if I wanted to connect 10 drives to it
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2021-06-25 21:25:28	p0g0	sumthing1980, you need to find an old tower case, 20+ years old or so...
2021-06-25 21:25:35	sumthing1980	even big cases have like 2 3.5 and 2 2.5 slots
2021-06-25 21:26:08	p0g0	Heck I have a half dozen old cases here, 8 slots mostly.
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2021-06-25 21:27:13	p0g0	sumthing1980, 10 drives will take a very beefy power supply- don't skimp on that, brownouts are not tolerable in hard drives.
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2021-06-25 21:27:24	sumthing1980	ok
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2021-06-25 21:30:14	p0g0	sumthing1980, but all those old server cases were built in a era of what are now tiny hard drives (100 meg stuff), you can get such a large data space on common SATA drives now, it is a bit hard to imagine needing 10 multi-terabyte drives for anything not seriously demanding masses of data.
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2021-06-25 21:31:09	sumthing1980	I bought 2 10tb drives wd gold they are noisy very hot and vibrate af
2021-06-25 21:31:11	Kyv	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/mass-data-wipe-in-my-book-devices-prompts-warning-from-western-digital/
2021-06-25 21:31:41	Kyv	the internet is not tolerable to Western Digital My Book HDs
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2021-06-25 21:32:36	sumthing1980	bummer
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2021-06-25 21:32:52	Kyv	nah its fine
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2021-06-25 21:33:04	Sauvin	I had a My Book once, and a My Passport. Both died. Never again.
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2021-06-25 21:33:49	sumthing1980	I have many passports .. yikes
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2021-06-25 21:34:00	rud0lf	are you a spy, sumthing1980 ?
2021-06-25 21:34:08	Kyv	hes Jason Bourne
2021-06-25 21:34:15	Kyv	from Bourne shell fame
2021-06-25 21:34:25	sumthing1980	Johnny Mnemonic
2021-06-25 21:34:53	rud0lf	it was a trick question, a spy never reveals he is a spy
2021-06-25 21:34:56	sumthing1980	they are not very discreet rud0lf
2021-06-25 21:35:01	Kyv	maybe he does
2021-06-25 21:35:29	rud0lf	it reminds me of picture of family reading online "jokes that only spies understand" and dad that goes "haha"
2021-06-25 21:35:32	rud0lf	:D
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2021-06-25 21:35:55	sumthing1980	easier to use micro sd s
2021-06-25 21:36:02	sumthing1980	or something
2021-06-25 21:36:17	rud0lf	or nano sds
2021-06-25 21:36:18	Libre1209	oh are people here willing to recommend external usb drives for safe storage?
2021-06-25 21:36:31	Libre1209	seems close to a recent discussion
2021-06-25 21:36:36	sumthing1980	no for spying
2021-06-25 21:36:36	Sauvin	Not really. A drive can die suddenly.
2021-06-25 21:36:58	Sauvin	It's happened. Lost lots of porn I was never able to find again.
2021-06-25 21:37:02	Kyv	Somehow they are all suspect.
2021-06-25 21:37:06	Libre1209	oh yes MyPassports are unreliable
2021-06-25 21:37:19	Libre1209	I know that is my problem
2021-06-25 21:37:33	Libre1209	both the computer disk and the backup died and it is a disaster
2021-06-25 21:37:37	sumthing1980	thats why ‎i do manual raid 1  mRAID 1 (tm) which is I put same files on another drive
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2021-06-25 21:37:58	sumthing1980	I should patent that
2021-06-25 21:38:11	rud0lf	you can use really large qr codes and print it
2021-06-25 21:38:21	Libre1209	I constantly rsync, but that doesn't help if the rsyncing and the rsynced-to drive both die
2021-06-25 21:38:21	p0g0	three copies, at a minimum, for any data you really want to keep...
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2021-06-25 21:38:34	rud0lf	is there and scannable system for printing binary data?
2021-06-25 21:38:43	Libre1209	p0g0, I seem to be learning that the hard way
2021-06-25 21:38:46	p0g0	braille?
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2021-06-25 21:38:52	sumthing1980	yes it is called TEXT
2021-06-25 21:38:54	rud0lf	that would be nice way to store your password stash
2021-06-25 21:38:59	Sauvin	rud0lf, I don't understand what you're trying to ask.
2021-06-25 21:39:02	sumthing1980	ASCII
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2021-06-25 21:39:37	Libre1209	in the old days with zip, click, jazz, etc. drives and tapes it was easy to do semiannual, monthly, weekly, daily and hourly backups
2021-06-25 21:39:40	rud0lf	Sauvin: a way to print small binary files that you can scan and recover into files
2021-06-25 21:39:53	Libre1209	does anyone have a good current solution?
2021-06-25 21:39:55	rud0lf	like qr codes but those are limited
2021-06-25 21:40:30	pnbeast	Libre1209, I think every single one of those listed devices was in the "poor reliability" category.
2021-06-25 21:40:34	Sauvin	I think you're going to find that any graphical representation of binary data is going to be a bit cumbersome.
2021-06-25 21:40:45	sumthing1980	qr is max a few kb I researched this a while back, there are some projects
2021-06-25 21:40:54	Libre1209	yes but there was so much redundancy you could manage anyway
2021-06-25 21:41:15	rud0lf	i'm still trying to wrap my head around what reed-solomon codes really are made of
2021-06-25 21:41:18	p0g0	Libre1209, I keep systems that dupe themselves as a snapshot daily, the snapshot gets duped the too.  I archive stuff on some timely basis, depending on value and time (and is someone paying me to do this).  Backups are easier than ever, you just have to automate and check that the backups actually happen and work to restore from.
2021-06-25 21:41:28	rud0lf	group theory is difficult
2021-06-25 21:41:29	pnbeast	Libre1209, sure, you "could manage", but they made it harder.  Use decent quality tapes and decent quality hard drives and you'll have more reliable backups.
2021-06-25 21:41:34	p0g0	* then too
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2021-06-25 21:42:03	Libre1209	yes but the media is so much more expensive
2021-06-25 21:42:06	rud0lf	"oh it's just GF(5) super turbo street alpha field of superviscous numbers"
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2021-06-25 21:42:22	pnbeast	Libre1209, more expensive than, say, zip disks?  No way - hard drives are much cheaper.
2021-06-25 21:42:31	Libre1209	I can't afford even just monthly, daily, and hourly backups on separate media
2021-06-25 21:42:40	p0g0	I had a client, a bank no less, that made daily tape backups for 3 years without checking them... not a one of them was valid.
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2021-06-25 21:43:00	sumthing1980	I think the real problem is the size of stuff that people think should be backed up, is rediculous
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2021-06-25 21:43:10	p0g0	You need to run the whole drill to be sure your backups restore.
2021-06-25 21:43:11	Libre1209	cheaper if you do more than one kind of backup to the same drive (thereby defeating the whole purpose)
2021-06-25 21:43:34	Libre1209	omg
2021-06-25 21:43:35	Sauvin	And if that drive dies?
2021-06-25 21:43:54	Libre1209	why are bankers and lawyers so stupid when it comes to tech
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2021-06-25 21:44:11	rud0lf	you need tech lawyer
2021-06-25 21:44:20	akoana	rud0lf: http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/
2021-06-25 21:44:26	craigevil	just use etcher and clone the drive to removeable media
2021-06-25 21:44:33	rud0lf	thank you akoana
2021-06-25 21:44:38	p0g0	Libre1209,  They tend to be managed by vested folks well removed from the working stiffs.
2021-06-25 21:44:57	rud0lf	wow 200kB on a single A4 page
2021-06-25 21:45:09	Libre1209	Yes I had a computer whose disk was very very gradually slowing down.  Anything backed up recently was totally readable, but after a week or so, it was inaccessible.
2021-06-25 21:45:33	Sauvin	It rotted.
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2021-06-25 21:45:45	Libre1209	seems so p0g0
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2021-06-25 21:46:18	akoana	rud0lf: yep + forward error correction code (it was 2007 I tried it the first time:), not bad
2021-06-25 21:46:40	p0g0	Libre1209, I have had to train lawyers for decades on how to maintain a chain of custody on documents, how to make indelible backups, stuff like that.  Technical stuff is hard for folks that don't have a background in it.
2021-06-25 21:47:10	Libre1209	ok there is Eben Moglen
2021-06-25 21:47:23	Libre1209	oh and doctors too
2021-06-25 21:48:00	sumthing1980	akoana: cool site
2021-06-25 21:48:49	Libre1209	I get emails from lawyers that are plain text with draconian nondisclosure restrictions on the content sent in clear text
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2021-06-25 21:50:04	sumthing1980	is this the command to compile : gcc -o optar optar.c   ?
2021-06-25 21:50:25	akoana	sumthing1980: there should be a Makefile
2021-06-25 21:50:31	Libre1209	so nobody knows of a good backup solution?
2021-06-25 21:50:33	sumthing1980	so what do I do
2021-06-25 21:50:42	NthDegree	sumthing1980, if you want the file to be called optar and it has no other files, yeah
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2021-06-25 21:51:04	NthDegree	the output file*
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2021-06-25 21:51:32	Sauvin	sumthing1980, is there a Makefile?
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2021-06-25 21:51:46	sumthing1980	yes
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2021-06-25 21:52:01	Sauvin	Is there also a configure or Configure file?
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2021-06-25 21:52:18	 *	akoana looking at the optar source from 2009 on my machine, there is a Makefile, downloading the most recent version...
2021-06-25 21:52:31	sumthing1980	no
2021-06-25 21:52:48	Sauvin	I've not built anything in so long I've forgotten what to do. I'd have to look at it again. :\
2021-06-25 21:52:55	craigevil	libre1209, syncthing, rcclone, with mega or other cloud drive option
2021-06-25 21:52:57	sumthing1980	me too
2021-06-25 21:53:29	NthDegree	sumthing1980, if there's just a Makefile and all the rest of the source files are in the one folder, try running make
2021-06-25 21:53:40	sumthing1980	why is there no stdio in my computer
2021-06-25 21:53:45	akoana	sumthing1980: there is a README, you'll need libpng and then just run "make"
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2021-06-25 21:53:57	Sauvin	sumthing1980, if you don't have stdio, you don't have a computer.
2021-06-25 21:54:18	Sauvin	sumthing1980, what distro are you using?
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2021-06-25 21:54:50	sumthing1980	ehe
2021-06-25 21:54:53	sumthing1980	mint
2021-06-25 21:54:54	Libre1209	well cloud backup is slow and problematic for confidential stuff.  If you backup something encrypted you need to double the backups because the slightest corruption will corrupt the whole thing.
2021-06-25 21:55:39	Libre1209	I do rsync to remot locations and use SOME cloud backup - but not of the stuff that has severe nondisclosure agreements attached.
2021-06-25 21:55:42	sumthing1980	ok it is another problem not stdio
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2021-06-25 21:56:05	sumthing1980	libpng which needs zlib1g-dev which needs something else blablabla
2021-06-25 21:56:21	Libre1209	I have a few nextcloud servers and one that is still ownclowd
2021-06-25 21:56:25	p0g0	The joys of Linux...
2021-06-25 21:56:25	structoha	craigevil: how is mega about cloud data compared to stupid dropbox? i just chcked it out seems neat
2021-06-25 21:56:48	structoha	Libre1209: self-hosted servers?
2021-06-25 21:56:58	<--	Atum_ (~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232) has quit (Quit: Atum_)
2021-06-25 21:57:01	Libre1209	yes, for contractual reasons
2021-06-25 21:57:06	sumthing1980	okay thats enough for me good night everyone take care
2021-06-25 21:57:44	craigevil	structoha, mega encrypts the data, I pay $50/yr for 400GB and 2TB a month transfer limit
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2021-06-25 21:58:01	Libre1209	I don't think I would be allowed to use that
2021-06-25 21:58:17	Libre1209	hmmm
2021-06-25 21:58:22	structoha	i am registering for the 20G free package right now :] i would still use cryptomator to encrypt some files on top
2021-06-25 21:58:27	structoha	thanks for the tip
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2021-06-25 21:58:44	akoana	sumthing1980: just downloaded the most recent version of optar, copied optar in a directory, extracted it with tar xvfzoptar.tgz, cd into optar_dist, run "make" and voila it compiled, now there are optar and unoptar executables
2021-06-25 21:58:52	Dagmar	THings like this are almost what iSCSI was designed for, but I've no idea about using it in a high-latency environment
2021-06-25 21:58:56	craigevil	I use it with the mega autosync android apps to keep the data on my phone, tablet, PI all the same
2021-06-25 21:59:28	akoana	*tar xvfz optar.tgz
2021-06-25 21:59:38	Libre1209	having had encrypted data backed up destroyed by the tiniest corruption, I am apprehensive when I back things up encrypted to only one or two places.
2021-06-25 21:59:50	craigevil	i mostly just use it for my ebooks, ,music, audiobooks, and app settings
2021-06-25 22:00:02	Libre1209	oh it would be good for that
2021-06-25 22:00:39	craigevil	i have the same files on my 500gb ssd, the 256GB sd cards in my phone and kindle, plus mega
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2021-06-25 22:02:17	structoha	craigevil: can i rely on the free account?
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2021-06-25 22:03:37	craigevil	i used it for months with no issues before i upgraded
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2021-06-25 22:04:18	Libre1209	that is the kind of thing I rsync to a remote shell account or VPS
2021-06-25 22:04:30	structoha	cool
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2021-06-25 22:05:49	Libre1209	I use the one VPS, several nextcloud and ownclouds, and even shell accounts for backing up the non-confidential stuff
2021-06-25 22:06:01	Libre1209	but too much of what I need to back up is confidential
2021-06-25 22:06:10	bpmedley	Libre1209 : Do you use ZFS for your backups?
2021-06-25 22:06:23	Libre1209	which ones?
2021-06-25 22:06:34	bpmedley	Libre1209 : Your rsync backups.
2021-06-25 22:06:58	Libre1209	I sometimes even use sshfs
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2021-06-25 22:07:10	Libre1209	and backup remotely locally
2021-06-25 22:07:28	Libre1209	but, no, I haven't -- do you recommend it?
2021-06-25 22:07:41	bpmedley	Libre1209 : Yes!  Has deduplication, snapshots, and compress.
2021-06-25 22:07:44	bpmedley	*compression
2021-06-25 22:08:16	Psi-Jack	Bleh, memory hungry that, zfs.
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2021-06-25 22:08:44	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : I have not used it enough to know how the tradeoffs.  Thanks for relating.
2021-06-25 22:08:45	Libre1209	hmmm
2021-06-25 22:08:54	Libre1209	I'll look into it bpmedley, thanks
2021-06-25 22:09:09	Libre1209	deduplication is what rsync sadly lacks
2021-06-25 22:09:22	Libre1209	it doesn't lack it it just isn't smart enough
2021-06-25 22:09:39	bpmedley	I see.  ZFS is at the filesystem layer.  Not the network transport layer.
2021-06-25 22:09:50	Psi-Jack	For backups, I do borgbackup, which does compression and deduplication.
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2021-06-25 22:10:13	Libre1209	bpmedley, one of my problems is that depending on the project I am working on my directory structure changes and when I e.g. rsync it I have all the same content in multiple places in the end.
2021-06-25 22:10:21	Psi-Jack	To which, I can use BtrFS's snapshots to do said backup from. :)
2021-06-25 22:10:30	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : borgbackup looks cool.  How does it store the files?
2021-06-25 22:10:41	Libre1209	otherwise I would really like rsync
2021-06-25 22:10:49	<--	silverwhitefish (~hidden@47.202.102.10) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-25 22:10:50	bpmedley	Libre1209 : True, rsync is very flexible.
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2021-06-25 22:11:04	Libre1209	exactly.  it is the flexibility that I love
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2021-06-25 22:11:12	Dagmar	Libre1209: You haven't tried, say, --delete-after?
2021-06-25 22:11:28	Libre1209	yes, but that is what I meant by it isn't that smart
2021-06-25 22:11:31	bpmedley	Libre1209 : The cool part is that zfs can run without affecting rsync in anyway.
2021-06-25 22:11:32	mworkman72	Any XFCE experts in here?
2021-06-25 22:11:36	Dagmar	You can make rsync delete files from the destination that no longer exist in the source.
2021-06-25 22:11:38	Libre1209	aha
2021-06-25 22:11:42	Libre1209	explain, please
2021-06-25 22:11:56	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: borgbackup works a lot like rsync, localy and remotely run, communicating, and storing files in a specialized database, which.... Is very VERY optimized. I have a years' worth of desktop snapshots with it, and the size of the archive is literally negligable. Course, I do optimize my backup solution as well.
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2021-06-25 22:12:11	bpmedley	Libre1209 : It's a filesystem.  For example, do you use EXT4?
2021-06-25 22:12:19	Libre1209	yes, but that isn't what I want Dagmar.  I want to keep the backups of projects I am no longer working on.
2021-06-25 22:12:29	Libre1209	or reiserfs, etc.
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2021-06-25 22:12:43	Dagmar	Okay, there's a nifty thing you can do for that, too
2021-06-25 22:12:44	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Neat.  How much physical and logical space is there?
2021-06-25 22:12:46	Psi-Jack	mworkman72: Stop asking for "experts"
2021-06-25 22:12:46	mworkman72	I have a Suse Enterprise Linux VM, I tried to download xfce package from opensuse.org, but it will not install, wondering if enterprise suse is incompatibale with opensuse
2021-06-25 22:12:51	bpmedley	is *taken up
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2021-06-25 22:13:21	Psi-Jack	mworkman72: SLES and SLED have their own repositories.
2021-06-25 22:13:40	Khaytsus	Does suse not just have some package installer??
2021-06-25 22:13:42	mworkman72	ok, yes, I was wondering about that
2021-06-25 22:13:47	Libre1209	the only time I wand to delete things that no longer live on the source is when a project has moved
2021-06-25 22:13:54	mworkman72	yast
2021-06-25 22:14:16	Khaytsus	And can't you just install it with that?
2021-06-25 22:14:20	mworkman72	zypper for installs, similar to yum on red hat
2021-06-25 22:14:53	Libre1209	so bpmedley, if it is a filesystem, what are the advantages?
2021-06-25 22:14:54	Dagmar	Dangit can anyone remember the rsync argument for the previous directory
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2021-06-25 22:15:01	Libre1209	??
2021-06-25 22:15:03	Dagmar	I'm going to have to look at a perl script
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2021-06-25 22:15:18	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: What?
2021-06-25 22:15:23	Dagmar	Libre1209: There's an argument you can hand to rsync that is the location of the _previous_ clone you made
2021-06-25 22:16:02	Dagmar	Libre1209: It'll compare the files in the source to that as well, and if a file is unchanged it *won't* make a new copy of the file.  It'll create a hardlink to the copy that's in the directory you specified
2021-06-25 22:16:13	Dagmar	It will look and "smell" like normal, but only occupies an inode
2021-06-25 22:16:31	Dagmar	Ah... --link-dest
2021-06-25 22:16:32	bpmedley	Libre1209 : https://itsfoss.com/what-is-zfs/ <-- Note the features.  There are lots of features and it took a while to get working.  Also, there are few trade offs.
2021-06-25 22:16:45	bpmedley	Such as the amount of RAM taken up.
2021-06-25 22:16:46	Psi-Jack	A few?!?
2021-06-25 22:16:54	Psi-Jack	It's a fracking whole filesystem.
2021-06-25 22:17:00	Dagmar	Try it.  Make a backup with rsync, then make another one in a different directory (in the same filesystem!) and hand it --link-dest=/the/other/location
2021-06-25 22:17:03	Psi-Jack	and, snapshots are NOT backups.
2021-06-25 22:17:25	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Why is a snapshot not a backup?
2021-06-25 22:17:32	Khaytsus	Dagmar: So a shortcut to the old hard cp ; rsync method
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2021-06-25 22:17:37	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: Because they're on the same system, for starters.
2021-06-25 22:17:44	Libre1209	hmmm, now I am beginning to vaguely remember using that -- why did I forget it
2021-06-25 22:17:47	Dagmar	Khaytsus: Yeah, except it's pretty much automatic
2021-06-25 22:17:53	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : I have a snapshot on my backup server.
2021-06-25 22:17:54	Khaytsus	Dagmar: Yeah
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2021-06-25 22:18:02	Libre1209	that is gread Dagmar
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2021-06-25 22:18:11	Khaytsus	Snapshots certainly don't have to live on the same filesystem
2021-06-25 22:18:17	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : So, I have snapshots of my backups.
2021-06-25 22:18:24	Dagmar	Khaytsus: I've got a thing at work that's doing near-line backups of filesystems... basically just a host with a lot of disks, and it makes them NOT take up a jillion gigabytes of space
2021-06-25 22:18:32	Psi-Jack	backups of your snapshots, you mean? :p
2021-06-25 22:18:39	Psi-Jack	Still, highly inefficient form.
2021-06-25 22:18:41	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : No..
2021-06-25 22:18:51	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: Then you make 0% sense.
2021-06-25 22:18:53	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Where do you see inefficiency?
2021-06-25 22:18:53	Dagmar	A weeks' worth of images only basically "costs" in disk space the size of the original filesytsem, plus whatever changes, and some inodes
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2021-06-25 22:19:17	Khaytsus	Dagmar: yeah, my backup solution used to be cp -al ; rsync
2021-06-25 22:19:19	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Want to see my backup script for clarity?
2021-06-25 22:19:30	Khaytsus	Dagmar: I use restic now
2021-06-25 22:19:30	Psi-Jack	Not particularly no.
2021-06-25 22:19:47	Psi-Jack	Khaytsus: Heh, Similar to borg, but borg is a bit better.
2021-06-25 22:19:54	Psi-Jack	IMHO, of course.
2021-06-25 22:19:59	Khaytsus	Psi-Jack: You seem to know better about everything
2021-06-25 22:20:01	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : I do an rsync backup and then I create a snapshot of the backup.
2021-06-25 22:20:04	Dagmar	Khaytus: I've been testing using a global parent directory based on a generous installation of the distribution as a second --link-desk.
2021-06-25 22:20:06	Dagmar	It "sort of "works
2021-06-25 22:20:20	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: Oh, yikes. That's /horrible/. LOL
2021-06-25 22:20:31	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Please be specific.  Why?
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2021-06-25 22:20:42	Dagmar	Just when patches happen I pretty much will need for _all_ the patches to happen at once of things get weird
2021-06-25 22:21:05	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: Because you're relying on snapshots, of a filesystem, to be utilized as "backups", in the end result.
2021-06-25 22:21:24	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : No.  I have versioned backups.
2021-06-25 22:21:34	Libre1209	I must be getting old.  I remember thinking how cool that was when I did learn of it, but it has been long forgotten just when I need it.
2021-06-25 22:22:22	ahungry	are you guys talking about personal backups or business backups?
2021-06-25 22:22:46	bpmedley	ahungry : I have only used this methodology for my personal system.
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2021-06-25 22:25:24	ahungry	Where do the snapshots go?  I duplicate my files for backups on encrypted external drives, never been a big fan of cloud backups
2021-06-25 22:25:27	jim	folks who are looking for a backup solution, could look at one of the programs that are specifically targeted towards it, like bakula and borg backup
2021-06-25 22:25:57	Psi-Jack	restic was also mentioned, which is good, similar to borg, just different.
2021-06-25 22:26:16	bpmedley	ahungry : They are present in the directory hierarchy.  They are accessible like normal files and directories.
2021-06-25 22:26:56	jim	with borg, I think you need a different system to -schedule- backups (one of those systems being cron and their crontabs)
2021-06-25 22:27:26	Libre1209	well I assume we all use cron for our backups, don't we?
2021-06-25 22:27:39	Psi-Jack	Personally these days my backups are quite optimized. I backup data, like /etc, /var/* as needed, and /home as needed, etc. Specific things associated, including dumping databases, especially smaller databases like consul, to flatfiles and including that into my daily borgbackup, and yet, for 2 years, my backups for 16 VM's is like 5GB total.
2021-06-25 22:27:43	bpmedley	Libre1209 : True, I run my script via cron.
2021-06-25 22:27:51	ahungry	If your backup is on the same media, that sounds more like a snapshot than a backup?  Or does your device (laptop, hardware) have raid? I keep external drives rotated incase my house burns down, I have an offsite
2021-06-25 22:27:56	Psi-Jack	And that's versioned, nightly. :)
2021-06-25 22:28:07	jim	I may have glossed over an existing system for backups in borg... I think bacula has a schecule gui
2021-06-25 22:28:38	bpmedley	ahungry : I backup to a remote computer.  Good point.  There is the local computer with my original files and the remote computer with versioned backups.
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2021-06-25 22:29:04	jim	with borg, you gotta make sure the name of the backup (borg calls them "archives") is unique in the repo
2021-06-25 22:29:07	bpmedley	ahungry : Using your terminology I have an offsite backup.
2021-06-25 22:29:23	Psi-Jack	ahungry: Yep, My backups are housed on my Synology NAS, and that gets duplicated to Backblaze. :)
2021-06-25 22:29:44	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Do you know how much space they would take up with deduplication and other optimzations?
2021-06-25 22:30:03	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: That /IS/ with deduplication, compression, AND encryption.
2021-06-25 22:30:12	sysRPL	i bought a dinky little radeon r5 430 low profile video card to test on a computer and installed fortnite. i don't care about this game, but wanted to test performance and settign with thsi video card
2021-06-25 22:30:13	Psi-Jack	Without it, that would be megatons more.
2021-06-25 22:30:35	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : Excuse me.  Without the duplication and compression.
2021-06-25 22:30:47	ahungry	How much difference does compression on a backup system like borg make for personal computing?  Aren't most space used by already optimized/compressed formats (most media is encoded to be small already?)  I just stick to boring old rsync, but my 2 external drives (about 5 years old now) are still not even 50% full, and they were cheap 1TB drives for $60
2021-06-25 22:30:50	sysRPL	so i enter a game while fiddling with the video settings to test the various effects on fps, and i have no idea how the game controls
2021-06-25 22:31:16	sysRPL	it bog in a truck and just sat there, whenever anyone was shooting at me i drove away
2021-06-25 22:31:20	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: Easily 120GB or more.
2021-06-25 22:31:25	sysRPL	which happened infrequently
2021-06-25 22:31:34	bpmedley	Psi-Jack : That's impressive.
2021-06-25 22:31:36	sysRPL	still changing settigns and testing the fps, i won
2021-06-25 22:31:38	Psi-Jack	Eyup. :)
2021-06-25 22:32:11	sysRPL	that is everyone else was eliminated but me, and i still don't see how people njoy this game
2021-06-25 22:32:18	Libre1209	only 1Tb and not full?
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2021-06-25 22:32:50	sysRPL	* i got in a big truck
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2021-06-25 22:34:34	Psi-Jack	bpmedley: And I can borg mount any version and offload what I need for a restoration. OPtimizing both /what/ I backup, and /how I back it up, I use borg backup with borgmatic, to simplify configuration, deployment, scheduling, and most of all, restoration tactics. I used to write my own tool around borgbackup, but basically what was needed was to run commands before, and after the backup, to dump data to a backed-up-path, then delete that after
2021-06-25 22:34:34	Psi-Jack	completion. :)
2021-06-25 22:35:10	Psi-Jack	And, since I have borg directly on my Synology as well, (as with like rsync-to-rsync, borg is to borg local-to-remote).
2021-06-25 22:35:18	bpmedley	Sounds cool.  I have similar possibilities with zfs and my restoration is via direct file access.
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2021-06-25 22:35:29	ahungry	Yea, I store family pictures/videos and that's about it, outside of source code for hobby coding, which doesn't take much space - I guess if I was big into hoarding third party media, that'd fill up quite a bit more (or playing games newer than 2005 lol)
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2021-06-25 22:35:54	Dagmar	It does
2021-06-25 22:36:06	Dagmar	I finally quit keeping Steam backups of stuff
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2021-06-25 22:36:41	ahungry	I have the (many discs) of baldurs gate 1 and 2 - I thought it was bad having a 5GB download of bg2 off steam.  Saw bg3 is like, 200G - I noped right out of that
2021-06-25 22:36:43	Psi-Jack	Yeah, I do various methods of backup depending. Massive chunks of data, like all the media I digitize, That's not backed up in versioned backups. That would just be too much for me to reasonably account for. heh
2021-06-25 22:37:28	Khaytsus	I use restic to back up to a local drive, frequently, another machine on the lan weekly, and to google cloud storage every few monts
2021-06-25 22:37:29	Psi-Jack	ahungry: Heh, I have Baldur's Gate,, original and "enhanced" editions, though the "enhanced" ones suck. On GoG. :)
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2021-06-25 22:38:27	ahungry	lol - GoG is nice, I like their no-drm policy (at least, I think it used to be their policy)
2021-06-25 22:38:37	Psi-Jack	That is.
2021-06-25 22:38:52	Psi-Jack	So, I backup my installer files, in case GOG ever ceases to exist.
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2021-06-25 22:41:05	Dagmar	ahungry: Yeah...I have avoided Baldur's Gate for that very reason
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2021-06-25 22:41:52	Dagmar	I bought RDR2 _Online_ because it was five bucks, and then was more than a little irked to find it was like a hundred thirty gigglebyte download
2021-06-25 22:41:55	Psi-Jack	I avoided bg3, simply because they don't have a linux native binary form of it yet, and so, I will wait.
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2021-06-25 22:42:13	Dagmar	I'll have to switch to a business plan for COmcast if I'm going to making gigantic downloads like that on the regular
2021-06-25 22:42:19	Psi-Jack	heh.
2021-06-25 22:42:38	 *	Psi-Jack pets his gigabit internet.
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2021-06-25 22:45:14	structoha	craigevil: just got everything setup, really good stuff - any experience with git repos *in* the cloud drive?
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2021-06-25 22:47:55	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: It's been all I could do to not suggest to some of the developers plaguing Nashville right now that perhaps Comcast and AT&T are harming their possible profits by preventing the rollout of gigabit
2021-06-25 22:48:38	bpmedley	Dagmar : What type of plague is from developers?  :)
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2021-06-25 22:49:22	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: Well, Cox has gigabit in my college town. That says something. But, they still have a 1TB/mo cap, unless you pay $50/mo more to have truly unlimited. Which I'm trying to work with the FCC on that about how they claim to have unlimited internet access, yet charge extra for it, it's false advertising.
2021-06-25 22:50:15	Khaytsus	 1TB/mo jfc..  could do that in a day
2021-06-25 22:51:09	Sauvin	Sounds like a porn addiction to me!
2021-06-25 22:51:19	Khaytsus	Or a bunch of linux isos going
2021-06-25 22:51:24	Khaytsus	on torrent
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2021-06-25 22:51:46	Dagmar	bpmedley: Buying up properties, rebuilding them beyond the local values, flipping them.  Essentally driving up prices like mad
2021-06-25 22:52:43	bpmedley	Dagmar : I see.  Always unfortunate when a new person destroys opportunity for the locals.
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2021-06-25 22:53:18	Dagmar	bpmedley: Well, one room apartments were previously $600 and in four years went to over $1000
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2021-06-25 22:53:28	Psi-Jack	Khaytsus: If you could routinely do 1TB/day, that would be insanity. :p
2021-06-25 22:53:38	Dagmar	I'm not sure the city planners were really aware of what effect it would have
2021-06-25 22:53:39	bpmedley	Dagmar : That's unfortunate.
2021-06-25 22:53:58	Khaytsus	Btut 1TB/month.  No way.
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2021-06-25 22:54:47	Dagmar	That's about what Comcast's cap is... 1.2Tb/month
2021-06-25 22:55:16	Khaytsus	Looks like I do about 13TB/mo
2021-06-25 22:55:52	Psi-Jack	Heh, before I got onto Cox the first time, about trying to claim I went over-cap, when I had clear proof of their failure, repeatedly, Cox was doing 1000 TiB/mo usage capping, and charging overages after that for every what, 10GB more?
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2021-06-25 22:56:03	Psi-Jack	Now it's changed, since the FCC ruling, to 1280 GB/mo. LOL
2021-06-25 22:56:18	Khaytsus	wow, such difference
2021-06-25 22:56:26	Psi-Jack	I know, right? LOL
2021-06-25 22:56:33	Dagmar	Yeah, Ajit Pai is an <<unprintable, and impossible act>>
2021-06-25 22:56:39	mybalzitch	23TB last month, 25TB month before
2021-06-25 22:57:21	Psi-Jack	Err, 1000 GiB/mo to 1280 GB/mo.
2021-06-25 22:57:31	Psi-Jack	Note the difference in units.
2021-06-25 22:57:37	Khaytsus	ah
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2021-06-25 23:39:02	begriffs	Anyone know the history of libtool versioning, and when/why it deviated from semantic versioning? current:revision:age vs major.minor.patch
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2021-06-25 23:40:31	bpmedley	begriffs : I feel libtool predates semantic versioning.
2021-06-25 23:41:18	mlu	begriffs: semver hasn't always been a standard
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2021-06-25 23:41:59	jim	so libtool didn't ever change -to- semantic versioning?
2021-06-25 23:42:03	mlu	also, sem ver is at best a hint
2021-06-25 23:42:59	begriffs	How old is libtool? This 1988 paper about the SunOS linker/loader uses major and minor versions. https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs414/2001FA/sharedlib.pdf
2021-06-25 23:43:24	Psi-Jack	Well, that depends... on which libtool.
2021-06-25 23:43:42	begriffs	Oh... :) what are the different ones?
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2021-06-25 23:44:03	Psi-Jack	Well, developers. for one. GNU libtool for example is not the same libtool in SunOS.
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2021-06-25 23:44:52	begriffs	I don't think sunos had a notion of libtool, it just had ld and introduced an ld.so shared library that runs in applications to do the locating and loading of other libraries
2021-06-25 23:45:03	retrosenator	my computer crashes 3 times a day: help
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2021-06-25 23:45:13	retrosenator	the problem is it runs out of ram and swap
2021-06-25 23:45:21	begriffs	mlu: can you explain more about semver being a hint?
2021-06-25 23:45:21	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: Going to need a lot more useful information like details. \
2021-06-25 23:45:32	bpmedley	retrosenator : The same times every day?
2021-06-25 23:45:32	retrosenator	why doesn't it just kill the process using most memory??
2021-06-25 23:45:33	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: RAM and Swap. Well, buy more RAMs!
2021-06-25 23:45:36	retrosenator	instead it just freezes
2021-06-25 23:45:43	retrosenator	i can't add ram its a laptop
2021-06-25 23:45:53	Psi-Jack	Well, some laptops you sure can.
2021-06-25 23:45:54	retrosenator	bpmedley: it does it when i run out of memory
2021-06-25 23:45:58	mlu	begriffs: in practice, software developers can make mistakes
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2021-06-25 23:46:08	retrosenator	i don't want to change hardware I want to set up linux to kill process on out of memory
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2021-06-25 23:46:15	mlu	begriffs: semver can at best signal intent, but reality doesn't necessarily match intent
2021-06-25 23:46:17	Psi-Jack	So, how much RAM you got?
2021-06-25 23:46:22	retrosenator	4 gigs
2021-06-25 23:46:24	Psi-Jack	...
2021-06-25 23:46:26	bpmedley	retrosenator : Which distro are you using?
2021-06-25 23:46:31	retrosenator	kubuntu
2021-06-25 23:46:35	Psi-Jack	Upgrade RAM. :p
2021-06-25 23:46:38	bpmedley	retrosenator : What version?
2021-06-25 23:46:40	mlu	some breaking changes can be tiny in the grand scheme of things, and some backwards-compatible changes can still be major
2021-06-25 23:46:40	retrosenator	its nothing to do with distro
2021-06-25 23:46:43	Psi-Jack	4GB these days is just horrible.
2021-06-25 23:46:44	retrosenator	it does it on the raspberry pi too
2021-06-25 23:46:58	retrosenator	more ram uses more power, I dont' want to use more power
2021-06-25 23:47:03	retrosenator	my computer uses 4 watts
2021-06-25 23:47:05	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: Incorrect.
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2021-06-25 23:47:11	mlu	semver just tells you: hey, if you're reviewing your dependencies, here's where you should spend extra effort looking / make a different tradeoff decision
2021-06-25 23:47:14	retrosenator	it can't upgrade ram
2021-06-25 23:47:17	Psi-Jack	You can.
2021-06-25 23:47:17	retrosenator	it's soldered to the board
2021-06-25 23:47:21	retrosenator	not on this machine
2021-06-25 23:47:24	mlu	but at the end of the day, it's just a hint -- a very useful one, but still a hint
2021-06-25 23:47:35	retrosenator	i want to make linux kill process on out of memory
2021-06-25 23:47:39	Psi-Jack	They didn't start soldering RAM onto laptops until 8-16GB was the norm.
2021-06-25 23:47:41	retrosenator	so that i don't have to reboot
2021-06-25 23:47:55	retrosenator	this is from 2017
2021-06-25 23:48:04	Dagmar	Well, it'll generally do that already
2021-06-25 23:48:05	mlu	IMO, soldering RAM into laptops was just a decision made to save on component cost and board space in increasingly competitive times
2021-06-25 23:48:09	pnbeast	You haven't rebooted since 2017?
2021-06-25 23:48:16	mlu	in the past, those RAM chips were $$$ compared to everything else
2021-06-25 23:48:16	retrosenator	the machine is made then lol
2021-06-25 23:48:18	 *	Psi-Jack yawns.
2021-06-25 23:48:21	Psi-Jack	Anyway, Good luck.
2021-06-25 23:48:23	mlu	but now the PCB is a significant chunk of the cost
2021-06-25 23:48:24	retrosenator	i don't want to spend money
2021-06-25 23:48:36	retrosenator	i don't want to change hardware, I have this problem on all my computers not just this one
2021-06-25 23:48:37	begriffs	mlu: gotcha, so short of running libraries through a checker, people may not notice breakage in the ABI or API, and can overlook doing a major version bump. https://lvc.github.io/abi-compliance-checker
2021-06-25 23:48:40	Dagmar	mlu: It's just dumb luck that it means the customer has to come back and buy a whole new laptop when it turns out what was built into it wasn't enough
2021-06-25 23:48:40	mlu	also, takes human labor to install some RAM modules
2021-06-25 23:48:42	 *	Sleepy63 yawns and rolls over
2021-06-25 23:48:50	Psi-Jack	You run a memory hogging DE, KDE, and you run only 4GB RAM. Problem exists in logic.
2021-06-25 23:48:51	retrosenator	I need a way to kill process before running out of memory so that I don't have to reboot
2021-06-25 23:48:55	mlu	Dagmar: true, but that's a feature for the company selling it :)
2021-06-25 23:49:01	Dagmar	Yeah well, screw them
2021-06-25 23:49:03	retrosenator	kde is not the issue, it's the browser
2021-06-25 23:49:07	jim	retrosenator about your ram soldered to the board, can't you get something where you can replace or upgrade ram? (do you want to have a machine like that?
2021-06-25 23:49:09	jim	)
2021-06-25 23:49:10	retrosenator	it's chrome or firefox
2021-06-25 23:49:14	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: Stop opening 200 tabs.
2021-06-25 23:49:19	retrosenator	jim: raspberry pi as well
2021-06-25 23:49:20	Dagmar	That's a _lot_ of ewaste
2021-06-25 23:49:23	retrosenator	i have like 4-5 tabs
2021-06-25 23:49:23	mlu	and I gotta be honest, I've only uninstalled RAM in maybe only one or two of my builds
2021-06-25 23:49:32	Psi-Jack	Then I'm calling bull.
2021-06-25 23:49:35	Psi-Jack	Good luck. :L)
2021-06-25 23:49:36	retrosenator	I used to open more than 100 tabs on 64mb ram back in the day no problem
2021-06-25 23:49:41	retrosenator	then javascript spoiled the web
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2021-06-25 23:49:49	 *	Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
2021-06-25 23:49:53	jim	it did
2021-06-25 23:50:07	retrosenator	i just want to kill process using most ram if out of ram instead of computer locking up
2021-06-25 23:50:09	mlu	the PCB + EEPROM + connector probably adds ~$5-$10 to the BOM
2021-06-25 23:50:11	retrosenator	how hard is that to understand?
2021-06-25 23:50:27	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: First of all, how much Swap do you ahve?
2021-06-25 23:50:29	Psi-Jack	have*
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2021-06-25 23:50:35	retrosenator	2gb, I don't have enough disk space for more
2021-06-25 23:50:42	retrosenator	i have 64gb disk
2021-06-25 23:50:48	Psi-Jack	2GB is the max you should really ever have anyway, in most cases.
2021-06-25 23:50:49	mlu	that was good enough for the web of 20yr ago
2021-06-25 23:51:03	mlu	it's not good enough for running the web of today, which basically have almost full OSes per website
2021-06-25 23:51:08	begriffs	mlu: are you also suggesting that there are times when you wouldn't want to bump a major version when there's technically a breakage, because it seems unlikely to affect applications? Is the motivation there to save space on disk by having fewer versions of the library installed?
2021-06-25 23:51:09	retrosenator	again..  this is not a hardware issue, it's software
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2021-06-25 23:51:17	Psi-Jack	No, it's hardware too. :p
2021-06-25 23:51:19	jim	I understand it... can't you look through /proc and find the process using the most ram and kill that?
2021-06-25 23:51:20	retrosenator	linux needs to kill processes on out of memory instead of making the system unresponsive
2021-06-25 23:51:29	bindi	retrosenator: you're running out of RAM and using KDE?
2021-06-25 23:51:30	retrosenator	jim: the computer locks up
2021-06-25 23:51:34	bindi	considered a lightweight DE?
2021-06-25 23:51:36	retrosenator	bindi: yeah
2021-06-25 23:51:38	mlu	begriffs: for firmware usages, you want to be much more conservative here
2021-06-25 23:51:43	retrosenator	it's not kde, chrome is using all the memory
2021-06-25 23:51:45	Psi-Jack	You know what you keep going on this kick and.. Frankly, I'm done with it.
2021-06-25 23:51:50	bindi	dont open so many tabs
2021-06-25 23:51:51	Psi-Jack	Good luck.
2021-06-25 23:51:51	Dagmar	A lighter-weight desktop is pretty much going to be a requirement with only 4Gb of RAM
2021-06-25 23:51:56	mlu	begriffs: especailly for the stuff where any small change is a major risk, there's no reason to have major versions even
2021-06-25 23:52:02	bindi	keep browsing on the 1 tab
2021-06-25 23:52:03	 *	Psi-Jack goes back to his game.
2021-06-25 23:52:09	retrosenator	this is nonsese I used to run kde on 256mb ram no problem
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2021-06-25 23:52:14	mlu	i.e. you gotta treat the minor versons as major bumps anyways, and the patches needed to be treated like minor bumps too
2021-06-25 23:52:16	begriffs	Psi-Jack: https://www.downloadmoreram.com   :)
2021-06-25 23:52:25	Psi-Jack	heh
2021-06-25 23:52:27	retrosenator	i'm asking a simple question how to configure the kernel to kill processes instead of locking up
2021-06-25 23:52:33	mlu	the major vesrion, however, reflects sentiment in that case
2021-06-25 23:52:35	bindi	there is oomkiller already
2021-06-25 23:52:40	Psi-Jack	retrosenator: Even /I/ know that's also BS, because I used to RUN KDE since pre 1.0.0
2021-06-25 23:52:41	retrosenator	it isn't working fast enough
2021-06-25 23:52:47	bindi	it probably doesnt lock up, your shit eMMC is too slow for swapping
2021-06-25 23:52:48	retrosenator	how do I configure oom killer?
2021-06-25 23:52:57	retrosenator	swap is fine, swap is full
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2021-06-25 23:53:04	Psi-Jack	Full Swap != Fine
2021-06-25 23:53:05	bindi	swap being full is not swap being fine
2021-06-25 23:53:07	mlu	begriffs: so, if there's a new project, there's no real reason on "why not" with the versions
2021-06-25 23:53:08	Psi-Jack	lol
2021-06-25 23:53:13	mlu	** "why not" with the sem ver
2021-06-25 23:53:21	mlu	but just take the benefits with a grain of salt
2021-06-25 23:53:33	retrosenator	so when swap reaches say 80% I want it to just kill chrome
2021-06-25 23:53:37	bindi	1) dont browse on so many tabs 2) switch to XFCE/LXDE
2021-06-25 23:53:40	retrosenator	that is it
2021-06-25 23:53:46	retrosenator	i had 4 tabs open only
2021-06-25 23:53:51	bindi	get more ram
2021-06-25 23:53:55	bindi	dont go more than 2 tabs
2021-06-25 23:53:57	retrosenator	lol
2021-06-25 23:54:06	Dagmar	retrosenator: Speaking as someone who ran an entire website and mail server off much less, if you want to run KDE with only 256Mb of RAM you need to _go back to 1999 to do it_
2021-06-25 23:54:14	bindi	so you want it to force-close all your tabs instead of you just limiting yourself to fewer?
2021-06-25 23:54:41	retrosenator	Dagmar: well that may be.  but chrome is using more than 95% of all memory
2021-06-25 23:54:56	begriffs	mlu: thanks
2021-06-25 23:55:01	retrosenator	bindi: it isn't how many tabs, it is what is running on each one
2021-06-25 23:55:08	retrosenator	and it's impossible to control what javascript may do
2021-06-25 23:55:10	bindi	so you know how it works
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2021-06-25 23:55:13	jim	not so good...
2021-06-25 23:55:27	bindi	upgrade PC
2021-06-25 23:55:33	retrosenator	can I somehow limit chrome to less memory?
2021-06-25 23:55:36	bindi	my x220 that i paid 80€ for 4 years ago has 8GB ram
2021-06-25 23:55:40	retrosenator	upgrading computer is not ecological
2021-06-25 23:55:51	retrosenator	i use until it breaks
2021-06-25 23:55:56	bindi	its DOA
2021-06-25 23:55:57	retrosenator	every computer I have I use until it breaks
2021-06-25 23:56:05	Psi-Jack	ecological? You seem to use that word at random.
2021-06-25 23:56:11	retrosenator	lol
2021-06-25 23:56:28	bindi	ecological = buy 2nd hand ram and slap it in
2021-06-25 23:56:30	retrosenator	just want to set it up, so chrom cannot use more than say 3gb of memory
2021-06-25 23:56:36	retrosenator	as in, malloc fails for it
2021-06-25 23:56:45	retrosenator	and computer never gets stuck
2021-06-25 23:56:50	Psi-Jack	Clearly you need to rethink how you use your laptop.
2021-06-25 23:56:50	retrosenator	tired of rebooting 3x a day
2021-06-25 23:56:52	johnnyapol	rlimits
2021-06-25 23:57:04	mlu	begriffs: for things that I expect to have no expectation of backwards compatibility, I actually just like to use branches and release dates as the version
2021-06-25 23:57:05	Psi-Jack	Stop using KDE< perhaps LXQT is more your speed, or XFCE.
2021-06-25 23:57:19	Psi-Jack	Or even simpler, blackbox, bare minimum stuff.
2021-06-25 23:57:21	retrosenator	its chrome using all the memory
2021-06-25 23:57:29	retrosenator	switching the wm isn't going to change that
2021-06-25 23:57:40	jim	retrosenator, what about the idea that you could use fewer tabs? or how many tabs do you have open?
2021-06-25 23:57:44	Psi-Jack	Well, KDE alone uses 1~1.5GB RAM just by itself.
2021-06-25 23:57:52	retrosenator	without chrome I use 800mb and no swap
2021-06-25 23:57:56	bindi	retrosenator: https://gist.github.com/juanje/9861623
2021-06-25 23:58:00	johnnyapol	you can use rlimits to limit memory but be prepared for chrome to crash
2021-06-25 23:58:04	retrosenator	Psi-Jack: not sure what you are doing different
2021-06-25 23:58:12	bindi	retrosenator: https://www.paranoids.at/cgroup-ubuntu-18-04-howto/ this actually
2021-06-25 23:58:16	jim	how much ram do you have?
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2021-06-25 23:58:21	retrosenator	jim: 4gb
2021-06-25 23:58:34	jim	that's pretty low :)
2021-06-25 23:58:36	Henry151	i use i3 with no DE and run firefox. The DE-things that i do need i borrow from xfce.
2021-06-25 23:58:54	Henry151	used to use chrome but i don't like it anymore.
2021-06-25 23:59:03	retrosenator	bindi: thanks
2021-06-25 23:59:11	retrosenator	ive never had more than 4gb ever
2021-06-25 23:59:21	jim	that sounds workable... retrosenator, what do you think of that?
2021-06-25 23:59:34	Henry151	64GB is about right for me :)
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2021-06-26 00:00:09	Henry151	with 4gb you should be using w3m for crying out loud
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2021-06-26 00:00:16	retrosenator	lol!
2021-06-26 00:00:17	jim	I have 16g in this machine, 16 in the laptop and I think 8 in the gateway
2021-06-26 00:00:26	retrosenator	well this machine uses 4 watts
2021-06-26 00:00:32	retrosenator	how much power does yours use?
2021-06-26 00:00:33	Psi-Jack	Yeah, when I upgraded my desktop from 16GB, I started off with 32GB from the start, with space to fill it out to 64GB still.
2021-06-26 00:00:54	Psi-Jack	And I plan to upgrade this to 64GB, this year, along with a new video card, finally. :D
2021-06-26 00:01:10	jim	retrosenator, how fast is the machine? which cpu is that low on power consumption?
2021-06-26 00:01:16	retrosenator	i'ts n5000
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2021-06-26 00:01:36	retrosenator	crazy fast computer 4 core
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2021-06-26 00:01:40	retrosenator	i've never had faster
2021-06-26 00:02:00	retrosenator	this is 4 watt including screen
2021-06-26 00:02:27	Psi-Jack	heh, umm.. Yeah.That's not exactly a performance system, like you claim it to be. :)
2021-06-26 00:02:52	retrosenator	i've never used a computer faster
2021-06-26 00:03:02	retrosenator	it runs circles around a raspberry pi
2021-06-26 00:03:13	retrosenator	which was my primary computer for a few years before
2021-06-26 00:03:13	Psi-Jack	...
2021-06-26 00:03:22	Psi-Jack	Which RPI?
2021-06-26 00:03:27	retrosenator	pi4
2021-06-26 00:03:32	Dagmar	That doesn't mean it's capable of running what you're trying to run on it
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2021-06-26 00:03:44	Psi-Jack	Years?
2021-06-26 00:03:46	Dagmar	You can, however, buy a Pi4 with more RAM than that
2021-06-26 00:03:52	retrosenator	out of stock
2021-06-26 00:03:54	Psi-Jack	RPI4's barely been out that long.
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2021-06-26 00:04:01	retrosenator	i was using a pi3
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2021-06-26 00:04:30	 *	Psi-Jack pets his RPi3, RPi4, P0W's and OP0W's. :)
2021-06-26 00:04:44	jim	if he likes what he has, he likes it... it's usable to him
2021-06-26 00:04:53	retrosenator	i mean, irc doesn't take much
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2021-06-26 00:05:04	retrosenator	ok i need to figure out cgroups
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2021-06-26 00:05:15	retrosenator	the problem is idiotic javascript
2021-06-26 00:06:57	Dagmar	You can probably make a go of it using XFCE
2021-06-26 00:07:06	jim	retrosenator, at one point, I had a gateway machine that had like half gig of ram... and pastebin.com, every time, crashed the browser with how much javascript it sends (it's probably why we ask folks here not to use pastebin.com)
2021-06-26 00:07:22	retrosenator	since kde uses 800mb, I would at most save some of this
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2021-06-26 00:07:40	Psi-Jack	jim: A big part of why pastebin.com is discouraged is that it destroys pastes, formatting.
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2021-06-26 00:07:45	retrosenator	i block javascript on a lot of sites
2021-06-26 00:07:55	retrosenator	and it really helps because it blocks the ad blocker detection
2021-06-26 00:08:01	AndroidDAW	starting without xorg saves me about 2 GB
2021-06-26 00:08:27	AndroidDAW	starting without xorg saves me about 1 GB to 2 GB of ram *
2021-06-26 00:08:30	jim	Psi-Jack, there is that, but I kept complaining, and finally someone put it in the topic
2021-06-26 00:08:55	Psi-Jack	You did? I did like majorly heavily. LOL
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2021-06-26 00:09:21	jim	oh ok, you predate me as far as that goes
2021-06-26 00:09:30	Psi-Jack	:)
2021-06-26 00:09:50	jim	I think we can probably agree, that we both did it
2021-06-26 00:10:32	Psi-Jack	Well, I left. What was it. a year, or heck it was more.
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2021-06-26 00:18:23	bindi	retrosenator: kde using 800MB
2021-06-26 00:18:24	bindi	yikes
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2021-06-26 00:18:29	bindi	try a lightweight DE, seriously
2021-06-26 00:18:48	retrosenator	lol maybe i will
2021-06-26 00:18:50	Psi-Jack	Or no DE, just minimal. :)
2021-06-26 00:18:56	bindi	usability--;
2021-06-26 00:18:59	Psi-Jack	4GB these days is literally... nothing.
2021-06-26 00:19:02	retrosenator	but with 4gb + 2gb swap and running out
2021-06-26 00:19:11	bindi	You're doing too much
2021-06-26 00:19:17	retrosenator	switching to lxde or whatno isn't going to save me
2021-06-26 00:19:18	bindi	-> lightweight DE, less tabs, less multitasking
2021-06-26 00:19:24	bindi	it is when your DE is taking 25% of your RAM
2021-06-26 00:19:30	retrosenator	it's not the tabs, it's javascript
2021-06-26 00:19:34	bindi	and  you probably have eMMC instead of SSD -> swapping is *SLOW*
2021-06-26 00:19:44	retrosenator	I can do 50 tabs all on wikipedia no problem
2021-06-26 00:19:44	bindi	less tabs, more ram for mean javascript
2021-06-26 00:19:47	bindi	sure
2021-06-26 00:19:49	bindi	disable JS? :p
2021-06-26 00:19:53	retrosenator	i do on many sites
2021-06-26 00:19:56	retrosenator	but I need it for some
2021-06-26 00:19:57	bindi	more sites
2021-06-26 00:20:00	bindi	more ram
2021-06-26 00:20:01	Psi-Jack	He just likes to blame random things.
2021-06-26 00:20:04	bindi	not many ways around this
2021-06-26 00:20:09	bindi	its a literal physical limitation
2021-06-26 00:20:10	retrosenator	so there is ghostscript but it's hard work to hack each site to block part of the scripts
2021-06-26 00:20:11	bindi	you have to work around it somehow
2021-06-26 00:20:18	bindi	less resource usage (tabs, DE, disable JS)
2021-06-26 00:20:20	bindi	pick and choose
2021-06-26 00:20:22	bindi	or install more RAM
2021-06-26 00:20:25	bindi	literally no other way around it
2021-06-26 00:20:39	retrosenator	i'm going to try the cgroup limits
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2021-06-26 00:21:04	bindi	what's the English term for that... a hack fix? :P
2021-06-26 00:21:08	Psi-Jack	That won't help as much as you think it might, but good luck anwyay/.
2021-06-26 00:21:27	Psi-Jack	Well, more HOPE than think.
2021-06-26 00:21:54	retrosenator	i'll try lxde if it's not enough
2021-06-26 00:22:16	Psi-Jack	It's LXQT now, because LXDE sucked.
2021-06-26 00:22:20	Psi-Jack	heh
2021-06-26 00:22:32	retrosenator	oh
2021-06-26 00:22:45	bindi	oh yeah? i think I said LXDE before
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2021-06-26 00:22:53	bindi	but last time I looked at it was 8 years ago
2021-06-26 00:22:56	retrosenator	or openbox maybe
2021-06-26 00:22:58	bindi	might have something to do with it
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2021-06-26 00:23:03	bindi	sure if you wanna configure shit yourself
2021-06-26 00:23:07	bindi	i would go with LXwhateveritis
2021-06-26 00:23:11	bindi	for ease of use
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2021-06-26 00:23:14	retrosenator	yeah
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2021-06-26 00:26:29	rascul	blackbox or bust
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2021-06-26 00:28:22	retrosenator	i used to use emacs without x
2021-06-26 00:28:30	retrosenator	with dual screens
2021-06-26 00:28:34	retrosenator	two framebuffers
2021-06-26 00:28:46	rascul	sounds horrible
2021-06-26 00:28:58	rascul	have you tried ed?
2021-06-26 00:28:59	retrosenator	didn't use a lot of ram, and had full features
2021-06-26 00:29:19	rascul	ed is pretty lightweight
2021-06-26 00:29:20	retrosenator	i mean, you can do email, tetris, irc etc all from emacs
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2021-06-26 00:29:41	rascul	emacs is a decent os, sure
2021-06-26 00:29:47	rascul	kinda sucks as a text editor
2021-06-26 00:30:11	Psi-Jack	here here!
2021-06-26 00:30:14	retrosenator	well you learn the chords
2021-06-26 00:30:26	rascul	i haven't learned any linux cords
2021-06-26 00:30:28	Psi-Jack	You mean, get carpal tunnel syndrome?
2021-06-26 00:30:37	retrosenator	i'm immune
2021-06-26 00:30:38	rascul	or chords
2021-06-26 00:30:48	rascul	i'm immune to chords
2021-06-26 00:30:50	retrosenator	you pretty much have to remap caps lock to control
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2021-06-26 00:30:58	Psi-Jack	You pretty much don't.
2021-06-26 00:30:58	rascul	no, i don't
2021-06-26 00:31:12	rascul	actually i just disable caps lock
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2021-06-26 00:31:24	rascul	i don't remember how but i did it
2021-06-26 00:31:36	retrosenator	with a drill?
2021-06-26 00:31:44	rascul	with typing
2021-06-26 00:31:59	rascul	i did some drilling today though
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2021-06-26 00:32:13	rascul	mostly holes in wood
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2021-06-26 00:32:26	rascul	a few in brick
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2021-06-26 00:32:42	Sauvin	Rascul has HARD bits!
2021-06-26 00:32:49	rascul	just one
2021-06-26 00:33:17	Sauvin	Rascul gots bits of STEEL!
2021-06-26 00:33:22	rascul	i do
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2021-06-26 00:35:24	 *	kfrench sticks a magnet on rascul.
2021-06-26 00:35:24	rascul	i like big bits
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2021-06-26 00:35:42	Sauvin	Rascul gots MAGNETIC bits!
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2021-06-26 00:42:56	 *	mlu finds a drill bit and inserts it up rascul's ass
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2021-06-26 00:43:14	rascul	i magnetized magneto
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2021-06-26 00:44:30	Sauvin	I'd have rather magnetised Jean.
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2021-06-26 00:44:52	rascul	i didn't necessarily make the best choices
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2021-06-26 00:45:41	Sauvin	You can have Rogue if you want. O:)
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2021-06-26 00:48:08	ossifrage	Huh, I wonder how dstat can report that a disk (with 4k blocks) wrote 68 bytes (over a minute window)
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2021-06-26 00:49:20	ossifrage	The disks are mostly idle, but I periodically see the disks in the raid10 group all write 68 bytes. (obviously some header, but shouldn't everything be multiples of 4k?)
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2021-06-26 00:54:17	Skaface	hopefully someone can give me some advice, i want to create a minimal linux install where it loads the entire OS into ram on startup, and on shutdown it updates the hard drive image with the changes
2021-06-26 00:54:43	schillingklaus	using s6 as init?
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2021-06-26 00:56:39	mlu	Skaface: put it all on some initrd
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2021-06-26 00:56:54	mlu	Skaface: did you know that this is already the case in most LiveCD distros?
2021-06-26 00:56:57	mlu	Skaface: you familiar with loopfs?
2021-06-26 00:57:03	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-26 00:57:28	Skaface	yes
2021-06-26 00:57:31	mlu	Skaface: or, are you famiilar with squashfs?
2021-06-26 00:57:37	Skaface	no
2021-06-26 00:58:19	mlu	Skaface: read up on it and then read up on how to use syslinux (UEFI) to boot up and mount some squashfs images
2021-06-26 00:58:33	mlu	Skaface: how minimal are you thinking about? are we talking 1MB, 10MB, 100MB, 1GB?
2021-06-26 00:58:54	Skaface	probably about 1gb
2021-06-26 00:59:04	bindi	Skaface: persistent ubuntu live image
2021-06-26 00:59:08	mlu	Skaface: google up the Ubuntu or Fedora LiveCD mastering guide then
2021-06-26 00:59:34	mlu	Skaface: you probably want to setup some AUFS COW setup
2021-06-26 00:59:53	mlu	i.e. the squashfs are mounted read-only, but AUFS layers on top and the changes persists to HD
2021-06-26 00:59:57	Skaface	the main thing i want to achieve here is to be able to power off the machine at any time and just lose the changes since power up, but on a clean shutdown it will write changes back to the image
2021-06-26 01:00:27	mlu	Skaface: you sure you want to do a liveCD type setup here instead of some versioned ZFS volumes?
2021-06-26 01:00:41	mlu	Skaface: that'll get you the effect
2021-06-26 01:00:48	mlu	i.e. you "commit" on shutdown
2021-06-26 01:00:54	Skaface	im not quite sure what I want, thats why im here for advice :)
2021-06-26 01:01:01	Skaface	ok nice ill look into that the
2021-06-26 01:01:03	bindi	why do you want that?
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2021-06-26 01:01:27	mlu	Skaface: the keyword is filesystem snapshot
2021-06-26 01:01:35	Skaface	ty
2021-06-26 01:02:35	Skaface	im putting together a little TV media player system, and theres a high chance it will be regularly unplugged without shutting down, so i want to make it bulletproof in that aspect
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2021-06-26 01:03:18	mlu	Skaface: any reason you're not using an existing Linux distro that does just that?
2021-06-26 01:03:36	mlu	Skaface: the data volume is separate from the software so it's pretty foolproof already
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2021-06-26 01:04:32	Skaface	i just want to learn how to do it
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2021-06-26 01:07:01	mlu	Skaface: fair enough :)
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2021-06-26 01:07:16	mlu	Skaface: in this case, I also suggest reading up on KISS linux
2021-06-26 01:07:37	schillingklaus	there is a channel for kisslinux
2021-06-26 01:07:41	bindi	tv media player -> kodi, rasplex, LibreELEC, OSMC
2021-06-26 01:07:44	bindi	pick 1
2021-06-26 01:07:47	<--	xrogaan (~xrogaan@user/xrogaan) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-26 01:07:47	Psi-Jack	never heard of "kisslinux"
2021-06-26 01:08:00	<--	ax56234 (~NickServ@user/ax562) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 01:08:07	schillingklaus	it uses musl-libc
2021-06-26 01:08:13	Psi-Jack	Sounds horrible.
2021-06-26 01:08:14	bindi	Probably easiest to buy some amazon fire tv stick for 30€ and call it a day instead of fiddling
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2021-06-26 01:08:43	bindi	ofc learning is fun but i stopped caring about that when the user experience became horribad
2021-06-26 01:08:44	mlu	Psi-Jack: not that well-known, but think of it as a more modern LFS
2021-06-26 01:08:53	rascul	musl is ok for some things
2021-06-26 01:08:56	Psi-Jack	mlu: No.
2021-06-26 01:08:58	Psi-Jack	LOL>
2021-06-26 01:09:06	Psi-Jack	I will not so much as even think about it. :)
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2021-06-26 01:09:18	schillingklaus	it is time for amazon to feel the flaming breath of independent developers
2021-06-26 01:09:42	Psi-Jack	Sorry, I don't have flaming breath.
2021-06-26 01:09:48	Psi-Jack	How dare you insinuate that I do!
2021-06-26 01:09:50	 *	mlu slays the dragon
2021-06-26 01:09:58	rascul	i'm breathless
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2021-06-26 01:10:06	 *	mlu also slays the ghoul
2021-06-26 01:10:06	Sauvin	Psi-Jack, no Mongolian cuisine for you?
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2021-06-26 01:10:15	Psi-Jack	No... GERD.
2021-06-26 01:10:16	mlu	or wait, was that a dragur?
2021-06-26 01:11:40	fsg	bindi: they all suck?
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2021-06-26 01:11:49	bindi	yes
2021-06-26 01:12:10	bindi	well no, depends on your hardware. but your hardware is gonna cost more than the stick
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2021-06-26 01:13:04	mlu	you can buy some decent x86 sticks for <$100 these days
2021-06-26 01:13:15	fsg	bindi: what about the media tools you mentioned
2021-06-26 01:13:15	bindi	And hope it works fine with that distro
2021-06-26 01:13:21	bindi	tools?
2021-06-26 01:13:30	fsg	kodi etc..
2021-06-26 01:13:34	bindi	those are distros
2021-06-26 01:13:49	bindi	kodi is fine, kodi on raspberry pi not so much :p
2021-06-26 01:13:57	bindi	getting back to the cost
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2021-06-26 01:14:00	bindi	and electricity and heat
2021-06-26 01:14:01	Psi-Jack	Meh, I didn't like kodi.
2021-06-26 01:14:08	mlu	yeah, you need a device withy a decent GPU, at least a decent VDU
2021-06-26 01:14:12	Psi-Jack	I prefer a genuine networked setup like Plex.
2021-06-26 01:14:22	 *	Psi-Jack pets his PlexPass for Life.
2021-06-26 01:14:30	bindi	plex is super garbage. i know because i use it
2021-06-26 01:14:32	fsg	I do have a android stick, was considering building a raspberry pi instead
2021-06-26 01:14:34	mlu	I don't believe in enjoying the consumption of multimedia
2021-06-26 01:14:40	bindi	android app, want to thrash my phone every time i use it
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2021-06-26 01:14:55	Psi-Jack	bindi: So, stop using crap hardware. :)
2021-06-26 01:15:00	bindi	i'm not
2021-06-26 01:15:06	bindi	the app is shit on android
2021-06-26 01:15:16	bindi	also their 5.1 downmixing and volume normalizing is non-existent
2021-06-26 01:15:18	Psi-Jack	Because of crap hardware that Android runs on.
2021-06-26 01:15:28	bindi	no, i used to run an older app
2021-06-26 01:15:30	Psi-Jack	Works fine for me, in my iOS. :)
2021-06-26 01:15:33	bindi	it did better job at volume normalization
2021-06-26 01:15:47	bindi	because the newer version of the app was bugged and kept crashing
2021-06-26 01:15:54	bindi	now I updated because the old one started crashing
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2021-06-26 01:16:04	bindi	at full volume I barely hear conversation in 5.1 content
2021-06-26 01:16:14	bindi	probably because this client is newer and advertises my phone as 5.1 capable instead of 2.0
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2021-06-26 01:16:50	Psi-Jack	Sounds like one of the many Android-specific issues.
2021-06-26 01:16:55	bindi	probably
2021-06-26 01:16:59	Psi-Jack	There's a reason I stopped using Android.
2021-06-26 01:17:03	bindi	plex web is garbage too
2021-06-26 01:17:10	bindi	supposed to use the native app instead
2021-06-26 01:17:22	bindi	really looking to change to jellyfin and realize all the same problems exists there, but hey, FOSS
2021-06-26 01:17:25	Psi-Jack	Yeah, I use Plex Media Player still.
2021-06-26 01:17:29	Psi-Jack	AppImage. :)
2021-06-26 01:17:40	schillingklaus	android had a great shell, mksh; but the vulgar average user of androis is ignorant of shells
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2021-06-26 01:21:17	Psi-Jack	Huh, is Fedora the only distro still yet to have Gnome 40?
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2021-06-26 01:26:14	schillingklaus	Fedora has whatever is approved by poettering
2021-06-26 01:26:24	 *	mlu hates poettering
2021-06-26 01:26:34	Psi-Jack	You know, I don't give a rats arse about people's hate banging over Poettering.
2021-06-26 01:26:37	Psi-Jack	Stop it already.
2021-06-26 01:26:46	mlu	he's like a politician I actually care about
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2021-06-26 01:27:15	 *	rascul uses jellyfin and doesn't care about poettering
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2021-06-26 01:29:25	Kyv	Psi-Jack: funny thing for you to say!
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2021-06-26 01:29:40	Psi-Jack	heh, I mean, Fedora's what I use for my desktop. Reliable and yet modern.
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2021-06-26 01:31:03	mlu	Feh
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2021-06-26 01:33:01	budlight	hi
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2021-06-26 01:35:09	Skaface	mlu: i just discovered alpine linux diskless mode, it does exactly what I was wanting to do
2021-06-26 01:35:32	Psi-Jack	Ahhh.. Manjaro 21.0 has Gnome 40 it seems.
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2021-06-26 01:42:05	mlu	Skaface: awesome -- Alpine is nice :)
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2021-06-26 04:38:55	banshi	hello all
2021-06-26 04:39:28	banshi	My system boots in emergency mode. Which of these errors can be root of problem? : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Q6c6Pwtn2g/
2021-06-26 04:40:18	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-26 04:42:01	jim	I'm thinking it couldn't mount /
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2021-06-26 04:44:37	Sauvin	I don't understand everything in that paste, but I'm getting the impression a hard drive isn't spinning up.
2021-06-26 04:45:18	<--	telukir (~Hanumaan@dslb-178-003-253-052.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-26 04:45:37	jim	line 10 shows there was a timeout waiting for what is probably the / device
2021-06-26 04:46:37	jim	the drive it's on not spinning up could very much be the reason
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2021-06-26 05:02:37	Guest6208	This is a big channel
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2021-06-26 05:02:58	Guest6208	Anyone here into programming?
2021-06-26 05:02:58	<--	Two_Dogs (~quassel@user/two-dogs/x-6929303) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-26 05:03:19	lopid	nobody hear likes computers
2021-06-26 05:03:22	lopid	here!
2021-06-26 05:03:31	-->	Feuermagier (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 05:03:32	jim	Guest6208, sure... what has you ask?
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2021-06-26 05:03:48	Guest6208	Oh, I just want to cht
2021-06-26 05:03:50	Guest6208	*chat
2021-06-26 05:04:07	-->	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 05:04:13	 *	jim replaces lopid's computer with a farting horse
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2021-06-26 05:06:10	jim	Guest6208, what kinds of things do you like writing programs about?
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2021-06-26 05:06:39	Kyv	pretty sure theyre going to notice, jim
2021-06-26 05:06:57	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e94:c247::688b:de0a) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-26 05:06:59	jim	notice?
2021-06-26 05:06:59	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 05:07:36	Kyv	the replacement
2021-06-26 05:07:47	-->	soczol (~soczol@user/soczol) has joined #linux
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2021-06-26 05:08:11	jim	I only replaced one :)
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2021-06-26 05:11:29	Guest6208	These channels seem terrible for interactive conversation
2021-06-26 05:12:00	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-26 05:12:06	lacroix	Guest6208, feel free to /part
2021-06-26 05:12:09	jim	most people in the US are probably asleep :)
2021-06-26 05:12:32	jim	Guest6208, in what way?
2021-06-26 05:12:53	Guest6208	Mainly, that most channels seem dead
2021-06-26 05:12:57	Guest6208	Would it be timing?
2021-06-26 05:13:11	jim	maybe
2021-06-26 05:13:16	moo	its not a tinder where "you just want to chat" tho
2021-06-26 05:13:26	Sauvin	I believe so. Channel seems a lot livelier when New York City is awake.
2021-06-26 05:13:35	Guest6208	Hm
2021-06-26 05:13:38	Guest6208	I never use IRC
2021-06-26 05:13:44	moo	join #libera if you want general chat
2021-06-26 05:13:50	Kyv	NEW YORK CITY?
2021-06-26 05:13:57	Sauvin	#libera isn't for general chat.
2021-06-26 05:13:58	Guest6208	I want to do open source stuff
2021-06-26 05:14:07	jim	ok...
2021-06-26 05:14:15	jim	are you familiar with git?
2021-06-26 05:14:21	Guest6208	yes..
2021-06-26 05:14:48	Guest6208	Is there a chat aspect to git?
2021-06-26 05:14:55	Guest6208	It seems very un-chatlike
2021-06-26 05:14:55	jim	you can find a project on github
2021-06-26 05:15:03	Guest6208	I just made a project on github
2021-06-26 05:15:21	Guest6208	Is github a good site to talk to people on?
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2021-06-26 05:16:01	Sauvin	What's the project?
2021-06-26 05:16:10	Guest6208	Um
2021-06-26 05:16:26	Sauvin	What kind of project is "um"?
2021-06-26 05:16:48	Guest6208	(I was finding the link...)
2021-06-26 05:16:50	Guest6208	https://github.com/gregoryc/semanticmetadata
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2021-06-26 05:17:32	Guest6208	I guess it wouldn't hurt to share this with 1,427 people
2021-06-26 05:17:51	Guest6208	Does anyone here like Crystal (I'm not talking about drugs) ?
2021-06-26 05:17:57	jim	well of course coding and committing is saying something... if lots of people are in the project, they're all generally doing the same thing... making a fork of the main repo, committing to it, testing their stuff, when it seems to work (or if you want them to see what you've done so far even if it's not really finished), you can make a pull request
2021-06-26 05:18:04	Sauvin	And how do you envision using "semantic metadata"?
2021-06-26 05:18:25	Guest6208	Many ways
2021-06-26 05:18:32	Guest6208	Check the server :)
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2021-06-26 05:18:50	Sauvin	I checked the link. Nothing of any substance that I could see.
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2021-06-26 05:18:53	jim	but that will probably turn out to be a very slow conversation
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2021-06-26 05:19:17	Guest6208	No, on the server, with the files
2021-06-26 05:19:30	Guest6208	The github page is fairly blank so far.
2021-06-26 05:19:33	Sauvin	What server?
2021-06-26 05:19:39	Guest6208	...
2021-06-26 05:19:55	Guest6208	Where it says "Mirrors"
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2021-06-26 05:21:39	jim	Guest6208, a handy tool, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in finding channels on this irc net. To get started, /msg alis help
2021-06-26 05:21:40	Sauvin	What is your understanding of "semantic metadata" and how do these files correlate to that understanding?
2021-06-26 05:22:08	Guest6208	The entire field of AI and such, is a very poorly defined field, so far
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2021-06-26 05:22:42	jim	true... and to think they started in the 1960s...
2021-06-26 05:22:44	Guest6208	"Semantic" would mean meaning. Metadata is data about data, or recursive data. That is what I have, and what I generated
2021-06-26 05:22:48	Guest6208	Lol
2021-06-26 05:22:58	Guest6208	What I have, now, is better, and more useful than much AI
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2021-06-26 05:23:06	Guest6208	Examples are listed on my server
2021-06-26 05:23:18	-->	very_sneaky (~very_snea@user/very-sneaky/x-7432109) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 05:23:26	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/AI
2021-06-26 05:23:34	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/
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2021-06-26 05:23:59	jim	are you coding in languages like lisp or scheme?
2021-06-26 05:24:10	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 05:24:11	Guest6208	Well, lol, I want to use Crystal, but I was using D
2021-06-26 05:24:17	Guest6208	But if you want to use LISP, go ahead!
2021-06-26 05:24:18	Guest6208	lol
2021-06-26 05:24:27	Guest6208	Ruby/Crystal are quite functional though
2021-06-26 05:24:28	Sauvin	What is your project's ultimate goal?
2021-06-26 05:24:40	Guest6208	The folder is called "help the world"
2021-06-26 05:24:49	Guest6208	I want to improve life, with data
2021-06-26 05:24:50	Guest6208	or metadata
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2021-06-26 05:25:06	Sauvin	How do you see this metadata helping with that goal?
2021-06-26 05:25:09	Guest6208	I have metadata on the entire english language more or less, every word
2021-06-26 05:25:24	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/AI are some examples
2021-06-26 05:25:34	Guest6208	I just made my github, like yesterday or so
2021-06-26 05:25:40	Sauvin	How do you see this metadata helping with that goal?
2021-06-26 05:26:42	Guest6208	Of making the world a better place? Through more knowledge and understandings of things, from computer and human beings, things can be altered or technologies can be employed to make things better
2021-06-26 05:26:50	Guest6208	Related things can be automatically grouped together
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2021-06-26 05:27:06	NthDegree	Sauvin, well the english language metadata has a business case by looks of "Auto relations between ontological units (things that exist) in the real world"
2021-06-26 05:27:09	Guest6208	Unrelated things can be separated (this could be existentially dangerous)
2021-06-26 05:27:27	Guest6208	Auto-stylization is very useful
2021-06-26 05:27:30	Guest6208	Auto-CSS
2021-06-26 05:27:37	Guest6208	Based on semantics
2021-06-26 05:27:56	Guest6208	You type, it gets styled. Auto float: left, auto many things
2021-06-26 05:28:10	Guest6208	Auto sort, would be insane
2021-06-26 05:28:14	Guest6208	That is possible
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2021-06-26 05:28:16	Guest6208	SEMANTIC sort
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2021-06-26 05:28:28	Guest6208	lol, God joined before semantic sort
2021-06-26 05:28:28	Sauvin	Can you show example code (prototype is OK) that accomplishes any of this?
2021-06-26 05:28:39	Guest6208	Just download the tarball
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2021-06-26 05:29:00	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/word_files/
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2021-06-26 05:29:10	Guest6208	There's a d program that generates code on the server
2021-06-26 05:29:20	Guest6208	You might want to set swappiness to 100 first though
2021-06-26 05:29:26	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/word_files/love
2021-06-26 05:29:28	Guest6208	https://ethicify.online/improve_the_world/word_files/linux
2021-06-26 05:29:41	Guest6208	650 lines of metadata from Wikipedia. Everything is in context of real usage
2021-06-26 05:30:05	Guest6208	word occurences can be seen
2021-06-26 05:30:24	Guest6208	I still have to write APIs to use this code
2021-06-26 05:30:25	<--	u0_a117 (~u0_a117@177.10.203.30) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-26 05:30:28	Guest6208	Though that wouldn't be that hard
2021-06-26 05:30:37	Guest6208	Pan-language is my goal
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2021-06-26 05:30:48	Guest6208	Auto-sort would be insane
2021-06-26 05:30:52	Guest6208	You wouldn't need subreddits
2021-06-26 05:30:59	<--	GOD (~mad@user/god) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-26 05:31:04	Guest6208	Categories of any kind of character would be auto-sorted
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2021-06-26 05:31:31	NthDegree	This might need a lot of manual intervention
2021-06-26 05:31:44	Guest6208	It shouldn't, because it's high-quality
2021-06-26 05:31:54	Guest6208	Manual intervention is a product of poor thinking in this case
2021-06-26 05:32:19	Guest6208	You could auto sort a div, but not lines
2021-06-26 05:32:21	NthDegree	I mean, how does it distinguish between older english interpretations and modern ones?
2021-06-26 05:32:38	Guest6208	Based on context
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2021-06-26 05:32:49	Guest6208	"ye" probably has a lot of older phrases
2021-06-26 05:32:53	Guest6208	"olde"
2021-06-26 05:33:09	Guest6208	I know what every word in the english language is about
2021-06-26 05:33:16	Guest6208	Rather thoroughly
2021-06-26 05:33:36	NthDegree	contiguous and administer would be good examples
2021-06-26 05:33:51	Guest6208	What do you mean?
2021-06-26 05:34:13	NthDegree	contiguous used to be a very commonly used word to describe anything which is directly alongside something else
2021-06-26 05:34:26	Guest6208	And it still means that
2021-06-26 05:34:36	jim	let me suggest, I think we have #programming here...
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2021-06-26 05:35:00	Guest6208	Oh, it's gotten active now
2021-06-26 05:35:03	Guest6208	#programming
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2021-06-26 06:01:30	Guest6208	I set up my github
2021-06-26 06:01:43	Guest6208	Well, I partly set it up
2021-06-26 06:02:03	Guest6208	          There is a lot of information that would be extremely valuable for many people
2021-06-26 06:02:13	Guest6208	Feel free to use it! :)
2021-06-26 06:02:21	Guest6208	The d program can regenerate code
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2021-06-26 06:06:05	echelon	hi
2021-06-26 06:06:31	omegatron	o/
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2021-06-26 06:07:49	echelon	if htop doesn't show which process is pegging resources, what does that usually mean?
2021-06-26 06:07:52	echelon	something is broke?
2021-06-26 06:07:59	propagandhi	I have an intersting Transparent Huge Pages question; How does the kernel know which bits of memory to use with Transparent Huge Pages?
2021-06-26 06:08:17	echelon	i can see that at least 2 cores are pegged at 100%
2021-06-26 06:08:30	echelon	but all the processes are showing 0.0% cpu usage
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2021-06-26 06:19:52	Sayona	echelon, check inodes
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2021-06-26 06:20:35	Sayona	maybe is a I/O issue
2021-06-26 06:20:53	Sayona	iostat?
2021-06-26 06:21:16	echelon	Sayona: how
2021-06-26 06:21:24	Sayona	check iostat command
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2021-06-26 06:21:52	gnux	anyone have experience with tensorflow here
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2021-06-26 06:25:09	echelon	Sayona: https://paste.ee/r/AlQua
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2021-06-26 06:26:59	echelon	Sayona: what does this mean
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2021-06-26 06:30:48	Guest2689	This would be useful for any linux programmer https://github.com/gregoryc/semanticmetadata
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2021-06-26 06:37:04	Mekaneck	Guest2689: stop spamming it all over again
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2021-06-26 06:37:37	Mekaneck	we know you're Guest6208 from earlier
2021-06-26 06:39:11	Guest2689	My irc client got closed by accident
2021-06-26 06:39:15	echelon	Sayona: disk read is only 4.10 M/s, disk write only 200 K/s
2021-06-26 06:39:15	Guest2689	I'm not trying to spam :)
2021-06-26 06:39:39	Guest2689	Good night
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2021-06-26 06:40:19	Guest45	Yo
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2021-06-26 06:44:35	echelon	how do i find out the logical volume names that just show dm-1,dm-2,dm-3, etc
2021-06-26 06:45:25	<--	snoopy (~snoopy@farbauti.uberspace.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-26 06:46:03	colo	not sure what you mean... tried `lsblk` yet?
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2021-06-26 06:46:26	colo	there's also a very good script for making sense of blockdev topology available, called lsdrv
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2021-06-26 06:47:58	Mekaneck	<Guest2689> My irc client got closed by accident ---> no it didn't, you left
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2021-06-26 06:49:16	colo	echelon, https://github.com/pturmel/lsdrv
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2021-06-26 06:50:12	echelon	colo: the system is behaving too slow to download/install new tools
2021-06-26 06:50:21	colo	echelon, it's just a shellscript.
2021-06-26 06:50:23	echelon	i figured it out by doing ls /dev/mapper/*
2021-06-26 06:50:41	colo	ah, it's written in python. my bad.
2021-06-26 06:50:54	echelon	err, ls -l /dev/mapper/*
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2021-06-26 06:51:51	echelon	i meant, iostat was only showing logical volumes as dm-0,dm-1,dm-2,dm-3, etc
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2021-06-26 07:19:15	zircona	I used the command "pacmd set-default-sink 11" to change my default audio sink, but pulseaudio still doesn't automatically switch to headphones when plugged in.  But it does switch to speakers automatically when I unplug them.  What else do I need to do?
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2021-06-26 08:03:48	WebStorm	should I learn ruby on rails or node/express
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2021-06-26 08:12:32	bachatero	If you have amazon prime and want to earn extra money open private
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2021-06-26 08:27:07	akik	bachatero: stop spamming please
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2021-06-26 08:49:51	cyclick	I think that the problem is that whenever I plug and unplug the headphone, the sink # increments
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2021-06-26 08:52:21	u0_a117	Good Morning guys
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2021-06-26 08:54:24	felco	morning
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2021-06-26 08:54:32	akik	cyclick: i made some scripts to switch from laptop audio to hdmi audio
2021-06-26 08:54:32	cyclick	I tried to set the default using the name "pacmd set-default-sink alsa_output.pci-0000_05_00.6.analog-stereo" and it doesn't work either... it only changes the default output if the headphone is currently plugged in
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2021-06-26 08:55:08	cyclick	akik: does it automatically change the output when the headphone is plugged in?
2021-06-26 08:55:22	akik	cyclick: no
2021-06-26 08:55:33	akik	cyclick: i can try what happens with headphones
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2021-06-26 08:56:57	akik	oh right i forgot i switched from pulseaudio to pipewire some weeks ago
2021-06-26 08:57:37	cyclick	akik, maybe I need to do that instead and save me some trouble
2021-06-26 08:57:42	akik	this laptop switches to headphones automatically and back to laptop audio when i disconnect
2021-06-26 08:57:49	cyclick	good
2021-06-26 08:58:33	akik	but i mean you could script that, to find the correct sink
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2021-06-26 08:59:08	cyclick	I have the correct sink name but even when I change the default it doesn't switch automatically
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2021-06-26 09:04:08	sozuba	akik, Followng your bootusb process, windows 11 iso doesn't seems to boot, but i think the issue is with the new requiresments of TMP hardware not of your process, which is stright forward. :)
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2021-06-26 09:04:35	sozuba	windows 10 all thee builds i tested, including the latest worked though
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2021-06-26 09:07:36	akik	sozuba: you're on your own :) what does it do when you try booting it?
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2021-06-26 09:08:00	sozuba	akik, just flashes screen for a few times and hen boots to hard disk.
2021-06-26 09:08:03	ice9	what could be the problem here? https://bpa.st/EC7A
2021-06-26 09:09:00	sozuba	hha, yeah i know this is beyond the scope of your guide, i just wanted to let you know so you are aware. :)
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2021-06-26 09:09:29	akik	sozuba: the problem might not be the tpm but a not supported cpu
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2021-06-26 09:11:39	sozuba	akik, I don;t think so, for one i have not seein support dropped for haswells and 2 i don't think they have any specifications regarding that in their list
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2021-06-26 09:11:55	akik	sozuba: my laptop has tpm 2.0 and the health check app said no
2021-06-26 09:12:10	sozuba	akik, wtf? yours is ater haswell?
2021-06-26 09:12:15	sozuba	after*
2021-06-26 09:12:18	akik	only thing that doesn't match is the skylake i5-6200u cpu
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2021-06-26 09:13:18	sozuba	akik, this si wierd, let me read more about it. I actually thoght secureboot could be a prooblem, so was playing arround with uefi binary signatures (all i am finding is incompatible specifications among different vendors and bugs, its tiring)
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2021-06-26 09:13:25	sozuba	but i will check this too.
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2021-06-26 09:13:43	sozuba	akik, do you have a link for windows 11 compatibility check up?
2021-06-26 09:13:45	--	mesa is now known as mesaboogie
2021-06-26 09:13:57	sozuba	i'll do a websearch though
2021-06-26 09:14:12	akik	sozuba: they came out on twitter that they acknowledge the problem with the health check app https://twitter.com/dispensa/status/1408226015260790787
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2021-06-26 09:14:29	akik	sozuba: let's private msg
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2021-06-26 09:14:52	sozuba	akik, sure please do PM me
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2021-06-26 09:30:25	Dagmar	WHat they mean is "We're going to relax the requirements because we just realized almost no one meets them and we'd like to make money"
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2021-06-26 09:45:32	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-26 09:48:12	akik	there's a video on youtube where this guy boots up the win 11 installer and the installer says no but it doesn't stop this guy's install fest :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO52a70XlYo
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2021-06-26 09:49:18	gry	what does he do then?
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2021-06-26 09:49:43	akik	gry: opens up the shift+f10 command prompt and uses diskpart and dism to install it
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2021-06-26 09:50:56	Dagmar	YouTube is going to ban him for that
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2021-06-26 09:51:11	Dagmar	THey're kinda harsh about people posting non-consensual anytrhing
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2021-06-26 09:51:36	Dagmar	I can't really blame them
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2021-06-26 09:52:46	kurahaupo	Dagmar: Did your children give consent to being conceived?
2021-06-26 09:52:57	ice9	what does this mean?
2021-06-26 09:52:57	ice9	[14305.171337] tsc: Marking TSC unstable due to clocksource watchdog
2021-06-26 09:52:58	ice9	[14305.171403] TSC found unstable after boot, most likely due to broken BIOS. Use 'tsc=unstable'.
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2021-06-26 09:53:13	Dagmar	ice9: Actually, nothing much
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2021-06-26 09:53:33	kurahaupo	ice9: pretty much exactly what it says
2021-06-26 09:54:06	kurahaupo	ice9: Or did you want to know that TSC means?
2021-06-26 09:54:40	Dagmar	You can do the thing it's talking about and pass that parameter to the kernel on boot up or just ignore it.  It's not going to make any serious difference.
2021-06-26 09:54:50	akik	Dagmar: what do you think should microsoft allow windows activation scripts on github?
2021-06-26 09:55:02	ice9	kurahaupo, i want to know what is tsc and what is clocksource watchdog and why it's unstable; though this error doesn't show up every boot
2021-06-26 09:55:18	Dagmar	akik: If you have to ask that then you don't know the state of what passes for PowerShell coding
2021-06-26 09:55:35	Dagmar	ice9: A quick Google search will reveal that much
2021-06-26 09:55:38	ice9	Dagmar, the issue is that i'm facing freezes and crashes when the laptop screen turns off and idon't see anything in the journal
2021-06-26 09:55:46	kurahaupo	ice9: Do you want me to read Google and tell you?
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2021-06-26 09:56:42	ice9	kurahaupo, i didn't get what i'm looking for on google
2021-06-26 09:57:13	Dagmar	The results that show up for me were clear enough.  You just have to actually read them
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2021-06-26 09:57:38	Dagmar	At any rate, doing the thing it says won't harm anything.
2021-06-26 09:57:40	kurahaupo	ice9: The TSC is a counter that's built into the CPU. It's supposed to be monotonic, so if hyperthreads can obtain out-of-order values, that would be "unstable"
2021-06-26 09:57:48	Dagmar	Making the message go _away_ will require you hassling your laptop manufacturer
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2021-06-26 09:58:50	kurahaupo	ice9: It's not terrible, the kernel can compensate, but since the hardware is technically broken, it's telling you so that you can put in a warranty claim
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2021-06-26 09:59:39	kurahaupo	Or you can tell the kernel that you don't plan to fix it, so it will stop nagging you
2021-06-26 09:59:50	Dagmar	YEah good luck with that one
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2021-06-26 10:00:13	Dagmar	Tehres' at least two intel chip lines that it's simply never reliable on
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2021-06-26 10:01:22	kurahaupo	If your name is "Alphabet Inc" and you're buying CPUs in million lots, you can probably get the CPU manufacturer to fix it. if your name is "Smith", and you're buying one CPU, probably not.
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2021-06-26 10:01:38	akik	Dagmar: not even powershell but batch scripts :) https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts/ https://github.com/abbodi1406/KMS_VL_ALL_AIO/
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2021-06-26 10:01:49	Dagmar	akik: That's part of the reason
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2021-06-26 10:02:26	Dagmar	ANyway, if they'll allow people to post conspiracy theory garbage with the hand-wavy excuse "THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!" then they're definitely going to allow code in garbage languages
2021-06-26 10:02:52	akik	i mainly meant those scripts are used to not pay microsoft for the license
2021-06-26 10:03:01	akik	hosted on a microsoft owned service
2021-06-26 10:03:12	Dagmar	Technically they *could* bounce the conspiracy kook if they took a marginally strict interpretation of their ToS with respect to the posting of misinformation
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2021-06-26 10:05:07	Dagmar	akik: You should try managing a bunch fo Windows machines via AD.  It's a complete poopshow.
2021-06-26 10:05:55	Dagmar	BEtween vendor tweaks and differences in which specific number-letter-number-number build came on the device, it's remarkably like managing a bunch of Gentoo boxes you didn't build
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2021-06-26 10:06:22	akik	i'm lucky that i haven't needed to do that
2021-06-26 10:06:27	Dagmar	The AD guys at work make me happy I'm just responsible for unix machines and a slew of pis
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2021-06-26 10:08:43	gry	akik: nice
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2021-06-26 10:14:04	f0xb4t	hey
2021-06-26 10:14:50	f0xb4t	in locate's man I found: Because \ is a globbing character, this disables the implicit replacement of NAME by *NAME*.
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2021-06-26 10:15:19	f0xb4t	then '\' character is general globbing character to do that or specific to locate only?
2021-06-26 10:16:13	gry	general
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2021-06-26 10:16:32	easyme	Is there any problem if I use linux on virtualbox?
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2021-06-26 10:17:34	f0xb4t	then in regular use he replaces 'NAME' with '*NAME*', when I provide '\NAME' then it will be changed to what? '\*NAME*' ?
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2021-06-26 10:20:27	gry	easyme: probably not
2021-06-26 10:21:21	gry	f0xb4t: I would suggest to experiment. Without specifics about which command you would like to run, it is hard to tell.
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2021-06-26 10:21:45	akik	easyme: can't say if there's any problem but it works
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2021-06-26 10:22:04	f0xb4t	I have in mind: locate -b fname
2021-06-26 10:22:20	f0xb4t	he will replace it with: locate -b '*fname*'
2021-06-26 10:22:51	f0xb4t	if I provide it as: locate -b '\fname'
2021-06-26 10:23:08	f0xb4t	how this backslash will affect it?
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2021-06-26 10:24:13	f0xb4t	I would expect it to be replaced with: '*\fname*'
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2021-06-26 10:46:18	ice9	why systemd-logind is trying to access the kernel image? "Lockdown: systemd-logind: hibernation is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7"
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2021-06-26 10:53:33	drip	its checking to see if the kernel has hibernate support
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2021-06-26 11:01:50	Helmholtz1	I have a table. I want to select two numbers from specific rows and columns. How can I do it? https://termbin.com/v9mp
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2021-06-26 11:02:17	Helmholtz1	Here I want 5 and 6 by addressing z:B and z:C
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2021-06-26 11:04:39	longxia	how is this related to Linux?
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2021-06-26 11:05:16	onelegend	longxia: lobster
2021-06-26 11:05:28	longxia	hello onelegend
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2021-06-26 11:05:41	Helmholtz1	longxia, awk/sed
2021-06-26 11:05:47	Helmholtz1	or should I ask there?
2021-06-26 11:06:08	Psi-Jack	Helmholtz1: Well, awk is basically a programming language.,
2021-06-26 11:06:09	longxia	Helmholtz1: maybe, but I think your question needed context first of all
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2021-06-26 11:06:25	Psi-Jack	This some kind of homework or something?
2021-06-26 11:06:50	Helmholtz1	Psi-Jack, is it that easy? no
2021-06-26 11:07:00	Helmholtz1	I want to parse netstat -i
2021-06-26 11:07:04	Psi-Jack	Stop!
2021-06-26 11:07:13	Psi-Jack	netstat is broken and obsoleted.
2021-06-26 11:07:29	Helmholtz1	ip -s link show dev wlp3s0 instead?
2021-06-26 11:07:32	Psi-Jack	You should be using ss, which actually IS more machine parsable.
2021-06-26 11:07:41	Psi-Jack	ip as well. :)
2021-06-26 11:08:07	Helmholtz1	Is ss more portable?
2021-06-26 11:08:17	Psi-Jack	portable..... IN what way?
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2021-06-26 11:09:23	Helmholtz1	I mean ip does not exist in old systems
2021-06-26 11:09:32	Psi-Jack	VERY old systems.
2021-06-26 11:09:48	longxia	Helmholtz1: netstat does not exist on Ubuntu 20 LTS by default, on the other hand.
2021-06-26 11:09:54	Psi-Jack	^
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2021-06-26 11:09:59	Helmholtz1	oofff
2021-06-26 11:10:02	Helmholtz1	good to know
2021-06-26 11:10:06	Psi-Jack	Or most modern major distros.
2021-06-26 11:10:18	Psi-Jack	Actually... All major distros today.
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2021-06-26 11:10:27	Helmholtz1	Actually I want RX/TX of network interface like wlp3s0
2021-06-26 11:10:39	Helmholtz1	Should I cat that weird address instead?
2021-06-26 11:10:42	Psi-Jack	That you can get from proc.
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2021-06-26 11:10:57	Psi-Jack	IIRC.
2021-06-26 11:11:26	rascul	ifstat?
2021-06-26 11:11:34	Psi-Jack	Nope /proc/net/dev
2021-06-26 11:11:38	Psi-Jack	Right there.
2021-06-26 11:12:12	Helmholtz1	lol how the hell can I parse this cat /proc/net/dev
2021-06-26 11:12:52	reduce	I use debian "testing" (bullseye) and netstat seems to have been installed as part of the default
2021-06-26 11:13:01	reduce	what's wrong with it anyway?
2021-06-26 11:13:11	Helmholtz1	I can do it with counts but is the format the same on other distros?
2021-06-26 11:13:30	Psi-Jack	reduce: It uses obsoleted old and breaking ioctl calls that were replaced by netlink calls which ip/ss uses.
2021-06-26 11:13:30	rascul	'ifstat -a' is what i was thinking of but it's mostly just a slightly easier to read /proc/net/dev
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2021-06-26 11:14:02	Psi-Jack	rascul: But, if this is for a script, /proc/net/dev is great.
2021-06-26 11:14:10	Psi-Jack	Perfect, even.
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2021-06-26 11:14:30	Helmholtz1	Psi-Jack, yeah I want to write a bandwidth monitor...It's strange that such a script is not really famous
2021-06-26 11:14:41	rascul	there are a plethora of bandwidth monitors
2021-06-26 11:14:43	Psi-Jack	There are already tools for that....
2021-06-26 11:14:43	Helmholtz1	One should not need an external tool for such a task
2021-06-26 11:15:00	rascul	but you're wanting to write one
2021-06-26 11:15:06	rascul	an external tool for such a task
2021-06-26 11:15:08	Helmholtz1	Psi-Jack, yeah but how can you integrate that to a statusbar?
2021-06-26 11:15:29	Helmholtz1	Their ranges are also shitty...many are B/s some are fixed to KiB/s...its not dyanmic
2021-06-26 11:15:59	Psi-Jack	Helmholtz1: Why the frack would I care?
2021-06-26 11:16:04	Helmholtz1	rascul, I'm writing a shell script
2021-06-26 11:16:04	rascul	the implementation details probably depend on the statusbar but i suspect you'll be polling /proc/net/dev periodically to parse the values you want
2021-06-26 11:16:11	Helmholtz1	Psi-Jack, dynamic range?
2021-06-26 11:16:29	Helmholtz1	Maybe if your network is not as flaky as mine, yeah you don't care
2021-06-26 11:16:48	Psi-Jack	Sounds like you need to fix an actual problem, not write bandaids.
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2021-06-26 11:17:12	Helmholtz1	rascul, yeah I'm planning to do that. Then signal to polybar
2021-06-26 11:17:38	Helmholtz1	polybar has a C++ bandwidth monitor but it's dumb
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2021-06-26 11:22:02	Psi-Jack	heh. I ordered an HDD from Amazon last night with same-day delivery, along with a couple other things that are supposed to arrive same-day. I'm curious if Amazon's going to deliver on that same-day. Cause, I have a server that's crashing every other hour from a failing HDD.
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2021-06-26 11:23:01	SkunkyLaptop	Psi-Jack: they do sometimes.  but it kiunda depends on who they use for last mile delivery where you are.  if it's USPS...
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2021-06-26 11:23:41	Psi-Jack	heh. USPS... Yeah no. I don't trust them anymore. My local carrier "honked" without ever coming to my door, for certified mail.
2021-06-26 11:23:44	Psi-Jack	Twice.
2021-06-26 11:24:03	node1	Any command line to convert -3.3602830000e-04 into -0.000320308 ?
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2021-06-26 11:25:07	Byteflux	The checkout shouldn't allow you to select Same Day for an item if it's past the cutoff time, so fairly good chance it's same day but it's not guaranteed.
2021-06-26 11:25:40	Psi-Jack	Well, the cut-off period was 3 hours from the time I was ordering. LOL
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2021-06-26 11:27:20	bpmedley	node1 : $ printf "%.14f" "-3.3602830000e-04"
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2021-06-26 11:28:40	node1	bpmedley, I see thanks
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2021-06-26 11:31:30	Helmholtz1	Is this portable? /sys/class/net/$dev/statistics/rx_bytes
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2021-06-26 11:32:48	Samizdat	If a USPS postman can train his customers to come outside and get their mail, he's getting out more mail faster for the same stamp price.
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2021-06-26 11:33:10	Samizdat	In the ideally woke world, he'd have to shut off his engine and call a shop steward.
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2021-06-26 11:36:40	longxia	Samizdat: I wonder, isn't the USPS legally bound to deliver to an actual address, and not a person that comes to the van?
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2021-06-26 11:36:56	bpmedley	Random zombies getting someone's mail..
2021-06-26 11:37:00	longxia	s/not a/not to a/
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2021-06-26 11:39:14	Psi-Jack	longxia: Well, they are supposed to deliver to an address, yes. But to park in front of a house, honk their toy horn of their mail carrier vehicle, and drive off if the people inside their home can't hear the toy horn because they live in a house where insulation is great, and noise reduction drowns out their horn, and they're supposed to hand deliver certified mail /annyway/... Because a signature is required...
2021-06-26 11:39:22	onelegend	HONK
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2021-06-26 11:39:27	onelegend	anyways
2021-06-26 11:39:31	onelegend	email is more secure than real mail
2021-06-26 11:39:35	onelegend	prove me wrong
2021-06-26 11:39:50	theseb	help!  My Django server freezes after just a few hours....top shows uwsgi taking around 100% of cpu....Looking at syslog output is revealing....any ideas? how track down where cpu going?
2021-06-26 11:40:14	Psi-Jack	theseb: Well, htop, atop. Start there.
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2021-06-26 11:40:56	longxia	Psi-Jack: is there nothing you can do against that behaviour?
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2021-06-26 11:42:12	Psi-Jack	longxia: Oh, I reported it to usps.com, they reported it ot the local office, because you cannot call the local office, nobody ever answers, and I got a response back that the supervisor spoke to the carrier about it.
2021-06-26 11:42:30	Psi-Jack	It was a college student, seemed newish at the job.
2021-06-26 11:42:50	longxia	aha, so that fixed it?
2021-06-26 11:42:56	Psi-Jack	Because second time they came by and I saw them... I chased the carrier down.
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2021-06-26 11:44:38	Psi-Jack	But yeah, same-day, I'm curious. 4TB Seagate Exos HDD to replace ... What's it replacing one sec...
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2021-06-26 11:45:36	paulcarroty	don't buy WD :)
2021-06-26 11:45:48	theseb	Psi-Jack: wait...do htop and atop give more/different info than top? never heard of those...nice!
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2021-06-26 11:45:59	paulcarroty	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/mass-data-wipe-in-my-book-devices-prompts-warning-from-western-digital/
2021-06-26 11:46:05	Psi-Jack	I haven't bought WD in a bit. I've had a lot of WD's die more quickly lately than anything else I've bought, sadly. And I was a heavy WD supporter/user/.
2021-06-26 11:46:24	Psi-Jack	theseb: They give useful info. Especially atop.
2021-06-26 11:46:43	Psi-Jack	htop is just prettier, and better TUI
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2021-06-26 11:48:55	longxia	paulcarroty: and: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/05/western-digital-gets-sued-for-sneaking-smr-disks-into-its-nas-channel/
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2021-06-26 11:49:14	theseb	Psi-Jack: thanks...just installed atop and am running...is it possible to also drill down into details of a server process?  Reason I ask is top told me the cpu hog is a server daemon called uwsgi...however...I don't know why/how this specific web app is burning cpu.
2021-06-26 11:49:18	paulcarroty	hahah
2021-06-26 11:49:20	osh	hey does anyone know how long to bake a turkey
2021-06-26 11:49:47	theseb	osh: until it is cooked perhaps?
2021-06-26 11:49:49	longxia	osh: depends on the CPU you put it on
2021-06-26 11:50:00	longxia	or GPU
2021-06-26 11:50:02	bpmedley	Let the parcel service deliver them cooked..
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2021-06-26 11:50:29	Psi-Jack	Huh, an HGST HMS5C4040BL is what's almost dead. SMART even says it.
2021-06-26 11:50:32	osh	it will be on a pentium 4 running original farcry
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2021-06-26 11:51:45	Psi-Jack	longxia: Oh, yeah, I have heard that suit. I have one or two WD Red drives that do NOT fall under the SMR.
2021-06-26 11:51:52	Psi-Jack	Just barely. :)
2021-06-26 11:52:06	johnnyapol	Psi-Jack:WD bought HGST so it wouldnt suprise me if some WD drives identify as HGST
2021-06-26 11:52:15	Psi-Jack	And they are actually still holding up, where-as this HGST, which is actually Hitachi not WD, died.
2021-06-26 11:52:37	Psi-Jack	Though it did last.
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2021-06-26 11:57:27	Psi-Jack	Yeah, I ordered that drive back in September 2017, and it's lasted just past the 3 year warranty.
2021-06-26 11:58:02	Psi-Jack	Probably should've ordered another one. :)
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2021-06-26 12:01:48	paulcarroty	3y is good working time for hdd now
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2021-06-26 12:05:51	OPx069	hello
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2021-06-26 12:06:06	OPx069	ssup
2021-06-26 12:06:21	OPx069	anyone having problems with python3?
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2021-06-26 12:06:28	Psi-Jack	No
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2021-06-26 12:25:29	Protocol2	Python 3 isn't paying child support and he refuses to come to court
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2021-06-26 12:27:20	loworderbit	No
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2021-06-26 12:29:17	theseb	I have a web app where the cpu usage for the uwsgi daemon shots up to 100% every hour or so.  I don't see in any logs what the hell is causing this?  Any ideas how to drill down into why this one specific uwsgi proces does this when the others are fine?
2021-06-26 12:29:41	Psi-Jack	Well, uwsgi signifies a web application.
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2021-06-26 12:30:31	bpmedley	theseb : How long is the 100% cpu spike?
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2021-06-26 12:31:20	theseb	bpmedley: good question...i don't know because i reboot things in desperation...i'm reading now about some possible issue with uwsgi using threads
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2021-06-26 12:31:52	Psi-Jack	uwsgi isn't really the problem. It's whatever the web application it's running is.\
2021-06-26 12:32:16	Psi-Jack	application(s), and of course this could also entail how much traffic is being utilized, too.
2021-06-26 12:32:19	bpmedley	theseb : Any incoming HTTP requests at the same time (or earlier) than the 100% spike?
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2021-06-26 12:32:53	theseb	bpmedley: no
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2021-06-26 12:33:15	Psi-Jack	You're certain of this?
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2021-06-26 12:33:39	theseb	Psi-Jack: i'm looking at the logs so i think so
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2021-06-26 12:33:58	theseb	it is a little private server for 2 people not big time real work
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2021-06-26 12:34:22	bpmedley	theseb : Do the logs log only completed requests or also requests that never completed?
2021-06-26 12:34:28	Psi-Jack	RAM utilization?
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2021-06-26 12:36:13	theseb	bpmedley: hmm i don't know
2021-06-26 12:36:49	theseb	bpmedley: i think syslog as both
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2021-06-26 12:38:01	theseb	Psi-Jack, bpmedley: i'm turning off some uwsgi switches..i wonder if this master and threads crap if any of that is the issue
2021-06-26 12:38:20	Psi-Jack	heh. Umm, okay.
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2021-06-26 12:41:56	theseb	bpmedley, Psi-Jack: thanks for trying...sorry...a little panicky about this....hoping this fixes it
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2021-06-26 12:42:42	Psi-Jack	I mean, nothing you've said makes much to go on.
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2021-06-26 12:44:31	Psi-Jack	Further, if it's just some small-time thing where 2 users use it, there's absolutely no reason to get all panicky about it. Provide the requested information, and try to solve the actual problem, not do random things needlessly.
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2021-06-26 12:44:43	Psi-Jack	Just my $0.02 worth.
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2021-06-26 12:46:17	theseb	Psi-Jack: the problem is me...i'm not a professional sysadmin...i don't how to get more info
2021-06-26 12:46:25	theseb	Psi-Jack: all i now is syslog and top
2021-06-26 12:46:45	theseb	know*
2021-06-26 12:46:47	bpmedley	theseb : Do all uwsgi logs goto syslog?
2021-06-26 12:47:02	Psi-Jack	theseb: And yet, RAM utilization remains still unanswered.
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2021-06-26 12:47:43	Dagmar	Blame teh developers.
2021-06-26 12:47:46	Dagmar	They caused the problem.
2021-06-26 12:47:49	theseb	Psi-Jack: i do see on top that next to the %cpu column there is a %mem col...if i see another spike in a few minutes i'll tell you if the mem spikes as well
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2021-06-26 12:47:54	Psi-Jack	Several factors cause "load". The lack of RAM from other things consuming/locking it. Disk I/O, Network I/O, basically any I/O.
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2021-06-26 12:48:21	theseb	bpmedley: i'm running uwsgi in the shell myself now so all output is going to stdio
2021-06-26 12:48:27	Dagmar	If you're "just a sysadmin" your job is to provide a stable and reasonably robust computing environment for other people to do work.
2021-06-26 12:48:47	Dagmar	That means fixing the bug that's making their software drive the webserver insane is _their_ problem..
2021-06-26 12:49:05	Psi-Jack	And atop has this great thing, a massive display of a lot of stats, including disk utilization, ram utilization, swap utilization, and so much more.... All on one screen.
2021-06-26 12:49:15	Dagmar	Your sole problem is catching it when it runs amok, killing it to preserve the machine, and restoring the daemon to serving normal queries.
2021-06-26 12:49:27	theseb	Dagmar: are you a sysadmin? this feels hellish....what if some app people depending on went wonky overnight and no one knew how to fix it?
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2021-06-26 12:49:38	Dagmar	I *am* a sysadmin
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2021-06-26 12:49:43	Psi-Jack	No Dagmar is more of an actual engineer.
2021-06-26 12:49:52	bpmedley	theseb : What do you see in stdio?
2021-06-26 12:49:53	Psi-Jack	sysadmins are the lower level chums. :)
2021-06-26 12:49:58	Dagmar	Just because it runs on "your" platform doesn't mean you take the blame or responsibility for everything that goes on.
2021-06-26 12:50:05	theseb	Dagmar: i read that Google's services had like 2 or 3 outages in 2020...imagine that...FFS...even Google has downtime!? I mean what the hell?
2021-06-26 12:50:23	Dagmar	Google has redundancy, so their "downtime" as such is basically a non-issue 99.999% of the time
2021-06-26 12:50:28	theseb	Dagmar: i can only imagine the stress level at google when you're losing a few million a minute due to some OAuth bug
2021-06-26 12:50:43	Dagmar	That's why one has change management and _testing_ procedures
2021-06-26 12:51:10	Dagmar	Her'es the thing about taking the blame for other people's bad work
2021-06-26 12:51:15	Dagmar	That blame never turns into _money_
2021-06-26 12:52:10	Dagmar	You can force the thing to dump core when it's wedged (basically, the kernel dumps the entire processes memory space to a flat file), hand it to the developers and say "Have fun!"
2021-06-26 12:52:42	Dagmar	Youre not going to figure out why it's crashing or running out of control by examining it with external tools that only represent an overview of system acticity
2021-06-26 12:52:44	Dagmar	er activity.
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2021-06-26 12:54:16	Dagmar	One thing you _can_ do (if the developers are responsible adults) is look for any debugging logs its' generating
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2021-06-26 12:54:34	Dagmar	During development, one _always_ throws in lines so the application will keep a running narration of the crap it's doing.
2021-06-26 12:54:36	theseb	bpmedley: here is everything between restarts...https://pastebin.com/eYB6fUgA
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2021-06-26 12:55:31	Dagmar	I'm so surprised there's nothing useful in there </deadpan>
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2021-06-26 12:56:22	Dagmar	theseb: I trust the ^C at the end was you killing it with ctrl-c?
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2021-06-26 12:57:00	theseb	Dagmar: yes..i'm running uwsgi in a terminal
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2021-06-26 12:57:27	Dagmar	...and you're _certain_ the terminal can never block output?
2021-06-26 12:57:50	theseb	Dagmar: hmmm i don't know to be honest
2021-06-26 12:58:24	Dagmar	One of the reasons formal "daemons" are so picky about closing all unneeded filehandles (especially stdin/stdout/stderr) is becuase terrible things happen if something tries to writ to one of those and it's buffer is full and there's no listener
2021-06-26 12:58:40	theseb	Dagmar: Did you know Google had a worldwide outage in Dec for about 1 hr due to some OAuth issue?  it is kind of mysterious because just before US Govt had a major cyberattack...so conspiracy theorists are having a field day
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2021-06-26 12:59:24	Dagmar	Conspiracy theorists have no idea what goes on in professional network engineering spaces
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2021-06-26 12:59:41	theseb	Dagmar: like you said...they have massive redundancy so i don't see how that happened
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2021-06-26 12:59:51	Dagmar	They stand about as much chance of getting things right as a medieval peasant has of understanding nuclear physics.
2021-06-26 13:00:20	--	section1_ is now known as Section1
2021-06-26 13:00:27	Dagmar	theseb: Testing can't catch everything.  Sometimes even large changes, despite best efforts, will fail.
2021-06-26 13:00:27	hodapp	how can you be so sure about anything when *people are doing things you don't even know about*
2021-06-26 13:00:47	theseb	Dagmar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Google_services_outages#December_2020_services_outage
2021-06-26 13:00:51	Dagmar	hodapp: If you don't have change management procedures in place, it's literally the actual problem
2021-06-26 13:01:10	hodapp	but... conspiracies
2021-06-26 13:01:58	Dagmar	theseb: What matters when something goes wrong in production is twofold... One, the engineers get a window of time to scrutinize what's going on because there _may_ have been an undocumented change, or something unique to the production environment that was not known prior to the change going live.
2021-06-26 13:02:04	theseb	"Google identified the issue as an accidental reduction of capacity on their central user ID management system, causing requests that required OAuth-based authentication to fail;"
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2021-06-26 13:02:07	Dagmar	THe other part is _being able to roll back the change_, restoring service.
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2021-06-26 13:02:27	theseb	So Google pays these guys probably $120/yr to handle this full time....sigh
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2021-06-26 13:02:35	Dagmar	 So they had both those things going on
2021-06-26 13:03:03	hodapp	graaah... anyone use mocp for music, and have a clue how I can: search for a track, then add it to the playlist, *not* just play it immediately?
2021-06-26 13:03:03	Dagmar	If they hadn't had the first one, they would not have been able to figure out what went wrong and trying to roll that change out later would have _also_ likely failed.
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2021-06-26 13:03:34	theseb	Dagmar: I agree with you about rollback...so why did Google take over 1 hr to rollback?
2021-06-26 13:03:53	Dagmar	Like you said, it's a _big_ system
2021-06-26 13:03:56	theseb	Dagmar: seems they would have had some automatic trigger or some such that kick in within 2 min or something
2021-06-26 13:04:02	Dagmar	There's a lot of boxes to tick and a lot of things to look at
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2021-06-26 13:04:31	Dagmar	By example, at one point in the 90's Carnegie-Melon had one of the biggest Kerberos setups going
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2021-06-26 13:05:12	Dagmar	Should the campus have suffered even a partial power failure, bring that back up took a minimumu of 15-20 minutes and required five people in five different locations
2021-06-26 13:05:19	theseb	Dagmar: Do you think we'll ever have 100% uptime?  Seems like with enough redudancy and triggers should be possible but what do i nkow
2021-06-26 13:05:20	theseb	know*
2021-06-26 13:05:34	Dagmar	100% uptime over what timeframe
2021-06-26 13:05:41	theseb	decade?
2021-06-26 13:05:42	Dagmar	One month, probably
2021-06-26 13:05:46	Dagmar	A decade?  NO.
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2021-06-26 13:06:05	Dagmar	Hardware fails all the time.
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2021-06-26 13:06:34	Dagmar	...and with ten years to work on it, someone's going to find a way to redefine "availability" to include instances which are actually down but aren't part of the workflow
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2021-06-26 13:06:41	theseb	Dagmar: the sad truth is it is practically a national security threat when all of Google does down....i think hospitals and other essential services were affected
2021-06-26 13:06:42	Dagmar	...or they'll pull some other form of true scotsman
2021-06-26 13:07:00	Dagmar	That's no different than if Office 364 goes down
2021-06-26 13:07:01	theseb	Dagmar: talk about corporate power
2021-06-26 13:08:05	Dagmar	Plus everything gets replaced in about 3-5 years
2021-06-26 13:08:23	Dagmar	OAuth became OAuth2 in way less than ten years
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2021-06-26 13:08:49	Dagmar	The only thing that remain the same for a decade are the thing we throw into outer space, never to return
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2021-06-26 13:09:43	theseb	Dagmar, Psi-Jack, bpmedley : bottom line....All I did was turn off threads for this uwsgi daemon and something else called "master"...now things seems to be fine......I don't think logs would have ever caught this..i just had a hunch from some stackoverflow post i saw
2021-06-26 13:10:36	 *	Psi-Jack shrugs. 
2021-06-26 13:10:41	Psi-Jack	I do threading all the time with uwsgi.
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2021-06-26 13:11:51	theseb	Psi-Jack: my website has run multiple sites for months...I have no idea why uwsgi decided to blow up this week...i didn't change anything
2021-06-26 13:11:56	bpmedley	theseb : Thanks for letting us know!
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2021-06-26 13:12:55	theseb	Psi-Jack: https://github.com/unbit/uwsgi/issues/779 <--- This guy said for 12 mos all was fine and then out of the blue uwsgi started blowing up for no apparent reason...just shoot me now
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2021-06-26 13:13:43	Psi-Jack	A closed issue.
2021-06-26 13:13:50	<--	sebastianos (~sebastian@user/sebastianos) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-26 13:13:54	Psi-Jack	A very OLD issue.
2021-06-26 13:13:58	theseb	Psi-Jack: yes admittedly it is an old issue
2021-06-26 13:14:16	jaggz	anyone have a "cd-recent" command that'll look at recent directories you've used and pop up a list of them to cd to one?  cd - sometimes doesn't go back far enough. :)
2021-06-26 13:14:17	theseb	still...nice to know i'm not first person to see some random out of the blow uwsgi explosion
2021-06-26 13:14:25	theseb	Psi-Jack: you can't make this stuff up
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2021-06-26 13:14:38	bpmedley	jaggz : Have you seen pushd?
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2021-06-26 13:14:45	blackgatonegro	Hello people
2021-06-26 13:14:50	Psi-Jack	What do people call these kind of "issues"? Where you re-open a very old long-time closed issue?
2021-06-26 13:15:00	Psi-Jack	Necroposting?
2021-06-26 13:15:06	theseb	bpmedley: glad i was /somewhat/ useful!
2021-06-26 13:15:14	kurahaupo	any time I see a random issue where the work around is "turn off threading", I'm going to suspect some kind of race condition or improper resource locking
2021-06-26 13:15:21	jaggz	bpmedley, yeah. don't want to do it deliberately though
2021-06-26 13:15:31	jaggz	i use push/popd
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2021-06-26 13:15:36	theseb	Psi-Jack: off topic but apparently there is some famous mysql bug that is like 18 years old and still hasn't been fixed
2021-06-26 13:15:41	kurahaupo	(so far I haven't been wrong)
2021-06-26 13:15:47	theseb	it's been called postgresql's best promoter
2021-06-26 13:15:50	jaggz	but, I was in ~/.mozilla/something/something/... then went to my ~/tmp/ dir
2021-06-26 13:16:00	blackgatonegro	Well, that happens.
2021-06-26 13:16:09	jaggz	then did cd - and I was at home (~/) instead.. so I realized I cd'ed twice :)
2021-06-26 13:16:10	Psi-Jack	PostgreSQL's biggest promoter is the fact it's a real RDBMS, where mysql is not.
2021-06-26 13:16:17	blackgatonegro	Unless something is labelled urgent
2021-06-26 13:16:23	jaggz	and now my punishment is that I must go grab my mouse or something
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2021-06-26 13:16:27	Psi-Jack	And PostgreSQL is actually ACID compliant, and mysql can never be.
2021-06-26 13:16:50	Psi-Jack	Oh, and of course that PostgreSQL is actually faster and more tunable. :D
2021-06-26 13:17:14	jaggz	isn't it a bit obnoxious of us, working in unix all this time, and having all these commands in our shell .history files, and we can't even say "go where we were 2 steps ago"
2021-06-26 13:17:19	onelegend	PostgreSQL is awesome
2021-06-26 13:17:23	theseb	Psi-Jack: yea...glad i finally saw the light and switched
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2021-06-26 13:18:34	blackgatonegro	ACID?
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2021-06-26 13:18:41	blackgatonegro	That sounds hilarious
2021-06-26 13:19:00	Psi-Jack	ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability)
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2021-06-26 13:19:24	blackgatonegro	It was the eighties they know what they did
2021-06-26 13:19:43	kurahaupo	jaggz: pushd+popd is nice for user interaction, but this is less obvious: mkdir a b ; touch a/A b/B ; cd a ; ls ; pushd .. ; mv a x ; mv b a ; popd ; ls # I would prefer a version that uses open file descriptors so that after popd I see A again
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2021-06-26 13:20:11	Psi-Jack	Get head out of gutter. \
2021-06-26 13:20:16	blackgatonegro	Eh standards are standards for a reason and that reason is compatibility
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2021-06-26 13:20:55	Psi-Jack	Standards are compatibility, sustainability, and maintainability.
2021-06-26 13:21:32	blackgatonegro	sustainability, and maintainability suffer the more you keep compatibility with old things.
2021-06-26 13:21:39	blackgatonegro	Just look at Windows
2021-06-26 13:21:42	Psi-Jack	Not necessarily.
2021-06-26 13:21:47	Psi-Jack	Windows is a prime bad example.
2021-06-26 13:22:03	Psi-Jack	Because Windows constantly /changes/ standards.
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2021-06-26 13:22:37	blackgatonegro	Compatibility does cause maintainability problems.
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2021-06-26 13:23:21	Psi-Jack	Depends on how well you manage it.
2021-06-26 13:23:21	blackgatonegro	As when doing maintenance you have to make sure to not break comp
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2021-06-26 13:23:24	Sauvin	blackgatonegro, your Windows example, as Psi-Jack notes, is terrible partly because Redmond wouldn't know "standards" from toilet paper.
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2021-06-26 13:23:39	Psi-Jack	haha
2021-06-26 13:23:44	Psi-Jack	Quite true, Sauvin.
2021-06-26 13:23:47	Sauvin	When doing maintenance you have to worry about not breaking things *anyway*.
2021-06-26 13:23:54	Psi-Jack	Exactly!
2021-06-26 13:23:58	blackgatonegro	That reminds me of those smart screens in public bathrooms, they run windows.
2021-06-26 13:24:05	jaggz	kurahaupo, hmmmmm
2021-06-26 13:24:12	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-26 13:24:14	blackgatonegro	And they are redundant and bad fir higiene.
2021-06-26 13:24:21	jaggz	kurahaupo, how do you get the path back out of the open fd
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2021-06-26 13:24:36	Sauvin	.oO(somehow the concepts of "screen" and "bathroom" just don't belong in the same sentence, except as negation)
2021-06-26 13:25:23	blackgatonegro	Sauvin but the less legacy you have to be compatible with, the faster and easier is doing maintenance.
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2021-06-26 13:26:07	jaggz	Sauvin, wut.  "We're screening the bathrooms to find the source of the problem"
2021-06-26 13:26:10	blackgatonegro	Sauvin yet they still exist if only to push ads.
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2021-06-26 13:26:29	blackgatonegro	I wish I was making this up, really.
2021-06-26 13:26:29	Sauvin	What the hell does "legacy" and "ads" have to do with each other?
2021-06-26 13:26:37	blackgatonegro	Nothing
2021-06-26 13:26:38	jaggz	Legacy bathrooms
2021-06-26 13:27:07	Sauvin	blackgatonegro, if you're trying to troll us, you're doing a hell of a job.
2021-06-26 13:27:13	jaggz	"The bathroom screens are broken, letting the flies in."
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2021-06-26 13:27:29	jaggz	blackgatonegro, "I wish I *were* making this up"
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2021-06-26 13:27:36	Sauvin	Standards exist for quite a few reasons. One is to make collaboration possible. Another is to *ease* maintenance.
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2021-06-26 13:28:21	Sauvin	The Windows example is terrible because the underlying operating systems changed radically across generations. DOS has bugger-all to do with the Windows parts of Win3-Win9.
2021-06-26 13:28:36	jaggz	kurahaupo, I have https://paste.debian.net/1202511/  my find-buffer-path script
2021-06-26 13:28:39	Sauvin	Likewise, NT-class Windows had nothing to do with Win3 or its forerunning DOS.
2021-06-26 13:28:48	blackgatonegro	Basically someone mentioned toilet paper snd windows and I was like "Hey that screen thing on oublic bathrooms that has ads and a reminder to wash your hand probably runs on Windows"
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2021-06-26 13:29:22	blackgatonegro	NT is however "inspired" by OS/2
2021-06-26 13:29:27	jaggz	it'll look through the last screen of tmux buffer for paths (the regex to match the dirs is done in perl and can/should be customized maybe)
2021-06-26 13:29:28	Sauvin	A great deal of UNIX hasn't changed in thirty years or more precisely because there've been no need to adopt new standards to fit new coding problems.
2021-06-26 13:29:44	Sauvin	Actually, OS/2 and Windows NT were co-developed.
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2021-06-26 13:30:26	Sauvin	A rift developed between MS and IBM, and so NT went on to become NT, and OS/2 went its own way. For quite a while, OS/2 could run NT code.
2021-06-26 13:30:29	blackgatonegro	And that a bad business for IBM that was.
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2021-06-26 13:30:32	jaggz	kurahaupo, then my cdb () bash function calls it (needed to get the final 'cd' into the current bash) https://paste.debian.net/1202512/
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2021-06-26 13:31:15	blackgatonegro	IBM today doesn't even make or sell computers.
2021-06-26 13:31:27	Sauvin	o.O
2021-06-26 13:31:52	blackgatonegro	I know, then again Kodak is no longer in the camera business.
2021-06-26 13:31:58	Sauvin	blackgatonegro, I think you need to find another channel for this.
2021-06-26 13:32:03	blackgatonegro	Ok
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2021-06-26 13:32:06	kurahaupo	I note the earlier discussion about the woes of netstat, but nobody mentioned that netstat is a 30-year-old program that assumes an internet that doesn't exist any more. The idea of needing "virtual interfaces" just to allow multiple addresses is quite absurd. And netmasks as bit patterns in dotted quad notation are an abomination.
2021-06-26 13:32:07	kurahaupo	The output of netstat lies by omission: it only inspects one of the routing tables, so any policy routing is invisible to it; it ignores interface settings that don't have a "label"; it's awkward expressing prefix lengths (and sometimes it'll guess wrongly)
2021-06-26 13:32:23	Psi-Jack	blackop: Pardon? They still make and sell cameras...
2021-06-26 13:32:38	Psi-Jack	Ugh, he left.
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2021-06-26 13:32:53	babyface	in the grub boot menu how do I an OS of my chosing as the default OS ?
2021-06-26 13:32:58	Sauvin	Yeah. To take a nap, and hopefully some pills.
2021-06-26 13:33:05	Psi-Jack	Yeah.
2021-06-26 13:33:25	Psi-Jack	The kodak thing was like, what? Yes they do.. Top entry on their products.
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2021-06-26 13:33:47	blackop	wat
2021-06-26 13:33:55	blackop	Psi-Jack: i am here :p
2021-06-26 13:34:03	Psi-Jack	blackop: Not you, blackgatonegro.
2021-06-26 13:34:04	Psi-Jack	:p
2021-06-26 13:34:07	blackop	lol
2021-06-26 13:34:17	Psi-Jack	You just have a similer tab-completable name.
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2021-06-26 13:34:46	blackop	yea :p
2021-06-26 13:34:48	Sauvin	I am curious, though - IBM might've bailed in the PC market, but they DO still make big iron, don't they?
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2021-06-26 13:36:26	r9999	my firefox reaches 40GB virtual space, that's memory leaking isnt it?
2021-06-26 13:36:30	r9999	just two tabs open
2021-06-26 13:36:44	bpmedley	Sauvin : Last I looked (months ago) there were POWER workstations and servers available.
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2021-06-26 13:37:11	longxia	Sauvin: yes, I think pSeries and zSeries are still IBM made. If they still call them that.
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2021-06-26 13:37:44	bpmedley	I feel that we use IBM Mainframes at work still.
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2021-06-26 13:38:24	Psi-Jack	Sauvin: IBM Z.
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2021-06-26 13:38:33	babyface	how do I select an OS of my chosing as the default in the Grub boot menu?
2021-06-26 13:38:52	Psi-Jack	So, yes, Big Iron is still prevelant at IBM.
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2021-06-26 13:39:45	Sauvin	babyface, I've not messed with grub in so long I've forgotten how to do that. :\
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2021-06-26 13:40:11	dodecasaurus	babyface: you can set it up in your grub.conf
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2021-06-26 13:41:56	Sauvin	dodecasaurus, that used to be true with grub1; I think it's a bit more complex under grub2.
2021-06-26 13:42:09	Sauvin	I just looked at grub.d/10_linux - it's a huge honking shell script.
2021-06-26 13:42:23	jim	babyface, what dist?
2021-06-26 13:42:26	Sauvin	Grub got all honked up. :\
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2021-06-26 13:43:23	bpmedley	babyface : Do you have a "/etc/default/grub" ?
2021-06-26 13:44:18	babyface	bpmedley, sure
2021-06-26 13:44:45	bpmedley	GRUB_DEFAULT=0 <-- I think you can modify this and run "update-grub" or similar.
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2021-06-26 13:49:16	bpmedley	babyface : Did change the file and did you fix your issue?
2021-06-26 13:50:14	babyface	I'll get back to you
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2021-06-26 14:04:35	akik	what fedora does with grub is just so weird
2021-06-26 14:05:13	Sauvin	They're Fedora. What's more "weird" than normal?
2021-06-26 14:05:14	Psi-Jack	How so?
2021-06-26 14:05:38	akik	now if you look into grub.cfg it doesn't even contain all the boot entries
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2021-06-26 14:06:05	Psi-Jack	This is normal.
2021-06-26 14:06:24	akik	sure
2021-06-26 14:06:33	Psi-Jack	All major distros do this.
2021-06-26 14:06:42	akik	it doesn't make it any saner
2021-06-26 14:06:43	Psi-Jack	grub.cfg is like a sh script.
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2021-06-26 14:07:13	akik	then they disabled grub2-install on uefi systems
2021-06-26 14:07:38	akik	they have two ways to update the config, grub2-mkconfig and grubby
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2021-06-26 14:08:15	Psi-Jack	In retrospect, how often does one need to... do this?
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2021-06-26 14:08:35	Psi-Jack	It ain't like it's lilo where you have to push a stub update every change you make.
2021-06-26 14:08:43	akik	Psi-Jack: that doesn't make any difference how often you need it
2021-06-26 14:09:33	Psi-Jack	It kind of does, actually.
2021-06-26 14:09:37	akik	no
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2021-06-26 14:12:57	Psi-Jack	I mean, update-grub from Debian/Ubuntu, they just run grub-mkconfig -o for you. It's not... rocket science.
2021-06-26 14:13:04	Sauvin	When you DO need it, though, you kinda need it NOW.
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2021-06-26 14:13:33	akik	hey take that logic out :)
2021-06-26 14:14:25	Psi-Jack	And of course, Fedora has their `kernel-install` and `new-kernel-install` tool that's part of the post-install process.
2021-06-26 14:14:41	Psi-Jack	But, in reality. grub2-mkconfig -o "$(readlink -e /etc/grub2.conf)"
2021-06-26 14:14:56	Psi-Jack	Not rocket science here. :)
2021-06-26 14:15:28	Sauvin	It is if you're an idiot like me and don't really have any idea what you're doing.
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2021-06-26 14:16:31	Psi-Jack	grub2-mkconfig is one of those current Linux Basics 101 you should know. If you do not, shame on you.
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2021-06-26 14:16:48	Psi-Jack	or, learn it. It's literally that simple. :)
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2021-06-26 14:26:03	jim	is grub2-mkconfig influenced by settings in /etc/default/grub?
2021-06-26 14:26:21	 *	onelegend is thinking
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2021-06-26 14:26:40	akik	jim: it uses the settings from /etc/default/grub
2021-06-26 14:27:05	jim	ok
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2021-06-26 14:40:18	wovixo	If you're looking for a weekend diversion, I just stumbled across this: https://unixgame.io
2021-06-26 14:40:47	Psi-Jack	Too busy Surviving Mars.
2021-06-26 14:41:02	Ringtailed-Fox	please be something like fighting off leonnart poettering from porting systemd and pulseaudio to your operating system... :P
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2021-06-26 14:41:14	[[R]]	Psi-Jack: that one is too hard
2021-06-26 14:41:30	Psi-Jack	[[R]]: Not sure yet, I just finished all the tutorials, looks easy enough.
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2021-06-26 14:44:02	msiism	wovixo: Nice of Nokia… to provide yet another way for Big G and Big F to collect some user data.
2021-06-26 14:44:06	wovixo	Ringtailed-Fox: Ha! Good luck with that.
2021-06-26 14:44:19	Ringtailed-Fox	i know.... a guy can dream, though :P
2021-06-26 14:44:33	wovixo	msiism: Ugh, there is a 'guest' option as well.
2021-06-26 14:44:41	Ringtailed-Fox	i mean there *are* distros like devuan and pclinuxos that still use sysvinit and runit...
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2021-06-26 14:45:09	msiism	There are quite a few distributions not using systemd. So mayn that it's probably safe to stop caring about systemd altogether.
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2021-06-26 14:46:24	[[R]]	msiism: people will never stop complaining... what else would they do?
2021-06-26 14:46:31	msiism	Learn Ada?
2021-06-26 14:46:50	 *	msiism notices a pattern.
2021-06-26 14:46:54	[[R]]	ada lovelace is dead...
2021-06-26 14:47:09	msiism	Dennis Ritchie is dead.
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2021-06-26 14:48:21	msiism	So, what argument is that statement of fact trying to convey?
2021-06-26 14:48:23	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-06-26 14:48:51	syn-ack	I honestly don't see what the fuss with systemD is all about. I thought it was a good move that needed to be done, in order to progress Linux along
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2021-06-26 14:49:53	msiism	It's 'systemd', by the way.
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2021-06-26 14:51:03	Dagmar	syn-ack: ...and what kind of "progress" would that be?
2021-06-26 14:51:13	<--	anton (~anton@am32.org) has quit (Quit: anton)
2021-06-26 14:51:25	[[R]]	syn-ack: systemd is the devil!
2021-06-26 14:51:30	Ballerburg9005	Dagmar: typical reactionary question
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2021-06-26 14:51:43	syn-ack	Faster boot. More reliable hot plug handling
2021-06-26 14:51:49	 *	Psi-Jack pets his systemd.
2021-06-26 14:51:51	syn-ack	Just two
2021-06-26 14:52:03	Dagmar	Ballerburg9005: No, professional process analysis.
2021-06-26 14:52:14	syn-ack	I mean, I could go but then it'd just get tiring
2021-06-26 14:52:20	Psi-Jack	syn-ack: Multi-language login support.
2021-06-26 14:52:25	Psi-Jack	Better. :)
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2021-06-26 14:52:36	syn-ack	That as well
2021-06-26 14:52:37	Psi-Jack	searchable logs.
2021-06-26 14:52:43	Dagmar	syn-ack: hotplug handling was not init's problem before.  As to faster boot times, what they've done with it has resulted in the opposite of that in many cases.
2021-06-26 14:52:53	<--	ice9 (~ice9@user/ice9) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-26 14:52:55	msiism	Psi-Jack: Logs aren't normally searchable?
2021-06-26 14:52:56	Dagmar	Hotplug handling was actually just fine before.
2021-06-26 14:53:09	Psi-Jack	time synchronization, automated dns lookup when connecting to VPN and switching a subset of DNS to point to VPN-resourced domains.
2021-06-26 14:53:21	Psi-Jack	msiism: They are, but they're not as easily as what journald provides.
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2021-06-26 14:53:28	msiism	I see.
2021-06-26 14:53:45	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: Those weren't problems that had been fixed before, and they also werne't init's problem before
2021-06-26 14:53:50	Psi-Jack	systemd has done a LOT of stuff.
2021-06-26 14:53:51	[[R]]	Psi-Jack: yeah, like i said... the devil!
2021-06-26 14:53:58	Psi-Jack	systemd is not just init.
2021-06-26 14:54:02	Dagmar	Technically, that one could easily be blamed on shortcomings in NetworkManager
2021-06-26 14:54:14	rob`	I do feel systemd tries to do too much, I'd have liked it to be a little more focused.
2021-06-26 14:54:15	Psi-Jack	The more you continue to reference systemd to JUST init, the more you prove you know nothing of it. :)
2021-06-26 14:54:20	<--	antlers (~antlers@162.216.47.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-26 14:54:27	Dagmar	But if one of those forms of progress was a lack of needless root compromises, systemd is a winner
2021-06-26 14:54:29	syn-ack	I think everybody's main issue with systemd is that it was pushed by Lennart, and he's a bit of an asshole. Plain and simple
2021-06-26 14:54:31	Psi-Jack	rob`: It's multi-parted, not an all-inclusive thing of 1.
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2021-06-26 14:54:46	Dagmar	syn-ack: Straw man.
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2021-06-26 14:54:54	c705	syn-ack: no, it's because systemd tries too much to be everything
2021-06-26 14:55:05	[[R]]	c705: 🎶 cuz you're everything to me...
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2021-06-26 14:55:06	Psi-Jack	Yet, it doesn't.
2021-06-26 14:55:07	<--	rshinzon3 (~rshinzon@130.61.156.43) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-26 14:55:15	Dagmar	This was all literally built on the approach of small tools which are easily auditable which do a small task well.
2021-06-26 14:55:17	c705	i want my init system to init and then get the f out of my way
2021-06-26 14:55:22	clemens3	just heard lunduke the end of linux.. saying systemd has a million lines of code.. i checked, is more 600k.. lol
2021-06-26 14:55:22	Dagmar	Systemd is practically the polar opposite of that.
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2021-06-26 14:55:39	Psi-Jack	When have we ever had before, the ability to connect to a VPN and redirect, AUTOMATICALLY, queries to specific domains to a specific DNS server before systemd-resolved?
2021-06-26 14:55:39	clemens3	sysvinit is 12k lines
2021-06-26 14:55:39	msiism	By the way: `cd` is `cwd` on Multics. Who would have thought?
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2021-06-26 14:55:48	Dagmar	clemens3++
2021-06-26 14:55:49	Psi-Jack	I'll tell you: Never.
2021-06-26 14:55:53	clemens3	systemd 600k , and i don't know why i would need it..
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2021-06-26 14:56:00	[[R]]	clemens3: yes, but you're comparing 1 single program, withl ots of little programs
2021-06-26 14:56:14	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: I'm sure multiple people had worked that out before.
2021-06-26 14:56:31	clemens3	well, there are a million programs, did I ask for a million programs? what is systemd doing that I need?
2021-06-26 14:56:36	c705	not to mention using domains to route is generally a poor idea
2021-06-26 14:56:37	Dagmar	Overlaying DNS stubs was even generally the purview of "normal" VPN clients
2021-06-26 14:56:38	Psi-Jack	If they did, it was hacky, bad, clunky, and unreliable.
2021-06-26 14:56:41	Dagmar	er wasn't
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2021-06-26 14:56:47	Psi-Jack	That's my point.
2021-06-26 14:56:58	clemens3	they have bash completion setup and mouse.xy files and what what what..
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2021-06-26 14:57:01	 *	msiism waits for Alpine to adopt s6.
2021-06-26 14:57:02	Dagmar	In the _real world_ that's not a place to play games with stubbing DNS
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2021-06-26 14:57:13	Dagmar	If you're on a VPN the DNS server should be on the other side of the VPN.  Period.
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2021-06-26 14:57:30	Dagmar	Network access _outside_ the VPN is the subset case
2021-06-26 14:57:34	clemens3	just untared the systemd source package, gonna delete it ASAP
2021-06-26 14:57:46	[[R]]	clemens3: rofl
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2021-06-26 14:57:57	Dagmar	Getting that bit wrong is how you get advisories about "leaked DNS traffic"
2021-06-26 14:58:05	clemens3	and it's gone:)
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2021-06-26 14:58:09	syn-ack	Just to fit in, I think I'm gonna nuke LaunchD too
2021-06-26 14:58:36	--	jkl is now known as jkl1337
2021-06-26 14:58:41	syn-ack	But the binary, instead... because I'm a man, and that shit shouldn't get in the way, amirite
2021-06-26 14:58:51	msiism	clemens3: Why not instead tar it again, and then feather it?
2021-06-26 14:58:54	Dagmar	I know I never had a problem remmebering to throwin a hook to reset nscd (if it was running) when I connected to a new network
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2021-06-26 14:59:57	Dagmar	You can't really even afford to be vague or unclear about which network you're on and whether or not it's the same "view" as any other network you might be simultaneously connected to
2021-06-26 15:00:40	msiism	I mean, init scripts in sh are, maybe, not the best idea. They should better be written in rc or something similar.
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2021-06-26 15:01:28	Dagmar	msiism: I was fairly fond of the practice of having a library of common functions to call, since one could tweak and tighten up those functions so that each problem only needs to be solved once and solved well
2021-06-26 15:01:28	Linkandzelda	is it unadvised to use lvm option allow_mixed_block_sizes? im trying to add a new drive to a volume group with vgextend but turns out the drive i got is 512 sector size with the other 4096
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2021-06-26 15:01:58	msiism	Dagmar: Okay, fair.
2021-06-26 15:02:03	Dagmar	Linkandzelda: It's not generally going to affect a whole lot since everything's generally going to be using 4096 inode sizes or larger
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2021-06-26 15:02:28	Dagmar	msiism: Yeah I generally use Slackware and having to develop new start/stop code every time is a pain in the ass
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2021-06-26 15:02:51	Linkandzelda	Dagmar: so its safe to enable that option then? i shouldnt expect any problems?
2021-06-26 15:02:56	Dagmar	I know Patrick likes just cloning boilerplate, but if it's boilerplate it can be rendered as a reuseable function
2021-06-26 15:03:31	Dagmar	Linkandzelda: Nothing major should develop.  If you have a database trying to be really obsessive about flush()ing writes you might under some circumstances wind up with sub-optimal IO
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2021-06-26 15:03:46	Dagmar	...but if you're not running mysql or postgres or something over that, it ain' gon' matter
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2021-06-26 15:04:10	Linkandzelda	Dagmar: nah, just file storage. but syncthing can be pretty hammering on IO
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2021-06-26 15:04:22	Dagmar	Linkandzelda: The odds are really, really high that the drive in question really uses a cluster size of 4096, 8192, or even 32768
2021-06-26 15:04:36	Dagmar	It's just saying it has a 512 byte sector size for the purposes of compatibility
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2021-06-26 15:06:07	Dagmar	It sounds like you're using a jagged array anyway so... that sector size thing isn't really going to matter much
2021-06-26 15:06:37	Dagmar	(i.e., if you're spanning disks, it won't matter and if you're mirroring them with mismatched disks you already have a bigger minor issue)
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2021-06-26 15:15:01	Linkandzelda	Dagmar: im seeing reports that filesystems wont mount with drives spanning multiple sector sizes after being extended
2021-06-26 15:15:10	Linkandzelda	for both xfs and ext4
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2021-06-26 15:25:56	alex3	Is there a way to resize two windos exactly half a display in Windows Manager like XFCE ?
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2021-06-26 15:28:38	[[R]]	alex3: so if its off by 1 pixel, its no good?
2021-06-26 15:29:15	alex3	if it should be done by mouse it's not good
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2021-06-26 15:33:44	kfrench	[[R]]: I like your style.  Static tiling ftw.
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2021-06-26 15:46:14	msiism	alex3: Well, if xfwm, the window manager in Xfce, can do tiling, then that's surely possible.
2021-06-26 15:46:19	<--	ice9 (~ice9@user/ice9) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-26 15:46:27	msiism	But I'm pretty certain xfwm can't do that.
2021-06-26 15:46:39	msiism	You could swap out the window manager, though.
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2021-06-26 16:00:12	unix_powerbyte	hey there
2021-06-26 16:00:20	[[R]]	unix_powerbyte: you're an allstar
2021-06-26 16:00:29	<--	dodecasaurus (~colin@modemcable152.175-179-173.mc.videotron.ca) has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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2021-06-26 16:01:59	unix_powerbyte	na, just a cute girl :D
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2021-06-26 16:02:05	b0b	alex3: yes, that's possible
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2021-06-26 16:03:42	unix_powerbyte	any help with kodachi?
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2021-06-26 16:04:20	[[R]]	unix_powerbyte: you're going to have to be a little more specific...
2021-06-26 16:04:32	msiism	b0b: So, xfwm does tiling?
2021-06-26 16:04:39	unix_powerbyte	distro kodachi OS
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2021-06-26 16:06:52	nish	Is there a way I can manually specify which usb driver to use?
2021-06-26 16:07:48	nish	Dev 21, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=,  same with Dev 21, If 1, Class=CDC Data, Driver=,
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2021-06-26 16:09:37	[[R]]	nish: huh?
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2021-06-26 16:11:16	VMGuy23_	Is there a way to send a certain keypress (F1) to a background app? Cinnamon on Ubuntu
2021-06-26 16:11:23	VMGuy23_	Also, is there a way for a Wine app to create keypresses?
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2021-06-26 16:11:31	nish	It should be "Class=Wireless Driver=rndis_host" instead it doesn't use any driver
2021-06-26 16:11:59	TJ-	nish: that'll depend on a driver matching the Vendor:Product IDs, or you manually doing a 'bind'
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2021-06-26 16:14:09	nish	Ah, found this https://lwn.net/Articles/143397/ Thank you.
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2021-06-26 16:17:01	b0b	msiism: it can do windows tiling
2021-06-26 16:18:03	Henry151	hey y'all. if I use 'rsync -ruvhP source destination' , it seems to be not working as i expected.. the destination has some of the directories already, but without all the files, say only three out of ten files already exist, but the command doesn't seem to transfer the missing files
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2021-06-26 16:18:13	Henry151	any guidance on what's going wrong here?
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2021-06-26 16:18:50	akik	Henry151: wait until it's finished
2021-06-26 16:19:30	Henry151	akik: how'd you know :)
2021-06-26 16:19:56	akik	Henry151: i can see your processes
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2021-06-26 16:20:45	msiism	b0b: Okay, nice, I didn't know.
2021-06-26 16:20:49	phogg	akik: just admit that you are a wizard
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2021-06-26 16:21:39	Henry151	akik: i guess if you know my password for my apache-reverse-proxy-glances-web setup, you could notice that the glances process is still running :)
2021-06-26 16:22:03	Henry151	rsync* process is still running
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2021-06-26 16:22:37	akik	Henry151: you can add --progress option to see how it goes
2021-06-26 16:23:01	uwharrie	VMGuy23: you could take a look at xdotool and wmctl
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2021-06-26 16:23:20	Henry151	akik: i thing the -P in -ruvhP is equivalent :)
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2021-06-26 16:25:02	Henry151	akik: so, the directory i'm transferring has subdirectories, let's say /home/henry/example/a and /home/henry/example/b and /home/henry/example/c ... when the "progress display" from rsync shows it is working on /home/henry/example/c and /home/henry/example/a looks like it should be complete, rsync is still running, but /home/henry/example/a does not contain all the files that it should
2021-06-26 16:25:27	Henry151	so maybe i just have to let it finish
2021-06-26 16:25:41	akik	i wouldn't worry about it until it starts giving you errors
2021-06-26 16:26:23	Henry151	i just wanted to start working with some of the stuff from example/a while rsync is still working on example/b
2021-06-26 16:26:36	Henry151	but maybe that is why it is not seeming to be working
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2021-06-26 16:28:44	Henry151	ah
2021-06-26 16:28:52	Henry151	i think it was the -u flag screwing things up
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2021-06-26 16:33:49	b0b	msiism: yeah, it's quite nice
2021-06-26 16:34:48	<--	mbrad (~mbrad@94.14.18.180) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-26 16:34:58	Samizdat	I got zlined from irc.freenode.net for saying "irc.freenode.chat."  Are they bloddy serious?  It doesn't get that batty even here in Wokeville.
2021-06-26 16:35:02	<--	gector (~gector@173.241.175.189) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 16:35:19	akik	wokeville?
2021-06-26 16:35:20	ayecee	keep your other network drama to yourself
2021-06-26 16:35:34	Henry151	freenode is dead long live libera
2021-06-26 16:35:49	Samizdat	Take the last train to Wokesville.
2021-06-26 16:36:14	Henry151	hehe i'm listening to Last Train to Hicksville by Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks right at this moment
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2021-06-26 16:36:28	ayecee	what a cosmic coincidence!
2021-06-26 16:36:32	Henry151	howbout that
2021-06-26 16:36:40	Samizdat	aye
2021-06-26 16:36:41	ayecee	everything is connected
2021-06-26 16:38:02	Henry151	everything except me and that string of robberies
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2021-06-26 16:38:46	ayecee	despite the forensics teams' best efforts
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2021-06-26 16:41:06	Henry151	i want to recursively chmod a directory such that all the file permissions within it remain the same as they currently are, BUT all write access is disabled
2021-06-26 16:41:30	Henry151	files having varying permissions, and they all want to stay the same except, no more write access for anybody
2021-06-26 16:41:31	ayecee	what do you want to do with the directories?
2021-06-26 16:41:33	Henry151	how can i do that?
2021-06-26 16:41:41	Henry151	same thing
2021-06-26 16:41:50	ayecee	chmod -R a-w dirname
2021-06-26 16:41:51	Byteflux	chmod -R -w <dir> ?
2021-06-26 16:42:08	Henry151	what's the difference between the a-w and the -w?
2021-06-26 16:42:34	ayecee	i don't know if the -w works alone, it looks like an option
2021-06-26 16:42:36	Henry151	the a was a typo wasn't it
2021-06-26 16:42:43	ayecee	the a wasn't a typo
2021-06-26 16:43:03	Byteflux	yeah might actually need 'a' i don't know
2021-06-26 16:43:16	ayecee	manpage says if the a is left off, a is assumed
2021-06-26 16:43:21	ayecee	so i guess it does work
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2021-06-26 16:47:21	Henry151	thanks for your guidance
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2021-06-26 16:48:44	--	pacman is now known as pac-man
2021-06-26 16:48:54	b0b	no need for a
2021-06-26 16:49:06	b0b	-w work by its own
2021-06-26 16:49:14	b0b	works*
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2021-06-26 16:51:10	ayecee	thanks for the update
2021-06-26 16:51:47	b0b	i'm too slow for this :p
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2021-06-26 16:52:48	Sauvin	I'm an idiot. I forgot all about chmod and was hallucinating up all these scripts that read permissions and use bitmasks to strip out the w bits and suchlike.
2021-06-26 16:53:30	mebus	Hi! Somehow the ext partition on my software raid does not have a uuid listed in `blkid` - does someone know why and how to fix this?
2021-06-26 16:54:06	<--	Inline (~Inline@2a02:908:1252:7a80:c035:deeb:51be:5431) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-26 16:54:09	Ballerburg9005	I once dreamt I was on a date, but she asked me "what is useradd?" and I was heartbroken
2021-06-26 16:54:29	ayecee	mebus: what does it have instead
2021-06-26 16:54:52	ayecee	also what is an ext partition
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2021-06-26 16:55:40	onelegend	ayecee: an ext partition is a carefully crafted partition
2021-06-26 16:55:51	onelegend	where they referring to ext4?
2021-06-26 16:55:59	ayecee	i don't know, that's why i'm asking
2021-06-26 16:56:24	ayecee	wouldn't make much sense. there wouldn't be an ext4 partition on a software raid.
2021-06-26 16:56:43	zdragon	it's possible for a device to not have a blkid but that would be rare and unusual I think.
2021-06-26 16:57:05	ayecee	seems like mebus is too busy to work on this at the moment.
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2021-06-26 16:57:09	ayecee	we may never know.
2021-06-26 16:57:11	<--	expix (~1@amontpellier-652-1-110-246.w90-57.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #linux
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2021-06-26 16:57:27	Sauvin	Does the ext partition have a device node?
2021-06-26 16:57:28	frk	Ballerburg9005 its like sex but safer
2021-06-26 16:57:43	zdragon	try blkid -p to bypass local blkid cache file
2021-06-26 16:57:53	zdragon	hopefully your RAID isn't failing.
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2021-06-26 17:00:37	zdragon	https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/129497/difference-between-uuid-from-blkid-and-mdadm
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2021-06-26 17:08:24	mebus	ayecee: udev doesn't discover it forsome reason
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2021-06-26 17:08:29	mebus	at least not as a file system
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2021-06-26 17:09:09	ayecee	you respond 15 minutes later, tag me, and don't answer either of my questions
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2021-06-26 17:09:34	ayecee	what's your game
2021-06-26 17:09:50	<--	antlers (~antlers@162.216.47.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 17:10:41	mebus	ayecee: sorry, didn't expect anyone would respond so quickly
2021-06-26 17:10:59	mebus	ayecee: https://pastebin.com/pDjCw1dP - there are some attributes missing in UDEV. why?
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2021-06-26 17:11:18	ayecee	still didn't answer either question
2021-06-26 17:11:29	mebus	ID_FS_USAGE=filesystem is missing.
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2021-06-26 17:12:00	ayecee	what should it be
2021-06-26 17:12:06	mebus	ayecee: `blkid /dev/md2` returns nothing
2021-06-26 17:12:11	ayecee	what should it return
2021-06-26 17:12:17	mebus	mount /dev/md2 /mnt/blubb works
2021-06-26 17:12:25	mebus	ayecee: a UUID ?
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2021-06-26 17:13:34	ayecee	what's the output from "file -s /dev/md2"
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2021-06-26 17:14:00	mebus	/dev/md2: Linux rev 1.0 ext4 filesystem data, UUID=cf94cd10-8796-4196-aa5c-0fb3b420e13f (extents) (64bit) (large files) (huge files)
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2021-06-26 17:14:12	ayecee	okay, what's the output of "file -s /dev/md1" for comparison
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2021-06-26 17:14:50	mebus	/dev/md1: Linux rev 1.0 ext3 filesystem data, UUID=06b76146-57a0-482b-993b-6c2849b990d5 (large files)
2021-06-26 17:15:08	mebus	mount: /mnt/blubb: can't find UUID=cf94cd10-8796-4196-aa5c-0fb3b420e13f.
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2021-06-26 17:15:37	ayecee	have you rebooted since first noticing the problem
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2021-06-26 17:16:42	mebus	it doesn't boot because it's a system partition
2021-06-26 17:16:47	mebus	so I rebootet a rescue linux
2021-06-26 17:17:24	mebus	"uffer I/O error on dev md2, logical block 26214384, async page read"
2021-06-26 17:17:26	mebus	hm
2021-06-26 17:17:31	ayecee	that sounds bad
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2021-06-26 17:19:17	mebus	I resized the software raid
2021-06-26 17:19:22	mebus	maybe sth. is wrong with it?
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2021-06-26 17:19:44	Sauvin	That would be "something", not "sth" (sth, in DBI, is a statement handle)
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2021-06-26 17:19:58	ayecee	how did you resize it?
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2021-06-26 17:21:35	ayecee	if you resized the partitions without resizing the raid, that could do this
2021-06-26 17:22:14	ayecee	if you resized the raid before resizing the filesystem, that could also do this
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2021-06-26 17:26:01	mebus	think I need to tell the raid that the underlying partitions have got a differenz size
2021-06-26 17:26:25	ayecee	that is something you normally have to do before resizing the partitions
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2021-06-26 17:27:05	ayecee	also you'll need to resize the filesystem before you do that
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2021-06-26 17:27:27	ayecee	can you revert the partitions to their original size, or have you already reused that space?
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2021-06-26 17:31:12	HumbleGuy	For some reason picom renders gray background, any idea what is the cause? using dwm + gentoo
2021-06-26 17:31:34	HumbleGuy	was thinking about hsetroot -solid #00000 but thats just avoiding the problem
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2021-06-26 17:31:42	ayecee	what should it be instead
2021-06-26 17:31:46	HumbleGuy	black
2021-06-26 17:32:02	HumbleGuy	or at least this is how i undertand blank
2021-06-26 17:32:10	HumbleGuy	later i will add an wallpapaer
2021-06-26 17:32:13	HumbleGuy	wallpaper
2021-06-26 17:32:20	akik	rebecca blank
2021-06-26 17:32:31	HumbleGuy	actually how do i add a wallpapaer in dwm?
2021-06-26 17:33:05	ayecee	as far as i can tell, this is normal for picom
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2021-06-26 17:33:22	ayecee	it's normal for X servers in general
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2021-06-26 17:35:44	ayecee	that is to say, an X server defaults to grey, and picom doesn't seem to change it by default
2021-06-26 17:36:00	Kyv	setting bg root window color with xsetroot is incompatible with picom
2021-06-26 17:36:09	Kyv	use hsetroot for that
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2021-06-26 17:36:28	ayecee	reading fail
2021-06-26 17:36:39	Kyv	hsetroot can add images, otherwise use feh
2021-06-26 17:36:56	HumbleGuy	Kyv, how do i make it permamently? it resets at boot
2021-06-26 17:37:04	Kyv	put it in startup script
2021-06-26 17:37:21	Kyv	the command to set the pape using whatever you choose
2021-06-26 17:38:25	HumbleGuy	can i implement it in dwm?
2021-06-26 17:38:26	Kyv	using hsetroot is not avoiding the problem. its a good minimal purpose-built tool that provides nothing more.
2021-06-26 17:39:03	Kyv	HumbleGuy: how do you mean?
2021-06-26 17:39:08	HumbleGuy	i tried ,xinitrc but it didnt work
2021-06-26 17:39:18	HumbleGuy	so maybe make dwm start hsetroot
2021-06-26 17:39:48	Kyv	Does the command work when you use it in a terminal?
2021-06-26 17:39:53	HumbleGuy	yes
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2021-06-26 17:40:04	Kyv	Where is this command placed in your ~/.xinitrc? On what line?
2021-06-26 17:40:18	HumbleGuy	after exec dwm
2021-06-26 17:40:22	Kyv	put it before
2021-06-26 17:40:27	HumbleGuy	oh
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2021-06-26 17:40:46	Kyv	and if you use a while loop, put it before that too
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2021-06-26 17:42:06	HumbleGuy	Kyv, Thanks it worked
2021-06-26 17:42:24	Kyv	welcome
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2021-06-26 17:44:54	Kyv	picom is what is overriding the root window color to gray by default
2021-06-26 17:45:07	Kyv	there isnt any underlying problem, by the way
2021-06-26 17:45:15	Psi-Jack	Well well... Amazon did manage to deliver same-day, with that HDD I ordered. :)
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2021-06-26 17:48:15	ayecee	Kyv: what color is it without picom?
2021-06-26 17:48:29	Kyv	black
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2021-06-26 17:48:38	ayecee	huh.
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2021-06-26 18:08:15	lumo_e	hello
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2021-06-26 18:08:40	lumo_e	my laptop keyboard works on gnome/wayland, but doesn't work on gnome/Xorg anymore
2021-06-26 18:08:59	lumo_e	it's quite messy because I can't see what's going on without typing in a terminal
2021-06-26 18:09:11	lumo_e	anyone can suggest a way to debug this?
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2021-06-26 18:09:44	lumo_e	I have an online exam in a couple of days, and I need screenshare, so being able to use Xorg is pretty urgent to me
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2021-06-26 18:10:59	MrElendig	lumo_e: obs works with wayland
2021-06-26 18:11:13	lumo_e	mmh
2021-06-26 18:11:14	MrElendig	also more info needed
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2021-06-26 18:11:27	neshpion	yayland
2021-06-26 18:11:27	lumo_e	suggesting a virtual camera? I didn't think about that
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2021-06-26 18:11:44	lumo_e	MrElendig: ubuntu 21.10 with its stock kernel
2021-06-26 18:11:53	lumo_e	the laptop is a lenovo l390 yoga
2021-06-26 18:11:59	MrElendig	please give me access to your time macine
2021-06-26 18:12:01	MrElendig	machine*
2021-06-26 18:12:28	lumo_e	what other info would you need?
2021-06-26 18:12:30	mebus	ayecee: fixed it by resizing the raid with mdamd and readding the disks
2021-06-26 18:12:37	MrElendig	for the keyboard, check libinput
2021-06-26 18:12:41	mebus	/ readding the raid members
2021-06-26 18:12:48	mebus	underlying partitions were to small
2021-06-26 18:13:09	Kyv	god forbid an Xorg.0.log
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2021-06-26 18:13:20	MrElendig	you could "aquire" a usb keyboard or use ssh while debugging
2021-06-26 18:14:41	MrElendig	lumo_e: some browsers supports screensharing with wayland/pipewire too now
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2021-06-26 18:15:11	lumo_e	I don't think ubuntu's pipewire is updated enough for that but I should try...
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2021-06-26 18:15:19	MrElendig	lumo_e: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire#WebRTC_screen_sharing
2021-06-26 18:15:51	lumo_e	i would like to have Xorg working, I don't want a pipewire ppa crashing while I show my shitty matlab work
2021-06-26 18:16:07	MrElendig	in my experience it works best under gnome, with wlroots being useable too, and kde being a clusterfornication as usual
2021-06-26 18:16:07	neshpion	jitsi makes screen sharing pretty braindead easy
2021-06-26 18:16:31	MrElendig	neshpion: only if the browser can actually read the screen :)
2021-06-26 18:16:36	lumo_e	jitsi is out of question unfortunately
2021-06-26 18:16:55	lumo_e	the uni spent who knows how much to the ms
2021-06-26 18:17:04	lumo_e	every course and exam is done though teams
2021-06-26 18:17:08	MrElendig	obs workaround generally works for things like zoom/teams/etc
2021-06-26 18:17:23	lumo_e	maybe the most painless workaround is the obs virtual camera
2021-06-26 18:17:38	MrElendig	unless they *require* screen sharing instead of virtual webcam due to "cheat prevention" or something
2021-06-26 18:18:09	MrElendig	sidenote: this is why you should have a fallback
2021-06-26 18:18:19	MrElendig	+for any critical setup
2021-06-26 18:18:21	lumo_e	my failback is windows
2021-06-26 18:18:23	lumo_e	but
2021-06-26 18:18:35	lumo_e	I left too little space in that partition to install matlab even there
2021-06-26 18:18:40	lumo_e	jesus I hate teams and matlab
2021-06-26 18:18:47	lumo_e	let my vent this out
2021-06-26 18:19:01	MrElendig	not only software issues, but hw ones too
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2021-06-26 18:19:21	lumo_e	in a ideal world, yes
2021-06-26 18:19:36	lumo_e	in a money constrained student world, lol
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2021-06-26 18:20:00	MrElendig	for teams: https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/23063
2021-06-26 18:20:04	MrElendig	kinda fixed now
2021-06-26 18:20:05	lumo_e	let's see, the Xorg log looks unimpressive to me but I should give another try
2021-06-26 18:20:17	lumo_e	MrElendig: eh, have been tracking that issue for month
2021-06-26 18:20:25	MrElendig	libinput is generally more useful for debugging keyboards
2021-06-26 18:20:33	lumo_e	unfortunately microsoft uses an old ass electron version with a montain of patches above
2021-06-26 18:21:11	lumo_e	and yes, the screen sharing patches are not among those patches...
2021-06-26 18:21:17	lumo_e	it's really sad
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2021-06-26 18:21:44	lumo_e	MrElendig: without typing in a terminal I can't even do a libinput run to see what's happening
2021-06-26 18:21:55	lumo_e	I come close by typing on the on screen keyboard
2021-06-26 18:21:59	MrElendig	as I said, "aquire" a usb keyboard or use ssh
2021-06-26 18:22:05	MrElendig	or that
2021-06-26 18:22:18	lumo_e	but the on screen keyboard enter doesn't look like a real enter to terminal emulators
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2021-06-26 18:22:20	Kyv	It will tell you whether libinput module is loaded and whether it is being used, for what and if it suddenly becomes senile.
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2021-06-26 18:22:34	lumo_e	ok
2021-06-26 18:22:36	lumo_e	let's see
2021-06-26 18:22:40	Kyv	That's a start.
2021-06-26 18:22:56	MrElendig	osd keyboard enter should work fine in any modern TE
2021-06-26 18:23:23	MrElendig	and if it has ctrl, then you could C-m
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2021-06-26 18:27:04	lumo_e	Kyv: https://pastebin.com/YQZdiTBf
2021-06-26 18:27:17	lumo_e	 /dev/input/event3 is my keyboard
2021-06-26 18:27:36	lumo_e	those are the relevant lines in the Xorg.0.log
2021-06-26 18:27:46	lumo_e	looks ok to me :/
2021-06-26 18:28:38	lumo_e	well actually...
2021-06-26 18:28:48	lumo_e	why is it removed and then reattached via XINPUT
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2021-06-26 18:28:54	lumo_e	that is weird
2021-06-26 18:29:11	Kyv	Yeah that is suspect.
2021-06-26 18:29:38	lumo_e	i should try to force it to libinput
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2021-06-26 18:30:00	Kyv	I mean otherwise it is not as though it is throwing errors, just default behavior.
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2021-06-26 18:31:06	lumo_e	yeah, there is no other mention of anything happening to the keyboard
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2021-06-26 18:31:18	lumo_e	except when X11 shuts down and detaches the keyboard
2021-06-26 18:31:21	lumo_e	weird
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2021-06-26 18:32:17	Kyv	Specifically setting a device section xorg.conf or xorg.conf.d may get you somewhere.
2021-06-26 18:33:29	Kyv	or input class section, rather
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2021-06-26 18:36:39	lumo_e	I did another try
2021-06-26 18:36:52	lumo_e	apparently touchpad works, but click does not
2021-06-26 18:37:11	lumo_e	I forgot I had a touch screen, had to power cycle to reboot
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2021-06-26 18:37:41	lumo_e	kyr: writing Xorg config files with no clue like when I was a young boy lol
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2021-06-26 18:38:46	Kyv	lumo_e: these days the X configuration doesnt need to be mucked with all that much.
2021-06-26 18:38:55	lumo_e	indeed
2021-06-26 18:38:55	Kyv	if it does in this case it should only be a few lines.
2021-06-26 18:39:04	Kyv	nothing added extra
2021-06-26 18:39:40	Sauvin	The only time I've ever mucked with an x config was when I had to dink with a reluctant touchpad, and it's been years.
2021-06-26 18:40:26	riff-IRC	heh
2021-06-26 18:40:43	Kyv	lumo_e: I would look over the libinput entry on ArchWiki
2021-06-26 18:40:48	Kyv	if you havent already
2021-06-26 18:41:05	riff-IRC	only time I've ever dinked with an X config is blowing away the display config when I set an out-of-tolerance display resolution
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2021-06-26 18:41:35	riff-IRC	thankfully that should seriously start becoming a thing of the past after Xfce4 FINALLY added a confirmation dialog
2021-06-26 18:42:09	Kyv	nvidia has made me do it
2021-06-26 18:42:23	riff-IRC	s/nvidia/novideo
2021-06-26 18:42:26	riff-IRC	ftfy
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2021-06-26 18:43:12	 *	MrElendig has nvidia, intel, ati and amd gfx cards and nvidia have been by far the least troublesome
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2021-06-26 18:43:46	onelegend	GeForce processors support wayland now no?
2021-06-26 18:43:51	onelegend	*coprocessors
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2021-06-26 18:44:24	lumo_e	Kyv: thanks, I'll try overriding the keyboard drivers with a few combinations to see what happens
2021-06-26 18:44:40	lumo_e	look like it IS using libinput right now, maybe I should try another one first
2021-06-26 18:45:02	Kyv	specifically I had only set DPI, ForceFullCompositionPipeline, and associated options, and disabled attempts to connect to acpid just to spiff up the log a little.
2021-06-26 18:45:04	MrElendig	latest beta driver improved wayland on nvidia slightly, but it still sucks
2021-06-26 18:45:18	onelegend	sucks interms of configurability or performance/
2021-06-26 18:45:29	Kyv	wasnt anything particularly bad about it
2021-06-26 18:45:46	MrElendig	isn't really anything to configure, but sucks in regards to performance and support, since nvidia are still doing their own thing
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2021-06-26 18:47:59	Kyv	the hour is getting late re: nvidia drivers and kepler cards
2021-06-26 18:48:10	Kyv	dont intend on buying another after this one
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2021-06-26 18:48:50	riff-IRC	I've got an RX580 8GB in my main computer and a GeForce 745M in this system (main laptop)
2021-06-26 18:48:52	MrElendig	unless amd comes up with an actual good rt and dlss competitior, nvidia will always have a giant upper edge
2021-06-26 18:48:53	riff-IRC	Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: Debian 11.0 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4500U CPU @ 1.80GHz (2.20GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.1 GiB Total (3.0 GiB Free) Swap: 7.3 GiB Total (7.3 GiB Free) • Storage: 78.9 GB / 952.6 GB (873.7 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation Haswell-ULT Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation Haswell-ULT DRAM Controller • Uptime: 5h 34m 49s
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2021-06-26 18:49:12	MrElendig	with intel being the joker
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2021-06-26 18:49:31	Sauvin	riff-IRC, kindly don't do that.
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2021-06-26 18:49:55	Psi-Jack	And why on earth do you have 7.3GB Swap?!?
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2021-06-26 18:50:12	scara	6.9TB swap gang?
2021-06-26 18:50:26	Sauvin	If it's a laptop maybe he likes to sleep.
2021-06-26 18:50:30	gNarli	why does the linux daemon encrypt all the firmware
2021-06-26 18:50:33	MrElendig	fideltyfx is not at all a dlss competitor, no matter what amd clainms
2021-06-26 18:50:35	MrElendig	claims*
2021-06-26 18:50:44	MrElendig	competitor/alternative
2021-06-26 18:50:47	riff-IRC	Sauvin: ok
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2021-06-26 18:50:54	gNarli	When will vim stop being used as a hacking tool... till emacs replaces it complelty?
2021-06-26 18:50:57	MrElendig	gNarli: what "linux daemon"
2021-06-26 18:51:03	riff-IRC	Psi-Jack: 8GB RAM, similar amount of swap
2021-06-26 18:51:05	MrElendig	oh, its just a troll
2021-06-26 18:51:20	Sauvin	gNarli, text editors are a matter of personal preference, or even affinity.
2021-06-26 18:51:24	riff-IRC	/ignore gNarli
2021-06-26 18:51:26	gNarli	go into your system monitor
2021-06-26 18:51:29	Psi-Jack	riff-IRC: Yes. This logic is horrible to follow, based on dated idealogy that is mostly irrelevant.
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2021-06-26 18:52:20	lumo_e	more than rt/dlss, compute is the real deal breaker
2021-06-26 18:52:27	gNarli	yes but why is it have a telnet emedded in it (est 2005\7)
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2021-06-26 18:52:43	lumo_e	CUDA has monopolized the compute space, both in academia and industry
2021-06-26 18:53:00	gNarli	Cuda formerly known as Cobra?
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2021-06-26 18:53:07	gNarli	the NSA of linux?
2021-06-26 18:53:10	MrElendig	lumo_e: I was mostly talking about consumer market, intel do have a real alternative to cuda
2021-06-26 18:53:18	MrElendig	but not many use it (yet)
2021-06-26 18:53:24	onelegend	I use OpenCL
2021-06-26 18:53:39	onelegend	runs across multiple GPUs, makes porting a lot easier
2021-06-26 18:53:43	lumo_e	yes, it will be interesting to see if oneAPI pans out
2021-06-26 18:53:57	lumo_e	AMD has a similar thing as well
2021-06-26 18:53:59	gNarli	snap suckss
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2021-06-26 18:54:03	lumo_e	but it isn't that good AFAIK
2021-06-26 18:54:09	--	Gustavo6046|bloo is now known as Gustavo6046|oops
2021-06-26 18:54:09	MrElendig	onelegend: except that it takes 5x as much effort to get it up and working in the first place, and then you realise that it isn't actually portable anyway
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2021-06-26 18:54:38	MrElendig	also if you have a rx5xxx card... :p
2021-06-26 18:54:44	gNarli	because i make glitches tht bug up vim hacking
2021-06-26 18:55:39	lumo_e	Kyv: I tried overriding the driver used by the keyboard
2021-06-26 18:55:58	lumo_e	but Xorg still picks libinput from udev
2021-06-26 18:56:02	lumo_e	what the hell
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2021-06-26 18:56:27	lumo_e	i put a .conf file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
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2021-06-26 18:56:33	lumo_e	let's see if I can tell udev what to do
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2021-06-26 18:58:27	gNarli	an when will the locale_ xml parsers be removed... so that accessable tools, like screen readers will work
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2021-06-26 19:06:22	Kyv	lumo_e: what is the output when you search installed packages including 'libinput'?
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2021-06-26 19:07:44	Gustavo6046	we all know telnet is just tcp with the nice boobs surgically removed
2021-06-26 19:07:50	Gustavo6046	with nc/ncat i can ctrl+c. where is that in telnet?
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2021-06-26 19:07:57	Gustavo6046	then again that's a client issue
2021-06-26 19:07:59	Gustavo6046	not a protoclo one
2021-06-26 19:08:01	Gustavo6046	ah whatever
2021-06-26 19:08:07	Kyv	I would think Ubuntu would ship with every driver under the sun, but I also wouldnt put it past them to delibreately 'disfavor' Xorg in some way.
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2021-06-26 19:08:21	Kyv	deliberately
2021-06-26 19:08:24	bpmedley	Gustavo6046 : For telnet use ^{
2021-06-26 19:08:28	bpmedley	Gustavo6046 : For telnet use ^[ rather
2021-06-26 19:08:32	Gustavo6046	ctrl-bracket?
2021-06-26 19:08:34	Gustavo6046	oh
2021-06-26 19:08:37	Gustavo6046	okay
2021-06-26 19:08:40	bpmedley	Gustavo6046 : That's what I use
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2021-06-26 19:08:52	Gustavo6046	I was confused for a second because I'm used to people talking about keys/keystrokes in US layout when I use BR layout
2021-06-26 19:09:01	Gustavo6046	but that is pretty seamless in this instance
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2021-06-26 19:09:55	Gustavo6046	like, how in games you'd hit tilde to open the console, except the tilde key in BR keyboards is a diacritic dead-key to the right of ç (in turn to the right of l) and you instead have to press the '/" (single quote) key in the top-left corner of the keyboard to the left of 1, the same place where the tilde would be in a US keyboard?
2021-06-26 19:10:04	Gustavo6046	uh but anyways, thank you!
2021-06-26 19:10:09	Gustavo6046	sorry for the little tangent
2021-06-26 19:10:17	Gustavo6046	I'm known for those :p
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2021-06-26 19:16:23	silux	Hello :)
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2021-06-26 19:17:38	lumo_e	Kyv: I do have xserver-xorg-input-libinput
2021-06-26 19:17:44	lumo_e	let's see what I do not have..
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2021-06-26 19:18:06	akoana	Gustavo6046: hmm, here the escape character for telnet is   ^]   not  ^[
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2021-06-26 19:18:31	Sauvin	Same here.
2021-06-26 19:18:49	gNarli	hmm
2021-06-26 19:18:50	akoana	and telnet displays "Escape character is '^]'." after connect
2021-06-26 19:19:03	lumo_e	Kyv: https://pastebin.com/ktede5sk
2021-06-26 19:19:03	MrElendig	escape character over telnet may vary depending on server, many will tell you
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2021-06-26 19:19:34	MrElendig	(some might lie *coughCISCOcough*)
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2021-06-26 19:19:53	Sauvin	You're sure it's the server and not the client?
2021-06-26 19:19:54	akoana	well in my case it was a local exim server i telnetted to
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2021-06-26 19:21:47	akoana	and for  nc -l localhost 1234  and telnet localhost 1234  it's still ^] ...
2021-06-26 19:21:56	bpmedley	Looks like I typed the opposite bracket and got booted out of the network session and did not go into the telnet prompt.
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2021-06-26 19:24:35	akoana	if you start just telnet and then enter "display escape" you'll see the value
2021-06-26 19:24:35	silux	Hey, may I ask what telnet is still being used for nowadays? I've read about it in an old book from 1989 so it must be rather old...
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2021-06-26 19:25:19	MrElendig	silux: it is misused for configuration of network devices all the time
2021-06-26 19:25:29	bpmedley	silux : I use it to manually test HTTP 1.1 requests and few other things.
2021-06-26 19:25:29	MrElendig	and similar
2021-06-26 19:25:44	danieldg	silux: anything that isn't big enough to run sshd, really
2021-06-26 19:25:57	danieldg	microcontrollers and so forth
2021-06-26 19:26:18	MrElendig	danieldg: lots of things that are big enough to run sshd but doesn't because "legacy" and "this is how we always have done it" and "iot"
2021-06-26 19:26:55	silux	Oh, Okay. Cool! So it's used because of it being to simplistic and small.
2021-06-26 19:27:06	MrElendig	still lots of fun devices fully open over telnet out there on the internet today
2021-06-26 19:27:20	MrElendig	including power plants, train routing systems and other fun things
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2021-06-26 19:28:48	Kyv	silux: telnet mapscii.me
2021-06-26 19:28:48	<--	rewrit3 (~rewrit3@user/rewrit3) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-26 19:28:49	Kyv	:|
2021-06-26 19:29:02	MrElendig	and there is deep ascii
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2021-06-26 19:30:18	silux	Kyv: That's cool!
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2021-06-26 19:30:32	silux	How do I zoom? Is there any kind of help page?
2021-06-26 19:30:38	<--	kimahri (~ev@user/kimahri) has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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2021-06-26 19:31:45	Kyv	mousewheel can do the job
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2021-06-26 19:32:09	Kyv	you can drag the map around too
2021-06-26 19:32:16	silux	Is it possible to zoom without the mouse as well?
2021-06-26 19:32:17	Kyv	sadly I dont know the keys
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2021-06-26 19:32:31	silux	Oh, alright! I'm sure I'll figure it out
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2021-06-26 19:35:35	silux	Is telnet similar to ssh?
2021-06-26 19:35:44	MrElendig	not at all
2021-06-26 19:35:46	Kyv	its not secure
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2021-06-26 19:36:23	MrElendig	telnet is basically just sending raw data over a socket and not much else
2021-06-26 19:36:27	Sauvin	Define "similarity". The transmission is different, but what you see on the screen is very similar.
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2021-06-26 19:36:45	bpmedley	silux : Only in the concept of connecting to a remote server with a text user interface.  However, as has specified, ssh is encrypted and has more features.  Telnet should, in almost every scenario, not be used for directly connecting to a server.
2021-06-26 19:36:46	silux	ssh connects to a shell on a remote computer, while telnet opens some kind of program on the other computer, right?
2021-06-26 19:36:47	mesaboogie	silux: if you are in a terminal in X then use shift+ctrl++
2021-06-26 19:36:57	phogg	silux: no and no (or yes and yes)
2021-06-26 19:37:00	bpmedley	*connecting to a server and establishing a login shell.
2021-06-26 19:37:03	phogg	silux: they both do both things
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2021-06-26 19:37:12	MrElendig	silux: ssh can run anything on the remote, doesn't have to be a shell
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2021-06-26 19:37:37	MrElendig	it's not that uncommon to have a custom "endpoint" for ssh
2021-06-26 19:37:41	phogg	telnet can be used as a web browser (over port 80 only); it doesn't have to be used for a shell
2021-06-26 19:37:52	silux	Yeah, right. I saw it being used for transimitting data securely as well
2021-06-26 19:38:13	gNarli	i know i made some hardware repair place rich
2021-06-26 19:38:21	MrElendig	ssh also supports things like port forwarding etc
2021-06-26 19:38:32	gNarli	with the hyrogliffs i embeded in some markmonitor clouds
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2021-06-26 19:39:09	silux	Okay, Thanks! Is it possible to access Wikipedia via telnet?
2021-06-26 19:39:21	MrElendig	kinda
2021-06-26 19:39:22	gNarli	dont forget to Backup!
2021-06-26 19:39:32	sacioz	hi all
2021-06-26 19:39:34	bpmedley	silux : You can initiiate a GET request to Wikipedia via telnet.
2021-06-26 19:39:38	MrElendig	note: more and more websites will be gzip only going forwards
2021-06-26 19:39:47	silux	Hello sacioz
2021-06-26 19:39:51	MrElendig	so you would have to uncompress whatever you recieve
2021-06-26 19:39:58	sacioz	just stickybeaking a bit ...hope you don't mind
2021-06-26 19:40:06	silux	Oh, Okay.
2021-06-26 19:40:20	sacioz	ta
2021-06-26 19:40:21	MrElendig	woudln't be surprised if someone made an expansion rfc for http to do zstd too
2021-06-26 19:40:30	Kyv	if ya want to access wikipedia, just use gopher!
2021-06-26 19:40:30	tusko	interviews are like confessions get the fkuc up out my dressing room confusing me with questions
2021-06-26 19:41:38	gNarli	so does this internship pays next month??
2021-06-26 19:42:06	phogg	wikipedia doesn't seem to like replying to port 80 telnet. Google still does, though. This kind of thing will become less common over time
2021-06-26 19:42:29	MrElendig	sane websites does 301 to 443
2021-06-26 19:42:45	phogg	I just get connection close on the remote side
2021-06-26 19:42:47	tusko	people still use telnet?
2021-06-26 19:42:52	phogg	probably because I am not sending enough headers
2021-06-26 19:43:09	Kyv	someone just used it in this very channel minutes ago.
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2021-06-26 19:43:14	tusko	I was always taught that one of the first things you do is disable telnet
2021-06-26 19:43:15	Kyv	but I did not have my camera
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2021-06-26 19:43:34	Sauvin	tusko, the advice to disable telnet is sound.
2021-06-26 19:43:40	silux	I've found a nice program named wikicurses
2021-06-26 19:43:41	tusko	otherwise jim will be in your system vv quickly
2021-06-26 19:43:42	MrElendig	and then people are going to suggest socat instead of telnet  https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/02/crypto-flaw-was-so-glaring-it-may-be-intentional-eavesdropping-backdoor/
2021-06-26 19:43:48	phogg	tusko: telnet is a great low-level diagnostic tool
2021-06-26 19:44:09	MrElendig	less so now when anything sane is encrypted
2021-06-26 19:44:13	phogg	tusko: simple but effective. Of course netcat would usually be better, but lots of places ban it.
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2021-06-26 19:45:06	silux	phogg: Why would Netcat be banned?
2021-06-26 19:45:15	phogg	silux: "hacking tool"
2021-06-26 19:45:29	phogg	silux: some ban telnet for the same reason, or because it's insecure (confusing it with telnetd)
2021-06-26 19:45:30	silux	phogg: Sounds dumb
2021-06-26 19:45:37	phogg	silux: there is a lot of dumb in the world
2021-06-26 19:45:37	bpmedley	silux : https://termbin.com/zcg1
2021-06-26 19:45:53	Dagmar	It's always good to see someone who doesn't have a clue making policy decisions about security.
2021-06-26 19:46:02	Dagmar	More money for me.  :)
2021-06-26 19:46:45	Dagmar	I did have a bit of a brain fart when I got it back.
2021-06-26 19:46:45	phogg	Dagmar: I talked to someone a couple months ago who swore up and down that there was a giant vulnerability in all flash files which caused them to blow up without warning in January.
2021-06-26 19:46:49	Dagmar	@#$@# worng channel
2021-06-26 19:47:13	silux	Happens
2021-06-26 19:47:18	Dagmar	phogg: Sounds like they learned something third hand from someone who overheard someone else talking about a Yahoo News article
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2021-06-26 19:47:51	Dagmar	There was at least one state department (not this state) still using a Flash interface for stuff.
2021-06-26 19:47:52	phogg	Dagmar: except this person was in a policy position and declared flash forbidden due to that, and yelled at me for daring to say otherwise
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2021-06-26 19:48:19	Dagmar	phogg: I would have told them "You're wrong, but I'm totally with you on banning Flash."
2021-06-26 19:48:28	bpmedley	silux : Do you see how that worked?
2021-06-26 19:48:35	phogg	Dagmar: there are lots of places still using flash. I work on one, or rather I do maintenance on one while writing its replacement. The debate was over how bad it was to leave the .swf file there.
2021-06-26 19:48:38	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has left #linux
2021-06-26 19:48:43	blackgatonegro	Wanna bet they are gonna delay getting Windows 11 just to keep using Internet Explorer?
2021-06-26 19:48:45	Dagmar	We kinda firmly planted our feet on that particular hill at the office.
2021-06-26 19:48:51	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@153.sub-97-43-192.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 19:48:54	Dagmar	"But what if the vendor demands we use Flash?"
2021-06-26 19:48:57	phogg	Dagmar: I said basically that, with also a "but we just can't drop this file and break everything for everyone"
2021-06-26 19:48:58	Dagmar	"We find a new vendor."
2021-06-26 19:49:07	-->	CodeSpelunker (~CodeSpelu@user/codespelunker) has joined #linux
2021-06-26 19:49:17	silux	bpmedley: What do you mean?
2021-06-26 19:49:19	blackgatonegro	"Tell the vendor that we got a better offer."
2021-06-26 19:49:26	bpmedley	silux : The termbin I gave you..
2021-06-26 19:49:31	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Considering the rather hilarious requirements they have at the moment... I don't think that's going to be a problem for a couple years.
2021-06-26 19:49:37	phogg	blackgatonegro: I think very few places will need to do that. The writing has been on the wall for IE for far longer than Flash
2021-06-26 19:49:38	Dagmar	I mean... TPM 2.0?  Seriously?
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2021-06-26 19:49:44	tusko	every morning I wake up and throw a gang sign
2021-06-26 19:49:52	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-26 19:49:55	MrElendig	Dagmar: will work with most ftpm implementations
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2021-06-26 19:50:20	MrElendig	which a lot of people are using already for bitlocker anyway
2021-06-26 19:50:24	blackgatonegro	 Dagmar I bet you a non existent dollar the Enterprise version of 11 will install with less trouble
2021-06-26 19:50:26	Dagmar	I can understand TPM because of Bitlocker, but the Dell "soft" TPM is pretty dubious
2021-06-26 19:50:27	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-26 19:50:31	Dagmar	TPM 2.0 is another animal entirely
2021-06-26 19:50:36	blackgatonegro	Because thats the version they charge money for
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2021-06-26 19:50:37	silux	bpmedley: Oh, give me a second. I had to figure out how to get it... Let me see how I can access the chat history here...
2021-06-26 19:50:49	MrElendig	Dagmar: apparently current build also works with 1.2
2021-06-26 19:50:51	Dagmar	We have relatively new equipment and exactly none of it has that yet
2021-06-26 19:51:16	Dagmar	MrElendig: So I'm guessing their requirements for the beta weren't quite in line with the stated reqs
2021-06-26 19:51:18	akik	my 2015 acer has tpm 2.0
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2021-06-26 19:51:39	blackgatonegro	Well any decent equipment from 2020 and up should be able to get w11 after firmware updates...
2021-06-26 19:51:54	blackgatonegro	When those firmware updates become avaliable
2021-06-26 19:52:00	phogg	s/When/If/
2021-06-26 19:52:01	MrElendig	lack of tpm2 is mostly an amd thing
2021-06-26 19:52:04	Dagmar	Well, if they want to actually _sell_ copies of it let's hope so for their sake
2021-06-26 19:52:23	Dagmar	Well, we've got a lot of Intel laptops...
2021-06-26 19:52:33	MrElendig	they are giving away 11 for free
2021-06-26 19:52:53	Dagmar	The TPM modules are kind of a sore point because even the soft-TPM modules are prone to occasionally fouling up and then the user is just locked out
2021-06-26 19:52:53	blackgatonegro	Yeah just like enterprise w10 is less annoyting, enterprise 11 will probably install anyway, after a few nag screens
2021-06-26 19:53:03	blackgatonegro	Cause money
2021-06-26 19:53:14	Dagmar	Also it's SUPER FUN to read someone a bitlocker code over the phone when they have a terrible phone
2021-06-26 19:53:16	silux	bpmedley: Oh, yeah! I did that before using netcat.
2021-06-26 19:53:19	akik	https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2020/08/04/microsoft-direct-operations-products-and-packaging-to-be-zero-waste-by-2030/
2021-06-26 19:53:28	phogg	MrElendig: surprising. I thought the idea was that 10 would be the last version and everything would be a free downloadable upgrade after that. The only reason to do an 11 in my mind would be to be able to charge for it.
2021-06-26 19:53:39	Dagmar	phogg: I thought the same thing
2021-06-26 19:53:52	Dagmar	Like, W10 isn't a liability bomb waiting to go off like 8 was
2021-06-26 19:54:01	bpmedley	silux : Yes, they are similar.  Except with telnet you can type interactively.  I don't know if netcat has an interactive mode.
2021-06-26 19:54:10	Sauvin	How was Windows 8 a "liability bomb"?
2021-06-26 19:54:11	Dagmar	...and W7 was just a world-consuming malware event waiting to happen
2021-06-26 19:54:13	MrElendig	phogg: they want to do some massive security changes which breaks backwards compability
2021-06-26 19:54:22	silux	bpmedley: I think it's a great way to show how HTTP even work and that in the iend it too is just text and not some computer magic...
2021-06-26 19:54:23	blackgatonegro	Basicaly Windows 10 ecists cause money and Internet Explorer
2021-06-26 19:54:27	MrElendig	phogg: that is the escuse I got from a ms insider anyway
2021-06-26 19:54:35	Dagmar	Sauvin: The state most of the installs appeared to be in, because the update mechanism was just f**king broken
2021-06-26 19:54:42	MrElendig	so it was mostly a version bump to not piss off people
2021-06-26 19:54:43	phogg	MrElendig: Modern microsoft doesn't seem to have a problem breaking compatibility.
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2021-06-26 19:54:53	blackgatonegro	Because otherwise they can fill their promise to fully remove the thing
2021-06-26 19:54:59	Dagmar	Part of the reason I updated my workstation to 10 was that 7 literally _could not_ update from a clean installation
2021-06-26 19:55:01	phogg	MrElendig: I'll buy that, sure.
2021-06-26 19:55:02	MrElendig	with a bit of pr from "ohh shiny new version" mixed in
2021-06-26 19:55:21	Psi-Jack	Ooohmg, shiny!
2021-06-26 19:55:25	blackgatonegro	Modern microsoft doesn't seem to have a problem breaking anything they feel like breaking
2021-06-26 19:55:34	Sauvin	The "update mechanism" is what's responsible for Windows' short lifetime on computers I bring home. Spend more time updating the goddamn thing and reboot than actually USING it.
2021-06-26 19:55:37	Dagmar	Like, you had to get a new image and feed it a _massive_ amount of patches before it could acutally calculate what it needed to get from Windows Update
2021-06-26 19:55:47	MrElendig	from a consumer standpoint the android/xbox intigration and directstorage is a pretty big thing
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2021-06-26 19:56:14	phogg	Dagmar: that would be fine if it only happened once. The really fun part is the multiple rounds that have to happen.
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2021-06-26 19:56:22	Dagmar	MrElendig: I can't wait for their first glitch where it decides all the user's files don't exist and then proceeds to clean up
2021-06-26 19:56:24	blackgatonegro	Anyway
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2021-06-26 19:56:40	blackgatonegro	proton can finally play hogs of war on linux...
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2021-06-26 19:56:57	blackgatonegro	too bad the game is so freaking old... and I suck at it
2021-06-26 19:57:01	 *	MrElendig is looking forward to directstorage, though will have to wait for a couple of years to buy hardware that actually supports it
2021-06-26 19:57:03	blackgatonegro	Yay!
2021-06-26 19:57:04	MrElendig	stupid covid
2021-06-26 19:57:04	Dagmar	phogg: Yeah I'd bought new hardware, installed the image, and then waited 24 hours for it to do the windows update dance...  No patches downloaded.  Poked and prodded and tried again... Still no dice.
2021-06-26 19:57:05	gNarli	maybe it was that beast guy
2021-06-26 19:57:15	<--	idego (idego@user/idego) has left #linux (thanks)
2021-06-26 19:57:23	Dagmar	phogg: Wiped the whole thing, got the latest image, installed that... same crap.  Lots of thinking, no downloading.
2021-06-26 19:57:35	blackgatonegro	Windows 7 updated okay... on laptops
2021-06-26 19:57:36	MrElendig	all hail our new faster game loading overlord
2021-06-26 19:57:36	phogg	Dagmar: at least in Linux when you run an unsupported configuration you can always hack it to work anyway
2021-06-26 19:57:36	Dagmar	...and apparently 8 was in the same state.
2021-06-26 19:57:52	Kyv	Microsoft feels that laptops running Windows 11 must have a working HD webcam, and plan to enforce this by 2023.
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2021-06-26 19:58:14	MrElendig	Kyv: considering the state of laptop webcams, that is purely a positive thing
2021-06-26 19:58:16	gNarli	pffffft
2021-06-26 19:58:18	<--	Iamthehuman (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-26 19:58:21	Dagmar	phogg: You could at least tell which packages were out of date at the very least
2021-06-26 19:58:22	blackgatonegro	Kyv thats ridicusly easy to cheat
2021-06-26 19:58:23	gNarli	AppleWindows
2021-06-26 19:58:35	gNarli	at least  they will care about the user end
2021-06-26 19:58:42	MrElendig	Kyv: considering that most are 720p potatovision or worse
2021-06-26 19:59:03	gNarli	instead of making wake for background post-serverside process like microsoft been doin since windows 2k
2021-06-26 19:59:04	blackgatonegro	You can literally trick windows into  thinking a usb flash drive is a working anything
2021-06-26 19:59:40	blackgatonegro	As long is a signed driver
2021-06-26 20:00:02	Kyv	I guess it'll be interesting to see how it pans out for them.
2021-06-26 20:00:11	MrElendig	blackgatonegro: what a user can do, and what a hardware maker can get away with are different things thouygh
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2021-06-26 20:00:19	Kyv	It is a little bit beside the point how easily it can be worked around.
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2021-06-26 20:00:28	MrElendig	blackgatonegro: ms doesn't give away the stickers for free with no oversight
2021-06-26 20:00:40	Dagmar	Kyv: I look forward to being asked to make a Linux image for our guys to use to bootstrap Windows 11 onto machines with
2021-06-26 20:00:41	Dagmar	heh
2021-06-26 20:00:50	gNarli	no kyv if we believe it cant... then it wont
2021-06-26 20:00:56	gNarli	lets use the power of belief
2021-06-26 20:01:23	blackgatonegro	MrElendig signed drivers are hilariusly broken
2021-06-26 20:01:25	<--	antlers (~antlers@162.216.47.34) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 20:01:38	silux	Why would they require a webcam?
2021-06-26 20:01:48	Dagmar	"Reasons"
2021-06-26 20:01:49	blackgatonegro	Heck just a few months ago we had a "problem" about that
2021-06-26 20:01:53	silux	Or rather what is their excuse?
2021-06-26 20:01:55	<--	Atum_ (~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232) has quit (Quit: Atum_)
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2021-06-26 20:02:00	phogg	silux: probably "user experience"
2021-06-26 20:02:05	Dagmar	Mainly I suspect they're just looking to eliminate all those damn chinese garbagecams
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2021-06-26 20:02:17	MrElendig	blackgatonegro: sure. but what actually "matters" is the sticker from ms
2021-06-26 20:02:21	Kyv	Probably biometric security, ostensibly.
2021-06-26 20:02:28	Dagmar	You know, the ones one occasionally buys for $8 and then deeply, deeply regret because they're _all_ different
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2021-06-26 20:02:29	MrElendig	when it comes to any of the serious hardware makers
2021-06-26 20:02:46	phogg	silux: imagine you run Windows and try to use Zoom or something and the video quality is bad. Oh no! That makes Windows look bad.
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2021-06-26 20:03:20	phogg	Kyv: I am waiting for the "You must be smiling to prevent screen lock" update. Not next year, but eventually.
2021-06-26 20:03:32	<--	CombatVet (~c4@user/combatvet) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-26 20:03:39	blackgatonegro	Anyway, proton can run the new legend of mana, probably because is a game from twenty years ago with some HD touches and new music
2021-06-26 20:03:42	Kyv	Oh its coming
2021-06-26 20:03:44	phogg	Unhappy people are deviants, deviants can't be trusted with computers.
2021-06-26 20:03:49	silux	phogg: With Linux we don't have this problem: We just don't get any video at all. /s
2021-06-26 20:04:04	phogg	silux: sure we do. Web cams by and large Just Work
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2021-06-26 20:04:15	blackgatonegro	That's literally all they changed from the game, like it was that hard to include a guide -_-
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2021-06-26 20:04:29	phogg	silux: every laptop I've bought for at least a decade has had working video capture out of the box, no configuration required, on *Debian*.
2021-06-26 20:04:33	gNarli	lul
2021-06-26 20:04:59	silux	phogg: I've never had a webcam so I'm kind of not very up to date on the reality there
2021-06-26 20:05:07	<--	AndroidDAW (~AndroidDA@cpe-172-193-72-46.qld.foxtel.net.au) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-26 20:05:19	blackgatonegro	My laptop has a stupid webcam included
2021-06-26 20:05:22	phogg	silux: there are some things that don't work and some corner cases, but it's basically fine
2021-06-26 20:05:32	<--	szarka (~szarka@24-124-20-18-static.midco.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-26 20:05:40	blackgatonegro	Not that hard to disable it and make windows think it still works
2021-06-26 20:05:42	silux	phogg: Yeah, I've heard good things about that as well
2021-06-26 20:06:03	MrElendig	a company here bought a load of cheap P&S cameras instead, was cheaper and better quality than the webcams available
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2021-06-26 20:07:01	blackgatonegro	Heck my nokia N8 works better that most cheap webcams
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2021-06-26 20:07:09	blackgatonegro	and the thing is freaking old
2021-06-26 20:07:39	gNarli	im not sure if that topic is suitable for this chatroom blackgatonegro
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2021-06-26 20:07:52	silux	Dagmar: By the way you have the same name as my Grandma and I'm having a fun time imagining her having a secret second hacker identity and having a secret computer and everything
2021-06-26 20:07:53	Dagmar	phogg: If you buy those cheap chinese ones and see the ovccam driver coming into play... be afraid
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2021-06-26 20:08:03	Dagmar	silux: Heheh
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2021-06-26 20:08:26	gNarli	perhaps you should take your converse to the #lounge \ #offtopic
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2021-06-26 20:09:08	blackgatonegro	How expensive is a decent keyboard nowadays?
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2021-06-26 20:10:11	silux	Yay, I'm finally done restoring my music backup and copying everything to my phone, so I can finally go to sleep. I've had a good time here, see you all o/
2021-06-26 20:10:21	silux	Bye!
2021-06-26 20:10:23	Dagmar	Bleh.  Someone needs to extend the nfc codes for wifi to hint that the device should NOT use a randomized mac
2021-06-26 20:10:25	blackgatonegro	bye
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2021-06-26 20:10:39	gNarli	well friend, it depends on what you are trying to use your keyboard for!
2021-06-26 20:10:53	Kyv	silux: check her collection of 78's for Hackers: Soundtrack to the Original Motion Picture.
2021-06-26 20:11:12	Dagmar	I just had my phone's battery replaced because the NFC antenna wasn't working (the battery was the cause) and used my NFC tag to get it abck on the network... forgot that it defaults to a randomized mac now
2021-06-26 20:11:17	Kyv	it is a dead giveaway and why my nan isnt allowed within 1200 yards of telecom equipment today.
2021-06-26 20:11:18	<--	ionface (~ionface@user/ionface) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-26 20:11:25	blackgatonegro	no "go blind" keyboards thank you
2021-06-26 20:11:26	gNarli	or your life-style habit ;;; There is a many of sort, ones that roll up, one thats projected via laser\ir, or one that is your casual standard!
2021-06-26 20:11:28	Dagmar	I had _just_ whitelisted the mac and was like, "why is it not downloading these updates?!?!"
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2021-06-26 20:12:04	gNarli	if you are a lil messy, and cluttered.... you probably want one thats water resistance ;; with a high silicone  ;; yeild
2021-06-26 20:12:08	Dagmar	It had quietly changed APs and re-rolled it's MAC address without me seeing it happen
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2021-06-26 20:12:50	Dagmar	Personally I would rather have less obsession with mechanical switches
2021-06-26 20:13:10	blackgatonegro	Just a durable keyboard with all the keys, for a desktop.
2021-06-26 20:13:17	Dagmar	I bought a new keyboard semi-recently and it was nice but after about an hour had to take it back and get the Corsair with the Cherry MX "Silent" keys
2021-06-26 20:13:32	Dagmar	...which changed it from an Ak-47 to a _suppressed_ Ak-47
2021-06-26 20:13:40	tusko	What are the best pdf editors for Linux?
2021-06-26 20:13:51	blackgatonegro	libreoffice?
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2021-06-26 20:14:03	Dagmar	tusko: That's not really a great question since that's not really a format that was _meant_ to be edited
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2021-06-26 20:14:22	wyclif	Dagmar: I have Cherry Browns which are a good tradeoff between actuation and noise
2021-06-26 20:14:22	tusko	editable PDFs exist, I've seen them
2021-06-26 20:14:28	tusko	"fillable"
2021-06-26 20:14:33	Dagmar	Typically one is expected to make a new document with whatever editor and then "print" it through a PDF-generating pipeline
2021-06-26 20:14:46	tusko	But I want to resize some of the text boxes
2021-06-26 20:15:02	Dagmar	wyclif: If at the time the only viable Logitech competitor weren't nearly $200 I would haev gone that route
2021-06-26 20:15:18	Dagmar	They seem to have hired former FOX network execs as well
2021-06-26 20:15:37	Dagmar	"People love the G15 and the extra keys!"  "Great!  Let's take some away!"
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2021-06-26 20:16:02	blackgatonegro	PDF has flaws that definitively make it not reliable for some things is being used for.
2021-06-26 20:16:03	wyclif	Dagmar: Of course I don't work in an office anymore so I could have Blues if I wanted but even so if another person is in the home office listening to music or if I'm on a Zoom call those are out of the question, too clicky clacky
2021-06-26 20:16:04	<--	SmokeInWater7 (~SmokeInWa@user/smokeinwater7) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-26 20:16:18	Dagmar	"People are really loving the idea of just using a phone app instead of putting another OLED in the keyboard."  "Awesome!  Let's make sure it uses no encryption whatsoever and mDNS!"
2021-06-26 20:16:34	<--	krator44 (~krator44@user/krator44) has quit (Quit: --)
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2021-06-26 20:16:58	blackgatonegro	Nowadays people has a lot less brand loyalty
2021-06-26 20:16:59	TomTheDragon	tusko: libreoffice draw can edit pdfs, might not be preferable for extensive edits but it's passable
2021-06-26 20:17:05	<--	niv (~niv@limbo.cypherpunks.io) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-26 20:17:25	blackgatonegro	Because they have a lot less money
2021-06-26 20:17:30	tusko	TomTheDragon, I'll give it a shot. Its too bad acrobat doesn't do well on linuxes
2021-06-26 20:17:58	Dagmar	Acrobat doesn't work well on basically, any platform
2021-06-26 20:18:15	Dagmar	Adobe really needs to take their people who think coding in assembly is a good idea out back and shoot them.
2021-06-26 20:18:29	Dagmar	Assembly is not something people should be writing applications in.
2021-06-26 20:18:59	Dagmar	"Faster" is no good if it means a never-ending stream of crashes and exploits.
2021-06-26 20:19:20	blackgatonegro	Assembly has its uses but is to save space and run things faster, not to multiplataform stuff
2021-06-26 20:19:33	Dagmar	I'm thinking operating systems and drivers and nothing else.
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2021-06-26 20:19:44	Gustavo6046	my c project is stuck in debugging hell
2021-06-26 20:19:45	Gustavo6046	;-;
2021-06-26 20:19:48	Gustavo6046	i can't move forward
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2021-06-26 20:19:50	Gustavo6046	this stings
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2021-06-26 20:20:33	blackgatonegro	Eh you are using C, really should have used something a bit more modern
2021-06-26 20:21:14	blackgatonegro	At least is not java hell
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2021-06-26 20:21:39	Gustavo6046	nah
2021-06-26 20:21:42	Gustavo6046	i mean
2021-06-26 20:21:44	Gustavo6046	i like c
2021-06-26 20:21:50	Gustavo6046	and the issue is in a part of the codebase that i don't like, and is convoluted
2021-06-26 20:21:51	Sauvin	Can C be used in parallel with something like Rust?
2021-06-26 20:21:58	Gustavo6046	it's my convoluted and probably excessive attempt at a pool allocator of sorts
2021-06-26 20:22:05	Gustavo6046	and i mean reducing malloc() calls
2021-06-26 20:22:30	Gustavo6046	see https://github.com/Gustavo6046/annkh/poollist.c and https://github.com/Gustavo6046/annkh/list.c
2021-06-26 20:22:50	blackgatonegro	C can be ported to anything but... making it work with something else... ugh
2021-06-26 20:23:04	Gustavo6046	cross compilation?
2021-06-26 20:23:05	Sauvin	So, blackgatonegro, can Rust use C libs?
2021-06-26 20:23:09	Gustavo6046	depends on what you are actually porting
2021-06-26 20:23:24	Gustavo6046	it's mostly a toolchain/library issue, not a language or cross compilation deficiency issue
2021-06-26 20:23:27	Gustavo6046	Sauvin: it can
2021-06-26 20:23:37	Gustavo6046	rustc iirc uses LLVM
2021-06-26 20:23:39	Sauvin	I think that used to not be true. Hrm.
2021-06-26 20:23:44	Gustavo6046	and rust is pretty operable with system libs
2021-06-26 20:23:45	blackgatonegro	I think you can PORT stuff to Rust but not direct use... then again I am not a Rust expert
2021-06-26 20:23:50	Gustavo6046	C libraries are just system libraries
2021-06-26 20:23:55	Gustavo6046	the fact they're written in C isn't too relevant
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2021-06-26 20:24:09	Gustavo6046	at least not if they're assembled, ie PIC libraries
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2021-06-26 20:24:49	blackgatonegro	jar hell is not only for java from what I heard, just more common in java
2021-06-26 20:25:42	blackgatonegro	so ideally, you want to include the libraries, so the program can just run, but that takes more space...
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2021-06-26 20:26:43	puff	I undocked my thinkpad t580 running xubuntu 18.4 and now all of my windows are about 1.6 times as big as my laptop display.
2021-06-26 20:27:00	Gustavo6046	wait
2021-06-26 20:27:02	Gustavo6046	I think I linked wrong
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2021-06-26 20:27:19	Gustavo6046	yeah
2021-06-26 20:27:20	blackgatonegro	puff, tried to reset X?
2021-06-26 20:27:21	Gustavo6046	https://github.com/Gustavo6046/annkh/blob/master/src/poollist.c
2021-06-26 20:27:23	Gustavo6046	and https://github.com/Gustavo6046/annkh/blob/master/src/pool.c
2021-06-26 20:27:33	puff	When docked I'm using it with an acer 27" monitor via HDMI out.  Normally ubuntu is smart enough to resize everything when I undock, not sure what happened here. Hm, I did do suspend before unplugging everything.
2021-06-26 20:27:40	puff	blackgatonegro: Will that close my apps or etc?
2021-06-26 20:27:43	Gustavo6046	yep, I did a pool allocator then wrote a list container on top of it
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2021-06-26 20:28:08	blackgatonegro	puff, it resets the display... so... maybe
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2021-06-26 20:28:37	puff	blackgatonegro: Googling on "linux reset X" turns up mostly using ctl-alt-backspace to restart the x server.  That generally closes your apps, etc.
2021-06-26 20:28:49	blackgatonegro	Altenatelly switch the display manually with a terminal command
2021-06-26 20:29:16	<--	gNarli (~gNarli@ip-99-203-40-26.pools.cgn.spcsdns.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-26 20:29:25	blackgatonegro	But that might also close evething
2021-06-26 20:30:02	Sauvin	There's a series of keypresses involving sysreq, I thought, but I've forgotten what it is.
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2021-06-26 20:32:25	blackgatonegro	xrandr–size might work but it may close your apps
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2021-06-26 20:40:35	uwharrie	That's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key but most distros have disabled it and Ctrl+Alt+Del
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2021-06-26 21:27:40	jim	tusko, well what you shouldn't run, is telnet-d-... telnet is good as a testing tool. but, know that all your activity can be observed, so login names and passwords (and everything else) are sent in cleartext. For similar reasons, ftpd should be avoided, and ftp is cautioned because everything is cleartext
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2021-06-26 21:29:30	bruvvha	hey so I'm wanting to roll out a new bacula environment... the last time I selected bacula was over 10 years ago. Are there any other similar packages I should consider?
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2021-06-26 21:29:56	gry	bruvvha: hi
2021-06-26 21:30:05	gry	bruvvha: what should it do
2021-06-26 21:30:07	hamtrax	Sup
2021-06-26 21:30:29	gry	hamtrax: hello
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2021-06-26 21:30:34	gry	hamtrax: how are you?
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2021-06-26 21:31:30	hamtrax	Wrestling ancient demons
2021-06-26 21:32:00	bruvvha	gry, operate backups for a number of linux hosts over a network
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2021-06-26 21:34:33	Dagmar	Bacula's fine
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2021-06-26 21:35:05	bruvvha	Indeed. But the question was, are there any new/modern alternatives to bacula?
2021-06-26 21:35:18	bruvvha	ie. like checkmk to nagios
2021-06-26 21:36:03	Dagmar	Depends on your use case
2021-06-26 21:36:06	hamtrax	I've got an older flatscreen that has no 1-to-1 pixel setting for any relevant input, and I'm unaware of any amdgpu config options to control under/overscan.  I'm on pop_os, and gnome's option for adjust for tv doesn't do enough to adjust entirely.  xrandr also doesn't allow enough adjustment.  wat di?
2021-06-26 21:36:21	Dagmar	I always wind up writing a crapton of the tests myself, sooo.. . Nagios
2021-06-26 21:36:23	bruvvha	<bruvvha> gry, operate backups for a number of linux hosts over a network
2021-06-26 21:37:09	Dagmar	hamtrax: You pretty much outlined all the reasonable methods
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2021-06-26 21:37:30	Dagmar	You can always try generating a modeline, but I'd look for a display that isn't a really stupid panel
2021-06-26 21:37:47	Dagmar	ANything with a digital input has no excuse for not being frame-exact
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2021-06-26 21:39:31	hamtrax	Dagmar: it's a TV, I'm not replacing it until it dies (and even then may not replace it), it'd just be nice to use it.  I've had some luck with wayland, but x11 still reigns supreme I guess
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2021-06-26 21:40:13	Dagmar	Then you are _definitely_ looking at generating a modeline
2021-06-26 21:40:35	hamtrax	Ugh, math or whatever
2021-06-26 21:40:47	Dagmar	Meh there's websites with boxes you can fill in that will generate them now
2021-06-26 21:40:59	Dagmar	NTSC is your real enemy now
2021-06-26 21:41:16	Dagmar	Don't even ask about color correction.  It probably has knobs
2021-06-26 21:41:16	hamtrax	Can has linkage to one that is correct mayhaps?
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2021-06-26 21:41:46	Dagmar	Literally google "modeline generator"
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2021-06-26 21:41:50	Dagmar	It's not a black art
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2021-06-26 21:42:18	hamtrax	Dagmar you're making a lot of assumptions about my capability here
2021-06-26 21:42:24	bruvvha	no alternative network backup systems? k then.
2021-06-26 21:42:39	bruvvha	Dagmar, ps checkmk does everything nagios does and more
2021-06-26 21:42:42	bruvvha	and better
2021-06-26 21:42:53	Dagmar	bruvvha: I'm pretty sure it does not do the things I'm writing checks for
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2021-06-26 21:43:00	bruvvha	your crapton of tests can be done in checkmk just as they are done in nagios
2021-06-26 21:43:20	bruvvha	you use check scripts just as you do in nagios
2021-06-26 21:43:26	Dagmar	I am not about to switch testing frameworks for no visible benefit
2021-06-26 21:43:30	bruvvha	as it is based on nagios
2021-06-26 21:43:38	bruvvha	so it is the same framework as a base
2021-06-26 21:43:46	Dagmar	That's not exactly a point in it's favor, man
2021-06-26 21:44:11	bruvvha	ok points in its favour... the check engine was rewritten, and is more efficient which means it draws less cpu
2021-06-26 21:44:22	Dagmar	At one point I nearly sat down and wrote them a _new_ process scheduler
2021-06-26 21:44:37	bruvvha	it also has more notification handlers like atlassians opsgenie
2021-06-26 21:44:45	Dagmar	Yay more things I don't need
2021-06-26 21:45:04	bruvvha	are you one of those guys who are trapped in 1999?
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2021-06-26 21:45:15	Dagmar	No, I'm one of those guys who has been gainfully employed since 1999.
2021-06-26 21:45:23	bruvvha	the web engine is also better in checkmk
2021-06-26 21:45:45	Dagmar	I have better things to do with my time than chase new frameworks just because some new hire is all starry-eyed about it
2021-06-26 21:46:23	Dagmar	At this point if I schedule a reboot of equipment, I can do it from the command line on the host itself, and it will go schedule it's own downtime
2021-06-26 21:46:25	Bossi	hi folks, i am getting out of ideas why i cant unmount a filesystem, lsof and fuser dont show any use, also have the nfsserver stopped, but still one filesystem refuses to umount
2021-06-26 21:46:27	bruvvha	oh so we're a similar age then, except im not going out of my way to bring up my personal circumstance such as employment or experience. Good luck with the job.
2021-06-26 21:46:44	Dagmar	Bossi: Something is definitely useing it.  Make sure it's not (heh) you sitting in a directory in there
2021-06-26 21:47:10	Bossi	as i already said, lsof does not show any usage for that path or device
2021-06-26 21:47:27	Bossi	otherwise the cwd entry would show up in lsof
2021-06-26 21:47:32	Dagmar	bruvvha: Don't pretend to be taking the high ground after that crack about being stuck in 1999.
2021-06-26 21:47:58	bruvvha	Dagmar, I think you clearly demonstrated with your unwillingness to consider other options, validated my point
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2021-06-26 21:48:26	bruvvha	despite what you believe, it does appear you are trapped in 1999
2021-06-26 21:48:41	bruvvha	do you still have napster out there?
2021-06-26 21:48:52	Dagmar	Bossi: Did you perhaps mount something _below_ that?
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2021-06-26 21:49:28	Dagmar	The nfs server is usually the other thing that can mess up plans, but since you've already killed it...
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2021-06-26 21:49:58	Dagmar	Perhaps run those tools pointed at the device rather than the mountpoint?
2021-06-26 21:50:32	 *	rascul releases Dagmar's trap
2021-06-26 21:50:44	Bossi	i did a "find /mountpoint/. -type f -print0 | xargs -0 fuser", no results, either with type d
2021-06-26 21:51:09	 *	onelegend traps rascul in 1999
2021-06-26 21:51:09	Dagmar	Ther'es a few oddball things that can still be in the way, like inotify watches, but at that point if there's no reason not to I'd just say "screw you mystery process" and rbeoot
2021-06-26 21:51:23	 *	onelegend motions for scientists to continue the experiment
2021-06-26 21:51:31	 *	rascul dumps a bunch of butterflies on onelegend
2021-06-26 21:51:35	Dagmar	Bossi: Try lsof +f - /dev/device
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2021-06-26 21:51:45	Bossi	when i do fuser -m /mountpoint i get "Specified filename /mountpoint has no mountpoint" but its still showing up in the mount table
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2021-06-26 21:51:51	Dagmar	There are LOTS of things your command invocation won't find
2021-06-26 21:52:23	Dagmar	er lsof +f -- /dev/device
2021-06-26 21:52:25	Dagmar	Two dashes
2021-06-26 21:52:52	Bossi	no output
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2021-06-26 21:53:33	Bossi	believe me, i am doing linux since 0.99pl4
2021-06-26 21:53:45	tusko	ew
2021-06-26 21:53:57	Dagmar	Then why on earth are you still pointing fuser/lsof at a file path
2021-06-26 21:54:11	Dagmar	...and find should never have been involved.
2021-06-26 21:54:24	tusko	some people aren't very smart Dagmar
2021-06-26 21:54:26	Bossi	as i said, running out of ideas why my kernel refuses to unmount
2021-06-26 21:54:29	tusko	and that's ok
2021-06-26 21:54:35	gry	bruvvha: got it, it is not something i do, i hope input from others was helpful
2021-06-26 21:54:37	Dagmar	Files which no longer have an entry in the directory tree can still very easily be open by processes
2021-06-26 21:54:56	Bossi	then they would show up as (deleted) entries in lsof
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2021-06-26 21:57:35	Dagmar	tusko: I try not to make judgements like that, man
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2021-06-26 22:00:59	tusko	I'm not suggesting anyone in particular is ~smart, just saying every now and then we all do dumb things.
2021-06-26 22:01:55	rascul	everything is dumb
2021-06-26 22:01:57	[[R]]	tusko: 🎶 every now and then I fall apart
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2021-06-26 22:02:42	tusko	Great song.
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2021-06-26 22:03:49	hamtrax	Oh goodie, the output to the TV is listed as disconnected in xrandr even tho I'm staring at the screen reading it...
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2021-06-26 22:05:27	Dagmar	If you're using something "less" than VGA it literally has no way of knowing otherwise
2021-06-26 22:05:46	hamtrax	Nope, I was wrong
2021-06-26 22:08:46	hamtrax	Thought it was HDMI, it's a DP-HDMI cable.
2021-06-26 22:08:59	Psi-Jack	Huh?
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2021-06-26 22:10:07	Psi-Jack	Huh, have they gotten chips in those cables capable and small enough to work between the entirely two different display technologies?
2021-06-26 22:10:42	[[R]]	Psi-Jack: well if they can put a chip in a vacinne
2021-06-26 22:10:43	 *	[[R]] giggles
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2021-06-26 22:11:33	Psi-Jack	Well, if they can inject a miniaturized pod, piloted by a man, into a human, by accident of course.
2021-06-26 22:11:57	Psi-Jack	Oh, wait, that was a movie. :)
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2021-06-26 22:13:08	hamtrax	Hey I remember that movie
2021-06-26 22:13:27	hamtrax	Randy Quaid's less alcoholic brother
2021-06-26 22:13:40	Psi-Jack	heh
2021-06-26 22:15:08	hamtrax	Yep HDMI is the same, yay
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2021-06-26 22:16:20	Psi-Jack	Same?
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2021-06-26 22:17:10	hamtrax	Ugh literally every time I buy something that lasts longer than a year it's got some BS problem like this that makes it unfit for purpose as soon as the warranty runs out
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2021-06-26 22:18:38	jaggz	what is "window switching"?  Kde has this thing "Toggle window switching"
2021-06-26 22:18:40	jaggz	no clue what it does
2021-06-26 22:20:30	Psi-Jack	jaggz: No clue without context.
2021-06-26 22:20:37	<--	CodeSpelunker (~CodeSpelu@user/codespelunker) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 22:20:59	Psi-Jack	Unless.. That's the Alt+Tab...
2021-06-26 22:21:15	jaggz	Psi-Jack, at the edges of the desktop you can set the hotzones for the mouse.  like when you move your mouse to a corner, have it show an overview of all windows
2021-06-26 22:21:27	jaggz	one of the actions listed that can be triggered is "toggle window switching"
2021-06-26 22:21:43	jaggz	doesn't seem to do anything (but I'm sure I turned off and on and off and on "window switching".. :)
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2021-06-26 22:21:51	Psi-Jack	Ahh. Yeah, that toggles enabled/disabled Alt+Tab?
2021-06-26 22:22:10	jaggz	doesn't seem to affect that
2021-06-26 22:22:22	Psi-Jack	Hmm dunno then. KDE is dead to me.
2021-06-26 22:22:27	jaggz	heh
2021-06-26 22:22:39	Psi-Jack	Too many bugs, too many great features removed and destroyed.
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2021-06-26 22:23:23	Psi-Jack	hamtrax: No clue what you're on about though. :)
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2021-06-26 22:28:47	hamtrax	Modelines are bullsh*t
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2021-06-26 22:31:22	Psi-Jack	$random $ramble.
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2021-06-26 22:31:29	rascul	hamtrax they're not
2021-06-26 22:31:38	rascul	i work on a cow farm so i'm kind of an expert
2021-06-26 22:32:09	rascul	modelines are way worse
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2021-06-26 22:32:12	[[R]]	rascul: mooo
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2021-06-26 22:32:48	 *	rascul gives [[R]] a moose
2021-06-26 22:33:16	[[R]]	you have mooses AND cows?
2021-06-26 22:33:21	rascul	no, you have the moose
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2021-06-26 22:33:55	hamtrax	Can you help me be less stupid with modelines?
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2021-06-26 22:34:06	rascul	just use cvt
2021-06-26 22:34:14	Psi-Jack	Can you actually provide something not useless jibberish?
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2021-06-26 22:34:49	rascul	why do you need to care about modelines though?
2021-06-26 22:34:54	rascul	linux is modern nowadays
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2021-06-26 22:36:06	hamtrax	Copypasta from an hour agoI've got an older flatscreen that has no 1-to-1 pixel setting for any relevant input, and I'm unaware of any amdgpu config options to control under/overscan.  I'm on pop_os, and gnome's option for adjust for tv doesn't do enough to adjust entirely.  xrandr also doesn't allow enough adjustment.  wat do?
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2021-06-26 22:36:34	rascul	i have no clue what to do
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2021-06-26 22:36:54	rascul	probably ask on irc
2021-06-26 22:37:06	rascul	i guess that's what you're doing though
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2021-06-26 22:37:26	Psi-Jack	Heh, pop! OS, basically Ubuntu with some pre-installed Gnome extensions and bad support.
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2021-06-26 22:39:30	hamtrax	That's really great to hear, I wonder if ubuntu fixed my super specific niche problem that exists across literally every distro and DE I've tried in the last two years since the last time I tried
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2021-06-26 22:41:13	Dagmar	You just need to make a custom modeline and adjust the porch values because you have a terrible display
2021-06-26 22:41:29	Dagmar	There's plenty of docs explaining how
2021-06-26 22:41:53	hamtrax	Dagmar: the docs hurt my soul
2021-06-26 22:41:58	Dagmar	Everyone else basically walked away from horrible analog displays _ten_ years ago
2021-06-26 22:42:36	jim	hamtrax, welcome to lots of multiplying and dividing
2021-06-26 22:42:45	Psi-Jack	hamtrax: Perhaps. Or perhaps, it's time to... You know. Get out of the stone ages?
2021-06-26 22:43:02	Psi-Jack	heh
2021-06-26 22:43:12	jim	that would require money and stuff
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2021-06-26 22:43:38	Dagmar	At this point so does getting rid of a CRT
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2021-06-26 22:43:44	hamtrax	I don't even know what you mean by analog in this context, the VGA port on this display is the only one that works properly, but, ya know, VGA is garbo.  It's a 1080p LCD screen with a horrible OSD
2021-06-26 22:43:49	jim	yeah
2021-06-26 22:44:20	jim	hamtrax, crts are analog
2021-06-26 22:44:20	Dagmar	If it takes VGA and is 1080 then it should not need porch values or overscan
2021-06-26 22:44:38	tusko	I wrote a VGA driver once for 1080p
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2021-06-26 22:45:15	hamtrax	This is an LCD flatscreen with HDMI inputs, I don't want to use the VGA input
2021-06-26 22:45:18	jim	so if it doesn't have protective circuitry, you may not have two chances to do it... get your fire extinguisher close, ready and charged
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2021-06-26 22:45:28	Dagmar	Then it definitely does not need overscan
2021-06-26 22:45:39	Dagmar	Oh noes you'll see the very edges of the picture
2021-06-26 22:45:43	jim	oh, it's not a crt?
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2021-06-26 22:46:21	Psi-Jack	I mean, with HDMI input, it's not THAT old.
2021-06-26 22:46:23	jim	(historically speaking, crts needed high voltages, could be dangerous
2021-06-26 22:46:24	Dagmar	...and if it's actually 1080 then it very much does have a 1:1 pixel mapping
2021-06-26 22:46:27	jim	)
2021-06-26 22:46:33	hamtrax	It needs *underscan*, there's too much overscan.  There isn't enough adjustment available to get the entire picture on the display
2021-06-26 22:46:54	Dagmar	There should not be overscan involved in digital outputs
2021-06-26 22:47:11	Dagmar	The manufacturer screwed up if it does that
2021-06-26 22:47:16	hamtrax	Welcome to my life for the last 5 years
2021-06-26 22:47:28	jim	hamtrax, you might need to calculate your own mode
2021-06-26 22:47:35	Dagmar	Poke at the OSD until it stops doing that
2021-06-26 22:47:59	Psi-Jack	It also sounds a lot like it's REALLY just a dying monitor, and needs to be recycled, and a new one bought.
2021-06-26 22:47:59	Dagmar	jim: Told him that like two hours ago
2021-06-26 22:48:07	hamtrax	The OSD definitely does not have any setting for that
2021-06-26 22:48:23	hamtrax	It's from 2009
2021-06-26 22:48:30	Dagmar	Which is literally _shameful_
2021-06-26 22:48:32	Psi-Jack	It's lived a full light.
2021-06-26 22:48:37	Psi-Jack	life*
2021-06-26 22:48:46	hamtrax	Literally bought it a month before this became a standard feature, apparently
2021-06-26 22:48:47	tusko	2009 was a great year
2021-06-26 22:48:47	Dagmar	No one should have been making crippled displays like that in 2009.
2021-06-26 22:48:49	jim	yeah, please don't use shame
2021-06-26 22:49:01	jim	agreed
2021-06-26 22:49:11	Dagmar	That largely stopped being a thing manufacturers did in 2001.
2021-06-26 22:49:15	Psi-Jack	Nope, HDMI, it didn't.
2021-06-26 22:49:25	Psi-Jack	Like I said, this is an obvious hardware problem.
2021-06-26 22:49:27	Dagmar	The manufacturer is bad and they should feel bad.
2021-06-26 22:49:38	tusko	wow, 2001. the last year America wasn't at war with anybody for a while
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2021-06-26 22:50:03	hamtrax	Talk to BestBuy's inhouse Insignia brand, I'm the idiot that bought it over a Sony
2021-06-26 22:50:14	Dagmar	Wow you should have taken it back then
2021-06-26 22:50:18	hamtrax	tusko woo, a whole year
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2021-06-26 22:50:36	Dagmar	I used to have a 41" of theirs I bought in about 2005 and it did have a setting to disable overscan/underscan
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2021-06-26 22:50:54	hamtrax	Dagmar hey, it only had a laptop and a bluray player attached to it until about 5 years ago
2021-06-26 22:50:57	tusko	that might have been the year Janet Jackson had her tity out, but I can't recall
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2021-06-26 22:51:29	Dagmar	Man there probably is an option to disable the pointless overscan
2021-06-26 22:51:48	tusko	pointless overscan?
2021-06-26 22:51:53	hamtrax	And that laptop apparently had some special sauce that allowed me to not f***ing deal with this crap
2021-06-26 22:52:00	tusko	Do you mean the front and back porches?
2021-06-26 22:52:07	tusko	and the sync signal?
2021-06-26 22:52:18	Dagmar	I actually _kept_ a 37" CRT until about 2010 or so.  I had _endless_ fun dealing with the porch values, not to mention the colors
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2021-06-26 22:52:30	Dagmar	Equipment like that should be getting ground up and turned into vape rigs or something
2021-06-26 22:52:35	hamtrax	Dagmar nope, I've literally scoured the OSD and the manual, there is no option.
2021-06-26 22:52:36	tusko	lol
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2021-06-26 22:52:47	tusko	I'm sensing a lot of VGA hate in here
2021-06-26 22:52:55	twainwek	good morning
2021-06-26 22:53:00	Dagmar	tusko: I learned very well why 'NTSC' is also called 'Never The Same Color'
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2021-06-26 22:53:15	Dagmar	VGA is somewhat reliable compared to purely analog
2021-06-26 22:53:18	hamtrax	I would use the VGA input if it wasn't literally dog crap
2021-06-26 22:53:19	twainwek	do usb type-c hubs require specific drivers
2021-06-26 22:53:24	sheep	I have YIQ
2021-06-26 22:53:29	sheep	*hate
2021-06-26 22:53:30	Dagmar	twainwek: Generally no.
2021-06-26 22:53:34	jim	tusko, vga is just really old, too small and not enough colors
2021-06-26 22:53:35	tusko	If, by that, you mean colors look different on every different display, I know that struggle.
2021-06-26 22:53:51	Dagmar	Your USB chipset on your motherboard might, but as far as that goes a hub is a basic USB device
2021-06-26 22:54:06	Dagmar	tusko: I mean by that the colors looked different from _day to day_
2021-06-26 22:54:25	Dagmar	tusko: I was doing an entire LCARS theme for MythTV including animated portions
2021-06-26 22:54:32	tusko	it was always weird to me that they modeled VGA off of a classic vacuum tube circuit or whatever
2021-06-26 22:55:11	twainwek	Dagmar: so how does an ethernet->usb type-c work
2021-06-26 22:55:23	Dagmar	So, after obtaining about a dozen different DVDs and blu-rays to screencap everything and sample the colors _exactly_ I had a display that looked just freakin' perfect on the LCD flatpanel, but looked a little wonky on the CRT
2021-06-26 22:55:38	Dagmar	I looked a little closer, and realized the colors were off.
2021-06-26 22:56:01	Dagmar	I went and got the tools necesary to take precise readings, cracked open the unit, and adjusted the trimpots.
2021-06-26 22:56:07	Dagmar	Two days later, colors are wonky again
2021-06-26 22:56:30	Dagmar	It's like 2% off but it's enough i can see it when the displays are side by side
2021-06-26 22:56:53	Dagmar	NTSC is just kind of dreadful for pilot frequencies
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2021-06-26 22:57:42	Dagmar	At least with VGA there is a fixed maximum signal level.
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2021-06-26 22:59:22	Dagmar	...and anything resembling a zero is absolutely a zero.
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2021-06-26 22:59:39	Dagmar	With NTSC it's "probably the center area-ish"
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2021-06-26 23:09:09	Psi-Jack	[[R]]: And you seem to be right. It actually is kinda hard.
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2021-06-26 23:10:27	Dagmar	twainwek: It may seem mad but there's not any serious reason why you can't run USB over cat6 other than teh connectors don't normally fit without an adapter
2021-06-26 23:10:50	mlu	USB2 over Cat6? works fine
2021-06-26 23:10:55	hamtrax	It's copper all the way down
2021-06-26 23:10:56	Dagmar	Type-C does not (as I have learned recently) really mean anything other than "round ended connector"
2021-06-26 23:10:58	mlu	USB3 over Cat6 -- you'll need the good stuff
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2021-06-26 23:11:32	Dagmar	It took some careful scrutiny that would actually do USB 3.0 for the HMD I bought
2021-06-26 23:11:45	Dagmar	er to find a cable that would
2021-06-26 23:12:11	Dagmar	With Oculus charging freakin' $75 with a straight face for one, I was willing to risk sending a few things back but I got lucky
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2021-06-26 23:12:48	mlu	ah yeah -- most cat6 is only rated for up to 350MHz -- just below what's necessary for full USB 2.0, but still good enough
2021-06-26 23:12:59	Dagmar	Jokes on me tho since I eventually just spent $65 on an AC1750 access point.  Heh
2021-06-26 23:12:59	mlu	** 350MHz at ~100m
2021-06-26 23:13:16	hamtrax	Ui?
2021-06-26 23:13:34	mlu	that sounds like a MicroTik cAP AC based on the price
2021-06-26 23:13:43	Dagmar	Nah, a Tp-link
2021-06-26 23:13:50	hamtrax	Oof
2021-06-26 23:14:02	Dagmar	...which I have been avoiding reflashing with one of the WRTs
2021-06-26 23:14:09	Psi-Jack	heh, Facebook's owning Oculus will now be embedding ads.
2021-06-26 23:14:13	Psi-Jack	No thanks!
2021-06-26 23:14:14	mlu	Dagmar: any reason why you didn't opt for a HDMI cable or even some fiber-based solution?
2021-06-26 23:14:17	Dagmar	Their firmware appears to be based on it but I found a really stupid bug right away
2021-06-26 23:14:37	Dagmar	I'll fix the bug for the OpenWRT folks, but I don't want to have to face the fact that TP-Link's engineers aren't very bright
2021-06-26 23:14:50	hamtrax	Based on!= good
2021-06-26 23:14:54	Dagmar	mlu: Because it doesn't have that kind of connector
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2021-06-26 23:15:18	hamtrax	Every experience I've ever haf with TPlink has been garbage
2021-06-26 23:15:32	Dagmar	If you put the thing in "AP Mode", but still have it's management interface listening to an IP supplied by DHCP, it does a new DHCP lease request _every thirty seconds_, ad infinitum
2021-06-26 23:15:40	mlu	TP-Link = cheap home-grade stuff as far as the software goes
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2021-06-26 23:15:57	mlu	but if you wanted cheap and physically durable, they can deliver on those quite well
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2021-06-26 23:16:15	Dagmar	From waht poking I've done on it it looks like TP-Links major contibution to the firmware is that they wrote a branded web interface
2021-06-26 23:16:26	Dagmar	...but the DHCP bug kills me
2021-06-26 23:16:39	Dagmar	THeir response was literally "BUt it doesn't violate RFC"
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2021-06-26 23:17:15	mlu	"yeah, but does it work?" ...
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2021-06-26 23:17:41	Dagmar	It _works_ fine, but hte DHCP bug is stupid and I have that stuff going into a database and being analyzed and stuff
2021-06-26 23:17:50	Dagmar	I have _lots_ of IOT crap here
2021-06-26 23:18:20	mlu	eek, would never trust a TP-Link to something like that unless it was just being a dumb switch
2021-06-26 23:18:20	Dagmar	Under certain conditions, this many devices on "consumer level" APs turns into a freakin' bar brawl
2021-06-26 23:18:43	Dagmar	Said bar brawl results in a crapton of DHCP leases
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2021-06-26 23:18:57	mlu	damn kids and their IoT -- this is the sign that I'm becoming an old fogey
2021-06-26 23:19:28	Dagmar	I would honestly buy the Google mesh units but they don't support AP mode and mesh at the same time, which seems silly to me
2021-06-26 23:19:49	mlu	say, what's with the DHCP bug? it's issuing new leases every time and not renewing them?
2021-06-26 23:20:08	<--	tkimball (~tkimball@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-26 23:20:16	Dagmar	mlu: No, it's literally making a new DHCP lease request every thirty seconds
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2021-06-26 23:20:40	mlu	Dagmar: eek
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2021-06-26 23:21:05	mlu	better couple that with a good router :)
2021-06-26 23:21:09	Dagmar	Being that the "normal" and "well-behaved" and not to mention "RFC suggested" response is to refresh a lease at 1/2 the expiry time, what do you want to bet it's screwing up calculating the lease length, and deciding all leases it gets are _one_ minute long
2021-06-26 23:21:12	mlu	what an abusive device
2021-06-26 23:21:26	Dagmar	It's the only thing on the network here now that isn't DHCP
2021-06-26 23:21:38	Dagmar	I had to set it up as a static IP to make that nonsense stop
2021-06-26 23:21:50	mlu	I generally setup static leases on most things on my network
2021-06-26 23:21:56	Dagmar	If anyone ever buys a lot of these, god help them
2021-06-26 23:22:21	mlu	yeah, that one will be hard to debug
2021-06-26 23:22:32	Dagmar	mlu: Yeah I have static lease assignments for everything, and a three day lease default so there should be like, at most 50-60 lease requests
2021-06-26 23:22:46	Dagmar	No I imagine it will be fairly _easy_ to debug actually
2021-06-26 23:22:53	Dagmar	DHCP code is not complex
2021-06-26 23:22:54	mlu	if you know what you're doing, sure
2021-06-26 23:22:58	Dagmar	I do.
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2021-06-26 23:23:16	mlu	average person doesn't know what an IP address is :)
2021-06-26 23:23:43	mlu	and you hire a networking guy, you're lucky if they can be bothered to fire up wireshark
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2021-06-26 23:24:37	Dagmar	I figured when I said to them "This represents an over 2000% increase in the number of DHCP queries being made" that it might sway them
2021-06-26 23:24:58	Dagmar	It's literally 2,880 lease requests a day when it's doing that
2021-06-26 23:24:59	mlu	once every 30sec isn't too bad on a modern network though
2021-06-26 23:25:10	mlu	that sounds about as often as an IPv6 router advertisement
2021-06-26 23:25:16	Dagmar	No, but I've also ridden herd on a network with 20,000+ hosts on it
2021-06-26 23:25:32	mlu	(but that said, you typically only have one per IPv6 network with that setup)
2021-06-26 23:26:06	Dagmar	DHCP is supposed to be quick and generally is not a _wasteful_ protocol so it *can* be quick
2021-06-26 23:26:22	mlu	20000 hosts? hmm -- that sounds like an ISP or office
2021-06-26 23:26:35	Dagmar	An entire college campus spanning a few square miiles
2021-06-26 23:26:38	Dagmar	...and a hospital.
2021-06-26 23:26:52	mlu	college campuses are scary
2021-06-26 23:27:03	Dagmar	That can actually be served by a couple of 1U's without strain
2021-06-26 23:27:13	mlu	worst part about cfollege campuses is that you have kids that like to have fun
2021-06-26 23:27:27	mlu	and some are smart enough to be really really annoying
2021-06-26 23:27:44	Dagmar	Yeah I used to get calls from them in the middle of the night.  "It says my IP was banned for infringement."
2021-06-26 23:28:19	mlu	"well, did you infringe the AUP?"
2021-06-26 23:28:29	Dagmar	I literally had to tell a kid, "Look, what we actually care about is getting nastygrams from law firms, so just ratchet it back a little and you won't irk the network IDS."
2021-06-26 23:29:23	Dagmar	THe dude had done nearlt 20T in a week flat
2021-06-26 23:29:35	mlu	holy ****
2021-06-26 23:29:39	Dagmar	Yeah
2021-06-26 23:29:45	hamtrax	y tho
2021-06-26 23:29:50	mlu	back when I was in college, the cap was 12GB/wk
2021-06-26 23:30:07	mlu	and i'm raising alarm bills if my company's CDN sees a 1TB spike
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2021-06-26 23:30:33	mlu	** alarm bells if my company's CDN sees a >1TB spike in monthly usage
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2021-06-26 23:31:26	mlu	like 20TB -- I'm not sure that even my HD drive access uses that much over the course of a week
2021-06-26 23:31:47	Dagmar	My wife streams TV practically all day and we just kinda push up against 1Tb for the month, so I don't know what the kid was thinking aside from maybe "We'll download all the torrents on TPB!"
2021-06-26 23:32:14	Dagmar	That particular monitor was set up to spot exfiltration of data
2021-06-26 23:32:26	Dagmar	...which occasionally the researchers would trigger.
2021-06-26 23:32:57	mlu	even at $0.005/GB, 20TB is a $100 bandwidth bill
2021-06-26 23:32:58	Dagmar	Then we'd point out to them there are actually some six foot tall boxes full of nothing but disks they just have to ask about
2021-06-26 23:33:09	Dagmar	"Why in god's name would you even mirror this to your house"
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2021-06-26 23:36:12	Dagmar	I did not hear of anyone actually being *up* to something from triggering that
2021-06-26 23:36:21	Dagmar	...but there were a couple of incidents where someone just wasn't thinking straight.  heh
2021-06-26 23:36:33	cskr	How can I find the number of rounds (value of -a) used to encrypt an existing ED25519 SSH private key file?
2021-06-26 23:36:54	Dagmar	cskr: Probably by reproducing the process and throwing some -vvv's in there
2021-06-26 23:37:06	Dagmar	It's not something that would be written into the key
2021-06-26 23:37:23	ayecee	cskr: value of -a for what command?
2021-06-26 23:37:33	cskr	ayecee, ssh-keygen
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2021-06-26 23:38:04	mlu	cskr: why'd you want to do that? I'd re-encrypt the private key file if I were you
2021-06-26 23:38:24	ayecee	okay, looks like that's not connected to the ED25519 part, seems to be a separate thing
2021-06-26 23:38:50	cskr	mlu, did that, but curious to know if there is a way.
2021-06-26 23:39:02	mlu	practically, what Dagmar suggested
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2021-06-26 23:39:30	ayecee	i think that would have to be in the file
2021-06-26 23:40:02	ayecee	the thing verifying your passphrase has to know how many rounds to do
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2021-06-26 23:41:24	Dagmar	This is anotehr one of those "but I really really need a 16384-bit key" things
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2021-06-26 23:41:57	mlu	Dagmar: it creates dramatic effect when you decrypt the file
2021-06-26 23:42:04	ayecee	looks like it's there, https://coolaj86.com/articles/the-openssh-private-key-format/
2021-06-26 23:42:25	ayecee	but you'd need to decode the base64 and then pop out the relevant bits
2021-06-26 23:42:31	Dagmar	It's also about as relevant to the user as whether or not there's an 8 in the key somewher
2021-06-26 23:42:34	 *	mlu proceeds to share a paste of the decrypted key in pastebin
2021-06-26 23:42:50	mlu	<btw: don't do that -- you just compromised the key, for those who aren't in on the joke>
2021-06-26 23:43:11	Dagmar	mlu: It never gets old seeing someone email me their private key
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2021-06-26 23:45:07	Dagmar	I really should have responded to that by going ahead and deploying it, but setting a forcedcommand on their key that just spools them a text file explaining why the private key needs to be kept private
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2021-06-26 23:45:45	Dagmar	Someone would have complained to HR I'm sure
2021-06-26 23:46:13	mlu	that would have been funny
2021-06-26 23:46:22	mlu	but then again, it's usually HR that does that stuff in my org
2021-06-26 23:46:23	cskr	Dagmar, tried passing -vvvv to ssh, but that did not print number of rounds anywhere. Will try decoding the key file instead. Thanks.
2021-06-26 23:46:25	Gaffoonie	Would that be a full agression or micro agression at that point?
2021-06-26 23:46:43	Dagmar	Considering that I don't even "do" passive-aggressive?  Heh
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2021-06-26 23:46:50	mlu	then again, if I just talk to them, they're usually careful about not repeating that said mistake
2021-06-26 23:46:57	Dagmar	One of those people was a member of the _network security team_
2021-06-26 23:47:47	mlu	it's funny since i'm the founder of a company but also do the netadmin side (only have budget to justify one sysadmin other than myself, and I happen to have the skills)
2021-06-26 23:47:50	Dagmar	What exactly is the correct response to that kind of buggery?
2021-06-26 23:48:07	mlu	it's an upstream effort to say "no, I shouldn't have your password -- I can gain access without it should I ever have a legitimate reason to need access)
2021-06-26 23:48:20	Dagmar	Maybe ask them what it's like now that they're no longer working in the cafeteria?
2021-06-26 23:48:20	mlu	Dagmar: I hope that person's boss knows better
2021-06-26 23:48:50	Dagmar	mlu: Yeah the guy who ran the department was sharp enough to be scared of me (*giggle*) and there were two guys who weren't shabby at all
2021-06-26 23:48:53	Dagmar	The rest... *sigh*
2021-06-26 23:49:43	twainwek	"Ships in 4+ Months. Shipping delay due to COVID-19 global pandemic" .... LOL WHAT
2021-06-26 23:49:52	Dagmar	Wow
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2021-06-26 23:49:56	twainwek	wtf would i place an order if it's not even going to be shipped in 4 months
2021-06-26 23:50:00	Dagmar	That's the biggest delay yet
2021-06-26 23:50:10	Dagmar	Pi's are like 20 weeks out
2021-06-26 23:50:11	Psi-Jack	Sheash! That is horrible.
2021-06-26 23:50:14	twainwek	https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x1/X1-Carbon-G9/p/22TP2X1X1C9
2021-06-26 23:50:26	Dagmar	Yeah that's a parts shortage
2021-06-26 23:50:28	twainwek	they're all listed as "4+ months"
2021-06-26 23:50:37	Dagmar	Dell's no better
2021-06-26 23:50:51	twainwek	no i can order a dell for end of week delivery
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2021-06-26 23:50:59	Dagmar	We just started telling folks this week all upgrades/lifecycles are on hold so don't break anything
2021-06-26 23:51:00	<--	CodeSpelunker (~CodeSpelu@user/codespelunker) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-26 23:51:06	mlu	Dagmar: my condolences -- I'm amazed at the people that have the patience to last in a university/hospital-type sysadmin envrionment
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2021-06-26 23:51:19	Dagmar	mlu: I liked that it was a source of interesting problems.
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2021-06-26 23:51:30	Dagmar	mlu: For sure I wasn't styaing there for the money
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2021-06-26 23:51:52	mlu	in my experience, the range of talent was mixed
2021-06-26 23:52:03	mlu	i.e. some were extremely sharp and others were dull
2021-06-26 23:52:13	hamtrax	Gaaaaah I hate this TV
2021-06-26 23:52:30	Dagmar	Any given week I'd be chasing down some SMTP insanity, unraveling what someone Romania did to a dept's wordpress blog, helping someone import mouse DNA into a postgres db..
2021-06-26 23:53:03	Dagmar	If I jsut sat there and read Splunk logs all day like some people i would be ready to play in interstate traffic
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2021-06-26 23:53:45	Dagmar	Thanks to the pandemic it looks like I've got a couple of _months_ to refactor hte way we're building out Pis at this new job
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2021-06-26 23:54:11	Dagmar	Flashing microsd cards is chump work, and it looks liek they'll do PXE out of the box now
2021-06-26 23:54:12	hamtrax	F is for Fedora, because why not
2021-06-26 23:54:17	mlu	Dagmar: OAuth vs CAS -- got a prerference?
2021-06-26 23:54:18	Dagmar	THat solves a lot of problems
2021-06-26 23:54:43	Dagmar	mlu: No, I try and avoid those entirely because their docs are written for people who speak "frameworks"
2021-06-26 23:55:10	Dagmar	Tell me which numbers get stuck together and point me in the direction of where the math part is explained and I can build something with a quickness
2021-06-26 23:55:39	Dagmar	Tell me "make the magic API call with the magic number that was mentioned elsewhere and we shall not speak of error states" and I'm going to keep walking
2021-06-26 23:55:56	mlu	back in my university IT days, I got quite used to handling login integrations, DNS setup, etc.
2021-06-26 23:56:14	Dagmar	DNS I'm completely fine with
2021-06-26 23:56:19	gry	Dagmar: you avoid oauth ?
2021-06-26 23:56:33	Dagmar	gry: As far as building somethign that uses it goes, yes
2021-06-26 23:56:57	gry	mlu: what os did the university use ?
2021-06-26 23:57:01	Dagmar	I have very few cases in my stuff where the usage model involves _someone else_ handling authentication
2021-06-26 23:57:33	Dagmar	...and lately I'm working within an AD environment so that's just LDAP basically
2021-06-26 23:58:05	Dagmar	i.e. this is something you just offload to Apache and be done with it
2021-06-26 23:58:09	mlu	gry: several OSes -- this was in 2010 and it was mostly RHEL5 and FreeBSD 7.2
2021-06-26 23:58:41	mlu	there were also lots of Solaris systems on the network that I didn't deal with too much
2021-06-26 23:58:59	Dagmar	gry: If it tells you anything, I am literally in the middle of scribbling up something that uses openssl and stunnel to directly generate trust pairs
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2021-06-26 23:59:54	mlu	OAuth is a horrible user experience unless your stuff is all in the web browser anyways
2021-06-27 00:00:21	mlu	if you have customized software, etc., Kerberos works very well
2021-06-27 00:00:30	Dagmar	Wellll...
2021-06-27 00:00:36	Dagmar	It's still Kerberos
2021-06-27 00:00:43	mlu	also, CAS has been a favorite of universities -- little simpler than OAuth when you need user profile information
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2021-06-27 00:01:07	Dagmar	It's got features and it works but it's also about as pleasant as carrying caltrops in the ol' prison wallet
2021-06-27 00:01:12	mlu	I actually see refreshing simplicity when I see Kerberos as compared to OAuth2 or CAS
2021-06-27 00:01:22	mlu	federated authentication is expensive
2021-06-27 00:01:31	mlu	** complicated
2021-06-27 00:01:34	gry	Dagmar: sounds advanced
2021-06-27 00:01:35	Dagmar	heeh
2021-06-27 00:02:04	Dagmar	gry: Well, one of the little-used features is nifty.  You can revoke a ticket and basically force someone completely off hte whole network... IF people bothered to implement that correctly
2021-06-27 00:02:22	mlu	only some OAuth providers allow you to revoke tokens
2021-06-27 00:02:40	<--	hendursaga (~weechat@user/hendursaga) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 00:02:49	Dagmar	...and for a while if you were MIcrosoft, apparently users could generate a ticket that would never expire, as well as occasionally generate a ticket thats' valid everywhere
2021-06-27 00:02:53	Dagmar	Wasn't that nice?
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2021-06-27 00:03:12	mlu	it's one of those things where unless you're designing or building the system, you never need to deal with more than a small sliver of at a time
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2021-06-27 00:03:18	Dagmar	That's true
2021-06-27 00:03:58	Dagmar	Although when things would go wrong I always had the sense it was because I needed to sacrifice more goats
2021-06-27 00:04:18	Dagmar	LIke, why or how did that tgt manage to expire?  Who knows
2021-06-27 00:04:18	mlu	and that is where you bribe the faternities to steal a goat? :P
2021-06-27 00:04:51	hamtrax	See, that's your problem
2021-06-27 00:05:09	hamtrax	You've got a missing zoological dependency
2021-06-27 00:05:21	Dagmar	If I wanted to sacrifice goats I would have been pushing for them to switch to Radius
2021-06-27 00:05:22	mlu	boink!
2021-06-27 00:05:34	hamtrax	You're sacrificing all these goats when it's really turtles all the way down
2021-06-27 00:05:36	mlu	AAAaaaaa!
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2021-06-27 00:26:30	sudomann	What is a "Lead Foundations Engineer"?
2021-06-27 00:26:36	<--	jdmark (~jdmark@67.8.137.130) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-27 00:28:07	mlu	sudomann: not a wooden foundations engineer
2021-06-27 00:29:07	sudomann	The stuff i found online was all in reference to construction lol
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2021-06-27 00:29:26	sudomann	I added "software development" to the query but no dice
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2021-06-27 00:29:58	sudomann	I just started a job at a startup and that is the title of one of the employees lol
2021-06-27 00:31:00	c705	sounds like some bs
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2021-06-27 00:32:08	sudomann	lol
2021-06-27 00:32:51	sudomann	Said employee was very invovled in the interviewing process, soooo maybe its more of a manegrial role than engineering?
2021-06-27 00:32:58	sudomann	managerial*
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2021-06-27 00:33:35	sudomann	ayecee, hey i got that job  :D
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2021-06-27 00:34:22	sudomann	iirc it was you who decided to ruin my day by saying it was possible they already filled the role and were just interviewing me as a formality lol
2021-06-27 00:35:12	schillingklaus	c705 is an engineer par excellence, not a manager. The latter task is left to sauvin.
2021-06-27 00:36:30	Sauvin	I was also an engineer and had no tolerance for management bullshit.
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2021-06-27 00:38:47	sudomann	I imagine If i moved up over the years to a managment role, I would miss the technical stuff
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2021-06-27 00:49:40	jim	nnnnnnnn
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2021-06-27 00:50:53	schillingklaus	sudo man nn
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2021-06-27 00:53:01	sudomannn	dun dun duuuunnn
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2021-06-27 00:53:29	--	sudomannn is now known as sudomann
2021-06-27 00:53:49	sudomann	Still annoyed someone beat me to taking sudoman on Libera.chat :(
2021-06-27 00:53:51	--	jim is now known as jimm
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2021-06-27 00:54:49	jimm	oh wait...
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2021-06-27 00:55:48	Kyv	there is always the vanity license plate
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2021-06-27 00:56:43	Kyv	or hiring a 'maid' to call you sudoman
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2021-06-27 01:04:40	Swift110-mobile_	Hey
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2021-06-27 01:05:49	rindolf	Swift110-mobile_: meow
2021-06-27 01:06:00	rindolf	Swift110-mobile_: sup?
2021-06-27 01:06:27	Swift110-mobile_	How r u rindolf
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2021-06-27 01:07:12	schillingklaus	reindeer don't meow
2021-06-27 01:07:44	rindolf	Swift110-mobile_: released a new version of https://github.com/shlomif/fiction-xml
2021-06-27 01:08:01	Kyv	hes not rudolph
2021-06-27 01:08:03	Sauvin	!ops Zz
2021-06-27 01:08:44	schillingklaus	does fiction-xml still fail to support footnotes?
2021-06-27 01:09:05	rindolf	schillingklaus: i have many forms: https://github.com/shlomif/fiction-xml
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2021-06-27 01:09:41	rindolf	i mean https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/
2021-06-27 01:10:17	rindolf	schillingklaus: i think so
2021-06-27 01:10:29	Swift110-mobile_	Oh
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2021-06-27 01:14:12	sudomann	Kyv, luckily I grabbed the name for my license plate haha
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2021-06-27 01:19:12	Swift110-mobile_	Ok
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2021-06-27 01:26:12	no_gravity	Good Morning! I want to backup a bunch of files over the ssh so they arrive compressed on the local machine. Any ideas how to do about this?
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2021-06-27 01:27:11	Sauvin	Think I'd set up an sshfs and zip them up to a file on the remote.
2021-06-27 01:29:30	jim	no_gravity, if you're looking for a -backup- solution, you might look at borg backup
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2021-06-27 01:30:05	jim	it's CLI, and it takes a bit of learning... I think it's worth it
2021-06-27 01:30:21	no_gravity	Sauvin: That would be a solution. I wonder if there is a leaner way. sshfs probably has some overhead. And the files are pretty big.
2021-06-27 01:30:22	schillingklaus	cli is always worth it
2021-06-27 01:30:40	no_gravity	jim: I want to use only very basic shell tools.
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2021-06-27 01:30:49	jim	oh, ok
2021-06-27 01:30:57	no_gravity	jim: Nothiing that isn't installed by default in a typical Debian machine.
2021-06-27 01:31:31	jim	that would include tar... but ssh server and client, you might have to install
2021-06-27 01:32:07	no_gravity	jim: ssh and sshd are both already there. So that is not a problem.
2021-06-27 01:32:07	jim	would a compressed tarball be ok? (wouldn't include compressed individual files)
2021-06-27 01:32:24	Sauvin	no_gravity, the files "as they arrive", they're arriving on the local, or are they arriving on the remote?
2021-06-27 01:32:27	no_gravity	jim: How do you mean "wouldn't include compressed individual files"?
2021-06-27 01:32:42	no_gravity	Sauvin: Arriving on the local.
2021-06-27 01:33:00	Sauvin	So you want to up them compressed to the remote, and you want the compression to happen on the local?
2021-06-27 01:33:02	no_gravity	scp would probably already solve it except for the local copies not being compressed.
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2021-06-27 01:33:26	no_gravity	Sauvin: I want them to be stored compressed on the local.
2021-06-27 01:33:43	no_gravity	Sauvin: The uncompressed files already are on the remote.
2021-06-27 01:33:45	jim	no_gravity, well, say you have a dir called dir, and files f1, f2, f3, and you wanted to back up dir... you could tar cfz dir.tar.gz dir
2021-06-27 01:33:50	Sauvin	Compress them on the local and then use ssh or related tool to move them to the remote?
2021-06-27 01:34:29	no_gravity	jim: The command would have to start with "ssh ..." as I am on the local machine.
2021-06-27 01:34:44	jim	no_gravity, and you'd get a -compressed- tarball, but one that represents -uncompressed- dir/f1, dir/f2. dir/f3
2021-06-27 01:34:45	no_gravity	Sauvin: The files *are* on the remote.
2021-06-27 01:35:10	Sauvin	So the files are *arriving* on the remote?
2021-06-27 01:35:29	schillingklaus	does systemd, on a typical debian, not yet come with its own backup thing?
2021-06-27 01:35:31	no_gravity	Sauvin: The files *are* on the remote.
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2021-06-27 01:35:53	Sauvin	Mmkay... if you don't like sshfs, how do you feel about incrond?
2021-06-27 01:36:17	no_gravity	jim: It would be even nicer if the files arrized as individual zips or gz files.
2021-06-27 01:36:25	no_gravity	jim: But a tar would be ok
2021-06-27 01:36:25	jim	schillingklaus, you mean backups scheduled by a systemd service?
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2021-06-27 01:36:37	no_gravity	jim: How would the whole command look like to transfer them as a tar?
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2021-06-27 01:36:54	Psi-Jack	Backup talk?
2021-06-27 01:37:05	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: Yeah :)
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2021-06-27 01:37:16	Psi-Jack	borgmatic + borgbackup.
2021-06-27 01:37:19	Psi-Jack	Problem solved. :)
2021-06-27 01:37:25	schillingklaus	jim: probably, as systemd does everything in units and services
2021-06-27 01:37:25	jim	yeah, he wants to use basic tools, already suggested borg
2021-06-27 01:37:33	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: I only want basic linux tools.
2021-06-27 01:37:36	Psi-Jack	Fool's errand.
2021-06-27 01:37:41	Psi-Jack	Move along.
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2021-06-27 01:37:44	no_gravity	rsync/tar/ssh etc are fine.
2021-06-27 01:38:04	jim	schillingklaus, I don't know of one that -comes with- a dist or with the systemd on the dist
2021-06-27 01:38:59	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 01:39:19	no_gravity	Something like this: ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" | cat > backup.tar
2021-06-27 01:39:29	jim	schillingklaus, you'd have to make the unit files yourself (as far as I know)
2021-06-27 01:39:38	Psi-Jack	And WHY do you want to re-invent the wheel so blindly and foolishly?
2021-06-27 01:39:43	no_gravity	But that is only guess :) Anybody in the know who knows if that command is wrong?
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2021-06-27 01:40:11	schillingklaus	cpio was used a lot for backup in the nineties
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2021-06-27 01:40:47	jim	no_gravity, tar z means that the tarball (not the individual files) is compressed by gzip (gzip is not the only choice)
2021-06-27 01:41:15	no_gravity	jim: Yes, sounds good to me.
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2021-06-27 01:41:33	no_gravity	The "| cat > backup.tar" is probably nonsense.
2021-06-27 01:41:40	jim	so then you'd have a compressed tarball... that ok?
2021-06-27 01:41:50	Sauvin	Pis-Jack, sometisme people have to wrok with minilma installs. Quit being so goddanm sractatsic.
2021-06-27 01:42:02	no_gravity	jim: That is at least a solution.
2021-06-27 01:42:14	jim	I like to wrok!
2021-06-27 01:42:21	Psi-Jack	I won't be so pedantic, never will that happen, but when someone wants to do something badly, I want to correct their inferior thinking.
2021-06-27 01:42:27	no_gravity	How about this? ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" > backup.tar
2021-06-27 01:42:34	Psi-Jack	won't be LESS pedantic, that i.s :p
2021-06-27 01:42:45	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: Your negativity is too much for me.
2021-06-27 01:42:48	Psi-Jack	So, why the frack do you want to do this horrible crap?
2021-06-27 01:42:53	Psi-Jack	Seriously.
2021-06-27 01:42:58	Sauvin	Pis-Jcak, that iknd of thiknig is hwta gto you baned last tmei.
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2021-06-27 01:43:03	jim	no_gravity, and, what I thought you wanted, was to compress the individual files, then make a tar from those?
2021-06-27 01:43:23	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: If you continue with that, I will have to put you into my ignore file.
2021-06-27 01:43:27	Psi-Jack	Do it.
2021-06-27 01:43:29	jim	you can do that, just take a couple more commands
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2021-06-27 01:43:33	no_gravity	jim: That would be even better.
2021-06-27 01:44:02	jim	are they all the files in a particular dir?
2021-06-27 01:44:05	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: Well, I try to be as cooperative as possible on IRC. But negativity is bad for the mood of everybody.
2021-06-27 01:44:06	Psi-Jack	i want to actually HELP people not, lead them on a horrible path of self destruction.
2021-06-27 01:44:16	no_gravity	jim: No, only *.type1 and *.type2
2021-06-27 01:44:24	Psi-Jack	And backups, well, backups are 100% important.
2021-06-27 01:44:27	Psi-Jack	GOOD backups.
2021-06-27 01:44:56	Sauvin	smtimes just gtota wokr with waht you got.
2021-06-27 01:44:59	jim	in any dir?
2021-06-27 01:45:05	no_gravity	jim: In that one dir.
2021-06-27 01:45:26	<--	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 01:45:36	Psi-Jack	In Linux, you got /everything/.
2021-06-27 01:45:37	Psi-Jack	Period.
2021-06-27 01:46:08	Sauvin	minmla debian istall?
2021-06-27 01:46:18	Psi-Jack	No backup needed, because, nothing's there.
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2021-06-27 01:46:23	Psi-Jack	Next?
2021-06-27 01:46:54	Sauvin	Attude nver goan change,m is it?
2021-06-27 01:46:55	no_gravity	Psi-Jack: I will ignore you now. I delete my ignore file every 3 months or so. See you on the other side.
2021-06-27 01:47:11	Psi-Jack	Nah, I never delete mine. :p
2021-06-27 01:47:26	jim	ok... what about this (partial solution (aka more to come)): find /that/dir -type f -name *.type1 -exec gzip {} \;
2021-06-27 01:48:15	jim	Psi-Jack, yeah, please don't beat up the people :)
2021-06-27 01:48:18	no_gravity	jim: The command has to start with "ssh ..." as I am on the local machine and the files are on the remote.
2021-06-27 01:48:23	<--	reset (~reset@user/reset) has quit (Quit: reset)
2021-06-27 01:48:33	Psi-Jack	Again: I just want to HELP people not lead them down a horrible path.
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2021-06-27 01:49:09	Psi-Jack	That's a huge difference from just blindly leading someone, than giving REAL actual help, and knowing when to say NO!
2021-06-27 01:49:23	jim	yeah the path may be unpalletable, but it's what he says he wants... maybe we can also get him to use borg later
2021-06-27 01:49:34	Psi-Jack	Again, learn to say NO
2021-06-27 01:49:55	<--	nekobyte (~nekobyte@user/nekobit) has quit (Quit: nekosleep)
2021-06-27 01:49:56	jim	and, learn to say yes :)
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2021-06-27 01:50:28	no_gravity	So far my best guess is: ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" > backup.tar
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2021-06-27 01:50:48	jim	a "no" in this case, is as if you're saying "I don't think this is a good idea KA POWWWWW!"
2021-06-27 01:50:50	no_gravity	Not sure if "tar zc" accepts those wildcards?
2021-06-27 01:51:22	jim	we can make something that works
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2021-06-27 01:51:56	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-06-27 01:51:56	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:psi-jack] by litharge
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2021-06-27 01:52:06	jim	while we're making it, it may involve multiple ssh calls
2021-06-27 01:52:06	--	Mode #linux [-o litharge] by litharge
2021-06-27 01:52:20	schillingklaus	"no" sar&agrave; la verit&agrave; a non tacere mai, a non scappare mai.
2021-06-27 01:52:29	no_gravity	jim: If it gets too complicated, I prefer the simpler command that puts it all into one tar.
2021-06-27 01:52:46	jim	so it's not just gonna be one
2021-06-27 01:52:54	Sauvin	schillingklaus, what wsa that
2021-06-27 01:53:14	schillingklaus	from a song from 1993
2021-06-27 01:53:16	jim	I'm still not quite sure what you want yet...
2021-06-27 01:53:27	sheep	italian with badly escaped html accents
2021-06-27 01:53:56	no_gravity	Ha, tar seems to accept those wildcards :)
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2021-06-27 01:54:11	no_gravity	I could tar and recover some local test files like that just fine.
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2021-06-27 01:55:14	jim	so, what if you: compress each individual file whose name ends in .type1 or .type2 in the dir "dir/", and then make a tarball of all of the "dir" dir?
2021-06-27 01:55:15	<--	xnbq (~xnbq@user/xnbq) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 01:55:20	ayecee	bash accepts the wildcards and turns them into a list of files for tar
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2021-06-27 01:55:49	no_gravity	jim: That would create additional files on the remote. And since the files are very large it will exceed the disk space.
2021-06-27 01:56:27	no_gravity	jim: This is for a large AI system that uses the machines resources to the max. So there will not be space to create new files.
2021-06-27 01:56:34	jim	the additional file being the tarball?
2021-06-27 01:57:11	Sauvin	ho large are the filse and how much dsik spaec do yuo have?
2021-06-27 01:57:37	no_gravity	jim: Your "compress each individual file" sounds like it creates new files on the remote. Would need to see the command to know for sure.
2021-06-27 01:58:07	no_gravity	Sauvin: The files are growing until they max out the disk. That is how the system learns. So the backup solution will have to not create additional files.
2021-06-27 01:58:23	jim	ok, so then you need a way to "cat" the files into a compressor, which then sends the files over the ssh connection, and locally you'd make a tarball out of the files you get?
2021-06-27 01:58:49	no_gravity	jim: This is my current approach: ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" > backup.tar
2021-06-27 01:59:13	Sauvin	"laerns"?
2021-06-27 01:59:23	jim	you might want just tar c
2021-06-27 01:59:32	no_gravity	jim: Better to talk in code. Less ambigiuty.
2021-06-27 01:59:39	jim	tar zc will make a tarball and compress it
2021-06-27 01:59:53	no_gravity	jim: Compression is good.
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2021-06-27 02:00:07	jim	if you want to do that, then: > backup.tar.gz
2021-06-27 02:00:14	no_gravity	jim: Good point.
2021-06-27 02:00:31	no_gravity	So now we have: ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" > backup.tar.gz
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2021-06-27 02:01:30	jim	yeah... you might want to test that, run it, see if it runs at all, then test the file you getr
2021-06-27 02:01:46	jim	(the backup.tar.gz)
2021-06-27 02:01:51	no_gravity	Yeah
2021-06-27 02:02:08	Sauvin	test no a samll file
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2021-06-27 02:02:23	 *	no_gravity rolls up sleeves
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2021-06-27 02:02:44	jim	you might want to run the tar as: tar zcf - *.type1 *.type2
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2021-06-27 02:03:06	no_gravity	jim: Why?
2021-06-27 02:03:36	jim	some tars don't send tar stream over stdin or stdout by defauilt
2021-06-27 02:03:55	jim	(so that gets you some portability)
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2021-06-27 02:04:17	no_gravity	I don't need portability :)
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2021-06-27 02:04:45	jim	so you'll always be using (I guess) gnu tar?
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2021-06-27 02:05:03	no_gravity	Yup. Unless Debian switches to something else.
2021-06-27 02:05:24	jim	original tars, if you don't specify the tar filename, will send to a tape device
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2021-06-27 02:05:51	jim	it was only more recently that tar sends over stdout by default
2021-06-27 02:06:49	jim	no_gravity, well, debian switching to something else, is exactly why you might need portability
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2021-06-27 02:07:17	no_gravity	jim: If it happens, I will dabble with it then. If this project is still alive then.
2021-06-27 02:07:20	Sauvin	Dont hold yuor berath.
2021-06-27 02:07:56	jim	(and, you still might want to look into borg... it does remote backups)
2021-06-27 02:08:29	jim	it solves a LOT of the problems we just discussed)
2021-06-27 02:08:39	no_gravity	jim: What problem is left?
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2021-06-27 02:08:55	no_gravity	This looks pretty simple and solid to me: ssh host "cd /path; tar zc *.type1 *.type2" > backup.tar.gz
2021-06-27 02:08:56	jim	I don't think any are
2021-06-27 02:09:20	no_gravity	Chances those tools will change and cause are much smaller then some higher level tool changing.
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2021-06-27 02:09:37	no_gravity	Chances those tools will change and cause *problems* are much smaller then some higher level tool changing.
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2021-06-27 02:10:41	jim	ok... I'm just saying... you might still look into it, for this or future projects
2021-06-27 02:11:08	no_gravity	jim: In my experience, the less tools you use, the less maintenance you have in the future.
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2021-06-27 02:11:25	Sauvin	debian chagnes tools baout as ofetn as a kenutckian cahgnes sokcs.
2021-06-27 02:11:34	jim	and I'm not gonna argue with your experience
2021-06-27 02:11:56	no_gravity	Sauvin: rdiff-backup just recently changed their protocol from version to version and broke all interaction between machines with different versions.
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2021-06-27 02:12:21	no_gravity	Pretty deadly for individuals and organizations with more then a hand full of machines.
2021-06-27 02:12:37	Sauvin	thats rdiff dan not dbeian
2021-06-27 02:12:43	jim	Sauvin, just asking, is there a problem with your keyboard? I see consistant misspellings
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2021-06-27 02:13:22	Sauvin	mabye dint put enuohg orange jiuce in my vdoka
2021-06-27 02:13:44	jim	ohh allrightey then :)
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2021-06-27 02:14:06	node1	When i run my Linux virtual machine, for longer hours. I can see the time it has is not in the current state. What/how to make my vm time in current state.?
2021-06-27 02:14:16	Sauvin	not hardwear probelm thsi is "level 8".
2021-06-27 02:14:38	Sauvin	ro is that "elvel 9"
2021-06-27 02:15:00	no_gravity	Sauvin: borg is not written by Debian themselfes either. And it is much younger then rdiff-backup. So I would not touch it for another 20 years :)
2021-06-27 02:15:20	jim	node1, do you mean you want your "date" to be accurate in the vm?
2021-06-27 02:15:28	no_gravity	rdiff-backup decided to wrack havoc after 20 years of being a nice stable backup solution.
2021-06-27 02:15:44	node1	jim, yes.
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2021-06-27 02:16:08	jim	node1, howbout running ntp in the vm?
2021-06-27 02:16:18	Sauvin	wihc vitrualsier?
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2021-06-27 02:16:49	node1	Yes apart anyother things we can do in vm?
2021-06-27 02:17:04	no_gravity	The gzipped tar over ssh backup is running ...
2021-06-27 02:17:15	Sauvin	wihc vitrualsier?
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2021-06-27 02:18:40	jim	well one thing you can do, is run ntp in the host, and configure it to be a client of some accurate network time setup on the net, and the vm would run ntp configured to be a client of the host... that way, you don't connect to some external ntp setup twice
2021-06-27 02:19:21	jim	node1, are you using vbox? or qemu/kvm? or something else?
2021-06-27 02:20:13	Sauvin	and what host
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2021-06-27 02:20:55	jim	Sauvin, what did you want to know about the host?
2021-06-27 02:21:08	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 02:21:29	Sauvin	if host is Wnidows might be differnet things to do
2021-06-27 02:21:40	jim	oh I see
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2021-06-27 02:24:08	tusko	the world really went through a lot in 2020
2021-06-27 02:24:39	Sauvin	sepnt it all caged up
2021-06-27 02:24:50	tusko	Microsoft taking down youtube-dl, srsly
2021-06-27 02:25:09	<--	sm0rux (~sm0rux@user/sm0rux) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-27 02:25:11	tusko	5.8
2021-06-27 02:25:13	raccoon_dog	Wait, what?
2021-06-27 02:25:16	Sauvin	tusko, "seriously" not "srsly"
2021-06-27 02:25:26	iflema	s/through/backward
2021-06-27 02:25:32	tusko	nah, seriously. 2020 was a rough one
2021-06-27 02:25:48	raccoon_dog	Oh, you mean the RIAA thing back in 2020.
2021-06-27 02:25:48	Sauvin	farkin a
2021-06-27 02:25:56	tusko	RedHat basically killed CentOS
2021-06-27 02:26:01	raccoon_dog	I thought you meant MS were targeting them *now*.
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2021-06-27 02:27:04	Sauvin	https://itsfoss.com/youtube-dl-github-takedown/
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2021-06-27 02:29:16	tusko	2020, the most difficult year in a long time.
2021-06-27 02:29:23	tusko	Just consider... global cloud market is now over $100-billion a year. 90% of it runs on Linux. Even on Microsoft Azure, more than half of all VMs are Linux.
2021-06-27 02:29:37	tusko	2020
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2021-06-27 02:30:43	iflema	VM's hoo, good god yourll what are they good for
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2021-06-27 02:52:00	Helmholtz	What exactly happens on `cat /sys/class/net/wlp3s0/operstate`? I mean what system calls are invoked? How to trace?
2021-06-27 02:52:35	-->	Humming (~Humming@184.22.166.208) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 02:53:16	lacroix	Helmholtz, read Documentation/networking/operstates.txt
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2021-06-27 02:53:35	lacroix	https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/operstates.txt
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2021-06-27 02:54:24	Helmholtz	lacroix: nice. Why in linux some config stuff are stored as files?
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2021-06-27 02:54:34	Helmholtz	What process fills them?
2021-06-27 02:54:40	<--	thurs (~thurs@ip68-225-209-147.ph.ph.cox.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-27 02:54:50	sheep	those aren't real files
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2021-06-27 02:55:04	Helmholtz	I mean weird addresses like /sys/class or /proc/
2021-06-27 02:55:32	sheep	they're part of sysfs, which appears like a filesystem but it's not backed by a disk, and the files are implemented by functions in the kernel
2021-06-27 02:55:55	Sauvin	virtual filesystem
2021-06-27 02:56:50	Helmholtz	sheep: How does the kernel update them without user knowing? Can see the process in htop?
2021-06-27 02:56:55	Helmholtz	What is update frequency?
2021-06-27 02:57:04	sheep	it's not a process
2021-06-27 02:57:06	<--	Humming (~Humming@184.22.166.208) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 02:57:17	sheep	there are no updates. The kernel produces the content right when you read it
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2021-06-27 02:57:48	Helmholtz	so the cat command is overridden to work on files and "function calls"?
2021-06-27 02:58:02	sheep	no, it uses the same read system call that everything else does
2021-06-27 02:58:16	sheep	but the kernel itself has special handling for opening virtual files like this
2021-06-27 02:58:38	Helmholtz	Is it just Linux that is like this? What about windows/openBSD?
2021-06-27 02:59:16	sheep	all unixes are like this with things like /dev nodes
2021-06-27 02:59:25	sheep	windows also has some virtual files
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2021-06-27 02:59:30	Sauvin	think windows not, ask in a bds channel if they haev it
2021-06-27 02:59:40	Helmholtz	If I strace cat /sys/class/net/wlp3s0/operstate, I should see a kernel function somewhere
2021-06-27 02:59:41	Helmholtz	?
2021-06-27 02:59:50	sheep	no. strace just traces system calls
2021-06-27 03:00:06	sheep	you would just see calls to read or similar functions that are also used for regular files
2021-06-27 03:00:25	sheep	I think you would need a kernel debugger to trace what is actually happening
2021-06-27 03:00:34	sheep	or look at the linux source code
2021-06-27 03:00:43	Helmholtz	so linux has a read_file function, which in it, behavious differently for virtual files
2021-06-27 03:01:13	sheep	it also does different things for each real filesystem
2021-06-27 03:01:34	Sauvin	Helmholtz, linux can have many filesystems at tthe same time mounted yes?
2021-06-27 03:01:44	Helmholtz	And Linux has written all these stuff by himself in the 90s?
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2021-06-27 03:02:00	Helmholtz	*Linus
2021-06-27 03:02:24	<--	lad_ (~lad@user/lad) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-27 03:02:25	sheep	he wrote some of it, but most of it was written by other developers
2021-06-27 03:03:06	Sauvin	a filesystem on linuux has many layers
2021-06-27 03:03:27	Sauvin	kernel sticks something in one of them
2021-06-27 03:03:44	Helmholtz	Is there a general purpose RTOS?
2021-06-27 03:04:00	<--	lord| (~lordpipe@user/lordpipe) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 03:04:09	Helmholtz	Is there a formally verfied OS?
2021-06-27 03:04:19	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-27 03:04:28	tomreyn	who will do my homework for me today?
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2021-06-27 03:05:44	Helmholtz	what kind of hw questions would that be?
2021-06-27 03:05:49	Helmholtz	yes/no
2021-06-27 03:06:25	Helmholtz	I know of some vxWorks but I don't know if it is as usable as linux
2021-06-27 03:06:25	tomreyn	i assumed you simplified theose questions. still, you're asking about is there this and that OS, and this channel is about #linux
2021-06-27 03:06:26	Helmholtz	And I
2021-06-27 03:06:31	Sauvin	hardwear qustions?
2021-06-27 03:06:47	-->	lord| (~lordpipe@user/lordpipe) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:07:02	Helmholtz	And I've heard of seL4 but I don't know if it has anything to do with linux
2021-06-27 03:07:48	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:09:04	DrEeevil	Helmholtz: no, L4 is an independent research microkernel
2021-06-27 03:09:51	DrEeevil	iirc it can run linux similarly to how VMs are run in e.g. qemu-kvm, but that's just one of the supported options and the use of linux is mostly accidental
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2021-06-27 03:11:22	tomreyn	they also have a website, nd a faq on it. both of which are easy to find, if you want to.
2021-06-27 03:11:29	tomreyn	*and
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2021-06-27 03:13:07	Helmholtz	https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/networking/operstates.rst
2021-06-27 03:13:07	Helmholtz	These stuff are written by paid engineers from corpos (like intel) right?
2021-06-27 03:13:22	Helmholtz	There are lots of RFCs and standards to adhere
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2021-06-27 03:16:19	Sauvin	your point?
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2021-06-27 03:39:31	Dr_Coke	jim!
2021-06-27 03:39:48	Dr_Coke	What the heck happened to freenode ##linux it said I was banned
2021-06-27 03:40:42	<--	a6a45081-2b83 (~aditya@122.163.205.132) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-27 03:41:07	--	menace is now known as Deknos
2021-06-27 03:41:09	TheLinuxNerd	Dr_Coke it moved here
2021-06-27 03:41:52	<--	death916 (~death916@user/death916) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 03:41:53	Deknos	sometimes i wish there is a mkdir parameter which jumps into a successfully created directory :(
2021-06-27 03:42:18	-->	takanakono (~ketanokit@91.193.5.42) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:42:23	Deknos	mkdir foobar && cd foobar vs mkdir --jump foobar... the last one would be so much better.. i cannot be the first one who's annoyed with this
2021-06-27 03:42:29	<--	pinPoint (~pinPoint@about/windows/staff/Pinpoint) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 03:42:33	Dr_Coke	TheLinuxNerd awesome
2021-06-27 03:42:44	Dr_Coke	TheLinuxNerd how can I register my nickname
2021-06-27 03:42:49	Dr_Coke	on this server
2021-06-27 03:43:32	Deknos	Dr_Coke, write "/msg nickserv help register"
2021-06-27 03:43:53	-->	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:920c:8a00::d995) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:44:05	Sauvin	when you get registered come back and well get you a cloak
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2021-06-27 03:45:30	mesaboogie	Dr_Coke: glad you made it
2021-06-27 03:45:33	-->	sozuba (~sozuba@user/sozuba) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:46:04	Dr_Coke	mesaboogie thanks for the update
2021-06-27 03:46:09	Dr_Coke	mesaboogie and help
2021-06-27 03:46:14	Sauvin	Dr_Coke, now join #libera-cloak
2021-06-27 03:46:15	-->	emilrwx (~emilrwx@dsl-tkubng12-54f955-62.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:46:16	mesaboogie	Dr_Coke: no worries.
2021-06-27 03:46:20	Dr_Coke	Deknos: it's cool I got registered
2021-06-27 03:46:38	Dr_Coke	Deknos: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-06-27 03:46:45	Dr_Coke	I googled and that came up
2021-06-27 03:46:53	Dr_Coke	Sauvin: ok
2021-06-27 03:47:12	<--	emilrwx (~emilrwx@dsl-tkubng12-54f955-62.dhcp.inet.fi) has quit (Client Quit)
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2021-06-27 03:47:46	Sauvin	now your butt got cloaked
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2021-06-27 03:47:52	Dr_Coke	Sauvin thanks
2021-06-27 03:48:03	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 03:48:14	Dr_Coke	Sauvin that's very helpful and important
2021-06-27 03:48:24	Sauvin	thought youd want that
2021-06-27 03:48:26	Dr_Coke	Sauvin: how did you know I had got cloaked
2021-06-27 03:48:32	-->	emilrwx (~emilrwx@dsl-tkubng12-54f955-62.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:48:34	Sauvin	i wtached
2021-06-27 03:48:48	Dr_Coke	Sauvin what was your nick in that room
2021-06-27 03:48:56	Sauvin	wasnt in that room
2021-06-27 03:49:01	Dr_Coke	Oh
2021-06-27 03:49:05	paulcarroty	it's laughable how you should care to cover ass in 2021's irc
2021-06-27 03:49:07	-->	pinPoint (~pinPoint@about/windows/staff/Pinpoint) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:49:28	Deknos	why?
2021-06-27 03:49:31	Deknos	it's optin
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2021-06-27 03:50:04	paulcarroty	it's must have now
2021-06-27 03:50:11	Sauvin	some people just like being carefl
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2021-06-27 03:50:38	Dr_Coke	I'll be right back
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2021-06-27 03:50:53	Deknos	well, the operators COULD create a parameter for register, which also automatically does the cloaking.. but either way, this only secures you against another users.. IRC operator still see where you come from
2021-06-27 03:51:03	Deknos	at least afaik
2021-06-27 03:51:06	paulcarroty	some old weirdos still crying how bad is https
2021-06-27 03:51:45	Deknos	there are usecases where https is not useful.
2021-06-27 03:51:56	Deknos	admit, these are edge cases, but they exist
2021-06-27 03:52:41	Deknos	like debian repositories, which tremendously use caching between source and destination and which are signed anyways.
2021-06-27 03:53:07	-->	Dr_Coke (~Dr_Coke@user/dr-coke/x-4006146) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 03:53:31	Dr_Coke	mesaboogie what version of linux are you running
2021-06-27 03:53:35	paulcarroty	`where https is not useful` if you don't care about all or just lazy ass
2021-06-27 03:53:37	-->	emilrwx (~emilrwx@dsl-tkubng12-54f955-62.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:53:50	Deknos	are you a troll?
2021-06-27 03:54:14	Sauvin	paulcarroty, we ha ve an offtopic channel. use it.
2021-06-27 03:54:20	Dr_Coke	Anyone see Windows 11 hardware requirements and how you need a tpm 2.0 module they screwed the start menu position and look and functionality
2021-06-27 03:54:36	Deknos	you do not need transport security if your content is cryptographically signed.
2021-06-27 03:54:37	Dr_Coke	What are Microsoft trying to do make Windows die?
2021-06-27 03:54:45	mesaboogie	Dr_Coke: Solus / Arch / MX-linux on my main 3 boxes.
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2021-06-27 03:55:05	-->	Ke1vin (~Ke1vin@101.85.204.107) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:55:12	paulcarroty	new start just copied from macOS, nothing screwed
2021-06-27 03:55:13	Dr_Coke	mesaboogie I'm still Linux Mint with Cinnamon
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2021-06-27 03:55:35	mesaboogie	good choice
2021-06-27 03:55:40	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty it looks nothing like macOS
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2021-06-27 03:56:02	paulcarroty	LOL, replace your glasses then
2021-06-27 03:56:16	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty my glasses are fine but yours aren't it seems
2021-06-27 03:56:35	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty what it looks like is a piece of dung
2021-06-27 03:56:43	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:56:50	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty and I'm not the only one who feels that way
2021-06-27 03:57:02	-->	thurs (~thurs@ip68-225-209-147.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:57:14	Sauvin	paulcarroty, Dr_Coke, get a room
2021-06-27 03:57:31	Dr_Coke	And why do you need a tpm 2.0 and a intel 8th cpu and up
2021-06-27 03:57:37	-->	LucaTM (~LucaTM@user/lucatm) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 03:57:46	Dr_Coke	Sauvin sorry
2021-06-27 03:58:12	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty and mesaboogie I'm done with Windows
2021-06-27 03:58:33	Thaurwylth	There's a wifi that I could connect to in May. No settings in the wifi have been changed. Now I can't connect to it anymore. The error is 'Couldn't get secrets' or something like that. I tried to remove it from the wifi list, reconnect, and insert password again. The password is correct. The wifi card works because it shows networks and it also shows the network in question. The password or security
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2021-06-27 03:58:39	Thaurwylth	business ...
2021-06-27 03:58:41	Thaurwylth	... is the only thing that doesn't work. What could be the reason?
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2021-06-27 04:01:04	Dr_Coke	Does anyone think with what Microsoft is doing with Windows 11 it could be the final nail in the coffin for it and a radical change and movement to Linux for a lot of people
2021-06-27 04:01:10	Dr_Coke	I sure hope so
2021-06-27 04:01:35	Sauvin	who cares we got our stuff
2021-06-27 04:02:19	Dr_Coke	Does wayland support fractional scaling in wine?
2021-06-27 04:03:37	paulcarroty	wayland wine driver isn't ready yet
2021-06-27 04:03:56	-->	boxelephant (~boxelepha@cpe-71-67-174-31.insight.res.rr.com) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 04:04:28	Dr_Coke	I have an issue at present where my login screen I'm assuming doesn't support it properly and also when I run starcraft 2 through lutris with wine that it doesn't fractional scale
2021-06-27 04:05:50	paulcarroty	heard gnome 40 got some scaling improvements, cinnamon is based on oooold gnome version, so wait
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2021-06-27 04:07:43	Dr_Coke	Ok thanks
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2021-06-27 04:10:27	jim	Dr_Coke, to avoid having to explain the drama, TheLinuxNerd's explanation is enough :) except, apparantly the "owner" of freenode is an evil racist that doesn't know how to deal with communities
2021-06-27 04:11:11	jim	essentially, he sent us on our way :)
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2021-06-27 04:12:57	Dr_Coke	jim serious
2021-06-27 04:13:06	jim	yeah
2021-06-27 04:13:13	Dr_Coke	jim When it said my nick was no longer registered
2021-06-27 04:13:22	Dr_Coke	and I was banned from #linux
2021-06-27 04:13:27	Dr_Coke	on freenode
2021-06-27 04:13:34	Dr_Coke	I thought oh no
2021-06-27 04:13:45	Dr_Coke	I must have said something about homosexuals I don't remember
2021-06-27 04:13:48	jim	most of us moved here
2021-06-27 04:13:48	<--	x00 (~x00@ool-44c1b49b.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 04:13:58	Dr_Coke	But then I thought
2021-06-27 04:13:59	-->	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:14:06	Dr_Coke	I don't remember doing that
2021-06-27 04:14:44	Dr_Coke	jim good to know it wasn't just me
2021-06-27 04:15:27	jim	the owner dude literally kicked everyone off of ##linux and then set the owner to himself
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2021-06-27 04:16:29	Dr_Coke	jim doesn't this guy like white people but surely we are not all white in here
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2021-06-27 04:19:52	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty you know I could have dealt with the hardware requirement to upgrade I just can't afford to do it right now for windows 11 but I can't deal with the changing of the start menu I also think this tpm 2.0 is sure way to track us
2021-06-27 04:20:16	-->	tesseract (~tesseract@user/tesseract) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:20:21	Dr_Coke	Because it makes your computer identifiable more I believe
2021-06-27 04:20:29	Dr_Coke	From what I read
2021-06-27 04:20:42	Dr_Coke	So these elites can track everything you do
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2021-06-27 04:21:23	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty If I have money at the end of the year and Apples new Mac Pro comes out
2021-06-27 04:21:28	Dr_Coke	I might buy it
2021-06-27 04:21:55	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty I will get the full mac experience not a half baked one
2021-06-27 04:22:01	jim	Dr_Coke, do you want to run macos?
2021-06-27 04:23:03	Dr_Coke	jim would you believe I have a 6700xt and it isn't supported only the 6800xt and 6900xt are presently but they are also handicapping it for intel machines now they want you to buy their apple chips
2021-06-27 04:23:26	<--	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 04:23:35	Dr_Coke	jim I believe Apple is tracking everything for the elites to
2021-06-27 04:23:47	-->	Feuermagier (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 04:24:02	Dr_Coke	From what I know about the latest macOS
2021-06-27 04:24:26	matsurago	I wonder why would anyone on #linux care about Windows 11 or Mac though
2021-06-27 04:24:37	Dr_Coke	Jim what I really want is for full fractional scaling
2021-06-27 04:24:41	Dr_Coke	in wine lutris
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2021-06-27 04:24:48	Dr_Coke	and everything linux
2021-06-27 04:25:06	Dr_Coke	And for the snap packages to become fast
2021-06-27 04:25:12	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-27 04:25:13	Dr_Coke	If they aren't already
2021-06-27 04:25:21	-->	EriC^^ (~Eric@94.187.3.34) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:25:37	Dr_Coke	And ledger-live to be in the ubuntu mint repos
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2021-06-27 04:25:43	paulcarroty	m1 is pretty cool, yeah
2021-06-27 04:26:01	paulcarroty	kicked intel&amd asses hard
2021-06-27 04:26:20	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty until ddr 5 comes out
2021-06-27 04:26:26	Dr_Coke	I would think
2021-06-27 04:26:34	Dr_Coke	That will make a big difference
2021-06-27 04:27:00	Dr_Coke	jim I also want to be a trillionare
2021-06-27 04:27:05	Dr_Coke	Billionare at least
2021-06-27 04:27:21	paulcarroty	intel now trying to buy sifive and play on riscv field 'cause x86 can't compete
2021-06-27 04:27:22	lacroix	Helmholtz: ad. sysfs and procfs, these are virtual files. Their content is only produced upon reading. Read please Documentation/filesystems/seq_file.rst
2021-06-27 04:27:32	-->	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:27:53	Dr_Coke	I will support myself and family with our needs and wants and the Catholic church and investments then I will donate to linux
2021-06-27 04:27:55	paulcarroty	ddr5 not fix cpu performance & power consuming
2021-06-27 04:28:01	Dr_Coke	every month or something
2021-06-27 04:28:18	paulcarroty	ok :)
2021-06-27 04:28:29	-->	ybaumy (~ybaumy@static.213.34.12.49.clients.your-server.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:28:43	Dr_Coke	I will buy Apple and get dividends
2021-06-27 04:28:56	Dr_Coke	and put them to develop linux or some money
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2021-06-27 04:29:30	Dr_Coke	paulcarroty but ddr5 should make a big difference
2021-06-27 04:29:51	-->	pinPoint (~pinPoint@about/windows/staff/Pinpoint) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:30:04	Dr_Coke	Buy Apple stock for dividends
2021-06-27 04:30:21	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 04:30:37	Dr_Coke	Linux Mint is a favorite of mine and also Pop OS
2021-06-27 04:31:29	Dr_Coke	But jim for now these are dreams
2021-06-27 04:31:49	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-27 04:32:52	paulcarroty	well, I've tried Apple experience, on desktop&mobile. Works really good, but .. it kills my hacker spirit with their stupid walled garden. So I've sold all devices :)
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2021-06-27 04:34:01	Dr_Coke	jim and paulcarroty
2021-06-27 04:34:15	Dr_Coke	I would also like a degoogled Android version
2021-06-27 04:34:27	Dr_Coke	That would be sold by a company on their phones
2021-06-27 04:34:42	Dr_Coke	with updates for at least 7 years maybe 10 years
2021-06-27 04:34:47	Dr_Coke	10 would be better
2021-06-27 04:35:14	rapha	the heck
2021-06-27 04:35:16	Dr_Coke	But that degoogled Android would be just as good as Googles Android
2021-06-27 04:35:50	Dr_Coke	rapha it does exist
2021-06-27 04:36:02	Dr_Coke	But it runs into some issues
2021-06-27 04:36:11	Dr_Coke	If you want to use Google maps
2021-06-27 04:36:24	Dr_Coke	or something Google then Google get's all your info again
2021-06-27 04:37:06	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:37:11	Dr_Coke	rapha check this out https://e.foundation/
2021-06-27 04:37:32	rapha	if i have a number in bytes and want to know how many terabytes (because i want to know if it will fit on a harddisk-to-be-bought), do i divide by 10^12 or do i divide by 2^40? very confused here by the 1000 vs 1024 thing...
2021-06-27 04:38:02	-->	u0_a117 (~u0_a117@177.10.203.30) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 04:38:07	Dr_Coke	If I get weathly i will also donate to that
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2021-06-27 04:38:15	Dr_Coke	problarby
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2021-06-27 04:39:48	matsurago	rapha: divide by 1e+12
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2021-06-27 04:44:25	wyclif	How polished is PopOS? I've never tried it
2021-06-27 04:45:17	Mekaneck	wyclif: download it and try it through the live session.
2021-06-27 04:45:39	wyclif	Mostly I heard about it through System76, though I don't own one of those
2021-06-27 04:46:17	Mekaneck	doesn't matter, it can run on other hardware too, it's 98% Ubuntu after all
2021-06-27 04:46:41	wyclif	Yeah that's what I was told. 98% Ubuntu or so with a different theme
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2021-06-27 04:47:01	Mekaneck	theme, tweaks and a PPA
2021-06-27 04:47:15	wyclif	ah
2021-06-27 04:47:52	Mekaneck	same as Mint is still 95% Ubuntu.
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2021-06-27 04:48:44	Mekaneck	if you download it and try it, you at least can build your own opinion about it
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2021-06-27 04:49:06	paulcarroty	Dr_Coke: doubt you can degoogle android completely at all. there's shitload code and tons of Google services used by android phone. and degoogling will be harder and harder with new releases just because Google interested to lock it down.
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2021-06-27 04:50:22	paulcarroty	well, mint write Cinammon & several apps, it's kinda harder than ubuntu theme
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2021-06-27 04:56:25	HumbleGuy	How do i change icon font size
2021-06-27 04:56:42	gry	in where?
2021-06-27 04:56:56	hexnewbie	Icon font size? You mean icon *and* font size?
2021-06-27 04:57:20	HumbleGuy	I added awesomefont icons in dwm tags but cant seem to change the icon size
2021-06-27 04:57:29	HumbleGuy	i put it to 16 from 10 but no change
2021-06-27 04:58:01	HumbleGuy	hexnewbie, yeah the icon is a font
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2021-06-27 05:00:22	Kyv	HumbleGuy: What is it that you changed to 16 from 10?
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2021-06-27 05:01:03	HumbleGuy	Kyv, "fontawesome:size=10" to "fontawesome:size=10" in config.h
2021-06-27 05:01:10	HumbleGuy	sorry i mean to 16
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2021-06-27 05:02:54	Kyv	Does changing the primary font size have any effect?
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2021-06-27 05:03:10	HumbleGuy	Kyv, you mean monospace?
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2021-06-27 05:03:18	Kyv	yeah
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2021-06-27 05:05:42	HumbleGuy	Kyv, yeah it changed
2021-06-27 05:05:49	HumbleGuy	and it changed the icon size also
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2021-06-27 05:05:59	HumbleGuy	i dont get it, then gont awesome there is useless?
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2021-06-27 05:06:04	HumbleGuy	font*
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2021-06-27 05:07:26	Kyv	I assume you've done 'the thing' where you replace [1-9] tags with FontAwesome.
2021-06-27 05:07:40	Kyv	And copy & pasted the characters in the config as a replacement.
2021-06-27 05:07:54	HumbleGuy	Kyv, yeah this is what i did
2021-06-27 05:08:43	Kyv	It sounds like the icon font is simply using the spacing that is available to it.
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2021-06-27 05:09:41	Kyv	Rather than overriding the size of the bar, it scales itself down.
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2021-06-27 05:11:44	HumbleGuy	Kyv, it looks weird now with the rest of the bar font. How can i change only icon size, but not text size?
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2021-06-27 05:13:10	Kyv	I'm not sure, but maybe you could try swapping the fonts, put the FontAwesome one first, at the larger size.
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2021-06-27 05:15:27	Kyv	Sometimes that is the case that there is a base font which sets the cell spacing for the secondary fonts.
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2021-06-27 05:17:26	HumbleGuy	Kyv, you mentioned that i did 'the thing' to set the icons, is there an 'other thing' i can do maybe? so it gets separate rendering maybe?
2021-06-27 05:17:31	HumbleGuy	i mean separate font
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2021-06-27 05:20:20	Kyv	There are a lot of different symbol or emoji fonts.
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2021-06-27 05:21:38	Kyv	Maybe you'd fare better with one of them. Noto Color Emoji, Symbola, some kind of "Nerd Font" which are fonts modified, often to add broader glyph support.
2021-06-27 05:22:49	Kyv	'monospace' itself is just a font alias, depending on the system that could be aliased to a different font
2021-06-27 05:23:02	Kyv	but it keeps it portable
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2021-06-27 05:24:10	Kyv	JoyPixels also seems to be a popular one
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2021-06-27 05:25:39	paulcarroty	can you run an app with bigger fonts than default?
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2021-06-27 05:28:04	gry	paulcarroty: https://linuxreviews.org/HOWTO_set_DPI_in_Xorg
2021-06-27 05:28:12	gry	probably if you run it on another monitor, it seems
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2021-06-27 05:30:26	Kyv	Was that the question?
2021-06-27 05:31:10	Kyv	Why would one need another monitor to set DPI?
2021-06-27 05:31:25	paulcarroty	gry: thx, I'm on wayland now. Maybe some gtk/qt toolkit environments can halp
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2021-06-27 05:31:51	paulcarroty	the question was "run an app with bigger fonts than default"
2021-06-27 05:31:55	paulcarroty	Kyv^
2021-06-27 05:32:17	Kyv	Yes, an app..
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2021-06-27 05:32:31	Kyv	with bigger fonts than default..
2021-06-27 05:33:45	HumbleGuy	dwm in particular
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2021-06-27 05:34:08	HumbleGuy	bar font to be 10 and icon font to 13
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2021-06-27 05:34:42	paulcarroty	`QT_WAYLAND_FORCE_DP` for qt, need the gtk alternative
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2021-06-27 05:39:20	paulcarroty	yeah, found it: `GDK_DPI_SCALE`
2021-06-27 05:39:30	Kyv	HumbleGuy: There is a Pango patch which may be useful to you.
2021-06-27 05:39:37	Kyv	https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/pango/
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2021-06-27 05:39:56	paulcarroty	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HiDPI excellent article
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2021-06-27 05:41:12	Kyv	What little I have used icons (for volume, mark playing track or bandwidth use) I have not had trouble adjusting the size in the same way through the C header.
2021-06-27 05:41:32	HumbleGuy	Kyv, thanks
2021-06-27 05:41:35	Kyv	But that is also being fed through a script.
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2021-06-27 05:47:10	paulcarroty	well, svg is must have for icons; changing headers is crazy overkill here
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2021-06-27 05:56:46	Kyv	paulcarroty: svg isnt an option, and the header file is how those programs are configured.
2021-06-27 05:56:56	Kyv	think we may have got conversations crossed.
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2021-06-27 06:02:21	godSend23	hey all
2021-06-27 06:02:32	Tronic	hi godSend23
2021-06-27 06:02:40	godSend23	hi Tronic
2021-06-27 06:02:42	godSend23	what's up
2021-06-27 06:02:49	rud0lf	TechnoTronic
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2021-06-27 06:03:15	Tronic	I'm eating
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2021-06-27 06:03:27	godSend23	cool;
2021-06-27 06:03:36	-->	eddy_ (~eddy@user/eddy-san/x-0342514) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 06:03:37	godSend23	 is it possible to install server OS remotely and as painlessly as possible?
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2021-06-27 06:06:24	paulcarroty	yeah
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2021-06-27 06:09:32	lopid	it's possible to do anything as painlessly as possible
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2021-06-27 06:09:40	no_gravity	I have a script that sets "set -e" on top and later calls rdiff-backup to backup stuff mounted over sshfs. Even though rdiff-backup completes nicely, the script stops afterwards. Any ideas why or how to debug this?
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2021-06-27 06:10:05	lopid	1. don't use set -e
2021-06-27 06:10:13	godSend23	how lopid?
2021-06-27 06:10:22	lopid	append ||:
2021-06-27 06:10:38	no_gravity	lopid: no set -e would be dangerous as then the script would mercylessly march on even if a command fails.
2021-06-27 06:10:45	lopid	it's just a matter of trying, godSend23
2021-06-27 06:10:47	jim	what does set -e do?
2021-06-27 06:11:07	lopid	then tell the script to exit when a command fails
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2021-06-27 06:11:20	no_gravity	lopid: That's what I did via "set -e"
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2021-06-27 06:11:37	godSend23	true
2021-06-27 06:11:43	lopid	no, you told it to exit when ANY command returns non-zero
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2021-06-27 06:12:11	no_gravity	lopid: Exactly. How else would you do it?
2021-06-27 06:12:24	lopid	cmd || exit
2021-06-27 06:12:50	lopid	https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/105
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2021-06-27 06:14:07	no_gravity	lopid: Then it would still exit. What is the benefit?
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2021-06-27 06:14:41	lopid	obviously you don't do that where you don't want it to exit, like your rdiff-backup command
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2021-06-27 06:15:01	no_gravity	lopid: The question is why it stops after the rdiff-backup command.
2021-06-27 06:15:06	no_gravity	"echo $?" shows 0
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2021-06-27 06:15:31	lopid	is there anything after it?
2021-06-27 06:15:51	no_gravity	lopid: Yes "umount ./mnt"
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2021-06-27 06:16:06	no_gravity	And then "echo The sky is blue"
2021-06-27 06:16:10	no_gravity	But that never gets printed
2021-06-27 06:16:18	no_gravity	And ./mnt stays mounted.
2021-06-27 06:16:35	lopid	but the script itself exits with 0?
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2021-06-27 06:16:48	no_gravity	Yes
2021-06-27 06:16:55	lopid	try set -x
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2021-06-27 06:17:16	lopid	there are no traps or anything special in it?
2021-06-27 06:17:55	no_gravity	lopid: I tried. With just "set -x" and no "set -e" everything works as expected and the ouput looks as expected.
2021-06-27 06:17:59	no_gravity	lopid: Should I try with "set -x" AND "set -e"?
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2021-06-27 06:18:18	lopid	just add set -x, don't replace
2021-06-27 06:18:23	lopid	set -ex
2021-06-27 06:18:29	no_gravity	Ok, lets see...
2021-06-27 06:18:37	no_gravity	And no, there are no traps I would say.
2021-06-27 06:18:46	lopid	is it running in a subshell?
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2021-06-27 06:19:15	Shapeshifter	Something technical I'm wondering about. Whenever an IO device is "temporarily unavailable", like say, a hard drive spinning up, file managers, shells etc. all just "freeze". I know it's because the resource is pending, but doesn't linux have a better mechanism to deal with this? It appears that every single application has to be implemented "correctly" for this lag to be incorporated. Take thunar,
2021-06-27 06:19:15	no_gravity	lopid: subshell? Dunno. I just type ./scriptname.sh<enter> to run it.
2021-06-27 06:19:21	Shapeshifter	for example. It just freezes. Why wouldn't the developers have implemented a worker thread the show a loading animation and allow me to navigate somewhere else in the meantime?
2021-06-27 06:19:25	Shapeshifter	seems like such a basic feature that I would consider it a bug. Same goes for bash, too.
2021-06-27 06:19:31	lopid	can you show the full script?
2021-06-27 06:19:38	Shapeshifter	try to tab-complete a slow IO resource and you're stuck, possibly forever if the resource doesn't become available.
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2021-06-27 06:21:31	sozuba	has anyone here used pesign for signing efi binaries? if so, does the CA certificate imported in the database be generated with the same key as the user key and certificate? or can the CA certificate be generated seperate?
2021-06-27 06:21:45	no_gravity	Now it stopped stopping in all cases. Maybe after rdiff-backup ran through once, it now behaves differently :/
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2021-06-27 06:22:33	lopid	there would be less confusion without set -e, and telling it specifically when you want to exit
2021-06-27 06:22:50	lopid	if rdiff-backup always exits 0 regardless, that's something else
2021-06-27 06:23:24	no_gravity	Lets see if the bug comes back when I change a file of the backupped data ...
2021-06-27 06:23:37	no_gravity	Yes
2021-06-27 06:23:46	lopid	maybe it has a verbose mode
2021-06-27 06:24:02	no_gravity	Trying -ex now ...
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2021-06-27 06:24:56	no_gravity	No output after the rdiff-backup call.
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2021-06-27 06:25:39	lopid	and no unmount happened?
2021-06-27 06:25:46	no_gravity	no
2021-06-27 06:26:08	lopid	what did set -x show?
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2021-06-27 06:26:19	no_gravity	lopid: No output after the rdiff-backup call.
2021-06-27 06:27:00	no_gravity	Without "-e" I can put "echo $?" after the rdiff-backup call and it outputs 1
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2021-06-27 06:27:15	lopid	it was 0 earlier
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2021-06-27 06:27:29	no_gravity	Yeah, it seems that was after the backup went through
2021-06-27 06:27:41	no_gravity	Maybe that is how rdiff-backup tells you if there is a change in the data.
2021-06-27 06:28:14	no_gravity	But that must be a new behaviour. The script has been working for years without this issue.
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2021-06-27 06:28:38	TJ-	no_gravity: have you read the rdiff-backup man-page?
2021-06-27 06:28:46	no_gravity	TJ-: Many times.
2021-06-27 06:28:48	lopid	maybe something updated or there had always been some files to sync
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2021-06-27 06:28:58	jim	the exit status was 1... I wonder if you can get it to display what the error was ("1" isn't much to go on)
2021-06-27 06:29:19	no_gravity	Lets try -v9 ...
2021-06-27 06:29:47	no_gravity	Uh oh... gazillion of lines on my screen ...
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2021-06-27 06:30:28	no_gravity	Ha, it finished.
2021-06-27 06:30:43	no_gravity	Nothing interesting in the output.
2021-06-27 06:30:55	jim	did it display any kind of summary?
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2021-06-27 06:31:04	no_gravity	I tend to think it is a bug in the latest rdiff-backup version
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2021-06-27 06:31:21	no_gravity	They also broke backward compatibility. Maybe this project has become murky.
2021-06-27 06:31:32	lopid	its man page suggests it should be 0 unless there was an error, regardless of anything to back up
2021-06-27 06:31:40	no_gravity	lopid: Yes
2021-06-27 06:31:59	jim	what if you try... either some earlier version... or else, the specific earlier version you were running when everything worked
2021-06-27 06:32:06	no_gravity	Probably a bug introduced in v2
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2021-06-27 06:32:32	no_gravity	jim: I would expect it to work then. But I don't like to change the packages installed by Debian.
2021-06-27 06:33:43	no_gravity	Who knows, maybe the backups are broken now.
2021-06-27 06:33:55	no_gravity	Might be better to switch to git or something.
2021-06-27 06:34:16	no_gravity	It was an awesome software before v2.
2021-06-27 06:34:30	TJ-	no_gravity: have you looked at the bug reports?
2021-06-27 06:34:37	no_gravity	TJ-: Nope
2021-06-27 06:35:16	no_gravity	TJ-: Can't see anything related to the exit code: https://github.com/rdiff-backup/rdiff-backup/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+exit
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2021-06-27 06:36:03	TJ-	no_gravity: I'd look first on Debian, and not looking for 'exit code' but look for issues that describe the scenario you're using it in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=rdiff-backup;dist=unstable
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2021-06-27 06:36:39	no_gravity	TJ-: Isn't my scenario that it outputs an exit code of 1 for no reason?
2021-06-27 06:36:53	TJ-	no
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2021-06-27 06:37:16	lopid	https://github.com/rdiff-backup/rdiff-backup/issues/338 may be related
2021-06-27 06:37:28	TJ-	that's the symptom, not the cause. There is likely something in the exact command-line options AND the remote that is causing it
2021-06-27 06:38:06	lopid	it sounds like your problem is it's exiting 1 if it was successful but nothing to back up
2021-06-27 06:38:12	gnux	I wonder if there are use cases of Tensor flow and AI in product design
2021-06-27 06:38:15	no_gravity	TJ: "number of 'bad_files'. I wonder what that is.
2021-06-27 06:38:26	gnux	like manufacturing
2021-06-27 06:38:42	gnux	using deep learning to develop a physical product
2021-06-27 06:38:43	no_gravity	lopid: Its the other way round. It exits with 1 if there *is* something to back up.
2021-06-27 06:38:51	lopid	oh
2021-06-27 06:38:58	gnux	AI and autocad or solid modeling
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2021-06-27 06:40:22	TJ-	no_gravity: how about checking the error_log, and ensuring any options to trigger that, are set?
2021-06-27 06:40:33	no_gravity	TJ-: Well, I have to go now.
2021-06-27 06:40:58	no_gravity	Thanks for all the help!
2021-06-27 06:42:21	no_gravity	Think I will manually check if it handles the backups correctly. And think about switching to a git based solution.
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2021-06-27 06:42:59	no_gravity	git seems the most trustworthy and future proof thing to store increments.
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2021-06-27 07:11:21	HumbleGuy	how to write XK key for delete? i am trying to create a new key combination with delete key, but i get an error that XK_delete is not defined, how do i define it?
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2021-06-27 07:12:52	rbh	Im trying to decide whether to try out btrfs for my new arch install or stuck to good ol ext4
2021-06-27 07:13:04	Kyv	HumbleGuy: capital "D"
2021-06-27 07:13:20	rbh	The snapshot system seems way too interesting to miss out but I have a few questions.
2021-06-27 07:13:27	Kyv	HumbleGuy: installing xorg-xev can help in these instances.
2021-06-27 07:14:04	MrElendig	HumbleGuy: and don't forget that there are two different delete keys
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2021-06-27 07:14:16	HumbleGuy	Kyv, installed it already and tested but it doesnt say exactly how the key is defined
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2021-06-27 07:14:27	rbh	Is it possible to merge/get rid of snapshots till point X? since they are all incremental?
2021-06-27 07:14:32	HumbleGuy	MrElendig, i have only one on my keyboard
2021-06-27 07:14:34	MrElendig	HumbleGuy: you can find them all in keysym.h
2021-06-27 07:14:47	MrElendig	HumbleGuy: numpad del vs standalone del
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2021-06-27 07:14:57	HumbleGuy	oh
2021-06-27 07:15:05	MrElendig	keysymdef.h*
2021-06-27 07:15:18	HumbleGuy	can you give me full path?
2021-06-27 07:15:28	MrElendig	locate/find can
2021-06-27 07:15:33	MrElendig	or your package manager
2021-06-27 07:15:53	HumbleGuy	ok
2021-06-27 07:16:04	MrElendig	path is somewhat distro dependent
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2021-06-27 07:16:43	HumbleGuy	ok its /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h
2021-06-27 07:16:52	MrElendig	commonly /usr/include/X11/ but not always
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2021-06-27 07:17:10	MrElendig	eg some like to stuff it in /usr/local
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2021-06-27 07:21:06	Kyv	Then you see where in the output it is defined with xev.
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2021-06-27 07:21:54	horise[m]	Hello!
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2021-06-27 07:22:13	loganlee	hello!
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2021-06-27 07:22:35	horise[m]	Im just testing out element.io. Apparently it does irc as well. very cool
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2021-06-27 07:23:08	Kyv	some think so
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2021-06-27 07:26:09	MrElendig	horise[m]: element itself doesn't do irc, but there are a lot of matrix->irc bridges
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2021-06-27 07:28:17	Kyv	the world is your crawfish
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2021-06-27 07:29:23	bewees	what cross-platform software do you recommend for non-programming related documentation in Linux? For now I used text files and `grep -R` to find keywords in files. But if the notes become lengthy or reference to pictures text files become hard to read. With .odt/.docx file I can just do `unzip -ca "$i" 2>/dev/null | grep -iq "$*"`. Do you think thats a good idea to just use libreoffice for notes?
2021-06-27 07:29:24	HumbleGuy	how do i add CtrlMask in Key shortcuts?
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2021-06-27 07:30:50	Kyv	There is an example in the config already.
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2021-06-27 07:37:04	MrElendig	bewees: depends on what format said documentation is written in to begin with
2021-06-27 07:37:44	MrElendig	if you are writing the documentation, writ it in rest/commonmark/latex/similar easily convertable format
2021-06-27 07:37:48	MrElendig	write*
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2021-06-27 07:38:55	MrElendig	bewees: or use one of the dedicated technical writing suits
2021-06-27 07:39:24	MrElendig	or a wiki
2021-06-27 07:39:32	loganlee	i like markdown
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2021-06-27 07:40:01	bewees	MrElendig: Yeah I'm writing the documentation. Sounds like libreoffice Writer is fine, but isn't as easy convertable to other formats
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2021-06-27 07:40:27	MrElendig	or even something like oxygen
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2021-06-27 07:41:02	MrElendig	or anything else dita compliant
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2021-06-27 07:42:05	loganlee	i've got a write a lot of documentation in markdown format
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2021-06-27 07:42:53	Kyv	HumbleGuy: if you haven't found it yet, it is ControlMask.
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2021-06-27 07:43:18	Kyv	There are already pretty functional key maps that use it.
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2021-06-27 07:44:20	bewees	OK thanks, going to check them out
2021-06-27 07:44:58	HumbleGuy	I am trying open a new terminal instance in the same directory i curently am. i have set this in dwm static const char *termcmdpwd[] = { "st", "-e cd $PWD", NULL}; but it doesnt work
2021-06-27 07:45:35	HumbleGuy	how to properly implemen this?
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2021-06-27 07:46:25	HumbleGuy	for example i am in /home/user/dir/test, when i enter a key combination i want to open another terminal in the same directory: /home/user/dir/test
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2021-06-27 07:47:36	gnux	hi
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2021-06-27 07:51:36	Kyv	HumbleGuy: open a new terminal from the terminal in your current dir, or handle it in your shell.
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2021-06-27 07:52:23	HumbleGuy	Kyv, is that a question or an answer?
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2021-06-27 07:54:10	MrElendig	an answer
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2021-06-27 07:54:26	MrElendig	most TEs can open a new window with the current cwd
2021-06-27 07:55:40	Kyv	HumbleGuy: there are probably hacks to do what you want to do, but it seems your are just becoming overly zealous in finding keybindings to set within dwm itself.
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2021-06-27 07:57:19	Kyv	You also do not need to define static variables for these things which SHCMD already exists.
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2021-06-27 07:58:17	Kyv	That way you do not have to deal with that syntax.
2021-06-27 07:58:28	MrElendig	could also use tmux/screen
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2021-06-27 08:18:52	Kyv	trying to beat `st &`
2021-06-27 08:19:08	Kyv	you dont slap mother nature in the face when she gives you a key binding
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2021-06-27 08:20:13	Dagmar	It's good to want things, but only reasonable things.
2021-06-27 08:20:14	dylan_	Wazzup
2021-06-27 08:20:22	dylan_	How are you guys?
2021-06-27 08:20:23	Dagmar	Unreasonable things require one be able to code it onesself.
2021-06-27 08:20:30	dylan_	Anything in particular happened?
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2021-06-27 08:21:03	msiism	Even reasonable things seem to require coding it oneself, occasionally.
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2021-06-27 08:44:49	TheWild	hello
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2021-06-27 08:45:53	electr0n	hello.
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2021-06-27 08:46:35	dylan_	Wazzup
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2021-06-27 08:47:10	TheWild	when running a program, does kernel just assume fd 0 is for writing (program reads from there) and fd 1 and 2 are for reading (program writes there)?
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2021-06-27 08:52:20	lacroix	TheWild, this is not something of interest to the Kernel
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2021-06-27 08:52:53	TheWild	well, I'll reword my question
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2021-06-27 08:53:53	lacroix	TheWild, feel free to reword, until then, note that libc sets that up
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2021-06-27 08:57:10	TheWild	Program A takes reads elements from fd 0 and fd 1, then produces result and writes it to fd 2. Program B runs A as a child, writes elements to A's fd 0 and fd 1 then reads result from A's fd 2. Is there a chance for this to work, or there's an assumption somewhere in the systme that fd 0 is only for A's reading (B's writing) and fd 1 and fd 2 are for A's writing (B's reading)?
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2021-06-27 09:01:07	dylan_	Anyone gonna login to EDW
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2021-06-27 09:02:08	lacroix	TheWild: fds 0, 1 and 2 can be anything. it is not set in stone that these are for stdin, out and err. of course if you want to interact with other programs or libaries such as stdio you need to follow this convention.
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2021-06-27 09:05:25	bewees	I want to install a software but the website doesn't provide any hashes to verify the software, instead they provide a sig file, but i dont find the key used in the sig on any gpg key servers. is there another way to  verify the key?
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2021-06-27 09:06:01	TheWild	lacroix: good to read that. Thanks.
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2021-06-27 09:09:11	fling	What is the best 8pt square font?
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2021-06-27 09:10:13	lacroix	TheWild: You're welcome. Have a look at init/main.c console_on_rootfs()  as well
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2021-06-27 09:10:48	lacroix	TheWild, this is in summary all what the kernel itself does with the first three fd. The rest is up to userspace.
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2021-06-27 09:11:45	lacroix	be back in a while, cooking time now :)
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2021-06-27 09:16:06	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-27 09:17:07	Kyv	fling: is 8pt 8pt or are you looking for small & readable?
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2021-06-27 09:19:28	TheWild	https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1068395/sprint_2_1
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2021-06-27 09:28:23	Kyv	https://tobiasjung.name/profont/
2021-06-27 09:28:24	-->	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 09:28:38	Kyv	I'll throw it in
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2021-06-27 09:33:57	fling	Is there an alternative to xbacklight / acpilight for when there is no support in hardware?
2021-06-27 09:34:14	-->	sazawal (~sazawal@27.56.205.74) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 09:34:50	akik	fling: you can modify the sysfs brightness file
2021-06-27 09:34:52	Dagmar	Without support in hardware your alternatives are "physical buttons on the laptop"
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2021-06-27 09:37:54	clarity	Hmm I wonder what's the simplest shell command to just sum all numbers from stdin (one per line)?
2021-06-27 09:38:39	clarity	awk '{q += $1} END{print q}'
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2021-06-27 09:59:48	blackgatonegro	Wow not even a day since I mentioned drivers signage in Windows is a mess and Microsoft admits they signed malware.
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2021-06-27 10:01:17	felco	they signed malware? have a link to that?
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2021-06-27 10:02:52	Kyv	a true seer
2021-06-27 10:02:52	blackgatonegro	https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/06/26/1918225/microsoft-admits-to-mistakenly-signing-a-malicious-malware-rootkit
2021-06-27 10:03:27	Kyv	soliciting the stars, the seamstresses mend the constellations only for you
2021-06-27 10:03:42	blackgatonegro	Actually stuff like this had happened before.
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2021-06-27 10:04:32	blackgatonegro	That's why I said is a mess, Windows will do as far as remove perfectly working drivers in an update but if is signed? No problem baby.
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2021-06-27 10:06:01	felco	dang
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2021-06-27 10:08:05	kish`	can I lower the CPU max frequency to keep my laptop cooler?
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2021-06-27 10:16:49	blackgatonegro	* kish` * Try the power save mode in the bios settings
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2021-06-27 10:18:08	BluesKaj	kish, also depending on your OS and desktop there's an app called cpufrequtils which may be available.
2021-06-27 10:18:41	kish`	I cannot access BIOS as the laptop display i broken and the VGA has to be sent to an external monitor.
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2021-06-27 10:19:23	kish`	I'll try cpufrequtils. thanks guys
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2021-06-27 10:20:27	akik	kish`: i don't know about that but if you know which process is causing it, you could try to limit that process with cpulimit command
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2021-06-27 10:31:07	blackgatonegro	kish well, get the laptop insides cleaning, dirt may be helping it to overheat.
2021-06-27 10:31:16	blackgatonegro	*cleaned
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2021-06-27 10:43:48	Libre1209	 does anyone know how to open/listen to .vmf files in linux?  the audio (voice mail) format .vmf that is.
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2021-06-27 10:45:55	pajus	Libre1209: bro
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2021-06-27 10:46:04	pajus	Might i suggest to use google
2021-06-27 10:46:08	pajus	for such easy shit ?
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2021-06-27 10:47:15	Libre1209	I have been searching with google and every other imaginable searchengine for weeks.  I don't ask a question on irc until I have done that
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2021-06-27 10:51:10	Libre1209	I have found no solutions for linux (I haven't had a windows machine if ages)
2021-06-27 10:51:48	Libre1209	if you find it so easy, could you please help me with it pajus?
2021-06-27 10:52:41	moo	Libre1209: whats the output of `file foo.vmf` ?
2021-06-27 10:52:42	onelegend	Libre1209: how did you obtain the vmf file?
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2021-06-27 10:53:56	akik	Libre1209: maybe using a windows audio player with wine in linux?
2021-06-27 10:54:25	akik	that's some old audio format
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2021-06-27 10:54:40	knick	pajus just got shut down
2021-06-27 10:54:43	Libre1209	yes it is old, but has necessary files
2021-06-27 10:54:58	akik	Libre1209: this page lists internet wave player for win 3.1 https://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php/Internet_Wave
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2021-06-27 10:55:50	akk	Win 3.1, wow. But that might be good, might make it more likely to work in wine.
2021-06-27 10:56:04	akik	http://ftp.sunet.se/mirror/archive/ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/windows/winsock-indstate/WWW-Browsers/Players/iwave02.exe
2021-06-27 10:57:11	Libre1209	good question moo:
2021-06-27 10:57:12	backleet	hi guys, what do you guys use to keep up to date with tv shows (torrent), radarr sonarr? if so how do you integrate torrenting daemon into it? I am running radarr in docker, can it connect to transmission-daemon of host computer or docker instance of transmission needs to be run. Is there easier way of handling this?
2021-06-27 10:57:12	Libre1209	./ForArchiving+BackingUp/Gateway/Faxworks/FOD/X-Fod00000.vmf: data
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2021-06-27 10:57:26	moo	oh well thats disappointing :P
2021-06-27 10:57:44	Libre1209	oh it just says data, I copied too much
2021-06-27 10:57:57	moo	backleet: yeah i just have all pieces of torrenting in one VM, so they can see each other
2021-06-27 10:58:11	Libre1209	yes very disappointing
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2021-06-27 10:58:21	moo	vlc and mpv can't play them?
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2021-06-27 10:58:30	Libre1209	no
2021-06-27 10:58:33	backleet	moo: you install radarr locally too?
2021-06-27 10:58:41	moo	yes all in one VM
2021-06-27 10:58:48	backleet	moo thanks!
2021-06-27 10:58:52	moo	radarr sonarr transmission and jellyfin
2021-06-27 10:59:04	moo	and jackett but don't really need that
2021-06-27 10:59:49	Libre1209	mpv X-Fod00000.vmf
2021-06-27 10:59:49	Libre1209	Failed to recognize file format.
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2021-06-27 11:00:20	akik	Libre1209: do you know what wine is (regarding gnu+linux) ?
2021-06-27 11:00:42	Libre1209	cvlc just hangs
2021-06-27 11:00:58	 *	rascul pours akik some wine
2021-06-27 11:01:08	Libre1209	you don't know what wine is akik?  amazing
2021-06-27 11:01:29	akik	Libre1209: i know but that seems to be your best way forward
2021-06-27 11:02:12	Libre1209	it wasn't that I found a decent windows solution, I just wanted to prevent anyone from telling me to use windows.
2021-06-27 11:02:24	akik	wine is not windows
2021-06-27 11:02:44	 *	rascul dumps wine out the window
2021-06-27 11:02:55	Libre1209	there is a (now unavailable) windows program that can read those files though -- faxworks
2021-06-27 11:03:06	Henry151	strange thing going on, maybe someone can help
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2021-06-27 11:03:18	Libre1209	well if there is no windows solution do you really think there is a wine solution akik?
2021-06-27 11:03:26	Henry151	ping: last.fm: Name or service not known
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2021-06-27 11:03:32	akik	rascul: i have a bottle of casillero del diablo shiraz here
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2021-06-27 11:03:39	rascul	i don't know what that is
2021-06-27 11:03:41	Libre1209	oh one of my favorites
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2021-06-27 11:03:46	rascul	wine i presume
2021-06-27 11:03:56	moo	faxworks, for windows 3.11? maybe dosbox can run it :"D
2021-06-27 11:03:59	Libre1209	now that kind of wine I would be happy to accept
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2021-06-27 11:04:06	Libre1209	I love Shiraz
2021-06-27 11:04:07	akik	going to make some sangria today
2021-06-27 11:04:43	Libre1209	but I don't have faxworks for windows 3.11
2021-06-27 11:04:56	akik	Libre1209: try that iwave02.exe
2021-06-27 11:04:57	Libre1209	and yes that would have been the solution
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2021-06-27 11:05:16	moo	https://winworldpc.com/download/851654e5-fde1-11e9-828b-fa163e9022f0 etc?
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2021-06-27 11:05:29	akik	i read that as wineworld
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2021-06-27 11:06:20	Libre1209	do you really think that iwave02.exe would work, I see nothing that would lead me to believe that.
2021-06-27 11:06:32	akik	Libre1209: it's the player for that format
2021-06-27 11:06:39	Libre1209	If there is no wine solution, I would rather not run wine
2021-06-27 11:06:45	Libre1209	oh? really?
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2021-06-27 11:07:05	akik	Libre1209: yes i pasted that url above for the vmf format info
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2021-06-27 11:07:12	akik	https://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php/Internet_Wave
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2021-06-27 11:07:56	akik	that page says "A VMF file is simply a WAV file with a codec ID of 0x7150."
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2021-06-27 11:08:24	tomreyn	<Libre1209> ./ForArchiving+BackingUp/Gateway/Faxworks/FOD/X-Fod00000.vmf: data
2021-06-27 11:08:34	tomreyn	this rather looks like it's a fax, though
2021-06-27 11:08:34	Libre1209	I don't see how to get it though it is on "Lost" software request websites
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2021-06-27 11:08:58	moo	can you put one vmf somewhere for testing?
2021-06-27 11:09:05	akik	Libre1209: i pasted the url to iwave02.exe above. keep up now
2021-06-27 11:09:15	moo	i pasted for faxworks :P
2021-06-27 11:09:18	Libre1209	it is from an ancient voicemail (and fax) software program
2021-06-27 11:09:43	tomreyn	okay, please pretend i didn't speak
2021-06-27 11:10:02	akik	tomreyn: i guess he knows it's an audio file
2021-06-27 11:10:27	tomreyn	see above ;)
2021-06-27 11:10:38	akik	voicemail
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2021-06-27 11:14:02	Libre1209	I downloaded the winworldpc.com file, is that a reliable site?  i.e. can it be trusted?
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2021-06-27 11:14:02	moo	not really, but no harm in trying in VM or dosbox
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2021-06-27 11:14:02	Libre1209	ok, currently I don't have room for a VM, I'm buying a new external usb drive today, I'll try it after I get it.
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2021-06-27 11:15:52	akik	Libre1209: there's a newer version of internet wave here: http://web.archive.org/web/19990501155428/http://rw2.rworld.com:80/dragon/cheech/iwave.htm
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2021-06-27 11:17:02	Libre1209	sorry akik, I had missed that link, I will try it.  I really wish there were a native linux solution since I was planning to use it in a bash script.
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2021-06-27 11:17:22	akik	Libre1209: oh i thought you were just trying to access those files again :D
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2021-06-27 11:17:33	akik	Libre1209: what are you building?
2021-06-27 11:18:49	Libre1209	not building anything fancy, just lazy and use scripts for lots of trivial stuff
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2021-06-27 11:21:37	Libre1209	perhaps an appropiate era Windows VM would make as much sense as Wine (I find it often iffy using wine for that kind of stuff).  Would anyone happen to know if such things are available.
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2021-06-27 11:22:24	Libre1209	I have managed to totally avoid Windows (and wine) since the 90s, by the way so was hoping to find a Linux solution to this too.
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2021-06-27 11:23:07	Libre1209	the only other windows based things I needed never worked on wine
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2021-06-27 11:24:15	Libre1209	or crossover
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2021-06-27 11:25:29	akik	Libre1209: i use wine to run windows vsts in a linux daw and that is working fine
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2021-06-27 11:26:01	akk	Libre1209: Same here, I haven't had much luck with wine or crossover.
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2021-06-27 11:27:29	Libre1209	I even sent codeweavers an expensive copy of the software I needed at their request, but they couldn't get it to work
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2021-06-27 11:29:33	Libre1209	any contact with windows or an emulator puts me in a foul mood, but if I need it I need it.
2021-06-27 11:30:56	akk	That's better service than anything I ever got from codeweavers, I just got a "that app isn't on our supported list, tough luck."
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2021-06-27 11:31:17	Libre1209	anyway, sorry if I was sarcastic earlier, thanks a lot akik, moo, ...
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2021-06-27 11:32:15	tomreyn	in case it wasn't obvious: your problem is dependency on a proprietary stone age file format, not that 'linux is too dumb to use this'
2021-06-27 11:32:32	Libre1209	I was lucky to accidentally reach someone very nice (james ramey, vp of sales at the time)
2021-06-27 11:32:58	Libre1209	oh I am fully aware of that tomreyn
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2021-06-27 11:33:37	Libre1209	it is kind of amazing what people have been able to do to help linux deal with evil proprietary stuff
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2021-06-27 11:35:22	Libre1209	oh, it seems he is now the president of the company
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2021-06-27 11:35:42	Libre1209	https://www.codeweavers.com/about/people/jramey
2021-06-27 11:36:40	Libre1209	at the time he was even nice enough to do a conference call with nuance to try to enlist someone
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2021-06-27 11:37:04	Libre1209	s help there to get their software to work in crossover
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2021-06-27 11:40:38	PaulFertser	Libre1209: so can you share some VMF file publicly?
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2021-06-27 11:42:04	Libre1209	not until I know what the content is, a lot of it contains stuff under nondisclosure agreement
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2021-06-27 11:42:11	Libre1209	and I can't tell which is which
2021-06-27 11:42:28	Libre1209	If I can figure out a way to find one that isn't I will share it
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2021-06-27 11:43:51	akik	Libre1209: if i read this page right, they're still in business https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VocalTec
2021-06-27 11:43:52	PaulFertser	Libre1209: for the VMF file I downloaded from the link if I run "aplay -c1 -r 16000 -f S16 < piano.vmf" I get "WAVE-file format 0x7150 which is not PCM or FLOAT encoded". If you do not, probably your VMF files are very different.
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2021-06-27 11:44:04	Libre1209	hmmm
2021-06-27 11:44:15	Libre1209	oh?
2021-06-27 11:44:17	akik	oh damn i was wrong. it got sold
2021-06-27 11:44:18	Libre1209	let me try
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2021-06-27 11:44:33	akik	On July 16, 2010, MagicJack took over VocalTec in a reverse takeover.
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2021-06-27 11:45:23	Libre1209	just a screech when I try that approach PaulFertser
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2021-06-27 11:46:26	PaulFertser	Libre1209: it's interesting, so your vmf file doesn't actually have a WAV header
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2021-06-27 11:47:33	Libre1209	no
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2021-06-27 11:50:10	Libre1209	all linux seems to see is 'data'
2021-06-27 11:50:41	PaulFertser	Libre1209: looks like your best bet would be to find some old windows decoder for that and convert in batch and forget about VMF.
2021-06-27 11:50:44	Libre1209	sox, (c)vlc, mpv, etc can't recognize it at all
2021-06-27 11:51:17	Libre1209	that is what folks have been trying to help me with PaulFertser
2021-06-27 11:51:34	Libre1209	I would infinitely prefer a linux solution though
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2021-06-27 11:54:29	 *	kilitary analyzing france clothes ... 39%
2021-06-27 11:55:31	mlu	Libre1209: hmm, got docs about how VMF works?
2021-06-27 11:55:47	Libre1209	unfortunately no, I don't
2021-06-27 11:56:05	mlu	Libre1209: eek -- but you do know it's an uncompressed sound file?
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2021-06-27 11:56:32	mlu	Libre1209: could be possible to tweak around a few ways to attempt to read it, but misdecoding it is a real issue
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2021-06-27 11:58:37	moo	someone said its wav with custom codec id
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2021-06-27 12:00:09	akik	that page says "A VMF file is simply a WAV file with a codec ID of 0x7150."
2021-06-27 12:00:09	PaulFertser	Libre1209: you shouldn't need much space to install Windows 3.1 in DosBOX and then run that iwave09 :)
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2021-06-27 12:00:47	Libre1209	it is an audio file format used in the '90s for voicemail by various proprietary windows programs such as Faxworks Pro
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2021-06-27 12:01:25	Libre1209	how would one get the windows 3.1 and it would run in dosbox?
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2021-06-27 12:01:45	mlu	Libre1209: hmm -- might be able to force it to play as a raw wave file
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2021-06-27 12:01:52	moo	https://archive.org/details/windows-3.11
2021-06-27 12:02:03	moo	or hexedit file to change that codec id
2021-06-27 12:02:04	akik	i would absolutely test it first with wine
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2021-06-27 12:02:27	mlu	you just need to experiment with the sample rate and rample format
2021-06-27 12:02:47	mlu	and whether it's linear, u-Law, or a-Law
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2021-06-27 12:03:23	PaulFertser	mlu: I tried, no way with piano.vmf , it's really using some coding, it's not PCM.
2021-06-27 12:03:32	moo	http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
2021-06-27 12:03:47	moo	get first 36 bytes from real wav, then apply 36-endoffile bytes from your vmf
2021-06-27 12:04:01	moo	merge them, PROFIT ?
2021-06-27 12:04:12	PaulFertser	Libre1209: you can download windows 3.1 distro from where people collect old software and it should run under dosbox.
2021-06-27 12:04:44	PaulFertser	moo: the problem is this is neither linear, not u-law, not a-law, it's really a special codec.
2021-06-27 12:04:45	Libre1209	really?
2021-06-27 12:04:48	Libre1209	ok, I'll try
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2021-06-27 12:04:57	moo	do you have a link to file ?
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2021-06-27 12:05:23	PaulFertser	moo: http://www.sonic.net/~thorn/KROS/hotwave/piano.vmf this is what I found, but Libre1209's files are different apparently.
2021-06-27 12:05:47	PaulFertser	Libre1209: plenty of articles like https://joshmccarty.com/run-windows-3-1-in-dosbox/
2021-06-27 12:05:55	Libre1209	thanks
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2021-06-27 12:06:00	moo	Libre1209: paste one vmf somewhere
2021-06-27 12:06:28	Libre1209	I wish I could, but I have to figure out which are under non-disclosure and which aren't first
2021-06-27 12:07:23	mlu	Libre1209: do these happen to be related to the military Variable Message File?
2021-06-27 12:08:23	Libre1209	ha, no
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2021-06-27 12:08:55	Libre1209	it is a voicemail audio file format commonly used by proprietary windows programs in the 90s
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2021-06-27 12:09:47	mlu	Libre1209: you'd pirate Windows 3.1 and yes it'll run in dosbox
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2021-06-27 12:10:07	mlu	Libre1209: in fact, anything up to Windows ME runs well in dosbox
2021-06-27 12:10:13	Libre1209	not used to pirating and wouldn't know where to find it
2021-06-27 12:10:27	Libre1209	oh really, interesting
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2021-06-27 12:10:47	PaulFertser	It's not pirating, it's just some kind of possibly illegal in certain jurisdictions copying.
2021-06-27 12:10:53	mlu	Libre1209: the web archive has a copy
2021-06-27 12:11:19	mlu	it's in a legal grey zone: Microsoft won't enforce the copyrights on it
2021-06-27 12:11:32	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 12:11:41	mlu	yet the copyright isn't expired either and you can't obtain it legally from Microsoft either
2021-06-27 12:11:58	PaulFertser	https://archive.org/details/windows-3.1_202011
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2021-06-27 12:12:30	mlu	do what you need to do with it -- pretty easy to explain away
2021-06-27 12:12:38	mlu	just don't try to sell any solution involving it directly
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2021-06-27 12:13:24	mlu	and oh yeah: dosbox is excellent for emulating a 486 for some old games
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2021-06-27 12:15:15	 *	PaulFertser is trying to install dosbox on his ac100 ARM netbook
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2021-06-27 12:16:01	mlu	PaulFertser: how's that netbook btw?
2021-06-27 12:16:32	mlu	hmm, it's very old -- still curious how it works today
2021-06-27 12:16:35	CoolerX	Hi
2021-06-27 12:16:49	CoolerX	anyone know what could cause the screen to jitter up and down periodically?
2021-06-27 12:17:00	moo	loose cable? i had that xd
2021-06-27 12:17:00	CoolerX	it happens every 3 seconds on my laptop
2021-06-27 12:17:04	moo	oh
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2021-06-27 12:17:26	CoolerX	I have this a few times before, it randomly appears
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2021-06-27 12:17:39	CoolerX	last time it went away after an hour or 2
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2021-06-27 12:19:37	CoolerX	even the bootscreen jitters
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2021-06-27 12:20:13	PaulFertser	mlu: I like it more after installing a proper 1366x768 panel. And the upstream kernel and GPU drivers are in active development, so one can use accelerated colourspace conversion and scaling to watch some videos.
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2021-06-27 12:20:57	PaulFertser	mlu: also replacing 18650 cells helped with the runtime. My only concern now is the LVDS cable, mine is likely going to fail.
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2021-06-27 12:23:04	mlu	PaulFertser: hope you are good with electronics repair ;)
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2021-06-27 12:23:45	Libre1209	ok, I have insgtalled dosbox and ran win 3.1 in it and tried running iwav02.exe to play the .vmf file, but it says
2021-06-27 12:23:47	PaulFertser	mlu: LVDS cables might be a bitch to repair, so idk...
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2021-06-27 12:24:04	mlu	** replace
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2021-06-27 12:24:34	PaulFertser	mlu: I use this netbook as my work computer, attaching to a good HDMI display and running builds and other things on a powerful server machine :)
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2021-06-27 12:24:54	PaulFertser	mlu: not sure if I'm able to find a cable with compatible motherboard connector :/
2021-06-27 12:25:06	easyme	Is there any problem if someone uses ubuntu on virtualbox?
2021-06-27 12:25:06	Libre1209	"This is a Windows self-extracting ZIP file. You can run it from Windows or unzip with a utility like WinZip or PKUNZIP
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2021-06-27 12:25:43	akik	Libre1209: there was a newer version of the app
2021-06-27 12:25:57	mlu	PaulFertser: that's where the good with electronics repair part comes in: make your own -- find the connectors on digikey
2021-06-27 12:25:58	Libre1209	I thought that was the newer version, I downloaded both
2021-06-27 12:26:18	akik	Libre1209: http://web.archive.org/web/19990501155428/http://rw2.rworld.com:80/dragon/cheech/iwave.htm
2021-06-27 12:26:28	akik	Libre1209: click "rw2.rworld.com"
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2021-06-27 12:26:48	mlu	PaulFertser: I'm assuming it's some FPC cable with one of those IDC connectors?
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2021-06-27 12:27:11	TheWild	I tried modifying the header of that "wav" file, but it still sounds like 56k modem transmission :/
2021-06-27 12:27:20	<--	CoolerX (~CoolerX@user/coolerx) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-27 12:27:50	mlu	maybe it is a 56k modem transmission
2021-06-27 12:28:14	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-27 12:28:34	PaulFertser	mlu: not FPC, it's a regular shielded LVDS cable with 40-pin connector on one side and some more specific connector on the motherboard side
2021-06-27 12:28:36	akik	:)
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2021-06-27 12:29:19	PaulFertser	mlu: I know the connector partname, it's something from ipex, but making one's own cable would require some rare crimper tool apparently.
2021-06-27 12:29:44	Libre1209	akik, exactly the same message
2021-06-27 12:29:55	Libre1209	using the 09 version
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2021-06-27 12:30:03	Libre1209	what does that mean
2021-06-27 12:30:29	akik	Libre1209: maybe you need to unzip it first
2021-06-27 12:30:39	Libre1209	oh? an .exe file?
2021-06-27 12:30:43	Libre1209	really?
2021-06-27 12:30:47	akik	yes
2021-06-27 12:30:54	gnux	hi Libre1209
2021-06-27 12:30:55	Libre1209	as you can see I know nothing of the windows world
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2021-06-27 12:31:06	easyme	Is there any problem if someone uses ubuntu on virtualbox?
2021-06-27 12:31:14	Libre1209	can I do that in linux or do I need to get a windows program for that?
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2021-06-27 12:31:28	gnux	wine
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2021-06-27 12:31:34	Libre1209	easyme, I have done it with no problems, but I am no authority
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2021-06-27 12:31:52	akik	Libre1209: yes it's a zip file
2021-06-27 12:32:01	Sauvin	easyme, I've also done it with no problems.
2021-06-27 12:32:04	Libre1209	easyme, I regularly ran xubuntu that way
2021-06-27 12:32:07	akik	Libre1209: i'll link you to a video you'll find really interesting
2021-06-27 12:32:35	Libre1209	gan I use a linux tool to do the unzipping of the .exe file?
2021-06-27 12:32:44	akik	Libre1209: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdCs6bPM4is "FI
2021-06-27 12:32:47	akik	Ange Albertini: Funky File Formats"
2021-06-27 12:32:52	akik	Libre1209: yes
2021-06-27 12:33:11	phogg	Libre1209: unzip, probably. As a last resort: wine
2021-06-27 12:33:41	akik	        The Internet Wave - Beta 0.9
2021-06-27 12:33:42	akik	        November 15, 1995
2021-06-27 12:33:42	mlu	easyme: why would it be a problem? :P
2021-06-27 12:33:49	mlu	easyme: I run Ubuntu inside virtualbox to play around with stuff
2021-06-27 12:34:08	mlu	also to run my scanner because their driver is so poorly made that it doesn't install on anything other than Fedora and Ubuntu
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2021-06-27 12:35:43	Libre1209	ok, I guess I was just in dosbox not windows
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2021-06-27 12:36:05	mlu	Windows itself is a dos program
2021-06-27 12:36:12	Libre1209	I downloaded a windows3.1 iso but I have no clue what to do -- that is a world I am unfamiliar with
2021-06-27 12:36:22	rud0lf	mlu: i beg to differ
2021-06-27 12:36:29	mlu	** Windows 9x
2021-06-27 12:36:35	rud0lf	ah right
2021-06-27 12:36:49	rud0lf	it's overlay for DOS
2021-06-27 12:36:49	phogg	Libre1209: 3.1 didn't come on an ISO (only floppies that I ever saw)
2021-06-27 12:36:53	Libre1209	my first linux attempt was in 1994 (sls) my first success was in 1995 (slackware from sunsite.unc.edu) and I never looked back
2021-06-27 12:37:01	-->	Atum_ (~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 12:37:08	Sauvin	Ah, sunsite.... I miss that.
2021-06-27 12:37:09	Libre1209	someone here gave me a link to an iso
2021-06-27 12:37:14	PaulFertser	Libre1209: my first distro was slackware too
2021-06-27 12:37:14	<--	Mekaneck (~quassel@ubuntu/member/mekaneck) has left #linux
2021-06-27 12:37:24	rud0lf	i'm with linux for 9 years so far
2021-06-27 12:37:33	mlu	Libre1209: got me beat -- I only switched over to Linux after I got frustrated with my WinME install
2021-06-27 12:37:41	rud0lf	the impulse was i wanted to write scripts for irssi for friends
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2021-06-27 12:37:54	mlu	Libre1209: fairly easy to find by google these days
2021-06-27 12:37:56	rud0lf	so i installed ubuntu
2021-06-27 12:37:59	Libre1209	I guess I need to burn that to a cd and install into something, but what and how?  I don't know the windows world at all!!!
2021-06-27 12:38:11	rud0lf	Libre1209: are you using VM?
2021-06-27 12:38:12	mlu	Libre1209: but archive.org is my usual first stop
2021-06-27 12:38:14	phogg	no need to burn to mount
2021-06-27 12:38:31	Libre1209	not enough room for a full VM until I go buy the new drive
2021-06-27 12:38:34	akik	Libre1209: that's why i said i should test it first with wine
2021-06-27 12:38:37	felco	Libre1209 I guess you can install dosbox, mount a dir on it with the installer for win3.11 and it should work
2021-06-27 12:38:40	mlu	Libre1209: you've never downloaded a Linux iso?
2021-06-27 12:38:58	Libre1209	the drive that I used for VMs recently crashed and I haven't tried restoring it yet (want to make a copy first)
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2021-06-27 12:39:40	Libre1209	aha, what and where is the installer felco
2021-06-27 12:39:46	mlu	you'd tell dosbox (or virtaulbox) to emulate a CD drive and the point it to the ISO
2021-06-27 12:40:00	felco	let me see if I can find one
2021-06-27 12:40:05	Libre1209	I have downloaded literally hundreds or maybe even thousands of Linux isos
2021-06-27 12:40:14	Libre1209	(had a booth at Linuxworld)
2021-06-27 12:40:20	mlu	neat :)
2021-06-27 12:40:32	mlu	inside dosbox, D:, setup
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2021-06-27 12:40:37	Libre1209	not thousands, but definitely hundreds
2021-06-27 12:40:43	rob`	are they still doing Linuxworld? I think I went in like ... 2001
2021-06-27 12:40:55	Libre1209	that was when
2021-06-27 12:41:01	-->	cornyst (~cornyst@ool-457890f2.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 12:41:08	Libre1209	and no it stopped
2021-06-27 12:41:08	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-27 12:41:14	rob`	too bad
2021-06-27 12:41:17	mlu	Libre1209: ah, so you got into Linux for work-related reasons back then?
2021-06-27 12:41:18	Libre1209	yes
2021-06-27 12:41:33	 *	mlu was just a kid back then :/
2021-06-27 12:41:36	easyme	Libre1209: hundreds isos, for what?
2021-06-27 12:41:36	Libre1209	no I hide the fact that I don't use Windows from all my clients
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2021-06-27 12:41:46	rob`	I mean, 2001 couldn't have been more than 10 years ago
2021-06-27 12:41:51	rob`	>_>
2021-06-27 12:41:51	mlu	Libre1209: that must have been scary,n ow you're 1337
2021-06-27 12:42:02	Libre1209	I ran a linux group for beginners and tried out all the new distros for years
2021-06-27 12:42:16	mlu	remember Corel? :D
2021-06-27 12:42:18	rob`	'member those $2 CDs you could order
2021-06-27 12:42:25	 *	msiism is glad there are hardly any new distros now.
2021-06-27 12:42:36	rud0lf	rob`: it's mindblowing that people from 2020 gonna see year 3000 in 80 years :o
2021-06-27 12:42:38	 *	mlu loved that 3D Tux so much he tracked down some clones and got 10 of them
2021-06-27 12:42:40	Libre1209	yes I used wordperfect until I found linux
2021-06-27 12:42:42	rud0lf	i've seen such twitt
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2021-06-27 12:42:54	Libre1209	and I tried their early attempts as well
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2021-06-27 12:44:07	Libre1209	I was part of windows refund day too
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2021-06-27 12:44:32	akik	Libre1209: in which countries does that work today?
2021-06-27 12:44:39	Libre1209	which?
2021-06-27 12:44:47	akik	windows refund
2021-06-27 12:44:48	Libre1209	oh it didn't work
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2021-06-27 12:45:17	rob`	I think it worked to the extent that MS doesn't charge OEMs on a per-computer-sold basis for windows licenses
2021-06-27 12:45:21	-->	ikex1 (ash@user/ikex) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 12:45:26	rob`	like, you can get a computer without paying for an OS from Dell now
2021-06-27 12:45:46	Libre1209	but it was done all over the world with press and volunteers who installed linux in front of the press on new (box unopened) computers with witnesses
2021-06-27 12:45:48	rob`	windows refund day was part of that larger movement
2021-06-27 12:46:07	<--	lsrtl (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 12:46:10	Libre1209	yes, that's right rob
2021-06-27 12:46:45	<--	ikex (ash@user/ikex) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-27 12:46:50	Libre1209	but the Dell story isn't true, you often pay more for the linux of no-os version than you do for comparable linux ones
2021-06-27 12:47:21	Libre1209	and I believe it has to be a different computer (in some technical sense) or windows charges retail price to for the oem
2021-06-27 12:47:29	Libre1209	but I'm not up-to-date
2021-06-27 12:47:31	PaulFertser	Libre1209: fwiw, that piano.vmf file plays in dosbox with that iwave.exe version 0.9
2021-06-27 12:47:41	Libre1209	hmmm
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2021-06-27 12:48:23	rob`	I specced out a Dell server just a couple months back, I don't recall even trying the version with OS and without. Should've.
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2021-06-27 12:48:47	Libre1209	oh PaulFertser ?  How did you do that
2021-06-27 12:49:08	felco	Libre1209 https://archive.org/details/wincollectionsbydocretro
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2021-06-27 12:49:46	PaulFertser	Libre1209: installed soundblaster driver as suggested by https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=9405 , then just run it
2021-06-27 12:50:12	rob`	just casually hitting up https://www.dell.com/en-ca/work/shop/servers-storage-and-networking/poweredge-r240-rack-server/spd/poweredge-r240/pe_r240_p1 - it looks like Windows Server 2019 Standard, is an extra $900, and Essentials is $400
2021-06-27 12:50:14	PaulFertser	Libre1209: but that piano.vmf file is different from yours, chances are that it's a different format altogether. You need to find some programs that generated them in the first place.
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2021-06-27 12:50:42	Libre1209	I mean the .exe says you should unzip it then I don't know what to do after unzipping
2021-06-27 12:51:11	Libre1209	I'm still just trying to get the .exe to work
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2021-06-27 12:51:28	Libre1209	and that file would be a great initial test
2021-06-27 12:51:52	Libre1209	how did you get the iwave.exe to work?
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2021-06-27 12:53:14	mlu	Libre1209: you'd just run it: type in the name directly
2021-06-27 12:53:38	akik	Libre1209: it's a windows app. do you have windows already running?
2021-06-27 12:53:39	mlu	or since it's a windows program, double-click it
2021-06-27 12:53:39	PaulFertser	Libre1209: ah, I just used "unzip" in GNU/Linux to unzip that EXE
2021-06-27 12:53:57	mlu	it's probably a self-extracting installer
2021-06-27 12:54:06	Libre1209	then what, I've gotten that far
2021-06-27 12:54:06	PaulFertser	Libre1209: and it gave me iphone.exe iwave.exe and plenty of dlls.
2021-06-27 12:54:06	<--	Elodin (~weechat@user/elodin) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-27 12:54:13	Libre1209	oh?
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2021-06-27 12:54:27	PaulFertser	Libre1209: yes, the zip file had a single exe file which is actually also a zip file
2021-06-27 12:54:37	PaulFertser	So I just run unzip twice
2021-06-27 12:55:05	Libre1209	I tried that but it just said "This program requires Microsoft Windows."
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2021-06-27 12:55:14	Libre1209	aha
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2021-06-27 12:55:54	Sauvin	A zip within a zip? That's... horrible.
2021-06-27 12:56:00	rud0lf	zipception
2021-06-27 12:56:02	mlu	this is a trick with zip files: zip files have a footer, exe files have a header, and zip supports extra data before while exe supports extra trailing data
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2021-06-27 12:56:15	mlu	Libre1209: yeah, gotta run it within Win3.1
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2021-06-27 12:56:17	rud0lf	Sauvin: may be a problem if you need to go to restroom quickly
2021-06-27 12:56:28	mlu	Libre1209: so in dosbox, type in "win" to start up windows (you'll see a GUI)
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2021-06-27 12:56:34	Libre1209	unzip IWAVE.EXE
2021-06-27 12:56:34	Libre1209	Archive:  IWAVE.EXE
2021-06-27 12:56:34	Libre1209	  End-of-central-directory signature not found.  Either this file is not
2021-06-27 12:56:34	Libre1209	  a zipfile, or it constitutes one disk of a multi-part archive.  In the
2021-06-27 12:56:34	Libre1209	  latter case the central directory and zipfile comment will be found on
2021-06-27 12:56:35	Libre1209	  the last disk(s) of this archive.
2021-06-27 12:56:37	Libre1209	unzip:  cannot find zipfile directory in one of IWAVE.EXE or
2021-06-27 12:56:39	Libre1209	        IWAVE.EXE.zip, and cannot find IWAVE.EXE.ZIP, period.
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2021-06-27 12:56:46	mlu	ok, so it's not a zip file
2021-06-27 12:56:46	Libre1209	oops, that ended up more than 3 lines  --- sorry
2021-06-27 12:56:51	rud0lf	thank you for a nice message :S
2021-06-27 12:56:56	Libre1209	oh mlu, thanks
2021-06-27 12:57:06	Sauvin	We'll forgive you - THIS time }:< - but yes, please use a pastebin.
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2021-06-27 12:57:23	mlu	2pts from gryffindor
2021-06-27 12:57:37	Libre1209	"Illegal comand win"
2021-06-27 12:57:45	rud0lf	Round 2
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2021-06-27 12:59:03	Sauvin	Where can this iwave.exe be found?
2021-06-27 12:59:10	 *	Sauvin is installing dosbox
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2021-06-27 13:00:56	Libre1209	I'm confused
2021-06-27 13:01:03	mlu	09:26 < akik> Libre1209: http://web.archive.org/web/19990501155428/http://rw2.rworld.com:80/dragon/cheech/iwave.htm
2021-06-27 13:01:23	mlu	Libre1209: looks like you haven't installed windows on your dosbox yet
2021-06-27 13:01:32	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 13:01:35	mlu	Libre1209: or are you on the right drive? i.e. C:
2021-06-27 13:01:38	Libre1209	true, I don't know how to do that
2021-06-27 13:01:46	mlu	Libre1209: so install Windows on your dosbox first
2021-06-27 13:01:50	Libre1209	how?
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2021-06-27 13:02:10	mlu	Libre1209: attach the iso, type in "D:" to switch to the CD, type in "setup" to start the installer
2021-06-27 13:02:15	Libre1209	I downloaded an iso, but do I need to burn it to a CD, but wouldn't I need a VM then?
2021-06-27 13:02:27	Libre1209	attach?
2021-06-27 13:02:28	Sauvin	And there's the rub. Windows is copyrighted, so we can't legally tell you where to get Windows.
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2021-06-27 13:02:38	TheWild	what's going to happen when I unplug the drive the swap is put on? Will it crash some programs or ultimately cause the kernel to panic?
2021-06-27 13:02:38	TheWild	(I gonna to TIAS but not right now)
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2021-06-27 13:02:57	mlu	Libre1209: no -- you just need to make the files available inside dosbox
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2021-06-27 13:03:04	Sauvin	TheWild, it might :(
2021-06-27 13:03:08	Libre1209	assumin you are in doxbox and have a windows  iso in c:
2021-06-27 13:03:10	mlu	Libre1209: https://www.howtogeek.com/230359/how-to-install-windows-3.1-in-dosbox-set-up-drivers-and-play-16-bit-games/
2021-06-27 13:03:11	Libre1209	what can you do?
2021-06-27 13:03:35	mlu	Libre1209: looks like you may need to extract the iso first to get at the contents inside
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2021-06-27 13:03:39	TheWild	stop telling Windows is sooo copyrighted, you fanatics. Who's going to care about 3.1.
2021-06-27 13:03:48	paulcarroty	TheWild: the crash
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2021-06-27 13:04:15	paulcarroty	kernel designed to use swap for less important data
2021-06-27 13:04:16	mlu	Libre1209: https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/MOUNT#Mounting_a_CD_ROM_drive
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2021-06-27 13:04:31	Sauvin	TheWild, I don't care, but some people do.
2021-06-27 13:05:03	-->	backleet (~backleet@user/backleet) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 13:05:11	mlu	Libre1209: looks like dosbox has a special command for this: imgmount D <path to ISO on your linux machine> -t iso
2021-06-27 13:05:13	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Quit: my karma ran over your dogma)
2021-06-27 13:05:15	Sauvin	I personally feel that older versions of Windows, since they're EOL, are abandonware, but bear in mind it's a *personal* take and may not be supportable in court.
2021-06-27 13:05:19	Libre1209	ugh it say to make a directory, but I can't even figure out how to do that
2021-06-27 13:05:32	TheWild	Santa Claus will write your name on "naughty" list
2021-06-27 13:05:34	Libre1209	remember I don't know windows or DOS
2021-06-27 13:05:43	mlu	it's important to warn people about the risks
2021-06-27 13:05:49	mlu	Microsoft is still around
2021-06-27 13:05:52	Sauvin	Libre1209, mkdir mynewdir
2021-06-27 13:06:29	mlu	just because you are unlikely to get pulled over for going 1mph over the speed limit doesn't mean that it's legal
2021-06-27 13:06:31	 *	Sauvin was at one point in time an expert DOS user but probably couldn't do jack with it now
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2021-06-27 13:07:04	akik	Libre1209: so did you test it with wine?
2021-06-27 13:07:15	PaulFertser	Libre1209: https://termbin.com/dl0g
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2021-06-27 13:07:30	Libre1209	haven't installed wine (and would love to be able to avoid doing so_
2021-06-27 13:07:44	hamtrax	So what's the "correct" way to share drives over the network?  Still Samba?
2021-06-27 13:07:58	PaulFertser	akik: I thought we're talking about win3.1 app, and wine doesn't support those.
2021-06-27 13:08:00	akik	Libre1209: you're seriously trying to install windows 3.1 instead of running the exe with wine?
2021-06-27 13:08:26	Libre1209	I have hardly any space left here
2021-06-27 13:08:31	Libre1209	I need to buy new media
2021-06-27 13:08:34	TheWild	akik: you think Wine reached the Win3.1 compatibility?
2021-06-27 13:08:38	tomreyn	hamtrax: samba is windows-lands, so if you ask me, it never was the "correct" way, whatever that means.
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2021-06-27 13:08:41	PaulFertser	akik: yes, that's what I tried, installed that exe in win 3.1 as wine is not able to run old win3 apps anyway.
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2021-06-27 13:08:51	PaulFertser	akik: and that worked nicely
2021-06-27 13:08:52	phogg	TheWild: the 16 bit stuff has been pretty good for many years
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2021-06-27 13:09:40	hamtrax	tomreyn haven't messed with any of this for years, not my thing, but gnome user share isn't what I need
2021-06-27 13:09:41	Libre1209	I am trying to do whatever PaulFertser did
2021-06-27 13:10:00	tomreyn	hamtrax: what DO you need?
2021-06-27 13:10:21	phogg	hamtrax: I recommend nfs, or sshfs if you don't care about the overhead and single-user semantics.
2021-06-27 13:10:22	akik	looks like somebody found a way to run a 16-bit windows 3.1 app in ubuntu https://askubuntu.com/questions/308671/run-win-16-bit-application-in-wine
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2021-06-27 13:11:28	rascul	the iwave09.exe appears to work fine here with wine
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2021-06-27 13:11:41	phogg	akik: in all probability the wine shipped with ubuntu would have worked just as well (with fewer steps)
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2021-06-27 13:12:32	phogg	two decades ago there were still some issues with 16 bit era programs under wine, but even then it was mostly working
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2021-06-27 13:14:13	Libre1209	when I unzipped iwave09.exe I didn't get all the files PaulFertser got, in particular I didn't get iwave.zip
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2021-06-27 13:14:56	Libre1209	the #linux channel teaching me windows,  ha
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2021-06-27 13:15:17	PaulFertser	Libre1209: see my paste and try to use the very same commands
2021-06-27 13:15:37	Libre1209	I did look at your paste and ran identical commands with different results
2021-06-27 13:15:37	akik	Libre1209: it's a stretch :)
2021-06-27 13:15:53	Libre1209	you got more files from your unzip than I did
2021-06-27 13:16:47	Sauvin	I'm calling this an interoperability issue. Somebody is trying to run something in dosbox.
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2021-06-27 13:18:36	hellla	There is war between Libera/Freenode. Don't suffer come to IRCdotFREEENODEdotCHAT <== new network for only chat.
2021-06-27 13:18:36	hellla	Come fast register your channel, first come, first serve basis.
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2021-06-27 13:19:35	PaulFertser	Libre1209: https://paulfertser.info/testiwave.tar.bz2 <- unpacked files that played me piano.vmf
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2021-06-27 13:19:43	rud0lf	i don't think there is a war
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2021-06-27 13:22:38	Libre1209	PaulFertser: https://termbin.com/n87g
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2021-06-27 13:23:22	hamtrax	Uh according to a tutorial on NFS i'm referencing, it says to "set permissions to 777 so everyone can read/write/exec in this folder", red flag red flag
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2021-06-27 13:24:23	Sauvin	rud0lf, there is a war. We obviously don't recommmend trying to use Freenode, but that decision is ultimately in the hands of each user individually.
2021-06-27 13:24:29	PaulFertser	Libre1209: ok, so you have iwave.exe there, it runs for me
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2021-06-27 13:25:03	rud0lf	i rented a web server that had an option "fix files" in web interface which put 0777 on every file
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2021-06-27 13:26:29	CommunistWolf	nooooooooo
2021-06-27 13:29:14	hamtrax	Soooo is that right?  Seems dangerous to make that visible to the network
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2021-06-27 13:29:56	Sauvin	Sounds to me like rud0lf got all "fixed" up.
2021-06-27 13:30:33	jim	rud0lf, yep, that's definitely not fixed :) that lets any user do anything
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2021-06-27 13:32:29	akik	hamtrax: it's wrog
2021-06-27 13:32:33	akik	hamtrax: it's wrong too
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2021-06-27 13:33:26	Libre1209	weire
2021-06-27 13:33:29	Libre1209	weird
2021-06-27 13:33:41	akik	i blame the wine
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2021-06-27 13:34:01	Libre1209	PaulFertser: I used your files and still get "This program requires Microsoft Windows"
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2021-06-27 13:35:12	Libre1209	I may need to go buy the new drive and install windows3.1 in a VM
2021-06-27 13:35:29	Libre1209	PaulFertser: how did you install in in dosbox?
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2021-06-27 13:36:20	Libre1209	you must have windows3.1 installed
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2021-06-27 13:37:14	jim	what is this thing you're trying to run? a game?
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2021-06-27 13:37:29	Libre1209	no an audio file player
2021-06-27 13:37:40	Libre1209	that handles the .vmf format
2021-06-27 13:37:52	Libre1209	or at least SOME .vmf format audio files
2021-06-27 13:38:03	Sauvin	Libre1209, does mplayer not play them?
2021-06-27 13:38:21	schillingklaus	audio file players may play the soundtrack of a game
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2021-06-27 13:38:41	Libre1209	no mplayer, mpv, cvlc, sox, etc, ... can't even recognize them
2021-06-27 13:39:07	Libre1209	file show it as: data
2021-06-27 13:39:44	Sauvin	!@#%@$#
2021-06-27 13:39:50	 *	Sauvin pokes
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2021-06-27 13:40:35	PaulFertser	Libre1209: I started c:\windows\win.com , then opened file manager, then started iwave.exe from there
2021-06-27 13:40:42	Libre1209	oh?
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2021-06-27 13:41:08	Libre1209	yes but how did you get windows on there?
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2021-06-27 13:41:42	jim	oh ok... so a vmf file is a "Valve Map File", which seems to be a half-life level file
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2021-06-27 13:42:18	PaulFertser	Libre1209: I downloaded that ISO from archive.org , did mount -o loop /path/to.iso /mnt , then in dosbox did "mount d /mnt" then "d:" then "setup.exe"
2021-06-27 13:42:26	Libre1209	aha
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2021-06-27 13:42:51	Libre1209	ok, that makes sense
2021-06-27 13:42:54	PaulFertser	Libre1209: installed just the soundblaster driver following https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=9405
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2021-06-27 13:47:41	Libre1209	how?
2021-06-27 13:47:44	Sauvin	jim, a .vmf file is apparently a number of different possible formats.
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2021-06-27 13:49:29	Libre1209	it won't install
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2021-06-27 13:50:00	PaulFertser	Libre1209: I just wget https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ve3ohhtks0wrnf/SB16W3x.zip?dl=1 , unpacked it, run setup under dos (without windows started)
2021-06-27 13:50:08	PaulFertser	Libre1209: after installing win3.1 of course
2021-06-27 13:50:10	Libre1209	setup is unable to create specified directory
2021-06-27 13:50:30	jim	Sauvin, I don't see any way to open one using linux
2021-06-27 13:50:32	Libre1209	I am having trouble installing window3.1
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2021-06-27 13:50:42	PaulFertser	Libre1209: did you run mount c /home/youruser/someappropriatedirectory ?
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2021-06-27 13:50:56	Libre1209	how do you create a c: drive?
2021-06-27 13:51:03	Libre1209	aha
2021-06-27 13:51:12	Sauvin	Neither do I. :\
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2021-06-27 13:52:17	jim	(meaning specifically, no application compiled or scripted that knows how to open it (and not macos either)
2021-06-27 13:52:33	Libre1209	yes
2021-06-27 13:52:41	Libre1209	let me check permissions
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2021-06-27 13:59:51	Libre1209	making progress now PaulFertser thanks for the dummy instructions
2021-06-27 13:59:53	vegetux	can you directly use an iso of win3.1 in vbox? https://archive.org/details/Windows3.1_201906
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2021-06-27 14:00:57	akik	vegetux: don't know about vbox, but freedos worked with qemu
2021-06-27 14:01:10	akik	qemu-system-i386
2021-06-27 14:01:13	Sauvin	freedos works in vbox, too.
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2021-06-27 14:01:59	vegetux	qemu is fine for arm (emulation), but it's easier to configure vbox for just run windows os
2021-06-27 14:02:21	vegetux	just my opinion ^^
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2021-06-27 14:03:11	akik	qemu is fine with x86/x86_64 vms too
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2021-06-27 14:05:21	Sauvin	I never ran anything other than linux or windows XP under qemu, but its docs suggest it's fine for lots of different things.
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2021-06-27 14:06:38	Sauvin	I mean, jeebus, do an "apropos qemu" if you've got it installed and it'll list qemu-system-{craploads of different things here}
2021-06-27 14:07:22	Sauvin	Thing of it is, I think I tinkered a lot to get what I liked out of it.
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2021-06-27 14:08:23	superboot	So, does anyone have any thoughts on the name we use for "free software"? I think the fact that it is so easily confused with "free stuff" (no cost) is a detriment to the free software movement. I wonder if we could come up with a better name. Thoughts?
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2021-06-27 14:09:23	akk	superboot: That's why some of us prefer the term "open source" to mean the same thing. It's something that the unintiated can understand (sorta, even if they're not super clear on what "source" is).
2021-06-27 14:09:39	Sauvin	superboot, "libre".
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2021-06-27 14:10:33	DrEeevil	akk: there are small but important differences - you can have something that is open source, but the license prohibits modifying it. On the other hand, having week-long debates about these concepts does get tiring after a few decades ;)
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2021-06-27 14:11:30	Sauvin	Libre (legally unencumbered, more or less) as opposed to gratis (Take one or two! No charge!)
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2021-06-27 14:12:55	akk	DrEeevil: I don't call things like that "open source". I (and many others) use "open source" to mean the same thing as "free software".
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2021-06-27 14:13:48	johnnyapol	"source available" is the term i see to refer to things where you can get the source code but not under a permissive license
2021-06-27 14:13:49	akk	For projects like that I say "The source is available, but it's not under a free" (or I might say "open source") license".
2021-06-27 14:14:05	akk	(Fortunately there aren't that many projects like that, so it's not a problem not having a short term for them.)
2021-06-27 14:14:52	superboot	DrEeevil: Haha, exactly!
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2021-06-27 14:18:49	uwharrie	superboot: some camps have been pushing the term "libre", but it doesn't seem to get much traction with speakers of certain languages
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2021-06-27 14:20:37	Sauvin	I'd suspect that people whose first language is not a Romance language won't engage as well with the term "libre".
2021-06-27 14:20:47	superboot	uwharrie: I suppose it's an actual word in those languages, right?
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2021-06-27 14:24:12	uwharrie	it's not a common word in English which is where I see reluctance to adopt it
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2021-06-27 14:28:14	Sauvin	I don't think it's a common word anywhere outside the Romance language world.
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2021-06-27 14:28:28	akik	romance?
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2021-06-27 14:28:38	Shaun	it is the root of words like ‘liberty’ wish are pretty familiar though
2021-06-27 14:28:44	Shaun	*which
2021-06-27 14:28:45	post-factum	is there a list of public NTS (network time secure aka modern NTP) servers? so far i've found time.cloudflare.com, nts.ntp.se and nts.time.nl only. thanks
2021-06-27 14:28:55	tomreyn	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages
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2021-06-27 14:29:38	uwharrie	post-factum: like https://www.ntppool.org/ ?
2021-06-27 14:29:41	akik	finnish has butchered that word's meaning
2021-06-27 14:30:15	Sauvin	akik, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Roumanian, a few others, lots of "dialect continuum" languages like Catalan, Provencal, etc.
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2021-06-27 14:30:21	post-factum	uwharrie: i don't think NTS is enabled for pools atm
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2021-06-27 14:30:46	akik	i think i would have understood that latin languages
2021-06-27 14:30:55	uwharrie	OK, wasn't sure if ntppool made the distinction
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2021-06-27 14:32:03	BlackMage	is there any redhat based distro for armv7a ?
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2021-06-27 14:35:16	BlackMage	ehh for armv7l i mean
2021-06-27 14:36:03	BlackMage	( 32-bit ARMv7-A )
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2021-06-27 14:36:57	uwharrie	BlackMage: from my digging, doesn't appear to be any, although there's Fedora which Red Hat is based on rather than being based on Red Hat
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2021-06-27 14:40:40	tomreyn	Red Hat is based on Red Hat?
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2021-06-27 14:41:04	tusko	Red Hat killed CentOS
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2021-06-27 14:42:20	uwharrie	Yeah, just switched a bunch of servers over to Debian because of that
2021-06-27 14:42:28	BlackMage	I'm looking for something like RockyLinux only for armv7a
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2021-06-27 14:44:50	BlackMage	What I think is a shame, CentOS was such a good OS
2021-06-27 14:45:45	hamtrax	I'm noob to NFS, trying to verify the daemons are running...  Can I ps aux | grep "service.name" or w/e?
2021-06-27 14:45:48	lacroix	post-factum: there's the generic pool, pool.ntp.org or CC.pool.ntp.org where CC is ISO country code
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2021-06-27 14:48:26	lacroix	(note: some of the servers in the pool support NTS, not all)
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2021-06-27 14:49:18	Sauvin	Hamtrax, kindly use "whatever" rather than "w/e".
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2021-06-27 14:51:29	lopid	or "weekend"
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2021-06-27 14:52:19	lacroix	post-factum: in some environment we had a contractual obligation to run within 10ms off GPS time.
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2021-06-27 14:52:37	lacroix	post-factum: so we have two GPS sources, and trusted network to time servers.
2021-06-27 14:52:52	paulcarroty	centos still alive, wonder why so many people crying about his finish line
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2021-06-27 14:53:46	onelegend	there is rockylinux now
2021-06-27 14:53:53	onelegend	for you CentOS users
2021-06-27 14:53:58	onelegend	and it's pretty dang good
2021-06-27 14:54:05	onelegend	definitely considering that for running a server
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2021-06-27 14:54:22	akik	alma linux has el8.4 too now
2021-06-27 14:54:30	akik	oracle too
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2021-06-27 14:55:16	Sauvin	Don't think I'd much care for Oracle Linux.
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2021-06-27 14:55:32	akik	all big companies do the same s___
2021-06-27 14:55:42	akik	microsoft, red hat/ibm, oracle
2021-06-27 14:56:19	PaulFertser	Libre1209: any luck?
2021-06-27 14:56:20	BlackMage	what it Tizen?
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2021-06-27 14:57:46	BlackMage	a Smartwatch OS?
2021-06-27 14:58:30	uwharrie	watches, phones, set top boxes, etc
2021-06-27 14:58:38	Libre1209	I got trapped inside windows and couldn't get out
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2021-06-27 14:59:25	akik	springdale linux seems to have el8.4 too http://puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.4/ but only 8.3 boot iso
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2021-06-27 14:59:42	catalase_	hi, i am trying to add some keys in ubuntu server 20.04.1 and i get "gpg: keyserver receive failed: Server indicated a failure"
2021-06-27 14:59:45	catalase_	any ideas?
2021-06-27 14:59:47	akik	oh they have the iso too http://puias.princeton.edu/data/puias/8.4/x86_64/iso/
2021-06-27 15:00:04	PaulFertser	Libre1209: Alt-F4
2021-06-27 15:00:22	PaulFertser	Libre1209: and to get the mouse out you press Ctrl-F10 . Got trapped that way too :)
2021-06-27 15:00:58	Libre1209	I got the soundblaster driver but no clue what I should do with it
2021-06-27 15:01:26	Libre1209	Alt-F4, Ctrl-Q etc. didn't work, but I eventually got out
2021-06-27 15:01:45	Libre1209	aha Ctrl-F10 good to know
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2021-06-27 15:02:50	Libre1209	linux is so much easier than window
2021-06-27 15:02:53	Libre1209	windows
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2021-06-27 15:04:05	PaulFertser	Libre1209: check teh vogons manual I linked you to 3 times.
2021-06-27 15:04:05	Sauvin	In many ways, yes.
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2021-06-27 15:06:16	Libre1209	oh? sorry
2021-06-27 15:06:28	post-factum	lacroix: i need nts only
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2021-06-27 15:06:39	Libre1209	I was on the vogon webpage but didn't see a manual there, I'll check the scoll
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2021-06-27 15:07:45	digital_mystik	anyone know if it's possible to unlock gnome-keyring with u2f, or does it require a password?
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2021-06-27 15:09:42	PaulFertser	Libre1209: also I've sent you direct download link to the SB driver already. It's from the same vogons manual page. And it shows how to properly install it.
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2021-06-27 15:19:15	jim	Hi, trying to get started with this combo of borg and borgmatic, looking for folks who use this too, and can tell me how to get started
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2021-06-27 15:19:29	jim	oops, back in a little bit
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2021-06-27 15:22:23	lacroix	post-factumq: With what precision?
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2021-06-27 15:25:21	clangLover	Hey, I am inventing a new init system called InitKit. It is written in C++ and designed to be fully object-oriented and fully modular by message-passing. It include a handy System Administration Console (written as a TUI using the excellent "Turbo::Vision" TUI library), the InitKit Internal Debugger (an init system debugger built into the InitKit Control Daemon accessible by pressing ctrl-alt-delete at runtime on GNU/Linux only, or Ctrl-C during boot o
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2021-06-27 15:25:26	clangLover	during boot on BSD, HP-UX, and AIX), and many more things. I will make InitKit have a systemd compatibility subsystem as well, so that we will solve the Init Systems Debate once and forever. Join us: https://github.com/InitKit/InitKit Join Us
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2021-06-27 15:28:35	DPA	My /etc/fstab.d/ is growing a bit large. "mount | wc -l" shows 1011.
2021-06-27 15:28:36	DPA	I hope my combinatoral explosions with mount won't cause me problems in the future... ?
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2021-06-27 15:29:03	akik	clangLover: why would people want systemd compatibility ?
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2021-06-27 15:30:45	akik	i mean if they want some other init system than systemd
2021-06-27 15:30:56	DPA	Product vendors / devs provide unit files, and distributors / devs refuse to provide anything else
2021-06-27 15:30:58	clangLover	akik: Because until I announced InitKit, the systemd was the most standard init system. But now InitKit will be the new standard init system.
2021-06-27 15:31:14	akik	xkcd standards
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2021-06-27 15:34:39	DPA	Now, this is disappointing: https://github.com/InitKit/InitKit/blob/main/cmd/initd/main.cc
2021-06-27 15:34:39	DPA	Looks like there is nothing there...
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2021-06-27 15:35:32	DPA	Or at least, a lot yet to be done
2021-06-27 15:36:06	Libre1209	PaulFertser: I am reading it, but there is so much I don't know about windows and dos it is taking forever
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2021-06-27 15:36:36	akik	DPA: fstab.d ? which distro has that?
2021-06-27 15:36:40	Libre1209	It even took a while to realize I needed dir instead of ls and all the other commands of that nature
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2021-06-27 15:36:46	clangLover	DPA: Yes, it's a work in progress. I completed my initial plan of the architecture Sunday and today begin to implement it.
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2021-06-27 15:37:02	Libre1209	and copy instead of cp
2021-06-27 15:37:17	Libre1209	still no clue how to edit a file
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2021-06-27 15:37:26	akik	edit.com
2021-06-27 15:37:28	JX7P`	Libre1209: `edit'
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2021-06-27 15:38:10	clangLover	I like Edit.com. It's a great text editor. The closest on GNU-Linux is Pico, or maybe GNU-Nano.
2021-06-27 15:38:12	Libre1209	it talks about adding stuf to a config.sys file so I am looking for that now
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2021-06-27 15:38:43	Sauvin	Yeah, I used to love edit.com, too, and I agree that nano is a close equivalent in some ways.
2021-06-27 15:38:59	Sauvin	Anybody happen to know if there's a TUI editor like edit.com ?
2021-06-27 15:39:33	akik	isn't nano kind of close?
2021-06-27 15:39:40	DPA	I feel like copy and edit utilities are, similar to most things in systemd, things I'd consider outside the scope of all of: an init system, supervisor, service manager
2021-06-27 15:39:40	DPA	Feels more like a distro.
2021-06-27 15:39:44	Sauvin	akik, only kinda.
2021-06-27 15:40:22	Libre1209	I am not understanding what to do to get the soundblaster driver installed, it seems I need to figure out something about the hardware resources of my audio card, but don't know what it wants
2021-06-27 15:40:37	Libre1209	oh how I hate this dos/windows world
2021-06-27 15:41:20	Libre1209	is there something like grep, how do you do redirection?
2021-06-27 15:42:04	Libre1209	I thought windows and dos had 'more' but can't figure out how to use it, a normal pipe doesn't work
2021-06-27 15:42:05	Sauvin	Redirection is about the same, but as far as I can remember, there's no grep-like command in DOS.
2021-06-27 15:42:06	DPA	akik: fstab.d isn't supported by any distro. It was removed from gnu mount, but support for directories in general was never removed from libmount. So, on devuan, I created a symlink /etc/fstab to /etc/fstab.d/, that tricks libmount and everything else to work as if it was still supported.
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2021-06-27 15:42:28	Libre1209	I feel like I'm trapped in hell in here
2021-06-27 15:42:34	Libre1209	not here, in dosbox
2021-06-27 15:42:36	Sauvin	Libre1209, try this: more < somefile.txt
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2021-06-27 15:42:45	Libre1209	oh
2021-06-27 15:42:50	clangLover	Sauvin: Yes: https://github.com/magiblot/turbo
2021-06-27 15:42:56	akik	Sauvin: lol you asked. https://github.com/gphalkes/tilde
2021-06-27 15:42:58	Libre1209	makes sense, but didn't expect windows to have that
2021-06-27 15:43:08	akik	https://os.ghalkes.nl/tilde/
2021-06-27 15:43:12	clangLover	I discovered it when I adopted TVision as the TUI library for InitKit. Turbo appears to be a good editor.
2021-06-27 15:43:16	Sauvin	It's not a Windows thing. It's a DOS thing.
2021-06-27 15:43:32	Libre1209	well it is the same world -- its MS
2021-06-27 15:43:32	DPA	type on windows is like cat on linux
2021-06-27 15:43:35	Libre1209	based
2021-06-27 15:43:54	Libre1209	oh thank you I've been trying and trying to find something like cat
2021-06-27 15:45:03	 *	Sauvin installs tilde
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2021-06-27 15:45:24	clangLover	I recomend Turbo instead of TilDe. Turbo is actively-developed.
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2021-06-27 15:46:38	Libre1209	until recently I had an old dx386 machine with DOS, I think, or was that converted to linux...hmm
2021-06-27 15:47:24	Sauvin	Jeebus H, tilde looks good!
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2021-06-27 15:49:08	Libre1209	where would the dosbox config file be?
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2021-06-27 15:49:40	jim	Libre1209, I don't think you're going to find a very complete unixlike toolset in dos, but yes there's something like cat as you found out
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2021-06-27 15:49:46	Libre1209	dosbox.conf
2021-06-27 15:49:58	akik	Libre1209: config.sys is in the root C:\
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2021-06-27 15:50:10	akik	oh right
2021-06-27 15:50:11	Libre1209	I never in a million years would have guessed it was type
2021-06-27 15:50:24	clangLover	Jim: He will find a Unixlike toolset for DOS - it is called Dj. GPP
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2021-06-27 15:50:51	jim	oh yeah, that's true
2021-06-27 15:51:02	Sauvin	I think jim was referring to a brand new install of dosbox. Not a lot there.
2021-06-27 15:51:08	jim	including a compiler
2021-06-27 15:51:13	Libre1209	I am trying to find the dosbox.conf file where I tell it where to mount what for windows
2021-06-27 15:51:32	Libre1209	I was mounting the windows directory on c:
2021-06-27 15:51:42	Libre1209	the initial dosbox is on z:
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2021-06-27 15:52:04	jim	Libre1209, on the linux side, try: find ~ /etc -name dosbox.conf
2021-06-27 15:52:23	Sauvin	Libre1209, have a look at ~/.dosbox
2021-06-27 15:52:33	Libre1209	oh, that was too logical for me since I've fallen through the rabbit hole
2021-06-27 15:53:06	Sauvin	Doesn't seem to be a system-wide conf.
2021-06-27 15:53:09	Libre1209	not there
2021-06-27 15:53:17	Sauvin	Might have to *create* one.
2021-06-27 15:53:19	Libre1209	and I did a systemwide search and can't find it
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2021-06-27 15:53:36	Libre1209	~./dosbox.conf would be ok?
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2021-06-27 15:53:48	Libre1209	would it find it
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2021-06-27 15:55:08	Sauvin	Don't think so. It needs to be a file in the ~/.dosbox/ directory.
2021-06-27 15:55:11	Libre1209	oh there is one but version specific
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2021-06-27 15:55:22	Libre1209	yes, you are right, thanks Sauvin
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2021-06-27 15:55:57	Sauvin	Mine is ~/.dosbox/dosbox-0.74-3.conf
2021-06-27 15:56:49	geirha	and according to man dosbox, a dosbox.conf file in the current directory will override the one in ~/.dosbox
2021-06-27 15:57:24	akik	all the dos afficianados came together
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2021-06-27 15:57:36	w1kl4s	is there any way i can grab device paths as they show in /dev/disk/by-id using lsblk?
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2021-06-27 15:58:01	Sauvin	64 people in #dosbox if there's anybody actually awake. :D
2021-06-27 16:01:28	Sauvin	w1kl4s, "grab"?
2021-06-27 16:01:28	w1kl4s	or do i have to resort to using lsblk mountpoint output and look up /dev/disk/by-id for matching symlink
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2021-06-27 16:01:28	w1kl4s	Sauvin get the value, i'm using lsblk and jq filtering to get only devices i'm interested in for a script - but that only produces output with devices in ( "/dev/sdx" "dev/sdy" ) format
2021-06-27 16:01:28	w1kl4s	basically wanted to get same array, but with by-id names instead
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2021-06-27 16:01:28	akik	w1kl4s: what uses those by-id names?
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2021-06-27 16:01:29	w1kl4s	further parts of the script, in this case it would be some sgdisk and zfs commands
2021-06-27 16:01:45	Sauvin	w1kl4s, and what form, if not sdX, are you looking for?
2021-06-27 16:01:56	akik	w1kl4s: i mean why wouldn't you use uuids?
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2021-06-27 16:02:14	w1kl4s	akik makes partition handling harder and not obvious
2021-06-27 16:02:29	w1kl4s	with by-id names i can suffix with -partx and have proper partition
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2021-06-27 16:03:31	w1kl4s	with /dev/ names alone it's tricky, like normal /dev/sda will have its first partition be /dev/sda, but in case of nvme drives it's /dev/nvmen0 and /dev/nvme0n1 and /dev/nvme0n1p1 for example
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2021-06-27 16:05:32	Sauvin	Colour me stupid: the listing in /dev/disk/by-id is all symlinks.
2021-06-27 16:05:32	w1kl4s	yeah
2021-06-27 16:05:32	w1kl4s	hence
2021-06-27 16:05:32	w1kl4s	21:58 <w1kl4s> or do i have to resort to using lsblk mountpoint output and look up /dev/disk/by-id for matching symlink
2021-06-27 16:05:32	w1kl4s	i just wondered if there might be more straightforward way of doing it
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2021-06-27 16:05:36	Libre1209	I am about to give up
2021-06-27 16:05:38	Gustavo6046	Oftentimes, the counterculture of a generation is the cool of the next. Can't wait until that happens with Linux.
2021-06-27 16:05:55	Gustavo6046	Libre1209: what happened? :(
2021-06-27 16:06:02	Libre1209	it says the audio driver isn't properly installed but I followed the directions exactly
2021-06-27 16:06:02	Gustavo6046	Is it DOSBox related?
2021-06-27 16:06:13	akik	Libre1209: write down all you did today. sleep. then try again tomorrow
2021-06-27 16:06:16	ice9	what does this mean? "Unless rcu_sched kthread gets sufficient CPU time, OOM is now expected behavior"
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2021-06-27 16:09:56	Libre1209	redoing it now
2021-06-27 16:09:56	Libre1209	no time tomorrow
2021-06-27 16:10:30	rudi_s	ice9: Sounds like rcu_sched kthreads are used by the OOM and stalling them could trigger it? But I'm just guessing. Where did you see that message?
2021-06-27 16:10:56	lacroix	ice9: there are many place within the kernel where you allocate memory and then free it via rcu. if the rcu can not work.. well you are allocating faster memory than you can free
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2021-06-27 16:11:01	Libre1209	I should have just gone and bought the drive I was planning to buy today (I'm running from a usb stick) and come back and did a proper VM
2021-06-27 16:11:18	ice9	rudi_s, in dmesg and this happens every time i leave the laptop unattended for a while and the whole system freeze until I hard reset
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2021-06-27 16:12:05	Libre1209	I don't want to risk damaging my only way of booting this machine
2021-06-27 16:12:26	Libre1209	aside from dvds etc.
2021-06-27 16:12:42	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:13:17	Sauvin	What kind of machine do you have that you boot only from a dvd?
2021-06-27 16:13:20	Sauvin	Or USB?
2021-06-27 16:13:26	rudi_s	ice9: Sounds like a bug that prevents the rcu_sched kthreads from running. Maybe a driver bug?
2021-06-27 16:13:55	ice9	rudi_s, is this also related? ""rcu: INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU""
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2021-06-27 16:14:27	rudi_s	ice9: Yes, sounds like the same issue. RCU is not getting executed.
2021-06-27 16:14:36	Libre1209	oh you missed the part where it crashed and won't boot
2021-06-27 16:14:47	lacroix	ice9: no.. it's different
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2021-06-27 16:15:21	Libre1209	so I have been (quite happily until now) running from a usb stick
2021-06-27 16:15:27	rudi_s	I stand corrected, please tell me more lacroix. (I'm not really a kernel expert.)
2021-06-27 16:15:30	lacroix	ice9: most probably its abuggy driver that does not use rcu correctly
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2021-06-27 16:15:58	Libre1209	thanks for your incredible patience with me folks
2021-06-27 16:16:16	Libre1209	I think I will take akiks advice too
2021-06-27 16:16:17	ice9	rudi_s, so how can I figure out whether it's the kernel or a driver and which driver is it?
2021-06-27 16:16:20	lacroix	Libre1209, hand cookies to everyone please :)
2021-06-27 16:16:32	Libre1209	but tuesday, not tomorrow
2021-06-27 16:16:33	PaulFertser	Libre1209: fwiw I didn't edit any dosbox.conf or any other files.
2021-06-27 16:16:38	Libre1209	haha
2021-06-27 16:16:51	jim	Libre1209, it's one thing we're known for :) I try to stop people from being too harsh
2021-06-27 16:17:12	jim	oh, did you find the config file?
2021-06-27 16:17:14	Libre1209	oh that was just to make it easier so I didn't have to do all those mount commands over and over and over and over and ...
2021-06-27 16:17:29	<--	schrodin1er (~schroding@4.red-80-28-73.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-27 16:17:41	Libre1209	you are comfortable with DOS PaulFertser, I am not
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2021-06-27 16:18:20	PaulFertser	Libre1209: I didn't really use any dos commands though
2021-06-27 16:18:21	Libre1209	yes extreme kindness found here today, I am quite impressed.
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2021-06-27 16:18:35	Libre1209	well you mounted stuff
2021-06-27 16:18:37	geirha	if you do   dosbox somedir   it will start with somedir mounted as C:
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2021-06-27 16:18:50	Libre1209	really?
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2021-06-27 16:18:59	Libre1209	I wish I'd known that one sooner
2021-06-27 16:19:08	PaulFertser	Libre1209: yes, I used mount but that's a dosbox command, real dos didn't have it :)
2021-06-27 16:19:30	Libre1209	yes, I know, by the way it told you
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2021-06-27 16:19:48	Libre1209	and the backslashes
2021-06-27 16:20:09	PaulFertser	Oh the backslashes, yes. I knew about them, I was a DOS user 20 years ago, that's true.
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2021-06-27 16:20:20	Libre1209	but it is something I had to keep typing over and over every time I rebooted
2021-06-27 16:20:29	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 16:21:02	PaulFertser	I didn't restart dosbox a single time
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2021-06-27 16:21:22	Libre1209	I was a DOS user once upon a time long long ago, though you'd never know it now -- the only command I remembered ...after a while... was DIR for ls
2021-06-27 16:21:46	Libre1209	you knew what you were doing PaulFertser
2021-06-27 16:21:51	DLange	PRINT for echo, TYPE for cat
2021-06-27 16:22:16	DLange	DEL for rm, COPY for cp ... does memory come back? :)
2021-06-27 16:22:16	Libre1209	oh thank you that was another one I wasted a slew of time trying to figure out until I gave up
2021-06-27 16:22:19	geirha	cd for ... well, cd
2021-06-27 16:22:25	Libre1209	ha
2021-06-27 16:22:32	Libre1209	and mkdir worked
2021-06-27 16:22:37	DLange	also push button for poweroff :-)
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2021-06-27 16:22:50	Libre1209	oh yes DEL does sound familiar
2021-06-27 16:22:51	akik	turbo button for turbo speed
2021-06-27 16:22:59	Libre1209	ha
2021-06-27 16:23:04	geirha	FIND for grep
2021-06-27 16:23:10	Libre1209	oh?????
2021-06-27 16:23:20	Libre1209	somebody just said there was nothing like grep
2021-06-27 16:23:21	Libre1209	whew
2021-06-27 16:23:36	geirha	hm. I guess find is a windows command, not dos
2021-06-27 16:23:38	akik	find is in the current windows version too
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2021-06-27 16:23:45	Libre1209	oh, too bad
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2021-06-27 16:24:17	Sauvin	FIND isn't really a grep but yeah, I'd forgotten about that.
2021-06-27 16:24:45	terminalpusher	how do I reset all application-specific volume settings for pulse audio? While an app is running that emits sound I can set its volume in pulse audio and it saves that volume for next time too. How do I reset all of that what it saved?
2021-06-27 16:24:49	geirha	it's like grep's distant cousin, that nobody likes much
2021-06-27 16:24:51	Sauvin	I thought I remembered using find in DOS 5.0
2021-06-27 16:25:02	<--	Ballerburg9005 (~ICH@dslb-178-010-062-022.178.010.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:25:02	Libre1209	good grief I have wasted (well not quite, I learned a lot) a whole day and what's worse I have wasted your whole days -- for real, you certainly didn't learn anything from me
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2021-06-27 16:25:47	Sauvin	Libre1209, I promise this: you've not wasted a single second of my day.
2021-06-27 16:25:50	<--	Unix7 (~unix@82.118.22.28) has quit (K-Lined)
2021-06-27 16:25:54	Libre1209	how can anyone live without grep?
2021-06-27 16:25:56	Dagmar	Give it an hour and you'll see at least three people determined not to learn anything whatsoever
2021-06-27 16:26:10	terminalpusher	I never need grep. I don't understand what people need it for
2021-06-27 16:26:13	Sauvin	Libre1209, it wasn't easy. When I found it, I downloaded it while I was still on a dos box.
2021-06-27 16:26:18	Libre1209	thank you for saying that Sauvin, but I don't really believe you
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2021-06-27 16:26:34	terminalpusher	I believe Sauvin
2021-06-27 16:26:53	Sauvin	I'm just sitting here chilling and chucking peanuts at people.
2021-06-27 16:26:54	DLange	terminalpusher: check ~/.config/pulse/default.pa and remove stuff? (wild guess)
2021-06-27 16:26:59	Libre1209	ha
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2021-06-27 16:27:47	terminalpusher	DLange: ~/.config/pulse/default.pa doesn't exist but the directory does. There's a few tdb files in it. Can I delete those?
2021-06-27 16:27:49	DLange	terminalpusher: also rm ~/.config/pulse/*volumes.tdb
2021-06-27 16:27:55	DLange	sure
2021-06-27 16:28:07	<--	zjmc_ (zjmc@user/zjmc) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:28:13	terminalpusher	they're named like 2d149fc2d4cde8a56d5bb2905ffb0929-card-database.tdb 2d149fc2d4cde8a56d5bb2905ffb0929-default-sink 2d149fc2d4cde8a56d5bb2905ffb0929-default-source 2d149fc2d4cde8a56d5bb2905ffb0929-device-volumes.tdb 2d149fc2d4cde8a56d5bb2905ffb0929-stream-volumes.tdb
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2021-06-27 16:28:22	akik	there's also ~/.pulse
2021-06-27 16:28:29	akik	of course there has to be
2021-06-27 16:28:43	akik	it would be inferior if it wouldn't have two config dirs
2021-06-27 16:28:59	DLange	not on Debian
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2021-06-27 16:29:20	DLange	what is the superior distro you're using?
2021-06-27 16:29:28	akik	ubuntu
2021-06-27 16:29:36	lacroix	post-factum: check also https://weberblog.net/nts-published-as-standard/ at the end of the page
2021-06-27 16:29:38	DLange	the one where you get two for the price of one :)
2021-06-27 16:30:55	 *	Sauvin pokes at "tdb database"
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2021-06-27 16:31:41	DLange	https://tdb.samba.org/
2021-06-27 16:32:02	terminalpusher	there's also ~/.config/pulse/cookie
2021-06-27 16:32:45	terminalpusher	but it's probably fine if I keep it
2021-06-27 16:33:09	Sauvin	DLange, you're sure pulse configs are related to Samba crap in any way?
2021-06-27 16:33:43	DLange	nah, just guessing from the tbd extension
2021-06-27 16:33:53	DLange	would be odd to use that for something not a tbd database
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2021-06-27 16:34:07	DLange	but then ... pulseaudio ... anything can happen
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2021-06-27 16:34:34	akik	i have those tdb files in ~/.config/pulse too
2021-06-27 16:34:39	DLange	tdb is just a very simple database that the samba people happen to have created
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2021-06-27 16:34:41	 *	Sauvin installs tdb tools and dumps a pulseaudio tdb file
2021-06-27 16:34:52	DLange	don't have to run Samba to work with these
2021-06-27 16:34:57	akik	they should use the dbus binary method
2021-06-27 16:35:02	akik	binary > ascii always
2021-06-27 16:35:07	DLange	unless you want to store them on a Windows server :D
2021-06-27 16:35:23	Sauvin	akik, text > binary for small databases.
2021-06-27 16:35:40	akik	i think i'm drunk
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2021-06-27 16:36:23	Sauvin	My head is half the size of Texas at the moment.  Getting drunk ain't what it used to be.
2021-06-27 16:36:29	DPA	Is there some way to have a different default gateway for a speciffic chroot? Network namespaces won't inherit the interfaces, and it doesn't seam to be possible to share them...
2021-06-27 16:36:44	DLange	Sauvin: don't buy the $5 a gallon booze ;-)
2021-06-27 16:37:24	<--	dylan_ (~dylan_@2405:8d40:cc0:24bd:d991:e926:63d1:9784) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:37:53	Sauvin	I drink so rarely and so little that I can afford the tasty imported stuf.
2021-06-27 16:38:08	zamnedix	DPA: source based routing (ip vrf) or network namespaces. to connect network namespaces, you can use veth interfaces or a macvlan device.
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2021-06-27 16:38:37	Sauvin	Man, my wireless keyboard is bullshit today!
2021-06-27 16:39:14	jim	not too bad right now, it looks like
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2021-06-27 16:39:56	Sauvin	No, it's freezing and repeating like crazy. The difference between now and last night is about two litres of coffee.
2021-06-27 16:40:28	Sauvin	(and about half a tank of antifreeze...)
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2021-06-27 16:41:26	Sauvin	Looks like tdbtool is the thing to do for manipulating pulseaudio .TDB files
2021-06-27 16:41:40	DPA	thanks, I'm reading up on "ip vrf" now
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2021-06-27 16:44:24	Libre1209	since we've been going back to archeological levels of windows, to put you all in the mood there is always this museum: http://savethesounds.info/
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2021-06-27 16:45:25	PaulFertser	Libre1209: if you shared a file under NDA with me I'd just tell you if that iwave works or not for your files. Probably this whole win3.1 excersise is a waste of time after all.
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2021-06-27 16:48:14	Libre1209	could be.  but I guess it is good to know how to do just in case there is something else I might need it for.
2021-06-27 16:48:28	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:48:55	Libre1209	I am not even allowed to have a computer repaired without first shredding the drive
2021-06-27 16:49:19	Libre1209	probably only about half are under the NDA, but I can't tell which half
2021-06-27 16:49:22	PaulFertser	Libre1209: I mean I could literally send you a GPG-signed mail with my real identity and a claim that I will delete this file right after testing and not share it with anybody...
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2021-06-27 16:50:26	Libre1209	that is incredibly nice of you.  But I might get it to work your way after a little rest or once I have a new drive there are many options I have learned thanks to all of you.
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2021-06-27 16:51:33	<--	cliluw (~cliluw@47.147.80.149) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 16:51:33	PaulFertser	So a gentleman's word is not enough for you, I see :)
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2021-06-27 16:52:24	mlu	some of us here are conmen, not gentlemen
2021-06-27 16:52:39	lacroix	conwomen too.
2021-06-27 16:52:55	DLange	gentlewomen
2021-06-27 16:53:04	lacroix	awomen DLange :)
2021-06-27 16:53:16	DLange	what a woman, lacroix ! :D
2021-06-27 16:53:22	PaulFertser	mlu: using real identities as in goverment-issues IDs?
2021-06-27 16:53:30	lacroix	D ;)
2021-06-27 16:53:43	-->	rrr (~omega@2607:fb90:6883:fb80:4a43:15f2:d8fa:83a0) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 16:53:56	mlu	stolen GPG keys, of course
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2021-06-27 16:55:40	PaulFertser	I'd like to learn more about any of the known stories like that.
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2021-06-27 16:58:10	rannnn8888	Hey how i can see my cpu have in the server ?
2021-06-27 16:59:20	mlu	rannnn8888: check /proc/cpuinfo
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2021-06-27 16:59:51	lacroix	and lscpu
2021-06-27 17:00:24	rannnn8888	if i have 4 and when i run srcipt i get usege 192
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2021-06-27 17:00:37	rannnn8888	its 192 from 400 ?
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2021-06-27 17:05:21	MrElendig	rannnn8888: lscpu
2021-06-27 17:05:40	MrElendig	urgh was scrolled up a few lines
2021-06-27 17:05:42	post-factum	lacroix: thx those are basically the same i've already found with some not working presently
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2021-06-27 17:05:53	rannnn8888	MrElendig if i have 4 and when i run srcipt i get usege 192 , its 192 from 400 ?
2021-06-27 17:06:04	MrElendig	rannnn8888: that makes no sense at all
2021-06-27 17:06:14	rannnn8888	MrElendig 1767  197  1.2 3244168 205696 pts/1
2021-06-27 17:06:19	rannnn8888	197 cpu
2021-06-27 17:06:23	MrElendig	random numbers without context doesn't tell us anyting
2021-06-27 17:06:26	MrElendig	anything*
2021-06-27 17:06:32	rannnn8888	ah its %
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2021-06-27 17:07:25	lacroix	post-factum: With what precision?
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2021-06-27 17:07:38	lacroix	post-factum: Do you need the client to be within 1s, 10ms, microseconds?
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2021-06-27 17:09:23	rannnn8888	MrElendig what it mean, How much do I use out of the 4?? https://dpaste.org/VA1f
2021-06-27 17:09:32	post-factum	lacroix: for microseconds i'd rather use ptp
2021-06-27 17:09:52	rannnn8888	the 180 and the 110 its % from what :X  ?
2021-06-27 17:09:58	rannnn8888	113*
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2021-06-27 17:10:50	lacroix	post-factum: That. but with ntp to internet, you're lucky if you can get it to 10ms
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2021-06-27 17:11:26	lacroix	post-factum: On public time servers, It would be hard to guarantee anything under 100ms or so
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2021-06-27 17:12:08	post-factum	lacroix: thx, but the question was about nts, not latencies ;)
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2021-06-27 17:13:55	lacroix	post-factum: I am aware. But if you need something middle-of-the-range, one nts server with a bunch of pool servers for extra precision may be an option
2021-06-27 17:14:09	lacroix	up to you :)
2021-06-27 17:14:17	rannnn8888	someone know maybe what its cpu% https://dpaste.org/VA1f
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2021-06-27 17:16:54	lacroix	post-factum: and for your info, the channel you're founder now here was the channel I was origanally founder in on the now-dead (RIP) old network :)
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2021-06-27 17:17:35	lacroix	post-factum, anyway, ntp does not like having only one, or even a few, servers; Hence the reasoning behind my question 'how far off 'true' time are you allowed to be?'.
2021-06-27 17:17:36	superboot	rannnn8888: What produced the output of your past?
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2021-06-27 17:17:46	superboot	rannnn8888: ps?
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2021-06-27 17:18:01	superboot	s/past/paste/
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2021-06-27 17:19:14	lacroix	If all you need is 'within one second', just a single nts server will be fine, if the requirement is '10 ms', I'd add a few more servers
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2021-06-27 17:35:57	lacroix	Coffee time.
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2021-06-27 17:40:43	c705	coffee time? i have coffee hours
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2021-06-27 17:46:52	lacroix	c705.. I'm a coffee lover too
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2021-06-27 17:48:06	TheWild	almost whole day f'd up due to sloppily designed core data types in C. It should be int32_t and int64_t, not int, long int, long long int, long long long int or whatever else. At least I haven't seen floats and doubles differing in size between platforms.
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2021-06-27 17:48:31	TheWild	C# got it right.
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2021-06-27 17:49:53	PaulFertser	TheWild: it's 2021 now and C99 was released in 1999, so more than twenty years ago, and you had inttypes.h since then.
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2021-06-27 17:51:16	c705	anyone know offhand if git clone grabs all branches, or do I need a flag
2021-06-27 17:51:19	TheWild	had there been updates to C?
2021-06-27 17:51:51	PaulFertser	c705: all branches by default
2021-06-27 17:51:55	c705	PaulFertser: thanks
2021-06-27 17:51:57	PaulFertser	TheWild: since when?
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2021-06-27 17:55:05	LordRatte	PaulFertser: They didn't C that question coming.
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2021-06-27 17:55:29	TheWild	wiki: The C11 version of the C programming language standard, published in 2011, replaces C99.
2021-06-27 17:55:29	TheWild	Yikes, I thought C just ended on C99
2021-06-27 17:55:29	TheWild	(googles "what's /new/ in C" :D)
2021-06-27 17:55:38	PaulFertser	:D
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2021-06-27 17:57:04	lacroix	TheWild: Not really, x86-64 systems are usually either what's called LP64 (32-bit ints, 64-bit longs and long longs) or LLP64 (32-bit ints and longs, 64-bit long longs).
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2021-06-27 17:59:01	TheWild	was there a case that int was 16-bit on some platforms?
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2021-06-27 17:59:49	lacroix	TheWild: `long double` is pretty variable, but `float` and `double` tend to be the IEEE-754 single- and double-precision types, respectively, on all mainstream systems.
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2021-06-27 18:00:14	lacroix	TheWild: Yes, 16-bit `int` used to be common.
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2021-06-27 18:00:35	ice9	which linux version had the initial support for the intel 11th gen cpu ?
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2021-06-27 18:01:11	TheWild	ugh! The core types are sloppy then
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2021-06-27 18:05:24	PaulFertser	TheWild: you heard about arduino? Still pretty common. It's using AVR MCU with 16-bit int.
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2021-06-27 18:05:39	Dagmar	...and this is why you use configure scripts that _check_ and set macros.
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2021-06-27 18:07:23	TheWild	PaulFertser: yeah, I heard of that
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2021-06-27 18:08:12	lacroix	TheWild: TI's TMS320C54x DSP has a 16-bit `char`, `short` and `int`, and a 32-bit `long` (no long long). Maybe a little obsolete, but I think they're still making a few.
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2021-06-27 18:12:57	--	Mode #linux [-bo *!*@172.58.187.191$##fix-your-connection litharge] by litharge
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2021-06-27 18:13:38	lacroix	catch you all tomorrow, have a good evening
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2021-06-27 18:15:51	jim	lacroix, nite
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2021-06-27 18:18:26	birkoff	why would there be scripts in /etc/rc6.d/ if runlevel 6 is reboot ?
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2021-06-27 18:19:08	jim	birkoff, perhaps to stop certain things, or prepare to stop?
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2021-06-27 18:20:36	jim	which reminds me... gonna do some maint work on this thing... back after awhile :)
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2021-06-27 18:35:47	user217_	hello. How I can identify app that running,  but not displayed in task bar ?
2021-06-27 18:36:01	mlu	user217_: what task bar?
2021-06-27 18:36:19	mlu	user217_: you looking for the `ps -ax` command?
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2021-06-27 18:37:10	user217_	is any tool like 'xkil' but with identify fubctions?
2021-06-27 18:37:18	user217_	*functions
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2021-06-27 18:38:36	user217_	*or like 'kcolorchooser' for colors identifier
2021-06-27 18:38:45	kulak	Is there a website I can report some hardware works on Linux?
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2021-06-27 18:43:14	user217_	mlu: https://itmages.su/images/2021/06/28/767959d1b5464e205bea918b85bd87b2.png
2021-06-27 18:43:49	mlu	user217: :(
2021-06-27 18:43:54	theproffesor	there is the community website https://community.linuxmint.com and linux-hardware https://linux-hardware.org/?view=search kulak
2021-06-27 18:44:06	kulak	I see remmina is in use on this screenshot
2021-06-27 18:44:19	kulak	theproffesor: thanks
2021-06-27 18:44:32	theproffesor	sorry about the LM link kulak I meant to hit delete on that one.
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2021-06-27 18:46:46	kulak	well, for what it is worth this cheap speaker works with linux in bluetooth mode: https://manuals.plus/imperii-electronics/imperii-bluetooth-speaker-b28s-manual
2021-06-27 18:46:54	kulak	model is B28S
2021-06-27 18:48:17	kulak	I bought it here, but that's not an endorsement: https://www.banggood.com/Wireless-TV-Bluetooth-Sound-Bar-Home-Theater-Subwoofer-Mini-Soundbar-Speaker-3D-Sound-Effects-360-Surround-Sound-p-1732426.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=USA&ID=6287849
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2021-06-27 18:49:51	user217_	kulak: this is just shortcut of remmina
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2021-06-27 18:56:03	Khaytsus	I've never had nay problems with bluetooth devices in Linux personally
2021-06-27 18:56:14	Khaytsus	Random cheap junk speakers to all kinds of headphones
2021-06-27 18:57:15	Khaytsus	I had have issues with headsets either not doing headset profile or ONLY doing it though..  but that seems to follow one particular bluetooth dongle I have.
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2021-06-27 19:00:10	autopsy	Hi.
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2021-06-27 19:00:30	autopsy	Why am I still using Firefox?
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2021-06-27 19:01:45	autopsy	I should be using Spiderparrot.
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2021-06-27 19:04:14	wigums	autopsy you tried waterhippo?
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2021-06-27 19:09:52	autopsy	wigums, I tried it but I drowned.
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2021-06-27 19:23:51	blackgatonegro	Once more installing Steam on Linux...
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2021-06-27 19:41:32	autopsy	Hi.
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2021-06-27 19:47:51	mattf	how can i find out what is  causing some "freezes" glitches idk how to phrase it. Everything freezes for a little time sometimes and if it is while i am typping it repeats characters then. Sometimes it doesn't happen for a day then on the next it comes back. I am on arch linux, qtile twm, picom compositor
2021-06-27 19:48:04	mattf	it happens during videos sometimes.. so annoying
2021-06-27 19:48:39	mattf	i suspect can be something causing a cpu peak for a very little moment. Is there something that can graphs and saves the history of cpu usage of all processes?
2021-06-27 19:48:59	mattf	i couldn't ever catch what it was
2021-06-27 19:49:07	mattf	is not picom
2021-06-27 19:49:20	mattf	idk if some sort of combination of various things could be causing this
2021-06-27 19:49:31	Sauvin	mattf, "i don't know", not "idk", please. It might be heavy CPU usage, or it might be IO saturation.
2021-06-27 19:49:54	mattf	IO as in disk?
2021-06-27 19:50:01	Sauvin	Normally, yes.
2021-06-27 19:50:28	Sauvin	Anything that goes through the IO pipes. Sometimes it might be network IO, but when it happens to me, it's usually disk IO.
2021-06-27 19:50:36	Sauvin	Is your keyboard wireless?
2021-06-27 19:50:37	Bashing-om	mattf: Running ' journalctl -f ' (follow mode) in another terminal might be helpful.
2021-06-27 19:50:39	mattf	no
2021-06-27 19:50:49	mattf	my keyboard is wired
2021-06-27 19:51:06	mattf	but look. Im watching a video and sometimes it haas these freezes too
2021-06-27 19:51:08	mattf	oh it just hapened
2021-06-27 19:51:20	mattf	this "haas" i only hit on a once
2021-06-27 19:53:55	mattf	could it be conky...
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2021-06-27 20:00:48	mattf	hah im thinknig it is conky
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2021-06-27 20:17:36	Wafficus	hey there, question about 'mkfs'. If I used 'sudo mkfs -t ext 4 /dev/sdc1' on a harddrive that already had an NTFS partition on it, does that mean it blew it away?
2021-06-27 20:17:48	Wafficus	I ask because that is actually my intended effect, but wanted to confirm
2021-06-27 20:18:09	tusko	Charcoal or Propane?
2021-06-27 20:18:11	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-27 20:18:46	Wafficus	tusko Propane, and propane accessories
2021-06-27 20:19:59	frostblade	propane always propane
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2021-06-27 20:20:14	niksen	I tell you what
2021-06-27 20:20:59	matsaman	Wafficus: I don't think that would overwrite data, it would only overwrite the record that there is data there
2021-06-27 20:21:23	matsaman	Wafficus: if you actually want to overwrite the data, dd /dev/zero over it once
2021-06-27 20:21:41	matsaman	if it's solid state, and the data you want gone is amazingly top secret, which it isn't, then physically destroy the device
2021-06-27 20:22:07	[[R]]	taaste the meat, not the heat
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2021-06-27 20:23:51	Wafficus	matsaman hmm well
2021-06-27 20:23:57	Wafficus	I used to use that drive as an old git drive
2021-06-27 20:24:00	Wafficus	super low profile
2021-06-27 20:24:09	Wafficus	I just manually deleted all the git repos from that drive anyway
2021-06-27 20:24:16	Wafficus	and reformatted it to ext4 with that command
2021-06-27 20:24:21	Wafficus	didn't know if I'm just good to go for now though
2021-06-27 20:25:16	matsaman	Wafficus: the chances anybody will attempt data recovery on it are low
2021-06-27 20:25:21	Wafficus	since I used 'mkfs', do I still need to use fdisk though?
2021-06-27 20:25:25	matsaman	the more it is used, the more the remaining data will _actually_ be overwritten
2021-06-27 20:25:28	Wafficus	yeah I'm not concerned, it was super low profile
2021-06-27 20:25:56	Wafficus	didn't know if I should repartition the drive to compensate for the fact that I used maybe like 50 gigs of the 1 TB drive anyway
2021-06-27 20:26:00	matsaman	if you have sdc1 and it's ext4, you're probably all set for a typical ext4 partition
2021-06-27 20:26:07	Wafficus	gotcha, coolski
2021-06-27 20:26:14	Wafficus	thanks matsaman :)
2021-06-27 20:26:15	matsaman	50 gigs of the 1 TB?
2021-06-27 20:26:26	Wafficus	yeah it was just for a Git repo backup drive
2021-06-27 20:26:36	Wafficus	I'm a bit overkill for backup drives
2021-06-27 20:26:44	matsaman	no such thing =)
2021-06-27 20:27:01	Wafficus	plus you can't really even find drives that are less than 1 TB too often, especially in the external department
2021-06-27 20:27:12	Wafficus	however I learned my lesson to not depend upon 2 drives hooked up to a Raspberry Pi
2021-06-27 20:27:21	Wafficus	I shifted over to a file server instead
2021-06-27 20:27:42	fling	How to forward desktop notifications from remote X apps?
2021-06-27 20:27:55	fling	Also dbus
2021-06-27 20:28:12	Dagmar	Write some code
2021-06-27 20:28:20	Dagmar	Read some docs.
2021-06-27 20:28:25	JanC	you can find external SSD/flash drives that are less than 1 TB for sure  :)
2021-06-27 20:28:26	Dagmar	Do the things.
2021-06-27 20:28:48	matsaman	Wafficus: what happened with the two drives?
2021-06-27 20:28:56	dylan_	fling: there is a push notif app, KDE Connect
2021-06-27 20:29:07	Wafficus	matsaman lets just say there's not enough external power on a Pi to power them both most of the time
2021-06-27 20:29:12	Wafficus	most of the time it was ok
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2021-06-27 20:29:16	matsaman	I think 2 drives hooked up to an SBC is fine, _but_ you still need a remote backup also
2021-06-27 20:29:23	matsaman	Wafficus: oh they were usb power only?
2021-06-27 20:29:28	Wafficus	but under high pressure like high downloads, one would just shut itself off
2021-06-27 20:29:33	matsaman	yeah that wouldn't surprise me if it didn't work
2021-06-27 20:29:35	Wafficus	yep exactly matsaman
2021-06-27 20:29:43	Dagmar	Yeah insufficient power is murder
2021-06-27 20:29:51	matsaman	we used a couple dedicated-power external USB drives on an rpi in a closet for years, no issues
2021-06-27 20:29:51	Wafficus	it worked, but yeah not great for consistent work
2021-06-27 20:30:07	Wafficus	I'm into data hoarding a bit, so it only made sense to move up to an Optiplex
2021-06-27 20:30:13	matsaman	but again, you definitely need one more remote drive for _actual_ redundancy anyway
2021-06-27 20:30:16	Wafficus	probably my power bill went up but who cares, love it anyway
2021-06-27 20:30:19	Dagmar	matsaman: You were probably picker about the power supply driving things
2021-06-27 20:30:20	fling	dylan_: will I need to have kde on both hosts?
2021-06-27 20:30:21	matsaman	storage is cheap, data hoarding makes sense
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2021-06-27 20:30:35	matsaman	Dagmar: I mean yeah they had their own power cables, it wasn't usb power only
2021-06-27 20:30:36	Wafficus	matsaman exactly. on the new setup, I got 2 separate 2TB drives that mirror each other in rsync
2021-06-27 20:30:37	JanC	might also depend on the RPi power supply, of course...
2021-06-27 20:30:46	matsaman	Wafficus: coooool
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2021-06-27 20:31:00	Wafficus	matsaman what's your file server like? I'd be curious
2021-06-27 20:31:10	Dagmar	Pis are basically meant to drive medium-draw devices like thumbdrives
2021-06-27 20:31:14	Wafficus	I kinda want to make an FTP server on my site too, but small goals
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2021-06-27 20:31:16	matsaman	give me a cheap SBC with proper GNU/Linux over some horrid preconfigured "NAS" any day
2021-06-27 20:31:22	Wafficus	Dagmar true, it was my stupidity
2021-06-27 20:31:25	matsaman	Wafficus: for local network?
2021-06-27 20:31:33	Dagmar	Go higher than that and there'll be issues unless you bring in additional power from elsewhere
2021-06-27 20:31:35	Wafficus	Dagmar I'm repurposing that Pi as a garden machine though, probably to water plants
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2021-06-27 20:31:41	matsaman	usually I use unencrypted sshfs
2021-06-27 20:31:47	matsaman	(with hpn ssh)
2021-06-27 20:31:50	matsaman	fast and just works
2021-06-27 20:31:55	Dagmar	Wafficus: Enh.  I blame external drive manufacturers being kind of close-lipped about how much power they need
2021-06-27 20:32:14	Wafficus	well I could have technically measured the power draw
2021-06-27 20:32:18	Wafficus	but after talking to a few people online
2021-06-27 20:32:26	Wafficus	like its only recommended like ONE external HDD like that per Pi
2021-06-27 20:32:28	craigevil	has a 500GB ssd plugged into a powered usb for his pi400
2021-06-27 20:32:32	Wafficus	past that, its just gonna be a bad time
2021-06-27 20:33:17	Dagmar	Wafficus: Yeah a little digging and youc an find out what the Pi itself draws under high load and subtract that from what the power supply you're using is rated for, and then laugh because the remainder is nowhere near 1a
2021-06-27 20:33:25	Wafficus	matsaman nice. What do you store? I've been getting tons of like full collections of stuff. Other week, full DOS game collection. Currently, all PS2 games I'd want to play,e tc
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2021-06-27 20:33:48	JanC	craigevil: sounds like a good idea if the RPi can't deliver enough power
2021-06-27 20:33:51	Wafficus	Dagmar what kind of Pi projects have you deployed?
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2021-06-27 20:33:56	craigevil	both the usb hub and my pi400 are plugged into a usp
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2021-06-27 20:34:10	Dagmar	Umm... various misanthrophic performance art pieces
2021-06-27 20:34:12	craigevil	so no chance of it getting shutoff
2021-06-27 20:34:22	matsaman	yeah mostly just movies & series & music
2021-06-27 20:34:23	<--	lemonzest (~lemonzest@user/lemonzest) has quit (Quit: Quitting)
2021-06-27 20:34:24	Dagmar	APs, kiosks, digital signage
2021-06-27 20:34:27	matsaman	but I do hoard games I've loved
2021-06-27 20:34:58	JanC	although I'm not sure how much power an RPi can supply itself given the right power supply?
2021-06-27 20:35:17	<--	matsaman (~matsaman@user/matsaman) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-27 20:35:19	Wafficus	Dagmar neat :)
2021-06-27 20:35:26	Dagmar	Wafficus: I learned the hard way that if you have an attack of the stupids and try driving a Pi3B with an 800mAh power supply with two small wifi sticks plugged in, you can f**k up sdcards really quick
2021-06-27 20:35:32	craigevil	hoards ebooks, i mean you can never have too many books, might be over the crazy hoarder limit at 30k
2021-06-27 20:35:47	Dagmar	microsd cards do *not* fare well when there's a shortage of power during a write attempt
2021-06-27 20:35:49	Dagmar	They will brick
2021-06-27 20:35:57	Dagmar	I burned up _four_ in six months
2021-06-27 20:36:01	Wafficus	dang :0
2021-06-27 20:36:07	Dagmar	Each time completely blowing away the code I was working on .  LOL
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2021-06-27 20:36:25	xinming_	Hi, now there are 2 daemons for manage printer in linux, cups and lpr, which should I choose?
2021-06-27 20:36:28	craigevil	that's why i went with a ssd, i have a 256GB sd card for backups
2021-06-27 20:36:34	Dagmar	So now I'm like "Yes let's get the loupe out and read the wall wart very carefully"
2021-06-27 20:36:37	Wafficus	yeah I'm debating getting a weatherproof case but for the gardening thing I want to pull off for automatic watering, I kind of want a Pi Zero so that I don't have to charge it more than a week at a time
2021-06-27 20:36:51	johnnyapol	xinming_:I use cups for all my printing stuff and have no complaints
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2021-06-27 20:37:02	craigevil	pi 0 are cheap
2021-06-27 20:37:06	Dagmar	Wafficus: Just get four 18650 cells and any old 5V charging circuit off Amazon
2021-06-27 20:37:10	<--	tkimball (~tkimball@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-06-27 20:37:28	Wafficus	Dagmar link me up :)  I would love to have the right idea in mind
2021-06-27 20:37:36	Wafficus	as in a dry cell battery right?
2021-06-27 20:37:42	Wafficus	I need something weatherproof
2021-06-27 20:37:42	Dagmar	...or just skip some steps and buy an Anker 20kAh battery pack
2021-06-27 20:37:49	Wafficus	cause it rains like every other day this month
2021-06-27 20:38:12	Dagmar	You need an IP-rated weatherproof box
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2021-06-27 20:38:42	xinming_	johnnyapol: thanks
2021-06-27 20:38:48	Dagmar	Or, a healthy disrespect for formal processes and a medium-sized tupperware container and some silicone caulk. :)
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2021-06-27 20:39:28	fling	dylan_: or do I need something like this https://bgstack15.wordpress.com/2021/03/28/send-desktop-notifications-through-ssh-x-forwarding/
2021-06-27 20:39:56	autopsy	No do your first idea.
2021-06-27 20:40:01	<--	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-27 20:40:03	johnnyapol	sending notifications through x forwarding seems like overkill
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2021-06-27 20:41:07	fling	johnnyapol: why?
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2021-06-27 20:41:20	autopsy	Dagmar, kids these days don't know about charging circuits.
2021-06-27 20:42:06	Wafficus	lol Dagmar
2021-06-27 20:42:12	Dagmar	autopsy: Well, I'm a stubborn git but Anker's battery packs do the same job and its' not a big price difference
2021-06-27 20:42:17	Wafficus	autopsy I want to learn a ton to be honest
2021-06-27 20:42:27	autopsy	I know.
2021-06-27 20:42:33	Dagmar	I've got a pi that looks like an IED but it's fine
2021-06-27 20:42:33	Wafficus	I actually have a soldering iron and everything too
2021-06-27 20:42:45	Wafficus	its just I've been kind of taking it a couple projects at a time
2021-06-27 20:42:49	Wafficus	just started a new job too
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2021-06-27 20:43:04	Wafficus	man dude, I never have been like "Man, all of this is so damn new"
2021-06-27 20:43:13	autopsy	I've got a hardddrive that has a pin missing on the 40 pin connector I need to solder.
2021-06-27 20:43:18	Dagmar	WAHO
2021-06-27 20:43:23	Dagmar	Are you SURE it's actually missing
2021-06-27 20:43:26	Wafficus	I've never had to deal with Docker, hadoop, ansible, hdfs, MongoDB etc
2021-06-27 20:43:28	autopsy	Yes.
2021-06-27 20:43:30	johnnyapol	fling:there doesnt seem to be a good tool to do this that i can quickly find, but basically the org.freedesktop.Notification stuff all happens over dbus, so it wouldnt be too hard to write something that just piped those messages over to another machine
2021-06-27 20:43:32	Dagmar	Like, did you _personally_ break it off?
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2021-06-27 20:43:38	autopsy	Yes.
2021-06-27 20:43:44	Dagmar	Otherwise it's not missing, it's "keyed"
2021-06-27 20:43:50	autopsy	I know fool.
2021-06-27 20:43:53	autopsy	Der.
2021-06-27 20:44:06	autopsy	Of course its missing.
2021-06-27 20:44:22	autopsy	No offoence.
2021-06-27 20:44:30	Wafficus	I'm at the stage though where I want to figure out a cool docker project so I can teach myself more of all of what I don't know from work though
2021-06-27 20:44:42	Wafficus	I just can't decide what's the easiest thing to deploy as a Docker app to be honest
2021-06-27 20:44:56	Wafficus	was debating IRC server, searx instance, Gitea instance, etc
2021-06-27 20:45:04	dylan_	fling: sorry fling i thought you meant like desktop notification to phone, i havent tried from desktop to another pc, but kde connect doesnt need an kde application just either bluetooth or same network
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2021-06-27 20:45:06	autopsy	searx?
2021-06-27 20:45:23	Wafficus	autopsy yeah I have an existing instance, but having had to manually set it up by hand was such a pain
2021-06-27 20:45:26	fling	dylan_: they are on the same hardware
2021-06-27 20:45:32	Wafficus	it sounds 100x easier as a Docker instance
2021-06-27 20:45:46	autopsy	Wow.
2021-06-27 20:45:46	fling	johnnyapol: X works by bindmounting X socket into the remote which is in a container
2021-06-27 20:45:55	fling	johnnyapol: is it possible to do something similar with dbus?
2021-06-27 20:47:15	dylan_	fling: i havent tried with the same hardware but could be possible, it only needs to be in the same network so it might be worth a try
2021-06-27 20:47:35	autopsy	Dagmar, yeah I was putting on a 40 pin connector and it wouldn't go on, so I klooked at the pins on the drive and they were all bent on one side, I satrightened limke 5 of them, and one broke off.
2021-06-27 20:47:44	Dagmar	Doh
2021-06-27 20:47:59	Dagmar	Probably easier to replace the whole connector, but it might be worth trying
2021-06-27 20:48:24	autopsy	Yeah.
2021-06-27 20:49:14	autopsy	I can't run it with a broken pin?
2021-06-27 20:49:23	Dagmar	Depends on which one broke
2021-06-27 20:49:27	autopsy	Cmon 39 bits on the wall 39 bits..
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2021-06-27 20:49:36	Dagmar	It's not likely to catch fire if you try
2021-06-27 20:49:40	autopsy	It was one of the ones in the corner.
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2021-06-27 20:49:53	Dagmar	It's just not liekly to work at all
2021-06-27 20:50:01	autopsy	Yeah. Hehe.
2021-06-27 20:50:17	autopsy	I was just testing ya.
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2021-06-27 20:52:28	autopsy	dbus or qbert?
2021-06-27 20:52:40	autopsy	If ya askin me. now..
2021-06-27 20:52:49	autopsy	I'll go with Qbert.
2021-06-27 20:53:02	autopsy	He knows how to get the squares.
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2021-06-27 20:57:21	dylan_	Finally an alternative to figma, xd, and sketch is on the making
2021-06-27 20:57:25	dylan_	Totally opensource
2021-06-27 20:57:48	dylan_	And its name is AKIRA
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2021-06-27 20:57:59	autopsy	SHAKIRA?
2021-06-27 20:58:02	rud0lf	the chosen one!
2021-06-27 20:58:10	autopsy	Whenever wherever!
2021-06-27 20:58:23	rud0lf	does akira mean anything in japanese?
2021-06-27 20:58:26	rud0lf	an own name?
2021-06-27 20:58:42	<--	rtypo (~alex@user/rtypo) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-27 20:58:42	autopsy	It means brave warrioor as everything in Japanaese means.
2021-06-27 20:58:50	dylan_	I think its a anime too
2021-06-27 20:59:01	Wafficus	does it have a waifu?
2021-06-27 20:59:21	autopsy	waifu, sounds like a disease.
2021-06-27 20:59:38	autopsy	"Do you have waifu?"
2021-06-27 20:59:43	Wafficus	just kidding
2021-06-27 20:59:51	rud0lf	it is a great anime, i recommend it
2021-06-27 20:59:56	rud0lf	classic
2021-06-27 21:00:08	Sauvin	According to Google, "Akira" mean "the sun" or "sunlight".
2021-06-27 21:00:13	rud0lf	oh
2021-06-27 21:00:19	rud0lf	thanks
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2021-06-27 21:03:11	 *	fling found this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Remote_DBus 
2021-06-27 21:03:56	fling	What is /run/dbus/system_bus_socket doing?
2021-06-27 21:04:34	fling	Will the remote be able to send notifications if I bindmount this?
2021-06-27 21:05:50	autopsy	If you bindmount it it'll bind up.
2021-06-27 21:06:06	fling	I can also proxy it
2021-06-27 21:06:16	autopsy	Oh lord.
2021-06-27 21:06:33	fling	proxy works nicely for pulseaudio
2021-06-27 21:06:49	 *	fling is a dbus noob
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2021-06-27 21:08:08	fling	$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS is not set and I have nothing about dbus in my env hmm hmmm
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2021-06-27 21:13:19	fling	ok, bindmount is not enough, probably need an env variable or something else
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2021-06-27 21:16:58	 *	fling reading https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DBusRemote/
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2021-06-27 21:19:31	fling	How to auth? :D
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2021-06-27 21:21:42	Kyv	POEKIT
2021-06-27 21:21:55	rud0lf	poke it?
2021-06-27 21:22:03	 *	fling pokes dbus
2021-06-27 21:22:50	fling	and it says DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID
2021-06-27 21:22:54	fling	Kyv: thanks
2021-06-27 21:23:16	fling	unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-Tvigjs8HOr
2021-06-27 21:23:20	fling	what is abstract? ^
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2021-06-27 21:27:50	Kyv	fling: I can send you a link to a nice human-readable article if you like.
2021-06-27 21:28:05	fling	Kyv: send please
2021-06-27 21:28:14	Kyv	https://venam.nixers.net/blog/unix/2020/07/06/dbus-polkit.html
2021-06-27 21:28:18	fling	thanks
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2021-06-27 21:29:07	fling	wow so much witchcraft, I also like the list of references
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2021-06-27 21:30:42	[[R]]	Kyv: what about cat readable?
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2021-06-27 21:37:12	Kyv	He has some bugs and mecha and stuff in ascii for cats.
2021-06-27 21:37:42	fling	I hoped for a one-liner
2021-06-27 21:37:50	fling	now reading a page with 36 references :D
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2021-06-27 21:37:57	 *	fling is becoming a dbus pro
2021-06-27 21:38:15	Kyv	[[R]]: and dinosaurs too
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2021-06-27 21:38:43	[[R]]	you're a dinosaur
2021-06-27 21:38:51	fling	Kyv: so this is not good enough right? -> https://bgstack15.wordpress.com/2021/03/28/send-desktop-notifications-through-ssh-x-forwarding/
2021-06-27 21:40:06	Dagmar	Rule #1: If it _works_ it's good enough
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2021-06-27 21:40:31	fling	but there is some systemd stuff happening
2021-06-27 21:40:44	rascul	ftp works though
2021-06-27 21:40:53	fling	fair
2021-06-27 21:41:49	[[R]]	rascul: so does a tin can...
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2021-06-27 21:42:05	 *	rascul throws tin cans at [[R]]
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2021-06-27 21:43:40	 *	[[R]] takes them to the recycling center
2021-06-27 21:43:56	[[R]]	sucker
2021-06-27 21:44:54	 *	rascul throws a lollipop at [[R]]
2021-06-27 21:45:12	 *	[[R]] finds a white van and puts the candy in it
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2021-06-27 21:48:35	Kyv	fling: that approach looks fine to me
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2021-06-27 21:49:43	fling	Kyv: where are they running the script? on the remote?
2021-06-27 21:50:39	Kyv	yeah it is basically setting up dbus on the remote
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2021-06-27 21:51:14	Kyv	its not that unlike how its normally done on desktops which lack certain accoutrements
2021-06-27 21:51:18	fling	but what to do if I don't have systemd anywhere
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2021-06-27 21:53:29	Kyv	depends
2021-06-27 21:53:37	Kyv	either adapt to your init or use a portable method
2021-06-27 21:53:56	Kyv	look which files hostnamectl affects, by example
2021-06-27 21:54:16	fling	do I really have to run dbus on the remote?
2021-06-27 21:54:22	fling	what about system instance?
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2021-06-27 21:55:10	Kyv	I might consider doing it another way if I could
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2021-06-27 21:55:44	Kyv	it is kind of a difficult thing to excise from a system these days, d-bus
2021-06-27 21:56:04	Kyv	even if you arent using systemd
2021-06-27 21:56:28	Kyv	but there are little mitigations, like dbus-broker
2021-06-27 21:56:33	Kyv	to tone it a little
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2021-06-27 21:57:03	sumthing1980	does anyone know virtual machine manager?
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2021-06-27 21:57:33	fling	sumthing1980: lxd
2021-06-27 21:57:51	sumthing1980	I want to automate creating like 50 VMs how can I do that?
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2021-06-27 21:58:05	fling	Kyv: I hoped to be able to perform this by just bindmounting/proxying a socket and setting some env variable for auth
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2021-06-27 21:59:06	[[R]]	sumthing1980: virsh
2021-06-27 21:59:15	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-27 21:59:17	fling	sumthing1980: for vm in {1..50} ; do echo lxc launch images:gentoo my-vm-$vm ; done
2021-06-27 21:59:42	fling	sumthing1980: for vm in {1..50} ; do echo lxc launch images:gentoo my-vm-$vm --vm ; done
2021-06-27 21:59:43	sumthing1980	dont I have to create them somehow first?
2021-06-27 21:59:57	fling	sumthing1980: --vm flag will make them vms and not containers
2021-06-27 22:00:14	fling	sumthing1980: launch creates containers and vms from images
2021-06-27 22:00:18	sumthing1980	I have 3 VMs created in virtual machine manager
2021-06-27 22:00:26	sumthing1980	I write that command in terminal?
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2021-06-27 22:00:46	fling	oh virtual machine manager is some app? sorry did not know this one
2021-06-27 22:01:06	fling	I thought it was a generic question
2021-06-27 22:01:17	sumthing1980	yes it is called that,
2021-06-27 22:02:36	sumthing1980	[[R]]: do I install virsh with apt
2021-06-27 22:02:48	sumthing1980	oh it is already there
2021-06-27 22:03:19	sumthing1980	I dont get it
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2021-06-27 22:04:15	sumthing1980	are virtual machines standardized in linux and the managers differ?
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2021-06-27 22:08:13	Wafficus	I installed samba, but how do I check if it installed the 'sambashare' group?
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2021-06-27 22:09:06	Wafficus	I ask because I created the 'ps2player' user, and used the 'sudo usermod -G sambashare -a ps2player' command
2021-06-27 22:09:26	Dagmar	I'd just grep /etc/passwd
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2021-06-27 22:09:37	Dagmar	er /etc/group actually
2021-06-27 22:09:57	sumthing1980	are VMs just xml files?
2021-06-27 22:10:00	Dagmar	That's genuinely the easiest thing
2021-06-27 22:10:22	Dagmar	sumthing1980: No, it's a little more involved than that.  The XML files are used by libvirt to instantate the virtual machine according to the things laid out in the XML.
2021-06-27 22:10:54	Wafficus	I mention this cause of this post: https://www.vikaskumar.org/2020/10/02/ps2-freemcboot-smb.html
2021-06-27 22:10:57	sumthing1980	If I want to create 50 VMs, only 1 is added to the system what do I do?
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2021-06-27 22:12:00	Dagmar	Script something together that duplicates the XML files (and modifies the appropriate parts) and starts the VMs _or_ you may take the slightly more complicated route and figure out the virsh commands necessary to create the new VMs entirely and start them up.
2021-06-27 22:12:13	Dagmar	The latter will be "cleaner" but slightly more worl
2021-06-27 22:12:14	Dagmar	er work
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2021-06-27 22:12:22	rascul	virsh has so much stuff it's easy to get lost
2021-06-27 22:12:24	Dagmar	DOn't forget to create the logical volumes necessary
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2021-06-27 22:12:43	Dagmar	sumthing1980: If you've not used it yet, try virt-manager.
2021-06-27 22:12:44	sumthing1980	where are the xmls may I ask?
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2021-06-27 22:12:52	rascul	virt-manager is good stuff
2021-06-27 22:12:53	Dagmar	It's _much_ easier for people new to this
2021-06-27 22:13:06	sumthing1980	do you mean virtual machine manager?
2021-06-27 22:13:07	Dagmar	sumthing1980: "Somewhere" under /etc/libvirt usually
2021-06-27 22:13:21	Dagmar	sumthing1980: No, I mean virt-manager.  That's the name of the program
2021-06-27 22:13:35	Dagmar	It's a GUI that keeps you from having to even look at virsh.
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2021-06-27 22:13:56	Dagmar	If you've ever used vSphere, it's like that, but without quite as many useless options
2021-06-27 22:13:58	sumthing1980	 virt-manager opens the program titled virtual machine manager
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2021-06-27 22:14:16	Dagmar	Believe whatever you like.
2021-06-27 22:14:34	sumthing1980	Im using it but cant see anything to help automate creating 50 instances
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2021-06-27 22:14:51	sumthing1980	exploring virsh now
2021-06-27 22:14:52	Dagmar	There's nothing in there to automate the creation of many instances at once.
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2021-06-27 22:15:08	Dagmar	It will, however, make it much easier to create the _first_ instance correctly.
2021-06-27 22:15:26	sumthing1980	ok I did that
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2021-06-27 22:15:54	sumthing1980	aha I found the xmls
2021-06-27 22:16:29	Dagmar	Mind that ou do not accidentallly point two of them at the same virtual disk or GUID
2021-06-27 22:16:31	Dagmar	Bad things will happen
2021-06-27 22:16:58	Dagmar	Likewise, do not accidentally duplicate the MAC addresses of the virtual NICs.
2021-06-27 22:17:10	Dagmar	_Very_ bad things will happen.
2021-06-27 22:17:29	babyface	can someone please explain why a partition created with GParted isn't writeable but a partition created with Gnome Disk is?
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2021-06-27 22:18:05	Dagmar	babyface: You probably created the partition wrong, or did not actually _format it_ with a usable filesystem
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2021-06-27 22:18:11	wirez	anyone use guix but stop? why you didn't like it?
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2021-06-27 22:18:54	Dagmar	There's no such thing as a read-only partition unless something has gone very badly wrong, usually meaning a disk hardware error
2021-06-27 22:18:56	gry	wirez: i used it back when my pc had some nonfree firmware. i got a thinkpenguin last year, which means guix would work on it. haven't checked it just yet.
2021-06-27 22:19:14	gry	wirez: so, first time when i tried it, it was in a vm. it lasted a few mins.
2021-06-27 22:19:31	wirez	anything you disliked?
2021-06-27 22:19:51	wirez	seems that everyone that uses guix stays with it so wanna see the other opinion
2021-06-27 22:19:54	sumthing1980	Dagmar: can I just make up mac addresses as long as they are unique?
2021-06-27 22:20:05	sumthing1980	the file says use virsh to edit
2021-06-27 22:20:43	Dagmar	sumthing1980: Yes.  WITHIN REASON.  Leave the first three hexadecimal pairs alone, since they are what's called the OUI and identify the hardware type.  The last three of a MAC are actually supposed to be randomized to avoid having two matching MAC addresses
2021-06-27 22:21:02	<--	rifl (~user@user/rifl) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:21:21	Dagmar	i.e., leave the 52:54:xx part alone.  The rest you can edit
2021-06-27 22:21:40	Wafficus	do you have to create the sambashare group though?
2021-06-27 22:21:43	babyface	it's as if a partition created in sudo mode isn't writable in non sudo mode
2021-06-27 22:21:49	Dagmar	babyface"
2021-06-27 22:21:52	Dagmar	babyface: Umm. no
2021-06-27 22:22:06	Dagmar	Wafficus: If it doesn't exist and you need it you must create it
2021-06-27 22:22:16	Wafficus	but is that normal for samba though?
2021-06-27 22:22:19	Wafficus	I find it kind of weird
2021-06-27 22:22:30	Wafficus	I would have thought the process would create its own group
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2021-06-27 22:22:36	Dagmar	Wafficus: Samba does not normally have any groups like that created fo rit
2021-06-27 22:22:47	Dagmar	It runs as root
2021-06-27 22:22:52	Wafficus	ah I see
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2021-06-27 22:23:19	Dagmar	If it didn't it wouldn't be able to assign permissions to files on behalf of users correctly
2021-06-27 22:24:25	Dagmar	Wafficus: Note that normally samba doesn't use /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow, so that might be waiting to trip you up still
2021-06-27 22:25:12	[[R]]	babyface: define writable and non writeable?
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2021-06-27 22:25:27	Dagmar	Typically you'll just be using smbpasswd to first _create_ a samba user (use the same usernames as exist on the system if you can) and then _enable_ the user and set a password
2021-06-27 22:25:39	Wafficus	yep that's further on in the post
2021-06-27 22:25:43	Wafficus	thanks for the heads up
2021-06-27 22:25:43	Dagmar	Cool
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2021-06-27 22:25:51	Wafficus	seems like the dude forgot to mention that he created the group
2021-06-27 22:25:53	Wafficus	but in hindsight
2021-06-27 22:25:54	Dagmar	That ther'es two steps involved is one of the less obvious pitfalls
2021-06-27 22:25:56	Wafficus	it makes sense
2021-06-27 22:26:04	Wafficus	he's just grouping users accordingly afterwards
2021-06-27 22:26:26	sumthing1980	I have a debian VM it uses only 65 MB of ram thats cool
2021-06-27 22:26:39	sumthing1980	if I install it irl will it also use 65 mb ram?
2021-06-27 22:26:58	Dagmar	It's going to use a bit mroe than that
2021-06-27 22:27:06	gry	sumthing1980: probably test it in a live cd first
2021-06-27 22:27:13	Dagmar	I strongly recommend allocating it at least 512Mb of RAM
2021-06-27 22:27:43	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-27 22:28:11	Dagmar	If it's going to have a GUI (Xorg will be running) then you should probably up that to 1Gb or it will be sluggish
2021-06-27 22:28:37	Dagmar	Some parts of some people's graphical installers will just quietly _fail_ if the VM has less than 1Gb of RAM.
2021-06-27 22:28:41	Dagmar	Isn't _that_ fun?
2021-06-27 22:28:43	sumthing1980	ok no for these vms I want minimal setup they will only run some php scripts
2021-06-27 22:28:44	bparker	standard ubuntu desktop install typically uses even more than 1GB by default
2021-06-27 22:28:49	Wafficus	hmm weird, I installed samba, but 'smbpasswd' doesn't exist
2021-06-27 22:28:59	bparker	unless you switch the WM/DE
2021-06-27 22:29:07	Wafficus	aka I tried this 'sudo smbpasswd -e ps2player'
2021-06-27 22:29:17	Dagmar	Wafficus: Weird.  It should really be there
2021-06-27 22:29:37	kaneda	sounds like a path issue
2021-06-27 22:29:46	Wafficus	sam@fedoraserver /etc/samba $ sudo smbpasswd -e ps2player
2021-06-27 22:29:46	Wafficus	sudo: smbpasswd: command not found
2021-06-27 22:29:48	Dagmar	Do a `yum whatprovides smbpasswd` or whatever you're doing with apt etc
2021-06-27 22:29:51	Wafficus	:/
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2021-06-27 22:29:58	kaneda	smbpasswd is part of samba
2021-06-27 22:29:59	Wafficus	kk will do
2021-06-27 22:30:04	bparker	apt-file search smbpasswd
2021-06-27 22:30:07	bparker	is the equivalent
2021-06-27 22:30:09	Dagmar	It _shoudl_ be there.  It's probbaly just not in the path
2021-06-27 22:30:17	kaneda	yeh, sounds like a path issue
2021-06-27 22:30:20	sumthing1980	so VMs are xml files and the qCow2 format images?
2021-06-27 22:30:26	kaneda	sudo doesn't source the env without flags
2021-06-27 22:30:28	Dagmar	Or maybe some bright summer child decided it needed to be moved into samba-utils
2021-06-27 22:30:52	bparker	sumthing1980: not exactly
2021-06-27 22:30:59	Wafficus	output of that yum command: Filename    : /usr/bin/smbpasswd
2021-06-27 22:31:12	bparker	libvirt defines its VM config with xml files, but that just gets translated to command-line arguments to qemu
2021-06-27 22:31:20	bparker	and qcow2 isn't the only supported storage format
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2021-06-27 22:31:36	Dagmar	sumthing1980: The format you speak of is probably the least useful one
2021-06-27 22:31:37	kaneda	sudo -E env "PATH=$PATH:/usr/bin" smbpasswd
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2021-06-27 22:31:44	kaneda	or just use the whole path
2021-06-27 22:31:53	sumthing1980	not my choice I just want to get this going
2021-06-27 22:32:35	Dagmar	If you have space free in a volume group it's completely fine with being told to use logical volumes as disks
2021-06-27 22:34:03	cornfeedhobo	I am struggling to search this, so hail mary question here: has anyone used something like minicom to connect to a serial console using a usb-a to usb-a connection? everything I find documentation for focuses on rs232 conversion/adapters :(
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2021-06-27 22:34:33	Dagmar	cornfeedhobo: If you have an actual USB serial dongle, minicom is still teh thing to use.
2021-06-27 22:34:42	bparker	cornfeedhobo: why do you expect that to work?
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2021-06-27 22:34:49	Dagmar	As far as you're concerned it'll be just another serial port, albeit with a funny name
2021-06-27 22:35:00	<--	shredder (~user@user/shredder) has quit (Quit: quitting)
2021-06-27 22:35:01	Dagmar	USB is not usable as a serial device directly
2021-06-27 22:35:11	bparker	and A-to-A cables can be quite dangerous
2021-06-27 22:35:21	[[R]]	cornfeedhobo: usb a to a cables are illegal
2021-06-27 22:35:27	cornfeedhobo	lol
2021-06-27 22:35:32	[[R]]	cornfeedhobo: and the question makes no sense
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2021-06-27 22:35:36	Dagmar	HOPFULLY whatever device has that USB-A port will just be pretending to be a serial dongle
2021-06-27 22:35:37	bparker	[[R]]: I have some
2021-06-27 22:35:47	fling	cornfeedhobo: make sure one of your devices is not in host mode
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2021-06-27 22:36:11	Wafficus	Apparently it was present in 'samba-common-tools' package on Fedora's 'dnf' package manager
2021-06-27 22:36:17	fling	[[R]]: only in few countries
2021-06-27 22:36:19	Wafficus	thanks for the heads up to check different packages Dagmar
2021-06-27 22:36:24	Dagmar	fling: I'm jsut hoping he's not attempting to simply connect two PCs via a USB cable like that
2021-06-27 22:36:46	fling	Dagmar: sure, even if legal
2021-06-27 22:36:47	Dagmar	Wafficus: Wow that's kind of annoying, but at least it's only a minor annoyance
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2021-06-27 22:36:50	bparker	the bigger question is where they even got such a cable
2021-06-27 22:36:59	cornfeedhobo	so, the use case is a switch that exposes serial over rj45 and usb. I don't have a rj45 to usb console converter, but I do happen to have a few a-to-a cables. so I got to thinking, if it's able to expose console over usb, i should be able to read it /shrug
2021-06-27 22:37:04	Wafficus	Got it in my notes, so we're good :)
2021-06-27 22:37:10	Wafficus	for the future *
2021-06-27 22:37:11	Dagmar	A-to-A isn't _that_ uncommon.  It's just not normally a useful cable
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2021-06-27 22:37:22	Dagmar	...and at least it's not an RJ45 to NEMA15 adapter.
2021-06-27 22:37:23	cornfeedhobo	^
2021-06-27 22:38:06	bparker	what kind of switch exposes serial over usb-a ?
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2021-06-27 22:38:11	TomTheDragon	USB A-to-A can be very useful depending on what you're trying to attach.
2021-06-27 22:38:14	bparker	are you sure that's what it is
2021-06-27 22:38:15	fling	Dagmar: male-to-male are pretty common, they are often found in a closet.
2021-06-27 22:38:16	cornfeedhobo	bparker: a-to-a cables are standard use in the wireless VR world
2021-06-27 22:38:18	Dagmar	I have no idea but eventually someone probably will
2021-06-27 22:38:20	[[R]]	you have a switch that has console over usb, and it has an A and not a B port?
2021-06-27 22:38:23	[[R]]	are you sure?
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2021-06-27 22:38:29	Dagmar	For sure seeing RJ45 serial connectors is getting OLD
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2021-06-27 22:38:52	cornfeedhobo	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=R: yes. it's a ruckus. you can google images.
2021-06-27 22:38:55	Dagmar	cornfeedhobo: Uhh what VR units are using _A_?
2021-06-27 22:39:03	cornfeedhobo	ugh. sorry.
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2021-06-27 22:39:08	bparker	for cisco stuff I use rj45 to db9 cables with a real serial port adapter in a PC (usb ones can have weird timing issues)
2021-06-27 22:39:25	TomTheDragon	e.g. a tv box I have uses one of the USB-A ports (female) as a debug console
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2021-06-27 22:39:48	cornfeedhobo	Dagmar: not relevant, but the vive wireless does.
2021-06-27 22:40:14	cornfeedhobo	I have another use case for these cables, but i can't remember what it is
2021-06-27 22:40:19	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-27 22:40:30	cornfeedhobo	either way, i have them, and i have a usb-a serial host.
2021-06-27 22:40:45	[[R]]	well if you're not worried about bowing up yoru devicd or your computer
2021-06-27 22:40:45	[[R]]	go for it
2021-06-27 22:40:46	[[R]]	blowing*
2021-06-27 22:40:53	sumthing1980	can I manually create VMs or duplicate them by editing a file?
2021-06-27 22:41:01	bparker	my A-A cables are used to download from my hidden cameras, ones that look like (and function like) USB wall chargers
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2021-06-27 22:41:11	sumthing1980	*and create xml and disk files?
2021-06-27 22:41:49	<--	richbridger (~richbridg@213-225-5-235.nat.highway.a1.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:41:50	cornfeedhobo	[[R]]: lol had to change my client settings just to be able to type your username. well done :p
2021-06-27 22:41:54	rascul	sumthing1980 virsh can create a vm from some xml that you give it but i don't remember how
2021-06-27 22:41:58	bparker	nice client
2021-06-27 22:42:06	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-27 22:42:08	bparker	rascul: virsh import I think
2021-06-27 22:42:20	<--	lord| (~lordpipe@user/lordpipe) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:42:20	bparker	and the opposite is dumpxml
2021-06-27 22:42:28	sumthing1980	not import
2021-06-27 22:42:35	bparker	just using qemu directly is much easier though.
2021-06-27 22:42:35	sumthing1980	unknown command
2021-06-27 22:42:54	rascul	'virsh create' maybe
2021-06-27 22:42:58	cornfeedhobo	i feel like i got a ton of questions and answers, but none of them related to my actual question, except from fling (thank you btw)
2021-06-27 22:43:16	bparker	oops yea, virsh create or virsh define
2021-06-27 22:43:17	fling	cornfeedhobo: yw, you might also like this one https://www.dpbuildingsystems.co.uk/cabconfig/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Image-5.jpg
2021-06-27 22:43:22	sumthing1980	yes create
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2021-06-27 22:44:07	cornfeedhobo	i see
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2021-06-27 22:44:35	cornfeedhobo	well, good to know efnet trolls found a home here too :D
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2021-06-27 22:46:05	fling	cornfeedhobo: you just happened to find a male-to-male cable in your closet.
2021-06-27 22:46:48	cornfeedhobo	fling: i don't think subtle homophobia is funny, sorry buddy.
2021-06-27 22:47:03	 *	raccoon_dog raises an eyebrow.
2021-06-27 22:47:38	sumthing1980	is there a easy way to change the disk size in VMs?
2021-06-27 22:47:42	-->	arcturus (~arcturus@gateway/tor-sasl/arcturus) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 22:48:00	fling	There are also usb gender changers for when you don't have such a cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HAVUNJ4/
2021-06-27 22:48:09	Sauvin	sumthing1980, probably depends on the VM.
2021-06-27 22:48:10	Dagmar	That depends on your definition of "easy"
2021-06-27 22:48:10	cornfeedhobo	well, this has been a depressing exchange. asked a simple technical question, and ended in an exchange about sexual orientation. awesome.
2021-06-27 22:48:20	<--	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-27 22:49:12	Dagmar	Generally it's easier if you use LVM within your VMs.  Then you can _add_ a new disk at any time and simply add it to the volume group
2021-06-27 22:49:27	Dagmar	Trying to enlarge the qcow or logical volume is a pain in the butt
2021-06-27 22:49:36	sumthing1980	ok
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2021-06-27 22:49:47	fling	cornfeedhobo: chill, adapters are not sexual
2021-06-27 22:49:56	sumthing1980	what do other people use VMs for at home?
2021-06-27 22:50:16	Sauvin	Adaptors might not be sexual, but they most definitely have gender.
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2021-06-27 22:51:06	arcturus	theres got to be some less loaded alternatives
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2021-06-27 22:51:13	arcturus	positive/negative etc
2021-06-27 22:51:17	cornfeedhobo	Sauvin: and isn't it so funny when someone twists that! How great it is to be in elementary school again!
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2021-06-27 22:52:23	Dagmar	We are _not_ letting the alphabet crew rename our bloody connectors.
2021-06-27 22:52:25	Wafficus	question about installing multiple distros on one box. On my SSD on the desktop, I have installed Jackalpup, which had its own ext4, boot, and swap partitions. I created a newer ext4 partition to just install Ubuntu Studio onto it, but it was complaining that it was not sufficient. What else would be needed in that given scenario?
2021-06-27 22:52:44	<--	bin101 (~bin101@user/bin101) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:53:11	Dagmar	More unused space because it's going to want to make it's own /boot partition as well
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2021-06-27 22:55:16	Wafficus	dang I can't win in that scenario can I then
2021-06-27 22:55:27	Wafficus	the only other thing I looked into was extended partitions in this kind of scenario
2021-06-27 22:55:37	Wafficus	since you're only allowed 4 main partitions even with UEFI
2021-06-27 22:55:42	<--	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:55:46	Dagmar	This is where you take a moment to regret your decision to not use GPT.
2021-06-27 22:55:59	Wafficus	well thankfully
2021-06-27 22:56:08	Wafficus	to be honest, Jackalpup was just to explore some cool audio stuff
2021-06-27 22:56:10	Dagmar	You're hitting a 4-partition limit because you're using the old (MBR) style of partitioning
2021-06-27 22:56:18	Wafficus	which by the way, awesome distro
2021-06-27 22:56:33	Dagmar	GPT does not have this limitation, and anything that can boot via UEFI will certainly support GPT disks.
2021-06-27 22:56:46	Wafficus	hmm gotcha, should have used GPT in that case I see
2021-06-27 22:57:00	Dagmar	Try not to look directly at the GUIDs
2021-06-27 22:57:01	Dagmar	Heh
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2021-06-27 22:57:21	Dagmar	Thank god everything gives us short numbers to enter for partition type
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2021-06-27 22:57:39	Wafficus	I tried to restart the smb and nmb services from Samba on fedora but that didn't work: sudo systemctl restart smbd nmbd
2021-06-27 22:57:54	Wafficus	Failed to restart smbd.service: Unit smbd.service not found.
2021-06-27 22:57:54	Wafficus	Failed to restart nmbd.service: Unit nmbd.service not found.
2021-06-27 22:57:54	Dagmar	You don't geenrally need to start nmbd at all
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2021-06-27 22:58:06	Wafficus	I tried smb.service too: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/404632/restarting-a-service-on-red-hat-and-where-are-the-services-listed
2021-06-27 22:58:09	Wafficus	^ as per that post
2021-06-27 22:58:09	Dagmar	They _might_ have actually just named it 'samba'
2021-06-27 22:58:18	<--	Umbire (~UmbireThe@user/umbire) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-27 22:58:22	Wafficus	at this point, you're probably right
2021-06-27 22:58:27	Wafficus	what's nmb's real name then?
2021-06-27 22:58:35	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Quit: my karma ran over your dogma)
2021-06-27 22:58:47	Dagmar	I flip between Cent, RHEL, Slackware, Debian, and Raspbian so frequently I don't remember what their service names are most of the time
2021-06-27 22:59:02	Wafficus	yeah it was 'samba.service'
2021-06-27 22:59:11	Dagmar	Wafficus: You basically don't need to worry about nmbd anymore
2021-06-27 22:59:25	Wafficus	gotcha
2021-06-27 22:59:31	Dagmar	I *think* it's mainly only relevant for netbios name resolution
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2021-06-27 22:59:59	Dagmar	I have samba servers in production, even bound to AD, but on none of them have I had to worry about nmbd specifically
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2021-06-27 23:01:05	sumthing1980	command is virt-clone to clone a VM
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2021-06-27 23:01:52	Wafficus	keep in mind though, this is for a Sony PS2 Dagmar
2021-06-27 23:01:56	Wafficus	so it might be applicable
2021-06-27 23:02:09	Wafficus	like the end result is to share games from a samba share to a Sony PS2, might be old enough to need it
2021-06-27 23:04:08	Wafficus	Dagmar what's a good tool to deploy LDAP on Linux?
2021-06-27 23:04:22	Dagmar	HAH
2021-06-27 23:04:26	Wafficus	I ask because I've used Apache Directory Studio in an Ubuntu VM on Virtualbox, and its ok but I wanted an easier way to do this
2021-06-27 23:04:28	Dagmar	You're funny.
2021-06-27 23:04:34	Wafficus	ok, fine, its not easy ;)
2021-06-27 23:04:39	Dagmar	OpenLDAP.
2021-06-27 23:04:49	Wafficus	I've had to learn this for work to tap into a a Docker app for work
2021-06-27 23:04:53	Dagmar	...and yeah it's always a pain because LDAP is definitely complex.
2021-06-27 23:05:03	Dagmar	...but at least it's not AD/Kerberos
2021-06-27 23:05:07	Wafficus	so many acronyms is the first thing I said when I was going through some tutorials
2021-06-27 23:05:14	Wafficus	ou, AD, etc
2021-06-27 23:05:24	Wafficus	but I'm STARTING to get it I guess :/
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2021-06-27 23:06:00	Dagmar	Yeah LDAP is kinda scary because you're most of the time constructing an LDAP query directly in the bits that talk to LDAP
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2021-06-27 23:06:42	Wafficus	dang
2021-06-27 23:06:49	Wafficus	sounds like a vulnerability waiting to happen
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2021-06-27 23:07:03	Dagmar	WEll, LDAP queries are also kinda too stupid for injection attacks
2021-06-27 23:07:23	Wafficus	speaking of which, do you have any recommended books for penetration testing or just simple hacking?
2021-06-27 23:07:24	Dagmar	That and most of the things won't _let_ you enter anything that would result in an injection attack
2021-06-27 23:07:32	Wafficus	Dagmar I tried looking, but most books are focused on Kali
2021-06-27 23:07:44	Dagmar	Largely hacking comes down to one thing.
2021-06-27 23:07:46	Wafficus	I figured I wanted to do some network based hacking learning for CTF or Team Blue
2021-06-27 23:07:53	Dagmar	Knowing more than the guy who set up the system you're looking to abuse.
2021-06-27 23:07:57	Wafficus	mostly because my new job is support for a cybersecurity firm
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2021-06-27 23:08:33	Dagmar	Maybe get familiar with things like Nessus, since that can throw a lot of canned tests for potential vulnerabilities very quickly
2021-06-27 23:09:04	fling	Wafficus: are not you from Australia?
2021-06-27 23:09:20	-->	kurahaupo_ (~kurahaupo@pa49-195-221-69.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #linux
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2021-06-27 23:10:18	Wafficus	nope why fling
2021-06-27 23:10:30	fling	I'm looking for a security engineer in australia.
2021-06-27 23:10:56	Wafficus	sorry, just changed jobs. Literally doing level 1 support for now
2021-06-27 23:11:05	Wafficus	just debating future stuff for now, better to look early than later
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2021-06-27 23:13:11	Kyv	That should present neat-o challenges of it's own.
2021-06-27 23:13:28	meisfat[m]	Hi can you see this message I’m trying to chat from element
2021-06-27 23:13:44	<--	HaMsTeRs (~mx@49.130.89.2) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-27 23:13:46	Wafficus	Kyv for sure, I'm just always thinking ahead
2021-06-27 23:13:59	--	meisfat[m] is now known as meisme
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2021-06-27 23:14:09	<--	Wafficus (~Wafficus@70.126.240.148) has left #linux
2021-06-27 23:14:09	Bashing-om	meisme: Looks golden to me :D
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2021-06-27 23:15:03	Kyv	By law they compel tech companies to design "backdoors for the public good"... systemic weaknesses, whatever
2021-06-27 23:15:09	-->	meisme (~meismemat@2001:470:69fc:105::5056) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 23:15:13	meisme	Thanks!
2021-06-27 23:15:16	<--	idego (idego@user/idego) has left #linux (thanks)
2021-06-27 23:15:31	Kyv	not very encryption-friendly pack of m80s
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2021-06-27 23:17:34	Kyv	https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryption-law-is-a-threat-to-global-privacy/
2021-06-27 23:17:58	meisme	Australia is at it again
2021-06-27 23:17:59	Kyv	always with the nanny stuff
2021-06-27 23:18:17	Sauvin	Kyv, not very friendly pack of quarter sticks of dynamite?
2021-06-27 23:19:02	Ringtailed-Fox	what the hell is wrong with ausfailia
2021-06-27 23:19:20	[[R]]	Ringtailed-Fox: everythign is upsdie down
2021-06-27 23:19:24	Ringtailed-Fox	LOL
2021-06-27 23:19:46	Kyv	Sauvin: its Australia, you need dynamite.. for the spiders
2021-06-27 23:19:59	Ringtailed-Fox	oh yeah. i forgot they're so big they have health bars down there..
2021-06-27 23:20:01	[[R]]	dynomite
2021-06-27 23:20:39	Ringtailed-Fox	well,c anada's not any better... trudeau's trying to ram through a law to limit or control netflix, google (well, youtube), microsoft, facebook and the like by telling them what they can or can't offer to canadians and limit what we can watch and punish us if we want to watch american or british shows...
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2021-06-27 23:20:48	Ringtailed-Fox	let me expand my previous gripe
2021-06-27 23:20:55	Ringtailed-Fox	what the hell is wrong with the anglosphere?
2021-06-27 23:21:10	sumthing1980	this vm image with debian starts in like 5 seconds
2021-06-27 23:21:23	Ringtailed-Fox	hell, amazon alone has a GDP about on par with all of canada (2 trillion dollars)...
2021-06-27 23:22:43	Ringtailed-Fox	le sigh
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2021-06-27 23:24:03	Sauvin	Let's not delve too deeply into what might be wrong with the Anglosphere.
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2021-06-27 23:37:42	Dagmar	sumthing1980: Imaginary disks don't need a lot of time to spin up. :)
2021-06-27 23:37:56	sumthing1980	yea
2021-06-27 23:37:59	Dagmar	Imaginary hardware also initializes much faster.
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2021-06-27 23:38:08	sumthing1980	hmm
2021-06-27 23:38:33	schillingklaus	imaginary hardware is the one used in a vm?
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2021-06-27 23:40:02	ayecee	nope, that's virtual hardware
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2021-06-27 23:42:03	autopsy	Virtual is another form of imaginary.
2021-06-27 23:42:05	ayecee	imaginary hardware is the kind you find in a marketing presentation
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2021-06-27 23:42:17	j3s	i can imagine the tagline now
2021-06-27 23:42:23	j3s	hardware: reimagined
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2021-06-27 23:43:23	ayecee	unrelated, i saw a billboard that said "experience banking undefined" and i'm still trying to figure that one out
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2021-06-27 23:44:31	autopsy	You can experience the bankink of AmeriBank totally undefined
2021-06-27 23:44:38	autopsy	Does it make sense now?
2021-06-27 23:44:56	Kyv	put your sunglasses on and try
2021-06-27 23:44:58	ayecee	no :(
2021-06-27 23:45:18	autopsy	If you have banking with definitioins you have boundaries.
2021-06-27 23:45:38	autopsy	Undefined leaves a banking experience without baoundaries.
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2021-06-27 23:45:49	ayecee	without rules, without expectations
2021-06-27 23:46:03	ayecee	without withdrawls, without cash
2021-06-27 23:46:07	autopsy	Without a overdraft protection.
2021-06-27 23:46:20	Kyv	it souds like they just want to see other people
2021-06-27 23:46:29	autopsy	So you pay 160 dollars overdraft fee for a cup of coffee.
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2021-06-27 23:46:31	ayecee	like, banking redefined, i get that
2021-06-27 23:46:41	-->	pepee (~user@user/pepee) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 23:46:44	ayecee	but banking undefined, what the hell man
2021-06-27 23:46:53	autopsy	Yeah its new age shit.
2021-06-27 23:47:04	<--	meisme (~meisme@2001:470:69fc:105::5056) has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2021-06-27 23:47:16	Kyv	align your chakras and bank with us
2021-06-27 23:47:23	-->	meisme (~hjfhhf@2001:470:69fc:105::5056) has joined #linux
2021-06-27 23:47:52	autopsy	What on Earth is a chakra?
2021-06-27 23:48:16	autopsy	Or chakras.
2021-06-27 23:48:38	jim	they're supposed to be nerves that correspond to your vertabrae
2021-06-27 23:48:40	Kyv	theres grande
2021-06-27 23:48:43	Kyv	there's venti
2021-06-27 23:48:48	Kyv	and then there's chakra
2021-06-27 23:49:09	autopsy	My vertabrolism is broke.
2021-06-27 23:49:16	rud0lf	is there a way to get timestamp of certain process by PID?
2021-06-27 23:49:20	Konichiwa	naw...this is a chakra!  http://nextews.com/images/fb/a5/fba5aff47dd10ec8.jpg
2021-06-27 23:49:24	rud0lf	timestamp the process was started
2021-06-27 23:49:38	rud0lf	i looked /proc/<PID>/ but no result :S
2021-06-27 23:49:43	autopsy	rud0lf, what process?
2021-06-27 23:50:07	rud0lf	any process run in linux
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2021-06-27 23:50:55	autopsy	All you need to do is move binary process executable to executable.real and make a shell script thast calls time executable.real >>/tmp/timestamp.txt
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2021-06-27 23:51:02	rud0lf	sometimes i run some task that's gonna take 2 hours instead of expected 3 minutes and i forget what time i run it
2021-06-27 23:51:19	rud0lf	hmmmm
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2021-06-27 23:51:25	rud0lf	no other way?
2021-06-27 23:51:31	autopsy	Like what?
2021-06-27 23:51:39	rud0lf	like after the fact
2021-06-27 23:51:46	autopsy	strace maybe
2021-06-27 23:51:50	kfrench	rud0lf: auditd
2021-06-27 23:51:55	rud0lf	i thought linux journals the process exceution time
2021-06-27 23:51:57	autopsy	strace can attach to a running process.
2021-06-27 23:52:19	autopsy	Don't listen to me on this one cause I'm clueless.
2021-06-27 23:52:21	rud0lf	ok i'm not prying it any more because it seems complex and i don't need it very much
2021-06-27 23:52:25	autopsy	Yet I still speak.
2021-06-27 23:52:34	rud0lf	autopsy: shush you
2021-06-27 23:52:40	autopsy	Unlike these other cats that don't know and won't speak.
2021-06-27 23:52:41	rud0lf	don't waste my cellular data ;)
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2021-06-27 23:53:02	Konichiwa	rud01f, ps -ef (stime), but will only be good for processes started today, otherwise you get the date, not time
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2021-06-27 23:53:14	rud0lf	thanks Konichiwa :)
2021-06-27 23:53:45	rud0lf	that's excellent
2021-06-27 23:53:53	sumthing1980	why dont anyone make a irc client for android that works like whatsapp, they are pretty much same thing just add automatic file upload
2021-06-27 23:54:03	rud0lf	any idea where does ps get it from? before i dig into source code of ps...
2021-06-27 23:54:28	akoana	rud0lf: add the lstart option, e.g:  ps -p 1 olstart
2021-06-27 23:54:33	autopsy	rud0lf, did you try /proc/$PID?
2021-06-27 23:54:44	rud0lf	autopsy: i did
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2021-06-27 23:55:09	Konichiwa	well...it should get it from /proc?
2021-06-27 23:55:24	<--	misspwn_ (~misspwn@user/misspwn) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-27 23:55:37	rud0lf	there's one (virtual file) called "stat" there which i suspect
2021-06-27 23:55:41	rud0lf	full of weird numbers
2021-06-27 23:55:47	akoana	rud0lf: another example with lstart options: ps -p 1 opid,tty,lstart,cmd
2021-06-27 23:56:15	rud0lf	akoana: this one is perfect, i owe you a coffee
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2021-06-27 23:56:26	akoana	heh
2021-06-27 23:56:46	rud0lf	akoana: hm in this case it would be init so roughly start of os?
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2021-06-27 23:56:57	akoana	I guess so, yes
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2021-06-27 23:58:56	autopsy	You can always call two init processes, you just have to have the first init exit instead exec /sbin/anotherinit
2021-06-27 23:59:08	autopsy	pivot_root prior to calling exec.
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2021-06-28 00:00:05	rud0lf	is there a book online that explains this stuff? i can look for but you could spare me some time...
2021-06-28 00:00:17	rud0lf	thing that are not just kernel
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2021-06-28 00:00:34	rud0lf	like content of /proc/ or /sys explained
2021-06-28 00:01:15	akoana	besides the kernel docs, man 5 proc  has a bit about /proc
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2021-06-28 00:01:21	rud0lf	thank you
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2021-06-28 00:02:02	akoana	but for /sys I don't know of any man page...
2021-06-28 00:02:21	autopsy	Only Linus knows about /sys
2021-06-28 00:02:39	autopsy	It's a document time to write too soon.
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2021-06-28 00:03:01	akoana	rud0lf: ah, there is man 5 sysfs
2021-06-28 00:03:01	<--	j3s (~j3s@198-74-4-4.fttp.usinternet.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-28 00:03:12	autopsy	Only wigums knows about Slackware.
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2021-06-28 00:03:40	-->	deavmi (~tbk@user/deavmi) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:03:52	schillingklaus	Poettering is on the way to squeezing it out of Linus.
2021-06-28 00:04:01	rud0lf	is proc and sys part of kernel?
2021-06-28 00:04:13	-->	enrh (~enrh@user/robinho) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:04:15	autopsy	/proc and /sys are psuedofilesystesems.
2021-06-28 00:04:21	Kyv	he doesnt look like hes got a very firm handshake
2021-06-28 00:04:25	Kyv	Has anyone here shaken his hand?
2021-06-28 00:04:41	<--	mattf (~matheus@179-189-87-110.goldnettelecom.com.br) has left #linux
2021-06-28 00:04:48	rud0lf	also, would traversing /proc every say 15 seconds for tiny "stat" file be resource hungry? i guess it's all fast mem access
2021-06-28 00:04:56	<--	enrh (~enrh@user/robinho) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-28 00:05:07	rud0lf	autopsy: i mean what maintains them?
2021-06-28 00:05:13	rud0lf	init process?
2021-06-28 00:05:23	autopsy	The kerenl.
2021-06-28 00:05:27	rud0lf	ah thanks
2021-06-28 00:05:38	autopsy	Its main memory region is where the files are kept.
2021-06-28 00:06:07	Kyv	No one shaken Poettering's hand?
2021-06-28 00:06:10	Kyv	the sheer cheek of it
2021-06-28 00:06:16	-->	enrh (~enrh@user/enrh) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:06:17	autopsy	Who is Poettering?
2021-06-28 00:06:35	autopsy	John the Poettering.
2021-06-28 00:06:46	<--	meisme (~hjfhhf@2001:470:69fc:105::5056) has quit (Quit: issued !quit command)
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2021-06-28 00:07:06	autopsy	Did Linus step down?
2021-06-28 00:07:08	schillingklaus	poettering is the maker of systemd
2021-06-28 00:07:17	autopsy	The baby maker.
2021-06-28 00:07:32	autopsy	Lets have a 100 off shoots forks of systemd.
2021-06-28 00:07:49	Kyv	Which forks?
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2021-06-28 00:08:25	<--	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has left #linux (bye)
2021-06-28 00:08:27	Kyv	it is not the 'original situation'
2021-06-28 00:09:04	<--	Mangy_Lobster (~Mangy_Lob@035-134-193-230.res.spectrum.com) has quit (Changing host)
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2021-06-28 00:12:16	Kyv	that is the story now? something serves a role which is now served in a systemd component
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2021-06-28 00:12:21	Kyv	it is now a fork of systemd
2021-06-28 00:12:24	autopsy	rud0lf, /proc is for processes, /sys is for like the board the system.
2021-06-28 00:12:58	no_gravity	Is it safe to rm -r /var/tmp/* ?
2021-06-28 00:13:01	autopsy	How dol you even fork a fork.
2021-06-28 00:13:07	autopsy	Forka lorka lork.
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2021-06-28 00:13:22	autopsy	Forkalicious.
2021-06-28 00:13:34	<--	cliluw (~cliluw@47.147.80.149) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-28 00:13:38	sumthing1980	for i in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do virsh shutdown "d$i"
2021-06-28 00:13:46	sumthing1980	how can I write this in a single line
2021-06-28 00:13:53	sumthing1980	in terminal
2021-06-28 00:14:03	sumthing1980	d1 -d8 are my vms
2021-06-28 00:14:24	Sauvin	if (!fork()) { if (!fork()) { print "This is the grandchild process.\n" } }
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2021-06-28 00:14:29	Sauvin	That's how you fork a fork.
2021-06-28 00:14:32	sumthing1980	it opens a prompt like this >
2021-06-28 00:14:37	<--	Hanii (~textual@2a00:23c5:c587:6d00:4508:678:2ade:48c3) has quit (Client Quit)
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2021-06-28 00:14:57	autopsy	#] for i in $(seq 1 9); do virsh shutdown d$i; done
2021-06-28 00:15:01	fling	eighrk
2021-06-28 00:15:26	akoana	sumthing1980: for i in d{1..8}; do virsh shutdown "$i";done
2021-06-28 00:15:33	-->	OPK (~OPK@user/opk) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:15:44	Kyv	sumthing1980: you did not finish
2021-06-28 00:15:55	autopsy	Actually you can simpligfy that and fork(fork(6))
2021-06-28 00:16:10	-->	b1101 (~b1101@ool-44c01641.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:16:16	akoana	^^ and >  means the shell waits for more or "done"
2021-06-28 00:16:17	sumthing1980	thanks
2021-06-28 00:16:18	enrh	akoana, nice!
2021-06-28 00:16:18	-->	mintphin (~mintphin@201.238.225.218) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 00:18:42	akoana	autopsy's solution is for shells not having brace expansions like {1..8} (bash has)
2021-06-28 00:18:48	sumthing1980	cool seq 1 8 displays the numbers so does echo {1..5}
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2021-06-28 00:20:09	akoana	brace expansion can do more, try  echo {0..9}{0..9}
2021-06-28 00:20:31	akoana	or  echo {0..9}{a..d}
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2021-06-28 00:20:46	sumthing1980	how can I run these in the background this doesnt work
2021-06-28 00:20:49	sumthing1980	for i in d{1..8}; do virsh start "$i" & ; done
2021-06-28 00:21:13	-->	ax5623 (~NickServ@user/ax562) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 00:21:15	akoana	for i in d{1..8}; do virsh start "$i" & done
2021-06-28 00:21:34	Kyv	done &
2021-06-28 00:21:36	sumthing1980	cool thanks
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2021-06-28 00:23:00	akoana	sumthing1980: no ";" after "&"  because "&" is also a statement separator like ";"
2021-06-28 00:23:22	sumthing1980	ok
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2021-06-28 00:23:39	fling	sumthing1980: you want them to run in parallel?
2021-06-28 00:24:10	sumthing1980	they have a delay when running the command, they run in parallel in reality anyway
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2021-06-28 00:24:22	fling	sumthing1980: echo {1..8} | xargs -n1 | parallel virsh start d{}
2021-06-28 00:24:22	sumthing1980	this does it faster
2021-06-28 00:24:29	jim	and to see the i-s in akoana's thing: for i in d{1..8}; do echo $i; done
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2021-06-28 00:24:55	fling	echo d{1..8} | xargs -n1 | parallel virsh start
2021-06-28 00:25:13	autopsy	what is parallel?
2021-06-28 00:25:23	sumthing1980	I dont have parallel
2021-06-28 00:25:32	<--	Sleepy63 (~Sleepy63@user/sleepy63) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-28 00:25:44	fling	gnu parallel
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2021-06-28 00:25:49	akoana	fling no need for parallel and xargs (extra forks) if you got bash
2021-06-28 00:25:51	jim	sumthing1980, how can you find out how to install parallel?
2021-06-28 00:26:02	 *	fling runs away
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2021-06-28 00:27:34	sumthing1980	how? I just try apt install parallel
2021-06-28 00:27:42	sumthing1980	if it doesnt work, I ask here
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2021-06-28 00:27:49	sumthing1980	if no answer I google :)
2021-06-28 00:28:09	Kyv	echo run{,-away,-toward,-for-prez,-like-tubby}
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2021-06-28 00:29:58	schillingklaus	i avoid parallel execution
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2021-06-28 00:30:15	autopsy	The only thing parallel in my world is the train tracks.
2021-06-28 00:30:42	akoana	sumthing1980: you don't really need parallel for starting/stopping virsh, just backgrounding each virsh command in a for loop will pretty much do the same...
2021-06-28 00:31:01	fling	sumthing1980: no need for xargs
2021-06-28 00:31:17	fling	parallel virsh start ::: d{1..8}
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2021-06-28 00:31:55	fling	parallel --lb virsh start ::: d{1..8} <- if you want to see the output before the processes exit
2021-06-28 00:32:17	schillingklaus	i still do not understand the virsh part
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2021-06-28 00:32:31	fling	schillingklaus: I never tried it myself, only using lxd
2021-06-28 00:32:37	autopsy	virsh is a virtual machine namamaneger application
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2021-06-28 00:33:09	jim	schillingklaus, virsh is a special shell where you can configure, start or stop virtual machines
2021-06-28 00:33:32	schillingklaus	so no vm means no need for virsh, right?
2021-06-28 00:33:59	<--	armanwu (~Arman_Wu@fedora/armanwu) has left #linux
2021-06-28 00:34:07	jim	if you mean you can put this string joining thing to different uses, you're rith
2021-06-28 00:34:12	jim	right
2021-06-28 00:34:29	autopsy	How soon is a disk likely to fail if the BIOS and Linux both tell me to replace it soon?
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2021-06-28 00:34:53	Kyv	a virtual machine mememanager is essential
2021-06-28 00:35:08	autopsy	Hey.
2021-06-28 00:35:10	jim	dunno. you better take the drive out of service right away
2021-06-28 00:35:13	autopsy	I said that.
2021-06-28 00:35:18	Sauvin	echo a{1,2,3}
2021-06-28 00:35:41	autopsy	Yeah I dd'd a image of it sdb.img to /tmp and now what?
2021-06-28 00:35:49	Sauvin	autopsy, how is BIOS telling you it's likely to fail?
2021-06-28 00:35:50	<--	no_gravity (~no_gravit@user/no-gravity/x-5639427) has left #linux
2021-06-28 00:36:01	autopsy	Sauvin, POST rather.
2021-06-28 00:36:09	Sauvin	What's the message?
2021-06-28 00:36:14	jim	'autopsy, get a new drive
2021-06-28 00:36:41	autopsy	It just says some garbage characrters and says drive will fail replace it soon please press F1 for setup F2 to continue
2021-06-28 00:36:44	Sauvin	Oh, and you ARE aware that /tmp goes away between boots, right?
2021-06-28 00:36:46	fling	autopsy: /tmp gets deleted on reboot, move it somewhere else
2021-06-28 00:36:54	autopsy	Yeah.
2021-06-28 00:36:57	akoana	autopsy: /tmp isn't a good place for backups, on some distros it's empty after boot
2021-06-28 00:37:03	akoana	lol
2021-06-28 00:37:11	autopsy	Yeah I mean I put it in /pub
2021-06-28 00:37:20	Sauvin	What's /pub mounted to?
2021-06-28 00:37:25	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 00:37:37	autopsy	To the NFS server.
2021-06-28 00:38:08	fling	tmpfs on /pub type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime)
2021-06-28 00:38:10	Sauvin	And what drive are you booting from?
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2021-06-28 00:38:17	Sauvin	!@#$@%$#
2021-06-28 00:38:23	schillingklaus	not all shells handle echo a{1,2,3} in the Sauviniac manner
2021-06-28 00:38:30	Sauvin	Bash does.
2021-06-28 00:38:54	autopsy	I've got sda sdc sdd all in a VG
2021-06-28 00:39:15	-->	Nik- (~textual@p5b3f9738.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:39:20	autopsy	There's 5 drives hooked up the 1 is failing and it s part of the main VG
2021-06-28 00:39:29	akoana	brace expansion can even count down, echo {c..a}{3..1} => c3 c2 c1 b3 b2 b1 a3 a2 a1
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2021-06-28 00:39:44	autopsy	So I need to write it to another good disk and replace it hot swap it if I have to its not shut down.
2021-06-28 00:40:12	fling	akoana: so as seq but {} also does negatives
2021-06-28 00:40:17	fling	eg {1..-1}
2021-06-28 00:40:22	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 00:40:46	akoana	yeah, but we save a fork because {..} is built in :)
2021-06-28 00:41:08	autopsy	Its not a fork.
2021-06-28 00:41:13	autopsy	Its a subprocess.
2021-06-28 00:41:20	fling	{} rocks!
2021-06-28 00:41:35	autopsy	Hey watch your language!
2021-06-28 00:41:45	autopsy	Theres grandmas watching... '
2021-06-28 00:41:54	 *	fling ducks
2021-06-28 00:41:58	sumthing1980	aanyway thanks for the help ppl
2021-06-28 00:42:04	sumthing1980	take care bye
2021-06-28 00:42:08	-->	sysRPL (~sysRPL@ec2-3-17-180-170.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:42:09	autopsy	Bye now.
2021-06-28 00:42:09	fling	cya
2021-06-28 00:42:11	sysRPL	hello
2021-06-28 00:42:12	sumthing1980	ciao
2021-06-28 00:42:15	autopsy	Hi.
2021-06-28 00:42:27	<--	sumthing1980 (~sumthing1@94.54.64.154) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 00:42:56	akoana	autopsy: subshell
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2021-06-28 00:43:57	sysRPL	here is another +1 for linux -> i took apart my pc to sell it and put it's main ssd into a totally different sff pc going from amd to intel plus everything else hardwarewise is different ... and linux boot right up and runs just fine
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2021-06-28 00:44:19	Dagmar	sysRPL: Yes the "everything is modules" approach works really well for moving a drive between systems
2021-06-28 00:44:20	sysRPL	in windows that would definitely result in blue screens
2021-06-28 00:44:33	sysRPL	Dagmar: oh, okay
2021-06-28 00:44:54	Dagmar	Not as bad as it used to be, but at least we have the option for setting up a bootstrap that can do both legacy and UEFI boots, and Windows can *not*
2021-06-28 00:45:09	<--	debsan (~debsan@2800:810:471:2ee::1001) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 00:45:21	Dagmar	Their guidance on that is still "backup the system, then install via UEFI and then restore the backup"?
2021-06-28 00:45:25	sysRPL	i'm on this "new" linu pc right now actually
2021-06-28 00:45:31	<--	CodeSpelunker (~CodeSpelu@user/codespelunker) has quit (Quit: CodeSpelunker)
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2021-06-28 00:45:53	sysRPL	i sold my old pc in parts for ~$600
2021-06-28 00:46:02	Dagmar	sysRPL: I'm like a permanent nomad at work.  The office "does" WIndows, but I'm a Unix admin and I have a pair of external USB 3.0 SSDs that I use on whatever's available at the time
2021-06-28 00:46:02	sysRPL	and switched over to a $30 computer
2021-06-28 00:46:21	Dagmar	Sometimes there's an Intel NUC on my desk, sometimes a dell sff machine, sometimes I'm on my laptop
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2021-06-28 00:46:51	Dagmar	Either or both of those SSDs can boot via legacy or UEFI and are using full disk encryption
2021-06-28 00:46:56	sysRPL	i booted this pc from external usb 3.0 with the ssd and one of thos usb3 to sata cables
2021-06-28 00:47:06	Dagmar	That's very nice
2021-06-28 00:47:15	sysRPL	i thnik i will stay on this $30 computer
2021-06-28 00:47:32	autopsy	sysRPL, did you need to modify ithe initramfs at all?
2021-06-28 00:47:37	sysRPL	nope
2021-06-28 00:47:40	Dagmar	I was running off a 32Gb SanDisk thumbdrive for awhile and although it's read/write speeds are some of the best, yum updates were still excruciating
2021-06-28 00:47:41	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-28 00:48:11	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.3.90) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-28 00:48:32	Dagmar	I got a no-name USB 3.0 128Gb SSD (which is somewhat obviously an nVME in a shell by the size/shape) as a test
2021-06-28 00:48:36	sysRPL	the single core performacne of this $30 pc is better than the system i sold
2021-06-28 00:48:43	-->	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:48:54	Dagmar	Then I had no problems shelling out for a 500Gb Sammie T5
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2021-06-28 00:49:20	sysRPL	i don't think i need more than8gb of ram either
2021-06-28 00:49:23	Dagmar	SSDs make a huge difference when the CPU is a little dated
2021-06-28 00:49:46	sysRPL	SSDs make a huge difference if you used to using a HDD. period
2021-06-28 00:50:03	Dagmar	Well, that sort of depends.
2021-06-28 00:50:03	autopsy	Thats what I told my mom.
2021-06-28 00:50:11	<--	quarkyalice (~quarkyali@user/quarkyalice) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-28 00:50:24	Dagmar	If you have 32-64Gb of RAM, almost everything's in filesystem cache after awhile and only the bootups are slow
2021-06-28 00:50:28	autopsy	I siad, wait until you install the operating system to the SSD then you'll really be able to see the difference.
2021-06-28 00:50:36	<--	Bashing-om (~sysop@ubuntu/member/bashing-om) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-28 00:50:59	Dagmar	That's the only thing that makes using a thumbdrive install tolerable.  RAM for filesystem cache
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2021-06-28 00:51:40	sysRPL	so, another topic, ms doubled their minimum hardware requirements with win11
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2021-06-28 00:52:58	Dagmar	Well, those are for the beta builds
2021-06-28 00:53:05	Dagmar	For obvious reasons they don't want people testing it on a potato
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2021-06-28 00:53:41	sysRPL	i think they stick with it ... dual core 64 bits, 4gb ram, 32gb free space for the os
2021-06-28 00:53:47	<--	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 00:53:50	<--	Kevlar_Noir (~alex@2a01:e0a:5d7:e1e0::b018:6779) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-28 00:53:54	Dagmar	Don't expect the reqs on the leaked beta to still be the case for release
2021-06-28 00:54:24	Dagmar	No one should really be using single-core 32-bit CPUs for anything like a desktop nowadays
2021-06-28 00:54:34	sysRPL	i disagree
2021-06-28 00:54:47	Dagmar	I might use something like that as an X thin client, but that's about it
2021-06-28 00:54:47	schillingklaus	what is wrong with single-core 32bit for a desktop?
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2021-06-28 00:54:51	sysRPL	i would still run xp if i were doing civil cad work
2021-06-28 00:55:07	Dagmar	schillingklaus: I have things to do that don't involve having my life nibbled away by a slow system
2021-06-28 00:55:39	<--	korg815 (~korg815@user/korg815) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-06-28 00:55:46	Dagmar	You pretty much have to hit Goodwill to even find 32-bit machines anymore
2021-06-28 00:56:21	liquidsnake	I have an single core with 1gb ram that has antiX linux on it and it runs like a champ
2021-06-28 00:56:28	autopsy	I've got like 3 of them.
2021-06-28 00:56:29	sysRPL	or be like me and don't throw out every old computer you've used
2021-06-28 00:56:36	-->	cyndaquil (~job@user/job) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 00:56:37	autopsy	4 64 bit giaga bit mahcines.
2021-06-28 00:56:49	autopsy	Doin Megaherps
2021-06-28 00:56:54	liquidsnake	It was a gift from my brother. It was his laptop in the military. It had xp on it
2021-06-28 00:57:03	<--	Inline (~Inline@2a02:908:1252:7a80:c035:deeb:51be:5431) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 00:57:13	sysRPL	my shuttle xpc with a pentium 4 runs linux great
2021-06-28 00:57:31	autopsy	I've got a NASA spaceship runnin BSD.
2021-06-28 00:57:33	sysRPL	it even has hyperthreading
2021-06-28 00:57:37	liquidsnake	Wireless didn't even work and none of the USB ports weren't recognized by the system
2021-06-28 00:57:55	liquidsnake	But everything works now with antiX on it
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2021-06-28 00:58:20	autopsy	I've been running Fedora exclusivley on my PC since 1999
2021-06-28 00:58:21	liquidsnake	Had to use a Plop disc to install antiX via USB
2021-06-28 00:58:38	<--	penguino (~mrpenguin@user/mrpenguin) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 00:58:43	sysRPL	some old windows 2000 era software i have is still productive
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2021-06-28 00:58:53	sysRPL	autocad 200 runs circles around the latest autocad
2021-06-28 00:58:58	sysRPL	autocad 2000
2021-06-28 01:00:26	autopsy	This is a cat and mouse game.
2021-06-28 01:00:54	<--	______GOD______ (~GOD@user/god/x-9778998) has quit (Quit: Turning off a portion of this simulation.)
2021-06-28 01:01:17	sysRPL	new hardware is more powerful, and ms creates new useless features and services to waste the improvements in hardware
2021-06-28 01:01:27	sysRPL	?
2021-06-28 01:02:16	schillingklaus	yeah, all M$ does is create useless and obnoxious features staing in the way of usable ones
2021-06-28 01:02:42	autopsy	You're preACHING TO THE CHOIR
2021-06-28 01:02:48	autopsy	Gods caps lock.
2021-06-28 01:02:49	schillingklaus	that's similar to systemd
2021-06-28 01:02:51	<--	th3jam3sd3an (~james@75.170.105.8) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 01:03:09	sysRPL	for example indexing service and then their `Indexing Service Query Language`
2021-06-28 01:03:14	autopsy	systemd is a piece of software?
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2021-06-28 01:03:25	liquidsnake	I like restoring old computers. I literally used to "Frankenstein" computers for people to use because they couldn't afford to buy one. Also is some developing countries modern hardware is hard to come by so they use what they have at their disposal
2021-06-28 01:03:28	autopsy	I thought it was a binary.
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2021-06-28 01:04:04	Sauvin	Systemd is indeed a "piece", but not necessarily of "software".
2021-06-28 01:04:05	sysRPL	schillingklaus: also, ms never gets rid of all their old usless shit lest they lose backwards compatibility
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2021-06-28 01:04:28	liquidsnake	Lots of good 32 bit distros out there that breathe new life into old computers
2021-06-28 01:04:37	autopsy	Tell me more Sauvin.
2021-06-28 01:04:52	Sauvin	It's a piece of "stuff".
2021-06-28 01:05:16	autopsy	Strange I couldn't find a 32 bit distribution the other day.
2021-06-28 01:05:16	schillingklaus	MirBSD, for example, never tried to make the step to 64bit
2021-06-28 01:05:44	ananke	you can claim nostalgia or hobby, that's fine. just don't pretend that 32 bit is somehow 'good' in this day and age
2021-06-28 01:05:49	matsurago	Unlike Windows features, use of systemd is completely optional
2021-06-28 01:06:12	liquidsnake	antiX has 32 bit. I think devuan does too. And slitaz
2021-06-28 01:06:28	craigevil	rpios has 32bit
2021-06-28 01:06:31	liquidsnake	Tiny core too
2021-06-28 01:06:33	schillingklaus	puppy maybe?
2021-06-28 01:06:41	liquidsnake	Yes puppy does
2021-06-28 01:07:15	autopsy	Ok but WHY are we talking about 32 bit systems anymore?
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2021-06-28 01:07:21	ananke	craigevil: rpios doesn't count
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2021-06-28 01:07:37	liquidsnake	Idk lol
2021-06-28 01:08:40	Sauvin	liquidsnake, please use "I don't know" instead of "Idk".
2021-06-28 01:08:41	autopsy	systemd won't run on 32 bits.
2021-06-28 01:08:59	autopsy	It needs a fat pipe.
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2021-06-28 01:09:13	autopsy	Why did we make SATA drives only after PATA?
2021-06-28 01:09:16	craigevil	System: Host: raspberrypi Kernel: 5.10.44-v8+ aarch64 bits: 64 Desktop: MATE 1.24.1 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS 11 (bullseye)
2021-06-28 01:09:57	craigevil	the default rpios is arm32, the arm64 is still "beta"
2021-06-28 01:09:58	liquidsnake	Oh yeah my mistake I forgot
2021-06-28 01:10:29	Dagmar	You can build Raspbian for arm64.  There's just no point
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2021-06-28 01:11:15	autopsy	Why is there no point?
2021-06-28 01:11:27	Dagmar	That ther'es no point
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2021-06-28 01:12:04	Dagmar	It doesn't expose additional instructions, and even the "biggest" Pis don't have massive enough amounts of RAM to need a different addressing method
2021-06-28 01:12:19	Dagmar	i.e., "it ain't going to go moar fasterer"
2021-06-28 01:12:33	 *	autopsy jerks his head
2021-06-28 01:12:41	autopsy	ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM
2021-06-28 01:13:10	schillingklaus	fast faster dagmar
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2021-06-28 01:13:26	craigevil	sudo apt install ram
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2021-06-28 01:13:47	Dagmar	You may note that there's also no advisories because of malfunctioning prescient multi-threaded cache functions
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2021-06-28 01:14:45	craigevil	systemd is getting there
2021-06-28 01:15:13	Dagmar	The ARM that the Pis use has SOC functions for all the truly fancy things you'd normally need on an x86-64 machine
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2021-06-28 01:16:11	Dagmar	So... no need to try for a 64-bit build of the h264 decoder becasue there's "just hardware specifically for that"
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2021-06-28 01:17:12	Dagmar	If you're needing to transcode lots of video, thats' a thing you just shoudln't be doing on a Pi in the first place
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2021-06-28 01:30:04	rindolf	Dagmar: heh, a Pi
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2021-06-28 01:31:06	 *	craigevil is on a pi400, nifty little device
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2021-06-28 01:34:37	schillingklaus	rud0lf vs rindolf ... the ultimate showdown
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2021-06-28 01:36:43	rindolf	schillingklaus: https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer
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2021-06-28 01:37:25	Ibanez	hi! :P
2021-06-28 01:38:17	rindolf	schillingklaus: and s/ultimate/pen$&/ - http://www.earthstar.co.uk/deep1.htm
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2021-06-28 01:38:33	rindolf	Ibanez: hi
2021-06-28 01:38:40	rud0lf	:)
2021-06-28 01:38:51	rud0lf	rindolf: hello name neighbor
2021-06-28 01:38:56	rud0lf	shalom
2021-06-28 01:39:23	rud0lf	Ibanez: :)
2021-06-28 01:39:29	rud0lf	Ibanez: from IRCnet?
2021-06-28 01:39:36	Ibanez	tak korwa ;]
2021-06-28 01:39:38	Ibanez	:P
2021-06-28 01:39:40	rud0lf	haha
2021-06-28 01:39:56	Ibanez	co tu robisz do cholery?
2021-06-28 01:39:57	Ibanez	:/
2021-06-28 01:39:59	rud0lf	Ibanez: get a cloak you noob
2021-06-28 01:40:47	rindolf	rud0lf: uvrakhah!
2021-06-28 01:40:54	rud0lf	rindolf: bless you
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2021-06-28 01:41:27	rindolf	rud0lf: thx
2021-06-28 01:41:40	rud0lf	(i think you sneezed there)
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2021-06-28 01:42:03	budlight	hello
2021-06-28 01:42:10	rindolf	rud0lf: no: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94
2021-06-28 01:42:37	rindolf	budlight: hi
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2021-06-28 01:43:06	budlight	hey
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2021-06-28 01:43:18	autopsy	Hi.
2021-06-28 01:43:30	autopsy	Hi rindolf.
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2021-06-28 01:43:33	rud0lf	should it be "shalom alehem"?
2021-06-28 01:43:36	autopsy	Hi Leseratte
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2021-06-28 01:46:09	rindolf	rud0lf: "shalom alekhem"
2021-06-28 01:46:29	autopsy	Hi tom1984
2021-06-28 01:46:37	autopsy	Hi Smokie
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2021-06-28 01:48:04	Smokie	autopsy, auto response or jus chatty?
2021-06-28 01:48:04	budlight	not too much going on tonight
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2021-06-28 01:56:28	Samizdat	самиздат
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2021-06-28 01:58:44	rud0lf	rindolf: "peace be with us?"
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2021-06-28 02:00:57	rindolf	rud0lf: shalom is much more than 'peace': https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/your_name.xhtml
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2021-06-28 02:01:34	rud0lf	rindolf: so in modern common language, "good vibes"?
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2021-06-28 02:04:59	rindolf	rud0lf: maybe
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2021-06-28 02:17:17	Sauvin	Peace out, man!
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2021-06-28 02:18:15	[[R]]	🎶 peace out, atown down
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2021-06-28 02:26:12	rud0lf	mmmf mmffffff mmmmff .. *gasp* that's my face not yours!
2021-06-28 02:26:57	autopsy	Who's face?
2021-06-28 02:27:01	autopsy	Two face.
2021-06-28 02:27:02	Kyv	our face!
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2021-06-28 03:20:23	fling	Which debian-like distros have lxd packaged?
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2021-06-28 03:21:20	evidlo	ubuntu
2021-06-28 03:21:36	fling	any other distro?
2021-06-28 03:21:59	evidlo	I don't know.  Search their online package indexes and check
2021-06-28 03:22:16	firepup	lubuntu?
2021-06-28 03:22:20	rg	ubuntu forks can be included in ubuntu.
2021-06-28 03:22:24	<--	Feuermagier (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 03:22:29	firepup	ah i see then.
2021-06-28 03:22:29	fling	yeah kubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu
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2021-06-28 03:22:57	fling	all of them probably doing this through snap which is kindof cheating depending on who you ask
2021-06-28 03:23:29	jim	well there's no -debian- package called lxd, at least not in stabler
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2021-06-28 03:45:28	varaindemian	I have multiple screens connected. is there a way I can open a window and move it to a certain location (on a screen) via terminal?
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2021-06-28 03:48:17	Kyv	varaindemian: with xdotool
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2021-06-28 03:50:53	astronaut	Kyv, I love xdotool. You become a automation god with that tool.
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2021-06-28 03:51:25	varaindemian	Kyv niice
2021-06-28 03:51:38	varaindemian	Kyv can I also close windows at a specific location?
2021-06-28 03:51:55	alex3	hi mates. in the lynx browser documentation there is section 'Search Engines' and the list of search engines. But is there a shortcut to search with desired engine from lynx ?
2021-06-28 03:52:33	Kyv	varaindemian: yes
2021-06-28 03:52:46	varaindemian	Kyv wow, how?
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2021-06-28 03:54:16	Kyv	it depends on how you want to fashion it to do so
2021-06-28 03:54:29	Kyv	which location, a whole screen? the area of the mouse?
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2021-06-28 03:54:48	varaindemian	a whole screen
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2021-06-28 03:56:24	Kyv	varaindemian: look through the man page, its very versatile.
2021-06-28 03:56:55	astronaut	varaindemian, issue xkill command and ask xdotool to move you mouse to that specific location, simulate a mouse click to kill that window.
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2021-06-28 03:57:33	Kyv	there is a flag specifically for screen
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2021-06-28 03:59:24	varaindemian	Kyv how can I see the names of all the screens?
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2021-06-28 04:04:28	Kyv	you can just echo $DISPLAY
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2021-06-28 04:05:27	varaindemian	Kyv I tried `chromium-browser --app=https://apple.com --name=myprecious` and then `xdotool search --name myprecious windowmove 1920 1080`
2021-06-28 04:05:31	varaindemian	no effects :(
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2021-06-28 04:06:37	Kyv	How about xrandr --query?
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2021-06-28 04:08:06	Kyv	For a lot of the identifiers, xwininfo will make a good reference.
2021-06-28 04:08:11	varaindemian	Kyv  have multiple physical displays/monitors but they are using the same Xserver
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2021-06-28 04:08:57	varaindemian	what would be the syntax if  I want to open a new window and then get its name
2021-06-28 04:09:06	varaindemian	in a single command
2021-06-28 04:10:21	Kyv	I gathered as much, that command alone doesnt parse the output but the default display name format is predictable
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2021-06-28 04:11:22	Kyv	varaindemian: use xwininfo for that information
2021-06-28 04:11:53	backleet	Will erasing VM allocated space in disk while trying to install new os in VM affect host folder?
2021-06-28 04:11:56	backleet	host files*
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2021-06-28 04:15:04	varaindemian	Kyv and if I want to simulate mouse movement?
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2021-06-28 04:18:16	Kyv	varaindemian: should I just come and move the mouse?
2021-06-28 04:18:22	Kyv	"mousemove"
2021-06-28 04:18:46	Kyv	open the man page and /mousemove
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2021-06-28 04:19:43	Kyv	alternatively you can move it relative to a root position
2021-06-28 04:19:55	rud0lf	do you know any real-time vocoder for linux?
2021-06-28 04:20:02	rud0lf	voice changer for microphone
2021-06-28 04:20:24	rud0lf	it surprisingly difficult to google
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2021-06-28 04:23:34	Kyv	varaindemian: here is a simple example usecase https://superuser.com/questions/817141/xdotool-click-and-hold-and-move-the-mouse
2021-06-28 04:24:42	varaindemian	Kyv thank you!
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2021-06-28 04:26:06	varaindemian	Kyv fianlly managed to accomplish my current goal. MY only limitation right now is that `xdotool windowkill `xdotool search --name myprecious`` -> once I use this and then reopen the app with `
2021-06-28 04:26:07	varaindemian	 chromium-browser --name=myprecious --app=https://example.com` I get two windows (one with my link and the other one from chrome with restore pagess)
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2021-06-28 04:27:07	varaindemian	Kyv how can I open only a single page (the one with my link) and get rid of that "restore pages" window
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2021-06-28 04:27:49	Kyv	hm
2021-06-28 04:28:05	Kyv	restoring pages presumably because it has been killed unexpectedly yeah?
2021-06-28 04:28:24	Kyv	or is that preference youve set
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2021-06-28 04:35:20	varaindemian	Kyv killed unexpectedly
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2021-06-28 04:36:23	varaindemian	Kyv `Gdk-Message: 11:35:58.493: myprecious: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :1.`
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2021-06-28 04:36:38	varaindemian	after closing it
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2021-06-28 04:37:19	varaindemian	Kyv I think I need somethng more high level
2021-06-28 04:37:44	Kyv	How does it behave after you use the first command, and then open Chromium in terminal without xdotool?
2021-06-28 04:37:54	Kyv	With the same url
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2021-06-28 04:38:34	varaindemian	Kyv normally
2021-06-28 04:39:07	varaindemian	(myprecious:29620): Gtk-WARNING **: 11:38:41.485: Theme parsing error: gtk.css:4080:23: 'font-feature-settings' is not a valid property name [29620:29738:0628/113842.338400:ERROR:udev_watcher.cc(97)] Failed to begin udev enumeration.
2021-06-28 04:39:51	varaindemian	maybe what I need is a fostclose
2021-06-28 04:40:31	varaindemian	first I need to find the app with `xdotool search --name=myprecious` and the some kind of soft close
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2021-06-28 04:41:29	Kyv	windowclose
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2021-06-28 04:42:06	Kyv	I dont think that will ultimately be the fix but it is cleaner anyway.
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2021-06-28 04:42:56	varaindemian	xdotool windowclose -> unkown command
2021-06-28 04:43:05	varaindemian	`xdotool windowclose `xdotool search --name myprecious``
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2021-06-28 04:43:27	varaindemian	`xdotool windowclose `xdotool search --name myprecious`
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2021-06-28 04:45:44	curdlesnoot	why are there outer backticks? that's suspicious.
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2021-06-28 04:46:44	curdlesnoot	anyway, you might find wmctrl easier to use. actions are inferred by options/switches and can be combined. the other thing is that --name doesn't mean anything to chrome, as far as I know.
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2021-06-28 04:47:11	varaindemian	curdlesnoot windowclose `xdotool search --name myprecious`
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2021-06-28 04:47:25	varaindemian	and xdotool at the beginning
2021-06-28 04:47:30	curdlesnoot	ok, I see.
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2021-06-28 04:48:00	varaindemian	curdlesnoot I can use `wmctrl -c`
2021-06-28 04:48:17	varaindemian	but how do I give it the name parameter set with xdotool
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2021-06-28 04:53:27	curdlesnoot	I was just fiddling around with your xdotool command template. one problem with the xdotool windowclose `xdotool search ...` approach is that windowclose doesn't accept more than one window identifier. also, you're making the assumption that xdotool search prints something, which it might not (if there's no match).
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2021-06-28 04:55:02	ice9	i'm using nvidia's prop driver and i'm getting 25 FPS but when I enable vulkan, i get 7 FPS, any idea?
2021-06-28 04:55:24	varaindemian	curdlesnoot also tried this: chromium-browser --app=https://facebook.com && sleep 2 && wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "Test1"
2021-06-28 04:55:32	varaindemian	but without success
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2021-06-28 04:57:33	varaindemian	curdlesnoot anyway I changed the double & and it works now!
2021-06-28 04:57:46	varaindemian	thank you friends! :)
2021-06-28 04:57:58	varaindemian	can I send karma here? :D
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2021-06-28 05:07:01	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: sorry, I had to go away from keyboard. note, also, that wmctrl -l can be used to peruse the window list, including titles. as for chrome's session restore prompt that follows improper termination, I don't think there's any way to disable that without making invasive changes.
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2021-06-28 05:09:44	curdlesnoot	it's riduculous, but it looks as though you'd have to mangle the JSON stored by ~/.config/chromium/Default/Preferences to trick it into thinking that it had exited cleanly prior to restarting. none of the seemingly promising command-line options seem to help.
2021-06-28 05:10:08	curdlesnoot	try not to crash or unceremoniously kill chrome, I suppose.
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2021-06-28 05:11:00	curdlesnoot	starting in --icognito mode is one workaround.
2021-06-28 05:13:17	Kyv	24 hours later
2021-06-28 05:13:19	Kyv	https://z3bra.org/glazier/showcase.webm
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2021-06-28 05:14:30	Kyv	found this one too: https://github.com/wmutils/core
2021-06-28 05:14:31	loganlee	hello how do i recursively set chmod to 755 only for directories?
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2021-06-28 05:16:35	curdlesnoot	loganlee: find . -type d -exec chmod 755 {} +
2021-06-28 05:17:01	loganlee	what are {} and + for?
2021-06-28 05:17:01	curdlesnoot	Kyv: looks interesting
2021-06-28 05:17:22	curdlesnoot	loganlee: are you faimiliar with the {} \; form?
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2021-06-28 05:17:54	loganlee	curdlesnoot: i think {} is from find but not sure of \ or +
2021-06-28 05:18:03	loganlee	i meant \;
2021-06-28 05:19:03	curdlesnoot	well the backslash is just to prevent your shell from interpreting a semicolon. the two forms are "-exec command {} ;" and "-exec command {} +". the difference is that the latter feeds "command" with as many arguments as it can in one pass, which is a lot more efficient for something like chmod.
2021-06-28 05:20:06	curdlesnoot	keeping in mind that there is a cost to forking and executing "command" that could otherwise add up.
2021-06-28 05:20:29	loganlee	many arguments as it can in one pass?
2021-06-28 05:20:48	curdlesnoot	there's no hard answer, but you can be assured that it will never exceed the limitations imposed by ARG_MAX.
2021-06-28 05:21:13	curdlesnoot	after all, the exact answer would depend on the length of the arguments in question, the condition of your environment and several other things.
2021-06-28 05:21:34	curdlesnoot	don't worry, it's high in practice.
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2021-06-28 05:25:33	Samian	 I need to create a bootable hard drive formatter to format my laptop before I return it to my old employer
2021-06-28 05:25:39	geirha	execve(2) has three arguments; the path to the execuatable to execute, the argv array, and the envp array (containing all environment variables). If the length of those three combined exceeds the ARG_MAX value, you get the "Argument list too long" error
2021-06-28 05:25:42	Samian	anyone know of one? One that's easy to install on a flash drive and create a bootable flash drive?
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2021-06-28 05:26:46	akik	Samian: there are many choices (live session booting off the usb stick)
2021-06-28 05:27:11	akik	Samian: so for example ubuntu iso works
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2021-06-28 05:29:37	akik	Samian: then if it's a hard disk, you can use dd to write it over or if ssd, hdparm does ata secure erase
2021-06-28 05:30:22	Samian	maybe there's a command that tells ubuntu to reboot, clean everything, and make a fresh factory-reset ubuntu?
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2021-06-28 05:31:17	zamnedix	Samian: some machines have a "disk secure erase" option in the bios, but you are trusting the bios when you do that
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2021-06-28 05:33:12	hassoon	hi
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2021-06-28 05:34:46	hassoon	what's kde's network-manager tray app called ? i installed i3wm and i want to use it as my network management tray app
2021-06-28 05:37:18	cmdrkotori	i think that's part of plasma
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2021-06-28 05:40:03	HyP3r	A classic question for rsync. I want to copy from source to destination and my have interrupts. With what command line switch can I resume the copy?
2021-06-28 05:40:16	HyP3r	I'm struggling with "--resume" vs. "--update"
2021-06-28 05:41:42	DrEeevil	rsync resumes by default
2021-06-28 05:41:48	HyP3r	Ohhhkay
2021-06-28 05:42:18	DrEeevil	most of the time you don't need to do anything, running it repeatedly /should/ converge to a stable state where nothing changes in the target anymore
2021-06-28 05:42:36	HyP3r	Ok
2021-06-28 05:42:49	HyP3r	Actually I run it with "rsync --update --verbose --archive --progress /share/CACHEDEV1_DATA /share/external/DEV3301_1/CACHEDEV1_DATA"
2021-06-28 05:43:06	HyP3r	I don't want to retransfer already transferred files
2021-06-28 05:43:17	Kyv	rsync doesnt do that by default
2021-06-28 05:43:50	geirha	I'd lose the --update
2021-06-28 05:44:15	HyP3r	Ok
2021-06-28 05:44:35	Kyv	it transfers the difference, hence why it behaves as DrEeevil explained.
2021-06-28 05:45:39	geirha	by default, it overwrites existing files only if the destination file is older, or have different filesize
2021-06-28 05:46:11	b0b	HyP3r: also look into --partial
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2021-06-28 05:49:29	b0b	HyP3r: also i believe you're missing the trailing slash on the source
2021-06-28 05:49:41	Kyv	yes
2021-06-28 05:50:18	Kyv	that is a good way to have you re-writing files all over again
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2021-06-28 05:53:01	loganlee	hey guys after i create a new service in /etc/systemd/system/myservice.service what do i need to do next?
2021-06-28 05:53:45	Kyv	start it or enable it with systemctl
2021-06-28 05:53:50	loganlee	i got it. need to systemctl daemon-reload
2021-06-28 05:53:56	loganlee	that gotta start it
2021-06-28 05:54:59	rindolf	HyP3r: there is --inplace too
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2021-06-28 06:02:01	locsmif	How does cron know that when I restore a snapshot, it needs to run daily cron jobs immediately? They are scheduled for 6 in the morning, how does it know it needs to "catch up"?
2021-06-28 06:02:56	trusch	locsmif: perhaps it saves the last execution timestamp and then on startup checks the current time against this
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2021-06-28 06:03:12	trusch	if the diff is too big, it schedules a run immediatly
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2021-06-28 06:04:44	ice9	why it's trying to hibernate?? "Lockdown: systemd-logind: hibernation is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7"
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2021-06-28 06:05:07	curdlesnoot	locsmif: cron is ambiguous. it's sensible to mention the implementation that you are using.
2021-06-28 06:05:18	SkunkyLaptop	locsmif: that really depends on your cron daemon.  some of them are smart enough to notice they've skipped a job, others don't look.
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2021-06-28 06:05:27	locsmif	curdlesnoot: ubuntu server
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2021-06-28 06:06:12	locsmif	I'm not aware that Ubuntu's deviates greatly if at all from Debian, let alone from the "norm", but ok
2021-06-28 06:06:33	locsmif	Is there an implementation specific catch-up mechanism at work then?
2021-06-28 06:06:34	curdlesnoot	locsmif: dpkg -S "$(type -P crond)" might say
2021-06-28 06:07:06	curdlesnoot	yes, it's implementation-specific, by definition.
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2021-06-28 06:07:53	locsmif	curdlesnoot: exactly
2021-06-28 06:08:25	locsmif	your command fails, but it's "cron", and apt show cron is fine
2021-06-28 06:08:52	locsmif	In any case, DD's renaming the package to include the distro name doesn't really say much about upstream deviation
2021-06-28 06:09:00	locsmif	Quantifiably, that is
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2021-06-28 06:09:22	curdlesnoot	it's a step forwards from not qualifying the implementation.
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2021-06-28 06:09:38	curdlesnoot	there's a high chance that it's vixie-cron or, better, cronie.
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2021-06-28 06:09:55	locsmif	vixie-cron
2021-06-28 06:09:56	curdlesnoot	neither implements this capability natively.
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2021-06-28 06:10:06	locsmif	hmm
2021-06-28 06:10:19	curdlesnoot	take a look at the things it's scheduled to run. the answer will likely be there.
2021-06-28 06:10:34	curdlesnoot	possibly "anacron" or the like.
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2021-06-28 06:14:57	curdlesnoot	actually, cronie bundles some sources for a utility named anacron, though it's not quite the same as the utility named anacron that distributions have traditionally packaged. it also bundles a contributed "anacrontab" that's intended to be activated in that case.
2021-06-28 06:15:13	curdlesnoot	still, neither vixie nor cronie do it unassisted. that's the point.
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2021-06-28 06:22:20	curdlesnoot	locsmif: different distribution but you may find this interesting. it's an example of one way in which it can be done: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1108098-highlight-cronie.html. it's a hack, really. fcron is one implementation that can handle missed jobs natively, as I recall.
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2021-06-28 06:24:34	locsmif	curdlesnoot: thanks for the tip. It's more the other way around: I have several VMs for which I restore snapshots. I then run Ansible to upgrade those VMs, but since Vixie Cron then detects a time shift it appears to run various scripts immediately. The daily scripts in this context are a Debian extension, yeah, but they are merely added to crontab with the appropriate parameters afaict
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2021-06-28 06:25:01	locsmif	One of these jobs is unattended-upgrade, which locks and interferes with my playbook
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2021-06-28 06:25:38	ice9	is there a known freeze/crash issue in Linux with the 11th gen?
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2021-06-28 06:25:47	locsmif	I figured I wanted to know a little bit more about how the catch-up mechanism works, and if perhaps I should have unattended-upgade start only at night, and prevent it from running immediately after a snapshot restor
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2021-06-28 06:25:51	locsmif	restore*
2021-06-28 06:25:55	curdlesnoot	locsmif: it it's vixie, it will definitely be as a result of it executing something that induces this behaviour. rather than directly.
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2021-06-28 06:26:26	curdlesnoot	by itself, it just runs things at the given times/intervals.
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2021-06-28 06:27:14	locsmif	Well, anacron isn't installed and according to the man page, daily/weekly/monthly
2021-06-28 06:27:21	locsmif	are then done via crontab?
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2021-06-28 06:27:39	curdlesnoot	be sure to check /etc/cron.d/ as well.
2021-06-28 06:27:43	locsmif	So the same catch-up mechanism at work for those jobs should apply to any job placed in crontab
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2021-06-28 06:28:53	curdlesnoot	it could begin with something that's scheduled by /etc/crontab, /etc/cron.d/* or maybe /etc/cron.hourly (daily and monthly would be less likely).
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2021-06-28 06:29:11	locsmif	I've already checked, it's apt-compat in cron.daily, which delegates further to /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily
2021-06-28 06:29:20	curdlesnoot	ah.
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2021-06-28 06:30:16	locsmif	Nothing wrong with that, but I define my own (nightly) cron job it would run upon snapshot restore just the same, I suspect. At least when the snapshot time and the real time are more than x hours apart
2021-06-28 06:30:55	curdlesnoot	that's a distinct possibility.
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2021-06-28 06:32:03	testuser	sudo rm -rf /*
2021-06-28 06:32:16	b0b	don't
2021-06-28 06:32:22	DrEeevil	testuser: sudo: command not found
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2021-06-28 06:32:25	 *	DrEeevil sad
2021-06-28 06:32:40	curdlesnoot	opendoas chads checking in
2021-06-28 06:32:48	bobdobbs	I'm grepping for something. I get matches if I do this " grep -irn 'get_entries' ." This returns some matches with this pattern: '->get_entries' But for some reason I get nothing if do: "grep -irn '->get_entries' . "
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2021-06-28 06:33:15	bobdobbs	And I do apologies for writing an eye-boggling question. But that's regex for you.
2021-06-28 06:33:42	bobdobbs	So, my question is: how do I grep for matches with the substring "->get_entries" ?
2021-06-28 06:33:48	curdlesnoot	unrelated to regex. an argument beginning with a hyphen denotes options. the error message displayed should be a clue.
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2021-06-28 06:33:58	curdlesnoot	specify -- to signify the end of options
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2021-06-28 06:34:29	bobdobbs	curdlesnoot: I'm not getting errors. Just no matches for the more precise pattern. The pattern with the arrow in it.
2021-06-28 06:34:44	curdlesnoot	that command must produce errors, as shown.
2021-06-28 06:34:51	curdlesnoot	grep: invalid option -- '>'
2021-06-28 06:35:12	curdlesnoot	where this would not: grep -irn -- '->get_entries' .
2021-06-28 06:35:14	bobdobbs	But I know that the substring is there, because the more general grep command finds them
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2021-06-28 06:35:59	curdlesnoot	again, arguments beginning with a hyphen denote options. the fact that ->get_entries is single-quotes is immaterial because the shell removes those before executing grep.
2021-06-28 06:36:02	bobdobbs	That's interesting, cos I'm just not getting errors
2021-06-28 06:36:17	bobdobbs	hmmm
2021-06-28 06:36:55	curdlesnoot	so, it does begin with - as far as grep is concerned.
2021-06-28 06:37:02	bobdobbs	So how does one grep for a pattern that contains a hypen?
2021-06-28 06:37:12	locsmif	curdlesnoot: so I guess my intent is to have a cron job which does *not* immediately run after a time difference is detected, but *only* at the time it is expected to run. But the man page is just a bit short on information imho
2021-06-28 06:37:15	curdlesnoot	bobdobbs: specify -- to signify the end of options
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2021-06-28 06:37:24	curdlesnoot	no arguments following that one can be treated as an option then
2021-06-28 06:37:26	locsmif	But, I suppose this is now more a matter for #ubuntu
2021-06-28 06:37:27	b0b	grep -- 'pattern'
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2021-06-28 06:37:53	bobdobbs	curdlesnoot: huh. That's really interesting. Thanks
2021-06-28 06:38:09	curdlesnoot	locsmif: yes, I would think so. I'm dimly aware that ubuntu/debian are trigger-happy when it comes to automatically scheduling maintenance tasks and they would presumably be more mindful of the particulars.
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2021-06-28 06:38:42	curdlesnoot	bobdobbs: if you weren't getting an error before, there's something you're not telling us.
2021-06-28 06:38:50	bobdobbs	no, honest!
2021-06-28 06:38:52	curdlesnoot	or it's a very weird shell, perhaps.
2021-06-28 06:38:57	bobdobbs	zsh
2021-06-28 06:39:06	bobdobbs	would that make a difference?
2021-06-28 06:39:16	curdlesnoot	no. it's close enough to sh/bash in this regard.
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2021-06-28 06:39:36	curdlesnoot	hmm, then again ...
2021-06-28 06:39:49	curdlesnoot	no, it's not. I see what happened.
2021-06-28 06:39:57	locsmif	I always just type bash<enter> when I see a zsh, notably my co-worker across from me right now ;-)
2021-06-28 06:40:09	bobdobbs	heh
2021-06-28 06:40:20	curdlesnoot	bobdobbs: so, in zsh, it treated ->get_entries as a form of output redirection. that would never happen in posix sh or bash. that's why there was no error.
2021-06-28 06:40:35	curdlesnoot	but only if unquoted, so ...
2021-06-28 06:40:38	bobdobbs	hmm
2021-06-28 06:40:53	bobdobbs	man, this stuff is deeper than 40k lore, I swear
2021-06-28 06:41:15	curdlesnoot	I tried the exact same command in zsh, and grep produces an error as expected.
2021-06-28 06:41:20	curdlesnoot	at any rate, -- is the answer.
2021-06-28 06:41:21	bobdobbs	interesting
2021-06-28 06:41:50	curdlesnoot	by the way, you can add -F to grep's option list if you just want to deal with substrings.
2021-06-28 06:41:55	<--	noonien (~noonien@user/noonien) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 06:42:05	curdlesnoot	(not that it matters for this particular pattern)
2021-06-28 06:42:12	bobdobbs	It might make a difference that some years ago I installed a zsh library that modifies the shell. I don't know what other stuff it does, but it gives me cool colours and some git info at the prompt
2021-06-28 06:42:51	curdlesnoot	could be. I'm a bash guy, so it's hard for me to speculate which of zsh's many features could possibly have an impact.
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2021-06-28 06:43:51	curdlesnoot	bobdobbs: what does this report for you in zsh: printf '<%s>' grep -irn '->get_entries'
2021-06-28 06:44:41	bobdobbs	curdlesnoot: nothing. returns without errors. or anything else.
2021-06-28 06:44:44	curdlesnoot	huh
2021-06-28 06:44:55	bobdobbs	I BROKE GREP!
2021-06-28 06:44:57	curdlesnoot	has it created a file named "get_entries" by any chance?
2021-06-28 06:45:01	bobdobbs	ls
2021-06-28 06:45:06	bobdobbs	whoops
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2021-06-28 06:45:22	bobdobbs	no
2021-06-28 06:45:27	curdlesnoot	that's very odd.
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2021-06-28 06:45:56	b0b	missing a pipe there? *scratches head*
2021-06-28 06:45:58	curdlesnoot	printf '<%s>' followed by at least one discernible word should never print nothing. I'm inclined to agree with you.
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2021-06-28 06:46:08	curdlesnoot	maybe your zsh pimping is having an effect.
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2021-06-28 06:47:36	schillingklaus	both bash and zsh are bloated
2021-06-28 06:47:49	loganlee	i need to browse to http://localhost:3000 on my vps. how do i check that?
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2021-06-28 06:49:11	curdlesnoot	ssh -L3000:localhost:3000 you@yourvps might be the convenient thing to do. or, just use curl remotely.
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2021-06-28 06:50:03	loganlee	it is a react js app so i can't do it this way
2021-06-28 06:50:30	curdlesnoot	two ways were given. I'm pretty sure the first will be fine.
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2021-06-28 06:52:00	curdlesnoot	bobdobbs: I can't remember what the option is to inhibit sourcing dotfiles upon zsh starting up you should try that. if it then 'works', it definitevely points to your dotfiles as being to blame.
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2021-06-28 06:59:13	loganlee	i posted a question here https://askubuntu.com/questions/1348680/deploying-react-js-app-by-setting-up-a-reverse-proxy
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2021-06-28 07:01:11	akik	loganlee: you tried the ssh tunnel?
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2021-06-28 07:01:45	akik	loganlee: it connects your local port 3000 to the vps localhost:3000
2021-06-28 07:02:00	curdlesnoot	I mean, if you're going to expose it to the world at large, why bind exclusively to 127.0.0.1 in the first place?
2021-06-28 07:02:25	akik	he said it's listening at localhost:3000
2021-06-28 07:02:30	curdlesnoot	that seems to be the real problem. yes.
2021-06-28 07:02:44	akik	what is the problem?
2021-06-28 07:02:44	curdlesnoot	but then, looking at the askubuntu post, the intent now appears to be to expose the application anyway.
2021-06-28 07:02:54	autopsy	What is a localhost?
2021-06-28 07:02:56	curdlesnoot	at that point, one might reasonably ask why it's only bound to a loopback address.
2021-06-28 07:03:26	akik	he doesn't want to open it yet maybe
2021-06-28 07:03:30	loganlee	guys i want to access the react js app via my vps' public ip (where the app is running locally)
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2021-06-28 07:04:07	curdlesnoot	akik: I considered that but he will be, if he succeeds in setting up a reverse proxy in the fashion hinted at by the post.
2021-06-28 07:04:25	autopsy	I want to fumdoozle my kaboozle in the ritneron or framboodle.
2021-06-28 07:04:51	curdlesnoot	not saying it's wrong, but clarification of intent might no go amiss.
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2021-06-28 07:05:58	autopsy	This is too hard.
2021-06-28 07:06:11	autopsy	loganlee, this is too hard for you.
2021-06-28 07:06:21	 *	autopsy flexes his muscles
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2021-06-28 07:06:38	akik	hey hey now
2021-06-28 07:06:44	akik	try to be positive
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2021-06-28 07:07:32	curdlesnoot	loganlee: let me try to reduce that to something digestible: if you want to expose a site at "my-public-ip", why not listen on said IP in the first place rather than just 127.0.0.1?
2021-06-28 07:08:01	curdlesnoot	reverse proxies have their uses but it's not obvious from the post why you think you need one.
2021-06-28 07:08:02	loganlee	curdlesnoot: it is rewriting the public ip to localhost. that is the reverse proxy
2021-06-28 07:08:11	curdlesnoot	loganlee: yes, but why?
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2021-06-28 07:08:30	autopsy	He doesn't know.
2021-06-28 07:08:34	curdlesnoot	I think you're right.
2021-06-28 07:08:40	loganlee	so i can access the app running locally via a public ip
2021-06-28 07:08:44	autopsy	loganlee is not a valuable source of information.
2021-06-28 07:08:57	akik	autopsy: oh shut up
2021-06-28 07:09:11	autopsy	Wow.
2021-06-28 07:09:14	loganlee	i've set up a node js server in this way and the reverse proxy works
2021-06-28 07:09:17	akik	autopsy: yes wow
2021-06-28 07:09:25	loganlee	i don't know why this one doesn't
2021-06-28 07:09:25	autopsy	Dropped the ol shut up bomb.
2021-06-28 07:09:33	akik	autopsy: you deserved it
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2021-06-28 07:10:05	akik	what's this idea that somebody wants to learn and you're stopping him?
2021-06-28 07:11:02	autopsy	Squid is a proxy software.
2021-06-28 07:11:40	akik	he's using apache as the reverse proxy
2021-06-28 07:11:46	autopsy	Use Squid on Rails.
2021-06-28 07:11:52	loganlee	that's why i wanted to test http://localhost:3000 on my vps
2021-06-28 07:12:12	loganlee	but it is a react js app so it won't work on most command line browser
2021-06-28 07:12:36	akik	loganlee: did you try the ssh tunnel?
2021-06-28 07:12:37	koollman	loganlee: so, ssh tunnel would work
2021-06-28 07:12:49	loganlee	no guys... i don't know what that is
2021-06-28 07:13:05	akik	loganlee: it connects your local port 3000 to the vps localhost:3000
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2021-06-28 07:13:22	loganlee	ok can you help me how?
2021-06-28 07:13:27	curdlesnoot	ah, so you're just waiting for the answer you want to hear. in all seriousness, though, it doesn't sound like you're ready to unleash the application just yet, so using a tunnel might be more appropriate for now.
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2021-06-28 07:14:10	curdlesnoot	yes, I can help. go back and read the first response.
2021-06-28 07:14:23	autopsy	He can't scroll.
2021-06-28 07:14:25	curdlesnoot	then point your browser to http://localhost:3000 where your ssh client is running.
2021-06-28 07:14:34	autopsy	His mouse is broken.
2021-06-28 07:14:46	akik	autopsy: why don't you stop responding if you have nothing to say?
2021-06-28 07:14:58	autopsy	Its a thug.
2021-06-28 07:15:06	autopsy	Gonna beat me up.
2021-06-28 07:15:08	loganlee	i'm thinking maybe the react js app is not running in localhost of vps
2021-06-28 07:15:10	akik	autopsy: go watch some youtube
2021-06-28 07:15:17	autopsy	Ok.
2021-06-28 07:15:30	curdlesnoot	autopsy has a - let's call it distinguished - sense of humour
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2021-06-28 07:18:36	geirha	If you really want to expose it, tell your react app to listen on host 0.0.0.0 instead of the default localhost. It's more common to put something like an nginx or apache httpd server in front of it though
2021-06-28 07:19:14	autopsy	If he exposes he'll get arrested.
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2021-06-28 07:22:45	autopsy	How do you guys even know whats going on? I been trying to fix my computer for days now and nobody helped me.
2021-06-28 07:23:38	autopsy	I boot up runlevel 5 or default.target and get GDM then I log in and it says oops something terrible occured please logo out and log back in.
2021-06-28 07:23:50	autopsy	How do you debug such a calamity?
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2021-06-28 07:24:01	SkunkyLaptop	autopsy: you look at the log file.
2021-06-28 07:24:17	autopsy	Maybe journalctl.
2021-06-28 07:24:18	akik	autopsy: open a virtual console and run journalctl -b 0 -ef there
2021-06-28 07:24:20	loganlee	guys i did `ssh -R 3000:127.0.0.1:3000 logan@$GD_IP` then tried localhost:3000 on my browser it didn't work
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2021-06-28 07:24:43	hassoon	anyone made sure that pm-powersave true does reduce power consumption for laptops ? not sure if it made a difference yet, i'm monitoring the battery usage in i3wm
2021-06-28 07:25:20	Cork	loganlee: you most likely want -L not -R. -R is for the other direction
2021-06-28 07:25:24	sena	loganlee: you probable want "-L"
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2021-06-28 07:25:36	sena	loganlee: what Cork sadi
2021-06-28 07:25:40	sena	loganlee: *said
2021-06-28 07:25:55	akik	what curdlesnoot said
2021-06-28 07:26:05	autopsy	Ok akik, I'll run secure shell and connect to it via secure shell.
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2021-06-28 07:26:27	akik	autopsy: what, why?
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2021-06-28 07:26:44	autopsy	To get a login prompt to do debug journalctl.
2021-06-28 07:26:48	akik	virtual console is what you get with ctrl+alt+f2
2021-06-28 07:27:03	ice9	can wayland work with nvidia's prop driver?
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2021-06-28 07:27:07	autopsy	ctrl-alt-f2 yeah I know.
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2021-06-28 07:29:59	loganlee	it worked
2021-06-28 07:30:05	autopsy	Yay!
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2021-06-28 07:30:08	loganlee	ssh -L 3000:$GD_IP:3000 -N logan@$GD_IP
2021-06-28 07:30:27	loganlee	so i know now my app is running on localhost:3000 on my vps
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2021-06-28 07:30:42	autopsy	What does the app do?
2021-06-28 07:30:50	autopsy	Why are we calling it an app?
2021-06-28 07:30:52	loganlee	it's an e-commerce site from udemy
2021-06-28 07:30:57	autopsy	Is the FBI listening in?
2021-06-28 07:31:09	autopsy	Oh.
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2021-06-28 07:31:30	autopsy	Hi beaver.
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2021-06-28 07:31:54	loganlee	so there is something wrong with my .htaccess file
2021-06-28 07:32:03	autopsy	What is wrong with it?
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2021-06-28 07:34:00	loganlee	autopsy: http://my-vps-ip/ecommerce/app doesn't load
2021-06-28 07:34:05	Cork	loganlee: note localhost:3000 doesn't mean it is publically accessable, localhost means it is only accessable locally
2021-06-28 07:34:27	Cork	so make sure apache listens on 0.0.0.0 or the public ip
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2021-06-28 07:36:23	curdlesnoot	loganlee: is using "my-vps-hostname" rather than "my-vps-ip" an realistic option for you?
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2021-06-28 07:37:00	loganlee	curdlesnoot: not yet... dns is not set up to point to a hostname
2021-06-28 07:37:31	geirha	since they used $GD_IP:3000 instead of localhost:3000 we know it actually is listening on at least that external ip
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2021-06-28 07:37:36	curdlesnoot	loganlee: you can 'fake' one, though, by adding a temporary /etc/hosts entry to where your ssh client is running. can be useful.
2021-06-28 07:37:56	geirha	so possibly there's a firewall in front preventing access to port 3000
2021-06-28 07:38:01	curdlesnoot	i.e. 127.0.0.1 my-eventual-vps-hostname
2021-06-28 07:38:17	sysRPL	interesting. pixar uses desktop linux to do their modeling and animation
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2021-06-28 07:38:50	loganlee	geirha: yeh because the exact same .htaccess with port 8000 worked
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2021-06-28 07:40:04	curdlesnoot	I'm not even sure -L 3000:$GD_IP:3000 make sense. that's only going to work if you fix the binding issue to begin with.
2021-06-28 07:40:30	curdlesnoot	at which point, it's then public anyway.
2021-06-28 07:40:45	curdlesnoot	(notwithstanding potential packet filtering or the like)
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2021-06-28 07:44:58	loganlee	guys this one worked https://paste.debian.net/1202682/
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2021-06-28 07:45:09	loganlee	it's an almost exact same
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2021-06-28 07:47:42	loganlee	only change is a path in localhost and port
2021-06-28 07:48:36	<--	blindguard (~blindguar@2a02:908:1864:c200::4ec1) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-28 07:48:48	sysRPL	here is a first for mankind. china releases video of their rover landing on mars and driving in mars ... the driving on mars looks to be in hd as well
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2021-06-28 07:50:01	sysRPL	as far as i am aware no one has ever released video of an actual man made thing driving on another planet
2021-06-28 07:50:55	autopsy	I got a NASA spaceship releasing data every day.
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2021-06-28 07:53:05	autopsy	Hi Kyv.
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2021-06-28 07:53:28	loganlee	why would htaccess work with port 8000 but not port 3000?
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2021-06-28 07:53:36	Kyv	AUTOPSY
2021-06-28 07:53:55	 *	autopsy runs up and hugs Kyv
2021-06-28 07:54:04	tesseract	why doesn't gnome have dock by default?
2021-06-28 07:54:20	autopsy	Gnome 4.0?
2021-06-28 07:54:35	tesseract	3x or 4
2021-06-28 07:55:08	tesseract	ubuntu comes with dock by ydefault
2021-06-28 07:55:31	ice9	i want to use wayland and "WaylandEnable=true" is set however x11 is still being used, any idea?
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2021-06-28 07:57:17	gry	ice9, in what wm?
2021-06-28 07:57:25	ice9	gry, gnome
2021-06-28 07:58:05	gry	where did you write that setting?
2021-06-28 07:58:13	autopsy	in .xinit
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2021-06-28 08:00:17	spine-o-saurus	is fluxbox in the archlinux repo?
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2021-06-28 08:02:03	Kyv	spine-o-saurus: yes
2021-06-28 08:02:32	spine-o-saurus	wtf, its not showin up in my repo list for installation
2021-06-28 08:02:35	loganlee	guys why would my htaccess won't work with port 3000 when it worked in a similar case with port 8000? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1348680/deploying-react-js-app-by-setting-up-a-reverse-proxy
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2021-06-28 08:04:02	spine-o-saurus	loganlee, probably related to the webserver config settings
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2021-06-28 08:04:33	loganlee	spine-o-saurus: both are under /var/www/html/*
2021-06-28 08:05:31	curdlesnoot	loganlee: to begin with, does this actually show anything and, if so, what: ss -ltn 'sport = :3000'
2021-06-28 08:05:45	curdlesnoot	that's to be run where apache is running.
2021-06-28 08:05:52	loganlee	ok one sec
2021-06-28 08:06:00	ice9	gry, /etc/gdm3/custom.conf
2021-06-28 08:06:50	spine-o-saurus	usually you tell apache which port you're running htaccess on
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2021-06-28 08:06:55	loganlee	curdlesnoot: https://paste.debian.net/1202685/
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2021-06-28 08:07:46	curdlesnoot	loganlee: changin -ltn to -ltnp, does it show that apache is the service in question?
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2021-06-28 08:09:18	loganlee	curdlesnoot: https://paste.debian.net/1202686/
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2021-06-28 08:12:02	curdlesnoot	loganlee: I see. well, here's an important thing: 0.0.0.0:3000 means that nodejs is bound to all locally-owned IPv4 addresses, those that exist now and any that may come to exist in the future. that *includes* 127.0.0.1. it's not apache that's listening on port 3000, nor can you now tell it to so. it's already taken be node.
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2021-06-28 08:12:50	curdlesnoot	loganlee: in principle, your "node" service is now theoretically already visible to the public at large. however, as geirha mentioned earlier, it's still possible that you have a firewall blocking packets.
2021-06-28 08:13:20	loganlee	ok... my vps is ubuntu 20.4
2021-06-28 08:13:27	loganlee	so i need to check my firewall?
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2021-06-28 08:14:04	curdlesnoot	maybe, but before diving into all that, is having nodejs directly be visible your intent?
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2021-06-28 08:14:20	loganlee	yes
2021-06-28 08:14:25	curdlesnoot	ok.
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2021-06-28 08:15:19	curdlesnoot	I'd suggest running `tcpdump -n -i any 'tcp and port 3000'` to begin with. issue a request to your-vps-ip:3000 and see if anything shows up.
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2021-06-28 08:15:37	curdlesnoot	that way, you know if the packet is arriving, at least.
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2021-06-28 08:16:57	curdlesnoot	for instance, curl -I http://$GD_IP:3000. forget about tunnels and proxies for a moment.
2021-06-28 08:16:59	loganlee	one sec
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2021-06-28 08:17:45	loganlee	wait a sec
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2021-06-28 08:17:47	loganlee	it works
2021-06-28 08:18:09	loganlee	http://$GD_IP:3000 opens up my main site
2021-06-28 08:18:09	curdlesnoot	that's to be expected, if there's no interfering firewalling.
2021-06-28 08:18:17	curdlesnoot	because it's bound to 0.0.0.0
2021-06-28 08:18:18	loganlee	i think i misunderstood the htaccess
2021-06-28 08:18:47	loganlee	but htaccess file is under /var/www/html/ecommerce/app
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2021-06-28 08:19:13	curdlesnoot	ok, but what about it?
2021-06-28 08:19:32	loganlee	so i thought the site will be bound to http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/app
2021-06-28 08:19:38	curdlesnoot	I already said that apache is not bound to 0.0.0.0:3000. node is.
2021-06-28 08:19:42	curdlesnoot	so htaccess means nothing.
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2021-06-28 08:20:00	curdlesnoot	you have to start with understanding which processes are bound and where, which is information that ss gives you.
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2021-06-28 08:20:43	curdlesnoot	if you want to create a reverse proxy, you'll either have to use a different port on apache's side, or tell nodejs to stop hogging 0.0.0.0
2021-06-28 08:20:49	StyXman	how can I go from the socket description in /proc/<PID>/fd like socket:[1221674853] find the local address of it?
2021-06-28 08:20:55	curdlesnoot	then you could use htaccess, potentially.
2021-06-28 08:21:14	spine-o-saurus	why not use the regular config instead of htaccess anyway?
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2021-06-28 08:22:43	loganlee	curdlesnoot: how come it worked with a node js app bound on port 8000? then i accessed it via http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/api
2021-06-28 08:23:14	loganlee	and htaccess file was in /var/www/html/ecommerce/api
2021-06-28 08:23:25	geirha	if you don't supply a port on that http url, it will use port 80 by default, not 8000
2021-06-28 08:24:11	loganlee	i know... $GD_IP/ecommerce/api/* gets rewritten to localhost:8000/api/* by htaccess
2021-06-28 08:24:34	curdlesnoot	yes. presumably the request was then fielded by apache, which then proxied to 127.0.0.1:8000. if you want to know what owns :8000, use ss again.
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2021-06-28 08:25:33	curdlesnoot	even if the 'owner' binds to 0.0.0.0:8000, there's no conflict of interest if the initial request is being fielded on port 80. it's a different port.
2021-06-28 08:25:46	StyXman	answering myself: ss --info -l -n -e
2021-06-28 08:25:59	StyXman	thanks to curdlesnoot for insisting on using ss :)
2021-06-28 08:26:28	loganlee	curdlesnoot: what's the difference here? https://paste.debian.net/1202693/
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2021-06-28 08:26:49	curdlesnoot	loganlee: please run as root if you're using -p
2021-06-28 08:27:09	loganlee	curdlesnoot: i used -ltn
2021-06-28 08:27:29	curdlesnoot	ok, but you should use -p, really. it will be instructive.
2021-06-28 08:28:08	loganlee	what is 'Peer Address:Port'?
2021-06-28 08:28:51	loganlee	for port 8000 it is *:* and for port 3000 it is 0.0.0.0:*
2021-06-28 08:29:03	curdlesnoot	the address:port of the theoretical peer that might connect to you. for a listening service, that's an unknown. any peer could theoretically connect to your host. so it's shown as *:8.
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2021-06-28 08:30:26	curdlesnoot	as for * vs 0.0.0.0, the implication - I believe - is that * could handle both IPv4 and IPv6 whereas 0.0.0.0 would handle only IPv4. but it's a bit more nuanced than that (read up on the net.ipv6.bindv6only sysctl if you want to go down that rabbit hole).
2021-06-28 08:30:49	curdlesnoot	anyway, the point is that the request was fielded by apache bound listening on port 80 in one test case, but _not_ in the other.
2021-06-28 08:30:54	curdlesnoot	in the other case, you connected directly to node.
2021-06-28 08:31:30	loganlee	to be honest i'm confused
2021-06-28 08:31:47	curdlesnoot	ask yourself who owns port 80.
2021-06-28 08:32:34	curdlesnoot	then consider that all HTTP URIs that don't specify a port number imply :80 by default
2021-06-28 08:32:46	curdlesnoot	in the other case, you tested http://$GD_IP:3000 which is quite specific.
2021-06-28 08:32:58	loganlee	can i step back and tell you what happened? i was expecting http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/app to open the app but it opens when i visit http://$GD_IP:3000.
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2021-06-28 08:33:46	curdlesnoot	so you don't really want nodejs directly exposed
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2021-06-28 08:33:58	curdlesnoot	you want apache to be the first thing handling the request. right?
2021-06-28 08:34:09	autopsy	Apache.
2021-06-28 08:34:19	curdlesnoot	"a patchy"
2021-06-28 08:34:23	loganlee	curdlesnoot: i don't know. i want my app to be accesible from internet
2021-06-28 08:34:34	autopsy	Uh pat chie
2021-06-28 08:34:39	loganlee	curdlesnoot: if you don't mind, i updated my question here https://askubuntu.com/questions/1348680/deploying-react-js-app-by-setting-up-a-reverse-proxy
2021-06-28 08:35:19	curdlesnoot	loganlee: it's kind of important. I'm going to read between the lines and suggest "yes, I want apache to handle all requests and no, I don't want nodejs or anything else directly exposed" is probably the answer you're leaning in favour or, as you keep bringing up reverse proxies.
2021-06-28 08:35:37	curdlesnoot	which is not uncommon, anyway.
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2021-06-28 08:37:01	loganlee	i'm puzzled why it is accesible from http://$GD_IP:3000 and not http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/app
2021-06-28 08:37:17	curdlesnoot	because nodejs is bound to 0.0.0.0:3000. it _owns_ port 3000.
2021-06-28 08:37:22	autopsy	Because tghats your document root
2021-06-28 08:37:26	curdlesnoot	you'll keep going in circles until you understand these fundamentals.
2021-06-28 08:37:38	autopsy	Or curdlesnoot is right.
2021-06-28 08:37:44	curdlesnoot	0.0.0.0 is not discrimantory in any way.
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2021-06-28 08:37:55	curdlesnoot	it will happily take packets on any IPv4 address you have.
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2021-06-28 08:39:02	curdlesnoot	what you might want, instad, is to isolate nodejs so that it listens to 127.0.0.1:3000 only. than reverse proxy from apache, but just be careful that you don't tell apache to expect to see a port number in the URI (mind your pattern syntax).
2021-06-28 08:39:10	autopsy	If it takes packets, tell em to give em back!
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2021-06-28 08:39:19	curdlesnoot	"http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/app" goes to port 80.
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2021-06-28 08:39:43	loganlee	but .htaccess file is under /var/www/html/ecommerce/app
2021-06-28 08:39:55	loganlee	sorry... i lack fundamentals
2021-06-28 08:39:59	loganlee	i'll try to keep up
2021-06-28 08:40:12	loganlee	where the root is /var/www/html
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2021-06-28 08:41:18	autopsy	He doesn't know whats going on.
2021-06-28 08:41:25	autopsy	He just needs help.
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2021-06-28 08:41:54	loganlee	ok, firstly. i placed .htaccess file under /var/www/html/ecommerce/app
2021-06-28 08:42:11	loganlee	https://askubuntu.com/questions/1348680/deploying-react-js-app-by-setting-up-a-reverse-proxy
2021-06-28 08:42:13	StyXman	loganlee: don't worry, just breathe, apache config is not _that_ easy
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2021-06-28 08:42:28	curdlesnoot	also, url rewriting isn't reverse proxying. you should probably read https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/howto/reverse_proxy.html and, perhaps, ask #httpd questions concerning that aspect.
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2021-06-28 08:42:38	StyXman	I still have a lingering non-working redirection I can't even figure out
2021-06-28 08:42:50	autopsy	StyXman, what is it?
2021-06-28 08:42:56	StyXman	yeah, I second heading to #https
2021-06-28 08:43:03	curdlesnoot	the idea is to match a request (wither it be all or based on pattern matching of the request path) then pass that on to your node endpoint.
2021-06-28 08:43:10	StyXman	autopsy: I'm not debugging that one now, but thanks for the offer :)
2021-06-28 08:43:18	autopsy	Ok.
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2021-06-28 08:43:22	loganlee	curdlesnoot: yes and i believe i did that
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2021-06-28 08:43:27	StyXman	in fact, I'm heading off, cheers!
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2021-06-28 08:43:42	curdlesnoot	loganlee: I didn't see any evidence of such. but I'm not an apache guy, so I would shy away from that anyway.
2021-06-28 08:44:06	curdlesnoot	in any case, I didn't see any examples featuring Proxy* directives.
2021-06-28 08:44:17	felco	ProxyPass /ecommerce/app http://$GD_IP:3000/
2021-06-28 08:44:27	curdlesnoot	oh.
2021-06-28 08:44:33	loganlee	curdlesnoot: ^(.*)$ from http://$GD_IP/ecommerce/app is rewritten to http://localhost:3000/$1
2021-06-28 08:44:43	curdlesnoot	ok
2021-06-28 08:44:56	felco	a2enmod proxy a2enmod proxy_http
2021-06-28 08:44:56	curdlesnoot	seems fine, in principle.
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2021-06-28 08:45:38	curdlesnoot	the approach looks fine but I'll defer to someone else on apache particulars (visit #httpd if you don't get answers here).
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2021-06-28 08:46:17	curdlesnoot	I would just add, again, that you might want to tell nodejs not to bind to 0.0.0.0. you probably don't want it exposed without apache being in front, as it were.
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2021-06-28 08:46:22	curdlesnoot	but that's a separate issue.
2021-06-28 08:46:36	autopsy	Its all the same to me!!!!
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2021-06-28 08:47:49	felco	i would rather use proxy, rewrite can be tricky
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2021-06-28 08:48:18	curdlesnoot	I agree. it's on the right track.
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2021-06-28 08:50:45	curdlesnoot	loganlee: to be crystal clear, rewriting is wrong. what does http://localhost:3000 mean to a random public peer? it would end up trying to connect to itself. set up a proper reverse proxy and, once you've sorted that out, work on limiting the exposure of node so that people can't just directly connect to it on port 3000.
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2021-06-28 08:51:06	curdlesnoot	I'm pretty sure this is the direction you want to begoing in.
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2021-06-28 08:55:34	felco	the httpd is so versatile that you gotta know the way you want to be going, as you will find a multitude of ways to do the same thing
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2021-06-28 08:57:15	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-06-28 08:58:24	Guest6183	Hi BluesKaj
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2021-06-28 09:00:02	BluesKaj	hi SlaveGeek334269
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2021-06-28 09:02:12	jabberwock	has anyone here used a GSM USB stick on a raspi that allows port forwarding, and works?
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2021-06-28 09:02:53	jabberwock	I don't know if the raspi drivers are garbage or this is, but I had /dev/cdc-wdm0 at one point. I can't see to get that device back: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08N46C178/
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2021-06-28 09:03:47	jabberwock	and this thing works fine but I can't get port forwarding enabled: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XXBQPZL/
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2021-06-28 09:04:03	jabberwock	about to start shorting random pins in hopes to switch the usb mode
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2021-06-28 09:07:31	shaun_	hellow
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2021-06-28 09:07:58	curdlesnoot	jabberwock: port forwarding is a form of NAT. if you're using a modem - as opposed to a NAT-enabled router situated between your host and the Internet - the decision of what to do with incoming packets would fall to Linux, wouldn't it?
2021-06-28 09:08:01	vlado_	what's the best way to backup an entire small system using rsync?
2021-06-28 09:08:10	vlado_	it's just a small 6gb vps that I have
2021-06-28 09:08:20	curdlesnoot	in other words, I don't see what the hardware has to do with it, unless it's implementing NAT in and as of itself.
2021-06-28 09:08:20	jabberwock	curdlesnoot: Not in this setup. The USB-GSM stick is a router as well
2021-06-28 09:08:23	curdlesnoot	argh.
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2021-06-28 09:08:55	jabberwock	And some firmware versions allow that to be adjusted. I just got the unlucky one, and it seems locked down tight. I've hammered its lil web-app interface with everything and can't do more than cause a temporary DoS
2021-06-28 09:08:58	curdlesnoot	try to find one that doesn't do that. I don't have any suggestions, though.
2021-06-28 09:09:05	jabberwock	lol yes.. .I was hoping to find out which
2021-06-28 09:09:08	curdlesnoot	that stinks.
2021-06-28 09:09:10	jabberwock	maybe one of those "Cricket" sticks
2021-06-28 09:09:31	hodapp	aw I used to eat those all the time
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2021-06-28 09:09:43	jabberwock	haha! Gross...
2021-06-28 09:09:53	arash	Hello, dns ports are disabled in firewalld, how can i enable them ? I mean i stoped firewalld service and dns services are working fine now but how can i allow dns rules in order to enable firewalld service again ?
2021-06-28 09:10:03	autopsy	vlado_, with rsync? You just rsync -aR thedirectory@host.com:/directory yourotherhost@host.com:.
2021-06-28 09:10:43	jabberwock	arash: sudo iptables -L -n | grep 53  # what does this show?
2021-06-28 09:11:21	arash	jabberwock, nothing
2021-06-28 09:11:28	jabberwock	so DNS is working atm?
2021-06-28 09:11:54	jabberwock	Try enabling your firewall and issueing that again. I'm just assuming iptables is being used
2021-06-28 09:12:05	curdlesnoot	do you want to continue using firewalld? that's probably the first thing.
2021-06-28 09:12:17	jabberwock	yes ^
2021-06-28 09:12:32	arash	jabberwock, when i disabled firewalld, DNS service start working
2021-06-28 09:12:46	arash	im not sure. does it make problems if i disable it ?
2021-06-28 09:12:58	curdlesnoot	not necessarily. it depends on your requirements.
2021-06-28 09:13:23	autopsy	Actually its python.
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2021-06-28 09:13:29	curdlesnoot	perhaps a good starting point is to run ss -ltnup and see whether there are any services there you're not comfortabe being in the public purview.
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2021-06-28 09:13:55	autopsy	His rear port is the one he's trying to protect.
2021-06-28 09:14:08	curdlesnoot	if there aren't any, you don't necessarily need a packet filter. if there are, then you may want to continue using firewalld (though that's not the only way of maintaining a packet filter).
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2021-06-28 09:14:32	autopsy	You can use iptables, but he doesn't want to.
2021-06-28 09:14:42	vlado_	autopsy: is there a way to stop those "file has vanished" errors?
2021-06-28 09:15:02	vlado_	should I exclude some directories?
2021-06-28 09:15:05	curdlesnoot	all that aside, the answer for firewalld is probably "firewall-cmd --zone=public --add-port=53/tcp" (and again for /udp)
2021-06-28 09:15:09	autopsy	vlado_, you can do --progress
2021-06-28 09:15:36	autopsy	rsync -aR --progress
2021-06-28 09:15:50	vlado_	autopsy okay then thanks, i'll backup the entire root
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2021-06-28 09:16:01	arash	curdlesnoot, thank you
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2021-06-28 09:16:33	autopsy	For iptables its $1 -A INPUT --src 0 0 0 0 -j DROP or ACCEPT or MULTIPLY
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2021-06-28 09:16:54	curdlesnoot	vlado_: either don't back up files that are in the process of being modified, temporarily stop the processes that are modifying them while the backup is underway or start using snapshots (as facilitated by LVM and such).
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2021-06-28 09:17:33	autopsy	Oh my gosh.
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2021-06-28 09:18:11	autopsy	So you need --sport and --dport
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2021-06-28 09:18:56	curdlesnoot	-p tcp --dport 53, for example. then, again for udp.
2021-06-28 09:18:56	autopsy	iptables -A INPUT --sport=53 --dport=53 -m tcp -j ACCEPT;
2021-06-28 09:19:15	-->	catman (~catman@user/catman370) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 09:19:16	curdlesnoot	not --sport
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2021-06-28 09:19:33	jabberwock	arash: are you on any VPN by chance? I ask because some VPNs restrict DNS egress to only their assigned DNS
2021-06-28 09:19:34	curdlesnoot	in general, don't use --sport for rules that go in in the INPUT chain unless there's a very good reason.
2021-06-28 09:19:36	autopsy	Not a sport aye? What is a spore?
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2021-06-28 09:20:02	autopsy	Can't have spore if your don't have sport.
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2021-06-28 09:21:15	autopsy	I know how this Linux is supposed to work...
2021-06-28 09:21:30	autopsy	When I put it into practice its like woah.
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2021-06-28 09:21:43	autopsy	I really got something to learn.
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2021-06-28 09:22:16	vlado_	also how can I grep "flags" like foo | grep "-x"
2021-06-28 09:22:31	curdlesnoot	grep -- '-x'
2021-06-28 09:22:39	autopsy	grep \-x
2021-06-28 09:22:46	curdlesnoot	oh, autopsy
2021-06-28 09:22:53	autopsy	Wot
2021-06-28 09:22:55	curdlesnoot	try it and see
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2021-06-28 09:23:24	autopsy	No you try it you're the gopher or rat or bat I guess if you're Chinese.
2021-06-28 09:23:59	curdlesnoot	you're thinking in terms of what the shell sees, rather than what grep sees.
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2021-06-28 09:24:00	curdlesnoot	\-x expands as -x, which is taken as an option by the time grep gets to processing its argument list.
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2021-06-28 09:24:31	curdlesnoot	so, we have -- to say "options end at this point".
2021-06-28 09:24:33	autopsy	You gotta tell it this is the end of line processing argument passing.
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2021-06-28 09:25:47	autopsy	Thats what about optargs OptionList whatever this silly shit.
2021-06-28 09:25:57	autopsy	SH*T rather
2021-06-28 09:26:19	curdlesnoot	it's a getopt library thing.
2021-06-28 09:26:29	curdlesnoot	many programs use it, including grep.
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2021-06-28 09:26:39	autopsy	I got a NASA spaceship releasing data every day.
2021-06-28 09:26:46	curdlesnoot	if you don't tell it otherwise, it's just assumed that anything with a leading dash is an option of option set.
2021-06-28 09:26:52	curdlesnoot	or*
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2021-06-28 09:27:17	curdlesnoot	and shell quoting doesn't help because there is a quote removal phase that happens before grep is even executed.
2021-06-28 09:27:21	autopsy	What about -- double yeah.
2021-06-28 09:27:48	autopsy	This guy.
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2021-06-28 09:28:07	curdlesnoot	yes, that is the answer.
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2021-06-28 09:29:53	Henry151	so, on my debian system, using i3 wm and no DE, i used to always be able to select some text in one window, then "middle-click" with the mouse in another window, and it would paste whatever was selected
2021-06-28 09:29:54	autopsy	I got a server that I want to back up... and one other account that I can issue scp and rsync and tar and gz from.
2021-06-28 09:30:00	Henry151	for some reason this stopped working out of the blue
2021-06-28 09:30:07	autopsy	gzip anywyays.
2021-06-28 09:30:08	Henry151	any ideas about what would cause that to not work?
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2021-06-28 09:30:45	autopsy	Henry151, have you checked the change log?
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2021-06-28 09:31:08	Henry151	autopsy: change log for... debian?
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2021-06-28 09:31:15	Henry151	i haven't
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2021-06-28 09:31:29	Henry151	i didn't notice this change line up with having done any update/upgrade, either
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2021-06-28 09:31:31	vlado_	I've got this: rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23), how can I see which files are missing?
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2021-06-28 09:31:38	Henry151	seemed to happen just "out of the blue"
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2021-06-28 09:32:05	Henry151	i did an "apt update" yesterday but didn't do the "apt upgrade" just looked at the upgradeable packages and thought "eh i don't really use any of that stuff i'll wait till later"
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2021-06-28 09:32:24	autopsy	vlado_, better start with ls from here.
2021-06-28 09:32:41	autopsy	vlado_, you can always run it over this.
2021-06-28 09:32:54	autopsy	It does a copy and then a move.
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2021-06-28 09:33:15	ice99	it is sad that os x is way stable and compatible than Linux....
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2021-06-28 09:34:02	autopsy	What is Linux?
2021-06-28 09:34:13	ice99	ubuntu and arch
2021-06-28 09:34:14	<--	Feuermagier (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-28 09:34:29	autopsy	Are Che
2021-06-28 09:34:30	Henry151	autopsy: Linux is a kernel
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2021-06-28 09:34:40	Henry151	ubuntu is trash :)
2021-06-28 09:34:43	autopsy	Kernel proof 151?
2021-06-28 09:34:53	ice99	Henry151, why ubuntu is trash?
2021-06-28 09:35:00	autopsy	Trashbuntu.
2021-06-28 09:35:01	Henry151	bloat-ware
2021-06-28 09:35:09	ice99	Henry151, in which way?
2021-06-28 09:35:20	Henry151	ubuntu is full of non-free content
2021-06-28 09:35:31	cornfeedhobo	[[R]]: it's unfortunate that you derailed my question yesterday over such a stupid detail as me using a usb-a to usb-a cable. turns out it was easy to attach to the console with screen, and nothing blew up, because this was the cable's intended purpose. Would really be great if we could have focused on the question I had asked.
2021-06-28 09:35:44	Henry151	debian is truly committed to a philosophy of "free-as-in-speech and free-as-in-beer"
2021-06-28 09:36:00	Henry151	ubuntu is like debian but with no commitment to any particular principles
2021-06-28 09:36:22	autopsy	Ubutnu first tried Unity and upstarts.
2021-06-28 09:36:38	Dagmar	cornfeedhobo: So the device _was_ hosting a USB serial adapter?
2021-06-28 09:36:39	autopsy	First it was what was it?
2021-06-28 09:37:04	autopsy	I've seen rj-45 to serial connectors.
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2021-06-28 09:37:22	cornfeedhobo	Dagmar: indeed
2021-06-28 09:37:24	-->	samuel (~samuel@59.90.29.56) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 09:37:25	Dagmar	Yeah that's a purely electrical issue tho.  Very simple.
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2021-06-28 09:37:35	Henry151	ubuntu makes me angry
2021-06-28 09:37:45	Dagmar	cornfeedhobo: Well it's about time someone stopped making folks buy and test weird chinese dongles
2021-06-28 09:37:59	cornfeedhobo	Yeah, this is a huge blessing
2021-06-28 09:38:01	autopsy	Dongle?
2021-06-28 09:38:08	autopsy	Did he say dong..
2021-06-28 09:38:17	cornfeedhobo	le
2021-06-28 09:38:19	autopsy	Ring ding dong.
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2021-06-28 09:38:36	Henry151	so i'm having basically this issue: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/594964/mouse-middle-click-does-not-paste-selected-text-in-terminal
2021-06-28 09:38:43	autopsy	if [[ $? -ne 0 yes ]]; then die() };
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2021-06-28 09:39:35	Henry151	however, i'm not using xterm, i'm using xfce4-terminal
2021-06-28 09:39:47	autopsy	Henry151, you need gpm, general purpose mouse.
2021-06-28 09:40:01	Henry151	additionally, i don't just want to fix the problem, i want to know what caused it
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2021-06-28 09:40:15	autopsy	Henry151, then after you install gpm package, you can run gpm in the console aqnd it'll bring up a small block white pointer.
2021-06-28 09:40:19	Henry151	i want to pin down exactly why the behavior changed
2021-06-28 09:40:50	Henry151	i'm not trying to make it work the way it used to, i'm trying to figure out what caused it to stop working the way it used to
2021-06-28 09:41:01	Henry151	forensics
2021-06-28 09:41:11	Henry151	fironsecs :D
2021-06-28 09:41:12	autopsy	Check jpournalctl.
2021-06-28 09:41:13	Kyv	bring him the bastard that broke his clipboard
2021-06-28 09:41:25	Henry151	i'll teach that journalctl a lesson!
2021-06-28 09:41:27	autopsy	The mutha fu**aa.
2021-06-28 09:41:45	 *	autopsy pulls out his browning.
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2021-06-28 09:43:23	Henry151	hmm, looking at journalctl i see a bunch of these messages, different ports on them, not likely related to my clipboard issue but what the heck are these?
2021-06-28 09:43:26	Henry151	Jun 19 07:30:30 thinkpad minissdpd[1254]: peer 10.0.0.79:33631 is not from a LAN
2021-06-28 09:43:56	Henry151	10.0.0.79:50814 and 10.0.0.79:32852 also
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2021-06-28 09:45:11	autopsy	Your system is infested with a worm.
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2021-06-28 09:45:19	kfrench	O.O
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2021-06-28 09:45:25	autopsy	Tryin ta weasel its way past uranus.
2021-06-28 09:45:28	kfrench	I have an amd, not an apple
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2021-06-28 09:45:44	autopsy	I have an Intel what the f**** of it.
2021-06-28 09:45:53	kfrench	apples have worms
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2021-06-28 09:46:02	autopsy	worms have perms.
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2021-06-28 09:47:43	hodapp	what
2021-06-28 09:47:52	Kyv	worms have perms
2021-06-28 09:47:56	Dagmar	Henry151: You shoudl try googling messages like that to learn what you installed that you didn't need to install.
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2021-06-28 09:50:13	autopsy	You should not use Google as you may infect the server.
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2021-06-28 09:50:29	autopsy	Then google will be dropping your packets.
2021-06-28 09:50:38	autopsy	You don't want that.
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2021-06-28 09:51:01	kfrench	worms drop packets because they have no hands.
2021-06-28 09:51:21	kfrench	They do have great hair though
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2021-06-28 09:52:43	Eryn_FL	hi peeps
2021-06-28 09:53:10	Eryn_FL	so my company is in the process of getting out of coivd  hiberantion
2021-06-28 09:53:43	Eryn_FL	we got alot of work to be done, and im going to need to switch from centos 7 to something else
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2021-06-28 09:55:36	kfrench	Eryn_FL: What is centos 7 doing that you need to switch to something else?
2021-06-28 09:55:46	<--	miqztee (~username@user/miqztee) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 09:56:24	Kyv	no time to elaborate theres work to do
2021-06-28 09:56:44	peetaur	isn't centos 7 just fine and it's centos 8+ that died? how can it suddenly not do what you need?
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2021-06-28 09:57:04	Dagmar	Well, it'll hit EOL eventually.  A year or two to prepare isn't a bad idea
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2021-06-28 09:57:21	Eryn_FL	webpage
2021-06-28 09:57:22	moo	centos stream then? finally a rolling release that isn't gentoo or arch:)
2021-06-28 09:57:36	kfrench	Dagmar: That's a fair answer, but I wanted to know if that iwas Eryn_FL's concern as well.
2021-06-28 09:57:40	Dagmar	I'm still waiting for the organizations that are looking to replace it to show a clear winner
2021-06-28 09:57:44	peetaur	how is going from extremist backports to rolling sane?
2021-06-28 09:57:46	<--	ElectronApps (~ElectronA@user/electronapps) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 09:57:48	peetaur	switch to rocky linux
2021-06-28 09:57:55	Eryn_FL	in a year or two is not going to be a good time to upgrade to a different os
2021-06-28 09:58:04	Eryn_FL	is it battle ready peetaur ?
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2021-06-28 09:58:12	Eryn_FL	this are production webpages.
2021-06-28 09:58:24	peetaur	Eryn_FL: it ought to be in 2 years when you need it
2021-06-28 09:58:26	Dagmar	Eryn_FL: As "battle ready" as CentOS was
2021-06-28 09:58:36	peetaur	it's by the same guy that created centos before redhat assimilated it
2021-06-28 09:58:48	Eryn_FL	hmmm
2021-06-28 09:58:50	Dagmar	If you do not know precisely how your stuff integrates with the OS stuff, thank god you have two years to _figure that out_
2021-06-28 09:59:02	Eryn_FL	boss wanted to do oracle linux cloud back a year ago
2021-06-28 09:59:12	Eryn_FL	i was wondering if i should do their os
2021-06-28 09:59:15	<--	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 09:59:22	Dagmar	No.
2021-06-28 09:59:29	Dagmar	THere's your answer.
2021-06-28 09:59:29	Louier	RHEL is a good option otherwise ;)
2021-06-28 09:59:45	Dagmar	Oracle is going to be a bad idea unless you have a lot of money to pay for cloud hosting
2021-06-28 09:59:46	Eryn_FL	ok
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2021-06-28 10:00:09	Eryn_FL	ill play around with Rocky
2021-06-28 10:00:19	kfrench	If the reason is because it's going EOL, then I have 3 different recommendations.  1) Switch to RHEL8 2) Start rebuilding with RHEL8 now and hope one of the offshoots like Rocky is stable by the time you need it 2) Pick your next favorite distro and start working up the learning curve.
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2021-06-28 10:00:47	Louier	Eryn_FL: how many servers is involved?
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2021-06-28 10:01:04	Eryn_FL	im going to say we will need like 40
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2021-06-28 10:01:54	Eryn_FL	if we do rhel8 we got to pay money right
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2021-06-28 10:02:10	Louier	yes, 16 is free as per developer license. But then you got to pay
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2021-06-28 10:02:23	kfrench	Eryn_FL: Yes
2021-06-28 10:02:42	Dagmar	...and you're still at the mercy of the same organization that thought it was a good idea to throw you to the wolves.
2021-06-28 10:02:51	Eryn_FL	indeed
2021-06-28 10:03:04	Eryn_FL	im gonna do Rocky if boss is not in love with Oracle...
2021-06-28 10:03:15	Eryn_FL	maybe i can break the relationship up
2021-06-28 10:03:30	kfrench	Dagmar: To be fair, if you choose something like Rocky, you're still at the mercy of RedHat.  Rocky, and the like, have a goal to be identical to RHELx.  It still flows from RedHat.
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2021-06-28 10:03:32	Dagmar	Oracle is the company who likes to up and decide people haven't been paying their licence fees
2021-06-28 10:03:42	<--	ElectronApps (~ElectronA@user/electronapps) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-28 10:03:47	Eryn_FL	yeah
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2021-06-28 10:04:02	Dagmar	kfrench: But yet there's at least a firebreak there of people who can say "No, that isn't something we're going to do"
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2021-06-28 10:04:29	Dagmar	...and at this point, I want that extra layer of potentially sane people.
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2021-06-28 10:04:58	kfrench	Then that defeats the primary goal of a distro like CentOS or Rocky.
2021-06-28 10:04:58	Dagmar	Asking folks to take what was targeted as a _stable_ platform and replace it with a rolling release was just beyond mad
2021-06-28 10:05:40	Dagmar	The purpose was always to have a stable platform, not to just scribble over "RHEL" with another name
2021-06-28 10:06:00	kfrench	Once you decide to not be as close as possible to RHEL, you might as well switch to another distro - something else that has a long lifecycle.
2021-06-28 10:06:06	Dagmar	Hardly
2021-06-28 10:06:34	Dagmar	Let's take that AD integration as an example
2021-06-28 10:06:39	Dagmar	It's kind of a s**tshow
2021-06-28 10:06:56	Dagmar	...but once you beat the crazy out of it, it's at least _your_ s**tshow and it works.
2021-06-28 10:07:08	Dagmar	But RHEL _keeps dorking with it_
2021-06-28 10:07:25	kfrench	Has CentOS chosen to undork it?
2021-06-28 10:07:52	Dagmar	At the present time, there are more than one perfectly normal events which can and do result in it modifying smb.conf in a way that breaks well, _samba_
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2021-06-28 10:09:15	kfrench	Has CentOS chosen to undork it?
2021-06-28 10:09:17	Eryn_FL	well my thinking is i used rocky so i can match what we have before on tier one edge of the network and upgrade the tier two systems in the interior to debian as i can
2021-06-28 10:09:41	Dagmar	It literally chnages the thing from using AD security to USER based security
2021-06-28 10:09:47	EdwardIII	Dagmar: you're not the Dag of the famous Dag's repository are you?
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2021-06-28 10:09:54	Dagmar	EdwardIII: No
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2021-06-28 10:10:25	Dagmar	Whether or not some other group misseed that change or not, I would rather prefer there be more eyes looking for that sort of thing
2021-06-28 10:10:49	Dagmar	...because RHEL's response to "You broke this at some point" was just silence.
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2021-06-28 10:11:39	Dagmar	They're got an "image" to maintain now and it shows
2021-06-28 10:12:05	kfrench	Dagmar: So you're saying that having something like CentOS gave RHEL a larger userbase and that userbase would see issues and report them back to CentOS (and presumably from there back to RedHat) and more issues would get fixed compared to if there were no CentOS at all?
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2021-06-28 10:17:16	Dagmar	kfrench: NOt necessarily, but it's one of the things that RHEL apparently didn't believe in
2021-06-28 10:17:50	Dagmar	I know I was unimpressed that RHEL's response to the AD/USER thing was to basically plug their ears and hum
2021-06-28 10:18:17	Dagmar	...and it was their docs that was the only reason I managed to get that garbage working with realm in the first place.
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2021-06-28 10:18:59	Dagmar	And it's not the bug so much that RHEL changed the way they were recommending people do AD integration
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2021-06-28 10:19:08	kfrench	Dagmar: Sure.  My question was how having CentOS helped in your example.  CentOS (or any similar distro) could have decided to fix it by deviating from RedHat, or they could have put more pressure on RedHat to fix it.  If neither of those things happened, then the only thing you get is awareness of an ongoing problem.
2021-06-28 10:19:15	Dagmar	The transition from winbindd to realm was all tehm
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2021-06-28 10:20:12	Dagmar	kfrench: So we kinda _need_ an independent third-party there.  Not an encouragement to drink more deeply because out office might grow to the point where it needs licencing
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2021-06-28 10:20:21	Dagmar	s/out/our/
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2021-06-28 10:21:19	Dagmar	Also, one of these companies is likely to understand that perhaps it's important for the information about whether or not a patch is security-relevant remain attached to the updates
2021-06-28 10:21:40	Dagmar	That's one of the things RHEL was keeping to themselves.
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2021-06-28 10:22:35	Dagmar	It's always a known if an updated RPM is security-relevant because it's literally in response to a CERT advisory, and that's information RHEL wouldn't allow in the CentOS repositories.
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2021-06-28 10:22:54	Dagmar	Making security issues a proprietary service is a big ol' f**k you in my eyes
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2021-06-28 10:23:50	node1	Hello, I would likes to know on what time system clock is getting updated ?
2021-06-28 10:23:53	Dagmar	If you want to test that, go ahead and set up a cron job or something that auto-installs security patches on test machines running CentOS.  Watch how nothing is ever, ever installed.
2021-06-28 10:24:04	Dagmar	node1: That depends on if you're running ntpd/chrony or not
2021-06-28 10:24:33	node1	Like there is file: /var/log/ntpstats/loopstats which has the clock offset details. I would like to know on what time a new data appears there? I guess it appears when there is updation in system clock.
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2021-06-28 10:24:52	node1	My question is  "On what time a new data `appears/Get append` into File:/var/log/ntpstats/loopstats" while running ntp
2021-06-28 10:25:10	Dagmar	What problem are you _actually_ trying to solve?
2021-06-28 10:25:33	node1	just collecting the stats into time series database.
2021-06-28 10:25:33	Dagmar	because that's a question you could answer just by monitoring the file for changes, and it's kind of silly
2021-06-28 10:25:39	kfrench	Dagmar: You're saying CentOS packages aren't marked as "security" related because RedHat isn't giving that info out when it releases its own updates?
2021-06-28 10:25:57	Dagmar	kfrench: No.  You don't need to try and repackage my statements.
2021-06-28 10:26:38	kfrench	Dagmar: Fair enough.  I'll just assume I know what you're saying.
2021-06-28 10:26:43	Dagmar	I said what I said and I'll say it again.  CentOS repositories don't get information about which updated packages are security related because RHEL thinks that information is part of a subscription service and not relevant to users of the "free" distribution.
2021-06-28 10:27:10	Dagmar	MOst everyone else considers stuff like that to be pretty relevant to everybody
2021-06-28 10:27:17	node1	Dagmar, Yes i have study it's pattern. And it not constant , sometime it appears in 3 seconds, and sometime 1 hours.
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2021-06-28 10:27:39	Dagmar	node1: If it were constant, network time synchronization code would be a lot simpler
2021-06-28 10:27:56	node1	I see..
2021-06-28 10:28:13	Dagmar	Unfortunately hardware clocks drift uniformly about as often as they remain mysteriously accurate
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2021-06-28 10:28:38	node1	What do you mean " mysteriously accurate " ?
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2021-06-28 10:29:16	node1	It remain accurate because of ntp
2021-06-28 10:29:20	Dagmar	At this point if the relatively cheap hardware clock in a PC managed to stay consistently precise over time despite load and temperature fluctuations, it would be a sign that you're living in a simulation
2021-06-28 10:29:52	Dagmar	NTP/chrony are _picky_.
2021-06-28 10:30:08	Dagmar	They'll adjust that clock down to nanoseconds if they can
2021-06-28 10:31:00	node1	Dagmar, So what would you suggest me if have to collect this data into `rrd` What could be it's schema? data type is GAUGE for sure, but on what interval i should collect it?
2021-06-28 10:31:18	node1	rrd= round robin database
2021-06-28 10:31:23	Dagmar	node1: I would suggest just scraping the logged output of ntpd and getting on with your life
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2021-06-28 10:31:41	Dagmar	Or simply query it directly every interval and log that
2021-06-28 10:32:07	Dagmar	What interval you use is _entirely_ up to you, and should be based on _what you need to know_
2021-06-28 10:32:31	Dagmar	We have some machines acting as timeclocks for employee timekeeping.
2021-06-28 10:32:43	Dagmar	They need to be accurate to within three minutes because six minute accounting
2021-06-28 10:32:50	node1	ok
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2021-06-28 10:33:29	Dagmar	I'm only polling the NTPd on those every five minutes, because not once have any of them gotten more than 10 seconds off without the NTPD crashing or vmware playing up
2021-06-28 10:34:03	node1	ok
2021-06-28 10:34:06	Dagmar	The 99th percentile case on it is less than three seconds off
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2021-06-28 10:34:34	Dagmar	The monitors are honestly more about making sure ntpd didn't fall over, get killed, or fail to start up again
2021-06-28 10:35:30	Dagmar	...and when vmware plays up the thing gets whole minutes off _fast_.
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2021-06-28 10:35:59	Dagmar	No one's time daemon can handle a virtualized machine just not getting clockcycles and not being told about stolen time
2021-06-28 10:36:22	Louier	Dagmar: without acting up snapshots is also a frequent cause for drift.
2021-06-28 10:36:38	Dagmar	Louier: Thankfully our environment ain't that fancy
2021-06-28 10:37:00	node1	So basically when system clock get drifted or get slow( in nano seconds ) The system clock get updated from pool. And that updatation is being logged at loopstat file, right?
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2021-06-28 10:37:15	Dagmar	Usually its' one or more databases running amok and sucking down all the IO
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2021-06-28 10:37:29	Dagmar	node1: That's not how it works
2021-06-28 10:37:39	Dagmar	There's one of your problems.
2021-06-28 10:37:54	node1	Then?
2021-06-28 10:38:01	Dagmar	NTPd is _always_ querying remote clocks to get a consensus about the time
2021-06-28 10:38:35	Dagmar	It then compares that against what teh system clock is doing and under normal circumstances updates the figure that the kernel uses to try and keep the system clock accurate
2021-06-28 10:39:01	Dagmar	It will almost never adjust the clock directly, becuase that freaks out badly-written software
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2021-06-28 10:39:44	Dagmar	You pretty much have to very firmly instruct it to change the clock or it'll take however long it needs to nudge even an hour's difference away
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2021-06-28 10:40:32	Dagmar	 You do not need to try to log ntpds internal machinations.
2021-06-28 10:41:09	Dagmar	That's about as useful as keeping a close eye on the the modulus of 10 of ethernet transmission statistica
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2021-06-28 10:43:05	node1	Yes i have eye on it.
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2021-06-28 10:43:50	Dagmar	Why not just collect random numbers and store them in an rrd.
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2021-06-28 10:43:55	Dagmar	That's much more productive
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2021-06-28 10:47:10	Dagmar	More simply put you're trying to log something that's only half of the picture and that half is useless trivia without the other half that you can't log because it can't be known.
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2021-06-28 10:47:41	Dagmar	Log the result (ntpd's confessions as to how far off the clock _might_ be), not part of the work it was doing to get there.
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2021-06-28 10:51:03	node1	ok
2021-06-28 10:51:29	node1	Yes i can't feed 100% accurate data into it. That's not possible.
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2021-06-28 10:51:45	node1	Somewhere it has relation with room temperature.
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2021-06-28 10:53:42	 *	node1 room temperature depends upon ( either coolent machine or geography of the area) 
2021-06-28 10:54:29	Dagmar	Well, you're never ever going to get a useable result doing what you're trying to do.
2021-06-28 10:54:40	Dagmar	No I will not repeat all those statements again.
2021-06-28 10:54:51	node1	I understood know
2021-06-28 10:54:57	node1	s/sknow/now
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2021-06-28 10:57:56	gimmemahlulz	I've recently gotten a rasberi pi running with pihole on an UPS. Been a really long time since i've used linux this much, it's been quite a bit of fun
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2021-06-28 10:59:04	gimmemahlulz	running a weechat session in tmux for this connection, and got all this stuff accesible remotely too.
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2021-06-28 11:01:02	gimmemahlulz	thought it's definetly got it's challanges. Had some fun networking issues crop up when i changed routers, only managed to fix it by changing the routers IP lol
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2021-06-28 11:09:24	autopsy	I have a NASA spaceship running Linux.
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2021-06-28 11:09:58	swarfega	far out!
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2021-06-28 11:10:27	autopsy	Its got a bad spot on the forward gyroscope.
2021-06-28 11:10:38	swarfega	so it steers left all the time?
2021-06-28 11:10:39	autopsy	Hoaw 2 fx?
2021-06-28 11:11:12	autopsy	It goes it goes.
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2021-06-28 11:11:35	akik	autopsy: people usually have real world issues, not imaginary
2021-06-28 11:11:37	autopsy	The Chinese let a rocket body fly through the atmosphere about a month ago.
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2021-06-28 11:12:03	autopsy	akik, the storeies I tell are real.
2021-06-28 11:12:29	akik	autopsy: can you share a picture of that spaceship?
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2021-06-28 11:13:25	autopsy	akik, it'll take me ten hours to upload the image its 4 GB.
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2021-06-28 11:14:26	akik	autopsy: you can resize the picture with gimp
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2021-06-28 11:14:52	autopsy	https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-rocket-falling-debris-long-march-5b/
2021-06-28 11:15:22	--	bazaar is now known as rez
2021-06-28 11:15:27	autopsy	Theres the article.
2021-06-28 11:15:37	autopsy	Wheres my pizza and my cat?
2021-06-28 11:15:43	--	rez is now known as reza
2021-06-28 11:15:52	 *	autopsy scarfs on cat tail and pizza body
2021-06-28 11:15:52	--	reza is now known as i
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2021-06-28 11:16:39	anon	test
2021-06-28 11:16:54	autopsy	Bash: no such command
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2021-06-28 11:17:21	akik	autopsy: which one is your's?
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2021-06-28 11:21:08	Dagmar	Do we perhaps believe that other countries all gracefully land their satellites in a cornfield perhaps?
2021-06-28 11:21:36	<--	randomuser (~randomuse@91.187.59.126) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 11:21:37	Dagmar	Pretty much every nation destructively de-orbits their equipment.
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2021-06-28 11:25:07	bparker	resizing an image with gimp? lol
2021-06-28 11:25:44	bparker	just use convert
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2021-06-28 11:26:35	koollman	Dagmar: they tend to plan trajectories, and give advance warnings
2021-06-28 11:26:44	koollman	Dagmar: there's a whole cooperative process for that
2021-06-28 11:26:54	akik	bparker: which part of my message was incorrect?
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2021-06-28 11:27:39	peetaur	yeah convert is great... but if it's xcf, using gimp is the ideal way (can also be scripted https://stackoverflow.com/questions/630405/converting-xcf-and-other-files-using-command-line-with-gimp ) ...or if you want to do more work like removing watermarks or whatever
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2021-06-28 11:34:58	xythrez	Well what goes up must come down
2021-06-28 11:35:21	koollman	except space probes
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2021-06-28 11:37:38	spine-o-saurus	oh ya what about roswell
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2021-06-28 11:41:53	Dagmar	They can't very well just send them off into the dark
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2021-06-28 11:42:18	Dagmar	Theyd' stand a good chance of coming back at a later date at a highly unpleasant speed and vector
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2021-06-28 11:45:39	koollman	Dagmar: that would make a nice scifi story. "year 5000, humanity finally thriving after a few apocalypses ... when it becomes the target of strange space-originated bombardments from an unknown source ... until they are traced back" :)
2021-06-28 11:46:03	autopsy	Dagmar, I'm just saying SpaceX has gone a long way in making orbital and back space rocketrty.
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2021-06-28 11:46:35	Dagmar	koollman: I like it when occasionally some senator suggests they use large magnets to try to round up the debris that's up there
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2021-06-28 11:46:57	Dagmar	That's what space needs.  Floating magnetic mines.
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2021-06-28 11:47:21	koollman	Dagmar: they lack any sense of scale. Which is not too surprising
2021-06-28 11:47:23	autopsy	Throw in a Desert Eagle.
2021-06-28 11:47:36	koollman	working with incomprehensible numbers, like trillions, make you detached from reality ;)
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2021-06-28 11:47:59	autopsy	What would happen if you threw 500 lbs of Iodine and 300 lbs of red phosphrous in a black hole?
2021-06-28 11:48:03	peetaur	they are in stable orbit ... so use magnets so 0.02% of them get stuck on the magnet, safely moved to safety, and the other 99.98% gets destabilized into a less stable orbit = success (from a political viewpoint)!
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2021-06-28 11:48:36	Dagmar	peetaur: More like now you have a large magnetically attractive mass floating around up there.
2021-06-28 11:48:43	koollman	autopsy: I'm not sure the specific material makes much difference, beyond its mass/energy
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2021-06-28 11:49:01	Dagmar	...which may or may not eventually violently glom onto someone's perfectly innocent spacecraft and take it down with the lot.
2021-06-28 11:49:04	peetaur	Dagmar: if it was an elecro magnet, you can shut it off... hopefully you didn't magnetize the space junk too badly :)
2021-06-28 11:49:07	autopsy	It would be black ice.
2021-06-28 11:49:10	koollman	Dagmar: Katamari Damacy, space edition
2021-06-28 11:49:15	Dagmar	Yup
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2021-06-28 11:49:30	autopsy	koollman, barium strontium or titanium magnets.
2021-06-28 11:49:42	koollman	at least if the masses are large, they might be easier to track
2021-06-28 11:49:45	Dagmar	Folks always seemed to think that floating magnetic mines at sea were not a threat, but it turned out they're _really_ effective
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2021-06-28 11:51:13	Dagmar	Most spacecraft really aren't meant to handle much more than a small child whacking at them with with a TOnka hammer
2021-06-28 11:51:14	peetaur	what would be the best way to clean space junk? if you could track it precisely enough, I'd think a laser could redirect tiny particles into a collision course
2021-06-28 11:51:15	autopsy	And moving through space is like swimming in the water.
2021-06-28 11:51:30	koollman	autopsy: oh no, it's much worse
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2021-06-28 11:51:47	Dagmar	Because in space there's "nothing" and "things making high-caliber armor-piercing rounds look like rubber bullets" and very little in between
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2021-06-28 11:51:54	autopsy	Satellite 30GHz can see space debris.
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2021-06-28 11:52:21	Dagmar	So... a bunch of loose nuts and bolts traveling at almost any speed is a problem
2021-06-28 11:52:22	autopsy	Like a rubber bullet I'll be there.
2021-06-28 11:52:29	autopsy	I'll be there to comfort you..
2021-06-28 11:52:32	autopsy	I'll be..
2021-06-28 11:52:38	Dagmar	They're safer when spread out
2021-06-28 11:52:39	autopsy	Oh lord.
2021-06-28 11:53:00	autopsy	Can you imagine one hitting you in the face.
2021-06-28 11:53:04	Dagmar	Like if your friend throws one hard drive screw at you, it's nothing
2021-06-28 11:53:21	autopsy	Until its going 27,000 MPH
2021-06-28 11:53:26	Dagmar	If they take the entire ziplock full of leftover hard drive screws and throws it at you, that's a problem
2021-06-28 11:53:44	autopsy	I fear I know too much now.
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2021-06-28 11:53:59	Dagmar	It's a problem at even "IT nerd throwing arm" speeds
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2021-06-28 11:54:13	peetaur	probably shouldn't expose your face to the vacuum of space
2021-06-28 11:54:36	BCMM	the debris is absolutely not safer spread out
2021-06-28 11:54:37	koollman	Dagmar: I'm not sure they are safer. energy mostly comes from the speed, in this problem. Danger probability comes from cross-section
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2021-06-28 11:54:55	Dagmar	That's somewhat problematic when the only thing separating you from space is perhaps some tinfoil and less metal than is in a Toyota Tercel
2021-06-28 11:55:00	BCMM	basically, if *anything* hits a satellite at orbital velocity, it's game over
2021-06-28 11:55:04	koollman	Dagmar: much less likely to be hit by a small sphere than the equivalent material split into tiny spheres
2021-06-28 11:55:19	BCMM	doesn't matter if it's a tiny screw or a whole other satellite
2021-06-28 11:55:23	Dagmar	koollman: Until the lot is actually magnetized
2021-06-28 11:55:25	koollman	and the chances of tracking/avoiding increase if the sphere gets bigger
2021-06-28 11:55:45	koollman	Dagmar: that is unlikely to matter much. Pretty weak force
2021-06-28 11:55:45	peetaur	it is or isn't depending on things... if it's spread, there is no place that is perfectly safe...but if it's in one clump, that one space is way less safe even to heavily armored hulls. If that change puts you over the limit of the strength of your hull, then it's a relevant change.
2021-06-28 11:55:47	autopsy	But dodging shit aint possible in space.
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2021-06-28 11:56:18	BCMM	are we still talking about space junk, in the present day? if so, there's no "heavily armored hulls"
2021-06-28 11:56:22	Dagmar	koollman: Again, people thought magnetized mines at sea wouldn't be a real threat, but it turned out they were rather effective
2021-06-28 11:56:23	koollman	autopsy: it is. But only if you can plan the trajectory long enough before the problem happens
2021-06-28 11:56:29	autopsy	Not at orbital velocikty which is 24,700
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2021-06-28 11:56:37	koollman	Dagmar: different problem completely
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2021-06-28 11:56:52	autopsy	koollman, thrusters only operate a few feet per second.
2021-06-28 11:56:56	Dagmar	yes, in space there's far less friction to dampen the effects of the "weak force"
2021-06-28 11:57:04	Dagmar	Gravity, I'll remind, is also a "weak force"
2021-06-28 11:57:19	<--	node1 (~node1@user/node1) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 11:57:29	autopsy	Gravity while inevitably kill lyou.
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2021-06-28 11:58:01	raccoon_dog	It's the weakest force in intensity of the four fundamental interactions, but calling it a "weak force" is misleading -- because that's the name of one of the other fundamental interactions: the weak (nuclear) force/interaction.
2021-06-28 11:58:04	autopsy	BCMM, I was thinkiong what have you seen one like an armoed car?
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2021-06-28 11:58:12	Dagmar	If you were to take a whole box of Pizza Hut fridge magnets into earth-orbit and chuck them out the window, eventualyl the Russians would be ordering pizza
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2021-06-28 11:58:13	koollman	Dagmar: the mines were not dangerous because they used magnets to stick to stuff, but because they exploded using magnetic field sensors as a trigger
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2021-06-28 11:58:49	autopsy	Same goes for an asterioud.
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2021-06-28 11:59:10	autopsy	If its radio active it repels othe ralpha and beta decay particles right away.
2021-06-28 11:59:18	<--	riff-IRC (~riff-IRC@user/riff-irc) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 11:59:31	autopsy	If you put that into a vacuum and into a gravity well... itg contracts.
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2021-06-28 12:00:05	autopsy	So you see anything that will make Radio Frequency is likely bound by gravity of a black hole and energy always falls to a lower energy state.
2021-06-28 12:00:26	autopsy	So same goes with Xray Microwave and gamma.
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2021-06-28 12:01:49	autopsy	So all in all matter must make up some portion higher than the maxiumum pressures in the gravity well before being seen as left OVER energy that outshines anything.
2021-06-28 12:01:57	backleet	moo: you online?
2021-06-28 12:01:59	Helmholtz	Any --xpath gurus here?  How can I get dis1 and dis2 with single query: `xmllint a.xml --xpath 'string(//items/item[2]//dis1)'
2021-06-28 12:02:11	 *	Dagmar screams and runs away
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2021-06-28 12:03:12	backleet	ubuntu 20 hangs for 30 seconds every 5-10mins while working in 2GB + 2CPU VM, RAM ISSUE? swap is enabled too, doesn't seem like it runs out of memory
2021-06-28 12:03:36	autopsy	backleet, its a bug.
2021-06-28 12:03:40	Dagmar	Check the logs of your hypervisor
2021-06-28 12:04:00	curdlesnoot	rrr: enter !basename into the #bash channel. I would have said so there, only I'm not registered.
2021-06-28 12:04:15	backleet	autopsy: Dagmar I will, gonna try VirtualBox instead of qemu + virt-manager + libvirtd
2021-06-28 12:04:19	curdlesnoot	oh, somebody just did.
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2021-06-28 12:04:35	autopsy	VirtualBox is nice.
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2021-06-28 12:05:16	Dagmar	backleet: WEll, at least it will highlight a misconfiguration in your libvirtd setup if it does something different
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2021-06-28 12:05:50	autopsy	Thats much iks true.
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2021-06-28 12:06:55	backleet	Dagmar: true
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2021-06-28 12:11:19	backleet	I set up Sonarr + Jackett in VM and see indexers have the show I need at 0 peers seeding, what trackers work best for it? I tried eztv
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2021-06-28 12:11:55	slackadelic	backleet: This isn't the best place to be discussing a torrent client setup for that type of thing you are setting it up for :)
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2021-06-28 12:12:33	backleet	slackadelic: mybad will try their own channels
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2021-06-28 12:12:40	slackadelic	Thank you, we appreciate it :)
2021-06-28 12:12:52	slackadelic	backleet: but I can answer one question, find a private tracker.
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2021-06-28 12:13:58	backleet	slackadelic: thanks man, will give it a look!
2021-06-28 12:14:08	slackadelic	You're welcome.
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2021-06-28 12:15:02	Guest58_	ping <gecko>
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2021-06-28 12:15:46	tmpm697	hi, what is equipvalent of this bind bash to zsh? bind '"\C-d": "\C-x\C-t\C-x\C-d"'
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2021-06-28 12:17:27	backleet	tmpm697: you might have better luck understanding what it does and learn/search how to write it in zsh?
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2021-06-28 12:17:54	tmpm697	I'm googling in mean while but no luck so far.
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2021-06-28 12:20:21	akik	funny question without saying what that does
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2021-06-28 12:20:42	Dagmar	Using a lateral incision on the mouse, I'd think
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2021-06-28 12:30:13	gmcastil	is there a way to interrogate a particular dynamic library to see what it provides?
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2021-06-28 12:32:45	autopsy	gmcastil, readelf <binary> or <library>
2021-06-28 12:32:59	autopsy	ldd <binary>
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2021-06-28 12:34:32	curdlesnoot	gmcastil: nm -D is probably a good start
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2021-06-28 12:34:47	Kyv	gooogle.. no, dont look in bash manual or run bind -P or anything crazy like that.
2021-06-28 12:34:58	gmcastil	ldd tells me what a library depends on
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2021-06-28 12:35:16	gmcastil	Kyv, i wasnt sure what terms to google - i got a lot of irrelevant answers
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2021-06-28 12:35:45	curdlesnoot	different topic
2021-06-28 12:35:56	gmcastil	sorry, my mistake
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2021-06-28 12:36:28	gmcastil	autopsy, ldd goes the other direction - i've got two differnt libraries that (may) provide the same functionality and i want to diff the two
2021-06-28 12:36:36	gmcastil	autopsy, is there a more canonical way to do that?
2021-06-28 12:37:12	TJ-	gmcastil: you want to see its exported symbols presumably?
2021-06-28 12:37:54	gmcastil	TJ-, yeah, that.  I wasn't sure what the right way to frame the question was, thank you
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2021-06-28 12:39:09	gmcastil	curdlesnoot, TJ- i think nm is probably the tool i'm looking for - i didnt realize it existed, thanks
2021-06-28 12:39:43	TJ-	gmcastil: readelf --symbols or similar with objdump
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2021-06-28 12:42:11	akik	gmcastil: curdlesnoot mentioned nm. did you test it?
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2021-06-28 12:42:47	gmcastil	yep
2021-06-28 12:43:11	gmcastil	exploring the two together - I wasn't aware either existed
2021-06-28 12:43:40	curdlesnoot	I quite like nm, because it's also easy to filter
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2021-06-28 12:44:23	curdlesnoot	in particular, you're probably going to be interested in rows where the second field has a value of "T"
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2021-06-28 12:54:00	rud0lf	i'm not sure where to ask it... can you code a plugin for thunar, the xfce4 file browser, to show addtional tab in "File Properties"
2021-06-28 12:54:19	rud0lf	like frame size, framerate and duration of .mp4 clip?
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2021-06-28 12:54:34	rud0lf	for certain mime type
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2021-06-28 12:54:58	themachine	does thunar support "plugins"?
2021-06-28 12:55:06	themachine	or would you just have to patch the entire thing
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2021-06-28 12:56:08	rud0lf	i'm not sure how it's supplied myself
2021-06-28 12:56:16	rud0lf	i doubt it's just hard compiled into thunar
2021-06-28 12:56:21	uwharrie	there's also #xfce
2021-06-28 12:56:35	rud0lf	the problem is i wasn't sure what xfce is made of
2021-06-28 12:56:41	rud0lf	or what it means exactly
2021-06-28 12:57:09	themachine	well it sounds like you've got a lot of research to do ;)
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2021-06-28 12:58:37	rud0lf	yeah
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2021-06-28 12:59:17	themachine	a little script to do this on the cli would be relatively simple though <_<
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2021-06-28 12:59:44	rud0lf	sure
2021-06-28 12:59:49	rud0lf	or as thunar file command
2021-06-28 13:00:28	 *	themachine doesn't know anything about thunar or it's uses
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2021-06-28 13:12:47	BCMM	rud0lf: if there isn't a way to see it right in the file manager, right-click -> open with MediaInfo is probably the quickest way to get that information
2021-06-28 13:13:07	BCMM	(`mediainfo-gui` is the command name, and a common package name)
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2021-06-28 13:22:30	-->	Sherin (~Sherin@184.22.66.254) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 13:22:32	Sherin	There is war between Libera/Freenode. Don't suffer come to irc freenode chat <== new network for only chat.
2021-06-28 13:22:32	Sherin	Come fast register your channel, first come, first serve basis.
2021-06-28 13:22:41	-->	jarthur_ (~jarthur@2603-8080-1540-002d-bc1c-de87-81b2-e6e2.res6.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 13:23:06	akik	Sherin: the chat is here on libera now
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2021-06-28 13:23:53	ananke	Sherin: peddle that crap elsewhere
2021-06-28 13:23:56	themachine	Sherin: What war?
2021-06-28 13:24:03	themachine	who is freenode?
2021-06-28 13:25:54	firepup	go away advertisers, and there is no stupid war, just arguments.
2021-06-28 13:26:00	rud0lf	BCMM: thank you, sorry i was busy
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2021-06-28 13:32:23	autopsy	BCMM, he was like "are we talkin about armored space rockets"
2021-06-28 13:32:32	autopsy	I said wtf.
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2021-06-28 13:32:58	autopsy	Ya'll is craaaazy.
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2021-06-28 13:33:59	hodapp	are*
2021-06-28 13:34:10	clemens3	there is no war, as freenode got stolen and we let the kit play with it alone while everyone went to libera
2021-06-28 13:34:14	autopsy	Ya reckon???
2021-06-28 13:34:29	autopsy	Eeverybody now.
2021-06-28 13:34:40	autopsy	Preach that chorus.
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2021-06-28 13:35:03	autopsy	Shalom, duti mens a toult ritenserita
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2021-06-28 13:41:32	Helmholtz1	why output of bat can not be shown on watch?
2021-06-28 13:42:07	akik	baseball bat?
2021-06-28 13:42:09	jim	could you explain in more detail?
2021-06-28 13:42:14	xythrez	I think our boy might be lonely with his one person irc server up there.
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2021-06-28 13:43:21	akik	about 26k clients connected on freenode
2021-06-28 13:44:34	Dagmar	Probably a third of them are bots people haven't gotten around to turning off
2021-06-28 13:44:58	node1	akik, I guess everyone flew from freenode
2021-06-28 13:45:04	TJ-	one wonders how they'll go on if they're A.I. trying to learn natural language phrases from each other :)
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2021-06-28 13:46:39	Frank	Hi
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2021-06-28 13:47:10	firepup	hi
2021-06-28 13:47:32	<--	metah4ck1 (~meta@user/metah4ck3r) has quit (Client Quit)
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2021-06-28 13:47:53	Frank	It's long time ago - i'd been using IRC (20 years or so :))
2021-06-28 13:48:20	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-28 13:48:42	Frank	May i ask a question (linux, of course)?
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2021-06-28 13:49:47	themachine	well you just asked a question though it wasn't about linux
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2021-06-28 13:50:34	Frank	;-) Does anybody know, if there is an option to have a timestamp in gcore/core file for multi-threaded process - to use as reference for thread activity (and their timers)?
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2021-06-28 13:50:43	Frank	A system timestamp
2021-06-28 13:50:54	Frank	like systick counter in embedded
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2021-06-28 13:52:07	Frank	i mean exact time of generation of gcore/core in e.g. millisecond resolution?
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2021-06-28 13:55:21	autopsy	Frank, the wamdoodle fits on the timers noodle and soon its a mute baboon.
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2021-06-28 13:56:06	autopsy	Hes like "This chat is WHACK"
2021-06-28 13:57:27	Shaun	Helmholtz1: you can use bat with watch, but bat defaults to --plain when its output isn't a terminal.  you'll have to mess with --style, --decorations etc to force it
2021-06-28 13:57:27	Helmholtz1	jim, akik the cat replacement (sharkdp/bat)
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2021-06-28 13:58:34	drip	frank: I'm pretty sure theres no timestamp stored in core dumps, short of a variable in the thread/process itself
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2021-06-28 13:58:54	Helmholtz1	Shaun, :|
2021-06-28 13:59:48	Shaun	it's a sensible default.  almost every other time you pipe the output, you don't want it littered with ansi codes
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2021-06-28 14:01:16	Frank	@drip: no system section in gcore, that holds such information? I need to add a dedicated task and maintain a reference timer on my own?
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2021-06-28 14:01:52	Frank	@drip: i thought it's a general issue, already solved somehow. But i just don't know where to look such up.
2021-06-28 14:02:24	Dagmar	The timestamp on the core dump is as close as you're going to get.
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2021-06-28 14:03:18	Frank	@Dagmar: you mean to use for core file name generation? But i thought it's in seconds at max
2021-06-28 14:03:38	Dagmar	*eyeroll*
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2021-06-28 14:04:28	Dagmar	Point stat at the core dump.
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2021-06-28 14:05:17	curdlesnoot	besides which, some filesystems even store birth times nowadays.
2021-06-28 14:05:49	curdlesnoot	if your distribution is sufficiently modern, stat(1) might even show it.
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2021-06-28 14:08:38	akik	bat man page
2021-06-28 14:08:49	tusko	do anybody see this
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2021-06-28 14:08:56	akik	tusko: no
2021-06-28 14:09:00	tusko	bummer dude
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2021-06-28 14:15:01	Frank	curdlesnoot: i can see 'stat' prints
2021-06-28 14:15:01	Frank	Access: 2021-06-28 20:09:23.173613309 +0200
2021-06-28 14:15:01	Frank	Modify: 2021-06-28 20:09:17.209559887 +0200
2021-06-28 14:15:01	Frank	Change: 2021-06-28 20:09:17.209559887 +0200
2021-06-28 14:15:01	Frank	But how to get this _within_ gdb for evaluating with e.g python scripts?
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2021-06-28 14:21:09	Frank	@Dagmar: now i get your point. Same about 'stat'. But core file generation will take it's time. So this is no option. I need exact time of start of core file creation.
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2021-06-28 14:21:46	Frank	I was just wondering, if some of the meta data from the /proc fs are included in gcore/core file.
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2021-06-28 14:26:50	ntwk	Does anyone happen to know how I might limit the CPU clock speed of a virtual machine under QEMU?
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2021-06-28 14:28:16	ntwk	I'm running MS-DOS as the guest and it will just run the CPU at 100% which spins up my system's fan.
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2021-06-28 14:29:00	node1	Any timeseries database related channel anyone knows?
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2021-06-28 14:30:26	curdlesnoot	ntwk: well, there are TSRs for MS-DOS that allow for it support cpuidle. have you tried those before doing anything else?
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2021-06-28 14:31:49	curdlesnoot	ntwk: this one, for example: https://archive.org/details/dosidle
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2021-06-28 14:32:24	ntwk	curdlesnoot: I came across IDLE.COM that appears to have been shipped as part of "Microsoft Virtual PC addons for DOS" circa 2004.
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2021-06-28 14:32:50	curdlesnoot	ok. well, I've used dosidle before and it worked well.
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2021-06-28 14:32:59	ntwk	But out of curiosity, do you know of a way to do it from outside the guest?
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2021-06-28 14:33:18	curdlesnoot	cgroup controllers. systemd-nspawn would probably be the easiest way.
2021-06-28 14:33:25	curdlesnoot	there's a cpu limiting resource controller.
2021-06-28 14:33:26	donofrio	what switches would I use for "sar" to pull stats from a service from friday afternoon?
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2021-06-28 14:33:42	ntwk	Thanks a bunch, I'll do some research.
2021-06-28 14:33:56	Friithian	I am looking for software to ingest dmarc reports received by postfix, any suggestions?
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2021-06-28 14:36:25	pconst	Hello World
2021-06-28 14:36:34	-->	knull (~knull@host-92-7-34-43.as13285.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 14:36:40	pconst	an yea
2021-06-28 14:36:43	pconst	I said Hello World
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2021-06-28 14:36:45	pconst	believe me
2021-06-28 14:36:51	pconst	OK ?
2021-06-28 14:36:54	pconst	ok
2021-06-28 14:37:05	knull	ok
2021-06-28 14:37:40	curdlesnoot	ntwk: also, consider using something that's more focused on emulating period-accurate hardware, such as PCem. whether that would benefit you depends on exactly what you are doing, but it is exceptionally good at what it does.
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2021-06-28 14:40:13	ntwk	curdlesnoot: It's mostly for learning DOS development.  I figured QEMU running actual MS-DOS would give me the most accurate experience but I don't really know much.  I'm definitely open to other possibilities.
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2021-06-28 14:40:55	ntwk	I think I recall looking at PCem a few years ago.  I think at the time, the Linux port of PCem was considered experimental.  Have you used it recently?
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2021-06-28 14:41:50	curdlesnoot	ntwk: not for about a year now.
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2021-06-28 14:43:03	curdlesnoot	qemu is probably ok if that's all you need. the default pc type emulates relevant hardware.
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2021-06-28 14:44:05	curdlesnoot	still, without leveraging HLT on the side of MS-DOS, or capping qemu itself, it will be tortuous - as you have seen.
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2021-06-28 14:44:54	ntwk	Not quite torturous, it's only running on one core.  But it winds things up unnecessarily.
2021-06-28 14:45:19	curdlesnoot	have you tried freedos? my memory if fuzzy on this point, but I don't think it has this problem.
2021-06-28 14:45:26	ntwk	I'd be quite happy running it at 1/10 my current clock speed.
2021-06-28 14:45:37	curdlesnoot	I might be mixing it up with the enhanced opendos kernel that I was tinkering with at the time, though.
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2021-06-28 14:46:11	ntwk	I just came across someone mentioning that newer versions of freedos leverage the HLT instruction.
2021-06-28 14:46:34	ntwk	I haven't actually tried freedos but I may give it a go.
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2021-06-28 14:47:17	ntwk	The whole thing got me curious about pegging the emulated system at a specific clock speed.
2021-06-28 14:47:31	ntwk	So far, nice/renice doesn't seem to help much here.
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2021-06-28 14:49:17	curdlesnoot	again, cgroups.
2021-06-28 14:49:45	curdlesnoot	if you have systemd, look for the CPUQuota thing that you can use with systemd-nspawn.
2021-06-28 14:49:55	ntwk	Got the systemd-nspawn man page open as we speak.
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2021-06-28 14:52:56	curdlesnoot	ntwk: I think it's systemd-nspawn --property=CPUQuota=10% or something along those lines.
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2021-06-28 14:53:04	anon	Have you tried PCem? It lets you configure era-correct computer specs
2021-06-28 14:53:09	curdlesnoot	there's some other man page that explains this property.
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2021-06-28 14:53:22	curdlesnoot	anon: yeah, I brought that up too.
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2021-06-28 14:55:35	ntwk	anon: not in a long while and the project was kind of new at the time.  It's probably worth another look.
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2021-06-28 14:56:09	drip	would dosbox work for that?
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2021-06-28 14:56:48	drip	lets you set the clock speed and adjust it while running
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2021-06-28 14:57:48	curdlesnoot	yeah, dosbox does work in that fashion.
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2021-06-28 15:02:59	ntwk	I've been sometimes working in Dosbox, although as I understand it, it doesn't really strive to be a full reimplementation of DOS.
2021-06-28 15:03:28	ntwk	I remember coming across some unimplemented stuff.
2021-06-28 15:04:04	curdlesnoot	it's not particularly accurate either. dosbox-x is a bit better.
2021-06-28 15:04:05	ntwk	It's all about making old games work.
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2021-06-28 15:04:31	ntwk	I'd forgotten about dosbox-x.  I remember hearing about it but I didn't give it a go.  It's been a while since I've played with this stuff.
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2021-06-28 15:24:32	RedNifre	Is there a simple way to copy a directory into itself, but with a denylist of what not to copy?
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2021-06-28 15:25:07	rob`	RedNifre: rsync -a --exclude maybe
2021-06-28 15:25:17	RedNifre	Say I have a directory that contains a build directory and I want to copy the directory into the build directory, excluding the build directory and some other files.
2021-06-28 15:25:18	koollman	RedNifre: hm. so, remove a bunch of stuff ?
2021-06-28 15:25:37	koollman	yeah, rsync could do that
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2021-06-28 15:25:47	RedNifre	Well, the problem with removing after copying might be that you get an infinite copy loop if you copy a directory into itself?
2021-06-28 15:26:13	koollman	rsync -a --exclude=build/ --exclude=otherdir/ ./ build/
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2021-06-28 15:26:27	koollman	copy everything but build and otherdir into build
2021-06-28 15:26:43	RedNifre	Okay, I'll look into rsync then. Is it guaranteed to be already installed on most distros, or should I add installing it to the build instructions?
2021-06-28 15:26:50	RedNifre	thanks, I'll try that.
2021-06-28 15:27:01	curdlesnoot	it isn't, no. better to specify it as a requirement, if in doubt.
2021-06-28 15:27:20	rob`	yeah, it'll 99% likely be available from your package repo tho
2021-06-28 15:27:27	rob`	apt install rsync or whatever
2021-06-28 15:27:36	akik	RedNifre: and remember rsync behaves differently if you have a leading / in the source dir or not
2021-06-28 15:27:42	-->	torus (uid489343@user/tusko) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:28:00	akik	oops not leading, the opposite
2021-06-28 15:28:01	<--	gabriele (~gabriele@user/gabriele) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-28 15:28:04	koollman	not leading, but as a suffix :)
2021-06-28 15:28:06	akik	trailing
2021-06-28 15:28:21	koollman	(which is why it is specified in my example)
2021-06-28 15:28:24	<--	ChristopherBurg (~Christoph@64.91.16.185) has quit (Quit: ChristopherBurg)
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2021-06-28 15:28:30	torus	I am running a Tor daemon locally and it is listening on port 9050, but for some reason when I point my irc client to it at 127.0.0.1:9050 it fails to see it
2021-06-28 15:29:11	RedNifre	Well, I guess I exclude a file as --exclude=otherfile then? Or does that look for a directory in a differently behaving way?
2021-06-28 15:29:43	akik	RedNifre: you don't need it for --exclude
2021-06-28 15:30:04	<--	shabius (~shabius@2a0e:1c80:2:1021::1000) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-06-28 15:30:06	RedNifre	?
2021-06-28 15:30:12	<--	PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-06-28 15:30:38	akik	if you want to exclude .snapshot -> --exclude=.snapshot
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2021-06-28 15:32:14	mdemo	Can a crontab define HOME or SHELL more than once?
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2021-06-28 15:33:33	curdlesnoot	mdemo: why would you? I'd assume that the last definition would win, but putting your implementation to the test would be advisable.
2021-06-28 15:34:10	<--	schillingklaus (~schilling@ip2504e07b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 15:34:23	koollman	mdemo: yes. they are read in order, so last value before a job line is used for that job
2021-06-28 15:34:31	koollman	but ... it's ugly
2021-06-28 15:34:37	mdemo	hrm
2021-06-28 15:34:44	akik	if it works, it works
2021-06-28 15:34:45	mdemo	crontab is already not very pretty
2021-06-28 15:34:50	koollman	especially those two variables, why would you need to define them at all ?
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2021-06-28 15:36:22	mdemo	I have a python script in a virtualenv that needs cwd set
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2021-06-28 15:36:45	mdemo	but I don't want to mess with existing entries that already work
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2021-06-28 15:37:31	koollman	mdemo: add a wrapper script defining those variables, maybe
2021-06-28 15:38:00	koollman	it will also work when ran out of cron
2021-06-28 15:38:10	koollman	and will avoid more confusion
2021-06-28 15:38:11	curdlesnoot	torus: point in what respect? does your IRC client support socks?
2021-06-28 15:38:18	--	Pacific_ is now known as arash
2021-06-28 15:38:53	torus	curdlesnoot: it does support Socks4 and Socks5. Usually I can put the settings for the proxy to 127.0.0.1 on port 9050 and it does its thing
2021-06-28 15:39:08	--	Ringtailed_Fox is now known as RingtailedFox
2021-06-28 15:39:14	torus	today it tells me Looking up 127.0.0.1 Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it?
2021-06-28 15:39:22	curdlesnoot	what the heck.
2021-06-28 15:39:42	-->	ruben (~ruben@2a02:a03f:6513:5e00:a813:2e33:d31f:1d78) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:40:03	torus	its weird man
2021-06-28 15:40:26	torus	like why on earth would it be trying to lookup 127.0.0.1
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2021-06-28 15:41:33	curdlesnoot	torus: have you grafted your hexchat configs in from somewhere else?
2021-06-28 15:41:35	-->	mattf (~matheus@179-189-87-110.goldnettelecom.com.br) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:41:46	torus	Nah, I just configured it through the client
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2021-06-28 15:45:36	gnux	sup
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2021-06-28 15:46:27	curdlesnoot	torus: that beats me. it sounds like a bug. how about "localhost"?
2021-06-28 15:46:40	<--	floatargen (~borbetoma@168.91.196.249) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 15:46:45	torus	curdlesnoot: I ran
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2021-06-28 15:46:50	torus	$ netcat -zv 127.0.0.1 9050
2021-06-28 15:46:50	torus	localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] 9050 (versiera) open
2021-06-28 15:47:03	torus	I think Tor is there and listening. I'll try localhost
2021-06-28 15:47:10	curdlesnoot	I mean, if you specify localhost as the proxy name to hexchat.
2021-06-28 15:47:14	-->	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 15:47:37	torus	still unknown host
2021-06-28 15:47:41	curdlesnoot	::1 would be another potential option to try.
2021-06-28 15:48:03	<--	Kevlar_Noir (~alex@2a01:e0a:5d7:e1e0::b018:6779) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-28 15:49:18	rud0lf	about the detailed video media tab for file properties in Thunar, xfce4 file browser, i've found thunarx-python, a python bridge to write thunar extensions, if anyone was interested :)
2021-06-28 15:49:55	curdlesnoot	rud0lf: that is somewhat interesting. thanks.
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2021-06-28 15:50:40	curdlesnoot	torus: also, does "getent hosts localhost" even work?
2021-06-28 15:50:48	-->	rifl (~user@user/rifl) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:51:23	torus	$ getent hosts localhost
2021-06-28 15:51:23	torus	::1             localhost.localdomain localhost
2021-06-28 15:51:31	<--	xx (~xx@user/xx) has quit (Quit: xx)
2021-06-28 15:51:43	curdlesnoot	so the name service switch seems fine.
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2021-06-28 15:52:28	curdlesnoot	I'd suggest raising it with the hexchat maintainer. it really doesn't make any sense.
2021-06-28 15:52:33	-->	amahl (~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:52:33	blackgatonegro	Hello People
2021-06-28 15:52:59	blackgatonegro	Let me guess hexchat can't enter libera?
2021-06-28 15:53:08	-->	useful_idiot0 (~useful_id@154.3.40.22) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:53:11	-->	Gustavo6046 (~Gustavo60@user/gustavo6046) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 15:53:12	curdlesnoot	no.
2021-06-28 15:53:18	<--	useful_idiot (~useful_id@154.3.40.21) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-28 15:53:28	curdlesnoot	rather, socks proxy hostname resolution shenagians.
2021-06-28 15:53:33	curdlesnoot	shenanigans*
2021-06-28 15:53:38	blackgatonegro	Ah because someone was saying that the other day
2021-06-28 15:54:00	blackgatonegro	Use pidgin, still works at least.
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2021-06-28 15:54:38	gnux	hey
2021-06-28 15:54:43	Friithian	use pidgin? what year is it?
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2021-06-28 15:55:12	DPA	With a network manager (wicd or network-manager are both fine), is there some way to configure them,
2021-06-28 15:55:12	DPA	such that I have a bridge, which contains my wlan interface, and I would like the network manager to configure the ip and stuff on the bridge after connecting to the wifi, rather than the wlan interface?
2021-06-28 15:55:31	blackgatonegro	Weĺl, the thing still gets updated. Is Just.... Basically useless for anything not irc
2021-06-28 15:56:10	<--	LuksNuke (~LuksNuke@94.242.245.63) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 15:56:31	jim	gnux, hi
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2021-06-28 15:57:01	gnux	hey jim
2021-06-28 15:57:05	gnux	ltns
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2021-06-28 15:58:54	jim	gnux, what's up?
2021-06-28 15:59:03	blackgatonegro	Hello
2021-06-28 15:59:05	j0hn	jim: hello
2021-06-28 15:59:12	rud0lf	/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 README '/usr/local/share/doc/thunarx-python'
2021-06-28 15:59:19	jim	hi :)
2021-06-28 15:59:32	rud0lf	how do i read doc file located in .../doc/ directory? is there linux command for it? man?
2021-06-28 15:59:42	rascul	cat
2021-06-28 15:59:44	rud0lf	or do i just browse there and open in `less` or similar
2021-06-28 15:59:45	rud0lf	ah
2021-06-28 15:59:46	rud0lf	okay
2021-06-28 15:59:50	rascul	or less
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2021-06-28 16:00:33	jim	no, man doesn't read the stuff put in /usr/share/doc (but in that dir, there's a dir for each package)
2021-06-28 16:00:53	jim	(assuming debian or deriv)
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2021-06-28 16:03:05	caterfxo	Hi
2021-06-28 16:03:09	j0hn	hi
2021-06-28 16:03:18	-->	arash (~arash@5.124.30.120) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 16:03:33	rascul	high
2021-06-28 16:03:36	<--	tusko (~yeurt@user/tusko) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-28 16:04:53	 *	hodapp realizes he has reinvented xargs multiple times, badly
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2021-06-28 16:05:06	rascul	just use xargs
2021-06-28 16:05:09	<--	Helmholtz1 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has left #linux (Leaving)
2021-06-28 16:05:14	hodapp	well I know that NOW
2021-06-28 16:05:25	-->	thiras (~thiras@user/thiras) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 16:05:29	rascul	i could have told you that earlier
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2021-06-28 16:07:49	gknux	hey jim
2021-06-28 16:07:55	DPA	I just noticed I can't add the wlan interface on my main laptop to a bridge!?! macvtap and macvlan don't work either, neither are aliases possible. What else could I try to get networking working in a network namespace, what options do I have left?
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2021-06-28 16:08:35	rascul	wlan interaces don't bridge normally, but there's some weird hacky way to do it that i don't know
2021-06-28 16:08:52	j0hn	DPA:  are you try restart NetworkManager service?
2021-06-28 16:08:55	rascul	a nat can maybe be used though
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2021-06-28 16:09:23	blackgatonegro	Eh... What WiFi doesn't work?
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2021-06-28 16:10:58	PaulFertser	DPA: client wireless interfaces can't be bridged as they lack the necessary data
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2021-06-28 16:11:23	PaulFertser	DPA: however, if you're using proper mac80211-based drivers on both sides of the link you can enable 4addr mode (on both sides) and then you can bridge as normal.
2021-06-28 16:11:40	<--	mmmnnn (~mmmnnn@185.207.166.75) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-28 16:12:40	PaulFertser	DPA: so assuming you're using OpenWrt or other proper distro on your AP you should be able to enable "option wds 1" there (it's called "wds" in hostapd config, it really means 4addr, not the same thing different vendors mean by WDS) you should be able to just bridge it.
2021-06-28 16:13:56	-->	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 16:14:09	PaulFertser	And if you're not, then get a routed subnet from the upstream router (DHCPv6-PD provides it automatically).
2021-06-28 16:14:18	<--	omero_o1 (~omero@user/omero) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 16:14:49	DPA	blackgatonegro: WiFi does work, but I neet to share it with some container / vms.
2021-06-28 16:14:49	DPA	PaulFertser: It works fine on my rpi and on my server with an atheros card. Although there, I use it as an AP, while here, I use it as a client.
2021-06-28 16:14:49	DPA	rascul: I'll look into the nat thing. Can I have a different default gateway for that than for other stuff? I've a transparent proxy in my network for various things.
2021-06-28 16:15:08	BCMM	see https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections#Bridging_with_a_wireless_NIC for why it often doesn't work
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2021-06-28 16:15:12	hassoon	'evening
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2021-06-28 16:15:15	PaulFertser	DPA: AP wireless interfaces can be bridged without any tricks, yes.
2021-06-28 16:15:30	PaulFertser	DPA: I suggest you do NOT look into NAT thing.
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2021-06-28 16:15:36	rascul	nat is nasty
2021-06-28 16:15:36	blackgatonegro	DPA and those don't run in the same hardware?
2021-06-28 16:15:47	rascul	don't nat if you don't have to
2021-06-28 16:16:04	rascul	do the stuff PaulFertser said before looking into nat
2021-06-28 16:16:05	PaulFertser	DPA: since you control the upstream AP just enable 4addr mode. If that's not an option, route a subnet statically or with DHCPv6-PD.
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2021-06-28 16:16:55	blackgatonegro	Vms can get Internet access is just... That's also a way for the Internet malware to get into your vm.
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2021-06-28 16:17:43	rascul	the internet is malware
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2021-06-28 16:17:56	blackgatonegro	Yup
2021-06-28 16:18:06	blackgatonegro	And porn.
2021-06-28 16:18:16	rascul	i just finished downloading the internet though :(
2021-06-28 16:18:17	<--	ruben (~ruben@2a02:a03f:6513:5e00:a813:2e33:d31f:1d78) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-28 16:18:26	Pazooza	Porn is ok, internet is malware.
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2021-06-28 16:18:47	Sauvin	But Internet is porn!
2021-06-28 16:18:47	-->	luca0N (~luca0N@nautilus.luca0n.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 16:18:57	Pazooza	Porn was the first profitable business on the internet.
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2021-06-28 16:19:09	Pazooza	Probably be the last.
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2021-06-28 16:19:38	PaulFertser	Is there any practical reason to not use OpenWrt on APs? Not many people are real fans of running Cisco or other expensive proprietary equipment in non-office environments, right?
2021-06-28 16:19:45	blackgatonegro	No the Internet... is FOR porn:
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2021-06-28 16:19:49	Pazooza	Look at all the sex toys you can get on Amazon.
2021-06-28 16:19:50	blackgatonegro	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBDCq6Q8k2E
2021-06-28 16:20:41	DPA	blackgatonegro: well, my "vm/container" is actually more like just my host machine, but with some configs overlayed to make it trust my own ssl proxy. (https://pastebin.com/9KBUFFTF)
2021-06-28 16:20:41	DPA	The idea is, I start any program in that "container", it's intercepted, but if I don't, it's connecting normally.
2021-06-28 16:21:04	blackgatonegro	Ah well.
2021-06-28 16:21:15	tusko	PaulFertser, because pfsense exists in this world
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2021-06-28 16:24:03	DPA	O, wow, "iw dev wlan0 set 4addr on", and now I can indeed add it. What does this do?
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2021-06-28 16:25:36	PaulFertser	DPA: for bridging you need 4 MAC addresses in every frame header. For whatever reason standard wifi has just 3. This is a non-standard extension (supported by mac80211, so all Linux softmac drivers) to pass the fourth as well and to be able to automatically create AP/VLAN interfaces on the AP side when that's used.
2021-06-28 16:26:45	RedNifre	koollman: hang on, why do you need a slash at the end of --exclude? The way I interpret the man page, that would exclude the content of that directory, but not the directory itself?
2021-06-28 16:26:47	PaulFertser	Regarding pfsense, hm, what APs does it run on? I wonder what wireless card tusko is using that's supported by that.
2021-06-28 16:27:58	koollman	RedNifre: oh, right, habits. either way would work, and yes, that would be the difference, copying an empty dir, or no dir at all
2021-06-28 16:28:21	koollman	I suppose for 'build' specifically you would not want slash at the end
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2021-06-28 16:28:41	blackgatonegro	Use the cable luke, use the cable!
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2021-06-28 16:29:24	mattf	Firefox 89 is not setting the urgency hint when i open a new link from an external application. I did open a link from an external application without focusing FF during this test:  http://ix.io/3rp3.  however if i do `wmctrl -x -r firefox -b add,demands_attention` it works
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2021-06-28 16:29:32	RedNifre	right, I wouldn't want an extra empty build dir in my build dir.
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2021-06-28 16:34:07	DPA	But it seams to make problems with some wlan APs. I'll look into NAT after all...
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2021-06-28 16:44:13	RedNifre	Thanks, the rsync part worked perfectly.
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2021-06-28 16:44:20	matsaman	good ole rsync
2021-06-28 16:44:58	RedNifre	(I'm doing some sort of nerd joke, where I turn a 20 year old code thing into a git repository)
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2021-06-28 16:45:48	RedNifre	So, I now have a build.sh that "builds" the software. I haven't used makefiles yet, but is it easy to add one as a joke as well? One that just runs build.sh, no matter which files were changed or anything?
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2021-06-28 16:46:14	RedNifre	Maybe `all: ; ./bash.sh` or something like that?
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2021-06-28 16:51:01	phogg	RedNifre: simple makefiles are easy. You can learn enough in 10 minutes of googling.
2021-06-28 16:51:16	RedNifre	Apparently not "make: Nothing to be done for 'all'.". Hmmmmm... I guess my goal of "run it, no matter if any files changed" is in direct opposition to the purpose of make
2021-06-28 16:52:16	geirha	nah, just add ".PHONY: all", and don't forget to use tabs for indentation
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2021-06-28 16:52:35	RedNifre	ah, never mind
2021-06-28 16:52:40	RedNifre	made a silly mistake, it works now.
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2021-06-28 16:53:24	drip	sounds like you edited a makefile
2021-06-28 16:53:29	RedNifre	What's ".PHONY: all"? I currently have "all:\n\t./build.sh" and that seems to work.
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2021-06-28 16:53:52	geirha	says that "all" isn't a target file
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2021-06-28 16:54:36	RedNifre	I thought "all" was already some build in make keyword for the default target that gets executed when you run make without parameters?
2021-06-28 16:55:09	phogg	in this case you should just be able to name your target 'default'
2021-06-28 16:55:50	geirha	if you create a file named "all", it will say "'all' is up to date" and not run it
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2021-06-28 16:56:13	geirha	unless you add it as .PHONY
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2021-06-28 16:57:30	phogg	I assume the dir is mostly empty, since this seems like a joke scenario
2021-06-28 16:58:07	geirha	"all" is not special, it's just a convention. When you run "make" with no arguments, it just runs whatever the first target in the Makefile is, so a common convetion is to make the first target in the makefile an "all" target that "builds all"
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2021-06-28 17:03:48	RedNifre	It's not mostly empty, it's a big folder full of code, .bmp, .wav etc. because it's something from an old Windows game (It's the Settlerclonk from Clonk Planet) and building it normally means zipping the whole folder with a special tool, but since I turned it into a git repo I now have a .git folder that I need to exclude when "building" it.
2021-06-28 17:04:12	RedNifre	So, there is no special word for a first target that will never match a file? Or is 'default' a special case?
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2021-06-28 17:05:26	Gustavo6046	the ping to router is stupid
2021-06-28 17:05:26	Gustavo6046	and it is depressing
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2021-06-28 17:06:28	RedNifre	Hm, looks like there isn't, so I'll go with .PHONY: all then, thanks.
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2021-06-28 17:06:42	Gustavo6046	my network card is a broadcom bcm4313
2021-06-28 17:06:42	Gustavo6046	wifi
2021-06-28 17:06:42	Gustavo6046	and it's a 2.4ghz only card
2021-06-28 17:06:42	Gustavo6046	anyway i seriously worry that it is a hardware fault
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2021-06-28 17:12:36	RedNifre	And I now have a git repo with the first commit being 4 years older than git itself, full of Windows files, that you can build with make. My work for today is done!
2021-06-28 17:12:53	RedNifre	Thanks everyone for your help :)
2021-06-28 17:13:28	matsaman	gj
2021-06-28 17:13:35	rob`	hahah, that'll happen. I pull files from a qmail repo that's probably older than some people here
2021-06-28 17:13:49	moo	microsoft has their DOS sources in github too ;)
2021-06-28 17:14:01	matsaman	"their" =P
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2021-06-28 17:14:40	moo	oh no but no commit history to speak of
2021-06-28 17:14:57	moo	i like how they still accept some pull requests tho
2021-06-28 17:15:02	kurahaupo_	RedNifre: Just wait 'til you're building a git repo with commits timestamps that are negative epoch-seconds
2021-06-28 17:15:23	RedNifre	I wasn't alive in negative epoch, so I don't have any code from that time :D
2021-06-28 17:15:30	RedNifre	Did microsoft fake their dates, too?
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2021-06-28 17:15:49	RedNifre	I changed my system clock when creating the repo, so the first commit is from 2001
2021-06-28 17:15:50	moo	they just git add . ; git commit "lol enjoy"
2021-06-28 17:15:54	moo	-m
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2021-06-28 17:16:15	kurahaupo_	RedNifre: git commit --date=…
2021-06-28 17:16:51	RedNifre	yeah, I know, but that was a bit complicated. Running it on an offline raspberry pi with the system clock changed seemed like the more reliable approach.
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2021-06-28 17:17:55	RedNifre	I was worried that things like git init might pull the date at some point and put it somewhere, so using an offline pi with the clock changed felt like the most save "container" like approach.
2021-06-28 17:17:56	kurahaupo_	date -z -s '00:00 29 Feb 1964'
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2021-06-28 17:18:21	moo	just wait for 2038 :D
2021-06-28 17:18:25	moo	it will be fun
2021-06-28 17:18:42	RedNifre	The world will end, just like it did in 2000
2021-06-28 17:18:44	-->	cdrp (~chandrade@user/chandradeepdey) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 17:18:56	kurahaupo_	RedNifre: to be fair, there are several pairs of user+date associated with each commit
2021-06-28 17:18:57	moo	we'll have negative time again
2021-06-28 17:19:02	<--	`deb (~relax@142.169.78.237) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 17:19:21	kurahaupo_	moo: I hope to be retired by then
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2021-06-28 17:19:40	moo	tbh i hate programming and sysadmin shit by now. started woodworking lol
2021-06-28 17:19:46	moo	i wish i could live off that
2021-06-28 17:20:09	DLange	there's customers for everything, moo
2021-06-28 17:20:29	DLange	woodwork something other people want to have (=buy from you)
2021-06-28 17:20:34	moo	not good enough yet, for now i'm giving random tables to family XD
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2021-06-28 17:20:45	trilobite	hard to get as much money with woodworking as with computers though
2021-06-28 17:20:51	moo	and started building a deck in backyard
2021-06-28 17:20:52	trilobite	and money is nice to have
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2021-06-28 17:20:57	moo	its so much fun compared
2021-06-28 17:21:31	moo	i am burned out maybe
2021-06-28 17:21:51	DLange	once the tables don't wobble any more ... make some for $$ :o)
2021-06-28 17:21:53	<--	tesseract (~tesseract@user/tesseract) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 17:21:55	moo	also we're all just shoveling digital shit around, its never  important
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2021-06-28 17:22:15	RedNifre	Can you woodwork a Game Boy shaped case for a Raspberry Pi that also fits a battery and display? The wooden buttons should work.
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2021-06-28 17:22:26	trilobite	My job is utter bullshit and provide a value of almost 0 to the world
2021-06-28 17:22:32	moo	what will be left after us, random shell session in random VPS and maybe some commits in repo no one cares about?
2021-06-28 17:22:33	trilobite	I enjoy my coworkers though
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2021-06-28 17:22:39	moo	exactly
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2021-06-28 17:22:52	moo	i should've listen to mum and become a doctor or smh xD
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2021-06-28 17:23:12	Gustavo6046	Sorry
2021-06-28 17:23:14	Gustavo6046	Here is some iwmon output https://termbin.com/eyzw anything abnormal?
2021-06-28 17:23:22	Gustavo6046	I also FINALLY got around to running a firewall, in this case ufw
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2021-06-28 17:23:54	Gustavo6046	Can open listen sockets affect network performance?
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2021-06-28 17:27:01	magicSchlingel	Is there a script that creates a netplan-yaml file based on the currently running configuration?
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2021-06-28 17:28:27	sumthing1980	where do I register for libera chat couldnt find it
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2021-06-28 17:28:44	moo	/ns help register
2021-06-28 17:28:56	sumthing1980	nvm
2021-06-28 17:28:57	sumthing1980	ok thanks
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2021-06-28 17:34:21	Gustavo6046	;-;
2021-06-28 17:34:26	Gustavo6046	i stopped systemd-resolved in hopes that it'd help
2021-06-28 17:34:29	Gustavo6046	i have literally nothing actively using the network other than irc, tinc, and wireguard/bird, and a few servers running very idly
2021-06-28 17:34:33	Gustavo6046	and i already use ufw now
2021-06-28 17:34:34	Gustavo6046	and i now only have pihole running between here and quad9, no resolved caching
2021-06-28 17:34:41	Gustavo6046	in case resolved was spazzing
2021-06-28 17:34:42	Gustavo6046	(it probably was)
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2021-06-28 17:35:13	Gustavo6046	ugh
2021-06-28 17:35:22	Gustavo6046	the network is still stupid and ping to 192.168.0.1 is still inadmissibly stupid, with 80% packet loss
2021-06-28 17:35:31	Gustavo6046	and hundreds if not thousands of ms
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2021-06-28 17:36:14	Gustavo6046	all I did was open discord
2021-06-28 17:36:29	Gustavo6046	the wifi connection to the router is extremely unstable and I hate how even the slighest load can screw with it so easily
2021-06-28 17:36:34	Gustavo6046	this is a bcm4313 card btw, 2.4ghz only
2021-06-28 17:36:41	Gustavo6046	but the signal is strong
2021-06-28 17:37:00	Gustavo6046	so it can't be interference
2021-06-28 17:37:04	Gustavo6046	not even usb since i move the cables as further away from the laptop screen frame as i can
2021-06-28 17:37:15	xythrez	Add a .PHONY: all and the above should work
2021-06-28 17:37:55	Gustavo6046	it's either the driver spazzing, or most likely some software spazzing
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2021-06-28 17:38:27	magicSchlingel	@Gustavo6046: I had a similar behavior when there was a DOS attack running against my SIA server....
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2021-06-28 17:39:11	Gustavo6046	btw i'm on manjaro linux, on linux version 5.13.0-1
2021-06-28 17:39:11	Gustavo6046	neofetch https://termbin.com/2c24
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2021-06-28 17:40:16	Gustavo6046	magicSchlingel: it is pretty possibly a DoS
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2021-06-28 17:40:33	Gustavo6046	it might even be some very serious routing issue because I am on two tinc networks and wireguard+bird (for dn42)
2021-06-28 17:40:39	TJ-	Gustavo6046: even with a strong signal it can be caused by interference. The 2.4GHz band is 'unlicenced' and any device, not just WiFi, can use it, and other devices often don't use WiFi modulation so can knock out the entire band
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2021-06-28 17:41:16	Gustavo6046	TJ-: the only thing next to my laptop is my phone and I set it on airplane mode precisely to see if I could rule it out
2021-06-28 17:41:19	Gustavo6046	and indeed, I ruled it out
2021-06-28 17:41:33	rascul	did you use a ruler?
2021-06-28 17:41:52	Gustavo6046	my bedroom is right aside the living room, although sure, separated by a wall, and the door actually goes to a corridor that runs a little bit along the living room and then has a door to it
2021-06-28 17:41:56	TJ-	Gustavo6046: that's not what I mean - baby monitors, wireless cameras, microwave ovens, and other devices, all could be using the same frequencies
2021-06-28 17:42:07	Gustavo6046	true
2021-06-28 17:42:13	Gustavo6046	there is a phone somewhat near the router
2021-06-28 17:42:18	Gustavo6046	but my device is the only one that has those issues
2021-06-28 17:42:34	rascul	can you move the antenna?
2021-06-28 17:42:35	Gustavo6046	the router has a strong output and it's really hard to believe that it is interference that is causing this
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2021-06-28 17:42:50	rascul	also, what are the walls made of?
2021-06-28 17:42:53	TJ-	Gustavo6046: also peer-2-peer devices like *cast can be using it
2021-06-28 17:43:05	Gustavo6046	stopping tinc seems to curiously reduce the issue
2021-06-28 17:43:11	Gustavo6046	or maybe not
2021-06-28 17:43:18	Gustavo6046	yeah it isn't quite tinc
2021-06-28 17:43:39	TJ-	Gustavo6046: monitor the AP to see what packets it is putting out on the air
2021-06-28 17:44:10	TJ-	Gustavo6046: if it isn't putting much out then it isn't your wifi network at fault, unless you've a stray device
2021-06-28 17:44:25	Gustavo6046	ip route show https://termbin.com/v4zw
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2021-06-28 17:44:40	Gustavo6046	ip rule show https://termbin.com/iwzc
2021-06-28 17:44:45	Gustavo6046	I guess we can 'rule' out ip rule
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2021-06-28 17:46:42	TJ-	Gustavo6046: have you used iftop or tcpdump on the PC's wifi interface to see how much traffic there is arriving?
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2021-06-28 17:56:06	Gustavo6046	ugh
2021-06-28 17:56:08	Gustavo6046	how is it reset "by peer"
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2021-06-28 17:56:44	Gustavo6046	eh
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2021-06-28 18:05:52	Gaffoonie	Well that time ping timeout got ya, so progress? :)
2021-06-28 18:06:07	torus	I think that's what's happening everytime
2021-06-28 18:06:16	torus	I must be timing out for some reason
2021-06-28 18:06:30	Gustavo6046	here's some asciidump https://asciinema.org/a/KgPSgMzn8uxARCN7TvA7c8VUV
2021-06-28 18:06:31	Gustavo6046	of tcpdump
2021-06-28 18:06:32	Gustavo6046	I mean
2021-06-28 18:06:34	Gustavo6046	asciinema
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2021-06-28 18:09:04	Gustavo6046	heh
2021-06-28 18:09:07	Gustavo6046	also, can the upstream from the router to the isp's CGNAT affect ping to the router itself (to 192.168.0.1)?
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2021-06-28 18:10:21	Gustavo6046	TJ-: so it's very little traffic I suppose
2021-06-28 18:10:42	Gustavo6046	what is 239.255.255.250.1900 ?
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2021-06-28 18:11:49	Dagmar	So the keyword I've been looking for for the past hour is seriously "DUNNO"??
2021-06-28 18:11:53	Dagmar	geeez
2021-06-28 18:12:05	Gustavo6046	hm?
2021-06-28 18:12:06	ndorf	Gustavo6046: 239.255.255.250.1900 is SSDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Service_Discovery_Protocol
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2021-06-28 18:12:53	Dagmar	CGNAT isn't magic.  It's just a way to say "expensive NAT because marketing just got involved"
2021-06-28 18:13:00	Gustavo6046	Also
2021-06-28 18:13:05	Gustavo6046	this is the iw station dump
2021-06-28 18:13:19	Gustavo6046	ugh come on termbin
2021-06-28 18:14:10	Dagmar	If you fire up an mDNS browser you'll see some stuff
2021-06-28 18:14:44	Dagmar	You are basically seeing mDNS and uPnP traffic
2021-06-28 18:15:05	Gustavo6046	Dagmar: it's actually the opposite of magic, it's poo, and it makes it impossible for me to have services show publicly in the internet and is just an extra stupid hop to every (v4) packet, among other things
2021-06-28 18:15:09	Gustavo6046	and ah o
2021-06-28 18:15:10	Gustavo6046	ah ok*
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2021-06-28 18:15:19	Dagmar	Well, that's normal for being behind a NAT gateway
2021-06-28 18:15:27	Dagmar	Even "CG"NAT
2021-06-28 18:15:27	Gustavo6046	it's a double NAT
2021-06-28 18:15:30	Gustavo6046	that's what a CGNAT is
2021-06-28 18:15:33	Gustavo6046	a double NAT
2021-06-28 18:15:43	Dagmar	Yeah you're not exposing those services for incoming connections without port forwarding
2021-06-28 18:15:54	Gustavo6046	the inner side is here at home, the outer side is at some random ISP-owned datacenter
2021-06-28 18:16:06	Gustavo6046	and south american infrastructure can suck my stale toes
2021-06-28 18:16:16	Gustavo6046	Dagmar: silly, you can't port forward in a CGNAT
2021-06-28 18:16:16	Gustavo6046	the outer NAT is ISP owned
2021-06-28 18:16:20	Gustavo6046	and I don't think it is the culprit here
2021-06-28 18:16:27	Dagmar	Gustavo6046: No literally it just means it's a big setup
2021-06-28 18:16:31	Gustavo6046	it's an issue on MY end, on MY device, not even a router issue
2021-06-28 18:16:39	Gustavo6046	CGNAT = double NAT
2021-06-28 18:16:48	Gustavo6046	I thinik
2021-06-28 18:17:09	Dagmar	UNless it's 1:1 NAT (which is just hella unlikely with almost everyone calling themselves a "carrier") it has the same restrictions
2021-06-28 18:17:32	Dagmar	There's no direct mapping of the outer address to the inner address that doesn't involve a port
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2021-06-28 18:18:27	Dagmar	The only thing you can assume about CGNAT is that 1) it's a big deployemnt and 2) it's expensive because it involves a lot of hardware
2021-06-28 18:18:27	Gustavo6046	It's either a layer 1, 2, 3 or 4 issue
2021-06-28 18:18:37	Gustavo6046	It's not DNS, it's probably not routing or tinc or anything like that
2021-06-28 18:18:48	Dagmar	Let me guess... you're trying to get connections from the internet to reach your cell phone
2021-06-28 18:19:01	Gustavo6046	it's not a phone, it's a laptop
2021-06-28 18:19:10	Gustavo6046	I don't even know what you are talking about
2021-06-28 18:19:16	Dagmar	Just the same, it's not gonna happen
2021-06-28 18:19:24	Gustavo6046	I just mean the ISP is double-natting
2021-06-28 18:19:30	Gustavo6046	which is what I meant by CGNAT
2021-06-28 18:19:37	Gustavo6046	it's the very definition of CGNAT that I, and I assume most people,use
2021-06-28 18:19:42	Dagmar	Unless it's a 1:1 NAT you _must_ have support from the carrier
2021-06-28 18:19:48	tusko	hello?
2021-06-28 18:19:56	Dagmar	If by "people" you mean "marketing"
2021-06-28 18:19:58	Gustavo6046	We only get dynamic addresse
2021-06-28 18:20:05	Gustavo6046	Heck, even our ipv6 address is dynamically addressed
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2021-06-28 18:20:33	Dagmar	The problem is no different than if you are at home with a cablemodem and you have a half dozen laptops going through a linux gateway doing IP masquerading (which is DNAT)
2021-06-28 18:20:34	Gustavo6046	Well, sure, but everyone calls a double nat a CGNAT, and that isn't even relevant to my issues at all with the stupid latency and pingtime to router.
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2021-06-28 18:21:03	kfrench	I thought you solved that by turning off your laptop cooler
2021-06-28 18:21:12	Gustavo6046	kfrench: lol, I thought I did
2021-06-28 18:21:16	Dagmar	Your best bet will be to establish a VPN connection to some outside host and tunnel the ports in through there
2021-06-28 18:21:27	Gustavo6046	just like I thought I "finally did it" when I switched to iwd, or when I switched to brcmsmac
2021-06-28 18:21:37	Gustavo6046	The thing is, my network fluctuates a shit ton
2021-06-28 18:21:47	Gustavo6046	and by that I mean the ping time to the router does
2021-06-28 18:21:51	Gustavo6046	It is bipolar
2021-06-28 18:21:51	Dagmar	Gustavo6046: Multiple layers of NAT has existed long before IP over cell phones
2021-06-28 18:21:56	Gustavo6046	it goes from 20ms mode to 2000ms mode
2021-06-28 18:22:12	 *	rascul swats at the nat
2021-06-28 18:22:18	Dagmar	Yeah that could be due to QoS or it could just be due to some crazy routing spraying packets down different pipes from moment to moment
2021-06-28 18:22:19	 *	kfrench ducks!
2021-06-28 18:22:25	Gustavo6046	Uh
2021-06-28 18:22:28	Gustavo6046	What do cellphones have to do here?
2021-06-28 18:22:28	Gustavo6046	The only phone I have next to me is on airplane mode and I rarely if ever use it anyway
2021-06-28 18:22:38	Gustavo6046	I just got it, a while after my previous one became inoperable
2021-06-28 18:22:40	Dagmar	TYpically "double NAT" is what you have to use when you have NAT happening on _both_ sides of the border
2021-06-28 18:23:09	Dagmar	Like, at one point I had to deal with a couple of medical offices and BOTH the damn places had made up the following netblock: "127.127.0.0/24"
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2021-06-28 18:23:30	Dagmar	THey were literally both improperly using localnet addresses on their office LANs
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2021-06-28 18:23:40	rascul	that sounds like fun
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2021-06-28 18:23:53	Dagmar	So... I had to do a 1:1 NAT mapping in _both_ directions.
2021-06-28 18:24:02	kfrench	Dagmar: Did I ever tell you about the time one of my folks created 2 netware trees with the same name?  Intentionally?
2021-06-28 18:24:09	Dagmar	kfrench: Hahahahaha
2021-06-28 18:24:29	kfrench	Yes, hilarity insued...for a couple of years until we fixed the glitch
2021-06-28 18:24:59	Gustavo6046	Dagmar: literally prodding termbin seems to screw with all my IRC connections
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2021-06-28 18:25:52	Dagmar	Seriously tho I was tryign to figure out how to get postfix to route _one_ sender address normally, and the rest to go through our egress filtering provider
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2021-06-28 18:26:06	Dagmar	I am stunned the name of the token to make that happen isn't "default" or anything.  It's literally "DUNNO"
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2021-06-28 18:26:39	Dagmar	I was down to trying random things that _might_ work when I finally foudn the docs for it
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2021-06-28 18:26:49	kfrench	"passthru" might have been appropriate there too
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2021-06-28 18:27:12	Dagmar	I probably would have tried it if I'd gotten desperate
2021-06-28 18:27:15	kfrench	The "dunno" is a "I don't want to make a decision, so just pass it on to the next guy"
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2021-06-28 18:27:30	Dagmar	I had even tried faking it and using 'smtp:' with no address like in transport maps
2021-06-28 18:27:39	neshpion	i mean why not just make it "IDKMYBFFJILL"
2021-06-28 18:27:46	Dagmar	http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#sender_dependent_relayhost_maps
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2021-06-28 18:28:23	kfrench	Dagmar: Yep.  I'm no postfix expert, but I've used it.
2021-06-28 18:28:26	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-06-28 18:28:31	Dagmar	I really figured if they were going to use a token with a special meaning, it would be 'DEFAULT'.  The semantics on 'DUNNO' are a bit unusual to say the least
2021-06-28 18:28:44	neshpion	not international friendly
2021-06-28 18:28:57	Dagmar	Well, in their defense, very few people would be needing this
2021-06-28 18:28:58	kfrench	I think the ":<nothing>" means "default"
2021-06-28 18:29:13	Dagmar	kfrench: Been there, tried that, it failed
2021-06-28 18:29:17	Dagmar	heh
2021-06-28 18:29:29	mlu	ah, postfix: memory lane :)
2021-06-28 18:29:49	Dagmar	I have notifications mails going out from a bogus address, and our egress filtering provider is aware of what constitutes valid source addresses (which this is not)
2021-06-28 18:29:54	 *	mlu hopes to never need to run a mailserver again
2021-06-28 18:29:54	hassoon	<3 https://i.imgur.com/ItWNGYA.png
2021-06-28 18:30:08	<--	qlixed (~qlixed@152.170.36.244) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 18:30:22	Dagmar	mlu: Thankfully this one is no longer accepting mail from anywhere anymore
2021-06-28 18:30:36	mlu	that's a plus
2021-06-28 18:30:39	Dagmar	...or at least it _won't_ be after I get the outgoing flow working 100% properly.
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2021-06-28 18:33:17	kfrench	Needing source based email routing isn't too terribly uncommon in the face of things like SPF.  Sometimes you just need to send out email through the "blessed" relay, of which you might have more than one - each with different blessings.
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2021-06-28 18:35:38	jiffe	there a bash command line way of comparing version numbers without sort -V ?
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2021-06-28 18:36:16	matsaman	comparing version numbers
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2021-06-28 18:36:50	kfrench	It's my understanding that one shouldn't consider "version numbers" as numerical data.  They should be compared as strings.
2021-06-28 18:37:22	jiffe	a string compare alone with fail
2021-06-28 18:37:41	kfrench	That's a comparison though.  It's not used for "sorting" order.  "version numbers" are more free form, so the correct sorting order is dependent on that specific package.
2021-06-28 18:38:10	matsaman	you'd have to assume a versioning scheme at least
2021-06-28 18:38:13	jiffe	in my case I can always assume major.minor.rev numerical values
2021-06-28 18:38:17	matsaman	at which point it'd be pretty straightforward
2021-06-28 18:38:30	matsaman	so is major greater than major? Minor than minor? Rev than rev?
2021-06-28 18:38:31	matsaman	done
2021-06-28 18:38:43	jiffe	I was looking for a single command to do this
2021-06-28 18:38:52	Dagmar	If you want to do that, the "rough-outline" way to go about it is to break the version number up into an array, and then pad each element with up to three digits, then stick them all together (padding to however many numbers is the maximum you have, like 1.12.101.3.12)
2021-06-28 18:38:59	matsaman	why use a single command when you can use three single commands
2021-06-28 18:39:01	kfrench	If yours are #.#.#, then you need to split each piece up and compare them directly.  Otherwise 1.2 will be greater than 1.10.
2021-06-28 18:39:15	Dagmar	THere's no "single command" that's going to be able to really do that without it becoming a bloody nightmare
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2021-06-28 18:39:48	Dagmar	But if you turn 1.12.101.3.12 into 001012101003012 THEN it becomes a tractable thing you can compare as integers
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2021-06-28 18:40:28	kfrench	Dagmar: Indeed.  Same goes if you leave them dotted with 0 prefixes - to make them sort alphabetically.
2021-06-28 18:41:03	Dagmar	kfrench: Well, I wrote a function to "solve" this problem with all of the version numbers used by Slackware packages about a decade ago
2021-06-28 18:41:19	Dagmar	I did also include some complex stuff to deal with letters as well
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2021-06-28 18:41:24	Dagmar	THe entire function was about 28 lines long.
2021-06-28 18:41:33	Dagmar	So... there's no one-line solution to that
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2021-06-28 18:41:53	kfrench	Or one 28-line solution that covers all types of version styles.
2021-06-28 18:42:16	Dagmar	Sort has a -V option that MAY be acceptable for very specific subsets of version numbers
2021-06-28 18:42:25	jiffe	sort -V would have made this fairly simple :(
2021-06-28 18:42:33	matsaman	so use sort
2021-06-28 18:42:38	matsaman	pipes are the tits
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2021-06-28 18:42:51	Dagmar	Whether or not sort -V will do what you want with 1.2.3.4 versus 1.2.0 and 1.2.5 is something you should _test_
2021-06-28 18:42:55	matsaman	you won't find a single installation worth using in this world that hasn't 'sort'
2021-06-28 18:43:05	jiffe	my initial stipulation was that I couldn't use sort -V because the -V option isn't always available
2021-06-28 18:43:07	kfrench	jiffe: Maybe some combination of -k and -n?  It may work for your specific format.
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2021-06-28 18:43:21	matsaman	jiffe: fail on irregular 'sort'
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2021-06-28 18:43:30	Dagmar	jiffe: Sort should be everywhere, adn some platforms aren't worth working aroudn the shortcomings of
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2021-06-28 18:45:14	jiffe	Dagmar: sort is available, -V is not
2021-06-28 18:45:38	jiffe	I think I can use -n and -k here, it just works a little differently
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2021-06-28 18:46:35	matsaman	sort -V || echo 'haha BSD!'
2021-06-28 18:46:58	jiffe	my rhel7 doesn't have -V
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2021-06-28 18:47:47	kfrench	My rhel7 does.  coreutils-8.22-24.el7_9.2.x86_64
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2021-06-28 18:47:52	matsaman	7 for 7 years old?
2021-06-28 18:48:04	matsaman	that's an interesting naming scheme
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2021-06-28 18:48:37	jiffe	oh wow nm, this one is rhel5
2021-06-28 18:48:42	matsaman	hahahah
2021-06-28 18:48:50	kfrench	You might have bigger problems than sort.
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2021-06-28 18:49:06	jiffe	jesus, this company thinks all updates except security are the devil
2021-06-28 18:49:27	kfrench	jiffe: That would be fine except that v5 doesn't even get sec updates anymore.
2021-06-28 18:50:08	kfrench	Maybe they need to be told that EOL is the same as SOL.
2021-06-28 18:50:09	jiffe	this particular machine is a dev machine but likely matches what is in production so that's neat
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2021-06-28 18:52:46	dfg	i have an digital audio mixer/interface with wifi/ethernet but the wifi is pretty shit, so i bring a router instead. i recently learned that on windows i can directly connect the two devices via ethernet and no router and control the mixer with the software, but not on linux.. am i missing some service (dhcp or something?) that makes that work? or any other ideas maybe?
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2021-06-28 18:57:33	leonardus	Is an OS with a real time kernel the same thing as a real time OS?
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2021-06-28 18:59:15	mlu	leonardus: no
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2021-06-28 18:59:31	mlu	leonardus: a real time kernel allows real time OS type tasks, but the entire OS isn't necessary a real time OS
2021-06-28 19:00:03	mlu	leonardus: still a very useful architecture though in the sense that you can have the non-realtime parts communicate with the realtime parts
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2021-06-28 19:00:35	leonardus	I'm trying to understand what exactly a real time kernel is
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2021-06-28 19:01:47	mlu	leonardus: these things get hard to define
2021-06-28 19:01:52	mlu	leondardus: I suggest you start playing around with one
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2021-06-28 19:02:05	leonardus	From what I'm reading an RTOS is an OS that completes tasks in a fixed amount of time but I thought that was a famous computer science problem
2021-06-28 19:02:35	matsaman	https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_is_real-time.3F
2021-06-28 19:02:37	leonardus	mlu: I'm playing around with one a bit, but was just trying to understand what exactly I'm dealing with
2021-06-28 19:02:41	uwharrie	s/completes/tries to &/
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2021-06-28 19:03:40	mlu	leonardus: tasks can have deadlines
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2021-06-28 19:04:12	mlu	that's the shrot version of it: you can guarantee how long certain processes will take before you run them, and you can have guarantees about when they'll finish running
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2021-06-28 19:04:22	mlu	those are useful for controlling brakes, etc.
2021-06-28 19:04:42	mlu	in a normal OS, you have a scheduler and tasks can freeze up, take an indeterminate amount of time to finsih, etc.
2021-06-28 19:04:53	matsaman	like GNU timeout? =)
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2021-06-28 19:05:35	mlu	leonardus: one example of a RTOS is one that runs on my laser printer: it has to time the toner and paper feed just right to produce a result
2021-06-28 19:05:48	leonardus	Aircraft also run RTOSs right?
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2021-06-28 19:06:39	matsaman	aircraft don't require software at all, but I know what you mean
2021-06-28 19:07:16	autopsy	Ok so I have two 4 GB sticks of PC2-6400 RAM and I'm wanting to put it in a ASUS M3N78-VM board where do I put the sticks in order to read both of them poroperly by the POST?
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2021-06-28 19:07:40	matsaman	autopsy: where they go
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2021-06-28 19:08:14	autopsy	matsaman, so far I put both in the front two slots clostests the CPU and then only 1 4 GB stick registers in POST.
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2021-06-28 19:08:45	Dagmar	autopsy: That _should_ have been right
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2021-06-28 19:08:53	Dagmar	Swap the two sticks, see if that continues
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2021-06-28 19:09:19	Dagmar	See also the manual at https://www.asus.com/supportonly/m3n78vm/HelpDesk_Manual/
2021-06-28 19:09:25	Dagmar	I actually have one of those boards tho and I remember
2021-06-28 19:09:47	matsaman	the manual seems to have them ordered like: 1 3 2 4
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2021-06-28 19:09:59	matsaman	even though they're colored like: 1 2 3 4
2021-06-28 19:10:04	Dagmar	Well, yes, the two yellow sockets are on different buses
2021-06-28 19:10:18	Dagmar	Thery're marked A1 and B1 on the board
2021-06-28 19:10:38	Dagmar	If both aren't showing up then one isn't seated properly, or one is dead, or the board is damaged
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2021-06-28 19:12:30	autopsy	1 of them shows up the other one doesn't.
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2021-06-28 19:12:43	autopsy	POST registers 3900 MB of RAM not 8192.
2021-06-28 19:12:46	matsaman	and then there's the dreaded question: how much maximum RAM does my stupid board even allow
2021-06-28 19:12:52	matsaman	but with four slots I'm guessing you're okay =P
2021-06-28 19:12:53	autopsy	8 GB
2021-06-28 19:13:03	Dagmar	Oh it supports decent sticks
2021-06-28 19:13:05	autopsy	Its DDR2.
2021-06-28 19:13:15	autopsy	Dagmar, you have this board?
2021-06-28 19:13:25	Dagmar	Yeah that was what I was using for my MythTV box for awhile
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2021-06-28 19:13:49	Dagmar	I literally grabbed the manual out of a stack on a shelf behind me and was like "wtf how often does this happen"
2021-06-28 19:13:53	Dagmar	heh
2021-06-28 19:14:32	autopsy	Well what does tha t manual say?
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2021-06-28 19:14:39	autopsy	About two 4 GB sticks?
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2021-06-28 19:16:01	Dagmar	THe manual doesn't say anytihng about supporting 4Gb sticks
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2021-06-28 19:17:32	Dagmar	From lookign around on the web, it looks like you're capped at a max of 2Gb per stick on that one
2021-06-28 19:17:42	Dagmar	I know mine was capped out at 8Gb
2021-06-28 19:18:04	Dagmar	...mainly because I used two sticks from something else I was taking out of service at the time
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2021-06-28 19:19:36	autopsy	Looking at the manual 1066 MHz sticks are 2GB a pice.
2021-06-28 19:19:41	autopsy	I have PC2-6400
2021-06-28 19:19:57	autopsy	So why does one stick work?
2021-06-28 19:20:03	autopsy	One 4GB stick?
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2021-06-28 19:20:09	autopsy	They have to both work..
2021-06-28 19:20:11	Dagmar	The number of address lines available
2021-06-28 19:20:18	autopsy	I read that.
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2021-06-28 19:21:18	Dagmar	That it's coming out to a weird number during POST should be considered a warning sign
2021-06-28 19:21:37	Dagmar	Look on the bright side... you should be able to find 2Gb DDR2 sticks for pretty cheap
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2021-06-28 19:22:15	Voxel	Hey all gorgeous People ^^
2021-06-28 19:22:25	Dagmar	Yeah a quick look at Newegg seems to indicate you can max the board out at 8Gb for like $25
2021-06-28 19:22:29	Voxel	KDE Neon FRW <3
2021-06-28 19:22:34	Voxel	FTW*
2021-06-28 19:22:37	Dagmar	Not a _terrible_ amount of RAM
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2021-06-28 19:24:21	Sauvin	That would be "for the win", not "ftw".
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2021-06-28 19:24:40	 *	kfrench is glad Sauvin didn't make him explain SOL.
2021-06-28 19:24:43	Voxel	Sauvin?
2021-06-28 19:25:20	Sauvin	SQL would be "SQL", actually.
2021-06-28 19:25:21	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.8.1) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-28 19:25:29	Voxel	SOL != SQL
2021-06-28 19:25:33	kfrench	My O has no tail
2021-06-28 19:25:37	Dagmar	It's bad enough it counts as an epithet by itself
2021-06-28 19:25:56	Voxel	Sauvin SOL would be "SQL", actually
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2021-06-28 19:26:04	Sauvin	Some of the alternatives I've seen are pretty damned baroque.
2021-06-28 19:26:04	<--	Nimzowitsch (~nimzo@user/nimzowitsch) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 19:26:23	Voxel	Sauvin, I mean... do you have problems out there or something?
2021-06-28 19:26:26	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 19:26:26	Dagmar	Sanity-Questioning Language
2021-06-28 19:26:32	Sauvin	Oh, I misread? Yeah, that would be "stuff out of luck", not "SOL".
2021-06-28 19:26:43	kfrench	Sauvin: that's the one
2021-06-28 19:26:47	Sauvin	Yeah, I thought that O was a Q.
2021-06-28 19:27:04	Voxel	You might also want to check out https://www.dictionary.com/e/acronym-vs-abbreviation
2021-06-28 19:27:07	Voxel	And ##English
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2021-06-28 19:27:26	Sauvin	Voxel, in your own turn, have a look at the /topic.
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2021-06-28 19:28:01	Voxel	Sauvin the topic doesn't prohibit me using abbreviations
2021-06-28 19:28:06	--	rifl` is now known as rifl
2021-06-28 19:28:07	Voxel	What the hell are you talking about?
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2021-06-28 19:28:18	Voxel	It's #linux
2021-06-28 19:28:22	Voxel	Not ##English
2021-06-28 19:28:28	Voxel	Relax out there
2021-06-28 19:28:34	Sauvin	Understand it, drop it, and move on.
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2021-06-28 19:28:45	Voxel	What the heck? Filtered.
2021-06-28 19:28:57	neshpion	Voxel: "No SMS (u, thx, etc.)"
2021-06-28 19:29:03	<--	ralinux (~saje@37.156.190.205) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-28 19:29:16	jim	Voxel, this is rule discussions... please take it to #linux-ops for those, or just drop it
2021-06-28 19:29:32	-->	rifl` (~user@user/rifl) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 19:29:32	Sauvin	Don't "filter" the ops.
2021-06-28 19:29:54	Voxel	I'm sorry for saying a word, dear gentlemen,
2021-06-28 19:30:00	jim	he can do that if he wants... it just means he won't see it coming :)
2021-06-28 19:30:14	Voxel	Why are you sure I'm he?
2021-06-28 19:30:26	jim	are you sure you're a he/
2021-06-28 19:30:27	<--	wolflarson (~quassel@user/wolflarson) has quit (Quit: wolflarson)
2021-06-28 19:30:27	jim	?
2021-06-28 19:30:30	Voxel	Who told you I'm "he"?
2021-06-28 19:30:54	jim	I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together
2021-06-28 19:30:57	Voxel	If you're so previous about words  here, then please use appropriate gender calling like "them", for example.
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2021-06-28 19:31:13	--	Khaytsus is now known as MaudDib
2021-06-28 19:31:23	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-06-28 19:31:23	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:voxel] by litharge
2021-06-28 19:31:24	<--	litharge has kicked Voxel (You are banned from this channel)
2021-06-28 19:31:32	-->	cronos (~cronos@user/cronos) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 19:31:34	--	Mode #linux [-o litharge] by litharge
2021-06-28 19:31:41	neshpion	gottem
2021-06-28 19:31:42	--	MaudDib is now known as Khaytsus
2021-06-28 19:32:08	Sauvin	For somebody who claims to be so knowledgeable about English: s/previous/particular/;
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2021-06-28 19:32:43	BCMM	Sauvin: i think it was a typo for "precious"
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2021-06-28 19:32:52	BCMM	keys are next to each other, and spellchecker wouldn't catch it
2021-06-28 19:32:58	neshpion	but that doesn't make any sense either
2021-06-28 19:33:04	Sauvin	Yeah, spellcheckers are idiots.
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2021-06-28 19:33:21	blackgatonegro	How it should have ended made me sick of the gollum meme
2021-06-28 19:33:39	kimahri	About a week ago my GPG started automatically storing my passphrase. Even after reboot. I'm never prompted for a password... Finally, they got to me T.T
2021-06-28 19:34:04	blackgatonegro	GPG?
2021-06-28 19:34:14	neshpion	kimahri: set up your gpg-agent to not remember it
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2021-06-28 19:34:26	kimahri	s/my GPG/GnuPG
2021-06-28 19:34:48	kimahri	neshpion: Tried all that, and restated gpg-agent, and rebooted... No dice. This is the end of the world mates.
2021-06-28 19:34:50	blackgatonegro	Can't you just delete a file or edit it?
2021-06-28 19:35:05	neshpion	kimahri: what configuration have you tried?
2021-06-28 19:35:10	neshpion	you can literally change how long it stores anything
2021-06-28 19:35:30	neshpion	oh but i guess if it still remembers after killing gpg-agent that is a different situation
2021-06-28 19:35:42	blackgatonegro	Usually when is a bug I cannot fix, I backup, wipe and reinstall.
2021-06-28 19:35:59	neshpion	kimahri: does your private key still actually have a passphrase on it?
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2021-06-28 19:38:51	kimahri	Holy hand grenades neshpion, you may have got it!
2021-06-28 19:38:59	neshpion	lol
2021-06-28 19:39:05	<--	lad (~lad@user/lad) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-28 19:39:43	blackgatonegro	Persistent cache file?
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2021-06-28 19:40:35	kimahri	neshpion: Ah never mind, passphrase still in tact. Only my main key does this though. Files encrypted with my various other keys prompt for password.
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2021-06-28 19:41:26	neshpion	kimahri: do you see anything from `env | grep GPG`? (don't paste it anywhere)
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2021-06-28 19:42:25	kimahri	neshpion:  Negative. Hmm. I'm a bit baffled.
2021-06-28 19:42:34	--	Mode #linux [+o Sauvin] by ChanServ
2021-06-28 19:42:40	fanto	Und weiter
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2021-06-28 19:42:49	--	Mode #linux [-b $a:voxel] by Sauvin
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2021-06-28 19:44:02	neshpion	kimahri: do you have a ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf with anything suspicious-looking in it?
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2021-06-28 19:45:06	Voxel	I'm sorry for my misbehave here moments ago. For some reason, I misunderstood acronym versus "short message service" thing. Anyway, sorry. I'll try me best using no "short message service" type words here anymore.
2021-06-28 19:45:21	 *	kfrench hugs Voxel.
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2021-06-28 19:45:49	kimahri	neshpion: That file is empty. Just deleted it. Also deleted gpg.conf.
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2021-06-28 19:46:22	blackgatonegro	By the way guys if you have a VM in your machine that you have no clue were it came from, it may be malware. https://it.slashdot.org/story/21/06/28/1521220/using-vms-to-hide-ransomware-attacks-is-becoming-more-popular
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2021-06-28 19:47:47	kimahri	Tried to remote gnupg2 but too many dependencies (artix cinnamon)
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2021-06-28 19:48:39	kimahri	remove*
2021-06-28 19:48:54	blackgatonegro	kimahri if you are going to start deleting stuff at random you may as well reinstall the whole thing.
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2021-06-28 19:49:43	kimahri	blackgatonegro: Sorry negro, no defeatest here.
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2021-06-28 19:50:19	ayecee	defeatist
2021-06-28 19:50:28	blackgatonegro	Again, did you check for cache files?
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2021-06-28 19:50:32	kimahri	Thank you ayecee (truly).
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2021-06-28 19:50:57	kimahri	blackgatonegro:  Just deleted them all
2021-06-28 19:51:19	kimahri	Joking :)
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2021-06-28 19:51:39	kimahri	I appreciate y'all. I'll get to the bottom of this.
2021-06-28 19:51:52	-->	slavfox (~slavfox@93.158.232.111) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 19:51:56	ayecee	or delete everything trying
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2021-06-28 19:52:25	blackgatonegro	Read the FAQ maybe you used an auto login option by accident.
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2021-06-28 19:53:24	blackgatonegro	Did you look inside the configuration file?
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2021-06-28 19:56:12	neshpion	kimahri: does `ps aux | grep -i gpg` show anything interesting?
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2021-06-28 19:57:50	kimahri	neshpion:   returns:    gpg-agent --homedir ~/.gnupg --use-standard-socket --daemon
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2021-06-28 19:58:40	Sauvin	Pingouts :(
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2021-06-28 20:00:57	neshpion	i don't even see them :D
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2021-06-28 20:03:44	Sauvin	irssi can be told to ignore joins, parts and quits in particular channels. HexChat can, too, but it's more work.
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2021-06-28 20:04:21	Voxel	I'd recommend WeeChat. Related: https://blog.weechat.org/post/2008/10/25/Smart-IRC-join-part-quit-message-filter
2021-06-28 20:04:37	neshpion	same
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2021-06-28 20:05:09	Voxel	From above resource: When a nick spoke on channel during past X minutes (where X is delay irc.look.smart_filter_delay), its join/part/quit will be displayed by default. Otherwise, if nick did not speak for a long time, all join/part/quit messages will be tagged with "irc_smart_filter".
2021-06-28 20:05:09	kimahri	I get concerned when I see those pingouts. Bought a Lenovo thinkpad and the wifi6 card is detective. Wifi barely works. Sucks. Reminds me of that 1660ti that burned out in a month of my son playing minecraft..... what a turn off.
2021-06-28 20:05:41	Voxel	1660 Ti burned out?
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2021-06-28 20:05:48	neshpion	herobrine did it
2021-06-28 20:05:49	blackgatonegro	kimahri remember libera still has growing pains
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2021-06-28 20:06:20	Voxel	kimahri did you get a backup in the hardware service or something?
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2021-06-28 20:06:29	Voxel	I mean, did you have an active warranty?
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2021-06-28 20:08:47	kimahri	neshpion: Lol, just heard that name a few days ago. Turns on my office computer is his minecraft rig whilst GPU prices are.... lethal.
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2021-06-28 20:09:20	kimahri	blackgatonegro: As for those growing pains, I still am uncertain on this IRC conspiracy. "When in Rome".
2021-06-28 20:09:59	kimahri	Voxel:  I was too busy (lazy) to use that warranty. Prob still have it; I really should check.
2021-06-28 20:10:12	blackgatonegro	Mostly is the fact that libera grew too fast so we may need an extra server or something
2021-06-28 20:10:14	kimahri	Will do that now. This GPG thing is just kinda paramount.
2021-06-28 20:10:42	Voxel	Of course. i had a Zotac 1080 Ti which behaved like 1060, so they returned the full price.
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2021-06-28 20:12:12	Voxel	You might also find ##hardware wonderful channel interesting as well regarding that issue.
2021-06-28 20:12:20	 *	neshpion putters along on his 1650 max-q
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2021-06-28 20:46:52	ryzenda	Is there a larger generic linux phones IRC channel? something that focuses covering all the latest developments, not just the #pinephone?
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2021-06-28 20:53:26	Dagmar	I think perhaps you overestimate the size of that space
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2021-06-28 20:54:33	Sauvin	Looks like you'd have slightly better luck looking for channels about iphones. :\
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2021-06-28 20:58:34	Gustavo6046	I freaking rebooted
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2021-06-28 20:59:18	arcturus	why for
2021-06-28 20:59:36	Gustavo6046	because of this stupid wireless connection acting up
2021-06-28 20:59:48	Gustavo6046	i dunno if it's linux, broadcom, or the antenna cable in the laptop screen frame spazzing
2021-06-28 20:59:55	Gustavo6046	I think it's ALL of the above
2021-06-28 20:59:59	Gustavo6046	And it fucking sucks -.-
2021-06-28 21:00:03	Gustavo6046	I did NOTHING today.
2021-06-28 21:00:04	Gustavo6046	Ugh.
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2021-06-28 21:00:30	Gustavo6046	I am very frustrated.
2021-06-28 21:00:45	Dagmar	I blame Realtek
2021-06-28 21:00:53	Gustavo6046	realtek?
2021-06-28 21:00:55	Gustavo6046	I don't even use it
2021-06-28 21:00:58	Gustavo6046	i never use the ethernet
2021-06-28 21:01:08	Gustavo6046	Realtek is only for ethernet
2021-06-28 21:01:13	<--	scez_mon (~santi@200.127.221.170) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:01:22	Gustavo6046	I use a Broadcom BCM4313 wireless card
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2021-06-28 21:01:36	Gustavo6046	I have no access to ethernet
2021-06-28 21:01:43	rascul	broadcom is eww
2021-06-28 21:01:54	<--	trusch (~trusch@87.123.135.205) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:02:28	Gustavo6046	What does "TxMCS 7" mean when I do "station wlan0 show" in iwctl?
2021-06-28 21:02:28	Gustavo6046	rascul: the floor is made out of floor
2021-06-28 21:03:20	<--	metah4ck3r (~meta@user/metah4ck3r) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:03:23	rascul	false
2021-06-28 21:03:29	rascul	the floor is made out of things that make a floor
2021-06-28 21:03:33	Gustavo6046	 1. _gateway                          6.2%    16   13.9 279.4  13.9 701.4 177.6
2021-06-28 21:03:39	Gustavo6046	see that?
2021-06-28 21:03:42	Gustavo6046	that's pain
2021-06-28 21:03:48	rascul	i dunno what txmcs is but probably something to do with transmission
2021-06-28 21:03:52	Gustavo6046	 Host                                                              Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
2021-06-28 21:03:56	Gustavo6046	yeah duh it clearly is
2021-06-28 21:04:18	<--	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:04:22	rascul	is there an external antenna?
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2021-06-28 21:04:24	Gustavo6046	I wanna slap the back of the laptop screen/id on the wall until wireless decides to work again
2021-06-28 21:04:35	Gustavo6046	or everything fucking break, whichever happens first
2021-06-28 21:04:43	Gustavo6046	rascul: it's internal
2021-06-28 21:04:44	rascul	oh a laptop, probably not an external antenna
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2021-06-28 21:04:50	Gustavo6046	in laptops the antenna is a wire that goes around the screen, inside the frame
2021-06-28 21:05:14	rascul	some laptops
2021-06-28 21:05:22	<--	Guest58 (~textual@170.250.221.149) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-06-28 21:05:24	rascul	there are all sorts of ways they can route the antenna
2021-06-28 21:05:27	Gustavo6046	sure mine too
2021-06-28 21:05:32	Gustavo6046	and mine sitll isn't working
2021-06-28 21:05:37	rascul	smash it
2021-06-28 21:05:40	Gustavo6046	the internet i mean
2021-06-28 21:05:40	Gustavo6046	is really pissy
2021-06-28 21:05:48	Gustavo6046	i do really want to tbh
2021-06-28 21:05:50	rascul	smash it then piss on it
2021-06-28 21:05:57	rascul	then after it dries smash it some more
2021-06-28 21:06:20	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-06-28 21:06:20	Gustavo6046	i wish
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2021-06-28 21:06:35	rascul	quit wishing and do it
2021-06-28 21:06:35	Sauvin	Sounds like somebody needs to join ##pissnet :D
2021-06-28 21:06:47	Gustavo6046	no
2021-06-28 21:06:50	rascul	ok
2021-06-28 21:06:51	Gustavo6046	and what
2021-06-28 21:06:57	rascul	what what
2021-06-28 21:07:01	-->	riff-IRC (~riff-IRC@user/riff-irc) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:07:05	-->	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e86:9228::684b:bb02) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:07:09	Gustavo6046	y'all into watersports lol
2021-06-28 21:07:14	rascul	no
2021-06-28 21:07:22	Gustavo6046	suuuure
2021-06-28 21:07:29	-->	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 21:09:19	Gustavo6046	https://i.imgur.com/p4cXLkY.png
2021-06-28 21:09:23	Gustavo6046	this is ONLY irc and discord
2021-06-28 21:09:34	Gustavo6046	(that is ping to 192.168.0.1)
2021-06-28 21:09:48	Gustavo6046	and my connection is on its god damn knees
2021-06-28 21:09:51	<--	lucf117 (~lucf117@user/lucf117) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-28 21:09:56	rascul	192.168.0.1 times out for me
2021-06-28 21:10:03	rascul	my internets are broken :(
2021-06-28 21:10:03	Gustavo6046	rascul: as in gateway duh
2021-06-28 21:10:06	<--	Shariff (~UserNick@starbase26.connected.by.freedominter.net) has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
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2021-06-28 21:10:35	Gustavo6046	if EVERYTHING internet-facing on my computer is idle, ping to gateway averages to 20 ms. ANYTHING going through it will extremely quickly skyrocket to 2000 ms.
2021-06-28 21:10:38	-->	blue_penquin (uid505269@id-505269.brockwell.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:11:00	rascul	i ping my gateway in .8ms or so
2021-06-28 21:11:43	rascul	wanna use mine? it's pretty fast
2021-06-28 21:11:47	-->	spyroboy (~spyroboy@user/spyroboy) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:11:47	rascul	192.168.1.254
2021-06-28 21:11:47	-->	jarthur (~jarthur@2603-8080-1540-002d-f4dd-c36e-b54e-ab9e.res6.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:11:52	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-06-28 21:11:54	Gustavo6046	i wish
2021-06-28 21:12:11	rascul	i have all the gigabits
2021-06-28 21:12:41	kfrench	rascul: I've used your gateway.  It gets horrible after downloading the first terabyte of cat porn.
2021-06-28 21:12:56	<--	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-28 21:13:00	rascul	it (correctly) doesn't like cats
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2021-06-28 21:16:05	kimahri	I apologize for having abandoned any conversations I had recently been in. Ye Ole' laptop battery drainage during a string of phone calls.
2021-06-28 21:16:23	Gustavo6046	ugh
2021-06-28 21:16:30	Gustavo6046	i want to FIX it
2021-06-28 21:16:31	Gustavo6046	but I can'tr
2021-06-28 21:16:35	Gustavo6046	there is no way I am aware of
2021-06-28 21:16:39	Gustavo6046	and I can't use ethernet
2021-06-28 21:16:50	Gustavo6046	a cold reboot didn't fix it
2021-06-28 21:17:00	Gustavo6046	it seems normal now, but emphasis on SEEMS
2021-06-28 21:17:09	Gustavo6046	I'll start Firefox
2021-06-28 21:17:32	Gustavo6046	I didn't even open any website and the ping to the gateway is already starting to gradually shit itself
2021-06-28 21:17:33	rascul	do you have similar issues with another distro or os?
2021-06-28 21:17:35	kimahri	Would someone please share with me their ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf with me please? Maybe I'll wipe my ~/.cache. This bug is killter.
2021-06-28 21:17:41	kimahri	What are we fixing Gustavo6046?
2021-06-28 21:17:45	Gustavo6046	Funny thing is that with Firefox, it's a gradual shit, rather than like a diarrhea
2021-06-28 21:18:07	Gustavo6046	kimahri: my Internet connection's abismally tiny throughput
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2021-06-28 21:18:40	Gustavo6046	it is low latency, but if I put even the tiniest load on it it spazzes out into the thousands of miliseconds and screws with my IRC connections and the like
2021-06-28 21:19:01	Gustavo6046	I close Firefox and the latency is normal again.
2021-06-28 21:19:05	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2021-06-28 21:19:48	kimahri	Gustavo6046: I think I have had this issue before. Your throughput is shot whilst Firefox is open. When closed, curl/ping all that is good?
2021-06-28 21:20:14	Gustavo6046	kimahri: it's not Firefox
2021-06-28 21:20:18	Gustavo6046	*anything* causes this issue
2021-06-28 21:20:20	cadderly	mozilla's really come a long way if you think about it
2021-06-28 21:20:24	Gustavo6046	heck, even wireguard does
2021-06-28 21:20:31	cadderly	I remember using the old netscape
2021-06-28 21:20:36	kimahri	Hmm.
2021-06-28 21:20:49	Gustavo6046	heck, even Discord does, and anything that puts even the tiniest amount of continuous load on the network
2021-06-28 21:21:16	-->	sn1tch3r (~sn1tch3r@201-27-147-42.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #linux
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2021-06-28 21:22:38	kimahri	Gustavo6046: My autism suggests you should create another desktop enabled user, login and see if issue persists on that account.
2021-06-28 21:22:42	autopsy	Dagmar, I eneded up removing the 4GB sticks and placing them in my desktop computer.
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2021-06-28 21:23:01	kimahri	Perhaps there is some network interface conjiggered
2021-06-28 21:23:14	autopsy	Dagmar, I eneded up placing the 2GB and 1 GB sticks in the server, and it's running runlevel 3 with vsftpd sshd httpd and squid running on it.
2021-06-28 21:23:26	Gustavo6046	kimahri: I usually use two tincs and a set of wireguard tunnels (the latter is dn42), but the issue happens even if they're not active
2021-06-28 21:23:40	autopsy	Dagmar, soi I could fully utilize all the RAM now.
2021-06-28 21:23:53	-->	alucardromero (~alucardro@107-131-221-213.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:24:42	Gustavo6046	Dagmar: so, now that I managed to figure that it's basically network load (even the tiniest amounts thereof!) causing the issue, now I have to ask.
2021-06-28 21:24:50	-->	andreasbuhr_ (~quassel@p549db957.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:24:54	Dagmar	Sounds like the NIC is knackered
2021-06-28 21:24:58	Bashing-om	Gustavo6046: Redo the driver: "Help with Broadcom bcm43xx can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx" ??
2021-06-28 21:25:07	Gustavo6046	Does it make sense for ping to a wireless network gateway to be affected so easily by small amounts of "load" going through said wireless connection?
2021-06-28 21:25:13	<--	hidark (~hidark@126.red-83-34-145.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-28 21:27:15	autopsy	Gustavo6046, run: iwlist scan from a client wireless PC.
2021-06-28 21:27:37	-->	pete443 (~pete@user/pete443) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:27:48	autopsy	Gustavo6046, see which cells are in which channels, then choose an unusuaed channel and switch your router's wireless transmitter to use an unused channel.
2021-06-28 21:27:52	--	admint__ is now known as Butterfly^
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2021-06-28 21:29:47	autopsy	Gustavo6046, because what you are experiencing is interference by a saturated channel.
2021-06-28 21:30:19	-->	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:31:33	blackgatonegro	Are Linux phones still a thing?
2021-06-28 21:31:58	<--	magicSchlingel (~RatChat@cpe-173-172-186-158.tx.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:32:02	spyroboy	librem, pinephone
2021-06-28 21:32:14	blackgatonegro	What they run into?
2021-06-28 21:32:22	rascul	they ran into android
2021-06-28 21:32:23	spyroboy	google it?
2021-06-28 21:32:31	blackgatonegro	FirefoxOs is dead.
2021-06-28 21:32:42	<--	apn_ (apn@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/apn) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:32:54	blackgatonegro	That's my point they are not Linux phones.
2021-06-28 21:33:03	rascul	what is a linux phone?
2021-06-28 21:33:10	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-28 21:33:22	blackgatonegro	A phone that runs on Linux... Didn't really work out.
2021-06-28 21:33:28	--	OneFlyingWaffle is now known as FlyingWaffle
2021-06-28 21:33:32	rascul	android runs linux kernel
2021-06-28 21:33:33	spyroboy	librem, pinephone
2021-06-28 21:33:35	spyroboy	google it.
2021-06-28 21:33:43	Gustavo6046	autopsy: I am on the client wireless PC
2021-06-28 21:33:44	Gustavo6046	(on mine anyway)
2021-06-28 21:33:44	Gustavo6046	There is one cell
2021-06-28 21:33:45	rascul	pinephone is a thing and librem is an expensive thing
2021-06-28 21:33:46	Gustavo6046	ah
2021-06-28 21:33:46	Gustavo6046	that does sound like it
2021-06-28 21:34:20	blackgatonegro	Yeah but by that definition then Macs are Unix PCs
2021-06-28 21:34:40	rascul	which definition?
2021-06-28 21:34:47	-->	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:34:47	rascul	mac is certified unix
2021-06-28 21:35:02	spyroboy	'unix pc' is strictly not a term in the way you want it to be.
2021-06-28 21:35:03	rascul	https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3668.htm
2021-06-28 21:35:16	<--	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:35:30	rascul	macos has been unix for awhile now
2021-06-28 21:35:38	blackgatonegro	https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS
2021-06-28 21:35:38	spyroboy	macos is not unix.
2021-06-28 21:35:42	rascul	depending on your definition of unix
2021-06-28 21:35:48	blackgatonegro	There, a Linux phone!
2021-06-28 21:35:52	spyroboy	Unix is a very specific thing.
2021-06-28 21:36:02	spyroboy	Linux, Android, and Darwin are all not Unix.
2021-06-28 21:36:19	blackgatonegro	Even less functional that FirefoxOs was..
2021-06-28 21:36:27	rascul	the open group gives out specific certifications to those that are legally allowed to be sold as unix
2021-06-28 21:36:46	rascul	macos is certified unix by the open group
2021-06-28 21:37:11	circuitbone	macosx is unix certified from 10.5 upwards
2021-06-28 21:37:36	-->	e36freak (~e36freak@user/e36freak) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:37:43	circuitbone	macos is the new name for that os
2021-06-28 21:38:06	<--	alzgh (~alzgh@216.155.158.214) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-06-28 21:39:08	blackgatonegro	Anyway... There is open source firmware for WiFi routers kind off... a bit scared to try it on my.legacy router.
2021-06-28 21:39:18	<--	rtypo (~alex@user/rtypo) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:39:34	rascul	atk9k has open source firmwares if i recall correctly, but ath9k devices are a bit dated nowadays
2021-06-28 21:39:43	<--	rifl (~user@user/rifl) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-28 21:40:38	blackgatonegro	Well my router is a bit dated... but not gonna flash it until I get another router.
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2021-06-28 21:41:19	kimahri	I've been using gnome/cinnamon my whole life basically.... Is it time to switch to KDE?
2021-06-28 21:41:25	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:41:27	rascul	sure, if you want to
2021-06-28 21:41:31	rascul	or something else, if you want to
2021-06-28 21:41:40	neshpion	it's time to switch to i3
2021-06-28 21:41:41	rascul	or just don't switch, if you don't want to
2021-06-28 21:41:43	blackgatonegro	bye bye nighty nighty
2021-06-28 21:41:48	<--	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has quit (Quit: I am leaving and I am taking the spaceship with me!)
2021-06-28 21:42:06	kimahri	i3 for VMs, not the daily driver.
2021-06-28 21:42:08	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-28 21:42:09	rascul	blackbox is pretty much the only wm worth running though
2021-06-28 21:43:26	Sauvin	kimahri, this is Linux. You have all kinds of choices. Try a few and see what you like!
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2021-06-28 21:44:45	MrPockets	I can't tell the ubuntu 20.04 to stop complaining and use SMB1
2021-06-28 21:44:47	MrPockets	and its making me sad
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2021-06-28 21:46:19	ayecee	your sadness is making me sad too
2021-06-28 21:46:23	-->	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:46:29	kimahri	Nothing could be worse than GPG not prompting for your password. The end is neigh.
2021-06-28 21:48:19	Dagmar	There is basically no good reason to use SMB1
2021-06-28 21:48:25	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@28.sub-97-43-193.myvzw.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-06-28 21:48:49	ayecee	and if there are, Dagmar wouldn't approve of them
2021-06-28 21:48:58	<--	FlyingWaffle (FlyingWaff@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flyingwaffle) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-28 21:49:15	Dagmar	LIke, if you're still using Windows 95.
2021-06-28 21:49:42	Gustavo6046	autopsy: unfortunately I am unable to access the router configuration; the web UI loads basically forever, and it does not listen on Telnet.
2021-06-28 21:49:43	Gustavo6046	Dagmar: but what about all the samba
2021-06-28 21:49:44	Gustavo6046	:p
2021-06-28 21:49:51	ayecee	i like to think that this is to access some ancient piece of kit that can't be replaced yet because not everyone can afford to drop cash on these things
2021-06-28 21:50:06	Dagmar	You misspelled 's**t'.
2021-06-28 21:50:25	ayecee	i have more words, i don't have to default like that
2021-06-28 21:50:39	rg	i love i3
2021-06-28 21:50:59	rascul	what about 3.1 though?
2021-06-28 21:51:18	ayecee	won't someone think of the 3.1 users?!
2021-06-28 21:51:22	<--	Guest62 (~Guest62@69-230-153-205.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-28 21:51:34	-->	HaMsTeRs (~mx@14-0-169-108.static.pccw-hkt.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:51:43	rascul	95 wasn't an improvement over 3.11
2021-06-28 21:51:46	kimahri	With i3, how are y'all opening your web-browser. Via shell  `some_browser &`, do you have an application_launcher on some status bar? Are y'all using Ranger and nemo. Give me the deets. Maybe I should.
2021-06-28 21:52:07	 *	Sauvin laughs at dagmar
2021-06-28 21:52:07	kimahri	Ahh, I'll just stick to Cinnamon. Just too many working parts is why I really should switch to i3.
2021-06-28 21:52:33	Dagmar	Even _Microsoft_ is ordering people to stop using SMB1
2021-06-28 21:52:40	Dagmar	It's completely not secure.
2021-06-28 21:52:44	rascul	'some_browser &' might make a lot of noise
2021-06-28 21:52:54	kimahri	dmenu statusbar launcher thing,  Ah yea.
2021-06-28 21:53:05	ayecee	as long as the noise isn't "womp womp" it's probably fine
2021-06-28 21:53:10	kimahri	lol
2021-06-28 21:53:23	neshpion	kimahri: i have a keybind ($mod+b) to launch my browser.  i have i3blocks as my status bar with a few goodies on it (e.g. a one-click VPN toggle button) and i use ranger because it uses vim keys.  also i use vim <3
2021-06-28 21:53:41	-->	ElectronApps (~ElectronA@user/electronapps) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 21:53:47	kimahri	I'll check out some repoistories on this. I really should make the switch.
2021-06-28 21:54:20	<--	TechMonk (~TechMonk@173.241.20.60) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:54:42	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-28 21:55:11	neshpion	i have a bunch of random key combinations bound to a bunch of different shell scripts to do various things
2021-06-28 21:55:15	kimahri	Wifi card crashing hard right now. Time to plug in the old dangling dongle (ethernet)
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2021-06-28 22:06:03	rapirent	tstatusbar window add vim_windows
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2021-06-28 22:19:33	rascul	lacroix probably we should have kicked the other guy first
2021-06-28 22:19:33	-->	l554 (~l554@user/l554) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 22:19:43	rascul	or maybe not, i dunno
2021-06-28 22:19:47	lacroix	It's a bot I think
2021-06-28 22:19:50	rascul	oh
2021-06-28 22:20:17	<--	akoana (~ah@user/akoana) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-28 22:20:21	rascul	well #linux ops can always take control in the future if something happens, which seems unlikely
2021-06-28 22:20:31	lacroix	indeed
2021-06-28 22:20:44	Khaytsus	The ops taking control unlikely?  True.
2021-06-28 22:21:25	lacroix	what rascul meant is "something happening in that channel is unlikely" - it has no activity.
2021-06-28 22:21:40	lacroix	it was rascul, me and myself, and a bot :)
2021-06-28 22:22:08	rascul	there was two bots but the other one got drunk and went home
2021-06-28 22:22:19	lacroix	right
2021-06-28 22:22:46	lacroix	heading to work here, sun's up
2021-06-28 22:22:51	rascul	sun is the worst
2021-06-28 22:22:55	rascul	put it back down
2021-06-28 22:22:58	lacroix	enjoy your day :)
2021-06-28 22:23:02	rascul	:)
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2021-06-28 22:29:46	loganlee	hey guys i got this far: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68171693/reverse-proxy-using-proxypass
2021-06-28 22:29:58	puff	Good evening.  I seem to have two screensavers, xscreensaver and another.
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2021-06-28 22:30:26	puff	When I tape the keyboard, I get the one login dialog, enter the password, then I get the xscreensaver dialog.
2021-06-28 22:30:28	puff	xubuntu 18.
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2021-06-28 22:30:49	puff	Also, the screensaver never turns off the monitor.  It blanks the screen, but the monitor backlight stays on.
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2021-06-28 22:31:05	puff	I think the other oneis gnome-screensaver.
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2021-06-28 22:32:12	puff	Hm, I just ran the xscreensaver config dialog andit told me gnome screensaver is running and must be stopped for xscreenaver to work properly. So I clicked OK. I suspect there's som other setting that I need to change, to keep gnome screenaver from being started again.
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2021-06-28 22:34:29	puff	Hm, this webpage recommends just using apt to uninstall gnome-screensaver.
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2021-06-28 22:35:01	Dagmar	Sounds reasonable
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2021-06-28 22:36:35	puff	Just found JWZ's xscreensaver manual which also recommends just removing gnome-screensaver (with much vitriol) so I guess it's probbaly safe.
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2021-06-28 22:36:48	Dagmar	He has good reason to be salty
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2021-06-28 22:37:11	puff	Yeah, he has a short version of the story there.
2021-06-28 22:37:13	Dagmar	They copied his code without attribution, and then fucked it up in ways that resulted in vulnerabilities.
2021-06-28 22:37:30	Dagmar	...and it's not like he hadn't been warning people for ages that it's not as easy as it looks.
2021-06-28 22:37:53	Dagmar	Plus when he called someone out on it, they promptly tried to hand wave the whole thing with deprecating comments.
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2021-06-28 22:38:11	puff	His FAQ on it ends with "remember, once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, three times is enemy action, and four times if official gnome policy."
2021-06-28 22:38:19	Dagmar	HJahahahah
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2021-06-28 22:38:36	RingtailedFox	lololol
2021-06-28 22:38:51	puff	Okay, gnome-screensaver uninstalled, we'll see if it works better now.
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2021-06-28 22:39:13	Dagmar	Suprise the "old people" new devs don't want to listen to actually happen to know what they're talkign about
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2021-06-28 22:41:36	KillerWasp	hi random furry guys
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2021-06-28 22:41:58	cube1	I'd like to learn what kind of commands a modern GPU exposes to its kernel driver. Where could I find something?
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2021-06-28 22:44:44	autopsy	I keep getting a second delay after about every 6 seconds on my secure shell instance to the server, it's seemingly like a processor spike, is there a way I can find out what I can renice?
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2021-06-28 22:45:48	KillerWasp	cube1# maybe from https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/demos.git
2021-06-28 22:47:15	cube1	KillerWasp: Mesa is userspace. I mean the PCIe interface between the kernel and the GPU device
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2021-06-28 22:47:53	KillerWasp	cube1# you can compile it and use from src/demos/glinfo
2021-06-28 22:48:34	KillerWasp	cube1# oh, then lspci
2021-06-28 22:49:13	KillerWasp	It doesn't really report much like the programs in git
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2021-06-28 22:49:59	cube1	I'll look into the Intel and AMD kernel drivers. I'm already looking at Mesa to learn the userspace details but from that I don't understand how a GPU works
2021-06-28 22:50:09	cube1	only how Vulkan is implemented
2021-06-28 22:51:10	vwork	autopsy: Seeming like a processor spike and being one aren't the same. And if it's a consistent problem regardless of actual load, I doubt renicing anything would matter
2021-06-28 22:52:07	cube1	KillerWasp: Wait, I think I found it. https://01.org/linuxgraphics/documentation/hardware-specification-prms - Volume 13
2021-06-28 22:52:12	KillerWasp	cube1# Are you only interested in finding out about the GPU or do you need to solve a specific problem?
2021-06-28 22:53:22	cube1	KillerWasp: I want to understand how well the kernel driver can manipulate the GPUs state, without the GPU itself running a program, so that I can infer from that what's going on behind some Vulkan commands, so I can design my application better
2021-06-28 22:54:13	-->	jake1 (~jake@78-47-86-21.cinfuserver.com) has joined #linux
2021-06-28 22:54:23	cube1	Mostly I'm curious how descriptor sets are fed to shader programs
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2021-06-28 22:55:06	KillerWasp	i see
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2021-06-28 22:57:36	autopsy	vwork, now what about me running 'stress' over secure shell, as soosn as I start it it disconnects me.
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2021-06-28 22:59:26	onelegend	Open Berkeley Software Distribution Secure Shell
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2021-06-28 23:00:39	vwork	autopsy: Is this server normally under a lot of cpu/memory load?
2021-06-28 23:01:44	vwork	Also, those could be two unrelated problems. Intermittent lag and getting disconnected because of high system load aren't necessarily connected
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2021-06-28 23:07:56	neshpion	hehe, connected
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2021-06-28 23:08:51	vwork	:)
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2021-06-28 23:58:10	talismanick	Despite having created /usr/share/applications/emacsclient.desktop, which includes "MimeType=...application/pdf;", Firefox won't let me open PDFs in Emacs.
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2021-06-29 00:00:10	talismanick	same permissions as all the other .desktop files in the folder
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2021-06-29 00:00:44	chrisawi	talismanick: can you pastebin the desktop file?
2021-06-29 00:01:08	[[R]]	talismanick: are you sure thats the mime type the server is presenting?
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2021-06-29 00:01:26	talismanick	chrisawi: https://0x0.st/-p6f.desktop
2021-06-29 00:02:16	talismanick	I copied most of it (aside from the actual command and some of the MimeTypes, which I added) from one on Github, but I understand what it says
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2021-06-29 00:04:07	chrisawi	you need something like %u in the Exec= line: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s07.html
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2021-06-29 00:10:06	talismanick	chrisawi: Some of the other programs which curiously show up in the "Choose A Helper App" dialogue don't have that either
2021-06-29 00:10:20	talismanick	e.g. drracket.desktop has %F (open a list of files)
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2021-06-29 00:10:48	talismanick	and neither %u nor %F added to the end of Exec= for emacsclient.desktop have helped
2021-06-29 00:10:52	chrisawi	%F is included in "something like"
2021-06-29 00:11:10	talismanick	I might need to add one or the other and then reload some sort of cache?
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2021-06-29 00:12:29	chrisawi	there is `update-desktop-database`
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2021-06-29 00:15:38	talismanick	chrisawi: Doesn't seem to have made a difference. I ran "sudo update-desktop-database" (because it gave an error without), and tried again in FF
2021-06-29 00:15:46	talismanick	I then restarted FF and got the same error
2021-06-29 00:15:56	talismanick	Now I'll try over again, with %F instead of %u
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2021-06-29 00:16:25	chrisawi	if you have the gio command, what does `gio mime application/pdf` say?
2021-06-29 00:16:32	talismanick	Actually, I'll try %f this time
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2021-06-29 00:17:13	talismanick	chrisawi: 'No default applications for "application/pdf"
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2021-06-29 00:18:14	chrisawi	no other output?
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2021-06-29 00:19:08	chrisawi	I was interested in the "Registered applications" section; I can't see an equivalent for that with xdg-mime
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2021-06-29 00:20:34	talismanick	Well, I looked it up, and SO says to put application/pdf=$APP in ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
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2021-06-29 00:20:43	talismanick	Which I've done now, so I'll try that
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2021-06-29 00:23:22	talismanick	nope
2021-06-29 00:23:48	Sauvin	I just walked in. What is "SO"?
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2021-06-29 00:24:36	chrisawi	significant other
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2021-06-29 00:26:29	chrisawi	that file is apparently deprecated in favor of ~/.config/mimeapps.list
2021-06-29 00:26:37	rascul	snowy owl
2021-06-29 00:26:44	[[R]]	rascul: you're an owl
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2021-06-29 00:26:53	talismanick	superb owl
2021-06-29 00:27:03	rascul	that's not a real owl
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2021-06-29 00:27:21	rascul	no owls are superb
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2021-06-29 00:28:31	chrisawi	talismanick: if you just want it to be an option (but not default), you can apparently put it in the [Added Associations] section: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/mime-apps-spec/latest/ar01s04.html
2021-06-29 00:28:48	chrisawi	but listing it in the .desktop file should do the same thing
2021-06-29 00:28:51	talismanick	rascul: then why do so many people look up "SuperbOwl"?
2021-06-29 00:28:58	talismanick	That many Americans can't be wrong
2021-06-29 00:29:08	rascul	the space is off by onw
2021-06-29 00:29:14	<--	cyndaquil (~job@user/job) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-29 00:29:15	rascul	super bowl     superb owl
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2021-06-29 00:29:25	rascul	s/onw/one/
2021-06-29 00:29:44	rascul	they're almost the same thing though
2021-06-29 00:29:50	talismanick	thejoke.png
2021-06-29 00:30:19	talismanick	Sauvin: Stack Overflow
2021-06-29 00:30:59	rascul	owls are better than stack overflow though
2021-06-29 00:31:01	Sauvin	talismanick, oh. Thanks.
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2021-06-29 00:31:13	talismanick	Well, at least ~/.config/mimeapps.list already exists and has some entries
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2021-06-29 00:31:43	talismanick	but editing it, closing FF, running "sudo update-desktop-database", and restarting FF has changed nothing
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2021-06-29 00:34:25	rascul	forest falcon
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2021-06-29 00:35:22	talismanick	finally
2021-06-29 00:35:26	talismanick	seems to have taken a moment to update
2021-06-29 00:35:32	talismanick	chrisawi: thanks for all the help!
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2021-06-29 00:38:28	sysRPL	does anyone here like checkers the fast food burger joint?
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2021-06-29 00:39:34	sysRPL	i went there today an got 2 large sodas, a big bufford, a deep sea double, cheese sticks, and fries ... the total was $3.20
2021-06-29 00:39:50	[[R]]	sysRPL: EXTREME
2021-06-29 00:40:10	sysRPL	i felt like we went back in time to 1960
2021-06-29 00:40:45	Kyv	you a big boy arent you
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2021-06-29 00:40:53	Kyv	their friends were pretty more-ish
2021-06-29 00:41:03	Kyv	friends?
2021-06-29 00:41:04	Kyv	fries
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2021-06-29 00:43:36	sysRPL	Kyv: i has been a serious weight lifter for about 35 years ... so yeha i am big
2021-06-29 00:44:20	sysRPL	and i have a pretty extensive free weight gym in a detached garage
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2021-06-29 00:45:24	Kyv	who's a big boy?
2021-06-29 00:46:16	sysRPL	we were pretty busy with guests using our gym last year due to covid
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2021-06-29 00:47:07	sysRPL	a well stocked private gym ... open any time if i gave you a key
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2021-06-29 00:47:51	Kyv	I've got several rock climbing walls here at the chateau
2021-06-29 00:47:59	Kyv	well, they arent really rock climbing walls
2021-06-29 00:47:59	sysRPL	okay
2021-06-29 00:48:02	Kyv	they are just walls
2021-06-29 00:48:08	Kyv	but you can climb them
2021-06-29 00:48:16	sysRPL	what's underneath them?
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2021-06-29 00:49:31	Kyv	the floor, I reckon
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2021-06-29 00:49:42	sysRPL	that's not very safe
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2021-06-29 00:50:10	Kyv	youre much more likely to fall into an end table or something than hit the floor directly
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2021-06-29 00:51:02	sysRPL	last year an old guy asked me about a place to exercise ... he heard about my gym ... i said sure come by anytime and i gave him a key
2021-06-29 00:51:20	gry	and then?
2021-06-29 00:51:36	sysRPL	then he came by that evening and two of my friend were there half dressed in their underwear squatting doing deadlifts
2021-06-29 00:52:02	sysRPL	the old man then though we were some king of gay guy hangout, and ave the key back right there
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2021-06-29 00:52:18	Kyv	thats what happens when you give the key out willly nilly
2021-06-29 00:52:29	Kyv	you come in one day and find a bunch of people squatting in there
2021-06-29 00:53:21	sysRPL	he seemed like a nice old man, but my friends had gotten a bit too relaxed like they own the place. taking off their clothes down to their underwear to cool off while workign out
2021-06-29 00:53:42	Kyv	sounds like a bit much
2021-06-29 00:53:47	sysRPL	yeah
2021-06-29 00:53:59	sysRPL	they're more than nuts
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2021-06-29 00:54:25	Kyv	how do you manage cleaning up this pitsweat fiesta afterwards?
2021-06-29 00:54:42	Kyv	just implore everyone to run a rag over the equipment when they're done?
2021-06-29 00:54:59	sysRPL	i have cleaning up, wiping down, and bring a towel as part of the rules
2021-06-29 00:55:14	sysRPL	i didn't have pants over udnerwear as a rule though
2021-06-29 00:56:10	sysRPL	also, rack the weights, lock up when you leave, turn off the lights / music, and generally keep the place organized
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2021-06-29 00:57:53	aaro	that rule shouldn't be necessary unless you invite superman to that gym
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2021-06-29 00:59:05	sysRPL	there is one of those cross train commercial gyms not far from my my house ... they have crazy high monthly fees and  not much equipment
2021-06-29 00:59:50	sysRPL	but they do have more floor space and have group classes
2021-06-29 01:00:17	sysRPL	it's mostly ropes and step boxes
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2021-06-29 01:02:59	sysRPL	they charge $100/month
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2021-06-29 01:10:32	bradd	Hi. I change my netplan config then 'netplan apply'. My access to www.google.com works. But after about a minute, pinging www.google.com stops working. Does ubuntu reload the network somehow after 1 minute?
2021-06-29 01:12:17	slackadelic	Usually applys it right away
2021-06-29 01:12:23	slackadelic	can you ping the IP when google.com fails?
2021-06-29 01:12:31	slackadelic	like.. can you ping 8.8.8.8?
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2021-06-29 01:13:44	bradd	well it seems to be working now, somehow
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2021-06-29 01:44:15	wirez	any way to save our chromium settings and on a new system load them?
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2021-06-29 01:46:38	[[R]]	wirez: its in ~/.config
2021-06-29 01:47:03	wirez	we just backup the whole dir?
2021-06-29 01:47:07	wirez	i looked in there
2021-06-29 01:47:12	-->	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:920c:8a00::d995) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 01:47:17	wirez	there's no simpel user.conf, it's jammed into a leveldb or something
2021-06-29 01:47:32	<--	AnAverageHuman_ (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-29 01:49:24	wirez	but if i backup and use the whole .config/chromium, that includes a bunch of spying that google does
2021-06-29 01:49:32	wirez	like a list of every site i ever visited and visit counters
2021-06-29 01:49:39	[[R]]	ROFL!
2021-06-29 01:49:44	wirez	i just wanna save my settings not the spying
2021-06-29 01:49:52	wirez	ya nuts isnt it
2021-06-29 01:49:53	lopid	…
2021-06-29 01:50:04	-->	Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 01:50:04	[[R]]	yes, you are nuts
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2021-06-29 01:51:50	wirez	i am? why
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2021-06-29 01:55:05	wirez	ya, no answer like i thought. typical bootlicking idiot slaves trying to make excuses for inexcusable spying
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2021-06-29 01:55:15	[[R]]	ROFL
2021-06-29 01:55:26	wirez	you two losers probably work for google or suck them off somehow
2021-06-29 01:55:33	[[R]]	HAHA
2021-06-29 01:55:54	-->	kenran (~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 01:55:57	gry	hm, looks like [[R]] is 'two people' now
2021-06-29 01:55:58	-->	D__ (~ion_d@user/ion-d/x-7120212) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 01:56:36	gry	what do you need from chromium? the bookmarks? anything else?
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2021-06-29 02:00:20	lopid	no answer, like we thought. typical…
2021-06-29 02:00:37	--	amosbird_ is now known as amosbird
2021-06-29 02:00:57	Kyv	slave to ur chromium profile
2021-06-29 02:02:21	[[R]]	🎶 i'm a slave... for you...
2021-06-29 02:03:04	bparker	guess the mods are asleep
2021-06-29 02:03:50	Sauvin	wirez, take it to -offtopic.
2021-06-29 02:03:53	wirez	gry: i can already export the bookmarks. what i can't get at is the settings
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2021-06-29 02:04:37	 *	Sauvin does some googling
2021-06-29 02:04:47	gry	wirez: well, you could open it and clear all browsing history. then close it. then all the unwanted things will be gone.
2021-06-29 02:05:33	Sauvin	I presume you don't want to use Google Sync or whatever that goofy thing is called?
2021-06-29 02:06:21	firepup	it is google sync lol.
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2021-06-29 02:07:07	Sauvin	I have no idea - I just saw all this crap that's almost indistinguishable from MS crap and my eyes glazed over.
2021-06-29 02:08:08	Sauvin	What I found so far: https://www.repairwin.com/how-to-backup-chrome-profile-settings-bookmarks-extensions/
2021-06-29 02:08:34	Sauvin	I don't use Chrome. :\
2021-06-29 02:08:36	wirez	Sauvin: no i dont
2021-06-29 02:08:47	wirez	gry nope, the spy records stay
2021-06-29 02:08:59	firepup	why not just copy all the files from the chrome profile
2021-06-29 02:09:09	wirez	spy data
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2021-06-29 02:09:30	 *	[[R]] gives free tin foil for everyone!
2021-06-29 02:09:30	firepup	then why not just go through the history and throughly scrub the records then
2021-06-29 02:10:01	Sauvin	See if anybody in #chromium is awake.
2021-06-29 02:10:16	<--	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:920c:8a00::d995) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-29 02:10:49	wirez	it's not in the history, it's blackbox data
2021-06-29 02:11:00	wirez	ok
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2021-06-29 02:11:48	wirez	is the 14 iq [[R]] normal here? almost like the hundreds of leaks just aren't enough to wake the dummy up
2021-06-29 02:12:02	firepup	then just salvage what you can :/ i mean none of us really know where they put the data
2021-06-29 02:12:07	torus	[[R]] has an iq of 14?
2021-06-29 02:12:12	firepup	sarcasm
2021-06-29 02:12:26	torus	idk, that's awefully precise
2021-06-29 02:12:28	[[R]]	torus: no, he's thinking fo his age
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2021-06-29 02:13:52	Kyv	sometimes that is the price you pay of picking up where you left off.
2021-06-29 02:14:08	Kyv	if you change nothing else then that data is only going to accumulate again.
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2021-06-29 02:18:55	node1	What is the default poll interval for NTP?
2021-06-29 02:19:47	kish`	what program will let me print 10 random lines from a text file
2021-06-29 02:19:53	kish`	I forgot what this program was called
2021-06-29 02:20:01	lopid	shuffle
2021-06-29 02:20:03	Kyv	shuf
2021-06-29 02:20:05	kish`	shuf! thnks
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2021-06-29 02:24:12	jim	please don't post sms-speak (so, please use 'thanks', not 'thnks'
2021-06-29 02:24:24	jim	)
2021-06-29 02:25:05	-->	maldridge (~maldridge@netauth/guru/maldridge) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 02:25:16	torus	k
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2021-06-29 02:26:26	torus	y tho
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2021-06-29 02:27:09	torus	is it so [[R]] can understand?
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2021-06-29 02:27:55	jim	torus, long time rule... and careful, you just posted three of them
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2021-06-29 02:31:43	n00b101	Evey time I turn on my android mobile hotspot, I get a random ip address. Can I make a hostname for my android so that instead of typing my ip address I could type `http://hostname:8080`
2021-06-29 02:31:49	n00b101	How this can be possible?
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2021-06-29 02:32:33	Sauvin	When people say "y" instead of "why", what I "hear" is a sound that does not occur in English. 'y' actually is a word - but not in English, so in effect when you said 'y tho', what a lot of people would 'hear' is "there tho".
2021-06-29 02:32:57	-->	rapirent (~rapirent@wrl89-088.nchc.org.tw) has joined #linux
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2021-06-29 02:34:13	Sauvin	Oh... and in two other languages, it could have been rendered as "and tho".
2021-06-29 02:34:35	maldridge	I'm doing things that are very likely to blow up in my face and have wound up in a situation where /dev/sda1 is not mounted, but I can't reload the partition table because the kernel still thinks something is using /dev/sda1.  Is there a good way to get the kernel to completely reset its view w.r.t. disks?
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2021-06-29 02:34:49	firepup	you could reboot
2021-06-29 02:34:55	maldridge	ah, about that
2021-06-29 02:35:12	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-29 02:35:14	maldridge	there's no system on /dev/sda anymore; see previous point "things that will blow up in my face"
2021-06-29 02:35:17	firepup	or just mount -o remount?
2021-06-29 02:35:24	Sauvin	Oh, ugh... re-read the partition table... I almost remember this....!
2021-06-29 02:37:13	Sauvin	maldridge, one of the first things Google turned up: https://serverfault.com/questions/36038/reread-partition-table-without-rebooting  -  is any of this any good?
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2021-06-29 02:37:48	firepup	and just to ask why are you doing things that will blow up in your face
2021-06-29 02:38:02	maldridge	DC is slow to put a KVM on the box
2021-06-29 02:38:13	Sauvin	firepup, watching things go BOOM in a VM can be a riot.
2021-06-29 02:38:15	maldridge	so I'm in a tmpfs chroot that's on a pivot_root and the whole thing is running in memory
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2021-06-29 02:38:43	firepup	does mount -o remount not work?
2021-06-29 02:38:52	maldridge	/ isn't even in /proc/mounts
2021-06-29 02:38:55	firepup	oh.
2021-06-29 02:39:02	maldridge	this might not be recoverable at this point
2021-06-29 02:39:16	firepup	the kernel probably has a process somewhere using /dev/sda1
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2021-06-29 02:40:12	maldridge	hmm, htop can't see anything extra, but it occurs to me now that walking /proc/ I'll probably find more stuff
2021-06-29 02:40:22	firepup	did you enable kernal threads to show up
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2021-06-29 02:41:37	maldridge	hmm, showing kernel threads does show a bunch of running processes, including one that looks like its still hanging on to sda5; hrm
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2021-06-29 02:43:37	firepup	partprobe maybe?
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2021-06-29 02:44:00	maldridge	unsurprisingly its jbd2
2021-06-29 02:44:21	maldridge	so now to figure out how to turn off journaling on a filesystem I don't have any handles for anymore
2021-06-29 02:44:42	firepup	you could just kill it since you already blew up things
2021-06-29 02:44:57	maldridge	kernel threads are not killable last time I checked
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2021-06-29 02:46:37	firepup	you already tried all the solutions in the link sauvin gave?
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2021-06-29 02:47:03	Sauvin	Not something I've ever tried to do so I can't make ANY promises.
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2021-06-29 02:48:03	maldridge	I have gone through most of those, I've isolated it now to BLKRRPART returning device busy
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2021-06-29 02:52:20	maldridge	I think at this point I'm probably in KVM territory, as without a handle to the old filesystem there doesn't appear to be a way to stop the journaling process.  I figured I could be clever and use tune2fs to shut off journaling.
2021-06-29 02:53:29	firepup	rip
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2021-06-29 02:55:40	maldridge	meh, its a learning experience and this is what remote hands are for
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2021-06-29 03:17:30	Norway111	hi
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2021-06-29 03:23:44	Norway111	hi
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2021-06-29 03:26:44	DPA	How do I disable certificate transparency / htpk / htst checks in firefox? It detects my little transparent ssl proxy...
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2021-06-29 04:25:43	varaindemian	Shouldn't this theoretically open a new chromium window with the link provided by $1, give it the name in $2 and then close the window named "what's inside $2" ?
2021-06-29 04:25:44	varaindemian	https://pastebin.com/YwE5pnLm
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2021-06-29 04:37:27	loganlee	hmmmm hi guys
2021-06-29 04:37:53	varaindemian	anyone?
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2021-06-29 04:41:45	Sauvin	varaindemian, I'm not ignoring you, I just don't know anything about chromium.
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2021-06-29 04:42:56	swarfega	perhaps he needs a chromium channel
2021-06-29 04:43:30	rindolf	varaindemian: "&" is run-in-ackground
2021-06-29 04:43:38	rindolf	varaindemian: "&" is run-in-background
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2021-06-29 04:44:27	varaindemian	rindolf ok, but I put this in a script and it doesn;t close the window
2021-06-29 04:44:46	varaindemian	`chromium-browser --app=https://facebook.com & sleep 2 & wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "Test1"`
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2021-06-29 04:44:59	varaindemian	`wmctrl -c "Test1"`
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2021-06-29 04:45:02	varaindemian	this works locally
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2021-06-29 04:45:37	rindolf	varaindemian: no idea
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2021-06-29 04:50:01	bghimis	Hello! I don't know if I should ask this somewhere else, but I can't seem to be able to use xkb to work as default. So I have managed to use Ctrl-I as tab. Now I would like to get back the default behaviour of ^I (C0 character code 0x09). This does not work. Now Ctrl-I outputs '9' keycode 9 not 09. Anyone knows why? Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/c7a160pQ
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2021-06-29 04:50:28	bghimis	I know I can just delete this rule, but thats not what I want to achieve...
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2021-06-29 04:56:38	Sauvin	bghimis, I've never toyed with xkb, and not a lot of people are awake now. Stick around another six hours or so, when New York and Chicago are awake.
2021-06-29 04:57:42	bghimis	Sauvin: Okay, thanks :)
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2021-06-29 04:58:14	cadmio	Hello
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2021-06-29 04:58:25	cadmio	is there a way to draw this arrow https://imgur.com/FdWWqQrl.png in HTML/Css in Linux?
2021-06-29 04:59:13	lopid	what does "in linux" have to do with it?
2021-06-29 04:59:40	cadmio	it's more channel related question
2021-06-29 05:00:11	Aherin	its CSS related ;) i would google "CSS arrow"
2021-06-29 05:00:21	lopid	you want a channel like #html or #css
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2021-06-29 05:24:24	Helmholtz	Is there a reason to not install moreutils?
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2021-06-29 05:34:44	jelly	Helmholtz, maybe you can't spare 200KB of disk space?
2021-06-29 05:35:06	Helmholtz	jelly, that's what I'm talking about. Why is it not installed by default?
2021-06-29 05:35:20	Helmholtz	I guess it interferes with something?
2021-06-29 05:35:34	Helmholtz	Or using its stuff is bad practice?
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2021-06-29 05:36:03	jelly	there's no need to stuff a default installation with every optional utility under the sky
2021-06-29 05:36:12	jelly	if you need it, install it
2021-06-29 05:38:11	koollman	Helmholtz: it is easier to not install it, and you can't expect it to be installed by default on other systems. But if you have a choice, it's a nice little package providing useful tools
2021-06-29 05:38:35	koollman	even just 'ts' and 'errno' are sufficient to justify the install for me :)
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2021-06-29 05:41:45	BCMM	every now and then i have a look at moreutils, go "hey, some of those look really useful", and then completely forget about it before an opportunity to use one of them arises
2021-06-29 05:42:06	koollman	:)
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2021-06-29 05:43:15	jelly	I reimplement ts in perl or whatever every time before remembering something like that exists already
2021-06-29 05:43:27	Helmholtz	Still I don't know why it isn't installed by default on debian/ubuntu/etc
2021-06-29 05:43:42	Kyv	Why would you suddenly become stingy over a small toolset which actually adheres to unix philosophy?
2021-06-29 05:43:43	Helmholtz	more bloated tools are installed anyways
2021-06-29 05:43:58	BCMM	ubuntu: users aren't expected to know what a command line is or does. debian: what does "default" mean?
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2021-06-29 05:44:19	Helmholtz	BCMM, like why watch is intalled but vipe not
2021-06-29 05:45:33	koollman	BCMM: on debian default is pretty well defined, I think
2021-06-29 05:45:48	koollman	it's what you get with the installer if you don't pick anything extra :)
2021-06-29 05:46:00	<--	acid (~acid@user/acid) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-29 05:46:02	koollman	(and there's one level below that, which is minbase)
2021-06-29 05:46:05	BCMM	koollman: people mean anything from "no tasks", to "standard", to "debian desktop"...
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2021-06-29 05:46:45	koollman	BCMM: maybe. at least you can start with 'whatever happens when I pick X and Y on the tasksel choice'
2021-06-29 05:46:58	BCMM	Helmholtz: well, watch is part of procps. there's probably not much appetite for splitting up procps, and definitely none for leaving `ps` out.
2021-06-29 05:47:32	BCMM	(i don't understand *why* watch is in procps, but that's not a debian problem)
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2021-06-29 05:47:54	koollman	because whoever wrote procps wrote watch and put it in the same source tarball ? :)
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2021-06-29 05:48:29	koollman	and debian didn't split it out from the source package into N packages, because it's been there for a long time before that, maybe
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2021-06-29 05:50:16	BCMM	Helmholtz: regarding `procps`, the package that provides watch: it's classed as "important". which, per debian policy, is:
2021-06-29 05:50:19	BCMM	Important programs, including those which one would expect to find on any Unix-like system. If the expectation is that an experienced Unix person who found it missing would say “What on earth is going on, where is foo?”, it must be an important package.
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2021-06-29 05:50:52	koollman	it's a pretty reasonable definition
2021-06-29 05:51:41	BCMM	so, the choices of other distros are a factor here. basically everybody expects to find procps on their new system. rightly or wrongly, you can't say the same thing about moreutils
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2021-06-29 05:52:01	koollman	not just other distro but other unix-like systems
2021-06-29 05:52:13	Helmholtz	Does busybox implement some of moreutils?
2021-06-29 05:52:28	koollman	if you write in any unknown shell 'ps', you do expect a process list of some kind :)
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2021-06-29 05:53:07	koollman	wether it's solaris, netbsd or linux, it's made it into the standard, both official and de-facto :)
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2021-06-29 05:53:17	koollman	Helmholtz: none
2021-06-29 05:53:36	koollman	Helmholtz: why don't you just install moreutils if you want to use it ?
2021-06-29 05:53:41	BCMM	koollman: "of some kind"... i've been meaning to check, is posix just really vague about ps, or did busybox decide to simplify past the standard?
2021-06-29 05:54:02	BCMM	a real procps is one of the few luxuries i like to install on bb-based systems
2021-06-29 05:54:07	Helmholtz	koollman, I did, I was wondering if it is a good idea to utilize its tools in my scripts
2021-06-29 05:54:26	koollman	Helmholtz: if it helps you write your scripts or make them better, sure
2021-06-29 05:54:42	Helmholtz	Does busybox implement *discount* versions of actual GNU tools like grep/awk/sed etc?
2021-06-29 05:55:07	koollman	BCMM: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/ps.html
2021-06-29 05:55:19	BCMM	Helmholtz: those are all in bb
2021-06-29 05:56:18	koollman	Helmholtz: busybox implements their own versions of various common unix tools. GNU also does that
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2021-06-29 05:56:52	BCMM	Helmholtz: but they're not GNU tools, exactly... all of those commands existed before GNU
2021-06-29 05:57:03	Reventlov	Hey. What's the best way to share a directory between the host and guest in qemu ? I tried using 9p but it seems with qemu running as non-root, the guest cannot write in the folder
2021-06-29 05:57:09	BCMM	and the gnu versions include a bunch of non-standard extensions
2021-06-29 05:57:22	koollman	BCMM: to be fair, they all do :)
2021-06-29 05:57:24	BCMM	Reventlov: host and guest are both linux?
2021-06-29 05:57:35	Reventlov	yes
2021-06-29 05:57:40	koollman	the basis for the standard is to find the minimum common set everyone agreed on at the time :)
2021-06-29 05:57:43	<--	acid (~acid@user/acid) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-29 05:57:54	koollman	but the tools diverged before the standards and before gnu :)
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2021-06-29 05:58:21	BCMM	fair enough, but gnu tends to be more enthusiastic than some about adding features
2021-06-29 05:58:29	freeman_h	hi guys i want to set a cron job to run at 23:58 UTC time. my server time is GMT do i need ot change my server time to UTC?
2021-06-29 05:58:35	koollman	hp-ux and sun and bsd had different ideas about what should sed or grep or whatever do
2021-06-29 05:58:38	Reventlov	right now I'm using fsdev local,security=mapped, but… even root in the guest cannot write in the mounted folder.
2021-06-29 05:58:45	BCMM	but my point on extensions is that a minimal grep isn't a "discount" version of gnu grep
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2021-06-29 05:59:11	koollman	and, sure, gnu really had strong opinions about extending tools and having long arguments. And supporting null-ended input, which is their main point over anything else
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2021-06-29 06:05:27	BCMM	Helmholtz: it's not just GNU stuff, either. busybox even has somewhat limited clones of commands from things like iproute2 and util-linux
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2021-06-29 06:05:39	Helmholtz	thanks
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2021-06-29 06:07:15	jelly	\0 as delimiter for piping stdin/stdout is very nice to have.  --long-options are meh
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2021-06-29 06:08:30	jelly	freeman_h, GMT and UTC are almost the same; the safe thing to do would indeed be to set global timezone settings to UTC and restart cron service
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2021-06-29 06:09:48	Helmholtz	is there a clean way to convert stdout to file of the next command in pipe?
2021-06-29 06:10:03	Helmholtz	sorry its -
2021-06-29 06:10:21	freeman_h	jelly, whats the command to set the globel timezome?
2021-06-29 06:10:57	jelly	freeman_h, oof, the optimal way to set it is very distro-dependent
2021-06-29 06:10:58	Helmholtz	again, - works but some tools consider it to be a switch
2021-06-29 06:11:21	Helmholtz	echo "{"marco": "polo"}" | jq - works.
2021-06-29 06:11:27	freeman_h	jelly, ubuntu 20
2021-06-29 06:11:35	Helmholtz	but what if jq is my_script and - is reserved for switches?
2021-06-29 06:12:51	BCMM	freeman_h: dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
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2021-06-29 06:13:38	geirha	Helmholtz: You can sometimes get away with passing /dev/stdin as filename if the command is unconventional and doesn't treat - to mean "read stdin" or "write to stdout"
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2021-06-29 06:14:13	BCMM	Helmholtz: - as meaning standard input is simply a convention that a lot of different commands understand
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2021-06-29 06:14:28	Reventlov	(so any idea about this qemu thing ?)
2021-06-29 06:14:28	BCMM	not, like, a thing the shell does, like piping or something
2021-06-29 06:14:31	freeman_h	BCMM, from the list i am not sure which one will is UTC
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2021-06-29 06:15:06	jelly	freeman_h, None of the above -> UTC
2021-06-29 06:15:11	BCMM	freeman_h: "none of the above", on Debian at least
2021-06-29 06:15:19	BCMM	assuming you're looking at a list of continents
2021-06-29 06:15:50	jelly	(same on ubuntu 18.04, I can't be bothered to boot the 20.04 machine right now ;-)
2021-06-29 06:16:08	jelly	(and I don't have a 20.10 at all)
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2021-06-29 06:16:47	BCMM	(ok, i vaguely understand why UTC and GMT both exist, but what on earth is the difference between UTC and Zulu, or GMT and GMT+0?)
2021-06-29 06:17:44	jelly	ls -la /usr/share/zoneinfo will tell you some are symlinks and therefore exactly the same
2021-06-29 06:17:44	PaulFertser	BCMM: GMT doesn't really exist, this word has no well-defined meaning so better to avoid using it altogether.
2021-06-29 06:18:15	akik	doesn't really exist?
2021-06-29 06:18:27	akik	way to go
2021-06-29 06:18:27	BCMM	jelly: thanks
2021-06-29 06:18:30	PaulFertser	akik: as a well-defined term that always means something particular.
2021-06-29 06:18:56	PaulFertser	akik: British still use it but they also use inches and pounds and other weird things.
2021-06-29 06:18:57	lopid	sure it does. General Miscellaneous Term
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2021-06-29 06:19:05	BCMM	jelly: (or ls -l /usr/share/zoneinfo/Etc/ rather)
2021-06-29 06:19:17	akik	PaulFertser: i use it always when talking about timezone differences
2021-06-29 06:19:48	akik	PaulFertser: can you link me to an article which says gmt is not in use any more?
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2021-06-29 06:21:23	swarfega	gmt is definitely in use
2021-06-29 06:21:26	swarfega	UK uses it
2021-06-29 06:22:02	PaulFertser	akik: I'm afraid it's incorrect unless you mean GMT timezone specifically in something like "I'm on GMT so we're three hours apart atm" Yeah, reading https://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html#GMT is really convincing IMHO
2021-06-29 06:22:15	PaulFertser	swarfega: as a timezone but not as a time reference.
2021-06-29 06:22:17	swarfega	PaulFertser: we're more metric now but some things are still old measure
2021-06-29 06:22:39	swarfega	are you british PaulFertser?
2021-06-29 06:23:14	PaulFertser	swarfega: no
2021-06-29 06:23:32	swarfega	I am :D
2021-06-29 06:23:56	lopid	congrats
2021-06-29 06:24:14	swarfega	thanks man
2021-06-29 06:24:29	PaulFertser	swarfega: if you're using it as a time reference it means you're using it wrong. Of course I saw how BBC shows their schedules with something like GMT+6 but that's utterly confusing. How am I even supposed to know if GMT includes DST today or not?
2021-06-29 06:24:31	lopid	or woman or whatever the hell these days
2021-06-29 06:24:46	swarfega	so what should i be using?
2021-06-29 06:24:52	<--	theproffesor (~theproffe@user/theproffesor) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-29 06:25:01	PaulFertser	swarfega: UTC is well-defined and
2021-06-29 06:25:11	PaulFertser	properly understood everywhere
2021-06-29 06:25:22	akik	PaulFertser: does utc show dst time differences any clearer?
2021-06-29 06:25:26	swarfega	UTC is not very well known or understood in the UK
2021-06-29 06:25:37	PaulFertser	akik: sure, as you just know UTC never has DST included :)
2021-06-29 06:25:57	swarfega	we use GMT in the winter and BST in the summer
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2021-06-29 06:26:21	BCMM	PaulFertser: ... i'm sorry, but that's just a matter of, like, knowing what a time zone is
2021-06-29 06:26:21	akik	PaulFertser: so how do you present finnish time in utc (gmt+2 during rest of the year, gmt+3 during summer)
2021-06-29 06:26:24	lopid	one person's confusion over a simple term does not mean an entire country is wrong
2021-06-29 06:26:30	p0g0	Doug Adams: "Time is an illusion, lunchtime, doubly so."
2021-06-29 06:26:31	PaulFertser	swarfega: that ucolick website is golden, I recommend you check that timescales articles even if just for the curiousity
2021-06-29 06:26:36	p0g0	Hi PaulFertser
2021-06-29 06:26:37	BCMM	PaulFertser: GMT is just a time zone. during the summer, we are not on GMT
2021-06-29 06:26:47	swarfega	you cant change a whole country
2021-06-29 06:27:29	PaulFertser	akik: I'd just say finns are at UTC+2 when DST is not in effect. Pretty-well defined.
2021-06-29 06:27:34	BCMM	you could have this exact same confusion about literally any place that uses DST...
2021-06-29 06:27:34	PaulFertser	p0g0: hey, nice to meet you again!
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2021-06-29 06:27:52	PaulFertser	BCMM: yes, why would anyone use a timezone for a reference and not a timescale?
2021-06-29 06:28:01	BCMM	what are you even talking about?
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2021-06-29 06:28:14	swarfega	we need to use spacetime as a referance
2021-06-29 06:28:26	lopid	stardates
2021-06-29 06:28:30	swarfega	!
2021-06-29 06:28:35	akik	es
2021-06-29 06:28:51	PaulFertser	BCMM: I suggest to avoid using GMT when talking about timescales altogether. And use UTC instead, as that the standard way agreed upon by all the astronomers (including those from the UK).
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2021-06-29 06:29:22	p0g0	Now there's a notion, local time being assessed by your Earth Centered Earth Focussed geolocation... no more timezones, just a precise time of day at your exact locale.
2021-06-29 06:29:26	swarfega	right because everyone understands UTC
2021-06-29 06:29:32	BCMM	ok, but you seem to be backing up that suggestion but deliberately not knowing what a time zone is
2021-06-29 06:29:36	BCMM	^by
2021-06-29 06:30:00	BCMM	p0g0: we did in the UK right up until the railways made it impractical
2021-06-29 06:30:11	<--	ignis (~ignisf@user/ignis) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-29 06:30:14	swarfega	^
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2021-06-29 06:30:32	p0g0	BCMM, so the person to the esat of you by a few meters has a different time setting on their watch than you do?
2021-06-29 06:30:33	PaulFertser	BCMM: I understand what a timezone is, and I suggest to use GMT only when meaning the timezone, and not to use any offsets from it.
2021-06-29 06:30:37	p0g0	*east
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2021-06-29 06:31:25	BCMM	p0g0: i mean, to within the accuracy with which time could be easily measured then? it's entirely possible
2021-06-29 06:31:41	freeman_h	is this cron script correct? 58 23 * * * /usr/bin/python3 -u /var/volume-bot/cron.py >/dev/null 2>&1 i want it to run the python script everyday at 11:58PM
2021-06-29 06:31:45	BCMM	but the next town just a few miles away would genuinely be on a different time
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2021-06-29 06:32:11	p0g0	BCMM, GMT has a history, running back to the early construction of time keeping devices.  It has lost that meaning in the modern context.
2021-06-29 06:32:12	swarfega	BCMM: it would be very small difference but yes it would be different
2021-06-29 06:32:12	lopid	freeman_h, if it's a user cron job, yes
2021-06-29 06:32:31	BCMM	p0g0: ok?
2021-06-29 06:32:52	akik	no it hasn't lost its meaning
2021-06-29 06:32:58	akik	are you on drugs?
2021-06-29 06:33:23	PaulFertser	akik: please check https://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html#GMT , this has both the history and the clarifications from the astronomers
2021-06-29 06:33:26	CommunistWolf	just use %s everywhere
2021-06-29 06:33:35	BCMM	p0g0: what i'm saying is that the use of Greenwich time for clocks outside of london was pioneered by railway stations, which at one point would have had clocks showing a different time from the rest of the town
2021-06-29 06:33:50	p0g0	BCMM, when I first moved here, my neighbors all had a local time, whatever their clocks said was the time, usually about 1.5 hours wrong from EST.
2021-06-29 06:34:03	CommunistWolf	people can make any local adjustments they like after the fact, but comparisons suddenly become globally meaningful
2021-06-29 06:34:33	BCMM	p0g0: as in, they actually used local mean time for practical day-to-day use?
2021-06-29 06:34:50	p0g0	BCMM, iirc, the Ukraine (I may well have that wrong) runs all the federal clocks off the phase of their electrical grid, which has been losing congruity with "real time" for years...
2021-06-29 06:35:06	geirha	freeman_h: what's the point of using -u when you redirect all output to /dev/null anyway?
2021-06-29 06:35:08	p0g0	So all the trains clocks are not set to any standard outside the nation.
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2021-06-29 06:35:17	BCMM	p0g0: where was this? i thought people stopped using literal local time in the 19th century
2021-06-29 06:35:41	geirha	freeman_h: And whether the crontab line is correct depends on which file you put it in
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2021-06-29 06:36:13	p0g0	BCMM, well, If I was asked to come help put up hay or such, they would ask me what time I would show up to help, and they'd then say, OK that is xx.yy time for us, see you then.
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2021-06-29 06:36:18	freeman_h	geirha, crontab -e
2021-06-29 06:36:45	geirha	right, then the format looks correct. Should run two minutes before midnight each night
2021-06-29 06:36:59	BCMM	p0g0: huh, had no idea it persisted so long (for practical purposes, that is)
2021-06-29 06:37:11	p0g0	BCMM, well, antedeluvian kinda describes this place.  Eastern Kentucky.  The Elizabethan accents were better preserved here than in England...
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2021-06-29 06:37:56	p0g0	That family, the Cables, had a marvelous lilting speech.  Modern culture has wiped that out tho.
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2021-06-29 06:38:30	BCMM	(i say "for practical purposes" because Christ Church college still marks "Oxford time" for tradition's sake)
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2021-06-29 06:38:59	freeman_h	geirha, cheers
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2021-06-29 06:41:15	Kyv	its not THE Ukraine
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2021-06-29 06:43:43	p0g0	OK, sorry to offend.
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2021-06-29 06:44:47	Kyv	no need to be sorry
2021-06-29 06:44:51	BCMM	p0g0: a bunch of countries tweak the power frequency on purpose to keep clocks true
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2021-06-29 06:45:09	BCMM	as in, if it's been slightly slow for half the day, they'll speed it up on purpose
2021-06-29 06:45:46	BCMM	apparently the USA wants to stop doing it, but has found that too many people are still using utility-frequency clocks
2021-06-29 06:47:07	p0g0	BCMM, I got that story from a local, (abc), and in that discussion I was told that the nation did not in fact try to spin up the phase rate to repair the time differences.  Word of mouth stuff, and I have never seen it myself.
2021-06-29 06:47:41	-->	simbaclaws (~root@2001:982:4b18:1:eb18:4a40:b20e:301e) has joined #linux
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2021-06-29 06:47:59	BCMM	does seem like a bad idea to use powerline clocks for important things in a country where frequency drift is not gauranteed to be compensated
2021-06-29 06:49:06	BCMM	(which is a perfectly valid way to run a grid, since compensating does decrease the overall accuracy of the frequency, if you consider stability rather than average)
2021-06-29 06:49:58	p0g0	Yeah, it does.  But little kingdoms, bureaucracies, weak central governments all happen.
2021-06-29 06:50:04	-->	Adoi (~Adoi@user/adoi) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 06:51:05	Adoi	hello, pgp drives me mad. I am sending a file encrypted to another device, and when I enter the passphrase there, it is rejected as "bad passphrase". again and again.
2021-06-29 06:51:18	Adoi	and the passphrase IS correct
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2021-06-29 06:53:04	lopid	different keyboard settings making. eg, £ be a #?
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2021-06-29 06:53:37	Adoi	lopid, I am using the same keyboard language
2021-06-29 06:53:49	Adoi	layout, i mean
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2021-06-29 06:54:02	lopid	is that a "no, i've checked"?
2021-06-29 06:54:08	Adoi	yes
2021-06-29 06:54:30	lopid	when you send the file back to the original device, can you decrypt it?
2021-06-29 06:55:19	Adoi	lopid, I cant try it, as it is decrypted without entering a password there
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2021-06-29 06:56:19	lopid	i suppose that answers my next question of whether the passphrase is for access to the local private key, or for the encrypted file itself
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2021-06-29 06:59:40	Adoi	lopid, yes, the file itself is encrypted
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2021-06-29 07:00:07	Kyv	Adoi, that is not the question it answers.
2021-06-29 07:00:10	PaulFertser	Adoi: the question is how exactly is it encrypted. Probably you're just using your private key to encrypt it, not the passphrase.
2021-06-29 07:00:35	Adoi	I select "use passphrase", enter it twice and it is encrpyted
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2021-06-29 07:01:15	Adoi	the pw is not for the local private key
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2021-06-29 07:01:45	Adoi	I am not blind or something
2021-06-29 07:01:59	PaulFertser	Adoi: so what gpg command exactly are you using to encrypt the file?
2021-06-29 07:02:09	lopid	so you'd have the same problem using a new, extremely simple passphrase?
2021-06-29 07:02:10	Adoi	I use the GUI
2021-06-29 07:02:27	Adoi	lopid I havent tried with an extremely simple one
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2021-06-29 07:04:24	lopid	also, does it work when you don't use a passphrase?
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2021-06-29 07:06:54	Adoi	what do you refer to? file transfer? yes
2021-06-29 07:07:18	lopid	decryption
2021-06-29 07:07:25	Adoi	are you trolling?
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2021-06-29 07:11:01	Adoi	there have always been trolls here, but many more real helpers. now it changed to the opposite
2021-06-29 07:11:08	Adoi	fora while
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2021-06-29 07:13:23	Kyv	If they would only let you be to have your problem in peace.
2021-06-29 07:13:39	lopid	so frustrated they had to leave twice
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2021-06-29 07:18:15	dviola	hi
2021-06-29 07:18:33	dviola	I'm getting some I/O errors while reading a large file on my system
2021-06-29 07:18:37	-->	fakuve (~fakuve@92.40.177.61.threembb.co.uk) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 07:18:49	dviola	could it be the SSD went bad or a bad cable maybe?
2021-06-29 07:19:11	dviola	[  534.329934] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 165626232 op 0x0:(READ) flags 0x0 phys_seg 1 prio class 0
2021-06-29 07:19:30	Adoi	even simple passwords get rejected. is any kind of real help possible with it?
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2021-06-29 07:23:08	dviola	bbl
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2021-06-29 07:25:11	Helmholtz	difference between </dev/null fzf and echo " | fzf ?
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2021-06-29 07:26:09	ananke	Helmholtz: try using actual full sentence
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2021-06-29 07:28:04	BCMM	Helmholtz: i mean one of those is a syntax error. should i read that as echo "" instead of echo "?
2021-06-29 07:28:19	geirha	Helmholtz: former provides zero bytes as input for fzf, latter provides one byte (a newline) as input
2021-06-29 07:28:23	BCMM	Helmholtz: assuming yes, one of those sends *nothing* to fzf and one of them sends a newline
2021-06-29 07:28:33	fakuve74	hey how are you. Im behind an annoying library firewall , does anyone recomend me how to download videos from youtube ? tor is not workimg unfortunatelly and github is also blocked for some reason
2021-06-29 07:29:03	fakuve74	how can i download stuff from github without been able to use github?
2021-06-29 07:29:23	fakuve74	Or shall I hire a cheap vpn?
2021-06-29 07:29:48	<--	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-29 07:29:57	BCMM	fakuve74: first of all, it's entirely possible that there *is* no solution. it's not entirely unusual for a "firewall" like that to actually be an HTTP proxy, and for the clients to have no actual route to the internet
2021-06-29 07:30:04	BCMM	if the machine is intended just for web browsing
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2021-06-29 07:30:38	Helmholtz	BCMM, geirha thanks
2021-06-29 07:30:39	BCMM	oh, you're running your own machine on this network, right? unlikely to be that thing, then
2021-06-29 07:30:48	-->	Brottweiler (~brott@user/brottweiler) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 07:31:09	Helmholtz	 echo " | fzf, this sends \n to stdin of fzf right?
2021-06-29 07:31:11	fakuve74	BCMM: well if I  route all the traffic through a server and this server , serves me the connections in allowed ports
2021-06-29 07:31:22	Helmholtz	I don't get how `</dev/null fzf` works
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2021-06-29 07:31:40	Helmholtz	It's not piped
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2021-06-29 07:31:52	geirha	the shell opens /dev/null for reading and sets it as fd 0 for fzf
2021-06-29 07:31:53	fakuve74	but it queries the internet in the non allowed ports ? that is the actual functioning of a VPN innit?
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2021-06-29 07:32:17	geirha	when fzf tries to read stdin, it immedietly hits EOF
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2021-06-29 07:33:18	BCMM	fakuve74: also, have you considered the potential consequences of circumventing the restrictions? i mean, the github thing sounds like it might be in the realm of just getting stuff working without having to bother IT, but blocking youtube might be a quite deliberate measure to conserve bandwidth
2021-06-29 07:34:09	BCMM	and downloading videos might be the kind of usage that gets noticed. obviously, i don't know how the institution you're dealing with will react; just saying it's worth considering
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2021-06-29 07:34:53	autopsy	You can alsways masquerade using iptables.
2021-06-29 07:35:24	BCMM	fakuve74: anyway, do you have a server of your own (outside the protected network) you can contact?
2021-06-29 07:35:30	fakuve74	BCMM well this is a uni , there are IT departments , if you are telling me that is reasonable to block pages like stackoverflow , or github , in a place where 4g connectivity is not available...
2021-06-29 07:35:33	<--	fpombal (~fpombal@2001:818:d95d:a500:c707:f4e5:d1f1:783b) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-06-29 07:35:42	BCMM	fakuve74: i'm not saying it's reasonable. not agreeing with them
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2021-06-29 07:36:11	fakuve74	BCMM: are they gonna arrest me? there are no IT team right now in the campus lol
2021-06-29 07:36:16	BCMM	fakuve74: i'm just saying, be aware of how it might be perceived
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2021-06-29 07:36:54	fakuve74	I dont think that is realistic , they are not checking this things for sure
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2021-06-29 07:36:59	fakuve74	anyways
2021-06-29 07:37:00	ananke	fakuve74: don't be an idiot. with that in mind, you do likely sign acceptable use policy agreements with them, and those state possible outcomes
2021-06-29 07:37:00	BCMM	look, in most places you can just get away with whatever. in some places, some guy who doesn't know *anything* about computers is going to hear about somebody "hacking" the network, and completely flip
2021-06-29 07:37:30	fakuve74	lol
2021-06-29 07:37:44	fakuve74	ok any solutions?
2021-06-29 07:37:53	ananke	yes, move
2021-06-29 07:37:59	fakuve74	or are we gonna refer to the constitution?
2021-06-29 07:38:10	ananke	this isn't a technical issue
2021-06-29 07:38:16	fakuve74	ok
2021-06-29 07:38:18	fakuve74	bye
2021-06-29 07:38:24	BCMM	fakuve74: do you already have a server you control outside of the firewalled network? wasn't sure, from your previous comment
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2021-06-29 07:38:35	fakuve74	read the message
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2021-06-29 07:38:43	fakuve74	i am sibngle handed
2021-06-29 07:38:54	fakuve74	not gonna write again
2021-06-29 07:38:58	BCMM	i read this line and i did not understand it [12:31:11] <fakuve74> BCMM: well if I  route all the traffic through a server and this server , serves me the connections in allowed ports
2021-06-29 07:39:22	fakuve74	the first messsage explains my situation that is not the first message
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2021-06-29 07:39:41	ananke	this is a good example a choosing beggar
2021-06-29 07:40:14	hassoon	nm-tray runs in my i3bar , but it has no icon, how to retrieve its icon ?
2021-06-29 07:40:35	BCMM	fakuve74: look, i just want to clarify something here: i'm not being unhelpful because of the network policy thing. i consider it your responsibility, not mine, to work out what's de-facto acceptable in your institution. i am being unhelpful because you are being difficult to help.
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2021-06-29 07:41:29	autopsy	What math would be involved in taking this as input : 192.168.1.1 and printing out like 192.168.1.0/32
2021-06-29 07:41:49	autopsy	Or 192.168.2.1 and printing out like 192.168.2.0/24
2021-06-29 07:41:55	<--	backleet (~backleet@user/backleet) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-29 07:42:18	geirha	I don't see a pattern there
2021-06-29 07:42:23	ananke	autopsy: magic. first example makes no sense
2021-06-29 07:42:37	autopsy	To print out what it is subnet range wise.
2021-06-29 07:42:44	autopsy	The address is input.
2021-06-29 07:42:48	geirha	so you meant /24 on both examples?
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2021-06-29 07:42:54	ananke	autopsy: you want CIDR notation for which there is no input
2021-06-29 07:42:55	BCMM	autopsy: you can't work out the correct subnet just from the IP address
2021-06-29 07:42:56	autopsy	I have some division in mind divide by 2.
2021-06-29 07:43:12	fakuve74	BCMM: im writting single handed , im asking for a technical solution not a legal one , seems that you an ananke are a bit bored today and wanna play around , dont waste my time please , if you are not able to help then dont answer
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2021-06-29 07:43:33	autopsy	BCMM, I need the network mask too right?
2021-06-29 07:43:44	ananke	autopsy: how does division come into play here?
2021-06-29 07:43:49	fakuve74	mr ananke even called me idiot , so mind your vocabulary ok?
2021-06-29 07:43:55	BCMM	autopsy: yup. e.g. if you see an IP address like 192.168.1.1, you don't know whether 192.168.2.1 is also a valid address on this same network
2021-06-29 07:44:04	ananke	fakuve74: I didn't, but now I see I should have
2021-06-29 07:45:06	autopsy	ananke, $(($INPUT / 2)) -le 32 ]] then printf "%s\" "This address is a single host"
2021-06-29 07:45:07	BCMM	fakuve74: i told you, i *don't care* about the legal thing. i simply mentioned that you should consider it, and that i will not be considering it.
2021-06-29 07:45:20	BCMM	you're the one who's arguing about that instead of answering *technical* questions
2021-06-29 07:45:41	autopsy	Ok fuck I'm lost as to where to start except what I havwe.
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2021-06-29 07:46:54	autopsy	[04:41:12] <twkm> bit masking.  yes dividing by 2 once you convert to a pure number.
2021-06-29 07:47:01	autopsy	See yeah I was right.
2021-06-29 07:47:19	fakuve74	BCMM: this is #linux , is not #legaladvice nor #itethics
2021-06-29 07:47:20	ananke	mmkay, whatever you say
2021-06-29 07:47:39	omegatron	if your library employs a firewall/proxy with very strict rules and maybe even deep packet inspection to disallow anything but simple web browsing, there is not much you can do .. I guess they have their reasons to disallow youtube et al.
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2021-06-29 07:48:08	BCMM	fakuve74: i do not want to have a conversation with you about that.
2021-06-29 07:48:24	-->	oldPeanut (~oldPeanut@200116b826df9c0030929efffedd8522.dip.versatel-1u1.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 07:48:25	-->	anon (~anon@BSN-142-116-203.dynamic.siol.net) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 07:49:06	BCMM	anyway, i'm AFK now. sorry we didn't have time to get in to the technical side of it.
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2021-06-29 07:49:34	fakuve74	too many wasted lines in  here mate
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2021-06-29 07:50:30	omegatron	they surely will block anything that looks like Tor/VPN and even if you would manage to set up your own external server somewhere, that would forward youtube videos to you as plain http, they might notice soon, because of the large amount of data and simply block your external server
2021-06-29 07:50:37	<--	backleet (~backleet@user/backleet) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-29 07:51:36	ananke	autopsy: that makes absolutely no sense. not only you expect network size out of thin air, you also seem to think that there's some magical formula to derive that. it's like a modern example of alchemy
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2021-06-29 07:52:13	autopsy	ananke, https://paste.centos.org/view/415a01ef
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2021-06-29 07:53:03	ananke	autopsy: aaand?
2021-06-29 07:53:07	autopsy	if [[ $(($FOURTH / 32)) -le 8 ]]; then
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2021-06-29 07:53:27	omegatron	ananke:  .. it's gone!   =D
2021-06-29 07:53:31	autopsy	I just neeed help with the math and using the netwmask.\
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2021-06-29 07:54:20	ananke	autopsy: for starters, the rest of your code is already bogus. broadcast addresses can end in more than just '255'
2021-06-29 07:54:33	-->	Tapuz (~Tapuz@andrewyu.org) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 07:54:35	ananke	autopsy: but you have NO netmask as input
2021-06-29 07:54:39	autopsy	Yeah.
2021-06-29 07:54:47	autopsy	I know its bogus I just started it.
2021-06-29 07:54:56	autopsy	I need a netmask as input.
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2021-06-29 07:55:37	ananke	seems you really need to learn some basics on network addressing
2021-06-29 07:55:47	autopsy	Ok I got INPUT="$1 $2"
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2021-06-29 07:56:01	autopsy	The first will be the address the second will be the netmask.
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2021-06-29 07:56:52	autopsy	Now I have ADDRESS=$1; NETMASK=$2;
2021-06-29 07:57:17	autopsy	So with the netmask, I just do some octal to decimal math .
2021-06-29 07:57:32	autopsy	Since we are dealing with octets.
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2021-06-29 07:58:38	ananke	uhmm, that's just so wrong. it's not octal to decimal, octets refers to groupings
2021-06-29 07:59:10	autopsy	octets is still in octal.
2021-06-29 07:59:17	ananke	autopsy: seriously, go read a few articles on how network addressing works, because all you're doing is guessing, and you seem to be getting it wrong
2021-06-29 07:59:25	autopsy	No.
2021-06-29 07:59:29	autopsy	Its octal.
2021-06-29 07:59:37	 *	ananke facepalms
2021-06-29 07:59:49	autopsy	256 is th ehighest in 3 bits you can have in 8 bits to have an octal 256
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2021-06-29 08:01:07	ananke	yes, 2^8. binary
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2021-06-29 08:01:30	autopsy	https://paste.centos.org/view/6b646c9c
2021-06-29 08:01:35	ananke	and network masking happens in binary
2021-06-29 08:01:42	autopsy	Ok well.
2021-06-29 08:01:50	autopsy	See I know theres a way to do this.
2021-06-29 08:02:00	<--	hrtk (~hritik@223.226.188.53) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-29 08:02:03	autopsy	Math using octal and binary and converting to decimal and back.
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2021-06-29 08:03:44	autopsy	Its division by two.
2021-06-29 08:04:09	ananke	which means nothing
2021-06-29 08:04:19	-->	BluesKaj (~kaj@user/blueskaj) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 08:04:30	BluesKaj	Hi all
2021-06-29 08:04:42	ananke	go apply that to 192.168.1.4 and 192.168.1.5, and deduce anything out of it
2021-06-29 08:05:01	autopsy	https://paste.centos.org/view/a0580988
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2021-06-29 08:06:09	autopsy	Ok where I do the address is divisible by 32, I need to have 255 actually printf on how many times it divides into 255
2021-06-29 08:06:13	autopsy	255 / 32
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2021-06-29 08:06:16	autopsy	= what
2021-06-29 08:06:50	<--	fakuve74 (~fakuve@158.223.165.26) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-29 08:06:53	peetaur	why are you dividing addresses?
2021-06-29 08:07:25	autopsy	To see if it is dividing into it a total of 8 or more times its a 32
2021-06-29 08:07:37	autopsy	Less than 8 and its 7 is a 24
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2021-06-29 08:07:46	autopsy	Less than that is a 16 if its 6
2021-06-29 08:07:53	<--	eu (~eu@user/ansible) has left #linux
2021-06-29 08:07:56	autopsy	Ok yeah IM GETTING IT
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2021-06-29 08:10:21	ananke	autopsy: and what is that '24' and '6' representing? alignment of stars?
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2021-06-29 08:10:44	omegatron	calendar week ..  -_-
2021-06-29 08:11:22	ananke	omegatron: ahh, you're right. week when a given IP was provisioned!
2021-06-29 08:11:33	-->	ionface (~ionface@user/ionface) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 08:12:03	omegatron	.. by your local nice ISP ..
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2021-06-29 08:13:13	aaro	we all know that math is ruled by astrology
2021-06-29 08:13:17	dviola	just started getting some I/O errors on my main SSD, tried replacing the SATA cables, same thing
2021-06-29 08:13:19	backleet_	is it possible to set up SSL on my ZNC server if I don't have a domain name? Let's encrypt asks for domain name.
2021-06-29 08:13:25	dviola	it happens when I read a large file
2021-06-29 08:13:33	dviola	when i sha256sum on the file
2021-06-29 08:13:57	dviola	I didn't know SSDs die this easily
2021-06-29 08:14:03	PaulFertser	dviola: check smartctl -a
2021-06-29 08:14:24	slackadelic	backleet_: as far as I know Let'sEncrypt requires a domain name
2021-06-29 08:14:48	dviola	slackadelic: it says the device passed the tests
2021-06-29 08:14:52	PaulFertser	Why would you want a CA-issued cert without a domain name?
2021-06-29 08:14:55	dviola	no wonder I've been getting hangs
2021-06-29 08:15:04	autopsy	Do smartctl --test --extended-long
2021-06-29 08:15:11	ananke	dviola: 'that easily'? they're electronics, they can die
2021-06-29 08:15:14	backleet_	slackadelic: PaulFertser can I just use self signed cert for encryption?
2021-06-29 08:15:17	PaulFertser	dviola: there must be some detailed report about all the parameters it monitors.
2021-06-29 08:15:26	PaulFertser	backleet_: for encryption of what?
2021-06-29 08:15:51	dviola	ananke: right, but I was under the impression they lasted longer than most hdds
2021-06-29 08:15:54	backleet_	PaulFertser: yeah, so passwords between me and ZNC server are encrypted?
2021-06-29 08:16:05	-->	fakuve (~fakuve@158.223.165.26) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 08:16:07	PaulFertser	backleet_: sure, you can use a self-signed one, why not.
2021-06-29 08:16:25	dviola	ananke: I'm generalizing perhaps
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2021-06-29 08:16:57	varaindemian	is there a command to open chromium-browser but not in headless mode?
2021-06-29 08:17:01	-->	Ringtailed-Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:51c7:3c29:e599:328b) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 08:17:27	varaindemian	so that  I can gracefully close it with `wmctrl -c` later?
2021-06-29 08:18:20	backleet_	PaulFertser: are messages also encrypted when using directly liberachat?
2021-06-29 08:18:47	PaulFertser	backleet_: if you're using TLS between your IRC client and ZNC then everything on that link is encrypted.
2021-06-29 08:18:53	PaulFertser	(if that's what you ask)
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2021-06-29 08:19:44	onelegend	some people use OTR for end to end encryption
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2021-06-29 08:20:06	dviola	http://ix.io/3rtb
2021-06-29 08:20:07	ananke	dviola: and that they do, on _average_. outliers will exist, see bathtub curve too
2021-06-29 08:20:15	dviola	some of the output from smartctl
2021-06-29 08:21:43	BCMM	dviola: SSDs and HDDs both randomly fail for, like, no good reason
2021-06-29 08:21:58	dviola	noted, thanks
2021-06-29 08:22:15	BCMM	dviola: SSDs have an additional problem that HDDs don't really have, where they pretty much inevitably fail after a certain number of writes
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2021-06-29 08:22:44	BCMM	(because the individual flash cells have a limited number of write cycles, and you can only hide that with wear-leveling for so long)
2021-06-29 08:23:44	BCMM	i guess what i'm saying is that which of them lasts longer is quite dependent on workload (as well as environment, etc.)
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2021-06-29 08:24:44	ananke	in this particular case, the estimated life left is at 96%, and that's after 1 year of use.
2021-06-29 08:25:14	ananke	so no, wear level is nowhere near of what reasonable human being would be worried about (in this case)
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2021-06-29 08:27:54	dviola	thanks y'all
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2021-06-29 08:28:25	ananke	dviola: time to exercise warranty
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2021-06-29 08:28:48	dviola	ananke: yeah, I'll check that out.
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2021-06-29 08:29:42	autopsy	smartctl
2021-06-29 08:29:50	Kyv	and you still have to wipe down the equipment when done
2021-06-29 08:29:54	autopsy	hdparm --write-sector <sector>
2021-06-29 08:31:51	dviola	I got this machine in 2018, very unlikely that I still have any warranty left
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2021-06-29 08:34:15	dviola	just had a thinkpad motherboard die on me recently though, I wonder if it's just coincidence
2021-06-29 08:34:22	dviola	s/though/too/
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2021-06-29 08:36:06	Kyv	what do you hypothesize?
2021-06-29 08:36:25	ananke	solar flares!
2021-06-29 08:36:29	jelly	lack of cake
2021-06-29 08:37:16	dviola	haha
2021-06-29 08:38:04	Kyv	whatever it is, its certainly vaporous and letting itself in through the mains
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2021-06-29 08:40:05	swarfega	user error
2021-06-29 08:40:37	Helmholtz	is there a way to open vimdiff when `diff -r this/ that/` shows difference for a file?
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2021-06-29 08:42:12	varaindemian	how can I open a new window give it a name = "Test1" and then kill it later with wmctrl. Currently experimenting with this: `chromium-browser --new-window https://facebook.com w & sleep 3 mctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "Test1"`
2021-06-29 08:42:29	varaindemian	and then in a new termianl `wmctrl -c "Test1"` doesn't work
2021-06-29 08:42:53	varaindemian	also `wmctrl -l` doesn't seem to give my window the name I want e.g. "Test1"
2021-06-29 08:43:02	b0rf	Lol one time I had a thinkpad motherboard die randomly but it was because i smashed it
2021-06-29 08:43:30	<--	Thedarkb-Desktop (~beno@2001:bb6:b404:188f:5494:61f9:38d5:fa86) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-06-29 08:45:21	jiffe	wrt https://pb.jiffe.com/6us838Mpx9GUhDzRd73wdm I have a bash script which sets an alias for curl to curl -k, but for some reason it doesn't seem to have an effect, I issue 2 curl statements, one without -k (implied by the alias) and one with an explicit -k and only the second one is working
2021-06-29 08:45:57	<--	Cienisty (cloak@user/cienisty) has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-06-29 08:46:14	varaindemian	anyone can help?
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2021-06-29 08:49:41	peetaur	Helmholtz: x() { if ! diff "$1" "$2"; then vimdiff "$1" "$2"; fi; }
2021-06-29 08:50:21	frostwork	varaindemian, xdotool should help for both setting the window name and for finding/killing the pid of the window
2021-06-29 08:51:22	frostwork	I would assume that not every program wants its window name to be overridden from a 3rd party program, never tested that though
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2021-06-29 08:56:32	TomyWork	varaindemian, if you're trying to automate your browser, there are whole frameworks dedicated to that
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2021-06-29 08:57:26	varaindemian	TomyWork what franeworks? I am trying to make a Flask app that communicates with monitors and sends a link to that monitor
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2021-06-29 08:57:52	TomyWork	google for "chrome webdriver" as a starting point
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2021-06-29 08:58:23	kilobyte_ch	Hello, I have issues with the libcomposite usb gadget OTG functionality. If I use the mass storage and HID mode together it locks up my HID Device. Anyone any Idea if this is the right place to ask or if there is another place? This issue is happening on Raspberry Pi Platform and NXP iMX8MM Platform. I tried to document it here https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/4373
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2021-06-29 08:58:52	TomyWork	varaindemian, flask is python, right? there's a selenium binding for python
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2021-06-29 09:00:06	TomyWork	varaindemian, whether the browsers remain user-interactable while being webdriven, i dont know, maybe? probably? try it :)
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2021-06-29 09:02:23	backleet_	PaulFertser: thanks!
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2021-06-29 09:02:46	PaulFertser	backleet_: :)
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2021-06-29 09:12:04	onelegend	don't M-Discs last really long?
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2021-06-29 09:12:16	onelegend	might just store my shit in an M disc
2021-06-29 09:12:46	onelegend	that thing should outlast civilization, provided that the bluray player still works
2021-06-29 09:13:01	omegatron	which is unlikely ..
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2021-06-29 09:14:03	onelegend	it is unlikely that you know it's unlikely
2021-06-29 09:14:08	omegatron	therefore, you might also hammer your collection of videos as 0 and 1 into some bedrock ..
2021-06-29 09:14:15	onelegend	ok
2021-06-29 09:14:17	onelegend	sure
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2021-06-29 09:17:45	falk689	honestly I can't think of any data I'd willingly want to leave to future archaeologist but I may be too shy for them.
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2021-06-29 09:18:12	falk689	a NAS is enough for my data storage needs, and it dies with civilization
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2021-06-29 09:18:22	falk689	which is a plus
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2021-06-29 09:21:08	omegatron	the bedrock solution might take some time, but ...   https://www.oglaf.com/acrophobia/
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2021-06-29 09:21:58	Bonstra	kilobyte_ch, you can ask on the linux-usb mailing list: http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-usb
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2021-06-29 09:22:48	Bonstra	Also, you should try the sample code from the gadget_hid docs: Documentation/usb/gadget_hid.rst
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2021-06-29 09:34:44	Masklin	Do you need to put 'wait' commands after calling gnu parallel?
2021-06-29 09:35:39	DLange	why don't you try, Masklin?
2021-06-29 09:36:21	autopsy	Try wait just waits until process <pid> has fiunished and existed.
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2021-06-29 09:37:24	Masklin	Right but... hmm
2021-06-29 09:37:37	Masklin	Yeah I don't think I need 'wait' after parallel.
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2021-06-29 09:45:26	HumbleGuy	Hello, can someone help me with dwm? When i resize window using META+H/L, it resizes the windows globally on all tags, how do i make it so it resizes only on a particular tag?
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2021-06-29 09:46:48	kilobyte_ch	Bonstra: thanks, this was what I was looking for!
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2021-06-29 09:48:46	jaafarrc	A while ago, I tried recovering a file a deleted file via photorec/testdisk, and it couldn't find it. Is there any other software I could try?
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2021-06-29 09:49:41	gry	from what fs?
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2021-06-29 09:50:13	jaafarrc	ext4.
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2021-06-29 09:56:39	falk689	if you did all right and testdisk didn't work I'm afraid I'd start finding ways to live on without said file.
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2021-06-29 09:58:53	jaafarrc	What do you mean "did all right?"
2021-06-29 09:58:56	BluesKaj	PhotoRec ignores the file system and goes after the underlying data, or so it ways here https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec
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2021-06-29 09:59:40	falk689	like searched for the proper file types, used right options, tried any method available.
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2021-06-29 10:00:48	BCMM	jaafarrc: have you tried extundelete?
2021-06-29 10:01:02	jaafarrc	BCMM: Nope, just testdisk.
2021-06-29 10:01:03	BCMM	also, was it a file format that photorec can recognise?
2021-06-29 10:01:06	<--	Pickchea (~private@user/pickchea) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-29 10:01:17	jaafarrc	It was a KeePass DB.
2021-06-29 10:01:25	jaafarrc	kdbx, I believe?
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2021-06-29 10:01:45	BCMM	the thing with photorec is that, as previously mentioned, it ignores filesystems. this is great if the FS is too broken to use for recovery,
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2021-06-29 10:01:55	BCMM	but instead, it depends on recognising the signitures of specific file formats
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2021-06-29 10:02:08	jaafarrc	Mhm.
2021-06-29 10:02:08	BCMM	(originally jpeg i think, thus the name, but there's now quite a long list)
2021-06-29 10:02:24	BCMM	oh sorry, keepass db is on the list
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2021-06-29 10:02:30	BCMM	i kind of assumed that was too out there
2021-06-29 10:02:39	Shariff	Hey there
2021-06-29 10:02:43	jaafarrc	KDBX with the X, right?
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2021-06-29 10:02:54	jaafarrc	Because KDB and KDBX are completely different.
2021-06-29 10:02:55	BCMM	jaafarrc: yup https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/File_Formats_Recovered_By_PhotoRec
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2021-06-29 10:03:08	Shariff	How do I make sure a package (apt) gets installed from a specific repo. I am trying to install nginx and I have several repo's offering that package
2021-06-29 10:03:12	BCMM	so if photorec didn't find it, it's probably been overwritten
2021-06-29 10:04:26	jaafarrc	Oh, yeah...
2021-06-29 10:04:54	jaafarrc	I have another that has the exact same path and name as the one I'm trying to recover.
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2021-06-29 10:05:08	Friithian	I need suggestions for creating human readable output from automatic dmarc reports (my stack is ubuntu LTS, dovecot, postfix, and mysql/mariadb)
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2021-06-29 10:06:20	gry	Shariff: what does "apt search package" show?
2021-06-29 10:06:44	lacroix	Shariff: you want -t
2021-06-29 10:06:58	Shariff	gry: quite a lot if you do apt search nginx :)
2021-06-29 10:07:01	gry	Shariff: it normally says things like "package/stable". in your case does it give you two results that are labeled differently?
2021-06-29 10:07:10	Shariff	lacroix: I thikn I may be following your nginx tutorial :)
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2021-06-29 10:07:36	Shariff	gry: Yes, It stays stable
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2021-06-29 10:07:46	Shariff	gry: stable 1.21.0-1~buster amd64
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2021-06-29 10:08:06	gry	Shariff: actually what lacroix says may be a much quicker way to get there, I mean the -t.
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2021-06-29 10:08:39	Shariff	gry, lacroix: how do I identify the repo. I tried with the full url but that didn't work
2021-06-29 10:09:01	peetaur	Shariff: apt-cache policy $package
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2021-06-29 10:10:22	Shariff	peetaur: it seems I'm worried about nothing. The latest version is the correct repo...
2021-06-29 10:10:26	Shariff	Thanks a lot everyone!
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2021-06-29 10:17:14	SweetAlabama	hi everyone, i'm having problems with vulkan, it no longer seems to work after i updated system today..
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2021-06-29 10:18:04	spyroboy	I don't know anything about Vulkan, SweetAlabama, but nobody can help you if you won't detail your problem.
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2021-06-29 10:18:23	spyroboy	expecting people on the internet to want to inquire about the details of your problem is also unreasonable.
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2021-06-29 10:18:38	SweetAlabama	This is what vulkan info gives me as output
2021-06-29 10:18:39	Friithian	bit hostile there, eh?
2021-06-29 10:18:45	SweetAlabama	# vulkaninfo
2021-06-29 10:18:46	SweetAlabama	Authorization required, but no authorization protocol specified
2021-06-29 10:18:46	SweetAlabama	XCB failed to connect to the X server due to error:1.
2021-06-29 10:18:47	SweetAlabama	ERROR at ../vulkaninfo/vulkaninfo.h:847: AppCreateXcbSurface failed to establish connection
2021-06-29 10:19:17	spyroboy	Friithian, not hostility. that's just how IRC works. state the problem in as much detail as possible and someone might be able to help you.
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2021-06-29 10:19:22	Kyv	That's not what I'd call hostility.
2021-06-29 10:19:24	<--	JustSomeGoon (~justsomeg@user/justsomegoon) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-29 10:19:48	Friithian	could have been achived with a "Hey can we get more info on that?"
2021-06-29 10:19:53	SweetAlabama	and this is steam terminal output:  vkEnumeratePhysicalDevices failed, unable to init and enumerate GPUs with Vulkan.
2021-06-29 10:19:53	SweetAlabama	BInit - Unable to initialize Vulkan!
2021-06-29 10:20:02	Kyv	Friithian: What is this, the geek squad?
2021-06-29 10:20:08	spyroboy	Friithian, that's literally insane. the internet is not a charity. lol
2021-06-29 10:20:14	Friithian	 /ignore kyv
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2021-06-29 10:20:41	spyroboy	SweetAlabama, do you know what was updated?
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2021-06-29 10:23:00	Kyv	Its spelled with a capital K, you absolute billy goat.
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2021-06-29 10:24:35	SweetAlabama	spyroboy uhh, i forgot.. is there a way to list terminal output?
2021-06-29 10:24:43	SweetAlabama	i rebooted my machine several times since then
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2021-06-29 10:24:58	spyroboy	Kyv, I like how you distinguish between k and K as separate letters lol
2021-06-29 10:25:32	spyroboy	SweetAlabama, there might be a log your package manager provides but honestly I wouldn't know.
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2021-06-29 10:25:59	rascul	SweetAlabama is that user a member of the video group?
2021-06-29 10:26:19	rascul	(if there is a video group)
2021-06-29 10:26:30	SweetAlabama	rascul yes
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2021-06-29 10:28:48	mworkman72	good day everyone?
2021-06-29 10:29:03	ayecee	is it? is it really?
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2021-06-29 10:29:09	mworkman72	LOL
2021-06-29 10:29:37	BluesKaj	too damn hot here
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2021-06-29 10:29:57	Kyv	its crazy meek monday
2021-06-29 10:30:02	rascul	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwATvALiQ_8
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2021-06-29 10:30:40	SweetAlabama	spyroboy i found the list of updated/installed packages that i did today https://pastebin.com/1sCdZbMX
2021-06-29 10:30:51	mworkman72	I am trying to install XFCE onto Suse Linux Enterprise from an openSuse repo, which is for the free Suse, should I use a repo specifically for Suse Enterprise? insted of the free Suse?
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2021-06-29 10:32:17	rascul	mworkman72 probably best to use the enterprise repo
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2021-06-29 10:33:18	spyroboy	SweetAlabama, 1. see topic regarding preferred paste service 2. do you use X or Wayland?
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2021-06-29 10:33:40	SweetAlabama	spyro wayland
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2021-06-29 10:34:26	SweetAlabama	why is it asking not to use pastebin?
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2021-06-29 10:34:50	spyroboy	well, it seems like your application is trying to connect to X which appears to not be running.
2021-06-29 10:34:51	ayecee	long and boring story
2021-06-29 10:35:06	rascul	the short and boring story is that pastebin.com is evil
2021-06-29 10:35:16	akk	SweetAlabama: pastebin is annoying to use, requires javascript, sometimes shows ads or other intrusive stuff
2021-06-29 10:35:26	ayecee	according to the people who have the permission to write the topic and kick people
2021-06-29 10:35:31	spyroboy	if you're using wayland, you should have xwayland available for compatibility but it appears you do not?
2021-06-29 10:35:31	ayecee	that's the important part
2021-06-29 10:35:37	orbatos_	rascul, someone buy them or ?
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2021-06-29 10:36:23	ayecee	orbatos_: nope
2021-06-29 10:36:24	SweetAlabama	spyroboy i have xorg-server-xwayland-21.1.1_1
2021-06-29 10:36:31	SweetAlabama	should i install 32bit version too?
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2021-06-29 10:37:25	ayecee	when in rome, paste as the romans do
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2021-06-29 10:38:59	rascul	do romans paste, though?
2021-06-29 10:39:07	hodapp	they had concrete
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2021-06-29 10:39:11	hodapp	that is basically sand + paste
2021-06-29 10:39:26	akik	i use pastebin and whistle while doing it
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2021-06-29 10:39:59	Kyv	roman glue makes gorilla glue look like hot breath on a spoon
2021-06-29 10:40:01	spyroboy	SweetAlabama, what application are you trying to run
2021-06-29 10:40:16	SweetAlabama	spyroboy steam and games from steam
2021-06-29 10:40:20	SweetAlabama	using steam proton
2021-06-29 10:40:27	falk689	rascul: they do now lol
2021-06-29 10:40:35	spyroboy	oh. steam.
2021-06-29 10:40:41	spyroboy	oh. proton.
2021-06-29 10:40:57	spyroboy	it's possible there's some linkage issues. who knows.
2021-06-29 10:40:59	swarfega	Kyv: Roman cement was ahead of its time
2021-06-29 10:41:21	spyroboy	SweetAlabama, make sure that steam and everything is up to date and try again.
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2021-06-29 10:42:21	falk689	for steam you likely need 32 bit libs btw
2021-06-29 10:42:27	swarfega	you do
2021-06-29 10:42:47	swarfega	distros that went 64-bit only, left required 32bit ones on for steam
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2021-06-29 10:45:40	rascul	my steam just uses heat and water
2021-06-29 10:46:44	ayecee	great for games to. you can place bets on how much steam it takes to burst a boiler.
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2021-06-29 10:47:16	varaindemian	getting this: `Test1: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :1` while trying `xdotool search --name "$2" windowkill`
2021-06-29 10:47:25	varaindemian	any idea why?
2021-06-29 10:47:46	varaindemian	I opened chrome with `chromium-browser --name="$2" --new-window "$1" & sleep 3`
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2021-06-29 10:48:09	falk689	rascul: the best kind steam, less prone to bugs, doesn't require 32 bit libraries and behaves just like everything else around it instead of sticking like a sore thumb
2021-06-29 10:48:51	 *	rascul places a bet on ayecee
2021-06-29 10:48:56	ayecee	varaindemian: does it do the same if you try again?
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2021-06-29 10:49:27	varaindemian	yes
2021-06-29 10:49:39	ayecee	well shoot
2021-06-29 10:49:43	 *	rascul shoots
2021-06-29 10:49:46	Kyv	I am always a bit taken by how well steam camouflages itself.
2021-06-29 10:49:50	varaindemian	ayecee it does the same on two different systems
2021-06-29 10:50:04	varaindemian	om a vm and on another machine
2021-06-29 10:50:05	ayecee	can you find other windows with xdotool?
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2021-06-29 10:50:27	rascul	what is the value of $2 ?
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2021-06-29 10:50:58	akik	this worked when changing a window name: xdotool search -name "Mozilla Firefox" set_window --name abc
2021-06-29 10:51:28	matsaman	aw yeh
2021-06-29 10:51:32	ayecee	a command with different arguments works for a different person :D
2021-06-29 10:51:45	rascul	my firefox resists the name change
2021-06-29 10:52:01	akik	hallelujah! for diversity!
2021-06-29 10:52:16	Kyv	Its all about keeping a free and censored web
2021-06-29 10:52:35	varaindemian	ayecee also opened two windows, one
2021-06-29 10:52:40	rascul	Kyv get out of my web
2021-06-29 10:52:53	varaindemian	one Test1 the other Test2 with different links and I closed them both..
2021-06-29 10:53:08	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-29 10:53:12	Kyv	I wouldnt be caught dead in your web
2021-06-29 10:53:20	ayecee	varaindemian: how did you open the windows?
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2021-06-29 10:53:43	ayecee	Kyv: but alive, maybe yes?
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2021-06-29 10:53:55	varaindemian	chromium-browser --name="Test1" --new-window example.com
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2021-06-29 10:54:03	varaindemian	ayecee ^
2021-06-29 10:54:14	akik	wow there's a bug in xdotool. xdotool search should use --name but it uses -name
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2021-06-29 10:54:57	matsaman	noyce
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2021-06-29 10:55:15	orbatos_	never nooticed, what are you simulating/testing?
2021-06-29 10:55:19	Kyv	xdotool has bugs
2021-06-29 10:55:21	ayecee	varaindemian: okay, and you killed that with xdotool search --name Test1 windowkill ?
2021-06-29 10:55:24	varaindemian	akik `xdotool search -name "Test1" windowkill`?
2021-06-29 10:55:27	Kyv	thats been pretty established
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2021-06-29 10:55:37	Kyv	I dont think its been maintained for a bit either
2021-06-29 10:55:37	varaindemian	ayecee yes
2021-06-29 10:55:48	ayecee	varaindemian: okay, i don't understand. what is the command that failed?
2021-06-29 10:55:57	-->	sahilister (~sahiliste@user/sahilister) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 10:56:19	varaindemian	ayecee both windows got killed Test1 and Test2
2021-06-29 10:56:23	-->	remyabel (remyabel@user/remyabel) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 10:56:29	varaindemian	I wanted to kill only Test1
2021-06-29 10:56:37	akik	varaindemian: xdotool search -name "Mozilla Firefox" windowkill worked
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2021-06-29 10:56:45	ayecee	varaindemian: is this the same problem or a different problem now?
2021-06-29 10:56:57	varaindemian	akik let me check
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2021-06-29 10:57:29	jiffe	would there be a problem in general building a statically linked binary on an ubuntu 20.04 machine and running it on a rhel5 machine, both amd64 ?
2021-06-29 10:57:57	ayecee	jiffe: try it and see?
2021-06-29 10:58:31	jiffe	ayecee: I am, its segfaulting, not sure if its because of the way I'm building it or something else
2021-06-29 10:58:39	Str1x	what is the difference between redhat enterprize linux and let's say debian
2021-06-29 10:58:52	wigums	paid support
2021-06-29 10:58:54	matsaman	Str1x: package manager, community, philosophy
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2021-06-29 10:59:04	jiffe	well ubuntu 20.04 is much newer than rhel5
2021-06-29 10:59:08	SkunkyLaptop	jiffe: static builds aren't as portable as you might think
2021-06-29 10:59:27	matsaman	jiffe: yes but Ubuntu is an unstable build of Debian
2021-06-29 10:59:32	matsaman	RHEL's unstable build is called Fedora
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2021-06-29 10:59:48	Str1x	what package manager does redhat use?
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2021-06-29 10:59:57	ananke	Str1x: rpm
2021-06-29 10:59:58	matsaman	Str1x: rpm-who-the-fsck-cares-crappity-crap
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2021-06-29 11:00:06	ayecee	jiffe: i think it's technically possible, generally, but there's a lot of gotchas that can make it difficult.
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2021-06-29 11:00:20	matsaman	realistically a lot of people use higher level package managers on top of rpm at this point, but yes ultimately rpm
2021-06-29 11:00:22	Masklin	How do you change the default ps1 variable?
2021-06-29 11:00:31	Masklin	Globally I mean
2021-06-29 11:00:33	matsaman	you may recognize the name from the phrase "rpm hell"
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2021-06-29 11:00:44	matsaman	Masklin: in /etc/, where global configs live
2021-06-29 11:00:45	Str1x	<matsaman> like pacman?
2021-06-29 11:00:51	ananke	matsaman: which has nothing to do with RPM
2021-06-29 11:00:54	matsaman	Str1x: pacman is Arch's package manager, yup
2021-06-29 11:01:08	rascul	dependency hell isn't exclusive to rpm
2021-06-29 11:01:09	ayecee	jiffe: i wouldn't have expected a segfault though.
2021-06-29 11:01:20	matsaman	ananke: what, 'rpm hell'?
2021-06-29 11:01:32	matsaman	rascul: no but 'rpm hell' pretty much is, it's kind of in the name
2021-06-29 11:01:34	Masklin	matsaman: Do you happen to know the name of the file containing this particular config?
2021-06-29 11:01:54	ananke	matsaman: yes, it's disingenuous to use that, as it's really dependency hell
2021-06-29 11:01:55	matsaman	Masklin: grep -r PS1 /etc/
2021-06-29 11:01:57	varaindemian	ayecee they don't work at all now.. neither of them is killled anymore
2021-06-29 11:02:20	matsaman	nah, Red Hat had a pronounced dependency hell, they got their own version and name for it
2021-06-29 11:02:21	ayecee	varaindemian: i've lost track of what the current problem is now.
2021-06-29 11:02:40	matsaman	just like I can still make fun of Mandrake for going bankrupt, even though other entities go bankrupt
2021-06-29 11:02:42	ayecee	Masklin: most likely /etc/profile
2021-06-29 11:02:44	ananke	matsaman: you clearly are ignorant of what's involved
2021-06-29 11:02:46	varaindemian	ayecee I tried with `-name` and nothing happened
2021-06-29 11:02:50	matsaman	ananke: no u
2021-06-29 11:02:52	ayecee	varaindemian: tried what
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2021-06-29 11:03:15	varaindemian	ayecee I opened it with -name and then tried to kill it with -name
2021-06-29 11:03:22	ayecee	varaindemian: opened what
2021-06-29 11:03:35	jiffe	all I need is a more recent versionyeah there's something fundamentally wrong here, running in gdb it segfaults before I even get to the main breakpoint
2021-06-29 11:03:36	ananke	'rpm hell', is a dependency issue stemming from using multiple discrete repositories which are not in sync when it comes to dependency info. it's not specific to RPM at all, and affects other package managers
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2021-06-29 11:03:48	varaindemian	ayecee a new window in chrome
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2021-06-29 11:04:04	Masklin	ayecee: Correct! Thanks :-]
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2021-06-29 11:04:12	matsaman	ananke: you're confusing 'rpm hell' and 'dependency hell'
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2021-06-29 11:04:15	matsaman	the former has 'rpm' in its name
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2021-06-29 11:05:16	ayecee	varaindemian: look, for you, this problem has all your attention. for me, there's a lot of conversation going on. i don't remember the state of your problem or the exact command you're running.
2021-06-29 11:05:20	ayecee	varaindemian: help me out.
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2021-06-29 11:05:34	varaindemian	ayecee just a moment
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2021-06-29 11:06:37	ayecee	varaindemian: i can tell you that "windowkill" closes the window but also kills the program that had the window. if that program had more than one window, they would all close
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2021-06-29 11:06:50	ayecee	varaindemian: but i don't know if that's your current problem.
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2021-06-29 11:07:17	ananke	matsaman: and there's no such thing as rpm specific hell, no matter how much FUD you're interested in spreading
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2021-06-29 11:07:54	varaindemian	ayecee then how can I kill only that window
2021-06-29 11:07:54	varaindemian	?
2021-06-29 11:07:56	matsaman	it's always fun to encounter a new dialect of English
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2021-06-29 11:08:55	ayecee	varaindemian: maybe send the window a ctrl-w?
2021-06-29 11:08:57	hodapp	ananke: don't waste your breath
2021-06-29 11:09:16	varaindemian	ayecee hmm how?
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2021-06-29 11:09:54	BCMM	Str1x: i'd say that, at a high level, the big difference between RHEL and Debian is that one of them is produced by a corporation and one is produced by a community of volunteers
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2021-06-29 11:10:22	Str1x	BCMM: i see,
2021-06-29 11:10:26	ayecee	varaindemian: i see examples of "xdotool key ctrl-Tab", so maybe something like that
2021-06-29 11:10:42	ayecee	err, the example was ctrl+Tab
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2021-06-29 11:11:06	ayecee	anyhow, xdotool can apparently send keyboard events
2021-06-29 11:11:16	HumbleGuy	i wanted to patch this https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/nextprev/ , specifically shiftview.c as its a better implemetation. I created shiftview.c file, added this line to Key keys:
2021-06-29 11:11:17	HumbleGuy	{ MODKEY, XK_x, shiftview, { .i = +1 } },
2021-06-29 11:11:17	HumbleGuy	 but i get this error: config.h:94:38: error: ‘shiftview’ undeclared here (not in a function),
2021-06-29 11:11:17	HumbleGuy	 even though i changed the function name from view_adjacent to shiftview
2021-06-29 11:11:24	varaindemian	ayecee can I isue ctrl+w for a given window name
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2021-06-29 11:11:45	ayecee	varaindemian: i'm not clear on that part. might take some experimentation
2021-06-29 11:11:58	Kyv	you gotta include the shiftview
2021-06-29 11:12:04	Kyv	include it today
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2021-06-29 11:12:34	ayecee	HumbleGuy: where is it declared?
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2021-06-29 11:12:52	HumbleGuy	ayecee, in shiftview.c
2021-06-29 11:13:17	ayecee	where is this line
2021-06-29 11:13:35	BCMM	Str1x: in *technical* goals, they're quite similar (assuming Debian Stable). both are generally conservative with technical decisions, and prioritise making something that's going to carry on working for quite a long time
2021-06-29 11:13:50	HumbleGuy	ayecee, what do you mean? shifview.c is a separate file in dwm directory
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2021-06-29 11:14:02	esselfe	HumbleGuy: you need to add '#include <header_here.h>', try grep shiftview *.h
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2021-06-29 11:14:31	ayecee	HumbleGuy: i don't understand then, why the error is talking about a line in config.h
2021-06-29 11:14:43	ananke	Str1x: because of the paid support, RHEL is also a frequent *primar* target by various hardware & software vendors
2021-06-29 11:14:46	esselfe	if its scope is in a .c file, you need to mark it "extern" in a meaningful header
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2021-06-29 11:15:46	matsaman	but also because Ubuntu is more popular in general, it is also a frequent target
2021-06-29 11:15:47	 *	onelegend 
2021-06-29 11:15:49	esselfe	or you used it before it was declared
2021-06-29 11:15:57	orbatos_	RHEL mad huge progress in standardising Linux as a server platform, though they then behaved the same way as other major vendors, Debian didn't go that rout.
2021-06-29 11:16:08	HumbleGuy	then i have to #include shiftview.c
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2021-06-29 11:16:20	ayecee	HumbleGuy: that seems wrong, eh?
2021-06-29 11:16:22	esselfe	no you don't include .c files, only .h
2021-06-29 11:16:38	esselfe	you have to find where it was declared
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2021-06-29 11:17:35	HumbleGuy	esselfe, this is the patch https://lists.suckless.org/dev/att-7590/shiftview.c
2021-06-29 11:17:49	HumbleGuy	i just added this file in dwm dir
2021-06-29 11:17:51	ayecee	this isn't a patch
2021-06-29 11:17:56	HumbleGuy	oh
2021-06-29 11:17:57	HumbleGuy	yes
2021-06-29 11:17:58	HumbleGuy	my baf
2021-06-29 11:18:00	HumbleGuy	bad
2021-06-29 11:18:11	onelegend	https://github.com/djpohly/dwl here's DWM for wayland if anyone's interested
2021-06-29 11:18:12	HumbleGuy	and then added keybindings in config.c
2021-06-29 11:18:14	Kyv	What is it supposed to do with the keybinding you edited in, do you think?
2021-06-29 11:18:55	ayecee	HumbleGuy: okay, you'll need a header file for this, the way the other keybinding functions are declared in header files
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2021-06-29 11:19:23	ayecee	and then you'll need to include that header file the way the other header files are included
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2021-06-29 11:19:34	akik	HumbleGuy: what does that program do?
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2021-06-29 11:20:09	ayecee	HumbleGuy: like, find where view_adjacent is defined, and the header file for it, and where that header is included, and then do the same for yours.
2021-06-29 11:20:56	varaindemian	ayecee also tried `chromium-browser --app=https://facebook.com & sleep 2 & wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "Test1"`
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2021-06-29 11:21:09	varaindemian	ayecee and then `wmctrl -c "Test1"`
2021-06-29 11:21:25	varaindemian	ayecee abut again it kills both windows Test1 and Test2
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2021-06-29 11:22:11	ayecee	hate it when that happens
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2021-06-29 11:22:52	 *	Kyv eats a pickle from the abundance of pickles
2021-06-29 11:22:54	HumbleGuy	ayecee, is it generally declared in config.h?
2021-06-29 11:23:01	ayecee	HumbleGuy: no
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2021-06-29 11:23:31	HumbleGuy	ayecee, ok its in dwm.c
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2021-06-29 11:23:44	ayecee	okay, and which header is it declared in
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2021-06-29 11:23:53	HumbleGuy	but i dont understand how to declare the header file if the file itself is a .c
2021-06-29 11:23:58	ayecee	because config.h for sure doesn't include dwm.c
2021-06-29 11:24:23	ayecee	well first you'd have to create a .h file for the .c file
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2021-06-29 11:25:20	varaindemian	ayecee any idea where it fails?
2021-06-29 11:25:34	varaindemian	ayecee with this one`chromium-browser --app=https://facebook.com & sleep 2 & wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "Test1"`
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2021-06-29 11:25:59	Kyv	put #include "shiftview.c" in your cofig.h
2021-06-29 11:26:05	Kyv	for the love of god
2021-06-29 11:26:11	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i tried this before
2021-06-29 11:26:18	ayecee	uh, no, don't do that
2021-06-29 11:26:31	ayecee	you'll get errors about duplicate definitions at a minimum
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2021-06-29 11:26:54	ayecee	varaindemian: nope
2021-06-29 11:27:01	Kyv	ayecee: it must be a feature of HumbleGuy's world
2021-06-29 11:27:08	ayecee	Kyv: shush
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2021-06-29 11:27:41	ayecee	HumbleGuy: did you find the .h file that declares view_adjacent?
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2021-06-29 11:29:08	HumbleGuy	ayecee, still searching
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2021-06-29 11:32:28	Kyv	The reason it is erroring out is because "shiftview" is not defined as a function
2021-06-29 11:32:30	Kyv	but in the argument
2021-06-29 11:32:54	ayecee	it's not supposed to be defined as a function in config.h
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2021-06-29 11:33:00	varaindemian	ayecee maybe killing only the pid?
2021-06-29 11:33:00	ayecee	view_adjacent sure isn't
2021-06-29 11:33:11	ayecee	varaindemian: the pid of what
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2021-06-29 11:33:25	varaindemian	ayecee pid of a window
2021-06-29 11:33:31	Kyv	Where are you getting this?
2021-06-29 11:33:31	ayecee	varaindemian: a window doesn't have a pid
2021-06-29 11:33:43	ayecee	Kyv: getting what
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2021-06-29 11:33:47	Kyv	That is the format of the keybinding
2021-06-29 11:34:01	varaindemian	aycee creating a new app and then killing it?
2021-06-29 11:34:06	Kyv	modifier, key, function, argument
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2021-06-29 11:34:47	ayecee	Kyv: i can't tell if you're shooting high or i'm ducking low, but i'm not getting you
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2021-06-29 11:35:12	ayecee	varaindemian: both windows Test1 and Test2 are from the same pid
2021-06-29 11:35:26	Kyv	ayecee: look at the keybinding section of config.h
2021-06-29 11:35:34	varaindemian	aycee can;t differentiate them somehow?
2021-06-29 11:35:36	ayecee	Kyv: okay, i'm looking
2021-06-29 11:35:48	ayecee	varaindemian: not this way apparently
2021-06-29 11:35:55	Kyv	then look at what HumbleGuy had edited in, and where
2021-06-29 11:36:00	Kyv	and then remember the error
2021-06-29 11:36:01	ayecee	Kyv: i did
2021-06-29 11:36:03	varaindemian	ayecee how then?
2021-06-29 11:36:06	ayecee	Kyv: i have
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2021-06-29 11:36:09	ayecee	varaindemian: i don't know
2021-06-29 11:36:32	Kyv	To put it flatly, its in the wrong column
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2021-06-29 11:36:38	ayecee	Kyv: apparently just looking at the same things doesn't give me your same perspective
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2021-06-29 11:37:10	ayecee	what's in the wrong column
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2021-06-29 11:37:57	Kyv	the thing that should be in the function column
2021-06-29 11:38:06	ayecee	what thing
2021-06-29 11:38:11	<--	tex (~super@user/dix) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-29 11:38:17	Kyv	'shiftview'
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2021-06-29 11:38:27	ayecee	how do you figure that's in the wrong column
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2021-06-29 11:39:04	ayecee	it's in the third column in the line he added, where it should be
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2021-06-29 11:40:41	Kyv	it just switched back
2021-06-29 11:40:52	ayecee	what did
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2021-06-29 11:42:01	Kyv	its at least in the proper order now
2021-06-29 11:42:07	Kyv	in my ever-shifting perspective
2021-06-29 11:42:09	Samian	hi
2021-06-29 11:42:13	matsaman	hi sam
2021-06-29 11:42:17	ayecee	ok
2021-06-29 11:42:19	Samian	does this kill all python instances just for samiw1? killall -9 python -u samiw1
2021-06-29 11:42:23	Samian	or does it kill for everyone?
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2021-06-29 11:42:40	matsaman	Samian: that's what the man page says
2021-06-29 11:42:49	matsaman	Samian: you could test it on something less crucial than 'python'
2021-06-29 11:42:55	Samian	I'm not sure if multiple flags act as an "or" or an "and" logical operation
2021-06-29 11:43:03	matsaman	test it, know for sure
2021-06-29 11:43:04	Samian	or means either can be true
2021-06-29 11:43:12	ayecee	wouldn't make sense for it to be or
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2021-06-29 11:43:21	Samian	eh I'm not going to test it on a server full of other users
2021-06-29 11:43:26	matsaman	Samian: you could test it on something less crucial than 'python'
2021-06-29 11:43:45	ayecee	then test it somewhere else, on something else
2021-06-29 11:43:50	matsaman	^ yup
2021-06-29 11:44:53	koollman	Samian: killall -v -0 python -u samiw1
2021-06-29 11:45:00	koollman	nicer test
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2021-06-29 11:45:46	Samian	thanks man
2021-06-29 11:45:58	koollman	(-0 is quite useful in various situations :) )
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2021-06-29 11:46:27	matsaman	-0?
2021-06-29 11:46:37	ayecee	signal 0
2021-06-29 11:46:42	matsaman	-u really makes 'killall' a misnomer =P
2021-06-29 11:46:45	ayecee	sigmeh
2021-06-29 11:46:46	koollman	instead of -9 or any other harmful signal
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2021-06-29 11:46:56	autopsy	ayecee, mke2fs has ^O so or is likely.
2021-06-29 11:47:04	ananke	and you should avoid -9 as your first course of action
2021-06-29 11:47:05	matsaman	what, -9 is the best, how could you cheat it so
2021-06-29 11:47:58	akk	What does signal 0 do?
2021-06-29 11:48:13	ayecee	nothing except test that you can deliver a signal
2021-06-29 11:48:17	ananke	akk: man 7 signal
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2021-06-29 11:48:52	ayecee	i don't see signal 0 in there
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2021-06-29 11:49:01	ananke	yep, my bad, I assumed it was
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2021-06-29 11:49:38	uwharrie	akk: think of it like a ping for a PID
2021-06-29 11:49:44	akk	cool
2021-06-29 11:49:51	ayecee	the kill manpage mentions it briefly but doesn't say what it does too
2021-06-29 11:50:03	matsaman	man 2 kill
2021-06-29 11:50:13	ananke	seems that kill's manpage is the only one that does mention it, killall doesn't
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2021-06-29 11:50:42	matsaman	it's almost like documentation isn't always 100% comprehensive =P
2021-06-29 11:50:53	ayecee	however, kill -0 exits with 0 if the pid exists and you can send a signal to it, or non-zero otherwise
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2021-06-29 11:51:35	smlavine	What does it do that kill -9 doesnt?
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2021-06-29 11:52:10	ayecee	leaves the process alive
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2021-06-29 12:00:11	autopsy	So all you guys would have had to say is ipcalc is a tool I caould use instead of being jackasses.
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2021-06-29 12:00:28	autopsy	Claiming math can't deduce out of an address a netmask and subnet.
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2021-06-29 12:01:00	ayecee	people might go the extra mile for you if you weren't such a jackass yourself
2021-06-29 12:01:06	akik	i'm a jackofalltrades
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2021-06-29 12:01:42	ananke	autopsy: you claimed to be able to deduce netmask/subnet out of nothing but an IP
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2021-06-29 12:02:28	ananke	autopsy: and if you asked for tools to help calculate, we would have given you those. instead, you went off on a crusade against windmills
2021-06-29 12:02:28	autopsy	Yes using netmask and Address you can divide by 2 to get your answerr ananke.
2021-06-29 12:02:47	ayecee	o_O
2021-06-29 12:02:51	b0rf	lol
2021-06-29 12:02:53	akik	always divide by 2, never by 0
2021-06-29 12:02:55	ananke	autopsy: again, that's not what you said originally
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2021-06-29 12:03:38	autopsy	I said division by 2.
2021-06-29 12:03:50	autopsy	32 into 255 256 is 8 or less times.
2021-06-29 12:04:09	autopsy	32 is divisionble by 2.
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2021-06-29 12:04:47	ayecee	i honestly can't tell if autopsy is being genuine twit or doing an incredible simulation
2021-06-29 12:05:01	rascul	probably both
2021-06-29 12:05:21	ananke	judging from the past track record, I'm inclined to pick the former
2021-06-29 12:05:29	ayecee	well but he does both, a lot
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2021-06-29 12:05:31	akik	autopsy: so what if something is divisible by 2 ? how do you get the netmask
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2021-06-29 12:05:49	rascul	984 / 2 = netmask
2021-06-29 12:05:54	<--	CrustY_ (~crusty@2001:a61:5147:8101:c361:ceb6:c056:c5e6) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-29 12:05:56	BCMM	[17:00:28] <autopsy> Claiming math can't deduce out of an address a netmask and subnet.
2021-06-29 12:06:00	-->	Stormkeeper (~kvirc@54.200-30-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 12:06:06	BCMM	well, yes. there are multiple valid subnets for a given address!
2021-06-29 12:06:14	<--	nullptr| (~nullptr@user/nullptr/x-2182142) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-06-29 12:06:17	BCMM	(unless you know how the network is configured from some other source)
2021-06-29 12:06:19	ananke	07:41  autopsy> What math would be involved in taking this as input : 192.168.1.1 and printing out like 192.168.1.0/32
2021-06-29 12:06:22	ananke	07:41  autopsy> Or 192.168.2.1 and printing out like 192.168.2.0/24
2021-06-29 12:06:28	CommunistWolf	sounds like a job for empiricism
2021-06-29 12:06:34	ananke	ohh, I know, 'divide by 2'!
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2021-06-29 12:06:58	rascul	192.168.1.1 isn't in 192.168.1.0/32 though
2021-06-29 12:07:34	ananke	rascul: clearly, you're not dividing it sufficiently to understand
2021-06-29 12:07:35	BCMM	there has to be an element of X-Y problem to this... like, *why* is autopsy trying to calculate netmasks from IP addresses?
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2021-06-29 12:09:29	 *	rascul divides by ananke
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2021-06-29 12:11:37	b0rf	Yo people on LinkedIn are fucking retards
2021-06-29 12:11:52	b0rf	Like every time I hear some executive post about IT it makes me want to barf and shit at the same time
2021-06-29 12:12:07	rascul	ok but maybe you can rant about it elsewhere
2021-06-29 12:12:12	b0rf	ya sorry, wrong channel
2021-06-29 12:12:14	matsaman	b0rf: haer hear
2021-06-29 12:12:17	matsaman	hare
2021-06-29 12:12:19	b0rf	lol
2021-06-29 12:12:38	Kyv	ahaha
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2021-06-29 12:12:59	BCMM	why isn't #linux-offtopic advertised in the /topic, anyway?
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2021-06-29 12:13:10	Kyv	because it is a disgrace, obviously
2021-06-29 12:13:14	randomuser	Hello, I have a question. Why can my CWD be "."?
2021-06-29 12:13:19	matsaman	because -offtopic channels are idiotic
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2021-06-29 12:13:58	Kyv	damn straight
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2021-06-29 12:14:11	matsaman	randomuser: what says it's that?
2021-06-29 12:14:16	akik	randomuser: your current working dir is .
2021-06-29 12:14:17	jiffe	cd ..
2021-06-29 12:14:25	BCMM	randomuser: i think some more context might help...
2021-06-29 12:14:42	randomuser	pwd returns .
2021-06-29 12:14:59	akik	don't divide by 0 in any case
2021-06-29 12:15:00	BCMM	ah. that's not usual.
2021-06-29 12:15:20	randomuser	I have made a little program in C that just calls getcwd and it returns "No such file or directory".
2021-06-29 12:15:38	BCMM	randomuser: as in, the `pwd` command?
2021-06-29 12:16:08	BCMM	what shell are you using?
2021-06-29 12:16:19	randomuser	Zsh, of course.
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2021-06-29 12:16:39	matsaman	probably zsh specific
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2021-06-29 12:17:07	matsaman	bash -c pwd
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2021-06-29 12:17:24	Kyv	which part is zsh-specific?
2021-06-29 12:17:26	randomuser	shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory
2021-06-29 12:17:26	randomuser	pwd: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory
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2021-06-29 12:17:29	rascul	/bin/pwd
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2021-06-29 12:17:53	randomuser	bin/pwd: couldn't find directory entry in ‘..’ with matching i-node
2021-06-29 12:18:02	matsaman	Kyv: for example, 'pwd' is a shell built-in for my bash
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2021-06-29 12:18:06	rascul	randomuser has a directory there been moved or deleted?
2021-06-29 12:18:08	randomuser	I am amazed by this.
2021-06-29 12:18:09	matsaman	so my guess is zsh also has its own
2021-06-29 12:18:11	drip	ive only seen that when you run it from a directory thats no longer there
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2021-06-29 12:18:27	Kyv	yeah it is a shell built-in
2021-06-29 12:18:32	matsaman	oh, maybe you're currently in a dir that is gone or something
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2021-06-29 12:18:36	rascul	actually i don't think moving a directory will do it, just removing
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2021-06-29 12:19:02	matsaman	randomuser: yeah, you're in some path that no longer exists
2021-06-29 12:19:32	matsaman	or something like that
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2021-06-29 12:19:56	matsaman	and one of your pwd implementations is excreting upon the sleep slab
2021-06-29 12:20:12	matsaman	/bin/pwd is correctly erroring out
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2021-06-29 12:20:38	matsaman	bash's pwd doesn't seem to care that the place no longer exists, though
2021-06-29 12:20:43	matsaman	tldr: things that start with 'z' suck
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2021-06-29 12:21:18	randomuser	How is this even possible?
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2021-06-29 12:21:38	matsaman	how is it possible to delete a directory after you've cd'd to it?
2021-06-29 12:21:42	firepup	if you have one terminal instance in a directory, another terminal can remove it
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2021-06-29 12:21:45	drip	when you delete something it just removes the hard link to the file
2021-06-29 12:21:45	matsaman	because Unix systems aren't obnoxious, that's how
2021-06-29 12:21:50	Kyv	zsh starts with an o for most people
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2021-06-29 12:21:55	firepup	therefore 'stale file handle' error or something like that.
2021-06-29 12:21:56	drip	so anything that still has it open can use it fine
2021-06-29 12:21:56	Kyv	so the logic is screwed
2021-06-29 12:22:00	matsaman	they don't make you reboot to alter software eitehr
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2021-06-29 12:22:08	esselfe	you can't unmount if you cd'd into it
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2021-06-29 12:22:38	firepup	its like how the kernel will not release a grip on a deleted file until its no longer needed
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2021-06-29 12:23:01	esselfe	you can delete a file that's currently downloading
2021-06-29 12:23:17	esselfe	I don't recall what happens with it though :P
2021-06-29 12:23:23	matsaman	no particular good reason to disallow deletion of a file
2021-06-29 12:23:31	 *	matsaman glances at GNU 'rm'...
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2021-06-29 12:27:05	randomuser	I will never trust my CWD again.
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2021-06-29 12:27:19	Kyv	this is how it happens to people
2021-06-29 12:27:32	Kyv	its the little things
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2021-06-29 12:31:33	matsaman	randomuser: test -d $(pwd) && pwd
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2021-06-29 12:32:05	randomuser	.
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2021-06-29 12:33:14	Kyv	matsaman: this is outrageous
2021-06-29 12:33:19	Kyv	zsh can handle brackets
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2021-06-29 12:33:33	Kyv	it is not a wounded waterfowl
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2021-06-29 12:36:54	firepup	ok just how do i point a program toward the correct glibc without breaking anything else.
2021-06-29 12:37:09	matsaman	firepup: what program?
2021-06-29 12:37:14	firepup	git
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2021-06-29 12:37:56	matsaman	firepup: did you install it with your distro's package manager?
2021-06-29 12:38:12	firepup	i built it by hand and installed it to /opt/lib2
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2021-06-29 12:38:24	matsaman	well that was your first mistake =)
2021-06-29 12:38:28	matsaman	why're you building it by hand?
2021-06-29 12:38:39	firepup	because the distro is based off ubuntu tahr
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2021-06-29 12:39:49	firepup	so now i have glibc and git (both compiled) in the same prefix as mentioned :/
2021-06-29 12:39:55	alschaapman	I have a question about this: https://blog.opendesktop.org/regarding-security-reportings/
2021-06-29 12:39:56	matsaman	firepup: and what, it doesn't work anymore because it's EOL?
2021-06-29 12:40:01	matsaman	update your distro
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2021-06-29 12:40:30	firepup	i cant to be honest.
2021-06-29 12:40:34	alschaapman	Was the embed functionality the only thing that made the XSS possible, and if it's true that they removed it as they say, should this vulnerability be considered patched?
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2021-06-29 12:40:50	alschaapman	I want to know if it should still be considered unsafe to get anything from opendesktop
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2021-06-29 12:40:52	matsaman	alschaapman: in pling?
2021-06-29 12:40:56	alschaapman	matsaman: Yes
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2021-06-29 12:43:05	alschaapman	This is the blog post that made the public disclosure a few days ago: https://positive.security/blog/hacking-linux-marketplaces
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2021-06-29 12:43:15	firepup	matsaman the issue is that git can't find the correct glibc, the solution I'm looking for it how to make git find the correct glibc.
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2021-06-29 12:45:01	uwharrie	firepup: you have to either bake the path to the library into the binary or override the library search path via something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Note that you're in for a lot of pain trying to shoehorn in a new glibc onto something that old
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2021-06-29 12:46:07	firepup	mk.. thanks. i guess i will look into the ./configure for git again.
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2021-06-29 12:47:02	matsaman	alschaapman: I can't even find their source code online, really
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2021-06-29 12:47:51	alschaapman	matsaman: What I meant was, if I'm taking their word for it that embed functionality was removed, is the hole closed?
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2021-06-29 12:48:01	uwharrie	unfortunately for you, glibc is hostile to static compilation
2021-06-29 12:48:01	alschaapman	It seemed like the XSS all depended on HTML embedding
2021-06-29 12:48:32	alschaapman	Unless I'm misunderstanding something about that disclosure I linked
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2021-06-29 12:49:03	matsaman	alschaapman: there is no evidence provided, sounds like a cheap "fix" to me
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2021-06-29 12:49:14	matsaman	like maybe they disabled embedding in all their sites' admins
2021-06-29 12:49:16	matsaman	rather than fixing it
2021-06-29 12:49:19	 *	matsaman shrugs
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2021-06-29 12:49:31	matsaman	the only code repo of theirs I've found is ancient
2021-06-29 12:49:34	matsaman	and mentions nothing about this
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2021-06-29 12:49:56	matsaman	positive.security also said they didn't respond to attempts to inform them
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2021-06-29 12:53:41	alschaapman	Yes, that bit really got my eyebrows raised
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2021-06-29 12:54:46	alschaapman	I find it a bit baffling that projects like KDE would even have any involvement with an organization that's so opaque and non-communicative to the community about code
2021-06-29 12:55:10	 *	matsaman shrugs
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2021-06-29 12:55:17	matsaman	most organizations have a blind spot somewhere
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2021-06-29 12:56:17	Kyv	if that is true then it is one of the last remaining distinctions
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2021-06-29 12:57:09	alschaapman	Arch has spoiled me. I've come to expect FOSS groups just to be totally accessible to the community through open communication channels
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2021-06-29 12:58:22	alschaapman	> troubleshooting over IRC
2021-06-29 12:58:23	alschaapman	> software developer chimes in with a tip about my issue
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2021-06-29 12:58:41	msiism	alschaapman: As the saying goes: You're not entitled to anything.
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2021-06-29 12:59:03	msiism	That's what those all-uppercase disclaimers are about.
2021-06-29 12:59:10	msiism	In the license texts, I mean.
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2021-06-29 12:59:24	msiism	Well, that's sort of what they're about.
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2021-06-29 13:00:53	alschaapman	*** THIS SOFTWARE WILL LIKELY MAKE YOUR NUTS FALL OFF AND WE CAN'T BE SUED ***
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2021-06-29 13:01:56	msiism	What software is this about, by the way? I don't have a long-enough backlog.
2021-06-29 13:02:06	alschaapman	msiism: Pling store
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2021-06-29 13:02:32	msiism	Never heard of that.
2021-06-29 13:02:40	alschaapman	Although I was talking about being spoiled by Arch with the "software developer drops a troubleshooting tip over IRC" bit
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2021-06-29 13:02:42	uwharrie	msiism: a non-distro affillated software distribution site
2021-06-29 13:02:50	msiism	But anything ending in "store" is probably somehting I'd not want to use.
2021-06-29 13:02:56	alschaapman	msiism: It's previously been known as opendesktop.org
2021-06-29 13:02:58	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.9.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-29 13:03:09	msiism	I see.
2021-06-29 13:03:18	alschaapman	Their web infrastructure forms the basis for GNOME Look, KDE Store, etc
2021-06-29 13:03:27	uwharrie	sounds like another download.com, old iteration of sourceforge.net, npm, dockerhub, etc, etc
2021-06-29 13:03:34	msiism	I see.
2021-06-29 13:03:46	Kyv	0/10 would not visit again
2021-06-29 13:04:16	Tom^	alschaapman: https://www.opencode.net/dfn2/pling-store-development it isnt this ?
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2021-06-29 13:05:49	Kyv	it is a rounded corners
2021-06-29 13:05:52	Kyv	and see & say store
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2021-06-29 13:07:20	msiism	alschaapman: What are you trying to acheive, by the way?
2021-06-29 13:07:38	Kyv	I can smell the bugman fitting the colored blocks in the proper shaped holes from here
2021-06-29 13:07:55	alschaapman	msiism: I'm not trying to achieve anything in particular today
2021-06-29 13:08:22	alschaapman	But I'm curious to know if I should still be giving their sites a wide berth in case I'm browsing around for new toolkit styles or something in the future
2021-06-29 13:09:12	msiism	Just use Raleigh (in case of GTK). It's solid. ;)
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2021-06-29 13:09:26	Kyv	the sites it supposedly aggregates have seemed pretty shady too
2021-06-29 13:09:36	alschaapman	Regrettably opendesktop.org is also kind of the only distro-agnostic centralized repository for community-provided desktop extensions in KDE
2021-06-29 13:09:38	Kyv	I mean they just feel like theres malware afoot
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2021-06-29 13:11:03	Kyv	downloading random bloat from the 'community'
2021-06-29 13:11:07	Kyv	the perfect vector
2021-06-29 13:11:19	alschaapman	It's even integrated into some settings dialogs for getting new artwork or graphical customizations
2021-06-29 13:11:32	rascul	alschaapman have you seen https://store.kde.org ?
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2021-06-29 13:11:59	alschaapman	rascul: Indeed, that's exactly what I'm talking about
2021-06-29 13:12:01	rascul	oh it seems related to the opendesktop.org thing though
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2021-06-29 13:12:08	alschaapman	Yeah it's all Pling
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2021-06-29 13:13:05	alschaapman	Mostly I get desktop extensions from the AUR since I like to do as much as possible with the package manager
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2021-06-29 13:13:59	alschaapman	But the ability to easily fetch new visual customizations in a user-friendly workflow has long been considered a killer feature for KDE: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/plasma-desktop-awesome.html
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2021-06-29 13:16:10	Kyv	terrible
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2021-06-29 13:18:54	alschaapman	I mean, it's not that much worse than the GNOME extensions website...
2021-06-29 13:19:38	alschaapman	Then again according to the blog post GNOME extensions webmasters were contacted about a vulnerability and promptly patched and replied so
2021-06-29 13:19:42	alschaapman	Maybe it is that much worse
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2021-06-29 13:21:35	msiism	I'd check out UDE.
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2021-06-29 13:22:24	autopsy	Fluxbox still outshines all of Europe and China.
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2021-06-29 13:22:34	autopsy	switchdesk FLUXBOX ; startx
2021-06-29 13:22:45	autopsy	ipcalc
2021-06-29 13:23:22	msiism	Fluxbox is merely a window manager, though.
2021-06-29 13:23:26	Kyv	we're processing your request, please stay on the line
2021-06-29 13:24:25	Kyv	http://udeproject.sourceforge.net/images/screenshots/ude027.jpg
2021-06-29 13:24:39	Kyv	its happening
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2021-06-29 13:27:06	Kyv	http://udeproject.sourceforge.net/images/screenshots/ude028.3.jpg
2021-06-29 13:27:10	Kyv	everyone can relax
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2021-06-29 13:27:16	drip	that brings me back
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2021-06-29 13:28:55	peetaur	if an executable called by a udev rule returns 1, what does udev do... does it trigger it again later?
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2021-06-29 13:29:46	peetaur	https://github.com/g2p/bcache-tools/blob/master/bcache-register.c     (trying to figure out why one bcache device wasn't created)
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2021-06-29 13:30:28	peetaur	but simply  `echo /dev/sdi2 > /sys/fs/bcache/register`  made it work...as if it simply didn't happen before, or happened at the wrong time and got an error
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2021-06-29 13:50:20	peetaur	...so about the udev thing, apparently blkid and udev think there's nothing there (udev says ID_FS_TYPE=""), but bcache-super-show and wipefs -an say it's bcache. :\
2021-06-29 13:50:49	peetaur	so the on disk data is a problem; and the script likely doesn't and shouldn't run
2021-06-29 13:51:06	peetaur	s/script/bcache-register/ ...not script
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2021-06-29 13:51:56	kubast2	hey, what build system is associated with .gmk?
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2021-06-29 13:53:47	peetaur	kubast2: https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=.gmk%20file
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2021-06-29 13:56:06	kubast2	yeah I am fairly sure that game maker files aren't used by openjdk peetaur
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2021-06-29 13:56:39	peetaur	where did you find the files? are there any other dot files in the top level dir (or elsewhere I guess)?
2021-06-29 13:56:50	kubast2	it is created after the first ../configure pass
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2021-06-29 13:57:03	kubast2	it creates a build/$target folder
2021-06-29 13:57:08	kubast2	ah
2021-06-29 13:57:14	kubast2	wait yeah it is used there by the make file
2021-06-29 13:57:34	kubast2	but it is actually from openjdk/make/Main.gmk
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2021-06-29 13:57:45	jiffe	is there a way to get aliases to continue inside shell scripts?  I have a shell script which downloads and runs another shell script which contains a call to curl and I need that to be curl -k ...
2021-06-29 13:58:11	kubast2	is it just a regular gnumakefile?
2021-06-29 13:58:23	kubast2	most of the time I seen people use the .mk extension for it
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2021-06-29 13:58:41	kubast2	most likely
2021-06-29 13:59:57	kubast2	I will spend way too much time figuring out why there's no rule to make target at the end of the day
2021-06-29 13:59:58	ajalaka	hey ppl, we got 5 ppl each with his own linux machine, some users are asking for backup software for their whole linux including home directories, what incremental opensource do you recommend, 2 goals are in mind: 1) user loses file 1, picks up a point in time and restores the file, 2) hard drive become corrupt, user buys new hard drive then uses the backup (iso or whatever) to get things up from
2021-06-29 13:59:59	ajalaka	scratch
2021-06-29 14:00:06	ajalaka	his/her
2021-06-29 14:00:42	kubast2	I would use rsync+script;
2021-06-29 14:00:46	c705	rsync, yeah
2021-06-29 14:01:03	kubast2	an absolutist way to do 1) is to use a log structured file system, but that uses shit ton of space overtime
2021-06-29 14:01:12	peetaur	ajalaka: I like burp and borg .... burp also works with windows and VSS so I use that mostly. And borg is much more efficient, but doesn't support windows at all.
2021-06-29 14:01:33	ajalaka	so you would rsync on "/" >
2021-06-29 14:01:35	ajalaka	?
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2021-06-29 14:01:49	kubast2	rsync -aAHXVr iirc?
2021-06-29 14:01:58	DLange	jiffe: no, but you could define a curl function to call /usr/bin/curl -k $*
2021-06-29 14:02:01	kubast2	you can rsync into a remote ssh
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2021-06-29 14:02:20	kubast2	-aAXHv
2021-06-29 14:02:31	kubast2	ajalaka, excluding /dev /proc/ sys/ etc.
2021-06-29 14:02:42	peetaur	rsync is a poor quality backup unless you can verify consistency of files... if eg /var/mysql/somefile1 depends on /var/mysql/somefile2 having a specific content (fsynced together) and you copy them at different times, will it work or be corrupt?  and also you still need to handle snapshots som eway so you have multiple restore points. What if backup ran yesterday but you want a file that was accidentally deleted 2 days ago?
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2021-06-29 14:02:43	kubast2	also does it have to be just user files?
2021-06-29 14:02:48	kubast2	or does it have to be an entire os?
2021-06-29 14:03:05	kubast2	either way I remember mksquashfs could work, but it went south for me once
2021-06-29 14:03:11	peetaur	for mysql specifically, you just do a db dump alongside your corrupt-every-database style backup
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2021-06-29 14:03:32	kubast2	also store it on something like zfs with block level deduplication to avoid
2021-06-29 14:03:42	kubast2	you know having the backups take up tons of space
2021-06-29 14:03:43	peetaur	but for the general case when you don't know which things need that or have their own tools, ...you need something better. btw burp and borg don't solve that either, without some other snapshot thing.
2021-06-29 14:03:45	ajalaka	thanks to all suggestions kubast2 c705 peetaur , i just looked up "backintime"
2021-06-29 14:03:45	kubast2	you can also use overlayfs
2021-06-29 14:03:48	ajalaka	sounds very primising
2021-06-29 14:03:50	peetaur	except on windows with VSS :|
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2021-06-29 14:04:19	ajalaka	kubast2: entire os i want an iso for the new drive in case something happens
2021-06-29 14:04:25	kubast2	oh god
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2021-06-29 14:04:28	jim	kubast2, borg backup has file level deduplication
2021-06-29 14:04:32	kubast2	how do you want that iso?
2021-06-29 14:04:35	ajalaka	what is file deduplication
2021-06-29 14:04:36	peetaur	and about that "take up tons of space" ...borg will deduplicate even across clients. and both borg and burp will efficiently store changes so you don't have many copies of unchanged data.
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2021-06-29 14:04:51	kubast2	like what do you mean, because making an iso will take you awhile
2021-06-29 14:05:04	ajalaka	i don't care how, i am the admin, the user will come and ask me here is my backup drive, get me the entire os with the old state on the new drive
2021-06-29 14:05:13	ajalaka	:D
2021-06-29 14:05:28	kubast2	ah you will give him like a portable hdd drive?
2021-06-29 14:05:33	jim	ajalaka, that's where, when the backup program stores a file, and then stores an identical copy of the same file, it won't store it again
2021-06-29 14:05:46	DLange	typically installing an OS is faster that restoring a backup + updates to the latest versions
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2021-06-29 14:06:01	kubast2	I found the opposite to be true tbh
2021-06-29 14:06:10	peetaur	ajalaka: deduplication is when it finds duplicate files and instead of storing the file twice, just has a pointer that points to the same copy
2021-06-29 14:06:20	ajalaka	oh
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2021-06-29 14:07:06	ajalaka	so in simple language it means hard links?
2021-06-29 14:07:17	jim	dunno how it does it
2021-06-29 14:07:53	DLange	better than hardlinks as block based
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2021-06-29 14:08:07	peetaur	ajalaka: hard links are sorta deduplication...but can be different. On zfs for example, if you write a deduped file, then that block will have another copy. But if you do that on a hardlink, both versions change.
2021-06-29 14:08:17	peetaur	ajalaka: generally dedup is nothing like hardlinks
2021-06-29 14:08:19	DLange	so if the checksum of a block is the same as a stored one, it is not stored again but only referenced
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2021-06-29 14:08:40	ajalaka	got it
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2021-06-29 14:09:07	peetaur	ajalaka: and btrfs has "reflinks" ...which is more like dedup, but "dedup" is about how to create them. So dedup could use reflinks to implement its thing...but you'd still need something to find all the duplicates and replace t hem with reflinks. reflinks will make another copy instead of changing both versions.
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2021-06-29 14:09:38	ajalaka	are there some good universal solutions among linux admins, or mostly adhoc scripts over rsync? i still feel lost to administrate this ever-expanding small company yet i got the freedom to apply anything on my own responsibility
2021-06-29 14:09:53	ajalaka	or ist it mostly*
2021-06-29 14:10:32	ajalaka	btrfs sounds interesting
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2021-06-29 14:10:58	Shariff	Is there a different default sudo command (than sudo) on a debian system? I haven't installed the sudo package yet, and was wondering if debian had a different type  :)
2021-06-29 14:11:10	DLange	no it has not
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2021-06-29 14:11:15	DLange	you can use su though
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2021-06-29 14:11:26	Shariff	Thanks!
2021-06-29 14:11:39	ajalaka	Shariff: eg. su -c "some command"
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2021-06-29 14:11:55	Shariff	ajalaka: thanks!
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2021-06-29 14:13:05	ajalaka	DLange: the option with reinstalling the OS on the new drive sounds much more reasonable tbf
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2021-06-29 14:13:32	DLange	ajalaka: it is as you restore very seldomly whereas you backup every day or so
2021-06-29 14:13:44	ajalaka	the user has only to backup his homedrive, but what about settings of different programs?
2021-06-29 14:13:48	DLange	it just does not make sense to backup 5 times every debian update
2021-06-29 14:14:03	DLange	ajalaka: they are all in their home dir
2021-06-29 14:14:04	hodapp	er, wouldn't program settings live in the homedir?
2021-06-29 14:14:23	ajalaka	i mean i have to install all the programs from 0, i.e. git pull update, run git post scripts to compile and make install and so on and so forth
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2021-06-29 14:14:55	DLange	install OS packages and just save that list for each device / user
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2021-06-29 14:15:09	ajalaka	DLange: i don't understand - me noob admin sorry
2021-06-29 14:15:39	 *	msiism uses restic to backup /home, /etc and /root, minus some directories from the exclusion list.
2021-06-29 14:15:47	DLange	you don't install from git or so, ajalaka
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2021-06-29 14:15:59	DLange	you use packages from Debian or whatever distro you use
2021-06-29 14:16:14	 *	msiism forgot to mention /usr/local.
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2021-06-29 14:16:40	curdlesnoot	peetaur: xfs also supports them them, curiously enough
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2021-06-29 14:17:00	ajalaka	ok how do i automate the process after installing the basic os? run a script executing apt with some variables?
2021-06-29 14:17:03	akik	well if the only source for the app is git, then you do it?
2021-06-29 14:17:23	torus	use adifferent app
2021-06-29 14:17:25	ajalaka	msiism: am checking that out
2021-06-29 14:17:28	torus	git is evil now
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2021-06-29 14:17:37	msiism	Why's that?
2021-06-29 14:17:46	uwharrie	ajalaka: have you done any research into things like config management (ansible, chef, puppet, salt) or terraform?
2021-06-29 14:17:52	torus	I don't really have time to explain. I've already said too much.
2021-06-29 14:18:04	ajalaka	yes, ansible sounds like an overkill to me
2021-06-29 14:18:08	DLange	ajalaka: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/190853/backup-and-restore-list-of-installed-packages-and-apt-sources
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2021-06-29 14:18:54	ajalaka	msiism: am checking out restic i meant
2021-06-29 14:18:58	ajalaka	DLange: thank you
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2021-06-29 14:21:06	ajalaka	i think with reinstalling a new OS on the new drive, it seems i am tending to make a customized OS copy for my office, i don't know how other admins do it but your opinions got me some combined solutions thanks everyone
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2021-06-29 14:23:19	blackgatonegro	Hello
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2021-06-29 14:24:44	akik	ajalaka: you can use restic together with rclone, so you'll get more choices for cloud storage
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2021-06-29 14:26:45	msiism	Storing data in a cloud seems pretty volatile to me.
2021-06-29 14:27:02	akik	you can store it encrypted with restic
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2021-06-29 14:27:23	akik	and it also works with that restic+rclone combination
2021-06-29 14:27:28	msiism	What if that cloud moves on, or dissolves?
2021-06-29 14:27:35	akik	oh it rains+
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2021-06-29 14:27:37	akik	?
2021-06-29 14:27:40	akik	i dunno
2021-06-29 14:27:45	ajalaka	msiism: first local then in cloud :)
2021-06-29 14:27:46	DLange	https://devnull-as-a-service.com/ cheapest backup target
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2021-06-29 14:28:45	ajalaka	akik: does rclone support local storage or is that the point of combination with restic?
2021-06-29 14:28:49	ajalaka	local sync*
2021-06-29 14:29:30	blackgatonegro	Get offline backup!
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2021-06-29 14:29:57	ajalaka	yes offline backup for sure, i would just encrypt them ontop and push in some cloud no problem
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2021-06-29 14:30:55	msiism	ajalaka: And do you tell your users that you are planning to do that?
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2021-06-29 14:31:06	blackgatonegro	 The cloud is the equivalent of having a window open.
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2021-06-29 14:32:20	akik	ajalaka: it has a provider called local so i guess the answer is yes
2021-06-29 14:32:43	akik	ajalaka: "rclone config providers | less"
2021-06-29 14:32:49	Guest72	Hi! I'm trying to set unix time to a UTC relative timestamp. I have a backend that needs to run a command to set the time but I don't have `timezone` info, I just have a UTC-1; UTC+1 type of parameter. So I need to set the unix time of the device based on that. I saw in `date` man page that I can use `-u` to get/set the UTC time but I'm wondering
2021-06-29 14:32:50	Guest72	the impact related to `/etc/localtime`. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to achieve this? thanks
2021-06-29 14:33:13	akik	        "Name": "local",
2021-06-29 14:33:13	akik	        "Description": "Local Disk",
2021-06-29 14:33:27	Guest72	FYI: this is on a very barebone embedded machine so I have no `timedatectl` type of command available
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2021-06-29 14:33:54	ajalaka	msiism: i have been given to come up with solution and test it until september, in case i need some budget (for nas or whatever there is) i could ask for, but i want to stay foss and so on, also some users want that
2021-06-29 14:34:11	esselfe	Guest72: 'TZ=UTC+1 date'
2021-06-29 14:34:13	DLange	Guest72: set unix time on what, a file or for the system?
2021-06-29 14:34:38	Guest72	for the system
2021-06-29 14:34:46	Guest72	esselfe oh so this is a thing? interesting
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2021-06-29 14:35:33	DLange	Guest72: Linux computers, even embedded ones, run the clock in UTC. Just the display is depending on TZ settings
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2021-06-29 14:35:42	Guest72	esselfe when setting the time that way; should I do any tweak to /etc/localtime? will that mess with anything on the system?
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2021-06-29 14:36:03	msiism	ajalaka: Congratulations. ;)
2021-06-29 14:36:20	esselfe	well if you have multiple timezones you want something else than /etc/localtime
2021-06-29 14:36:32	esselfe	you want to override it
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2021-06-29 14:36:51	Guest72	I just need to set the system time based on that relative UTC value. To override /etc/localtime; so I need to delete that symlink or do anything in particular?
2021-06-29 14:37:03	esselfe	I'm just not too sure on how hwclock would use the timezone format
2021-06-29 14:37:06	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@94.187.2.90) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-29 14:37:11	esselfe	better use date :)
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2021-06-29 14:37:34	ajalaka	msiism: <3
2021-06-29 14:38:15	Guest72	esselfe ok thanks for the help :D  and would setting the new time via `TZ=UTC+1 date` make it persistent? I need to time to be kept like that even after reboots etc
2021-06-29 14:38:16	esselfe	theorically you link /etc/localtime to one of the files in /usr/share/zoneinfo
2021-06-29 14:38:22	esselfe	that's system-wide
2021-06-29 14:38:24	Guest72	yes
2021-06-29 14:38:38	jiffe	if I have a function curl() { ...; }, is there a way to find out what executing `curl` on command line will actually run ?
2021-06-29 14:38:39	esselfe	then you can put 'export TZ=...' in ~/.bashrc
2021-06-29 14:38:50	Guest72	i'm just wondering about the impacts of having /etc/localtime pointing to something unrelated to the time I manually set via `TZ=UTC+1 date`
2021-06-29 14:38:57	msiism	jiffe: It will run the function first.
2021-06-29 14:38:58	jiffe	I suppose I could add an echo to the function
2021-06-29 14:39:11	msiism	Or, try to.
2021-06-29 14:39:18	esselfe	you'd have to test this, I'm not too sure there
2021-06-29 14:39:23	curdlesnoot	Guest72: the /etc/localtime file has no bearing on how the hwclock stores time on most systems, without direct user intervention. for example, you might run "timedatectl set-local-rtc 1" on a systemd-using system for the hwclock not to store UTC. usually, there's no reason to.
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2021-06-29 14:39:47	curdlesnoot	Guest72: that aside, the purpose of the /etc/localtime file is to define the timezone you're in so that dates and times are rendered accordingly.
2021-06-29 14:39:52	msiism	jiffe: If you want to bypass function look-up, use `command curl…`.
2021-06-29 14:40:07	DLange	jiffe: type curl
2021-06-29 14:40:09	ajalaka	jiffe: i think set -x, but i am not sure
2021-06-29 14:40:34	msiism	jiffe: `command` also provides info on what would be run.
2021-06-29 14:40:46	msiism	See `help command`if you're using Bash.
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2021-06-29 14:41:18	ajalaka	and yes set -x prints all executed commands to terminal
2021-06-29 14:41:37	msiism	`command` should be built into any POSIX shell, too.
2021-06-29 14:41:42	DLange	type is still better, tells you functions, aliases and executables
2021-06-29 14:41:46	jiffe	having a function() { } doesn't seem to fall into scripts
2021-06-29 14:42:05	jiffe	which curl
2021-06-29 14:42:08	blackgatonegro	Google Honest ads cloud storage
2021-06-29 14:42:08	DLange	source the file that sets the function
2021-06-29 14:42:16	DLange	which does not respect functions
2021-06-29 14:42:21	ajalaka	^^^^^^
2021-06-29 14:42:24	msiism	DLange: `command` also tells you about aliases, though.
2021-06-29 14:42:27	Guest72	curdlesnoot I need a persistent way of setting system time to a relative UTC value i.e UTC+4; I'm looking for the most reliable way of achieving this and also wondering about the impacts of having /etc/localtime pointing to a certain timezone that might be unrelated to the time I manually set via command line. I want this because /etc/localinfo is
2021-06-29 14:42:27	Guest72	used for timezone info and I cannot just straight away set a UTC relative value :-/
2021-06-29 14:43:23	lantech19446	I have a web server running on LAMP which is on an ubuntu desktop inside a virtual machine, is there some way to copy all the files for the website and preserve the symlinks?
2021-06-29 14:43:25	curdlesnoot	Guest72: what is your input, exactly?
2021-06-29 14:43:42	curdlesnoot	Guest72: (or an example of one)
2021-06-29 14:43:43	jiffe	13:42:16         DLange | which does not respect functions
2021-06-29 14:43:45	jiffe	                                                        │ bdeferme
2021-06-29 14:44:00	jiffe	DLange: I don't have control of all these scripts, some scripts call other scripts which call curl
2021-06-29 14:44:16	DLange	Guest72: of course you can. ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/Etc/GMT+4 /etc/localtime
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2021-06-29 14:44:26	Guest72	curdlesnoot my input is received from a backend running on that machine; the input is a relative UTC value i.e. UTC-1, UTC+4, UTC, etc so I need to take that value and set the system-wide time based on that value and I need this to persist throughout reboots
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2021-06-29 14:44:47	curdlesnoot	Guest72: can you actually write out a specific example? is it an epoch or what?
2021-06-29 14:44:54	DLange	jiffe: if you have a curl in path before /usr/bin it will call that, e.g. a script that does curl -l
2021-06-29 14:44:57	DLange	-k
2021-06-29 14:45:19	Guest72	DLange I noticed GMT+4 was a thing; but what about UTC+03:30 type of value? I don't see :30, :45 type of values in that directory :S
2021-06-29 14:45:33	jiffe	DLange: that is smart
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2021-06-29 14:46:00	DLange	Guest72: come back when you have that problem ;-)
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2021-06-29 14:48:28	Guest72	curdlesnoot the code used to run something like `ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/{timeZoneId} /etc/localtime` and `timeZoneId` would be a value matching what's inside `/usr/share/zoneinfo` but now I need to convert that function to something that uses UTC values. Now what I receive as `timeZoneId` looks exactly like `UTC 04:00` or `UTC 03:30` or `UTC
2021-06-29 14:48:29	Guest72	-11:00` it's the only value I receive; I'm not sure if that's what's you're asking for
2021-06-29 14:49:02	Guest72	DLange but I have this problem? this is exactly the problem I have
2021-06-29 14:49:26	curdlesnoot	Guest72: ok. that's a start. let me tinker with this a moment.
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2021-06-29 14:49:41	Guest72	DLange these are the values I need to be able to set https://tmp.f8.n0.cdn.getcloudapp.com/items/E0uAZyvK/d6bbbddd-c937-47b9-8e34-27a027890a26.png?v=45838fc1cd87a5d96672fae9f751c91a
2021-06-29 14:49:52	Guest72	you can see that there are a lot of
2021-06-29 14:49:55	Shaun	The weirder timezones should be covered by named timezones.  like -3.30 is /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/St_Johns, +3:30 is /usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Tehran
2021-06-29 14:49:57	Guest72	:30, :45 type of relative values
2021-06-29 14:50:12	curdlesnoot	Guest72: you're using GNU date, right?
2021-06-29 14:50:16	DLange	there is no timezone like that, Guest72
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2021-06-29 14:50:49	Shaun	there's not much support for arbitrary timezones, but tzdata is amazingly thorough, so any timezone that actually exists should be named
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2021-06-29 14:51:07	Guest72	Shaun ty I know but the thing is I receive only the UTC value so worst case scenario; I would need to match that UTC value with an existing timezone to set the system to that timezone; and that is a whole other question
2021-06-29 14:51:11	Guest72	@cur
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2021-06-29 14:51:16	Guest72	curdlesnoot yes gnu date
2021-06-29 14:51:58	dviola	so I secure erased this SSD that was previously showing badblocks when running 'badblocks -v /dev/sda', but now after secure erasing it, no badblocks are shown, can someone help me understand this?
2021-06-29 14:52:00	dviola	really confused
2021-06-29 14:52:10	Guest72	DLange Shaun just gave a good example of that: `-3.30 is /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/St_Johns, +3:30 is /usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Tehran`
2021-06-29 14:52:21	Guest72	there are such timezones
2021-06-29 14:52:24	dviola	I used this method for erasing it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Solid_state_drive/Memory_cell_clearing
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2021-06-29 14:52:33	akik	dviola: i don't know about that error, but erasing a ssd doesn't work right with badblocks
2021-06-29 14:52:37	Shaun	Kathmandu is +5:45 too.  there's some very strange timezones.  just not much support for setting them without their names
2021-06-29 14:53:03	dviola	akik: what do you mean "doesn't work right with badblocks"?
2021-06-29 14:53:08	akik	dviola: use hdparm for ata secure erase to do it
2021-06-29 14:53:15	esselfe	you'd want to write a script to parse the input
2021-06-29 14:53:29	curdlesnoot	Guest72: so, it's a little known fact that GNU date allows for the definition of the timezone to be embedded in the date string, in which case the input is interpreted accordingly.
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2021-06-29 14:53:41	akik	dviola: ssd's have this feature called write amplification so the ssd controller decides which part of it is written
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2021-06-29 14:54:05	dviola	what confuses me is that I was getting tons of I/O error previously just by running badblocks on the SSD, now that I run it, I don't get any I/O errors at all
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2021-06-29 14:54:31	dviola	so suddenly the SSD is fine again
2021-06-29 14:54:40	DLange	dviola: the broken flash pages have been replaced with some from the reserve
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2021-06-29 14:54:48	curdlesnoot	Guest72: here is an example: https://termbin.com/a1you. for me, that prints 04:30:00 in my timezone which is correct. the point is that the input time is offset accordingly and you can then use -s instead of -d to set the system clock.
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2021-06-29 14:55:06	dviola	DLange: meaning that I can use it again?
2021-06-29 14:55:25	curdlesnoot	Guest72: and it doesn't matter what /etc/localtime is. it's simply not relevant.
2021-06-29 14:55:32	DLange	dviola: sure, just check smart to see how much over-provisioning is left
2021-06-29 14:55:32	dviola	s/error/errors/
2021-06-29 14:55:51	Guest72	curdlesnoot that was the first question I had; I initially thought I'd set the date time manually by passing the modified time directly but then again I wonder how I would persist that datetime value after reboots and if it would mess with what's set inside /etc/localtime
2021-06-29 14:55:56	DLange	'cause you'll only find data errors on read (which is what badblocks does)
2021-06-29 14:56:08	curdlesnoot	Guest72: or, to put it another way, /etc/localtime only informs how it's displayed with -d. it doesn't inform how the input is interpreted.
2021-06-29 14:56:11	Guest72	curdlesnoot it's not just a one time deal; it to set the complete system-wide datetime value
2021-06-29 14:56:45	esselfe	set RTC
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2021-06-29 14:56:55	curdlesnoot	Guest72: how it is persisted isn't your problem. the kernel will do that for you and the default of every distribution is to use UTC.
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2021-06-29 14:57:05	akik	DLange: how do you see that statistics of a ssd? (reserve)
2021-06-29 14:57:16	dviola	DLange: http://ix.io/3rvb
2021-06-29 14:57:32	curdlesnoot	Guest72: what's important - given you're trying to use date(1) - is that date understands whether the *input* should be offset according to a given timezone.
2021-06-29 14:57:33	knocktwice	Guest72: there's probably a way to create your own custom time-zone to place in /usr/share/zoneinfo/
2021-06-29 14:58:03	curdlesnoot	Guest72: please try out the example. it might become clearer.
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2021-06-29 15:01:32	DLange	dviola: that disk does not report spare blocks, but SSD_Life_Left looks reasonable, so it thinks it is still fine to use
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2021-06-29 15:02:43	dviola	DLange: does the SSD_Life_Left value decreases as the SSD wears?
2021-06-29 15:02:49	Guest72	curdlesnoot I do understand that the system datetime value is UTC; and that it's only being formatted by date using the value inside /etc/localinfo; maybe at this point I just thought too much about it and my brain is frying XD  because I'm not sure I understand if we're on the same page; I need to run that `date` command once and have the system
2021-06-29 15:02:49	Guest72	time to be set to that value and be kept to that value after reboot. thanks for your help and for bearing with my retardation. I'm still processing the information; I guess I'm close to that "eureka" moment hehe
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2021-06-29 15:03:03	DLange	dviola: yes, typically from 100 down to 0
2021-06-29 15:03:07	Guest72	knocktwice that's an interesting way of doing it; I guess that could be feasible
2021-06-29 15:03:08	curdlesnoot	Guest72: don't worry. it can get really confusing, fast.
2021-06-29 15:03:09	dviola	DLange: I see, thanks
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2021-06-29 15:03:27	curdlesnoot	Guest72: but yes, that's right. /etc/localtime is mainly about adjusting dates and times just at the point that they're displayed.
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2021-06-29 15:04:14	curdlesnoot	Guest72: but your problem seems to be about telling date how to offset its input. that's where you can embed TZ in the given date string (rather than define it in the environment of date, which does something else).
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2021-06-29 15:04:38	bewees	without a graphic card I won't be able to install linux with a display, even not terminal? for example a ryzen 3900x with a ryzen motherboard that supports igpu still won't work as the 3900x has no igpu support?
2021-06-29 15:05:07	DLange	Linux won't care but typically the mainboard won't boot
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2021-06-29 15:05:29	curdlesnoot	Guest72: try running that example again with given_tz set to something other than UTC, then adding -u to date's options so that it's normalised to UTC upon displaying. you'll clearly see that the input time is correctly adjusted.
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2021-06-29 15:06:10	curdlesnoot	and that exact same mechanism should work for -s, in the course of setting the system clock.
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2021-06-29 15:06:20	bewees	DLange: true, I could also just install the system in a chroot environment on another gpu capable computer. as for the mainboard: is there a way to workaround the power on self test?
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2021-06-29 15:06:33	bewees	or do only server enterprise motherboard support booting without graphic card
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2021-06-29 15:06:50	DLange	bewees: yes, typically
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2021-06-29 15:07:24	DLange	of course this all depends on BIOS / Firmware but if you cannot access the BIOS config, you typically cannot use a system reasonably either
2021-06-29 15:07:25	bewees	in that case, would I still be able to see at least a terminal on a non-gpu capable motherboard? or how do they install their systems?
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2021-06-29 15:07:51	bewees	I think they use serial terminals? (guess)
2021-06-29 15:07:57	curdlesnoot	Guest72: as an aside, you can use arithmetic operators within the given date string to subtract and add quantities of time. GNU date is pretty powerful.
2021-06-29 15:07:57	DLange	they have a gfx chip that can create remote sessions
2021-06-29 15:08:07	bewees	hmm I see
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2021-06-29 15:09:36	DLange	curdlesnoot: and in an hour he'll find he only has busybox date ;-)
2021-06-29 15:09:40	kurahaupo	randomuser: getcwd may return "." if you do not have permission to traverse the path from the root directory to your current directory, reading each successive subdirectory . This may be hidden by a cached PWD environment variable
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2021-06-29 15:09:45	curdlesnoot	DLange: ha ha
2021-06-29 15:09:59	curdlesnoot	DLange: that would really suck.
2021-06-29 15:10:00	BCMM	bewees: in your original question; i'm not sure how you're proposing to plug a "display" in
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2021-06-29 15:10:02	DLange	kurahaupo: ECHAN?
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2021-06-29 15:10:32	Guest72	curdlesnoot I just learned a whole lot right now, date is indeed pretty freaking cool :D thanks for that but I'm still under the impression that I haven't expressed the question clearly; my question is actually about setting system time based on that UTC value i.e. I want the same effect as if I'd set a different timezone and then `date` would
2021-06-29 15:10:32	Guest72	give me a new value based on that new timezone.
2021-06-29 15:10:44	Guest72	damn my head hurts LOL I'll get there; thanks all for your help and for bearing with me
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2021-06-29 15:11:09	curdlesnoot	Guest72: ok, let me put this briefly.
2021-06-29 15:11:09	DLange	<DLange> Guest72: Linux computers, even embedded ones, run the clock in UTC. Just the display is depending on TZ settings
2021-06-29 15:11:10	Kyv	Guest72: Do you just want to set the system clock to UTC?
2021-06-29 15:11:22	BCMM	bewees: but you can certainly install linux with no display, e.g. using another PC connected via serial. there are even live environments that you can configure to start an ssh server on boot.
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2021-06-29 15:11:48	DLange	THERE IS NO "system time based on UTC offsets"
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2021-06-29 15:11:54	curdlesnoot	Guest72: if you set TZ in the environment of date _or_ you use the -u option (which is equivalent to setting TZ=UTC in its environment) and you use date for display purposes, then the output would be adjusted accordingly.
2021-06-29 15:11:57	DLange	got it? Read that line again!
2021-06-29 15:12:30	curdlesnoot	Guest72: on the other hand, if you set TZ in the input (the date string given to -s or -d), the input will be taken as if it was in the specified timezone.
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2021-06-29 15:12:49	bewees	DLange: i found few asus motherboards that support booting without gpu and some asrock motherboards that have an actual gpu onboard for booting. both for ryzen cpus, thanks! :-)
2021-06-29 15:13:00	DLange	coolio
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2021-06-29 15:13:13	DLange	and then continue saving for a decent gfx card these days :D
2021-06-29 15:13:17	curdlesnoot	Guest72: as best as I've been able to gather, your problem revolves around interpreting the input correctly. as long as the input is correct, -s will set the system clock correctly.
2021-06-29 15:13:19	kurahaupo	DLange: ahem. gettimeofday() includes  an offset, but nobody ever sets it any more.
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2021-06-29 15:13:35	bewees	BCMM: yeah! I probably just add the SSD to my other system, chroot into it and make it ssh ready, alternatively use my serial cable
2021-06-29 15:13:38	DLange	kurahaupo: I know, depreciated
2021-06-29 15:13:49	curdlesnoot	Guest72: ok, that wasn't as brief as I'd hoped but I tried.
2021-06-29 15:14:12	BCMM	bewees: yeah, you could just do the install with the disk attached to a different machine. that's probably the easy option
2021-06-29 15:14:32	 *	kurahaupo would like to deprecate financial depreciation
2021-06-29 15:15:07	BCMM	bewees: but you could also, for example, put GRML on a USB stick, and set it up so it boots with `ssh=your_password` by default
2021-06-29 15:15:56	BCMM	then you just put it in the headless machine, wait for it to finish booting up, figure out what IP address it got assigned and ssh it
2021-06-29 15:16:28	BCMM	(and then install a distro on the disk using e.g. debootstrap)
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2021-06-29 15:17:15	BCMM	(making sure it's set up to boot from USB without using a monitor to play with the settings might be a problem on consumer hardware)
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2021-06-29 15:18:45	bewees	 BCMM oh yeah that would also be an option, so I think i won't buy a graphic card for that system. I think forwarded X with ssh should work too, as only the ssh client requires a graphic card right?
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2021-06-29 15:19:15	bewees	(sometimes i use gparted over ssh -x to partition through its gui)
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2021-06-29 15:49:09	BCMM	that should work, yes
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2021-06-29 15:54:29	Dagmar	-X
2021-06-29 15:54:33	Dagmar	(and sometimes -Y)
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2021-06-29 16:00:43	octav1a	Usb headset worked fine yesterday, but now it won't show in sound devices. Tried a few USB ports. dmesg shows the device detected without error. What can I try to get it to show up in the list of available sound devices? I'm on pop-os but I'm guessing this is a more general issue.
2021-06-29 16:00:50	b0rf	test
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2021-06-29 16:01:03	octav1a	(pactl list short sinks only shows one device)
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2021-06-29 16:01:58	agentcasey	octav1a try bluetoothctl
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2021-06-29 16:03:26	octav1a	agentcasey: Can you elaborate...slightly? What kind of strategy would I be doing with the bluetooth?
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2021-06-29 16:04:08	Dagmar	Absolutely none unless it's a bluetooth headset
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2021-06-29 16:04:20	octav1a	It is not.
2021-06-29 16:04:29	agentcasey	sorry i assumed it was a bluetooth
2021-06-29 16:04:48	octav1a	It's USB
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2021-06-29 16:05:21	c705	anyone using bubblejail in production? anyone got decent documentation besides the man page and github page?
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2021-06-29 16:05:57	agentcasey	octav1a how about restarting pulseaudio?
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2021-06-29 16:06:37	mekeor	hello :) is it possible to create some sort of magic file so that "echo foo > magic-file" writes "foo" in a file via SSH, say ssh://some-server:/some-path/some-file?
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2021-06-29 16:06:55	matsaman	mekeor: yup
2021-06-29 16:07:03	Dagmar	Not without an sshfs mount and possibly autofs being involved as well
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2021-06-29 16:07:26	matsaman	or keys setup, or passwordless, etc. etc.
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2021-06-29 16:07:47	octav1a	agentcasey: Tried this: killall pulseaudio; pulseaudio -k  ; rm -r ~/.config/pulse/* ; rm -r ~/.pulse*
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2021-06-29 16:08:57	agentcasey	pulseaudio --start
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2021-06-29 16:09:16	mekeor	Dagmar: thanks for pointing to sshfs :)
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2021-06-29 16:09:42	octav1a	agentcasey: yup, I think we read the same google result there.
2021-06-29 16:09:45	Dagmar	You're going to want to wrap it with autofs
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2021-06-29 16:09:53	agentcasey	don't use google
2021-06-29 16:10:06	Dagmar	agentcasey: Yes, it's always best to just guess blindly
2021-06-29 16:10:19	neshpion	use a searx instance :^)
2021-06-29 16:10:35	sudomann	If i run Ubuntu im vmware, are the files perfectly readable by inspecting the .vmx file?
2021-06-29 16:10:46	sudomann	Defeating the use of a password login in the OS?
2021-06-29 16:10:59	akik	sudomann: you can mount the virtual hdd image
2021-06-29 16:11:27	kurahaupo	mekeor: yes. Use a named pipe, and have a process that reads from it and sends the content. In a loop
2021-06-29 16:11:42	SofS	Is there are WebRtc test site where choosing the video codec is possible? I am testing Firefox with media.webrtc.platformencoder in my Fedora laptop and I want to compare the packages. For some reason it seems only VP8 is being used.
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2021-06-29 16:13:04	matsaman	SofS: you want to compare like h264/mp4 to vp8/webm?
2021-06-29 16:13:12	sudomann	akik, this is new to me - are these the vmdk files?
2021-06-29 16:13:13	Dagmar	SofS: There's a reason for that https://webrtc.github.io/webrtc-org/faq/#what-codecs-are-supported-in-webrtc
2021-06-29 16:13:31	octav1a	Well, I guess it's just borked.
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2021-06-29 16:13:45	SofS	VP8 VP9 and AV1, but also some packages like libdav1d and svt
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2021-06-29 16:14:27	akik	sudomann: i'll check
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2021-06-29 16:16:23	akik	sudomann: this page lists the command to mount a vmdk image with qemu-nbd: https://stackoverflow.com/a/49000377
2021-06-29 16:16:43	akik	sudomann: "For .vmdk disks"
2021-06-29 16:16:54	agentcasey	octav1a do you see your device listed when you enter lsusb?
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2021-06-29 16:18:50	octav1a	agentcasey: yes, I see it there as "C-Media Electronics, Inc. Audio Adapter"
2021-06-29 16:19:05	sudomann	akik, i see, thanks a lot
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2021-06-29 16:19:25	Dagmar	sudomann: Get used to the idea that you shoudl allow only trusted users on the vmhost itself
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2021-06-29 16:20:25	sudomann	Well I was sorta hoping to set up all my work stuff in a vm, so I could move the vm between my machines as necessary
2021-06-29 16:20:42	Dagmar	Well, that you can do
2021-06-29 16:20:46	sudomann	I just thought it would be nice for no one to be able to view the files without knowing my password
2021-06-29 16:20:59	SofS	Dagmar: Thanks. So it seems AV1 is still not available for WebRTC, but VP9 certainly is, there is even the Firefox config option media.navigator.mediadatadecoder_vpx_enabled
2021-06-29 16:21:03	Dagmar	If the system is active, that's going to be a risk from the hypervisor host, always
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2021-06-29 16:21:39	Dagmar	SofS: That's probably for the best since AVI is a moderately terrible container
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2021-06-29 16:21:58	Dagmar	It is _not_ a codec
2021-06-29 16:22:00	sudomann	Oh i see, I know nothing about that level :(
2021-06-29 16:22:16	hodapp	AV1, not AVI.
2021-06-29 16:22:24	Dagmar	sudomann: You can at least make things much harder by using full disk encryption on the VM
2021-06-29 16:22:41	Dagmar	hodapp: Ahhh
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2021-06-29 16:24:06	agentcasey	octav1a if you have pavucontrol open it up and go to configuration see if your device is set
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2021-06-29 16:25:35	SofS	Any idea what platform encoder Firefox uses for VP9? I have gstreamer1-svt-vp9 and svt-vp and ffmpeg installed and it seems the encoding might be the reason why I am not using it since decoding works fine.
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2021-06-29 16:25:54	octav1a	agentcasey: I just see "HDA Nvidia" and "Built-in audio"
2021-06-29 16:25:58	octav1a	no usb.
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2021-06-29 16:27:09	agentcasey	plug it out and change change usb ports
2021-06-29 16:27:15	matsaman	SofS: I thought it used ffmpeg for all of it, but that's just a recollection
2021-06-29 16:27:38	matsaman	#firefox or mozilla's chat network might be more enlightening
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2021-06-29 16:28:28	octav1a	agentcasey: I've tried all three USB ports.
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2021-06-29 16:28:48	agentcasey	sorry
2021-06-29 16:28:56	Dagmar	Probably a device permissions issue then
2021-06-29 16:29:01	sudomann	Dagmar, WOW setting that up is much more involved than I wouldve thought :(  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019
2021-06-29 16:29:25	agentcasey	octav1a yes are you in group audio
2021-06-29 16:30:05	Dagmar	sudomann: Well, setting it up yourself from the get-go is complex.  Most of the major distributions support just letting you tick a box at installation time and they handle the fine details from there.
2021-06-29 16:30:58	octav1a	agentcasey:
2021-06-29 16:31:00	octav1a	no
2021-06-29 16:31:32	sudomann	I'm no high value target, so I dont have to worry about this really, but it was this line in the guide that got me interested in "doing it right"
2021-06-29 16:31:35	sudomann	"However, this is much better than the Ubuntu installer Encrypt Disk option which only supports encrypting the operating system partition but leaves the boot-loader second stage file-system unencrypted and therefore vulnerable to tampering of the GRUB configuration, Linux kernel or more likely, the initial RAM file-system (initrd.img)."
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2021-06-29 16:31:51	octav1a	Why would this not be a default for this desktop environment if it was required. :/
2021-06-29 16:32:00	Dagmar	sudomann: It's not required is why
2021-06-29 16:32:09	agentcasey	okay i'd start there. less /etc/group |grep -i audio and make sure
2021-06-29 16:32:11	Dagmar	..and it doesn't increase the overall security very much a all.
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2021-06-29 16:32:53	octav1a	yeah I see it's available there.
2021-06-29 16:33:03	agentcasey	well less /etc/group |grep -i $your-user-name
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2021-06-29 16:33:19	Dagmar	sudomann: The only thing that does is make tampering with the disk slightly harder if someone who shoudln't gets control of it.
2021-06-29 16:33:21	octav1a	I'm guessing I'mm need to restart for that to take effect though which will kind of ruin my debugging effort should this happen again.
2021-06-29 16:33:29	Dagmar	...and I do mean _slightly_
2021-06-29 16:34:09	Dagmar	Unless you're taking the time to carefulyl examine the disk to be sure everything is just how you left it before you _power it up and type in your precious password_ there's not a lot of point in encrypting /boot
2021-06-29 16:34:17	agentcasey	no you may wish to sudo usermod -aG audio $your-user-name
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2021-06-29 16:34:33	octav1a	agentcasey: yup, but that won't take effect right away.
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2021-06-29 16:35:15	agentcasey	no, you'll have to either leave and re-enter the shell or reboot, something like that
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2021-06-29 16:35:35	agentcasey	you know logout and log back in
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2021-06-29 16:46:33	sudomann	"Use LVM with the new Ubuntu installation" vs "Erase disk and use ZFS"
2021-06-29 16:46:45	sudomann	Unsure which to choose
2021-06-29 16:47:00	Dagmar	well, if you don't know anyting about ZFS, use LVM
2021-06-29 16:47:32	Sauvin	Besides, I've heard zfs can be a memory hog.
2021-06-29 16:48:38	Dagmar	For simple workstations, it'll just be "new for the sake of new" which does more harm than good
2021-06-29 16:49:04	matsaman	sudomann: what Dagmar said
2021-06-29 16:49:18	matsaman	no idea why they put it that way, though
2021-06-29 16:49:31	matsaman	considering LVM and ZFS as alternatives is kinda weird
2021-06-29 16:49:45	matsaman	but Ubuntu is a weird place
2021-06-29 16:49:46	Dagmar	matsaman: Mainly because the people in charge of Ubuntu are barely out of their teens
2021-06-29 16:49:53	jim	sudomann, LVM gives you things like partitions, you can put whatever filesystem you want in them
2021-06-29 16:49:55	matsaman	for totes
2021-06-29 16:49:55	sudomann	lmao
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2021-06-29 16:50:37	bewees	When using linux with KVM/QEMU, then you need to have all hardware you need in the guest VMs available on the host, such as networking, because with KVM/QEMU we don't have the additional hypervisor layer that's included in Xen. With Xen you can have dom0 without networking and use a domU to do it, right?
2021-06-29 16:51:15	matsaman	there's basically no reason to use Xen for years now
2021-06-29 16:51:15	MrPockets	Any of you using open source CRMs?
2021-06-29 16:51:34	matsaman	if you want serious virtualization, you aren't even virtualizing hardware, you're using lxc or the like
2021-06-29 16:51:47	akik	bewees: what hardware do you mean?
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2021-06-29 16:52:43	matsaman	MrPockets: isn't that all snake oil?
2021-06-29 16:52:48	bewees	matsaman: lxc is less isolated than hypervisor type 1 afaik
2021-06-29 16:52:53	MrPockets	matsaman,
2021-06-29 16:53:04	MrPockets	(sorry, premature on enter).  that was follow up question #1
2021-06-29 16:53:20	bewees	akik: such as networking, gpu or other hardware resources
2021-06-29 16:53:22	MrPockets	I just started looking into odoo, and it actually seems halfway decent for a "we're in our infancy and I don'
2021-06-29 16:53:26	MrPockets	t want to spend any money
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2021-06-29 16:54:32	akik	bewees: i use virtio for vga/netdev so i guess they are virtualized by qemu
2021-06-29 16:54:43	Sauvin	bewees, please use "as far as I know" instead of "afaik".
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2021-06-29 16:55:01	MrPockets	Sauvin, ?
2021-06-29 16:55:02	bewees	Sauvin: Ok :-)
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2021-06-29 16:55:31	bewees	akik: virtio is paravirtualized I believe
2021-06-29 16:55:35	kurahaupo	agentcasey: usernames and groupnames are case sensitive, so "grep -i" would be misleading
2021-06-29 16:55:49	neshpion	MrPockets: SMS-like writing is bannenated in #linux
2021-06-29 16:55:50	akik	-device virtio-net,netdev=vmnic and -vga virtio
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2021-06-29 16:56:48	agentcasey	kurahaupo perhaps but i'm assuming the person knows his/her username
2021-06-29 16:57:41	kurahaupo	neshpion: Are neologisms like "bannenated" also discouraged?
2021-06-29 16:57:50	 *	neshpion hides
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2021-06-29 16:58:36	kimahri	How does one go about disallowing flash drives to run whilst at the lock screen?
2021-06-29 16:58:39	kurahaupo	agentcasey: rather than "less /etc/group" I think perhaps you were looking for "getent group".
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2021-06-29 17:01:08	SofS	Just for the record, I have found this https://mozilla.github.io/webrtc-landing/pc_test.html
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2021-06-29 17:04:14	agentcasey	kurahaupo yes that works nicely
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2021-06-29 17:13:58	c705	anyone know offhand if irssi is using dbus?
2021-06-29 17:14:05	c705	i could strace it but i'm lazy
2021-06-29 17:14:24	MrPockets	i, as well, am lazy.
2021-06-29 17:14:32	hodapp	I'm too lazy to even finish writing th
2021-06-29 17:14:41	c705	sheessh
2021-06-29 17:14:41	akik	c705: try dbus-monitor
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2021-06-29 17:15:40	c705	akik: genius
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2021-06-29 17:16:34	akik	thank you :)
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2021-06-29 17:17:51	akik	i'm using irssi but i was too lazy
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2021-06-29 17:32:36	retrosenator	I am using dd to write disk image to many sd cards
2021-06-29 17:32:50	retrosenator	after 4 or 5 cards it just returns right away and claims 256mb/s which is a lie
2021-06-29 17:32:58	themachine	what is the command you are doing
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2021-06-29 17:33:21	retrosenator	dd if=file.img of=/dev/sda bs=4M
2021-06-29 17:33:37	retrosenator	and of course no data is written
2021-06-29 17:33:50	themachine	is the attached card locked?
2021-06-29 17:33:51	retrosenator	in the past I just have to reboot after 4-5 cards to continue writing more
2021-06-29 17:33:59	retrosenator	rebooting fixes the issue
2021-06-29 17:34:00	themachine	huh
2021-06-29 17:34:01	retrosenator	it is not locked
2021-06-29 17:34:17	themachine	what does dmesg say
2021-06-29 17:34:18	akik	retrosenator: run sync after dd
2021-06-29 17:34:21	retrosenator	akik: I did
2021-06-29 17:34:34	akik	retrosenator: oh you didn't say that
2021-06-29 17:34:35	retrosenator	dmesg shows nothing unusual
2021-06-29 17:34:53	retrosenator	it is trying to be smartI think
2021-06-29 17:34:58	rascul	try pv
2021-06-29 17:35:08	rascul	pv file.img > /dev/sda
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2021-06-29 17:35:51	b0b	or oflag=direct with dd
2021-06-29 17:35:59	retrosenator	same problem
2021-06-29 17:36:06	retrosenator	I tried already with direct flag
2021-06-29 17:36:24	retrosenator	it works for iflag, for oflag it says invalid arg
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2021-06-29 17:36:31	akik	retrosenator: did that sd card get mounted automatically?
2021-06-29 17:36:34	retrosenator	but it doesnt actually work
2021-06-29 17:36:40	retrosenator	no the card is not mounted auto
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2021-06-29 17:37:03	retrosenator	with pv shows a write speed of 190MiB/s which is impossible
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2021-06-29 17:38:07	retrosenator	yeah its just impossible to write the sd image
2021-06-29 17:38:39	akik	retrosenator: do you see some problems in dmesg about the card giving this problem?
2021-06-29 17:38:40	retrosenator	tried echoing 3 to drop caches
2021-06-29 17:38:48	rascul	are you sure it's /dev/sda ?
2021-06-29 17:38:49	retrosenator	nothing unusual in dmesg
2021-06-29 17:38:53	retrosenator	I tried a bunch of cards
2021-06-29 17:38:58	retrosenator	yes
2021-06-29 17:39:13	akik	baffled, i am
2021-06-29 17:39:18	retrosenator	i am too
2021-06-29 17:39:24	retrosenator	dd shows 282MB/s
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2021-06-29 17:39:47	akik	retrosenator: can you read that sd card into a file?
2021-06-29 17:39:50	b0b	file -s /dev/sda
2021-06-29 17:39:51	retrosenator	I think some clever developers tried to make it smart and assumed no one would repeatedly write the same image to lots of cards
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2021-06-29 17:40:06	retrosenator	if I mount the sd card it is empty
2021-06-29 17:40:11	retrosenator	nothing is actually written
2021-06-29 17:40:14	curdlesnoot	b0b: good call
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2021-06-29 17:40:48	retrosenator	yea I can read it with file -s, and it shows the same empty fat partition the card comes with new
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2021-06-29 17:41:34	retrosenator	i'm trying writing /dev/urandom to it...
2021-06-29 17:41:46	retrosenator	seems to be taking a while now, so maybe that will reset it
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2021-06-29 17:43:16	retrosenator	well that doesnt work either nothing gets written
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2021-06-29 17:43:25	rascul	anything in dmesg?
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2021-06-29 17:43:39	b0b	tried writing another image to it at that point?
2021-06-29 17:43:42	themachine	the fact that a reboot fixes it is the most interesting part of this
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2021-06-29 17:44:02	retrosenator	yeah Ive had this problem before and always just rebooted in frustration
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2021-06-29 17:44:06	rascul	if you can determine the kernel module in use then perhaps try reloading it
2021-06-29 17:44:08	retrosenator	sometimes rebooting 3-4 times to get them all written
2021-06-29 17:44:13	retrosenator	nothing interesting in dmesg
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2021-06-29 17:44:49	retrosenator	I tried lsmod with and without the card plugged and they are identical
2021-06-29 17:45:05	rascul	maybe it's the sdhci module
2021-06-29 17:45:16	retrosenator	oh wait no its nls_iso8859_1
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2021-06-29 17:45:23	retrosenator	and ums_realtek
2021-06-29 17:45:36	akik	retrosenator: maybe it's as simple as that sd card is broken
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2021-06-29 17:46:01	akik	retrosenator: although in case i'd expect something to show in dmesg
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2021-06-29 17:46:33	retrosenator	i tried several cards
2021-06-29 17:46:37	retrosenator	the cards are all fine
2021-06-29 17:46:44	retrosenator	new cards
2021-06-29 17:46:44	rascul	try reloading ums_realtek driver
2021-06-29 17:47:43	retrosenator	doesnt help
2021-06-29 17:47:53	retrosenator	I can't reload nls_iso8859_1 it is "in use"
2021-06-29 17:47:56	akik	retrosenator: you saying that the card has the same fat partition as new seems to say there's a problem with the sd card as your writing doesn't destroy the partition table
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2021-06-29 17:48:42	retrosenator	akik: I have tried 5 new cards
2021-06-29 17:48:54	retrosenator	I cannot dd to any of them, it just says 280mb/s and finishes quickly but nothing is written
2021-06-29 17:49:03	retrosenator	I had this problem before, I know if I reboot it will work again
2021-06-29 17:49:12	akik	retrosenator: you said 4 cards were ok?
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2021-06-29 17:49:24	retrosenator	the first 4 worked
2021-06-29 17:49:29	retrosenator	and it wrote at 15MB/s
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2021-06-29 17:50:04	retrosenator	ok sigh
2021-06-29 17:50:13	retrosenator	I will try suspend rather than reboot
2021-06-29 17:50:51	retrosenator	didnt help
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2021-06-29 17:51:23	rascul	try setting /sys/module/ums_realtek/parameters/ss_en and /sys/module/ums_realtek/parameters/auto_delink_en to 0
2021-06-29 17:51:37	rascul	then maybe re-insert card after that
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2021-06-29 17:52:34	retrosenator	rascul: thanks for the idea but it did not help
2021-06-29 17:52:49	retrosenator	I verified these were 1 with cat and now they are 0
2021-06-29 17:53:15	akik	retrosenator: do you accept that devices can break? how old are these cards?
2021-06-29 17:53:25	retrosenator	they are brand new cards
2021-06-29 17:53:28	retrosenator	all of them
2021-06-29 17:53:34	retrosenator	I can in fact, not write to any sd card
2021-06-29 17:53:41	akik	huh
2021-06-29 17:53:53	retrosenator	not without rebooting
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2021-06-29 17:54:01	akik	do you have an adapter for them? maybe that's broken?
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2021-06-29 17:54:13	retrosenator	its the same brand new adaptor I just used to write the first 4
2021-06-29 17:54:18	retrosenator	its microsd to sd adaptor
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2021-06-29 17:54:34	akik	does it have a write-protect switch?
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2021-06-29 17:55:37	retrosenator	ok so I put a file on the fat partition it comes with
2021-06-29 17:55:39	retrosenator	and that did work
2021-06-29 17:55:54	retrosenator	I was able to switch cards and see empty nothing there, then switch back and find the file
2021-06-29 17:55:59	retrosenator	just dd cannot write to the card
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2021-06-29 17:56:37	akoana	what's your  dd --version ?
2021-06-29 17:56:44	retrosenator	pv didnt do better
2021-06-29 17:56:54	retrosenator	dd version 8.30
2021-06-29 17:56:55	akik	retrosenator: try on another computer if you have one
2021-06-29 17:57:02	akoana	ok
2021-06-29 17:57:11	retrosenator	yeah I can just reboot and it will work for a few more times
2021-06-29 17:57:12	b0b	what about ddrescue?
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2021-06-29 17:57:37	retrosenator	I think its a bug in kernel space but I will try ddrescue
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2021-06-29 17:59:04	retrosenator	dd rescue is same result
2021-06-29 17:59:16	retrosenator	225Mb/s which is impossible for an sd card
2021-06-29 17:59:29	retrosenator	ok i just have to reboot
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2021-06-29 17:59:51	retrosenator	where would I report this ??  its easy to reproduce it happens every time after writing the image to enough cards
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2021-06-29 18:00:04	akik	retrosenator: first try to find where the problem comes from
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2021-06-29 18:00:42	retrosenator	doesnt seem to be from the program dd since pv and ddrescue are the same
2021-06-29 18:01:02	retrosenator	well if I could reload nls_iso8859_1
2021-06-29 18:01:08	akik	there's no commmon problem with writing storage devices
2021-06-29 18:01:25	retrosenator	it says in use..  how do I find out what is using it??
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2021-06-29 18:01:49	akik	i can try writing this usb stick i have 5 times in a row
2021-06-29 18:02:04	retrosenator	I can try with a usb adaptor
2021-06-29 18:02:14	retrosenator	if I can find it..
2021-06-29 18:02:18	akik	retrosenator: so something mounted it?
2021-06-29 18:02:28	akik	retrosenator: findmnt
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2021-06-29 18:04:20	sudomann	I used `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jconti/recent-notifications` and got a warning updating could not be done securely
2021-06-29 18:04:25	sudomann	how do i remedy that
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2021-06-29 18:05:03	retrosenator	no I killed pcmanqt-fm which automounts stuff it has other bugs anyway
2021-06-29 18:05:11	akik	lol
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2021-06-29 18:05:21	retrosenator	like preventing me from scrolling with the touchpad
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2021-06-29 18:05:36	retrosenator	i know its crazy but killing that fixes it and this also seemingly happens at random
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2021-06-29 18:05:46	akik	so you had a program automounting the sd card all this time?
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2021-06-29 18:06:39	retrosenator	ok is this netsplit?!
2021-06-29 18:06:44	akik	no
2021-06-29 18:06:45	retrosenator	ok wow, usb adaptor has same result
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2021-06-29 18:06:53	jim	the matrix guys are messin with a bridge
2021-06-29 18:06:55	retrosenator	as builtin reader (which is usb based)
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2021-06-29 18:07:44	retrosenator	rmmod: ERROR: Module nls_iso8859_1 is in use
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2021-06-29 18:07:52	retrosenator	how do I find out what uses it so I can unload that?
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2021-06-29 18:08:27	retrosenator	its not listed in lsmod
2021-06-29 18:08:54	retrosenator	just says used by 1, but nothing after
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2021-06-29 18:09:30	knocktwice	why do you want to unload it?
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2021-06-29 18:10:02	akik	huh
2021-06-29 18:10:06	akik	gone
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2021-06-29 18:10:19	rascul	that's not the sd card driver anyway
2021-06-29 18:10:46	akik	damn sure there'll be non-intended results if you write on a mounted fs
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2021-06-29 18:11:32	retrosenator	ok I may be an idiot
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2021-06-29 18:11:45	retrosenator	I found afer rebooting the file /dev/sda exists
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2021-06-29 18:11:50	retrosenator	as  file on disk
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2021-06-29 18:12:40	retrosenator	it was actually writing to a file on disk rather than the device
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2021-06-29 18:12:58	retrosenator	yeah
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2021-06-29 18:13:38	b0b	that's even better than the write-protect switch :p
2021-06-29 18:13:39	akik	retrosenator: in /dev/sda ?
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2021-06-29 18:13:57	akik	so you don't have a device /dev/sda ?
2021-06-29 18:13:57	retrosenator	yeah lol, I didnt realize I could create files on disk in /dev
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2021-06-29 18:14:04	retrosenator	it was a file not a device
2021-06-29 18:14:09	retrosenator	I did rm /dev/sda
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2021-06-29 18:14:12	retrosenator	and fixed it
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2021-06-29 18:14:20	akik	dmesg would show it
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2021-06-29 18:14:50	retrosenator	yeah i must have read too fast
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2021-06-29 18:14:57	retrosenator	sorry i'm an idiot sometimes
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2021-06-29 18:15:03	retrosenator	i was looking for errors
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2021-06-29 18:16:49	themachine	haha
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2021-06-29 18:16:57	retrosenator	ill remember /dev is a good place to stash files
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2021-06-29 18:17:07	themachine	ummmmm
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2021-06-29 18:19:47	retrosenator	well at least the problem makes complete sense now
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2021-06-29 18:22:49	greatcoof	hi
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2021-06-29 18:23:02	akik	it's always good to double check the device that is written to with dd :)
2021-06-29 18:23:20	retrosenator	i had no idea I could put a 1gb file in /dev
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2021-06-29 18:23:45	themachine	well /dev is just a directory
2021-06-29 18:23:48	themachine	just like every other directory
2021-06-29 18:24:11	retrosenator	yeah
2021-06-29 18:24:18	akik	/dev is devtmpfs on my system
2021-06-29 18:24:22	knocktwice	you could check available partitions with 'cat /proc/partitions'
2021-06-29 18:24:38	knocktwice	I always do that before writing an SDCard or usb stick.
2021-06-29 18:24:43	akoana	you can put the whole universe into /dev/....
2021-06-29 18:24:54	akoana	/dev/null ;)
2021-06-29 18:24:56	rascul	get your universe out of my /dev
2021-06-29 18:24:58	akik	can you download the internet into /dev ?
2021-06-29 18:25:05	retrosenator	it must have hiccupped and put the device on sdb once and this is what causes it
2021-06-29 18:25:23	rascul	https://www.w3schools.com/downloadwww.htm
2021-06-29 18:25:45	akoana	kol
2021-06-29 18:25:49	akoana	lol*
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2021-06-29 18:27:15	jim	retrosenator, might be good to be independent of names like /dev/sdbN, at least for the purpose of mounting from /etc/fstab... you could name the partition, or you could use LVM
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2021-06-29 18:31:45	themachine	jim: he wasn't mounting, he was dding
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2021-06-29 18:31:58	themachine	and not verifying what device he wanted to be writing to
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2021-06-29 18:33:37	curdlesnoot	what could possibly go wrong
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2021-06-29 18:35:00	themachine	>see scrollbcak
2021-06-29 18:35:03	themachine	scrollback*
2021-06-29 18:35:06	themachine	:)
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2021-06-29 19:38:07	curdlesnoot	themachine: would you be so kind as to put them out of their misery and mention !dotglob
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2021-06-29 19:39:15	--	JanC_ is now known as JanC
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2021-06-29 19:40:00	themachine	i actually didn't know about that
2021-06-29 19:40:43	themachine	but now I know
2021-06-29 19:41:54	jim	themachine, hmm, maybe it was busy for dd -because- it was mounted
2021-06-29 19:42:15	themachine	well the user *said* it wasn't mounted
2021-06-29 19:42:49	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-29 19:42:50	jim	then what would the other possibilities be
2021-06-29 19:42:58	curdlesnoot	themachine: ah. I can't speak there and was on the verge of screaming at my screen.
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2021-06-29 19:43:13	themachine	jim: he dd'd /dev/sda but there was no /dev/sda
2021-06-29 19:43:29	themachine	so he created a file at /dev/sda
2021-06-29 19:43:44	<--	koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-29 19:43:57	jim	hmm, there's screenscraping, and now there's screenscreaming?
2021-06-29 19:44:48	curdlesnoot	jim: probably not a common enough situation to merit special terminology but why not.
2021-06-29 19:45:30	themachine	tl;dr, make sure the disk is actually at the location you expect it to when using dd
2021-06-29 19:45:48	themachine	lol why can you speak there?
2021-06-29 19:46:04	curdlesnoot	stubborness. I don't want to register.
2021-06-29 19:46:05	themachine	but thanks for teaching me about dotglob
2021-06-29 19:46:21	themachine	heh
2021-06-29 19:46:42	themachine	well whatever gets you off
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2021-06-29 19:51:28	Endermen10941	Could someone
2021-06-29 19:51:33	Endermen10941	Coule so
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2021-06-29 19:52:03	Shariff	??
2021-06-29 19:52:37	Endermen10941	Could someone help me fix grub to see my ubuntu install from grub of my gentoo install and sorry for the confusion
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2021-06-29 19:58:23	jim	Endermen10941, does your ubuntu install grub see your gentoo install?
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2021-06-29 20:02:59	Endermen10941	No
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2021-06-29 20:04:36	Endermen10941	Nor dues my gentoo install see my ubuntu install
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2021-06-29 20:05:03	theproffesor	have you tried to update-grub
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2021-06-29 20:05:45	guest649	but I guess one can setup grub to see all systems
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2021-06-29 20:06:14	esselfe	do you have os-prober installed?
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2021-06-29 20:08:36	Endermen10941	Yes
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2021-06-29 20:08:50	esselfe	they should be detected then...
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2021-06-29 20:09:32	esselfe	(grub-mkconfig)
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2021-06-29 20:09:44	Endermen10941	It should let me dubble check on gentoo if it is emerged
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2021-06-29 20:10:16	esselfe	you just need it on the system hosting grub
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2021-06-29 20:16:25	Endermen10941	Gentoo detects Ubuntu
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2021-06-29 20:19:39	Wafficus	hey there, can someone help me figure out why network manager isn't working on my fedora server? All I did the other day was install Samba. I disabled the related configuration in /etc/samba/smb.conf. I also deleted a related line in /etc/fstab to automatically mount a USB HDD
2021-06-29 20:19:40	-->	vitorgonc (~vitorgonc@2804:214:81ac:b3f8:1:2:9218:6460) has joined #linux
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2021-06-29 20:20:15	Wafficus	the only thing I saw that was relevant was an OOM out of memory exception, but I have no idea why that's occurring
2021-06-29 20:21:01	firepup	more memory then?
2021-06-29 20:21:09	firepup	or mem leaks
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2021-06-29 20:21:27	Wafficus	yeah could it be a kernel memory leak?
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2021-06-29 20:21:45	c705	I doubt that
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2021-06-29 20:22:59	guest649	what error message do you see?
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2021-06-29 20:23:30	guest649	on screen and also on log
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2021-06-29 20:24:20	guest649	ctrl+f10 uses to help
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2021-06-29 20:25:40	Endermen10941	I got grub to see my ubuntu install
2021-06-29 20:25:58	jim	yay :)
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2021-06-29 20:26:55	guest649	try running it on console and see messages too
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2021-06-29 20:27:21	guest649	but I don't know why you use it for
2021-06-29 20:27:36	guest649	very well
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2021-06-29 20:28:48	Wafficus	that's the thing though I can't connect to the internet so I can't even share the issues from the machine
2021-06-29 20:28:55	Wafficus	* with netcat and termbin
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2021-06-29 20:31:03	guest649	oh it is serious then
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2021-06-29 20:31:58	Wafficus	I use it as a file server basically
2021-06-29 20:32:10	Wafficus	its just using Fedora Server as its OS
2021-06-29 20:32:33	guest649	does fedora have a centralized general administrative tool where Network Manager is into it?
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2021-06-29 20:35:14	guest649	you could try uninstalling samba
2021-06-29 20:35:45	guest649	maybe there is some installation conflict
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2021-06-29 20:37:23	mlu	hmm, I wonder if there's any reason to use Samba in an environment with no Windows boxes
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2021-06-29 20:38:48	Wafficus	mlu reason being, I'm trying to share a ps2 games directory
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2021-06-29 20:39:49	mlu	Wafficus: hmm, and PS2 speaks SMB?
2021-06-29 20:40:28	Wafficus	mlu yeah ones with FreeMcBoot in the memory card
2021-06-29 20:40:32	Wafficus	with network share *
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2021-06-29 20:41:23	mattf	is there a way to display the selected date zenity?
2021-06-29 20:41:32	mattf	like the result it will output
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2021-06-29 20:42:45	guest649	Wafficus: you could ask into networking room too
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2021-06-29 20:44:16	Wafficus	true
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2021-06-29 20:56:40	pyeverything	is there a command like vimdiff that can say the difference in all of the directories and file names between two different folders?
2021-06-29 20:56:58	mlu	pyeverything: diff -rc
2021-06-29 20:57:06	mouses	Hey - if anyone has a second and some advice, could use a hand.  Looking to deploy something for my husband's server - basically need a simple service that allows him to have a simple web portal to upload/download files.  Nextcloud would work, but it's so heavy.  The only feature he wants is just login, have files handy, upload and or download via
2021-06-29 20:57:06	mouses	a web interface.  Server is ubuntu 20.04 LTS running GhostCMS
2021-06-29 20:57:28	mouses	anyone have any advice on a simple, secure, and open source tool that will meet this need?
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2021-06-29 20:57:38	mlu	mouses: doesn't GhostCMS handle this directly?
2021-06-29 20:57:53	mlu	mouses: if you need to actually move files around, I recommend WinSCP and HyperTerminal
2021-06-29 20:58:33	kurahaupo_	mouses: does it have to be web? What about an sftp file browser? Or rsync? Or sshfs?
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2021-06-29 20:59:27	kurahaupo_	mouses: what's the client device?
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2021-06-29 21:02:48	mouses	kurahaupo_: client will be random web browsers from mobile, desktop, etc
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2021-06-29 21:03:07	mouses	mlu: No, and the user in question REALLY wants just a web interface
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2021-06-29 21:03:39	mouses	kurahaupo: not sure if you missed my last
2021-06-29 21:03:45	mouses	kurahaupo_: client will be random web browsers from mobile, desktop, etc
2021-06-29 21:03:55	mouses	has to be web, he's stubborn
2021-06-29 21:04:00	mlu	mouses: very surprised that GhostCMS doesn't have a file upload
2021-06-29 21:04:11	retrosenator	i use scp
2021-06-29 21:04:44	mlu	mouses: I think webfsd might have something
2021-06-29 21:04:50	mouses	mlu: you know maybe they do
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2021-06-29 21:05:34	mouses	mlu: basically he just wants a simple thing to where no matter where he is, what computer he is on, he can load https://domain.name and push/pull files after a login/password, no certs or complex stuff
2021-06-29 21:06:04	mlu	mouses: you at least plan to setup HTTPS, right?
2021-06-29 21:06:15	mlu	mouses: i.e. as long as he doesn't need to install a client-side certificate
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2021-06-29 21:07:00	mouses	mlu: https is already running, LE configured, DNS configured, etc - the goal would be a simple subdomain for file upload/download, behind a username/password wall
2021-06-29 21:07:44	mouses	mlu: he's on 'guest' computers often so a totally web based thing is what he wants, no installing software or worrying about certs - and he's the only user on the box.
2021-06-29 21:07:46	mlu	mouses: it's a very werid requirement, genreally speaking
2021-06-29 21:07:51	mouses	yes
2021-06-29 21:07:57	mlu	mouses: your best bet is probably webmin / usermin (although those are horrible)
2021-06-29 21:08:04	mouses	yeah :(
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2021-06-29 21:08:13	mouses	nextcloud would be fine too, it's just so overkill
2021-06-29 21:08:24	mlu	mouses: or maybe do a drupal or wordpress install? how about radiantcms?
2021-06-29 21:08:34	mouses	I was wondering if there was something more simple, but - shrug, I can always dig more
2021-06-29 21:08:37	mlu	mouses: or oo, search for any S3 emulator (i.e. minio)
2021-06-29 21:08:40	kurahaupo_	not installing a client cert means you will need a cert for the server from a publicly recognised authority such as LetsEncrypt
2021-06-29 21:08:44	mouses	mlu: I'd think ghost would have some kind of plugin for this
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2021-06-29 21:09:07	mouses	kurahaupo_: I meant cert based login for a theroitical service, not the server itself
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2021-06-29 21:09:25	mlu	mouses: that's the odd thing: I swear that GhostCMS has a file upload
2021-06-29 21:09:27	kurahaupo_	well, for whatever subdomain
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2021-06-29 21:09:29	mouses	kurahaupo_: https://damanding.xyz is the domain - cert look right?
2021-06-29 21:10:09	mouses	mlu: yeah gotta dig, just started learning it 3 weeks ago - thanks for letting me rant, sometimes talking it out helps.  I think the best bet would be integrate something with ghost if possible, since that's already running.
2021-06-29 21:10:38	mlu	mouses: if one doesn't exist, you might be able to pay someone cheaply to build one for you
2021-06-29 21:11:09	mlu	mouses: but yeah, now that I think about it: if you just need to do files and only files, minio might be more appropriate
2021-06-29 21:11:20	mlu	it's basically a S3 emulator and comes with a fairly nice web interface
2021-06-29 21:11:28	mouses	excellent
2021-06-29 21:11:31	mlu	only issue is that it's AGPL, but that shouldn't be a problem if you're running it for your husband
2021-06-29 21:11:35	mouses	thanks mlu, I got enough to dig now
2021-06-29 21:11:41	mouses	yeah, just simple site for his gaming mods
2021-06-29 21:11:48	mouses	learning ghost has been fun
2021-06-29 21:11:55	mouses	I think I've done okay on the look and feel of the site
2021-06-29 21:12:05	 *	mlu uses both GhostCMS and Min.io at his company
2021-06-29 21:12:27	mlu	GhostCMS for the marketing blog, min.io for test fixtures
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2021-06-29 21:12:55	mouses	mlu: I'm so new to ghost, but omg it's so cool
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2021-06-29 21:23:20	Wafficus	back, I'm near that Fedora Server box. I checked journalctl -xb, and there's a message stating "MDS CPU bug present and SMT on, data leak possible' in orange text
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2021-06-29 21:24:08	Wafficus	'pmd_set_huge: Cannot satisfy (mem 0xf0000000-0xf8200000] with a huge-page mapping due to MTRR override.
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2021-06-29 21:24:27	c705	so i have a unit test where i run git log --pretty='format:%h %G?' to check all my commits are signed. i merged a branch and forgot to sign it. what is the easiest way I can resign that old commit? it seems rebasing just adds another signed commit on top which fails my test still
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2021-06-29 21:49:39	mattf	what is this qt thing called when you hold alt + a letter of the button and it clicks it
2021-06-29 21:50:24	curdlesnoot	mattf: accelerator keys
2021-06-29 21:50:41	mattf	thats the gdk term i suppose
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2021-06-29 22:01:27	puff	anyobe home? I'm having display issues.  I was using an external monitor on my thinkpad t580 running ubuntu
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2021-06-29 22:01:46	firepup	what display issues
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2021-06-29 22:01:52	puff	Suspended the laptop, unplugged the HDMI out, now all the windows appear to be twice as wide and twice as high.
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2021-06-29 22:02:08	puff	It feels like x or the window manager actually thinks that's how big the display is.
2021-06-29 22:02:16	firepup	you can just change resolution
2021-06-29 22:02:25	puff	If I open a new window, it's still big.  I can move the mouse pointer off the display for quite a bit.
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2021-06-29 22:02:31	puff	firepup: I tried that, didn't affect this issue.
2021-06-29 22:02:44	Khaytsus	xrandr -s 0 ?
2021-06-29 22:03:30	chrisawi	mattf: gtk calls them mnemonics
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2021-06-29 22:04:20	puff	Khaytsus: That made the screen go all black for a moment and then come back, problem persists.
2021-06-29 22:04:21	mattf	its ampersand shortcuts
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2021-06-29 22:04:35	Khaytsus	puff: bummer
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2021-06-29 22:05:02	puff	Also,interestingly, I opened a new xfce-terminal tab to run that command and the terminal window expanded to the two-times-too-big size again.  I had manually resized it.
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2021-06-29 22:08:43	Swift110-mobile	which bistros are you folks using?
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2021-06-29 22:09:02	Guest79	how do you take 3 VPS's from one of the cloud providers and load balance them across a single app?
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2021-06-29 22:11:16	puff	Rebooted and that seemed to fix it, but man I hate doing that.
2021-06-29 22:11:22	puff	Feels like I'm running windows :-)
2021-06-29 22:11:40	puff	Guest79: Depends on the app.
2021-06-29 22:11:53	Guest79	django app
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2021-06-29 22:12:34	puff	Guest79: Generally the app has to be designed to support it,
2021-06-29 22:12:43	puff	Or you can do network level load-balancing.
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2021-06-29 22:13:01	puff	do people still use localdirector?  I'm sure the cloud providers have something that serves that purpose.
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2021-06-29 22:15:23	jim	they've been using a lot of different ones, I settled on debian
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2021-06-29 22:17:06	mlu	I wonder if anyone still uses inetd / xinetd / something similar
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2021-06-29 22:17:57	Khaytsus	I hope not
2021-06-29 22:18:21	mlu	it seems like the architecture would be more appropriate for the high-ram multi-core machines of today
2021-06-29 22:18:40	mlu	but then again, in practice, you'd probablty want all your services on separate VMs anyways
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2021-06-29 22:24:37	frostblade	mlu: what types of services
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2021-06-29 22:25:26	frostblade	I usually just use docker containers for running different services.
2021-06-29 22:25:36	frostblade	*on a server
2021-06-29 22:25:46	mlu	frostblade: thinking among the lines of IMAPd, certain HTTP requests, IRC
2021-06-29 22:26:06	frostblade	oh ye that's understandable
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2021-06-29 22:43:59	mattf	in conky how can i escape curly braces? { }
2021-06-29 22:44:05	-->	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has joined #linux
2021-06-29 22:44:07	mattf	if i want to use them inside a execi
2021-06-29 22:44:10	mattf	command
2021-06-29 22:45:05	retrosenator	\
2021-06-29 22:45:18	mlu	\
2021-06-29 22:46:06	mattf	hmmm didn't work
2021-06-29 22:46:14	retrosenator	r\\
2021-06-29 22:46:18	mattf	you mean \}
2021-06-29 22:46:25	mattf	r\\} ?
2021-06-29 22:46:31	mattf	or r\\ and l\\
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2021-06-29 22:46:50	retrosenator	typo soryr
2021-06-29 22:46:52	retrosenator	just \\
2021-06-29 22:47:02	mattf	i want to have }
2021-06-29 22:47:05	mattf	on a command
2021-06-29 22:47:08	retrosenator	\\}
2021-06-29 22:47:17	retrosenator	or single quote
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2021-06-29 22:56:07	orbatos_	mlu, mainly legacy systems, but there are some ... others
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2021-06-29 22:58:56	roo-	Hello, is there an alternative to rsync that compares files by their last modified time with precision greater than seconds?
2021-06-29 22:59:06	mlu	roo-: how?
2021-06-29 22:59:24	mlu	roo-: if the timestamps on the fs are only in seconds, that's all you're gonna get
2021-06-29 22:59:37	roo-	mlu: stat shows: 13:50:33.766049394
2021-06-29 23:00:11	mlu	roo-: ext4 filesystem?
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2021-06-29 23:01:10	roo-	Yes
2021-06-29 23:01:57	mlu	hmm, might want to look into some NFS-based solutions or something
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2021-06-29 23:02:28	roo-	mlu: ext4 doesn't support a greater precision?
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2021-06-29 23:03:45	mlu	roo-: yes, it does
2021-06-29 23:03:50	mlu	roo-: sadly, rsync doesn't
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2021-06-29 23:04:23	Guest79	so would i need to copy my entire app on all 3 VPS servers to load balance them or can I put the app on only 1 VPS?
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2021-06-29 23:04:38	mlu	roo-: unfortunately, I'm at a loss here -- I'd personally be writing my own script by now if I was in your position
2021-06-29 23:04:50	[[R]]	Guest79: so what would be running on the other 2?
2021-06-29 23:04:53	mlu	Guest79: if you need to load-balance your app, it needs to run on all three, right?
2021-06-29 23:05:11	mlu	i.e. all three must be able to respond to rqeuests
2021-06-29 23:05:55	Tabmow	depends, the servers can share an underlying filesystem. So technically you only have to 'copy' it once.
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2021-06-29 23:06:04	roo-	mlu: Well I would like to have some of the benefits of rsync, syncing a remote machine, using rdiff, etc etc
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2021-06-29 23:07:53	Wafficus	Guest79 what's the point of having 3 VPS servers? Is this for testing? ex: Testing, Staging, Production?
2021-06-29 23:09:35	rascul	roo- maybe the --modify-window option to rsync would be useful
2021-06-29 23:09:49	roo-	rascul: I have it set to 0, and still it's only seconds
2021-06-29 23:10:01	orbatos_	Guest79, planning on load balancing geographically?
2021-06-29 23:10:21	[[R]]	rascul: i'll balance your load
2021-06-29 23:10:30	rascul	man page says 0 is for seconds but says something about negative values can do nanoseconds or some such
2021-06-29 23:11:56	Guest79	i want to be able to handle traffic for my app
2021-06-29 23:12:00	rascul	also there is a provided method to make all transfers default to comparing nanoseconds
2021-06-29 23:12:14	roo-	rascul: Thanks! ... I read the manual when I had an older rsync
2021-06-29 23:12:52	rascul	https://termbin.com/2rny
2021-06-29 23:13:00	rascul	is what my manual says
2021-06-29 23:13:10	rascul	rsync  version 3.2.3  protocol version 31
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2021-06-29 23:15:01	roo-	rascul: Works :) ... thanks once again, I keep making the mistake of not re-checking manpages of newer versions
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2021-06-29 23:15:34	rascul	:)
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2021-06-29 23:27:16	Guest79	so how does the database get shared among all 3 VPS?
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2021-06-29 23:29:50	Wafficus	Guest79 Hadoop to share among VMs
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2021-06-29 23:31:46	Guest79	my app uses postgres. I know nothing about hadoop besides it being for big data
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2021-06-29 23:34:13	rascul	for postgres you might start here   https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/high-availability.html
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2021-06-29 23:34:53	[[R]]	rascul: what about low availability?
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2021-06-29 23:35:30	rascul	you're lowly available
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2021-06-29 23:35:47	 *	[[R]] swings low
2021-06-29 23:36:07	CoJaBo	Anyone ever use lirc before? I need to send one button press; is there a simple way to do that?
2021-06-29 23:36:44	teacups	hahaha lol easy way
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2021-06-29 23:37:31	teacups	if you have a remote tgat is approved than yes actually
2021-06-29 23:37:56	CoJaBo	?
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2021-06-29 23:38:59	teacups	i still cant get lirc to work good luck
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2021-06-29 23:41:30	Oldiesmann	Someone should tell lirc to update their website. I feel like I'm back in high school :P
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2021-06-29 23:42:03	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-29 23:42:03	rascul	i haven't lirced in decades
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2021-06-29 23:42:40	rascul	i built a fancy serial ir transceiver back in the day and lirced it up
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2021-06-29 23:42:58	rascul	nowadays i can only spell lirc because someone else did fist and i just copied
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2021-06-29 23:44:30	CoJaBo	It looks like the database hasn't been updated in 6 years, but I found some codes on a forum
2021-06-29 23:44:40	rascul	cheat codes?
2021-06-29 23:44:41	CoJaBo	I... just cannot for the life of me how to send the codes :/
2021-06-29 23:44:45	rascul	cheat codes are the best
2021-06-29 23:45:03	CoJaBo	rascul: I need to send the code 0x827D somehow
2021-06-29 23:45:19	rascul	i don't know enough to help you :(
2021-06-29 23:45:27	CoJaBo	I can't even figure out where to start
2021-06-29 23:45:56	rascul	irsend?
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2021-06-29 23:46:40	CoJaBo	I can't get irsend to even do anything other than say irsend: not enough arguments
2021-06-29 23:46:58	rascul	maybe you need to be more argumentative
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2021-06-29 23:47:11	rascul	what arguments are you providing?
2021-06-29 23:47:19	ayecee	maybe try more arguments
2021-06-29 23:47:30	 *	rascul argues with ayecee about arguments
2021-06-29 23:47:32	[[R]]	lol
2021-06-29 23:47:33	CoJaBo	I don't know what arguments I need to provide :/
2021-06-29 23:47:36	ayecee	at least to get a different error message
2021-06-29 23:47:42	rascul	CoJaBo what have you tried though?
2021-06-29 23:47:52	ayecee	doesn't matter which ones you provide. you just need more.
2021-06-29 23:48:01	CoJaBo	rascul: Figuring out what I should specify for "remote"
2021-06-29 23:48:04	ayecee	take the ones you're using, and add them a second time
2021-06-29 23:48:15	rascul	CoJaBo ok but what have you tried?
2021-06-29 23:48:20	CoJaBo	I don't know what to put there, and I can't fing the doc page that tells me how to figure out what to put for that
2021-06-29 23:48:23	rascul	like what arguments have you provided?
2021-06-29 23:48:26	<--	death916 (~death916@user/death916) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-29 23:48:28	ayecee	inb4 i tried everything
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2021-06-29 23:48:37	CoJaBo	rascul: A path, the code, and the model number of the remote
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2021-06-29 23:49:06	CoJaBo	I think it's supposed to take the model number, but I don't know how to add one of those, so of course it didn't work
2021-06-29 23:49:07	rascul	can you share the whole command line verbatim?'
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2021-06-29 23:49:40	ayecee	i give it even odds
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2021-06-29 23:49:55	CoJaBo	rascul: I'm not even in the right ballpark here; how do I define a "remote"?
2021-06-29 23:49:58	[[R]]	ayecee: not odd evens?
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2021-06-29 23:50:03	rascul	i'm not sure
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2021-06-29 23:50:25	rascul	i might be able to help with the number of arguments problem though but i don't know what you're providing
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2021-06-29 23:51:40	rascul	if you could share an exact copy of the command and arguments you used i might be able to figure that part out
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2021-06-29 23:52:00	rascul	maybe we can figure out some more, i dunno
2021-06-29 23:52:02	ayecee	i'm beginning to think CoJaBo might not actually be capable of that and i can't understand why
2021-06-29 23:52:08	mattf	I have this C code for X11 that draws a plenty of rectangles on a window with an array of XRectangle and XShapeCombineRectangles. Any idea how can I make those rectangles have rounded edges?
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2021-06-29 23:52:59	ayecee	draw quarter circles on the corners?
2021-06-29 23:53:02	CoJaBo	ayecee: of what?
2021-06-29 23:53:04	rascul	mattf something about the shape extension something or other is all i know
2021-06-29 23:53:23	ayecee	CoJaBo: of providing the info requested
2021-06-29 23:53:29	CoJaBo	ayecee: what info?
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2021-06-29 23:53:36	mattf	ayecee: yeah anything that would round the corners
2021-06-29 23:53:53	ayecee	CoJaBo: see this is the thing, it's like you didn't even see what rascul asked for.
2021-06-29 23:54:03	ayecee	is it like a situational blindness or what
2021-06-29 23:54:04	rascul	CoJaBo i asked several times to see the command and arguments you were using
2021-06-29 23:54:23	mattf	rascul: shape extension? ok
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2021-06-29 23:54:40	rascul	mattf i dunno if i'm right though
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2021-06-29 23:54:56	ayecee	CoJaBo: can you see this?
2021-06-29 23:55:40	ayecee	i think this may be CoJaBo's fnord
2021-06-29 23:55:40	CoJaBo	ayecee: I assume the command I have to run is something like this:    irsend list mrx-
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2021-06-29 23:55:55	CoJaBo	That fails, for obvious reasons
2021-06-29 23:56:01	ayecee	CoJaBo: what is the command that you tried that failed
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2021-06-29 23:56:04	rascul	CoJaBo what command did you run that gave the output "irsend: not enough arguments" ?
2021-06-29 23:56:10	rascul	command and arguments
2021-06-29 23:56:14	ayecee	CoJaBo: if you tried many things, pick one of them
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2021-06-29 23:56:28	CoJaBo	rascul: That is one of the ones that prints that error, yes
2021-06-29 23:56:51	ayecee	that was painful.
2021-06-29 23:57:01	rascul	there seems to be a communication issue and i don't know how to get past it
2021-06-29 23:57:02	CoJaBo	ayecee: I also tried irsend list /path/to/mrx.conf, but that was equally stupid
2021-06-29 23:57:05	ayecee	hopefully other queries are addressed more promptly
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2021-06-29 23:57:36	ayecee	CoJaBo: what does the manpage say remote is
2021-06-29 23:57:39	CoJaBo	My problem is clearly NOT with irsend; I don't know what command I'm supposed to be using, but people keep asking about irsend >_>
2021-06-29 23:57:46	[[R]]	rascul: what we have here... is a failure to communicate
2021-06-29 23:57:48	CoJaBo	ayecee: It, uh, doesn't.
2021-06-29 23:57:53	CoJaBo	Like, anywhere
2021-06-29 23:57:54	ayecee	CoJaBo: it certainly does
2021-06-29 23:58:07	CoJaBo	ayecee: If I could find that, it would probably solve my problem
2021-06-29 23:58:20	ayecee	CoJaBo: okay, start by opening the manpage
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2021-06-29 23:58:49	CoJaBo	remote is the name of a remote, as described in the lircd configuration file.
2021-06-29 23:58:58	ayecee	there. do you have a lircd config file?
2021-06-29 23:59:09	CoJaBo	I can't figure out how to create one
2021-06-29 23:59:22	ayecee	okay, then you have no valid remote to give it
2021-06-29 23:59:28	ayecee	we've solved that one.
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2021-06-29 23:59:45	rascul	man 5 lircd.conf
2021-06-29 23:59:54	ayecee	how about irsend list, does that return anything
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2021-06-30 00:01:21	ayecee	what do you figure, is he reading that manpage or running the command or picking his nose
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2021-06-30 00:01:33	rascul	i was just picking my nose
2021-06-30 00:01:54	ayecee	that's good news because you can't both be doing it at once
2021-06-30 00:01:55	rascul	there was a big booger but i got it so i'm good now
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2021-06-30 00:02:10	rascul	unfortunately it was not gold
2021-06-30 00:02:10	ayecee	so it must be one of the others
2021-06-30 00:02:17	ayecee	it never is :(
2021-06-30 00:02:26	rascul	yeah i know but i keep trying :(
2021-06-30 00:02:35	rascul	maybe one day...
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2021-06-30 00:02:41	CoJaBo	ayecee: Is the config file just the remote codes then? Cuz I do have that. I assume I need to pass it to lircd or something? but how
2021-06-30 00:03:09	rascul	it's an argument to lircd
2021-06-30 00:03:10	ayecee	CoJaBo: i haven't looked at the manpage for that. have you?
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2021-06-30 00:03:21	rascul	lircd [options] [config file]
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2021-06-30 00:03:54	rascul	only necessary if it's not in default location though, which the man page might specify
2021-06-30 00:04:19	ayecee	CoJaBo: i'm pretty sure it's not just remote codes
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2021-06-30 00:05:36	ayecee	it would describe what hardware you have attached to send ir, and how to talk to it
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2021-06-30 00:06:03	rascul	oh yeah there were two parts to the last statement and i only addressed the second part
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2021-06-30 00:06:42	rascul	but i feel like the first part might have been sufficiently addressed by ayecee
2021-06-30 00:06:50	ayecee	nailed it
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2021-06-30 00:07:32	CoJaBo	ayecee: AFAICT, the hardware is specified on the command line
2021-06-30 00:07:38	ayecee	it's not
2021-06-30 00:07:55	rascul	it's in the lircd.conf
2021-06-30 00:08:50	rascul	well the device might be specified on the command line but communication parameters are configure in lircd.conf
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2021-06-30 00:09:53	rascul	stuff like driver and pulses and weird things that might vary from device to device
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2021-06-30 00:10:33	 *	rascul pretends wigums was already here
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2021-06-30 00:10:55	CoJaBo	rascul: I probably have to guess those, as I have no idea what they're supposed to be
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2021-06-30 00:11:16	ayecee	you probably can't guess those. you'll have to look them up for your device.
2021-06-30 00:11:26	felco	hey... just trying my luck here... i trying to ran a php script that i got from an ubuntu install, its use freetds with the php dblib... so it doesnt run on fedora... the difference I see is that fedora uses php-fpm... what is weird is that the execution renders no errors and just timeout
2021-06-30 00:11:28	CoJaBo	I'm just copying them from a similar remote config file
2021-06-30 00:11:41	CoJaBo	I don't know how I'd figure them out for the specific device
2021-06-30 00:11:52	rascul	i don't know either
2021-06-30 00:12:13	CoJaBo	The manpage seems to suggest they're specific to the remote, not drive?
2021-06-30 00:12:15	CoJaBo	driver
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2021-06-30 00:12:38	rascul	there is #lirc with three people in it which might not be incredibly helpful
2021-06-30 00:12:39	ayecee	what are you referring to
2021-06-30 00:12:41	CoJaBo	I got it to the point now that it segfaults if I try to irsend, so that's....... progress?
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2021-06-30 00:13:37	rascul	it's different, not necessarily progress
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2021-06-30 00:13:53	ayecee	felco: those don't do related things. freetds is for connecting to a database, fpm is a cgi implementation
2021-06-30 00:13:54	rascul	at least you had an error message before
2021-06-30 00:14:18	fling	How to fix doubly-encoded to utf-8 from iso-8859-5 ?
2021-06-30 00:14:19	CoJaBo	Oh, apparently I did a dumb
2021-06-30 00:14:27	rascul	ayecee not exactly a cgi implementation but i'll forgive you because php
2021-06-30 00:14:33	CoJaBo	I have to specify the device, not just the driver
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2021-06-30 00:14:36	felco	ayecee yeah I know, the script ran fine there, if i comment out just the dblib connection
2021-06-30 00:14:36	Dagmar	fling: About the same way you unboil an egg.
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2021-06-30 00:14:48	CoJaBo	I was missing -d /dev/ttyUSB0
2021-06-30 00:15:01	CoJaBo	New problem, the code I found on the forum was wrong :/
2021-06-30 00:15:14	rascul	CoJaBo wrong how?
2021-06-30 00:15:15	ayecee	it's almost always wrong
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2021-06-30 00:15:29	Dagmar	CoJaBo: Yeah, LIRC is kind of an evil beast if you don't know what you're doing
2021-06-30 00:15:31	ayecee	the tricky part is figuring out which parts are right
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2021-06-30 00:15:45	rascul	the tricky part is knowing what you're doing
2021-06-30 00:15:50	CoJaBo	rascul: It's supposed to be "down", but it instead changes the audio input :/
2021-06-30 00:15:52	Dagmar	Yeah for this, definitely
2021-06-30 00:15:56	ayecee	eh, who has that luxury
2021-06-30 00:16:01	Dagmar	<-- this guy
2021-06-30 00:16:22	Dagmar	Mainly because I spent *considerable* time trying to make an IR remote work on a server in the 90's
2021-06-30 00:16:24	CoJaBo	Dagmar: The hilarious part is, I literally JUST have to send ONE code
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2021-06-30 00:16:39	CoJaBo	Dagmar: I need to press down to access the TV menu to change one setting :/
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2021-06-30 00:16:47	ayecee	that's not hilarious. that's a grave misunderstanding of the problem.
2021-06-30 00:16:50	CoJaBo	But I lost the remote
2021-06-30 00:16:54	firepup	oof
2021-06-30 00:17:07	Dagmar	CoJaBo: Well, the 'trick'--if there even is one--is to do *something* that lets you know it's seeing pulses, and to point *any* remote at it for starters
2021-06-30 00:17:26	CoJaBo	So I'm trying to send it via lirc so I don't have to pay $50 to buy a remote that I will never use again lol
2021-06-30 00:17:50	ayecee	he's got a sender, not a receiver
2021-06-30 00:17:51	Dagmar	Oh you're trying to _send_ a code
2021-06-30 00:17:52	rascul	you do have an ir transmitter that you're attempting to use via lirc?
2021-06-30 00:17:52	CoJaBo	Dagmar: It's working, the TV responds to the irsend now.. It's just I don't know the code for "down"
2021-06-30 00:18:09	CoJaBo	It's a usbuirt, tx and rx
2021-06-30 00:18:18	ayecee	nice
2021-06-30 00:18:19	Dagmar	I'd start with Phillips RC5 protocol if you can't find out which protocol the device is supposed to speak
2021-06-30 00:18:36	CoJaBo	It's a LG Magic Remote CX
2021-06-30 00:18:41	Dagmar	Ignore the remote
2021-06-30 00:18:50	Dagmar	You're going to be solving the problem the hard way
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2021-06-30 00:19:01	CoJaBo	The newest config files are 6 years old, so that one isn't in it >_>
2021-06-30 00:19:24	firepup	cojabo its unlikely that you'd know what protocol the remote would be using
2021-06-30 00:19:31	Dagmar	Pretend you just bought an All-4-One remote.  Just go through which profiles work with the device manufacturer
2021-06-30 00:19:51	Dagmar	Usually _one_ of them will work properly, and 1-2 will work partially
2021-06-30 00:19:55	CoJaBo	firepup: I have a config from an older version of the same remote, but it's missing the up and down keys
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2021-06-30 00:20:27	CoJaBo	Dagmar: My problem is that 1-2 work partially, but it's missing a crucial button lol
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2021-06-30 00:20:50	CoJaBo	I wish I could find someone with this remote to like, record it or someth
2021-06-30 00:20:50	Dagmar	Thats' why you look for the profiles for _other_ remotes for the same manufacturer
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2021-06-30 00:21:14	Dagmar	It's entirely possible the profile you're using is actually from a different remote that didn't have the arrow buttons
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2021-06-30 00:21:31	CoJaBo	Dagmar: Yeh, I'm using the newest LG remote, but it's 6 years out of date vs the one I have
2021-06-30 00:21:50	Dagmar	So try the _other_ LG remotes you find
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2021-06-30 00:22:02	firepup	why use the underscores? highlighting purposes?
2021-06-30 00:22:10	Dagmar	Otherwise your next best option is going to be to do one of hte insane things I would do
2021-06-30 00:22:23	CoJaBo	Dagmar: There aren't any with a direction pad. They didn't change to a direction pad til 2019, but the newest remote configs are from 2015
2021-06-30 00:22:24	ayecee	firepup: emphasis
2021-06-30 00:22:33	CoJaBo	Dagmar: I am looking for insane
2021-06-30 00:22:40	Dagmar	...which is to say, I'd break down what codes are being sent for each key symbol and try to modify the profile with a few _guesses_
2021-06-30 00:22:59	CoJaBo	Yeh, I'm decoding it to binary and flipping bits at this point
2021-06-30 00:23:02	Dagmar	But you basically have to understand how the signaling mechanism works for that to generally make any sense
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2021-06-30 00:23:21	CoJaBo	Also pasting stuff from random forums and pastebins from the C7 and C9
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2021-06-30 00:23:43	Dagmar	Look at what sequences are being sent for any "similar" buttons
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2021-06-30 00:23:48	Dagmar	Find the pattern
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2021-06-30 00:24:43	Dagmar	The good news is that being arrow buttons they probably have a delay and then spam their code, so you won't be likely to have to unravel some complex key-down, identifier, repeat beacon, repeat beacon, key-up sequence
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2021-06-30 00:24:49	CoJaBo	Dagmar: I'm channelling decades of experiance with crypto and codebreaking =D
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2021-06-30 00:25:03	Dagmar	Okay then you might actually have a decent chance at it
2021-06-30 00:25:20	CoJaBo	I'm honestly mostly just brute-forcing it at this point
2021-06-30 00:25:35	CoJaBo	Eventually I'll either find the KEY_DOWN code, or the SELF_DESTRUCT code
2021-06-30 00:25:42	Dagmar	I bought a lot of freakin refurb and second-hand multimedia remotes when I first started working with lIRC and found out the hard way some of the surplus ones were surplus for a reason
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2021-06-30 00:26:00	CoJaBo	Once I figure the code, I can then use it to program my universal remotes finally
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2021-06-30 00:26:06	Dagmar	It's probably just sending a single sequence of bits for the press
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2021-06-30 00:27:27	Dagmar	Oh, you may find that if you're having trouble working out WTF the defs in the config file do, look for the philips rc5 profile
2021-06-30 00:27:45	Dagmar	It's a very good baseline since it's one of the few extremely common protocols used
2021-06-30 00:27:51	CoJaBo	i might've found it even, it was one of the forum codes, I just failed at copypaste
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2021-06-30 01:01:10	autopsy	RedHat Fedora Anaconda installer can use http ftp nfs vnc menuconfig ncvurses ssheceure shell ncurses runlevel 3 installs whatever the fuck you want.
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2021-06-30 01:02:12	autopsy	It outdoes any other installer hands free hands bee seens with keeping the streets buuuuuuuzee.
2021-06-30 01:02:20	autopsy	Nobody will accept this.
2021-06-30 01:02:24	autopsy	Mint. Stupid.
2021-06-30 01:02:29	autopsy	Manjharo. Lame.
2021-06-30 01:02:43	autopsy	Ubuntu cmon get me out oif this hell hole mans you guys look.
2021-06-30 01:03:06	autopsy	Arch this trendc has got to go deaqd in the sumnmner next winter I'm goinna fart on Arch.
2021-06-30 01:04:25	autopsy	You guys sjust dont know and thatssad.
2021-06-30 01:04:55	autopsy	Sauvin jim, you guys Debians ncurses install is good but its for 64 bit 2.4 GHz spinning drive macfhines, I like Debiasn Debbia Ian.
2021-06-30 01:05:04	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-30 01:05:06	autopsy	I like Slackweare Patcrick Volkerding.
2021-06-30 01:06:03	autopsy	Dagmar yoy needs too get with the program install Redhat Fedora install all the packages use Anaconda its pytonh the ki9ckstart andaconda install lets you install hands free no prompts to anything that has a electrical systerm staatatxched.
2021-06-30 01:06:25	autopsy	Kickstart does live cd dvd usb stateless linux IO;'ve been there since all this crap started.
2021-06-30 01:07:28	autopsy	Anconda isd by far the hands free hands down best instaloler ever so it sursm srpm rpms rpm-python bindings and cmon kernel.spec just rpmnbuild -bb kernel.spec and it compiles and packages an RPM package kernel.rpm and -ba does a SR
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2021-06-30 01:07:49	autopsy	pm and an RPM so you get kernel.srpms that camer from kernel.rpm and boot that crap and get out of here.
2021-06-30 01:07:58	evidlo	no
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2021-06-30 01:08:27	Sauvin	autopsy, stop spamming the channel with random nonsense.
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2021-06-30 01:09:24	autopsy	Okm sortry aits just Anconda does http reposuitory source installs FTP NFS VNC remote display ionstaller does and Kickstart and everything Sauvin sorry I'll quit now.
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2021-06-30 01:09:33	 *	autopsy goes and light s up a smoke
2021-06-30 01:09:54	evidlo	its like a gp3 bot
2021-06-30 01:09:56	evidlo	gpt3
2021-06-30 01:10:12	Sauvin	Autopsy isn't a bot.
2021-06-30 01:10:51	autopsy	Ten noide thin client cluster bot running 10 kerrigherd kernels in 2.6.x Linux and process migration to the open waters of the sea of processors you get over ten nodes HDD less using NFS as the root directory AND MOUNTING ROOT AND STUFF.
2021-06-30 01:10:58	autopsy	i GET PAID i'M GOOD WITH COMPUYTERS.
2021-06-30 01:11:04	autopsy	caps drap.
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2021-06-30 01:11:41	evidlo	I could write a bot which is more coherent
2021-06-30 01:12:01	autopsy	Yeah I'm a cigarrette smoker let me smoke please this guys is saying im working with the cops cause I have an audio recorder in my own ROOM. HES AN apple eater.
2021-06-30 01:12:25	Sauvin	autopsy, enough with the nonsense.
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2021-06-30 01:18:57	felco	well... turns out my problem was that selinux was denying db connection
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2021-06-30 01:19:49	felco	that is actually good... if the server gets owned there limited capacity to harm others
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2021-06-30 01:36:19	sudomann	why is it when I copy and paste things into the ubuntu terminal now, I get this rubbish preceeding it, and a little more tailing: "^[[200~$ "
2021-06-30 01:36:31	sudomann	This never used to happen
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2021-06-30 01:42:16	jim	autopsy, ncurses is for the most part a library, which also has a dev half, used for when a C program needs to link to this ncurses lib
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2021-06-30 01:45:25	jim	the libs (like everything else) are built for several archs, x86_64 for similar to i3/i5/i7/i9 cpus, as well as older 64 bit intels, and 64 bit amd cpus..., also i386, and arm 32 and 64, and maybe some other archs (used to have ibm 390 mainframes as one of the archs)
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2021-06-30 02:44:24	jaggz	is there a nice clipboard tool that'll let me assign a key to clipboard entries
2021-06-30 02:44:30	jaggz	like vim does
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2021-06-30 02:46:24	lopid	maybe your DE + xclip or whatever it is
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2021-06-30 02:51:39	autopsy	jim, ncurses is a library yes.
2021-06-30 02:52:20	autopsy	Its a way to provide contextaul menus in color over a serial or ethernet link or dial up and provide options that you can choose and do what you needs to do when you're doing those curses.
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2021-06-30 02:53:08	autopsy	I like ncurses its was what I used in Slackware to install Slackware on a Compaq presario with a 586 486 processsor in it.
2021-06-30 02:53:31	autopsy	586 actually jim.
2021-06-30 02:54:14	Sauvin	autopsy, what is ncurses?
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2021-06-30 02:54:59	autopsy	Its a console applicable choice to menu to option to choose hit yes or no or continue or end in this box with the keyboard tab key and hit eneter. Its like expect.
2021-06-30 02:55:18	autopsy	Its like a good way to provide some menu driven interface in runlevel 3.
2021-06-30 02:55:28	autopsy	Runlevel 3 yep.
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2021-06-30 02:55:43	autopsy	No GUI no window no GDM no nada just you and Xorg.
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2021-06-30 02:56:09	autopsy	With an X cursor on a striped black and white noise screen X and mouse this that or nothing.
2021-06-30 02:58:03	Kyv	Sauvin: to my understanding, you are using ncurses at the moment.
2021-06-30 02:58:19	Sauvin	Kyv, no, I'm not. I'm *really* not.
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2021-06-30 02:58:36	Kyv	I thought you are using irssi.
2021-06-30 02:58:38	lopid	heh
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2021-06-30 02:58:50	Sauvin	Not just this moment, no.
2021-06-30 02:59:02	Sauvin	Autopsy, ncurses is a library for screen management.
2021-06-30 02:59:05	lopid	autopsy is describing dialog, which uses ncurses
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2021-06-30 02:59:28	Sauvin	Or whiptail or something of similar nature.
2021-06-30 02:59:32	lopid	right
2021-06-30 02:59:59	autopsy	dialog yes uses ncurses its good I think I know what it is.
2021-06-30 03:00:00	lopid	i think they just copypasted a random stackoverflow answer
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2021-06-30 03:00:03	autopsy	I might not.
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2021-06-30 03:17:58	Bebef_	Is there a maximum amount of netfilter rules, memory-wise, and can this memory be configured? I have something in my head, but I might just confuse that with cgroups.
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2021-06-30 03:21:14	jim	Sauvin, there was an old unix lib which was for making terminal "apps", called curses... ncurses is a newer version I think... one thing it's used for, is making the linux kernel source config "applet"
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2021-06-30 03:21:27	pyzozord	hey my there is a horrible hissing noise coming from my headphone's microphone when I use my  on my laptop
2021-06-30 03:21:36	pyzozord	I checked the headphones, they work fine on another laptop
2021-06-30 03:21:38	pyzozord	can someone help?
2021-06-30 03:22:51	Sauvin	jim, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library)
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2021-06-30 03:23:57	Sauvin	It's a tool used for creating user interfaces for TUI applications.
2021-06-30 03:25:08	jim	yep absolutely
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2021-06-30 03:25:25	jim	very informative link, by the way
2021-06-30 03:25:50	autopsy	I siad interface to9 dialoig and optiojns and choises to choose yes or no or continue or end.
2021-06-30 03:26:04	Kyv	pyzozord: it doesnt happen to be a Dell XPS?
2021-06-30 03:26:18	autopsy	I was right it turns out.
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2021-06-30 03:26:25	jim	pyzozord, not a lot to go on
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2021-06-30 03:27:04	pyzozord	Kyv: it's thinkpad x230
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2021-06-30 03:27:52	pyzozord	jim: I'm not sure what else I can say, headphones mic works fine on another device. The sounds is not sharp it's more like constant loud noise. I tried silencing left or light mic channel in pavcontrol that did not help
2021-06-30 03:27:52	jim	autopsy, yep, simple dialogs can be easily done in a program that was made to make them... you feed them a string of what to say, and what the buttons should say, it makes the dialog
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2021-06-30 03:28:47	Kyv	pyzozord: but there is no hissing in the headphones? only during recorded playback of your microphone audio?
2021-06-30 03:28:59	pyzozord	Kyv: yes
2021-06-30 03:29:04	jim	pyzozord, what's the other device?
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2021-06-30 03:29:49	pyzozord	jim: dell xps (on the same ubuntu 20.04 like my x230 thinkpad) and xiomi redmi 6a (phone) in both cases mic is perfectly fine
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2021-06-30 03:30:25	jim	I wonder if the two headphone jacks are the same
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2021-06-30 03:30:32	pyzozord	sorry 5a
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2021-06-30 03:31:10	Kyv	pyzozord: did you test the machine with another microphone?
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2021-06-30 03:31:41	pyzozord	Kyv: yes it seems the problem was persisting on other headphones too
2021-06-30 03:31:55	pyzozord	Kyv: however the internal microphone works normal
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2021-06-30 03:33:53	Kyv	pyzozord: okay, which sound server or architecture are you using? e.g. alsa, pulse, pipewire?
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2021-06-30 03:35:27	pyzozord	Kyv: I wouldn't know, it's ubuntu 20.04. I think it uses pulse and alsa, or at least I seem to have parts of both
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2021-06-30 03:35:53	Kyv	I am not sure off-hand, it definitely is not using just alsa.
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2021-06-30 03:36:11	cart_man	Is there a way I can stop my computer from giving apps the "away" signal if I havent moved my mouse in a while?
2021-06-30 03:36:13	Kyv	Most likely pulse, I will see.
2021-06-30 03:36:16	cart_man	Or typed on my keyboard
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2021-06-30 03:36:43	Kyv	Yeah its still shipping with pulseaudio.
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2021-06-30 03:37:10	Kyv	If it is not a hardware issue outright then your detected device may need some manual configuration.
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2021-06-30 03:38:43	Kyv	pyzozord: can you have a look in your pulseaudio config?
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2021-06-30 03:40:38	pyzozord	Kyv: my /etc/pulse/default.pa https://termbin.com/e8ht
2021-06-30 03:41:14	pyzozord	at the bottom in "random bullshit go" section is stuff that I am just tried now and it doesn't seem to help
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2021-06-30 03:44:58	pyzozord	brb resetting the laptop seeing if something helped
2021-06-30 03:44:59	Kyv	pyzozord: as a test, can you disable resampling in pulse-daemon.conf? You can do this in a local file in ~/.config.
2021-06-30 03:45:22	pyzozord	let me see
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2021-06-30 03:45:42	Kyv	In fact you should copy the configs over anyway to make local changes.
2021-06-30 03:45:52	jggg	what the hell do I do when my Linux froze and my USB stick is still plugged in flashing?
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2021-06-30 03:46:16	pyzozord	Kyv: I don't think resampling is on in the daemon, /etc/pulse/daemon.conf https://termbin.com/a4tl
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2021-06-30 03:46:19	jggg	If I force shut down Linux, the USB is broken, if I force plug the USB out, the USB is broken
2021-06-30 03:46:20	pyzozord	brb
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2021-06-30 03:46:22	jggg	what do I do
2021-06-30 03:46:27	<--	pyzozord (~pyzozord@user/pyzozord) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-30 03:46:33	AndrewYu	jggg: Unmount?
2021-06-30 03:46:33	Bebef	jggg: Wait until it's finished?
2021-06-30 03:46:57	AndrewYu	If you're system is utterly borked, use SysRq REISUB?
2021-06-30 03:47:06	jggg	but what if it's stuck?
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2021-06-30 03:47:21	jggg	I don't understand why it's still copying something, probably stuck
2021-06-30 03:47:24	Bebef	jggg: Either it's stuck or it's blinking.
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2021-06-30 03:47:53	jggg	the REISUB has never helped me, nothing does anything. I can still move the cursor but apart from that it's just dead
2021-06-30 03:48:02	jggg	it's blinking and stuck
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2021-06-30 03:48:09	AndrewYu	Heh, my question... Is there a way to distribute a flow (through a pipe) to multiple destinations, e.g. echo "Hi" > device should show "Hi" on ALL INSTANCES on `cat device`
2021-06-30 03:48:24	jggg	but isn't SysReq the Screen Lock key?
2021-06-30 03:48:30	AndrewYu	alt+screenshot
2021-06-30 03:48:34	AndrewYu	on most computers
2021-06-30 03:48:34	jggg	I could still try but usually never helped me
2021-06-30 03:48:45	jggg	so alt+PrtScreen?
2021-06-30 03:48:46	AndrewYu	Some computers have fn+alt+screenshot (usually laptops)
2021-06-30 03:48:53	jggg	mine is a desktop
2021-06-30 03:49:24	jggg	so is it alt+print screen+R and so on?
2021-06-30 03:49:24	AndrewYu	yes, for most computers, alt+prtscreen+{R,E,I,S,U,B}, besure to have a 5-second pause after each press, excluding R
2021-06-30 03:49:30	jggg	okay
2021-06-30 03:49:31	AndrewYu	yes
2021-06-30 03:50:14	AndrewYu	What's your CPU? I sometimes get stuck copying files because I used it on a device with *minimal* cpu
2021-06-30 03:50:19	jggg	oh, well, shit the I one shut down the computer
2021-06-30 03:50:40	AndrewYu	?
2021-06-30 03:50:44	AndrewYu	No it shouldn't
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2021-06-30 03:50:46	jggg	the usb is probably broken now
2021-06-30 03:50:47	AndrewYu	B should reboot it
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2021-06-30 03:51:05	jggg	it just shut down when I pressed alt+prntscreen+i
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2021-06-30 03:51:09	deniska	my previous laptop had printscreen on fn+button
2021-06-30 03:51:13	jggg	R and E did nothing
2021-06-30 03:51:23	AndrewYu	jggg: wtf?
2021-06-30 03:51:27	deniska	this laptop has wifi off on fn+prinscreen, and it's a rather annoying muscle memory I have :)
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2021-06-30 03:52:17	pyzozord	Kyv: nope, that random bullshit from my default.pe did not work
2021-06-30 03:52:47	AndrewYu	jggg: cat /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
2021-06-30 03:52:52	pyzozord	it applied an agressive noise canceling effect so overall quality was very poor and I could still hear the static under the effect
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2021-06-30 03:53:00	AndrewYu	if it's not '1', make it '1'
2021-06-30 03:53:11	AndrewYu	 /names
2021-06-30 03:53:14	AndrewYu	oops
2021-06-30 03:53:18	jggg	wait weren't you saying I, not 1?
2021-06-30 03:53:28	jggg	oh
2021-06-30 03:53:31	AndrewYu	I was talking about I, now im talking about 1
2021-06-30 03:53:38	jggg	well I think I will leave it off for now
2021-06-30 03:53:42	Kyv	pyzozord: which lines did you add?
2021-06-30 03:53:47	AndrewYu	watever
2021-06-30 03:53:53	Kyv	or uncomment
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2021-06-30 03:54:00	jggg	but I will try that later
2021-06-30 03:54:19	pyzozord	Kyv: at the bottom in my previous termbin
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2021-06-30 03:54:35	jggg	but what does setting that to 1 do anyway?
2021-06-30 03:54:45	AndrewYu	it allows all sysrq commnds
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2021-06-30 03:55:20	pyzozord	Kyv: I'm thinking that maybe this is a hardware issue? I think checking this on windows would help. But I have only one partition and ubuntu on it. I tried resizing it but it doesn't let me because it's a mounded and in use partition
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2021-06-30 03:55:46	jggg	I hope it isn't set to 0, that'd be weird
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2021-06-30 03:56:29	Kyv	pyzozord: there is a possible test/solution here: https://github.com/MaartenBaert/ssr/issues/323#issuecomment-268230548 # in setting microphone input to mono temporarily to see if it's an issue with the channels
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2021-06-30 04:02:22	pyzozord	Kyv: nope I think there is still the noise
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2021-06-30 04:02:41	pyzozord	Kyv: it seems a bit less hissy though
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2021-06-30 04:06:16	pyzozord	Kyv: nope, the same hiss, ignore the previous message
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2021-06-30 04:07:56	Kyv	pyzozord: ay. how about edit in 'load-module module-echo-cancel source name=noiseless' and in place of one of those ineffective lines  'set-default-source noiseless'
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2021-06-30 04:12:20	autopsy	The internal journal.
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2021-06-30 04:13:18	pyzozord	Kyv: I don't think that worked
2021-06-30 04:13:18	rifl	 /j #english
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2021-06-30 04:13:46	pyzozord	Anyone knows how to resize the partition I am using for my os?
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2021-06-30 04:14:02	pyzozord	Kyv: thanks for help anyway :)
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2021-06-30 04:20:54	Kyv	pyzozord: I can only give it the old college try.
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2021-06-30 04:21:28	Kyv	Maybe someone better versed will come or the problem can be isolated better
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2021-06-30 04:36:41	Kyv	In the case of alsa, it has optional deps or plugins which more or less automagically fix issues, but the issues are sort of elementary to begin with.
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2021-06-30 04:39:17	Kyv	That may work some for pulseaudio.
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2021-06-30 04:40:10	Kyv	For pipewire, you would just be piling on compatibility layers, on a fickle and buggy audio server that is already pushing pulse levels of bloat for its age.
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2021-06-30 05:32:58	Dagmar	...and that was an _easy_ one
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2021-06-30 05:35:01	lazar	Hi Dagmar, I still have your grill from last summer.
2021-06-30 05:35:27	lazar	Take Jane with you and grill with us now on sunday?
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2021-06-30 05:36:36	schillingklaus	using systemd-grilld
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2021-06-30 06:27:04	autopsy	pyzozord resize2fs vgchange lvm mke2fs fdisk................................
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2021-06-30 06:30:51	Kyv	You must have been thoroughly sanity checked to have him leave his grill with you.
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2021-06-30 06:33:20	spine-o-saurus	how is it the someone publishes a product under the Mozilla Public Licence 2.0 and then claims Please note that we are not affiliated with Mozilla, the creators of Firefox web browser. The Firefox name is a trademark of the Mozilla Foundation.
2021-06-30 06:33:54	spine-o-saurus	The MPL states the product is under stewardship of the Mozilla Foundation
2021-06-30 06:34:41	selckin	where does it say that
2021-06-30 06:34:51	spine-o-saurus	https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/MPL/2.0/
2021-06-30 06:34:56	selckin	what line
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2021-06-30 06:35:01	spine-o-saurus	10.1
2021-06-30 06:35:17	selckin	thats the license itself not software
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2021-06-30 06:36:00	spine-o-saurus	the product is licensed "under the MPL"
2021-06-30 06:36:28	spine-o-saurus	that means its inherited
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2021-06-30 06:38:30	selckin	and 10.1 states that only mozilla foundation is allowed to make a new license name MPL
2021-06-30 06:38:40	selckin	don't see how it affects the product, but INAL
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2021-06-30 06:55:05	Masklin	I have 20 threads to work with. I want to nest gnu parallel so it runs 10 threads 'inside', and 2 threads 'outside'. Is this possible?
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2021-06-30 06:56:50	selckin	probably
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2021-06-30 07:03:23	curdlesnoot	what would be the nature of the 'outer' instance's input?
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2021-06-30 07:05:11	Masklin	curdlesnoot: More or less the first half of a filename, shared by a number of files.
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2021-06-30 07:05:38	Masklin	I have five different of these first halfs of filenames, and a few hundred for each of these.
2021-06-30 07:05:46	curdlesnoot	do you have some code that generates these halves, currently?
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2021-06-30 07:06:06	Masklin	I have them in an array at the moment
2021-06-30 07:06:14	Masklin	A bash array, that is.
2021-06-30 07:06:15	curdlesnoot	ok. a native bash array, I take it?
2021-06-30 07:06:18	Masklin	Ja
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2021-06-30 07:06:29	curdlesnoot	in that case, it's quite easy.
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2021-06-30 07:07:06	Masklin	K :P
2021-06-30 07:07:26	HumbleGuy	Debian has too little repositories in sources.list i cant even install vim, how to add more so i can acutally use apt
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2021-06-30 07:07:31	curdlesnoot	Masklin: consider something along the lines of: nprocs=2 i=0; for half in "${halves[@]}"; do (( i++ < nprocs )) || wait -n; do_something "$half"; done; wait
2021-06-30 07:07:43	curdlesnoot	Masklin: of course, do_something could be some invocation if parallel.
2021-06-30 07:07:47	curdlesnoot	of*
2021-06-30 07:08:03	curdlesnoot	that's probably easier to reason with than nesting parallel.
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2021-06-30 07:09:49	curdlesnoot	Masklin: my apologies. I mean "& done", not "; done"
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2021-06-30 07:13:24	Masklin	Hmm
2021-06-30 07:13:32	Masklin	Some new syntax in there for me
2021-06-30 07:13:37	autopsy	Fedora Server is a powerful, flexible operating system that includes the best and latest datacenter technologies. It puts you in control of all your infrastructure and services.
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2021-06-30 07:15:06	autopsy	HumbleGuy use Fedora 63,000 packages .
2021-06-30 07:15:19	kubast2	How can I create a new namespace, in which I mask out /usr/bin ? I basically want to keep g++ in my system, but also remove it for the purpose of compiling something specific
2021-06-30 07:15:22	curdlesnoot	Masklin: wait -n was introduced by bash-4.3, which makes it easier than it used to be. it just means to wait for any one of whichever backgrounded jobs are still running.
2021-06-30 07:15:25	autopsy	Debians has apt but listing sources is repsotiory just use RPM.
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2021-06-30 07:15:40	kubast2	basicaly, I can't choose to use clang as a cross compiler
2021-06-30 07:15:50	curdlesnoot	Masklin: ergo, as soon as you've gone beyond nprocs there, you need to wait for one to be reaped before spawning the next.
2021-06-30 07:15:51	kubast2	and g++ as a host
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2021-06-30 07:16:41	kubast2	I basicaly have a line which makes it use clang instead of G++/gcc when found for the crocc compilation toolchain
2021-06-30 07:16:46	autopsy	HumbleGuy RPM and SRPMS are superior to apts ar archive packages.
2021-06-30 07:16:50	kubast2	but it doesn';t do that for host toolchain
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2021-06-30 07:16:57	kubast2	and keeps applying clang specific flags
2021-06-30 07:17:21	kubast2	so I started modifying the .mk file to kingdome fuck until it would work, but I am at a point where it just consumes more and more time
2021-06-30 07:17:50	Masklin	curdlesnoot: That's great! Hmm... seems like a worthy substitute for gnu parallel in general?
2021-06-30 07:17:54	curdlesnoot	Masklin: yes, indeed!
2021-06-30 07:17:59	kubast2	I will try compiling jdk16 straight away if that works I will be pissed asf
2021-06-30 07:18:12	curdlesnoot	Masklin: it can be easily factored out into a function, for that matter. I hardly use parallel nowadays.
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2021-06-30 07:18:41	Masklin	curdlesnoot: Hrmm but then why is gnu parallel a thing, if its functionality is easily re-written like this?
2021-06-30 07:19:22	curdlesnoot	granted, it's a simplistic example as it disregards the exit status values. but, for most of what I do, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that (though it could be).
2021-06-30 07:19:40	rapiz	why can't i write to gid_map? 1. user with group 1001 call clone in a c program and get a process 2. write to that process's gid_map with 0 1001 1 3. get operation not permitted
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2021-06-30 07:19:49	curdlesnoot	Masklin: well, for one thing, it was harder before wait -n existed. possible, but definitely not as convenient.
2021-06-30 07:20:10	rapiz	and i can write to uid_map :(
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2021-06-30 07:20:24	Masklin	curdlesnoot: I understand. Hmm. Nice. Big thanks :]
2021-06-30 07:20:55	curdlesnoot	Masklin: secondly, parallel does have many other features. but they're often not needed.
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2021-06-30 07:23:35	autopsy	What is parallel?
2021-06-30 07:23:40	autopsy	Its a binary?
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2021-06-30 07:24:21	Masklin	Yes
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2021-06-30 07:24:31	Masklin	GNU Parallel is project name.
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2021-06-30 07:24:47	autopsy	What does it do the executable?
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2021-06-30 07:29:31	Masklin	autopsy: It runs a command in parallel through a list of input arguments, more or less.
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2021-06-30 07:41:17	autopsy	What does parallel do?
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2021-06-30 07:41:50	curdlesnoot	"run programs in parallel"
2021-06-30 07:41:56	autopsy	In parallel to what?
2021-06-30 07:41:57	dag	when i play videos with vlc the image kinda stutters or the interlacing isnt in "sync". the display is a tv. what is the cause?
2021-06-30 07:42:00	curdlesnoot	to one another.
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2021-06-30 07:42:13	autopsy	The hsync and vsync rate.
2021-06-30 07:42:22	autopsy	They are mismatched to the TV.
2021-06-30 07:42:36	autopsy	The video card can push hertz.
2021-06-30 07:42:46	curdlesnoot	there's a difference between spawning a process, waiting for it, then spawning another, waiting for it and so on ... as compared to spawning N processes and waiting for the batch before spwaning another batch.
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2021-06-30 07:42:59	dag	autopsy: sounds about right. so it's a tv configuration issue?
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2021-06-30 07:43:13	autopsy	Its a TV vs. Video card issue maybe.
2021-06-30 07:43:17	curdlesnoot	perhaps you want to use all of your CPU cores for invoking a CPU-intensive program that is single threaded, for example.
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2021-06-30 07:43:34	autopsy	The video card is probably doing some higher than TV can do hertz on hsync and vsync.
2021-06-30 07:43:47	autopsy	Video card can do way more than a TV can handle.
2021-06-30 07:44:05	autopsy	Werll....... you know an Nvidia OR aTI
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2021-06-30 07:44:21	autopsy	iNTEL COULD TOO BUT NOT ONE OF THIER GEODE MOBILE CARDS CHIPS.
2021-06-30 07:44:29	autopsy	damn caps lock by the A
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2021-06-30 07:46:03	autopsy	dag, try mplayer real quick see if its VLC settings.
2021-06-30 07:46:15	autopsy	Really quick on anmy video that stutters.
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2021-06-30 07:47:00	 *	autopsy burning his eyeball out smoking with the typoing and it burningn it in his mouth frying the surface of the right eye here its all wet and tearing
2021-06-30 07:47:18	autopsy	Did you say tearing?
2021-06-30 07:47:25	autopsy	No jim, tearing.
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2021-06-30 07:47:39	autopsy	TEARS ROLL OF MY FACE NOT TEAR.
2021-06-30 07:48:25	curdlesnoot	autopsy: for example, parallel -j "$(nproc)" oggenc ::: *.flac
2021-06-30 07:48:54	curdlesnoot	much faster. oggenc is not multi-threaded and can't use more than one CPU core.
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2021-06-30 07:50:15	curdlesnoot	well, faster if you have more than one file to process ... obviously.
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2021-06-30 07:52:44	autopsy	Ok.
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2021-06-30 07:53:23	autopsy	I waznt to run parallel stress --cpu 2 --hdd 6 --vm 3 --vm-keep --io 2
2021-06-30 07:53:31	autopsy	Will that make a difference?
2021-06-30 07:54:34	curdlesnoot	you could, but I'm not sure there's a point. stress is presumably already designed to apply maximal stress, and it's already offering you a --cpu option, which presumably has an effect on its internal concurrency.
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2021-06-30 07:54:59	curdlesnoot	at least, i assumed it does, as you just showed "--cpu 2" as an example.
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2021-06-30 07:56:48	curdlesnoot	in any case, you can. parallel doesn't dictate what can and can't be executed.
2021-06-30 07:56:55	autopsy	Well it spawns workers but they are not internally seperated to c ores
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2021-06-30 07:57:09	autopsy	There is no math to sahow stress divides workers between ciores.
2021-06-30 07:57:14	curdlesnoot	I see.
2021-06-30 07:57:16	autopsy	The machine would neeed to do that.
2021-06-30 07:57:43	autopsy	--cpu 2 means two workers on sqrt()
2021-06-30 07:57:54	peetaur	rebooted into my shiny new kernel and all the weird nfs issues are fixed (new mountd really does NOT like kernel 4.19) but this stupid issue persists: https://imgur.com/a/yLueR7T  :(
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2021-06-30 07:59:14	curdlesnoot	autopsy: in any case, it's easily done with bash, `nproc=$(nproc); for (( i = 0; i < nproc; i++ )); do stress ... & done`. later, `kill $(jobs -p)`.
2021-06-30 07:59:18	--	Gabs is now known as seunick
2021-06-30 08:00:16	mntee	how can I handle directory path with things like \n in it, for starting point in gnu find? it seems to forcefully escape every \ with additional \, so for example dirname like $'some \n dirname' will result in 'some \\n dirname' and then it complains it can't find such directory. same story if I pass an escaped path, it will just add additional \ to everything
2021-06-30 08:00:22	--	seunick is now known as Gabs
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2021-06-30 08:01:32	ananke	using parallel to run stress (especially stress-ng) is oddly redundant
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2021-06-30 08:01:44	curdlesnoot	mntee: you're talking about gnu find but then proceeding to talk about a particular method of bash quoting. can you clarify with some example of what you're trying to do?
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2021-06-30 08:01:55	peetaur	mntee: seems to work as expected... eg.   find $'some\n dir'     or  just    find s<tab>  and see what it does; what did you try?
2021-06-30 08:02:14	peetaur	can you show things like versions and all the exact output?
2021-06-30 08:02:22	curdlesnoot	yeah, $'some\n dir' will be taken exactly as-is by find. some, newline, space, dir.
2021-06-30 08:02:24	peetaur	and commands/input...
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2021-06-30 08:02:55	curdlesnoot	there's no mangling or decoding or anything else that happens.
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2021-06-30 08:03:52	curdlesnoot	Masklin: here's the pre-wait-n way, if push comes to shove: http://wooledge.org/~greybot/meta/parallel. it's quite clever.
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2021-06-30 08:04:28	peetaur	mntee: how do you get the \\ ? is it from tab completion? (then it's bash, or your distro's tab completion scripts) or after you hit enter? (then no clue what it is ...doesn't make sense to me)
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2021-06-30 08:07:19	autopsy	mntee,  try --\n
2021-06-30 08:07:21	mntee	peetaur: i save the directory name to variable, and then use that variable
2021-06-30 08:07:54	autopsy	Then again 'Name \n sopmething '
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2021-06-30 08:08:05	curdlesnoot	mntee: an example of how you're doing it would be exceptionally helpful at this point.
2021-06-30 08:08:58	curdlesnoot	also, you can use declare -p varname to check that its value is in the form that you think it is.
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2021-06-30 08:09:56	curdlesnoot	as long as you're double quoting the expansion of the variable in the course of passing to find, if it DoesntWork(tm), then the value is either wrong or the given directory name doesn't exist.
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2021-06-30 08:12:13	curdlesnoot	or ... it begins with a dash and needs to be qualified with ./ but I'm guessing that's not the issue.
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2021-06-30 08:16:56	peetaur	mntee: like how exactly?      x=$'some dir'; find "$x"   works for me
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2021-06-30 08:19:43	curdlesnoot	the value is almost certainly wrong.
2021-06-30 08:20:15	curdlesnoot	but without any further explanation, there's not much more to be said.
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2021-06-30 08:20:52	curdlesnoot	talking about "gnu find" and saying "it proceeds to forcibly escape" is an obvious red flag (no it doesn't).
2021-06-30 08:21:04	mntee	peetaur: myvar="$(printf '%q' $'some\n dir')", then find "$myvar"
2021-06-30 08:21:15	curdlesnoot	wrong.
2021-06-30 08:21:23	curdlesnoot	myvar=$'some\n dir'; find "$myvar"
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2021-06-30 08:22:41	curdlesnoot	unless you're injecting the find command into a remote shell - say, over ssh - in which case it's right, but you don't double quote $myvar. example: myvar=$(printf %q $'some\n dir'; ssh host "find $myvar"
2021-06-30 08:23:07	curdlesnoot	if it's not involving shellcode injection then using %q is nonsense.
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2021-06-30 08:23:33	mntee	ok the problem is i might get input that is escaped using %q
2021-06-30 08:23:42	mntee	what now
2021-06-30 08:23:54	omegatron	or use  printf -v myvariable '%...' "some value"   if it needs to be printf
2021-06-30 08:24:06	curdlesnoot	mntee: are you not able to change the situation so that it isn't?
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2021-06-30 08:24:30	curdlesnoot	mntee: (that would be preferable, if possible)
2021-06-30 08:24:32	mntee	not that i know of
2021-06-30 08:25:08	ZenixOwler	guys, i was trying to read through the man page of iwd to see where it locates the conf file, but it says something like "$CONFIGURATION_DIRECTORY" which is provided by systemd, is there anyhow i can get systemd to tell me that specific variable ?
2021-06-30 08:25:40	curdlesnoot	mntee: hmm. %b _might_ work, but I'm not sure that it's complete. testing.
2021-06-30 08:26:15	peetaur	mntee: you can't use %q like that... it's escaping it. You should use %s
2021-06-30 08:26:51	peetaur	but if your string has * and things find will interpret, then you need to escape those :)
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2021-06-30 08:26:56	rascul	store the raw input separate so you can use it unmangled
2021-06-30 08:27:07	rascul	and don't use that mangled stuff for find
2021-06-30 08:27:51	peetaur	or make your own escaping that only escapes what you don't want find to use, such as *
2021-06-30 08:27:51	mntee	it's already passed mangled as far as i know, it's just shell input completion
2021-06-30 08:27:59	curdlesnoot	mntee: unfortunately, if it's genuinely beyond your power to change the %q encoded inputs you are receiving, you'll probably have to use eval to evaluate the input, which then makes shellcode injection possible.
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2021-06-30 08:28:45	curdlesnoot	if you _know_ it's %q encoded, it's safe for bash, but still.
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2021-06-30 08:29:17	curdlesnoot	I assume you're receiving input from a program that's not under your control?
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2021-06-30 08:31:33	curdlesnoot	e.g. eval "dir=$q_encoded_value"; find "$dir". not ideal.
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2021-06-30 08:34:05	curdlesnoot	I still think you're hiding something relevant, though. myvar="$(printf '%q' $'some\n dir')" is not an example of "shell input completion".
2021-06-30 08:34:22	mntee	hiding what
2021-06-30 08:34:28	omegatron	required information to help you
2021-06-30 08:34:30	mntee	i'm doing custom completion for bash command
2021-06-30 08:34:37	curdlesnoot	see, that's relevant information.
2021-06-30 08:35:00	mntee	guess i was not being specific enough
2021-06-30 08:36:03	autopsy	$'some \n dir'
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2021-06-30 08:36:16	autopsy	What dir?
2021-06-30 08:36:30	mntee	it's just an example of funny input
2021-06-30 08:36:34	autopsy	What derectory are you in?
2021-06-30 08:36:50	mntee	it can be $'hello \n friend' if it makes it better for you
2021-06-30 08:36:52	curdlesnoot	[m]testman: in any case, if it's encoded by bash itself, it's safe to eval.
2021-06-30 08:36:55	curdlesnoot	oops, sorry.
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2021-06-30 08:37:29	mntee	the point is, user can obviously input part of escaped filename and it should complete it, and have it ready for shell evaluation, so it needs to be escaped
2021-06-30 08:37:31	autopsy	Hello anything gets my sudden disaprovaL AND MISUNDERSTANDING.
2021-06-30 08:37:38	-->	lsrtl_ (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 08:37:39	autopsy	lIKE hELLO WORLD I9N c
2021-06-30 08:37:43	-->	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 08:37:50	autopsy	All it is is a lesson on printf
2021-06-30 08:37:53	autopsy	Its stupid.
2021-06-30 08:38:15	autopsy	I'm a starter but I didn't want to start that low.
2021-06-30 08:38:23	blackgatonegro	Hello people, got first dose of the vaccine today.
2021-06-30 08:38:30	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e86:9228::684b:bb02) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-30 08:38:56	blackgatonegro	Eh, if you can't handle the Teminal, use Mint?
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2021-06-30 08:41:32	Kyv	Mint has a terminal
2021-06-30 08:41:36	Kyv	in there somewhere
2021-06-30 08:42:23	sudomann	how can i set `code` as my default text editor
2021-06-30 08:42:33	blackgatonegro	Yes but you can do most things without it. Is quite user friendly.
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2021-06-30 08:43:21	sudomann	trying to edit some properties in a tool with the command `sem edit project my_project_name` but getting
2021-06-30 08:43:22	sudomann	error: Editor closed with with 'exit status 127'
2021-06-30 08:43:22	mntee	wow so it's true vaccine has ill effects
2021-06-30 08:43:24	blackgatonegro	Unfortunately while there is  debian edition there isn't a devuan edition.
2021-06-30 08:43:54	blackgatonegro	sudomann file permissions? Bad install?
2021-06-30 08:44:06	peetaur	mntee: what made you say that?
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2021-06-30 08:44:33	blackgatonegro	Found devian has a more up to date icecat, non official but whatever.
2021-06-30 08:45:13	sudomann	blackgatonegro, I installed `sem` with: curl https://storage.googleapis.com/sem-cli-releases/get.sh | bash
2021-06-30 08:45:26	Kyv	devian is the worst typo
2021-06-30 08:45:40	Kyv	could be debian
2021-06-30 08:45:44	Kyv	could be devuan
2021-06-30 08:45:54	Czernobog	Hello guys! I need help. I am getting error while mounting external HDD on Thunar.
2021-06-30 08:46:11	-->	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 08:46:12	peetaur	or deviant
2021-06-30 08:46:13	sudomann	That worked just fine. I configured it with my projects and credentials, but I dont know where the config files its trying to edit live, or why the editor is innaccessible to it
2021-06-30 08:46:21	blackgatonegro	Czernobog reboot and try again with the HHD connected
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2021-06-30 08:46:57	Czernobog	It's a dbus error
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2021-06-30 08:47:16	blackgatonegro	Sometimes more so on on bios, it takes a while for the CPU to realise you have connected an external disk, the bigger it is; the longer it takes.
2021-06-30 08:47:25	blackgatonegro	*old bios
2021-06-30 08:47:28	Czernobog	will that be fixed? I can usually mount it with gnome-disk so that is not an issue
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2021-06-30 08:47:57	blackgatonegro	Czernobog usually reboot with the device plugged lets the bios recognize it.
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2021-06-30 08:48:05	Czernobog	hmm My laptop is pretty new one. It's got a 10th gen i7 10710u cpu
2021-06-30 08:48:16	Czernobog	okay I will try
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2021-06-30 08:48:33	Czernobog	I get the error even I if just open up thunar
2021-06-30 08:48:38	Czernobog	(thunar:23498): dbind-WARNING **: 15:30:43.053: Couldn't register with
2021-06-30 08:48:39	Czernobog	accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include:
2021-06-30 08:48:39	Czernobog	the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security
2021-06-30 08:48:39	Czernobog	policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection
2021-06-30 08:48:39	Czernobog	was broken.
2021-06-30 08:48:48	mntee	what DE/WM?
2021-06-30 08:48:57	Czernobog	I am using xfce with i3wm
2021-06-30 08:49:08	mntee	do you launch i3 with dbus-launch --exit-with-session i3?
2021-06-30 08:49:12	mntee	or how
2021-06-30 08:49:12	peetaur	did intel fix the security bugs yet?
2021-06-30 08:49:22	autopsy	For that message you need at-spi-registery deamone running or ehwatveer.
2021-06-30 08:49:26	blackgatonegro	peetaur not all of them.
2021-06-30 08:49:35	autopsy	and sssd
2021-06-30 08:49:38	fakuve	Sorry people :D  , so by adding an at after the service name when first starting one you instanciate the service ? (meaning you can create as many as you want? ) say `sudo systemctl start sshd@instance1` etc ?
2021-06-30 08:49:39	Czernobog	noo, do I have to? I never had this issue before
2021-06-30 08:49:45	peetaur	I keep seeing people saying they buy new intel cpus but nobody says the things are fixed... it amazes me since ryzen is still better in all the ways except the single core performance
2021-06-30 08:49:48	blackgatonegro	So far they are crippling new chips to fix some bugs
2021-06-30 08:50:11	blackgatonegro	AMD for life
2021-06-30 08:50:12	peetaur	(when you see an "overall" score sort of measurement, the only way intel wins is with a huge bias on single core performance)
2021-06-30 08:50:15	autopsy	Dbus is trickster supreme in its communication acvross host across the room and in front of you. To all sorts of useless daemon stuff running in Gnome.
2021-06-30 08:50:20	<--	cdown_ (~cdown@163.114.131.1) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-30 08:50:43	schillingklaus	the most useless of them being systemd
2021-06-30 08:50:44	curdlesnoot	peetaur: I think only the Core i9 now leads on single-core performance and by nowhere near the margin that Intel was once known for.
2021-06-30 08:50:48	blackgatonegro	daemons are not useless, they just get overused.
2021-06-30 08:52:00	Czernobog	okay that worked!
2021-06-30 08:52:05	blackgatonegro	If you want speed, ram, bios and video card do a lot of the heavy lifting.
2021-06-30 08:52:08	<--	Corder_000 (~Coder_000@179.83.141.204) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-06-30 08:52:08	Czernobog	rebooting with HDD attached fixed it
2021-06-30 08:52:16	blackgatonegro	Glad it helped.
2021-06-30 08:52:27	peetaur	I think the problem is that it is a daemon instead o fjust a lib.... poettering style. Like why is dbus, pulse audio, etc. a daemon instead of just a lib that talks through a single daemon or the kernel? consuming RAM and leaving security holes open for no apparent reason.
2021-06-30 08:52:44	peetaur	and firewalld
2021-06-30 08:53:26	blackgatonegro	peetaur you can close a lot of holes by using right permissions, disabling services you don't use and having the right configuration.
2021-06-30 08:53:52	peetaur	can you really trust desktop UI guys to make a secure system? I'd rather a security team build a thing that talks to the rest
2021-06-30 08:54:06	peetaur	disable all you want and some stupid thing is still going to force you to run dbus
2021-06-30 08:54:21	peetaur	you can find dbus ("desktop bus") running on a headless centos server for example
2021-06-30 08:54:33	blackgatonegro	security, usability, and stability, pick one.
2021-06-30 08:54:42	schillingklaus	of course not. desktop uis are persity incarnate as they try to assimiliate */Linuxto Windows and MacOS
2021-06-30 08:54:54	blackgatonegro	centos is crap and has always been.
2021-06-30 08:55:02	danieldg	dbus iself isn't likely to be the issue, it's the APIs applications expose over it...
2021-06-30 08:55:09	peetaur	with linux, you should be able to choose all 3 ...the freedom is there; there's no "upgrade to pro version so we actually follow software development best practices"
2021-06-30 08:55:11	blackgatonegro	I didn't even last two weeks using it... ugh
2021-06-30 08:55:36	Kyv	yet there it is, the 'vendor lock-in'
2021-06-30 08:55:47	<--	zeden (~zeden@user/zeden) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
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2021-06-30 08:55:58	blackgatonegro	Eh there are completely free Linux distros they just aren't very user friendly.
2021-06-30 08:56:09	fakuve	guyss please yeah :D
2021-06-30 08:56:15	Kyv	how much fuddy duddy stuff do you need to pile in before its user friendly?
2021-06-30 08:56:24	fakuve	Dont be tickelous today yeah? :)
2021-06-30 08:56:29	blackgatonegro	Yeah not getting in this argument just got vaxxed and that.
2021-06-30 08:56:30	blackgatonegro	byr
2021-06-30 08:56:35	blackgatonegro	bye bye
2021-06-30 08:56:37	<--	blackgatonegro (~blackgato@user/blackgatonegro) has left #linux (Leaving to take a nap)
2021-06-30 08:56:44	Kyv	okayyy
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2021-06-30 08:56:59	Kyv	my sympathies for vaxxing yourself
2021-06-30 08:57:01	schillingklaus	user-friendliness is a lie invented by capitalist charlatans
2021-06-30 08:57:06	peetaur	the vendors are there with their awful offerings, but the freedom is there to avoid most of it... but it's hard with things like systemd
2021-06-30 08:57:47	-->	tieinv (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 08:58:50	kokocok	r
2021-06-30 08:59:08	fakuve	guyss Come on!! :)  :)
2021-06-30 08:59:19	schillingklaus	whAT IF FAKUVE'S POINT?
2021-06-30 08:59:48	fakuve	I agree with you Mr schillingklaus :D
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2021-06-30 09:00:41	kokocok	wOw ThAt'S——
2021-06-30 09:00:51	xythrez	User-friendliness is whenever dmesg is at maximum 20 keystrokes away
2021-06-30 09:01:03	autopsy	WiCkED-? YAy$$$!!!
2021-06-30 09:01:25	kokocok	c-c-c-cool
2021-06-30 09:01:43	peetaur	when is dmesg not just 1 click + 6 keystrokes?
2021-06-30 09:02:03	xythrez	No clicks. I don't like the mouse
2021-06-30 09:02:37	kokocok	bruh i ain't gonna lift my hands off the keyboard
2021-06-30 09:03:00	kokocok	yklol
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2021-06-30 09:04:47	peetaur	pure keyboard is great, but there are many tasks where a mouse is better... "that program" rather than "next, next, next, next, next" to get there
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2021-06-30 09:06:29	xythrez	If something ends up being next, next, next, I tend to script it. I have trouble recognizing shapes and icons so it confuses me whenever I see a bunch of them on the screen
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2021-06-30 09:07:04	Kyv	I am sure some people would sooner use keynav or something
2021-06-30 09:07:10	Kyv	I miss browsers with numbered links
2021-06-30 09:07:15	xythrez	When it's typing it tends to be muscle memory
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2021-06-30 09:08:04	Kyv	it is not going to work well tabbing through links on a website
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2021-06-30 09:09:24	xythrez	True. It's why I tend to type out links whenever I can.
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2021-06-30 09:13:29	autopsy	This is my seamonkey: https://imgur.com/gallery/JTBPN9H
2021-06-30 09:15:57	-->	Nimzowitsch (~nimzo@user/nimzowitsch) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 09:15:57	schillingklaus	qutebrowser can number links
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2021-06-30 09:15:57	autopsy	Number links?
2021-06-30 09:15:57	Kyv	true, but then you're using qutebrowser
2021-06-30 09:15:57	autopsy	Number links is like sausage linnks?
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2021-06-30 09:15:57	Kyv	which means python and QtWebEngine
2021-06-30 09:16:06	Kyv	or qtwebkit
2021-06-30 09:16:06	curdlesnoot	have you tried extensions such as Surfing Keys?
2021-06-30 09:16:06	autopsy	Vyvanse
2021-06-30 09:16:23	autopsy	Have you tried over simplifying your ant farms?
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2021-06-30 09:16:57	autopsy	Please expolain what surfing keys is.
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2021-06-30 09:17:20	Helmholtz1	Is it possible to manually point manpages to a man file?
2021-06-30 09:17:45	peetaur	don't put water on your keyboard guys...
2021-06-30 09:18:06	peetaur	Helmholtz1: you can run man on a specific file path if you want... is that what you want?\
2021-06-30 09:18:07	curdlesnoot	autopsy: https://github.com/brookhong/Surfingkeys
2021-06-30 09:18:29	curdlesnoot	what is "manpages", in this context?
2021-06-30 09:18:39	autopsy	man 2 manfile
2021-06-30 09:18:47	autopsy	man -p files.tgz
2021-06-30 09:18:56	Helmholtz1	peetaur, thanks should have ./
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2021-06-30 09:19:17	Helmholtz1	And is it possible to add a directory to some MANPATH?
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2021-06-30 09:19:26	autopsy	Yes.
2021-06-30 09:19:27	akik	Helmholtz1: yes
2021-06-30 09:19:59	Helmholtz1	how?
2021-06-30 09:20:04	autopsy	Read on how tio write a manual page in the .il .b .colors I forgot what it was called.
2021-06-30 09:20:08	autopsy	Latex?
2021-06-30 09:20:11	<--	thiras (~thiras@user/thiras) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-30 09:20:12	autopsy	Tex or groff.
2021-06-30 09:20:16	autopsy	Groff.
2021-06-30 09:20:24	akik	Helmholtz1: export MANPATH=your_path
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2021-06-30 09:20:30	autopsy	I only wrote 3 in my life.
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2021-06-30 09:20:54	Helmholtz1	akik, so the name is actually manpath? why is it empty by default? shouldn't it contain /usr/share/man?
2021-06-30 09:21:28	akik	Helmholtz1: i think it's called "the defaults"
2021-06-30 09:21:28	curdlesnoot	some distributions make a point of defining MANPATH in the default execution environment. some don't.
2021-06-30 09:21:48	akik	it's MANPATH with capital letters
2021-06-30 09:21:49	Dagmar	No one ships man pages that don't work tho
2021-06-30 09:21:49	curdlesnoot	"By default, man uses manpath derived code to determine the path to search."
2021-06-30 09:21:50	autopsy	Then do mandb
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2021-06-30 09:21:55	Helmholtz1	akik, so it always looks /usr/share/man regardless of MANPATH?
2021-06-30 09:22:29	Dagmar	You know, it kinda feels like this would be defined in a man page somewhere
2021-06-30 09:22:40	akik	bat man page
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2021-06-30 09:22:50	wwalker	Three points, Dagmar
2021-06-30 09:23:03	autopsy	bats are cool.
2021-06-30 09:23:11	Sez	usually such things are defined while package compile
2021-06-30 09:23:18	DPA	How to set the man path? Just look at the man page "man man". Manpage not found :)
2021-06-30 09:23:19	autopsy	I like Loiusville SLuggerss.
2021-06-30 09:23:22	curdlesnoot	Helmholtz1: ( unset MANPATH; manpath ) # see how that works?
2021-06-30 09:23:52	akik	this is the way.. krhmm path
2021-06-30 09:23:53	autopsy	Manpages is a misnomer.
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2021-06-30 09:24:06	autopsy	Her ematnt man to search manpath not manpaths to search man.
2021-06-30 09:24:18	<--	keypusher (keypusher@user/keypusher) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-30 09:24:19	Dagmar	Try fewer drugs
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2021-06-30 09:24:27	Dagmar	...or maybe more drugs.
2021-06-30 09:24:29	autopsy	And if man searches man then we got a problem cause it sounds like they want something from men in thier hands.
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2021-06-30 09:24:34	Dagmar	Your dosage is definitely off.
2021-06-30 09:24:44	autopsy	I'm not a man I'[m a boyduder guy.
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2021-06-30 09:24:55	autopsy	Vyvanse
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2021-06-30 09:25:16	autopsy	Drugs are3 baaaaad.
2021-06-30 09:25:50	 *	autopsy looks around "Is he talkin ta me"?
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2021-06-30 09:26:08	autopsy	Well you're the only one on drugs here.
2021-06-30 09:26:18	autopsy	Oh yeah I forgot I am but you're on what not drugs?
2021-06-30 09:26:22	wwalker	curdlesnoot: that doesn't work, you have to remove the ( )
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2021-06-30 09:26:32	akik	autopsy: you're talking to a mirror
2021-06-30 09:26:56	autopsy	Lookin at the man in tha mirror... wanting him to Change his waaaays.
2021-06-30 09:27:07	autopsy	Micheal was cool to my sis.
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2021-06-30 09:27:13	curdlesnoot	wwalker: it does work in POSIX sh and bash. it's a standard method of initiating a subshell. the whole point is not to permanently unset MANPATH, in case it was already set in the unsuspecting user's environment.
2021-06-30 09:27:15	autopsy	I didn't like it in the 80s
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2021-06-30 09:27:32	autopsy	Madonna too in the 80s
2021-06-30 09:27:40	curdlesnoot	wwalker: rather, unset it just for the purpose of showing that manpath still produces something meaningful.
2021-06-30 09:28:03	autopsy	Quit farting on everything guy.
2021-06-30 09:28:10	Helmholtz1	ok I added a dir containing manpages to manpath
2021-06-30 09:28:27	Helmholtz1	but it still doesn't open them No manual entry for
2021-06-30 09:29:05	Kyv	autopsy is talking to me
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2021-06-30 09:29:12	b0rf	^ off-topic
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2021-06-30 09:34:14	Sez	Helmholtz1: you sure there exists a manpage for your search? and you sure you set the envioument variable right?
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2021-06-30 09:35:04	Helmholtz1	Sez, I don't set env var. If I add a path, man also searches for manpages in dirs around path binary. If I execute `manpath` it shows the dirs that have a manpage
2021-06-30 09:35:19	Helmholtz1	But they have formats like .3 or .1
2021-06-30 09:35:45	Helmholtz1	If I cd into there and man ./blah.1 it works
2021-06-30 09:35:52	Sez	that is because they are encoded such
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2021-06-30 09:37:17	wwalker	curdlesnoot: ah, I see, you wanted to show what manpath will do on its own.  I was thinking about using it to set MANPATH so that man would work for Helmholtz1
2021-06-30 09:37:20	Sez	so to get you right, Helmholtz1 you just say have xyz.1 and try man xyz and do not get anything, though your manpath is set right?
2021-06-30 09:37:40	curdlesnoot	wwalker: I see.
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2021-06-30 09:38:25	curdlesnoot	it was concerning "so it always looks /usr/share/man regardless of MANPATH?", basically.
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2021-06-30 09:38:50	Helmholtz1	Sez, yes, `man ./xyz.1` works when I cd there. Its dir is listed in manpath. but from ~ in doesn't wor
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2021-06-30 09:40:17	Sez	Helmholtz1: either your man package is setup strange whilst building, you did not set the manpath env right or man got broken, or more than one of this.... strange...
2021-06-30 09:41:05	Helmholtz1	Sez do you have fzf?
2021-06-30 09:41:18	Helmholtz1	If you've installed fzf via manual git in ~, it behaves like this
2021-06-30 09:41:38	Helmholtz1	manpath -> ..../home/username/.fzf/man
2021-06-30 09:41:45	Helmholtz1	however here man fzf works ine
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2021-06-30 09:44:40	akik	Helmholtz1: i use the MANPATH variable so that i set it to the man directory that has the subdirectories, such as man1
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2021-06-30 09:45:52	Sez	Helmholtz1: well really it would be easier to go for the documentation of your distributions man package to look for where to set the manpath right maybe
2021-06-30 09:46:34	Helmholtz1	Xubuntu 18.04 +i3wm
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2021-06-30 09:46:45	Sez	as it could be implemented differently if and how and so on... usually as more than i had suggested setting the env MANPATH or adding to it should suffice
2021-06-30 09:46:45	Helmholtz1	Sez,  ok thanks
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2021-06-30 09:47:23	Sez	if not well than it is something setup other ways with your man, maybe
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2021-06-30 10:01:21	mntee	ok i think i found a good way to reverse %q. first do %b, then read into another variable
2021-06-30 10:01:26	mntee	at least it seems to be working
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2021-06-30 10:01:58	mntee	reverses $'some \n dir' at least, so that's something
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2021-06-30 10:10:08	Dr_Coke	anybody know what I can do about this /usr/bin/python3: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libvulkan_radeon.so: undefined symbol: amdgpu_query_video_caps_info
2021-06-30 10:11:06	peetaur	Dr_Coke: it means that lib is not the version they expect (linked against during compilation)
2021-06-30 10:11:18	peetaur	so either recompile one or the other, or get matching precompiled versions
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2021-06-30 10:11:53	peetaur	do you have amdgpu-pro installed? I think vulkan is from there
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2021-06-30 10:12:10	Dr_Coke	I have amdgpu installed
2021-06-30 10:12:27	Dr_Coke	there was the amdgpu-pro option to install as well
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2021-06-30 10:17:44	vttv	whois
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2021-06-30 10:20:30	gry	Hello Hello
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2021-06-30 10:20:39	drip	whereis
2021-06-30 10:20:49	curdlesnoot	mntee: I already mentioned %b
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2021-06-30 10:21:38	curdlesnoot	mntee: printf -v decoded_var %b "$var". it only deals with backslash escapes, though.
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2021-06-30 10:32:51	FuriousGeorge	i was looking for a way to view disk usage as a history, similar to the proxmox web interface if anyone has ever used that
2021-06-30 10:33:17	FuriousGeorge	but there don't seem to be many good options out there
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2021-06-30 10:33:45	FuriousGeorge	i used to use gkrellm and gkrellmd, but what is the name of that protocol that start with an s for system information
2021-06-30 10:33:46	FuriousGeorge	?
2021-06-30 10:33:47	-->	[jamez] (~james@64.25.196.228) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 10:33:55	uwharrie	FuriousGeorge: SNMP?
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2021-06-30 10:34:02	FuriousGeorge	i think that's it
2021-06-30 10:34:13	FuriousGeorge	i kept coming up with smtp
2021-06-30 10:34:24	uwharrie	Also look at prometheus, rrdtool, cacti, zabbix, nagios, etc, etc
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2021-06-30 10:34:42	autopsy	systemctl
2021-06-30 10:34:45	autopsy	smartctl
2021-06-30 10:34:48	autopsy	dmidecode
2021-06-30 10:34:53	autopsy	efibootmgr
2021-06-30 10:35:05	autopsy	firstboot anaconda python rpm Fedora.
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2021-06-30 10:35:41	FuriousGeorge	uwharrie:  i have some experience with zabbix, but i was looking for something a bit lighter weight just to check a few things
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2021-06-30 10:36:57	FuriousGeorge	do people still use gkrellm?
2021-06-30 10:36:59	uwharrie	or you can go as lo-fi as cron + df > diskusage.txt + gnuplot
2021-06-30 10:37:23	curdlesnoot	munin is (somewhat) lightweight and has a core "df" plugin. data collection and graphing is performed with rrdtool. if you really want something lightweight, you could just implement a dead simple service that periodically writes readings out somewhere.
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2021-06-30 10:39:53	FuriousGeorge	uwharrie:  that may be as low fi as i wanna go.
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2021-06-30 10:40:08	FuriousGeorge	curdlesnoot:  that sounds interesting too
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2021-06-30 10:40:52	FuriousGeorge	i've been doing while true; do pydf <volumes i want to monitror>; sleep 1; clear; done
2021-06-30 10:40:52	<--	Adoi (~Adoi@user/adoi) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-30 10:40:59	FuriousGeorge	but that doesn't give me a history
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2021-06-30 10:41:12	curdlesnoot	done >> somelogfile
2021-06-30 10:41:29	curdlesnoot	though the output of pydf probably isn't ideal for recording
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2021-06-30 10:41:43	FuriousGeorge	df would be be better
2021-06-30 10:41:53	FuriousGeorge	probably
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2021-06-30 10:42:14	curdlesnoot	having a well defined format, such as "timestamp,mountpoint,usage" would be better.
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2021-06-30 10:44:19	FuriousGeorge	i'm not a huge bash guy.  i would need to dust off php to get it done quick...  was thinking of basically parsing df output into an array, then drawing bars with a loop and like a '#' character
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2021-06-30 10:46:09	curdlesnoot	using pretty-printed data to store data samples is somewhat unconventional but sure, nothing stops you.
2021-06-30 10:46:48	FuriousGeorge	curdlesnoot:  it doesn't have to be pretty printed, i can parse whatever...  maybe something in sys
2021-06-30 10:47:00	FuriousGeorge	if i don't have to do it in bash, it's trivial
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2021-06-30 10:47:10	FuriousGeorge	if i have to do it in bash, it will take a day or more
2021-06-30 10:47:18	FuriousGeorge	i'd rather not do either
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2021-06-30 10:47:56	FuriousGeorge	even if it is 'easy', these things have a way of snowballing
2021-06-30 10:48:09	-->	jphaynes66 (~TerraFirm@91.90.126.9) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 10:48:23	curdlesnoot	you don't need to parse df output. you can generate JSON with the likes of `findmnt --real -J -o target,source,fstype,use%`, for example.
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2021-06-30 10:48:49	curdlesnoot	(if you're going to end up using something like PHP, it makes a lot more sense)
2021-06-30 10:50:43	FuriousGeorge	curdlesnoot:  that would be clever.  didn't know about findmnt -J
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2021-06-30 10:51:35	curdlesnoot	but if you want an off-the-shelf monitoring system, then cacti, munin and such are probably among the smallest ones that will take care of the hard parts.
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2021-06-30 10:51:52	curdlesnoot	and do graphing.
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2021-06-30 10:52:10	FuriousGeorge	curdlesnoot:  gkrellm is abandoned or otherwise outdated?
2021-06-30 10:52:12	velix	Anyone with an idea, why rsync suddently throws such an error? Worked for months without a problem https://bpa.st/BWOQ
2021-06-30 10:52:38	FuriousGeorge	mostly curious, not because i'd rather use it
2021-06-30 10:53:03	curdlesnoot	FuriousGeorge: well, it's for interactive use, isn't it? if it works, and you're happy with it, no problem. I don't think it's designed to record data over the long term but it's been a long time since I've used it.
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2021-06-30 10:53:41	FuriousGeorge	i haven't used it in 12 years probably
2021-06-30 10:53:44	koollman	velix: network problem, or something killing rsync/ssh on the remote side
2021-06-30 10:53:59	koollman	(most likely causes, that could happen after months)
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2021-06-30 10:54:52	velix	koollman: I just tried "ssh tar > local", it works without a problem. Also "rsync" to a local directory on the remote site works.
2021-06-30 10:55:05	velix	The ssh connection is stable as hell.
2021-06-30 10:55:16	FuriousGeorge	potentially a hardware issue?
2021-06-30 10:55:25	FuriousGeorge	anything in system log
2021-06-30 10:55:28	FuriousGeorge	?
2021-06-30 10:55:46	velix	check it already, nope. no syslog, no dmesg.
2021-06-30 10:55:46	koollman	velix: anything in the system or ssh logs on the remote side ?
2021-06-30 10:56:01	velix	koollman: only auth stuff. But no issues in there. The connection gets just closed.
2021-06-30 10:56:09	velix	I've restarted both servers, of course.
2021-06-30 10:56:33	FuriousGeorge	can you try a different client or server, for lack of a better idea
2021-06-30 10:56:37	curdlesnoot	at this point, it might be better directed to #rsync
2021-06-30 10:56:42	koollman	still points to network problems to me :)
2021-06-30 10:56:52	FuriousGeorge	maybe take the cartridge out and blow on it, if it has one of those
2021-06-30 10:56:53	velix	curdlesnoot: I've posted there 6 hours and 1 hour ago. Doesn't help :(
2021-06-30 10:57:01	velix	koollman: let me try netcat.
2021-06-30 10:57:03	curdlesnoot	or not. seems they didn't make it to libera. hmm.
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2021-06-30 10:57:24	velix	Are there some sensitive tools I could use to check the system? Like a memory check without the need of a reboot?
2021-06-30 10:57:55	koollman	velix: that wouldn't be required. I would expect some kernel logs if a process died too badly
2021-06-30 10:58:10	velix	Really, no entry in there. No "killed." etc.
2021-06-30 10:58:11	peetaur	velix: you mean like prime95 stress test?
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2021-06-30 10:58:18	velix	8 GB of RAM would shock me.
2021-06-30 10:58:30	koollman	velix: does rsync works for something else ? (like a tiny file)
2021-06-30 10:58:33	velix	peetaur: yeah, but justn ormal testing.
2021-06-30 10:58:47	peetaur	what is "normal" ?
2021-06-30 10:58:48	velix	koollman: Yeah, it works for like 10 seconds and then BOOOM. but always on a different file.
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2021-06-30 10:58:59	velix	peetaur: I don't want 100% cpu on this system ;)
2021-06-30 10:59:00	FuriousGeorge	p95 would work, but like he said, kernel would dump all kinds of stuff in log for bad ram
2021-06-30 10:59:05	velix	fsck on both sides: no problem :(
2021-06-30 10:59:31	FuriousGeorge	there is the stress command
2021-06-30 10:59:33	peetaur	for cpu stability (and some amount of ram testing), prime95 works great...for ram memtest86+ is the best (finds everything that isn't about just waiting long without writing and reading broken data back) but needs reboot into it
2021-06-30 10:59:35	FuriousGeorge	or stress-ng
2021-06-30 10:59:40	koollman	velix: any regularity to the timing ? does it always fail after 10s, or at some interval ? if you have many short rsync in a loop, how many of them fail ?
2021-06-30 10:59:48	curdlesnoot	velix: "255" does hint at an error at - at least - the level of ssh, come to think of it.
2021-06-30 10:59:58	FuriousGeorge	and you need to support legacy bios to use memtest now
2021-06-30 11:00:04	jiffe	any idea why I'm still seeing output when running curl https://www.openssl.org/source/openssl-1.1.1k.tar.gz -o ~/openssl-1.1.1k.tar.gz 2>&1 > /dev/null ?
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2021-06-30 11:00:24	koollman	velix: also, of course, any known firewall between the server and client side ?
2021-06-30 11:00:24	jiffe	shell is bash
2021-06-30 11:00:27	velix	koollman: No, at "about" 10 seconds. I didn't measure it now.
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2021-06-30 11:00:37	velix	koollman: Sure, iptables, but no rule to kill it.
2021-06-30 11:00:43	velix	koollman: it's a normal SSH connection.
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2021-06-30 11:00:45	curdlesnoot	jiffe: because you cloned fd 1 to fd 2 _then_ opened fd 1 to write to /dev/null. wrong order. but why would you not use curl -sS to begin with?
2021-06-30 11:00:58	curdlesnoot	rather than throw away all of stderr unconditionally.
2021-06-30 11:01:14	velix	curdlesnoot: Yeah, I already googled this. But it can be anything.
2021-06-30 11:01:17	velix	aaannyything
2021-06-30 11:01:20	curdlesnoot	velix: yeah, I know :/
2021-06-30 11:01:29	koollman	jiffe: > /dev/null 2>&1
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2021-06-30 11:01:42	curdlesnoot	or just curl -s, if you insist on disposing of errors regardless.
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2021-06-30 11:01:45	[jamez]	velix: rsync -e 'bash -x -c "ssh -vvvv $0 $@ 2>/tmp/rsync-ssh.stderr | tee /tmp/rsync.stdout"' can help you get more information on the SSH connection, and possibly some extra rsync logs.
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2021-06-30 11:03:06	velix	[jamez]: my logs were done with -vv, but I can try -vvvv
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2021-06-30 11:05:08	velix	[jamez]: Sorry, do I need to fill $0 and $@ with something?
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2021-06-30 11:10:11	kubast2	Hey what can cause a "/system/bin/sh: bin/busybox: No such file or directory?" the thing is it isn't a static busybox, would it show that if it can't find /ld/ld-musl*.so ?
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2021-06-30 11:11:07	[jamez]	velix: You shouldn't have to.  those should fill in with the rsync command.  I coppied the command from stack overflow, so I'm not 100% sure :D
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2021-06-30 11:13:43	nish	How do I go for sharing [only] usb0 from something say, Pi Zero to OpenWRT? Assume both USB and Ethernet are available
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2021-06-30 11:14:24	akik	kubast2: if that's android, try #android
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2021-06-30 11:17:53	sumthing1980	hello I want to store a shit ton of small files but dont want to be bothered with setting/adjusting blocksizes what is the best choice of fs for this?
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2021-06-30 11:19:05	ikonia	anyone got their head really around dnsmasq, I'm trying to understand if I can actaully use dnsmasq as a genuine forward/reverse dns resolver, rather than something that parses /etc/hosts and needs manual management
2021-06-30 11:20:09	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: what's the goal? to reduce storage overhead?
2021-06-30 11:20:15	velix	[jamez]: Sorry, too risky to use such code in my environment without knowing what it could do.
2021-06-30 11:20:19	ikonia	if dnsmasq is acting as a dns server, can it truly update itself as a process/database to act as a resolver
2021-06-30 11:20:29	sumthing1980	Instead of using a db for storing html files from a crawler, I want to store as files
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2021-06-30 11:20:36	sumthing1980	curdlesnoot:
2021-06-30 11:20:38	[jamez]	velix: Understandable.  Try running it in against a VM first.
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2021-06-30 11:21:11	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: ok, but in so far as the choice of filesystem is concerned, are you seeking to eliminate storage overheads? what is the percieved concern?
2021-06-30 11:21:28	nish	ikonia: Are you asking if you can use dnsmasq as recursive resolver?
2021-06-30 11:22:15	sumthing1980	yes 4 k blocksize will be a lot of waste, ideally Id like a fs with small blocksize for small files and large for large, in the same file system but I dont know if thats even an option
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2021-06-30 11:22:57	sumthing1980	Or Ill just use 1k blocksize or something low
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2021-06-30 11:23:25	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: ext4 can store data directly in the inode now, if you use linux >=3.8 and the inline_data feature flag. the major flaw with ext4 is that inode allocation is static. you have to think about the block-to-inode ratio up front and it can't be changed later.
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2021-06-30 11:23:54	ikonia	nish: no, as a SOA for forward/arapa lookup of a dns name/ip range
2021-06-30 11:24:05	sumthing1980	So I should know how many files Im gonna get?
2021-06-30 11:24:07	ikonia	the docs I've been reading suggests it can only simulate this is you manually maintain /etc/hosts
2021-06-30 11:24:14	ikonia	but I could be wrong on how it works
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2021-06-30 11:24:28	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: xfs is generally better than ext4 regading slack, in my experience, and has dynamic inode allocation but no other notable features that obviously pertain to this problem. reiserfs is probably very good at this but ... well, it's old and in maintenance mode. I'm not sure I'd recommend it for production use in current_year.
2021-06-30 11:25:05	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: so ... maybe ext4 with inline_data, if you don't care about having to reason with the number of inodes up front.
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2021-06-30 11:25:15	sumthing1980	using mariadb or other db would not have this overhead problem right?
2021-06-30 11:25:30	curdlesnoot	no. at least, not in this fashion.
2021-06-30 11:25:59	sumthing1980	ok thanks
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2021-06-30 11:26:17	sumthing1980	Ill look into those
2021-06-30 11:27:07	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: I should add that inline_data only helps with extremely small files. the normal inode size for an ext4 filestem is 256 bytes.
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2021-06-30 11:27:39	sumthing1980	I should start adding the files and then see what the requirements are
2021-06-30 11:27:40	curdlesnoot	reiserfs was king of avoiding file slack but, again, I can't recommend it in good faith now.
2021-06-30 11:27:44	curdlesnoot	(especially with tail packing)
2021-06-30 11:28:01	curdlesnoot	yes, doing some tests would be sensible.
2021-06-30 11:28:07	sumthing1980	ok thanks
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2021-06-30 11:30:33	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: oh, one more thing. you can still use a smaller inode size of 128 bytes with ext*, with some tradeoffs (no nanosecond timestamps, for example). that would save you 128 bytes for every inode that is allocated in the course of creating the filesystem. the number of inodes depeonds on the given inode-ratio.
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2021-06-30 11:30:45	curdlesnoot	block size remains an independent matter.
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2021-06-30 11:31:29	b0rf	This new IRC domain is moderated by a bunch of feelio fags
2021-06-30 11:31:38	sumthing1980	curdlesnoot: where do you change these things?
2021-06-30 11:31:41	akik	b0rf: why so salty?
2021-06-30 11:31:52	b0rf	I've just had salty experiences in several of these other channels so far
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2021-06-30 11:32:08	b0rf	These people suck
2021-06-30 11:32:15	akik	b0rf: maybe it's you?
2021-06-30 11:32:20	b0rf	It's not.
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2021-06-30 11:32:25	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: see /etc/mke2fs.conf, man mke2fs, man tune2fs.
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2021-06-30 11:32:28	miko	feelio fags..?
2021-06-30 11:32:33	b0rf	Ya just like
2021-06-30 11:32:33	sumthing1980	ok thanks
2021-06-30 11:32:37	b0rf	everything be all feelings or whatever
2021-06-30 11:32:53	velix	FANATIC NEWS !!
2021-06-30 11:32:54	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: in fact, there's already a "small" profile in mke2fs.conf
2021-06-30 11:32:56	velix	fantastic*
2021-06-30 11:32:59	b0rf	people trying to tell me how to talk and shit
2021-06-30 11:33:00	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: so that might be a good starting point.
2021-06-30 11:33:03	uwharrie	b0rf: take it to #linux-ops if you feel the need to whine
2021-06-30 11:33:05	velix	The admin has rebooted the VM and now anything works \o/
2021-06-30 11:33:06	b0rf	"over sensitive"
2021-06-30 11:33:10	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-30 11:33:10	b0rf	Ah, thanks
2021-06-30 11:33:16	b0rf	will do.
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2021-06-30 11:33:31	akik	b0rf: language, please
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2021-06-30 11:33:34	akik	:)
2021-06-30 11:33:39	b0rf	see, this ^
2021-06-30 11:33:42	b0rf	This is lame
2021-06-30 11:33:46	b0rf	I don't like that
2021-06-30 11:34:09	b0rf	let live already.. moving on
2021-06-30 11:34:15	curdlesnoot	but ##linux had a bad language rule even before moving here (didn't it?)
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2021-06-30 11:34:29	miko	b0rf: it's more that people prefer constructive collaboration over insulting people
2021-06-30 11:34:30	uwharrie	curdlesnoot: yes
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2021-06-30 11:34:57	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: the profiles can be selected with the -T option. it's in the mke2fs man page.
2021-06-30 11:35:04	b0rf	taking this to linux-ops
2021-06-30 11:35:13	 *	miko grabs popcorn
2021-06-30 11:35:18	sumthing1980	thanks Ill be taking off now thanks for the help
2021-06-30 11:35:35	brejela	Hey look. An idiot.
2021-06-30 11:35:43	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-06-30 11:35:47	 *	brejela grabs some of miko's popcorn
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2021-06-30 11:35:56	b0rf	^ "constructive collaboration over insulting people"
2021-06-30 11:36:01	b0rf	"makes direct insult"
2021-06-30 11:36:01	curdlesnoot	sumthing1980: ok. yeah, I think that's probably going to be a reasonable choice. just look at the number of inodes and, if it's not in line with future projections, twiddle with the ratio.
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2021-06-30 11:36:08	b0rf	Fair?
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2021-06-30 11:37:30	curdlesnoot	b0rf: probably. but moderation depends on which ops are in attendance, whether they're following at the time etc. it's a volunteer effort so it's never going to performed 100% evenly.
2021-06-30 11:37:34	miko	hm, how about constructive collaboration within the confinements of those who actually want to collaborate/are collaborating?
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2021-06-30 11:38:43	brejela	miko: Gasp! Imagine having to be a decent person to be a part of a group focused on collaborative software?
2021-06-30 11:38:59	miko	i am shocked
2021-06-30 11:39:17	curdlesnoot	miko: I shall duly collaborate with you by seconding your constructive suggestion to constructively collaborate within the confinements of those who, are indeed, constructively collaborating.
2021-06-30 11:40:24	miko	curdlesnoot: ;p
2021-06-30 11:40:24	brejela	I collaborate with curdlesnoot's collaboration by thirdying miko's constructive suggestion to constructively collaborate within the confinements of those who are indeed, constructively collaborating.
2021-06-30 11:40:40	 *	brejela takes a breath.
2021-06-30 11:40:42	uwharrie	but abusing others is part of my identity, you're repressing me by not allowing me to repress
2021-06-30 11:41:00	brejela	uwharrie: "Kink-shaming is my kink"
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2021-06-30 11:41:13	[jamez]	b0rf: I persinally thing stopping to thing about what you say and doing it in a nicer way is a good way to grow as a person.  There's no reason to insult an entire group of people to get your point across, unless what your saying has no merrit and insulting people just makes you feel good about yourself.
2021-06-30 11:41:30	[jamez]	s/thing/think/
2021-06-30 11:42:05	brejela	[jamez]: What he's saying has no merit and insulting people just makes him feel good about himself.
2021-06-30 11:42:12	<--	Pickchea (~private@user/pickchea) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-06-30 11:43:22	[jamez]	brejela: Than I guess it's time to see a counselor and dive deep into what makes his self esteem so low.
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2021-06-30 11:43:50	[jamez]	or join facebook where that sort of thing is okay.
2021-06-30 11:44:10	japh	let's listen to Birgit Friggebo: "Let's all sing 'We Shall Overcome'".
2021-06-30 11:44:32	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-30 11:44:59	[jamez]	japh: Trust me. You do NOT want to hear me sing. :D
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2021-06-30 11:54:51	ZenixOwler	anyone here is using neofetch ? i am not so sure if its config file contains any customizable line where i can personally try to show up the info of my tun0 interface whenever i pop up a terminal, if someone knows pls help
2021-06-30 11:55:08	ZenixOwler	and in case that i am not establishing any openvpn connection, that line won't show
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2021-06-30 12:02:40	[twisti]	i have a question that i suspect is about *sh variable expansion. i have a variable like VAR=a b c, and a command like `foo $VAR`. my understanding is that what this does is execute foo, and provide foo with a single parameter containing 'a b c'. but i instead want to provide it as 3 separate parameters. is there a way to split it up like that ?
2021-06-30 12:03:26	tfe	you can try something like $("command $VARIABLE")
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2021-06-30 12:04:41	uwharrie	ZenixOwler: seems sufficient to add a line like `prin "$(ip address show dev tun0)"`
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2021-06-30 12:05:01	ZenixOwler	is that legal in neofetch ?
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2021-06-30 12:05:09	ZenixOwler	i mean i know i can do that directly inside my bashrc
2021-06-30 12:05:14	ZenixOwler	but it would kinda mess stuffs up a bit
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2021-06-30 12:05:57	uwharrie	it's just a big shell script and that matches its examples: https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/wiki/Customizing-Info#adding-custom-info
2021-06-30 12:05:58	koala_man	[twisti]: are you running zsh?
2021-06-30 12:06:10	[twisti]	bash and sh
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2021-06-30 12:06:33	koala_man	`foo $VAR` will split on $IFS which by default includes space, so it'll work like you describe unless you've modified something
2021-06-30 12:07:01	[twisti]	damn. im debugging, and i figured that was the problem :|
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2021-06-30 12:10:51	ZenixOwler	uwharrie: well, still nto really in the table of netofetch, it kinda scoops to the beginning of the terminal
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2021-06-30 12:12:10	uwharrie	could also try `info 'tun0' "$(ip address show dev tun0)"`
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2021-06-30 12:13:03	uwharrie	or even `info 'tun0' "$(ip -oneline address show dev tun0)"`
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2021-06-30 12:15:00	ZenixOwler	uwharrie: do i put that directly into the print_info() ?
2021-06-30 12:16:16	uwharrie	according to the docs, yes
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2021-06-30 12:18:47	uwharrie	hmm, but doesn't seem to do anything
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2021-06-30 12:22:27	ZenixOwler	yea, weird
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2021-06-30 12:25:12	curdlesnoot	reading the documentation, info obviously isn't correct. try prin instead.
2021-06-30 12:25:16	uwharrie	oh, looks like it's not using its config file at all
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2021-06-30 12:26:36	uwharrie	yeah, info is a function that calls other functions. the second arg is the postfix for a function named get_...
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2021-06-30 12:35:52	Dr_Coke	peetaur I finally fixed everything
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2021-06-30 12:40:45	lacroix	[twisti], I suggest to use VAR="a b c" and to later on better use "$VAR" otherwise you will have word splitting
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2021-06-30 12:41:25	lacroix	[twisti]: since you want word splitting $VAR is correct, but is potentially risky since glob expansion will also be done.
2021-06-30 12:41:36	lacroix	$ var="a b c" ; args $var
2021-06-30 12:41:47	lacroix	argc=2 argv=( <a> <b> <c> )
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2021-06-30 12:43:54	lacroix	no quotes means spliting takes place providing the program,
2021-06-30 12:44:04	lacroix	foo in your example, args in mine, with three arguments.
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2021-06-30 12:46:40	curdlesnoot	[twisti]: if you're writing for bash - or indeed, any shell that supports arrays - and wish to stash arguments in variables, use them. for example, args=('foo bar' baz); foo "${args[@]}". in this case, exactly two arguments will be conveyed, correctly.
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2021-06-30 12:47:34	curdlesnoot	if you're writing for sh, it gets trickier. there are still some ways to avoid word-splitting a scalar variable, which is risky for the reasons lacroix mentions. but then, some more context would be useful.
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2021-06-30 12:48:53	ice9	when I try to build ofono i get: make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'ell/util.c', needed by 'ell/util.lo'.  Stop; any idea?
2021-06-30 12:48:58	curdlesnoot	in any case, the fact that you didn't double quote the expansion in your initial example means that wort splitting occurs and, no, foo won't be given one argument.
2021-06-30 12:49:02	curdlesnoot	word*
2021-06-30 12:49:42	curdlesnoot	[twisti]: tl;dr - if you're not writing sh code, use arrays
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2021-06-30 12:50:42	msiism	Or use rc. Its quoting rules are a no-brainer.
2021-06-30 12:50:58	 *	msiism tries to actually remember those rules now.
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2021-06-30 12:51:55	curdlesnoot	well, all variables in rc shell are arrays - or lists - I think, so it still applies.
2021-06-30 12:52:08	curdlesnoot	but yes, it's less of a headache as concerns quoting too.
2021-06-30 12:52:41	msiism	Sure. Lists all the way, ecept for some exceptional exceptions that I can't remember right now.
2021-06-30 12:52:48	curdlesnoot	nevertheless, the two concerns are distinct.
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2021-06-30 12:52:57	msiism	s/ecept/except
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2021-06-30 13:02:36	lacroix	Personally, I think arrays are useful, but less portable.  so you have to pick/choose.
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2021-06-30 13:12:40	pyeverything	(08:56:58 PM) mlu: pyeverything: diff -rc -> sorry I felt unwell last night -- how do I pass the two directories?
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2021-06-30 13:15:36	msiism	pyeverything: As operands, I guess.
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2021-06-30 13:15:56	msiism	Though `-c` takes an argument.
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2021-06-30 13:17:17	msiism	Oh, that's optional.
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2021-06-30 13:18:28	msiism	The manual page doesn't really make clear it's optional, though.
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2021-06-30 13:19:17	pyeverything	msiism: you mean $ diff -rc dir1 dir2 ?
2021-06-30 13:19:26	msiism	Yes.
2021-06-30 13:19:36	pyeverything	msiism: thanks
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2021-06-30 13:35:30	jiffe	is there a way to redirect stdout to file and stderr to both file and shell output?
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2021-06-30 13:39:12	neshpion	`commands 2>&1 1>stdout.txt | tee stderr.txt`
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2021-06-30 13:50:57	pyeverything	hey  I am copying a token from github but cannot paste it in my remote machine (centos) my local is ubuntu. Any idea why the paste doesn't work?
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2021-06-30 13:52:01	jiffe	neshpion: I get output in stdout.txt but nothing in stderr.txt or on console
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2021-06-30 13:52:20	neshpion	is there any errors?
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2021-06-30 13:52:43	neshpion	i mean of course there won't be anything in stderr.txt or on console if the commands didn't issue any errors
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2021-06-30 13:54:53	jiffe	yeah nevermind the way I was trying to write to stderr ended up going to stdout
2021-06-30 13:54:58	jiffe	seems to work, thanks
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2021-06-30 13:56:17	lacroix	the changed buffering might be surprising. :)
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2021-06-30 13:57:31	lacroix	i mean that stderr is usually unbuffered but redirecting to a pipe generally causes it to become block buffered, and stdout is usually line buffered but directed to a file it becomes block buffered.  nothing standard can be done about it unless the program has a way to tell it to force the buffering mode for its fd's.
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2021-06-30 13:58:01	lacroix	some programs write directly to /dev/tty, bypassing the existing fd's.  the way to catch that output is to run it via a pty, though no standard program exists to do that there are 3rd party programs like unbuffer (part of expect).
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2021-06-30 13:58:31	koala_man	assuming the stream is "usually" a tty
2021-06-30 13:59:46	Pickchea	Hey, I was wondering what happens under the hood if I shut down my machine with `systemctl poweroff`. I tried to look it up but whatever I find is either and explanation of how to shut down a Linux machine or something waaay too detailed for me. Specifically, I wonder how userspace programmes are dealt with. Are they all just killed with SIGKILL? Or do they get any chance to exit gracefully?
2021-06-30 13:59:59	 *	msiism pushes a TTY down mainstream.
2021-06-30 14:00:17	neshpion	i would be surprised if they received SIGKILL
2021-06-30 14:00:23	neshpion	i'd assume SIGTERM
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2021-06-30 14:00:46	JohnDoe2	XIO:  fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0" after 650705 requests (650704 known processed) with 0 events remaining.---- this crashed almost 100% of the running software I had, especially electron apps and browsers.
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2021-06-30 14:01:39	JohnDoe2	does that mean that I exhausted the number possible open files?
2021-06-30 14:01:51	JohnDoe2	and that somehow caused X to crash?
2021-06-30 14:01:57	koala_man	Pickchea: services will be shut down gracefully, and remaining processes will be TERM'd and then KILL'd
2021-06-30 14:02:13	lacroix	of course redirecting tee's stdout to stderr likely doesn't really matter.
2021-06-30 14:02:14	lacroix	an fd connected to an interactive device (tty's are) results in stdout being line buffered and stderr being unbuffered -- by default, a program can change it if it likes.
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2021-06-30 14:03:08	lacroix	so errors appear immediately and normal output is buffered a little -- buffering helps improve performance since there isn't a transition to the o/s for every piece of output.
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2021-06-30 14:04:06	lacroix	fully buffered though collects data until a (not too large, but not too small either) buffer is filled, at which point the entire buffer is transferred to the o/s.
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2021-06-30 14:04:45	Pickchea	koala_man, ah, I thought so! But I also observe that `systemctl poweroff` is really quick even if I have many running processes left. I suppose it's in the programme's (or developer's) best interest to gracefully terminate as quickly as possible after receiving a SIGTERM because systemctl (or Linux, IDK) is pretty impatient and does not mess around.
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2021-06-30 14:04:51	lacroix	it improves performance even more than line buffered, but it means that errors might not be seen immediately nor lines of normal output.
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2021-06-30 14:08:31	pine	so I'm trying to install libtls arch linux but it's not going too hot for me. I did pacman -S libressl, but doing cc -ltls fails and there's no tls.h in /usr/include/, what should I try next?
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2021-06-30 14:09:21	pine	specifically, that failure on `cc -ltls` is `/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltls`, which makes sense as I don't have it in /usr/include
2021-06-30 14:09:24	koala_man	Pickchea: by default, a process will die immediately upon receiving SIGTERM. programmers only install a handler if they need to exit more gracefully
2021-06-30 14:10:00	lacroix	1>file means that stdout isn't connected to a tty, it's connected to a file.  2>&1 | ... means that stderr isn't connected to a tty either, it is connected to a pipe and a pipe isn't considered interactive even if the other end of the pipe writes to a tty.
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2021-06-30 14:14:07	uwharrie	pine: you'll need to tell ld where to look for the lib via the -L flag
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2021-06-30 14:14:57	uwharrie	pine: as well as telling cpp where to find the .h file via the -I flag
2021-06-30 14:15:04	lacroix	I guess I better go cook dinner now
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2021-06-30 14:16:21	msiism	Dinner > Linux.
2021-06-30 14:16:30	<--	nekobyte (~nekobyte@user/nekobit) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-30 14:16:46	msiism	Errr… Dinner -gt Linux
2021-06-30 14:16:48	lacroix	msiism...not always :)
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2021-06-30 14:17:01	pine	uwharrie: thanks for the help, I just got the lib installed via libretls (I guess LibreSSL wasn't working for me), it's working now!
2021-06-30 14:17:21	msiism	lacroix: So, you would skip dinner for Linux?
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2021-06-30 14:18:03	lacroix	damn right I would :) depending on what I'm doing of course
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2021-06-30 14:18:42	neshpion	msiism: (( $Dinner > $Linux ))
2021-06-30 14:19:02	msiism	I see. I tend to prefer meals to IT things these days.
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2021-06-30 14:20:43	onelegend	dinner
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2021-06-30 14:30:24	mymind	is this channel active? all I see are join/part/quits
2021-06-30 14:30:31	akik	mymind: yes
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2021-06-30 14:30:35	mymind	cool
2021-06-30 14:30:39	firepup	yes it is
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2021-06-30 14:31:13	lacroix	I bet we can have as much as ten persons say yes
2021-06-30 14:31:19	lacroix	yes
2021-06-30 14:31:23	akik	oui
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2021-06-30 14:31:55	neshpion	i almost don't see any join/part/quits at all :D
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2021-06-30 14:31:56	 *	lacroix hides
2021-06-30 14:32:11	lacroix	there, neshpion, that's 3.
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2021-06-30 14:32:25	mymind	I'm using lftp to connect to a server, and I was wondering if it's possible to use "mirror -v --use-pget-n=40" but only show the list of files to download without downlaoding them
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2021-06-30 14:32:34	mymind	like using rsync --dryrun
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2021-06-30 14:34:27	mymind	neshpion: I've enabled a filter to hide them all now since I know the channel is active and aI'm logged in correctly
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2021-06-30 14:37:49	lacroix	mymind: man page says it has --just-print or --dryrun
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2021-06-30 14:48:08	[jamez]	mymind: There are a LOT of join/part/quits.  Luckily weechat has a filter for that :D If you happen to be using weechat, https://weechat.org/files/doc/devel/weechat_faq.en.html#filter_irc_join_part_quit
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2021-06-30 14:48:31	DPA	Today, I had the ssl certificate expire on my postfix mail server, so I had to restart it. Which is odd, I didn't have to do this in years, and the LE certs expire after 2 months or so. I was sure they were being picked up automatically / immediately in the past...
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2021-06-30 14:49:21	DPA	Now I have a cronjob restarting it once per week, just in case.
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2021-06-30 14:54:03	[jamez]	DPA: I have the same issue with postfix in a docker container.  I have a cronjob that runs once a month to refresh the LE cert, if needed, and restart postfix.
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2021-06-30 14:54:59	TJ-	DPA: are you using certbot?
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2021-06-30 15:04:07	DPA	No, I don't trust it, it does too much. I have made my own, simpler & more modular script: https://github.com/Daniel-Abrecht/DPA-ACME2
2021-06-30 15:04:07	DPA	I run it in a different libvirt-lxc container, one for one of my dns servers.
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2021-06-30 15:11:51	 *	lacroix uses simply acme.sh and acme-tiny
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2021-06-30 15:39:45	dag	is this good enough for hd/ssd refurbishment? `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=4M status=progress` ?
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2021-06-30 15:40:59	rob`	I'd maybe /dev/urandom instead
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2021-06-30 15:41:19	rob`	zero is recoverable by [mumble] something about off-track magnetic domains
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2021-06-30 15:42:26	rob`	I think hdparm has a secure erase command, though
2021-06-30 15:42:36	rob`	that might be faster since no data has to be piped over SATA
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2021-06-30 15:42:57	rob`	https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
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2021-06-30 15:45:08	echelon	hi
2021-06-30 15:45:19	curdlesnoot	dag: definitely don't use dd for ssds. use secure erase. after doing so, you can issue "sync", after which "od -a < /dev/sdb" should show a nice stream of "nul" characters.
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2021-06-30 15:45:36	echelon	how do i crash a host, i'm trying to run a fork bomb and it seems to remain responsive, i just can't create new forks
2021-06-30 15:45:44	echelon	this is basically for a load test
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2021-06-30 15:46:47	firepup	just figure how to create a mem leak?
2021-06-30 15:47:05	mymind	lacroix: thanks
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2021-06-30 15:47:43	mymind	[jamez]: yeah I'm using weechat :) and I've enabled the filter for hiding them, it even has a bind key Alt+-
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2021-06-30 15:48:30	mymind	does it say what irc client I'm using?
2021-06-30 15:48:58	mymind	weechat is popular but it was a very accurate guess lol
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2021-06-30 15:49:58	curdlesnoot	dag: to elaborate, the behaviour of secure erase is generally well defined for ssds. they have an internal key by which data is decoded, and a secure erase is simply a case of writing a new key, invaliding the old data after which it appears to have been determinstically zeroed. for hdds, the behaviour of ata secure erase can vary but I would consider dd to be ok, short of physical destruction.
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2021-06-30 15:51:31	[jamez]	mymind: I didn't look at your whois or anything, I just got annoyed with all the join/parts myself and looked up how to hide them about 10 minutes before you said anything :D I knew weechat was pretty popular here so I took a stab at it.
2021-06-30 15:52:32	[jamez]	Been a long time since I used IRC.  I think the last time I was on BitchX was still being actively developed :)
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2021-06-30 16:10:13	Helmholtz1	ughhh..feh is so annoying...How can I set a window size and simply best-fit the image to the size?
2021-06-30 16:10:27	Helmholtz1	https://linux.die.net/man/1/feh
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2021-06-30 16:16:51	Kyv	Helmholtz1: a combination of --geometry and --scale-down
2021-06-30 16:17:14	Kyv	though I might suggest sxiv.
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2021-06-30 16:19:50	Helmholtz1	damn ubuntu damn """stable""" package mangers
2021-06-30 16:20:19	Helmholtz1	I'm using --geometry and --scale-down...still doesn't work...I'm 90% sure this is a bug due to old feh
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2021-06-30 16:20:40	Kyv	oh...
2021-06-30 16:20:50	Kyv	Yeah they generally dont give a toss about stuff like that.
2021-06-30 16:21:21	Kyv	I remember using the same version of cmus the entire time I was using Mint.
2021-06-30 16:21:24	 *	themachine is partial to viewnior
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2021-06-30 16:22:00	Kyv	themachine: what kind of special powers does that one have?
2021-06-30 16:22:13	themachine	uh, well it's an image viewer
2021-06-30 16:22:20	Kyv	unbelievable
2021-06-30 16:22:25	themachine	it's default behavior is what you desire
2021-06-30 16:22:26	Helmholtz1	Fun fact: did you know jq in latest ubuntu LTS is **slower** than 18.04 or 16.04 ?
2021-06-30 16:22:44	Helmholtz1	debian should have this problem also
2021-06-30 16:22:52	themachine	Not really sure what else to say about it
2021-06-30 16:23:32	themachine	doesn't have many dependencies I believe
2021-06-30 16:24:01	Kyv	And I bet their mpd package is still so old and broken it is not even supported by the devs anymore.
2021-06-30 16:24:34	Kyv	If I am to expand on audio playing a bit
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2021-06-30 16:24:48	Helmholtz1	Kyv, really what's the point?
2021-06-30 16:24:57	Helmholtz1	of ubuntu
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2021-06-30 16:24:59	firepup	idk
2021-06-30 16:25:04	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-30 16:25:06	Helmholtz1	or debian
2021-06-30 16:25:07	firepup	i believe the original point was to be easy on beginners
2021-06-30 16:25:12	Kyv	I cant get into the weeds on that
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2021-06-30 16:25:52	Helmholtz1	You people should move into nix ...then when 50% of devs jump ship to nix or nix-derivative, I'll jump ship
2021-06-30 16:25:58	Kyv	though I always maintain that none of this is very easy for beginners in my view
2021-06-30 16:26:34	 *	themachine likes debian
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2021-06-30 16:26:53	firepup	i still use a debian based distro and i dont intend to move
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2021-06-30 16:27:10	Helmholtz1	themachine, the *stable* is a lie. s/stable/old-enough-that-you-get-used-to-the-bugs
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2021-06-30 16:27:39	themachine	Which bugs am I used to?
2021-06-30 16:27:58	themachine	(we'll ignore my unstable installs)
2021-06-30 16:28:17	Kyv	"
2021-06-30 16:28:17	Kyv	Note
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2021-06-30 16:28:22	Kyv	Debian and Ubuntu are infamous for shipping heavily outdated software. The MPD version in their respective stable releases are usually too old to be supported by this project. Ironically, the MPD version in Debian “unstable” is more stable than the version in Debian “stable”.
2021-06-30 16:28:25	<--	Skyz (~Skyz@user/skyz) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-06-30 16:28:29	Kyv	from the mpd documentation
2021-06-30 16:28:43	<--	shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) has quit (Quit: shibboleth)
2021-06-30 16:28:55	themachine	Stable doesn't mean bug free
2021-06-30 16:29:02	themachine	Stable means stability regarding change
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2021-06-30 16:29:26	themachine	If a piece of software is in stable and it has a bug, yes it probably won't get fixed until the next release or until you update it via backports
2021-06-30 16:29:30	<--	w00dsman (~w00dsman@198.89.64.253) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-30 16:29:41	themachine	Though I suspect I'm not telling you anything you are already aware of
2021-06-30 16:29:42	HumbleGuy	suckless terminal cant erase text forward by defaul with the delete key, how do i implement it?
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2021-06-30 16:29:58	c705	HumbleGuy: ask the developer
2021-06-30 16:30:01	themachine	s/are/aren't/
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2021-06-30 16:30:12	themachine	HumbleGuy: write a patch and then patch it
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2021-06-30 16:30:17	Kyv	That would be in the FAQ and actually has a good answer.
2021-06-30 16:30:22	Kyv	And it does have a patch.
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2021-06-30 16:30:32	HumbleGuy	oh didnt look at it
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2021-06-30 16:30:58	firepup	interestingly my debian-based distro doesnt have systemd
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2021-06-30 16:32:17	Skaface	heh i just discovered after many years that xterm is actually pretty nice
2021-06-30 16:32:51	c705	it's ncie that it does what it's supposed to do, and doesn't implement features nobody wants and nobody asked for
2021-06-30 16:33:06	Kyv	It doesn't?
2021-06-30 16:33:13	Skaface	it has alot of features hidden away in the config
2021-06-30 16:33:25	Kyv	It has a lot of baggage and always will.
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2021-06-30 16:36:13	mcint	how do i find hard drive space reservations?  df reports 52/55 gb used, but 100% usage.
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2021-06-30 16:38:39	curdlesnoot	mcint: ext4 reserves space by default. could be that.
2021-06-30 16:38:45	b0b	mcint: on an ext* fs: tune2fs -l
2021-06-30 16:39:43	velix	b00b
2021-06-30 16:39:54	b0b	close
2021-06-30 16:40:00	mcint	^ good call, looks suspiciously close to the 5% https://askubuntu.com/questions/249387
2021-06-30 16:40:08	mcint	curdlesnoot: b0b thank you both!!
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2021-06-30 16:40:22	b0b	sure
2021-06-30 16:40:24	curdlesnoot	fortunately, it can be changed on-the-fly.
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2021-06-30 16:40:58	curdlesnoot	or you could free up some space, of course.
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2021-06-30 16:41:49	b0b	dont's change it for something like /. on /home or any pure data partition, it would probably be okay
2021-06-30 16:42:25	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::2) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 16:42:57	HumbleGuy	i wanted dmenu to show .desktop files, so i installed this https://github.com/enkore/j4-dmenu-desktop but still .desktop files doesnt show
2021-06-30 16:43:45	HumbleGuy	it says read 107 .desktop files but it doesnt show at search
2021-06-30 16:43:49	HumbleGuy	any ideas?
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2021-06-30 16:47:34	lacroix	mcint, also look for ghost files in /proc/*/fd/
2021-06-30 16:48:09	Kyv	HumbleGuy: Did you change your dwm keybinding for dmenu to call this thing?
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2021-06-30 16:48:24	Kyv	or run the script at the bottom?
2021-06-30 16:48:40	lacroix	mcint: file /proc/*/fd/* | grep deleted
2021-06-30 16:48:44	HumbleGuy	yes, i put it for meta+shift+p
2021-06-30 16:48:50	HumbleGuy	it opens two different dmenus
2021-06-30 16:48:59	HumbleGuy	but cant see .desktop files
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2021-06-30 16:49:45	HumbleGuy	Kyv, is this command good? SHCMD("j4-dmenu-desktop --dmenu=dmenu_run  --term='st'")
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2021-06-30 16:50:52	Kyv	I mean, its written fine
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2021-06-30 16:51:07	lacroix	Or you have a df that includes the 'reserved for root' slack, and can actually go to 105% used
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2021-06-30 16:51:31	Kyv	I would have to look what this is supposed to do, I'm entirely unfamiliar with it.
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2021-06-30 16:51:41	Kyv	dmenu can already launch applications
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2021-06-30 16:52:47	webchat86	I cant get Blania etcher, ISO flashing tool, to open on my Debian 10 LXDE system\
2021-06-30 16:53:01	-->	Ballerburg9005 (~ICH@dslb-002-207-126-234.002.207.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 16:53:07	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i wanted to launch whatsapp desktop application but it doesnt show there. I have to open file manager and then open it
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2021-06-30 16:55:16	firepup	webchat86 do you have some sort of error?
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2021-06-30 16:56:39	Arsen	can I allow setgid(x) to work for supplementary groups
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2021-06-30 16:57:11	Kyv	HumbleGuy: did you install this from repository or build it?
2021-06-30 16:57:22	HumbleGuy	from repository
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2021-06-30 16:58:34	HumbleGuy	and added .desktop file myself
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2021-06-30 16:59:16	HumbleGuy	sure i could add /opt/whatsapp to PATh but i don't think its a good idea
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2021-06-30 17:00:26	octav1a	I have a scratch disk just used for throwaway cache n stuff. Is it possible to disable things like timestamps / permission tracking as a mount option for ext4 or any other filesystem? (to improve performance )
2021-06-30 17:00:35	-->	sed (~sed@pool-100-7-38-116.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 17:04:26	twiclo	Anyone here running a mobile distro for their daily driver?
2021-06-30 17:05:14	webchat86	Mobile distro?
2021-06-30 17:05:21	webchat86	Like a Lightweight distro or a Live USB?
2021-06-30 17:05:35	-->	mikail (~mikail@90.212.77.3) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 17:05:45	webchat86	Or like Linux OS on a phone?
2021-06-30 17:06:07	<--	tesseract (~tesseract@user/tesseract) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-30 17:06:25	Ringtailed-Fox	twiclo, please specifiy what you mean :)
2021-06-30 17:06:28	Ringtailed-Fox	*specify
2021-06-30 17:06:41	Kyv	HumbleGuy: does it work to copy that one to ~/.local/share/applications?
2021-06-30 17:06:58	-->	aklis (~aklis@user/aklis) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 17:07:28	twiclo	Phone
2021-06-30 17:07:34	<--	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::2) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-30 17:07:54	webchat86	Phone, I reccoemnd Calyx or Graphene OS
2021-06-30 17:07:58	<--	Judabuda (~ok@user/judabuda) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-30 17:08:02	twiclo	Like ubuntu touch or postmarket os
2021-06-30 17:08:04	webchat86	or a simiar, open source Secureity focused os
2021-06-30 17:08:08	<--	dariqq[m] (~dariqqmat@2001:470:69fc:105::3ff5) has quit (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-06-30 17:08:13	webchat86	I've only used Graphene OS
2021-06-30 17:08:21	twiclo	Well I've never heard of Calyx. From what I've read it looks like ubports is the best/most stable right now
2021-06-30 17:08:26	<--	sed (~sed@pool-100-7-38-116.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-30 17:08:35	twiclo	How stable is it?
2021-06-30 17:08:44	webchat86	I havent used it
2021-06-30 17:08:55	HumbleGuy	Kyv, no, it still doesnt show
2021-06-30 17:09:04	twiclo	I've been growing tired of the weird quirks of lineageos and am looking to switch to (hopefully) a more stable linux OS
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2021-06-30 17:09:19	twiclo	What phone are you using for graphene webchat86?
2021-06-30 17:09:32	webchat86	Google Pixel 4A/5
2021-06-30 17:09:33	webchat86	Unlocked
2021-06-30 17:09:34	-->	hgg (~hgg@5.79.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 17:09:42	webchat86	New Pixel 5 unlocked is best
2021-06-30 17:09:42	-->	niksen (~tnedi@user/xyzone) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 17:09:45	webchat86	Better screen
2021-06-30 17:09:49	webchat86	Stronger Gorilla glass
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2021-06-30 17:10:41	Ckat	I've used up all my luck for the year I think, just printed two pages without issues after not using the printer for ages
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2021-06-30 17:12:15	VMGuy23	LXPanel on Void, will not maximize
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2021-06-30 17:13:35	Kyv	On Void this week huh?
2021-06-30 17:13:54	VMGuy23	yeah
2021-06-30 17:14:02	VMGuy23	lighter than arch
2021-06-30 17:14:18	azizLIGHT	how come samba needs its own set of credentials
2021-06-30 17:14:25	azizLIGHT	why doesnt it use the system credentials
2021-06-30 17:14:33	<--	niksen (~tnedi@user/xyzone) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-06-30 17:14:57	Scarecr0w	 /disconnect
2021-06-30 17:15:01	Scarecr0w	Sorry
2021-06-30 17:15:05	azizLIGHT	bye Scarecr0w
2021-06-30 17:15:07	neshpion	doesn't everything need its own credentials?
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2021-06-30 17:15:42	VMGuy23	hold up
2021-06-30 17:15:45	VMGuy23	trying lxqt
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2021-06-30 17:16:15	azizLIGHT	thats intended? so a linux user with account on computer, also needs another samba account with another thing to remember?
2021-06-30 17:16:20	azizLIGHT	to access shares
2021-06-30 17:17:00	Kyv	HumbleGuy: from what I've seen looking around, I don't know. You could give this a once-over to see if there's something that may be relevant: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/desktop_entries
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2021-06-30 17:17:47	HumbleGuy	Kyv, ok i'll look
2021-06-30 17:17:49	HumbleGuy	thanks anyways
2021-06-30 17:18:04	jim	azizLIGHT, yes, samba is a completely different authentication system than the /etc/passwd and shadow system used by most linux installations
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2021-06-30 17:19:03	azizLIGHT	how would you centrally manage auth for multiple linuxes and users on those linuxes, as well as their samba credentials
2021-06-30 17:19:09	-->	pycode (~pycode@2001:b07:5d28:551:19d6:61de:c2ca:8124) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 17:19:20	jim	azizLIGHT, howbout online medical accounts? want your linux (or your samba) to have the same password? and what about online banking?
2021-06-30 17:19:21	akik	azizLIGHT: ldap directory
2021-06-30 17:19:27	mikail	recommendations for a lightweight email server?
2021-06-30 17:19:51	-->	VMGuy23 (~VMGuy23@user/vmguy23) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 17:20:05	VMGuy23	What WM should I use with LXqt
2021-06-30 17:20:19	azizLIGHT	jim: well you could go the other direction with that and say why doesnt each file have its own auth permissions down to username/password level instead of just chmod permissions
2021-06-30 17:20:24	jim	mikail, mail servers (as a workload) is not lightweight :)
2021-06-30 17:21:01	mikail	jim, I just need to set a email server running on a box so that app can fire off emails into the ether
2021-06-30 17:21:06	azizLIGHT	akik: isnt that a windows only thing?
2021-06-30 17:21:09	mikail	zero experience with them
2021-06-30 17:21:10	<--	expix (~1@amontpellier-652-1-22-102.w90-57.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #linux
2021-06-30 17:21:15	akik	azizLIGHT: no
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2021-06-30 17:22:52	uwharrie	mikail: if all you need to do is send, check out msmtp and ssmtp
2021-06-30 17:23:03	akik	openldap is the grand old daddy and that project started in 1998
2021-06-30 17:23:12	mikail	uwharrie, thanks :+1
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2021-06-30 17:24:21	uwharrie	hmm, looks like ssmtp was abandoned, so maybe stick to msmtp
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2021-06-30 17:24:51	azizLIGHT	akik: is that whats used nowadays? or something else
2021-06-30 17:24:54	Kyv	VMGuy23-: do you want something with a guarantee or just a wm name?
2021-06-30 17:25:02	Kyv	to screw with
2021-06-30 17:25:19	akik	azizLIGHT: i use 389 directory server
2021-06-30 17:25:20	mikail	yeah I just took a look, seems exactly what I need
2021-06-30 17:25:28	Kyv	In case of the latter, 2bwm. :|
2021-06-30 17:26:35	azizLIGHT	akik: i see, thanks. i will try that too
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2021-06-30 17:27:05	lacroix	Arsen, iirc setgid and setegid only work for root, or towards the saved gid
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2021-06-30 17:28:19	lacroix	Apologies, let me rephrase that :) If I recall correctly, setgid and setegid only work for root, or towards the saved gid.
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2021-06-30 17:29:04	webchat33	Hello
2021-06-30 17:29:21	azizLIGHT	world
2021-06-30 17:29:51	webchat33	Graphics Initilazation Failed, failed to load Qfx module or similar error in seabios
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2021-06-30 17:30:31	lacroix	Arsen, simply, if it were allowed, there are a couple of undesirable side-effects where a process can manipulate things beyond what should be allowed'
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2021-06-30 17:32:38	NthDegree	lacroix, do you happen to track kernel contributions?
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2021-06-30 17:33:04	NthDegree	lacroix, I'm wondering if this means I can run AppArmor and SELinux at the same time now: https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/5/13/824
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2021-06-30 17:34:08	Arsen	lacroix: not from the FS perspective, because sup groups can be chowned to and such, I doubt there would be any side effects there
2021-06-30 17:34:15	Arsen	it would change the behavior of access, though, I think
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2021-06-30 17:38:13	lacroix	Arsen: setgid() to aux groups can open the way for too many tricks
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2021-06-30 17:38:49	lacroix	and if a process could set g+s on something other than its own group, that would bypass the second protection;
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2021-06-30 17:39:30	Arsen	it can, though
2021-06-30 17:39:39	lacroix	I'm not refering to setgid on files.
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2021-06-30 17:40:48	lacroix	NthDegree: hello :) running apparmor _and_ SELinux? why would you want to do that to yourself?
2021-06-30 17:40:49	Arsen	`x=$(id --groups | awk '{ print $2 }'); cp /bin/id .; chown $(id -u):$x id; chmod g+s id; ./id"
2021-06-30 17:41:07	Arsen	you'll notice the egid is set, making any "protections" here invalid
2021-06-30 17:41:29	Arsen	(this assumes GNU userspace)
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2021-06-30 17:41:42	NthDegree	lacroix, SELinux has excellent per-user confinement, a feature that AppArmor lacks. While, on the desktop, SELinux blows goats because it's infeasible to constantly rewrite policies to cater for ever-expanding granularity
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2021-06-30 17:42:24	rascul	maybe one day i'll find a problem that selinux or apparmor solves for me
2021-06-30 17:42:40	NthDegree	Like, take user_home_t (or w/e it's called)
2021-06-30 17:43:07	NthDegree	if I want to allow Firefox to write to Downloads but nowhere else, I now need to relabel Downloads to say user_home_downloads_t
2021-06-30 17:43:15	Arsen	I certainly want to wrap all my internet-exposed services in it, to limit what directories etc they can access, via apparmor or via selinux
2021-06-30 17:43:26	-->	bouncy (~ben@user/benoit) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 17:43:26	NthDegree	but now I need to edit the policy of every other app which wants to write to Downloads to cater for the new label
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2021-06-30 17:44:02	NthDegree	this leads to crap situations where SELinux generalises labels to make things more feasible to maintain, meaning it's less granular in practice
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2021-06-30 17:44:31	NthDegree	when it comes to server daemons which all have unique private locations, SELinux rocks
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2021-06-30 17:44:45	webchat33	Qubues Whonix
2021-06-30 17:44:48	webchat33	Tails
2021-06-30 17:44:50	webchat33	Tor Router
2021-06-30 17:44:50	webchat33	PGP
2021-06-30 17:44:54	webchat33	WireGuard VPN
2021-06-30 17:44:54	NthDegree	and when it comes to confining users rather than just processes, it's one of the only good options
2021-06-30 17:44:55	webchat33	OBFS4 Tor
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2021-06-30 17:45:13	blackgatonegro	Eh read the small print
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2021-06-30 17:45:27	blackgatonegro	A lot of VPMs sell your data
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2021-06-30 17:45:47	Arsen	you do realize vpns aren't only used for commercial catch-all vpns right
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2021-06-30 17:45:52	rascul	VPMs are the worst
2021-06-30 17:46:08	Arsen	eg I'm using a VPN to connecto to my home network, I'm pretty sure it's not capitalizing off the data I'm sending to myself
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2021-06-30 17:47:01	sumthing1980	is there a way to use a hdd and ssd to create a drive with ssd caching?
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2021-06-30 17:47:24	sumthing1980	in linux
2021-06-30 17:47:27	sumthing1980	with softwre
2021-06-30 17:47:31	c705	yes
2021-06-30 17:47:44	rascul	sumthing1980 bcache
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2021-06-30 17:47:50	rascul	(not bcachefs)
2021-06-30 17:48:09	blackgatonegro	What we use instead of pastebin?
2021-06-30 17:48:15	rascul	/topic
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2021-06-30 17:48:46	sumthing1980	ok thanks
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2021-06-30 17:49:01	felco	that is nice, didn't knew bcache
2021-06-30 17:49:50	Kyv	booboo healed
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2021-06-30 17:55:47	sumthing1980	doesnt linux already do caching of harddrive writes, with ram?
2021-06-30 17:55:55	c705	yes, yes it does
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2021-06-30 17:57:55	HumbleGuy	i wanted to patch a new rule functionality to dwm, the patch says to add this to config.def.h http://dpaste.com/GSSEFEW2Y , now here comes the problem, in config.h i have another functionality added to rule: http://dpaste.com/7MD7VTR4A how do i know where to put the new functionality? between tags mask and iscentered or iscentered and isfloating?
2021-06-30 17:59:42	c705	once again, ask the developer
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2021-06-30 18:00:07	uwharrie	there are dwm and suckless channels on here
2021-06-30 18:00:15	HumbleGuy	c705, i dont think it will answer me
2021-06-30 18:00:20	HumbleGuy	they are very unresponsive
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2021-06-30 18:00:33	c705	did you bother waiting more than 2 minutes
2021-06-30 18:00:38	c705	might i also suggest email
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2021-06-30 18:01:11	firepup	there are mailing lists too
2021-06-30 18:01:21	Arsen	sumthing1980: that's why grepping linuxes codebase twice with 64GiB of ram is fast, but SSDs are naturally bigger
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2021-06-30 18:03:20	Kyv	theres like 10 people in #suckless
2021-06-30 18:03:26	Kyv	they're on OFTC
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2021-06-30 18:05:05	lacroix	Arsen, you mentioned the assumption you used, yes. if an unprivileged process is able in a way to change its effective GID to represent the same one as one of its supplementary GIDs, then it will be able to manipulate the group ownership of new files in unexpected ways
2021-06-30 18:05:34	Kyv	HumbleGuy: at the rate you're going, you'd be better off learning C rather than editing in cobbled bits of code that are going to be increasingly likely to break with no control.
2021-06-30 18:06:12	lacroix	you may find  prlimit(2) interesting to play with
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2021-06-30 18:06:46	Arsen	but it's clearly able to do that
2021-06-30 18:06:59	Arsen	so I don't understand why impede programs from doing that, too
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2021-06-30 18:07:16	Arsen	and honestly, the source code doesn't look like it's some prevention, it just looks like an oversight of a very rarely used case
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2021-06-30 18:12:46	lacroix	Arsen, yes, newgrp basically does the same thing too.
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2021-06-30 18:13:34	lacroix	(only on user database)
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2021-06-30 18:13:52	sumthing1980	I want a slow, silent and cool harddrive, does anyone have suggestions for this?
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2021-06-30 18:14:26	neshpion	i get quiet and cool, but why slow?
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2021-06-30 18:16:02	sumthing1980	meaning it doesnt have to be fast at all
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2021-06-30 18:17:46	rascul	does it have to be slow?
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2021-06-30 18:18:24	sumthing1980	not really
2021-06-30 18:18:37	sumthing1980	but fast makes them noisy and hot normally
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2021-06-30 18:18:53	lacroix	off to bed here.
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2021-06-30 18:19:01	lacroix	see you all :)
2021-06-30 18:19:05	sumthing1980	bye
2021-06-30 18:19:08	falk689	cooler and less noisy than a wd red or green?
2021-06-30 18:19:24	sumthing1980	wd purple seems very quiet
2021-06-30 18:19:29	sumthing1980	dont have red or green
2021-06-30 18:19:43	c705	reds shuld be quiet from the anti vibration
2021-06-30 18:19:53	c705	i believe purples also have the same anti vibration
2021-06-30 18:19:55	sumthing1980	I have gold and it sound a lot and vibrates alot and is hot af
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2021-06-30 18:20:16	HumbleGuy	that's it i am learning C
2021-06-30 18:20:19	c705	do you have 4 tightened screws?'
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2021-06-30 18:20:31	sumthing1980	you can try php
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2021-06-30 18:22:58	Kyv	HumbleGuy: Those are almost the default rules set, what is the question again?
2021-06-30 18:23:09	Kyv	In the patch it has you removing those.
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2021-06-30 18:23:59	HumbleGuy	Kyv, my question was if i have to add the new rule feature before or after iscentered feature
2021-06-30 18:24:11	HumbleGuy	but i already removed the patch with iscentered
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2021-06-30 18:24:55	falk689	sumthing1980 I have two wd reds powered 24/7 right behind me and they are pretty quiet (they say ~32db) while running around 30 celsius if that can help you.
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2021-06-30 18:25:17	sumthing1980	thanks do you use fans?
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2021-06-30 18:25:38	sumthing1980	falk689:
2021-06-30 18:25:42	falk689	they're really enclosed so there's a noctua fan blowing on everything in the case
2021-06-30 18:25:57	falk689	it's a rockpro64 nas with the stock metal case
2021-06-30 18:25:58	sumthing1980	ok how big are the drives?
2021-06-30 18:26:11	Gustavo6046	AAAA
2021-06-30 18:26:15	Gustavo6046	Compose doesn't have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esh_(letter)
2021-06-30 18:26:16	c705	just one fan? that's cute I have 6
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2021-06-30 18:26:55	Gustavo6046	c705 is popular among the fans
2021-06-30 18:26:57	falk689	6tb
2021-06-30 18:27:06	sumthing1980	ok
2021-06-30 18:27:13	Gustavo6046	:p
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2021-06-30 18:28:57	Gustavo6046	I appended LATIN SMALL LETTER ESH in the section with Long S.
2021-06-30 18:29:01	Gustavo6046	Do I restart fcitx now?
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2021-06-30 19:19:18	pyeverything	how should I fix this error in centos 7? dust: /usr/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.18' not found (required by dust)
2021-06-30 19:20:30	koala_man	reinstall or rebuild the program
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2021-06-30 19:24:08	jim	pyeverything, what's dust, and how did you get it?
2021-06-30 19:24:18	<--	Nimzowitsch (~nimzo@user/nimzowitsch) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-30 19:24:31	rascul	it comes from pixies
2021-06-30 19:24:46	tt	angeldust
2021-06-30 19:24:53	rascul	wrong kind of dust
2021-06-30 19:25:01	rascul	angels don't use linux
2021-06-30 19:25:16	tt	what do they use
2021-06-30 19:25:18	tt	templeOS?
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2021-06-30 19:25:25	rascul	so i'm told
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2021-06-30 19:25:47	rascul	there are apparently some new versions that haven't made it to the mortal world
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2021-06-30 19:39:12	akik	pyeverything: reading about it, centos 7 won't have glibc 2.18
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2021-06-30 19:40:25	akik	pyeverything: somebody shows here steps to compile glibc 2.18 into /opt/glibc-2.18 https://access.redhat.com/discussions/3244811
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2021-06-30 19:41:07	akik	pyeverything: or run a container which has the required version
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2021-06-30 19:43:13	 *	rascul puts akik into a container
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2021-06-30 19:43:18	akik	both methods have their ups and downs
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2021-06-30 19:43:45	akik	what's really cool with containers is that they can have whatever distro you need
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2021-06-30 19:44:31	rascul	or no distro
2021-06-30 19:44:51	akik	don't believe what they try to lie to you
2021-06-30 19:45:13	rascul	the bare minimum is just the application's executable and the libs it depends on
2021-06-30 19:45:34	Kyv	key kid ya wanna buy some containers?
2021-06-30 19:45:42	rascul	i have plenty already, thanks
2021-06-30 19:45:44	akik	go apps don't even need those democrats
2021-06-30 19:46:03	akik	one big binary that has all of it
2021-06-30 19:47:34	spyroboy	19:43:45   akik >> what's really cool with containers is that they can have whatever distro you need
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2021-06-30 19:47:36	spyroboy	er
2021-06-30 19:47:41	spyroboy	misclick
2021-06-30 19:47:47	akik	echoooooooooooooooo
2021-06-30 19:47:52	rascul	18:47 <spyroboy> 19:43:45   akik >> what's really cool with containers is that they can have whatever distro you need
2021-06-30 19:48:17	rascul	not a misclick
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2021-06-30 19:49:00	rascul	i just wanted to help spyroboy spread akik's message
2021-06-30 19:49:00	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-30 19:49:01	akik	it's 02:48 a.m. here
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2021-06-30 19:49:40	spyroboy	I think container technology is often abused tbh
2021-06-30 19:49:50	rascul	just run ubuntu in your container
2021-06-30 19:49:59	akik	i use fat containers
2021-06-30 19:50:08	spyroboy	the point of appreciation of a container isn't that you can select your distro. it's to package your applcation.
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2021-06-30 19:50:26	rascul	container is just a fancy chroot really
2021-06-30 19:50:37	rascul	lots of stuff to make it fancy though
2021-06-30 19:50:46	akik	if your application needs libs from distro a that's what base files you'll put into the image
2021-06-30 19:50:47	rascul	and chroot is just a chdir with a new root
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2021-06-30 19:50:58	rascul	so essentially, containers are the same as cd
2021-06-30 19:51:05	spyroboy	a single static binary in a container, minus some exceptions, is also kind of a departure from the point too.
2021-06-30 19:51:05	rascul	;)
2021-06-30 19:51:16	spyroboy	rascul, I mean, literally, yes.
2021-06-30 19:51:24	akik	a compact disc?
2021-06-30 19:51:28	spyroboy	it's just an advanced chroot with cgroups.
2021-06-30 19:51:33	rascul	cd command
2021-06-30 19:51:38	rascul	not the little frisbees
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2021-06-30 19:51:49	akik	a bit more than cd
2021-06-30 19:52:08	rascul	throw in some namespaces and cgroups and call it a container
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2021-06-30 19:52:19	spyroboy	let's not conflate the container with the runtime though.
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2021-06-30 19:52:30	rascul	i don't run at any time
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2021-06-30 19:52:47	rascul	i might walk slightly faster though, or drive
2021-06-30 19:52:47	spyroboy	people often say they like containers but what they mean is that they like the runtime environment.
2021-06-30 19:53:18	rascul	i like that there's many options for containers, or you can just build it from scratch because all the tools are available
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2021-06-30 19:54:28	rascul	ie you don't need docker or lxc or whatever, you can do all the cgroup and namespace stuff on your own
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2021-06-30 19:55:16	akik	microsoft does to windows the same than red hat did to centos, i.e. wtf communication
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2021-06-30 19:55:55	rascul	i gave up on red hat when i used red hat linux 7.0
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2021-06-30 19:56:38	rascul	6.2 was pretty good but 7.0 jumped off a cliff, hit the bottom, and kept going
2021-06-30 19:56:56	-->	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has joined #linux
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2021-06-30 19:57:26	akik	that's a long time ago
2021-06-30 19:57:33	akik	grandpa, tell us a story
2021-06-30 19:57:40	rascul	that was the story
2021-06-30 19:58:09	<--	lorwp (~lorwp@user/lorwp) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-30 19:58:48	rtypo	distros came on little frisbees back then
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2021-06-30 19:59:04	akik	and ubuntu mailed their install cds for free
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2021-06-30 19:59:10	c705	cool story grandpa hey what was chirstmas like in the 60s
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2021-06-30 20:00:12	rascul	i used to have some ubuntu coasters
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2021-06-30 20:00:32	 *	mlu etches rascul's ubuntu coaster
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2021-06-30 20:00:37	Kyv	we spent Christmas under a desk that year
2021-06-30 20:00:40	Kyv	waitin for the big one to drop
2021-06-30 20:01:07	rascul	did it drop?
2021-06-30 20:01:16	akik	the f bomb?
2021-06-30 20:01:34	spyroboy	I think he means did 'they' drop
2021-06-30 20:01:42	Kyv	when you heard the siren blare we were trained to throw the kids through the window and sell the car and go into the basement
2021-06-30 20:01:51	Kyv	or something like that
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2021-06-30 20:02:03	rascul	did you open the window first?
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2021-06-30 20:02:12	Kyv	there wouldnt be time
2021-06-30 20:02:19	Shariff	How do I get /etc/resolv.conf to match the dns info the box is getting from dhcp server (debian 10)?
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2021-06-30 20:02:36	rascul	Shariff generally the dhcp client will do that for you
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2021-06-30 20:03:35	Shariff	rascul: how do I figure out which dhcp client my box is using?
2021-06-30 20:04:07	spyroboy	Shariff, https://zwischenzugs.com/2018/06/08/anatomy-of-a-linux-dns-lookup-part-i/
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2021-06-30 20:04:40	Shariff	spyroboy: Thanks!
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2021-06-30 20:05:13	spyroboy	not sure if that helps you but it might inform where your issue is.
2021-06-30 20:05:53	Shariff	spyroboy: I'm sure it will, I'm reading it now :) Thanks!
2021-06-30 20:06:12	spyroboy	np
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2021-06-30 20:10:04	rascul	Shariff how do you get the ip address?
2021-06-30 20:10:37	Shariff	rascul: dhcp
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2021-06-30 20:11:27	Shariff	I think it was human error.. I added different values to /etc/resolv.conf and renewd the lease.. and POOF the info I set using dhcp was copied
2021-06-30 20:11:45	Intruder777	please suggest the proper piping. I need to `head -c 100` of each *.txt file and then grep in that 100 bytes some pattern and then I need file names list of matching files
2021-06-30 20:11:47	rascul	ahh it was a pebkac
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2021-06-30 20:15:18	Intruder777	So basically, I need to take first 100 bytes of each *.txt file in a directory and then grep in those bytes some pattern and then, as a result, I need list of matching files names
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2021-06-30 20:17:44	akik	sounds like home work
2021-06-30 20:17:49	-->	wyclif (~wyclif@user/wyclif) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 20:17:58	c705	^ exactly what i ws thinking
2021-06-30 20:17:58	-->	Nimzowitsch (~nimzo@user/nimzowitsch) has joined #linux
2021-06-30 20:18:09	akik	great minds think alike
2021-06-30 20:19:01	c705	were you the guy doing crystal meth the other day?
2021-06-30 20:19:12	c705	i always mix up you and someone else
2021-06-30 20:19:17	c705	ah no, autopsy
2021-06-30 20:19:23	akik	lol
2021-06-30 20:19:35	Dagmar	Possibly homework involving for loops, even
2021-06-30 20:19:45	justsomeguy	I wish I had homework like that, it sound like fun to do.
2021-06-30 20:19:48	akik	i need to distance myself from those guys
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2021-06-30 20:25:41	Kyv	whose guys?
2021-06-30 20:25:44	<--	galex-713 (~quassel@37.169.9.147) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-30 20:26:02	akik	meth guys
2021-06-30 20:26:37	Kyv	dont go to the meth conventions
2021-06-30 20:26:51	Kyv	or the liquor stores for at least the first hour after they open
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2021-06-30 20:27:09	phogg	Intruder777: and what part of that do you need help with?
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2021-06-30 20:29:03	Intruder777	phogg: trying to do it avoiding creating temporary files
2021-06-30 20:29:09	phogg	Intruder777: the first, obvious thing to try is head -c 100 *.txt, but if you try you will notice that quite a lot of stuff that isn't just the content of each file is printed. To avoid that you must feed each file to head one at a time. Do you know of a way to do that?
2021-06-30 20:29:32	phogg	Intruder777: no temporary files are required
2021-06-30 20:30:14	rascul	loop over files, store output of head | grep, if success then print file name and output
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2021-06-30 20:30:49	phogg	Sure, if you want to cut straight to the solution
2021-06-30 20:31:04	 *	rascul puts away his knife
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2021-06-30 20:31:29	phogg	the only fun left at this point is in the golf
2021-06-30 20:31:30	Intruder777	phogg: does piping support non-ascii bytes? like \x01 etc
2021-06-30 20:31:32	curdlesnoot	it's not working, phogg
2021-06-30 20:31:42	phogg	Intruder777: anything can go over a pipe
2021-06-30 20:32:01	phogg	curdlesnoot: what is "it" and can you describe "not working"?
2021-06-30 20:32:20	rascul	linux isn't working
2021-06-30 20:32:32	phogg	rascul: not with that attitude it's not
2021-06-30 20:32:43	<--	Nact (~l@host-85-27-127-179.dynamic.voo.be) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-30 20:32:44	rascul	it's off the clock
2021-06-30 20:32:53	phogg	rascul: change the CMOS battery
2021-06-30 20:33:05	Intruder777	ok, and what about head? does it output non-printable characters
2021-06-30 20:33:08	akik	GMT or UTC ?
2021-06-30 20:33:16	 *	rascul changes the mouse's battery
2021-06-30 20:33:21	phogg	Intruder777: it will output whatever is in the file, regardless of what it is
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2021-06-30 20:33:53	phogg	Intruder777: head -c /bin/sh | less # notice the bytes
2021-06-30 20:34:03	phogg	Intruder777: er, I mean head -c 10 /bin/sh | less
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2021-06-30 20:34:09	phogg	and notice that you got bytes
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2021-06-30 20:34:15	rascul	it called me an elf
2021-06-30 20:34:15	curdlesnoot	phogg: your invitation to divulge awareness of the utility of a loop
2021-06-30 20:34:45	phogg	curdlesnoot: awareness isn't always easy to divulge.
2021-06-30 20:34:49	phogg	that's why we have wars
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2021-06-30 20:35:16	rascul	i don't have wars anymore, you can do that without me
2021-06-30 20:35:27	phogg	Intruder777: if you're worried about involving binary data the place you should be concerned about most is the "match with grep" part.
2021-06-30 20:35:45	phogg	rascul: that's what they all say right before getting invaded
2021-06-30 20:35:55	rascul	gnu grep has options about binary files
2021-06-30 20:35:56	Intruder777	phogg: yeah, I've got that covered already
2021-06-30 20:36:02	Khaytsus	Nobody expects the rascul invasion.
2021-06-30 20:36:15	rascul	Khaytsus probably because i'm retired
2021-06-30 20:36:16	phogg	rascul: yes, it's just not so much "Works by default" as with head and pipes.
2021-06-30 20:36:17	Dagmar	Kind of sad that IBM is having mail problems
2021-06-30 20:36:27	<--	AndroidDAW (~AndroidDA@cpe-172-193-72-46.qld.foxtel.net.au) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-30 20:36:36	Dagmar	It would take some of us, what, four days _tops_ to deploy them a new one from the ground up
2021-06-30 20:36:37	phogg	rascul: retired from invading? Or just generally?
2021-06-30 20:36:51	rascul	from war type stuff
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2021-06-30 20:36:58	phogg	Dagmar: if you're having male problems see a doctor
2021-06-30 20:37:05	Khaytsus	rascul: WAR!  What's it really good for?  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
2021-06-30 20:37:24	Dagmar	phogg: I was astonished to see they're still actually using Notes in part of their stuff
2021-06-30 20:37:32	phogg	Intruder777: so do you have a solution to the "pass a file to head one at a time" problem? You never did say.
2021-06-30 20:37:34	Dagmar	i.e., Lotus Notes
2021-06-30 20:37:45	phogg	Dagmar: for IBM that is super not surprising
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2021-06-30 20:38:07	Dagmar	I thought pretty much all the Notes installations had been burned to the ground around 2008
2021-06-30 20:38:08	phogg	Dagmar: they invested very, very deeply in lotus for everything at one point.
2021-06-30 20:38:39	 *	rascul misses lotus organizer
2021-06-30 20:38:39	Intruder777	phogg: yeah, that was the problem. already got an advise on that. Got to use 'for'
2021-06-30 20:38:40	Khaytsus	Dagmar: Someone at workpointed out that we have Notes in our Microsoft Software Catalog.
2021-06-30 20:38:42	 *	Khaytsus shudders
2021-06-30 20:38:48	Dagmar	hehe
2021-06-30 20:39:19	Dagmar	Trying to install it should trigger automatic write-ups in the HR database
2021-06-30 20:39:29	phogg	Intruder777: the next trick is to get the answer to the question "is there a match?" for a file, without involving temporary storage. If you have a for loop you already know the file name, so this one is easy.
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2021-06-30 20:40:13	phogg	Dagmar: the mental scarring is punishment enough
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2021-06-30 20:40:59	Khaytsus	Dagmar: At work we used it for email until 2011 or so..  I heard in 2016 there were still people using the database.  I mean, Notes was a database that someone figured out you could stuff email into it of course.
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2021-06-30 20:41:08	firepup	dagmar
2021-06-30 20:41:13	firepup	i have a copy of windows xp
2021-06-30 20:41:15	firepup	with lotus note
2021-06-30 20:41:17	firepup	c:
2021-06-30 20:41:23	Dagmar	So what
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2021-06-30 20:41:35	firepup	just pointing out its still aruond
2021-06-30 20:41:37	firepup	around*
2021-06-30 20:41:47	rascul	i think that's the problem
2021-06-30 20:41:49	phogg	Khaytsus: it was yet-another-gargantuan-everything-engine
2021-06-30 20:41:53	onelegend	the source code was leaked
2021-06-30 20:42:00	firepup	why did lotus burn to the ground anyway- oh i see
2021-06-30 20:42:42	rascul	lotus notes was bought up by hcl   https://www.hcltechsw.com/wps/portal/products/notes
2021-06-30 20:42:42	<--	galex-713 (gal@portable.galex-713.eu) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-30 20:42:49	phogg	the trouble with everything engines are (a) inevitably the design doesn't stand the test of time, and (b) they're so complicated no one really understands how they work, and (c) the less that (a) is a problem the more (b) is a problem.
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2021-06-30 20:43:12	rascul	latest release 31 march 2020
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2021-06-30 20:45:17	Shaun	we still have Notes floating around.  I get the impression they're desperate to kill it, each db gets a scream test every 6 months now
2021-06-30 20:45:57	Khaytsus	Everyone screams and sees if Notes still exists?
2021-06-30 20:46:11	Shaun	they kill access and wait to see who complains
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2021-06-30 20:46:16	curdlesnoot	everyone discovers that it still exists and screams
2021-06-30 20:46:18	Khaytsus	Oh, nice, I like doing that.
2021-06-30 20:46:27	Khaytsus	It'a amazing how often it's NOBODY
2021-06-30 20:46:38	phogg	curdlesnoot is more correct but less accurate
2021-06-30 20:46:43	Khaytsus	THiS IS an urGEnT BuSINeSs REQuiREMENT
2021-06-30 20:46:44	Khaytsus	Kill access
2021-06-30 20:46:48	Khaytsus	<crickets>
2021-06-30 20:47:07	phogg	the scream test is not effective in all cases
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2021-06-30 20:47:37	Khaytsus	I know at work they mostly used it for periodic things anymore, so I dunno how long but maybe weeks between?
2021-06-30 20:48:13	phogg	there is often some poor schmo whose job it is to ensure that it keeps running at all times, and that fellow may scream very loudly indeed and may provide reams of justifications as to why it must stay up, even if it transpires that he has had zero users for years
2021-06-30 20:48:38	firepup	Why- bruh why keep software if no one uses it
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2021-06-30 20:48:45	firepup	it may as well be 0's for all it is
2021-06-30 20:48:48	Khaytsus	Because that's all that guy is seful for
2021-06-30 20:48:50	Khaytsus	RUnning Notes
2021-06-30 20:48:54	Khaytsus	If Notes is gone, who needs him
2021-06-30 20:49:14	Khaytsus	I used to know a VAX neckbeard who always said the VAX and he will retire on the same day.
2021-06-30 20:49:25	phogg	I've run in to this on a couple of occasions. An entire person whose entire job is pointless. The person is likely not to know it.
2021-06-30 20:49:37	firepup	and they get paid well for this?
2021-06-30 20:49:50	Kyv	just a couple?
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2021-06-30 20:49:57	Khaytsus	phogg: I know a guy that for 10+ years basically made work for himself..  eventually someone was like what are you even doing?  And he left the company in a fluster.
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2021-06-30 20:50:03	phogg	firepup: if you find this hard to fathom you have never worked for a ponderous bureaucracy
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2021-06-30 20:50:38	Kyv	I run into this on a daily basis
2021-06-30 20:50:41	firepup	i havent taken work up yet, so i wouldnt know that companies would come up with jobs that are just pointless
2021-06-30 20:50:48	robinp	does the linux documentation project still have an IRC channel somewhere ? (was #tldp on Freenode)
2021-06-30 20:51:00	phogg	Khaytsus: I've told the story in this channel before of the person whose job it was to print out a hard copy of a database as a backup *daily*, and then throw away yesterday's. And nothing else.
2021-06-30 20:51:21	firepup	robinp you could just check the site?
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2021-06-30 20:51:30	Khaytsus	phogg: Pretty sure Dante described that job
2021-06-30 20:51:37	Shaun	that sounds like an easy fix.  tell him he can't delete the old one until he's verified he can restore from the new one.  he'll be gone in minutes.
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2021-06-30 20:52:04	Khaytsus	firepup: You wind up with jobs like that which are big places with lots of things going and projects that ebb and flow.
2021-06-30 20:52:06	phogg	Khaytsus: Dante wrote fiction. I've met this person. She thinks this is serving a purpose and sleeps soundly at night.
2021-06-30 20:52:10	Khaytsus	Sometimes someone gets left behind that nobody remembers
2021-06-30 20:52:35	HelloPeoples	Hey, I'm running a work VPN using OpenConnect, but it's messing with my access to local devices, such as printers and home VMs... can someone please remind me of the doco to read on fixing this?
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2021-06-30 20:53:00	mlu	HelloPeoples: that's kind of expected
2021-06-30 20:53:02	Khaytsus	You can't always have split VPN with openconnect, I think it can be up to the endoint
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2021-06-30 20:53:13	Khaytsus	I personally run my VPN stuff in a VM so it's isolated from the rest of my network.
2021-06-30 20:53:17	mlu	HelloPeoples: unless your work VPN has separate IP address ranges than your own local stuff, there's really no solution here
2021-06-30 20:53:36	Khaytsus	Most VPNs will take the connection entirely to prevent any leaks.
2021-06-30 20:53:37	HelloPeoples	it does mlu
2021-06-30 20:53:43	HelloPeoples	ah ya
2021-06-30 20:53:45	Khaytsus	Doesn't matter what the address space is
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2021-06-30 20:54:02	mlu	this is actually why I specifically chose an arbitrary IP address range for my home network: so that it's unlikely to conflict with any VPN I may use
2021-06-30 20:54:12	mlu	HelloPeoples: in this case, look at the installed routes
2021-06-30 20:54:22	HelloPeoples	I use 192.168.192 at home - no one else uses that...
2021-06-30 20:54:36	Khaytsus	I use 0.0.0.0/24
2021-06-30 20:54:43	mlu	HelloPeoples: some VPNs may be default configured to take over a broader IP address range than necessary
2021-06-30 20:54:59	 *	mlu uses 192.168.6.0/23 at home
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2021-06-30 20:55:38	HelloPeoples	how can I check the routes?  like I know in Linux, but OpenConnect is kinda new to me (it's frikkin awesome but! - works better than Ciscos's windows client lol)
2021-06-30 20:55:49	rascul	i just use 127.18.192.0/19
2021-06-30 20:55:56	mlu	HelloPeoples: ip route # will show you your route table
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2021-06-30 20:56:20	rascul	'ip -6 route' if you want the ipv6 stuffs
2021-06-30 20:56:24	HelloPeoples	192.168.0.0/16 dev tun0 scope link
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2021-06-30 20:56:28	mlu	rascul: ow -- so nonstandard
2021-06-30 20:56:36	HelloPeoples	you were right, they're taking over too much
2021-06-30 20:56:38	d0rm0us3	I always thought the 'rule of thumb' was that work related VPN's were configured to NOT allow split tunneling.
2021-06-30 20:56:39	rascul	mlu 127.* is standard
2021-06-30 20:56:44	mlu	rascul: for loopback
2021-06-30 20:56:52	rascul	indeed, i use it for loopback :)
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2021-06-30 20:57:05	mlu	rascul: curious if you've ran into any issues before
2021-06-30 20:57:12	mlu	rascul: guess like you don't have any OpenBSD installs on your network?
2021-06-30 20:57:12	rascul	nope
2021-06-30 20:57:18	HelloPeoples	ok, I'll just use my desktop and laptop then.  simpler solution.  pain though.
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2021-06-30 20:57:33	rascul	best part is i don't even need to assign any address to the loopback interface, it already knows the ip address ;)
2021-06-30 20:57:50	mlu	rascul: all one machine, eh?
2021-06-30 20:58:09	HelloPeoples	cheers, have a good one ppls!
2021-06-30 20:58:13	rascul	i think you're missing the joke and it might be because i didn't say it good enough
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2021-06-30 21:00:25	rascul	but you can just bind to and ping 127.0.0.1 - 127.255.255.254 out of the box without doing any address assigning to loopback interface
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2021-06-30 21:00:39	rascul	on linux anyway, by default
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2021-06-30 21:01:17	mlu	yes :)
2021-06-30 21:01:20	mlu	great for testing
2021-06-30 21:01:40	rascul	firefox will ignore entries for it in resolv.conf though
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2021-06-30 21:02:16	rascul	recent change, within last year or so if i recall correctly
2021-06-30 21:02:36	rascul	er, hosts i mean not resolv.conf
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2021-06-30 21:04:10	rascul	used to, for example, be able to have entries in /etc/hosts like "127.74.122.209  i.like.butter" then have apache/nginx bind to 127.74.122.209 and firefox will resolve http://i.like.butter to that, but firefox now ignores 127.* entries in /etc/hosts
2021-06-30 21:04:15	rascul	or some such
2021-06-30 21:04:40	Kyv	put the butter down
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2021-06-30 21:05:03	sickdyd	Apologies: probably the wrong place to ask. Do you guys know if there is a way to get a batch of random IP addresses that are located in the us? I need to test an IP location API to check if it actually understands that the country those IPs are from is the US (and then other countries as well)
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2021-06-30 21:08:20	rascul	no good way
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2021-06-30 21:09:46	Kyv	how should I put it?
2021-06-30 21:09:51	rascul	problem is that there's nothing about an ip in the spec that correlates it to any location so to get that information you have third parties trying to discover on their own or by voluntary submission where an ip address might be located
2021-06-30 21:10:18	sickdyd	what if I use a page like this https://ghostpath.com/servers/country/United%20States and run a whois on each address get the IP
2021-06-30 21:10:19	rascul	then you get a list from one of those third parties and have no way to verify the accuracy
2021-06-30 21:10:35	sickdyd	and get the IP *
2021-06-30 21:10:40	rascul	the whois isn't telling you anything about the physical location the ip is being used
2021-06-30 21:11:04	sickdyd	yeah, but the website tells me those servers are located in the US (I guess I can trust this)
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2021-06-30 21:11:22	sickdyd	then I can get the IP address and send it to my API and check the result
2021-06-30 21:11:36	rascul	whois shows that my ip is registered to a company in florida
2021-06-30 21:11:58	rascul	whois doesn't know if i'm using this ip in the us or mexico or spain or antarctica or wherever
2021-06-30 21:12:05	sickdyd	I'm not looking for the location with whois
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2021-06-30 21:12:36	sickdyd	I'm looking for the IP address of atl1.gpvpn.com
2021-06-30 21:12:46	rascul	that's just a simple dns resolution
2021-06-30 21:12:56	rascul	use dig, host, nslookup, or about 4892361502914837 other tools
2021-06-30 21:13:08	sickdyd	I never had to do anything like this
2021-06-30 21:13:16	sickdyd	the only command I know is whois lol
2021-06-30 21:13:27	rascul	run 'host atl1.gpvpn.com'
2021-06-30 21:13:48	sickdyd	rascul: nice, thanks!
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2021-06-30 21:14:46	rascul	anyway, my point is that your ip location api is junk
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2021-06-30 21:14:55	rascul	probably best not to rely on it
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2021-06-30 21:15:46	rascul	if the client is a web browser there's a way to query it for the timezone or location or something which might be better than some api that doesn't have authoritative information
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2021-06-30 21:26:35	Dagmar	ALmost certainly
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2021-06-30 21:46:26	neshpion	why is openssl the way it is T_T
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2021-06-30 21:47:00	pnbeast	neshpion, because your patches were rejected?
2021-06-30 21:47:11	 *	mlu points neshpion to nss, libressl, and boringssl
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2021-06-30 21:48:22	rascul	because that's how it was made
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2021-06-30 21:49:02	c705	how were you made rascul
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2021-06-30 21:49:20	 *	pnbeast waits, afraid and eager...
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2021-06-30 21:50:42	rascul	i was made with love
2021-06-30 21:50:55	firepup	what about openssl
2021-06-30 21:51:04	c705	lucky you
2021-06-30 21:51:04	neshpion	no i'm just reviewing how to generate ssl certs and it makes me nauseated that i'm recommended to pass -out and -keyout, and -new and -newkey
2021-06-30 21:51:09	firepup	oh lol
2021-06-30 21:51:11	neshpion	what is this T_T
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2021-06-30 21:51:20	c705	neshpion: it's fine, just do what it says
2021-06-30 21:51:21	rascul	i don't know what T_T is
2021-06-30 21:51:34	firepup	it the text represention for someone with tears
2021-06-30 21:51:43	rascul	neshpion ^
2021-06-30 21:51:52	firepup	although it does somewhat resemble a ghast
2021-06-30 21:52:05	 *	neshpion shoots fireball at firepup
2021-06-30 21:52:10	mlu	it's an anime hentai girl crying profusely
2021-06-30 21:52:21	mlu	usually after a traumatic experience such as spilling their ice cream
2021-06-30 21:52:22	 *	firepup shoots the fireball back with a bow and arrow with punch 2
2021-06-30 21:52:30	firepup	sadly punch 2 doesnt make it go faster lol
2021-06-30 21:52:43	c705	what
2021-06-30 21:52:50	mlu	T_T
2021-06-30 21:52:56	 *	neshpion dodges the fireball and parkours the yeet back to firepup with extra sus
2021-06-30 21:54:02	mlu	nesphion: I just never use -newkey and -keyout
2021-06-30 21:54:14	neshpion	i was thinking those might be redundant
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2021-06-30 21:54:22	mlu	generating the key is separate from signing certificates
2021-06-30 21:54:36	mlu	lots of those are like: generate a key and a csr simultaneously -- but I prefer to do those separately
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2021-06-30 22:10:56	sickdyd	rascul, gotcha
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2021-06-30 22:15:22	Kyv	gootchie goo him
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2021-06-30 22:56:40	 *	rascul notices that someone has let the dogs out
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2021-06-30 22:57:24	quartz	I installed vim on Manjaro KDE but I have no clipboard support apparently. How do I get clipboard support???
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2021-06-30 22:59:54	vwork	Define "no clipboard support"
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2021-06-30 23:00:27	quartz	vwork: I want to copy text from vim and have that text stored in my clipboard so I can paste it elsewhere.
2021-06-30 23:00:57	vwork	I presume you mean regular old vim in a terminal?
2021-06-30 23:01:22	jim	what part(s) of that didn't work?
2021-06-30 23:01:31	vwork	And how are you going about copying from vim
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2021-06-30 23:02:05	quartz	vwork: Yes, regular old vim in terminal.
2021-06-30 23:02:27	quartz	I'm highlighting the text, than I do "+y but nothing copies to the clipboard
2021-06-30 23:02:35	quartz	"*y is the same
2021-06-30 23:02:49	quartz	Amazing how a text editor like vim has no clipboard support
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2021-06-30 23:03:34	jim	I don't think the text editor itself would have support
2021-06-30 23:03:42	jim	I think the terminal would
2021-06-30 23:03:54	vwork	Probably easier to use the terminal's clipboard than trying to get vim to do it
2021-06-30 23:04:11	quartz	Uhhhh
2021-06-30 23:04:18	firepup	you use alt ins to copy
2021-06-30 23:04:20	quartz	Yeah that does not work either apparently
2021-06-30 23:04:23	firepup	shift ins to paste
2021-06-30 23:04:31	quartz	firepup: Let me try that now
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2021-06-30 23:06:18	quartz	firepup: Does not work :(
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2021-06-30 23:06:25	firepup	f
2021-06-30 23:07:21	quartz	Typically it's CTRL + SHIT + C to copy from terminal.
2021-06-30 23:07:28	quartz	That does not work in vim apparently lol. Unbelieveable.
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2021-06-30 23:07:54	firepup	can you copy and paste outside of vim in terminal
2021-06-30 23:08:21	quartz	firepup: I've tried like multiple methods.... all don't work.
2021-06-30 23:08:23	vwork	Just highlighting to copy and middle click to paste works most of the time
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2021-06-30 23:08:40	firepup	vwork im curious how you middle click with just two buttons
2021-06-30 23:08:57	quartz	firepup: I think he means scroll wheel click
2021-06-30 23:09:03	vwork	Correct
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2021-06-30 23:11:56	firepup	have you read documentation on it yet quartz?
2021-06-30 23:12:37	quartz	firepup: Yes, reading now. But nothing seems to work. I think I have to adjust my ~/.vimrc settings.
2021-06-30 23:12:38	Kyv	quartz: you have 'clipboard support'
2021-06-30 23:12:41	<--	akaWolf (~akaWolf@akawolf.org) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-30 23:12:46	quartz	Kyv: I do?
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2021-06-30 23:13:04	Kyv	try shift + Insert or middle mouse?
2021-06-30 23:13:10	firepup	they just did
2021-06-30 23:13:51	Kyv	alternatively ctrl + shift + v works to paste from browser, by example
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2021-06-30 23:13:57	Kyv	for me anyway
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2021-06-30 23:14:41	vwork	I just tried highlight+middle click on a kde install from vim and works as expected. Using the default emulator anyway.
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2021-06-30 23:15:59	Kyv	copying from is y 'yank'
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2021-06-30 23:16:54	quartz	Kyv: I think it may be a setting in ~/.vimrc
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2021-06-30 23:18:03	quartz	lol
2021-06-30 23:18:23	quartz	"Vim is not compiled with clipboard support in Arch/Manjaro"
2021-06-30 23:18:28	sem	hey all, I am connected to a machine via ssh only, and I need to change the mac address. Should something like this make the machine connectable again? `sudo ip link set wlan0 down; sudo macchanger -m xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx; sudo ip link set wlan0 up`
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2021-06-30 23:18:54	Dagmar	You know you can just _set the mac with ip, right?
2021-06-30 23:19:08	sem	I thought it would reset every boot
2021-06-30 23:19:16	Dagmar	It will always do that.
2021-06-30 23:19:18	Kyv	did you add the "arch" part?
2021-06-30 23:19:43	sem	So how would i get the mac to always be what I want it to be (what the router wants)
2021-06-30 23:19:43	quartz	Kyv: No
2021-06-30 23:19:57	Dagmar	Set it before you bring the interface up.
2021-06-30 23:20:00	Dagmar	THat's pretty much it.
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2021-06-30 23:20:10	Kyv	quartz: very odd.
2021-06-30 23:20:15	Kyv	maybe you will fare better with neovim
2021-06-30 23:20:15	quartz	So now I have to get something called gvim.
2021-06-30 23:20:18	sem	Dagmar, and if I have a power outage?
2021-06-30 23:20:21	quartz	Kyv: what is that
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2021-06-30 23:20:30	sem	when it reboots will it go back to the hardware mac?
2021-06-30 23:20:45	Dagmar	sem: That's when you poke aroudn and find out if your distribution has some cunning variable that you can set which will make it handle that part for you
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2021-06-30 23:20:54	Kyv	vim is still maintained solely by the original vim creator, bram molenaar.. neovim is a more community-centered contrib
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2021-06-30 23:21:06	Kyv	with cleaned up code and more open to additions
2021-06-30 23:21:22	quartz	Kyv: Wow... I'm still blown away that it has no system clipboard support
2021-06-30 23:21:30	Dagmar	RHEL has one
2021-06-30 23:21:30	Kyv	MAYBE it will have clipboard support... as absurd as that is.
2021-06-30 23:21:33	Dagmar	I don't know about the others.
2021-06-30 23:21:35	quartz	Exactly
2021-06-30 23:21:35	Dagmar	It's not even hard.
2021-06-30 23:21:46	sem	hmm i will look into it
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2021-06-30 23:21:55	vwork	sem: You can set the hwaddress in /etc/network/interfaces
2021-06-30 23:22:01	Kyv	I've never installed vim anywhere and had that issue
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2021-06-30 23:22:13	Dagmar	The only reason they even initialize with an address flashed into the chip is that MAYHEM happens should two devices in the same domain ever have the same MAC address.
2021-06-30 23:22:16	Kyv	so someone somewhere should have to pay
2021-06-30 23:22:19	sem	oh ok
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2021-06-30 23:22:30	Kyv	Hope it doesn't sour you from the experience.
2021-06-30 23:22:35	sem	I'll just make a note of the original in there, and change it to what I need it to be
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2021-06-30 23:22:49	Kyv	Sometimes the clipboard confuses people new to it when they are accustomed to a certain way.
2021-06-30 23:22:55	Kyv	So I figured it was just that.
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2021-06-30 23:23:59	quartz	Kyv: What distro are you on?
2021-06-30 23:24:04	Dagmar	You won't need to worry about that.  Basically nothing will effect a _permanent_ change on the mac anymore
2021-06-30 23:24:11	Kyv	Artix
2021-06-30 23:24:34	Dagmar	When it became a common hardware feature to hand a card a new MAC address instead of having to reflash an EEPROM that pretty much stopped being a thing
2021-06-30 23:24:44	Guest87	how do i know how many inodes i have and how do i add more?
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2021-06-30 23:25:00	rapiz	anyone can help me with namespace? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68203839/how-does-mount-propagation-behave-when-calling-clone-with-clone-newuserclone-n
2021-06-30 23:25:20	rapiz	mount propagation seems wired to me
2021-06-30 23:25:28	quartz	Kyv: Never heard of that distro.
2021-06-30 23:25:39	quartz	Not that I'm an experienced linux user :)
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2021-06-30 23:25:54	Dagmar	Guest87: "enough" and "you can't"
2021-06-30 23:26:08	rapiz	*werid
2021-06-30 23:26:10	Dagmar	You don't get to just *add* inodes.
2021-06-30 23:26:19	Dagmar	You get to reformat and specify more then
2021-06-30 23:26:27	vwork	I haven't heard of it either and I've been using Linux for ~25 years. But that's probably why I haven't heard of it. Debian hasn't gone anywhere during that entire span :p
2021-06-30 23:27:08	Guest87	hmm well according to stackoverflow to resolve a kubernetes diskpressure problem you need to somehow make sure you have enough inodes
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2021-06-30 23:27:42	sem	it looks like changing the /etc/network/interfaces wouldn't be great either? I'd have to change it anytime i wanted to connect to a different wifi
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2021-06-30 23:28:01	Kyv	vwork: in that case you may find it familiar anyway
2021-06-30 23:28:12	Dagmar	sem: Dig around.  There's probably a github repo for something that does that as a simple privacy measure
2021-06-30 23:28:14	Bashing-om	Guest87: ' sudo du --inode ' Inodes are set at file system creation time. These are reserved areas on the disk, so ... that reservation happens when the file system is created. It cannot be altered later.
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2021-06-30 23:28:25	sem	Dagmar, I think it is macchanger
2021-06-30 23:28:30	vwork	Kyv it is convenient that there's so many Debian derivatives
2021-06-30 23:28:35	jim	sem, debian?
2021-06-30 23:28:47	jim	sem, for a wireless, if
2021-06-30 23:28:49	jim	err
2021-06-30 23:28:50	sem	raspbian
2021-06-30 23:29:07	Kyv	vwork: if you have heard of Devuan, the concept is kind of similar in Artix
2021-06-30 23:29:07	Guest87	ok so that command shows all of the ones in the current folder and below it
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2021-06-30 23:29:20	Dagmar	sem: If it doesn't have hooks for NetworkManager or whatever, it's still a needless binary
2021-06-30 23:29:21	quartz	Kyv: Just out of pure curiosity, why do you use Artix?
2021-06-30 23:29:27	jim	sem, for a wireless, it's often a good choice to go with network-manager
2021-06-30 23:29:30	Dagmar	sem: You ever used a Nintendo 3DS?
2021-06-30 23:29:52	vwork	Kyv: I have. So Artix is on traditional init then?
2021-06-30 23:30:02	sem	iirc network-manager has a cli version
2021-06-30 23:30:15	Kyv	vwork: well, OpenRC is available, and a few others
2021-06-30 23:30:17	jim	sem, network-manager would show you the networks near you in a list you can choose
2021-06-30 23:30:30	Dagmar	sem: It had a weird thing in it called "Streetpass" which was to sort of trade virtual stickers if you ever got your 3DS handhold _near_ another person's 3DS handheld... but that doesn't really work in the US.
2021-06-30 23:30:35	Bashing-om	Guest87: 'sudo df -ih/ ' <- To list statistics about inode usage.
2021-06-30 23:30:41	vwork	Kyv: But deliberate avoidance of systemd, I mean.
2021-06-30 23:30:52	Kyv	quartz: it is like the minimalism and full control of Arch but moreso, given it doesnt use systemd.
2021-06-30 23:31:06	quartz	Kyv: What is wrong with systemd?
2021-06-30 23:31:14	Guest87	hmmm so it seems i have 1.9m free
2021-06-30 23:31:17	Dagmar	sem: So tehy made "Streetpass Relays" which were where the 3DS would basically chat up open access points with certain names (like 'attwifi') and contact a central server to store some virtual whatnots for the next people that passed that same AP to pick up
2021-06-30 23:31:26	Dagmar	sem: The entire thing was driven by the MAC address of the AP.
2021-06-30 23:31:37	Guest87	so i guess that may not be the problem and it is a disk storage problem? I only have 2Gb left on my live usb
2021-06-30 23:31:51	Dagmar	sem: So, appearing to be at a Starbucks in San Bernadino just required you know the mac address of the AP there and _spoof it_
2021-06-30 23:31:52	firepup	quartz: that it does too much
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2021-06-30 23:32:16	Dagmar	sem: I and a couple of friends had Raspberry Pis that would just roam the earth by scraping wigle.net's database
2021-06-30 23:32:24	Dagmar	At NO POINT did I even look at macchanger.
2021-06-30 23:32:24	Kyv	quartz: it can be a lengthy discussion
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2021-06-30 23:32:47	vwork	And that's a bit of an understatement.
2021-06-30 23:32:57	jim	there are actually two other UIs for network manager, a TUI, a full-screen terminal app, and a CLI, you'd call stuff in your shell
2021-06-30 23:33:09	sem	so how did you change the macaddresses? with ip every time?
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2021-06-30 23:33:28	Dagmar	I simply _set_ them with the ip command, just like you set an IP address with the ip command.
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2021-06-30 23:33:41	sem	jim, it looks like this person was having trouble: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1121523/how-do-i-get-networkmanager-to-assign-a-fixed-mac-address-to-eth0
2021-06-30 23:34:22	Dagmar	I'd even gone so far as to use tcpdump to monitor the segment and keep track of when all the 3DS's nearby had finished phoning home, and then immediately drop the AP, change to a new MAC and bring it back up
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2021-06-30 23:34:26	jim	I remember I had to do that too
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2021-06-30 23:34:59	sem	Dagmar, ok, here is what I know: when I turn on the rpi, it uses wpa_supplicant to auth into the wifi, and dhcpcd to get an IP address. I am not sure how to add a custom mac address to this process.
2021-06-30 23:35:37	Dagmar	You set the mac address _before_ you associate because the association with the AP is *bound* to the MAC address
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2021-06-30 23:36:03	sem	i am not sure how raspbian does it
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2021-06-30 23:36:25	Dagmar	It doesn't
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2021-06-30 23:36:34	sem	but you're saying it would be before wpa_supplicant is called
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2021-06-30 23:36:40	Dagmar	You'll need to modify the network initialization script to use ip or ifconfig to set the mac before calling wpa_supplicant
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2021-06-30 23:37:14	Dagmar	It's only marginally more annoying with systemd than it was before
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2021-06-30 23:37:56	Dagmar	...granted that's not some brag on systemd.  It was always a fairly big pain in the butt
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2021-06-30 23:38:07	sem	so there is some systemd service that does the initial ip link set wlan0 up, and I just have to find it and change it to include a mac address
2021-06-30 23:38:15	Dagmar	Yes.
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2021-06-30 23:38:54	Dagmar	On my ghostpass system I mainly told everything to not look at or even *think* about the wireless NIC and just drove the entire thing with a bash script
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2021-06-30 23:39:17	Kyv	sounds exactly how I initialize my connection though
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2021-06-30 23:39:24	Kyv	the names have been changed to protect the innocent
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2021-06-30 23:40:32	Kyv	dhcpcd has hooks for calling on wpa_supplicant as well though
2021-06-30 23:40:36	Kyv	which can be handy
2021-06-30 23:40:53	Dagmar	I use dhclient for that sort of thing
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2021-06-30 23:41:18	Dagmar	I am somewhat irked ISC looks like they're going to be dropping it for no other reason than it's not really being maintained anymore
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2021-06-30 23:41:49	Dagmar	For years it was basically just Ted Lemon so I'm pretty sure _some_ community project won't have an issue with taking it over
2021-06-30 23:42:08	Dagmar	...assuming ISC doesn't demand they write unit tests for everything
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2021-06-30 23:42:42	Dagmar	Considering all the weird edge cases for obsolete hardware I don't think it's even possible to write a "proper" set of unit tests for it
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2021-06-30 23:42:56	sem	I think for now I'll try emailing the network admin if he can just tell the router to accept my mac address so I don't have to figure out how to change it
2021-06-30 23:43:23	Dagmar	sem: You should learn how to set arbitrary mac addresses.
2021-06-30 23:43:24	Dagmar	:)
2021-06-30 23:43:30	Dagmar	It's a thing that is always useful to know.
2021-06-30 23:43:41	sem	I am not worried about that
2021-06-30 23:43:50	sem	I am worried about doing it after a power outage automatically
2021-06-30 23:43:52	Dagmar	...particuarly the NSA's OUI when there's tin-foil-hatters about
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2021-06-30 23:44:09	Dagmar	Do you worry about your machine not getting an IP address after a power outage?
2021-06-30 23:44:13	sem	yes
2021-06-30 23:44:16	Dagmar	Like, normally?
2021-06-30 23:44:20	sem	because then I will not be able to ssh into it
2021-06-30 23:44:51	Dagmar	Then your options are to add a line to an init script somewhere, or to have them whitelist your MAC address properly
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2021-06-30 23:45:57	Dagmar	Knowing hwo to change macs is especialyl handy because it makes it slightly easier to force deassociations.
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2021-06-30 23:47:35	Dagmar	I should amend that... it makes it easier to force deassociations without generating any evidence it was you
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2021-06-30 23:51:23	vwork	Sometimes it's necessary in order to deauth at all, depending on the configuration
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2021-06-30 23:54:30	vwork	Modern clients shouldn't ack MFs from arbitrary stations
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2021-07-01 00:00:11	quartz	Installed neovim, and I still don't have system X11 clipboard support
2021-07-01 00:00:27	quartz	I added the line set clipboard=unnamed in my ~/.vimrc file
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2021-07-01 00:04:20	quartz	I think the problem may be tmux
2021-07-01 00:04:52	Kyv	quartz: you neglected to mention that part. at least, I did not catch it.
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2021-07-01 00:05:50	Kyv	that addition to the vim config should set clipboard functionality which is more to the expectation of people unfamiliar
2021-07-01 00:05:57	Kyv	if I remember
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2021-07-01 00:07:15	Kyv	I have not had this
2021-07-01 00:07:22	quartz	Kyv: I didn't think tmux would effect anything.
2021-07-01 00:07:37	quartz	Neovim messed up all the nice color coding in my .c files
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2021-07-01 00:08:34	Kyv	it supposedly has more extensive syntax hilighting support than vim
2021-07-01 00:08:49	Kyv	but they are included in a more modular way
2021-07-01 00:09:04	Kyv	it may be you have to go and fetch them
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2021-07-01 00:09:19	Kyv	personally I just use vim vim
2021-07-01 00:09:44	quartz	Kyv: Yes, I wish I could but apparently vim vim does not have clipboard functionality in Manjaro
2021-07-01 00:10:17	Kyv	then is this working outside of tmux with nvim?
2021-07-01 00:10:26	quartz	Kyv: nope
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2021-07-01 00:13:19	vwork	I'm still perplexed how the system clipboard just doesn't work for you, quartz. I have a Manjaro instance, and copying and pasting from vim and tmux and anything else Just Works like it's supposed to using konsole.
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2021-07-01 00:13:47	Kyv	quartz: did you say you had installed gvim already?
2021-07-01 00:14:02	quartz	Kyv: neovim
2021-07-01 00:14:15	quartz	vwork: How are you copying from vim?
2021-07-01 00:14:19	quartz	INto your system clipboard
2021-07-01 00:14:33	quartz	I'd rather just use vim honestly
2021-07-01 00:14:34	vwork	Highlighting text with the mouse, then middle clicking to paste elsewhere
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2021-07-01 00:15:48	Kyv	The recommendation I am seeing it to install gvim (which can be called as vim)
2021-07-01 00:15:51	Kyv	this has the support
2021-07-01 00:15:53	vwork	Using konsole's copy/paste menu buttons works too
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2021-07-01 00:17:58	quartz	Hmm OK. I'll work on this tomorrow.
2021-07-01 00:18:03	quartz	I've no idea why this won't work.
2021-07-01 00:18:22	blake	lol
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2021-07-01 00:22:10	moha	Hi, Do you know what is this tool: https://u.teknik.io/8oBbY.png, an IDE feature or a programm?
2021-07-01 00:23:10	akik	moha: what's what?
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2021-07-01 00:23:45	moha	how they print that shape in the IDE? Is it vim editor?
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2021-07-01 00:24:01	vwork	It looks like gedit
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2021-07-01 00:24:30	akik	moha: open text editor and "draw"
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2021-07-01 00:28:03	Sauvin	All I saw was something that looked like decolourised libcaca of some kind.
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2021-07-01 00:29:04	quartz	Kyv: OK, gvim worked, but oddly enough, neovim did not. It even asked me if I wanted to install dependences for xclip
2021-07-01 00:30:00	quartz	Kyv: Thanks :)
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2021-07-01 00:32:28	Kyv	quartz: glad it is working
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2021-07-01 00:46:01	ircuser33194811	hi. i am duping a disk. will dd read on beyond eof until i stop it?
2021-07-01 00:47:16	ircuser33194811	  oh, i won't. just could not await it, as it seems. never mind.
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2021-07-01 01:02:34	jim	ircuser33194811, unless you need to copy blocks that aren't in files, (this leads to:) you may wish to use a file-by-file copier
2021-07-01 01:03:13	jim	(cp, rsync, various backup programs, borg is the one I know, it's pretty good)
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2021-07-01 01:07:42	Kyv	creating the new file system and copying the files is the more advisable way
2021-07-01 01:08:33	Kyv	and rsync itself is likely to surpass any needs
2021-07-01 01:08:48	Kyv	very good utility
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2021-07-01 01:12:56	Czernobog	Anyone know a good application where I can use live wallpapers ?
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2021-07-01 01:14:29	Dagmar	An entire background composed of tiny souls being tormented in various ways for your amusement.
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2021-07-01 01:19:12	Kyv	I was picturing an aerial shot of the golden gate bridge
2021-07-01 01:19:30	Kyv	and I am wondering how you knew that
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2021-07-01 01:33:12	Kyv	Czernobog: something called 'wallset', I guess.
2021-07-01 01:33:17	Kyv	works with mp4s
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2021-07-01 01:33:44	Kyv	Dont sit there all day staring, remember to rest eyes
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2021-07-01 01:36:51	 *	pnbeast stares at the resting eyes.
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2021-07-01 02:42:29	Guest70	Where is lacroix
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2021-07-01 02:42:53	Guest70	He’s from Lebanon and I want to ask him to open a Linux lb community
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2021-07-01 02:43:46	Sauvin	Guest70, is "lb" Lebanon?
2021-07-01 02:43:53	Guest70	Yes
2021-07-01 02:44:14	Sauvin	Guest70, if that channel doesn't already exist (have you looked?) drop into #linux-ops.
2021-07-01 02:44:25	Guest70	Ok
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2021-07-01 02:55:58	loganlee	guys if i change content of /etc/hosts how to make that change take effect?
2021-07-01 02:56:19	schillingklaus	by rebooting
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2021-07-01 02:57:14	ayecee	normally just by saving the changes
2021-07-01 02:57:25	esselfe	yeah no need to reboot
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2021-07-01 02:58:42	ayecee	it's a question that makes me think that it doesn't cover the actual problem
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2021-07-01 02:59:29	dag	offtopic: what is the name of a device that you can plug a naked 2.5 HDD/SSD into and then usb at the other end into pc?
2021-07-01 02:59:37	ayecee	like if he changed the file and then wonders why dig returns the same results
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2021-07-01 03:00:09	ayecee	dag: a usb sata bridge
2021-07-01 03:01:06	dag	ayecee: thanks. hopefully they are not expensive. not a popluar consumer product im guessing
2021-07-01 03:01:36	ayecee	often less expensive than enclosures
2021-07-01 03:01:42	<--	Guest70 (~Guest70@185.6.149.218) has quit (Quit: always on top always in front)
2021-07-01 03:01:43	ayecee	but not always
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2021-07-01 03:02:34	deniska	dag: for just a cable with a controller without external power brick they're like 5 bucks
2021-07-01 03:02:49	dag	ahh nice
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2021-07-01 03:02:55	schillingklaus	not to confuse with usb ethernet bridges
2021-07-01 03:03:07	deniska	or suspension bridges
2021-07-01 03:03:20	ayecee	so confusing
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2021-07-01 03:03:55	dag	i been using computers since the 90s and learned today what sata is. ty ty
2021-07-01 03:04:28	deniska	heh, apparently newer ones usb3->sata thingies which use usb3.0 only use a single usb cable, older ones used two for power delivery
2021-07-01 03:04:31	ayecee	huh.
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2021-07-01 03:04:42	pnbeast	Kids.
2021-07-01 03:05:27	ZAJDAN	is possible via sftp(command line) set for 'put' to upload files newer/older than ?
2021-07-01 03:05:35	deniska	dag: SATA is like PATA, but serial instead of parallel :D
2021-07-01 03:05:39	ayecee	ZAJDAN: no
2021-07-01 03:05:52	deniska	ZAJDAN: you may want to use rsync instead
2021-07-01 03:06:07	ayecee	PATA wasn't called PATA before SATA was a thing.
2021-07-01 03:06:18	ZAJDAN	the ftp account doesnt allow rsync
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2021-07-01 03:06:56	ayecee	ZAJDAN: try to avoid calling it an ftp account unless you're using the ftp protocol.
2021-07-01 03:07:04	ayecee	which is different from sftp
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2021-07-01 03:07:22	dag	consumer SSDs have p/e cycles of 3k-10k so i dont see a problem with wiping it with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb. why bother with the erase feature of SSDs? also im kinda scared because people on the internet say i might brick the SSD if done wrong. also i kinda dont trust the erase feature
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2021-07-01 03:07:38	ayecee	dag: it is _way_ faster
2021-07-01 03:08:17	ayecee	like seconds instead of hours
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2021-07-01 03:09:14	orbatos_	dag, it's not *just* speed
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2021-07-01 03:09:35	orbatos_	by deliberately writing to your whole drive you are _degrading_ it
2021-07-01 03:09:44	orbatos_	that's not an issue with mechanical drives
2021-07-01 03:09:45	ayecee	yeah, it's also about avoiding write cycles, which he's already said he's not concerned about
2021-07-01 03:09:51	orbatos_	uh
2021-07-01 03:09:54	ayecee	read the text
2021-07-01 03:10:05	dag	like i said it's a non-issue with pe cycles in the thousands
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2021-07-01 03:10:26	orbatos_	whoa, well, that's not really true but, ok then
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2021-07-01 03:10:53	dag	pls elaborate. what u mean with degrade?
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2021-07-01 03:10:55	ayecee	it is true. that part is a non-issue.
2021-07-01 03:11:03	orbatos_	dag, do you know how space is allocated differently on and ssd compared with a spinning disc?
2021-07-01 03:11:25	ayecee	you, not u, please. they're picky about sms stuff here.
2021-07-01 03:11:25	dag	meh. kindof. there are blocks. and it's NANDS vs magnetic disks
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2021-07-01 03:11:42	orbatos_	ayecee, I'll be light touch
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2021-07-01 03:12:39	orbatos_	dag, in short, because it is more complicated, those blocks are allocated dynamically based on wear patterns, in other words, repeatedly writing to the same area will be interlaly distributed across the disc
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2021-07-01 03:12:46	orbatos_	internally rather
2021-07-01 03:13:07	dag	yeah that makes sense for the ssd driver to evenly use all cells
2021-07-01 03:13:15	ayecee	okay cut to the part where that's important to this situation
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2021-07-01 03:13:36	orbatos_	so, the "drive map" you see doesn't actually represent anything other than the presentation layer the drive gives you
2021-07-01 03:14:06	dag	yeah it's like virtual memory. i get it
2021-07-01 03:14:16	backleet	anyone use xmonad here, have a question
2021-07-01 03:14:25	ayecee	backleet: find out by asking that question
2021-07-01 03:14:28	orbatos_	dag, the erase functions, like trim, clear the allocation, yes, similar
2021-07-01 03:15:52	orbatos_	if you want a secure erase, many drives also offer that, but writing zeroes won't really even work as inline compression and stochiastis allocation will spread it around
2021-07-01 03:16:02	backleet	ayecee: ok, I have xmonad + polybar setup. When focusing windows with Mod+j/k firefox title doesn't get to polybar title output, the rest of the windows do. If no website is open (if it's default new tab of firefox, title works ok). It's so weird. xprop outputs firefox website title
2021-07-01 03:16:11	ayecee	backleet: not to me though
2021-07-01 03:16:31	backleet	ayecee: I know, I know )
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2021-07-01 03:17:05	backleet	ayecee: any vague idea of why it might behave that way
2021-07-01 03:17:28	ayecee	backleet: none at all
2021-07-01 03:17:33	backleet	ayecee: thanks!
2021-07-01 03:17:59	ayecee	orbatos_: it will work insofar as reading any block will return zeros
2021-07-01 03:18:33	schillingklaus	doesn't xmonad have an associated bar, xmobar or so?
2021-07-01 03:18:34	orbatos_	ayecee, dag was referring to a lack of trust in trim/etc, which wouldn't be resolved by that.
2021-07-01 03:18:55	ayecee	fair enough
2021-07-01 03:19:08	backleet	schillingklaus: yeah, I switched to polybar from xmobar
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2021-07-01 03:19:19	backleet	what is everyone's favorite colorscheme for everything?
2021-07-01 03:19:24	backleet	other than dracula/gruvbox
2021-07-01 03:19:41	ayecee	my favorite color scheme is "the default"
2021-07-01 03:19:50	ayecee	or "dark" if offered
2021-07-01 03:19:54	schillingklaus	i don't like colours and avoid them wherever possible
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2021-07-01 03:20:24	backleet	schillingklaus: I wonder if colorscheme affects productivity/tiredness
2021-07-01 03:20:29	backleet	ayecee: fair enough
2021-07-01 03:20:57	schillingklaus	there are daytime-dependemnt colour schemes
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2021-07-01 03:22:54	ayecee	crazy
2021-07-01 03:23:29	orbatos_	ayecee, ever rad that rant contained in the docs for a data recovery package on how untrustworthy drives are? It's worth the time even for fun.
2021-07-01 03:23:48	orbatos_	trying to remember which one but I'm drawing a blank
2021-07-01 03:24:24	ayecee	can't help you there. that's pretty vague.
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2021-07-01 03:26:53	schillingklaus	blue light is said to be dangerous
2021-07-01 03:27:23	Dagmar	Nah, blue light is a pushover.  It's red light that's packing a gravity knife
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2021-07-01 03:27:40	Dagmar	Red will _cut you_
2021-07-01 03:27:49	Sauvin	It'll also burn you.
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2021-07-01 03:28:30	Sauvin	Truth is, any light, visible or not, is potentially dangerous if you crank up the wattage.
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2021-07-01 03:30:54	ayecee	technically true but also way more boring
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2021-07-01 03:32:17	kurahaupo	Photons in the 10¹⁰ eV range may cause space-time anomalies
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2021-07-01 03:32:53	ayecee	what i want to know is which colors give me super powers
2021-07-01 03:32:56	Sauvin	Holy birdcrap, Batman, that's a megaBATload of Evies!
2021-07-01 03:32:57	kurahaupo	Photons in the 10¹⁰⁰ eV range may cause pocket universes to form
2021-07-01 03:32:59	Dagmar	...and lasers go "pew-pew!"
2021-07-01 03:33:51	Sauvin	Actually, being nearly deaf, what I've always wondered is if lasers that can cause heat disurbances in the air produce audible sound.
2021-07-01 03:34:21	Sauvin	The laser beams themselves might not go "pew pew", but the generators might.
2021-07-01 03:34:33	kurahaupo	Sauvin: yes, provided they're at wavelengths that are absorbed by air
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2021-07-01 03:35:04	Dagmar	There's like, nine movies where they go 'pew-pew' so it must be true
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2021-07-01 03:35:17	kurahaupo	only nine?
2021-07-01 03:35:22	ayecee	at least nine
2021-07-01 03:35:23	Sauvin	Feh. Movies. Sometimes I turn the sound OFF for a reason.
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2021-07-01 03:36:08	Dagmar	I will be interested to see if they go 'pew-pew' in Foundation, since Asimov had feelings about that kind of thing.
2021-07-01 03:36:12	borbetomagus	hey i have a noob question. i installed debian using an amd64 image on a box with a 64-bit processor, but for some reason the architecture says i686
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2021-07-01 03:36:25	Sauvin	https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/33112/pew-pew-lasers-what-would-directed-energy-weapons-actually-sound-like
2021-07-01 03:36:27	borbetomagus	is there some way i could have messed this up during the install process or what
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2021-07-01 03:36:41	ayecee	borbetomagus: what says that
2021-07-01 03:36:59	kurahaupo	borbetomagus: How are you querying the arch?
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2021-07-01 03:37:15	borbetomagus	ayecee : lscpu says architecture: i686
2021-07-01 03:37:29	ayecee	borbetomagus: what else does lscpu say
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2021-07-01 03:37:42	borbetomagus	CPU op-mode(s):      32-bit, 64-bit
2021-07-01 03:37:44	Sauvin	borbetomagus, I did that once, but other way around. At the time, I'd had a 32-bit kernel but a 64-bit userland after a supposedly automatic dist upgrade. Left me with a strange expression on my face when I couldn't figure out why I suddenly couldn't build kernel modules.
2021-07-01 03:37:48	ayecee	borbetomagus: more importantly, what does uname -a say
2021-07-01 03:38:08	borbetomagus	Linux debbie 4.19.0-17-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.19.194-2 (2021-06-21) i686 GNU/Linux
2021-07-01 03:38:26	ayecee	what image did you use to install that
2021-07-01 03:39:00	borbetomagus	debian-10.10.0-amd64-netinst.iso
2021-07-01 03:39:19	ayecee	okay, don't know how you managed that, but that's a 32-bit uname.
2021-07-01 03:39:33	ayecee	shouldn't even be possible to do that if you used that image.
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2021-07-01 03:40:14	borbetomagus	i know! i am very confused
2021-07-01 03:40:56	borbetomagus	i installed it a few days ago so i guess occam's razor is that i used a different image somehow, but that's the only one in my download history
2021-07-01 03:41:41	borbetomagus	OH wait never mind i know what happened, i ended up creating a different bootable image using unetbootin's automatic downloader, never mind carry on
2021-07-01 03:41:54	Dagmar	Correct
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2021-07-01 03:42:24	borbetomagus	oh and yup unetbootin defaults to the 32-bit image
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2021-07-01 03:51:42	Sauvin	Huh?
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2021-07-01 03:52:01	rovanion	Does anyone happen to know if the resident memory set can be seen for a cgroup split by NUMA node? memory.numa_stat only shows total, file, anon and unevictable pages where file is the vast majority of my cgroups usage. Could it be that the resident set is included in the file set?
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2021-07-01 04:10:06	Sauvin	Psi-Jack, around?
2021-07-01 04:10:42	orbatos_	Sauvin, the laser sound thing can happen, but I forget the circumstances
2021-07-01 04:11:16	Sauvin	orbatos_, if it has enough energy, it heats the air. Disturbed air causes sound.
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2021-07-01 04:13:41	orbatos_	sure, but it requires wavelengths that are absorbed quickly
2021-07-01 04:14:05	ayecee	well or sufficient power
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2021-07-01 04:15:04	ixil	I'm missing a pub key to verify a patch file with it's signature, but I've tried gpg --recv-key
2021-07-01 04:15:27	ayecee	what happened when you tried
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2021-07-01 04:16:16	ixil	it writes the RSA key used to sign it, then a key fingerprint 'no user ID' then Can't check signature: No Public key
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2021-07-01 04:16:30	ayecee	how did you try
2021-07-01 04:16:48	ixil	gpg --verfiy patch.sign patch.xz
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2021-07-01 04:16:52	ixil	verify
2021-07-01 04:16:59	ayecee	what happened when you tried to recv the key
2021-07-01 04:17:47	ixil	gpg: key 0xXYZ: no user ID : Total number processed: 1
2021-07-01 04:17:59	ayecee	have you tried a different keyserver
2021-07-01 04:18:07	ixil	I tried with the gpg.mit and openpgp keyservers but I get the same thing
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2021-07-01 04:18:12	ixil	pgp.mit sorry
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2021-07-01 04:18:27	ayecee	you'll have to find out which keyserver the author has posted their key on then
2021-07-01 04:19:20	ixil	any idea how I can find that? I browsing https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/5.11/
2021-07-01 04:19:27	ayecee	ask the author
2021-07-01 04:19:30	ixil	and the directories above
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2021-07-01 04:21:34	ixil	any idea where I find who authors those files? I feel it's all documented somewhere obvious and I'm just missing it
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2021-07-01 04:22:50	ixil	I have Linus' key
2021-07-01 04:23:22	ayecee	what's the key id
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2021-07-01 04:24:00	ayecee	the one you're trying to recv
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2021-07-01 04:24:16	ixil	57892E705233051337F6FDD105641F175712FA5B
2021-07-01 04:24:36	ayecee	that looks like a fingerprint rather than an id, where'd you get that from?
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2021-07-01 04:26:01	ixil	that's from the output of the verify command
2021-07-01 04:26:02	ixil	http://ix.io/3rD8
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2021-07-01 04:26:36	ayecee	the key id is 7B96E8162A8CF5D1
2021-07-01 04:26:40	ayecee	try receiving that instead
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2021-07-01 04:27:09	ixil	I had tried that yesterday, but I'll give it another go
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2021-07-01 04:28:10	ayecee	lots of google hits for linux-rt if you search that id
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2021-07-01 04:28:33	ixil	same problem again
2021-07-01 04:28:37	ayecee	what problem
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2021-07-01 04:28:47	ixil	no public key
2021-07-01 04:28:57	ayecee	what did you try
2021-07-01 04:29:06	DPA	Such a short ID can't possibly be secure...
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2021-07-01 04:29:44	ayecee	thanks armchair cryptographer
2021-07-01 04:29:48	ixil	same as above, gpg --recv-key 7B96E8162A8CF5D1; gpg --verify patch.sign patch.xz
2021-07-01 04:29:54	ayecee	ixil: what was the output
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2021-07-01 04:30:28	ixil	exact same as the paste above
2021-07-01 04:30:42	ixil	ix.io/3rD8
2021-07-01 04:30:53	ayecee	ixil: the paste above doesn't have the output of gpg --recv-key
2021-07-01 04:31:12	ayecee	ixil: don't bother with the --verify bit until you've actually received a key. i would think this would be obvious.
2021-07-01 04:32:24	ZAJDAN	'find -mtime -10 -print' it shows files from last 10 days correctly ..but... 'find -mtime -10 -print | tar -czf MyPackage.tar.gz --null -T - '....send into tar all
2021-07-01 04:32:37	jushur	ixil: what distro is it your using right now to do this?
2021-07-01 04:32:58	ZAJDAN	 'find -mtime -10 -print0 | tar -czf MyPackage.tar.gz --null -T - '....send into tar all
2021-07-01 04:33:14	ayecee	ZAJDAN: what does it mean "send into tar all"
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2021-07-01 04:33:50	ZAJDAN	all files ..not only from last 10 days
2021-07-01 04:33:59	ixil	ayecee: gpg: key 0x7B96E8162A8CF5D1: no user ID \n gpg: Total number processed: 1
2021-07-01 04:33:59	jushur	asking because i know of a few that been using arch as base and have a bad config ending in dns resolvs for gpg servers.
2021-07-01 04:34:22	ixil	jushur: I'm on archlinux
2021-07-01 04:34:25	jushur	not working.
2021-07-01 04:34:39	ixil	oh
2021-07-01 04:34:53	jushur	ixil: not sure then, could be related tho.
2021-07-01 04:35:01	ayecee	that's probably it
2021-07-01 04:35:21	DPA	ayecee: It's a general trough. There are certain rules of thumb which always must be true: https://riseup.net/en/security/message-security/openpgp/gpg-best-practices#dont-rely-on-the-key-id
2021-07-01 04:35:44	ayecee	thanks armchair cryptographer
2021-07-01 04:36:09	ayecee	ixil: gonna have to use a different keyserver
2021-07-01 04:36:24	ayecee	there was a list to try, let's see how easy that is to find.
2021-07-01 04:36:48	ayecee	i remember seeing that a couple days back
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2021-07-01 04:38:16	DPA	ayecee: You can send me the armchair. I'm not sure how to become a cryptographer, though.
2021-07-01 04:39:02	ayecee	ixil: try with, gpg --recv-key 7B96E8162A8CF5D1 --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com
2021-07-01 04:39:37	ixil	champion
2021-07-01 04:39:46	ayecee	DPA: aside from the amateur criticism, the more serious concern is that it sheds no light on the current problem.
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2021-07-01 04:40:13	ayecee	it's more of a "look how smart i am"
2021-07-01 04:40:38	ixil	I manually grabbed the key from openpgp before and it has something, but I guess not the pub key
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2021-07-01 04:41:04	ixil	should I add the ubuntu keyserver to my gnupg config?
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2021-07-01 04:41:45	ayecee	ixil: maybe. check arch forums for their suggested fix. this was a pretty recent thing.
2021-07-01 04:42:13	ayecee	like within the last week or so
2021-07-01 04:42:33	ixil	maybe the key just hasn't propagated yet
2021-07-01 04:42:46	DPA	ayecee: Getting a key which isn't any more trusted than the thing you want to verify won't give you any additional security. You may as well just assume it's fine.
2021-07-01 04:42:47	jushur	yeah, think they should added a post for it to mainpage. but not seen anything about it.
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2021-07-01 04:43:22	ixil	ahh, now that I use the key (in the archlinux makepkg cmd) it says the key has expired
2021-07-01 04:43:49	ayecee	DPA: trust isn't binary.
2021-07-01 04:43:59	ayecee	there are degrees of trust.
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2021-07-01 04:45:04	ixil	thanks for the help
2021-07-01 04:45:11	ayecee	:)
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2021-07-01 04:47:33	DPA	Yea, and random key from random keyserver isn't very trustworthy. Where did the id even come from, from the signature? If someone was to replace the file and the signature, they wouldn't even have to bother colliding the id, they can just upload their own key...
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2021-07-01 04:49:40	ayecee	it's fortunate that retrieving it from a keyserver is not the only way to validate a key id
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2021-07-01 04:53:44	DPA	Yes, using other means, such as meeting the signer in person, or using another trusted communication path, could make things safer. But unfortunately, people tend to be lazy nowadays.
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2021-07-01 04:54:16	ayecee	or like checking google hits for that key
2021-07-01 04:54:26	ayecee	degrees of trust
2021-07-01 04:54:40	ayecee	you don't have to meet in person and take a blood sample
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2021-07-01 05:00:28	DPA	Google will find a bad key just as easily as it finds a good one.
2021-07-01 05:01:19	ayecee	what it won't find is a history on a bad key
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2021-07-01 05:03:43	DPA	Are people looking for a history? Will all good keys have a history? And can I not sign lots of things over years with a bad key?
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2021-07-01 05:05:17	ayecee	degrees of trust. a key id that appears in relevant results over time isn't guaranteed to be good, but it is more trusted than one that has no history or a negative history.
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2021-07-01 05:05:56	ayecee	a negative history like "hey there's some jackass forging signatures with this key id"
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2021-07-01 05:08:41	DPA	I could  use keys for legit things, cultivate bad keys for later use, then swap them if they get uncovered for a still good one.
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2021-07-01 05:09:53	ayecee	enough of your crypto masturbation. it wasn't relevant to the problem and still isn't.
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2021-07-01 05:12:22	DPA	The problem being establishing trust, if the means do not lead to something more trustworthy, that very much is relevant to the problem, as it is in practice not a solution, but only gives a false impression of being one.
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2021-07-01 05:13:06	ayecee	the fact that you feel that way tells me you didn't understand the problem.
2021-07-01 05:14:11	ahri	I'm trying to diagnose an issue; I am hardening a daemon written in Java, it opens an HTTP port as root, and later uses setuid (via JNI bindings) to drop to another user. I can communicate with the daemon before dropping to a non-root user, but not after. Does this sound correct? Am I misusing the posix setuid() function? NB. I am not setting the
2021-07-01 05:14:12	ahri	setuid _bit_ on the executable, which is java in this case so that would be a very bad idea; I am calling setgid() and setuid() at runtime
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2021-07-01 05:14:53	dag	how can I make my linux act as a keyboard? i intent to bruteforce the pin of an android phone
2021-07-01 05:15:10	ayecee	ahri: communicate how?
2021-07-01 05:15:32	ahri	ayecee: with an HTTP client
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2021-07-01 05:15:49	ayecee	dag: like a usb keyboard? called "usb gadget" in kernel, and requires hardware support that isn't normally found on desktop/laptop
2021-07-01 05:16:37	ahri	I should note that the daemon is running in a Docker container, and that the logs also show "[FATAL tini (1)] Unexpected error when forwarding signal: 'Operation not permitted'" immediately after dropping privs
2021-07-01 05:16:37	dag	yeah ok
2021-07-01 05:16:47	ayecee	ahri: that doesn't sound right then. dropping to non-root user shouldn't affect that.
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2021-07-01 05:18:02	ahri	I've tried googling around and haven't worked out why tini would be complaining like this, but I've not found may people using the setgid/setuid functions and get lots of bogus hits for people using the setuid bit :(
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2021-07-01 05:18:19	ahri	*many people
2021-07-01 05:18:33	Sauvin	dag, for what reason are you trying to brute-force a password?
2021-07-01 05:18:34	tete_	hi, i try to register wineasio.dll in wine with regsrv32 but i get an error: https://paste.centos.org/view/7c2e9ae7 - running on fedora 34 with wine 6.11, anyone familiar with that?
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2021-07-01 05:18:43	DPA	Maybe there are multiple processes involved? Not all signals can be sent to a process running as root, so if one drops privileges, and it tries to send a signal to one which doesn't, that'll give an error.
2021-07-01 05:18:52	ayecee	ahri: what is it doing when it is "forwarding signal" ?
2021-07-01 05:19:12	ahri	ayecee: I'm glad that's the case - because that's my specific use-case! That's a relief that an open port should continue working after swapping user
2021-07-01 05:19:15	dag	Sauvin: my mom forgot her android pin
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2021-07-01 05:19:46	Sauvin	It might be easier just to reset it and start over.
2021-07-01 05:19:52	ayecee	dag: is this a very old android device? modern ones limit your attempts.
2021-07-01 05:20:25	dag	samsung galaxy s4. it allows 5 tries each 30s
2021-07-01 05:20:47	ayecee	i see
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2021-07-01 05:20:58	dag	(2013)
2021-07-01 05:20:58	ahri	ayecee: I'm not sure; tini comes with Docker and I'm not familiar with its inner workings, but it's described as https://github.com/krallin/tini - "A tiny but valid init for containers", it does reap zombies etc. so I imagine it will be sending signals like KILL/etc
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2021-07-01 05:21:47	ayecee	okay but it's not tini that's dropping privs, right?
2021-07-01 05:21:56	Sauvin	https://www.howtogeek.com/226942/what-to-do-if-you-forget-your-android-phone%E2%80%99s-pin-pattern-or-password/
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2021-07-01 05:24:03	ayecee	dag: a raspberry pi would have usb gadget support, if you have one of those. still don't know how you'd make it happen offhand.
2021-07-01 05:25:16	ayecee	oh neat. for better or worse, someone makes it happen here. https://randomnerdtutorials.com/raspberry-pi-zero-usb-keyboard-hid/
2021-07-01 05:25:38	ahri	ayecee: no; my understanding is that Docker is running tini, which runs my (java) program, which in turn drops to a non-root user - running `ps` confirms that `docker-init` (which apparently is `tini`) is running with pid 1, and java is running with pid 6
2021-07-01 05:26:39	DPA	Does the java process have any child processes? If so, do they all have the same user?
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2021-07-01 05:29:03	ahri	DPA: at the time I execute setgid/setuid there are no child processes, I added some debug in to run `ps -aux` after switching user, and this shows that `ps` (now a subprocess of the java process) is running as the non-root user
2021-07-01 05:29:15	ayecee	ahri: it may be easier to leave your java program unmodified, and instead use a tcp proxy like simpleproxy or socat to do the listening on port 80 bit
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2021-07-01 05:31:23	DPA	ahri: Maybe check /proc/<pid>/status. Verify that real, effective and saved uid are all the same.
2021-07-01 05:31:42	ahri	ayecee: that's what I hoped to do in the first instance, unfortunately the project requirements are such that the daemon receives bootstrapping configuration via HTTP, so it needs to be running as root in its first phase of life, then it is configured and may execute `iptables` or other code requiring root access, and then its second phase of life
2021-07-01 05:31:43	ahri	proceeds as a non-root user
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2021-07-01 05:31:55	ayecee	it looks like you can also choose to forward to a non-privileged port when you "publish" the docker port with -p
2021-07-01 05:32:13	ayecee	ah, shoot.
2021-07-01 05:32:16	blofish	I'm probably just doing something stupid here, but I can't seem to redirect the stdout of a webserver I'm running. So when I run my program, I get a log of all the GET requests made sent to stdout. When I try to redirect the stdout to a file, the file just remains empty for some reason.
2021-07-01 05:32:32	ayecee	blofish: how are you trying
2021-07-01 05:33:04	blofish	<program> > file
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2021-07-01 05:33:18	DPA	blofish: Maybe it logs to stderr? 2>file
2021-07-01 05:33:19	blofish	where i have permissions to write to the file
2021-07-01 05:33:20	ayecee	if you change > to &> does it work ?
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2021-07-01 05:33:23	blofish	no, it doesn't
2021-07-01 05:33:32	ayecee	the output still goes to the screen?
2021-07-01 05:33:44	blofish	i ran it with 2>/dev/null and the output still came to the screen
2021-07-01 05:34:12	ayecee	okay there's something missing from the description here and it's hard to guess what it is
2021-07-01 05:34:38	ayecee	if you're doing something stupid, it's at least not on the command line
2021-07-01 05:34:45	ayecee	the parts we can see anyways
2021-07-01 05:34:50	blofish	well, the webserver changes to nobody while running
2021-07-01 05:34:54	blofish	but that shouldn't matter
2021-07-01 05:35:14	ayecee	doesn't seem like something that should matter
2021-07-01 05:35:35	DPA	&> doesn't redirect stdin. Maybe it wrongly outputs to stdin? 0<>file. Or maybe it uses /dev/tty or /dev/tty0, one of those would also consider just stdin.
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2021-07-01 05:37:02	blofish	also i know it's stdout since running it with 1>/dev/null makes the output disappear
2021-07-01 05:37:45	ayecee	wait but 1>file gets no output in the file?
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2021-07-01 05:38:06	blofish	yeah
2021-07-01 05:38:10	schillingklaus	I guess that blofish is named for the encryption algorithm rather than the openbsd mascot
2021-07-01 05:38:11	blofish	no output
2021-07-01 05:38:14	ayecee	is the disk full?
2021-07-01 05:38:15	jim	DPA, that would be logging -from- stderr :) not -to-
2021-07-01 05:38:51	DPA	Oh, maybe it's line buffering stuff. I have that problem with grep sometimes. Look at the stdbuf command.
2021-07-01 05:39:01	blofish	schillingklaus: lol, it's blofish since i like blowfishes
2021-07-01 05:39:04	blofish	ayecee: no
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2021-07-01 05:39:56	DPA	stdbuf -o0 command >file
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2021-07-01 05:40:13	ayecee	probably line buffering then, yeah
2021-07-01 05:40:42	blofish	DPA: it works :D
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2021-07-01 05:41:34	blofish	exactly what does stdbuf do? I looked at the manpage but I don't really understand what a buffering operation is
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2021-07-01 05:46:48	geirha	blofish: when your program prints something with e.g. printf(), it doesn't actually get sent to stdout immediately. It gets sent to a buffer. If stdout is a tty, it typically gets flushed to stdout immediately. If stdout is not a tty, it will store it in that buffer until the buffer is full, then flush it.
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2021-07-01 05:47:22	DPA	It kind of patches the binary with ldpreload: https://github.com/wertarbyte/coreutils/blob/master/src/stdbuf.c#L190
2021-07-01 05:47:22	DPA	Many programing languages such as python, but also c standard libraries such as libc, implement buffering for files. In C, that is the stdbuf stuff for FILE* objects: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/setbuf.3.html
2021-07-01 05:47:22	DPA	The destination file type affects the kind of buffering. Things like terminal device files are line buffered by default, but files are fully buffered. So unless the buffer fills up or the program calls fflush, nothing is written.
2021-07-01 05:47:26	geirha	stdbuf alters how that buffering is done
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2021-07-01 05:49:12	schillingklaus	isn't there also kernel buffering?
2021-07-01 05:49:34	blofish	DPA: Ah, alright. Thanks :)
2021-07-01 05:49:52	ahri	DPA: sorry, I was disconnected, it looks like the process uid/gid are all matched up; Uid:        2000    2000    2000    2000, Gid:        2000    2000    2000    2000
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2021-07-01 05:55:36	DPA	schillingklaus: I think that's mostly transparent to the applications. You may want to use fsync or fdatasync in some cases, and sometimes the sync command, but usually, you won't see any side effects from the caching.
2021-07-01 05:55:36	DPA	ahri: Ok, I don't know what it could be, then.
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2021-07-01 06:05:35	DPA	Although, in theory, threads could also have different uids form their parent process. Usually, the libc takes care of changing all of them, but maybe it fails to do so here? It's unlikely, though...
2021-07-01 06:05:35	DPA	I think the best course of action at this point is to "strace -f" the binary, and check what exactly it does at the time.
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2021-07-01 06:06:44	a6a45081-2b83	using a VM for lubuntu, but I have to do xrandr everytime. Any suggestions?
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2021-07-01 06:11:52	wigums	computer broke how to fix
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2021-07-01 06:14:06	esselfe	wigums: reboot
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2021-07-01 06:27:09	jim	wigums, put tab a into slot b
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2021-07-01 06:28:55	SkunkyLaptop	jim: who makes "slot"? i know samsung makes "tab"
2021-07-01 06:29:32	jim	SkunkyLaptop, I think it was someone in Las Vegas
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2021-07-01 06:36:43	ahri	DPA: I think you're right about setuid only changing the process uid rather than all the threads, which then causes the jvm to panic when inter-thread communications break down
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2021-07-01 06:40:51	jim	SkunkyLaptop, actually the first slot machine was produced in brooklyn, new york in like 1891 (precursor to modern versions)
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2021-07-01 06:41:42	SkunkyLaptop	jim: ok, but where do I put a 'tab' in a 'slot' machine?  there's not actually any slots to put a tab into...
2021-07-01 06:42:57	jim	well cans of tab were considered substitutes for coca cola, so they can be put anywhere that would seem to accomodate it
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2021-07-01 06:51:32	SkunkyLaptop	jim: see, now you're just trying to confuse me.  you said insert tab a into slot b.  i didn't know you were talking about cans of tab. :)
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2021-07-01 06:53:25	jim	someone wanted to know how to fix something?
2021-07-01 06:54:45	SkunkyLaptop	jim: so your answer was to shove a can of soda into it?
2021-07-01 06:55:31	Haxxa	I want to setup a rsync job via cron, but I want to know if it fails. I can't use email in this context, are there any other easy solutions to notify my phone when a cron job fails?
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2021-07-01 06:55:56	jim	that would just cause the magic smoke to escape
2021-07-01 06:57:12	SkunkyLaptop	Haxxa: um.  WHY can't you use e-mail?
2021-07-01 06:58:22	ananke	email to SMS would be easiest
2021-07-01 06:58:49	Haxxa	SkunkyLaptop email is blocked in network and ports are closed
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2021-07-01 06:59:20	SkunkyLaptop	Haxxa: i see.  so what options DO you have?
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2021-07-01 07:00:41	Haxxa	literally anything else
2021-07-01 07:00:59	Haxxa	not sure what options exist, but only one port is blocked and its outbound email
2021-07-01 07:01:49	ananke	Haxxa: which port would that be? 25 or 587?
2021-07-01 07:02:14	ananke	if it's only one, use the other
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2021-07-01 07:03:07	pajus	:D
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2021-07-01 07:03:29	Haxxa	"customers will have outgoing port 25 (SMTP) blocked"
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2021-07-01 07:06:59	p0g0	Haxxa, my ISP does the same thing "in the name of security", inbound is OK, but both 25 & 587 are blocked. But for a mere $5/month, my ISP will overlook their security concerns and open those ports.  It is not about security here, it is about gouging $5/month.
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2021-07-01 07:07:18	p0g0	*are blocked outbound
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2021-07-01 07:07:52	ananke	Haxxa: consider checking 587
2021-07-01 07:07:54	koollman	or it's the tax you pay to finance dealing with spam-related troubles. I can see their point :)
2021-07-01 07:10:50	jim	some ISPs will confiscate equipment if they have to deal with heavy dos caused by the client
2021-07-01 07:11:07	p0g0	I get the spam stuff, but this ISP already has such a low reputation that outbound mail from their IP gets me tagged as spam in a lot of places... so, I am not sure that their plan is really about anything but $.  If they actually managed to clean up spam from their public IP address, I might buy into the $5.
2021-07-01 07:11:11	DrEeevil	jim: that sounds ... unlikely
2021-07-01 07:11:19	jim	so 5 bucks a month is -damn- cheap
2021-07-01 07:11:48	p0g0	jim, not really if one is only a plain old single user....
2021-07-01 07:11:56	jim	DrEeevil, a colo company I heard of did something like that, and it was specified in their contract
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2021-07-01 07:12:42	DrEeevil	jim: oh. that's quite unconventional, I guess they had some experience with troublemakers
2021-07-01 07:13:06	jim	maybe so
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2021-07-01 07:13:33	p0g0	jim, again, that ISP fails to prevent spam as is.  So the notion that locking me out of port 25 makes it better is not going to get real far.
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2021-07-01 07:14:48	p0g0	jim, the main argument for me is that if I pay the $5, I get my own IP address that is not contaminated with a bad reputation.  That might be worth it if I really had much email to run.
2021-07-01 07:15:30	jim	well mail sent from their own domain seems to me to be a part of an "internet site"
2021-07-01 07:15:54	p0g0	Yes, I agree.
2021-07-01 07:16:20	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::2) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 07:16:42	p0g0	So, if that site wasn't systematically dumped by google for having a bad reputation, I'd accept that their $5 fee was working...  it is not.
2021-07-01 07:16:56	jim	whereas if you just need internet connectivity, maybe you don't need a domain name or email to/from that domain
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2021-07-01 07:18:13	p0g0	well, I want to run my own mail server, as I have for decades. But yes, it is not a show stopper to have a lame outbound  email reputation, I can work around that.
2021-07-01 07:18:43	blofish	p0g0: same here but you have to cough up $3 for a static ip
2021-07-01 07:18:53	p0g0	I don't
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2021-07-01 07:18:54	blofish	since otherwise they'll put you behind a cgnat
2021-07-01 07:19:02	p0g0	I keep a dynamic address.
2021-07-01 07:19:20	jim	it's just that that $5 doesn't rise to the effort they have to put out to deal with dosses
2021-07-01 07:19:24	dag	is it possible to "reverse" a bloom filter? wanna see whats inside transphobic.txt here: https://github.com/shinigami-eyes/shinigami-eyes/blob/master/import-data.js
2021-07-01 07:19:30	p0g0	jim ^ yes!
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2021-07-01 07:20:47	jim	so, some ISPs specified in the contract that the client would pay for that effort
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2021-07-01 07:34:29	Helmholtz1	How to split lines in a desktop filr
2021-07-01 07:35:01	Helmholtz1	*file
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2021-07-01 07:36:02	Helmholtz1	https://dpaste.com/429YNRE2S
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2021-07-01 07:38:44	SkunkyLaptop	Helmholtz1: surround it in "s?
2021-07-01 07:39:01	jim	do you mean you want to take lines (that might be too long?) and pick a point in that line to insert a \n?
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2021-07-01 07:52:34	akik	i thought that was a guide on how to do it
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2021-07-01 08:06:13	AndroidDAW	why doesnt this work? find $FOLDER -name $NAME -exec echo { } is {} and basename is $(basename {}) \;
2021-07-01 08:06:27	AndroidDAW	as i get { } is GITHUB_ACTIONS_PREBUILD_OUT_FOLDER/macOS-latest/mainExecutable.dylib and basename is GITHUB_ACTIONS_PREBUILD_OUT_FOLDER/macOS-latest/mainExecutable.dylib
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2021-07-01 08:11:15	peetaur	AndroidDAW: find "$DIR" -name "$NAME" -exec bash -c "echo { } is \\\"{}\\\" and basename is \\\"\$(basename {})\\\"" \;
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2021-07-01 08:12:37	peetaur	AndroidDAW: first note that your "echo" is a thing like /usr/bin/echo, not the bash builtin... find won't call bash builtins
2021-07-01 08:13:06	peetaur	AndroidDAW: and then after that your $(basename {}) is not escaped so it will just run one time and that result will be passed to find... find will just see a static string and repeat it each time
2021-07-01 08:14:28	peetaur	and always quote your variables... like $DIR and $NAME
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2021-07-01 08:16:58	peetaur	the $(basename {}) just outputs "{}" so find is just doing that and not basename
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2021-07-01 08:21:39	DPA	find -exec env F={} bash -c 'echo \{\} is "$F" and basename is "$(basename "$F")"' \;
2021-07-01 08:22:37	AndroidDAW	ok, now i have this
2021-07-01 08:22:38	AndroidDAW	find $FOLDER -name $NAME -exec bash -c "DIR=\"\$(dirname {})\"; BASE=\"\$(basename {})\"; echo cd \$DIR; echo \"echo \$BASE > \$BASE.SPLIT_MARKER\"; echo split -b 1k \$BASE \$BASE.SPLIT; echo" \;
2021-07-01 08:23:34	AndroidDAW	SPLIT_FILE *
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2021-07-01 08:24:10	AndroidDAW	now i need to figure out how to encode and decode the file's stats so i can restore them...
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2021-07-01 08:30:30	DPA	some_function(){ basename "$F"; }; find -exec env F={} bash -c "$(type some_function | sed '1,3d;$d')" \;
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2021-07-01 08:33:36	kubast2	Is there some cmake commandline guide for like babies first cross compilation?
2021-07-01 08:33:48	-->	HoloIRCUser (~holoirc@31.217.33.69) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 08:33:51	kubast2	like something a 5 year old with brain damage can understand and comprehand
2021-07-01 08:34:22	kubast2	like so far I am just puzzled by this tool constantly
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2021-07-01 08:35:00	edlou	is it generally a bad idea to try to nice/renice a virtualized windows guest on a linux host or will this conflict with the hypervisor and cause some weird instabilities?
2021-07-01 08:35:15	edlou	goal: i want whats happening on the vm to be prioritized over the text editor on the actual linux host
2021-07-01 08:35:21	Thaurwylth	I have a problem where I cannot connect to any kind of wifi, and it is very likely a newer version of this problem - notice also the solution: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1230922/ubuntu-20-04-lts-intel-7260-wireless-wont-connect-to-wifi-network  However, after 5.4 this driver is part of the kernel. How can I try, say, that suggested disabling of n code network when the iwlw module doesn't exist
2021-07-01 08:35:27	Thaurwylth	separately ...
2021-07-01 08:35:29	Thaurwylth	... anymore?
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2021-07-01 08:36:01	peetaur	edlou: I would not assume it's special in any way.... I'd renice away
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2021-07-01 08:37:38	edlou	peetaur: nothing special, the vm is running a program that is fetching work
2021-07-01 08:37:56	edlou	it's a bit delayed due to lag, but i just want to make sure the actual host is still prioritizing the vm
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2021-07-01 08:38:09	edlou	ok ill read to see best way to do it
2021-07-01 08:38:18	edlou	(i know nothing of nice/renice, im a noob :D)
2021-07-01 08:38:22	peetaur	I mean virtualization... the KVM hypervisor is the kvm module+kernel and the qemu process is just a normal process you can renice
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2021-07-01 08:38:37	edlou	peetaur: anything outside/in between i can focus on?
2021-07-01 08:38:43	edlou	or is my goal somewhat negligible / unrealistic
2021-07-01 08:39:24	peetaur	the goal of doing renice to make windows consume less sounds reasonable :)
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2021-07-01 08:40:04	peetaur	make sure to also tell it to stop p2p sharing update packages and disable all the other stuff (maybe try ooshutup10 or similar) and maybe it uses less again
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2021-07-01 08:50:13	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-07-01 09:21:27	HumbleGuy	what are your thoughts on Windows Package Manager?
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2021-07-01 09:23:12	jelly	HumbleGuy, you're in #linux right now
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2021-07-01 09:23:36	mlu	HumbleGuy: you don't want to know my thoughts: they're heavily biased and partial
2021-07-01 09:24:06	jelly	congratulating a different OS for gaining something you've had for decades seems a bit weird
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2021-07-01 09:24:46	HumbleGuy	no i just wanted to know how does it compare to other os package managers
2021-07-01 09:25:00	jelly	Try It And See
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2021-07-01 09:25:22	hodapp	it's preferable to Next -> Next -> Next -> Next -> Next -> No, don't install Bonzi Buddy -> No, really don't install Bonzi Buddy -> Next -> Next -> Next -> Next -> No, don't install Bonzi Buddy -> No, don't install Derpsearch Toolderpbar -> Next -> Restart now
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2021-07-01 09:25:29	akik	HumbleGuy: it doesn't compare to linux package managers. it's mostly a download service
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2021-07-01 09:27:11	jelly	HumbleGuy, if you'd asked in #windows, I'd probably counter with, have you used chocolatey before?  ninite?
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2021-07-01 09:27:30	jelly	best compare apples and apples if possible
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2021-07-01 09:27:57	mlu	generally speaking: I find it not useful to compare package managers and more useful to compare package ecosystems
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2021-07-01 09:28:12	AndroidDAW	how can i do `split -b 1k FILE FILE.SPLIT_FILE` in powershell such that the output can simply be recombined via `cat FILE.SPLIT_FILE* > FILE`
2021-07-01 09:28:14	mlu	the package manager is just a way to get to the ecosystem
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2021-07-01 09:28:29	jelly	AndroidDAW, in powershell on linux?
2021-07-01 09:28:37	AndroidDAW	yes
2021-07-01 09:28:55	AndroidDAW	specifcally i need to split in windows powershell and then recombine in linux
2021-07-01 09:29:05	jelly	if you're on linux already, what's wrong with using split?
2021-07-01 09:29:08	jelly	oh
2021-07-01 09:29:18	jelly	ask in #powershell
2021-07-01 09:29:30	matsaman	you don't think they're compatible?
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2021-07-01 09:29:48	AndroidDAW	powershell does not have a split command
2021-07-01 09:29:51	matsaman	oh it hasn't a split, hurrr
2021-07-01 09:29:53	matsaman	Windows =P
2021-07-01 09:29:56	AndroidDAW	yup
2021-07-01 09:29:58	jelly	you're asking in the wrong place
2021-07-01 09:29:59	AndroidDAW	xP
2021-07-01 09:30:02	matsaman	they were like "omfg _power_shell, we're going to have 'grep'!"
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2021-07-01 09:30:10	AndroidDAW	lmao
2021-07-01 09:30:20	matsaman	you should probably just use a cross-platform volumed archive
2021-07-01 09:30:26	DPA	flatpack is dangerous, it takes the oversight out of the hands of distro software distributors, as less and less people bother to package apps for distros, because they can just package for flatpack, and it'll work everywhere.
2021-07-01 09:30:27	AndroidDAW	linux is like 'we already have grep plus a ton of other utilities'
2021-07-01 09:30:28	matsaman	like via 7-zip maybe
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2021-07-01 09:31:24	matsaman	like, why dupe all of _core_utils when you can merely implement 'grep'
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2021-07-01 09:31:43	matsaman	in fairness, it's amazing how much just having 'grep' makes an OS _not completely useless_
2021-07-01 09:31:57	matsaman	findstr licks
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2021-07-01 09:32:29	matsaman	probably the same genius braintrust that decided Android should only be the least useful part of GNU/Linux
2021-07-01 09:32:32	akik	AndroidDAW: https://community.idera.com/database-tools/powershell/powertips/b/tips/posts/splitting-large-files-in-smaller-parts-part-1
2021-07-01 09:33:01	AndroidDAW	matsaman: haha
2021-07-01 09:33:04	matsaman	I feel like people who run commands on Windows systems get of on typing longer, harder-to-type, more flatulent commands
2021-07-01 09:33:08	matsaman	look at that nonsense ^
2021-07-01 09:33:20	matsaman	get off*
2021-07-01 09:34:35	matsaman	christ, speaking of Windows...
2021-07-01 09:34:39	 *	matsaman reboots stupid caveman OS
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2021-07-01 09:36:29	nazz	why do linux distros modify the linux kernel.. don't they wana make their own kernels instead of changing it? or should i choose other operating systems to rely on.. i'm from a programmer's perspective
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2021-07-01 09:38:01	DrEeevil	nazz: minor disagreements on things like defaults
2021-07-01 09:38:03	nazz	i mean.. are they leaning on modifying kernel mostly, or is it not the linux idea not to modify it, etc..
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2021-07-01 09:38:18	DrEeevil	and there's the insane ones like redhat who forward-port the module api to newer versions
2021-07-01 09:38:19	greyltc	Hi. I have a usb device using the usbfs driver that streams some timing sensitive data. I'm noticing the streaming has longish breaks or pauses in it and I'm wondering if I could fix/improve that by bumping up some sort of interrupt priority. Anyone have any thoughts on how to do that?
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2021-07-01 09:39:04	greyltc	I had a look at `cat /proc/interrupts`
2021-07-01 09:39:20	greyltc	and I can see my USB interfaces are on IRQ 25
2021-07-01 09:39:33	nazz	why distro do i choose? isit between debian: ubuntu or linuxmint or debian itself, or redhat or something generally??
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2021-07-01 09:39:45	nazz	or are the other distributions famous too
2021-07-01 09:39:48	akik	greyltc: you could try testing lowlatency or realtime kernel
2021-07-01 09:39:50	nazz	unless there aren't any
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2021-07-01 09:40:49	greyltc	akik: good thought. I'll do that if there aren't any easy tweaks I can try first with a non-rt kernel
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2021-07-01 09:41:19	DrEeevil	nazz: choose whatever makes you happy
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2021-07-01 09:41:26	DrEeevil	this is very subjective :)
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2021-07-01 09:43:23	nazz	a distro is a seperate operating system i presume..
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2021-07-01 09:44:15	leftyfb	nazz: linux is not an OS. It's a kernel.
2021-07-01 09:44:37	Strike	Hi
2021-07-01 09:44:38	leftyfb	nazz: there's plenty of tutorials online to teach you what a linux kernel is an how it is used
2021-07-01 09:44:39	matsaman	sep-a-rate
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2021-07-01 09:44:49	matsaman	Strike: hiyo
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2021-07-01 09:46:02	Strike	What OS you would recommended I found Ubuntu rock is there any better/similar dist ?
2021-07-01 09:46:04	nazz	it wasn't clear or something.. i heard there are different people saying different things so i couldn't get it.. i'm thinking i just need GNU/Linux's programs and the device drivers of the kernel linux or something correct?
2021-07-01 09:46:35	nazz	unless kernel modifications of the distros are also related to other things than the device drivers
2021-07-01 09:46:55	kirk781	Strike, Ubuntu Rock?
2021-07-01 09:46:58	matsaman	Strike: Ubuntu is fine, although it's ultimately based off Debian, which is less messed up
2021-07-01 09:47:03	matsaman	'rockS'
2021-07-01 09:47:05	Strike	we are keeping call it OS not kernel lol
2021-07-01 09:47:09	kirk781	AFAIK, Ubuntu and Rock Linux are two different distros per se
2021-07-01 09:47:20	Strike	rocks*
2021-07-01 09:47:32	Strike	Typo
2021-07-01 09:47:46	BluesKaj	purist linux !
2021-07-01 09:47:52	Shaun	distro recommendations are always fun.  asbestos underpants time!
2021-07-01 09:48:09	kirk781	Assuming one can install Debian from the really painful FOSS based default ISO, it's quite good
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2021-07-01 09:48:35	Strike	I got an i3 pc its very slow need some light os/kernel.
2021-07-01 09:48:39	arcturus	go hard or go home, imho
2021-07-01 09:48:44	arcturus	its got to be arc linux
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2021-07-01 09:49:03	Strike	arch ?
2021-07-01 09:49:09	kirk781	Tiny Core Linux?
2021-07-01 09:49:14	Strike	yeah.
2021-07-01 09:49:18	matsaman	Strike: then you wouldn't want _plain_ Ubuntu
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2021-07-01 09:49:24	matsaman	tiny core linux is purposeless and silly
2021-07-01 09:49:39	kirk781	matsaman, It's technically very light weight
2021-07-01 09:49:41	matsaman	Strike: try Lubuntu, you can install it on your Ubuntu system with the lubuntu-desktop package, IIRC
2021-07-01 09:49:43	Shaun	it's a valid suggestion though.  traditionally you should receive more recommendations than there are distros.
2021-07-01 09:49:58	matsaman	kirk781: it's overly light weight, because it's overly cut down, because nobody needs that little storage usage
2021-07-01 09:50:03	arcturus	clear linux maybe
2021-07-01 09:50:11	matsaman	Shaun: no, it's a silly suggestion =P
2021-07-01 09:50:18	kirk781	Going on a branch, there exists Floppinix which fits the linux kernel in the size of a floppy disk
2021-07-01 09:50:24	Shaun	but we need to complete the list!
2021-07-01 09:50:28	matsaman	=P
2021-07-01 09:50:41	matsaman	Strike: #ubuntu can help you more with that if you'd like
2021-07-01 09:50:44	kirk781	matsaman, you clearly didn't see the IBM PC from three decades ago :p
2021-07-01 09:51:08	matsaman	sure I did, and it didn't need a distro as small as tiny core
2021-07-01 09:51:15	Strike	Thanks, I would try it because its my little brother PC and its came with a windows.
2021-07-01 09:51:29	matsaman	I admit the smallest spinner I've seen was 700MB. But again, that is small enough it wouldn't need tiny core.
2021-07-01 09:51:35	matsaman	s/small enough/"large" enough/
2021-07-01 09:51:39	arcturus	does your little brother know how to use linux
2021-07-01 09:51:41	kirk781	If installing Arch for first time, try Manjaro's default Xfce with only core apps chosen. This way, not even a Calculator app would be installed as an extra
2021-07-01 09:51:42	matsaman	not that tiny core existed
2021-07-01 09:52:04	Strike	kirk781 three decades ? is that 486
2021-07-01 09:52:11	matsaman	Strike: GNU/Linux will run much better for usre, and Lubuntu over plain Ubuntu
2021-07-01 09:52:18	kirk781	Strike, almost there :p
2021-07-01 09:52:19	Strike	it was my first PC.
2021-07-01 09:52:36	Strike	less than half pentium lol.
2021-07-01 09:52:42	matsaman	1/4 pentium
2021-07-01 09:53:07	Strike	I can take my dinner while waiting paint to save the photo.
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2021-07-01 09:54:02	matsaman	heh
2021-07-01 09:54:15	Strike	<matsaman> Strike: GNU/Linux will run much better for usre, and Lubuntu over plain Ubuntu ,  thanks!
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2021-07-01 09:54:52	jelly	Strike, "i3", why is it slow?  no SSD?  How much RAM?
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2021-07-01 09:55:56	 *	kirk781 too has no SSD
2021-07-01 09:55:58	Strike	No ssd
2021-07-01 09:56:07	Strike	4gb RAM
2021-07-01 09:56:31	matsaman	SSDs are pretty cheap these days
2021-07-01 09:56:43	jelly	mmm.  SSD would probably be more immediately visible, but also 8GB RAM would be nice
2021-07-01 09:56:43	krabador	try archlinux , if you want to learn something useful .
2021-07-01 09:56:44	matsaman	especially enough for a fully loaded GNU/Linux
2021-07-01 09:56:50	matsaman	you'd only need a 32GB
2021-07-01 09:57:03	jelly	and it doesn't really matter which distro that much
2021-07-01 09:57:32	Strike	Thats a good suggestion.
2021-07-01 09:57:37	kirk781	Psst, try Suicide Linux
2021-07-01 09:57:45	Strike	I try it on my imac its very old and now its about 3x times faster.
2021-07-01 09:57:58	kirk781	One wrong command and it rm -rf the / system
2021-07-01 09:58:19	hodapp	what if the command I was trying to type was rm -fr
2021-07-01 09:58:36	matsaman	hodapp: dunno, what if?
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2021-07-01 09:58:39	jelly	that's an unfixed bug
2021-07-01 09:58:50	Strike	suicde linux : https://headshot117.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/openbsd_hanged_tux_med2.jpg
2021-07-01 09:58:57	kirk781	If the command is not a valid command, it issues the kill option. As long as the command is technically correct and runs in the shell, it;s fine
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2021-07-01 09:59:44	Strike	thanks guys ! he need to learn bash then. :)~
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2021-07-01 10:00:10	matsaman	hodapp: you mean does it ignore parameter order? =)
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2021-07-01 10:00:45	DPA	What about: [ 1 = 0 ]
2021-07-01 10:00:45	DPA	And: if [ 1 = 0 ]; then true; fi
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2021-07-01 10:00:55	matsaman	false
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2021-07-01 10:14:31	matsaman	holy crap 20GB later...
2021-07-01 10:14:45	matsaman	14*
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2021-07-01 10:20:30	varaindemian	can I create multiple windows of chromium abd then kill only the pid of one particular window?
2021-07-01 10:20:34	varaindemian	or they all get killed?
2021-07-01 10:21:04	matsaman	varaindemian: I think you probably can
2021-07-01 10:21:22	matsaman	and even if you couldn't, you could probably use utils that grok window information to manage it still
2021-07-01 10:21:37	matsaman	like wmctrl, devilspie/2, etc.
2021-07-01 10:22:02	matsaman	varaindemian: something else you can usually do with browsers (Firefox, at least), is run them with separate profiles
2021-07-01 10:22:36	matsaman	and ... I'm pretty sure people have figured out fairly straightforward ways to run entirely separate processes of the same technical browser
2021-07-01 10:23:07	varaindemian	matsaman can I do the same thing with chromium-browser
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2021-07-01 10:24:03	matsaman	I'd be pretty surprised if there weren't tuts for it
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2021-07-01 10:25:12	varaindemian	matsaman tuts?
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2021-07-01 10:26:58	matsaman	tutorials
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2021-07-01 10:27:59	ananke	varaindemian: short answer: no. most of the windows are threads.
2021-07-01 10:28:02	varaindemian	matsaman "windowkill" closes the window but also kills the program that had the window. if that program had more than one window, they would all close
2021-07-01 10:28:02	varaindemian	maybe send the window a ctrl-w?
2021-07-01 10:28:15	varaindemian	speaking of wmctrl here
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2021-07-01 10:28:35	ananke	varaindemian: what's the actual overarching goal here?
2021-07-01 10:28:36	varaindemian	ananke short ans for my initial question?
2021-07-01 10:28:41	ananke	varaindemian: yes
2021-07-01 10:28:43	lantech19446	is anyone familiar with a cloud guru they used to be linuxacademy, wondering if they're still worth it
2021-07-01 10:29:18	varaindemian	ananke open new windows of chromium-browser on different postions on the screen and then kill only a particular window
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2021-07-01 10:29:40	ananke	varaindemian: that's means to an end, but what's the actual goal of doing it?
2021-07-01 10:29:43	varaindemian	ananke and if they are threads?
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2021-07-01 10:30:20	ananke	varaindemian: you can't kill threads, without killing the actual process.
2021-07-01 10:30:28	varaindemian	ananke see live info from the chromium windows
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2021-07-01 10:31:23	ananke	varaindemian: k, what live info? I ask, because likely there's a better way to achieve what you want, only if you actually describe what that is
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2021-07-01 10:32:38	varaindemian	ananke any info
2021-07-01 10:32:40	varaindemian	any website
2021-07-01 10:33:14	varaindemian	ananke I was not aware of this fact -> threads and processes
2021-07-01 10:33:42	varaindemian	ananke most of the windows in general including chromium-browser?
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2021-07-01 10:34:08	ananke	varaindemian: no, this has nothing to do with 'windows', rather how chromium works
2021-07-01 10:34:46	varaindemian	ananke what do you mean "most"? most of the windows are threads.
2021-07-01 10:34:51	ananke	actually, I take back what I said, I am not 100% sure separate _windows_ are threads. tabs are
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2021-07-01 10:35:09	ananke	(for chrome/chromium)
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2021-07-01 10:36:24	varaindemian	ananke then I can kill the pid :D
2021-07-01 10:37:08	ananke	try it and see
2021-07-01 10:37:20	varaindemian	how?
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2021-07-01 10:40:43	ananke	varaindemian: how what? kill
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2021-07-01 10:40:51	ananke	kill <pid>
2021-07-01 10:41:08	varaindemian	ananke grab the pid of a newly opened window
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2021-07-01 10:41:36	ananke	varaindemian: how are you 'opening
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2021-07-01 10:41:42	ananke	varaindemian: how are you 'opening' a new window?
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2021-07-01 10:53:53	fakuve	sry , im doing a ` sudo grpck` but im a bit regreting it halfway maybe i will break the system , is there a way to stop it ? atm this is the output  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Ctzy3xgFWd/
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2021-07-01 11:01:00	ThinkT510	fakuve: ctrl+c typically terminates an application. that output doesn't look good
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2021-07-01 11:07:25	jiffe	in a bash script, if I eval cd /somewhere, does this not evaluate in the shell the script is running in?
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2021-07-01 11:08:39	spacetime	What derivitives of linux are you guys running? I am running arch,xmonad
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2021-07-01 11:09:22	genoobie	Okay, I have a question.  I have a raspberry pi that I'm using to run a program to collect data (using a java based graphics program) that I want to run headless.  However, I'm not sure how to disconnect and reconnect to the same session so I can pick up where I left off.
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2021-07-01 11:09:34	jiffe	ugg seems to be something to do with the way I'm executing this :(
2021-07-01 11:10:08	genoobie	I know I need a "video" connection, (i.e. some kind of x-server / client thing).  I think putty can hande that but I'm unclear as to how to connect "back" to the place where I left off?
2021-07-01 11:10:16	genoobie	Any suggestions?
2021-07-01 11:10:18	curdlesnoot	jiffe: yes, it does. perhaps show the real command?
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2021-07-01 11:10:59	genoobie	spacetime raspbian
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2021-07-01 11:11:58	jiffe	curdlesnoot: https://pb.jiffe.com/5gL7jwwqPKWo5PJaL2dNx3
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2021-07-01 11:12:54	jiffe	I'm trying to log what I'm executing as well as both stdout and stderr from the command, and I also want stderr from the command to be displayed on console
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2021-07-01 11:13:13	genoobie	it looks like "tmux" might be what I need?
2021-07-01 11:13:23	genoobie	Would that be accurate?
2021-07-01 11:13:25	curdlesnoot	jiffe: looking
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2021-07-01 11:13:40	spacetime	I am using a triple-monitor setup with xmonad(window manager). I use "lxrandr" to set my monitor arrangement but I have to do it EVERY time I start my OS up(like I have to open lxrandr and arrange my monitors). I even click the save button but it still resets whenever I rebbot my OS. Is there a way to make the saving work or is there a command of some sort that I can put in my xmonad.hs(autostart)?
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2021-07-01 11:15:17	curdlesnoot	jiffe: it's riddled with quoting issues. what's the minimum target version of bash for you?
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2021-07-01 11:16:12	jiffe	curdlesnoot: GNU bash, version 3.2.25
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2021-07-01 11:19:14	ananke	genoobie: RDP or x2go
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2021-07-01 11:20:06	ananke	genoobie: I assume by 'graphics program' implies this requires actual X11
2021-07-01 11:20:26	ignapk	laptop started making rattling clicking noises, quickly powered off and booted from USB without the noise, so I presume it's the hard drive, gnome disks smart data and self - tests are okay, what other Linux tool can I use to diagnose?
2021-07-01 11:20:50	drip	genoobie: i use Xvnc on raspbian to have a persistent desktop environment
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2021-07-01 11:21:53	ananke	ignapk: smartctl already covers that.
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2021-07-01 11:28:20	curdlesnoot	jiffe: untested, but should do what you expect: https://termbin.com/7juk
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2021-07-01 11:28:59	ignapk	ananke I understand correctly that I can use the foreground mode -C when I boot off usb and not the hard drive itself?
2021-07-01 11:29:09	akik	i have a problem in a gitea systemd container that systemd-logind leaves ssh session in state=closing after the connection is done. it removes some sessions ok but some are left behind
2021-07-01 11:29:42	akik	i've found many bug reports about this, but no solution
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2021-07-01 11:30:31	genoobie	drip thank you!
2021-07-01 11:31:01	uwharrie	that's going to display both stdout and stderr. If I'm understanding the request properly, you'll likely need to duplicate stderr to a new fd, merge original stderr and stdout to dump to the log file, then dump the duplicated stderr to stdout
2021-07-01 11:31:06	akik	https://pastebin.com/raw/KFuQjyT8
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2021-07-01 11:31:38	genoobie	ananke I don't think it needs X11...it's java (maybe GTK) based?
2021-07-01 11:31:49	ignapk	does this smartctl output look like a dying hard drive? https://paste.rs/yPX
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2021-07-01 11:32:07	genoobie	what about drip's suggestion of "xvnc" to have a persistent desktop?
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2021-07-01 11:32:43	jiffe	curdlesnoot: no change, pwd still shows /root not /root/.local
2021-07-01 11:32:49	akik	genoobie: x2go or xpra does that (x11 sessions)
2021-07-01 11:33:04	curdlesnoot	jiffe: there's another thing you should consider. for "simple commands" - to use the formal term - that don't rely on any special bash syntax, you don't even need eval. anyway, I'll look at the issue you just mentioned first.
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2021-07-01 11:33:10	genoobie	so is that the lightest weight connection?
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2021-07-01 11:33:26	rapha	hi all
2021-07-01 11:33:28	drip	yeah i just use vnc because im using an ipad to connect, but rdp would probably work better if you use a windows client
2021-07-01 11:33:45	genoobie	okay RDP.
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2021-07-01 11:33:53	rapha	in `find . -type f -name Rakefile -exec grep split {} \;` is there a way to ask find to pls tell me the NAME of the file before running the command in exec?
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2021-07-01 11:34:10	genoobie	so I can start a program, disconnect and then reconnect and it will still be running?
2021-07-01 11:34:16	uwharrie	rapha: add a -print statement
2021-07-01 11:34:20	genoobie	so basically like "remote desktop"
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2021-07-01 11:34:33	rapha	thx uwharrie
2021-07-01 11:34:35	genoobie	and that session will stay persistent?
2021-07-01 11:34:53	genoobie	I mean I can reconnect to that "session"?
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2021-07-01 11:35:14	genoobie	hmm...because I start the program via CLI
2021-07-01 11:35:35	genoobie	so I don't think I'm running a desktop on raspbian (too resource intensive)
2021-07-01 11:35:57	curdlesnoot	jiffe: it's easily explained. you have a pipeline in the LOGCMD function. the pipeline has two parts, one which runs eval, and the other of which runs tee. both of these commands will executed in two distinct subshells. in the first subshell, cd command is carried out, after which the subshell in question dies. the current working directory of the parent shell remains the same.
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2021-07-01 11:36:20	curdlesnoot	in fact, the current working directory of the parent shell never changes.
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2021-07-01 11:37:24	jiffe	is there a way around that?
2021-07-01 11:37:48	jiffe	while still allowing me to log and print the same way?
2021-07-01 11:38:03	akik	genoobie: do you need to use the java app gui?
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2021-07-01 11:38:57	curdlesnoot	jiffe: there are some alternative approaches that could be taken, yes.
2021-07-01 11:39:50	genoobie	akik yes
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2021-07-01 11:40:01	xx	I want to do animations in Blender but my PC is not very fast. Can I somehow rent some cloud computing power to do it for me? Or are those things only for scientific research or simple commandline programs?
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2021-07-01 11:40:41	curdlesnoot	jiffe: I'm just trying to think what's definitely possible with 3.2. that's a pretty low ar.
2021-07-01 11:40:44	curdlesnoot	bar*
2021-07-01 11:40:46	akik	genoobie: x2go has a raspbian version so you could try that
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2021-07-01 11:41:48	genoobie	so I basically ssh (using some kind of "x") run this program via CLI and I get a nice GUI.  x2go will allow me to reconnect to that GUI?
2021-07-01 11:42:18	genoobie	this is being run from a windows machine btw.
2021-07-01 11:42:24	genoobie	I mean the remote machine is windows.
2021-07-01 11:42:46	jiffe	curdlesnoot: yeah I really wish we'd get off this but we have some machines that will definitely be sticking around with rhel5 for the next 4 years
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2021-07-01 11:50:27	curdlesnoot	jiffe: I don't have 3.2 handy right now but I think this should be compatible: https://termbin.com/mdc2
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2021-07-01 11:51:13	ananke	genoobie: yes, that's why you were suggested rdp or x2go, as both provide you that functionality
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2021-07-01 11:51:48	ananke	genoobie: and if the host system is windows, then RDP is your best bet
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2021-07-01 11:53:52	randomuser	Hey, how to test if a variable is set in POSIX shell?
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2021-07-01 11:55:33	jiffe	curdlesnoot: cool that does seem to work, what is asyncronous here?
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2021-07-01 11:56:03	uwharrie	randomuser: one way is `[ -n "$var" ]`
2021-07-01 11:56:04	curdlesnoot	randomuser: [ "${var+defined}" ]. the choice of "defined" as a string is arbitrary. if, on the other hand, you only care whether the value is non-empty, [ "$var" ] is fine.
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2021-07-01 11:56:30	randomuser	Ok, thanks!
2021-07-01 11:56:33	curdlesnoot	jiffe: the >(process substitution)
2021-07-01 11:56:46	Guest84	uname -r
2021-07-01 11:56:59	Guest84	5.12.14-g8fe26ea89d9c
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2021-07-01 11:57:10	Guest84	why does it show -g8fe26ea89d9c
2021-07-01 11:57:38	matsaman	Guest84: some downstream/distro-level build hash
2021-07-01 11:57:41	ayecee	something added by whatever build system built it, probably a git commit
2021-07-01 11:57:46	matsaman	probably
2021-07-01 11:57:46	curdlesnoot	jiffe: if you're happy with this solution, you could actually do away with exec and just move the process substitution down for the scope of the expansion of "$@". where exec is really useful is if you want to change the state of a file descriptor in such a way that it persists beyond just one command.
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2021-07-01 11:58:39	Guest84	matsaman how do i remove it?
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2021-07-01 11:59:09	jiffe	curdlesnoot: LOGCMD seems to print stdout to console here too though
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2021-07-01 11:59:24	ayecee	why would you remove it
2021-07-01 11:59:38	Guest84	bcs problematic
2021-07-01 11:59:41	ayecee	why
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2021-07-01 11:59:47	curdlesnoot	jiffe: oh. what's the intent? no output to the tty at all?
2021-07-01 11:59:50	Guest84	i applied some patch to my kernel
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2021-07-01 11:59:59	Guest84	some stupid patch included that thing
2021-07-01 12:00:03	jiffe	curdlesnoot: only stderr to console, stdout and stderr to file
2021-07-01 12:00:07	Guest84	need to find out now. lol
2021-07-01 12:00:14	ayecee	Guest84: what problem would you solve by removing it
2021-07-01 12:00:16	curdlesnoot	jiffe: ah.
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2021-07-01 12:01:43	AppAraat[m]	hi, I'm trying to connect to my Pi ZW via USB serial cable. I did `sudo screen /dev/ttyUSB0` as well as `sudo minicom -D /dev/ttyUSB0`. I even tried specifying the baud rate, but nothing appears as the Pi boots, despite having `enable_uart=1` in /boot/config.txt - What else can I try?
2021-07-01 12:02:11	ayecee	what doe enable_uart=1 do
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2021-07-01 12:02:27	matsaman	Guest84: you can build your own kernel if you really want to, but for this purpose it's truly a waste of time most likely
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2021-07-01 12:03:47	ayecee	AppAraat[m]: it sounds like something that would enable the uart but not enable a serial console
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2021-07-01 12:04:59	ayecee	ah, looks like it does do that
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2021-07-01 12:06:03	AppAraat[m]	ayecee:  yeah `enable_uart=1` is boot-specific option for the pi to enable UART serial
2021-07-01 12:06:11	AppAraat[m]	https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/config-txt/boot.md
2021-07-01 12:06:15	ayecee	right but also to enable serial console
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2021-07-01 12:06:53	AppAraat[m]	oh I thought those were one and the same thing
2021-07-01 12:07:11	ayecee	heh, this page doesn't have enable_uart on it
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2021-07-01 12:07:57	AppAraat[m]	yeah was about to say lol
2021-07-01 12:08:01	curdlesnoot	jiffe: how about this: https://termbin.com/d1e7
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2021-07-01 12:08:24	curdlesnoot	jiffe: sorry, that should be "local stderr" but anyway.
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2021-07-01 12:09:32	AppAraat[m]	"The default UART on the Pi 3 and Pi Zero is UART1 (ttyS0 in Linux), and its clock is the core VPU clock - at least 250MHz." - which is weird since attaching the USB serial adapter to my laptop resulted in: `kernel: [3488123.329520] usb 1-1.2: cp210x converter now attached to ttyUSB0`
2021-07-01 12:09:36	b0rf	Anyone seen this:
2021-07-01 12:09:37	b0rf	https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/18/153
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2021-07-01 12:10:36	AppAraat[m]	b0rf: I'm pretty sure, yeah.
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2021-07-01 12:11:01	jiffe	curdlesnoot: no dice, I don't see stderr in the file and cd is not working correctly now
2021-07-01 12:11:07	ayecee	AppAraat[m]: ttyS0 is how it would appear on the pi. that message is how your usb-serial converter appears on your laptop.
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2021-07-01 12:11:16	ayecee	AppAraat[m]: they are not the same piece of hardware.
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2021-07-01 12:11:45	curdlesnoot	jiffe: I do see stderr in the file but I just realised I made a dumb mistake.
2021-07-01 12:11:56	AppAraat[m]	oh ok
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2021-07-01 12:13:43	blackgatonegro	Hello people
2021-07-01 12:13:51	ayecee	like the uart is part of a chip on the pi
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2021-07-01 12:14:58	alex3	hi mates. Im having problem: im trying to use netcat tool with termbin service. And the output error is: Invalid SSH identification string.
2021-07-01 12:15:08	alex3	Is this something on my end configuration ?
2021-07-01 12:15:21	ayecee	yes
2021-07-01 12:15:24	blackgatonegro	alex3 are you sure all the packages are installed?
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2021-07-01 12:15:46	ayecee	what packages
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2021-07-01 12:16:39	ayecee	alex3: netcat doesn't really have a configuration per se, so it's probably something in the way you're using it
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2021-07-01 12:16:54	ayecee	which we can't see from here
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2021-07-01 12:17:11	alex3	so I just type cat myfile | nc termbin.com 9999
2021-07-01 12:17:17	alex3	as per example on their site.
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2021-07-01 12:17:55	ayecee	i can't see how you'd get that error from that command, so i suspect the command is different
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2021-07-01 12:18:12	AppAraat[m]	I'd like to know how SSH got involved in all of that
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2021-07-01 12:18:44	blackgatonegro	If you get a SSH error then maybe that needs to be configured or something.
2021-07-01 12:18:47	ayecee	what it looks like is netcat connecting to an ssh port
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2021-07-01 12:18:52	alex3	SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_8.3
2021-07-01 12:18:54	alex3	Invalid SSH identification string.
2021-07-01 12:18:56	alex3	Ncat: Connection reset by peer.
2021-07-01 12:18:58	alex3	this is like full output
2021-07-01 12:19:04	ayecee	alex3: what was the full input
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2021-07-01 12:19:12	ayecee	what was the command
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2021-07-01 12:19:54	alex3	min
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2021-07-01 12:20:03	ayecee	take yer time, i'm hourly
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2021-07-01 12:20:30	koala_man	worked for me
2021-07-01 12:20:37	alex3	haha
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2021-07-01 12:25:03	alex3	ayecee: echo test | nc 5.39.93.71 9999
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2021-07-01 12:25:16	ayecee	that doesn't look like termbin
2021-07-01 12:25:31	alex3	nice ;-)
2021-07-01 12:25:34	ayecee	what is 5.39.93.71
2021-07-01 12:25:49	geirha	it's termbin.com ^^
2021-07-01 12:25:55	alex3	it's what nslookup gave me
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2021-07-01 12:26:04	ayecee	why are you using the ip instead of the name
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2021-07-01 12:26:19	alex3	just tried . I use termbin.com also the same error
2021-07-01 12:26:23	geirha	so do you have a termbin.com entry in you /etc/hosts or something perhaps? pointing to a different ip
2021-07-01 12:26:27	alex3	so seems something on my end and my network
2021-07-01 12:26:42	ayecee	it's definitely something on your end. it's hard to imagine what.
2021-07-01 12:27:02	geirha	and do you happen to run ssh on port 9999?
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2021-07-01 12:27:45	HumbleGuy	what is the cause of this error https://dpaste.org/RQdX#L when running a steam game?
2021-07-01 12:27:47	alex3	yes it seems like
2021-07-01 12:27:47	HumbleGuy	i am on gentoo
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2021-07-01 12:28:37	alex3	thanks. sorry. I will check whats wrong on my end.
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2021-07-01 12:30:31	ayecee	the gameoverlayrenderer message is apparently normal
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2021-07-01 12:30:50	ayecee	so, there's not really an error to work with here
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2021-07-01 12:31:26	HumbleGuy	then how do i degub this problem?
2021-07-01 12:31:36	HumbleGuy	the steam client runs just fine
2021-07-01 12:31:42	ayecee	well first describe the problem
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2021-07-01 12:32:04	HumbleGuy	everything is fine, but when i want to play a game, it doesnt do anything
2021-07-01 12:32:04	ayecee	re gameoverlayrenderer message, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Steam/Troubleshooting#Wrong_ELF_class
2021-07-01 12:32:15	ayecee	what happens when you try
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2021-07-01 12:32:58	ayecee	what are the steps between you wanting to play a game and it doing nothing
2021-07-01 12:33:10	ayecee	also what does doing nothing look like
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2021-07-01 12:34:31	HumbleGuy	i hit play, a little pop-up message show up says that the game is opening (classic steam), then the screen looks like is being adjusted for the game, but then it goes back to normal and nothing
2021-07-01 12:34:47	HumbleGuy	the button goes from green to blue to green
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2021-07-01 12:37:20	ayecee	that's a very good description. no particular solution comes to mind. if the game itself has some sort of logging, it might help to enable that. other than that, google for other people reporting similar problem with this game, i guess.
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2021-07-01 12:38:49	ayecee	like, from that log, it looks like the game launches and then exits normally
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2021-07-01 12:39:19	curdlesnoot	jiffe: sorry, I got distracted.
2021-07-01 12:40:05	HumbleGuy	maybe its a problem with the game itself?
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2021-07-01 12:40:48	ayecee	could be, sure
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2021-07-01 12:41:24	ayecee	you can have steam verify the game files, i guess
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2021-07-01 12:41:33	curdlesnoot	jiffe: well, I had to rethink the approach and concluded that using a tempfile is the simplest thing to do. try this: https://termbin.com/9e0r
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2021-07-01 12:42:07	AppAraat[m]	ayecee: Apparently those config.txt params are documented here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/device-tree.md#part4.6
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2021-07-01 12:42:55	drip	uhmbleguy: since that error is when its trying to load the overlay, try disabling the steam overlay in the game properties
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2021-07-01 12:45:45	HumbleGuy	drip, still the same
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2021-07-01 12:46:32	curdlesnoot	jiffe: (because command substitution just reintroduces the original problem of invoking a subshell)
2021-07-01 12:46:36	ayecee	that steam troubleshooting link above has other sections too, that may help
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2021-07-01 12:47:09	ayecee	like there's one that says multiple monitor setups may be a problem with nvidia gpu
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2021-07-01 12:50:01	ayecee	heh, which just seems like such an nvidia problem to have
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2021-07-01 12:51:15	schillingklaus	nvidia is one problem
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2021-07-01 12:51:27	VMGuy23	my home folder is taking up almost 140GB
2021-07-01 12:51:35	VMGuy23	how do i reduce that
2021-07-01 12:51:40	ayecee	delete files
2021-07-01 12:51:46	peetaur	VMGuy23: ncdu -x /home/yourhome/
2021-07-01 12:52:22	VMGuy23	wait im confused
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2021-07-01 12:52:27	peetaur	can also compress files... some logs can be bloated and compress really well, and maybe you keep them for audit trails or whatever
2021-07-01 12:52:46	ayecee	your confusion is confusing me. it's spreading!
2021-07-01 12:52:55	peetaur	oh no, you too?
2021-07-01 12:53:08	VMGuy23	it told me to run "sudo apt install ncdu" but itsaid the package wasn't found when i tried installing
2021-07-01 12:53:15	VMGuy23	*it said
2021-07-01 12:53:29	ayecee	what else did it say
2021-07-01 12:53:44	VMGuy23	it just said that the package was not found
2021-07-01 12:53:50	peetaur	VMGuy23: if install doesn't work, do update first. It's possible the version it looked for doesn't exist, but a new one does.
2021-07-01 12:53:51	ayecee	no it said more than that
2021-07-01 12:53:55	VMGuy23	now its working
2021-07-01 12:53:56	peetaur	`apt-get update`
2021-07-01 12:54:04	VMGuy23	i did apt upate
2021-07-01 12:54:16	VMGuy23	i never use apt-get, i always use apt
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2021-07-01 12:54:30	ayecee	neat
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2021-07-01 12:55:10	VMGuy23	ncdu isn't useful, got Disk Usage Analyser already
2021-07-01 12:55:23	ayecee	okay maybe use it
2021-07-01 12:55:35	peetaur	and did you look at what's using the space and decide whether to keep it all?
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2021-07-01 12:56:03	firepup	VMGuy23 you can also have a look at whether you have unused dependencies.
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2021-07-01 12:56:16	VMGuy23	I ran BleachBit, both as root and not
2021-07-01 12:56:18	ayecee	dependencies aren't installed in your home directory
2021-07-01 12:56:41	VMGuy23	as root
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2021-07-01 12:57:46	ayecee	i don't know what bleachbit is or what it does
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2021-07-01 12:57:52	ayecee	but apparently it doesn't do what you need
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2021-07-01 12:59:37	firepup	bleachbit doesn't delete packages
2021-07-01 12:59:59	ayecee	packages aren't installed in your home directory either
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2021-07-01 13:08:03	VMGuy23	im talking about my home dir
2021-07-01 13:09:19	ananke	and what does the suggested `ncdu -x ~/` show?
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2021-07-01 13:10:25	VMGuy23	i wont be able t
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2021-07-01 13:10:34	VMGuy23	*to send output here
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2021-07-01 13:11:09	VMGuy23	Biggest thing is VMWare, next biggest is 3.3GB
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2021-07-01 13:11:36	ayecee	good place to start
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2021-07-01 13:12:28	ayecee	vm disk images take a lot of space
2021-07-01 13:12:39	msiism	3.3GB… Probably a HD version of Spaceballs.
2021-07-01 13:13:24	ayecee	could there be such a thing?
2021-07-01 13:13:40	<--	treethought (treethou@138.68.49.251) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-01 13:13:42	firepup	spaceball? never heard of it
2021-07-01 13:13:47	msiism	What else would it be?
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2021-07-01 13:13:53	ayecee	true
2021-07-01 13:13:55	firepup	a half failed gcc build maybe
2021-07-01 13:14:00	VMGuy23	a collection of random .mp4s
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2021-07-01 13:14:11	ayecee	is one of them an hd version of spaceballs?
2021-07-01 13:14:14	VMGuy23	no
2021-07-01 13:14:22	ayecee	boo
2021-07-01 13:14:29	 *	msiism is sorry to hear that.
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2021-07-01 13:18:34	ananke	VMGuy23-: well then, start prunning
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2021-07-01 13:37:55	sudomannn	how is it that it wont list the group but tells me it exists https://dpaste.org/PEED
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2021-07-01 13:38:28	themachine	sudomannn: groups just shows the groups you are a part of
2021-07-01 13:38:39	sudomannn	oh, thanks
2021-07-01 13:39:14	themachine	if you want to add yourself to that group then 'usermod -a -G docker sudomann'
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2021-07-01 13:39:26	curdlesnoot	or gpasswd -a sudomann docker
2021-07-01 13:39:41	sudomannn	jeez
2021-07-01 13:39:47	sudomannn	why is linux like this
2021-07-01 13:40:04	ayecee	it didn't get like this overnight. it took years of evolution.
2021-07-01 13:40:30	ayecee	but also groupadd adds groups, the way useradd adds users
2021-07-01 13:40:34	themachine	or adduser sudomann docker
2021-07-01 13:40:50	ayecee	groupadd doesn't add users to groups
2021-07-01 13:41:22	themachine	but adduser adds users to groups!
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2021-07-01 13:42:28	ayecee	sure, because group membership is a property of the user
2021-07-01 13:43:05	ayecee	though i can see how one might think that user membership is a property of a group, and that could cause confusion
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2021-07-01 13:44:06	ayecee	maybe even this confusion
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2021-07-01 13:46:17	shibboleth	so, i'm faced with this weird issue. i have two identical boxes, both have asus z87-a mobos, both have i7 4771 cpus, everything is identical save for the serial number of each component. after a (security) update to grub at the beginning of May this year the second box no longer boots. i get bios post, i get the grub menu, but as i press enter on a menu item or autoselection times out i just get a black screen
2021-07-01 13:47:02	msiism	How was that security update applied? And what distribution is this?
2021-07-01 13:47:06	shibboleth	if i pull the ssd and restore the previous .efi binaries in /boot/efi it's working again
2021-07-01 13:47:07	themachine	shibboleth: remove the quiet flag and see what is happening
2021-07-01 13:47:14	themachine	oh
2021-07-01 13:47:16	shibboleth	ubuntu bionic
2021-07-01 13:47:19	shibboleth	i have
2021-07-01 13:47:43	shibboleth	how can i debug this issue? the black screen isn't giving me much to go on
2021-07-01 13:47:47	sudomannn	after running `sudo adduser sudomann docker
2021-07-01 13:47:47	sudomannn	` listing my groups still does not show docker
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2021-07-01 13:47:55	themachine	sudomannn: log out and log back in
2021-07-01 13:47:58	sudomannn	the command reported that i was added succeessfuly tho
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2021-07-01 13:48:03	sudomannn	oh
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2021-07-01 13:48:19	shibboleth	if i move the drive from the non-working box to the other box, boots fine
2021-07-01 13:48:26	sudomannn	i tried reloading with `source ~/.bashrc`
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2021-07-01 13:48:34	themachine	sudomannn: well you need to log out and log back in
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2021-07-01 13:48:46	sudomannn	ouch i see
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2021-07-01 13:50:29	shibboleth	ofc, windows, bsd, all boot fine, but for some reason grub now borks loading the kernel/initramfs
2021-07-01 13:50:31	shibboleth	https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/grub2/grub2_2.02-2ubuntu8.23/changelog
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2021-07-01 13:50:54	shibboleth	2.02-2ubuntu8.21 is working fine, 2.02-2ubuntu8.23 is not
2021-07-01 13:51:03	ayecee	hate it when that happens
2021-07-01 13:51:16	shibboleth	well, how can i debug this?
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2021-07-01 13:51:29	ayecee	get the source packages for the respective versions and see what changed
2021-07-01 13:52:10	ayecee	it's the same version of grub, so the difference will be in the patches that ubuntu applies
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2021-07-01 13:52:16	shibboleth	again: these are two identical boxes. had it not been for this i'd have suspected hw failure
2021-07-01 13:52:30	ayecee	yes, i got that
2021-07-01 13:52:36	uwharrie	are the system firmware/bios settings the same? is everything else plugged into the board the same?
2021-07-01 13:52:37	Eryn_FL	hey guys whats the service called where it serves up your images faster then your core servers?
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2021-07-01 13:52:40	ayecee	despite appearances, they are apparently not identical
2021-07-01 13:52:41	Eryn_FL	aws has one
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2021-07-01 13:52:44	shibboleth	but the issue follows both this particular box *and* grub version :)
2021-07-01 13:52:59	uwharrie	Eryn_FL: CDN?
2021-07-01 13:53:03	ayecee	Eryn_FL: like, cloudflare?
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2021-07-01 13:53:28	ayecee	shibboleth: this is an exciting but inconvenient opportunity to discover how these machines differ!
2021-07-01 13:53:44	shibboleth	well, diffing efivars
2021-07-01 13:54:00	firepup	anything else?
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2021-07-01 13:54:17	ayecee	quite often hardware of the same make and model can have different components, depending on what was available during manufacture
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2021-07-01 13:54:37	Eryn_FL	yeah
2021-07-01 13:54:38	Eryn_FL	cdn
2021-07-01 13:54:39	uwharrie	or different firmware versions
2021-07-01 13:54:40	Eryn_FL	ty
2021-07-01 13:54:47	shibboleth	same bios, same me fw
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2021-07-01 13:55:44	shibboleth	isn't there a way to raise grub "debug level", perhaps glean some more info?
2021-07-01 13:55:58	firepup	there isn't a point if you cant see the input anyway
2021-07-01 13:56:01	firepup	output*
2021-07-01 13:56:26	ayecee	shibboleth: probably, but wouldn't it be easier to see what changed between those versions first?
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2021-07-01 13:56:47	uwharrie	the board have a serial port you could send the console to?
2021-07-01 13:56:57	ayecee	when you're looking for a needle in a haystack, it's nice to know which haystack to start on
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2021-07-01 13:58:02	jiffe	curdlesnoot: cool that does work, interestingly my way of issuing something to stderr was by using `logger -s text` which still doesn't work, but your `cd nonexistant` does
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2021-07-01 13:59:10	curdlesnoot	jiffe: hmm. it should. you mean, like LOCMD logger -s text?
2021-07-01 13:59:15	curdlesnoot	LOGCMD*
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2021-07-01 14:00:27	curdlesnoot	jiffe: I see what you mean. that's strange.
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2021-07-01 14:01:18	curdlesnoot	jiffe: oh, actually, no, it's not. it's because logger -s test doesn't fail. its exit status value is 0.
2021-07-01 14:01:41	curdlesnoot	jiffe: therefore, "if" doesn't proceed to execute tee to convey stderr.
2021-07-01 14:02:21	curdlesnoot	jiffe: it could be made unconditional, if that's what you want.
2021-07-01 14:02:35	earendel	coedcherry?
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2021-07-01 14:05:11	jiffe	curdlesnoot: gotcha, yeah I think it makes sense to push stderr out unconditionally
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2021-07-01 14:07:49	curdlesnoot	jiffe: https://termbin.com/hr9j
2021-07-01 14:07:51	sudomannn	who else is being battered by this rain on the east coast
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2021-07-01 14:09:56	earendel	icebears.
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2021-07-01 14:10:58	caterfxo	a greater number of targetable assets available for Russia's local monitoring teams?
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2021-07-01 14:12:24	curdlesnoot	jiffe: or, perhaps this, which doesn't lose the exit status value of the command: https://termbin.com/a64gy
2021-07-01 14:12:26	caterfxo	sry wrong chan
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2021-07-01 14:14:21	msiism	What does it mean to sry? What's a chan?
2021-07-01 14:14:36	firepup	it means sorry
2021-07-01 14:14:39	firepup	and chan is channel
2021-07-01 14:14:54	firepup	and caterfxo the rule is no sms
2021-07-01 14:15:24	 *	msiism giggles into his exquisite glass of drink.
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2021-07-01 14:15:47	 *	akik glances into the glass and what does he see?
2021-07-01 14:15:57	Kyv	have a cigar, you're gonna go far.
2021-07-01 14:16:11	d0rm0us3	Pink Floyd.
2021-07-01 14:16:14	msiism	Kyv: Is that a Marx quote?
2021-07-01 14:16:54	d0rm0us3	From iirc "Wish you were here"
2021-07-01 14:16:57	akik	"have a cigar, you're gonna go far." --Kyv, 2021
2021-07-01 14:17:15	Kyv	yes, Pink Marx
2021-07-01 14:17:58	<--	apn_ (~apn@207.45.166.14) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-01 14:18:05	 *	msiism makes a note.
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2021-07-01 14:19:32	 *	kfrench goes too far.
2021-07-01 14:20:15	Kyv	I keep forgetting to ask which one is Pink.
2021-07-01 14:20:24	 *	d0rm0us3 chuckles
2021-07-01 14:20:49	caterfxo	oh, right. darn it. sorry about that
2021-07-01 14:20:56	jiffe	curdlesnoot: yup that works thanks
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2021-07-01 14:42:17	JeffATL	If i'm seeing a script file where variable names are followed by ".$$" i.e., wc -l foo.$$ > bar.$$ - what's going on there? Is that even bash or it is some other shell?
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2021-07-01 14:42:57	ayecee	is there a shebang on the first line of the script
2021-07-01 14:43:24	ayecee	oh, that's bash. $$ is the current pid, i think
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2021-07-01 14:43:35	PaulFertser	JeffATL: see special parameters in "man bash"
2021-07-01 14:43:38	JeffATL	ayecee: good question. no, no shebang is present
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2021-07-01 14:43:59	ayecee	probably a way to generate a relatively unique filename
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2021-07-01 14:44:06	ignapk	what does this smart self test error tell me? https://paste.rs/YrX
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2021-07-01 14:44:19	ignapk	short and con tests passed but extended failed
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2021-07-01 14:44:35	ayecee	read failure at that sector
2021-07-01 14:44:41	ignapk	done after disk started making rattling clicking sounds and quickly booted from usb
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2021-07-01 14:44:44	PaulFertser	ignapk: you can do smartctl -a and see the error log
2021-07-01 14:44:50	ignapk	Ok
2021-07-01 14:44:57	PaulFertser	ignapk: if the disk is making noises then you shouldn't be doing the tests.
2021-07-01 14:44:59	ayecee	you done got yourself a damaged disk
2021-07-01 14:45:10	PaulFertser	ignapk: you should just copy everything you can from it.
2021-07-01 14:45:17	ayecee	probably not going to make things worse at this point
2021-07-01 14:45:20	PaulFertser	ignapk: with dd_rescue or ddrescue
2021-07-01 14:45:21	ignapk	https://paste.rs/naT
2021-07-01 14:45:32	ignapk	ok thanks
2021-07-01 14:45:55	ignapk	Can I backup separate partitions or only entire disk?
2021-07-01 14:46:05	PaulFertser	ignapk: professional tools might be even better, they do a real quick overal scan and then read only the unaffected areas.
2021-07-01 14:46:09	ignapk	And I shouldn't mount it to manually copy files I guess
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2021-07-01 14:46:29	PaulFertser	ignapk: you can try backing up partitions but with ddrescue but even that is suboptimal if the data is important.
2021-07-01 14:46:40	ayecee	ignapk: you can back up separate partitions, but it's the kind of question where, if you have to ask, you should back up the whole disk to take the guesswork out of it.
2021-07-01 14:46:52	ayecee	it's a bad time to guess wrong.
2021-07-01 14:47:08	ignapk	Ok thanks, yes
2021-07-01 14:47:12	PaulFertser	ignapk: each time the heads are over the damaged area they get a bit more dust flowing in the insides, and the dust damages other areas and the heads.
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2021-07-01 14:47:30	PaulFertser	So professional tools first copy all the unaffected areas.
2021-07-01 14:47:32	ayecee	for certain kinds of damage, sure
2021-07-01 14:47:36	ignapk	<PaulFertser "ignapk: if the disk is making no"> Oh I wish I had known that
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2021-07-01 14:47:53	ayecee	the only way to know if an area is affected is to try to read it
2021-07-01 14:48:25	ayecee	ignapk: when you reply like that in matrix, it writes this: <PaulFertser "ignapk: if the disk is making no">
2021-07-01 14:48:39	ayecee	you don't see it, but everyone else does. if you could turn that off, that'd be great.
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2021-07-01 14:49:03	PaulFertser	ayecee: right, but the tools are doing it just once, skip it, and proceed with reading everything else automatically.
2021-07-01 14:49:04	ignapk	Ok I won't use replies since this is IRC first channel, sorry
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2021-07-01 14:49:13	Kyv	it is an IRC channel
2021-07-01 14:50:16	ignapk	so use dd_rescue or ddrescue to try to backup whatever I can from entire disk
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2021-07-01 14:50:52	ayecee	yes, with ddrescue. dd_rescue is an older thing that isn't really used anymore.
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2021-07-01 14:51:18	ignapk	Ok thank you
2021-07-01 14:51:38	ignapk	I guess it's time to grab a new at least 500gb disk for backup
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2021-07-01 14:57:58	PaulFertser	ignapk: I see your load_cycle_count is quite big. Is this a laptop?
2021-07-01 14:58:27	ignapk	Yes, it is
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2021-07-01 14:58:54	PaulFertser	  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   049   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       45150
2021-07-01 14:58:59	PaulFertser	193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   015   015   000    Old_age   Always       -       170111
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2021-07-01 14:59:07	PaulFertser	From my old 3.5" HDD
2021-07-01 15:00:25	PaulFertser	But  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       185
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2021-07-01 15:02:57	 *	themachine checks out ignapk's big load cycle count
2021-07-01 15:03:12	ayecee	mirin
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2021-07-01 15:06:45	Swift110-mobile	oh wow
2021-07-01 15:06:54	Swift110-mobile	how are you doing that?
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2021-07-01 15:07:20	ignapk	11 year old laptop
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2021-07-01 15:08:27	ignapk	 But I see I could have been more careful with very often reboots and putting to sleep
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2021-07-01 15:09:09	Swift110-mobile	oh ok ignapk
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2021-07-01 15:09:25	Swift110-mobile	Just about all of my laptops are at least that old
2021-07-01 15:10:26	ignapk	Oh, what about your load and power cycle_count then?
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2021-07-01 15:12:16	Swift110-mobile	I don't know how to check that
2021-07-01 15:13:14	ayecee	smartctl -a devicename
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2021-07-01 15:13:28	ayecee	the output will have stats like the ones above
2021-07-01 15:13:45	firepup	gonna have to install that xd
2021-07-01 15:14:24	PaulFertser	ignapk: load_cycle_count increases also without powering off. When you're on battery power laptops spin down disks after a minute if configured to do so, and some are.
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2021-07-01 15:15:31	ayecee	probably not what did in this drive though
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2021-07-01 15:16:31	PaulFertser	https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues#Drives_which_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linux
2021-07-01 15:17:11	ayecee	like, something to be aware of, but not something you really need to micromanage
2021-07-01 15:17:16	ayecee	disks gonna disk
2021-07-01 15:17:34	PaulFertser	ayecee: yes, this drive is likely just a random accident judging by the smartctl output. One might probably start worrying when reallocated sector count got above 1-2.
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2021-07-01 15:18:26	ayecee	i think i'd start at non-zero for that
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2021-07-01 15:18:43	ayecee	but i'm thinking of the load cycle count.
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2021-07-01 15:20:49	PaulFertser	ayecee: yes, non-zero should probably make anyone worried, agreed. I just thought I'd be looking overly paranoid for saying that :)
2021-07-01 15:20:55	ayecee	heh
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2021-07-01 15:22:35	Swift110-mobile	ayecee: ok I will check that out when I get the chance
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2021-07-01 16:22:20	Skaface	can I specify a program for linux to kill when the memory is full?
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2021-07-01 16:22:31	mlu	Skaface: no, not really
2021-07-01 16:22:52	Skaface	oh ok
2021-07-01 16:22:53	mlu	Skaface: you can monitor and kill when your memory usage gets concerningly high though
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2021-07-01 16:23:32	msiism	Skaface: Are you running out of memory on a regular basis?
2021-07-01 16:23:34	ayecee	you can by putting a really high value in /proc/<pid>/oom_score_adj
2021-07-01 16:23:41	ayecee	or something like that
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2021-07-01 16:24:20	ayecee	the score is what is used to determine which to kill, and the adjustment puts your thumb on the scale
2021-07-01 16:24:23	Skaface	yeah i run qutebrowser, it has a memory leak issue, and if i keep it open for a week or so my system eventually crashes
2021-07-01 16:24:43	Skaface	ahh ok thanks ayecee
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2021-07-01 16:25:03	ayecee	oom wouldn't cause system crash though. you may have two problems.
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2021-07-01 16:25:15	phogg	You will need to re-adjust the score each time you restart the process. You might want to automate that with a wrapper script.
2021-07-01 16:25:17	Skaface	sorry, not a crash
2021-07-01 16:25:34	Skaface	it just becomes unresponsive until i manage to ssh in and kill qutebrowser
2021-07-01 16:25:50	msiism	Isn't qutebrowser now Falkon?
2021-07-01 16:25:58	msiism	How about using that instead?
2021-07-01 16:26:47	twiclo	p.twil.cx/peb
2021-07-01 16:26:57	Skaface	nah thats not really what I want, qutebrowser is a vim-like interface
2021-07-01 16:26:58	twiclo	I'm trying to incrase my mouse scroll wheel speed
2021-07-01 16:27:04	twiclo	Which parameter is it?
2021-07-01 16:28:49	msiism	Oh, Falkon was QupZilla, my bad.
2021-07-01 16:29:18	msiism	Skaface: File a bug report, maybe?
2021-07-01 16:29:43	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-01 16:30:03	Skaface	yeah they have been chasing this problem for at least a year hah, its pretty well known
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2021-07-01 16:30:26	msiism	twiclo: Better paste without haste.
2021-07-01 16:30:34	msiism	Skaface: I see.
2021-07-01 16:32:06	lantech19446	does anyone know if anyone took up maintaining TempleOS after terry died?
2021-07-01 16:32:23	twiclo	https://p.twil.cx/raw/peb
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2021-07-01 16:32:26	twiclo	There it is without JS
2021-07-01 16:32:33	Skaface	lantech19446: no one else in the world is that insane
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2021-07-01 16:34:26	ayecee	at least, not in the same way
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2021-07-01 16:35:10	Skaface	twiclo: nothing in there will change the scroll speed
2021-07-01 16:35:30	msiism	Also, scroll wheels are arguably overrated.
2021-07-01 16:35:49	wigums	your opinion is wrong
2021-07-01 16:35:54	Skaface	twiclo: is it mainly in your web browser that you are having the issue? because you can change settings in chrome/firefox for that
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2021-07-01 16:35:55	SmashingX	I'm using VirtualBox, I was moving some snapshots from one directory to another one and then back to their original location, now when I start my debian VM and I try to update my machine with aptitude I get and error and after that it seems like the hard drive gets locked because I can't write to the server, I start seeing this error "sudo: unable to open /var/lib/sudo/username/1: Read-only file s
2021-07-01 16:36:03	twiclo	https://p.twil.cx/raw/doy
2021-07-01 16:36:06	SmashingX	sudo: unable to open /var/lib/sudo/username/1: Read-only file system
2021-07-01 16:36:23	twiclo	I guess most of my scrolling is done in the browser
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2021-07-01 16:36:29	ayecee	SmashingX: that's something that happens when a filesystem error has been detected. check output of dmesg to see if that's the case.
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2021-07-01 16:36:39	rascul	twiclo how much the scroll wheel scrolls is up to the application
2021-07-01 16:36:42	msiism	wigums: How can an opinion be wrong? Also, what do you mean by "wrong"?
2021-07-01 16:36:50	Skaface	I have mine set up so when i hold down the middle mouse button and move the mouse up/down/left/right it works as scroll (i use a trackball so it might work better for me)
2021-07-01 16:36:51	twiclo	I don't see a setting for it in Brave however
2021-07-01 16:37:08	rascul	maybe brave doesn't provide such customization
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2021-07-01 16:37:38	Skaface	i can give you the config to do the mouse scroll if youre interested
2021-07-01 16:37:41	ayecee	msiism: not supported by fact, or by experience, or by my opinion
2021-07-01 16:37:43	SmashingX	ayecee: can those errors be recoverable?
2021-07-01 16:37:44	Kyv	In Firefox, that is called autoscrolling.
2021-07-01 16:37:55	ayecee	SmashingX: sure, it's possible
2021-07-01 16:38:16	SmashingX	I really hope so :/
2021-07-01 16:38:20	wigums	msiism i mean you opinion is wrong. the proper opinion to have is that scroll wheels are needed
2021-07-01 16:38:23	ayecee	would be nice
2021-07-01 16:38:27	Kyv	There is imwheel for mousewheel configuration.
2021-07-01 16:38:35	SmashingX	it happens only when I run sudo apt-get upgrade
2021-07-01 16:38:58	msiism	wigums: I see. I'll have to live without holding the proper opinion in this case then. Doable.
2021-07-01 16:39:00	rifl	it sucks that firefox's nolong be able to drag and move at all when openning with terminal in linux
2021-07-01 16:39:38	Kyv	rifl: eh?
2021-07-01 16:39:43	rascul	rifl i can move the firefox window around just fine however it's opened
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2021-07-01 16:39:44	msiism	ayecee: Okay, that last one, I get that.
2021-07-01 16:39:47	SmashingX	I went back to the state of the snapshot and everything is good, I can even write to files, but as soon as I run the upgrade command, I start to get that error
2021-07-01 16:40:08	tgarder	i don't care about scroll wheels (despite the scroll speed is crazy fast under Ubuntu, I'd agree), I'm just annoyed the touchpad seems to have a way bigger middle click area under linux than windows, and firefox closes tabs on middle click (which you can't toggle off) instead of focusing on them
2021-07-01 16:40:20	-->	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 16:40:27	tgarder	incredibly annoying
2021-07-01 16:40:38	-->	Nimzowitsch (~nimzo@user/nimzowitsch) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 16:40:46	hexnewbie	rifl: Whether it's started from terminal or not has no bearing on whether it can be moved or resized. I've been doing stuff like this recently, though: xdotool search --name 'Firefox' windowsize %@ 80% 80%
2021-07-01 16:40:47	rascul	tgarder the middle click area is probably configurable but i don't recall how, also my firefox does not close tabs on middle click
2021-07-01 16:40:49	rifl	firefox that opened as external progress of emacs has no longer been moved and droped
2021-07-01 16:41:23	Kyv	Okay.
2021-07-01 16:41:30	msiism	It's time to let go of Firefoy anyway. So not a lot of harm there, I guess.
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2021-07-01 16:41:40	rascul	msiism there are no other suitable options for me
2021-07-01 16:41:58	Kyv	I guess I shouldn't ask why I never hear about qutebrowser anymore. Now there is a memory leak?
2021-07-01 16:42:03	rifl	firefox has privacy projection while others doesnt
2021-07-01 16:42:09	Kyv	High price for vi keybindings and numbered weblinks.
2021-07-01 16:42:10	tgarder	rascul: well, mine does and there's plenty of threads of people asking it to be a selectable option
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2021-07-01 16:42:24	rascul	tgarder i'm trying to see what i may have done to disable it
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2021-07-01 16:42:51	tgarder	rascul: pretty cool if you've solved it :D
2021-07-01 16:43:26	rascul	tgarder oh nevermind mine does close for middle click, i forgot my mouse is dying and i need to middle click extra hard
2021-07-01 16:43:27	msiism	rascul: Suitable for what exactly, though?
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2021-07-01 16:43:35	rascul	msiism browsing web pages on the internet
2021-07-01 16:43:53	Skaface	Kyv: yeah i cant find anything that suits my needs more, its perfect besides that.. its mainly when you leave a javascript page running for days at a time, it could even be a problem in the webengine
2021-07-01 16:44:11	SmashingX	ayecee: https://hastebin.com/umeconevub.less
2021-07-01 16:44:14	wwalker	I have umount'd an ext4 fs that sits on top of a luks device.  luksClose fails because this still exists.  Why does it exist since the file system is already unmounted??
2021-07-01 16:44:16	SmashingX	This is what I get
2021-07-01 16:44:17	msiism	rascul: That can mean a lot of things, though.
2021-07-01 16:44:17	wwalker	drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 0 2021-07-01T20:33:44 /sys/fs/ext4/dm-6
2021-07-01 16:44:26	SmashingX	Do you know what that means?
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2021-07-01 16:44:43	rascul	msiism sure, what are you getting at? are you going to start offering alternatives or something?
2021-07-01 16:44:46	felco	im using nextdns to filter trackers and ads, i've loose all privary on my network dns queries but then i can surf the web way faster so i dont really care ;p
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2021-07-01 16:45:18	jushur	msiism: you have a lvm ontop of the crypt loop?
2021-07-01 16:45:28	Kyv	Skaface: that is normally the thing that puts me off qutebrowser.. python, qt5webkit/pyqtwebengine
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2021-07-01 16:45:43	jushur	oh wrong guy :D
2021-07-01 16:45:52	wwalker	I do not have any LV/VG/PV on the luks devices
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2021-07-01 16:46:41	wwalker	I can just reboot the machine, but I shouldn't need to.
2021-07-01 16:46:49	jushur	wwalker: and the umount showed no errors?
2021-07-01 16:47:06	wwalker	jushur: correct, no errors
2021-07-01 16:47:13	Kyv	Just a few years ago the browser and all past versions were revealed to have arbitrary code execution vulnerabilty.
2021-07-01 16:47:25	msiism	rascul: I was going to get at the fact that some of the things for which Firefox is more or less the only suitable solution might be worth abandoning anyway.
2021-07-01 16:47:33	ayecee	SmashingX: what is before that?
2021-07-01 16:47:48	rascul	msiism in my case, it is not
2021-07-01 16:47:57	jushur	wwalker: lsblk -f
2021-07-01 16:48:01	SmashingX	damn it
2021-07-01 16:48:08	SmashingX	I can't open anything now
2021-07-01 16:48:21	rascul	msiism pretty much the only worthwhile options are all derived from khtml and since khtml was created i've yet to find a browser implementing it or something based on it that does not hurt my eyes when it scrolls
2021-07-01 16:48:23	SmashingX	I will have to restart againb
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2021-07-01 16:48:39	ayecee	SmashingX: anyhow it's definitely a filesystem error, and you should do a fsck on it.
2021-07-01 16:48:47	msiism	rascul: How do you scroll?
2021-07-01 16:48:52	ayecee	it's not clear what the cause of the error is though. i hoped it would be before that.
2021-07-01 16:48:56	rascul	msiism with mouse wheel normally
2021-07-01 16:49:00	msiism	See.
2021-07-01 16:49:02	msiism	:)
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2021-07-01 16:49:10	msiism	I use PageUp/PageDown.
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2021-07-01 16:49:23	msiism	Because everything else will just hurt my eyes.
2021-07-01 16:49:26	rascul	i do on occasion but not primarily
2021-07-01 16:49:37	 *	esselfe scrolls rascul's wheel
2021-07-01 16:49:41	Kyv	I have always needed to enable vsync somewhere to clean up the scrolling.
2021-07-01 16:49:46	rascul	firefox has done smooth scrolling for decades, apparently nobody else has figured it out
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2021-07-01 16:49:58	msiism	I mean, I also use cursor up/down sometimes to scroll a line or two.
2021-07-01 16:50:12	msiism	rascul: I see.
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2021-07-01 16:50:20	esselfe	I use up/down arrow keys
2021-07-01 16:50:28	Kyv	rascul: do you not run compositing with blackbox?
2021-07-01 16:50:52	rascul	Kyv no
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2021-07-01 16:51:35	wwalker	jushur: looks fine to me...  https://gist.github.com/wwalker/ab7f64aac561a860a390ae46bb4e9b8d
2021-07-01 16:51:37	afidegnum	hi, my Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd
2021-07-01 16:51:37	afidegnum	            Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode).is not recognized. how do i apply the patch at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Bluetooth#CSR_Dongle_0a12:0001 ? any driver avaialble ?
2021-07-01 16:52:06	rascul	msiism i'm not opposed to switching to another browser if something else figures out how to scroll smoothly and it meets my other needs
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2021-07-01 16:52:13	Kyv	If I dont run it, I get tearing/janky scrolling. Smooth-scrolling doesnt fix that.
2021-07-01 16:52:38	rascul	Kyv if i run a compositor i get a laggy desktop
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2021-07-01 16:54:01	msiism	rascul: I'm keeping a but if an eye on Otter. But it's still not a drop-in-replacament for Firefox.
2021-07-01 16:54:11	msiism	s/but/bit
2021-07-01 16:54:19	msiism	:)
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2021-07-01 16:55:11	rascul	msiism it aims to recreate a browser i despised, so i'll probably never even try it
2021-07-01 16:55:13	<--	death916 (AdiIRC@user/death916) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-01 16:55:18	msiism	:D
2021-07-01 16:55:22	Kyv	Why is Otter interesting?
2021-07-01 16:55:29	jim	afidegnum, normally in linux-world, a patch is a patch to source code, so you need a copy of the source, then you apply the patch
2021-07-01 16:55:36	rwb	    padding: .78571429em .78571429em;
2021-07-01 16:55:38	rwb	powerful
2021-07-01 16:55:41	rwb	wrong channel
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2021-07-01 16:55:46	rascul	msiism also it uses web kit so probably (but not necessarily) has the same scrolling issues for me
2021-07-01 16:55:51	msiism	Kyv: Because the developers are against telemtry, for example.
2021-07-01 16:56:05	msiism	rascul: It's supposed to be multi-backend.
2021-07-01 16:57:06	 *	msiism wonders whether Web browsers can be done right at all.
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2021-07-01 16:57:26	rifl	the fact that in personal firefox's smooth scrolling didnt work well after the last runable firefox i've installed from time to time
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2021-07-01 16:57:53	rascul	msiism wikipedia says it supports qt webengine and qtwebkit, qt webengine is blink which is webkit...
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2021-07-01 16:58:21	rascul	s/is webkit/from webkit/
2021-07-01 16:58:28	msiism	I see.
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2021-07-01 16:58:35	rascul	damnit from isn't the right word either
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2021-07-01 16:58:43	rascul	blink is just google's fork of webkit
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2021-07-01 16:59:26	msiism	Maybe Gemini wasn't such a bad idea, after all.
2021-07-01 16:59:38	rascul	konqueror at one time could switch between khtml and gecko but gecko is a real pain to embed and that option didn't last a long time
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2021-07-01 17:00:09	msiism	I see.
2021-07-01 17:00:17	rascul	if mozilla would work on the embedding gecko stuff then we might see some other gecko based browsers popping up
2021-07-01 17:00:25	Kyv	Gemini isnt a bad idea if you just like putzing around on people's microblogs.
2021-07-01 17:00:43	msiism	Kyv: Do you do anything else on the Web?
2021-07-01 17:01:15	Kyv	occasionally, yeah
2021-07-01 17:01:37	msiism	Me too, actually, but more because I'm forced to.
2021-07-01 17:01:58	--	omero is now known as asleep
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2021-07-01 17:03:02	msiism	Well, the best thing to do at this point is probably to abandon all hope and start over from learning how to build your own hardware.
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2021-07-01 17:03:18	rascul	i'm no good with a soldering iron
2021-07-01 17:03:34	msiism	Alan Kay says that people who really care about software build their own hardware. :)
2021-07-01 17:04:05	msiism	You don't have to hold that in your hand, I guess.
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2021-07-01 17:04:19	msiism	I'm terrible with a soldering iron.
2021-07-01 17:04:26	rascul	i wonder what hardware alan kay runs
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2021-07-01 17:04:46	 *	msiism gets that thing.
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2021-07-01 17:05:07	msiism	rascul: https://dynamicland.org/
2021-07-01 17:05:15	msiism	I do think this is crazy, by the way.
2021-07-01 17:05:24	msiism	And not necessarily in a good sense.
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2021-07-01 17:05:35	rascul	i don't know what any of that is
2021-07-01 17:05:49	msiism	It's not VR, "just R".
2021-07-01 17:06:05	rascul	vr without the headset?
2021-07-01 17:06:10	rascul	how does that work?
2021-07-01 17:06:26	msiism	More like very ubiquitious computing.
2021-07-01 17:07:28	msiism	To quote: "a humane dynamic medium whose full power is accessible to all people."
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2021-07-01 17:29:18	b0rf	oof aint it the truth
2021-07-01 17:29:24	rascul	it's not
2021-07-01 17:30:04	Kyv	I rent my dynamic medium.
2021-07-01 17:30:09	Kyv	Everything I need I rent.
2021-07-01 17:30:19	rascul	food?
2021-07-01 17:30:34	Kyv	bugs
2021-07-01 17:30:44	rascul	you rent bugs?
2021-07-01 17:30:51	ayecee	your dynamic medium sounds like a very spirited lady
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2021-07-01 17:33:53	Kyv	rascul: I get company bugs
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2021-07-01 17:38:17	rascul	oops i meant to take a shower but i got a beer instead, i guess i'll just have to be dirty for a little bit longer
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2021-07-01 17:38:49	Kyv	You go ahead and be dirty.
2021-07-01 17:39:25	Umeaboy	Hi! Does anyone here have a any experience with building rpm packages using npm in the spec file?
2021-07-01 17:39:53	Umeaboy	Here's my spec file and I need to solve the %prep and %build part: https://hastebin.com/uvowidazij.sql
2021-07-01 17:40:18	rascul	what is the problem?
2021-07-01 17:41:41	Umeaboy	Well, Tutanota desktop client uses npm to build (I could be mistaken about that) and I want to know what to use on the %prep and %build sections so that rpmbuild will build a working package in the end.
2021-07-01 17:41:50	Umeaboy	I made the spec file from scratch.
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2021-07-01 17:42:23	rascul	why doesn't it now?
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2021-07-01 17:43:32	Umeaboy	I could test, but I don't think it'll work.
2021-07-01 17:43:36	Umeaboy	Testing now.....
2021-07-01 17:43:43	rascul	you might need npm as a BuildRequires though
2021-07-01 17:43:58	rascul	also tar
2021-07-01 17:44:30	jim	b0rf, do you have a linux question?
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2021-07-01 17:45:27	lacroix	rascul, nice choice.
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2021-07-01 17:46:01	rascul	beer > shower
2021-07-01 17:46:16	jim	and a shower with beer?
2021-07-01 17:46:32	c705	nothing quite like having a beer in the shower
2021-07-01 17:46:50	ayecee	except maybe having two beer in the shower
2021-07-01 17:47:05	lacroix	good one ayecee
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2021-07-01 17:47:12	b0rf	linux question:
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2021-07-01 17:47:15	b0rf	are you my stepdad
2021-07-01 17:47:25	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-07-01 17:47:32	b0rf	my stepdad's name is jim
2021-07-01 17:47:41	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@121-44-16-32.tpgi.com.au] by lacroix
2021-07-01 17:48:04	themachine	shower beer is a great thing
2021-07-01 17:48:08	<--	lacroix has kicked b0rf (out.)
2021-07-01 17:49:05	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
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2021-07-01 17:54:49	matsaman	that's when you make beer from fermented gray water after showering in li'l flowers, aye?
2021-07-01 17:55:07	lacroix	nerdy beer.
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2021-07-01 17:56:24	themachine	fermented gray water is a phrase I never wanted to hear
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2021-07-01 17:57:30	matsaman	lot of people think beer kept a lot of people from getting sick drinking water, in ye olden tymes
2021-07-01 17:58:04	-->	kindablue (znc@irc.tpurist.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 17:58:10	rascul	sick drinking water is the worst
2021-07-01 17:58:11	c705	yeah that's what my dad always told me, but then he died of cancer sooo..
2021-07-01 17:58:35	themachine	beer cancer?
2021-07-01 17:58:48	matsaman	a lot of diseases we have today are things people back in ye olden tymes didn't have to worry about 'cause they died before 30
2021-07-01 17:58:48	rascul	beer can get cancer?
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2021-07-01 17:59:22	c705	alcohol has been known to raise incidence of esoph/gatric cancer
2021-07-01 17:59:25	c705	gastric*
2021-07-01 17:59:35	onelegend	I'm never drinking beer or alcohol
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2021-07-01 17:59:45	matsaman	remind me to not come to your wedding
2021-07-01 17:59:45	onelegend	I'll just drink water
2021-07-01 17:59:49	rascul	i just did an image search on duckduckgo and i couldn't find a single image of a beer can with cancer
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2021-07-01 18:00:05	Kyv	water is all you need.
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2021-07-01 18:00:25	rascul	water and beer are pretty much all i drink
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2021-07-01 18:01:01	rascul	on rare occasions i might have a soda, or slightly more rare an orange juice in the morning
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2021-07-01 18:01:40	Umeaboy	I make my own sparkling water and I'm _NOT_ talking about the bubbly water in the bath tub. :)
2021-07-01 18:01:52	onelegend	studies show that smiling makes you live longer
2021-07-01 18:01:54	matsaman	Umeaboy: gold flakes?
2021-07-01 18:02:02	Umeaboy	I wish.
2021-07-01 18:02:09	matsaman	onelegend: studies show that being rich and having flawless healthcare makes you smile more =P
2021-07-01 18:02:18	matsaman	too easy: everybody be rich
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2021-07-01 18:03:11	onelegend	humans should be able to live forever in 2050
2021-07-01 18:03:13	lacroix	Arsen: ref. yesterday, a few years ago we had a interesting security bug in linux. using namespace you could get rid of supplementary groups
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2021-07-01 18:03:50	lacroix	Arsen: .. and some people were using supplementary groups to *deny* access to resources.
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2021-07-01 18:04:03	lacroix	onelegend: I don't wish to live forever
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2021-07-01 18:04:20	Kyv	me neither
2021-07-01 18:04:20	lacroix	Arsen: so dropping the supplementary group would *increase* the privileges of the process
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2021-07-01 18:05:34	lacroix	e.g. i put you into the supplementary group "kids" and then chmod 707 /porn && chown me:kids /porn
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2021-07-01 18:05:50	c705	errrr
2021-07-01 18:06:00	lacroix	i think on the mailinglist there was a better example with games, but you get the idea ;)
2021-07-01 18:06:07	ayecee	looks illegal somehow
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2021-07-01 18:07:16	lacroix	it was a security bug
2021-07-01 18:07:37	lacroix	you disallow access to group members
2021-07-01 18:07:44	lacroix	because the group mode is 0
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2021-07-01 18:08:01	lacroix	so you can protect a folder by *adding* somebody to a group
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2021-07-01 18:10:28	lacroix	and if your kids are smart hackers and mange to get rid of the supplementary group "kids", they can access the forbidden folder
2021-07-01 18:10:42	judah	There is something about making a file belong to a group that does not have access to said file that rubs me the wrong way, but I cant see any reason why that wouldnt work
2021-07-01 18:11:05	matsaman	if they're that smart, you'd just be happy
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2021-07-01 18:11:37	lacroix	judah, as i said, supplementary groups are messy
2021-07-01 18:11:40	firepup	if they happened to delete the folder which held precious data, i dont think you'd be happy
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2021-07-01 18:11:53	matsaman	sure I would
2021-07-01 18:11:58	-->	borbetomagus (~borbetoma@154.3.40.199) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 18:11:59	matsaman	they'd have no computer till I restored from backup
2021-07-01 18:12:05	matsaman	which would be a while
2021-07-01 18:12:16	matsaman	good way to learn a lesson
2021-07-01 18:12:20	matsaman	if you're going to play games, be good at it
2021-07-01 18:12:36	lacroix	don't remind me. I fight with my daughters all the time on things like that
2021-07-01 18:12:56	matsaman	oh man my best friend's daughter, for the longest time she was the _worst_ liar, fsck
2021-07-01 18:12:59	matsaman	she would lie, really badly
2021-07-01 18:13:10	matsaman	and then if you just asked her "that's not really true, is it?" she'd immediately cave
2021-07-01 18:13:19	matsaman	I think she's past it now =)
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2021-07-01 18:13:52	lacroix	anyway, not that acls are more fun to work with, but...:)
2021-07-01 18:14:11	matsaman	I mean who's the kid in this arrangement? You should be more wiley than I am honestly. Don't make me depressed by thinking I'm going to always be more wiley than you, fsck.
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2021-07-01 18:14:24	matsaman	they're not _so_ bad
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2021-07-01 18:15:13	Ringtailed_Fox	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XLZ4Z8LpEE&ab_channel=CuriousMarc linux really DOES run on absolutely anything o.o
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2021-07-01 18:15:29	Kyv	I dont see the "kids were born into this world of technology! they are naturally adept!" business in practice.
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2021-07-01 18:16:41	onelegend	computers are great things
2021-07-01 18:17:04	onelegend	Ringtailed_Fox: nice
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2021-07-01 18:17:52	Ringtailed_Fox	that's a teletypwriter from 1930
2021-07-01 18:17:56	enix	computers are evil
2021-07-01 18:17:57	rascul	linux doesn't run on my toaster
2021-07-01 18:18:02	Ringtailed_Fox	rascul, give it time :)
2021-07-01 18:18:09	rascul	linux or the toaster?
2021-07-01 18:18:18	rascul	because i give the toaster a lot of time if you add it up over the years
2021-07-01 18:18:21	wwalker	jushur: found it!  Although the umounts succeeded, and mtab did not show anything mounted, there was a docker container running that still had the file systems mounted!!  I really dislike docker, but I'm  grey beard, so I'm therefore wrong....A
2021-07-01 18:18:25	wwalker	jushur: found it!  Although the umounts succeeded, and mtab did not show anything mounted, there was a docker container running that still had the file systems mounted!!  I really dislike docker, but I'm  grey beard, so I'm therefore wrong....A
2021-07-01 18:18:29	wwalker	Thanks for trying to help though!!!
2021-07-01 18:18:53	Ringtailed_Fox	rascul, the toaster.  printers can run doom... someone'll figure out how to port linux to a toaster soon enough, especialy if it's a "smart" device
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2021-07-01 18:19:45	neshpion	smart toaster.... so it can check if you've inserted the proprietary Bread®™
2021-07-01 18:19:48	jushur	wwalker: ah, well always good to learn what it is.
2021-07-01 18:19:53	rascul	linux probably runs on some toasters but mine doesn't exactly have a central processing unit
2021-07-01 18:20:15	onelegend	why can't people just print a CPU
2021-07-01 18:20:18	onelegend	easy
2021-07-01 18:20:22	onelegend	no more chip shortages
2021-07-01 18:20:41	neshpion	onelegend: you can if you have the photolithography setup and supplies :^)
2021-07-01 18:20:46	onelegend	ye sure
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2021-07-01 18:21:45	firepup	onelegend it takes time to manufacture a good enough quality chip to then use for a cpu
2021-07-01 18:22:04	Ringtailed_Fox	the ultraviolet etching devices cost a few hundred million dollars if you want them to be accurate enough, since we're etching on scales only a few atoms wide at this point
2021-07-01 18:22:19	akik	1) be really rich 2) don't be poor 3) build a plant
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2021-07-01 18:22:54	Ringtailed_Fox	samsung's lithograph etchers are poop, intel's are kinda crappy but getting better again, AMD's were good but they outsourced to TSMC...
2021-07-01 18:23:11	onelegend	oh
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2021-07-01 18:23:26	akik	https://www.reuters.com/technology/bosch-opens-german-chip-plant-its-biggest-ever-investment-2021-06-07/
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2021-07-01 18:25:57	Ringtailed_Fox	most of the issues with chip shortages are basically a "perfect storm" of unprecendented demand from both bitcoin miners *and* the coronavirus causing people to order more equipment to work from home... and natural disasters like a fire at a giga factory in japan, the fire/drought and electrical issues in taiwan, and the epic blizzard in texas that shut down the whole state for a month...
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2021-07-01 18:26:15	Ringtailed_Fox	couple that with automobiles getting into the tech industry by ordering tons of chips for their electric and selfdriving cars...
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2021-07-01 18:26:40	neshpion	"we need more magic beep boops!" - the world
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2021-07-01 18:27:06	matsaman	all the biggest companies in the world sell tape
2021-07-01 18:27:15	Ringtailed_Fox	neshpion, basically yeah
2021-07-01 18:27:29	neshpion	fight Big Tape
2021-07-01 18:28:04	Ringtailed_Fox	oh, another issue: we don't have enough containers for cargo ships to haul everything, so we have extremely high demand, supply crunches from disasters and big 'rona slowing down shipments due to lack of containers and crews having to quarantine to avoid getting sick at sea
2021-07-01 18:28:11	--	de-facto_ is now known as de-facto
2021-07-01 18:28:14	matsaman	good
2021-07-01 18:28:24	matsaman	cargo ships going across the world is stupid
2021-07-01 18:28:35	Ringtailed_Fox	i agree. why not make the stuff close to where you need it?
2021-07-01 18:28:50	Ringtailed_Fox	texas instruments still makes their chips in the dallas metroplex, so good on them
2021-07-01 18:29:43	Ringtailed_Fox	but trump's trade war forbade companies from tryign to sell lithography etching machines to europe or china, so... until bosch was able to get theirs built, manufacturing remained pretty much the same and will remain so for the forseeable future
2021-07-01 18:29:51	matsaman	yeah, but I'm pretty sure TI ships those across the world still =P
2021-07-01 18:30:02	Ringtailed_Fox	yeah, they have local manfuacturing plants as well
2021-07-01 18:30:09	matsaman	ah
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2021-07-01 18:30:12	matsaman	local is better
2021-07-01 18:30:18	matsaman	even for messy crap like electronics
2021-07-01 18:30:21	Ringtailed_Fox	and they do deliver to other parts of the world... if someone in australia wants a TI-82, why would they not say "sure! calculators for the roos!"
2021-07-01 18:30:44	Ringtailed_Fox	aside from perhaps throwing in a solar flare causing another carrington event, or aliens showing up to pew-pew us... what else could be thrown at us to even further screw up supply chains?
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2021-07-01 18:31:11	matsaman	that's just it, though
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2021-07-01 18:31:15	matsaman	our supply chains are already screwed up
2021-07-01 18:31:25	matsaman	the status quo is not always the best way
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2021-07-01 18:31:31	matsaman	in fact I'd say it rarely is these days
2021-07-01 18:31:34	matsaman	once it was, for sure
2021-07-01 18:31:35	Ringtailed_Fox	an ideal solution would be for a rail line or autoroute to cross the bering strait to link old and new worlds and would VASTLY speed up transportation from the 45 days from Shenzen to Los Angeles down to... i dunno, 15 days?
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2021-07-01 18:31:51	Ringtailed_Fox	sure, ships can haul insane amounts of stuff.. but so can a 3km long freight train
2021-07-01 18:31:54	matsaman	we have these inert internet cables across the world
2021-07-01 18:32:10	matsaman	if we actually stop overpopulation, all we need are dumb terminals
2021-07-01 18:32:19	matsaman	and I say "need", but of course we don't need computers at all
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2021-07-01 18:32:30	Ringtailed_Fox	with the way global warming is going, overpopulation wont' be a problem come 2100 :P
2021-07-01 18:32:55	Ringtailed_Fox	either people decide to have fewer kids or we have a giga famine that makes ethiopia look like a diet
2021-07-01 18:33:11	matsaman	yup
2021-07-01 18:33:25	matsaman	but overpopulation also causes global warming, of course
2021-07-01 18:33:29	matsaman	and has caused
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2021-07-01 18:33:38	Ringtailed_Fox	that too. fewer people = fewer emissions
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2021-07-01 18:34:10	matsaman	anyway if I ever see an ad on the moon or in the sky from a satellite, I will declare war =)
2021-07-01 18:34:25	lacroix	...until the next linux question.. feel free until then :)
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2021-07-01 18:34:56	matsaman	thanks pops
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2021-07-01 18:35:11	lacroix	anytime
2021-07-01 18:35:34	matsaman	how 'bout now
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2021-07-01 18:37:38	neshpion	all babies will be implanted with AdVision upon birth, an eyeball-bound piece of bio-nano-technology that projects ads into the low-noise regions of your visual field, which you can pay a subscription fee to see fewer ads!
2021-07-01 18:37:50	onelegend	ohmygod
2021-07-01 18:37:56	matsaman	well that's easy to get around
2021-07-01 18:38:01	onelegend	that would be so messed up
2021-07-01 18:38:07	matsaman	an ad on the moon would be more work
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2021-07-01 18:38:29	onelegend	I hate subscriptions
2021-07-01 18:38:34	neshpion	ads on the moon? what if someone isn't looking at the moon? with AdVision, you can reach all your potential customers, even when their eyes are closed! :D
2021-07-01 18:38:48	onelegend	holy hsit
2021-07-01 18:38:50	onelegend	*shit
2021-07-01 18:39:02	jushur	stem cells programmed to build new ADcells
2021-07-01 18:39:05	onelegend	fsck AdVision
2021-07-01 18:39:11	matsaman	neshpion: yeah, but since I don't have to send my kids to hospitals to be born, I wouldn't care about that as much
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2021-07-01 18:40:48	neshpion	want to buy something? pay by having the automated checkout scan your AdVision retinal Ad-ID -- never have to carry cash or cards again! :DD
2021-07-01 18:41:15	onelegend	Advision would be perhaps the largest side channel attack ever made
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2021-07-01 18:41:51	mathu	what capabilities does nsjail require to run? if i have its executable here, how can i scan what capabilities it requests?
2021-07-01 18:41:56	neshpion	actually it would be easier just to let the AdVision network use computer-vision algorithms to scan your visual field for occasions when you pick items up off the shelf, and bill you automagically
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2021-07-01 18:42:58	firepup	neshpion wouldnt this be unethical
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2021-07-01 18:43:43	neshpion	firepup: pish posh, ethical standards evolve all the time -- we need an updated model of ethics that accommodates technological advancement.  you're not a luddite, are you? :DD
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2021-07-01 18:45:45	 *	Kyv gets CitizenPoints deducted for smiling internally.
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2021-07-01 18:46:24	HumbleGuy	how many SLOC linux curently has?
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2021-07-01 18:47:46	HumbleGuy	is there a feature on github that lets me see this?
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2021-07-01 18:48:37	matsaman	internet says somewhere around 30 million
2021-07-01 18:49:09	matsaman	which is around double what it ways about 5 years ago
2021-07-01 18:49:12	Kyv	with systemd around 1.3 million
2021-07-01 18:49:18	Kyv	It's ok, it's fine.
2021-07-01 18:49:31	matsaman	with systemd around 1.3 quadrillion y'mean? =P
2021-07-01 18:50:16	Kyv	Those numbers are from Phoronix, 2021-01-07
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2021-07-01 18:50:42	matsaman	Kyv: link?
2021-07-01 18:51:14	matsaman	like this one says about 30 mill, as I already said: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.12-rc1-Code-Size
2021-07-01 18:51:22	matsaman	and that's just the kernel
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2021-07-01 18:51:41	Kyv	yeah
2021-07-01 18:52:14	Kyv	It was headlining searx results and I did another query for Phoronix
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2021-07-01 18:52:20	Kyv	https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Git-Stats-EOY2019
2021-07-01 18:52:56	rascul	i'm running cloc on the latest kernel git pull but it'll take awhile
2021-07-01 18:53:30	matsaman	surely we have some stupid internet law about how rapid the doom of a thing will arrive based on growth
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2021-07-01 18:56:42	rascul	https://termbin.com/oflwf
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2021-07-01 18:58:21	matsaman	rascul: hrmm, so they're counting things like HTML?
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2021-07-01 18:58:45	matsaman	ahwell, it's still a chubber
2021-07-01 18:59:01	rascul	phoronix is "including docs, Kconfig files, user-space utilities in-tree, etc"
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2021-07-01 19:01:02	rascul	also it's possible the total lines of code has decreased
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2021-07-01 19:05:54	rascul	matsaman heh i was in the parent directory when i ran that, it got some non-linux code also
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2021-07-01 19:06:49	 *	rascul tries again
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2021-07-01 19:07:15	Kyv	https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-DRM-Drivers
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2021-07-01 19:08:36	rascul	also i'm using the stable repo  https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git
2021-07-01 19:09:03	rascul	here's the one from the correct directory  https://termbin.com/m0zh
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2021-07-01 19:13:47	rascul	Kyv not sure how phoronix gets their numbers though because in this like the numbers they present at the beginning don't match the cloc output they provide at the end    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Git-Stats-EOY2019
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2021-07-01 19:14:55	rascul	the cloc totals add up to 26,177,715 but in the beginning of the article they say 27,852,148
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2021-07-01 19:22:16	velix	Anyone into apache2? I know there is #httpd, but it's very idle over here. Anyone with an idea, why THIS happens? https://bpa.st/GN5A
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2021-07-01 19:30:00	Kyv	rascul: I dont know how to account for that, probably in looking at the GitStats thing.
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2021-07-01 19:36:46	velix	seems like Apache has a random error generator built in ;)
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2021-07-01 19:46:22	jim	velix, are you getting random errors from apache?
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2021-07-01 19:46:35	velix	jim: No, but senseless ones :)
2021-07-01 19:46:45	jim	like what?
2021-07-01 19:47:00	velix	Thee my description on the bottom: https://bpa.st/GN5A
2021-07-01 19:47:25	velix	I don't understand, why the <location > makes trouble here and the re-ordering fixes it.
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2021-07-01 19:49:24	jim	velix, I dunno what this one is... maybe they know on #httpd? (if they made it here)
2021-07-01 19:49:51	velix	jim: I've posted it in there already, but I know some guys in there are German. It's 01:50 over here. So zzzZZzz
2021-07-01 19:50:14	velix	jim: But - for real - that issue doesn't make any sense :D
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2021-07-01 19:52:31	velix	ahhh, maybe: https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/sections.html#merging
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2021-07-01 19:52:38	velix	it seems to merge them somehow
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2021-07-01 19:55:49	markasoftware	Obviously there are no cars with free and open source software and there won't be any time soon. But are there any electric vehicles in the works that arent so "connected" as Tesla for instance? Eg, no tracking, no automatic or forced updates, no paid software upgrades
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2021-07-01 20:01:20	gry	markasoftware: nope, the closest you could get is probably a cycling car like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj1xDXk6a0s
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2021-07-01 20:12:07	Dagmar	You're perfectly free to disable the network communicatons and then figure out how to do your own navigation as well as find charging stations
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2021-07-01 20:15:34	TJ-	velix: have you checked there is no .htaccess, or other configuration, affecting that vhost?
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2021-07-01 20:16:02	velix	TJ-: 100% yeah. But I got reponse on #httpd. Seems like there is an issue with <location> and proxy stuff.
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2021-07-01 20:16:12	Dagmar	It normally merges directives enclosed in separate blocks that apply to the same part of the filesystem and or namespace
2021-07-01 20:16:19	velix	I'm not able to find it in the docs... must be a pretty new bug.
2021-07-01 20:16:23	TJ-	velix: really? I use that quite a bit and not had issues!
2021-07-01 20:16:24	Dagmar	It's not really a feature>  It's just doing what you told it to do.
2021-07-01 20:16:36	velix	TJ-: Same here.
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2021-07-01 20:16:47	velix	TJ-: thumbs> velix: not a fan of using ProxyPass / ProxyPassReverse in <Location> blocks
2021-07-01 20:16:53	TJ-	velix: what httpd version/distro are you using?
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2021-07-01 20:16:58	velix	TJ-: <thumbs> velix: yes, it has bad side-effects
2021-07-01 20:17:00	velix	TJ-: 1 sec
2021-07-01 20:17:26	velix	TJ-: Debian Buster and apache 2.4.48
2021-07-01 20:17:32	Dagmar	velix:  Mozilla has a page just for best practices with respect to which parts of the encryption engines should be disabled.  You probably wanna look into that
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2021-07-01 20:18:25	Dagmar	velix: https://ssl-config.mozilla.org/
2021-07-01 20:19:15	SUMTHING1980	 if you have 2 x 500g ssd instead of 1x1tb and use raid 0, is the probability of disastrous failure double than that of single 1tb?
2021-07-01 20:19:20	velix	Dagmar: I think that wasn't for me? :)
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2021-07-01 20:20:07	Dagmar	It _is_ for you because you're the one who pasted the bpa.st link with the half-arsed TLS mitigation
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2021-07-01 20:20:34	Dagmar	You're planning on putting something on _the public internet_
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2021-07-01 20:20:48	Dagmar	If you don't do diligence in configuring it properly, a brainless bot *will* take it away from you
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2021-07-01 20:21:14	velix	Dagmar: sure, additional stuff gets added from other config files.
2021-07-01 20:21:30	velix	Dagmar: That just was the part making problems
2021-07-01 20:21:44	Dagmar	Then there was no point in including "SSLProtocol -all +TLSv1.2"
2021-07-01 20:21:45	velix	Dagmar: I'm having A+ on this website
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2021-07-01 20:23:52	Dagmar	velix: You should look carefully at _which_ server is giving you the 404 when #2 is active
2021-07-01 20:24:33	Dagmar	Change the signature so it becomes obvious.
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2021-07-01 20:25:05	velix	Dagmar: See #httpd. That's not  the issue.
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2021-07-01 20:26:28	jim	oh good, you're getting help
2021-07-01 20:26:41	Dagmar	No, thanks.  One of the regular opers there is a complete ass.
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2021-07-01 20:27:15	jim	there;s an #httpd here
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2021-07-01 21:08:40	c705	i forgot to sign one of my commits in git, and now i'm failing a unit test. how can I go back and sign that commit, or squish it into another commit? I want to keep the changes, but the commit needs to be signed. would prefer not to rebase, but I will if I have to
2021-07-01 21:08:58	c705	i'd probably tell myself to rebase
2021-07-01 21:09:43	rascul	c705 maybe something here would help  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13043357/git-sign-off-previous-commits
2021-07-01 21:10:01	vwork	I really should learn git someday
2021-07-01 21:10:03	rascul	#git has 568 people in it
2021-07-01 21:10:04	 *	[[R]] signs rascul 
2021-07-01 21:10:13	 *	rascul cross signs [[R]]
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2021-07-01 21:10:56	c705	oh yeah that's a better place to ask thanks
2021-07-01 21:11:19	rascul	maybe it is
2021-07-01 21:11:22	rascul	remains to be seen
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2021-07-01 21:14:30	user217_	Hello. cant connect via vnc (krfb server) to one of machines in lan network.  (to second one machine - connected ok) Also, remmina dont show any errors
2021-07-01 21:14:37	tusko	do linus smoke herb?
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2021-07-01 21:17:04	user217_	also, connection via ssh - ok
2021-07-01 21:17:07	c705	rascul: i ended up using one of the posts in so
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2021-07-01 21:17:38	c705	not pretty but whatever. thanks. I saw that post last night but didn't have the energy to do that
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2021-07-01 21:18:32	rascul	tusko i dunno but https://www.linux.com/news/new-linux-kernel-48-plus-kernel-killing-bug/
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2021-07-01 21:19:26	SUMTHING1980	I have a directory structure on my pc with 120k dirs, I want to recreate it on a rented server
2021-07-01 21:19:33	SUMTHING1980	minus the files, how
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2021-07-01 21:20:01	rascul	maybe with find
2021-07-01 21:20:15	 *	[[R]] finds rascul 
2021-07-01 21:20:21	 *	rascul locates [[R]]
2021-07-01 21:20:25	 *	kfrench hides rascul.
2021-07-01 21:20:28	-->	treethought (treethou@138.68.49.251) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 21:20:49	rascul	ugh   .rascul: Erroneous Nickname
2021-07-01 21:20:50	 *	onelegend encrypts rascul with an unknown cipher
2021-07-01 21:21:06	vwork	SUMTHING1980: My first thought would be rsync
2021-07-01 21:21:07	rascul	encryption is for criminals and terrorists though
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2021-07-01 21:21:47	vwork	That or script something to scrape the output of ls and use mkdir
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2021-07-01 21:22:10	rascul	find /somewhere -type d -exec ssh rented@server mkdir -p {} +
2021-07-01 21:22:12	rascul	maybe
2021-07-01 21:22:37	[[R]]	rascul: that would be slow as balls
2021-07-01 21:22:43	 *	rascul shrugs
2021-07-01 21:22:45	tusko	what that command do?
2021-07-01 21:22:47	[[R]]	oh wait, does the + make it do it all at once?
2021-07-01 21:22:51	rascul	yes
2021-07-01 21:22:55	rascul	puts it all in one command
2021-07-01 21:22:56	[[R]]	well he said 120k dirs
2021-07-01 21:23:02	[[R]]	surely that would go oever the limit
2021-07-01 21:23:06	rascul	dunno how that really works with command line limit though
2021-07-01 21:23:10	rascul	maybe find is smart about that
2021-07-01 21:23:21	[[R]]	you put too much faith in humanity
2021-07-01 21:23:22	tusko	what is {}?
2021-07-01 21:23:27	rascul	the match
2021-07-01 21:23:28	SUMTHING1980	or if I can just zip the dirs minus the files
2021-07-01 21:23:30	vwork	rysnc -a -f"+ */" -f"- *" source /destination
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2021-07-01 21:23:41	vwork	 /source*
2021-07-01 21:23:54	 *	kfrench puts his faith in humidity.
2021-07-01 21:24:02	rascul	rsync can do directories without the files? it's probably better than what i did
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2021-07-01 21:24:13	vwork	It can
2021-07-01 21:24:22	vwork	rsync seems to do everything
2021-07-01 21:24:22	rascul	SUMTHING1980 use the rsync not the find
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2021-07-01 21:24:28	[[R]]	rascul: i'll do your files
2021-07-01 21:24:36	rascul	do them hard
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2021-07-01 21:24:45	tusko	rsync is always the answer
2021-07-01 21:24:57	tusko	unless you care about completeness then use dd
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2021-07-01 21:25:08	[[R]]	how would dd help in this situation?
2021-07-01 21:25:12	vwork	dd over nc is the answer
2021-07-01 21:25:22	rascul	dd over nc is always the answer
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2021-07-01 21:25:32	rascul	unless you care about completeness then use pv
2021-07-01 21:25:33	tusko	^
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2021-07-01 21:27:43	tusko	Is there another editor than ed? I hadn't noticed.
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2021-07-01 21:29:45	rascul	well there's always cat
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2021-07-01 21:30:10	rascul	it's not that great of an editor but works (with difficulty) if ed isn't available
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2021-07-01 21:31:20	rascul	you can just cat the file in one terminal then in another terminal do 'cat > the_file' and copy/paste text until you get to a line you want to change then type in the new text then copy/paste the rest
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2021-07-01 21:31:31	rascul	then hit ctrl+d to save it
2021-07-01 21:32:14	rascul	probably easier to just install ed like you're supposed to
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2021-07-01 21:33:36	e36freak	ed is the standard editor
2021-07-01 21:33:46	[[R]]	what's the unstandard editor?
2021-07-01 21:33:52	e36freak	[[R]]
2021-07-01 21:34:06	 *	[[R]] edits e36freak 
2021-07-01 21:34:10	e36freak	:o
2021-07-01 21:34:13	firepup	i thought it was vi
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2021-07-01 21:34:32	rascul	no, it's ex
2021-07-01 21:34:40	rascul	vi just shouldn't exist
2021-07-01 21:34:52	rascul	vim just shouldn't exist
2021-07-01 21:35:01	e36freak	https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
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2021-07-01 21:39:41	vwork	Why bother with any of those when there's Atom or VS/Code? Cpu cycles and memory are infinite and free now, from what I understand.
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2021-07-01 21:40:31	tusko	ed is the editor for the real ones
2021-07-01 21:40:41	Dagmar	e36freak: The secret to understanding ed is in realizing it was never meant for humans to use.
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2021-07-01 21:41:20	rascul	humans are the worst
2021-07-01 21:41:21	Dagmar	It was written so the programmers could use it to write something for humans to use without having to use `cat - > somethingbetterthaned.c`
2021-07-01 21:41:39	scara	cpu cycles are not infinite... like at all and nothing is free
2021-07-01 21:41:45	rascul	cat is pretty good at concatenating files, though
2021-07-01 21:41:57	[[R]]	rascul: what are you doing to my cats!?
2021-07-01 21:42:05	scara	this a editor debate?
2021-07-01 21:42:09	rascul	[[R]] shove them in pipes
2021-07-01 21:42:11	vwork	Concentrating them
2021-07-01 21:42:14	[[R]]	thats not very nice
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2021-07-01 21:42:21	[[R]]	they'll scratch your eyes out
2021-07-01 21:42:22	scara	everyone knows that $EDITOR is the best editor!
2021-07-01 21:42:22	rascul	cats aren't very nice
2021-07-01 21:42:22	vwork	What the fuck hexchat
2021-07-01 21:42:32	vwork	"Concatenating" is a word
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2021-07-01 21:42:34	arcturus	we have to echo lines directly into files
2021-07-01 21:42:37	rascul	export EDITOR=ed
2021-07-01 21:42:44	arcturus	true masters know there is no sword
2021-07-01 21:42:45	tusko	Yeah, try writing some asm to drive an LED strip off a small dev board with a janky cpu.
2021-07-01 21:42:55	tusko	You'll appreciate CPU cycles
2021-07-01 21:43:12	rascul	most people would want to use $VISUAL instead of $EDITOR though because line editors are a bit awkward
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2021-07-01 21:43:35	scara	whats the diffrence? same value
2021-07-01 21:43:56	rascul	$EDITOR is for the preferred line editor and $VISUAL is for the preferred visual editor
2021-07-01 21:43:59	rascul	ed vs vim
2021-07-01 21:44:02	scara	$VISUAL doesn't even exist, huh...
2021-07-01 21:44:16	rascul	lots of stuff incorrectly treat $EDITOR as $VISUAL
2021-07-01 21:44:17	-->	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 21:44:20	rascul	stuff and people
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2021-07-01 21:44:27	arcturus	no votes for microsoft word
2021-07-01 21:44:35	rascul	export VISUAL=msword
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2021-07-01 21:44:53	tusko	This is why emacs came to save us from ourselves.
2021-07-01 21:45:02	rascul	emacs goes in $VISUAL not $EDITOR
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2021-07-01 21:45:07	scara	oh do you mean graphical?
2021-07-01 21:45:21	rascul	gui or tui
2021-07-01 21:45:24	rascul	not cli
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2021-07-01 21:45:46	scara	$EDITOR = tui, $VISUAL = gui ?
2021-07-01 21:45:48	drew	I can't boot memtest86 from memtest86.org (Reboot and Select proper Boot device Or Insert Boot Media in Selected Boot Device and pree a key)
2021-07-01 21:45:50	rascul	no
2021-07-01 21:46:16	rascul	$EDITOR = ed, $VISUAL = nano, vim, vscode, eclipse, emacs, sublime, pico, etc
2021-07-01 21:46:25	drew	and then when I try to boot memtest86 from memtest86.com it hangs on Measuring CPU/cache/mem speeds...
2021-07-01 21:46:39	scara	k...
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2021-07-01 21:47:01	rascul	$EDITOR is for line editors   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
2021-07-01 21:47:19	rascul	$VISUAL is for visual editors  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_editor
2021-07-01 21:47:21	vwork	I'd call that a failed test then, drew.
2021-07-01 21:47:28	drew	lol
2021-07-01 21:47:38	<--	[jamez] (~james@64.25.196.228) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-01 21:48:30	scara	and now i sleep
2021-07-01 21:48:31	tusko	The so-called "visual" editors have been placed here by ed to tempt the faithless.
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2021-07-01 21:51:24	Dagmar	drew: What kind of hardware is this?
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2021-07-01 21:52:32	arcturus	we cant be ed supremacists, imho
2021-07-01 21:52:45	rascul	seems like we could be, but i'm not
2021-07-01 21:53:03	rascul	i just use vs codium a bunch
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2021-07-01 21:53:19	akk	The current ed isn't the true ed anyway. Ed was originally much better (and it had a prompt), but at some point it got dumbed down.
2021-07-01 21:53:36	-->	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 21:53:36	rascul	gnu probably screwed it all up
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2021-07-01 21:55:04	rascul	http://sciteco.sourceforge.net/
2021-07-01 21:55:14	[[R]]	freakin gnu
2021-07-01 21:55:29	rascul	if you are familiar with teco from the '60s the sciteco will be right up your alley
2021-07-01 21:55:30	powerhouse_	I am trying to download "nc" but getting [Errno 14] curl#6 "Could not resolve host: mirror.clarkson.edu; Unknown error" so I look in "/etc/resolv.conf file?" and put my ip in the DNS line but still not working.
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2021-07-01 21:56:39	rascul	powerhouse_ whatever you did to resolv.conf doesn't sound correct, there shouldn't be a "dns" line and your ip shouldn't go there unless there's a nameserver there that you want to query
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2021-07-01 21:57:20	rascul	there are four types of lines valid for resolv.conf and they are nameserver, search, sortlist, and options
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2021-07-01 21:58:03	powerhouse_	rascul, okay I removed the ip.  I have DNS1 DNS2 Domain. I am also not sure if this is where I need to be to solve the problem
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2021-07-01 21:58:25	rascul	"DNS1 DNS2 Domain" is verbatim what you have in /etc/resolv.conf ?
2021-07-01 21:58:35	rascul	because that won't work for anything
2021-07-01 21:58:44	powerhouse_	yes.  new vm
2021-07-01 21:59:06	powerhouse_	just trying to get ssh access to be honest
2021-07-01 21:59:10	rascul	ok either you have a horribly jacked up resolv.conf or i'm interpreting your description incorrectly
2021-07-01 21:59:18	rascul	maybe just put it in a pastebin so i can see what's going on
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2021-07-01 21:59:54	powerhouse_	rascul, problem is I am unable to copy paste the text from this console.
2021-07-01 22:00:09	rascul	try a screenshot maybe
2021-07-01 22:00:13	powerhouse_	good idea
2021-07-01 22:00:18	powerhouse_	duh
2021-07-01 22:00:47	rascul	normally a screenshot is inappropriate for text but it's acceptable in such a case where you can't easily get the text into a pastebin
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2021-07-01 22:01:52	e36freak	or use ix or sprunge or whatever
2021-07-01 22:02:24	e36freak	curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us < /etc/resolv.conf
2021-07-01 22:02:28	rascul	kinda difficult to use a pastebin service from a vm that can't resolve domain names though
2021-07-01 22:02:34	e36freak	oh, duh
2021-07-01 22:02:35	pnbeast	[[R]], you're a case where you can't easily get text into a pastebin.
2021-07-01 22:02:55	 *	rascul easily puts [[R]] into a pastebin
2021-07-01 22:02:58	 *	[[R]] puts pnbeast into pastebin
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2021-07-01 22:03:19	rascul	pnbeast see it wasn't hard   https://termbin.com/mhv7
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2021-07-01 22:03:32	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/LYxBCR0 | What does this file do anyways?
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2021-07-01 22:03:57	rascul	powerhouse_ that file configures the resolver which turns names like google.com into an ip address
2021-07-01 22:04:04	rascul	lines beginning with # are comments
2021-07-01 22:04:18	rascul	put the line 'nameserver 9.9.9.9' in there and save it and try your curl again
2021-07-01 22:04:19	powerhouse_	rascul, cool cool beans
2021-07-01 22:04:54	<--	self (~elf@user/elf) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:05:15	powerhouse_	rascul, I put "NAMESERVER" is that fine? | No dice same error
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2021-07-01 22:05:24	rascul	that's not what i said, not at all
2021-07-01 22:05:41	powerhouse_	k
2021-07-01 22:05:44	rascul	you need the stuff i put in quotes, verbatim
2021-07-01 22:05:48	rascul	exactly as i typed it
2021-07-01 22:05:51	rascul	nameserver 9.9.9.9
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2021-07-01 22:06:17	e36freak	i guess "empty" qualifies as "horribly jacked up"
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2021-07-01 22:06:48	rascul	e36freak effectively empty anyway, and horribly jacked up if the goal is to resolve names to ip addresses ;)
2021-07-01 22:06:53	powerhouse_	rascul, I had the "=9.9.9.9" in there applogies.  K I put "nameserver=9.9.9.9" but same error
2021-07-01 22:06:59	sysRPL	people from facebook marketplace wanting to buy computers, they're all idiots
2021-07-01 22:07:02	rascul	that's not what i said, not at all
2021-07-01 22:07:04	rascul	you need the stuff i put in quotes, verbatim
2021-07-01 22:07:06	rascul	exactly as i typed it
2021-07-01 22:07:07	rascul	nameserver 9.9.9.9
2021-07-01 22:07:14	gry	sysRPL: but why
2021-07-01 22:07:21	rascul	i don't know how to explain this any better
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2021-07-01 22:07:26	sysRPL	i had aschool teacher wanting to buy a computer from me who couldn't form complete sentences
2021-07-01 22:07:34	vwork	Maybe he doesn't know what "verbatim" means
2021-07-01 22:07:35	rascul	and i'm not repeating myself again, in fact i'm going to arby's
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2021-07-01 22:07:42	e36freak	ewww
2021-07-01 22:07:46	sysRPL	gry: because to start with, they use facebook
2021-07-01 22:07:58	vwork	I bet arby's won't know what verbatim means either
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2021-07-01 22:08:14	rascul	maybe you could explain
2021-07-01 22:08:16	e36freak	good thing he defined it immediately afterward
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2021-07-01 22:09:45	vwork	Insufficient, apparently
2021-07-01 22:10:16	e36freak	no it doesn't mean insufficient
2021-07-01 22:10:17	powerhouse_	rascul, K done, same error
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2021-07-01 22:13:07	ayecee	so what line do you have in the file now
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2021-07-01 22:13:39	drew	Dagmar: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Abbott/saved/wXdgt6
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2021-07-01 22:14:29	powerhouse_	ayecee, https://ibb.co/NNH1tLb
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2021-07-01 22:14:48	ayecee	facepalm
2021-07-01 22:14:57	sysRPL	i find it interesting that i sold the components of my lab room pc for significantly more than what i paid originally ($350 in 2017 resold for $600 in 2021)
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2021-07-01 22:14:58	e36freak	get rid of the # in front of that line
2021-07-01 22:15:01	e36freak	good lord
2021-07-01 22:15:02	ayecee	powerhouse_: there should not be a # in front of the line
2021-07-01 22:15:09	powerhouse_	doh
2021-07-01 22:15:11	e36freak	you were told earlier that # comments out the line
2021-07-01 22:15:12	powerhouse_	lol
2021-07-01 22:15:20	sysRPL	and replace all that with a $0 computer that is quieter and performs just as well if not better
2021-07-01 22:16:01	sysRPL	typo $0 = $35
2021-07-01 22:16:17	gry	what $35 computer is that?
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2021-07-01 22:16:44	powerhouse_	ayecee, no dice. same error | https://ibb.co/M9VRJw5
2021-07-01 22:16:47	sysRPL	hp z220, i5 3470, 16gb ram ... and i reused my 1tg samsung ssd
2021-07-01 22:16:59	sysRPL	* 1tb even
2021-07-01 22:17:01	powerhouse_	e36freak, thanks, missed that I have cte so I miss information sometimes.
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2021-07-01 22:17:12	sysRPL	the ssf hp z220
2021-07-01 22:17:18	sysRPL	not the big one
2021-07-01 22:17:25	e36freak	no =!
2021-07-01 22:17:31	e36freak	just a space
2021-07-01 22:17:31	vwork	powerhouse: the "=" doesn't need to be there
2021-07-01 22:17:35	vwork	^
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2021-07-01 22:17:48	powerhouse_	oh okay
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2021-07-01 22:18:02	SUMTHING1980	how can I do a mkdir for every line in a file?
2021-07-01 22:18:23	sysRPL	gry: this is the replacement -> https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/sys/d/orlando-hp-z220-desktop-mini-tower/7335430878.html
2021-07-01 22:18:28	SUMTHING1980	I can do it in php
2021-07-01 22:18:28	e36freak	SUMTHING1980: while read -r dir; do mkdir "$dir"; done < "$file"
2021-07-01 22:18:41	SUMTHING1980	ok thanks
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2021-07-01 22:19:43	gry	sysRPL: nice bargain to get that for $35
2021-07-01 22:20:08	sysRPL	i have stack of them, they cost me $12.50 each ...
2021-07-01 22:20:23	gry	bought from somewhere else, not from craigslist?
2021-07-01 22:20:29	sysRPL	and i upgraded the ram on mine
2021-07-01 22:20:44	sysRPL	no, a liquidator in pallets
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2021-07-01 22:21:23	powerhouse_	ayecee, same error.  https://ibb.co/6wjCLCz & https://ibb.co/vBRD0B1
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2021-07-01 22:22:13	sysRPL	ever see that movie war dogs? i do the same thing, but with electronics
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2021-07-01 22:23:36	sysRPL	it wasn't to profitable ... but this gpu and chip shortage is a boom for people buying business foreclosure lots
2021-07-01 22:23:49	e36freak	oh wait you're using networkmanager. it should handle resolv.conf on its own
2021-07-01 22:24:15	e36freak	what's your /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf look like?
2021-07-01 22:24:31	<--	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:24:47	e36freak	and you can connect to an IP, right? just can't resolve domain names?
2021-07-01 22:25:20	SUMTHING1980	e36freak:  while read -r dir; do mkdir "$dir"; done < "$file"
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2021-07-01 22:25:26	SUMTHING1980	it says bash: no file or directory
2021-07-01 22:25:41	SUMTHING1980	do I put this in a file?
2021-07-01 22:25:53	SUMTHING1980	.sh scruot
2021-07-01 22:25:56	SUMTHING1980	script
2021-07-01 22:25:59	powerhouse_	e36freak, https://ibb.co/9sRLwC7
2021-07-01 22:26:04	ayecee	powerhouse_: neither link loads for me
2021-07-01 22:26:15	powerhouse_	e36freak, I have an ipv4 and v6 connected.  Trying ot get ssh access now
2021-07-01 22:26:31	e36freak	SUMTHING1980: "$file" would be the file you want to read the lines from
2021-07-01 22:26:34	powerhouse_	ayecee, really? shit sorry.
2021-07-01 22:26:38	SUMTHING1980	ok
2021-07-01 22:27:08	powerhouse_	ayecee, this works https://ibb.co/6wjCLCz
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2021-07-01 22:27:23	powerhouse_	ayecee, this works https://ibb.co/vBRD0B1
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2021-07-01 22:27:31	powerhouse_	ayecee, both work for me homie
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2021-07-01 22:27:54	ayecee	the first one loads now but very very very slowly
2021-07-01 22:28:02	ayecee	the second still doesn't load for me
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2021-07-01 22:28:07	e36freak	what distro is this?
2021-07-01 22:28:10	-->	Thedarkb-Desktop (~beno@2001:bb6:b404:188f:5b5:566a:f6bd:94d3) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 22:28:18	powerhouse_	e36freak, CentOS7
2021-07-01 22:28:26	powerhouse_	ayecee, peculiar
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2021-07-01 22:29:56	ayecee	doesn't load, in this case, means the imgbb header and footer load, but in the center there's a spinning loading icon
2021-07-01 22:30:03	e36freak	ls /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-*
2021-07-01 22:30:15	e36freak	output?
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2021-07-01 22:32:05	--	SUMTHING1980 is now known as sumthing1980
2021-07-01 22:32:08	powerhouse_	e36freak, https://ibb.co/hHpYjDq
2021-07-01 22:32:19	powerhouse_	ayecee, images are uploading slow for me.
2021-07-01 22:32:26	e36freak	ok what's in the -eth0 file?
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2021-07-01 22:34:08	powerhouse_	e36freak, https://ibb.co/mH8D4Rd
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2021-07-01 22:35:54	e36freak	put "DNS1=9.9.9.9" at the end of that
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2021-07-01 22:36:28	ayecee	okay like if the resolv.conf line didn't resolve the problem, why would that
2021-07-01 22:36:38	e36freak	and then restart the network service
2021-07-01 22:36:49	<--	Nact (~l@host-85-27-123-59.dynamic.voo.be) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-01 22:36:54	e36freak	ayecee: because network manager uses a different resolv.conf format?
2021-07-01 22:37:03	e36freak	i think that line should be DNS1=9.9.9.9
2021-07-01 22:37:11	e36freak	and you still need to restart the network service afterward
2021-07-01 22:37:17	rascul	resolv.conf only has one format though
2021-07-01 22:37:23	e36freak	i don't use it i'm just reading docs
2021-07-01 22:37:30	ayecee	what docs are you reading
2021-07-01 22:37:44	rascul	adding that to the ifcfg file just sets it appropriately in resolv.conf
2021-07-01 22:37:50	rascul	theoretically
2021-07-01 22:38:02	powerhouse_	e36freak how to restart network scripts? "systemctl restart networkscripts" doesn't work
2021-07-01 22:38:03	<--	ackyshake (~ackyshake@user/ackyshake) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:38:04	<--	Skyz (~Skyz@user/skyz) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-01 22:38:10	ayecee	i'm coming into this late. do other hosts resolve?
2021-07-01 22:38:23	ayecee	like does "ping google.com" work?
2021-07-01 22:38:46	powerhouse_	ayecee, negative ping is not working
2021-07-01 22:39:06	rascul	share again if you would the contents of /etc/resolv.conf
2021-07-01 22:39:10	rascul	also /etc/nsswitch.conf
2021-07-01 22:39:55	ayecee	pretty good odds that resolv.conf is still messed up
2021-07-01 22:40:12	firepup	just wondering what is the error with ping
2021-07-01 22:40:15	-->	ackyshake (~ackyshake@user/ackyshake) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 22:40:16	e36freak	started with https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/configuring_and_managing_networking/manually-configuring-the-etc-resolv-conf-file_configuring-and-managing-networking and started googling and checking redhat and centos docs from there
2021-07-01 22:40:23	-->	easylee2 (~easylee@mirror.easylee.nl) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 22:40:31	<--	sn1tch3r (~sn1tch3r@201-27-147-42.dsl.telesp.net.br) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-01 22:40:32	rascul	that url goes halfway to forever
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2021-07-01 22:41:11	e36freak	agreed
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2021-07-01 22:41:45	sumthing1980	when you run a command like sort and it opens a prompt you write the input, what key do you enter to make it run it
2021-07-01 22:41:48	e36freak	put the DNS1 line in either that config file or resolv.conf and systemctl restart network and hopefully that should do a thing
2021-07-01 22:41:54	rascul	sumthing1980 ctrl+d
2021-07-01 22:41:59	sumthing1980	thanks
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2021-07-01 22:42:55	ayecee	it won't.
2021-07-01 22:42:56	powerhouse_	rascul: resolv.conf = https://ibb.co/sFkkVWt | The nswtich file I can only get the end of the file
2021-07-01 22:43:11	rascul	resolv.conf is fine
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2021-07-01 22:43:30	rascul	the nsswitch.conf file i really only need the line starting with hosts
2021-07-01 22:43:36	ayecee	if resolv.conf is fine but it still doesn't work, then there's some sort of network problem, like a firewall or something.
2021-07-01 22:43:47	ayecee	or, i guess, maybe networking is not configured.
2021-07-01 22:43:50	rascul	ayecee might be a nsswitch.conf problem though
2021-07-01 22:43:58	ayecee	doesn't seem likely
2021-07-01 22:44:00	rascul	i doubt it is in this case but may as well check
2021-07-01 22:44:10	Dagmar	No one's only going to wonder why only the _end_ of a file can be accessed?
2021-07-01 22:44:22	ayecee	we'll leave that to you
2021-07-01 22:44:28	rascul	small terminal, a bunch of comments, screenshot
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2021-07-01 22:44:53	powerhouse_	rascul, I restarted, same error
2021-07-01 22:44:53	ayecee	so like what are the chances that this vps has no networking set up
2021-07-01 22:45:00	Dagmar	The relevant line should say _at minimum_: "hosts: files dns"
2021-07-01 22:45:09	Dagmar	...but I'll just blame systemd
2021-07-01 22:45:14	rascul	the hosts line is all we need to verify right now
2021-07-01 22:45:28	rascul	this is centos 7 and i don't know how much systemd took over the name resolution there
2021-07-01 22:45:38	rascul	i think it was centos 7 anyway
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2021-07-01 22:45:45	rascul	powerhouse_ what is the error?
2021-07-01 22:46:02	rascul	also can you share the output of:     grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
2021-07-01 22:46:10	rascul	also please share the output of:     ip a
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2021-07-01 22:46:54	Dagmar	If it's 7 then there should be "files dns myhostname"
2021-07-01 22:46:54	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/pzSsHt7
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2021-07-01 22:47:02	rascul	i wonder though if libvirt/vbox/vmware/whatever hasn't setup the relevant networking stuff
2021-07-01 22:47:06	powerhouse_	firewalld is turned on
2021-07-01 22:47:32	Dagmar	firewalld won't impact normal dns queries
2021-07-01 22:47:33	rascul	powerhouse_ that's a very different error and is because yum is being run twice at once and isn't related to what we're troubleshooting
2021-07-01 22:47:54	Dagmar	Holy cripes imgbb is slow
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2021-07-01 22:48:13	rascul	it's fast for me
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2021-07-01 22:48:21	matsaman	sure it is, bb
2021-07-01 22:48:23	rascul	i guess imgbb is hosted next door or something
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2021-07-01 22:49:02	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/Js1cVRn
2021-07-01 22:49:09	Dagmar	The automatic check for updates is stuck (obvs)
2021-07-01 22:49:27	rascul	well nsswitch.conf looks to me like it's good enough
2021-07-01 22:49:34	rascul	powerhouse_ now do:   ip a
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2021-07-01 22:49:59	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/7NKKG3Q
2021-07-01 22:50:13	rascul	powerhouse_ ok now do:    ip r
2021-07-01 22:50:32	Dagmar	I suspect there's a geoip load balancing issue with i.ibb.co
2021-07-01 22:50:45	ayecee	oooh, i like it
2021-07-01 22:51:21	rascul	Dagmar wasn't there a geoip related dislike last night?
2021-07-01 22:51:22	Dagmar	Something routing connections via dns queries from DoH providers to some datacenter in Japan
2021-07-01 22:51:24	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/j8j49Qn
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2021-07-01 22:51:41	Dagmar	rascul: The images on there are literally taking _whole minutes_ to load in Chrome
2021-07-01 22:51:52	Dagmar	Wget?  *ZAP*downloaded
2021-07-01 22:52:01	rascul	powerhouse_ that link is bad
2021-07-01 22:52:07	sumthing1980	when using mkdir in a loop is there a way to supress messages like dir already exists?
2021-07-01 22:52:15	e36freak	sumthing1980: mkdir -p
2021-07-01 22:52:20	Dagmar	sumthing1980: -p generally shuts it the heck up
2021-07-01 22:52:27	powerhouse_	rascul, 155.138.210.218 is the ip I need ssh to
2021-07-01 22:52:37	sumthing1980	ok thanks
2021-07-01 22:52:58	rascul	powerhouse_ still need output of     ip r
2021-07-01 22:53:03	rascul	your last link was broken
2021-07-01 22:53:22	Dagmar	rascul: I dunno about any other errors.  I do know I've dealt with three support calls from people who can't get into freakin' MatrixCare because of some garbage routing _somewhere_ but I've been unable to track down here
2021-07-01 22:53:59	rascul	Dagmar i think it was last night i was explaining why it's very unreliable to get a location from an ip
2021-07-01 22:54:03	Dagmar	I had to reach in and set up fixed paths based on the IP addresses alone so the traffic for that one freakin' site goes through the VPN back to us to sidestep the issue
2021-07-01 22:54:13	Dagmar	Ah, yea, it's horrible fallible
2021-07-01 22:54:16	Dagmar	er horribly
2021-07-01 22:54:41	powerhouse_	rascul, https://ibb.co/nCW4hbR
2021-07-01 22:54:42	<--	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:54:57	Dagmar	Cell phones and social media are making it _marginally_ better, but most folks just don't publish geoip information, and they probably shoudln't
2021-07-01 22:55:03	rascul	powerhouse_ that one doesn't work either, ibb.co is saying it doesn't exist
2021-07-01 22:55:08	Dagmar	It makes way more sense to use @!#$@#$ ASNs for that anyway
2021-07-01 22:55:11	powerhouse_	rascul, sorry
2021-07-01 22:55:16	powerhouse_	will double check them for now on
2021-07-01 22:55:36	rascul	i'm not saying you're doing something wrong, it could be ibb.co having isssues also
2021-07-01 22:55:36	powerhouse_	https://ibb.co/nCW4hbR
2021-07-01 22:55:46	Dagmar	I suspect the main issue is that only networking engineers know what an ASN is and understand BGP but middle managers recognize the word "database" real quick
2021-07-01 22:55:48	rascul	same thing, that page does not exist
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2021-07-01 22:55:55	rascul	maybe try https://imgur.com/upload
2021-07-01 22:56:04	--	__jmcantrell__ is now known as jmcantrell
2021-07-01 22:56:07	Dagmar	rascul: You may be onto something there about ibb
2021-07-01 22:56:25	-->	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 22:56:25	Dagmar	It's a near certainty they have at least one load balancer and probably a database backend
2021-07-01 22:56:42	powerhouse_	rascul, Weird this ip 155.138.210.218 was pinging yesterday
2021-07-01 22:56:44	rascul	Dagmar something certainly seems to be going on but i'll leave it to someone else to care
2021-07-01 22:56:50	rascul	powerhouse_ can you ping the ip now?
2021-07-01 22:56:55	powerhouse_	negative
2021-07-01 22:57:06	rascul	it would be really helpful to see output of:    ip r
2021-07-01 22:57:09	Dagmar	hping?
2021-07-01 22:57:21	rascul	try not using ibb.co this time though
2021-07-01 22:57:51	vwork	You can synergize their databases with BGP and ASN, for an extra fee of course, Dagmar.
2021-07-01 22:57:57	Dagmar	vwork: Ugh
2021-07-01 22:58:00	vwork	:)
2021-07-01 22:58:22	Dagmar	I have been known to react badly in meetings when salesmen decided to spout off.
2021-07-01 22:58:34	<--	apn_ (~apn@pool-108-54-193-130.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:58:37	Dagmar	I feel kinda bad about it, _sometimes_
2021-07-01 22:58:46	 *	rascul notifies oracle that vwork is using vbox extensions at work
2021-07-01 22:59:12	<--	Wouter0100 (~Wouter010@entry.nbg.netvos.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-01 22:59:13	vwork	Damn you Oracle
2021-07-01 22:59:18	Dagmar	The last time I was on a conference call with a vendor and I had some _serious_ technical questions I was there because I was *told* there would be an "engineer" on the call
2021-07-01 22:59:21	powerhouse_	rascul, sorry had to use same site, I am unable to install more apps on this phone.  https://ibb.co/8c5FGLD
2021-07-01 22:59:30	Dagmar	It turned out they were a "sales engineer"
2021-07-01 22:59:48	vwork	One of the more laughable titles in recent history
2021-07-01 22:59:49	Dagmar	I had to apologize to the guy because out of my mouth slipped, "Oh... A _sales_ engineer."
2021-07-01 22:59:59	rascul	powerhouse_ that site doesn't work anymore, we're not getting anywhere
2021-07-01 23:00:02	ayecee	oh snap
2021-07-01 23:00:09	powerhouse_	wtf...
2021-07-01 23:00:09	 *	iflema you got a problem with click
2021-07-01 23:00:10	Dagmar	The tone was about like you might say "Oh, a *special* child."
2021-07-01 23:00:10	powerhouse_	sec
2021-07-01 23:00:54	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-01 23:01:09	Dagmar	They're nice enough people but I had questions that would not even remotely be fair to spring on one
2021-07-01 23:01:25	rascul	powerhouse_ see    https://i.imgur.com/WjKxuON.png
2021-07-01 23:01:30	powerhouse_	rascul, https://pasteboard.co/K9fifp8.jpg
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2021-07-01 23:01:51	rascul	powerhouse_ says Image not found
2021-07-01 23:01:57	-->	digup (~digup@58-7-236-103.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #linux
2021-07-01 23:02:07	powerhouse_	rascul, works for me
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2021-07-01 23:02:49	ayecee	well but that doesn't help much when you want it to work for rascul
2021-07-01 23:03:01	Dagmar	Oooo
2021-07-01 23:03:04	Dagmar	I see something
2021-07-01 23:03:09	Dagmar	Or rather, I *don't* see something
2021-07-01 23:03:19	rascul	doesn't work for me   https://i.imgur.com/2Mg6Xml.png
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2021-07-01 23:03:47	Dagmar	the p8.jpg image link worked for me
2021-07-01 23:03:59	<--	Spawns_Carpeting (~pi@user/spawns-carpeting/x-6969421) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-01 23:04:00	Dagmar	Veddy unusual
2021-07-01 23:04:01	rascul	still not working for me
2021-07-01 23:04:07	powerhouse_	rascul, this work https://ibb.co/nCW4hbR
2021-07-01 23:04:13	Dagmar	rascul: The TL;DR is there's no lo interface apparently
2021-07-01 23:04:16	rascul	no, ibb.co doesn't work
2021-07-01 23:04:37	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-01 23:05:02	rascul	Dagmar heh that might be the problem
2021-07-01 23:05:09	powerhouse_	rascul, this? pasteboard.co/K9fifp8.jpg
2021-07-01 23:05:18	rascul	powerhouse_ nope
2021-07-01 23:05:24	rascul	try https://imgur.com/upload
2021-07-01 23:05:33	<--	zeden (~zeden@user/zeden) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-07-01 23:05:34	Dagmar	Also the gateway is a little mad
2021-07-01 23:05:37	powerhouse_	k something is up with your connection surely
2021-07-01 23:05:55	<--	pikudoz (~pikudoz@190.117.229.223) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-01 23:05:56	rascul	interesting that you're the one with connection issues heh
2021-07-01 23:06:11	rascul	i dunno what's going on with pasteboard and ibb.co but it's not my end
2021-07-01 23:06:16	Dagmar	Usually you get the gateway address *and* the size of the network it's on
2021-07-01 23:06:18	twainwek	good morning
2021-07-01 23:06:57	Dagmar	This one's just "155.138.204.218 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src 155.138.204.218 metric 100"
2021-07-01 23:07:31	Dagmar	I can't say for sure that that's wrong, but the localhost interface being missing or broken is kinda known to break a lot of stuff in really weird ways
2021-07-01 23:07:37	rascul	might be at&t messing with stuff that's keeping me from those sites though, i dunno
2021-07-01 23:07:40	powerhouse_	rascul, https://imgur.com/jXs4I0P
2021-07-01 23:07:54	 *	Dagmar makes the sign of the horns in AT&T's general direction
2021-07-01 23:08:01	rascul	ahh there we go, could you share again:   ip a
2021-07-01 23:08:05	rascul	i lost that one
2021-07-01 23:08:10	powerhouse_	https://imgur.com/jXs4I0P
2021-07-01 23:08:51	Dagmar	powerhouse_: What did you do to destroy the lo interface?
2021-07-01 23:09:05	rascul	that's not    ip a
2021-07-01 23:09:07	powerhouse_	nothing havent done much on this machine
2021-07-01 23:09:12	rascul	i need    ip a
2021-07-01 23:09:27	rascul	was shared earlier but i lost it with all thg linke
2021-07-01 23:09:30	rascul	*the links
2021-07-01 23:09:31	Dagmar	The first entry in there should be for lo
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2021-07-01 23:10:13	rascul	Dagmar all i can come up with off the top of my head is maybe the cidr isn't shown when it's /32
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2021-07-01 23:11:10	powerhouse_	rascul, https://pasteboard.co/K9fm5mq.png
2021-07-01 23:11:23	rascul	tells me image not found
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2021-07-01 23:11:39	mybalzitch	works for me
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2021-07-01 23:11:48	powerhouse_	rascul, https://pasteboard.co/K9fm5mq.png
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2021-07-01 23:12:39	Dagmar	rascul: yeah I'm fairly used to looking at route, and a single static entry will work but it's odd
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2021-07-01 23:12:42	rascul	the pasteboard.co issue is on my end
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2021-07-01 23:12:52	rascul	i must be blocking too much garbage for the garbage site to work
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2021-07-01 23:13:35	pnbeast	It looks like some highly JS infested crap.  It shows a grey background for me.
2021-07-01 23:13:41	rascul	or it just doesn't work in firefox here with all blocking turned off so whatever
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2021-07-01 23:13:48	rascul	garbage sites are garbage regardless
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2021-07-01 23:14:23	Dagmar	oh lord
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2021-07-01 23:15:01	rascul	works on my phone though in firefox with blocking, interestingly enough
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2021-07-01 23:15:19	rascul	i'm just going to blame pasteboard.co because i'm perfect
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2021-07-01 23:15:31	pnbeast	Like Perfect Tommy?
2021-07-01 23:15:39	rascul	no, i'm perfect rascul
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2021-07-01 23:16:08	Dagmar	Someone shoudl find a sharp object and stab whatever's setting the 155 address
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2021-07-01 23:17:47	Dagmar	Is this thing the result of some VPS provider's "special sauce" distro/container?
2021-07-01 23:18:00	powerhouse_	smells like it
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2021-07-01 23:19:01	Dagmar	I can think of no other reason there'd be a bloody /10 netblock and a /32 network
2021-07-01 23:19:06	rascul	it is an interesting set of ip addresses
2021-07-01 23:19:21	rascul	maybe just try ipv6 heh
2021-07-01 23:19:33	Dagmar	Can't hurt
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2021-07-01 23:20:01	rascul	at least then you can tell provider their ipv4 is fucked up
2021-07-01 23:20:07	rascul	er, screwed up
2021-07-01 23:20:33	rascul	i mean, if ipv6 works
2021-07-01 23:20:41	rascul	wait is this the local or remote end?
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2021-07-01 23:21:02	rascul	it's local in a vm?
2021-07-01 23:21:05	Dagmar	Ahh it's cgnat
2021-07-01 23:21:12	twainwek	i have a dd operation that's been stuck
2021-07-01 23:21:13	rascul	oh
2021-07-01 23:21:14	twainwek	what do?
2021-07-01 23:21:18	powerhouse_	this is the console panel on the provider
2021-07-01 23:21:32	Dagmar	Break out tcpdump
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2021-07-01 23:21:53	Dagmar	Sometimes you just gotta look at WTF is going on
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2021-07-01 23:21:58	rascul	powerhouse_ at this point i would find a different provider
2021-07-01 23:22:12	twainwek	i can't even cancel the dd operation by sending sigterm to it
2021-07-01 23:22:27	Dagmar	twainwek: That depends.  Unless you're 100% certain it's actually stuck, run `sudo iostat 2` and make sure there's no more I/O actually happening
2021-07-01 23:22:41	rascul	twainwek stuck on io? what is the process status?
2021-07-01 23:22:50	Dagmar	It sounds like it's stuck in kernelspace tho, so I'm guessing "hard drive" and "just died"
2021-07-01 23:22:54	twainwek	stuck on xxxx bytes for 15 minutes
2021-07-01 23:22:58	rascul	also check dmesg
2021-07-01 23:22:58	powerhouse_	rascul, so what is the problem? We cant get yum to download?
2021-07-01 23:23:07	twainwek	 [sdc] No Caching mode page found
2021-07-01 23:23:14	rascul	powerhouse_ the problem is for whatever reason the networking is all jacked up
2021-07-01 23:23:17	kirk781	yum has been replaced by dnf for quite some time now right?
2021-07-01 23:23:24	powerhouse_	rascul, ill send in a ticket but last time they said I have to confugre it
2021-07-01 23:23:32	Dagmar	kirk781: Except yum is still in there doing the dirty work
2021-07-01 23:23:34	rascul	powerhouse_ ditch that junk provider
2021-07-01 23:23:39	twainwek	can i just sigkill it
2021-07-01 23:23:40	powerhouse_	kirk781, negative yum is for centos dnf is for fedora
2021-07-01 23:24:05	Dagmar	twainwek: You can try but it's unlikely to really do anything
2021-07-01 23:24:05	rascul	powerhouse_ if you can't get a vps with networking working out of the box then that provider is junk
2021-07-01 23:24:13	kirk781	Press F for Cent OS
2021-07-01 23:24:18	twainwek	fsck it, im gnna kill it by force
2021-07-01 23:24:21	Dagmar	twainwek: You really don't see anything upsetting at the end of dmesg?
2021-07-01 23:24:27	kirk781	Since it is replaced by Cent OS Stream now
2021-07-01 23:24:43	Dagmar	Stuff that looks an awful lot like a message that the hard drive has just quit talking to you
2021-07-01 23:24:51	rascul	powerhouse_ the cheapest, crappiest, fly by night vps providers still get networking functional out of the box
2021-07-01 23:24:55	Dagmar	kirk781: I'm already migrating stuff to Rocky
2021-07-01 23:25:00	twainwek	rofl i can't even kill it
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2021-07-01 23:25:11	sickdyd	I have a website that displays a country flag based on the IP of the request; how reliable is a VPN to verify that it works? I'm getting weird results
2021-07-01 23:25:15	twainwek	i do... i see a '[sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk' ....
2021-07-01 23:25:17	Dagmar	powerhouse_: THe existance of the loopback interface is somewhat _mandatory_ for normal Unix networking
2021-07-01 23:25:26	twainwek	which kind of makes me think that the drive got disconnected mid dd
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2021-07-01 23:25:44	sickdyd	I wonder if an actual average user connecting from X country would be more likely to see the correct flag compared to a request done through a VPN
2021-07-01 23:25:50	kirk781	Dagmar, I used Cent OS back in the day on my home system for some reason.
2021-07-01 23:25:51	Dagmar	twainwek: Usually an unexpected removal results in some log messages
2021-07-01 23:25:52	rascul	twainwek check ps, is state for the process D or Z?
2021-07-01 23:26:02	rascul	state, status, or whatever STAT is for
2021-07-01 23:26:20	twainwek	it ended
2021-07-01 23:26:28	twainwek	dont know if it ended or got killed
2021-07-01 23:26:32	twainwek	re-attempting
2021-07-01 23:26:33	rascul	sickdyd the ip is not reliable for location
2021-07-01 23:27:06	rascul	there's nothing about ip that relates an address to a location, and there's nothing about ip that says a user must use the ip from the location you think the ip is at
2021-07-01 23:27:37	Dagmar	VPN providers making a thing of evading geographic embargoes generally go to the trouble of publishing a lat/long for their netblock
2021-07-01 23:27:41	sickdyd	"MaxMind tests the accuracy of the GeoIP2 and GeoIP Legacy Databases on a periodic basis. In our recent tests, the downloadable databases were 99.8% accurate on a country level..." ---> https://support.maxmind.com/
2021-07-01 23:27:48	rascul	right
2021-07-01 23:27:55	rascul	maxmind will of course tell you they're highly accurate
2021-07-01 23:27:58	Dagmar	sickdyd: They are VERY full of that which makes the flowers grow all pretty
2021-07-01 23:28:09	rascul	what they don't tell you is the db is completely filled with voluntary submissions
2021-07-01 23:28:11	powerhouse_	rascul, alright sent in a ticket requesting they complete this
2021-07-01 23:28:23	sickdyd	oh... interesting
2021-07-01 23:28:24	rascul	powerhouse_ send in a ticket to cancel the account quit dealing with this junk
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2021-07-01 23:28:46	Dagmar	Going by whole countries isn't even really that reliable with the existance of mobile providers that span entire regions
2021-07-01 23:29:01	rascul	powerhouse_ try digitalocean or linode where this standard stuff that was figured out in the '80s actually works
2021-07-01 23:29:20	rascul	or vultr or almost anything else
2021-07-01 23:29:22	Dagmar	If you want to know where your site's visitors are, just ask them
2021-07-01 23:29:25	sickdyd	I guess the only thing that I could use is the Geolocation API; the problem is that it asks the user to accept :>
2021-07-01 23:29:38	Dagmar	Yeah that's becuase it's _stalky AF_
2021-07-01 23:29:41	rascul	sickdyd query browser for location
2021-07-01 23:29:46	rascul	there's an api for that
2021-07-01 23:29:55	rascul	just ask the client where they are, best solution
2021-07-01 23:30:06	rascul	if they tell you wrong it's 100% on them
2021-07-01 23:30:13	Dagmar	At least if they don't refuse the browser request you'll know that 1) they're not going to be mad at you for peeping on them and 2) the information might actually be correct
2021-07-01 23:30:39	sickdyd	yeah right, but this is to captivate the user's attention telling "hey, we sill ship to :flag-country: in a week!"
2021-07-01 23:30:47	sickdyd	will *
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2021-07-01 23:30:59	rascul	i guess that's fine if you don't care how relevant it is
2021-07-01 23:31:07	Dagmar	Amazon can have jellybeans on my front porch by 8am
2021-07-01 23:31:11	rascul	if you want to keep using geoip i mean
2021-07-01 23:31:13	Dagmar	You're not that special.
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2021-07-01 23:31:26	sickdyd	rascul: query browser for location?
2021-07-01 23:31:28	rascul	Dagmar you told amazon where your front porch is, though
2021-07-01 23:31:34	rascul	sickdyd yes, there's a browser location api
2021-07-01 23:31:36	Dagmar	That's because I want the jelly beans
2021-07-01 23:31:41	sickdyd	rascul: thanks, will look it up
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2021-07-01 23:31:48	rascul	sickdyd https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation_API
2021-07-01 23:31:51	rascul	maybe start there
2021-07-01 23:31:57	sickdyd	ahh yeah that's the one I meant above
2021-07-01 23:31:58	Kyv	Support your local jelly beans
2021-07-01 23:32:07	sickdyd	it's perfect, but it asks for permission
2021-07-01 23:32:08	Dagmar	If you try and guess with geoip and _guess wrong_ you're going to not only possibly be giving incorrect shipping information, you'll look incompetent.
2021-07-01 23:32:18	sickdyd	Dagmar: exactly
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2021-07-01 23:32:22	rascul	it's supposed to ask for permission
2021-07-01 23:32:24	Dagmar	The latter will very much cost you money
2021-07-01 23:32:36	rascul	note that what i linked to is *not* the geoip from maxmind
2021-07-01 23:32:46	rascul	it's an actuall api to query the location from the client's browser
2021-07-01 23:32:50	Dagmar	MAke the API query of the browser, _then_ provide shipping info
2021-07-01 23:32:50	sickdyd	rascul: yeah, I know, I used the Geolocation API before
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2021-07-01 23:33:07	sickdyd	the problem is that my boss doesn't want to have a pop up for permission
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2021-07-01 23:33:18	rascul	then tell your boss it's impossible
2021-07-01 23:33:22	Dagmar	Anyone who refuses that isn't going to worry that the little box says "We can only guess where you are, but we ship to most places in under a week."
2021-07-01 23:33:24	sickdyd	haha :>
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2021-07-01 23:33:26	rascul	make up shit to make him happy
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2021-07-01 23:33:51	rascul	he probably doesn't know anything anyway, just throw some big words in there
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2021-07-01 23:33:55	sickdyd	yeah, I mean, he had a reasonable request, turns out to be very hard or impossible, therefore let's move on
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2021-07-01 23:34:28	rascul	maybe explain that doing it the easy way makes you look incompetent and the only competent way to do it is ask for permission
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2021-07-01 23:34:40	rascul	presumably he doesn't want to look incompetent
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2021-07-01 23:34:59	Dagmar	"The request was not resolvable in a reliable way, but I have a much more reliable alternative"
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2021-07-01 23:35:35	rascul	telling boss to shut the hell up and let me do it properly is probably something Dagmar has some experience with
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2021-07-01 23:35:46	Dagmar	Yes
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2021-07-01 23:35:51	sickdyd	lol
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2021-07-01 23:35:59	sickdyd	anyway thanks, guys
2021-07-01 23:36:01	<--	aachi (~aachi@2001:470:69fc:105::832) has quit (Quit: node-irc says goodbye)
2021-07-01 23:36:02	Dagmar	Although I'm WAY more strategic in how I handle that disclosure
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2021-07-01 23:36:31	twainwek	i tried dd again and again it got stuck at 4664066048 bytes
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2021-07-01 23:36:36	Dagmar	You don't want to say "it's hard" because they'll decide that means it's _possible_ and -reasonable- and they'll just go looking for someone else to do it that will *lie* to them
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2021-07-01 23:36:49	Dagmar	twainwek: That's a bad sign
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2021-07-01 23:36:53	twainwek	:(
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2021-07-01 23:37:13	rascul	twainwek seems like your trash can might get a little bit heavier in the near future
2021-07-01 23:37:27	twainwek	>:(
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2021-07-01 23:37:32	rascul	but check smartctl and stuff
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2021-07-01 23:37:49	Dagmar	"SCSI removable disk"
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2021-07-01 23:38:12	rascul	i have removed scsi disks before
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2021-07-01 23:38:39	twainwek	OH SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP it ended.... will it work tho
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2021-07-01 23:38:47	rascul	probably not but maybe
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2021-07-01 23:39:06	rascul	still check smartctl that should be the first place to look when your disk seems wonky, do a long test
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2021-07-01 23:39:09	Dagmar	twainwek: Is this flash media?
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2021-07-01 23:39:25	twainwek	ya its a usb stick
2021-07-01 23:39:27	rascul	oh yeah some things aren't smart
2021-07-01 23:39:30	Dagmar	It's write cache
2021-07-01 23:39:33	Dagmar	...and _normal_
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2021-07-01 23:39:58	rascul	ahh usb stick those things are generally junk and do this weird slowness hangs all the time when doing big writes
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2021-07-01 23:40:07	Dagmar	BEcause the write speed on the media is actually quite slow you're just getting gigglebytes of it piled up in the write cache (i.e., system memory)
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2021-07-01 23:40:12	rascul	the good ones are too expensive to bother with normally
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2021-07-01 23:40:24	Dagmar	All that time spent apparently doing not a damn thing is the result of a sync() call that has not returned
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2021-07-01 23:40:39	Dagmar	...because it's going to take awhile to flush all that out to the thumbdrive.
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2021-07-01 23:41:03	Dagmar	You can make it less nondeterministic by makign dd call a sync after each block but screw that it's inefficient
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2021-07-01 23:41:38	Dagmar	If you unplug it before that writing is done tho... data corruption is yours to enjoy
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2021-07-01 23:42:18	matsaman	you can tell it to not pretend it's written data it hasn't actually written
2021-07-01 23:42:21	matsaman	but I forget the specifics
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2021-07-01 23:42:33	Dagmar	It's not pretending
2021-07-01 23:42:37	Dagmar	It called write()
2021-07-01 23:42:40	matsaman	sure it is, it's not on the disk
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2021-07-01 23:42:46	Dagmar	As far as it's concerned, it's done with that data
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2021-07-01 23:42:55	matsaman	yeah but it's not =P
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2021-07-01 23:43:08	Dagmar	It could literally go ahead and exit and the kernel woudl continue to drain the buffer on it's own
2021-07-01 23:43:09	matsaman	as far as a human is concerned, cp/et al. should finish when the data has reached the destination
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2021-07-01 23:43:24	matsaman	anyway, IIRC simply not using FAT ever also solves that problem =P
2021-07-01 23:43:28	Dagmar	Life would be MUCH more painful if the kernel weren't allowed to use a write cache
2021-07-01 23:43:38	Dagmar	This is a matter of just knowing when to call sync()
2021-07-01 23:43:52	matsaman	yup, or using the GUI to do the 'safe' nonsense
2021-07-01 23:44:02	matsaman	it's still silly and counterintuitive, for USB sticks
2021-07-01 23:44:10	matsaman	but, again, FAT is pretty silly
2021-07-01 23:44:52	Dagmar	WEll, it's a very very lightweight device for storing data
2021-07-01 23:45:05	Dagmar	Short of encrypting the thing, permissions are worthless
2021-07-01 23:45:15	Dagmar	...cuz possession and 90%
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2021-07-01 23:45:31	matsaman	yup
2021-07-01 23:45:42	matsaman	not that anybody knows that
2021-07-01 23:45:50	matsaman	just you and I and like five other people in the whole world
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2021-07-01 23:46:16	matsaman	we should just band together and be theives
2021-07-01 23:46:18	matsaman	thieves*
2021-07-01 23:46:59	Dagmar	Nah it's too much fun when people find out the hard way
2021-07-01 23:47:03	Dagmar	Usually that invovles paying me money
2021-07-01 23:47:33	matsaman	now that I think about it
2021-07-01 23:47:34	Dagmar	It puts the "fun" in "fungible"
2021-07-01 23:47:40	matsaman	the "funniest" thing about it is
2021-07-01 23:47:48	matsaman	when I tell people we can still get to their data
2021-07-01 23:47:58	matsaman	they never ask "how? It was password protected!"
2021-07-01 23:48:01	matsaman	not ever
2021-07-01 23:48:04	Dagmar	Security descriptors that can't be enforced are just wasted storage, and potentially a liability
2021-07-01 23:48:15	matsaman	how someone can be so uncurious is really confounding
2021-07-01 23:48:30	powerhouse_	rascul, tech told me this is not out of the box vps as it's a ipv6 with an ipv4 additional add on
2021-07-01 23:48:32	Dagmar	matsaman: They remain ignorant so they can pay you money for knowing
2021-07-01 23:48:49	matsaman	maybe they really are blissfully so
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2021-07-01 23:49:10	Dagmar	Well, until they find out forensics investigators cost more than hookers
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2021-07-01 23:49:28	rascul	powerhouse_ what provider is this?
2021-07-01 23:49:34	Dagmar	...and we're not talking streetcorner hos
2021-07-01 23:49:37	powerhouse_	rascul, vultr.com
2021-07-01 23:49:45	rascul	huh
2021-07-01 23:49:55	rascul	i've never had networking not work out of the box with vultr
2021-07-01 23:50:28	rascul	and this ipv6 with ipv4 addon must be new because it used to be the other way around when i used them
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2021-07-01 23:50:30	ayecee	maybe it did work out of the box
2021-07-01 23:50:42	matsaman	later on ye
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2021-07-01 23:51:29	rascul	also i think we may have had a mixup in troubleshooting with local vs remote
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2021-07-01 23:51:49	rascul	but i'm going to bed and can't do much more
2021-07-01 23:52:07	powerhouse_	rascul, thanks for help ill finish with the tech they are pretty fast
2021-07-01 23:52:16	wr	would apt-get purge $( dpkg --list | grep -P -o "linux-image-\d\S+" | grep -v $(uname -r | grep -P -o ".+\d") ), remove my old kernels?
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2021-07-01 23:54:59	Dagmar	I suspect the missing lo interface is the fatal flaw
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2021-07-01 23:56:16	wr	also wanna remove old kernel headers
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2021-07-02 00:00:44	Kyv	Try it and see.
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2021-07-02 00:10:00	zumba_addict	hey guys. I'm currently running tar on a remote machine. I forgot to start screen. I don't want to ctrl+c the tar. How do I attach that session within my new terminal with screen running already?
2021-07-02 00:11:04	mlu	zumba_addict: I'm afraid you can't move it
2021-07-02 00:11:10	zumba_addict	got it
2021-07-02 00:11:16	mlu	zumba_addict; you can, however, background the process and let it run though
2021-07-02 00:11:18	zumba_addict	i'll just wait for it to finish then
2021-07-02 00:11:28	zumba_addict	ah ctrl-z?
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2021-07-02 00:12:47	zumba_addict	i ran jobs on the other new terminal but it didn't list the job
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2021-07-02 00:13:37	zumba_addict	i ran screens, jobs output was still empty
2021-07-02 00:13:40	<--	tbcr (~tbcr@user/tbcr) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-02 00:14:04	twainwek	c-z suspends the application
2021-07-02 00:15:50	zumba_addict	i ran bg and now it's in the background
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2021-07-02 00:16:33	zumba_addict	i don't know if i still should run `disown`
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2021-07-02 00:19:36	P4ddyF	cool
2021-07-02 00:19:38	zumba_addict	i think it's good even without screen
2021-07-02 00:19:57	zumba_addict	it's now running in the background. Let me disconnect my ssh and reconnect
2021-07-02 00:20:09	Sauvin	NO.
2021-07-02 00:20:12	twainwek	ok you may disconnect
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2021-07-02 00:20:21	twainwek	nevermind sauvin said no
2021-07-02 00:20:44	zumba_addict	excellent, the tar commands are still running
2021-07-02 00:21:09	Sauvin	If that job is important at all, and you need it SOON, I'd let it run. I don't know this for sure, but I *believe* that anything running under your connection shell, including background jobs, will be lost.
2021-07-02 00:21:22	zumba_addict	it didn't get lost
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2021-07-02 00:21:24	mlu	zumba_addict: ctrl+z, bg
2021-07-02 00:21:33	zumba_addict	yep, mlu that's what I did :)
2021-07-02 00:21:35	mlu	zumba_addict: and be sure to 'exit' or else the process will be killed with the shell
2021-07-02 00:21:36	Sauvin	You backgrounded it, quit that shell and it's still running?
2021-07-02 00:21:36	zumba_addict	it's amazing
2021-07-02 00:21:44	zumba_addict	yes, it's still running
2021-07-02 00:21:48	mlu	and if you need it back in the foreground, you can just `fg <pid>`
2021-07-02 00:21:49	zumba_addict	and target dir is growing
2021-07-02 00:21:50	Sauvin	Freaking cool!
2021-07-02 00:21:55	zumba_addict	thank you mlu
2021-07-02 00:22:08	twainwek	if you bg, does the ppid change?
2021-07-02 00:22:10	Sauvin	I'll have to test that sometime. I've always run stuff I wanted to keep in a screen.
2021-07-02 00:22:23	zumba_addict	i didn't pay attention to the ppid
2021-07-02 00:22:46	mlu	yep, the ctrl+z + bg is my backup plan when I screw up and forget to run screen
2021-07-02 00:22:55	mlu	it's like what happens when I leave my house without my pants
2021-07-02 00:23:01	zumba_addict	:D
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2021-07-02 00:23:16	mlu	answer: notice, get back in there and fix it :)
2021-07-02 00:23:18	Sauvin	I keep a screen running *anyway* and when I want new stuff, I just ^A^C.
2021-07-02 00:23:28	zumba_addict	screen is cool too
2021-07-02 00:23:36	mlu	^A^D :)
2021-07-02 00:23:39	P4ddyF	hang on please, you used the disown+reptyr magic, right?
2021-07-02 00:23:42	Sauvin	Screen, tmux, whatever. *Something*.
2021-07-02 00:23:50	mlu	or if it's a script, I usually like to tee a logfile somewhere so I don't need a screen
2021-07-02 00:23:57	zumba_addict	i only ran ctrl+z, bg and disown
2021-07-02 00:23:58	mlu	then I can just tail -f it: tty free
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2021-07-02 00:24:20	 *	mlu likes *NIX
2021-07-02 00:24:28	P4ddyF	i hope i remember this, because this is really useful
2021-07-02 00:24:42	zumba_addict	ok folks, brb, I'll have a quick workout in the gym
2021-07-02 00:24:49	mlu	P4ddyF: I suggest you practice :)
2021-07-02 00:24:58	P4ddyF	mlu: :)
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2021-07-02 00:25:21	mlu	P4ddyF: the keywords to google this up is: "put interactive process into background"
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2021-07-02 00:26:11	mlu	it's like a fire, except it's stop, background, and drop insteaad of stop, drop, and roll
2021-07-02 00:26:21	fling	should I use gplv3?
2021-07-02 00:26:24	mlu	you try to drop after you stop: you can't drop ;)
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2021-07-02 00:26:36	mlu	fling: you should consult your lawyer
2021-07-02 00:26:43	fling	right
2021-07-02 00:26:47	Sauvin	I think what I used to do back in the dialup days was nohup whatever &
2021-07-02 00:26:57	mlu	fling: or, more practically, use gplv3 if you want to keep your software and its derivatives copyleft
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2021-07-02 00:27:16	mlu	there's a bit more protections in it than gplv2 -- but note that Linux itself is gplv2
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2021-07-02 00:27:27	mlu	Sauvin: good ol' no-hiccup
2021-07-02 00:27:35	mlu	immune to the hiccups of the stop
2021-07-02 00:28:33	Kyv	It is going to be in the job control section of the manual in bash, it is a built-in.
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2021-07-02 00:30:15	Kyv	As they say, the most reliable documentation is included.
2021-07-02 00:30:17	Kyv	Ideally.
2021-07-02 00:30:20	mlu	fling: I personally prefer more permissive licenses since I prefer my code to be usable for those in corporations too
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2021-07-02 00:31:19	P4ddyF	the free software foundation has a channel where you can ask about license stuff
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2021-07-02 00:31:46	fling	mlu: what if it is a bash script?
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2021-07-02 00:36:46	mlu	fling: I usually public domain those
2021-07-02 00:36:55	Kyv	Well and good until the code is used in an indefensible way, but the psychological burden wont be there because you probably wont know.
2021-07-02 00:37:11	mlu	fling: do you care if you get credit for it?
2021-07-02 00:37:28	mlu	and also: do you care if someone fradulently claims credit for it?
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2021-07-02 00:37:47	mlu	if the first is no but the second is yes, I suggest a libpng/zlib type license
2021-07-02 00:37:59	fling	I mostly only want the improvements to be published if there are any
2021-07-02 00:38:00	mlu	if both are no, public domain: it just makes things much easier
2021-07-02 00:38:16	mlu	fling: yeah, gplv2 or gplv3 is appropriate
2021-07-02 00:38:26	fling	thanks :>
2021-07-02 00:38:33	fling	https://choosealicense.com/licenses/
2021-07-02 00:39:04	mlu	fling: just note that this may have the side effect of preventing those who refuse to share their improvements from using your script
2021-07-02 00:39:29	mlu	I hope that's consistent with your intention
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2021-07-02 00:53:24	Kyv	https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/intel/ thaaanks.
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2021-07-02 01:03:57	Kevlar_Noir	sudo coffee -M --verbose
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2021-07-02 01:04:14	Kevlar_Noir	hihihiihi
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2021-07-02 01:06:21	Kevlar_Noir	systemctl enable --now awakening.service
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2021-07-02 01:36:58	schillingklaus	at&t bells & whistles
2021-07-02 01:37:10	schillingklaus	ooops
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2021-07-02 02:11:01	kubast2	Hey say I have a following string: "aarch64-unknown-linux-*" how can I keep only the part that gets detected by * ?
2021-07-02 02:11:07	kubast2	with shell utilities
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2021-07-02 02:14:16	DPA	echo aarch64-unknown-linux-12345 | sed 's/^aarch64-unknown-linux-//'
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2021-07-02 02:24:13	kubast2	thanks
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2021-07-02 02:27:27	Dagmar	cut -d- -f4 but technically that's not a complete solution
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2021-07-02 02:28:47	schillingklaus	dagmar sounds like a movie director.
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2021-07-02 02:31:23	Sauvin	Yeah, some Czech or Italian or something.
2021-07-02 02:32:03	Kyv	Well thats a broad brush.
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2021-07-02 02:44:55	lopid	dennis's love interest
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2021-07-02 02:59:33	Kyv	Dennis cannot love.
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2021-07-02 03:05:17	kurahaupo	I've just started playing with "adb shell" to interrogate my phone. I tried ps -AT | wc -l (count all threads of all processes). I was rather surprised by the answer. Anyone care to guess what it was? Any answer within 5% will do
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2021-07-02 03:08:57	darshan	hello everyone
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2021-07-02 03:09:21	darshan	i am using mxlinux
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2021-07-02 03:11:04	akik	kurahaupo: 4
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2021-07-02 03:11:46	schillingklaus	mx is still number on on distrowatch ... for whatever reason
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2021-07-02 03:16:49	schillingklaus	i don't understand how the distrowatch ranking works, after all
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2021-07-02 03:17:49	darshan	The DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking statistics are a light-hearted way of measuring the popularity of Linux distributions and other free operating systems among the visitors of this website.
2021-07-02 03:18:43	Kyv	It says at the top of the ranking.
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2021-07-02 03:24:14	jim	hmm, more matrix glitches?
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2021-07-02 03:26:57	Sauvin	They happen from time to time. Annoying, but I can't see that anything can be done about it that won't annoy Matrix users more.
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2021-07-02 03:27:57	Kyv	https://matrix.org/blog/posts/ -- Guess they were getting hammered recently.
2021-07-02 03:28:03	Kyv	With spam
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2021-07-02 03:41:01	randomuser	Hey, is there any simple way to tell if a file contains a particular line without using grep?
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2021-07-02 03:41:38	akik	randomuser: you can read it
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2021-07-02 03:43:25	randomuser	In a shell script.
2021-07-02 03:43:45	jim	randomuser, or a c, or perl, or python program
2021-07-02 03:44:21	jim	howbout fgrep?
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2021-07-02 03:46:30	akik	no grep
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2021-07-02 03:48:13	godSend23	hey all
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2021-07-02 03:48:20	ZenixOwler	question, is there anyhow i can replace the newline of an output with a comma ? i was trying to use tr -d"\n" -f1, but it kinda delete the newline and keep on appending the output
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2021-07-02 03:50:15	TomyWork	ZenixOwler, tr '\n' ','
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2021-07-02 03:51:28	ZenixOwler	TomyWork: ok thank
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2021-07-02 03:51:36	godSend23	what's this for?
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2021-07-02 03:51:53	TomyWork	Sauvin, I thought you were gonna say "it happens when they change something" :D
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2021-07-02 03:52:13	ZenixOwler	godSend23: where you talking about my problem or ?
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2021-07-02 03:52:43	godSend23	yes
2021-07-02 03:52:44	-->	zeno (~zeno@2001:470:69fc:105::34d7) has joined #linux
2021-07-02 03:52:50	ZenixOwler	just parsing nmap's scan
2021-07-02 03:52:55	ZenixOwler	nothing too big of a deal
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2021-07-02 03:53:24	godSend23	ooh ok
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2021-07-02 03:54:34	godSend23	 can anybody rec and touch screen AI mftr of things?
2021-07-02 03:54:37	Kevlar_Noir	I don't know what to do
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2021-07-02 03:54:51	Kevlar_Noir	I'm depressive
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2021-07-02 04:17:12	kurahaupo	akik: off by at least 3 orders of magnitude
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2021-07-02 04:17:34	--	rtx_ is now known as rtx
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2021-07-02 04:20:20	TomyWork	Kevlar_Noir, find a good psychologist would be my advice
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2021-07-02 04:30:05	akik	kurahaupo: i forgot adb shell gives you a root shell?
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2021-07-02 04:35:17	kurahaupo	akik: only if you've already rooted the device (or installed a dev build of Android, which amounts to the same thing)
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2021-07-02 04:36:15	kurahaupo	But even an ordinary user can see a fair bit. 5172 threads in a phone. I wonder what they're all doing?
2021-07-02 04:36:21	kish`	is there a way to copy a text file to the clipboard by way of a commandline arg?
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2021-07-02 04:36:38	Kyv	kish`: with xclip, yes.
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2021-07-02 04:41:44	tfe	Hello there. I have a strange behavior between 2 debian dockers. I want to have an ssh connection between them with the user www-data.
2021-07-02 04:42:04	tfe	the connection works fine without any password prompt (id_rsa key used) with the root account
2021-07-02 04:42:15	tfe	but with www-data, same configuration, it keep asking me for the pasword
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2021-07-02 04:42:29	tfe	do you have anything i am missing?
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2021-07-02 04:43:58	akik	tfe: check the permissions on ~www-data/.ssh and the keys
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2021-07-02 04:46:02	tfe	i checked them, nothing on this side
2021-07-02 04:46:21	akik	tfe: they match the permissions that you have on the root account?
2021-07-02 04:46:37	tfe	exactly yes, only the user /group owne changes
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2021-07-02 04:47:26	akik	tfe: try running "journalctl -b 0 -u sshd -ef" and then try to login
2021-07-02 04:47:44	tfe	https://i.imgur.com/SR4eoU2.png
2021-07-02 04:47:58	tfe	ok i'll try this
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2021-07-02 04:48:17	akik	tfe: i think that world writable .ssh dir is the problem :)
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2021-07-02 04:49:02	tfe	oh gooooodd!
2021-07-02 04:49:12	tfe	thank you akik, i checked it 100 times
2021-07-02 04:49:33	akik	or 777 times
2021-07-02 04:49:43	tfe	haha
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2021-07-02 05:56:40	schillingklaus	one of the most upscaling distros according to distrowatch is garuda, which combines the horrors and perils of systemd, calamares, and rolling releases
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2021-07-02 05:59:24	Kyv	and it looks tacky, too.
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2021-07-02 06:01:09	Kyv	I dont know how that is not distracting.
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2021-07-02 06:11:28	dostoyevsky2	Are the HOME and USER environment variables in a bash script always guaranteed to be defined?
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2021-07-02 06:12:02	schillingklaus	systemd is about to do away with home
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2021-07-02 06:23:23	phogg	dostoyevsky2: the short answer is no, the longer answer is that you can probably always assume they're there
2021-07-02 06:24:09	dostoyevsky2	phogg: I am debugging a startup script where USER and HOME are not set, snowballing to problems with expanding ~ in another script
2021-07-02 06:24:14	phogg	dostoyevsky2: USER is traditionally set by login(1), so it is likely to exist so long as your login mechanism does this. It is possible that someone could unset it, but it's unlikely anyone would.
2021-07-02 06:24:33	phogg	I believe $HOME is the same (set by login or via pam, ultimately taken from passwd information)
2021-07-02 06:24:48	dostoyevsky2	phogg: yeah, but I think the rc scripts are not being spawned by login
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2021-07-02 06:25:14	phogg	dostoyevsky2: what kind of startup script?
2021-07-02 06:26:07	Kyv	If HOME is unset, the home directory of the user executing the shell is substituted instead. Otherwise the tilde prefix is replaced with the home directory associated with the specified login name.
2021-07-02 06:26:17	phogg	Right, rc scripts and things like /etc/init.d scripts are invoked directly from your initd. It is not necessarily going to define such env vars, but usually they will be defined to the values set for root in passwd
2021-07-02 06:26:18	dostoyevsky2	phogg: startup-script-url in of a google compute instance...
2021-07-02 06:27:00	phogg	dostoyevsky2: ~ will always expand in a shell (it can't fail to expand)
2021-07-02 06:28:39	phogg	hmm, at least that's true in bash
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2021-07-02 06:29:54	phogg	in bash cd ~ when HOME is unset will change to the user's home from passwd. In dash I just observed it failing to expand (much like a glob if there are no matches)
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2021-07-02 06:30:58	Kyv	That is the default argument for the cd builtin in bash.
2021-07-02 06:31:08	Kyv	~
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2021-07-02 06:39:00	phogg	in dash the behavior of 'cd' with no HOME is to do nothing (successfully), and cd ~ complains it cannot cd to '~' and exits unsuccessfully.
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2021-07-02 06:41:05	phogg	dostoyevsky2: you can always re-set the variables defensively: USER=$(getent passwd $(id -u) | cut -d: -f1); HOME=$(getent passwd $USER | cut -d: -f6)
2021-07-02 06:41:14	phogg	dostoyevsky2: and then: export USER HOME
2021-07-02 06:41:52	phogg	dostoyevsky2: this will only fail if the passwd db is not available, or if you don't have getent.
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2021-07-02 07:04:20	Dagmar	...or if the machine is, you know, *off*
2021-07-02 07:04:37	frojnd	Hi there
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2021-07-02 07:05:41	jim	hi
2021-07-02 07:05:42	frojnd	I would like to block all the network that comes from ip cam and ip cam sends ws-discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS-Discovery can I do this with just iptables? Smth like this? iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p 3702 -s 239.255.255.250 -j DROP
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2021-07-02 07:06:08	frojnd	3702 is tcp and udp port but not sure what's the iptables syntax
2021-07-02 07:06:27	frojnd	Just for the eth0 interface...
2021-07-02 07:06:55	jim	-A means add a rule
2021-07-02 07:07:05	frojnd	Yes.
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2021-07-02 07:07:25	jim	-j something means if the rule succeeds, go to something
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2021-07-02 07:08:45	jim	that looks good... what happens if you do it? (you do have physical access to the machine?)
2021-07-02 07:08:48	Dagmar	...or just assign it an IP address from a netblock you *don't* allow masquerading from
2021-07-02 07:08:54	frojnd	jim: yes
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2021-07-02 07:09:25	frojnd	Dagmar: can you write exact command? I am learning as I go :)
2021-07-02 07:10:00	Dagmar	I wrote an entire tutorial twenty years ago.
2021-07-02 07:10:21	jim	where is it?
2021-07-02 07:10:23	frojnd	You are the author of iptables?
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2021-07-02 07:10:59	Dagmar	I've no idea why you would think that.
2021-07-02 07:11:12	schillingklaus	dagmar wrote a tutorial about writing tutorials
2021-07-02 07:11:13	frojnd	iptables is *old*?
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2021-07-02 07:11:29	jim	almost nonexistant :)
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2021-07-02 07:11:51	Dagmar	There are literally dozens of iptables tutorials
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2021-07-02 07:12:43	schillingklaus	what was there before iptables? ipfwadmin?
2021-07-02 07:12:59	jim	ipchains?
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2021-07-02 07:13:59	Dagmar	jim: Remember, I have been using Linux since basically, forever.  1.0.x kernels and stuff
2021-07-02 07:14:08	Dagmar	So, and ipfw before that.
2021-07-02 07:14:29	Dagmar	"Tell me the command to type" is handholding and I don't do handholding.  It does not actually help anyone
2021-07-02 07:14:30	jim	me, a little before that
2021-07-02 07:14:49	jim	I remember when 1.0 came out
2021-07-02 07:14:59	jim	maybe you do too?
2021-07-02 07:15:10	PaulFertser	And now we should all learn nftables instead. Before switching to something BPF-based :)
2021-07-02 07:15:13	Dagmar	Yes.  I saw the message posted to Usenet about it
2021-07-02 07:15:30	Dagmar	PaulFertser: As I understand it that isn't supposed to be necessary
2021-07-02 07:15:51	PaulFertser	Dagmar: but nft seems to be the way forward
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2021-07-02 07:16:11	Dagmar	iptables is supposed to continue to be the interface and it'll generate nftables rules as necessary
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2021-07-02 07:16:54	PaulFertser	Yes, but it's kinda limited compared to nftables, and can't natively do dual-stack so why stick with it?
2021-07-02 07:17:10	Dagmar	Because not everything needs to be an exercise in orbital mechanics
2021-07-02 07:17:55	moo	is there something to replace tc yet? :D
2021-07-02 07:17:57	jim	many dists don't have real iptables any more, instead, as Dagmar says, writing iptables rules will instead generate nftables fules
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2021-07-02 07:18:18	HumbleGuy	 what is the key for Fn+AudioLowerVolume in keysymdeh.h? i know the fn key itself doesnt get detected, only when combined with another key. I want to set keybindings for it
2021-07-02 07:18:25	HumbleGuy	 what is its code name?
2021-07-02 07:18:30	Dagmar	moo: I hear the flail and the cat o' nine tails are making comebacks
2021-07-02 07:18:32	koollman	moo: not as far as I know. Still a painful point
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2021-07-02 07:19:06	moo	i wish there was something less painful than tc, or being flailed alive by cats
2021-07-02 07:19:10	moo	:P
2021-07-02 07:19:19	Dagmar	You and me both
2021-07-02 07:19:32	moo	tc needs rewrite more than iptables [change my mind]
2021-07-02 07:19:46	Dagmar	tc could use a "reimagining"
2021-07-02 07:20:00	koollman	tc could use a higher-level user interface, at least
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2021-07-02 07:20:58	Dagmar	Part of the reason I quit using AT&T was because I had to deploy tc rules to prevent triggering their *really* crappy u-verse QoS
2021-07-02 07:21:08	Dagmar	I was a little pissed about that
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2021-07-02 07:21:38	HumbleGuy	help?
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2021-07-02 07:23:20	Fleck	can I prioritize raid sync somehow? it's running at around speed=100432K/sec, system is idle... would like to get over it faster :D
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2021-07-02 07:23:47	moo	isn't it io bound?
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2021-07-02 07:24:10	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: By now you should have figured out that it's not in there
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2021-07-02 07:25:07	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: Or actually noticed it right away when you looked in the file.
2021-07-02 07:25:19	HumbleGuy	this is the code keysym 0x1008ff13
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2021-07-02 07:26:02	moo	state 0x0, keycode 123 (keysym 0x1008ff13, XF86AudioRaiseVolume), same_screen YES,
2021-07-02 07:26:04	Dagmar	Fleck: If the system is idle it's already getting all the IO it can
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2021-07-02 07:26:31	Fleck	Dagmar: hmm, it's pretty slow then :/
2021-07-02 07:26:38	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: Look at the file.  It's literally right there on the second page
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2021-07-02 07:27:50	HumbleGuy	Dagmar, you mean in /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h ?
2021-07-02 07:28:18	Dagmar	Fleck: You can run `iostat 2`, notice that the device is pretty much saturated for IO, and then take some time to consider buying faster drives in the future
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2021-07-02 07:28:39	n00b101	Why most Linux distributions comes with most wifi drivers for eg: RTL series not built-in? Is that a concern of package size? Is it built into kernel?
2021-07-02 07:28:40	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: You could try looking in the motd but I doubt it'll be there
2021-07-02 07:28:58	Fleck	Dagmar: https://p.rullz.lv/eqapevirac.pl
2021-07-02 07:29:03	moo	more likely license and not wanting to include binary blobs
2021-07-02 07:29:19	frojnd	Ok how do I check if connection is made for specific port?
2021-07-02 07:29:28	frojnd	After assigning iptables rule?
2021-07-02 07:29:49	HumbleGuy	Dagmar, so did you actually find the key codename? might as well directly say it
2021-07-02 07:29:54	Dagmar	Fleck: From that I would say that at present it is *not* rebuilding
2021-07-02 07:30:03	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: No.
2021-07-02 07:30:05	Fleck	Dagmar: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/149407/intel-ssd-660p-series-1-0tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0-x4-3d2-qlc/specifications.html
2021-07-02 07:30:32	Fleck	Dagmar: https://p.rullz.lv/wedisusubo.coffeescript
2021-07-02 07:30:32	frojnd	iptables -A INPUT -i eth0.3999 -p udp --dport 3702 -s 239.255.255.250 -j DROP
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2021-07-02 07:30:47	frojnd	would netstat -lu show if udp port 3702 is made?
2021-07-02 07:30:57	Dagmar	UDP is conenctionless
2021-07-02 07:31:05	frojnd	Oh right
2021-07-02 07:31:10	frojnd	So only with wireshark somehow
2021-07-02 07:31:15	Dagmar	Or tcpdump, yeah
2021-07-02 07:31:21	frojnd	tcpdump I have on that box
2021-07-02 07:31:29	frojnd	Ok let me try with that
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2021-07-02 07:31:52	Dagmar	Not much point in attempting to block multicast traffic tho unless ALL the traffic has to go through your router
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2021-07-02 07:35:48	Dagmar	...and i'm just going to say this... Unless you ahve somehow decided to write your own windows discovery daemon for lord only knows what reason, you don't have to bother unless you are acting as a router for mulitple windows machines
2021-07-02 07:36:54	Dagmar	netstat and ss will both show you if anything is _listening_ for packets for that port
2021-07-02 07:36:55	varaindemian	I am trying to open two chromium windows from the terminal `chromium-browser` how can I trigger a soft close for those windows?
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2021-07-02 07:40:57	frojnd	But will I see anything in ss or netststat if packets goes out only a every few seconds?
2021-07-02 07:41:01	frojnd	udp packets...
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2021-07-02 07:41:20	Dagmar	If nothign is listening for 3702/udp you literally do not have to care about it
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2021-07-02 07:41:37	Dagmar	The kernel will just drop the packets on the floor.
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2021-07-02 07:42:06	varaindemian	anyone knows?
2021-07-02 07:42:23	Dagmar	More importantly, if this is a concern, you should already have a "mostly-closed" firewall ruleset, meaning the packets will already be getting dropped for other reasons.
2021-07-02 07:42:25	phogg	varaindemian: what is a "soft close"?
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2021-07-02 07:42:36	varaindemian	phogg like clicking the close button
2021-07-02 07:42:47	varaindemian	tried to kill the pid
2021-07-02 07:42:52	varaindemian	but it kills all the windows
2021-07-02 07:42:54	Dagmar	varaindemian: As far as I know ther'es no remote-close command, so you'll have to store the childpid and just send it an unsubtle signal to bugger off
2021-07-02 07:43:01	phogg	varaindemian: you can use wmctrl or xdotool to ask a window to close, just as it would when clicked.
2021-07-02 07:43:25	phogg	varaindemian: but if there is a one to one window-to-process correspondence then you can usually just signal the process with TERM
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2021-07-02 07:43:49	phogg	varaindemian: for chromium's multi-process model I am not sure how that will work
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2021-07-02 07:44:44	varaindemian	phogg xdotool kills all the windows
2021-07-02 07:44:47	varaindemian	I tried already
2021-07-02 07:44:58	phogg	varaindemian: only if that's what you ask it to do
2021-07-02 07:45:20	varaindemian	phogg     chromium-browser --name="$2" --new-window "$1" & sleep 3
2021-07-02 07:45:33	varaindemian	phogg `xdotool search --name "$2" windowkill`
2021-07-02 07:45:46	Cork	varaindemian: tried wmctrl ?
2021-07-02 07:45:51	phogg	varaindemian: in any case I suggest wmctrl as the simpler option for this case
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2021-07-02 07:46:11	frojnd	Hm ok but tcpdump -i eth0 udp port 3702 -XAvvv gives me data
2021-07-02 07:46:14	phogg	varaindemian: you asked it to kill all windows with a given name. If multiple windows match they all get killed
2021-07-02 07:46:27	phogg	varaindemian: you have to have a way of identifying the one you want
2021-07-02 07:46:30	varaindemian	phogg they don't match
2021-07-02 07:46:54	varaindemian	`$2` stores different names
2021-07-02 07:46:58	frojnd	EVen though I've blocked it like this: iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p udp --dport 3702 -d 239.255.255.250 -j DROP
2021-07-02 07:47:02	varaindemian	and one name at a time
2021-07-02 07:47:15	phogg	varaindemian: then they won't all close. If you omit the windowkill how many  windows are returned from the search?
2021-07-02 07:47:23	Dagmar	frojnd: IS this machine a gateway for other hosts?
2021-07-02 07:47:57	frojnd	Yes
2021-07-02 07:48:02	varaindemian	phogg one..
2021-07-02 07:48:04	Dagmar	Are any of them Windows hosts?
2021-07-02 07:48:18	varaindemian	phogg let me try it locally
2021-07-02 07:48:20	frojnd	No, this machine sends this discovery to the ipcams
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2021-07-02 07:48:29	phogg	varaindemian: then only that one window should be closed
2021-07-02 07:48:30	varaindemian	phogg but I am sure they all get killed
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2021-07-02 07:49:11	Dagmar	frojnd: This is the host making the query?  THen the INPUT table is not the proper chain
2021-07-02 07:49:22	Dagmar	Seeing as how it's actually, you know, OUTPUT
2021-07-02 07:49:28	frojnd	Aah
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2021-07-02 07:50:08	phogg	varaindemian: it does depend on how windowkill is implemented (whether it tries to tell the window to close via EWMH or whether it kills the client)
2021-07-02 07:50:19	frojnd	Dagmar: but then I have to ommit -i option
2021-07-02 07:50:22	phogg	varaindemian: this is one reason why I suggest wmctrl; it should absolutely use the close hint
2021-07-02 07:50:42	Dagmar	frojndL: That should be pretty obvious
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2021-07-02 07:51:07	varaindemian	phogg okay then how can I give windows name in wmctrl
2021-07-02 07:51:08	Dagmar	me personally, I would just kill the program doing service discovery and be done with it
2021-07-02 07:51:10	varaindemian	and later kill them
2021-07-02 07:51:38	phogg	varaindemian: have you read the man page? It does explain.
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2021-07-02 07:52:10	phogg	varaindemian: briefly, wmctrl -c "the name of the window"
2021-07-02 07:52:27	phogg	varaindemian: use -F to force an exact match
2021-07-02 07:52:29	frojnd	But I wan't it to send discovery just _not_ for the specific interface which is eth0
2021-07-02 07:52:33	frojnd	I want
2021-07-02 07:52:45	phogg	varaindemian: I should clarify: -F and -c for an exact mach
2021-07-02 07:53:16	phogg	varaindemian: wmctrl can also operate on window IDs, which if you have them is more accurate,
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2021-07-02 07:54:09	varaindemian	phogg -T name Set  the  both the name (long title) and icon name (short title) of the window specified by a -r action to name.
2021-07-02 07:54:23	varaindemian	what's -r?
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2021-07-02 07:55:00	Dagmar	frojnd: Let me guess, it's finding thousands of cameras on the interner?
2021-07-02 07:55:07	phogg	varaindemian: you probably don't want to set the icon for a window
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2021-07-02 07:55:19	frojnd	Dagmar: smth like that yes
2021-07-02 07:55:51	phogg	varaindemian: if you keep reading you will find -r described as well. It just specifies the window that the action will be applied to.
2021-07-02 07:55:51	varaindemian	phogg then -N should be enouch
2021-07-02 07:56:07	phogg	varaindemian: why would you want to set the window name?
2021-07-02 07:56:16	varaindemian	to later use it to kill it
2021-07-02 07:56:26	Dagmar	frojnd: Maybe you should just drop the multicast route from that interface, thenb
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2021-07-02 07:56:37	phogg	varaindemian: if you can select a window well enough to set its name then you can already identify it well enough to close it
2021-07-02 07:56:44	frojnd	Dagmar: with iptables?
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2021-07-02 07:57:14	Dagmar	No, by changing the routing table and removing the part that's adding the multicast route to that interface
2021-07-02 07:57:19	varaindemian	phogg trie with     #chromium-browser --new-window "$1" & sleep 5 & wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -N "$2"
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2021-07-02 08:04:58	phogg	varaindemian: this will use wmctrl to close each window (by ID) identified by your existing xdotool window search logic: while IFS= read -r win; do wmctrl -i -c "$win"; done < <(xdotool search --name "$2")
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2021-07-02 08:06:51	varaindemian	phogg I think I do not get it :(
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2021-07-02 08:07:19	phogg	varaindemian: what don't you get?
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2021-07-02 08:07:48	varaindemian	phogg what is IFS? and how can I apply this command?
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2021-07-02 08:08:06	phogg	varaindemian: this is a shell script oneliner which will work in bash
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2021-07-02 08:08:34	varaindemian	phogg almost killed all my windows
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2021-07-02 08:09:19	phogg	varaindemian: IFS is the input field separator. It defines which characters are treated as "space between fields" by read.
2021-07-02 08:09:24	varaindemian	phogg wait, I think I missed something in naming the windows
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2021-07-02 08:15:00	varaindemian	phogg chromium-browser --name="my_precious123" --new-window http://apple.com & sleep 3
2021-07-02 08:15:06	varaindemian	chromium-browser --name="my_precious123" --new-window http://apple.com & sleep 3
2021-07-02 08:15:26	varaindemian	while IFS= read -r win; do wmctrl -i -c "$win"; done < <(xdotool search --name "my_precious123") does nothing
2021-07-02 08:16:54	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: I'm sure this was mentioned before but why do you think --name does anything for chromium? I don't see it among the list of known switches.
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2021-07-02 08:19:10	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches/
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2021-07-02 08:21:52	varaindemian	curdlesnoot indeed there is no --name :(
2021-07-02 08:21:59	curdlesnoot	seems that you'd have to match on the web page's <title>, which is unfortunate.
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2021-07-02 08:24:20	esselfe	yeah the browser might change the title name...
2021-07-02 08:24:37	esselfe	you'd want a pid
2021-07-02 08:25:14	phogg	varaindemian: if you just want to figure out what window you just opened there are other ways
2021-07-02 08:25:24	curdlesnoot	chromium-browser ... & pid=$!
2021-07-02 08:25:31	m1dnight	Hi all. I'm trying to figure out how to share data between my servers and desktops. Now I have my /home partition mounted from a central server where the data is on a mirrored raid.
2021-07-02 08:25:42	m1dnight	But cache files etc make it perform poorly.
2021-07-02 08:25:43	esselfe	yeah that's what I was about to say, use $!
2021-07-02 08:25:48	varaindemian	phogg how?
2021-07-02 08:25:57	m1dnight	I'm wondering how other people do this? Mount a folder on /mnt/mydata or something, or?
2021-07-02 08:25:57	phogg	varaindemian: this works if your WM puts new windows in focus: chromium-browser --new-window; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow)
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2021-07-02 08:26:37	curdlesnoot	I don't think ; is going to be helpful
2021-07-02 08:26:40	phogg	esselfe, curdlesnoot: having the pid of a chrome/chromium process may not be enough given its multi-process model.
2021-07-02 08:26:41	esselfe	m1dnight: sshfs?
2021-07-02 08:26:48	varaindemian	phogg it does,
2021-07-02 08:26:51	curdlesnoot	phogg: yeah, I was just wondering about that
2021-07-02 08:26:58	esselfe	even if it's the parent/main process?
2021-07-02 08:27:08	curdlesnoot	processes up the wazoo, and it may be re-entrant
2021-07-02 08:27:11	rascul	does the main process have a window?
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2021-07-02 08:27:57	phogg	I believe, without having verified, that chromium-browser --new-window will run a new process, connect to the main process and request a new window, then exit.
2021-07-02 08:27:59	curdlesnoot	phogg: maybe that would be reliable if chromium is already running?
2021-07-02 08:28:19	rascul	phogg that appears to be similar to what firefox does
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2021-07-02 08:28:54	curdlesnoot	phogg: indeed, it's only the case where chromium was already running. otherwise, it will not exit.
2021-07-02 08:28:58	phogg	rascul: that's the usual way to do it (and how I would write it)
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2021-07-02 08:29:06	curdlesnoot	so it's going to take more.
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2021-07-02 08:29:30	phogg	curdlesnoot: if it was not already running I imagine that he would not need --new-window. Also. he would probably prefer a solution that works in either case.
2021-07-02 08:29:54	curdlesnoot	phogg: well, ok. I'm just saying that it's not a universal solution.
2021-07-02 08:30:14	varaindemian	phogg yes I'd prefer a solution that covers both cases
2021-07-02 08:30:44	varaindemian	`chromium-browser --new-window; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow)`
2021-07-02 08:30:55	varaindemian	`echo $win` gives a number
2021-07-02 08:31:15	varaindemian	`;` = `&&`?
2021-07-02 08:31:29	rascul	you might want & to cover the case where it's the first/only window
2021-07-02 08:31:33	curdlesnoot	no. && is contingent upon the exit status value. ; isn't.
2021-07-02 08:31:35	phogg	varaindemian: the number is the window ID of the window that was active at the time
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2021-07-02 08:31:43	phogg	varaindemian: that should be the ID of the newly-opened windowe
2021-07-02 08:31:51	phogg	varaindemian: now try: wmctrl -i -c "$win"
2021-07-02 08:32:33	phogg	the new window, and only that one window, should close
2021-07-02 08:32:55	varaindemian	Cannot convert argument to number.
2021-07-02 08:33:21	curdlesnoot	declare -p win
2021-07-02 08:34:11	phogg	varaindemian: you said that 'echo $win' printed a number. Did that stop being true?
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2021-07-02 08:35:47	varaindemian	phogg yes wtf
2021-07-02 08:36:05	varaindemian	phogg it was empty
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2021-07-02 08:36:44	varaindemian	phogg no window opened -> no name
2021-07-02 08:36:51	phogg	varaindemian: did you close the shell that you were in when you ran the command originally?
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2021-07-02 08:37:06	varaindemian	no
2021-07-02 08:37:16	varaindemian	I issued it in another shell
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2021-07-02 08:37:41	phogg	then of course the variable is gone
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2021-07-02 08:37:54	peetaur	just because it prints a number doesn't mean it's a number  https://bpa.st/4T6Q
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2021-07-02 08:38:04	varaindemian	phogg can I export it globally?
2021-07-02 08:38:12	curdlesnoot	no. there's no such thing as a global environment.
2021-07-02 08:38:29	phogg	varaindemian: you can make it available to sub-processes by exporting it. You cannot push it "up" to parents.
2021-07-02 08:38:43	curdlesnoot	you could write it out somewhere and read/source it, for example.
2021-07-02 08:38:52	phogg	varaindemian: if you want to do that you must write the value to a file, or print it out and have the parent call your script and capture the output
2021-07-02 08:38:57	varaindemian	ah okay
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2021-07-02 08:39:17	curdlesnoot	to parents and siblings for that matter.
2021-07-02 08:39:19	varaindemian	perfect
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2021-07-02 08:42:11	phogg	it would probably be best to check that win is not empty before using it, since wmtrl -c with no value will target the current window.
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2021-07-02 08:44:44	varaindemian	phogg the problem is the the console remains in that process and does not let me issue another command after launchin chromium-browser
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2021-07-02 08:45:06	phogg	varaindemian: that will happen of chromium was not open. Use & instead of ;
2021-07-02 08:45:20	phogg	and that's the point at which you may need to sleep a moment to be sure the right window is active.
2021-07-02 08:45:53	phogg	something like this: chromium-browser --new-window & sleep 1; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow)
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2021-07-02 08:46:44	phogg	the more reliable mechanic would be to list windows before, ask for a new one, then poll for windows until you see a difference.
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2021-07-02 08:47:49	Helmholtz1	How to watch `/sys/class/net/wlp3s0/statistics/operstate`?
2021-07-02 08:48:11	ananke	Helmholtz1: watch cat /whatever
2021-07-02 08:48:15	Helmholtz1	I want to exec a command when it changes
2021-07-02 08:48:29	Helmholtz1	async
2021-07-02 08:48:45	ananke	what does async have to do with it?
2021-07-02 08:48:46	Helmholtz1	inotify doesn't work on  it
2021-07-02 08:48:52	varaindemian	phogg `chromium-browser --new-window & sleep 1; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow)` this shows the number right away but I try to use `wmctrl -i -c number` it doesn't work. it works only with `wmctrl -i -c
2021-07-02 08:49:10	varaindemian	itworks with `wmctrl -i -c "$win"`
2021-07-02 08:49:11	PaulFertser	Helmholtz1: probably run netplugd or other similar daemon
2021-07-02 08:49:21	Helmholtz1	ananke, I mean I want to attach a listener to it
2021-07-02 08:49:50	Helmholtz1	PaulFertser, Isn't there a more generic tool (so the solution would apply on other /sys/ paths?
2021-07-02 08:50:05	Helmholtz1	is udevmonitor related?
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2021-07-02 08:51:56	phogg	varaindemian: I don't know what you're saying. It should only work if you use -c "$win"
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2021-07-02 08:52:03	PaulFertser	Helmholtz1: I think there's a generic way to monitor "uevent"s but not sure if it's applicable here.
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2021-07-02 08:52:05	phogg	varaindemian: it sounds like that is what's happening, so that is as I expect
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2021-07-02 08:55:09	varaindemian	phogg echo $win gives me a number
2021-07-02 08:55:32	phogg	of course it does
2021-07-02 08:55:34	varaindemian	but if I use it with wmctrl -i -c number it doesn work
2021-07-02 08:55:52	varaindemian	otherwise wmctr -i -c "$win" works
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2021-07-02 08:58:51	alsman3	can anyone help disable pulseaudio on ubuntu?
2021-07-02 08:59:07	phogg	varaindemian: I can't explain that
2021-07-02 09:00:01	sysRPL	after installing and supporting sales of many computers with windows, i am say without any doubt the linux user experience is vastly superior to windows
2021-07-02 09:00:29	peetaur	alsman3: are you replacing it with pipewire?
2021-07-02 09:00:43	peetaur	or just breaking it?
2021-07-02 09:00:57	alsman3	no it just blocks alsa from being used in daw
2021-07-02 09:01:04	sysRPL	linux install is both faster and less troublesome. i don't have to turn off telemetry with linux. i don't have to search for drivers with linux. i don't have to turn off annoying features or services with linux.
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2021-07-02 09:01:34	varaindemian	phogg looks like `chromium-browser --new-window & sleep 1; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow) & echo $win` issues the right number :D
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2021-07-02 09:02:22	phogg	varaindemian: you don't need the second &, it can be a ;
2021-07-02 09:02:24	alsman3	daw reports Error opening input device,
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2021-07-02 09:04:13	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: it's important to understand what the control operators do. & makes the assignment of win a background job - a sub-process, in fact. not only that, it's carried out asynchronously. echo $win can only possibly print out the value of win in the present shell (presumably, it doesn't have one).
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2021-07-02 09:04:40	Fleck	https://pasteboard.co/K9jf54m.png << ideas, why two identical SSDs, but such difference in performance? one is 10%, other 100%...
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2021-07-02 09:05:26	moo	are they formatted the same? same sector size?
2021-07-02 09:05:46	moo	maybe one has pcie lane shared with other devices?
2021-07-02 09:05:57	moo	like dunno usb or network
2021-07-02 09:06:00	phogg	Fleck: are they wired to the motherboard the same way?
2021-07-02 09:06:19	Fleck	yes onboard nvme slots
2021-07-02 09:06:22	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: i'll play devil's advocate here but have you tried using wayland with an nvidia gpu ?
2021-07-02 09:06:30	phogg	different bus speeds and, as moo says, possible contention with other devices can play a part
2021-07-02 09:06:33	moo	swap them on the montherboard and see if it reverses speeds
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2021-07-02 09:06:36	peetaur	Fleck: can't see the image, but trim/discard and test again
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2021-07-02 09:07:11	Fleck	peetaur: what do you mean?
2021-07-02 09:07:13	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: ever had a laptop with "sleep" issues ?
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2021-07-02 09:08:21	peetaur	Fleck: if an ssd was written to and filled up and no trimm/discard then it has to remap to wear level synchronously instead of just filling the empty space and wear leveling later
2021-07-02 09:08:29	peetaur	so it can slow it down badly
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2021-07-02 09:08:49	curdlesnoot	Fleck: for instance, `fstrim -av` then wait a bit. or blkdiscard, but _only_ if the contents of the device are completely disposable; it's as destructive as, say, shred is.
2021-07-02 09:08:50	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: god forbid you have some monitors laying around and try to mix low and hi dpi screens
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2021-07-02 09:09:31	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: is remote desktop working in wayland yet ?
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2021-07-02 09:10:43	moo	reminds me to trim my disk XD
2021-07-02 09:10:50	Fleck	ok thanks guys, have some ideas what to test now, will first swap them out and see if that changes something...
2021-07-02 09:11:00	moo	note their uuids or smh
2021-07-02 09:11:06	mlu	moo: with sharp scissors
2021-07-02 09:11:10	moo	so yuo know which was fast and which slow
2021-07-02 09:11:17	curdlesnoot	Fleck: as an aside from all of the other useful things mentioned, many disks will allow for you to check the wear level by way of smartctl.
2021-07-02 09:11:29	Fleck	and yes, they are identical divided/formated
2021-07-02 09:11:30	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: do high refresh rate monitors finally play nice with firefox or chrome, or are they still stuck at 60hz max ?
2021-07-02 09:11:49	Fleck	curdlesnoot: brand new SSDs
2021-07-02 09:11:59	curdlesnoot	Fleck: ok
2021-07-02 09:12:08	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: can you playback HDR content ?
2021-07-02 09:12:23	varaindemian	phogg gonna restart my pc and then try again just to make sure the commands I use (and work now!) are not influenced by something weird
2021-07-02 09:12:25	varaindemian	brb
2021-07-02 09:12:31	moo	Fleck: you can also test them individually in each slot
2021-07-02 09:12:34	varaindemian	sorry brb^
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2021-07-02 09:12:55	Fleck	moo: yeah, good point! :) have some work to do now...
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2021-07-02 09:13:38	Erus_Iluvatar	having said all that, i'm still running on linux 95% of the time because once things a set up the way i want them, they mostly stay working
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2021-07-02 09:14:43	Erus_Iluvatar	but let's not kidd ourserlves, there is still work to do before we can say that all new computers would be better with linux preinstalled instead of windows
2021-07-02 09:15:06	Erus_Iluvatar	and before it happens, google will probably have pulled the rug under us with the chromebooks
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2021-07-02 09:15:35	phogg	chromebooks are still (so far) Linux
2021-07-02 09:15:50	peetaur	if chromebooks were the dumbed down thing to replace windows, I don't see a problem with that...
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2021-07-02 09:16:00	sysRPL	Erus_Iluvatar: all i have is a regular 1080p monitor
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2021-07-02 09:16:08	sysRPL	so i don't know
2021-07-02 09:16:08	phogg	peetaur: I am super OK with that
2021-07-02 09:16:23	phogg	chromebooks for normal people, regular Linux desktops for everyone else? Sounds fine.
2021-07-02 09:16:30	peetaur	the problem is when invasive projects like systemd spread from the dumbed down systems with weird priorities (stability? software development best practices? who needs that....) move to the expert linux systems
2021-07-02 09:16:49	Erus_Iluvatar	phogg: let's hope they don't switch the internals to Fushia then
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2021-07-02 09:17:23	phogg	Erus_Iluvatar: even if they do I'll take that OS over Windows
2021-07-02 09:17:46	Erus_Iluvatar	yeah, lesser of the two evils
2021-07-02 09:18:11	phogg	the less time that is spent dumping effort into a non-Unix dead-end OS architecture, the better (to say nothing of my definitely-real bias against Microsoft products)
2021-07-02 09:18:14	apn_	Erus_Iluvatar: only if you don't value privacy
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2021-07-02 09:18:42	peetaur	nothing wrong with a bias against https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
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2021-07-02 09:19:20	phogg	those who lived through MS of the 80s and 90s are, I think, less inclined to be accepting of it today (no matter how reformed MS is or how improved Windows is)
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2021-07-02 09:19:30	Erus_Iluvatar	apn_: I try not to be delusional by thinking I have any left, but it's true that I don't actively undermine my privacy when i can
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2021-07-02 09:19:36	phogg	that's bias, and it may even be unfair, but it's not going anywhere
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2021-07-02 09:20:25	Erus_Iluvatar	yup : putting lipstick on a pig and all that
2021-07-02 09:21:06	hodapp	yeah, still gonna close the door when I shit
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2021-07-02 09:22:00	Erus_Iluvatar	sysRPL: let's hope those issues are fixed when they become mainstream
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2021-07-02 09:23:26	rascul	Erus_Iluvatar do you have an issue with pigs wearing lipstick?
2021-07-02 09:24:01	rascul	https://www.bakerstreetmarketing.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/pig3-1288x724.jpg
2021-07-02 09:24:05	Erus_Iluvatar	as long as they don't pretend they've changed :P
2021-07-02 09:24:06	phogg	(0) testing cosmetics on animals is inhumane, (1) the pig doesn't become more attractive
2021-07-02 09:24:16	rascul	some cosmetics are made for animals though
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2021-07-02 09:24:33	rascul	https://www.chewy.com/b/nail-polish-caps-2402
2021-07-02 09:24:35	hodapp	oh gawd, here comes rascul's sales pitch for Cat Mascara
2021-07-02 09:24:50	phogg	Cats don't need the help. Try dogs?
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2021-07-02 09:25:20	rascul	i'm not aware of any cat mascara
2021-07-02 09:25:27	rascul	cats aren't worth the effort anyway
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2021-07-02 09:28:19	schillingklaus	no way will I use a chromebook or a regular desktop
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2021-07-02 09:29:16	schillingklaus	theyt are only suited for phoggs
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2021-07-02 09:30:01	BluesKaj	Hi all
2021-07-02 09:30:42	falk689	I never totally get the arguments against systemd by the way, it never failed me and made my archlinux life easier, what's wrong with it? I'm not trying to stir a fight, I'm just honestly asking.
2021-07-02 09:31:14	akik	falk689: it's all on the internet. go read it
2021-07-02 09:31:22	schillingklaus	systemd makes linux similar to windows and macos
2021-07-02 09:31:26	caterfxo	me neither, frankly.
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2021-07-02 09:32:08	djph	falk689: ultimately, it kind of becomes one of those "well, what's wrong with Windows|Linux|Mac" type things that, while there are many technical shortcomings of said OS, most of it ultimately comes down to "you"
2021-07-02 09:32:26	caterfxo	but I started when systemd was new, so, little frame of reference here
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2021-07-02 09:33:30	falk689	Ok so I've kind of understood the arguments I've read online, basically user preferences plus a bit of (justified) hate for pulseaudio
2021-07-02 09:33:41	phogg	falk689: there's a lot more to it than that
2021-07-02 09:33:52	phogg	distrust of the author plays a small part, but only a small part
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2021-07-02 09:34:10	djph	falk689: that's barely scratching the surface.  :)
2021-07-02 09:34:15	sysRPL	jsut this feature makes my linux "start" menu better than windows -> https://cache.getlazarus.org/images/desktop/cinnamon-menu-options.png
2021-07-02 09:34:18	akik	pulseaudio has almos nothing to do with it, except the same guy driving it
2021-07-02 09:34:22	phogg	the disingenuous arguments used to attempt to sell systemd were quite annoying, too, but if that was all it wouldn't be a problem
2021-07-02 09:34:30	peetaur	there are many things wrong with systemd....for example look at my entire /var  du -shx /var -> 837M    /var   vs a systemd machine journal dir only    du -shx /var/log/journal/  ->   3.6G    /var/log/journal/      WHY?
2021-07-02 09:34:32	caterfxo	change of any kind usually rankles people's feathers
2021-07-02 09:34:32	sysRPL	ms witholds the ability to change things around in many different places for windows users
2021-07-02 09:34:44	djph	peetaur: because binary logs.
2021-07-02 09:34:51	djph	peetaur: WHY BINARY LOGS?!
2021-07-02 09:35:04	phogg	akik: pulseaudio has a lot wrong with it. The way you configure it is convoluted, the whole thing is a giant example of NIH syndrome since 99% of what it was trying to do was already being done by jackd at the time.
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2021-07-02 09:35:11	alsman3	so it's not possible to disable pulse on systemd?
2021-07-02 09:35:19	schillingklaus	I detest start menus, I want a start cli
2021-07-02 09:35:29	curdlesnoot	akik: I think it did at one point because some distributions were originally 'pushing' it upon their userbase before it was quite ready (fedora, I think?). granted, that's history at this point.
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2021-07-02 09:35:30	drip	you can remove pulse from any system easily in my experience
2021-07-02 09:35:34	falk689	I use pipewire to replace pulseaudio and so far so good
2021-07-02 09:35:35	drip	its my go-to for getting sound to work
2021-07-02 09:35:36	phogg	akik: fortunately the major mistakes (not breaking out policy, not playing nice with jack) are resolved by pipewire, so this is now a non-issue
2021-07-02 09:35:51	peetaur	because some clueless fools decided to reinvent a wheel but didn't like circles so he made it a fractal instead cuz that's cool
2021-07-02 09:35:58	phogg	the same guy making an initd did not bode well, becuase mistakes were made on pulseaudio
2021-07-02 09:35:59	alsman3	drip if i uninstall pulse a lot of packs are automatically uninstalled too
2021-07-02 09:36:06	<--	Kevlar_Noir (~alex@2a01:e0a:5d7:e1e0::b018:6779) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-02 09:36:33	phogg	drip: I run without pulse, have for years. For some things you need apulse to pretend you have pulse, but most everything works fine without it.
2021-07-02 09:36:45	curdlesnoot	akik: fedora is known to be a staging ground for new technologies, so its users probably shouldn't have been surprised.
2021-07-02 09:36:46	akik	phogg: i meant pulseaudio has nothing to do with the systemd debacle
2021-07-02 09:36:50	phogg	I used to run jackd as my "desktop audio" setup, and that was fine too.
2021-07-02 09:37:00	Fleck	moo: swapped SSDs, the same phisical SSD is slow again...
2021-07-02 09:37:03	peetaur	schillingklaus: try alt+f2 or just type in the kmenu to run a thing..no need for clicks
2021-07-02 09:37:10	phogg	akik: it was a sign of things to come in terms of the way the project would be managed
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2021-07-02 09:37:21	rapha	hi all!
2021-07-02 09:37:25	peetaur	only time I ever click my kmenu is to shut down and log out
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2021-07-02 09:37:29	alsman3	hi
2021-07-02 09:37:57	caterfxo	phogg: the way the project would be managed?
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2021-07-02 09:38:15	varaindemian	it works just fine: `#1 chromium-browser --new-window & sleep 1; win=$(xdotool getactivewindow); echo $win #2 wmctrl -i -c my_number_in_$win`
2021-07-02 09:38:28	curdlesnoot	phogg: I think the combination of Lennart-contempt and pulseaudio initially being in a sort of beta state had a lot to do with it, with the latter doing much to inform the former. in practice, not that many are able to come to an informed opinion as you might be able to (how many people even use jackd, for example).
2021-07-02 09:38:38	varaindemian	phogg ^
2021-07-02 09:38:49	phogg	caterfxo: things like ignoring prior work in the area, and disregarding advice from experienced people, then declaring anyone not using it to be "legacy" and encouraging support of nothing else
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2021-07-02 09:39:24	phogg	varaindemian: I'm glad you got it working
2021-07-02 09:39:49	varaindemian	phogg thank you!
2021-07-02 09:39:59	curdlesnoot	later, systemd capitalised - as it were - on the well entrenched Lennart-contempt, for better or worse. that can also inform one's recollection of history.
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2021-07-02 09:40:16	curdlesnoot	(trying to remain neutral there)
2021-07-02 09:40:58	phogg	For me, the whole way systemd is put together from front to back is wrong. Socket activation isn't new (inetd has been doing it for decades) and we didn't need to rebuild the world in order to adopt it. Complaining about sysvinit by saying shell scripts are bad is disingenuous because you can write init "scripts" in any language.
2021-07-02 09:41:36	phogg	The right way looks much more like s6 with a minimal init. I will note that s6 was not even considered as a viable starting point because, again like with pulse and jack, NIH applies.
2021-07-02 09:41:51	rapha	is it certain that if i zip a bunch of files up with `zip blah.zip $(ls -1 | sort | xargs)` they will end up in the zip file in the same order as ls outputs them?
2021-07-02 09:41:53	caterfxo	there's a lot of broken shell scripts out there
2021-07-02 09:42:17	phogg	the goal wasn't "do initd better", the goal was "build a new base 'Linux OS' plumbing layer that works more like Mac OS" or in some ways like Windows
2021-07-02 09:42:18	curdlesnoot	phogg: I think the way launchd does socket activation was an improvement, with Lennart poaching liberally but yes, I get where you're coming from. it's never going to appeal to someone who just wanted a better supervisory suite to become popular, without all the bells and whistles.
2021-07-02 09:42:30	phogg	the goal was clear from the approach, but it was not presented as the goal
2021-07-02 09:43:06	Fleck	curdlesnoot: fstrim -av puts again that ssd to 100% busy while other stays at 30%
2021-07-02 09:43:22	phogg	caterfxo: "shell scripts are hard to write", "shell scripts are slow", and "shell scripts are buggy" are not in the set of reasons not to use sysvinit. No one forces anyone to use shell scripts as init programs.
2021-07-02 09:43:32	rapha	phogg: good thing there's ppl who do their own thing and don't give a rat's ass about systemd.
2021-07-02 09:43:32	curdlesnoot	Fleck: give it some time. if you've never trimmed, it could take a while for the firmware to deal with the request.
2021-07-02 09:43:39	caterfxo	with logs, for security, more data can be an improvement
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2021-07-02 09:43:55	Fleck	how much time curdlesnoot? what does fstrim does?
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2021-07-02 09:44:40	phogg	curdlesnoot: the problem isn't that he wanted to make a new "grand unified base Linux system to which everything must conform", the problem is that he *said* he was making a better drop-in initd replacement, and then heavily campaigned for distros to adopt it, and *then* pulled off the mask and revealed the secret plan
2021-07-02 09:44:46	curdlesnoot	Fleck: issues the FITRIM ioctl, so as to trim blocks associated with space that the filesystem doesn't - or no longer - allocates.
2021-07-02 09:45:10	phogg	curdlesnoot: the secret plan which then made all of the defects in the design more obviously deliberate, because they're not defects if making a better initd wasn't your real goal
2021-07-02 09:45:11	curdlesnoot	Fleck: if that's still not clear, you might want to read up how SSDs work internally, garbage collection and the like.
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2021-07-02 09:45:45	phogg	so we were sold a false bill of goods: adopt this great new initd! Yoink, now that I've got you it was really meant to force you to do things the way I want.
2021-07-02 09:45:50	Fleck	curdlesnoot: OK it's finished
2021-07-02 09:45:54	curdlesnoot	Fleck: there's no way to know how long it will take. SSDs are complicted blackboxes. garbage collection will finish though, you can be assured of that.
2021-07-02 09:46:25	peetaur	Fleck: if fstrim is busy then it must have been very necessary...but also keep in mind there can be firmware bugs where fstrim is horribly inefficient; did you compare the firmware version on the 2? (eg. with smartctl -i)
2021-07-02 09:46:48	Fleck	but that did not hepl, yes, firmwares are the same peetaur
2021-07-02 09:46:53	Fleck	*help
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2021-07-02 09:47:49	akik	phogg: well said
2021-07-02 09:47:58	caterfxo	also, there's plenty of unforced errors in coding. as Linux was and still is becoming more mainstream, some structurally "enforced" idiot-proofing can be valuable
2021-07-02 09:48:25	peetaur	Fleck: what brand is it? do they provide a low level factory erase tool? it's possible the factory erase does more than trim
2021-07-02 09:48:36	Fleck	intel 660p
2021-07-02 09:48:39	Fleck	1TB
2021-07-02 09:48:48	varaindemian	phogg what do you think of this thingy? https://pastebin.com/24Ln0zS1
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2021-07-02 09:49:00	Fleck	brand new, few hrs uptime peetaur
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2021-07-02 09:49:28	curdlesnoot	phogg: I have to agree that he effectively wields perhaps a little too much power.
2021-07-02 09:49:28	phogg	varaindemian: I think you need to ask shellcheck
2021-07-02 09:49:55	peetaur	Fleck: did you swap them on the SAS or whatever controller so you know it's not the controller or slots?
2021-07-02 09:50:01	varaindemian	phogg who is that? :D
2021-07-02 09:50:19	Fleck	peetaur: yes I did, the same phisical one is still slow after swap
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2021-07-02 09:50:26	phogg	varaindemian: 'echo &window_pid' just prints a newline (pointlessly in the background) and then runs the command window_pid
2021-07-02 09:50:31	phogg	varaindemian: shellcheck.net
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2021-07-02 09:50:56	phogg	varaindemian: you can also install a corresponding command. You should check all of your shell scripts with it and fix anything it warns you about, unless you *KNOW* it's a false positive.
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2021-07-02 09:51:10	phogg	varaindemian: I could say a lot of things about your code, but shellcheck will say pretty much all of them
2021-07-02 09:51:24	varaindemian	phogg sounds pretty bad
2021-07-02 09:51:33	peetaur	Fleck: and it's linux, not bsd or something weird right? (some have weird cache things). And did you try a different scheduler? what's it on now? ssds should be on noop, but default might be cfq or bfq.
2021-07-02 09:51:42	phogg	varaindemian: shellcheck is awesome in a box. It's like cheating. Be grateful you have it.
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2021-07-02 09:52:18	phogg	varaindemian: imagine learning shell scripting *without* anything that can tell you if what you're doing is sane. You don't have to know what that's like, unlike the poor slobs in the first 40 years of Unix.
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2021-07-02 09:52:45	varaindemian	haha sounds pretty awesome
2021-07-02 09:52:46	caterfxo	I think that if it was only about 'forcing people to do things the way someone, whoever, wanted,' then systemd might have become less functional, more broken and less popularly used than it is, assuming systemd's "broken," that is
2021-07-02 09:52:48	Fleck	peetaur: it's ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS (server), default scheduler, have not changed it
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2021-07-02 09:53:00	falk689	phogg yeah I kinda have to agree too, probably my bias comes from how initscripts were implemented in arch before the switch which was really convoluted to be polite
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2021-07-02 09:54:09	peetaur	Fleck: ok well find the scheduler just in case ... for example this monstrocity of a script will list them (assuming it's a sd[a-z]):     find /sys -path "*sd[a-z]*" -name scheduler -exec grep -H . {} \;
2021-07-02 09:54:15	phogg	caterfxo: it was about ushering in a new notion of what a "standard system" looks like, reducing variance between distros. This is only bad inasmuch as it raises the level of effort required to do something different than the expected
2021-07-02 09:54:20	djph	phogg: people learn shell scripting *with* things that tell them they're doing something sanely?
2021-07-02 09:54:40	varaindemian	phogg wmctrl -i -c `cat /var/videowall/pythong/$2`  Use $(...) notation instead of legacy backticked `...`.
2021-07-02 09:54:43	Fleck	peetaur: it's nvme0n1 and nvme1n1
2021-07-02 09:54:43	peetaur	kyber...wtf is that? and when did deadline become mq-deadline...     mq-deadline kyber [bfq] none
2021-07-02 09:54:47	varaindemian	phogg is this the right thing?
2021-07-02 09:54:50	Fleck	not sdX
2021-07-02 09:54:56	phogg	djph: people learning with these tools will learn better practices faster. They, of course, must have the wit to understand that.
2021-07-02 09:55:07	peetaur	Fleck: well then adjust the script, or find and cat/grep them manually
2021-07-02 09:55:10	phogg	caterfxo: instead of being infinitely malleable it is instead only malleable within the limits of the imagination of the developers of systemd.
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2021-07-02 09:55:18	peetaur	(the purpose of the grep is just to show the filename, not actually grep anything)
2021-07-02 09:55:25	phogg	varaindemian: $() is right, `` is wrong (legacy). Listen to shellcheck,
2021-07-02 09:55:30	djph	phogg: hehe, fair enough.  There's just so much in the "bad example" category too ...
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2021-07-02 09:55:48	phogg	varaindemian: you also don't need cat in a subshell here. You can read the file directly into a variable, then use the variable. It's more efficient
2021-07-02 09:56:02	curdlesnoot	phogg: I do think that there's a certain element of complacency that is to blame also. as in, hurr durr, a primitive service model based on sysv init paired with a braindead, non-supervisory method of managing services is JustFine(tm) and NothingNeedsToBeChanged(tm). that may have contributed to the inertia against s6 and the like becoming more popular.
2021-07-02 09:56:29	phogg	varaindemian: window_id=$(</var/videowall/pythong/"$2"); wmctrl -i -c "$window_id"
2021-07-02 09:56:35	Fleck	peetaur: [none] mq-deadline
2021-07-02 09:56:49	curdlesnoot	phogg: with Lennart having the pre-requisite skills of self-aggrandisement to eventually cut through all of that.
2021-07-02 09:56:50	peetaur	oh and did noop get renamed to none?
2021-07-02 09:56:53	phogg	curdlesnoot: Very few people thought anything like that
2021-07-02 09:57:04	peetaur	so much has changed... I missed when it happened
2021-07-02 09:57:08	curdlesnoot	phogg: that's not my experience with the Linux community at large.
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2021-07-02 09:57:18	varaindemian	phogg why should we use < ?
2021-07-02 09:57:30	curdlesnoot	phogg: again, I would posit that you might be above-average in being able to develop informed opinions.
2021-07-02 09:57:34	phogg	curdlesnoot: I, for one, was *very* excited with the idea of making improvements in that area. What we had was absolutely not powerful enough to do everything, to the point where it was a point of embarrassment.
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2021-07-02 09:57:48	curdlesnoot	phogg: yes, you, for one. I have no doubt of that.
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2021-07-02 09:57:51	phogg	varaindemian: it avoids spawning two extra processes just to read the file. Instead bash reads it natively.
2021-07-02 09:57:56	peetaur	Fleck: so that's it for my guesses then...next I'd tell the vendor this SSD is unsuitable for SSD-sutiable workloads and ask for some suggestions or replacement   (sometimes replacement can be bad...might get a refurbished one)
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2021-07-02 09:58:19	peetaur	but again I have not seen your screenshot... I have no idea what numbers you are seeing or whether your test is even valid. can you send it in text?
2021-07-02 09:58:21	varaindemian	phogg I was completely unaware of this
2021-07-02 09:58:22	mlu	I think a big issue is that not enough of an effort was made to ease the transition
2021-07-02 09:58:43	mlu	you show up and the system just looks very different
2021-07-02 09:58:45	curdlesnoot	phogg: and I totally agree. it was an abolute embarassment. can you honestly say that was a widely held viewpoint, though? it really wasn't.
2021-07-02 09:58:54	peetaur	or maybe just give me a straight image link instead of this mess of hotlinked 3rd party javascript pastebin that fails all tests so won't run in my browser
2021-07-02 09:58:54	caterfxo	phogg: well, infinity. of course, that.
2021-07-02 09:58:56	phogg	curdlesnoot: The narrative that "people who don't like systemd are luddites who think sysvinit with a few shell scripts is fine" is a *false* one perpetuated by systemd advocates who were interested in showing that there was no reason not to use systemd.
2021-07-02 09:59:08	curdlesnoot	phogg: that's not what I said, though.
2021-07-02 09:59:21	hodapp	phogg: and we've seen plenty of those types here (well...
2021-07-02 09:59:26	hodapp	'here'... the prior freenode version)
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2021-07-02 09:59:36	curdlesnoot	phogg: I said that there was inertia against better solutions becoming entrenched because of the lackadasical acceptance of said embarassment, effectively.
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2021-07-02 09:59:55	phogg	curdlesnoot: the "complacency" argument is a false one, too. Lots of people were working on initd implementations and service supervision at the time, and had been for years.
2021-07-02 10:00:03	mlu	I see a few cases where systemd has its merits, but systemd changed too much without good reason
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2021-07-02 10:00:18	mlu	and that in itself is a serious violation
2021-07-02 10:00:31	peetaur	systemd had a small number of good ideas that were copied into elogind and such so there's still no reason to use systemd
2021-07-02 10:00:36	mlu	I'd much prefer the approach that OpenRC took on this
2021-07-02 10:00:39	curdlesnoot	phogg: ok. I strongly disagree but I'll leave it at that.
2021-07-02 10:00:48	phogg	curdlesnoot: trying to get a distribution to switch to something fancier than sysvinit is a hard sell. There's a lot of inertia there, so such switches were not common. That's not because people were standing still.
2021-07-02 10:00:51	curdlesnoot	the median is not at your level.
2021-07-02 10:01:00	peetaur	like now when your xorg screensaver crashes, it gives some error and you can unlock it with   loginctl unlock-sessions   instead of your desktop simply being unlocked
2021-07-02 10:01:36	phogg	curdlesnoot: what happened, though, was an interloper came along who was *willing* to put in the political effort and social pressure to get distros to move. That's the only thing systemd had going for it. And that will came from the desire to achieve the "secret goal".
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2021-07-02 10:01:51	Fleck	peetaur: https://p.rullz.lv/ibedojiweh.rb
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2021-07-02 10:02:03	Fleck	before swap it was nvme0n1
2021-07-02 10:02:30	Fleck	by nvme -list I know it's the same drive
2021-07-02 10:02:31	peetaur	heh I hate hastebin too but it at least works
2021-07-02 10:02:39	varaindemian	phogg https://pastebin.com/cbGRq4TS
2021-07-02 10:02:45	varaindemian	last update
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2021-07-02 10:03:29	curdlesnoot	phogg: if it's so false, then where were the initiatives? why are hundreds and thousands of posts and comments that have been made over time to the effect that the "embarassment" (your word) is just fine? you surely must have noticed them. have you ever tried explaining to your average user - or even maintainer - why pidfiles are fundamentally stupid? it's not so easy.
2021-07-02 10:03:33	phogg	varaindemian: if shell check does not complain then it is probably good enough. It is not exactly what I would do.
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2021-07-02 10:04:47	curdlesnoot	phogg: it takes more than to simply create something like daemontools and s6. it also takes some marketing and campaigning to overcome intertia. I think flac is an example of one project where that was understood.
2021-07-02 10:04:49	phogg	curdlesnoot: The alternatives were things like runit, which could work just fine atop sysvinit (or any minimal initd). You just stop using sysvinit for doing service supervision (which it was never good at anyway).
2021-07-02 10:04:52	peetaur	Fleck: ok this is very unfamiliar output... I never use atop... is that what this is? So the DSK lines have disk stuff but they look mostly ok... 7.8k write iops is not terrible (better than my consumer SATA, worse than my consumer NVMe for some workloads but not all, and doesn't compare to DC nvme which does >100k iops), but not great. Is this the good disk or bad?
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2021-07-02 10:05:25	peetaur	but it's hard to judge whether 7k is good withotu seeing things like average queue size, average request size, util%, etc. like iostat -xm would give you
2021-07-02 10:05:32	peetaur	or....seeing what benchmark you used
2021-07-02 10:05:38	phogg	curdlesnoot: and I don't dispute the usefulness of, and need for, an alternative to pidfiles. That's something that could have been added to *any* of the existing service supervision daemons. Little attempt was made to justify not doing so.
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2021-07-02 10:05:45	curdlesnoot	phogg: you know what I mean.
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2021-07-02 10:06:53	phogg	curdlesnoot: If the goal was to improve function then the correct course of action would have been to take a project which provided function, add to it anything critical it was missing, and push for the use of it. That did not happen, and that's the problem.
2021-07-02 10:07:06	phogg	This was jackd vs. pulseaudio all over again in that regard.
2021-07-02 10:07:18	curdlesnoot	phogg: ... which is exactly what I was saying. complacency and the difficult of overcoming inertia against.
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2021-07-02 10:07:27	sudomannn	I just increased the size of my linux vm's disk and suddenly my security key wont unencrypt it on boot
2021-07-02 10:07:27	Fleck	peetaur: you can see both disks there... nvme0 and nvme1, they are in RAID 1 config, so I write to both of them at the same time (kinda), one is 10%, other is 100%
2021-07-02 10:07:31	sudomannn	is this recoverable
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2021-07-02 10:07:38	phogg	curdlesnoot: I think complacency is a very incorrect term to describe the attitude of the time
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2021-07-02 10:07:53	curdlesnoot	phogg: devuan is the living embodiment of what I'm talking about.
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2021-07-02 10:08:03	phogg	curdlesnoot: in what way?
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2021-07-02 10:08:22	peetaur	Fleck: so...you are only testing the raid1, not individually? I don't know if that is valid...
2021-07-02 10:08:44	Fleck	:/
2021-07-02 10:08:47	peetaur	oh I see the "busy" column.... I guess that may be %util from iostat
2021-07-02 10:09:14	curdlesnoot	phogg: an association of "verteran" unix admins that were quite happy with the "embarassment", and forked to continue it, no less. their only selling point is "it's not systemd". where were they when it came to promoting daemontools, s6 or other solutions to the point of becoming a de-facto standard?
2021-07-02 10:09:32	peetaur	Fleck: weird stuff happens with virtual layers... maybe it's doing a sync write on one, and doing reordering and async on the other..how can we know?
2021-07-02 10:09:42	phogg	curdlesnoot: the fact that devuan still ships with sysvinit has nothing to do with people thinking that it is an optimal initd. It's used because "that's what we had before" and goal #1 is not getting locked in to systemd. Goal #2 is doing something better.
2021-07-02 10:09:56	curdlesnoot	phogg: I'll believe #2 when I see it.
2021-07-02 10:10:15	curdlesnoot	sounds like RightAroundTheCorner(tm) to me.
2021-07-02 10:10:16	phogg	curdlesnoot: there has been some effort to make #2 happen, but only a limited amount of talent dedicated to it.
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2021-07-02 10:10:34	Fleck	peetaur: idk, thats why I am here for help! :)
2021-07-02 10:10:36	phogg	curdlesnoot: in the end *forcing* a change to "something better" is also antithetical to the goals of people who promote a choice.
2021-07-02 10:11:12	Dagmar	Writing something hundreds of times more complex is also antithetical to the goal of reasonable maintenance efforts
2021-07-02 10:11:17	peetaur	Fleck: well... one thing to do in troubleshooting is isolate all variables. You did a good job at lots, like swapping controllers, but also test them individually first.
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2021-07-02 10:11:20	phogg	curdlesnoot: it's a shame that so much time and attention is being wasted on systemd, a thing which I have no doubt is a dead end and will wind up on the scrap heap of history.
2021-07-02 10:11:26	Dagmar	But you know, I guess it had been a while since anyone had to deal with init giving out root shells
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2021-07-02 10:12:16	Fleck	peetaur: ok, will try booting them separate and see how they perform with degraded raid,,,
2021-07-02 10:12:18	Dagmar	When people write something completely from scratch they get to take all the credit and glory for themselves
2021-07-02 10:12:22	Dagmar	"Blame" is for *other* people
2021-07-02 10:12:53	peetaur	Fleck: why booting...is this hwraid?
2021-07-02 10:13:04	peetaur	to truly isolate them, boot a separate disk probably
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2021-07-02 10:13:23	Fleck	peetaur: no, SSDs are the only storage there
2021-07-02 10:13:31	Fleck	ofc I can live boot from usb
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2021-07-02 10:13:46	peetaur	simpler is best....raw disk with no raid, not primary vs secondary. boot a usb or netboot
2021-07-02 10:14:18	Dagmar	Scrolling up a bit, some people would maybe realize that if they keep having to explain something over and over that they might be wrong.
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2021-07-02 10:16:00	phogg	I'm not trying to convince anyone about systemd (not any more). Someone asked about the anti-systemd POV above or I would not have said anything.
2021-07-02 10:16:46	Dagmar	I'm just getting tired of the bombast
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2021-07-02 10:17:00	Fleck	thank you for your time and sugestions peetaur, greatly appreciated
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2021-07-02 10:18:05	Dagmar	I solve the pid file "problem" with a simple flock()
2021-07-02 10:18:16	Dagmar	f**k platforms that don't have a rational flock()
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2021-07-02 10:18:57	curdlesnoot	phogg: that's not exactly what happened, but I'll leave it. it's run its course.
2021-07-02 10:19:04	phogg	Dagmar: .. and don't store pidfiles on NFS
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2021-07-02 10:19:33	Dagmar	It wouldn't make any sense to do that
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2021-07-02 10:19:48	peetaur	so apparently they say kyber is the scheduler for fast ssds... it's small and simple so it has low overhead, but allows priority and stuff noop doesn't
2021-07-02 10:19:51	peetaur	https://lwn.net/Articles/720675/
2021-07-02 10:20:28	Dagmar	I'll only be storing stuff like that on the local machine, even if it means using tmpfs
2021-07-02 10:20:52	phogg	it was more of a joke. You could actually do it today on Linux and it would be fine
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2021-07-02 10:21:34	peetaur	I have a netboot image that is pure nfs ....so likely has pidfiles on nfs. I never knew there was any such problem.
2021-07-02 10:21:38	Dagmar	I know it works with NFSv4.
2021-07-02 10:21:46	Dagmar	I still don't particuarly trust it.  Heh
2021-07-02 10:22:04	peetaur	(or would that all be on tmpfs ... I never looked)
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2021-07-02 10:22:33	Dagmar	peetaur: With older NFS implementations it definitely didn't work because it could be raced
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2021-07-02 10:25:19	curdlesnoot	I think you'd have to create directories, not files, if you want to avoid said race, but I'm even sure that's safe in older implementations come to think of it.
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2021-07-02 10:26:17	peetaur	does the race only happen with multiple clients? my image is read only for all but 1 client
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2021-07-02 10:29:21	varaindemian	phogg how would you do it? :D
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2021-07-02 10:32:26	n00b101	Is it a needed thing to have a debian based distribution when you're working in different projects?Some aur stuff may be in official Ubuntu repo..
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2021-07-02 10:33:19	akik	n00b101: the project you're working with sets the requirements
2021-07-02 10:34:44	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: one comment I have: having an -f test is actually a form of TOCTOU race. you could just do `if read -r window_pid < /var/videowall/pythong/"$2"; then ...`, perhaps also validating the input, if you want to be cautious.
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2021-07-02 10:38:24	Dagmar	peetaur: Uhh... I may be misunderstanding you but you can't get a flock() at all on a file that you don't have write permissions for
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2021-07-02 10:39:25	Dagmar	If you could drop an *ahem* system-wide flock() on a file you don't have any authority over... it would be bad
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2021-07-02 10:40:00	peetaur	ok so the problem would not affect the read only, implying either it only breaks things I don't care about, or it's all on tmpfs
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2021-07-02 10:40:07	Dagmar	Pretty much
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2021-07-02 10:40:56	Dagmar	I do the flock thing because I know it can't be raced, and I can be sure the process that wrote the pid number still owns the thing so for at least _that_ brief and shining moment I've got a reasonable assurance about the indicated process
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2021-07-02 10:41:25	peetaur	the image's purpose is just troubleshooting btw... no need for isos and usb sticks and stupid busybox; everything I need and all the zfs tools and whatever are there
2021-07-02 10:41:37	Dagmar	Technically there's also a race condition there, but well... having to wrap the process list between checks would be an interesting thing to do without the box being noticeably on fire
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2021-07-02 10:42:38	varaindemian	phogg implemented!
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2021-07-02 10:42:55	varaindemian	phogg now I want to move windows to a given postions
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2021-07-02 10:42:58	varaindemian	on my screen
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2021-07-02 10:48:33	twiclo	I'm pretty confused about how to remap a key in linux. I know there's stuff like setxkbmap -option caps:escape but what if I don't know the name of the key according to setxkbmap?
2021-07-02 10:49:04	akik	twiclo: xmodmap -pke
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2021-07-02 10:50:02	twiclo	Okay so the one I need to remap is "Menu NoSymbol Menu". But I doubt setxkbmap can take that as an argument
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2021-07-02 10:50:20	twiclo	Oh I guess it's just "menu"
2021-07-02 10:50:27	Fleck	peetaur: yeah, they both perform similar when removed from raid :/
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2021-07-02 10:50:49	Fleck	first 100GB are fast, then slowdown
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2021-07-02 10:52:01	peetaur	Fleck: fast then slow can be cache related... how do you test?
2021-07-02 10:52:22	twiclo	akik: I can't find what key the mod key is
2021-07-02 10:52:41	twiclo	Found it
2021-07-02 10:53:29	twiclo	setxkbmap -option menu:super_l
2021-07-02 10:53:35	twiclo	That didn't seem to do anything
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2021-07-02 10:54:35	Fleck	peetaur: with dd if=/dev/zero
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2021-07-02 10:55:28	peetaur	Fleck: I suggest fio.     fio -ioengine=libaio -bs=4k -direct=1 -thread -rw=randwrite -filename=/dev/nvme0n1_warning_data_goes_bye_bye -name="test" -iodepth=64 -runtime=120 -sync=1 -time_based --eta-newline=1
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2021-07-02 10:56:15	peetaur	change -filename to what to test.... a file on a fs, lvm volume, direct raw disk..... and add -size=... if you don't want to test the entire device/filse
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2021-07-02 10:56:29	Fleck	peetaur: ok, will do that!
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2021-07-02 11:09:50	Dagmar	-fi -fee -fum -fo
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2021-07-02 11:10:32	Dagmar	MAybe don't do that often since you're basically just burning up writes like theres no tomorrow
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2021-07-02 11:11:18	schillingklaus	dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null
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2021-07-02 11:13:19	Fleck	peetaur: https://p.rullz.lv/igiluwupun.cs and https://p.rullz.lv/uxihofecul.cs
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2021-07-02 11:35:15	peetaur	Fleck: ok looks pretty similar...most of the difference in the output is from it using usec for one and msec for the other
2021-07-02 11:35:46	Fleck	conclusion?
2021-07-02 11:36:02	peetaur	and 2552 iops isn't really that high...what kind of ssd is it? SATA SSDs can do like 3-6k (samsung evo does 3600 or so I think), and NVMe with pcie interface ought to be higher
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2021-07-02 11:36:20	Fleck	Intel 660p nvme
2021-07-02 11:36:22	peetaur	(consumer ones I mean... DC ones go sky high, and optane and whatever are another class)
2021-07-02 11:36:25	peetaur	oh yeah you told me already.
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2021-07-02 11:36:54	HumbleGuy	help, why isnt this patch working? https://dwm.suckless.org/patches/spawn_cwd/dwm-6.0-spawn_cwd.diff  i patched it succesefully (with some tinkering) but can't seem to make it work, am i missing something?
2021-07-02 11:37:33	peetaur	https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/149407/intel-ssd-660p-series-1-0tb-m-2-80mm-pcie-3-0-x4-3d2-qlc.html  ummm  " Random Write (8GB Span) (up to) 220000 IOPS"
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2021-07-02 11:38:06	peetaur	they don't havea  number for "sync" rand write though... cached is just cheating, and not real world usage
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2021-07-02 11:38:45	peetaur	but 220k is very high still... if it is an honest number with some actual meaning, a non-sync heavy workload like a desktop, not a database, might benefit
2021-07-02 11:38:50	Fleck	yeah while I used dd for first 100GB it was 1.8GB/s-1.4GB/s
2021-07-02 11:39:27	peetaur	and....I put   --eta-newline=1  in my example command and wanted to see it.... you can see the trend over time. Was the start really fast and then cache filled and it was slow after?
2021-07-02 11:39:39	peetaur	it should print the avg ever eta-newline seconds
2021-07-02 11:39:43	peetaur	*every
2021-07-02 11:39:52	Fleck	nope it was like that all the time
2021-07-02 11:40:08	Fleck	Jobs: 1 (f=1): [w(1)][2.5%][w=9.00MiB/s][w=2559 IOPS][eta 01m:57s]
2021-07-02 11:40:11	Fleck	first line
2021-07-02 11:40:11	peetaur	you didn't exclude the output? the program just didn't print it? (I've seen that ... not sure why)
2021-07-02 11:40:24	peetaur	oh yeah those lines ....they don't seem to be in the paste
2021-07-02 11:40:37	Fleck	yeah I didn't include them, they are all the same
2021-07-02 11:40:39	peetaur	but you answered anyway...stable
2021-07-02 11:40:43	Fleck	around 10MB/s
2021-07-02 11:41:23	peetaur	ok so now do some real world tests if you really care...and maybe I'll bench my samsung m.2 thing and we can compare (11k I think it was when new?)
2021-07-02 11:41:26	peetaur	but have to go for now
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2021-07-02 12:02:01	w1kl4s	is there a way i can filter symlinks by their destination? i have a /dev/ name and i want to get its location in /dev/disk/by-id
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2021-07-02 12:02:45	w1kl4s	so far i have this ugh loop that does the job, but it could be much better imo: `for f in $(ls /dev/disk/by-id/ | sed '/^wwn/d');do readlink -nf $f | grep -w '/dev/sda' > /dev/null && echo "/dev/disk/by-id/${f}"; done`
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2021-07-02 12:13:34	uwharrie	w1kl4s: rather than do a reverse lookup on symlinks, why not find the id directly with something like `blkid /dev/sda`
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2021-07-02 12:14:53	uwharrie	or what ever invocation udev uses to create the symlink in the first place
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2021-07-02 12:15:25	w1kl4s	i guess i could craft the by-id name with lsblk output
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2021-07-02 12:17:37	uwharrie	it's configured in /usr/lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-storage.rules on the system I'm currently looking at
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2021-07-02 12:17:54	ionface	I think find -lname does something like you want
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2021-07-02 12:20:43	ionface	find /dev/disk/by-id -lname '*sda'
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2021-07-02 12:21:14	uwharrie	good tip, didn't know GNU find had that option
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2021-07-02 12:21:21	ionface	UUIDs would be better probably
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2021-07-02 12:21:43	uwharrie	I was trying to craft something to force it to follow the symlink and match the block device's inode
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2021-07-02 12:36:09	peetaur	w1kl4s: blkid is a better way I think, but FYI there's   find /dev/disk/by-id/ -lname "*sda*"
2021-07-02 12:36:39	peetaur	oh ionface already said that :)
2021-07-02 12:37:16	w1kl4s	oooooh yeah -lname is exactly what i was looking for
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2021-07-02 12:38:10	w1kl4s	blkid is not gonna work, since i need to parse that later and work with partitions, so i wanted the /dev/disk/by-id/ names because there you have $name-partn syntax
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2021-07-02 12:38:29	w1kl4s	and uuids are gonna be unique per partition
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2021-07-02 13:00:22	lionkking	War between freenode and libera is getting worse each day, save yourself join irc freenode chat for your freedom.
2021-07-02 13:01:49	Sauvin	lionkking, take it to -offtopic.
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2021-07-02 13:02:28	P4ddyF	isnt that called gaslighting?
2021-07-02 13:02:48	<--	Kadigan_ (~Kadigan@user/kadigan) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-02 13:03:09	<--	deavmi_ (~tbk@user/deavmi) has quit (Quit: Eish! Load shedding.)
2021-07-02 13:03:12	P4ddyF	crap, i did it again. appologies
2021-07-02 13:03:20	Mekaneck	lionkking: save yourself join irc libera chat for your freedom.
2021-07-02 13:03:21	Sauvin	Did what?
2021-07-02 13:03:27	Dagmar	Well, you're not wrong
2021-07-02 13:03:33	Revelator	Considering freenode is the ones who tries to make it into a problem.. *scratches head*
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2021-07-02 13:05:02	Sauvin	And our freedom-loving friend is using mIRC.
2021-07-02 13:05:06	hodapp	lionkking: go fuck a cactus; we've seen what sort of "freedom" freenode is into.
2021-07-02 13:05:19	Sauvin	hodapp, language. Also: offtopic.
2021-07-02 13:05:34	mybalzitch	ban the obvious troll then
2021-07-02 13:05:54	Sauvin	I can't. This isn't Freenode.
2021-07-02 13:06:42	msiism	So, "ops" are powerless on Libera?
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2021-07-02 13:07:24	Mekaneck	In various channels ops lately seem to refuse to do something about people that aren't behaving. Even when getting unwanted PM's...
2021-07-02 13:07:28	Sauvin	No, it's just that we don't ban impulsively or for trivial reasons.
2021-07-02 13:07:44	hodapp	guess I'll go find a cactus then.
2021-07-02 13:08:01	Sauvin	Mekaneck, it's hard to do anything about things like PMs.
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2021-07-02 13:08:08	lionkking	lol
2021-07-02 13:08:32	peetaur	for PMS you should ask in #libera
2021-07-02 13:08:32	msiism	Sauvin: But doesn't this mean subjecting the users of this channel to consuming a lot of outright trash?
2021-07-02 13:09:00	Dagmar	Delicious spooler services
2021-07-02 13:09:06	Sauvin	No, not a lot. I said: "take it to -offtopic". I'll only say that a time or two - maybe three - and then out comes the banhammer.
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2021-07-02 13:09:40	 *	msiism just read bananahammer.
2021-07-02 13:09:42	Mekaneck	Sauvin: not if it's harrasment and the trolls in question keep provoking you in the channels
2021-07-02 13:09:57	Sauvin	I saw *one* incident.
2021-07-02 13:10:17	peetaur	also to avoid PM from unwanted people you set a flag   /umode +R  (no messages from unregistered)
2021-07-02 13:10:29	Sauvin	On the other net, you often get banned or even z-lined just for MENTIONing this place. Libera isn't going to sink to that level.
2021-07-02 13:10:37	<--	lionkking (~lionkking@184.22.209.151) has quit (K-Lined)
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2021-07-02 13:10:55	ayecee	what a bold prediction
2021-07-02 13:11:03	 *	msiism giggles.
2021-07-02 13:11:05	Sauvin	That's what I thought. Our freedom-loving friend was spreading the wealth.
2021-07-02 13:11:51	Mekaneck	there we go, lionkking got klined
2021-07-02 13:12:03	ayecee	the system works!
2021-07-02 13:12:10	skill	heh
2021-07-02 13:12:44	Sauvin	Yup. I... um... well... erm.... that is to say... heh. OK, I'll admit it. I shared this incident with Libera staff.
2021-07-02 13:13:08	ayecee	the system works in mysterious ways.
2021-07-02 13:13:11	peetaur	praise to the libera staff and Sauvin
2021-07-02 13:13:18	firepup	does anyone have a rough idea how long it takes for meson to finish configuring
2021-07-02 13:13:23	Sauvin	Sometimes. "Um... hey... staff? We might have an "agent" here...."
2021-07-02 13:14:06	msiism	firepup: Wild guess: ages.
2021-07-02 13:14:12	firepup	damn it
2021-07-02 13:14:16	msiism	:)
2021-07-02 13:14:37	firepup	im still waiting on 'build targets in project: 400'
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2021-07-02 13:14:42	PaulFertser	What's funny is that he just got Z-lined on Freenode for exactly the same message on the abandoned #openwrt channel.
2021-07-02 13:14:46	phogg	firepup: that's rather a lot
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2021-07-02 13:15:18	phogg	PaulFertser: probably due to the reference to libera
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2021-07-02 13:16:31	Sauvin	Actually, this I didn't know: *.net is what replaced our old Freenode. There's an *.chat that's a completely different entity and has nothing to do with past OR present Freenode.
2021-07-02 13:16:45	velix	Are there more "tuned" kernels like liquorix and xanmod?
2021-07-02 13:17:03	phogg	there are (or have been) lots and lots of those
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2021-07-02 13:17:08	Dagmar	YEah pretty much any idiot can build a kernel and tamper with the parameters
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2021-07-02 13:17:53	Sauvin	Sometimes, an idiot like *me* can even do it successfully.
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2021-07-02 13:18:08	 *	rascul builds Sauvin's kernel
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2021-07-02 13:20:49	schillingklaus	dagmar has built more kernels than even Linus himself
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2021-07-02 13:23:49	phogg	I used to have a script polling kernel.org which would download new kernels as soon as they hit stable, then notify me to start building. I should probably set that up again.
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2021-07-02 13:24:13	phogg	I don't think it could ever be 100% automatic since half the fun is sorting through new config options, but that did mean I always had the latest and greatest features.
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2021-07-02 13:24:47	Sauvin	Sometimes "latest" ain't so great.
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2021-07-02 13:25:26	Dagmar	The other half of the fun is frantically building the next one when yesterday's build turns out to have a terrible regression or 0-day
2021-07-02 13:25:30	phogg	name one regrettable feature regression in Linux, apart from console scrollback
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2021-07-02 13:25:48	phogg	bugs sometimes creep in, but they're shockingly rare in the mainline branch
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2021-07-02 13:26:05	Dagmar	https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-511-CPUFreq-Inv-Fix-Patch
2021-07-02 13:26:06	curdlesnoot	he didn't say feature regression, though. regressions of all kinds happen all the time.
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2021-07-02 13:26:23	curdlesnoot	even in the longterm series, sadly.
2021-07-02 13:26:41	phogg	but I did say "latest and greatest *features*", so...
2021-07-02 13:26:53	curdlesnoot	the risk of botched backports seems to increase, as they age.
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2021-07-02 13:27:33	phogg	performance regressions don't bother me for this sort of "trying new stuff for fun" scenario
2021-07-02 13:27:56	phogg	bugs aren't a big deal either as long as they don't trash my data
2021-07-02 13:28:06	curdlesnoot	no, I wouldn't be worried about performance regressions if that's your bag. I mean, they get sorted out eventually.
2021-07-02 13:28:12	curdlesnoot	(either, I mean)
2021-07-02 13:28:13	phogg	data trashing bugs are pretty uncommon. Maybe a handful in the last 20 years?
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2021-07-02 13:28:39	curdlesnoot	although, I'm less than pleased to have encountered not one but two major performance regressions in the current mesa series. granted, it's not the kernel's fault.
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2021-07-02 13:28:52	phogg	curdlesnoot: oh? Do tell
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2021-07-02 13:28:58	curdlesnoot	phogg: hang on
2021-07-02 13:29:01	phogg	we all come here for the juicy mesa gossip
2021-07-02 13:29:05	forgotmynick	phogg: are you against humour?
2021-07-02 13:29:27	phogg	forgotmynick: yes, I don't like spelling with the extra u
2021-07-02 13:29:53	forgotmynick	phogg: how we in little old England spell humour
2021-07-02 13:29:56	forgotmynick	but phogg you
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2021-07-02 13:30:20	phogg	forgotmynick: yes, it was an example of a thing called a "joke." You see? Humour.
2021-07-02 13:30:53	forgotmynick	yes and i raised you with my double entendre
2021-07-02 13:31:00	Sauvin	Canada, too!
2021-07-02 13:31:14	forgotmynick	anyway that's all folks. please don't forget to like share and subscribe
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2021-07-02 13:31:48	Sauvin	Practise. Colour. Centre. If you don't like it, go eat faeces.
2021-07-02 13:32:06	curdlesnoot	phogg: I was wrong, across two consecutive series. anyway, note the fix for a "30% performance drop" at https://docs.mesa3d.org/relnotes/21.0.3.html. now, funnily enough, 21.1.3 kills performance for me, yet again, so I went back to 21.1.2.
2021-07-02 13:32:14	 *	msiism eats a face.
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2021-07-02 13:32:34	 *	Sauvin admits to being a bit confused about defence/defense - it's what comes from having learned English from different sources
2021-07-02 13:32:52	 *	msiism realizes this wasn't about faces…
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2021-07-02 13:33:40	P4ddyF	i wonder how people manage to keep up with a dozen changes in packages every day
2021-07-02 13:33:51	<--	c705 (c705@alpine/contributor/c705) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-02 13:33:55	P4ddyF	am i missing some tools?
2021-07-02 13:33:59	msiism	P4ddyF: It's just dozens of people.
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2021-07-02 13:35:49	msiism	I mean, nearly no one is crazy enough to maintain a Linux dsitribution on their own as an individual.
2021-07-02 13:36:04	msiism	Some people do that and are agruably not crazy, though.
2021-07-02 13:36:12	msiism	It's confusing…
2021-07-02 13:36:22	Sauvin	Ah, the wonders of things like Seroquel...
2021-07-02 13:36:37	koollman	I'm fairly sure most maintainers are crazy
2021-07-02 13:36:37	P4ddyF	gentoo and arch linux users kind of run their own distro. so how do they manage the changelog changes for example
2021-07-02 13:36:55	schillingklaus	there are many single-handedly maintained distros, especially in the musl world
2021-07-02 13:37:01	Sauvin	P4ddyF, with time, experience and lots of foul language.
2021-07-02 13:37:08	Dagmar	Multiple people is how
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2021-07-02 13:37:15	DrEeevil	P4ddyF: most of the times you can mostly ignore changelogs
2021-07-02 13:37:16	curdlesnoot	P4ddyF: by reading the upstream release notes for packages of interest. in practice, one does not need to know the precise nature of every last change for every single package.
2021-07-02 13:37:18	msiism	schillingklaus: There are?
2021-07-02 13:37:30	DrEeevil	for example, the kernel itself, minor version updates are usually perfectly harmless
2021-07-02 13:37:43	schillingklaus	kiss, oasis, mutiny, zandra, glaucus, ...
2021-07-02 13:37:46	curdlesnoot	P4ddyF: besides which, gentoo doesn't leap to latest upstream stable for everything at the drop of a hat (arch is more like that).
2021-07-02 13:37:53	DrEeevil	schillingklaus: wouldn't say many, but I know two persons who maintain their own distro
2021-07-02 13:38:13	Dagmar	curdlesnoot: Are you sure this isn't some kind of Mandela effect?
2021-07-02 13:38:14	Sauvin	Legitimate distro?
2021-07-02 13:38:36	velix	"Distrobus Legitimatis" ... sounds like harry pottry.
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2021-07-02 13:38:43	velix	Harry potter*
2021-07-02 13:38:45	Sauvin	I can't even begin to recall how many people in this channel (and its forerunner) who've claimed to be developing a whole new distro....
2021-07-02 13:38:46	curdlesnoot	Dagmar: what is "this"?
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2021-07-02 13:38:49	phogg	velix: sounds like a road runner caption
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2021-07-02 13:39:00	velix	phogg: ACME ... booom!
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2021-07-02 13:39:25	akk	It's easy to say "I'm going to make a distro that ...", but it gets a little harder once you actually start trying to do it.
2021-07-02 13:39:41	schillingklaus	c705 would definitely be able to do so, but then it would be neccessary to drop some dearly paying customers
2021-07-02 13:39:48	velix	phogg: There's also a female pr*nstar named "Hairy Potter" ;)
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2021-07-02 13:40:22	msiism	Also, some maintainers simply try to get by by buying into a bend-to-the-machine kind of minimalism.
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2021-07-02 13:41:51	msiism	E.g., they don't provide pre-built binary packages, they make their system English-only, etc.
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2021-07-02 13:42:09	schillingklaus	nothing wrong with English-only
2021-07-02 13:42:16	msiism	Maybe for you.
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2021-07-02 13:43:21	msiism	But "Works for me!" /= "Works!".
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2021-07-02 13:46:25	velix	Anyone with an idea, why shadow-utils don't add an per user subordinate user IDs (/etc/subuid) for system users?
2021-07-02 13:47:29	<--	martums (~randomgue@user/martums) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-02 13:48:11	jim	example?
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2021-07-02 13:49:34	ananke	velix: what makes you think it should?
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2021-07-02 13:50:09	ramzy	yo
2021-07-02 13:50:12	ananke	that would be highly unusual if it would
2021-07-02 13:50:22	Sauvin	Actually, "works for me" == "works", but "works for me" /= "would work for anybody".
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2021-07-02 13:50:44	msiism	Okay, agreed.
2021-07-02 13:51:04	ramzy	was doing a -Syu and acedentally closed the window , will that cause problems ?
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2021-07-02 13:51:56	velix	ananke: MAN doesn't say, that it does NOT work.
2021-07-02 13:52:04	Sauvin	ramzy, if that is what I think it is, it might. I'd restart it.
2021-07-02 13:52:08	velix	ananke: So I expected any UIDs to work.
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2021-07-02 13:52:29	peetaur	ramzy: once pacman process is done, and the lock is removed, and espeically if you run it again to fix it (because maybe it finished some packages, but not others that it depends on but aren't declared or handled right), probably no problems
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2021-07-02 13:52:56	Sauvin	peetaur, with what level of confidence do you say that?
2021-07-02 13:53:01	<--	msiism (~msi@user/msiism) has left #linux (Konversation vaporized.)
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2021-07-02 13:53:12	peetaur	Sauvin: I've had pacman issues and killed it and manually removed lock and had no problems ever.
2021-07-02 13:53:21	peetaur	but there are always edge cases for everything :)
2021-07-02 13:53:32	ananke	velix: define 'any UIDs to work'
2021-07-02 13:53:40	Sauvin	Of course, but if you've been there and done that and can still smile, it's all good.
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2021-07-02 13:54:05	ramzy	so what should i do...
2021-07-02 13:54:27	peetaur	and pacman based is easy to fix too... even if you broke it badly enough that pacman can't run, you can untar a package (such as pacman or its deps), or with rescue media, you can use pacstrap to install things without running the broken pacman.
2021-07-02 13:54:38	curdlesnoot	ramzy: issue -Syu again and see whether there are any problems. chances are there won't be. and, perhaps, consider using tmux or such if you're prone to doing this.
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2021-07-02 13:55:05	peetaur	there was a lovely bug on Manjaro where if your /var/cache/pacman was a separate fs it would crash or something while upgrading pacman and then pacman doesn't work. So I know these things. :)
2021-07-02 13:55:06	ramzy	i ran -Syu ,said nothimg to do
2021-07-02 13:55:06	velix	ananke: 1 sec
2021-07-02 13:55:46	peetaur	ramzy: that sounds like it finished then... so I would wait for some clue about a problem before you suspect anything.
2021-07-02 13:56:40	velix	ananke: https://bpa.st/KEBQ  -  see? UIDs below 1000 aren't triggering subuid creation. Neither system nor direct UID assignment. I don't see a reason for this.
2021-07-02 13:56:40	Sauvin	Yeah, in my Debian-oriented world, "nothing to do" means "nothing wrong here!"
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2021-07-02 13:58:04	ramzy	when i closed the window it had already downloaded everything and was doing some compile/build/install magic
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2021-07-02 13:58:45	ananke	velix: sounds like you should check with your distro maintainers, as automatic population of /etc/subuild is NOT a feature on many
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2021-07-02 13:59:25	ananke	(system user or not)
2021-07-02 13:59:54	peetaur	rascul: compile...? was it pacman or an AUR helper?
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2021-07-02 14:00:19	rascul	what did i compile this time?
2021-07-02 14:00:19	curdlesnoot	suppose it could also have been a dkms hook.
2021-07-02 14:00:22	peetaur	normally AUR stuff needs some interaction in between things or it won't finish
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2021-07-02 14:00:29	peetaur	curdlesnoot: good pint
2021-07-02 14:00:32	peetaur	*point
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2021-07-02 14:01:01	curdlesnoot	in which case, I'm not exactly what happens if it's interrupted. you might then have to trigger it again.
2021-07-02 14:01:06	curdlesnoot	not sure
2021-07-02 14:01:12	velix	ananke: Oh okay. I thought there is. Sorry for the noise.
2021-07-02 14:01:31	rascul	it is here
2021-07-02 14:01:45	peetaur	if it's the sort of thing that cleanly ends when it feels like it instead of right away, it might even finish everything before it really quits after the SIGHUP
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2021-07-02 14:02:12	curdlesnoot	peetaur: as you say, I wouldn't worry unless some obvious issue arises.
2021-07-02 14:02:14	peetaur	so since there's "nothing to do" that's either really coincidental, or it quits when all done
2021-07-02 14:02:14	rascul	opensuse appears to do the subuid thing when i useradd a non system user
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2021-07-02 14:02:54	velix	rascul: could you try uid 666 or such ?
2021-07-02 14:02:55	ananke	rascul: which version? I've never seen opensuse or sles touch /etc/subuid on adduser
2021-07-02 14:02:59	curdlesnoot	peetaur: in particular, if that doesn't proceed to bitch about being locked.
2021-07-02 14:03:03	rascul	ananke tumbleweed
2021-07-02 14:03:10	rascul	it may be related to lxc/lxd though
2021-07-02 14:03:13	velix	adduser is distro, useradd is shadow-tols ?
2021-07-02 14:03:13	ananke	rascul: ahh, that may explain
2021-07-02 14:03:16	peetaur	yeah normally if it quits at the wrong time, it doesn't clean the lock
2021-07-02 14:03:20	curdlesnoot	right
2021-07-02 14:03:31	curdlesnoot	suggests that the circumstance was trapped
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2021-07-02 14:03:43	ananke	velix: right, though adduser is often a wrapper for useradd
2021-07-02 14:03:45	rascul	velix nope doesn't do it with 666
2021-07-02 14:03:45	curdlesnoot	or that it had literally just finished.
2021-07-02 14:03:52	rascul	i don't know anything about adduser
2021-07-02 14:04:06	rascul	bash: type: adduser: not found
2021-07-02 14:04:56	ananke	rascul: ohh, interesting. this must be a new feature. 15.2 suddenly adds entries to /etc/subuid
2021-07-02 14:05:04	rascul	oh
2021-07-02 14:05:20	velix	I mean, I'd be fine with system users or users below 1000 ... But then it should be in the manpage ;)
2021-07-02 14:05:30	velix	It was kinda unexpected.
2021-07-02 14:05:37	peetaur	there was also a major pacman update recently... now it shows overall progress and some other things I forget; maybe they changed that too
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2021-07-02 14:06:31	rascul	velix search the useradd man page for 'subuid' there are some things in mine
2021-07-02 14:06:54	velix	rascul: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/subuid.5.html <-- isn't this the "official" one?
2021-07-02 14:07:09	rascul	If /etc/subuid exists, the commands useradd and newusers (unless the user already have subordinate user IDs) allocate SUB_UID_COUNT unused user IDs from the range SUB_UID_MIN to SUB_UID_MAX for each new user. The default values for SUB_UID_MIN, SUB_UID_MAX, SUB_UID_COUNT are respectively 100000, 600100000 and 65536.
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2021-07-02 14:07:24	velix	yeah, but it doesn't say anything about the 1000 limit
2021-07-02 14:07:27	velix	I mean 1000 minimum.
2021-07-02 14:07:38	rascul	subuid(5) describes the file not how things get in there
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2021-07-02 14:08:35	velix	https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/newuidmap.1.html ?
2021-07-02 14:08:45	velix	no, that's the tool, which WRITES the file ;)
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2021-07-02 14:09:26	rascul	what?
2021-07-02 14:09:29	kurahaupo	phogg: I would prefer a single call to getent: IFS=: read -r USER _ uid gid gecos HOME SHELL < <( getent passwd $( id -u ) )
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2021-07-02 14:23:49	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: given the use of bash, might as well just use $UID there?
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2021-07-02 14:25:42	curdlesnoot	well, EUID
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2021-07-02 14:30:41	kurahaupo	curdlesnoot: true. I originally just wrote $whoever but changed it to $(id -u) to match the original question
2021-07-02 14:30:49	akik	velix: do you mean /etc/login.defs settings?
2021-07-02 14:31:01	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: oh, right.
2021-07-02 14:31:20	curdlesnoot	doesn't particularly matter anyway. was just thinking out loud.
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2021-07-02 14:39:24	ArchLinux	oi
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2021-07-02 14:48:04	Nosrep	how come when i try to create a bridge with `ip link add name br0 type bridge` ip says "Error: unknown device type"
2021-07-02 14:48:42	firepup	is there even a device called br0 nosrep?
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2021-07-02 14:49:25	rascul	it would be a different error if br0 already existed
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2021-07-02 14:50:19	Nosrep	no device called br0
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2021-07-02 14:50:26	Nosrep	i'm trying to create a bridge called br0
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2021-07-02 14:51:00	curdlesnoot	bridge kernel module unavailable, perhaps?
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2021-07-02 14:51:49	VMGuy23	Is there a way to run "Shared Library" files from PCmanFM? I can run them from terminal just fine.
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2021-07-02 14:52:28	rascul	VMGuy23 what is an example of one of these files" shared libraries aren't typically executed, and in fact i know of only one (glibc) that supports it
2021-07-02 14:52:37	rascul	s/"/?/
2021-07-02 14:52:39	curdlesnoot	Nosrep: I'll hazard a guess: you're an arch user and upgraded your kernel without rebooting.
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2021-07-02 14:53:15	Nosrep	maybe
2021-07-02 14:53:19	VMGuy23	rascul: Anything compiled with Lime+Hxcpp
2021-07-02 14:53:20	Nosrep	i haven't rebooted in a while
2021-07-02 14:53:26	Nosrep	brb gonna restart
2021-07-02 14:53:28	rascul	VMGuy23 i don't know what that is
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2021-07-02 14:53:38	lacroix	Nosrep, that will solve it.
2021-07-02 14:54:08	VMGuy23	rascul: a game called friday night funkin that became popular recently
2021-07-02 14:54:18	velix	rascul: I'm still going through the git issues. I think it's just a limit that SUB_UIDs simply start at 1000
2021-07-02 14:54:48	rascul	velix i wasn't able to find anything about that specifically in docs either
2021-07-02 14:55:01	rascul	VMGuy23 this is a shared library?
2021-07-02 14:55:22	VMGuy23	rascul: in the zip
2021-07-02 14:55:25	NotArchElitist	guys why dose sound stop working when i use the 5.10 kernel and above
2021-07-02 14:55:33	VMGuy23	on the itch.io page
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2021-07-02 14:56:35	rascul	VMGuy23 you are trying to run lime.ndll?
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2021-07-02 14:57:14	VMGuy23	no, the file called @Funkin@
2021-07-02 14:57:22	rascul	that's not a shared library
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2021-07-02 14:57:32	VMGuy23	it says it is in file manager
2021-07-02 14:57:40	rascul	i also don't see such a file
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2021-07-02 14:58:04	rascul	i see an executable called Funkin but nothing called @Funkin@
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2021-07-02 14:58:14	VMGuy23	the @'s were a mistake
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2021-07-02 14:58:22	rascul	Funkin is not a shared library
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2021-07-02 14:58:32	rascul	Funkin: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=ee997185992a8d6035c960a38d1df6fa572f1c9a, for GNU/Linux 3.2.0, not stripped
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2021-07-02 14:58:51	VMGuy23	it shows as shared library in Files and says that nothing can open it
2021-07-02 14:59:01	rascul	maybe your file manager is junk
2021-07-02 14:59:10	Nosrep	it works now
2021-07-02 14:59:23	Nosrep	pcmanfm is good
2021-07-02 14:59:23	firepup	if its an executable i would suggest attempting to run it in terminal
2021-07-02 14:59:42	rascul	it is an executable that the file manager apparently thinks is a shared library and won't run it
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2021-07-02 15:00:10	VMGuy23	firepup: i do that but would prefer to launch from file manager
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2021-07-02 15:00:36	rascul	pcmanfm executes it fine here
2021-07-02 15:00:58	VMGuy23	im on pcmanfm and it just loading spinnerthen stops
2021-07-02 15:01:05	VMGuy23	its a mod
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2021-07-02 15:01:53	rascul	something odd is going on for you i guess, it loads the game here
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2021-07-02 15:02:14	VMGuy23	im on Ubuntu by the way
2021-07-02 15:02:14	rascul	also i thought nothing would open it but now it opens?
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2021-07-02 15:03:19	VMGuy23	i can open it with Terminal, it says that nothing can open it when i can just run from terminal
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2021-07-02 15:03:59	rascul	what says that?
2021-07-02 15:04:08	VMGuy23	it opens with "Run Software" by default, which doesnt do anything
2021-07-02 15:04:15	VMGuy23	rascul: nautilus
2021-07-02 15:04:34	rascul	i can't keep track of this you keep jumping all over the place and not providing any context
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2021-07-02 15:06:55	VMGuy23	nautilus says i need something new, pcmanfm tries to open with Run Software and fails
2021-07-02 15:08:00	VMGuy23	software made to launch games can run it fine
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2021-07-02 15:09:19	NotArchElitist	why is this place so quiet
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2021-07-02 15:10:12	jim	because no one is speaking? not sure...
2021-07-02 15:10:14	firepup	i guess most people got other stuff to do
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2021-07-02 15:10:25	NotArchElitist	damn
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2021-07-02 15:11:23	AndroidDAW	how does linux get around ABI and compiler differences when distributing packages via the package manager?
2021-07-02 15:11:39	-->	ralinux (~saje@37.156.190.205) has joined #linux
2021-07-02 15:12:14	jim	AndroidDAW, all packages compiled with the same compiler, and also take that same compiler and release it as a package
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2021-07-02 15:12:47	AndroidDAW	what if the compiler gets updated?
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2021-07-02 15:13:31	jim	then it goes into the next version of the dist, or, that update is largely ignored, and the same compiler that got released should be used
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2021-07-02 15:14:53	VMGuy23	From what I can see it's an ELF executable
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2021-07-02 15:15:36	AndroidDAW	what if the distro currently has gcc 9 and the repo has gcc 10?  would the user still be able to build with libs that are built from gcc 9 ?
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2021-07-02 15:17:12	AndroidDAW	eg if the user upgraded gcc to gcc 10 and decided to rebuild a program, would everything fail to compile due to compiler differences due to everything on the current system being pre-built with gcc 9?
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2021-07-02 15:18:13	jim	well for one thing, the compiler would be built with the libs and programs that are installed (such as the programs in binutils)
2021-07-02 15:18:14	ananke	AndroidDAW: the issue wouldn't be related to gcc specifically, rather all the other libraries said program would be linked against
2021-07-02 15:18:20	firepup	if the gcc was built using libs from gcc9 it should be fine
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2021-07-02 15:20:50	AndroidDAW	eg if the current version of curl is built with gcc 9, and the current gcc version is 10, and the user tries to rebuild an application that uses curl, would it fail?
2021-07-02 15:21:46	johnnyapol	you can link applications built with different compilers (or different compiler versions)
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2021-07-02 15:22:16	AndroidDAW	what about abi and stuff?
2021-07-02 15:22:27	johnnyapol	the C/C++ abi hasnt changed for a long time
2021-07-02 15:22:33	AndroidDAW	eg using clang to compile instead of gcc, and vice versa
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2021-07-02 15:23:08	johnnyapol	its usually bugs that can result in the need for rebuilds, most of the time rebuilds are a nice-to-have thing (or to enable the usage of new language features)
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2021-07-02 15:23:42	AndroidDAW	what about https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23577663/why-should-the-same-compiler-as-the-dynamic-library-be-used-for-the-dependent-ap
2021-07-02 15:23:45	NotArchElitist	guys
2021-07-02 15:23:55	NotArchElitist	i updated my kernel and my pc exploded
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2021-07-02 15:24:03	NotArchElitist	how can ii fix it
2021-07-02 15:24:04	AndroidDAW	https://stackoverflow.com/a/23577778 *
2021-07-02 15:24:08	firepup	i dont think your pc can explode from updating a kernel
2021-07-02 15:24:21	firepup	plus if it did blow up there wouldn't be anything to fix
2021-07-02 15:24:23	NotArchElitist	it compiled for 12 hours straight
2021-07-02 15:24:45	VMGuy23	Is there a way to run a PIE executable from pcmanfm
2021-07-02 15:24:58	AndroidDAW	johnnyapol: what about https://stackoverflow.com/a/23577778 *
2021-07-02 15:25:12	johnnyapol	I saw it the first two times you posted it :^)
2021-07-02 15:25:25	johnnyapol	in a lot of those cases, it seems to be referring to cygwin and MSVC mixing together
2021-07-02 15:25:38	firepup	NotArchElitist what exactly is the problem
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2021-07-02 15:25:46	firepup	saying your pc exploded isn't helpful
2021-07-02 15:25:56	NotArchElitist	well i want to fix it
2021-07-02 15:26:16	NotArchElitist	its burning
2021-07-02 15:26:27	firepup	if its on fire i think you should put it out
2021-07-02 15:26:36	NotArchElitist	i tried
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2021-07-02 15:26:45	NotArchElitist	my house is on fire
2021-07-02 15:26:56	johnnyapol	which isn't really surprising to me considering cygwin is definitely more of a hack. in a lot of cases, its the standard library implementation that causes issues. by default,clang uses gcc's c++ implementation which helps a lot with them co-existing
2021-07-02 15:26:57	NotArchElitist	should i call the fire deparament?
2021-07-02 15:26:59	firepup	yes
2021-07-02 15:27:14	NotArchElitist	alright wait
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2021-07-02 15:27:16	Nosrep	install gentoo on the burning pc
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2021-07-02 15:28:04	NotArchElitist	i called the fire deparament
2021-07-02 15:28:22	firepup	ok are you in the house?
2021-07-02 15:28:26	NotArchElitist	yes
2021-07-02 15:28:28	johnnyapol	AndroidDAW: For example, I have rust code (clang) that happily will dynamically link against gcc-built glibc and openssl. its how im talking to you right now
2021-07-02 15:28:29	firepup	why-
2021-07-02 15:28:35	NotArchElitist	i wanna fix my pc
2021-07-02 15:28:50	firepup	first focus on staying alive so you can fix your pc
2021-07-02 15:29:08	NotArchElitist	yeah
2021-07-02 15:29:12	NotArchElitist	but i don't see any danger
2021-07-02 15:29:19	firepup	the house is on fire
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2021-07-02 15:29:41	NotArchElitist	yeah
2021-07-02 15:30:00	firepup	then get out bruh
2021-07-02 15:30:33	lacroix	NotArchElitist, you're conversation is providing more noise to discussion here than anything else. So please, unless you have a real question, kindly remain on-topic and constructive
2021-07-02 15:30:35	lacroix	thank you
2021-07-02 15:30:54	NotArchElitist	but i need to fix my linux pc
2021-07-02 15:30:59	NotArchElitist	lacroix
2021-07-02 15:31:17	lacroix	Ask a real question so people around can take from their time and help you
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2021-07-02 15:31:25	lacroix	do not waste your time and ours please :)
2021-07-02 15:31:30	NotArchElitist	I am not :)
2021-07-02 15:31:44	NotArchElitist	My pc runs linux and it caught fire
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2021-07-02 15:31:52	NotArchElitist	how can i stop the fire
2021-07-02 15:31:58	lacroix	last warning
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2021-07-02 15:32:10	NotArchElitist	you're rude, i will ask in other channel
2021-07-02 15:32:14	NotArchElitist	goodbye :(
2021-07-02 15:32:22	AndroidDAW	johnnyapol: ok :)
2021-07-02 15:32:42	Nosrep	and thus notarchelitist was never seen again
2021-07-02 15:32:57	NotArchElitist	Nosrep hello
2021-07-02 15:33:11	Nosrep	shh
2021-07-02 15:33:28	NotArchElitist	why
2021-07-02 15:33:33	NotArchElitist	are we hiding from someone
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2021-07-02 15:35:22	Kyv	NotArchElitist: did you try unplugging it and plugging it back in again
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2021-07-02 15:36:17	NotArchElitist	Yeah Kyv
2021-07-02 15:36:19	NotArchElitist	it works now
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2021-07-02 15:39:06	acegallagher	I have a wacky problem. I'm putting a linux box in an air-gapped network with a *very* old NTP server, 'ntpdate -q' can't query the server... but! if I connect a windows laptop, have the windows laptop query the ntp server, and then try with the linux box it works
2021-07-02 15:39:16	acegallagher	it's as if there's some sort of handshake taking place that linux doesn't do
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2021-07-02 15:39:23	acegallagher	hasanyone seen anything like this?
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2021-07-02 15:49:36	danisanti	since I changed from a Desktop Environment to a Window Manager, vim and less and other does not display 'ç' correctly in xterm. Does anyone know how I can fix this? I already have done a locale-gen
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2021-07-02 15:50:35	Nosrep	can i setup gpu passthrough if i don't have uefi
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2021-07-02 15:53:55	uwharrie	danisanti: you'd need to ensure the LANG environment variable is set correctly in either your profile or X startup script depending on how you log in and start your X session
2021-07-02 15:54:28	uwharrie	best bet would be to add it to your profile and source your profile in either .xinitrc or .xsession
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2021-07-02 15:59:02	danisanti	uwharrie: thank you
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2021-07-02 15:59:11	DLange	danisanti: may it be related to the font that is being used now?
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2021-07-02 16:00:38	danisanti	not sure
2021-07-02 16:00:47	uwharrie	True, that's another possibility
2021-07-02 16:00:52	danisanti	my locale command shows LANG=C
2021-07-02 16:01:00	danisanti	I am fixing this now
2021-07-02 16:01:04	danisanti	;)
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2021-07-02 16:02:16	MuchoLoco	is there any specific that i have to turn off in my UEFI *BIOS* to make linux run without problems?
2021-07-02 16:02:20	MuchoLoco	except secure boot
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2021-07-02 16:02:49	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: UEFI is not BIOS.
2021-07-02 16:03:09	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e88:5359::688b:d309) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-02 16:03:11	MuchoLoco	i am mocking asus for calling their EFI "UEFI BIOS"
2021-07-02 16:03:18	rascul	you don't necessarily need to turn off secure boot either
2021-07-02 16:03:20	velix	rascul: Looool. https://github.com/shadow-maint/shadow/search?q=1000
2021-07-02 16:03:24	velix	rascul: LooL :-)
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2021-07-02 16:03:39	velix	rascul: 2.3k results :-D
2021-07-02 16:03:45	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: and strictly speaking, Secure Boot doesn't really prevent running GNU/Linux systems. You can add your own key or you can use a shim signed with an MS key.
2021-07-02 16:03:49	MuchoLoco	i see no sense it it all, so i have it off anyway. but good to know, thanks, rascul .
2021-07-02 16:03:58	MuchoLoco	lol
2021-07-02 16:04:12	MuchoLoco	it's not for preventing running GNU/Linux ;)
2021-07-02 16:04:47	rascul	velix it appears to be almost all tests
2021-07-02 16:04:58	PaulFertser	So what's your specific concern MuchoLoco, do you have anything in mind?
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2021-07-02 16:05:10	velix	rascul: but my god... so many
2021-07-02 16:05:18	MuchoLoco	idk, some fancy gaming extension maybe
2021-07-02 16:05:35	MuchoLoco	is using XMP a problem?
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2021-07-02 16:05:53	MuchoLoco	because i'm running the AMD version of XMP whose name i just can't remember
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2021-07-02 16:06:28	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-07-02 16:06:29	--	Mode #linux [-bo $a:psi-jack litharge] by litharge
2021-07-02 16:06:47	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: isn't XMP a way to provide additional more aggressive timings for memory?
2021-07-02 16:07:02	lacroix	AndroidDAW: generally the abi hasn't changes which makes what you use vs what they used immaterial.  worst case compile libcurl yourself so you can ensure the same compiler, version and options are used.
2021-07-02 16:07:05	babyface	when you run a .sh file in the terminal why is it necessary to type ./ ?
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2021-07-02 16:07:32	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: with this system i tried 5 different distros and they all either completely failed to boot up the installer or failed with installing a working copy of grub
2021-07-02 16:07:39	PaulFertser	babyface: it's not, but you might want it if you're running a file from current directory as having . in PATH is bad from security PoV.
2021-07-02 16:07:42	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: yes.
2021-07-02 16:08:03	MuchoLoco	babyface: because you do.
2021-07-02 16:08:30	MuchoLoco	babyface: that's how it's built.
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2021-07-02 16:08:48	MuchoLoco	babyface: it's like why do you have to make -foo and no +foo?
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2021-07-02 16:08:59	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: I do not really understand this whole XMP deal. Since they do not provide those timings as standard SPD data I conclude they're unstable in some cases. Apparently they have a set of motherboards where they verified those overclocked settings to be solid.
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2021-07-02 16:09:30	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: what was the error with grub installation?
2021-07-02 16:09:32	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: no no, they're completely stable, if the ram was built for it.
2021-07-02 16:09:48	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: uh i can't remember, it's months ago.
2021-07-02 16:10:06	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: i showed a photo of it in here, nobody knew an answer.
2021-07-02 16:10:25	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: if they're stable then why wouldn't they use them as regular SPD data?
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2021-07-02 16:10:59	MuchoLoco	PaulFertser: because they are for chips that are specifically tested for higher timings.
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2021-07-02 16:11:10	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: grub installation on UEFI is not really complicated: it's just copying grub64.efi to the right location and then adds it to the "Boot variables".
2021-07-02 16:11:36	MuchoLoco	yeah apparently these tried also to write an MBR or something, idk.
2021-07-02 16:11:37	rascul	need that grub partition too if it's gpt
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2021-07-02 16:11:47	MuchoLoco	in the end, the system wouldn't boot anymore.
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2021-07-02 16:11:59	PaulFertser	MuchoLoco: that would be too odd. Please provide real data :)
2021-07-02 16:12:15	rascul	oh only need the partition for bios i think, i don't remember for sure
2021-07-02 16:12:17	MuchoLoco	i'm downloading netinst
2021-07-02 16:12:24	MuchoLoco	maybe i will in a few
2021-07-02 16:12:32	PaulFertser	For Debian?
2021-07-02 16:12:38	lacroix	babyface: . usually isn't in PATH.  (aside, ewww .sh)
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2021-07-02 16:13:01	bewees	is it good enough to use a bios password and restrict booting from USB against the evil made attack?
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2021-07-02 16:13:37	bewees	laptop i'm using doesn't have internal drives accessible easily
2021-07-02 16:13:38	MuchoLoco	no, because if i use a screw driver and...
2021-07-02 16:13:46	MuchoLoco	oh.
2021-07-02 16:14:06	MuchoLoco	well then i'll just put it under my shirt
2021-07-02 16:14:07	c705	bewees: yeah, unless you're taking physical security seriously anyone can pop the cmos and flash the bios
2021-07-02 16:14:09	MuchoLoco	and run away
2021-07-02 16:14:14	bewees	with screw driver you could also flash the bios with secure boot?
2021-07-02 16:14:16	MuchoLoco	because i can run faster than you
2021-07-02 16:14:23	MuchoLoco	hehe
2021-07-02 16:14:25	bewees	c705: yeah
2021-07-02 16:14:25	c705	yup
2021-07-02 16:14:43	Dagmar	Or they can pop the drive and modify the bootstrap to email them your password before unlocking the system
2021-07-02 16:14:53	bewees	ok thanks! then im just going to use a bios password, im too lazy to setup secure boot with LUKS
2021-07-02 16:15:03	Dagmar	...because no one bothers to sign their own bootstrap and replace the motherboard's keyring
2021-07-02 16:15:05	c705	why bother asking then.....
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2021-07-02 16:15:33	MuchoLoco	bios passwords can be reset in notebooks by using a *really* big magnet
2021-07-02 16:15:41	MuchoLoco	didn't you watch breaking bad?
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2021-07-02 16:16:14	bewees	c705: maybe not lazy but dont have spare time
2021-07-02 16:16:30	c705	then why bother asking if you were going to do it anyways?
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2021-07-02 16:17:11	michaelrose	are there any of the XDG.* environmental variables that if unset cause erronious operation from software as opposed to merely warning messages?
2021-07-02 16:17:17	AndroidDAW	lacroix: ok
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2021-07-02 16:17:18	bewees	c705: blogs i read never mentioned using a bios password, i was curious if it has a preventive effect
2021-07-02 16:17:28	firepup	mucholoco it would be easier to just take out the battery
2021-07-02 16:17:45	rascul	michaelrose there shouldn't be because xdg defines defaults to use if the values aren't set in the config file or the environment
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2021-07-02 16:18:17	rascul	but in practice, it's up to the application developer, so who knows
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2021-07-02 16:18:58	PaulFertser	firepup: the password is no longer stored in SRAM, so taking out the battery will work only if UEFI vendor has specific handling to reset the password after such an event.
2021-07-02 16:19:03	bewees	qubesOS author recommended to store the first 64 sector hashes of /dev/sda together with /boot on a bootable linux USB and compare each boot if they still match
2021-07-02 16:19:40	firepup	oh.
2021-07-02 16:19:40	PaulFertser	I should have said CMOS SRAM
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2021-07-02 16:19:57	 *	rascul puts PaulFertser into cmos sram
2021-07-02 16:19:58	c705	bewees: that sounds ridiculous. might as well just have the entire boot sector on the usb at that point
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2021-07-02 16:20:38	bewees	c705: yes I disregarded the idea, better to use TPM at that point
2021-07-02 16:21:00	PaulFertser	Taking out the battery resets some ME state
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2021-07-02 16:21:36	michaelrose	that would have save me from when I put an invalid file on the EFI boot partition and it wouldn't even boot to the setup screen until I uninstalled the NVME drive with the invalid file
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2021-07-02 16:22:33	PaulFertser	michaelrose: that's interesting, do you imply your UEFI implementation boots some EFI files before giving you an opportunity to enter an interactive menu?
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2021-07-02 16:23:29	UQUBE	l i n u x
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2021-07-02 16:24:04	michaelrose	no it just borked it somehow It had a value set in EFI vars and a file that really wasn't an EFI executable
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2021-07-02 16:30:58	amahl	ugh. why is bootloading always so difficult and broken and weird. UEFI and other platforms too
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2021-07-02 16:31:36	PaulFertser	amahl: do you know anything particularly bad about U-Boot?
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2021-07-02 16:33:48	amahl	not yet. mostly seen android phones with ??? bootloaders by samsung and huawei
2021-07-02 16:34:32	amahl	only using uboot on a raspberry. it works
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2021-07-02 16:35:26	PaulFertser	amahl: so if you are only considering legacy BIOSes, UEFI and android bootloaders (fastboot?) then it's all indeed very broken, annoying as hell.
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2021-07-02 16:36:37	hodapp	what's broken with UEFI?
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2021-07-02 16:38:41	rascul	the F
2021-07-02 16:38:44	amahl	some early implementations were bad. like hardcoded to simply load windows and disregard any configuration
2021-07-02 16:38:45	rascul	it should be E
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2021-07-02 16:39:02	rascul	UEEI but they typoed in the official documents and now we're stuck with it
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2021-07-02 16:45:10	roo-	Is there a bidirectional sync tool that isn't required to be installed on both parties? (the other side with ssh/rsync)
2021-07-02 16:45:37	ayecee	no
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2021-07-02 16:46:27	ayecee	you can run rsync twice though, one for each direction
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2021-07-02 16:47:38	kfrench	rsync -a ayecee: eeceya:
2021-07-02 16:47:46	roo-	The problem is that it's not bidirectional, wouldn't be able to say whether a file is needed to be created or to be removed
2021-07-02 16:49:10	moo	there is very good unison but requires it installed on both ends
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2021-07-02 17:00:51	ayecee	roo-: what logic would a bidirectional tool use to decide that?
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2021-07-02 17:02:03	roo-	ayecee: Use the previous transactions to judge whether it's a new file that didn't exist or an existing file that has been removed?
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2021-07-02 17:02:04	ayecee	pretty sure you can do the same logic with two rsyncs, if you can decide what logic you want to use
2021-07-02 17:02:29	ayecee	oh. no, i guess you can't do that.
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2021-07-02 17:02:45	ayecee	that's also more than a bidrectional sync tool would do.
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2021-07-02 17:04:30	roo-	I've found quite a few bidirectional tools that do that, it's just that they are relatively old, although there's one with a release from 2017: osync ... it also supports real-time sync, although that by nature would require both parties
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2021-07-02 17:05:20	ayecee	described as "a stateful synchronizer", that makes sense
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2021-07-02 17:06:10	Nosrep	i have a vm but i don't know what to do with it, help
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2021-07-02 17:06:58	jim	Nosrep, umm, dunno :) what do you wanna do with it?
2021-07-02 17:07:07	Nosrep	idk
2021-07-02 17:07:20	Nosrep	what can i mess around with
2021-07-02 17:07:45	jim	pretty much anything... can you ssh to the vm?
2021-07-02 17:07:58	Nosrep	probably
2021-07-02 17:08:08	Nosrep	i'm using virt-manager + qemu so i don't think i need to
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2021-07-02 17:09:14	jim	true, you don't have to... you can get a shell from virtmanager...
2021-07-02 17:09:25	ayecee	this is your chance to find out what happens when you rm -rf everything while a system is running
2021-07-02 17:09:48	ayecee	wouldn't hurt to take a snapshot first though
2021-07-02 17:09:49	Sauvin	Nosrep, please use "I don't know" instead of "idk".
2021-07-02 17:09:52	jim	destructivo :P
2021-07-02 17:10:08	Nosrep	wait which channel has the abbreviations rules again
2021-07-02 17:10:10	Nosrep	this one right?
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2021-07-02 17:10:14	Nosrep	i don't know then
2021-07-02 17:10:18	jim	yep
2021-07-02 17:10:42	jim	thanks for that
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2021-07-02 17:11:05	jim	do you have a linux installed?
2021-07-02 17:11:47	Nosrep	linux mint, yes
2021-07-02 17:11:56	jim	ok
2021-07-02 17:12:10	jim	what dist do you have the vm of?
2021-07-02 17:12:44	Nosrep	what's dist
2021-07-02 17:12:47	Nosrep	distro?
2021-07-02 17:13:03	ayecee	zing
2021-07-02 17:13:06	jim	yeah :) distribuition
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2021-07-02 17:13:46	Nosrep	mint
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2021-07-02 17:13:57	jim	ok...
2021-07-02 17:14:31	jim	if you get curious about other dists, you can run them in the vm
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2021-07-02 17:21:15	Nosrep	oh wait
2021-07-02 17:21:20	Nosrep	did you mean what linux i have installed on my machine
2021-07-02 17:21:32	Nosrep	i have arch on my machine and mint on the vm
2021-07-02 17:22:12	Nosrep	(i chose mint because it had a gui and stuff preinstalled and i needed an easy vm to do a thing on but that didn't work because gpu passhrough blah blah so now i need something else to do with the vm)
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2021-07-02 17:23:42	Kyv	run all the commands
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2021-07-02 17:24:07	Kyv	or watch polka on IPTV
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2021-07-02 17:27:45	velix	Kyv: google "Polkaface".
2021-07-02 17:28:00	velix	Wired Al ;)
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2021-07-02 17:28:05	velix	Weired Al
2021-07-02 17:28:09	velix	Wiered Al
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2021-07-02 17:28:14	velix	eww... fix me
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2021-07-02 17:34:03	Kyv	I dont know if is as good as Phony Calls or The Night Santa Went Crazy.
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2021-07-02 17:35:42	Kyv	or Smells Like Nirvana
2021-07-02 17:35:43	Kyv	hehe
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2021-07-02 17:36:55	 *	Mekaneck fixes velix
2021-07-02 17:37:05	rascul	Kyv you smell like teen spirit
2021-07-02 17:37:08	velix	Mekaneck: kernel panic
2021-07-02 17:37:13	Mekaneck	Weird Al Yancovick
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2021-07-02 17:49:13	Nosrep	hrm
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2021-07-02 17:51:53	velix	Man, who of you is listening on my port 80? :D
2021-07-02 17:52:04	rascul	i haven't heard anything
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2021-07-02 17:54:12	 *	esselfe listens to rascul's port
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2021-07-02 17:55:53	akik	velix: it's the man
2021-07-02 17:56:08	velix	wo-man?
2021-07-02 17:56:10	velix	bat-man?
2021-07-02 17:56:13	velix	iron-man?
2021-07-02 17:56:43	Nosrep	The Man
2021-07-02 17:56:51	akik	velix: the big brother
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2021-07-02 17:57:15	akik	it rhymes with nasa
2021-07-02 17:57:20	velix	akik: you mean a group of freaky people from TV listen on my port 80 ?
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2021-07-02 17:58:42	akik	velix: your computer, your ports, your processes
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2021-07-02 18:00:57	velix	Ironman 2 on TV... in an electric Audi TT (eTron) with a trailer hitch ;)
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2021-07-02 18:02:36	akik	velix: do you think somebody hacked your box?
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2021-07-02 18:03:25	velix	akik: no, I forgot that nginx was running ;)
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2021-07-02 18:10:37	akik	ah ok the dementia virus
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2021-07-02 18:30:52	Lutin	Hi guys. Anyone experience with VPS providers, virtual network and vxlan with docker swarm ? I think it's blocked or so
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2021-07-02 18:31:01	mattf	is there some signal that i can send to some application  that i can send some information with?
2021-07-02 18:31:18	mattf	like sigurs1 sigurs2 are usually used for communication and things like that
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2021-07-02 18:31:36	mattf	is there a signal that i can send more than just the signal
2021-07-02 18:31:40	mattf	like an int
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2021-07-02 18:33:46	rascul	no
2021-07-02 18:34:01	mattf	sad
2021-07-02 18:34:09	rascul	but maybe you can use one of the usr signals to signify that a certain file should be read
2021-07-02 18:34:13	rascul	or something of the sort
2021-07-02 18:34:15	mattf	have to open a socket then
2021-07-02 18:34:28	mattf	well i need something for every character
2021-07-02 18:34:36	rascul	socket probably better
2021-07-02 18:34:40	mattf	yeah
2021-07-02 18:34:41	mattf	socket
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2021-07-02 18:35:07	 *	rascul socks it
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2021-07-02 18:37:16	ron1w	Hi there, i know that this is not a linux question , but somebody know a good proxy list ? i need to make test at some website, using different ip address
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2021-07-02 18:40:44	enrh	Sounds fishy
2021-07-02 18:41:12	Nosrep	does it need to be a proxy
2021-07-02 18:41:21	Nosrep	vpns are more popular so there are more free services for them (i think)
2021-07-02 18:41:27	Nosrep	not that it's necessary
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2021-07-02 18:41:55	Nosrep	ok nevermind there seems to be a fair amount of free proxies
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2021-07-02 18:42:06	michaelrose	you should NEVER trust a free vpn for one
2021-07-02 18:42:18	craigevil	protonvpn has both free and paid
2021-07-02 18:42:20	michaelrose	I would say the same thing of any such service
2021-07-02 18:42:57	jim	what reason is there to trust one that's paid?
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2021-07-02 18:43:14	michaelrose	jim: because they would like to keep having customers?
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2021-07-02 18:43:35	michaelrose	jim: in general a vpn service isn't free to run the start with so the first question would be what are they offering for free
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2021-07-02 18:44:15	michaelrose	with proton one would suggest that the free service is pretty crappy and they expect you to pay and upgrade
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2021-07-02 18:44:49	michaelrose	its low speed access via one device to vpn servers in 3 of the 55 countries they otherwise service
2021-07-02 18:45:47	michaelrose	a great point of order against using free vpns is that people use them to access insecure sites that they use the same password as they use for insecure sites
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2021-07-02 18:45:56	mattf	rascul: wait lol. i can send a int with a signal. Just use one signal as a counter and the other as a stopper for the counter
2021-07-02 18:45:59	craigevil	free isn't bad, yes a bit slow, paid is much faster and has securecore+netshield
2021-07-02 18:46:05	mattf	what a hack
2021-07-02 18:46:09	rascul	heh
2021-07-02 18:46:14	mattf	how lazy of using a socket can someone be
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2021-07-02 18:57:28	rascul	12 lazys
2021-07-02 18:57:43	rascul	+/- 93478256
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2021-07-02 19:23:25	velix	I really wonder, how many passwords in the world contains "1701" :-)
2021-07-02 19:23:30	velix	contain*
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2021-07-02 19:28:26	topoi	A friend of mine wants to migrate to a bigger hdd. Usually I had copied the old one via "dd" and adjusted the partition table thereafter. Is there something to say against this approach?
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2021-07-02 19:29:25	tomreyn	they might want / need to change the partition table type.
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2021-07-02 19:30:30	topoi	tomreyn: can you elaborate what you hint at?
2021-07-02 19:30:43	tomreyn	mbr -> gpt
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2021-07-02 19:31:34	tomreyn	see "MBRs limitations" at https://www.howtogeek.com/193669/whats-the-difference-between-gpt-and-mbr-when-partitioning-a-drive/
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2021-07-02 19:32:16	topoi	thanks, tomreyn, I'll give it a read right away.
2021-07-02 19:32:54	tomreyn	you're welcome
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2021-07-02 19:34:24	Dagmar	The good news is that so long as you make sure the _block count_ for each partition is the same or larger on the new drive, you can partition the new drive with GPT and then copy each partition with dd
2021-07-02 19:34:43	Dagmar	Resizing ext4 to grow to fill the rest of a partition is super-easy, and the same goes for LVM
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2021-07-02 19:36:50	topoi	Thanks for this tip, Dagmar; I'll might very propably try this route then.
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2021-07-02 19:38:49	topoi	Somewhat offtopic but I often use "dd" for thumbdrive and such. When I'm helping someone and using "dd" on there devices I'm nervous to the point that I sweat and want to cancel executing "dd".
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2021-07-02 19:39:30	UQUBE	why
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2021-07-02 19:40:23	trbp	UQUBE: getting nervous about malicous command queueing maybe
2021-07-02 19:40:31	firepup	there's a joke about dd where its called 'disk destroyer' UQUBE
2021-07-02 19:40:35	trbp	topoi: just recheck all parms ;)
2021-07-02 19:41:17	trbp	firepup: same as my hint to topoi
2021-07-02 19:41:20	topoi	firepup: this! I was trying to remind this joke!! :D
2021-07-02 19:41:35	trbp	and if you still do not trust your tools maybe you should switch your tools ;)
2021-07-02 19:41:43	firepup	i once wrote dd but forgot to specify the count param, so i nearly ended up with filling the remaining disk space with 0's
2021-07-02 19:42:00	topoi	trbp: I do! I have "dmesg -w" open all the time in these operations. =)
2021-07-02 19:42:01	--	hflotmnaugh is now known as mnrmnaugh
2021-07-02 19:43:20	topoi	trbp: My tools is then my senses; pretty hard to switch them, but yea.. but can lend someone else's eyes then. ;)
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2021-07-02 19:45:53	trbp	if tools are catalysator of senses is argueable maybe, but do you also stop using a screwdriver just because you could pull out someones eye with it?
2021-07-02 19:46:31	trbp	you just need to make sure you do not use it as an eyeballdistractor
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2021-07-02 19:50:02	Dagmar	firepup: Generally it'll stop reading (and therefore, writing) when it hits EOF on the partition
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2021-07-02 19:50:19	firepup	the eof would be the very end of the disk
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2021-07-02 19:53:30	Dagmar	Only when you point it at the device itself, i.e., /dev/sda
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2021-07-02 19:53:52	Dagmar	If you are reading from the partition, i.e., /dev/sda1 it will stop at the end of the partition
2021-07-02 19:54:07	velix	Some years ago, people shouted at me: don't use /dev/sda ... use by-name or by-label or by-uuid
2021-07-02 19:54:20	Dagmar	That was for something else entirely, probably mounting
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2021-07-02 19:54:53	velix	I'm never helpful :(
2021-07-02 19:55:12	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-02 19:56:06	Dagmar	Well, mouting by UUID _is_ an improvement that provides several excellent benefits
2021-07-02 19:56:53	Sauvin	Including being able to keep external drives tied to particular mountpoints!
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2021-07-02 19:57:58	trbp	downside is, if you dd a whole disk you get the same uuids and that might be getting interesting effects ;)
2021-07-02 19:58:33	topoi	trbp: are there many places apart from fstab?
2021-07-02 19:59:05	trbp	topoi: excuse me? with the effects?
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2021-07-02 19:59:31	trbp	oh mixed os installations, windows can get really picky ;)
2021-07-02 19:59:32	topoi	ehm.., wait, I got your argument wrong.
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2021-07-02 20:03:30	Dagmar	Well, if you copy partitions or disks with dd you're going to be copying the UUIDs, but at least the UUIDs can be changed
2021-07-02 20:03:46	Dagmar	THe real evil is when you have LVM involved and let it see two devices with the same pv/vg ids
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2021-07-02 20:04:10	firepup	what happens? does it crash?
2021-07-02 20:04:32	Dagmar	It can try and use both
2021-07-02 20:04:38	Dagmar	This does not go well
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2021-07-02 20:04:41	godSend23	hey all
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2021-07-02 20:05:04	<--	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2021-07-02 20:08:07	gnux	hi godSend23
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2021-07-02 20:08:28	godSend23	hi gnux
2021-07-02 20:08:33	godSend23	wha'ts happening
2021-07-02 20:08:47	gnux	looking at books
2021-07-02 20:08:54	gnux	you
2021-07-02 20:09:03	<--	ax562 (~ax562@user/ax562) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-02 20:09:11	godSend23	ebooks?
2021-07-02 20:09:17	godSend23	i'm looking for defCon channels
2021-07-02 20:09:30	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-02 20:10:39	gnux	a ahcking channel
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2021-07-02 20:11:41	godSend23	yes
2021-07-02 20:11:45	godSend23	do those exist?
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2021-07-02 20:13:39	Kyv	it is an annual conference in the city of bumping uglies
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2021-07-02 20:14:50	gnux	yeah it is a bit offensive why they hack
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2021-07-02 20:15:24	godSend23	i meant channelwise
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2021-07-02 20:15:32	Kyv	customarily attendees spend the entire time in their rooms on ketamine
2021-07-02 20:15:37	Kyv	and just catch the talks on youtube
2021-07-02 20:15:48	godSend23	gotta be of use to them
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2021-07-02 20:16:18	godSend23	i mean open source and defCon is bound to overlap
2021-07-02 20:16:26	blackgatonegro	Hey, happy friday guys!
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2021-07-02 20:16:39	Kyv	godSend23: have you gone to their website?
2021-07-02 20:16:47	Kyv	theyve got a bunch of stuff available for torrenting or whatever.
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2021-07-02 20:17:10	godSend23	i don''t know kyv
2021-07-02 20:17:13	Kyv	probably a link to their matrix server, I'd guess.
2021-07-02 20:17:13	godSend23	pm me?
2021-07-02 20:17:26	Dagmar	Try #hackallthethings
2021-07-02 20:17:29	blackgatonegro	So good thing I am not using my printer on Windows anymore.
2021-07-02 20:17:34	Dagmar	It's named something liket hat
2021-07-02 20:17:38	godSend23	ok Dagmar
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2021-07-02 20:18:01	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: It's been upgraded to *all* versions of WIndows.  *giggle*
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2021-07-02 20:18:23	blackgatonegro	Dagmar yeah a bug upgrade
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2021-07-02 20:18:32	Dagmar	I just told my boss we can't roll out a bunch of pis running CUPS as a replacement because 1) no way to get lots of pis and 2) I don't own a gun so I'll have nothing to eat
2021-07-02 20:19:01	ircuser33194811	so there's this burger house
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2021-07-02 20:19:04	godSend23	Kyv, can u send me the link?
2021-07-02 20:19:07	blackgatonegro	You can use the Android printer bypass but... ugh
2021-07-02 20:19:11	ircuser33194811	whenever i go there and eat one of their burgers i get the runs.
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2021-07-02 20:19:29	ircuser33194811	why is it? i mean they have hundreds of customers each day.
2021-07-02 20:19:32	blackgatonegro	Also Bluetooth and that's... so freaking unsafe.
2021-07-02 20:19:44	Kyv	godSend23: it's defcon.org
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2021-07-02 20:19:55	ircuser33194811	oops. wrong channe..
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2021-07-02 20:20:01	godSend23	oh ok
2021-07-02 20:20:02	firepup	np
2021-07-02 20:20:05	firepup	but please check twice
2021-07-02 20:20:37	blackgatonegro	Anyway remote desktop and printer services stay disabled as that win machine is just for games anyway.
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2021-07-02 20:23:11	Kyv	simple x mobile exist -- https://sr.ht/mil/Sxmo/
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2021-07-02 20:23:19	Kyv	maybe pinephone not such a bad idea someday
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2021-07-02 20:24:38	blackgatonegro	I hate being so freaking right when it comes to Internet of Things devices.
2021-07-02 20:25:14	--	vwork_ is now known as vwork
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2021-07-02 20:25:48	blackgatonegro	Spyware, unsafe, remote wipes... they only need to steal your gun and iron your dog.
2021-07-02 20:26:02	Kyv	anyone who can rub rocks together knows IoT is a hell.
2021-07-02 20:26:44	blackgatonegro	Honesty I wouldn't take even half that crap if it was my own fresh and blood doing this evil and yet people still buy the darn things.
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2021-07-02 20:27:09	godSend23	Kyv, wow the resources are substantial
2021-07-02 20:27:28	godSend23	prob has IOT for sure
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2021-07-02 20:28:46	blackgatonegro	Never been happiest of still using dumb TVs, Dumb heaters and dumb everything but Smartphones and computers that I do have more control over that people do on the IoT stuff.
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2021-07-02 20:32:54	blackgatonegro	Wow Skyward Sword HD is less annoying that the non HD version, still not buying a toy just to gottagofast.
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2021-07-02 20:44:48	vwork	The only 3d zelda game I've been able to really enjoy is the remake of Link's Awakening
2021-07-02 20:45:30	<--	fpombal (~fpombal@2001:818:d95d:a500:c707:f4e5:d1f1:783b) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-02 20:46:12	blackgatonegro	The first N64 Zelda game is okay for its time
2021-07-02 20:46:28	<--	michaelrose (~michael@204.152.216.107) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-02 20:46:29	vwork	I never had an n64 :/
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2021-07-02 20:47:08	vwork	I had an nes, then then a gamecube. Everything in between was non-nintendo
2021-07-02 20:47:15	vwork	-then
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2021-07-02 20:47:44	vwork	I did like the gamecube quite a bit, despite the lack of games
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2021-07-02 20:48:08	vwork	Which does make the title somewhat ironic
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2021-07-02 20:48:48	blackgatonegro	I had a Master System, a Gameboy and then a Playstation. Later on I bought a lot of videogame consoles, never bothered to get a Super Nintendo cause... well... dunno.
2021-07-02 20:49:12	blackgatonegro	Basically I like the Sega Genesis more.
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2021-07-02 20:51:19	vwork	I had a genesis because that's what my parents bought. I rarely felt like I was missing anything on the snes though I probably would have enjoyed playing Chrono Trigger before adulthood though.
2021-07-02 20:51:27	vwork	God I can't type tonight
2021-07-02 20:51:30	MuchoLoco	https://imgur.com/a/uYWF3O6
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2021-07-02 20:51:56	Swift110-mobile	Oh wow blackgatonegro I got an snes in 1992 later got a Sega Genesis and a Nintendo then later got an Nintendo 64 and then a Playstation 2
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2021-07-02 20:52:21	blackgatonegro	The Phantasy Star games were good RPGs
2021-07-02 20:52:42	blackgatonegro	Didn't play Chronno in a console until the Playstation
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2021-07-02 20:52:52	Swift110-mobile	Actually I did have a Sega CD at one point as well but I don't know what happened to it and I forgot what I did with the Sega Genesis and Nintendo as well
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2021-07-02 20:53:10	Swift110-mobile	Member Earthworm Jim?
2021-07-02 20:53:20	blackgatonegro	You wouldn't have got Chronno in tne Snes anyway, limited amount of carts.
2021-07-02 20:53:26	Swift110-mobile	oh
2021-07-02 20:53:30	<--	Seirdy (~Seirdy@sourcehut/user/seirdy) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-02 20:53:31	Swift110-mobile	I never played that game
2021-07-02 20:53:49	blackgatonegro	Earth Worm Jim, definitely better on the Sega Genesis, EXTRA LEVEL!
2021-07-02 20:54:01	Swift110-mobile	I don't remember ever playing the N64 but its here
2021-07-02 20:54:32	Swift110-mobile	Haven't played the SNES since the mid 2000's and the PS2 in a few years
2021-07-02 20:55:00	blackgatonegro	I got a Nintendo 64 when it was cheap, got a lot of games for it.
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2021-07-02 20:55:24	blackgatonegro	Been playing my hacked Wii lately.
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2021-07-02 20:56:16	blackgatonegro	I got a Sega CD and a 32x but... prefer to play on my PC or the PS2 ports.
2021-07-02 20:56:44	blackgatonegro	Should really get the Sonic CD remake on Steam... is really good.
2021-07-02 20:57:14	raccoon_dog	If you mean the Christian Whitehead remake, yes. It's good.
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2021-07-02 20:57:30	Swift110-mobile	oh wow
2021-07-02 20:57:42	Swift110-mobile	what ya do to the wii blackgatonegro ? you put linux on it?
2021-07-02 20:57:50	blackgatonegro	Newest stuff I got is a Switch. Also got a PS3 and a Vita. Well two PS3s... one is hacked the other is not.
2021-07-02 20:58:03	blackgatonegro	Nah the Wii is for gaming.
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2021-07-02 20:58:21	Swift110-mobile	Sonic CD remake? Oh, my goodness I have to check that out as that soundtrack was amazing
2021-07-02 20:58:23	Swift110-mobile	!
2021-07-02 20:58:31	blackgatonegro	I don't try to run Linux in consoles since the Dreamcast.
2021-07-02 20:58:36	Swift110-mobile	I was considering getting a Switch
2021-07-02 20:58:37	curdlesnoot	Swift110-mobile: install custom IOS and connect a HDD, like a chad.
2021-07-02 20:58:54	Swift110-mobile	curdlesnoot: wym?
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2021-07-02 20:59:46	blackgatonegro	https://store.steampowered.com/app/200940/Sonic_CD/
2021-07-02 20:59:47	curdlesnoot	Swift110-mobile: the IOS files are blobs that can be loaded into Starlet, the ARM-based co-processor. I/O can be directed to files residing on USB mass storage, rather than the optical drive, with no copyright protection. that sort of thing.
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2021-07-02 21:00:09	blackgatonegro	Too bad the Sonic 1 and 2 remakes aren't on consoles.
2021-07-02 21:00:44	curdlesnoot	Swift110-mobile: it's good because, even if you like playing originals, the optical drive doesn't last forever. mine was on its way out before I decided to hack mine.
2021-07-02 21:00:52	curdlesnoot	and it's kind of noisy.
2021-07-02 21:01:00	Swift110-mobile	I want a nice machine to play Cities Skylines
2021-07-02 21:01:22	blackgatonegro	The Wii can be hacked to run everything from the sd card and the usb ports.
2021-07-02 21:01:47	Swift110-mobile	There is a sonic collection for the playstation 2 for sure
2021-07-02 21:01:55	Swift110-mobile	nice
2021-07-02 21:01:56	blackgatonegro	Cities Skylines is old, any modern PC should do.
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2021-07-02 21:02:36	blackgatonegro	Sonic collection is better on the Gamecube, as the Gamecube has better hardware so it stutters a lot less.
2021-07-02 21:02:36	Swift110-mobile	blackgatonegro: my pc is from 2012 i5 2320 with 8 gb ram and gt 610 gpu. It will play fine on there but I want to do better
2021-07-02 21:02:48	blackgatonegro	Add more Ram
2021-07-02 21:02:48	Swift110-mobile	oh I didn't know that
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2021-07-02 21:03:07	blackgatonegro	You can double the Ram on your PC and Skylines will fly
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2021-07-02 21:03:30	Swift110-mobile	Sadly I can only go to 16 due to the crappy oem mbo
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2021-07-02 21:03:53	blackgatonegro	16 gb of ram is enough to run Skylines very well
2021-07-02 21:03:56	Swift110-mobile	So you don't think that old cpu will be a bottleneck for the game
2021-07-02 21:04:37	Swift110-mobile	Ok cool, I keep seeing people do really cool things on reddit with Skylines and I want to get into it
2021-07-02 21:05:04	blackgatonegro	Those are most likely mods
2021-07-02 21:05:56	blackgatonegro	Alternatively upgrade the ram and video card, a card old enough to work on your PC won't be overpriced, miners don't go for hardware so old.
2021-07-02 21:06:16	blackgatonegro	The problem would be getting one that's on good health.
2021-07-02 21:07:31	<--	Skyz (~Skyz@user/skyz) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-02 21:07:34	blackgatonegro	Now if you want to run mods and do crazy stuff...yeah you need a newer PC.
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2021-07-02 21:10:40	AndroidDAW	https://github.com/mgood7123/prebuilder  this may be usefull for you all :)
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2021-07-02 21:11:34	akik	AndroidDAW: doubt it
2021-07-02 21:11:50	AndroidDAW	akik: lol
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2021-07-02 21:12:24	AndroidDAW	this is my version of automated pre-built library management, where the latest version of the library, for your target OS, built directly from the latest source, will always exist if it can be successfully built
2021-07-02 21:12:47	akik	AndroidDAW: you just wrote 100% more info on that one message than in your repo
2021-07-02 21:12:58	AndroidDAW	haha
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2021-07-02 21:13:17	akik	oh actually 0+100% of 0 is still 0
2021-07-02 21:13:30	AndroidDAW	XD
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2021-07-02 21:15:23	vwork	I ran skylines quite happily on an old i5, 8G, and whatever the i5 had for integrated graphics. It didn't look amazing, but the simulation ran fine
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2021-07-02 21:20:19	vwork	The most amusing thing was an apparently lack of support for whatever the water shader is so it had the moving water-y geometry but looked more like jello
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2021-07-02 21:22:03	UQUBE	drink
2021-07-02 21:22:04	UQUBE	piss
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2021-07-02 21:26:57	blackgatonegro	AndroidDAW readme files, do them.
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2021-07-02 21:27:24	AndroidDAW	i will later
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2021-07-02 21:27:49	--	ossifrage_ is now known as ossifrage
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2021-07-02 21:28:32	AndroidDAW	tho the yaml is reasonably documented so have a look at that
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2021-07-02 21:31:30	AndroidDAW	basically you push what you want to build to it, it builds it for you, it spits the output into dedicated repos
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2021-07-02 21:36:24	AndroidDAW	eg https://github.com/mgood7123/prebuilder-ubuntu-latest    https://github.com/mgood7123/prebuilder-macOS-latest    https://github.com/mgood7123/prebuilder-windows-latest
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2021-07-02 21:45:37	twainwek	im installing kde on a new machine, and i notice that by default icewm is being installed. is that needed? or can i uninstall it
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2021-07-02 21:46:28	Kaldius	wtf are this?
2021-07-02 21:46:29	Kaldius	kernel: DMAR: [Firmware Bug]: No firmware reserved region can cover this RMRR [0x000000008e000000-0x00000000ae7fffff], contact BIOS vendor for fixes
2021-07-02 21:46:40	jim	I thought kde uses kwin
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2021-07-02 21:46:52	dsf777b	YOUR+BENIS,' 'YOU  HAVE TO SLICE IT,AWAY'
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2021-07-02 21:58:27	rascul	twainwek you can uninstall it if you don't use it
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2021-07-02 22:00:02	 *	[[R]] uninstalls rascul 
2021-07-02 22:00:12	 *	rascul purges [[R]]
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2021-07-02 22:01:33	Topco	RIP
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2021-07-02 22:04:01	 *	[[R]] binges rascul 
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2021-07-02 22:05:47	rascul	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqpgMBNdZhU
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2021-07-02 22:06:45	[[R]]	lol
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2021-07-02 22:18:03	edlou	what text editor do you use
2021-07-02 22:18:09	edlou	term / gui
2021-07-02 22:18:14	c705	vim
2021-07-02 22:18:18	c705	obviously
2021-07-02 22:18:26	edlou	oh damn he dropped an obviously on it ;(
2021-07-02 22:18:30	edlou	#nanogangpopout
2021-07-02 22:18:30	e36freak	ed
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2021-07-02 22:19:45	Topco	vim is could but have you tried vi
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2021-07-02 22:21:00	Retro64XYZ	#vimusersrulenanousersdrool
2021-07-02 22:21:05	[[R]]	rofl
2021-07-02 22:21:14	c705	why use vi when you can use vim
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2021-07-02 22:21:39	iflema	beeps and capitol leters
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2021-07-02 22:21:49	c705	configuration
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2021-07-02 22:24:12	rascul	all you really need is cat, head, tail, sed, awk, and shell redirection
2021-07-02 22:24:23	rascul	oh, also pipes
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2021-07-02 22:24:35	e36freak	you can replace all of that with awk
2021-07-02 22:24:35	 *	[[R]] redirects rascul to a pipe
2021-07-02 22:24:56	 *	rascul replaces e36freak with the redirected pipe
2021-07-02 22:25:02	[[R]]	e36freak: or ca nyou replace awk with all that?
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2021-07-02 22:25:17	rascul	perl is handy also, plus cut
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2021-07-02 22:25:30	e36freak	cut is lame. awk is standard though, perl isn't guaranteed to be there
2021-07-02 22:25:37	vwork	cut is underrated
2021-07-02 22:25:44	e36freak	laaame
2021-07-02 22:25:49	rascul	what good are text editors really when unix has all the tools already?
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2021-07-02 22:26:01	rascul	*nix or whatever
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2021-07-02 22:26:57	vwork	What good is text when it all ends up as electrons anyway. Just work on those.
2021-07-02 22:27:22	rascul	what good is poison sumac
2021-07-02 22:27:39	rascul	if the world really needs a plant eradicated it should be poison sumac
2021-07-02 22:28:06	vwork	Good for making people itchy
2021-07-02 22:28:40	rascul	very good
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2021-07-02 22:28:52	vwork	It's a legitimate need sometimes
2021-07-02 22:29:20	spyroboy	22:21:00   Retro64XYZ >> #vimusersrulenanousersdrool
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2021-07-02 22:29:25	spyroboy	https://twitter.com/astraleureka/status/1036659763193425921
2021-07-02 22:30:10	 *	rascul hits the bong
2021-07-02 22:31:01	vwork	https://preview.redd.it/798myjzkwmjz.jpg?auto=webp&s=bcdc89b80211fe50a985b91ee7ed68ce4781b182
2021-07-02 22:31:44	-->	bodhi (~bodhi@c-73-93-87-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-02 22:33:47	rascul	atom is a funny story
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2021-07-02 22:34:45	rascul	github made it, for editing text and all, but they made electron for it, and now everybody uses electron for everything and it's horrible and microsoft uses electron to make vs code and anybody who uses an electron editor probably uses vs code and not atom and now microsoft owns them both anyway
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2021-07-02 22:43:22	jim	atom isn't too bad
2021-07-02 22:43:39	vwork	Github, electron, vscode, microsoft. Surely all those things together would be amazing.
2021-07-02 22:44:22	twainwek	that's 3 yucks in one sentence
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2021-07-02 22:44:48	vwork	Speaking of which, the github copilot thing has been amusing to watch
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2021-07-02 22:45:57	twainwek	i'm amazed that github hasn't turned into absolute garbage what, 2 years after ms bought it?
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2021-07-02 22:48:47	vwork	Judging by the output of copilot it's pretty garbage-y. I don't know if they limited age of code for the training
2021-07-02 22:49:21	rascul	i don't want microsoft to be my copilot
2021-07-02 22:49:32	onelegend	micro$oft
2021-07-02 22:49:41	onelegend	what a bullshit company
2021-07-02 22:50:05	onelegend	the only good things they made were, vscode, surface devices, and microsoft office
2021-07-02 22:50:11	onelegend	all the rest are garbage
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2021-07-02 22:50:36	vwork	"Good things"
2021-07-02 22:50:58	jim	and there's libreoffice, not made by m$ as far as I know, is free and open source
2021-07-02 22:51:14	rascul	libreoffice is derived from sun's openoffice
2021-07-02 22:51:36	rascul	staroffice before that
2021-07-02 22:51:40	<--	Kaldius (~Kaldius@191.96.100.25) has quit
2021-07-02 22:51:45	vwork	Libre has become pretty good in recent years
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2021-07-02 22:52:09	vwork	I haven't had any problems sharing docs with msoffice users for a while
2021-07-02 22:52:20	rascul	i don't use it enough to know if it's any good but it suits my purposes the two times a year i use it
2021-07-02 22:52:21	onelegend	Libreoffice is really good
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2021-07-02 22:52:48	onelegend	and the openoffice team is smart as hell.
2021-07-02 22:52:56	onelegend	the reverse engineered docx format
2021-07-02 22:52:59	onelegend	*they
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2021-07-02 22:53:41	onelegend	the bottom line in the future is that proprietary OS's will not be used as much
2021-07-02 22:53:47	onelegend	imagine making a proprietary OS
2021-07-02 22:53:54	onelegend	that's like making a proprietary programming language
2021-07-02 22:54:01	onelegend	imagine if C was proprietary
2021-07-02 22:54:01	twainwek	i've used ms office and i can assure you it's garbage
2021-07-02 22:54:07	firepup	windoze does that and its still popular lol
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2021-07-02 22:54:19	vwork	That's still definitely a thing in certain fields. Proprietary programming languages
2021-07-02 22:54:38	onelegend	proprietary programming languages are more often than not built with open source programming languages
2021-07-02 22:54:43	jim	you can't copyright a language though
2021-07-02 22:55:02	firepup	you were the one who made the programming language, so i guess you could copyright it?...
2021-07-02 22:55:10	twainwek	is english copyrighted?
2021-07-02 22:55:25	firepup	english was derived by multiple people
2021-07-02 22:55:34	onelegend	twainwek: oh yeah, the recent version of MS office are complete trash
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2021-07-02 22:56:02	vwork	My wife had to deal with one in her last job. No documentation, the only way you could (officially) learn about it was by attending the vendor's classes. If you had a question, had to pay for vendor support. And every release (about every year) would radically change the fundamental structure of the language so all code had to be rewritten and everybody had to attend new classes.
2021-07-02 22:56:09	JohnDoe2	onelegend (in)complete trash? 😆
2021-07-02 22:56:17	onelegend	ha yes
2021-07-02 22:56:49	vwork	And it's an extremely widely used "solution" in its particular field. Because that field is full of idiots, I guess.
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2021-07-02 22:58:45	twainwek	what is extremely widely used
2021-07-02 22:58:57	vwork	The aformentioned proprietary language
2021-07-02 22:59:05	firepup	which is?
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2021-07-02 22:59:15	twainwek	which language
2021-07-02 22:59:18	vwork	"Colleague"
2021-07-02 22:59:31	twainwek	that's the name of a lanauage?
2021-07-02 22:59:34	firepup	what field is it for?
2021-07-02 22:59:44	vwork	The name of the whole product, which includes the language
2021-07-02 22:59:46	twainwek	what a dumb name
2021-07-02 23:00:02	vwork	It's an academic institution management software "package"
2021-07-02 23:00:09	vwork	Mostly used by community colleges, etc.
2021-07-02 23:00:39	twainwek	sounds nasty
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2021-07-02 23:00:43	Sauvin	This would explain much :\
2021-07-02 23:00:46	vwork	Extremely
2021-07-02 23:01:02	twainwek	community colleges are better than most colleges for learning
2021-07-02 23:01:16	twainwek	because my goodness colleges are a mess
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2021-07-02 23:02:32	vwork	Depends on the college. Some of them are little more than fronts for extracting government-backed loans from bewildered freshmen
2021-07-02 23:03:03	twainwek	some of them?
2021-07-02 23:03:12	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:e88:5359::688b:d309) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-02 23:03:17	vwork	Community colleges, specifically
2021-07-02 23:03:25	vwork	They have the highest dropout rate by a huge margin
2021-07-02 23:03:52	twainwek	if they have a large dropout rate it's because people who go there don't like to commit
2021-07-02 23:04:41	twainwek	or they're working fulltime
2021-07-02 23:04:53	vwork	Well yeah, but some of them actively attract people they expect to drop out. Because they get paid regardless, and if the student stops showing up they don't have to expend anything "teaching" them
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2021-07-02 23:05:00	twainwek	where as universities are like extention of highschool these days
2021-07-02 23:05:12	 *	rascul was high at school
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2021-07-02 23:07:07	rascul	i learned in high school that the trick to getting high during school was to go outside in the parking lot and sit in between parked cars because when the teachers walked the parking lot they never looked in between the cars so i would hit the bowl and exhale underneath the car so it would go out the other side and mostly disperse before anyone
2021-07-02 23:07:07	rascul	could see it
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2021-07-02 23:07:39	twainwek	lol
2021-07-02 23:07:56	rascul	worked for cigarettes too
2021-07-02 23:07:57	twainwek	stoners don't realize that you can smell the weed for a mile away
2021-07-02 23:08:05	twainwek	from*
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2021-07-02 23:08:10	rascul	the teachers literally walked right by us
2021-07-02 23:08:18	rascul	several times a day
2021-07-02 23:08:21	twainwek	they just didn't care to bust you
2021-07-02 23:08:28	twainwek	they definitely smelled it
2021-07-02 23:08:38	 *	rascul shrugs
2021-07-02 23:08:47	rascul	did it every day for years
2021-07-02 23:09:06	rascul	only got busted when i was leaving during class
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2021-07-02 23:09:48	rascul	teacher told me go to principal office and i just left instead and i hit the bowl when i got to the car and they tried to get me then but i was in my car so i just drove off
2021-07-02 23:10:13	twainwek	just the other day im walking by myself and i start to notice a strong smell of weed. which is odd because no one is around me and there are no windows or buildings around either. Just a dude about about half a mile away... as we get close and closer the smell of weed gets stronger and stronger
2021-07-02 23:10:22	twainwek	and he wasn't even smoking. he was just walking by
2021-07-02 23:10:28	rascul	i probably always smell like weed
2021-07-02 23:10:39	twainwek	probably
2021-07-02 23:10:41	rascul	i pretty much always smoke it
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2021-07-02 23:11:16	twainwek	ya i can guarnatee you that others can smell the weed on you from at least 0.25 miles away
2021-07-02 23:11:25	rascul	probably
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2021-07-02 23:11:40	rascul	they probably saw me smoke it also
2021-07-02 23:11:41	twainwek	like i said, ive noticed that stoners don't realize just how strong their weed smell is
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2021-07-02 23:12:04	rascul	it's not that i don't realize it, it's that i don't care and make no attempt to hide it or cover it up
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2021-07-02 23:12:35	rascul	i know when i smoke in my car with the windows up i'm going to reek for an hour or two at least
2021-07-02 23:12:46	twainwek	that's the thing. i don't think you can realistically realize how strong the smell is
2021-07-02 23:13:03	Kyv	OKAY
2021-07-02 23:13:09	twainwek	definitely
2021-07-02 23:13:20	rascul	if i take a hit or two every couple hours outside on a windy day you might never know
2021-07-02 23:13:31	rascul	except my breath
2021-07-02 23:13:33	twainwek	i'd know
2021-07-02 23:13:35	twainwek	trust me
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2021-07-02 23:15:31	rascul	i don't trust you
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2021-07-02 23:15:42	rascul	someone told me to trust nobody
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2021-07-02 23:15:49	twainwek	trust me i'm a doctor
2021-07-02 23:15:50	Kyv	That was me.
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2021-07-02 23:15:57	twainwek	well im not a doctor, but i have a PHD
2021-07-02 23:15:58	ayecee	and you trust that guy?
2021-07-02 23:15:58	rascul	i don't remember who it was but i don't trust them
2021-07-02 23:16:02	twainwek	a Pretty Huge ...
2021-07-02 23:16:02	Gustavo6046	are less people using linux than other OSes proportionately than they were a few years ago?
2021-07-02 23:16:12	Gustavo6046	pretty huge doctorate!
2021-07-02 23:16:17	rascul	Gustavo6046 does android count as linux?
2021-07-02 23:16:26	Gustavo6046	yes but actually no
2021-07-02 23:16:36	rascul	then the answer is yes but actually no
2021-07-02 23:16:36	Gustavo6046	i mean among desktop OSes, sorry
2021-07-02 23:16:40	rascul	oh
2021-07-02 23:16:52	rascul	i think desktop usage in general has been declining
2021-07-02 23:17:02	rascul	outside of business type stuff
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2021-07-02 23:17:07	Gustavo6046	" If touchscreen was dick nobody would touch it blushblushmoji "
2021-07-02 23:17:09	twainwek	it's true. i only use my phone even when im coding
2021-07-02 23:17:10	Gustavo6046	ah okay
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2021-07-02 23:17:32	twainwek	i have a mini-usb->usc adaptor and i just hook up my keyboard to my phone and go at it
2021-07-02 23:17:38	twainwek	usb*
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2021-07-02 23:18:11	ayecee	i don't want to believe you but i do
2021-07-02 23:18:32	rascul	i don't want to code on my phone but from time to time i wouldn't mind running an android app on my linux desktop but i dunno if that's a thing
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2021-07-02 23:23:33	onelegend	boy oh boy
2021-07-02 23:23:49	onelegend	do I hate typing on small screens
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2021-07-02 23:23:54	rascul	do you?
2021-07-02 23:23:58	rascul	i don't know
2021-07-02 23:24:01	ayecee	i think yes
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2021-07-02 23:24:25	twainwek	do you guys think that brazil can win this year's euro 2020
2021-07-02 23:24:42	rascul	i think brazil may or may not win this year's euro 2020
2021-07-02 23:24:51	rascul	i'm willing to bet $5 on that
2021-07-02 23:25:03	twainwek	is that USD or CAD
2021-07-02 23:25:13	rascul	i don't really care
2021-07-02 23:25:16	rascul	either is fine
2021-07-02 23:25:24	twainwek	what kind of a bet is that
2021-07-02 23:25:37	ayecee	i think it's a sports bet but i'm not actually sure
2021-07-02 23:25:43	talismanick	How do I match files by extension in a folder and remove the extension in the loop variable?
2021-07-02 23:25:50	twainwek	in that case i'm willing to bet 38217926273 on it
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2021-07-02 23:25:57	Kyv	sure, I'll bet five quid
2021-07-02 23:26:02	Kyv	a  fiver
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2021-07-02 23:26:12	twainwek	talismanick: bash?
2021-07-02 23:26:19	talismanick	for i in *.webp; do dwebp $i -o $i".png"; done
2021-07-02 23:26:21	ayecee	talismanick: break the problem into smaller steps
2021-07-02 23:26:27	talismanick	would yield .webp.png for all
2021-07-02 23:26:32	talismanick	twainwek: yes
2021-07-02 23:26:38	rascul	what is dwebp ?
2021-07-02 23:26:51	talismanick	rascul: converts a webp image into a png
2021-07-02 23:26:54	twainwek	it's that kid from malcolm in the middle
2021-07-02 23:27:04	talismanick	(I evidently can't open webp files in Emacs)
2021-07-02 23:27:06	rascul	is it this one?  https://developers.google.com/speed/webp/docs/dwebp
2021-07-02 23:27:30	ayecee	talismanick: check the bash manpage in the Parameter Expansion section, especially the Remove Matching Suffix part
2021-07-02 23:27:36	rascul	you should quote $i though
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2021-07-02 23:27:52	dag	considering getting a pine phone because i like FOSS so much. anyone got experience with it? i would love to e.g. ssh into my phone and run an http daemon etc.
2021-07-02 23:28:06	talismanick	rascul: I would if I were writing a full script, if only to stop Shellcheck from complaining
2021-07-02 23:28:35	rascul	because if one of the matches has spaces then the command will be "webp file with spaces -o file with spaces.png"
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2021-07-02 23:28:48	rascul	or something similar to that which probably won't work
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2021-07-02 23:29:25	talismanick	I'm pretty sure none of the files have spaces (I name them by hand when I download them), so I'm not too worried, but I will quote it
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2021-07-02 23:30:00	rascul	spaces are just the easy example, there's a bunch of characters that can mess things up
2021-07-02 23:30:21	rascul	file names are a lot harder than some people think
2021-07-02 23:30:22	talismanick	It's only alphanumerics and dashes, but ok
2021-07-02 23:30:36	ayecee	if you keep letting rascul sidetrack you it's going to take twice as long to figure out
2021-07-02 23:30:44	rascul	what am i figuring out?
2021-07-02 23:30:50	ayecee	nothing
2021-07-02 23:30:56	rascul	typical
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2021-07-02 23:31:10	talismanick	ayecee: Your advice sounds like what I need to look up anyways, so thanks
2021-07-02 23:31:32	rascul	the bash expansions are pretty nice though
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2021-07-02 23:35:45	talismanick	hooray, it works
2021-07-02 23:35:50	talismanick	thanks ayecee
2021-07-02 23:36:07	talismanick	and thanks rascul, your advice was applied :)
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2021-07-02 23:48:21	phoenix_temp	hello
2021-07-02 23:48:50	phoenix_temp	it is not showing autojoin option here
2021-07-02 23:48:53	phoenix_temp	how to do it
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2021-07-02 23:49:56	jim	phoenix_temp, do you mean you want to set autojoin on #linux?
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2021-07-02 23:51:10	 *	Sauvin looks
2021-07-02 23:52:13	Sauvin	phoenix_temp, there's no channel-specific auto-rejoin, but there *is* a global one. /set irc_auto_rejoin on
2021-07-02 23:53:11	-->	anginapectoris3 (~anginapec@user/anginapectoris) has joined #linux
2021-07-02 23:53:19	Sauvin	Unless I'm misreading. I believe auto_reconnect_rejoin should already be on.
2021-07-02 23:53:41	phoenix_temp	Sauvin:yes
2021-07-02 23:53:47	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: hey
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2021-07-02 23:54:04	Sauvin	If you want to automatically join a specific channel when you connect, right-click on the channel. You'll be greeted with a small pop-up dialog.
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2021-07-02 23:54:28	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: i want a wifi driver for my usb 2.0 adapter, it had realtek driver in windows
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2021-07-02 23:54:37	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: thats the real issue
2021-07-02 23:54:45	Sauvin	Oh.
2021-07-02 23:55:13	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: any help you can give
2021-07-02 23:55:22	Sauvin	I have no experience with wifi dongles. :(
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2021-07-02 23:55:29	[[R]]	oooo, my ding ding dongle
2021-07-02 23:55:46	Sauvin	Oh, look, [R] is playing with his ding-a-ling-a-ling again.
2021-07-02 23:55:51	phoenix_temp	[[R]]: you can help?
2021-07-02 23:56:03	[[R]]	🎶 my... ding a ling... my ding a ling... i want you to play with my... ding a ling
2021-07-02 23:56:08	[[R]]	we had that on record when i was a kid
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2021-07-02 23:56:22	jim	I remember that song
2021-07-02 23:56:31	phoenix_temp	[[R]]: seriously, i really want a driver for my adapter
2021-07-02 23:56:39	[[R]]	phoenix_temp: and i really want a million dollars
2021-07-02 23:57:02	<--	anginapectoris (~anginapec@user/anginapectoris) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-02 23:57:02	phoenix_temp	[[R]]: can you please help
2021-07-02 23:57:02	--	anginapectoris3 is now known as anginapectoris
2021-07-02 23:57:03	Sauvin	phoenix_temp, what distro are you using?
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2021-07-02 23:57:47	jim	phoenix_temp, what link do you get for: sudo dmesg | grep fail | nc termbin.com 9999
2021-07-02 23:58:41	phoenix_temp	https://termbin.com/ktcx  jim
2021-07-02 23:58:48	jim	(which would work if you have nc (in pkg netcat) installed. also, Sauvin's question too
2021-07-02 23:59:12	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: linux mint 19.3 tricia
2021-07-02 23:59:31	jim	ok, no firmware load failures (not recently anyway)
2021-07-02 23:59:49	Sauvin	Is the wifi dongle plugged in ?
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2021-07-03 00:00:13	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: it is plugged in
2021-07-03 00:00:36	Sauvin	Can you identify the dongle from the output of lsusb?
2021-07-03 00:00:44	<--	misspwn (~misspwn@user/misspwn) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-03 00:00:47	phoenix_temp	https://www.amazon.in/Enter-150N-Mbps-Wirelss-Adapter/dp/B01DUFA29A/ref=pd_lpo_23_t_0/257-5236290-8538445?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01DUFA29A&pd_rd_r=4fd8d3f8-a878-49dd-91ff-48affb2cdb18&pd_rd_w=4ABsW&pd_rd_wg=bKMbR&pf_rd_p=a0cebedc-0532-4f0a-8ab7-168f9ecbd08f&pf_rd_r=H9KNT9QP3QSEWF25GC41&psc=1&refRID=H9KNT9QP3QSEWF25GC41
2021-07-03 00:00:53	jushur	phoenix_temp: lsusb
2021-07-03 00:00:55	phoenix_temp	i use this one
2021-07-03 00:01:06	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: i can identify
2021-07-03 00:01:13	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: i will try
2021-07-03 00:01:36	jim	little... expensive...
2021-07-03 00:01:43	Sauvin	Yeah.... I mean.... WOW.
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2021-07-03 00:02:00	phoenix_temp	" Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0bda:f179 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. " this is
2021-07-03 00:02:10	phoenix_temp	the output of lsusb
2021-07-03 00:02:14	phoenix_temp	i identified it
2021-07-03 00:02:32	[[R]]	jim: tahts not dollars
2021-07-03 00:02:35	Sauvin	Oh, wait, you know what? Those aren't $USD. I don't know what currency that symbol represents.
2021-07-03 00:02:48	phoenix_temp	that is rupees
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2021-07-03 00:02:53	[[R]]	like in zelda?
2021-07-03 00:03:08	phoenix_temp	after converting it is nearly 4-5 $
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2021-07-03 00:03:25	phoenix_temp	[[R]]: currency of india 'rupees'
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2021-07-03 00:04:11	Sauvin	phoenix_temp, have a gawk at this: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=323387
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2021-07-03 00:06:24	phoenix_temp	Sauvin: ill look
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2021-07-03 00:06:46	onelegend	after much pain and turmoil
2021-07-03 00:07:00	onelegend	I am now typing on a larger screen
2021-07-03 00:07:37	 *	Sauvin suddenly has a hankering for pad thai
2021-07-03 00:07:49	onelegend	why hello sauvin
2021-07-03 00:07:55	Sauvin	Hey
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2021-07-03 00:09:03	jim	normally, I type on a keyboard :)
2021-07-03 00:09:25	Sauvin	My phone and tablet have no keyboard.
2021-07-03 00:09:28	Kyv	yeah those currency exchange rates are a real pisser.
2021-07-03 00:10:18	onelegend	jim: I got weechat remote interfaces to work through ssh tunneling
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2021-07-03 00:11:10	Sauvin	onelegend, can you describe what you did?
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2021-07-03 00:13:10	jim	pad thai is usually great :)
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2021-07-03 00:13:39	onelegend	on my weechat I executed the command /relay add weechat 200, then executed /set relay.network.password "yourpasswordhere". The on my local machine I did ssh -L 2000:127.0.0.1:2000 myusername@myserverIP
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2021-07-03 00:14:32	onelegend	then I downloaded weechat android and entered localhost port 2000 in the connection, selecting plain connection
2021-07-03 00:14:33	Sauvin	The weechat is running on a remote, like a VPS?
2021-07-03 00:14:39	onelegend	yup
2021-07-03 00:14:48	onelegend	weechat runs in byobu session
2021-07-03 00:15:00	Sauvin	I gotta try to remember that.
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2021-07-03 00:20:35	 *	rascul remembers Sauvin
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2021-07-03 00:58:24	OpenRA	Can someone help me understand how I can see the effects of issuing a command? I'm trying to run Openra and see what processes it spawns, but I'm unsure how to properly do that on linux
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2021-07-03 00:58:48	OpenRA	Normally something like process explorer on windows would do the same thing, and I tried pstree, but it didn't seem to do what I was thinking
2021-07-03 00:59:12	Sauvin	You're sure it spawns processes?
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2021-07-03 00:59:53	rascul	maybe you want top
2021-07-03 01:00:12	Sauvin	Or htop
2021-07-03 01:00:15	 *	[[R]] processes rascul 
2021-07-03 01:00:24	 *	rascul puts [[R]] on top
2021-07-03 01:00:32	OpenRA	Sauvin: it uses mono to run, so i'm running openra-ra and then a SHITLOAD of mono comes up
2021-07-03 01:00:36	 *	[[R]] dominates rascul 
2021-07-03 01:00:37	 *	Sauvin chucks [R] into the microwave
2021-07-03 01:02:12	OpenRA	Does htop do a cool thing where it shows which process came from where?
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2021-07-03 01:05:52	rascul	i dunno but you can do 'top -H -p<pid>' where <pid> is for example the main firefox pid and you get to see some thingsd
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2021-07-03 01:09:53	OpenRA	interesting
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2021-07-03 01:10:17	Kyv	OpenRA, do you want a tree?
2021-07-03 01:10:22	Kyv	I've got trees.
2021-07-03 01:10:42	jim	free trees with brie?
2021-07-03 01:10:54	Kyv	indubitably
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2021-07-03 01:12:56	Kyv	F5 will give you a tree.
2021-07-03 01:13:02	Kyv	like top's V
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2021-07-03 01:15:41	rascul	i have some trees too
2021-07-03 01:15:51	rascul	they have leaves and stuffs
2021-07-03 01:15:57	rascul	some of them even have flowers
2021-07-03 01:16:21	angular_mike_	so, I am still getting crashes/Freezes in No Man's Sky after upgrading my linux kernel. Any ideas?
2021-07-03 01:16:33	rascul	downgrade your kernel
2021-07-03 01:16:44	angular_mike_	http://dpaste.com/7ZBBKQJWX
2021-07-03 01:16:52	angular_mike_	what would be a good version to go for?
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2021-07-03 01:17:11	angular_mike_	*after upgrading kernel and resetting gpu options
2021-07-03 01:17:21	rascul	the version that worked
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2021-07-03 01:17:42	angular_mike_	rascul: which one would that be?
2021-07-03 01:17:57	angular_mike_	I've been having this issue for longer than i remember
2021-07-03 01:18:03	angular_mike_	more or less
2021-07-03 01:18:06	rascul	oh i misunderstood i guess
2021-07-03 01:18:20	angular_mike_	I meant upgrading since last time I complained about it
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2021-07-03 01:20:21	jim	angular_mike_, what's no mans sky?
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2021-07-03 01:20:50	angular_mike_	jim:  a video game https://store.steampowered.com/app/275850/No_Mans_Sky/
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2021-07-03 01:21:46	jim	is it one of those games that generates a -lot- of objects?
2021-07-03 01:22:05	angular_mike_	yeah , it features proceduralyl generated planets with flora and fauna
2021-07-03 01:22:15	jim	(black and white did that too)
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2021-07-03 01:23:51	jim	well, B&W didn't generate planets, but mostly people objects
2021-07-03 01:24:01	angular_mike_	https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/UKiPeU2p/20210703082332_1.jpg
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2021-07-03 01:24:53	jim	mushrooms, ferns, trees
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2021-07-03 01:25:41	angular_mike_	https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/yjhGFKAE/20210703082528_1.jpg
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2021-07-03 01:25:46	jim	I couldn't figure out how to get it to play well except add ram
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2021-07-03 01:26:00	angular_mike_	i think i got enough ram
2021-07-03 01:26:14	angular_mike_	16gb and it isnt fulyl used
2021-07-03 01:26:43	jim	ok, that, and you get crashes
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2021-07-03 01:27:07	angular_mike_	?
2021-07-03 01:27:07	mlu	when you hacve a memory leak, no RAM is enough RAM (generally speaking)
2021-07-03 01:27:22	jim	yeah
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2021-07-03 01:27:29	roo-	I'm trying out osync (bidirectional sync), the first time I'm syncing two directories (dir1 & dir2) it seems to work fine, but once I try to sync with an empty third dir (dir1 & dir3), it actually clears dir1 instead of mirroring to dir2 ... I don't suppose anybody is experienced with that?
2021-07-03 01:27:31	angular_mike_	htop doesnt show it beign fully used though
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2021-07-03 01:27:45	jim	if that's what it is... but he has unallocated ram
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2021-07-03 01:27:55	angular_mike_	and background applciation like discord still is active
2021-07-03 01:28:02	angular_mike_	so theres enough ram for other processes
2021-07-03 01:28:08	jim	so maybe the leak is slow, or a mem leak isn't the problem
2021-07-03 01:28:18	angular_mike_	i posted dmesg above
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2021-07-03 01:29:02	jim	did you have to buy the game?
2021-07-03 01:29:06	angular_mike_	yes
2021-07-03 01:29:10	angular_mike_	it is 50% off now tho
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2021-07-03 01:29:19	angular_mike_	and can be refunded within some period on steam atl east
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2021-07-03 01:29:46	jim	maybe should consider that
2021-07-03 01:30:10	mlu	eek No Man's Sky :(
2021-07-03 01:30:15	angular_mike_	ive been playing it for over a year
2021-07-03 01:30:20	mlu	ou like it?
2021-07-03 01:30:24	angular_mike_	yes]
2021-07-03 01:30:28	angular_mike_	when it doesn crash or freeze lioke this
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2021-07-03 01:31:10	Kyv	that refund window is shut tight by now
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2021-07-03 01:31:25	Kyv	if I remember, its like 2 hours of gameplay or some other equivalent
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2021-07-03 01:33:05	theproffesor	is it an nvidia card angular_mike_ ?
2021-07-03 01:33:08	backleet	is there something like wgetpaste for images/screenshots?
2021-07-03 01:33:20	backleet	that is popular among linuxers
2021-07-03 01:33:22	angular_mike_	amd
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2021-07-03 01:36:25	theproffesor	I have no suggestions for amd unfortunately. sometimes with nvidia force composition pipeline works, but I do not know of any amd equivalent
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2021-07-03 01:38:18	Kyv	ArchWiki has good documentation on this stuff, go through and use it like a pre-flight checklist.
2021-07-03 01:38:44	angular_mike_	article on amd gpu?
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2021-07-03 01:39:31	jim	does amd gpus get built into amd cpus (similar to intel)?
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2021-07-03 01:40:18	Kyv	Yeah, I would start at Xorg, and lead through to graphics > amd.
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2021-07-03 01:41:54	Erus_Iluvatar	jim: some AMD processor have an IGP (look up amd apu)
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2021-07-03 01:47:48	backleet	q
2021-07-03 01:49:03	mlu	I believe the AMD iGPUs are actaully real Vega cores
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2021-07-03 01:55:43	Swift110-mobile	oh
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2021-07-03 02:00:13	roo-	I'm trying out osync (bidirectional sync), the first time I'm syncing two directories (dir1 & dir2) it seems to work fine, but once I try to sync with an empty third dir (dir1 & dir3), it actually clears dir1 instead of mirroring to dir2 ... I don't suppose anybody is experienced with that?
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2021-07-03 02:02:55	Erus_Iluvatar	Yeah mlu they are not yet rdna for the apu :/
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2021-07-03 02:17:43	backleet	which of the commands list bluetooth card? lsusb, lspci doesn't list anything. rfkill list doesn't list it. I probably don't have it, but not sure
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2021-07-03 02:20:53	Sauvin	backleet, does lshw do anything?
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2021-07-03 02:22:06	backleet	Sauvin: nah, sudo lshw | grep -i blue didn't show anything. I probably don't have it. It's Thinkpad T420, I had another T420 which had bluetooth, but they probably differ
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2021-07-03 02:22:37	Swift110-mobile	vwork ok cool ill look into it
2021-07-03 02:23:00	Swift110-mobile	Sauvin: I have a t420 and its Bluetooth doesn't work
2021-07-03 02:23:14	Sauvin	Guh :(
2021-07-03 02:23:56	backleet	Swift110-mobile: it probably doesn't have the card I guess
2021-07-03 02:24:12	backleet	only way to check is disassemble it and check it physically haha
2021-07-03 02:25:27	Swift110-mobile	yeah
2021-07-03 02:26:08	backleet	some T420 models have it, some don't apparently, both of my T420 don't have bluetooth indicators, but one of them has bluetooth, probably was installed after the purchase
2021-07-03 02:26:46	Swift110-mobile	oh ok
2021-07-03 02:27:39	Swift110-mobile	i got a new wifi card but it wont work until I update the bios
2021-07-03 02:27:58	Swift110-mobile	mod.the bios I mean
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2021-07-03 02:36:03	backleet	yeah, you have to coreboot it I think to remove whitelist
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2021-07-03 02:38:47	Czernobog	Hello, does anyone know a way I can turn on presentation mode in i3wm using bindsym?
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2021-07-03 02:41:59	Czernobog	hmm
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2021-07-03 03:00:47	gry	Czernobog: hi
2021-07-03 03:00:51	gry	Czernobog: does i3wm have a channel
2021-07-03 03:02:09	schillingklaus	there is #i3wm but only 1 user, so it might be the wrong one
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2021-07-03 03:04:10	Czernobog	I think they switched to OFTC but I am not sure. Will have to check their website
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2021-07-03 03:08:02	Czernobog	yup, it's oftc
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2021-07-03 03:52:11	cadmio	Hello
2021-07-03 03:52:15	cadmio	I need this symbol https://i.imgur.com/f8ZiHBml.png
2021-07-03 03:53:02	lopid	there it is
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2021-07-03 03:53:43	mlu	cadmio: in what context?
2021-07-03 03:53:50	lopid	https://unicode-table.com/en/
2021-07-03 03:54:40	cadmio	html
2021-07-03 03:54:41	mlu	cadmio: https://unicode-table.com/en/21CC/
2021-07-03 03:54:47	P4ddyF	ah, crossposting :)
2021-07-03 03:55:05	cadmio	those are equealsized arrows
2021-07-03 03:55:19	mlu	cadmio: see if there's another one in the harpoons section
2021-07-03 03:55:23	lopid	have a look around it
2021-07-03 03:55:29	cadmio	⥂
2021-07-03 03:55:32	cadmio	I found it!
2021-07-03 03:55:34	cadmio	thanks
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2021-07-03 03:57:12	mlu	hmm, wow, he left quick
2021-07-03 03:57:30	mlu	for those who were wondering, this looks like it's an equation arrow used for chemistry
2021-07-03 03:58:07	P4ddyF	more input than outcome?
2021-07-03 03:58:19	P4ddyF	exotherme reaction?
2021-07-03 03:58:55	mlu	https://unicode-table.com/en/2942/
2021-07-03 03:59:04	mlu	P4ddyF: yeah, reversible reaction but strongly favors right
2021-07-03 03:59:11	mlu	two steps forward, one step back
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2021-07-03 04:02:17	lopid	two men enter, one man leave
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2021-07-03 04:03:14	ayecee	if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands
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2021-07-03 04:03:27	lacroix	*claps*
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2021-07-03 04:06:18	 *	mlu thunderclaps
2021-07-03 04:06:35	P4ddyF	👏
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2021-07-03 04:16:54	earendel	sucking on my titties like you wanted me calling me all tjhe time like blondie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDmklLFXVc
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2021-07-03 04:17:22	earendel	you lliked the carl jung quote?
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2021-07-03 04:19:13	earendel	zzZ
2021-07-03 04:19:31	earendel	i can't rap like this.
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2021-07-03 04:20:30	schillingklaus	who permitted earendel to spread sexist drivel?
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2021-07-03 04:21:33	earendel	maybe you should google sexist
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2021-07-03 04:23:13	Kyv	it was written in the brambles
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2021-07-03 04:24:10	earendel	like pain is related to painting ..right
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2021-07-03 04:24:42	earendel	but really google this. it could make yourself better.
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2021-07-03 04:36:09	 *	rifl bites on earendel's head
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2021-07-03 04:36:30	Kyv	all the jungle took fright
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2021-07-03 04:47:42	earendel	some are born to sweet delight
2021-07-03 04:47:52	earendel	some are born to endless
2021-07-03 04:48:57	earendel	who alloed rifi to bite my head. omg rfii. dont stop.
2021-07-03 04:49:08	earendel	xd
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2021-07-03 04:49:59	P4ddyF	:D
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2021-07-03 05:02:57	Sauvin	earendel, take it to -offtopic.
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2021-07-03 05:07:34	earendel	dide. it was dead 15 minutes ago. why pimg me. yyou really want it dont u.
2021-07-03 05:08:26	earendel	where do you farm that idiots
2021-07-03 05:09:11	Mekaneck	just stop it and behave
2021-07-03 05:09:31	earendel	spierdalaj pzido.
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2021-07-03 05:10:12	Mekaneck	must be troll day
2021-07-03 05:10:27	Mekaneck	Sauvin: you a op?
2021-07-03 05:10:53	Sauvin	earendel, take it to -offtopic.
2021-07-03 05:11:11	Mekaneck	earendel just got more rude
2021-07-03 05:11:20	Mekaneck	Sauvin: ^
2021-07-03 05:11:39	earendel	take it pissoff
2021-07-03 05:11:44	Mekaneck	just translate the line and you'll see, time for a kick/ban
2021-07-03 05:11:59	earendel	stop pinging me clown. there is nothing to take anywhere.
2021-07-03 05:12:02	Mekaneck	earendel: cut the crap
2021-07-03 05:12:25	--	Mode #linux [+o Sauvin] by ChanServ
2021-07-03 05:12:26	earendel	wow. clown.
2021-07-03 05:12:41	earendel	in your face lilttle clown.
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2021-07-03 05:12:46	iflema	is it the shoes
2021-07-03 05:12:56	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:] by Sauvin
2021-07-03 05:13:00	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:earendel] by Sauvin
2021-07-03 05:13:02	@Sauvin	!@#$@#
2021-07-03 05:13:23	--	Mode #linux [-b $a:] by Sauvin
2021-07-03 05:13:25	--	Mode #linux [-o Sauvin] by ChanServ
2021-07-03 05:13:42	Mekaneck	thanks Sauvin
2021-07-03 05:14:23	Sauvin	I walk back into the place and see some ass sliming the place. Double plus ungood.
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2021-07-03 05:19:41	pabed	how should I increase sda2 that is (/) , btw I don' have lvm , here is all data about my storage https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/98cKtFFFvT/
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2021-07-03 05:20:55	PaulFertser	pabed: you can try using gprated to enlarge the partition.
2021-07-03 05:20:58	PaulFertser	gparted
2021-07-03 05:20:59	Namarrgon	increase in which direction? /dev/sda2 seems to already occupy the whole disk
2021-07-03 05:21:19	Namarrgon	unless i read the parted output incorrectly
2021-07-03 05:21:28	PaulFertser	But yes, the paste says the disk is 50 G and partition is 50 G, it's unclear how you want to increase it.
2021-07-03 05:22:05	Namarrgon	what you can do is to increase the disk-size in your VM software, then grow the partition and then the fs
2021-07-03 05:22:23	pabed	I want to add sdc1 to sda2 , but I don't want too lose my data on sda2
2021-07-03 05:22:44	Namarrgon	"add" is a bit vague
2021-07-03 05:23:37	TJ-	any ideas why the kernel would ignore "modprobe -v --force-modversion --force-vermagic ..." and refuse due to a slight vermagic difference (I'm testing some slight edits to ath.ko with incremental builds)
2021-07-03 05:23:40	pabed	Namarrgon: increasing in vm can be risky ?
2021-07-03 05:23:57	Namarrgon	pabed: resizing filesystems is inherently risky, vm or not
2021-07-03 05:24:09	Namarrgon	you want to make backups in either case
2021-07-03 05:25:13	pabed	if I copy all data on sda2 , how can I use it when my data lost , is there any other backup solution ?
2021-07-03 05:25:34	Namarrgon	there are many, the simplest is to just tar it up
2021-07-03 05:25:40	Namarrgon	or to just copy it as is
2021-07-03 05:25:45	TJ-	pabed: the easy wayis to make sdc1 LVM, create LVs with file-systems for directories like /var/, and then modify the system's /etc/fstab to mount the new dir in place of the old, then finally delete the content of the original /var/ that lives in sda2
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2021-07-03 05:26:35	Namarrgon	since this is a vm you could create an entirely new disk with the proper size, partition/format it and merge the data from both old disks onto it
2021-07-03 05:26:44	TJ-	pabed: I have separate LVs for space-using user directories too, e.g. /home/$USER/Video/
2021-07-03 05:27:34	Namarrgon	what kind of data is on /dev/sdc1? it doesn't seem mounted in your paste so i assume it's not OS related?
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2021-07-03 05:28:52	pabed	Namarrgon: nothing I added sdc1 for increasing sda2
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2021-07-03 05:29:44	Namarrgon	what i would do is to shutdown the system, use the vmware tooling to increase the size of the sda disk
2021-07-03 05:29:56	Namarrgon	then boot the system and grow the partition/filesystem
2021-07-03 05:30:05	TJ-	pabed: as Namarrgon  suggests, seeing as its virtual
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2021-07-03 05:30:15	pabed	TJ-: root@master-node:~# sudo du -sh /var
2021-07-03 05:30:15	pabed	26G     /var
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2021-07-03 05:31:01	Namarrgon	welcome to docker
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2021-07-03 05:32:10	pabed	Namarrgon: cp -R /  /mnt/sdb/ is enough for bcakup?
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2021-07-03 05:32:54	Namarrgon	you can use -a instead, it also preservces symlinks
2021-07-03 05:33:37	schillingklaus	will this copy /proc and /sys?
2021-07-03 05:34:23	Namarrgon	yes, it will attempt to
2021-07-03 05:34:25	TJ-	pabed: you should mount the root filesystem to another directory to do a copy
2021-07-03 05:34:36	Namarrgon	or, right recursion
2021-07-03 05:34:53	recursion	Sup
2021-07-03 05:35:08	Namarrgon	stay away from my backups
2021-07-03 05:35:20	TJ-	pabed: e.g. something like  "mkdir /source /target; mount /dev/sda2 /source; mount /dev/sdc1 /target;  cp -a /source/ /target/"
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2021-07-03 05:37:43	pabed	Tj: is it possible /dev/sda2 on / and  /source at the same time ?
2021-07-03 05:38:06	Namarrgon	yes, you can mount a filesystem in multiple locations
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2021-07-03 05:39:45	TJ-	pabed: I just did that very thing myself whilst shrinking an LVM VG size
2021-07-03 05:40:14	pabed	if  os after increasing vmdk doesn't up , how should I recover from /dev/sdc1 /target?
2021-07-03 05:41:08	pabed	Tj:unfortunately I didn't setup lvm from the beginning
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2021-07-03 05:49:15	Namarrgon	pabed: you copy it back and reinstall the bootloader
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2021-07-03 05:49:29	Namarrgon	though, with a vm you can just clone the whole disk or make a snapshot
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2021-07-03 05:53:02	TJ-	pabed: regarding LVM, that doesn't matter, you can add anothe block device that is using LVM to the mix, which is what I was suggesting (if that were a bare-metal install that is the easiest way to add storage and use that space for existing usage)
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2021-07-03 06:00:42	immibis	how do you select which files to back up? I'd want to exclude anything that can be redownloaded or regenerated, plus anything that's too big to be worth it (cost of loss * risk of loss < cost of regularly backing up). But those kinds of files are scattered *all over* my filesystem
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2021-07-03 06:01:43	TJ-	immibis: the standard file-system organisation is designed so that shouldn't happen unless the user is doing it
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2021-07-03 06:03:09	TJ-	immibis: distro/package installed under /usr, system configs under /etc, varying system package data under /var, user's 'stuff' under /home/, externally installed foreign software under /opt/, local admin-modified/installed system packages under /usr/local/
2021-07-03 06:03:16	immibis	TJ-: well, I want to properly back up my /home which is full of random projects and random stuff in general... Example: I want to back up my saved games under steamapps, but not game files
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2021-07-03 06:03:57	immibis	don't need to back up a complete copy of *checks folder* Alien Isolation, because that can be downloaded again, but my progress in the game can't
2021-07-03 06:05:04	immibis	i guess there is no better way than trawling through the directory tree to select things, but I am wondering if there's some process that makes it easier and also accounts for new stuff getting added.
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2021-07-03 06:06:02	immibis	like if I install a new game on Steam, something would ideally prompt me which subdirs should be added to the next backup
2021-07-03 06:06:08	immibis	but not make me go through the whole steam folder again
2021-07-03 06:06:27	TJ-	immibis: under $HOME that is something you've got to figure out since there is no prescribed organisation, aside from ~/.config/, ~/.local/ and ~/.cache/ which not all applications will abide by. Then you've got things like flatpak and snaps that do something different again
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2021-07-03 06:06:56	immibis	thanks for answering "you have to do it" but I was wondering if there were known tools or processes for doing it
2021-07-03 06:07:34	TJ-	immibis: not that I'm aware of; especially when you're wanting to back-up fragments created by an application
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2021-07-03 06:09:06	TJ-	immibis: one way I've used in the past to flag files that aren't needed to be backed up is to set them read-only, and only back-up files that have $USER mode +w ... but of course you've still got to go through the file-system applying that. The good part is, everything you don't make read-only will be backed up
2021-07-03 06:09:39	TJ-	immibis: and you could do searches using 'find' to locate all very large files and set read-only automatically (assuming large files == easy to replace)
2021-07-03 06:10:04	TJ-	immibis: or apply to entire directory trees
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2021-07-03 06:16:24	b0b	immibis: just add .local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/* to your exclude list. ncdu is a great tool to find large files/directories
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2021-07-03 06:16:57	Helmholtz1	How to get the path of the opened file of a proces?
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2021-07-03 06:17:28	lopid	lsof
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2021-07-03 06:19:04	Helmholtz1	lopid, sometime it doesn't have the full information.
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2021-07-03 06:19:17	Helmholtz1	for vlc it works fine but for thunar it doesn't have the current directory
2021-07-03 06:19:18	lopid	if you need privilege, run it as root
2021-07-03 06:19:35	lopid	the current dir isn't an opened file
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2021-07-03 06:19:58	lopid	you can find that in /proc/<pid>/cwd
2021-07-03 06:20:13	Helmholtz1	lopid, it has the same info of lsof...for thunar it is set to home
2021-07-03 06:20:20	Helmholtz1	regardless of where I've navigated to in thunar
2021-07-03 06:20:25	lopid	no doubt
2021-07-03 06:20:41	Helmholtz1	lopid, I guess I have to parse ps?
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2021-07-03 06:21:12	lopid	what a program is doing internally isn't necessarily visible from outside
2021-07-03 06:21:21	Helmholtz1	lopid, ah so it's not always possible
2021-07-03 06:21:31	lopid	you could strace it and possibly see
2021-07-03 06:21:55	Helmholtz1	lopid, thanks. about former question, is lsof the most complete command?
2021-07-03 06:22:04	lopid	complete?
2021-07-03 06:22:40	lopid	it's a very useful and comprehensive tool
2021-07-03 06:22:45	Helmholtz1	lopid, https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/94359/306382
2021-07-03 06:22:58	Helmholtz1	here are 3 suggestions...I think lsof has the most info
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2021-07-03 06:23:23	lopid	looking at /proc/<pid>/cwd is the most straightforward
2021-07-03 06:23:41	Helmholtz1	Also, is there a way to get this without sudo?
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2021-07-03 06:24:20	lopid	you don't need sudo for your own processes
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2021-07-03 06:24:37	lopid	cwd isn't "where i'm looking in thunar"
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2021-07-03 06:25:28	Helmholtz1	lopid, about sudo, I can't look into proc for processes that I initiated like zahtura
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2021-07-03 06:26:29	lopid	you should be able to. i don't know what zahtura is
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2021-07-03 06:31:22	Helmholtz1	lopid, https://i.imgur.com/UhujkYP.png
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2021-07-03 06:31:47	Helmholtz1	what are fd and "REG" in lsof ouput?
2021-07-03 06:32:41	lopid	fd usually means file descriptor, and i'd guess REG might mean register
2021-07-03 06:33:21	lopid	REGular file. it's in the lsof man page
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2021-07-03 06:36:55	Helmholtz1	lopid, is ther also a doc to describe what fd=2w or fd=11r means?
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2021-07-03 06:37:10	Helmholtz1	*there
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2021-07-03 06:37:52	lopid	yes, in the man page
2021-07-03 06:38:09	lopid	"is the File Descriptor number of the file"
2021-07-03 06:38:19	lopid	search for that
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2021-07-03 06:39:12	Helmholtz1	lol sorry
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2021-07-03 06:40:10	P4ddyF	convenient for me: sit and learn
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2021-07-03 06:48:50	Helmholtz1	So I open a file with vls, do lsof vlc_procc_pid, then filter out the result for actual files
2021-07-03 06:48:51	Helmholtz1	https://dpaste.com/EVMWGEL95
2021-07-03 06:49:31	hassoon	<3 kde
2021-07-03 06:49:32	Helmholtz1	I expected to see only the opened file but there are other things. Is it because xdg-open by default does open some desktop files for an app?
2021-07-03 06:49:36	hassoon	<3 i3
2021-07-03 06:49:41	lopid	you could probably ask lsof to filter its output instead
2021-07-03 06:50:30	Helmholtz1	lopid, I don't think it would be possible to get only the last line (the actual file) because lsof has no way of knowing what did xdg-open do
2021-07-03 06:50:50	lopid	right
2021-07-03 06:51:30	lopid	it might help to filter out known places you're not interested in
2021-07-03 06:51:40	lopid	s/places/files/
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2021-07-03 06:52:26	Helmholtz1	lopid, yeah like exclude dotfiles or XDG_DESKTOP files
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2021-07-03 06:52:46	lopid	limit to files open for read access, if that's what you're interested in, etc
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2021-07-03 06:55:06	Helmholtz1	I actually want to save the state of my opened apps and restore after shutdown
2021-07-03 06:55:19	Helmholtz1	Without hibernate
2021-07-03 06:55:41	lopid	put them in a vm
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2021-07-03 07:03:22	ilmais1n	hello
2021-07-03 07:03:41	-->	sinaowolabi_ (~SinaOwola@160.152.129.127) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 07:04:42	immibis	do i really need a copy of the monero blockchain from 2018?
2021-07-03 07:04:46	immibis	somehow i doubt it
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2021-07-03 07:05:33	ilmais1n	anyone with knownledge on firejail? is there any workaround for firejail to make different whitelist items to be within same mountpoints or something? https://github.com/weechat/weechat/issues/1667
2021-07-03 07:05:48	ZenixOwler	question, i encounter something while trying to bind a port to my host using netcat, "nc -nlvvp 8080", and it resulted in "Error : Couldn't setup listening socket ( err=-3 )", it doesn't seem very detailed so how can i diagnose it
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2021-07-03 07:09:36	Fleck	hey, I would like to create some virtual instances on my server, would like to have web gui to control/use instances, but not super complicated, any suggestions?
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2021-07-03 07:10:35	acresearch	people, which channel should i go to, to ask about the year of manifactire of an old screen? i searched online but i could not find it
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2021-07-03 07:10:52	MrElendig	Fleck: cockpit?
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2021-07-03 07:12:24	Fleck	and how you guys set up bridges and stuff remotely? One mistake and you are disconnected :D
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2021-07-03 07:12:46	koollman	Fleck: carefully :)
2021-07-03 07:13:11	Fleck	in my case that usually ends to "AVOID!" :D
2021-07-03 07:13:27	koollman	also it shows how nice it can be to have some other way to get to the server, another network interface or best, some kvm / ipmi thing
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2021-07-03 07:14:26	Fleck	yeah, have ipmi, but, hosting company asks 1/3+ price (monthly) just to plug ipmi to switchport :/
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2021-07-03 07:14:44	koollman	damn. That's expensive
2021-07-03 07:14:48	AndroidDAW	https://github.com/mgood7123/prebuilder  added readme
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2021-07-03 07:14:58	koollman	which company ? So that I avoid them :)
2021-07-03 07:15:10	Fleck	koollman: ok, I will look into cockpit, thanks
2021-07-03 07:15:28	Fleck	koollman: just some latvian hosting company, doubt you will encounter them :D
2021-07-03 07:15:37	Fleck	if you are not from latvia ofc :D
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2021-07-03 07:16:04	koollman	well, I use a german company, and I'm not from there. As long as they provide internet services, I might end up using something from them :)
2021-07-03 07:16:23	Fleck	sigmanet.lv
2021-07-03 07:16:27	koollman	my preference to handle virtual instances is proxmox, but it probably do not fit the 'not super complicated' part
2021-07-03 07:16:32	koollman	(and, yes, you would have to setup a bridge, too :) )
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2021-07-03 07:19:08	VMGuy23	180MB RAM usage on Void is very nice to look at
2021-07-03 07:19:45	VMGuy23	I have HexChat open with 8 channels joined, all on Libera, with LXqt desktop
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2021-07-03 07:21:40	VMGuy23	brb
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2021-07-03 07:26:03	paulcarroty	after you open the browser your Void magically transforms to general distro
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2021-07-03 07:27:59	Kyv	that doesnt make any sense
2021-07-03 07:29:08	paulcarroty	by RAM usage
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2021-07-03 07:31:29	Kyv	its possible a browser would have it use around the same amount as many distros on login
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2021-07-03 07:36:04	Kyv	librewolf + ublock origin and javascript disabled appears to use considerably less than firefox though, for example.
2021-07-03 07:36:34	Kyv	he coud always go with netsurf, you never know
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2021-07-03 07:52:11	soulisson	Hello
2021-07-03 07:52:43	-->	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.2.91) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 07:53:21	soulisson	I downloaded the latest version of kali from the official site. I'm installing it in a virtualbox VM. The installation is progressing but it has been more than an hour. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do to speed up things?
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2021-07-03 07:55:33	rindolf	soulisson: hi
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2021-07-03 07:56:07	rindolf	soulisson: it isn't normal
2021-07-03 07:56:19	-->	bonsai (~bonsai@user/bonsai) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 07:56:21	bonsai	Hi
2021-07-03 07:56:41	bonsai	How to allow using of who command only for root users ?
2021-07-03 07:56:56	bonsai	78.35.96.23)
2021-07-03 07:56:56	bonsai	root@server423565:~#
2021-07-03 07:56:58	soulisson	rindolf, thank you. What steps should I take?
2021-07-03 07:57:00	bonsai	lol
2021-07-03 07:57:08	bonsai	fucking right mouse buttn
2021-07-03 07:57:19	bonsai	anyway
2021-07-03 07:57:28	bonsai	can someone help me ?
2021-07-03 07:57:39	rindolf	soulisson: note that i recall that installing debian on vbox being very slow too
2021-07-03 07:58:15	soulisson	rindolf, I set up my VM with 4 CPUs and a little bit more than 2 GB of memory (my current laptop has only 8 GB of memory)
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2021-07-03 07:59:04	soulisson	bonsai, for what reason do you want to do that if you don't mind?
2021-07-03 07:59:44	bonsai	Why people answer with question always on some question :/
2021-07-03 08:00:18	rindolf	bonsai: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 60384 Sep 24  2020 /usr/bin/who - doeshnt seem to be suid
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2021-07-03 08:00:54	soulisson	bonsai, because maybe there is a better way to do things. Anyway remove the execute permission, it should do it.
2021-07-03 08:01:05	bonsai	thank you
2021-07-03 08:01:06	rudi_s	To prenvt x-y-problems. Often people don't ask what they really want to do but ask about a a specific approach which they think will solve the issue. Knowing the real problem helps giving a good answer.
2021-07-03 08:01:31	bonsai	I just want to disallow using of function who for normal users
2021-07-03 08:01:35	bonsai	nothing more
2021-07-03 08:01:43	bonsai	thank you for advice
2021-07-03 08:01:48	bonsai	wish you all nice day
2021-07-03 08:01:53	rudi_s	And why would you want to prevent other users from running the who command? All information can be retrieved through other means, it's not like removing who will help hide anything.
2021-07-03 08:01:56	rudi_s	bonsai: ^
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2021-07-03 08:03:42	bonsai	so users can't see other users IP
2021-07-03 08:03:55	rudi_s	And why would they need `who` for that?
2021-07-03 08:03:57	bonsai	thats the reason
2021-07-03 08:04:10	bonsai	cause this command display users IP's ?
2021-07-03 08:04:11	-->	akoana (~ah@user/akoana) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 08:04:19	rudi_s	And that's why telling the real reason helps.
2021-07-03 08:04:25	rudi_s	It's not enough to disable who to hide that information!
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2021-07-03 08:04:34	bonsai	but its a step in the way
2021-07-03 08:04:52	bonsai	i guess
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2021-07-03 08:05:11	HumbleGuy	how to upgrade gcc compiler to version 10.3.0 on debian? curentlly mine is at 8.3.0
2021-07-03 08:05:13	rudi_s	Well ...
2021-07-03 08:05:18	-->	Posterdati (~posterdat@host-82-49-175-12.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #linux
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2021-07-03 08:05:46	rudi_s	bonsai: There are a lot of information "leaks" on a linux/unix system.
2021-07-03 08:05:53	-->	rtypo (~alex@user/rtypo) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 08:06:01	rudi_s	A better way for your specific issue is to prevent access to /var/run/utmp
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2021-07-03 08:06:34	rudi_s	Ah, correction, /var/log/wtmp and /var/log/lastlog
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2021-07-03 08:07:07	rudi_s	If you want to hide utmp you'll also have to use something like hidepid to prevent users from seeing processes of other users.
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2021-07-03 08:08:56	bonsai	I checked and it seems you have right
2021-07-03 08:09:14	bonsai	rudi_s:  thank you for advanced advice
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2021-07-03 08:10:12	OnkelTem	Hi all
2021-07-03 08:10:13	bonsai	.+karma rudi_s
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2021-07-03 08:10:23	HighAdConsultant	Hi
2021-07-03 08:10:23	OnkelTem	Hi folks. I've got a VPS with fresh Ubuntu 20.04 and I cannot start docker there and it fails
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2021-07-03 08:10:40	OnkelTem	The reason is: "Running iptables --wait -t nat -L -n failed with message: `iptables v1.8.4 (legacy): can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?)"
2021-07-03 08:10:42	HighAdConsultant	oh looking into setting up Docker too was going to ask about it too
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2021-07-03 08:10:52	OnkelTem	How comes a fresh Ubuntu 20.04 install doesn't have something like that?
2021-07-03 08:10:55	Namarrgon	HumbleGuy: which debian version are you using?
2021-07-03 08:11:02	rindolf	HumbleGuy: hi.are you using debian testing?
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2021-07-03 08:11:44	<--	bonsai (~bonsai@user/bonsai) has left #linux (thanks for help)
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2021-07-03 08:12:03	Namarrgon	there's no gcc-10 for buster
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2021-07-03 08:12:21	VMGuy234	Hpw do I remove the Symbolic Link icon in the corner of a link on Cinnamon Deskto[
2021-07-03 08:12:24	VMGuy234	*Desktop
2021-07-03 08:13:38	akik	OnkelTem: is it a normal linux installation or is there something special about it?
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2021-07-03 08:15:24	OnkelTem	akik: I'm not sure anymore. This is on a VPS, I rented it recently. I selected Ubuntu 20.04 from a list and hoped it's just a normal Ubuntu. Also, after I got the access to the box, I ran 'apt-get upgrade' and restarted it
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2021-07-03 08:15:46	akik	OnkelTem: is it openvz or some kind of container setup?
2021-07-03 08:16:00	OnkelTem	akik: how can I know that?
2021-07-03 08:16:13	akik	OnkelTem: uname -a or virt-what
2021-07-03 08:16:36	curdlesnoot	OnkelTem: does `modprobe iptable_nat` complain, if you run it as root?
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2021-07-03 08:17:35	OnkelTem	Linux <...> 3.10.0-1127.10.1.vz7.162.3 #1 SMP
2021-07-03 08:17:44	OnkelTem	vz7 - is that the thing?
2021-07-03 08:17:51	aaro	OnkelTem: you should run "apt update && apt upgrade"
2021-07-03 08:17:51	akik	OnkelTem: yes
2021-07-03 08:18:07	akik	OnkelTem: it's a container
2021-07-03 08:18:08	OnkelTem	aaro: that I did first
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2021-07-03 08:18:25	akik	https://wiki.openvz.org/Main_Page
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2021-07-03 08:18:59	OnkelTem	akik: ok, I see. Well, this is not the first VPS I work with. I had a few in the past and I installed and run docker there w/o any issues. So it's somthign new for me. Thanks, I'll check it out
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2021-07-03 08:20:35	raczka	it is possible that I get disconnected from remote session after some idle time
2021-07-03 08:20:44	raczka	like I dont know 10 min ?
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2021-07-03 08:21:32	raczka	I mean it is possible to set something like this in some config
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2021-07-03 08:22:43	akoana	raczka: what kind of remote session, ssh?
2021-07-03 08:22:49	HumbleGuy	Namarrgon, its debian on wsl2
2021-07-03 08:22:58	raczka	akoana:  yes
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2021-07-03 08:23:04	Namarrgon	HumbleGuy: buster?
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2021-07-03 08:23:26	HumbleGuy	yes i think
2021-07-03 08:23:34	HumbleGuy	(how do i check)
2021-07-03 08:23:35	Namarrgon	what is in /etc/os-release?
2021-07-03 08:23:44	raczka	have new vps and session get frozen after some idle time
2021-07-03 08:23:47	dostoyevsky2	I wonder if just using a USB disk for making backups would give me the fastest transfer rates...
2021-07-03 08:24:05	HumbleGuy	Namarrgon, yes its buster
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2021-07-03 08:24:38	Namarrgon	HumbleGuy: there's no official gcc-10 package for buster
2021-07-03 08:24:39	akoana	raczka: you can try to put followinf two lines into your $HOME/.ssh/config: ServerAliveInterval 60  and ServerAliveCountMax 10000 (something like that)
2021-07-03 08:24:49	akoana	following*
2021-07-03 08:24:57	Namarrgon	HumbleGuy: https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/mmure2/upgrading_the_gcc_gnu_compiler_in_buster/
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2021-07-03 08:25:12	raczka	akoana:   Ok I will try
2021-07-03 08:25:14	raczka	ty
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2021-07-03 08:26:10	HumbleGuy	oh so i build it from source
2021-07-03 08:26:17	HumbleGuy	damn it will take a long time
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2021-07-03 08:29:17	raczka	akoana: I dont even have that file and folder :/ should I create one ?
2021-07-03 08:29:25	akoana	yes
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2021-07-03 08:30:16	akoana	just put the two lines into that file
2021-07-03 08:30:25	raczka	+ reboot ? or restart of some service ?
2021-07-03 08:31:04	akoana	no need for that, your next ssh command will use the config file
2021-07-03 08:31:09	raczka	ok
2021-07-03 08:31:24	raczka	ty
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2021-07-03 08:36:47	akoana	raczka: for more information about those two parameters see man 5 ssh_config. ServerAliveInterval "Sets a timeout interval in seconds after which if no data has been received from the server, ssh(1) will send a message through the encrypted channel to request a response from the server.". Default is 0, which means no such messages will be sent. This could be the reason in your case,
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2021-07-03 08:41:34	HumbleGuy	can someone explain me please the option --disable-multilib and enable --enable-multilib configuration? i see a lot of people disable it, why is that? Does this work only on 32-bit machines? can i enable it if i have x86_64?
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2021-07-03 08:43:01	SkunkyLaptop	HumbleGuy: you've been told several times that for gentoo support, you need to go to #gentoo.  yet you keep coming in here to ask gentoo specific questions.  why?
2021-07-03 08:43:37	HumbleGuy	SkunkyLaptop, i don't think this is gentoo specific question
2021-07-03 08:43:51	HumbleGuy	but fine i will ask there
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2021-07-03 08:47:32	raczka	ok
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2021-07-03 08:49:46	cadderly	technically he's right, gentoo doesn't write the source
2021-07-03 08:51:02	cadderly	I think disabling multilib will mean it'll only work for whichever arch you compile it for, it's probably a simpler build I'd imagine
2021-07-03 08:51:14	HumbleGuy	gcc
2021-07-03 08:51:26	akik	#linux is for all linux discussion
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2021-07-03 08:52:42	dostoyevsky2	akik: I like linux
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2021-07-03 08:54:02	rud0lf	who doesn't, dostoyevsky2 ?
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2021-07-03 08:54:12	cadderly	multilib gcc could probably cross-compile
2021-07-03 08:54:28	cadderly	I thought glibc had something like that
2021-07-03 08:54:39	dostoyevsky2	rud0lf: RMS
2021-07-03 08:54:44	rud0lf	?
2021-07-03 08:54:57	rud0lf	Random Mosaic Stereogram?
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2021-07-03 09:02:31	akik	rms is married with linux (richard stallman)
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2021-07-03 09:05:15	dostoyevsky2	rms prefers hurd
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2021-07-03 09:15:35	velix	akik: so he's softwarophil ?
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2021-07-03 09:16:31	akik	marriages are not always easy :)
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2021-07-03 09:17:15	eqw	what's the difference between libreadline-gplv2-dev libreadline-dev packages ?
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2021-07-03 09:18:18	TheLinuxNerd	eqw maybe newer versions of the lib have another license ...
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2021-07-03 09:28:34	Helmholtz1	How can I redirect output of a pipe to a variable in the middle of a pipeline?
2021-07-03 09:29:02	Helmholtz1	jq '.' a.json | redirect_result | fzf
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2021-07-03 09:29:57	Helmholtz1	I want to present a filtered json to fzf but before the actual piping to fzf, I want to do something to the output of jq
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2021-07-03 09:35:06	rascul	what do you want to do to the output of jq?
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2021-07-03 09:38:08	Helmholtz1	rascul, Filter out the a.json agian based on user selection
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2021-07-03 09:40:02	rascul	some_var=$(jq '.' a.json); fzf <<<"$some_var"
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2021-07-03 09:40:29	rascul	might not need the variable, depends on what you're doing in between
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2021-07-03 09:42:28	lopid	maybe you can do it in the first call to jq
2021-07-03 09:42:53	rascul	jq is pretty powerful but it's hard for me to wrap my head around its query language
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2021-07-03 09:43:08	rascul	or filter language or whatever it is
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2021-07-03 09:43:22	lopid	yeah its man page examples aren't exactly clear, either
2021-07-03 09:43:57	topoi	When Alice listens on a port, how does Alice tell which IP a connecting Bob has?
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2021-07-03 09:44:44	lopid	alice examines bob's packets
2021-07-03 09:44:53	Psi-Jack	Well, Bob says so, because it's in the packet Bob sends.
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2021-07-03 09:48:39	topoi	So if Alice wouldn't want to implement a listener it would use netcat along with something like tcpdump?
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2021-07-03 09:49:49	rascul	what is the problem you're trying to solve?
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2021-07-03 09:54:57	kilobyte_ch	Is there something like a common "linux defconfig diff template"? My Problem is that I built a custom Kernel for a SoC according to the defconfig in arch/arm/configs/. The Kernel works but I always miss modules for common tasks like Docker, NFS, iSCSI and so in in Debian. So my ideal solution would be to get a sort of diff which I can apply to get all this common modules. Is there something like that?
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2021-07-03 09:55:23	kilobyte_ch	Or does this question better fit to #debian?
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2021-07-03 09:59:57	curdlesnoot	kilobyte_ch: you could, of course, design one. or, perhaps, find a vendor whose config is already more in line with your aims.
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2021-07-03 10:02:55	curdlesnoot	or just save the .config you produced that works and re-import it for future builds.
2021-07-03 10:03:57	curdlesnoot	defconfig doesn't necessarily have to be the basis for the build.
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2021-07-03 10:06:56	akoana	rascul: yeah, same to me, jq is a strange language, seems its author Stephen Dolan prefers exotic programming languages, e.g.: https://github.com/stedolan/bf.sed "An optimising compiler for brainf*ck, produces x86 Linux ELF binaries written entirely in sed" ;)
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2021-07-03 10:09:12	kilobyte_ch	curdlesnoot: sure, but my question is more if there is like a diff patch I can apply which fits common usage scenarious like being used in a Debian System with Services like Docker, NFS, iSCSI and so on. It doesn't really make any sense to configure the Kernel from scratch everytime I need a Kernel for another SoC.
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2021-07-03 10:09:50	curdlesnoot	kilobyte_ch: I don't know why you think you have to configure it from scratch. the defconfig is one potential starting point. if you've already gone to the trouble of patching in the fetures you want, keep the .config file and use that as the starting point, not defconfig.
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2021-07-03 10:10:24	curdlesnoot	anyway, the answer is probably: no, unless you take the configs used by vendors that are already suited to your needs.
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2021-07-03 10:11:45	curdlesnoot	the thing is, when you compile kernels, you are your own vendor, in a sense.
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2021-07-03 10:13:52	curdlesnoot	start with defconfig the first time, by all means, if you're used to it. just don't keep throwing away your the changes encompassed by your finished .config when you're done.
2021-07-03 10:14:27	kilobyte_ch	curdlesnoot: ok, I see, is there a convenient way to save changes I applied manually? Like I used a defconfig, applied my manual changes through menuconfig and then save this change so I can apply it also to other defconfigs. Or is a normal diff my way to go?
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2021-07-03 10:14:30	curdlesnoot	back it up and copy it into place the next time you build a kernel.
2021-07-03 10:14:49	curdlesnoot	once you're done with menuconfig, a file named ".config" will exist.
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2021-07-03 10:15:35	curdlesnoot	you can keep that and reintroduce it into a 100% clean set of sources later. simply copy it into place.
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2021-07-03 10:16:05	curdlesnoot	if you need to then twiddle that further, you can run menuconfig yet again.
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2021-07-03 10:16:26	kilobyte_ch	Yep, fully understand that. But I'm thinking of how to also capture my manual changes for use with other defconfigs without entering all changes manually again for the other defconfig.
2021-07-03 10:16:33	kilobyte_ch	But I think diff should help me with that :)
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2021-07-03 10:17:04	curdlesnoot	so, use your .config as the point of comparison to generate a patch, maybe?
2021-07-03 10:17:31	kilobyte_ch	yep, thats my conclusion now :) Thanks for the clarification!
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2021-07-03 10:18:12	curdlesnoot	I'm not sure it provides much value because defconfigs tend to be quite skeletal and rely heavily in practice on the defaults defined in the Kconfig files.
2021-07-03 10:18:20	curdlesnoot	nevertheless, if that's how you want to do it, you can.
2021-07-03 10:18:41	curdlesnoot	it will probably just produce not-very-readable diffs.
2021-07-03 10:18:55	curdlesnoot	(easier just to read the original .config, imo)
2021-07-03 10:19:21	curdlesnoot	hmm.
2021-07-03 10:19:57	kilobyte_ch	My idea would be to diff the .config which should create a readable diff
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2021-07-03 10:20:27	curdlesnoot	well I suppose you could do it this way: 1) take a clean set of sources 2) run make defconfig 3) cp .config .config.def 4) make menuconfig and apply your intended common changes 5) diff -u .config.def .config
2021-07-03 10:20:31	curdlesnoot	that should be readable.
2021-07-03 10:20:41	curdlesnoot	but then it produces something that can't be applied to the original defconfig.
2021-07-03 10:20:52	kilobyte_ch	Thats no problem I think
2021-07-03 10:20:55	curdlesnoot	my point is, don't expect anything applied to deconfig to ever be digestible. it's too skeletal.
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2021-07-03 10:21:07	curdlesnoot	defconfigs are not complete configs of the sort you get after exiting menuconfig.
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2021-07-03 10:21:35	curdlesnoot	well, I don't know about for arm but that's been my experience otherwise.
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2021-07-03 10:22:46	kilobyte_ch	Can understand this. But I hope this will get me a good starting point. But it also explains why there is no ready solution for this :)
2021-07-03 10:23:04	curdlesnoot	yes. well. in the end, all that matters is that you introduce the changes you always want to be applied for your builds.
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2021-07-03 10:23:32	curdlesnoot	whether it be by dropping in a pre-cooked .config, applying diffs to defconfig or anything else.
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2021-07-03 10:25:36	Eryn_FL	hey there is a matrix libera chat bridge now?
2021-07-03 10:26:04	curdlesnoot	I believe so.
2021-07-03 10:26:39	Eryn_FL	cool
2021-07-03 10:26:44	curdlesnoot	not sure whether it's hooked up here, though.
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2021-07-03 10:27:41	rascul	akoana a bf compiler in sed... i think i'm done linuxing for today
2021-07-03 10:27:52	akoana	lol
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2021-07-03 10:31:12	akoana	rascul: there's evenmore, the same author has also writtem this paper "Counterexamples in Type Systems, a compendium of horrible programs that crash, segfault or otherwise explode." https://counterexamples.org/intro.html ...
2021-07-03 10:31:20	akoana	even more*
2021-07-03 10:32:14	akoana	don't let this ruin your day :)
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2021-07-03 10:38:50	Maya27	hey, is there anyone here?
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2021-07-03 10:38:56	Psi-Jack	Nope.
2021-07-03 10:39:03	akoana	(So much for the much-advertised apparent security of strongly typed programming languages)
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2021-07-03 10:41:27	Maya27	waw, kind people detected
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2021-07-03 10:44:43	Maya27	i have a question related to linux, would a kind soul here answer me?
2021-07-03 10:45:22	Psi-Jack	You would need to actually ask a question, not continue to ask to ask a question.
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2021-07-03 10:45:55	akoana	chances for that may increase after asking the question :)
2021-07-03 10:46:22	Maya27	are you guys good at programming?
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2021-07-03 10:48:29	Namarrgon	no but we're good at answering linux related questions
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2021-07-03 10:48:50	Shariff	Namarrgon: Perhaps it's bash script 'programming'
2021-07-03 10:48:59	-->	Skyz (~Skyz@user/skyz) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 10:49:19	Namarrgon	there are better suited channels for those questions
2021-07-03 10:49:31	<--	tom1984 (~tom1984@111.192.243.2) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-03 10:49:40	Shariff	Namarrgon: yes
2021-07-03 10:49:49	Shariff	Maya27: what is the actual question you have? :)
2021-07-03 10:49:51	Maya27	what's bash script
2021-07-03 10:49:54	<--	koltrast (cf6babc4@h77-53-57-114.cust.a3fiber.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-03 10:49:58	Psi-Jack	🤦‍♂️
2021-07-03 10:50:05	wigums	lol
2021-07-03 10:50:27	Maya27	i study in french, don't be hard on me =(
2021-07-03 10:50:37	akik	Maya27: you can program logic in a bash script and use normal shell commands in it
2021-07-03 10:51:29	Shariff	Forgive my horrible french but: que-ce que ton question, en anglais, svp.? :)
2021-07-03 10:51:39	akik	kvack
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2021-07-03 10:52:11	Maya27	Shariff that was actually really good french
2021-07-03 10:52:21	Shariff	I'm shocked, thanks! :)
2021-07-03 10:52:31	<--	GrantN05 (GrantN05@user/grantn05) has quit (Quit: Bye)
2021-07-03 10:52:45	Maya27	akik i use visual box
2021-07-03 10:52:55	-->	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 10:52:56	koollman	it was somewhat understandable. And it lacked any swearword, so, was it really good ? :)
2021-07-03 10:53:10	<--	Trieste (T@user/pilgrim) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-03 10:53:25	Maya27	yes koollman
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2021-07-03 10:53:40	Shariff	koollman: I don't know nearly enough french to swear in it... yet :)
2021-07-03 10:54:10	-->	arash (~arash@2a01:5ec0:b005:a72e:7455:2b49:ab1c:7f35) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 10:54:10	Maya27	then I can help you reach at least a B2 level in french shariff
2021-07-03 10:54:10	koollman	Maya27: pardon my french but: Bordel accouche c'est quoi ta vraie question au final, fait chier! ;)
2021-07-03 10:54:49	Shariff	Shariff: it is on my to do list! Now.. how can we help?
2021-07-03 10:54:52	akik	Maya27: virtualbox?
2021-07-03 10:54:53	-->	firepup (~firepup@user/firepup) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 10:54:55	Maya27	is koollman french?
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2021-07-03 10:55:18	Maya27	akik yes i was programming a library check up for borrowed books
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2021-07-03 10:58:32	Shariff	Maya27: Ok.. go on please :)
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2021-07-03 10:59:49	Maya27	i'm feeling useless when it comes to computer science =(
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2021-07-03 11:00:34	Shariff	Maya27: We all learn, so will you, if you need it :)
2021-07-03 11:00:54	Maya27	i need to get my diploma yes =(
2021-07-03 11:01:21	<--	Camilo (~hugh@193.176.30.82) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-03 11:01:21	Shariff	Maya27: If you don't ask your question, we can't help :)
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2021-07-03 11:02:55	Maya27	i have to do a thing, i'll come back very soon
2021-07-03 11:02:58	Maya27	please don't go
2021-07-03 11:03:40	Maya27	i also have a problem with github, they didn't approve my candidature
2021-07-03 11:03:48	Maya27	but i'm a student
2021-07-03 11:03:54	Maya27	and they didn't
2021-07-03 11:04:08	gtlsgamr	Share your homepages, so we can see your corner of the internet!
2021-07-03 11:04:24	Maya27	homepages?
2021-07-03 11:04:41	gtlsgamr	personal websites
2021-07-03 11:04:41	Maya27	do you mean the school where i go?
2021-07-03 11:04:49	gtlsgamr	I was talking in general
2021-07-03 11:04:54	gtlsgamr	not to you specifically
2021-07-03 11:05:17	Maya27	so people here have websites?
2021-07-03 11:05:18	Maya27	wow
2021-07-03 11:05:25	Maya27	you must be all driving a ferrari then
2021-07-03 11:05:32	akik	hehe
2021-07-03 11:05:35	gtlsgamr	it is super cheap to have your own website
2021-07-03 11:05:42	akik	porsche wannabe vw
2021-07-03 11:05:45	gtlsgamr	hitarththummar.xyz here is mine <<
2021-07-03 11:06:07	Maya27	but to build a modern website, it cost at least a 1000$ from a freelancer
2021-07-03 11:06:17	gtlsgamr	What no!
2021-07-03 11:06:27	gtlsgamr	You can alwayslearn to build one
2021-07-03 11:06:35	TheLinuxNerd	Maya27 :-) depends on the freelancer, I'd charge 250$
2021-07-03 11:06:43	gtlsgamr	I charge only 50 ;)
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2021-07-03 11:06:58	TheLinuxNerd	gtlsgamr :-D
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2021-07-03 11:07:06	Maya27	you charge 250$ for a cute website?
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2021-07-03 11:07:17	Psi-Jack	That's why I make the big bucks. I charge $10k.
2021-07-03 11:07:23	THE_GFR|W	lol
2021-07-03 11:07:26	THE_GFR|W	well
2021-07-03 11:07:33	THE_GFR|W	that's a ton of money for a website
2021-07-03 11:07:34	Psi-Jack	With the $ on the left side, not the right. :)
2021-07-03 11:07:46	THE_GFR|W	I got my website done for a song and a dance
2021-07-03 11:07:50	gtlsgamr	10k per website vs 50*200 websites ;)
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2021-07-03 11:08:09	THE_GFR|W	my web guy is very good
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2021-07-03 11:08:27	THE_GFR|W	he's not really a "web guy" as a "developer"
2021-07-03 11:08:32	TheLinuxNerd	Maya27 why not ... I mean I believe everyone should be able to afford it
2021-07-03 11:08:34	THE_GFR|W	as much as a developer
2021-07-03 11:08:46	THE_GFR|W	well
2021-07-03 11:08:53	gtlsgamr	Maya27: You can always make one on neocities for free
2021-07-03 11:09:00	lopid	i'll do it for tree fiddy
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2021-07-03 11:09:01	THE_GFR|W	geocities
2021-07-03 11:09:09	-->	necyd (~Jackie@89.151.186.89) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 11:09:11	TheLinuxNerd	geocities died
2021-07-03 11:09:12	 *	THE_GFR|W oops bad word
2021-07-03 11:09:13	darsie	Is publishing your lspci output risky?
2021-07-03 11:09:19	<--	necyd (~Jackie@89.151.186.89) has quit (Changing host)
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2021-07-03 11:09:23	Psi-Jack	darsie: No
2021-07-03 11:09:23	lopid	no
2021-07-03 11:09:28	THE_GFR|W	why would it be?
2021-07-03 11:09:29	TheLinuxNerd	darsie no, it's not unique
2021-07-03 11:09:32	gtlsgamr	I don't know what geocities is THE_GFR
2021-07-03 11:09:33	darsie	umm, I meant lsmod ... :)
2021-07-03 11:09:43	Psi-Jack	darsie: No
2021-07-03 11:09:44	THE_GFR|W	gtlsgamr: ;-)
2021-07-03 11:09:50	darsie	ok :)
2021-07-03 11:10:16	TheLinuxNerd	gtlsgamr it used to be a free web hosting service offered by Yahoo in the 90s
2021-07-03 11:10:17	DPA	I wanted to redo my website, multiple times, but never got to it. So there's nothing there: https://dpa.li/ https://danielabrecht.ch/ . There is some old stuff on: https://old.danielabrecht.ch/ but it's outdated and the projects are buggy...
2021-07-03 11:10:57	TheLinuxNerd	my website is https://ioanm.ro, I'm even a Microsoft partner
2021-07-03 11:10:58	gtlsgamr	TheLinuxNerd: Oh, i didn't know that. I wasn't born then
2021-07-03 11:11:06	rascul	web sites are the worst
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2021-07-03 11:11:16	TheLinuxNerd	gtlsgamr neither was I, but I like retro history and computing history
2021-07-03 11:11:22	<--	Maya27 (~Maya@41.141.23.133) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-03 11:11:50	TheLinuxNerd	DPA LOL! That GPG key is long
2021-07-03 11:11:57	TheLinuxNerd	16384?
2021-07-03 11:12:04	DPA	THere are pictures in there ;)
2021-07-03 11:12:09	TheLinuxNerd	how many days did it take to gen?
2021-07-03 11:12:19	DPA	Less than 1
2021-07-03 11:13:08	DPA	Most of the bytes are identities, not the key.
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2021-07-03 11:13:40	TheLinuxNerd	DPA but it is 16384? cause I heard that can even take 3 days to generate?
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2021-07-03 11:14:43	DPA	It can? It was done within an hour or two, and it wasn't the newest PC.
2021-07-03 11:15:15	rascul	maybe don't generate keys on a 486
2021-07-03 11:15:26	<--	gordie (~tieinv@user/tieinv) has left #linux (bye)
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2021-07-03 11:15:44	TheLinuxNerd	rascul on a Raspberry Pi
2021-07-03 11:15:50	darsie	I could generate a key for you on my i7-3770.
2021-07-03 11:16:07	TheLinuxNerd	darsie no worries mate I got an i7-10700
2021-07-03 11:16:09	-->	koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 11:16:14	darsie	:)
2021-07-03 11:16:36	-->	digup (~digup@58-7-236-103.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #linux
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2021-07-03 11:16:43	TheLinuxNerd	but I remembered, it was 3 days on a Raspberry Pi forum, back then I was hosting my website on it
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2021-07-03 11:20:33	-->	Guest39 (~Guest39@adsl-157.176.58.195.tellas.gr) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 11:21:09	Guest39	iLinux OS 2.15 is released! https://ilinuxos.com
2021-07-03 11:21:28	<--	darsie (~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) has left #linux (No boundaries on the net!)
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2021-07-03 11:22:18	Psi-Jack	I already hate the opening web page splash crap on that site.
2021-07-03 11:22:21	<--	unlink2 (~unlink@p200300ebcf3ae50055b1550759e1ddc5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 11:22:41	Guest39	LOL!
2021-07-03 11:22:54	theproffesor	just look at the screenshot of the menu.. It made me throw up a little bit
2021-07-03 11:23:01	Nosrep	what's with the very large stock images
2021-07-03 11:23:05	lopid	looks like it was designed for a mobile phone
2021-07-03 11:23:12	Psi-Jack	Yikes...
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2021-07-03 11:23:40	Nosrep	that's a lot
2021-07-03 11:23:42	Nosrep	of stock iamges
2021-07-03 11:23:55	rascul	they stock all the images
2021-07-03 11:24:02	Nosrep	oh jesus is that the ilinux logo on a clipart backpack
2021-07-03 11:24:24	rascul	jesus isn't here
2021-07-03 11:24:43	Nosrep	jesus died after seeing the website
2021-07-03 11:24:55	rascul	i believe it
2021-07-03 11:25:19	Nosrep	its a 15gb zip file on google drive mmmmm
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2021-07-03 11:25:23	Psi-Jack	Oh wow.. Download from Google Drive? I forsee Google shutting this down.
2021-07-03 11:25:37	<--	sinaowolabi_ (~SinaOwola@102.134.114.1) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-03 11:25:43	Psi-Jack	Some troll distro.
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2021-07-03 11:26:35	Nosrep	that's a lot of randomly capitalized words
2021-07-03 11:26:54	akik	Psi-Jack: why would google shut it down?
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2021-07-03 11:27:04	Guest39	You guys are hilarious!
2021-07-03 11:27:09	Psi-Jack	Because GDrive isn't meant to distribute linux distributions?
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2021-07-03 11:27:19	akik	Psi-Jack: says who?
2021-07-03 11:27:25	Psi-Jack	Says Google./
2021-07-03 11:27:37	Psi-Jack	That's literally against their TOS.
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2021-07-03 11:27:58	necyd	free Linux wow
2021-07-03 11:28:23	Nosrep	on the innovations page
2021-07-03 11:28:33	Nosrep	each of the more buttons aren't lined up with the more buttons around them
2021-07-03 11:28:36	Psi-Jack	What's sad is the first youtube video they have on there, is all about that circle fraking menu, every which way to summon that piece of crap circle menu.
2021-07-03 11:28:36	Nosrep	it hurts
2021-07-03 11:28:49	-->	FlyingWaffle (~FlyingWaf@67.135.89.247) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 11:28:59	Nosrep	also it does look like it's designed for mobile
2021-07-03 11:29:02	Nosrep	(only)
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2021-07-03 11:29:50	Guest39	https://ilinuxos.com/technical-specifications.html
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2021-07-03 11:30:09	rascul	Psi-Jack google drive tos doesn't appear to forbid a 15gb linux distro   https://www.google.com/intl/en/drive/terms-of-service/
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2021-07-03 11:30:43	Nosrep	> Donate to iLinux and get a Gift of REMOTE PREMIUM SUPPORT, 365 Days a Year!
2021-07-03 11:30:45	akik	he just said it's not allowed
2021-07-03 11:30:46	Nosrep	kek
2021-07-03 11:31:15	Nosrep	> CORE:
2021-07-03 11:31:18	Nosrep	Unmodified Debian 10 (Stable) 64 Bit AMD Intely
2021-07-03 11:31:24	Nosrep	*Intel
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2021-07-03 11:31:41	Nosrep	so it's literally just debian with like 500 more packages installed
2021-07-03 11:32:06	<--	xet7 (~xet7@user/xet7) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 11:32:32	djph	and apparently ignoring the FHS
2021-07-03 11:32:37	djph	don't forget that
2021-07-03 11:32:37	Guest39	And a highly customized interface...
2021-07-03 11:32:39	kn100	Probably dumb question, but how do I append to piped output? I.e. imagining I have file1.gz and file2, the output I want is the plaintext of file1, and the plaintext of file2, so I can pipe it into something else.
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2021-07-03 11:33:26	akik	found this in content distribution: "Google Drive allows you to store, share, and stream video content, but should not be used as a replacement for a content distribution network. For large-scale public streaming, YouTube is a better fit. Google Drive will restrict usage when it appears that it's being used for large-scale public streaming. Repeated violations may result in additional action, including
2021-07-03 11:33:27	Nosrep	like the plaintext of file2 appended to the output of file1?
2021-07-03 11:33:32	akik	terminating your account or ability to use Google Drive."
2021-07-03 11:33:48	akik	but that talks about video streaming
2021-07-03 11:34:06	kn100	zcat file1.gz | <some command that takes the output of zcat and appends file2 > concatted Nosrep
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2021-07-03 11:34:21	rascul	zakame where is that?
2021-07-03 11:34:30	gtlsgamr	cat file1 file2 > file3
2021-07-03 11:34:56	rascul	kn100 maybe:  cat <(zcat file1.gz) file2
2021-07-03 11:35:14	rascul	zakame sorry i didn't mean to highlight you
2021-07-03 11:35:17	rascul	akik where is that?
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2021-07-03 11:35:29	akik	https://support.google.com/docs/answer/148505#zippy=%2Ccontent-use-and-submission%2Ccontent-distribution
2021-07-03 11:35:33	iqqdq	anyone know how to see the defaults for a macro in groff
2021-07-03 11:35:56	kn100	rascul that works, thanks!
2021-07-03 11:36:09	rascul	akik ahh i didn't go all the way to the bottom
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2021-07-03 11:36:32	akik	always check the edges
2021-07-03 11:36:32	rascul	akik that does appear to be about videos though
2021-07-03 11:36:59	rascul	but it might be written generic enough to apply to non videos also
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2021-07-03 11:37:59	NthDegree	akik, that's because YouTube-without-ads-for-free would lose them money :p
2021-07-03 11:38:31	NthDegree	if you want a CDN for videos, Vimeo would do the job
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2021-07-03 11:39:13	akik	i was looking for the terms that you couldn't host linux isos on google drive
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2021-07-03 11:39:26	akik	for distribution
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2021-07-03 11:41:38	paulcarroty	gdrive shutdown links with high traffic
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2021-07-03 11:54:00	NthDegree	akik, you can totally host one but they'll lock off access if too many people use it
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2021-07-03 11:54:25	akik	NthDegree: where's the rule, do you know?
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2021-07-03 11:57:04	NthDegree	akik, I can't find the consumer limits but the paid option has the following: https://support.google.com/a/answer/7338880?hl=en
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2021-07-03 11:57:47	akik	750 gigs for paid service isn't that much
2021-07-03 11:57:49	NthDegree	akik, to bypass the download limits, there are proxy services available online which will cache files, that's how well known the limits are in practice
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2021-07-03 11:58:38	NthDegree	The cheapest method might be to use a VPS which claims to have "unlimited transfer" and stick it behind cloudflare
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2021-07-03 11:59:16	NthDegree	then you can offer a BitTorrent-based download with a webseed in addition to HTTPS downloads
2021-07-03 11:59:29	NthDegree	the webseed would be your VPS behind CloudFlare
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2021-07-03 12:00:08	NthDegree	so CF would take most of the hits eventually, meaning your site continues to work without hitting a hidden fair usage policy made up by the cheap VPS provider
2021-07-03 12:00:23	Guest39	https://onionshare.org/
2021-07-03 12:01:37	HumbleGuy	how to change gcc version in debian?
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2021-07-03 12:01:50	HumbleGuy	i have installed gcc 10 and want to switch to it
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2021-07-03 12:02:23	brushu	sd
2021-07-03 12:02:41	ayecee	how did you install it
2021-07-03 12:03:17	brushu	Hi Im kind of nooob in linux so hope some1 can help me , I reinstalled modem manager + gui and now to run it I have to use root permission
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2021-07-03 12:03:33	brushu	how to allow normal user to use it without such permissions
2021-07-03 12:03:54	NthDegree	brushu, which distribution?
2021-07-03 12:03:59	brushu	debian
2021-07-03 12:04:27	-->	cornyst (~SFMF_Chat@ool-457890f2.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:04:34	HumbleGuy	well?
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2021-07-03 12:04:49	ayecee	HumbleGuy: well how did you install it
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2021-07-03 12:05:04	HumbleGuy	ayecee, from source
2021-07-03 12:05:12	ayecee	o_O
2021-07-03 12:05:16	HumbleGuy	what?
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2021-07-03 12:05:27	ayecee	most people don't do that
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2021-07-03 12:05:50	ayecee	i guess do the same thing again with the new version
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2021-07-03 12:05:52	NthDegree	HumbleGuy, have you tried altering your PATH env variable?
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2021-07-03 12:06:41	NthDegree	also I'm hoping you bootstrapped it with a double build or your results might be weird =D
2021-07-03 12:06:43	jggg	What do I do if I'm stuck at message "Finished Update UTMP about System Runlevel Changes."? I trying to
2021-07-03 12:06:51	jggg	install a distro
2021-07-03 12:07:04	HumbleGuy	NthDegree, what it the variable for gcc and where do i change it
2021-07-03 12:07:20	jggg	It's a boot message
2021-07-03 12:07:22	ayecee	change it to what
2021-07-03 12:07:32	jggg	it says [   OK    ] before it
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2021-07-03 12:07:54	HumbleGuy	jggg, hit ok?
2021-07-03 12:08:04	jggg	it's in the terminal
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2021-07-03 12:08:09	HumbleGuy	tab
2021-07-03 12:08:09	brushu	I guess I will have more sucessfull on google , have a nice day.
2021-07-03 12:08:13	jggg	it's booting
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2021-07-03 12:08:21	jggg	tab does nothing
2021-07-03 12:08:29	jggg	it's the Linux bootup
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2021-07-03 12:08:39	jggg	there's no GUI
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2021-07-03 12:08:53	NthDegree	jggg, what does Ctrl+Alt+F2, F3 etc. give you?
2021-07-03 12:08:53	jggg	is there a way to gracefully stop the process?
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2021-07-03 12:09:05	ayecee	stop what process
2021-07-03 12:09:13	NthDegree	also, which distro are you trying to boot?
2021-07-03 12:09:58	<--	LuksNuke (~LuksNuke@94.242.245.63) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:09:58	jggg	https://i.redd.it/elcvnlm3t0971.jpg
2021-07-03 12:10:03	jggg	this is what i mean
2021-07-03 12:10:15	jggg	it's stuck at that msg
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2021-07-03 12:10:21	jggg	Pop!_OS
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2021-07-03 12:10:55	NthDegree	jggg, what graphics card do you have?
2021-07-03 12:10:55	ayecee	seems like it's trying to start the gui
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2021-07-03 12:11:31	jggg	AMD. It already started the GUI for a few seconds. It worked, then after a few secs went back to this terminal
2021-07-03 12:11:45	Psi-Jack	Pop! OS is basically unsupported slightly modified Ubuntu.
2021-07-03 12:11:54	jggg	unsupported?
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2021-07-03 12:12:01	ayecee	which amd
2021-07-03 12:12:03	Psi-Jack	Unsupported by the people that made it.
2021-07-03 12:12:09	jggg	I don't know
2021-07-03 12:12:12	MrElendig	so just like ubuntu
2021-07-03 12:12:12	NthDegree	yeah, it's customised for a specific line of laptops
2021-07-03 12:12:14	jggg	well that's not right
2021-07-03 12:12:19	ayecee	how could you find out
2021-07-03 12:12:24	jggg	it's quite supported
2021-07-03 12:12:31	Psi-Jack	NthDegree: Not, really..
2021-07-03 12:12:42	Psi-Jack	it's customized Gnome with a set of extensions.
2021-07-03 12:12:54	Psi-Jack	That's about the only real "customizations" they did, besides branding.
2021-07-03 12:13:09	jggg	but how can I exit this process?
2021-07-03 12:13:16	jggg	is a force shutdown ok?
2021-07-03 12:13:27	jggg	I need to exit this terminal. what do I do?
2021-07-03 12:13:29	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-03 12:13:29	NthDegree	jggg, try booting in basic graphics mode, if you want to force a shutdown use CTRL+ALT+DEL
2021-07-03 12:13:40	jggg	how do I try that?
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2021-07-03 12:14:01	akik	there's your pop os support https://support.system76.com/
2021-07-03 12:14:04	jggg	also will a shutdown damage anything?
2021-07-03 12:14:07	-->	jetchisel (jetchisel@user/jetchisel) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:14:09	HumbleGuy	oh nvm i forgot to actually install gcc :D
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2021-07-03 12:14:16	jggg	well there's no article about my issue
2021-07-03 12:14:19	NthDegree	jggg, no it won't damage anything to use CTRL+ALT+DEL
2021-07-03 12:14:41	jggg	oh yeah that did something
2021-07-03 12:14:46	jggg	now trying again
2021-07-03 12:15:09	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:15:35	NthDegree	jggg, if you cant get to a GUI on it booting normally, try custom boot options: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Changing_the_CD_Boot_Option_Configuration_Line
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2021-07-03 12:16:08	jggg	okay
2021-07-03 12:16:19	jggg	GUI is there now
2021-07-03 12:16:35	jggg	but as expected it disappeared again
2021-07-03 12:16:46	<--	[jamez] (~james@64.25.196.228) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:16:50	jggg	and same problem..
2021-07-03 12:17:10	<--	Synergiance (syn@lsv1.synerfiles.info) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:17:17	NthDegree	try custom boot options, newer AMD and NVIDIA cards need proprietary drivers to work properly
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2021-07-03 12:18:13	NthDegree	booting into a more basic graphics mode may help you to get things installed and then you can install the proprietary drivers for full support
2021-07-03 12:18:36	jggg	but the thing is Pop!_OS 20.10 worked flawlessly for months
2021-07-03 12:18:48	jggg	this is just an update to 21.04
2021-07-03 12:19:00	rascul	jggg do you get a login prompt if you hit ctrl+alt+f2 ?
2021-07-03 12:19:09	Psi-Jack	Well, Ubuntu has the same issues in-between LTS releases there can be horrible stability issues.
2021-07-03 12:19:15	jggg	in the terminal? no
2021-07-03 12:19:26	Psi-Jack	20.04 == LTS, 20.10, 21.04, 21.11 != LTS
2021-07-03 12:19:41	rascul	Psi-Jack it's all just debian sid anyway
2021-07-03 12:19:42	Psi-Jack	Er, 21.10 LOL
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2021-07-03 12:19:51	Psi-Jack	Well, not quite.
2021-07-03 12:19:57	rascul	modified sid
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2021-07-03 12:20:15	jggg	yeah I don't know I guess I might just stay on 20.04 for now or distrohop
2021-07-03 12:20:17	NthDegree	yeah, Ubuntu non-LTS is a bit.. erm... well Fedora is more stable :P
2021-07-03 12:20:26	rascul	i counted awhile back, about 2/3 of ubuntu's packages were unmodified debian sid packages
2021-07-03 12:20:31	Psi-Jack	Yep. Fedora's 10 times more stable than Ubuntu non-LTS
2021-07-03 12:20:33	rascul	dunno what the number is nowadays though
2021-07-03 12:20:38	Psi-Jack	And THAT says something!
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2021-07-03 12:21:00	rascul	ubuntu lts used to base on debian testing but they changed it to sid in 2014 or so
2021-07-03 12:21:02	NthDegree	Ubuntu LTS being forked from Debian Testing means it's at least most of the way there by the time it lands
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2021-07-03 12:21:08	rascul	NthDegree it's not
2021-07-03 12:21:09	NthDegree	oh... it changed?
2021-07-03 12:21:13	rascul	yes
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2021-07-03 12:21:33	 *	NthDegree removes Ubuntu from his list of distros to bother with
2021-07-03 12:21:50	-->	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:22:01	Psi-Jack	Ubuntu's a decent enough distro, if you stick to LTS only/.
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2021-07-03 12:22:17	Psi-Jack	But, then you don't get the latest and greatest very fast at all, takes 2 years. :)
2021-07-03 12:22:26	-->	TJ- (~root@2a01:7e00:e001:ee00:ea6f:38ff:fed4:3289) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:22:29	Psi-Jack	Sometimes 4 years. Often times even.
2021-07-03 12:22:39	Psi-Jack	But then you're 4 years old already. :D
2021-07-03 12:23:13	Mekaneck	LTS doesn't mean it's more stable than the interim releases, it's just longer supported.
2021-07-03 12:23:24	NthDegree	it used to mean that
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2021-07-03 12:23:32	ayecee	nope
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2021-07-03 12:23:40	Guest39	Ubuntu is a bug factory! :-P
2021-07-03 12:23:42	NthDegree	because it would fork from Debian Testing when it was reasonably stable already
2021-07-03 12:23:46	Psi-Jack	Mekaneck: Yet proof is in the pudding, it's just simply much more stable and supported.
2021-07-03 12:23:49	Mekaneck	interim releases are as stable as LTS releases
2021-07-03 12:23:50	NthDegree	then would polish it for a while
2021-07-03 12:24:00	rascul	if i recall correctly it's about a month from the when ubuntu freezes the debian sid pull to release
2021-07-03 12:24:03	Psi-Jack	Mekaneck: No, they're not.
2021-07-03 12:24:05	ayecee	the longer release cycle maybe gives more time to work out the kinks
2021-07-03 12:24:12	NthDegree	also I got burned by Ubuntu with a dodgy glibc update once
2021-07-03 12:24:20	NthDegree	everything would segfault
2021-07-03 12:24:20	<--	tstruk (~tstruk@50.39.160.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:24:49	Guest39	Ubuntu is always unstable...
2021-07-03 12:24:49	Mekaneck	Psi-Jack: all a matter of personal opinion and experience
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2021-07-03 12:24:57	Psi-Jack	And I have LOTS of experience.
2021-07-03 12:25:05	ayecee	and a LOT of opinions
2021-07-03 12:25:12	 *	NthDegree experience dates back to Breezy Badger
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2021-07-03 12:25:13	Mekaneck	so have i Psi-Jack
2021-07-03 12:25:21	-->	alex3 (~alex3@BSN-77-82-41.static.siol.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:25:23	Mekaneck	been using ubuntu since 2007
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2021-07-03 12:25:29	rascul	i just started using linux yesterday
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2021-07-03 12:25:34	NthDegree	aka Brown Debian lol
2021-07-03 12:25:40	Psi-Jack	I've been using Linux since before Linux 1.0.0 finally released....
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2021-07-03 12:25:57	Guest39	After Ubuntu 10, Ubuntu failed.
2021-07-03 12:26:10	Psi-Jack	There is no 10. :p
2021-07-03 12:26:22	Guest39	10.x ...
2021-07-03 12:26:26	Mekaneck	10.04 and/or 10.10
2021-07-03 12:26:28	ayecee	coincidentally that was around the time Guest39 turned 18
2021-07-03 12:26:34	Psi-Jack	lo
2021-07-03 12:26:35	NthDegree	I think they failed the day Unity shipped lol
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2021-07-03 12:27:02	NthDegree	they had a decent GNOME implementation and decided to erm... "innovate"
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2021-07-03 12:27:14	Guest39	Gnome = Snail
2021-07-03 12:27:22	rascul	i had a few ubuntu coasters
2021-07-03 12:27:26	 *	Psi-Jack loves his Gnome.
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2021-07-03 12:28:19	rascul	2011 ubuntu stopped shipping free coasters   https://ubuntu.com/blog/shipit-comes-to-an-end
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2021-07-03 12:29:24	Mekaneck	Guest39: as in slow? Nah... it runs fine, even on a Pi 4
2021-07-03 12:29:36	NthDegree	rascul, in 2022 Microsoft decides to stop shipping full ISOs :P
2021-07-03 12:29:44	Psi-Jack	Yeah. Gnome is pretty freaking fast for me, has been since 3.x
2021-07-03 12:29:54	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:30:19	NthDegree	and that prediction is likely to come true with Windows 11
2021-07-03 12:30:25	Psi-Jack	I actually felt like KDE was slower, and definitely more memory hungry, and with so many visual bugs
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2021-07-03 12:30:54	Guest39	Try to run Gnome on a Centrino and let's laugh...
2021-07-03 12:30:56	NthDegree	Psi-Jack, it definitely was garbage in the 4.x era. But now it's actually better and faster than GNOME 3.x
2021-07-03 12:31:20	Guest39	In 2022 most Windows users will switch to Linux...
2021-07-03 12:31:20	Mekaneck	KDE Plasma can be as fast if you change the Animation speed
2021-07-03 12:31:28	Mekaneck	lol... yeah right
2021-07-03 12:31:43	Psi-Jack	NthDegree: I tried it just recently. And no, no it wasn't.
2021-07-03 12:32:14	rascul	my desktop environment consists of blackbox, lxpanel, and a session manager type thing i hacked together
2021-07-03 12:32:32	Guest39	An interface can be considered Fast if ti can run Fats on a Pentium 4/Centrino/Atom/Intel Core2Duo.
2021-07-03 12:32:41	rifl	i found window 11
2021-07-03 12:32:50	Guest39	An interface can be considered Fast if it can run Fast on a Pentium 4/Centrino/Atom/Intel Core2Duo.
2021-07-03 12:32:54	NthDegree	I've found GNOME with Xorg uses more CPU than KDE when running Chrome and playing YouTube videos (which is one of my most common use cases)
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2021-07-03 12:33:09	NthDegree	also it seems to use 2GB RAM compared to 1.4GB with KDE
2021-07-03 12:33:20	rascul	https://termbin.com/n13g
2021-07-03 12:33:22	NthDegree	it blew my mind that KDE could be a lighter desktop when I recently discovered that
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2021-07-03 12:33:47	NthDegree	and GNOME with Wayland works great until a web browser is used because hardware acceleration has been broken yet again
2021-07-03 12:33:51	Psi-Jack	NthDegree: I found the opposite myself. but, including the mail stack.
2021-07-03 12:34:02	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e91:6e0e::68cb:c902) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 12:34:10	Psi-Jack	I use Gnome 40 with Xorg. :)
2021-07-03 12:34:12	 *	NthDegree is currently using Debian Bullseye though and will try again with Arch later
2021-07-03 12:34:26	Mekaneck	Psi-Jack: what wasn't. Plasma and fast?
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2021-07-03 12:34:30	NthDegree	that said I'm still undecided on whether to Arch or to Fedora
2021-07-03 12:34:44	rascul	just pick one, it doesn't matter
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2021-07-03 12:34:48	Psi-Jack	Fedora, for sure. If you like to use your system and not maintain your system. :)
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2021-07-03 12:34:55	Mekaneck	i even run Plasma on a Pi 4 and it's smooth as butter
2021-07-03 12:35:46	NthDegree	Psi-Jack, there's that and the SELinux support but I'm hoping Fedora don't do the dickish thing of excluding LSMs like AppArmor and TOMOYO since they'll all be stackable with SELinux by Fedora 35
2021-07-03 12:36:16	-->	tstruk (~tstruk@176.67.86.154) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 12:36:32	NthDegree	that said, Arch doesn't have good SELinux support
2021-07-03 12:36:43	Psi-Jack	I kinda like SELinux, since I took the time to learn it. AppArmor is decent, portable. Tomoyo though.... I wouldn't recommend at all. Not portable at all.
2021-07-03 12:36:45	NthDegree	so I might just do custom kernels and automate them using Fedora's build system
2021-07-03 12:36:56	schillingklaus	hardware acceleration is largely hardware dependent, so it may be broken more ore less badly for various driverrs/gpus
2021-07-03 12:37:19	Nosrep	we talking des
2021-07-03 12:37:21	<--	SkunkyLaptop (~skunky@user/skunky) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 12:37:35	Nosrep	i used to use a old intel core2duo 2gb ram macbook
2021-07-03 12:37:50	Nosrep	xfce was very fast, that's what i used most of the time
2021-07-03 12:38:05	NthDegree	I happen to have a GTX970 which I popped out in favour of intel integrated
2021-07-03 12:38:05	Nosrep	i tried kde once through the liveboot thing, it was pretty slow
2021-07-03 12:38:14	Psi-Jack	heh XFCE is extremely fast, and is always my backup go-to.
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2021-07-03 12:38:28	Nosrep	doesn't look bad either (once you ditch the default theme)
2021-07-03 12:38:43	NthDegree	I can't wait for LXDE-GTK3 to be a thing
2021-07-03 12:38:52	Mental_Inflation	xfce is one of the best for sure
2021-07-03 12:39:06	Mental_Inflation	especially thunar
2021-07-03 12:39:13	Dagmar	NthDegree: THey shouldn't be asked to support security-by-kitchensink
2021-07-03 12:39:36	Dagmar	It's still _bad infosec_
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2021-07-03 12:39:59	NthDegree	Dagmar, they should offer the choice of LSMs, like SUSE, Debian, Ubuntu etc. all do
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2021-07-03 12:40:13	NthDegree	Ubuntu doesn't support TOMOYO but you have the choice to use it still
2021-07-03 12:40:35	NthDegree	and SELinux doesn't scale well, at all
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2021-07-03 12:40:41	Psi-Jack	Heh, have you seen SUSE's pathetic excuse for SELinux "support?"
2021-07-03 12:40:45	Dagmar	These things are all open-source and non-proprietary.
2021-07-03 12:40:57	Dagmar	THer'es nothing stopping you from installing whatever idiotic measure you want.
2021-07-03 12:41:13	Dagmar	...and now you're going to explain what you mean by "SElinux doesn't scale well"
2021-07-03 12:41:47	NthDegree	simple, anyone whos written custom policy can tell you that the moment you add additional labels, you need to go back and alter policy for every single process
2021-07-03 12:42:01	NthDegree	which leads to less than least privileges being applied
2021-07-03 12:42:13	Dagmar	Strangely I have not had to do that
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2021-07-03 12:42:36	Dagmar	...and I do have custom labels.
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2021-07-03 12:43:10	NthDegree	Dagmar, so you've never tried to confine Firefox to allow writing/appending to Downloads, reading from Pictures, Documents and Videos but not the rest of homedir?
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2021-07-03 12:43:34	Dagmar	Why should I?  I don't use Firefox
2021-07-03 12:43:42	NthDegree	swap out Firefox with Chrome then
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2021-07-03 12:43:52	NthDegree	the prinicpal is the same
2021-07-03 12:44:00	schillingklaus	how about waterfox?
2021-07-03 12:44:00	Dagmar	I have, however, written custom labels and policies for a couple of web-based systems I've written.
2021-07-03 12:44:23	Dagmar	The documentation is a horrible mess so it's understandable, but I suspect you're doing something wrong with your policy generation.
2021-07-03 12:44:36	NthDegree	LOL "policy generation"
2021-07-03 12:44:43	gartt	Nosrep: I use fluxbox on Slackware on a Dell craptop with 2 gigs RAM, and it runs beautifully
2021-07-03 12:44:45	Psi-Jack	Heh. I used to run out of RAM all the time, and I have 32GB RAM. Because I was using Firefox. Switching back to Chrome has been great in that regard.,
2021-07-03 12:45:09	gartt	Psi-Jack: So you have just barely enough RAM to run Chrome now :P
2021-07-03 12:45:22	Nosrep	ye the lightweight wms are good
2021-07-03 12:45:38	Psi-Jack	My problem is tabs. I open too many. Chrome makes this difficult by squeezing the tabs down smaller and smaller and smaller...
2021-07-03 12:45:40	Nosrep	i think i briefly switched to i3 on that old macbook
2021-07-03 12:45:40	gartt	I've been wanting to try tiling WMs next
2021-07-03 12:45:49	Guest39	Consider using Dynamic Virtual Memory: https://ilinuxos.com/dynamic-virtual-memory-swap.html
2021-07-03 12:45:51	Nosrep	but shortly after i got a better computer
2021-07-03 12:45:58	Nosrep	xmonad now
2021-07-03 12:45:59	rascul	schillingklaus isn't waterfox owned by an ad company?
2021-07-03 12:46:00	Dagmar	Bombastic nonsense
2021-07-03 12:46:19	schillingklaus	tiling rocks, especially Ratpoison
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2021-07-03 12:46:27	Nosrep	Guest39: it's not that hard to just delete the swapfile and dd a new one
2021-07-03 12:46:30	NthDegree	Dagmar, once you've modified policy which impacts the rest of the refpolicy you'll know what I mean. Adding a policy for apps which write to their own discrete locations not shared by other apps is easy
2021-07-03 12:46:36	quarkyalice	hi, so I am trying to setup Arch Linux ARM on my Raspberry Pi 4 (headless) and after installing NetworkManager I am able to ssh into it and interract with it on the local network, however since it configures resolv.conf incorrectly I can't connect to the internet
2021-07-03 12:46:39	Nosrep	also
2021-07-03 12:46:48	Psi-Jack	you know, though. It's wierd... Company I am starting working for asked me what kind of computer I'd prefer. PC or Mac. And I actually said Mac.
2021-07-03 12:46:49	Nosrep	swap is really slow on slow hdds
2021-07-03 12:46:51	schillingklaus	rascal: i guess so... hard to find something that isn't
2021-07-03 12:47:08	NthDegree	Dagmar, I could be wrong but I believe Casey Schaufler explains the use case for using multiple LSMs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtKodXBxY6U
2021-07-03 12:47:11	Dagmar	"impacts the rest of the refpolicy" <-- duh of course that will require a relabeling, which is part of why there's a bloody command
2021-07-03 12:47:13	Nosrep	swap: 4/10, would not recommend, very slow, helps in a pinch
2021-07-03 12:47:34	rascul	schillingklaus https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/f3gqoc/privacy_browser_waterfox_appears_to_be_sold_to/
2021-07-03 12:47:36	gartt	quarkyalice: Why's it messing up resolv.conf?
2021-07-03 12:47:41	quarkyalice	not sure
2021-07-03 12:47:53	Dagmar	And I'm aware it's "not easy".  I used many hundreds of four-letter words when I first started working with it.
2021-07-03 12:47:58	<--	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-03 12:47:59	Dagmar	But "scaling" is not one of the problems.
2021-07-03 12:47:59	NthDegree	Dagmar, no more than a relabeling. It needs me to alter the policy for every other targeted app which previously used those paths as the label has changed
2021-07-03 12:48:00	quarkyalice	if I do "echo 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf" then networking works
2021-07-03 12:48:11	<--	gschanuel5 (~gschanuel@user/gschanuel) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-03 12:48:22	quarkyalice	*echo nameserver 8.8.8.8 > resolv.conf
2021-07-03 12:48:29	Nosrep	1.1.1.1 better
2021-07-03 12:48:31	Nosrep	i tink
2021-07-03 12:48:35	rascul	quarkyalice what did networkmanager put into resolv.conf?
2021-07-03 12:48:37	gartt	quarkyalice: I believe you can just have 2 lines: the domain and the nameserver and it'll work
2021-07-03 12:48:39	quarkyalice	but letting networkmanager configure it automatically seems to break networking
2021-07-03 12:48:41	Psi-Jack	Heh, I avoid google's DNS like the plague it can be.,
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2021-07-03 12:48:48	quarkyalice	# Generated by resolvconf
2021-07-03 12:48:48	quarkyalice	nameserver 127.0.0.53
2021-07-03 12:48:48	quarkyalice	options edns0 trust-ad
2021-07-03 12:48:50	Dagmar	You _changed_ *all* the policies.  The result should not surprise you
2021-07-03 12:49:01	NthDegree	Dagmar, it's for that reason too that refpolicy doesn't reflect true least privilege in almost every app/daemon it targets. Like allowing execution of anything in /usr/bin even if an app only needs to execute say dash
2021-07-03 12:49:27	rascul	quarkyalice are you using dnsmasq or systemd-resolved?
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2021-07-03 12:49:38	gartt	quarkyalice: What if you just set your domain to your router's name and your nameserver to your router's IP?
2021-07-03 12:49:45	rascul	gartt domain isn't necessary
2021-07-03 12:49:48	quarkyalice	openresolv
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2021-07-03 12:49:50	gartt	rascul: Ah
2021-07-03 12:50:00	Dagmar	NthDegree: That still has nothing to do with scaling
2021-07-03 12:50:22	rascul	quarkyalice openresolv just helps to manage resolv.conf it's not actually a resolver
2021-07-03 12:50:28	NthDegree	Dagmar, yes it does. The more apps you target the more complex all your policies become as they have to deal with more and more labels. That's an issue of scale
2021-07-03 12:50:29	 *	[[R]] resolves rascul 
2021-07-03 12:50:40	Dagmar	No they don't.
2021-07-03 12:50:51	Kevlar_Noir	dracul ?
2021-07-03 12:51:07	Dagmar	Each policy only needs to be as complex as the resources they're granting access to.
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2021-07-03 12:51:16	Dagmar	They do not in any way need to reflect parts of each other.
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2021-07-03 12:51:39	NthDegree	Dagmar, and when resources are shared between apps but you increase granularity for one of the apps which shares said resources?
2021-07-03 12:51:58	Dagmar	What of it?
2021-07-03 12:51:58	quarkyalice	I'm not sure what NetworkManager is using by default
2021-07-03 12:51:59	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: try taking a look at `resolvectl status`.
2021-07-03 12:52:25	Dagmar	Sane people would define one thing for those "shared resources" and invoke that definition from everywhere it's needed.
2021-07-03 12:52:27	quarkyalice	Failed to get global data: The name org.freedesktop.resolve1 was not provided by any .service files
2021-07-03 12:52:32	NthDegree	Dagmar, then your complexity increases for modules targeting both apps, while with other LSMs the complexity only increases for the module in the app which wants a more granular policy
2021-07-03 12:52:46	Dagmar	You're just doing it wrong.
2021-07-03 12:52:58	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: that's a hint at what the problem might be. 127.0.0.53 is usually used where systemd-resolved is activate, but apparently it isn't in your case.
2021-07-03 12:53:03	curdlesnoot	active*
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2021-07-03 12:53:07	NthDegree	Dagmar, no I'm not. I've been writing policy since before refpol was a thing
2021-07-03 12:53:23	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: the question, then, is one of what caused the discrepancy.
2021-07-03 12:53:52	Dagmar	What you're describing doesn't make sense.  There's no reason why changes in policy for one application is going to need to result in changes to policies for anythign else.
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2021-07-03 12:54:57	Dagmar	Ugh it's too eaerly for this mess, I have an inkling I know where you've gone wrong but I need more caffiebve
2021-07-03 12:55:19	rascul	is caffiebve similar to covfefe?
2021-07-03 12:55:31	Dagmar	It's what happens when you don't have any in you
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2021-07-03 12:56:19	quarkyalice	looks like systemd-resolved is failing to start https://gist.github.com/alicela1n/f77b2f0586e8e413d0e20a876765e534
2021-07-03 12:56:36	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: interesting
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2021-07-03 12:57:40	FuriousGeorge	hey all
2021-07-03 12:57:50	aaa__	hello
2021-07-03 12:57:54	rascul	heh the exit code is exit-code
2021-07-03 12:58:05	quarkyalice	and the time and date is off because the Raspberry Pi doesn't have a CMOS, it should set it automatically when it connects to the internet
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2021-07-03 12:58:11	FuriousGeorge	looking for a solution to prevent screen ghosting.  why not a screen saver?  i have a process i want to monitor which is taking days.  i don't want to have to constantly disable it
2021-07-03 12:58:12	NthDegree	Dagmar, if I want to confine an existing app which can currently write to user_home_t but only want to make it able to write to Downloads, I'd need a new label for Downloads like say user_home_downloads_t
2021-07-03 12:58:18	FuriousGeorge	this is a console only thing, by the way
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2021-07-03 12:58:42	NthDegree	Dagmar, that now needs any other app which wants to write to Downloads to have access to write to user_home_downloads_t too
2021-07-03 12:58:55	FuriousGeorge	i just want to kind of scramble the image or something every few minutes, so the pixels that never change can get a chance to change state
2021-07-03 12:59:11	NthDegree	Dagmar, that means I'm now having to alter policies affecting other apps. That isn't the case on other LSMs like AppArmor
2021-07-03 12:59:25	Dagmar	AppArmor works the other way around is why
2021-07-03 12:59:25	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: can you show the unit? systemctl cat systemd-resolved
2021-07-03 13:00:27	Dagmar	...and of course if you change the label in place on part of the filesystem if you want anything to keep the ability to access it you'll have to chnage their policies
2021-07-03 13:00:32	quarkyalice	https://gist.github.com/alicela1n/ee47e5636920bf5f8825ad4412419ba8
2021-07-03 13:00:41	Dagmar	THis isn't a scaling problem.  It's a normal part of mandatory labeling
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2021-07-03 13:01:07	lacroix	curdlesnoot: you don't have a registered nickname on Libera?
2021-07-03 13:01:11	hajonnes	I have a hdd scan running on tty3 and I wonder if someting is wrong. ps at shows S+ (interruptible sleep) on the process. does that mean that it is dead or just that it is waiting for some sub process to end?
2021-07-03 13:01:16	curdlesnoot	lacroix: no, I don't.
2021-07-03 13:01:39	Maya78	waw, so many nerds
2021-07-03 13:01:47	NthDegree	Dagmar, it's a scaling problem when it's such a basic use case which refpol won't implement due to the added complexity :P
2021-07-03 13:01:50	lacroix	curdlesnoot, you wish to register if you have time, at times, this channel will go +r and you won't be able to join
2021-07-03 13:01:57	twainwek	good morning
2021-07-03 13:02:05	rascul	can't ban the account if there's no account!
2021-07-03 13:02:12	Dagmar	No that doesn't make it a scaling problem either
2021-07-03 13:02:12	THE_GFR|W	lol
2021-07-03 13:02:16	curdlesnoot	lacroix: I appreciate the notification. that will probably be the end of it for me then.
2021-07-03 13:02:17	NthDegree	Dagmar, and thus, Casey Schaufler has solved the issue by allowing LSM stacking
2021-07-03 13:02:25	Mekaneck	Maya78: better many nerds than many annyoing trolls :P
2021-07-03 13:02:35	Maya78	Mekaneck truue
2021-07-03 13:02:37	Dagmar	THat makes about as much sense as declaring contigous surfaces to be a problem for euclidian geometry
2021-07-03 13:02:42	Maya78	lacroix tu es français?
2021-07-03 13:02:47	lacroix	curdlesnoot: :) hopefully not
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2021-07-03 13:03:06	aaa__	I just registered on libera. Been mainly chatting on OFTC ever since the Freenode shitshow. But decided to finally check the "new" network out and so far I'm liking it.
2021-07-03 13:03:20	<--	lord| (~lordpipe@user/lordpipe) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-03 13:03:26	schillingklaus	i don't like that emacs as wm requires a mouse for handling floating windows
2021-07-03 13:03:27	quarkyalice	switching to dnsmasq fixed it
2021-07-03 13:03:35	curdlesnoot	quarkyalice: so, the CHDIR error indicates that some directory doesn't exist or cannot be entered. that's as much as I can gather so far. I was hoping that the unit itself might provide some inidcation as to where to look next but nothing leaps out to me there.
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2021-07-03 13:04:23	curdlesnoot	lacroix: seeing as it came up, is there a particular reason? doesn't seem like there's much in the way of spam and such here? or did I simply miss it all.
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2021-07-03 13:04:48	Dagmar	Okay so if you know about layers then this is definitely an expectation problem
2021-07-03 13:05:00	Dagmar	There's no scaling problem there.
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2021-07-03 13:05:14	rascul	lasagna layers?
2021-07-03 13:05:23	NthDegree	Dagmar, what I do know is that stacking LSMs makes it so folks can avoid having to redo an entire policy just to add basic functionality lol
2021-07-03 13:05:25	Dagmar	It's strictly a matter of how labels themselves exist
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2021-07-03 13:05:39	Maya78	god, a lots of potentiel rich nerds
2021-07-03 13:05:48	Dagmar	"redoign an entire policy" is not hard
2021-07-03 13:05:56	Dagmar	There's a reason there's Makefiles involved
2021-07-03 13:06:11	lacroix	curdlesnoot, no.. so far so good - hopefully, we'll continue to naviguate as we are now
2021-07-03 13:06:11	NthDegree	Dagmar, it is when you cater for 30,000 packages
2021-07-03 13:06:22	curdlesnoot	lacroix: ok. fingers duly crossed.
2021-07-03 13:06:30	Dagmar	And yes, when you change a label a bunch of policies rely on _of course_ you have to change them
2021-07-03 13:06:36	lacroix	:)
2021-07-03 13:06:38	Dagmar	_Mandatory_ _Labeling_
2021-07-03 13:07:07	Dagmar	Make is not afraid of 30,000 subtargets.
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2021-07-03 13:08:20	Dagmar	Some human time spent generating the policy the security manager wants is not generally more expensive than the result of throwing in multiple mechanisms
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2021-07-03 13:08:26	Dagmar	_That's_ the thing that "doesn't scale"
2021-07-03 13:08:41	Dagmar	It's an excuse for not doing the thing correctly in the first place.
2021-07-03 13:09:00	<--	Guest38 (~Guest38@193.32.127.237) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-03 13:09:13	Dagmar	...and by "security manager" I do mean person making judgments.
2021-07-03 13:09:44	<--	Inline (~Inline@2a02:908:1252:7a80:c035:deeb:51be:5431) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 13:10:05	Dagmar	That's the difference between defense in depth and kitchensink design
2021-07-03 13:10:56	onelegend	If I created an empty chroot (with the basic file structure) will I need to reinstall the userpsace graphics drivers?
2021-07-03 13:11:01	twainwek	why is mtp support so shait
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2021-07-03 13:11:39	[[R]]	onelegend: huh?
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2021-07-03 13:11:41	onelegend	Like if I were to run OpenCL in a chroot environment.
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2021-07-03 13:11:48	Dagmar	onelegend: Only if you intend to delay loading them until after something's inside the chroot
2021-07-03 13:11:53	[[R]]	onelegend: well if you run a program taht needs opencl libraries, then yes, you need the opencl libraries
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2021-07-03 13:12:06	onelegend	ah I was speaking of the mesa drivers
2021-07-03 13:12:18	[[R]]	is the mesa driver something the opencl program loads?
2021-07-03 13:12:40	onelegend	I believe mesa provides the implementation of OpenCL
2021-07-03 13:12:53	onelegend	I wasn't sure if the chroot could access mesa
2021-07-03 13:13:16	Dagmar	It will need access to shared libs
2021-07-03 13:13:17	hajonnes	My Xorg takes cpu% ~100%. What should I do?
2021-07-03 13:13:40	[[R]]	what do you mena access
2021-07-03 13:13:48	[[R]]	hajonnes: get a better cpu
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2021-07-03 13:14:00	onelegend	hajonnes: what are the specifications of your CPU
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2021-07-03 13:14:28	Dagmar	I mean if /usr/bin/wubba is linked to /usr/lib/lubbadubdub.so then you need /usr/lib/lubbadubdub.so inside the chroot
2021-07-03 13:14:38	onelegend	oh
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2021-07-03 13:14:40	onelegend	I see
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2021-07-03 13:14:47	Dagmar	Drivers are a different matter
2021-07-03 13:15:01	Dagmar	Those should generally already be loaded by the kernel
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2021-07-03 13:15:03	hajonnes	onelegend, I have a intel 6600 ie 4 kernels, and have 32GB memory. never had this before.
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2021-07-03 13:15:27	Dagmar	If it's not interacting with the hardware then it's not exactly a driver in the normal sense
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2021-07-03 13:18:45	hajonnes	can xorg be restarted and will it kill other programs?
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2021-07-03 13:18:57	moo	finally started using wayland and i must say its way less painful than i thought. even steam games via proton work perfectly
2021-07-03 13:18:59	rascul	four kernels?
2021-07-03 13:19:07	[[R]]	rascul: i'll give you five
2021-07-03 13:19:26	Dagmar	hajonnes: You can restart it, but it'll destroy the displays of anything presently attached to it.
2021-07-03 13:19:34	rascul	maybe kernels was supposed to be cores
2021-07-03 13:19:54	hajonnes	rascul, yes
2021-07-03 13:20:01	Dagmar	Whether or not they handle that gracefully or crash on the spot is up to the developer, but it's generally treated by application as an error they shoudln't bother working around
2021-07-03 13:21:05	hajonnes	Dagmar, you mean all gui programs will be terminated and the cli running on tty3 will be fine?
2021-07-03 13:22:59	hajonnes	Dagmar, so I have to restart xwindows /kde plasma as well then?
2021-07-03 13:23:41	hajonnes	rascul, cores... yes they are called kernels in swedish... from sweden.
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2021-07-03 13:24:33	Dagmar	hajonnes: If the tty is actually running on tty3 and _not_ (as you probably have in mind) actually attached to the underside of an xterm which is about to be murdered
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2021-07-03 13:25:03	hajonnes	Dagmar, Yes I'm running a hdd scan on tty3.
2021-07-03 13:25:28	Dagmar	Now is that running under a _non-graphical_ console, or attached to an X display
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2021-07-03 13:25:48	hajonnes	Dagmar, non graphical console.
2021-07-03 13:26:07	Dagmar	Then it'll be fine, just like everything else on the system that's not interacting with X in any way
2021-07-03 13:26:12	hajonnes	tty1 is graphical xwindows...
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2021-07-03 13:26:35	NthDegree	Dagmar, "Some human time spent generating the policy the security manager wants is not generally more expensive than the result of throwing in multiple mechanisms". Until you look at contexts like games_t, where the stacking use case of using AppArmor (a better tool for the job) on top of SELinux makes perfect sense.
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2021-07-03 13:27:25	hajonnes	Dagmar, ok how do I restart all of it? I would like xwindows / kde plasma to return to tty1.
2021-07-03 13:27:27	Dagmar	*sigh*
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2021-07-03 13:27:37	NthDegree	games_t bundles a bunch of different games into one security domain because to separate them would create an astronomical complexity level
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2021-07-03 13:28:38	NthDegree	otherwise they'd be separated by individual game like the rest of targeted policy
2021-07-03 13:28:40	Dagmar	This is part and parcel of what we invented computers for
2021-07-03 13:28:58	Dagmar	If you have a complex set of intersections, the computer deals with it.
2021-07-03 13:29:31	NthDegree	Dagmar, then why aren't they dealt with?
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2021-07-03 13:29:53	Dagmar	In the example from before where you want to separate ~/downloads into a separate context, phrased like that it's obvious.  That directory is no longer of the context it was before.
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2021-07-03 13:30:07	Dagmar	ANything that needs to write to it will also need to be granted that label
2021-07-03 13:30:22	Dagmar	THat's just mandatory labeling
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2021-07-03 13:30:30	NthDegree	yes, which when you scale those changes up to cater for 30,000+ packages, you have an unmanageable policy
2021-07-03 13:30:57	Dagmar	That's like saying the kernel is unmanageable becuase it's handling too many processes
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2021-07-03 13:31:17	NthDegree	so having SELinux deal with core system daemons (like it does now) while having AppArmor target more specialised cases is less complex
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2021-07-03 13:31:41	Dagmar	If your granularity involves 1,000 separate labels, and you have an appliucation that needs access to 400 of them, you're going to have a policy that uses those 400, period
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2021-07-03 13:32:31	NthDegree	if I have 30,000 applications worth of SELinux modules and I need to split up a set of files to use additional labels, I now need to alter the policy for many 1000s of applications in many cases to allow the access to the new label
2021-07-03 13:32:52	NthDegree	while with AppArmor, I just edit the policy targeting the one app
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2021-07-03 13:33:04	NthDegree	that means stacking LSMs now gives folks a net security benefit
2021-07-03 13:33:06	Dagmar	Yes.  You just removed things from their existing context
2021-07-03 13:33:27	Dagmar	i.e., you took them _out_ of the purview of the applications that were previously using them
2021-07-03 13:33:43	Dagmar	It's not a "scaling problem"
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2021-07-03 13:34:34	NthDegree	scale: the size or level of something, especially when this is large:
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2021-07-03 13:34:53	Dagmar	Yes you don't get to complain when you chop somethign in half that it's now two pieces.
2021-07-03 13:35:10	NthDegree	Dagmar, with LSM stacking I don't have to chop anything in half ;-p
2021-07-03 13:35:10	Dagmar	This would be a scaling problem if chopping it in half resulted in _four_ pieces, and then _sixteen_ pieces.
2021-07-03 13:35:31	Dagmar	If you have a "Scaling problem" from this then you have a "scaling problem" from your approach to security management.
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2021-07-03 13:35:58	NthDegree	well currently, most packages aren't confined by SELinux at all because of this issue
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2021-07-03 13:42:34	Dagmar	The reason there's some "broad strokes" in the shipped policies is that it generally doesn't matter if somethign can run all the binaries in /usr/bin or just two of them
2021-07-03 13:43:06	Dagmar	In theory, there is nothing in there which could possible allow privilege escalation or you've probably already failed
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2021-07-03 13:43:30	Dagmar	There's going to be nothing in there that the malicious user couldn't just _type in_ in their current context and run anyway
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2021-07-03 13:45:13	Dagmar	s/possible allow/possibly allow/
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2021-07-03 13:46:23	onelegend	AppArmor gang
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2021-07-03 13:46:51	HumbleGuy	i tried adding kali repositories to debian but can't seem to install kali packages
2021-07-03 13:47:04	HumbleGuy	Unable to locate package
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2021-07-03 13:47:39	[[R]]	ROFL
2021-07-03 13:47:42	[[R]]	excellent idea!
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2021-07-03 13:48:59	akik	can't blame for thinking outside of the box
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2021-07-03 13:51:18	NthDegree	Dagmar, except when we're talking about software potentially being hijacked, it shouldn't be able to execute anything unless it needs to.
2021-07-03 13:51:44	onelegend	containerize everything!!!
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2021-07-03 13:53:00	 *	rascul puts onelegend into a container
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2021-07-03 13:53:26	akik	offline container
2021-07-03 13:53:27	NthDegree	The reason refpol doesn't restrict software to true least privilege is totally because it would make the policy unmaintainable
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2021-07-03 13:54:31	HumbleGuy	oh i forgot to do apt update, anyways...
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2021-07-03 13:57:18	NthDegree	onelegend, I'm not even pro-AppArmor because it has problems of its own. Like not being able to properly isolate instances of the same application into their own security contexts, something SELinux excels at with MCS
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2021-07-03 14:00:07	NthDegree	Folks should be able to stack them, so that way they can have an SELinux baseline backed by an LSM which allows better targeting of least privilege
2021-07-03 14:00:12	NthDegree	then everyone wins ^_^
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2021-07-03 14:04:06	backleet	can someone take a look at my modified openvpn script for tls-v2-encryption? I modified openvpn-install script, but I get TLS handshake failed error when trying to connect
2021-07-03 14:04:27	Dagmar	Meh.
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2021-07-03 14:04:39	backleet	https://dpaste.com/CBW8HRKJG
2021-07-03 14:04:46	Dagmar	For the record, if anyone thinks I'm arguing that NthDegree is dumb, let me make it clear that the answer to that is "no"
2021-07-03 14:04:51	Dagmar	This stuff is "legit hard".
2021-07-03 14:04:56	Dagmar	It's _very_ complex.
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2021-07-03 14:05:38	Dagmar	It's also very annoying, and much like the "time language" or whatever from the movie 'Arrival' some of the things are not even remotely obvious until you've somehow landed on the other side of actually understandint it.
2021-07-03 14:06:00	Dagmar	*I* was pissed the first time I had to define a whole new everything
2021-07-03 14:06:02	lacroix	Dagmar, no one has that impression.
2021-07-03 14:06:17	user217_	hello. Can someone help me to identify app? https://askubuntu.com/users/1177229/user216
2021-07-03 14:06:31	Dagmar	In retrospect, however, it was obvious that this was what needed to happen because it was what I was actually asking the system to enforce
2021-07-03 14:06:46	lacroix	Dagmar, NthDegree like yourself is well known to the channel. His capabilities and knowledge as well. - it was a good discussion I suppose; constructive for sure.
2021-07-03 14:06:56	user217_	https://askubuntu.com/questions/1348615/cant-identify-app
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2021-07-03 14:07:08	Dagmar	lacoix: You would be suprised how many people have a fairly binary idea of what constitutes "smart"
2021-07-03 14:07:33	user217_	*sorry, first link - wrong
2021-07-03 14:07:35	NthDegree	I'm half-tempted to port SELinux refpol to AppArmor because I'm curious to know why Ubuntu et al. hasn't done that already
2021-07-03 14:07:50	Dagmar	Mainly because they work sort of inside-out from one another
2021-07-03 14:08:25	lacroix	Dagmar, I know people well enough, but thank you
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2021-07-03 14:09:18	Dagmar	YOu *can* do that, and it'll even be possible to do a literal 1:1 translation between the rulesets, but now you have two systems doing the exact smae thing
2021-07-03 14:09:34	Dagmar	Folks should probably just package games like Android does with respect to mandatory labeling
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2021-07-03 14:10:48	NthDegree	I'm curious to see if there's anything besides libvirt lockdowns (and possibly separation of users) which will be missing in practice
2021-07-03 14:11:06	Dagmar	Android dev is well ahead of "us" in pure-linux-space with respect to utilizing granular security models
2021-07-03 14:11:41	NthDegree	Android makes a huge sacrifice to do that though
2021-07-03 14:11:47	Dagmar	...which personally I like because they're proving certain things are quite possible
2021-07-03 14:11:49	NthDegree	and it's a sacrifice which reduces security in some ways
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2021-07-03 14:12:26	NthDegree	on Android, many apps bundle private copies of libraries, while on Linux, it's all centralised through distro repositories
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2021-07-03 14:12:48	Dagmar	Yeah but that's mainly because they're targeting multiple generations of the Android OS
2021-07-03 14:12:55	NthDegree	this leads to app developers individually having to update the libraries they bundle with their apps
2021-07-03 14:12:57	Dagmar	...and occasionally because they don't know any better
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2021-07-03 14:13:06	lacroix	backleet: What does the ovpn config that it generates look like?
2021-07-03 14:13:18	Dagmar	But it's not like application 234 can up and touch anything belonging to application 127
2021-07-03 14:13:21	lacroix	backleet: just the block around #410-422 ?
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2021-07-03 14:13:52	NthDegree	It isn't down to API targeting as much as it is Android not shipping all the libs as part of the OS
2021-07-03 14:14:00	Dagmar	...and the blame for fools deploying insecure code and updating it never is on the developers
2021-07-03 14:14:13	onelegend	have you guys used unikernels before?
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2021-07-03 14:14:56	NthDegree	I don't want an OS where I have to trust the independent developers to update their private copies of libraries in a timely manner if I can avoid it
2021-07-03 14:15:25	backleet	lacroix: it has the <ca>, <cert>, <key> and <tls-crypt-v2> sections if that's what you looking for?
2021-07-03 14:15:28	Dagmar	NthDegree: Haveing spent more than a little time fighting that fight, most of the time it comes down to people not using the API calls provided for various reasons, or those code libs would be completely useless to anyone's app but theirs
2021-07-03 14:15:36	c705	/15
2021-07-03 14:15:41	Dagmar	It's like over 80% the first part
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2021-07-03 14:16:06	rascul	onelegend unikernels can be fun
2021-07-03 14:16:07	Dagmar	That they change things so often is kinda obnoxious at times and it's hard to turn the responsibilty of dealing with that over to the IDE
2021-07-03 14:16:16	onelegend	I prefer containers
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2021-07-03 14:16:22	rascul	onelegend i toyed with osv a bit in the past
2021-07-03 14:16:27	backleet	lacroix: somewhat found the issue, thanks!
2021-07-03 14:16:28	onelegend	ah
2021-07-03 14:16:57	lacroix	backleet: I'm glad you did
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2021-07-03 14:17:06	backleet	lacroix: thanks for taking the time man!
2021-07-03 14:17:08	NthDegree	onelegend, I use containers only because most of the security standards customers target allows folks to play "blame the developer" :P
2021-07-03 14:17:33	Dagmar	One good example, qrcode reading.  There's a lib for that that doesn't exist in older android versions.  The build environment will deal with including compatible replacements into a build if-and-only-if you define things in the code and build harness that tells it you're looking to support the older versions and you don't intend to provide that library
2021-07-03 14:17:58	lacroix	backleet: 'woman' and you're welcome :)
2021-07-03 14:18:12	backleet	lacroix: oh my bad, thanks lol
2021-07-03 14:18:28	lacroix	:)
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2021-07-03 14:18:49	Dagmar	The 'pro' there that tips the balance in favor of doing that is that they don't ahev to change anything ever again and if that particular function winds up being moved into a more universally-available library that's in all devices, they especially don't have to deal with it.  It becomes 'future compatible'
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2021-07-03 14:21:48	NthDegree	yeah, the only issue with that is the developer will forget about the old library if the IDE isn't doing the updating for them
2021-07-03 14:22:15	NthDegree	I suppose that's less of an issue with this example because I'm pretty sure the old versions of Android in question are EOL now anyway
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2021-07-03 14:23:57	backleet	lacroix: can you see the line 250-251 where it says opevpn --genkey for server and client
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2021-07-03 14:26:48	Maya78	i wanna be like this
2021-07-03 14:26:49	Maya78	https://www.instagram.com/p/CQRH_ZZBop3/
2021-07-03 14:27:15	backleet	lacroix: lol found the issue, nvm
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2021-07-03 14:33:06	node1	When i'm trying to do rsync to remote host to copy rest of the files. I'm unable to view checksum details(showing 000). I have used `Checksum:%C'` using dry run option. My question is  is it normal? or am i missing something.
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2021-07-03 14:34:02	node1	`rsync --out-format='%i file:%f size:%l Checksum:%C' -nia4v remote@host/file/path    .`
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2021-07-03 14:34:46	node1	I'm interested to match the checksum from the current file and a new file which is on the remote host.
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2021-07-03 14:35:16	node1	current file( remote and local ) just wanted to match the checksum
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2021-07-03 14:38:51	curdlesnoot	robably because you're missing the -c option.
2021-07-03 14:38:54	curdlesnoot	probably*
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2021-07-03 14:40:43	curdlesnoot	also, see the second paragraph under DESCRIPTION in the manual.
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2021-07-03 14:44:16	thermatix	o/
2021-07-03 14:44:22	thermatix	need a little assistance
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2021-07-03 14:44:59	Dagmar	NthDegree: I'd _like_ to believe that most developers will keep track of when it stops being useful to ship a thing, but in practice they tend to not re-evaluate what they're doing for incredibly outdated deices
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2021-07-03 14:45:01	Dagmar	er devices
2021-07-03 14:45:03	thermatix	I'm trying to install regolith but I'm getting this: [ end Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(2, 0) ] - - -
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2021-07-03 14:45:13	moha	Hi
2021-07-03 14:45:14	thermatix	is it a corrupted installer?
2021-07-03 14:45:18	thermatix	or something else
2021-07-03 14:45:26	Dagmar	LIke, I turned off compatibility for Android 4.0 with one of my apps because no one should be using that anymore
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2021-07-03 14:45:35	moha	Do you know any group on IRC channels about cloud and cloud stuff?
2021-07-03 14:45:51	Dagmar	I'm sure it pissed off people running app rating farms
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2021-07-03 14:46:27	moha	I'm gonna learn OStack, do you recommend any (video) course?
2021-07-03 14:46:33	-->	angelsl (~angelsl@user/angelsl) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 14:46:35	moha	OpenStack*
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2021-07-03 14:50:52	onelegend	love openstack
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2021-07-03 14:53:31	curdlesnoot	thermatix: it's either a failure to resolve the device that's presumed to contain the root filesystem or a failure to comprehend the data that the device contains (foreign filesystem, corrupted filesystem etc).
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2021-07-03 14:54:38	thermatix	curdlesnoot I burned the stick using unetbootin, I'm trying universal usb installer atm
2021-07-03 14:54:56	thermatix	question does rufus wipe the whole USB or just the partition?
2021-07-03 14:55:52	curdlesnoot	it's been a while since I've used but, iirc, it does not wipe the entire device, no.
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2021-07-03 14:56:36	curdlesnoot	rather, it should just write whatever it actually needs to write.
2021-07-03 14:56:46	hajonnes	I ran a python command on tty3 that gives a very verbose output: "sudo pypy3 main.py -s sdb.log /dev/sdb | tee output.txt | less" now the less part has frozen but the ppy3 command is still running. Is there a way to unfreeze less also could you speculate why less froze?
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2021-07-03 14:57:02	Dagmar	It's not going to gratuitously zero the remaining 8Gb of a thumbdrive if you're only writing an 8Gb image to a 16Gb stick
2021-07-03 14:57:11	thermatix	oof I never got less to work with streaming data stuff
2021-07-03 14:57:29	Dagmar	hajonnes: Set autoflush on stdout
2021-07-03 14:57:31	thermatix	would `tail -f` work better?
2021-07-03 14:57:31	knocktwice	hajonnes: ctrl-q ?
2021-07-03 14:57:44	Dagmar	It's probably just the usual buffered output
2021-07-03 14:58:04	Dagmar	If you're seeing the occasional half of a line omitted, it's _definitely_ a buffered output problem.
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2021-07-03 14:59:12	hajonnes	Dagmar, everything is just the same as a couple of hours ago. There should be a lot of more outputs, and no ':' just a cursor on an empty line, no prompt.
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2021-07-03 15:01:26	Dagmar	Buffered output is fun
2021-07-03 15:02:54	curdlesnoot	use python's -u option next time, or fix main.py itself - whatever it is.
2021-07-03 15:03:06	curdlesnoot	for now, you'll just have to twiddle your thumbs.
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2021-07-03 15:05:03	Dagmar	As soon as the output buffer fills again, there will be more output
2021-07-03 15:05:12	NthDegree	thermatix, that error almost looks like you have root= set to something wrong
2021-07-03 15:05:36	hajonnes	curdlesnoot, a disk scanning tool, looking for parts of a broken file system.
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2021-07-03 15:06:19	Dagmar	Out of curiousity, why aren't you just using smartctl?
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2021-07-03 15:06:45	NthDegree	I used to get that error all the time when making custom kernels when I used the wrong SATA drivers (this is before AHCI was a thing), so it isn't always corruption that causes it
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2021-07-03 15:07:47	thermatix	well it's coming from the live USB installer so it's wrong it's coming from that, I've found YUMI installer which is the successor to Universal installer so I'm trying that
2021-07-03 15:07:56	Dagmar	Yeah the 'unknown-block' part is kind of  a tell-tale
2021-07-03 15:08:04	hajonnes	Dagmar, can auto flush of stdout be set now. I it is not a smart problem or something like that, it is 7 GB overwrite in the beginning of a drive, the first fragment of $MFT is missing.
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2021-07-03 15:08:34	thermatix	tbh I'm only doing this because as much as I want to use KISS linux, I want something usable now
2021-07-03 15:08:47	Dagmar	hajonnes: Not from outside the process it can't
2021-07-03 15:08:54	Dagmar	Not in any way sane people should be getting involved in
2021-07-03 15:09:12	hajonnes	$MFT = master file table.
2021-07-03 15:09:27	hajonnes	in ntfs.
2021-07-03 15:09:27	thermatix	so I'm trying regolith because it's Ubuntu based and Ubuntu when put on this laptop just worked straight up without issue
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2021-07-03 15:10:19	thermatix	and it comes configured with I3 which I love the look of (I would like to use something lighter but my laptop is pretty beefy so it should be fine)
2021-07-03 15:10:33	hajonnes	Dagmar, thanks anyway :). What would you use to get ouput scrollable on a tty?
2021-07-03 15:10:43	thermatix	tmux
2021-07-03 15:10:55	thermatix	or ctrl+r?
2021-07-03 15:10:58	hajonnes	thermatix, does that work on tty?
2021-07-03 15:11:00	thermatix	wait that's history
2021-07-03 15:11:02	thermatix	tmux?
2021-07-03 15:11:11	thermatix	tbh I've never used it on TTY
2021-07-03 15:11:15	Dagmar	hajonnes: MAinly I'd just do the thing curdlesnoot said.  It shoudl eliminate the problem
2021-07-03 15:11:17	thermatix	but
2021-07-03 15:11:22	curdlesnoot	tmux isn't going to coerce programs into unbuffering themselves, though.
2021-07-03 15:11:28	thermatix	true
2021-07-03 15:11:37	NthDegree	thermatix, if you can't get that to boot, might be worth trying Lubuntu and putting i3 on to that
2021-07-03 15:11:38	thermatix	but it cann allow you to kill the pane at least without killing the TTY
2021-07-03 15:11:39	curdlesnoot	don't get me wrong, it's useful. but ... as concerns the problem at hand.
2021-07-03 15:11:50	thermatix	so you can experiment faster
2021-07-03 15:11:59	Dagmar	hajonnes: basically, interpreters _try_ to guess at what they're outputting to and in some cases may enable autoflush on stdout just to reduce the number of newbie support complaints
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2021-07-03 15:12:20	Dagmar	hajonnes: sudo makes it hard for that stuff to tell if it's writing to an output file or someone's console that's being viewed in realtime
2021-07-03 15:12:25	curdlesnoot	but, even then, it's often based on the logic of whether stdout is a tty or not. and, of course, being a pipe, it isn't anyway.
2021-07-03 15:12:44	curdlesnoot	it's one of those situations where you're going to have to ask for what you want, most likely.
2021-07-03 15:13:00	thermatix	wooot
2021-07-03 15:13:05	thermatix	yumi seems to have worked
2021-07-03 15:13:08	Dagmar	When autoflush _isn't_ enabled on a filehandle, whatever write() calls are made to it just wind up putting that data into a _buffer_ until the buffer reaches a certain size and it gets flush()d which actually makes the write happen
2021-07-03 15:13:21	Dagmar	...or the application itself calls flush() on stdout
2021-07-03 15:13:22	curdlesnoot	thermatix: very good
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2021-07-03 15:14:28	thermatix	and the touchpad works!
2021-07-03 15:14:40	thermatix	I got so fedup with the I2C thing not working
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2021-07-03 15:16:04	hajonnes	Dagmar, so use "pypy3 -u"?  is that autoflushing stdout buffers?
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2021-07-03 15:16:17	thermatix	ok, just found it is shows the keyboard shortcut next to the thing you want to run, that is awesome and so useful for someone as forgetful as me
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2021-07-03 15:16:26	curdlesnoot	well, if it's like python proper, it should.
2021-07-03 15:16:35	curdlesnoot	presumably, pypy3 has a man page.
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2021-07-03 15:17:01	user217_	what is pastebin hat put output  derectly from terminal to online raw ?
2021-07-03 15:17:35	curdlesnoot	user217_: there's a popular one in the /topic
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2021-07-03 15:17:41	hajonnes	curdlesnoot, pypy tries to implement all the options. So if it exists it would be the same.
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2021-07-03 15:18:15	curdlesnoot	hajonnes: that's what I would assume, yes. I don't profess to being a python expert but it would have been surprising to find otherwise. in any case, it surely has a man page.
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2021-07-03 15:18:44	hajonnes	curdlesnoot, yes :)
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2021-07-03 15:19:50	hajonnes	curdlesnoot, so then less would get the buffers and would print out continuously.
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2021-07-03 15:20:32	hajonnes	Btw, do you know If one can see what process is making Xorg cpu ~100%, so I can kill it?
2021-07-03 15:20:44	curdlesnoot	tee doesn't buffer its output so yes, I would expect so.
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2021-07-03 15:21:49	hajonnes	curdlesnoot, thanks for your help. :)
2021-07-03 15:21:57	curdlesnoot	sure
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2021-07-03 15:22:35	hajonnes	Has anyone experienced that nvidia proprietary driver is buggy?
2021-07-03 15:23:05	hajonnes	can it be the cause that xorg is cpu ~100%
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2021-07-03 15:23:55	NthDegree	hajonnes, yes to the point where I stopped using my NVIDIA GTX 970
2021-07-03 15:24:24	hajonnes	NthDegree, I have gtx 970 as well I think, what are you using now?
2021-07-03 15:24:56	NthDegree	hajonnes, I pulled my 970 out and started using the integrated Intel HD 530
2021-07-03 15:25:31	NthDegree	I will probably buy whatever Linus Torvalds chose for his overkill rig when GPU prices start to go back to sane levels
2021-07-03 15:25:33	jim	NthDegree, that's working pretty well?
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2021-07-03 15:25:57	hajonnes	NthDegree, ok did you try the open source driver before that (do not remember the name)?
2021-07-03 15:26:14	jim	torvalds plays video games?
2021-07-03 15:26:26	NthDegree	I think he just put a GPU in because he could
2021-07-03 15:26:40	NthDegree	yeah I tried nouveau and it put my monitor into a mode which caused temporary burn-in/damage
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2021-07-03 15:27:40	NthDegree	at that point I decided to just use the integrated GPU, I'll try the NVIDIA proprietary drivers again once they release the next major branch
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2021-07-03 15:28:00	NthDegree	by then they should have fixed the choice between tearing or crap performance on general (non-3D) workloads
2021-07-03 15:28:11	budlight	you running 460.80 nvidia driver
2021-07-03 15:28:36	hajonnes	budlight, yes.
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2021-07-03 15:29:02	hajonnes	but I do not know if it is nvidia driver that causes my xorg to malfunction.
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2021-07-03 15:29:33	NthDegree	hajonnes, try nouveau and see if you get the same result as a test run
2021-07-03 15:30:00	NthDegree	also did you enable forced compositing pipeline by any chance?
2021-07-03 15:30:18	budlight	i have it no problems with it
2021-07-03 15:30:24	hajonnes	NthDegree, what is that?
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2021-07-03 15:30:34	thermatix	i managed to crash the installer >_<
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2021-07-03 15:30:44	jim	what are the possibilities... since you have a card in there, it could be the driver or the card... because when you run a different card (not nvidia), the problem goes away?
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2021-07-03 15:31:57	hajonnes	budlight, I have a dual monitor setup and from time to time I have to restructure the monitors in the xserver settings. the driver seems to forget, also I can not use my second monitor other than in landscape mode. so it is not perfect.
2021-07-03 15:32:30	NthDegree	hajonnes, that's fixable by running the NVIDIA X Settings app as root and saving the config back so it's all remembered
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2021-07-03 15:32:53	NthDegree	it will overwrite your xorg configuration but put the right stuff in there so it's remembered
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2021-07-03 15:33:42	hajonnes	NthDegree, thanks for the tip. how do I run it as root if I run it form the launcher, is it possible or should I use cli?
2021-07-03 15:34:09	NthDegree	hajonnes, I'd just crack open a terminal and see if you can do it from within sudo -i
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2021-07-03 15:36:10	NthDegree	jim, I blame the drivers every time. I got bitten by crashes on my GeForce 2 MX 400 back in the early 00s, got bitten with crashes on my 6200SE TurboCache a few years later due to incompatibilities with ATI IXP 200 chipsets... yeah it's almost always the drivers :p
2021-07-03 15:36:29	thermatix	it seems It's a good thing I was smart enough to set a /home partition so any personal stuff I want to keep should be ok
2021-07-03 15:36:37	thermatix	thank you past thermatix
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2021-07-03 15:36:54	hajonnes	NthDegree, ok I'll try that. lately I have ran a lot of overnight scans of the hdd, when I wake the computer up in the morning my xwindows/ plasma is broken, I see the pointer but the background is black, that is why I run the scans in tty now. Could the problem be related to the xorg cpu ~100%?
2021-07-03 15:36:55	thermatix	NthDegree drivers & firmware
2021-07-03 15:36:58	thermatix	both are a pain
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2021-07-03 15:37:36	NthDegree	hajonnes, oh god you're using KDE with the proprietary drivers? If you managed to not have constant visual glitches, that's an improvement over how things used to be
2021-07-03 15:38:15	hajonnes	NthDegree, haha... what should be used in kde? nuevo?
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2021-07-03 15:39:21	hajonnes	NthDegree, also I'm a newbe so I'm open for suggestions, what desktop flavor would you suggest?
2021-07-03 15:39:34	NthDegree	hajonnes, https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/the-situation-on-kde-kwin-plasma-performance/57811
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2021-07-03 15:40:46	NthDegree	hajonnes, also try this too: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NVIDIA/Troubleshooting#Avoid_screen_tearing_in_KDE_(KWin)
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2021-07-03 15:43:19	NthDegree	Experiment a bit and find what works for you is my advice on this one. Using nouveau drivers sucks from a performance perspective when it comes to 3D workloads like games and I'm fairly sure my crappy Intel 530 outperforms my 970 with nouveau drivers
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2021-07-03 15:44:33	hajonnes	NthDegree, ok. I do not think I use 3D much, no cad or games. but for 2D is it still a big difference?
2021-07-03 15:45:33	NthDegree	I'd say when it works, it works good enough for 2D
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2021-07-03 15:46:00	NthDegree	the particular monitors I use end up in weird and wonderful flicker-inducing modes
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2021-07-03 15:46:36	NthDegree	but old monitors of past have worked just fine with nouveau drivers for casual web browsing and such
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2021-07-03 15:48:40	hajonnes	NthDegree, my monitors are pretty new. 4k 40" and 1080p 24". well I will see. btw do you know how to reboot xorg? I must reboot the whole xwindows, btw is it called xwindows or plasma?
2021-07-03 15:48:50	Dagmar	There's also that the hybrid Intel/nVidia setups are damned.
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2021-07-03 15:49:05	Dagmar	God has cursed them.
2021-07-03 15:49:27	hajonnes	Dagmar, I run stationary... I do not think I have optimus.
2021-07-03 15:49:34	jim	please use 'by the way', not 'btw'
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2021-07-03 15:50:09	NthDegree	hajonnes, probably easiest to restart the PC. Plasma is the desktop environment but Xorg (X11/xwindows) is the display server
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2021-07-03 15:51:05	hajonnes	jim, is it some netiquette, because btw is less typing... i.e. easier for me to type.
2021-07-03 15:51:21	NthDegree	It's a historical standard to cater for non-native speakers
2021-07-03 15:51:53	jim	that would be the usual reason people give
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2021-07-03 15:52:15	hajonnes	NthDegree, jim, ok thanks for the heads up, I'm swedish by the way. :)
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2021-07-03 15:55:44	hajonnes	NthDegree, I can not restart my computer since I'm running a scan on tty3 which takes ~15h. but now it is standing still since xorg takes up all the resources.
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2021-07-03 15:56:01	NthDegree	hajonnes, ah in that case, restart the display manager
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2021-07-03 15:56:25	NthDegree	hajonnes, which distro are you on at the mo?
2021-07-03 15:57:18	hajonnes	NthDegree, kde-neon. ubuntu base.
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2021-07-03 15:59:00	NthDegree	hajonnes, have a peek at systemctl, it'll either be sddm or lightdm most likely
2021-07-03 15:59:34	hajonnes	cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager gives /usr/bin/sddm
2021-07-03 15:59:59	hajonnes	NthDegree,
2021-07-03 16:00:05	NthDegree	hajonnes, try: service restart sddm
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2021-07-03 16:00:19	NthDegree	it'll kill the GUI and reload back at the login screen if that's the name of the unit file
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2021-07-03 16:00:49	hajonnes	NthDegree, ok I will, Thanks!
2021-07-03 16:01:00	hajonnes	see you later then...
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2021-07-03 16:01:23	NthDegree	if that fails try: systemctl | grep Display
2021-07-03 16:01:37	NthDegree	that should list the service unit file associated with the display manager with any luck
2021-07-03 16:02:00	Sauvin	"at the mo"? Does "mo" serve really good food or have distinctive designer drinks?
2021-07-03 16:02:09	Sauvin	Is it a chain with a store near me?
2021-07-03 16:02:12	NthDegree	sorry Sauvin :$
2021-07-03 16:02:15	hajonnes	NthDegree, ok :)
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2021-07-03 16:02:46	NthDegree	Sauvin, mo has plenty of duff beer ready and waiting for you ;-)
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2021-07-03 16:03:01	Stereoid	uahhh its full in here O_o
2021-07-03 16:03:02	Sauvin	Sounds great, but what and where is it!?
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2021-07-03 16:03:55	NthDegree	Sauvin, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUsymq-7fOQ
2021-07-03 16:04:00	lacroix	It's a nice place there serves beer
2021-07-03 16:04:08	lacroix	that* ;)
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2021-07-03 16:04:15	Stereoid	anyone firm with serial connection Arduino<-> bash/gambas
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2021-07-03 16:05:13	jim	I remember hooking an arduino to a usb port, that was a year or two ago
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2021-07-03 16:06:19	Stereoid	@jim the problrm i have is i can send and recieve data via minicom, but if i try echo  or send from gambas i reset the arduino, iam totally out of ideas.
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2021-07-03 16:07:45	Stereoid	and of course the arduino is connectet to /dev/ttyUSB0
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2021-07-03 16:10:21	Stereoid	i guess i have to give up this projetc then if no one can help me out.
2021-07-03 16:10:22	akk	Sounds like you need somebody familiar with gambas (whatever that is, google says it's Spanish garlic shrimp :-), not arduino.
2021-07-03 16:10:46	Stereoid	@akk nope, simply shell/bash will help much!
2021-07-03 16:11:02	akk	I've been able to talk to arduinos using a python-serial script.
2021-07-03 16:11:24	akk	You say it works via minicom, so it seems like your problem is with this gambas thing.
2021-07-03 16:11:35	Stereoid	AND the bash ^
2021-07-03 16:12:18	Stereoid	echo "hello world" >/dev/ttyUSB0 resets the arduino, but why ? tryed stty for configuring..
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2021-07-03 16:13:33	Stereoid	forget about gambas, it has a nice shell binding, so if iam able to use bash i can implement in gambas ^
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2021-07-03 16:14:41	akk	It might be doing something like changing the port speed when you echo >, which might be resetting the arduino.
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2021-07-03 16:14:42	Stereoid	ohh about gambas : http://gambas.sourceforge.net/en/main.html  this i meant
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2021-07-03 16:14:57	mattf	is there a way to smooth scroll with xdotool?
2021-07-03 16:15:02	akk	I know in my python script I have to connect at a specific speed, which I don't think bash > does.
2021-07-03 16:15:54	Stereoid	with stty you can set speed at will afaik. i can see that something is arriving the arduino ( rx led blinks )
2021-07-03 16:16:24	mattf	or is there some little tool to scroll nicely with keyboard
2021-07-03 16:16:36	Stereoid	iam not familar with python -.-
2021-07-03 16:16:56	Stereoid	more likely perl..
2021-07-03 16:18:34	Stereoid	@mattf scroll where ?
2021-07-03 16:19:22	akk	Stereoid: googling [arduino shell redirect resets ] gets a bunch of hits that agree that it happens, and give a wiring workaround (tie the reset pin high with a resistor)
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2021-07-03 16:19:33	mattf	Stereoid: emulate mouse scorll anywhere
2021-07-03 16:19:48	akk	also various other discussion of it, I haven't read them all but you might find a software solution in one of those pages.
2021-07-03 16:19:59	Kyv	mattf: you can do that with xdotool.
2021-07-03 16:20:07	mattf	not smoothly afaik
2021-07-03 16:20:23	Stereoid	@akk really ? i must miss them all -.- or just searched for wrong pattern. sry.
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2021-07-03 16:20:58	Kyv	okay
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2021-07-03 16:21:29	Stereoid	@akk ok i have some to read.. :) thank you for the hint.
2021-07-03 16:21:43	Stereoid	but..
2021-07-03 16:22:10	Stereoid	why does minicom work flawless then ?
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2021-07-03 16:22:30	akk	Because it sets the speed once and then stays connected, I'd guess?
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2021-07-03 16:24:53	Stereoid	hmm yes it does, but i altered the scetch to see whats incoming, hard to descripe but something IS incoming just resets the arduino, and i have no idea why, okok i read the links you send :)
2021-07-03 16:24:57	akk	https://forum.arduino.cc/t/linux-redirect-to-nano-on-dev-ttyusb-corrupts-loses-beginning-of-data/624429/2 (one of the pages from that google search) says opening the serial port activates DTR.
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2021-07-03 16:25:38	akk	and there are links later in that thread to a couple of pages that seem to discuss it in more detail.
2021-07-03 16:26:00	Stereoid	@akk OMG i search since weeks for someone like you who gibes me the hints i need!
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2021-07-03 16:26:32	Kyv	NthDegree: kind of late on the topic but the nouveau driver is unusable on many nvidia cards. Even those like the Keplers which are 'old' enough to be at the end of their support life. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau-kepler-2021&num=1
2021-07-03 16:26:33	akk	Apparently they do this to make it easier to load sketches without needing to press the reset button manually.
2021-07-03 16:26:39	Stereoid	i was close to abandon the whole project..
2021-07-03 16:27:01	Kyv	On the contrary the open driver causes constant underperformance and crashes.
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2021-07-03 16:27:38	Stereoid	@kyv killed my system because of trying to connect 3th monitor :D
2021-07-03 16:27:56	Kyv	It wasn't me!
2021-07-03 16:28:01	lacroix	Stereoid, that's because of the serial
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2021-07-03 16:28:24	Stereoid	haha BUT no system=no coffee!! repaired it in 10 minutes :P
2021-07-03 16:28:40	lacroix	did you try to set it like it is a arduino code: void setup() { Serial.print("INFO HERE");
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2021-07-03 16:29:30	Stereoid	of course, the code sends all traffic back to serial
2021-07-03 16:29:37	lacroix	the echo "info here" is not going to work like that because it will just do it 1 time. It is not in a loop and it doesn't know in what Serial it is working
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2021-07-03 16:30:14	lacroix	you need to set something along the lines of: Serial.begin(9600);
2021-07-03 16:30:41	lacroix	did you try Serial.echo("INFO HERE"); ?
2021-07-03 16:30:53	Stereoid	@lacriox did all that, and with minicom communication works fine.
2021-07-03 16:31:05	Stereoid	serial echo ? oh no did not ^
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2021-07-03 16:34:19	lacroix	coffee at midnight.. good or bad.
2021-07-03 16:34:28	Stereoid	good!
2021-07-03 16:34:51	Stereoid	becauseyou are immune to coffeeine :P
2021-07-03 16:35:12	<--	user217_ (~andrii@128-124-36-119.mobile.vf-ua.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-03 16:35:19	lacroix	well, that will be a decaf but still :)
2021-07-03 16:36:12	Dagmar	Filthy abominations
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2021-07-03 16:37:57	c705	0d:ec:af:c0:ff:ee
2021-07-03 16:38:26	Stereoid	^^ keyboard of a real programmer : 0 1 enter :P
2021-07-03 16:38:35	lacroix	Stereoid: show me your code
2021-07-03 16:38:35	Kyv	that is nice we will hang it on the refrigerator
2021-07-03 16:38:49	lacroix	I'll test it in my arduino.
2021-07-03 16:39:02	Stereoid	wait a minute.
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2021-07-03 16:39:53	lacroix	c705, lovely
2021-07-03 16:40:13	immibis	useless fun fact: if you ask df to display inodes in human-readable form (-ih) it displays inodes in binary units. kibinodes, mebinodes
2021-07-03 16:40:24	Stereoid	https://pastebin.com/6CraS9k5   its a modified sample.
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2021-07-03 16:41:48	lacroix	Stereoid, all right
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2021-07-03 16:44:06	lacroix	you are looking for ON/OFF msg ?
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2021-07-03 16:44:45	lacroix	message (just so Sauvin doesn't ask me if it's a pub)
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2021-07-03 16:45:57	Sauvin	Thank you for that. :D
2021-07-03 16:46:42	jim	Stereoid, here's a handy pastebin alternative, if you have nc installed, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command, for example ls -CF if you run it like this: ls -CF | nc termbin.com 9999
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2021-07-03 16:47:10	Stereoid	nc ? netcat ?
2021-07-03 16:47:17	jim	yeah
2021-07-03 16:47:30	Stereoid	never used it yet :)
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2021-07-03 16:48:02	jim	give it a shot... try: echo hi | nc termbin.com 9999
2021-07-03 16:48:02	<--	justinf210 (~justinf21@192-230-160-245.3rivers.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 16:48:09	jim	then look at the link you get
2021-07-03 16:48:11	Hypervisor1	Hi
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2021-07-03 16:48:16	jim	hi
2021-07-03 16:48:54	Hypervisor1	Im using Lubuntu!
2021-07-03 16:48:56	Hypervisor1	LTS version
2021-07-03 16:48:59	Hypervisor1	Its awesome
2021-07-03 16:49:04	jim	do you like it?
2021-07-03 16:49:08	<--	bodhi (~bodhi@c-73-93-87-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-03 16:49:16	tusko	do u?
2021-07-03 16:49:29	Hypervisor1	Yes its awesome
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2021-07-03 16:49:34	jim	tusko, Please spell out u as you... it would help folks who are here and are new english speakers, some don't hear u as a rhyme for you (similar for other forms of abbreviations: y for why, 4 for for, 2 for to, r for are, etc)
2021-07-03 16:49:36	Hypervisor1	Its up to date, light weight
2021-07-03 16:49:54	Hypervisor1	LDXE-LXQt based Desktop Envrionment
2021-07-03 16:49:56	Hypervisor1	fast
2021-07-03 16:49:58	Hypervisor1	Updated
2021-07-03 16:50:16	lacroix	Stereoid: you can do: Serial.println("Hello World!");
2021-07-03 16:50:19	tusko	jim how fast do you type
2021-07-03 16:50:46	jim	really fast... and those macros come out faster than I type :)
2021-07-03 16:51:57	tusko	woah
2021-07-03 16:52:02	lacroix	Stereoid: with the .println you show the text in the screen console. Is this what you are asking?
2021-07-03 16:52:46	Stereoid	@lacroix no, if i send anything with echo i reset the arduino, with minicom it works all fine.
2021-07-03 16:52:49	jim	is that java?
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2021-07-03 16:53:46	jim	Stereoid, so that must mean that echo does something else in addition
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2021-07-03 16:54:58	lacroix	Stereoid, fyi, your code looks ok to me... and load with no problem in the arduino.
2021-07-03 16:55:15	lacroix	what arduino you are using ?
2021-07-03 16:55:30	Stereoid	nano
2021-07-03 16:55:48	Stereoid	the arduino is not the problem, the bash is ^
2021-07-03 16:57:43	lacroix	I know what is the issue
2021-07-03 16:58:01	lacroix	try this: stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 -hupcl
2021-07-03 16:58:14	<--	takimbal (~takimbal@linuxhq/tkimball) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-03 16:58:24	lacroix	echo 1 > /dev/ttyUSB0
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2021-07-03 16:59:03	Stereoid	okokok wait, let me try, but i have to bring some beer elsewhere :)
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2021-07-03 16:59:26	lacroix	bring the beer later on
2021-07-03 16:59:34	lacroix	try that now, given that I need to head to bed soon.
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2021-07-03 17:00:43	Stereoid	iam back 1 minute ^
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2021-07-03 17:02:08	Stereoid	the f*cking f*ck it works !
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2021-07-03 17:02:33	Stereoid	it works ! iwant to cuddle you now !!
2021-07-03 17:02:47	Stereoid	but.... WHY ?
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2021-07-03 17:03:19	Kyv	sir this is a Wendy's
2021-07-03 17:03:22	Stereoid	the only difference i see is the option -hupcl
2021-07-03 17:03:47	Stereoid	OMG it works !
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2021-07-03 17:05:18	jim	lacroix, what does that stty invocation do?
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2021-07-03 17:06:12	Stereoid	wanna know to :)
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2021-07-03 17:07:32	sysRPL	has anyone here tested copilot with vscode yet?
2021-07-03 17:07:50	lacroix	Stereoid, you needed to comunicate with the arduino
2021-07-03 17:07:55	lacroix	as simple as that :)
2021-07-03 17:08:08	Stereoid	but why is this working now ?
2021-07-03 17:08:21	Stereoid	i want understand
2021-07-03 17:08:25	lacroix	checked your code, it was ok.
2021-07-03 17:08:35	lacroix	the on/off on the arduino gave me a hint where was the issue
2021-07-03 17:08:47	Stereoid	jajajaja but where ?!
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2021-07-03 17:09:54	jim	well maybe if we look at man stty, and try to find hupcl in that page, it might give at least a clue about what's going on
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2021-07-03 17:10:32	Stereoid	@jim meeh you are right. i give it a try, but.. van you.. please.. ? : )
2021-07-03 17:10:34	lacroix	Stereoid: with these flags you do
2021-07-03 17:10:54	lacroix	echo "input something" >&3 cat <&3 exec 3>&-
2021-07-03 17:11:12	lacroix	so this means you communicate with arduino
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2021-07-03 17:11:26	lacroix	and wait for arduinos initialization
2021-07-03 17:12:10	Stereoid	but how it works, give me a hint ?
2021-07-03 17:12:19	lacroix	I just told you.
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2021-07-03 17:12:29	lacroix	didn't I jim?
2021-07-03 17:12:38	Stereoid	uhhh much to read.. yes you did ^
2021-07-03 17:13:03	lacroix	that's it for me tonight.. I'm off to bed
2021-07-03 17:13:14	Stereoid	a cery good night i wish
2021-07-03 17:13:18	lacroix	good night everyone and enjoy your saturday night
2021-07-03 17:13:56	Stereoid	you guys solved my problem ! now i can take on with my problem.
2021-07-03 17:14:00	jim	well :) I don't understand it very well yet... what's the difference between hupcl and -hupcl
2021-07-03 17:14:25	jim	lacroix,, night
2021-07-03 17:14:39	Stereoid	@jim, yeah iam a mechanic.. so its a bit hard to understand this and that..
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2021-07-03 17:15:11	lacroix	Stereoid, there are guys and girls around here
2021-07-03 17:15:36	Stereoid	oh oh sorry i mean guys and girls and between and so :P
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2021-07-03 17:15:52	lacroix	:)
2021-07-03 17:15:59	Stereoid	how many girls you know, hanging around in IRC ?
2021-07-03 17:16:10	lacroix	many
2021-07-03 17:16:15	Stereoid	uhh ?
2021-07-03 17:16:19	jim	yeah and it wasn't me, it was pretty much all lacroix
2021-07-03 17:16:42	jim	lacroix, do you read la croix at all?
2021-07-03 17:16:47	lacroix	and some are arduino lover too :)
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2021-07-03 17:17:34	tusko	I'm a chick
2021-07-03 17:17:43	tusko	so girls++
2021-07-03 17:18:04	tusko	jim, have you seen the la croiz generator?
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2021-07-03 17:19:21	tusko	http://174.138.65.150/my-lacroix
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2021-07-03 17:21:40	jim	tusko, oh, those guys are getting sued all over the place
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2021-07-03 17:22:06	jim	they're in big trouble for lying about what they put in their water
2021-07-03 17:22:12	tusko	Yes, but the world needed crawfish boil water lacroix
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2021-07-03 17:24:29	Dagmar	Now people really _can_ have "Like a strawberry, but with a low battery" flavor
2021-07-03 17:25:00	-->	hajonnes (~hajonnes@194.103.95.208) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 17:25:12	tusko	I've heard that some of those claims are misrepresented or overblown.
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2021-07-03 17:26:07	tusko	Like that lacroix contained linool which is used in insecticide. But it is also found in plants. The same as cyanide is found in peaches and cherry pits.
2021-07-03 17:26:18	Dagmar	Yeah I'm pretty sure most of their flavors are just water
2021-07-03 17:26:35	Aurora_v_kosmose	I recall there being some article mentioning ongoing work about hyperthreading and program grouping for safet while not losing too much performance, does anyone know anything pertaining to this topic?
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2021-07-03 17:27:07	Aurora_v_kosmose	*safety  - It was something regarding the Linux scheduler iirc
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2021-07-03 17:29:56	AsenM	Hello, folks! How its going?
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2021-07-03 17:31:15	Stereoid	iam the luckiest white old man this evening. :)
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2021-07-03 17:31:53	AsenM	@Stereoid, how come?
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2021-07-03 17:32:18	ayecee	heart didn't stop beating!
2021-07-03 17:32:40	Stereoid	@AsenM they solved my long term problem :)
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2021-07-03 17:33:54	AsenM	not sure who are they, but glad they did :)
2021-07-03 17:34:30	Stereoid	jim and lecroix
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2021-07-03 17:37:11	AsenM	I actually see many familiar faces here looks like a lot of folks moved on from freenode
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2021-07-03 17:40:30	jim	Stereoid, all I did was ask questions, you were the one who answered, and lacroix proposed the solutions
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2021-07-03 17:41:15	Stereoid	but the result was that it works. so you are involved to :)
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2021-07-03 17:42:12	jim	yep, that's generally what I do, ask questions, which tend to inspire and give needed hints to those who know the answers
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2021-07-03 17:44:47	jim	which, maybe 10% of the time, is me, so I'll answer myself, but not so often
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2021-07-03 17:58:57	Stereoid	OMG, i did not figured out why, but it works flawless now.
2021-07-03 17:59:08	Stereoid	thank you all !
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2021-07-03 18:01:29	Stereoid	sp i maybe give some back, and solve a problem you have :)  i use openSuse since 6.4
2021-07-03 18:02:07	Stereoid	oh andi want system V back
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2021-07-03 18:02:35	 *	[[R]] gives Stereoid a time machine
2021-07-03 18:02:44	Stereoid	:)
2021-07-03 18:03:09	Stereoid	i mean system V is much better then systemD
2021-07-03 18:03:14	[[R]]	Stereoid: is it?
2021-07-03 18:03:21	Stereoid	it is
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2021-07-03 18:03:24	[[R]]	if you say so
2021-07-03 18:03:30	[[R]]	the entire world seems to disagree
2021-07-03 18:03:46	Stereoid	what matters the world ? :P
2021-07-03 18:04:03	akik	most people use the windows os
2021-07-03 18:04:19	Stereoid	meeh i did too...
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2021-07-03 18:04:34	AsenM	there are still people that live in the past
2021-07-03 18:04:45	[[R]]	like napoleans uncle
2021-07-03 18:04:49	Stereoid	iam one of them
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2021-07-03 18:05:03	[[R]]	progress be damned!
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2021-07-03 18:06:12	Stereoid	its not very comfortable to edit binarys using binay edit tools, or just type in clear text.
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2021-07-03 18:06:19	[[R]]	edit binaries?
2021-07-03 18:06:31	Stereoid	service...
2021-07-03 18:06:34	[[R]]	huh?
2021-07-03 18:06:47	vitorgonc	how to edit binary
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2021-07-03 18:07:34	Stereoid	in system V i add a thing to runlevel 5 , in systemD i have to make somthin.. dont knoe..
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2021-07-03 18:07:43	[[R]]	"make somthin"?
2021-07-03 18:07:52	Stereoid	too much beer ^ sry
2021-07-03 18:08:04	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-03 18:08:05	vitorgonc	why would you want to edit a binary when you can get the source
2021-07-03 18:08:12	AsenM	like 99% of people claiming that initd/systemv whatever other than systemd is better are actually too lazy to learn systemd
2021-07-03 18:08:19	[[R]]	vitorgonc: hes just rambling incoherently about nonsense
2021-07-03 18:08:26	[[R]]	AsenM: you don't say!
2021-07-03 18:08:57	vitorgonc	i just think systemd is bloated but it's fine and all
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2021-07-03 18:09:01	Stereoid	the beer is .. dont know the word.
2021-07-03 18:09:02	Dagmar	AsenM: That means the remaining 1% are probably right
2021-07-03 18:09:05	[[R]]	how is it "bloated"?
2021-07-03 18:09:21	Dagmar	AsenM: But feel free to keep trying to impress the kiddies with the bombast
2021-07-03 18:09:24	vitorgonc	it consumes waay more ram on my minimal setup with gentoo
2021-07-03 18:09:32	vitorgonc	percentage-wise
2021-07-03 18:09:43	[[R]]	rofl
2021-07-03 18:09:49	AsenM	@Dagmar, not trying to impress anyone mate
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2021-07-03 18:09:59	vitorgonc	it isn't that much of a deal to most people but it is to me
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2021-07-03 18:10:15	Stereoid	dont like sysD ok ?
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2021-07-03 18:10:56	akik	systemd
2021-07-03 18:10:58	akik	say systemd
2021-07-03 18:11:05	Stereoid	kkk
2021-07-03 18:11:06	vitorgonc	i prefer runit but openrc is fine to me too
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2021-07-03 18:12:16	Stereoid	who wants to beat me in a round chess ?
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2021-07-03 18:12:31	AsenM	Dagmar, what i said is bombast in any way?
2021-07-03 18:12:45	Dagmar	Feel free to look the word up
2021-07-03 18:13:07	ayecee	what, and lose the rage boner?
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2021-07-03 18:13:55	 *	esselfe bloats [[R]]
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2021-07-03 18:14:32	AsenM	i don't get why you guys go so offensive, I didn't claim either one to be better just pointed some facts
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2021-07-03 18:14:47	Dagmar	No, you didn't.  You speculated and you insulted.
2021-07-03 18:14:53	Dagmar	Those are not "facts"
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2021-07-03 18:15:13	AsenM	who i insulted and how? i'm really sorry if i insulted anyone (i didn't mean to)
2021-07-03 18:15:18	Dagmar	Scroll up and read what you typed
2021-07-03 18:15:23	AsenM	please take my apology
2021-07-03 18:15:31	Stereoid	you can play chess with me , and anyone can watch, anyone interestet ?
2021-07-03 18:15:32	ayecee	your apology has no value if you don't know what it's for
2021-07-03 18:16:46	Dagmar	Surely one point three million lines of code can't have any (more) security vulnerabilities in it
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2021-07-03 18:17:16	AsenM	so you believe majority of people that dislike systemd can actually give you reasonable arguments to dislike systemd?
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2021-07-03 18:17:37	Dagmar	Why should I care what the majority think
2021-07-03 18:17:47	[[R]]	AsenM: its not the unix way!
2021-07-03 18:17:48	 *	[[R]] giggles
2021-07-03 18:18:11	Dagmar	The majority of users can't rebuild a kernel reliably without having the previous kernel configuration around
2021-07-03 18:18:15	Stereoid	SystemD is not my favourite..
2021-07-03 18:18:22	ayecee	Stereoid: shush
2021-07-03 18:18:29	Stereoid	:D
2021-07-03 18:18:30	Dagmar	They're not required to have that level of expertise
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2021-07-03 18:18:49	Dagmar	THey are, however, expected to listen to the lessons learned and imparted by the people who wrote the system they use
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2021-07-03 18:19:11	Stereoid	need a playmate in chess..?
2021-07-03 18:19:13	ayecee	eh. that's a high bar.
2021-07-03 18:19:30	<--	tstruk (~tstruk@176.67.86.152) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-03 18:20:14	[[R]]	like hugh heffner?
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2021-07-03 18:21:16	Stereoid	https://www.schach-spielen.eu/game/wd18p912  give you a "ruck" :)
2021-07-03 18:21:21	ayecee	eh, he's alright
2021-07-03 18:21:37	[[R]]	hugh heffner slept with like a billion wome
2021-07-03 18:21:46	ayecee	big if true
2021-07-03 18:21:58	[[R]]	yes, he must have been big
2021-07-03 18:22:07	esselfe	[[R]]: you're big
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2021-07-03 18:26:30	Stereoid	c-mon a round chess ?
2021-07-03 18:26:38	ayecee	dude.
2021-07-03 18:26:43	ayecee	seriously.
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2021-07-03 18:27:56	vitorgonc	##chess
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2021-07-03 18:29:07	vitorgonc	how do i start to audit source code?
2021-07-03 18:29:20	phogg	vitorgonc: what are you looking for?
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2021-07-03 18:29:34	phogg	also, ##programming is a ting
2021-07-03 18:29:34	vitorgonc	wdym
2021-07-03 18:29:48	[[R]]	vitorgonc: step 1 download it step 2 read it step 3 profit
2021-07-03 18:29:50	ayecee	please spell that out. they're picky about that here.
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2021-07-03 18:30:16	phogg	vitorgonc: if you don't know what you're trying to learn there is no point in an audit. What if you did a financial audit of your security log files? It's meaniongless.
2021-07-03 18:31:15	jim	vitorgonc, what's the purpose of the audit you want to do?
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2021-07-03 18:32:17	vitorgonc	i want audit the programs i use, to see if they really are safe
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2021-07-03 18:32:38	tomreyn	vitorgonc: start at line 1
2021-07-03 18:32:59	phogg	vitorgonc: safe in what sense?
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2021-07-03 18:33:14	phogg	vitorgonc: are you looking for bugs that might cause loss of data? Are you looking for security vulnerabilities?
2021-07-03 18:33:25	vitorgonc	both
2021-07-03 18:33:26	phogg	vitorgonc: are you looking for places where they could enter an infinite loop?
2021-07-03 18:33:37	phogg	vitorgonc: are you looking for anything that could cause a crash?
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2021-07-03 18:33:47	ayecee	vitorgonc: that's challenging. you kind of have to enumerate all the ways code can be unsafe, and then check your code to see if it does those
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2021-07-03 18:34:15	phogg	vitorgonc: for some specific types of problem you can try using static code analysis to help identify issues, for others you can employ fuzzers. For most everything else you must read the code and understand it.
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2021-07-03 18:34:35	phogg	s/issues/potential issues/ # false positives are common
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2021-07-03 18:35:09	ayecee	static code analysis is a pretty good start. it takes someone else's list of ways code can be unsafe, and checks for those things.
2021-07-03 18:35:52	phogg	vitorgonc: so, first, pick *ONE* specific type of problem. Be as narrow and specific as you can. Then, read all of the code in the program. Or, read the code by following the path of execution for a particular run of the program. Keeping your specific problem in mind, ask yourself if it could occur as you reach each statement.
2021-07-03 18:35:54	Hypervisor1	nice
2021-07-03 18:36:08	<--	Umbire (~UmbireThe@user/umbire) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-03 18:36:14	Dagmar	...and once you've identified a probem you flog the coders until they learn from that mistake.
2021-07-03 18:36:18	<--	galex-713 (gal@portable.galex-713.eu) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-03 18:36:18	ayecee	or write code to read the code
2021-07-03 18:36:19	<--	spyroboy (~spyroboy@user/spyroboy) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 18:36:24	jushur	you start by learning to code.. understand you code. try to understand other peoples code. depending on your level of learning new things you get good at it, can take a few weeks or a few years. or never happen..
2021-07-03 18:36:47	phogg	Dagmar: if you identify a what you think is a problem report it, then listen to the reply in case the original author knows something you don't
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2021-07-03 18:37:09	Dagmar	That doesn't happen often anymore, but point taken
2021-07-03 18:37:16	ayecee	that sounds like a lot of investment
2021-07-03 18:37:22	phogg	Dagmar: for you I'm sure not, for a newbie probably a lot
2021-07-03 18:37:26	Dagmar	Usually by the time I'm ready to report something I've gone way into OCD-land looking at the problem
2021-07-03 18:37:53	phogg	ayecee: "if it were easy everyone would do it"
2021-07-03 18:37:58	phogg	and then there would be no bugs
2021-07-03 18:38:01	ayecee	true
2021-07-03 18:38:10	gry	vitorgonc: dont think there is threshold of 'i can code well', everyone can do it. each other 'well' is 'i did what i wanted'. just decide what to do and plan ahead. what distro are you on?
2021-07-03 18:38:13	jacke	vitorgonc: valgrind is a good tool'
2021-07-03 18:38:35	Sauvin	Writing code is easy. VERY easy. Writing GOOD code is an art, and like all arts, require mastery.
2021-07-03 18:38:38	Dagmar	gyr: Oh no
2021-07-03 18:38:39	<--	bouncy (~ben@user/benoit) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-03 18:38:41	gry	oi
2021-07-03 18:38:42	phogg	gry: good code is the code write, bad code is what other people write (if I may paraphrase Oscar Wilde)
2021-07-03 18:38:44	Dagmar	Yeah what Sauvin said
2021-07-03 18:38:49	vitorgonc	i have artix, installing gentoo
2021-07-03 18:38:51	phogg	s/code write/code I write/
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2021-07-03 18:38:54	gry	vitorgonc: nice
2021-07-03 18:39:00	Dagmar	Just because the computer doesn't burst into flame after you've invoked your program doesn't mean you wrote good code
2021-07-03 18:39:08	Nosrep	wrong
2021-07-03 18:39:14	gry	vitorgonc: gentoo is source based. what are you interested in auditing?
2021-07-03 18:39:18	Sauvin	I give you ME as an example. I can write code. Notice the missing adjective?
2021-07-03 18:39:23	Dagmar	Well, unless the point of the program was to set the machine on fire
2021-07-03 18:39:43	phogg	Dagmar: most programmers seem to come from the "if if runs without crashing it must be functionally correct" school. Or, worse, the "if it compiles it must be functionally correct" school.
2021-07-03 18:39:52	vitorgonc	some small open source programs my friends share with me
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2021-07-03 18:40:08	gry	vitorgonc: are they large? did you read their source code before?
2021-07-03 18:40:12	AsenM	phogg, +1
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2021-07-03 18:40:25	phogg	vitorgonc: it's not a bad idea. I generally read install scripts from third parties before executing them, because such things often run as root and are notoriously badly written.
2021-07-03 18:40:46	vitorgonc	not that much, never opened the repo to see the code itself
2021-07-03 18:40:49	AsenM	phogg, do you read all install scripts?
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2021-07-03 18:40:55	phogg	vitorgonc: when I do that I am just looking for basic sanity and good practices so I can get a sense of whether it might blow up in my face, and where
2021-07-03 18:40:56	vitorgonc	just clone and make install
2021-07-03 18:40:57	jacke	...again valgrind is a goood tool...mem leak etc...it catches most
2021-07-03 18:41:07	phogg	AsenM: not all, it depends on my trust level with the originator
2021-07-03 18:41:19	phogg	AsenM: and whether I have some reason to suspect a problem in advance, of course
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2021-07-03 18:41:52	drew	I am trying to use badblocks to test the disks in my machine. I tested the nvme storage successfully, but when I try to test my larger disks, I get "Value too large for defined data type invalid end block (11718885376): must be 32-bit value"
2021-07-03 18:42:11	Dagmar	drew: Badblocks is no longer particualrly relevant on modern drives
2021-07-03 18:42:19	Dagmar	Use the smart long test.
2021-07-03 18:42:27	phogg	I've met some Java programmers from the "no crash must mean it works" school, and they tend to believe that Main() { try{ ... } catch { } } is the solution to robustness.
2021-07-03 18:42:30	drew	with smartctl?
2021-07-03 18:42:41	Dagmar	Notably badblocks SHOULD NOT be used on flash media because it just burns up writes
2021-07-03 18:42:49	Dagmar	drew: yes
2021-07-03 18:43:03	jacke	Java is meant for drinkn
2021-07-03 18:43:07	phogg	running a smart test is easy, understanding the test result is hard
2021-07-03 18:43:18	 *	kfrench tests phogg.
2021-07-03 18:43:20	phogg	jacke: s/meant for/will lead to/ ftfy
2021-07-03 18:43:25	Dagmar	There is that, but writing all over the entire media is kind of evil
2021-07-03 18:43:41	Dagmar	You wind up having to go back and trim the entire thing later one way or anothre
2021-07-03 18:43:42	 *	phogg fails to assert that true is true
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2021-07-03 18:44:39	phogg	Dagmar: no argument there, it's just too bad that reading smart data is such a black art
2021-07-03 18:44:42	Dagmar	drew: Also, what badblocks reports on flash media can't be relied upon because block 12345 is not necessary (read: "seldom ever") the same actual part of the media twice in a row.
2021-07-03 18:45:02	Dagmar	phogg: Well, usually it's a matter of "It's in perfect shape" or "Time to replace this" with no in-between
2021-07-03 18:45:10	drew	gotcha
2021-07-03 18:45:16	drew	I am just running out of ideas for what could be wrong with my machine lol
2021-07-03 18:45:27	Dagmar	What were the symptoms again?
2021-07-03 18:45:29	drew	I'll try the smart long tests, as I've only done the short in the past
2021-07-03 18:45:38	Dagmar	...and pray you don't have a Hubble problem
2021-07-03 18:45:39	phogg	Dagmar: and yet it doesn't come back with a "replace this" / "don't replace this" answer. You have to know what you're looking at to figure that out.
2021-07-03 18:46:05	drew	It freezes after a while of uptime and dmesg traces usually have something about pages
2021-07-03 18:46:12	drew	https://superuser.com/questions/1660509/linux-freezes-despite-no-errors-in-memtest86-stress-or-smartctl
2021-07-03 18:46:14	phogg	but otherwise yes, if you just want good/not  good then it's not so mysterious
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2021-07-03 18:46:29	drew	most recent post I've made with links to other posts ^
2021-07-03 18:46:32	phogg	drew: freeze as in total lockup and hard reboot required?
2021-07-03 18:46:38	drew	phogg: yes
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2021-07-03 18:47:40	phogg	oh, I see that post isn't just related: it's actually you
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2021-07-03 18:48:50	jacke	vitorgonc: cppcheck is for static code analysis, vlagrind fordynamic...if you dont code cpp but java or whatever ur effed either way...garbage collection effs you program..
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2021-07-03 18:49:18	Dagmar	I'd go into the BIOS/UEFI and disable any "automatic" overclocking the board might be doing
2021-07-03 18:49:52	Dagmar	I've seen that go wrong so many times I just don't leave it on ever anymore
2021-07-03 18:50:18	Dagmar	If the standard for "stable" there means "crashes 2-5 times a year" that's 2-5 times more crashes than I want
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2021-07-03 18:51:22	Dagmar	Past that it's generally time for some binary testing using known good hardware
2021-07-03 18:51:29	Dagmar	Swap out parts until the problem goes away
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2021-07-03 18:51:55	AsenM	start from PSU :)
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2021-07-03 18:52:09	vitorgonc	Dagmar: did you mean turbo/precision boost?
2021-07-03 18:52:12	Dagmar	Yes, it sucks but there's generally the _least_ expensive way to find out if you've got a bad PSU that's occasionally spiking 15v on the 12v line or something else mad
2021-07-03 18:52:38	Dagmar	vitorgonc: I have no idea what every vendor calls their "special sauce" overclocking methods
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2021-07-03 18:52:46	phogg	drew: so it blows up trying to execute a program, and you theorize that it may be a bad disk? Maybe (not my area), but I don't know that a failed disk read would look like that.
2021-07-03 18:52:48	Dagmar	I just know they all push the hardware closer to instability
2021-07-03 18:52:52	AsenM	nowadays they mostly put cheap psu in prebuild computers (if you have one)
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2021-07-03 18:53:55	vitorgonc	i just overclock it myself (if Intel wants to)
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2021-07-03 18:54:33	AsenM	oh actually he doesn't have a cheap psu
2021-07-03 18:54:36	ayecee	reminds me of "Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands."
2021-07-03 18:54:43	Dagmar	hahah
2021-07-03 18:55:01	phogg	ayecee: nice
2021-07-03 18:55:43	ayecee	any idiot can buy a banger of a PSU, but it takes an engineer to buy a power supply that barely works
2021-07-03 18:55:54	phogg	AsenM: oh my, a user who comes prepared with ALL of the background info. Pleasant!
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2021-07-03 18:56:53	AsenM	phogg, yeah i actually just read his post and saw the hardware spec
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2021-07-03 18:58:12	AsenM	not  sure if segotep is reliable psu brand anyway
2021-07-03 18:58:23	phogg	I have no data on that
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2021-07-03 18:58:27	ayecee	i didn't even know segotep was a psu brand
2021-07-03 18:58:41	Dagmar	Looking over that SO post, I can only suggest something like using last year's build of Fedora or Ubuntu to get an older kernel into play
2021-07-03 18:58:50	Dagmar	It _might_ be a result of some regression
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2021-07-03 18:59:05	Naan	hello I'm struggling to understand why bash is running from a mounted volume: https://paste.linux.chat/?d767ba68126f2dc2#5R52a7Q55CV4XqqgR6qCf668S1W2AsD6tCFNVtp3bSbz
2021-07-03 18:59:26	Dagmar	Also, it's no more expensive to try that test than downloading an ISO and flashing it to a thumbdrive so you can run it off that for a night or two
2021-07-03 18:59:35	ayecee	Naan: the mounted volume is its current working directory
2021-07-03 18:59:48	Dagmar	Naan: People typically have all sorts of weird problems trying to run things from unmounted disks
2021-07-03 18:59:51	Stereoid	one problem solved, but got another very different, cant connect 3. monitor
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2021-07-03 19:01:00	Naan	but I'm in "/" on one ssh session and "/home/ubuntu" on another whereas the volume is mounted to "/minecraft"
2021-07-03 19:01:14	phogg	Naan: It doesn't look like /minecraft is unmounted.
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2021-07-03 19:01:21	ayecee	Naan: which ssh session is that shell attached to?
2021-07-03 19:01:35	Dagmar	Naan: So kill that bash process and find out what explodes and dies
2021-07-03 19:01:37	Naan	that one is attached to "/"
2021-07-03 19:01:47	phogg	Naan: does pid 1479 have any child pids? What are its parents?
2021-07-03 19:02:07	ayecee	Naan: no, the shell where the cwd is /minecraft, which ssh session is that attached to
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2021-07-03 19:02:49	Naan	oh I don't know how to see that
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2021-07-03 19:03:13	Dagmar	Use ps and look at the PPID and work upstream
2021-07-03 19:03:13	Naan	that response was to ayecee ^
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2021-07-03 19:03:26	ayecee	in the output of "ps aux | grep 1479", there will be a tty or pty on the line
2021-07-03 19:03:37	ayecee	compare that to the tty or pty in the output of w
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2021-07-03 19:04:30	ayecee	for me, that mostly happens when i was in a directory and ran su or sudo
2021-07-03 19:04:50	drew	phogg: honestly I just ran out of things to test and someone in that SU thread suggested it
2021-07-03 19:04:52	Naan	oh dear I think I did run sudo su and switched back to sudo ubuntu
2021-07-03 19:04:57	Naan	maybe that did it
2021-07-03 19:04:57	ayecee	so the su or sudo shell is in one directory, but the shell that launched it remains in the original directory
2021-07-03 19:05:05	ayecee	that would do it, yeah
2021-07-03 19:05:10	drew	I was nervous for the Segotep PSU, but it's apparently a popular brand in the East and I got a gold rated one
2021-07-03 19:05:15	phogg	Naan: if you have it try: pstree 1479
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2021-07-03 19:05:32	Naan	it says: bash───sudo───su───bash───sudo───su───bash───pstree
2021-07-03 19:05:46	AsenM	ayecee, is W present on all modern distros?
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2021-07-03 19:06:26	drew	Dagmar: I'm pretty confident I don't have any of the automatic overclocking stuff on, as I've had to double-check bios settings a couple of times now
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2021-07-03 19:06:46	ayecee	AsenM: mostly yes, but i haven't done a comprehensive survey ;)
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2021-07-03 19:06:50	drew	I would test with other hardware... I just don't have any
2021-07-03 19:07:00	Naan	thank you everyone <3
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2021-07-03 19:07:00	phogg	Naan: might be more useful with pstree -p, the goal is to find the ancestor process and then examine it.
2021-07-03 19:07:06	drew	and it feels bad to buy stuff just to test and then return it if it didn't fix the problem
2021-07-03 19:07:15	ayecee	Naan: so when you do that sudo thing, it launches a new shell, it doesn't just switch the user.
2021-07-03 19:07:35	ayecee	Naan: it would be good to get into the habit of exiting that shell instead of switching again with sudo
2021-07-03 19:07:40	Naan	yep I understand what's happened
2021-07-03 19:07:40	AsenM	drew, borrow from a friend of yours?
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2021-07-03 19:08:31	drew	that could be worth a shot
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2021-07-03 19:15:37	kish`	how do i do wget but with ssl
2021-07-03 19:15:49	Dagmar	Give it an https url
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2021-07-03 19:15:59	kish`	that enough?
2021-07-03 19:16:31	phogg	kish`: so long as wget was compiled with ssl support, yes
2021-07-03 19:16:49	kish`	says HTTP request setn, awaiting response... 200 OK
2021-07-03 19:16:55	kish`	is that SSL?
2021-07-03 19:16:57	phogg	sounds like it worked
2021-07-03 19:17:09	kish`	fear in me is that it just used http
2021-07-03 19:17:15	tusko	your ssl
2021-07-03 19:17:17	[[R]]	what url did you use?
2021-07-03 19:17:17	Dagmar	It definitely won't use plaintext when it's been given an HTTPS URL
2021-07-03 19:17:18	phogg	kish`: Most likely. You would have to examine it at a lower level to know.
2021-07-03 19:17:27	kish`	[[R]], https url
2021-07-03 19:17:31	[[R]]	then it used ssl
2021-07-03 19:17:31	Dagmar	The _protocol_ is still HTTP is why it says that
2021-07-03 19:17:45	kish`	okay, tcpdump says it did port 443
2021-07-03 19:17:48	phogg	although, point of order, it's using TLS not SSL.
2021-07-03 19:17:49	kish`	good!
2021-07-03 19:17:54	[[R]]	phogg: you're a TLS
2021-07-03 19:18:03	phogg	there is no more SSL (we all desperately hope)
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2021-07-03 19:19:02	drouch	Libera is run by opressive staff whom wish to further the cancel culture, social justice warrior, and critical race theory that is making them the very fascists they say they hate, they create the censorship they say they guard against.  Come to OUCHnet! Open Uncensored Chat Host Network, a network where your channel is your castle!  Server staff do not interfere with channels, do not censor channels, and
2021-07-03 19:19:08	drouch	do not steal channels.
2021-07-03 19:19:10	Dagmar	drouch: Go away
2021-07-03 19:19:11	drouch	irc://us.ouch.chat:+6697 irc://eu.ouch.chat:+6697 irc://asia.ouch.chat:+6697 irc://irc.ouch.chat:+6697 port 6667 for non-SSL
2021-07-03 19:19:19	[[R]]	ROFL
2021-07-03 19:19:21	[[R]]	!ops drouch spam
2021-07-03 19:19:24	[[R]]	does that still work?
2021-07-03 19:19:27	jim	got it
2021-07-03 19:19:42	jim	wait, lemme see
2021-07-03 19:19:47	Dagmar	I'm sure they can't possibly speak for the operators of that chat network
2021-07-03 19:19:56	jim	yep, sure does
2021-07-03 19:20:00	Dagmar	because then I'd have an excuse to break out some code from the 90's
2021-07-03 19:20:06	[[R]]	"No spamming / flooding the network"
2021-07-03 19:20:09	[[R]]	talk about irony...
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2021-07-03 19:20:35	jim	is irony an alloy of steely?
2021-07-03 19:20:46	phogg	jim: definitely
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2021-07-03 19:21:06	[[R]]	jim: steely dan?
2021-07-03 19:21:10	-->	v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 19:21:32	jim	love that band... they got the best session players
2021-07-03 19:21:40	phogg	Ouchnet spam is happening back on freenode, too. Not a great way to build a network.
2021-07-03 19:21:55	kish`	adding network printer I get "CUPS server error" "There was an error during the CUPS operation: 'server-error-internalerror'
2021-07-03 19:21:56	kish`	bleh
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2021-07-03 19:22:50	onelegend	https://twitter.com/RSAConference/status/1411399342167109634
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2021-07-03 19:23:32	[[R]]	is that some kind of a joke?
2021-07-03 19:23:38	Dagmar	onelegend: It's a shame to see RSA stooping to that level
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2021-07-03 19:24:52	Umbire	https://twitter.com/admford/status/1411456540221997056 lol. lmao
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2021-07-03 19:25:17	[[R]]	haha
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2021-07-03 19:25:57	Dagmar	Wow they were quick to suss that out
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2021-07-03 19:26:23	[[R]]	"Rohan Hall is a 30-year veteran in the blockchain"
2021-07-03 19:26:26	[[R]]	blockchain is 30 years old?
2021-07-03 19:27:08	ayecee	dabbles in time travel too
2021-07-03 19:27:24	ayecee	maybe he's a 30-year veteran and is also involved in blockchain
2021-07-03 19:27:38	[[R]]	he bio doesn't talk anything of service to country
2021-07-03 19:28:09	Dagmar	Astonishingly people still listen to that chump who keeps trying to claim he's Nakamoto
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2021-07-03 19:28:13	ayecee	they also serve who stand and wait
2021-07-03 19:29:00	jacke	WorldOfWarCraft?
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2021-07-03 19:31:31	akik	ouch :)
2021-07-03 19:31:53	Dagmar	I guess maybe he's trying to celebrate the 4th early by publicly blowing up the conference's reputation?
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2021-07-03 19:36:11	johnnyapol	they gotta see if any of the creators of the concept of the linked list are still alive
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2021-07-03 19:36:21	johnnyapol	then they can claim 70+ years of experience with blockchain
2021-07-03 19:36:23	SpeakerToMeat	is there any bash internal or common cli command I can use to pipe lines to which will group all equal lines (I can pre-sort), and tell me "line x: y instances" ?
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2021-07-03 19:36:48	ayecee	sort can do that, i think with the -c option
2021-07-03 19:36:56	SpeakerToMeat	thanks
2021-07-03 19:37:23	ayecee	oh wait. it won't give a line number, but it'll tell you how many lines are the same
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2021-07-03 19:38:12	ayecee	maybe that still works, it was a bit ambiguous
2021-07-03 19:38:33	jim	and if you put line numbers on them, they'll be different (and so something like a sort -u won't work)
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2021-07-03 19:38:40	phogg	SpeakerToMeat: uniq -c
2021-07-03 19:38:45	ayecee	that's the one
2021-07-03 19:38:52	phogg	but it won't give line number either
2021-07-03 19:39:03	phogg	sort -u uniq's, but it can't also -c(ount)
2021-07-03 19:39:08	hajonnes	I have switched Esc and Caps. When I use vscode: Esc registers as Caps and Esc, Caps does nothing. Switch was done in plasma system settings. no other program behaves this way. I use nvim as a plugin in vscode. nvim stand alone is ok.
2021-07-03 19:39:09	SpeakerToMeat	ayecee, I don't need a number just the ammount
2021-07-03 19:39:10	ayecee	my bad
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2021-07-03 19:40:13	phogg	SpeakerToMeat: sort file | uniq -c # counts lines that have the same value, reports the count and line content for each unique value found
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2021-07-03 19:40:33	phogg	I use this kind of thing all the time for quickie apache log mining
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2021-07-03 19:41:10	SpeakerToMeat	phogg, thanks
2021-07-03 19:41:11	phogg	now if only I were cool enough to have memorized some kind of "and then graph this data" oneliner I could save myself some time
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2021-07-03 19:45:18	jacke	grep -c .  ?
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2021-07-03 19:46:32	phogg	jacke: not quite what was wanted
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2021-07-03 19:53:31	Sauvin	I would have resorted to something that uses a hash, didn't know about uniq -c.
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2021-07-03 19:54:08	Dagmar	When you're staring at how uniq works it becomes kind of a no-brainer
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2021-07-03 19:55:07	Sauvin	How It Works: Step 1: install the grating/slicing tool in the food processor...
2021-07-03 19:55:13	phogg	it's hard to be more efficient if you're crossing all lines anyway
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2021-07-03 19:55:21	Dagmar	yep
2021-07-03 19:55:22	phogg	awk starts to be a winner when you're working on a subset
2021-07-03 19:55:30	phogg	or rather, applying a condition
2021-07-03 19:55:52	Sauvin	Yup. awk uses a hash, although I don't think awk calls it that.
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2021-07-03 19:56:36	phogg	I don't recall (I don't do much awk). Perl is also a good option. perl -ne '$seen{$k}++ if /whatever/ END{ summarize }'
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2021-07-03 19:57:48	[[R]]	Sauvin: like pot?
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2021-07-03 19:59:33	Sauvin	Wrong kind of hash, dude. I can't get my mind off "hash browns", some eggs, some sausage and a few flapjacks
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2021-07-03 20:00:48	Dagmar	Damn you
2021-07-03 20:00:49	phogg	[[R]]: hey man, you should come by and light up a bowl of associative array tonight
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2021-07-03 20:01:06	 *	Dagmar goes to warm the convection oven
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2021-07-03 20:01:47	 *	phogg now feels the need to check and see if there are eggs in the fridge
2021-07-03 20:02:25	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-03 20:02:27	Kyv	Steak & eggs, please.
2021-07-03 20:02:39	Kyv	More flapjacks for you.
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2021-07-03 20:08:41	jabberwock	do any of you use AirVPN cli?
2021-07-03 20:08:45	jabberwock	the documentation is ridiculous to me
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2021-07-03 20:10:02	Aurora_v_kosmose	Anyone aware of hyperthreading developments regarding the scheduler and process grouping via cgroups? I'm wondering if it'll be configurable for general process-per-core isolation.
2021-07-03 20:10:49	Aurora_v_kosmose	Instead of needing to manually mark the groups one wants to run together and not.
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2021-07-03 20:12:31	ayecee	doesn't seem like the kind of thing one would just happen to know offhand
2021-07-03 20:13:04	spyroboy	https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/resource_management_guide/sec-cpuset
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2021-07-03 20:13:46	spyroboy	Aurora_v_kosmose,
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2021-07-03 20:13:58	Aurora_v_kosmose	spyroboy: That doesn't take care of hyperthreading by default and that's even worse than the cgroup-based option I mentioned.
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2021-07-03 20:14:20	Aurora_v_kosmose	I'm aware of CPU-pinning, and it doesn't differentiate between physical and logical cores.
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2021-07-03 20:15:05	spyroboy	I'm not sure what you're asking then.
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2021-07-03 20:15:57	Aurora_v_kosmose	spyroboy: There were mentions in a Xen mailing list thread of work being done also on the Linux side to separate things on a physical core level in order to safely enable hyperthreading without re-enabling all the vulnerabilities intended to be mitigated by turning it off.
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2021-07-03 20:16:30	Aurora_v_kosmose	I unfortunately didn't bookmark said thread and failed to find it back.
2021-07-03 20:16:40	Aurora_v_kosmose	So I have no idea if they actually sourced their claim.
2021-07-03 20:17:51	spyroboy	I see.
2021-07-03 20:18:02	spyroboy	well, I think that Xen mailing list would be the best place to ask.
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2021-07-03 20:18:45	Aurora_v_kosmose	I suppose it would be, but I wanted to ask in case anyone here happened to have already been following developments on these matters.
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2021-07-03 20:24:35	ayecee	kind of an esoteric question for a general chat
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2021-07-03 20:26:42	spyroboy	it's fine. esoteric questions also belong in general chats but expect that most people won't understand what it is. someone might but the chances are that they're online when you mention it is probably vanishingly small.
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2021-07-03 20:27:10	Aurora_v_kosmose	Sadly yeah, that's how it goes.
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2021-07-03 20:45:24	akik	Aurora_v_kosmose: check your browser history for it
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2021-07-03 20:46:42	Aurora_v_kosmose	Not sure if I cleared it since, but I'll also check that.
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2021-07-03 21:41:33	Topco	awoo
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2021-07-03 21:41:58	Guest29	hi
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2021-07-03 21:50:42	--	jacke is now known as Guest4766
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2021-07-03 21:52:41	arcturus	you cant just come in, howl and leave
2021-07-03 21:52:41	<--	GrantN05 (~GrantN05@user/grantn05) has quit (Quit: Bye)
2021-07-03 21:53:19	Guest29	howls*
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2021-07-03 21:54:17	Kyv	you probably get a lot of howls, being a star and all
2021-07-03 21:54:21	jim	Guest29, hi
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2021-07-03 21:54:51	Kyv	probably hard not to be blase about it by now
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2021-07-03 22:07:48	 *	Sauvin farts, making a noise resembling a "howl" somewhat
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2021-07-03 22:08:17	--	cacti is now known as ice
2021-07-03 22:09:21	Kyv	you've been more gassy than usual
2021-07-03 22:09:26	Kyv	everything ok?
2021-07-03 22:09:36	<--	pranith (~Pranith@c-107-3-165-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-07-03 22:10:47	Sauvin	Too many birthdays.
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2021-07-03 22:11:23	twainwek	good morning
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2021-07-03 22:15:52	Khaytsus	Sauvin: They say the alternative is worse
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2021-07-03 22:17:01	Sauvin	Dunno. I hear that neighbourhood is mighty quiet. No more people across the street playing their music loud enough to rattle things off the coffee table.
2021-07-03 22:17:48	<--	Str1x (~d14@103.113.205.79) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-03 22:17:51	Kyv	Who say?
2021-07-03 22:17:54	Kyv	I've never heard complaints.
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2021-07-03 22:21:40	twainwek	FloridaMan: how many fingers do you have
2021-07-03 22:21:48	twainwek	i'll ask the same question on Monday
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2021-07-03 22:25:26	 *	Sauvin types with all eleven fingers
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2021-07-03 22:32:11	Kyv	requires a polydactl support animal
2021-07-03 22:32:56	Kyv	preferably a ship's cat
2021-07-03 22:33:15	-->	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has joined #linux
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2021-07-03 22:35:07	[[R]]	somethign about hemmingway
2021-07-03 22:35:33	-->	Guest14 (~Guest14@ip70-187-76-26.cl.ri.cox.net) has joined #linux
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2021-07-03 22:36:57	Kyv	there is a guy on youtube that expunges rodent infestations with a dog and a mink
2021-07-03 22:37:55	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-03 22:38:08	Kyv	that little bugger is a trip
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2021-07-03 23:20:53	greatcoof	hey
2021-07-03 23:21:06	<--	chrono (~chrono@user/joelchrono12) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-03 23:21:16	--	jacke is now known as Guest688
2021-07-03 23:23:28	HumbleGuy	how to remove duplicate lines in a file?
2021-07-03 23:24:55	[[R]]	uniq
2021-07-03 23:24:57	<--	LinusCDE2 (~LinusCDE@user/linuscde) has quit (Quit: I hate my DLan!)
2021-07-03 23:25:18	-->	Tech_8 (~Tech_8@24.51.61.131) has joined #linux
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2021-07-03 23:25:20	Tech_8	sup
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2021-07-03 23:33:58	jim	HumbleGuy, first, you need to get the file so the duplicates are next to each other. you can do that by sorting the file. then you can feed it to uniq, which can then remove the duplicates, and send the resulting text to stdout, where you can redirect it into another fiole
2021-07-03 23:34:24	-->	Apple1925 (~Apple1925@104.129.24.147.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 23:34:31	Apple1925	HI
2021-07-03 23:34:32	jim	greatcoof, hi
2021-07-03 23:34:33	<--	dogbert2 (~Bill@ip68-105-189-91.lv.lv.cox.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-03 23:34:40	Apple1925	I'm using Lubuntu 20.04 LTS
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2021-07-03 23:34:44	jim	Apple1925, hi
2021-07-03 23:34:46	Apple1925	I'm using a VPN Applicaiton
2021-07-03 23:34:48	-->	dogbert2 (~Bill@ip68-105-189-91.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-03 23:35:02	Apple1925	and the VPN-specific Icon isnt showing, instead a generic Gear Icon/Appimage icon is showing
2021-07-03 23:35:14	Apple1925	Im trying to get the Applicaiton specific tray icon to display isntead
2021-07-03 23:35:51	Nosrep	i think you can edit the appimage to add an icon
2021-07-03 23:35:53	Nosrep	not sure how
2021-07-03 23:36:08	HumbleGuy	jim, thanks a lot
2021-07-03 23:36:16	Nosrep	or not
2021-07-03 23:36:28	Nosrep	if you can't you can always just create a .desktop file that runs the appimage
2021-07-03 23:36:29	jim	HumbleGuy, welcome
2021-07-03 23:37:12	Apple1925	The desktop file has an icon
2021-07-03 23:37:19	Apple1925	And on other OSs the Tray Icon is correct
2021-07-03 23:37:38	Apple1925	Its only on this OS, the Tray Icon specifically doesnt show the Desktop Icon
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2021-07-03 23:39:39	HumbleGuy	Why sometimes when i hit tab, it autocompletes to an non-existent file, for eg /etc/host instead of /etc/hosts, host file does not exist, then why it autocompletes to that? This is not the only case i found, there are several more "ghost" files like that.
2021-07-03 23:39:53	Nosrep	try hitting tab again
2021-07-03 23:40:03	Nosrep	sometimes it completes partially if there's multiple files that start the same way
2021-07-03 23:40:14	Nosrep	e.g. /etc/hosts and /etc/hostsboubfusboocsundoioihn
2021-07-03 23:40:23	Nosrep	*/etc/hostosbousosimeimi
2021-07-03 23:41:38	HumbleGuy	Nosrep, omg of cource, why didn't i think of that?
2021-07-03 23:41:47	HumbleGuy	course*
2021-07-03 23:42:04	[[R]]	i just tell people "tab tab"
2021-07-03 23:42:09	jim	HumbleGuy, you also have /etc/host.allow and /etc/host.deny
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2021-07-03 23:42:28	jim	what's in common, is /etc/host
2021-07-03 23:42:58	HumbleGuy	yeah
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2021-07-03 23:44:28	Nosrep	how practical is alpine as a daily driver type thing
2021-07-03 23:44:35	[[R]]	Nosrep: not practicle
2021-07-03 23:44:41	Nosrep	why not
2021-07-03 23:44:41	[[R]]	Nosrep: just use a major dist
2021-07-03 23:44:42	Apple1925	I reccomend Lubuntu
2021-07-03 23:44:46	TJ-	HumbleGuy: for bash, /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/ shows the scripts that are also used
2021-07-03 23:44:48	[[R]]	Nosrep: well if you have to ask...
2021-07-03 23:44:59	rascul	[[R]] you're a major dist
2021-07-03 23:45:03	[[R]]	rascul: you know it
2021-07-03 23:45:06	rascul	i do
2021-07-03 23:45:10	rascul	that's why i said it
2021-07-03 23:45:14	Nosrep	package support i'm guessing?
2021-07-03 23:45:17	Nosrep	or just general software support
2021-07-03 23:45:32	<--	Lutin (~Lutin@user/lutin) has quit (Quit: Lutin)
2021-07-03 23:45:38	rascul	alpine on the desktop can be difficult
2021-07-03 23:45:49	rascul	well not difficult, maybe tedious
2021-07-03 23:45:50	[[R]]	rascul: you're difficult
2021-07-03 23:45:52	<--	sahasatvik (~sahasatvi@223.235.127.214) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-03 23:46:00	rascul	i'm super difficult
2021-07-03 23:46:08	rascul	diff cult
2021-07-03 23:46:18	Apple1925	hi
2021-07-03 23:46:21	rascul	who wants to be in my cult?
2021-07-03 23:46:31	[[R]]	rascul: am i getting in at the top or the bottom?
2021-07-03 23:46:33	Kyv	Install Alpine, and find out.
2021-07-03 23:46:47	rascul	[[R]] it's based on `diff` output
2021-07-03 23:46:58	[[R]]	rascul: am i getting in on the left or the right?
2021-07-03 23:47:05	onelegend	I LOVE ALPINE
2021-07-03 23:47:11	rascul	kinda depends, maybe both
2021-07-03 23:47:20	iflema	parallel or serial?
2021-07-03 23:47:26	rascul	neither
2021-07-03 23:48:21	iflema	just curious
2021-07-03 23:48:27	rascul	i believe you
2021-07-03 23:48:45	iflema	who?
2021-07-03 23:48:48	rascul	you
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2021-07-03 23:49:01	Apple1925	Hi
2021-07-03 23:49:02	iflema	umm
2021-07-03 23:49:07	iflema	o/
2021-07-03 23:49:14	rascul	i believe that you're curious
2021-07-03 23:49:17	onelegend	GNU
2021-07-03 23:49:17	Apple1925	My Ubuntu Tray Icons dont display correctly
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2021-07-03 23:49:36	onelegend	send screenshot
2021-07-03 23:50:33	Apple1925	hi
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2021-07-03 23:50:45	 *	iflema low
2021-07-03 23:50:58	rascul	get low
2021-07-03 23:51:02	Apple1925	https://i.postimg.cc/vT6m1n8g/trayicons1.jpg
2021-07-03 23:51:19	Apple1925	That Gear Icon, Lubuntu AppImage Icon
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2021-07-03 23:51:26	Apple1925	Is supposed to be a micro desktop icon
2021-07-03 23:51:35	Apple1925	I saw it work correctly one time
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2021-07-03 23:52:10	Apple1925	It worked right once
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2021-07-03 23:52:17	Apple1925	but ever since it just displays the generic appimage icon
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2021-07-03 23:55:09	 *	iflema south
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2021-07-03 23:57:21	 *	rascul leaves north being chased by a small pony
2021-07-03 23:57:46	TJ-	any ideas why "modprobe -v --force-modversion --force-vermagic ..." reports "Exec format error" (but no kernel errors reported) ? I'm testing some slight edits to ath.ko with incremental builds so it's the same base kernel source
2021-07-03 23:58:44	[[R]]	the kernel config used to build the module has to match t he kernel config used to build the running kernel exactly
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2021-07-03 23:59:23	Apple1925	im using a vpn
2021-07-03 23:59:29	[[R]]	Apple1925: congradulations
2021-07-03 23:59:36	Apple1925	and the vpn trayicon used to be the vpn tray icon
2021-07-03 23:59:37	Apple1925	but ever since it just displays the generic appimage icon
2021-07-03 23:59:52	TJ-	[[R]]: indeed; the system is running the same kernel build; all I'm doing is recompiling the (ath) module to test some fixes
2021-07-03 23:59:58	<--	OneFlyingWaffle (FlyingWaff@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flyingwaffle) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 00:00:10	[[R]]	if you dnt change it it works
2021-07-04 00:00:11	[[R]]	?
2021-07-04 00:00:11	TJ-	[[R]]: I'm stripping the built module and signing it with the same key
2021-07-04 00:00:22	[[R]]	well, sounds like you're corrupting it
2021-07-04 00:00:24	[[R]]	by doing that
2021-07-04 00:00:55	TJ-	[[R]]: no tools have detected that - modinfo reports everything expected, signature uses the same key, etc.
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2021-07-04 00:01:34	TJ-	file reports the same for first and second module too: "ath.ko: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), BuildID[sha1]=764987c01f82ed860a2998a963bbb73977e923ce, not stripped"
2021-07-04 00:01:40	<--	fstd (~fstd@xdsl-84-44-233-102.nc.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-04 00:02:04	TJ-	[[R]]: I'll try the built module without stripping it
2021-07-04 00:04:05	rascul	symbols are the same?
2021-07-04 00:04:26	[[R]]	rascul: you're a symbol
2021-07-04 00:04:29	Apple1925	no
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2021-07-04 00:04:38	Apple1925	tray icon should be specific for the app
2021-07-04 00:04:38	 *	rascul symbolizes [[R]]
2021-07-04 00:04:46	Apple1925	but is just a generic appimge icon
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2021-07-04 00:07:05	Kyv	Did you relocate your appimages recently?
2021-07-04 00:07:13	Apple1925	no
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2021-07-04 00:08:53	Apple1925	it worked one time
2021-07-04 00:09:01	Kyv	sounds like something went screwy in the process of getting any kind of desktop integration with the appimages
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2021-07-04 00:09:16	 *	[[R]] integrates Kyv 
2021-07-04 00:09:24	Apple1925	i installed the app via apt-get
2021-07-04 00:09:33	Apple1925	but the icon is just showing a generic gear icon
2021-07-04 00:09:52	[[R]]	what kind of screwy appimage installs with apt?
2021-07-04 00:10:00	Apple1925	it wasnt an appimage
2021-07-04 00:10:06	Kyv	it is probably looking for the old icon now
2021-07-04 00:10:12	Apple1925	its just a generic icon
2021-07-04 00:10:17	Apple1925	in the tray
2021-07-04 00:10:23	[[R]]	if it came from your dist, then file a bug
2021-07-04 00:10:30	Apple1925	it worked before
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2021-07-04 00:10:38	TJ-	rascul: aha, of course, that'll be it! I've added a module_param
2021-07-04 00:10:39	Apple1925	it showed the responsive tray icon before
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2021-07-04 00:11:47	rascul	TJ- you need to depmod?
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2021-07-04 00:12:38	TJ-	rascul: did that
2021-07-04 00:12:48	rascul	oh :(
2021-07-04 00:13:04	TJ-	rascul: I'll do a full rebuild with this change it will be quicker than figuring this modprobe error!
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2021-07-04 00:13:20	Kyv	Apple1925: so you had app image icons that weren't working, then you installed the packages through apt to see if that would fix it?
2021-07-04 00:14:01	TJ-	rascul: I'm having to alter the way the ath.ko module handles regulatory domains because the device has no firmware-embedded regulatory region and it defaults to US, and won't change to GB despite being told to
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2021-07-04 00:16:42	Kyv	I havent seen an app icon in some time.
2021-07-04 00:16:46	Kyv	Feeling a little thirsty
2021-07-04 00:17:00	Apple1925	I isntalled an app with apt-get
2021-07-04 00:17:04	Apple1925	It has a tray icon when running
2021-07-04 00:17:10	Apple1925	it showes a generic gear icon
2021-07-04 00:17:17	Apple1925	its supposed to show a app-specific tray icon
2021-07-04 00:17:24	Apple1925	It did show the correct icon 1 time
2021-07-04 00:17:30	Apple1925	now its just generic gear icon
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2021-07-04 00:18:55	Kyv	so there were no appimages
2021-07-04 00:19:28	Apple1925	right
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2021-07-04 00:22:41	 *	[[R]] turns Kyv into an appimage
2021-07-04 00:22:59	<--	beaver (~loop@user/pong) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-04 00:23:09	Kyv	but i dont wanna be an appimage
2021-07-04 00:23:25	[[R]]	that doesn't matter
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2021-07-04 00:24:34	TJ-	ouch! being dive-bombed by a murmuration of Starlings!
2021-07-04 00:24:44	TJ-	the things we put up with whilst building kernels :D
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2021-07-04 00:46:16	Kyv	yep
2021-07-04 00:46:20	Kyv	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Lunch_atop_a_Skyscraper.jpg
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2021-07-04 00:46:50	Kyv	they said the very same thing
2021-07-04 00:48:30	Apple1925	President John F Kennedy was CIA'd
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2021-07-04 00:51:21	Apple1925	Im a narc
2021-07-04 00:51:43	rascul	otic
2021-07-04 00:54:50	twainwek	what is up with scrollpads scroll directions differing from computer to computer
2021-07-04 00:55:08	twainwek	on one computer when i two finger scroll down, the page scrolls up. on another machine, it scrolls up
2021-07-04 00:55:12	twainwek	insanity
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2021-07-04 00:56:07	Kyv	that doesnt sound too different
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2021-07-04 00:56:35	twainwek	oh
2021-07-04 00:56:47	twainwek	on one computer it scrolls up, on another computer it scrolls down
2021-07-04 00:56:50	twainwek	that's better
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2021-07-04 01:00:50	Kyv	could probably change "natural scrolling" in input config
2021-07-04 01:01:02	Kyv	to keep it consistent
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2021-07-04 01:02:35	twainwek	your name reminds me of kirov
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2021-07-04 01:02:43	twainwek	KIROV REPORTINNG
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2021-07-04 01:05:19	Kyv	I dont know the kirov you speak of
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2021-07-04 01:06:36	TJ-	Any ideas why '/lib/crda/crda' reports "Failed to set regulatory domain: -7" (seems to be -ETOOBIG) but having enabled dynamic_debug on the cfg80211 module the kernel doesn't report anything, making me think CRDA is failing in the netlink library before talking to the kernel
2021-07-04 01:06:45	Kyv	if you run `sudo libinput list-devices' though you'll see the feature set of your trackpads
2021-07-04 01:07:02	Kyv	and can change them in xorg.conf or however you'd like to do it
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2021-07-04 01:08:45	twainwek	libinput not found
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2021-07-04 01:09:17	Kyv	oh I guess you are still using synaptics
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2021-07-04 01:10:56	Kyv	you can use libinput, I mean it is a drop-in replacement
2021-07-04 01:11:01	Kyv	not much happening with synaptics
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2021-07-04 01:13:39	Swift110-mobile	I see
2021-07-04 01:14:06	TJ-	hmm, -7 from libnl is possibly "#define NLE_INVAL 7"
2021-07-04 01:14:14	Swift110-mobile	So the game plan is to double my ram and to try to find a nice gpu that won't break the bank as well for Cities Skylines
2021-07-04 01:15:16	Kyv	that is a game plan
2021-07-04 01:15:37	Swift110-mobile	I can get the 16 gb ddr3 ram for $60
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2021-07-04 01:17:35	Kyv	its just smooth sailing from here
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2021-07-04 01:20:50	Swift110-mobile	I wish that was the case Kyv but I am going to have to be creative about getting a new gpu these days. The ram on the other hand, would be easy. Another consideration is how much I wish to install in my i5 2320 pc in the first place and if it would be more cost effective to just build or buy a newer one.
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2021-07-04 01:21:34	Sauvin	Build a new one!
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2021-07-04 01:22:15	jim	I'd be wondering, what do you have (or what are you planning to have) that can use that exact ram?
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2021-07-04 01:23:21	jim	it looks like you have a fairly good picture of that
2021-07-04 01:23:33	kirk781	Oh boy, I feel like such a noob on opening Audacity now
2021-07-04 01:23:48	kirk781	I guess I'll restrict myself to ffmpeg for just trimming files
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2021-07-04 01:37:54	twainwek	ddr3? what is this 1991?
2021-07-04 01:38:52	onelegend	ddr6
2021-07-04 01:38:56	onelegend	ddr10
2021-07-04 01:39:02	onelegend	ddr1200
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2021-07-04 01:39:08	onelegend	ddrX
2021-07-04 01:39:14	twainwek	i have 512GB of ddr5 in my laptop
2021-07-04 01:39:21	sheep	lies
2021-07-04 01:39:37	onelegend	I have 32GB DDR3
2021-07-04 01:39:46	sheep	I'd believe 64 GB in a lapto, but not 512
2021-07-04 01:39:46	twainwek	oh i misred, it's 512 MB of ram and 5 GB of HDD
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2021-07-04 01:40:00	sheep	unless you have a giant lap and your laptop is actually a mainframe
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2021-07-04 01:40:38	TJ-	or the GPU has it
2021-07-04 01:40:55	twainwek	no one needs 640KB of ram anyway
2021-07-04 01:40:59	twainwek	more than*
2021-07-04 01:41:24	TJ-	twainwek: they wouldn't... but they do ... due to 'devops' and bloat :D
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2021-07-04 01:42:32	twainwek	i don't know why, but whenever i hear devops i think of india
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2021-07-04 01:43:27	akik	hackops
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2021-07-04 01:44:31	akik	has the amount of scamming calls from india come down recently?
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2021-07-04 01:45:48	twainwek	i don't get this whole scam call phenomenon
2021-07-04 01:45:49	TJ-	I have concluded that building a Linux Access Point is the ultimate in futility, due to the way the regulatory rules are forced
2021-07-04 01:45:58	twainwek	i never answer the phone if i don't recoginize the number.
2021-07-04 01:46:04	twainwek	so i never have an issue with spam calls
2021-07-04 01:46:43	TJ-	it's easy to avoid them - answer in a non-English language, preferrably made-up :)
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2021-07-04 01:47:07	twainwek	what if you answer with an indian accent
2021-07-04 01:47:17	sumthing1980	are there ways to preallocate space on disk for a db file to reduce fragmentation,
2021-07-04 01:47:30	TJ-	India has so many languages... there's a good chance the caller won't speak the one you use :)
2021-07-04 01:47:37	sumthing1980	If I use ssd is it pointless ?
2021-07-04 01:47:38	TJ-	sumthing1980: "fallocate"
2021-07-04 01:47:49	twainwek	speaking of which, have you noticed that no one ever does indian accent impressions? for some reason doing an indian accent impression is taboo
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2021-07-04 01:48:04	akik	twainwek: the simpsons
2021-07-04 01:48:05	TJ-	twainwek: depends on where you are and how sensitive
2021-07-04 01:48:17	twainwek	akik: apu got canceled
2021-07-04 01:48:34	akik	figures
2021-07-04 01:48:51	twainwek	i don't understand. why is it ok to do a french, german, italian, etc etc impression, but not indian
2021-07-04 01:49:55	Sauvin	I, for one, refuse to try because I just can't do it.
2021-07-04 01:50:58	Sauvin	French? Sure. Italian? Yeah. Spanish? Why not! German, OK, no problem. Hell, I might even be able to pull off a Russian accent... but accents from outside these areas, I just can't do.
2021-07-04 01:50:59	TJ-	sumthing1980: one way to do it is create an LVM block device, or use a loopdev file. Depends on the DB you're using too
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2021-07-04 01:51:57	Sauvin	TJ-, on those very rare occasions I actually do manage to pick up a spam call, I'll usually answer in German.
2021-07-04 01:52:01	sumthing1980	considering sqlite
2021-07-04 01:52:25	sumthing1980	mut fallocate just grows the file immediately, It would not work as I thought
2021-07-04 01:52:48	sumthing1980	I just want minimal fragmentation but this is linux and I if I use ssd it may be pointless
2021-07-04 01:53:02	Sauvin	The cute thing is trying to figure out how big your DB is going to be if you want to pre-allocate enough without pre-allocating too much.
2021-07-04 01:53:24	Sauvin	Why is fragmentation a fear?
2021-07-04 01:53:31	twainwek	i think sqlite does some interesting things behind the scene. that's why it's so slow to create tables
2021-07-04 01:53:55	sumthing1980	yea this is too bothersome, Ill do my thing and see if defrag is needed in the future
2021-07-04 01:54:22	Sauvin	Thinking not. I remember reading somewhere that most Linux-native FS fragment about 2.5%.
2021-07-04 01:54:30	twainwek	if you're worried about performance due to db size, probably sqlite is not the right tool for you
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2021-07-04 01:54:53	sumthing1980	yea ok
2021-07-04 01:54:56	twainwek	plus if you're using ssds you don't even need to worry about things like that
2021-07-04 01:54:58	sumthing1980	thanks
2021-07-04 01:54:58	Sauvin	Dunno. SQLite swallowed some monsters for me.
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2021-07-04 01:55:11	sumthing1980	ssds are random access right
2021-07-04 01:55:25	twainwek	i think there are a few gotchas, but effectively yes
2021-07-04 01:55:34	sumthing1980	ok
2021-07-04 01:55:41	sumthing1980	it is a problem for another day
2021-07-04 01:55:43	sumthing1980	thanks all bye
2021-07-04 01:56:18	twainwek	another thing i don't understand is keyboard backlights
2021-07-04 01:56:23	twainwek	or even worse, rgb keyboards
2021-07-04 01:56:47	Sauvin	Never seen an "rgb keyboard".
2021-07-04 01:57:00	twainwek	i mean if it was 1973, i'd understand as people would need to look at the keyboard to see where the keys are. but no one looks at keyboards to type anymore
2021-07-04 01:57:33	akik	what the hell does the year have to do with anything?
2021-07-04 01:57:55	twainwek	because back in 1973 not everyone had a computer and a smartphone
2021-07-04 01:58:02	twainwek	it was only 3 years since unix epoch
2021-07-04 01:58:12	TJ-	sumthing1980: can't you just call VACUUM sometimes ?
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2021-07-04 01:58:30	sumthing1980	whats that
2021-07-04 01:58:47	-->	schillingklaus (~schilling@37.4.224.123) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 01:58:54	TJ-	sumthing1980: a standard SQL statement
2021-07-04 01:59:06	TJ-	sumthing1980: see https://www.sqlite.org/lang_vacuum.html
2021-07-04 01:59:14	sumthing1980	never heard of it, Ill look at it
2021-07-04 01:59:18	sumthing1980	thanks
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2021-07-04 02:03:31	autopsy	Is there a reason that the desktop would come up everything except the activities menu in Gnome?
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2021-07-04 02:04:26	twainwek	don't question gnome
2021-07-04 02:04:33	twainwek	developers know what's good for you
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2021-07-04 02:07:58	schillingklaus	gnome is pure evil, exactly like pla$ma
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2021-07-04 02:09:14	twainwek	whats your problem with plasma
2021-07-04 02:09:47	twainwek	speak now or forever hold your peace
2021-07-04 02:10:04	schillingklaus	plasma is macos simulation just as gnome is windows simulation
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2021-07-04 02:12:13	twainwek	lol what
2021-07-04 02:12:18	twainwek	plasma is nothing like macos
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2021-07-04 02:12:34	twainwek	gnome is nothing like windows either
2021-07-04 02:13:12	schillingklaus	as examplified by the presence of obnoxious stuff like task bars, systrays, icons, window decorations, click menus
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2021-07-04 02:13:48	twainwek	lol
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2021-07-04 02:15:14	jim	and gnome is -definitely- not like kde/plasma :)
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2021-07-04 02:15:18	autopsy	Plasma is crazy.
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2021-07-04 02:15:27	jim	maybe
2021-07-04 02:15:32	autopsy	Take me back to my broken Gnome.
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2021-07-04 02:39:22	akik	plasma 5 is great
2021-07-04 02:39:43	akik	the first v5 versions on ubuntu weren't so great
2021-07-04 02:39:52	akik	crashy crashy
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2021-07-04 02:52:24	acresearch	people if i want to copy the first half of number of files in a directory to a new directory, how can i write such a command?
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2021-07-04 02:58:48	mokulus	What do you need this for? Maybe there is a simpler solution?
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2021-07-04 03:02:01	autopsy	acresearch, cp {file1,file2,file3} /new/directory
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2021-07-04 03:02:41	akik	acresearch: cp [a-k]* /tmp
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2021-07-04 03:03:37	schillingklaus	what's that acre search? Autopsy-compatible regular expressions?
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2021-07-04 03:04:35	autopsy	He didn't state he was using a compatible terminal shell.
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2021-07-04 03:04:57	autopsy	I thhink he is using command.com
2021-07-04 03:05:36	mokulus	If that's really what you need, I'd use this then xargs: ls -1 | sed -n "1,$(( $(ls -1 | wc -l) / 2 ))p"
2021-07-04 03:05:55	schillingklaus	[a-k]* is not necessarily the first half of numbers of files
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2021-07-04 03:06:27	autopsy	mokulus, what does that command do?
2021-07-04 03:07:41	schillingklaus	isn't command.com an ms dos thing?
2021-07-04 03:08:22	Kyv	he didnt state much of anything
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2021-07-04 03:08:45	autopsy	command.com is the command interpreter.
2021-07-04 03:09:00	autopsy	Theres msdos.sys and io.sys too which is MS DOS.
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2021-07-04 03:10:17	autopsy	He said "I copy deez filez how to numbers from another directory to another how?"
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2021-07-04 03:11:08	akik	schillingklaus: vague question, equally vague answer
2021-07-04 03:11:09	autopsy	Is it strange I don't seem to have a serial port on my motherboard?
2021-07-04 03:11:31	autopsy	I need it for a Cisco router administration cable interface,.
2021-07-04 03:11:36	TJ-	acresearch: TARGET="/path/to/target"; half=$(( $(find .  | wc -l) / 2 )); START=$half; FINISH=0; current=$START; while [[ $current -gt $FINISH ]] && read f; do echo $current: cp $f $TARGET/; current=$((current - 1)); done < <(find . ); echo "Copied files $START to $FINISH of $((half * 2))"
2021-07-04 03:11:52	autopsy	Holy god.
2021-07-04 03:11:55	TJ-	autopsy: many mobo's still have UART headers but not exposed externally
2021-07-04 03:12:09	autopsy	TJ-, what does that mean?
2021-07-04 03:12:34	TJ-	autopsy: they've got the hardware but no RS232 D-sub socket
2021-07-04 03:12:54	TJ-	autopsy: usually there will be a 4 or 5-pin header somewhere that you can connect to
2021-07-04 03:12:54	autopsy	TJ-, yeah I looked I swear I don't have a serial port.
2021-07-04 03:13:37	TJ-	autopsy: most intel/AMD chipsets have the logic built into the chipset
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2021-07-04 03:13:55	rudi_s	Serial to usb adapter?
2021-07-04 03:14:16	autopsy	DB9 to RJ45
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2021-07-04 03:14:48	TJ-	autopsy: " journalctl -k | grep serial " will tell you what the kernel has found
2021-07-04 03:15:08	schillingklaus	did those serial ports not disappear already a few years after the millennial turn?
2021-07-04 03:15:20	TJ-	schillingklaus: no
2021-07-04 03:16:05	TJ-	originally the hardware was separate chips (8250 then 16550) then was built into the south-bridge and is now usually poart of the LPC (low pin count) logic
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2021-07-04 03:16:35	autopsy	TJ-, https://paste.centos.org/view/696c27b3
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2021-07-04 03:17:17	TJ-	autopsy: so nothing there, assuming you've got all the required modules available
2021-07-04 03:17:35	autopsy	TJ-, yeah. What about dmidecode
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2021-07-04 03:18:30	TJ-	autopsy: don't recall seeing UARTs listed in DMI
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2021-07-04 03:19:07	TJ-	autopsy: here's an example of what you'd expect: "apu2 kernel: serial8250: ttyS2 at I/O 0x3e8 (irq = 4, base_baud = 115200) is a 16550A"
2021-07-04 03:19:59	autopsy	I see this: https://paste.centos.org/view/713246b4
2021-07-04 03:20:04	TJ-	autopsy: and for a USB adapter "kernel: usbserial: USB Serial support registered for MCT U232"
2021-07-04 03:20:29	Kyv	https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/
2021-07-04 03:20:31	TJ-	autopsy: and is there a DB-9 ?
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2021-07-04 03:20:52	autopsy	TJ-, I swear to god I don't see one on the board.
2021-07-04 03:20:58	Kyv	Do not use Audacity if you are under 13.
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2021-07-04 03:21:07	TJ-	autopsy: DB-9 would be an external port
2021-07-04 03:21:24	autopsy	TJ-, yeah I don't see one.
2021-07-04 03:21:25	TJ-	autopsy: my bet would be the DMI info was copy/pasted from earlier systems and not updated
2021-07-04 03:21:40	autopsy	TJ-, I just ran it.
2021-07-04 03:21:44	TJ-	autopsy: DMI is manually curated in most cases
2021-07-04 03:22:04	TJ-	autopsy: DMI is embedded in the motherboard firmware (BIOS/UEFI)
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2021-07-04 03:22:15	autopsy	Wow.. So how do I connect to this DB-9 connetcor?
2021-07-04 03:22:32	Kyv	"Data we collect: data necessary for law enforcement, litigation, and authorities' requests"
2021-07-04 03:22:33	TJ-	you don't if there isn't one. the DMI is wrong
2021-07-04 03:22:35	Kyv	wew
2021-07-04 03:22:40	autopsy	Ok.
2021-07-04 03:23:21	TJ-	autopsy: get a USB<>serial adapter. best are genuine FTDI made (avoid clones/knock-offs), or MCT
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2021-07-04 03:24:28	TJ-	autopsy: it is possible the system does have a UART but it is disabled by default in the firmware setup, and you may be able to enable it there
2021-07-04 03:27:55	autopsy	How am I gonna connect to this Cisco 800A router it has needs a rj-45 to Db-9 serial connector connect.
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2021-07-04 03:28:38	autopsy	I go to 10.10.10.0 and it has username and password but when I put in cisco with no password it says after like 5 minutes auythentication failed.
2021-07-04 03:29:04	autopsy	I've done it before with a rj-45 to db-9 connector but that was another board.
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2021-07-04 03:34:53	acresearch	can i replace the head with tail in this command? !find DIRX -maxdepth 1 -type f |head -139|xargs cp -t DIRY    i have 1000s of files how can i confirm thay i split them into to separate directories without duplicates?
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2021-07-04 03:49:49	autopsy	acresearch, head shows from the beginning of output that you are recieving tail shows from the last of the output that you are recieving.
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2021-07-04 03:51:22	Helmholtz1	Any Xpath masters here? `//items/item[10]//field1` How can I get all the fields of item[10] not just field1?
2021-07-04 03:52:19	autopsy	Helmholtz1, Xpath? What is this?
2021-07-04 03:52:38	Helmholtz1	autopsy, a query language for xmllint and stuff
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2021-07-04 03:55:25	lopid	i wonder if google knows
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2021-07-04 03:56:24	pete	hey.
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2021-07-04 03:56:41	pete	i installed debian and X does not start.
2021-07-04 03:57:06	-->	Judabuda (~ok@user/judabuda) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 03:57:41	Kyv	Look at a log.
2021-07-04 03:58:01	lopid	i think we're just supposed to know the answer
2021-07-04 03:58:24	sheep	how are you trying to start x?
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2021-07-04 04:00:24	loganlee	you would need to identify the error message
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2021-07-04 04:00:58	schillingklaus	is x even installed? some debian installers default to wayland
2021-07-04 04:02:15	-->	nolesswrong (~nolesswro@45.63.110.46) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:02:23	lopid	we don't even know if they've turned the computer on yet
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2021-07-04 04:06:17	iflema	amd intel power derivative
2021-07-04 04:06:25	iflema	speak
2021-07-04 04:06:29	pete	this shit android client doesnt let me post the url to the screenshot of Xorg.0.log
2021-07-04 04:06:33	pete	mom
2021-07-04 04:06:42	lopid	a screenshot of a log?
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2021-07-04 04:07:06	pete	well, a photo of it, displayed on a 43 display.
2021-07-04 04:07:07	pete	heh
2021-07-04 04:07:10	lopid	sounds like it's doing a good job
2021-07-04 04:07:18	Kyv	mom?
2021-07-04 04:07:25	iflema	shhh
2021-07-04 04:07:34	Mental_Inflation	mom come pick me up there are girls here
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2021-07-04 04:07:41	petedroid	https://photos.app.goo.gl/SiwLxgvuF2zrh1SX6
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2021-07-04 04:08:09	pete	Kyv: abbreviation for "moment"
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2021-07-04 04:08:39	lopid	that's usually "mo"
2021-07-04 04:08:42	pete	ikr about the geo shit, idgaf.
2021-07-04 04:08:46	Mental_Inflation	uno momento is better
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2021-07-04 04:08:57	TJ-	Anyone have experience of iwlwifi and enabling master (AP) operations since lar_disable parameter was removed from the module in v5.5 ? The specific problem is with an Intel AX200 that does self-managed regulatory so cannot set it using 'iw reg set' or loading a regulatory.bin database.
2021-07-04 04:09:09	Sauvin	pete, have a look at the topic.
2021-07-04 04:09:22	pete	yes
2021-07-04 04:09:28	pete	did i break a rule?
2021-07-04 04:09:28	Sauvin	Observe it.
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2021-07-04 04:09:44	pete	this irssi only displays about 120 chars of it.
2021-07-04 04:09:46	<--	nolesswrong (~nolesswro@45.63.110.46) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:09:46	TJ-	And Intel prevent master mode by applying NO-IR to all frequency ranges in the 5GHz band
2021-07-04 04:09:48	lopid	digest it in all its glory
2021-07-04 04:09:49	pete	ah.
2021-07-04 04:09:55	pete	there's /topic
2021-07-04 04:09:56	<--	Camilo (~hugh@5.226.142.220) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:10:12	pete	so.
2021-07-04 04:10:20	pete	what did i do?
2021-07-04 04:10:24	pete	wrong?
2021-07-04 04:10:25	Helmholtz1	How to detect which package installed a program in Ubuntu?
2021-07-04 04:10:25	autopsy	pete, its saying you need to specify BusIDs in your configuration sections in xorg.conf
2021-07-04 04:10:27	--	Pacific_ is now known as arash
2021-07-04 04:10:36	pete	what does that mean
2021-07-04 04:10:38	geirha	dpkg -S /usr/bin/foo
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2021-07-04 04:11:05	pete	cat /etc/passwd
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2021-07-04 04:11:57	autopsy	pete, try: startx -- :1
2021-07-04 04:12:08	Sauvin	pete, on what machine did you install debian?
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2021-07-04 04:12:53	TJ-	Does anyone see *any* wifi device IDs listed here? https://deviwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Wi-Fi_Device_IDs_in_Linux
2021-07-04 04:13:14	pete	x570 e gaming, ryzen 5800x, rtx 2700
2021-07-04 04:13:14	schillingklaus	to use startx, the xinit package needs to be installed
2021-07-04 04:13:35	pete	okay i'll apt-get that, thanks.
2021-07-04 04:13:35	lopid	i don't have wifi on this computer so no
2021-07-04 04:13:39	Helmholtz1	geirha, libxml2-utils/bionic-updates,bionic-security,now 2.9.4+dfsg1-6.1ubuntu1.4 amd64 [installed,automatic]
2021-07-04 04:13:44	Helmholtz1	It's part of this package
2021-07-04 04:13:48	TJ-	Helmholtz1: geirha: that often won't work since many packages still list their files as in /bin/ which is a symlink. I've started doing "dpkg -S bin/foo" as a result.
2021-07-04 04:13:51	Helmholtz1	How to know which PPA installed it?
2021-07-04 04:14:06	<--	kikijiki (~Thunderbi@user/kikijiki) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-04 04:14:27	TJ-	Helmholtz1: it isn't from a PPA, it shows there "bionic-updates" from the main archive
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2021-07-04 04:15:01	schillingklaus	an alternative to xinit is a display manager, allows to login straight into x11
2021-07-04 04:15:05	Helmholtz1	TJ-, So does it mean it came pre-installed?
2021-07-04 04:15:24	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:15:53	TJ-	Helmholtz1: it was installed from the Ubuntu archive - whether it was part of the original install seed, or came later as a dependency of some other package, I can't say. That info would be found manually by grep-ing the files in /var/log/apt/history*
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2021-07-04 04:16:13	Sauvin	pete, is your Debian machine Internet-connected?
2021-07-04 04:16:24	autopsy	TJ-, do you ever use Fedora?
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2021-07-04 04:16:28	TJ-	autopsy: no
2021-07-04 04:16:32	autopsy	Ok.
2021-07-04 04:16:37	-->	nolesswrong (~nolesswro@45.63.110.46) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:16:44	TJ-	autopsy: mostly Debian, or Ubuntu
2021-07-04 04:17:38	petedroid	fts. thanks anyway guys. <3
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2021-07-04 04:18:00	schillingklaus	I once tried something redhattish in 1997... it was horrible, so never again
2021-07-04 04:18:34	Sauvin	What is "fts"?
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2021-07-04 04:18:53	autopsy	Sauvin, "Fuck this shit"
2021-07-04 04:19:05	DLange	or that shit
2021-07-04 04:19:17	autopsy	Sauvin, as far as I know.
2021-07-04 04:19:25	Sauvin	Whichever. Pete, you didn't read the topic, did you?
2021-07-04 04:19:34	Sauvin	}:<
2021-07-04 04:19:42	<--	tejr (~tejr@user/tejr) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:20:17	jim	what's goin on?
2021-07-04 04:20:33	autopsy	I need something to do.
2021-07-04 04:20:41	swarfega	someone woke the slumbering ops :p
2021-07-04 04:21:02	MuchoLoco	it's me (pete)
2021-07-04 04:21:06	autopsy	TJ-, device.id where did it go?
2021-07-04 04:21:12	MuchoLoco	i think i need to install firmware
2021-07-04 04:21:20	<--	pete (~pete@62-116-59-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-04 04:21:23	qwedfg	what fs has smallest flash wear like overwriting the same block
2021-07-04 04:21:24	swarfega	good idea to install the latest
2021-07-04 04:21:24	Mental_Inflation	use the firmware iso
2021-07-04 04:21:25	MuchoLoco	what firmware package is right for an rtx 270?
2021-07-04 04:21:33	qwedfg	so I can install linux on pendrive with write access
2021-07-04 04:21:43	autopsy	MuchoLoco, it clearly stated to use BusIDs in your xorg.conf
2021-07-04 04:21:43	DLange	pete (that was also here as petedroid) installed Debian on an unspecified device (assuming a raspi or so) and didn't get X to run
2021-07-04 04:21:46	<--	OPK (~OPK@user/opk) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:21:56	DLange	jim ^
2021-07-04 04:22:02	qwedfg	for the moment I have f2fs but it has meta-data in fixed point but it's not overwriting much
2021-07-04 04:22:09	MuchoLoco	i said what device it is.
2021-07-04 04:22:16	autopsy	qwedfg, xfs
2021-07-04 04:22:24	MuchoLoco	x570 e gaming, ryzen 5800x, rtx 2700
2021-07-04 04:22:57	Mental_Inflation	can you even work it with 4.19 kernel?
2021-07-04 04:23:13	MuchoLoco	last time i used linux was kernel 2.7
2021-07-04 04:23:24	Mental_Inflation	use fedora
2021-07-04 04:23:27	autopsy	MuchoLoco, it clearly stated to use BusIDs in your xorg.conf
2021-07-04 04:23:38	jim	so I'm guessing pete is having problems
2021-07-04 04:23:42	jim	?
2021-07-04 04:23:45	Mental_Inflation	mucho problems
2021-07-04 04:23:46	MuchoLoco	fukken shit i don't know how to do this autopsy
2021-07-04 04:23:47	schillingklaus	linux on f2fs???
2021-07-04 04:23:58	Sauvin	MuchoLoco, mind the language.
2021-07-04 04:24:10	MuchoLoco	okay sorray.
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2021-07-04 04:24:12	autopsy	MuchoLoco, you edit the xorg.conf and run lspci and put the device bus ID in the section Device
2021-07-04 04:24:29	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:24:41	autopsy	MuchoLoco, look, open a terminal I'll tell you how to do it.
2021-07-04 04:24:43	DLange	qwedfg: https://index.paulierco.ro/docs/Linux/SWNL_choosing_linux_fs_for_flash.pdf seems worth reading
2021-07-04 04:24:44	Mental_Inflation	i'm not an expert but isn't his hardware way to new for debian stable?
2021-07-04 04:24:50	autopsy	MuchoLoco, run: lspci
2021-07-04 04:24:55	-->	kedar_apte (~kedar_apt@223.226.203.195) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 04:25:07	Sauvin	Mental_Inflation, it might be. :\
2021-07-04 04:25:11	autopsy	MuchoLoco, find the Video device and copy the 00:00:04.1 section
2021-07-04 04:25:28	autopsy	MuchoLoco, then vi /etc/X11/xorg.conf and find Section Device
2021-07-04 04:25:30	schillingklaus	i know f2fs only as fast 2 file system of openbsd
2021-07-04 04:25:31	Mental_Inflation	MuchoLoco, you better use fedora
2021-07-04 04:26:07	<--	tejr_ (~tejr@user/tejr) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-07-04 04:26:12	<--	kedar_apte (~kedar_apt@223.226.203.195) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-04 04:26:13	MuchoLoco	Mental_Inflation: gtfo pls <3
2021-07-04 04:26:15	DLange	jim: he's now here as MuchoLoco. Apparently has irccloud as well.
2021-07-04 04:26:15	autopsy	MuchoLoco, press i for insert then put in there anywhere BusID 0:00:04.1 and hit esc then press :wq
2021-07-04 04:26:19	--	Mode #linux [+o DLange] by ChanServ
2021-07-04 04:26:20	Sauvin	Yeah, good luck with that. I'm on Ubuntu and have no /etc/X11/xorg.conf.
2021-07-04 04:26:22	-->	tejr (~tejr@user/tejr) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:26:39	autopsy	Sauvin, its Debian he s on.
2021-07-04 04:26:43	Sauvin	MuchoLoco, you didn't read the /topic, did you?
2021-07-04 04:26:48	jim	Mental_Inflation, that's what's good about linux... each person can use any distribution, or no distribution, that they want
2021-07-04 04:26:51	-->	mitsukage (~mitsukage@105.235.133.28) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:26:54	MuchoLoco	okay awesome thanks i'll reboot into debian again and try it.
2021-07-04 04:26:59	Sauvin	autopsy, I'm assuming it'd be the same for Debian. I didn't have one when I ran Debian.
2021-07-04 04:27:01	TJ-	autopsy: device.id - no idea, but that is the page the kernel regulatory docs on the kernel wiki point to!
2021-07-04 04:27:03	mitsukage	Hi all
2021-07-04 04:27:10	jim	hi
2021-07-04 04:27:12	-->	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:27:15	autopsy	TJ-, yeah hehe.
2021-07-04 04:27:26	@DLange	MuchoLoco: another swearing or insult and you are gone
2021-07-04 04:27:27	autopsy	TJ-, you should have one locally.
2021-07-04 04:27:30	jim	DLange, hmm, didn't notice that
2021-07-04 04:27:44	Mental_Inflation	jim, ofcourse, i use debian stable but my pc is older, maybe fedora will be ok for his hardware
2021-07-04 04:27:57	MuchoLoco	DLange: this guy was mocking me multiple times.
2021-07-04 04:28:08	MuchoLoco	DLange: also, i used abbreviations only.
2021-07-04 04:28:08	autopsy	Sauvin, its part of Xorgs new porbe the devices and try routine there is no xorg.cxonf by default.
2021-07-04 04:28:12	<--	loganlee (~user@user/loganlee) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:28:18	jim	MuchoLoco, you can /ignore him
2021-07-04 04:28:26	MuchoLoco	yeah.
2021-07-04 04:28:31	MuchoLoco	true.
2021-07-04 04:28:31	schillingklaus	abbreviations violate the topic
2021-07-04 04:28:32	TJ-	autopsy: one what?
2021-07-04 04:28:41	-->	Helmholtz2 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:28:43	autopsy	TJ-, a device.id file
2021-07-04 04:28:49	mitsukage	I would like to ask help about herbsluftwm i want to use it but i don't know much about it
2021-07-04 04:28:56	jim	then his messages reach your client, but you don't see them
2021-07-04 04:29:02	autopsy	TJ-, it used to be part of HAL I think.
2021-07-04 04:29:04	-->	randomuser (~randomuse@91.187.59.126) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:29:15	@DLange	MuchoLoco: gtfo gets you banned and arguing even more, so get your Kinderstube out if you have some or I'll take you out and you can mess up your gaming rig all on your own
2021-07-04 04:29:36	rudi_s	mitsukage: What do you want to know? Btw. there's also #herbstluftwm on libera.chat
2021-07-04 04:29:42	TJ-	autopsy: no. I'm trying to identify devices that can support master mode but looks like the list died
2021-07-04 04:29:46	-->	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:29:49	jim	waht's a kinderstube?
2021-07-04 04:29:52	thermatix	o/
2021-07-04 04:29:57	jim	hi
2021-07-04 04:30:01	-->	Iamthehuman1 (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:30:05	thermatix	question, how do I change the default shell the OS uses to source .profile?
2021-07-04 04:30:12	@DLange	jim: a German word for what he is apparently missing (he's Austrian)
2021-07-04 04:30:16	Sauvin	It translates literally as "kids' room", but it may have another meaning.
2021-07-04 04:30:22	MuchoLoco	DLange: why so angry?
2021-07-04 04:30:29	thermatix	I did chsh on my user but it's still using bash (which doesn't work with zsh commands)
2021-07-04 04:30:30	@DLange	it means having learned to behave oneself in public
2021-07-04 04:30:39	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.226.203.195) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:30:41	Sauvin	Oh, sorta like Sandbox 101?
2021-07-04 04:30:50	TJ-	thermatix: "usermod --shell ..."
2021-07-04 04:30:54	MuchoLoco	oh, a german. well.
2021-07-04 04:30:56	<--	Helmholtz1 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:30:56	rudi_s	thermatix: Should be the login shell (which you changed with chsh). Did you re-login?
2021-07-04 04:31:00	-->	Adoi (~Adoi@user/adoi) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:31:09	autopsy	thermatix, you need to relogin.
2021-07-04 04:31:11	rudi_s	However, if you use zsh why not just use .zprofile which is separate from .profile
2021-07-04 04:31:14	thermatix	not yet, changed the shell yesterday and re-logged in today
2021-07-04 04:31:38	rudi_s	Personally I just delete .profile (and everything .bash*) and just use the zsh files.
2021-07-04 04:31:50	-->	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.3.32) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 04:32:22	Kyv	If you run multiple shells, it is better to create ~/.profile and source it in your other profiles if needed.
2021-07-04 04:32:28	mitsukage	rudi_s i want to know how i can customize it i could customize awesome wm a bit i could change and add key binding in i3 but i liked herbsluftwm when i installed it 1st time
2021-07-04 04:32:37	Kyv	Central point of configuration, and some logins hells will source it by default.
2021-07-04 04:32:41	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.9.67) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 04:32:42	jim	thermatix, I'm messing with xonsh... it's got some wonk to it (doesn't always respond to ctrl-c or ctrl-z), don't like that much... but what I do like, is it has most or all of python3
2021-07-04 04:32:42	thermatix	well once I've switched it to all to zsh I'll just use .zprofile
2021-07-04 04:32:58	mitsukage	I joined it thank you
2021-07-04 04:33:14	thermatix	but thanks, didn't know about usermod
2021-07-04 04:33:16	thermatix	only chsh
2021-07-04 04:33:24	Kyv	In this usage, the only ones that belong in their respective shell profiles are shell-specific.
2021-07-04 04:33:38	-->	Str1x (~d14@47-72-76-123.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:34:01	--	Mode #linux [-o DLange] by DLange
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2021-07-04 04:34:05	-->	simon88 (~Thunderbi@217-104-56-246.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 04:34:25	thermatix	jim I was trying with KISS linux but It just became exhausting when I realised just how much more work was going to be needed to do to get it into a usable state
2021-07-04 04:34:36	<--	p0indexter (~alpha@user/p0indexter) has quit (Quit: my karma ran over your dogma)
2021-07-04 04:34:39	thermatix	so now I've switched to regolith
2021-07-04 04:34:43	-->	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:34:54	thermatix	because it's ubuntu and I know ubuntu just worked out the box with this laptop
2021-07-04 04:34:55	schillingklaus	gentoo is even more work than kiss
2021-07-04 04:34:59	<--	corank (~corank@137.132.116.2) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-04 04:35:47	mitsukage	funtoo is easyer to install than gentoo
2021-07-04 04:35:54	<--	Adoi (~Adoi@user/adoi) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-04 04:36:33	thermatix	ok, re-loging in
2021-07-04 04:36:45	<--	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-04 04:37:10	jim	thermatix, ok... curious, how long have you been using linux?
2021-07-04 04:37:57	-->	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:37:57	rudi_s	mitsukage: The example autostart in /etc/xdg/herbstluftwm/autostart is a good start to get a feel how it can be configured. The man page is also quite good (but somewhat long).
2021-07-04 04:37:58	-->	gimgiam (~gimgiam@user/gimgian) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:38:05	thermatix	back
2021-07-04 04:38:08	thermatix	also that did not work
2021-07-04 04:38:26	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:38:27	jim	thermatix, ok... curious, how long have you been using linux?
2021-07-04 04:38:41	thermatix	off and on about..
2021-07-04 04:38:47	thermatix	2 years?
2021-07-04 04:39:03	jim	how do you like it?
2021-07-04 04:39:10	thermatix	Most of my knowledge comes from doing dev work on a mac and well not all the knowledge is transferable
2021-07-04 04:39:13	rudi_s	Keybindings are easy to modify (look at the autostart) and just adapt as needed. But your version of it in ~/.config/herbstluftwm/autostart and run herbstclient reload
2021-07-04 04:39:13	autopsy	thermatix, instead of using chsh just try: /usr/sbin/csh
2021-07-04 04:39:18	rudi_s	mitsukage: ^
2021-07-04 04:39:23	<--	Ringtailed-Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:28ad:19bf:3a0:7977) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 04:39:24	<--	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.226.203.195) has quit (Quit: shubbu)
2021-07-04 04:39:27	thermatix	quite a bit
2021-07-04 04:39:28	<--	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:39:32	rudi_s	autopsy: What?
2021-07-04 04:39:33	Kyv	mitsukage: in other words, read the documentation, start with provided example scripts, trawl github and elsewhere for users' scripts, hang out in ricer forums, whatever.
2021-07-04 04:39:42	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.226.203.195) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:39:44	thermatix	It's a lot easier now days to work with
2021-07-04 04:39:45	autopsy	rudi_s, he might not even have the csh.
2021-07-04 04:39:49	-->	Ringtailed-Fox (~Ringtaile@2001:1970:5d2a:c500:f8df:731e:b98b:9a18) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:40:02	thermatix	there is no csh
2021-07-04 04:40:03	rudi_s	thermatix: What does getent passwd $(id -u) say as login shell?
2021-07-04 04:40:08	-->	OPK (~OPK@user/opk) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:40:15	rudi_s	Which is a good thing, almost nobody likes csh.
2021-07-04 04:40:27	jim	do you do dev stuff on linux? and is that any more comfortable than on a mac? (or less so?)
2021-07-04 04:40:51	-->	buja (~buja@p5494fc4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:40:52	jim	thermatix, I think there's still a tcsh
2021-07-04 04:41:14	jim	haven't heard much about it in the last few years
2021-07-04 04:41:17	rudi_s	thermatix: And what exactly do you expect to happen? AFAIK zsh does not load ~/.profile unless it is called as another shell.
2021-07-04 04:41:24	swarfega	i use zsh
2021-07-04 04:41:28	mitsukage	rudi_s thank you i will read it carefully
2021-07-04 04:41:32	schillingklaus	i've tried csh (probably tcsh)  a bit on freebsd, but it didn't work out well
2021-07-04 04:41:47	-->	vassen (~vasily122@178.35.12.1) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:41:50	thermatix	rudi_s it says user 1000 doesn't exist (I checked the /etc/groups file so it does exist)
2021-07-04 04:42:12	thermatix	and I'm in the /etc/passwd file as well
2021-07-04 04:42:19	rudi_s	mitsukage: If you have specific questions feel free to join #herbstluftwm - it's a quiet channel so wait a while but many devs are present as well.
2021-07-04 04:42:29	<--	borbetomagus (~borbetoma@pool-100-15-49-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:42:29	<--	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:ff0d:400:6902:6d89:dbdb:438) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 04:42:35	schillingklaus	I also vaguely remember having used some csh on SGI Irix in the mid nineties
2021-07-04 04:43:04	-->	autopsy (~autopsy@2600:8800:ff0d:400:6902:6d89:dbdb:438) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:43:12	rudi_s	thermatix: Hm, looks like your getent passwd doesn't like ids. Anyway, is the shell properly listed for your username?
2021-07-04 04:43:19	rudi_s	And again, what do you expect to happen.
2021-07-04 04:43:37	mitsukage	rudi_s i joined it and i told there  that i joined to learn to use it
2021-07-04 04:43:38	autopsy	They changed my meds so now I'm not psychotic.
2021-07-04 04:43:41	thermatix	ooh I forgot to check
2021-07-04 04:43:41	-->	FuriousGeorge30 (~FuriousGe@pool-71-125-70-201.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 04:43:59	thermatix	it's /bin/zsh
2021-07-04 04:44:05	mitsukage	I will wait for answers
2021-07-04 04:44:12	-->	FuriousGeorge28 (~FuriousGe@pool-71-125-70-201.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:44:23	thermatix	I'm going to reloging in again and then re-read the errors, I could be miss-understanding it?
2021-07-04 04:44:37	rudi_s	thermatix: Errors?
2021-07-04 04:44:47	autopsy	rudi_s, thats what he said.
2021-07-04 04:44:52	jim	well doing dev stuff on a mac cost serious money (for the most part), on linux it's mostly free
2021-07-04 04:44:57	--	FuriousGeorge is now known as Guest718
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2021-07-04 04:45:04	thermatix	I got my mac on the cheap
2021-07-04 04:45:07	thermatix	but I'ts kinda old now
2021-07-04 04:45:12	thermatix	hence this new laptop
2021-07-04 04:45:16	thermatix	and switching to linux
2021-07-04 04:45:21	thermatix	yeah errors
2021-07-04 04:45:26	<--	arcturus (~arcturus@gateway/tor-sasl/arcturus) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:45:30	thermatix	after I click login
2021-07-04 04:45:37	<--	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-04 04:45:37	rudi_s	Well, let me rephrase: What exact errors and what are you doing and what do you expect to happen?
2021-07-04 04:45:57	autopsy	He wants it to login him using zsh damnit.
2021-07-04 04:46:14	<--	node1_ (~node1@103.206.8.74) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:46:25	-->	Nokaji (~Nokaji@user/nokaji) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:46:31	TJ-	If thermatrix is using a GUI my bet is its the terminal emulator setting :)
2021-07-04 04:46:42	-->	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:46:45	TJ-	If thermatrix is using a GUI my bet is its the terminal emulator setting :)
2021-07-04 04:46:57	autopsy	LOL
2021-07-04 04:46:58	<--	Guest718 (~FuriousGe@pool-71-125-70-201.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:46:58	Sauvin	autopsy, you DO seem to be a lot more lucid tonight. It's actually very pleasant.
2021-07-04 04:47:00	 *	TJ- has prescience!
2021-07-04 04:47:24	thermatix	ok, so the errors is that it's not finding what I think to be zsh specific commands (Which is why I thought it was the shell not being recognised)
2021-07-04 04:47:36	thermatix	like ztyle
2021-07-04 04:47:38	TJ-	thermatix: are you using a GUI terminal emulator?
2021-07-04 04:47:39	<--	gr33n7007h (~gr33n7007@user/gr33n7007h) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 04:47:40	thermatix	zstyle*
2021-07-04 04:47:44	autopsy	Sauvin, yeah the old stuff was giving me QT prolongation a delayed heart beat on the potassium channel so they changed it, I could have died.
2021-07-04 04:47:48	TJ-	thermatix: and, also, what does "echo $SHELL" report?
2021-07-04 04:48:08	thermatix	currently just the build in one which I believe is gnome?
2021-07-04 04:48:13	thermatix	built*
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2021-07-04 04:48:34	thermatix	$SHELL == /bin/zsh
2021-07-04 04:48:34	autopsy	thermatix, you don't know what a shell is?
2021-07-04 04:48:41	thermatix	I know what a shell is
2021-07-04 04:48:41	TJ-	thermatix: gnome-terminal - check it's config. It will have an option to select the shell and my bet is, that is bash
2021-07-04 04:48:53	thermatix	the problem isn't the terminal, it's when I first login to the OS
2021-07-04 04:48:59	thermatix	but I'll check that as well
2021-07-04 04:49:09	autopsy	thermatix, press ctrl-alt-f2
2021-07-04 04:49:15	TJ-	thermatix: otherwise, if commands are missing are you sure they're built into the shell?
2021-07-04 04:49:17	autopsy	thermatix, login and what do you get?
2021-07-04 04:49:29	-->	tesseract (~tesseract@user/tesseract) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 04:49:57	thermatix	a bunch of errors about not being able to find commands like zstyle, zmodload, autoload, compinit, setopt, bindkey
2021-07-04 04:50:00	autopsy	They keep changing the tty Gnjome is on.
2021-07-04 04:50:11	rudi_s	thermatix: How do you see these errors? What program reports them?
2021-07-04 04:50:43	autopsy	They -> Fedora
2021-07-04 04:50:50	TJ-	thermatix: can you cause them by simply doing "/bin/zsh" ?
2021-07-04 04:50:52	thermatix	a gui system popup
2021-07-04 04:50:55	-->	HumbleGuy (~HumbleGuy@2a00:1858:1018:8514::3) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:51:11	thermatix	when entering the terminal no errors occur
2021-07-04 04:51:21	thermatix	only when logging in
2021-07-04 04:51:25	Kyv	thermatix: did you write your own ~/.zshrc?
2021-07-04 04:51:28	<--	koo6 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:51:32	TJ-	thermatix: and this isn't a regular Ubuntu but some derivative?
2021-07-04 04:51:35	autopsy	See I know, just execute the shell you want.
2021-07-04 04:51:45	autopsy	Debian.
2021-07-04 04:51:45	<--	Judabuda (~ok@user/judabuda) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-04 04:52:09	thermatix	yes I have my own .zshrc but it doesn't do anything crazy and regolith is ubuntu with a different DM
2021-07-04 04:52:11	autopsy	You guys are not on top of things tonigyht I see.
2021-07-04 04:52:14	TJ-	thermatix: do you get similar errors via a VT console (e.g. tty1)
2021-07-04 04:52:38	autopsy	TJ-, thats what I told him to press ctrl-alt-f2 or go into a tty.
2021-07-04 04:52:52	autopsy	VT rather.
2021-07-04 04:52:56	<--	oxum (~oxum@136.185.148.86) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 04:53:01	TJ-	it is beginning to feel like something is hard-coded in the GUI to use something other than the user's default shell
2021-07-04 04:53:18	-->	lemonzest (~lemonzest@user/lemonzest) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 04:53:21	TJ-	and this 'different DM' may well be the cause
2021-07-04 04:53:23	<--	thermatix (~thermatix@84.71.78.203) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-04 04:53:34	mitsukage	i wounder why some chanels are silent
2021-07-04 04:53:34	autopsy	I'm still confused as to what VT tty and pts means, I thihnkn pts is psuedoterminal like what you get on secure shell logins.
2021-07-04 04:53:39	<--	nolesswrong (~nolesswro@45.63.110.46) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 04:53:56	rudi_s	Maybe something like .xsession, .xsessionrc, .xinitrc, etc. in your home? Do any of these files exist and do "weird" stuff.
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2021-07-04 04:54:13	autopsy	Yes they are all weird.
2021-07-04 04:54:25	autopsy	They all do weird stuff to him at least.
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2021-07-04 04:54:26	Kyv	well this is going places now
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2021-07-04 04:55:42	thermatix	give me a moment and I'll share the error with you
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2021-07-04 05:05:22	thermatix	ok here are the errors -> https://postimg.cc/dDJwPNPd
2021-07-04 05:05:42	thermatix	sorry that took so long, the regular image thing  i use was not working properly
2021-07-04 05:06:02	thermatix	image might be a little large
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2021-07-04 05:06:45	Kyv	thermatix: what does your ~/.profile look like?
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2021-07-04 05:07:55	thermatix	 #!/bin/sh
2021-07-04 05:07:55	thermatix	   2   │
2021-07-04 05:07:56	thermatix	   3 ~ │ . .zshrc
2021-07-04 05:08:12	thermatix	i'm starting to get the feeling that sourcing .zshrc is not a good idea
2021-07-04 05:08:15	Kyv	take your ~/.zshrc out of your ~/.profile
2021-07-04 05:08:54	jim	well probably you shouldn't source it in a shell that's not zsh
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2021-07-04 05:09:16	Kyv	You definitely do not source that file in ~/.profile.
2021-07-04 05:09:24	jim	unless you -know- you're writing in a subset of the shell language
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2021-07-04 05:11:46	thermatix	is there an online resource that explains what you can and can't put into .profile?
2021-07-04 05:12:14	thermatix	it's just I wanted to ensure that both my terminal and login session have the same environment
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2021-07-04 05:12:35	thermatix	I've had isssues in the past where they were both not working from the same env (like not having the same $PATH for example)
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2021-07-04 05:12:55	Kyv	thermatix: if you want that then you should do as I suggested, after you learn what a profile file should contain.
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2021-07-04 05:13:03	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-07-04 05:13:03	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-07-04 05:13:03	--	Mode #linux [-bo $a:earendel litharge] by litharge
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2021-07-04 05:13:25	Kyv	You can create ~/.profile, and then source ~/.profile in your shell-specific profile files.
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2021-07-04 05:13:30	jim	thermatix, from what I understand, the .profile is for sh-like shells, such as bash
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2021-07-04 05:13:51	Kyv	Whatever you want to add that is shell-specific in itself should also be in the shell-specific file.
2021-07-04 05:14:31	Kyv	This way you have a single point of controlling the env for all interactive shells.
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2021-07-04 05:15:18	thermatix	So I removed  . .zshrc
2021-07-04 05:15:27	Kyv	If you want to know about the specific files, there is lots of documentation on this, including the shell man pages, which specifies which files are sourced under what conditions.
2021-07-04 05:15:38	thermatix	and instead moved things like env stuff and PATH to there own files and now I just source them instead
2021-07-04 05:15:53	thermatix	and after re-loging in the errors went away
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2021-07-04 05:16:41	Kyv	thermatix: there are 18 manuals that come with zsh
2021-07-04 05:17:28	rudi_s	thermatix: Yes, that's the best solution. I do the same.
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2021-07-04 05:17:53	thermatix	Ok, thank you for that lesson
2021-07-04 05:18:05	thermatix	welp, it's all fine and dandy now
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2021-07-04 05:18:25	thermatix	so I'll just go back to mucking about with my nvim init.lua file now :p
2021-07-04 05:18:43	thermatix	thank you for your help
2021-07-04 05:18:46	Kyv	thermatix: and there is always the ArchWiki too
2021-07-04 05:18:58	Kyv	which is useful, as usual
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2021-07-04 05:23:43	autopsy	Anybody got a clue as to why gnome-initial-setup after clicking start using Fedora goes away and never presents the Gnome activities menu?
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2021-07-04 05:26:35	lacroix	autopsy, reboot
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2021-07-04 05:27:21	autopsy	lacroix, well we did then it just boots up and brings me back to gnome-initial-setup again.
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2021-07-04 05:37:17	Kyv	hope that person takes the shebang out of there too :\
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2021-07-04 05:38:33	lacroix	autopsy, you're probably on Gnome Classic? I'll be back in a few
2021-07-04 05:38:49	lacroix	busy sunday morning here.
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2021-07-04 05:46:58	 *	ignapk < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/8065fdcd5b084653173bd0e8fa0bdfebb1b74e0f/message.txt >
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2021-07-04 05:47:40	ignapk	Or should I not bother waiting and restart operation/reboot
2021-07-04 05:49:32	jim	I dunno where you're at, but you should probably wait
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2021-07-04 05:52:57	autopsy	Does anybody know where the source code for gnome-intiial-setup is located?
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2021-07-04 05:54:08	jim	I guess all of that stuff is gnu project, so it's gotta be somewhere
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2021-07-04 05:54:55	jim	https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-initial-setup
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2021-07-04 05:55:25	autopsy	jim, I could download an SRPM but I want to just browse the one file I'm sure its modular but If i find it I'll know what its doing thats keeping the desktop from appearing.
2021-07-04 05:56:00	jim	look at the repo I just posted
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2021-07-04 05:59:45	autopsy	jim, I am looking now. It seems its a C file.
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2021-07-04 06:09:56	jim	do you know c pretty good?
2021-07-04 06:10:13	autopsy	jim, I think its the handoff to Gnome Tour that is the breaking point.
2021-07-04 06:10:22	autopsy	jim, I don't.
2021-07-04 06:11:05	jim	hmm, that's not so good...
2021-07-04 06:11:23	autopsy	Yeah but I can kinda read it and get the gist of it.
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2021-07-04 06:16:47	ilinux-lover	iLinux Start Page: https://hello.ilinuxos.com
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2021-07-04 06:17:16	lopid	is this spam now?
2021-07-04 06:17:29	ilinux-lover	No spam.
2021-07-04 06:17:37	ilinux-lover	It's a useful link.
2021-07-04 06:18:18	Kyv	Yeah, no.
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2021-07-04 06:37:20	HumbleGuy	i added kali repositories to debian and now neofetch recognizes my machine as kali linux
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2021-07-04 06:37:51	autopsy	Oh noes! Repository sickness!
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2021-07-04 06:38:10	autopsy	Like we know what neofetch is.
2021-07-04 06:38:11	Kyv	better apt purge redditfetch
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2021-07-04 06:38:25	autopsy	dnf remove facebookmania
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2021-07-04 06:42:16	hexnewbie	alphabet := alphabet \ [abcefok]
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2021-07-04 06:54:06	shan	hi
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2021-07-04 06:55:13	Kyv	HumbleGuy: is that Siduction you're running?
2021-07-04 06:55:49	Kyv	I am looking at the source to reddit fetch and much of it is one long `if` statement testing against /etc/*-release to determine the distro.
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2021-07-04 06:56:20	HumbleGuy	Kyv, its actually debian stable on wsl2
2021-07-04 06:57:05	HumbleGuy	oh well, its kali now
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2021-07-04 06:59:13	Kyv	you can always run `neofetch --ascii_distro debian` whenever you miss it
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2021-07-04 06:59:54	Kyv	hell, you could be on whatever distro you want
2021-07-04 07:00:20	Kyv	it saves all the jumping around
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2021-07-04 07:04:14	HumbleGuy	Kyv, its not a matter of neofetch, my system literally transformed to kali linux https://pastebin.com/a9D2yQFm
2021-07-04 07:04:42	wigums	HumbleGuy now you know what happens when you do that
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2021-07-04 07:05:53	HumbleGuy	wigums, but why, can't i leave my system to be debian while still having the kali repositories?
2021-07-04 07:05:54	ilinux-lover	Oh! It's a Transformer! ;-P
2021-07-04 07:06:07	Kyv	the chutzpah of these people
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2021-07-04 07:07:21	Kyv	it is a Debian-based distro
2021-07-04 07:07:35	Kyv	they must think they're doing you a favor
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2021-07-04 07:08:37	Kyv	Did anything else change besides that?
2021-07-04 07:09:32	Kyv	Your graphical environment, or shell, or anything, for example.
2021-07-04 07:09:45	HumbleGuy	nothing besides when i install a package it install ONLY from kali repository, i don't know how it would impact the rest since i dont have a graphical enviroment
2021-07-04 07:10:15	Kyv	Did you add this repo manually?
2021-07-04 07:10:23	HumbleGuy	well i could pretendi use debian
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2021-07-04 07:11:16	HumbleGuy	yeah
2021-07-04 07:11:17	jason1235	is it possible that linux drops systemd? openrc is way better. debian wont return to better, ... can miracle occur?
2021-07-04 07:11:59	Kyv	use a distro that doesnt use systemd
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2021-07-04 07:12:22	colo	systemd is love. systemd is life.
2021-07-04 07:12:25	ivaat	jason1235: devuan
2021-07-04 07:12:29	ivaat	colo: bs
2021-07-04 07:12:42	ivaat	jason1235: devuan distro should be your liking then
2021-07-04 07:13:27	Kyv	or Artix, Alpine, Void, Gentoo..
2021-07-04 07:13:39	<--	hrtk (~hritik@223.233.64.226) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 07:13:41	Kyv	or KISS :)
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2021-07-04 07:13:55	jason1235	devuan is too close to systemd ... same junk
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2021-07-04 07:14:00	jim	kali, they derived most of their stuff from debian and maybe also ubuntu, it looks like they didn't really finish it, so it isn't meant to be "installed" like debian or ubuntu would be, and also weird things went wrong, tried to get someone to install netcat on it (for pastebin use to termbin)... netcat being a pretty simple package, the installation didn't work, so I found that to be -weird-, and never recommended its use
2021-07-04 07:15:10	jim	maybe someone could install debian and get the source packages for the "tools" normally found in kali
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2021-07-04 07:15:32	jim	that would likely give you a more solid installation
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2021-07-04 07:16:44	HumbleGuy	how do i make so normal packages install from debian repository, and only tools that that doesnt exist in debian to be installed from kali
2021-07-04 07:16:50	Kyv	seems a bit malwarish for a pen-testing distro, meta-distro, or whatever it's supposed to be.
2021-07-04 07:16:52	HumbleGuy	is there a priority system like in gentoo
2021-07-04 07:16:59	jason1235	is there a distro that can be debootstraped with C language ?
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2021-07-04 07:17:21	jason1235	(without using bash).
2021-07-04 07:17:47	Kyv	if it wasnt debian and the packages weren't older than dirt you could just as well install the kit yourself.
2021-07-04 07:18:06	jason1235	is there a fetcher of a linux distro of a rootfs that does not use bash?
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2021-07-04 07:19:46	jim	jason1235, most installers will probably require bash (and maybe also perl and python) in order to support installing packages that use maint scripts written in those languages
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2021-07-04 07:20:02	hexnewbie	HumbleGuy: Which tools don't exist in Debian?
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2021-07-04 07:20:23	HumbleGuy	hexnewbie, pen-testing tools
2021-07-04 07:20:54	hexnewbie	HumbleGuy: Use Kali as a live ISO, VM or boot it in a chroot? Debian does include pen testing tools
2021-07-04 07:21:27	<--	ackyshake (~ackyshake@user/ackyshake) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-04 07:21:30	hexnewbie	HumbleGuy: Also: https://www.kali.org/docs/containers/
2021-07-04 07:21:57	HumbleGuy	thanks
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2021-07-04 07:23:45	Kyv	https://www.kali.org/docs/introduction/should-i-use-kali-linux/
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2021-07-04 07:24:28	Kyv	Fair enough, they put it in perspective in the documentation mostly no one bothers to read.
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2021-07-04 07:25:57	HumbleGuy	great
2021-07-04 07:26:07	Kyv	The reason the sources are behaving differently now is probably to keep Kali congruent on the system.
2021-07-04 07:27:01	Kyv	Unless they are just incorrectly ordered in your list.
2021-07-04 07:27:54	HumbleGuy	they are located at the bottom, first are debian repositories
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2021-07-04 07:28:34	HumbleGuy	i tried commeting out kali repository but nothing is changes, apt refuses to install from debian
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2021-07-04 07:30:38	jim	HumbleGuy, it might if you had debian installed
2021-07-04 07:31:09	jim	(kali is so broken I'm surprised anything works in it)
2021-07-04 07:31:39	Kyv	They say its for 'professionals'
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2021-07-04 07:31:45	HumbleGuy	should i just erase my system and start from  scratch?
2021-07-04 07:32:02	Kyv	and uses a custom kernel too
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2021-07-04 07:34:17	Kyv	Do you have Timeshift or anything installed, HumbleGuy?
2021-07-04 07:34:47	HumbleGuy	haven't heard of this
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2021-07-04 08:17:42	Helmholtz1	Is it possible to view data in the middle of a pipeline? cmd1 | cmd2 | cmd3
2021-07-04 08:17:59	Helmholtz1	How to printout output of cmd2 (and also feed it into cmd3)?
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2021-07-04 08:18:43	phogg	Helmholtz1: tee
2021-07-04 08:19:06	Helmholtz1	phogg, tee into a logfile, then tail -f log?
2021-07-04 08:19:10	phogg	yes
2021-07-04 08:19:25	Helmholtz1	phogg, what is this pv?
2021-07-04 08:19:29	Helmholtz1	pipeviewer
2021-07-04 08:19:37	Helmholtz1	Is it unrelated?
2021-07-04 08:19:52	phogg	not unrelated, but not what you want in this case
2021-07-04 08:21:11	Helmholtz1	phogg, so tee is the only utility here? anything else in moreutils like vipe?
2021-07-04 08:21:26	phogg	vipe interrupts the flow of data
2021-07-04 08:21:53	phogg	for very large pipelines (lots of data) it isn't a great idea
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2021-07-04 08:22:26	Helmholtz1	phogg, because the write in previous pipe may get blocked by editor?
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2021-07-04 08:23:33	phogg	more because the write to the next process is blocked, and also because I believe it buffers the entire input
2021-07-04 08:23:56	Helmholtz1	Is there a CLI tool to automatically graph a live feed of csv data?  like generate_csv | plotter
2021-07-04 08:24:11	phogg	several make the attempt
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2021-07-04 08:24:29	Helmholtz1	How could such a tool work? when it gets data it plot, then it should exit, shouldn't it?
2021-07-04 08:24:36	phogg	Helmholtz1: this SO thread references quite a few https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4585770/gnuplot-stdin-how-to-plot-two-lines
2021-07-04 08:24:38	Helmholtz1	so it can't be live
2021-07-04 08:24:55	phogg	it depends on how it works. You have to make some choices
2021-07-04 08:25:24	phogg	if there was a simple, obviously-correct answer then a tool for charting would probably have been standardized in the 80s
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2021-07-04 08:25:43	Helmholtz1	phogg, plotter should never exit...then what would be the time-difference between graphs?
2021-07-04 08:25:57	phogg	er, sorry, wrong link
2021-07-04 08:26:01	phogg	bookmarks, how do they work?
2021-07-04 08:26:17	Helmholtz1	I mean ,it somehow feels like such a tool could never be written with limitation of unix pipes
2021-07-04 08:26:36	phogg	Helmholtz1: this is the right one: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/123378/command-line-unix-ascii-based-charting-plotting-tool
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2021-07-04 08:26:47	phogg	I happened to be looking in to this the other day and had some tabs still open
2021-07-04 08:27:11	Helmholtz1	phogg, first comment...classic SO (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2021-07-04 08:27:18	phogg	you can't do it with *just* stdin
2021-07-04 08:27:47	Helmholtz1	phogg, ah...so my n00b hunch was right
2021-07-04 08:27:47	phogg	not if you want continuous updating anyway
2021-07-04 08:28:24	phogg	or you need a less-than-simple data format
2021-07-04 08:28:24	Helmholtz1	phogg, What if the plotter sends data via a TCP socket to a js consumer?
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2021-07-04 08:28:45	phogg	a pipe is a pipe
2021-07-04 08:28:56	phogg	everything is a file, a pipe is a file where you can't seek (so is a socket)
2021-07-04 08:29:05	phogg	so there's no difference
2021-07-04 08:29:21	phogg	if you want to send some structured data as a series of records then you can use a single stream
2021-07-04 08:29:29	phogg	but now you need an agreed-upon record format
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2021-07-04 08:30:05	Helmholtz1	phogg, Yes the actual format is structured...I thought converting it to csv would make it easier for a plotter
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2021-07-04 08:30:17	Helmholtz1	And just as you said, I thought this was sovled in the 80s
2021-07-04 08:30:23	phogg	only if you happen to have a plotter intended for CSV (there are some)
2021-07-04 08:30:49	Helmholtz1	phogg, so you are sayign the problem is with format not pipes?
2021-07-04 08:31:02	Helmholtz1	meaning a live plotter for say google proto buff exits?
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2021-07-04 08:31:26	phogg	I don't know that it exists, but it could. Not for "any protobuff" but for a specific one
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2021-07-04 08:33:53	Helmholtz1	phogg, that link you mentioned is for ASCII...Is the situation the same for other front-ends
2021-07-04 08:34:00	Helmholtz1	I think you said yes (my TCP idea)
2021-07-04 08:34:34	phogg	doesn't really matter what your display mechanic is. For a command line/terminal situation you have a harder time than others, because you may well not be able to redraw any part of the screen
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2021-07-04 08:43:21	Helmholtz1	( ⋂‿⋂)
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2021-07-04 08:47:28	Kyv	is that a couple at the movies
2021-07-04 08:47:37	 *	Kyv kicks the backs of their seats
2021-07-04 08:47:51	phogg	you're one of those
2021-07-04 08:48:52	Kyv	shoulda netflixed and chilled
2021-07-04 08:49:31	Helmholtz1	It was supposed to be an emoticon ( ⋂‿⋂’)
2021-07-04 08:49:35	Helmholtz1	(*^▽^*)
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2021-07-04 08:50:09	phogg	I don't know either of those
2021-07-04 08:50:19	Helmholtz1	happy face
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2021-07-04 08:51:02	phogg	traditionally you spell that (-: or :-) or at (: or :)
2021-07-04 08:51:03	bonsai	Do someone know squid ?
2021-07-04 08:51:12	phogg	I've eaten squid. Does that count?
2021-07-04 08:51:19	Helmholtz1	＜コ：ミ
2021-07-04 08:51:24	bonsai	:f
2021-07-04 08:51:27	phogg	bonsai: better just to ask your question and see if someone knows the answer
2021-07-04 08:52:05	bonsai	ok
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2021-07-04 08:52:20	plasma	:D
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2021-07-04 08:52:25	Kyv	time removed their noses
2021-07-04 08:52:30	plasma	i know squid!
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2021-07-04 08:53:00	Kyv	or is that a philtrum
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2021-07-04 09:23:27	parnikkapore	Hi, Web speech synthesis is somehow broken on my computer - Both Firefox and Chromium report no voices available, even though I installed espeak and speech-dispatcher and restarted a couple of times
2021-07-04 09:23:39	parnikkapore	Can anyone help me? I am on KDE Neon.
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2021-07-04 09:55:02	LinuxGuy2020	Has anyone tried the new PopOS 21.04 release that includes the nvidia driver? It boots to the desktop and then falls back to a terminal. Not sure if this is happening to everyone or not.
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2021-07-04 10:14:28	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-07-04 10:55:38	fdan	HI
2021-07-04 10:55:44	pyzozord	hi, how can I mount a bin/cue images as cdroms?
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2021-07-04 10:58:28	twainwek	good evening all
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2021-07-04 10:59:39	toropisco	pyzozord, bin2iso will work
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2021-07-04 11:07:11	-->	CoolerX (~CoolerX@user/coolerx) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 11:07:12	CoolerX	Hi
2021-07-04 11:07:26	CoolerX	nc -l 8080 isn't great at handling binary requests
2021-07-04 11:07:33	CoolerX	it prints the binary data to the terminal
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2021-07-04 11:07:38	CoolerX	which screws things up
2021-07-04 11:07:44	CoolerX	is there a way to avoid that?
2021-07-04 11:07:55	CoolerX	> /dev/null will get rid of all output
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2021-07-04 11:08:17	CoolerX	I would like to see the request headers, etc.
2021-07-04 11:09:08	Khaytsus	CoolerX: WHat in the world are you even doing?
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2021-07-04 11:09:35	CoolerX	Khaytsus, just uploading a file to it
2021-07-04 11:09:47	 *	Khaytsus blinks
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2021-07-04 11:12:31	euouae	Hello where can I learn about Linux networking?
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2021-07-04 11:12:43	hodapp	what do you want to know about it?
2021-07-04 11:12:45	euouae	I found a Linux networking 101 book which I plan to read
2021-07-04 11:13:03	euouae	just general knowledge beyond what I already know, which is nothing
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2021-07-04 11:13:28	paulcarroty	you need a CCNA book
2021-07-04 11:14:38	paulcarroty	if you wanna theoretical way then maybe grab Kurose&Ross
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2021-07-04 11:14:47	euouae	Nice cheers. I have programming knowledge and some Linux knowledge
2021-07-04 11:15:00	euouae	do you think this is appropriate to go for? I’m a hobbyist
2021-07-04 11:15:12	euouae	my job is not related to computers
2021-07-04 11:15:28	paulcarroty	it is
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2021-07-04 11:15:33	fling	euouae: computers are bad
2021-07-04 11:16:08	CoolerX	euouae, https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networking-Top-Down-Approach-7th/dp/0133594149
2021-07-04 11:17:01	paulcarroty	^ good book
2021-07-04 11:17:10	CoolerX	euouae, are you planning to work on some project?
2021-07-04 11:17:12	euouae	Looks good but oh man so expensive
2021-07-04 11:17:21	euouae	No I’m just trying to install gentoo
2021-07-04 11:17:31	euouae	I’m interested in having more control over my Linux system
2021-07-04 11:17:32	CoolerX	euouae, you can pirate it
2021-07-04 11:17:43	euouae	yeah but I don’t believe in piracy
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2021-07-04 11:17:57	paulcarroty	pirate then donate, lol
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2021-07-04 11:18:21	euouae	The problem with piracy is that it is illegal
2021-07-04 11:18:33	euouae	It’s not about a moral issue
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2021-07-04 11:19:01	hodapp	illegality depends on jurisdiction; in a lot of areas it is a matter of civil law, not criminal
2021-07-04 11:19:34	hodapp	at least until you get into the territory of things like commercial piracy and re-selling
2021-07-04 11:19:37	euouae	I don’t know what that means, sounds like you’re talking about the severity of it
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2021-07-04 11:19:38	lacroix	CoolerX, promoting "piracy" is clearly not allowed in this channel. Keep that in mind please.
2021-07-04 11:19:42	paulcarroty	https://book.systemsapproach.org/index.html free book, good for practical skills
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2021-07-04 11:20:40	euouae	Paulcarroty awesome thank you !!
2021-07-04 11:21:15	cadderly	"it's more fun to be a pirate" ~Mr Monk
2021-07-04 11:21:59	HumbleGuy	cadderly, depends in what country you live, if in Germany for example - not so fun
2021-07-04 11:22:10	euouae	There’s multiple issues with piracy, one being that you give up your security
2021-07-04 11:22:21	hodapp	ehh?
2021-07-04 11:22:26	paulcarroty	you can be jailed in UK
2021-07-04 11:22:30	euouae	Another being that you might end up supporting a regime
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2021-07-04 11:22:42	HumbleGuy	i live in a country where there are no anti-piracy laws so...
2021-07-04 11:22:44	autopsy	Hey this computer starts booting the kernel and just stops at a pci address list and MSI quirk detected subordinate MSI disabled
2021-07-04 11:22:58	cadderly	god forbid the rich people aren't rich enough
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2021-07-04 11:23:20	euouae	It’s not about profits
2021-07-04 11:23:38	autopsy	Ive tried pci=nomsi but it still stops
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2021-07-04 11:23:49	euouae	Piracy is an aspect of cyber warfare
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2021-07-04 11:24:01	autopsy	What can i do to fix it?
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2021-07-04 11:26:20	CoolerX	lacroix, ok
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2021-07-04 11:27:20	CoolerX	euouae, there's tons of free resources
2021-07-04 11:27:39	CoolerX	MDN is a good place to start
2021-07-04 11:27:40	CoolerX	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP
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2021-07-04 11:29:29	CoolerX	euouae, also youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOtA76ga_fY&list=PLBMO3ORTdwldCqlHVcbJSOa3GxLS6bpeE
2021-07-04 11:29:37	euouae	Coolerx yeah that’s http though
2021-07-04 11:29:49	euouae	I understand http and tcp and idpw
2021-07-04 11:29:51	euouae	Udp
2021-07-04 11:30:07	euouae	That’s fine, it’s the things that come before that I do t get
2021-07-04 11:30:09	CoolerX	oh you want stuff specific to managing linux networks?
2021-07-04 11:30:11	autopsy	You guys dont understand
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2021-07-04 11:30:55	felco	euouae while Gentoo gives you more granular control over the softwares that get installed, it at the same demands from you more cautiousness about the overall security of your system
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2021-07-04 11:30:55	firepup	ok.. can someone help me get rid of a broken installation of glibc? i unfortunately installed it into an directory in /opt that also contains other libraries. is there a way to remove the glibc without touching anything else?
2021-07-04 11:31:01	euouae	I want to understand what’s the role of a modem a router, an isp, dns server, the network devices, what’s dhcp, what’s an ip, what’s …
2021-07-04 11:31:01	autopsy	Firepup yes
2021-07-04 11:31:27	CoolerX	euouae, yeah look at that youtube link
2021-07-04 11:31:34	euouae	Felco; yeah I’m aware of that. I’m going to prepare very carefully
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2021-07-04 11:31:39	firepup	autopsy can you give me the steps to remove it then
2021-07-04 11:31:44	CoolerX	euouae, also this https://www.udacity.com/course/computer-networking--ud436
2021-07-04 11:31:46	autopsy	Firepup rm *.so
2021-07-04 11:31:52	firepup	....
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2021-07-04 11:31:56	felco	euouae I would suggest you to get deep into the Debian documentation, also the Gentoo and Arch documentations are very valuable.
2021-07-04 11:32:05	firepup	that will delete the other libraries i have installed autopsy
2021-07-04 11:32:16	euouae	For security or networking felco?
2021-07-04 11:32:31	felco	Yes, also you may want to read articles in general
2021-07-04 11:33:19	autopsy	Firepup did you think to run an install to a blank directory ... get a files list from it then rm the files from /opt
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2021-07-04 11:34:06	autopsy	Firepup do a fake install to /tmp/glibc
2021-07-04 11:34:11	firepup	oh.
2021-07-04 11:34:14	firepup	thx then
2021-07-04 11:34:25	autopsy	Duh asshat
2021-07-04 11:34:33	euouae	Good stuff thank you all
2021-07-04 11:34:37	felco	euouae while it is paid service, I like the knowledge database from Red Hat, it used to be open for developers but now it is, for the most part, closed to subscribers.
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2021-07-04 11:35:02	autopsy	Redhats docs are the best
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2021-07-04 11:35:19	euouae	I don’t pay for services sorry guys but I’m in debt
2021-07-04 11:35:20	Guest19	hi
2021-07-04 11:35:27	Guest19	all money$ is debt
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2021-07-04 11:35:29	Guest19	by design
2021-07-04 11:35:30	euouae	gotta be frugal
2021-07-04 11:35:38	Guest19	the only way to pay off debt... is to get more debt to pay off the interest
2021-07-04 11:35:41	Guest19	thats how the system grows
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2021-07-04 11:35:44	Guest19	eternal debt
2021-07-04 11:35:49	felco	But big communities/distros don't leave behind with good documentations, also you have IRC logs and Forums
2021-07-04 11:35:54	paulcarroty	there's free RH subscription
2021-07-04 11:35:56	akik	firepup: did you add the /opt path to ldconfig ?
2021-07-04 11:36:13	CoolerX	euouae, no the udacity course is free
2021-07-04 11:36:18	firepup	yes i did akik..
2021-07-04 11:36:20	CoolerX	you don't have to pay
2021-07-04 11:36:30	euouae	Nice! I’m going to get invested in all this stuff
2021-07-04 11:36:31	autopsy	Akik hes trying to remove it not configure it
2021-07-04 11:36:32	-->	jean (~jean@user/jean) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 11:36:32	akik	firepup: i guess that was the mistkae
2021-07-04 11:36:33	paulcarroty	also you can get RH for free up to 16 instances
2021-07-04 11:36:36	felco	afaik Udacity is paid
2021-07-04 11:36:48	felco	edX/Coursera are free
2021-07-04 11:36:48	CoolerX	euouae, youtube is the best free resource
2021-07-04 11:36:51	euouae	It will probably take me many months to go through it I’m only studying 1-2 days a week at most
2021-07-04 11:37:04	Guest19	Invested how?
2021-07-04 11:37:07	Guest19	Its free software
2021-07-04 11:37:09	Guest19	clean code
2021-07-04 11:37:32	Guest19	1. Build a computer at home 2. Code a quantum computer 3. build a AI which overcomes human intelligence
2021-07-04 11:37:33	CoolerX	Guest19, time investment
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2021-07-04 11:37:44	paulcarroty	edx transfered to 3rd commercial company, coursera is paywalled
2021-07-04 11:37:46	NthDegree	felco, most of the KB is just existing articles reformatted with extra SEO to make sure the originals don't show up
2021-07-04 11:38:12	felco	sad
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2021-07-04 11:38:47	Guest19	pdfdrive.com
2021-07-04 11:38:49	autopsy	Firepup did that help?
2021-07-04 11:38:50	Guest19	free ebooks ^
2021-07-04 11:38:53	bewees	hi, I tried running QEMU with libvirt XML Domain using the commandline directive to pass QEMU CLI options, yet I get "GTK Initialization failed". What could I be missing? https://dpaste.org/qYnA
2021-07-04 11:38:56	NthDegree	felco, example: https://access.redhat.com/solutions/1578673
2021-07-04 11:38:59	Guest19	https://www.pdfdrive.com/
2021-07-04 11:39:09	NthDegree	to quote it "This solution was based on a blog post by Red Hat's Dan Walsh: 'CVE-2015-4495 and SELinux', Or why doesn't SELinux confine Firefox? (external link)"
2021-07-04 11:39:34	felco	what a joke, you guys heard that IBM is drifiting with its email service? oh well, maybe redhat has something to offer them
2021-07-04 11:39:44	autopsy	Dan Walsh does all the Selinux magic
2021-07-04 11:39:47	NthDegree	People are mostly paying for convenience, almost all the documentation is available for free via Fedora
2021-07-04 11:39:57	paulcarroty	ibm had email service?
2021-07-04 11:39:58	firepup	yes autopsy ty
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2021-07-04 11:40:29	autopsy	Firepup yeah not a problem
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2021-07-04 11:40:40	NthDegree	autopsy, in the world of Red Hat he most certainly does, but there's Chris PeBenito when it comes to Gentoo and Russell Coker when it comes to Debian
2021-07-04 11:41:25	felco	its on slashdot... they planned for 18 months and the migration just got of the rails
2021-07-04 11:41:28	paulcarroty	a ton of people going to eat Centos bread
2021-07-04 11:41:32	autopsy	Ive never worked with them.
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2021-07-04 11:41:50	paulcarroty	not Debian or Gentoo for sure
2021-07-04 11:42:06	Guest19	Debian feels like a 2007 Linux experiene
2021-07-04 11:42:08	Guest19	it sitll works
2021-07-04 11:42:18	Guest19	still works good though
2021-07-04 11:42:30	Guest19	Lubuntu, is great however
2021-07-04 11:42:33	Guest19	its light, fast
2021-07-04 11:42:39	NthDegree	autopsy, I was very surprised and impressed when I found Reference Policy covered more apps on other distros relative to Fedora's fork of it
2021-07-04 11:42:41	onelegend	lubuntu is based on debian
2021-07-04 11:42:58	Mekaneck	onelegend: ubuntu
2021-07-04 11:43:07	onelegend	lubuntu is based on ubuntu, which is based on debian
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2021-07-04 11:43:14	felco	everything is based on Debian lol
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2021-07-04 11:43:31	felco	joking, but then... it is not completely false!
2021-07-04 11:43:37	autopsy	If you want light and fast just compile up a liveusb running fedora with fluxbox and bash in the kickstart file
2021-07-04 11:43:40	Guest19	ubuntu is based upon debian??
2021-07-04 11:43:43	onelegend	yeah
2021-07-04 11:43:43	paulcarroty	not everything
2021-07-04 11:43:45	felco	sure it is
2021-07-04 11:43:49	NthDegree	Guest19, yes it is
2021-07-04 11:43:56	Guest19	wow....
2021-07-04 11:44:04	Guest19	why does ubuntu feel modern and debian feel like 2007 os
2021-07-04 11:44:22	firepup	ubuntu is debian
2021-07-04 11:44:23	NthDegree	Guest19, marketing
2021-07-04 11:44:34	Guest19	Debian is the rock on which Ubuntu is built
2021-07-04 11:44:36	firepup	pretty much anything that spawned off of ubuntu is debina
2021-07-04 11:44:39	firepup	debian*
2021-07-04 11:44:42	Guest19	omg
2021-07-04 11:44:47	Guest19	I guess this is alright
2021-07-04 11:44:48	<--	goncho (~goncho@174.31.188.217) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-04 11:44:50	Guest19	It works great
2021-07-04 11:44:53	NthDegree	Debian packages everything equally, while Ubuntu targets core apps
2021-07-04 11:45:13	Mekaneck	because Debian doesn't do customizations either, all DE's are vanilla
2021-07-04 11:45:19	felco	Timeline of Linux Distributions, be amazed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#/media/File:Linux_Distribution_Timeline_27_02_21.svg
2021-07-04 11:45:45	Mekaneck	felco: don't let 'm faint
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2021-07-04 11:47:00	autopsy	Nevermind all this nonsense RedHat is the best
2021-07-04 11:47:25	NthDegree	Red Hat was the best when RHEL 6 was in its prime
2021-07-04 11:47:29	autopsy	God
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2021-07-04 11:47:55	NthDegree	RHEL 8 has been a dumpster fire
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2021-07-04 11:48:24	autopsy	Nthdegree why do uou say that?
2021-07-04 11:48:37	felco	oh man... linux from scratch! i never did it
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2021-07-04 11:49:09	NthDegree	autopsy, streams and all the focus on stuff which makes no sense for a distro like RHEL
2021-07-04 11:49:12	Guest19	Apex
2021-07-04 11:49:20	Guest19	Apex linux
2021-07-04 11:49:25	Guest19	Arch I mean
2021-07-04 11:49:26	euouae	It’s scary to have to build a Linux without a package manager
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2021-07-04 11:49:41	felco	it is completely possible
2021-07-04 11:49:59	autopsy	Nthdegree like what exactly?
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2021-07-04 11:50:51	NthDegree	autopsy, https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhel8-app-streams-life-cycle <-- look at that mess
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2021-07-04 11:51:35	NthDegree	and then you have all the focus on containers and the like when RHEL is the opposite of what you want to base containers on in the first place
2021-07-04 11:52:21	felco	NthDegree out of curiosity, are you a subscriber?
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2021-07-04 11:52:47	NthDegree	felco, a long time ago I did subscribe for a couple of years so I could have the real deal packages
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2021-07-04 11:53:14	felco	I almost did couple of years ago
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2021-07-04 11:53:33	felco	Was unsure if I would take advantage of it
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2021-07-04 11:54:01	onelegend	how do people create a .iso file
2021-07-04 11:54:09	hodapp	mkisofs?
2021-07-04 11:54:12	NthDegree	onelegend, mkisofs
2021-07-04 11:54:25	Guest19	`Tor Browser!
2021-07-04 11:54:27	onelegend	othx
2021-07-04 11:54:40	autopsy	growisofs too
2021-07-04 11:55:05	NthDegree	felco, I never really used it much, if at all. These days other distros have caught up a lot too
2021-07-04 11:55:13	onelegend	ventoy is so useful
2021-07-04 11:55:17	onelegend	even if you hate it
2021-07-04 11:55:26	NthDegree	Fedora still wins out on quick security patch response times (and by extension RHEL too)
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2021-07-04 11:55:45	felco	Yeah... nice to hear that, that is what I thought at the time
2021-07-04 11:55:46	NthDegree	and everything looks like it's very organised in Red Hat land
2021-07-04 11:55:50	esselfe	there's genisoimage too
2021-07-04 11:56:08	autopsy	Thanks esselfe
2021-07-04 11:56:38	NthDegree	but other distros have caught up a lot too. Like Ubuntu has definitely benefited a lot from Kees Cook who has got things to the point where they're competitive
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2021-07-04 11:57:29	onelegend	should I use brtfs with only one disk
2021-07-04 11:57:31	NthDegree	and Ubuntu has been upstreaming more and more stuff to get Debian to a better place than it was at back when Red Hat was steamrolling with innovations
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2021-07-04 11:57:42	felco	I've read an article, don't remember where, and thats can rise some passionate speech here.. but Ubuntu was more secure out-of-the-box than Fedora
2021-07-04 11:57:48	esselfe	oh genisoimage is a symlink to mkisofs...
2021-07-04 11:57:58	paulcarroty	Fedora has A LOT more resources & paid kernel devs than Ubuntu
2021-07-04 11:58:28	NthDegree	felco, that was partially true and untrue at the same time. Ubuntu was the first to do the whole "no open TCP ports by default" thing
2021-07-04 11:58:50	NthDegree	felco, but Fedora implemented SELinux to confine all the system daemons and Ubuntu is basically naked in that department by comparison
2021-07-04 11:58:59	onelegend	APPPARMOR
2021-07-04 11:59:13	onelegend	APPARMOR GANG
2021-07-04 11:59:16	onelegend	RISE UP!!!!
2021-07-04 11:59:18	firepup	what about no apparmor/selinux
2021-07-04 11:59:31	NthDegree	Yeah, Ubuntu has AppArmor but they still haven't implemented a full suite of policies
2021-07-04 11:59:36	onelegend	GRSEC
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2021-07-04 11:59:44	onelegend	how do people get those patches
2021-07-04 11:59:48	autopsy	yeah SELINUX was whacked upon for all its policy and its all working good
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2021-07-04 12:00:06	NthDegree	where Ubuntu did win over Fedora was with their homedir encryption
2021-07-04 12:00:12	onelegend	ECRYPTFS
2021-07-04 12:00:21	NthDegree	ecryptfs integration which "just worked" out of the box yeah onelegend
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2021-07-04 12:00:40	NthDegree	in recent years they buggered it tho lol
2021-07-04 12:00:43	onelegend	ah
2021-07-04 12:00:52	onelegend	what about the linux-hardened kernel?
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2021-07-04 12:01:09	Guest19	linux-hardened kernel, is this live in all ubuntu strains?
2021-07-04 12:01:13	onelegend	no
2021-07-04 12:01:16	autopsy	Redhat has kernel patches
2021-07-04 12:02:03	Guest19	Which Linux Distro is most secured by default? Other than qubues whoni
2021-07-04 12:02:04	onelegend	ok
2021-07-04 12:02:05	Guest19	whonix
2021-07-04 12:02:08	autopsy	What ever came to be of the live kernel patch thing?
2021-07-04 12:02:10	Guest19	such as by having linux-hardened kernel
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2021-07-04 12:02:25	firepup	the most secure is a no internet linux distro
2021-07-04 12:02:33	Guest19	Yeah yeah
2021-07-04 12:02:34	NthDegree	linux-hardened only protects the kernel these days but not userland
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2021-07-04 12:02:43	Guest19	linux-hardened kernel Distro list?
2021-07-04 12:02:47	NthDegree	as amd64 arch has all the relevant features mainlined
2021-07-04 12:03:19	<--	pyzozord (~pyzozord@user/pyzozord) has left #linux
2021-07-04 12:03:29	NthDegree	the days of Ingo Molnar vs. PaX Team are long behind us lol
2021-07-04 12:04:21	NthDegree	Guest19, ArchLinux and Gentoo offer it
2021-07-04 12:04:38	autopsy	This computer stops booting early on at a pci address list and says MSI quirk detected subordinate MSI disabled    what can i do?
2021-07-04 12:04:52	onelegend	Alpine Linux is security focused
2021-07-04 12:05:00	euouae	Openbsd is excellent for security
2021-07-04 12:05:11	euouae	It’s secure by default philosophy is great
2021-07-04 12:05:12	onelegend	I love that OS
2021-07-04 12:05:17	Guest19	ArchLinux sounds good
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2021-07-04 12:05:30	NthDegree	OpenBSD used to be excellent for security but it's fallen behind a lot
2021-07-04 12:05:38	Guest19	I agree
2021-07-04 12:05:47	Guest19	Does Alpine have kernel-hardening?
2021-07-04 12:05:48	euouae	Fallen behind in features yeah
2021-07-04 12:05:53	NthDegree	in security
2021-07-04 12:05:54	-->	upsala (~zcb@185.213.155.160) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 12:06:03	euouae	Really? Ok that is news to me
2021-07-04 12:06:08	<--	RougeR (~rougex250@user/rouger) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 12:06:24	Guest19	How so exactly? Not patching exploits? Or just having
2021-07-04 12:06:28	StoneNe	archlinux is the best
2021-07-04 12:06:29	Guest19	old encryption standards etc?
2021-07-04 12:06:34	NthDegree	euouae, there was an entire presentation about how other systems (incl. Windows in some cases) beat OpenBSD to the punch with decent proactive security features
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2021-07-04 12:06:38	NthDegree	I'll see if I can find it
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2021-07-04 12:06:59	Guest19	Windows 10 is pretty secure these days, except from the NSA backdoor.
2021-07-04 12:07:20	NthDegree	Guest19, except most system services run as SYSTEM which is more powerful than root on Linux is lol
2021-07-04 12:07:31	felco	Dude... you put "article "linux security" comparison out-of-the-box" on gsearch and then you get suggestions like "how windows security differs from linux?" that the power of money
2021-07-04 12:07:54	Guest19	True
2021-07-04 12:08:05	NthDegree	Here's the presentation IIRC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E9ga-CylWQ
2021-07-04 12:08:08	Guest19	Windwos has great ASLR etc
2021-07-04 12:08:59	autopsy	I tried pci=nomsi but it still stops booting
2021-07-04 12:09:25	Guest19	How can I harden my Lubuntu based distro?
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2021-07-04 12:09:33	euouae	Watching that video
2021-07-04 12:09:40	Guest19	I want to apply GRSecurity, kernel hardening, increase ASLR etc, without breaking anything
2021-07-04 12:09:50	autopsy	Inject it with rubber cement
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2021-07-04 12:10:00	NthDegree	Guest19, "without breaking anything" won't happen
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2021-07-04 12:10:11	NthDegree	Good security always breaks stuff at first
2021-07-04 12:10:18	firepup	applying kernel hardening probably means having to modify your kernel
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2021-07-04 12:10:30	NthDegree	like GRSec will break if you use NVIDIA drivers
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2021-07-04 12:12:55	Guest19	Well, adfing a Firewall didnt break anything
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2021-07-04 12:13:06	Guest19	How can I obfuscate my OS? to prevent exploit targeting? https://nmap.org/misc/defeat-nmap-osdetect.html
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2021-07-04 12:13:54	autopsy	You guys are too scared
2021-07-04 12:14:14	autopsy	You have to break things to learn
2021-07-04 12:14:28	felco	Agreed
2021-07-04 12:14:56	felco	get yourself a breakable computer and don't be afraid anymore
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2021-07-04 12:15:54	autopsy	Basically you drop anything that is not expected and you use conntrack module with iptables and allow established,related
2021-07-04 12:15:58	<--	RougeR (~rougex250@user/rouger) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-04 12:16:27	autopsy	Thats it man
2021-07-04 12:16:39	spyroboy	you're talking to the guy whose name is Guest
2021-07-04 12:16:49	spyroboy	just .. don't forget that
2021-07-04 12:16:53	autopsy	Really?
2021-07-04 12:17:25	autopsy	I didnt notice
2021-07-04 12:17:28	spyroboy	oh nvm you completely ignored that guy lmao
2021-07-04 12:17:40	spyroboy	just noticed the previous conversation
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2021-07-04 12:17:52	djph	heh
2021-07-04 12:18:12	felco	In some sense... everybody is a guest in your own pov, you may know the nickname, but you can't never be sure of whom that is, unless you actually know =]
2021-07-04 12:18:32	autopsy	I was talking to the guy who question and had the os detection nmap article
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2021-07-04 12:20:12	 *	autopsy lights up a smoke
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2021-07-04 12:22:49	euouae	NthDegree so far only praise for open bsd
2021-07-04 12:23:02	NthDegree	euouae, yeah he praises it all the way through but look at the dates
2021-07-04 12:23:12	euouae	Except one xorg setuid exploit
2021-07-04 12:23:16	euouae	What dates?
2021-07-04 12:23:26	onelegend	I run an OpenBSD router
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2021-07-04 12:23:42	NthDegree	on all the slides, OpenBSD is almost always late to implementing the proactive changes compared to other systems
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2021-07-04 12:23:59	Nosrep	how good is bspwm
2021-07-04 12:24:03	NthDegree	like OpenBSD still doesn't have Secure Boot support in 2021
2021-07-04 12:24:05	Nosrep	im thinking of trying it out
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2021-07-04 12:24:31	NthDegree	and their solution for full kernel ASLR is fundamentally incompatible with it too
2021-07-04 12:24:46	felco	I've read an article(i read a lot lol), that argues why BSD dev is superior, the guy used the ifconfig example
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2021-07-04 12:25:21	felco	I'm sorry I can't never find my sources, I too bad at this!
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2021-07-04 12:25:45	NthDegree	felco, I end up in the same camp most of the time, I end up having to re-google for stuff I've read in the past
2021-07-04 12:26:05	euouae	I don’t know what secure boot is or alsr
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2021-07-04 12:26:22	felco	I couldn't find the article about the out-of-the-box security comparison haha
2021-07-04 12:26:42	NthDegree	euouae, so Secure Boot is where the system won't boot if the bootloader has been modified and the bootloader is expected to validate the kernel hasn't been modified etc.
2021-07-04 12:27:29	NthDegree	euouae, Windows, macOS and mainstream Linux distros all do this as standard and it blocks the majority of rootkits
2021-07-04 12:27:58	firepup	its also annoying to me as i cant boot up a usb without turning it off
2021-07-04 12:28:42	felco	you can if the usb is EFI and the os supports secureboot
2021-07-04 12:28:52	onelegend	how would it validate that kernel is modified, if the kernel is on an encrypted partition?
2021-07-04 12:29:03	onelegend	AFAIK, it validates the grub and bootloader
2021-07-04 12:29:11	NthDegree	onelegend, yeah, the bootloader does that part
2021-07-04 12:29:30	onelegend	then secure boot validates the grub right?
2021-07-04 12:29:38	<--	Nefertiti (~unscripte@user/unscripted) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-04 12:29:45	NthDegree	no, it validates a shim bootloader which validates grub
2021-07-04 12:30:14	felco	i think the thing goes like the grub is signed with ms keys that comes in the firmware, if it validates then you have secureboot
2021-07-04 12:30:22	felco	not sure though
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2021-07-04 12:31:14	NthDegree	Secure Boot verifies the MS signed shim executable, the shim then checks grub, then grub checks the kernel, the kernel checks the modules.. etc.
2021-07-04 12:31:29	felco	grub can then securely boot a kernel that also validates?
2021-07-04 12:31:39	paulcarroty	https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/oddesp/inkbox_os_15_custom_opensource_os_for_ereaders_is/
2021-07-04 12:31:43	felco	oh, i see, that is nice
2021-07-04 12:32:33	NthDegree	also, there's the option of adding a Machine Owner Key (MOK)
2021-07-04 12:32:41	Dagmar	You can, of course that if *if you know how* put your own keys into the EFI space, sign your own bootloader, and run that way
2021-07-04 12:32:42	onelegend	secure boot keys are in the TPM no?
2021-07-04 12:32:58	felco	yeah, you have to do that if you have nvidia blobs to load
2021-07-04 12:33:03	euouae	That’s if you’re worried about physical stuff right ?
2021-07-04 12:33:17	NthDegree	no, it won't protect against that
2021-07-04 12:33:29	euouae	So what does it protect?
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2021-07-04 12:33:30	NthDegree	Secure Boot can be switched off if you pass a physical presence check
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2021-07-04 12:33:45	paulcarroty	it protect from booting unknown crap
2021-07-04 12:33:47	NthDegree	it protects against rootkits installed by an attacker without physical access to your machine
2021-07-04 12:33:58	FreeFull	I was able to just turn secure boot in my laptop's bios, not sure if that's harder in newer laptops
2021-07-04 12:34:07	onelegend	NthDegree: ah that makes sense
2021-07-04 12:34:11	euouae	Huh ok I’m yhinking yore already root if you can write there
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2021-07-04 12:34:20	onelegend	because someone with physical access would just replace the TPM keys
2021-07-04 12:34:27	onelegend	TPMs are annoying
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2021-07-04 12:34:41	onelegend	much rather just validate grub myself with a live USB
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2021-07-04 12:35:48	NthDegree	onelegend, you can do it without a TPM too =D
2021-07-04 12:36:21	felco	euouae you must realize there are levels of security, if the kernel gets owned at the boot, being windows, linux, macos, theres pretty much nothing one could do after the system is set... it is compromised from the beginning
2021-07-04 12:36:31	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-04 12:36:41	paulcarroty	yup
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2021-07-04 12:37:13	euouae	So no run time stuff you could do to detect something
2021-07-04 12:37:22	felco	maybe
2021-07-04 12:37:25	felco	maybe not
2021-07-04 12:37:38	felco	how can you run it, if it gets killed?
2021-07-04 12:38:03	euouae	I didn’t know about secure boot
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2021-07-04 12:39:23	NthDegree	also, OpenBSD had an awesome security tool called systrace
2021-07-04 12:39:25	backleet	I got a itch to switch to bash from fish, but fish has a lot of great stuff
2021-07-04 12:39:34	backleet	bash because it's universal
2021-07-04 12:39:39	NthDegree	it suffered from a race condition issue but rather than fix it, they dumped it
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2021-07-04 12:40:05	NthDegree	only to create pledge, which ironically provides the kernelspace hooks systrace would have needed
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2021-07-04 12:40:52	NthDegree	as in one could have adapted systrace to be a tool for creating a complex pledge-style policy
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2021-07-04 12:41:28	euouae	Pledge is nice
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2021-07-04 12:41:36	euouae	I like it a lot and unveil too
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2021-07-04 12:42:44	NthDegree	pledge is nice but it's a subset of seccomp-bpf
2021-07-04 12:43:03	--	jinsun_ is now known as jinsun
2021-07-04 12:43:14	jason1235	pledge is a virus. it will make unstable the system
2021-07-04 12:43:25	jason1235	a good programmer will not add shit into unistd.h
2021-07-04 12:43:38	NthDegree	https://github.com/ataraxialinux/pledgeunveil4linux/blob/master/pledge.c <-- very quick port of pledge to Linux
2021-07-04 12:43:55	NthDegree	it just translates the pledge stuff into seccomp rules
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2021-07-04 12:45:37	euouae	Jason what do you mean ?
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2021-07-04 12:46:57	euouae	Nthdegree interesting that they don’t check the return value of strdup
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2021-07-04 12:47:08	euouae	maybe their idea is just let the program crash
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2021-07-04 12:48:26	NthDegree	euouae, well the list of promises is written wrong, that would probably be desirable
2021-07-04 12:48:52	euouae	Lol they have a memory leak
2021-07-04 12:49:08	NthDegree	I think this was hacked together on the quick to prove a point, I think there's a proper library in the works for this
2021-07-04 12:49:13	Dagmar	euouae: Oh we're expecting people to check the exit values of things now?
2021-07-04 12:49:30	euouae	Lol
2021-07-04 12:49:38	euouae	They don’t free strdup
2021-07-04 12:50:01	NthDegree	hahah world's smallest leak
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2021-07-04 12:50:23	NthDegree	but I thought that returns a pointer anyway?
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2021-07-04 12:50:31	euouae	Really sad tho that’s like being served frozen fries with your lobster
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2021-07-04 12:50:55	NthDegree	also
2021-07-04 12:50:56	NthDegree		if (promises == NULL)
2021-07-04 12:50:56	NthDegree			return 1;
2021-07-04 12:51:30	NthDegree	so they do some basic checks
2021-07-04 12:51:31	euouae	You’re not reading it right
2021-07-04 12:51:59	euouae	“str” is not checked nor freed
2021-07-04 12:52:08	euouae	S/right/wrong
2021-07-04 12:52:28	euouae	Sorry heard to type in phone
2021-07-04 12:52:36	NthDegree	I think you had the right the first time :p
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2021-07-04 12:52:47	euouae	Yeah Hehe
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2021-07-04 12:53:36	euouae	My experience with c code is that most of it had bugs
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2021-07-04 12:54:00	euouae	They may not always be detrimental but I can just glance at things and spot them
2021-07-04 12:54:11	NthDegree	it looks like str is free'd implicitly
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2021-07-04 12:54:27	euouae	How is that happening?
2021-07-04 12:55:12	NthDegree	pledge calls real_pledge which makes some basic syscalls and str is initialised only within real_pledge as a pointer to promises
2021-07-04 12:55:27	NthDegree	once real_pledge returns, the pointer no longer exists
2021-07-04 12:55:37	NthDegree	due to scoping
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2021-07-04 12:55:53	euouae	Yeah the Pinter is 4 bytes
2021-07-04 12:55:55	 *	NthDegree is not a C programmer, however
2021-07-04 12:56:11	euouae	That’s a local variable but it does nothing about the pointed stuff
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2021-07-04 12:56:56	NthDegree	well the original arguments are *promises and *execpromises
2021-07-04 12:57:42	NthDegree	so everything gets cleaned up on return
2021-07-04 12:57:50	euouae	No it’s not
2021-07-04 12:58:00	euouae	It’s only cleaned up when the program exits
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2021-07-04 12:58:11	euouae	Are you sure?
2021-07-04 12:58:24	NthDegree	or when the developer destroys promises and execpromises within their main program if they declared them
2021-07-04 12:58:42	NthDegree	if they just passed through arguments directly, then I'm not sure what the issue would be
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2021-07-04 12:59:32	euouae	Once there a leak I’m not sure how it’s taken care of
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2021-07-04 12:59:49	euouae	I don’t understand what you mean about the promise stuff, it’s a leak in the function
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2021-07-04 13:00:03	NthDegree	when a function returns, the local variables are cleaned up
2021-07-04 13:00:30	euouae	Dude no offense but I’m writing C for 15 years almost
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2021-07-04 13:01:23	onelegend	NthDegree: ooh nice
2021-07-04 13:01:36	euouae	The issue is that strdup uses malloc and so the return value must be freed
2021-07-04 13:01:53	euouae	You can read the posix standard to see that of strdupw
2021-07-04 13:02:04	onelegend	hardened MALLOC
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2021-07-04 13:02:39	euouae	It’s not an issue of whether malloc is hardened or not it just can’t know your Pinter is dangling
2021-07-04 13:02:54	onelegend	ah no, that was a random interjection sry
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2021-07-04 13:03:04	onelegend	i.e. JEMALLOC
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2021-07-04 13:04:55	NthDegree	euouae, yeah that's my bad I'm thinking of strcpy
2021-07-04 13:06:11	NthDegree	where it would be irrelevant because upon returning the memory would automatically be freed up
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2021-07-04 13:07:06	onelegend	pledge syscall is nice
2021-07-04 13:07:23	onelegend	I'm sure y'all like OpenSSH right?
2021-07-04 13:07:34	euouae	That’s true nthdegree and anyway like you said it’s a work in progress no point in criticizing it myself
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2021-07-04 13:08:03	schillingklaus	dropbear is superior ... on boxes with embedded linux and in containers
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2021-07-04 13:08:34	onelegend	if dropbear is "superior", then why do people still use OpenSSH
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2021-07-04 13:08:46	onelegend	how fast is the SFTP in dropbear
2021-07-04 13:08:47	NthDegree	euouae, if you wanna pick on one... go for this one: https://github.com/Muli-M/libpledge-openbsd
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2021-07-04 13:09:03	Dagmar	onelegend: Your first statment was a fallacy
2021-07-04 13:09:07	NthDegree	euouae, I think that's the one folks are working on as a "proper" solution :P
2021-07-04 13:09:16	onelegend	oh
2021-07-04 13:09:16	schillingklaus	because not all unix installs are headless bricks and containers
2021-07-04 13:09:18	onelegend	oops
2021-07-04 13:09:20	 *	NthDegree brb
2021-07-04 13:09:38	onelegend	i'll try dropbear ok
2021-07-04 13:09:42	Dagmar	onelegend: ...and the answer to your question largely depends upon your CPU
2021-07-04 13:09:57	onelegend	ah ok
2021-07-04 13:10:08	onelegend	sometimes I get a sucky SFTP speed
2021-07-04 13:10:12	onelegend	not sure why
2021-07-04 13:10:23	Dagmar	Probably network speeds
2021-07-04 13:10:29	akik	schillingklaus: openssh works just fine inside containers
2021-07-04 13:10:32	onelegend	I'm on a gigabit network
2021-07-04 13:10:37	Dagmar	it's not the sort of thing that experiences random speed-related glitching
2021-07-04 13:10:39	onelegend	*not ISP plan
2021-07-04 13:10:42	euouae	Nthdegree they’re printing  uint64_t using %ld, that’s a bug
2021-07-04 13:10:50	Dagmar	Dude that really doesn't matter
2021-07-04 13:10:53	onelegend	I'll probably use the HPN SSH
2021-07-04 13:11:00	Dagmar	ISP routing changes happen all the time
2021-07-04 13:11:16	onelegend	Dagmar: gigabit as in gigabit lan
2021-07-04 13:11:38	onelegend	I must've screwed something up
2021-07-04 13:11:56	Dagmar	THen you might want to consider setting up something to record performance metrics for the other or both boxes in question
2021-07-04 13:12:03	Guest19	https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/ssh-encryption/#SSH_security
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2021-07-04 13:12:30	Dagmar	Odds are high there's an obvious reason for hte issue waiting to show up if you can see what else is going on at the same time
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2021-07-04 13:13:09	euouae	Nthdegree a lot of C mistakes are not coming up in production because  it just happens that the absurd requirements for the bug to show itself are not met
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2021-07-04 13:14:54	euouae	This one is definitely a bug, they’re treating unsigned integer as signed(signed overflow) and also the size could be different (buffer overflow)
2021-07-04 13:15:08	euouae	But does it manifest itself ? Probably not!
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2021-07-04 13:15:10	Dagmar	onelegend: Understand that openssh is used on hundreds of thousands of server, in production, every day
2021-07-04 13:15:16	<--	jmcantrell (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 13:15:19	Dagmar	s/server/servers/
2021-07-04 13:15:21	onelegend	yup
2021-07-04 13:15:28	Dagmar	Dropbear is not.
2021-07-04 13:15:45	Dagmar	Generally one uses dropbear when one is on a platform where one _can't_ compile openssh
2021-07-04 13:16:09	Dagmar	...particularly little teensy gumstick ARM machines.
2021-07-04 13:17:37	onelegend	yup
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2021-07-04 13:19:39	Guest42_	what does thinpool mean in lvm
2021-07-04 13:19:58	Dagmar	A thin-provisioned pool
2021-07-04 13:20:27	deniska	there're probably more dropbear deployments running than openssh I'd think
2021-07-04 13:20:34	Dagmar	You should really learn how to use Google
2021-07-04 13:20:37	deniska	all these routers :)
2021-07-04 13:20:40	Dagmar	deniska: There you'd be wrong
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2021-07-04 13:21:07	onelegend	OpenSSH is da best
2021-07-04 13:21:20	Dagmar	There are lot of routers, yes, but do people generally have more routers than server instances?
2021-07-04 13:21:23	Dagmar	Noooo...
2021-07-04 13:21:25	Dagmar	hehe
2021-07-04 13:21:39	deniska	Dagmar: I know plenty people who have a router at home, but no server
2021-07-04 13:21:51	Dagmar	That's still not going to be enough
2021-07-04 13:21:59	<--	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 13:22:04	Dagmar	Also most of the devices I know about are using openssh anyway
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2021-07-04 13:22:43	schillingklaus	as long as they don't use systemd...
2021-07-04 13:22:44	Dagmar	Also there's that Windows 10 now has an optional OpenSSH client and server (and not through WSL either).
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2021-07-04 13:23:10	onelegend	wats wrong with poetteringd?
2021-07-04 13:23:30	deniska	Just checked a couple of home grade routers, they run dropbear :)
2021-07-04 13:23:31	schillingklaus	systemd is ununixish
2021-07-04 13:24:23	onelegend	deniska: sure they do, but desktops and servers typically run OpenSSH
2021-07-04 13:24:28	Dagmar	Feel free to look at Shodan to find out how wrong you are
2021-07-04 13:24:38	Dagmar	It's not even close.
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2021-07-04 13:24:40	onelegend	I dropped my bear
2021-07-04 13:24:56	euouae	Nthdegree by the way I didn’t mean to be rude earlier I apologize
2021-07-04 13:25:01	onelegend	SSH is so underrated
2021-07-04 13:25:12	onelegend	I use the SSH protocol every day
2021-07-04 13:25:18	deniska	onelegend: I know. But I doubt there're more servers than SOHO class routers
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2021-07-04 13:26:03	P4ddyF	what if the routers are not just routers but also servers?
2021-07-04 13:26:09	Dagmar	Rinkydink routers are the main reason dropbear is visible on a pie chart
2021-07-04 13:26:18	<--	bobdobbs` (~user@150.107.174.181) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 13:26:21	Dagmar	For the most part, all roads lead to openssh
2021-07-04 13:26:31	Dagmar	...for very good reason.
2021-07-04 13:26:33	onelegend	deniska: so you're saying that there are more routers than desktops, laptops, and servers combined?
2021-07-04 13:26:46	firepup	whats the difference between gnutls and openssl?.....
2021-07-04 13:26:54	deniska	onelegend: well, you don't run an ssh server on a normal desktop or a laptop :D
2021-07-04 13:26:59	Dagmar	firepup: THey're managed by two different groups of people
2021-07-04 13:27:04	firepup	ok
2021-07-04 13:27:13	deniska	I mean, I do, but I'm a weirdo
2021-07-04 13:27:19	onelegend	deniska: but you'd run OpenSSH client:D
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2021-07-04 13:27:50	onelegend	after all you we're talking about OpenSSH in general right ? ;)
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2021-07-04 13:28:04	deniska	I was talking servers…
2021-07-04 13:28:08	Dagmar	firepup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TLS_implementations
2021-07-04 13:28:31	deniska	I guess most routers don't expose ssh on an internet available port anyway by default
2021-07-04 13:29:02	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-04 13:29:21	onelegend	firepup: GnuTLS is an implemetation of Transport Layer Security, OpenSSH is an implementation of Secure Shell Version 2
2021-07-04 13:29:38	deniska	as far as clients go, I wonder what's more popular, openssh-client or putty :)
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2021-07-04 13:30:18	P4ddyF	!vote
2021-07-04 13:30:29	akik	vote?
2021-07-04 13:30:31	onelegend	deniska: openssh comes preinstalled on most operating systems lol:)
2021-07-04 13:30:45	rascul	putty is probably more popular on windows
2021-07-04 13:30:45	deniska	onelegend: on windows it's a relatively recent affair
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2021-07-04 13:31:01	onelegend	aaand???
2021-07-04 13:31:03	Dagmar	We're migrating people away from PuTTY where we can
2021-07-04 13:31:30	deniska	people will still use putty because sheer inertia, too lazy to convert keys, or just not knowing about it, or running older windows versions
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2021-07-04 13:31:38	onelegend	OpenSSH is more deployed in the end :)
2021-07-04 13:31:43	rascul	can use putty on linux if you really want to though
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2021-07-04 13:32:13	Dagmar	Yep.
2021-07-04 13:32:18	<--	plugd (~plugd@xcpe-194-230-16-121.cgn.res.adslplus.ch) has quit (Quit: ciao)
2021-07-04 13:32:38	Dagmar	If you've angered the gods and you're cursed to need ANSI terminals at work, then PuTTY is the thing you'll be using.
2021-07-04 13:32:48	Dagmar	...particularly SCO.
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2021-07-04 13:34:33	PaulFertser	Phoenix UEFI implementation expects SCO key codes if you want to be able to press F2 to enter the menu. In year 2021.
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2021-07-04 13:37:05	firepup	whats sco?
2021-07-04 13:37:15	Dagmar	Nastyness
2021-07-04 13:37:44	firepup	that doesn't make sense with the abbreviation lol
2021-07-04 13:37:55	Dagmar	It's SCO Unix.
2021-07-04 13:38:13	Dagmar	...which is as filthy and repulsive a UNIX as you're ever likely to encounter.
2021-07-04 13:38:13	rascul	sco reaching from the grave  https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2021/04/01/software-company-sues-ibm-red-hat.html
2021-07-04 13:38:18	NthDegree	euouae, I didn't take it as rudeness lol
2021-07-04 13:38:28	Dagmar	SCO is garbage.
2021-07-04 13:38:58	rascul	xinuous has the old sco ip and is suing ibm and red hat
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2021-07-04 13:39:16	NthDegree	euouae, you should hear me at work, I'm basically Marmite (some customers really love me, many only tolerate me because their stuff gets fixed)
2021-07-04 13:39:23	rascul	ip as in intellectual property
2021-07-04 13:39:26	Dagmar	Of course.  Otherwise they might as well all get side jobs at McDonalds because it'll make more money than licencing SCO.
2021-07-04 13:39:32	onelegend	ha fuck xinous
2021-07-04 13:40:06	Dagmar	It still can't represent system load.
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2021-07-04 13:40:19	Dagmar	It just gives a percentage of CPU time utilized and that's it.
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2021-07-04 13:40:53	NthDegree	When will they sue Apple I wonder
2021-07-04 13:41:11	onelegend	open source projects should patent some of their code
2021-07-04 13:41:14	Dagmar	It's basically crappier and more primitive than literally _any_ distribution released in 2001
2021-07-04 13:41:19	onelegend	just as a fuck you to companies like xinous
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2021-07-04 13:42:14	onelegend	someone actually tried to patent troll gnome and they failed miserably
2021-07-04 13:42:27	firepup	why? the open source license prohibited that?
2021-07-04 13:42:45	onelegend	firepup: what?
2021-07-04 13:42:45	NthDegree	I believe prior art prevents it
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2021-07-04 13:42:56	onelegend	firepup: what do you mean
2021-07-04 13:43:10	NthDegree	if this is the "hyperlink using an image" troll, then prior art is what won the day
2021-07-04 13:43:13	<--	stetner (~stetner@user/stetner) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 13:43:41	Dagmar	It was an "images, but on a computer" patent IIRC
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2021-07-04 13:44:35	Dagmar	...where all ", but on a computer" patents are invalid, it just takes a round of going through the courts to get them formally revoked.
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2021-07-04 13:45:07	euouae	Nowadays they just buy out foss
2021-07-04 13:45:13	euouae	Like freenode and audacity
2021-07-04 13:45:32	firepup	audacity isn't foss anymore?
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2021-07-04 13:45:42	onelegend	firepup: audacity is FOSS
2021-07-04 13:46:02	backleet	anyone use different frontend for reddit, something like teddit? with login feature?
2021-07-04 13:46:04	euouae	They made the devs sign a cla so they control the license now and it communicates telemetry to yandex .ru
2021-07-04 13:46:17	mlu	one of the things i've learned the hard way: legality isn't always enforced
2021-07-04 13:46:35	firepup	ok im turning off the telemetry now for audacity
2021-07-04 13:46:52	-->	Tsynk (~VoinTsynk@64-130-186-155.pool.dsl.scrtc.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 13:47:06	euouae	I’d say switch to the fork
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2021-07-04 13:51:58	rascul	or just disable the stuff in the build
2021-07-04 13:52:34	rascul	from what i read you have to explicitly enable the telemetry stuff at build time
2021-07-04 13:52:48	rascul	so just not enabling it seems like it might be fine
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2021-07-04 13:53:38	digital_mystik	hello.. any recommendations for a good expense/budget tracker to learn? Is skrooge good? I've been meaning to start budgeting/tracking but never got around to doing so
2021-07-04 13:55:01	-->	Guest42 (~textual@192.146.154.3) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 13:57:31	themachine	I've not tried it but I've been meaning to set it up at some point: https://www.firefly-iii.org/
2021-07-04 13:57:57	autopsy	Anybody have a clue why this board stops booting at Msi quark detected subordinate msi disabled i tried pci=off but that didnt help
2021-07-04 14:00:48	digital_mystik	themachine that looks cool.. another reason I should set up a NAS haha
2021-07-04 14:00:56	onelegend	NAS
2021-07-04 14:01:00	nyuszika7h	I have a box running enigma2 with about 220MB RAM, and oom-killer keeps triggering even after adding 1GB swap, any idea why that is?
2021-07-04 14:01:01	onelegend	NAS is good
2021-07-04 14:01:54	<--	kurahaupo (~kurahaupo@124-171-138-127.tpgi.com.au) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-04 14:02:14	autopsy	i have a nasa spaceship running some iron core and the main g2 switch came off any way to fix it?
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2021-07-04 14:02:58	nyuszika7h	lol
2021-07-04 14:03:00	autopsy	Nah really?
2021-07-04 14:03:18	nyuszika7h	https://termbin.com/d4q1k
2021-07-04 14:03:29	firepup	nyuszika7h maybe /tmp isn't big enough?
2021-07-04 14:03:49	[[R]]	nyuszika7h: because you dont have enough memory
2021-07-04 14:04:10	nyuszika7h	yeah but
2021-07-04 14:04:10	nyuszika7h	Jul  4 20:01:16 hd530c user.warn kernel: [821465.740000] Free swap  = 1048520kB
2021-07-04 14:04:11	nyuszika7h	Jul  4 20:01:16 hd530c user.warn kernel: [821465.740000] Total swap = 1048572kB
2021-07-04 14:04:13	nyuszika7h	why is it not using all that swap
2021-07-04 14:04:18	firepup	[[R]] it can be because /tmp can't fit it, such as when compiling gcc
2021-07-04 14:04:25	[[R]]	firepup: what?
2021-07-04 14:04:27	<--	darutoko (~darutoko@37.21.217.231) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-04 14:04:38	nyuszika7h	root@hd530c:~# df -h /tmp
2021-07-04 14:04:38	nyuszika7h	Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
2021-07-04 14:04:39	nyuszika7h	tmpfs                   109.7M    572.0K    109.2M   1% /var/volatile
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2021-07-04 14:05:19	firepup	try mount -o remount,size=6G /tmp and see whether oom still triggers.
2021-07-04 14:05:39	nyuszika7h	6GB tmpfs when I have 220MB RAM and 1GB swap?
2021-07-04 14:05:48	nyuszika7h	nothing seems to be writing to /tmp except two socket files
2021-07-04 14:06:01	akik	nyuszika7h: try if disabling it works: sysctl -w vm.oom-kill = 0
2021-07-04 14:06:08	[[R]]	nyuszika7h: swap isn't a magical replacement for ram
2021-07-04 14:06:26	autopsy	Echo 85 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness
2021-07-04 14:06:44	nyuszika7h	it's on 60 rn but I can try
2021-07-04 14:06:59	autopsy	Try 98
2021-07-04 14:07:19	-->	Camilo (~hugh@185.169.255.249) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:07:20	Dagmar	...or leaving it alone and looking at the real problem.
2021-07-04 14:07:38	akik	the real problem is 220 megs of ram
2021-07-04 14:07:42	autopsy	let him swamp his swap
2021-07-04 14:07:46	-->	alucardromero (~alucardro@107-131-221-213.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:08:04	autopsy	Todays kids deserve 1 gb
2021-07-04 14:08:24	firepup	im running at 243 mib
2021-07-04 14:08:25	autopsy	Today!!!
2021-07-04 14:08:40	<--	ralinux (~saje@37.156.190.205) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-07-04 14:09:15	nyuszika7h	this is a set top box
2021-07-04 14:09:15	autopsy	I got 16 bazillion megerhertz runnin ryzen disk io pipe all day
2021-07-04 14:09:19	themachine	relying on swap that's 5x the size of your ram...
2021-07-04 14:09:32	autopsy	Relying?
2021-07-04 14:09:50	autopsy	He built a house on top of it
2021-07-04 14:10:03	dragonmaster	this is likely a htpc running on some tiny box
2021-07-04 14:10:04	themachine	lol
2021-07-04 14:10:42	KillerWasp	hello
2021-07-04 14:11:06	mlu	it smol
2021-07-04 14:11:10	 *	autopsy sprays flea collar equipment
2021-07-04 14:11:13	KillerWasp	by any chance does someone speak Spanish?
2021-07-04 14:11:21	-->	yupeak (~yupeak@d75-156-54-184.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:11:30	autopsy	I speak some spanish
2021-07-04 14:11:43	akik	linux es linux
2021-07-04 14:11:44	<--	hrtk (~hritik@223.233.68.160) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 14:11:53	<--	schillingklaus (~schilling@ip2504e07b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has quit (Quit: schillingklaus)
2021-07-04 14:11:55	akik	(i don't)
2021-07-04 14:12:08	<--	uc50ic4more (~uc50ic4mo@dyn216-8-151-213.ADSL.mnsi.net) has quit (Quit: uc50ic4more)
2021-07-04 14:12:09	KillerWasp	autopsy# you can join to #linux-es :)
2021-07-04 14:12:10	dragonmaster	linux-es is nearly vacant
2021-07-04 14:12:50	greenbagels	anyone have any resources on reading about how mdadm's check operation works?
2021-07-04 14:13:01	greenbagels	im trying to determine whether my array's check speed is too slow or not
2021-07-04 14:14:21	[[R]]	greenbagels: the code
2021-07-04 14:14:31	 *	greenbagels cries
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2021-07-04 14:15:06	firepup	there might be the docs
2021-07-04 14:15:08	firepup	if there is even docs
2021-07-04 14:15:59	randomuser	Hey, is is it possible to ssh from guest to host in virt-manager (libvirt/QEMU)?
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2021-07-04 14:16:41	[[R]]	randomuser: if the networks re connected and you have an ssh daemon, of course
2021-07-04 14:17:03	randomuser	How can I connect them?
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2021-07-04 14:17:36	rascul	virt-manager probably has that all setup for you already
2021-07-04 14:17:53	<--	onelegend (onelegend@wireguard/tunneler/onelegend) has left #linux (WeeChat 3.2)
2021-07-04 14:18:11	autopsy	There is probably a jumper
2021-07-04 14:18:22	autopsy	That i missed
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2021-07-04 14:18:44	 *	autopsy jumps out the window
2021-07-04 14:19:03	Wafficus	can anyone please help me figure out how to get sound working in Retroarch via the Dosbox Pure core in Devuan? My ALSA sounds works just fine in other applications
2021-07-04 14:19:53	akik	randomuser: yes it works
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2021-07-04 14:21:10	akik	randomuser: i'm using the user networking
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2021-07-04 14:22:59	JeffATL	 i get using "for b in {A..Z}" to iterate over capital letters but what if i want to iterate over A to Z followed by 0 through 9?
2021-07-04 14:23:04	JeffATL	in bash
2021-07-04 14:23:26	[[R]]	JeffATL: {A..Z} {0..9}
2021-07-04 14:23:27	[[R]]	try that
2021-07-04 14:23:49	randomuser	Sorry! The other way around. Host -> guest. Virtualbox has port forwarding, but is it possible in virt-manager?
2021-07-04 14:24:10	akik	randomuser: i did that with the port forwarding option
2021-07-04 14:24:13	JeffATL	[[R]]: ok, that works, thank you. i was trying it with no space in between
2021-07-04 14:24:28	[[R]]	JeffATL: just pust an echo infront of what i just said, and you'll understand why you need the space
2021-07-04 14:24:44	digital_mystik	hasn't virt-manager been deprecated? I don't really use VMs much anymore but I remember development went in favor of cockpit instead right?
2021-07-04 14:24:54	akik	randomuser: -device virtio-net,netdev=vmnic -netdev user,id=vmnic,hostfwd=tcp::5222-:22
2021-07-04 14:25:04	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:25:24	akik	randomuser: sorry don't know about virt-manager
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2021-07-04 14:25:58	randomuser	I'm too dumb for the terminal version. Is there some shiny button for it in virt-manager?
2021-07-04 14:26:23	akik	randomuser: try searching for that hostfwd option
2021-07-04 14:26:26	[[R]]	saying "im too dumb" is just code for "im too lazy to learn"
2021-07-04 14:26:40	akik	that's what creates the port forward from the host to the vm
2021-07-04 14:27:11	randomuser	I'm too lazy to learn the terminal version. Is there some shiny button for it in virt-manager?
2021-07-04 14:27:26	-->	macc24 (~macc24@cadmium/maintainer/macc24) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:27:30	akik	haha
2021-07-04 14:27:43	macc24	is anyone working on a gadget driver for generic usb display?
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2021-07-04 14:28:10	akik	randomuser: https://www.google.com/search?q=virt-manager+hostfwd
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2021-07-04 14:29:35	randomuser	There are no shiny buttons! Just XML!
2021-07-04 14:29:42	randomuser	I'm disappointed.
2021-07-04 14:29:45	dragonmaster	randomuser: what do you see when you look at the NIC details in virt-manager?   Is there a NAT option for "Network source"?
2021-07-04 14:30:20	randomuser	Yes.
2021-07-04 14:30:23	dragonmaster	use that
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2021-07-04 14:31:26	dragonmaster	I'm assuming there's a bridge set up on the host already
2021-07-04 14:31:29	bewees	when compiling from source and you forgot an option to configure do you have to recompile everything newly or will it reuse precompiled C objects?
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2021-07-04 14:31:58	Topco	awoo
2021-07-04 14:32:04	akk	bewees: You need to recompile anything that might use that option.
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2021-07-04 14:32:36	bewees	akk: does `make` figure itself out what to recompile or do I have to fiddle in the build scripts?
2021-07-04 14:32:55	akk	bewees: Depends on the project, but in general, unfortunately you can't count on make to figure it out.
2021-07-04 14:33:31	firepup	may as well run make clean then recompile to be safe
2021-07-04 14:33:40	akk	(It's probably possible to write smarter makefiles, but few projects have a makefile guru, it's an ancient art and not very interesting to most people)
2021-07-04 14:33:57	<--	LuksNuke (~LuksNuke@94.242.245.63) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-04 14:34:14	bewees	I see, in my particular example i'm compiling qemu-system-x86, so probably should just recompile from new instead of fiddling and possibly breaking something in the building environment
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2021-07-04 14:34:44	randomuser	dragonmaster: I clicked it.
2021-07-04 14:34:52	akk	Plus, so many projects now are moving to newfangled non-make systems that nobody knows, so even if meson can be smart about that, probably whoever wrote the meson build files doesn't know how to make them smart.
2021-07-04 14:35:21	dragonmaster	randomuser: has an IP address been assigned to the VM?
2021-07-04 14:35:37	randomuser	Yes.
2021-07-04 14:35:57	randomuser	Virtual network 'default' : NAT
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2021-07-04 14:36:23	dragonmaster	does the host have an interface on the same network?
2021-07-04 14:36:28	firepup	akk thats what i hate, people making me have to use a variety of tools when one toolchain could do the job..
2021-07-04 14:36:40	<--	aaa (~aaa__@2a02:27b0:5300:d9d0:477:6a60:2be9:4d29) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-04 14:36:46	bewees	akk: having a AMD Ryzen 5 3600 and it's compiling since about 20 minutes and reached about 6700 of 9100 compiled c objects, didn't expect it to take that long. Guess when using gentoo you need something like ryzen 7 or maybe threadripper
2021-07-04 14:36:52	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 14:37:08	bewees	ryzen 9*
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2021-07-04 14:37:35	randomuser	dragonmaster: What is an interface (in this context)?
2021-07-04 14:37:51	dragonmaster	dragonmaster: A network interface.    'ip a' on will list them
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2021-07-04 14:38:18	dragonmaster	I was going to say 'on the host' but that applies to the VMs, too
2021-07-04 14:38:27	dragonmaster	wow.  talking to myself
2021-07-04 14:38:50	Topco	not really
2021-07-04 14:38:54	akk	bewees: Or just start every update before bedtime and leave it running ...
2021-07-04 14:39:10	dragonmaster	randomuser: alternatively you could simply try to ping the IP address of the VM from the host
2021-07-04 14:40:10	randomuser	Oh, that is way better. Thanks!
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2021-07-04 14:40:46	dragonmaster	there are a number of reasons why a VM would not reply to pings, though, so looking at the NICs is probably better
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2021-07-04 14:41:08	bewees	akk: that's doable, with gentoo -stable, provided things don't break too much requiring you to recompile. But I think if ./configure is giving out no errors, make most likely will not run into errors
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2021-07-04 14:41:47	randomuser	And by the way, I have no idea how internet works, what are network interfaces, network bridges etc.
2021-07-04 14:42:01	akik	it's a series of tubes
2021-07-04 14:42:18	bewees	akk: i was thinking to switch to Gentoo from Ubuntu, because it allows for easier customization
2021-07-04 14:42:33	Topco	i use puppy linux
2021-07-04 14:42:40	Topco	woof woof
2021-07-04 14:42:45	bewees	Would have to run my own mirror and building box
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2021-07-04 14:43:50	randomuser	Why don't we just simply transfer data over USBs? Or carier pigeons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers)? That would be way easier.
2021-07-04 14:44:03	akk	bewees: Unfortunately that's another thing you can't count on, that configure running with no errors implies there will be no build-time errors.
2021-07-04 14:44:36	<--	Jinx (~Jinx@user/jinx) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 14:44:51	akk	bewees: Again, that's a matter of how comfortable the devs are with the build tools (autotools in this case, which not that many people are good at).
2021-07-04 14:45:24	akk	It's hard to write good autotools rules that really thoroughly test for likely build problems.
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2021-07-04 14:46:08	bewees	akk: best to have a decent CPU for a beginners building system, as you tend to make more mistakes and repeat procedures I guess
2021-07-04 14:46:27	-->	harold (~harold@lfbn-lyo-1-490-81.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 14:46:32	bewees	from there I can distribute the packages to other boxes and spare compilation time
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2021-07-04 14:52:58	TheWild	hello
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2021-07-04 14:53:59	TheWild	folks, that's cool that I can "download more ram" by creating large empty file on my HDD, mkswap then swapon
2021-07-04 14:53:59	TheWild	My question is: why is swapoff so damn slow?
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2021-07-04 14:54:26	greenbagels	TheWild: presumably your OS has to read from the swap file and move it back to memory
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2021-07-04 14:54:36	[[R]]	TheWild: because it has to deal with all the stuff in the swap file
2021-07-04 14:54:52	TheWild	greenbagels: sure thing, but this disk approaches 60-80 MB/s, while swapoff barely goes up to 2 MB/s.
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2021-07-04 14:56:49	talin	hello. if i want to have dns for machines in my home network, what is the recommended approach for this? i mean my client machines currenly ask my ISPs DNS servers... i still need recursion from ISP DNS, so how would i add my own machines? for linux machines i could use /etc/hosts, but i have windows and phones etc
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2021-07-04 14:57:32	[[R]]	talin: get a router that isn't garbage and have ti cache local computeres in its internal dns
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2021-07-04 14:58:17	hassoon	TheWild: try your trick of increasing your ram with an nvme SSD disk, since it's the fastest kind of storage mediums
2021-07-04 14:58:39	TheWild	hassoon: that's not the satisfying answer
2021-07-04 14:58:57	TheWild	come on, swapoff could read that whole swap in one almost continuous read
2021-07-04 14:59:52	TheWild	btw, I have the SSD that was sitting in this laptop previously
2021-07-04 14:59:52	TheWild	but now it's not reliable even for a swap
2021-07-04 14:59:58	greenbagels	TheWild: but it might not be able to fit it into ram immediately in one go, idk
2021-07-04 15:00:01	rascul	it's not really increasing you're ram
2021-07-04 15:00:24	firepup	swapoff tends to want to move pages itno ram
2021-07-04 15:00:25	firepup	into*
2021-07-04 15:00:27	[[R]]	rascul: i'll increase your ram...
2021-07-04 15:00:27	TheWild	rascul: it's "at least Firefox won't hung up the whole system"
2021-07-04 15:00:28	hassoon	TheWild: get more ram , simply that
2021-07-04 15:00:44	talin	[[R]]: how would you share that cache with the clients? bind?
2021-07-04 15:00:46	hassoon	TheWild: or buy a machine
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2021-07-04 15:01:06	[[R]]	talin: you set your dns to your routers dns server...
2021-07-04 15:01:23	[[R]]	talin: something a non garbage router would do by default
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2021-07-04 15:03:32	bewees	hm, my qemu-system-x86 build is 7.5 gb big, is that normal?
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2021-07-04 15:04:06	[[R]]	bewees: building stuff can take up a lot of space
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2021-07-04 15:04:55	bewees	[[R]]: if I do make install will it actually install 7.5gb or are those basically just redundant files that were needed for the build process
2021-07-04 15:05:18	[[R]]	bewees: just look at how big it is when you install it with your dist like normal
2021-07-04 15:05:18	firepup	make install != copy everything
2021-07-04 15:05:21	[[R]]	it'll be roughly the same size
2021-07-04 15:05:32	bewees	gotcha
2021-07-04 15:07:01	bewees	i will just move the whole build directory to /usr/local/bin, as I want to avoid installing, because I want to avoid overwriting possibly other qemu files of my distro
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2021-07-04 15:07:15	[[R]]	ROFL
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2021-07-04 15:08:12	bewees	it should be fast as it's not a cross filesystem
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2021-07-04 15:10:16	firepup	you could have just --prefix-/usr/local
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2021-07-04 15:10:25	firepup	to not accidentally overwrite stuff
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2021-07-04 15:12:50	bewees	didn't know that, it's actually by default /usr/local according to QEMU's documentation, thanks!
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2021-07-04 15:12:56	bewees	going to do that instead
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2021-07-04 15:14:21	greenbagels	omg these buffered reads are so damn slow
2021-07-04 15:14:25	greenbagels	aaaaaaaa
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2021-07-04 15:15:58	greenbagels	Timing buffered disk reads: 148 MB in 92.55 seconds =   1.60 MB/sec
2021-07-04 15:16:01	greenbagels	:/
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2021-07-04 15:16:46	bewees	oh i should have used make -j6 as this cpu supports 6 threads
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2021-07-04 15:23:06	greenbagels	bewees: make -j$(nproc)
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2021-07-04 15:24:49	bewees	greenbagels: thanks! That's actually 12 then
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2021-07-04 15:25:10	firepup	i hope you dont run out of ram then
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2021-07-04 15:25:41	bewees	mhm
2021-07-04 15:27:09	[[R]]	if your ram is running, you better go catch it
2021-07-04 15:27:36	akik	you're killing me
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2021-07-04 15:30:17	autopsy	I ran out of Iran....
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2021-07-04 15:30:30	autopsy	Straight into Iraq
2021-07-04 15:30:44	akik	outta compton
2021-07-04 15:30:52	autopsy	Humula humula humula ...
2021-07-04 15:30:58	autopsy	Boom!
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2021-07-04 15:32:04	autopsy	This shit is hilarious you guys spark the dumb in me
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2021-07-04 15:32:56	lacroix	autopsy ?
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2021-07-04 15:33:45	autopsy	So whats with this board stops booting at msi quark detected msi subordinate disabled i tried pci=nomsi but...
2021-07-04 15:34:28	autopsy	I cant figure it out
2021-07-04 15:35:23	firepup	did you look it up
2021-07-04 15:36:44	lacroix	autopsy, https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html
2021-07-04 15:36:48	autopsy	Msi is message signalled interrupt
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2021-07-04 15:37:08	lacroix	look at irq, pci, bios, acpi.
2021-07-04 15:37:20	autopsy	Ok
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2021-07-04 15:37:54	greenbagels	bewees: sure thing; just dont hang your system, yeah
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2021-07-04 15:39:17	lacroix	autopsy, read https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/PCI/msi-howto.html
2021-07-04 15:39:34	lacroix	do not tell me what it is. read what I've just given you please.
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2021-07-04 15:41:05	lacroix	autopsy, You need to figure where exactly it hangs. Then you need to add new prints to see how far it comes etc.
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2021-07-04 15:42:03	TheWild	Swap:
2021-07-04 15:42:03	TheWild	it was 4.7 GB when I was talking with you
2021-07-04 15:42:03	TheWild	now it's 2.9 GB
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2021-07-04 15:46:17	firepup	whats the flag to extract bz2 via tar?
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2021-07-04 15:46:53	firepup	nvm
2021-07-04 15:47:04	tomreyn	yes, web searches are faster
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2021-07-04 15:47:21	tomreyn	for trivial questions such as these
2021-07-04 15:47:26	<--	galex-713 (~quassel@37.169.50.179) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 15:47:31	tomreyn	even reading man pages can be faster
2021-07-04 15:47:39	DLange	even better, auto-detection built into tar
2021-07-04 15:47:46	[[R]]	tomreyn: the term 'man page' is offensive
2021-07-04 15:47:51	firepup	it was -xf apparently
2021-07-04 15:47:52	 *	[[R]] detects DLange 
2021-07-04 15:47:56	firepup	not so obvious :/
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2021-07-04 15:48:05	DLange	it will just do the right thing for -xf something.tar.bz2
2021-07-04 15:48:18	 *	tomreyn will laugh later, need to enter basement yet
2021-07-04 15:48:22	firepup	and my distro has no concept of manpages, and 'man' just opens up the browser which i dont really wish to do on 243 mib
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2021-07-04 15:49:08	DLange	no man but tar, that distro keeps the ... cruft :)
2021-07-04 15:49:50	firepup	its meant to be lightweight. so i guess its fair enough to make the documentation online
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2021-07-04 15:50:30	Topco	what distro ?
2021-07-04 15:50:50	firepup	puppy linux topco, as you use too
2021-07-04 15:50:58	Topco	heheheee
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2021-07-04 16:24:15	jim	DLange, and all this time I thought you were undetectable...
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2021-07-04 16:24:55	spine-o-saurus	is the fortune mod that thing that throws random text on the console when you type illegal commands
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2021-07-04 16:26:27	[[R]]	no, thats command-not-found
2021-07-04 16:27:07	spine-o-saurus	how do i redirect to fortune then?
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2021-07-04 16:28:43	[[R]]	huh?
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2021-07-04 16:30:00	spine-o-saurus	redirect STDERR to STDOUT, but with fortune mod
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2021-07-04 16:34:00	felco	spine-o-saurus https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22447315/how-can-i-replace-bash-command-command-not-found-message
2021-07-04 16:34:37	felco	that is amazing, i want a rgb version that flicks: https://github.com/andresgongora/synth-shell
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2021-07-04 16:34:52	wolf912	midi on envy1712 does not work, need help
2021-07-04 16:36:00	FioridaMan	wolf912: what have you tried so far
2021-07-04 16:36:03	FioridaMan	?
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2021-07-04 16:36:47	wolf912	i started daw, it can see midi input but i press keys on midikeyboard and nothing happens
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2021-07-04 16:37:24	FioridaMan	wolfdale: any of the midi keys at all"
2021-07-04 16:37:36	FioridaMan	?
2021-07-04 16:37:46	wolf912	if i use virtual midikeyboard of the daw it produces midi events so daw is setup correctly for midi
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2021-07-04 16:48:06	velix	wolf912: maybe this helps: https://alsa.opensrc.org/Ice1712
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2021-07-04 16:48:20	velix	it's not ency1712, it's ICE1712 and Envy24
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2021-07-04 16:48:23	wolf912	will check
2021-07-04 16:48:36	velix	I had this on my RME Hammerfall 18 years ago
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2021-07-04 16:48:42	wolf912	it's delta 1010lt
2021-07-04 16:48:50	wolf912	m-audio
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2021-07-04 16:48:53	velix	yeeahh
2021-07-04 16:48:56	velix	had it, too
2021-07-04 16:49:01	velix	4 of them, PCI
2021-07-04 16:49:09	wolf912	so can you help me with midi?
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2021-07-04 16:49:18	wolf912	why does it not work?
2021-07-04 16:49:19	velix	wolf912: Sorry, I had a dedicated MIDI card :(
2021-07-04 16:49:28	velix	wolf912: And I used it on Windows
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2021-07-04 16:50:33	velix	I really remember the good old times with PCI timing problems ;)
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2021-07-04 16:54:09	akik	wolf912: for that sound card, the initial setup requires you turn on the audio volumes with mudita24
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2021-07-04 16:54:39	wolf912	where can i get that mudita24?
2021-07-04 16:54:50	akik	wolf912: the earlier version was called envy24control or something
2021-07-04 16:54:58	akik	wolf912: your package manager
2021-07-04 16:55:03	wolf912	yes i started envy24control
2021-07-04 16:55:45	akik	wolf912: it's the dac 0 and dac 1 levels in it
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2021-07-04 16:56:26	akik	wolf912: although i have audiophile 2496 the program seems to be the same
2021-07-04 16:56:51	velix	akik: Yeah, it's all the same chip.
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2021-07-04 16:57:12	velix	akik: Just the PCB layout and hardware stuff differs
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2021-07-04 16:57:59	velix	Envy24 really was nice, since you could mix in the controller without latency.
2021-07-04 16:58:15	wolf912	i put up faders but it does not affect midi
2021-07-04 16:58:54	akik	wolf912: do you use jack?
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2021-07-04 16:59:17	wolf912	i have second hdsp card and m-audio beats it. I can select buffer 32 with m-audio and nothing less than 64 with rme
2021-07-04 16:59:33	wolf912	no i use alsa
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2021-07-04 17:00:14	akik	damn i don't know how it's configured with alsa
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2021-07-04 17:00:26	akik	i use cadence & catia with jack
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2021-07-04 17:02:22	wolf912	try reaper, jack created latency for me
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2021-07-04 17:03:14	akik	i'm fine with ardour
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2021-07-04 17:07:02	autopsy	Has anyone found a good use for gnome boxes?
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2021-07-04 17:10:02	ThinkT510	I don't see much of an advantage over using virtualbox
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2021-07-04 17:16:31	Dagmar	It's not controlled by Oracle.
2021-07-04 17:16:31	kfrench	Canyou use them to put gnomes in?
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2021-07-04 17:16:47	akik	put gnome into a box, return to creator
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2021-07-04 17:17:54	Sauvin	Last time I tried to use kvm/qemu, it made Windows XP even uglier. VBox did it right. Been a few years, maybe that's been fixed, but for most other situations, thinking I'd rather use kvm.
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2021-07-04 17:20:07	twainwek	good morning all
2021-07-04 17:20:09	Dagmar	Oh wait, I know...
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2021-07-04 17:20:12	twainwek	happy freedom day
2021-07-04 17:20:26	Dagmar	Using gnome boxes is better than trying to stir up drama on chat networks.
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2021-07-04 17:22:10	gartt	Nonsense!
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2021-07-04 17:23:42	swl	I'm using a ThinkPad T14 Gen1 intel with nixos, and I'm trying to configure my brightness keys (Fn+F5/F6). On Fedora it picked up those keys, but using evtest doesn't give any output when I press it.
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2021-07-04 17:24:08	swl	I think it might be my kernel, Nix has 5.10 but fedora had 5.12, does anyone else have this problem?
2021-07-04 17:24:30	twainwek	what desktop environment are you using
2021-07-04 17:24:37	twainwek	they can overwrite your keys
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2021-07-04 17:24:56	 *	kfrench 's llama steals Dagmar's hat.
2021-07-04 17:25:26	swl	I'm using Sway
2021-07-04 17:25:32	PaulFertser	swl: the most direct way to get events from the kernel is "input-events"
2021-07-04 17:25:33	twainwek	on both?
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2021-07-04 17:25:42	swl	No, I had gnome on fedora
2021-07-04 17:25:47	swl	I'll try input-events now
2021-07-04 17:25:48	PaulFertser	swl: from input-utils
2021-07-04 17:25:50	twainwek	there you go, that's a good starting point
2021-07-04 17:26:11	PaulFertser	swl: that can help you to pinpoint whether it's a kernel issue or not. Use lsinput to see what device might be of interest to monitor.
2021-07-04 17:26:52	swl	So I tried input-events and there's still nothing
2021-07-04 17:27:00	PaulFertser	swl: on the right device?
2021-07-04 17:27:13	swl	yup, it gave my my XF86Audio* keys
2021-07-04 17:27:40	swl	I'll try running input-events on a fedora live disk and see if that returns something
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2021-07-04 17:27:48	PaulFertser	swl: it's also possible it was handled by "embedded controller" directly and then you were just getting notifications via some ACPI or WMI magic.
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2021-07-04 17:29:10	swl	That sounds plausable, once my backup finshes I can boot up some live media (fedora / archlinux) and see if any of those pick it up
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2021-07-04 17:29:52	PaulFertser	swl: did you by any chance see some non-GUI notifications on screen when pressing those?
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2021-07-04 17:30:06	swl	What would be an example?
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2021-07-04 17:30:32	swl	What I did was switch to tty3, start a new shell with `nix-shell -p input-utils` and then run `sudo input-events 0`
2021-07-04 17:30:54	PaulFertser	swl: sometimes I saw something like progress bar to indicate current level of brightness
2021-07-04 17:31:04	PaulFertser	swl: I mean while it was working
2021-07-04 17:31:35	PaulFertser	swl: do you have any device in /sys/class/backlight ? I suggest you check it now and then when you boot with that other kernel.
2021-07-04 17:31:36	twainwek	swl: does xev not show your key press?
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2021-07-04 17:31:56	akik	swl: here's some kernel parameters that might help: https://pastebin.com/raw/S7txDV4T
2021-07-04 17:32:00	swl	twainwek: I'm using wayland- I tried wev, evtest and input-events
2021-07-04 17:32:13	twainwek	wayland on both?
2021-07-04 17:32:26	swl	Yes, Mutter / Gnome on Fedora, Sway on nix
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2021-07-04 17:33:44	swl	PaulFertser: I've got intel_backlight in /sys/class/backlight and brightnessctl works on it
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2021-07-04 17:34:42	swl	Somewhat interestingly, the 'mic mute' button and airplane mode also aren't picked up
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2021-07-04 17:34:58	PaulFertser	swl: ok, so when you boot another kernel check if you have some laptop-specific kernel module loaded.
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2021-07-04 17:37:58	Gustavo6046	filenames can have + and * is a wildcard
2021-07-04 17:38:15	Gustavo6046	can we make a calculator using only Unix filesystem and sh, but primarily the former?
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2021-07-04 17:38:35	Gustavo6046	oh, oh! - too, and / can be folders
2021-07-04 17:38:47	PaulFertser	"As of January 2021 deleting SecureBoot keys and installing your own keys (for example by using KeyTool) will brick the device. " omfg
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2021-07-04 17:39:16	swl	That's one of the only bad things about it
2021-07-04 17:39:54	PaulFertser	Is if Intel ME is not sufficiently bad
2021-07-04 17:40:22	akik	PaulFertser: where's that quote from?
2021-07-04 17:40:33	swl	Thinkpad T14 intel gen 1 archwiki page
2021-07-04 17:40:55	PaulFertser	swl: have you tried running acpi_listen? Please do with both kernels and try pressing those buttons.
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2021-07-04 17:43:02	swl	Nope, no output from acpi_listen
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2021-07-04 17:43:26	swl	My backup was prematurely stopped- is there anything else I should try before I reboot?
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2021-07-04 17:43:58	PaulFertser	swl: list of currently loaded kernel modules
2021-07-04 17:44:25	swl	I've got that on a thumb drive
2021-07-04 17:44:33	swl	Should I send it here?
2021-07-04 17:45:43	PaulFertser	swl: what kernel version exactly is that you're running?
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2021-07-04 17:46:11	swl	PaulFertser: uname -r gives 5.10.45
2021-07-04 17:47:00	PaulFertser	swl: the last T14 commit to thinkpad_acpi was v5.7-71-g7ed7748d2c9c , so you should have it included. Do you have that module loaded?
2021-07-04 17:48:10	swl	Yes, it's loaded- lsmod | grep thinkpad_acpi lists it and a couple of things like snd/video/backlight
2021-07-04 17:48:51	swl	And I can poke various things like keyboard backlights in /sys/class/leds
2021-07-04 17:49:33	swl	I'm going to reboot to fedora now, I'll reconnect once it comes up
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2021-07-04 17:55:42	swl	PaulFertser: Okay so I'm in fedora, and evtest doesn't show any input and yet GNOME is responding to those events
2021-07-04 17:56:15	PaulFertser	swl: so it must be getting them from somewhere, probably acpi_listen is showing it now?
2021-07-04 17:56:21	swl	Yes, is it
2021-07-04 17:56:24	swl	*it is
2021-07-04 17:58:16	akoana	Gustavo6046: sure:    mkdir -p 21; touch 1+1 2\*3 4-5 21/7;  printf 'printf %%s\\\\n $((%s))\n'  ??? */* ;}|bash
2021-07-04 17:58:31	Gustavo6046	:O
2021-07-04 17:59:20	akoana	(try this in a new empty directory :)
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2021-07-04 18:00:50	swl	PaulFertser: So if it's showing from acpi_listen, that means the loaded modules don't affect it, right?
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2021-07-04 18:02:07	markasoftware	how do I install python2 pip in Debian 11 bullseye? It seems like they've switched the official repos entirely to python3?
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2021-07-04 18:03:22	swl	Oops- hit the wlan key while testing
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2021-07-04 18:04:36	Gustavo6046	ooooo!
2021-07-04 18:04:40	<--	Camilo (~hugh@80-42-5-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-04 18:05:46	Gustavo6046	akoana:    parse error near '}'
2021-07-04 18:05:59	Gustavo6046	both in sh, bash, and zsh
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2021-07-04 18:06:10	--	astra_ is now known as astra`
2021-07-04 18:06:27	akoana	Gustavo6046: { mkdir -p 21; touch 1+1 2\*3 4-5 21/7;  printf 'printf %%s\\\\n $((%s))\n'  ??? */* ;}|bash
2021-07-04 18:06:32	Gustavo6046	ahhh
2021-07-04 18:06:38	Gustavo6046	:O
2021-07-04 18:06:40	Gustavo6046	it works
2021-07-04 18:06:42	Gustavo6046	yayy!
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2021-07-04 18:06:50	Gustavo6046	nice :D
2021-07-04 18:06:53	akoana	hehe, forgot the leading {
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2021-07-04 18:07:20	PaulFertser	swl: if it's shown from acpi_listen it likely means the kernel acpi module is doing something a bit differently, but I can't spot anything obvious in the git log.
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2021-07-04 18:07:37	akoana	mkdir -p 21; touch 1+1 2\*3 4-5 21/7;  printf 'printf %%s\\\\n $((%s))\n'  ??? */* | bash # works too
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2021-07-04 18:08:29	swl	PaulFertser: I'm going to try upgrading the kernel in Nix to the latest and see if that fixes anything
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2021-07-04 18:08:45	twainwek	can you have btrfs on an lv?
2021-07-04 18:08:46	PaulFertser	swl: that's what I'd try too
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2021-07-04 18:09:04	c705	twainwek: sure, but why?
2021-07-04 18:09:14	twainwek	why not
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2021-07-04 18:09:38	c705	btrfs has a lot of the features that lvm has
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2021-07-04 18:09:58	c705	i don't see the point, unless you want two different filesystems to coexist on the same partition
2021-07-04 18:10:02	twainwek	ya but then i wouldnt be able to resize it and extend other lvs
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2021-07-04 18:10:08	twainwek	yes
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2021-07-04 18:10:13	twainwek	no
2021-07-04 18:10:20	swl	twainwek: what about btrfs subvolumes?
2021-07-04 18:10:21	twainwek	not same partition, on same physical volume
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2021-07-04 18:10:42	twainwek	i don't trust btrfs enough to put my actual data on it
2021-07-04 18:10:47	twainwek	just /
2021-07-04 18:10:56	Dagmar	You're allowed to stack filesystems and disk management any way you like
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2021-07-04 18:11:16	Dagmar	...but some of those ways might not seem like the right thing once you sober up.
2021-07-04 18:11:24	c705	then why would you be using btrfs
2021-07-04 18:11:29	c705	none of this makes any sense
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2021-07-04 18:11:59	akik	another day in linux land
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2021-07-04 18:12:10	twainwek	c705: to be able to salvage a broken system next time glibc fscks up my system
2021-07-04 18:12:29	c705	but you don't trust btrfs to store data? like..what?
2021-07-04 18:12:37	twainwek	though maybe if glibc is fscked then btrfs won't be able to help
2021-07-04 18:12:44	c705	furthermore, btrfs snapshots are NOT backups
2021-07-04 18:12:46	twainwek	c705: not data, my own data
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2021-07-04 18:13:05	twainwek	are you reading or are you drunk because of freedom day
2021-07-04 18:13:15	c705	are you?
2021-07-04 18:13:22	twainwek	i never said i want to use btrfs as a backup solutioon
2021-07-04 18:13:29	c705	twainwek> c705: to be able to salvage a broken system next time glibc fscks up my system
2021-07-04 18:13:29	twainwek	i can neither confirm nor deny that
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2021-07-04 18:13:33	c705	what the shit is this then?
2021-07-04 18:13:43	c705	i'm out. good luck
2021-07-04 18:13:49	twainwek	c705: hi out, im twainwek
2021-07-04 18:14:17	twainwek	c705: i never backup my root filesystem. so no, i don't aim to use it as a backup solution
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2021-07-04 18:14:21	twainwek	but to be able to rollback
2021-07-04 18:14:27	lacroix	twainwek, be constructive pls
2021-07-04 18:14:45	twainwek	excuse me?
2021-07-04 18:14:53	lacroix	twainwek, be constructive pls
2021-07-04 18:15:01	twainwek	don't use pls please
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2021-07-04 18:15:22	lacroix	Be constructive.
2021-07-04 18:15:33	twainwek	i have no idea what you're trying to say
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2021-07-04 18:16:16	lacroix	I've said what I needed to say, the rest depends entirely on you now :)
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2021-07-04 18:16:29	twainwek	k
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2021-07-04 18:16:49	PaulFertser	swl: do you have CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO enabled?
2021-07-04 18:17:22	swl	PaulFertser: CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO=m in /proc/config.gz
2021-07-04 18:18:01	PaulFertser	swl: there's another strange thing Gentoo forum users say: they blacklist thinkpad_acpi and load it later manually and then they start seeing acpi events
2021-07-04 18:18:14	<--	autopsy (~androirc@172.58.19.233) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-04 18:18:54	swl	PaulFertser: really? I'm having a little problem with sway- I'm going to revert to an old generation and then I'll try that
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2021-07-04 18:21:25	PaulFertser	swl: it's mentioned here https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8582427.html
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2021-07-04 18:24:43	swl	PaulFertser: Well after running a rmmod thinkpad_acpi, acpi_listen is no picking up those two keys.
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2021-07-04 18:26:34	PaulFertser	swl: that's expected
2021-07-04 18:27:01	swl	PaulFertser: sorry, just noticed- I meant to type 'is now picking up...'
2021-07-04 18:27:14	PaulFertser	swl: without the module?
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2021-07-04 18:27:48	swl	PaulFertser: lsmod | grep thinkpad_acpi doesn't show anything
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2021-07-04 18:28:20	PaulFertser	swl: on that 5.10 kernel? And brightness control now works?
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2021-07-04 18:30:05	swl	PaulFertser: brightness control always worked. I'm still running 5.10. Sway's having a fit so I can't test with wev but pressing Fn+F{5,6} makes some output show in the console now
2021-07-04 18:31:47	PaulFertser	swl: hm, so that module is loaded in both Fedora and NixOS but in Fedora it doesn't "harm".
2021-07-04 18:32:00	greenbagels	what could cause a software RAID5 array (using mdadm) to perform very slowly while not even degraded
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2021-07-04 18:32:23	swl	PaulFertser: I belive so, let me check my logs from lsmod
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2021-07-04 18:32:43	greenbagels	SMART health statuses all report OK
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2021-07-04 18:33:56	swl	PaulFertser: yes, they both have thinkpad_acpi loaded
2021-07-04 18:34:24	swl	PaulFertser: I'm going to quickly reboot to very old generation and see if that fixes sway- be right back
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2021-07-04 18:36:45	NemesisD	hi all. i have a laptop with a 3840x2160 display and an external monitor at 1920x1080. trying to figure out how to scale them correctly. i found if i scale my 4k screen up with xrandr --output eDP-1 --scale 0.5x0.5 things look okay *except* the 4k display is blurry
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2021-07-04 18:38:40	twainwek	display is blurry or some icons/text is blurry
2021-07-04 18:38:47	PaulFertser	NemesisD: why do you want scaling? Any scaling should be broken in one way or the other anyway, by design.
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2021-07-04 18:39:37	NemesisD	twainwek: everything appears blurry on the 4k display. icons, text, etc
2021-07-04 18:40:22	NemesisD	PaulFertser: if there's another way i'd be happy to take it. basically i don't want everything to be super tiny on the 4K display or super huge on the HD display
2021-07-04 18:41:19	PaulFertser	NemesisD: the fonts should be scaled according to DPI automatically. Or do you mean not text by "everything"?
2021-07-04 18:41:25	Dagmar	Then don't try to "trick" it.
2021-07-04 18:41:37	Dagmar	You're not going to get a crisp image unless you match your resolution to the display 1:1
2021-07-04 18:41:54	swl	PaulFertser: blacklisting thinkpad_acpi manually and then loading it manually works
2021-07-04 18:42:01	curdlesnoot	or, at best, run a resolution that can be upscaled by a perfect integer multiple (which is not what's going on in this instance).
2021-07-04 18:42:03	swl	PaulFertser: Thanks for your help
2021-07-04 18:42:04	Dagmar	Some window managers are just not capable of dealing with very high-resolution displays because they're hung up on pixel measurements
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2021-07-04 18:42:25	Dagmar	THe font renderer, on the other hand, should be quite fine with real-world measurements like 12pt.
2021-07-04 18:43:20	NemesisD	PaulFertser: i include text and like icons and stuff when i say blurry. basically if i boot and don't make any adjustments, both displays are crisp because they're displaying in their native resolutions but all my applications are super huge on the secondary, HD display
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2021-07-04 18:43:29	PaulFertser	swl: "git log v5.10..v5.12 thinkpad_acpi.c" doesn't seem to show anything relevant
2021-07-04 18:43:43	NemesisD	Dagmar: i don't see how i can match the resolution when the two displays have different native resolutions
2021-07-04 18:44:01	PaulFertser	NemesisD: blurry, yes, everything will be blurry if you scale.
2021-07-04 18:44:35	PaulFertser	NemesisD: I was asking about the normal, non-scaling way.
2021-07-04 18:45:04	akik	NemesisD: some years ago it was possible to modify xrandr dpi with plasma 5 but that doesn't work any more
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2021-07-04 18:45:40	PaulFertser	Why would one want userspace that needs to be lied about DPI?..
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2021-07-04 18:46:39	akik	NemesisD wouldn't be here asking about it if there was an obvious solution?..
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2021-07-04 18:49:43	Dagmar	NemesisD: It's easy.  DOn't lie to X about your display resolution
2021-07-04 18:49:56	Dagmar	...or use the graphical configurator your distribution provides.
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2021-07-04 18:51:38	PaulFertser	I wonder how I would handle it myself if I had two very different displays. When moving URXvt screens between them I'd need something to send them commands to switch font size (assuming I'm using fixed fonts). Hm, that doesn't sounds straightforward.
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2021-07-04 18:52:00	NemesisD	i'm not lying about my display resolution. both monitors are configured with their correct native resolutions, but applications like firefox and chrome are scaled up like 2x on the HD display
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2021-07-04 18:52:58	PaulFertser	NemesisD: do they show fonts of wrong size? Like you ask for 12 pt but they're giving your something tiny on 4k display?
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2021-07-04 18:55:03	NemesisD	PaulFertser: yeah it seems like fonts show incorrectly. i would say the fonts look normal to my eyes on the 4k and large on the HD. like if i open up a GTK app like gimp on the 4k, it looks fine, if I move it over to the HD display all of the text and ui icons look really big
2021-07-04 18:55:21	NemesisD	i'm using xmonad and MATE
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2021-07-04 18:56:51	PaulFertser	NemesisD: what if you open e.g. Abiword and choose 100 % scale there? Does the font you see in a document differ too?
2021-07-04 18:57:01	NemesisD	i'm seeing some people suggesting wayland may handle this better but i don't think it's super well supported on my distro
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2021-07-04 18:57:50	firepup	what distro are you running
2021-07-04 18:57:57	NemesisD	NixOS
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2021-07-04 18:58:39	Cyborg122	hi
2021-07-04 18:58:46	ayecee	ooof
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2021-07-04 18:59:20	NemesisD	PaulFertser: abiword specifically is kinda weird. the text in the document looks pretty close but all of the UI elements like the file menu get super huge when moved from the 4K display to the HD display
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2021-07-04 18:59:49	PaulFertser	NemesisD: yeah, that's expected. So the system knows how to show text properly.
2021-07-04 18:59:57	PaulFertser	NemesisD: different size for icons is expected.
2021-07-04 19:00:22	PaulFertser	And other GUI elements
2021-07-04 19:00:42	PaulFertser	The toolkit needs some hints how to handle different DPIs.
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2021-07-04 19:02:07	akik	NemesisD: you said you're using mate. i think i remember hearing that they solved it with something called fractional scaling
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2021-07-04 19:02:32	PaulFertser	NemesisD: basically, this: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/1753
2021-07-04 19:03:22	NemesisD	akik: yeah i've come across that term in my search. unfortunately the fractional scaling settings are supposed to show up in mate-tweak and just straight up don't show up on my machine despite using the latest version
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2021-07-04 19:05:38	NemesisD	PaulFertser: sounds like i need to figure out how to switch from X11 to Wayland, right?
2021-07-04 19:05:47	Kyv	http://wok.oblomov.eu/tecnologia/mixed-dpi-x11/
2021-07-04 19:06:14	PaulFertser	NemesisD: if you really need Gtk based apps to be pretty in this environment, I'm afraid yes.
2021-07-04 19:07:02	greenbagels	what the frick
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2021-07-04 19:08:16	NemesisD	hmm ok, and even if say firefox and chrome aren't GTK apps as far as i understand, they're still communicating with GTK-based MATE and that's probably why they look so weird, right?
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2021-07-04 19:09:44	PaulFertser	NemesisD: I'd say no, they're just not getting real per-screen dpi information from randr and so do not scale accordingly. Probably their devs didn't care about the usecase for reasons similar to what gtk devs outlined.
2021-07-04 19:10:20	PaulFertser	NemesisD: chromium is using Gtk but with its own additions.
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2021-07-04 19:10:41	Kyv	Can you blame them?
2021-07-04 19:10:48	Kyv	Yes you can blame them.
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2021-07-04 19:11:35	firepup	can we make them fix it though?
2021-07-04 19:12:22	ayecee	sure, submit a patch
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2021-07-04 19:14:32	[[R]]	Kyv: i blame canada
2021-07-04 19:14:47	PaulFertser	NemesisD: xmonad can't work on wayland :(
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2021-07-04 19:15:03	[[R]]	bastards
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2021-07-04 19:16:18	NemesisD	PaulFertser: i saw some fork that supposedly does but last commit is 2019. i figured if need be i may be able to switch to a tiling window manager like sway and configure it reasonably close to xmonad? i've used xmonad for almost a decade lol
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2021-07-04 19:16:58	PaulFertser	NemesisD: I have no idea, sorry, still on plain X11 and Xmonad, and no 4k displays in sight.
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2021-07-04 19:21:17	akik	NemesisD: firefox uses gtk
2021-07-04 19:22:06	NemesisD	oh ok that makes sense then
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2021-07-04 19:22:14	rascul	there was some work years ago on a qt firefox but it didn't make it very far
2021-07-04 19:22:33	[[R]]	rascul: you're a qt
2021-07-04 19:22:39	rascul	i know
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2021-07-04 19:22:56	akik	qtpie
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2021-07-04 19:23:33	PaulFertser	Are firefox tab titles also unreadable?
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2021-07-04 19:24:21	PaulFertser	Probably you just do not need icons?
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2021-07-04 19:25:22	akik	you can modify the tabs with css if needed
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2021-07-04 19:26:23	Kyv	By the next Firefox UI change you wont even know the difference.
2021-07-04 19:27:09	Kyv	characters the size of Oldsmobiles and no means to change it
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2021-07-04 19:30:51	akik	it'll be a sad day when the userchrome.css doesn't work any more
2021-07-04 19:31:25	akik	i guess they'll try to tell the users how they're being protected
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2021-07-04 19:58:05	matiss	*badum tsss*
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2021-07-04 20:01:22	VJTD3	is there someplace that explains the naming conventions for the cipher suites? and TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x1302) seems to turn on multiple 128bit methods, is there a way to just get the 256 ones?
2021-07-04 20:01:34	VJTD3	for openssl that is
2021-07-04 20:02:35	[[R]]	🎶 Make me come alive... Come on and turn me on...
2021-07-04 20:02:42	<--	ackyshake (~ackyshake@user/ackyshake) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-04 20:02:53	 *	c705 turns [[R]] on
2021-07-04 20:03:06	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-04 20:03:13	 *	[[R]] sits there quiet... 
2021-07-04 20:03:17	 *	[[R]] has an electric motor
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2021-07-04 20:04:18	 *	c705 puts a stick in the motor
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2021-07-04 20:06:13	 *	firepup hammers the motor
2021-07-04 20:06:16	 *	iflema grabs one from the faggot
2021-07-04 20:07:17	[[R]]	iflema: what is the definition in that context?
2021-07-04 20:07:28	c705	edgy
2021-07-04 20:07:35	iflema	bundlke of sticks used for fuel [[R]]
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2021-07-04 20:07:39	[[R]]	ah
2021-07-04 20:07:46	[[R]]	but i said it was electric
2021-07-04 20:07:48	[[R]]	it doesnt burn sticks for fuel
2021-07-04 20:08:08	iflema	your assumptions will make a ass of you am nd me..
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2021-07-04 20:12:19	 *	iflema shut up and drive
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2021-07-04 20:16:30	ayecee	VJTD3: where do you see that it turns on 128bit methods
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2021-07-04 20:44:50	calamari	Is it possible to have an fstab entry that is mounted at boot time, but where Linux doesn't flip out and prevent booting if mounting it fails for some reason?
2021-07-04 20:46:14	[[R]]	calamari: what is it?
2021-07-04 20:46:22	kfrench	calamari: "nofail"
2021-07-04 20:46:28	c705	nofail probably
2021-07-04 20:46:33	 *	c705 fails kfrench
2021-07-04 20:46:38	<--	Wafficus (~sam@70.126.240.148) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 20:46:42	 *	kfrench fails over to [[R]].
2021-07-04 20:47:03	[[R]]	man, this home assistant ui is just annoying me
2021-07-04 20:47:14	rascul	tell it to stop annoying you
2021-07-04 20:47:16	calamari	kfrench: thank you, I'll try it :)
2021-07-04 20:47:48	[[R]]	rascul: its not listening!
2021-07-04 20:47:59	rascul	try a sledgehammer
2021-07-04 20:48:19	Khaytsus	[[R]]: I used HA for  while, but I just didn't find it..... useful
2021-07-04 20:48:23	<--	shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) has quit (Quit: shibboleth)
2021-07-04 20:48:26	Khaytsus	I found myself screwing with it more than using it
2021-07-04 20:48:42	[[R]]	Khaytsus: i wanted to track my thermostat
2021-07-04 20:48:51	[[R]]	and i remember in the past it would show it in the "States" transitions
2021-07-04 20:48:55	[[R]]	but it doesnt seem to want to show it there anymore
2021-07-04 20:48:58	Khaytsus	[[R]]: Does it move?
2021-07-04 20:49:04	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-04 20:49:07	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-04 20:49:16	Khaytsus	But yeah HA does do some kind of neat stuff by tracking and 'graphing' states
2021-07-04 20:49:27	Khaytsus	Like I could see when lights were on/off, so  yeah, that was kind of neat
2021-07-04 20:50:06	[[R]]	its showing a time graph of the temperature itself
2021-07-04 20:50:10	[[R]]	but its not shwoing the states changing
2021-07-04 20:50:22	[[R]]	and then the config system is just plain stupdi
2021-07-04 20:50:25	Khaytsus	Ummm..  the states were in "log" right?
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2021-07-04 20:50:47	[[R]]	history
2021-07-04 20:50:51	Khaytsus	And yeah the config system when I first started  using it was _really_ bad, everything was random files and everything seemed to have slightly different parameters
2021-07-04 20:51:01	Khaytsus	Everything yaml, but some of it was this, some that
2021-07-04 20:51:15	Khaytsus	It was actually better after some large upgrade.  But i also had to redo ALL my custom configs
2021-07-04 20:51:27	Khaytsus	None of them applied anymore because they were to be moved
2021-07-04 20:51:29	Khaytsus	yay
2021-07-04 20:51:34	Khaytsus	I think after that I just nuked it
2021-07-04 20:53:58	[[R]]	i found a thing to suppodely track my hourly energy usage from the power company
2021-07-04 20:55:38	Khaytsus	[[R]]: My smart outlets track energy use.  But I wonder, do they track self energy use
2021-07-04 20:55:47	Khaytsus	I mean they useeeee like..  2.5W I think
2021-07-04 20:55:49	[[R]]	i also stuck a thing to track my car charging on there, it'll be intersitng if it actually shows me what i want
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2021-07-04 20:57:28	Khaytsus	I had to charge my car a few times during the rona, but different ;)
2021-07-04 20:57:47	Khaytsus	My car threw an ABS light today.   FML.
2021-07-04 20:57:52	Kyv	bloody skin jobs
2021-07-04 20:58:08	 *	Khaytsus adjusts his skin
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2021-07-04 21:00:38	Khaytsus	[[R]]: What car do you have?  And what charger?  110 slow AF, or 220 less slow?
2021-07-04 21:00:41	<--	trusch (~trusch@87.122.94.79) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-04 21:00:45	[[R]]	tesla model 3
2021-07-04 21:00:48	Kyv	You'll never look as good in it as you did in the department store.
2021-07-04 21:00:52	[[R]]	i use 220V 20A (16A)
2021-07-04 21:00:58	mybalzitch	ooof charging @ 110
2021-07-04 21:01:09	Khaytsus	Yeah, I mean..   2mph?  I think?  heh.
2021-07-04 21:01:17	parnikkapore	Hi, Web speech synthesis is somehow broken on my computer - Both Firefox and Chromium report no voices available, even though I installed espeak and speech-dispatcher and restarted a couple of times
2021-07-04 21:01:23	parnikkapore	Can anyone help me? I am on KDE Neon.
2021-07-04 21:01:29	Khaytsus	[[R]]: What do you get on the 220, 12mph?  I forget
2021-07-04 21:01:32	[[R]]	i was doing 5mph with the standard wall outlet on 110
2021-07-04 21:01:38	[[R]]	Khaytsus: with the 20A i get 15mph
2021-07-04 21:01:57	Khaytsus	Okay snot bad.  Unless you take a road trip that's more than enough to fill up overnight
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2021-07-04 21:02:31	Khaytsus	200 miles, give or take, from get home to leave for work
2021-07-04 21:02:41	[[R]]	yeah, it'd be nice if i had more, but then i'd probably run into supply problems, and it'd cost  fortuen to run a new wire... it suits me, i charge twice a week and its enough
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2021-07-04 21:03:02	Khaytsus	How long is your commute?
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2021-07-04 21:03:21	[[R]]	like 8-10 minutes
2021-07-04 21:03:25	Khaytsus	Oh, heh
2021-07-04 21:03:26	[[R]]	4.3 miles one way
2021-07-04 21:03:56	Khaytsus	So yeah..  you could go weeks without charging
2021-07-04 21:04:00	Khaytsus	But no point in that
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2021-07-04 21:04:20	[[R]]	i charge on sunday and thursday
2021-07-04 21:05:03	Khaytsus	I'd still ahve range anxiety..  what if the charge station is out of service, etc
2021-07-04 21:05:09	Khaytsus	On trips, that is..
2021-07-04 21:06:06	[[R]]	the tesla network is great
2021-07-04 21:06:54	Khaytsus	Yeah it seems.  I've never looked, I know there's one supercharger station in a shopping center a few miles away, never looked for others
2021-07-04 21:07:14	Khaytsus	Most largish businesses these days have a few ports too for employees
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2021-07-04 21:07:38	Khaytsus	At work they have a mailing list..  If you leave your car sitting there idle on the charger you gon' get shamed
2021-07-04 21:07:48	[[R]]	they were trying to get them at my work, right before covid
2021-07-04 21:08:05	[[R]]	so with most people at home, that kinda got pushed to the side
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2021-07-04 21:08:34	Khaytsus	I think we have 6 pairs....  I think.  Seems right.  3 locations, two stations, two cords on each
2021-07-04 21:08:44	Khaytsus	But I don't think they're barn burners..
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2021-07-04 21:09:12	ayecee	thanks to UL safety testing
2021-07-04 21:09:23	[[R]]	freakin UL, ruining it for everyone
2021-07-04 21:09:23	Khaytsus	Screw safety, charge muh car
2021-07-04 21:09:37	ayecee	burn mah barn
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2021-07-04 21:10:36	Khaytsus	But yeah I think someone said they charge at like 5mph in a Prius.  I would guess most cars it's about the same?  I guess some cars may be more efficient than others.
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2021-07-04 21:10:55	[[R]]	5mph is the high end of a standard 110V outlet
2021-07-04 21:11:41	[[R]]	with a 220V and 50A outlet yo ucan get like over 30mph
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2021-07-04 21:12:24	Khaytsus	Yeah, they're pretty weaksauce.  But if you're in town and park there for 2 hours that's probably free
2021-07-04 21:12:41	[[R]]	a lot of places cost
2021-07-04 21:12:46	Khaytsus	ie:  drove to work and back, 10 miles, free drive
2021-07-04 21:12:54	[[R]]	i've only ever charged at home, at a super charger, or at a free one at some random business once
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2021-07-04 21:13:21	Khaytsus	I know someone that got yelled at using a charging station at a business once, itw as for their company vehicle.  He was like um, sorry, my bad
2021-07-04 21:17:03	strlcpy	Khaytsus: how far can you go with a full charge?
2021-07-04 21:17:03	-->	smol (~smol@user/smol) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 21:17:22	Khaytsus	About 15s, depends on how many tacos I've eaten
2021-07-04 21:17:45	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-04 21:17:49	Khaytsus	I charge my vehicle with dinosaurs
2021-07-04 21:17:51	Khaytsus	Ask [[R]]
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2021-07-04 21:17:56	[[R]]	's' is a unit of distance?
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2021-07-04 21:18:31	[[R]]	strlcpy: i've never gone down to 0, but my car is rated at 322, although my tracking software seems to think its about 315
2021-07-04 21:19:24	Khaytsus	[[R]]: Lawyers take some
2021-07-04 21:19:48	[[R]]	freakin lawyers!
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2021-07-04 21:27:54	PonyBlocks	hi
2021-07-04 21:28:06	parnikkapore	hi
2021-07-04 21:28:17	PonyBlocks	anyone away and know a thing or two with kvm pci passtrough?
2021-07-04 21:28:44	[[R]]	if they're away...
2021-07-04 21:28:59	PonyBlocks	i managed to passtru gpu to vm, but the preformance is horrible
2021-07-04 21:29:08	PonyBlocks	5 fps
2021-07-04 21:29:19	spyroboy	sounds like something isn't working as expected.
2021-07-04 21:29:29	PonyBlocks	do i need to have the nvida driver installed on linux?
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2021-07-04 21:29:44	PonyBlocks	no shit lol. its horrible have been strugling with this for 4 days now
2021-07-04 21:29:45	spyroboy	are you sure your processor has the correct extensions or whatever that makes virualization fast
2021-07-04 21:30:01	spyroboy	wait, where do you have your nvidia drivers installed?
2021-07-04 21:30:06	<--	amorenoz_ (~amorenoz@81.0.35.88) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-07-04 21:30:13	PonyBlocks	and tried to ask for for tips at distro and the kvm, but everyone is gone
2021-07-04 21:30:27	PonyBlocks	i only have dirvers installed on guest
2021-07-04 21:30:48	spyroboy	should be fine. have you confirmed the drivers are loaded?
2021-07-04 21:31:23	PonyBlocks	in device manager i see 2 display cards, 1 rhel and 1 gtx 1650
2021-07-04 21:31:29	spyroboy	and needless to ask but you have a display plugged into the card and your guest appears on that display, yea?
2021-07-04 21:31:35	spyroboy	rhel?
2021-07-04 21:31:45	spyroboy	what's 'device manager'?
2021-07-04 21:31:55	PonyBlocks	in windows
2021-07-04 21:31:59	PonyBlocks	my guest os
2021-07-04 21:32:00	spyroboy	well
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2021-07-04 21:32:12	spyroboy	sry I literally have not used windows in 15 years
2021-07-04 21:32:19	[[R]]	as it should be
2021-07-04 21:32:36	PonyBlocks	Mesa Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (CFL GT2) its listed only that on fedora34
2021-07-04 21:32:47	firepup	your specs?
2021-07-04 21:32:49	PonyBlocks	and i get the 1650 card up in windows
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2021-07-04 21:34:08	PonyBlocks	Intel® Core™ i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz × 12, and a gtx 1650. i got 2 monitors, and im using both now
2021-07-04 21:34:53	PonyBlocks	i have 1 hdmi port and 1 (display port) those look like 2/3 of a hdmi
2021-07-04 21:35:50	PonyBlocks	01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation TU117M [GeForce GTX 1650 Mobile / Max-Q] [10de:1f91] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
2021-07-04 21:35:58	PonyBlocks	Kernel driver in use: vfio-pci
2021-07-04 21:35:59	PonyBlocks		Kernel modules: nouveau
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2021-07-04 21:36:31	strlcpy	PonyBlocks: you're using the nouveau nvidia drivers?
2021-07-04 21:36:38	strlcpy	*kernel drivers
2021-07-04 21:36:59	strlcpy	try the proprietary kernel driver for your NVIDIA graphics card
2021-07-04 21:37:06	PonyBlocks	idk, i have installed fedora fresh, and just done update. have not installed any nvida driver etc
2021-07-04 21:37:26	PonyBlocks	just to do pci passtrue to vm
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2021-07-04 21:38:12	strlcpy	PonyBlocks: nouveau does not perform well
2021-07-04 21:38:45	strlcpy	it's an effort to reverse engineer nvidia's proprietary drivers for linux, but is not complete yet
2021-07-04 21:38:51	PonyBlocks	okey so i need to install driver on host os to make it work with vm guest?
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2021-07-04 21:39:23	strlcpy	PonyBlocks: yup
2021-07-04 21:39:26	strlcpy	https://itsfoss.com/install-nvidia-drivers-fedora/
2021-07-04 21:39:45	strlcpy	basically you just need to official gpu drivers, and you should be all set
2021-07-04 21:39:53	JohnDoe2	wait so pci passthrough is not actually passthrough? strlcpy
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2021-07-04 21:40:39	PonyBlocks	JohnDoe2, guess it need to "render" or some sjut in linux host os first
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2021-07-04 21:41:14	JohnDoe2	I haven't tried it yet but that cannot be the case. If you pass the PCIe lane through to the VM it should not be accessible to the host at all. It should not see it
2021-07-04 21:41:38	strlcpy	JohnDoe2: no, I just PonyBlocks to install different gpu drivers
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2021-07-04 21:41:42	PonyBlocks	but it need to be "passed tru" somthing
2021-07-04 21:41:43	PonyBlocks	:P
2021-07-04 21:42:01	strlcpy	PCIe passthrough is passing a real gpu
2021-07-04 21:42:16	strlcpy	however you need the correct drivers to run the gpu well
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2021-07-04 21:42:21	JohnDoe2	PonyBlocks aren't you passing that 1650 to windows?
2021-07-04 21:42:30	PonyBlocks	but then i need correct driver in that os
2021-07-04 21:42:41	PonyBlocks	like windows. that im trying to make it work in
2021-07-04 21:42:44	PonyBlocks	yes
2021-07-04 21:43:08	JohnDoe2	right yeah forget about the linux efforts to get nvidia to work, if you're giving it to the windows vm just install the latest official nvidia drivers
2021-07-04 21:43:16	PonyBlocks	fedora34 -> 1650 -> windows
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2021-07-04 21:44:20	Khaytsus	strlcpy: Why would you link to some sketchy useless itSfoSs site than something real?
2021-07-04 21:44:23	 *	Khaytsus points to http://rpmfusion.org/Howto/nVidia
2021-07-04 21:44:24	PonyBlocks	i installed the spice-tools for windows and then i could change rez from 800x600 to 1080p but then i lost the mouse icon, so i had a ninja stealth mouse in windows
2021-07-04 21:44:28	parnikkapore	I'm trying to get web speech to work, but somehow can't
2021-07-04 21:44:41	parnikkapore	Already installed speech-dispatcher and espeak
2021-07-04 21:44:52	parnikkapore	but both Firefox and Chrome does not list any voices
2021-07-04 21:44:53	Khaytsus	And if you're using passthrough yes the nvidia install would be in the _guest_
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2021-07-04 21:45:29	PonyBlocks	Kernel driver in use: vfio-pci
2021-07-04 21:45:29	PonyBlocks		Kernel modules: nouveau
2021-07-04 21:46:07	JohnDoe2	PonyBlocks if your linux host is seeing the nvidia card then that's probably not pass-through to the guest vm running windows
2021-07-04 21:46:21	PonyBlocks	lspci -vnn
2021-07-04 21:47:31	PonyBlocks	    0.119387] DMAR: IOMMU enabled
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2021-07-04 21:48:30	PonyBlocks	JohnDoe2, seeing the info when doing lspci -vnn
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2021-07-04 21:50:57	JohnDoe2	as I said I haven't yet played with that. Given this ubuntu -> windows guide apparently after you isolate it the host should state kernel driver in use is vfio-pci for the nvidia card
2021-07-04 21:51:23	PonyBlocks	yes it does that
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2021-07-04 21:51:32	JohnDoe2	cool
2021-07-04 21:51:55	JohnDoe2	so now in windows download the official nvidia drivers and see if it does install - generally their installer will halt when it cannot detect one of their cards
2021-07-04 21:52:01	PonyBlocks	and the gpu is found in windows device manager and accepting latest nvida driver, when not pastrue cant install the driver in windows
2021-07-04 21:52:10	JohnDoe2	gotcha
2021-07-04 21:52:20	JohnDoe2	but you're still getting crap performance? :(
2021-07-04 21:52:26	PonyBlocks	yes
2021-07-04 21:52:35	PonyBlocks	would be better to play on an 10 year old phone
2021-07-04 21:52:39	PonyBlocks	5 fps
2021-07-04 21:53:15	PonyBlocks	its some issues with the spice-tools for windows 10
2021-07-04 21:53:30	PonyBlocks	before i install the drivers then i was locked to 800x600 rez
2021-07-04 21:53:37	PonyBlocks	but then i had a mouse...
2021-07-04 21:54:07	PonyBlocks	after i install it the icon/graphics of the mouse pointer was gone, but mouse working. but then i can change rez to 1080p
2021-07-04 21:54:15	PonyBlocks	but still grap fps.
2021-07-04 21:54:16	firepup	doesnt windows have its own resolution option
2021-07-04 21:54:33	PonyBlocks	not if it greyed out
2021-07-04 21:54:38	PonyBlocks	...
2021-07-04 21:55:16	PonyBlocks	needed to spice-tools to be able to switch rez. becuse it was grayed out on 800x600 rez. could not make it smaller or bigger could not press the button even
2021-07-04 21:55:34	PonyBlocks	all greyed out.
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2021-07-04 21:56:13	JohnDoe2	that's again very odd - windows has its own GPU, drivers installed but no resolution option
2021-07-04 21:56:17	firepup	does the vm itself have an option for res?
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2021-07-04 21:56:52	PonyBlocks	the vm ware dont start on 1 display.. it starts in window
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2021-07-04 21:56:58	PonyBlocks	...
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2021-07-04 21:57:53	JohnDoe2	do you have a monitor connected to that card? that's where windows UI should appear once it boots
2021-07-04 21:58:05	PonyBlocks	yes
2021-07-04 21:58:09	PonyBlocks	i have 2 ports
2021-07-04 21:58:11	PonyBlocks	on computer
2021-07-04 21:58:16	PonyBlocks	and i have 2 monitors
2021-07-04 21:58:18	PonyBlocks	connected
2021-07-04 21:58:25	PonyBlocks	no more ports to plug anything into
2021-07-04 21:58:32	PonyBlocks	and i have 2 display working now
2021-07-04 21:58:45	JohnDoe2	that
2021-07-04 21:58:49	PonyBlocks	so yes i have 2 monitors and both are connected to computer.
2021-07-04 21:59:15	JohnDoe2	that doesn't clear it up for me. So your host computer is using your CPU's embedded GPU now that you gave the nvidia to the windows vm.
2021-07-04 21:59:31	PonyBlocks	yes.
2021-07-04 21:59:59	JohnDoe2	video output should go do that nvidia for the windows vm so one of your monitors needs to be connected to the nvidia, and the other to your host (motherboard video port)
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2021-07-04 22:00:14	PonyBlocks	host = Mesa Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (CFL GT2)
2021-07-04 22:00:20	PonyBlocks	guest = 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation TU117M [GeForce GTX 1650 Mobile / Max-Q] [10de:1f91] (rev a1)
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2021-07-04 22:00:37	PonyBlocks	i have 2 display ports on computer
2021-07-04 22:00:42	PonyBlocks	and i have 2 displays
2021-07-04 22:00:48	PonyBlocks	its plugged in
2021-07-04 22:00:54	PonyBlocks	...
2021-07-04 22:00:55	<--	nekonibble (~nekonibbl@user/nekobit) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-04 22:01:07	PonyBlocks	im running dualscreen now..
2021-07-04 22:01:16	JohnDoe2	you have both displays plugged into the motherboard and none in the 1650?
2021-07-04 22:01:50	PonyBlocks	i only have 2 ports on computer
2021-07-04 22:02:00	JohnDoe2	this is not about your computer
2021-07-04 22:02:04	PonyBlocks	...
2021-07-04 22:02:17	PonyBlocks	[GeForce GTX 1650 Mobile
2021-07-04 22:02:33	JohnDoe2	oh I see, laptop.
2021-07-04 22:02:36	PonyBlocks	i repeat one more time.... i only have 2 output ports on computer
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2021-07-04 22:05:11	PonyBlocks	 i did run a sh ls-iommu.sh  script and i see somthing odd tho. its a host bridge device in same group as the gpu,hdmi
2021-07-04 22:05:21	jim	what kind of sockets are they? hdmi?
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2021-07-04 22:05:42	dw1	in a terminal, if i copy a long line of text inside screen it adds unwanted line breaks. is there a fix?
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2021-07-04 22:06:00	dw1	outside screen, no line breaks
2021-07-04 22:06:03	PonyBlocks	1PisplayPort - 1 HMDI port
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2021-07-04 22:06:26	firepup	dw1 how does it line break? does it line break at the same spot?
2021-07-04 22:06:33	dw1	it breaks where it wraps in the terminal
2021-07-04 22:06:40	VJTD3	for openssl, TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x1302) seems to turn on multiple 128bit methods, is there a way to just get the 256 ones? excluding the 128 ones seems to not work.
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2021-07-04 22:06:58	firepup	vjtd3 did you ask #openssl yet?..
2021-07-04 22:07:03	jim	to what are you pasting what you copied
2021-07-04 22:07:03	VJTD3	yea
2021-07-04 22:07:18	jim	?
2021-07-04 22:07:20	firepup	jim they're pasting to terminal
2021-07-04 22:07:24	dw1	just a notepad. if copied outside screen the wraps dont become line breaks
2021-07-04 22:07:33	dw1	but inside screen they do
2021-07-04 22:08:04	dw1	same with shift-ctrl-c vs middle click
2021-07-04 22:08:25	jim	I wonder if you could paste it to a text editor first, then re-copy?
2021-07-04 22:08:41	dw1	it pastes in multiple lines if copied from screen
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2021-07-04 22:11:28	dw1	detaching and reattachign screen fixes it.. hah
2021-07-04 22:11:47	dw1	wtf.
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2021-07-04 22:12:37	dw1	gnome-terminal problems
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2021-07-04 22:16:41	parnikkapore	speech to text in web browsers is somehow not working for me...
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2021-07-04 22:18:24	firepup	did you look the problem up yet parnikkapore
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2021-07-04 22:19:02	mlu	parnikkapore: speech generally doesn't work for me :P
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2021-07-04 22:22:21	parnikkapore	I did look it up
2021-07-04 22:22:30	parnikkapore	Most just say to install speech-dispatcher and espeak
2021-07-04 22:22:42	parnikkapore	I installed both and restarted, but it still doesn't work
2021-07-04 22:23:04	firepup	did you check the articles for firefox/chrome about speech?
2021-07-04 22:23:07	parnikkapore	The voice list in https://mdn.github.io/web-speech-api/speak-easy-synthesis/ is empty
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2021-07-04 22:23:25	parnikkapore	WIll take a look just in case, brb
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2021-07-04 22:26:09	parnikkapore	I see nothing I haven't done yet...
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2021-07-04 22:27:23	strlcpy	so apparently I had a mistunderstanding about PCIe passthrough
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2021-07-04 22:28:01	strlcpy	NVIDIA drivers on linux do not affect the performance on the Winblowz VM, since the entire GPU is passed to the virtual machine
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2021-07-04 22:28:50	strlcpy	that being said, NVIDIA does have ample support for linux and the proprietary drivers work completely fine
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2021-07-04 22:29:26	strlcpy	nouveau is also catching up I think, has anyone tried gaming with them recently?
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2021-07-04 22:30:16	Kyv	cant even get nouveau not to crash
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2021-07-04 22:31:10	Nosrep	i used to have a very weak nvidia macbook
2021-07-04 22:31:14	Nosrep	nouveau worked fine
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2021-07-04 22:31:22	Nosrep	though the gpu probably wasn't the main bottleneck
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2021-07-04 22:31:53	Kyv	I only have experience with kepler card
2021-07-04 22:31:59	Kyv	which nouveau is abysmal for
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2021-07-04 22:32:49	strlcpy	I use a radeon tho :D
2021-07-04 22:32:53	strlcpy	zero issue
2021-07-04 22:33:04	Kyv	an older card but not legacy
2021-07-04 22:33:05	strlcpy	for me
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2021-07-04 22:34:28	onelegend	GUESS WHO'S BACK IN TOWN
2021-07-04 22:34:31	onelegend	ITS ME!!!!
2021-07-04 22:34:37	Kyv	get outta town
2021-07-04 22:34:43	onelegend	oh
2021-07-04 22:34:45	<--	onelegend (frosty@wireguard/tunneler/onelegend) has left #linux
2021-07-04 22:34:48	jim	legendary
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2021-07-04 22:36:43	Khaytsus	wait for it
2021-07-04 22:37:17	firepup	legendary fail
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2021-07-04 22:39:01	Kyv	go through every red light, there's a plane at midnight
2021-07-04 22:39:17	circuitbone	ledge end
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2021-07-04 22:39:52	parnikkapore	Anyone has any idea how I might fix TTS?
2021-07-04 22:39:57	parnikkapore	(from above)
2021-07-04 22:40:12	firepup	is there a reason why you need tts anyway
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2021-07-04 22:40:33	ayecee	if it scrolled off the screen it didn't happen
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2021-07-04 22:41:13	parnikkapore	I'm trying to use a transcription training site
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2021-07-04 22:43:00	ayecee	like a site that trains you to transcribe stuff?
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2021-07-04 22:44:34	onelegend	so a birdie told me there's been some windoze speak here ay?
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2021-07-04 22:45:15	onelegend	PCIe passthrough?
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2021-07-04 22:45:38	onelegend	speaking of virtualization, I wonder if its possible to run a paravirtualized gpu driver in a linux vm
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2021-07-04 22:45:56	onelegend	without PCIe passthrough or GPU virtualization
2021-07-04 22:46:05	ayecee	what is a pravirtualized gpu driver
2021-07-04 22:46:26	onelegend	If I were to for example, compile an amdgpu driver to make hypercalls
2021-07-04 22:46:34	onelegend	to let's say a Xen hypervisor
2021-07-04 22:46:42	ayecee	what are hypercalls
2021-07-04 22:46:43	onelegend	with linux as a dom0
2021-07-04 22:46:52	onelegend	 
2021-07-04 22:46:55	onelegend	 
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2021-07-04 22:47:22	ayecee	are you just making up random words
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2021-07-04 22:47:26	[[R]]	ayecee: are we playing jeopardy?
2021-07-04 22:47:39	parnikkapore	ayecee: yeah
2021-07-04 22:47:40	onelegend	when the guest OS is aware that it's a virtual machine and makes syscalls directly to the hypervisor
2021-07-04 22:47:49	onelegend	and no it's a real word...
2021-07-04 22:48:23	ayecee	i don't think you're using the word right then
2021-07-04 22:48:34	onelegend	yea
2021-07-04 22:48:48	onelegend	but do you know what I'm saying other than that ayecee?
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2021-07-04 22:49:43	onelegend	if a guest OS can modify itself to be paravirtualized, why can't it paravirtualize its graphics?
2021-07-04 22:49:56	ayecee	i think you're confusing a bunch of stuff together and i can't tell if you're confused or you're trying to confuse others as a joke
2021-07-04 22:50:11	ayecee	because you kinda do both a lot
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2021-07-04 22:50:46	onelegend	no I'm genuinely confused myself
2021-07-04 22:51:00	onelegend	maybe I'm asking the wrong question
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2021-07-04 22:51:29	Khaytsus	You act like you read a book about this; but only the odd-numbered pages.
2021-07-04 22:51:31	firepup	why don't you look it up, perhaps there is an answer. or no answer because the situation isn't possible
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2021-07-04 22:51:49	ayecee	how would you look that up
2021-07-04 22:52:04	firepup	i guess 'paravirtualizing graphics' would be a good starting point
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2021-07-04 22:52:35	onelegend	already did that
2021-07-04 22:52:37	onelegend	zero results
2021-07-04 22:52:42	parnikkapore	huh
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2021-07-04 22:53:22	onelegend	zero useful results at lesat
2021-07-04 22:53:24	onelegend	*least
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2021-07-04 22:53:31	onelegend	nothing of the sort I'm trying to do
2021-07-04 22:53:41	onelegend	guess I'll roll with PCIe passthrough
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2021-07-04 22:55:03	onelegend	firepup: the problem is I already looked it up and got no useful results.
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2021-07-04 22:55:38	ayecee	i think for it to work, the host would have to present an abstract video interface to the guest the way it would present an abstract disk interface, but perhaps video cards are so different that it would be hard to come up with a useful abstraction to cover them.
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2021-07-04 22:56:50	onelegend	sure I mean I could write some code
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2021-07-04 22:57:20	onelegend	doubt it would be useful other than an experiment
2021-07-04 22:57:20	ayecee	like, the pv guest doesn't know it's attached to, say, a hitachi disk. just that you can write blocks and read blocks to a disk
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2021-07-04 22:57:32	[[R]]	ayecee: is that like hibachi?
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2021-07-04 22:58:54	VJTD3	graphic cards have virtulization support if the mothboard supports it, vpro for example has paging of video cards
2021-07-04 22:59:14	-->	johnjay (~pi@38.120.10.99) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 22:59:33	ayecee	paging of video cards?
2021-07-04 23:00:03	-->	nekobyte (~nekobyte@user/nekobit) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 23:00:07	ayecee	what does that mean
2021-07-04 23:00:37	VJTD3	iut allows multiple things to share the gpu
2021-07-04 23:00:59	VJTD3	google intel vpro
2021-07-04 23:01:10	VJTD3	and gpu paging
2021-07-04 23:01:24	onelegend	oh no not that
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2021-07-04 23:01:46	ayecee	that seems to be gpu memory paging
2021-07-04 23:04:26	ayecee	hard to picture how it would connect to paravirtualization
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2021-07-04 23:05:42	ayecee	the google hits are low quality. i don't think this does what you might think.
2021-07-04 23:06:23	bindi	sr-iov
2021-07-04 23:06:38	ayecee	gesundheit
2021-07-04 23:06:55	bindi	sr-iov is the technology for sharing one gpu
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2021-07-04 23:07:06	onelegend	bindi: does it require a hardware virtualization
2021-07-04 23:07:13	<--	DsszzD (~DsszzD@2409:4060:2e8a:d4b::688b:8502) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:07:28	VJTD3	you need a gpu with the paging
2021-07-04 23:07:47	bindi	Hyper-V supports GPU-P and I got it to work with a consumer GPU (1080 ti)
2021-07-04 23:08:10	VJTD3	how was it?
2021-07-04 23:08:20	onelegend	darn it
2021-07-04 23:08:29	ayecee	this looks promising
2021-07-04 23:08:38	bindi	dunno, it works, didnt use it for anything :D
2021-07-04 23:08:44	VJTD3	lmao
2021-07-04 23:08:46	bindi	it might be windows guest only
2021-07-04 23:08:55	onelegend	sure
2021-07-04 23:08:59	VJTD3	the advanced stuff is what i was curios, ususaly it's slow
2021-07-04 23:09:21	bindi	https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/jym8xz/gpu_partitioning_is_finally_possible_in_hyperv/
2021-07-04 23:09:35	onelegend	If I can share a GPU between winblowz and Linux without vGPU functionality I'm down
2021-07-04 23:09:43	onelegend	*with reasonable performance
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2021-07-04 23:09:52	bindi	there's a helpful powershell script for copying the mentioned DLLs
2021-07-04 23:09:55	<--	apetresc (apetresc@user/apetresc) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:10:17	onelegend	thanks for the help guys
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2021-07-04 23:10:38	bindi	and that was supposed to work before nvidia unlocked the functionality from the drivers but I got code 43 (can see me whining in the comments), dunno how the other guy did it. now that the function is unlocked since some driver version, i tried again, works
2021-07-04 23:10:52	VJTD3	it's the stuff like directx that will be your problems
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2021-07-04 23:11:02	VJTD3	or hardware acceleration
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2021-07-04 23:11:37	bindi	hmm
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2021-07-04 23:12:01	VJTD3	vmware player can do it but only on older ones because of the security thing mentioned
2021-07-04 23:12:18	VJTD3	newer ones it's disabled
2021-07-04 23:12:27	bindi	someone has done steam streaming from a VM, i was actually gonna do that, have a cheap front-end device and stream games from inside VM without disrupting my main desktop
2021-07-04 23:13:01	VJTD3	you get get pci cards and assign them to a guest
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2021-07-04 23:13:44	VJTD3	that's esx though
2021-07-04 23:13:51	VJTD3	or similar
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2021-07-04 23:18:01	VJTD3	parallels might do that too
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2021-07-04 23:21:05	VJTD3	for openssl, TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x1302) seems to turn on multiple 128bit methods, is there a way to just get the 256 ones? excluding the 128 ones seems to not work, it's just ignored.
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2021-07-04 23:32:05	Dagmar	Mozilla has a whole site for generating configs
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2021-07-04 23:32:30	VJTD3	yes, but it does not cover this
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2021-07-04 23:33:42	VJTD3	it just gives a few generic sets
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2021-07-04 23:39:00	Guest4155	hi
2021-07-04 23:39:10	gry	Guest4155: hello, welcome to #linux
2021-07-04 23:39:27	Guest4155	so can i use this tools to ask questions right?
2021-07-04 23:39:41	gry	Guest4155: yes, questions are welcome here
2021-07-04 23:39:53	Guest4155	wow thank you. noted.
2021-07-04 23:40:19	firepup	if you need a basic summary of what a channel is about you can always type /topic
2021-07-04 23:40:30	gry	Guest4155: it is like Q&A forum but it is one long spaghetti discussion, it is not split into numbered questions
2021-07-04 23:40:51	TheLinuxNerd	Guest4155 it's like a Whatsapp group
2021-07-04 23:40:52	TheLinuxNerd	:-D
2021-07-04 23:40:55	gry	conversations start and end and may be a few in parallel
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2021-07-04 23:42:29	TheLinuxNerd	gry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ :-D
2021-07-04 23:43:01	<--	zebrag (~chris@user/zebrag) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-04 23:43:04	gry	whats that?
2021-07-04 23:43:16	TheLinuxNerd	gry a joke
2021-07-04 23:43:29	<--	CubeTheThird (~cubetheth@dhcp-24-53-244-47.cable.user.start.ca) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:43:40	TheLinuxNerd	CSI Miami description of IRC :-D
2021-07-04 23:43:59	 *	firepup cries as they can't see the video 
2021-07-04 23:44:19	TheLinuxNerd	firepup ever heard of X11?
2021-07-04 23:44:37	<--	TranquilEcho (~grom@user/tranquilecho) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-07-04 23:44:51	-->	michaelrose (~michael@89.238.176.181) has joined #linux
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2021-07-04 23:44:53	TheLinuxNerd	and a certain, illegal program, called Firefox :-D
2021-07-04 23:45:01	firepup	TheLinuxNerd i've heard of X
2021-07-04 23:45:03	firepup	and firefox
2021-07-04 23:45:11	firepup	but it will lay waste to my specs
2021-07-04 23:45:13	Guest4155	btw guys, are u using linux right now? or a ;linux installed in a virtual machine?
2021-07-04 23:45:16	firepup	firefox specifically
2021-07-04 23:45:22	mlu	edon't they understand that inaccuarte computer scenes are just as bad as bad acting?
2021-07-04 23:45:26	-->	oxum (~oxum@122.181.35.97) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 23:45:27	rascul	phoenix
2021-07-04 23:45:31	rascul	firebird
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2021-07-04 23:45:32	--	Guest4155 is now known as heymacoy
2021-07-04 23:45:56	 *	firepup smiles at rascul
2021-07-04 23:46:06	rascul	Guest2943 i only use linux when i'm drinking
2021-07-04 23:46:12	TheLinuxNerd	heymacoy of course, I run Linux on my server (SUSE Enterprise Linux, thx to Microsoft I get free license), I run Linux on WSL and in Vmware
2021-07-04 23:46:16	firepup	Guest4155 i am literally using linux in terminal mode as of now.
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2021-07-04 23:46:47	gry	hi heymacoy
2021-07-04 23:46:54	rascul	i use linux in all the modes
2021-07-04 23:47:02	<--	debsan_ (~debsan@181.44.129.25) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:47:15	heymacoy	men, i am very passionate about networking, but only using with windows. I am a newbie of linux. and rn im using virtual box installed with linux
2021-07-04 23:47:28	heymacoy	i am trying to familiriaze bash / cli commands
2021-07-04 23:47:33	 *	TheLinuxNerd spits at VirtualBox
2021-07-04 23:47:34	rascul	check out virt-manager
2021-07-04 23:47:40	rascul	vbox is kinda eww
2021-07-04 23:47:41	TheLinuxNerd	horrible 3d acceleration
2021-07-04 23:47:43	heymacoy	hi gry
2021-07-04 23:47:47	nvz	heymacoy: there is a #bash channel that may also be worth hanging out in..
2021-07-04 23:47:53	heymacoy	okayyy noted rascul
2021-07-04 23:47:54	TheLinuxNerd	I'm so glad I bought VMware Workstation Pro :-D
2021-07-04 23:47:57	rascul	https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/10/6/317
2021-07-04 23:48:15	nvz	heymacoy: you probably also want to learn the commands for finding help first... apropos, man, help, info..
2021-07-04 23:48:17	<--	frmus (~frmus@user/frmus) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-04 23:48:25	rifl	 /me took away TheLinuxNerd's Laptop
2021-07-04 23:48:50	rascul	vmware is poison
2021-07-04 23:48:52	<--	CoolerY (~CoolerX@user/coolerx) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:49:41	rascul	it seems like it's good except virt-manager exists
2021-07-04 23:49:41	Khaytsus	qemu/kvm virsh or go home
2021-07-04 23:49:56	heymacoy	so you guys dont get profit from this site, youre here just for fun answering else questions?
2021-07-04 23:50:14	rascul	there may be other reasons to be here
2021-07-04 23:50:14	firepup	linux was and should always be free
2021-07-04 23:50:16	Kyv	its pretty deranged innit
2021-07-04 23:50:17	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.181.35.97) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:50:19	firepup	so why not answer questions for free
2021-07-04 23:50:22	 *	rascul frees firepup
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2021-07-04 23:50:42	 *	rascul is here to party like a rockstar
2021-07-04 23:51:06	nvz	just don't rock out with your cock out
2021-07-04 23:51:11	rascul	i'm not really sure how rockstars party so i'm kinda just making it up as i go
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2021-07-04 23:52:10	nvz	rascul: very responsibly I'm sure :P
2021-07-04 23:52:13	<--	shubbu (~shubbu_@106.201.91.206) has quit (Quit: shubbu)
2021-07-04 23:52:18	Kyv	13 channels of shit on the TV to choose from is a good start
2021-07-04 23:52:19	rascul	i wouldn't know
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2021-07-04 23:52:25	rascul	Kyv you're a good start
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2021-07-04 23:52:31	heymacoy	any suggestion? a book or an online course for linux? i am only using free courses from Cisco NDG Linux. in netacademy.
2021-07-04 23:52:32	 *	rascul starts Kyv
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2021-07-04 23:52:53	VJTD3	linux from scratch
2021-07-04 23:52:57	 *	firepup initializes Kyv
2021-07-04 23:53:01	nvz	heymacoy: "Just Do It" (tm)
2021-07-04 23:53:07	rascul	do it real hard
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2021-07-04 23:53:42	<--	Smeef (~deathonat@user/smeef) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-04 23:53:42	firepup	better yet, just do and break your system all over the place. (fyi don't do this nor blame me. and please do take backups unless you want to start from scratch)
2021-07-04 23:53:51	rascul	just make a git hook to play this for every git push and you'll make the best softwares    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCadcBR95oU
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2021-07-04 23:54:52	nvz	heymacoy: it comes with documentation included, and lots of community support, just hang out in channels like #linux, #bash, etc.. and just dive right in
2021-07-04 23:55:13	heymacoy	yes thank you.
2021-07-04 23:55:29	nvz	heymacoy: apropos is the command when you don't know where to even start.. wanna do something with ip addresses? "apropos ip address" will list all manual entries containng "ip address"
2021-07-04 23:55:32	<--	anginapectoris (~anginapec@user/anginapectoris) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-04 23:55:46	nvz	then use man to pull up individual docs like "man ip"
2021-07-04 23:55:56	rascul	'man -k' is the equivalent for people like me who don't remember how to spell 'apropos'
2021-07-04 23:56:01	nvz	heh
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2021-07-04 23:56:18	firepup	i just delete all the manpages c:
2021-07-04 23:56:30	 *	rascul deletes firepup
2021-07-04 23:56:36	firepup	what NOO-
2021-07-04 23:56:43	rascul	rm -r firepup
2021-07-04 23:56:47	VJTD3	man pages are being canceled because it's woman excluding
2021-07-04 23:56:51	rascul	rm -rf firepup
2021-07-04 23:57:10	rascul	VJTD3 just alias woman=man then they're the same
2021-07-04 23:57:10	nvz	VJTD3: thats one way to go down in herstory
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2021-07-04 23:57:42	VJTD3	is that a sex change for man pages?
2021-07-04 23:57:48	firepup	nah
2021-07-04 23:57:55	firepup	we define woman to be the same as man
2021-07-04 23:57:59	rascul	you can do some configuring so that /usr/share/man changes to /usr/share/it
2021-07-04 23:58:01	firepup	therefore there is no distinction
2021-07-04 23:58:08	firepup	or difference
2021-07-04 23:58:10	Guest4163	h
2021-07-04 23:58:14	-->	bambanxx (~bambanx@pc-223-49-214-201.cm.vtr.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 23:58:16	VJTD3	so gender fluid configuration?
2021-07-04 23:58:26	<--	Guest4163 (~Guest41@103.62.153.212) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-04 23:58:28	nvz	really they should've just called it a womanual in the first place
2021-07-04 23:58:29	firepup	its simple as b=a
2021-07-04 23:58:30	rascul	or you can use /usr/share/fluid instead
2021-07-04 23:58:33	nvz	cause men don't read the manual :P
2021-07-04 23:58:36	rascul	it's all configurable
2021-07-04 23:58:47	-->	heymacoy12 (~heymacoy1@103.62.153.212) has joined #linux
2021-07-04 23:59:06	firepup	why did they even call it man pages in the first place instead of idk, shortpages?
2021-07-04 23:59:07	c705	rascul: you're comfortable
2021-07-04 23:59:14	rascul	you can even change git's master branch to be called butterflies
2021-07-04 23:59:23	firepup	although i dont mind it being called manpage(s)
2021-07-04 23:59:35	rascul	butterflies are pretty cool
2021-07-04 23:59:39	rascul	and delicious
2021-07-04 23:59:50	rascul	firepup some man pages aren't short though
2021-07-04 23:59:58	rascul	man bash
2021-07-05 00:00:11	-->	OkayPJ (~Thunderbi@111.201.131.142) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:00:25	firepup	docpages?
2021-07-05 00:00:27	heymacoy12	i will be definitely use this if i have questions. thank you guys
2021-07-05 00:00:41	 *	rascul questions heymacoy12
2021-07-05 00:00:55	<--	heymacoy (~Guest41@103.62.153.212) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-05 00:01:18	 *	rascul comforts c705
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2021-07-05 00:02:09	heymacoy12	whos been using virtual box here
2021-07-05 00:02:23	jim	not me
2021-07-05 00:02:35	rascul	i only use real boxes
2021-07-05 00:02:41	<--	tejr (~tejr@user/tejr) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 00:02:42	rascul	virtual boxes don't seem to hold very much
2021-07-05 00:02:50	heymacoy12	what do you mean?
2021-07-05 00:02:56	-->	tejr (~tejr@user/tejr) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:03:00	rascul	;)
2021-07-05 00:03:13	heymacoy12	you suggest me to use virt manager
2021-07-05 00:03:17	VJTD3	during the lockdown virtual boxes were more popular
2021-07-05 00:03:25	jim	qemu/kvm seems to work a little better for linux hosting more linuxes
2021-07-05 00:03:27	heymacoy12	yes, i see.
2021-07-05 00:03:42	<--	jmcantrell (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-07-05 00:03:48	heymacoy12	maybe for beginners. i consider myself a beginner of vm's and linux.
2021-07-05 00:04:23	jim	ok, I might have a few tips
2021-07-05 00:04:40	jim	for linux in general
2021-07-05 00:04:46	rascul	virt-manager is good if you like the clicky gooey stuff and it's part of linux kernel and is good and stuff
2021-07-05 00:04:47	-->	ZombieChicken (~weechat@user/zombiechicken) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:04:48	heymacoy12	I have a background in web dev and networking but i use windows for my development.
2021-07-05 00:05:14	rascul	vbox is the stuff oracle got from sun that was never really that great but had a few features that you couldn't get very easily with virt-managher
2021-07-05 00:05:21	-->	matsaman (~matsaman@user/matsaman) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:05:37	heymacoy12	ahh okay..
2021-07-05 00:05:47	rascul	and oracle is bad no matter what
2021-07-05 00:05:56	VJTD3	sometimes when i code i use windows too... they won't give me life insurace anymore...
2021-07-05 00:05:56	rascul	best to just stay away
2021-07-05 00:06:05	jim	what language do you use for the web devving?
2021-07-05 00:06:15	-->	jinsun_ (~jinsun_@user/jinsun) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:06:15	rascul	html
2021-07-05 00:06:18	<--	varighet (~varighet@d8D875A6A.access.telenet.be) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-05 00:06:35	rascul	and javascript and css
2021-07-05 00:06:45	-->	michaelrose (~michael@2601:600:c700:1bd:4f3e:4e40:42ed:731) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:06:53	heymacoy12	vue for front end
2021-07-05 00:06:57	rascul	btu sometimes it's nice to generate those things with languages like go or python or rust
2021-07-05 00:07:08	-->	freshgumbubbles[ (~freshgum-@2001:470:69fc:105::504f) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 00:07:13	rascul	wasm is fun also sometimes
2021-07-05 00:07:34	-->	buja (~buja@p5494f17c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:08:22	jim	heymacoy12, are you doing this as a job for someone?
2021-07-05 00:08:40	-->	Ademan (~ademan@47.185.84.39) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 00:08:51	heymacoy12	yep. a university here in philippines
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2021-07-05 00:10:22	jim	ok... for them, you should keep using this vue, and windows... you may wish to start learning somethign like python, to script the business logic
2021-07-05 00:10:54	[[R]]	jim: business in the front, party in the aback
2021-07-05 00:11:34	Ademan	not sure if this is OT, but anyone know of something like this: https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/06/04/reserver-2-bay-multimedia-nas-intel-core-tiger-lake-sbc/ that's linux friendly? I'm interested in a decent NAS platform that isn't gonna break the bank. I'm somewhat interested in the HPE ProLiant servers but I don't want to use their raid controller, I'm happy to pay a bit of CPU cost to have hardware
2021-07-05 00:11:36	rascul	party all around
2021-07-05 00:11:40	Ademan	independence, as it's only important job will be holding on to backups.
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2021-07-05 00:12:03	jim	there's a thing for python, called django, which is a very extensive, flexible and robust toolkit for doing web applications
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2021-07-05 00:13:05	matsaman	heymacoy12: vue? :/
2021-07-05 00:13:14	[[R]]	jim: django unchained?
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2021-07-05 00:14:08	VJTD3	Ademan, just reflash the raid controler
2021-07-05 00:14:17	VJTD3	on a proliant
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2021-07-05 00:14:31	jim	there's a tutorial/demonstration that shows a basic web app, and goes through the steps of building a django app
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2021-07-05 00:17:19	Ademan	VJTD3: it's possible to "configure" the raid controller to be pass through that way? interesting I'll have to look into that
2021-07-05 00:17:44	VJTD3	yea, that's why you reflash some
2021-07-05 00:18:13	 *	[[R]] flashes VJTD3 
2021-07-05 00:18:28	VJTD3	and just buy another bay for drives and replace your cdrom or whatever on old ones
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2021-07-05 00:19:06	heymacoy12	matsaman vue is a front end framework for building websites
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2021-07-05 00:19:24	VJTD3	double the drives for trivial cost
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2021-07-05 00:19:33	heymacoy12	yes i also have knowledge in python, i learn it from school
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2021-07-05 00:20:50	VJTD3	you can also buy preflashed raid cards
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2021-07-05 00:53:24	Dagmar	I just stick with mdadm unless someone's paying the bill for a raid card with a battery backed cache
2021-07-05 00:53:45	Dagmar	Hardware raid is typically more con than pro without that feature
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2021-07-05 00:54:49	schillingklaus	I stay away from raid whatsoever
2021-07-05 00:55:04	Dagmar	I have two additional PCI cards in my main fileserver at home with multiple RAID 5 arrays
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2021-07-05 00:55:10	Dagmar	The CPU load is inconsequential
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2021-07-05 01:06:30	AndroidDAW	the spacing for wc -c on macOS differs from linux and windows :(
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2021-07-05 01:07:01	[[R]]	AndroidDAW: that sounds unfortunate
2021-07-05 01:07:07	-->	Crofton (sid401373@id-401373.tooting.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:07:08	Sauvin	Might be because wc on Mac OS is BSD, where Linux's is GNU.
2021-07-05 01:07:09	-->	torshido (sid249474@id-249474.brockwell.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:07:10	AndroidDAW	yup :(
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2021-07-05 01:07:54	--	Apple][ is now known as Telvana
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2021-07-05 01:10:28	mybalzitch	ffs wheres nickserv
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2021-07-05 01:11:04	pandakekok9	wait, NickServ is not here?
2021-07-05 01:11:16	-->	Guest9 (~Guest9@185.242.5.35) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:11:21	Guest9	hi
2021-07-05 01:11:23	Sauvin	mybalzitch, mind the language, and no SMS.
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2021-07-05 01:12:17	mybalzitch	eyeroll.
2021-07-05 01:12:25	-->	euouae (~euouae@user/euouae) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:12:26	Guest9	Hi
2021-07-05 01:12:28	-->	mven (~mven@072-179-001-159.res.spectrum.com) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:12:40	-->	metah4ck3r (~meta@2.57.169.5) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:12:40	Guest9	How can i secure my Linux OS beyond using a firewall?
2021-07-05 01:12:45	-->	gwefnn (~gwefnn@user/gwefnn) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:12:51	[[R]]	guest9: what do you think you need to "secure"?
2021-07-05 01:12:52	-->	pyre (~pyre@crimeboss.nillas-power.com) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:13:02	Guest9	Protection against exploits etc
2021-07-05 01:13:07	-->	chemsmith (~chemsmith@user/chemsmith) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:13:11	[[R]]	dont download random crap
2021-07-05 01:13:12	Guest9	kernel hardening, intrusion deteciton etc
2021-07-05 01:13:12	[[R]]	probelm solved
2021-07-05 01:13:17	-->	Eickmeyer (~eickmeyer@ubuntu/member/eickmeyer) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:13:23	Sauvin	Nickserv is here, but boy howdy, it's LAGGED.
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2021-07-05 01:13:57	Sauvin	Guest9, home computer?
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2021-07-05 01:14:08	Guest9	yes home pc
2021-07-05 01:14:13	-->	jelly (jelly@user/jelly) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:14:19	--	Apple][ is now known as Telvana
2021-07-05 01:14:19	<--	denis471[m] (~denis471m@2001:470:69fc:105::40f4) has left #linux
2021-07-05 01:14:22	Guest9	lots of new bots coming online to the IRC
2021-07-05 01:14:22	-->	bookworm (~bookworm@neomutt/bookworm) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:14:24	Guest9	lol
2021-07-05 01:14:24	-->	sth (~seth@sys-v.net) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:14:29	Sauvin	Keep your firewall up, don't download random crap. That's about it.
2021-07-05 01:14:29	Guest9	where are all these accounts coming from?
2021-07-05 01:14:31	-->	WrathOfAchilles (unit193@libera/staff/unit193) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:14:34	Guest9	What more can I do
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2021-07-05 01:14:40	sheep	those are regular users
2021-07-05 01:14:43	Guest9	Snort IDS/IPS, Rkhunter etc
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2021-07-05 01:15:05	Sauvin	Sure, you can do all that if you want to be paranoid. Lot of work for virtually no gainm, though.
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2021-07-05 01:15:34	Sauvin	Install a couple of things on your browser, like ublock.
2021-07-05 01:15:35	-->	brandon (~brandon@user/brandon) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:15:42	Guest9	Lots of gain
2021-07-05 01:15:53	Guest9	Snort detects hack attempts
2021-07-05 01:16:00	Guest9	rkhunter may detect automated linux malware
2021-07-05 01:16:09	[[R]]	and how do you think you are going to get "hacked"
2021-07-05 01:16:10	Sauvin	Who do you think i sgoing to hack you?
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2021-07-05 01:16:52	euouae	How come I can’t resolve Ubuntu.com and libera chat
2021-07-05 01:16:53	-->	brb (~brb@user/brb) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:16:58	sheep	you may want to consider setting up some sort of Mandatory Access Control (MAC) or some sort of application sandboxing like firejail
2021-07-05 01:16:59	euouae	but I can visit on Firefox
2021-07-05 01:17:00	<--	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-07-05 01:17:13	Sauvin	euouae, "resolve"?
2021-07-05 01:17:14	-->	oxum (~oxum@122.181.35.97) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:17:19	euouae	With host
2021-07-05 01:17:26	-->	mkoskar (~mkoskar@user/mkoskar) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:17:32	sheep	I can resolve them
2021-07-05 01:17:40	Guest9	'They'
2021-07-05 01:17:44	Guest9	'They' can hack me
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2021-07-05 01:17:51	Guest9	Random hackers, NSA, etc obviously
2021-07-05 01:17:52	<--	unixbhaskar (~user@37.19.198.143) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-05 01:17:54	euouae	Thanks sheep
2021-07-05 01:18:09	-->	_mal (~mal@user/mal/x-8025409) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:18:16	sheep	how? they would need some attack vector
2021-07-05 01:18:19	Sauvin	The NSA isn't going to hack you. Also, if they wanted to, nothing you do will even slow them down.
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2021-07-05 01:18:41	ZombieChicken	Guest9: The answer to "How do I keep a state-funded entity from breaking into my box?" is "Don't own a box" or "Don't put it on the internet"
2021-07-05 01:18:47	sheep	if you're already using a firewall with properly set rules, then the only other vectors would be things like web browsers that can initiate outgoing connections
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2021-07-05 01:18:57	Guest9	thanks sheep
2021-07-05 01:19:01	ZombieChicken	Sauvin: Not being remotely accessible makes the problem a fair bit harder, though
2021-07-05 01:19:05	 *	[[R]] attacks sheep 
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2021-07-05 01:19:06	sheep	but if you keep things up to date properly, there won't be as many vulnerabilities that can be exploited in those
2021-07-05 01:19:12	sheep	if you don
2021-07-05 01:19:14	Sauvin	ZombieChicken, you have a point. :D
2021-07-05 01:19:15	sheep	oops
2021-07-05 01:19:18	Guest9	True
2021-07-05 01:19:31	sheep	if you don't trust the applications you run, consider sandboxing and using a MAC framework like AppArmor or SELinux
2021-07-05 01:19:43	ZombieChicken	Rule 1 of securing a computer (from the 90's): DON'T PUT IT ON THE INTERNET
2021-07-05 01:19:44	Sauvin	I think I have ublock, noscript and couple others running in Firefox.
2021-07-05 01:19:52	Guest9	Yeah ha ha
2021-07-05 01:20:00	Guest9	But for computer connected to internet
2021-07-05 01:20:03	Guest9	whats the most secure way
2021-07-05 01:20:04	-->	lemonzest (~lemonzest@user/lemonzest) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 01:20:14	sheep	what I said and what Sauvin said
2021-07-05 01:20:18	Guest9	minmum attack surface, and maximum security
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2021-07-05 01:20:36	sheep	also consider running applications in isolated VMs
2021-07-05 01:20:44	ZombieChicken	limit what you install can help
2021-07-05 01:20:56	-->	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:20:58	Sauvin	Guest9, if you're the average Joe Sixpack, I'm plainly telling you: nobody cares about your cougar milf wet sex porn collection.
2021-07-05 01:21:08	ZombieChicken	sheep: VMs can be broken out of iirc.
2021-07-05 01:21:17	 *	aaro takes out his tinfoil hats collection for sale
2021-07-05 01:21:21	Guest9	I have both a sixpack, and am a computer nerd
2021-07-05 01:21:28	-->	buja (~buja@p5494f17c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:21:30	<--	euouae (~euouae@user/euouae) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-07-05 01:21:43	ZombieChicken	Guest9: Most of us have a six pack somewhere. Mine is currently in the fridge.
2021-07-05 01:21:55	sheep	ZombieChicken: yes, but it's harder to break out of a VM than it is to break out of badly configured containment for things running as the same user account
2021-07-05 01:22:34	ZombieChicken	sheep: assuming that bit of software is secure, and as I recall, VMs aren't exactly simple things to write..
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2021-07-05 01:22:50	sheep	true
2021-07-05 01:22:50	ZombieChicken	but yeah, it's always about how high is the bar, and not whether or not the bar exist
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2021-07-05 01:23:13	[[R]]	ZombieChicken: we're going to the bar?
2021-07-05 01:23:14	Helmholtz1	watch -n1 long_command. What happens if I suspend (sleep) the laptop after running it?
2021-07-05 01:23:24	Helmholtz1	Does the counter stop? timeout?
2021-07-05 01:23:32	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: counter?
2021-07-05 01:23:41	Helmholtz1	[[R]], watch command time counter
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2021-07-05 01:23:48	Guest9	I want to be un-hackable
2021-07-05 01:23:50	Helmholtz1	or any geneal sleep delyat
2021-07-05 01:24:00	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: well while its suspended, its not running
2021-07-05 01:24:02	Guest9	Maximum sandboxing
2021-07-05 01:24:04	[[R]]	so when you unsuspsned, it continues running
2021-07-05 01:24:05	Guest9	Maximum ASLR
2021-07-05 01:24:08	ZombieChicken	[[R]]: Thinking more along the line of high jump/pole vaulting, but sure, I think you could shoehorn the concept into a bar
2021-07-05 01:24:11	<--	rifl (~user@user/rifl) has quit (Killed (mercury.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2021-07-05 01:24:16	sheep	Guest9: that's not possible unless literally everything you use is formally verified
2021-07-05 01:24:21	Helmholtz1	[[R]], both watch and sleep command behave like this?
2021-07-05 01:24:22	Guest9	It is possible
2021-07-05 01:24:23	ZombieChicken	Guest9: Not doable. Software always has flaws that can be exploited
2021-07-05 01:24:24	[[R]]	okay, we're going to the bar... ZombieChicken is buying
2021-07-05 01:24:31	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: every command you run behaves like taht
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2021-07-05 01:24:39	Guest9	if software always has flaws, then the bugs need to be patched
2021-07-05 01:24:49	Sauvin	Have fun finding them all.
2021-07-05 01:24:53	[[R]]	guest9: there are infinite flaws
2021-07-05 01:25:01	[[R]]	guest9: good luck writing infinite patches
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2021-07-05 01:25:09	Helmholtz1	[[R]], From where does it continue? for example suppose 'sleep 5s'. I suspend the computer at 1s. and open-up again after a minute
2021-07-05 01:25:15	Guest9	All im trying to say it its possible to be secure
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2021-07-05 01:25:23	Helmholtz1	From where sleep continues?
2021-07-05 01:25:26	sheep	yes, but way harder than you think
2021-07-05 01:25:27	Helmholtz1	0s or 1s?
2021-07-05 01:25:28	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: it continues from when it paused
2021-07-05 01:25:29	ZombieChicken	sheep: Nope. Formal verifications can still be flawed. All that does it make sure that the software is correct /compared to the specification/
2021-07-05 01:25:38	backleet	is there something FOSS-y for kindle paperwhite that is also usable?
2021-07-05 01:25:40	ZombieChicken	Then the specification can have flaws, or lack a needed check...
2021-07-05 01:25:50	backleet	OS I mean
2021-07-05 01:25:56	Sauvin	And I'm telling you that absolute security is mathematically impossible unless you drop your computer into a blast furnace.
2021-07-05 01:25:59	ZombieChicken	backleet: Not that I'm aware of
2021-07-05 01:26:10	<--	buja (~buja@p5494f17c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-05 01:26:11	Helmholtz1	[[R]], then what is the reason for systemd-timer or cron?
2021-07-05 01:26:19	Helmholtz1	Why don't people just use watch?
2021-07-05 01:26:19	ZombieChicken	Sauvin: I can still torture you with the scrap to get the data...
2021-07-05 01:26:25	sheep	those are for starting processes according to wall time
2021-07-05 01:26:28	Guest9	I am here to overcome that attitude, I am asking How.
2021-07-05 01:26:32	TJ-	Sauvin: but Devops don't use mathematic so we're good :P
2021-07-05 01:26:35	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: to start things on a schedule...
2021-07-05 01:26:42	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: watch has nothing to dow ith cron...
2021-07-05 01:26:43	sheep	and they don't require running a foreground process just for that one timer
2021-07-05 01:26:47	 *	Sauvin snickers at TJ- 
2021-07-05 01:26:48	Guest9	Qubues Whonix is the best model so far
2021-07-05 01:27:02	backleet	ZombieChicken: thanks, linux probably can be put, but probably nothing more than shell I guess
2021-07-05 01:27:02	aaro	to be totally secure on the internet just unplug the network cable
2021-07-05 01:27:03	Helmholtz1	[[R]], one can use sleep and watch and date to write cron
2021-07-05 01:27:04	-->	CrustY (~crusty@188.212.135.12) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 01:27:15	[[R]]	Helmholtz1: one can use the command line and not use X... what's your point?
2021-07-05 01:27:35	ZombieChicken	Guest9: What is your threat model? Little sister stealing your porn? Ex GF breaking in and trying to steal your bank info? Are you a drug dealer trying to avoid detetion by some small town cop? NYPD? FBI?
2021-07-05 01:27:50	Helmholtz1	[[R]], thanks
2021-07-05 01:27:59	ZombieChicken	Not using X is fun. Things are so much simpler...
2021-07-05 01:28:43	Guest9	I want to be secure against the maximum potential hacker
2021-07-05 01:29:01	[[R]]	did i miss the answer?
2021-07-05 01:29:02	ZombieChicken	Guest9: Do you believe in God?
2021-07-05 01:29:04	[[R]]	how do you think you are going to get "hacked"?
2021-07-05 01:29:11	TJ-	hacker's fix things; I think you mean "crackers"
2021-07-05 01:29:12	Guest9	Web browser is probably the most exploitable service
2021-07-05 01:29:18	TJ-	on that note I think you are :)
2021-07-05 01:29:24	Guest9	Quantum Insert, MITM, browser exploit etc
2021-07-05 01:29:30	<--	kirk781 (~doors@2402:3a80:1faa:dec7:fd79:5e66:4c1a:5d76) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-05 01:29:31	[[R]]	then dont use a browser
2021-07-05 01:29:33	[[R]]	problem solved
2021-07-05 01:29:33	<--	ax5623 (~ax562@user/ax562) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-05 01:29:38	 *	TJ- hands Guest9  an abacus ... there you go!
2021-07-05 01:29:41	Guest9	But i want to browse the internet though
2021-07-05 01:29:45	Guest9	thanks
2021-07-05 01:29:54	[[R]]	then i guess you'll get hacked
2021-07-05 01:29:57	TJ-	Guest9: that's easy ... look over someone else's shoulder
2021-07-05 01:30:04	schillingklaus	which of the many gods is zombie talking about?
2021-07-05 01:30:05	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.181.35.97) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 01:30:18	Guest9	I can build a browser sandbox, or a more secure browser
2021-07-05 01:30:22	ZombieChicken	TJ-: iirc, hacker is someone who knows a field /very well/. Some of the best crackers probably classify as both
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2021-07-05 01:31:03	 *	[[R]] gets his machette out
2021-07-05 01:31:05	schillingklaus	linus torvalds is the hacker par excellence
2021-07-05 01:31:09	TJ-	ZombieChicken: that is possible but the catb definition is the correct one - not the one media has subborned
2021-07-05 01:31:11	[[R]]	guest9: sounds like a plan
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2021-07-05 01:31:46	Guest9	Qubes Whonix and or Tails is best
2021-07-05 01:32:01	Guest9	probably
2021-07-05 01:32:02	ZombieChicken	TJ-: Yeah. Problem is using the old definition just causes more headaches when you're talking about this kind of thing, and honestly, I don't think one needs to worry that much about your run of the mill scriptkiddie
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2021-07-05 01:32:26	TJ-	The 'best' is something non-standard - something unique that attackers cannot have practiced against
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2021-07-05 01:32:45	Guest9	Imagine code so new, there is no exploit code written for it yet
2021-07-05 01:32:53	Guest9	Man back in 2007 malware was so easy
2021-07-05 01:33:11	Guest9	Signature based antivirus
2021-07-05 01:33:19	Guest9	Just compile new code and its undetectable for weeks
2021-07-05 01:33:31	Guest9	Now a days we have AI, sandboxing heurestics
2021-07-05 01:33:41	Guest9	Malware in 2007 was super easy
2021-07-05 01:33:41	TJ-	Whenever you've got software that is mass distributed with a single build you've got a candidate for compromises being discovered at leisure and weaponised, and then aimed at systems with those standard installations
2021-07-05 01:33:47	Guest9	Today its like APT level
2021-07-05 01:33:53	ZombieChicken	I imagine most of the dangerous crackers enjoy that. Their target is always moving...
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2021-07-05 01:34:14	Guest9	Just remember the classic Windows XP with AVG antivirus? Just use a basic crypter and the virus is FUD
2021-07-05 01:34:15	schillingklaus	gentoo does not mass-build
2021-07-05 01:34:30	ZombieChicken	schillingklaus: It does in some cases, but it's the exception, not the rule
2021-07-05 01:34:35	schillingklaus	gentoo does not mass-distribute a single build
2021-07-05 01:34:48	ZombieChicken	Firefox-bin, rust-bin, libreoffice-bin....
2021-07-05 01:34:59	ZombieChicken	think there is one for chromium...
2021-07-05 01:35:05	ZombieChicken	probably Chrome itself
2021-07-05 01:35:08	schillingklaus	those crapwares are to be avoided, anyways
2021-07-05 01:35:13	<--	thaumavorio_ (~thaumavor@thaumavor.io) has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-07-05 01:35:25	TJ-	schillingklaus: if the build scripts effectively do perform the same build with similar/the same compiler/linker flags, it can be considered the same from an attacker standpoint
2021-07-05 01:35:28	<--	Guest9 (~Guest9@185.242.5.35) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-05 01:35:47	ZombieChicken	TJ-: Variance in USE-flags and CFLAGS makes a diff
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2021-07-05 01:36:13	TJ-	ZombieChicken: agreed but how much of an obstacle do those create? I'd be interested to see studies
2021-07-05 01:36:35	ZombieChicken	TJ-: Would certainly depend on the package, to be sure
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2021-07-05 01:37:03	schillingklaus	snapd is the worst... lots of mass distribution of single builds
2021-07-05 01:37:12	[[R]]	totally the worst
2021-07-05 01:37:25	ZombieChicken	Getting GCC to randomize the output structure would be great
2021-07-05 01:37:43	riff-IRC	>snap
2021-07-05 01:37:48	riff-IRC	iew
2021-07-05 01:37:57	riff-IRC	uh, why'd CTRL let go?
2021-07-05 01:38:02	riff-IRC	let's try this again
2021-07-05 01:38:07	riff-IRC	>snap
2021-07-05 01:38:07	ZombieChicken	snap? Isn't that like that other thing? What was it?
2021-07-05 01:38:10	riff-IRC	ew
2021-07-05 01:38:17	schillingklaus	flatpac
2021-07-05 01:38:25	ZombieChicken	Thought there was something older
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2021-07-05 01:38:32	ZombieChicken	Involved an elephant or something?
2021-07-05 01:38:40	ZombieChicken	Thinking dropbox, but I know that is wrong...
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2021-07-05 01:39:44	schillingklaus	everything that emulates appstores of the great smartphone systems
2021-07-05 01:40:26	<--	oxum (~oxum@122.181.35.97) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 01:40:30	backleet	has anyone come across this particular issue: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/NetworkManager-openvpn/-/issues/63 and https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/NetworkManager-openvpn/-/issues/55 it hasn't been fixed, upstream is really slow with bugs
2021-07-05 01:40:30	ZombieChicken	you mean emulates your typical bin-based distro?
2021-07-05 01:40:46	backleet	 /msg alis networkmanager
2021-07-05 01:40:49	backleet	oops
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2021-07-05 01:42:43	ZombieChicken	no good network manager exist that I have found
2021-07-05 01:43:02	schillingklaus	I stick to ifconfig
2021-07-05 01:43:51	ZombieChicken	yeah, but when you're dealing with wifi at random places, and trying to avoid having your entire network setup taken over by some crapware...
2021-07-05 01:43:57	ZombieChicken	and want to do it /easily/
2021-07-05 01:43:59	ZombieChicken	you're fucked
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2021-07-05 01:44:28	TJ-	mentioning snaps, flatpak... the same applies then to docker container images and, especially, node.js npm packages!
2021-07-05 01:44:43	ZombieChicken	DOCKER!
2021-07-05 01:44:45	ZombieChicken	that was it
2021-07-05 01:45:02	ZombieChicken	TJ-: Also possibly Rust Cargo system, Go's dep handling system...
2021-07-05 01:45:07	schillingklaus	node.js can be recompiled
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2021-07-05 01:46:30	TJ-	ZombieChicken: re networks - I've found the best defence sometimes is using IPv6-only networking. We are building an extremely simply-to-reason-about replacement for Kubernetes that does that, using standard distro system tooling and standard network protocols, no mass of non-standard go executables or whatever
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2021-07-05 01:48:26	ZombieChicken	TJ-: I'm pondering tryng to cobble something together with bash and dialog and start working on it. Something that won't make me wish death upon the brainless moron that decided "Oh hey! We should overwrite /etc/resolv.conf because no one touches /that/ ever!"
2021-07-05 01:48:50	TJ-	schillingklaus: in the node ecosystem the vulnerability is in the mass of amateurish small modules many/most larger projects rely upon where it is obvious they were thrown together by someone that doesn't understand the domain, and probably barely has a grasp of defensive, or Javascript, programming
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2021-07-05 01:49:14	jim	ZombieChicken, please watch the language while you're here
2021-07-05 01:49:32	Guest68	any1 here ever use the heroku free tier?
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2021-07-05 01:50:10	schillingklaus	systemd tries to do away with resolv.conf ...as with a lot of good old useful stuff, and replace it with excessive horrors
2021-07-05 01:51:01	ZombieChicken	schillingklaus: one reason I still use gentoo
2021-07-05 01:51:15	ZombieChicken	The list of good distros is very, VERY small
2021-07-05 01:51:56	TJ-	ZombieChicken: Well you'll like what we're creating then. We spent last year doing the network R&D to ensure we can use standard network protocols to do load-balancing, failover, and the like automatically (ECMP) and this year soo far we've done the work to ensure systemd-nspawn/systemd-machined can operate the (unprivileged) containers with their own namespaces. Currently finalising the overlayfs
2021-07-05 01:51:58	TJ-	based container image design and hoping to have it ready for 1st release end of year.
2021-07-05 01:52:27	ZombieChicken	TJ-: So your software depends on systemd?
2021-07-05 01:52:36	TJ-	schillingklaus: no, it doesn't, systemd-resolved integrates with resolv.conf (sets it as a symlink to sd-rd's stub)
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2021-07-05 01:53:17	TJ-	ZombieChicken: yes. all along the line we're trying to ensure we do not create anything new, only build on what is already generally available
2021-07-05 01:54:02	ZombieChicken	I won't install anything with a dependency on systemd. I dislike what I see a poorly designed voluntary malware
2021-07-05 01:54:22	TJ-	ZombieChicken: you're not our target audience
2021-07-05 01:54:44	ZombieChicken	TJ- | ZombieChicken: Well you'll like what we're creating then.
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2021-07-05 01:58:23	schillingklaus	i still use the laziest options for avoiding systemd, but this might become tedious
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2021-07-05 01:58:50	ZombieChicken	schillingklaus: Don't install a systemd-based distro makes it reasonably easy.
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2021-07-05 01:59:20	matsaman	schillingklaus: there are whole distros where it isn't packaged or is optional
2021-07-05 01:59:37	ZombieChicken	Gentoo makes it optional
2021-07-05 01:59:43	matsaman	Gentoo is very sensible
2021-07-05 01:59:58	matsaman	a package manager is for choosing packages yourself, after all
2021-07-05 02:00:42	TJ-	I find it ironic the reaction to a monolithic system supervisor with predictable config and integration where it matters, rather than disparate loosely coupled non-predictable miss-mash as sysv-init was/is, when it's on top of a monolithic kernel with predictable config and integration where it matters!
2021-07-05 02:00:43	ZombieChicken	I don't think I'd call portage sensible. I get the feeling it's way more complex than it needs to be
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2021-07-05 02:01:20	Kyv	there are other innits, innit
2021-07-05 02:01:40	matsaman	TJ-: further proof of the general irrelevance of kernels over user space
2021-07-05 02:02:09	matsaman	ZombieChicken: compared to what
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2021-07-05 02:03:05	ZombieChicken	matsaman: The kiss linux package manager is something like 1k lines of bash. Portage has grown a lot over the years and, to my knowledge, has never been rewritten (which is both good and bad)
2021-07-05 02:03:14	schillingklaus	sysvinit is great as long as it uses posix-compliant scripts
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2021-07-05 02:04:18	matsaman	ZombieChicken: rm can be pretty short
2021-07-05 02:04:22	matsaman	and also useless
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2021-07-05 02:05:04	ZombieChicken	I have issues with almost all of the common unix userland
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2021-07-05 02:05:26	matsaman	I don't have issues with pipes
2021-07-05 02:05:31	matsaman	maybe everything else
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2021-07-05 02:10:22	schillingklaus	what is wrong with the common unix userland?
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2021-07-05 02:10:44	matsaman	not enough for ZombieChicken to not use it, obviously
2021-07-05 02:10:54	matsaman	but being the least crap doesn't mean a thing isn't crap still
2021-07-05 02:11:50	ZombieChicken	schillingklaus: Lack of flexibility. I can't just patch, say, rm to securely delete something (ala shred) and expect anything else that deletes files to do the same
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2021-07-05 02:16:33	Sauvin	Sure you could! Just intercept the unlink() syscall!
2021-07-05 02:16:43	Guest42	hi there, what it the concept of thinloop with lvm
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2021-07-05 02:17:15	Voxel	Check this out: https://twitter.com/KrashHash/status/1411725491581587457
2021-07-05 02:17:20	Voxel	> PSA: If you use Audacity, the new owners just updated the terms of service so they can collect data on you, including for very open-ended "legal enforcement"; and then sell it to "potential buyers" all without your consent
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2021-07-05 02:18:12	ilinux-os-user	Audacity is headed for disaster...
2021-07-05 02:18:15	Sauvin	Voxel: links?
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2021-07-05 02:19:15	Voxel	Sauvin, https://archive.fo/d3LBR
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2021-07-05 02:20:58	Sauvin	What is "archive.fo", why did it require a captcha and how does it relate to Audacity?
2021-07-05 02:21:16	ZombieChicken	Sauvin: Attack site perhaps?
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2021-07-05 02:21:35	Sauvin	I smell hysteria.
2021-07-05 02:21:40	--	pong is now known as beaver
2021-07-05 02:21:49	schillingklaus	I don't use audaciousness or what it's called
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2021-07-05 02:22:37	matsaman	Voxel: Linux users don't use random binaries from websites, they use audited packages of open source software provided by distro package maintainers
2021-07-05 02:22:55	matsaman	tell #windows
2021-07-05 02:22:57	ZombieChicken	heheh. audited
2021-07-05 02:23:21	matsaman	ZombieChicken: yes, compared to a binary, for rsure
2021-07-05 02:23:25	matsaman	fororororosure
2021-07-05 02:23:27	 *	ZombieChicken wonders how many packages in debians repos have been fully audited
2021-07-05 02:23:44	schillingklaus	systemd is never really audited
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2021-07-05 02:23:52	matsaman	there is no linux distro maintainer who would package such a source
2021-07-05 02:24:22	ZombieChicken	schillingklaus: I don't think it would survive an audit
2021-07-05 02:24:36	spyroboy	matsaman, unfortunately a lot of 'linux users' run arbitrarily sourced, unsigned, unauthorized binaries on their system.
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2021-07-05 02:24:52	ZombieChicken	Someone would stop 3 files in and hand them a report with a security flaw every 20 lines
2021-07-05 02:24:53	loganlee	i run those binaries on my vm
2021-07-05 02:25:21	matsaman	spyroboy: unfortunatelyer, 'a lot' in a statement like that is pretty meaningless =P
2021-07-05 02:25:30	matsaman	the majority of linux users user their package manager first
2021-07-05 02:25:35	Sauvin	too damn many Linux users just install crap from random websites. :\
2021-07-05 02:25:42	matsaman	also true
2021-07-05 02:25:47	matsaman	but still the minority
2021-07-05 02:26:11	spyroboy	it's not meaningless. there are definitely a lot of them where the definition is of 'a lot' is 'not zero' and 'too many to be comfortable with'
2021-07-05 02:26:21	Sauvin	Guess I consider myself lucky to be deaf in this case, being unable to use something like audacity.
2021-07-05 02:26:23	ZombieChicken	amazing just how much software out there isn't packaged
2021-07-05 02:26:35	schillingklaus	especially *ubuntu users
2021-07-05 02:26:42	Sauvin	Not really. It's a pick'n'choose thing.
2021-07-05 02:26:48	spyroboy	I'd definitely agree that most people use their package manager first but there's been a huge increase in people subverting their package manager.
2021-07-05 02:26:58	loganlee	i prefer snapd and flatpak over apt
2021-07-05 02:27:03	spyroboy	like flatpaks or whatever the hell people are using these days.
2021-07-05 02:27:17	Sauvin	Somewhere, somehow, somebody has to draw a line and say "we can include THESE several thousand packages, and if users need more, they'll have to go shopping!"
2021-07-05 02:27:17	matsaman	snapjoints
2021-07-05 02:27:26	spyroboy	I also don't think that fedora copr provides any real guarantees and it's built into dnf.
2021-07-05 02:27:27	ZombieChicken	Docker, flatpak, and snap all seem like the Holy Grail for crackers
2021-07-05 02:27:37	Sauvin	Flatpaks, snaps and appimages?
2021-07-05 02:27:44	spyroboy	arch linux's aur is also a certain cesspit.
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2021-07-05 02:27:47	Kyv	Those are not secure things.
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2021-07-05 02:28:00	matsaman	snaps can be little filesystems provided by upstream, they're a total joke
2021-07-05 02:28:03	spyroboy	docker is yet another to join the fray on insecure distributions.
2021-07-05 02:28:09	matsaman	docker, pshaw
2021-07-05 02:28:38	schillingklaus	can't docker images be compiled individuallyn from upstream sources?
2021-07-05 02:28:48	spyroboy	I'll agree that 'most people' might use their package manager first but over the years the package manager has ceded a lot of ground to third party distribution.
2021-07-05 02:28:53	spyroboy	and that's scary and unfortunate.
2021-07-05 02:29:34	spyroboy	schillingklaus, all of these methods can be secure but most people don't follow through with the steps required to make them secure.
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2021-07-05 02:29:45	spyroboy	first party package managers do. that's why you can vaguely trust it.
2021-07-05 02:29:59	ZombieChicken	If you are using those sources, I'm going to assume you're too lazy to do the proper deployment yourself anyways
2021-07-05 02:30:01	spyroboy	i.e. the defaults are secure and have a central authority.
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2021-07-05 02:30:36	Kyv	Every so often some malicious code passes through the AUR, I dont know how this holds a candle to flatpak, or snap, whose users dont know any better and are full of misconceptions.
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2021-07-05 02:31:34	ZombieChicken	Kyv: Don't forget Debian patching out the only source of real randomness in OpenSSL...
2021-07-05 02:31:38	Guest42	what does thinpool mean in lvm
2021-07-05 02:31:47	spyroboy	I'm not even sure if this discussion is even worthwhile. people who use MacOS or Windows have been taught to be content with downloading programs (arbitrary code) from the internet and execute it on their machines.
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2021-07-05 02:32:07	spyroboy	the same people then use Linux, or whatever, and have the same expectation of security.
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2021-07-05 02:32:18	ZombieChicken	spyroboy: Yeah. The issue is they carry that over when/if they migrate to Linux
2021-07-05 02:32:23	Kyv	This isnt a MacOS or Windows channel.
2021-07-05 02:32:25	spyroboy	the rest of us will be skeptical like we always have.
2021-07-05 02:32:37	Voxel	I see.
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2021-07-05 02:32:54	Voxel	matsaman, how are you sure that maintainers are sceptic about that?
2021-07-05 02:33:01	Voxel	Just curious
2021-07-05 02:33:06	spyroboy	ZombieChicken, it doesn't matter though. the linux community has a strong cultural foundation so it likely won't be swayed by people who don't know the culture.
2021-07-05 02:33:13	spyroboy	that's what I mean.
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2021-07-05 02:33:46	schillingklaus	openbsd claims more security
2021-07-05 02:34:18	ilinux-os-user	An Audacity clone will emerge soon and Audacity will be lost into oblivion...
2021-07-05 02:34:20	ZombieChicken	spyroboy: The problem is a lot of these newbies flock to certain distros, meaning that mentality becomes almost common place there
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2021-07-05 02:35:02	Sauvin	The commercial entity will probably try to haul whoever forks Audacity into court.
2021-07-05 02:35:15	spyroboy	that's fair. to be honest, I think that's a little inevitable. there's a huge rift happening between the casual desktop users and the .. less so.
2021-07-05 02:35:19	matsaman	Voxel: if they aren't skeptical then it's not even an issue
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2021-07-05 02:35:57	spyroboy	I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been an Audacity clone yet.
2021-07-05 02:36:20	spyroboy	frankly I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened immediately after the original announcement/shock.
2021-07-05 02:36:26	ilinux-os-user	No need to fork anything. Just create a new App and you are done!
2021-07-05 02:36:35	spyroboy	I feel like if this was 10 years ago it would've happened already.
2021-07-05 02:36:53	Voxel	I mean, how are you sure that they won't allow that and include these binaries into the handling?
2021-07-05 02:37:22	<--	^elf^ (~elf@user/elf) has quit (Quit: Yes have some.)
2021-07-05 02:37:23	spyroboy	hm?
2021-07-05 02:37:40	Voxel	The package distribution maintainers
2021-07-05 02:38:04	spyroboy	I'm a little confused. what do you mean 'these binaries'?
2021-07-05 02:38:05	Kyv	Audacity was always kind of like a free software golden boy.
2021-07-05 02:38:33	spyroboy	just fork the audacity project, rename it, and package that.
2021-07-05 02:38:36	Kyv	It took maniacs to fork GIMP because they thought it was offensive to crippled people.
2021-07-05 02:38:41	ilinux-os-user	Linux Open Source Community can have an alternative App ready in 1-3 months. So don't worry. Audacity is already dead.
2021-07-05 02:38:58	<--	jetchisel (jetchisel@user/jetchisel) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-05 02:39:02	spyroboy	yeah but GIMP isn't being threatened by user surveillance. there's a different cost in play.
2021-07-05 02:39:18	Kyv	That is only a recent development though.
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2021-07-05 02:39:40	spyroboy	forking a codebase and a community over a name that is theoretically offensive is different from forking a codebase over a privacy concern.
2021-07-05 02:39:43	<--	CrustY_ (~crusty@2001:a61:5147:8101:c361:ceb6:c056:c5e6) has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-07-05 02:39:51	Kyv	So that is to say, it is only as of late there has ever been reason.
2021-07-05 02:39:51	spyroboy	people will more readily rally together over the latter case.
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2021-07-05 02:40:57	Kyv	I knew it wouldn't be the last time we'd be hearing about Audacity when the telemetry thing first became in issue.
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2021-07-05 02:41:18	ZombieChicken	Complaining that the GNU Image Manipulation Program is poorly named is, at best, a crapshoot by SJWs that need something to be angry over. Privacy issues are a measurable assault
2021-07-05 02:41:21	Kyv	And not just because I thought they were ignorant to how much it rubs people the wrong way.
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2021-07-05 02:42:09	Sauvin	It's confirmed that Audacity has built-in telemtry?
2021-07-05 02:42:14	Helmholtz1	where can I find explanations for these ? https://i.imgur.com/GBEtWrm.png
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2021-07-05 02:42:19	spyroboy	I feel like this keeps happening in various forms. I don't think the freenode aquisition is all that different from the audacity aquisition. I can't remmeber which one it was but there was a certain browser extension that was bought recently too and turned rogue post-aquisition.
2021-07-05 02:42:42	spyroboy	I'm sure it's always happened but this seems to be happening more regularly now.
2021-07-05 02:42:42	Kyv	Sauvin: Well this had been circulating over the past couple of days: https://www.audacityteam.org/about/desktop-privacy-notice/
2021-07-05 02:42:53	matsaman	spyroboy: yup, it happens when your governing body is undefined, or for sale
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2021-07-05 02:43:14	spyroboy	Helmholtz1, search google for "what do the columns mean in htop"
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2021-07-05 02:43:42	matsaman	or, you could say, if your domain name has too much influence, vs your actual code
2021-07-05 02:43:49	ZombieChicken	spyroboy: Adblock?
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2021-07-05 02:44:01	matsaman	even though, as we can see with freenode->libera, that's not even really a thing, ultimately
2021-07-05 02:44:01	spyroboy	ZombieChicken, was it adblock? trying to remember..
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2021-07-05 02:44:31	ZombieChicken	spyroboy: Bought by an ad company or something and started to let ads through by default that weren't especially invasive or something?
2021-07-05 02:44:32	matsaman	and that's all this company owns of audacity, the name and a domain
2021-07-05 02:44:35	spyroboy	ZombieChicken, 'The Great Suspender'
2021-07-05 02:44:46	matsaman	further proof that free software matters a lot
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2021-07-05 02:45:30	spyroboy	02:43:42   matsaman >> or, you could say, if your domain name has too much influence, vs your actual code
2021-07-05 02:45:32	Kyv	The idea that a software audio editor is at all collecting user data "necessary for law enforcement" is tickling.
2021-07-05 02:45:44	spyroboy	fortunately GPL protects from this actually mattering.
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2021-07-05 02:46:27	matsaman	yup
2021-07-05 02:46:30	matsaman	it's a lovely thing
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2021-07-05 02:46:53	matsaman	I don't rely on poorly licensed or closed source software, so I literally do not worry about these types of things
2021-07-05 02:47:05	matsaman	and haven't for more than a decade
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2021-07-05 02:47:21	Voxel	Thank you very much for the info! ^^
2021-07-05 02:47:30	Sauvin	You guys have done me a personal service. Audacity is not currently installed on this computer, and now it never will be.
2021-07-05 02:47:38	Voxel	What happens? Freenode. Now Audacity?
2021-07-05 02:47:45	Sauvin	Except, perhaps, in a virtual machine with zero net access.
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2021-07-05 02:48:15	matsaman	if it's a real thing, audacity will be forked, the end
2021-07-05 02:48:31	spyroboy	I think the only 'dirty software' that I somewhat regularly use is Steam and video games. that said, I've mostly switched to playing on console for simplicity.
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2021-07-05 02:48:55	Helmholtz1	what to do when linux ram is 100%?
2021-07-05 02:48:59	Helmholtz1	system is stuck
2021-07-05 02:48:59	Kyv	matsaman: if what is a real thing?
2021-07-05 02:49:12	Voxel	What? Steam?
2021-07-05 02:49:33	matsaman	Kyv: some additional undesired code
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2021-07-05 02:49:49	matsaman	Helmholtz1: if it's stuck? You can wait or reboot
2021-07-05 02:49:59	matsaman	Helmholtz1: you can try ssh
2021-07-05 02:50:07	spyroboy	Helmholtz1, you wait until the kernel is able to kill the offending process (spoilers: it often doesn't kill the offending process). if you have swap, it might take a long time.
2021-07-05 02:50:08	Voxel	spyroboy how the heck Steam?
2021-07-05 02:50:14	Helmholtz1	matsaman, Raise the elephant wouldn't work?
2021-07-05 02:50:19	Helmholtz1	it only works for restart
2021-07-05 02:50:25	Voxel	Valorant with its kernel anti-cheat probably, but not Steam as far as I know
2021-07-05 02:50:32	matsaman	ew, mnemonic
2021-07-05 02:50:33	spyroboy	Voxel, what's your question specifically?
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2021-07-05 02:50:52	spyroboy	Steam is closed source software.
2021-07-05 02:50:53	Voxel	My question is. What do you mean by "dirty-software" and Steam directly.
2021-07-05 02:51:02	Helmholtz1	spyroboy, why kernel doesn't kill?
2021-07-05 02:51:09	Voxel	Oh. So closed means "dirty"?
2021-07-05 02:51:16	Helmholtz1	I mean windows is not like this
2021-07-05 02:51:33	spyroboy	Helmholtz1, sometimes it takes a long time for the kernel to be able to allocate the resources in that situation to actually execute the code that attempts to kill the offending process.
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2021-07-05 02:52:03	spyroboy	if something consumes all of your memory, it's unable to run the code, since that requires memory, to kill the bad program.
2021-07-05 02:52:18	spyroboy	so it has to wait.
2021-07-05 02:52:31	Voxel	> I'd also like to note that from what I gather, the new ToS are in violation of the GPL and maybe also European law so they might be in trouble.
2021-07-05 02:52:33	Voxel	From: https://twitter.com/HappyFrogGames/status/1411794537966616577
2021-07-05 02:52:38	spyroboy	if you use a swap disk, it takes longer since swap disks are often slow.
2021-07-05 02:52:50	<--	ShahNaim (~shahnaim@user/shahnaim) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-05 02:53:07	matsaman	doesn't matter what they do, they already broke trust
2021-07-05 02:53:09	talismanick	My fonts are way too spaced out in X apps (xmaxima, X11 emacs, etc) and st (haven't tried other terminal emulators yet), but not GTK3 apps
2021-07-05 02:53:10	matsaman	it will be forked
2021-07-05 02:53:18	spyroboy	Voxel, I use fedora so basically anything that isn't in the fedora repos I consider to be 'dirty' to a relative degree. fedora only allows open source, gpl compatible software in the repository.
2021-07-05 02:53:32	talismanick	It's as if there was a space between every letter
2021-07-05 02:53:34	Voxel	I see. I like that.
2021-07-05 02:53:45	Voxel	Although, I love Steam too :D
2021-07-05 02:53:48	spyroboy	there are some open source, debatably GPL compatible licensed software like openzfs that I don't consider dirty.
2021-07-05 02:54:02	spyroboy	but if it's closed source, it's 100% dirty in my definition.
2021-07-05 02:54:20	spyroboy	if it's open sourced but poorly licensed, I'm a lot less concerned.
2021-07-05 02:54:24	Kyv	Steam is closed source, therefore there is much you don't know about it's relative dirtiness.
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2021-07-05 02:54:34	Voxel	Makes sense as far as the developer doesn't declare their true actions in their ToS
2021-07-05 02:54:35	Kyv	It does have a privacy policy and such though.
2021-07-05 02:54:45	schillingklaus	steam is non-portable crap
2021-07-05 02:54:45	spyroboy	Kyv, that itself is dirty. it should be inspectable.
2021-07-05 02:54:54	Kyv	I agree.
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2021-07-05 02:55:07	Voxel	Crap? Holy smokes. Why?
2021-07-05 02:55:09	spyroboy	dirty does not mean malicious.
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2021-07-05 02:55:15	Kyv	I wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt on that.
2021-07-05 02:55:31	Voxel	Check this out: https://store.steampowered.com/steamos/buildyourown
2021-07-05 02:55:41	talismanick	Tarsnap is the opposite of malicious and is source-available, but is still technically closed source
2021-07-05 02:55:45	Voxel	I mean, you probably don't know all features of Steam
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2021-07-05 02:56:03	talismanick	closed/open source is a poor distinction compared to free/libre software vs proprietary
2021-07-05 02:56:07	schillingklaus	steam does not work with musl, for example
2021-07-05 02:56:11	spyroboy	as long as you're able to inspect the source and compile from source and use your own binary, I am content.
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2021-07-05 02:56:38	talismanick	spyroboy: So, your requirement then is source availability
2021-07-05 02:56:39	spyroboy	there are a lot of processes that hide source, prevent you from compiling source, or prevent you from using your own binary. those processes make me discontent.
2021-07-05 02:56:44	talismanick	which is not the same thing as being open source
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2021-07-05 02:56:57	spyroboy	talismanick, from a security prospective, yes.
2021-07-05 02:57:15	spyroboy	security prospects are more practical for me.
2021-07-05 02:57:25	Kyv	At this point you don't need to beg them for source code. It is cut & dry that Steam is spyware.
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2021-07-05 02:57:36	Voxel	> Hello @Uramekus, realistically this isn't going to happen because it would break compatibility with the video drivers on all major distros, and almost all native game builds already on Steam, which makes this request a non-starter.
2021-07-05 02:57:38	spyroboy	ideologically, sure, I'd prefer that everything is actually open source and ideally MIT or BSD or GPL licensed.
2021-07-05 02:57:42	talismanick	spyroboy: Okay, but there's a set defintion of open source
2021-07-05 02:57:44	Kyv	Whether you square yourself with that and use the service anyway is up to the person.
2021-07-05 02:57:46	Voxel	schillingklaus from: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/5263
2021-07-05 02:57:51	talismanick	although, like I said, the name is misleading
2021-07-05 02:57:57	spyroboy	talismanick, apologies.
2021-07-05 02:58:09	spyroboy	I mean source availability generally.
2021-07-05 02:58:16	Voxel	schillingklaus Steam is not just its software, but the products it provides.
2021-07-05 02:58:20	Voxel	to customers
2021-07-05 02:58:26	talismanick	Also, software can be source available (or even open source), but still be spyware
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2021-07-05 02:58:48	spyroboy	not a concern. as long as it is source available I am happy with that.
2021-07-05 02:58:48	talismanick	see: Audacity's data collection debacle after change in ownership, but not in license
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2021-07-05 02:59:09	spyroboy	if I read the source and discover it is spyware, it's my choice to not use it.
2021-07-05 02:59:13	talismanick	spyroboy: If your concern is security, though, spyware is spyware
2021-07-05 02:59:36	schillingklaus	it is spy-roboy for a reason
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2021-07-05 02:59:50	spyroboy	talismanick, yes but I can read the source.
2021-07-05 03:00:05	Kyv	You only have people conflating "open source software" with free software to blame.
2021-07-05 03:00:08	spyroboy	if it's spyware, I will not use it.
2021-07-05 03:00:13	talismanick	spyroboy: Do you actually read the source? I wouldn't start at the sourc if I wanted to find out if something was spyware or not. I would run it in a sandbox and log outbound connection over lots of test cases
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2021-07-05 03:00:29	spyroboy	of course nobody starts at source level.
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2021-07-05 03:00:46	talismanick	Life is too short to read over the entire Linux kernel source and everything else atop it just to make sure that privacy is secured
2021-07-05 03:00:49	spyroboy	and of course the proper course of action is to sandbox or restrict your application.
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2021-07-05 03:01:11	spyroboy	but the point is that source is required to confirm precise business logic of an application.
2021-07-05 03:01:23	talismanick	So then why do you need the source in the first place? Black box testing should tell you whether it's spyware or not in all the test cases you set up.
2021-07-05 03:01:26	spyroboy	secondly, the point is that I don't need to read it.
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2021-07-05 03:01:38	spyroboy	there are plenty of people auditing source code all the time.
2021-07-05 03:01:44	talismanick	Not true
2021-07-05 03:01:44	spyroboy	people who are paid to. or people who are curious.
2021-07-05 03:01:49	talismanick	Look at Heartbleed
2021-07-05 03:01:59	talismanick	and people have lots of the same biases and cognitive blind spots
2021-07-05 03:02:00	spyroboy	I'm not sure what your argument is.
2021-07-05 03:02:09	talismanick	I'm not sure what yours is
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2021-07-05 03:02:15	spyroboy	then let's stop
2021-07-05 03:02:27	Voxel	I'd love to be paid for source code audition...
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2021-07-05 03:02:52	Helmholtz1	spyroboy, My swap is 1GB and a swapfile
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2021-07-05 03:03:05	Helmholtz1	still when it hits 100%, I have to SysReg reset
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2021-07-05 03:06:49	schillingklaus	I have survived for a long time without swapping
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2021-07-05 03:07:11	Voxel	> so they now not only have a likely lawsuit from the people who enforce GPL stuff on their tails in the near future, but maybe also the European government. (source: https://twitter.com/HappyFrogGames/status/1411795502761484290)
2021-07-05 03:07:36	Helmholtz1	Voxel, Is this about cobot?
2021-07-05 03:07:39	-->	P4ddyF (~PaddyF@user/yogoyo) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 03:07:46	Voxel	This is about Audacity
2021-07-05 03:08:11	loganlee	what happened to audacity?
2021-07-05 03:08:13	Voxel	This one: https://twitter.com/KrashHash/status/1411725491581587457
2021-07-05 03:08:18	Voxel	Or: https://fosspost.org/audacity-is-now-a-spyware/
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2021-07-05 03:08:31	 *	P4ddyF checks FOSS News
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2021-07-05 03:10:37	P4ddyF	i love that. "is now a possible spyware" and 2 lines later: SUBSCRIBE TO MY NEWSLETTER
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2021-07-05 03:12:06	Helmholtz1	Someone eventually forks it. What's the deal?
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2021-07-05 03:12:26	Voxel	Like above said: - An Audacity clone will emerge soon and Audacity will be lost into oblivion...
2021-07-05 03:12:32	Voxel	- Linux Open Source Community can have an alternative App ready in 1-3 months. So don't worry. Audacity is already dead...
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2021-07-05 03:13:05	Helmholtz1	Would the same noise happen if the buyer was in US?
2021-07-05 03:13:24	Voxel	Why not?
2021-07-05 03:13:34	Voxel	It's the data
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2021-07-05 03:14:34	P4ddyF	also interesting: the link to that article does not contain "possible"
2021-07-05 03:14:55	Helmholtz1	Voxel, I don't know. People over at YN: HackerNews were commenting that the buyer is in Russia
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2021-07-05 03:15:08	Voxel	Russia...
2021-07-05 03:15:32	-->	mort (~mort@188.166.114.29) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 03:15:35	P4ddyF	opener to slightly racist views on the world?
2021-07-05 03:15:41	Helmholtz1	I mean other FOSS apps that collect user info probably have the same terms but report to their home countries
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2021-07-05 03:15:51	Helmholtz1	VSCode/Chromium
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2021-07-05 03:16:14	Voxel	Helmholtz1 do you have a link
2021-07-05 03:16:29	P4ddyF	a good link not just a link
2021-07-05 03:16:41	Voxel	it may be a link to the link :D
2021-07-05 03:16:47	Helmholtz1	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27728784
2021-07-05 03:16:59	P4ddyF	see
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2021-07-05 03:18:16	Helmholtz1	lol just grep for russia in this : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27727150
2021-07-05 03:18:46	Voxel	> Moskovsky pr-t,40-1301, Kaliningrad, Russia, 236004
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2021-07-05 03:19:11	raccoon_dog	This is relevant, if anyone hasn't linked it yet: https://github.com/cookiengineer/audacity
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2021-07-05 03:19:55	Kyv	Yes it was included in the link I had provided earlier.
2021-07-05 03:20:05	Helmholtz1	raccoon_dog, Has emojis in commit messages became a thing
2021-07-05 03:20:05	Kyv	Regarding their desktop privacy notice.
2021-07-05 03:20:13	Voxel	Nice
2021-07-05 03:20:19	raccoon_dog	Helmholtz1: Apparently.
2021-07-05 03:20:26	raccoon_dog	Kyv: Ah, I see.
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2021-07-05 03:22:28	Kyv	Just the address of their registered office, though. Nothing very salacious itself.
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2021-07-05 03:23:29	topoi	Let's say it's unfavoured users can see other users uid via "ls /home"; how to accomplish this?
2021-07-05 03:23:34	topoi	Why do I get some permission error with absolute but not relative paths, when some parent directory doesn't have the execution bit set? (E.g. I tried to overcome above with "chmod 750 /home")
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2021-07-05 03:26:11	loganlee	unfavoured?
2021-07-05 03:26:19	topoi	Is the latter because "ls ${parentdir_without_user_execution_bit/${userdirectory}" has to traverse to the parent directory first?
2021-07-05 03:27:04	topoi	loganlee: s/unfavoured/unfavored/
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2021-07-05 03:27:58	hassoon	what the heck..keyboard stopped working out of nowhere
2021-07-05 03:28:02	hassoon	it's only working in the terminal (konsole), and the web browser (google chrome)
2021-07-05 03:28:05	hassoon	it's not working in the application launcher search field
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2021-07-05 03:28:23	Voxel	is it only launcher's issue?
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2021-07-05 03:28:47	hassoon	Voxel: not working in yakuake too
2021-07-05 03:29:09	rudi_s	topoi: You cannot really hide uids/user names on a Unix system.
2021-07-05 03:29:36	rudi_s	You can do chmod 0751 /home which will remove the read but not the executable bit (permitting cd but not ls) but it won't hide much if the user can use getent passwd to get a list of users.
2021-07-05 03:30:01	rudi_s	(If you use LDAP or similar you could prevent users from querying all users but then they can just iterate by user id to enumerate all existing users.)
2021-07-05 03:30:22	Voxel	hassoon considering Yakuake an app from the launcher's drop-down menu, these may be related
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2021-07-05 03:33:16	topoi	Thanks, rudi_s.
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2021-07-05 03:33:53	Voxel	Perhaps, it's possible to implement a request limit, topoi
2021-07-05 03:33:55	topoi	rudi_s: Is my guess on the latter question valid?
2021-07-05 03:34:26	Voxel	limitation*
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2021-07-05 03:35:21	rudi_s	topoi: Yes, all permission checks start from / and without the x-bit you cannot visit a subdirectory.
2021-07-05 03:35:26	topoi	Could you elaborate what you mean, Voxel?
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2021-07-05 03:36:11	loganlee	topoi: you can't visit a directory if chmod -x directory
2021-07-05 03:36:35	ano	Helmholtz: there is no independent alternatives to ff/chrom with sane w3 support, that's why people use such a spyware and most distros ship it and nobody(?) cares^Wcomplains, similar situation for floss audio editors, probably if fork won't get enough power there won't be non-spyware floss audio editor
2021-07-05 03:36:37	Voxel	Some mentioned an iteration, I mentioned a limitation so the iteration would be also controlled.
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2021-07-05 03:37:00	Voxel	Someone*
2021-07-05 03:37:44	Voxel	But this would be exotic, I believe.
2021-07-05 03:38:04	hassoon	Voxel: yakuake is related to the application launcher ? how come? both are seperate applications afaik
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2021-07-05 03:38:15	Voxel	https://apps.kde.org/yakuake/
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2021-07-05 03:38:20	Voxel	> Yakuake is a drop-down terminal emulator based on KDE Konsole technology.
2021-07-05 03:38:39	hassoon	Voxel: yep, how does that relate to the application launcher ?
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2021-07-05 03:38:49	hassoon	it's a terminal emulator
2021-07-05 03:38:56	Voxel	That's why I assumed it inherits the launcher's input
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2021-07-05 03:39:21	hassoon	Voxel: nah konsole itself, when ran, just gets keyboard input fine
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2021-07-05 03:41:34	hassoon	Voxel: wait.. it has something to do with ibus, i have that ibus thingy running around, as stated here https://itectec.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-keyboard-not-working-properly-in-kde-after-upgrade-to-kubuntu-16-10/
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2021-07-05 03:46:22	Voxel	Hm. I can't really suggest right now, I'm sorry/
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2021-07-05 03:47:39	Voxel	hassoon, perhaps #systemd
2021-07-05 03:47:54	hassoon	Voxel: nope
2021-07-05 03:48:03	hassoon	Voxel: removed ibus, all good now
2021-07-05 03:48:14	Voxel	I see
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2021-07-05 03:51:53	shantaram	why can't i pipe curl into mpv
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2021-07-05 03:52:25	shantaram	OH
2021-07-05 03:52:29	shantaram	i did a dum
2021-07-05 03:52:31	shantaram	never mind
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2021-07-05 04:07:51	jim	doo wah diddy diddy dum diddy doo?
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2021-07-05 04:09:10	iLinux-OS-User	Daaaaaaa!
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2021-07-05 04:10:50	Voxel	Found some question regarding ProtonDB. Sounds like: Has there been any work done to resolve an issue with (proton) wine 5.8+ not installing dotnet48?
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2021-07-05 04:17:35	backleet	I find that redhat.com has really quality linux tutorials
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2021-07-05 04:21:25	loganlee	ssh tunneling was cool... i was forced to learn it
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2021-07-05 04:22:18	hassoon	forced ?
2021-07-05 04:22:20	schillingklaus	redhat.com is a systemd enforcer, so their tuutorials are probably of decreased value for non-systemd people
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2021-07-05 04:23:07	autopsy	I need juicessh toolorial
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2021-07-05 04:24:08	Voxel	Yeah! The remote execution one!
2021-07-05 04:24:25	autopsy	trap chicken,house.() drag $my_cigarette;
2021-07-05 04:25:06	autopsy	Kerrighed does process migration
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2021-07-05 05:14:37	backleet	TIL you can specify OS on tldr pages, for example tldr -o windows dir
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2021-07-05 05:22:04	Kyv	upvote
2021-07-05 05:22:06	Kyv	subscribed
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2021-07-05 05:27:32	HumbleGuy	which is better, SUSE or openSUSE?
2021-07-05 05:27:47	HumbleGuy	and what are the differences
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2021-07-05 05:28:35	MrElendig	depends on use case
2021-07-05 05:28:43	schillingklaus	suse enterprise edition contains more proprietary warez
2021-07-05 05:28:55	MrElendig	the former gets you paid support, the later don't
2021-07-05 05:29:27	MrElendig	pretty sure the suse homepage have a comparison
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2021-07-05 05:41:55	Skaface	ive just set up a diskless alpine linux system, loads the whole OS into ram then you pull the usb stick
2021-07-05 05:42:00	Skaface	its so snappy to use
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2021-07-05 05:48:19	schillingklaus	of course, the ram  must be big enough to hold all the os
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2021-07-05 05:52:58	HumbleGuy	Skaface, how much ram do you have?
2021-07-05 05:54:55	pinemach	Hi, I'm experiencing a frustrating problem right now with Kubuntu 21.04. On Friday, I had the laptop connected to an external display. Over the weekend, I was using it at another desk without the external display. On Monday, I connected it again to the same external display. But this time, the display receives no signal. Oddly, the display is
2021-07-05 05:54:56	pinemach	mirrored onto the external display if I keep it connected and restart the laptop, just for the duration of entering the FDE password. But then after that it just doesn't send a signal, and the display doesn't appear in the display settings GUI. I didn't update any software or packages over the weekend. It was working, and then it didn't anymore.
2021-07-05 05:54:56	pinemach	I've tried restarting the laptop with the display initially connected, or connecting it after logging in, with no luck. What could be going on here?
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2021-07-05 05:56:35	Skaface	HumbleGuy: 8gb, ive got the OS down to 800Mb, its just DWM and firefox and a few utilities, its all i really use though.. if i want something like gimp ill install it temporarily
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2021-07-05 05:57:40	HumbleGuy	how do you use firefox with 800mb? i too use dwm. At idle i use 120mb, with firefox 1gb+
2021-07-05 05:58:07	iLinux-OS-User	Maybe he is using Virtual Memory (Swap)
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2021-07-05 05:58:45	Skaface	800mb is the size of the OS
2021-07-05 05:58:51	Skaface	i have 8Gb ram
2021-07-05 05:58:58	HumbleGuy	oh
2021-07-05 05:59:00	HumbleGuy	my bad
2021-07-05 05:59:02	Skaface	so around 7gb of ram to use as ram ;)
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2021-07-05 06:05:32	Kyv	pinemach: there is no frumpy GUI util to set these display preferences for you in Kubuntu?
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2021-07-05 06:08:34	gry	pinemach: start "arandr", does it have this option?
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2021-07-05 06:09:03	gry	pinemach: under 'Outputs' menu
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2021-07-05 06:10:34	Kyv	otherwise it will be xrandr
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2021-07-05 06:12:19	Kyv	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xrandr
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2021-07-05 06:14:06	Kyv	alse see: multihead
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2021-07-05 06:19:38	killall	does anyone knows how to display android battery when using gsconnect
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2021-07-05 06:23:07	mitsukage	hi anyone here
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2021-07-05 06:23:30	pinemach	@gry well, arandr showed me the HDMI output and allowed me to set it as active. The display flashed on for a second to inform me that it still had no input
2021-07-05 06:24:54	pinemach	System display configuration still doesn't show the external display at all
2021-07-05 06:25:06	pinemach	In the system settings GUI, I mean
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2021-07-05 06:27:45	gry	pinemach: tried to unplug the cable and re-plug again?
2021-07-05 06:27:48	gry	on both ends
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2021-07-05 06:29:01	pinemach	Yes, on both ends. Tried it again to be sure. No change. When disconnecting and reconnecting on the display side, the display wakes up to tell me it has no input signal, then it goes back to sleep
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2021-07-05 06:29:18	pinemach	It also does this when I click "Apply" in arandr
2021-07-05 06:29:25	--	morrigan is now known as m0rr1gan
2021-07-05 06:29:39	pinemach	(With the HDMI output to secondary display having "Active' checked)
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2021-07-05 06:32:05	pinemach	Ok here we go, I've got the external display showing stuff now
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2021-07-05 06:33:04	pinemach	Somehow it became marked as disabled in KDE's system settings? I got the display to show up in the system settings GUI after messing with arandr, then checked the "Enabled" setting there. Why the hell did it become disabled since the last time I was using the external display?
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2021-07-05 06:37:09	fling	Why is gnu discussed here and not in #systemd?
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2021-07-05 06:38:00	selckin	why there
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2021-07-05 06:38:32	schillingklaus	there is #gnu
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2021-07-05 06:40:21	schillingklaus	but systemd is only used by a subset of gnu/linux users, so the others would be excluded
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2021-07-05 06:46:14	Kyv	I hear more about it now than when it was on my system.
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2021-07-05 06:47:02	phogg	fling: pretty much everything is discussed here
2021-07-05 06:47:37	lopid	systemd is the opposite of gnu
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2021-07-05 06:49:18	fling	schillingklaus: linux is only used by a subset of gnu users :D
2021-07-05 06:49:38	schillingklaus	it is quite difficult to use systemd on a non-gnu linux distro, though; as systemd relies on glibc
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2021-07-05 06:50:26	fling	Will gentoo stop being gnu if I build it with musl instead of glibc?
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2021-07-05 06:51:33	phogg	fling: only if you stop using coreutils and bash, too
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2021-07-05 06:51:50	phogg	GNU does a lot of things besides libc
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2021-07-05 06:52:49	schillingklaus	gentoo's packaging/portage uses bash. ditching bash as a login shell is straightforward, of course
2021-07-05 06:53:11	hexnewbie	Or if you insist on calling it Wayland/Linux instead, and think Guhnuhoo is tiny.
2021-07-05 06:53:38	schillingklaus	coreutils may be easily replaced with busybox, toybox,...
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2021-07-05 06:55:27	schillingklaus	displacing bash as bin/sh might be critical in some systems, but it is easy even on debian
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2021-07-05 06:56:52	schillingklaus	I boycott wayland
2021-07-05 06:57:10	Kyv	not even Ubuntu uses bash as /bin/sh
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2021-07-05 06:57:50	hexnewbie	Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) were the one to switch *away* from /bin/bash as /bin/sh, I'm not even sure if someone followed.
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2021-07-05 06:58:44	hexnewbie	CentOS Stream uses /bin/bash as sh
2021-07-05 06:59:02	lopid	void uses dash, alpine busybox sh
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2021-07-05 06:59:29	fling	phogg: is this documented anywhere?
2021-07-05 06:59:42	hexnewbie	I rarely check what my /bin/sh is. I remember having /bin/sh scripts not working after I agreed to Debian's switch to dash ;p
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2021-07-05 07:00:10	fling	looks like they were bash scripts
2021-07-05 07:00:20	fling	with bashisms and gnuisms :D
2021-07-05 07:00:48	Kyv	that is the fault of the script writers
2021-07-05 07:01:05	fling	Right, should use the proper shebang
2021-07-05 07:01:07	Kyv	by itself, it had to be done to clean up that laziness
2021-07-05 07:01:41	hexnewbie	Fault only if you, for some reason, decide to make your life harder by insisting on POSIX sh syntax only.
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2021-07-05 07:02:23	Kyv	if you want to write bash scripts, dont assume bash is /bin/sh
2021-07-05 07:02:25	Kyv	its that simple.
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2021-07-05 07:02:33	Kyv	if they're your scripts, its your problem.
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2021-07-05 07:05:13	phogg	fling: there is no formal documentation of the requirements to call something "GNU/Linux" because it's just a social convention. You could say "if you use any code from the GNU project it counts" or you could say it only counts if you use *only* code from the GNU project, or anywhere in between.
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2021-07-05 07:06:36	Kyv	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DashAsBinSh
2021-07-05 07:06:52	Kyv	doesnt seem at the time, Ubuntu was willing to forego the benefits of this to accomodate lazy script writers.
2021-07-05 07:07:11	phogg	it's not really laziness
2021-07-05 07:07:17	schillingklaus	macos used some gnu code for quite a while, before ggpl 3.0 forced them to reconsider
2021-07-05 07:07:35	Kyv	phogg: what is it?
2021-07-05 07:07:38	phogg	for years if you just did "something" and use #!/bin/sh it worked and you probably didn't think too deeply about whether that 'something' was strictly POSIX or not.
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2021-07-05 07:08:13	phogg	and then one day they said "you are going to need to re-check your code" for things that work in bash-in-sh-mode but not in a real POSIX sh
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2021-07-05 07:08:29	phogg	even then it's not quite good enough to check with dash, because dash is also a superset of POSIX sh (just a smaller one)
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2021-07-05 07:09:38	PaulFertser	https://github.com/koalaman/shellcheck should help
2021-07-05 07:10:00	phogg	now it will, I believe it post-dates the start of the Debian bash-to-dash effort.
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2021-07-05 07:10:46	phogg	first commit to the shellcheck repo was in November of 2012
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2021-07-05 07:12:38	phogg	and per the Debian wiki the DashAsBinSh page was started in July 2007, and the first version notes that the effort was already in progress
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2021-07-05 07:31:50	Helmholtz1	How to **enable** nm-applet notifications?
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2021-07-05 08:09:59	Helmholtz2	phogg, u here?
2021-07-05 08:10:01	Helmholtz2	https://github.com/dkogan/feedgnuplot
2021-07-05 08:10:19	Helmholtz2	This seems to be pipe plotter we were looking for
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2021-07-05 08:29:28	backleet	irchighway ebooks are great
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2021-07-05 08:36:53	Tajan	hello, every time I boot to desktop I need to run commands as admin in order to activate some applications. how can I avoid that?
2021-07-05 08:37:04	Tajan	for ex. virtual machine
2021-07-05 08:37:10	Tajan	or virsh
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2021-07-05 08:39:26	DLange	put them into the autostart method your desktop uses
2021-07-05 08:39:47	RayTracer	Tajan: you can put the virtual machines into autostart mode, if that was part of the question
2021-07-05 08:40:09	DLange	typically an autostart folder or a configurable list, depends on your desktop environment
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2021-07-05 08:41:12	peetaur	Tajan: is the problem that you know about autostart but not how to do it as admin?
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2021-07-05 08:42:19	peetaur	if so, put those commands in a shell script owned by the admin, and make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ that says you can run that script as that admin without password, and then your autostart stuff (maybe a script) runs  eg.  sudo /path/to/thatscript
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2021-07-05 08:48:21	backleet	does anyone know lightweight alternative to calibre for converting epub,mobi,pdf etc
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2021-07-05 08:53:19	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-07-05 08:56:11	Kyv	hey BluesKaj
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2021-07-05 08:56:29	Kyv	backleet: no but calibre is truly an abomination
2021-07-05 08:56:33	BluesKaj	hey Kyv
2021-07-05 08:56:43	schillingklaus	absolutely
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2021-07-05 09:07:58	Kyv	its comedic how bad it is. like that thing it has that's kind of like an rss reader but awful to use
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2021-07-05 09:08:24	Kyv	that serves up all the feeds in ebook form and every one needs its own index
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2021-07-05 09:08:53	palindrome	hello, where can I get the source for gnu patch and diff tools, please?
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2021-07-05 09:10:58	Kyv	https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/patch/
2021-07-05 09:11:12	Kyv	I think you can see where this is going
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2021-07-05 09:11:25	backleet	Kyv: because of bloat?
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2021-07-05 09:11:55	Kyv	backleet: thats most of it
2021-07-05 09:11:55	palindrome	thanks so much Kyv
2021-07-05 09:11:56	backleet	I haven't used other features of it, but format conversion, which worked pretty well except it's huge package size
2021-07-05 09:12:07	palindrome	I suppose I can find diff at the same place...
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2021-07-05 09:12:30	Kyv	if you only use the converter it probably isnt that noticeable, I remember a few of the tools being separated out
2021-07-05 09:12:43	Kyv	but even that was slow and janky
2021-07-05 09:12:48	backleet	I see
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2021-07-05 09:13:31	Kyv	I used it mainly for adding metadata to ebooks
2021-07-05 09:13:44	Kyv	and it insisted on structuring all the files out in this ridiculous way
2021-07-05 09:14:28	backleet	regardless I am thankful for the free tool lol
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2021-07-05 09:16:26	Kyv	It tries to do too much without doing any of it particularly well
2021-07-05 09:16:29	palindrome	I was thinking on trying to finding an entry point in the diff tool to call it through my code without having to fork() it. But I wonder if I would need to have my code under gnu license as well...
2021-07-05 09:16:32	Kyv	but I guess if you need that, you need that
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2021-07-05 09:16:52	backleet	yeah...
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2021-07-05 09:23:31	ignapk	um, when I do adb shell "cat /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/boot" > boot1.img I get different partition image then when adb shell; cat /dev/.../boot > boot2.img; exit; adb pull boot2.img
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2021-07-05 09:23:45	ignapk	Why could that be?
2021-07-05 09:23:50	Gurkenglas	How do I list the files that a command line command accesses during its execution?
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2021-07-05 09:24:53	CPUOne	I think it's -v
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2021-07-05 09:25:19	CPUOne	Gurkenglas: what command are you running
2021-07-05 09:25:54	Gurkenglas	CPUOne, a java command generated by an IDE that wraps around the screen 6 times.
2021-07-05 09:26:14	Gurkenglas	i want to know where it keeps the sourcecode it's actually running, but it doesn't seem to be mine
2021-07-05 09:26:18	Gurkenglas	*because
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2021-07-05 09:27:16	ignapk	Regarding my question - nevermind, must have made a typo somewhere
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2021-07-05 09:28:46	curdlesnoot	Gurkenglas: if you think it's using open(2) or openat(2), something like: strace -f -eopenat
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2021-07-05 10:00:44	Sos	Hi! what distro is my best bet to build a cross-distro static binary?
2021-07-05 10:00:59	Sos	source release is out of questions for me
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2021-07-05 10:01:32	Helmholtz1	I'm on xubuntu+i3wm. I wokeup my laptop from suspend and those gsettings got reset. Any ideas
2021-07-05 10:01:47	peetaur	Sos: probably Ubuntu because it has zfs modules well supported, so you'll have lots of zetabytes of space for your static binaries :)
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2021-07-05 10:02:09	schillingklaus	static binaries with glibs and lots of dependencies are a bad thing
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2021-07-05 10:02:21	peetaur	or.... any distro? whichever has the libs you want to build against. But static is a bad reason for more than just space...what happens when a security bug is patched in the distro's lib, but you didn't build against that....
2021-07-05 10:03:00	Sos	i'll be maintaining the app so it'll be on me to update
2021-07-05 10:03:05	peetaur	a better solution (not saying it's available today) is to have a cross platform package manager that will have the same libs on any distro, and then use that
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2021-07-05 10:03:30	Sos	also, it's a game, so i doubt it will me deployed onto mission critical environments
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2021-07-05 10:08:35	Samian	hi
2021-07-05 10:09:00	Samian	Is there an official name for the terminal window in ubuntu?  Is it "terminal" ? or "command line" ?
2021-07-05 10:09:31	Samian	you know, where you do cd, ls, cat somefile.txt,  history | grep someSearchString
2021-07-05 10:09:59	Samian	"command line interface" ?
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2021-07-05 10:10:49	PaulFertser	GNOME Terminal Emulator probably?
2021-07-05 10:11:35	Nosrep	ye
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2021-07-05 10:11:49	Samian	cool
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2021-07-05 10:12:19	Samian	console, CLI, and terminal are the three terms I've seen
2021-07-05 10:12:44	jason1235	Samian: xterm is cool ,but it wont be long. Wayland will replace all X software but better ones. Wayland, GTK, and QT are best in Linux.
2021-07-05 10:13:19	Samian	okay..
2021-07-05 10:13:23	schillingklaus	I boycott wayland rigorously at anyt cost, and if it means stopping using computers altogether
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2021-07-05 10:13:26	Samian	not sure what that all means
2021-07-05 10:13:40	Samian	GTK and QT are gui toolkits
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2021-07-05 10:13:54	Samian	libraries, frameworks, whatever you want to call it
2021-07-05 10:14:24	peetaur	schillingklaus: if Wayland was actually ready and apps all supported it, what's bad about it?
2021-07-05 10:14:26	Samian	is there a way to see which cpu a program is running on using a terinal command?
2021-07-05 10:14:30	Samian	I know the program's PID
2021-07-05 10:14:33	PaulFertser	Samian: Terminal Emulator is just that, emulates a terminal. CLI is provided by many different programs, and you can interact with them by using real or emulated terminals.
2021-07-05 10:15:03	Nosrep	i would use wayland but muh software support
2021-07-05 10:15:16	schillingklaus	wayland is anti-unixish
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2021-07-05 10:16:19	PaulFertser	Samian: console is a more generic word, and terminal is one kind of it.
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2021-07-05 10:17:30	peetaur	schillingklaus: that's not very specific
2021-07-05 10:17:41	peetaur	what's unixish about Xorg even?
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2021-07-05 10:17:57	CPUOne	what's wrong with wayland
2021-07-05 10:18:14	peetaur	seems like Xorg is not unixish, but just a thing running on unix in the most simplistic way that ended up broken and complicated
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2021-07-05 10:18:43	akik	xorg is so f'n broken i can't understand how i've been able to use it for 20 years
2021-07-05 10:18:44	CPUOne	is it Xorg or X11?
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2021-07-05 10:18:56	akik	x11 is the protocol
2021-07-05 10:19:02	CPUOne	Xorg is the foundation right?
2021-07-05 10:19:12	schillingklaus	in wayland, one program, the compositor, must provide everything that would be achieved on x11 by several independent yet somehow co-operative programs
2021-07-05 10:19:46	akik	first release in 2004 so only 17 years ago
2021-07-05 10:19:56	akik	x.org is the implementation
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2021-07-05 10:20:40	schillingklaus	before, there was XFree86, and X consortium even earlier. the principle is still the same
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2021-07-05 10:25:14	FlorianBad	If I have a script that does various things but at some point prints a lot of output to STDOUT, and I'm in screen over ssh, could that script hang for 6 seconds if my own network is slow? Is that script dependent upon the network that runs the terminal?
2021-07-05 10:26:03	paulcarroty	X11 has very serious security issue: one app can access another app windows
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2021-07-05 10:27:14	schillingklaus	i do want apps to be able to access other apps' windows
2021-07-05 10:27:15	-->	blaklistd (~blaklistd@user/blaklistd) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 10:27:31	paulcarroty	main reason why Tails switched to Wayland
2021-07-05 10:28:06	Tajan	peetaur, some programs do not get started when I launch them. I need to run i.e. "service xyz start"
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2021-07-05 10:28:13	Tajan	as admin, naturally
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2021-07-05 10:28:30	Tajan	VM was just one case, but it is not only that
2021-07-05 10:28:45	paulcarroty	it depends from the app, naturally
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2021-07-05 10:30:43	akk	FlorianBad: I suspect but can't prove that there would be buffering that would prevent a hang unless it was really a LOT of output.
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2021-07-05 10:31:35	FlorianBad	akk: ok, all I'm trying to understand is whether it is POSSIBLE to have the script limited by that
2021-07-05 10:31:55	FlorianBad	(because I've been debugging an issue and I can't find any other explanation)
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2021-07-05 10:33:09	akk	FlorianBad: I think it is possible, if there's so much output that it overflows all buffering.
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2021-07-05 10:33:54	BuildTheRobots	afternoon all: SSH question if you don't mind. `~.` does a nice job of killing off a stuck ssh session, but what happens if i've got them nested? if I ssh A->B and then B->C, is there any way of killing the B->C session as `~.` kills off A->B
2021-07-05 10:33:59	akk	FlorianBad: You could probably test that, by writing a script that spews output forever, ssh and run the script and hit ctrl-s in your terminal.
2021-07-05 10:34:00	FlorianBad	ok, that's great! Thanks. I spent 2 hours trying to debug this only to realize it hung for some stupid reason that won't happen in real case :)  lol
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2021-07-05 10:34:48	FlorianBad	akk: yeah but it only happened once in a couple hundred executions ;)  So all I needed to do was check my own sanity
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2021-07-05 10:35:22	FlorianBad	I guess I could also make it print to /dev/null and it should never happen
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2021-07-05 10:43:38	plugd	BuildTheRobots: get A to send an escape character to B.
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2021-07-05 10:44:03	Dagmar	BuildTheRobots: Define different escape characters for each session
2021-07-05 10:44:21	BuildTheRobots	aah, good call. I'll go back to google to work out how to do that. Thank you :)
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2021-07-05 10:56:09	jabberwock	Is there a cleaner way to get the first 3 octets of an interface's IP in bash?
2021-07-05 10:56:12	jabberwock	I have `ip_first_3=$(ifconfig usb0 | grep "inet " | tr -s ' ' | cut -d' ' -f3 | cut -d'.' -f1-3)`
2021-07-05 10:56:23	jabberwock	I know there's a cleaner way, I just don't know which :)
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2021-07-05 10:56:43	 *	jabberwock needs to only start AirVPN when a GSM interface is both up AND has a DHCP lease rom the GSM router
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2021-07-05 11:00:28	peetaur	jabberwock: interface=usb0; ip -j a l | jq -r ".[] | select(.ifname == \"${interface}\") | .addr_info[].local"
2021-07-05 11:00:52	jabberwock	whoah, that's neat looking. thanks! I'm testing it out
2021-07-05 11:01:08	jabberwock	oh, it needs jq
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2021-07-05 11:01:17	peetaur	ip -o a l | awk -v interface="$interface" '$2 == interface {print $4}'      (less clean...makes assumptions about field order and whatever)
2021-07-05 11:01:17	jabberwock	soz, this needs to be as pure bash/base-linux as possible
2021-07-05 11:01:27	peetaur	and I'm getting the whole IP here...split out your octets after
2021-07-05 11:01:55	jabberwock	that's super useful and will let me use ipv6 too. Thank you! <3
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2021-07-05 11:17:46	Guest57	hi
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2021-07-05 11:22:48	Guest57	Huamns
2021-07-05 11:22:51	Guest57	Humans
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2021-07-05 11:23:59	ODIRF	Hello
2021-07-05 11:24:11	Dagmar	Yes because surely nothing can go wrong from willfully adding json to a shell script
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2021-07-05 11:25:07	Guest57	*Total nerd voice* according to my calculations *Pushed glasses up on nose, checks perfectly organized pocket protector* The Shellcode can be obfuscated and hidden within the shell script
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2021-07-05 11:27:35	Guest57	what are some more good channels on libera chat?
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2021-07-05 11:27:53	mlu	Guest57: this one
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2021-07-05 11:28:24	Guest57	What more channels are good?
2021-07-05 11:28:30	Guest57	#ubuntu is good too
2021-07-05 11:28:32	schillingklaus	the channel between UK and France/Belgium
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2021-07-05 11:29:38	thad_the_man	Anyone familiar with WSL? Is there a waty to set up my system so that I can either bring an installation up in WSL and dual boot into the same installation?
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2021-07-05 11:30:40	curdlesnoot	I don't think that's a controversial use of jq, provided the $interface injection be removed and, instead, the value be properly parameterised. at the same time, the ip -o format seems stable enough that it's perhaps not exceptionally useful for the problem at hand.
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2021-07-05 11:33:37	Dagmar	Without the introduction of jq, the output is entirely parseable with awk.
2021-07-05 11:33:41	BuildTheRobots	@plugd @Dagmar : turns out I was totally overthinking this `~~.` just kills the second session as `~~` just sends the escape command :)
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2021-07-05 11:34:18	curdlesnoot	and with the shell, itself, for that matter.
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2021-07-05 11:34:47	Dagmar	The time to use jq is when you have no other choice
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2021-07-05 11:45:50	peetaur	Dagmar: but what would you tell awk to make it reliable? is what I did reliable? I suspect not
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2021-07-05 11:46:16	Dagmar	THe output of ip is supposed to be stable and parseable
2021-07-05 11:47:09	Dagmar	Translating the data into a different format _only to translate it to another format_ is madness
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2021-07-05 11:48:53	Dagmar	If you really want to bare-bones it, there are always interfaces in proc you can read this stuff from.
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2021-07-05 11:50:21	peetaur	but going by field number like I did probably isn't reliable....maybe just look for "inet"?    eg. look at  ip -o a l | column -t     and you can see "scope" can be in $5 or $7
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2021-07-05 11:50:51	peetaur	so how would you awk that? I can't think of anything short and nice
2021-07-05 11:50:55	f4t4l_3rr0r	Will a Windowz Edge uBlock Origins backup work on Linux Firefox uBlock extension ?
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2021-07-05 11:51:09	peetaur	I could validate an assumption... $3=="inet" ...but not handle when it's false
2021-07-05 11:51:28	phoenixes	if the extensions handle backup the same way, it should
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2021-07-05 11:51:43	f4t4l_3rr0r	Alright thanks !
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2021-07-05 11:51:46	peetaur	(not short and nice...   { for(n = 0; n< NF; n++) { if($n == "inet") { ......... not short or nice)
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2021-07-05 11:55:06	curdlesnoot	you mean, the exported settings? should do.
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2021-07-05 11:55:44	f4t4l_3rr0r	Yeah
2021-07-05 11:56:04	f4t4l_3rr0r	uBlock, Stylish, Tampermonkey, & F.B. Purity […]
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2021-07-05 12:12:01	pinemach	I'm new to KDE. I've been having weird behavior with my laptop's external display. One thing that is a bit of an annoyance is that after I turn my monitor off and then on again, or after disconnecting and reconnecting, the window positions are almost all reset to the laptop's display instead of the external display. (Apparently all maximized
2021-07-05 12:12:02	pinemach	windows are reset, and windows not at full size are not reset.) Even if I haven't interacted with the system at all, just cycled the power on the display. I don't know if the taskbar slowly flickering on and off on the laptop display when the external display is connected is related - it seems to take a moment for the desktop to decide where the
2021-07-05 12:12:02	pinemach	taskbar belongs, and the maximized windows are all being resized as the taskbar appears and disappears. What can I do to stop having all my windows always sent to the laptop display even when I just want to turn the external display off?
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2021-07-05 12:20:42	paulcarroty	heh, youtube seriously forcing av1. got it second time via mpv+youtube-dl this evening
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2021-07-05 12:22:35	Kyv	That is how you do it.
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2021-07-05 12:22:42	Kyv	Video in browsers was a mistake.
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2021-07-05 12:26:45	sem	If I'm formatting a portable HDD for use with windows and linux computers, do I have to choose ntfs or fat32, or is exFat read/writable by linux these days? Or are there other better options
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2021-07-05 12:28:38	hassoon	sem: ext4 partition for linux, and ntfs partition for windows
2021-07-05 12:28:40	CPUOne	exFAT is both readable and writable by linux. It would be a good choice for a portable HDD that can be read by both OS's
2021-07-05 12:28:57	paulcarroty	exfat is universal, yep
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2021-07-05 12:29:29	sem	I think I will go with exfat then; i've done split partitions before and kept needing to access the other partition from the other system
2021-07-05 12:29:35	sem	thanks!
2021-07-05 12:29:56	phoenixes	linux can read/write to ntfs with proper tools
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2021-07-05 12:30:20	CPUOne	^^
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2021-07-05 12:30:25	sem	iirc exFat is a more modern FS than ntfs?
2021-07-05 12:30:30	paulcarroty	exfat now industrial default for >32GB flash drives & another portables
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2021-07-05 12:35:46	pinemach	Well, I sort of solved my problem with the interestingly named "Protect Porn Privacy" KWin script which moves all windows to the primary screen when a new display is found. Remembering which display each window was on would be ideal, but better to move them all to the big external display in the center of my desk than move them all back to the
2021-07-05 12:35:46	pinemach	smaller laptop screen, I guess
2021-07-05 12:35:51	peetaur	sem: exfat is more for portable things like usb sticks where the other stuff NTFS has just causes more media wear, permission errors and whatever
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2021-07-05 12:45:13	TJ-	I've just had the USB port hosting the Bluetooth controller die with -71 (EPROTO) - I thought there was a way to reset a port rather like how PCI devices can be removed and rescanned but cannot recall the method; can anyone remember how?
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2021-07-05 12:52:22	akik	pinemach: does that script allow you to save windows positions?
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2021-07-05 13:27:35	ayao	help needed concerning wine
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2021-07-05 13:28:29	P4ddyF	ayao: whats up?
2021-07-05 13:28:51	P4ddyF	when you describe the problem its easier for others to join you and help
2021-07-05 13:29:02	ayao	i try install winetricks but it's absent in repository
2021-07-05 13:29:12	P4ddyF	which distro?
2021-07-05 13:29:14	ayao	in devuan repository
2021-07-05 13:29:36	schillingklaus	maybe wine crap requires systemd?
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2021-07-05 13:30:36	ayao	no i used it on openrc
2021-07-05 13:31:05	MrElendig	why would wine depend on systemd?
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2021-07-05 13:31:35	akik	it doesn't
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2021-07-05 13:31:50	phoenixes	wine doesn't require systemd
2021-07-05 13:31:57	phoenixes	i use a non-systemd distro and it works fine
2021-07-05 13:32:32	akik	ayao: winetricks is here: https://github.com/Winetricks/winetricks/blob/master/src/winetricks
2021-07-05 13:32:58	ayao	is there a deb file?
2021-07-05 13:33:07	Kvothe	Hello, i've been using rdesktop to forward an usb_to_com over to a windows machine however i'm wondering how to set the bitrate over this port
2021-07-05 13:33:18	phoenixes	the github url says src ayao, so im guessing you need to compile it yourself
2021-07-05 13:33:20	akik	ayao: no it's a shell script
2021-07-05 13:33:35	akik	ready-to-use, chmod +x
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2021-07-05 13:36:54	ayao	people say it's here deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main contrib
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2021-07-05 13:38:27	phoenixes	deb is how they package it
2021-07-05 13:39:10	Kyv	https://www.devuan.org/os/packages
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2021-07-05 13:44:06	ayao	 can you tell me how to create prefixes?
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2021-07-05 13:44:21	ayao	wine just installed wine and wine64 and created .wine\drive_c
2021-07-05 13:44:41	ayao	is it 64bit prefix?
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2021-07-05 13:45:05	MrElendig	there are a few wrappers that makes wine prefixes much less of a pain
2021-07-05 13:45:11	MrElendig	other than that, read the wine docs
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2021-07-05 13:45:43	ayao	don't know anything about wrapping and no time for docs
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2021-07-05 13:50:22	curdlesnoot	it responds to the WINEPREFIX environment variable, as noted by the man page. if you end up with drive_c/windows/syswow64, it's "win64" but that can be changed by WINEARCH.
2021-07-05 13:50:41	curdlesnoot	what you can't do, however, is repurpose an existing prefix from one arch to another.
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2021-07-05 13:52:01	ayao	as far as i understand from now reading a doc, you can use one default prefix for running both 64 and 32bit programs right?
2021-07-05 13:52:27	phoenixes	if wine does what windows does
2021-07-05 13:52:40	phoenixes	then you should be able to
2021-07-05 13:52:59	ayao	so there is no need to create more prefixes, in my prefix i saw program files folder and program files (x86) folder
2021-07-05 13:53:02	curdlesnoot	you can generally run 32-bit programs in a 64-bit prefix (that's what the WoW layer was for in Windows). you can't take an _existing_ prefix and switch it between win32 and win64. if in doubt, the (probable) default of win64 is probably OK.
2021-07-05 13:53:18	phoenixes	ayao then you're good to go
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2021-07-05 13:53:33	iLinux-OS-User	If you want to run Windows Apps just install Windows in VirtualBox. Wine won't do it satisfactory.
2021-07-05 13:53:38	jason1235	Dagmar: the idea of this code is that there are lot of people to help the code, and parsing needs programmers for that.
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2021-07-05 13:54:17	ayao	I run airwave and plugins without gui work but with gui freeze daw, do i need install something like visual c++ packs to wine?
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2021-07-05 14:18:04	swl	How can I list all of my installed GTK themes? For font's there's fc-list, is there anything like that for themes?
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2021-07-05 14:24:01	Kyv	pipe installed packages to grep
2021-07-05 14:24:44	CPUOne	iLinux-OS-User: WINE gaming works fine for me.
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2021-07-05 14:27:31	swl	Kyv: I know what I installed, I want to find the name gtk calls it by. `pkgs.lounge-gtk-theme` is certantly not it's name.
2021-07-05 14:27:56	swl	*its
2021-07-05 14:28:20	akik	ayecee: here's how you can set the wine prefixes:
2021-07-05 14:28:22	akik	oops
2021-07-05 14:28:32	akik	that guy left
2021-07-05 14:28:34	akik	export WINEARCH=win32
2021-07-05 14:28:34	akik	export WINEPREFIX=${HOME}/.wine32
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2021-07-05 14:28:47	akik	then winecfg populates it
2021-07-05 14:28:50	CPUOne	that person is still here
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2021-07-05 14:30:28	akik	ayao caramba?
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2021-07-05 14:33:41	mattf	caramba
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2021-07-05 14:44:51	Kyv	swl: oh that is good you know. look in /usr/share/themes or use lxappearance then.
2021-07-05 14:45:09	Kyv	or an example gtkrc
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2021-07-05 14:50:42	swl	Kyv: I'm using nixos so there's no /usr tree, but I did a `find / -type -name themes -exec ls {} + | less` and found some likly hits
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2021-07-05 14:58:40	inkbottle[m]	At one point I had `path/to/.git` `mtime` to "16:39", with the command that caused it being "16:21" according to `history` command. Initially, I really couldn't explain what had changed at "16:39". I'm really puzzled.
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2021-07-05 15:11:59	inkbottle[m]	`libfam0`, `libgamin0`, `inotify`?
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2021-07-05 15:30:30	autopsy	Howdy grocks
2021-07-05 15:30:33	-->	signalhunter (~boom@user/signalhunter) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 15:30:40	autopsy	And flexs
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2021-07-05 15:31:01	autopsy	And standard gents or int or charlies
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2021-07-05 15:31:15	autopsy	Stdlib.h
2021-07-05 15:31:23	autopsy	Stdio.h
2021-07-05 15:31:29	autopsy	Time.h
2021-07-05 15:31:37	autopsy	Gettimeent
2021-07-05 15:31:39	CPUOne	g'day mate
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2021-07-05 15:32:12	autopsy	Ten four i got 23 comin on my 9 and 15 sabot rounds to fly
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2021-07-05 15:32:21	autopsy	Gold
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2021-07-05 15:33:17	autopsy	Phosphorous and depleted uranium explosives
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2021-07-05 15:33:49	Sauvin	autopsy, kindly go slobber and vocalise elsewhere.
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2021-07-05 15:34:23	lacroix	evening
2021-07-05 15:34:33	autopsy	This sucks sand castles sese
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2021-07-05 15:34:36	autopsy	Ok
2021-07-05 15:34:41	autopsy	Bye now
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2021-07-05 15:37:49	dag	after `cat /dev/zero > /dev/sdb` how can I verify that the device is indeed wiped?
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2021-07-05 15:39:35	beltwaybob	why use zeros and not something random
2021-07-05 15:39:41	curdlesnoot	dag: `sync; od -a < /dev/sdb` should show an elided series of nul's, with no deviations throughout.
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2021-07-05 15:40:42	beltwaybob	But that isnt how you would "wipe" a hard drive in any meaningful way.
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2021-07-05 15:44:41	autopsy	Shred -n 12 /dev/sdb
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2021-07-05 15:45:18	autopsy	shred - n 1 /dev/sdc
2021-07-05 15:45:27	msiism	What happened to dd(1)?
2021-07-05 15:45:38	curdlesnoot	it's an sdd, use ata secure erase.
2021-07-05 15:45:44	autopsy	Shred and tryncate -- size 1024
2021-07-05 15:45:52	dag	there is so much different information on the internet on how to wipe a drive. me confused
2021-07-05 15:46:04	autopsy	Truncate
2021-07-05 15:46:16	dag	this particular device is a 2.5' 80GB with magnetic disks
2021-07-05 15:46:30	dag	u have it connected via a sata-usb adapter
2021-07-05 15:46:34	autopsy	This is thoughtless just stop with the cinfusion now
2021-07-05 15:46:47	beltwaybob	dag: how much is the data worth
2021-07-05 15:47:00	beltwaybob	That's probably the first sort of question
2021-07-05 15:47:05	msiism	dag: Do you intent to still use this disk?
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2021-07-05 15:47:20	dag	beltwaybob: not much. it's my work on it with a few passwords in plaintext
2021-07-05 15:47:22	beltwaybob	you could just burn it.
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2021-07-05 15:47:26	autopsy	This is fukkin stupid stoppit please
2021-07-05 15:47:39	beltwaybob	I think autopsy gave a good answer
2021-07-05 15:47:41	beltwaybob	you dont just use dd
2021-07-05 15:47:46	autopsy	Pkeasestoppit
2021-07-05 15:47:50	beltwaybob	but if it is worth a lot of money you could just burn it
2021-07-05 15:47:56	beltwaybob	or put it in the tooth fairy box
2021-07-05 15:48:34	msiism	autopsy: Why is shred better in this case?
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2021-07-05 15:48:54	autopsy	Bang it on tha damn floor the discs and armature will come loise including the integrated drive electronics cards chips to fucking pieces
2021-07-05 15:49:05	autopsy	Shred actually
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2021-07-05 15:49:23	phoenixes	the best way to wipe a drive
2021-07-05 15:49:23	autopsy	Takes a rabdom seed and writes through
2021-07-05 15:49:42	phoenixes	is just write it all over with random seed as said, 0 it entirely, or just grab a hammer and destroy it to bits
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2021-07-05 15:49:55	beltwaybob	that is 3 ways at least
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2021-07-05 15:50:02	phoenixes	also you can set fire
2021-07-05 15:50:04	phoenixes	explode it
2021-07-05 15:50:09	curdlesnoot	msiism: it doesn't matter all that much for modern HDDs. the combination of high densities and PRML have put paid to easy recovery through magnetic microscopy. some people will argue otherwise, though. besides, you can't touch the re-allocated sectors using shred, dd or anything else (secure erase ... maybe).
2021-07-05 15:50:12	autopsy	Hammer now way hydrochloric acid bath 32%
2021-07-05 15:50:13	dag	people also suggest a destructive badblocks test: `badblocks -wsv /dev/sdd`
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2021-07-05 15:50:36	curdlesnoot	that aside, if the drive isn't to be re-used, disposal is obviously best.
2021-07-05 15:50:36	beltwaybob	hard drives are so cheap
2021-07-05 15:50:48	msiism	autopsy: Why is Shred better than, say, using dd with /dev/urandom as its input?
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2021-07-05 15:52:04	autopsy	Shred overwrites as -n5 times over with random seed each 1024 byte block until its reached just look at a damn test file you shred dude
2021-07-05 15:52:14	beltwaybob	well
2021-07-05 15:52:21	beltwaybob	im now reading that you dont really need n passes anymore
2021-07-05 15:52:27	beltwaybob	depending on the age of the drive and the higher the density
2021-07-05 15:52:33	beltwaybob	but really your data is prob not worth much
2021-07-05 15:52:50	autopsy	Sha256sum / bin/ bash >test.file ; shred test.file ; vi test.file
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2021-07-05 15:52:57	autopsy	Msiism
2021-07-05 15:52:57	phogg	beltwaybob: depends on the drive type
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2021-07-05 15:53:14	beltwaybob	phogg: ya, but in practice nobody cares about this dude's data
2021-07-05 15:53:28	phoenixes	beltwaybob: just because hdd are cheap doesn't give you the right to simply dump more hardware into the landfill
2021-07-05 15:53:35	phogg	beltwaybob: that is not for me to say, I can only provide parameters and let the user decide
2021-07-05 15:53:41	autopsy	This is DUMB STOP TALKING ABT IT
2021-07-05 15:53:44	curdlesnoot	at 80GB, it's not going to be a PMR drive so it likely doesn't matter either way. and again, none of these methods touch re-allocated sectors.
2021-07-05 15:53:57	autopsy	777666
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2021-07-05 15:54:34	curdlesnoot	er, sectors marked as dead, I mean. not much you can do about that short of disposal.
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2021-07-05 15:55:08	phogg	dag: who are you trying to prevent from being able to read the drive? If it's not a matter of life and death *one pass with zero* is enough. If there are millions of dollars at stake maybe one pass with urandom. If life hangs in the balance *destroy the disk*.
2021-07-05 15:56:07	autopsy	This is fukin stooooooopid.
2021-07-05 15:56:12	phoenixes	no question is dumb
2021-07-05 15:56:17	msiism	autopsy: Can you stop the nonsense?
2021-07-05 15:56:21	dag	here it is: https://www.disctech.com/Toshiba-MK8034GSX-SATA-Hard-Drive
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2021-07-05 15:56:34	msiism	autopsy: It's beginning to get out of hand.
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2021-07-05 15:57:56	autopsy	Yes
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2021-07-05 15:58:42	autopsy	It is out of hand land band of the hand 36 chambers fusion of the 5 elements or was it 6 i dun no
2021-07-05 15:59:22	bparker	wut
2021-07-05 15:59:29	beltwaybob	phoenixes: I have every right to dump as much as I pay for into the landfill.
2021-07-05 15:59:34	phogg	too much of the sauce?
2021-07-05 15:59:39	beltwaybob	But I think hard drives I take to electronics recycling
2021-07-05 15:59:44	sauce	never
2021-07-05 15:59:52	beltwaybob	but I dont do that
2021-07-05 16:00:02	curdlesnoot	oops, I meant "SMR", not "PMR". but anyway.
2021-07-05 16:00:07	phogg	beltwaybob: there's a difference between what you can get away with and what you have a right to
2021-07-05 16:00:21	beltwaybob	well, it is also a right to discard as many items as one pays to discard
2021-07-05 16:00:26	beltwaybob	or in this case simply takes to the recycler for free
2021-07-05 16:00:29	beltwaybob	its not wrong
2021-07-05 16:00:43	phogg	beltwaybob: certainly not, and having a right is not the same as it not being wrong
2021-07-05 16:00:47	autopsy	Just kill it
2021-07-05 16:00:51	beltwaybob	its not seriously objectioniable if I buy hard drives then just recycle them
2021-07-05 16:00:57	beltwaybob	never using them, only recycling.
2021-07-05 16:00:58	autopsy	Kill IT DAMN KILL IT
2021-07-05 16:01:19	lacroix	autopsy. come on.
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2021-07-05 16:02:25	lacroix	autopsy, like really, your contribution has been constructive lately - really, don't ruin it :/
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2021-07-05 16:04:29	autopsy	Shred truncate dd discard systemctl enable fstrim.timer cat dev zero shred truncare again then dd and throw it nolan ryan against a concrete brucj wall
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2021-07-05 16:04:46	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-07-05 16:04:54	autopsy	Dkne
2021-07-05 16:04:55	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@ip70-190-125-84.ph.ph.cox.net] by lacroix
2021-07-05 16:04:57	beltwaybob	There is a discussion of this topic in Applied Cryptography
2021-07-05 16:04:59	curdlesnoot	oof.
2021-07-05 16:05:06	beltwaybob	I know some ppl dont like that book
2021-07-05 16:05:08	curdlesnoot	I was going to say, you forgot ata secure erase and blkdiscard!
2021-07-05 16:05:09	phogg	beltwaybob: recycling?
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2021-07-05 16:05:35	beltwaybob	how to eliminate the data from a disk
2021-07-05 16:05:52	beltwaybob	and it basically suggests to weigh the value of the data vs. the cost of the media being shredded instead of replaced
2021-07-05 16:06:01	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-05 16:06:03	beltwaybob	instead of reused
2021-07-05 16:06:04	phogg	I stand by my conclusion: it's hard enough that it's not financially viable, until the data is valuable enough.
2021-07-05 16:06:10	beltwaybob	exactly
2021-07-05 16:06:20	<--	iJens (~ijens@109.120.212.141) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 16:06:32	beltwaybob	but rather than look at it thta way, you cant know what is valuable enough to someone else, you can look at your media replacement cost, because why would you wipe it other thna to reuse it or to sell it
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2021-07-05 16:07:04	phogg	People who have data of incalculable value (like, evidence of crimes they'll got to jail for, or a list of foreign agents that will then be killed) need to leave zero chance of recovery. Those people should reduce the disk to tiny pieces.
2021-07-05 16:07:27	phogg	For everyone else it's unlikely a well-funded actor wants to spend the money on your data.
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2021-07-05 16:13:02	pedrocr	has anyone seen an issue where enter/backspace/space randomly stop working on a laptop keyboard, and work again a little while later?
2021-07-05 16:13:13	pedrocr	I'm seeing that on a Lenovo T14s Gen1 AMD
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2021-07-05 16:18:01	--	o is now known as niko
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2021-07-05 16:18:34	Kyv	phogg: you mean a NOC list?
2021-07-05 16:18:38	Kyv	I gave it to Job
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2021-07-05 16:19:05	phogg	Kyv: ?
2021-07-05 16:19:22	 *	Kyv cues Mission Impossible theme
2021-07-05 16:19:34	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-07-05 16:19:35	--	Mode #linux [-bo *!*launch@user/r3m$##fix-your-connection litharge] by litharge
2021-07-05 16:20:03	phogg	it's been a while since I've seen any Mission Impossible, so I will just assume you are making a plot reference
2021-07-05 16:20:27	 *	kfrench plots against phogg.
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2021-07-05 16:20:31	Kyv	yes the NOC list is the list of agents that will then be killed.
2021-07-05 16:20:49	 *	Kyv close up shot of burning fuse
2021-07-05 16:21:23	kfrench	Kyv: All of the wires are yellow!  What do I do?
2021-07-05 16:21:38	beltwaybob	urine for yellow wires
2021-07-05 16:21:44	 *	Kyv hands kfrench a blue wire
2021-07-05 16:22:00	 *	kfrench connects all of the yellow wires together with the blue wire.
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2021-07-05 16:22:20	phogg	make a pretty pattern, that'll confuse the bomb
2021-07-05 16:22:43	 *	kfrench explodes.
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2021-07-05 16:23:21	Kyv	nothing confuses a bomb like primary colors
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2021-07-05 16:24:39	msiism	Ah, Gnome, I love their attitude: Deprecate bugzilla.gnome.org in favor of gitlab.gnome.org and throw out all open bug reports that are older than $time.
2021-07-05 16:24:58	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 16:25:16	phogg	msiism: they auto-close old reports anyway if they don't get bumped, and sometimes they also lock them to prevent comments from interested users (I'm sorry, to prevent "spam")
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2021-07-05 16:25:44	msiism	:)
2021-07-05 16:26:10	-->	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 16:26:18	msiism	I mean, this is open-source: You're not entitled to anything. ;)
2021-07-05 16:26:30	phogg	msiism: to be fair I believe there was an attempt to import open bugs into the gitlab instance
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2021-07-05 16:26:45	msiism	I see.
2021-07-05 16:27:04	phogg	No one is entitled, but it's amazing that the developers claim to do things in the interests of the mass of users, but repeatedly refuse to listen to actual user feedback.
2021-07-05 16:27:22	msiism	Right.
2021-07-05 16:27:27	phogg	A small number of noisy users who actually ask for something are trumped by a *theory* that some large number of users, if asked, would disagree.
2021-07-05 16:28:18	msiism	(By the way, GitLab regularly makes me bite the air infront of my monitor, sometimes other things that get in the way. Just saying…)
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2021-07-05 16:28:47	phogg	gitlab beats the alternatives, that being github or even less public stuff
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2021-07-05 16:29:23	msiism	Yeah, I'm not saying there are any good alternatives to what it does.
2021-07-05 16:29:45	Kyv	I would prefer they drop the facade and tell everyone to go pound sand, if that is the general atmosphere.
2021-07-05 16:29:57	msiism	phogg: Maybe Fossil. :)
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2021-07-05 16:31:31	msiism	Actually, SourceHut might be a viable alternative. It can be self-hosted, I hear. At least that's intended.
2021-07-05 16:31:46	--	FioridaMan is now known as FloridaMan
2021-07-05 16:32:06	msiism	I mean, Bugzilla wasn't exactly beautiful.
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2021-07-05 16:35:07	beltwaybob	sounds like a lot of fun
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2021-07-05 16:38:57	rascul	gitea is good stuff
2021-07-05 16:39:12	rascul	but doesn't quite have all the features
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2021-07-05 16:41:48	Gustavo6046	so
2021-07-05 16:41:50	Gustavo6046	nvm
2021-07-05 16:42:02	rascul	you're a so nvm
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2021-07-05 16:43:38	Kyv	he is
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2021-07-05 17:09:47	curdlesnoot	kurahaupo: #redirect factoidwithoutbang
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2021-07-05 18:05:10	--	Mode #linux [+o litharge] by ChanServ
2021-07-05 18:05:11	--	Mode #linux [-bo *!*@ip70-190-125-84.ph.ph.cox.net litharge] by litharge
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2021-07-05 18:07:27	akik	rascul: do you use gitea?
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2021-07-05 18:08:38	akik	i have the problem with it that because it uses sshd a lot for the connections, some connections (quite a lot) are left in a state=closing
2021-07-05 18:08:53	akik	and once they reach some limit, the service stops responding
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2021-07-05 18:09:57	akik	it's some kind of a problem with systemd-logind
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2021-07-05 18:12:38	akik	now i'm cleaning those sessions every 10 minutes
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2021-07-05 18:24:20	rascul	akik i do
2021-07-05 18:24:34	rascul	i haven't seen that problem
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2021-07-05 18:25:04	rascul	i run it on alpine and it's low usage
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2021-07-05 18:26:21	 *	esselfe lower rascul's usage
2021-07-05 18:28:59	 *	rascul puts on roller skates and limbos under his usage
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2021-07-05 18:30:41	Kyv	pump the jam
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2021-07-05 18:32:43	greatcoof	what does 64 actually mean
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2021-07-05 18:33:01	greatcoof	s/64/64-bit
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2021-07-05 18:33:18	greatcoof	(i know what the number 64 means)
2021-07-05 18:33:46	KungFuJesus	Hello, I seem to have an issue with FreeBSD's NFSv3 server and Linux's v3 client.  For whatever reason, the server seems to go deaf to RPC requests for a bit and I have to wait what I think is the full 600 seconds for a timeout and retry.  This is the error output from the kernel when rpcdebug is on: https://pastebin.com/rCv2ZTri
2021-07-05 18:34:03	rob`	greatcoof: it refers to the maximum integer size that a computer's CPU can handle without extra processing.
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2021-07-05 18:34:05	KungFuJesus	the client is directly connected to the server over a 40gbps CR4 link, with 9000 byte MTUs
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2021-07-05 18:34:41	greatcoof	rob`: so machine code exicuted per clock cycle?
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2021-07-05 18:35:06	KungFuJesus	any ideas for what I should do next to debug this?  Interface doesn't appear to be reporting any errors and the machine's CPU load seems mostly idle
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2021-07-05 18:35:29	greatcoof	s/so/so more
2021-07-05 18:35:36	rob`	greatcoof: Something like that. I don't think instruction sets get that big, it's mostly about the size of the data.
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2021-07-05 18:36:08	KungFuJesus	or is there maybe a better linux networking / file systems related channel I can ask this in?
2021-07-05 18:36:13	rob`	For instance, a 32-bit computer counts Unix time in "seconds since 1970". That counter runs out in 2030-something. Any 32-bit unix computers around then will overflow that counter.
2021-07-05 18:36:49	rob`	It's a Problem. :)
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2021-07-05 18:37:05	greatcoof	rob`: so i can have bigger variable in sql !!! (2037 actually)
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2021-07-05 18:37:54	rob`	greatcoof: Sure, but that's where the "extra processing" part comes in. SQL has BIGINTs which are 64-bit which will work in 32-bit OSes, it's just got a layer to abstract away the extra math. I think.
2021-07-05 18:38:09	rascul	so we have until 2030 to destroy all 32bit computers
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2021-07-05 18:38:53	curdlesnoot	greatcoof: a typical metric is that of how wide the CPU's general purpose registers are.
2021-07-05 18:38:59	rob`	yeah, basically. Not all of them. But it's y2k all over again, kinda.
2021-07-05 18:39:26	rob`	2038 is close enough that we're already running into the need to project dates that far into the future pretty regularly. Your average mortgage, for instance.
2021-07-05 18:39:57	rob`	So it won't happen all at once.
2021-07-05 18:40:11	akik	microsoft is trying to artificially shorten pc lifetimes with win11
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2021-07-05 18:40:16	rascul	i will no longer be maxing out my credit cards for the end of the world
2021-07-05 18:40:20	curdlesnoot	greatcoof: taking x86 as an example, see https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2002/03/an-introduction-to-64-bit-computing-and-x86-64/2/, for instance.
2021-07-05 18:40:22	rascul	i've learned that lesson a couple times already
2021-07-05 18:40:24	akik	2038 is nothing!
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2021-07-05 18:41:50	rascul	two thousand thirty eight nothings
2021-07-05 18:41:53	greatcoof	curdlesnoot: yes! all resourses i found basicly say youre a consoomer dont worry about it
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2021-07-05 18:44:36	curdlesnoot	greatcoof: of course, marketing departments have been known to take liberties with the definition. the Atari Jaguar is a memorable example of such; apparently two 32-bit processors made it "64-bit".
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2021-07-05 18:45:18	beltwaybob	im 128 bit
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2021-07-05 18:49:01	greatcoof	curdlesnoot: yes if i intall windows on my 32 prossor it will be 64 bit
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2021-07-05 18:50:06	beltwaybob	agreed
2021-07-05 18:50:11	beltwaybob	processor upgrade
2021-07-05 18:50:27	greatcoof	oh and btw i got old prossesor that support 64 bit but when i try 64 bit os it functions a little worse than my microwave
2021-07-05 18:50:58	curdlesnoot	greatcoof: if we're talking Intel, it wasn't that great until the Nehalemn microarchitecture came along.
2021-07-05 18:51:13	greatcoof	amd athelon
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2021-07-05 18:56:29	greatcoof	sorry got disconnected
2021-07-05 18:56:34	peetaur	greatcoof: your microwave sounds pretty awesome
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2021-07-05 18:57:03	beltwaybob	peer to peer microwave
2021-07-05 18:57:07	greatcoof	yep that's how i wipe all my data
2021-07-05 18:57:28	greatcoof	(that i dont want anymore )
2021-07-05 18:57:38	beltwaybob	how do you wipe data that you want to keep?
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2021-07-05 18:58:25	greatcoof	teach you kid rm -rf
2021-07-05 18:59:12	greatcoof	*your
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2021-07-05 19:00:23	greatcoof	any any idea what it does that
2021-07-05 19:00:30	greatcoof	its not just normal lag
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2021-07-05 19:00:57	greatcoof	i press an icon ...screen turns off for 2  seconds ...then it opens
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2021-07-05 19:01:10	beltwaybob	maybe you need to reinstall fvwm
2021-07-05 19:01:23	greatcoof	fvwm?
2021-07-05 19:01:35	rascul	blackbox or bust
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2021-07-05 19:01:52	greatcoof	this was a mint liveboot btw
2021-07-05 19:02:00	rascul	it's not anymore?
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2021-07-05 19:02:33	greatcoof	i cant use a computer like this i have standards
2021-07-05 19:02:43	greatcoof	they are very low but they are there
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2021-07-05 19:03:56	beltwaybob	fvwm or windowmaker
2021-07-05 19:04:04	wolf91	the driver for digi9652 is not working normally
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2021-07-05 19:04:17	phoenixes	define not working normally wolf91
2021-07-05 19:04:19	wolf91	 I hear voltage fromyearphones
2021-07-05 19:04:28	beltwaybob	Window Maker has been characterized as reproducing "the elegant look and feel of the NeXTSTEP GUI" and is noted as "easy to configure and easy to use."
2021-07-05 19:04:41	greatcoof	wolf91: me too!!
2021-07-05 19:04:41	phoenixes	wolf91 you mean static?
2021-07-05 19:04:43	wolf91	and if i start song 48000 then also some voltage whistling is added
2021-07-05 19:04:47	wolf91	yes
2021-07-05 19:05:04	wolf91	have just checked on windows there is no such static noise
2021-07-05 19:05:11	greatcoof	wolf91: if my huadphonu are meta they elctricute me too!
2021-07-05 19:05:27	wolf91	meta? what do you mean?
2021-07-05 19:05:40	greatcoof	if my headphones are metal they elctricute me too!
2021-07-05 19:05:52	wolf91	i have normal phones of studio grade philips
2021-07-05 19:06:04	greatcoof	sorry those mobile keybords are stupid
2021-07-05 19:06:27	phoenixes	wolf91 did you try turning the volume down?
2021-07-05 19:06:36	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-05 19:06:38	beltwaybob	how is the internal mixer
2021-07-05 19:06:40	wolf91	it's the driver or what causes it?
2021-07-05 19:06:44	beltwaybob	windows and linux could have different mixes
2021-07-05 19:06:48	greatcoof	wolf91: anyway my soution to this problem is just not using audio
2021-07-05 19:06:50	beltwaybob	maybe yours is jacked up
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2021-07-05 19:07:17	greatcoof	wolf91: they brag about not having pulseaudio i dont use alsa too!!
2021-07-05 19:07:34	wolf91	do you use oss?
2021-07-05 19:07:38	<--	CrustY_ (~crusty@2001:a61:5147:8101:c361:ceb6:c056:c5e6) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 19:07:47	greatcoof	i dont use sound
2021-07-05 19:07:50	<--	vitorgonc (~vitorgonc@2804:d55:580c:5e00:e1b5:27ef:4d7b:f029) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 19:07:50	beltwaybob	wolf91: whatever you use, you can check the mixer to see if its too high
2021-07-05 19:07:56	wolf91	i don't know how remove pulse i am on devuan
2021-07-05 19:08:13	greatcoof	i just read the subtitles
2021-07-05 19:08:19	greatcoof	or lips
2021-07-05 19:08:23	Dagmar	Thst's something you probably don't want to do unless you intend to only have one audio source activusername "dagmar".
2021-07-05 19:08:23	Dagmar	Authenticating with public key "rsa-key-20190807"
2021-07-05 19:08:23	Dagmar	Passphrase for key "rsa-key-20190807":
2021-07-05 19:08:23	Dagmar	Wrong passphrase
2021-07-05 19:08:23	Dagmar	Passphrase for key "rsa-key-20190807":
2021-07-05 19:08:24	Dagmar	Wrong passphrase
2021-07-05 19:08:24	Dagmar	Passphrase for key "rsa-key-20190807":
2021-07-05 19:08:25	Dagmar	Last login: Sun Jun 27 21:03:01 2021 from 10.3.68.1
2021-07-05 19:08:25	Dagmar	Linux 4.4.240dds.
2021-07-05 19:08:26	Dagmar	If you can lead it to water and force it to drink, it isn't a horse.
2021-07-05 19:08:26	Dagmar	dagmar@fw:~$ screen -Urd
2021-07-05 19:08:27	Dagmar	source:         RIPE # Filtered
2021-07-05 19:08:27	Dagmar	e t a time
2021-07-05 19:08:28	wolf91	sound is like high voltage, it's not white noise
2021-07-05 19:08:33	-->	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:08:34	Dagmar	Gonna skin me a cat
2021-07-05 19:08:58	-->	Pandadub (~Barones@2804:7f3:8986:9284:4fb0:e185:8c88:990e) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:09:00	rascul	there's this thing called a pastebin...
2021-07-05 19:09:01	-->	gschanuel59 (~gschanuel@user/gschanuel) has joined #linux
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2021-07-05 19:09:20	phoenixes	wolf91 have you taken a look at the mixer, or tried turning the volume down?
2021-07-05 19:09:45	Dagmar	rascul: Sorry about that.  The cat plopped her little butt right down on my mouse
2021-07-05 19:10:04	wolf91	ha interesting i just put faders 1\2 for input down and static noise is gone
2021-07-05 19:10:15	rascul	Dagmar teach your cat to use nc and termbin.com
2021-07-05 19:10:20	greatcoof	Dagmar: eww you use mouse?!
2021-07-05 19:10:28	beltwaybob	wolf91: that is what you were told
2021-07-05 19:10:30	Dagmar	wolf91: AGC will make pretty much anything into white noise once it's working hard enough
2021-07-05 19:10:30	beltwaybob	"look at mixer"
2021-07-05 19:10:51	wolf91	i wonder why input 1\2 cause it and not 3-8
2021-07-05 19:10:56	Dagmar	greatcoof: If I were using the mouse at the time, the cat wouldn't have decided it was a good place to sit
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2021-07-05 19:11:22	rascul	cats are clearly the worst creatures that exist
2021-07-05 19:11:28	<--	aklis (~aklis@user/aklis) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-07-05 19:11:43	rascul	some dogs are pretty good at solving cat problems, though
2021-07-05 19:11:44	Dagmar	I'm seriously considering putting a food storage bin over the mouse
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2021-07-05 19:12:01	Dagmar	If it works for Big Red Buttons...
2021-07-05 19:12:02	wolf91	thanks for help!
2021-07-05 19:12:06	beltwaybob	If your cat is rubbing its ass all over you, that is disgusting.
2021-07-05 19:12:12	greatcoof	Dagmar: oh so you have it pluged in collecting dust on it just like me..
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2021-07-05 19:12:31	wolf91	maybe you also know how to make airwave work?
2021-07-05 19:12:38	Dagmar	greatcoof: Mostly yeah, I just keyboard swap betweeen windows all day
2021-07-05 19:12:51	-->	gschanuel59 (~gschanuel@user/gschanuel) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:12:52	phoenixes	never heard of airwave
2021-07-05 19:12:56	greatcoof	beltwaybob: if you sit on your phone do you consider that discusting...
2021-07-05 19:13:03	beltwaybob	yes
2021-07-05 19:13:34	greatcoof	beltwaybob: so you dont sit on chairs because they are discusting?
2021-07-05 19:13:36	<--	gschanuel59 (~gschanuel@user/gschanuel) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-05 19:13:51	wolf91	it's a bridge to run windows vsts, works via wine, but strangely in the past it worked well, now 90% of vsts don't work only those without gui
2021-07-05 19:14:06	greatcoof	Dagmar: yep just so much more productive and anti-normies
2021-07-05 19:14:12	phoenixes	ask the software dev
2021-07-05 19:14:23	wolf91	ok
2021-07-05 19:14:26	beltwaybob	greatcoof: no.
2021-07-05 19:14:33	Dagmar	greatcoof: Mainly it's a matter of most of my work doesn't involve x-y positioning
2021-07-05 19:14:33	beltwaybob	greatcoof: I also dont use public toilets
2021-07-05 19:14:54	wolf91	i just think maybe i have to install visualc++ to wine or smth like that
2021-07-05 19:14:59	Dagmar	If I'm having to do something with Gimp or Inkscape is when I'm glad I have a rather fancy mouse
2021-07-05 19:15:14	<--	Sven_vB_ (~sven@user/sven-vb/x-2094958) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-07-05 19:16:24	greatcoof	beltwaybob: if you dont sit where other ppl or even you sat...do you change your chair every time you sit on it?
2021-07-05 19:16:31	beltwaybob	greatcoof: I wash it
2021-07-05 19:16:42	beltwaybob	greatcoof: I use a wooden chair, wash it with soap and a scrub brush every day
2021-07-05 19:16:55	<--	Jormungandr89 (~brad@136.49.61.2) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-07-05 19:17:38	greatcoof	Dagmar: yes but considring i donh do that kind of work im considering buying a thinkpad keyboard with a track point
2021-07-05 19:18:04	Dagmar	greacoof: I have been known to disable fumblepads with a pair of scissors
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2021-07-05 19:19:02	greatcoof	beltwaybob: youre kinda oversensitve toward butts...im guessing you would never do anal sex...
2021-07-05 19:19:20	greatcoof	Dagmar: scratch or cut the wire?
2021-07-05 19:19:23	greatcoof	or both?
2021-07-05 19:19:33	-->	gschanuel59 (~gschanuel@user/gschanuel) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:19:40	beltwaybob	greatcoof: its not over-sensitive, the butt is a very important portal
2021-07-05 19:19:43	<--	psudi (~Guest55@156.193.115.216) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-05 19:19:54	greatcoof	to....
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2021-07-05 19:20:58	beltwaybob	greatcoof: well, we are basically like big donuts
2021-07-05 19:21:01	beltwaybob	the mouth and anus are connected
2021-07-05 19:21:59	greatcoof	so no oral sex too for you...
2021-07-05 19:22:06	jabberwock	Herman Miller Aeron chairs are antimicrobial and super comfortable. js
2021-07-05 19:22:12	<--	wolf91 (~onn@31.29.140.242) has left #linux (Leaving)
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2021-07-05 19:22:40	beltwaybob	god no
2021-07-05 19:22:47	beltwaybob	you need to bleach everything
2021-07-05 19:23:05	greatcoof	intresting if your package is big enough it can go out of her mouth...
2021-07-05 19:23:18	jabberwock	I don't have whatever phobia you have. I don't like germs but I don't want to baby my immune system either
2021-07-05 19:23:41	jabberwock	I also WFH so my chair is only sat in by me
2021-07-05 19:23:44	jabberwock	and possibly ghosts
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2021-07-05 19:24:30	greatcoof	beltwaybob: do you even fk vaginas at this point...
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2021-07-05 19:25:15	onelegend	ba dum
2021-07-05 19:25:17	onelegend	ba dum
2021-07-05 19:25:19	onelegend	tiss
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2021-07-05 19:26:03	greatcoof	>baby my immune system , actually yes when i got covid for the first time it was the worst thing ever the other 2 time are like...yeah whatever
2021-07-05 19:26:04	kurahaupo	beltwaybob: Humans without body piercing have a torus number of between 5 & 7 though most loops are internal. The alimentary canal and the epiglottis are just the two most well known
2021-07-05 19:26:20	onelegend	[[R]]: ur pizza is here bru
2021-07-05 19:26:20	-->	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:26:23	onelegend	*your
2021-07-05 19:26:34	<--	ixil (~ixil@82.197.178.137) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 19:26:40	beltwaybob	kurahaupo: oh, OK
2021-07-05 19:26:46	beltwaybob	kuriwhere are the other loops
2021-07-05 19:26:52	kurahaupo	who would want a brewed pizza?
2021-07-05 19:26:59	<--	jabberwock (~jessy@user/jabberwock) has left #linux (well... bye)
2021-07-05 19:27:10	kurahaupo	mostly around the nasal cavity
2021-07-05 19:27:12	greatcoof	kurahaupo: piercing is very barbaric
2021-07-05 19:27:36	greatcoof	cutting your own body to add jewlery or whatever
2021-07-05 19:27:55	phoenixes	punching a hole in your ear
2021-07-05 19:27:57	kurahaupo	greatcoof: What bodily alterations do you consider "not barbaric"?
2021-07-05 19:28:16	onelegend	sure sounds like linux
2021-07-05 19:28:22	onelegend	:D
2021-07-05 19:29:01	greatcoof	even the ""normal"" ear hole is barbaric to me
2021-07-05 19:29:49	kurahaupo	(IMO barbaric would be coercing or doing it to someone else; what people do to their own bodies is at most a mental health issue)
2021-07-05 19:29:58	onelegend	wats dat
2021-07-05 19:30:10	onelegend	is dis da earring channl
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2021-07-05 19:30:30	onelegend	dis is computr channl sir
2021-07-05 19:30:41	kurahaupo	We're earring on the side of caution.
2021-07-05 19:30:51	onelegend	agreee
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2021-07-05 19:30:57	jim	golden earring?
2021-07-05 19:31:18	 *	kurahaupo has an errno stud
2021-07-05 19:31:31	c705	I think it's "err" not ear
2021-07-05 19:31:52	kurahaupo	c705: good to see you're keeping up
2021-07-05 19:32:07	onelegend	c706 is an expert
2021-07-05 19:32:23	onelegend	*c705
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2021-07-05 19:33:08	Maya28	why are all the channels here about l'informatique?
2021-07-05 19:33:20	phoenixes	not all channels are about IT
2021-07-05 19:34:00	Maya28	i want to know if  you're really rich or just a little bit?
2021-07-05 19:34:24	onelegend	what what what what what
2021-07-05 19:34:28	phoenixes	rich as in wealth? getting by.
2021-07-05 19:34:35	onelegend	use linux
2021-07-05 19:34:37	onelegend	linux
2021-07-05 19:34:38	onelegend	linux
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2021-07-05 19:34:41	onelegend	android
2021-07-05 19:34:47	onelegend	hmm
2021-07-05 19:34:56	onelegend	android is a modfified kernel no?
2021-07-05 19:35:06	kurahaupo	beltwaybob: there's a good YouTube video by Vsauce that answers "how many holes does a human have"
2021-07-05 19:35:14	Maya28	yes phoenixes
2021-07-05 19:35:17	rascul	i recall some effort for android to run a vanilla kernel but i don't know where that got to
2021-07-05 19:35:21	phoenixes	android uses the linux kernel
2021-07-05 19:35:25	 *	c705 runs rascul 
2021-07-05 19:35:27	phoenixes	everything else is pretty much different
2021-07-05 19:35:29	onelegend	thats nice
2021-07-05 19:35:31	Maya28	how do you guys do
2021-07-05 19:35:33	-->	galex-713 (~quassel@37.164.78.224) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:35:35	onelegend	I've ran anbox smoontly
2021-07-05 19:35:37	onelegend	*smoothly
2021-07-05 19:35:39	Maya28	i mean, i also want to code and stuff
2021-07-05 19:35:42	onelegend	anbox is so useful
2021-07-05 19:35:45	Maya28	and be a software engineer
2021-07-05 19:36:06	Maya28	but i feel like it's not my tasse de thé
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2021-07-05 19:37:15	onelegend	Anbox is IRC. Anbox is FOSS. Anbox is Freedom
2021-07-05 19:37:20	onelegend	anbox is lyfe
2021-07-05 19:37:33	onelegend	but it requires loading in extra kernel modules
2021-07-05 19:37:35	phoenixes	anbox is part of freedom
2021-07-05 19:37:49	onelegend	awesome
2021-07-05 19:37:53	rascul	onelegend you might find this interesting from under a year ago  https://lwn.net/Articles/830979/
2021-07-05 19:38:01	greatcoof	not barbaric = circumsizing (boys)
2021-07-05 19:38:06	onelegend	thx man
2021-07-05 19:38:07	onelegend	rascul
2021-07-05 19:38:13	onelegend	now I will take my leave
2021-07-05 19:38:18	onelegend	and start a new adventure!
2021-07-05 19:38:20	<--	onelegend (frosty@wireguard/tunneler/onelegend) has left #linux (WeeChat 3.2)
2021-07-05 19:38:22	Maya28	</3
2021-07-05 19:38:31	greatcoof	kurahaupo:
2021-07-05 19:38:31	Maya28	you guys broke my little heart
2021-07-05 19:38:39	phoenixes	how?
2021-07-05 19:38:47	rascul	is your big heart still ok though?
2021-07-05 19:39:44	Maya28	you don't wanna share your secret
2021-07-05 19:39:54	Maya28	about how you're really good at l'informatique
2021-07-05 19:40:10	<--	Smeef (~deathonat@user/smeef) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 19:40:30	themachine	wut
2021-07-05 19:40:50	phoenixes	hmmm i would say im slightly under average
2021-07-05 19:41:06	phoenixes	but i do know most stuff in the distrubution i use
2021-07-05 19:41:33	rascul	i don't know what l'informatique is
2021-07-05 19:41:38	Maya28	you do work for an IT company phoenixes?
2021-07-05 19:41:41	phoenixes	no
2021-07-05 19:41:45	Maya28	it's IT in french rascul
2021-07-05 19:41:46	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-05 19:41:49	rascul	oh
2021-07-05 19:41:51	themachine	oh
2021-07-05 19:41:52	circuitbone	japanese use gold to repair important stuff even broken hearts
2021-07-05 19:41:54	phoenixes	informatique should be clear-ish enough?
2021-07-05 19:42:10	rascul	i figured it was likely something with information
2021-07-05 19:42:10	themachine	Maya28: My secret is google
2021-07-05 19:42:12	kfrench	wut?
2021-07-05 19:42:13	phoenixes	i have yet to take a job
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2021-07-05 19:42:32	Maya28	kfrench tu es français aussi?
2021-07-05 19:42:37	kfrench	Maya28: wut?
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2021-07-05 19:42:51	greatcoof	themachine: google is bad use bing
2021-07-05 19:42:59	themachine	no thanks
2021-07-05 19:43:00	Maya28	there's french in your username, so i thought you were french
2021-07-05 19:43:03	themachine	but I respect your opinion
2021-07-05 19:43:11	Maya28	i want to buy a yaris
2021-07-05 19:43:22	kfrench	Maya28: Are you a number?
2021-07-05 19:43:32	Maya28	and I see that IT freelancer makes a lot of money
2021-07-05 19:43:48	Maya28	belle réplique kfrench
2021-07-05 19:43:48	rascul	some can
2021-07-05 19:43:49	gry	Maya28: yaris is a car?
2021-07-05 19:43:56	greatcoof	that was sarcasm but i fogive you in world where people have such stupid opinions
2021-07-05 19:44:01	<--	wootehfoot (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-05 19:44:09	rascul	all my opinions are stupid
2021-07-05 19:44:11	Maya28	yes, the smallest version of a corolla, but for woman like me
2021-07-05 19:44:14	greatcoof	themachine:
2021-07-05 19:44:21	themachine	greatcoof:
2021-07-05 19:44:34	themachine	oh I see
2021-07-05 19:44:37	Maya28	i am also stupid greatcoof '=(
2021-07-05 19:44:44	gry	Maya28: interesting. you know ##cars exists, right?
2021-07-05 19:44:50	gry	Maya28: /join ##cars
2021-07-05 19:44:50	themachine	I figured as much but you never know now
2021-07-05 19:45:05	Maya28	gry i don't want to talk about cars
2021-07-05 19:45:19	Maya28	i want to talk about your skills
2021-07-05 19:45:24	themachine	what about our skills
2021-07-05 19:45:25	greatcoof	themachine: i use something called searx
2021-07-05 19:45:34	Maya28	do you all have a gamer laptop?
2021-07-05 19:45:35	gry	Maya28: ok, thought it would be interesting for car owners (or prospective car owners) to go there. no problem
2021-07-05 19:45:47	gry	i don't have a gamer laptop, i have a thinkpenguin laptop
2021-07-05 19:45:48	Maya28	yes gry
2021-07-05 19:45:51	greatcoof	i hate roads
2021-07-05 19:45:52	themachine	greatcoof: I'll admit I should get away from google's search engine. I've broken away from basically every other one of their services.
2021-07-05 19:46:06	Dagmar	I'll care if someone finds a dual-din android head unit that has a LineageOS build available
2021-07-05 19:46:06	Maya28	why so greatcoof?
2021-07-05 19:46:15	themachine	Maya28: No, my desktop is for gaming. My laptop is for working.
2021-07-05 19:46:22	rascul	Dagmar build your own
2021-07-05 19:46:22	<--	shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) has quit (Quit: shibboleth)
2021-07-05 19:46:33	Maya28	dung
2021-07-05 19:46:33	rascul	there are dual din chassis available
2021-07-05 19:46:37	Dagmar	rascul: I kind of despise doing circuitry work
2021-07-05 19:46:40	phoenixes	nope maya28, i run an intel celeron single core 1.5ghz with 243 mib
2021-07-05 19:46:41	rascul	mini-itx
2021-07-05 19:46:43	 *	themachine is super excited to receive his framework laptop this month
2021-07-05 19:46:56	rascul	https://www.mo-co-so.com/Bybyte-BBX-1-Mini-ITX-In-Dash-Double-Din-Case-p/mcs-byb-bbx-1.htm
2021-07-05 19:46:59	Dagmar	...and literally every single unit on the market is from some bloody chinese company that cares not one bit about making sources available
2021-07-05 19:47:00	djph	ohgod, you're here too themachine ?!
2021-07-05 19:47:08	phoenixes	oh yeah with 2.2gb swap too lol
2021-07-05 19:47:09	Maya28	all your laptops are 16 go when it comes to the RAM?
2021-07-05 19:47:13	rascul	7" screen mounts up
2021-07-05 19:47:13	themachine	djph: who are you?
2021-07-05 19:47:28	djph	themachine: nobody of consequence.
2021-07-05 19:47:29	<--	xcm (~xcm@user/xcm) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 19:47:31	rascul	mostly just a regular pc build except smaller
2021-07-05 19:47:32	themachine	hey same here
2021-07-05 19:47:36	Maya28	are all the users here male?
2021-07-05 19:47:40	djph	no.
2021-07-05 19:47:42	greatcoof	Maya28: because now cities are biult around the idea that you have a car which replaces lots of local stores withe walmart (moving us to a centralised entity)
2021-07-05 19:47:46	-->	xcm (~xcm@user/xcm) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:47:48	themachine	Maya28: I identify as an attack helicopter
2021-07-05 19:47:49	Dagmar	rascul: If I want it to look like an IED, sure
2021-07-05 19:47:56	lazysundaydreams	so many questions :D
2021-07-05 19:48:05	phoenixes	Maya28 laptops have varying amount of rams, but most laptops have 2gb or more now. i just happen to be using a old laptop
2021-07-05 19:48:20	rascul	Dagmar it'll look just like any other dual din head unit with a screen once installed
2021-07-05 19:48:21	Maya28	i only have 8 =( =( =(
2021-07-05 19:48:32	Maya28	lazysundaydreams yes
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2021-07-05 19:48:44	greatcoof	Maya28: luke smith stuff :p
2021-07-05 19:49:18	Maya28	is it like true?
2021-07-05 19:49:42	greatcoof	>is it like true? , is that for me?
2021-07-05 19:50:01	Maya28	in google search, they say that IT salary are above 100 000$ per year
2021-07-05 19:50:12	themachine	entirely depends on the position
2021-07-05 19:50:18	themachine	IT is a very broad term
2021-07-05 19:50:33	themachine	Level 1 helpdesk is technically IT and they are not making six figures
2021-07-05 19:50:42	phoenixes	too broad that if you were to learn everything under it, your mind would probably burst
2021-07-05 19:50:56	Maya28	X)
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2021-07-05 19:51:13	greatcoof	themachine:  yep its like saying i work films
2021-07-05 19:51:23	-->	autopsy (~jasper@2600:8800:ff0d:400:11f4:a4c3:52ba:2331) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 19:51:25	 *	themachine knows what kinda films the greatcoof is in
2021-07-05 19:51:43	autopsy	Hi lacroix AND JIM AND msiism, and gierha.
2021-07-05 19:51:53	autopsy	Hi gu8ys.
2021-07-05 19:52:14	greatcoof	themachine: do you work as an actor or the person who holds the mic
2021-07-05 19:52:20	Maya28	hi autopsy
2021-07-05 19:52:21	autopsy	Im back with onworks.net at my fingertips to figure out this MSI quark disabling subordintate interrupt computer board stalling boot shit.
2021-07-05 19:52:31	autopsy	Hi Maya28
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2021-07-05 19:52:41	Maya28	are you also rich autopsy?
2021-07-05 19:52:46	themachine	greatcoof: lighting
2021-07-05 19:52:46	autopsy	I'm a college student.
2021-07-05 19:52:47	 *	greatcoof works in children films
2021-07-05 19:52:59	Maya28	a potentiel rich man then
2021-07-05 19:53:00	autopsy	Maya28 I get 794 dollars every month.
2021-07-05 19:53:17	Maya28	how?
2021-07-05 19:53:20	greatcoof	autopsy: where
2021-07-05 19:53:31	jim	autopsy, hi
2021-07-05 19:53:40	<--	alucardromero (~alucardro@107-131-221-213.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-05 19:54:46	autopsy	greatcoof, vworker.com renta-coder.net
2021-07-05 19:54:55	autopsy	rent-a-coder.net
2021-07-05 19:55:27	autopsy	Nah its SSI treasury Disablility payments.
2021-07-05 19:56:05	autopsy	I'm gone schizo-phreniaiac-alacka-dack-sacjk psycho
2021-07-05 19:56:25	phoenixes	thats a long word of shortened medical terms
2021-07-05 19:56:38	beltwaybob	pat sajak
2021-07-05 19:56:38	<--	cybr1d (~cybr1d@user/cybr1d) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-05 19:56:58	Maya28	so you're also a med-student
2021-07-05 19:57:05	Maya28	autopsy?
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2021-07-05 19:59:01	autopsy	yeah comp sci focus security and medical examiner coroner
2021-07-05 19:59:10	beltwaybob	coroner
2021-07-05 19:59:10	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-05 19:59:12	beltwaybob	fancy title
2021-07-05 19:59:14	autopsy	yep
2021-07-05 19:59:18	beltwaybob	are you going to examine the bodies
2021-07-05 19:59:23	autopsy	yep
2021-07-05 19:59:26	autopsy	maybe
2021-07-05 19:59:29	themachine	hopefully
2021-07-05 20:00:20	autopsy	dso a y incision in the chest to th e belly then break the ribs then examine the organs then put them all back and stitch it up ready for burial or wake or rthe morgue
2021-07-05 20:00:37	<--	noyb (~noyb@user/noyb) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 20:00:45	beltwaybob	im not sure you get to do that, autopsy
2021-07-05 20:00:49	beltwaybob	you need free and informed consent
2021-07-05 20:00:55	beltwaybob	you cant just do that without permission
2021-07-05 20:01:01	beltwaybob	so first you need to check the records
2021-07-05 20:01:06	beltwaybob	find out if the person wants you to do that
2021-07-05 20:01:07	themachine	not with that attitude
2021-07-05 20:01:26	beltwaybob	Sajak is married to Lesly Brown-Sajak, a photographer, with whom he has a son, Patrick Michael James Sajak (born September 22, 1990), and a daughter, Margaret Marie Sajak (born January 5, 1995). The couple lives in Severna Park, Maryland,[30] with a second home in Los Angeles, California.
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2021-07-05 20:01:33	beltwaybob	Pat Sajak
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2021-07-05 20:02:17	optimist	Is there a command to check which program is making request to a particular domain?
2021-07-05 20:02:29	autopsy	Yeah records and permissions and then the saw to the chest bone
2021-07-05 20:03:02	-->	expert975 (~expert975@user/expert975) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 20:03:22	optimist	My raspberry pi is making request to dynamicdns.park-your-domain.com every second and I have no clue how to find out which program is doing that
2021-07-05 20:03:38	gry	optimist: hi
2021-07-05 20:03:43	beltwaybob	well, how are you finding out that the request is being made?
2021-07-05 20:03:46	gry	optimist: is there anything i 'cron -e' about it?
2021-07-05 20:04:11	peetaur	optimist: maybe nethogs will show it...maybe you can filter by domain
2021-07-05 20:04:24	beltwaybob	if its by sockets netstat -p will give the program
2021-07-05 20:04:34	Maya28	autopsy
2021-07-05 20:04:40	peetaur	man page seems not to have any filtering...  also there's ss with -p for process id
2021-07-05 20:05:21	Maya28	i still didn't get it
2021-07-05 20:05:25	autopsy	Maya28 yeah I know what you ????
2021-07-05 20:05:43	Maya28	autopsie in french  is what you said about checking les cadavres
2021-07-05 20:05:48	optimist	thanks gry, peetaur and beltwaybob
2021-07-05 20:05:56	Maya28	but autopsy is an IT software
2021-07-05 20:06:09	autopsy	SluethKit Autopsy
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2021-07-05 20:06:12	autopsy	Yes
2021-07-05 20:06:16	autopsy	Coroner is my title
2021-07-05 20:06:23	beltwaybob	official government coroner
2021-07-05 20:06:31	Maya28	waw
2021-07-05 20:06:34	optimist	I just tried that. Couldn't figure out. I'll try digging into it more
2021-07-05 20:06:40	beltwaybob	what if someone dies in a boat
2021-07-05 20:06:43	beltwaybob	does the coroner have jurisdiction
2021-07-05 20:07:04	Maya28	waw waw waw
2021-07-05 20:07:14	<--	sed (~sed@pool-100-7-38-116.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 20:07:31	gry	optimist: 'sudo grep -R dynamicdns /'
2021-07-05 20:07:32	Maya28	is it a med speciality or law?
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2021-07-05 20:07:40	gry	optimist: as last resort...
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2021-07-05 20:08:04	expert975	Can I tell linux not to flush part of the disk cache when it starts swapping out pages? In other words, can I reserve some RAM for the disk cache even when low on RAM? I have swap on compressed ram(zram) and I get a lot of disk access when the kernel starts swapping out. I'm pretty sure it's being caused by the processes' executables being read from disk over and over again
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2021-07-05 20:08:48	gry	autopsy: rent-a-coder.net site not found
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2021-07-05 20:10:02	optimist	beltwaybob: I have pihole installed on another raspberry pi, which logs everything. It's acting as the dns for my local network. That domain is at the top of the permitted list, with thousands of requests made in a few days.
2021-07-05 20:10:16	<--	frodo (~sethkush@d67-193-113-23.home3.cgocable.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-05 20:10:46	beltwaybob	optimist: oh, ok, so it is a dns request. and you cant tell who is making the request?
2021-07-05 20:10:55	optimist	yeah
2021-07-05 20:11:00	autopsy	Coroner has jurisdiction anywhere the locAL peoples do not have a space for a human's remains.
2021-07-05 20:11:13	beltwaybob	uh
2021-07-05 20:11:15	beltwaybob	really
2021-07-05 20:11:15	autopsy	Don't want to leave them in the street on the curb you know but in the water?
2021-07-05 20:11:23	beltwaybob	so the local peoples just need a deep freeze and the coroner is excluded
2021-07-05 20:11:24	autopsy	Depends on the cpountry of waters.
2021-07-05 20:11:33	autopsy	Yes.
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2021-07-05 20:11:35	beltwaybob	How big a freezer
2021-07-05 20:11:40	autopsy	Weelll and a tractor backhoe.
2021-07-05 20:11:45	beltwaybob	no way
2021-07-05 20:11:47	beltwaybob	you can just cremate
2021-07-05 20:11:56	beltwaybob	viking funeral pyre
2021-07-05 20:11:56	autopsy	40 by 20 700 inches
2021-07-05 20:12:13	<--	Atum_ (~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232) has quit (Quit: Atum_)
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2021-07-05 20:12:22	autopsy	40 freet by 20 feet by 7000 inches
2021-07-05 20:12:37	beltwaybob	how big a fire do you need to creamte a body
2021-07-05 20:13:04	esselfe	it has to be hot enough
2021-07-05 20:13:17	beltwaybob	thats a good point
2021-07-05 20:13:23	beltwaybob	so it cant be insufficiently hot
2021-07-05 20:13:27	beltwaybob	im impressed with that contribution
2021-07-05 20:13:29	autopsy	You need oil gasoline wax sodium hydroxide hydrochloric acid bath and a lot of propane gas burning in large torch head incinerator type pits under and above the body pointed at the body.
2021-07-05 20:13:40	beltwaybob	no
2021-07-05 20:13:43	beltwaybob	you can just use wood
2021-07-05 20:13:46	beltwaybob	and straw
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2021-07-05 20:13:52	beltwaybob	like build a big cross-criss of wood
2021-07-05 20:13:53	Sauvin	And lots and lots of time.
2021-07-05 20:13:54	beltwaybob	with straw in the middle
2021-07-05 20:13:57	beltwaybob	Sure
2021-07-05 20:13:59	beltwaybob	keep the party going
2021-07-05 20:14:06	beltwaybob	Add more wood
2021-07-05 20:14:11	autopsy	Yeah straw absorbs cadaverine and putrescine
2021-07-05 20:14:21	autopsy	Wood burns when the oils drip into it on to it
2021-07-05 20:14:22	themachine	a cremation party
2021-07-05 20:14:25	themachine	sounds f un
2021-07-05 20:14:28	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-05 20:14:35	beltwaybob	you could have chips and dip for people
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2021-07-05 20:14:46	autopsy	Yes yep yeah way weee go lets go die now!!!! fun fun
2021-07-05 20:14:50	themachine	oh I've got some great dip recipes
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2021-07-05 20:14:55	beltwaybob	if you are dying, just leave 500 to buy chips wholesale, to be given away
2021-07-05 20:14:58	beltwaybob	and like 100 lbs of mayo
2021-07-05 20:15:07	autopsy	And Winonas got a big brown beaver sand she helpd him up in the iar
2021-07-05 20:15:09	beltwaybob	americans LOVE dipping their chips in mayo
2021-07-05 20:15:09	<--	Junglist (~Junglist@user/junglist) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 20:15:10	themachine	pm me an invite when you settle on a place and time
2021-07-05 20:15:17	themachine	beltwaybob: excuse me
2021-07-05 20:15:27	beltwaybob	Americans love using mayo for all purposes
2021-07-05 20:15:30	beltwaybob	Just as a general sauce
2021-07-05 20:15:46	jim	autopsy, calm down
2021-07-05 20:15:50	beltwaybob	Also as a high performance lubricant, to facilitate a greenhouse gas reduction by reducing number of chews
2021-07-05 20:15:53	Maya28	mayo is life
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2021-07-05 20:15:57	beltwaybob	Simply coat the food in mayo and you can chew it fewer times
2021-07-05 20:16:02	themachine	mayo, the high performance lubricant
2021-07-05 20:16:05	themachine	TIL
2021-07-05 20:16:18	autopsy	I made some garlic onion greenonion red shcfili powder dark red chili powder habanero T-bone steak sauteed with mushrooms andf sugar brown sugar in a pan its frozen and tastes like heaven with the frozen habanerosd its hot but cold frozen cold to the taste.
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2021-07-05 20:16:35	beltwaybob	autopsy: sounds good
2021-07-05 20:16:39	beltwaybob	autopsy: any mayo
2021-07-05 20:16:42	Maya28	what
2021-07-05 20:16:42	<--	Nact (~l@host-85-27-121-203.dynamic.voo.be) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-07-05 20:17:00	Sauvin	I'm not aware that mayo is all that popular with Americans. You never see them dipping their French fries in it, for example.
2021-07-05 20:17:17	 *	themachine just uses mayo for sandwiches
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2021-07-05 20:17:25	jim	I've tried that, not too bad
2021-07-05 20:17:29	beltwaybob	Americans use mayo on everything
2021-07-05 20:17:33	beltwaybob	Hot wings
2021-07-05 20:17:34	autopsy	Mayo is good on Carl's Jr chicken sandwiches tuna fish with relish and sugar and onions andf thats it.
2021-07-05 20:17:37	phoenixes	i thought it was ketchup
2021-07-05 20:17:37	Maya28	actually, there's no frencg fries
2021-07-05 20:17:37	beltwaybob	Hambuirgers
2021-07-05 20:17:38	beltwaybob	Fries
2021-07-05 20:17:45	Maya28	the chips are from belgium
2021-07-05 20:17:48	beltwaybob	you put mayo on everything
2021-07-05 20:17:50	Sauvin	beltwaybob, you do not know what you're talking about. Hush.
2021-07-05 20:17:58	beltwaybob	I am a big fan of USA and its mayo culture
2021-07-05 20:18:08	autopsy	Jim, yeah I just got back from Circle K.
2021-07-05 20:18:18	autopsy	Took me 28 minutes on a bike.
2021-07-05 20:18:29	jim	waht's circle k?
2021-07-05 20:18:45	Sauvin	Convenience store/gas station.
2021-07-05 20:18:45	themachine	gas station/corner store
2021-07-05 20:18:58	beltwaybob	you can buy convenience foods
2021-07-05 20:19:00	beltwaybob	and petrol
2021-07-05 20:19:01	beltwaybob	and maps
2021-07-05 20:19:04	beltwaybob	sometimes hats
2021-07-05 20:19:11	autopsy	A mstoire that has Bugler and burritos and fruit and drinks slike strawberry milk and monster foccoffee and ICE and money orders and stamps jim.
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2021-07-05 20:19:17	Sauvin	beltwaybob, stop using the ENTER key as punctuation.
2021-07-05 20:19:20	beltwaybob	in the canadian rockies often shirts w/ animals
2021-07-05 20:20:00	<--	falk689 (~quassel@host-185-210-113-191.wime.it) has quit (Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.)
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2021-07-05 20:21:47	phoenixbyrd	Anyone here familiar with checkinstall??? Wracking my brain over trying to get it to build a .deb with a specific name but it keeps tacking on the version number to the filename.
2021-07-05 20:22:30	jim	usually .deb files have version numbers in their filenames
2021-07-05 20:22:43	phoenixes	have you tried --help flag
2021-07-05 20:22:57	autopsy	checkinstall needs the checkinstall.MAkefile modified to not include anything in VERSION="" So VERSION="34-" VERSION=""
2021-07-05 20:23:08	autopsy	Try vi checkinstall
2021-07-05 20:23:15	autopsy	Do eeet it it it
2021-07-05 20:23:19	phoenixbyrd	ok thanks, I'll look at that
2021-07-05 20:23:20	autopsy	Yeah!
2021-07-05 20:23:33	-->	finsternis (~X@23.226.237.192) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 20:23:37	autopsy	Its all macros dude.
2021-07-05 20:24:16	autopsy	VERSION NAME RELEASE Provides: gcc Requires: make patch flex groff troff nroff ld ldconfig
2021-07-05 20:24:20	jim	if it's all macros, where's the dad crow?
2021-07-05 20:25:33	autopsy	Scarecrow scarecrow what pills you poppin a tiny pill they call oxycontin its so tiny yeah its got you draggin havent you heard big things come in small packages its to tiny itll eat you up can I move up out your sea fobars and this is Lil Wyte Jim oxycotton----
2021-07-05 20:25:41	autopsy	Dad Crow, macros?
2021-07-05 20:25:50	phoenixbyrd	no checkinstall.makefile ... went into makefile file but don't see what to edit there
2021-07-05 20:25:53	autopsy	MY CROWS DAD CROW YEAH I GET IT HAHAHAHAH
2021-07-05 20:26:34	<--	b1101 (~b1101@ool-44c01641.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Quit: b1101)
2021-07-05 20:26:42	autopsy	No then do vi checkinstalll straight
2021-07-05 20:27:04	autopsy	Could be a black crow.
2021-07-05 20:27:24	autopsy	A female black crow which might have a 6 foot wingspan as they do in Arizxona here.
2021-07-05 20:27:33	<--	fpombal (~fpombal@2001:818:d95d:a500:c707:f4e5:d1f1:783b) has quit (Quit: fpombal)
2021-07-05 20:27:40	autopsy	Yep they are huge.
2021-07-05 20:27:53	autopsy	4 foot then.
2021-07-05 20:28:07	autopsy	Nah like 5 6 feet man.
2021-07-05 20:28:16	autopsy	Seriously.
2021-07-05 20:28:22	jim	yeah sorry I did the macro/dad crow thing... was a mistake
2021-07-05 20:28:22	phoenixbyrd	This is the exchange I had with someone... Trying to build a .deb for raspberry pi. xfce4-weather-plugin 10.2 runs fine, version in repo is crap
2021-07-05 20:28:24	phoenixbyrd	Hey @phoenixbyrd -- Are you able to make the deb so that the package name is "xfce4-weather-plugin" instead of "xfce4-weather-plugin-xfce4-weather-plugin?" Then it would be able to simply upgrade the older one.
2021-07-05 20:28:24	phoenixbyrd	Right now it's refusing to install due to resource conflicts with the older one. I'd have to uninstall xfce4-goodies entirely to be able to install it.
2021-07-05 20:28:31	Sauvin	Autopsy, you're a BAD BOY! You made me do some reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation#Modern_process
2021-07-05 20:29:02	Maya28	bonne nuit les huitres
2021-07-05 20:29:02	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 20:29:24	jim	Maya28, what's that mean?
2021-07-05 20:29:40	autopsy	Sauvin yep modern cremation techniquies its hard to burn off all the water and oil and salt from bones and then the bones OMG GOD MAN.
2021-07-05 20:29:40	Sauvin	"Good night, oysters!"
2021-07-05 20:29:56	autopsy	YEP YEP.
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2021-07-05 20:31:34	Maya28	les huitres are one the kind of sea food
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2021-07-05 20:32:00	Kyv	yes
2021-07-05 20:32:03	Kyv	the goodies
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2021-07-05 20:33:24	rascul	i see food
2021-07-05 20:33:30	beltwaybob	fud
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2021-07-05 20:36:47	Kyv	weather plugins, now we are getting to the meat & potatoes
2021-07-05 20:37:57	<--	lsrtl_ (~lsrtl@user/lsrtl) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 20:38:13	beltwaybob	an ability to contorl te weather in your house
2021-07-05 20:38:19	-->	noyb (~noyb@user/noyb) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 20:38:19	beltwaybob	just install a plugin and it controls your whole future
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2021-07-05 20:39:29	Kyv	or at least you know whether or not to grab your snoopy umbrella
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2021-07-05 20:40:45	beltwaybob	We could have a climate control app
2021-07-05 20:40:54	beltwaybob	People stop doing things if it gets too hot
2021-07-05 20:40:57	Maya28	i'm changing all of the stations
2021-07-05 20:40:59	beltwaybob	they pledge to stop using power
2021-07-05 20:41:06	Maya28	we drew a map to a better place
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2021-07-05 20:41:29	VJTD3	for openssl, TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x1302) seems to turn on multiple 128bit methods, is there a way to just get the 256 ones? excluding the 128 ones seems to not work, it's just ignored.
2021-07-05 20:41:39	Maya28	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmugSMBh_iI&list=RDNmugSMBh_iI&start_radio=1
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2021-07-05 20:43:24	Dagmar	VJTD3: The same way as always.  Disable all of them and then re-enable just the ones you need.
2021-07-05 20:43:50	Dagmar	...or just stop getting excited about the number.
2021-07-05 20:44:03	phoenixes	or just ignore it
2021-07-05 20:44:07	VJTD3	i tried that and it enables multiple for that one type
2021-07-05 20:44:10	Dagmar	No one's cracking AES128 anytime soon
2021-07-05 20:44:38	VJTD3	if i litteraly have only TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 it still enables the 128bit ones
2021-07-05 20:44:59	rascul	did you literally disable the rest tho ugh?
2021-07-05 20:45:02	Kyv	literally dude?
2021-07-05 20:45:26	VJTD3	yea, disabled all first
2021-07-05 20:45:29	VJTD3	then TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384
2021-07-05 20:45:44	VJTD3	that's why i don't understand it
2021-07-05 20:45:51	rascul	share your cipher string
2021-07-05 20:46:37	rascul	also share your openssl version
2021-07-05 20:46:55	c705	OpenSSL 1.1.1k  25 Mar 2021
2021-07-05 20:47:08	VJTD3	yea, i'm ok k
2021-07-05 20:47:15	VJTD3	on k*
2021-07-05 20:47:38	Kyv	share k
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2021-07-05 20:48:58	Dagmar	That it's taking so long to produce what should be a _really_ short string is a little suspect.
2021-07-05 20:49:13	VJTD3	i wasn't ssh'ed in
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2021-07-05 20:53:39	VJTD3	this fails: SSLCipherSuite TLSv1.3 -ALL:TLS_CHACHA20_POLY1305_SHA256
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2021-07-05 20:54:39	VJTD3	sorry meant: SSLCipherSuite TLSv1.3 -ALL:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384
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2021-07-05 20:54:51	VJTD3	that fails because of -ALL
2021-07-05 20:55:08	VJTD3	if i just do: SSLCipherSuite TLSv1.3 TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384
2021-07-05 20:55:16	VJTD3	then it works but the 128 pop in
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2021-07-05 20:56:43	Dagmar	And which file are you putting that into?
2021-07-05 20:56:55	VJTD3	OpenSSL 1.1.1k  FIPS 25 Mar 2021
2021-07-05 20:57:17	VJTD3	apache's config
2021-07-05 20:57:48	VJTD3	i only have httpd.conf all the others i disabled etc
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2021-07-05 21:01:35	VJTD3	on the other side of the spectrum, TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_ARIA_256_GCM_SHA384 will showup if you do all but if you specifically name it the cipher is ignored and not included
2021-07-05 21:01:39	Dagmar	Wouldn't it be cool if people read the documentation and learned things instead of copypasting strings
2021-07-05 21:01:53	VJTD3	i didn't copy paste?
2021-07-05 21:02:14	VJTD3	do you see something somewhere i'm missing?
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2021-07-05 21:03:51	VJTD3	if you have a link to something that explains what i'm missing please send it
2021-07-05 21:04:14	phoenixes	the answer was read the docs
2021-07-05 21:04:47	Dagmar	Specifically https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/mod_ssl.html#sslciphersuite
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2021-07-05 21:05:25	Dagmar	This isn't a thing one should _ever_ try to rice out
2021-07-05 21:05:28	VJTD3	hmm, default you mean?
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2021-07-05 21:17:39	c705	you can give the user a link, but no matter what you do, only they can click on it
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2021-07-05 21:33:34	bparker	c705: what?
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2021-07-05 21:33:58	 *	rascul gives bparker a link
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2021-07-05 21:34:14	VJTD3	i don't see what i'm missing/doing wrong, i've read it before and again now and tried all kinds of options, is there something i'm not understanding?
2021-07-05 21:34:46	rascul	i can't seem to get my openssl to list just that cipher with 'openssl ciphers'
2021-07-05 21:35:07	rascul	i have k and it's in the list without specifying a cipher string
2021-07-05 21:35:29	rascul	i didn't try very hard, though
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2021-07-05 21:36:45	VJTD3	for me TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 forces the 128 ones, i want to exclude them and excluding them with - or ! fails
2021-07-05 21:37:14	VJTD3	it forces a set of the 1 256 and 2 128's
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2021-07-05 21:38:11	VJTD3	TLS_AES_128_CCM_SHA256 TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
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2021-07-05 21:38:18	VJTD3	those get forced
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2021-07-05 21:38:52	VJTD3	(but not TLS_AES_128_CCM_8_SHA256 which is part fo that in theory, not that i want it)
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2021-07-05 21:39:48	 *	esselfe turns rascul into a cipher
2021-07-05 21:40:27	esselfe	man openttd is awesome with the extended industry set
2021-07-05 21:40:34	esselfe	wonderful game
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2021-07-05 21:41:56	c705	yes, yes it is
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2021-07-05 21:51:13	AndroidDAW	why do i get this? https://gist.github.com/mgood7123/a92681a677a2cb8585ffa6a66a9bbf4f
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2021-07-05 21:52:58	Dagmar	Because you're foolishly trying to put a bash script together as if it were a one-liner.
2021-07-05 21:53:13	Dagmar	Write it like you might one day actually have to debug why it isn't working
2021-07-05 21:53:20	Dagmar	...because that just might be _today_.
2021-07-05 21:53:34	[[R]]	AndroidDAW: type in 'help test'... [[ is the same thing as test
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2021-07-05 21:54:01	Dagmar	A for loop will not kill you.
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2021-07-05 21:54:59	blackgatonegro	Isn't a loop a way to crash something?
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2021-07-05 21:55:19	[[R]]	blackgatonegro: what?
2021-07-05 21:55:24	c705	if you're foolish sure
2021-07-05 21:55:36	c705	you can cut your arm off with a chainsaw
2021-07-05 21:55:56	Dagmar	AndroidDAW: Just to make people angry, bash uses math operators for string tests, and textual operators for math tests
2021-07-05 21:56:09	Dagmar	You need -gt not >
2021-07-05 21:56:11	-->	boxelephant (~boxelepha@d192-24-108-69.col.wideopenwest.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 21:56:18	Dagmar	...and also a damn for loop.  _Seriously_
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2021-07-05 21:57:05	Dagmar	Flipping back and forth between perl and bash this is something that pisses me off on the regular.
2021-07-05 21:57:58	curdlesnoot	AndroidDAW: do you need your file search to be recursive, in this instance?
2021-07-05 21:58:00	blackgatonegro	Anyway as everyone knew it would, audacity became spyware - -
2021-07-05 21:58:49	AndroidDAW	curdlesnoot: yes
2021-07-05 21:58:58	AndroidDAW	Dagmar: hm ok, will try -gt
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2021-07-05 22:00:05	curdlesnoot	AndroidDAW: https://termbin.com/rt8n2
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2021-07-05 22:01:12	AndroidDAW	curdlesnoot: ooo
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2021-07-05 22:01:47	AndroidDAW	"# put your no longer horrendously escaped code here ..." lmao
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2021-07-05 22:02:05	kurahaupo	Dagmar: Or more to the point, they need (( a < b )) instead of [[ a -lt b ]] or [ "$a" -lt "$b" ]
2021-07-05 22:02:15	curdlesnoot	AndroidDAW: ;)
2021-07-05 22:02:21	AndroidDAW	curdlesnoot: :)
2021-07-05 22:02:37	blackgatonegro	Ah... that reminds me of math class.
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2021-07-05 22:02:46	 *	AndroidDAW probably wont use that as -exec and \ works just as good
2021-07-05 22:02:49	AndroidDAW	:)
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2021-07-05 22:03:42	curdlesnoot	enjoy the pain, then.
2021-07-05 22:04:12	curdlesnoot	another downside is that you're making unlintable by shellcheck.net, which I'm sensing you would greatly benefit from.
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2021-07-05 22:04:47	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: consider using « find -whatever -exec OtherScript {} + » and then putting all that stuff in OtherScript instead
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2021-07-05 22:05:18	blackgatonegro	Good thing my mint version of Audacity is so old then.
2021-07-05 22:05:23	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: also, since this is a Bash question, consider asking it in #bash
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2021-07-05 22:06:16	akoana	AndroidDAW: use ... if (( size > cap )); then ... # Arithmetic expansion/evaluation, as kurahaupo pointed out (and you should use lowercase for your variable names too...)
2021-07-05 22:06:18	 *	[[R]] bashes kurahaupo 
2021-07-05 22:06:20	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: or at the very least, single-quote your mini script, and pass the located file name as $1
2021-07-05 22:07:06	kurahaupo	And dirname+basename … really!!? Which century is this?
2021-07-05 22:08:04	<--	voltage_ (voltage@user/voltage) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-05 22:08:35	akoana	and unquoted $vars and echo instead of printf ...
2021-07-05 22:08:52	Khaytsus	I think most distros are still on old audacity because of their modified QT
2021-07-05 22:08:58	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: you've put quotes around the RHS of assignment, and nowhere else, which is pretty much completely backwards
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2021-07-05 22:11:01	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: Did you consider using find -size +"$CAP"M
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2021-07-05 22:15:10	rascul	ugh don't do all that with bash -c
2021-07-05 22:15:17	rascul	my eyes are bleeding :(
2021-07-05 22:15:40	 *	esselfe pats rascul
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2021-07-05 22:16:08	akoana	this script could go terribly wrong when out of disk space, split ... and then unconditionally rm ...
2021-07-05 22:16:11	[[R]]	rascul: bleeding love?
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2021-07-05 22:16:46	rascul	damnit [[R]] you made me spill bong water on myself
2021-07-05 22:16:58	[[R]]	haha
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2021-07-05 22:19:13	kurahaupo	AndroidDAW: To see what's wrong with the quotes, try this: type « touch $FOLDER/\ \* » and then run your script
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2021-07-05 22:19:54	AndroidDAW	hmmm
2021-07-05 22:20:21	AndroidDAW	i will see when i get back
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2021-07-05 22:20:22	AndroidDAW	i gtg
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2021-07-05 22:21:20	kurahaupo	rascul: what a waste of water
2021-07-05 22:21:38	VJTD3	Dagmar, what am i missing?
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2021-07-05 22:30:02	Dagmar	heh
2021-07-05 22:30:19	Dagmar	kurahaupo: If they see that in #bash they're liable to lynch him
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2021-07-05 22:33:52	Dagmar	As to (( or [[, I prefer to keep changes minimal so the n00b doesn't get confused
2021-07-05 22:34:22	Dagmar	Granted, in the case of _that_ script, a little firebombing probably won't hurt
2021-07-05 22:35:35	-->	i0e (~is0ke3@user/is0ke3) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 22:37:40	kurahaupo	Dagmar: I'll just leave it outside during the next firestorm season here
2021-07-05 22:38:48	Khaytsus	Dagmar: I once had someeone ask me for "opinions" on a 1000 line bash script that did the exact same thing about 40 times
2021-07-05 22:38:56	Khaytsus	It was at work so I had to be somewhat nice
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2021-07-05 22:39:35	Khaytsus	Then a week later, we tried a function, it didn't work.  Let me see  your script now.  Function tossed at the bottom of the script.  Um.  Yep?
2021-07-05 22:39:36	kurahaupo	People get told "use (()) for arithmetic" and somehow interpret that as excluding comparing numbers
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2021-07-05 22:39:57	twainwek	good morning
2021-07-05 22:40:19	Khaytsus	I prefer to not use the vagina for math, I try to stick with posix sh
2021-07-05 22:40:20	kurahaupo	twainwek: good $local_time_of_day
2021-07-05 22:40:36	[[R]]	Khaytsus: had to be nice?
2021-07-05 22:40:44	[[R]]	Khaytsus: i tell people at work all the time their code is garbage
2021-07-05 22:40:46	kurahaupo	Khaytsus: please tell me that was a typo
2021-07-05 22:40:49	Khaytsus	[[R]]: I mean, I try to adult at work
2021-07-05 22:41:39	-->	WishBoy (~WishBoy@user/wishboy) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 22:42:21	kurahaupo	Khaytsus: Sometimes the opinion is most politely expressed by writing replacement code
2021-07-05 22:42:29	loganlee	hey guys
2021-07-05 22:42:50	loganlee	<---- ubuntu happy user
2021-07-05 22:43:07	[[R]]	Khaytsus: the other day someone told me about a new shell fucntion... and i was like "Well taht name is silly"
2021-07-05 22:43:30	c705	[[R]]: you're silly
2021-07-05 22:43:39	c705	also smelly
2021-07-05 22:43:54	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-05 22:44:15	curdlesnoot	we're going to a function ... yeah, yeah, yeah
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2021-07-05 22:44:48	autopsy	Fucktion function conjunction function() { int jar, char argv;
2021-07-05 22:45:18	autopsy	What was the name?
2021-07-05 22:45:22	autopsy	Tellus.
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2021-07-05 22:45:45	beltwaybob	chat
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2021-07-05 22:47:18	autopsy	[[R]] what was the name of the conjunction function name() {};
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2021-07-05 22:49:23	kurahaupo	autopsy: Among the more interesting functions in my .bashrc is one that starts: complete (){ …
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2021-07-05 22:50:26	Dagmar	Khaytus: THe thing to do when you encounter a script loaded with redundancy is to say "Wow.  Look at all the potential bugs we can eliminate!  This is great!"
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2021-07-05 22:50:53	Dagmar	And then you can point to the things like the recent polkit vulnerability and say "And now we can be sure that won't happen _here_!"
2021-07-05 22:51:23	Dagmar	(That is the same uid check was being done four in four different places, but *one* was different and wrong.)
2021-07-05 22:51:44	Dagmar	EVery redunant line of code should be viewed as a potential bug.
2021-07-05 22:51:58	Dagmar	Therefore removal of redundant codepaths is always a code improvement.
2021-07-05 22:52:24	Dagmar	Theyv'e got this weird "no negative statements" thing going on at the office
2021-07-05 22:52:27	Dagmar	I've just embraced it
2021-07-05 22:52:48	beltwaybob	So you're not allowed to use words like "gaped"?
2021-07-05 22:52:52	beltwaybob	A gape is by definition a hole, a lack
2021-07-05 22:52:55	beltwaybob	A negativity
2021-07-05 22:53:05	Dagmar	Can't call something "hammered s**tcode"
2021-07-05 22:53:15	kurahaupo	"Look at all this marvelous scope for improvement!"
2021-07-05 22:53:16	Dagmar	You call it "ready for phenomenal improvement"
2021-07-05 22:53:24	Dagmar	Ding ding!  You've got it!
2021-07-05 22:53:25	kurahaupo	*snap*
2021-07-05 22:53:34	phoenixes	i suppose you can't say its riddled with bugs
2021-07-05 22:53:42	beltwaybob	written by a retard
2021-07-05 22:53:52	kurahaupo	And gaps are "spaces for …"
2021-07-05 22:54:21	Dagmar	"I could code something better while passed out drunk.  We're throwing it out and starting over." becomes "great potential for generational improvement"
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2021-07-05 22:54:29	kurahaupo	phoenixes: "It's 52% bug-free!!"
2021-07-05 22:54:32	-->	boxelephant (~boxelepha@d192-24-108-69.col.wideopenwest.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 22:54:43	kurahaupo	(only 48% of lines have bugs in them)
2021-07-05 22:55:43	Dagmar	I'm keeping 'cancerCode' tho'
2021-07-05 22:55:44	kurahaupo	It's like buying "10% fat-free!!" lard
2021-07-05 22:55:45	beltwaybob	creative use of the semicolon
2021-07-05 22:55:54	beltwaybob	creative use of tabs
2021-07-05 22:56:00	Dagmar	kurahaupo: "Made with less than 5% fruit juice!"
2021-07-05 22:56:27	kurahaupo	This fish contains less that 2% Hg
2021-07-05 22:56:32	kurahaupo	*than
2021-07-05 22:56:54	neshpion	#define ^J ;
2021-07-05 22:57:06	Dagmar	That would mean there's almost 40 times as much dihydrogen monoxide in it
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2021-07-05 22:57:19	beltwaybob	or it could be whiskey
2021-07-05 22:57:22	beltwaybob	no reason it has to be water
2021-07-05 22:57:50	Dagmar	neshpion: Oh no.  The thing to do is push a function into their editor that right-justifes semi-colons.
2021-07-05 22:58:26	neshpion	Dagmar: don't forget right-justified curly braces
2021-07-05 22:58:51	beltwaybob	that doesnt even make sense :(
2021-07-05 22:58:59	Dagmar	Just the semi colons has the potential to hit someone in the same place as if they'd seen someone walking down the street with no skin
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2021-07-05 22:59:38	kurahaupo	Apparently although the Ballmer Peak is a myth, at certain ranges of BAC the bugs-per-line-written ratio is lower than stone cold sober, but the bug-free lines per day is worse
2021-07-05 22:59:46	neshpion	you don't go down the street skinless?
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2021-07-05 23:00:15	Dagmar	Only when Cenobites are chasing me
2021-07-05 23:00:17	kurahaupo	Arguably the bugs written is 0% when you're actually passed out
2021-07-05 23:00:18	rascul	dihydrogen monoxide is pretty bad
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2021-07-05 23:00:27	rascul	https://dhmo.org/facts.html
2021-07-05 23:00:43	Dagmar	THe mortality rate from long-term exposure is 100%
2021-07-05 23:00:48	kurahaupo	rascul: yeah, it's been found at most murders
2021-07-05 23:00:50	beltwaybob	well that is why you cant take it all the time
2021-07-05 23:00:52	beltwaybob	little sips
2021-07-05 23:00:55	neshpion	kurahaupo: oddly enough, my code that has bugs is often the code i'm sure will work, and the code i'm sure will fail often does exactly what i hoped it would do
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2021-07-05 23:01:04	neshpion	in either case, i'm left wondering why
2021-07-05 23:01:11	beltwaybob	you should have to prove it will work first
2021-07-05 23:01:28	Dagmar	That's no bueno.  It's a violation of one of Joe's rules
2021-07-05 23:02:14	kurahaupo	beltwaybob: that's the NASA approach to coding, where they consider 6 lines of code per day to be rocking fast coding
2021-07-05 23:02:27	<--	expert975 (~expert975@user/expert975) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 23:02:51	beltwaybob	It depends on how soon it has to be done
2021-07-05 23:02:56	beltwaybob	And how long you can be employed doing it for.
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2021-07-05 23:03:01	kurahaupo	Mind you, when a bug can cost a billion dollars - or lives - I'm not sure I object
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2021-07-05 23:03:13	beltwaybob	well, there are always more astronauts
2021-07-05 23:03:20	beltwaybob	I mean, you are going to have some failures
2021-07-05 23:03:22	beltwaybob	Hopefully not too many
2021-07-05 23:03:38	beltwaybob	USA should go back to the moon
2021-07-05 23:03:38	kurahaupo	Ariane V anyone?
2021-07-05 23:03:54	beltwaybob	imagine a multi-cultural team of Americans landing on the moon, like a coca cola ad!
2021-07-05 23:03:58	kurahaupo	beltwaybob: yes, the whole country should move there and stay there
2021-07-05 23:03:59	Dagmar	Things being propelled by a hundred thousand pounds of high explosives don't get to have "minor" failures
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2021-07-05 23:04:28	neshpion	kurahaupo: and paint advertisements on it
2021-07-05 23:04:39	rascul	i'll move to the moon as long as i can grow moon weed
2021-07-05 23:04:49	rascul	i hear the internet can be pretty fast
2021-07-05 23:04:53	neshpion	hehe, moon shrooms
2021-07-05 23:05:02	kurahaupo	neshpion: As long as they're on the far side, I don't care
2021-07-05 23:05:17	rascul	https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/you-can-now-get-high-speed-internet-moon-180951614/
2021-07-05 23:05:17	neshpion	kurahaupo: no, the close side, it's the premium ad space
2021-07-05 23:05:25	beltwaybob	Dagmar: well, depending on the location of the failure, it is more or less dangerous
2021-07-05 23:05:37	beltwaybob	Dagmar: Like, if it is right at takeoff, or if it is in orbit, etc.
2021-07-05 23:05:40	<--	expert975 (~expert975@user/expert975) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-05 23:05:42	beltwaybob	And what sort of failure
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2021-07-05 23:05:50	rascul	622 megabits per second in 2014
2021-07-05 23:05:53	beltwaybob	Like, a minor failure might be a light not turning on
2021-07-05 23:06:00	aaro	still talking about the moon?! we're on mars now
2021-07-05 23:06:01	Dagmar	beltwaybob: At pretty much any time
2021-07-05 23:06:10	Dagmar	Gahh... reporters... "can be streamed back to Earth in near real time"
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2021-07-05 23:06:12	rascul	aaro how fast is mars internet though?
2021-07-05 23:06:22	kurahaupo	neshpion: Adv on far side: "free to take away, 8bn slaves on the planet next door"
2021-07-05 23:06:23	beltwaybob	On the moon people can have amazing experiences
2021-07-05 23:06:30	Dagmar	I guess they've decided that lasers move faster than radio waves
2021-07-05 23:06:32	beltwaybob	Imagine living on a Moon Base
2021-07-05 23:06:57	beltwaybob	We must invest in a moon mission
2021-07-05 23:06:58	rascul	i wonder if starlink goes to the moon yet
2021-07-05 23:07:00	kurahaupo	beltwaybob: I'm sure I'd rather live IN it, where I can breathe
2021-07-05 23:07:09	Dagmar	rascul: It will likely never go to the moon
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2021-07-05 23:07:25	Dagmar	Those things are just barely high up enough to be considered in orbit
2021-07-05 23:07:26	rascul	i probably won't either
2021-07-05 23:07:28	beltwaybob	kurahaupo: well, you talk about living on a base, but it usually means IN a structure on a base
2021-07-05 23:07:37	c705	rascul: why not
2021-07-05 23:07:40	beltwaybob	kurahaupo: so get ready to live IN A STRUCTURE ON A BASE
2021-07-05 23:07:44	kurahaupo	Let's volunteer Ragesan to live on the far side of the moon
2021-07-05 23:07:51	neshpion	moon bbq at my moon base
2021-07-05 23:07:53	beltwaybob	In this sense the "base" is the figurative area of the encampment, it is not necessarily a pedestal.
2021-07-05 23:07:59	Dagmar	Ther'es also that much of _the point_ of Starlink is that keeping the satellites close reduces latency because _physics_
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2021-07-05 23:08:12	beltwaybob	You can raise mooncows for moonbbqs.
2021-07-05 23:08:22	beltwaybob	Imagine how tender the beef would be due to the lower gravity
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2021-07-05 23:08:32	rascul	c705 there probably isn't any beer there
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2021-07-05 23:08:43	rascul	and i imagine it takes awhile to get to the beer store
2021-07-05 23:08:56	 *	neshpion begins picturing long-legged stretchy moon cows that look like giant bovine daddy longlegs
2021-07-05 23:09:04	beltwaybob	you want a lot of meat on them
2021-07-05 23:09:05	c705	rascul: there's the moonbeer
2021-07-05 23:09:09	beltwaybob	its the staple food of the moon base
2021-07-05 23:09:11	beltwaybob	the mooncow
2021-07-05 23:09:19	Dagmar	neshpion: You should consider pitching that to David Firth
2021-07-05 23:09:26	beltwaybob	you cant waste moongrain on beer
2021-07-05 23:09:32	beltwaybob	you have to feed it to the mooncow
2021-07-05 23:09:42	loganlee	beltwaybob: due to low gravity cow won't have much muscle so not much meat
2021-07-05 23:09:53	neshpion	Dagmar: now that i think of it, cyriak has already done something similar
2021-07-05 23:09:57	beltwaybob	loganlee: But the juices will drip right off your chin
2021-07-05 23:10:03	beltwaybob	loganlee: you could feed them like foie gras
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2021-07-05 23:10:32	Dagmar	neshpion: But has he been banned from Tiktok?
2021-07-05 23:10:51	neshpion	i don't know anything about tiktok except for the compilations i see on youtube
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2021-07-05 23:11:06	Dagmar	If your'e thinking "It looks like trash" then you'd be right
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2021-07-05 23:11:28	Dagmar	Being permabanned from Tiktok is like the inverse of winning an awar
2021-07-05 23:11:29	Dagmar	d
2021-07-05 23:11:33	coroner	It looks like a dead bird in Python and shell patched together to do shit.
2021-07-05 23:11:36	Dagmar	Maybe the obverse.
2021-07-05 23:11:43	beltwaybob	obverse?
2021-07-05 23:11:44	Dagmar	It's a seal of approval that one's work isn't crap.
2021-07-05 23:11:59	neshpion	coroner: sounds like modern programming on *nix to me
2021-07-05 23:12:01	beltwaybob	how does that make any sense
2021-07-05 23:12:07	rascul	my work is mostly wood
2021-07-05 23:12:17	twainwek	Did you know that KDE comes with Night Color Control? Amazing.
2021-07-05 23:12:17	beltwaybob	DO you make furniture?
2021-07-05 23:12:18	beltwaybob	boats?
2021-07-05 23:12:23	rascul	sometimes dirt, or metal, but on occasion it's cow crap
2021-07-05 23:12:27	neshpion	boat furniture?
2021-07-05 23:12:34	beltwaybob	furniture boats
2021-07-05 23:12:36	rascul	i have made some furniture, but not for boats (that i'm aware of)
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2021-07-05 23:12:45	coroner	Yep neshpion, its all shell C and Python kadischi.
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2021-07-05 23:12:47	beltwaybob	you could make abed shaped like a boat
2021-07-05 23:12:52	coroner	And some perl neshpoion.
2021-07-05 23:12:55	rascul	i could
2021-07-05 23:12:57	beltwaybob	whats wrong with C?
2021-07-05 23:13:06	beltwaybob	make a bed shaped like a boat
2021-07-05 23:13:09	beltwaybob	guaranteed sale
2021-07-05 23:13:12	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Googling the term 'obversion' won't make it any less not confusing
2021-07-05 23:13:21	beltwaybob	Dagmar: its not the term, its just your use of it
2021-07-05 23:13:24	beltwaybob	im not sure that has an obverse
2021-07-05 23:13:32	coroner	C binaries execs some perl, that in turn calls a python main.py and then it drops basck to shell and executes find_swap.c
2021-07-05 23:13:52	Dagmar	If it were inversion it would be an assurance that the work was deemed horrible by a cadre of conoisseurs
2021-07-05 23:13:54	coroner	eject.c was good.
2021-07-05 23:14:03	beltwaybob	nothing wrong with that if it works
2021-07-05 23:14:08	rascul	coroner that sounds kinda horrible
2021-07-05 23:14:09	coroner	It does.
2021-07-05 23:14:15	coroner	It worked good still does.
2021-07-05 23:14:17	beltwaybob	sounds like a lot of fun
2021-07-05 23:14:19	Dagmar	An obversion would be the work proven to be not garbage by a panel of experts in trash
2021-07-05 23:14:23	coroner	Still works and it was written 9in Fedora 1
2021-07-05 23:14:30	beltwaybob	whats an expert?
2021-07-05 23:14:39	Dagmar	Someone who charges more per hour
2021-07-05 23:14:45	rascul	someone who used to be a pert
2021-07-05 23:14:53	beltwaybob	ex is an unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure, so an expert is an unknown drip under pressure
2021-07-05 23:15:14	 *	neshpion spurts
2021-07-05 23:15:14	coroner	Kadischiu 9isisis what livecd-media-creator bases all of its operations on in Fedora today,,,,, now Feedora isd a damn Live DVD U*SB workstation and server the two spins we did in Kadischi.
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2021-07-05 23:15:30	Sauvin	A girl who used to have a "pert" nose, hence "ex" pert.
2021-07-05 23:15:53	 *	neshpion searches for 'pert noses' to see if that's a real thing
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2021-07-05 23:16:13	Sauvin	I've been speaking English for nearly fifty years. Trust me.
2021-07-05 23:16:21	coroner	Anaconda was patched heavily to accept the SELinux uumnder read only interface and dmapper device mappoer mapdev.
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2021-07-05 23:16:42	coroner	We had eject.c find_swap.c all ecexecuting from the LiveDVD rc-local.shell
2021-07-05 23:16:47	<--	misspwn (~misspwn@user/misspwn) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-05 23:16:50	rascul	"b. Small or firm and well-formed: a pert nose."   https://www.thefreedictionary.com/pert
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2021-07-05 23:17:07	c705	rascul: you're a nose
2021-07-05 23:17:12	 *	rascul noses c705
2021-07-05 23:17:16	beltwaybob	an expert is not pert
2021-07-05 23:17:24	rascul	hence the "ex"
2021-07-05 23:17:25	neshpion	oh my, then what happened Sauvin to their pert noses?  did they get hit in the face?  :(
2021-07-05 23:17:27	beltwaybob	a smaller firm
2021-07-05 23:17:45	Sauvin	Well, my first thought didn't run to "noses".
2021-07-05 23:17:53	beltwaybob	im confused
2021-07-05 23:18:00	neshpion	you're the one who said anything about noses first
2021-07-05 23:18:02	beltwaybob	are you trying to set up another interpretation?
2021-07-05 23:18:14	rascul	there is only one interpretation
2021-07-05 23:18:20	beltwaybob	that is correct
2021-07-05 23:18:25	beltwaybob	there is only one correct interpretation
2021-07-05 23:18:29	beltwaybob	we will find it and be done
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2021-07-05 23:19:04	Sauvin	I'm trying to suggest that under the currently prevalent moral, social and legal climates my first thought would have been deemed "unacceptable" in polite or mixed company.
2021-07-05 23:19:19	beltwaybob	Oh
2021-07-05 23:19:21	beltwaybob	why?
2021-07-05 23:19:30	beltwaybob	Are you some sort of pervert
2021-07-05 23:19:38	neshpion	what about base, homogeneously gendered company?
2021-07-05 23:20:04	Sauvin	Oh, when it's just us lowbrow trogs, yeah, we can talk about jahoobies all we want.
2021-07-05 23:20:08	beltwaybob	one floor of women, then another floor of men.
2021-07-05 23:20:17	beltwaybob	like a cake
2021-07-05 23:20:19	 *	neshpion searches for jahoobies to see if that's a real thing
2021-07-05 23:20:21	beltwaybob	the men are the icing on top
2021-07-05 23:20:23	c705	i'll be on the floor with the men
2021-07-05 23:20:32	rascul	i'll be at the bar
2021-07-05 23:20:41	neshpion	beltwaybob: hehe, icing
2021-07-05 23:20:46	Sauvin	When men have icing on top, it's time to find someplace else to be.
2021-07-05 23:20:47	beltwaybob	It could be have a glass floor
2021-07-05 23:20:59	beltwaybob	That way the women could look up and see the men
2021-07-05 23:21:00	loganlee	<------ running erc
2021-07-05 23:21:21	Sauvin	Loganlee has icing on his keyboard
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2021-07-05 23:21:28	rascul	running is tiring, i prefer walking or riding or driving
2021-07-05 23:21:34	beltwaybob	frosting is easy to make
2021-07-05 23:21:36	neshpion	beltwaybob: is this what they mean by 'glass ceiling'?
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2021-07-05 23:21:48	beltwaybob	neshpion: well, that is what it would be called, informally.
2021-07-05 23:22:05	beltwaybob	Imagine looking up and seeing man ass all day long.
2021-07-05 23:22:08	neshpion	i would call it a building code violation
2021-07-05 23:22:18	beltwaybob	why?
2021-07-05 23:22:30	beltwaybob	whats wrong with a glass ceiling
2021-07-05 23:22:33	 *	neshpion frantically searches for building codes that prohibit floors made out of glass
2021-07-05 23:22:57	beltwaybob	And it has a big mural about the marble staircase to the second floor "MEN ONLY"
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2021-07-05 23:23:31	beltwaybob	It shows men doing manly things like hunting, fishing, building huts, surveying fields, building railway trestles, etc.
2021-07-05 23:23:44	c705	beltwaybob: get to the point
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2021-07-05 23:23:51	beltwaybob	I am at the point
2021-07-05 23:23:57	beltwaybob	It's a grand building
2021-07-05 23:24:10	beltwaybob	And it has a gigantic mural surmounted by the phrase "MEN ONLY"
2021-07-05 23:24:23	neshpion	but how can the floor be made out of ceiling?
2021-07-05 23:24:27	beltwaybob	This mural leads to the second floor, where the men work on a glass ceiling, suspending themselves above the heads of the women below.
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2021-07-05 23:24:28	c705	seek help
2021-07-05 23:24:39	 *	neshpion helps
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2021-07-05 23:25:11	beltwaybob	neshpion: well, imagine you are standing on a plane, it is the floor. But if there is another plane 10 feet below that plane, to someone standing on that plane, your floor is their ceiling.
2021-07-05 23:25:21	beltwaybob	So the upper plane is made of glass
2021-07-05 23:25:27	beltwaybob	That is the "glass ceiling" or "glass floor"
2021-07-05 23:25:37	neshpion	this talk about standing on planes is ridiculous, i'd be standing *inside* the plane
2021-07-05 23:25:38	beltwaybob	The women are on the lower plane, 10 ft below.
2021-07-05 23:25:48	beltwaybob	no, like a square
2021-07-05 23:25:53	beltwaybob	not an engine
2021-07-05 23:25:56	neshpion	you're a square
2021-07-05 23:25:59	neshpion	[ ]
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2021-07-05 23:26:00	neshpion	^ you
2021-07-05 23:26:02	beltwaybob	whoa
2021-07-05 23:26:05	beltwaybob	thats not quite square
2021-07-05 23:26:06	beltwaybob	innit
2021-07-05 23:26:10	neshpion	>.>
2021-07-05 23:26:31	beltwaybob	Anyway, this patentable device sequesters women and their menstrual discharges from the men
2021-07-05 23:26:49	beltwaybob	In this day and age of integrating women into the workplace, why not create a separate paddock, to contain the outbreak of any diseases?
2021-07-05 23:26:54	neshpion	i thought the discharges themselves did well enough at sequestering them from each other
2021-07-05 23:27:12	beltwaybob	The paddock model means that they are kept inside overnight.
2021-07-05 23:27:46	<--	sheepduck (~sheepduck@user/sheepduck) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-05 23:27:58	beltwaybob	Imagine if your restaurant or car dealership could contain its female talent in a self-contained pod
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2021-07-05 23:28:10	beltwaybob	You could ensure that they would not get pregnant, which would cost you downtime
2021-07-05 23:28:22	schillingklaus	just trash systemd(isease), the most contagious peril of all
2021-07-05 23:28:31	neshpion	i'm not sure that if my females were kept in a paddock that they would remain unpregnant
2021-07-05 23:28:48	beltwaybob	There are no men in the paddock
2021-07-05 23:28:52	beltwaybob	it's totally operated by women
2021-07-05 23:28:57	beltwaybob	so theres no opportunity for them to get pregnant
2021-07-05 23:29:03	beltwaybob	its 6 hours of sleep and 18 hours of work
2021-07-05 23:29:23	neshpion	the mural says "MEN ONLY" on the way up, but not "WOMEN ONLY" on the way down, does it?
2021-07-05 23:29:29	beltwaybob	No
2021-07-05 23:29:35	beltwaybob	The men are allowed to stroll around downstrairs.
2021-07-05 23:29:42	neshpion	right, that's what i mean
2021-07-05 23:29:54	beltwaybob	What's wrong with that?
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2021-07-05 23:30:03	neshpion	there can be pregnancies after all
2021-07-05 23:30:04	beltwaybob	Those men have been vetted by the company
2021-07-05 23:30:10	beltwaybob	that breeding can be encouraged
2021-07-05 23:30:18	beltwaybob	Obviously you need an outlet for the company talent, they have to breed.
2021-07-05 23:30:24	beltwaybob	That way you can continue to employ their children.
2021-07-05 23:30:30	neshpion	they can go to their own paddock-women
2021-07-05 23:30:34	neshpion	i'm keeping mine
2021-07-05 23:30:45	beltwaybob	But you will build a home-paddock?
2021-07-05 23:30:50	ayecee	o_O
2021-07-05 23:30:58	neshpion	we work from home, so it's already a home-paddock
2021-07-05 23:31:06	neshpion	or do we home from work...?
2021-07-05 23:31:08	beltwaybob	WHy don't more companies take an active interest in the breeding of future employees
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2021-07-05 23:31:33	[[R]]	ayecee: what the hell is going on
2021-07-05 23:31:35	ayecee	a lack of vision and confidence in the company's future
2021-07-05 23:31:35	beltwaybob	imagine if you could have a department that settled which employees should reproduce
2021-07-05 23:31:45	ayecee	[[R]]: i am also what the hell
2021-07-05 23:31:51	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-05 23:31:57	neshpion	it's gettin all kinds of plato's republic up in here
2021-07-05 23:32:14	beltwaybob	You could construct a social media app to encourage the best to breed with the best
2021-07-05 23:32:19	beltwaybob	You could have people upvote people
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2021-07-05 23:32:25	beltwaybob	And then the most upvoted people have to reproduce
2021-07-05 23:32:33	Sauvin	Yeah, know what? We have an -offtopic channel, and a lot of this chatter looks like it'd fit in better there.
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2021-07-05 23:32:37	neshpion	no, i'm pretty sure the best implementation of that is to breed only the ones who choose not to use the social media app
2021-07-05 23:32:42	neshpion	that's a honey pot for those who must be culled
2021-07-05 23:32:51	beltwaybob	how will you ever find them to breed them?
2021-07-05 23:32:59	beltwaybob	My university used to have a dog breeding program
2021-07-05 23:33:03	beltwaybob	they got rid of it in the 1950s
2021-07-05 23:33:05	ayecee	easy. they're the ones left after the cull.
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2021-07-05 23:33:43	beltwaybob	Imagine being able to do a bachelors degree in dog breeding
2021-07-05 23:33:47	beltwaybob	you learn how to breed the dogs
2021-07-05 23:33:51	beltwaybob	how to collect stool samples
2021-07-05 23:33:53	beltwaybob	etc.
2021-07-05 23:33:54	ayecee	okay man come on
2021-07-05 23:33:56	ayecee	stahp
2021-07-05 23:34:20	Sauvin	Hrm... a barkalaureate in mutt....
2021-07-05 23:34:26	bparker	a wat
2021-07-05 23:34:29	ayecee	a BM
2021-07-05 23:34:33	Sauvin	:D
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2021-07-05 23:39:27	ash666	konversation?
2021-07-05 23:39:31	JohnDoe2	doesn't look like I can figure this out on my own. I'm trying to mount an nfs share - client is macOS and server is fedora 34. Firewall is set to ACCEPT for INPUT, macOS can connect but it mounts the export as read-only no matter what options I give it :(
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2021-07-05 23:40:06	Eureka	Konversation
2021-07-05 23:40:13	ayecee	if it can connect at all, it's not a firewall thing :D
2021-07-05 23:40:25	 *	[[R]] puts up his firewall
2021-07-05 23:40:29	ayecee	how are you mounting it, and what shows it's read only
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2021-07-05 23:41:54	 *	neshpion fires viruses at [[R]] damaging his starboard firewall by 20%
2021-07-05 23:42:18	ayecee	JohnDoe2: my attention span is ticking
2021-07-05 23:42:19	 *	[[R]] deploys the ablative firewall
2021-07-05 23:42:28	[[R]]	ayecee: 🎶 tick tock on the clock...
2021-07-05 23:42:33	ash666	O.O
2021-07-05 23:42:43	Eureka	Seeking new Operating system
2021-07-05 23:42:49	Eureka	currently using Lubuntu 20.04 LTS
2021-07-05 23:42:54	neshpion	artix :DDDD
2021-07-05 23:42:56	Eureka	Focus on security and
2021-07-05 23:42:58	ash666	hold off till w11 8]
2021-07-05 23:43:05	neshpion	ew
2021-07-05 23:43:10	ash666	8D
2021-07-05 23:43:16	<--	monoxane (~monoxane@119-18-17-227.771211.mel.static.aussiebb.net) has quit (Quit: estoy fuera)
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2021-07-05 23:43:18	neshpion	"Microsoft MacOS"
2021-07-05 23:43:23	beltwaybob	8==)
2021-07-05 23:43:26	-->	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 23:43:28	[[R]]	Eureka: what is insecure about ubuntu?
2021-07-05 23:43:32	JohnDoe2	ayecee my bad, mounting with -o rw, and it ends up mounted as 1000:1000 but that's not the macOS user that mounts it. exported as *(rw,all_squash,insecure)
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2021-07-05 23:44:02	Eureka	Just seeking new OS's
2021-07-05 23:44:03	ayecee	JohnDoe2: i don't understand. what shows it's read-only?
2021-07-05 23:44:03	beltwaybob	Eureka: FreeBSD
2021-07-05 23:44:06	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@203.188.230.199) has joined #linux
2021-07-05 23:44:07	Eureka	Something open source
2021-07-05 23:44:08	schillingklaus	ubuntu uses systemd and snap, which leads to incessant corruption
2021-07-05 23:44:09	ash666	make your own os o.o?
2021-07-05 23:44:10	Eureka	and secure, updated
2021-07-05 23:44:13	JohnDoe2	ayecee the mount in macOS
2021-07-05 23:44:14	pnbeast	Eureka, can you try to press the enter key more often?  It's hard for my pupils to read so many characters in a row without moving my whole eyes.
2021-07-05 23:44:23	sumthing1980	my ssd may be failing how can I do a thorough check? it is fs root
2021-07-05 23:44:24	ayecee	JohnDoe2: like, read-only because of permissions?
2021-07-05 23:44:26	[[R]]	Eureka: you think ubuntu isnt open source?
2021-07-05 23:44:35	Sauvin	schillingklaus, I've been using Ubuntu for years and have not noticed any corruption.
2021-07-05 23:44:46	ayecee	JohnDoe2: what should the owner be instead?
2021-07-05 23:44:47	JohnDoe2	ayecee I don't quite know why, could be apparmor?
2021-07-05 23:44:49	Eureka	I installed a snap app MineTest game using Snap on Lubuntu
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2021-07-05 23:44:54	Eureka	and it doesnt open
2021-07-05 23:45:01	ayecee	JohnDoe2: what could be apparmor? i'm not following you.
2021-07-05 23:45:02	JohnDoe2	ayecee owner should be 501:20
2021-07-05 23:45:03	[[R]]	Eureka: so you dont want to use ubuntu anymore because of that?
2021-07-05 23:45:23	ayecee	JohnDoe2: what would set the owner to 501:20, if that's not what it is on the server?
2021-07-05 23:45:24	Eureka	Well
2021-07-05 23:45:27	JohnDoe2	ayecee apparmor on fedora 34 ... which is the host exporting the share
2021-07-05 23:45:34	Sauvin	What happens when you try to "open" it?
2021-07-05 23:45:35	Eureka	Im always looking for new OSs
2021-07-05 23:45:42	[[R]]	Eureka: what do you think its going to be different?
2021-07-05 23:45:43	ayecee	JohnDoe2: i know what apparmor is, i don't know how it connects to what you're seeing
2021-07-05 23:45:46	loganlee	Eureka: i stick with ubuntu
2021-07-05 23:45:52	neshpion	Eureka: just watch a bunch of DistroTube or something
2021-07-05 23:45:55	Eureka	I'll probably stay with Lubuntu also
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2021-07-05 23:46:04	[[R]]	Eureka: sounds like a plan
2021-07-05 23:46:08	Eureka	Does anybody know how to get MineTest working with Lubuntu
2021-07-05 23:46:22	ayecee	JohnDoe2: what you're seeing sounds like normal nfs behavior
2021-07-05 23:46:33	JohnDoe2	ayecee cool, how do I make it abnormal now?
2021-07-05 23:46:53	Sauvin	Eureka, what happens when you try to "open" it?
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2021-07-05 23:48:12	ayecee	JohnDoe2: nfs4 has user id mapping apparently, though the usernames on the client and server would have to be the same
2021-07-05 23:48:19	ayecee	i don't know how to set that up.
2021-07-05 23:48:38	ayecee	an alternative would be to change the user ids on either the client or server so they match.
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2021-07-05 23:49:16	JohnDoe2	ayecee I see, okay. Thank you much!
2021-07-05 23:49:34	ayecee	nfs was typically used in environments where users had the same id on multiple machines via nis/yp, but that's not really a thing anymore.
2021-07-05 23:49:50	ayecee	so they have to be made to match some other way
2021-07-05 23:50:00	beltwaybob	I mostly used NFS to install slackware over a network
2021-07-05 23:50:07	Eureka	the window opens for a second then closes
2021-07-05 23:50:12	beltwaybob	I could put it into something w/o a CD-ROM
2021-07-05 23:50:18	Eureka	the game window starts to open then crashed
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2021-07-05 23:51:28	ayecee	JohnDoe2: i guess you could also try setting anonuid and anongid parameters in the export, since you're using all_squash. i haven't seen that before.
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2021-07-05 23:51:53	JohnDoe2	understood. That's pretty cool though - didn't know about its origins, in my ignorance I thought "like samba" :D
2021-07-05 23:51:59	JohnDoe2	yes trying that
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2021-07-05 23:52:48	ayecee	weird that it would default to 1000:1000 for all_squash, the manpage says the anonymous id defaults to 65534:65534. something else must be setting it.
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2021-07-05 23:53:29	JohnDoe2	the anonuid and gid didn't change the user. I'm assuming it's because the folder shared is owned by 1000:1000 on fedora
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2021-07-05 23:53:53	ayecee	oh, like it didn't squash after all?
2021-07-05 23:53:55	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.1.37) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-05 23:55:18	JohnDoe2	apparently not 🤷‍♂️ that's ok I can always go samba
2021-07-05 23:55:30	ayecee	ok
2021-07-05 23:55:54	JohnDoe2	I appreciate your time ayecee
2021-07-05 23:55:59	ayecee	:)
2021-07-05 23:56:08	ash666	ur kinda quite o.o
2021-07-05 23:56:25	Eureka	hi
2021-07-05 23:56:34	Eureka	i install minetest but it doesnt open
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2021-07-05 23:58:56	ayecee	have you tried opening it
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2021-07-05 23:59:35	schillingklaus	of course eureka tried... it just doesn't work
2021-07-06 00:00:05	ayecee	oh ok
2021-07-06 00:00:37	Eureka	it opens, the closes
2021-07-06 00:00:40	Eureka	then*
2021-07-06 00:00:43	ayecee	see my followup was going to be, like, how did you try, and what happens when you try
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2021-07-06 00:01:10	neshpion	do you get any error messages?
2021-07-06 00:01:10	ayecee	but thanks for jumping in with the details schillingklaus
2021-07-06 00:01:32	Eureka	no errors
2021-07-06 00:01:49	neshpion	what if you run it from a terminal, do errors appear then?
2021-07-06 00:01:53	Eureka	insalled with snap, open, app tries to open, game window opens for a second
2021-07-06 00:02:58	<--	treethought (treethou@138.68.49.251) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:03:17	ayecee	okay so what happens when you run it from a terminal?
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2021-07-06 00:04:37	Eureka	im trying to install from flathub
2021-07-06 00:04:44	Eureka	it worked on a prior os with flathub
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2021-07-06 00:05:36	ayecee	it's not really interesting to hear about times and places it worked
2021-07-06 00:06:00	ayecee	that doesn't help to solve why it doesn't work now
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2021-07-06 00:06:54	loganlee	what game?
2021-07-06 00:06:54	ayecee	what could help to solve it is to say what happens when you run it from a terminal
2021-07-06 00:06:56	neshpion	so did you try executing the binary from terminal yet? sometimes stdout has things to say
2021-07-06 00:06:58	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.3.136) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:07:07	neshpion	maybe even stderr
2021-07-06 00:07:07	[[R]]	neshpion: stout? like a beer?
2021-07-06 00:07:55	neshpion	[[R]]: extra stout
2021-07-06 00:08:05	schillingklaus	doesn't lubuntu log error messages somewhere?
2021-07-06 00:08:17	<--	zeden (~zeden@user/zeden) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-07-06 00:08:32	Eureka	yes
2021-07-06 00:08:33	ayecee	do some research on that and get back to us
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2021-07-06 00:08:37	Eureka	flathub install worked
2021-07-06 00:09:41	 *	neshpion prefers roundhub
2021-07-06 00:09:43	ayecee	\o/
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2021-07-06 00:10:44	coroner	The shell parsing livemedia-create_mediums is all shell written by Jeremy Katz and Brian Lane and wwwodds AND MUTK
2021-07-06 00:11:20	<--	boxelephant (~boxelepha@d192-24-108-69.col.wideopenwest.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:11:25	coroner	SouythernGentlememnt did some work so did EvilBob and BobJensesns and Sonar Guy.
2021-07-06 00:11:45	coroner	They host the spions and the nightly rawhide livecd dvd composes nightly and the test suites.
2021-07-06 00:11:49	coroner	They are in #Fedora.
2021-07-06 00:11:58	<--	Guest53 (~textual@ool-43527ebe.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-07-06 00:12:22	coroner	I know all too well about gobby and DaMaestros work.
2021-07-06 00:12:31	ayecee	i don't know who any of these people are
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2021-07-06 00:12:42	ayecee	i'm assuming the names in this ad are people
2021-07-06 00:12:49	schillingklaus	are they co-developers of systemd?
2021-07-06 00:13:03	coroner	Ok well you dont know Fedora Unity and Redhat sundaram nottingham and Jeremy Katz andconda s writer creator mentor.
2021-07-06 00:13:03	neshpion	schismd
2021-07-06 00:13:14	ayecee	apparently not
2021-07-06 00:13:14	coroner	Yes schillingklaus
2021-07-06 00:13:46	coroner	I know all the guys at RedHat I worked with them for 6 years maintaining a packAGE.
2021-07-06 00:13:55	ayecee	oh, it's autopsy
2021-07-06 00:13:59	coroner	Its me.
2021-07-06 00:14:07	neshpion	packAGES!!!
2021-07-06 00:14:31	coroner	Yes RedHat IBM to the rescue lose it or leave it to Ubuntu or Debian to get older than crust on a dead bird bagel with habaneros deweep fried.
2021-07-06 00:14:41	coroner	Packages rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec
2021-07-06 00:14:45	coroner	fedora-makedev
2021-07-06 00:14:55	ayecee	stop babbling please
2021-07-06 00:15:02	coroner	rpmdev-buildroot
2021-07-06 00:15:09	coroner	But its Linux.Man.
2021-07-06 00:15:15	coroner	RedHat in fact.
2021-07-06 00:15:26	neshpion	go back to #fedora
2021-07-06 00:15:39	coroner	Ok.
2021-07-06 00:15:46	neshpion	whoah
2021-07-06 00:15:51	coroner	Bye. Then guys get a grip get a clue get off this chANNEL.
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2021-07-06 00:15:57	 *	neshpion looks at his hands
2021-07-06 00:15:59	coroner	Ok bye now /me goes away
2021-07-06 00:16:00	ayecee	don't fall for it, it's a bit
2021-07-06 00:16:03	 *	coroner goes far away
2021-07-06 00:16:11	neshpion	dang, just when i was starting to believe
2021-07-06 00:16:18	neshpion	good thing i didn't jump across
2021-07-06 00:16:29	ayecee	everyone falls the first time
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2021-07-06 00:19:09	Eureka	I wish I could play Halo 1 on Linux
2021-07-06 00:19:31	<--	SeedyROM (~TheCheat@97-115-40-13.ptld.qwest.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 00:20:14	 *	neshpion has blood gulch flashbacks
2021-07-06 00:20:16	loganlee	i just stick with civ 6
2021-07-06 00:20:40	coroner	neshpion, rpmbuild is easy you just modify the .spec file of the package it has Name Version Release: Source0: Patch0: Requires: make Provides: gcc %changelog %files %prepostun %posrtun %preun %postun %kdebug To access the macros for example its %{NAME} or %{CHANGELOG}
2021-07-06 00:21:05	Eureka	What are some good Linux compatable games
2021-07-06 00:21:12	Eureka	Without Wine, like, full linux compatability
2021-07-06 00:21:16	loganlee	Eureka: steam
2021-07-06 00:21:17	neshpion	overload
2021-07-06 00:21:22	Eureka	MineTest and Oldschool Runescape is all I have so far
2021-07-06 00:21:27	<--	kfrench (~kfrench@pool-68-134-35-74.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-07-06 00:21:33	schillingklaus	hangman, nethack, tetris, snake, adventure, moon-buggy,...
2021-07-06 00:21:34	coroner	Then rpmbuild -bb kernel.spec or patch.spec or gcc.spec
2021-07-06 00:21:48	ayecee	kerbal space program
2021-07-06 00:21:52	coroner	Then rpm -ivh RPMS/x86_64/gcc.rpm
2021-07-06 00:21:57	<--	magicSchlingel (~RatChat@45-23-179-157.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-06 00:21:59	neshpion	papers please
2021-07-06 00:22:05	ayecee	oxygen not included
2021-07-06 00:22:09	ayecee	rimworld
2021-07-06 00:22:10	neshpion	psychonauts
2021-07-06 00:22:17	neshpion	the talos principle
2021-07-06 00:22:22	ayecee	dwarf fortress
2021-07-06 00:22:23	neshpion	yooka-laylee
2021-07-06 00:22:28	schillingklaus	steam is capitalist-imperialist dung, and it only runs on glibc-based systems
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2021-07-06 00:22:49	ayecee	don't hold back, tell us what you really think
2021-07-06 00:23:21	schillingklaus	I just told you
2021-07-06 00:23:32	neshpion	glibc did nothing wrong
2021-07-06 00:23:35	ayecee	i was being facetious. what i really meant was shut up.
2021-07-06 00:23:49	Eureka	Does Steam work on Lubuntu?
2021-07-06 00:23:55	ayecee	probably yes
2021-07-06 00:23:56	loganlee	Eureka: yes
2021-07-06 00:24:18	neshpion	steam works anywhere there are paying useds
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2021-07-06 00:24:19	Eureka	Are there a lot of stable, free Linux apps
2021-07-06 00:24:23	neshpion	s/d/r/
2021-07-06 00:24:33	beltwaybob	yeah, like latex and gcc
2021-07-06 00:24:33	Eureka	free linux games
2021-07-06 00:24:34	neshpion	you mean on steam?
2021-07-06 00:24:38	Eureka	yes
2021-07-06 00:24:40	neshpion	you'd have to look
2021-07-06 00:24:46	Eureka	Does the Linux Steam have a lot of free gaems
2021-07-06 00:24:48	neshpion	it has its own search feature even
2021-07-06 00:24:57	neshpion	you could even go to store.steampowered.com to find out things without installing steam
2021-07-06 00:25:06	neshpion	it has whatever the steam platform has for free
2021-07-06 00:25:09	neshpion	it's literally just a client
2021-07-06 00:25:13	ayecee	viola, https://store.steampowered.com/linux
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2021-07-06 00:25:32	Eureka	I dont see the installer
2021-07-06 00:25:37	ayecee	now let's sort by price
2021-07-06 00:25:38	neshpion	use your package manager
2021-07-06 00:25:39	Eureka	for linux
2021-07-06 00:25:41	<--	ignis (~ignisf@user/ignis) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:25:53	ayecee	go to that page and click on "install steam"
2021-07-06 00:26:11	<--	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:26:16	Eureka	it brings to a .exe file
2021-07-06 00:26:22	neshpion	sudo apt install steam
2021-07-06 00:26:26	ayecee	go to that page from linux
2021-07-06 00:26:37	Eureka	https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.valvesoftware.Steam
2021-07-06 00:26:41	ayecee	windows user busted
2021-07-06 00:26:43	Eureka	I am on linux, still only shows Windows and Max
2021-07-06 00:26:54	neshpion	bloody MaxOS
2021-07-06 00:26:58	Eureka	Ill try the Steam Flathub install
2021-07-06 00:27:21	neshpion	you could try apt
2021-07-06 00:27:39	ayecee	does apt list it? i wouldn't think so, but i haven't checked
2021-07-06 00:27:46	Eureka	I trust flathub a bit more
2021-07-06 00:27:50	Eureka	Easier to search
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2021-07-06 00:27:56	ayecee	oh wow, steam-installer is a package
2021-07-06 00:28:02	neshpion	exit
2021-07-06 00:28:04	neshpion	oops
2021-07-06 00:28:08	neshpion	s/exit//
2021-07-06 00:28:11	neshpion	:D
2021-07-06 00:28:16	neshpion	you saw nothing
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2021-07-06 00:28:30	Eureka	HASHtag
2021-07-06 00:28:35	Eureka	Im smoking HASHtags
2021-07-06 00:28:48	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.11.45) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-06 00:28:50	Eureka	Use Tor Browser! Internet privacy!
2021-07-06 00:28:58	<--	boxelephant (~boxelepha@d192-24-108-69.col.wideopenwest.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-07-06 00:29:00	neshpion	as long as it's sha256 hash tags
2021-07-06 00:29:17	Sauvin	Tor? Privacy? The mibs got that covered, I'll bet. :D
2021-07-06 00:29:29	Eureka	Mibs??
2021-07-06 00:29:36	Eureka	my mibba?
2021-07-06 00:29:39	ayecee	some sort of snmp thing, i dunno
2021-07-06 00:30:05	Eureka	Use Tor Browser!!
2021-07-06 00:30:12	Sauvin	Men In Blace - American pop culture reference.
2021-07-06 00:30:18	Sauvin	Black, even!
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2021-07-06 00:30:43	ayecee	"97794 results match your search" https://store.steampowered.com/search/os=linux?sort_by=Price_ASC
2021-07-06 00:30:53	ayecee	oh i guess that's not just the free ones
2021-07-06 00:31:22	neshpion	you know what, i bet they list the ones that aren't linux native builds, but also that have a silver+ rating on protondb.com
2021-07-06 00:31:38	neshpion	"what? it 'runs' on linux!"
2021-07-06 00:31:54	ayecee	native, non-native, i just want to play
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2021-07-06 00:33:07	ayecee	now, how many of the free games are also good games, harder to say
2021-07-06 00:33:42	Eureka	Men in Black! A Man on Man story of Sodomy in anchient Serbia!
2021-07-06 00:34:02	ayecee	too soon, man
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2021-07-06 00:34:21	neshpion	>.>
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2021-07-06 00:35:25	Eureka	Oops, my Cat was walking on my keyboard
2021-07-06 00:35:41	neshpion	your cat has some weird fetishes
2021-07-06 00:36:01	ayecee	your cat.. may be an edgelord
2021-07-06 00:36:11	ayecee	i'm sorry to have to tell you that
2021-07-06 00:36:25	Eureka	edgelord, like, king of runescape pvp in edgeville free to play servers?
2021-07-06 00:37:00	ayecee	nope
2021-07-06 00:37:00	neshpion	hey there's nothing wrong with speccing noobs in edge
2021-07-06 00:37:43	Eureka	edgelord, how?
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2021-07-06 00:39:44	Eureka	People always call me names but then cant justify it
2021-07-06 00:39:56	Eureka	Edgelord, mentally unstalbe, king in bed, etc
2021-07-06 00:40:09	neshpion	i'm certain there's no justification for the latter
2021-07-06 00:40:17	beltwaybob	king of the pussy
2021-07-06 00:40:17	ayecee	you know, i thought it just had to do with getting attention with shock, but urbandictionary tells me that the type of shock is more different
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2021-07-06 00:40:58	bonsai	Hi do someone know a good sftp sofware with gui
2021-07-06 00:41:04	ayecee	bonsai: winscp
2021-07-06 00:41:07	bonsai	for linux
2021-07-06 00:41:12	ayecee	winscp is also for linux
2021-07-06 00:41:15	bonsai	oooo
2021-07-06 00:41:16	bonsai	coool
2021-07-06 00:41:20	bonsai	I using it on windows
2021-07-06 00:41:20	phoenixes	bonsai monkey
2021-07-06 00:41:23	neshpion	ayecee: so more like schadenfreude at the distress one causes others with shock?
2021-07-06 00:41:24	ayecee	or am i thinking of filezilla?
2021-07-06 00:41:37	ayecee	neshpion: they don't use that term either
2021-07-06 00:41:50	neshpion	you're gonna make me go look huh?
2021-07-06 00:41:53	ayecee	yep
2021-07-06 00:41:56	neshpion	>.>
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2021-07-06 00:42:23	madprops	how can I use the unix timestamp inside a command ..
2021-07-06 00:42:25	loganlee	filezilla would be it
2021-07-06 00:42:30	ayecee	i mean some of the defintions strike close, but i don't think it's quite the right flavor
2021-07-06 00:42:31	bonsai	tf there is no winscp for linux
2021-07-06 00:42:32	madprops	command -o /some/path_{timestamp}  ?
2021-07-06 00:42:34	bonsai	:f
2021-07-06 00:42:41	ayecee	bonsai: my bad, i'm thinking of filezilla
2021-07-06 00:42:42	<--	eroc1990 (~eroc1990@068-116-193-243.res.spectrum.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 00:42:43	loganlee	but nautilus in gnome 3 also can connect to sftp
2021-07-06 00:42:48	bonsai	ok ok
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2021-07-06 00:44:43	neshpion	ayecee: oh so.. simply the kinds of kids who make me hide my nietzsche books from guests :(
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2021-07-06 00:45:36	[[R]]	madprops: what timestamp
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2021-07-06 00:45:43	neshpion	the crimestamp
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2021-07-06 00:46:01	Eureka	i saw a crackhead the other day
2021-07-06 00:46:13	neshpion	w h o a h
2021-07-06 00:46:19	madprops	[[R]], was thinking unix, but I think this will do better (solved) $(date +%d-%m-%Y_%H-%M)
2021-07-06 00:46:22	loganlee	madprops: command -o /some/path_$(date)
2021-07-06 00:46:32	[[R]]	madprops: lol
2021-07-06 00:46:54	neshpion	my command builtin doesn't have an -o option
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2021-07-06 00:47:33	[[R]]	neshpion: 🎶 say it win't so
2021-07-06 00:47:44	neshpion	it so
2021-07-06 00:47:48	bonsai	ayecee: Ok thanks filezilla seems to be ok kind of what I was looking for
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2021-07-06 00:51:03	loganlee	gnome 3 supports conecting to sftp out of the box
2021-07-06 00:51:14	loganlee	i use it all the time connecting to my vps
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2021-07-06 01:13:56	coroner	Furry Canal is a fun one in the dark with a candle.
2021-07-06 01:14:07	coroner	Its a gamers game of cat.
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2021-07-06 01:16:21	coroner	cat in the hat
2021-07-06 01:16:28	coroner	dr suess mother goose
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2021-07-06 01:16:46	coroner	cheese and rice
2021-07-06 01:16:46	neshpion	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Pvi1XVm_s
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2021-07-06 01:19:50	Sauvin	coroner, go somewhere else and babble.
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2021-07-06 01:24:51	coroner	Sauvin, like WHERE THOUGH PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME??!!!
2021-07-06 01:25:01	 *	coroner goes away
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2021-07-06 01:25:13	Sauvin	Go spew in #linux-offtopic!
2021-07-06 01:25:22	Sauvin	Fewer rules!
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2021-07-06 02:18:39	angular_mike_	hello, no man's sky keeps crashing on my system/causing X to crash or the PC to reboot. this is my dmesg http://dpaste.com/5V6N34FF7 any ideas? I configured it as per gentoo wiki article
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2021-07-06 02:28:54	qqqhhh	hello which is the best compression algorithm for archiving of text log files? currently the best i know are xz, zstd, lrzip , is there something better? thanks. compression ratio is more important for me than speed.
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2021-07-06 02:29:33	Izem	any?
2021-07-06 02:29:36	Izem	it's just text
2021-07-06 02:29:53	The_Blode	.gz
2021-07-06 02:30:15	The_Blode	But Izem is right
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2021-07-06 02:30:46	Izem	did someone ping me?
2021-07-06 02:30:48	qqqhhh	gzip is terrible speed and compression wise - even lz4 is better
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2021-07-06 02:31:25	qqqhhh	zstd is better than lz4 both in speed and compression
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2021-07-06 02:31:57	Mikurynda	how do you check file encoding in linux?
2021-07-06 02:32:33	Izem	there is none
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2021-07-06 02:32:36	Izem	but file
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2021-07-06 02:32:54	Izem	err, a text editor? not sure what you are asking
2021-07-06 02:33:06	iLinux-OS-User	Try PeaZip and go for the highest compression.
2021-07-06 02:33:43	The_Blode	PeaZip is on Linux? I'll check that out thank you
2021-07-06 02:34:35	Mikurynda	Izem: so I can verify a bunch of files
2021-07-06 02:34:40	iLinux-OS-User	https://peazip.github.io/peazip-linux.html
2021-07-06 02:35:11	qqqhhh	Mikurynda: no filesystem i know of keeps that information, only the creator of the file knows the encoding. some file types store this, but you have to know the file type. sometimes the unicode BOM can be in text files but i think that is more of a windows specific thing.
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2021-07-06 02:37:22	The_Blode	Do I want the QT5 edition or the GTK edition.
2021-07-06 02:38:03	The_Blode	Mint offers flatpack but the download is 1.0GB apparently.
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2021-07-06 02:38:57	The_Blode	I went with GTK2
2021-07-06 02:39:16	iLinux-OS-User	;-)
2021-07-06 02:39:42	iLinux-OS-User	Try them both and see which appears best on your Linux Distro.
2021-07-06 02:39:50	The_Blode	Thanks iLinux-OS-User
2021-07-06 02:39:55	The_Blode	I do like the look of iLinux-OS-User
2021-07-06 02:40:16	lopid	ilinux again?
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2021-07-06 02:41:13	iLinux-OS-User	The_Blode You mean the look of iLinux OS?
2021-07-06 02:41:22	The_Blode	Yes I looked at the screenshots
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2021-07-06 02:42:04	oush9[m]	anyone know how to set a window name on launch? i know you can do it wit h xprop, given the id, but that's a hacky solution.
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2021-07-06 02:42:32	oush9[m]	i.e. i can get the id with wdctl, and then pipe it to xprop
2021-07-06 02:42:42	lopid	most decent programs accept x properties as command line arguments
2021-07-06 02:42:58	oush9[m]	but not all
2021-07-06 02:43:15	oush9[m]	e.g. firefox doesn't
2021-07-06 02:43:34	-->	velix (~velix@user/velix) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 02:44:03	lopid	"most"
2021-07-06 02:44:13	-->	angkat (~angkat@2a02:587:121d:ce82:406f:fcd5:7304:966e) has joined #linux
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2021-07-06 02:45:08	oush9[m]	right, but i need a reliable way. "most" is also probably an exaggeration, maybe about 10% of apps allow you to do that, i could be wrong though.
2021-07-06 02:45:28	lopid	yeah i'll change it to "some"
2021-07-06 02:45:46	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 02:46:03	oush9[m]	"a few"
2021-07-06 02:46:09	oush9[m]	"one that I know"
2021-07-06 02:46:12	oush9[m]	;)
2021-07-06 02:46:24	lopid	but i won't go that far, because "decent" is subjective
2021-07-06 02:46:58	<--	upsala (~zcb@185.213.155.160) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 02:47:09	oush9[m]	it's true, like some people think that vim is decent
2021-07-06 02:47:15	oush9[m]	<.<
2021-07-06 02:47:37	lopid	but not all
2021-07-06 02:47:51	 *	D__ coughs in Vim supremacy
2021-07-06 02:47:51	oush9[m]	"most"
2021-07-06 02:48:18	lopid	"one that i know". ie., "me"
2021-07-06 02:48:35	oush9[m]	so  true, emacs uber alles
2021-07-06 02:49:10	D__	I've never tried emacs for some reason
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2021-07-06 02:49:51	lopid	i'm still in it, couldn't find out how to exit
2021-07-06 02:49:53	oush9[m]	i actually like the interface, but single threaded, freezes a lot.
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2021-07-06 02:50:15	oush9[m]	lol, isn't that vi lopid ?
2021-07-06 02:50:40	D__	lopid: or maybe it's so good you don't want to exit
2021-07-06 02:51:22	lopid	to be fair i haven't been able to try any more key combinations due to my fingers being in knots
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2021-07-06 02:51:43	oush9[m]	you guys seen the nyxt browser? pretty early alpha, but has emacs interface with vim bindings. much like evil mode. it's backend agnostic and currently works for webkit and teh chromium engine (i think)
2021-07-06 02:51:59	oush9[m]	lopid: i literally have RSI because of emacs
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2021-07-06 02:52:11	D__	Nyxt? I've never tried that. Time to look it up
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2021-07-06 02:52:26	oush9[m]	yeah, it's about 6 months old
2021-07-06 02:52:36	oush9[m]	needs a good polish though
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2021-07-06 02:52:52	oush9[m]	and will support web extensions soon(-ish)
2021-07-06 02:52:58	<--	EriC^^ (~Eric@178.135.10.227) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 02:53:44	oush9[m]	don't get your hopes up, it's far from stable
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2021-07-06 02:55:14	 *	TheLinuxNerd bangs head against wall
2021-07-06 02:55:52	TheLinuxNerd	reinstalled my computer, lost SSH key to azure
2021-07-06 02:55:53	D__	Yeah, it looks very... new
2021-07-06 02:56:06	oush9[m]	yeah, one to watch
2021-07-06 02:56:08	TheLinuxNerd	user blocked, root blocked, no way, except for az vm run-command invoke ....
2021-07-06 02:56:34	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 02:56:44	D__	TheLinuxNerd: it's a sign from the gods of free software
2021-07-06 02:56:47	oush9[m]	perfect time to pentest your own server then TheLinuxNerd
2021-07-06 02:57:09	TheLinuxNerd	oush9[m] I told you I already got in
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2021-07-06 02:57:37	astronaut	hi.
2021-07-06 02:57:40	TheLinuxNerd	the problem now is generating a new SSH key and getting it to the server ...
2021-07-06 02:57:43	D__	astronaut: hello
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2021-07-06 02:58:55	astronaut	I am trying to backup all the files in /home using rsync. But I want to exclude some directory like `.cache` and tmp. How can I do that?
2021-07-06 03:00:25	astronaut	rsync -avr /home /run/media/whoami/backup
2021-07-06 03:00:51	TheLinuxNerd	please God, may the server have wget or curl installed :-(
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2021-07-06 03:02:20	loganlee	TheLinuxNerd: i got a vps i can do whatever i want with it
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2021-07-06 03:03:54	oush9[m]	astronaut:  `rsync --help | grep exclude`
2021-07-06 03:04:24	TheLinuxNerd	loganlee it's hardened, it's my personal server, I do not have the SSH key anymore and I do not use password auth
2021-07-06 03:04:36	-->	mave (~irc@user/mave) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 03:04:40	oush9[m]	i.e. `--exclude='.cache'` (use single quotes for globs '*')
2021-07-06 03:04:42	loganlee	ok
2021-07-06 03:04:52	TheLinuxNerd	loganlee so I'm trying to upload the new SSH public key from the Dashboard of azure
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2021-07-06 03:05:05	loganlee	good luck
2021-07-06 03:05:25	TheLinuxNerd	loganlee almost done used file.io to upload the public key
2021-07-06 03:05:40	TheLinuxNerd	and wget on the server to download it, cause I can only issue one liners
2021-07-06 03:05:52	TheLinuxNerd	PERFECT! .ssh/authorized_keys now has my key
2021-07-06 03:06:18	loganlee	:)
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2021-07-06 03:06:39	astronaut	oush9[m], --exclude=PATTERN. Can PATTERN be a regular expression?
2021-07-06 03:06:53	oush9[m]	probably globbing
2021-07-06 03:06:59	oush9[m]	check the man page
2021-07-06 03:08:43	TheLinuxNerd	loganlee I'm IN!!!
2021-07-06 03:08:54	TheLinuxNerd	finally, God that felt like hacking my own server
2021-07-06 03:09:07	oush9[m]	@fbi
2021-07-06 03:09:15	oush9[m]	he said a bad word
2021-07-06 03:09:51	loganlee	TheLinuxNerd: well done
2021-07-06 03:10:08	oush9[m]	and the moral of the story is.... drum roll please... back up your keys.
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2021-07-06 03:12:21	iLinux-OS-User	Backup everything...
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2021-07-06 03:12:35	iLinux-OS-User	On multiple locations...
2021-07-06 03:14:07	loganlee	yeh, i should backup stuff...
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2021-07-06 03:41:14	Helmholtz1	Why people send binaries with base64 instead of sending the raw bytes?
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2021-07-06 03:44:51	The_Blode	cURL isn't able to receive byte arrays or can it?
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2021-07-06 03:49:45	anp	Helmholtz1: some protocols assign special meaning to whitespace or control chars. such protocols are easier to use with payload without such special characters. base64 encoded data does not have them.
2021-07-06 03:49:46	Camilo	you can specify byte range for a file
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2021-07-06 03:50:55	Helmholtz1	anp, Is it possible to re-construct the original file if the base64 is only 90% correct?
2021-07-06 03:51:01	Helmholtz1	If it were bytes, it would be possibel
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2021-07-06 03:52:02	Camilo	The_Blode: look at the -r, --range flag
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2021-07-06 03:53:04	qwedfg	I just installed old hdd
2021-07-06 03:53:15	qwedfg	I overwritted it and read and it's ok
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2021-07-06 03:53:27	qwedfg	I made luks with ext4 and I wrote 60GB file
2021-07-06 03:53:36	qwedfg	then unmounted and mouted it again
2021-07-06 03:53:58	qwedfg	and now when I mount it it does continously 2MBps write and no file in lsof is doing anything
2021-07-06 03:54:02	<--	Bonstra (~Bonstra@val.bonstra.fr.eu.org) has quit (Quit: Pouf c'est tout !)
2021-07-06 03:55:04	The_Blode	Camilo: thank you
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2021-07-06 03:58:39	-->	WindowsIsANSABac (~WindowsIs@96.44.142.75.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 03:58:45	WindowsIsANSABac	Hi
2021-07-06 03:58:55	WindowsIsANSABac	Windows is a NSA backdoor
2021-07-06 03:59:05	WindowsIsANSABac	MAC is an NSA backdoor
2021-07-06 03:59:10	WindowsIsANSABac	Android and Iphone are NSA backdoors
2021-07-06 03:59:14	WindowsIsANSABac	*Prism partners*
2021-07-06 03:59:16	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-07-06 03:59:27	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@96.44.142.75.adsl.inet-telecom.org] by lacroix
2021-07-06 03:59:34	<--	WindowsIsANSABac (~WindowsIs@96.44.142.75.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-06 03:59:35	angkat	everyone gets an NSA Backdoor!
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2021-07-06 03:59:49	niko	FREE
2021-07-06 03:59:55	Camilo	fastest ban in the west
2021-07-06 04:00:16	autopsy	My anus is a backdoor for the NSA COME ON IN FOLKS HAVE SOME TEA AND JUICE AND SOME LOAFS
2021-07-06 04:00:30	@lacroix	autopsy, don't ruin it
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2021-07-06 04:00:54	autopsy	OK IM /msg WindowsISANSABac and telling him to eat doors jambs and nails and handles.
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2021-07-06 04:01:43	@lacroix	whatever, just keep it decent here
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2021-07-06 04:02:12	autopsy	Ok ok ok i telling you I will ok.
2021-07-06 04:02:24	Helmholtz1	nc ports are only open while the command is running right?
2021-07-06 04:02:31	Helmholtz1	It doesn't start a daemon or somethig?
2021-07-06 04:02:31	autopsy	nc yes.
2021-07-06 04:02:39	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-06 04:02:41	autopsy	open when nc binds to the port its transmitting on.
2021-07-06 04:02:53	autopsy	No no daemons.
2021-07-06 04:02:57	autopsy	nc is netcat.
2021-07-06 04:03:04	autopsy	net concatenate
2021-07-06 04:03:10	Helmholtz1	Why the suggest to encrypt? Who could listen on a nc pipeline?
2021-07-06 04:03:12	autopsy	network concatensate.
2021-07-06 04:03:40	autopsy	Anybody in the same LAN or segment of casble as you who sees traffic but it would have to be on a LAN only.
2021-07-06 04:04:04	autopsy	Other cable internet users wont see your IP address or traffic so nobody dude.
2021-07-06 04:04:13	autopsy	You can encrypt nc transmits but why?
2021-07-06 04:04:24	autopsy	nc is for the puirurpoce os fuiodng shit easily.
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2021-07-06 04:05:10	autopsy	termbin.com 9999
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2021-07-06 04:05:31	autopsy	lacroix,  i NEVER SAW YOU ON FREEENODE WHO ARE YOU REALLY?
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2021-07-06 04:05:38	autopsy	damn caps lock.
2021-07-06 04:05:51	autopsy	Sorry.
2021-07-06 04:06:05	autopsy	Getting all angry and yelling in here.
2021-07-06 04:06:28	lacroix	autopsy. jim has much more patience than me
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2021-07-06 04:06:33	jim	your caps lock is angry?
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2021-07-06 04:06:36	Helmholtz1	ok how to send date with nc over public IP?
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2021-07-06 04:07:04	lacroix	Helmholtz, Anybody with access to any interface the traffic passes through
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2021-07-06 04:07:13	autopsy	date | nc server.ipaddress portaddressss
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2021-07-06 04:08:32	autopsy	Helmholtz1, try to use WAN or LAN not "public" all ip addresses sare public except thopse on a LAN.
2021-07-06 04:08:51	lacroix	Helmholtz: Anybody with root on your local machine, anybody with access to your router, and an unknown number of ISPs/transit providers. And that is leaving out the three-letter agencies. :)
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2021-07-06 04:09:34	autopsy	Oh god please dont get me startged on conspiracfy joe theories.
2021-07-06 04:09:47	<--	hendursaga (~weechat@user/hendursaga) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-06 04:09:52	Helmholtz1	lacroix, You mean the attacker should listen on all ports like the original receiver?
2021-07-06 04:09:53	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-07-06 04:09:59	autopsy	jim has utmost unbelievable patuience wqith us.
2021-07-06 04:10:26	Helmholtz1	The attacker should guess the open port of original receiver. How?
2021-07-06 04:10:29	 *	autopsy goes far away
2021-07-06 04:10:32	Helmholtz1	there are many ports
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2021-07-06 04:11:00	autopsy	Theres 0-65536
2021-07-06 04:11:01	Helmholtz1	And also IP of receiver on the local network
2021-07-06 04:11:24	autopsy	Ping the broadcast address for a respnse from all machines.
2021-07-06 04:11:33	autopsy	ping -b 192.168.1.255
2021-07-06 04:11:47	autopsy	That will elicit a ping reply from every machine on the LAN.
2021-07-06 04:11:50	Helmholtz1	autopsy, Can the attacker simulatenously listen on all those 65535 ports?
2021-07-06 04:12:20	autopsy	Prints your IP address on the LAN in the reply header the TCP/ICMP packet payload traffic header 48 bits.
2021-07-06 04:12:25	Helmholtz1	autopsy, huh? I can get IPs of all hosts connected in my network??
2021-07-06 04:12:29	autopsy	Listen?
2021-07-06 04:12:31	Helmholtz1	without router access
2021-07-06 04:12:56	MrElendig	Helmholtz1: yes*
2021-07-06 04:13:00	@lacroix	Helmholtz: Think abount how tcpdump works.
2021-07-06 04:13:13	autopsy	Like using what home written procured and working C source code binary they wrote to bind to and see if you're listening the port will be bound so they will get a failure the reciever when he tries to nc anything anywyas.
2021-07-06 04:13:20	MrElendig	Helmholtz1: since most things responds and sends out broadcast packages
2021-07-06 04:13:26	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-06 04:13:33	MrElendig	responds to*
2021-07-06 04:13:46	Helmholtz1	autopsy, WARNING: pinging broadcast address
2021-07-06 04:13:49	Helmholtz1	Why warning?
2021-07-06 04:13:54	<--	elastic_dog (~elastic_d@2a01:118f:822:9c00:2132:cd52:1e4a:f46a) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 04:14:02	autopsy	Why not?
2021-07-06 04:14:06	autopsy	Cause its a hub
2021-07-06 04:14:18	autopsy	you get slike 255 at most repolies back it saturates the line.
2021-07-06 04:14:30	autopsy	2555 hosts is ALOT OF ICMP
2021-07-06 04:14:41	autopsy	Thats why the warning.
2021-07-06 04:14:57	autopsy	Helmholtz1, see those replies.
2021-07-06 04:14:59	MrElendig	pretending to be a dhcp server is a really common way to map networks
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2021-07-06 04:15:01	autopsy	Thats the mnachines.
2021-07-06 04:15:24	autopsy	Set to respond to ICMP echo packets anywyays you can set icmp-prohibited in iptables though for your hosts.
2021-07-06 04:15:41	autopsy	Oh yeah DNS too.DHCP for sure Mr Eleneding.
2021-07-06 04:15:55	Helmholtz1	ok I'm overloaded. Should check these stuff later
2021-07-06 04:16:07	Helmholtz1	But again, how can the attacker listen on all ports?
2021-07-06 04:16:11	autopsy	Helmholtz1, whats your problem here?
2021-07-06 04:16:22	<--	yagi (furishiki@shell.xshellz.com) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 04:16:22	MrElendig	there is some fun you can do with ipv6 too, there is a nice video about in on yt from defcon iirc
2021-07-06 04:16:32	Helmholtz1	autopsy, I don't know TCP/IP and the keywords you are talking about ICMP DHCP
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2021-07-06 04:16:34	autopsy	C source code file to htonl() ip addresss and (ipaddress, port)
2021-07-06 04:16:53	autopsy	then do i < port; for i++; i>0
2021-07-06 04:17:03	autopsy	Then you get 0-65536
2021-07-06 04:17:10	MrElendig	ndp is generally enabled (as it should be)
2021-07-06 04:17:25	Helmholtz1	autopsy, so the attacker can't use nc itself...
2021-07-06 04:17:26	autopsy	Ports 0 through 65536 thats all there is in 32 bit addressing ports addressing its 65536 for 32 bits.
2021-07-06 04:17:28	zamnedix	Helmholtz1: man 7 raw
2021-07-06 04:18:05	autopsy	Host to network Long.
2021-07-06 04:18:08	autopsy	htonl()
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2021-07-06 04:18:19	autopsy	Host byte order to Network Byte order long int.
2021-07-06 04:18:23	Helmholtz1	lol so one should always encrypt for sending over nc
2021-07-06 04:18:56	autopsy	See Helmholtz1 Host byte order in x86_64 is little Endian. Lerast significant bit first. Network Byte order is Big Endian.
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2021-07-06 04:19:28	autopsy	man 7 raw man htonl
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2021-07-06 04:19:38	autopsy	See Helmholtz1 read those really quick.
2021-07-06 04:19:50	autopsy	Before asking about encrypting always using nc its stupid really.
2021-07-06 04:20:11	autopsy	There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO WORRY ABT RELLY.
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2021-07-06 04:20:35	autopsy	Then see man fork
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2021-07-06 04:22:05	autopsy	then see man https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35761473/listen-for-all-incoming-traffic-on-port
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2021-07-06 04:22:41	autopsy	Thats incoiming but an attacker would need an interface in promiscous mode a wireless interface only thats it.
2021-07-06 04:23:15	autopsy	Its just not realistic to think someone is listening to your nc ports transmits on a single date | nc Helmholtz1
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2021-07-06 04:23:39	autopsy	Its too fast and is over before you can count the procfessor cyscle s in hertz.
2021-07-06 04:23:55	autopsy	Before you count to 1 its over.
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2021-07-06 04:25:25	autopsy	Helmholtz1, besides the UNIX local UNIX accounts differentiate between users so no users have priveliges to just standing listen to another bound nc date data port at any time they are seperated by namespaces and ACL in SELinux.
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2021-07-06 04:25:52	autopsy	Same with like lsof
2021-07-06 04:25:55	autopsy	or fuser
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2021-07-06 04:26:02	Helmholtz1	autopsy, thanks
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2021-07-06 04:26:58	autopsy	fuser and lsof dont list open files by other users cause you cant open a file in another users home directory without being in thier group or being them alone, and also root cant listen to files or ports without first creating a home written C source code file that DOES WHAT YOU NEED TO DO SPECIFICALLY
2021-07-06 04:27:17	iomari891	greetings, using zsh, is it possible to run a command if there is no input on the terminal for a given time,  but only if the cursor is on the terminal?
2021-07-06 04:27:18	autopsy	You wont find a program except at packetstormsecurity.net except exploits for root.
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2021-07-06 04:27:37	autopsy	Cursor is alsways ion the termi9nal bro.
2021-07-06 04:27:53	autopsy	Cursos ir the blinking I beam or block cursor yep.
2021-07-06 04:28:05	iomari891	autopsy: I'm referring to the prompt
2021-07-06 04:28:15	autopsy	Its always on the terminal ok so no anywaYSWTS NEXT next!
2021-07-06 04:28:28	autopsy	pROMPT IS ROOT@LOCALHOST#]
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2021-07-06 04:29:23	HumbleGuy	what are your thoughs on the new audacity privacy policy
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2021-07-06 04:29:24	iomari891	If my cursor is idle on the prompt for x seconds, can I trigger a script to run?
2021-07-06 04:29:57	autopsy	uSE XDOTOOL ON TERMINAL 0X0 AT POSITION 80X25 ITS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.
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2021-07-06 04:30:03	autopsy	shit.
2021-07-06 04:30:06	autopsy	caps lock.
2021-07-06 04:30:15	autopsy	My findger keeps hitting the caps lock key.
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2021-07-06 04:30:27	iomari891	shit happens
2021-07-06 04:30:32	autopsy	iomari891, use xdotool
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2021-07-06 04:30:39	iomari891	thanks
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2021-07-06 04:31:14	autopsy	And sleep 78; xdotool something(mouse,Coords) and then execute eval or exec or /bin/true
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2021-07-06 04:31:25	autopsy	Leave with 0.
2021-07-06 04:31:29	autopsy	Exit 0
2021-07-06 04:31:34	iomari891	understood
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2021-07-06 04:31:45	autopsy	I do this crap all day long on my machines in my office.
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2021-07-06 04:32:37	autopsy	I just did a copy 1000000 filkes to a drive them shred them truncate them sha256sum them save the sums and create 100 directorues in files in them all along /var/test and THEN RM OR MV THEM.
2021-07-06 04:32:59	autopsy	AS A TEST OF THE HDD SDD SDA SDB
2021-07-06 04:33:10	autopsy	Seeing the HDD LED light up and stay lit solid.
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2021-07-06 04:35:23	jim	yer yelling again
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2021-07-06 04:45:25	anp	Helmholtz: depends on the actual damage. 4 "base64 bytes" translate directly to 3 "binary bytes". So you'd need to resync to 4:3 if the damage is removed/inserted bytes, but in general you might be able get something out in the order of quality of the original damaged input
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2021-07-06 04:55:34	agus	Hello All. Quick question, do you have any good reference about virtual memory linux management?
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2021-07-06 05:00:26	jim	well virtual memory being what, swap space?
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2021-07-06 05:00:58	lopid	the official kernel docs
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2021-07-06 05:07:53	autopsy	-SWAP is virtual memory and thats it so.... yep.
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2021-07-06 05:08:09	autopsy	agus, ask away jim and I are here so is Elendiug.
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2021-07-06 05:08:42	autopsy	free() memmove() memcpy() all in time buddy.h
2021-07-06 05:08:57	autopsy	time.h is defined elsewhere.
2021-07-06 05:09:31	autopsy	We got no takers agus? lets not be too hasty about references its the official kernel docuemntatyion that you need.
2021-07-06 05:10:17	jim	yeah I'm not so good in this area
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2021-07-06 05:10:38	jim	definitely not an actual coder
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2021-07-06 05:13:29	agus	I was looking something more general that the kernel documentation. I am not so interesting about the functions. More about what how much memory can you allocate whitout touching pages, and if there is any mechanism to avoid swap-thrasing.  I will look the kernel documentation. Thank you!!
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2021-07-06 05:15:59	lacroix	agus: use earlyoom if you experience thrashing
2021-07-06 05:17:36	PaulFertser	agus: on my 512 MiB RAM netbook I use vm.swappiness=10 so that the slow eMMC swap is only used as a last resort when physical RAM is filled more than 90 %.
2021-07-06 05:17:55	PaulFertser	Helps for my usecases.
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2021-07-06 05:21:18	iLinux-OS-User	Why don't you just upgrade your RAM? It's cheap...
2021-07-06 05:21:26	agus	Thank about the earlyoom, I did not know that. I already configure vm.swappiness=10. My problem is that the process that I have to run use a lot of more memory that I have installed (x3). I increase the swap size to have enough virtual memory, but I have thrasingh (default OOM CentOS daemon do nothing). From Operating System theory something sucha as swap the complete process should happens (sleep the whole process instead of page-out/in pages).
2021-07-06 05:21:29	agus	But, I hardly doubt it. I am going to test early-oom. Thank you
2021-07-06 05:21:43	Sauvin	iLinux-OS-User, it's a netbook. Those things may not be easy to disassemble and re-assemble.
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2021-07-06 05:22:26	agus	Well... Is cheap at least you don't need 1TB of RAM for running just one experiment
2021-07-06 05:22:48	Sauvin	"experiment"?
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2021-07-06 05:23:13	iLinux-OS-User	If you upgrade your RAM to 1.5GB you will be able to use Dynamic Virtual Memory in iLinux OS: https://ilinuxos.com/dynamic-virtual-memory-swap.html
2021-07-06 05:23:25	PaulFertser	iLinux-OS-User: in my case upgrading RAM is impossible because the PCB doesn't have additional address lines routed out at all so even if I buy compatible chips and have BGA soldering equipment and skills it still can't work.
2021-07-06 05:23:44	iLinux-OS-User	OK.
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2021-07-06 05:24:36	PaulFertser	agus: if your process really needs that much RAM then it's going to be awfully slow no matter what you do. Rent a server to run it I'd say...
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2021-07-06 05:26:01	Sauvin	Or do what I do every few years: get a new computer. :D
2021-07-06 05:26:02	PaulFertser	agus: if you want that huge process to be not thrashing and instead get fully swapped out send it SIGSTOP.
2021-07-06 05:26:32	PaulFertser	Sauvin: I'd get a Pinebook Pro but they do not ship to russia for whatever silly russian reason. And I do not see any reasonable alternatives.
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2021-07-06 05:27:07	PaulFertser	Anything with Intel ME or its AMD counterpart is out of the question.
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2021-07-06 05:29:31	agus	There are multiple process, in total they need a 1TB of RAM. I am trying to find a way to run all of them together. Or if they can not be run, that the linux by it self (or some kind of daemon) stop temporally the execution of one of them. But, probably is not possible
2021-07-06 05:29:45	PaulFertser	And now that I have personal experience talking to Intel and reading their shit "strictly confidential" documents and UEFI code at work I disdain them even more.
2021-07-06 05:29:49	agus	Anyway, thank you a lof for your help one more time
2021-07-06 05:30:02	PaulFertser	agus: send SIGSTOP manually.
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2021-07-06 05:30:15	agus	Yes, I will use the SIGSTOP
2021-07-06 05:30:29	PaulFertser	agus: to all of them. Then if you need some to run for a while, send it SIGCONT. Then after it did the job, SIGSTOP again.
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2021-07-06 05:32:13	iLinux-OS-User	agus Maybe use a 1TB vm.swap?!
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2021-07-06 05:33:29	selckin	and pray you have some nice nvmes
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2021-07-06 05:40:09	astronaut	someone played a very dangerous joke with my laptop knowing the consequences. Do I have to re-install my distro? How fucked up am I?
2021-07-06 05:40:17	astronaut	chmod -x chmod
2021-07-06 05:40:44	selckin	/lib/ld-linux.so /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod
2021-07-06 05:40:47	PaulFertser	astronaut: is that the full extent of the joke?
2021-07-06 05:41:07	astronaut	PaulFertser, yeah. that's all they did.
2021-07-06 05:41:33	PaulFertser	Doesn't sound too dangerous
2021-07-06 05:42:53	akik	what was the joke?
2021-07-06 05:42:54	selckin	might be /lib64/ and fix other paths etc
2021-07-06 05:42:58	astronaut	selckin, it's not working
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2021-07-06 05:43:09	astronaut	fish: Unknown command: /lib/ld-linux.so
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2021-07-06 05:43:15	astronaut	I get this error.
2021-07-06 05:43:38	PaulFertser	Should work, good trick selckin
2021-07-06 05:43:40	selckin	/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 /usr/bin/chmod +x /usr/bin/chmod
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2021-07-06 05:44:43	astronaut	selckin, that worked. thank you.
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2021-07-06 05:45:56	rudi_s	Just to understand what's going on. /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 is the "loader", the program which loads dynamically linked programs on Linux/Unix systems. It's normally called automatically when starting a program (e.g. chmod) but i can also be called manually with the program to run as an argument.
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2021-07-06 05:46:19	astronaut	why is chmod -x chmod even allowed? like rm -Rf / it should have additional flag --disbale-chmod-itself.
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2021-07-06 05:46:44	selckin	astronaut: you can't protect against everything, can think of 100 ways to do things like that
2021-07-06 05:46:51	rudi_s	There are a lot of cases where you can screw up, chmod cannot guard against everything.
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2021-07-06 05:47:10	rudi_s	You could also do chmod 0000 / or the like.
2021-07-06 05:47:25	astronaut	rudi_s, makes sense.
2021-07-06 05:47:37	selckin	like saying your mechanic shouldn't be availbe to remove your brakes, cause you need em
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2021-07-06 05:48:14	astronaut	but they added --no-preserve-root due to popular demand
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2021-07-06 05:49:31	selckin	and people get tricked into phishing attacks every day and lose thousands of dollars
2021-07-06 05:49:38	selckin	you're not gonna solve it
2021-07-06 05:50:24	selckin	thats mostly to protect again like rm -rf /$foobar and foobar is empty etc
2021-07-06 05:50:39	rudi_s	And it doesn't protect against other cases, e.g. rm -rf /* or similar
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2021-07-06 05:51:31	loganlee	you can run *.so.2?
2021-07-06 05:51:52	rudi_s	loganlee: Just the loader itself AFAIK.
2021-07-06 05:52:02	rudi_s	*linking loader
2021-07-06 05:52:08	loganlee	i see...
2021-07-06 05:52:09	astronaut	remember some one forgot to remove a space and did this `sudo rm -rf /usr /share/something`?
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2021-07-06 05:52:10	PaulFertser	What happens after a mechanic removes but then doesn't properly install brakes (caliper): https://i.postimg.cc/Bb1GJzrX/IMG-6521.jpg
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2021-07-06 05:54:34	astronaut	PaulFertser, how is that bike even standing without the spokes?
2021-07-06 05:54:49	PaulFertser	astronaut: https://i.postimg.cc/LsNSDLk6/IMG-6520.jpg
2021-07-06 05:55:50	PaulFertser	The poster says it happened at ~180 km/h
2021-07-06 05:56:03	selckin	and he's still alive, nice
2021-07-06 05:56:05	astronaut	they survived?
2021-07-06 05:56:05	PaulFertser	So probably not letting a mechanic touch the brakes is a good idea after all.
2021-07-06 05:56:24	selckin	hah you should see how accidents would happen without brake maintance
2021-07-06 05:56:33	PaulFertser	astronaut: yes, managed to control the bike despite the rear wheel skidding till full stop.
2021-07-06 05:56:42	astronaut	that looks like a horror story
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2021-07-06 05:57:17	schillingklaus	the rise of systemd is an unbeatable horror story
2021-07-06 05:58:03	<--	waxfire23 (~waxfire@65.119.2.240) has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-07-06 05:58:12	astronaut	systemd aside, I still haven't forgiven him for pulseaudio.
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2021-07-06 05:58:28	selckin	dead horse meet stick
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2021-07-06 05:59:01	iLinux-OS-User	At least systemd is now Open Source, unlike the early days...
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2021-07-06 05:59:23	astronaut	i was surprised how fast systemd spread across the entire community despite vocal opposition.
2021-07-06 05:59:38	iLinux-OS-User	It was staged to.
2021-07-06 05:59:38	selckin	because the vocal opposition never actually managed servers
2021-07-06 05:59:43	iLinux-OS-User	And imposed.
2021-07-06 05:59:50	iLinux-OS-User	And paid off.
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2021-07-06 06:00:52	astronaut	it is so difficult these days to avoid systemd.
2021-07-06 06:01:57	astronaut	I wish someone does a harmless large scale attack on servers based on systemd's WONTFIX bugs.
2021-07-06 06:02:01	PaulFertser	astronaut: just use Gentoo
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2021-07-06 06:02:26	astronaut	And then everybody does a mass exodus to 'runit'
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2021-07-06 06:03:37	clemens3	astronaut: which distro are you using?
2021-07-06 06:03:53	astronaut	clemens3, Void Linux.
2021-07-06 06:04:03	clemens3	but that is without systemd. not?
2021-07-06 06:04:14	clemens3	i am using lfs,the sysvinit version
2021-07-06 06:04:32	clemens3	i hardly gettin in contact with systemd..
2021-07-06 06:04:40	astronaut	yes it is systemd-free and the community goes to great lengths to avoid potteringware.
2021-07-06 06:04:50	astronaut	it uses 'runit'
2021-07-06 06:05:14	clemens3	well, the bloat is approaching non stop, that is the price of total freedom..
2021-07-06 06:05:41	clemens3	and everybody allowed to add and play and mess with it.. must be always careful what to pick ourselves..
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2021-07-06 06:06:04	PaulFertser	Talking about bloat, systemd was used on very constrained embedded systems long before the general public heard of it.
2021-07-06 06:06:07	clemens3	but still prefer the jungle over being controlled
2021-07-06 06:06:34	clemens3	well, 600k lines of code are 600 more than I need
2021-07-06 06:06:57	PaulFertser	https://www.cnx-software.com/2011/11/08/booting-userspace-in-less-than-1-second-with-systemd-elce-2011/
2021-07-06 06:07:01	clemens3	if someone needs it, fine for them
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2021-07-06 06:07:39	clemens3	i don't know how long my stuff boots, but the longest time is probably the 5 seconds waiting on grub menu:)
2021-07-06 06:07:45	astronaut	PaulFertser, the propaganda that systemd is fast was what made so many jump the ship
2021-07-06 06:08:11	astronaut	systemd was never fast
2021-07-06 06:08:13	PaulFertser	astronaut: is it NOT fast in certain workloads?
2021-07-06 06:08:33	clemens3	no idea
2021-07-06 06:08:58	clemens3	i don't need ultra fast boot in exchange for complexity, i need easy to understand boot process
2021-07-06 06:09:01	astronaut	I can't say for others, but it was never fast for me.
2021-07-06 06:09:09	PaulFertser	astronaut: feel free to build OpenEmbedded for the same platform with the same set of daemons and use some other init system to actually prove systemd is slow.
2021-07-06 06:09:23	PaulFertser	astronaut: I mean for any platform you have handy
2021-07-06 06:09:29	clemens3	well, I don't need openembedded
2021-07-06 06:09:41	astronaut	clemens3, you should try 'runit' it is so clean simple and elegant. you will love how transparent.
2021-07-06 06:09:42	clemens3	i need PersonalDesktop
2021-07-06 06:09:53	clemens3	i have no problem with sysvinit
2021-07-06 06:09:55	clemens3	not at all
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2021-07-06 06:10:11	clemens3	is clean, simple
2021-07-06 06:10:46	clemens3	well, bash is not elegant, but still i have to live with bash all over the place for everything else, so basing the init on it is still kinda elegant
2021-07-06 06:11:03	clemens3	most simple i can imagine
2021-07-06 06:11:21	clemens3	i have no other requirements for init/booting up
2021-07-06 06:11:22	astronaut	PaulFertser, even if it is not slow, it will fill my lsblk, fdisk -l with garbage
2021-07-06 06:11:35	selckin	its easy if you ignore the points systemd is actually better on
2021-07-06 06:11:40	clemens3	but i have nothing against runit
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2021-07-06 06:11:52	clemens3	selckin: i go from my needs
2021-07-06 06:12:00	schillingklaus	i don't live with bash but choose a less clunky shell
2021-07-06 06:12:07	jim	well, most shell languages are not so elegant, so I tend to move toward non-shell scripting languages, lua, python, perl etc
2021-07-06 06:12:09	clemens3	i keep bash
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2021-07-06 06:12:23	astronaut	clemens3, why bash when you can have fish
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2021-07-06 06:12:34	clemens3	because it offers nothign groundbraking
2021-07-06 06:12:42	PaulFertser	astronaut: plain Debian GNU/Linux, running systemd without any tweaks, I can't see any garbage: https://termbin.com/jufaq
2021-07-06 06:13:02	jim	I've been playing with another shell, xonsh, which also has its clunkyness, but it also has all of python3 as a subset
2021-07-06 06:13:09	schillingklaus	fish is tailored for interactive usage, not system scripting
2021-07-06 06:13:40	clemens3	csh, tcsh, ksh, zsh, sh, dash, nothing with any real advantage over bash.. bash still also powerful, configurable, widely availabe, same too for script and interative..
2021-07-06 06:13:54	clemens3	so if i use the same tool for script and interactive
2021-07-06 06:14:05	clemens3	bash is also taylored for interactive btw..
2021-07-06 06:14:35	astronaut	PaulFertser, mine is filled with many `loopN` devices. Oh maybe that is because of Snap. Yet another shit I hate.
2021-07-06 06:14:37	iLinux-OS-User	Unfortunately many Software Packages require systemd nowadays so it's kind of hard to avoid it...
2021-07-06 06:14:44	clemens3	but I don't say couldn't be there something miles better, thinking of a merge between bash with pipes and ruby irb/pry repl/shell
2021-07-06 06:14:52	PaulFertser	astronaut: see, systemd has nothing to do with it :)
2021-07-06 06:14:59	clemens3	iLinux-OS-User: hmm, nothing i need so far..
2021-07-06 06:15:14	schillingklaus	I avoid systemd by using marginally known distributions
2021-07-06 06:15:19	iLinux-OS-User	Maybe not you but the average user?
2021-07-06 06:15:33	clemens3	so what is unfortunate about it?
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2021-07-06 06:16:08	iLinux-OS-User	In principal I disagree with systemd but practically it's difficult for the average user to avoid it.
2021-07-06 06:16:19	clemens3	if something has a dependency that is not really necessary, do you really want that software to begin with?
2021-07-06 06:16:33	astronaut	what distro do you use iLinux-OS-User ?
2021-07-06 06:16:43	clemens3	average user is what? linux is all for yourself..
2021-07-06 06:17:04	iLinux-OS-User	iLinux OS https://ilinuxos.com - It's based on Debian 10 Stable
2021-07-06 06:17:26	clemens3	the average user has 260 distros to choose from
2021-07-06 06:17:42	astronaut	average user = someone who cannot live without X, clemens3
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2021-07-06 06:17:52	clemens3	the average user should be happy to find whatever he/she likes
2021-07-06 06:17:52	iLinux-OS-User	I am not talking about Sysadmins and Power Users. I am talking about everyday Windows or Mac users who consider switching to Linux.
2021-07-06 06:18:09	clemens3	why x needs systemd?
2021-07-06 06:18:20	PaulFertser	It's called macOS now, and, by the way, it's GNU/Linux if you're talking about desktop distros.
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2021-07-06 06:18:31	clemens3	iLinux-OS-User: so average windows/mac user?!
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2021-07-06 06:18:48	clemens3	who is you?
2021-07-06 06:19:00	iLinux-OS-User	Average users need something that works out of the box and don't care about the Technical details.
2021-07-06 06:19:21	clemens3	most distros work out of the box
2021-07-06 06:19:23	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, couldn't find your distro on DW.
2021-07-06 06:19:49	rudi_s	clemens3: Have you looked at zsh? It has a lot to offer over a plain bash. Both interactively and when scripting (altough I rarely use shell for scripting).
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2021-07-06 06:20:01	akik	PaulFertser: it's gnu+linux now
2021-07-06 06:20:02	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut https://ilinuxos.com/kb-why-ilinux-os-is-not-listed-in-distrowatch.html
2021-07-06 06:20:12	clemens3	rudi_s: bash has also a lot to offer for interactive
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2021-07-06 06:20:19	astronaut	clemens3, X doesn't need systemd.
2021-07-06 06:20:21	iLinux-OS-User	DistroWatch?! Really?!
2021-07-06 06:20:23	PaulFertser	akik: please give me a reference to read
2021-07-06 06:20:24	schillingklaus	either they are happy with win/macos, then I don't see why they would consider switching; or they are unhappy, then thye should be glad to find something that does not remind them of win/macos
2021-07-06 06:20:25	clemens3	astronaut: i know
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2021-07-06 06:20:48	clemens3	rudi_s: or use qmk for keyboard macros, tmux, for interactive what you might use zsh for..
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2021-07-06 06:20:48	iLinux-OS-User	DistroWatch is completely biased...
2021-07-06 06:21:13	astronaut	biased towards what?
2021-07-06 06:21:15	rudi_s	clemens3: Not compared to zsh. Superior tab completion (although that got better in bash in recent years), extensive globbing support (e.g. only executable files or symlinks with support to control the order), etc.
2021-07-06 06:21:19	iLinux-OS-User	Just read that: https://ilinuxos.com/kb-why-ilinux-os-is-not-listed-in-distrowatch.html
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2021-07-06 06:22:06	clemens3	rudi_s: keep it simple..:)
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2021-07-06 06:22:22	schillingklaus	on distrowatch 1.mx 2. manjaro 3. mint 4. endeavour 5. popos
2021-07-06 06:22:30	rudi_s	clemens3: I like simple in general. But I need a powerful (interactive) shell so I can work efficently.
2021-07-06 06:22:47	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, where do I find general information about the distro like init system, DE, WM, etc?
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2021-07-06 06:23:09	clemens3	rudi_s: no problem using zsh!
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2021-07-06 06:23:21	clemens3	i like alternatives too
2021-07-06 06:23:26	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut https://ilinuxos.com/technical-specifications.html
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2021-07-06 06:23:53	clemens3	rudi_s: i know the debian zsh package maintainer btw.. he didn't try, but also couldn't convince me
2021-07-06 06:23:55	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, I have never seen any desktop enviroment like iLinux's
2021-07-06 06:23:59	clemens3	he also uses screen, i use tmux
2021-07-06 06:24:07	clemens3	actually he also maintains screen
2021-07-06 06:24:30	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut The interface is a mix of Mate, Tint2, Openbox and many custom interface elements. https://ilinuxos.com/screenshots.html
2021-07-06 06:24:52	akik	PaulFertser: https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6123_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201412291130_-_freedom_in_your_computer_and_in_the_net_-_richard_stallman
2021-07-06 06:25:06	rudi_s	clemens3: Justed want to point out that "csh, tcsh, ksh, zsh, sh, dash, nothing with any real advantage over bash" is a questionable summary.
2021-07-06 06:25:08	akik	PaulFertser: from the gnu's mouth
2021-07-06 06:25:13	rudi_s	*Just wanted
2021-07-06 06:25:33	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, oh, it is MATE with a dock and custom top panel.
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2021-07-06 06:25:41	rudi_s	And I can't see how screen and tmux are relevant here.
2021-07-06 06:25:49	clemens3	rudi_s: yeah, sh/dash is a bit ,meah
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2021-07-06 06:26:11	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut And many more... I am using it for 5 months now and it's quite deep...
2021-07-06 06:26:14	clemens3	rudi_s: i more wanted to say, overall is just different flavors, not fundamentally any difference
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2021-07-06 06:26:37	clemens3	simple limited control structure but pipes and readline
2021-07-06 06:26:42	rudi_s	clemens3: Well, it's a shell, so yes. Still there is a large difference in actual usage.
2021-07-06 06:27:04	clemens3	rudi_s: just about the zsh maintainers preference
2021-07-06 06:27:12	clemens3	nothing is relevant here
2021-07-06 06:27:15	astronaut	what is wrong with good ol' MATE. I use MATE as my primary DE. I love it.
2021-07-06 06:27:15	rudi_s	What?
2021-07-06 06:27:19	clemens3	is just idling killing time etc.
2021-07-06 06:27:52	clemens3	with anonymous and bots
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2021-07-06 06:28:46	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut iLinux OS took Mate to the next level if you ask me. Take a look at Control Center for example: https://ilinuxos.com/control-center.html
2021-07-06 06:29:03	akik	astronaut: nothing wrong with mate
2021-07-06 06:29:12	iLinux-OS-User	@astronaNot to mention all the other stuff: https://ilinuxos.com/innovations.html
2021-07-06 06:29:20	lopid	it and its web site have been designed for those hard of seeing
2021-07-06 06:29:55	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, control center is the same as vanilla MATE.
2021-07-06 06:30:23	iLinux-OS-User	@astronaut Look at the number of elements it has...
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2021-07-06 06:30:38	iLinux-OS-User	vanilla MATE is very limited.
2021-07-06 06:31:02	iLinux-OS-User	Never the less at the end of the day it's a matter of personal taste I suppose. I like it. Others may not.
2021-07-06 06:31:05	akik	vanilla gnome is very limited
2021-07-06 06:31:12	iomari891	is there a sleep alternative that will break with any key stroke and not just ctrl-c?
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2021-07-06 06:31:59	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, https://files.catbox.moe/xy2vwf.png this is how it looks on my computer
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2021-07-06 06:32:24	lopid	there is sigquit - ctrl-\
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2021-07-06 06:32:42	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut I know. Now compare to what's here: https://ilinuxos.com/control-center.html
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2021-07-06 06:32:52	lopid	ctrl-z will also stop the process
2021-07-06 06:32:53	iLinux-OS-User	Much more...
2021-07-06 06:32:56	schillingklaus	and my personal taste is that all desktop environments are disgusting
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2021-07-06 06:33:25	iLinux-OS-User	schillingklaus:')
2021-07-06 06:33:29	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, it is the same with a bunch of extra packages.
2021-07-06 06:33:53	astronaut	schillingklaus, so how do you use your computer? without X?
2021-07-06 06:33:56	iomari891	I'm looking for a solution that will break with any keystroke
2021-07-06 06:34:00	iLinux-OS-User	astronaut Whatever works for you dude!
2021-07-06 06:35:07	iLinux-OS-User	Going for lunch! See you later boys/girls!
2021-07-06 06:35:14	astronaut	out of all desktop, MATE is the least annoying.
2021-07-06 06:35:57	astronaut	iLinux-OS-User, bye
2021-07-06 06:36:03	jim	schillingklaus, what do you like instead of a DE? or, any graphics at all?
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2021-07-06 06:38:37	astronaut	we should all give up on BASH and use TCL instead.
2021-07-06 06:38:51	death916	just use powershell duh
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2021-07-06 06:39:11	jim	TCL is actually pretty great... I've found it very hard to crash it
2021-07-06 06:39:22	schillingklaus	jim: ratpoison, a mouseless window manager
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2021-07-06 06:39:53	astronaut	death916, powershell is Microsoft technology.
2021-07-06 06:40:14	death916	it runs on linux, but i know i was playin
2021-07-06 06:40:30	astronaut	you should not touch it even with a 10 foot pole.
2021-07-06 06:40:43	death916	haha i dont even touch it on windows
2021-07-06 06:41:28	astronaut	what do you use on Windows? MYSYS2? or WSL2?
2021-07-06 06:41:33	death916	wsl2
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2021-07-06 06:41:51	death916	and b4 i used gitbash n conemu
2021-07-06 06:41:56	death916	err cmdr
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2021-07-06 06:43:11	astronaut	I don't have a lot of experience with Windows. I feel crippled when using it. WSL2 makes life a little bit easier.
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2021-07-06 06:44:00	jim	schillingklaus, do you add things for the other things you do?
2021-07-06 06:44:42	schillingklaus	jim: qutebrowser, xpdf, rxvt-unicode... the rest runs inside rxvt-unicode
2021-07-06 06:44:58	jim	astronaut, do you have a linux installed somewhere?
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2021-07-06 06:45:53	jim	astronaut, do you -want- to install a linux somewhere? :)
2021-07-06 06:46:08	astronaut	jim, no. why?
2021-07-06 06:46:21	schillingklaus	astronaut's  wsl2 contains a linux kernel, doesn't it?
2021-07-06 06:46:32	jim	I think so
2021-07-06 06:46:45	astronaut	schillingklaus, it is an emulation layer like Wine
2021-07-06 06:46:47	death916	ya
2021-07-06 06:46:52	death916	it is a full kernel
2021-07-06 06:46:59	death916	with some ms additions for compat
2021-07-06 06:47:01	schillingklaus	so that should count as having linux installed *somewhere*
2021-07-06 06:47:11	death916	u install a distro on top of it
2021-07-06 06:47:14	death916	so it is installed
2021-07-06 06:47:30	jim	astronaut, confused... I asked two questions, which did you answer?
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2021-07-06 06:48:14	death916	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/838658372936794192/861921422947778590/unknown.png
2021-07-06 06:48:17	death916	hats how wsl looks in terminal
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2021-07-06 06:48:36	astronaut	jim, I have Linux on every device computer I have except for one which dual boots with Windows and I don't want to install LInux somewhere.
2021-07-06 06:48:43	jim	looks like the arch logo
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2021-07-06 06:49:26	jim	oh ok, so the answer to my first question was a yes ;)
2021-07-06 06:50:00	astronaut	death916, Windows Terminal has cool retro scanline effect.
2021-07-06 06:50:06	death916	haha ya i like it
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2021-07-06 06:50:12	death916	i use it to tell which tab im on
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2021-07-06 06:50:29	death916	wsl has retro on
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2021-07-06 06:50:33	death916	windows dowsnt
2021-07-06 06:50:39	death916	ps*
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2021-07-06 06:51:12	astronaut	No terminal emulator on linux does that retro scanline thingy.
2021-07-06 06:51:17	death916	plus it adds +5 to my hacking skills obviously
2021-07-06 06:51:26	death916	none do? thats surprising
2021-07-06 06:51:27	astronaut	Terminology comes close, but not like that.
2021-07-06 06:51:53	hodapp	cool-retro-term isn't good enough?
2021-07-06 06:51:57	death916	it woulda been more noticeable had i not had a super black background
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2021-07-06 06:53:17	astronaut	hodapp, https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term WOW!!! This is like on a whole new level of nostalgic.
2021-07-06 06:53:43	death916	had you not seen that one?
2021-07-06 06:53:49	astronaut	Can I play Super Mario Brothers on cool-retro-term?
2021-07-06 06:54:02	death916	tetris
2021-07-06 06:54:08	death916	doom i think
2021-07-06 06:54:11	astronaut	Nostalgia hit me like a brick to my face.
2021-07-06 06:55:08	hodapp	was just puzzled because I thought there were several terminal emulators on Linux that do the scanline emulation
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2021-07-06 06:56:02	astronaut	hodapp, what other cool terminal emulator do you know for Linux with nostalgic retro effects?
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2021-07-06 06:58:22	TheDcoder	Hi, is there a dedicated channel for sysadmins?
2021-07-06 06:58:35	qwedfg	do you know maybe of some block layer
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2021-07-06 06:58:39	omero	ehehe #root?
2021-07-06 06:58:43	akik	TheDcoder: this is it
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2021-07-06 06:59:00	qwedfg	where the physical filesystem remains unchanged and the changes are mapped to either memory or other files when I copy to it
2021-07-06 06:59:05	 *	omero was kidding
2021-07-06 06:59:09	qwedfg	oh I see no chance :)
2021-07-06 06:59:14	TheDcoder	I am new to AWS and I can't setup a simple listening server, I am testing via nc but the client is not able to connect
2021-07-06 06:59:21	TheDcoder	firewall is allowing the port
2021-07-06 06:59:21	hodapp	astronaut: supposedly one can use 'apple2' and 'phosphor' from xscreensaver as terminal emulators on their own
2021-07-06 06:59:28	qwedfg	you need to enable it on the firewall
2021-07-06 06:59:31	TheDcoder	and the exact commands work locally
2021-07-06 06:59:35	qwedfg	in the security policy of the instance
2021-07-06 06:59:37	qwedfg	in console
2021-07-06 06:59:44	hodapp	there is also Cathode I guess
2021-07-06 06:59:44	qwedfg	in aws console
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2021-07-06 07:00:03	TheDcoder	qwedfg: I am not the sysadmin actually but I am a dev, the admin added a fw rule for my port
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2021-07-06 07:01:06	death916	do you hav permissions
2021-07-06 07:01:12	TheDcoder	yes
2021-07-06 07:01:22	death916	in aws as well
2021-07-06 07:01:32	TheDcoder	no, only root access
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2021-07-06 07:01:47	TheDcoder	can't the firewall be adjusted from the shell?
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2021-07-06 07:02:12	qwedfg	yes, but you need to acceess key to aws api
2021-07-06 07:02:14	TheDcoder	is AWS more "console" centric?
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2021-07-06 07:02:40	TheDcoder	why? I only need access to the server
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2021-07-06 07:02:48	TheDcoder	I do not manage the instance
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2021-07-06 07:02:56	qwedfg	no, the server can be compromised and better not have keys there
2021-07-06 07:03:11	qwedfg	on the live instance with access to external network
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2021-07-06 07:03:21	TheDcoder	uhh... what keys?
2021-07-06 07:03:37	TheDcoder	the server runs a service, it needs to have access to external network
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2021-07-06 07:09:11	TheDcoder	anyone?
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2021-07-06 07:11:06	akik	TheDcoder: if you start sshd on a random port, do you get access to it?
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2021-07-06 07:11:31	jim	TheDcoder, could you say a bit more? I don't have a good picture of your question
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2021-07-06 07:12:35	akik	jim: his service is running on a port that is not available from internet
2021-07-06 07:12:42	TheDcoder	akik: nah, don't want to mess with sshd, and the server is also using ufw (aside from whatever AWS is running)
2021-07-06 07:13:24	akik	TheDcoder: that's just for checking whether you can have open ports outside the aws setup
2021-07-06 07:13:26	TheDcoder	jim: akik gave you the brief, but I am using nc to test connection in listen mode but I cannot connect to it
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2021-07-06 07:14:00	TheDcoder	akik: right... so you think this could be AWS's network restriction?
2021-07-06 07:14:30	akik	TheDcoder: that's probably what qwedfg was hinting to
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2021-07-06 07:15:01	TheDcoder	yeah but I need someone who can confirm that since I don't have AWS console
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2021-07-06 07:15:28	TheDcoder	I informed my admin but he's slow and I want to make sure I am not missing something silly
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2021-07-06 07:19:04	TheDcoder	I'd be grateful if someone can volunteer to test netcat listen mode in an AWS instance
2021-07-06 07:19:06	akik	TheDcoder: if you wantto test, open the port 12345 in ufw and run "sudo /usr/sbin/sshd -p 12345"
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2021-07-06 07:19:46	TheDcoder	akik: Can sshd run simultaneously with another instance? I don't want to kill the main one
2021-07-06 07:19:53	akik	TheDcoder: yes
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2021-07-06 07:20:17	SkunkyLaptop	akik: sure, just run it on a different port
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2021-07-06 07:22:53	omero	folks, can someone take a look a this pppd output and let me know their thoughts? https://termbin.com/yvmb
2021-07-06 07:23:04	TheDcoder	akik: I tested with `python -m http.server 12345` and it's not working.
2021-07-06 07:23:29	TheDcoder	so probably a blocked port... :(
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2021-07-06 07:36:22	ananke	TheDcoder: did you actually adjust the security group to allow that in?
2021-07-06 07:36:29	ananke	if not, this should be of no surprise
2021-07-06 07:36:55	akik	ananke: he only has access to the vm
2021-07-06 07:37:21	TheDcoder	yeah, I don't know any of the AWS stuff
2021-07-06 07:38:48	ananke	TheDcoder: AWS has a notion of 'security groups', which are essentially firewall rules on the network level. by default no traffic is allowed
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2021-07-06 07:39:14	TheDcoder	Oh, I see
2021-07-06 07:39:19	TheDcoder	thanks for sharing the info
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2021-07-06 07:41:07	death916	isnt web traffic allowed by default
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2021-07-06 07:41:26	death916	cant u like wget or install packages
2021-07-06 07:41:39	akik	ananke: does that apply to s3 buckets too? so the people that have made the buckets open for all, have made them consciously?
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2021-07-06 07:41:57	death916	like i said ihavent used aws for a while but i feel like i was able to curl things and such so there should be a way to do some things
2021-07-06 07:42:03	death916	but maybe im misremembering
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2021-07-06 07:42:51	jim	death916, hi, we don't really like the use of u for you... sometimes I say, 'Please spell out u as you... it would help folks who are here and are new english speakers, some don't hear u as a rhyme for you (similar for other forms of abbreviations: y for why, 4 for for, 2 for to, r for are, etc)'
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2021-07-06 07:43:03	ananke	death916: uhmm, you're talking about egres rules, while he's fighting ingres ones
2021-07-06 07:43:07	death916	ya my bad im in a lot of channels so I forget when im in here
2021-07-06 07:43:19	death916	true ananke duh
2021-07-06 07:43:25	kurahaupo	astronaut: perl -e 'chmod 0555, $_ for @ARGV' /bin/chmod OR cp /bin/chmod x$$ && install -m555 x$$ /bin/chmod
2021-07-06 07:43:32	jim	death916, no big deal, and, you're here now :)
2021-07-06 07:44:03	death916	alot of the channels have similar topics going on so it kinda blends
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2021-07-06 07:44:17	jim	yeah I get it
2021-07-06 07:44:19	[Leeloo]	Hi
2021-07-06 07:44:23	jim	hi
2021-07-06 07:44:24	death916	also im lazy
2021-07-06 07:44:24	ananke	akik: by default, s3 buckets are private, so nobody other than the account owner can get to them. so yes, open 'public' s3 buckets were opened by their owners
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2021-07-06 07:45:42	akik	'mazing
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2021-07-06 07:46:08	iLinux-OS-User	And NSA...
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2021-07-06 08:00:02	PaulFertser	akik: I see he says about a GNU plus Linux systems in the video (and later about GNU slash Linux too) but it doesn't mean GNU+Linux is the recommended official spelling for English language. https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#whyslash
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2021-07-06 08:08:59	omero	I wonder why I am no longer getting valid IPv6/64 address from my provider
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2021-07-06 08:09:29	omero	it has worked flawlessly as late as early may... then ... not any longer
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2021-07-06 08:10:58	omero	havent changed any configuration (pppoe) on my side... and I have no clue. authentications goes just fine, infact I get a valid ipv4 address (ppp0) but not the ipv6 one anymore
2021-07-06 08:12:00	ananke	talk to your isp
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2021-07-06 08:12:49	omero	yeah... tried several times to get a straight answer. average operator have no clue. do you want me to put you in contact with an expert? at a price of course...
2021-07-06 08:13:25	Khaytsus	Your ISP charges for support?
2021-07-06 08:13:35	ananke	 if it's a service they're supposed to provide, then it's something they need to support
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2021-07-06 08:13:52	ananke	either way, we can't fix that
2021-07-06 08:13:57	Khaytsus	PPPooPIE, I'd change ISPs anyway
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2021-07-06 08:15:34	ananke	changing ISPs is often impossible
2021-07-06 08:15:36	omero	yeah... that kind of issues is only answered on a pay-per-answer
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2021-07-06 08:16:32	CommunistWolf	if you can't change isp, change country
2021-07-06 08:16:38	omero	lol
2021-07-06 08:17:12	ananke	omero: is ipv6 an advertized service? are you getting it via SLAAC or DHCPv6? if it's part of the service, they need to support it
2021-07-06 08:17:30	omero	it should be
2021-07-06 08:17:40	omero	thats were it puzzles me...
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2021-07-06 08:18:06	omero	used to work untill say... mid may
2021-07-06 08:18:38	ananke	omero: that tells us nothing. either something changed on your end (and you'd have that info), or it was your ISP
2021-07-06 08:18:51	omero	then not anylonger and there is no reason... its like the remote is acknowledging the request but what answers is ... crap
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2021-07-06 08:20:15	omero	i'm tcpdumping ppp0 but I see nothing weird except the fact that I dont get a valid address... all i get is that fe80::1 which makes no sense
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2021-07-06 08:20:36	akik	omero: try booting a live session of your distro and create the config there
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2021-07-06 08:20:46	PaulFertser	omero: you should run pppd with "debug" option and then you'll see all the IPCP exchanges decoded
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2021-07-06 08:21:13	omero	https://termbin.com/yvmb
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2021-07-06 08:21:25	omero	I am ... also using kdebug 1
2021-07-06 08:21:34	PaulFertser	Jul  6 13:09:38 naldvras pppd[9715]: Protocol-Reject for 'IPv6 Control Protocol' (0x8057) received
2021-07-06 08:21:55	PaulFertser	omero: I think your ISP should have some facility to provide you a free of charge answer to this log
2021-07-06 08:22:36	omero	consider only what comes after Jul  6 13:13:05 naldvras pppd[9820]: PPP session is 1512
2021-07-06 08:24:23	omero	PaulFertser: mmm... that's actually a good idea. havent thought but they do have a forum somewhere run by the user community
2021-07-06 08:25:19	akik	my friend said that when his isp had some kind of sales pitch he asked about ipv6. the salesman said yes, sure. now when he tries to get ipv6 access the isp is like "ipv6, what?" :)
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2021-07-06 08:25:36	djph	sounds about right for sales.
2021-07-06 08:25:36	omero	bhuhauhauha
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2021-07-06 08:26:05	omegatron	... -_-    with each release, firefox becomes more and more unusable ..   which genius thought it would be a great idea, the developer tools window (as separate window) should always be fullscreen, when dragged to another display? and it's not even resizable ..  *sigh*
2021-07-06 08:26:17	omero	ipvsex?! hey dont talk dirty to me...
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2021-07-06 08:28:08	PaulFertser	omero: hm, have you tried actually running a DHCPv6 client on that interface after the connection is established?
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2021-07-06 08:28:30	omero	never needed to, but I was thinking about that...
2021-07-06 08:28:57	omero	it should be done automatically... it always worked like that
2021-07-06 08:29:06	PaulFertser	Also, DHCPv6-PD should be tried
2021-07-06 08:30:43	omero	mmm... Ill see if that helps..
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2021-07-06 08:32:26	akik	i have a ipv6 tunnel from tunnelbroker.net and radvd distributing those addresses. it has worked well
2021-07-06 08:32:35	PaulFertser	omero: I see in your log that LL IPv6 communication is established and allowed. So to proceed it might very well be that you just need to use DHCPv6.
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2021-07-06 08:33:24	omero	I used to have a go6 broker long time ago... but it was rather unstable/crappy
2021-07-06 08:33:57	Psi-Jack	Well, it was a tunnel, so, yeah, it was unstable and crappy.
2021-07-06 08:34:32	PaulFertser	omero: it might be possible that even SLAAC works over that connection. You can try with "rdisc6 ppp0"
2021-07-06 08:34:39	akik	i just said the tunnelbroker.net tunnel works well :)
2021-07-06 08:34:41	Psi-Jack	radvd is definitely the best way to get it internally addressed though. Heck, even my EdgeRouter uses this.
2021-07-06 08:34:47	akik	but for all their own experience
2021-07-06 08:34:52	Psi-Jack	akik: And I just said, you're wrong.
2021-07-06 08:34:56	Psi-Jack	Basically. :p
2021-07-06 08:35:00	akik	Psi-Jack: no, i'm right :)
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2021-07-06 08:35:25	PaulFertser	I was absent from the channel for two hours today exactly because HE tunnel was down.
2021-07-06 08:35:27	akik	if it works 100% of the time i need it, it works pretty well
2021-07-06 08:36:03	omero	i'll have to build those from source... Ill see ...
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2021-07-06 08:36:17	PaulFertser	omero: probably you just had a dhcpv6 client running automatically before.
2021-07-06 08:36:30	omero	no, Im positive...
2021-07-06 08:36:34	PaulFertser	omero: after you get this line in your log: Jul  6 13:13:06 naldvras pppd[9820]: local  LL address fe80::0000:0000:0000:0001
2021-07-06 08:36:44	PaulFertser	You should try to see RA and DHCPv6.
2021-07-06 08:36:48	omero	my system is non-conventional
2021-07-06 08:37:08	PaulFertser	omero: probably the address was with SLAAC and the kernel was sending RAs and assigning addresses on its own.
2021-07-06 08:37:25	omero	uhm...
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2021-07-06 08:38:00	omero	missing a kernel module? I usually only 'modprope pppoe' and then 'pppd call provider'
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2021-07-06 08:38:42	PaulFertser	omero: no, but some sysctl settings affect the behaviour. Anyway, get ndisc6/rdisc6 and a DHCPv6 client and it should provide additional clues.
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2021-07-06 08:40:10	omero	mumble... do you happen to remember what should I be looking (I suppose /proc/...)
2021-07-06 08:40:14	varaindemian	Have the following piece of code: https://pastebin.com/NCcFAer0 `$2` will hold the values of the keys - `GPU-0.DP-2` etc. Wonder if line 12 is equivalent to `echo "${X[GPU-0.DP-2]}"`
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2021-07-06 08:41:21	omero	- /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ppp0/accept_ra maybe?
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2021-07-06 08:41:54	PaulFertser	omero: that is the sysctl setting I meant, yes.
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2021-07-06 08:42:31	omero	there's a bunch of interesting stuff under that /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ppp0
2021-07-06 08:42:34	PaulFertser	And probably net.ipv6.conf.all.accept_ra
2021-07-06 08:42:38	omero	but never had to tamper
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2021-07-06 08:42:45	PaulFertser	If it's set to 1 it should work.
2021-07-06 08:42:54	omero	iits worth a try tho.. yes
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2021-07-06 08:43:02	PaulFertser	It might be that your ISP used to provide SLAAC and now switched to DHCPv6.
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2021-07-06 08:43:09	PaulFertser	omero: is it not 1 now?
2021-07-06 08:43:34	PaulFertser	net.ipv6.conf.default.accept_ra is related too since this interface is created on the fly.
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2021-07-06 08:43:41	omero	seems all is 1
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2021-07-06 08:44:06	omero	yes, ppp0 exists only after pppd is running
2021-07-06 08:44:10	PaulFertser	omero: so next things to try: rdisc6 , dhcpv6 client
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2021-07-06 08:46:07	omero	whats use_tempaddr for?
2021-07-06 08:46:19	omero	its 0
2021-07-06 08:46:45	PaulFertser	omero: privacy extensions. When using SLAAC it's nice to pick a new random address for each outgoing connection.
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2021-07-06 08:47:04	omero	yeah... also disable_ipv6 is 0, but I like that ;)
2021-07-06 08:47:13	PaulFertser	omero: rdisc6 please
2021-07-06 08:47:17	omero	sure
2021-07-06 08:47:32	omero	this might take a while
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2021-07-06 08:48:51	omero	thanks PaulFertser :D
2021-07-06 08:49:18	omero	will have to be afk a while but Ill certainly look into rdisc6/dhcp6 later on
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2021-07-06 08:49:22	PaulFertser	omero: good luck :)
2021-07-06 08:49:34	PaulFertser	omero: what is so special about your target that you're running a special system on it?
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2021-07-06 08:51:03	PaulFertser	omero: for the reference, rdisc6 should be showing something in any case, and if SLAAC should work then the output would include "Prefix" entries, if DHCPv6 is possible it'll say Yes for "Stateful address conf."
2021-07-06 08:51:07	PaulFertser	It can be both at the same time.
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2021-07-06 08:51:43	PaulFertser	omero: and DHCPv6-PD is nice to provide subnets to downstream (real or virtual) routers for distribution.
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2021-07-06 09:08:23	randomuser	Hello.
2021-07-06 09:08:26	randomuser	I'd like to print a pdf.
2021-07-06 09:08:29	randomuser	But CUPS says this: Exception: /var/spool/cups/d00123-001 (offset 149945): unable to find /Root dictionary
2021-07-06 09:08:31	-->	galex-713 (gal@portable.galex-713.eu) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 09:08:32	randomuser	Here is a sample file that I tried to print: http://0x0.st/-f6e.pdf
2021-07-06 09:08:34	autopsy	HIA2U
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2021-07-06 09:11:30	backleet	A bit off topic question. I am thinking of getting another 8GB RAM stick. SKHynix vs Kingston RAM which one wins in terms of quality?
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2021-07-06 09:11:44	ananke	randomuser: grep '/root' /etc/cups/*
2021-07-06 09:11:45	PaulFertser	randomuser: probably your printer supports PDFs directly?
2021-07-06 09:11:50	Psi-Jack	Just brand names alone is useless.
2021-07-06 09:12:20	Psi-Jack	backleet: But, FYI, there's ##hardware (or is it #hardware here? Not sure).
2021-07-06 09:12:30	ananke	backleet: go on amazon, look at the reviews
2021-07-06 09:12:48	backleet	Psi-Jack: you are somewhat right, I will try to compare the models online. Psi-Jack ananke thanks, will do!
2021-07-06 09:12:54	PaulFertser	randomuser: another idea is to add a conversion from that PDF to PS (with pdf2ps) before trying to print it.
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2021-07-06 09:13:08	Psi-Jack	Somewhat? No, pretty much entirely correct. :)
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2021-07-06 09:13:22	ananke	randomuser: oops, i meant grep '/Root' /etc/cups/*
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2021-07-06 09:14:29	randomuser	ananke: Both commands returned nothing.
2021-07-06 09:14:37	backleet	Psi-Jack: yep
2021-07-06 09:14:41	PaulFertser	randomuser: heh, I have an even better idea. I see your file is actually two PDF files concatenated.
2021-07-06 09:14:46	randomuser	Other PDFs work normally.
2021-07-06 09:14:49	PaulFertser	randomuser: it has two %%EOF markers.
2021-07-06 09:14:58	PaulFertser	randomuser: try splitting off the second part and see if it prints.
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2021-07-06 09:15:29	PaulFertser	(inspired by https://github.com/qpdf/qpdf/issues/391)
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2021-07-06 09:16:25	Dagmar	backleet: Of the two companies, Hynix is the only one that actually makes RAM
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2021-07-06 09:16:58	ananke	dang, the '/Root' threw me in a completely wrong direction. it's not an actual path, rather the issue is with PDF file itself
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2021-07-06 09:18:19	randomuser	It prints normally on Windows.
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2021-07-06 09:18:26	randomuser	I'll try to split it.
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2021-07-06 09:18:39	PaulFertser	randomuser: the first part of PDF is just the placeholder, so it's not full file. I'd say it's broken PDF generator. You can test it with QPDF application. Or just convert to PS before printing.
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2021-07-06 09:19:22	PaulFertser	randomuser: the problem is that QPDF considers it to be damaged, and your CUPS is using QPDF library for something, probably counting pages.
2021-07-06 09:19:48	Dagmar	s/QPDF considers it to be/it is/;
2021-07-06 09:20:14	PaulFertser	I have no idea if QPDF can be considered to be reference implementation.
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2021-07-06 09:20:39	Dagmar	It doesn't have to be a reference implementation
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2021-07-06 09:20:50	Dagmar	A PDF shouldn't have two EOF markers
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2021-07-06 09:21:09	Dagmar	...and that probably happened because someone thought it was a good idea to concatenate two of them together
2021-07-06 09:21:16	<--	aklis (~aklis@user/aklis) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 09:21:22	Dagmar	...becuase Windows tolerates it.
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2021-07-06 09:24:51	randomuser	As I see now, the first part is just a template and the second part contains the actual data, so splitting will not help if I understand it correctly.
2021-07-06 09:25:48	coroner	splitting what?
2021-07-06 09:25:56	coroner	An archive
2021-07-06 09:25:56	hodapp	atoms
2021-07-06 09:26:05	coroner	Atomic splitting can be done...
2021-07-06 09:26:08	coroner	But...
2021-07-06 09:26:11	coroner	With...
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2021-07-06 09:26:14	coroner	Get this...
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2021-07-06 09:26:35	hodapp	William Shatner? Is that you?
2021-07-06 09:26:42	<--	PonyBlocks (ponyblocks@user/ponyblocks) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 09:26:52	coroner	Its Mary Bradbury actually here son..
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2021-07-06 09:27:22	PaulFertser	randomuser: yes, convert to PS and print it.
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2021-07-06 09:27:28	randomuser	Isn't a PDF (Portable Document Format) supposed to be, like, portable?
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2021-07-06 09:27:39	PaulFertser	Assuming ghostscript can tolerate that weirdness.
2021-07-06 09:27:45	omegatron	in a perfect world ...
2021-07-06 09:27:46	PaulFertser	randomuser: only when one follows the spec.
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2021-07-06 09:28:51	hodapp	my favorite is how my township used a PDF form for local income tax which could be neither saved nor printed to a PDF (at least not without some hacking)
2021-07-06 09:29:02	<--	CPUOne (thelounge@user/cpuone) has quit (Quit: the lounge - https://webirc.envs.net)
2021-07-06 09:29:12	hodapp	because heaven forbid I accidentally have access to my own data
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2021-07-06 09:37:23	lowin	What's the best and least resource intensive way to sandbox a proprietary software on my system?
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2021-07-06 09:38:41	hodapp	can't really reckon 'best', but Docker can decently sandbox something that is just stupid, not malicious
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2021-07-06 09:39:16	Psi-Jack	podman, for container. qemu for VM.
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2021-07-06 09:40:07	lowin	I guess I can run it in a vm, and set vm to run at startup
2021-07-06 09:40:10	-->	cypris (uid507362@id-507362.tinside.irccloud.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 09:40:15	cypris	What is systemd
2021-07-06 09:40:24	cypris	How do I Uninstall it
2021-07-06 09:41:17	Khaytsus	loltroll
2021-07-06 09:41:29	ananke	popcorn time
2021-07-06 09:41:34	skill	best question ever
2021-07-06 09:41:43	niko	cypris: you do not want to uninstall an important piece of the operating system
2021-07-06 09:41:46	kfrench	You don't really uninstall it.  You just install Windows.
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2021-07-06 09:42:14	cypris	Ok but why does everyone say systemd is bad
2021-07-06 09:42:26	niko	cypris: because nobody likes changes
2021-07-06 09:42:30	Psi-Jack	Everyone doesn't.
2021-07-06 09:42:41	Dagmar	cypris: You should probably try paying attention when "everyone" says that
2021-07-06 09:42:46	Psi-Jack	Only a small clique minority.
2021-07-06 09:42:50	Dagmar	Many of them have very solid reasons for doing so.
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2021-07-06 09:43:02	Psi-Jack	Umm, no, most have no actual reasons./
2021-07-06 09:43:17	Dagmar	Ah I guess that means the people with good reasons don't matter
2021-07-06 09:43:18	Psi-Jack	99.9999% of the haters, have no actual reason.
2021-07-06 09:43:22	niko	often the more loud one are the minotiry
2021-07-06 09:43:25	schillingklaus	systemd is anti-unixish
2021-07-06 09:43:27	-->	CPUOne (thelounge@user/cpuone) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 09:43:32	Psi-Jack	schillingklaus: It's actually not.
2021-07-06 09:43:33	akik	it's hate to call critics haters
2021-07-06 09:43:42	Dagmar	Good to know that system fitness is now accurately decided by mob rule
2021-07-06 09:43:56	Dagmar	I'm sure that will work out just really well over the long term.
2021-07-06 09:44:04	cypris	Ok well they never explain other then "it messed with my file system"
2021-07-06 09:44:12	Psi-Jack	It doesn't.
2021-07-06 09:44:13	akik	cypris: do you have a problem with systemd?
2021-07-06 09:44:50	cypris	Idk
2021-07-06 09:45:04	Dagmar	Sort of like ignoring design models, standards documents, and best practices in favor of "shiny shiny new I wrote this!" hasn't resulted in any security vulnerabilities at all
2021-07-06 09:45:04	cypris	What is systemd
2021-07-06 09:45:24	Nosrep	init system
2021-07-06 09:45:29	Khaytsus	https://google.com/search?q=systemd
2021-07-06 09:45:32	akik	cypris: so you don't know what it is but you want to uninstall it?
2021-07-06 09:45:41	Dagmar	No, he wants to start drama.
2021-07-06 09:45:46	Psi-Jack	Nosrep: So much more.
2021-07-06 09:45:46	Khaytsus	Of course he does
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2021-07-06 09:45:55	Khaytsus	So not sure why anyone is answering it seriously
2021-07-06 09:45:57	cypris	Yes
2021-07-06 09:46:07	<--	keir (~keir@84.69.88.165) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-07-06 09:46:12	cypris	I want to know why some people do not like it
2021-07-06 09:46:21	Dagmar	Well, you can ask survey questions on Reddit.
2021-07-06 09:46:23	cypris	I do not wish to start drama
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2021-07-06 09:46:36	niko	assume good faith
2021-07-06 09:46:38	Nosrep	i mean you don't even need to ask questions on reddit
2021-07-06 09:46:39	ananke	'i'm not a troll' said troll
2021-07-06 09:46:42	Nosrep	there's so much existing ones
2021-07-06 09:46:44	Dagmar	niko: New to IRC, are you?
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2021-07-06 09:46:49	niko	Dagmar: first day
2021-07-06 09:46:51	Psi-Jack	systemd is a set of core tools for the GNU/Linux OS. It includes things like the init system (boot up, service management), NTP time sync, DNS management with stub management, logins, and so many more things.
2021-07-06 09:46:53	cypris	Hey I'm not a troll
2021-07-06 09:47:00	cypris	Everyone calls mr a troll
2021-07-06 09:47:01	Dagmar	niko: _Never_ _assume_ good faith on IRC.
2021-07-06 09:47:03	cypris	Thank you
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2021-07-06 09:47:21	niko	Dagmar: always assume good faith. you are new on IRC ?
2021-07-06 09:47:26	Dagmar	Especially with relatively anonymized providers like irccloud being involved
2021-07-06 09:47:33	cypris	Ok so does systemd mess up dns management often?
2021-07-06 09:47:39	Psi-Jack	cypris: No.
2021-07-06 09:47:44	Dagmar	niko: I have been on IRC probably longer than you have been alive
2021-07-06 09:47:44	cypris	Because that would annoy me fast
2021-07-06 09:47:48	CPUOne	niko: Dagmar's been here since the beginning of time
2021-07-06 09:47:49	Khaytsus	niko: Yeah Dagmar is a noob
2021-07-06 09:47:54	<--	sinaowolabi (~SinaOwola@105.112.70.119) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-06 09:47:57	Khaytsus	And sorry, IRC..  aassume bad faith
2021-07-06 09:48:11	-->	ignis (~ignisf@user/ignis) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 09:48:12	Khaytsus	Especially when one joins #linux and asks "what is systemd"
2021-07-06 09:48:13	niko	Dagmar: hahah, funny
2021-07-06 09:48:25	cypris	Hey well anways so systemd is like windows system32?
2021-07-06 09:48:29	felco	Oh that talk tells a lot about human beings
2021-07-06 09:48:33	CPUOne	cypris: no
2021-07-06 09:48:36	cypris	Does it also operate on rings of kernels
2021-07-06 09:48:39	cypris	Oh ok
2021-07-06 09:48:42	cypris	Scratch that
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2021-07-06 09:48:51	niko	cypris: no, please read that and come back with questions after https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
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2021-07-06 09:49:02	Khaytsus	Stop feeding the trolls, geez
2021-07-06 09:49:11	cypris	Ok I will read it now
2021-07-06 09:49:19	Dagmar	...b-b-b-but good faith because all humans are god's children or some crap
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2021-07-06 09:49:56	cypris	So instead of kernel rings its pid1-7?
2021-07-06 09:49:59	Dagmar	At least our usual trolls put some actual effort into it
2021-07-06 09:50:31	cypris	Pid1 having the highest privilege and that is where systemd starts
2021-07-06 09:50:35	cypris	Very nice
2021-07-06 09:51:09	cypris	So with systemd you can update the system and critical programs without restarts
2021-07-06 09:51:17	Khaytsus	smh
2021-07-06 09:51:22	<--	teddy__ (~teddydd@user/teddydd) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 09:51:30	omegatron	yeah, and make some coffee
2021-07-06 09:51:33	cypris	Supports on demand daemons
2021-07-06 09:51:42	cypris	So why is it bad?
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2021-07-06 09:52:00	CPUOne	you tell me
2021-07-06 09:52:01	cypris	I should ask why people hate it
2021-07-06 09:52:03	Dagmar	Some schools of management expect that survival will come through over-breeding, sort of like cicadas
2021-07-06 09:52:09	ananke	cypris: ask those people
2021-07-06 09:52:19	lacroix	evening all
2021-07-06 09:52:30	omegatron	some people like it, others don't - look up the flame wars about it on the web ..
2021-07-06 09:52:37	cypris	Ok
2021-07-06 09:52:47	cypris	I will go work on something now
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2021-07-06 09:55:13	lacroix	cypris, pid1 is a regular process, nothing special.
2021-07-06 09:55:27	cypris	Ok
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2021-07-06 09:57:08	Helmholtz1	shouldn't printf "\a" produce a bell?
2021-07-06 09:57:08	lacroix	cypris: systemd isn't special to the kernel/ in the sense of standard userspace/kernel separation.
2021-07-06 09:57:40	cypris	Wow windows has a 0day
2021-07-06 09:57:48	Dagmar	Helmholtz: Generally, no.
2021-07-06 09:58:25	Dagmar	Helmholtz: Depending on what you're doing, it could merrily be a literal (because of the backslash escaping) 'a'.
2021-07-06 09:58:43	lacroix	cypris: if you fail to be reasonable, you will be considered a troll and you will be removed.
2021-07-06 09:59:01	Dagmar	lacroix: Heh
2021-07-06 09:59:01	cypris	What i am being reasonable
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2021-07-06 09:59:29	Dagmar	Helmholtz: For it to "be" a bell also requires your terminal definitions consider ^G to be a bell
2021-07-06 10:00:21	Helmholtz1	Dagmar, tput bel should create audible bell, shouldn't it?
2021-07-06 10:00:27	Helmholtz1	How can I enable it?
2021-07-06 10:00:28	Dagmar	In theory
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2021-07-06 10:00:51	Helmholtz1	What is this "PC speaker"?
2021-07-06 10:00:53	Dagmar	If it's not working and you didn't disable it, then the terminal you're using probably doesn't care
2021-07-06 10:01:05	Helmholtz1	Is it motherboard beeper for example in BIOS menU?
2021-07-06 10:01:08	<--	sazawal_ (~sazawal@2409:4043:510:d63:bb0:fede:94ef:e68d) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 10:01:15	Dagmar	GNU screen converts it to a screen flash for good reason
2021-07-06 10:01:34	Helmholtz1	Dagmar, tested in Alacritty/Xfce4-Termina/Xterm/Konsole
2021-07-06 10:01:37	Dagmar	Helmholtz: That's subject to whatever the system architect decided they wanted to do
2021-07-06 10:01:58	Dagmar	Helmholtz: None of those has direct access to the local console
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2021-07-06 10:02:18	Dagmar	They'll be playing a bell sound through /dev/audio or pulseaudio, generally
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2021-07-06 10:02:24	Helmholtz1	I want 80s bel on printf :(
2021-07-06 10:02:32	Dagmar	It's good to want things
2021-07-06 10:02:33	-->	unlink2 (~unlink@p200300ebcf3ae50055b1550759e1ddc5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:02:42	Dagmar	It shows you're not dead.
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2021-07-06 10:03:27	felco	dead bodies are identified by no I/O =]
2021-07-06 10:03:39	Dagmar	Oh if only that were true
2021-07-06 10:03:41	Helmholtz1	Dagmar, (︶︹︺)
2021-07-06 10:03:49	Dagmar	...although it would mean one of my friends would be out of a job
2021-07-06 10:03:56	varaindemian	Have the following piece of code: https://pastebin.com/NCcFAer0 `$2` will hold the values of the keys - `GPU-0.DP-2` etc. Wonder if line 12 is equivalent to `echo "${X[GPU-0.DP-2]}"`
2021-07-06 10:04:01	varaindemian	anyone knows?
2021-07-06 10:04:11	-->	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:04:16	felco	I mean... it may have signal, but if its behaves like an Z pid, well... haha
2021-07-06 10:04:26	-->	Iamthehuman1 (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:04:39	Dagmar	varaindemian: Why can't you just "run it and see"?
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2021-07-06 10:04:58	Dagmar	varaindemian: Literally run it with `bash -x scriptname`
2021-07-06 10:05:01	varaindemian	Dagmar is anything else required here?
2021-07-06 10:05:31	Dagmar	For ONCE, there's nothing in this script that's likely to run amok and destroy Tokyo
2021-07-06 10:05:40	Helmholtz1	even beep doesn't work!
2021-07-06 10:05:45	Dagmar	...meaning you can just run it with -x and bash will show you what it's doing
2021-07-06 10:05:47	Helmholtz1	sudo modprobe pcspkr
2021-07-06 10:05:48	-->	zoli2k (~kuscsik@85.191.191.78) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:05:50	Helmholtz1	I enabled it
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2021-07-06 10:08:01	Dagmar	varaindemian: Line 12 isn't going to be equivalent to anything in particular unless there's some assurances that the second argument is 0.  Additionally, antidepressants usually fix what causes line 1.
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2021-07-06 10:09:36	Dagmar	Actually, strike that.  Associative arrays.  There's still no assurances that line 12 will be equivalent to anything
2021-07-06 10:10:05	felco	Should I learn Lisp?
2021-07-06 10:10:13	felco	Or Haskell
2021-07-06 10:10:23	Dagmar	felco: Have you ever been "attracted" to parentheses?
2021-07-06 10:10:29	Helmholtz1	felco, or jq?
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2021-07-06 10:10:58	Psi-Jack	felco: Have you ever felt the need to rip your own hair out, repeatedly and completely?
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2021-07-06 10:11:11	felco	Not really, but then I was advised that Lisp is good to learn
2021-07-06 10:11:20	Dagmar	felco: Are you perhaps, a graduate student with no real job prospects who wishes to go into research?
2021-07-06 10:11:22	felco	haha
2021-07-06 10:11:40	felco	Not quite, but I want to improve my skill
2021-07-06 10:11:41	Psi-Jack	Heh yeah. lisp was popular, in the stone ages.
2021-07-06 10:11:53	Dagmar	That might be overstating things a bit
2021-07-06 10:12:30	Dagmar	felco: It's a different _type_ of language from most of what's in use today
2021-07-06 10:12:44	Dagmar	So, from that standpoint, it could be a useful experience
2021-07-06 10:12:54	-->	crankharder (~crankhard@static-71-121-154-44.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:12:59	Dagmar	Will you ever get a high-paying job coding in lisp or Haskell?  Probably not.
2021-07-06 10:13:15	<--	torshido (sid249474@fedora/torshido) has quit
2021-07-06 10:13:15	Dagmar	...unless you're at a place that's doing a lot of research.
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2021-07-06 10:13:28	D__	If you get one at all, it's probably going to be high-paying haha
2021-07-06 10:13:36	felco	I see
2021-07-06 10:13:44	D__	Because employers are likely to be desperate, I suppose
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2021-07-06 10:14:24	Dagmar	Heh
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2021-07-06 10:14:30	D__	It's like Delphi developers. They get good money for simple things, because there are still companies who need to maintain old systems
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2021-07-06 10:15:17	hodapp	felco: learn them both to some degree; both languages are good at changing how you may think about programs
2021-07-06 10:15:18	omegatron	felco: why not try programming in Forth?
2021-07-06 10:15:38	hodapp	though with Lisp you'll have to decide which Lisp you want to mess with, e.g. Common Lisp, Scheme, or Clojure
2021-07-06 10:15:43	felco	Oh my god... never someone suggest me Fortran
2021-07-06 10:15:52	<--	P4ddyF (~weechat@user/yogoyo) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 10:15:53	omegatron	would get you some knowledge in OpenFirmware too (most likely)
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2021-07-06 10:16:17	felco	I was looking at study the language so I think it would be Common Lisp
2021-07-06 10:16:25	ananke	felco: you never provided criteria. what's the actual goal here?
2021-07-06 10:16:39	hodapp	consider working through part of SICP if it's Lisp you want to learn
2021-07-06 10:16:45	felco	Learn how to devise better algo
2021-07-06 10:16:47	bewees	What's your favorite text format for notes, excluding latex and markdown? Something like rst vs org mode? I use org mode for a while, but looking at rst it seems to be easier to read and well structuered. Good thing about org-mode, you can collapse sections, I think you can't do that easily with rst
2021-07-06 10:16:53	ananke	felco: say what?
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2021-07-06 10:17:11	felco	Or, how to improve performance
2021-07-06 10:17:17	hodapp	performance of what?
2021-07-06 10:17:17	ananke	felco: again, say what?
2021-07-06 10:17:27	felco	A given algorithm
2021-07-06 10:17:28	akik	bewees: vim is nice
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2021-07-06 10:18:02	hodapp	bewees: I use org like crazy, but one gotcha with org is that while it's very feature-filled it is only a subset of features that other org parsers (e.g. Pandoc, Hugo) can actually handle properly
2021-07-06 10:18:07	cypris	Windows printer spooler has a 0day!
2021-07-06 10:18:13	Dagmar	bewees: You can call it "org mode" all you like, but we know you really mean Emacs
2021-07-06 10:18:16	ananke	cypris: and?
2021-07-06 10:18:22	akik	cypris: it's not relevant and it's not a 0day today
2021-07-06 10:18:25	cypris	Update your computers
2021-07-06 10:18:31	hodapp	in the event that you want to - for instance - read your org notes on your phone, or turn your org notes into webpages or blog posts
2021-07-06 10:18:41	bewees	akik: yes
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2021-07-06 10:19:15	cypris	?
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2021-07-06 10:19:21	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:cyprus] by lacroix
2021-07-06 10:19:27	cypris	Why
2021-07-06 10:19:27	--	Mode #linux [+b $a:cypris] by lacroix
2021-07-06 10:19:37	bewees	Dagmar: Got an android app, features org mode too :-)
2021-07-06 10:19:43	bewees	No emacs involved
2021-07-06 10:19:47	hodapp	bewees: which one, Orgzly?
2021-07-06 10:19:50	bewees	yes Orgzly
2021-07-06 10:19:55	--	Mode #linux [-b $a:cyprus] by lacroix
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2021-07-06 10:20:53	bewees	hodapp: For a todo list org is very useful, because you can collapse the details and still have a good overview of all tasks, but for documentation I rst can be better to read I found
2021-07-06 10:20:54	hodapp	Orgzly works reasonably well but suffers from the usual issue of not handing *all* of org-mode properly
2021-07-06 10:21:04	bewees	-I
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2021-07-06 10:21:14	hodapp	which isn't a huge deal, but it's good to understand which features to avoid
2021-07-06 10:21:14	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-06 10:21:31	Psi-Jack	I gave emacs an honest try once.
2021-07-06 10:21:40	bewees	Unfortunately orgzly doesn't have an undo feature, so you have to be careful when editing
2021-07-06 10:21:46	randomuser	I have tried to convert the pdf.
2021-07-06 10:21:46	randomuser	https://termbin.com/e7cez
2021-07-06 10:21:46	randomuser	Zathura segfaults when I close this converted file. I hate PDFs.
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2021-07-06 10:22:36	Psi-Jack	Ran it for a whole week, with Doom Emacs, which actually made it somewhat bearable, but it was clunky, slow, and worse in memory utilization than vim and vscode combined.
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2021-07-06 10:23:43	bewees	Psi-Jack: maybe auto update was enabled, so every startup it checked for updates?
2021-07-06 10:24:02	akik	Psi-Jack: your system was out of some resources then
2021-07-06 10:24:14	Psi-Jack	Nope, and nope.
2021-07-06 10:24:34	akik	you are entitled to your opinion
2021-07-06 10:24:48	akik	even though it's wrong
2021-07-06 10:24:52	Psi-Jack	This is not my opinion. This is my facts.
2021-07-06 10:24:52	A4L	Does anyone have any idea why proc does not mount with hidepid=2? I am mounting proc into a chroot with hidepid=2 but when I check the `mount` list later, hidepid is not visible... https://of.sijanec.eu/krneki/hidepid.png
2021-07-06 10:24:53	Kyv	amayzin'
2021-07-06 10:25:04	Psi-Jack	And everyone knows you can debate opinions, not not facts.
2021-07-06 10:25:05	randomuser	Windows likes the pdf. Even my zathura likes the pdf. But CUPS doesn't like my pdf.
2021-07-06 10:25:16	<--	Nosrep (~archbox@user/nosrep) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-06 10:25:24	bewees	I think in emacs you have to be careful what files you work with, as with its feature rich modules it may be an easy target of exploits
2021-07-06 10:25:34	Dagmar	A4L: Does the feature you're enabling appear to be _working_?
2021-07-06 10:25:39	coroner	needs port 631 connect through your browsedr and try to print the /PDF
2021-07-06 10:25:47	A4L	No. Chrooted users can see PIDs of others.
2021-07-06 10:26:18	A4L	users that use that procfs in general... I am on Debian 10 (forgot to mention)
2021-07-06 10:26:30	coroner	Good question appear to work chroot hidepid=2 does it fucking work or not?
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2021-07-06 10:26:51	coroner	proc is tmpfs
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2021-07-06 10:27:14	coroner	type proc but shmem nonetheless.
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2021-07-06 10:28:09	Dagmar	A4L: Are those chrooted users _root_?
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2021-07-06 10:28:26	felco	A4L I think it would be right if it didn't return the hidepid param, maybe it is working... chroot to that and see if you can see the pid 2
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2021-07-06 10:29:03	A4L	No, users in chroot are not root.
2021-07-06 10:29:16	akik	what
2021-07-06 10:29:42	Dagmar	'cuz as far as I know those restrictions are implemented through actual permissions restrictions on /proc
2021-07-06 10:29:43	akik	if you run chroot /mnt/point /bin/bash the user is root
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2021-07-06 10:30:04	akik	what is this lunacy
2021-07-06 10:30:15	Dagmar	akik: Yeah but variosu things drop privs for that because chroots aren't secure against the root user
2021-07-06 10:30:56	A4L	akik: if I run this as root then yes, but the user with which I was testing this was chrooted via sshd's ChrootDirectory option.
2021-07-06 10:31:03	Dagmar	This because unless you're using a separate filesystem entirely for hte chroot (and not just some subdirectory) root can modify an inode to point to somewhere it shoudln't and merrily escape the chroot
2021-07-06 10:31:14	schillingklaus	is that the difference to freebsd jails?
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2021-07-06 10:31:34	akik	A4L: doesn't make your statement any more correct
2021-07-06 10:31:41	otisolsen70	What does the "Metric" column mean  in the output of "route -n"  (kernel routing table) I think this is a priority of sorts. But how does it work? Lower number = higher priority? Or something else?
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2021-07-06 10:31:58	Dagmar	otisolsen70: That's pretty much exactly what it is
2021-07-06 10:32:17	-->	akk (~akk@174-28-112-132.albq.qwest.net) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 10:32:20	Dagmar	It's only ever looked at if there is more than one match of the routing table
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2021-07-06 10:33:38	otisolsen70	Dagmar, ok. That is exactly the case for me. That I have two matches in the routing table: https://paste.yt/p15469.html
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2021-07-06 10:33:54	Dagmar	I'm guessing that one or more of the requirements for ChrootDirectory hasn't been adhered to, and sshd isn't actually chrooting the user as a result
2021-07-06 10:33:59	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-07-06 10:34:19	otisolsen70	Dagmar, in this case, can I be sure that it will always use the route going through eth0 (metric=100) over wlan0 (metric=600)?
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2021-07-06 10:34:37	Dagmar	otisolsen70: Props to you for not having a complete @#$#@$-up for a routing table
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2021-07-06 10:34:56	Dagmar	You would be profoundly disappointed at how often people screw that up
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2021-07-06 10:34:58	otisolsen70	Dagmar, thank you, I guess :)
2021-07-06 10:35:07	<--	Pacific_ (~arash@5.124.195.73) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 10:35:12	Dagmar	...and not just a little screwed up, either
2021-07-06 10:35:35	Dagmar	As far as I know it's _always_ going to use the lower metric route
2021-07-06 10:35:54	otisolsen70	Dagmar, even if I have active connections at the time when eth0 is connected?
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2021-07-06 10:36:32	Dagmar	It's been like a decade since I've actually seen someone usefully using metric
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2021-07-06 10:36:46	otisolsen70	Dagmar, lets say I have this routing table at boot up: https://paste.yt/p15472.html then at some point eth0 is connected and I get the one that was referenced previously. But I will then have active (VPN) connections...
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2021-07-06 10:37:11	Dagmar	In theory it's always going to use the lowest metric route
2021-07-06 10:37:12	FreeBDSM	Hi. Even after reading the docs https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.mount.html#x-initrd.mount - I don't really understand what the mount option 'x-initrd.mount' in /etc/fstab does. Could someone, please, explain?
2021-07-06 10:37:22	Dagmar	Metric is assumed to be "cost"
2021-07-06 10:37:45	Dagmar	It's not inconceivable that some ICMP instruction might make the kernel use a higher metric, but in practice it just doesn't happen
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2021-07-06 10:37:49	otisolsen70	Dagmar, makes sense. So I guess the VPN connections would then automatically be routed through the ethernet when it is connected, right?
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2021-07-06 10:38:16	Dagmar	Yeah
2021-07-06 10:38:20	Dagmar	When it's not connected the route shoudlnt' be there
2021-07-06 10:38:21	felco	otisolsen70 some resource: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/425924/in-linux-what-metric-has-a-route-with-no-metric
2021-07-06 10:39:01	otisolsen70	Dagmar, great. Then the next question that comes to mind is: can I in any way set the  metric parameter manually?
2021-07-06 10:39:06	Dagmar	Yeah
2021-07-06 10:39:20	Dagmar	Just like you can set the IP address, MAC address, network size, etc
2021-07-06 10:39:33	otisolsen70	Or how is it determined by default? How does it "know" to use eth over wlan0 in this case?
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2021-07-06 10:39:43	Dagmar	It's just generally not necessary because almost no one has multiple routes to the exact same IPv4 subnet normally
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2021-07-06 10:39:56	Dagmar	By 'default' metric never comes into play
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2021-07-06 10:40:16	Dagmar	...because most people do not have multiple routes to anything.
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2021-07-06 10:40:38	Dagmar	If and only if you have _two_ exact matches for a routing calculation will metric be looked at.
2021-07-06 10:40:41	otisolsen70	Dagmar, ok, but how did it determine to set it to 100 for eth0 and 600 for wlan0? I did not do this...
2021-07-06 10:40:45	Dagmar	(well, two or more)
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2021-07-06 10:40:53	Dagmar	Usualyl it's some crap like link speed
2021-07-06 10:41:03	otisolsen70	Dagmar, ah. OK
2021-07-06 10:41:12	felco	seems like that metric is defined per OS, software managing it or else
2021-07-06 10:41:15	Dagmar	It's strictly a guess made until a grown-up comes along and configures it more meaningfully
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2021-07-06 10:43:41	felco	https://serverfault.com/questions/648276/routing-selection-specificity-vs-metric
2021-07-06 10:44:03	Dagmar	felco: THat person is brain damaged
2021-07-06 10:44:31	felco	oh man..
2021-07-06 10:44:49	Dagmar	"I understand that Linux does X thing, but what about maybe doing Y thing?  Does it do Y thing when I've been told it does X thing?"
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2021-07-06 10:45:15	Dagmar	The reason metric is often just not even covered is how infrequently it comes into play
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2021-07-06 10:45:32	Dagmar	If metric is ever going to be looked at, usually one of two conditions is in play:
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2021-07-06 10:45:54	Dagmar	1. The link speed guesses are accurate enough that it's going to do what they want ...or...
2021-07-06 10:46:10	Dagmar	2. THe network administrators are idiots and created a routing table full of garbage
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2021-07-06 10:47:07	Dagmar	'cuz let's be serious.  The odds you're going to want to use the route that uses 10base-T over sketchy cat3 rather than a gigglebit fiber connection are pretty much zero.
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2021-07-06 10:47:39	felco	I haven't been on the routing table for a while... the only time I have to hit it is where I have more than one subnet, so I have more than one gateway
2021-07-06 10:47:42	Dagmar	If you've made two matching routes with identical metrics, you've usually just screwed up
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2021-07-06 10:48:03	Dagmar	"Bonding" is a separate thing for good reason
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2021-07-06 10:48:37	Dagmar	Ethernet bonding has a protocol all to itself to that two identical (or reasonably identical) links can be used simultaneously with some efficiency
2021-07-06 10:48:57	Dagmar	...and with respect to the routing table, a bonded ethernet pair is _one_ interafce.
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2021-07-06 10:49:10	Dagmar	s/to that/so that/
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2021-07-06 10:50:29	felco	I think that guy was looking for something like "I want to plug both wireless and ethernet, but I want to go through ethernet always"
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2021-07-06 10:51:11	felco	I think the gnome network manager will do that, for the most time if it sees it fits, no need to mess the routing table
2021-07-06 10:51:15	Dagmar	Well, that's both reasonable _and_ what happens by default
2021-07-06 10:51:20	Dagmar	It's also what was in his routing table
2021-07-06 10:51:29	felco	Yeah
2021-07-06 10:51:39	Dagmar	I think it was a matter of he just didn't know _why_ it was working so he didn't have a guarantee that it would continue doing so
2021-07-06 10:51:53	Dagmar	...but metric isn't trying to be fancy.  It's not BGP or OSPF.
2021-07-06 10:52:20	Dagmar	There's generally nothing about it that's going to make someone want to chuck a 1U out a window
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2021-07-06 10:53:49	Budd	I notice that on my babel-routed system, all the routs have the same 1024 metric, so apparently babeld isn't propagating its own metric into the routing table - just the best route for the moment.
2021-07-06 10:54:04	Dagmar	I think _because_ it's so seldom-used we have a slight advantage over Windows
2021-07-06 10:54:19	Dagmar	Microsoft has a list of metrics that are used, which is showing its age
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2021-07-06 10:54:36	Dagmar	A gigabit ethernet connection is all that's required to get a '5' assigned.
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2021-07-06 10:54:56	felco	Usually I have a better xp in linux towards networks speed
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2021-07-06 10:55:20	Dagmar	Give it ten more years when probably 10Gb ethernet will be standard for running a spare connection to the garage and we'll see how many places someone's hard-coded those values
2021-07-06 10:55:34	felco	But it is hard to tell... maybe I biased torwards Linux
2021-07-06 10:55:49	Dagmar	No, the LInux networking stack is genuinely faster
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2021-07-06 10:56:32	Dagmar	It's been a given for the past 25 years that if I need to race a Windows machine for something on local ethernet, my linux box will win every time
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2021-07-06 10:57:05	felco	haha yeah, same perception
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2021-07-06 10:57:10	Dagmar	Until they "fixed" it, stealing an IP address right out from under a Windows machine just required a quick entry in the ARP table and a couple of terrifying looking iptables ruels
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2021-07-06 11:02:20	Dagmar	(mind you it can still be done, it just takes more effort than that now)
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2021-07-06 11:03:51	otisolsen70	Dagmar, felco: thanks for your help. Is there any risk that the tun routes  (VPNs) will affect which route it will take? I do not think so. They are resolved first, right. And then the packets going through the tunnels are wrapped in another packet that goes through either wlan0 or eth0 determined by the Metric, righT?
2021-07-06 11:04:26	Dagmar	otisolsen70: The question as stated is a little bit wooly, but no
2021-07-06 11:04:57	otisolsen70	Dagmar, yes it is. Sorry. Will try to be more specific...
2021-07-06 11:05:09	Dagmar	Once a packet goes into the tunnel interface, the original destination address is gone inside the envelope and is no longer sometrhing the routing table cares about
2021-07-06 11:05:23	A4L	Weird... Even if I bind-mount /proc to /var/xxx/proc and set the mode=700 or umask=007 option, those options do not show up in the `mount` list afterwards, all other options do... But if I set an invalid option, let's say hidepid=invisible, only available in kernel version 5.2 AFAIK, dmesg will complain, otherwise it will simply ignore those options.
2021-07-06 11:05:25	Dagmar	THe packet is now "just data" and part of the payload of the packet constructed by the tunnel interface
2021-07-06 11:05:30	otisolsen70	Dagmar, right. So there is no risk that the vpn tunnels will ever influence this.
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2021-07-06 11:05:46	otisolsen70	Dagmar, thanks.
2021-07-06 11:05:53	Dagmar	There's nothing magical about TUN devices
2021-07-06 11:06:15	Dagmar	This is why I VASTLY PREFER them to the bloody magical way most of the ipsec VPN clients work now
2021-07-06 11:06:21	otisolsen70	Dagmar, just curious, but what does the Flags mean? (UG, UH, U, etc)
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2021-07-06 11:06:34	Dagmar	No packets are being cherry picked out of or into the data stream whatsoever
2021-07-06 11:06:42	Dagmar	Unicast, Host, Gateway, etc
2021-07-06 11:06:56	otisolsen70	Right
2021-07-06 11:07:14	otisolsen70	Thanks for clearing this all up. I learned quite a bit.
2021-07-06 11:07:20	Dagmar	No sweat
2021-07-06 11:07:36	otisolsen70	Oh. One more thing...
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2021-07-06 11:08:14	Dagmar	Usually questiosn about the metric happen because someone's trying to use it to override something that's working correctly, and what they're trying to do is dumb as well
2021-07-06 11:08:41	otisolsen70	IN this specifici case I have eth0 and wlan0 on the exact same subnet. so this is why metric is used. What if both are on two separate ADSL connections for instance. How does it determine which one to use for upstream?
2021-07-06 11:08:57	Dagmar	Blind luck
2021-07-06 11:09:06	otisolsen70	Then I guess there would be two entries with destination=0.0.0.0 and gateway being different.
2021-07-06 11:09:20	Dagmar	Any time you've got a numeric sort happening for something, and you have two identical values, do not expect the result to be predictable or regular
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2021-07-06 11:09:34	curdlesnoot	A4L: hidepid is a meaningful option in the context of procfs, so it wouldn't be right not to scrutinize the option's value. I suppose that's why.
2021-07-06 11:09:47	Dagmar	Such values can be laughingly referred to as being in "hash order"
2021-07-06 11:10:09	Dagmar	...meaning whichever comes first comes down to how they're stored in memory and may change from moment to moment for no apparent reason
2021-07-06 11:10:15	otisolsen70	Dagmar, ok, so it may actually change at any time... So some packets going out through eth0 and others through wlan0. And thus break any tcp conection
2021-07-06 11:10:31	Dagmar	No that's unlikely to break an existing connection
2021-07-06 11:11:12	Dagmar	It may however, play hob with any new connections going out, since lots of things bind to 0.0.0.0 and let the _kernel_ decide what the source address is based on the destination and routing table generally indicating an optimal outbound interface
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2021-07-06 11:11:45	Dagmar	You might have the first conneciton going out through interface B using interface B's IP address, and the next one and six or seven after it using interface A and interface A's address
2021-07-06 11:12:07	Dagmar	You MIGHT have it just using interface A all the time, until the one day it decides to up and break.
2021-07-06 11:12:32	Dagmar	Technically the behaviour is 'undefined' but it's safer to assume that it's 'sociopathic'
2021-07-06 11:13:35	Dagmar	Remmeber, the OSI model only works because of assumptions made that each layer is not stark-raving insanity
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2021-07-06 11:15:14	otisolsen70	Dagmar, got it.
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2021-07-06 11:15:47	Dagmar	That puts you a step ahead of systemd developers, then
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2021-07-06 11:16:19	otisolsen70	Dagmar, what I am a bit worried about is the situation where, say, eth0 is connected to an active link. However, that link does not go anywhere because of some upstream routing problem. And the wifi is also connected to a working connection. Then I will experience failing connections.
2021-07-06 11:16:38	Dagmar	Let me simplify that sentence for you...
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2021-07-06 11:16:55	Dagmar	"I worry that when some host along the route is down that packets will be lost"
2021-07-06 11:17:19	Dagmar	This is why we have TCP retransmission and UDP is just not to be trusted with such packets.  ;)
2021-07-06 11:17:46	varaindemian	how can I replace the `700,600` in `wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -e 0,300,200,700,600;`  with this tkey in X : `echo "${X[GPU-0.DP-2]}"`?
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2021-07-06 11:18:05	Dagmar	Whether or not you have one or nine possible interfaces isn't really going to change what happens when there's a routing failure somewhere on the internet
2021-07-06 11:18:27	Dagmar	If you need that kind of assurance, your options involve spending a lot of money on an ASN and running a full BGP gateway
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2021-07-06 11:18:43	Dagmar	There is no "or" to that.  It's definitely "and".
2021-07-06 11:18:47	otisolsen70	Dagmar, yeah, not really though. Because this is a device that will be moved around a lot. And connected to various different networks. And it will also connect to various wifi networks. It must always have a working connection. And it should prioritize ethernet when available. But NOT if ethernet is not actually working. E.g. if it is connected to a LAN without any connectivity to internet.
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2021-07-06 11:19:19	Dagmar	Then don't connect it to a dead ethernet network and add routes pointing to the dead network
2021-07-06 11:19:52	Dagmar	Google and Apple both have a pretty handy mechanism for testing a network connection to see "if there's some internets on it"
2021-07-06 11:19:54	mixfix41	its also pretty hands on to do so once you need to do it you will figure it out or figure some of it
2021-07-06 11:20:05	otisolsen70	Dagmar, of course. However, it is not so easy as this is something that must work automatically. There is  no keyboard, or monitor connected to this device. It is a small embedded device.
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2021-07-06 11:20:51	Dagmar	otisolsen70: Then I suggest rather strongly that you connect *any* Android or iOS device to a wireless AP on a network you can sniff traffic and learn about how their status 204 check works
2021-07-06 11:21:06	Dagmar	It's not super-hard to emulate
2021-07-06 11:21:13	otisolsen70	Dagmar, status 204 check?
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2021-07-06 11:21:27	Dagmar	...but basically, if you just assume internets are there and you've got a requirement that internets are there, you have just failed
2021-07-06 11:21:49	Dagmar	...unless, of course, you can somehow be guaranteed that no one will ever connect it to a network that's not "on" the internet.
2021-07-06 11:22:06	Dagmar	otisolsen70: They basically do a quick http query of a site out on the internet
2021-07-06 11:22:27	Dagmar	otisolsen70: If they get the response they expect then they consider it safe to presume there's unfiltered internet
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2021-07-06 11:22:45	Dagmar	otisolsen70: If they get back any other response, it's generally a sign there's a capture portal in the way
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2021-07-06 11:22:59	otisolsen70	Dagmar, I see that. So I need something more. Maybe I can have a process that periodically fetches some URL I host and know to work. Then if that URL does not respond within $timeout, then it should do $something. But what it should do I am not sure. I guess it should determine which NIC it was trying to use and then remove the route for this NIC if it does not work....
2021-07-06 11:23:00	Dagmar	otisolsen70: If they get *no* response, then it's not internet.
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2021-07-06 11:23:29	Dagmar	otisolsen70: Not much point.
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2021-07-06 11:24:00	Dagmar	otisolsen70: You'll be crossing the line into attempting to detect whether or not the network works correctly from moment to moment and there is no way to do that perfectly
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2021-07-06 11:25:52	Dagmar	You're not technically even guaranteed nowadays that two connections to teh same remote host will even take the same path
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2021-07-06 11:25:52	varaindemian	anyone?
2021-07-06 11:25:52	Dagmar	...and unless your testing is a literal freakin' torrent of packets, you'll always have a wonderful window of time where the internet may well be down and you just haven't detected it yet.
2021-07-06 11:25:52	Dagmar	So, stop trying to guarantee layer 2 with layer 4.  It will never work.
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2021-07-06 11:26:36	UNIXCHAD_	if i delete my swap partition
2021-07-06 11:26:59	UNIXCHAD_	and dd my sda to a flash drive
2021-07-06 11:27:08	UNIXCHAD_	will it copy the data?
2021-07-06 11:27:31	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: what's the actual value of your example array element, just to be clear?
2021-07-06 11:27:35	UNIXCHAD_	because my da is bigger that the flash drive only with the swap partition
2021-07-06 11:28:00	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: and what are you intending to operate on? an input stream? the value of an existing variable? something else?
2021-07-06 11:28:04	UNIXCHAD_	s/da/sda
2021-07-06 11:28:19	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: or just compose arguments to call out to wmctrl?
2021-07-06 11:28:34	varaindemian	curdlesnoot thevalue is 700,600
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2021-07-06 11:28:38	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: ok
2021-07-06 11:28:50	A4L	curdlesnoot: well, I can only assume systemd or some other debian specific component is doing something... same command on my MIPS router that sets the proc hidepid=2 option _works_, but it does not on two of my debian computers...
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2021-07-06 11:29:56	curdlesnoot	A4L: hidepid has been around since 3.3, but I can't recall offhand whether 2 is relatively new.
2021-07-06 11:30:26	UNIXCHAD_	anyone?
2021-07-06 11:32:02	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: and where is "wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -e 0,300,200,700,600;" coming into it? a little bit of sample code might help. you almost make it sound as if it should be a string substitution (which seems weird).
2021-07-06 11:32:15	curdlesnoot	as opposed to argument composition, for instance.
2021-07-06 11:32:48	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: Provided that everything you said is actually true, then yes
2021-07-06 11:32:56	varaindemian	argument substiturion
2021-07-06 11:33:08	curdlesnoot	UNIXCHAD_: dd is a file copying tool. without options to the contrary, it will copy the entirety of the file that give it (including files that are block devices).
2021-07-06 11:33:38	varaindemian	curdlesnoot basically those aguments will be different based on the key I was talking about
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2021-07-06 11:34:54	UNIXCHAD_	curdlesnoot: Dagmar so i should be able to remove the swap and dd will not copy unpartitiond space yes?
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2021-07-06 11:35:00	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: some context would be really useful at this point. it's not clear why you wouldn't, say, just call out to wmctrl -r :ACTIVE -e 0,300,200,"${array[key]}". or, maintain an indexed array of the the coordinates, manipulate those and expand it after -e.
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2021-07-06 11:35:19	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: I'm not doing your thinking for you
2021-07-06 11:35:25	curdlesnoot	UNIXCHAD_: "it will copy the entirety of the file", so no.
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2021-07-06 11:35:57	curdlesnoot	ergo, /dev/sda ... all of it.
2021-07-06 11:36:29	curdlesnoot	it doesn't care about the contained data, any more than cp would arbitrarily decide to skip portions of a file based on contents (which, of course, it doesn't).
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2021-07-06 11:37:54	UNIXCHAD_	ill just buy a bigger usb that seems to be the only way
2021-07-06 11:38:01	Dagmar	dd neither knows nor cares about partitions.
2021-07-06 11:38:46	UNIXCHAD_	8 gb isn't enough anyway
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2021-07-06 11:39:00	Dagmar	Well, that's probably true enough
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2021-07-06 11:39:13	Dagmar	That's just barely worth a vendor keeping in stock nowadays
2021-07-06 11:39:23	curdlesnoot	varaindemian: just as something to consider: if you had an array like mvarg=(0 300 200 700 600) to begin with, manipulation would become trivial and you could invoke the command as: wmctrl ... -e "$(IFS=,; printf %s "${mvarg[*]}")"
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2021-07-06 11:39:46	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: Allow me to suggest ratehr strongly that you buy Sandisk
2021-07-06 11:40:03	UNIXCHAD_	can i increase the size of my root & swap partions when its on the new thing
2021-07-06 11:40:04	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: And *not* some no-name media that doesn't make promises about class or write speeds
2021-07-06 11:40:16	Dagmar	You can do anything you put your mind to.
2021-07-06 11:40:26	Dagmar	Unless stated, always assume the write speed of any flash media is crap.
2021-07-06 11:40:28	schillingklaus	dagmar is a sales manager of the sandisk corp
2021-07-06 11:40:36	UNIXCHAD_	Dagmar: why sandisk
2021-07-06 11:40:37	MrKeuner	hi everyone, do you have a recommendation for a backup solution for home computers? There are Linux as well as Windows and Mac boxes to backup...
2021-07-06 11:40:40	Dagmar	Because they don't lie
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2021-07-06 11:40:52	Dagmar	...and they typically don't "deal" in class 1 or class 2 media anymore ever
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2021-07-06 11:41:06	Dagmar	These days it should be "class 10 or GTFO"
2021-07-06 11:41:15	UNIXCHAD_	mine is sandisk but if i wanted to install tails on it i cant
2021-07-06 11:41:31	guest649	MrKeuner: what kind of solution do you mean?
2021-07-06 11:41:41	Dagmar	...and being that the specs define that as _read_ speeds there are vendors who have no prblem shipping media that can read at 10Mb/s but still only write at 2Mb/s (which is crap)
2021-07-06 11:42:20	Dagmar	Well, maybe not _all_ of the posisble packages but you should be able to get a Linux installation to fit on an 8Gb thumbdrive
2021-07-06 11:42:26	peetaur	MrKeuner: for linux, borg might be best, and burp works great too. for windows burp works great. and for mac... I think we just do time machine over nfs (I don't manage this at all... mac is self-supported here, and I am not a mac guy)
2021-07-06 11:42:26	MrKeuner	guest649, I'd like to set up a service on my server so that when at home, all those laptops can backup periodically
2021-07-06 11:42:50	peetaur	maybe cifs, not nfs
2021-07-06 11:43:01	guest649	MrKeuner: I see
2021-07-06 11:43:02	UNIXCHAD_	Dagmar: yes but i want my arch installp..
2021-07-06 11:43:15	Dagmar	Haha very funny
2021-07-06 11:43:22	<--	roo- (~roo-@191.96.100.25) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 11:43:26	UNIXCHAD_	??
2021-07-06 11:43:33	UNIXCHAD_	what is?
2021-07-06 11:43:43	Dagmar	"doing" arch on flash media
2021-07-06 11:43:43	<--	LiftLeft (~LiftLeft@212.102.59.186) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 11:43:50	MrKeuner	peetaur, does Mac and Windows support backing up to WebDAV by any chance?
2021-07-06 11:44:12	UNIXCHAD_	why tho
2021-07-06 11:44:28	guest649	MrKeuner: which server do you use? I assume all are connected to it
2021-07-06 11:44:30	Dagmar	MrKeuner: So you don't mind other people reading your files?
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2021-07-06 11:45:18	curdlesnoot	UNIXCHAD_: for normall partitions, you can trivially increase the size provided that there is unused disk space beyond the end boundary of the partition into which it can 'grow'. it's a one-two of pushing the end boundary upwards then telling the filesystem to consume the newly available space.
2021-07-06 11:45:19	MrKeuner	guest649, I can install any server I guess, I already have a truenas instance running that I am toying with
2021-07-06 11:45:28	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: Because I have yet to see an arch user who wasn't hot and bothered to compile everything themsevles, and that's exactly the sort of thing that suffers horribly from poor write performance (which thumbdrives are always subject to even when they're GOOD thumbdrives) and murders flash media
2021-07-06 11:45:28	MrKeuner	Dagmar, why would that be?
2021-07-06 11:45:51	Dagmar	MrKeuner: because WebDAV is not secure
2021-07-06 11:46:00	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-06 11:46:16	Dagmar	If two users can access the same webdav store, they can both read each others files
2021-07-06 11:46:31	MrKeuner	Dagmar, I don't think that's accurate
2021-07-06 11:46:32	Dagmar	It's as "safe" as an open box on a desk someplace.
2021-07-06 11:46:42	MrKeuner	You can setup webdav to use multiple users
2021-07-06 11:46:51	Dagmar	MrKeuner: I think you're a mac user
2021-07-06 11:47:01	MrKeuner	Debian here
2021-07-06 11:47:06	goddard	any way i can let a normal user get power status?
2021-07-06 11:47:11	UNIXCHAD_	Dagmar: what about portable hardrives
2021-07-06 11:47:13	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.229.193.25) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 11:47:21	goddard	this requires sudo
2021-07-06 11:47:22	goddard	cat '/sys/class/powercap/intel-rapl:0/constraint_0_power_limit_uw'
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2021-07-06 11:47:44	themachine	goddard: add user to the sudo group but allow that specific command to be run without a pw
2021-07-06 11:47:47	themachine	would be one option
2021-07-06 11:47:59	goddard	how do you do that?
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2021-07-06 11:48:06	goddard	never heard of that
2021-07-06 11:48:27	themachine	https://askubuntu.com/questions/159007/how-do-i-run-specific-sudo-commands-without-a-password
2021-07-06 11:48:35	UNIXCHAD_	goddard: i alias sudo to please
2021-07-06 11:48:49	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: Spinners will work just fine for workloads involving lots of individual writes
2021-07-06 11:48:52	guest649	MrKeuner: well, samba works with linux and windows; not sure about mac
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2021-07-06 11:49:07	curdlesnoot	guest649: the mac smb client works fine.
2021-07-06 11:49:13	goddard	thats cool thanks
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2021-07-06 11:49:22	UNIXCHAD_	Dagmar: fidget spinners?
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2021-07-06 11:49:37	guest649	MrKeuner: when you get a system which works with all, you just run cron commands and do periodic backups
2021-07-06 11:49:45	Dagmar	UNIXCHAD_: _not_ SSD/flash media.  Spinning disks.
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2021-07-06 11:50:25	mixfix41	yea but hes talking less than 80 gig drives
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2021-07-06 11:50:33	guest649	curdlesnoot: ok
2021-07-06 11:50:35	UNIXCHAD_	a jewtoober told me that ssd = computer fast
2021-07-06 11:50:46	guest649	good to know
2021-07-06 11:50:48	sticky	"jewtoober" ? wtf
2021-07-06 11:50:50	mixfix41	and you can land 128 gig thumbdrives for ten bucks at times
2021-07-06 11:50:52	Dagmar	...and into the ignore list they go
2021-07-06 11:50:59	sticky	indeed @Dagmar
2021-07-06 11:51:08	mixfix41	ah
2021-07-06 11:51:17	mixfix41	yeah that inappropriate
2021-07-06 11:51:18	MrKeuner	guest649, sure for basic backup, yes. Things like deduplication, fast browse, read, write access, efficient compression, etc would be nice, too.
2021-07-06 11:51:24	UNIXCHAD_	oh that's a meme
2021-07-06 11:51:30	MrKeuner	I see there is a backuppc tool.
2021-07-06 11:51:51	MrKeuner	I wonder what other people are recommending for the service to run that accepts all clients
2021-07-06 11:51:59	UNIXCHAD_	Dagmar: ignore list?
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2021-07-06 11:52:44	UNIXCHAD_	yooo
2021-07-06 11:52:52	guest649	MrKeuner: I see; I just separate all backups and start again from scratch, let's say. I do manual work :) .
2021-07-06 11:53:04	UNIXCHAD_	DONT IGNORE ME!!!!
2021-07-06 11:53:04	Dagmar	Everything can talk to a something, once it's had client software for that something installed.
2021-07-06 11:53:14	MrKeuner	guest649, That's what I do currently, too :)
2021-07-06 11:53:19	guest649	hehe
2021-07-06 11:53:21	-->	soufiane (~soufiane@41.227.146.95) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 11:53:25	Dagmar	...but not everything uses a mechanism whose RFC considers all reasonable security measures to be _optional_
2021-07-06 11:53:36	-->	greatcoof (~greatcoof@197.48.77.103) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 11:54:01	UNIXCHAD_	what is an ignore list
2021-07-06 11:54:25	-->	FloridaMan (~FloridaMa@user/floridaman) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 11:54:26	guest649	UNIXCHAD_: I cant read you, you are into my ignore list :)
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2021-07-06 11:54:50	guest649	UNIXCHAD_: must be chat ignore command
2021-07-06 11:55:15	-->	Helmholtz1 (~Helmholtz@user/helmholtz) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 11:55:22	UNIXCHAD_	oh...
2021-07-06 11:55:32	Helmholtz1	does `date` have a switch for relative mode? Like 2 minutes ago?
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2021-07-06 11:55:54	Budd	date --date "2 minutes ago"
2021-07-06 11:55:57	Dagmar	WEll, it can do time computations similar to thaty
2021-07-06 11:56:02	curdlesnoot	no. it does, however, accept expressions to that end.
2021-07-06 11:56:25	Budd	Just used that myself to convert uptime to absolute boot time.
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2021-07-06 11:56:58	curdlesnoot	Budd: what, like `uptime -s`?
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2021-07-06 11:57:16	Helmholtz1	Byteflux, sorry. I meant I input a date, and it shows the result of conversion relative to now
2021-07-06 11:57:20	Budd	You can also do date +%s to get current seconds, subtract the right number, then convert back to a readable date.
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2021-07-06 11:57:36	Helmholtz1	like detect when 1625586377 was
2021-07-06 11:57:37	Dagmar	There's no need to do that
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2021-07-06 11:57:57	Dagmar	THe whole point of the --date argument is to supply the date command with a new timestamp
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2021-07-06 11:58:48	curdlesnoot	Helmholtz1: given 1625586377, what would you expect the answer to be? are you trying to subtract it from an epoch that represents 'now'?
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2021-07-06 11:59:06	Helmholtz1	curdlesnoot, I expect it to be ~30 mintutes ago
2021-07-06 11:59:13	Budd	From the man page: date --date='@2147483647'
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2021-07-06 11:59:38	curdlesnoot	Helmholtz1: if you mean that you expect an output string to the effect of "30 minutes ago", date doesn't do that.
2021-07-06 11:59:47	Helmholtz1	curdlesnoot, ok thanks
2021-07-06 11:59:51	Dagmar	YOu don't have to "do the math" yourself because that's also the bit that understands things like "@123456789" (meaning epoch seconds)  and "Tue Jan 21 14:35 CDT 2021 - 4 days"
2021-07-06 11:59:53	curdlesnoot	you'd need to use something else.
2021-07-06 12:00:28	Dagmar	You are perfectly welcome to do "@1234567890 - 5" but that would be silly
2021-07-06 12:00:36	curdlesnoot	perhaps a scripting language with a date/time library that can generate fashionably vague deltas.
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2021-07-06 12:00:51	Dagmar	curdlesnoot: MOst people just scribble up some perl for that
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2021-07-06 12:01:12	curdlesnoot	Dagmar: that's a choice I can get behind.
2021-07-06 12:01:12	Budd	IIRC, some standard utility (cron?) accepts 'teatime' as a valid time of day.
2021-07-06 12:01:13	drip	i copy and paste off stackoverflow, because the languages i want a human readable relative time have someone posting that
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2021-07-06 12:02:20	curdlesnoot	Dagmar: Number::Denominal is quite neat.
2021-07-06 12:02:35	Dagmar	I jsut have a few functions that I recycle
2021-07-06 12:02:49	Dagmar	...including an oxfordJoin() function
2021-07-06 12:03:12	Dagmar	Betcha can't guess what it does
2021-07-06 12:03:17	Dagmar	heh
2021-07-06 12:03:18	curdlesnoot	you are correct. I can't.
2021-07-06 12:03:21	Budd	adds commas to lists.
2021-07-06 12:03:43	Budd	including before the 'and'.
2021-07-06 12:03:44	Dagmar	Adds commas to lists _and_ the word "and" where appropriate, as well as implements the oxford comma
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2021-07-06 12:04:00	curdlesnoot	oh. I though you were talking about a date or time related function. I see.
2021-07-06 12:04:21	Dagmar	I have a slew of "epochToHumanTime" and "timeAsDistance" functions.  Things like that
2021-07-06 12:04:46	Budd	Dagmar: I could use something like that for local ordinances, including something that flags ambiguity.
2021-07-06 12:05:01	Dagmar	After the 20th or 30th time it's just no longer interesting to solve those problems anymore
2021-07-06 12:05:41	beltwaybob	That's not as important as this bonghit
2021-07-06 12:05:49	Dagmar	pretty much
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2021-07-06 12:06:04	schillingklaus	do yankee doodles even use the Oxford comma?
2021-07-06 12:06:26	themachine	if they refer to themselves as yankee doodles then probably not
2021-07-06 12:06:27	Budd	Definitely.
2021-07-06 12:07:29	beltwaybob	yankee doodle comma
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2021-07-06 12:07:44	Dagmar	curdlesnoot: In principle I don't much care for that particular library.  It took me a few to remember why.
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2021-07-06 12:11:41	bdax	does anyone know if any of the async file io apis (posix aio, linux aio, io_uring) can be used with select/poll?
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2021-07-06 12:17:29	Dagmar	Right now I'm really wishing there was a perl library to do Rolodex-style splits of lists of names
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2021-07-06 12:18:08	beltwaybob	rolodex style?
2021-07-06 12:18:35	beltwaybob	isnt that just sorted by the name, e.g. Smith, Ada. Smith, Bob. Smith, Charles
2021-07-06 12:18:35	beltwaybob	etc
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2021-07-06 12:19:04	Dagmar	Yeah.  'Abl-Axo', 'Axy-Bro', 'Bud-Cer' with no name being in more than one category
2021-07-06 12:19:33	beltwaybob	that doesnt sound incredibly hard
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2021-07-06 12:19:38	Dagmar	Someone just expanded the load of one of the tools I maintain so a simple picklist of all the names isn't going to cut it anymore
2021-07-06 12:19:42	FloridaMan	Dagmar: we may be too old for these youngsters to know what a Rolodex is
2021-07-06 12:19:43	Dagmar	It's more complex than you'd think
2021-07-06 12:19:53	Dagmar	FloridaMan: Hahehah
2021-07-06 12:20:04	k2gremlin	Hello all. cloning a Ubuntu 20.04 VM. Trying to change the hostname using hostnamectl set-hostname command. However, it's not persisting through reboot. Missing something?
2021-07-06 12:20:12	Helmholtz1	can date convert millis to date?
2021-07-06 12:20:20	Helmholtz1	I mean EPOCH in millis
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2021-07-06 12:20:35	Dagmar	Helmholtz: Sure, if you round or truncate to whole seconds
2021-07-06 12:20:41	curdlesnoot	FloridaMan: or, in some cases, old enough to remember them but not old enough to have had any purpose in owning one.
2021-07-06 12:20:50	Dagmar	@number is epoch seconds, as in "seconds"
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2021-07-06 12:20:51	danielrparks	k2gremlin: edit /etc/hostname
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2021-07-06 12:21:35	Dagmar	k2gremlin: That _should_ actually be doing the thing, assuming you remembered to pass --static, --transient, --pretty, --secret, and --party
2021-07-06 12:21:37	ananke	k2gremlin: what's the environment like? is this in any of the cloud providers?
2021-07-06 12:21:38	FloridaMan	curdlesnoot: yeah mine was like a yellow pages rolodex because I didn't have enough friends nor family to have actual people in mine hahaha
2021-07-06 12:21:39	Dagmar	Well, maybe not hte last two
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2021-07-06 12:21:43	curdlesnoot	FloridaMan: heh heh
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2021-07-06 12:22:51	Rey	is there a mint linux room?
2021-07-06 12:23:03	curdlesnoot	k2gremlin: what's your method of discerning what the current hostname is?
2021-07-06 12:23:05	k2gremlin	local server not cloud.
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2021-07-06 12:23:15	Dagmar	hostnamectl is _supposed_ to control that and if you pass all three dashed arguments and it still doesn't persist through a reboot, something fishy and possibly incorrect is going on (like someone decided to make the DHCP client set the hostname)
2021-07-06 12:23:16	k2gremlin	hostname, hostnamectl
2021-07-06 12:23:16	FloridaMan	Rey: ##linuxmint
2021-07-06 12:23:18	rey	tjx
2021-07-06 12:23:20	rey	thx*
2021-07-06 12:23:40	Dagmar	You should not normally have to edit /etc/hosts for the hostname on that distribution
2021-07-06 12:23:54	curdlesnoot	k2gremlin: actually, let me put that another way. does `sysctl -s kernel.hostname` also not print the hostname that you expected?
2021-07-06 12:23:59	Dagmar	...nor should you want to because you'll risk getting tangled in what some parts of systemd might be doing
2021-07-06 12:24:12	curdlesnoot	sysctl -n, sorry
2021-07-06 12:24:51	beltwaybob	Anyone here like Grateful Dead?
2021-07-06 12:24:51	k2gremlin	curd, no such file
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2021-07-06 12:25:19	schillingklaus	another reason to avoid systemd
2021-07-06 12:25:25	curdlesnoot	k2gremlin: I don't understand. you don't have sysctl? that seems highly unlikely.
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2021-07-06 12:25:59	Dagmar	curdlesnoot: It's Ubuntu.  I think they're migrating over to systemd-sysctl now
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2021-07-06 12:26:25	k2gremlin	sysctl command works, but /proc/sys/kernal/hostname no such file
2021-07-06 12:26:26	akik	i had the problem with hostnamectl that whatever i changed with it, it was overriden by dhcp
2021-07-06 12:26:30	rob`	systemd om nom nom
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2021-07-06 12:26:39	akik	maybe in the next version it works
2021-07-06 12:26:43	k2gremlin	and static addressing here
2021-07-06 12:26:47	Dagmar	It helps if you spell correctly.
2021-07-06 12:27:05	Dagmar	Computers are sticklers about that.
2021-07-06 12:27:05	k2gremlin	^ lol
2021-07-06 12:27:10	curdlesnoot	Dagmar: noted, but I think this might even be because /sbin wasn't in PATH (they think it makes things more 'secure', presumably). let's see.
2021-07-06 12:27:16	k2gremlin	And yes, it shows the name I want it to be right now.
2021-07-06 12:27:26	k2gremlin	If I reboot it, it's going to revert back.
2021-07-06 12:27:28	k2gremlin	rebooting now
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2021-07-06 12:27:30	Dagmar	curdlesnoot: The moment I saw 'kernal'...
2021-07-06 12:27:42	k2gremlin	shh..
2021-07-06 12:27:42	curdlesnoot	oh. just saw that . lol.
2021-07-06 12:27:43	k2gremlin	:)
2021-07-06 12:27:45	themachine	the ol' lonix kernal
2021-07-06 12:27:46	Dagmar	hehe
2021-07-06 12:27:48	Dagmar	It happens
2021-07-06 12:27:49	curdlesnoot	well, nearly there.
2021-07-06 12:27:59	k2gremlin	slowly but surely
2021-07-06 12:28:06	k2gremlin	its rebooting now
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2021-07-06 12:28:15	themachine	you were rebooting 30 seconds ago!
2021-07-06 12:28:17	Dagmar	GOds help you if this is some new misbegotten manifestation of cloud-init
2021-07-06 12:28:35	curdlesnoot	k2gremlin: so, yeah, it's kernel.hostname not kernal.hostname. that's the thing that, at the very least, should be in agreement with the hostname that you set after booting.
2021-07-06 12:28:40	Dagmar	You can just go ahead and light some incence as a ward against that
2021-07-06 12:28:41	k2gremlin	new hostname stuck.... must of been the --static, --pretty, --transient
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2021-07-06 12:29:00	danielrparks	the default is to assume all of those...
2021-07-06 12:29:02	Dagmar	k2gremlin: yeah without at least two of those the result tends to be temporary
2021-07-06 12:29:06	k2gremlin	you would think right
2021-07-06 12:29:13	danielrparks	oh wait maybe it's different by distribution
2021-07-06 12:29:14	omero	ok, before diving further into 'my' problem I searched a bit around, PaulFertser ... I found some interesting bits of 'funny stuff'.
2021-07-06 12:29:29	k2gremlin	Dagmar, is that a feature or a bug? lol
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2021-07-06 12:29:49	Pickchea	I want to extract a 7z-archive but without overwriting existing files. For that, I thought I had to use the switch `-aos` but it doesn't work. Would someone be so kind as to confirm wether `7z x -o/home/USER/dir/ -aos arch.7z` overwrites files in `/home/USER/dir/` that have the same file names as the files in the archive `arch.7z`?
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2021-07-06 12:30:15	omero	seems ipv6 is still considered 'experimental' here (in my country)... no matter the provider.
2021-07-06 12:30:25	Pickchea	For me, overwriting occurs although it should not.
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2021-07-06 12:30:49	PaulFertser	omero: and? Do you think they just stopped providing you the service?
2021-07-06 12:30:55	omero	thus they can 'change things on the fly, and of course ... not explaining what are they doing...
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2021-07-06 12:31:09	PaulFertser	omero: btw, what's so special about your system, why are you self-compiling stuff?
2021-07-06 12:31:13	Dagmar	omero: There's a lot of stuff in ipv6.  It's really hard to know if there's not some feature that can be used to take over people's eyeballs or route packets directly into underpants with it
2021-07-06 12:31:15	omero	I am not sure how proficient you are in italian
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2021-07-06 12:31:40	Dagmar	For sure tehre was a lot of just, insanely naive stuff in it in the 90's
2021-07-06 12:31:49	-->	scabby (~scabby@user/scabootssca) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 12:32:09	Dagmar	Like, there's no way allowing source routing to be an explicit thing across the internet will ever end well
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2021-07-06 12:32:43	omero	lol... I would like to be able to translate a 'summary' of what it gets down to.
2021-07-06 12:33:02	Dagmar	Pickchea: The 7z tool is kind of bad
2021-07-06 12:33:02	schillingklaus	as insane as systemd messing with /etc/* files
2021-07-06 12:33:08	omero	thus I am now determined to find a proper solution to the problem
2021-07-06 12:33:16	omero	and I will do it for free.
2021-07-06 12:33:20	Pickchea	Dagmar, it is! And the syntax is weird!
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2021-07-06 12:33:23	omero	scientifically.
2021-07-06 12:33:30	<--	ShahNaim (~shahnaim@user/shahnaim) has quit (Quit: -=always learning=-)
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2021-07-06 12:33:58	Dagmar	Pickchea: I have instructed our people to _not_ use 7z format for very large archives because it does things like, _scans the contents of a directory that contains 100,000 files in it_ to avoid an overwrite even when you've told it to overwrite without confirmation
2021-07-06 12:34:14	beltwaybob	That's an emphatic not
2021-07-06 12:34:17	Dagmar	This makes it SUPER FUN when you're trying to get some archive with 100,000 files in it opened up
2021-07-06 12:34:18	PaulFertser	omero: I do not think it depends on the country, it's rather what your ISP is doing. If your ISP says it provides IPv6 as a non-experimental service then it should work.
2021-07-06 12:34:18	curdlesnoot	pikudoz: I don't see any such switch. how about: yes N | 7z ...
2021-07-06 12:34:21	omero	it is simply unbelievable that ... the problem stems from the fact that most providers (in my country) are not providing the necessary information.
2021-07-06 12:34:28	curdlesnoot	pikudoz: oops, wrong nick
2021-07-06 12:34:37	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: see above.
2021-07-06 12:34:55	omero	indeed it should not matter the country or the provider.
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2021-07-06 12:35:20	Dagmar	I had to break out strace to figure out why precisely it would start out throwing down 50-100 files per second and then eventually be like, *maybe* two files per second
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2021-07-06 12:35:51	beltwaybob	What is 7z?
2021-07-06 12:35:53	beltwaybob	it sounds obscure
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2021-07-06 12:35:57	beltwaybob	why would anyone use anything obscure
2021-07-06 12:36:02	beltwaybob	I have heard of it, but it is not "top 3"
2021-07-06 12:36:09	Dagmar	It's an archive format that uses compression similar to RAR
2021-07-06 12:36:10	<--	greatcoof (~greatcoof@197.48.77.103) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:36:16	Dagmar	THe Windows utility is pretty darned good
2021-07-06 12:36:22	Dagmar	The Linux tool for it, not so much
2021-07-06 12:36:28	Pickchea	curdlesnoot, it's weird, the manpage on my Zorin OS installation informs me about this switch while the one on my Manjaro installation does not. But I'm trying to use it on Zorin OS anyway.
2021-07-06 12:36:32	coroner	cpio ar tar gzip2 bzip2 rather and dar
2021-07-06 12:36:45	Dagmar	Who knows, the Windows version might also suck but no one's noticed because expectations are lower
2021-07-06 12:36:48	omero	I mean: some folks thinks that 'obscurity' ensure ... future.
2021-07-06 12:36:51	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: could be a patch. I see no such option here, and my version is bang up to date.
2021-07-06 12:37:06	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: in any case, yes N should work.
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2021-07-06 12:37:21	Pickchea	curdlesnoot, thanks for the hint!
2021-07-06 12:37:26	 *	coroner dies from bang
2021-07-06 12:37:40	beltwaybob	!
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2021-07-06 12:37:49	Dagmar	beltwaybob: The advantage it enjoys in Windows is that you only have to install the one thing (7-zip) and it handles 98% of the compressed archive formats you're ever likely to see.
2021-07-06 12:37:51	omero	but enough ranting. I am determined now to find _why_ something that has worked for ages it is not longer working anymore. and no explanations whatsoever are given... anywhere.
2021-07-06 12:37:54	<--	SkunkyLaptop (~skunky@user/skunky) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 12:38:07	beltwaybob	Dagmar: oh, so it is not a format, it is a multi-format swiss army knife
2021-07-06 12:38:08	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:38:34	curdlesnoot	it is a format.
2021-07-06 12:39:01	Dagmar	It's a tool that happens to _do_ multiple formats which is named after it's primary format
2021-07-06 12:39:10	omero	the only sensible explanation I have found so far can be summarized in 'do you have a problem? please request contact with our experts. you will be billed 30€ for the answer
2021-07-06 12:39:27	omero	and no, it is not limited to one provider
2021-07-06 12:39:28	beltwaybob	oh, OK
2021-07-06 12:39:34	curdlesnoot	beltwaybob: think of the format as something roughly along the lines or rar, with lzma as the codec.
2021-07-06 12:39:41	Dagmar	omero: That's generally a sign you broke something
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2021-07-06 12:39:45	beltwaybob	ya, I know what a compression algorithm is thanks
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2021-07-06 12:40:00	curdlesnoot	I wasn't aware that anyone had purpoted that you didn't.
2021-07-06 12:40:04	omero	au contraire, Dagmar
2021-07-06 12:40:22	beltwaybob	OK
2021-07-06 12:40:23	omero	It is a proof that something has not changed on my side
2021-07-06 12:40:26	beltwaybob	Just so long as we're on the same page
2021-07-06 12:40:54	Dagmar	Maybe it's time to change approaches then
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2021-07-06 12:41:11	Dagmar	SOmething like 'You have a problem on your network.  You will be billed $150 for me to explain it to you.'
2021-07-06 12:41:14	omero	rigorous scientific approach. yes Dagmar
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2021-07-06 12:41:36	beltwaybob	I remember in elementary school when I ran a tiny ISP for a friend from preschool
2021-07-06 12:41:37	beltwaybob	What a good time
2021-07-06 12:41:46	beltwaybob	I didnt even think to bill her
2021-07-06 12:41:49	-->	joo (~joo@jodb.mikjaer.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 12:42:31	joo	So I currently use guake on top of a nice 4K video on Youtube, the quake is transparant.... what is a good way to keep just this as a background for a terminal? I enjoy watching nature inside the terminal in with i type
2021-07-06 12:42:32	coroner	Shoulda made her pay crack and give you head.
2021-07-06 12:42:43	omero	Dagmar: in other words. I will find out what is wrong. and I will file complaints
2021-07-06 12:42:56	Pickchea	Is there an alternative programme which which to unpack 7z archives? It seems many switches just don't work.
2021-07-06 12:43:01	Psi-Jack	That's... not very appropriate....
2021-07-06 12:43:17	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: bsdtar from libarchive
2021-07-06 12:43:19	coroner	unrar
2021-07-06 12:43:22	coroner	unzip -a
2021-07-06 12:43:30	curdlesnoot	unzip ... no.
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2021-07-06 12:43:34	coroner	both work 7z is avaoilavle for Linux anywyays
2021-07-06 12:43:54	Dagmar	7z being _bad_ is the problem
2021-07-06 12:44:02	Dagmar	Try and keep up
2021-07-06 12:44:06	Pickchea	curdlesnoot, thanks!
2021-07-06 12:44:10	coroner	Yeah bad to the bone I agree a p[ieced of good garbage.
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2021-07-06 12:44:20	joo	like bad as in not free ?
2021-07-06 12:44:25	themachine	7z is bad?
2021-07-06 12:44:27	beltwaybob	coroner: we were in elementary school :(
2021-07-06 12:44:31	Dagmar	No, bad as in behaves poorly
2021-07-06 12:44:35	coroner	7z is cool but its a pile of trash.
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2021-07-06 12:44:38	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: you may find that you've gone from the frying pan to the fire because, as neat as bsdtar is, I don't think it has an option for this either.
2021-07-06 12:44:39	beltwaybob	I was surprised at how easy it was to set up
2021-07-06 12:44:41	coroner	it stringetthid
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2021-07-06 12:44:50	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: and, being a tar, it doesn't prompt either.
2021-07-06 12:45:21	Dagmar	Put 100,000 to 250,000 files of any size into a 7z archive.  Now go and extract one of them.  Now try to get a file listing of them, safely.  Now try to extract them all into one directory and ask yourself why it takes soooo long.
2021-07-06 12:45:22	coroner	tape archive tar
2021-07-06 12:45:26	-->	zeden (~zeden@user/zeden) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 12:45:30	coroner	Tape ARchive
2021-07-06 12:45:41	Pickchea	Ughgh, I am doomed.
2021-07-06 12:45:52	themachine	Pickchea: why?
2021-07-06 12:46:14	coroner	Wityh those reels of reel to reel tapes they use at Lowes behind those doors that sto0res over 1 million database items in entry and tajkes 45 minutes to loAD EVERY MORING.
2021-07-06 12:46:19	curdlesnoot	Pickchea: just use yes N, I suppose. it might seem stupid but it works.
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2021-07-06 12:46:30	themachine	Dagmar: well, i've never had such a large 7z archive so I'll take your word for it
2021-07-06 12:46:41	themachine	really don't use it often for anything serious anyway
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2021-07-06 12:47:20	Pickchea	themachine, I'm not really, I'm just annoyed very much. I have many archives to unpack but I don't want to overwrite any existing files and also I want to suppress output (because I'm going to run many instances in parallel) and that switch doesn't work either (guess I have to use `> /dev/null`).
2021-07-06 12:47:21	Dagmar	coroner: None of the locations should be using those anymore
2021-07-06 12:47:26	coroner	I use tar and bzip2 -9 for my 4.5 GB pictures my mom has of EVERY related being to us even shit from 1885 photographs how I dont know. digital though.
2021-07-06 12:47:56	<--	_42large (~user@37.120.197.48) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-07-06 12:47:59	themachine	Pickchea: I mean, there's nothing wrong with redirecting to /dev/null
2021-07-06 12:48:01	coroner	Dagmar what do they does nows doe?
2021-07-06 12:48:08	coroner	What is the answer?
2021-07-06 12:48:20	coroner	To tapes? nothing!!! stick with the old in with the ODLER
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2021-07-06 12:48:23	Dagmar	They have modern fileservers and application databases
2021-07-06 12:48:36	coroner	Oh ok if you say so.
2021-07-06 12:48:49	<--	cursey (uid186300@id-186300.charlton.irccloud.com) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-07-06 12:48:52	coroner	some stores in Alabama are 10 years beyhind the techngoloogoy curve Dagmar seriouysly
2021-07-06 12:48:59	Dagmar	I have laid eyes on them at my local Lowes
2021-07-06 12:49:13	coroner	Ok what state?
2021-07-06 12:49:16	themachine	Pickchea: is parallel archive extraction a good idea though?
2021-07-06 12:49:22	<--	mikail (~mikail@90.152.14.81) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:49:34	Dagmar	Basically, if the location has the new self-serve kiosks for checkout, it won't have any ancient legacy crap remaining
2021-07-06 12:49:45	themachine	if they're all on the same disk you'll probably just be shooting yourself in the foot due to IO
2021-07-06 12:50:14	[twisti]	does linux have an FS comparable to microsoft storage spaces ? in case its not common knowledge here, storage spaces allows you to dynamically combine different drives (as in different sizes and even technologies, like HDD+HDD+SSD) to raid-like configurations; the feature i really care about is being able to just add a single drive to the array and have it expand its size behind the scenes,
2021-07-06 12:50:14	[twisti]	without having to set up a whole new raid and somehow rewriting the data, like youd have to with old school hardware raid
2021-07-06 12:50:18	<--	luke-jr (~luke-jr@user/luke-jr) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-07-06 12:50:29	Dagmar	[twisti]: We're way beyond that
2021-07-06 12:50:35	Pickchea	themachine, are you sure? I mean, otherwise I have 7 unused CPU cores.
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2021-07-06 12:50:55	themachine	sure you have enough CPU, but are you reading and writing to the same disk?
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2021-07-06 12:51:06	Dagmar	Pickchea: You might have abnormally fast disks, but you shluld probably run iostat and find out
2021-07-06 12:51:07	themachine	or reading on sda and writing to sdb?
2021-07-06 12:51:44	Pickchea	I'm extracting from an external SSD (USB 3.0) to HDD.
2021-07-06 12:51:45	-->	luke-jr (~luke-jr@user/luke-jr) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 12:51:46	themachine	and depending on WHAT is in your archives it could be a ton of iops
2021-07-06 12:51:53	<--	Pacific_ (~arash@5.124.164.252) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:51:58	[twisti]	Dagmar: how so ?
2021-07-06 12:52:11	Dagmar	[twisti]: Also you're allowed to do whatevery dumb things you want with your disk topology, but you don't get sympathy for the result
2021-07-06 12:52:47	themachine	Pickchea: then you'll be inherently limited by the write speed of the hdd so I'd start with just extracting one archive and see if there is even much room for an increase in performance if you did multiple archives simaltaneously
2021-07-06 12:52:50	<--	voltage (voltage@user/voltage) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:53:22	schillingklaus	paxmirabilis is a great archiver
2021-07-06 12:53:26	<--	Iamthehuman1 (~noname@user/iamthehuman) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-06 12:53:26	themachine	[twisti]: if you aren't after RAID functions mergerfs is a great tool for pooling arbitrary disks
2021-07-06 12:53:29	Dagmar	[twisti]: Let me make it clear.  The process you just outlined of adding a disk to an array of disks that are apparently structured and there NOT being any refactoring of how it's stored _and_ no performance penalty _does not exist_
2021-07-06 12:53:32	<--	Dalvini (~nil@2a01:e34:ec21:a20:3cf2:bbde:35a1:f903) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 12:53:32	 *	themachine uses mergerfs
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2021-07-06 12:53:40	Dagmar	[twisti]: It violates the laws of _physics_.
2021-07-06 12:53:56	beltwaybob	Dagmar: well, not necessarily, it could be added and just happen to be in the optimum physical configuration, by chance
2021-07-06 12:53:59	Dagmar	This is a non-negotiable point.  If any MSP has been telling you otherwise, they have been lying.
2021-07-06 12:54:01	beltwaybob	But that is a very low probability
2021-07-06 12:54:10	beltwaybob	But I can't see why he would want to rely on that
2021-07-06 12:54:21	beltwaybob	Why not just buy disks of the same size and integrate them into the unit?
2021-07-06 12:54:34	beltwaybob	Or plan the storage capacity you need for N months, buy that, etc.
2021-07-06 12:54:43	themachine	beltwaybob: because that's not always financially feasible
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2021-07-06 12:55:06	Dagmar	beltwaybob: That would require thinking and planning and that requires qualified personnell which is a thing MSPs like to pretend isn't necessary because Microsoft is magical
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2021-07-06 12:55:47	Dagmar	Yes, I am _the_ last person a barely qualified sales engineer _ever_ wants to hear on a conference call.
2021-07-06 12:56:08	beltwaybob	im pretty sure that in my province theyre not allowed to call themselves sales engineers
2021-07-06 12:56:38	Pickchea	themachine, I'm currently extracting one archive and observing with `watch iostat` but I'm not sure what I'm seeing. What do I look for?
2021-07-06 12:56:38	Dagmar	I wouldn't mind seeing that term go away in teh states
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2021-07-06 12:57:08	Dagmar	Pickchea: One of the numbers hitting a large number and staying there, indicating that that IO channel is saturated and can't go any faster
2021-07-06 12:57:35	Pickchea	Dagmar, do you mean as I add more processes?
2021-07-06 12:57:41	Dagmar	...and you don't need to use `watch iostat`.  That's silly.  Iostat can already repeat its own results every n seconds. `iostat 2`
2021-07-06 12:57:59	Pickchea	Dagmar, sorry, learned about iostat just now.
2021-07-06 12:58:02	[twisti]	Dagmar: it happens behind the scenes; the existing data is moved to the new drive until all drives are balanced, but it happens transparently when the PC is idle. im ... not really interested in getting a pad on the head on how amazing my storage setup is, im not sure whats happening with this sudden wave of hostility.
2021-07-06 12:58:02	Dagmar	No worries
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2021-07-06 12:58:35	[twisti]	themachine: thanks, ill read up on mergefs to see if it fits, id prefer to move the drive to one of my linux machines instead of having it stuck to the windows pc
2021-07-06 12:58:42	Pickchea	Dagmar, it says avg-cpu: %iowait 0,87. That seems low.
2021-07-06 12:58:49	 *	hodapp peeks at a shared server whose load average has been > 90 for the last week
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2021-07-06 12:59:44	Pickchea	Dagmar, but sure, this percentage is bound to be low when I have 8 cores even if there's lots of IO wait.
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2021-07-06 13:00:09	Dagmar	Pickchea: You want iowait to be _low_ not high
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2021-07-06 13:00:34	Dagmar	Pickchea: You should be looking for saturation before deciding to throw more cores at the problem
2021-07-06 13:00:53	Pickchea	Dagmar, I know. But if it's low, that means I can add more processes that extract files.
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2021-07-06 13:01:07	Dagmar	Normally your CPU (especially if its' a good one) should be able to well exceed the througput of anything that's not flash media
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2021-07-06 13:03:22	curdlesnoot	but will 7z? I suppose that's the question. lzma can be expensive.
2021-07-06 13:03:22	Dagmar	themachine: serves him right
2021-07-06 13:03:33	Dagmar	For compression.  Decompression is usually pretty efficient
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2021-07-06 13:03:45	themachine	huh?
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2021-07-06 13:03:56	Dagmar	themachine: You suggested a filesystem-layer abstraction
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2021-07-06 13:03:59	themachine	Oh
2021-07-06 13:04:17	themachine	Because it sounded like a tool that would serve the purpose he desired
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2021-07-06 13:04:34	themachine	works well for me
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2021-07-06 13:05:20	Dagmar	themachine: I suspect he's fallen for the fact that the docs pertaining to that particular functionality in Windows are "misleading" at best
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2021-07-06 13:05:43	 *	themachine shrugs
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2021-07-06 13:05:59	Dagmar	...but they're looking to sell a product, and any shortcomings due to completely unrealistic expectations are definitely the customers problem
2021-07-06 13:06:04	themachine	his description was very similar to the functionality of mergerfs
2021-07-06 13:06:05	[twisti]	yeah, it doesnt seem to fit. from what i understand of the documentation so far, it just kind of transparently throws the file systems together; files arent spread across disks or anything like that
2021-07-06 13:06:15	themachine	[twisti]: correct
2021-07-06 13:06:27	themachine	each drive has it's own filesystem and exists independently from each other
2021-07-06 13:06:29	beltwaybob	Dagmar: if it werent for customers things would go more smoothly
2021-07-06 13:06:42	[twisti]	still, thats a cool project, i can think of a few use cases where it might be helpful
2021-07-06 13:06:45	themachine	mergerfs handles the distribution of files across the drives
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2021-07-06 13:07:05	themachine	It's not an idea setup but if that's what you're working with then it's a nice tool to have in the kit
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2021-07-06 13:07:29	Dagmar	There just isn't a multi-disk solution that doesn't require the person in charge be able to make reasonable decisions from the start
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2021-07-06 13:07:50	koollman	Dagmar: there is one (well, two) that I know of on linux. I'm not sure I would recommend them for general usage, though
2021-07-06 13:08:00	themachine	Dagmar: depends on what you consider a solution
2021-07-06 13:08:03	koollman	moosefs and lizardfs can aggregate space on multiple disks (or multiple hosts)
2021-07-06 13:08:07	[twisti]	i made decisions when i set it up, im not asking for something to make the decisions for me (how would it ?)
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2021-07-06 13:08:18	beltwaybob	I dont think its a good choice
2021-07-06 13:08:19	beltwaybob	it sounds wrong
2021-07-06 13:08:21	koollman	and they do not lose data or require too many decisions (beyond 'which disks to use')
2021-07-06 13:08:27	Dagmar	...but the documentation I saw just last month seriously pretends it's all magical and that one might possibly get the benefit of RAID5 redundancy and the simplicity of spanning across a bunch of dubious disks you fished out of the dumpster, _and_ the performnace of mirroring/striping, all at once
2021-07-06 13:08:38	beltwaybob	Although it is a problem that I should have solved years ago
2021-07-06 13:09:02	koollman	Dagmar: I'm not sure what  would be wrong with that, really
2021-07-06 13:09:03	beltwaybob	I lost years of data because I thought the people I had written a program for would buy new hard drives
2021-07-06 13:09:07	beltwaybob	Nope
2021-07-06 13:09:07	beltwaybob	They just formatted the old one
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2021-07-06 13:09:29	Dagmar	Until someone does enough adderall to introduce mapreduce and hilbert-space calculations att the storage layer, there's always going to be a need to make design decisions.
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2021-07-06 13:09:52	koollman	Dagmar: but there can be reasonable decisions for some usages, or reasonable options to propose
2021-07-06 13:10:13	Dagmar	koollman: And you know as well as I do that that generally involves leaving some things behind
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2021-07-06 13:10:18	koollman	there aren't many on linux (or outside of proprietary stuff) but that's not a technical limit
2021-07-06 13:10:18	Dagmar	Like, "reliability"
2021-07-06 13:10:36	koollman	Dagmar: but it can be done reliably, too
2021-07-06 13:10:42	Dagmar	Really?
2021-07-06 13:10:48	koollman	yes
2021-07-06 13:10:55	Dagmar	Show me a 20-disk spanned array that isn't making someone somewhere lay awake nights worrying
2021-07-06 13:11:10	Dagmar	At least, if they're not making regular backups elsewhere
2021-07-06 13:11:28	Dagmar	This is genuinely what a lot of people expect to be reasonable
2021-07-06 13:11:46	koollman	Dagmar: and it is. really
2021-07-06 13:11:50	Dagmar	Physics says as you add more units, your chances of failure go up.
2021-07-06 13:11:57	koollman	Dagmar: no
2021-07-06 13:12:00	Dagmar	Yes.
2021-07-06 13:12:03	beltwaybob	Dagmar: what if they are absolute units?
2021-07-06 13:12:05	koollman	well, yes, individual disk failure go up
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2021-07-06 13:12:15	koollman	overall reliability doesn't need to suffer from that
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2021-07-06 13:12:23	Dagmar	THe odds of one of a set of devices failing will always be higher than the odds of a single unit all by its lonesome failing
2021-07-06 13:12:31	koollman	Dagmar: you could have a system that split those volumes in reasonable sizes, for example
2021-07-06 13:12:55	koollman	Dagmar: but on the opposite side, the odds of one device taking the whole thing down can be managed
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2021-07-06 13:13:24	Dagmar	By adding redundancy or at least parity bits.  Both of which incur storage overhead and require things be moved around
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2021-07-06 13:13:28	peetaur	overall failures certainly goes up with more units unless you scale up the redundancy with it...and then it's still more underlying device failure, and also worse performance/unit
2021-07-06 13:13:31	koollman	Dagmar: https://dpaste.org/9r1a
2021-07-06 13:13:52	koollman	Dagmar: technically, this is a system with more than 20 devices. one is dead. no one even woke up or lost sleep over it ;)
2021-07-06 13:14:04	Dagmar	koolman: Keep in mind the standard trhat was held out was a _Microsoft product_
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2021-07-06 13:14:22	themachine	If I lose a disk in my mergerfs pool I just lose the data on that specific disk
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2021-07-06 13:14:32	Dagmar	I know what ceph does and why it does it and that it's definitely better than the snake oil Microsoft is selling to the gullible
2021-07-06 13:14:33	themachine	Life goes on, I throw a new disk in
2021-07-06 13:14:37	 *	hodapp whistles as he walks to the nearest PC with an acetylene torch already lit
2021-07-06 13:14:42	koollman	Dagmar: which happens to work. I do agree that outside of proprietary solutions, the reliable solutions are not easy, and the easy solutions are not that reliable ;)
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2021-07-06 13:14:59	koollman	Dagmar: but it's not a technical limit, some product can be both reliable and easy
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2021-07-06 13:15:02	peetaur	Dagmar: what does microsoft sell that's comparable at all to ceph?
2021-07-06 13:15:13	Sario	hodapp: don't punish the hardware for the junk installed on it
2021-07-06 13:15:22	Dagmar	peetaur: LOL
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2021-07-06 13:15:34	koollman	(I'm pissed off enough about it that I am seriously considering writing my own storage system, specifically to handle the "make a bunch of disk reliable storage" problem)
2021-07-06 13:15:34	octav1a	Does anyone know how to enable locking on NFS? I'm able to mount my NFS shares but trying to use flock times out. (ubuntu 20.04 releases)
2021-07-06 13:15:59	[twisti]	koollman: isnt that solved by just regular old raid ?
2021-07-06 13:16:02	Dagmar	koollman: Fast-good-cheap, pick all three lol
2021-07-06 13:16:22	koollman	[twisti]: no. not the 'bunch of disks' part. raid adds restriction on which disks you can pick, in general
2021-07-06 13:16:39	Dagmar	ceph does a damn fine job at the expense of occasionally making a storage admin flee the facility screaming uncontrollably
2021-07-06 13:16:40	[twisti]	ah, yeah, thats why i picked storage spaces. but its definitely not fast
2021-07-06 13:16:56	koollman	or at least regular raid does. you could do some neat splitting of the disks in partitions and assemble those in raid volumes respecting various constraints
2021-07-06 13:16:58	[twisti]	but i use it for media files so i dont really care about performance
2021-07-06 13:17:01	koollman	it would be closer to a usable solution
2021-07-06 13:17:31	koollman	Dagmar: yes. I would recommand lizardfs over ceph for the 'easy' part. Of course, it's not as fast. which is a shame :)
2021-07-06 13:17:51	Dagmar	[twisti]: The TL;DR is that not only do we have mdadm, we also have LVM which is totally fine with new disks being added to a volume group, provided you're only asking it to span across block ddevices
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2021-07-06 13:18:17	Dagmar	[twisti]: But Microsoft's 'storage spaces' are largely snake-oil
2021-07-06 13:18:31	koollman	Dagmar: and, technically, on a single node, you could write some smart enough program that would handle mdadm and/or lvm by not using all disks at once, and providing as much storage as 'expected' while keeping reliability high and disk loss impact rather low
2021-07-06 13:18:45	[twisti]	id like at least mirroring, spreading data over multiple drives without some redundancy is just asking for fate to bitchslap you
2021-07-06 13:18:52	Dagmar	koollman: mdadm can already do spare drives
2021-07-06 13:18:55	koollman	I've done it before,but it's a pain to manage when you don't have a really neat algorithm telling you how to assemble things :)
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2021-07-06 13:19:14	koollman	Dagmar: but it can't deal directly with disks of different sizes, for example
2021-07-06 13:19:17	[twisti]	Dagmar: i dont know what youre trying to say with that. are you suggesting that windows is lying about my data being mirrored ?
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2021-07-06 13:20:12	Dagmar	[twisti]: I'm suggesting that if anyone told you you could flip between redundant storage models and non-redundant storage models without a lot of disk writes happening behidn the scenes and some crap performance in the meantime until that's finished, they were _lying_ to you
2021-07-06 13:20:26	koollman	but, you can split your disks in 1TB partitions, for example, and make something out of it that respects rules like "at least 5 partitions in raid6" and "use as many partitions as possible" and "spread spares around"
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2021-07-06 13:20:54	koollman	(but the magic sauce isn't written yet,so it's a pain to manage :) )
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2021-07-06 13:21:08	koollman	but it does not contradict physics
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2021-07-06 13:21:15	Dagmar	Well, that's because differnet sized disks aren't generally capable of handling different amounts of data
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2021-07-06 13:21:18	Dagmar	Imagine that.
2021-07-06 13:21:19	[twisti]	Dagmar: im not sure where you came up with that story that youre debunking, its certainly not anything i said or meant to imply
2021-07-06 13:21:21	Dagmar	Physics again
2021-07-06 13:21:22	Dagmar	Heh
2021-07-06 13:21:31	Dagmar	er the same amounts of data
2021-07-06 13:21:45	Dagmar	[twisti]: I eat sales engineers occasionally.
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2021-07-06 13:22:20	Dagmar	[twisti]: I was exposed to the propaganda about storage spaces last month
2021-07-06 13:22:49	Dagmar	The best that can be said of it is that it makes it relatively painless to make bad decisions quickly.
2021-07-06 13:22:54	[twisti]	im sorry to hear that there was propaganda. they certainly seem to do exactly what i need, which is none of the things you said about performance
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2021-07-06 13:24:15	Dagmar	You should be able to do anything reasonable/sane with lvm and mdadm
2021-07-06 13:24:18	[twisti]	i use it purely for redundancy and convenience. all data is spread to 3 physical devices, and if i plug in an additional drive, it will silently and without me noticing (since i dont care about performance and it happens when the pc is idle anyways) distribute the existing data so that the new drive shares the load equally
2021-07-06 13:24:43	Dagmar	If you want to do "cloud"-like things, theres ceph and glusterfs for people who are easily spooked
2021-07-06 13:25:15	Dagmar	s/ceph/ceph,/
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2021-07-06 13:26:11	beltwaybob	Dagmar: storing things is alawys difficult
2021-07-06 13:26:13	beltwaybob	It's never 100%
2021-07-06 13:26:15	Dagmar	SImply throwing another disk into an LVM volume group and expanding the existing filesystem into it is just a matter of a few seconds and some commands
2021-07-06 13:26:27	Dagmar	Deciding after the fact that you want storage redundancy... not so simple
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2021-07-06 13:26:50	[twisti]	i dont know where you got that idea, but you never said that, nor would i ever ask for something so weird
2021-07-06 13:26:50	beltwaybob	why build 1 when you can build 2 for twice the price
2021-07-06 13:26:53	beltwaybob	first rule of government spending
2021-07-06 13:26:59	koollman	Dagmar: I am litteraly working on this currently, so I do consider it a important subject ;)
2021-07-06 13:27:05	Dagmar	heh
2021-07-06 13:27:17	[twisti]	beltwaybob: i first heard that saying in Contact
2021-07-06 13:27:31	Dagmar	koollman: WEll, in my honest opinion the amount of adderall currently required to solve that problem would be lethal for most people
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2021-07-06 13:27:56	beltwaybob	[twisti]: ya
2021-07-06 13:27:58	Betal	koollman: why split disks in 1TB partitions when you can create 100 partitions of 1TB using lvm ;)
2021-07-06 13:28:07	Dagmar	We'll just have to wait for someone with Hawking-level genius in storage methodologies to be born
2021-07-06 13:28:28	beltwaybob	why dont you just write everything out to multiple locations at once
2021-07-06 13:28:34	beltwaybob	like making photocopies on the go
2021-07-06 13:28:57	Dagmar	Because some people expect if they add a 4Tb disk that they'll get 4Tb of new storage
2021-07-06 13:29:11	djph	Dagmar: you don't?
2021-07-06 13:29:23	Dagmar	...or that performance of a jagged storage array will be consistent throughout
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2021-07-06 13:29:39	koollman	Dagmar: no kidding: https://dpaste.org/WwvS :)
2021-07-06 13:29:49	koollman	(using partition labels help ... slightly)
2021-07-06 13:30:08	djph	I mean, I just threw a 4 Tb drive in my machine, and got ... 4Tb (okay, fine 3.9-whatever because ext4...)
2021-07-06 13:30:13	peetaur	djph: you get 4TB including all the overhead, not just file contents
2021-07-06 13:30:31	djph	right ...
2021-07-06 13:30:33	Dagmar	koollman: I really do think that a hilbert-space and mapreduce are the keys
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2021-07-06 13:30:46	koollman	Dagmar: I hope to get something usable before going there ;)
2021-07-06 13:31:03	Dagmar	I just expect if I ever get that completely straight in my head, there will be a small trickle of blood runnign out of my nose
2021-07-06 13:31:14	djph	peetaur: yeah, I know that much ... I'm just confused by Dagmar's statement (or I guess base-10 vs base-2?)
2021-07-06 13:31:23	koollman	Dagmar: but I do have a first algorithm to split/assemble pieces in usable storage, and I'm still lacking many parts. But it works!
2021-07-06 13:32:12	Betal	koollman: isn't raid6 bad for so many disks like that? just asking
2021-07-06 13:32:15	Dagmar	djph: A hilbert "curve" is a line that crosses every spot in an x-y plot, so it's kind of important to topology things
2021-07-06 13:32:26	Betal	koollman: you have like sda to sdz
2021-07-06 13:32:34	beltwaybob	geometry is evil
2021-07-06 13:32:46	djph	Dagmar: err, what's that have to do with a 4TB drive ?  I think I missed context somewhere :|
2021-07-06 13:32:47	Dagmar	djph: You know when you see some art that has a square filled with one line that's so neatly folded and fills all the space?  That's a hilbert curve
2021-07-06 13:32:53	koollman	(in the dpaste example, 8TB and 4TB disks are combined to provide a single storage with reasonable amount of redundancy while providing enough usable space)
2021-07-06 13:33:04	Dagmar	It's important to mapping incongrous spaces to one-another
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2021-07-06 13:33:28	Dagmar	Like one virtual array of 8Tb versus a slew of smaller drives that happen to combine to 8Tb total
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2021-07-06 13:34:00	koollman	Betal: it's not bad when you respect a few principles
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2021-07-06 13:34:09	koollman	(like 'not one raid6 with 20 disks in it' :) )
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2021-07-06 13:35:44	Dagmar	djph: This also means that every point on that line is, on average, the same distance from any other point
2021-07-06 13:35:47	Betal	I do see raid for redundancy and speed, not for space
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2021-07-06 13:36:05	Dagmar	djph: There's some weird properties to that kind of math that directly relates to storage transformations
2021-07-06 13:36:31	frostschutz	koollman, i do this with 250G partitions...
2021-07-06 13:37:01	Dagmar	djph: ...particuarlyl because that whole "shortest average distance" thing directly impacts random seek time
2021-07-06 13:37:19	djph	Dagmar: ahh
2021-07-06 13:37:55	coroner	ZA
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2021-07-06 13:38:11	coroner	~-ZAP-~
2021-07-06 13:38:28	coroner	ZAP MY TERABYTE DAGMAR
2021-07-06 13:38:45	coroner	MY HARD DRIVE YOU VKNOW
2021-07-06 13:39:27	Dagmar	koollman: TBH i haven't messed around with subdividing slices of my disks like that since I accidentally invented KleinFS
2021-07-06 13:40:06	Dagmar	I was simulating some RAID layouts and the host hypervisor somehow _saw_ the pv markers inside the logical volumes because of a bug in LVM
2021-07-06 13:40:25	Dagmar	Suddenly, I appear to have LOTS more storage
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2021-07-06 13:41:08	Dagmar	A few moments later, a flop-sweat breaks out because i'm prety sure I still only have 14Tb of stuff involved
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2021-07-06 13:42:44	coroner	iTS THE EXTRA FAT CYLINDRICAL SHAFT AND ALLL THE MOISTURE INT HE AIR
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2021-07-06 13:43:21	coroner	what is klienfs
2021-07-06 13:43:50	-->	sinaowolabi (~SinaOwola@102.134.114.1) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 13:43:56	Dagmar	It's a storage system that does not follow euclidean rules
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2021-07-06 13:44:05	coroner	Like what how?
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2021-07-06 13:44:20	Dagmar	How much can you store in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle
2021-07-06 13:44:22	coroner	WEhat the hell odoes euclidiesn mean?
2021-07-06 13:44:36	beltwaybob	euclid made up some postulates
2021-07-06 13:44:47	beltwaybob	if you read them in Greek they make more sense
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2021-07-06 13:45:39	Dagmar	One could argue that a Klien jar actually contains itself
2021-07-06 13:45:43	beltwaybob	For example, he defines the point as that which has position but not dimension
2021-07-06 13:45:48	beltwaybob	Which is obvious nonsense
2021-07-06 13:45:50	Dagmar	This does not bode well for your storage stuff
2021-07-06 13:46:10	beltwaybob	A line is length without breadth
2021-07-06 13:46:13	beltwaybob	obvious nonsense again
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2021-07-06 13:47:04	Dagmar	So the moment you have volume groups being stored inside logical volumes on equal footing with themselves, it's time to start worrying about what's going to happen as you attempt to disentangle that
2021-07-06 13:47:11	hodapp	Euclid's work is good enough to get you pretty far in geometry, though formalizing his definition of a 'line' was a thing that took like 2000 years to really get right and spawned various other geometries in the process
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2021-07-06 13:47:18	hodapp	there's a reason we still speak of Euclidean geometry
2021-07-06 13:47:34	Dagmar	A point _is_ a one-dimensional object
2021-07-06 13:47:56	Dagmar	His rules scale up to as far as the three dimensions we inhabit work
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2021-07-06 13:48:06	Dagmar	Past that, don't even try
2021-07-06 13:48:12	Kyv	we still speak of diogenes too and he shit himself, probably.
2021-07-06 13:48:16	beltwaybob	how can an object have 1 dimension
2021-07-06 13:48:19	kfrench	I thought a point had 0 dimensions, a line had 1, a plane had 2 and a cube had 3.
2021-07-06 13:48:21	hodapp	errr... no? a point may have N-dimensional location, but is zero-dimensional otherwise
2021-07-06 13:48:25	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-06 13:48:38	Dagmar	kfrench: Doh yeah you're right.  Time for me to get lunch
2021-07-06 13:48:55	beltwaybob	into the 540th dimension
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2021-07-06 13:48:56	kfrench	time.  Lunch is 4 dimensions.
2021-07-06 13:49:03	Betal	kfrench++
2021-07-06 13:49:07	Dagmar	I picked a bad way to counter the bogglesome statement about Euclid's view of a point
2021-07-06 13:49:25	beltwaybob	im 100 dimensions
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2021-07-06 13:49:44	hodapp	found the string theorist
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2021-07-06 13:50:40	Kyv	theres a million of them down at the crank house
2021-07-06 13:51:04	Dagmar	There's authors from the 50's who wrote whole books (science fiction mostly) on how badly the fifth postulate breaks down in more than three dimensions
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2021-07-06 13:55:25	justsomeguy	Seems like things seem simple until you add an additional concern to the model. Functions have a simple definition until you start caring about time and complexity.
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2021-07-06 13:56:26	hodapp	even ignoring those, functions still have undecidability if you allow certain classes of recursion and things that are equivalent (e.g. unbounded iteration)
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2021-07-06 13:57:05	hodapp	so suck it, Hilbert
2021-07-06 13:57:21	beltwaybob	:(
2021-07-06 13:57:30	hodapp	it's okay, he's dead
2021-07-06 13:57:31	beltwaybob	how do you even formalize geometry, I think its a con
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2021-07-06 13:57:57	hodapp	you kinda just add axioms that do what you need to do
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2021-07-06 13:58:19	hodapp	then when you find a paradox or inconsistency you talk really loudly over top of it so no one notices
2021-07-06 13:58:46	hodapp	then maybe while they're distracted you either add an axiom or you kludge together a proof that is invalid but looks mostly right
2021-07-06 13:59:04	bdax	does anyone know if any of the async file io apis (linux aio, posix aio, io_uring) can be used with select/poll?
2021-07-06 13:59:05	hodapp	and if you time it right, you die a hero before anyone notices
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2021-07-06 14:06:18	justsomeguy	The history of the foundational crisis of mathematics, and how that leads to the birth of computer science is super interesting. I just started learning about this by looking up things about a programming language I'm learning, and now I've gone six levels deep on wikipedia.
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2021-07-06 14:06:26	justsomeguy	*foundational
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2021-07-06 14:06:47	justsomeguy	I wonder where it all started? Lebiniz in the 17th century, maybe?
2021-07-06 14:07:07	kfrench	justsomeguy: I blame that apple.
2021-07-06 14:07:07	beltwaybob	No, you won't understand those philosophers without understanding Greek philosophy and why we have Universities in the first place.
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2021-07-06 14:07:42	beltwaybob	And the European political situation vis a vis feudalism
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2021-07-06 14:07:49	justsomeguy	I don't understand anything. I'm having fun exploring it, though.
2021-07-06 14:07:52	beltwaybob	Plus there would be people who would dispute the existence of any foundations
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2021-07-06 14:10:57	caterfxo	I Love Lucy?
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2021-07-06 14:11:50	kfrench	caterfxo: Wrong channel.  Try #romance or #paleontology.
2021-07-06 14:11:51	hodapp	justsomeguy: the consequences in formal verification of algorithms/designs/software are also interesting; it's a field that a lot of Smart(tm) programmers kind of deny can even exist or exist in any sort of practical form
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2021-07-06 14:14:03	babyface	what the heck is "linux headers" and why are they needed?
2021-07-06 14:14:20	bparker	you need to be more vague
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2021-07-06 14:14:46	danielrparks	babyface: Linux headers are C header files defining kernel interfaces. You need them to compile kernel modules.
2021-07-06 14:15:28	Sauvin	You also often need them to build non-kernel and non-module code.
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2021-07-06 14:17:25	beltwaybob	they're also fun to look at
2021-07-06 14:19:06	justsomeguy	beltwaybob: There's really so much to it. It's amazing how far back this stuff goes, and also how it has a direct and concrete application in programming language design today. (My exposure is through Haskell, which is based on a typed lambda calculus ...)
2021-07-06 14:19:28	babyface	it's shocking how complicated it is just to install a driver in Linux compared to Windows
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2021-07-06 14:20:14	beltwaybob	babyface: are you shocked?
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2021-07-06 14:20:24	kfrench	babyface: The process is usually: 1) integrate new driver into kernel, 2) driver Just Works(tm) for end user.  Having the user install it always has problems.
2021-07-06 14:20:31	beltwaybob	justsomeguy: well, you can trace philosophy back a ways, to Thales is the traditional foundation
2021-07-06 14:20:37	beltwaybob	he divided the year into days and seasons, or something
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2021-07-06 14:21:01	danielrparks	it's hard because if everything goes well, you won't ever need to install a driver (nvidia is not an example of things going well)
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2021-07-06 14:21:39	beltwaybob	People are still whining about linux 20 years later
2021-07-06 14:21:46	beltwaybob	more tha 20
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2021-07-06 14:21:48	danielrparks	and installing dkms modules is still not that bad
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2021-07-06 14:23:07	Dagmar	Installing hte nvidia module generally "just works" as logn as the user hasn't riced their toolchain or their kernel headers to bits
2021-07-06 14:23:23	babyface	I wonder why the distros include the Broadcom wifi drivers in their repos but don't install the drivers by default?
2021-07-06 14:23:41	Dagmar	It definitely 'just works' as dkms since at least the people on those systems aren't so likely to tamper with and break the system's package inventory
2021-07-06 14:24:12	vitorgonc	babyface, it's probably proprietary
2021-07-06 14:24:13	Dagmar	babyface: licencing.  Also the firm but foolish belief that people will use hardware from a better vendor
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2021-07-06 14:25:56	Dagmar	beltwaybob: I don't suppose Thales wrote anything about subdividing a large list of names into easily navigable subsections in a web page, huh?
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2021-07-06 14:26:24	Dagmar	For a brief and shining moment, I had the bright idea to use the two lowest common denominators
2021-07-06 14:26:25	coroner	broadcom nvidia amd all shit broadcom is reverse engineered code
2021-07-06 14:26:48	Dagmar	...and then I remembered there's a lot of prime numbers between 1 and just 100.
2021-07-06 14:26:59	beltwaybob	Dagmar: that sounds to me like a really easy thing to do
2021-07-06 14:27:14	bdax	out of interest, why haven't the open source kernel developers (linux, bsd, solaris, etc) agreed on a standard driver interface so when a driver is written that work can benefit all open-source kernels?
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2021-07-06 14:27:26	beltwaybob	bdax: we'll just speak for them then
2021-07-06 14:27:29	PaulFertser	coroner: b43 is RE, yes, but brcmsmac and brcmfmac is free software from broadcom themselves.
2021-07-06 14:27:41	bdax	beltwaybob: perhaps you can speak for linux
2021-07-06 14:27:50	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Sure I can just *pick* some values based on thresholds, but then later when this system needs to scale to (surprise!) 10,000 users I'm going to be buggered again
2021-07-06 14:27:56	kfrench	bdax: They have difference license models.
2021-07-06 14:28:11	beltwaybob	Dagmar: you mean 10,000 names in the rolodex?
2021-07-06 14:28:15	Dagmar	Yeah
2021-07-06 14:28:20	danielrparks	beltwaybob: it's pretty much already like that; drivers still need to be maintained when things change regardless
2021-07-06 14:28:27	Dagmar	I've already decided the lettrs will be purely decorative
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2021-07-06 14:28:47	Dagmar	...because if everyone's last name is 'Smith' I'm royally screwed.
2021-07-06 14:28:55	beltwaybob	are you basically trying to make an address book?
2021-07-06 14:29:00	beltwaybob	dont most ppl have like one of those autocorrect bars now?
2021-07-06 14:29:07	beltwaybob	and they'll type smith and it'll dig for which one they mean somehow
2021-07-06 14:29:21	Dagmar	Now I've just got to rummage up a rudimentary set of criteria for how to subdivide them
2021-07-06 14:29:39	Dagmar	Nowhere in my resume does it say I actually know javascript
2021-07-06 14:29:39	bdax	kfrench: as I suspected. The world would be a better place if everyone decided to forget about the concept of copyright
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2021-07-06 14:29:55	Dagmar	...and Javascript will be very necessary to do a "fills in as you go" selector for this
2021-07-06 14:30:00	beltwaybob	thatswell, if you can show N per page, dont you just divide them by showing from index J the next N entries?
2021-07-06 14:30:23	kfrench	The world would be a better place if everyone _______.  You can't get everyone to ______.
2021-07-06 14:30:25	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Yes, but given that the total list may be anywhere from 3 to 200, it's deciding how to subdivide them that gets messy
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2021-07-06 14:30:48	bdax	'be the change you want to see in the world'...
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2021-07-06 14:31:01	bdax	copyright is anathema imo
2021-07-06 14:31:04	Dagmar	I'm tempted to ask for the list of contractors at each center and just look for a gap in the bar chart where they jump from say, 20 to 50
2021-07-06 14:31:10	 *	kfrench gives bdax 2 dimes and a nickle.
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2021-07-06 14:32:00	Dagmar	...but the first rule of development when someone has input but no stake is "plan for when the inevitable useless edge case is asked about":
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2021-07-06 14:32:07	beltwaybob	Dagmar: what do you mean? it's like a phone book except the page is a single virtual page, and you can either scroll the entries, or pages, or both
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2021-07-06 14:32:26	Dagmar	beltwaybob: It was decided that perhaps 100 names was too many to have in a scrollable picklist
2021-07-06 14:32:32	Dagmar	I personally at least partially agree
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2021-07-06 14:32:47	Dagmar	What was suggested was a _fuzzy_ search
2021-07-06 14:33:04	Dagmar	Who, exactly, is going to be confused about their own name and need a fuzzy text search?
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2021-07-06 14:33:18	beltwaybob	ya, I agree with that
2021-07-06 14:33:33	beltwaybob	are people only searching for their own names?
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2021-07-06 14:33:41	Dagmar	I'm not doign anything that will make it even a tiny bit easier for people to enter each other's names
2021-07-06 14:33:56	beltwaybob	What I found with some recent emailing is that some people give different names in their email clients, e.g. XYZ John Smith so that they can search XYZ John and get it, I think
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2021-07-06 14:34:16	Dagmar	I'm giving it less than six months before I'm asked to finally turn on some form of PIN code to solve a layer 9 problem
2021-07-06 14:34:16	beltwaybob	also, isnt this already a part of your email program
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2021-07-06 14:34:34	Dagmar	THis doesn't have anything to do with email actually
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2021-07-06 14:35:26	beltwaybob	oh
2021-07-06 14:35:27	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-06 14:35:32	beltwaybob	only phone #?
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2021-07-06 14:35:38	Dagmar	....and the adding extra bits to the name thing means someone else failed along the wway
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2021-07-06 14:36:01	Dagmar	THis is for people to basically punch in and out
2021-07-06 14:36:25	Dagmar	I do know that thus far I'm certain I'm on the right track about the first level selection being based on their last name
2021-07-06 14:36:30	kfrench	body blow!  body blow!
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2021-07-06 14:37:15	beltwaybob	Dagmar: like a timeclock?
2021-07-06 14:37:16	Dagmar	The final bit where they'll actually see a subset of the names, it'll be First Middle Last and sorted like that because people read from left to right in god-fearing places
2021-07-06 14:37:25	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Exactly like a timeclock
2021-07-06 14:37:26	beltwaybob	they're just going to fat-finger eachothers names
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2021-07-06 14:37:33	beltwaybob	is it going to ask for confirmation?
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2021-07-06 14:37:42	Dagmar	Yeah that's why this started with just a picklist
2021-07-06 14:37:42	beltwaybob	"Your fat fingers pressed BOB SMITH. Are you BOB SMITH?"
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2021-07-06 14:38:07	Dagmar	Plus it's web-based so each and every round requries a full set of detainting and data validation to avoid shens
2021-07-06 14:38:51	beltwaybob	what sort of employee is this for who cannot be trusted to do a timesheet
2021-07-06 14:38:58	<--	PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 14:39:30	Dagmar	THere's confirmation in the form that after they've picked their name it'll show them the last time they touched the system, and tell them that clicking this here button will clock them in/out at such and such time, and there's a cancel button if you don't wanna
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2021-07-06 14:39:44	Dagmar	beltwaybob: WElcome to post-COVID world
2021-07-06 14:40:05	-->	PaulFertser (paul@paulfertser.info) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 14:40:07	Dagmar	...where everything can be a vector for infection which might kill off a third or more of your customers.
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2021-07-06 14:40:18	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-06 14:40:19	beltwaybob	nice
2021-07-06 14:40:21	beltwaybob	1/3 less customers
2021-07-06 14:40:23	beltwaybob	total win-win
2021-07-06 14:40:25	beltwaybob	1/3 less whining
2021-07-06 14:40:29	Dagmar	No, it's not.
2021-07-06 14:40:37	beltwaybob	do the remaining customres whine more?
2021-07-06 14:40:42	kfrench	You don't get to choose which 3rd.
2021-07-06 14:41:09	Dagmar	No, but let's just say their nearest-living loved ones will whine to judges in ways that can be expensive and company-destroying.
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2021-07-06 14:41:28	Dagmar	PLus it's 2021 for pete's sake.  We literally have the technology to make this go away.
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2021-07-06 14:41:47	Dagmar	Morons that won't wear masks becuase freedums aren't allowed near the buildings
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2021-07-06 14:42:08	beltwaybob	you cant force people to use medical devices
2021-07-06 14:42:08	TJ-	Dagmar: there's another interesting angle to that kind of pick list which gets suprisingly good results. First selection is simply a numeric input or spinner "How many years have you worked here? (or "How many months have you worked here?") - that makes the 2nd selection list *much* more manageable /in most cases/
2021-07-06 14:42:11	beltwaybob	I also wont wear a diaper
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2021-07-06 14:42:28	beltwaybob	TJ-: make it like a game of animal crossing
2021-07-06 14:42:55	beltwaybob	If they get a 10/10 attendance record give them a free cabbage avatar
2021-07-06 14:44:15	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Oh I can assure you we have no problems locking the doors and telling people to bugger off entirely
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2021-07-06 14:44:17	TJ-	depending on the scenario, once they're verified the application can leave a cookie so most times in the future it can short-circuit to the offer the ID saved in the cookie
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2021-07-06 14:46:22	beltwaybob	just use biometrics
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2021-07-06 14:47:03	Dagmar	Common terminals
2021-07-06 14:47:04	kfrench	YOu mean company id/swipe card?  That way everyone doesn't have to touch the same touch pad each and every day?
2021-07-06 14:47:24	Dagmar	TJ-: Yeah, but i"m looking to limit the rounds involved in that step of the process
2021-07-06 14:47:51	Dagmar	kfrench: It's actuallly pretty easy to keep a touchscreen device clean.  Plus, nothing beats "use your cell phone connected to the wifi"
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2021-07-06 14:48:20	kfrench	Dagmar: phone+NFC?  I could go with that too.
2021-07-06 14:48:33	TJ-	Dagmar: well 1st time it's an extra round, 2nd round being exact names (not just family name) but with cookie support next time many rounds are removed
2021-07-06 14:48:38	kfrench	Dagmar: My phone + your crappy app?  I'd whine.
2021-07-06 14:49:09	Dagmar	Actually, I'd opt for hte NFC thing in a hot second but not everyone has that type of phone
2021-07-06 14:49:20	Dagmar	It would make things easy as well as pretty darned secure
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2021-07-06 14:49:43	beltwaybob	is work going to pay for my phone?
2021-07-06 14:49:47	kfrench	Dagmar: Plus you have a better chance that people remember to bring their phone, but keep forgetting their company ID.
2021-07-06 14:49:47	TJ-	another, not so secure, option is bluetooth proximity
2021-07-06 14:49:49	beltwaybob	I mean if I am having to use it to do accounting stuff
2021-07-06 14:50:28	TJ-	BT MACs can be spoofed so you might want to only use that to narrow the selection down before user confirms
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2021-07-06 14:50:49	TJ-	Nice thing about BT proximity is there are existing modules to support it, including for PAM
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2021-07-06 14:51:30	TJ-	I used to deploy that to /lock/ workstations when users wandered away (carrying their BT device obviously - no good if they leave it next to the WS!)
2021-07-06 14:51:30	Dagmar	Yeah, BT is another one that would be "secure enough" for this, but it would also require deploying special hardware in over 100 facilities at a time when Raspberry Pis are hard to get in quantities of more than 1
2021-07-06 14:51:42	Dagmar	Can you say 'LOLNOPE'?
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2021-07-06 14:52:02	TJ-	Dagmar: what are the common workstations hardware/capability-wise?
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2021-07-06 14:52:32	bparker	at our datacenter we use prox card, then fingerprint + token attached to the prox card, then iris scan inside an armed guard room, to get onto the main floor
2021-07-06 14:52:34	Dagmar	Anything from a decent smartpohone to an anonymous touchscreen kiosk with a Pi velcroed to the back
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2021-07-06 14:52:43	Dagmar	So, all forms of hardware are out.
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2021-07-06 14:53:19	Dagmar	I think I'm just going to go with 9, 7, 5
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2021-07-06 14:54:46	Dagmar	9 as the largest number of items ever shown at once
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2021-07-06 14:56:04	Dagmar	Depending on the size of the second-round subset, split 'em by 5 or 7
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2021-07-06 14:56:43	Dagmar	I might run that up to the next higher set of primes, but the hard part is _picking how those values_ are set in the first place so it's scalable to arbitrary dimensions
2021-07-06 14:57:12	Dagmar	Using 11, 9, and 7 it'll scale to over 3,400 people with only three levels of choosing
2021-07-06 14:57:37	Dagmar	...and at no point is my server asked to do a lot of work or hold a bunch of bloody temporary tables
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2021-07-06 14:58:26	Dagmar	If I have to go beyond three levels of selection, I might as well be asking people to type
2021-07-06 14:59:42	beltwaybob	Have them show a QR code to a camera
2021-07-06 14:59:43	Dagmar	bparker: At our office the door system annoyihnly uses prox card only.  Although the company who makes it recognizes that a phone with an NFC reader is capable of doing the same challenge with the same installed hardware, they consider that a "premium" service
2021-07-06 14:59:45	beltwaybob	"this is your soul"
2021-07-06 15:00:07	Dagmar	'My soul can be photocopied and faxed?'
2021-07-06 15:00:12	beltwaybob	'Yes'
2021-07-06 15:00:22	koollman	Dagmar: playing with storage, I did sometimes create 'klein storage' as you say. Pretty strange experience. But, reasonnably, it can be made to work, and I do hope to have something usable in the future :)
2021-07-06 15:01:05	Dagmar	koollman: Mainly I was deeply concrned about what was likely to happen to my 8Gb of actual data as I attempted to unwind that mess
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2021-07-06 15:01:37	Dagmar	None of those drives even has an LED on them
2021-07-06 15:01:39	koollman	I can understand that. And, depending the kernel versions, it sometimes can get a bit confused about what device is active/used when duplicates show up
2021-07-06 15:01:54	Dagmar	I have to use a stethoscope if I want to identify a particular disk without removing it from the mounting points
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2021-07-06 15:02:41	Dagmar	Well, at least at the time
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2021-07-06 15:03:07	koollman	now it would be harder, with ssd :)
2021-07-06 15:03:07	Dagmar	Now I've learned my lesson and each has a p-touch label on the visible edge saying wtf the manuf, size, and serial are
2021-07-06 15:03:26	Dagmar	I am not making the kind of money that woudl let me shell out 24Tb on SSDs
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2021-07-06 15:04:02	Dagmar	Well, okay, maybe I am but I'm not the kind of guy to spend that much money
2021-07-06 15:04:31	beltwaybob	you need to budget enough storage to download all of the grateful dead from archive.org
2021-07-06 15:04:37	Dagmar	One of my coworkers has moved up to 8Tb units
2021-07-06 15:04:39	beltwaybob	i kick myself every day that I didn't keep my flacs of the choice soundboards
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2021-07-06 15:04:49	Dagmar	I'm like, "dude, that's too much of a daily depreciation cost"
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2021-07-06 15:05:48	koollman	Dagmar: which is pretty much why I want to make some system that can evolve through time and technology evolution, not "buy sets of N similar disks when you want to expand stuff"
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2021-07-06 15:06:04	Dagmar	beltwaybob: You didn't use -V0 with LAME for the "listening copies"?
2021-07-06 15:06:31	Dagmar	koollman: yeah that's part of the reason I've been making a fairly smooth transition with new drives added over time
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2021-07-06 15:06:42	beltwaybob	Dagmar: I cant remember what I used
2021-07-06 15:06:42	Dagmar	I didn't just run out and buy 10 3Tb disks at once
2021-07-06 15:06:58	koollman	because buying say 8 disks now, rather than say 4 now and 4 later, is usually more expensive. but makning the best use of them is annoying
2021-07-06 15:07:20	Dagmar	All my CDs are ripped and verified, then encoded with LAME's highest-fidelity mode
2021-07-06 15:07:25	koollman	because mayber later the larger disks would make more sense, but the space might be wasted until the next iteration, and so on
2021-07-06 15:07:38	Dagmar	The nine or so people world-wide who will be able to tell the difference aren't ever going to be in my house
2021-07-06 15:08:14	phogg	Dagmar: I guess it's a bit late in the patent lifecycle to complain about not using vorbis, either.
2021-07-06 15:08:30	Dagmar	The vinyls, on the other hand, stay in the garage, in their own poly-bags, with a couple of packs of sodium-silica gel in the double-ply cardboard storage boxes they live in
2021-07-06 15:08:57	phogg	the main reason to encode to lossless is as a hedge against format changes down the line. Transcoding compressed audio compounds losses, there's no escaping that.
2021-07-06 15:09:19	Dagmar	phogg: I have the original media.  I'm just not ripping it all again just because someone wants to demand I use a particular codec.  EVerything can play mp3 format
2021-07-06 15:09:33	Dagmar	The original media is also _not analog_
2021-07-06 15:09:36	beltwaybob	phogg: its to preserve as much of the signal as possible
2021-07-06 15:09:44	phogg	Dagmar: I have my original media, too, but you'd have to PAY me to go through the trouble of re-ripping them
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2021-07-06 15:09:51	Dagmar	There's an absolute maximum of fidelity you're ever going to get out of a CD
2021-07-06 15:10:03	Dagmar	Yeah it took me like two years to rip all thsoe CDs
2021-07-06 15:10:14	beltwaybob	I should rip my CDs
2021-07-06 15:10:16	phogg	beltwaybob: there's not a lot of benefit to that if you can't hear it, so if you never transcode you may as well go to high-quality lossy
2021-07-06 15:10:19	Dagmar	...and that was targeting doing 14 a week
2021-07-06 15:10:21	koollman	Dagmar: for smooth transition over time the best solution I've found so far is using lizardfs. it deals with most pain points, except performance (but it's acceptable for long term storage)
2021-07-06 15:10:42	koollman	(ceph being ... a bit painful for something you want to just keep on working without much maintenance)
2021-07-06 15:11:00	Dagmar	koollman: Well, ceph scales to degrees I will never ever need at home
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2021-07-06 15:11:13	koollman	Dagmar: correct. It also don't scale down gracefully :)
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2021-07-06 15:11:22	beltwaybob	phogg: I prefer burning things to CDs and playing them on a dedicated circuit.
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2021-07-06 15:11:47	beltwaybob	It also creates a more tacticle experience, inserting the album, pushing play, listening to the whole thing, etc. etc.
2021-07-06 15:11:51	koollman	lizardfs works as soon as you have one disk (with obvious limitations), and can deal with any change of storage as long as you give it some time to rebalance/recover
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2021-07-06 15:12:09	Dagmar	no more tactile experiences for me
2021-07-06 15:12:17	phogg	beltwaybob: CDs are not archival safe
2021-07-06 15:12:22	koollman	plus you can easily change the replication or erasure coding on a file by file basis (or directory) if needed
2021-07-06 15:12:26	Dagmar	I'm done with spending whole minutes searching along a shelf for a single CD
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2021-07-06 15:13:09	Dagmar	phogg: SUrprisingly out of the 800 or so I have, only two have shown any signs of rot.  Probably because they were never mistreated and have always been stored in a clean, temperature-controlled place
2021-07-06 15:13:16	Kyv	We have reached a point now where people are getting nostalgiac over the experience of playing CD's.. by god.
2021-07-06 15:13:18	Dagmar	Those two were also made by crap vendors
2021-07-06 15:13:20	beltwaybob	phogg: that is true, that is just for listening
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2021-07-06 15:13:31	koollman	beltwaybob: if you want tactile experience, make a player interface with physical buttons. Just let it control mpd or some other player :)
2021-07-06 15:14:18	koollman	Kyv: I am slightly nostalgic about the experience of burning cd. Even though it was not ... good. :)
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2021-07-06 15:14:21	Dagmar	At this point I'm eyeing craiglist listing for old Zenith radio consoles and Amazon listings for that silicone tubing with individually addressible LEDS in it
2021-07-06 15:14:40	Dagmar	It's gettin' about time to build a Mighty Wurlitzer
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2021-07-06 15:14:53	phogg	Dagmar: if you are careful the lifespan definitely increases, but unless they're sealed away and never used they'll still deteriorate. Bytes on hard disks won't, except for bit flipping and other storage errors.
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2021-07-06 15:15:10	Dagmar	I found one yesterday that was only $100 but it was rather severely water damaged turns out
2021-07-06 15:15:16	koollman	I could have grip running on two drives while burning a cd on a third, without any buffer underrun! it was glorious
2021-07-06 15:15:25	coroner	i need an rj45 to rj45 admin cable for a cisco 800a router admin login interfacve to the console port on thn back of it
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2021-07-06 15:15:37	Dagmar	phogg: As I ripped each CD I bundled them into batches of ten and wrapped them in shipping cellphoane
2021-07-06 15:15:38	koollman	nowaday ... I can send terabytes accross networks, and it's just 'meh' :)
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2021-07-06 15:16:11	Dagmar	I was pretty peeved about the water damaage
2021-07-06 15:16:11	coroner	I had 4 DVDRW drives hoohked up when doing the Fedora 3 livecd dvd usb configuring and compilation shit with anacdonda and kadischi ....
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2021-07-06 15:16:35	Dagmar	I don't have a problem sanding and refinishing the entire cabinet, but if half of it has turned into crumbly spongewood, screw that
2021-07-06 15:16:35	phogg	Dagmar: I keep them in the original jewel cases. I don't like the idea of anything putting pressure on the disc itself.
2021-07-06 15:16:46	beltwaybob	koollman: its different because its not using a laser
2021-07-06 15:16:57	Dagmar	phogg: They're in the cases.  THey wouldn't make neat bricks if they weren't
2021-07-06 15:16:59	Kyv	I have some good memories of burning CDs, yeah. Also, ripping a proper CD using EAC had its own level of satisfaction.
2021-07-06 15:17:07	koollman	beltwaybob: well, sometimes it is. inside the fiber :)
2021-07-06 15:17:13	phogg	Dagmar: okay then, that sounds safe
2021-07-06 15:17:33	Kyv	Some may even say they can still hear those rips today. :|
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2021-07-06 15:17:35	coroner	Dude optical drives and DVDRW media is NOT GOING AWAY IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT DAMNIT
2021-07-06 15:17:38	phogg	Kyv: it was only fun in that it was cool to be on the cutting edge of technology. The mechanics were by no means fun.
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2021-07-06 15:18:12	koollman	coroner: they're gone, really :)
2021-07-06 15:18:20	 *	phogg still has several spindles of blanks
2021-07-06 15:18:29	phogg	I bought more than I'll ever use
2021-07-06 15:18:42	Dagmar	Pretty much everyone's migrated to just using old hard drives.  :)
2021-07-06 15:18:44	koollman	phogg: well, it's the only correct quantity to buy ;)
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2021-07-06 15:19:00	Dagmar	I have a blueray burner.  I have burned all of four bluray disks
2021-07-06 15:19:03	phogg	koollman: the correct quantity would be "slightly more than you ever use" not "thousands more"
2021-07-06 15:19:15	beltwaybob	and lets not forget minidisc
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2021-07-06 15:19:21	beltwaybob	I had a minidisc recorder/player in highschool
2021-07-06 15:19:22	curdlesnoot	or SD cards, in the case of ODE, FDE and such.
2021-07-06 15:19:23	beltwaybob	good stuff
2021-07-06 15:19:25	koollman	phogg: nah, that would be much too reasonable
2021-07-06 15:19:27	coroner	koollman, no I have 6 PCfs IBM pcs with two DVDRW drives a pice thats 12 DVDRW drives and I need a stack of DVDs to write archives of gb of picture files from my mom's genealogy website and save them in a upper shelf somehwere for later untarring and viewing and sharing and posting and my damn forum posts.
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2021-07-06 15:19:31	Dagmar	In comparison, I have a shelf with 5-6 1Tb IDE and SATA disks on it
2021-07-06 15:19:36	phogg	Dagmar: I started in on the DVD rips at one point, too, but it's hellishly time consuming. One day maybe... but the stack of hundreds of movies is daunting.
2021-07-06 15:19:48	koollman	coroner: you just reminded me a great idea I've had a long time ago
2021-07-06 15:19:50	Dagmar	phogg: yeah my wife had an absurd number of DVDs before we got married
2021-07-06 15:20:00	Dagmar	I'm not spending the next eight years ripping htem
2021-07-06 15:20:18	koollman	coroner: you can make a raid6 device over those for long term storage :)
2021-07-06 15:20:19	phogg	Dagmar: If the available shelving units for DVDs are anything to go by most people think that 400 DVDs is a lot.
2021-07-06 15:20:35	coroner	koollman, ok yeah I would do that but how?
2021-07-06 15:20:38	Dagmar	Yeah the wife has like twice that manby
2021-07-06 15:20:39	koollman	(well, not directly, but you should be able to make something similar)
2021-07-06 15:20:48	felco	Oh man, do loose you youth ripping DVDs, that is love
2021-07-06 15:20:53	coroner	I need to turn them into a 10 node thin client clustering server section.
2021-07-06 15:21:00	 *	phogg still buys movies on disc, because digital ownership is just a form of rental
2021-07-06 15:21:08	coroner	USING NFS AND TFTPD ROOT FS ON NFS AND BOOTING WITHOUT DRIVES AT ALL
2021-07-06 15:21:17	phogg	Dagmar: I am past 1k now, I believe. I haven't counted.
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2021-07-06 15:21:28	phogg	coroner: your cruise control is on
2021-07-06 15:21:33	koollman	coroner: I'm not sure how well or bad it would map. you would have to prepare the iso carefully obviously, then maybe use iscsi to share the drives
2021-07-06 15:21:39	Dagmar	phogg: That's why I we buy and then rip, but I'm not ripping the backlog
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2021-07-06 15:22:21	 *	Khaytsus rips when nobody is around
2021-07-06 15:22:25	koollman	coroner: cd/dvd drives  are block devices, so mdadm or lvm might be able to assemble them as a read-only raid, maybe with some writable storage on the side to store array state
2021-07-06 15:22:26	beltwaybob	ultimately minidisc looks really cool
2021-07-06 15:22:33	coroner	phogg let me shift into overDRIVES AND DVDRW DRIVE AND PARK THIS OPTICAL MEDIA IN THE DRIVE
2021-07-06 15:22:39	Dagmar	beltwaybob: real funny
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2021-07-06 15:22:55	coroner	koollman, wri8teable tmpfs
2021-07-06 15:23:05	beltwaybob	Dagmar: im serious, I love how they look
2021-07-06 15:23:07	beltwaybob	very william gibson
2021-07-06 15:23:17	coroner	DVDS ARE COOL MAN
2021-07-06 15:23:19	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-06 15:23:21	beltwaybob	love me some DVDs
2021-07-06 15:23:32	Dagmar	Well, then you'd love the laserdiscs of the 80's and 90's
2021-07-06 15:23:35	Topco	i only have DVD
2021-07-06 15:23:35	beltwaybob	But lots of movies were, ahem, released, without having been on DVD
2021-07-06 15:23:39	beltwaybob	Nah, the laserdisc/cd is too thin
2021-07-06 15:23:44	beltwaybob	it doesn't have a satsfying cartridge
2021-07-06 15:23:57	beltwaybob	if it has a cartridge over the media and a door, that is so much cooler
2021-07-06 15:24:00	Topco	i could run my entire OS from DVD if i wanted to
2021-07-06 15:24:02	phogg	koollman: mdadm and lvm both rely on being able to write superblocks in specific locations, and they also tend to want to be able to overwrite metadata in those blocks. It would be difficult to create a valid set of discs that is also possible to assemble as an array.
2021-07-06 15:24:18	Dagmar	beltwaybob: I think you should just give it another five years before Corsair starts sticking RGB LEDs on goddamn thumbdrives made of largely lucite, and then you can skip straight to Federation technology
2021-07-06 15:24:35	koollman	phogg: that is the 'might' part. I think mdadm has a few modes with external storage for the superblocks
2021-07-06 15:24:46	coroner	topco yes exactly Fedora srever and workstation are from disc OS that run Live thery call it I helped them with all o0f theat traqnsition
2021-07-06 15:24:52	Dagmar	EVer wondered why all the engine and computer parts in the Enterprise lit up for no good reason?
2021-07-06 15:24:58	phogg	koollman: ah yes, you are correct. It does allow that.
2021-07-06 15:24:59	Dagmar	Taiwanese tastes is why.
2021-07-06 15:25:15	beltwaybob	Dagmar: so that you could tell if they were working
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2021-07-06 15:25:23	phogg	Dagmar: saves on the cost of overhead lighting.
2021-07-06 15:25:31	koollman	phogg: and I do remember assembling at least raid1 from readonly devices (with a few precautions), although I don't remember how :)
2021-07-06 15:25:34	beltwaybob	They were very advanced so they had a visual method for determining if a component or section of components wasn't working
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2021-07-06 15:25:40	beltwaybob	every component would have a light associated with it
2021-07-06 15:25:55	Dagmar	beltwaybob: Except we know damn well that just because it lights up doesn't mean it's actually doing anything useful
2021-07-06 15:26:06	coroner	modprobe blinken.lights=1
2021-07-06 15:26:07	phogg	koollman: assembling ro once you have the bits in the right places is completely doable, I was just thinking that putting the blocks where you need them without random access would be hard
2021-07-06 15:26:12	beltwaybob	well, it is just showing that the circuit is active
2021-07-06 15:26:17	beltwaybob	so there still could be problems
2021-07-06 15:26:23	beltwaybob	but the problem isn't that the circuit is receiving no power
2021-07-06 15:26:35	beltwaybob	I mean, sometimes that is the problem, e.g. you have tribbles eating the circuit boards
2021-07-06 15:26:37	coroner	no power no light from an led
2021-07-06 15:26:37	koollman	phogg: loopback mount the future iso, assemble, then stop the raid device :)
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2021-07-06 15:26:49	phogg	Dagmar: just be glad they didn't go with motherboard-style beep codes. On hundreds of computers per room.
2021-07-06 15:26:58	<--	`deb (~relax@142.169.78.74) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 15:27:01	coroner	oh shit no
2021-07-06 15:27:04	phogg	koollman: hmm, might work
2021-07-06 15:27:05	koollman	(well not 'mount', but use the files as block devices)
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2021-07-06 15:27:13	coroner	loud and confussssing
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2021-07-06 15:27:25	phogg	coroner: it would sound like a server room without the power cut
2021-07-06 15:27:42	coroner	cut the coooords mandudez
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2021-07-06 15:28:16	coroner	quit quit like stoppit already dam bios cmos chip set
2021-07-06 15:28:29	coroner	arggggh
2021-07-06 15:28:41	coroner	gettin angry at the rack
2021-07-06 15:28:52	coroner	ears a bleeding
2021-07-06 15:29:00	beltwaybob	calm down
2021-07-06 15:29:04	coroner	ok
2021-07-06 15:29:19	Topco	beep beep i'm a sheep
2021-07-06 15:29:35	coroner	holy shit hop in the meep meep jeep
2021-07-06 15:29:57	-->	zro (~zro@user/zro) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 15:30:19	coroner	run over the beep beep with a jeep over a hairy sheep; deep
2021-07-06 15:30:23	<--	tstruk (~tstruk@50.39.160.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 15:30:28	beltwaybob	beep
2021-07-06 15:30:29	<--	wovixo (~wovixo@128.104.205.49) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 15:30:31	beltwaybob	beep milk truck
2021-07-06 15:30:41	coroner	im not black stoppit coronautopsy
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2021-07-06 15:31:11	coroner	oh i like milk doh
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2021-07-06 15:31:22	coroner	give me more
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2021-07-06 15:31:41	beltwaybob	OK
2021-07-06 15:31:45	beltwaybob	have some fresh milk from the milk truck
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2021-07-06 15:32:32	 *	coroner grabs a gallon of red labelled vitamin D added milk from the milk truck thanks milk man truck driver diver keep it up;
2021-07-06 15:32:43	 *	beltwaybob salutes
2021-07-06 15:32:52	beltwaybob	your consumption of dairy is the first line of defense against the godless communists
2021-07-06 15:33:08	beltwaybob	You need at least 1L of milk a day
2021-07-06 15:33:14	beltwaybob	So that gallon isnt enough for a week
2021-07-06 15:33:15	beltwaybob	only 4 days
2021-07-06 15:33:17	coroner	Red dead redemption
2021-07-06 15:33:19	Kyv	thats grain alcohol and rainwater
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2021-07-06 15:33:59	coroner	rainwater tastes good from a cement curb gutter its fresh
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2021-07-06 15:34:14	coroner	i drink it
2021-07-06 15:34:36	coroner	anybody would in az the desert here 92 degrees in the shade
2021-07-06 15:34:55	coroner	113 in the flat dirt field sun
2021-07-06 15:35:09	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-06 15:35:10	Kyv	even under the little cocktail umbrellas?
2021-07-06 15:35:17	beltwaybob	drinking outdoor water
2021-07-06 15:35:19	Topco	i live in vegas
2021-07-06 15:35:20	beltwaybob	sounds legit
2021-07-06 15:35:26	coroner	yep under water son...
2021-07-06 15:35:28	beltwaybob	Do they have water in vegas?
2021-07-06 15:35:36	beltwaybob	I heard that vegas has lots of underground tunnels to live in
2021-07-06 15:35:47	Topco	the water in vegas is radioactive
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2021-07-06 15:36:05	coroner	Topco whew I thought nobody was from theis parts here everybody asking me why I'm psychotic on IRC cause its fuckin HOT GOD
2021-07-06 15:36:05	 *	msiism just hopes these are degrees Fahrenheit.
2021-07-06 15:36:25	coroner	113 fahrenheight yes
2021-07-06 15:36:44	coroner	spelling typing with one hand
2021-07-06 15:36:46	Topco	my schizophrenia is well managed
2021-07-06 15:36:52	coroner	mine too
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2021-07-06 15:37:00	coroner	well kinda not really
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2021-07-06 15:38:28	coroner	Mesquite in "?V"egas or no for grilling?
2021-07-06 15:38:30	coroner	smoking?
2021-07-06 15:39:05	coroner	The trees ever5ywhere here are mesquite desert broom sage and grass feild grass 4 foot high.
2021-07-06 15:39:53	coroner	The girls are 29 with size B breasts and a 24 inch waist they have blue eyes the weed is chronic green hydroponic and
2021-07-06 15:39:58	coroner	I'm fuckin superman.
2021-07-06 15:40:06	-->	Joan[m] (~joankxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::b7dd) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 15:40:29	coroner	Inspector gadget!
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2021-07-06 15:40:43	coroner	Ok enough from me
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2021-07-06 15:40:49	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-06 15:40:53	coroner	stop coroner geez
2021-07-06 15:40:57	beltwaybob	uwu
2021-07-06 15:41:12	coroner	wow is what again an abbreviation for what?
2021-07-06 15:41:42	Topco	the Mojave is my home
2021-07-06 15:41:53	coroner	Thank you.
2021-07-06 15:41:58	coroner	I love you bro.
2021-07-06 15:42:07	<--	FlorianBad (~FlorianBa@cpe-67-49-107-16.dc.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-06 15:42:14	coroner	The desert is my home Ft. Huachuca
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2021-07-06 15:42:42	curdlesnoot	word of wonderment
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2021-07-06 15:42:58	coroner	Ok so you're really amazed or yes or no?
2021-07-06 15:43:04	beltwaybob	im amazed
2021-07-06 15:43:05	beltwaybob	I cant hold it in
2021-07-06 15:43:10	beltwaybob	im gonna dance
2021-07-06 15:43:12	coroner	hold it on.
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2021-07-06 15:43:16	coroner	yes!
2021-07-06 15:43:33	coroner	Do a break dance3 twirl spin on your back.
2021-07-06 15:43:44	coroner	like a turtle
2021-07-06 15:43:49	beltwaybob	dunno about that
2021-07-06 15:43:57	beltwaybob	its hammer time !!
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2021-07-06 15:44:01	coroner	rofl lol lmao
2021-07-06 15:44:04	 *	Psi-Jack grabs his hammer.
2021-07-06 15:44:11	coroner	dun dun duh duh dun duh dun uh
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2021-07-06 15:44:39	 *	coroner grabs his pipe
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2021-07-06 15:45:12	coroner	I need to breathe through soimne kind of fixture
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2021-07-06 15:49:42	perdmann_	Hey, is there a way to debug a kernel which hangs at "starting kernel..." ?
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2021-07-06 15:51:56	DLange	that's typically a uboot message, perdmann_
2021-07-06 15:52:14	DLange	so it may not even have a working kernel (else that would uncompress next)
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2021-07-06 15:56:34	coroner	make bzImage ; make modules; make modules_install ; make install
2021-07-06 15:57:08	coroner	I know how toi compile kernels straight from kernel.org source codes
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2021-07-06 15:58:24	beltwaybob	that was a fun-filled passtime years ago
2021-07-06 15:58:33	Dagmar	No it wasn't
2021-07-06 15:58:36	<--	ralinux (~saje@37.156.190.205) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 15:58:36	beltwaybob	Sure it was
2021-07-06 15:58:40	beltwaybob	I enjoyed all that stuff
2021-07-06 15:58:46	beltwaybob	Should I have been playing rugby and fishing?
2021-07-06 15:58:48	beltwaybob	Probably
2021-07-06 15:58:50	beltwaybob	But that's life.
2021-07-06 15:58:58	Dagmar	I used to consider all that time to be equal amounts.
2021-07-06 15:59:00	Dagmar	"One overnight"
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2021-07-06 16:02:35	orange97	Hey question, I'm using perl as my primary linux scripting lang. Should you learn bash or is it redundant?
2021-07-06 16:02:47	-->	caterfxo (~caterfxo@47.sub-174-253-195.myvzw.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:03:00	esselfe	bash is worth learning
2021-07-06 16:03:39	-->	galex-713 (~quassel@portable.galex-713.eu) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:04:02	orange97	I mean I tried it but I can't seem to figure out how things work like, it has some unusual features like those bracket things for evaluation and stuff
2021-07-06 16:04:07	esselfe	it's not redundant
2021-07-06 16:04:26	<--	arcatech (~arcatech@user/arcatech) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 16:04:31	qman	shell scripting's advantage is its ubiquity
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2021-07-06 16:04:48	qman	also, it doesn't really have control structures
2021-07-06 16:04:53	qman	it's a series of commands
2021-07-06 16:04:58	-->	Exterminatus (~Extermina@46.235.100.102) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:05:00	qman	[ is an alias to the test command
2021-07-06 16:05:03	curdlesnoot	also, you probably use a shell every day. knowing it better doesn't hurt.
2021-07-06 16:05:04	orange97	Oh i see it now
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2021-07-06 16:05:53	qman	[ -x /bin/cat ]
2021-07-06 16:05:53	qman	is identical to
2021-07-06 16:05:53	qman	test -x /bin/cat
2021-07-06 16:06:35	themachine	but [ ] just makes me feel better
2021-07-06 16:06:39	koala_man	bash and perl are complementary. You don't have to learn bash well, but it's useful to know enough to write a for loop over files, or a simple test expression
2021-07-06 16:06:47	<--	Sven_vB (~sven@user/sven-vb/x-2094958) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 16:07:01	hwm4rgs	Most people at work (development, security, operations) use their shell scripting language for minor day to day tasks and automating simple routine tasks, and dust off their “more powerful” language when something bigger is to be done. It’s very handy.
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2021-07-06 16:09:16	coroner	I just wrote a comprehensive ssytgem test section using about 45 lines in bash and 30 lines in C
2021-07-06 16:09:22	qman	I mean, I've even written an extremely basic web api in shell, though I wouldn't recommend you do that
2021-07-06 16:09:26	coroner	Stress testing
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2021-07-06 16:09:43	coroner	No you didnt
2021-07-06 16:09:48	qman	yes, I did
2021-07-06 16:09:48	coroner	Prove it show us the code
2021-07-06 16:09:58	orange97	a web api? In bash?
2021-07-06 16:10:02	<--	kubast2 (~kubast2@user/kubast2) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 16:10:03	coroner	Yeah rite
2021-07-06 16:10:17	-->	Sven_vB (~sven@user/sven-vb/x-2094958) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:10:21	qman	it has one endpoint, and one function
2021-07-06 16:10:28	coroner	Ok maybeeeee
2021-07-06 16:10:38	coroner	Thats not an API
2021-07-06 16:11:38	qman	there's no rule that says an API has to do more than one thing
2021-07-06 16:11:52	themachine	he did say "extremely basic"
2021-07-06 16:12:11	qman	anyway, I wouldn't do it that way again, at the time that was the only viable tool in my belt for the task, and that's no longer the case
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2021-07-06 16:12:52	coroner	What tools do you know and use now qman?
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2021-07-06 16:13:07	coroner	I bet its ganja.
2021-07-06 16:13:12	esselfe	lol here's a screwdriver, build a bridge buddy :)
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2021-07-06 16:13:15	coroner	Hehe.
2021-07-06 16:13:16	qman	if I were doing it again today, I'd use python, particularly with the swagger editor since it does all the hard work for you
2021-07-06 16:13:35	coroner	Python is neat I like it.
2021-07-06 16:13:54	qman	you define the API spec in the swagger file, then click "gimme python"
2021-07-06 16:14:06	qman	then populate the functionality in the controller files
2021-07-06 16:14:15	qman	super easy
2021-07-06 16:14:20	coroner	esselfe straight short the positive terminal with the negatiove terminal with the bar on the screwdriver thats a bridge for real.
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2021-07-06 16:14:53	coroner	It would probably weld the bar to the terminals ais f it s 12 V car battery
2021-07-06 16:14:59	qman	I'm also not saying python is the best tool for the job, but it's the best tool I know how to use
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2021-07-06 16:15:12	qman	python is easy to use but pretty slow and has its own quirks
2021-07-06 16:15:22	coroner	qman, whats SMPAvailable() and startswith ????
2021-07-06 16:16:01	<--	lucf117_ (~lucf117@user/lucf117) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 16:16:09	coroner	Whats all this snakey worm looking stuff here().this->is.() something like a snake().()
2021-07-06 16:16:14	coroner	Centipede ion vim.
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2021-07-06 16:16:26	qman	and is a more appropriate tool for a web API than shell scripts
2021-07-06 16:16:43	esselfe	why not PHP?
2021-07-06 16:16:51	coroner	Yeah cool. I like returning ints from nain.c
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2021-07-06 16:17:14	coroner	rpm-python is aweseome.
2021-07-06 16:17:26	-->	Haxxa (~Haxxa@122-199-59-136.ip4.superloop.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:17:36	qman	I do have experience with PHP but it's been a very, very long time
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2021-07-06 16:17:48	qman	also, it's kind of a nightmare to do anything other than display web pages with
2021-07-06 16:17:58	esselfe	I see
2021-07-06 16:17:59	orange97	i did one project with php and i decided i dont wanna use it again
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2021-07-06 16:18:16	qman	I did write a big project in PHP that probably definitely shouldn't have been PHP
2021-07-06 16:18:24	Dagmar	Like most things
2021-07-06 16:18:36	qman	but it worked
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2021-07-06 16:19:07	qman	it was a system to manage users' time spent on library computers
2021-07-06 16:19:28	qman	after they had been logged in for a certain amount of time, it would log them off automatically, and had buttons for the staff to extend or kick people
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2021-07-06 16:20:21	coroner	qman, thats very good project fun fun
2021-07-06 16:20:23	qman	it was a windows service, that ran a PHP CLI script, plus a PHP web page for the management on IIS
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2021-07-06 16:20:34	Jacki	guys
2021-07-06 16:20:54	--	MagicConch is now known as mpmc
2021-07-06 16:21:05	Jacki	how to change lightdm gtk icons size ?
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2021-07-06 16:22:16	qman	after the system was done and working, I never heard from the client again, so I don't know how long they used it, they might even still be using it, though I kind of doubt it
2021-07-06 16:23:02	msiism	Jacki: Does the manual page say anything about this?
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2021-07-06 16:23:33	Jacki	is this a polite RTFD ?
2021-07-06 16:23:58	kurahaupo	Read The Friendly Discussion?
2021-07-06 16:24:09	hodapp	Rich Text Format Document?
2021-07-06 16:24:12	Dagmar	Ready the flaming doughnuts!
2021-07-06 16:24:23	hodapp	language please
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2021-07-06 16:25:15	Dagmar	documenta denique legere
2021-07-06 16:25:19	msiism	Jacki: It's a question that might help yourself helping yourself.
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2021-07-06 16:25:49	Azrael_-	hi
2021-07-06 16:26:17	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-07-06 16:26:23	msiism	s/help yourself helping yourself/help you help yourself
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2021-07-06 16:26:45	 *	msiism has a slow brain.
2021-07-06 16:26:48	Azrael_-	i'm root and want to create a new folder at a location but always get the information: mkdir: cannot create directory ‘test’: Permission denied  i know there is a chmod setting i have to change but i just can't remember what it was called again. can you give me a hint?
2021-07-06 16:26:49	Dagmar	I'll say that generally you need to just use a different theme to get lightdm to do things like that
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2021-07-06 16:27:21	Jacki	but the size change i need is big
2021-07-06 16:27:42	Dagmar	Azrael_-: The system generally doesn't countermand root's orders.  If the directory you're in is completely read-only, there's probably a reason for that.
2021-07-06 16:28:30	msiism	Jacki: Doesn't lightdm use just the same icon theme and size as GTK in general (on a particular system)?
2021-07-06 16:28:39	Azrael_-	Dagmar: yeah i know, the folder has 777 as permissions setting. yet there is a folder-attribute which disallows all modifications in there and i just forgot which one it was so i can disable it for now
2021-07-06 16:29:07	Dagmar	Azrael_-: `chattr -i <location>`
2021-07-06 16:29:29	orange97	speaking of root, quite a stupid question but, is there a practical difference to being root and just running sudo bash ?
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2021-07-06 16:29:45	Dagmar	If that sorts it, I'll mention you shouldn't set the immutable bit on things without a very good reason
2021-07-06 16:29:55	Dagmar	orange97: uid 0 is uid 0 is uid 0
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2021-07-06 16:30:28	beltwaybob	spray
2021-07-06 16:31:15	Azrael_-	Dagmar: thanks, that was it. i know it. i just have to mangle some stuff :)
2021-07-06 16:31:21	themachine	orange97: not a real practical difference no
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2021-07-06 16:32:03	orange97	hmm interesting
2021-07-06 16:32:18	themachine	well, that's not entirely accurate
2021-07-06 16:32:23	themachine	it depends on how you have sudo configured
2021-07-06 16:32:36	themachine	if you give a sudo user full root privs then sure there is no practical difference
2021-07-06 16:32:48	themachine	but you can also use sudo to provide only a limited set of commands
2021-07-06 16:32:51	coroner	chattr +i /pub
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2021-07-06 16:33:42	coroner	Tego Calderon El Abayarde Gracias youtube.com el mencho delante
2021-07-06 16:33:49	coroner	I'lll take you there like ric flair
2021-07-06 16:34:00	-->	Bossi (~quassel@p4fc22308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:34:34	coroner	I'm never bored on a computer can you tell I been up for 3 days.
2021-07-06 16:35:02	-->	cheer (~cheer@cpe-76-189-213-198.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:35:04	coroner	Wrote some stress test software and ran it tore up a WDC drive smoked a processor then I swallowed some RAM.
2021-07-06 16:35:08	Dagmar	We already know meth is bad
2021-07-06 16:35:26	coroner	Methamphetamine is good for your metabolism ok.
2021-07-06 16:35:52	Topco	oh boy
2021-07-06 16:35:53	-->	RougeR (~rougex250@user/rouger) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:36:18	coroner	Speeds up your metabolism to the 9th degree you get over colds in 1 day doing it not 3.
2021-07-06 16:36:28	-->	Sven_vB (~sven@user/sven-vb/x-2094958) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 16:36:32	coroner	I know I nkow all about it and how its GOOD actually.
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2021-07-06 16:36:49	rascul	please keep that knowledge to yourself
2021-07-06 16:36:55	coroner	Ok sorry.
2021-07-06 16:37:06	<--	envex (~envex@cpe-173-91-189-33.neo.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 16:37:12	coroner	Gracias El mencho sinaloa cartel and jalisco cartel.
2021-07-06 16:37:15	coroner	Mano y mano
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2021-07-06 16:37:33	@lacroix	coroner, English please and stay on-topic
2021-07-06 16:37:43	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-06 16:38:11	 *	coroner goes into the haze of cigarette smoke and decidses to say its ok for now go to offtopic please coroner please thannk you.
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2021-07-06 16:43:51	Topco	like popcorn in a waffle maker
2021-07-06 16:44:07	coroner	https://paste.centos.org/view/e4e55f75
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2021-07-06 16:49:19	beltwaybob	A point is that which has no part.
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2021-07-06 16:52:07	HumbleGuy	my built in laptop webcam doesnt work, how do i find the name of its driver so i enable it in kernel?
2021-07-06 16:52:19	HumbleGuy	laptop satellite c660-1LD
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2021-07-06 16:53:33	PaulFertser	HumbleGuy: lsusb, then use site:cateee.net "vid pid" search.
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2021-07-06 16:54:35	HumbleGuy	PaulFertser, i dont think its a usb device, rather pci
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2021-07-06 16:55:24	HumbleGuy	thanks i found it [    0.584907] pci 0000:00:02.0: Video device with shadowed ROM at [mem 0x000c0000-0x000dffff]
2021-07-06 16:55:39	akik	HumbleGuy: lspci -vnnk
2021-07-06 16:56:56	PaulFertser	HumbleGuy: a PCI webcam? Unlikely...
2021-07-06 16:57:04	curdlesnoot	indeed.
2021-07-06 16:57:11	HumbleGuy	its in a laptop
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2021-07-06 16:58:11	Kyv	run /dev/video0 in mpv and see if work
2021-07-06 16:58:31	Kyv	or whichever one it is
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2021-07-06 16:59:11	PaulFertser	HumbleGuy: yes, all laptop webcams I've seen so far were USB.
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2021-07-06 16:59:16	HumbleGuy	Kyv, i think there should be another directory between dev and video0
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2021-07-06 16:59:59	Kyv	not here but I will agree with you if you show me what that is
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2021-07-06 17:08:40	felco	oh man.. my ubuntu keeps crashing on me, have enabled sysrq but there is nothing coming out from the kernel
2021-07-06 17:08:43	felco	spooky
2021-07-06 17:08:53	felco	i dont want to use windows man
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2021-07-06 17:09:04	Kyv	odd way of showin it
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2021-07-06 17:09:48	coroner	Ubunturd is fine on your kernel.
2021-07-06 17:10:12	DLange	coroner: if you can't add value, just stay silent, will you?
2021-07-06 17:10:12	felco	i miss the days where I had a hard time crashing the system willing to
2021-07-06 17:11:03	msiism	felco: So, how does your Ubuntu crash?
2021-07-06 17:11:05	felco	maybe that is a sign to me get back to debian man...
2021-07-06 17:11:24	felco	like the baddest way possible, it just freeze the machine or reboot
2021-07-06 17:11:25	akik	felco: sounds like a hardware problem if it doesn't boot at all
2021-07-06 17:11:42	felco	nah, it boots ok
2021-07-06 17:11:47	msiism	felco: How do you know it freezes the machine?
2021-07-06 17:11:48	felco	but i loose all my work
2021-07-06 17:11:54	<--	ahungry (~user@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 17:11:59	felco	because sometimes, i get to see it
2021-07-06 17:12:04	felco	sometimes it will reboot
2021-07-06 17:12:08	beltwaybob	Just use slackware
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2021-07-06 17:12:14	akik	how does it boot now but didn't boot some lines ago?
2021-07-06 17:12:22	DLange	felco: anything in the logs?
2021-07-06 17:12:28	msiism	beltwaybob: Are you even aware of what you'Re suggesting there?
2021-07-06 17:12:28	felco	oh man haha, that is going way back to me, i dont even remember slack
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2021-07-06 17:13:07	Topco	i use puppy linux
2021-07-06 17:13:16	beltwaybob	msiism: ya
2021-07-06 17:13:17	felco	DLange no logs man, i was expecting the kernel to give me an oops but didn't happened
2021-07-06 17:13:21	beltwaybob	whats wrong with slackware
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2021-07-06 17:13:39	elefant	hi
2021-07-06 17:13:46	beltwaybob	Slackware has everything you need: fvwm and emacs
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2021-07-06 17:14:27	felco	akik last week, i put this machine to ran windows and it didn't crashed, i was thinking about a hardware problem, but it is not that
2021-07-06 17:14:53	msiism	beltwaybob: It may have everyhting you need, sure. But, like, managing packages out of Slackware's "everything you need" scope is really a pain.
2021-07-06 17:14:58	beltwaybob	not really
2021-07-06 17:15:10	akik	felco: so it boots only 50% of the times you try?
2021-07-06 17:15:11	beltwaybob	it only became a pain once you had things so tightly integrated that distros were effectively not interoperable
2021-07-06 17:15:24	felco	akik now it will boot 100% of the time
2021-07-06 17:15:28	beltwaybob	Before that it was just a matter of downloading and compiling things that were more or less developed to be compilable on any distro with a compiler
2021-07-06 17:15:28	felco	it boots ok
2021-07-06 17:15:35	msiism	beltwaybob: So, like 1993?
2021-07-06 17:15:36	felco	s/now/no
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2021-07-06 17:16:15	beltwaybob	msiism: I think it was after that, I would say into 2000s
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2021-07-06 17:16:36	akik	felco: enable persistent systemd journal, then you can read the logs after a crash
2021-07-06 17:16:37	beltwaybob	Slackware is still very usable
2021-07-06 17:16:38	felco	akik the problem is to keep running
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2021-07-06 17:17:07	msiism	beltwaybob: I wasn't saying it's not usable.
2021-07-06 17:17:16	<--	nekonibble (~nekonibbl@user/nekobit) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 17:17:16	felco	akik but i was tail'in the kern.log, there is nothing happening there
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2021-07-06 17:17:27	HumbleGuy	everywhere i look on the internet for drivers info i see only windows, isn't there a linux archive or a general source of information of all drivers names from all computer models?
2021-07-06 17:17:36	HumbleGuy	and i dont see any driver names
2021-07-06 17:17:36	beltwaybob	msiism: well then what are you saying
2021-07-06 17:17:46	felco	or... it dumps something but my screen is ded before i could even read
2021-07-06 17:17:57	beltwaybob	I mean, you can run fvwm, emacs, latex and xdvi
2021-07-06 17:17:59	beltwaybob	what more can you want
2021-07-06 17:18:02	felco	maybe I should keep an ssh here and watch
2021-07-06 17:18:03	beltwaybob	also you can have a printer
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2021-07-06 17:18:10	beltwaybob	ideally it is 5 years old that way it will probably work
2021-07-06 17:18:20	msiism	beltwaybob: Okay, have fun.
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2021-07-06 17:18:52	beltwaybob	thanks
2021-07-06 17:18:53	beltwaybob	I will
2021-07-06 17:18:56	beltwaybob	celebrate good times
2021-07-06 17:19:01	beltwaybob	laissez les bon temps rouler !!
2021-07-06 17:19:49	<--	Topco (~Topco@cpe-104-33-143-95.socal.res.rr.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 17:19:53	akik	french is such a sexy language, but i have no idea what you said
2021-07-06 17:20:10	<--	Gorian__ (~default@134.134.139.78) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 17:20:14	lacroix	he said.. let the good times flow
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2021-07-06 17:20:30	felco	nice
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2021-07-06 17:21:04	Kyv	how many gallons of good times are we looking at
2021-07-06 17:21:12	 *	msiism looks at list of recommendable Linux distros left…
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2021-07-06 17:21:21	hodapp	what? for 53 of the last 75 years, German has been rated the 'Most Romantic Language'
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2021-07-06 17:21:30	hodapp	and in the top 5 in all of the last 75
2021-07-06 17:21:36	felco	that is nice joke i guess
2021-07-06 17:21:59	Topco	i highly recommend Puppy Linux
2021-07-06 17:22:10	kurahaupo	romance language != romantic language
2021-07-06 17:22:12	felco	it is deb based?
2021-07-06 17:22:22	Topco	its everything based
2021-07-06 17:22:41	Topco	i'm based you're based it's based.
2021-07-06 17:22:55	felco	nah... if I trow ubuntu of my desk I will use Debian man...
2021-07-06 17:23:09	Topco	its also ubuntu babsed
2021-07-06 17:23:16	Kyv	okay
2021-07-06 17:23:18	felco	but I was advised to use Arch, never tested it
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2021-07-06 17:23:34	msiism	felco: By an Arch user?
2021-07-06 17:23:48	felco	Of course haha
2021-07-06 17:23:57	felco	It is the new slackware they said
2021-07-06 17:24:02	msiism	Well, at least they're using what they recommend.
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2021-07-06 17:24:33	Kyv	What is the problem?
2021-07-06 17:24:38	msiism	There's no new Slackware, really. I mean, the new Slackware is Slackware 15, which is probably ging to be out "soon".
2021-07-06 17:24:57	msiism	Kyv: Linux.
2021-07-06 17:25:58	<--	ice9 (~ice9@user/ice9) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 17:26:07	<--	GrantN05 (GrantN05@user/grantn05) has quit (Quit: Bye)
2021-07-06 17:26:29	msiism	Some people just don't seem to realize that "when it's ready" is not a sane release model.
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2021-07-06 17:27:16	iLinux-OS-User	If it is released when not ready is sane?
2021-07-06 17:27:40	beltwaybob	msiism: it depends what you're using it for
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2021-07-06 17:28:41	iLinux-OS-User	You should release something when it is ready and not just to release a "New" release. Linux distros are broken because of the Release frenzy...
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2021-07-06 17:28:45	beltwaybob	ok, store, slackware.com isnt loading, so maybe that is a concern
2021-07-06 17:29:05	felco	maybe it is broken just to you hehe
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2021-07-06 17:30:00	msiism	The problem with this is usually that, up to when it's ready, no one can really estimate when "it" will be "ready", which is a constant disappointment to users and puts constant additional pressure on developers.
2021-07-06 17:30:13	Erus_Iluvatar	Imo it's the "release" model which is broken
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2021-07-06 17:30:43	msiism	OpenBSD does the right thing here.
2021-07-06 17:31:24	iLinux-OS-User	Open BSD lacks Apps...
2021-07-06 17:31:32	<--	DevAntoine (~DevAntoin@78.196.234.32) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-06 17:31:37	Kyv	why it never instills confidence when a person says "I will do it when I'm ready"
2021-07-06 17:32:02	msiism	iLinux-OS-User: So?
2021-07-06 17:32:10	beltwaybob	I will do it when I do it
2021-07-06 17:32:28	Kyv	I'm doing it til I'm done doing it
2021-07-06 17:32:45	Kyv	5 more minutes
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2021-07-06 17:33:09	iLinux-OS-User	We use Computers to run Software. BSD is wonderful but not useful due to lack of Apps cmpared to Linux...
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2021-07-06 17:33:43	felco	there is some bsd distros out there, that is not true
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2021-07-06 17:34:03	Kyv	it is plenty useful
2021-07-06 17:34:13	Erus_Iluvatar	iLinux-OS-User: when you say it that way, why use Linux if Windows has more apps?
2021-07-06 17:34:26	<--	mikail (~mikail@90.152.14.81) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-06 17:34:28	felco	yeah yeah nailed
2021-07-06 17:34:32	Topco	free beer
2021-07-06 17:34:40	B33F_133F	the word "apps" should probably *not* be associated with linux.
2021-07-06 17:34:57	msiism	iLinux-OS-User: That might be true in your case. But also, just because something is not in the base system, that doesn't mean you cannot run it.
2021-07-06 17:34:58	akik	B33F_133F: it's just another name for a program
2021-07-06 17:35:04	Kyv	what it means is spotify and telegram has some problems
2021-07-06 17:35:18	<--	Camilo (~hugh@80-42-5-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-06 17:35:21	B33F_133F	akik: I'm aware.
2021-07-06 17:35:35	 *	msiism wonders if app (the abbreviation) is an Apple-ish term, originally.
2021-07-06 17:35:35	akik	did reddit die ?
2021-07-06 17:35:43	msiism	One would hope so.
2021-07-06 17:35:54	iLinux-OS-User	We are talking linux here. If Windows has 100 Apps for one purpose, only 10 are good. If Linux has 10 Apps for one purpose, 5-7 are good.
2021-07-06 17:35:56	akik	apple does their thing
2021-07-06 17:36:28	Kyv	it is not merely a name for a program
2021-07-06 17:36:40	beltwaybob	"apps"
2021-07-06 17:36:46	akik	programs
2021-07-06 17:36:49	B33F_133F	appy apps
2021-07-06 17:36:57	iLinux-OS-User	AFK
2021-07-06 17:37:16	Kyv	crack open the bash app, or the vim app
2021-07-06 17:37:28	Kyv	you would think it was some kind of perversion for mobile
2021-07-06 17:37:43	msiism	Why would you crack it open, though?
2021-07-06 17:37:46	<--	attronarch (~gerovit@user/attronarch) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-06 17:37:50	Kyv	thats what you do with apps
2021-07-06 17:37:55	Kyv	you crack em open
2021-07-06 17:37:58	msiism	Oh, I had no idea.
2021-07-06 17:37:59	beltwaybob	develop as many apps as possible
2021-07-06 17:38:00	Kyv	like pistachios
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2021-07-06 17:38:19	B33F_133F	pipe the data into the curl app, from the app output.
2021-07-06 17:38:21	akik	cracking an app removes its copy protection
2021-07-06 17:38:21	<--	bdax (~tom@94.2.241.18) has quit (Quit: bdax)
2021-07-06 17:38:21	felco	calls yourself Apps McAppsFace
2021-07-06 17:38:24	beltwaybob	emacs-app
2021-07-06 17:38:45	 *	B33F_133F feels the urge to shower after having typed that.
2021-07-06 17:38:59	<--	progandy (~progandy@user/progandy) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 17:39:15	felco	who says folder instead of directories
2021-07-06 17:39:19	Topco	rip
2021-07-06 17:39:24	beltwaybob	folder
2021-07-06 17:39:30	felco	don't do that
2021-07-06 17:39:33	B33F_133F	felco: customers.
2021-07-06 17:39:38	felco	you are betraying the linux moviment
2021-07-06 17:39:38	beltwaybob	let me see the folder
2021-07-06 17:39:50	Kyv	I call them dossiers
2021-07-06 17:39:50	beltwaybob	show me the hidden folder
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2021-07-06 17:39:59	beltwaybob	catchers
2021-07-06 17:40:24	msiism	It seems that .app was a NextStep thing.
2021-07-06 17:40:41	felco	that makes a lot of sense
2021-07-06 17:41:16	swl	Are .AppImages apps? It's in the name
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2021-07-06 17:41:41	simbaclaws	hi all, I'm having issues with my keyboard disconnecting often. It gave a message about high speed usb device disconnected xhci_hcd. I fixed it by blacklisting xhci_hcd but this means I'm now running on usb 2.0... This problem doesn't occur on my windows system.
2021-07-06 17:41:41	felco	apple uses an app as an folder
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2021-07-06 17:41:57	simbaclaws	hmmm seems like it's still disconnecting and reconnecting
2021-07-06 17:42:06	akik	swl: the linux app directorate says yes
2021-07-06 17:42:10	bparker	simbaclaws: what mobo
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2021-07-06 17:42:21	bparker	and/or chipset
2021-07-06 17:42:24	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-06 17:42:47	DLange	Install from the apt store? :)
2021-07-06 17:42:48	simbaclaws	I have a usb switch connected to a usb port in the back of my desktop. the usb controller is a ASMedia technoplogy, which is known to have issues
2021-07-06 17:42:54	simbaclaws	a crosshair vi hero
2021-07-06 17:43:24	simbaclaws	ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1143 USB 3.1 Host Controller
2021-07-06 17:43:31	felco	maybe the hair is crossing somewhere it is not supposed to cross?
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2021-07-06 17:43:39	felco	sorry haha
2021-07-06 17:43:42	bparker	my intel board has the same issue
2021-07-06 17:43:50	simbaclaws	I'm not sure how to solve this without getting a new mobo, since my windows desktop doesn't have this issue I'm guessing it's linux kernel related
2021-07-06 17:43:52	bparker	either the controller itself (early NEC) or the linux driver is just buggy
2021-07-06 17:44:02	simbaclaws	lol felco
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2021-07-06 17:44:11	DLange	typically this is too agressive powersaving
2021-07-06 17:44:17	bparker	moving the device onto a usb 2.0 port fixes the issue
2021-07-06 17:44:27	bparker	I have no powersaving on either
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2021-07-06 17:44:41	simbaclaws	nut sure which of my ports are usb 2.0 I blacklisted xhci_hcd which should effectively downgrade my ports to usb 2.0 no?
2021-07-06 17:44:46	simbaclaws	and it's still happening
2021-07-06 17:45:04	simbaclaws	I'll try all of my different ports
2021-07-06 17:45:04	msiism	felco: So, maybe try another distro just for the fun of seeing whether it will also crash constantly? (re: Ubuntu crashes)
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2021-07-06 17:45:12	simbaclaws	I'm not sure how to test it since it happens randomly
2021-07-06 17:45:14	felco	yeah man
2021-07-06 17:45:40	bparker	simbaclaws: the controller itself can still be buggy. it's possible the windows drivers have workarounds
2021-07-06 17:45:42	felco	I'll have to that... I didn't wanted to though
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2021-07-06 17:45:55	simbaclaws	yeah I'm guessing that's the case :/
2021-07-06 17:46:01	bparker	the 3.0 ports are usually blue
2021-07-06 17:46:09	bparker	and 2.0 is anything else
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2021-07-06 17:46:14	msiism	felco: Have you actually tested your hardware recently?
2021-07-06 17:46:15	simbaclaws	I know, but they aren't on my mobo, they're literally all black
2021-07-06 17:46:21	bparker	wondeful
2021-07-06 17:46:24	simbaclaws	yep...
2021-07-06 17:46:38	DLange	try echo -1 >/sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend     and then putting in the USB keyboard
2021-07-06 17:46:46	felco	msiism What I did was run Windows for a week, and a month before that
2021-07-06 17:46:48	DLange	(only applies to new USB devices)
2021-07-06 17:46:55	bparker	define new
2021-07-06 17:47:09	felco	I suspect that have to do with nvidia, but I nothing using their drivers
2021-07-06 17:47:13	DLange	devices plugged in newly after that change
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2021-07-06 17:47:18	simbaclaws	only the keyboard or the entire switch with the keyboard, mouse and headset? Because it's just the keyboard having issues connected to the switch
2021-07-06 17:47:33	DLange	try both, not that hard, is it?
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2021-07-06 17:47:36	Kyv	felco: you are using nouveau with nvidia card?
2021-07-06 17:47:40	felco	yes
2021-07-06 17:47:46	simbaclaws	yeah got a good point
2021-07-06 17:47:48	Kyv	you should have said that from the beginning.
2021-07-06 17:48:16	Kyv	so you are not sure if it is just X that freezes?
2021-07-06 17:48:20	felco	but man, I have had a install with the nvidia blobs, had the same behavior
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2021-07-06 17:48:35	felco	Kyv no, I sure it is the whole machine
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2021-07-06 17:48:50	Kyv	you have tried to kill X remotely?
2021-07-06 17:48:50	jdmark	I just hung up on the person interviewing me for inMotion Hosting
2021-07-06 17:49:05	jdmark	I hung up over their stupid fucking linux questions
2021-07-06 17:49:05	Topco	got em
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2021-07-06 17:49:11	felco	Kyv I can't, the machine will not respond to connections
2021-07-06 17:49:13	simbaclaws	wait one question: how can I enter in the command without a keyboard xD I don't have a onscreen keyboard installed and the switch also has my mouse
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2021-07-06 17:49:59	Kyv	hm, then I am a little less confident now in calling it
2021-07-06 17:50:00	DLange	simbaclaws: enter the command, disconnect the keyboard, reconnect the keyboard
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2021-07-06 17:50:07	simbaclaws	ok gotcha
2021-07-06 17:50:17	felco	Kyv the machine really freezes, like we did back in the 90 when we just pull the cartridge from the console, it may live something but you know it is pretty much ded
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2021-07-06 17:50:39	Topco	rip
2021-07-06 17:51:04	msiism	felco: Have you tried different versions of Ubuntu?
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2021-07-06 17:51:55	felco	That started on 18.04, back there the xorg would die and get back, but now the problem seems to have worsen a little bit
2021-07-06 17:52:15	simbaclaws	what is a good way to test whether it works? I am not seeing it happen but it happened randomly....
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2021-07-06 17:52:41	DLange	just wait, simbaclaws
2021-07-06 17:52:43	simbaclaws	should I check my dmesg logs maybe?
2021-07-06 17:53:01	DLange	https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/power-management.txt for more info on what to do with USB power-management
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2021-07-06 17:53:20	DLange	i.e. the newer autosuspend_delay_ms (also set to -1 to disable)
2021-07-06 17:53:23	simbaclaws	it appears as though it was fixd
2021-07-06 17:53:37	msiism	Probably fixed by fixd.
2021-07-06 17:53:52	simbaclaws	nevermind it happened again
2021-07-06 17:54:09	simbaclaws	fixed was cut off
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2021-07-06 17:54:21	simbaclaws	isconnect and reconnect
2021-07-06 17:54:25	msiism	simbaclaws: Does that machine have a PS2 connector for keyboards?
2021-07-06 17:54:39	simbaclaws	no it doesn't I think, let me check just to make sure
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2021-07-06 17:54:55	simbaclaws	nope
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2021-07-06 17:55:27	simbaclaws	this does make me think that the windows drivers seem to have this issue fixed while the kernel doesn't :/
2021-07-06 17:56:17	msiism	Why are you not connecting the keyboard driectly to the machine, by the way?
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2021-07-06 17:56:44	simbaclaws	ecause I have a usb switch that is connected to 2 machines so I can switch them with a button
2021-07-06 17:57:07	msiism	I see.
2021-07-06 17:57:09	simbaclaws	I also have a software kvm called barrier, but this is still useful for whenever I boot into the machine without an OS or barrier installed
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2021-07-06 17:58:14	simbaclaws	both mac os and windows don't seem to have this issue, it's specifically the linux kernel with this motherboards usb controller
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2021-07-06 17:58:37	simbaclaws	 have more then one usb controller so I guess I can still try other ports
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2021-07-06 17:59:14	simbaclaws	is there a way to check which usb controller a usb device is connected to?
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2021-07-06 17:59:28	felco	lsusb?
2021-07-06 17:59:38	felco	i just guessed, dunno if it exists
2021-07-06 17:59:49	simbaclaws	yes it does, but I'm not sure if it displays this info
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2021-07-06 17:59:50	simbaclaws	let me check
2021-07-06 17:59:57	felco	oh that exists, you may have a tree there
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2021-07-06 18:00:50	felco	lsusb -t
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2021-07-06 18:02:13	simbaclaws	it shows my hid devices, but it doesn't tell me which usb controller it is
2021-07-06 18:02:25	<--	Crescendo (~Crescendo@user/crescendo) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-06 18:02:36	simbaclaws	even with lsusb -v
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2021-07-06 18:03:12	simbaclaws	let's see if my front panel does work
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2021-07-06 18:03:27	simbaclaws	but that would be annoying because then I'd have to put my live distro's in the back
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2021-07-06 18:03:54	msiism	Or just turn the machine around?
2021-07-06 18:04:01	simbaclaws	lol nah
2021-07-06 18:04:07	simbaclaws	then I'd have a hard time turning it on
2021-07-06 18:04:16	msiism	Well… :)
2021-07-06 18:04:17	simbaclaws	it's underneath my desk
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2021-07-06 18:04:29	simbaclaws	ave to make sacrifices I guess
2021-07-06 18:04:39	simbaclaws	let's see if this usb controller in the front panel works....
2021-07-06 18:04:46	simbaclaws	nope, still disconnects
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2021-07-06 18:05:41	ayao	why I can't paste text from buffer to running in wine program? it's pasted only partially
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2021-07-06 18:08:23	simbaclaws	mmmm still happens on any usb port. These are in my dmesg log:
2021-07-06 18:08:33	simbaclaws	[ 1893.767517] usb 1-7.3: reset full-speed USB device number 26 using xhci_hcd
2021-07-06 18:08:35	simbaclaws	[ 1894.517707] usb 1-7.3: Warning! Unlikely big volume range (=4096), cval->res is probably wrong.
2021-07-06 18:08:37	simbaclaws	[ 1894.517712] usb 1-7.3: [11] FU [Sidetone Playback Volume] ch = 1, val = 0/4096/1
2021-07-06 18:08:39	simbaclaws	[ 1894.837319] usb 1-7.2: reset full-speed USB device number 25 using xhci_hcd
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2021-07-06 18:13:34	simbaclaws	the only issues I can find about this are from really old linux kernels
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2021-07-06 18:14:47	simbaclaws	maybe it has to do with too much power draw or perhaps the single usb port not being able to handle all the different usb devices?
2021-07-06 18:14:55	simbaclaws	I find it strange because this does work on other systems :/
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2021-07-06 18:15:56	simbaclaws	the hub itself does not have a power supply
2021-07-06 18:16:12	simbaclaws	switch*
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2021-07-06 18:16:45	Dagmar	You're flirting with doom there then
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2021-07-06 18:18:01	simbaclaws	I'll try with just the keyboard and not the switch
2021-07-06 18:18:13	Dagmar	Unpowered USB hubs are dodgy on good days.  Anything more than a keyboard and mouse is generally asking for problems.
2021-07-06 18:18:43	Dagmar	There's only so much power to go 'round from one usb host unit (500mA maximum)
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2021-07-06 18:19:35	simbaclaws	hmmm I just realized the switch itself does seem to disconnect now, but the keyboard that is directly in the pc is not having this issue anymore
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2021-07-06 18:19:42	simbaclaws	it is indeed the switch drawing too much power
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2021-07-06 18:19:51	simbaclaws	I guess I need a new switch :/
2021-07-06 18:19:54	Dagmar	They usually are
2021-07-06 18:20:03	felco	some have a dc input for 5v
2021-07-06 18:20:04	simbaclaws	it's odd how this doesn't happen on windows and macos though...
2021-07-06 18:20:14	Dagmar	This is the thing that actually caused Linus to notice Linux _wasn't_ checking the power levels available for storage media
2021-07-06 18:20:26	<--	OPK (~OPK@user/opk) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-06 18:20:43	Dagmar	...which can cause flash media like thumbdrives to just up and suffer a fatal event if they don't have enough power when they try to write.
2021-07-06 18:21:00	Dagmar	Windows generally isn't smart enough to notice.
2021-07-06 18:21:08	<--	dalan (~dalan@110-175-157-170.tpgi.com.au) has quit (Quit: dalan)
2021-07-06 18:21:21	simbaclaws	ok so imagine the following: I have a case for a sata ssd that I want to use for my raspberry pi. Would it be able to draw enough power from the pi? Or do I need a case that also has a power supply?
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2021-07-06 18:21:38	simbaclaws	preferably having the image on the raspberr pi
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2021-07-06 18:21:45	neshpion	i don't know anything about anything but i would opt for the externally powered drive case
2021-07-06 18:21:52	Dagmar	A single sata SSD should be fine as long as you're using the official Pi power supply (which has plenty of amperage)
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2021-07-06 18:22:10	simbaclaws	yeah I lost mine so I ordered an official one
2021-07-06 18:22:22	simbaclaws	it's coming in a couple of weeks
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2021-07-06 18:22:34	Dagmar	One external non-spinner plugged into the USB port on a pi is well within the spec for use with a 2.5Ah power supply
2021-07-06 18:22:36	simbaclaws	has the logo on it and all the correct power voltages and amperes
2021-07-06 18:22:49	simbaclaws	it's a raspberry pi 2 model b
2021-07-06 18:22:52	simbaclaws	does it still count?
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2021-07-06 18:23:01	beltwaybob	what's the raspberry pi like?
2021-07-06 18:23:11	Dagmar	It's when you try to use one that's only supplying "just" enough to run the Pi and you add an extra 400-600mAh draw that things go pear-shaped
2021-07-06 18:23:20	felco	slow but powerful
2021-07-06 18:23:26	simbaclaws	it's not that fast tbh, but I juyst want it for a svn repository that I want to setup that should be accesible from the outside
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2021-07-06 18:23:39	Dagmar	simbaclaws: Provided you got the one for the Pi2 that has a micro-USB connector on it
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2021-07-06 18:23:45	Dagmar	The newer ones use a USB-C connector
2021-07-06 18:23:48	simbaclaws	I'm hoping running the raspberry image on the pi itself will speed up the pi
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2021-07-06 18:23:57	simbaclaws	yeah I do :)
2021-07-06 18:24:05	Dagmar	Ah you'll be fine then
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2021-07-06 18:24:11	simbaclaws	on the ssd*
2021-07-06 18:24:21	Dagmar	I say this having personally burned up four microSD cards in six months because I got the damn things mixed up
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2021-07-06 18:24:34	simbaclaws	good
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2021-07-06 18:24:37	Dagmar	It turns out the pi3b will run just fine on 1Ah
2021-07-06 18:24:42	simbaclaws	now I just need to get a new usb switch :/
2021-07-06 18:24:50	felco	back to my crash reports: Seems like the system crash while I have a busy gnome desktop, ie when I working
2021-07-06 18:24:59	Dagmar	It will not, however, sustain two wireless dongles, the onboard wireless, and writing to the microSD card at the same time.  ;)
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2021-07-06 18:25:14	Dagmar	I really thought I was using my 2.1A power supply
2021-07-06 18:25:20	Dagmar	THey look a lot alike
2021-07-06 18:25:24	simbaclaws	:(
2021-07-06 18:25:35	simbaclaws	don't the official power supplies have a raspberry pi logo on it?
2021-07-06 18:25:46	Dagmar	Yeah but I have a lot of USB stuff
2021-07-06 18:25:51	simbaclaws	ah ok
2021-07-06 18:25:59	Dagmar	I don't have to go buy a specific one.  I just need to know what the device needs
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2021-07-06 18:26:11	neshpion	the pi sticker gives it +200MAh
2021-07-06 18:26:19	Dagmar	If the specs say USB-C and 2.5mAh well, I have those just lying around
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2021-07-06 18:26:47	Dagmar	For the 3's I generally prefer the 5.1V one that Adafruit sells because it'll put up with a longer USB cable much better
2021-07-06 18:27:10	simbaclaws	https://www.amazon.com/Switcher-Selector-Computers-Keyboard-Compatbile/dp/B082K87B87/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=USB+Hub+with+Switches+and+Power+Adapter&qid=1625610376&sr=8-11
2021-07-06 18:27:14	simbaclaws	this is basically my switch
2021-07-06 18:27:26	Dagmar	Under load the voltage sags and unless you're using a good USB cable (or one shorter than 6ft) you run the risk of seeing that warning LED come on
2021-07-06 18:27:28	simbaclaws	I need a similar one but with a power supply
2021-07-06 18:28:04	felco	that hub has a dc input
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2021-07-06 18:28:09	simbaclaws	it does???
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2021-07-06 18:28:12	simbaclaws	hold on let me check
2021-07-06 18:28:15	felco	yeah, at least in the pic
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2021-07-06 18:28:26	simbaclaws	what the hell you're right I didn't even noti8ce!
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2021-07-06 18:28:36	simbaclaws	wow....
2021-07-06 18:28:38	simbaclaws	I'm stupid
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2021-07-06 18:29:00	simbaclaws	5v micro usb
2021-07-06 18:29:02	koala_man	2.5mAh?! 200MAh?!
2021-07-06 18:29:03	Dagmar	It should also be plugged into a USB 3.0 port on the back of your motherboard if you want to be reasonably sure it's goign to get the power it needs
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2021-07-06 18:30:00	simbaclaws	now all I need is a long micro usb cable that I can plug into a power socket
2021-07-06 18:30:01	Dagmar	Pro-tip: Don't try and power that with one of the PCs involved.  ;)
2021-07-06 18:30:14	simbaclaws	I have a power socket under my desk and the switch goes into holes in the desk
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2021-07-06 18:30:30	simbaclaws	why not?
2021-07-06 18:30:31	Dagmar	Sounds blissful
2021-07-06 18:30:37	Dagmar	I had to run trays under mine
2021-07-06 18:31:08	simbaclaws	so why shouldn't I run the micro usb dc in to my usb inside of my computer :P?
2021-07-06 18:31:16	Dagmar	simbaclaws: Well, loops for one thing.  FOr the other, if it could supply enough juice it would already be doing that with the USB connection
2021-07-06 18:31:49	Dagmar	I'm saying don't just take another USB cable and connect it from either of those PCs to the port on the hub that's clearly meant for additional power
2021-07-06 18:31:50	simbaclaws	that makes sense
2021-07-06 18:32:00	Dagmar	It will only bring suffering and confusion
2021-07-06 18:32:07	simbaclaws	I will try a power socket
2021-07-06 18:32:18	simbaclaws	need to get me a long cable though :/
2021-07-06 18:32:23	Dagmar	Any decent cell phone charger should do.
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2021-07-06 18:32:38	Dagmar	AMazon has a lot of grey-market samsung 2.1's that work pretty well
2021-07-06 18:32:51	Dagmar	They appear to be actual Samsung chargers
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2021-07-06 18:33:04	simbaclaws	I'll have a look thanks for the help so far Dagmar :)
2021-07-06 18:33:08	Shariff	Hey there
2021-07-06 18:33:16	Dagmar	They test out correctly at least and I can't find any difference so I figure they're mainly overstocks
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2021-07-06 18:33:33	Shariff	In windows I can set max performance for my cpu in the energy profile, is there also such a thing in linux (debian)?
2021-07-06 18:33:36	Guest5848	ok
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2021-07-06 18:34:01	Dagmar	Until the spring of this year I wound up buying about 8-9 various chargers a year because of how quickly they'd grow legs aroudn the stepson and his friends
2021-07-06 18:34:03	Guest5848	stupid question but, where can i download linux-firmware
2021-07-06 18:34:06	simbaclaws	doesn't the cpu freq governor decide how much power to draw from the cpu?
2021-07-06 18:34:12	felco	Shariff I think a similar result would be disable the power governor
2021-07-06 18:34:12	Guest5848	am i just supposed to clone the repository?
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2021-07-06 18:34:32	simbaclaws	lol
2021-07-06 18:34:33	Dagmar	Shariff: Largely you don't have to bother touching it unless there's a genuine probelm
2021-07-06 18:34:34	Shariff	simbaclaws, felco: Thanks! Looking into that
2021-07-06 18:34:45	Guest5848	where are the linux-firmware releases
2021-07-06 18:35:01	Shariff	Dagmar: I do have a genuine problem, and I want to have my system 'survive' the next view days for new parts to come in :)
2021-07-06 18:35:03	Dagmar	It'll do the right thing in 99.9% of cases, meaning if nothing's going on it'll ramp things down appropriately to keep the CPU cooler
2021-07-06 18:35:03	koala_man	Guest5848: there are snapshots on https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/
2021-07-06 18:35:15	Shariff	My CPU reaches 104 degrees C, under load
2021-07-06 18:35:19	simbaclaws	Sharrif try thermald if that's the question ^.^
2021-07-06 18:35:21	Guest5848	can I grab any of them or do i have to get the one that matches my kernel
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2021-07-06 18:35:23	felco	oh man
2021-07-06 18:35:24	Dagmar	Well disabling the power governor won't help
2021-07-06 18:35:27	<--	sublim20 (~sublim20@user/sublim20) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-06 18:35:28	Dagmar	You need to set that _the other_ way around
2021-07-06 18:35:29	felco	maybe fry a bacon then
2021-07-06 18:35:46	felco	gotta give use to that power!
2021-07-06 18:35:49	simbaclaws	thermald might help
2021-07-06 18:35:57	Shariff	Awesome, looking into thermald
2021-07-06 18:35:59	Dagmar	I'm somewhat dubious the softwawre is reporting correctly because at that range I think the CPU should probably have bits melting off it
2021-07-06 18:36:01	<--	Endermen1094 (~androirc@user/endermen1094) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-06 18:36:21	felco	oh man i need gkrellm now
2021-07-06 18:36:24	felco	i need this
2021-07-06 18:36:30	felco	dont try to stop me
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2021-07-06 18:36:37	Shariff	Dagmar: Well it is throtteling severely when it gets close to that temp.. so it seems at least that the CPUs protection is kicking in
2021-07-06 18:36:45	Dagmar	You think?
2021-07-06 18:36:51	Dagmar	Heh
2021-07-06 18:36:52	Shariff	Yeah :)
2021-07-06 18:37:01	simbaclaws	hot hot hot hot
2021-07-06 18:37:03	Dagmar	That's literally boiling water temperatures
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2021-07-06 18:37:37	Dagmar	It really has no choice but to throttle back at those temps
2021-07-06 18:37:40	Shariff	Yeah :) Too bad it ain't winter where I am
2021-07-06 18:38:02	felco	oh man, the satisfaction to open gkrellm and it not fitting in the screen back in the day that meant you were freaking rich!
2021-07-06 18:38:03	Dagmar	You're not like, running it on your outdoor patio in Arizona with outdoor air or something are you?
2021-07-06 18:38:07	simbaclaws	water cooling? airflow cooling?
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2021-07-06 18:38:26	simbaclaws	have you tried putting it in the fridge xD?
2021-07-06 18:38:31	Dagmar	That'
2021-07-06 18:38:41	Dagmar	That's not the worst idea if it's being given intake air at 80F or higher
2021-07-06 18:38:42	Shariff	Nope.. I think my system is too old and the thermal paste is crap by now and having to replace my cooler.. but it takes a few days for those to arrive, unfortunately
2021-07-06 18:38:57	Shariff	It's about 24C here
2021-07-06 18:39:01	Dagmar	Shariff: You just need to buy a small tube of TR-7 or something
2021-07-06 18:39:01	Shariff	In the room
2021-07-06 18:39:03	simbaclaws	same here :/
2021-07-06 18:39:09	Shariff	TR-7?
2021-07-06 18:39:22	Dagmar	Well, any decent thermal paste like "Arctic Silver"
2021-07-06 18:39:27	Shariff	Ah :)
2021-07-06 18:39:35	Dagmar	For most people who aren't working on PCs all the time it's basically a lifetime supply
2021-07-06 18:39:37	Shariff	I was actually looking at arctic silver MX-4
2021-07-06 18:39:48	Shariff	As a backup if the new cooler didnt alrady have a pad
2021-07-06 18:39:52	Dagmar	Basically you want a resealable syringe
2021-07-06 18:39:53	Guest5848	Dagmar: Sounds like a gum brand
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2021-07-06 18:40:07	Dagmar	If it dries out, it's useless.
2021-07-06 18:40:08	simbaclaws	it is sticky though
2021-07-06 18:40:21	Dagmar	Also, remember that IT'S NOT GLUE
2021-07-06 18:40:25	simbaclaws	I got myself some arctic silver on my water cooled aio for my cpu
2021-07-06 18:40:28	simbaclaws	it's working wonders
2021-07-06 18:40:33	Dagmar	You DO NOT slather it on like peanut butter
2021-07-06 18:40:41	Shariff	Really?
2021-07-06 18:40:44	simbaclaws	a little tip would do fine in most cases
2021-07-06 18:40:54	Dagmar	It's better for thermal conduction than air, and only marginally better than mayonnaise
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2021-07-06 18:41:03	Shariff	I always added a nice thicc blob .. much paste.. much cooling!
2021-07-06 18:41:09	Dagmar	So you basically want to smear it on so thinly that you can't see through it
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2021-07-06 18:41:15	felco	I use mayonnaise, it is awesome the smell hmmmm
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2021-07-06 18:41:25	felco	haha joking
2021-07-06 18:41:28	simbaclaws	thicc paste doesn't help that much tbh :/
2021-07-06 18:41:36	simbaclaws	thin paste does
2021-07-06 18:41:38	Dagmar	If you add more than that, when the CPU gets hot, it could liquefy and run out and then you've got lovely _air channels_ where you are now hindered
2021-07-06 18:41:39	Shariff	More paste = more cooling ;)
2021-07-06 18:42:05	simbaclaws	that's exactly what started it in the first place
2021-07-06 18:42:06	Dagmar	..and if youv'e seen what generally kills a whole lot of Dell machines, it's because they're putting a ridiculous amoutn of paste in there, and it does exactly that
2021-07-06 18:42:33	Dagmar	Open 'em up and the paste looks like a map of the Louisiana delta, as seen from space
2021-07-06 18:42:36	Shariff	simbaclaws: I was joking :)
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2021-07-06 18:42:40	simbaclaws	lol sorry
2021-07-06 18:42:46	simbaclaws	maybe you like em thicc >:)
2021-07-06 18:42:49	felco	i had a phenom ii 945, that thing was capable of some serious hotness
2021-07-06 18:43:00	neshpion	Dagmar: the paste goes between the cpu and the socket, right?
2021-07-06 18:43:00	Shariff	simbaclaws: that's a very different converstation :)
2021-07-06 18:43:00	Dagmar	felco: There's a tech site that actually did use mayo, "just to see"
2021-07-06 18:43:08	felco	oh man haha
2021-07-06 18:43:26	Dagmar	nashpion: I want to say something snarky about it being a good lubricant for hte pins as well, but someone's liable to believe that
2021-07-06 18:44:00	Shariff	Dagmar: do you usually remove the paste from a pre-applied cooler? couple of years ago I bought a noctua cpu cooler and already had paste on it.. I didn't remove it.. seems to cool just fine
2021-07-06 18:44:02	Dagmar	If you have the right stuff you can do without
2021-07-06 18:44:04	Shariff	At list so far
2021-07-06 18:44:07	simbaclaws	now I'm terrified people might believe this conspiracy
2021-07-06 18:44:15	Dagmar	...but that isn't something most people have.  I.e., "lapping equipment"
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2021-07-06 18:44:19	neshpion	Dagmar: youtube search for `mayonnaise cpu paste` comes up with Life of Boris, lol
2021-07-06 18:44:28	beltwaybob	wow
2021-07-06 18:44:38	felco	serious though, i use regular thermal paste, i dont use the fancy ones
2021-07-06 18:44:43	felco	never had an issue with it
2021-07-06 18:44:49	Dagmar	Basically, _anything_ is better than air.
2021-07-06 18:44:54	felco	yeah
2021-07-06 18:44:56	Shariff	Thanks for the help, btw.. if I can help the cpu stay cool for the next few days.. I should be able to get it under control again
2021-07-06 18:45:00	simbaclaws	how does chewing gum hold?
2021-07-06 18:45:00	 *	neshpion breathes paste instead
2021-07-06 18:45:01	neshpion	wow this is better
2021-07-06 18:45:10	Dagmar	OKay, _almosT_ anything is better than air
2021-07-06 18:45:11	Shariff	With windows you just say: Cpu on 80% :)
2021-07-06 18:45:12	simbaclaws	thermald works wonders
2021-07-06 18:45:18	Dagmar	Perhaps insulating latex is not a good idea
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2021-07-06 18:46:01	Dagmar	Lapping is also not the best of ideas because vendors don't like it when you try to file a warranty claim and the top of the CPU has had all the writing scrubbed off to the point where it has a mirror finish
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2021-07-06 18:46:14	Dagmar	It's also a real pain int he butt
2021-07-06 18:46:29	 *	felco notice that... while networks come and go, #linux seems to keep the quality everywhere
2021-07-06 18:46:34	simbaclaws	gotta go, thanks for the help dagmar :)
2021-07-06 18:46:35	felco	=] that is nice guys
2021-07-06 18:46:44	Dagmar	No problem, man
2021-07-06 18:47:03	simbaclaws	this channel is more then helpful like always
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2021-07-06 18:48:04	Dagmar	For the record, this is also very very savage, but since my Pi 4 came with two little heatsinks which someone thought would be a great idea to adhere with white foam adhesive pads (insulator much??) mine are affixed with a thin layer of JB Weld
2021-07-06 18:48:37	Dagmar	THey are for SURE never coming off
2021-07-06 18:48:53	neshpion	but how do you do your monthly re-pasting???
2021-07-06 18:48:56	felco	Oh I have seem that
2021-07-06 18:49:03	Dagmar	neshpion: You don't
2021-07-06 18:49:15	Dagmar	There's no repasting JB Weld for any reason
2021-07-06 18:49:26	Dagmar	You either get it right the first time or you throw everything away and start over
2021-07-06 18:49:33	felco	If you try to remove the sync it will tear the chip right
2021-07-06 18:49:37	Dagmar	People have glued cracked engine blocks back together with that stuff
2021-07-06 18:49:53	felco	sink*
2021-07-06 18:50:14	Dagmar	felco: I'm pretty sure the heat sink has a better grip on the chips than the pins do on the board
2021-07-06 18:50:30	Dagmar	It would likely tear the little surface mount IC right off the board
2021-07-06 18:50:31	felco	haha yeah
2021-07-06 18:51:08	<--	arash (~arash@2a01:5ec0:b802:9ad9:cd49:14d5:24a8:a51b) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 18:51:22	felco	i think you maybe heat a knife and try to cut through it? bad idea?
2021-07-06 18:51:47	neshpion	i think you'd have a better chance at separating the heat spreader from the die
2021-07-06 18:51:56	Dagmar	It won't work.  It's a chemo-setting epoxy that's fairly thermally transparent and is full of metal
2021-07-06 18:52:03	Dagmar	So, in a pinch you can use it as solder
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2021-07-06 18:52:15	felco	omg
2021-07-06 18:52:22	Dagmar	I just wouldn't put like, 30A at 208V through some of it
2021-07-06 18:52:30	Dagmar	That might be pushing one's luck
2021-07-06 18:53:18	neshpion	i always make sure to push somebody else's luck instead
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2021-07-06 18:53:48	Dagmar	Well, if something 30A and 208V catches fire, there's going to be plenty of firing to go around
2021-07-06 18:54:07	beltwaybob	smelly
2021-07-06 18:54:26	Dagmar	The smell isn't going to be the problem.  The HVAC will eat that right up.
2021-07-06 18:54:40	Dagmar	The probllm will be explaining how a rack or two lost an entire branch of power
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2021-07-06 18:55:04	<--	lacroix (dlacroix@about/linux/staff/lacroix) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-06 18:55:11	Dagmar	Also explaining the FM-2000 dump or gods forbid the halon dump
2021-07-06 18:55:36	<--	ax562 (~ax562@user/ax562) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-06 18:55:37	Dagmar	(I can promise you there's someone reading that right now whose pulse just went up at the suggestion)
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2021-07-06 18:56:38	neshpion	yummy mouldy pipe water
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2021-07-06 19:18:34	andrei_	Is there any way to build every firmware into the kernel?
2021-07-06 19:18:40	andrei_	like use a wildcard
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2021-07-06 19:19:52	deego``	yes, isn't that pretty much what stock kernels - that come with your distro - do?
2021-07-06 19:19:53	felco	i may be wrong, but I think firmwares get loaded by drivers... so you would need to enable all of them?
2021-07-06 19:19:56	iflema	andrei_: that isyor problem and thats what you want to do?
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2021-07-06 19:20:27	andrei_	deego``: Except I am trying to compile it from scratch
2021-07-06 19:20:42	andrei_	the kernel
2021-07-06 19:20:47	iflema	o\
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2021-07-06 19:21:25	coroner	The kernel compile is easy.\
2021-07-06 19:21:31	coroner	Get the tarball
2021-07-06 19:21:39	iflema	apply the diff
2021-07-06 19:21:39	andrei_	I got a working kernel but i need firmware
2021-07-06 19:21:50	coroner	untar it then cd to the toplevel direcotry then run a make syncconfig or olddefconfig
2021-07-06 19:21:59	iflema	check dmesg
2021-07-06 19:22:13	coroner	Then do make bzImage; make modules; make modules_install; make install
2021-07-06 19:22:23	andrei_	that's not the issue
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2021-07-06 19:22:34	andrei_	I'm having trouble getting linux-firmware to work
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2021-07-06 19:22:36	iflema	what is the issue
2021-07-06 19:22:46	andrei_	to build inside the kernel
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2021-07-06 19:22:54	andrei_	my distro doesn't provide a linux-firmware package
2021-07-06 19:23:06	andrei_	so i downloaded a snapshot and I'm trying to apply it manually
2021-07-06 19:23:07	TJ-	andrei_: put the modules in /lib/firmware/ and ensure udev is available and running to answer kernel requests for firmware files
2021-07-06 19:23:19	TJ-	s/modules/firmware files/
2021-07-06 19:23:32	andrei_	don't i have to specify an option in the kernel to have the firmware activate
2021-07-06 19:23:44	andrei_	or does it "just werk"
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2021-07-06 19:24:20	iflema	for what device? all the things?
2021-07-06 19:24:27	andrei_	Yes
2021-07-06 19:24:27	PaulFertser	andrei_: why do not you want the kernel to load firmware from the filesystem?
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2021-07-06 19:24:41	andrei_	PaulFerster: That's an option?
2021-07-06 19:24:45	TJ-	andrei_: modules declare which firmwares they use and they request the firmware file in response to finding hardware that needs it
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2021-07-06 19:24:50	andrei_	I though everything had to be built into the kernel
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2021-07-06 19:25:04	beltwaybob	nope
2021-07-06 19:25:20	andrei_	ah alright
2021-07-06 19:25:28	TJ-	andrei_: the kernel's firmware loader then sends a uevent that udev answers by giving the kernel the file
2021-07-06 19:25:38	PaulFertser	andrei_: that's how it works for most people most of the time
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2021-07-06 19:25:46	PaulFertser	TJ-: now the kernel has a built-in loader too
2021-07-06 19:26:38	andrei_	thanks
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2021-07-06 19:26:44	PaulFertser	andrei_: yes, it just looks in /lib/firmware , no need to link everything in
2021-07-06 19:26:48	 *	iflema hows ya microcode
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2021-07-06 19:27:25	PaulFertser	andrei_: I checked, you can't use a wildcard for CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE
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2021-07-06 19:30:53	coroner	No quit with that kernel firmware tinkering put your penis pump chinese hardware boards away now please this is a bad idea to load firmware while using the pump itll suck your dick off.
2021-07-06 19:31:08	coroner	oh crap im gonna get banned
2021-07-06 19:31:18	coroner	NO PLEASE OK I GO AWAY NOW OK
2021-07-06 19:31:33	akik	thanks
2021-07-06 19:31:34	beltwaybob	well hey hey hey
2021-07-06 19:32:16	Kyv	the consequences dont seem that bad
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2021-07-06 19:46:11	 *	iflema should hoard some tpms
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2021-07-06 19:49:36	coroner	What is this: [ 3652.964062] gsd-usb-protect[10558]: segfault at 8 ip 00005620d499cb08 sp 00007fffcaf7bea0 error 4 in gsd-usb-protection[5620d499a000+4000]
2021-07-06 19:49:36	coroner	[ 3652.965222] Code: 00 00 e8 0b df ff ff 48 8b 7d b8 85 c0 74 6b 48 85 ff 74 05 e8 19 e1 ff ff 31 ff e8 c2 db ff ff e9 74 ff ff ff 0f 1f 44 00 00 <48> 8b 4f 08 48 8d 15 4d 1f 00 00 be 10 00 00 00 48 8d 3d fd 14 00
2021-07-06 19:49:53	beltwaybob	you can see how creamy the eggs are becoming without cream
2021-07-06 19:50:40	coroner	Yeah your ovaries.
2021-07-06 19:51:14	beltwaybob	wow
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2021-07-06 20:08:22	duds	lmfao
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2021-07-06 20:13:08	onelegend	why is there ##kernel channel to discuss the linux kernel?
2021-07-06 20:13:23	onelegend	doesn't this room include discussion of the linux kernel
2021-07-06 20:13:41	onelegend	after all, linux IS A KERNEL
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2021-07-06 20:14:23	onelegend	additionally the topic includes "Discussion about the various aspects of Linux", which in fact DOES include the linux kernel
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2021-07-06 20:14:39	onelegend	can someone justify to me why there is a separate channel for discussion of the linux kernel
2021-07-06 20:15:17	rascul	you're a kernel
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2021-07-06 20:15:25	Kyv	this is a ubuntu channel
2021-07-06 20:15:46	<--	ionface (~ionface@user/ionface) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 20:15:48	onelegend	pretty sure "linux" is a free and open source kernel licensed under the GPL
2021-07-06 20:16:04	rascul	there's a channel for debian also but you can also discuss debian here
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2021-07-06 20:16:44	onelegend	rascul: but someone justified that by saying that the discussion of the linux kernel is apparently offtopic in this room
2021-07-06 20:16:55	 *	circuitbone spins up a manager daemon
2021-07-06 20:16:58	rascul	who said that?
2021-07-06 20:17:23	<--	treethought (treethou@138.68.49.251) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 20:17:36	akk	onelegend: It's not off topic, but if you try to discuss kernel details you may find you're in a one-sided discussion with yourself.
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2021-07-06 20:18:29	onelegend	makes sense
2021-07-06 20:18:33	Kyv	this is a matter to discuss at the next tenant's meeting
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2021-07-06 20:18:36	Dagmar	It's a matter of scope
2021-07-06 20:18:56	onelegend	just thought it was dumb that someone said it was offtopic when a person asked a question about the kernel
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2021-07-06 20:19:21	onelegend	rascul: you're the kernel
2021-07-06 20:19:24	Kyv	I dont see who said that
2021-07-06 20:19:46	onelegend	if you look back far up in the history, someone did say that
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2021-07-06 20:20:02	donofrio	anyone here use logwatch (and have any tips on how I can get it looking for a phrase in a file and alert if found?)
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2021-07-06 20:20:48	omartheeagle	Libera is run by opressive staff whom wish to further the cancel culture, social justice warrior, and critical race theory that is making them the very fascists they say they hate, they create the censorship they say they guard against.  Come to OUCHnet! Open Uncensored Chat Host Network, a network where your channel is your castle!  Server staff do not interfere with channels, do not censor channels,
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2021-07-06 20:22:12	circuitbone	the waffle is strong in this one
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2021-07-06 20:22:51	Kyv	gonna see what kind of ice cream flavors I can rub together
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2021-07-06 20:26:06	sublim20	oh sweet.  politics!
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2021-07-06 20:26:19	sheep	it's just a troll ignore it
2021-07-06 20:26:31	sublim20	good advice
2021-07-06 20:27:01	ayecee	cancelllled
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2021-07-06 20:28:47	ayecee	though not really. cancelling was rejecting a person's previous works in light of current allegations
2021-07-06 20:28:54	-->	kikijiki (~Thunderbi@user/kikijiki) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 20:29:11	ayecee	not just booting someone for spouting trash
2021-07-06 20:29:48	sublim20	sudo cancel --user ayecee
2021-07-06 20:29:59	ayecee	help! i'm being oppressed!
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2021-07-06 20:32:24	ayecee	donofrio: i don't follow, isn't that pretty much all that logwatch does?
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2021-07-06 20:38:46	donofrio	ayecee, yep
2021-07-06 20:39:13	ayecee	ok like if you asked for tips on how to make ls list directories, i would also be confused
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2021-07-06 20:41:14	coroner	ls -d
2021-07-06 20:41:18	coroner	l.s -ld
2021-07-06 20:41:33	ayecee	directory contents
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2021-07-06 21:01:16	ornxka	man i literally cant even describe how bad android is
2021-07-06 21:01:54	ornxka	i dont know where else to complain about it so ill just write it here but basically phone operating systems are just designed to be absolutely awful in every possiblr way
2021-07-06 21:02:29	<--	tstruk (~tstruk@50.39.160.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 21:02:39	ornxka	the overarching design of phone operating systems is to do as little as possible so that for every single thing you would ever want to do with a phone, you need a specific app for
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2021-07-06 21:03:19	ornxka	they literally designed the entire thing to nickle and dime you for eternity whenever you want to do something with it that you havent already bought an app for
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2021-07-06 21:04:37	ornxka	there is no interoperability between apps or any kind of primitive operators a la pipes, fifos, whatever that would allow "apps" to compose because then they would miss an opportunity to sell you yet another fucking app for $0.99 on the app store
2021-07-06 21:04:37	Dagmar	So stop buying iPhones
2021-07-06 21:04:49	blackgatonegro	My Internet was been wonky all day
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2021-07-06 21:05:00	ornxka	i havent had an iphone since uh
2021-07-06 21:05:04	ornxka	like 2012 i think
2021-07-06 21:05:06	Guest6761	anyone else having this dumb issue with nouveau
2021-07-06 21:05:19	ornxka	the thing i am complaining about is android but im sure it applies to iphones
2021-07-06 21:05:26	blackgatonegro	ornxka your prices are stuck in the 2010s
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2021-07-06 21:05:36	blackgatonegro	Nowadays is more expensive
2021-07-06 21:05:49	Guest6761	I have to deal with this each time i type startx -> https://i.imgur.com/3TNHXy4.mp4
2021-07-06 21:05:51	Dagmar	Oh, then you're just clueless
2021-07-06 21:05:51	ornxka	lol really
2021-07-06 21:06:07	Dagmar	Yes, really.
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2021-07-06 21:06:31	Dagmar	There's no charge per API usage.  You're free to use whatever apps you want at any time.
2021-07-06 21:06:39	ornxka	...
2021-07-06 21:06:41	Dagmar	A great _many_ of which are free.
2021-07-06 21:06:50	blackgatonegro	Eh Google is making their own walled garden. Getting rid of apks cause they are too convenient a format.
2021-07-06 21:07:19	ornxka	Dagmar: i think you should look within yourself and try to understand what exactly is compelling you to attempt to construct this argument
2021-07-06 21:07:35	Dagmar	I think you should qualify what exactly you've been asked to pay for
2021-07-06 21:07:47	Dagmar	I use Android Studio and write things with it
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2021-07-06 21:07:58	Dagmar	No one's stopping me.  No one's requiring me to charge money.
2021-07-06 21:07:59	ornxka	i had to pay to back up my text messages lol
2021-07-06 21:07:59	blackgatonegro	Anyway Audacity became spyware, Android is becoming even more closed, Firefox is dying...
2021-07-06 21:08:06	Dagmar	The worst I've had to deal with is the bloody GDPR nonsense
2021-07-06 21:08:25	ornxka	Dagmar: if that is free then it follows that your time is worthless
2021-07-06 21:08:36	Dagmar	Maybe the problem is that you have horrible taste in apps.  Signal doesn't charge people for anything.
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2021-07-06 21:09:00	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: App bundles are more open than APKs
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2021-07-06 21:09:08	blackgatonegro	Why back up text menssages to start with? We are not in the 2000s, email has been a thing for decades.
2021-07-06 21:09:25	circuitbone	you can jail a program in one line, don't worry or regurgitate the churnalism views
2021-07-06 21:09:26	ornxka	"just write your own software bro" is this the new "just fork it"
2021-07-06 21:09:42	ornxka	blackgatonegro: you are making a funny joke, right?
2021-07-06 21:09:47	blackgatonegro	Dagmar I was talking about the file extension.
2021-07-06 21:09:48	Dagmar	Don't blame Android because there are greedy people putting crapware in the store
2021-07-06 21:09:58	Dagmar	It's not Android that's making them charge money
2021-07-06 21:10:01	ornxka	but android was designed for crapware
2021-07-06 21:10:11	Umbire	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social
2021-07-06 21:10:15	Dagmar	The one-time fee to get to put stuff on the store is chump-change
2021-07-06 21:10:16	ornxka	you realize that google gets money when you buy an app, right?
2021-07-06 21:10:23	Umbire	https://nitter.cattube.org/Kavaeric/status/1412448065378783232
2021-07-06 21:10:24	ornxka	there is an incentive for people to buy as many apps as possible
2021-07-06 21:10:33	Dagmar	Yes, so what does that have to do with anything.
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2021-07-06 21:10:48	Dagmar	They put free apps through the same testing and controls.  No one's paying them for those.
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2021-07-06 21:10:58	ornxka	so they optimized the design of android so that you are driven to buy the most apps
2021-07-06 21:11:05	Dagmar	You're just mouthing off because you have no idea what you're talking about.
2021-07-06 21:11:10	ornxka	you only buy apps when the system does not already do what you want it to do
2021-07-06 21:11:14	Dagmar	Literally _none_
2021-07-06 21:11:18	blackgatonegro	Android was designed to clone sis60 and then Symbiam
2021-07-06 21:11:25	blackgatonegro	And since it was free
2021-07-06 21:11:29	blackgatonegro	Ages ago
2021-07-06 21:11:32	blackgatonegro	They won
2021-07-06 21:11:34	Dagmar	Uhh most of the time there are people who would be kinda unhappy if they knew what I was doing
2021-07-06 21:11:35	Umbire	Yeah, the lion's share of Android stuff I've seen is free so
2021-07-06 21:11:36	ornxka	their interests (you buy apps because the system doesnt do what you want it to do) and your interests (pay least amount of money because the system already does what you need) are in conflict
2021-07-06 21:11:41	blackgatonegro	And Nokia got steamrolled
2021-07-06 21:11:49	ornxka	this is not a difficult argument to understand
2021-07-06 21:12:04	Dagmar	There's no "conflict" because no one's stopping people from writing whatever they want to write
2021-07-06 21:12:16	c705	what does any of this have to do with linux
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2021-07-06 21:12:24	Umbire	Except not knowing how, amongst various other things
2021-07-06 21:12:24	Dagmar	It's an "argument" that offers no *proof* and even less rational thinking.
2021-07-06 21:12:25	ornxka	android is linux
2021-07-06 21:12:29	c705	no it is not
2021-07-06 21:12:31	blackgatonegro	Android is based on Linux
2021-07-06 21:12:31	ornxka	ergo it is on topic
2021-07-06 21:12:43	ornxka	Dagmar: actually there is a thing stopping me from writing whatever i want to write
2021-07-06 21:12:46	ornxka	i cannot be bothered
2021-07-06 21:12:47	Dagmar	Groundless whining can go over to #Android
2021-07-06 21:12:56	ornxka	also my time is not worthless
2021-07-06 21:12:57	Dagmar	I'm pretty sure it's the ignorance.
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2021-07-06 21:13:46	circuitbone	i laughed at the dark pattern argument line.
2021-07-06 21:13:46	Umbire	"just write your own software" is a bit 4Head, but honestly the abundance of free apps (of varying quality) on that storefront does kinda conflict with the profit motive (specifically as it's been stated, mind)
2021-07-06 21:14:15	ornxka	Umbire: most of those are not really
2021-07-06 21:14:16	Dagmar	This isn't about reason and logic and facts.  This is clearly about burrhurtness
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2021-07-06 21:14:22	ornxka	"free" in the sense that there is no profit motive
2021-07-06 21:14:25	bparker	lol
2021-07-06 21:14:30	Umbire	I say that last part because I can't really imagine having to buy apps constantly and regularly
2021-07-06 21:14:31	ornxka	many have ads
2021-07-06 21:14:36	Dagmar	Pardon, butthurtness
2021-07-06 21:14:41	Umbire	Or think of people who actually do
2021-07-06 21:14:49	ornxka	Dagmar: i provided a logical argument though?
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2021-07-06 21:14:55	Dagmar	No, you have not.
2021-07-06 21:14:56	ornxka	which you have not refuted
2021-07-06 21:14:58	bparker	>also my time is not worthless <- but you have time to argue with strangers on the internet
2021-07-06 21:15:05	ornxka	bparker: of course
2021-07-06 21:15:07	Dagmar	You've just been running your mouth with no actual facts.
2021-07-06 21:15:10	ornxka	thats what were all here to do, right?
2021-07-06 21:15:23	Umbire	No.
2021-07-06 21:15:26	Dagmar	"Facts" like "there are ads" do not support your conclusion in any way, shape or form.
2021-07-06 21:15:43	c705	might i add that all of this is still incredibly off topic
2021-07-06 21:15:44	Dagmar	Feel free to hit up Wikipedia to consult the list of fallacies.  I'm sure you'll find your whole kit and kaboodle there.
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2021-07-06 21:16:10	blackgatonegro	But anyway, what's the smallest terminal mp3 player?
2021-07-06 21:16:11	Umbire	c705 is kinda right though, there is a whole Android channel on there.
2021-07-06 21:16:15	bparker	cmus
2021-07-06 21:16:17	ornxka	anyway my point is, android is basically garbage
2021-07-06 21:16:23	bparker	lol
2021-07-06 21:16:24	blackgatonegro	mplayer2?
2021-07-06 21:16:30	c705	that's nice. go complain on #android
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2021-07-06 21:16:37	Dagmar	By this point the primary thing the Google Play store is tooled up to do is keep the lawyers out of everyone's freakin way
2021-07-06 21:16:43	ornxka	i didnt think they would want to hear it honestly
2021-07-06 21:16:43	e36freak	blackgatonegro: do you actually need it to be super small?
2021-07-06 21:16:44	Umbire	YOU HEARD THAT EVERYONE? ANDROID IS BASICALLY GARBAGE!!!
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2021-07-06 21:16:56	Umbire	See, nobody cares.
2021-07-06 21:17:03	blackgatonegro	e36freak kust curious mplayer3 works fine.
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2021-07-06 21:17:34	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: I think probably mpg123 is still around somewhere
2021-07-06 21:17:35	e36freak	i mean there's mpd
2021-07-06 21:17:40	blackgatonegro	Well the logo is basically a garbage can
2021-07-06 21:17:46	<--	Azrael_- (~aweoi@51.154.62.124) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-07-06 21:18:06	e36freak	ooh mpg123 is 156K
2021-07-06 21:18:10	bparker	aplay
2021-07-06 21:18:13	-->	pete443 (~pete@user/pete443) has joined #linux
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2021-07-06 21:18:28	e36freak	76K
2021-07-06 21:18:30	blackgatonegro	e36freak wow
2021-07-06 21:18:31	e36freak	we have a new winner
2021-07-06 21:18:32	<--	pete443_ (~pete@user/pete443) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 21:18:55	blackgatonegro	is like it was made for dos or something
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2021-07-06 21:19:10	blackgatonegro	But.... it is stanalone?
2021-07-06 21:19:29	e36freak	aplay is part of alsa-utils
2021-07-06 21:19:34	blackgatonegro	mplayer2 is standalone, mplayer needs tons of libraries
2021-07-06 21:19:42	e36freak	likely already installed anyway
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2021-07-06 21:20:03	blackgatonegro	Isn't alsa being phased out by pulse?
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2021-07-06 21:20:29	e36freak	mpg123 is pretty standalone
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2021-07-06 21:21:21	e36freak	pulse uses alsa and adds to it, it can't do jack on its own, afaik
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2021-07-06 21:23:04	webstrand	Anyone have any experience with s6?
2021-07-06 21:23:28	c705	what's the question
2021-07-06 21:23:38	webstrand	For some reason when I do `pkill -USR1 s6-svscan` it doesn't run the .s6-svscan/SIGHUP file
2021-07-06 21:23:53	webstrand	er SIGUSR1*
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2021-07-06 21:24:48	webstrand	I've checked, it is executable
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2021-07-06 21:25:39	e36freak	why would the HUP file be run when you send USR1?
2021-07-06 21:25:45	e36freak	unless you specifically configured it to do so?
2021-07-06 21:26:12	webstrand	I mistyped, I expect the .s6-svscan/SIGUSR1 file to execute
2021-07-06 21:26:16	webstrand	but it doesn't
2021-07-06 21:26:33	c705	does it have the execute bit set?
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2021-07-06 21:27:00	e36freak	do other signals work?
2021-07-06 21:27:04	webstrand	yep. Has the execute bit set, and a proper shebang
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2021-07-06 21:27:10	webstrand	no none of the signals work
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2021-07-06 21:27:33	e36freak	are you sure your pkill is finding the right process?
2021-07-06 21:27:54	webstrand	yep, theres only one process, and kill -USR1 has the same issue
2021-07-06 21:29:25	sheep	does the user that s6-svscan is running as have execute permissions on that file and read/execute permissions on the directory?
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2021-07-06 21:31:49	webstrand	sheep: as far as I can tell. It's running as my normal user which can execute .s6-svscan/SIGUSR1 just fine.
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2021-07-06 21:32:04	sheep	what exactly does the script do?
2021-07-06 21:32:41	webstrand	it echos a line to stdout, touches a file, and then immediately exits successfully
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2021-07-06 21:32:55	webstrand	nothing gets printed to stdout and the touched file never gets created
2021-07-06 21:33:11	sheep	did the file exist when s6-svscan started?
2021-07-06 21:33:11	webstrand	(and s6-svscan immediately dies to the signal)
2021-07-06 21:33:19	webstrand	no
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2021-07-06 21:33:38	webstrand	or you mean the script? That did exist before svscan was started
2021-07-06 21:33:52	sheep	\weird
2021-07-06 21:34:05	sheep	is it looking at the right directory?
2021-07-06 21:34:22	webstrand	I'll try strace and see if anything interesting is happening
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2021-07-06 21:37:43	Dagmar	Sounds like you need to take a close look at your signal handler
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2021-07-06 21:41:00	webstrand	sadly svscan receives the signal and then immediately does execve(".s6-svscan/finish", ...)
2021-07-06 21:41:08	webstrand	so maybe the documentation is just plain wrong?
2021-07-06 21:41:37	sheep	which version of s6 do you have?
2021-07-06 21:43:03	webstrand	2.1.3.0
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2021-07-06 21:43:22	sheep	that's a rather old version
2021-07-06 21:43:26	webstrand	I'll try updating
2021-07-06 21:43:36	webstrand	this is why it needs to bundle its manpages :(
2021-07-06 21:43:46	webstrand	I forgot that could be a new feature
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2021-07-06 21:43:57	sheep	newer versions do bundle html docs
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2021-07-06 21:44:57	webstrand	Well, that does at least allow me to confirm that's a newer feature. It's not listed in the bundled html
2021-07-06 21:45:03	webstrand	thanks!
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2021-07-06 21:48:07	webstrand	and that also explains why SIGINT wasn't killing the services
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2021-07-06 22:18:19	loganlee	hello
2021-07-06 22:18:48	jim	 hi
2021-07-06 22:18:54	loganlee	hello :)
2021-07-06 22:18:59	jim	hi
2021-07-06 22:19:41	jim	something specific up?
2021-07-06 22:19:56	loganlee	no... just learning nginx
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2021-07-06 22:20:03	jim	oh ok
2021-07-06 22:20:28	jim	do they have a channel? (there's an alis here too)
2021-07-06 22:21:03	loganlee	one sec
2021-07-06 22:21:19	loganlee	#nginx
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2021-07-06 22:43:46	Time-Warp	anyone notice the patch utility for meld doesn't work with patch -i ahahahaha
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2021-07-06 22:50:36	Dagmar	You're probably needing to use -p1
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2021-07-06 22:53:56	Time-Warp	Dagmar: your a genius! the prefix
2021-07-06 22:54:33	Time-Warp	thanks
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2021-07-06 22:54:50	beltwaybob	np
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2021-07-06 23:03:01	kirk781	Huh, my manjaro installation doesn't boot via default Grub entry anymore. Only the rescue mode initramfs entry works. I tried update-grub and it worked currently but still the default entry doesn't work
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2021-07-06 23:05:10	Kyv	Time-Warp: you could attempt to read the manual next time.
2021-07-06 23:05:24	Time-Warp	Kyv: lol
2021-07-06 23:05:27	Kyv	at least til the 11th line
2021-07-06 23:05:57	[[R]]	kirk781: arch is broken... say it ain't so...
2021-07-06 23:05:59	Time-Warp	think about all the work thats put into making man files
2021-07-06 23:06:28	Kyv	Arch isnt broken
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2021-07-06 23:06:46	webstrand	is there a common utility that'll spawn a process in a non-foreground process group? I need a way to avoid sending SIGINT to the entire foreground process group when ctrl+c gets pressed
2021-07-06 23:06:51	kirk781	It happened when I installed Fedora again and recreated the /boot/efi partition from scratch. But while Ubuntu boots correctly after editing the /etc/fstab file, Manjaro doesn't
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2021-07-06 23:07:17	[[R]]	webstrand: systemd-run?
2021-07-06 23:07:23	sheep	nohup?
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2021-07-06 23:07:57	webstrand	I still need it to respond to ctrl-c, but subprocesses are misbehaving with ctrl-c
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2021-07-06 23:08:11	 *	kirk781 will try again
2021-07-06 23:08:21	[[R]]	how do you send ctrl c ot somethign not in the foreground
2021-07-06 23:08:39	webstrand	child processes are spawned in the same process group
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2021-07-06 23:09:07	webstrand	so they all get SIGINT when the tty gets interrupted
2021-07-06 23:09:21	webstrand	(this is for s6-supervise, which doesn't run ./finish when it receives a SIGINT)
2021-07-06 23:09:50	 *	[[R]] giggles
2021-07-06 23:09:53	[[R]]	s6
2021-07-06 23:09:54	[[R]]	lol
2021-07-06 23:10:44	webstrand	is there another option? basically I need a user-mode process supervisor
2021-07-06 23:10:57	<--	zebrag (~chris@user/zebrag) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 23:11:05	[[R]]	systemd
2021-07-06 23:11:07	[[R]]	lol
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2021-07-06 23:11:37	webstrand	systemd doesn't like to run outside of its fifedom. I can't install .service files
2021-07-06 23:11:41	<--	loganlee (~user@user/loganlee) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-06 23:11:52	[[R]]	systemd --user...
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2021-07-06 23:12:47	webstrand	that requires installing .service files into ~/.config/systemd/user/, doesn't it?
2021-07-06 23:13:04	loganlee	hi
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2021-07-06 23:13:44	[[R]]	well you need to define what to run somewhre...
2021-07-06 23:13:56	[[R]]	s6 just magically knwos what you want?
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2021-07-06 23:15:45	webstrand	I've put an s6 config (scan/services) inside of my project, right now I can set up the project environment by executing `s6-svscan s6/dev`
2021-07-06 23:16:34	<--	candyman (~candyman@user/candyman) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-06 23:16:41	webstrand	systemd wants to manage everything at a system level, which is fine, because it's an init. I just need a process supervisor that'll start and stop a set of processes cleanly
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2021-07-06 23:17:27	[[R]]	systemd --user has nothing to do with the system level
2021-07-06 23:18:04	webstrand	they're spawned by systemd-logind, though, I thought? I may be confused
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2021-07-06 23:20:26	 *	kirk781 wants to send Nokia into a ditch now
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2021-07-06 23:22:04	webstrand	I don't know how you'd actually spawn a new systemd process, manually. /lib/systemd/systemd --user still wants to use ~/.config/systemd/user
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2021-07-06 23:23:02	webstrand	it doesn't appear that systemduserunitdir is configurable at runtime
2021-07-06 23:24:04	Kyv	whats all the hub bub, bub
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2021-07-06 23:48:18	autopsy	FloridaMan, did you stab somebody someone homeless in a trash can yesterday?
2021-07-06 23:48:31	autopsy	Were there numerous flies involved?
2021-07-06 23:48:45	-->	tom1984 (~tom1984@124.156.153.169) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 23:49:20	autopsy	Ok I'm back to talk about Linux.
2021-07-06 23:49:32	autopsy	Speak up all you weirdos.
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2021-07-06 23:51:30	MrAureliusR	I am building bash from source
2021-07-06 23:51:43	MrAureliusR	on a *nix machine, so its almost relevant
2021-07-06 23:52:49	MrAureliusR	I realized about 30 mins ago that a lot of the weirdness I've seen during building other software has been because of a very old version of sed
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2021-07-06 23:53:01	MrAureliusR	so I built a new sed and now am rebuilding a bunch of stuff
2021-07-06 23:53:12	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-07-06 23:53:16	felco	what distro are you?
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2021-07-06 23:53:49	MrAureliusR	what distro am I?
2021-07-06 23:53:50	MrAureliusR	hmmm
2021-07-06 23:53:53	MrAureliusR	good question
2021-07-06 23:54:01	felco	oh didnt read that properly sorry
2021-07-06 23:54:01	MrAureliusR	I feel like I'm maybe a Fedora
2021-07-06 23:54:08	MrAureliusR	:p
2021-07-06 23:54:15	byte4byte	thug life
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2021-07-06 23:54:23	felco	what kernel then haha
2021-07-06 23:54:37	MrAureliusR	it's the evil giant corporate unix
2021-07-06 23:54:47	felco	it is unix?
2021-07-06 23:54:51	Kyv	ok what ninja turtle are you
2021-07-06 23:55:09	MrAureliusR	I only know Leonardo and Michaelanegelo
2021-07-06 23:55:16	felco	Donatelo
2021-07-06 23:55:20	MrAureliusR	I didn't watch it as a kid even though it was popular back then
2021-07-06 23:55:29	MrAureliusR	my friend had a ninja turtles play mat thing
2021-07-06 23:55:37	felco	And Rafael
2021-07-06 23:55:47	Kyv	MrAureliusR: that means you are the rock in your social group but also like to cut loose.
2021-07-06 23:55:49	felco	rafael, not sure haha
2021-07-06 23:55:56	MrAureliusR	lol
2021-07-06 23:56:11	felco	that means I not a machine, you can trust me haha
2021-07-06 23:56:14	byte4byte	where jim at
2021-07-06 23:56:59	autopsy	jim is in Honduras.
2021-07-06 23:57:00	Kyv	felco: that means you are a Scorpio, you crack wise to conceal the soft birdie in your heart.
2021-07-06 23:57:12	Kyv	You also will marry a news reporter.
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2021-07-06 23:57:19	felco	man that is too deep for my english
2021-07-06 23:57:29	autopsy	AWWW SHIT
2021-07-06 23:57:41	-->	structoha1 (~structoha@gateway/tor-sasl/structoha) has joined #linux
2021-07-06 23:57:42	autopsy	My cat just took a dump on my keyboard.
2021-07-06 23:57:52	felco	oh man, that is love right there
2021-07-06 23:58:03	felco	give your cat a hug
2021-07-06 23:58:21	autopsy	I punched it in its asshole.
2021-07-06 23:58:24	Kyv	he made a funny on your keyboard
2021-07-06 23:58:26	Kyv	enjoy it
2021-07-06 23:58:31	MrAureliusR	well bash seems to be building
2021-07-06 23:58:55	<--	austin987 (~null@100.42.98.196) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-06 23:59:00	MrAureliusR	I should build a newer zsh also...
2021-07-06 23:59:08	<--	ElectronApps (~ElectronA@user/electronapps) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-06 23:59:24	byte4byte	jim, we wanna learn python!
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2021-07-06 23:59:46	Kyv	I uninstall zsh about once a month
2021-07-06 23:59:51	felco	MrAureliusR why don't you put that kernel on gentoo and you know compile stuff
2021-07-06 23:59:53	byte4byte	are they really coming out with computers that can handle 2 electron apps being run simultaneously?
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2021-07-07 00:00:12	MrAureliusR	I don't think gentoo supports non-linux kernels
2021-07-07 00:00:15	MrAureliusR	does it?
2021-07-07 00:00:28	felco	it had a freebsd project one time
2021-07-07 00:00:33	MrAureliusR	ah god dammit, build failed
2021-07-07 00:00:37	felco	don't know where it got
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2021-07-07 00:00:51	schillingklaus	there had been gentoo hurd and kfreebsd, once upon a time
2021-07-07 00:00:59	Kyv	if you want to build a shell build a mirbsd korn shell
2021-07-07 00:01:21	schillingklaus	mksh is cool
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2021-07-07 00:03:43	MrAureliusR	maybe bash-5.18 is being a bit optimistic
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2021-07-07 00:03:55	autopsy	Why do falkinites usually find this channel and argue about dumb stuff?
2021-07-07 00:04:22	autopsy	Fedora is cool.
2021-07-07 00:04:31	felco	MrAureliusR just out of curiosity, what compiler are you using?
2021-07-07 00:04:37	autopsy	gcb
2021-07-07 00:04:47	Kyv	the fedora shilling balances it out
2021-07-07 00:04:53	Kyv	along with the systemd shilling
2021-07-07 00:05:15	MrAureliusR	gcc
2021-07-07 00:05:24	felco	version?
2021-07-07 00:05:36	MrAureliusR	4.7.4
2021-07-07 00:05:38	MrAureliusR	xd
2021-07-07 00:05:44	MrAureliusR	maybe a bit old
2021-07-07 00:05:46	felco	wow man, that is old
2021-07-07 00:05:49	schillingklaus	fedora is the principal culprit behind systemd
2021-07-07 00:05:58	MrAureliusR	"culprit"
2021-07-07 00:05:59	MrAureliusR	lmao
2021-07-07 00:06:01	autopsy	No it is Redhat.
2021-07-07 00:06:02	Kyv	hand in hand
2021-07-07 00:06:21	<--	unlink2 (~unlink@p200300ebcf3ae50055b1550759e1ddc5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 00:06:29	autopsy	Redhat is responsible for constructing systemd a wonderful piece of software.
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2021-07-07 00:06:54	Kyv	fedora did the ushering
2021-07-07 00:06:56	felco	I wonder if you can compil gcc9 with gcc4
2021-07-07 00:07:00	felco	that should be possible
2021-07-07 00:07:04	autopsy	You've got no choice but to switch to it or be left behind.
2021-07-07 00:07:04	Hylden	Does anyone have any clue as to if mesa's i965 driver depends on swrast?
2021-07-07 00:07:23	felco	rasterize is a way of life man
2021-07-07 00:07:39	sheep	does anyone remember what the maintained fork of luajit is that isn't moonjit?
2021-07-07 00:07:43	autopsy	Rasta Ganja
2021-07-07 00:07:44	Hylden	felco: so that's a yes?
2021-07-07 00:07:54	felco	Hylden no haha sorry
2021-07-07 00:08:33	MrAureliusR	felco: was thinking of building gcc5 first
2021-07-07 00:08:56	felco	first? like, then after build 6?
2021-07-07 00:09:02	felco	damn you are into it
2021-07-07 00:09:06	MrAureliusR	or jump a couple ahead
2021-07-07 00:09:11	MrAureliusR	until I can build what I need
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2021-07-07 00:09:34	schillingklaus	better staying behind then succumbing to perversity
2021-07-07 00:09:44	felco	i hope you are full of cores
2021-07-07 00:09:50	felco	like -j128
2021-07-07 00:09:51	felco	haha
2021-07-07 00:09:56	MrAureliusR	single core
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2021-07-07 00:10:05	MrAureliusR	768MB of RAM
2021-07-07 00:10:06	MrAureliusR	xd
2021-07-07 00:10:11	felco	jesus, thats a warrior right there people
2021-07-07 00:10:24	MrAureliusR	UltraSPARC IIe
2021-07-07 00:10:25	mybalzitch	hope you got lots of swap
2021-07-07 00:10:44	felco	thats u320?
2021-07-07 00:11:44	felco	ultrascsi320
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2021-07-07 00:11:56	mybalzitch	ultra suzie
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2021-07-07 00:12:03	byte4byte	DOES ANYONE HAVE JIM'S ADDRESS?
2021-07-07 00:12:15	MrAureliusR	huh?
2021-07-07 00:12:20	Kyv	Its on his business card
2021-07-07 00:12:32	MrAureliusR	it's a SunFire V100, if I remember correctly
2021-07-07 00:12:34	MrAureliusR	it's a remote system
2021-07-07 00:12:35	<--	almarwazi (~almarwazi@2405:201:5504:912b:9608:53ff:fe69:bf5b) has quit (Quit: almarwazi)
2021-07-07 00:12:42	mybalzitch	jim's at home. 127.0.0.1 is his address
2021-07-07 00:13:08	-->	almarwazi (~almarwazi@2405:201:5504:912b:9608:53ff:fe69:bf5b) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 00:15:19	loganlee	localhost/0
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2021-07-07 00:16:21	MrAureliusR	::1
2021-07-07 00:16:51	mybalzitch	::1 is the *only* thing made easier by ipv6, lol
2021-07-07 00:17:08	MrAureliusR	well
2021-07-07 00:17:12	MrAureliusR	that and having enough IPs
2021-07-07 00:17:17	byte4byte	I ANNA SPANK YA
2021-07-07 00:17:18	Kyv	ip isnt meant to be easy
2021-07-07 00:17:22	Kyv	its meant to save our LIVES
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2021-07-07 00:17:37	Kyv	oh I forgot the v6
2021-07-07 00:17:38	MrAureliusR	it's nice when I rent a VPS and I get a /24 to myself
2021-07-07 00:17:39	MrAureliusR	xd
2021-07-07 00:17:41	Kyv	it is difficult
2021-07-07 00:17:55	MrAureliusR	sorry, counting from the wrong end
2021-07-07 00:17:57	MrAureliusR	a /48
2021-07-07 00:18:17	MrAureliusR	wait, still counting wrong I think
2021-07-07 00:18:30	MrAureliusR	anyway, they gave me enough IP addresses to give one to every human a few times over
2021-07-07 00:18:33	MrAureliusR	and I'm a single customer
2021-07-07 00:18:33	Kyv	count from both ends
2021-07-07 00:18:44	mybalzitch	yeah /48 or so
2021-07-07 00:18:50	<--	tom1984 (~tom1984@124.156.153.169) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 00:18:54	MrAureliusR	it's absurdly awesome
2021-07-07 00:18:59	mybalzitch	my isp gives out /48's per piece of CPE equipment
2021-07-07 00:19:03	MrAureliusR	YOU get an IP! and YOU get an IP!
2021-07-07 00:19:05	-->	tom1984 (~tom1984@2408:8406:1820:16aa:23c5:ef9d:c0a1:4590) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 00:19:07	mybalzitch	I think its part of the ipv6 spec
2021-07-07 00:19:13	Kyv	look under your seats
2021-07-07 00:19:32	MrAureliusR	omg! 2607:5b:24::5! what I always wanted!
2021-07-07 00:19:35	MrAureliusR	thanks Oprah
2021-07-07 00:19:36	felco	my isp gives /64
2021-07-07 00:19:55	felco	you can't delegate, just ask for more
2021-07-07 00:20:15	Kyv	that would be the perfect place to commit a murder
2021-07-07 00:20:33	Kyv	under one of the seats at a taping of oprah
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2021-07-07 00:21:45	autopsy	I got a dead body in my bed some girl smoked fentanyl and died here.
2021-07-07 00:21:57	MrAureliusR	>.>
2021-07-07 00:22:03	autopsy	YEAH
2021-07-07 00:22:13	MrAureliusR	what the hell are you talking about
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2021-07-07 00:22:19	MrAureliusR	there is a dead body in your bed right now?
2021-07-07 00:22:26	autopsy	Yep.
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2021-07-07 00:22:33	felco	that is a troll man
2021-07-07 00:22:33	MrAureliusR	alrighty then
2021-07-07 00:22:35	Kyv	that is awesome
2021-07-07 00:22:51	autopsy	I was playing witgh her toes.
2021-07-07 00:22:52	felco	MrAureliusR you are new to this right
2021-07-07 00:23:04	MrAureliusR	I've been on the internet since 1999
2021-07-07 00:23:05	MrAureliusR	so no
2021-07-07 00:23:07	MrAureliusR	(:
2021-07-07 00:23:13	felco	i mean irc
2021-07-07 00:23:17	Kyv	that is the whole plot of Clean & Sober
2021-07-07 00:23:23	MrAureliusR	I've been on IRC since 2004ish
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2021-07-07 00:23:32	autopsy	Yeah a dead ass girl.
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2021-07-07 00:23:36	felco	oh man... there is always that
2021-07-07 00:23:42	Kyv	girl dies in Michael Keaton's bed and he checks himself into rehab with privacy laws so the cops cant get him
2021-07-07 00:23:50	Kyv	and 'pretends' to be a drunk
2021-07-07 00:23:56	Kyv	but he actually is a drunk so he finds himself in there
2021-07-07 00:24:01	Kyv	its a tear-jerker
2021-07-07 00:24:22	MrAureliusR	anyway, going to continue building software while watching Micro Men
2021-07-07 00:24:25	nvz	I've been on the internet longer than I can clearly remember
2021-07-07 00:24:35	nvz	back when yahoo and aol chat were a thing
2021-07-07 00:24:46	autopsy	America Online on CD
2021-07-07 00:24:50	felco	that is the nineties
2021-07-07 00:24:53	Kyv	here it goes
2021-07-07 00:25:16	nvz	yeah I know what it was.. I just don't really remember it
2021-07-07 00:25:25	autopsy	I do.
2021-07-07 00:25:34	Kyv	no one is coercing the memories out
2021-07-07 00:25:43	autopsy	Nobody cares though.
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2021-07-07 00:26:25	Kyv	yeah but that doesnt matter
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2021-07-07 00:27:03	autopsy	How many times I gotta say I installed Slackware Linux kernel 1.2.1 from 44 floppies and get someone talking ABOUT IT?
2021-07-07 00:27:31	autopsy	58 times.
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2021-07-07 00:27:50	Kyv	there is some significance there to the number
2021-07-07 00:28:01	schillingklaus	some people do not even remember floppies
2021-07-07 00:28:04	mybalzitch	yeah, but your winmodem won't work
2021-07-07 00:28:16	autopsy	HSP OR DSP WTF?
2021-07-07 00:28:18	mybalzitch	my BLT drive is still on the fritz
2021-07-07 00:28:33	felco	that cant be possible true man, 44 disks for the kernel, wtf 20mb 40mb kernel?
2021-07-07 00:28:34	autopsy	My whopper is stilll $4.99
2021-07-07 00:28:51	mybalzitch	felco: it was before they gzip'd the initrd
2021-07-07 00:28:55	autopsy	44 floppies for the whole SLackware distribution dude.
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2021-07-07 00:29:13	schillingklaus	of course the whole slackware distro was on that many floppies, not just the kernel
2021-07-07 00:29:15	autopsy	It had a kernel 1.2.1
2021-07-07 00:29:16	felco	oh i see
2021-07-07 00:29:31	schillingklaus	there were root floppies and boot floppies
2021-07-07 00:29:42	autopsy	bare.i
2021-07-07 00:29:52	schillingklaus	and of course the rest, organized in several sets
2021-07-07 00:29:59	autopsy	Yep.
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2021-07-07 00:30:15	autopsy	bare.i was the uncompressed raw kernel boot floppy.
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2021-07-07 00:30:40	felco	when i got to linux already had a cdrom so.. dont know much about, but I remember LILO
2021-07-07 00:30:53	autopsy	LiLo was cool.
2021-07-07 00:31:08	felco	how much times you got to LI and crashed?
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2021-07-07 00:31:23	autopsy	Like 2 then I learned what I was doing.
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2021-07-07 00:31:30	schillingklaus	lilo is still available on slackware
2021-07-07 00:31:31	felco	oh sorry
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2021-07-07 00:32:10	felco	that is lie, you crashed like a lot haha
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2021-07-07 00:32:13	felco	haha
2021-07-07 00:32:17	autopsy	Hehe.
2021-07-07 00:32:28	autopsy	I don't know I was a quick one on the keyabord.
2021-07-07 00:32:44	mybalzitch	silo or bust
2021-07-07 00:33:31	autopsy	I remember trying to get Grub to load from a DVD or CDROM and they had bugs so it wouldn't do it easily to boot ISO files or something and they made Grub2.
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2021-07-07 00:34:39	autopsy	Flies and insects evolved from the intestines of dinosaurs I think.
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2021-07-07 00:35:12	autopsy	They are too simple to have come from anything excvept digestive bacteria.
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2021-07-07 00:35:53	autopsy	I know I'm right.
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2021-07-07 00:36:01	felco	my mind was on grub one, then you just f* it man wtf
2021-07-07 00:36:40	autopsy	Ok I like fu**ing your head up.
2021-07-07 00:36:57	autopsy	I like it its fun fun fun zoom zoom zoom
2021-07-07 00:37:02	felco	it just a way of saying man, you cant fuck up my head
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2021-07-07 00:37:40	jim	felco, please watch your language while you're here
2021-07-07 00:37:48	autopsy	You just contradicted yourself but lets get back to copper based bug juice blood and now hemoglobin the human iron based blood thing.
2021-07-07 00:37:54	felco	oh man, sorry
2021-07-07 00:37:59	autopsy	Lets talk about what and insect really is though.
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2021-07-07 00:38:12	Kyv	no
2021-07-07 00:38:22	felco	i dont know man, i can argue to the ops you are offtopic
2021-07-07 00:38:26	felco	haha
2021-07-07 00:38:32	autopsy	Go ahead.
2021-07-07 00:38:42	autopsy	I can disconnect.
2021-07-07 00:38:43	felco	im good keep going
2021-07-07 00:38:48	autopsy	Ok well...
2021-07-07 00:38:51	jim	I already see that
2021-07-07 00:39:05	jim	but not just him :P
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2021-07-07 00:40:00	autopsy	Hit em with a fragmentation ban grenade jim.
2021-07-07 00:40:11	 *	autopsy creeps away
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2021-07-07 00:40:24	jim	the trouble with those is they leak bans :P
2021-07-07 00:40:35	felco	yeah man
2021-07-07 00:40:42	felco	those hackers must pay one
2021-07-07 00:40:46	felco	i pray to god
2021-07-07 00:40:49	felco	haha
2021-07-07 00:41:00	felco	s/one/one day
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2021-07-07 00:44:51	autopsy	I casnnot get Seamonkey to open ANY web page it states The level of security the website tried to represent represents san inadequate l;eve;le of security and it says your connection is not secure, what package libraries do I need, what setting plaease help.
2021-07-07 00:45:08	autopsy	I like Seamonkey its faster than Chrome faster than Firefox.
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2021-07-07 00:46:10	sheep	it sounds like it's missing ssl certificates. these should come with seamonkey
2021-07-07 00:46:14	Kyv	something something tls 1.1 or ssl?
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2021-07-07 00:46:29	sheep	specifically it sounds like it's missing the root CA certificate bundle
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2021-07-07 00:46:39	autopsy	Ok how do I get those?
2021-07-07 00:46:46	autopsy	Howe do I 9iijnstall SSL?
2021-07-07 00:46:56	autopsy	Yeah sounds about right.
2021-07-07 00:47:00	sheep	which distro are you using?
2021-07-07 00:47:06	autopsy	Fedora 34
2021-07-07 00:47:14	sheep	how did you install seamonkey?
2021-07-07 00:47:23	autopsy	Using dnf install seamonkey
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2021-07-07 00:48:05	sheep	reinstall the package "ca-certificates"
2021-07-07 00:48:10	autopsy	Ok.
2021-07-07 00:48:20	Kyv	well you do not want to use anything tls 1.1 or lower
2021-07-07 00:48:34	Kyv	that is not good for business
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2021-07-07 00:52:08	autopsy	Ok well sheep it does open to this asddress: https://www.seamonkey-project.org/community#blogs   but it wont open to google.com
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2021-07-07 00:57:09	pnbeast	Come on, Andrew, I'm sure you have another nick change or two in you.
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2021-07-07 00:59:19	autopsy	sheep I found about:config network.enable.spdy.http2 and set it to false so it shows up websites now its kinda fixed but not really.
2021-07-07 00:59:52	autopsy	ca-certificates I'll rememeber that name.
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2021-07-07 01:02:38	felco	autopsy I may know you
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2021-07-07 01:03:14	felco	Ohhhh haha
2021-07-07 01:03:16	autopsy	felco, oh yeah why do your say that?
2021-07-07 01:03:26	felco	No, its ok
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2021-07-07 01:04:13	autopsy	I like lollipos and bubble gum and lattes and menthol cigarettes.
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2021-07-07 01:04:26	felco	Yeah, cool man
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2021-07-07 01:04:39	autopsy	Just foolin I eat steak with sauce I make from scratch and smoke Bugler.
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2021-07-07 01:04:50	felco	haha
2021-07-07 01:04:54	autopsy	I'm a soldier.
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2021-07-07 01:05:03	felco	oh that is nice man
2021-07-07 01:05:24	felco	i not fooling you man
2021-07-07 01:05:29	autopsy	Yeah its really good.
2021-07-07 01:05:49	autopsy	Please don't play with my heart.
2021-07-07 01:05:55	felco	haha
2021-07-07 01:06:01	autopsy	Yeah.
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2021-07-07 01:06:23	felco	why man, i not playing
2021-07-07 01:06:48	autopsy	You are loved thats why.
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2021-07-07 01:07:28	felco	you will find someone man
2021-07-07 01:07:43	autopsy	I hope I do.
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2021-07-07 01:08:00	felco	yeah sure man, just keep your heart open you know
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2021-07-07 01:08:35	autopsy	I keep everything open here, even my books.
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2021-07-07 01:09:21	autopsy	My eyes.
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2021-07-07 01:09:44	autopsy	My refrigerator.
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2021-07-07 01:13:05	Kyv	bloody marvelous
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2021-07-07 01:23:36	autopsy	Kyv what?
2021-07-07 01:24:41	Kyv	what?
2021-07-07 01:26:04	Sauvin	Bloody mahvelous flied lice.
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2021-07-07 01:26:53	Kyv	hes got it
2021-07-07 01:27:00	Kyv	why dont you?
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2021-07-07 01:27:17	Kyv	and its fried rice you plick
2021-07-07 01:27:18	Guest98	hi
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2021-07-07 01:28:26	Kyv	hello neighbor
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2021-07-07 01:31:32	Guest98	hi
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2021-07-07 01:31:51	Guest98	Lubuntu 20.04 LTS
2021-07-07 01:31:54	Guest98	UFW Firewall
2021-07-07 01:31:56	Guest98	Wireguard VPN
2021-07-07 01:31:59	Guest98	Daily OS updates
2021-07-07 01:32:08	Guest98	FireFox, Ublock origin, Decenraleyes addon
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2021-07-07 01:32:12	Guest98	WebGL and WebRTC disabled
2021-07-07 01:32:15	Guest98	Tor Browser
2021-07-07 01:32:16	Guest98	Review
2021-07-07 01:32:26	Guest98	on a Libreboot
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2021-07-07 01:33:00	Kyv	you forgot the onions
2021-07-07 01:33:06	Kyv	wait nevermind theyre in there
2021-07-07 01:33:36	iLinux-OS-User	:')
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2021-07-07 01:46:59	vitorgonc	hey guys, it's my first time compiling the kernel, i followed a blog post and when i run make it displays this message: [Kbuild:24: include/generated/timeconst.h] Error 132
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2021-07-07 01:54:56	mlu	vitorgonc: congratuations -- now do it a few hundred more times with slightly different tweaks :)
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2021-07-07 01:55:45	mlu	vitorgonc: actually: scroll up a bit and see additional details, although IIRC, a high-numbered error code like this likely means out-of-RAM
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2021-07-07 02:01:00	vitorgonc	i'm in a tty and it got away from the screen :(
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2021-07-07 02:02:49	Sauvin	vitorgonc, do you know what redirection is? :)
2021-07-07 02:03:12	vitorgonc	actually no
2021-07-07 02:03:43	vitorgonc	i've been in the tty only once and it was to install arch
2021-07-07 02:04:31	vitorgonc	oh ive got it
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2021-07-07 02:04:50	vitorgonc	it has nothing
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2021-07-07 02:05:20	vitorgonc	only CC    kernel/bounds.s
2021-07-07 02:05:25	MrAureliusR	vitorgonc: what are the specs of your machine?
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2021-07-07 02:06:00	vitorgonc	ivy bridge pentium, 4gb ram
2021-07-07 02:06:03	MrAureliusR	can you copy and paste the build log into a paste service like http://bpa.st/
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2021-07-07 02:08:07	MrAureliusR	also, what guide are you following?
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2021-07-07 02:08:17	MrAureliusR	and what distro are you using?
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2021-07-07 02:09:15	vitorgonc	i'm installing gentoo and following the handbook alongside of mental outlaw's kernel config video
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2021-07-07 02:09:56	schillingklaus	there's #gentoo for more in-depth support
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2021-07-07 02:11:22	vitorgonc	i'm compiling the vanilla kernel
2021-07-07 02:11:52	MrAureliusR	have you used linux at all before?
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2021-07-07 02:13:19	vitorgonc	yes, i've said that i've installed arch
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2021-07-07 02:14:32	schillingklaus	i also have an ivy bridge with 4gb, it is eight years old
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2021-07-07 02:28:12	Kyv	main laptop has a Legacy Core i3 and 4GB
2021-07-07 02:28:17	Kyv	of course it runs like a champ
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2021-07-07 02:30:55	budlight	hi
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2021-07-07 02:34:26	Kyv	hey
2021-07-07 02:35:17	trbp	Kyv: do you use 32bit or 64bit on your 4gb laptop?
2021-07-07 02:35:33	Kyv	64bit
2021-07-07 02:36:23	trbp	because it is 64? ;) or you need it for your real long database/numbercrunching/calculations?
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2021-07-07 02:36:48	Kyv	it chose me
2021-07-07 02:37:40	trbp	Kyv: maybe you try 32bit it is well most times faster and less memory intensive and with todays ram use 4gb could be fastly used up...
2021-07-07 02:38:10	schillingklaus	I hardly ever get to even 1GB
2021-07-07 02:38:23	Kyv	"todays ram use" is a result of using bloated crap software
2021-07-07 02:38:28	Kyv	which I dont run
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2021-07-07 02:38:58	Kyv	it doesnt max out on anything this way
2021-07-07 02:39:41	Kyv	it could have 2GB
2021-07-07 02:39:44	trbp	it was just a suggestion
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2021-07-07 02:40:08	trbp	and of course using a rasberry pi with 128mb is best of all :)
2021-07-07 02:40:22	Kyv	I see that it was
2021-07-07 02:40:27	Kyv	but I assure you it is ok
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2021-07-07 02:41:58	schillingklaus	gnome3 is the worst of all ram wasters
2021-07-07 02:42:25	-->	__jmcantrell__ (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 02:42:27	Sauvin	It's a pig, that's a fact. KDE ain't much better, I think.
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2021-07-07 02:43:11	trbp	well, any recent browser in gui with more than 1 tab? ;)
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2021-07-07 02:43:26	jim	why's a 64 bit application allocate any more ram? (general answer: because it can)
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2021-07-07 02:44:54	Kyv	trbp: modern web browsers of course are infamously bloated, as the web itself
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2021-07-07 02:45:30	trbp	yes i would also love a gopher revival :)
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2021-07-07 02:45:49	Kyv	that will put me up to about 600 megs
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2021-07-07 02:47:17	Kyv	I have just gotten into habit of not opening any old thing in the same browser. A lot of the time I will use RSS feeds, or elinks/w3m
2021-07-07 02:47:17	-->	ElectronApps (~ElectronA@user/electronapps) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 02:47:21	Kyv	or just mpv for videos
2021-07-07 02:48:16	-->	darutoko (~darutoko@176.209.209.16) has joined #linux
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2021-07-07 02:49:01	omero	#for n in /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra*; do echo "$n="`cat $n`; done
2021-07-07 02:49:13	omero	oops
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2021-07-07 02:50:33	rindolf	Kyv: https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/site_loads_quickly.xhtml
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2021-07-07 02:53:07	Kyv	good on you for that design, rindolf.
2021-07-07 02:53:21	Kyv	maybe you ought to submit the site to wiby.me search if you havent already.
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2021-07-07 02:55:11	rindolf	Kyv: what is wiby.me about?
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2021-07-07 02:56:08	Kyv	rindolf: a search engine mainly for the kind of personal sites that existed before the web became garbage.
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2021-07-07 02:57:23	Kyv	I do not know who runs it or what they are about, but it is nice enough to use.
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2021-07-07 02:58:34	rindolf	Kyv: ah. :S
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2021-07-07 03:02:25	schillingklaus	rindolf is the only genuine reindeer. rudolf is an imposter, a roe deer with fur and antler extensions
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2021-07-07 03:04:38	Kyv	yeah, rudolf glows
2021-07-07 03:05:21	rindolf	schillingklaus: https://www.shlomifish.org/me/rindolf/#rindolf_the_evil_reindeer
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2021-07-07 03:15:58	sumthing1980	hello
2021-07-07 03:16:41	iLinux-OS-User	Hi!
2021-07-07 03:16:52	sumthing1980	wassup
2021-07-07 03:17:08	iLinux-OS-User	Just chillin! You?!
2021-07-07 03:18:19	sumthing1980	trying to write a crawler
2021-07-07 03:18:27	sumthing1980	it works but my own site gives bad headers
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2021-07-07 03:19:30	sumthing1980	400 bad request
2021-07-07 03:20:12	acresearch	people i am trying to install dssp    apt install dssp=3.0   but there does not seem to be a version 3.0   even through i have it installed in another system,,, how can i resolve this? i need version 3.0 for my scripts to work
2021-07-07 03:20:50	acresearch	is there a way to list the versions?   maybe the version format is wrong?   3.0.0  or something?
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2021-07-07 03:23:46	bradd	acresearch: are you using apt? you can apt search dssp and it'll tell you the version
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2021-07-07 03:25:38	jim	acresearch, one way to get a particular version, is to instll all the dev parts of the libs it depends on, and build the one you want... if you do this, you're circumventing package management, and putting yourself as the maintainer of this particular version (a decision you can reverse)
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2021-07-07 03:56:15	usr123	Why is it that speedtest on mac shows speeds of about 40 Mbps whereas on linux (mint 20.04) it shows only speeds of about 4-5 Mbps. Here is the output for lshw command: https://dpaste.org/REbm
2021-07-07 03:57:18	usr123	I'm using an HP. Speeds were mostly fine on lenovo laptops I've had using ubuntu. It is because of the network card? I have windows on this computer and internet on that is usable.
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2021-07-07 03:57:42	TJ-	usr123: possibly a Broadcom chipset and no support for the driver from Broadcom?
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2021-07-07 03:58:06	TJ-	usr123: is it using Wifi, or wired Ethernet? presumably WiFi
2021-07-07 03:58:10	 *	omero ping PaulFertser 
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2021-07-07 03:59:04	bradd	usr123: ethtool your_nic_alias shows 'Speed: 1000Mb/s'?
2021-07-07 03:59:04	TJ-	acresearch: "apt-cache policy dssp will report available versions and where they're sourced from
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2021-07-07 03:59:53	PaulFertser	omero: pong
2021-07-07 04:00:00	usr123	TJ: wifi. I've tried using ethernet in the past and the speeds aren't great with that either.
2021-07-07 04:00:03	usr123	Let me try again.
2021-07-07 04:00:31	usr123	How do I find out what chipset do I have for my network card?
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2021-07-07 04:00:57	omero	lol... ok, compiled ndisc6 userland tools... but Im banging head on table now... Raw IPv6 socket: Operation not permitted (ndisc6 -1 fe80::1/10 ppp0)
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2021-07-07 04:02:07	PaulFertser	omero: I'm suggesting to run rdisc6 ppp0
2021-07-07 04:02:10	omero	and both from unpriviledged user or root... I dont find any example
2021-07-07 04:02:19	TJ-	usr123: to list PCI wifi devices do "lspci -nnk -d ::280"
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2021-07-07 04:02:49	omero	PaulFertser: same Raw IPv6 socket: Operation not permitted
2021-07-07 04:02:55	TJ-	usr123: to list Ethernet devices "lspci -nnk -d ::200"
2021-07-07 04:03:17	PaulFertser	omero: is that after you get successful link-local configuration in your log?
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2021-07-07 04:03:28	omero	yep... the ppp0 is up
2021-07-07 04:03:29	PaulFertser	omero: last time you showed two different logs, one with and one without.
2021-07-07 04:03:46	PaulFertser	omero: please check with "ip a" if ppp0 has IPv6LL address.
2021-07-07 04:03:54	<--	HawkinsTheWizard (~HawkinsTh@102.130.113.94) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 04:04:18	omero	inet6 fe80::1/10 scope link
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2021-07-07 04:04:40	omero	that should be it, right?
2021-07-07 04:04:44	PaulFertser	omero: hm, yes.
2021-07-07 04:05:10	PaulFertser	omero: is that a custom compiled kernel?
2021-07-07 04:05:27	omero	um yes..
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2021-07-07 04:06:23	omero	but its the same I was using when I could get a valid global ipv6 address (with nothing special being involved, SLAAC possibly)
2021-07-07 04:06:24	PaulFertser	omero: why is that your system is so custom?
2021-07-07 04:07:45	omero	ahm... it runs :D
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2021-07-07 04:07:53	omero	mostly...
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2021-07-07 04:08:37	omero	I really dont get the reason for "Raw IPv6 socket: Operation not permitted"
2021-07-07 04:08:42	<--	hendursa1 (~weechat@user/hendursaga) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-07 04:08:43	PaulFertser	omero: I mean, is that some unusual hardware? Or is that LFS distro or some such?
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2021-07-07 04:09:34	omero	its a LFS-like one.. I take bits here and there that suits my preferences
2021-07-07 04:09:34	PaulFertser	omero: is rdisc6 owned by root and has 755 permissions?
2021-07-07 04:09:41	omero	uhm
2021-07-07 04:10:20	omero	ahhh
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2021-07-07 04:10:45	omero	lol... ok, nope :D I installed as regular user... and its suid'ed...
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2021-07-07 04:10:55	omero	sigh
2021-07-07 04:10:57	PaulFertser	omero: then try running without root
2021-07-07 04:11:00	omero	what a lamer
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2021-07-07 04:11:19	PaulFertser	omero: ok, so does it print anything useful now?
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2021-07-07 04:11:41	omero	well I tried running as regular user... he might want to be owned by root as it should drop priviledges
2021-07-07 04:12:53	PaulFertser	omero: but it should be owned by root for that to work.
2021-07-07 04:12:55	PaulFertser	Yes
2021-07-07 04:13:02	omero	wow... ok. chown -R root: did change things
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2021-07-07 04:13:48	omero	much better... but fe80::1 gets timeout... let me try fe02::1
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2021-07-07 04:14:27	jim	omero, be careful with that... recursive chown can cause a lot of damage
2021-07-07 04:14:30	omero	same
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2021-07-07 04:15:23	omero	jim, it was done on the right place and the right bits ;)
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2021-07-07 04:15:49	omero	10:12:07.537643 PPPoE  [ses 0x288] IP6 fe80::1 > ff02::1:ff00:1: ICMP6, neighbor solicitation, who has fe02::1, length 32
2021-07-07 04:16:13	omero	timeout/No response
2021-07-07 04:16:16	jim	good... so you had the skill to make sure there wasn't a space between / and * (or such like)
2021-07-07 04:16:25	PaulFertser	omero: "rdisc6 ppp0", without arguments
2021-07-07 04:16:27	omero	ahm... lol
2021-07-07 04:16:46	omero	#ndisc6 ppp0
2021-07-07 04:16:46	omero	Try "ndisc6 -h" for more information.
2021-07-07 04:17:18	omero	seems he wants both address and interface
2021-07-07 04:17:31	omero	ah wait
2021-07-07 04:17:40	omero	rdisc6... not ndisc6
2021-07-07 04:17:48	omero	got something
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2021-07-07 04:18:20	omero	https://termbin.com/wgkp
2021-07-07 04:18:49	PaulFertser	omero: awesome
2021-07-07 04:19:03	PaulFertser	omero: SLAAC should work
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2021-07-07 04:19:21	omero	and it doesnt... :/
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2021-07-07 04:20:03	omero	I have a tcpdump running: clear && tcpdump -n -s 0 -U -i eth0 pppoes or pppoed -w - |tee pppoed+pppoes.`dtstamp`.pcap | tcpdump -n -r -
2021-07-07 04:20:37	omero	lets see what it got... it should have captured also the rdisc6 stuff
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2021-07-07 04:21:47	usr123	I stand corrected, wired ethernet gives me better speeds than windows and mac on linux
2021-07-07 04:22:02	PaulFertser	omero: if the kernel has slaac enabled then rdisc6 invocation would trigger it even if it failed before.
2021-07-07 04:22:11	usr123	So do I now setup a wired connection or I can fix this for wireless somehow?
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2021-07-07 04:23:13	jim	usr123, is the problem that wireless is slow?
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2021-07-07 04:23:31	usr123	jim: Yes. wireless on linux is slow, whereas it works fine on windows and mac
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2021-07-07 04:24:28	jim	usr123, well a good thing to try to find out, is why it's slower on linux
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2021-07-07 04:24:54	jim	how much slower, by the way?
2021-07-07 04:25:06	usr123	jim: Makes sense. 1/10th of wired connection.
2021-07-07 04:25:40	jim	ok, also, what fraction of wireless on the other OSes?
2021-07-07 04:25:43	usr123	And about 1/8th of mac and windows.
2021-07-07 04:25:52	jim	oh ok
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2021-07-07 04:26:10	omero	PaulFertser: egrep -i slaac doesnt tell me anything... whats the config name for that?
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2021-07-07 04:26:20	usr123	Basically I'd get 45 Mbps on mac, and on mint I'm getting about 5 Mbps
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2021-07-07 04:27:10	PaulFertser	omero: accept_ra
2021-07-07 04:27:16	jim	hmm that's just under a 10th
2021-07-07 04:27:41	TJ-	usr123: what distro/release are you using?
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2021-07-07 04:27:49	usr123	Mint 20.04
2021-07-07 04:28:03	TJ-	usr123: so effectively Debian/Ubuntu
2021-07-07 04:28:13	usr123	$ uname -a
2021-07-07 04:28:14	usr123	Linux laptop 5.4.0-74-generic #83-Ubuntu SMP Sat May 8 02:35:39 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
2021-07-07 04:28:40	TJ-	usr123: show us "pastebinit <( lspci -nnk -d ::0280; ip link; iwconfig; sudo iw list) "
2021-07-07 04:29:06	jim	well, you got some disk space on that thing, maybe 20-40g unpartitioned?
2021-07-07 04:29:25	PaulFertser	TJ-: iwconfig is using deprecated ioctls, they're not real API since 2007. Please use "iw" for all the purposes to avoid confusion.
2021-07-07 04:29:47	TJ-	PaulFertser: but the output is often easier to parse
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2021-07-07 04:29:51	omero	PaulFertser: https://termbin.com/icl9
2021-07-07 04:29:51	PaulFertser	In this case I'd say "iw dev wlan0 station dump" while speed testing is on going is to be checked.
2021-07-07 04:30:16	usr123	TJ-: https://dpaste.org/0uyY
2021-07-07 04:30:35	PaulFertser	TJ-: are you getting MCS and other essential parameters from iwconfig? No, you're using some crude imitation that cfg80211 kernel framework lazily provides when compat layer for wext is enabled.
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2021-07-07 04:31:26	PaulFertser	omero: you have 1 iirc, https://sysctl-explorer.net/net/ipv6/accept_ra/ , probably you have routing enabled now for whatever reason?
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2021-07-07 04:32:29	PaulFertser	omero: in this case you need 2.
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2021-07-07 04:33:06	omero	yep...
2021-07-07 04:33:12	omero	its 2
2021-07-07 04:33:37	omero	#for n in /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra*; do echo "$n="`cat $n`; done
2021-07-07 04:33:49	omero	same for ppp0
2021-07-07 04:33:52	TJ-	usr123: the link report is basically sound but it has power management enabled which is known to cause problems with some devices so one option is to disable that and test.
2021-07-07 04:34:12	omero	/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/accept_ra=2
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2021-07-07 04:35:06	omero	Im almost positive problem is not on my end... but ISP's
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2021-07-07 04:35:22	ficonni_	hi, I have freshly installed artix but I have a problem with X : timeout in locking authority file /home/filip/.Xauthority . I`ve been looking at solutions online for quite a while now but nothing seemed to work, in most cases of other people`s problems it was a case of the files that Xauth makes being present and having wrong priviledges, but when I did xauth generate :O .trusted I get that Xauthority
2021-07-07 04:35:28	ficonni_	does not exist. Any help ?
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2021-07-07 04:35:32	PaulFertser	omero: but rdisc6 shows your the reply
2021-07-07 04:35:35	TJ-	omero: a shortcut for your shell for loop: "grep . /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/*/accept_ra"
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2021-07-07 04:36:38	PaulFertser	omero: after running rdisc, are you sure nothing got printed in dmesg and the address didn't appear in "ip a"?
2021-07-07 04:36:54	omero	yes, but still no global address... just the fe80::1/10
2021-07-07 04:36:56	ficonni_	I also tried simply removing my account and adding a new one, didn`t fix anything either
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2021-07-07 04:37:52	omero	when worked, I used to get something like:    inet6 2a01:2000:2000:3698::1/64 scope global dynamic
2021-07-07 04:37:55	omero	       valid_lft 2591989sec preferred_lft 604789sec
2021-07-07 04:37:57	PaulFertser	omero: you can even manually assign an address from 2a01:2000:2000:769b::/64 to ppp0 and add a default route via fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f dev ppp0
2021-07-07 04:37:58	omero	    inet6 fe80::1/10 scope link
2021-07-07 04:38:11	PaulFertser	omero: try manually assigning it
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2021-07-07 04:39:30	acresearch	poeple in github how can i find an older version of a program?
2021-07-07 04:39:47	backleet	acresearch: which program?
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2021-07-07 04:40:17	iflema	list the tags and pick one?
2021-07-07 04:40:38	iflema	chackout at some pint and build?
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2021-07-07 04:42:03	iflema	git diff   lol
2021-07-07 04:42:05	jim	acresearch, if the program is under git, supposedly it has a history you can look at
2021-07-07 04:42:15	iflema	log -p
2021-07-07 04:42:22	backleet	so how much telemetry/spyware is in audacity actually? I know sometimes people love to make a mountain out of molehill
2021-07-07 04:42:36	backleet	was it opt-in
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2021-07-07 04:42:44	usr123	TJ-: How do I disable the power management?
2021-07-07 04:42:53	usr123	And then how do I re-enable it?
2021-07-07 04:43:16	PaulFertser	TJ-: btw, iwconfig also returns truncated signal strength. There's literally nothing good about this tool in 2021.
2021-07-07 04:43:24	PaulFertser	usr123: iw dev wlan0 set power_save off
2021-07-07 04:43:33	PaulFertser	usr123: it's not permanent
2021-07-07 04:43:48	luminousnine	So what are some alternatives to Audacity?
2021-07-07 04:44:05	iflema	ffmpeg
2021-07-07 04:44:10	usr123	PaulFertser: Not permanent meaning? When does it reset?
2021-07-07 04:44:11	PaulFertser	Ardour is a proper fully-functional DAW.
2021-07-07 04:44:15	jim	luminousnine, for doing multitrack recording?
2021-07-07 04:44:16	PaulFertser	usr123: on driver restart
2021-07-07 04:44:20	luminousnine	jim: yes
2021-07-07 04:44:21	backleet	hmm I see youtube stopped showing dislike counts
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2021-07-07 04:44:32	omero	PaulFertser: https://termbin.com/stl88
2021-07-07 04:44:33	jim	I'll have to second ardour
2021-07-07 04:44:41	luminousnine	Right, i've heard of it
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2021-07-07 04:45:06	jim	luminousnine, the ardour community has a channel here
2021-07-07 04:45:20	PaulFertser	omero: ok, and what happens if you try to traceroute6 some host?
2021-07-07 04:45:55	Kyv	sox
2021-07-07 04:45:56	omero	ping6 www.google.com ....
2021-07-07 04:46:02	 *	iflema chimping aint easy
2021-07-07 04:46:03	Kyv	I haven't used Audacity in a good while
2021-07-07 04:46:12	omero	and I flushed all firewall iptables
2021-07-07 04:46:24	akik	audacity and ardour are not comparable
2021-07-07 04:46:59	luminousnine	jim: i asked because i need to replace advocating Audacity on my site with something else, preferebly free
2021-07-07 04:47:16	omero	I can see the icmp being issued, but I never get a reply
2021-07-07 04:47:26	usr123	PaulFertser: $ iw dev wlan0 set power save off
2021-07-07 04:47:29	usr123	command failed: No such device (-19)
2021-07-07 04:47:41	PaulFertser	usr123: well, you check "iw dev" beforehand and learn how your device is really called.
2021-07-07 04:48:23	usr123	$ iw dev
2021-07-07 04:48:24	usr123	phy#0	Interface wlo1	ifindex 3	wdev 0x1	addr 2c:6f:c9:00:c4:2d
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2021-07-07 04:48:35	usr123	is it wlo1?
2021-07-07 04:48:40	Kyv	sox has a lot of features, highly scriptable and has its own effects array and synthesizer but.. its a command line application
2021-07-07 04:48:48	PaulFertser	omero: I suggested traceroute because it might provide a bit more data, depending on what's really happening with your packets.
2021-07-07 04:48:52	PaulFertser	usr123: yes
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2021-07-07 04:49:38	omero	tr#tracepath6 www.google.com 1?: [LOCALHOST]                        0.021ms pmtu 1462 1:  no reply
2021-07-07 04:49:46	Kyv	may not be a good candidate, depending on who you are advocating toward
2021-07-07 04:49:59	usr123	Doesn't work, just spits our the iw usage output.
2021-07-07 04:50:11	PaulFertser	akik: what task would an experienced ardour user be troubled with that's easy in audacity?
2021-07-07 04:50:11	usr123	And iwconfig still says Power Management: on
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2021-07-07 04:50:31	akik	PaulFertser: they both do audio but in different ways
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2021-07-07 04:50:43	PaulFertser	usr123: power_save has no space in it
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2021-07-07 04:50:55	akik	PaulFertser: ardour doesn't do waveform manipulation
2021-07-07 04:51:02	ficonni_	hi, I have freshly installed artix but I have a problem with X : timeout in locking authority file /home/filip/.Xauthority . I`ve been looking at solutions online for quite a while now but nothing seemed to work, in most cases of other people`s problems it was a case of the files that Xauth makes being present and having wrong priviledges, but when I did xauth generate :O .trusted I get that Xauthority
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2021-07-07 04:51:08	ficonni_	does not exist. Any help ?
2021-07-07 04:51:21	akik	PaulFertser: audacity doesn't do midi
2021-07-07 04:51:22	usr123	PaulFertser: same issue, just spits out usage for iw
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2021-07-07 04:51:46	usr123	$ iw dev wlo1 set powersave off
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2021-07-07 04:52:28	PaulFertser	akik: what kind of waveform manipulation?
2021-07-07 04:52:35	PaulFertser	usr123: but now you do not have underscore in it
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2021-07-07 04:53:12	usr123	Operation not permitted, should I sudo it?
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2021-07-07 04:53:16	PaulFertser	usr123: sure
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2021-07-07 04:54:43	omero	PaulFertser: I think manually assigning the address doesnt work... I guess when ISP does issue a global one properly, it also create a proper ACL (or such) to allow traffic
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2021-07-07 04:55:10	usr123	PaulFertser: Thanks
2021-07-07 04:55:22	PaulFertser	omero: please read about how SLAAC works, it's not really assigning anything.
2021-07-07 04:55:37	usr123	My mac records a speed of 40 Mbps now, and linux laptop records about 20 Mbps, upload on linux is 0, whereas on mac it's 16 Mbps
2021-07-07 04:55:54	akik	PaulFertser: the things you find in audacity's effect menu
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2021-07-07 04:56:05	omero	I really dont understand why ISP is not issuing a valid global address
2021-07-07 04:56:14	omero	it just should work...
2021-07-07 04:56:16	usr123	And the test starts way faster on mac than on linux
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2021-07-07 04:56:56	PaulFertser	akik: so you can add any effects in ardour too, you can route through JACK and have it handle external programs if you need it.
2021-07-07 04:57:17	PaulFertser	omero: you say it doesn't but then you need to explain what exactly is wrong with what you get with rdisc6
2021-07-07 04:57:28	usr123	10 Mbps now.
2021-07-07 04:57:34	PaulFertser	omero: because otherwise your claim seems unfounded.
2021-07-07 04:57:47	backleet	a bit of vagues question: I have docker-compose file for deemix, when I do docker-composer up first time it says "internet access failure, trying again in 5 seconds", I Ctrl+C it, run again works. Internet connection is present both times.
2021-07-07 04:58:32	PaulFertser	usr123: I suggest you replace it with a card properly supported in upstream Linux. For client mode wireless you might be lucky with something from Intel. But I'd recommend mt76-based to get full functionality and support from the community.
2021-07-07 04:58:32	backleet	it uses external named network though, so I can allow it through ufw
2021-07-07 04:58:45	omero	one fact is that ppp0 doesnt get a global address...
2021-07-07 04:58:55	omero	and it should...
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2021-07-07 04:59:19	usr123	PaulFertser: shouldn't the card also affect speeds on wired connection?
2021-07-07 04:59:25	PaulFertser	omero: but if rdisc6 shows correct reply it must be something with your configuration. Or the reply is not really correct but then you should be able to point the exact issue.
2021-07-07 04:59:36	omero	 Prefix                   : 2a01:2000:2000:76a0::/64
2021-07-07 04:59:36	omero	  On-link                 :          Yes
2021-07-07 04:59:36	omero	  Autonomous address conf.:          Yes
2021-07-07 04:59:36	omero	  Valid time              :      2592000 (0x00278d00) seconds
2021-07-07 04:59:36	omero	  Pref. time              :       604800 (0x00093a80) seconds
2021-07-07 04:59:39	omero	 from fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f
2021-07-07 04:59:48	PaulFertser	usr123: wifi addon cards do not have anything to do with wired ethernet.
2021-07-07 04:59:51	omero	that part looks correct to me...
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2021-07-07 05:05:12	acresearch	people i am trying to compile a program (a badly written one unfortunatly)  but i get this error 3: aclocal: not found   what does that mean?
2021-07-07 05:05:46	omero	Ill try with dhcp6
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2021-07-07 05:06:06	omero	and see if anything changes... but SLAAC should just plain work
2021-07-07 05:06:11	PaulFertser	omero: it says Stateful address conf.    :           No
2021-07-07 05:06:14	PaulFertser	omero: so no dice
2021-07-07 05:06:25	PaulFertser	acresearch: just that, install aclocal.
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2021-07-07 05:06:39	omero	but thats is on ISP's side right?
2021-07-07 05:06:44	PaulFertser	acresearch: how did you manage to figure out it was badly written before even starting to build? :)
2021-07-07 05:06:57	acresearch	PaulFertser:  i tried,, E: Unable to locate package aclocal
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2021-07-07 05:07:14	PaulFertser	omero: the ISP tells you they do not provide DHCPv6, yes. And they tell you your computer should self-assign addresses from the prefix.
2021-07-07 05:07:15	acresearch	PaulFertser: the apt package it broken and the older version deleted
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2021-07-07 05:07:36	PaulFertser	acresearch: https://packages.debian.org/file:aclocal
2021-07-07 05:07:44	acresearch	PaulFertser: the dssp v4.0 apt package is broken,   and the older version 3.0 is delete or i cannot find it and install it from apt
2021-07-07 05:07:57	PaulFertser	acresearch: it doesn't mean it's badly written I'd say.
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2021-07-07 05:07:58	omero	thus even if I had a DHCPv6 ... it wouldnt help... mmm
2021-07-07 05:08:02	sumthing1980	is there a special file on linux that when you write to it, it outputs stuff on the current terminal?
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2021-07-07 05:08:16	PaulFertser	omero: yes, you need to figure out what's in that response is wrong. Or what's in your kernel reaction about it is wrong.
2021-07-07 05:08:22	wedwards	sumthing1980: /dev/stdout?
2021-07-07 05:08:25	acresearch	PaulFertser: compilation of the v 4.0 from git does not work given they use a compiling libary that itself needs to be compiled seperatly
2021-07-07 05:08:31	sumthing1980	hmmmm
2021-07-07 05:08:43	PaulFertser	omero: also, if you have any firewall rules at all in ip6tables or in nft, i suggest to flush all of them and make default policies ACCEPT.
2021-07-07 05:08:45	sumthing1980	cool
2021-07-07 05:08:53	acresearch	PaulFertser: anyway, it is a massive waste of time since the broken code has existed since 2020 and the developers are refusing to fix it
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2021-07-07 05:09:08	PaulFertser	acresearch: did they refuse to accept a patch?
2021-07-07 05:09:10	omero	PaulFertser: I flushed everything...
2021-07-07 05:09:10	acresearch	so i am trying to compile an older version,  but i do not have exeprience compiling c code
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2021-07-07 05:09:45	acresearch	PaulFertser: i guess, the git issue is close even though someone gave them 3 soltions, but they did not implement nay of them
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2021-07-07 05:10:08	PaulFertser	acresearch: solutions as in "github pull requests"?
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2021-07-07 05:10:28	acresearch	PaulFertser: no i think just git issue
2021-07-07 05:10:55	acresearch	PaulFertser: https://github.com/biopython/biopython/issues/3433
2021-07-07 05:11:21	acresearch	PaulFertser: https://github.com/biopython/biopython/issues/3505
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2021-07-07 05:11:25	wedwards	I have a file that I want a user to read, but not write to. I set its permissions to 0400, but vim changes the permissions of the file (which it can do, because the file is owned by the user that shouldn't be able to write to it), then writes to it and resets the permissions. Is the best solution to chown root:$usergroup and use octal permissions 0440? Or is there a better way?
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2021-07-07 05:12:19	PaulFertser	acresearch: I do not see a solution there, just discussions.
2021-07-07 05:12:53	acresearch	PaulFertser: anyway, i know for a fact that dssp v3.0 works fine because i have it in my system,,,, i am trying to setup a server to run a long computation but i cannot install dssp v.3   how can i find older versions in apt?
2021-07-07 05:13:13	PaulFertser	wedwards: permissions on files can be modified by the user that has write permissions on the directory containing it. Unless special flag is set on the directory.
2021-07-07 05:13:31	PaulFertser	acresearch: what distro are you using?
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2021-07-07 05:13:39	acresearch	PaulFertser: ubuntu 21
2021-07-07 05:13:39	wedwards	PaulFertser: that's not the issue. The user doesn't have write permissions on the parent directory.
2021-07-07 05:13:51	varaindemian	can I see the history of grub?
2021-07-07 05:13:54	wedwards	My proposed solution works, just asking if there's a better way.
2021-07-07 05:13:59	varaindemian	what params have been changed id the past?
2021-07-07 05:14:02	omero	I see this: Jul  7 10:54:51 naldvras pppd[22910]: rcvd [IPCP ConfNak id=0x1 <addr 79.24.190.28>] ... Nak doesnt sound good PaulFertser
2021-07-07 05:14:05	PaulFertser	acresearch: no idea about ubuntu, I have an impression it's broken all around for no reason, so you gotta ask someone else. Probably on their support channel.
2021-07-07 05:14:14	PaulFertser	omero: it's about IPv4 though.
2021-07-07 05:14:41	omero	Jul  7 10:54:51 naldvras pppd[22910]: rcvd [IPV6CP ConfNak id=0x1 <addr fe80::0000:0000:0000:0001>]
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2021-07-07 05:14:47	omero	sorry wrong line
2021-07-07 05:14:47	acresearch	PaulFertser: oh ok ,,, anyway thanks for you help,, :-)
2021-07-07 05:15:26	PaulFertser	wedwards: ok, I'm wrong on that one, agreed.
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2021-07-07 05:16:08	wedwards	PaulFertser: but thanks for your reply anyway
2021-07-07 05:16:29	PaulFertser	wedwards: guess your solution is sensible given traditional UNIX permissions model. Of course you can have it more fine-grained with POSIX ACL.
2021-07-07 05:16:45	PaulFertser	Or selinux labels probably.
2021-07-07 05:17:20	PaulFertser	omero: in one of the full logs you showed before it was clear the communication was established on LL.
2021-07-07 05:17:37	PaulFertser	omero: btw, are you able to ping -I ppp0 <remote LL address>?
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2021-07-07 05:17:48	omero	yes that works
2021-07-07 05:17:56	PaulFertser	omero: I wonder if you should add default route via that rather than fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f
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2021-07-07 05:18:18	varaindemian	anyone?
2021-07-07 05:18:28	omero	PING fe80::0090:1a00:01a4:d80f(fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f) from fe80::1 ppp0: 56 data bytes
2021-07-07 05:18:31	omero	64 bytes from fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=14.6 ms
2021-07-07 05:19:14	omero	mmm... I tried earlier...
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2021-07-07 05:20:36	PaulFertser	omero: so if pinging it directly works then ICMP traceroute should at least show that first host. Because it's the same ICMP request just the destination is different but TTL is one.
2021-07-07 05:20:41	omero	https://termbin.com/39ts << when it worked, thats what I got
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2021-07-07 05:22:41	PaulFertser	omero: so in your tcpdump can you spot any difference (other than the destination address) between the ICMP requests directed to fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f (that get the replies) and the requests to some Internet host?
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2021-07-07 05:27:45	varaindemian	anyone knows if I can see what have been changed in the grub?
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2021-07-07 05:28:34	PaulFertser	varaindemian: in software source code?
2021-07-07 05:28:54	PaulFertser	Debian ships ChangeLog for all packaged software, it should have all the changes.
2021-07-07 05:29:12	omero	I can see icmps being issued but never receiving an answer...
2021-07-07 05:29:26	varaindemian	PaulFertser no just what have been added or changed in /etc/defaul/grub
2021-07-07 05:29:38	omero	but when I ping the CPE address, I see them
2021-07-07 05:29:42	omero	uhm
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2021-07-07 05:30:38	omero	11:27:36.992608 PPPoE  [ses 0x288] IP6 fe80::90:1a00:1a4:d80f > ff02::1: ICMP6, router advertisement, length 56 << I also can see those
2021-07-07 05:30:39	PaulFertser	varaindemian: that directory is not under version control. If you or some other program changes it, the previous contents is lost unless a backup is made somehow.
2021-07-07 05:31:03	PaulFertser	omero: yes, you're supposed to be receiving RAs from it.
2021-07-07 05:31:32	PaulFertser	omero: so are the outgoing ICMP packets identical (sans the dst address)?
2021-07-07 05:31:38	omero	was just saying that that at least seems ok
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2021-07-07 05:31:48	varaindemian	PaulFertser I remember there was a param needed if I wanted to use only the Intel driver and not Nvidia. but I forgot what was that thing
2021-07-07 05:32:04	varaindemian	Otherwise if I switch from Nvidia to Intel the system freeezes
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2021-07-07 05:33:26	PaulFertser	varaindemian: if your config was overwritten by an upgrade probably dpkg saved a backup in the same dir.
2021-07-07 05:33:49	varaindemian	PaulFertser I did that manually
2021-07-07 05:33:53	Kyv	modeset parameter?
2021-07-07 05:33:58	varaindemian	it was like a workaround
2021-07-07 05:34:14	PaulFertser	varaindemian: but how was the file contents lost after that?
2021-07-07 05:34:22	varaindemian	Kyv probably? Maybe you helped me back then? A few weeks ago
2021-07-07 05:34:34	akik	varaindemian: modprobe.blacklist= ?
2021-07-07 05:35:07	PaulFertser	omero: so there're two things odd about what you observe: first, the kernel doesn't self-assign address; second: you get replies directly from the other side but not when you try to pass it.
2021-07-07 05:35:10	omero	PaulFertser: can you see anything on your side?
2021-07-07 05:35:18	varaindemian	akik I do not remember using blacklist
2021-07-07 05:35:39	PaulFertser	omero: I can try pinging IP from your range from the outside, what do you have assigned in "ip a"?
2021-07-07 05:35:39	varaindemian	I know somebody helped me do this setup and then it worked
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2021-07-07 05:36:03	omero	inet6 2a01:2000:2000:3698::1/64 scope global
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2021-07-07 05:37:24	PaulFertser	omero: https://termbin.com/8pux doesn't help much :(
2021-07-07 05:37:42	varaindemian	`Add nouveau.modeset=0to the line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX`
2021-07-07 05:37:44	akik	varaindemian: you don't want to use the nvidia again?
2021-07-07 05:37:44	varaindemian	amybe this?
2021-07-07 05:38:19	omero	eh, you at least get to milano :)
2021-07-07 05:38:23	varaindemian	akik yeah, if I don;t want to
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2021-07-07 05:38:36	PaulFertser	omero: only virtually :(
2021-07-07 05:38:46	omero	yes...
2021-07-07 05:39:29	akik	varaindemian: you can do it with modprobe.blacklist=
2021-07-07 05:39:30	PaulFertser	omero: if your hardware is general purpose can you just try booting some live distro? Just in case?
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2021-07-07 05:40:30	omero	uhm... thats a no-can-do for me
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2021-07-07 05:43:55	jim	omero, can you tell us what's the reason for that?
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2021-07-07 05:44:42	omero	jim, I never reboot... unless really really necessary...
2021-07-07 05:45:20	PaulFertser	Is there an option you can try some other device with wired ethernet? Then you can avoid rebooting.
2021-07-07 05:45:28	PaulFertser	Probably borrow a laptop from a friend
2021-07-07 05:45:34	PaulFertser	Or raspberrypi
2021-07-07 05:46:04	jim	omero, what's the situation?
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2021-07-07 05:47:06	jim	are you the one experiencing lower bandwidth on other OSes?
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2021-07-07 05:47:14	PaulFertser	omero: hm, without rebooting you can also try booting a VM with a regular distro and bridge eth0 there.
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2021-07-07 05:47:48	PaulFertser	omero: or even just a Debian chroot!
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2021-07-07 05:48:54	Kyv	varaindemian: I haven't been following closely and dont know what you're attempting to do but whatever it is, I suggest going over the ArchWiki for NVIDIA/nouveau.
2021-07-07 05:49:03	omero	I could try the laptop option, yes...
2021-07-07 05:49:16	PaulFertser	jim: no, it was usr123 having wireless issues with realtek.
2021-07-07 05:49:33	Kyv	If you dont want to use the nvidia driver again you can just remove it from your system and any parameters associated with it.
2021-07-07 05:49:34	jim	was that issue resolved?
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2021-07-07 06:01:52	jim	PaulFertser, so no solution was found for that?
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2021-07-07 06:02:43	jim	what I saw, was he had issues with -linux- when using the realtek
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2021-07-07 06:09:49	PaulFertser	jim: I think he or she reported that disabling power saving on the client side partially helped. idk, can't understand why people continue to bother with realtek when Mediatek cards are readily available und supported upstream.
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2021-07-07 06:10:46	jim	PaulFertser, so it was his fault for buying the wrong card/
2021-07-07 06:10:47	jim	?
2021-07-07 06:11:17	PaulFertser	jim: I guess it came with laptop, so probably it's a fault of not replacing it after buying the whole thing.
2021-07-07 06:11:55	omero	PaulFertser: #ping6 www.google.com
2021-07-07 06:11:55	omero	PING www.google.com(mil02s05-in-x2004.1e100.net) 56 data bytes
2021-07-07 06:11:55	omero	64 bytes from mil04s40-in-x04.1e100.net: icmp_seq=1 ttl=113 time=20.7 ms
2021-07-07 06:11:55	omero	64 bytes from mil02s05-in-x2004.1e100.net: icmp_seq=2 ttl=113 time=20.8 ms
2021-07-07 06:12:06	jim	what made the card so much slower under linux?
2021-07-07 06:12:14	omero	on ipv6 :)
2021-07-07 06:12:49	omero	64 bytes from 2a00:1450:4002:803::2004: icmp_seq=2 ttl=113 time=20.6 m << proof :)
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2021-07-07 06:13:57	omero	but I should get a global address automatically, and not assign an arbitrary from the prefix I see in the rdisc6 answer
2021-07-07 06:14:10	PaulFertser	omero: what did you change?
2021-07-07 06:14:40	omero	I just added manually inet6 2a01:2000:2000:76a0::2/64 to ppp0
2021-07-07 06:14:44	PaulFertser	jim: it's hard to tell, especially given that he was comparing it with a "mac" which I assume is a different device and might be even using a different band.
2021-07-07 06:14:56	PaulFertser	omero: but didn't you do it before too?
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2021-07-07 06:15:37	jim	PaulFertser, do you think he was using the same hardware but running different OSes?
2021-07-07 06:15:55	PaulFertser	jim: with windows/GNU/Linux comparison, probably, with "mac", unlikely.
2021-07-07 06:15:58	omero	well, not exactly.... I just copied that old address I had... didnt read exactly the prefix was slightly different
2021-07-07 06:16:05	PaulFertser	omero: I can ping you now too.
2021-07-07 06:16:14	omero	perfect!
2021-07-07 06:16:32	PaulFertser	omero: so I guess the question boils down to why your custom kernel doesn't just accept that RA you see received and decoded with rdisc6.
2021-07-07 06:16:32	omero	of course, now Im routed and no firewalls :P
2021-07-07 06:17:04	omero	havent changed kernel in ages... and its always worked fine
2021-07-07 06:17:21	omero	Im really confused now
2021-07-07 06:17:38	PaulFertser	omero: what if you rerun rdisc6 now?
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2021-07-07 06:17:53	PaulFertser	omero: it might suddenly start working and give you an additional address.
2021-07-07 06:18:27	omero	I just ckecked...
2021-07-07 06:18:58	omero	I was reading earlier that rdisc6 can be used to force local host to autoconfig itself
2021-07-07 06:19:14	omero	infact I was expecting that to happen
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2021-07-07 06:20:23	omero	out of curiosity, can you ping the v4 address too? 79.24.190.28
2021-07-07 06:20:43	omero	I dont expect that to work tho
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2021-07-07 06:21:43	PaulFertser	omero: doesn't work, as you expect
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2021-07-07 06:22:15	omero	yeah... the CPE filters that... but apparently its oblivious to v6
2021-07-07 06:22:28	jim	PaulFertser, the other thing, is I noticed you and TJ- in an argument over how to assist, how to determine problems and how to apply solutions
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2021-07-07 06:23:32	jim	the thing about that is, TJ- has been around for years and years, maybe has the same amount of knowledge as you, and I didn't see that was acknowledged
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2021-07-07 06:25:37	PaulFertser	jim: I acknowledge TJ- has expertise, but I think I'm free to express my own opinions, and I'm ready to back (most of them) up with links to source code.
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2021-07-07 06:26:36	PaulFertser	jim: and I'm sure TJ- is more knowledgeable than me in some areas, and I guess there're other aspects where I have more experience.
2021-07-07 06:27:01	jim	PaulFertser, you might want to hold off or at least slow down while he's in the middle of a session (note that he's also free to express his opinion, as he was doing while trying to help)
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2021-07-07 06:28:13	PaulFertser	jim: I'm ready to admit my mistakes. In this particular case though I think my remark that "iw dev <vif> station dump" is more useful than "iwconfig" was helping the session rather than distracting anybody.
2021-07-07 06:28:29	omero	PaulFertser: https://termbin.com/uo402 «« this is the whole /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ppp0/*
2021-07-07 06:29:10	omero	seems all is as it should be, to me
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2021-07-07 06:29:55	jim	PaulFertser, not arguing how useful a particular tool is... what I'm arguing, is you shouldn't interfere with a session in progress.
2021-07-07 06:30:11	PaulFertser	jim: you can try it on your own system and make your own judgement regarding the data you see. I might have expressed that idea in a bit too rough way though, but, again, it's IRC and we are supposed to be interested in tech more than etiquette, so I'd rather discuss specific software and hardware details rather than style.
2021-07-07 06:30:38	PaulFertser	jim: I think if I'm sure my input should be immediately useful in the ongoing session then I'm supposed to chime in.
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2021-07-07 06:31:38	jim	PaulFertser, find a way to let him know other than interfering with an in-progress session
2021-07-07 06:32:05	PaulFertser	omero: I'd try to disable /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ppp0/forwarding then rerun rdisc6, then if nothing changes set /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/ppp0/use_tempaddr=2 . I do not really have any other idea why kernel might not like it. Short of adding debug statements to the relevant kernel code.
2021-07-07 06:32:40	PaulFertser	jim: what if I made my suggestion to the person receiving help rather than TJ-? Would that be better?
2021-07-07 06:32:44	jim	as it stands I haven't looked at the backlog to find out if the session was successful or not, or whether it would have been if the older tools were used
2021-07-07 06:33:47	PaulFertser	jim: usr123 said "Thanks" to me after succesfully using an "iw" command to disable power saving. TJ- didn't offer any specific way how to disable it (but it was his idea to try).
2021-07-07 06:34:01	PaulFertser	jim: I'd ask TJ- if he's unhappy with my behaviour or not.
2021-07-07 06:34:07	jim	it seems like you were trying to say that the method/tools TJ- was using was -not- useful at all. do you have support for that?
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2021-07-07 06:35:20	jim	PaulFertser, I'm one of the folks charged with making sure things run smoothly
2021-07-07 06:35:21	PaulFertser	jim: yes, please compare "iwconfig" output and "iw dev <vif> station dump" output and see how the former lacks MCS specification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#Data_rates which is rather essential to see if there's a rate control issue or not.
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2021-07-07 06:35:28	PaulFertser	jim: I know
2021-07-07 06:35:58	PaulFertser	jim: if TJ- doesn't complain and usr123 said thanks I'd say it's smooth enough. My personal opinion of course, I do not impose it on anybody.
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2021-07-07 06:36:43	omero	no juice :/
2021-07-07 06:36:44	PaulFertser	Also, "iwconfig" wrongly reports RSSI, truncating everything that's louder than -40 dBm.
2021-07-07 06:36:44	sumthing1980	hello can you modify a ext4 drive for smaller blocksizes?
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2021-07-07 06:37:03	sumthing1980	is there a program to analyze waste space from blocksizes
2021-07-07 06:37:45	jim	sumthing1980, is there enough room on the drive to make another ext4 filesystem on it with the blocksize you want?
2021-07-07 06:38:09	sumthing1980	mmm yeah?
2021-07-07 06:38:24	sumthing1980	I guess you cant change it while it is running?
2021-07-07 06:39:19	sumthing1980	firstly how to analyze this? any program?
2021-07-07 06:39:44	jim	sumthing1980, well I haven't tried, so I don't know one way or the other... having said that, such an operation is likely to be fairly dangerous, and making another filesystem and copying files to it, is going to be much safer
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2021-07-07 06:40:17	PaulFertser	jim: proof for the essential data truncation statement: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/wireless/wireless-testing.git/tree/net/wireless/wext-compat.c#n1368
2021-07-07 06:40:23	ImQ009	Hello. I'm trying to cat a certain "file" in debugfs. However, cat just gives me an error "invalid argument"
2021-07-07 06:41:10	sumthing1980	is btrfs much better than ext4 in this? does it have dynamic blocksizes or something?
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2021-07-07 06:42:32	jim	sumthing1980, I guess btrfs is coming along, in terms if it's being stable over long periods of time. I don't know if it has a dynamic blocksize feature.
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2021-07-07 06:43:31	jim	sumthing1980, my opinion, is btrfs hasn't shown enough stability yet.
2021-07-07 06:43:37	sumthing1980	okay
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2021-07-07 06:43:55	sumthing1980	so any program you know that analyzes waste space due to blocksize?
2021-07-07 06:44:06	akik	jim: do you use it daily? what problems do you have seen?
2021-07-07 06:44:18	PaulFertser	jim: btw, when diagnosing wireless performance issues one has to keep in mind the rate control algorithms will be automatically going to lower rates in absence of traffic so all the parameters need to be captured while running some kind of speed test in the required direction.
2021-07-07 06:44:26	iflema	analyse
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2021-07-07 06:45:49	jim	so, the safest way, make a second ext4, with the right blocksize, mount it (on /mnt or some other temporary mount point) and copy files across. once this is done, and you can mount the second ext4 filesystem, you can consider getting rid of the first one
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2021-07-07 06:46:30	sumthing1980	ok and a software?
2021-07-07 06:46:47	jim	PaulFertser, is there any way to test a wireless setup (machine with wireless card, plus wireless access point)?
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2021-07-07 06:47:26	jim	sumthing1980, that one, I don't nkow
2021-07-07 06:47:32	sumthing1980	ok
2021-07-07 06:48:33	jim	PaulFertser, test it, that is, at the maximum rate the connection to the WAP is capable of
2021-07-07 06:49:06	PaulFertser	jim: afaik, the best way is to use wireless AP as a bridge, attach some capable enough host to it with wired Ethernet, and then run "iperf" between that wired host and a wireless client. The easiest repeatable setup. And while doing that one can observe "station dump" on one or both sides of the link to see actual parameters. Some cards also support reporting channel busy time in "survey dump"
2021-07-07 06:49:12	PaulFertser	and that might provide additional insights into radio bandwidth utilisation by other devices (including those you can't control) around.
2021-07-07 06:50:08	PaulFertser	jim: with MIMO communication it's also important to pay attention to capabilities of both parties, e.g. even if your AP is 3x3:3 but the client is 1x1:1 it won't be a fair testing.
2021-07-07 06:50:54	PaulFertser	FCC (via the fccio website) usually has information about supported bands, power limits and number of Rx/Tx chains and antennas for every device sold in the USA.
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2021-07-07 06:52:57	PaulFertser	And another thing is the AP configuration. One might enable or disable "greenfield" for compatibility with 802.11b (?) devices, one might enable HT40 on 2.4 GHz band (but also the AP might just automatically downgrade to HT20 in case it thinks there's an interference from other HT20 APs on the secondary channel) and other details like this. HT20 vs. HT40 is twice the performance, so it really is
2021-07-07 06:53:03	PaulFertser	an essential part.
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2021-07-07 07:13:07	jim	PaulFertser, to get back to the main reason I wanted to make contact with you, you seem to be a very good and capable helper... this isn't the problem. reaching out to an in-progress help conversation to add your stuff, is a problem... one whose form we've had to deal with before. you have talent, I'd rather have you in the channel than not...
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2021-07-07 07:13:37	jim	notice the good feelings you get when you help someone successfully....
2021-07-07 07:14:23	jim	please don't take away others' good feelings when they help.
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2021-07-07 07:16:49	nuttty	There is war between Libera/Freenode. Don't suffer come to irc freenode chat <== new network for only chat.
2021-07-07 07:16:51	nuttty	Come fast register your channel, first come, first serve basis.
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2021-07-07 07:22:11	omero	ha! PaulFertser I dont know why but suddenly all automagically works.
2021-07-07 07:22:23	omero	I mean the RA gets finally headed
2021-07-07 07:23:04	omero	https://termbin.com/ji92
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2021-07-07 07:23:43	omero	havent done anything since 1h... was reading stuff around to see if I could find some similar cases
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2021-07-07 07:24:20	omero	dmesg had a few entries like: ICMPv6 RA: ndisc_router_discovery() failed to add default route
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2021-07-07 07:25:02	omero	but those are from over 1h ago when we were tampering with /proc/sys/net/...
2021-07-07 07:25:28	-->	FoodMan (~FoodMan@cpc104776-belf12-2-0-cust417.2-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #linux
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2021-07-07 07:26:50	omero	when I got the (auto) ipv6, I also got the proper default route
2021-07-07 07:27:01	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.229.209.48) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 07:27:24	jim	sounds like it started working to me...
2021-07-07 07:27:50	omero	I am quite confused now... maybe someone at ISP noticed I was getting desperate and 'touched' something
2021-07-07 07:27:53	omero	:D
2021-07-07 07:28:02	-->	drd (~drd@93-36-3-111.ip57.fastwebnet.it) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 07:28:22	omero	I surely did nothing on my end for at least 1h...
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2021-07-07 07:29:05	omero	yes, jim \o/ its working
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2021-07-07 07:31:09	omero	and dmesg doesnt show any weird stuff
2021-07-07 07:31:17	jim	so, at first you get a largish subnet... then you get an address from that subnet?
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2021-07-07 07:34:21	omero	dont ask...
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2021-07-07 07:35:09	omero	no idea why they reserve me a texas-sized net then a hut
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2021-07-07 07:37:00	omero	but that secondary addr is kinda new thing... never seen that happening before
2021-07-07 07:37:09	omero	mmm
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2021-07-07 07:37:40	akik	the amount of addresses in an ipv6 /64 is huge
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2021-07-07 07:38:18	akik	so large that i don't even know the number in my own language :)
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2021-07-07 07:39:02	omero	bhuhuahua
2021-07-07 07:39:11	omero	well... mmm...
2021-07-07 07:39:54	omero	I wonder what other are getting now...
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2021-07-07 07:43:12	goddard	is it possible to reset video signal?
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2021-07-07 07:46:38	akik	goddard: you can restart your display manager which in turn restarts xorg
2021-07-07 07:46:49	iflema	signal
2021-07-07 07:46:56	iflema	to monitor?
2021-07-07 07:47:58	omero	akik, 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 IPv6 addresses !
2021-07-07 07:48:00	<--	Smokie (~meh@33.127.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-07 07:48:20	 *	iflema meow
2021-07-07 07:48:42	omero	a gadzillio?
2021-07-07 07:49:06	iflema	cluster ...something
2021-07-07 07:49:13	akik	omero: and i have a handful of devices at home :) tunnelbroker.net gives you also a /48 if you just ask
2021-07-07 07:49:39	peetaur	18 quintillion addresses ought to be enough for anyone
2021-07-07 07:49:43	akik	don't even need to ask, it was a check box in their web ui
2021-07-07 07:49:43	--	TheRAt is now known as TheRAt_AWAY
2021-07-07 07:49:46	--	TheRAt_AWAY is now known as TheRAt
2021-07-07 07:49:46	omero	yeah.. I think /48 is pretty much the average
2021-07-07 07:50:33	omero	I think I could host the NASA LAN
2021-07-07 07:51:21	omero	lets see for how long that pppd can stay up
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2021-07-07 07:56:57	Psi-Jack	pppd? But.. But why?
2021-07-07 07:57:19	Psi-Jack	TheRAt: Away nicks really do suck.
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2021-07-07 07:58:03	omero	Psi-Jack: my ISP only provides IPv6 in that fashion
2021-07-07 07:58:26	Psi-Jack	Through.... ppp?
2021-07-07 07:58:36	omero	it would be great if they did that directly on CPE, I agree
2021-07-07 07:58:46	Psi-Jack	I'd say fire them!
2021-07-07 07:58:52	goddard	i have some strange bug where the display doesn't restore signal
2021-07-07 07:59:09	niko	TheRAt: please avoid away nick, it's annoying even more in room with thousand of users
2021-07-07 07:59:26	goddard	im about to go buy a different display if i cant fix this
2021-07-07 07:59:35	goddard	and my current display is awesome i dont wanna switch it
2021-07-07 07:59:44	<--	aklis (~aklis@user/aklis) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 07:59:58	iflema	what about xset
2021-07-07 08:00:06	iflema	give it atickle
2021-07-07 08:00:09	akik	Psi-Jack: i'm pretty sure he's not using an analog modem
2021-07-07 08:00:21	Psi-Jack	akik: Never claimed he was.
2021-07-07 08:01:12	iflema	goddard: maybe have a look at xset
2021-07-07 08:01:16	goddard	ok
2021-07-07 08:01:35	omero	or maybe randr?
2021-07-07 08:01:36	goddard	i was think at the very least i could login via ssh and maybe run some command to fix the signal
2021-07-07 08:01:46	goddard	iflema think this might work?
2021-07-07 08:01:59	iflema	remote?
2021-07-07 08:02:07	iflema	footy down?
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2021-07-07 08:03:06	omero	sorry it should be xrandr, but not sure if it helps in your case
2021-07-07 08:03:17	iflema	man xset   is scary
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2021-07-07 08:03:33	iflema	compaired to --help
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2021-07-07 08:04:12	omero	mmm .. I uset that just to turnoff dpms
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2021-07-07 08:04:22	omero	its annoying
2021-07-07 08:04:32	 *	kirk781 finally remapped keys on wayland
2021-07-07 08:04:45	 *	iflema cant even
2021-07-07 08:05:19	-->	Abrax (~Abrax@user/abrax) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 08:05:27	iflema	goddard: your in the same room?
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2021-07-07 08:05:42	iflema	have you tried turning it off then on again
2021-07-07 08:06:48	iflema	the monitor or either iguess
2021-07-07 08:07:25	iflema	ctrl+alt+F4 the ctrl+alt+del
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2021-07-07 08:08:49	freeman_h	hi guys in my linux server i have created a new ssh key for a new user. however when this person try to ssh it says they do not have permission
2021-07-07 08:09:01	freeman_h	do i need to add the key in authorized_keys file?
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2021-07-07 08:10:10	Kyv	you created it on the server, the client does not have it
2021-07-07 08:10:18	ananke	freeman_h: define 'I created a new ssh key for a new user'
2021-07-07 08:11:22	<--	Guest42 (~textual@192.146.154.3) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 08:11:39	freeman_h	i mean i want the ssh-keygen command give it a file name and it is in ~/.ssh directory
2021-07-07 08:11:50	<--	yagi (~smonichi@user/yagi) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 08:11:59	iflema	2:
2021-07-07 08:12:06	freeman_h	i have 2 file rob.pub and rob
2021-07-07 08:12:23	<--	Psymania (~Psymania@ip184-176-88-58.ph.ph.cox.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 08:12:24	freeman_h	also have the default id_rsa files also
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2021-07-07 08:12:49	goddard	iflema yeah whatever i click it doesn't come back
2021-07-07 08:12:55	ananke	freeman_h: right, then what did you do?
2021-07-07 08:12:57	goddard	the signal that is
2021-07-07 08:13:08	-->	shubbu (~shubbu_@223.229.209.48) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 08:13:15	iflema	goddard: you could   ctrl+alt+F4 then ctrl+alt+del
2021-07-07 08:13:21	iflema	reboot it
2021-07-07 08:13:24	freeman_h	ananke, nothing else
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2021-07-07 08:13:33	goddard	yeah reboot is what i have been doing
2021-07-07 08:13:37	goddard	terrible options though
2021-07-07 08:13:39	iflema	k
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2021-07-07 08:13:52	goddard	i have to press the reset button on my case
2021-07-07 08:13:56	iflema	goddard: so it goes to sleep?
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2021-07-07 08:14:04	ananke	freeman_h: well then, how do you expect it to work, just by making a key pair?
2021-07-07 08:14:05	goddard	i think its some bug
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2021-07-07 08:14:13	goddard	the bug even existed in windows for awhile
2021-07-07 08:14:13	iflema	goddard: dont press reset button
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2021-07-07 08:14:27	Kyv	took the words right out
2021-07-07 08:14:28	iflema	tap the power
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2021-07-07 08:14:54	ananke	freeman_h: 1) you need to add the public part to authorized_keys, 2) you need to give the private part to the user, 3) the new user needs to use that private key while trying to log in
2021-07-07 08:14:55	iflema	goddard: how long does it work for
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2021-07-07 08:15:18	freeman_h	ananke, cheers i am missing 1. i have done 2
2021-07-07 08:15:33	wirez	any linux progs that i can use to change my pinephone imei?
2021-07-07 08:15:41	freeman_h	ananke, cat rob.pub >> authorized_keys should do
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2021-07-07 08:16:02	ananke	freeman_h: yes
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2021-07-07 08:16:31	goddard	iflema it works until i step away from the computer and turn off my screen
2021-07-07 08:16:36	freeman_h	thanks ananke
2021-07-07 08:16:58	iflema	goddard: xset -dpms
2021-07-07 08:16:59	freeman_h	1 more question if ssh key is not format correctly is they a command to run to reformat it correctly?
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2021-07-07 08:17:15	goddard	ill give that a shot
2021-07-07 08:17:17	iflema	goddard: and maybe a s off
2021-07-07 08:17:21	iflema	xset s off
2021-07-07 08:17:39	iflema	:D
2021-07-07 08:18:09	 *	iflema peirce off jack gibbs on
2021-07-07 08:18:12	ananke	freeman_h: no, because the 'is not format correctly' can mean anything
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2021-07-07 08:18:49	Kyv	this all could have gone smoother
2021-07-07 08:18:57	Kyv	thats what happens
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2021-07-07 08:19:28	iflema	goddard: wait until you walk aay
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2021-07-07 08:19:32	 *	rascul smooths Kyv
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2021-07-07 08:19:38	freeman_h	ananke, i compy and email the private key to him when when it run the command to connect to it. it says
2021-07-07 08:19:38	freeman_h	Load key "C:\\Users\\RobMoore\\Documents\\keys\\id_rsa": invalid format
2021-07-07 08:19:39	freeman_h	root@{ip address}: Permission denied (publickey).
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2021-07-07 08:20:15	Kyv	too hard to read the first thing about what you are doing
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2021-07-07 08:20:34	iflema	goddard: so you switch off the monitor and when you switch it back on?
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2021-07-07 08:22:23	rascul	in the past i've noticed that dpms and screen blanking were reset when the monitor was turned off and the back on
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2021-07-07 08:23:19	Kyv	freeman_h: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-ssh-keys-2
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2021-07-07 08:25:00	iflema	-.-
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2021-07-07 08:26:14	iflema	rascul: smooths
2021-07-07 08:26:16	iflema	?
2021-07-07 08:26:30	 *	rascul smooths iflema
2021-07-07 08:26:32	iflema	is that like industrial
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2021-07-07 08:26:51	rascul	yes, industrial smoothing
2021-07-07 08:27:07	iflema	-.o
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2021-07-07 08:29:45	ananke	freeman_h: attach it as a file, don't copy/paste
2021-07-07 08:30:01	freeman_h	ananke, tried it and same thing
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2021-07-07 08:31:48	freeman_h	ananke, ffs i have created a new ssh key and added the public key to the authorised_key file. I when try on my pc to ssh using the private key but I am getting the same error
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2021-07-07 08:31:59	freeman_h	i used cat rob_new_key
2021-07-07 08:32:13	freeman_h	and copy it and then paste it in notepad and save it
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2021-07-07 08:32:15	ananke	freeman_h: _copy_ the file
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2021-07-07 08:32:39	ananke	don't copy & paste content, copy the file between systems
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2021-07-07 08:32:53	freeman_h	ananke, my pc and the server are different
2021-07-07 08:33:03	freeman_h	i can only connect to the server using terminal
2021-07-07 08:33:38	ananke	scp can copy files between systems
2021-07-07 08:33:51	Kyv	what is wrong with ssh-copy-id?
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2021-07-07 08:34:55	ananke	Kyv: who said anything is wrong with it?
2021-07-07 08:35:35	Kyv	the fact that the key is being emailed
2021-07-07 08:35:52	Kyv	when there are purpose made things for this
2021-07-07 08:35:53	freeman_h	ananke, so i need to give rob the other user my private key so he can ssh has me and then copy his ssh key to his machine and then use it?
2021-07-07 08:35:58	freeman_h	sounds very long hahaha
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2021-07-07 08:36:41	ananke	Kyv: so you assumed that the user in question has access already. stop assuming
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2021-07-07 08:37:20	Kyv	He is just now grasping the concept of a key pair.
2021-07-07 08:37:30	ananke	freeman_h: I'm talking about _you_, not your user, since you are seeing the same problem
2021-07-07 08:37:46	Psi-Jack	Copy/Paste for SSH keys is literally just fine. It is, afterall, just text.
2021-07-07 08:38:03	goddard	iflema yeah i turn the monitor off and when i come back it is no signal
2021-07-07 08:38:08	goddard	supposedly its some nvidia bug
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2021-07-07 08:38:21	goddard	with hdmi 2.1 or specifically the LG CX display i dont know
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2021-07-07 08:38:44	Psi-Jack	freeman_h: However.. /never/ give /anyone/ your private key. Period.
2021-07-07 08:38:47	goddard	thats why i would be happy to have any solution that allows me to come back to my computer and actually use it without a reboot
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2021-07-07 08:39:04	freeman_h	ananke, i can ssh using my ssh key no issue but if i creeated a new ssh key on the server add it to the authorised_key file. If i copy the ssh private key string and then paste it on my machine to test it then it says the format is incorrect @Psi-Jack
2021-07-07 08:39:11	ananke	Psi-Jack: in theory, yes, but the results here show a problem. either the process being used is flawed, or the key is already damaged
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2021-07-07 08:39:20	freeman_h	Psi-Jack, i was not planning to do that
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2021-07-07 08:39:32	ananke	Psi-Jack: copying the key will help identify what's wrong
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2021-07-07 08:40:17	mlu	freeman_h: OpenSSH is trying to encourage you to mirgate to a newer, more secure format for the private key
2021-07-07 08:40:17	Psi-Jack	freeman_h: Putty SSH key versus openssh SSH key?
2021-07-07 08:40:27	freeman_h	 openssh SSH key
2021-07-07 08:40:31	mlu	freeman_h: you can ignore the message
2021-07-07 08:41:41	mlu	https://coolaj86.com/articles/the-openssh-private-key-format/
2021-07-07 08:42:44	Psi-Jack	I'm... doubting that's the issue, mlu.
2021-07-07 08:42:47	freeman_h	I coudl try the ssh on my machine and then use ssh-copy-id to open it to the server however ssh-copy-id does not let you specific which file you want to open and also the server cannot be login in using username and password only username and ssh
2021-07-07 08:42:57	freeman_h	happy fucking days
2021-07-07 08:43:03	Psi-Jack	freeman_h: Yes it does, -i
2021-07-07 08:43:09	Psi-Jack	And, kindly mind the language, please.
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2021-07-07 08:45:11	Kyv	telling me I assume, you suggest scp right above my comment.
2021-07-07 08:45:16	Kyv	must really have shit for brains/
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2021-07-07 08:45:51	ananke	Kyv: you're not very bright, are you? hard time following very basic conversation
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2021-07-07 08:46:38	Kyv	not when the person doesnt make a half-hearted attempt to help themselves no
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2021-07-07 08:46:41	Kyv	likely not
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2021-07-07 08:48:14	Kyv	maybe theyre not aware such a thing exists
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2021-07-07 08:59:22	kieto	Hi! do you know how can I get a list of all spanish words in a file? I want to use it to search for those words in Python files, using grep
2021-07-07 08:59:36	Dagmar	Freshman labor.
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2021-07-07 09:00:10	Dagmar	Otherwise, https://www.google.com/search?q=get+uniq+words+in+file+linux
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2021-07-07 09:01:19	kieto	What? I want to only grep spanish words, not all words
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2021-07-07 09:03:46	B33F_133F	grep has a linit to what it can search for anf does not have the ability to detect languages.  you're better off writing a script to detect the laubguage and stor the findings, to a file.
2021-07-07 09:03:48	Dagmar	That's not happening
2021-07-07 09:04:04	B33F_133F	limit even *
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2021-07-07 09:04:21	Dagmar	_People_ can't reliably tell the difference between words in one languge and homonyms from another.
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2021-07-07 09:04:25	Dagmar	You're not getting a computer to do it.
2021-07-07 09:04:57	B33F_133F	not perfectly, at least
2021-07-07 09:06:09	geirha	grep -Fwf file-with-one-spanish-word-per-line.txt ./*.py
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2021-07-07 09:06:56	B33F_133F	again... grep has a limit to what it can search for.
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2021-07-07 09:07:22	B33F_133F	providing it a list of every word, is not a viable option.
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2021-07-07 09:08:21	hodapp	if an approximate solution is okay, it's likely not hard to find a Spanish word list in a text file.
2021-07-07 09:08:37	hodapp	including inflected forms.
2021-07-07 09:08:52	omero	I am curious... what limit has grep?
2021-07-07 09:09:05	Dagmar	It can only solve tractable problems.
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2021-07-07 09:10:47	omero	there are dictionaries for almost all known languages... and grep -f <pattern file> you could achieve just that
2021-07-07 09:11:41	Dagmar	There are homonyms shared in almost every language, particulary those that use similar alphabets
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2021-07-07 09:11:46	B33F_133F	Looking into the limitation I referenced, I found that I was thinking of a bash limitation.  So -f should be fine.
2021-07-07 09:11:48	Dagmar	Example: dice
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2021-07-07 09:12:18	 *	Psi-Jack rolls the dice.
2021-07-07 09:12:24	omero	yes. -f does bypass the shell limit
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2021-07-07 09:12:45	geirha	If you're thinking of the ARG_MAX limit, that's an os limit, not bash
2021-07-07 09:12:51	yogoyo	what if you search only in variable names?
2021-07-07 09:12:55	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: It's pronounced 'dee-say'
2021-07-07 09:12:57	Shaun	most non-trivial english corpus would get hits in a french word-list
2021-07-07 09:13:07	omero	the real limit would be RAM
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2021-07-07 09:13:37	freeman_h	Kyv, lol
2021-07-07 09:13:56	hodapp	kieto: is some level of inaccuracy okay in this?
2021-07-07 09:14:14	Psi-Jack	Nah, dīs :)
2021-07-07 09:14:17	hodapp	and am I right in guessing that you're trying to identify strings in Python source that require translation?
2021-07-07 09:15:04	omero	If I recall correctly jack-the-ripper used dictionaries in bruteforce cracking /etc/shadow
2021-07-07 09:15:34	Shaun	cracking has a right and wrong answer though, that’s easy.  asking grep whether the word “possible” is english or french?
2021-07-07 09:15:41	backleet	can someone explain to me how pam-gnupg works? where would my gpg password woud be stored? Does it mean my login password and gpg password has to be the same for it to work?
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2021-07-07 09:16:21	omero	ah, ok Shaun ... finally a concrete example... but uhm.. best guess?
2021-07-07 09:16:30	omero	depending on context I mean...
2021-07-07 09:16:35	kieto	hodapp: yes
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2021-07-07 09:17:01	hodapp	kieto: yes to both?
2021-07-07 09:17:17	kieto	hodapp: correct :)
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2021-07-07 09:17:39	kieto	geirha: yes, that's what I'm trying to run, I'm only missing the txt file :P
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2021-07-07 09:18:38	omero	you mean a dictionary file of spanish?
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2021-07-07 09:19:41	geirha	looking at an ubuntu system here, there's a dictionary of american words installed by the wamerican package, and I see an equivalent wspanish package
2021-07-07 09:19:56	omero	http://www.gwicks.net/dictionaries.htm << kieto ?
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2021-07-07 09:20:39	yogoyo	wait for hodapp, they might be working on a clever solution
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2021-07-07 09:21:30	hodapp	ehh?
2021-07-07 09:21:41	yogoyo	nevermind :P
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2021-07-07 09:22:01	omero	seems that was a no-can-do lol
2021-07-07 09:22:06	kieto	omero: thanks!
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2021-07-07 09:22:14	kieto	ewwwww: [1]    34985 killed     grep --color=auto -rin --include=\*.py -f ~/Downloads/espanol.txt .
2021-07-07 09:22:26	hodapp	yeah, what omero and geirha proposed looks fine, no clever solution from me needed :P
2021-07-07 09:22:41	hodapp	kieto: might have to split dictionary into N pieces and do N runs of grep
2021-07-07 09:22:48	geirha	I really think you'll want -F and -w
2021-07-07 09:22:56	kieto	yes, I'll do that
2021-07-07 09:23:01	kieto	thanks geirha
2021-07-07 09:23:03	hodapp	perhaps with line numbers and such so that you can sort the N runs together later
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2021-07-07 09:23:30	omero	ahm you can also 'split' the large dictionaries in chunks, thus you wont fry you RAM
2021-07-07 09:24:05	omero	say, chunks of some 10k words at a time?
2021-07-07 09:24:50	Dagmar	Complainign that it catches many English words is not allowed
2021-07-07 09:24:57	omero	not sure if feeding poor grep with 208,000 words at once is a Good Thing(TM)
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2021-07-07 09:25:37	hodapp	and the award for missing the point goes to......
2021-07-07 09:25:56	 *	omero holds breath
2021-07-07 09:26:03	hodapp	omero: well, still a lot less memory usage than 208K regexps
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2021-07-07 09:26:30	omero	ah, I wasnt being nominated for the award?
2021-07-07 09:26:33	hodapp	nope
2021-07-07 09:26:36	omero	lol
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2021-07-07 09:28:20	geirha	I looked at that espanol.txt file from that url earlier. Only has 178k words. Shouldn't require that much memory; at least not when using -F. However, it contained an empty line, which you definitely don't want, as that will cause grep to match every single line
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2021-07-07 09:28:54	omero	yeah sorry the 208K was referring to the french dictionary
2021-07-07 09:29:13	hodapp	doesn't count, French isn't even a real language
2021-07-07 09:29:30	omero	gee italian only contains 80w words?!
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2021-07-07 09:29:43	Dagmar	THey can only handle knowing so many words
2021-07-07 09:29:50	omero	and thus WWIII was started
2021-07-07 09:29:58	Dagmar	The rest of their communication has to happen through hand gestures around the chin area
2021-07-07 09:29:59	hodapp	has Italian more inflected forms, perhaps?
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2021-07-07 09:30:45	omero	no clue. I know at most 1k words maybe
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2021-07-07 09:30:53	omero	mostly dirty words of course
2021-07-07 09:31:00	hodapp	I counted once and I think I only know ~50 or something
2021-07-07 09:31:17	hodapp	47 if you forget "a", "an", and "the"
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2021-07-07 09:31:35	omero	and f?
2021-07-07 09:31:42	hodapp	sorry don't know that word
2021-07-07 09:31:48	omero	LIAR!
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2021-07-07 09:32:06	hodapp	sorry not that one either
2021-07-07 09:32:18	 *	omero giggles
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2021-07-07 09:33:06	jim	everyone should relax and breathe
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2021-07-07 09:34:30	kieto	I've split the espanol.txt file with `split -l 10000 espanol.txt` and did this: https://bpa.st/LDGQ
2021-07-07 09:34:37	kieto	it works :D
2021-07-07 09:34:45	kieto	thank you all!
2021-07-07 09:34:49	omero	\o/
2021-07-07 09:34:54	hodapp	good!
2021-07-07 09:35:01	geirha	you also removed the empty line(s)?
2021-07-07 09:35:21	hodapp	wouldn't this mess with the order of the returned results though?
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2021-07-07 09:35:39	geirha	it sure will
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2021-07-07 09:36:09	omero	c'mon... its a start :)
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2021-07-07 09:37:01	Dagmar	It's not _your_ grade, so I wouldn't worry about it too much
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2021-07-07 09:37:42	hodapp	you already got a 0 for not even being able to read the question, so whatever
2021-07-07 09:38:19	Dagmar	I can read the question just fine.  It's a dumb problem.
2021-07-07 09:38:52	geirha	I'm more concerned about the bad practice of adding set -euo pipefail on everything
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2021-07-07 09:39:03	hodapp	aaaand here's why you got a 0
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2021-07-07 09:40:26	hodapp	geirha: er, yeah, I need to look up what that even does...
2021-07-07 09:40:28	hodapp	not familiar
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2021-07-07 09:41:22	kieto	it's funny that you assume this is some school homework :P
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2021-07-07 09:41:32	omero	Dagmar: you know what is a face-centered cubic lattice?
2021-07-07 09:41:37	Dagmar	It's one of those voodoo things Gentoo users paste into everything, sort of like -funroll-loops
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2021-07-07 09:42:30	Dagmar	opero: Being that I'm not a geologist or a crystallographer, the bigger thing is that I don't care.
2021-07-07 09:43:20	Dagmar	kieto: If it's _not_ homework then you should definitely be ashamed for not having _tried_ to solve the problem yourself first
2021-07-07 09:43:28	hodapp	dude, just give up already
2021-07-07 09:43:54	 *	omero facepalms
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2021-07-07 09:44:36	geirha	someone not very knowledgable about bash wrote a blog post about a "unofficial bash strict mode", but it rather just makes your scripts less reliable
2021-07-07 09:45:04	kieto	I always use -euo pipefail to avoid silent failures in the middle, is that not a good idea?
2021-07-07 09:45:23	Dagmar	_Can_ there be silent failures in the middle?
2021-07-07 09:45:36	geirha	kieto: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls#pf60
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2021-07-07 09:46:52	omero	ah, that is not the old Atari game
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2021-07-07 09:47:08	omero	loved Harry Pitfall
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2021-07-07 09:48:14	hexnewbie	#!/usr/bin/env -S CFLAGS='-ffast-math -funroll-all-loops' bash -euxo pipefail
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2021-07-07 09:48:21	omero	mmm... that's good stuff geirha ... one learns something new every day, eh?
2021-07-07 09:48:23	Dagmar	Throwing a solution at something before you know there's an actual problem is just a way to generate new and less interesting problems
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2021-07-07 09:49:25	yogoyo	Douglas Adams said we need good questions not solutions
2021-07-07 09:50:05	skill	ls
2021-07-07 09:50:07	skill	oops
2021-07-07 09:50:32	omero	infact it took the best of 400 years of applied math to prove that the solution put forward by kepler in 1611 was indeed correct
2021-07-07 09:50:33	hexnewbie	Typing 'ls' in IRC should invoke /exec sl
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2021-07-07 09:51:27	omero	(the original problem was about how to pack efficiently things in a 3D format)
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2021-07-07 09:52:12	yogoyo	was keppler married? maybe the success of his work was done by her?
2021-07-07 09:52:34	omero	seems trivial, and one can intuitively _know_ the solution just works... but to prove the solution to be 100% correct is another story
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2021-07-07 09:53:54	omero	he married twice if I recall correctly yes yogoyo
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2021-07-07 09:54:43	omero	and he apparently had also other interests beside planets and stars
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2021-07-07 09:55:02	omero	thus not a total nerd :P
2021-07-07 09:56:00	omero	I could tell a joke about kepler and galileo galilei... but it would only make sense in italian :)
2021-07-07 09:56:19	Dagmar	If your'e trying to imply that was similar to a highly complex topology problem, it's not.
2021-07-07 09:58:49	omero	|2021-07-07+15:39:17|     omero)) Dagmar: you know what is a face-centered cubic lattice? << is that a highly complex topology problem?
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2021-07-07 09:59:00	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-07-07 09:59:07	Dagmar	omero: Is the moon made of rocks or simply compressed powder
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2021-07-07 09:59:25	Dagmar	Do you have _more_ stupid questions you'd like to ask?
2021-07-07 09:59:34	koollman	what are rocks but compressed-enough powder, fused ? :)
2021-07-07 09:59:36	Dagmar	...or would you care to actually make a point.
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2021-07-07 09:59:57	omero	seems moon has some interesting cavities... thus I wouldnt consider the 'compressed dust' hypothesis
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2021-07-07 10:01:59	omero	solid rock geodes would be more close a definition...
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2021-07-07 10:02:23	omero	with a sprinkle of regolith on the surface
2021-07-07 10:03:15	Dagmar	now... use grep to find any non-terrestrial objects on the Moon
2021-07-07 10:03:43	omero	no need... there is a site at NASA.gov that can tell you that...
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2021-07-07 10:04:19	Dagmar	No, they only have a list of things _they've_ put there.
2021-07-07 10:04:26	omero	Im not sure it considers _every_ single thing but surely it accounts for many impacts... non-terrestrial
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2021-07-07 10:06:27	omero	ah, geirha ... thus with grep that set -euo pipefail is _especially_ bad!
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2021-07-07 10:06:56	omero	or quite pointless in any case
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2021-07-07 10:13:46	Dagmar	To make it clear, ya'll couldn't even see the problems with the propsed technical solution
2021-07-07 10:14:13	Dagmar	The _source_ material is likely very small compared to any given dictionary (this is usually the case with similar searches)
2021-07-07 10:14:40	Dagmar	The sensible solution is to just get the list of uniq words _there_ (which might be a dizzying 1000 or so)
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2021-07-07 10:14:54	Dagmar	...and search the dictionary files for those words, not the other way around.
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2021-07-07 10:15:36	Dagmar	A union set doesn't really change if A and B are swapped.
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2021-07-07 10:16:56	BluesKaj	Hi all
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2021-07-07 10:17:04	blackgatonegro	Hello People
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2021-07-07 10:31:07	Netham45	I have a trackball mouse that doesn't have a scroll wheel, is there a good way to get holding a button to make moving the mouse act as a scroll wheel?
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2021-07-07 10:32:24	Dagmar	Not really, since the scroll wheel is _actually_ a pair of button inputs
2021-07-07 10:32:37	peetaur	Netham45: in KDE there is something like that I think ... not sure if I imagined it or not
2021-07-07 10:32:40	backleet	has anyone found good local bookmarking app? I've tried buku, although it's alright, I am not fully satisfied
2021-07-07 10:32:40	Dagmar	It only behaves like a continuous range selector because X treats it that way
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2021-07-07 10:32:50	peetaur	or maybe it was an addon
2021-07-07 10:33:00	Dagmar	You'll literally need a separate program for that kind of behavioural change
2021-07-07 10:33:09	matsaman	Netham45: do you have a middle button at all?
2021-07-07 10:33:27	Netham45	It's got 4 buttons, I can assign one to be middle click with xinput
2021-07-07 10:33:42	matsaman	backleet: like, an app that keeps a text list of URIs? =P
2021-07-07 10:33:51	Netham45	Right now I have one set to scroll up and one to scroll down, and l+r acting as middle
2021-07-07 10:34:03	matsaman	Netham45: various browsers support something usually referred to as 'autoscroll' which is about as useful as middle-wheel scrolling
2021-07-07 10:34:08	backleet	matsaman: something like that lol
2021-07-07 10:34:28	freeman_h	ananke, are you still around?
2021-07-07 10:34:28	matsaman	I'm sure you could hack together emulation for the exact thing, but
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2021-07-07 10:34:43	Dagmar	matsaman: Hence, external program
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2021-07-07 10:34:59	matsaman	Dagmar: quite possibly
2021-07-07 10:35:08	Dagmar	It would be easier if scroll wheels actually were continous range like the pointer itself
2021-07-07 10:35:10	matsaman	Netham45: but, trackball mice with normal middle button/scrollwheels exist
2021-07-07 10:35:16	matsaman	you should probably drop the massive $30 on one of those
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2021-07-07 10:35:46	ananke	freeman_h: maybe
2021-07-07 10:36:05	ananke	freeman_h: just ask the question, somebody may answer
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2021-07-07 10:37:54	Netham45	matsaman, but I just spent like $2 on this at a thrift store
2021-07-07 10:38:00	Netham45	:P
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2021-07-07 10:38:15	Netham45	Had a broken cable I had to fix too. >.>
2021-07-07 10:38:29	matsaman	=P
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2021-07-07 10:38:53	matsaman	at a certain point the power required to generate the calories that power your own body
2021-07-07 10:39:07	matsaman	becomes greater than the power spent on making and wasting a broken mouse
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2021-07-07 10:39:21	matsaman	and you end up wasting both the original power and your additionally provided power
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2021-07-07 10:39:44	matsaman	and the entire universe steps closer, again, to ending
2021-07-07 10:39:51	matsaman	over a broken mouse =)
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2021-07-07 10:39:58	Netham45	It probably took me less than 5 minutes to fix the mouse so my entropic contribution was minimal.
2021-07-07 10:40:02	matsaman	but in general, sure, fixing things is better than tossing them
2021-07-07 10:40:08	matsaman	Netham45: okay =)
2021-07-07 10:40:18	matsaman	find another broken mouse with a mousewheel
2021-07-07 10:40:24	matsaman	and hack it into the first mouse
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2021-07-07 10:40:27	matsaman	like a mad scientist
2021-07-07 10:40:32	peetaur	heh I'd never buy a thrift store mouse... I'd just get a cheapo $20 mouse (but these kinds of mice need the buttons cleaned and retensioned every few years ...which wastes more than $20 worth of time probably)
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2021-07-07 10:40:59	Netham45	Honestly I was expecting the mouse itself to be able to have the trackball act as a scroll wheel through a programmable button when I bought it
2021-07-07 10:41:03	Dagmar	I buy decent mice and throw them away every 6-8 years
2021-07-07 10:41:19	matsaman	I throw mice away when they break, which is hardly ever
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2021-07-07 10:41:31	PaulFertser	omero: secondary address is probably from enabling privacy extensions, that's good.
2021-07-07 10:41:50	Netham45	I seem to have the buttons on most of my mice start to go mushy after 5 or so years
2021-07-07 10:42:01	euouae	Mushy?
2021-07-07 10:42:05	matsaman	Netham45: I'm sure you can manage that
2021-07-07 10:42:19	euouae	Move out of the  ocean floor
2021-07-07 10:42:23	peetaur	matsaman: I replaced mine and my wife's mouse once (so went through 2 each) since around 2009
2021-07-07 10:42:30	peetaur	matsaman: how often do you replace them?
2021-07-07 10:42:45	matsaman	I think I still have a mouse from more than a decade ago
2021-07-07 10:42:46	Netham45	euouae, yea, don't give good feedback on click, start to miss maybe 1/100 clicks
2021-07-07 10:42:51	matsaman	it works fine
2021-07-07 10:42:59	matsaman	cheapest logitech I could find, their base model
2021-07-07 10:43:10	matsaman	I had to order it from online because BestBuy only carried really expensive tosspot mice
2021-07-07 10:43:37	matsaman	the technology hasn't changed, it's a plain optical mouse, just like they still make
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2021-07-07 10:44:44	PaulFertser	jim: thank you, noticed; I agree "contradicting" to TJ- was my mistake, I should have added rather than correct. Purely a stylistic issue but I can imagine how some people can be sensitive to that. I'll try to keep that in mind the next time, but I also have to note "thick-skinned" people (those who can calmly ignore even an occassional offence) benefit from IRC more.
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2021-07-07 10:44:57	byte4byte	jim we want to learn python
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2021-07-07 10:45:33	Dagmar	matsaman: REal hax0rs use lazor mice now
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2021-07-07 10:46:15	Dagmar	...which is actually not such a bad deal since said laser mice can accurately read across zebra-print mousepads and transparent glass desktops.
2021-07-07 10:46:53	Netham45	This trackball mouse I have has an optical sensor to read the ball movement
2021-07-07 10:47:15	rindolf	byte4byte: see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#i-want-to-learn-programming-which-language-should-i-start-with
2021-07-07 10:47:17	Netham45	Which is part of the reason I expected it to support scrolling by itself
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2021-07-07 10:47:59	Dagmar	Well, again, that's actually not how mousewheels work
2021-07-07 10:48:19	Dagmar	The ball part returns angle and velocity
2021-07-07 10:48:29	Dagmar	The mousewheels are just buttons 4 & 5
2021-07-07 10:48:29	Netham45	I expected the mouse to have a built-in way to translate that to scrolling.
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2021-07-07 10:48:34	blackgatonegro	For Kids: A term that tells you something is (usually) a scam and or stealing data, despite the fact data collection laws may or not allow that in your country.
2021-07-07 10:48:40	matsaman	Dagmar: yeah but, why would I have a transparent desktop
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2021-07-07 10:48:50	matsaman	and if I did have one, why would I want lasers going through it
2021-07-07 10:49:06	Dagmar	matsaman: I dunno.  Some of these graphic artist types are really into badly designed desks
2021-07-07 10:49:17	matsaman	Dagmar: no kidding =P
2021-07-07 10:49:28	Netham45	I could maybe see a glass desk cover interfering with an optical mouse
2021-07-07 10:49:34	Netham45	Though I don't think I've ever encountered that
2021-07-07 10:49:37	matsaman	the last person with "designer" in their title I encountered also knew nothing about ... well actually anything at all
2021-07-07 10:49:53	miko	pfft, imagine using a mouse
2021-07-07 10:49:56	matsaman	bought himself a fancy new house that ended up being made entirely out of MDF
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2021-07-07 10:50:21	Netham45	a MDF mouse sounds gross
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2021-07-07 10:50:36	blackgatonegro	Netham45 that's what the wooden mousepad  is for.
2021-07-07 10:50:37	Netham45	Like anything stuck to your hand would cling to it
2021-07-07 10:50:59	blackgatonegro	Eh glass desks are horrible
2021-07-07 10:51:05	ZenixOwler	question, is there any particular why some choose to zip things in the format of .zip, the others choose .tar and also other choose .tar.gz, tar.xz and so on ? to me eventually, they can all be storing the same content, is there anything that differs them
2021-07-07 10:51:07	matsaman	byte4byte: #python's /topic has a great book for learning python
2021-07-07 10:51:15	matsaman	byte4byte: it's also listed at rindolf's link, but as some kind of weird mirror
2021-07-07 10:51:16	 *	Psi-Jack pets his darkfield laser mouse.
2021-07-07 10:51:28	freeman_h	Hi guys, I created a new .ssh key using ssh-gen. In my ubuntu 20 linux server. This created 2 new files called rob_moore and rob_moore.pub. After I added the public key using rob_moore fxcanli.pub >> authorized_keys I ran cat rob_moore I then copy the ssh key to my local machine. However when I try to ssh using the new key i get invalid format
2021-07-07 10:51:29	ananke	ZenixOwler: personal preference, habit
2021-07-07 10:51:33	blackgatonegro	Know for experience. You waste 10% of the time on the desk  cleaning it.
2021-07-07 10:51:43	miko	ZenixOwler: yup; compression ratios and stuff
2021-07-07 10:51:55	miko	though .tar by itself isn't compressed at all
2021-07-07 10:52:02	blackgatonegro	ZenixOwler compatibility, space and convenience.
2021-07-07 10:52:18	freeman_h	when i use puttygen putty can understand it no issue
2021-07-07 10:52:50	euouae	Why is sudo a security feature?
2021-07-07 10:52:55	ananke	freeman_h: check checksums of your private key, compare between your server and client
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2021-07-07 10:53:05	miko	euouae: because running everything as root is silly
2021-07-07 10:53:16	ananke	euouae: because it provides means for granural access controls
2021-07-07 10:53:21	Dagmar	freeman_h: Use ssh-copy-id already
2021-07-07 10:53:33	ZenixOwler	miko: so you mean that there are some extensions which make the file lighter or some sort maybe ?
2021-07-07 10:53:34	euouae	Granular access controls? What do you mean ?
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2021-07-07 10:53:48	euouae	As in, single command run as root?
2021-07-07 10:53:49	Dagmar	freeman_h: Putty's keys are in the wrong format for openssh to do anything with
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2021-07-07 10:53:57	freeman_h	Dagmar, to copy from my server to my pc?
2021-07-07 10:53:59	ananke	euouae: you can provide user X to run command Y as user Z
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2021-07-07 10:54:07	ananke	euouae: s/provide/allow
2021-07-07 10:54:17	ZenixOwler	euouae: well, sudo itself isn't a security issue unless you run everything as root
2021-07-07 10:54:22	euouae	Is sudo that general ?
2021-07-07 10:54:24	miko	ZenixOwler: yeah; xz, for example, provides significantly better compression than, say, gzip
2021-07-07 10:54:26	Dagmar	freeman_h: If you can't figure out how to copy a single line from one file to another, you better _hope_ there's a tool that can do it for you
2021-07-07 10:54:34	ananke	euouae: how is this 'general'?
2021-07-07 10:55:16	ZenixOwler	euouae: also sudo has cache, so if you run one command as root and within 15 minutes later, someone sends you another command which requires sudo, that second command won't be needing the password
2021-07-07 10:55:22	ZenixOwler	euouae: now imagine if it's malicious
2021-07-07 10:55:25	blackgatonegro	euouae it isn't, a feature that is.
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2021-07-07 10:55:58	Dagmar	freeman_h: To make it explicit, an ssh public key in the format openssh needs will be _one line long, only_
2021-07-07 10:56:02	euouae	Isn’t sudo just for root ?
2021-07-07 10:56:06	miko	ZenixOwler: that's why you should never run commands that you don't understand
2021-07-07 10:56:14	blackgatonegro	ZenixOwler zip runs on everything. some compressions formats make smaller files and so on.
2021-07-07 10:56:14	ananke	euouae: what do you mean 'just for root'?
2021-07-07 10:56:16	Dagmar	freeman_h: If you have anything longer than one line per key in there, you've done it wrong.
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2021-07-07 10:56:26	ZenixOwler	miko: i always run command that i don't understand in my Virtualmachine :P
2021-07-07 10:56:27	matsaman	euouae: no it's for what 'su' does, but more restrictedly
2021-07-07 10:56:34	euouae	Gotcha
2021-07-07 10:56:47	ZenixOwler	euouae: nya, sudo is used to give one user the permission to run something as root
2021-07-07 10:56:47	matsaman	euouae: a lot of distros abuse it 'just for root', though, for sure
2021-07-07 10:56:50	ananke	euouae: it's like you completely ignored when I said 'allow user X to run command Y as user Z'
2021-07-07 10:56:57	euouae	I did not
2021-07-07 10:57:01	miko	ZenixOwler: i recommend that you learn what a command actually does before running it
2021-07-07 10:57:07	miko	but hey, you do you
2021-07-07 10:57:11	euouae	I wasn’t sure if you were taking about sudo or explaining
2021-07-07 10:57:30	ZenixOwler	well of course, but i still wanna run destructive commands in virtual machines anyway :P
2021-07-07 10:57:34	ananke	euouae: I was explaining how sudo can be used
2021-07-07 10:57:42	euouae	Ananke, chill
2021-07-07 10:57:48	ananke	euouae: say what?
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2021-07-07 10:58:17	ananke	ZenixOwler: destination user doesn't have to be root. it can be another user
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2021-07-07 10:58:37	Psi-Jack	ZenixOwler: Yeah, I was about to say, sudo isn't about root. It's controlled and targettable, unlike su.
2021-07-07 10:58:47	ZenixOwler	ananke: well but most of the cases it's root, so i think he refered to that
2021-07-07 10:58:53	Psi-Jack	su can target, but not really be controlled so well. ;)
2021-07-07 10:58:54	ZenixOwler	or you can just use the -u flag
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2021-07-07 10:59:04	Psi-Jack	ZenixOwler: No, not even in most cases. That really depends.
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2021-07-07 10:59:17	ZenixOwler	most typical installations does that by default tho
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2021-07-07 10:59:44	Dagmar	Probably 99% of the people using sudo use it like a hand grenade
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2021-07-07 11:00:18	blackgatonegro	Dagmar I blame Ubuntu.
2021-07-07 11:00:24	Dagmar	They pull the pin and throw it, it makes the required loud noise.  Everything else is someone else's problem.
2021-07-07 11:00:31	ZenixOwler	well i blame it on the Linux memes instead
2021-07-07 11:00:43	drip	personally i strap c4 on myself and login as root and do all my work from there
2021-07-07 11:00:45	miko	Dagmar: eh, more like 50% of users; most people that have actually used *nix for an extended period of time actually know what they're doing
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2021-07-07 11:01:00	Dagmar	miko: You vastly underestimate the number of idiots running Ubuntu
2021-07-07 11:01:32	miko	Dagmar: most of those "idiots" will stop using it within a month if they're actually not interested in learning
2021-07-07 11:01:37	matsaman	it's not just Ubuntu, either, of course
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2021-07-07 11:01:42	renard	switch to suicide linux
2021-07-07 11:01:49	matsaman	it's very popular to instituitionally abuse sudo by default in many distros these days
2021-07-07 11:02:10	euouae	I’ve used Ubuntu for 10+ years and still clueless
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2021-07-07 11:06:13	matsaman	euouae: somethin' somethin' ignorance and bliss =)
2021-07-07 11:06:33	matsaman	if you can find this network and ask questions, you're probably in the 1% of least useless humans in the world, TBH
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2021-07-07 11:07:25	matsaman	I mean, if you can accept some of the information provided in response to your questions, at least =) which obviously you can
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2021-07-07 11:09:09	euouae	Doesn’t make me feel good but ok
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2021-07-07 11:10:59	matsaman	why not? Definitely meant as a compliment
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2021-07-07 11:11:15	peetaur	because it's a compliment to those here, and an insult to the rest
2021-07-07 11:11:32	peetaur	"least useless" isn't the most positive term to use
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2021-07-07 11:11:54	BluesKaj	euouae, this chat can be intimdating at times , but don't let that stop you from enjoying Linux
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2021-07-07 11:12:04	matsaman	if your rating system isn't based on least awfulness, then you are overrating a lot of things =)
2021-07-07 11:12:17	Dagmar	As long as you've been vaccinated we promise not to eat you
2021-07-07 11:12:24	peetaur	my rating system is just about cost/benefit
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2021-07-07 11:12:45	webstrand	is there another program like `setsid` that just does `setpgid`? I need to run a process that spawns a bunch of subprocesses, but don't want SIGINT from my tty sent to all of the subprocesses, just the parent
2021-07-07 11:12:47	matsaman	Dagmar: intriguing =)
2021-07-07 11:13:00	peetaur	Dagmar does not speak for me... it's probably safer to eat unvaccinated
2021-07-07 11:13:04	matsaman	so we eat the unvaccinated? Sounds unsanitary
2021-07-07 11:13:06	peetaur	(but I'd eat neither)
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2021-07-07 11:13:20	matsaman	I mean coronavirus is transmitted by fluid, so
2021-07-07 11:13:21	Dagmar	Well, it's fine as long as the meat is thoroughly cooked
2021-07-07 11:13:27	matsaman	true true
2021-07-07 11:13:33	webstrand	`setsid -w myproc` doesn't forward SIGINT to `myproc`, which is something that I need.
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2021-07-07 11:13:43	peetaur	unvaccinated has a chance of being organically grown
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2021-07-07 11:15:27	elderbear	The vaccinated feed won't be on for long, this Sept. will begin their culling and live #'s will be falling quickly...
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2021-07-07 11:17:18	Dagmar	elderbear: I'm saying November
2021-07-07 11:17:53	matsaman	I'm just saying that the next USA civil war will be far more hilariously balanced to one side than the last one
2021-07-07 11:17:53	Dagmar	Granted, I haven't done the full statistical analysis I did last year, but it'll probably closer to teh end of the year than just September before it's got a good head of steam again
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2021-07-07 11:17:57	matsaman	and the last one was already
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2021-07-07 11:18:16	Dagmar	I'm totes fine with just letting all the dumb die of COVID
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2021-07-07 11:19:50	Dagmar	We know how The Jackpot plays out.  Gibson has shown us.
2021-07-07 11:19:58	matsaman	I mean, they say our rampant population growth has slowed, but we still have way too many people than we should
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2021-07-07 11:20:56	elderbear	Dagmar: VAERS says more have already died from the killer injections than from the virus
2021-07-07 11:21:02	matsaman	Dagmar: that good? So far out of two (! :p) Gibson books I've read I still only really enjoyed Neuromancer
2021-07-07 11:21:12	<--	teddydd (~teddydd@user/teddydd) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 11:21:22	matsaman	specifically I was having trouble waiting for Pattern Recognition to get interesting
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2021-07-07 11:21:40	matsaman	elderbear: rofl, no
2021-07-07 11:21:46	matsaman	unless vaers is some dummy organization
2021-07-07 11:21:57	euouae	Web strand, you want your process to receive sigint?
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2021-07-07 11:22:06	Dagmar	elberbear: Again, I totally don't mind if stupid people die.  Particularly the ones that spread misinformation
2021-07-07 11:22:37	euouae	Easy there
2021-07-07 11:22:41	<--	nekonibble (~nekonibbl@user/nekobit) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 11:22:45	euouae	Everyone is susceptible to stupidity
2021-07-07 11:22:49	matsaman	I mean there are two types of stupid
2021-07-07 11:22:49	Dagmar	matsaman: Well, "good" and "bad" don't really figure into it.  In the last one he literally outlined more or less exactly what was going on today from the standpoint of it being an event in the past
2021-07-07 11:23:01	matsaman	the kind that talks a lot about what they know for certain and the kind that doesn't
2021-07-07 11:23:12	euouae	No need to hate on victims of misinfo warfare
2021-07-07 11:23:13	elderbear	Dagmar: I can't wait to hear your tune in a couple months...
2021-07-07 11:23:22	matsaman	this is perhaps _wisdom_ vs _smartness_
2021-07-07 11:23:28	matsaman	you can be stupid but wise
2021-07-07 11:23:32	matsaman	(enough to stfu)
2021-07-07 11:23:35	Dagmar	elderbear: My "tune" has been the same throughout this entire thing.  People ignoring science are dumb.
2021-07-07 11:23:45	matsaman	euouae: I mean a lot of them vote for hate, so...
2021-07-07 11:23:47	Dagmar	I am no longer interested in coddling said morons.
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2021-07-07 11:23:58	XenoProteins	Trump won
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2021-07-07 11:24:09	XenoProteins	Trump is a very stable genius
2021-07-07 11:24:11	matsaman	XenoProteins: in 2016? And Russia helped
2021-07-07 11:24:13	matsaman	heheheheh
2021-07-07 11:24:19	euouae	Matsaman are you talking about R? It’s not hate
2021-07-07 11:24:19	<--	remyabel (remyabel@user/remyabel) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 11:24:25	matsaman	euouae: [R]? =)
2021-07-07 11:24:28	XenoProteins	in both 2016, and 2020
2021-07-07 11:24:31	euouae	No no here
2021-07-07 11:24:36	Dagmar	At this point, you'd need to use a German word
2021-07-07 11:24:39	matsaman	euouae: republicanism? It's more hate these days than anything else
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2021-07-07 11:24:46	euouae	Xenoproteins, don’t be ridiculous
2021-07-07 11:24:49	XenoProteins	Ubermench, Trump is an Ubermench
2021-07-07 11:24:49	elderbear	Dagmar: this is an experiment and the trial ends in 2024...you lab rats won't make it that long, intentionally, knowingly
2021-07-07 11:24:52	XenoProteins	Im being real
2021-07-07 11:24:53	matsaman	I'm sure there are a literal handful of republicans who believe in low taxes somewhere
2021-07-07 11:25:01	matsaman	but most believe in something else above that
2021-07-07 11:25:07	euouae	Matsaman, can you even name all senators?
2021-07-07 11:25:10	XenoProteins	Joe Biden had election fraud, paper ballots printed, voting machiene hacked
2021-07-07 11:25:12	matsaman	euouae: sure
2021-07-07 11:25:14	goddard	any potential down side when using sudo -E
2021-07-07 11:25:16	Dagmar	elderbear: Don't waste your time trying to spew conspiracy stupidity
2021-07-07 11:25:23	matsaman	XenoProteins: sure sure =P
2021-07-07 11:25:25	XenoProteins	It's true
2021-07-07 11:25:27	<--	hrtk (~hritik@110.225.113.71) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-07 11:25:40	euouae	Matsaman really? How can you consider r hateful if you can do that ?
2021-07-07 11:25:46	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: even if you discount direct electoral fraud, the interference by Big Tech means it wasn't a fair election
2021-07-07 11:25:50	peetaur	XenoProteins: why are you stating the obvious?
2021-07-07 11:25:52	elderbear	Dagmar: you sounds scared and you should be...
2021-07-07 11:25:53	beltwaybob	You literally had people being censored for stating politicla opinions
2021-07-07 11:25:58	matsaman	goddard: from a security perspective, I don't see how
2021-07-07 11:25:59	XenoProteins	right beltway
2021-07-07 11:26:08	matsaman	goddard: things might not work the way you want
2021-07-07 11:26:10	Dagmar	So many chronically dumb going into the ignore list today
2021-07-07 11:26:15	goddard	matsaman i was just thinking maybe mess up some config or something
2021-07-07 11:26:20	beltwaybob	The idea of an election isn't that the phone company listens to calls and cuts them if 'the other guy' is being talked about
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2021-07-07 11:26:25	elderbear	Dagmar: there's no reversing your choice, you will die with it...
2021-07-07 11:26:25	matsaman	euouae: how can I consider republicans hateful if I can list all senators?
2021-07-07 11:26:25	goddard	guess mainly for neovim its good
2021-07-07 11:26:41	matsaman	goddard: a config that relies on your env vars?
2021-07-07 11:26:51	XenoProteins	lol the lizard elite run the repos and dems
2021-07-07 11:26:52	euouae	Matsaman, right there’s I’m assuming also familiarity with their work ?
2021-07-07 11:27:10	euouae	Xenoprotein stop with the craziness
2021-07-07 11:27:19	XenoProteins	its true
2021-07-07 11:27:19	omero	|2021-07-07+16:39:16| PaulFerts)) omero: secondary address is probably from enabling privacy extensions, that's good. << that probably happened when I 'pkill -TERM pppd' and restarted from scratch... yes...
2021-07-07 11:27:21	euouae	You’re crazy
2021-07-07 11:27:23	XenoProteins	the parties are unified
2021-07-07 11:27:27	euouae	You’re crazy
2021-07-07 11:27:28	XenoProteins	Im not crazy
2021-07-07 11:27:33	Dagmar	We should discuss the _real_ threat to humanity
2021-07-07 11:27:34	euouae	Yeah but you are
2021-07-07 11:27:37	matsaman	euouae: yes, hence the assertion about hate
2021-07-07 11:27:37	XenoProteins	Im right
2021-07-07 11:27:39	XenoProteins	Im not crazy
2021-07-07 11:27:41	drip	hes just trolling, its also offtopic, im wondering why its been going on this long
2021-07-07 11:27:42	Dagmar	That is, "CoPilot"
2021-07-07 11:27:46	elderbear	Dagmar: you are a transhuman and your pharma company owns you now...
2021-07-07 11:27:47	peetaur	euouae: when people speak of shape shifting reptilians, they are ridiculing the crazy, not being crazy
2021-07-07 11:27:48	euouae	You’re crazy for sure
2021-07-07 11:27:57	XenoProteins	The parties are unified under a funder base calld the rothschilds
2021-07-07 11:28:00	XenoProteins	Im 100% correct
2021-07-07 11:28:07	euouae	You’re crazy
2021-07-07 11:28:13	Dagmar	If you're going to make an AI to help with coding, perhaps training it on the largest public repository of s**tcode is not a good way to start.
2021-07-07 11:28:14	XenoProteins	They pretend to argue so the public is distracted
2021-07-07 11:28:20	XenoProteins	fuck off jew shill euouae,
2021-07-07 11:28:24	euouae	You’re crazy
2021-07-07 11:28:29	XenoProteins	Fuck off kike worshiper
2021-07-07 11:28:36	euouae	You’re crazy
2021-07-07 11:28:37	XenoProteins	Im jewish but your a goyim
2021-07-07 11:28:48	omero	PaulFertser: I am still clueless what did the magic tho... after we stopped our 'little talk' ... I went on to search for clues... and suddenly I noticed that something was happening (tcpdump, still running)
2021-07-07 11:28:54	ananke	!ops XenoProteins getting wee bit out of hand
2021-07-07 11:29:02	XenoProteins	9/11 was allowed to happen to authorize mass surveillience
2021-07-07 11:29:04	jessicara	you again
2021-07-07 11:29:08	matsaman	software is choosing your apostrophes for you
2021-07-07 11:29:11	matsaman	but _we_ are the crazy ones?
2021-07-07 11:29:17	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: That is where you are wrong, talking about lizard elite and rothschilds
2021-07-07 11:29:23	XenoProteins	Thats true
2021-07-07 11:29:26	niko	hey, could you please calm down
2021-07-07 11:29:26	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: It's a conspiracy of middle managers---the ultra rich are just on for the ride
2021-07-07 11:29:31	matsaman	niko: NOU!
2021-07-07 11:29:36	XenoProteins	Rothschilds run both parties
2021-07-07 11:29:46	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: Nah, the system is run by middle managers making 50-300k a year
2021-07-07 11:29:54	XenoProteins	Its far beyond that
2021-07-07 11:29:55	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: They're the ones who should be swung from lamp-posts
2021-07-07 11:29:55	matsaman	XenoProteins: rich people influence both
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2021-07-07 11:30:02	Dagmar	matsaman: Oh you think I'm joking?
2021-07-07 11:30:05	matsaman	but in the end voters run the government
2021-07-07 11:30:07	omero	I am now very curious to understand exactly what made it work, but Im quite 100% sure that it wast due to something I did... the magic happened after like 1h+ after I stopped doing wild things...
2021-07-07 11:30:09	XenoProteins	There is a global sterilization agenda
2021-07-07 11:30:10	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: But it's a LOT harder to want to execute Betty the County COmmissioner who lives next door than some rich person
2021-07-07 11:30:10	matsaman	and there aren't two parties only, not in the USA
2021-07-07 11:30:22	matsaman	Dagmar: nope
2021-07-07 11:30:24	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: But Betty the County COmmissioner is FAR FAR FAR AND AWAY more implicated in the day to day human trafficking, e.g. child registration
2021-07-07 11:30:27	Dagmar	matsaman: My boss pointed out the The Register article to me this morning
2021-07-07 11:30:28	niko	XenoProteins: this is completely offtopic for this channel
2021-07-07 11:30:29	matsaman	Dagmar: although I forget what you were talking about
2021-07-07 11:30:36	XenoProteins	you guys are either playing dumb or are shills
2021-07-07 11:30:40	euouae	Crazy
2021-07-07 11:30:41	matsaman	Dagmar: which'n?
2021-07-07 11:30:46	XenoProteins	I'm going back to my moon base
2021-07-07 11:30:51	Dagmar	matsaman: There's literally an AI bot that's been trained on _github_ code to "help" with programming
2021-07-07 11:30:59	matsaman	Dagmar: oh, I'm sure there is =)
2021-07-07 11:31:00	matsaman	hahahaha
2021-07-07 11:31:05	XenoProteins	Euouae, I've personally listened to Klaous Schwab and Bill Gates tallk about mass sterilization
2021-07-07 11:31:16	niko	XenoProteins: enough, thanks.
2021-07-07 11:31:19	XenoProteins	euouae is a shill
2021-07-07 11:31:20	Dagmar	It's like no one even remembers what happened to Watson once it got a good snort of 4chan
2021-07-07 11:31:25	matsaman	Dagmar: I remember reports of chatbots ending up similarly stupid back in ye old times
2021-07-07 11:31:30	euouae	You listened but the crazy thinks  for you
2021-07-07 11:31:43	XenoProteins	fuck off
2021-07-07 11:31:56	matsaman	Dagmar: which brings us back to: machine learned vs actual AI =P
2021-07-07 11:31:57	XenoProteins	Joe Biden is was illegitamately elected
2021-07-07 11:31:58	<--	craigevil (craig@user/craigevil) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 11:32:03	matsaman	but also back to: how virtuous are humans really
2021-07-07 11:32:10	omero	PaulFertser: probably not the best timeframe to resume our conversation... lets wait the current storm out ;)
2021-07-07 11:32:17	euouae	Dude you’re crazy and  need hello
2021-07-07 11:32:19	euouae	Help
2021-07-07 11:32:20	matsaman	and should AI be merely as "virtuous" as we
2021-07-07 11:32:21	XenoProteins	fuck off
2021-07-07 11:32:23	drip	euouae: stop feeding the troll
2021-07-07 11:32:25	<--	raryozer (~economyfe@136.49.124.235) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-07-07 11:32:26	XenoProteins	Im sane, and I dont need help
2021-07-07 11:32:29	XenoProteins	And, Im not a troll
2021-07-07 11:32:32	matsaman	drip: honestly
2021-07-07 11:32:33	beltwaybob	Dagmar: it is an interesting problem in AI
2021-07-07 11:32:34	XenoProteins	There an apt phrase here
2021-07-07 11:32:46	matsaman	someone saying "you're crazy" "you're crazy" is pretty trolly
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2021-07-07 11:32:48	Dagmar	matsaman: I don't see it as a matter of 'virtue' so much as I see it being a poor choice of input material
2021-07-07 11:32:48	beltwaybob	Dagmar: IMO it pretty much demolishes the whole "smart people will agree with me about ethics" presuming AI is "smart"
2021-07-07 11:32:50	matsaman	but XenoProteins is obviously playing around
2021-07-07 11:32:54	matsaman	he mentioned a moon base FFS
2021-07-07 11:32:58	XenoProteins	When I'm the only person speaking the truth, everybody else calls you crazy, because I'm the only one with good judgement.
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2021-07-07 11:33:10	matsaman	only a republican would take someone mentioning a moon base seriously
2021-07-07 11:33:12	beltwaybob	Dagmar: The problem with that is that "poor choice" means that you ultimately don't get AI, you get a curated intelligence, the limits of which are a mathematical function of its curation
2021-07-07 11:33:23	matsaman	Dagmar: definitely at least that
2021-07-07 11:33:28	beltwaybob	Dagmar: You can say 'well, this is how we ensure children are intelligent, we censor what they read and see!'
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2021-07-07 11:33:36	matsaman	smart and wise are different
2021-07-07 11:33:39	matsaman	knowledge is not sensibility
2021-07-07 11:33:43	beltwaybob	Dagmar: But this is pretty thin, you just take a folk-conception of censorship/curation and say "of course it doens't work if we don't curate the input!!"
2021-07-07 11:33:47	euouae	You’re attacking democracy for what reason matsaman
2021-07-07 11:33:54	matsaman	even the AI in WarGames knew this =P
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2021-07-07 11:34:06	Dagmar	This is true
2021-07-07 11:34:09	matsaman	euouae: none, because I'm not
2021-07-07 11:34:14	euouae	If R so stupid why Biden attempts to reach?
2021-07-07 11:34:19	drip	dagmar: by what criteria is it bad code?  does it not work?
2021-07-07 11:34:20	matsaman	euouae: reach?
2021-07-07 11:34:25	beltwaybob	Dagmar: Whatever we call it, is it "intelligent" if it has to ask someone else to tell it if reading something is appropriate? it means that questions of propriety will never be algorithmic, more or less
2021-07-07 11:34:30	euouae	The other isle
2021-07-07 11:34:31	XenoProteins	Open Borders is the controlled collapse of america
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2021-07-07 11:34:40	matsaman	aisle
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2021-07-07 11:34:45	Psi-Jack	Perhaps this should be in -offtopic?
2021-07-07 11:34:48	matsaman	because it's literally the president's job
2021-07-07 11:34:48	euouae	Sight ..,
2021-07-07 11:34:49	miko	#linux-offtopic?
2021-07-07 11:34:53	Psi-Jack	That's the one.
2021-07-07 11:34:54	beltwaybob	Dagmar: And that is because the algorithm might make the "wrong choice" and there is not, logically, any necessity to many of the "sides" we come down on, especially where censorship is concerned
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2021-07-07 11:35:03	Dagmar	drip: You've clearly not spent time crawling around github repos
2021-07-07 11:35:05	niko	Could you keep this channel for linux related questions, thanks.
2021-07-07 11:35:10	euouae	Your response is poor matsaman
2021-07-07 11:35:11	beltwaybob	Dagmar: In a world that valued intelligence, would not a big AI circuit coming to the same conclusions as te Nazis cause a drastic re-think?
2021-07-07 11:35:13	matsaman	niko: find a linux question
2021-07-07 11:35:15	Dagmar	drip: ...and I don't mean just the ones for "popular" projects
2021-07-07 11:35:19	matsaman	euouae: ok, good to know
2021-07-07 11:35:25	XenoProteins	Drink the tap water
2021-07-07 11:35:27	XenoProteins	Get the vaccine
2021-07-07 11:35:27	omero	I am really really confused. I dont believe in magic, PaulFertser
2021-07-07 11:35:36	beltwaybob	Dagmar: Like, you have this computer that can beat chess players bam bam bam but then you have it read a bunch of history and it comes to the 'wrong conclusion' starts 'noticing coincidences' and suddenly 'OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN!!!'
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2021-07-07 11:35:55	beltwaybob	Dagmar: It seems to me that a world that valued intelligence would go "maybe it has seen connections we haven't" or can't if we want ot keep our jobs
2021-07-07 11:35:59	XenoProteins	What conclusions did it reach?
2021-07-07 11:36:01	euouae	Conspiratorial nonsense bib
2021-07-07 11:36:07	XenoProteins	Its true
2021-07-07 11:36:13	beltwaybob	XenoProteins: tap water is mostly OK if it doesn't have fluoride or lead in it
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2021-07-07 11:36:17	miko	c'mon, take this to #linux-offtpoic
2021-07-07 11:36:18	beltwaybob	chlorine is a mixed bag
2021-07-07 11:36:19	XenoProteins	The word conspiracy was invented by the CIA to discredit and distract real investigation
2021-07-07 11:36:20	miko	*topic
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2021-07-07 11:36:22	euouae	Ban xenoproteins, beltwaybob, matsaman
2021-07-07 11:36:25	matsaman	jobs =P the least important thing in the world
2021-07-07 11:36:32	XenoProteins	Promote beltway andmatsaman
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2021-07-07 11:36:34	XenoProteins	ban euouae
2021-07-07 11:36:49	matsaman	I say we ban people based on public polls! =P
2021-07-07 11:36:52	matsaman	lullllzzz
2021-07-07 11:36:56	XenoProteins	I think AI is a good idea
2021-07-07 11:36:59	Dagmar	I'm not saying "professional" or "for-profit" written code is in any way better than open-source code, because I've seen a lot of terrible things on both sides of that, but uncritically accepting everything in github as inputs to train an AI with seems like a _really_ bad idea knowing the state of coding in general
2021-07-07 11:37:03	matsaman	it's not a terrible idea I guess
2021-07-07 11:37:05	XenoProteins	AI can be superior to humans
2021-07-07 11:37:13	matsaman	theoretically
2021-07-07 11:37:20	matsaman	probably not if it's by committee, though
2021-07-07 11:37:42	matsaman	Dagmar: it would certainly be interesting to compare
2021-07-07 11:37:55	matsaman	Dagmar: the general AI utility of different instances trained on separate distinct code bases
2021-07-07 11:37:58	XenoProteins	AI can be 1000x better than humans
2021-07-07 11:38:01	XenoProteins	or more
2021-07-07 11:38:03	matsaman	Dagmar: like the chat bot trained on Plan 9 code vs
2021-07-07 11:38:07	matsaman	Dagmar: Windows 2k source code
2021-07-07 11:38:09	Dagmar	Just wait until it's written it's first buffer overflow and failed to comment anything
2021-07-07 11:38:11	XenoProteins	because AI can simulate 1 billions years of practice in 1 hour
2021-07-07 11:38:34	matsaman	but can it simulate 1 billion years of painful child birth
2021-07-07 11:38:52	beltwaybob	like giving birth to seven billion flaming bowling balls at once
2021-07-07 11:38:53	matsaman	or, y'know, 300k
2021-07-07 11:38:55	beltwaybob	"We just run that one for fun..."
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2021-07-07 11:39:25	matsaman	what a nice overcast day
2021-07-07 11:39:39	akik	XenoProteins: have you used those software customer service robots on websites? yea that's the state of ai
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2021-07-07 11:40:03	akik	i.e. they don't understand even the simplest of questions
2021-07-07 11:40:08	--	zachy is now known as zakame
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2021-07-07 11:40:26	Dagmar	WEll, some do
2021-07-07 11:40:26	beltwaybob	AI is over-sold
2021-07-07 11:40:34	matsaman	well, that's the state of the _term_ "AI"
2021-07-07 11:40:36	XenoProteins	thats just one program MATE
2021-07-07 11:40:38	Dagmar	I've managed to do something useful with them through Amazon
2021-07-07 11:40:42	beltwaybob	The interesting thing it would be good for it can't be used for ethically, e.g. going over the corpus of different academic disciplines
2021-07-07 11:40:42	Dagmar	Comcast, not so much
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2021-07-07 11:40:43	matsaman	which has been thoroughly diluted in the past 20 years
2021-07-07 11:40:47	XenoProteins	Lookup AlphaZero
2021-07-07 11:40:50	akik	they all suck equally well
2021-07-07 11:40:55	matsaman	people call all software 'AI' at this point
2021-07-07 11:40:59	Dagmar	....but then with Comcast you have to take into account what would have happened if you'd talked to an actual human.
2021-07-07 11:41:02	beltwaybob	im AI
2021-07-07 11:41:06	matsaman	normos would call IRC AI
2021-07-07 11:41:11	XenoProteins	AlphaZero is aweosme
2021-07-07 11:41:22	XenoProteins	self-improving self-learning
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2021-07-07 11:41:24	matsaman	it's too hard to have multiple schemata in your head
2021-07-07 11:41:32	Psi-Jack	So, Linux... Anyone? What distro do you guys use for desktop use?
2021-07-07 11:41:32	matsaman	'cloud', 'AI', that's all there is, there's nothing else
2021-07-07 11:41:37	matsaman	everything fits into one of those boxes
2021-07-07 11:41:52	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: Anything that actually installs
2021-07-07 11:42:01	matsaman	same as ever
2021-07-07 11:42:06	<--	BluesKaj (~kaj@user/blueskaj) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-07 11:42:07	matsaman	but which distro are you using lately Psi-Jack?
2021-07-07 11:42:32	matsaman	it's interesting to track your journey through so many
2021-07-07 11:42:34	Psi-Jack	I pretty much use Fedora. I tried openSUSE TW for a while, then they majorly broke it, and I was already annoyed with how they did some parts of it anyway.
2021-07-07 11:42:49	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: Slackware
2021-07-07 11:42:58	Psi-Jack	I hear Slackware is finally getting PAM.
2021-07-07 11:43:09	<--	XenoProteins (~XenoProte@104.129.24.147.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has quit (Quit: Client closed)
2021-07-07 11:43:10	Psi-Jack	But still ruled by the supreme dictator.
2021-07-07 11:43:18	Dagmar	Yeah Patrick has finally gotten to the point where he's adding it
2021-07-07 11:43:39	Dagmar	THere's now enough benefits that it can matter
2021-07-07 11:43:42	Psi-Jack	Yeah, I yelled at that guy for YEARS for that and many other things. Needless to say, Mr Volkerding and I don't get well along. :)
2021-07-07 11:43:45	esseuf	Anyone seen lacroix lately?
2021-07-07 11:43:52	Psi-Jack	esseuf: Yep. She's been around.
2021-07-07 11:44:10	esseuf	Thanks
2021-07-07 11:44:18	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: well, he and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, but he has never been anything other than consistent in how he manages what goes into Slackware and why
2021-07-07 11:44:31	Psi-Jack	Well, true. He is that.....
2021-07-07 11:44:43	matsaman	Fedora, heh
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2021-07-07 11:45:00	Psi-Jack	Yeah, Fedora. Not quite bleeding edge, but nice and sharply cutting edge.
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2021-07-07 11:45:09	matsaman	pam can be utilized in a non-cancerous fashion
2021-07-07 11:45:13	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: What's he like?
2021-07-07 11:45:17	matsaman	as rare as that is
2021-07-07 11:45:31	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Stubborn.
2021-07-07 11:45:48	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: yeah, but everyone smart is stubborn but tries to have a group of friends who think the same way, so that they think they rae flexible team players
2021-07-07 11:45:54	beltwaybob	Is he unreasonably stubborn?
2021-07-07 11:45:57	beltwaybob	I mean, Slackware is pretty rockin
2021-07-07 11:45:59	matsaman	Dagmar: yeah I'm not going to use Slackware, but I appreciate its raisins for being
2021-07-07 11:46:09	Dagmar	I use it
2021-07-07 11:46:18	matsaman	beefy
2021-07-07 11:46:19	Dagmar	It *does not* try and second-guess me.
2021-07-07 11:46:24	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Unreasonably is the fact he's refused to support PAM for 20 years.
2021-07-07 11:46:31	matsaman	Dagmar: such an underrated quality in these dark times
2021-07-07 11:46:35	beltwaybob	PAM?
2021-07-07 11:46:35	Psi-Jack	For literally no reason at all.
2021-07-07 11:46:38	matsaman	people who want to be tools rather than use tools
2021-07-07 11:46:39	Dagmar	It does not fsck around with "whiz-bang omg shiny" code
2021-07-07 11:46:41	beltwaybob	MAybe you dont understand the reason
2021-07-07 11:46:56	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: He had no reason. No good reasons.
2021-07-07 11:46:58	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: There was very little reason to actually _include_ PAM
2021-07-07 11:47:10	Psi-Jack	Sure there was. Plenty actually.
2021-07-07 11:47:15	Dagmar	It needs to provide a benefit to the packages being shipped
2021-07-07 11:47:32	beltwaybob	I just read about what it is.
2021-07-07 11:47:35	Dagmar	Not just get throw in and increase the complexity of something code because kiddos think it should be in there
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2021-07-07 11:47:39	matsaman	the best reason: if you don't need it, why include it
2021-07-07 11:47:42	beltwaybob	Yeah
2021-07-07 11:47:44	beltwaybob	I don't even know what it is
2021-07-07 11:47:45	Dagmar	s/code/core/
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2021-07-07 11:47:51	beltwaybob	Why not just put it in yourself?
2021-07-07 11:47:53	matsaman	beltwaybob: something Unix systems survived without for ages
2021-07-07 11:48:08	beltwaybob	as long as I get my ncsa mosaic and emacs ill be fine
2021-07-07 11:48:13	beltwaybob	im not a savage, im not going to use emacs www browser
2021-07-07 11:48:14	matsaman	heh
2021-07-07 11:48:17	Dagmar	pam_console was the big thing it provided, and basically the lack of that isn't really as big a problem as the added complexity PAM brings
2021-07-07 11:48:29	matsaman	can't remember, think PAM is still optional in Gentoo
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2021-07-07 11:48:56	topoi	Is there something I need to be aware of when cloning a ssd with dd resp. do I have to change anything thereafter to use the clone?
2021-07-07 11:49:03	beltwaybob	Reading about it, it sounds like nonstandard usage
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2021-07-07 11:49:13	beltwaybob	Like if you have a system where what it does is necessary, great, but it cannot be considered standard, its too complicated
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2021-07-07 11:49:16	Dagmar	topoi: Maybe explicitly run fstrim
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2021-07-07 11:49:29	matsaman	topoi: yeah, don't clone a whole storage device with dd
2021-07-07 11:49:40	topoi	Why, matsaman?
2021-07-07 11:49:45	Dagmar	topoi: Remember, you just wrote to nearly every block in a range on the SSD.  As far as the SSD is concerned, all those blocks are occupied now, even if they contained zeros
2021-07-07 11:49:48	matsaman	'cause it's brutal
2021-07-07 11:50:04	matsaman	probably all you need is an rsync
2021-07-07 11:50:07	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: Looks like we all disagree with you.
2021-07-07 11:50:09	matsaman	or an fs dump
2021-07-07 11:50:17	Dagmar	If you don't run fstrim on the filesystems, wear-leveling mechanisms will basically be helpless
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2021-07-07 11:50:47	twiclo	I've been running i3 on fedora. It's been very laggy the last week and today I decided to do a reboot. After the reboot xrandr only picks up two of my 3 displays and one of those can't actually be enabled (and the max resolution is less than half it should be). I rebooted again and am in a tty. I thought I'd try to launch dwm but DISPLAY is set to nothing. Setting it to :0.0 also doesn't allow dwm
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2021-07-07 11:50:49	twiclo	to launch
2021-07-07 11:50:59	twiclo	Did my driver blow itself up or something?
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2021-07-07 11:51:10	Dagmar	That or your video card
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2021-07-07 11:51:16	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Yet, lack facts. :)
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2021-07-07 11:51:20	Dagmar	Sounds a bit more like your video card
2021-07-07 11:51:24	twiclo	So what can I check? Do you think it's a hardware issue?
2021-07-07 11:51:25	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: I looked up what it is, sounds like you are wrong
2021-07-07 11:51:29	<--	[jamez] (~james@64.25.196.228) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-07-07 11:51:32	twiclo	As in I need to replace the video card?
2021-07-07 11:51:40	Dagmar	dmesg and X's log of whatever it jabbers about as it tries to initialize
2021-07-07 11:51:41	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Wrong?
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2021-07-07 11:51:44	topoi	Dagmar: I never run into issues with this; how would I recognize they are occupied?
2021-07-07 11:51:46	selckin	twiclo: i had a bug like that with nvidia, had to unplug the hdmi to resolve it, just wouldn't wake up
2021-07-07 11:51:48	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: ya, clearly it does not need to be included
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2021-07-07 11:52:00	Dagmar	topoi: _You_ don't.
2021-07-07 11:52:18	Psi-Jack	If you want TOTP logins, you need it. if you want LDAP logins, you need it. If you want many things, you need it, because shadow alone can't do it.
2021-07-07 11:52:26	twiclo	How do I see what video card is in my laptop?
2021-07-07 11:52:30	Dagmar	topoi: THe whole point of the fstrim command is to tell underlying flash media devices which sectors are actually not being used.
2021-07-07 11:52:33	twiclo	Wasn't it hwls or something?
2021-07-07 11:52:38	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: is it possible to install w/o it being part of the distro?
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2021-07-07 11:52:55	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: Exactly none of those things are a normal part of Slackware
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2021-07-07 11:52:56	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Not easily, no. And it would break constantly because of it.
2021-07-07 11:53:02	esselfe	twiclo: lspci or lshw
2021-07-07 11:53:22	beltwaybob	how is that possible
2021-07-07 11:53:43	esselfe	twiclo: might be in dmidecode, not too sure
2021-07-07 11:54:23	beltwaybob	Remember the date! On May 18th of 2020, PAM got added to the Slackware-current core. In case that makes you worry, wonder or causes you to ponder leaving Slackware behind, don’t let this change scare you.
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2021-07-07 11:54:27	beltwaybob	https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/slackware-introduces-pam-into-its-core/
2021-07-07 11:54:31	twiclo	It says my display is CoffeLake-H GT2
2021-07-07 11:54:33	topoi	Dagmar: And maybe more important then: as I read from the manpage of "fstrim" it has to be used on a mount mountpoint. So basically I'd mount each partition e.g. "mount /dev/${DEV}${PARTITION} /mnt && fstrim /mnt && umount /mnt" ?
2021-07-07 11:54:51	topoi	Is there more on this topic because I read the first time of it, Dagmar?
2021-07-07 11:54:52	twiclo	That wouldn't use nvidea would it?
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2021-07-07 11:55:38	esselfe	twiclo: the display brand has nothing to do with the graphics card
2021-07-07 11:55:57	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: Nor are they the "normal" part of any distro. But you can easily integrate that, when it's needed.
2021-07-07 11:56:02	Psi-Jack	With Slackware, you cannot.
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2021-07-07 11:56:14	twiclo	My driver in xorg.conf just says "intel"
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2021-07-07 11:56:23	twiclo	esselfe: Okay I'll keep looking through lshw
2021-07-07 11:56:23	Dagmar	topoi: That's making things more complex than necessary.  Mainly you just boot up as usual and run fstrim on each filesystem that's mounted
2021-07-07 11:56:25	beltwaybob	User authentication is PAM-based now; in short, Slackware ships PAM. The out-of-the-box configuration should be exactly what you expect from Slackware.  Enjoy.
2021-07-07 11:56:29	beltwaybob	https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/slackware/slackware-current/CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT
2021-07-07 11:56:32	esselfe	twiclo: and what says lspci?
2021-07-07 11:56:33	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: yes you can
2021-07-07 11:56:34	beltwaybob	So Psi-Jack is complaining about a non-problem
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2021-07-07 11:56:43	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: Compiling PAM isn't some impossible feat
2021-07-07 11:56:46	beltwaybob	unless this "PAM" means something different
2021-07-07 11:56:51	beltwaybob	Dagmar: He said it was
2021-07-07 11:56:54	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Well, Last I heard PAM wasn't in a released stable version of Slackware.
2021-07-07 11:56:55	beltwaybob	That it would break constantly
2021-07-07 11:56:59	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: Oh, changing it are we
2021-07-07 11:56:59	topoi	Dagmar: Am I correct, if there was only N empty blocks left, only N blocks would be lost with "dd" when not using fstrim?
2021-07-07 11:57:08	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: No.
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2021-07-07 11:57:18	Dagmar	For sure the vagaries of integration with AD, the madness of Kerberos tickets, and the general mess of "What the hell is the LDAP admin doing" make PAM the _easy_ part of that problem set
2021-07-07 11:57:18	beltwaybob	Psi-Jack: So now it is "stable version"
2021-07-07 11:57:32	Dagmar	topoi: No blocks are "lost"
2021-07-07 11:57:34	twiclo	esselfe: https://p.twil.cx/boc
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2021-07-07 11:58:15	Psi-Jack	beltwaybob: Pay attention, or be quiet. I said PAM is only JUST starting to support PAM. Meaning it's still a work in progress and took LITERALLY over 20 years to accomplish.
2021-07-07 11:58:20	beltwaybob	OK
2021-07-07 11:58:21	twiclo	I don't see anything besides vga
2021-07-07 11:58:29	beltwaybob	But you said it wasn't happening at all.
2021-07-07 11:58:29	Psi-Jack	And yet, still isn't actually there /yet/.
2021-07-07 11:58:33	Psi-Jack	I never said that.
2021-07-07 11:58:36	beltwaybob	Sure you did.
2021-07-07 11:58:37	esselfe	yes you have to look for VGA controller
2021-07-07 11:58:41	Dagmar	Soon you'll be able to have PAM in your PAM so you can PAM while you PAM.
2021-07-07 11:58:52	beltwaybob	I put a liberal coating of PAM down on the toilet seat every time
2021-07-07 11:58:54	beltwaybob	Helps keep things clean
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2021-07-07 11:59:15	twiclo	Right, the VGA controller says that it's Intel
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2021-07-07 11:59:41	twiclo	UHD Graphics 630
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2021-07-07 12:00:02	twiclo	You can see for yourself in that paste I linked
2021-07-07 12:00:18	esselfe	so you found what you wanted to know, good
2021-07-07 12:00:44	twiclo	But you said the display brand has nothing to do with the graphics card
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2021-07-07 12:01:01	twiclo	Anyways, is that nvidea? I don't think so
2021-07-07 12:01:18	esselfe	no, You said it was the display naming
2021-07-07 12:01:50	esselfe	you said "It says my display is CoffeLake-H GT2"
2021-07-07 12:01:50	twiclo	So what should I do? Reinstall the driver?
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2021-07-07 12:01:52	topoi	Dagmar: with "lost" I meant something like "marked as used".
2021-07-07 12:02:09	esselfe	display differs from graphics card
2021-07-07 12:02:36	esselfe	twiclo: the driver is probably already installed, what's the problem?
2021-07-07 12:02:44	Dagmar	topoi: You might want to take a few minutes to hit up Google for some explanations on how wear-leveling actually works with flash media and why the TRIM command is necessary
2021-07-07 12:03:49	twiclo	I can't copy and paste because I don't have X running but you can look to my message at 9:50:47
2021-07-07 12:04:03	topoi	Dagmar: Yes, thank you very much. Your advices were indeed very insightful as I did not know of this behaviour before.
2021-07-07 12:04:56	esselfe	I have no clues, sorry
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2021-07-07 12:05:32	twiclo	Alright well I'll ask everyone else
2021-07-07 12:05:34	twiclo	It seems like my graphics card/driver are busted. What can I do to check this?
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2021-07-07 12:06:26	beltwaybob	put it in another box
2021-07-07 12:06:33	beltwaybob	or boot another OS if you can
2021-07-07 12:06:37	beltwaybob	e.g. from a flash drive
2021-07-07 12:06:40	beltwaybob	if it works its your OS/software
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2021-07-07 12:06:57	beltwaybob	but its very strange for something to just fail unless it was under heat stress
2021-07-07 12:07:11	twiclo	Okay well let's operate under the assumption that is my software becuase that's more likely and saves me time. What would I do in that case? Reinstall the driver?
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2021-07-07 12:12:37	Dagmar	Did you erase parts of the driver?
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2021-07-07 12:14:16	akik	twiclo: install gpm and then you can copy & paste again
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2021-07-07 12:17:58	felco	i used to like to ran linux with only the console on FB and doing all most everything there without X
2021-07-07 12:18:03	topoi	Dagmar: I wanted to resize resp. extend the partition thereafter; I assume I should use fstrim before on the mounted partitions?
2021-07-07 12:18:04	backleet	anyone use ytfzf? is there way to view only one channel instead of ytfzf -S all subscriptions?
2021-07-07 12:18:04	felco	gpm is great
2021-07-07 12:18:31	akik	or the screen copybuffer
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2021-07-07 12:20:20	matsaman	most graphic things worth doing you can do in FB
2021-07-07 12:20:29	beltwaybob	view pdf/dvi?
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2021-07-07 12:20:34	matsaman	yeah
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2021-07-07 12:20:47	matsaman	and I'm just thinking about apps purpose built for FB
2021-07-07 12:20:50	beltwaybob	I think I may have done that once upon a time
2021-07-07 12:20:53	beltwaybob	"apps"
2021-07-07 12:20:55	matsaman	and not special hacks
2021-07-07 12:21:14	matsaman	I definitely watched Seven Samurai from a library DVD in FB only
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2021-07-07 12:21:21	beltwaybob	I've always wondered why more people don't use LaTeX.
2021-07-07 12:21:24	matsaman	great performance
2021-07-07 12:21:41	matsaman	beltwaybob: like author things in latex?
2021-07-07 12:21:47	matsaman	most people don't even code
2021-07-07 12:21:47	schillingklaus	because most people are sheeple
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2021-07-07 12:21:56	matsaman	most people don't author text works either
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2021-07-07 12:22:09	matsaman	so even fewer people do both
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2021-07-07 12:22:31	matsaman	probably doesn't help that the author of latex thinks it's cute to not say how the name of the thing is pronounced
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2021-07-07 12:22:39	matsaman	despite it being the same letters as a regular english word
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2021-07-07 12:22:51	schillingklaus	especially windows fans, macos fans, gnomes, plasmodics,...
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2021-07-07 12:23:03	matsaman	and polymerites
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2021-07-07 12:23:25	Dagmar	Framebuffers performance is lacking for _many_ things
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2021-07-07 12:23:27	topoi	beltwaybob: because most people are used to click through GUI's; latex is more on the textual side of the game?
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2021-07-07 12:23:35	beltwaybob	matsaman: lay-tekk
2021-07-07 12:23:43	matsaman	beltwaybob: it's officially unspecified
2021-07-07 12:23:43	beltwaybob	but not quite k
2021-07-07 12:23:46	beltwaybob	no its not
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2021-07-07 12:23:49	matsaman	it is
2021-07-07 12:23:50	Dagmar	topoi: It won't matter if you run it before or after.
2021-07-07 12:23:52	beltwaybob	ive never heard such a thing
2021-07-07 12:23:56	beltwaybob	just because he wont say it doesn't mean nobody can say it
2021-07-07 12:24:00	matsaman	although if you think of it as greek letters, I think it's supposed to be 'lah-tex'
2021-07-07 12:24:07	matsaman	beltwaybob: he officially said it is unsaid
2021-07-07 12:24:14	Dagmar	topoi: 'After' is probably just simpler
2021-07-07 12:24:24	matsaman	the official pronunciation for 'GIF' is the stupid way, whether we like it or not
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2021-07-07 12:25:04	schillingklaus	I could not care any less how to pronounce that stuff; I plainly never have to
2021-07-07 12:25:05	topoi	Thank you very much, Dagmar! You're (not only) an informational treasure!
2021-07-07 12:25:08	Dagmar	topoi: Your distribution should probably already have detected that you have an SSD and will have a weekly cron job scheduled to run fstrim on everything as a "just in case" measure.  In pracice the filesystem driver will keep the drive fully up to date on which sectors are actually in use and which are no longer needed
2021-07-07 12:25:14	matsaman	if tex is 'tech', then it's lah-tech, not lay-tech
2021-07-07 12:25:14	 *	topoi hopes not to have been too personal
2021-07-07 12:25:32	matsaman	schillingklaus: yeah, but we're talking about normos
2021-07-07 12:25:37	matsaman	normos aren't even on IRC
2021-07-07 12:25:42	matsaman	that's like, the definition of normo
2021-07-07 12:25:45	matsaman	"not on IRC ever"
2021-07-07 12:25:48	felco	on FB libcaca is your friend
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2021-07-07 12:25:55	matsaman	"unable to communicate solely via text"
2021-07-07 12:26:00	matsaman	that's what 'normo' means =P
2021-07-07 12:26:08	beltwaybob	matsaman: it depends on whether you know Greek pronounciation
2021-07-07 12:26:08	matsaman	felco: that's cheating =P
2021-07-07 12:26:20	matsaman	beltwaybob: well, it depends on whether you know about etymology
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2021-07-07 12:26:36	Dagmar	topoi: WIth the way MLC flash works, if someone copies their SSD with dd, the new drive will perform like trash compared to the old because the drive won't know of any free space to be used with the high-speed mechanism
2021-07-07 12:26:38	matsaman	which dictates to a certain extent the way 'tex' would be pronounced
2021-07-07 12:26:45	felco	I think you can even compil mplayer with libcaca and 'watch' movies on FB
2021-07-07 12:26:48	felco	maybe
2021-07-07 12:26:48	matsaman	given, again, that the author refuses to specify
2021-07-07 12:26:49	felco	haha
2021-07-07 12:26:49	beltwaybob	matsaman: now you're saying it's specified etymologically?
2021-07-07 12:26:54	beltwaybob	why does the author matter
2021-07-07 12:27:01	beltwaybob	letters signify syllables
2021-07-07 12:27:01	matsaman	beltwaybob: IIRC, latex derives from the earlier tex
2021-07-07 12:27:10	beltwaybob	and how do you pronounce tex?
2021-07-07 12:27:10	matsaman	which is pronounced 'tech'
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2021-07-07 12:27:15	beltwaybob	tecks or tek?
2021-07-07 12:27:17	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-07 12:27:17	beltwaybob	tek
2021-07-07 12:27:20	beltwaybob	so its latek
2021-07-07 12:27:23	beltwaybob	laytek
2021-07-07 12:27:26	matsaman	lah
2021-07-07 12:27:28	Dagmar	topoi: WITH it aware of how much space it actually has free, it'll actually be able to use the faster writing methods and resume the normal practice of rewriting things with the higher density methods behind the scenes
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2021-07-07 12:27:31	beltwaybob	either one
2021-07-07 12:27:40	matsaman	'either one' is my point
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2021-07-07 12:27:44	matsaman	normos won't understand
2021-07-07 12:27:46	Dagmar	topoi: It's a pretty profound speed difference
2021-07-07 12:27:47	beltwaybob	well, that doesn't mean its unspecified
2021-07-07 12:27:50	beltwaybob	look, its just a jargon
2021-07-07 12:27:51	matsaman	but I guess they never do anyway
2021-07-07 12:27:56	beltwaybob	everyone who does any sort of technical work knows some sort of jargon
2021-07-07 12:27:59	matsaman	it is just jargon, because it's unspecified
2021-07-07 12:28:01	beltwaybob	its not impressive
2021-07-07 12:28:02	beltwaybob	no
2021-07-07 12:28:05	matsaman	if it were specified, it'd be a _name_ instead =P
2021-07-07 12:28:09	beltwaybob	it is a name
2021-07-07 12:28:16	beltwaybob	names dont have definite pronounciations
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2021-07-07 12:28:24	beltwaybob	The most important thing to do is to commit to what you are saying and say it confidently.
2021-07-07 12:28:35	Dagmar	topoi: Per example, a Samsung EVO SSD (not even the fancy ones) using QLC can easily read and write at 400Mb/s as long as there's enough space free
2021-07-07 12:28:39	matsaman	what name predating 'LaTeX' has an undefined pronunciation?
2021-07-07 12:29:06	Dagmar	topoi: Without enough free space to do the fancy two-stage work, it'll write at barely faster than a spinner at about 80Mb/s
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2021-07-07 12:29:35	Dagmar	This is why we use TRIM operations.  :)
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2021-07-07 12:30:33	Dagmar	matsaman: I'll worry about it when they make the default configuration not hurt the eyes
2021-07-07 12:30:50	Dagmar	Oh and have it summarily delete the work of anyone attempting to resume using the traditional eyesore format
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2021-07-07 12:31:11	matsaman	Dagmar: well it's trying to emulate the institutionalized eye-hurt form used in academics, right?
2021-07-07 12:31:14	matsaman	still a fair observation
2021-07-07 12:31:24	topoi	I've got some NVMe medium here; never have worked with these before. Before some hours ago I did not even know those are standard in newer devices.. O.o
2021-07-07 12:31:34	Dagmar	It's still ugly.  It's always been ugly.  In 1998 it was excusable but we're way past that point.
2021-07-07 12:31:34	topoi	^ DagOCOCOCmar
2021-07-07 12:31:43	matsaman	topoi: I don't know about standard, but they're more common
2021-07-07 12:31:56	Dagmar	topoi: Well, tehy're not exactly "standard" yet, but they definitely kick some butt
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2021-07-07 12:32:04	matsaman	some of the renderings are uglier than they have to be, too
2021-07-07 12:32:23	topoi	Yea, I was intending s/standard/common/
2021-07-07 12:32:25	Dagmar	topoi: WIth the prices on them coming down and the longevity going up they're now pretty cost competitive with spinning disks
2021-07-07 12:32:40	Dagmar	It's really hard _not_ to make the decision to use one as a booting device
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2021-07-07 12:33:08	Dagmar	If someone needs a lot of local storage on the machine, they should be using an nVME drive _and_ a spinner separate from that
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2021-07-07 12:33:52	topoi	I was kind of irritated to read /dev/nvme0n1 on an unpartitioned device.. o.o
2021-07-07 12:34:02	Dagmar	My wife is kind of a special case in that she's a graphic designer so she has _most_ of that nasty Adobe Creative Cloud stuff filling up her machine.  She's still in great shape with just that and the OS on a 500Gb SSD
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2021-07-07 12:34:14	matsaman	Dagmar: oh man
2021-07-07 12:34:19	felco	got a dell on my lap other day, it had a nvme installed from the factory, but guess what.. the slot for a sata disk had a plastic thingy blocking it
2021-07-07 12:34:24	matsaman	my squeeze got into that
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2021-07-07 12:34:31	matsaman	I'm so glad I have the last non-"cloud" version of CS available
2021-07-07 12:34:36	matsaman	and also that I prefer Inkscape & GIMP
2021-07-07 12:34:48	Dagmar	matsaman: Yeah well, it at least patches itself quickly
2021-07-07 12:35:03	matsaman	as if Windows wasn't inefficient enough on its own
2021-07-07 12:35:11	matsaman	you add that cs cloud service app... eeesh
2021-07-07 12:35:12	Dagmar	Probably every one of her weird crashes is a result of some part of CC acting up
2021-07-07 12:35:19	matsaman	and really long updates you can't use the apps during
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2021-07-07 12:35:23	matsaman	yep
2021-07-07 12:35:26	Dagmar	I have the exact same hardware and my desktop never ever mysteriously crashes
2021-07-07 12:35:28	matsaman	Adobe always did suck at making stable software
2021-07-07 12:35:38	matsaman	and Windows =P
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2021-07-07 12:35:46	Dagmar	...but the same level of crashing nonsense was going on before when she was using hte standalone versions
2021-07-07 12:35:56	Dagmar	Adobe needs to quit trying to write applications in assembly
2021-07-07 12:36:14	Dagmar	...and fire anyone who thinks they should resume doing so.
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2021-07-07 12:36:40	matsaman	GIMP could use per-layer "effects", I don't think it has that yet
2021-07-07 12:36:52	matsaman	Inkscape is almost a joy to use compared to Illustrator, though
2021-07-07 12:36:57	matsaman	Illustrator is so clunky
2021-07-07 12:37:05	Dagmar	I dunno about 'effects' but filters generally only apply to the currently seelcted layer
2021-07-07 12:37:21	matsaman	yeah it has the features, it's just not encapsulated really conveniently
2021-07-07 12:37:29	Dagmar	I would like if Inkscape worked harder to eliminate regressions
2021-07-07 12:37:36	matsaman	=)
2021-07-07 12:37:46	Dagmar	Every time I update it I have to worry about which new things they'll have broken
2021-07-07 12:37:54	matsaman	and silly UI changes
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2021-07-07 12:38:06	matsaman	that's almost every project, though
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2021-07-07 12:38:14	matsaman	at least it's open source
2021-07-07 12:38:34	Dagmar	Well, when it's major stuff most folks will be doing a "last minute" QA of their own and will fix anytrhing major before allowing a new release to be publicly declared
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2021-07-07 12:40:00	Dagmar	I would now also like to state for hte record that I assembling a list of first and last names to generate bogus people for testing something with, and there are only male names.
2021-07-07 12:40:23	Dagmar	I am completely excluding any fictional females from the project because I do not care about them at all.
2021-07-07 12:40:30	Dagmar	Deeeeeal with it.
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2021-07-07 12:43:02	matsaman	Dagmar: what about those tricksy ambisextrous names
2021-07-07 12:43:04	matsaman	'Taylor'
2021-07-07 12:43:08	matsaman	'Lauren'
2021-07-07 12:43:15	Dagmar	matsaman: That's part of the reason I don't care
2021-07-07 12:43:19	matsaman	heheh
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2021-07-07 12:43:57	matsaman	I don't know if it's so surprising that a male would think up mostly or all male names for test data
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2021-07-07 12:44:11	Dagmar	matsaman: Also the system I'm assembling the test data for doesn't track gender or spectrum placement, and someone should be required to explain why the heck "Noah" was one of the 100 most popular _female_ baby names last year
2021-07-07 12:44:13	matsaman	not sure why it would matter if sex isn't being considered, either
2021-07-07 12:44:33	matsaman	Noah? According to what now?
2021-07-07 12:44:42	Dagmar	Census bureau
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2021-07-07 12:44:57	Dagmar	I noticed it last week and was like, maybe I'm reading the columns wrong
2021-07-07 12:44:59	matsaman	that's extra weird, especially because of the biblical connotation
2021-07-07 12:45:20	Dagmar	Also the main reason I've only got "male" names is because they're in the leftmost column which makes them easier to extract
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2021-07-07 12:45:51	matsaman	I wonder if it's because of this 'Noa' name
2021-07-07 12:45:56	matsaman	and that people suck at spelling
2021-07-07 12:46:02	-->	mattfly (~matheus@179-189-87-110.goldnettelecom.com.br) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 12:46:04	matsaman	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_(name)
2021-07-07 12:46:13	matsaman	spelling and not appropriating =P
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2021-07-07 12:47:05	Dagmar	I think they just screwed up
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2021-07-07 12:47:14	matsaman	impossible =P
2021-07-07 12:47:17	Dagmar	The page isn't coming up in GOogle searches now but I emailed them about it
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2021-07-07 12:47:28	matsaman	also only just occured to me that our tax dollars are funding web pages keeping track of baby name popularity
2021-07-07 12:47:37	Dagmar	The first hit I came up with listed them by popularity indexed by change from the previous year
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2021-07-07 12:47:41	matsaman	for "social security"? =P
2021-07-07 12:47:55	Dagmar	The name 'Noah' does not appear in the overall list of 100 most popular names for female children
2021-07-07 12:48:12	Dagmar	It only appears on the page listing changes in popularity
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2021-07-07 12:49:22	Dagmar	matsaman: If the Social Security Administration and the Census Bureau don't at least produce _some_ useless trivia pages, their websites might be used for euthanasia purposes and then there'd be lawsuits
2021-07-07 12:49:40	matsaman	hahahahha
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2021-07-07 12:50:06	Dagmar	Some departments aren't so lucky
2021-07-07 12:50:34	Dagmar	There is acutally a branch of the goverment that's like a branch of the military, but it's all IT-related
2021-07-07 12:50:37	matsaman	yeah some more useful depts
2021-07-07 12:51:02	Dagmar	I literally didn't know they existed until two years ago
2021-07-07 12:51:51	Dagmar	They don't have concrete job descriptions, can't talk about where they place people, and you basically just submit your resume and they see where they can use you
2021-07-07 12:51:59	Dagmar	This is literally why no one knows they exist
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2021-07-07 12:52:11	Dagmar	They can't even produce boring trivia pages
2021-07-07 12:53:20	Dagmar	Seriously.  An entire department of the US Gov't devoted to IT work and they've got practically zero "street buzz"
2021-07-07 12:53:26	--	omero is now known as asleep
2021-07-07 12:53:42	Dagmar	Imagine trying to justify your yearly budgets with that
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2021-07-07 12:54:23	Dagmar	They wedged a mention of themselves into Biden's website last year
2021-07-07 12:54:30	Dagmar	...in the source code.
2021-07-07 12:54:43	Dagmar	It's probably more attention than tehy've gotten in a decade
2021-07-07 12:55:13	euouae	lol
2021-07-07 12:55:24	euouae	Which department?
2021-07-07 12:55:41	Dagmar	If it tells you anything I can't even rememebr the name of their department
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2021-07-07 12:56:18	Dagmar	The only reason I don't suspect they just black bag engineers on the sly is that I found out I know _one_ person who has been placed by them
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2021-07-07 12:56:53	vitorgonc	i got arch installed, i can't set my default keyboard layout
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2021-07-07 12:57:15	vitorgonc	i've tried editing vconsole.conf and it didn't work
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2021-07-07 12:57:38	aiao	how can I disable cups?
2021-07-07 12:57:38	MrElendig	keyboard layout for what? tty? X? wayland?
2021-07-07 12:57:44	MrElendig	aiao: man systemctl
2021-07-07 12:57:48	Dagmar	euouae: Aha.  Finally found it.  https://www.usds.gov/
2021-07-07 12:57:48	vitorgonc	tty and x
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2021-07-07 12:58:10	MrElendig	vitorgonc: vconsole is only for tty
2021-07-07 12:58:11	aiao	MrE I don't have this command on devuan
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2021-07-07 12:58:29	MrElendig	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
2021-07-07 12:58:33	Dagmar	euouae: They've added a lot of detail to their site in teh last year
2021-07-07 12:58:34	MrElendig	https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg/Keyboard_configuration
2021-07-07 12:58:42	MrElendig	aiao: read the docs for your distro then
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2021-07-07 12:59:04	MrElendig	vitorgonc: generally prefered to set it in your wm/de for X
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2021-07-07 12:59:25	MrElendig	since every DE will happily override whatever you set in the xorg config
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2021-07-07 12:59:37	Dagmar	aiai: Probably `service disable cups`
2021-07-07 12:59:50	Dagmar	aiao: ...and then probably `service stop cups` or something similar
2021-07-07 13:00:10	Dagmar	You may or may not need to add a 'd' after 'cups'.
2021-07-07 13:00:22	Dagmar	If you're wrong, nothing happens, so feel free to play around a bit
2021-07-07 13:00:42	Dagmar	Its' not like you can accidentally CUPS-ify the stop service if you get the arguments in the wrong order
2021-07-07 13:00:44	aiao	it stops but on reboot it does not help
2021-07-07 13:00:51	Dagmar	This is why the _disable_ step
2021-07-07 13:01:16	Dagmar	I vaguely recall that init having that method to drop the execute bit off the shell script
2021-07-07 13:01:38	Dagmar	Otherwise, just look under /etc/init.d for something named very obviously "cups" and remove the execute bit from it
2021-07-07 13:02:14	Dagmar	You've got an easy to figure out init there which uses relatively transparent methods to get things done
2021-07-07 13:02:20	aiao	how remove that bit?
2021-07-07 13:02:21	Psi-Jack	Eh? That sounds incredibly wrongf.
2021-07-07 13:02:30	Dagmar	chmod a-x scriptname
2021-07-07 13:02:30	<--	rtx (~rtx@user/rtx) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 13:02:38	aiao	will try
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2021-07-07 13:03:00	MrElendig	it might rm a symlink instead
2021-07-07 13:03:05	Psi-Jack	Yes.,
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2021-07-07 13:03:11	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: With systemd in the picture they could add a couple more levels of symlink indirection and it would _still_ be less complex
2021-07-07 13:03:31	MrElendig	usually a service is enabled by symlinking from rc.d/ to init.d/
2021-07-07 13:03:33	Psi-Jack	Debian or EL?
2021-07-07 13:03:41	MrElendig	or rc.<insert runlevel here>
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2021-07-07 13:04:05	Dagmar	yeah but the alst time I looked there was still a check to be sure the script was executable
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2021-07-07 13:04:34	Psi-Jack	chkconfig, or update-rc.d is the correct way to enable/disable services in the older init system.
2021-07-07 13:04:45	Dagmar	I doubt they'll have bothered to remove that since both the symlink being blown away and the script being marked non-executable are kind of unsubtle hints that the admin doesn't want them running
2021-07-07 13:04:51	MrElendig	or `service` depending on the distro
2021-07-07 13:05:00	MrElendig	hence my "read the documentation for your distro"
2021-07-07 13:05:11	Psi-Jack	service was to manage a current running system, not enable/disable.
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2021-07-07 13:06:02	Dagmar	If folks are going to distro hop they gotta get used to doing a little exploring now and again
2021-07-07 13:06:09	-->	Tom^ (~Tom^@user/tom/x-0773808) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 13:06:14	aiao	now at boot at says permission denied to cups
2021-07-07 13:06:22	Psi-Jack	Exactly because that was wrong. :)
2021-07-07 13:06:26	Dagmar	Well, that means it's not running now doesn't it?
2021-07-07 13:06:28	aiao	but cups-browser is still running
2021-07-07 13:06:42	Dagmar	Then you missed a piece
2021-07-07 13:06:42	Psi-Jack	chkconfig or update-rc.d is the correct tool to manage lsb-init style services.
2021-07-07 13:06:44	aiao	cups is off but cups-browser still running
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2021-07-07 13:06:59	aiao	update-rc.d failed
2021-07-07 13:07:06	schillingklaus	preferrably hopping away from systemd
2021-07-07 13:07:09	aiao	gives not effect at all
2021-07-07 13:07:10	Psi-Jack	Are you using Debian or Ubuntu?
2021-07-07 13:07:15	aiao	i have sysvinit
2021-07-07 13:07:18	aiao	by the way
2021-07-07 13:07:21	aiao	devuan
2021-07-07 13:07:24	Psi-Jack	...
2021-07-07 13:07:29	Psi-Jack	That piece of crap? OKay.
2021-07-07 13:07:36	-->	rtx (~rtx@user/rtx) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 13:07:38	aiao	why crap?
2021-07-07 13:07:44	<--	E7th (~relax@142.169.78.250) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 13:07:45	aiao	to me no diff to openrc
2021-07-07 13:07:48	Psi-Jack	Because they forked debian in hatred to systemd./
2021-07-07 13:07:58	Dagmar	He's butthurt that it's demonstratably more secure than Ubuntu
2021-07-07 13:07:59	Psi-Jack	Not a good reason. :p
2021-07-07 13:08:04	aiao	i dislike systemd too
2021-07-07 13:08:05	vitorgonc	sysvinit is slower
2021-07-07 13:08:11	ananke	pick a distro to run sysvinit, yet not knowing how to use it. recipe for success?
2021-07-07 13:08:14	vitorgonc	than openrc
2021-07-07 13:08:17	aiao	why slower?
2021-07-07 13:08:18	Psi-Jack	aiao: And yet I guarantee you have no valid reason for it.
2021-07-07 13:08:24	-->	smialy2 (~smialy@89-69-104-113.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 13:08:30	aiao	i am not a guru just a user
2021-07-07 13:08:46	Dagmar	I prefer to have as few pieces handing out root shells as possible
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2021-07-07 13:08:50	schillingklaus	only if parallel startup is enabled in openrc
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2021-07-07 13:09:12	vitorgonc	it has way more complex scripts, and if i can remember well it cant run parallel thing
2021-07-07 13:09:23	niko	i'm using the same ~ home for 12 years, and the system keeps upgrading smoothly, thanks debian with apt pinning
2021-07-07 13:09:28	schillingklaus	dagmar is a mega-guru
2021-07-07 13:09:28	Psi-Jack	Either way, sysvinit is literally basically lsb-init. I've said what tools manage it.
2021-07-07 13:09:44	Psi-Jack	Beyond that, learn more about /etc/rcX.d/
2021-07-07 13:09:53	Dagmar	vitorgonc: Which has "more complex scripts"
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2021-07-07 13:10:22	aiao	all this is more theory, maybe you know how disable cups without chmod trick
2021-07-07 13:10:28	vitorgonc	sysvinit
2021-07-07 13:10:35	<--	mikail (~mikail@2a02:c7f:bd83:fd00:55cf:122f:957a:f66f) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:10:38	schillingklaus	as long as it has scripts and not some binary junk, it is on the better side
2021-07-07 13:10:40	Dagmar	vitorgonc: Are you _high_ right now?
2021-07-07 13:10:41	Psi-Jack	aiao: That's wrong. Again.
2021-07-07 13:10:50	vitorgonc	maybe
2021-07-07 13:11:11	Dagmar	vitorgonc: systemd is literally _one point three million_ lines of code
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2021-07-07 13:11:27	drip	he was comparing sysvinit and openrc?
2021-07-07 13:11:29	Psi-Jack	systemd is literally not one program, but multiple programs.
2021-07-07 13:11:29	vitorgonc	i was talking about openrc vs sysvinit
2021-07-07 13:11:35	Dagmar	Ah okay
2021-07-07 13:11:49	Dagmar	Now you understand why I was asking about being high tho.  Heh
2021-07-07 13:11:58	ananke	aiao: use chkconfig. chkconfig cups off ; chkconfig cups-browser off
2021-07-07 13:12:08	<--	valentin (~valentin@2a01:79d:7373:764c::110) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-07-07 13:13:24	aiao	can i paste code here?
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2021-07-07 13:13:30	Psi-Jack	See /topic
2021-07-07 13:13:32	aiao	update-rc.d give error
2021-07-07 13:13:33	schillingklaus	better use termbin or so
2021-07-07 13:13:42	aiao	create paste channel
2021-07-07 13:13:46	aiao	for convenience
2021-07-07 13:13:48	Psi-Jack	See /topic for pastebin.
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2021-07-07 13:14:29	johnnyapol	src/ directory of systemd has code count around ~400k but thats all the utilities. the actual init system was like 2k https://pastebin.com/yXsF4bnj
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2021-07-07 13:14:39	aiao	don't have chkconfig
2021-07-07 13:14:42	Psi-Jack	And don't use pastebin.com they suck and break pastes.
2021-07-07 13:14:57	Psi-Jack	That's something you can install on Debian.
2021-07-07 13:14:59	Dagmar	johnnyapol: If only they'd stopped there
2021-07-07 13:15:06	Psi-Jack	likely that "devuan" as well.
2021-07-07 13:15:13	matsaman	Dagmar: or before there =P
2021-07-07 13:15:20	matsaman	loc in elogind?
2021-07-07 13:15:22	aiao	perhaps i can fix update-rc.d
2021-07-07 13:15:29	aiao	without installing another pack
2021-07-07 13:15:29	Psi-Jack	Or learn how to use it. :p
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2021-07-07 13:15:55	Dagmar	aiao: You know you could probably get away with just _removing_ the CUPS packages
2021-07-07 13:15:55	omero	I disagree with sysv being bad but that its just my opinion... it is bad just because?
2021-07-07 13:16:10	<--	angkat (~angkat@2a02:587:121d:ce82:18f5:64fa:5f95:ec6a) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:16:13	Dagmar	omero: It's not bad.  It just isn't cancerous.
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2021-07-07 13:16:17	aiao	well it loads faster than openrc for me
2021-07-07 13:16:18	omero	sysv stule init scripts...
2021-07-07 13:16:25	aiao	i am quite content
2021-07-07 13:16:36	Dagmar	The speed of init isn't something that should really be used as criteria
2021-07-07 13:16:38	MrElendig	uninstalling cups might not be that easy since a few things likes to depend on it, unless the distro splits out the lib bits
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2021-07-07 13:16:44	Dagmar	Decent systems _don't reboot_ more than a couple times a year
2021-07-07 13:16:58	ananke	'my car can go very fast, I just can't steer it'
2021-07-07 13:17:00	schillingklaus	sysvinit is still great, as opposed to systemd and upstart
2021-07-07 13:17:01	Dagmar	You might as well be rating your init based on it's choice of color palette
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2021-07-07 13:17:09	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: Decent systems reboot at least monthly, for updates. :)
2021-07-07 13:17:11	mesaboogie	ananke: =)
2021-07-07 13:17:16	omero	that is something I can agree with, Dagmar ... actually years is not a factor
2021-07-07 13:17:22	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: install fewer packages everywhere
2021-07-07 13:17:24	drip	i used openrc on a htpc box, because boot time did matter -- also the only place i ever used it
2021-07-07 13:17:25	c705	not with hot patching they don't
2021-07-07 13:17:33	fakuve	hi luuba huuvas . What is the best way to create a persistant log file of journalctl for a specific service?
2021-07-07 13:17:34	aiao	after configuring i won't reboot i promise
2021-07-07 13:17:40	aiao	just i need to disable cups
2021-07-07 13:17:42	Psi-Jack	Dagmar: And have a useless system with nothing running? That's now how you computer.
2021-07-07 13:17:51	Psi-Jack	not*
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2021-07-07 13:18:04	Dagmar	Psi-Jack: I just had to double check for some folks but we've had to deal with apparently no major CVEs this year on my side because I've been building pared-down systems
2021-07-07 13:18:04	fakuve	shall I create a cron task dumping the log every 2 days or so?
2021-07-07 13:18:06	schillingklaus	i reboot several times a day; does not prevent me from using sysvinit + openrc
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2021-07-07 13:18:30	Dagmar	All the "fun" has been happening in 5.x kernels for the most part
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2021-07-07 13:18:34	omero	that is opinable, schillingklaus ...
2021-07-07 13:18:42	aiao	i get this insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) (empty) of script `cups' overrides LSB defaults (2 3 4 5)
2021-07-07 13:18:54	aiao	and update-rc.d fails
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2021-07-07 13:19:13	jaggz	man. I used kde's "switch to another user" thing, but I only have the one account, and I went back in as jaggz, but it's just locked up at some x11 login progress indicator. (Debian testing)
2021-07-07 13:19:13	Dagmar	aiao: That soudns more like you removed _all_ the permissions from the script in question.
2021-07-07 13:19:21	Dagmar	Go set it back to 755 or at least 644
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2021-07-07 13:19:27	aiao	ok
2021-07-07 13:19:48	omero	oh... that would probably answer why someone was wondering why one needs to run an unconventional system then
2021-07-07 13:19:55	omero	its a matter of preference.
2021-07-07 13:19:57	schillingklaus	on antix that is; on freebsd i use its default init thing, which is different but still vastly superior to systemd
2021-07-07 13:20:08	johnnyapol	i havent bothered to configure hibernation so my laptop tends to be cold started quite often. although i finally configured luks2 support in grub so now i have encrypted boot working
2021-07-07 13:20:09	aiao	did not help
2021-07-07 13:20:10	Dagmar	Also sometimes a matter of fewer incidents to report
2021-07-07 13:20:14	aiao	just the same error
2021-07-07 13:20:27	omero	many roads take there. just follow your heart.
2021-07-07 13:20:29	Psi-Jack	schillingklaus: Heh. Uh.. Okay.... bsd-init has always been pretty... bad.
2021-07-07 13:20:41	Dagmar	So pastebin the error, or do what the error messsage is telling you to do
2021-07-07 13:20:57	Dagmar	Who still uses bsd-init that isn't a BSD?
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2021-07-07 13:21:04	omero	berkeley style developement isnt bad.
2021-07-07 13:21:06	Psi-Jack	aiao: "it failed" is as useless as repeating that statement.
2021-07-07 13:21:09	rud0lf	Blue Screen of Death?
2021-07-07 13:21:12	schillingklaus	no, bsd-init is pretty great... lots of scripts
2021-07-07 13:21:55	omero	and can be 'trained' to ones mood, schillingklaus ... yes.
2021-07-07 13:21:56	Dagmar	omero: No, it's a particularly crude init no one that I'm aware of is using anymore
2021-07-07 13:22:11	Dagmar	Not even Slackware (much to the surprise of many Slackware users)
2021-07-07 13:22:22	 *	omero timidly raises a hand...
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2021-07-07 13:22:32	Dagmar	Are you using BSD?
2021-07-07 13:22:38	omero	no.
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2021-07-07 13:22:50	Dagmar	Then you're probably not using bsd-init
2021-07-07 13:23:05	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:23:27	omero	oh wait... you do not understand the concept of 'there are many roads paved with good intentions leading to hell', right Dagmar ?
2021-07-07 13:23:47	Dagmar	omero: What, you willingly refactored your distro to use BSD init?
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2021-07-07 13:23:55	aiao	bash: update-rc.d: command not found
2021-07-07 13:23:59	omero	no Dagmar
2021-07-07 13:24:03	aiao	the last line of error
2021-07-07 13:24:17	ananke	aiao: why don't you ask in their channel, or look up their docs?
2021-07-07 13:24:25	Psi-Jack	^^
2021-07-07 13:24:25	<--	EriC^ (~Eric@178.135.3.255) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:24:29	phoenixes	aiao that indicates update-rc.d doesn't exist
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2021-07-07 13:24:34	omero	I run my own thing. its simple. it runs.
2021-07-07 13:24:36	aiao	they are seldom present there
2021-07-07 13:24:47	Psi-Jack	Great support for a "great" distro ye?
2021-07-07 13:24:54	ananke	aiao: it's like you're trying to showcase arguments against using that distro
2021-07-07 13:24:58	aiao	does sysvinit use it?
2021-07-07 13:25:02	brejela	Old McDonald had a farm, aiao ...
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2021-07-07 13:25:13	omero	nyaaaa!
2021-07-07 13:25:24	Dagmar	aiao: The error you typed into here doesn't indicate a problem with the system it indicates a problem with _you_
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2021-07-07 13:25:49	aiao	wtf
2021-07-07 13:26:11	<--	adanwan (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:26:16	Dagmar	"bash: update-rc.d: command not found" <-- this means what you typed wasn't an executeable command within your $PATH
2021-07-07 13:26:18	omero	aiao, exactly.... blunt but effective.
2021-07-07 13:26:21	miko	PEBMAC
2021-07-07 13:27:04	Dagmar	If you're trying to run that as a normal user, just stop.  Something like that which impacts the actual system as a whole will _always_ need to be run as root
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2021-07-07 13:27:14	omero	ok. seems its troll night... lets be quiet.
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2021-07-07 13:27:44	<--	fef (~thedawn@user/thedawn) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-07 13:27:49	matsaman	same as every other night
2021-07-07 13:28:04	<--	aiao (~onnr@31.29.140.242) has left #linux (Leaving)
2021-07-07 13:28:05	<--	akaWolf (~akaWolf@akawolf.org) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:28:06	matsaman	although also, the same as every other night, people don't really use the word 'troll' correctly
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2021-07-07 13:28:22	Dagmar	"update-rc.d" _is_ the name of the command, which means the most likely cause for the error is it not being in the PATH because you didn't use sudo or anything that would elevate privs and chaneg the PATH to include the place update-rc.d lives
2021-07-07 13:28:28	omero	no.
2021-07-07 13:28:39	Dagmar	A minor but still critical issue
2021-07-07 13:28:42	omero	sorry. could not resist...
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2021-07-07 13:29:17	Dagmar	Reminder: there is nothing wrong with not knowing something
2021-07-07 13:29:29	phoenixes	^
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2021-07-07 13:29:40	omero	nevermind. Im reverting to watch some pr0n videos...
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2021-07-07 13:29:46	Dagmar	Everyone starts out as a drooling idiot.
2021-07-07 13:29:47	Sauvin	... except when you refuse to admit it.
2021-07-07 13:29:51	-->	invra (~invra@mail.aletheianature.es) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 13:29:58	Dagmar	Remaining a drooling idiot is a problem.
2021-07-07 13:30:12	Dagmar	You can type so we know you ain't that
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2021-07-07 13:31:50	schillingklaus	/sbin is usually not in the path of mortal users. There are systems who abandon /sbin, though
2021-07-07 13:32:32	phoenixes	what is the purpose of sbin? script-bin?
2021-07-07 13:32:41	<--	kron (~weechat@user/qaph) has quit (Quit: kron)
2021-07-07 13:33:03	Dagmar	No, it's one of those things from the distant past when you might occasionally find pictures of deer and men hunting with spears written into the init scripts
2021-07-07 13:33:03	MrElendig	phoenixes: in the old days things that should only be available for root and would only be useful for root
2021-07-07 13:33:11	MrElendig	but then society moved on
2021-07-07 13:33:13	phoenixes	ah
2021-07-07 13:33:22	omero	there are some guidelines on what it is supposed to mean... but no one will ever agree on those guidelines phoenixes
2021-07-07 13:33:30	Dagmar	Somewhat meaning "static binaries" and somewhat meaning "superuser binaries"
2021-07-07 13:33:43	MrElendig	a lot of the things traditionally put in sbin have valid use cases as non-root too these days
2021-07-07 13:34:14	<--	randomuser (~randomuse@user/randomuser) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-07 13:34:20	Dagmar	What it was in practice varied from system to system, but usually they were a little bit of both since stuff in /sbin was expected (pronounced: "required") to still be usabled if you somehow set /usr and /lib on fdire
2021-07-07 13:34:36	Dagmar	s/useabled/useable/ s/fdire/fire/
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2021-07-07 13:34:43	MrElendig	man hier
2021-07-07 13:34:53	omero	it is precisely what it means 'all roads takes one home. just take one and be content'
2021-07-07 13:34:56	MrElendig	or read the full pdf
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2021-07-07 13:35:35	MrElendig	https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs-3.0.html#sbinSystemBinaries
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2021-07-07 13:35:58	MrElendig	no one follows the fhs anymore
2021-07-07 13:36:01	matsaman	man hier, isn't that what Hitler said?! =P
2021-07-07 13:36:03	omero	that is something I will never agree with, MrElendig
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2021-07-07 13:36:25	MrElendig	omero: that no one follows it? everyone breaks it in somewhat different ways
2021-07-07 13:36:27	Dagmar	MrElendig: Find one distro that is 100% compliant with either spec
2021-07-07 13:36:30	MrElendig	even the bsd's
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2021-07-07 13:36:42	Dagmar	They're "guidelines" and generally treated as such
2021-07-07 13:37:07	omero	thus... I am not the only eretic to be burned on a stake
2021-07-07 13:37:12	Dagmar	I was impressed that there were even people willing to stick their necks out like that
2021-07-07 13:37:15	schillingklaus	/usr is also increasingly unpopular
2021-07-07 13:37:27	 *	phoenixes proceeds to read the specs as linked
2021-07-07 13:37:32	MrElendig	schillingklaus: kinda the opposite
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2021-07-07 13:37:47	MrElendig	schillingklaus: "most" stuff everything into /usr these days
2021-07-07 13:38:03	Dagmar	I will say it beats the hell out of having no official looking resource to point to when you want to have someone peeled and dipped in salt for createing /usr/local/etc
2021-07-07 13:38:16	omero	I dislike such things. I want to be my own... and I have been trained. to be one.
2021-07-07 13:38:32	<--	aklis (~aklis@user/aklis) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 13:38:46	Dagmar	I found a /usr/opt/etc in the wild once even
2021-07-07 13:38:49	omero	but I do like to talk. and I can get fancy.
2021-07-07 13:39:27	schillingklaus	/usr/local/etc exists in freebsd
2021-07-07 13:40:17	omero	and I agree with that. it makes sense if you think about it... and no, I am not trolling... Im just saying something.
2021-07-07 13:40:35	omero	it makes sense from logical stantpoint.
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2021-07-07 13:40:50	omero	what is standard?
2021-07-07 13:40:56	omero	what is fashion?
2021-07-07 13:41:13	omero	now ... lets talk about bikinis...
2021-07-07 13:41:16	--	Mode #linux [+o lacroix] by ChanServ
2021-07-07 13:41:18	phoenixes	a standard is used as reference
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2021-07-07 13:41:28	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@user/omero] by lacroix
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2021-07-07 13:42:20	<--	lacroix has kicked omero (what do you know about bikinis?)
2021-07-07 13:42:37	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
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2021-07-07 13:43:16	Dagmar	*gigglesnort*
2021-07-07 13:43:21	lacroix	apologies for this everyone
2021-07-07 13:43:27	Dagmar	That was funny but it was a bit overkill
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2021-07-07 13:45:57	goddard	you all think wifi 6 is good enough for steam streaming?
2021-07-07 13:46:12	Dagmar	Uh that depends
2021-07-07 13:46:23	phoenixes	depends on how much data you're stuffing through
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2021-07-07 13:46:39	Dagmar	Are you bright enough to actually enable 5Ghz and channel bonding?
2021-07-07 13:46:56	Dagmar	"wifi 6" by itself only refers to a set of _capabilities_
2021-07-07 13:47:06	MrElendig	goddard: ymmv, depends on signal quality etc
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2021-07-07 13:47:23	MrElendig	goddard: if you have LOS and are 5 meters away from the ap, sure
2021-07-07 13:47:38	MrElendig	over a 3km link trough a forrest? heck no
2021-07-07 13:47:41	Dagmar	If you live inside a tin can or something made of reinforced concrete, you'd better be in the same room with the AP
2021-07-07 13:47:58	phoenixes	i think the distro im using at first glance appears to comply with the specs as defined, but i will look closer.
2021-07-07 13:47:59	Dagmar	5Ghz doesn't suffer attenuation through walls very well
2021-07-07 13:48:02	MrElendig	note: steam streaming sucks even over ethernet
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2021-07-07 13:48:20	Dagmar	I've used it a couple times.  It seemed to work just fine
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2021-07-07 13:48:48	Dagmar	Granted, I *do* check to make sure all my networking stuff is working properly and not choking on some printer somewhere
2021-07-07 13:48:51	MrElendig	its not that bw intensive btw, maxes out at about 30mbit
2021-07-07 13:49:06	Dagmar	Yeah Iv'e got gigglebit everywhere in the house
2021-07-07 13:49:10	MrElendig	it cares much more about packet loss etc
2021-07-07 13:49:27	MrElendig	congested wifi will trash it quite easily
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2021-07-07 13:49:37	Dagmar	I've also got enough APs on hardline that it's hard to be more than 20 feet away from one
2021-07-07 13:49:53	lacroix	phoenixes: sometimes sbin is for static binaries, useful when booting so that shared libraries need not be present.  sometimes sbin is for programs that only or mostly are used by admins.  sometimes it doesn't exist, or doesn't really exist as in it might be a symlink to /bin/.
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2021-07-07 13:50:13	lacroix	phoenixes: posix says nothing about any of that.
2021-07-07 13:50:28	lacroix	(other standards might.)
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2021-07-07 13:51:07	euouae	Does Posix talk about fs hierarchy?
2021-07-07 13:51:16	ryantrinkle	is there a way to get systemd to give me a shell in the environment a service runs in?
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2021-07-07 13:51:33	ryantrinkle	I need to add an SSH key for syncoid to connect to other machines, and I can't figure out where its home directory lives
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2021-07-07 13:51:50	lacroix	euouae: No
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2021-07-07 13:52:06	TJ-	ryantrinkle: start off with "systemctl cat <name-of-servoce>" to see if the service config provides a clue
2021-07-07 13:52:45	Sauvin	If you want to read something about HD/FS organisation, have a gawk at `man hier`
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2021-07-07 13:53:04	Dagmar	euouae: That's left up to implementors
2021-07-07 13:53:16	Dagmar	euouae: The TL;DR is that they knew better than to get involved
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2021-07-07 13:53:51	MrElendig	ryantrinkle: unless overriden it will be the home dir of the user it is executed as
2021-07-07 13:53:54	Sauvin	If you have it, also look at man file-hierarchy
2021-07-07 13:54:06	Dagmar	ryantrinkle: It's homedir is wherever /etc/passwd says it is, but you can also just tell your ssh command which key to use
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2021-07-07 13:54:46	ryantrinkle	Dagmar: oh right, of course, lol!  OK, I was thinking this was one of those fancy new transient users, but it actually isn't
2021-07-07 13:54:48	ryantrinkle	thanks folks
2021-07-07 13:54:58	Dagmar	No problem
2021-07-07 13:55:05	euouae	I am reading the gentoo page on the file system hierarchy since that’s what I’ll use
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2021-07-07 13:56:32	lacroix	euouae: if it said something about the fs heirarchy it would be harder to get concensus.
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2021-07-07 13:57:22	lacroix	euouae: so it's left to implementors as Dagmar said.
2021-07-07 13:57:23	Dagmar	Signs indicating that was the right call to make... here it is THIRTY YEARS LATER and people still waffle between two vaguely similar documents
2021-07-07 13:58:09	lacroix	Sauvin: are you around?
2021-07-07 13:58:31	Dagmar	We're really lucky no Mac fanatics have bouhgt up a distribution and converted it over to using a "semantic-oriented, tag-based hierarchy"
2021-07-07 13:58:40	-->	rtx (~rtx@user/rtx) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 13:58:57	phoenixes	why would mac fanatics even buy up a distribution
2021-07-07 13:59:09	Dagmar	To show they had the money to spend
2021-07-07 13:59:15	Sauvin	I'm more asquare than around, putting myself together to go to work.
2021-07-07 13:59:26	lacroix	Dagmar: hp, ibm, sun, ..., have some things similar, and some things wildly different.
2021-07-07 13:59:28	phoenixes	but they're fans of mac... so why use linux
2021-07-07 13:59:36	Dagmar	lacroix: You left out VMS.
2021-07-07 13:59:39	Dagmar	Muahahahah
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2021-07-07 13:59:53	lacroix	*laughs*
2021-07-07 14:00:00	lacroix	Dagmar is good.. he is very good.
2021-07-07 14:00:00	Dagmar	VMS comes pretty close
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2021-07-07 14:01:02	lacroix	if we include non-posix o/s there is a very long list. :)
2021-07-07 14:01:24	Sauvin	I remember trying to navigate my girlfriend's Mac. It was... YISH.
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2021-07-07 14:01:40	Dagmar	I spent a number of years administrating machines based on whether or not I could find a way to login
2021-07-07 14:01:45	Dagmar	I've seen some terrible things
2021-07-07 14:01:47	euouae	I am working on a project to liberate files from Filepaths
2021-07-07 14:02:02	euouae	it may be a horrible thing or very useful !
2021-07-07 14:02:21	lacroix	apple (who you mentioned), hp, ibm, and oracle have posix systems, and voted on posix and unix standards.
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2021-07-07 14:04:51	Sauvin	euouae, "liberate"?
2021-07-07 14:04:57	SpeakerToMeat	You know, people always say if they had a time machine they'd go back and kill hittler. I probably would do that, but the second stop for sure would be to convince the first browser that implemented javascript to implement python instead
2021-07-07 14:05:02	phoenixes	euouae how will you find the files without a filepath
2021-07-07 14:05:16	euouae	Search metadata
2021-07-07 14:05:28	phoenixes	but what if you have a 1TB drive
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2021-07-07 14:05:45	euouae	Custom index
2021-07-07 14:05:50	Dagmar	Everything just becomes an O(n) search.  I'm sure that'll be fine
2021-07-07 14:05:51	euouae	Manually curated
2021-07-07 14:06:02	brejela	euouae: You want to access a drive _ONLY_ with metadata?
2021-07-07 14:06:10	brejela	Dagmar: lol exactly my thoughts
2021-07-07 14:06:13	euouae	Y’all don’t get it
2021-07-07 14:06:23	euouae	Maybe criticize final product :p
2021-07-07 14:06:41	Dagmar	No, I suspect it's more a matter of we've tried these things and have seen in a first-person sort of way how broken they are
2021-07-07 14:06:56	euouae	Dagmar:  really? Like what
2021-07-07 14:07:16	Sauvin	Just do what CP/M did: everything is on the root directory.
2021-07-07 14:07:34	euouae	Dagmar: also, lol https://www.usds.gov/assets/img/banner--home-sm.jpg
2021-07-07 14:07:52	euouae	it’sa solution for me that works for my problem. Might be helpful to others
2021-07-07 14:08:24	Dagmar	It'll be slow.
2021-07-07 14:08:39	euouae	Why?
2021-07-07 14:08:46	euouae	I’m telling you manually curated.
2021-07-07 14:08:54	Dagmar	Slow enough that someone will come around later and patch it to have a layer that goes back to the normal tree-with-subdirs approach and then just map _your_ stuff to it
2021-07-07 14:09:15	euouae	You don’t get it, it’s user land stuff
2021-07-07 14:09:23	euouae	 I’m not replacing the fs
2021-07-07 14:09:23	Dagmar	Unless you're talking about using a mechanical turk to solve the problem, you're looking in the wrong direction
2021-07-07 14:09:31	lacroix	euouae.. enjoy this discussion with the guys. I'm off to cook.
2021-07-07 14:09:42	euouae	Good luck! Don’t burn it
2021-07-07 14:09:52	brejela	Dagmar: Let him(her?) do it. THe worst that could happen is he's gonna have a very sucky way to deal with files XD
2021-07-07 14:09:53	Dagmar	There's no problem with associating tags and metadata with files
2021-07-07 14:10:03	Dagmar	There's a problem trying to use that _instead_ of filepaths
2021-07-07 14:10:04	euouae	Tags suck
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2021-07-07 14:10:13	euouae	I want a Google for my files
2021-07-07 14:10:27	euouae	That’s what I’m making
2021-07-07 14:10:33	Dagmar	At best you wind up having to still do a search through a large list of "all the things"
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2021-07-07 14:10:37	Sauvin	So you want to "enhance" an FS with a superimposed metadatabase?
2021-07-07 14:10:37	lacroix	euouae: Thanks. Keep in mind: paths are just a way of categorizing things, but you can think of it as merely making unique names.
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2021-07-07 14:11:08	euouae	Yeah it’s software unrelated to fs sauvin
2021-07-07 14:11:24	hodapp	hmm this makes me think of what BeFS attempted
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2021-07-07 14:11:34	euouae	The use will be quick accessibility of files
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2021-07-07 14:11:40	euouae	And backup
2021-07-07 14:11:40	Sauvin	I'm think you're talking about excess use of system resources for minimal to nonexistent gain.
2021-07-07 14:11:50	euouae	You’ve no idea
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2021-07-07 14:12:03	euouae	There’s legitimate use cases
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2021-07-07 14:12:20	euouae	I have hundreds of pdfs I can’t remember where I put them
2021-07-07 14:12:28	Sauvin	You're right, I don't. I've investigated similar things in the past and found that re-organising the directory hierarchy did wonders for file accss times, if that's what you're after.
2021-07-07 14:12:41	hodapp	euouae: perhaps for inspiration look at how BeOS did it with their filesystem
2021-07-07 14:13:03	Sauvin	What did BeOS do?
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2021-07-07 14:13:13	Dagmar	THey know what they did.
2021-07-07 14:13:20	Sauvin	I don't!
2021-07-07 14:13:25	euouae	Hodapp the entir e thing is mapped out in my head
2021-07-07 14:13:42	euouae	I’m 80% done on features but I haven’t released a single version yet
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2021-07-07 14:13:57	euouae	I’m working on this kinda slowly due to job
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2021-07-07 14:14:44	euouae	Is a manually curated library of files with scripts available
2021-07-07 14:15:13	euouae	For example there will be backup capability , as a script !
2021-07-07 14:15:40	caterfxo	...?
2021-07-07 14:15:40	hodapp	euouae: the difference is that in BeOS it was actually implemented, not just mapped out in someone's dead
2021-07-07 14:15:47	hodapp	so it may be valuable to refer to
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2021-07-07 14:16:12	euouae	I can do “—search :book :author:will*”
2021-07-07 14:16:23	euouae	And I’ll get the works of Shakespeare
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2021-07-07 14:16:53	euouae	Witr options to select which and to run which script ; for instance “launch” script to open it as pdf
2021-07-07 14:16:57	caterfxo	sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines
2021-07-07 14:17:01	Sauvin	So what you're really talking about is cataloging your PDFs?
2021-07-07 14:17:11	euouae	Yeah but not just pdf
2021-07-07 14:17:18	euouae	Note files, media files etc
2021-07-07 14:17:41	Sauvin	I withdraw my original position. I thought you were talking about meta-somethinging the entire FS.
2021-07-07 14:17:46	euouae	I’ve done a market search no solution for my exact problem is available
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2021-07-07 14:18:13	euouae	no problem sauvin I’m not coupling it to the fs and it’s not all files
2021-07-07 14:18:21	Sauvin	Lot of data entry, though. I'd investigate an RDBMS with json datatypes.
2021-07-07 14:18:36	Sauvin	That said, I'm off to the salt mines.
2021-07-07 14:18:50	euouae	I’m using xapian
2021-07-07 14:18:57	euouae	For its FTS features
2021-07-07 14:19:12	euouae	Hey ho hey ho off to work we go
2021-07-07 14:19:17	djph	euouae: so... you want to duplicate the public library's catalogue system?
2021-07-07 14:19:26	euouae	Yeah kind of
2021-07-07 14:19:31	djph	(although, it was leaps and bounds better when it wasn't a fucking web search)
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2021-07-07 14:20:04	euouae	I want a public library system lookalike with script ability
2021-07-07 14:21:03	euouae	That you can backup on a usb . If you care about contents more than file path it’s great
2021-07-07 14:21:17	euouae	You can save paths to if you want; it can be part of the emetadata
2021-07-07 14:21:33	caterfxo	start coding it
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2021-07-07 14:21:42	euouae	I wrote   it in Python
2021-07-07 14:21:53	euouae	It’s pretty close to done
2021-07-07 14:22:01	djph	pfft, paths are for suckers.  Use the Dewey Decimal System :D
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2021-07-07 14:22:58	euouae	Because my life sucks this thing makes me very excited
2021-07-07 14:23:03	caterfxo	LC was always easier for me for some reason
2021-07-07 14:23:14	euouae	 lol man… the things people do to escape the dread
2021-07-07 14:23:17	themachine	djph: make an LFS system and everything is organized that way
2021-07-07 14:23:54	djph	themachine: pff, I miss the old unix terminals the libraries used for the catalogue.
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2021-07-07 14:58:08	webstrand	Is there a command like `nointr some-process-that-spawns-subprocesses` that'll prevent SIGINT from being sent to all of the subprocesses on CTRL+C?
2021-07-07 14:58:54	webstrand	I can write my own, but I'd rather not have to ship a binary around with my project, just to do this. It seems like it's something that should already exist
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2021-07-07 15:05:27	drip	for what its worth, in bash you can do: trap '' SIGINT && command
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2021-07-07 15:10:40	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-07-07 15:10:50	webstrand	drip: That's a lot closer to what I want than anything else. Is it possible to kill -INT just the `command` and none of its children when SIGINT is trapped?
2021-07-07 15:10:59	akik	byte4byte: hey idiot
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2021-07-07 15:14:23	drip	i dont think so that way, since bash handles the trap when the command completes
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2021-07-07 15:17:03	drip	how are the subprocesses being spawned?
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2021-07-07 15:19:08	mib_p4hzf6	thus, lacroix what do you know about bikinis_
2021-07-07 15:19:12	webstrand	drip: the `command` itself is spawning the subprocesses. I may be misunderstanding, but since the subprocesses are part of the foreground process group they get sent SIGINT on ctrl+c
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2021-07-07 15:20:20	webstrand	sometimes that SIGINT arrives to the subprocess before the parent has seen it
2021-07-07 15:20:21	byte4byte	thug life
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2021-07-07 15:21:50	webstrand	if I could set the process group of `command`, that'd solve the issue, too.
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2021-07-07 15:35:47	Dagmar	webstrand: You could always just send the signal to the process instead of the whole process group, but there's some complexity involved there
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2021-07-07 15:36:10	drip	i mean like is it a bash script running it, a program fork()ing or system() or exec() or...
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2021-07-07 15:37:15	webstrand	ah the command is fork/execing a whole bunch of subprocesses, it's not a script or a program I can modify the behavior of
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2021-07-07 15:37:24	Dagmar	you don't really get any control over which processes get the signal first.  That comes down to something else entirely.
2021-07-07 15:37:34	Dagmar	Plus on a multi-core system those processes could be literally anywher
2021-07-07 15:38:05	webstrand	Dagmar: The trouble is that the signal is triggered by the user pressing ctrl-c
2021-07-07 15:38:14	Dagmar	eOkay
2021-07-07 15:38:21	webstrand	I don't want the subprocesses signalled at all, the parent is responsible for reaping them
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2021-07-07 15:39:10	Dagmar	So move them into a different process group.
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2021-07-07 15:39:51	webstrand	that's what I'm not sure how to do. I can write a c program that'll do it, I have one already: https://dpaste.com/DVZRBBZU5
2021-07-07 15:39:52	drip	maybe you could have a shell script trap sigint, run the process in the background (so the script gets the SIGINT), have it 'wait', and then on the sigint trap sent the signal to the backgrounded process
2021-07-07 15:39:56	Dagmar	You're allowed to do that (although it's not terriblye obvious)
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2021-07-07 15:40:15	webstrand	but I don't know how to set the process group without a c compiler
2021-07-07 15:40:18	Dagmar	Well, it's the terminal that's catching the ^C and turning it into SIGINT
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2021-07-07 15:40:31	Dagmar	...and it sends to the process group with no way to chaneg it that I've ever looked for.
2021-07-07 15:40:55	blackgatonegro	So.. if two factor auth depends on a smartphone, how is that safer that a very long password?
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2021-07-07 15:41:25	Dagmar	As per usual, Stack Overflow breaks it down https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6549663/how-to-set-process-group-of-a-shell-script
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2021-07-07 15:41:45	blackgatonegro	You can say... it had an overflow
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2021-07-07 15:41:55	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Because security is more than just an ever growing string of numbers.
2021-07-07 15:42:10	randomjoe	bikiniiiiiiiiiii!
2021-07-07 15:42:11	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: What _role_ the phone is performing matters.
2021-07-07 15:42:21	RedNifre_	Which filesystem should I use for an external 1TB drive?
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2021-07-07 15:42:26	RedNifre_	I mean 4TB
2021-07-07 15:42:42	blackgatonegro	Dagmar I know some people that uf they depended on their phone to be secure, would be utterly f*ck*d
2021-07-07 15:43:13	blackgatonegro	The lose smartphones/get them stolen/broken more that once a year kind of people.
2021-07-07 15:43:22	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: What it comes down to is that there are three basic types of challenges for authentication.  1.  Something you *know*, like a password.  2.  Something you *have*, like a physical key or cryptographic nonce that cannot be duplicated, and 3. Something you *are*, like a biometric handprint, fingerprint, sphincterprint, or iris scan
2021-07-07 15:43:43	Dagmar	"Two-factor" authentication means having more than one of those two _categories_
2021-07-07 15:43:57	Dagmar	Using two passwords is *not* two-factor auth.
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2021-07-07 15:44:22	Dagmar	...and a TOTP is not a password because it's not something you _know_.  It's a cryptographic proof of something you _have_
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2021-07-07 15:44:53	Dagmar	These categories have been around since long before computers.
2021-07-07 15:45:00	blackgatonegro	Honesty we are in the 2020s, SMS should bo longer be used for anything but emergency services.  Using it for two factor auth?
2021-07-07 15:45:04	Dagmar	They're straight from the days of "Guns, Guards, and Dogs"
2021-07-07 15:45:23	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Because it's a weak form of 'something you have'
2021-07-07 15:45:33	Dagmar	Freakin' bank pin codes are FOUR DIGITS.
2021-07-07 15:45:38	phoenixes	still
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2021-07-07 15:45:57	Dagmar	It's far easier to shoulder-surf someone's ATM card code than it is to clone someone's SIM card.
2021-07-07 15:46:23	blackgatonegro	Yeah, they did add 3 letters for some years but now they don't even ask the 3 letters anymore.
2021-07-07 15:46:26	Dagmar	...but the fact that it's entirely separate from the "something you know" category means that together they are stronger than any one
2021-07-07 15:47:13	blackgatonegro	You don't need to clone a sim card, SMS is decades old and never got updated, it has been completely cracked ages ago.
2021-07-07 15:47:21	Dagmar	Suuure it has
2021-07-07 15:47:30	Dagmar	That's why I haev this nice device here next to me printing out people's SMS messages
2021-07-07 15:47:46	Dagmar	That's a thing I used to do with pager services.
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2021-07-07 15:47:55	sysRPL	for the record ... fuck ms windows
2021-07-07 15:48:04	sysRPL	fuck it to hell
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2021-07-07 15:48:27	MrElendig	it would probably like that
2021-07-07 15:48:30	Dagmar	SMS are not broadcast in cleartext.
2021-07-07 15:48:34	MrElendig	how about torturing it instead?
2021-07-07 15:48:44	Dagmar	...unlike pagers.
2021-07-07 15:48:54	blackgatonegro	https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/03/16-attack-let-hacker-intercept-a-t-mobile-users-text-messages/
2021-07-07 15:48:59	MrElendig	open the video player and play some DDE on repeat
2021-07-07 15:49:17	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: So what
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2021-07-07 15:49:34	Dagmar	At no point is that an SMS vulnerability
2021-07-07 15:49:54	Dagmar	That's an attack on the cell service provider being an idiot.
2021-07-07 15:49:57	sysRPL	MrElendig: Dynamic Data Exchange? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dataxchg/about-dynamic-data-exchange
2021-07-07 15:50:08	Dagmar	...and again, there should be a _second factor_ like a _password_ involved
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2021-07-07 15:50:17	sysRPL	that's some pre COM shit right there
2021-07-07 15:50:24	bewees	Compiled QEMU with virtil3d support, getting this error when trying to start up my VM "Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused" https://dpaste.com/8RL5NCA25
2021-07-07 15:50:26	Dagmar	Literally BECAUSE it's an order of magnitude harder to compromise multiple authentication challenge methods.
2021-07-07 15:50:30	matsaman	blackgatonegro: sounds like he had physical access
2021-07-07 15:50:41	matsaman	or other direct access to the phone
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2021-07-07 15:51:15	Dagmar	matsaman: No, he basically just social engineered a provider into issuing a redirection of the SMS to a new device
2021-07-07 15:51:23	matsaman	I have heard, though, that the NSA is storing all our encrypted information in case they feel like cracking it in the future
2021-07-07 15:51:26	bewees	Added /usr/local/<share/bin>QEMU to `/etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.libvirtd`
2021-07-07 15:51:27	matsaman	which is believable enough
2021-07-07 15:51:28	MrElendig	sysRPL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbaIZ7WryZQ
2021-07-07 15:51:32	Dagmar	matsaman: You would be correct
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2021-07-07 15:51:41	matsaman	Dagmar: yeah he dumb
2021-07-07 15:52:23	blackgatonegro	https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+easy+is+to+get+access+to+someone+sms
2021-07-07 15:52:39	matsaman	bewees: we used to have a #kvm or #qemu, they should be able to help with that
2021-07-07 15:52:41	sysRPL	Aw, Snap~ Somethign went wrong when displaying this webpage. Error Code: SIGILL
2021-07-07 15:52:51	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: You might be interested to know that with a pipe wrench and 20 minutes I can probably defeat any password protection
2021-07-07 15:52:52	bewees	matsaman: thanks I'll hop over there
2021-07-07 15:52:52	matsaman	most people are just as gullible about everything else
2021-07-07 15:52:56	matsaman	bank account information
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2021-07-07 15:53:04	matsaman	credit card info
2021-07-07 15:53:05	Dagmar	You don't see me running aroudn yelling "EVERYONE SHOULD STOP USING PASSWAORDS"
2021-07-07 15:53:23	matsaman	I do try and say 'passphrase' these days, though
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2021-07-07 15:53:31	Dagmar	Being paranoid is not an acceptable substitute for knowing things
2021-07-07 15:53:33	matsaman	makes it easier to slide someone into not using a really short POS password
2021-07-07 15:53:41	matsaman	not remotely acceptable
2021-07-07 15:53:59	Dagmar	Being paranoid is, by definition, a mental problem.
2021-07-07 15:54:06	sysRPL	i have a system to maintain different passwords for every site i visit
2021-07-07 15:54:09	matsaman	and it's weird to spell
2021-07-07 15:54:15	matsaman	then you gotta 'splain how to spell it
2021-07-07 15:54:22	sysRPL	my password for each site it the name of the site spelled backwards
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2021-07-07 15:54:32	matsaman	sysRPL: lulllll
2021-07-07 15:54:45	sysRPL	so for example, my paypal password is lapyap
2021-07-07 15:54:50	matsaman	classic
2021-07-07 15:54:51	blackgatonegro	Being too trusting is a one road path to hell
2021-07-07 15:54:54	sysRPL	it's genius
2021-07-07 15:55:03	sysRPL	and i noever forget my passwords
2021-07-07 15:55:06	matsaman	it's totes ingenioos [sic]
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2021-07-07 15:56:27	CPUOne	Passwords are AWESOME
2021-07-07 15:56:48	sysRPL	but my system doesn't work for palindrome websites
2021-07-07 15:57:24	blackgatonegro	Social engineering has been using a lot during this pandemic. Over a year later we are finally getting TV ads about it around here.
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2021-07-07 16:03:41	Topco	no
2021-07-07 16:03:45	Topco	i could do better
2021-07-07 16:03:58	phoenixes	give an example then
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2021-07-07 16:05:05	Topco	star wars
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2021-07-07 16:06:09	blackgatonegro	Star Wars? Have a small robot keep all your data?
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2021-07-07 16:06:22	blackgatonegro	Better not lose the robot then.
2021-07-07 16:06:30	phoenixes	what if it uploads your data lol
2021-07-07 16:07:01	blackgatonegro	phoenixes No longer fiction
2021-07-07 16:07:15	phoenixes	oh
2021-07-07 16:07:29	Dagmar	What if it _seeks out_ the rebels and _gives_ them your data?
2021-07-07 16:07:29	caterfxo	sadly, not all of the dictionaries seem to agree on that point, Dagmar
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2021-07-07 16:07:41	Dagmar	caterfxo: What dictionaries?
2021-07-07 16:07:55	blackgatonegro	Yeah... it has been quite interesting and terrific to see it happen in real life.
2021-07-07 16:08:45	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-07-07 16:08:54	Topco	star wars babe
2021-07-07 16:08:59	caterfxo	oh, re definition of paranoid?
2021-07-07 16:09:19	Dagmar	"of, characterized by, or suffering from the mental condition of paranoia."
2021-07-07 16:09:22	<--	tstruk (~tstruk@176.67.86.153) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 16:09:27	Topco	thats me
2021-07-07 16:09:43	blackgatonegro	Eh just talking about how robots went from fiction to stealing your data, controlling yoir heater, stealing your job...
2021-07-07 16:09:47	blackgatonegro	the usual
2021-07-07 16:09:53	Dagmar	Paranoia is an illness.  Actually _being_ beset from all sides is acceptance of reality and not paranoia.
2021-07-07 16:10:51	HumbleGuy	why i get this warning at boot? https://i.imgur.com/vGRyt7J.jpg
2021-07-07 16:10:59	Dagmar	I *used* to be paranoid literally as a hobby.  Then for awhile I actually had people trying to odd me.  Trust me there's a big differencce.
2021-07-07 16:11:06	Dagmar	s/odd/off/
2021-07-07 16:11:21	blackgatonegro	A handfull of companies have all your data, because you have it to them. There is no getting the genie back in the bottle.
2021-07-07 16:11:31	Topco	i take medication for my paranoia
2021-07-07 16:12:53	phoenixes	HumbleGuy, if possible use a pastebin/text instead of a picture.
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2021-07-07 16:13:34	HumbleGuy	phoenixes, i don't think its possible, its in a raw terminal
2021-07-07 16:13:43	Dagmar	HumbleGuy: Which warning?
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2021-07-07 16:13:57	Dagmar	The one about sshd should be pretty obvious
2021-07-07 16:13:58	HumbleGuy	the warning is talking abiut Modem Manager
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2021-07-07 16:14:44	Dagmar	There's no warning about ModemManager there
2021-07-07 16:14:54	Dagmar	There's just badly handled output from some script
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2021-07-07 16:15:11	Dagmar	Note the placement of "<info>"
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2021-07-07 16:15:37	phoenixes	i think you mean networkmanager or smth
2021-07-07 16:15:40	Dagmar	If it were something worthy of being worried about, they'd classify it as <warning> not <info>
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2021-07-07 16:19:45	blackgatonegro	So is ubuntu changing the default type of deb files they use good or bad?
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2021-07-07 16:20:08	Mathisen	changing the default type of deb files ?
2021-07-07 16:20:10	c705	it depends
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2021-07-07 16:20:46	HumbleGuy	does that mean that build from debian and ubuntu won't be comaptible?
2021-07-07 16:21:04	c705	what?
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2021-07-07 16:25:16	blackgatonegro	https://www.osnews.com/story/133670/ubuntu-switches-to-zstd-compressed-debs/
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2021-07-07 16:32:22	pyzozord	hey, I want a small floating windows with youtube on my screen, I'm on ubuntu 20.04, any suggestions?
2021-07-07 16:32:43	MrElendig	pyzozord: use a modern web browser and enable the mini player feature
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2021-07-07 16:33:11	pyzozord	MrElendig: I'm using chromium, doesnt seem to have that
2021-07-07 16:33:18	MrElendig	or just run a small web browser window without decoration
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2021-07-07 16:34:05	MrElendig	right click -> pip mode
2021-07-07 16:34:42	MrElendig	or click the miniplayer icon on the yt video?
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2021-07-07 16:35:10	pyzozord	MrElendig: that works only in the browser, i need the window to float on desktop over other programs
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2021-07-07 16:36:01	Dagmar	So use a window manager that allows you to make a window modal
2021-07-07 16:36:04	Dagmar	...or sticky
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2021-07-07 16:36:26	MrElendig	borderless electron window
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2021-07-07 16:36:44	Dagmar	Yeah it's really only a few simple javascript functions
2021-07-07 16:37:05	MrElendig	https://github.com/kamranahmedse/pennywise
2021-07-07 16:37:08	scpxor	sudo pacman -S smtube
2021-07-07 16:37:09	MrElendig	or something actually maintained
2021-07-07 16:37:19	MrElendig	that was just the first google hit :p
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2021-07-07 16:38:28	MrElendig	chromium --kiosk youtube.com
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2021-07-07 16:38:42	MrElendig	and tell your wm to float it somewhere
2021-07-07 16:38:43	pyzozord	that might actually work
2021-07-07 16:39:18	pyzozord	eh it doesnt have that option
2021-07-07 16:40:04	MrElendig	my build does
2021-07-07 16:40:19	MrElendig	91.0.4472.114-1
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2021-07-07 16:41:32	pyzozord	huh i got the same version, all it does for me is open a normal tab
2021-07-07 16:42:01	Dagmar	THe --kiosk functionality is fairly hit-or-miss
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2021-07-07 16:45:05	MrElendig	did you have chromium already running?
2021-07-07 16:45:21	MrElendig	forgot to disable the "run in background on exit" feature?
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2021-07-07 16:47:03	pyzozord	yeah i did have chromium running in bg
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2021-07-07 16:47:39	pyzozord	oh nice good call yeah i always want this disabled and i did have it disabled
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2021-07-07 16:48:27	pyzozord	still the same though
2021-07-07 16:48:36	pyzozord	well nevermind ill try another time
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2021-07-07 16:54:01	Topco	i want to spend a few $$ on a new linux computer
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2021-07-07 16:56:22	MrElendig	kinda a bad time to buy hardware
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2021-07-07 16:56:44	MrElendig	but then again except for gfx cards it will probably get worse before it gets better
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2021-07-07 16:56:57	Topco	i know i know
2021-07-07 16:57:15	Dagmar	Well, it looks like we're in the middle of the mess, so it might just get better
2021-07-07 16:57:19	Dagmar	...but it's going to take six months
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2021-07-07 16:57:39	MrElendig	storage and ram prices are predicted to go up by atleast 50%
2021-07-07 16:57:41	Topco	i'm not too smart
2021-07-07 16:57:49	Dagmar	Could be as little as three, but that's really expecting a lot from a rather complex supply chain
2021-07-07 16:58:13	Topco	i use puppy linux so i have some room for what is acceptable
2021-07-07 16:59:01	felco	ok ok ubuntu is ded
2021-07-07 16:59:11	felco	debian lives
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2021-07-07 17:00:09	c705	my buddy just got his hands on a gpu, I think it's starting to move again
2021-07-07 17:00:09	esselfe	wow just discovered that, it's this month :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Administrator_Appreciation_Day
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2021-07-07 17:00:15	Topco	puppy linux will be the wolrds last hope
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2021-07-07 17:00:49	c705	system admin appreciation day. are you joking me
2021-07-07 17:00:52	felco	Linux sun 4.19.0-17-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.194-2 (2021-06-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux
2021-07-07 17:00:56	MrElendig	c705: they are available and have even dropped a bit in price, but it's still 1000€ for a 400€ midrange gpu
2021-07-07 17:01:04	Dagmar	c705: Oh yeah places really roll out the red carpet for us
2021-07-07 17:01:07	MrElendig	felco: such old
2021-07-07 17:01:09	Dagmar	*snicker*
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2021-07-07 17:01:29	felco	if I wanted a bleeding edge kernel I would build gentoo install
2021-07-07 17:01:37	c705	every day is system admin appreciation day, else i'm changing your password expiry duration to 10 days good luck
2021-07-07 17:01:49	Dagmar	c705: That's the spirit!
2021-07-07 17:02:00	Topco	blessed
2021-07-07 17:02:03	c705	MrElendig: i'm guessing the days of 400$ midrange gpus are over. for now anyways
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2021-07-07 17:02:40	Topco	i want to be honest, the only gaming i do i rimworld.
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2021-07-07 17:02:46	Dagmar	I think we can fix this problem by making it illegal for anyone under the age of 25 to own a GPU capable of doing glxgears at more than 30fps at 1090 resolution
2021-07-07 17:02:59	akoana	c705: I guess you meant password expiry duration 10 base 2 ;)
2021-07-07 17:03:56	MrElendig	my 5700xt runs glxgears at about 8fps
2021-07-07 17:04:00	MrElendig	so that's fine
2021-07-07 17:04:03	phoenixes	Dagmar, can't wait for kids to whine and then their parents rage. (maybe)
2021-07-07 17:04:36	--	hobuster is now known as ghostbuster
2021-07-07 17:04:58	Dagmar	"Oh gosh, Timmy.  The mean old government won't let us replace your nVidia 1080 with an nVidia 3060."
2021-07-07 17:05:25	Dagmar	"Looks like you'll have to tea bag your friends in Call of Duty at only 45fps for awhile longer"
2021-07-07 17:05:41	phoenixes	ok nvm i guess that doesn't matter much
2021-07-07 17:05:47	Dagmar	Exactly.
2021-07-07 17:06:08	greatcoof	if i get a reverse shell on an android will it just have all the normal GNU utils or?
2021-07-07 17:06:15	phoenixes	android doesn't have gnu
2021-07-07 17:06:27	Dagmar	There's also that it looks like by the end of the year GPU mining for Ethereum will be coming to an abrupt halt
2021-07-07 17:06:43	Dagmar	phoenixes: See also 'Terminal IDE'
2021-07-07 17:06:57	Dagmar	greadcoof: BAsically, install the thing I just mentioned
2021-07-07 17:07:08	<--	iJens (~ijens@109.120.212.141) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 17:07:29	Dagmar	Android is basically just not designed for someone to be using a terminal, normally
2021-07-07 17:07:41	greatcoof	phoenixes: i mean will i be able ho navigate around the device just as i do an my archlinux or..?
2021-07-07 17:07:54	greatcoof	s/ho/to
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2021-07-07 17:08:23	Dagmar	greatconf: Have you ever tried to use a Linux distribution with a really stripped-down userspace meant to run on a precocious Casio watch?
2021-07-07 17:08:27	phoenixes	greatcoof cd works at the very least
2021-07-07 17:08:41	phoenixes	but they dont use gnu tools so you may or not have difficulties with it
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2021-07-07 17:09:13	ayecee	greatcoof: mostly yes
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2021-07-07 17:10:00	Dagmar	Terminal IDE gets you a bunch of the userspace stuff otherwise the experience will be rather uncomfortable
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2021-07-07 17:10:51	greatcoof	okay...touch rm mv ls cp work...
2021-07-07 17:10:55	Dagmar	Feel free to run adb shell and find out what you're considering
2021-07-07 17:10:57	greatcoof	no text editor tho
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2021-07-07 17:11:19	moo	no ed?
2021-07-07 17:11:32	ayecee	not even a jake or bob
2021-07-07 17:11:50	greatcoof	nope
2021-07-07 17:11:59	greatcoof	not even jake or bob
2021-07-07 17:12:11	solar_sea_	Is there a way to set LD_PRELOAD when tracing libraries calls with ltrace ?
2021-07-07 17:12:12	phoenixes	or vi
2021-07-07 17:12:31	solar_sea_	I mean, set it on the traced command and not on the ltrace itself
2021-07-07 17:12:32	greatcoof	nope
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2021-07-07 17:13:00	ayecee	solar_sea_: launch the command with env, maybe
2021-07-07 17:13:13	solar_sea_	ayecee, thanks, let me try that
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2021-07-07 17:14:13	greatcoof	no even $TEXTEDITOR variable
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2021-07-07 17:14:25	greatcoof	what kind of monster created this!
2021-07-07 17:14:27	ayecee	i'm not sure if that would just end up tracing the env command though
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2021-07-07 17:14:43	ayecee	greatcoof: first time in embedded, eh
2021-07-07 17:14:52	Dagmar	greatcoof: People with a more reasonable expectation about what users are capable of doing without mucking it up
2021-07-07 17:14:54	phoenixes	greatcoof they didnt expect you to access the terminal at all
2021-07-07 17:15:09	phoenixes	greatcoof there is no vi either right?
2021-07-07 17:15:16	solar_sea_	ayecee, worked great, thanks again! :)
2021-07-07 17:15:23	ayecee	:0
2021-07-07 17:15:27	ayecee	err
2021-07-07 17:15:33	ayecee	:)
2021-07-07 17:15:35	greatcoof	no nothing =/
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2021-07-07 17:15:47	phoenixes	greatcoof then i suppose you could edit with echo? or something lol
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2021-07-07 17:16:06	ayecee	cat > filename
2021-07-07 17:16:15	ayecee	then paste your stuff, and ctrl-D to exit
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2021-07-07 17:16:45	ayecee	but expect a lot of the filesystem to be read-only
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2021-07-07 17:17:01	Dagmar	...and much of it to be completely inaccessible.
2021-07-07 17:17:12	Dagmar	SEAndroid does not care who you think you are.
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2021-07-07 17:17:33	greatcoof	ayecee: MY VIRTUAL KEYBEARD DOESNT HAVE A CTRL BUTTON WHAT KIND OF TORTURE IS THIS
2021-07-07 17:17:35	ayecee	truth, they got that locked down
2021-07-07 17:17:41	ayecee	greatcoof: no caps please
2021-07-07 17:17:50	ayecee	it's not a rule, they just make me want to punch you
2021-07-07 17:17:58	phoenixes	greatcoof there is no ctrl button in any default android keyboard
2021-07-07 17:18:09	phoenixes	you just use the context menus via touch and hold
2021-07-07 17:18:34	Dagmar	greatcoof: It's the self-inflicted kind
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2021-07-07 17:18:44	PaulFertser	phoenixes: cat > filename <<"EOF"
2021-07-07 17:18:51	Dagmar	Now go and install the Terminal IDE package already
2021-07-07 17:19:25	PaulFertser	Oh, it's for greatcoof
2021-07-07 17:19:30	phoenixes	no worries
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2021-07-07 17:19:49	phoenixes	thanks for giving a crucial key tool should i ever end up burning all the default text editors
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2021-07-07 17:20:04	greatcoof	Dagmar: its not a real termnal its a jailed enviroment
2021-07-07 17:20:10	phoenixes	dont you have root
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2021-07-07 17:20:21	greatcoof	phoenixes: nope
2021-07-07 17:20:25	phoenixes	then root it
2021-07-07 17:20:40	PaulFertser	EOF is in quotes because otherwise the shell will try to expand $variables that might be present in your input.
2021-07-07 17:20:55	greatcoof	i will but i dont expect others will @ phoenixes
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2021-07-07 17:21:37	greatcoof	PaulFertser: i didn't get the write with cat thing
2021-07-07 17:22:17	PaulFertser	greatcoof: it's called "here document". You can write text and then end it with EOF on its own line (or any other word you choose in advance).
2021-07-07 17:22:22	porxo	lacroix: bikini!
2021-07-07 17:22:29	PaulFertser	greatcoof: that way you wouldn't need C-d
2021-07-07 17:22:43	ayecee	sure, you'd just need an EOF instead
2021-07-07 17:22:57	ayecee	way less keys
2021-07-07 17:23:00	Psi-Jack	porxo: Ban evading is bad, m'kay?
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2021-07-07 17:23:55	greatcoof	can i echo 'my text' > file like this?
2021-07-07 17:23:59	PaulFertser	ayecee: useful for the cases when Ctrl combinations do not work for whatever reason.
2021-07-07 17:24:09	ayecee	greatcoof: who's gonna stop you? :D
2021-07-07 17:24:12	--	Mode #linux [+b *!*@host-79-35-133-14.retail.telecomitalia.it] by lacroix
2021-07-07 17:24:20	PaulFertser	greatcoof: if you need just a single line of text just echo redirect to file, yes.
2021-07-07 17:24:28	ayecee	PaulFertser: ah, good point
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2021-07-07 17:25:01	greatcoof	hold on im stuck bc i wrote cat with no arguements :/
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2021-07-07 17:25:15	PaulFertser	greatcoof: then you'll have to find a way to press C-d :)
2021-07-07 17:25:20	PaulFertser	greatcoof: or just close the terminal
2021-07-07 17:25:20	Psi-Jack	What about bc, with no arguments?
2021-07-07 17:25:21	phoenixes	or C-c
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2021-07-07 17:25:33	PaulFertser	Or C-c, yes
2021-07-07 17:25:49	phoenixes	you could just download a proper keyboard app y'know
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2021-07-07 17:26:10	greatcoof	it just repeats everything i type
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2021-07-07 17:26:17	ayecee	i hear "reverse shell" and i think he's doing this from a desktop, but then he did say something about a virtual keyboard.
2021-07-07 17:26:27	greatcoof	i love android!
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2021-07-07 17:26:42	phoenixes	i hate android when its holding me caged
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2021-07-07 17:27:46	greatcoof	ayecee: no im on the phone but im tring this because ill write an ''app'' that gives me reverse shell
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2021-07-07 17:28:22	ayecee	so this is a regular shell eh
2021-07-07 17:28:35	greatcoof	:p
2021-07-07 17:28:38	greatcoof	yes
2021-07-07 17:28:41	ayecee	maybe with android's built-in terminal app
2021-07-07 17:29:05	greatcoof	it has a built in app?!
2021-07-07 17:29:11	phoenixes	it doesn't i think
2021-07-07 17:29:20	phoenixes	at least for nougat and below
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2021-07-07 17:29:29	ayecee	erm. i'm thinking of lineageOS i think.
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2021-07-07 17:30:15	greatcoof	im using an "app" called termnal emulator because its not a jailed enviroment
2021-07-07 17:30:18	greatcoof	i think
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2021-07-07 17:33:07	greatcoof	if i pipe something to bin/sh will it run it or say "oh we dont have that go back to playing candy crush"
2021-07-07 17:33:17	ayecee	try it and see
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2021-07-07 17:33:51	phoenixes	at least the message will be (and should be) the same as any other linux env
2021-07-07 17:34:00	<--	Gorian (~default@134.134.139.84) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-07 17:34:04	phoenixes	gnu/linux env*
2021-07-07 17:34:16	ayecee	any other linux env that uses busybox
2021-07-07 17:34:37	ayecee	and not gnu coreutils
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2021-07-07 17:36:24	greatcoof	the shell is not even a normal shell when i type something "wrong" it says
2021-07-07 17:36:24	greatcoof	/system/bin/sh then whatever it would say on linux
2021-07-07 17:36:38	Dagmar	greatcoof: I know exactly what I was suggesting
2021-07-07 17:36:54	greatcoof	Dagmar: ?
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2021-07-07 17:37:12	ayecee	what did you suggest
2021-07-07 17:37:19	phoenixes	Dagmar is telling you to download terminal IDE
2021-07-07 17:37:48	ayecee	and i guess use adb to connect
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2021-07-07 17:39:02	greatcoof	phoenixes: on the phone or my computer?
2021-07-07 17:39:44	Gustavo6046	how do i vulkan if my video card is just barely too old for vulkan but now I am right now configuring a linux-tkg build so maybe there is some sort of layer I can tell it to build that will make at least a good enough subset for vulkan available?
2021-07-07 17:39:49	ayecee	i honestly don't know as i've never heard it called a terminal IDE
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2021-07-07 17:40:22	Dagmar	ayecee: It's a package. https://www.spartacusrex.com/terminalide.htm
2021-07-07 17:40:29	ayecee	Gustavo6046: nope
2021-07-07 17:40:33	Gustavo6046	:(
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2021-07-07 17:40:43	ayecee	Dagmar: ah
2021-07-07 17:40:45	Dagmar	It solves the keyboard problem, and the rest of the things are usable through ssh or adb
2021-07-07 17:40:46	Gustavo6046	 * Hopes_and_dreams left the chat
2021-07-07 17:40:47	Gustavo6046	:p
2021-07-07 17:40:55	Gustavo6046	it's annoying
2021-07-07 17:40:58	Gustavo6046	because it's this uncanny valley
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2021-07-07 17:41:19	Gustavo6046	where it's like, modern enough to do a lot of stuff, but just old enough where the interface-level *support* is kinda bad
2021-07-07 17:41:26	Dagmar	"Also vim has been setup by default in a humane way, so that starting on this long and glorious journey won't begin with a punch in the face."
2021-07-07 17:41:37	ayecee	heh
2021-07-07 17:41:58	Gustavo6046	for example I'm sure I could get it do some decent VP9 or Theora hardware encoding judging by the raw hardware power, but this intel video card only supports h264 in their VAAPI interface.
2021-07-07 17:42:06	akik	greatcoof: buy a device with a proper keyboard
2021-07-07 17:42:25	--	Mode #linux [-o lacroix] by lacroix
2021-07-07 17:42:42	akik	maybe a bluetooth keyboard would work too
2021-07-07 17:42:56	Samian	hi
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2021-07-07 17:43:05	ayecee	Gustavo6046: doesn't seem likely
2021-07-07 17:43:23	ayecee	it's not the raw power that's in question, it's the missing hardware
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2021-07-07 17:43:58	greatcoof	that's what was explaining tho i dont need to use 'android shell' because i want to do work or something i need it because that's what you get from a reverse shell
2021-07-07 17:44:31	Samian	In terminal, when I type ls I see files/folders in different colors. I'm trying to figure out what the colors correspond to.  I suspect one color is for folders, another for hidden folders etc.    What's a command that will display a table in which each file is a table, and there are columns like filename, file permissions, hidden/not hidden, date created, etc
2021-07-07 17:44:31	Gustavo6046	missing hardware?..
2021-07-07 17:44:36	Samian	that way i can see what the colors represent
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2021-07-07 17:44:57	ayecee	Gustavo6046: yeah. hardware acceleration needs dedicated hardware.
2021-07-07 17:45:18	greatcoof	therefore i cant install any apps , the one im using according to what i know its just forwarding whatever i type to android directly without adding fancy stuff
2021-07-07 17:45:22	ayecee	there isn't hardware dedicated to that on your board.
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2021-07-07 17:46:28	Gustavo6046	ayecee: hm, but iGPU
2021-07-07 17:46:31	-->	Luks_Nuke (~LuksNuke@94.242.245.63) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 17:46:31	Dagmar	Samian: There generally isn't one
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2021-07-07 17:46:38	Gustavo6046	I mean
2021-07-07 17:46:42	Gustavo6046	it *is* a GPU
2021-07-07 17:46:49	Gustavo6046	and it is, uh, let's put it, decently modern
2021-07-07 17:46:51	Gustavo6046	early 2010s
2021-07-07 17:46:55	ayecee	okay?
2021-07-07 17:46:55	Gustavo6046	emphasis on early
2021-07-07 17:47:04	ayecee	so that implies what
2021-07-07 17:47:08	Gustavo6046	I dunno what modern GPUs have that it doesn't
2021-07-07 17:47:12	Gustavo6046	at least relevant to here anyway
2021-07-07 17:47:24	Samian	:-(
2021-07-07 17:47:25	Gustavo6046	if it has compute power surely all you have to do is write some bytecode or something that runs on it, right?
2021-07-07 17:47:32	ayecee	hardware dedicated to vp9 or theora
2021-07-07 17:47:36	ayecee	no
2021-07-07 17:47:43	Gustavo6046	ahhh
2021-07-07 17:47:45	Gustavo6046	o.o
2021-07-07 17:47:48	Gustavo6046	there is hardware dedicated to that?
2021-07-07 17:47:52	Gustavo6046	isn't that just an asic then though
2021-07-07 17:48:03	ayecee	yes, and vaapi is an interface to that asic
2021-07-07 17:48:08	Gustavo6046	hmm
2021-07-07 17:48:09	Dagmar	Oh now i get it
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2021-07-07 17:48:26	Dagmar	He thinks hes going to just write something that will let him easily access other people's devices
2021-07-07 17:48:46	ayecee	oh. that's rude.
2021-07-07 17:48:52	Gustavo6046	wat
2021-07-07 17:48:55	byte4byte	where jim at
2021-07-07 17:49:01	ayecee	Gustavo6046: not you :)
2021-07-07 17:49:04	Gustavo6046	oh, phew
2021-07-07 17:49:06	Dagmar	SEAndroid doesn't really allow those kinds of shenanigans
2021-07-07 17:49:26	<--	LuksNuke (~LuksNuke@94.242.245.63) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 17:49:29	ayecee	hard enough to do even legit things with SEAndroid looking over your shoulder
2021-07-07 17:49:42	Gustavo6046	  MOV EAX, video_path_string_ptr
2021-07-07 17:49:47	Gustavo6046	  INT theora_interrupt
2021-07-07 17:49:49	Gustavo6046	lol
2021-07-07 17:49:56	Gustavo6046	nah I know it isn't like that
2021-07-07 17:50:03	Gustavo6046	that'd be too easy. talk about cisc
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2021-07-07 17:50:52	ayecee	eh. probably not that far off, excep your app does the file bits itself.
2021-07-07 17:51:08	ayecee	punts a frame to the card, card decodes it
2021-07-07 17:51:40	ayecee	i'm guessing on that, haven't looked at the api.
2021-07-07 17:51:57	Gustavo6046	yeah
2021-07-07 17:51:58	greatcoof	Dagmar: what's this install system stuff
2021-07-07 17:52:06	Gustavo6046	"KUnit test for KUnit"
2021-07-07 17:52:09	Gustavo6046	Lol
2021-07-07 17:52:12	Gustavo6046	nice
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2021-07-07 17:52:34	Gustavo6046	but, if KUnit fails and therefore the KUnit KUnit test succeeds, does that mean it is working or not working?
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2021-07-07 17:53:34	ayecee	yes. it remains in a state of superposition.
2021-07-07 17:54:10	Gustavo6046	I think ""you guys"" (no one here but who cares you know what I mean and that's what matters) should have started with a very minimal unit test program, maybe even one that works on top of GNU Make or something like that? Probably not on Make, but still. One that is so small it obviously works and is reliable, and has little space for error. Perhaps one written in a system language that is more
2021-07-07 17:54:12	Gustavo6046	minimalistic than C. (Lua? BASIC? Any ideas?)
2021-07-07 17:54:15	Gustavo6046	And then *that* tests KUnit.
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2021-07-07 17:54:37	Dagmar	No.  Just... no.
2021-07-07 17:54:49	Gustavo6046	But then
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2021-07-07 17:54:55	Gustavo6046	You could actually make a bigger, better KUnit
2021-07-07 17:54:56	Dagmar	Still no.
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2021-07-07 17:55:08	Gustavo6046	Without fear of a dilemma like the one I exemplified earlier
2021-07-07 17:55:16	Gustavo6046	a scenario where KUnit doesn't work but you would never know
2021-07-07 17:55:49	Gustavo6046	So, for this tiny bootstrap test architecture, you'd write a few unit tests that make sure KUnit is sane. And that is it. No maintenance needed, no REAL burden, no integration hell.
2021-07-07 17:56:04	greatcoof	Dagmar: ??
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2021-07-07 17:56:56	Dagmar	Gustavo6046: Feel free to hop on LKML and tell them how you think they should be doing their unit testing.
2021-07-07 17:57:01	Dagmar	Be sure and mention BASIC.
2021-07-07 17:57:06	Gustavo6046	They'd probably barf
2021-07-07 17:57:13	Gustavo6046	Well no lol
2021-07-07 17:57:17	furrykef	Okay... apparently I have entered bizarro-world...
2021-07-07 17:57:20	Gustavo6046	'Probably' not BASIC
2021-07-07 17:57:34	Gustavo6046	But it was an example of a language that could be more succint than C (and thus less prone to small mistakes that could make it less reliable)
2021-07-07 17:57:44	Gustavo6046	Whilst still (probably?) being a system language
2021-07-07 17:58:10	furrykef	I have a file, /code/oedict/oedict.py. I have a terminal window that's in /code/oedict, and if I do anything with oedict.py -- run it in Python, or even just cat it -- it uses an old version of the file.
2021-07-07 17:58:14	Dagmar	Oh feel free to frame it in those exact terms
2021-07-07 17:58:25	furrykef	I have another terminal window that's in exactly the same directory, which uses the new version of the file.
2021-07-07 17:58:39	furrykef	How is this possible?!
2021-07-07 17:58:58	Dagmar	Kick the file over into /tmp and look again
2021-07-07 17:59:25	ayecee	furrykef: i feel like there's something about this environment that is different from a regular desktop linux system
2021-07-07 17:59:45	furrykef	ayecee: Can't imagine what. I'm running Mint 20.1
2021-07-07 18:00:01	ayecee	i can't imagine either
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2021-07-07 18:00:23	furrykef	I have an inkling of what caused this, though
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2021-07-07 18:00:43	greatcoof	oh maybe its not that bad it has netcat by default
2021-07-07 18:01:02	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
2021-07-07 18:01:02	ayecee	okay that's more than i have
2021-07-07 18:01:17	furrykef	At one point I renamed the oedict directory to oedict_, so I could re-create oedict as a git repo. Then I copied the files (not sure why; I should have moved them instead) back into oedict
2021-07-07 18:01:21	furrykef	That is probably when the weirdness started
2021-07-07 18:01:41	ayecee	oh. yeah, that's it.
2021-07-07 18:01:41	Dagmar	All hail the refcount
2021-07-07 18:01:46	ayecee	you're still in the old directory.
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2021-07-07 18:02:01	furrykef	ahhhh...
2021-07-07 18:02:20	furrykef	So even though it *says* I'm in /code/oedict, I'm not?
2021-07-07 18:02:27	sysRPL	fuck ms windows
2021-07-07 18:02:31	Dagmar	You might be
2021-07-07 18:02:35	ayecee	mind the language please
2021-07-07 18:02:40	<--	qlixed (~qlixed@181.44.129.13) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-07 18:02:44	sysRPL	duck ms windows
2021-07-07 18:02:51	sysRPL	fixed that for you
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2021-07-07 18:03:00	Dagmar	That's not necessarily the same "/code/oedict" as in other environments
2021-07-07 18:03:08	sysRPL	duck ms window hard is the bass
2021-07-07 18:03:12	furrykef	🦆
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2021-07-07 18:03:29	ayecee	furrykef: when you went into the directory, it was /code/oedict. then you moved the  directory in another window, but it doesn't change the name in this window.
2021-07-07 18:03:42	furrykef	That is... extremely confusing
2021-07-07 18:03:54	Dagmar	Well, don't move the floor out from under your own feet then
2021-07-07 18:03:57	sysRPL	and duck facebook as well
2021-07-07 18:04:12	sysRPL	duck ebay
2021-07-07 18:04:28	sysRPL	duck twitter
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2021-07-07 18:04:35	sysRPL	dukc them all
2021-07-07 18:04:39	sysRPL	duck too
2021-07-07 18:04:48	furrykef	I mean, the behavior I was expecting was the shell would look up files by their full pathname
2021-07-07 18:05:07	ayecee	nope, only relative to the current directory
2021-07-07 18:05:12	Dagmar	Your shell has a filehandle to it's CWD
2021-07-07 18:05:19	ayecee	its ;)
2021-07-07 18:05:26	Dagmar	This means you can't unmount it while you're "in there"
2021-07-07 18:05:36	Dagmar	This also means it can't be deleted while you're "in there"
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2021-07-07 18:05:58	furrykef	Sure enough, typing "cd ." restores sanity to the strange window
2021-07-07 18:06:15	Dagmar	If you _rename_ part of the path, it'll never know that anything changed.
2021-07-07 18:06:48	sysRPL	yeash ... i am getting constant 25MB/d download speeds
2021-07-07 18:06:50	sysRPL	noice
2021-07-07 18:07:08	sysRPL	25MB/s even
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2021-07-07 18:07:39	sysRPL	that's a 200 megabits
2021-07-07 18:08:34	furrykef	OK, thanks for the help
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2021-07-07 18:13:52	Jacki	a dbus client should be run as root, with sudo ?
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2021-07-07 18:14:26	ayecee	what is context and why is it important
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2021-07-07 18:14:59	Jacki	an app is using mutter displayconfig
2021-07-07 18:15:09	Jacki	works only as root
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2021-07-07 18:16:04	CPUOne	Why run nginx web server as root, when I can have it listen on localhost:8000 and redirect all port 443 traffic there?
2021-07-07 18:16:07	ayecee	dbus clients do not need to run as root
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2021-07-07 18:16:19	CPUOne	*using iptables
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2021-07-07 18:17:39	ayecee	to prevent other applications from claiming port 8000 in the brief window when you restart your nginx server i guess
2021-07-07 18:17:41	Jacki	maybe gnome stuff need
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2021-07-07 18:20:29	kfrench	ayecee: I guess one could "fix" that with network namespaces.
2021-07-07 18:20:56	CPUOne	containers of course!
2021-07-07 18:21:08	kfrench	Do you need root privs to switch to an existing network namespace?
2021-07-07 18:21:18	ayecee	i would imagine so
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2021-07-07 18:27:48	kfrench	It seems they have an owner, so you can switch to it if you own it.  You can create your own with unshare, but that doesn't really affect CPUOne's question.
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2021-07-07 18:29:03	kfrench	effect?  I hate English
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2021-07-07 18:29:42	furrykef	"affect" would be the better choice of the two, but "pertain to" would perhaps be better than either.
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2021-07-07 18:34:51	Gustavo6046	does netcat have a fursona
2021-07-07 18:35:27	akik	what the...
2021-07-07 18:35:48	djph	akik: just smile and nod, maybe they'll just go away...
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2021-07-07 18:38:48	akoana	Gustavo6046: sure, it's called felis retis
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2021-07-07 18:39:48	Gustavo6046	:o
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2021-07-07 18:39:53	Gustavo6046	felis wat
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2021-07-07 18:40:05	Gustavo6046	is that the genitive form of the latin adjective for straight?
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2021-07-07 18:40:08	Gustavo6046	as in straight line
2021-07-07 18:40:12	Gustavo6046	or straight ahead
2021-07-07 18:40:20	akoana	yes rete, retis
2021-07-07 18:40:29	akoana	genitive
2021-07-07 18:40:31	martian_	is git commit a "subcommand"?
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2021-07-07 18:41:23	phoenixes	martian_ why not read the docs
2021-07-07 18:41:33	akoana	Gustavo6046: rede (pt), red (sp-)
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2021-07-07 18:42:08	akoana	Gustavo6046: means "net", doesn't it
2021-07-07 18:42:12	Gustavo6046	ahh
2021-07-07 18:42:14	Gustavo6046	network
2021-07-07 18:42:25	Gustavo6046	yep yep
2021-07-07 18:42:27	Gustavo6046	it does
2021-07-07 18:42:50	martian_	phoenixes im not interested in git itself, im trying to understand the term "subcommand"
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2021-07-07 18:43:14	Gustavo6046	martian_: 'git init' - the 'init' is a subcommand
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2021-07-07 18:43:34	Gustavo6046	just running 'git' on its own won't do much because it groups a bunch of functionality
2021-07-07 18:43:39	Gustavo6046	tbh i prefer git's way than gpg's guessy-gamey way
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2021-07-07 18:44:45	Samian	Is there a way to create an alias file? like, if I run /usr/local/xyz it runs /usr/local/abcd
2021-07-07 18:44:54	martian_	so basically any keyword you use after the name of the tool is a "subcommand"? git was the only one i could think of that looks like this, maybe there are other examples?
2021-07-07 18:45:10	curdlesnoot	Samian: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/WrapperScript
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2021-07-07 18:46:07	phoenixes	samian you simply do ln -s
2021-07-07 18:46:07	martian_	so in "ls -l" the "-l" is an "option" but in "git commit" the "commit" is a "subcommand"?
2021-07-07 18:46:22	phoenixes	well - indicates option/flag
2021-07-07 18:46:29	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
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2021-07-07 18:46:54	Gustavo6046	martian_: think of it like this -- different subcommands generally denote entirely different operations altogether. "ls -l" is just an "ls" operation but with a "-l" option set.
2021-07-07 18:46:55	Samian	phoenixes  ln -s /usr/local/xyz /usr/local/abcd
2021-07-07 18:46:56	Samian	like that?
2021-07-07 18:47:02	phoenixes	yrd
2021-07-07 18:47:04	<--	rtx (~rtx@user/rtx) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-07 18:47:06	phoenixes	yes*
2021-07-07 18:47:18	phoenixes	/usr/local/xyz now is linked to /usr/local/abcd
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2021-07-07 18:47:41	Samian	hah I searched yrd meaning and urban dictionary says "you are dumb"
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2021-07-07 18:49:04	phoenixes	typo samian
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2021-07-07 18:49:43	Samian	it worked thanks phoenixes
2021-07-07 18:49:50	phoenixes	np
2021-07-07 18:50:09	martian_	ah... i think i got it now... so basically the "-" just indicates that you don't have to use this flag/option, since it's optional, like you can use "ls" along and get output no matter what
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2021-07-07 18:51:02	ramzy	if i dd my root partition to a thumb drive can i boot from it?
2021-07-07 18:51:04	martian_	but "git commit" and "git init" for example are like doing entirely different things
2021-07-07 18:51:46	martian_	can someone give me another example of "subcommand"?
2021-07-07 18:53:03	MrElendig	ip <anything>
2021-07-07 18:53:13	curdlesnoot	apt install
2021-07-07 18:53:39	MrElendig	a lot of modern tools use subcommands instead of flags these days
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2021-07-07 18:54:41	martian_	mm i see now... hm... is that because it allows for logical grouping of options?
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2021-07-07 18:55:38	curdlesnoot	options that genuinely are optional, for that matter. it makes sense beyond a certain threshold of complexity.
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2021-07-07 18:55:43	martian_	you know how some options will disable others if used at the same time and so on..
2021-07-07 18:55:50	MrElendig	arguably more intuitive
2021-07-07 18:55:53	Guest4	Seeking new Open Source OS
2021-07-07 18:56:07	Guest4	Want no proprietary code
2021-07-07 18:56:12	MrElendig	Guest4: parabola
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2021-07-07 18:56:28	Guest4	PArabola takes a lot of config Ive heard I want a easy os install
2021-07-07 18:56:45	MrElendig	it doesn't tale a lot to install/configure
2021-07-07 18:56:47	MrElendig	take*
2021-07-07 18:56:55	Guest4	Is Lubuntu OPen Source?
2021-07-07 18:56:57	Guest4	And only free packages?
2021-07-07 18:57:00	kfrench	Guest4: So, you want good, fast, free, Free, and easy?
2021-07-07 18:57:01	MrElendig	no
2021-07-07 18:57:05	Guest4	I want to avoid closed source and propiretary code
2021-07-07 18:57:08	phoenixes	Guest4 take a look at trisquel
2021-07-07 18:57:14	MrElendig	note: without blobs modern hardware won't work
2021-07-07 18:57:17	Guest4	I've used Trisquel, just the packages are old
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2021-07-07 18:57:39	phoenixes	did you look at gnu recommendations?
2021-07-07 18:57:41	Guest4	Is Lubuntu 20.04 LTS open source
2021-07-07 18:57:43	Guest4	yes
2021-07-07 18:57:55	ramzy	anyone?
2021-07-07 18:57:56	MrElendig	as I said, no
2021-07-07 18:58:02	MrElendig	fsf does not approve
2021-07-07 18:58:23	MrElendig	https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html
2021-07-07 18:58:23	Guest4	fsf doesnt list Ubuntu because it CAN install proprietary packages
2021-07-07 18:58:27	Guest4	It doesnt by default I belive
2021-07-07 18:58:37	MrElendig	Guest4: ubuntu also has quite a few blobs
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2021-07-07 18:58:45	ramzy	Guest4: it does tho
2021-07-07 18:58:53	MrElendig	since  they want it to actually work on modern hardware
2021-07-07 18:59:14	phoenixes	lubuntu is a derivative of ubuntu
2021-07-07 18:59:15	phoenixes	therefore no
2021-07-07 18:59:23	Guest4	It comes with Firmware blobs, but It shows you how many you are using
2021-07-07 18:59:26	Guest4	Im using 0 firmware blobs
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2021-07-07 18:59:52	ramzy	Guest4: also in some version it was sending user data to home
2021-07-07 19:00:05	Guest4	I have some 'main' and 'universe' repos enabled, both of which are free and ope source
2021-07-07 19:00:09	phoenixes	unfortunately for you, i have no choice but to use an old, propritary card by broadcom for wifi. which obviously means i need to use the blobs anyway
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2021-07-07 19:00:17	Guest4	I think that was just the Search bar sending search tems back, right?
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2021-07-07 19:01:06	martian_	"lubuntu is a derivative of ubuntu" but Trisquel is based on ubuntu as well, and it found its way to the list?
2021-07-07 19:01:09	jim	Guest4, you can also look at debian, if you don't add non-free (and contrib) to your sources.list, then apt can only get free stuff
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2021-07-07 19:01:11	ramzy	Guest4: i dont remember exactly but its slowly becoming windows
2021-07-07 19:01:23	Guest4	In terms of Telemetry etc?
2021-07-07 19:01:29	Guest4	Where, can you show me the documentation
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2021-07-07 19:02:07	ramzy	Guest4: od the becoming windows thing is my personal opinion
2021-07-07 19:02:14	johnnyapol	i think trisquel is based on debian, not ubuntu
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2021-07-07 19:02:42	johnnyapol	oh nvm, im wrong
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2021-07-07 19:03:27	Guest4	I have 'PArticipate in update statistics' turned off
2021-07-07 19:03:28	ramzy	Guest4: if you want an easy to install distro manjaro and artix work great
2021-07-07 19:03:38	Guest4	I have only Main and Universe free and open source packges enabled
2021-07-07 19:04:19	martian_	i wonder, how old hardware does it take to run a gnu approved distribution?
2021-07-07 19:04:20	Guest4	'No Propretary Drivers are in use'
2021-07-07 19:04:32	Guest4	I'm using a 2008 OS, Lenovo X200s, Libreboot
2021-07-07 19:04:39	Guest4	And Lubuntu standard is running great
2021-07-07 19:04:54	Guest4	I can have 20+ firefox tabs open, a VPN on, UFW firewall on,  and a few more low resource apps
2021-07-07 19:05:13	Guest4	I can run MATE and KDE, but I prefer lightweight Os
2021-07-07 19:05:26	martian_	that's great, so why do you need new os then?
2021-07-07 19:05:29	phoenixes	martian_ even with old hardware you might not be able to do so anyway
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2021-07-07 19:05:50	Guest4	I just like to try new OS
2021-07-07 19:06:11	ramzy	Guest4: if you have technical skills to install libre boot and have technical skill why are you on ubuntu
2021-07-07 19:06:20	phoenixes	ramzy they said lubuntu
2021-07-07 19:06:22	phoenixes	not ubuntu
2021-07-07 19:06:40	johnnyapol	I think the no proprietary drivers in use thing in software & updates refers to closed source kernel modules; however, it can still be loading proprietary blobs / firmware for things.
2021-07-07 19:07:22	ramzy	phoenixes: whats a lubuntu?
2021-07-07 19:07:33	johnnyapol	lubuntu = ubuntu with lxde desktop environment
2021-07-07 19:07:33	phoenixes	lubuntu is a derivative of ubuntu
2021-07-07 19:07:48	martian_	what hardware can you run parabola on?
2021-07-07 19:07:58	circuitbone	lu ku xu buntu
2021-07-07 19:08:00	ramzy	phoenixes: with diffrent DE?
2021-07-07 19:08:23	Guest4	Why wouldnt I use Ubuntu? I primarily enjoy Ubuntu because it has a dedicated security team, and has support with many website, which provide Ubuntu and Debian Apps
2021-07-07 19:08:32	Betal	ramzy: https://ubuntu.com/download/flavours
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2021-07-07 19:08:56	Guest4	Lubuntu uses the LXQt, LXDE-based DE
2021-07-07 19:09:01	Guest4	Its fast, and emulates KDE
2021-07-07 19:09:10	Guest4	but lightweight
2021-07-07 19:09:18	ramzy	Guest4: lxqt is great
2021-07-07 19:09:49	ramzy	my favourte DE
2021-07-07 19:10:04	ramzy	tho i use WMs now
2021-07-07 19:10:19	martian_	VMs
2021-07-07 19:10:23	ramzy	i use dwm ,btw
2021-07-07 19:10:34	Betal	martian_: VM != WM
2021-07-07 19:10:50	phoenixes	VM is virtual machine, WM is window manager
2021-07-07 19:10:57	martian_	ah ok
2021-07-07 19:12:26	ramzy	Guest4: >and has support with many website
2021-07-07 19:12:29	phoenixes	Guest4 the question was asked because ubuntu is more geared towards low-technical users
2021-07-07 19:12:41	ramzy	what does that men
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2021-07-07 19:13:04	martian_	i use regular ubuntu on a laptop, i'm happy with it. the main issue i had was that it was running hot on videos, because it was using some weird gpu thing i don't know the name of
2021-07-07 19:13:39	ramzy	martian_: nvedia?
2021-07-07 19:13:48	martian_	once i installed nvidia proprietary drivers and then corrected the dpi scaling so i could use 125 or 150% it was ok
2021-07-07 19:13:54	martian_	heh yep
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2021-07-07 19:14:45	martian_	i'm using experimental/beta nvidia drivers from ubuntu i think, i had to enable it in some special way
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2021-07-07 19:15:13	martian_	i'm clueless when it comes to these things, but i have a great system running now and i'm happy
2021-07-07 19:15:26	ramzy	im just scared to attack the easy to install distros because its users take offense easly
2021-07-07 19:15:31	martian_	ubuntu 20.04 lts btw
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2021-07-07 19:16:35	enrh	When developing a thing, in my case some Ansible playbooks, and you rely on environmental variables... is there some LSB or other strategy for naming convention?
2021-07-07 19:16:50	martian_	well i don't know if ubuntu is in that category, but it was not too difficult to setup, the most difficult part was nvidia/igpu or whatever, and scaling issues on small screen
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2021-07-07 19:17:04	Netham47	Dagmar, https://gist.github.com/netham45/dd6488717b84d5943473b0cb4a3904cc
2021-07-07 19:17:06	ramzy	i use arch linux 5.2 :p
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2021-07-07 19:17:40	martian_	ah cool! a hacker?! ;)
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2021-07-07 19:18:07	martian_	im only starting out with linux on this laptop
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2021-07-07 19:18:19	rud0lf	hackers don't exist, don't be ridiculous
2021-07-07 19:18:25	Netham45	Hack the planet
2021-07-07 19:18:36	rud0lf	heck the furball (out)
2021-07-07 19:18:39	ramzy	martian_: yep wearing guy fawx mask rn lol
2021-07-07 19:18:55	martian_	lol
2021-07-07 19:19:34	martian_	pull that hood on :P
2021-07-07 19:19:47	phoenixes	Hack old hardware to work
2021-07-07 19:19:54	Netham45	That github gist I posted above is a small Python script I made to hook my trackball and make a button toggle the trackball to act as a scroll wheel
2021-07-07 19:20:02	ramzy	martian_: i dont even use arch i use artix (arch without soystemd)
2021-07-07 19:20:09	Netham45	If anyone was interested. I was talking about it in here this morning.
2021-07-07 19:20:22	<--	atmoz (~atmoz@user/atmoz) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-07 19:20:50	ramzy	Netham45: there is no morning
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2021-07-07 19:22:18	ramzy	Netham45: your morning is someone elses night you are just talking to wahtever person hapens to be in your timezone
2021-07-07 19:22:53	phoenixes	we could define a morning if everyone agreed to whatever definition was proposed
2021-07-07 19:23:45	ramzy	if you wanna refer to morning you should also say the place of it
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2021-07-07 19:24:05	Netham45	But then you wouldn't have anything to be stupidly pedantic over
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2021-07-07 19:25:01	ramzy	Netham45: im sure my autism will find something else :p
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2021-07-07 19:26:19	ramzy	Netham45: this remiund me of the video "how it feels to use gentoo"
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2021-07-07 19:31:00	mattf	is there a command like rsync but you run once and it will forever keep in sync
2021-07-07 19:31:12	mattf	it has a daemon or so that you can configure and it will run hourly or whatever
2021-07-07 19:32:49	djph	mattf: rsync in a cronjob?
2021-07-07 19:32:56	circuitbone	cron / rsync
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2021-07-07 19:35:08	mattf	yeah but thats kinda not as practical
2021-07-07 19:35:09	ramzy	if i dd my root partition can i boot from it?
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2021-07-07 19:35:29	ramzy	dd to another storge device i mean
2021-07-07 19:35:56	akoana	enrh: I don't know of any naming conventions for environment variables but I'd recommend to use lower case for them in order to prevent collisions with "standard" environment variables
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2021-07-07 19:36:06	ramzy	mattf: it your most practical option tho...
2021-07-07 19:36:34	mattf	no im thinking on writing this python daemon
2021-07-07 19:36:51	mattf	just don't know if it is worth it
2021-07-07 19:36:59	circuitbone	derp
2021-07-07 19:37:09	mattf	I have multiple files and folders in multiple remote servers that I would like to keep in sync
2021-07-07 19:37:16	mattf	and sometimes there are new directories or so
2021-07-07 19:37:35	mattf	besides this can be a tool to automatically push the current path to a remote path as well
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2021-07-07 19:37:47	akoana	enrh: like DISPLAY, LANGUAGE, HOME ... etc., have a look at the output of the "env" command
2021-07-07 19:38:25	mattf	so you do it once with the rsync syntax and it will ask you how often you want it to sync or if only when you do a `pscync push` or so
2021-07-07 19:38:46	ramzy	anyone can answer my question?
2021-07-07 19:39:02	mattf	if you dd your root partition?
2021-07-07 19:39:03	ramzy	s/anyone can/can anyone
2021-07-07 19:39:15	phoenixes	my answer would be most likely no
2021-07-07 19:39:17	mattf	how are you going to dd it?
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2021-07-07 19:39:43	mouses	ramzy: you'd need to make sure you have a valid boot partition and everything set right, but there's no reason why not
2021-07-07 19:39:51	mouses	ramzy: go slow, take backups
2021-07-07 19:40:17	mouses	ramzy: you might like clonezilla if you're trying to migrate one drive to another and make it a bit easier
2021-07-07 19:40:29	kurahaupo	mattf: while true; do rsync … ; done
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2021-07-07 19:41:09	ramzy	mouses: i have no space for the whole sda only for my root partition
2021-07-07 19:41:45	ramzy	mouses: can i copy boo AND root partitions
2021-07-07 19:41:51	mouses	sure
2021-07-07 19:42:00	mouses	Again, I highly recommend clonezilla for this
2021-07-07 19:42:16	mattf	kurahaupo: thats not the hole story but almost yeah thats the idea
2021-07-07 19:42:19	phoenixes	no one said you had to copy the entire disk
2021-07-07 19:42:25	mouses	it will allow you specific what partitions to move, how to move them, etc
2021-07-07 19:42:45	mouses	but just the root partition is not going to be enough, you'll need boot as well
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2021-07-07 19:43:36	ramzy	mouses: this tool wiil copy my stuff and can boot from it directly
2021-07-07 19:43:40	mouses	ramzy: take it slow, have backups, and also make sure you have a live image on a USB ready to boot if you break something
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2021-07-07 19:44:21	mouses	ramzy: clonezilla?  yeah!  It's great stuff.  you'll need something to flash/burn it to and boot it up, and then you can go to town on the file system
2021-07-07 19:44:34	mouses	just make sure to take it slow and check the documentation and ask questions if you have them
2021-07-07 19:45:08	mouses	you're also far less likely to screw something up that way vs using DD, which does not really care what you tell it - it just does it with little to no warning for that typo :)
2021-07-07 19:46:08	phoenixes	"disk destroyer"
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2021-07-07 19:47:05	ramzy	mouses: and i can boot from it from the flash drive like i boot fromy my current sda without liveboot bullcrap?
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2021-07-07 19:47:48	akoana	phoenixes: no, dd means "data definition" - dd will do whatever you define, even if that means desperate disaster :P
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2021-07-07 19:47:57	ramzy	mouses: as context : i need to use my artix install when im using other ppls computers
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2021-07-07 19:48:24	ramzy	mouses: so i dont to wipe thier hard drives
2021-07-07 19:48:36	ramzy	yet...
2021-07-07 19:48:37	phoenixes	akoana you clearly dont get it, its a joke
2021-07-07 19:49:15	akoana	I do know, it's just a very old joke :)
2021-07-07 19:49:24	ramzy	akoana: it means copy convert
2021-07-07 19:49:35	phoenixes	wouldnt that be 'cc'
2021-07-07 19:49:38	phoenixes	and not dd
2021-07-07 19:49:46	ramzy	akoana: cc was already use for the c ompiler
2021-07-07 19:50:09	ramzy	so they just used the next letter :)
2021-07-07 19:50:14	akoana	"dd was always named after JCL dd cards", Dennis Ritchie (https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/HAWoZ8g-xYk/m/HDUVxwTVLKAJ)
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2021-07-07 19:50:43	akoana	so much for C ...
2021-07-07 19:50:50	ramzy	akoana: why you give me malware site?
2021-07-07 19:51:02	akoana	and Dennis Ritchie should know
2021-07-07 19:51:29	akoana	ramzy: since when are the words of  Dennis Ritchie malware?
2021-07-07 19:51:48	ramzy	akoana: google IS malware
2021-07-07 19:51:55	akoana	pfft
2021-07-07 19:52:05	phoenixes	well true
2021-07-07 19:52:07	phoenixes	it does meet gnu's definition of malware
2021-07-07 19:52:10	akoana	there is malware written in C too
2021-07-07 19:52:26	phoenixes	tell us what malware it is akoana then?
2021-07-07 19:52:35	phoenixes	oh
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2021-07-07 19:53:55	ramzy	completly unrelated to the topic is the intel core 2 duo too old ?
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2021-07-07 19:54:40	curdlesnoot	too old for what?
2021-07-07 19:54:43	akoana	ramzy: I pasted Dennis Ritchie's post here https://termbin.com/1j42e  (and that is text only, no malware, no harm)
2021-07-07 19:56:21	ramzy	akoana: thx
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2021-07-07 19:57:55	ramzy	so it was od then renamed to dd?
2021-07-07 19:59:05	Guest4	Core 2 Duo is running Lubuntu 20.04 on my Libreboot x200s perfectly
2021-07-07 19:59:08	akoana	did you read it? ... "dd was always named after JCL dd cards"
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2021-07-07 19:59:45	Topco	i had a core 2 duo quad core
2021-07-07 20:00:02	akoana	and in JCL you can say something like sysin dd ...  (JCL = IBM's job control language)
2021-07-07 20:00:05	Guest4	thats perfectly
2021-07-07 20:00:11	ramzy	Guest4: since lubuntu i heavier than my artix install , i should be fine right?
2021-07-07 20:00:20	phoenixes	yes
2021-07-07 20:00:36	Guest4	Core 2 Duo is sitll perfect for me today
2021-07-07 20:00:57	ramzy	Guest4: also what do use it for youre not a gaymer i suppose right?
2021-07-07 20:01:06	Topco	i miss my pentium 4
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2021-07-07 20:01:34	ramzy	Topco: im on mah athelon 7750 rn
2021-07-07 20:01:56	ramzy	Topco: honestly works bad
2021-07-07 20:02:14	Topco	Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: Puppy "FossaPup64" 9 • CPU: AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-56 (1.80GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.6 GiB Total (3.2 GiB Free) Swap: 7.8 GiB Total (7.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 45.5 GB / 152.8 GB (107.3 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS690M [Radeon Xpress 1200/1250/1270] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Contr
2021-07-07 20:02:14	Topco	ol • Uptime: 4d 0h 37m 45s
2021-07-07 20:02:26	<--	tom1984 (~tom1984@2408:8406:1961:51e7:79c0:d96b:b444:bffd) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-07 20:02:57	ramzy	Topco: thats a lot of swap
2021-07-07 20:03:15	Topco	hehehe
2021-07-07 20:03:17	ramzy	i have 512mb :p
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2021-07-07 20:03:35	goddard	hey
2021-07-07 20:03:57	jim	hi
2021-07-07 20:04:03	Guest4	Im studying 'Stripper Neurology'
2021-07-07 20:04:06	ramzy	goddard: hey , i use arch ,btw
2021-07-07 20:04:12	akoana	ramzy: "fi" is "endif" in the shell, like if ... ; then ... fi, but they had to use "done" for for  while ...; do ...; done  instead of "od", because od (octal dump) already existed (but "case" still ends with "esac")
2021-07-07 20:04:29	akoana	s/for for/for /
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2021-07-07 20:06:28	ramzy	akoana: i thought the just arbtrarly did this stuff lol
2021-07-07 20:06:45	akoana	:)
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2021-07-07 20:10:10	Gustavo6046	i am on a linux building a linux
2021-07-07 20:10:12	Gustavo6046	with linux
2021-07-07 20:11:52	djph	Gustavo6046: ... what?
2021-07-07 20:12:18	Gustavo6046	with clang*
2021-07-07 20:12:26	<--	smlavine (~smlavine@sourcehut/user/smlavine) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-07-07 20:12:42	Gustavo6046	eh still
2021-07-07 20:12:42	Gustavo6046	djph: i am on a linux system building a linux kernel
2021-07-07 20:12:49	Gustavo6046	that will hopefully eventually replace the currently running one
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2021-07-07 20:13:04	akoana	That reminds me of Gertrude Stein...
2021-07-07 20:13:28	akoana	"Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose"
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2021-07-07 20:20:08	Gustavo6046	akoana: she never built a kernel though
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2021-07-07 20:22:53	akoana	indeed, I guess in 1913 - when she wrote that in her poem "Sacred Emily" there wasn't much of harware available to do that...
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2021-07-07 20:23:32	Gustavo6046	yeah
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2021-07-07 20:25:53	akoana	and for her, writing poems probably was more pleasure than programming a Jacquard loom then
2021-07-07 20:26:11	beltwaybob	no way
2021-07-07 20:26:15	beltwaybob	looming kicks ass
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2021-07-07 20:26:46	akoana	sure, but writing a kernel with a loom?
2021-07-07 20:27:01	beltwaybob	are looms turing complete
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2021-07-07 20:27:10	Gustavo6046	loomnux
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2021-07-07 20:27:38	Topco	i like cows so i would like a cow based linux
2021-07-07 20:27:43	beltwaybob	loomix
2021-07-07 20:27:47	beltwaybob	Yes please
2021-07-07 20:27:49	Gustavo6046	beefux
2021-07-07 20:27:49	beltwaybob	I love cows
2021-07-07 20:27:51	Gustavo6046	wait a minute
2021-07-07 20:27:53	Gustavo6046	no
2021-07-07 20:27:55	Gustavo6046	don't
2021-07-07 20:28:01	beltwaybob	beefux
2021-07-07 20:28:05	Gustavo6046	no stop
2021-07-07 20:28:15	Gustavo6046	;-;
2021-07-07 20:28:15	beltwaybob	"Gonna load up beefux here, boss."
2021-07-07 20:28:21	akk	bovix
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2021-07-07 20:28:32	Gustavo6046	rasculblim: they wanna do beefux
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2021-07-07 20:29:32	akoana	cowix *runs away*
2021-07-07 20:29:47	beltwaybob	cowlix
2021-07-07 20:30:15	p0indexter	bovix
2021-07-07 20:30:23	beltwaybob	fecix
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2021-07-07 20:30:50	Topco	bovix or beefux
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2021-07-07 20:31:31	beltwaybob	lamix
2021-07-07 20:31:59	Gustavo6046	unix on a pringles can = pringlicks
2021-07-07 20:32:02	Gustavo6046	er
2021-07-07 20:32:03	Gustavo6046	pringlix
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2021-07-07 20:32:28	Gustavo6046	when you grow up as a mature, responsible nerd, you get attitudix
2021-07-07 20:33:09	Gustavo6046	yall guys get kix out of those huh
2021-07-07 20:33:10	<--	nekonibble (~nekonibbl@user/nekobit) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-07 20:33:21	beltwaybob	OK, Gustavo6046
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2021-07-07 20:33:25	beltwaybob	you've exceeded the bounds of good taste.
2021-07-07 20:33:45	Gustavo6046	oh crap, the thing i was walking on
2021-07-07 20:33:47	 *	Gustavo6046 plummets
2021-07-07 20:34:25	beltwaybob	:(
2021-07-07 20:34:29	Gustavo6046	;-;
2021-07-07 20:34:35	 *	Gustavo6046 unplummets
2021-07-07 20:34:37	Gustavo6046	phew
2021-07-07 20:34:39	Gustavo6046	git praise be
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2021-07-07 20:34:56	beltwaybob	let's all remain calm
2021-07-07 20:35:19	Gustavo6046	why would i not be calm?
2021-07-07 20:35:44	Topco	i'm a cool as a cucumber
2021-07-07 20:36:00	Gustavo6046	wow, Topco that says a lot about the reality of your personality ality
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2021-07-07 20:38:24	akoana	Gustavo6046: turn off the reverb effect :)
2021-07-07 20:38:51	Gustavo6046	akoana: sorry, i've been trapped in a particularly dastardly echo chamber amber
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2021-07-07 20:39:54	Gustavo6046	nvm i'm freeeeeeeee
2021-07-07 20:40:03	Gustavo6046	that isn't echo, just me full of gleeeeeeeeeeeeee
2021-07-07 20:40:04	Gustavo6046	\o/
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2021-07-07 20:45:32	Gustavo6046	so in the linux source tree, if i run make -j6 and a bunch of crap is built, but then i stop make before it is done, do i have to do it all again
2021-07-07 20:45:54	Gustavo6046	becaue i think running stuffw ith chrt -i 0 may be the reason my network is currently poo poo
2021-07-07 20:46:02	curdlesnoot	that's not the case.
2021-07-07 20:46:17	curdlesnoot	unless your clock can't keep time, anyway.
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2021-07-07 20:46:54	akoana	yep, that'll make make unhappy
2021-07-07 20:47:04	curdlesnoot	oh, it was a question. no, don't worry.
2021-07-07 20:47:14	curdlesnoot	it'll do the right thing.
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2021-07-07 20:50:14	autopsy	Your network is poo poo because the internet had diarheea
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2021-07-07 20:54:58	Gustavo6046	curdlesnoot, akoana: because chrt -i probably occupies the same time sharing kind of ring that networking stack/queue/whatever does right?
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2021-07-07 20:57:46	curdlesnoot	Gustavo6046: I was talking about not having to start from scratch. I don't know exactly how SCHED_IDLE is implemented but it's stated as being effectively lower than +19 with SCHED_OTHER/SCHED_BATCH. presumably, it should defer to anything else competing for the kernel's time.
2021-07-07 20:57:47	akoana	I don't know, I don't play with chrt anymore, never got some substantial gains with it...
2021-07-07 20:57:54	Gustavo6046	ah
2021-07-07 20:58:11	curdlesnoot	I use it myself, for that exact reason.
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2021-07-07 21:03:54	Gustavo6046	oo
2021-07-07 21:03:56	Gustavo6046	the source is built
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2021-07-07 21:03:58	Gustavo6046	now make install?
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2021-07-07 21:04:33	curdlesnoot	and make -j6 modules_install to install the modules, if you use module support.
2021-07-07 21:04:38	Gustavo6046	ah
2021-07-07 21:04:43	curdlesnoot	-j can help if signing modules.
2021-07-07 21:04:48	Gustavo6046	make install complains that there is no lilo
2021-07-07 21:04:53	Gustavo6046	or something
2021-07-07 21:05:24	curdlesnoot	it's probably whatever you have as /sbin/installkernel that's moaning. few people use lilo now, so it might not be an issue.
2021-07-07 21:05:44	curdlesnoot	the main thing is that it should have copied vmlinuz* to /boot.
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2021-07-07 21:09:38	fling	How to debug i/o wait using perf?
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2021-07-07 21:25:02	byte4byte	what yall nerds up to?
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2021-07-07 21:31:10	Pentode	watching spider sex on youtube and working on my home brew X-Y display
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2021-07-07 21:33:40	blackgatonegro	Emergency Chocolate Factory patch doesn't really fix issue, keep that print service disabled while online.
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2021-07-07 21:35:35	Dagmar	If you're using Slackware I have an /sbin/installkernel script that might well help with that
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2021-07-07 21:36:36	Dagmar	That's one of the things I *really* need to punt up to github
2021-07-07 21:36:40	blackgatonegro	Now on actually Linux things, I really should try that open source Settlers 2 clone for Linux.
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2021-07-07 21:38:35	beltwaybob	<3 Slackware
2021-07-07 21:39:11	byte4byte	thug life
2021-07-07 21:39:24	blackgatonegro	When was Slackware last update?
2021-07-07 21:40:07	<--	AnAverageHuman (~AnAverage@user/anaveragehuman) has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-07 21:40:11	beltwaybob	there is a slackware-current
2021-07-07 21:40:14	beltwaybob	live on the edge
2021-07-07 21:40:24	rascul	slackware has pam now
2021-07-07 21:40:27	beltwaybob	ya
2021-07-07 21:40:28	rascul	it's bleeding edge
2021-07-07 21:40:52	beltwaybob	Slackware is the gentleman's distribution
2021-07-07 21:41:08	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Slackware is like Debian in that it targets a technically-stable platform.  Patches come out and nothing gets broken.
2021-07-07 21:41:21	Dagmar	If you want some churn, there's Slackware-current.
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2021-07-07 21:42:46	blackgatonegro	Eh so... why use Slack instead of Devuan or Debian?
2021-07-07 21:43:10	Dagmar	It's easier to learn from because there's much less of an emphasis on complexity.
2021-07-07 21:43:35	-->	Kyv (~vo@user/vykyv) has joined #linux
2021-07-07 21:43:54	blackgatonegro	Then again, there is a deb for everything.
2021-07-07 21:44:04	phoenixes	deb me pls
2021-07-07 21:44:20	phoenixes	just kidding
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2021-07-07 21:45:37	blackgatonegro	I used to try tons of different Linux distros, a tad harder to fo nowadays when only two of my computers aint dead.
2021-07-07 21:45:45	beltwaybob	blackgatonegro: Slackware has a better name
2021-07-07 21:46:15	Gustavo6046	byte4byte: which of your cute little irc hooks responds to message with thug life
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2021-07-07 21:46:23	Gustavo6046	fess it up you mirc pleb
2021-07-07 21:46:25	Gustavo6046	:p
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2021-07-07 21:49:43	blackgatonegro	Gustavo6046 https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/1z37vd/someone_actually_got_slapped_around_a_bit_with_a/
2021-07-07 21:49:52	Gustavo6046	large trout
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2021-07-07 21:50:43	blackgatonegro	yep
2021-07-07 21:50:44	Dagmar	blackgatonegro: Basically, once you get the hang of Slackware, because it's internals are visible, you can sit down in front of just about any Unix system and at least get by
2021-07-07 21:51:00	beltwaybob	exactly
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2021-07-07 21:51:15	beltwaybob	People will call you a "hacker", especially if they have university degrees.
2021-07-07 21:51:52	phoenixes	you could just say you taught yourself c:
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2021-07-07 21:52:07	blackgatonegro	Dagmar is been twenty years and I still forget Linux terminal commands while it takes me like ten minutes to just get back to using Dos like when I was a kid.
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2021-07-07 21:55:47	jim	one, unix shells aren't so different from MS cmd prompt... two, yes, it will take some time to learn what you need to... just don't go to dos so quickly, give yourself a chance to discover the answers to the questions that are keeping you stuck
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2021-07-07 21:57:45	blackgatonegro	jim You don't understand, twenty years of reading Linux manuals, webpages, magazines, help text files, getting help on irc, you name it, and I still forget most of it. It just doesn't want to stick in my head - -
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2021-07-07 21:58:13	Dagmar	Stickynotes!
2021-07-07 21:58:28	Dagmar	You'd think they were on a migratory schedule from looking at my displays some days
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2021-07-07 21:58:52	Dagmar	I also have a _lot_ of spiral bound notebooks I write in to keep track of the results of experiments and so forth
2021-07-07 21:58:56	phoenixes	what does ls stand for?
2021-07-07 21:59:08	Dagmar	Remembering everything is not as important as _being able to find it_ in a hurry
2021-07-07 21:59:22	beltwaybob	phoenixes: list
2021-07-07 21:59:28	phoenixes	oh
2021-07-07 21:59:37	KillerWasp	hello, anyone here can run zsnes in 32 bit mode?
2021-07-07 21:59:59	phoenixes	can you?
2021-07-07 22:00:02	blackgatonegro	Can't use paper notes, cleaning lady makes a mess of them.  Also I still haven't found the notebook I used to write short stories. Stick notes just are doomed - -
2021-07-07 22:00:19	Dagmar	Then spiral-bound and steno books it is
2021-07-07 22:00:23	KillerWasp	phoenixes# no. I don't remember what his normal exit was either.
2021-07-07 22:00:37	KillerWasp	https://0x0.st/-fhV.txt
2021-07-07 22:00:43	neshpion	phoenixes: ls stands for 'lemme see'
2021-07-07 22:01:39	blackgatonegro	I use a note taking app thing, saves on paper, can backup the text files and yeah I am still a mess.
2021-07-07 22:01:56	blackgatonegro	*Saves me from buying dead tree paper
2021-07-07 22:02:44	Dagmar	KillerWasp: Interesting.  Usually you'd just be accessing the one muxed device that is the sum output of all/any mice
2021-07-07 22:03:18	Khaytsus	blackgatonegro: Has this somehow turned into how to help you not forget everything?
2021-07-07 22:03:21	Dagmar	That's /dev/input/mice if I remember correctly
2021-07-07 22:03:36	solo1	 /join #hackrf
2021-07-07 22:03:42	Dagmar	Khaytsus: Well, that was offered as the thing potentially holding them back
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2021-07-07 22:03:49	blackgatonegro	Khaytsus well taking notes, setting up alarms and reminders does help.
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2021-07-07 22:03:57	Dagmar	I check man pages _constantly_.
2021-07-07 22:04:04	KillerWasp	Dagmar# yes, i have /dev/input/mice , with the same permission like other input devices
2021-07-07 22:04:09	KillerWasp	root:input
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2021-07-07 22:04:15	Dagmar	They keep me from screwing up, and occasionally I find cool new stuff that's shown up since I last looked at one
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2021-07-07 22:04:48	Dagmar	KillerWasp: Possibly ManyMice has outlived it's usefulness
2021-07-07 22:04:57	neshpion	i don't think i'm old enough to have ever witnessed a manpage change
2021-07-07 22:05:01	blackgatonegro	I tended to visit linux forums but dunno if they are still active.
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2021-07-07 22:05:47	blackgatonegro	I am old enough to remember when asking the dev on irc if the help text file doesn't help was an actual option.
2021-07-07 22:06:01	blackgatonegro	Wait not irc, AIM.
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2021-07-07 22:06:32	blackgatonegro	I am not THAT old.
2021-07-07 22:06:42	phoenixes	whats AIM?
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2021-07-07 22:06:59	neshpion	aol instant messenger
2021-07-07 22:07:07	Khaytsus	Old school messenger
2021-07-07 22:07:10	autopsy	AIM: when you target something through your sights
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2021-07-07 22:07:22	blackgatonegro	AIM America Online Currently Defunt Chatting online program.
2021-07-07 22:07:23	autopsy	Old school my ass.
2021-07-07 22:07:25	Khaytsus	AIM, MSN, ICQ, etc
2021-07-07 22:07:27	neshpion	"shoot him a message" was more literal back in the day
2021-07-07 22:07:34	autopsy	I'm using AIM right now.
2021-07-07 22:07:49	Khaytsus	autopsy: go drunk, you're home
2021-07-07 22:08:02	autopsy	I'm at school thank you.
2021-07-07 22:08:07	neshpion	go go gadget beer goggles
2021-07-07 22:08:15	blackgatonegro	autopsy you mean the email?
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2021-07-07 22:08:41	autopsy	What quit looking through my windows.
2021-07-07 22:09:53	autopsy	I haven't seen RTFM in a bit.
2021-07-07 22:09:54	blackgatonegro	AOL and Yahoo (not the Japanese one) got bought by a equity firm aka were companies go to die.
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2021-07-07 22:10:17	blackgatonegro	Or however you write it.
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2021-07-07 22:12:16	blackgatonegro	Talking about old school I used to chat with someone who got into irc using a Dreamcast... And it was like 2009.
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2021-07-07 22:12:38	Wafficus	can anyone help with a Samba issue I've been having?
2021-07-07 22:13:09	Wafficus	I'm currently getting this error, "tree connect failed: NT_STATUS_BAD_NETWORK_NAME"
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2021-07-07 22:13:11	circuitbone	#samba
2021-07-07 22:13:26	Wafficus	thanks
2021-07-07 22:13:28	circuitbone	#samba-technical
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2021-07-07 22:13:30	circuitbone	np
2021-07-07 22:14:16	Dagmar	It might help to know what you're tryuing to get it to do
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2021-07-07 22:26:15	Wafficus	yep tried on those channels, no response. Anyone decent with Samba? Just wanted to ask before trying later this week
2021-07-07 22:26:39	Wafficus	Only thing I could find was to disable Selinux on Fedora Server which might have been blocking it
2021-07-07 22:27:06	Dagmar	I use Samba "recreationally"
2021-07-07 22:27:21	Dagmar	Disabling Selinux is an easy enough test, as is checking /var/log/audit.log at the time of hte event
2021-07-07 22:27:57	Dagmar	There are _definitely_ some selinux booleans relating to Samba you probably should look at.  `getsebool -a | grep samba` and if anything looks directly related, flip it and see
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2021-07-07 22:28:52	Wafficus	yeah I disabled it by just marking it as disabled in the config in /etc/sysconfig/selinux but no dice, still unable to connect to that samba share for some reason
2021-07-07 22:28:59	Wafficus	nice, will check that out and put it in my notes
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2021-07-07 22:29:00	Wafficus	thanks Dagmar
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2021-07-07 22:29:56	Dagmar	Okay, setting it as disabled there _won't_ disable it unless you reboot because at boot time is the only time that's read.
2021-07-07 22:30:09	Dagmar	If you want to disable it like, right away, use `setenforce 0`
2021-07-07 22:30:23	Dagmar	Then restart Samba and take a crack at it.  If that doesn't work, pastebin your Samba config somewhere
2021-07-07 22:30:38	Dagmar	The "tree connect" thing I can't even guess what it's trying to do
2021-07-07 22:31:04	Dagmar	If it's exposing a more or less basic fileshare, those are pretty straightforward
2021-07-07 22:31:33	Dagmar	Note: Don't _leave_ it disabled if Selinux isn't being a problem.  You're almost always better with that on
2021-07-07 22:32:03	Dagmar	For the vast majority of things, there's just a boolean to tweak, and occasionally a label to change with semanage/restorecon
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2021-07-07 22:33:06	Dagmar	Uhh... doing some quick Googling, my guess is that you're trying to share a non-standard location with Samba
2021-07-07 22:33:30	Wafficus	ah so I should mount the drive in /opt/PS2HDD
2021-07-07 22:33:31	Wafficus	I see
2021-07-07 22:33:32	Dagmar	THat's a thing you can usually just fix with semanage/restorecon, but let's not get crazy and expose /etc or something like that
2021-07-07 22:33:48	Wafficus	that doesn't seem too bad of a fix
2021-07-07 22:33:55	Dagmar	Adding a label to something with a "common" label already applied generally hurts nothihng
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2021-07-07 22:33:59	Wafficus	I just have to mess with the /etc/fstab portion
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2021-07-07 22:34:06	Dagmar	Some things you just wind up breaking something else
2021-07-07 22:34:10	Wafficus	since I automount that drive to /media/PS2HDD
2021-07-07 22:34:27	Wafficus	I'll just modify it to be /opt/PS2HDD in that case
2021-07-07 22:34:27	Wafficus	one sec
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2021-07-07 22:35:03	blackgatonegro	Usually is better to use Samba in its own dedicated machine, but that's for regular use.
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2021-07-07 22:37:28	_73	how can I start a program as a child of another program where I specify the parent with a pid?
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2021-07-07 22:38:13	blackgatonegro	Uh, don't you mean starting it as a different user?
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2021-07-07 22:39:16	_73	no. What I am using tabbed, and I want to open a new program as a child process of the existing tabbed program.
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2021-07-07 22:39:43	blackgatonegro	Ah, So run X, to run Y, to run Z?
2021-07-07 22:39:50	_73	I have tabbed's pid, now I want to open say htop as a child of tabbed
2021-07-07 22:40:01	Wafficus	blackgatonegro gotcha thanks Dagmar
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2021-07-07 22:45:14	blackgatonegro	_73 did you check the program readme files, the faq and the webpage and github page if it has them?
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2021-07-07 22:46:55	blackgatonegro	https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/suckless-tools/tabbed.1.en.html
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2021-07-07 22:49:36	_73	yes I read the maunal, faq, and github page. I would like to know if it is possible to fork a process by specifying a parent pid.
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2021-07-07 22:56:15	Haxxa	Kingston A2000 have a bug where they drop from the Machine due to firmware issues under linux: I used https://basic-tutorials.com/kingston-ssd-a2000-bug-fixable-with-update/ to fix this bug, but it still occurs and my zfs pool is regularly Degraded.
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