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2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Topic for #python is "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:59
2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Channel #python: 1597 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1597 normals)
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2021-05-12 22:21:17	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
2021-05-12 22:21:39	ammar2	SnoopJ: marshal does support None objects theoretically, we were just trying to avoid it for some reason I don't recall https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-657-include-fine-grained-error-locations-in-tracebacks/8629/16?u=ammaraskar
2021-05-12 22:21:59	ammar2	so the idea would be to just make the column info array None when it's disabled
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2021-05-12 22:24:09	SnoopJ	I like those ^^^ quite a lot!
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2021-05-12 22:24:49	blackleitus	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67513173/how-can-i-fix-reverse-command-managment-between-client-server
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2021-05-12 22:26:49	SnoopJ	oh, I *very* much like that it can tell you where the failure started in an expr like `d[a][b][c]`
2021-05-12 22:27:01	sartan	Yeah, that's very nice
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2021-05-12 22:27:51	sartan	Wonder how something split over multiple lines would look
2021-05-12 22:28:10	stealth_	SnoopJ, you talking about 3.10 traceback  improvements?
2021-05-12 22:28:12	sartan	foo(a,b,c['z']['x'] \ <next line> ['y']...
2021-05-12 22:28:28	sartan	stealth_: yeah that was the pep i was asking about
2021-05-12 22:28:30	ammar2	sartan: it'll just be ^^^^^^^ up to the end of the line in that case
2021-05-12 22:28:44	ammar2	sartan: because the traceback machinery doesn't print multiple lines ):
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2021-05-12 22:29:23	sartan	Yeah, I've got lots of #pylint:disable=ling-too-long simply so the tracebacks are readable in some places
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2021-05-12 22:29:37	stealth_	sartan, this is what i am talking about https://docs.python.org/3.10/whatsnew/3.10.html#better-error-messages
2021-05-12 22:29:58	SnoopJ	stealth_, no, we are discussing PEP 657, which has Python-Version 3.11
2021-05-12 22:29:59	sartan	yeah, isn't that PEP-657 that implements those error messages?
2021-05-12 22:30:06	sartan	Or is that a different release?
2021-05-12 22:30:12	SnoopJ	this is a draft
2021-05-12 22:30:13	ammar2	nah the 3.10 improvements are separate
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2021-05-12 22:30:16	ammar2	and already in
2021-05-12 22:30:24	SnoopJ	but it looks like there's a pretty good implementation already :)
2021-05-12 22:30:31	ammar2	this PEP is yet to be accepted though we already have a proof-of-concept
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2021-05-12 22:31:26	stealth_	i for one welcome the new changes in 3.10+ traceback has been a pain so (at times) so far.
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2021-05-12 22:33:27	stealth_	ammar2, do you know off hand about the speed of pattern matching? you at one point said it would be slower then using if statements.
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2021-05-12 22:33:57	ammar2	uhh I don't recall saying that and sorry, I'm not sure about its performance
2021-05-12 22:34:30	stealth_	ammar2, its cool, maybe it was year or so ago :)
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2021-05-12 22:38:22	lmt	hi, can anyone recommend any open source projects showcasing clean, idiomatic, modern, high quality Python code?
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2021-05-12 22:39:58	lmt	it can be your own project as long as you believe that description applies :P
2021-05-12 22:40:43	stealth_	lmt, everyone code is high quality code to them as they understand it better!
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2021-05-12 22:41:25	blackleitus	what am I doing wrong here? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67513173/how-can-i-fix-reverse-command-managment-between-client-server?noredirect=1#comment119331948_67513173
2021-05-12 22:41:44	blackleitus	it should controller gives command to client , and not client to server
2021-05-12 22:42:13	stealth_	blackleitus, you reinventing ssh?
2021-05-12 22:42:44	blackleitus	just for learning , and how socketserver works
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2021-05-12 22:43:21	InPhase	stealth_: As a good rule of thumb, regardless of how experienced you are, if you can't understand why at least half of the code you write is crap, then you're probably part of the quality problem.
2021-05-12 22:43:22	stealth_	blackleitus, better to use stuff like asyncio, trio, ... socketserver is outdate
2021-05-12 22:43:25	blackleitus	+stealth_, and yeah. I need to simulate ssh or nc feature in python
2021-05-12 22:44:22	blackleitus	sure, but this time socketserver. how can I reverse the commands?
2021-05-12 22:44:25	InPhase	stealth_: That self-critique process is essential for progress.
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2021-05-12 22:46:13	stealth_	InPhase, well that's when experience comes in play, you improve as you learn more/better way of doing things.
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2021-05-12 22:49:23	stealth_	blackleitus, o, why do you have `os.popen` in there
2021-05-12 22:50:46	blackleitus	for the command management
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2021-05-12 23:02:09	SnoopJ	stealth_, the bytecode emitted for a match looks pretty reasonable to me, but I'm not sure this is any indicator of performance. It looks pretty much like what I'd expect for an equivalent tree of if/elif, though.
2021-05-12 23:03:51	stealth_	SnoopJ, if that's the case, that cool.
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2021-05-12 23:05:34	stealth_	SnoopJ, isn't the whole point using match/cache in C to improve speed vs if/elif
2021-05-12 23:05:40	SnoopJ	no
2021-05-12 23:07:13	SnoopJ	stealth_, the point is to let you write programs with semantics that are nice to express that way, for example: https://bpaste.net/HENQ
2021-05-12 23:07:30	SnoopJ	(oops, forgot to finish the module docstring)
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2021-05-12 23:09:08	stealth_	SnoopJ, well thats what is being implemented as in python. i was pretty sure in C they do consider it to be faster then if
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2021-05-12 23:09:43	SnoopJ	stealth_, C doesn't have pattern matching
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2021-05-12 23:10:01	SnoopJ	(they are not switch statements)
2021-05-12 23:10:09	stealth_	SnoopJ, ya i meant basic switch case
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2021-05-12 23:12:49	deltab	it depends on specifics like the processor architecture and the number of cases
2021-05-12 23:13:49	deltab	a compiler can output a series of conditional branches or conditional other instructions, in some architectures, or a jump table
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2021-05-12 23:15:11	deltab	in simpler compilers those would correspond to if and switch, but a smarter compiler can choose whichever implementation works best, regardless of whether you use switch or if or ? :
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2021-05-12 23:16:02	stealth_	that makes sense
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2021-05-12 23:18:36	buntspecht	hi, i want to identify "keyword clusters" from a text. i learned that kmeans clustering might be a good starting point. i think its a pretty common task. are there any good libraries that i can build on without implementing this algo myself?
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2021-05-12 23:22:25	SnoopJ	stealth_, but again: pattern matching is *much* more expressive than a switch. You can't express something like `case Point(x, y) if x < y**2:` easily in a C switch, you'd have to run the test (and any others you want to branch on) and store the results in a bitmask or something.
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2021-05-12 23:25:36	sartan	isn't there some sort of compiler optimization available for branch prediction on multiple if/then/else vs switch?
2021-05-12 23:25:57	sartan	which is why it's so prevalant in c
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2021-05-12 23:26:10	sartan	it's syntaxical convienence is just a benefit
2021-05-12 23:26:13	sartan	its*
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2021-05-12 23:26:21	sartan	An extra benefit that is ^_^
2021-05-12 23:26:39	stealth_	SnoopJ, my concern is, if it switch my code from using `if ... elif` to using `switch .. match` all of a sudden, i don't want lose speed, even if its using bitmask
2021-05-12 23:27:06	sartan	switch in c is faster than if else
2021-05-12 23:27:39	leduyquang753	Talking about this reminds me about YanDev...
2021-05-12 23:27:41	parabolize	I think the major push for pattern matching in high level languages is compile time type checks
2021-05-12 23:27:51	SnoopJ	sartan, I think of it like an inverted goto: `switch(val){ case foo: whatever(); break; case bar: whatever(); break }` can be turned into "test `val` and jump to the right spot"
2021-05-12 23:28:42	Hash	Hello the friends of python
2021-05-12 23:28:45	Hash	https://github.com/AceLewis/my_first_calculator.py/blob/master/my_first_calculator.py
2021-05-12 23:28:47	sartan	when i think of pattern matching and branch optimization, there's always some sort of backreference that needs to happen; eg, some future match that negates the finding of previous matches
2021-05-12 23:28:54	sartan	so it cannot be predicted
2021-05-12 23:29:00	Hash	What do you make of this code here?
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2021-05-12 23:29:09	Hash	Please don't yell at me.
2021-05-12 23:30:07	SnoopJ	it's basically a DSL for describing arbitrary checks: the pattern matcher goes through the cases until it finds a hit, and that is a very arbitrary amount of code
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2021-05-12 23:31:00	stealth_	this person in ##C said "int10h ... one other thing: i'd be careful calling a switch a "match." Python has structural pattern matching coming out in a future version, and it has already confused a lot of people because syntactically, it kind of looks like a C-style switch statement, but in actuality, it works more like OCaml-style pattern matching, and those two things work totally differently! so just to avoid confusion in
2021-05-12 23:31:00	stealth_	this new confusing"
2021-05-12 23:31:23	Hash	Is this a joke?
2021-05-12 23:31:24	ammar2	yup that's literally what SnoopJ said earilier
2021-05-12 23:31:35	Hash	I don't... I'm not... why would someone take the time to code that?
2021-05-12 23:31:43	Hash	Is this for real?
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2021-05-12 23:31:52	Hash	Or did I take too many mushrooms again.
2021-05-12 23:32:04	ammar2	Hash: read the README
2021-05-12 23:33:06	SnoopJ	It's kind of an homage, I guess
2021-05-12 23:33:17	Hash	Oh poor guy.
2021-05-12 23:33:21	Hash	I feel bad for him.
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2021-05-12 23:33:39	Hash	I mean. The original student guy I mean in class who did the all nighter.
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2021-05-12 23:33:54	Hash	I dunno. Maybe I just feel bad for everyone all the time
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2021-05-12 23:34:27	Hash	Poor guy. He thought this is how you do it. I don't even know why I feel bad for him.
2021-05-12 23:34:45	SnoopJ	They clearly understand state machines, and that's something!
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2021-05-12 23:35:40	SnoopJ	stealth_, the proposal for pattern matching mentions OCaml several times as a direct influence on its syntax, yes
2021-05-12 23:35:47	Hash	Ok thanks dudes.
2021-05-12 23:35:49	Hash	o/
2021-05-12 23:36:29	stealth_	SnoopJ, i would have to read up on it.
2021-05-12 23:37:48	SnoopJ	stealth_, PEP 636 is a pretty good tutorial: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0636/
2021-05-12 23:39:07	sartan	Hash: LOL just looked at that
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2021-05-12 23:39:49	sartan	TODO: add another 15 million lines to process numbers > 100k
2021-05-12 23:40:07	sartan	the professor says developers are paid by lines of code
2021-05-12 23:41:18	yitz	I've yet to see that happen
2021-05-12 23:41:34	yitz	Though I did get a "badge" for deleting many lines of code.
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2021-05-12 23:42:46	Ashburry	My app is much faster now that I repaired the colour stripping code. I posted the code on StackOverflow. It was difficult but I strip the codes off perfectly with no errors even in strange formatting sequence
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2021-05-12 23:43:51	mike18	hi how can i measure the time and print in this format? start = timeit.default_timer() ... end = timeit.default_timer() logging.info("Duration: (hh:mm:ss.ms)".format(end - start))
2021-05-12 23:44:42	Ashburry	I think you need to use ctime
2021-05-12 23:44:58	mike18	i read people suggest timeit
2021-05-12 23:45:12	Ashburry	you can use timeit but you also need ctime I think
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2021-05-12 23:47:27	Ashburry	in mIRC it would be %start = $ctime, end = $ctime then $duration(%start - %end)
2021-05-12 23:47:33	Ashburry	or something like that
2021-05-12 23:47:57	Ashburry	%end - %start
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2021-05-12 23:49:04	mike18	i need timeit and ctime - both?
2021-05-12 23:49:05	Ashburry	maybe you just need a duration function
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2021-05-12 23:52:59	Ashburry	that bug in my proxy has been crashing me for some time now. I finally just fixed it
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2021-05-12 23:53:09	Ashburry	evertime someone changed their nick my app crashed
2021-05-12 23:53:59	Ashburry	it would be nice if I had some code coverage to find flaws like that one. concatinating a string to a list is easy to find for 3rd party tools I would think.
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2021-05-12 23:59:45	RavinduL	Hiya! What does a single asterisk mean as a function parameter in Python? e.g.: https://github.com/ros2/rclpy/blob/master/rclpy/rclpy/node.py#L1364
2021-05-13 00:00:08	yitz	It forces everything after it to be a kwarg IIRC
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2021-05-13 00:00:35	yitz	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3102/  https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0570/
2021-05-13 00:00:49	SnoopJ	RavinduL, what yitz said
2021-05-13 00:01:26	RavinduL	wow thanks! I've gotta read up on this stuff
2021-05-13 00:01:33	yitz	Erm. Second line only
2021-05-13 00:01:34	stealth_	SnoopJ, ya they are nothing alike, maybe python should have came up with different syntax to lesses confusion.
2021-05-13 00:01:38	RavinduL	yitz, SnoopJ, thanks ^^
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2021-05-13 00:03:53	SnoopJ	stealth_, I have no idea what you mean
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2021-05-13 00:04:35	stealth_	SnoopJ, match switch
2021-05-13 00:05:01	SnoopJ	stealth_, ...are already different keywords?
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2021-05-13 00:05:19	stealth_	SnoopJ, i mean `match case` which is a lot like `switch case` thus ppl will assume they are same!
2021-05-13 00:05:52	stealth_	also that pep has error can that be corrected?
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2021-05-13 00:06:25	SnoopJ	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/#reporting-pep-bugs-or-submitting-pep-updates
2021-05-13 00:06:32	SnoopJ	What's the error?
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2021-05-13 00:07:08	Ashburry	whats the single / mean as function argument in the docs?
2021-05-13 00:07:49	phy1729	things before it have to be positional parameters
2021-05-13 00:07:56	sartan	did i just obsolete case switches? cases = { 'foo': fn_foo, 'bar': fn_bar}; cases.get(switch, lambda *args: None)()
2021-05-13 00:08:00	sartan	I think i'm trolling, disregard
2021-05-13 00:08:24	phy1729	Ashburry: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0457/
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2021-05-13 00:08:32	stealth_	SnoopJ, o, nm, my linter doesn't know of the new syntax yet, so its reporting error :)
2021-05-13 00:08:47	Ashburry	phy1729, thank you
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2021-05-13 00:12:17	stealth_	sartan, that was the reasoning why python didn't need `switch case` cause of how dict key (being hashed) worked.
2021-05-13 00:14:25	sartan	interesting
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2021-05-13 00:15:38	stealth_	sartan, the new feature being added is `match case` not `switch case` so something totally different. (though it was confusing me as well)
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2021-05-13 00:16:07	jim	hi, a few weeks ago, I tried to find out what @(someObjectHere) means, and google just doesnt know... what's this syntax connected with, and where is it documented?
2021-05-13 00:16:11	sartan	maybe i need to pay more attention to the stuff chat is referring to because now i'm confused what those differences would even be
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2021-05-13 00:16:40	stealth_	sartan, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0636/
2021-05-13 00:16:44	KirkMcDonald	jim: It's a decorator.
2021-05-13 00:17:39	jim	ok, rather than ask what decorators do, where are they documented so I could read up?
2021-05-13 00:17:45	sartan	stealth_: wow, that looks quite foreign to how i think case statements would be
2021-05-13 00:17:54	yitz	Google "python decorator"
2021-05-13 00:17:55	stealth_	sartan, confusion come from other language having `switch case` so when python came out with `match case` thought it the same thing, but its NOT :)
2021-05-13 00:18:09	sartan	yeah this is very different
2021-05-13 00:18:09	jim	yitz, ok
2021-05-13 00:18:50	sartan	its like sort of a mix of the walrus operator plus flow control
2021-05-13 00:18:58	stealth_	sartan, yes, but i can totally see myself using `match something.split(): case 'one': .. case 'two': ...`
2021-05-13 00:19:12	sartan	right!
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2021-05-13 00:20:09	jim	found a RealPython page, titled 'Primer on Python Decorators', that any good?
2021-05-13 00:20:51	Ashburry	I wouldn't mind having a 'goto newline' then having an ':newline' to go to
2021-05-13 00:20:52	yitz	Yes
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2021-05-13 00:21:22	jim	ok, I'll check it out; thanks
2021-05-13 00:21:31	Ashburry	goto is not very pythonic though
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2021-05-13 00:27:30	SnoopJ	jim, seems pretty sane, although it takes a while to get to decorators themselves.
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2021-05-13 00:30:41	sartan	i think the way to learn decorators is try to implement one, with and without arguments, as they can behave  pretty weirdly. Wrap some functions around som elog handlers or something and you'll start to sort of figure out how they work
2021-05-13 00:31:06	sartan	I found when I first started getting into python, just reading about them was really hard to adapt and understand when they would be helpful or needed
2021-05-13 00:31:10	jim	SnoopJ, thanks for the comment; this one happens to have a video, I've had success with those
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2021-05-13 00:31:49	SnoopJ	jim, I've generally liked the articles on that site, and I just purchased the hardcopy book they're advertising, which I've been eagerly anticipating :)
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2021-05-13 00:33:38	stealth_	i guess you can't do `cache 'one':` you have to `case 'one',:` or `catch ['one']:` that is a bla
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2021-05-13 00:34:08	stealth_	jim, https://www.pythonsheets.com/notes/python-func.html?highlight=decorator#decorator
2021-05-13 00:34:13	Ashburry	Jim: I have four videos from PEARSON_PYTHON_SURVIVAL_SKILLS_CODE_LIKE_A_PRO_LIVELESSONS I can zip and send you if you would accept?
2021-05-13 00:36:26	Evidlo	is there a better way to handle data from 3 streams at once?  I've found that stream.setblocking(0) and catching the TimeoutError is too slow
2021-05-13 00:36:38	Ashburry	You would have to have forwarding on your router because I can't do that on me end
2021-05-13 00:36:42	yitz	async?
2021-05-13 00:37:13	Evidlo	maybe it would be faster to try to check how many bytes are available, rather than wait for a TimeoutError?
2021-05-13 00:37:42	Ashburry	Evidlo, try trio
2021-05-13 00:38:11	jim	Ashburry, ok, thanks... one sec
2021-05-13 00:38:26	Ashburry	trio.serve_tcp(handler,port)
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2021-05-13 00:38:45	Ashburry	its async so it is fast
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2021-05-13 00:39:32	jim	Ashburry, oops, had to abort the transfer, could you start it again?
2021-05-13 00:40:02	Mrbuck	Ashburry: those videos 99$ lol  pycon videos cover all of them for free on youtube
2021-05-13 00:40:10	Mrbuck	99$*
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2021-05-13 00:40:18	Mrbuck	199$*
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2021-05-13 00:41:20	Ashburry	maybe HexChat is not compatable with mIRC for dcc send
2021-05-13 00:41:45	yitz	Done properly, they should both be talking the same DCC protocol
2021-05-13 00:41:53	yitz	That's sorta the purpose of having a protocol
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2021-05-13 00:42:30	Ashburry	if you have a torrent client you can download PEARSON_PYTHON_SURVIVAL_SKILLS_CODE_LIKE_A_PRO_LIVELESSONS-iLLiTERATE
2021-05-13 00:42:34	Ashburry	its 11GB though
2021-05-13 00:43:14	jim	I probably do... I have to be doing something wrong with this transfer
2021-05-13 00:43:18	stealth_	if you can afford it, better to support the author
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2021-05-13 00:45:14	sartan	I can't learn from videos, they feel too slow. A good rendered sphinx doc is really the most ideal way imo
2021-05-13 00:45:32	Ashburry	I agree, but there is no way I can afford to pay to watch 4 videos on Decorators. The rest of the videos are very basic, alot of number wrangling with lists and sets its difficult and very basic
2021-05-13 00:46:04	stealth_	Ashburry, https://www.pythonsheets.com/notes/python-func.html?highlight=decorator#decorator
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2021-05-13 00:46:25	sartan	decorator summary: 'before you enter this function, enter this function first'
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2021-05-13 00:47:01	Evidlo	is there a cross-platform way to check the number of bytes available on a stream?
2021-05-13 00:47:38	phy1729	I thought the PEP was a nice intro to decorators https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0318/
2021-05-13 00:48:24	jim	I tell ya what, let's kill this transfer for now, I have a video that wants to explain decorators (it started by looking at functions; lets see where it goes from there); if I see use for them in my code, I might ask for the address for the videos... so it's moreorless idle curiousity right now, the video should show what can be done
2021-05-13 00:48:39	Ashburry	sartan: cool cheat sheet. I don't know when I would use it though atm
2021-05-13 00:49:34	sartan	Ashburry: the first project that really made decorators 'click' for me was one of my first flask apps implementing user authentication, and IMO this is a good practical application of decorators https://pythonprogramming.net/decorator-wrappers-flask-tutorial-login-required/ that isn't necessarily a 'decorator tutorial' but more on 'how when and why to use one'
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2021-05-13 00:50:14	sartan	Maybe not that page in specific, but flask decoration is a good practical use case
2021-05-13 00:50:53	deltab	jim: yeah, it's one of those features that can seem pointless until you find you have a need for them
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2021-05-13 00:52:13	jim	deltab, yeah, that's been my guess, as I've done a number of things without having to use (or understand) decorators
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2021-05-13 00:52:59	Ashburry	I like Flask decorators for mapping the urls to the webpage data.
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2021-05-13 00:53:32	ammar2	yeah you can often make pretty neat apis with decorators
2021-05-13 00:53:38	ammar2	attrs is also a good example
2021-05-13 00:53:55	sartan	@app.route(url) instructs flask to install a blueprint uri path to that resource, with the callback being the function you are decorating.  You don't want to try to insert your own app.add_url_rule('/url', homepage()).  You can just @app.route('/url'); def homepage().
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2021-05-13 00:55:46	sartan	You want to add authentication? that's even less boilerplate.  just drop @login_Required, which already handles session management, authentication page redirects, session keys, crsf stuff, etc.
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2021-05-13 00:56:03	sartan	The atlernative would be a bunch of functions you write yourself and call them on every function that relates to every api endpoint you have
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2021-05-13 01:08:22	Ashburry	I notice he makes the mistake of indenting his html by opening/closing blocks. that can bite you if your not careful
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2021-05-13 01:12:06	SnoopJ	jim, you can write quite a wide variety of programs that make absolutely no use of functions as first-class objects, but the fact that functions can be passed around as data enables some very neat tricks.
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2021-05-13 01:16:17	SnoopJ	`click` is a great example of decorators put to good use: you put all the CLI information in the decoration of a command and get the commandline arguments/options as arguments in the decorated function.
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2021-05-13 01:21:00	audiofreeze	can anyone help ? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67514220/django-formset-model-not-being-created-correctly
2021-05-13 01:21:06	jim	is click a metronome?
2021-05-13 01:21:43	jim	I dunno that much about django... only took the demo
2021-05-13 01:22:55	SnoopJ	jim, it's a library that makes creating commandline tools pretty simple, relying heavily on decorators: https://click.palletsprojects.com/en/8.0.x/#
2021-05-13 01:23:18	blackleitus	why socketserver is out of date?
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2021-05-13 01:53:44	Ashburry	I just made protection against mIRC exploit in my proxy server @ https://github.com/ashburry/trio_ircproxy
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2021-05-13 01:54:02	audiofreeze	can anyone help ? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67514220/django-formset-model-not-being-created-correctly
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2021-05-13 01:54:26	Ashburry	almost 1000 lines of code
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2021-05-13 01:54:44	audiofreeze	Ashburry, cat
2021-05-13 01:54:50	audiofreeze	just, cat.
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2021-05-13 01:55:28	Ashburry	what is cat?
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2021-05-13 01:57:38	Ashburry	do you mean just netcat for a client? lol
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2021-05-13 01:57:42	Ashburry	what is cat?!?
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2021-05-13 02:00:44	Ashburry	/stats M is pretty iteresting
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2021-05-13 02:36:08	Ashburry	is it possible to have a proxy server with SSL connection to mIRC and an IRC Server when mirc only supports ssl to the irc server not the proxy server?
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2021-05-13 02:37:14	Ashburry	I wrapped the socket connected to mirc in an ssl wrapper but mirc did not accept the connection but the irc server did support an ssl connection using the same technique
2021-05-13 02:38:06	yitz	You could pass non-SSL traffic over an SSL-encrypted tunnel. Does mIRC use a different protocol for connecting to IRC servers and proxy servers?
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2021-05-13 02:39:04	Ashburry	for proxy servers its just plain text 'connect server:ip http/1.0\r\n\r\n'
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2021-05-13 02:39:14	Ashburry	then it switches to ssl
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2021-05-13 02:50:18	audiofreeze	can anyone help? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67514220/django-formset-model-not-being-created-correctly
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2021-05-13 02:52:00	yitz	If the program doesn't talk SSL then it doesn't talk SSL *shrugs*
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2021-05-13 02:52:12	yitz	That's what tunnels are for
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2021-05-13 02:53:44	teut	audiofreeze , have you checked if it's entering the form_valid?
2021-05-13 02:54:02	Thanatos	Hello everyone
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2021-05-13 02:54:57	audiofreeze	teut, "it" you mean the popup_form_set data?
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2021-05-13 02:56:42	teut	where is that form which receives the youtube id and other stufff?
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2021-05-13 02:57:44	teut	oh ok, so its a CreateView modelform
2021-05-13 02:57:53	audiofreeze	yes
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2021-05-13 02:59:54	teut	self.get_success_url()    where is this?
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2021-05-13 03:00:29	teut	I only use   redirect("name"), if I m right that function does similar thing
2021-05-13 03:01:05	audiofreeze	teut, that's on the model
2021-05-13 03:01:18	audiofreeze	and that part works fine
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2021-05-13 03:02:04	teut	that was awkward since there is already the  get_success_url in the CreateView
2021-05-13 03:02:16	teut	you should overwrite that method, not the models
2021-05-13 03:02:21	teut	model's
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2021-05-13 03:02:24	audiofreeze	teut, oh, sorry, on the model it's get_absolute_url
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2021-05-13 03:02:53	audiofreeze	teut, the current get_success_url works fine
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2021-05-13 03:02:59	teut	 return HttpResponseRedirect(self.get_success_url())      , instead use     redirect("name")
2021-05-13 03:03:07	teut	ok
2021-05-13 03:03:31	teut	have to checked if that form_valid is being entered?
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2021-05-13 03:05:03	teut	it looks like you are using that Youtube id data in another  view, so you need to use cookies
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2021-05-13 03:06:53	audiofreeze	teut, i changed it to `redirect`, same result. again, nothing was wrong with get_success_url
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2021-05-13 03:07:51	audiofreeze	teut, so youtube_id is saving but the popups are not
2021-05-13 03:08:35	audiofreeze	found out from printing `print(self.object)` in `form_valid` after the `popup_form_set.instance = self.object` line
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2021-05-13 03:12:06	Thanatos	I want to perform an operation similar to rolling windows in pandas. I want to get the value of an adjacent row and use it to determine the value of the current row. https://i.imgur.com/bqzgH0H.png
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2021-05-13 03:13:04	teut	hey why your livestream_create has the Popups?
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2021-05-13 03:13:59	audiofreeze	teut, client wants popup forum on the same page as the livestream form
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2021-05-13 03:14:08	audiofreeze	form*
2021-05-13 03:14:17	teut	oh wait I have made something like that before
2021-05-13 03:14:32	audiofreeze	great
2021-05-13 03:14:40	teut	when you redirect, your form data is lost
2021-05-13 03:15:05	audiofreeze	what about form.save()? it should be saved to the database...
2021-05-13 03:15:07	teut	so when you get your youtube id etc, store it in cookies
2021-05-13 03:15:15	teut	that's not needed
2021-05-13 03:15:21	audiofreeze	yes it is
2021-05-13 03:15:21	teut	let me find that code
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2021-05-13 03:16:03	teut	https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.2/topics/http/sessions/#django.contrib.sessions.serializers.JSONSerializer
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2021-05-13 03:16:56	teut	when the form  with youtube id  is validated and  form_valid is called     , store all your data in self.request.session
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2021-05-13 03:17:52	pi-	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67515134/process-websocket-stream-while-downloading-multiple-files-using-aiohttp <-- Can anyone advise me how I might crack this nut?
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2021-05-13 03:18:49	audiofreeze	teut, why wouldn't i store it in the db?
2021-05-13 03:18:58	audiofreeze	thats the whole point...
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2021-05-13 03:19:18	teut	when you redirect, your  form data is lost
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2021-05-13 03:19:30	supakeen	You can store the form data before you redirect.
2021-05-13 03:19:40	teut	what what I said
2021-05-13 03:19:44	teut	thats
2021-05-13 03:20:31	teut	and then some nasty if else statement and checking if   request.session  contains that info
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2021-05-13 03:20:56	audiofreeze	teut, why wouldn't i store data in the db BEFORE the redirect
2021-05-13 03:21:09	teut	you can you are free to do anything
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2021-05-13 03:21:32	teut	ok , so you are using the db instead, alright
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2021-05-13 03:22:21	audiofreeze	why wouldnt you use the db
2021-05-13 03:22:35	summonner	you can store it in several places, session is probably the best if it's transient, memcache or redis is next best but you still need a cookie to reference, and you should never do that without enforcing cookie security otherwise user data bleeds into other users's web pages
2021-05-13 03:22:48	supakeen	You also might find more people familiar with django in #django than here.
2021-05-13 03:23:03	teut	ArticleFormSet = formset_factory(ArticleForm, extra=2)   where is this line in your code?
2021-05-13 03:23:32	teut	formset_factory creates the  form
2021-05-13 03:23:39	supakeen	It's right there teut.
2021-05-13 03:24:20	audiofreeze	teut, forms.py
2021-05-13 03:24:29	audiofreeze	its in the SO post
2021-05-13 03:25:12	teut	oh sorry , I have always put that line in views, so didnt try to find there
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2021-05-13 03:32:36	Thanatos	Anybody had a chance to look at this yet? https://i.imgur.com/bqzgH0H.png
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2021-05-13 03:33:55	jokoon	anybody using pyodide here?
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2021-05-13 03:34:19	jokoon	I'm looking at their doc and readme, seems like it's not trivial to use compared to brython
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2021-05-13 03:44:20	amo	Thanatos, what about it?
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2021-05-13 03:51:03	audiofreeze	can anyone help ? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67514220/django-formset-model-not-being-created-correctly
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2021-05-13 04:51:26	kpiyushlucky	how to interpret this error:
2021-05-13 04:51:27	kpiyushlucky	A value is trying to be set on a copy of a slice from a DataFrame
2021-05-13 04:51:28	kpiyushlucky	See the caveats in the documentation: https://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/user_guide/indexing.html#returning-a-view-versus-a-copy
2021-05-13 04:51:28	kpiyushlucky	  return super().drop(
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2021-05-13 04:52:31	ryTri	Is there any solution that helps with PyPy not supporting newer Python syntax, like type hints? I'd like to write with them for the nice Pylance/linting help, but PyPy can't handle it. If the type hints are erased at runtime anyway, is there anything along the lines of Babel that can transpile things down to a PyPy-compatible version?
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2021-05-13 04:53:42	Wulf	ryTri: type hints aren't erased at runtime. In fact they can be used to build fancy things and are then required during runtime.
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2021-05-13 04:54:48	nubonix	alright, so im experimenting with bscscan and im trying to understand whats going on.. so id like to get the balance of an address, which I have managed to do, but it shows the number in a string, without commas, and without decimals, so its making me thing that it is not reflecting the amount of a token suchas SWAMP, but something else associated with it. bscscan also does this for a token/coin suchas BNB
2021-05-13 04:54:48	nubonix	https://bpa.st/S6WA
2021-05-13 04:55:33	nubonix	a BNB address [found via a random google search] is used in the example i provided above
2021-05-13 04:55:39	Wulf	ryTri: and I think that pypy *does* support type hints
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2021-05-13 04:59:13	ryTri	Wulf: ah, damn, I wasn't aware of that. I've been under the impression that it's purely a linting feature. Maybe it's that PyPy just doesn't support the newer parts of type hinting then, like `tuple[int]` without having to import the module.
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2021-05-13 05:03:42	RhineDevil	How could I tell yapf to ignore the pattern `return(myvar)` ?
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2021-05-13 05:06:07	stealth_	RhineDevil, hmm `return` is reserved keyword
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2021-05-13 05:07:31	RhineDevil	stealth_, what do you mean? I mean when yapf formats my files, it should avoid transforming `return(myvar)` into `return (myvar)`
2021-05-13 05:10:08	stealth_	RhineDevil, `return(myvar)` looks like you are calling a function
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2021-05-13 05:11:21	RhineDevil	stealth_, yeah I'm not I still want yapf to not format it
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2021-05-13 05:21:09	nedbat	ryTri: PyPy is up to 3.7.  "tuple[int]" is a 3.9 feature (I think)
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2021-05-13 05:30:05	pi-	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67515134/process-websocket-stream-while-downloading-multiple-files-using-aiohttp <-- Can anyone help me get started on this one?
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2021-05-13 05:31:00	pi-	I need to somehow do asynchronous downloads while listening on a websocket stream.
2021-05-13 05:31:31	IHasFinger	Hi just wondering with sqlite how to get the next row when doing this https://bpa.st/L6AQ thank you
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2021-05-13 05:35:57	stealth_	IHasFinger, according to your code, you are already getting all the rows when you do `.fetchall()`
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2021-05-13 05:58:37	_habnabit	ryTri, nedbat, tuple[int] is legal in python 3.7 with future __annotations__
2021-05-13 05:58:56	nedbat	_habnabit: i knew I would get the version wrong :)
2021-05-13 05:59:09	_habnabit	ryTri, python has supported annotations since 3.0; there's no reason you can't use them in pypy
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2021-05-13 06:02:07	graingert	pi-: should be pretty easy:
2021-05-13 06:02:07	graingert	async with anyio.create_task_group() as tg: tg.start_soon(listen_ws); await download_file()
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2021-05-13 06:04:20	Ashburry	is there a way to easily install all the python packages from python 3.9.2 over to python 3.9.5 so I don't have to reinstall them all manually?
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2021-05-13 06:04:43	_habnabit	Ashburry, normally i let poetry/pipx take care of that for me
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2021-05-13 06:05:54	Ashburry	using pip is the same as manually installing. I mean, can I quick pip all my installations to the new python version?
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2021-05-13 06:06:07	_habnabit	Ashburry, no, pipx, not pip
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2021-05-13 06:06:43	Ashburry	i haven't heard of it, i'm installing now
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2021-05-13 06:09:10	IHasFinger	stealth_, yes I am but i have added an if that says if the last_post is set not empty. I want it to get the next next row i dont know how to do this :(
2021-05-13 06:09:46	Ashburry	looks like install of poetry either froze or is just *VERY* busy, like a hang busy
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2021-05-13 06:10:03	Ashburry	no cpu noise coming from my box
2021-05-13 06:10:18	Ashburry	*hard drive*
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2021-05-13 06:11:07	IHasFinger	stealth_, https://bpa.st/RNDA
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2021-05-13 06:11:49	Ashburry	i will see it comes back alive again in awhile
2021-05-13 06:11:49	stealth_	IHasFinger, do you have a column called "last_post" whats in it?
2021-05-13 06:12:27	Ashburry	WARNING: The script poetry.exe is installed in 'C:\Users\420\AppData\Roaming\Python\Python38\Scripts' which is not on PATH.
2021-05-13 06:12:40	Ashburry	\Python38\
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2021-05-13 06:13:24	graingert	RhineDevil: Use `return myvar`
2021-05-13 06:13:32	IHasFinger	stealth_, yes I do. in the table, only 1 row can have true on it everything else is null
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2021-05-13 06:15:14	stealth_	IHasFinger, I don't have enough info on how the table is structured or what data is in it help you better
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2021-05-13 06:16:45	stealth_	IHasFinger, if you do `for result in results: print(result)` can't you see what next row + data look like and code it according to that?
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2021-05-13 06:19:14	IHasFinger	stealth_, is they a website i can use to create a db online and share a link?
2021-05-13 06:19:56	stealth_	IHasFinger, i don't know of one
2021-05-13 06:20:06	IHasFinger	2 sec will ask the sql guys
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2021-05-13 06:21:54	stealth_	IHasFinger, do you not have "id" column? like `result['id']` ? you want to know what the next 'id' is right?
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2021-05-13 06:22:50	P1ckleRick	IHasFinger - Why don't you just use a trial droplet (you can have full virtual server setup in minutes).
2021-05-13 06:23:13	Ashburry	IHasFinger: i recommened CouchDB for database, it is has webserver built in. Most people who use a database shuold be using CouchDB
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2021-05-13 06:25:08	P1ckleRick	Ashburry: Why should most people use CouchDB?
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2021-05-13 06:25:35	Ashburry	it uses key=value pairs and that is how people need to access their data.
2021-05-13 06:26:05	Ashburry	javascript for map/reduce is very intuitive and works great
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2021-05-13 06:27:36	Ashburry	it uses a restful http server to interact with the databases
2021-05-13 06:27:53	P1ckleRick	Mhmm from what I've read it's still pretty immature, libraries not well maintained and doesn't support joins?
2021-05-13 06:28:50	Ashburry	I don't think you need joins
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2021-05-13 06:29:42	P1ckleRick	I do :P
2021-05-13 06:30:02	P1ckleRick	<- Having a play with it now, just to be sure
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2021-05-13 06:56:51	IHasFinger	stealth_, https://bpa.st/6BRQ#2L1 please read the comment in line 1 and 2 please
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2021-05-13 06:58:18	uhu	hello, can someone help how I can replace the following in a file from source to target. it is group-title = "VOD Series - Germany" to "group-title =" Netflix Series Kingdom "", where Kingdom is the series title and occurs further back in the line https://bpa.st/6NWA
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2021-05-13 07:01:40	stealth_	IHasFinger, do you wanting to rerun the loop again?
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2021-05-13 07:02:31	IHasFinger	I just want to get the next one based on the sequence from the last_post
2021-05-13 07:02:38	IHasFinger	not sure if i can do it with sql
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2021-05-13 07:11:11	stealth_	hmm did that person leave
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2021-05-13 07:18:52	P1ckleRick	IHasFinger: What are you trying to achieve
2021-05-13 07:19:33	IHasFinger	got dc the last message i saw is "not sure if i can do it with sql"
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2021-05-13 07:19:47	IHasFinger	P1ckleRick, no I am not doing something else
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2021-05-13 07:21:48	stealth_	IHasFinger, o hey
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2021-05-13 07:22:17	stealth_	IHasFinger, https://bpa.st/GWNA is that want you want?
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2021-05-13 07:27:55	IHasFinger	hi stealth_ looks like it i will try it out
2021-05-13 07:28:43	stealth_	IHasFinger, ok
2021-05-13 07:29:32	stealth_	IHasFinger, i just added multiple loop to show results so you can visualize whats happening.
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2021-05-13 07:33:03	IHasAnotherFinge	back i got DC
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2021-05-13 07:41:52	IHasFinger	stealth_, thats okay, https://bpa.st/IOIA with this use case if they is no next, I want it to get the first one. because the sequence has finished so the next one is sequence number 1
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2021-05-13 07:45:44	IHasFinger	stealth_, will sort it :) using len thank you
2021-05-13 07:45:50	stealth_	IHasFinger, you can just add a check `if len(results)-1 != index+1: print('fist post:', results[0])`
2021-05-13 07:46:37	stealth_	IHasFinger, maybe you don't need `-1` and `+1` but you get the idea.
2021-05-13 07:47:17	IHasFinger	i was going to do if len(results) == index: print("we are at the end")
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2021-05-13 07:47:52	stealth_	IHasFinger, whatever floats the boat.
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2021-05-13 07:49:37	IHasFinger	stealth_, last question if results[index-1] give you the previous and results[index+1] the next one. How to get the very first?
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2021-05-13 07:50:31	stealth_	IHasFinger, `result[0]`
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2021-05-13 07:53:21	stealth_	IHasFinger, `results[0]` typo
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2021-05-13 08:02:16	IronHEDGE	Anyone aware of a flask facial recognition piece that doesn’t have to be trained? I’m wishing to use school photos to make an attendance system but the current and closes 1 I’ve tried takes a good 15 min to process and gets the faces wrong, although it does have 2,000 image to process. So I’m wondering if it’s even possible? I’m assuming so with the right algorithm?
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2021-05-13 08:13:38	bancroft	FastAPI vs Django, what do you think?
2021-05-13 08:13:52	IHasFinger	stealth_, thanks :)
2021-05-13 08:13:57	IHasFinger	bed time for me
2021-05-13 08:15:23	bancroft	django has a pro, I don't really want to use alembic or sqlalchemy... FastAPI is more async ready ...
2021-05-13 08:16:15	bancroft	I'm pretty torn up here
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2021-05-13 08:18:02	spiri	i wrote a script for reading lines of a file starting from the end and without blowing up the memory -- https://gist.github.com/sspiri/ba89ff86bf6686e6683f5c8d8aa8e69a
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2021-05-13 08:24:29	astronavt	bancroft: if you don't need an orm and/or one of the specific django middlewares, don't use django (imo)
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2021-05-13 08:26:00	astronavt	on the other hand, if you _do_ need an orm, it's hard to go wrong with django behind gunicorn. no reason to use async for the sake of async.
2021-05-13 08:26:56	bancroft	astronavt: I don't need one, but I do think it's simpler to have one
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2021-05-13 08:27:38	astronavt	you could be a real hipster and use uvicorn + quart + one of the async orms
2021-05-13 08:28:03	astronavt	but at that point maybe go with fastapi? im not sure how well it integrates with an orm
2021-05-13 08:28:13	astronavt	and sqlalchemy does i believe support async now
2021-05-13 08:28:22	bancroft	ᕕ(⌐■_■)ᕗ ♪♬ real hipster
2021-05-13 08:28:24	bancroft	lol
2021-05-13 08:29:24	bancroft	is it easy to integrate nodejs with fastapi? I'm planning on using node-red
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2021-05-13 08:34:31	astronavt	no idea about node-red
2021-05-13 08:34:56	astronavt	if it helps, fastapi generates an openapi schema from your pydantic classes
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2021-05-13 08:54:39	bancroft	I am a fan of that :)
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2021-05-13 09:02:36	hrobj	hi, I have an object that Im passing to numpy.arctan2 -- it emulates numpy array in most part, so behaves well on most math operation with ndarray
2021-05-13 09:02:56	zumba_addict	Good morning all. What would be the equivalent of NodeJS' Buffer.from in python? https://nodejs.org/api/buffer.html#buffer_static_method_buffer_from_array
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2021-05-13 09:03:26	hrobj	however, when I use  np.arctan2(myObj1, myObj2)  ... it looks an attribute,  AttributeError: 'compress' object has no attribute 'arctan2'
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2021-05-13 09:04:04	hrobj	this error is a little strange to me, because ndarrays do not seem to have such an attribute.
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2021-05-13 09:04:33	hrobj	I dont suppose, I could simply add this attribute or function to my "compress" class?
2021-05-13 09:05:53	Yhg1s	zumba_addict: what Python type would you want this buffer to be? What would you want to do with it?
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2021-05-13 09:06:53	zumba_addict	the code in js that I'm trying to write in python is `Buffer.from("1337", "hex")`
2021-05-13 09:07:06	Yhg1s	zumba_addict: okay, and what would you like that to produce? what do you want to then do with the buffer?
2021-05-13 09:07:27	KirkMcDonald	zumba_addict: bytes.fromhex("1337") is a thing, for example.
2021-05-13 09:07:54	KirkMcDonald	zumba_addict: Which will gives you a bytes object. I'm not clear on whether that is the thing that you want.
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2021-05-13 09:08:08	zumba_addict	oh, got it
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2021-05-13 09:08:59	zumba_addict	I'll need to understand what buffer is for first so I can understand
2021-05-13 09:09:05	zumba_addict	i'll do some reading
2021-05-13 09:09:22	zumba_addict	i thought buffer was just like a storage
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2021-05-13 09:10:23	Yhg1s	zumba_addict: the question is what you want to store. In Python there's a bunch of different ways to store things.
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2021-05-13 09:11:16	zumba_addict	gotcha. I'll do more reading first then I'll come back with a proper question
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2021-05-13 09:13:38	hrobj	zumba_addict, generally Buffer is for storing binary data in memory for example, and can help to stream read data... by passing around bufferred data you can make some things more efficient.
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2021-05-13 09:19:10	borisrunak	trying to install https://github.com/MagicStack/asyncpg on Ubuntu 20.04 on an rpi, I get https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5j9YVDtn5k/ . Any ideas please ?
2021-05-13 09:20:08	phage_33	im back with more questions! im currently competing with someone else using a script that does hourly api requests for data from a video games trading system. for whatever reason, the other person is able to get their requests 2 to 4 seconds faster than they appear for me. i cant figure out why their response time for each server is faster across
2021-05-13 09:20:09	phage_33	every server.
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2021-05-13 09:25:41	phy1729	If I have an object and a GenericAlias (say list[str]), how do I verify the object conforms to the type? isinstance of course doesn't work. Does the stdlib have something or not yet?
2021-05-13 09:25:43	p0a	Hello I have a class that initializes from a string and has a method .from_file() to initialize from file contents
2021-05-13 09:26:10	p0a	It was suggested to me that I turn from_file into a @classmethod; however both __init__ and from_file rely on a method I've called _populate(), which populates the class from the data (in the string or file)
2021-05-13 09:26:20	p0a	How should I write this then?
2021-05-13 09:26:26	Yhg1s	phy1729: the typing module isn't really meant for run-time type checking. There's nothing in the stdlib for it.
2021-05-13 09:26:33	Yhg1s	phy1729: and it's not clear it ever will
2021-05-13 09:27:03	Yhg1s	p0a: they would both call _populate().
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2021-05-13 09:27:45	p0a	Yhg1s: but is _populate a classmethod?
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2021-05-13 09:28:00	Yhg1s	p0a: it doesn't have to be. you could call it on the instance instead. It depends on what it does.
2021-05-13 09:28:09	p0a	Yhg1s: `cls' is not an instance of the class though right?
2021-05-13 09:28:25	bjs	p0a: but the classmethod would *create* an instance though?
2021-05-13 09:28:27	p0a	__init__() has self and from_file has cls?
2021-05-13 09:28:27	Yhg1s	p0a: well, 'cls' is just a parameter, but usually it's the class, not an instance of the class, yes.
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2021-05-13 09:28:33	bjs	and you'd call populate on that
2021-05-13 09:28:40	Yhg1s	p0a: yes. the classmethod would instantiate the class.
2021-05-13 09:28:53	p0a	I see, thank you
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2021-05-13 09:29:00	p0a	that means _populate needs to be a classmethod as well
2021-05-13 09:29:04	bjs	p0a: no
2021-05-13 09:29:11	p0a	Sorry, the opposite is what I meant to say
2021-05-13 09:29:20	p0a	lol
2021-05-13 09:29:50	grym	p0a: does your __init__ call _populate?
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2021-05-13 09:30:24	p0a	grym: yeah
2021-05-13 09:30:32	p0a	Do you indent @classmethod at the same level with `def' or not?
2021-05-13 09:30:38	bjs	p0a: then why does from_file need to call _populate?
2021-05-13 09:30:42	bjs	p0a: same level.
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2021-05-13 09:30:54	p0a	bjs: It does not -- it occured to me later
2021-05-13 09:30:59	bjs	p0a: ah :)
2021-05-13 09:31:00	grym	p0a: then cls(...) inside your classmethod will call _populate too
2021-05-13 09:31:08	p0a	Yup, thank you :)
2021-05-13 09:31:17	grym	(because it'll call __init__ to make your class)
2021-05-13 09:31:26	grym	class _instance_
2021-05-13 09:31:34	grym	gotta watch muh p's and q's, here
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2021-05-13 10:07:23	petaflot	hello: I would be quite happy if I could do sth like https://bpa.st/U4CQ : this code has the know issue that _kw_ is some indirection, and that it is AFAIK not possible to iterate in such a way over a dict whlie modifying it
2021-05-13 10:08:22	petaflot	(can't iterate and pop in the iteration even if popping from a known keyword)
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2021-05-13 10:11:34	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: The goal of this code is not clear to me.
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2021-05-13 10:33:11	graingert	phy1729: there's stuff like pydantic, cattrs, marshmallow, typeguard
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2021-05-13 10:36:28	phy1729	graingert: I'll take a look at thoses; thanks!
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2021-05-13 10:58:51	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: I want to empty the kwargs dict and save each {key for key in kwargs.keys()} as self.key = kwargs[key]
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2021-05-13 10:59:10	bancroft	is there a modern way to pip the output of subprocess in realtime to a file?
2021-05-13 10:59:14	bancroft	*pipe
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2021-05-13 11:00:10	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: As in, you want a set of the keys?
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2021-05-13 11:00:44	grym	bancroft: yes, subprocess functions take a stdin/stdout/stderr kwarg that accepts a file object
2021-05-13 11:00:50	petaflot	popping items from the dict helps for memory usage (or else, AFAIK, I need to save each key I've processed to a list and in a later loop pop each item from the kwargs dict so as to free the memory and prevent the keys/items to be used in a more-further loop
2021-05-13 11:00:55	grym	bancroft: https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.Popen
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2021-05-13 11:02:06	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: I would not worry about memory usage in this context. How many items are in this dict in the first place?
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2021-05-13 11:02:12	bancroft	grym: could I pass the same file to stderr/strout?
2021-05-13 11:02:16	bancroft	*stdout
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2021-05-13 11:03:02	grym	bancroft: i do not know
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2021-05-13 11:03:19	grym	bancroft: maybe? if you opened it with 'a'?   i'm really not sure
2021-05-13 11:03:58	KirkMcDonald	bancroft: You can, yes.
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2021-05-13 11:04:44	KirkMcDonald	bancroft: Same principle as using `2>&1` in a shell.
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2021-05-13 11:05:51	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: let me decompose the problem in two parts: the first being https://bpa.st/DPZQ and will result in "RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration". note _quite_ a duplicate of using iteritems() https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6777485/modifying-a-python-dict-while-iterating-over-it because AFAIK iteritems() does not let me have the key
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2021-05-13 11:07:03	KirkMcDonald	iteritems() does not exist anymore.
2021-05-13 11:07:15	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: there are a lot of items in the dict, so memory usage _is_ a problem.
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2021-05-13 11:08:00	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: well I've never used iteritems() because the key information is lost (or I misunderstood sth)
2021-05-13 11:08:08	grym	petaflot: `for key,val in mydict.items()`
2021-05-13 11:08:17	grym	gives you each pair in turn
2021-05-13 11:08:23	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: I am not sure what that means.
2021-05-13 11:08:35	Yhg1s	petaflot: dict.iteritems() in Python 2 yielded (key, value) tuples, and in Python 3 you'd just use dict.items().
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2021-05-13 11:09:19	Yhg1s	petaflot: in either case you can't modify the dict while you iterate over it. Don't modify the dict, or iterate over a copy of the keys/items.
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2021-05-13 11:09:36	KirkMcDonald	One option is something like: while d: key, value = d.popitem()
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2021-05-13 11:09:56	KirkMcDonald	Though note that this reverses the order of the dict, if that's something you care about.
2021-05-13 11:10:32	petaflot	grym: this is correct and I remember seeing it (I should get used to using it). that does not change the problem that I now face, whic is popping items from the dict without first making a copy of the keys of the dict : I understand how this can be a problem when adding elements to the dict in the loop, now how it is a problem when merely removing/popping stuff from it
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2021-05-13 11:10:52	Yhg1s	petaflot: because it resizes the dict.
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2021-05-13 11:14:01	petaflot	Yhg1s: I get this, but how come the interpreter cannot just "take the first element of the pile (index 0) if it matches some condition pop it out from the pile (keep index at zero) and let the pile `drop down so element1 takes the place of element0`, if it does not match take the second element of the pile (index1) and go on like this"
2021-05-13 11:14:20	KirkMcDonald	"Just"?
2021-05-13 11:15:36	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: This is not the way in which the dict type works.
2021-05-13 11:15:36	Yhg1s	petaflot: because _other_ operations would be much less efficient to try and cope with those kinds of changes. The thing you're trying to do is not supported because it's rare, it's easily handled differently, and it's important that the most common operations are most efficient.
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2021-05-13 11:16:29	greentree47	is python supposed to have memory problems? one of my private flask servers somehow went oom
2021-05-13 11:16:43	KirkMcDonald	greentree47: Not inherently.
2021-05-13 11:16:52	greentree47	i cant really find much about it outside of an oom message in /var/log/syslog
2021-05-13 11:16:53	Yhg1s	greentree47: you can certainly create programs that have memory problems.
2021-05-13 11:16:58	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: yeah, "just". I can pile up some coins, start from the bottom of the pile and remove them sequentially if they are - ie. 20 cents coins - while leaving the others on the pile. _nothing_ prevents me (except from keeping track of the current position of the pile - and the size of the coin I last removed (!)) from iterating over the entire pile until I reach the top of it
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2021-05-13 11:17:15	greentree47	it's not a huge flask app tbh, just a few routes to do some stuff and the application isnt like advertised to the world or anything lol
2021-05-13 11:17:27	greentree47	aside from like 5 people
2021-05-13 11:17:40	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Did you see my suggestion of several minutes ago?
2021-05-13 11:17:53	petaflot	Yhg1s: uh... for me it's one of the most common operations.
2021-05-13 11:18:33	Yhg1s	petaflot: I can guarantee you it's not. dicts are used _everywhere_. But even if it were, the dict type isn't written for your use-case :)
2021-05-13 11:18:39	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: do you mean "for key,item in dict.items(): [...]" ?
2021-05-13 11:18:42	Yhg1s	petaflot: so, either write your own type, or write different code.
2021-05-13 11:18:48	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: That was not my suggestion, no.
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2021-05-13 11:18:56	Yhg1s	petaflot: you were given like five different ways to do the basic thing.
2021-05-13 11:19:18	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: you mean "while d: key, value = d.popitem()" ? I had not seen it
2021-05-13 11:19:24	KirkMcDonald	That's the one.
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2021-05-13 11:19:51	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: But, how many keys *are* we talking about? Thousands? Millions? Billions?
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2021-05-13 11:20:17	petaflot	lemme try sth...
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2021-05-13 11:23:43	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: https://bpa.st/X5OA loops forever, obviously. unless I copy write to a new dict (which is an acceptable but IMHO unpretty solution)
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2021-05-13 11:24:01	KirkMcDonald	...?
2021-05-13 11:24:11	KirkMcDonald	*What* was your goal again?
2021-05-13 11:24:11	Yhg1s	petaflot: why are you removing the item if you're just going to add it back?
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2021-05-13 11:24:30	petaflot	Yhg1s: I want to leave it in for furthe rprocessing
2021-05-13 11:24:35	petaflot	in another loop
2021-05-13 11:24:39	Yhg1s	petaflot: okay, so don't remove it?
2021-05-13 11:24:48	Yhg1s	petaflot: can you show your *actual* code instead?
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2021-05-13 11:25:37	petaflot	how can I _not_ remove it if I need "key, value = d.popitem()" to make a test on either the key or the value?
2021-05-13 11:26:02	cranberry	Hi, sorry to interupt - is there a way to select a random key within a JSON array containing several ones? I am using pyjq like this: pyjq.first("." + category, json.load(file) and would like to only grab one of the comma seperated list of outputs
2021-05-13 11:26:06	Yhg1s	petaflot: you don't need that at all.
2021-05-13 11:26:13	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Let's not get too far down that rabbit hole. What is the problem you are trying to solve?
2021-05-13 11:26:18	Yhg1s	petaflot: you started by asking about modifying the dict during iteration. That's why KirkMcDonald suggested that alternative.
2021-05-13 11:26:31	petaflot	Yhg1s: my code would get you crazy. really. I'll be glad to make a screencast very soon, because unless you see the things it can do you might very well get much confused
2021-05-13 11:26:46	Yhg1s	petaflot: if you just want to loop over the dict, 'for k in d: v = d[k]' or 'for k, v in d.items(): ...'.
2021-05-13 11:27:03	Yhg1s	petaflot: if you can't show us what you actually want to *do*, we can't really suggest good ways of doing it.
2021-05-13 11:27:11	petaflot	I've been working on it for more than 15 years, before python3 came out (which I waited for with much impatience because of the way strings are handled)
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2021-05-13 11:28:06	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Try us.
2021-05-13 11:28:15	rendar	what about a fuzzy matching? e.g. i have a threshold, say 15%, if result is 16.5% is good too, because that's very close to 15%, best way to compute this in python?
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2021-05-13 11:28:49	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: hey.. we're trying each other out. no offense : I know there is a lot of misunderanding
2021-05-13 11:29:15	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: I mean: Don't assume we'll get confused.
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2021-05-13 11:29:29	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: Yhg1s: I am building a "thing" to store/index data in a linear non-integer vectorial space
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2021-05-13 11:30:26	petaflot	sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention, just the result of trying to explain it to people around me
2021-05-13 11:30:37	_habnabit	cranberry, is there a reason you need pyjq for this? indexing a dict isn't something you need a library for
2021-05-13 11:30:43	Stonefruit	for benchmarking purposes I'd like to keep track of the memory usage of a python script. I can do this with "/usr/bin/time -v", but I think that once I start a multiprocessing Pool object, I think time loses track of the new processes. so: how can I keep track of memory usage of a multiprocessing-enabled script?
2021-05-13 11:30:56	_habnabit	cranberry, and by 'random' do you mean 'arbitrary' or 'different every time, uniformly selected'?
2021-05-13 11:31:23	rendar	any help?
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2021-05-13 11:31:54	cranberry	hi _habnabit, I am not sure I need pyjq, it looked like an intuitive way of selecting a specific part of my JSON API
2021-05-13 11:32:41	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: I still want to know about the scale of the dictionary. What sort of order of magnitude are we talking about?
2021-05-13 11:32:41	_habnabit	cranberry, 'intuitive' isn't a word i'd ever use regarding programming, but no, indexing the dicts/lists the json module gives you is much easier in many cases
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2021-05-13 11:33:14	NoImNotNineVolt	pyjq is nice but slow.
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2021-05-13 11:33:48	KirkMcDonald	rendar: As in, you have two strings, and want to know some percentage of how similar they are to each other?
2021-05-13 11:34:33	cranberry	_habnabit: I am new to Python and being new to a language makes things that work easily and quickly look inuitive. I of course agree that does not always mean they actually are sustainably intuitive and would be grateful to be pointed in the right direction as to how else I can specify selectors to make use of the JSON API
2021-05-13 11:34:57	rendar	KirkMcDonald: nope, that's just a threshold, 15% that i have to compare with a computation.. if that computation returns =<15% then it's ok, otherwise no, problem is acceptable values are also ok with "close" values, e.g. 16% 16.5%
2021-05-13 11:35:04	_habnabit	cranberry, i mean.. it's a dict. `your_dict = json.load(..); your_dict[some_key]`
2021-05-13 11:35:08	NoImNotNineVolt	we use pyjq to allow users to define custom logic, specifically to define the conditions during which user-defined custom rules will execute. however, iterating over a sequence of jq expressions to find the one which "matches" a given input, it's slow.
2021-05-13 11:35:59	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: so far I am using dicts that are a few thousand elements long. it doesn't seem much, but with the overhead created by UI components it can get pretty slow and use a fairly large amount of RAM (I've seen my code use some 2GB of memory). It is possible that my coding style is unappropriate, but I somehow need something that "seems to work" on order to get funding to hire better-than-me
2021-05-13 11:35:59	KirkMcDonald	rendar: In other words, the threshold is really slightly larger than 15%.
2021-05-13 11:36:05	petaflot	developpers so as to scale the thing for a more general use (until then it won't be much more than a toy)
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2021-05-13 11:36:27	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: A few thousand is not very large. Kilobytes.
2021-05-13 11:36:40	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: I would not worry about making a temporary copy in this context.
2021-05-13 11:36:52	Yhg1s	Although it's still not clear you *need* a temporary copy.
2021-05-13 11:36:59	KirkMcDonald	Indeed.
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2021-05-13 11:37:12	KirkMcDonald	We still haven't heard what you're *doing* with the thing.
2021-05-13 11:37:32	petaflot	well I guess I'm much lamer at coding than I thought I was. even though I started coding in ASM. or maybe there's some overhead somewhere in the chain that I'not clear about
2021-05-13 11:38:13	InPhase	petaflot: Try changing your example to:  for key in list(d.keys()): if not d[key]: d.pop(key)
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2021-05-13 11:38:29	Yhg1s	InPhase: ... why?
2021-05-13 11:38:38	petaflot	Yhg1s: it would not be a temporary copy. it would be like another pile in "Hanoi Towers". so mayybe I'm trying to solve the hanoi towers in a single pile
2021-05-13 11:38:49	InPhase	Yhg1s: Because finite runtimes beat infinite runtimes?
2021-05-13 11:39:03	Yhg1s	InPhase: they already said they didn't actually want to delete items from the dict.
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2021-05-13 11:39:12	petaflot	which is - kinda obviously - impossible
2021-05-13 11:39:19	Stonefruit	rendar: I think I joined a bit late, but then why not just make a hard cutoff at 16.5%?
2021-05-13 11:39:24	InPhase	I did not see that part.  Then it was not a good example.
2021-05-13 11:39:47	rendar	Stonefruit: maybe you're right
2021-05-13 11:39:48	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: It is very difficult to make cogent suggestions without some actual information about the problem being solved.
2021-05-13 11:39:51	Yhg1s	petaflot: the alernatives suggested to allow mutation of a dict you're iterating over include creating a temporary copy. I'm saying it's not clear you actually need to mutate the dict you're iteratin gover.
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2021-05-13 11:41:01	Stonefruit	rendar: I guess you could be fuzzy about it and accept it with some probability which vanishes past the boundary, e.g. exp(-(percent-15)/k) (though not quite because you probably want it to hit 0 at some point)
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2021-05-13 11:42:01	bancroft	KirkMcDonald grym thanks :)
2021-05-13 11:42:12	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: so far my UI code uses kivy and is some 600 lines long. but unless you understand _what_ I'm trying to solve you won't get far by just reading it : it's like talking about the algorithm of solving a 24-faced rubik's cube without having ever seen one before
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2021-05-13 11:43:05	petaflot	Yhg1s: I guess popping the data out of my dict and popping it into another - altough temporary dict - is the best solution so far
2021-05-13 11:43:27	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Why even pop it out of the first dict?
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2021-05-13 11:44:02	InPhase	petaflot: It doesn't need to be a description of the entire program, but you should skim over this.  You are in an xy regime I think:  https://xyproblem.info/
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2021-05-13 11:45:41	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Also I have worked with vector spaces before. I'm undaunted.
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2021-05-13 11:46:15	petaflot	InPhase: lol, not the first time someone sends me this link. My problem is _semantic_ ; afaik the (non-integer/fractal) space I'm adressing is wider than the scope of all human languages put together. as far as I'm concerned, I've only seen a tiny _part_ of if and I am not sure I will ever see the whole picture
2021-05-13 11:46:39	grym	petaflot: it's pretty easy to make a honkin' big vector space
2021-05-13 11:46:46	grym	efficiently navigating it is the fun bit
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2021-05-13 11:47:28	petaflot	remember we're talking about linear algebra in not 2-D, not 3-D, not 4-D, but sth like pi-D
2021-05-13 11:47:33	grym	yeah; so what
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2021-05-13 11:48:15	cranberry	_habnabit: Thank you for the input, I attempted constructing it using your method, however think I'm either using it wrong or it is not liking (?) the data I feed in: " TypeError: newf() takes 4 positional arguments but 5 were given"
2021-05-13 11:48:18	grym	it does make the ol' GPU plotz a bit, though :)
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2021-05-13 11:48:27	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: My concern is that I'm perceiving a contradiction here between the difficulty you're ascribing to the problem and the difficulty you're apparently experiencing with trivial dictionary operations.
2021-05-13 11:48:31	petaflot	well I've gotten enough clues to keep on working at least 30 minutes ago
2021-05-13 11:48:36	_habnabit	cranberry, pastebin your code and full traceback
2021-05-13 11:48:42	cranberry	ok
2021-05-13 11:48:53	petaflot	now I'm just answering your questions
2021-05-13 11:49:30	KirkMcDonald	petaflot: Your question was how to write some code, and we still haven't seen the danged code.
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2021-05-13 11:51:11	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: there are _dozens_ of occurences of the code.
2021-05-13 11:51:51	_habnabit	("localized entirely on your computer? can we see any of them?" "no")
2021-05-13 11:52:57	ses1984	i'm trying to read from a zipfile that contains a few files, zipfile provides a read method that returns bytes, i know this is a text file, is there a way to read over this data line by line without getting it all into memory at once?
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2021-05-13 11:53:23	petaflot	anyway I will keep on working. and you can be sure you will hear/read more about this later on: it might involve a specific "grammar" with runes or hangul (which I don't know about but simply like because it involves 24 distinct common symbols)
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2021-05-13 11:55:07	fb_	hey, can anyone advice on pytest. having a module named main.py that accepts args. The idea is to write a simple test to be run via pytest. The assertion to be made against the exec result of the main, 0 or 1. How to implement this ?
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2021-05-13 11:55:33	_habnabit	fb_, is there a reason your main.py doesn't define a function you could call instead?
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2021-05-13 11:55:39	_habnabit	fb_, that makes testing much easier
2021-05-13 11:55:45	petaflot	KirkMcDonald: I realize I missed your message about the rabbit hole : in more than one way I feel like I'm trying to get _out_ of that hole <3
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2021-05-13 11:56:12	leitz	if full_list and excluded are lists of strings, and I iterate with "for item in full_list:", i is set to a generator object. How do I get the string?
2021-05-13 11:56:15	leitz	https://gist.github.com/LeamHall/118393cf980a75382ceeca1d3a36dcb4
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2021-05-13 11:56:27	rendar	is this invalid syntax?! https://bpa.st/LVEQ
2021-05-13 11:56:43	_habnabit	leitz, 'the' string? what string?
2021-05-13 11:56:53	KirkMcDonald	rendar: Looks valid.
2021-05-13 11:57:01	grym	leitz: the string is `item`
2021-05-13 11:57:09	grym	leitz: in the scope of that for loop
2021-05-13 11:57:24	rendar	KirkMcDonald: but: https://bpa.st/VR4Q
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2021-05-13 11:57:28	KirkMcDonald	rendar: Though I'd probably use 'def' rather than 'lambda', since you're just assigning it to a name anyway.
2021-05-13 11:57:34	_habnabit	rendar, you forgot a ,
2021-05-13 11:57:52	KirkMcDonald	Ah yes, a comma.
2021-05-13 11:57:53	fb_	_habnabit, this can be achieved by placing a code into some method main() in main.py for instance, but still don't know how to write a test that accepts *args in a way that simulates exec from the terminal, "$main argA 1" and how to assert against the exec result
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2021-05-13 11:58:23	leitz	_habnabit, I'm trying to get the strings from full_list that don't start with any of the strings in excludes.
2021-05-13 11:58:31	_habnabit	leitz, and do what with them?
2021-05-13 11:58:45	_habnabit	fb_, it's common to do something like `def main(argv=None): if argv is None: argv = sys.argv`
2021-05-13 11:58:49	rendar	_habnabit: oh right, thanks
2021-05-13 11:59:01	rendar	KirkMcDonald: yep, maybe def is better here thanks
2021-05-13 11:59:01	_habnabit	fb_, then you can call it whatever
2021-05-13 11:59:09	adder	i just watched some video, are python dicts implemented as arrays containing linked lists which in turn contain values?
2021-05-13 11:59:16	leitz	_habnabit, right now, just get the string. That's all I'm focussing on.
2021-05-13 11:59:18	_habnabit	adder, no
2021-05-13 11:59:23	KirkMcDonald	adder: Nope.
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2021-05-13 11:59:35	_habnabit	leitz, what does it mean to 'get' it?
2021-05-13 11:59:58	grym	adder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npw4s1QTmPg
2021-05-13 12:00:06	grym	adder: found that one?
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2021-05-13 12:00:38	adder	grym, oh nice. i'll look. no, i was just watching a video on some interview prep site
2021-05-13 12:00:57	KirkMcDonald	adder: That is a common technique for hash tables, but it's not what Python's dict type uses.
2021-05-13 12:01:12	adder	KirkMcDonald, i see, thanks
2021-05-13 12:01:27	InPhase	leitz: [s for s in full_list if s[0] not in excludes]
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2021-05-13 12:01:47	rendar	KirkMcDonald: dict doesn't use hash tables?!
2021-05-13 12:01:58	Yhg1s	rendar: it doesn't use *that kind* of hash table.
2021-05-13 12:02:03	rendar	oh ok
2021-05-13 12:02:24	Yhg1s	(Python's dicts are open addressing hash tables with a prime probe, mapping to integers in an array of values.)
2021-05-13 12:02:34	Yhg1s	eh, mapping to indices in an array of values, rather.
2021-05-13 12:02:51	leitz	InPhase, thanks. I'll have to work with startswith, since excludes can be longer strings.
2021-05-13 12:03:11	KirkMcDonald	"Prime probe" basically meaning "linear probe with a twist."
2021-05-13 12:03:31	rendar	python should use abseil hash tables, which use SSE* intructions to improve speed by A LOT, and they're very scalable
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2021-05-13 12:03:45	Yhg1s	rendar: why do you think it would improve them?
2021-05-13 12:03:52	KirkMcDonald	rendar: Consider the Python object model.
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2021-05-13 12:04:20	rendar	Yhg1s: that technique is a lot faster in retrieve keys, and with SSE it can check 16/32/64 keys at operation
2021-05-13 12:04:45	KirkMcDonald	rendar: What is a key?
2021-05-13 12:04:47	InPhase	leitz: Sure.
2021-05-13 12:04:59	rendar	KirkMcDonald: huh? the dict's key..
2021-05-13 12:05:05	KirkMcDonald	rendar: But specifically.
2021-05-13 12:05:05	Yhg1s	rendar: I understand it is faster for specific operations on specific data types. Why do you think they would make *Python dicts* faster?
2021-05-13 12:05:34	rendar	Yhg1s: because it's a faster hash table for GENERAL strings keys, the exact data python dict uses
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2021-05-13 12:05:44	Yhg1s	rendar: Python dicts do not use string keys.
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2021-05-13 12:06:09	kindlehl	python is a good programming language
2021-05-13 12:06:14	rendar	well, mostly yes! when they are not strings, they are pointers, where it excels too
2021-05-13 12:06:21	Yhg1s	rendar: they're not pointers.
2021-05-13 12:06:30	rendar	Yhg1s: what they are, then?
2021-05-13 12:06:32	Yhg1s	rendar: they're *Python objects*. Different objects can compare and hash equal. you can't just pretend they're pointers.
2021-05-13 12:06:41	fb_	_habnabit, I use argparse, is it possible to pass sys.args to argparse in the method ?
2021-05-13 12:06:42	InPhase	leitz: You can nest:  [s for s in full_list if not any(s.startswith(e) for e in excludes)]
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2021-05-13 12:07:03	rendar	Yhg1s: ok but in the end, the pyhton C runtime will calculate an hash into some bytes of data, and here we go
2021-05-13 12:07:15	Yhg1s	rendar: it may well be that abseil hashes can make Python dicts faster. I doubt it (someone would've tried it at work, where abseil hashes originated ;) but it's possible. You can't tell without trying, though.
2021-05-13 12:07:15	rendar	Yhg1s: you can check yourself what i'm saying is true or false, btw
2021-05-13 12:07:16	_habnabit	fb_, consider using https://click.palletsprojects.com/en/8.0.x/ instead if you can, but sure; argparse's parse_args method takes argv as an argument
2021-05-13 12:07:39	grym	leitz: there's also probably a tidy way to express this with set operations, if list order isn't important
2021-05-13 12:07:39	Yhg1s	rendar: there is a _lot_ more involved than just calculating the offset of a value in an array.
2021-05-13 12:07:39	leitz	InPhase, nice! I'll give that a test.
2021-05-13 12:08:18	leitz	grym, I'm trying for a set, but I don't have the skills yet. Order is irrelevant.
2021-05-13 12:08:20	supakeen	Besides you can't just go "SSE SO FAST" when Python dicts already have a lot of optimization including cache line sizes.
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2021-05-13 12:08:25	leitz	grym, thanks!
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2021-05-13 12:08:36	Yhg1s	rendar: if you want to learn about the dict implementation, performance considerations and boundary conditions, there's https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Objects/dictnotes.txt
2021-05-13 12:08:41	rendar	Yhg1s: i'm speaking of the lowest level result: even if you have PyObject's structure, the hash table is not even involved with them.. the hash table only get a key (char*,size) and an hash function..
2021-05-13 12:08:51	rendar	Yhg1s: ok, thanks, i'll read that
2021-05-13 12:08:52	Yhg1s	rendar: again, there is not char*.
2021-05-13 12:09:22	rendar	Yhg1s: so you're saying that python uses a special purpose hash table, which does low level operations on the entire data structure?
2021-05-13 12:09:33	supakeen	rendar: I think you should read dict.c instead of being really adamant about how it works and being very wrong.
2021-05-13 12:09:43	rendar	ok
2021-05-13 12:09:47	Yhg1s	rendar: not even that! It asks objects for their hash value, and asks them to compare to each other.
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2021-05-13 12:09:56	Yhg1s	rendar: so it's _higher_ level, not lower level.
2021-05-13 12:10:02	supakeen	* dictobject.c :)
2021-05-13 12:10:40	rendar	Yhg1s: uhm, that the hash table asks the PyObject hash value, is ok, but.. asks them to compare to each other?! i can't get this, what you  mean exactly?!
2021-05-13 12:10:55	bjs	rendar: if they collide
2021-05-13 12:11:01	Yhg1s	or if they don't collide.
2021-05-13 12:11:11	kindlehl	can't you all just be happy to have python? Its so glorious, why squabble over meaningless things
2021-05-13 12:11:15	Yhg1s	rendar: two keys are only the same if they compare equal. So they have to be compared.
2021-05-13 12:11:29	rendar	but..that's what a normal hash tables does..
2021-05-13 12:11:31	Yhg1s	kindlehl: what makes you think we're not happy with it? :)
2021-05-13 12:11:59	kindlehl	because you are doing that thing where you can't just let someone be wrong
2021-05-13 12:12:01	supakeen	rendar: In this case the 'keys' themselves can decide how they compare to eachother.
2021-05-13 12:12:11	Yhg1s	rendar: only for data types it knows about. How would the abseil hash table know how to compare Python objects?
2021-05-13 12:12:18	grym	kindlehl: it's called "relaxing on IRC" :)
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2021-05-13 12:12:27	rendar	i see
2021-05-13 12:12:31	kindlehl	you're trying to position yourself as better, like crabs in a bucket. Just relax and pound back some beers bro
2021-05-13 12:12:37	_habnabit	rendar, do you know about __eq__?
2021-05-13 12:12:41	Yhg1s	kindlehl: we're answering questions someone asked. That's what #python is for.
2021-05-13 12:12:43	bjs	kindlehl: you're free to talk about Python if you want
2021-05-13 12:12:44	rendar	Yhg1s: you can give your own compare function, btw
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2021-05-13 12:12:46	rendar	_habnabit: yes
2021-05-13 12:12:47	nedbat	kindlehl: what conversation are you talking about?
2021-05-13 12:12:50	kindlehl	python is for fraternizing
2021-05-13 12:12:56	Yhg1s	kindlehl: not #python, no.
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2021-05-13 12:13:04	kindlehl	drink motherfucker drink motherfucker drink motherfucker drink!
2021-05-13 12:13:08	bjs	kindlehl: stop
2021-05-13 12:13:29	Yhg1s	rendar: no, really, I'm quite aware of absl. It's a work product.
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2021-05-13 12:14:13	rendar	Yhg1s: huh? man.. with absl you can easily specify an hash function, and a compare function, like you can do easily in almost all C++ hash tables
2021-05-13 12:14:23	rendar	in mine too
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2021-05-13 12:14:49	Yhg1s	rendar: I don't know why you tihnk I don't know this. It's not about whether you *can* use absl's hash tables. It's about whether *it's faster*.
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2021-05-13 12:15:01	rendar	yes
2021-05-13 12:15:10	Yhg1s	rendar: the optimisations in absl hashes won't work for Python objects.
2021-05-13 12:15:15	rendar	ok
2021-05-13 12:15:32	supakeen	I have a sneaking suspicion with all the incorrectness you just told us that you have no idea or that you're basing that opinion on how you think things work, not how they're actually implemented.
2021-05-13 12:16:12	rdimeo	Hi! I'm trying to create a package + subpackage using ModuleType, but I'm unable to get it to work with Python 3.4 (works in 3.7) https://www.pastery.net/xzpkew/ could anybody help?
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2021-05-13 12:16:29	_habnabit	rdimeo, 3.4 is.. quite old. do you really need to support it?
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2021-05-13 12:16:35	Yhg1s	rdimeo: by far the simplest thing is "don't do it". Why do you want to create actual ModuleTypes?
2021-05-13 12:16:45	rdimeo	I hoped to be able to support as old as 3.2 to be honest... :(
2021-05-13 12:16:58	nanonyme	rdimeo, everything beyond 3.5 is EOL
2021-05-13 12:17:00	_habnabit	rdimeo, 3.2 is before python 3 was usable. nobody uses it
2021-05-13 12:17:00	Yhg1s	rdimeo: just create a class that behaves like a module (however you want it to behave) and inject it into sys.modules.
2021-05-13 12:17:07	Yhg1s	rdimeo: that said, for packages, you need to set the __path__ attribute.
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2021-05-13 12:17:33	Yhg1s	rdimeo: oh, and in this case, set base_module.submodule to submodule.
2021-05-13 12:17:42	tos9	there's a thing in importlib to do this IIRC?
2021-05-13 12:17:48	tos9	but yeah hopefully the real answer is "don't do it"
2021-05-13 12:18:30	tos9	importlib.util.module_from_spec is I think the one I was recalling (though whether it's relevant depends on how you're getting your fake module)
2021-05-13 12:18:34	rdimeo	Yhg1s: I have that already, I have the actual module, the problem is that 3.4 cannot find it (or this is what I undertand from my problem. I'm not sure)
2021-05-13 12:19:09	_habnabit	rdimeo, do you have users on 3.4 or 3.2, or are you just trying to make the number as low as possible?
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2021-05-13 12:19:20	rdimeo	Yhg1s: sys.modules has already the base module and the submodule, but when I try "from base import submodule" I get a ImportError: cannot import name "submodule"
2021-05-13 12:19:32	rdimeo	_habnabit: the second you said...
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2021-05-13 12:19:55	Yhg1s	rdimeo: I'm not sure what 'that' you mean. Do you have base_module.submodule assigned? You don't in your example.
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2021-05-13 12:20:02	rdimeo	I'm trying to keep the requirements as broad as I can. I was aiming at 3.2 (the first Python version with a sane ABI) but alas, I have problems on linux
2021-05-13 12:20:07	nanonyme	rdimeo, that's pointless. Don't intentionally make your life harder by supporting EOL versions
2021-05-13 12:20:15	Yhg1s	rdimeo: there really is no point what so ever in supporting 3.2.
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2021-05-13 12:20:18	_habnabit	rdimeo, i promise you: _nobody_ uses 3.2
2021-05-13 12:20:26	Yhg1s	rdimeo: there's extremely little point in supporting anything before 3.6, really.
2021-05-13 12:20:29	_habnabit	not even 'nobody who matters'. nobody.
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2021-05-13 12:20:30	rdimeo	Yhg1s: my bad, I misunderstood your suggestion, sorry
2021-05-13 12:21:07	rdimeo	_habnabit, Yhg1s that's reassuring, thank you. I'll probably fix the problem *and* raise the requirements
2021-05-13 12:21:13	Yhg1s	rdimeo: its' a different matter if you have existing code that already supports it, but for new packages, don't bother with anything before 3.6.
2021-05-13 12:21:29	KirkMcDonald	3.2 was still in the era of needing to convince people to move to Python 3. Things were still settling down. And it's way EOLed in any case.
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2021-05-13 12:21:41	Yhg1s	And severely limited in its compatibility.
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2021-05-13 12:22:02	rdimeo	I would honestly aim at 3.4. If not else not to raise the requirements too much since the last version of my feature
2021-05-13 12:22:15	rdimeo	even though I *do understand* you are right
2021-05-13 12:22:27	grym	rdimeo: how big is your user base
2021-05-13 12:22:33	rdimeo	an "image thing", I would say
2021-05-13 12:22:47	ELFrederich	There's got to be a better way to get the full string out of a re.match object.  For instance, if I search "data" using re module and get a match object... data[slice(*match.span())] ... is there a better way to get the entire string of the match?
2021-05-13 12:22:49	rdimeo	not sure, few people. Clients, though so...
2021-05-13 12:22:58	_habnabit	ELFrederich, match.group(0)
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2021-05-13 12:23:14	grym	rdimeo: what is tying them to ancient versions?
2021-05-13 12:23:20	grym	that's not a snarky question; there are legit reasons for it
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2021-05-13 12:23:49	rdimeo	grym: no, no: don't worry, I'm not on a defensive stance, it's just that I don't have prompt feedback from our clients
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2021-05-13 12:23:58	ELFrederich	_habnabit, thanks.  I was using findall and was given tuples, so I switched to finditer to got match objects.
2021-05-13 12:24:00	rdimeo	I don't really think people are actually using 3.2 though
2021-05-13 12:24:20	rdimeo	even my boss actually suggested we should drop the support, so I guess it's just me being stubborn
2021-05-13 12:24:24	grym	rdimeo: before you go around torturing yourself supporting ancient history, then, i would do the business work of finding out if you have to
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2021-05-13 12:24:44	nanonyme	rdimeo, if your boss tells you that you should drop support for something, have a party
2021-05-13 12:24:50	rdimeo	grym: amen to that. I think you are right. I guess it's a "old crazy hacker thing"
2021-05-13 12:24:57	rdimeo	nanonyme: LOL
2021-05-13 12:24:59	nanonyme	rdimeo, most of the time bosses will tell you that you have a business reason not to drop support
2021-05-13 12:25:03	grym	rdimeo: yeah.  pesky humans!
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2021-05-13 12:25:25	rdimeo	grym: you have no idea the patience it takes to be me, sometimes... xD
2021-05-13 12:25:45	LuxuryMode	I never can seem to get the syntax correct. How can I flatten this into a list of the messages? `[[ValidationError(['Email cannot be empty for a non-minor Household Member.']), ValidationError(['Email cannot be empty for a Primary Contact.'])], [ValidationError(['Phone Number cannot be empty for a Primary Contact.'])]]`
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2021-05-13 12:26:06	rdimeo	I'll put my pride aside and aim at 3.4, but still I wanted to knew why my code wasn't working (this is pretty legitimate)
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2021-05-13 12:26:14	nanonyme	rdimeo, it is absolutely wrong to support more things than your company wants to
2021-05-13 12:26:17	leitz	inPhase, this is what I have so far. i = [item for item in full_list if not any(item.startswith(e) for e in excludes)][0]
2021-05-13 12:26:18	rdimeo	I'll try Yhg1s suggestion first and be back :)
2021-05-13 12:26:40	nanonyme	rdimeo, especially since as said, 3.4 is *EOL* and majority of Python ecosystem has dropped support
2021-05-13 12:26:44	grym	LuxuryMode: list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(thatlist)) is one way
2021-05-13 12:26:50	rdimeo	nanonyme: it's my twisted idea of "caring" I guess... also we have some clients that proved to be "nitpicky"
2021-05-13 12:26:50	grym	LuxuryMode: i can never remember the nested listcomp
2021-05-13 12:26:58	LuxuryMode	haha yeah exactly
2021-05-13 12:27:22	leitz	I realize [] makes a list, but I'm trying to just return a string. Still working on it.
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2021-05-13 12:27:33	rdimeo	nanonyme: so in a (dumb) way, I was probably trying to anticipate some problems. Waste of effort I would think.
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2021-05-13 12:28:08	LuxuryMode	I'll give itertools a shot, thanks grym
2021-05-13 12:28:10	_habnabit	leitz, so, what, you want the first match?
2021-05-13 12:28:19	grym	LuxuryMode: it'll rip strings apart, so do be careful
2021-05-13 12:28:24	_habnabit	leitz, how do you want to reduce a list of strings into one string?
2021-05-13 12:28:46	LuxuryMode	As in split the strings themselves into an array?
2021-05-13 12:28:52	LuxuryMode	grym:
2021-05-13 12:28:56	LuxuryMode	?
2021-05-13 12:29:02	grym	LuxuryMode: yeah, `[['foo'],[2],'bar']` goes to `['foo', 2, 'b', 'a', 'r']`
2021-05-13 12:29:04	nanonyme	rdimeo, keep in mind 3.5 is already end-of-life and its users are having issues using pip. 3.6 will be next, starting from next Winter
2021-05-13 12:29:13	grym	LuxuryMode: which bites everyone every year or so at least
2021-05-13 12:29:23	LuxuryMode	got it, yeah in my case I will only [['foo'], ['bar']]
2021-05-13 12:29:26	LuxuryMode	thank you
2021-05-13 12:29:28	rdimeo	nanonyme: good to know, I admit I didn't knew that
2021-05-13 12:29:28	grym	nanonyme: september.
2021-05-13 12:29:28	InPhase	leitz: That is only valid if:  1, there is always at least one match.  2, you never care about matches beyond the first one.
2021-05-13 12:29:52	nanonyme	grym, the source I was reading claimed December. But okay
2021-05-13 12:29:58	rdimeo	Yhg1s: adding "base_module.submodule = submodule" fixed the problem, thank you! I still don't know why it was working with 3.7, though...
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2021-05-13 12:30:22	leitz	InPhase, _habnabit, the original had a loop that was just one item at a time. Working on it now, and getting rid of the outer loop.
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2021-05-13 12:30:28	grym	nanonyme: well i'll be; they updated it or i'm an idiot; https://devguide.python.org/#status-of-python-branches
2021-05-13 12:30:39	grym	nanonyme: anyway, yes, christmas eve eve
2021-05-13 12:30:50	_habnabit	leitz, this is why i kept asking you what it means to 'get' a string. i don't know what operation you're thinking of
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2021-05-13 12:32:22	leitz	Got it. _habnabit, sorry for not understanding the request. The goal was to remove anything from full_list if it started with anything in excludes.
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2021-05-13 12:33:05	_habnabit	leitz, full_list = [x for x in full_list if not sw(..)]
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2021-05-13 12:33:07	_habnabit	leitz, done
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2021-05-13 12:33:29	leitz	_habnabit, nice. I'm just learning generators.
2021-05-13 12:33:39	_habnabit	leitz, that's a list comprehension
2021-05-13 12:33:51	leitz	Just learning those, too.  ;)
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2021-05-13 12:34:48	rdimeo	Yhg1s, nanonyme, grym _habnabit you have been all very kind: thank you for your help! Have a good evening (or whatever time it is there)! :)
2021-05-13 12:35:07	grym	cheers!
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2021-05-13 12:36:30	grym	(it's lunchtime is what time it is!)
2021-05-13 12:37:23	nanonyme	Hammer time?
2021-05-13 12:38:15	ELFrederich	trying to find where it's documented that iterating over a file object gives you lines.  https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html#term-file-object says the interface is defined in https://docs.python.org/3/library/io.html#module-io
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2021-05-13 12:38:51	grym	iirc file object docs are shotgunned over the document in an unfortunate way
2021-05-13 12:39:03	ELFrederich	I saw __iter__ mentioned only once in there as a Mixin Method for IOBase, but nothing defining what it does or that it splits on newlines
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2021-05-13 12:40:09	ELFrederich	ah... think I found it.  https://docs.python.org/3/library/io.html#io.IOBase
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2021-05-13 12:50:42	Abbott	I am trying to convert a python program distributed with ostree/flatpak to a package that is installable with just python using venv. the flatpak ships a python3.7/site-packages directory that has some modules that are already available on pip (e.g. requests, certifi, idna, PyQt5, etc) but then it has some dirs that are specifically for this program (e.g. launcher, gui, patcher). Would the best way
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2021-05-13 12:50:44	Abbott	to wrap these up be to make eggs for them?
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2021-05-13 12:51:49	_habnabit	Abbott, no. wheels are the usual distribution method for python binaries
2021-05-13 12:51:53	_habnabit	Abbott, eggs haven't been in use for years
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2021-05-13 12:53:51	grym	Abbott: wheels
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2021-05-13 12:55:29	ksynwa	Can anyone a good book on Python? Would like something that has information about relatively newer stuff like asyncio.
2021-05-13 12:55:37	ksynwa	Can anyone recommend*
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2021-05-13 12:59:46	astronavt	ksynwa: i'm not sure about a comprehensive single book, but realpython has a lot of good information on "modern" python dev
2021-05-13 12:59:55	Peyam	why no one speaks of Python cookbook?
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2021-05-13 13:00:06	astronavt	i'm not aware of it
2021-05-13 13:00:10	Peyam	That book is awesome.
2021-05-13 13:00:11	ksynwa	I was actually reading realpython right now and really liked it astronavt
2021-05-13 13:00:27	Peyam	ksynwa, are you a beginner?
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2021-05-13 13:00:34	ksynwa	The write up was very high quality not even considering it's free
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2021-05-13 13:00:43	ksynwa	Peyam: I'd say intermediate
2021-05-13 13:01:00	Peyam	I recommend you python cookbook.
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2021-05-13 13:01:23	Peyam	ksynwa, Python Cookbook: Recipes for Mastering Python 3
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2021-05-13 13:01:36	ksynwa	Thanks. Will give it a look. Peyam
2021-05-13 13:01:57	KirkMcDonald	Hmm. The official tutorial doesn't seem to have anything to say about async features. That seems like a shortcoming.
2021-05-13 13:01:57	Peyam	ksynwa, I really enjoyed reading it. simple to undrestand with lots of examples.
2021-05-13 13:02:21	Peyam	KirkMcDonald, agree
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2021-05-13 13:06:03	julius__	hi
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2021-05-13 13:07:08	julius__	if you watch a directory for changes, how do you make sure that a file that is transfered in that directory is "complete"?  for example: code sees new file with size x, code checks 10 seconds later size is the same, file completely transfered?
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2021-05-13 13:08:26	mike18	hi how can i make this code faster - it uses pandas - is there a way to avoid recreating the dataframe? https://ideone.com/FRsqBQ
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2021-05-13 13:09:58	karlpinc	julius__: The best way would be to have a data format in the file that you can use to confirm that the file is "whole".
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2021-05-13 13:10:35	julius__	karlpinc, true, but cant change the format
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2021-05-13 13:11:17	karlpinc	julius__: Then make some OS call or another to see that nobody else has the file open.  (Of course this would require permission to do so.)
2021-05-13 13:11:35	karlpinc	julius__: Assuming that the file is only written to once.
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2021-05-13 13:12:34	KirkMcDonald	julius__: Can you perform the transfer in such a way that it is atomic? I.e. write to a *different* file, and then rename it when the transfer is complete?
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2021-05-13 13:12:58	astronavt	iirc you can pay for courses on realpython too? its a great resource
2021-05-13 13:13:44	julius__	KirkMcDonald, i have to check with the receiving software, good idea
2021-05-13 13:14:01	julius__	karlpinc, yes the file is transfered only once and then maybe the next day
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2021-05-13 13:15:36	irseeyou	Anyone mind helping me out here? what am I doing wrong? https://bpa.st/DOAQ (3 lines)
2021-05-13 13:15:52	astronavt	mike18: it looks like `round_cols` doesn't do anything, and `lambda p: str(p) + "%"` can be rewritten as `"{!s}%".format`, or better yet `"{:0.0f}%".format` or something like that
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2021-05-13 13:16:20	astronavt	this code also does not recreate the dataframe, it overwrites columns in it
2021-05-13 13:16:36	astronavt	which i think is a pretty bad idea, overwriting numerical columns with strings..
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2021-05-13 13:17:28	NeilG	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0647/ looks like it's accepted
2021-05-13 13:18:15	astronavt	mike18, just write this: alloc_df = df[["performance_share"]].applymap(lambda p: format(p * 100, "0.0f"))
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2021-05-13 13:18:28	mike18	and return allo_df?
2021-05-13 13:18:30	mike18	alloc
2021-05-13 13:18:31	astronavt	NeilG: i'm really excited for this new generation of "structurally typed functional python"
2021-05-13 13:18:41	NeilG	astronavt: me too
2021-05-13 13:18:44	julius__	thx for the input guys
2021-05-13 13:18:46	astronavt	mike18: it's not clear from your code what `alloc_df` is for
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2021-05-13 13:19:25	cfoch	Hello, how can I get this `re.search('(.*)-(\d+\.\d+\.\d+)(\-.*)?', "FOO-0.0.0-BAR").groups()` to return ('FOO', '0.0.0', 'BAR')
2021-05-13 13:19:27	cfoch	?
2021-05-13 13:19:44	astronavt	cfoch: use https://regex101.com :)
2021-05-13 13:20:10	julius__	cfoch, try (.*?)  for the first paranthese
2021-05-13 13:20:11	astronavt	you can use .split('-') on the matched result
2021-05-13 13:20:40	julius__	righ, split is even better
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2021-05-13 13:20:56	KirkMcDonald	cfoch: Move that second hyphen to outside of the group.
2021-05-13 13:21:29	cfoch	because it can be "FOO-MAM-DUH_0.0.0-BAR-WHATEVER"
2021-05-13 13:21:52	cfoch	_
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2021-05-13 13:22:00	KirkMcDonald	cfoch: Well that underscore means that won't match that regex at all.
2021-05-13 13:22:12	mike18	astronavt: it for ExcelWriter: https://ideone.com/
2021-05-13 13:22:41	mike18	https://ideone.com/e0NhRp
2021-05-13 13:22:43	sartan	split is better; greedy regexes are less better. re.search(r'(?P<foo>\S+)-(?P<zeroes>\S+)-(?P<bar>\S+)', 'FOO-0.0.0-BAR').groupdict()
2021-05-13 13:22:56	sartan	I personally prefer groupdict and naming capture groups for better debuggability down the line, but..
2021-05-13 13:23:10	astronavt	don't forget verbose mode regex (?x)
2021-05-13 13:23:21	cfoch	sorry
2021-05-13 13:23:27	cfoch	 "FOO-MAM_DUH-0.0.0-BAR-WHATEVER"
2021-05-13 13:23:54	astronavt	mike18: pd.concat the alloc_df with your original
2021-05-13 13:24:10	mike18	can you show? not sure what you mean
2021-05-13 13:24:13	KirkMcDonald	cfoch: And the trailing part after the dotted numbers is optional?
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2021-05-13 13:24:24	astronavt	or copy the df and then overwrite the columns, just do you don't screw up a dataframe that someone else might want to use
2021-05-13 13:24:32	astronavt	(someone meaning you, later in the code)
2021-05-13 13:24:38	KirkMcDonald	cfoch: Which I ask because of the final question mark in your original regex.
2021-05-13 13:24:49	mike18	astronavt: i currently use: https://ideone.com/Cf21wr
2021-05-13 13:25:09	astronavt	you only want to write that one column?
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2021-05-13 13:25:20	mike18	yeah
2021-05-13 13:25:22	mike18	for excelwrite
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2021-05-13 13:25:42	astronavt	what's with the BytesIO? you are trying to create an excel file without saving it to disk? interesting
2021-05-13 13:25:58	mike18	it will be saved to s3
2021-05-13 13:26:02	mike18	using my s3 func
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2021-05-13 13:26:10	astronavt	makes sense
2021-05-13 13:26:22	mike18	is there a better way to add this col?
2021-05-13 13:26:32	mike18	i think it copies the entire df now?
2021-05-13 13:26:43	gswallow	you may want to write that excel file to a temporary file in case you have to retry your S3 operation.
2021-05-13 13:26:44	astronavt	no it does not copy the entire df. but you don't need to modify the df at all if you're just using one column
2021-05-13 13:27:27	mike18	how does temp file help - can have it in memory too for retry?
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2021-05-13 13:27:35	astronavt	or do you want to write the entire df, but replacing this column with the percent version?
2021-05-13 13:27:44	gswallow	uncaught errors?
2021-05-13 13:28:01	blackleitus	is socketserver old?
2021-05-13 13:28:05	mike18	no i just want to take the dataframe and append the col
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2021-05-13 13:28:39	mike18	astronavt: like that? https://ideone.com/Cf21wr
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2021-05-13 13:30:31	cfoch	sartan, yes, but the last suffix is optional
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2021-05-13 13:31:03	mike18	do you know what exceptions pandas has?
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2021-05-13 13:32:02	cfoch	KirkMcDonald, " Move that second hyphen to outside of the group." The thing is the last suffix "-FOO" is optional
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2021-05-13 13:32:12	cfoch	"-BAR" sorry
2021-05-13 13:32:16	cfoch	it's optional
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2021-05-13 13:33:14	astronavt	mike18: fyi you can write directly to an s3 url https://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/reference/api/pandas.ExcelWriter.html
2021-05-13 13:33:27	mike18	yeah saw that
2021-05-13 13:33:37	mike18	but i would like to use my s3 layer i build
2021-05-13 13:34:37	sartan	cfoch: you can just put a ? after the ()
2021-05-13 13:34:39	sartan	to make it optional
2021-05-13 13:34:52	sartan	is the `-` before it also optional?
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2021-05-13 13:35:31	sartan	re.search(r'(?P<foo>\S+)-(?P<zeroes>\S+)(?:-)?(?P<bar>\S+)?', 'FOO-0.0.0-BAR').groupdict() this ought to do it
2021-05-13 13:35:52	sartan	Although str.split('-')[2:] might be a lot easier and performant
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2021-05-13 13:36:15	sartan	really depends on what you want the return data type to look like and what you're interested in
2021-05-13 13:36:55	astronavt	mike18: https://replit.com/@maximum__/pct-formatting-save
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2021-05-13 13:37:51	mike18	astronavt: code formatting?
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2021-05-13 13:37:59	astronavt	huh?
2021-05-13 13:38:03	mike18	the link
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2021-05-13 13:38:08	mike18	pct formatting save
2021-05-13 13:38:16	astronavt	yes, repl.it is like ideone
2021-05-13 13:38:22	mike18	oh ok
2021-05-13 13:38:24	astronavt	its just the name i gave it
2021-05-13 13:38:33	mike18	ok thx
2021-05-13 13:38:33	cfoch	sartan, no that does not work
2021-05-13 13:40:15	blackleitus	is socketserver old?
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2021-05-13 13:43:56	deniska	blackleitus: well, I can find socketserver in docs for python 2.3 which means it appeared in 2003 or earlier
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2021-05-13 13:45:48	blackleitus	I can use socketserver in python3 too , but is real old?
2021-05-13 13:46:10	blackleitus	https://docs.python.org/3/library/socketserver.html +deniska
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2021-05-13 13:47:41	deniska	blackleitus: it's an old module, and it's probably not really recommended, but for reasons beyond that it's just old, plenty of good things are old
2021-05-13 13:49:30	blackleitus	it's but some cases it works just a simple threading like chat feature send <> recv data
2021-05-13 13:49:50	blackleitus	what are the new version of this twisted?
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2021-05-13 13:50:19	petaflot	I was busy... and I'm back. the second part of the question is how to use (what I know as) indirection: https://bpa.st/Z7AQ
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2021-05-13 13:50:34	meejah	blackleitus: are you asking about Twisted, the networking framework?
2021-05-13 13:52:02	zumba_addict	How do I convert this value to string? https://bpa.st/2EKQ
2021-05-13 13:52:03	deniska	blackleitus: well, twisted is certainly one of the modules (and an old one at that) people reach for when building network stuff in python
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2021-05-13 13:54:03	deniska	zumba_addict: assuming array.array instance, there's .tobytes() method to convert it to `bytes` object, but the array you gave doesn't look like utf-8 or another common encoding
2021-05-13 13:54:07	petaflot	if I'm not mistaken, php allows sth like this with $$: http://www.java2s.com/Tutorials/PHP/Language_Basics/Variable/Use_indirect_variable_reference_in_PHP.htm
2021-05-13 13:54:51	deniska	petaflot: you might be looking for setattr
2021-05-13 13:55:10	deniska	petaflot: but with great power comes great responsibility
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2021-05-13 13:56:03	petaflot	deniska: :-*
2021-05-13 13:56:04	zumba_addict	deniska=> is it a bad format?
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2021-05-13 13:56:27	grym	petaflot: why are you defining a class whose instance attributes you don't already know
2021-05-13 13:56:30	_habnabit	zumba_addict, what string do you want out?
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2021-05-13 13:56:44	deniska	zumba_addict: well, it's an array which represents arbitrary bytes, I'm not sure what these bytes are supposed to mean
2021-05-13 13:56:47	zumba_addict	it's actually data that I extracted from a drone goggles
2021-05-13 13:57:10	deniska	zumba_addict: they don't look like any *text* encoding I'm immediately familiar with. Maybe it's an image, or something compressed, I dunno
2021-05-13 13:57:11	petaflot	grym: I know them. I'm just "lazy" (and I want the code to be short)
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2021-05-13 13:57:23	grym	petaflot: this is not lazy
2021-05-13 13:57:34	_habnabit	petaflot, you might be looking for https://www.attrs.org/en/stable/examples.html
2021-05-13 13:57:38	grym	petaflot: this is "i'm a masochistic refactorer" :)
2021-05-13 13:57:40	zumba_addict	i'm using pyusb to read data from the usb port of the drone goggle
2021-05-13 13:58:07	zumba_addict	I'm trying to figure out why my data is bad compared to the code that was written in NodeJS
2021-05-13 13:58:07	_habnabit	zumba_addict, ok, so you don't know what string the data you got corresponds to?
2021-05-13 13:58:13	_habnabit	zumba_addict, what's bad about it?
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2021-05-13 13:58:43	petaflot	_habnabit: whoo. much to read. I might not be awake enough for this atm. but I will read it in depth
2021-05-13 13:58:45	deniska	also python already has a thing you can put arbitrary things on in a constructor: types.SimpleNamespace :)
2021-05-13 13:59:00	petaflot	grym: well... I kinda figured out I was sorta masochist
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2021-05-13 13:59:41	grym	petaflot: https://bpa.st/EKHQ  that's short
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2021-05-13 13:59:51	grym	uh, i typoed it, but it's short ;)
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2021-05-13 13:59:54	petaflot	grym: if you knew what I was really working on you'd probably be convinced. but now is a little too early for me to show you ;-)
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2021-05-13 14:00:41	grym	m y s t e r i o u s
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2021-05-13 14:01:18	petaflot	grym: oooh that attr.s decorator I don't remember seeing. something else I will dig intop
2021-05-13 14:01:31	grym	petaflot: https://www.attrs.org/en/stable/why.html#hand-written-classes  :)
2021-05-13 14:01:36	mike18	where can i see what exception pandas generates?
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2021-05-13 14:01:41	grym	mike18: their docs, for a start
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2021-05-13 14:02:04	zumba_addict	_habnabit=> when using the project voc-poc which is a nodejs app, it creates a bin file from data captured from usb port. I can use ffmpeg to convert the bin file to an mp4 format. I wrote the same application using python and pyusb. I displayed the output of addresses that was being used by nodejs. I used the same. However, my output stream is a little different from the one created by nodejs and cannot be converted by ffmpeg.
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2021-05-13 14:02:29	_habnabit	zumba_addict, 'a little different' in what way?
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2021-05-13 14:02:39	mike18	grym: seems there are lots of exceptions
2021-05-13 14:02:50	mike18	maybe better to catch Exception in this case?
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2021-05-13 14:03:00	grym	mike18: nope
2021-05-13 14:03:05	grym	catch what you expect to be thrown
2021-05-13 14:03:06	zumba_addict	some weird characters but the header looks fine
2021-05-13 14:03:23	zumba_addict	let me create a screenshot of the 2 bin files
2021-05-13 14:03:26	_habnabit	zumba_addict, could you show us an example instead of a summay?
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2021-05-13 14:03:46	zumba_addict	example of?
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2021-05-13 14:03:59	_habnabit	zumba_addict, whatever you're looking at for comparison
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2021-05-13 14:04:10	zumba_addict	did you mean the 2 bin files?
2021-05-13 14:04:17	petaflot	grym: damn, that last link blew my mind. I really need to look at it when my mind is clear. but I can already thank you
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2021-05-13 14:06:28	grym	petaflot: it's very nice
2021-05-13 14:06:29	zumba_addict	https://i.imgur.com/1070Mor.png
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2021-05-13 14:06:42	zumba_addict	rawvideo2.bin is the one my code created
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2021-05-13 14:06:58	zumba_addict	characters are weird and not being shown properly
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2021-05-13 14:07:13	zumba_addict	right side is the one created by the nodejs voc-poc
2021-05-13 14:07:15	_habnabit	zumba_addict, your hex editor seems to be a bit buggy
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2021-05-13 14:07:27	_habnabit	zumba_addict, can you use a different one?
2021-05-13 14:07:28	zumba_addict	i'll show you vi
2021-05-13 14:07:31	zumba_addict	sure
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2021-05-13 14:10:55	zumba_addict	_habnabit=> https://i.imgur.com/fala2dc.png
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2021-05-13 14:11:10	ammar2	o_O
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2021-05-13 14:11:56	purplex88	is using while(a or b): x+=1 with two condition with 'or' same as using two while loops right, i.e. while(a): x+=1 and then while(b): x+=1 ?
2021-05-13 14:12:43	zumba_addict	_habnabit=> and here's the hex version - https://i.imgur.com/7QhjqzM.png
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2021-05-13 14:13:21	ammar2	purplex88: what's the real code?
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2021-05-13 14:14:05	ammar2	because in that nothing actually updates `a` or `b` making the behavior effectively "infinite loop" or "no loop"
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2021-05-13 14:14:42	purplex88	yea well a and b also update
2021-05-13 14:14:46	zumba_addict	_habnabit=> and this is the code I use to write the data I capture from usb port of the goggles using pyusb - https://bpa.st/4XJQ
2021-05-13 14:16:00	meejah	purplex88: it's not necessarily the same, is the point (it might be .. but also might not be)
2021-05-13 14:16:13	_habnabit	zumba_addict, oh. yes, this code is nonsense. you're doing a utf-8 conversion
2021-05-13 14:16:18	blackleitus	socketserver vs twisted?
2021-05-13 14:16:40	_habnabit	zumba_addict, with open('whatever', 'wb') as myfile: myfile.write(data)
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2021-05-13 14:16:46	purplex88	i might post some real code example
2021-05-13 14:16:48	zumba_addict	what should I do?
2021-05-13 14:17:04	meejah	purplex88: real code is good (please use a pastebin)
2021-05-13 14:17:05	_habnabit	zumba_addict, delete the chr() line; it is nonsense
2021-05-13 14:17:18	zumba_addict	k
2021-05-13 14:17:24	Peyam	what is the different between importing a class in python and creating an object it? I mean you could just use a method inside the imported class instead of creating an instance.
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2021-05-13 14:17:57	zumba_addict	I remember encountering an error yesterday when I was writing data value the file
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2021-05-13 14:17:57	_habnabit	Peyam, you can create as many instances as you want and they won't share data
2021-05-13 14:18:00	zumba_addict	let me try again
2021-05-13 14:18:10	_habnabit	zumba_addict, you probably didn't open the file in 'wb' mode
2021-05-13 14:18:11	zumba_addict	oh, "wb"?
2021-05-13 14:18:15	zumba_addict	yeah
2021-05-13 14:18:16	zumba_addict	wow
2021-05-13 14:18:18	zumba_addict	let me try
2021-05-13 14:18:22	zumba_addict	I only used w
2021-05-13 14:18:41	zumba_addict	give me few mins
2021-05-13 14:18:54	CNFANG	..
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2021-05-13 14:20:26	zumba_addict	_habnabit=> wow, it's looking better!!!!!!!!! :D
2021-05-13 14:20:41	zumba_addict	you are the best!!!!!!
2021-05-13 14:20:44	zumba_addict	woohoO!!!
2021-05-13 14:20:49	meejah	zumba_addict: "w" is write, "b" is "binary"
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2021-05-13 14:21:17	zumba_addict	OMG, I was able to convert it to MP4
2021-05-13 14:21:20	zumba_addict	wooohoo!!!!
2021-05-13 14:21:23	_habnabit	zumba_addict, yay
2021-05-13 14:21:26	zumba_addict	you are amaazing!!!!!!
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2021-05-13 14:21:48	zumba_addict	thank you so much!!!!!
2021-05-13 14:22:21	_habnabit	zumba_addict, make a donation to a charity for me
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2021-05-13 14:22:24	_habnabit	zumba_addict, can offer suggestions
2021-05-13 14:22:36	zumba_addict	sure :D
2021-05-13 14:22:59	_habnabit	zumba_addict, the okra project in .us is a good one
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2021-05-13 14:23:09	zumba_addict	i'll google
2021-05-13 14:23:35	zumba_addict	this? https://www.theokraproject.com/
2021-05-13 14:23:42	_habnabit	yep
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2021-05-13 14:23:52	zumba_addict	nice!
2021-05-13 14:23:52	grym	mmm, okra
2021-05-13 14:24:04	grym	cronch cronch cronch
2021-05-13 14:24:14	_habnabit	grym, they're too slimy to cronch
2021-05-13 14:24:23	purplex88	after writing real code, i found answer myself lol
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2021-05-13 14:27:11	DPA	I have functions like R('a-d') -> 'abcd'. Is there some way to pre-evaluate them on startup? I mean, I could store the result in a global variable, but that can become unreadable pretty quickly when there are lot's of them.
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2021-05-13 14:28:43	_habnabit	DPA, that's not valid python syntax, so what would it mean to evaluate it?
2021-05-13 14:28:50	Peyam	what is the difference between members and attributes?
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2021-05-13 14:29:04	bjs	Peyam: nothing,  different languages call the same thing by different names
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2021-05-13 14:32:38	bjs	Peyam: Python typically doesn't use the word "members", and when it does (e.g. in the docs), it's not very consistent.
2021-05-13 14:32:50	DPA	_habnabit: It's not that important what the functions do, it's just that I call them in a lot of places, using constatant values, and get always the same constant result.
2021-05-13 14:32:51	DPA	So I would like to pre-compute them without the code becoming an unreadable mess of global variables.
2021-05-13 14:33:03	Peyam	bjs, you call them attributes?
2021-05-13 14:33:17	bjs	Peyam: for `x.y` then yes, Python calls "y" the attribute of the object x
2021-05-13 14:33:56	blackleitus	I have a question. I am working with socketserver , and I have self.data = self.request.recv(1024).decode() , if I send a 9000 chars over network, is going to split into 4 packets of 1024?
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2021-05-13 14:34:26	_habnabit	DPA, i mean.. can you show us what the code would look like that you dislike?
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2021-05-13 14:34:38	_habnabit	DPA, it's easier to offer a suggestion from there
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2021-05-13 14:34:57	bjs	Peyam: real languages are complicated, and words often don't have nice concise definitions. For example if you have x.y there are many ways Python looks up the "y" attribute, and the value can come from many places too
2021-05-13 14:35:18	Peyam	thank bjs
2021-05-13 14:35:27	bjs	and sometimes people use "attribute" for all of them,  sometimes people only use "attribute" for some of those ways, and sometimes people use "members" (although, much less commonly with Python)
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2021-05-13 14:45:38	DPA	_habnabit: My code isn't functional yet, but to give an example: https://pastebin.com/BM5FcUz8
2021-05-13 14:45:38	DPA	Basically, I want to keep the charrange function where I actually need the result, like in example A, so I see what I'm actually doing. But I want to evaluate it at startup, like in example B.
2021-05-13 14:45:39	infobob	https://bpaste.net/CK5Q (repasted for DPA)
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2021-05-13 14:46:00	squirrel	blackleitus: you are limiting the bytes in recv() but asking about sending instead? and how the system is going to split 9000 bytes in 4 packets of 1024?....
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2021-05-13 14:46:27	Peyam	is function in the super class is defined as public, is it possible to override it and make it static?
2021-05-13 14:46:54	blackleitus	I did a test +squirrel I sent 9000 bytes and slipt into 4 packets of 1024
2021-05-13 14:46:57	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: python has no “public” methods
2021-05-13 14:47:11	squirrel	blackleitus: 4 * 1024 is less than 9000
2021-05-13 14:47:13	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: and the answer, try it and see
2021-05-13 14:47:26	Peyam	ChrisWarrick, I meant methods without `__` and `@static`
2021-05-13 14:47:35	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: don’t use __
2021-05-13 14:47:39	Peyam	why not?
2021-05-13 14:47:44	Peyam	I use it alot
2021-05-13 14:47:50	blackleitus	+squirrel, yeah , but it split it
2021-05-13 14:48:10	Peyam	ChrisWarrick, I use it even for `private` variables
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2021-05-13 14:53:39	bjs	Peyam: it doesn't make them private.
2021-05-13 14:53:58	bjs	Peyam: infact, using __ totally messes up your overriding of methods.
2021-05-13 14:54:06	ammar2	__ mangles names
2021-05-13 14:54:24	Peyam	bjs, I know that. so by that, no set and get is actually required in Python?
2021-05-13 14:54:32	bjs	Peyam: uhm, set and get?
2021-05-13 14:54:35	ammar2	https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/classes.html#private-variables
2021-05-13 14:54:50	KirkMcDonald	Peyam: Accessors are not required, no.
2021-05-13 14:54:57	Peyam	bjs, well if you have private variables in a class you want to get and set them but public functions.
2021-05-13 14:55:00	Peyam	okej Thanks
2021-05-13 14:55:09	_habnabit	Peyam, that's just a public variable
2021-05-13 14:55:14	bjs	Peyam: well, you usually want set and get methods to do real work
2021-05-13 14:55:28	Peyam	bjs, what do you mean?
2021-05-13 14:55:51	Peyam	well yeah I know wha tyou mean bjs
2021-05-13 14:56:03	bjs	Peyam: I mean, a method executes code.  You want getter/setter methods to execute code to get the value and set the value (e.g. to perform checks).  You don't see these in Python because of @property not because of lack of private variables.
2021-05-13 14:56:18	bjs	(because @property means you can do work on attribute lookup when you need to)
2021-05-13 14:56:21	Helenah	I want something like argparse that can be used for custom commands on some custom shell, I've wrote an async SSH server shell and for the commands I want the user to be able to pass flags.
2021-05-13 14:56:29	Peyam	bjs,  thank you
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2021-05-13 14:57:21	Helenah	Sorry I struggled to explain, but rather than something like argparse be used on stdin, it's used over a socket instead. :3
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2021-05-13 14:58:02	beatrice	Helenah, you can use argparse directly by saying "parser.parse_args(args=[...])" instead of calling with no arguments, based on the docs. if you want shell-like splitting from a string into an argument list, try "shlex.split"
2021-05-13 14:58:41	Helenah	Oh wow, nice didn't come across that! xD
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2021-05-13 15:00:07	Helenah	Oh wow nice! xD
2021-05-13 15:00:10	Helenah	!!!
2021-05-13 15:00:16	Helenah	beatrice, Thank you! :3
2021-05-13 15:00:23	beatrice	no problem :) glad that helped
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2021-05-13 15:15:27	rudrab	Hi, can anyone kindly suggest me a easy library to draw 3 d geometric objects in python? vpython is easy, but it is only creating the canvas on browser. I am bit confused with opengl. a google search is telling that opengl.(GL, GLU and GLUT) is deprecated.
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2021-05-13 15:17:53	ELFrederich	With poetry, when I do a "poetry update" it doesn't give me the latest version of click.  They just released 8.0.0 the other day.  Other than "poetry remove click && poetry add click", is there a way to get poetry to edit your pyproject.toml file to change something like "^7.1.2" to "^8.0.0" ?
2021-05-13 15:19:31	ELFrederich	I realize "poetry update" will update with respect to what is in pyproject.toml, but poetry is the utility that created and added those lines to pyproject.toml in the first place.
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2021-05-13 15:25:32	Helenah	beatrice, I'm confused, I've added an argument which is --add with parser.add_argument('-a', '--add') and then pasted my list into parser.parse_args() but the output is that the --add argument isn't recognised.
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2021-05-13 15:28:49	xikkub	Helenah: >>> args = parser.parse_args(['--add','test'])
2021-05-13 15:28:49	xikkub	>>> args
2021-05-13 15:28:49	xikkub	Namespace(add='test') ?
2021-05-13 15:28:53	pi-	Can someone help me get my head around an aiohttp problem?
2021-05-13 15:28:57	pi-	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67515134/process-websocket-stream-while-downloading-multiple-files-using-aiohttp
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2021-05-13 15:30:08	pi-	I need to background download files while picking up messages from a websocket stream.
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2021-05-13 15:30:29	pi-	And I can't see how to do it.
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2021-05-13 15:31:58	graingert	pi-: async with anyio.create_task_group() as tg:
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2021-05-13 15:32:14	graingert	pi-: tg.start_soon(download_snapshot, snaphot)
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2021-05-13 15:33:40	graingert	pi-: presumably process_update should be async
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2021-05-13 15:34:16	graingert	or use a thread: await anyio.to_thread.run(process_update, symbol, J)
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2021-05-13 15:36:54	pi-	graingert: Yes, I guess process_update should be async.  Would my `async with aiohttp.ClientSession() as session` go inside the anyio.create_task_group block?
2021-05-13 15:37:16	graingert	I'd put it outside
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2021-05-13 15:38:17	pi-	yes, Because the download task also requires using the same session...
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2021-05-13 15:41:48	pi-	I don't know if there's any value of `await`ing process_update. It's some optimized (jit+numpy) code. I think I will be introducing inefficiency/overheads if I try simultaneously processing multiple messages.
2021-05-13 15:41:55	graingert	pi-: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MQ2nKB3m/foo.py
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2021-05-13 15:42:19	graingert	pi-: if it will release the GIL then you should run it in a thread
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2021-05-13 15:43:28	pi-	🙏
2021-05-13 15:43:44	graingert	pi-: but also you're not doing it concurrently
2021-05-13 15:43:51	pi-	Shouldn't line 17 have `await`?
2021-05-13 15:44:16	graingert	pi-: no it starts the task in the background and it's awaited when you close the task group
2021-05-13 15:44:22	blackleitus	send data from multiple clients to a central server , how would you do it?
2021-05-13 15:44:32	graingert	blackleitus: trio
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2021-05-13 15:45:09	blackleitus	+graingert, production pipeline?
2021-05-13 15:45:19	graingert	blackleitus: httpx clients? fastapi webserver/
2021-05-13 15:45:25	graingert	maybe django
2021-05-13 15:45:54	blackleitus	django is my server, but I need to make a manager where it will recieve my data before sending to django
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2021-05-13 15:46:00	blackleitus	is this still trio?
2021-05-13 15:46:08	graingert	a manager? what for?
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2021-05-13 15:46:33	blackleitus	send data from multiple clients to a central server where the incomming data it will be merged if its duplicated
2021-05-13 15:46:47	graingert	you should detail your constraints first if you want an architecture designed for you :p
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2021-05-13 15:47:09	graingert	blackleitus: the django web server can just use a table with a unique constraint
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2021-05-13 15:47:56	blackleitus	sure, but example if  a client send the same data as clint B then checks both data if client a some data is missing it will be using some data of client B in order to complete it
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2021-05-13 15:48:40	graingert	blackleitus: you can do that with a database and django
2021-05-13 15:48:47	graingert	blackleitus: use get_or_create
2021-05-13 15:49:20	graingert	blackleitus: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.2/ref/models/querysets/#django.db.models.query.QuerySet.get_or_create
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2021-05-13 15:50:17	blackleitus	so instead of writing a manger . use get_or_create and send all raw data in django focus on updating values?
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2021-05-13 15:51:12	graingert	yeah use a database with constraints and transactions first, then if the performance isn't good enough you can try another approach
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2021-05-13 15:53:14	blackleitus	lets say. I Have two clients that pushes similar data . how would you setup sensors in order to run it each hour? celery two tasks?
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2021-05-13 15:53:35	graingert	run what each hour?
2021-05-13 15:54:29	blackleitus	the clients runs each hour
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2021-05-13 15:55:11	blackleitus	in the case of trio. how can I send to a central server data from multiples clients , and sever only reply with recieved ?
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2021-05-13 15:55:56	graingert	blackleitus: ?
2021-05-13 15:56:26	graingert	blackleitus: just make a django view that takes the data
2021-05-13 15:56:29	blackleitus	lets start over, I want to send data from multiple clients to a central server , how would you do it?
2021-05-13 15:56:49	graingert	and call it with httpx.post(that_url, data=your_data)
2021-05-13 15:57:48	blackleitus	i dont use http import
2021-05-13 15:58:09	blackleitus	so trio for managing multiples tcp clients and import data
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2021-05-13 16:00:56	graingert	blackleitus: you have a django server right?
2021-05-13 16:01:23	graingert	just make a view that accepts POST messages with the data from your client and saves a model
2021-05-13 16:01:34	graingert	or updates that model if it already exists
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2021-05-13 16:03:03	blackleitus	+graingert, I found this as you mention https://stackoverflow.com/q/55989610/15757438 , but I need to do the following client 1 pushs data to trio script, client 2 push data to trio , trio analize this data and merge duplicates , finally send fordward to django via orm
2021-05-13 16:03:26	graingert	just send it directly from the clients to django
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2021-05-13 16:04:26	blackleitus	why not trio handle the duplicates?
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2021-05-13 16:21:25	edgimar	I'm looking for a mostly-built-in solution to a disk-backed list.  I could use shelve, but this is extremely slow.  It's fine for the 'disk-backed-list' to be append-only (with random read access).  Any suggestions or "off the shelf" options available?
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2021-05-13 16:22:01	edgimar	The list contains arbitrary python structures (mostly dictionaries that contains other lists, etc.).
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2021-05-13 16:22:48	edgimar	I could cobble something together with sqlite3 and pickle, but I have to imagine there is already something out there.
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2021-05-13 16:30:38	graingert	blackleitus: yagn
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2021-05-13 16:47:30	pi-	graingert: That's amazing. It seems to be working!
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2021-05-13 16:47:44	pi-	One problem: I can't CTRL-c out of my running code.
2021-05-13 16:48:01	graingert	pi-: Uhh what happens when you do?
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2021-05-13 16:49:05	mike18	hi guys
2021-05-13 16:49:09	mike18	are you all using python:3.9.5?
2021-05-13 16:49:18	mike18	is it recommended to use this latest version?
2021-05-13 16:49:36	graingert	mike18: I use a mix of various versions
2021-05-13 16:49:42	mike18	mix?
2021-05-13 16:49:47	graingert	mike18: I tend to skip versions ending in .0
2021-05-13 16:49:50	Peyam	when you inherit from a class do  you have to import the super class?
2021-05-13 16:50:01	mike18	it had some security fixes
2021-05-13 16:50:01	graingert	Peyam: no
2021-05-13 16:50:07	Peyam	thanks
2021-05-13 16:50:08	rndm	I have a kind of maybe dumb question. I am trying to implement a mixin that adds the builder pattern to something. In doing so I'd like to invoke the derived classes init method. Granted, this may be a bit of an anti-pattern, but is it possible?
2021-05-13 16:50:09	mike18	thats why i thoiught use 3.9.5
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2021-05-13 16:50:25	graingert	mike18: what os?
2021-05-13 16:50:29	mike18	i run it in docker
2021-05-13 16:50:33	mike18	FROM python:3.9.5
2021-05-13 16:50:42	mike18	image
2021-05-13 16:50:53	graingert	mike18: oh yeah you'll want the latest docker for 3.9
2021-05-13 16:51:18	grym	mike18: many of my dependencies don't support >3.8 at this time
2021-05-13 16:51:28	mike18	ok
2021-05-13 16:51:37	mike18	why i should see if thats the case with my code?
2021-05-13 16:51:47	mike18	i just run it with 3.9.5
2021-05-13 16:51:49	graingert	mike18: it's good practice
2021-05-13 16:51:50	mike18	didnt see issues
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2021-05-13 16:52:11	graingert	Probably fine then, do you have tests?
2021-05-13 16:52:19	graingert	Do you run with DeprecationWarning enabled?
2021-05-13 16:52:24	mike18	not many tests yet
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2021-05-13 16:52:31	mike18	adding it slowly
2021-05-13 16:52:40	mike18	i dont have DeprecationWarning enabled
2021-05-13 16:52:44	mike18	how to enable it?
2021-05-13 16:52:52	mike18	i run in docker: CMD [ "python", "app.py" ]
2021-05-13 16:53:02	pi-	graingert: It won't break out of the message loop. I fixed it by setting a flag: https://bpa.st/LDTQ
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2021-05-13 16:54:22	mike18	import warnings
2021-05-13 16:54:22	mike18	>>> warnings.simplefilter('always', DeprecationWarning)
2021-05-13 16:54:23	mike18	?
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2021-05-13 16:55:09	pi-	graingert: That code injection of yours was so helpful, I was completely stuck with the aio! It feels like I'm in a different language/universe when I'm using async tooling. Where I don't have enough context to 'figure it out(TM)'.
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2021-05-13 16:56:09	pi-	I imagine it would take several days (weeks?) of solid learning and test/practising to train up with it.
2021-05-13 16:56:13	--	_ELFrederich is now known as ELFrederich
2021-05-13 16:57:00	pi-	Also there seem to be so many different solution paths for a given problem.
2021-05-13 16:57:11	pi-	Hard to get traction.
2021-05-13 16:57:47	Peyam	is it possible to override an instance's function?
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2021-05-13 16:58:08	graingert	pi-: You've got your code backwards - you should use anyio.run in your main function
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2021-05-13 16:58:22	graingert	And use anyio.to_thread.run to run blocking code
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2021-05-13 16:58:58	graingert	Peyam: it's a bit messy and depends case by case on the instance
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2021-05-13 16:59:07	pi-	graingert: Problem is I've got about 10 code components, and I don't have the bandwidth to rearchitect the entire project to use async.
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2021-05-13 16:59:39	graingert	pi-: well use anyio.start_blocking_portal() if you have to use a thread
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2021-05-13 17:00:36	graingert	pi-: https://anyio.readthedocs.io/en/latest/threads.html#calling-asynchronous-code-from-an-external-thread
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2021-05-13 17:00:43	pi-	Is there some actual functional problem with my solution path? Or is it just clumsy...
2021-05-13 17:01:13	<--	d3sync|2 (~d3sync@unaffiliated/d3sync) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-13 17:01:16	pi-	Because my code creates a thread...
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2021-05-13 17:02:33	graingert	pi-: means you can easily terminate it without polling a flag
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2021-05-13 17:11:26	graingert	pi-: https://anyio.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api.html#anyio.abc.BlockingPortal.start_task_soon you can call .cancel() on the Future returned
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2021-05-13 17:34:18	blackleitus	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67526492/how-do-i-allow-broadcast-back-message-to-the-client-sent-me-the-message
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2021-05-13 17:49:36	ChrisWarrick	blackleitus: #python isn’t meant for soliciting answers for SO questions
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2021-05-13 18:34:36	kek_	hi where can I find the souce for the Py_Finalize() function https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#c.Py_Finalize ?
2021-05-13 18:34:55	Santzes	Hmmh. Using rich to print Text() on the screen, I have multiple rows separated by \n. The rows are padded to same length with withspaces. using justify="center" on rich, it gets justified... without the whitespaces, as in without the padding, as in messed up
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2021-05-13 18:35:36	Santzes	any ideas? I'd just implement my own alignment, but I'm having trouble getting the panel sizes from rich..
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2021-05-13 18:41:31	KirkMcDonald	kek_: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Python/pylifecycle.c#L1837
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2021-05-13 18:43:04	kek_	KirkMcDonald, thanks
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2021-05-13 18:44:45	nedbat	kek_: sounds like you are digging into something interesting. what's going on?
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2021-05-13 18:46:54	kek_	nedbat, Basically https://github.com/lava/matplotlib-cpp/issues/248 with python3.9 I get a segfault, with python2.7 I don't. I saw that they call the deconstructor explicitly and inside the deconstructor Py_Finalize(). So Wanted to check Py_Finalize() to check out why it depends on the python version.
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2021-05-13 18:49:27	nedbat	kek_: seems thorny. good luck
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2021-05-13 18:58:47	kek_	nedbat, thanks :P keeps me busy for sure
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2021-05-13 19:19:22	astronavt	is it possible to simulate `await` from inside a PDB debugger session?
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2021-05-13 19:27:37	graingert	astronavt: I don't think so
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2021-05-13 19:28:02	graingert	you can create_task(v).add_done_callback
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2021-05-13 19:41:32	graingert	astronavt: https://bugs.python.org/issue42045
2021-05-13 19:42:11	graingert	astronavt: Whenever you're writing code, just check to see if you're writing an async def, and if so don't write bugs
2021-05-13 19:42:21	astronavt	lol
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2021-05-13 19:45:04	InPhase	import nobugs
2021-05-13 19:45:39	SnoopJ	InPhase, just crashes the interpreter I reckon
2021-05-13 19:45:54	astronavt	i think ive spent 2/3 of my workday trying to figure out "why isnt this connecting to the damn mongo server"
2021-05-13 19:45:58	sartan	from __future__ import fixed_bugs
2021-05-13 19:46:00	astronavt	my brain is goo
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2021-05-13 19:48:50	astronavt	omg WHAT. the order of command line flags matters in mongoexport????
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2021-05-13 19:50:29	astronavt	no, i'm just stupid
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2021-05-13 20:22:21	mawk	when I do "raise SystemExit()" from a thread, it will close the whole process right?
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2021-05-13 20:25:26	nedbat	mawk: not sure, it might get swallowed by the thread runner
2021-05-13 20:25:39	mawk	hmm
2021-05-13 20:26:04	mawk	so I might spawn a new thread that does "sleep(5); os._exit()", then do the sys.exit()
2021-05-13 20:26:20	mawk	if I had to do a dirty fix because I'm behind a deadline
2021-05-13 20:26:50	mawk	the pretty fix would be to look where this is swallowed I suppose
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2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Topic for #python is "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:59
2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Channel #python: 1629 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1629 normals)
2021-05-15 11:03:53	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
2021-05-15 11:04:00	c0mrade	p0a, don't we agree that sorts are nLogn? or in case of example its a Log a. but thery're syaing it's not it's O(a*s log a)
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2021-05-15 11:05:12	c0mrade	wait so the second sort is factoring in the length of the string with n Log n....
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2021-05-15 11:06:02	c0mrade	You should take into account that you need to compare the strings, each string comparison takes O(s), still not quite getting it
2021-05-15 11:06:17	c0mrade	I havent compared anything.
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2021-05-15 11:09:24	p0a	Yhg1s: https://bpa.st/QJUQ
2021-05-15 11:09:44	p0a	c0mrade: Okay first, one question is whether their analysis is correct or not; another question is what the actual problem we're trying to solve is
2021-05-15 11:10:20	c0mrade	Their analysis is correct for sure.
2021-05-15 11:10:25	Yhg1s	p0a: can you show the layout of files, by running something like 'tree'?
2021-05-15 11:10:29	Yhg1s	(or 'find')
2021-05-15 11:10:38	c0mrade	This is one of the most famous books. "Cracking the Coding Inteview"
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2021-05-15 11:12:27	p0a	Yhg1s: https://bpa.st/GFWQ
2021-05-15 11:13:00	Yhg1s	p0a: tests/sids/ also needs an __init__.py file.
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2021-05-15 11:13:43	p0a	Yhg1s: same error
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2021-05-15 11:14:38	p0a	c0mrade: Okay, what do you not understand exactly from the example?
2021-05-15 11:15:02	p0a	c0mrade: I'm assuming you're taking an issue with something said after 'Now we can work through this in parts:'...
2021-05-15 11:15:34	c0mrade	p0a, the second sort is a log a, am not getting why is it s * a log a
2021-05-15 11:15:48	p0a	c0mrade: to be honest, I think the analysis is incorrect, unless there is more contextual information outside of what you've taken a picture of
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2021-05-15 11:16:28	c0mrade	No that's it.
2021-05-15 11:16:49	c0mrade	Someone in the Python Discord channel replied to me like that:
2021-05-15 11:16:50	c0mrade	Because sorting two strings could (in the worst case of identical strings) require you to iterate the entire length of the string. Ergo, s extra steps per iteration of a
2021-05-15 11:16:51	p0a	c0mrade: or at least the parameters aren't named... `s' here is the maximum length of the strings involved,
2021-05-15 11:17:28	p0a	c0mrade: a being the number of strings, so number_of_strings * sorting_worst_string is an upper bound
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2021-05-15 11:17:35	Yhg1s	p0a: hm, maybe I'm misunderstanding what should work with pytest. The usual recommendation (and it's a good one!) is to use tox or nox to run pytest in a virtualenv, instead.
2021-05-15 11:17:47	c0mrade	Also someone else saying:
2021-05-15 11:17:48	c0mrade	Sorting is n log n assuming that each comparison between items is constant time
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2021-05-15 11:18:11	p0a	Well they're pointing out what I also pointed out with the ["a...a", "a...ab"] example
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2021-05-15 11:19:09	p0a	at the end of the big-O analysis you get a sum, which is two completely separate problems' complexities added. Which one are you taking an issue with?
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2021-05-15 11:19:36	c0mrade	What do you mean.
2021-05-15 11:19:47	c0mrade	The end result is O(a*s(log a + log s))
2021-05-15 11:20:17	p0a	It's also equal to O(a*s*log a) + O(a*s*log s)
2021-05-15 11:20:31	p0a	and each of the two summands is the result of big-O analysis of separate problems
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2021-05-15 11:21:24	c0mrade	I don't know. That's Example Number 8. There's no seperate problems.
2021-05-15 11:22:03	p0a	Yeah the problem stated in Example 8 is split into two subproblems though
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2021-05-15 11:22:30	very_sneaky	does it factor that way?
2021-05-15 11:22:44	very_sneaky	maybe it does
2021-05-15 11:22:56	very_sneaky	it's also O(a*s*log(a)*log(s))
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2021-05-15 11:23:12	p0a	That's not sharp though
2021-05-15 11:23:23	leitz	nedbat, graingert, kim_bruning; thanks! I need to take a break, but the initial code is up:  https://github.com/LeamHall/admin_tools/blob/master/build_pages.py
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2021-05-15 11:25:40	kim_bruning	leitz, neat!
2021-05-15 11:25:42	p0a	very_sneaky: getting the length of two lists can be said to be O(N) + O(M) or O(N + M). You can also claim O(N * M) but it's not optimal. The reason why O factors through addition (and multiplication) is that 1. its definition 2. it is an equivalence class and + extends.
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2021-05-15 11:26:32	very_sneaky	i don't disagree
2021-05-15 11:26:54	very_sneaky	i was just saying you don't need the addition because log laws
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2021-05-15 11:27:43	p0a	I don't see the log law involved, what you wrote is not optimal
2021-05-15 11:28:11	p0a	It's log(a*b) = log(a) + log(b)
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2021-05-15 11:28:30	p0a	Okay, so you meant to write O(a*s*log(a + s)) ... :)
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2021-05-15 11:31:03	DPA	Can SortedSet from the sortedcontainers module handle the situation that all keys of SortedSet(key=lambda: job.min - self.offset & 0xFFFFFFFF) change due to self.offset changing,
2021-05-15 11:31:03	DPA	but without changing the order of it's elements, because I remove all elements that would have become smaller than offset / wrapped around the ring space?
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2021-05-15 11:31:58	p0a	Yhg1s: I think I was in the wrong .venv... whoops. Thank you
2021-05-15 11:32:05	very_sneaky	p0a: ah, yes :P
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2021-05-15 11:34:42	bbert	I have some 100x GB of data in a database Im building,  the database is custom built using numpy arrays and memmaps to disk.
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2021-05-15 11:35:22	bbert	I have no experience with programming patters on writing databases,  but I noticed I must be careful with number of open files, as my database is spread over many 1MB chunks on disk
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2021-05-15 11:35:32	bbert	*patterns
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2021-05-15 11:35:56	bbert	I measured the open file time in python and found that its pretty much just about a millisecond...
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2021-05-15 11:36:39	bbert	however Im a little worried if opening and closing database files at rapid rates on linux causes any OS bottlenecks or unexpected problems that I am not familiar with at all.
2021-05-15 11:37:27	bbert	linux os has at least a limit on open files... 1024.
2021-05-15 11:39:18	p0a	bbert: everything on linux is a file, I think rapid opening & closing of files is going to be handled well
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2021-05-15 11:40:14	amogorkon	bbert, why do you have 1MB chunks on disk if you have numpy arrays?
2021-05-15 11:40:23	bbert	p0a, I guess I should just check and see how it behaves :)... seems to work great so far.
2021-05-15 11:40:37	blackleitus	is possible to make a io operation faster?
2021-05-15 11:40:40	bbert	I keep a buffer of open file connections... only closing if need a new file.
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2021-05-15 11:41:23	bbert	amogorkon, I suppose I could make the arrays bigger... the chunks are essentially flat np arrays
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2021-05-15 11:41:47	amogorkon	bbert, maybe i missed something, but if i had 100GB worth of numpy arrays, i'd use hdf5, not a db..
2021-05-15 11:41:56	amogorkon	or maybe a db in conjunction with hdf5
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2021-05-15 11:42:42	amogorkon	bbert, i don't really see the point in handling those chunks manually?
2021-05-15 11:42:42	bbert	amogorkon, the data is yes spatial in reality and I use kdtree to handle indexing of lookup in the database
2021-05-15 11:43:32	bbert	amogorkon, it would be great to find some library, like hdf5  that does that reliably.  I ran into problems with xarray for example because it uses dask, and dask was causing people problems with load times...
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2021-05-15 11:43:40	bbert	I should check if hdf5 lib uses dask...
2021-05-15 11:43:57	amogorkon	what has dask to do with hdf5?
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2021-05-15 11:44:18	bbert	hdf5 netcdf would be a good data storage indeed
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2021-05-15 11:44:34	bbert	amogorkon, but I want to quickly read from disk... only the data being asked for
2021-05-15 11:44:43	amogorkon	hdf5 does that
2021-05-15 11:45:25	bbert	amogorkon, ok I will look into it.... its one thing the file format... another thing the library that actually reads form the file.  I ran into problems using xarray on hdf5 and netcdf.
2021-05-15 11:45:32	bbert	but lower level libs might do the trick
2021-05-15 11:45:37	amogorkon	comes with transparent compression and other fancy stuff
2021-05-15 11:45:58	amogorkon	i can recommend reading the hdf5 book, if you want to go into detail
2021-05-15 11:46:22	bbert	amogorkon, no you are right... hdf5 and netcdf are excellent data containers... do everything
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2021-05-15 11:46:49	amogorkon	bbert, https://learning.oreilly.com/library/view/python-and-hdf5/9781491944981/
2021-05-15 11:48:41	bbert	cached reads with xarray on hdf5 were however a problem... and I found was coded into dask.  It assumed I wanted cached reads :)  killed performance.  But if I check out hdf5 module, it will probably just do exactly what I want it to do.
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2021-05-15 11:48:57	bbert	if I say read this byte at this offset... just do that please... nothing else :)
2021-05-15 11:49:55	bbert	the higher level the library the more potential problems thats all :)
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2021-05-15 11:50:39	blackleitus	is possible to make a io operation faster than using another processador?
2021-05-15 11:51:16	amogorkon	bbert, not sure about caching, but hdf5 is good at reading only pieces from a mountain of data, that's the point in being "hierarchical" ^^
2021-05-15 11:51:40	bbert	amogorkon, yes :) agree
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2021-05-15 11:52:43	bbert	blackleitus, I dont understand the question,
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2021-05-15 11:53:15	bbert	blackleitus, you can use threads... if thats what you are asking
2021-05-15 11:53:52	blackleitus	well. threads doesnt help since my code depends a lot of scrapping
2021-05-15 11:54:42	bbert	blackleitus, scraping?  or scrapping?
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2021-05-15 11:55:50	graingert	You can buy a faster network connection
2021-05-15 11:55:56	blackleitus	`scraping`
2021-05-15 11:56:23	blackleitus	+graingert, I notice vps makes the scrip a lot faster with 1TB network
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2021-05-15 11:56:58	graingert	Buy an even faster network connection
2021-05-15 11:57:04	bbert	blackleitus, scraping can be made very concurrent usually.
2021-05-15 11:57:45	bbert	blackleitus, I think google search enginge bots do that,  unless Im mistaken
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2021-05-15 11:59:07	bbert	blackleitus, and as graingert said... maybe your internet speed is slow... where is your bottleneck?  Downloading webpages, or is your CPU thread maxing out when processing the pages?
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2021-05-15 12:00:36	blackleitus	+bbert, it could be a both
2021-05-15 12:00:58	bbert	blackleitus, it might not be your internet speed... usually the servers you fetch from are also limited... and dont respond immediatly or at full speed
2021-05-15 12:01:21	bbert	blackleitus, I would think you would normally get huge improvements by running a few threads to fetch data online
2021-05-15 12:01:23	blackleitus	sure, but why mine script on my local takes 2 days , and vps 30 min
2021-05-15 12:01:24	blackleitus	?
2021-05-15 12:01:32	blackleitus	network + hardware?
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2021-05-15 12:01:49	bbert	blackleitus, how big is the data... where are you getting the data from?
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2021-05-15 12:02:58	bbert	hm... ok VPS is faster huh?   is it your own VPS or some service provider?
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2021-05-15 12:04:25	bbert	its not so unusual that you might get speedup based on location... and protocols... it can depend on so many things... e.g. your service provider might be limiting certain TCP ports, but not limiting VPN
2021-05-15 12:04:43	bbert	or anyone along the route to the data could be limiting and optimizing
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2021-05-15 12:05:41	bbert	the server that provides the data... e.g. netflix or someone might be prioritizing speed towards certain ip addresses, in USA for example
2021-05-15 12:06:12	bbert	when you join a VPN network your ip address and location looks different to the whole system..
2021-05-15 12:06:28	blackleitus	+bbert, the data comes from indeed and how much 22 countries with 400+ cities with 30+ job profiles . this gives me 4k+ requests
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2021-05-15 12:08:32	bbert	blackleitus, well yes there is nothing wrong with your internet connection... but your ISP, the server and servers along route are doing something based on your IP and/or protocol to slow you down.  Im not sure you can easily figure that out though, what exactly their policy is.
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2021-05-15 12:09:31	 *	nedbat uses "global" and won't apologize
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2021-05-15 12:10:58	bbert	blackleitus, you can set up your own VPN... if your ISP is causing issues.... also try running your program on an AWS instance in different regions,  see what helps
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2021-05-15 12:12:02	bbert	blackleitus, or just accept whatever your ISP and routing and target servers are doing... and run many threads instead fetching the data.
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2021-05-15 12:13:15	bbert	nedbat, I use globals mainly to set a configuration state in a module. Good for state pattern
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2021-05-15 12:13:57	bbert	nedbat, also globals I use for buffers... keeping track of objects in a particular state.
2021-05-15 12:15:04	bbert	nedbat, maybe many other non-global ways of doing it though :)
2021-05-15 12:15:22	nedbat	bbert: there usually are!
2021-05-15 12:16:05	squirrel	why did python decide against final variables? (names that can't be rebound)
2021-05-15 12:16:14	bbert	nedbat, I think I goto was allowed, I might use that too lol
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2021-05-15 12:18:33	nedbat	squirrel: there's very little in Python that means "you can't do that"
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2021-05-15 12:21:00	squirrel	nedbat: the biggest point of final refernces is that they make code easier to reason about imo
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2021-05-15 12:21:13	nedbat	squirrel: there are definite advantages
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2021-05-15 12:21:42	nedbat	squirrel: private/public also makes code easier to reason about.  also, static types.
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2021-05-15 12:22:46	squirrel	well, yes
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2021-05-15 12:25:07	blackleitus	+bbert, I did on DO with US servers and works pretty fine
2021-05-15 12:25:33	blackleitus	my code is this https://github.com/SkyBulk/hunter/blob/master/hunter.py
2021-05-15 12:25:37	bbert	squirrel, would final declaration not make python typed in some way?  But then I see in JS, you can do something like that even though JS is considered ducktyped
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2021-05-15 12:25:49	blackleitus	I think it need to refactor to asyncio
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2021-05-15 12:26:41	squirrel	bbert: i don't think it would? it just says, you can't reassign to this name
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2021-05-15 12:27:06	bbert	squirrel, right, its not a type... just dont change this
2021-05-15 12:27:14	bbert	* the ref that is
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2021-05-15 12:28:20	squirrel	when i started writing in a language that has `val`/`var` i realized that i actually almost never need to rebing names. so i have my editor highlight mutable variable names in a special way. super useful
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2021-05-15 12:28:55	bbert	squirrel, also JS has control of scope with let and var
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2021-05-15 12:31:18	bbert	squirrel, JS const / final would maybe the most useful though for debugging,  but Ive never found a bug that way... or very rare.  Unit and integration testing most often by far most helpful
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2021-05-15 12:32:18	blackleitus	how can I refactor the following code https://github.com/SkyBulk/hunter/blob/master/hunter.py ?
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2021-05-15 12:33:33	nemo_	the biggest is problem is those god awful indents.
2021-05-15 12:34:51	bbert	blackleitus, I think you can keep on using requests, there are a zillion tutorials on threads in python on youtube... begin with something simple.
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2021-05-15 12:35:17	ChrisWarrick	a zillion tutorials, and a zillion of them have grave mistakes…
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2021-05-15 12:36:03	bbert	blackleitus, the code will be more verbose though... you could consider (depends what you are doing) running many instances of your program too
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2021-05-15 12:36:35	blackleitus	+bbert, like rabbitmq ?
2021-05-15 12:37:10	bbert	blackleitus, with threads you really need to look at a simple introduction... it will should show you how to sync up your threads... you need await your threads to finish if they depend on each other.
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2021-05-15 12:38:03	bbert	blackleitus, in some cases... they are completely independent... and you need not sync anything up... then your code simple... or run many instances "workers"
2021-05-15 12:38:21	blackleitus	I Have heard asyncio is better with slow io
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2021-05-15 12:39:05	bbert	rabbitmq  is just that a message queue... can use for inter process communication... sorry can you tell me what do you do with the data once it is downloaded?
2021-05-15 12:39:46	bbert	do you need to call another process / method to work on the data as a whole? ... e.g. do you scrape many sites... then somehow process the total result of many sites?
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2021-05-15 12:41:37	blackleitus	I want to scrape jobs based on profiles, and then apply a second job AI to avoid searching for jobs
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2021-05-15 12:41:53	blackleitus	so the script it will give me matched jobs based on my resume
2021-05-15 12:43:06	bbert	blackleitus, so you would be happy just filling up a directory with text files of job offers matching your CV?
2021-05-15 12:43:45	bbert	each job you download, you just check... hey does this match my cv?... if TRUE write to folder?
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2021-05-15 12:44:57	blackleitus	+bbert, exactly
2021-05-15 12:45:14	blackleitus	PDF + IMG + OCR + TEXT
2021-05-15 12:45:16	bbert	then your scraping jobs are independent... they dont need comparison or anything... I would just skip threads... and fire up many instances of your program...
2021-05-15 12:45:41	blackleitus	the scraper is the dataset to perform basic ML
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2021-05-15 12:47:01	bbert	hm.... ML on what?  what are you trying to make your program learn?  Do you tell the program hey... this one is good this one is bad... and the program learns how to match your CV?
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2021-05-15 12:47:48	bbert	blackleitus, btw... a fantastic program / service if you put it online :)
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2021-05-15 12:49:40	blackleitus	+bbert, I am so lazy xD to dig into multiples sites , and I code my boring stuff
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2021-05-15 12:50:33	blackleitus	+bbert, the ml is only to check out which jobs based on summary fits to your resume based on the TD/TF keyword frequency
2021-05-15 12:50:34	bbert	blackleitus, well take it in steps... dont try to do everything in one go... Im not convinced you need ML just yet... maybe you just need a list of keywords
2021-05-15 12:50:44	ChrisWarrick	Can someone tell me why this spam site is on Planet Python? https://www.pythonpool.com/convert-list-to-set-python/ is just so wrong, and they have more of those…
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2021-05-15 12:51:23	blackleitus	https://github.com/Remus-Hack-n-Roll-2019/job-matcher it is done already +bbert
2021-05-15 12:51:43	blackleitus	my project + this new from github fits to the right solution to put it online
2021-05-15 12:51:45	bbert	blackleitus, well this all sounds like you can just fire up many instances... but keeping a check if you already fetched something, dont refetch stuff.
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2021-05-15 12:52:14	bbert	blackleitus, you could hash the job description you download.... and use that as a file name in your directory
2021-05-15 12:52:24	blackleitus	maybe crawling indeed wasnt the right choice , but the api doesnt give me  more than 100 jobs
2021-05-15 12:52:32	bbert	blackleitus, hash the site URL for example
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2021-05-15 12:53:07	blackleitus	so massive job finder supported with AI = job finder that match correct jobs
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2021-05-15 12:55:15	bbert	blackleitus, hm... well ML normally means you are trying to learn from a human... what you think is great... I would not bother to make this hugely complicated though... just I would create keyword dictionary with scores and add up the scores... and keep tuning it
2021-05-15 12:55:46	bbert	scores = { 'c++': 5, 'python': 10, 'machine learning': 10 ....}
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2021-05-15 12:57:11	bbert	my 2 cents... also I dont have time to apply for 1000 jobs :) ... but you have a great idea to filter through stuff and pick the best.
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2021-05-15 12:58:24	bbert	just write a program that does this... downloads, checks keywords, adds up a score... save if score > some_number...
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2021-05-15 12:58:43	bbert	then run 5x of these in background if you want.
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2021-05-15 12:59:37	bbert	on linux / macos / bsd ... $ ./jobHunter.py & ./jobHunter.py & ./jobHunter.py & ./jobHunter.py & ...
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2021-05-15 13:01:43	bbert	heck... good idea to put negative scores too { 'fortran': -10, 'R': -50 ...
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2021-05-15 13:02:39	bbert	{ 'professor': -100, 'university': -100, 'research': -30 ...
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2021-05-15 13:15:22	blackleitus	+bbert, that's part of ML since translate to NLP
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2021-05-15 13:16:17	blackleitus	`NLP is a field in machine learning` < +bbert
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2021-05-15 13:17:13	bbert	blackleitus, NLP then allows you to compare the meaning / content of job advert with your CV for example?
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2021-05-15 13:17:56	blackleitus	exacttly NPL in this case is a keyword parser to match properly resumes to avoid workload from humans to search resumes
2021-05-15 13:18:12	bbert	just seems like an overkill... Im not in this field, but sometimes read up on it... e.g. NLG I have done... and very clear computer programs cant express meaning
2021-05-15 13:18:32	blackleitus	so we train descriptions , and resumes to match jobs
2021-05-15 13:18:57	bbert	blackleitus, but if you do have a NLP that works, and can somehow give you a score... then use it yes.
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2021-05-15 13:19:30	blackleitus	at the end . I can have a bot(employee) that search jobs for me , and gives me the right data
2021-05-15 13:19:42	bbert	in the end, whatever you do... doesnt seem like you need threads... if you dont want to use them... but threads are not hard in this case... but start simple
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2021-05-15 13:21:12	blackleitus	sure, I dont think threads since it's io so the most thread or speed in the wold it wont work since bureaucracy
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2021-05-15 13:21:13	bbert	and threads are super useful anyway in programming, so why not use them in the project :) ... no awaits syncing to do
2021-05-15 13:21:46	blackleitus	I will refactor to use asyncio so it's async
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2021-05-15 13:22:14	bbert	blackleitus, well... you can write 200MB/s to your disk... you probably have 1Gbit internet speed... and only os many jobs to scrape...
2021-05-15 13:22:17	bbert	*so
2021-05-15 13:22:53	blackleitus	sure . I will trying to remove a lot of for's into mor readable , and avoid duplicates due for
2021-05-15 13:22:57	bbert	your ISP or whatever is happening will probably speed up with many instances running or threads
2021-05-15 13:23:42	blackleitus	by the way. the new vs create `    def __init__(self) -> None:
2021-05-15 13:23:43	blackleitus	` is this a new format?
2021-05-15 13:23:46	bbert	+ you know VPN cricumvents whatever your ISP is doing to you
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2021-05-15 13:26:34	bbert	blackleitus, I dont use that... but it just returns None.
2021-05-15 13:26:53	bbert	it helps linters perhaps to see what you intend to return.
2021-05-15 13:27:10	bbert	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64933298/why-should-we-use-in-def-init-self-n-none
2021-05-15 13:28:03	bbert	but greater python experts here can answer.
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2021-05-15 13:28:29	bbert	Im not even sure when this feature was added.
2021-05-15 13:28:36	bbert	python 3+?
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2021-05-15 13:31:15	bbert	someone says it came in 3.5+  and it helps annotation only, and linters.
2021-05-15 13:31:43	bbert	when I try it... I can still return whatever i want in python shell.... so it has no impact.
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2021-05-15 13:34:53	bbert	blackleitus, it doesnt actually return anything... its not some default, never used it myself.
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2021-05-15 13:35:28	bbert	blackleitus, just try   def foo() -> "bla": pass
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2021-05-15 13:36:11	blackleitus	when I see code like that. I think python becomes in C/C++
2021-05-15 13:36:27	graingert	it's 3.0 I think
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2021-05-15 13:36:34	bbert	blackleitus, linters and mypy probably use it
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2021-05-15 13:37:00	graingert	mypy uses it
2021-05-15 13:37:14	bbert	its like JS and Typescript except python syntax condones it
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2021-05-15 13:37:27	blackleitus	how do I access to dict values without .value()
2021-05-15 13:37:30	graingert	you don't need the `-> None:` if you have any other typed arguments on an `def __init__(self, etc: Etc): ...`
2021-05-15 13:37:35	graingert	blackleitus: .items() ?
2021-05-15 13:38:25	bbert	blackleitus, all the values or loop through it?
2021-05-15 13:38:41	bbert	for x in myDict: print( myDict[x] )
2021-05-15 13:38:55	graingert	what's wrong with `.values()`?
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2021-05-15 13:39:17	blackleitus	https://dpaste.org/iEcq
2021-05-15 13:39:28	bbert	graingert, nah its kewl too... depends though,  few ways to loop dict
2021-05-15 13:39:45	blackleitus	I need to return each cities to place it in another loop cities
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2021-05-15 13:42:05	blackleitus	https://github.com/SkyBulk/hunter/blob/master/hunter.py#L89
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2021-05-15 13:42:22	blackleitus	I need to create a single value list containg all cities
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2021-05-15 13:43:21	bbert	blackleitus, a list with unique values is called a set in python
2021-05-15 13:44:11	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Fpb1Gcgd/crawl.py
2021-05-15 13:44:17	graingert	blackleitus: like this?
2021-05-15 13:44:27	bbert	blackleitus, create a allCities=set()... loop through all your cities... and call allCities.add( city )
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2021-05-15 13:44:50	blackleitus	instead of having separate lists I need a list of cities a single one than having UA: cities, UK: cities
2021-05-15 13:44:51	bbert	it will only add new city if its a unique city name
2021-05-15 13:45:18	bbert	right... just loop
2021-05-15 13:45:58	bbert	for reg in regions:  for city in reg:  citySet.add(city) ...
2021-05-15 13:46:01	bbert	something like that
2021-05-15 13:46:06	bbert	try it in a python terminal
2021-05-15 13:47:16	bbert	a = [1,2,3,1,1,1];  s = set();  for x in a: s.add(x);  print(s)
2021-05-15 13:47:18	blackleitus	I need some kind of zip all dict values into a single list
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2021-05-15 13:48:35	bbert	blackleitus, ... with dicts you can get list of keys()  or list of values()
2021-05-15 13:48:49	bbert	just call myDict.values() ... you will get all values
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2021-05-15 13:49:12	bbert	if you want them unique values... throw them into a set   ... set( myDict.values() )
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2021-05-15 13:50:09	bbert	blackleitus, try playing around with dicts and list and sets in a shell... it helps you do understand how this works...
2021-05-15 13:50:35	blackleitus	sure, but `values` doesnt join them
2021-05-15 13:50:42	bbert	blackleitus, learn how to loop lists and dicts   before programming... these are like the most elementary data structures.
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2021-05-15 13:52:18	bbert	blackleitus, loop key and value in dict like this...   for k, v in d.items(): print(k,v)
2021-05-15 13:52:38	bbert	blackleitus, or just get the key value pairs... keyValPairs = myDict.items()
2021-05-15 13:53:27	blackleitus	sure, but having to use items . translate to two loops one for values , and another for cities
2021-05-15 13:53:37	blackleitus	can I translate this into a single loop merging all values?
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2021-05-15 13:55:23	bbert	ok you have something like  {'US': [city1, city2, city3...], 'UK': [....], ...}
2021-05-15 13:56:45	bbert	cities = [];  for reg in regionCities: cities += regionsCities[reg];
2021-05-15 13:57:29	redsh	cities = [city for cc, cities in d.items() for city in cities]
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2021-05-15 13:58:01	bbert	yup... something like that too.
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2021-05-15 14:01:37	blackleitus	            c = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(zip(self.cities[city]))) # better.
2021-05-15 14:01:38	blackleitus	I did this
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2021-05-15 14:02:34	blackleitus	it should be in a single list https://dpaste.org/QofY#L61
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2021-05-15 14:28:52	mst	ops around? (sorry)
2021-05-15 14:29:12	nedbat	mst: #python-ops
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2021-05-15 14:44:03	Pickchea	Hey, I want to select a subset of a series by label. These options seem equivalent but which one is better style? `ser.loc[['a', 'b']]` or `ser.loc(axis=0)['a', 'b']`?
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2021-05-15 14:53:02	p0a	how can I parse - with argparse?
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2021-05-15 14:53:20	p0a	things like `cat -', which read from stdin
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2021-05-15 14:54:51	oprypin	p0a, https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html#argparse.FileType   literally searched for  '-'  on the page
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2021-05-15 14:57:27	ChrisWarrick	searching for - without the quotes wouldn’t be very productive, and what if the page had used double quotes?
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2021-05-15 14:59:19	BrenBarn	then you could search for double quotes too
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2021-05-15 14:59:23	p0a	That was a good trick, to assume that there would be an example that contains '-' or "-", it did not occur to me.
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2021-05-15 15:06:18	brizz	i was processing a very large list of data.  there was an error that interrupted the script (It was processing for over 20+hours).  Is there anyway I can resume at the spot it left off?  I know a string that it stopped at.  I'm just unsure how to do a for line in file, ...with an if--but still continue processing after finding the spot
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2021-05-15 15:06:48	_habnabit	brizz, is the processing stateless?
2021-05-15 15:07:01	brizz	not sure what that means
2021-05-15 15:07:09	brizz	probably tho, ha
2021-05-15 15:07:09	_habnabit	brizz, does it require knowledge of previous lines?
2021-05-15 15:07:18	brizz	no it doesnt
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2021-05-15 15:07:25	_habnabit	brizz, ok, then it's stateless
2021-05-15 15:07:31	_habnabit	brizz, do you know about the `continue` statement
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2021-05-15 15:07:55	brizz	yes, ive tried doing that in my ide, and it shows that it wont continue on to the rest of my code
2021-05-15 15:08:02	redsh	Add a cheeky little fd.seek(position), where position is the byte offset to where you want to go to.
2021-05-15 15:08:18	_habnabit	brizz, huh? can you show us the code?
2021-05-15 15:08:22	brizz	i was going to do an if data === 'my string': ...break, else: continue
2021-05-15 15:08:49	_habnabit	brizz, `else: continue` is quite silly. just do `if not whatever: continue` and you don't need to add static nesting
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2021-05-15 15:09:36	brizz	so how would i do it with continue?  was I thinking right with the if statement?
2021-05-15 15:09:37	redsh	_habnabit: Static nesting?
2021-05-15 15:09:52	_habnabit	redsh, anything that requires indenting a code block
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2021-05-15 15:10:02	_habnabit	brizz, `if not whatever: continue` at the top of your loop
2021-05-15 15:12:07	brizz	that still continues processing the rest of my for loop--I dont want it to do that.  I want it to skip processing (its database entries, but its 20hrs of it)
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2021-05-15 15:13:35	brizz	wait maybe not
2021-05-15 15:13:47	altendky	is there such a thing as a locale that will give you iso-8601 formatted dates?  for %c or such.
2021-05-15 15:13:49	brizz	i didnt put if not 'string' in f.  forgot in f
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2021-05-15 15:15:01	_habnabit	brizz, `if 'string' not in f:`
2021-05-15 15:15:06	_habnabit	brizz, so, problem solved?
2021-05-15 15:15:16	brizz	yea its not doing what i want yet
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2021-05-15 15:15:22	_habnabit	brizz, so show us the code
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2021-05-15 15:16:20	_habnabit	brizz, it's easier for us to point out the problem than enumerate the infinite number of ways you could've made a mistake ;)
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2021-05-15 15:18:03	brizz	https://bpa.st/JRNQ
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2021-05-15 15:18:53	brizz	it just sits there.  i think maybe because its end of chunk? i dont know
2021-05-15 15:19:05	brizz	it does print chunk for a little bit, then stops
2021-05-15 15:19:06	_habnabit	brizz, you are exhausting the iterator on L14
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2021-05-15 15:19:56	_habnabit	brizz, the if..continue should be inside the inner loop. maybe you meant `if 'user@domain.com' not in line:`
2021-05-15 15:20:05	brizz	i know what that means, (im pretty sure), butI dont know why
2021-05-15 15:20:21	_habnabit	brizz, i don't know why you're doing `in f` at all
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2021-05-15 15:20:39	brizz	welll i didnt at first, and said it wasnt working
2021-05-15 15:20:49	brizz	then i said, oh nevermind, and thats when i tried in f
2021-05-15 15:21:03	_habnabit	brizz, ok. but why `in f` and not `in line` ?
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2021-05-15 15:22:25	brizz	you mean why dont i do readline?
2021-05-15 15:22:39	_habnabit	brizz, no, i meant what i said
2021-05-15 15:22:42	brizz	i haven't defined 'line' yet I dont think, so thats why its in f
2021-05-15 15:22:56	_habnabit	brizz, yes, that's why i said you should move the if
2021-05-15 15:23:07	brizz	doing that now
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2021-05-15 15:23:55	brizz	side question
2021-05-15 15:24:11	brizz	is if not user@domain in line the same as if user@domain not in line
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2021-05-15 15:24:22	_habnabit	brizz, yes, but the latter reads much better
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2021-05-15 15:25:46	brizz	doing this now https://bpa.st/43JQ
2021-05-15 15:25:57	brizz	same result, it prints some chunks then stops
2021-05-15 15:26:28	_habnabit	brizz, ok, and what part of that is unexpected?
2021-05-15 15:26:48	brizz	nvm
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2021-05-15 15:26:53	brizz	im dumb
2021-05-15 15:26:55	brizz	didnt save
2021-05-15 15:27:07	brizz	well nvm
2021-05-15 15:27:08	brizz	again
2021-05-15 15:27:16	_habnabit	brizz, ..?
2021-05-15 15:28:41	brizz	im going to mess with it.  i thought it wasn't continuing (testing w/print)--but I think it is. ..also i think script finished but it happened much sooner than expected
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2021-05-15 15:29:37	_habnabit	brizz, ok. well, do you understand what the difference is between what you had before and what i suggested?
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2021-05-15 15:30:39	teut	https://dpaste.org/Od1Z#L10
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2021-05-15 15:31:19	teut	I want the user to type some equation in terms of  "w"  , but I do not want him to write   w = sm.symbols("omega") outside
2021-05-15 15:31:35	teut	whats the way to do that?
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2021-05-15 15:32:50	teut	ComplexNum.w  just stuck me but that is too long to write
2021-05-15 15:32:55	teut	struck*
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2021-05-15 15:33:14	brizz	is what you are saying different than the new code?
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2021-05-15 15:33:25	brizz	i understand now that it needs to be in inner loop
2021-05-15 15:33:27	_habnabit	brizz, https://bpa.st/43JQ is fine
2021-05-15 15:34:20	brizz	it is running now.  I had thought before of doing this...but for some reason I have a hard time thinking through what would happen once the if statement works.  i feel like it would mess up for subsequent loops through the for
2021-05-15 15:34:35	brizz	i don't know why, and dont really know how to explain
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2021-05-15 15:35:17	_habnabit	brizz, this is why i asked if it's stateful or not. the only way that there could be any interference is if processing depended on an earlier iteration of the loop
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2021-05-15 15:37:08	brizz	so if is only triggered once
2021-05-15 15:37:24	brizz	and each iteration of loop is "new", right?
2021-05-15 15:37:44	_habnabit	brizz, i'm not sure what you mean by 'once'. you reach the if on every iteration of the loop
2021-05-15 15:38:24	brizz	once it hits that line tho, i want it to go past the if statement, thats the goal
2021-05-15 15:38:40	brizz	or once it hits "user@domain.com"
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2021-05-15 15:39:12	_habnabit	brizz, yes, that's how control flow works. if you didn't `continue` to jump to the next iteration, control flow will resume after the if inside the loop
2021-05-15 15:39:34	brizz	it did finish, and either its the last line or it doesnt work
2021-05-15 15:39:44	_habnabit	brizz, "it doesn't work"?
2021-05-15 15:39:46	brizz	ill tail data file
2021-05-15 15:39:53	<--	Seirdy (~Seirdy@206.217.205.65) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-15 15:39:54	brizz	ill paste result
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2021-05-15 15:40:59	brizz	either way, its progress, ha.  it would ahve taken me almost a day to reach what just happened
2021-05-15 15:41:02	brizz	https://bpa.st/OWYQ
2021-05-15 15:41:25	brizz	thats what i expected...duplicate entry.  ...but there aren't subsequent entries, script stops
2021-05-15 15:41:47	_habnabit	brizz, i'm not sure what you're saying you expected to happen
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2021-05-15 15:42:48	rond_	is it possible to provide a type for a variable declaration?
2021-05-15 15:42:56	_habnabit	rond_, `x: y = z`
2021-05-15 15:42:57	rond_	(not only to function parameters?)
2021-05-15 15:43:14	_habnabit	rond_, only in 3.7+
2021-05-15 15:43:26	brizz	it doesnt appear to be end of file
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2021-05-15 15:43:36	rond_	_habnabit interesting, thanks!
2021-05-15 15:43:49	brizz	i want it to continue processing what is past the if statement (which is inserting into database queries)
2021-05-15 15:44:16	_habnabit	brizz, so, is what you're saying that you think the `continue` is halting the whole program?
2021-05-15 15:45:04	brizz	i think its ending it ..yea, thats what it looks like.   (the program does end when there is no more data to process)
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2021-05-15 15:45:16	brizz	running it again to confirm
2021-05-15 15:45:27	brizz	well wait
2021-05-15 15:45:34	brizz	i see it running now and it hit the line
2021-05-15 15:45:39	_habnabit	brizz, ok. well, there's an easy way to test that: add more prints. put one in the `if` before the `continue`; on.. problem solved?
2021-05-15 15:46:08	brizz	yea, really appreciate the help, this will have saved me a lot of time and I've learned something
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2021-05-15 15:46:53	_habnabit	brizz, adding a print is an easy way to demonstrate to yourself or someone else what the exact control flow is
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2021-05-15 15:47:13	Sir_Andrei	Hi
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2021-05-15 15:47:36	Sir_Andrei	People, I need to do a category table in pandas
2021-05-15 15:47:56	_habnabit	brizz, if you think that `continue` is ending your program early, it's easy to prove that it isn't by adding more prints
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2021-05-15 15:48:09	Sir_Andrei	Like, I have a table with columns, Value, Category. And I want a column for each category. And if the value is identified with that category, I need a binary value for that.
2021-05-15 15:48:32	Sir_Andrei	Columns will end up being something like Value, Category1... Category2... CategoryN.
2021-05-15 15:48:48	Sir_Andrei	Do someone knows an easy and straighforward way to do that with pandas itself?
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2021-05-15 15:56:02	brizz	so i printed the result.  thats the programming running to completion.  it only prints that one line.  after the if statement there would be duplicate data, and the program errored out trying to handle that data--it doesn't do that, so I dont think it is going past the if statement EXCEPT for user@domain.com
2021-05-15 15:56:05	brizz	https://bpa.st/3S5A
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2021-05-15 15:57:01	brizz	line 7 on..it will only be processed if that email address (oops) (user@domain.com) is found
2021-05-15 15:57:24	brizz	by processed i mean line 7 reached
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2021-05-15 15:58:51	brizz	i basically want the if statement to be there until it triggers once, then i want it to disappear
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2021-05-15 16:00:01	brizz	which i guess gives me an idea
2021-05-15 16:00:02	blackleitus	how do I deal with multiples jobs names with different url?
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2021-05-15 16:01:38	Peyam	Why can't you say a = b if True else pass?
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2021-05-15 16:01:58	ChrisWarrick	blackleitus: is it really a python question?
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2021-05-15 16:02:11	Peyam	because then you cant assign a
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2021-05-15 16:02:44	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: the expression is a = (_ if _ else _), the `if` doesn’t have control over the assignment
2021-05-15 16:02:57	Peyam	exactly
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2021-05-15 16:03:19	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: maybe-existing variables are a bad idea; if `a` already has a value, you can say `a = b if True else a`
2021-05-15 16:03:22	redsh	Peyam: Because pass is not an expression, it's a statement.
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2021-05-15 16:03:55	adder	this doesn't make much sense
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2021-05-15 16:05:10	blackleitus	+ChrisWarrick, I am coding a crawler that scan resume , and returns all matched jobs from your resume
2021-05-15 16:05:11	ChrisWarrick	blackleitus: perhaps you could just identify jobs by URL. Perhaps you could have some other mechanism to consider the pair (position name, company name) as the same job. That’s not something #Python can really help with though — it’s up to you to decide what’s best for your data.
2021-05-15 16:06:07	blackleitus	example HR publish the same job across multiples urls , sites, so duplicates seems to be a problem
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2021-05-15 16:06:48	blackleitus	at least if I validate job title with description in strict mode
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2021-05-15 16:08:24	Peyam	Are all python programmers working with back end development??
2021-05-15 16:08:51	summonner	not all
2021-05-15 16:09:01	ChrisWarrick	blackleitus: #python can’t help you design your job-seeking system. (But I can provide useful advice: don’t automate job searching, that can backfire quite easily if you don’t look into the companies you send applications to.)
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2021-05-15 16:10:43	summonner	Peyam, I wrote a website for a company the other day. HTML+CSS+Python, no Javascript involved
2021-05-15 16:11:12	blackleitus	+ChrisWarrick, I am not sending job applications , but if I can automate the process of finding jobs . it is a super awesome system that search jobs based on my resume , and my brain to perform ML
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2021-05-15 16:11:38	blackleitus	so basically my script becomes into my employeer
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2021-05-15 16:11:42	blackleitus	employee*
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2021-05-15 16:12:10	Peyam	summonner, so web application
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2021-05-15 16:13:18	ChrisWarrick	Peyam: web stuff is one of the areas in which python excels, the other one would be data science and such
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2021-05-15 16:13:34	Peyam	yeah
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2021-05-15 16:15:02	summonner	Peyam, done DB query and extract data into report for different departments. done automated uploading of OTC trades to regulatory watchdog from traders working out of excel (Flask interface). Done python fuzzy matching on duplicated data (lost an employee from that; services no longer required)
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2021-05-15 16:15:32	Peyam	summonner, awesome.
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2021-05-15 16:16:37	summonner	one of the corporate-changing scripts I wrote was to change a 90+ minute perl script (often it ran for 2 or 3 hours)
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2021-05-15 16:17:10	summonner	into a 9-second python script. would hit hundreds of servers worldwide. after that, Python was finally taken seriously by management
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2021-05-15 16:18:16	summonner	"corporate culture" I mean. huge company, 200,000 employees worldwide
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2021-05-15 16:19:00	summonner	but the biggest aspect of Python which I talk about -
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2021-05-15 16:19:30	summonner	is the ability to prototype so quickly. You have a working product (complex working product) in 3 months, which would take a year in C# to dev
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2021-05-15 16:21:47	squirrel	the last part is a bit surprising. i have no experience in c# but a year vs 3 months?
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2021-05-15 16:22:17	summonner	corporate dev
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2021-05-15 16:22:42	rond_	summonner prototyping - sure. but when python becomes the core language - that's a sign of an approaching disaster
2021-05-15 16:22:46	squirrel	what does that mean?
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2021-05-15 16:23:23	summonner	I know it seems strange, but those numbers aren't crazy "at the end of the day". Most corporates I've worked in keep plugging away at a project and when they need to ask for more budget don't have anything to show for it... yet
2021-05-15 16:23:25	cowona	spacex software engineers did an AMA on reddit today and they use python for a lot of things (not flight control, obviously): https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/ncj4vz/we_are_the_spacex_software_team_ask_us_anything/gy5bpvp/
2021-05-15 16:23:56	cowona	thought it was cool
2021-05-15 16:24:23	summonner	rond_, well, that depends on the business and the customer requirements yeah?
2021-05-15 16:24:52	Sir_Andrei	Hmm, is called One hot encoding. I found somethin in Google about it C:
2021-05-15 16:25:27	rond_	summonner I'm talking from the dev perspective
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2021-05-15 16:25:43	summonner	if you're talking real-time airline from 10,000+ items feedback into a TACAS system for a commercial airliner, or more for a fire-control system on an F-16 doing a ground-bombing run... then you want something as close to the cpu as possible
2021-05-15 16:25:58	rond_	but Python has improved - with typing module I can live with more than 40 lines of code in it :)
2021-05-15 16:26:07	yeticheese	I think python definitely is strictly fewer lines of code for the same functionality in general, but yeah it's also easy to get into a false sense of security with it, meaning if you don't anticipate that past a certain scale you may need something else then you can have architectural holes and things that make it ridiculously expensive to move off of it
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2021-05-15 16:26:38	yeticheese	or may i.e. the more rapidly you prototype the slower you stabilize and scale sometimes
2021-05-15 16:26:41	summonner	i'm saying proof of concept
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2021-05-15 16:26:44	Peyam	what is the best way of dividing a list of the size of 5*n to n lists?
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2021-05-15 16:27:11	summonner	if you can demo to a VC your app or idea you're already ahead of the crowd and likely to get several rounds of funding
2021-05-15 16:27:18	squirrel	are you comparing proof of concept python projects vs properly made c# projects?
2021-05-15 16:27:36	yeticheese	yeah for proof of concept at that stage it's undeniably good
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2021-05-15 16:28:12	rond_	Peyam use slicing and list comprehension
2021-05-15 16:28:20	yeticheese	it's just also too easy to fall into the trap of sticking with many parts of your POC when you build it for real, i.e. a lot of people might have something from their original POC like 7 years down the line
2021-05-15 16:28:29	yeticheese	have seen that kinda stuff a few times
2021-05-15 16:28:34	hendursaga	What would be an easy way to enter into a debugger when I hit Ctrl-C/send SIGINT?
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2021-05-15 16:28:54	yeticheese	so some caution is needed basically
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2021-05-15 16:30:39	summonner	never forget the lesson of the 737-MAX. Developers killed those people
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2021-05-15 16:30:53	p0a	hendursaga: capture SIGINT and call breakpoint() ?
2021-05-15 16:31:26	BtbN	It's more like super rushed product development. They made software to correct for flawed design. And the software was flawed as well.
2021-05-15 16:31:43	BtbN	Don't do that when you're making stuff that can kill people.
2021-05-15 16:31:45	Peyam	rond_, can you give me an example?
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2021-05-15 16:32:24	ChrisWarrick	summonner: developers didn’t decide to produce a plane pretending to be a 737 that really wasn’t
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2021-05-15 16:32:38	hendursaga	p0a: But then what? Wouldn't it exit the program once I stepped through?
2021-05-15 16:32:57	summonner	The NTSB highlighted many instances where emails pointed out the devs knew they were doing the wrong thing but no one stepped up.
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2021-05-15 16:33:20	summonner	ChrisWarrick, you mean in the sense that they moved the engines forward and no longer had an unpowered glider?
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2021-05-15 16:34:25	ChrisWarrick	summonner: yes, that’s not a software developer decision
2021-05-15 16:34:27	p0a	hendursaga: why?
2021-05-15 16:34:28	rond_	Peyam something like  ` [L[5*i : 5*i+5] for i in range(len(L)//5)] ` assuimg that `len(L) % 5 == 0`
2021-05-15 16:34:39	summonner	ChrisWarrick, I heard ya...  this is not an unknown problem, prop-planes loading cargo have to deal with this issue all the time
2021-05-15 16:35:23	blackleitus	how do I merge all results from a queue after complete?
2021-05-15 16:35:41	p0a	hendursaga: https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html#signal.signal
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2021-05-15 16:36:23	eia1x	Hi! I'd like to fill a column (status) with random 0 or 1, with only 10% of ones. Is there another way to do it (I've tried this: https://bpa.st/BTYA)?
2021-05-15 16:36:24	hendursaga	p0a: Hmmm, I thought SIGINT was more commanding, OK..
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2021-05-15 16:39:03	rond_	Peyam  ` [L[5*i : 5*i+5] for i in range(len(L)/+/5)] `
2021-05-15 16:39:35	rond_	Peyam  ` [L[5*i : 5*i+5] for i in range(len(L)+4//5)] `  and you'd have all of the elements, perhaps with the shorter list at the end if `len(L) % 5 != 0`
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2021-05-15 16:40:26	brizz	@_habnabit are you around?
2021-05-15 16:41:00	brizz	i had idea to do f.tell() when i reached line, and then just edit file again and do f.seek()
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2021-05-15 16:41:33	brizz	gettingn the error OSError: telling position disabled by next() call,---and i DID remove the chunked iterable part (after seeing error the first time)
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2021-05-15 16:42:15	brizz	so its just a for loop, why am I getting the error/is there anything I can do to fix/bypass to get what im wanting to do
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2021-05-15 16:48:40	c0mrade	Can I convert this C++ code https://imgur.com/a/qmsgIqI to Python using a for loop? As I don't know how would I represent x*x <=n in the range.
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2021-05-15 16:51:06	squirrel	c0mrade: why not x <= sqrt(n)
2021-05-15 16:51:16	cowona	you would probably want a while for that
2021-05-15 16:51:35	c0mrade	A while would work, but can this be interpreted as a for loop?
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2021-05-15 16:52:44	BtbN	It is a for loop? Or what do you mean?
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2021-05-15 16:57:02	c0mrade	I want to convert above code to python and use a for loop for python not while loop is that possible?
2021-05-15 16:57:25	BtbN	Why?
2021-05-15 16:57:45	BtbN	Pythons for loop works fundamentally different than in C.
2021-05-15 16:57:57	BtbN	It's just a while with some syntax sugar there
2021-05-15 16:58:00	c0mrade	Because I code in python, and I want compute the Big-O time complexity, it'll be easier for me.
2021-05-15 16:58:17	c0mrade	Yeah I know, can we hack python and make a for loop similar to that one?
2021-05-15 16:58:18	BtbN	?
2021-05-15 16:58:21	BtbN	no
2021-05-15 16:58:46	c0mrade	What would it look like using a while loop?
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2021-05-15 16:59:16	BtbN	Pretty much the same as that for loop in C
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2021-05-15 16:59:29	BtbN	You just don't have initialization and step-increment in one line
2021-05-15 16:59:55	c0mrade	This confuses me.
2021-05-15 17:00:04	supakeen	`for _ in itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x*x < 10, itertools.count())`
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2021-05-15 17:00:50	c0mrade	Wait  c0mrade: why not x <= sqrt(n)
2021-05-15 17:00:58	BtbN	sqrt is dirt slow
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2021-05-15 17:01:17	c0mrade	for i in range(2, sqrt(n+1)):
2021-05-15 17:01:21	c0mrade	Isn't that the same?
2021-05-15 17:01:28	BtbN	range to a non-integer?
2021-05-15 17:02:36	c0mrade	for i in range(2, int(sqrt(n+1))):
2021-05-15 17:02:38	c0mrade	hh
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2021-05-15 17:03:11	c0mrade	But yeah it seems that, using sqrt will yield different results no?
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2021-05-15 17:06:57	c0mrade	WOuld that sqrt approach be write?
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2021-05-15 17:11:25	ChrisWarrick	c0mrade: right*, yes, sqrt is a valid way to optimize prime checking (by division)
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2021-05-15 17:12:07	ChrisWarrick	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5811151/why-do-we-check-up-to-the-square-root-of-a-prime-number-to-determine-if-it-is-pr
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2021-05-15 17:13:30	jarthur	BTW if performance is a concern, I recommend isqrt(n+1) instead of int(sqrt(n+1))
2021-05-15 17:13:55	jarthur	Should be about twice as fast
2021-05-15 17:14:31	brizz	is there a way to start processing at a certain line (not w/seek...go to a line number)
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2021-05-15 17:16:14	jarthur	brizz iterating and ignoring until you reach the target line is the only way I know. The OS is unlikely to have any shortcut tricks a specialized Python syntax could use to get there any faster
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2021-05-15 17:20:22	bjs	c0mrade: incrementing x until x*x <= n is the same as incrementing x until x <= sqrt(n). C/C++ "for" loops are probably closer to Python "while" loops
2021-05-15 17:20:51	c0mrade	Yeah I just wrote the Python equivalent but using while.
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2021-05-15 17:21:07	c0mrade	Now checking what's the Big-O notation of it, like the Time Complexity.
2021-05-15 17:21:15	blackleitus	I have a question. I need to merge all responses from each clients sent to manager , but based on this SO answer , and my code https://stackoverflow.com/a/63965617/15757438 , I need to do it in consumer https://gist.github.com/SkyBulk/0dd86a82262039e2a001d610a15c7187#file-async_sample-py-L45
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2021-05-15 17:23:31	jarthur	brizz    for line in islice(file, n, None): …    might a nice syntactical way to make that jump, btw.  https://docs.python.org/3/library/itertools.html#itertools.islice
2021-05-15 17:24:15	jarthur	Where n is the line you want to start on
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2021-05-15 17:35:57	c0mrade	Damn it, I can't figure out the time complexity in terms of Big-O notation for this prime function as it looks random to me on the number it iterates....Any ideas?
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2021-05-15 17:39:33	Habbie	c0mrade, why would it be random if the increment is 1?
2021-05-15 17:39:52	c0mrade	Habbie: What's the time complexit of it in Big-O then?
2021-05-15 17:40:07	c0mrade	complexity*
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2021-05-15 17:40:17	_habnabit	c0mrade, of what?
2021-05-15 17:40:32	Habbie	yes, do let's be clear of what exactly - all i looked at was your screenshot of C code
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2021-05-15 17:41:35	c0mrade	It's a function that takes a number n as input and returns a boolean (true if its a prime number and false if not) https://pastebin.com/7tqDkz9q
2021-05-15 17:41:36	infobob	https://bpaste.net/MTNQ (repasted for c0mrade)
2021-05-15 17:41:55	Habbie	c0mrade, ok, so, let's figure this out
2021-05-15 17:42:15	Habbie	for a given n, the body of the while loop runs how many times?
2021-05-15 17:42:44	c0mrade	Habbie, well isn't it random?
2021-05-15 17:42:51	Habbie	ah
2021-05-15 17:42:51	c0mrade	Or there's a certain sequence?
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2021-05-15 17:42:54	c0mrade	I don't know.
2021-05-15 17:42:56	Habbie	it's not random, of course
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2021-05-15 17:43:01	Habbie	but it certainly is bounded
2021-05-15 17:43:25	c0mrade	How can I deduce how many times? Like bring a paper and pen and just see what's going on?
2021-05-15 17:43:57	Habbie	yes
2021-05-15 17:44:02	Habbie	it is a pen and paper exercise
2021-05-15 17:44:05	c0mrade	Like for n = 13 it runs 2 times but for n = 56 ?
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2021-05-15 17:44:17	Habbie	because 13 is prime
2021-05-15 17:44:29	Habbie	and 4 squared is bigger than 13
2021-05-15 17:44:30	Habbie	i see that
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2021-05-15 17:44:41	c0mrade	That's not the point.
2021-05-15 17:44:59	c0mrade	I need to know the correlation between n and the number of times the while block is computing
2021-05-15 17:45:03	c0mrade	to come up with Big-O
2021-05-15 17:45:17	p0a	loop breaks when x*x > n. x is incremented by 1. that means the complexity is O(sqrt(n))
2021-05-15 17:45:42	Habbie	p0a, O(sqrt(n)) multiplied by the per-iteration cost
2021-05-15 17:45:50	p0a	Yeah I did not account for that :)
2021-05-15 17:45:52	Habbie	x*x is not free; n%x is not free
2021-05-15 17:46:01	Habbie	but you've done the first step that i tried to get c0mrade to do :)
2021-05-15 17:46:30	c0mrade	x*x is not free? n%x is not free? Wait these are just constants and we drop them no?
2021-05-15 17:46:37	Habbie	how could they be constants?
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2021-05-15 17:46:59	Habbie	multiplication is expensive; modulo (hidden under the blanket of division) is even more expensive
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2021-05-15 17:47:14	c0mrade	in Big-O we don't care about these.
2021-05-15 17:47:19	_habnabit	c0mrade, _coefficients_ drop out in big-O notation
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2021-05-15 17:47:31	_habnabit	c0mrade, you're mistaking arithmetic for asymptotic analysis
2021-05-15 17:47:37	Habbie	c0mrade, can you please give your short definition of big-O?
2021-05-15 17:47:55	nedbat	it's interesting to watch this discussion happen in two places at once...
2021-05-15 17:48:00	Habbie	nedbat, same person?
2021-05-15 17:48:01	_habnabit	nedbat, .. two?
2021-05-15 17:48:08	nedbat	also Python Discord :)
2021-05-15 17:48:11	Habbie	ok
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2021-05-15 17:48:19	Habbie	then i'm quitting, i'm not dealing with that kind of rudeness
2021-05-15 17:48:19	_habnabit	is it the same person?
2021-05-15 17:48:37	nedbat	how is that rude?
2021-05-15 17:48:44	c0mrade	Habbie, in my definition it is how effecient an algorithm is. So
2021-05-15 17:49:02	_habnabit	nedbat, haven't we had this discussion about crossposting before?
2021-05-15 17:49:09	Habbie	nedbat, because people might spend time not seeing that in another place the same time and effort is spent by somebody else
2021-05-15 17:49:16	p0a	nedbat: overuse of community resources
2021-05-15 17:49:23	Habbie	that
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2021-05-15 17:50:25	c0mrade	Habbie, so Big-O is an how is the run time of an algo affected depending on its input,
2021-05-15 17:50:27	nedbat	i can see it's touched a nerve.  I doubt the community is low on resources. I won't mention it again.
2021-05-15 17:51:03	Habbie	is it, in the other place, the same user?
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2021-05-15 17:52:25	c0mrade	Habbie, yeah I am on Discord not on IRC on the other place though. Also I have two mointors. One monitor for IRC and the other for discord. One of my eyes is looking on IRC and the other on Discord.
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2021-05-15 17:52:44	Habbie	c0mrade, and you're having a discussion about the same topic on the Discord, getting some help there too?
2021-05-15 17:52:57	nedbat	Habbie: yes, you can stop talking if you want to.
2021-05-15 17:53:03	graingert	in Discord they're talking about python
2021-05-15 17:53:18	graingert	here everyone is fighting about a discussion in discord
2021-05-15 17:53:37	c0mrade	lol
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2021-05-15 17:54:32	c0mrade	I can't believe that I met the Big-O guy.
2021-05-15 17:54:34	c0mrade	O.O
2021-05-15 17:54:45	nedbat	c0mrade: sorry i seem to have stirred something up here.
2021-05-15 17:55:19	c0mrade	nedbat, I still can't believe it's you.... LOL, the guy that I watched.
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2021-05-15 17:55:30	c0mrade	One of the most interesting vids,
2021-05-15 17:55:40	Habbie	nedbat, you've made us aware of c0mrade misconduct
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2021-05-15 17:55:59	c0mrade	I can't believe how good you presented this.
2021-05-15 17:56:08	c0mrade	Presentation skills on the next level.
2021-05-15 17:56:28	nedbat	Habbie: we can disagree about whether this is misconduct. You can choose whether you want to participate in the discussion.
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2021-05-15 17:56:51	nedbat	c0mrade: you're very kind
2021-05-15 17:56:56	c0mrade	I can't think of myself, like getting on stage and presenting this and in a fun way and talk freely about it. The guy with the jars picture, damn that illustration was awesome.
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2021-05-15 17:57:46	graingert	the guy with the jar...?!
2021-05-15 17:57:56	c0mrade	Yeah.
2021-05-15 17:58:07	c0mrade	Well he knows what am talking about lol.
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2021-05-15 17:58:38	c0mrade	I liked the analogy. Like constant time is just simply buy the jars with labels on them.
2021-05-15 17:58:39	c0mrade	Done.
2021-05-15 17:59:06	Habbie	nedbat, agreed on both. I've made a choice.
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2021-05-15 17:59:09	graingert	like commons-io.2.8.0.jar?
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2021-05-15 17:59:29	c0mrade	Nope.
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2021-05-15 17:59:53	nedbat	graingert: https://nedbatchelder.com/text/bigo_pix/004.png
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2021-05-15 18:00:52	c0mrade	Yeah with the eyebrows looking like beans too.
2021-05-15 18:00:55	c0mrade	OMG. I love this.
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2021-05-15 18:03:40	nedbat	c0mrade: the key question for your function: if n were made 10 times larger, how much longer would the function likely take?
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2021-05-15 18:04:46	c0mrade	nedbat, with that prime function it's bending my mind. I am use to seeing easy things, like O(N) and O(N^2) and even understand O(log N), but this prime function. Dude, I can't understand it.
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2021-05-15 18:05:39	nedbat	c0mrade: the tricky part here is that you don't know how quickly it might find a divisor. I guess I would think about how long it take if the number is prime: it's proportional to sqrt(n)
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2021-05-15 18:06:08	c0mrade	nedbat, to answer your question... I mean how would I deduce that? In my thinking, I draw a large graph, put n = 15, x = 4 and then run step by step, do the same for n = 16 and put the results side by side and see how it grows, then try to find a sequence, but that's a lot of work.
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2021-05-15 18:06:41	nedbat	c0mrade: you can read the code to see how long the loop is
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2021-05-15 18:08:53	c0mrade	A lotta moving parts there. I mean yeah it'll keep executing as long as x*x <=n
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2021-05-15 18:11:37	nedbat	c0mrade: right, so if n is 10x larger, in the worst case, it will take sqrt(10) times longer
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2021-05-15 18:13:15	c0mrade	And. [00:47] <_habnabit> c0mrade, you're mistaking arithmetic for asymptotic analysis I don't know if x*x and the modulu have to be included into the Big-O picture.
2021-05-15 18:13:19	c0mrade	Cut that confuses me.
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2021-05-15 18:14:19	nedbat	c0mrade: full disclosure: i have a pragmatic rather than mathematical approach to this. someone else might have a different answer.
2021-05-15 18:15:09	c0mrade	Well tech interviews go with pragmatic not mathematical.
2021-05-15 18:15:25	c0mrade	For positions like SWE.
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2021-05-15 18:17:16	DPA	In an async generator, how do I yield everything form another async generator? Is there a simpler solution than using an async for loop?
2021-05-15 18:17:32	graingert	DPA: sadly there's no yield from
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2021-05-15 18:17:46	graingert	DPA: it's also a pain because you need aclosing
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2021-05-15 18:18:22	DPA	aclosing?
2021-05-15 18:18:41	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/dOMjJx3V/wrapper_agen.py
2021-05-15 18:18:44	graingert	DPA: ^
2021-05-15 18:19:19	graingert	the eventloop might not be running when one of the async generators gets GCd
2021-05-15 18:19:26	graingert	so there's no way to aclose it safely
2021-05-15 18:19:56	graingert	so you have to explicitly wrap it with `async with async_generator.aclosing(...):`
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2021-05-15 18:22:56	DPA	Oh, ok. Interesting. This makes things a lot more difficult...
2021-05-15 18:23:03	graingert	soz
2021-05-15 18:25:36	DPA	Anyway, thanks a lot.
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2021-05-15 18:31:50	blackleitus	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67551659/how-to-handle-incomming-data-to-later-merge-by-keys
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2021-05-15 18:47:37	meejah	is there "other stuff" that interacts with Hypothesis settings? (I'm trying to use @settings(max_examples=1) but it runs the test many times)
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2021-05-15 18:57:00	SnoopJ	meejah, the test gets run multiple times, or multiple examples are generated?
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2021-05-15 18:58:16	blackleitus	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67551659/how-to-handle-incomming-data-to-later-merge-by-keys
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2021-05-15 19:01:21	meejah	SnoopJ: how would I know the difference?
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2021-05-15 19:03:41	meejah	(a print("foo") at thet top of the test gets run multiple times .. with different examples)
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2021-05-15 19:05:24	petaflot	is there anything such as an async dict creation?
2021-05-15 19:05:29	SnoopJ	meejah, ahh, yea I would've probably stuck in a print or something to confirm that there are multiple examples. Not sure what could be happening, do you have a reproduction?
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2021-05-15 19:05:59	petaflot	or "await return" or whatever that can be
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2021-05-15 19:08:14	deltab	petaflot: you can create a dict and add elements to it over time
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2021-05-15 19:09:00	meejah	SnoopJ: haven't tried simplifying yet (this is a bigger project with other stuff, and some global hypothesis profiles registered etc .. trying to figure out why it's running this lots instead of once)
2021-05-15 19:09:34	SnoopJ	makes sense, given the question. I think your hunch is a solid one
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2021-05-15 19:12:07	petaflot	what?!? https://bpa.st/G5OQ
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2021-05-15 19:14:00	deltab	petaflot: should there be an await there?
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2021-05-15 19:15:20	blackleitus	does anyone here uses airflow or kafka?
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2021-05-15 19:19:09	graingert	petaflot: You can use await in a dict comprehension
2021-05-15 19:19:45	petaflot	https://bpa.st/GWJA
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2021-05-15 19:21:08	graingert	petaflot: What are you trying to do?
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2021-05-15 19:22:09	petaflot	I am trying to show it... :-s
2021-05-15 19:22:17	petaflot	because it is too hard to explain
2021-05-15 19:22:38	graingert	petaflot: you want to wait for a new key to arrive in that dict?
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2021-05-15 19:23:25	petaflot	it's some tool to index things (any type of..) in a non-integer vector space.. a hyper-toroidal kind of thing
2021-05-15 19:23:52	petaflot	graingert: no.. I want too wait for the dict to be created
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2021-05-15 19:23:59	petaflot	^too^to
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2021-05-15 19:25:30	petaflot	in the past I faced two "except" clauses in the same "try" statement to occur simultaneously
2021-05-15 19:25:59	graingert	petaflot: So what's the code that changes allUuidTabs?
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2021-05-15 19:28:53	petaflot	I'd have to send you about 700 lines of code.. and I really can't make it shorter at this point without making it impossible to see if it works of not. it's some highly recursive stuff.
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2021-05-15 19:30:15	petaflot	and somehow I just posted this he out of curiosity. because AFAIK it's some really weird and unusal thing happening.
2021-05-15 19:31:04	graingert	petaflot: I'm guessing you want a condition
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2021-05-15 19:33:20	petaflot	graingert: what do you mean?
2021-05-15 19:33:39	graingert	So you do: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lJaxisGD/foo.py
2021-05-15 19:34:04	graingert	And in the code that mutates all_uuid_tabs you'd do:
2021-05-15 19:34:58	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/yl3mgJEo/mut.py
2021-05-15 19:35:56	graingert	petaflot: In your `def __init__` you'd assign:
2021-05-15 19:35:56	graingert	self.all_uuid_tabs_cond = anyio.Condition()
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2021-05-15 19:36:36	graingert	you could use trio.Condition or asyncio.Condition if you're sure what system you'll be using
2021-05-15 19:36:56	petaflot	oh I thought := was only valid for python4.
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2021-05-15 19:37:48	graingert	It's 3.8 right?
2021-05-15 19:38:26	petaflot	3.9
2021-05-15 19:38:53	graingert	as in := was in 3.8 and continues to exit in 3.9
2021-05-15 19:40:01	petaflot	rotfl.. I just got https://bpa.st/QC7A on a ctrl+C
2021-05-15 19:40:16	petaflot	graingert: cool
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2021-05-15 19:41:04	graingert	petaflot: Did you use a regular blocking time.sleep()?
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2021-05-15 19:44:45	petaflot	yes, on purpose. check this out: https://bpa.st/CGYA
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2021-05-15 19:46:12	 *	petaflot must be really dumb in a way
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2021-05-15 19:47:30	graingert	petaflot: Where's your `async with self.all_uuid_tabs_cond:`?
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2021-05-15 19:48:48	petaflot	I don't understand how to define it
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2021-05-15 19:50:19	graingert	petaflot: Show your full code
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2021-05-15 19:53:52	graingert	petaflot: please keep messages in the channel so everyone can help
2021-05-15 19:54:29	petaflot	http://62.220.136.212/files/fsdgfsjkfasksdj.py
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2021-05-15 19:55:07	 *	petaflot has a tendency for being paranoid
2021-05-15 19:56:00	graingert	Can you just use a regular pastebin this won't open on my phone
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2021-05-15 19:59:53	petaflot	https://bpa.st/MYGQ
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2021-05-15 20:01:38	stormbytes	why wouldn't this work? os.system(f"mkdir {dir} && cd {dir}" Executes the mkdir but not the cd command?
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2021-05-15 20:02:48	nedbat	stormbytes: the cd does work, but it works in the subshell spawned by os.system, and then the shell closes
2021-05-15 20:02:49	chilversc	stormbytes: because && is handled by the shell, but that runs a standard os executable
2021-05-15 20:03:08	stormbytes	nedbat that makes sense
2021-05-15 20:03:19	nedbat	stormbytes: you can do these things without os.system.  os.mkdir and os.chdir
2021-05-15 20:03:31	stormbytes	oh
2021-05-15 20:03:34	stormbytes	neat :)
2021-05-15 20:03:53	stormbytes	will that accomplish what I'm wanting or still same issue?
2021-05-15 20:03:58	nedbat	stormbytes: that will work
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2021-05-15 20:04:35	stormbytes	purrrfect :)
2021-05-15 20:04:37	stormbytes	ty
2021-05-15 20:04:48	graingert	petaflot: You want to set a key here? https://bpa.st/MYGQ#1L682
2021-05-15 20:05:09	graingert	But that won't run because the first KeyError handler will do it instead
2021-05-15 20:06:05	IHasFinger	hi everyone. I have this unix timestamp 1621119002.0 i want to convert it to UTC I tried datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(1621119002.0) but still the same
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2021-05-15 20:06:14	graingert	 petaflot Seems you just want to delete line 616-618
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2021-05-15 20:06:15	IHasFinger	its not in utc
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2021-05-15 20:06:42	stormbytes	nedbat I tried 'os.mkdir(dir) and os.chdir(dir)', still does the same thing
2021-05-15 20:07:06	nedbat	stormbytes: how are you determining that it isn't in the new directory?
2021-05-15 20:07:19	stormbytes	i'm executing this script from the shell
2021-05-15 20:07:23	stormbytes	./script.py
2021-05-15 20:07:31	stormbytes	terminal, rather
2021-05-15 20:07:35	petaflot	graingert: remove the first KeyError handler.. and tada: https://bpa.st/K6YA
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2021-05-15 20:08:23	stormbytes	nedbat its fine, i just figured out what's going on. It will work perfectly for the script and operate in the child directory
2021-05-15 20:08:25	yeticheese	IHasFinger: shouldn't that be utcfromtimestamp for utc?
2021-05-15 20:08:27	chilversc	IHasFinger: what time is it supposed to be, and where did the timestamp come from?
2021-05-15 20:08:28	stormbytes	ty
2021-05-15 20:08:45	IHasFinger	yeticheese, i tried that also still the same
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2021-05-15 20:09:20	yeticheese	really? I'm getting two different timestamps
2021-05-15 20:09:28	yeticheese	what do we mean by "the same" in this context?
2021-05-15 20:09:45	graingert	petaflot: you still haven't added the uuid key to that dict by line 630, and you didn't import kivy
2021-05-15 20:10:32	IHasFinger	yeticheese, by same i mean the result is not the UTC time
2021-05-15 20:11:08	IHasFinger	think i found the issue
2021-05-15 20:11:57	graingert	petaflot: Add `import kivy.uix.widget` to the top of your program
2021-05-15 20:11:57	yeticheese	hmm curious what it was.  At least for the online unix -> UTC converter I used it matches
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2021-05-15 20:13:21	yeticheese	e.g. this website https://www.browserling.com/tools/unix-to-utc seems to match the value that utcfromtimestamp returns
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2021-05-15 20:16:39	blackleitus	hey guys. if I need to validate some data that is appened , first append then validate or can I validate then append?
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2021-05-15 20:18:24	chilversc	blackleitus: that really depends on what your doing and how the validation works
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2021-05-15 20:19:02	blackleitus	I need to check if some data is already on the dict to avoid appending again
2021-05-15 20:19:17	blackleitus	so, should it be first append then validate?
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2021-05-15 20:22:32	deltab	blackleitus: I thinkthat's too little information for use to know
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2021-05-15 20:23:08	deltab	e.g. are you validating the new data or the dict?
2021-05-15 20:23:44	blackleitus	let me make a paste
2021-05-15 20:24:08	blackleitus	https://dpaste.org/AH7h#L26,36
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2021-05-15 20:24:49	blackleitus	I need to validate duplicate jobs since I dont have any form of checking pagination .
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2021-05-15 20:33:48	yeticheese	is it the paste or does line 12 have the wrong indentation?
2021-05-15 20:34:25	yeticheese	i.e. the country variable suggests the second for loop should be inside the first one
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2021-05-15 20:35:41	yeticheese	and then the first question might be what you want to consider "duplicate"
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2021-05-15 20:36:32	chilversc	also, I don't understand why you would append it, the validate if the whole point of the validation is to avoid appending duplicates?
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2021-05-15 20:37:57	yeticheese	yeah the high level answer should be validate before append I think, details of how to validate depend on a few things
2021-05-15 20:38:30	yeticheese	seems like you may want like a "job" object somewhere that is hashable and then you can just use a hashset instead of a dictionary potentially or something
2021-05-15 20:38:33	yeticheese	is one thought
2021-05-15 20:39:42	yeticheese	or sorry that's an array nm, but yeah along those lines
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2021-05-15 20:40:46	blackleitus	it's an array of dict to be sure
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2021-05-15 20:41:08	blackleitus	+yeticheese, how should it be the looping?
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2021-05-15 20:42:03	nedbat	blackleitus: a list of dicts, right?
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2021-05-15 20:42:58	petaflot	graingert: thanks, I hade missed that one out. but now I have a variable that can be of two types.. I don't understand this trace: https://bpa.st/GCCQ
2021-05-15 20:43:48	blackleitus	yes +nedbat , and if everyone more details , that's the format of datatables in order to ingest data
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2021-05-15 20:47:38	yeticheese	blackleitus: you mean my comment about the for loop indentation? I didn't see a variable named "country" in scope on line 12 so seems like you may have wanted that whole for loop to be nested inside your other one is what I meant
2021-05-15 20:47:47	yeticheese	also noticed flat_cities seems unused
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2021-05-15 20:51:12	blackleitus	yeah . since I was going to do the same as outside loop . in this case I did everything inside
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2021-05-15 20:52:59	yeticheese	apparently country actually is still in scope, but it's probably not what you want
2021-05-15 20:53:04	yeticheese	it's the last country from the first for loop
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2021-05-15 20:55:25	yeticheese	e.g. this example seems to have the same issue
2021-05-15 20:55:26	yeticheese	https://dpaste.org/oZ2r
2021-05-15 20:55:43	yeticheese	that just prints 'CA'
2021-05-15 20:56:36	yeticheese	so in your code on line 12 country would always just be US I believe
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2021-05-15 20:58:08	deltab	petaflot: what is the anticipated AttributeError that that is meant to catch?
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2021-05-15 20:59:03	deltab	petaflot: because that seems to do something once, and only if it fails, do it again
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2021-05-15 20:59:39	deltab	wouldn't it just fail again for the same reason?
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2021-05-15 21:05:28	petaflot	deltab: yes it does. because: (repost) https://bpa.st/G5OQ
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2021-05-15 21:07:20	deltab	petaflot: that doesn't seem related to https://bpa.st/GCCQ
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2021-05-15 21:08:17	deltab	oh sorry, I misread
2021-05-15 21:09:07	deltab	still, parts of that don't make sense to me
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2021-05-15 21:10:36	RandomGuyOnIrc	I am writing an app to scrape tweets from twitter. Is tweepy a good library to use?
2021-05-15 21:10:53	RandomGuyOnIrc	It is used in a tutorial "30 days of python"
2021-05-15 21:12:12	wyoung	RandomGuyOnIrc: It's a starting point.
2021-05-15 21:12:35	wyoung	Make a start, get something that works then tweak it / optimise it if needed in future iterations.
2021-05-15 21:12:40	BtbN	The Twitter API is useless to scrape Twitter
2021-05-15 21:12:58	BtbN	You can only access a very limited backlog of tweets. You need to literally scrape the website.
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2021-05-15 21:14:00	RandomGuyOnIrc	wyoung: BtbN: thanks
2021-05-15 21:14:17	RandomGuyOnIrc	BtbN: I actually just want to scrape it in real time
2021-05-15 21:14:28	BtbN	That should work okay enough
2021-05-15 21:15:59	RandomGuyOnIrc	BtbN: how would one write a general web scraper to scrape their site? One needs to log in with a user name and password to see the stuff. Does the requests library support this somehow?
2021-05-15 21:16:20	BtbN	No idea. But Tweets are public?
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2021-05-15 21:17:26	RandomGuyOnIrc	I will try from another machine where I am not logged into twitter, and see if it works
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2021-05-15 21:21:25	blackleitus	https://dpaste.org/XUhM why is this? `TypeError: '<=' not supported between instances of 'int' and 'datetime.datetime'`
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2021-05-15 21:22:36	CordialCatto	there's a twitter scraper called twint
2021-05-15 21:23:01	RandomGuyOnIrc	CordialCatto: thanks
2021-05-15 21:23:35	mefistofeles	blackleitus: last_update.day is an integer, there's not real way to compare that with datetime objects
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2021-05-15 21:24:14	blackleitus	how can I compare timestamp with current day?
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2021-05-15 21:25:34	deltab	you need to turn one into the other, so that you have two values of the same type
2021-05-15 21:26:04	blackleitus	`timedelta(days=7)` is possible to convert into timestamp
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2021-05-15 21:26:29	mefistofeles	blackleitus: I guess you just want last_update there? Not .dat ?
2021-05-15 21:26:32	mefistofeles	*.day
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2021-05-15 21:27:00	blackleitus	if last_update.day <= int(datetime.now().timestamp()) - timedelta(days=7):
2021-05-15 21:27:21	blackleitus	the last one `timedelta(days=7)` to timestamp
2021-05-15 21:27:55	pi-	print(traceback.print_exc())  # Why do some traceback lines give full filepath, others just filename? https://bpa.st/32AA
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2021-05-15 21:28:05	deltab	last_update.day is the number 16
2021-05-15 21:28:24	deltab	is the number 16 less than or equal to the date a week ago?
2021-05-15 21:28:29	mefistofeles	blackleitus: I mean, just `last_update <= datetime.now() - timedelta(days=7)`
2021-05-15 21:28:46	pi-	blackleitus: int( (datetime.now() - timedelta(days=7) ).timestamp())
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2021-05-15 21:29:39	blackleitus	+pi-, one timestamp for all
2021-05-15 21:29:43	deltab	pi-: presumably those are the names python used to load them
2021-05-15 21:30:00	blackleitus	by the way , why one space betweeen multiples calls?
2021-05-15 21:30:06	blackleitus	I have seen this pattern often
2021-05-15 21:30:34	deltab	Server.py is in the current directory, so it didn't need to add any prefixes to find it
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2021-05-15 21:43:55	blackleitus	is okay to say if jobs are older than 7 days skip them? if last_update <= int( (datetime.now() - timedelta(days=7) ).timestamp()):
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2021-05-15 21:44:58	pangpang	hello, there is good tutorial for python?
2021-05-15 21:45:31	grym	pangpang: several.  first language, or are you already skilled in one or more?
2021-05-15 21:45:32	deltab	pangpang: several. What previous programming experience do you have?
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2021-05-15 21:45:35	blackleitus	+pangpang, codeacademy if pretty elemenal
2021-05-15 21:45:38	blackleitus	elemental*
2021-05-15 21:45:40	grym	deltab: jinx!
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2021-05-15 21:46:10	pangpang	yeah i know python a bit, but i have no idea making class
2021-05-15 21:46:17	pangpang	so i want to concentrate on class
2021-05-15 21:46:24	pangpang	of python
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2021-05-15 21:48:28	blackleitus	+pangpang, go the project route
2021-05-15 21:48:46	pangpang	project route? what do you mean?
2021-05-15 21:49:35	blackleitus	build simple projects . example if you are easy to search jobs. build a script that automate job search , if you want to automate your google responses too , etc etc
2021-05-15 21:50:01	blink	is it stupid to jump in more on ADA right now
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2021-05-15 21:50:05	pangpang	blackleitus, but i want to read tutorial for class :(
2021-05-15 21:50:12	blink	i already have tons of coin in ADA but its rocketing and im thinking of MORE lol
2021-05-15 21:50:41	blackleitus	+pangpang, `class` as OOP or which kind of class?
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2021-05-15 21:50:51	blink	nah ill wait itll crash
2021-05-15 21:50:53	pangpang	yeah class of oop
2021-05-15 21:50:57	blink	after every peak comes a major crash
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2021-05-15 21:53:31	deltab	pangpang: do you know how to make functions?
2021-05-15 21:53:55	pangpang	deltab, yea i know it
2021-05-15 21:54:09	blackleitus	+pangpang, you can go with https://realpython.com/python3-object-oriented-programming/
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2021-05-15 21:54:29	blackleitus	or still go with codeacademy
2021-05-15 21:54:50	pangpang	blackleitus, thanks :)
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2021-05-15 22:00:05	pi-	deltab: thanks!
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2021-05-16 02:10:09	Ouranos	Good evening!
2021-05-16 02:11:18	wyclif	Good evening all
2021-05-16 02:11:42	Wulf	Good Morning!
2021-05-16 02:11:56	vdamewood	Good time period.
2021-05-16 02:12:00	Ouranos	I am trying to learn python and I just started.
2021-05-16 02:12:08	vdamewood	Sounds good.
2021-05-16 02:12:31	Ouranos	I'm on sololearn and I"m a bit of an idiot.
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2021-05-16 02:13:12	vdamewood	You should stop being a bit of an idiot then.
2021-05-16 02:13:29	Ouranos	I'm trying to do a BMI calculator. I think I have enough commands to do this, but I can't figure this out rn...
2021-05-16 02:13:51	Wulf	Ouranos: share your code: https://bpaste.net/+python
2021-05-16 02:14:17	Ouranos	rn I don't have any code.  I think with int and print I should be able to do it.
2021-05-16 02:14:22	Wulf	Ouranos: know any other programming languages?
2021-05-16 02:14:29	Wulf	what's "rn"?
2021-05-16 02:14:37	Ouranos	Any resources other than solo learn to start learning from nothing?
2021-05-16 02:14:40	Ouranos	rn is right now
2021-05-16 02:15:15	Wulf	Ouranos: our channel topic got a few links
2021-05-16 02:15:42	Network2501	hi, not python specific but is there a workflow/mapping tool for an application process/flow anyone here recommends?
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2021-05-16 02:17:09	Ouranos	I think it is best for me to restart these tutorials and take some notes.  I see how I could do this but I'm not using the tools properly.
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2021-05-16 02:19:08	Wulf	Ouranos: if you need help with your BMI calculator, share your code and tell us where you're stuck.
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2021-05-16 02:25:32	Deyaa	I want to find a way to make a dynamic selection in admin
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2021-05-16 02:27:41	Deyaa	Like if I select A then b and c going to change to related values
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2021-05-16 02:28:20	Ouranos	I'll review my work and report back here.
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2021-05-16 02:55:40	samian	Since vscode is used significantly by the python community, are vscode python ide questions allowed ?
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2021-05-16 03:10:05	Wulf	samian: guess so. There is also ##vs-code, but there aren't many people there.
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2021-05-16 03:20:03	samian	Is it possible to have project-wide macros in vscode ?
2021-05-16 03:20:09	samian	This is for a python project
2021-05-16 03:21:07	samian	macros or global variables
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2021-05-16 03:22:04	samian	I'm not concerned with names or technicalities. I just want a way to have a DEBUG variable I can switch true or false that is used across multiple files
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2021-05-16 04:22:35	tsujp	how can I use `socket.select` and have a (non-blocking) countdown timer (say 10 seconds) depending on one of the sockets messages? So a socket sends me a message "A" and I start a countdown timer for 10 seconds without blocking any of the other sockets im listening to. If I just do time.sleep(10) when a new client joins it's not handled until that
2021-05-16 04:22:36	tsujp	time.sleep(10) finishes
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2021-05-16 04:26:53	nanonyme	tsujp, why not use one of the existing event loops?
2021-05-16 04:27:10	nanonyme	Sounds like you're trying to create your own directly on top of socket
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2021-05-16 04:27:56	tsujp	Which existing event loops are there?
2021-05-16 04:28:06	tsujp	asyncio?
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2021-05-16 04:33:35	tsujp	nanonyme
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2021-05-16 04:35:39	f8e4	how to parse this in utc? dt = datetime.strptime('2020-12-20 22:58:34', "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S")
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2021-05-16 04:37:48	 *	f8e4 figured
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2021-05-16 04:47:44	IHasFinger	Hi everyone, maybe this is a stupid question. But how do i turn this unix timestamp to utc unix timestamp 1621131608
2021-05-16 04:48:11	f8e4	every unix timestamp is utc
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2021-05-16 04:54:49	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: datetime has a variety of functions for mangling time and timestamps
2021-05-16 04:55:58	nanonyme	tsujp, asyncio, Twisted, curio and whatnots. Most alternatives are better than rolling one's own
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2021-05-16 05:04:15	IHasFinger	nanonyme, does pytz have a method to turn unix to readable datetime format?
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2021-05-16 05:13:15	IHasFinger	what I am trying to do is this. I have a timestamp like 1621155055 and I want to compare the utc time of now to that to see how many minutes ago it was. It has to always be in minutes. e.g. 5 minutes ago, 637 minutes ago how can I do this please?
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2021-05-16 05:14:07	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: well, think about it
2021-05-16 05:14:13	gordonjcp	you know what the UTC time is, now
2021-05-16 05:14:24	gordonjcp	you know what the Unix timestamp time is now, too
2021-05-16 05:14:34	retrojeff	i'm looking for a module called 'MORTIS' does anyone know where I can find it?
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2021-05-16 05:14:59	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: how would you work out the time difference between Unix time *now* and your timestamp?
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2021-05-16 05:16:52	ChrisWarrick	retrojeff: (1) google (2) wherever you found out about this module existing?
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2021-05-16 05:17:46	retrojeff	google turned up nothing and I found the python script on a random github gist
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2021-05-16 05:18:31	retrojeff	its for a twitch formatter for hexchat irc client
2021-05-16 05:19:09	ChrisWarrick	retrojeff: look around the poster’s github profile or something, or maybe it’s part of hexchat
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2021-05-16 05:20:35	IHasFinger	gordonjcp, hi i did try this https://bpa.st/F6PA using the the result was way off so might have been an error from my part can you check if its correct? thank you
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2021-05-16 05:21:03	retrojeff	the person who posted the gist was active recently so they might provide it (crosses fingers) guessing they just forgot to provide it
2021-05-16 05:21:26	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: why are you dividing anything by 1000?
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2021-05-16 05:21:49	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: you're overthinking it
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2021-05-16 05:22:01	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: how would you get the difference in time between now and your timestamp, in seconds?
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2021-05-16 05:23:02	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: https://pypi.org/project/timeago/ ?
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2021-05-16 05:25:02	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: this will get you the conversion to a `datetime` object: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3682748/converting-unix-timestamp-string-to-readable-date
2021-05-16 05:25:20	very_sneaky	ah, you've already got it.
2021-05-16 05:25:20	IHasFinger	gordonjcp, convert to seconds and takeaway?
2021-05-16 05:25:35	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: convert what to seconds?
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2021-05-16 05:25:49	IHasFinger	both unix
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2021-05-16 05:25:51	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: this is the Socratic Method, incidentally
2021-05-16 05:25:56	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: I already know the answer
2021-05-16 05:26:07	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: what does a Unix timestamp represent?
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2021-05-16 05:29:12	Samian	is there a way to package python programs so a lay person (not a coder) can run the program?
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2021-05-16 05:29:38	Samian	I want to show the program I've made to the company's cofounder. He's not a coder, doesn't have python installed, and doesn't haveany of the packages installed
2021-05-16 05:30:01	gordonjcp	if they don't have python installed you're going to have a less than enjoyable time
2021-05-16 05:30:13	very_sneaky	Samian: you can create an executable, but it's rough from what i understand - i've never done it before
2021-05-16 05:30:18	Samian	that stinks. I remember making qt programs and that was easy for anyone to run
2021-05-16 05:30:31	Samian	qt c++ programs I mean
2021-05-16 05:30:44	gordonjcp	what distro is he running that doesn't already have Python installed?
2021-05-16 05:30:58	Samian	it was easy to create a folder containing everything the program needed to run. In fact, I could create a single file that contained the entire program with all dependencies in it
2021-05-16 05:31:05	Samian	gordonjcp,  no clue
2021-05-16 05:31:22	Samian	He's on windows or osx likely
2021-05-16 05:31:24	gordonjcp	I thought everything had Python installed by default these days
2021-05-16 05:31:29	very_sneaky	for windows: https://www.py2exe.org/
2021-05-16 05:31:32	gordonjcp	OSX definitely has Python
2021-05-16 05:31:34	very_sneaky	osx will come pre-installed with python
2021-05-16 05:31:39	gordonjcp	what's Windows based on?
2021-05-16 05:31:45	Samian	I can ask him what os he's on
2021-05-16 05:31:49	supakeen	I mean, `pyinstaller` exist which will bundle everything together into a single executable with a Python interpreter.
2021-05-16 05:31:50	gordonjcp	Looks KDEish?
2021-05-16 05:31:50	adder`	osx will ditch python soon
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2021-05-16 05:31:55	supakeen	But you'll need the platforms you run on.
2021-05-16 05:32:02	supakeen	As it's no cross compiler.
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2021-05-16 05:33:58	emerent	adder`: what does that mean?
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2021-05-16 05:34:19	adder`	it means that the users will have to install python on their own
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2021-05-16 05:36:03	supakeen	Or that it (like all of the development tools) will come with xcode.
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2021-05-16 05:41:14	rendar	a quick way to get a list without the *penultimate* element?
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2021-05-16 05:43:48	emerent	rendar: foo[:-2] + foo[-1:]
2021-05-16 05:43:48	teut	[1, 2, 0, 6, 5, 3]  - > [[1, 0, 5], [2, 6, 3]]      whats the simple way to do this?
2021-05-16 05:44:06	rendar	uhm, ok
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2021-05-16 05:44:20	teut	two filters is only what I can think of
2021-05-16 05:44:29	rendar	emerent: it's wrong
2021-05-16 05:44:47	rendar	emerent: sorry, i was wrong, yours is ok
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2021-05-16 05:47:17	rendar	emerent: and a[:1]+a[2:] to erase the 2nd element, right?
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2021-05-16 05:48:04	teut	list(filter(lambda x, y: x%2 != 0,  enumerate(eq.all_coeffs())))   and how does this works?
2021-05-16 05:48:05	very_sneaky	teut: [[x for x in foo if x%2 == 0], [x for x in foo if x%2 != 0]]? idk depends on the rule you're using to separate them. or you could slice it `[foo[::2], foo[1::2]]`
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2021-05-16 05:48:24	very_sneaky	the slice is probably the least verbose
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2021-05-16 05:48:42	teut	yes very_sneaky that can be done
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2021-05-16 05:49:26	teut	ok then
2021-05-16 05:49:26	teut	, I ll use the loops
2021-05-16 05:49:29	teut	thanks
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2021-05-16 05:49:51	emerent	rendar: sure
2021-05-16 05:49:51	teut	oh yes that slicing is better, didnt trike me
2021-05-16 05:49:55	teut	strike*
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2021-05-16 05:50:40	very_sneaky	i just realised the list comprehensions don't get the right answer. you get the idea anyway
2021-05-16 05:51:05	teut	yes that slicing was the apt solution
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2021-05-16 05:51:26	teut	didnt do that from quite some time so forgot that
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2021-05-16 05:55:51	IHasFinger	gordonjcp, i dont understand what you mean
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2021-05-16 05:58:07	IHasFinger	very_sneaky, i tried https://bpa.st/LVVA how said 6 minutes ago, it should be 66 minutes ago
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2021-05-16 05:59:24	IHasFinger	1621155055 was generated 09:50 uk time which is 08:50 utc time
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2021-05-16 06:04:59	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: how are you generating that timestamp?
2021-05-16 06:05:22	IHasFinger	very_sneaky, I am getting it from telegram after i sent a message
2021-05-16 06:05:30	IHasFinger	it is part of the json response
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2021-05-16 06:06:29	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: the problem i see is, datetime.fromtimestamp returns the local date corresponding to the POSIX timestamp: https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.date.fromtimestamp
2021-05-16 06:06:42	very_sneaky	which means timezone info is already encoded in to your datetime object
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2021-05-16 06:07:04	very_sneaky	`ago = timeago.format(datetime.fromtimestamp(1621155055), datetime.now())` returns '1 hour ago' for me
2021-05-16 06:07:04	IHasFinger	very_sneaky, yeah am guessing they is no way to say use utc instead?
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2021-05-16 06:08:34	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: without researching more, i'm not sure. you might have to use pytz to convert it to UTC. i'm nto sure how the datetime library processes things under the hood
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2021-05-16 06:10:05	very_sneaky	IHasFinger: actually, see: https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp
2021-05-16 06:10:06	IHasFinger	 very_sneaky if i remember correctly when i looked at ptyz it still took in a timezome
2021-05-16 06:10:15	very_sneaky	looks like it takes a timezone as an optional param
2021-05-16 06:10:34	IHasFinger	else it default to your local one
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2021-05-16 06:11:01	IHasFinger	so it will still be off. Unless i do it the other way around. turn the unix to my timezome and do the maths
2021-05-16 06:11:05	very_sneaky	`ago = timeago.format(datetime.utcfromtimestamp(1621155055), datetime.utcnow())`
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2021-05-16 06:11:31	very_sneaky	that will do it in utc - a good first step is probably just to read the documentation :)
2021-05-16 06:11:39	very_sneaky	https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.utcfromtimestamp
2021-05-16 06:11:46	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: unix timestamps are in seconds
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2021-05-16 06:11:52	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: specifically, seconds since 1/1/1970
2021-05-16 06:12:19	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: if you subtract a timestamp from the timestamp *now* you'll always get "how many seconds ago"
2021-05-16 06:12:45	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: if you don't specifically need wallclock time then you don't need to bugger about with converting to UTC or anything
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2021-05-16 06:20:43	IHasFinger	gordonjcp, like this right? https://bpa.st/ZHIQ
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2021-05-16 06:25:46	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: you don't really need to do that, you can just use time.time()
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2021-05-16 06:28:28	gordonjcp	IHasFinger: import time; print(time.time()-past) would do it
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2021-05-16 06:30:26	IHasFinger	very_sneaky, https://bpa.st/5HCQ line 6 this shows the correct time for the "past" in line one, thank you. how gordonjcp in line 10 the 2166.844 seconds does not add to over 1 hour :)
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2021-05-16 06:40:42	rond_	If I define a function inside another function, then will it be defined every time an outer function is called? (which would impose overhead...?)
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2021-05-16 06:41:46	rond_	in other way: Does it pose efficiency threats to define inner functions and use them?
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2021-05-16 06:48:10	ChrisWarrick	rond_: yes, what use-case do you have for nested functions?
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2021-05-16 06:48:47	rond_	code modularization
2021-05-16 06:48:53	ChrisWarrick	rond_: that is?
2021-05-16 06:49:19	rond_	i want to define subprocedures for clarity
2021-05-16 06:50:01	ChrisWarrick	rond_: why are they subprocedures and not just regular functions/methods on the same level?
2021-05-16 06:50:46	rond_	why would I clutter the namespace?
2021-05-16 06:50:52	rond_	the intentions are more clear with inner function
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2021-05-16 06:51:34	ChrisWarrick	rond_: you could start the function names with _ to signal they’re “private” (they’re not, but they aren’t meant to be used externally)
2021-05-16 06:51:50	rond_	so, the answer is: inner functions come with costs
2021-05-16 06:51:53	rond_	thanks!
2021-05-16 06:52:18	ChrisWarrick	rond_: some libraries use from-imports in __init__.py for the public/most useful API and everything else is in modules
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2021-05-16 07:04:47	dbax	my script takes to args to run arg1=start_date and arg2=end_date and I want to set a cron job to run the scrip every monday 8AM and take the arg1 from the system which would be todays date. how can I do that?
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2021-05-16 07:05:42	ChrisWarrick	dbax: datetime.date.today()
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2021-05-16 07:07:24	dbax	ChrisWarrick: how do I pass datetime.date.today() as arg when running the script as python script.py arg1 arg2 ?
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2021-05-16 07:07:50	ChrisWarrick	dbax: you don’t
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2021-05-16 07:08:14	leduyquang753	You can give it a special value that makes the script get the current time maybe.
2021-05-16 07:08:15	ChrisWarrick	dbax: you can rewrite your script to default to today if a date is not specified or if it has the value 'today', for example
2021-05-16 07:09:02	ChrisWarrick	dbax: you could use the unix `date` command while calling the script (although I probably wouldn’t)
2021-05-16 07:09:41	dbax	ChrisWarrick: yeah defaulting the value would be the perfect approach. Thanks
2021-05-16 07:10:00	vaq	Hi, I have a pandas dataframe with 1000s of rows, one of the columns is pct. How do I make a new dataframe and rank all the rows in a score from 0-100 where 100 is the one with the highest pct, 99.99 the second and so on.
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2021-05-16 07:34:30	graingert	rond_: very slight allocation costs though
2021-05-16 07:34:56	graingert	rond_: the __code__ object is reused
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2021-05-16 08:12:40	nedbat	rond_: the costs you are talking about are microscopic, and the least reason for choosing or avoiding inner functions.
2021-05-16 08:16:25	redsh	If it makes sense to have an inner function, like for a closure, go for it. If it doesn't, then it might be cleaner to not do it.
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2021-05-16 08:24:13	amo	i've used closures for "precomputing" stuff, works quite well
2021-05-16 08:26:15	amo	if you have some heavy maths, you can factor out some things you need repeatedly, put it in the outer function so it's only calculated once
2021-05-16 08:26:49	amo	return the inner function and reuse the precalculated values
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2021-05-16 08:28:11	amo	all wrapped up in a local namespace it's also cleaner than to have everything global
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2021-05-16 08:41:03	rond_	thank you all!
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2021-05-16 08:50:08	graingert	I'd love to see autocurrying syntax: `def foo(bar)(baz):`
2021-05-16 08:50:17	ChrisWarrick	graingert: /join #scala
2021-05-16 08:50:26	graingert	no u
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2021-05-16 08:54:02	stormbytes	how do 'package' a python app? eg. in NodeJS all dependencies are contained in node_modules/ so if you invoke the app's entry piont (eg. app.js) it just works. With python, I've been developing with virtualenv. How does that work for deploying say a CLI ?
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2021-05-16 08:55:38	tsujp	`[randint(0, 3) for p in range(0, 9)]` generates 3 random integers between 0 and 9, how can I enforce that each of the 3 integers it generates be unique?
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2021-05-16 08:55:48	tsujp	i.e. `[1, 1, 3]` should be impossible for instance
2021-05-16 08:55:53	graingert	stormbytes: https://chriswarrick.com/blog/2014/09/15/python-apps-the-right-way-entry_points-and-scripts/
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2021-05-16 08:56:21	graingert	stormbytes: you can make a dist and upload it to pypi.org so that `pipx run your-dist-name` will execute your console script
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2021-05-16 08:56:38	ChrisWarrick	stormbytes: (are JS apps really happy with running `node node_modules/whatever/app.js`?)
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2021-05-16 08:56:43	graingert	tsujp: sample?
2021-05-16 08:56:54	tsujp	graingert huh?
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2021-05-16 08:57:26	stormbytes	graingert i'm not being clear here. I'm developing the app with virtualenv (and all deps are stored there). Now that the app is already developed, I want to be able to RUN the app locally without having to use virtualenv
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2021-05-16 08:57:50	graingert	stormbytes: like a shiv or zipapp?
2021-05-16 08:57:53	stormbytes	in my case i'm developing a cli app
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2021-05-16 08:58:21	graingert	tsujp: random.sample(range(0, 9), k=3)
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2021-05-16 08:58:31	tsujp	cheers graingert
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2021-05-16 08:59:05	tsujp	I have on more question, I have a list of objects and each object has a property `id` how can I return all the ids in a list?
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2021-05-16 08:59:08	graingert	although it's a bit slow as it makes the range a list
2021-05-16 08:59:24	graingert	tsujp: [v.id for v in vs]
2021-05-16 08:59:24	tsujp	property `idd`*
2021-05-16 08:59:26	stormbytes	Lets say I write a script that relies on the 'requests' module. The script is run from the command line using ./myscript.py. Is there some way to package dependencies (requests module, in this case) so that I can run my script without getting an error (and without running virtualenv)
2021-05-16 08:59:32	graingert	tsujp: [v.idd for v in vs]
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2021-05-16 08:59:49	graingert	stormbytes: zipapp
2021-05-16 08:59:51	tsujp	thank you again graingert
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2021-05-16 09:00:01	graingert	stormbytes: https://docs.python.org/3/library/zipapp.html
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2021-05-16 09:01:26	graingert	stormbytes: https://gist.github.com/lukassup/cf289fdd39124d5394513a169206631c
2021-05-16 09:01:38	stormbytes	Looking at zipapp, ty
2021-05-16 09:01:54	nedbat	graingert: does that manage the third-party dependencies?
2021-05-16 09:02:10	graingert	nedbat: manage?
2021-05-16 09:02:13	stormbytes	what i need is a way to package my app as a standalone app
2021-05-16 09:02:17	graingert	as in takes the deps and puts them in a place
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2021-05-16 09:03:26	nedbat	i see, the gist shows including your venv in the zip file.
2021-05-16 09:03:37	nedbat	stormbytes: is this for you to run it, or for other people to run it?
2021-05-16 09:04:04	stormbytes	nedbat in this case just me, but i don't see why that should matter
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2021-05-16 09:04:33	nedbat	stormbytes: well, it would matter if the other person might not have Python installed, or might not want to know it's a Python program.
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2021-05-16 09:04:49	stormbytes	nedbat oh i c
2021-05-16 09:05:04	graingert	it doesn't actually use a virtualenv, there's a step where one is created and it's then ignored for the rest of the tutorial
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2021-05-16 09:05:09	graingert	it actually uses `pip install -t . -r requirements.txt`
2021-05-16 09:05:16	stormbytes	nedbat from what I'm getting, it should simply be about installing app dependencies locally
2021-05-16 09:05:40	stormbytes	graingert what's -t ?
2021-05-16 09:05:53	graingert	to install to a directory that's not a virtual environment
2021-05-16 09:06:28	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0x7BH5K9/pip.man
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2021-05-16 09:06:42	stormbytes	ah
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2021-05-16 09:07:01	nedbat	graingert: i haven't seen this before.  What in this gist puts "app" into the sys.path?
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2021-05-16 09:08:30	nedbat	graingert: i think maybe the file layout shown in the gist is a little wrong? There's a step of copying flaskr into app, but it's not in the directory picture later on.
2021-05-16 09:09:21	graingert	nedbat: the zipapp machinary puts the .zip on the path
2021-05-16 09:09:46	graingert	nedbat: it's here https://gist.github.com/lukassup/cf289fdd39124d5394513a169206631c#cleanup
2021-05-16 09:09:58	graingert	and you can install it here: pip install -t . ../flaskr
2021-05-16 09:09:59	stormbytes	once you install requirements locally (pip install -t . -r requirements.txt) the app size explodes
2021-05-16 09:10:10	graingert	you want the deps in there or not lol
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2021-05-16 09:10:38	nedbat	graingert: right, but that pip install step should put flaskr into the app directory, right?  The picture in #cleanup doesn't show that.
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2021-05-16 09:10:51	nedbat	stormbytes: how many requirements do you have?
2021-05-16 09:11:01	stormbytes	graingert Well yeah, but what's the point of the virtualenv then? Same exact thing could be accomplished the way node does it. The node_modules folder (which can be huge) is never distributed.
2021-05-16 09:11:14	graingert	nedbat: oh you're right
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2021-05-16 09:11:40	graingert	stormbytes: so you can have multiple different versions of the same dist on the same machine
2021-05-16 09:11:49	nedbat	stormbytes: then people using your code have to re-install the dependencies, yes?
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2021-05-16 09:11:52	stormbytes	nedbat I'm just sandboxing this right not many. Do all the import statements need to change to point to the local deps now? My app's not working anymore.
2021-05-16 09:11:57	graingert	and so you can install packages without interfering with the OS python
2021-05-16 09:12:14	stormbytes	nedbat: yep
2021-05-16 09:12:15	graingert	stormbytes: no it should just work with the zipapp - what errors are you getting?
2021-05-16 09:12:37	stormbytes	grainbert I haven't used zipapp, just that pip command you pasted
2021-05-16 09:12:44	nedbat	stormbytes: ok, in Python the way to do that is to write a setup.cfg or setup.py and name your dependencies, and then people using your program install it with pip, which also installs the dependencies.
2021-05-16 09:13:15	nedbat	stormbytes: graingert's gist shows a way to do things that is different than how npm typically does it.
2021-05-16 09:13:20	stormbytes	nedbat... this is gonna be a steep learning curve
2021-05-16 09:13:28	graingert	stormbytes: it's not really clear what you want?
2021-05-16 09:13:34	nedbat	stormbytes: i recommend slowing down and clarifying your goals.
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2021-05-16 09:13:42	graingert	you wanted a way to distribute your app in a standalone way without using virtualenv?
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2021-05-16 09:13:48	nedbat	stormbytes: that's going to involve learning about how Python does things, that might be different than you expect.
2021-05-16 09:14:07	stormbytes	nedbat no questions there
2021-05-16 09:14:20	nedbat	stormbytes: sorry, no questions about what?
2021-05-16 09:14:31	redsh	I'd expect just making something that sets up a virtualenv behind the scenes to be easier.
2021-05-16 09:14:38	stormbytes	nedbat about needing to learn how python does things
2021-05-16 09:14:52	nedbat	stormbytes: meaning, you are fully clear on how it works, or?
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2021-05-16 09:15:06	nedbat	stormbytes: or you agree that we need to talk about how Python works?
2021-05-16 09:15:09	stormbytes	grainbert I'm sandboxing an python script. I want to run it using ./myscript.py without having an active env
2021-05-16 09:15:42	graingert	well you can't
2021-05-16 09:15:52	graingert	what do you mean by sandbox?
2021-05-16 09:15:55	stormbytes	nedbat: I'm starting out with python so not clear on anything at this point. It will take some time.
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2021-05-16 09:16:22	stormbytes	grainbert : "sandbox" means to 'whip something up, quick and dirty like" just to see it working
2021-05-16 09:16:33	graingert	a zipapp is a kind of weak "sandbox", that's similar to a virtual environment which is another type of weak "sandbox"
2021-05-16 09:16:43	graingert	oh to me sandbox is a type of isolation
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2021-05-16 09:17:09	stormbytes	grainbert we're talking 'hello world' here
2021-05-16 09:17:11	graingert	you can just put the path of your virtual environment in your #!
2021-05-16 09:17:23	stormbytes	ohhh
2021-05-16 09:17:27	stormbytes	lol that's it??
2021-05-16 09:17:40	graingert	eg you can add #!/home/graingert/.virtualenvs/testing39/bin/python3
2021-05-16 09:17:50	stormbytes	gonna try that
2021-05-16 09:17:53	graingert	or wherever your python is
2021-05-16 09:18:08	graingert	it won't work for other people because they'll have virtual environments in different locations
2021-05-16 09:18:24	graingert	for my own use I'd use https://chriswarrick.com/blog/2014/09/15/python-apps-the-right-way-entry_points-and-scripts/
2021-05-16 09:18:28	graingert	the script I sent you
2021-05-16 09:18:52	graingert	stormbytes: when you said "without virtualenv" I assumed you meant *conceptually* without virtualenv
2021-05-16 09:19:15	graingert	the blog post I sent you*
2021-05-16 09:19:16	stormbytes	grainbert I looked at that. Will have to revisit when I have more knowledge of python. It's a little confusing
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2021-05-16 09:19:37	stormbytes	grainbert You don't know how to be dumb :)
2021-05-16 09:19:59	stormbytes	i'm really good at that sort of thing lol
2021-05-16 09:20:39	stormbytes	can a shebang be a relative path?
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2021-05-16 09:21:01	graingert	I'm pretty sure you can't
2021-05-16 09:21:15	stormbytes	k
2021-05-16 09:21:32	graingert	maybe a poetry console script would be simpler?
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2021-05-16 09:22:02	graingert	https://python-poetry.org/docs/pyproject/#scripts
2021-05-16 09:22:04	stormbytes	what happens if you have 2 shebang lines in a single file?
2021-05-16 09:22:37	graingert	stormbytes: try it. The second one is just a comment
2021-05-16 09:22:45	stormbytes	perfect!
2021-05-16 09:23:32	nedbat	stormbytes: i'm curious why you want to avoid a virtualenv for quick and dirty work?
2021-05-16 09:23:51	nedbat	stormbytes: i have one virtualenv which is just a garbage dump of random things I'm trying
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2021-05-16 09:24:26	stormbytes	nedbat: i use virtualenv for development but i don't want to have to activate that every time just to run the script
2021-05-16 09:25:10	nedbat	stormbytes: if you don't mind me asking, why did you ask about 2 shebangs?
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2021-05-16 09:25:35	graingert	ok that poetry entry is super confusing https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/pull/4071/files
2021-05-16 09:25:47	stormbytes	nedbat: well, because I wanted to keep the regular #! line for future reference
2021-05-16 09:26:15	graingert	stormbytes: you don't just have `#!/usr/bin/env python3` living in your head rent free?
2021-05-16 09:26:30	stormbytes	grainbert believe it or not!
2021-05-16 09:27:01	graingert	btw you can tab complete nicks in IRC
2021-05-16 09:27:15	graingert	eg type: grai[tab]
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2021-05-16 09:28:48	stormbytes	Here's what I'm doing
2021-05-16 09:28:48	stormbytes	https://bpa.st/E7JA
2021-05-16 09:28:56	stormbytes	does not work without the virtualenv activated
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2021-05-16 09:30:15	stormbytes	I don't mind installing all my deps for all my projects into the global space if need be. Its just me using it. But its so inelegant
2021-05-16 09:30:49	nedbat	stormbytes: you can use one virtualenv for that, instead of the global space.
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2021-05-16 09:31:12	stormbytes	nedbat so then what? activate it from .zshrc?
2021-05-16 09:31:14	nedbat	stormbytes: or you can use "pip install --user" if you like
2021-05-16 09:31:22	nedbat	stormbytes: yes, you could activate it from .zshrc
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2021-05-16 09:32:19	stormbytes	i suppose i can do that
2021-05-16 09:33:42	stormbytes	nedbat : why didn't grainbert's way work?
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2021-05-16 09:34:01	stormbytes	passing the virtualenv/python in the shebang
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2021-05-16 09:34:51	stormbytes	nedbat: nevermind... typo
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2021-05-16 09:37:32	stormbytes	grainbert fyi: relative paths work in #! lines (eg. #!env/bin/python3)
2021-05-16 09:37:49	stormbytes	graingert fyi: relative paths work in #! lines (eg. #!env/bin/python3)
2021-05-16 09:38:13	stormbytes	which solves my problem
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2021-05-16 09:50:15	astronavt	stormbytes: i think that might be platform dependent. iirc ive had problems with doing that in the past
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2021-05-16 09:50:43	stormbytes	astronavt ah. works on a mac
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2021-05-16 09:53:05	astronavt	stormbytes: apparently it at least works on all unixes https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/77584/73256. so if you always know the current directory of the process invoking the script, then i guess it's safe.
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2021-05-16 09:53:40	stormbytes	astronavt i don't plan on distributing this app
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2021-05-16 09:54:27	astronavt	right, that's a pretty neat trick. put `#!venv/bin/python` at the top of your scripts.
2021-05-16 09:54:39	stormbytes	yep
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2021-05-16 09:54:45	stormbytes	No need to activate any envs
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2021-05-16 09:55:03	stormbytes	and all deps are already there
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2021-05-16 09:57:02	nedbat	stormbytes: you are always in the same directory when running this program?
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2021-05-16 10:17:55	astronavt	nedbat: that's a typical assumption in a lot of "server-side" dev setups that i've seen
2021-05-16 10:18:00	astronavt	(and i often rely on it myself)
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2021-05-16 10:19:43	nedbat	astronavt: i'm still trying to understand stormbytes' needs
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2021-05-16 10:30:08	stormbytes	nedbat : nope, scripts are symlinked to /path/dir
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2021-05-16 10:30:51	nedbat	stormbytes: are you interested in learning more Python-native ways to solve these problems?
2021-05-16 10:30:57	nedbat	stormbytes: this is feeling very ad-hoc
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2021-05-16 10:31:12	stormbytes	nedbat : what's ad-hoc about it?
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2021-05-16 10:32:49	stormbytes	nedbat: (among other things) I write my own CLI apps. The apps are self-contained. The entry points are executable and symlinked to a folder in the path so they are accessible for anywhere in the file system.
2021-05-16 10:33:22	nedbat	stormbytes: for example, if you wanted to share these with other people, it would require specialized directions from you.
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2021-05-16 10:34:24	nedbat	stormbytes: and your questions over the last few days have to trying to get things to work with Python.  That might be easier in the long run if you use more typical mechanisms.
2021-05-16 10:34:26	stormbytes	nedbat: I'm not building these to share with anyone
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2021-05-16 10:35:31	stormbytes	nedbat: I hope to stick with python and to learn the quirks and adapt.
2021-05-16 10:35:46	nedbat	stormbytes: adapt meaning use more typical mechanisms?
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2021-05-16 10:35:53	stormbytes	nedbat : generally speaking, i'm a prototyper
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2021-05-16 10:36:30	stormbytes	nedbat: yes, adapt = contemplate doing what I need in some python conventional way
2021-05-16 10:37:05	nedbat	stormbytes: why not start now? :)
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2021-05-16 10:38:51	stormbytes	nedbat: Well, its not like there's any real starting point. It's learned empirically. I learn what I need. I've no intention of ever being a conventional programmer or working at such a job.
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2021-05-16 10:39:27	stormbytes	nedbat: that said, I still intend to acquire some conventional baseline understanding of python by following a course/reading a book
2021-05-16 10:39:44	Yhg1s	stormbytes: it's not really about being conventional or doing what companies expect, it's about doing things in ways that the standard tooling expects, so you don't have to fight them :)
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2021-05-16 10:40:48	stormbytes	Yhg1s that's a valid point. I've no intention of swimming against the current. That would be silly. With CLI's my approach works fine for what I need.
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2021-05-16 10:59:41	flux__aeon	def get_floor(room_number: int) -> int:    this is the first time i've see a python function defined like this. is this a new feature?
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2021-05-16 11:01:12	bjs	flux__aeon: the syntax has existed for a while (since Python 3).  It's just for documentation, and Python itself ignores it like it does comments and other documentation
2021-05-16 11:01:25	bjs	flux__aeon: however recently they've become more popular with some tools (like mypy and pytype) that can read and use them.
2021-05-16 11:01:36	flux__aeon	what's the formatting called? i'd like to read more about it
2021-05-16 11:01:44	bjs	flux__aeon: type annotations, or type hinting
2021-05-16 11:01:49	flux__aeon	awesome thank you
2021-05-16 11:02:06	nedbat	flux__aeon: tl;dr: the annotations don't restrict anything at run-time.  Use a typechecker like mypy to check them.
2021-05-16 11:02:23	bjs	flux__aeon: the syntax for `def` is found at https://docs.python.org/3/reference/compound_stmts.html#function-definitions, it should talk about them and have some links to more details.
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2021-05-16 11:02:50	bjs	flux__aeon: (see the part starting "Parameters may have an annotation of the form ...")
2021-05-16 11:02:52	nedbat	off-topic: is this draft blog post clear? https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202105/cherrypicking_a_pull_request.html
2021-05-16 11:03:17	bjs	nedbat: tut tut using #python to get feedback on something offtopic
2021-05-16 11:03:20	bjs	you should be ashamed
2021-05-16 11:03:32	 *	nedbat is ashamed, and also hoping there is feedback :)
2021-05-16 11:03:51	nedbat	I promise to never do it again until next time!
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2021-05-16 11:04:29	bjs	nedbat: you say the feature branch starts from A but the arrows go from B, is that just a confusing way to express it
2021-05-16 11:04:32	bjs	or am I missing something
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2021-05-16 11:04:47	nedbat	bjs: yes, you missed that I changed the diagram without updating the text! Thanks :)
2021-05-16 11:05:58	flux__aeon	in this: def headline(text: str, align: bool = True) -> str:   is it saying that it should return a string?
2021-05-16 11:06:06	nedbat	flux__aeon: yes
2021-05-16 11:06:09	flux__aeon	awesome
2021-05-16 11:06:13	supakeen	I am confused by the term pull request, I assume you mean 'branch'.
2021-05-16 11:06:22	flux__aeon	but what if the return var could be a string or int or anything.. do you just not hint it?
2021-05-16 11:06:35	nedbat	flux__aeon: you could hint it as "-> Any"
2021-05-16 11:06:41	flux__aeon	:-) amazingggg
2021-05-16 11:06:44	flux__aeon	thank you! i love this
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2021-05-16 11:07:22	bjs	flux__aeon: note "-> object"  might be a better annotation.  There's subtlety here when it comes to annotating things.
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2021-05-16 11:07:31	flux__aeon	makes sense
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2021-05-16 11:07:34	flux__aeon	https://realpython.com/lessons/annotations/
2021-05-16 11:07:36	nedbat	supakeen: i see what you mean
2021-05-16 11:07:43	flux__aeon	the very first example is exactly what i wanted
2021-05-16 11:08:01	foo	The python shell started throwing "SyntaxError: multiple statements found while compiling a single statement"... whereas before when I pasted into the python shell, it would separate them into different statements. Anyone happen to know if this is an iTerm setting in OS X I changed or such? Not sure if the python shell changed or something in iTerm
2021-05-16 11:08:10	supakeen	nedbat: From the title I thought this was going to be about how to cherry pick from the web interface of one-of-the-git-hosters.
2021-05-16 11:08:20	flux__aeon	foo: might be line breaks / paste as tabs or spaces setting
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2021-05-16 11:08:32	bjs	nedbat: so the premise is you have a pull request that fixes something that you want to merge into the release branch _as well as_ the main branch?
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2021-05-16 11:08:37	nedbat	supakeen: i'll have to think about how to make that clearer.  In our case, our work is in GitHub pull requests
2021-05-16 11:08:52	nedbat	bjs: it's already been merged to the main branch, but yes
2021-05-16 11:09:08	foo	flux__aeon: thanks, I wonder where/how that's set
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2021-05-16 11:09:25	bjs	nedbat: oh so you want to go back and say "merge PR #37 into release,  but only that one and not all the stuff that was on main before it"
2021-05-16 11:09:40	flux__aeon	paste it into cpy.pt and we can look
2021-05-16 11:09:46	nedbat	bjs: right, which is why we use cherry-picking
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2021-05-16 11:09:49	flux__aeon	what editor do you use
2021-05-16 11:09:59	bjs	nedbat: and why you can't merge
2021-05-16 11:10:03	nedbat	bjs: right
2021-05-16 11:10:21	nedbat	bjs, supakeen: this is very helpful, thanks
2021-05-16 11:10:36	bjs	nedbat: the PR would've been some branch somewhere,  so long as that branch survives somewhere you could rebase it
2021-05-16 11:10:58	bjs	basically "replay" the PR merge
2021-05-16 11:11:06	nedbat	bjs: but it could be in another fork.
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2021-05-16 11:11:18	bjs	nedbat: that's okay isn't it?
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2021-05-16 11:11:52	nedbat	bjs: to rebase a branch you need to know where it started from. Which surprisingly is something git doesn't track
2021-05-16 11:12:19	nedbat	and in another fork, it could be a commit you don't have in your repo.
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2021-05-16 11:12:45	nedbat	and maybe we should move to -offtopic now :)
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2021-05-16 11:14:22	foo	If I want to calculate the disk usage of a folder with pathlib, any two cents? Trying to count total files and disk usage of a folder. Something similar to du -sh folder/
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2021-05-16 11:16:02	baltazar	hi! I have a decorator that takes any number of Callable[[Ctx, list[str]], T] as parameters, and expects the decorated function to take T1, T2, ..., Tn, which are the return types of the passed functions. Is there a way to tell this to a type checker?
2021-05-16 11:16:40	foo	I could just call du -sh I suppose
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2021-05-16 11:17:41	foo	Oh nevermind. This would make sense: sum(f.stat().st_size for f in root_directory.glob('**/*') if f.is_file())
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2021-05-16 11:28:53	foo	This'll do
2021-05-16 11:28:54	foo	https://bpa.st/AASQ
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2021-05-16 11:34:31	gloomy_desktop	hey, is there any difference at all between returning two things vs. returning a tuple?
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2021-05-16 11:34:47	gloomy_desktop	as in `return a, b` vs `return (a,b)`
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2021-05-16 11:36:11	foo	gloomy_desktop: given this, my hunch is no: https://bpa.st/J26Q
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2021-05-16 11:37:14	adder`	gloomy_desktop, `return a, b` is equivalent to `return (a, b)`
2021-05-16 11:37:59	bjs	gloomy_desktop: a, b is a tuple
2021-05-16 11:38:07	bjs	gloomy_desktop: so `return a, b` and `return (a, b)` are the same thing.
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2021-05-16 11:38:36	gloomy_desktop	right, thanks :)
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2021-05-16 11:56:56	Gurkenglas	torchviz is neat and by solving an np-hard graph problem in my head i can tell which node in a large graph corresponds to a given other tensor. Is there a way to attach variable names to the graph?
2021-05-16 11:58:12	krobzaur	Quick question about pydantic. Is it an anti-pattern to extend data model classes with additional methods? Or would it be better to have a "bare bones" data model class with just data, and store that as an attribute on another class that does interesting things with the data
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2021-05-16 12:02:51	krobzaur	So, I'm referring to the difference between the "ExtendedHotspotModel" and "HotspotModel + Hotspot" classes in this paste: https://bpa.st/3VFA
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2021-05-16 12:04:22	krobzaur	My gut says it makes sense to break up the underlying data model class and the public facing "API" exposed by the Hotspot class that end users would consume. Breaking things up would be similar to what is done in this javascript SDK, which I'm trying to emulate in python: https://github.com/helium/helium-js/blob/master/packages/http/src/models/Hotspot.ts
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2021-05-16 12:21:08	petaflot	:'( https://bpa.st/4AMA
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2021-05-16 12:26:30	stealth_	is there anything for running `@wrapper()` as async function?
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2021-05-16 12:43:47	squirrel	stealth_: i'm curious about the use case of this
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2021-05-16 12:45:05	stealth_	squirrel, for a framework, you would need to open and read files for example, i want to read file in async
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2021-05-16 12:46:59	squirrel	stealth_: do you mean that you want to simply use the decorator on an async function, or do you want to run the decorator function itself in async context?
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2021-05-16 12:47:29	stealth_	squirrel, later
2021-05-16 12:47:36	bbear	hello, I'm having issues with the asyncio api
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2021-05-16 12:47:45	bonhoeffer	i'm moving past the basic script phase into writing python with multiple functions, is there a link to a good naming convention for the default, main, function, i'm still learning __main__ kinda syntax
2021-05-16 12:48:39	bonhoeffer	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#:~:text=Use%20the%20function%20naming%20rules,invoke%20Python's%20name%20mangling%20rules. is cool, but i would just love an example
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2021-05-16 12:50:35	graingert	bbear: Which issue, which API?
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2021-05-16 12:51:00	bbear	graingert, http://vpaste.net/r0ntu
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2021-05-16 12:51:33	graingert	bbear: There's no IO here
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2021-05-16 12:51:51	graingert	bbear: you need to read from a socket or start a thread
2021-05-16 12:52:01	bbear	really ?
2021-05-16 12:52:11	bbear	I just can't run code asynchronously in this fashion ?
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2021-05-16 12:53:39	squirrel	stealth_: i understand that you can do just about anything in a decorator, but still curious about an actual real-life scenario where you'd want that
2021-05-16 12:53:51	BtbN	async code explicitly does not use threads, so you are severely misunderstanding something
2021-05-16 12:54:00	BtbN	The whole point is to run stuff asynchronous on a single thread
2021-05-16 12:54:02	ChrisWarrick	bbear: asyncio in python requries you to be doing IO, typically used for network stuff.
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2021-05-16 12:55:10	bbear	well I'm just running two subprocesses and wait for the return of them.
2021-05-16 12:55:22	bbear	I would like to have them launched in parallel.
2021-05-16 12:55:52	stealth_	squirrel, i thought i just said that
2021-05-16 12:56:38	squirrel	stealth_: why do you want to read a file in a decorator
2021-05-16 12:56:54	bbear	how can I « await » this ?
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2021-05-16 12:57:13	graingert	bbear: show your actual code
2021-05-16 12:57:21	stealth_	squirrel, hmm its for a framework, decorator can load a lot of files, and loading it in a sync its optimal
2021-05-16 12:57:38	bbear	graingert, this is my actual code
2021-05-16 12:57:56	bbear	there's no additional information required to answer my question
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2021-05-16 12:58:10	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Alooc1TP/bbear.py
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2021-05-16 12:58:36	stealth_	squirrel, think of flask, django preparing links/template files on runtime
2021-05-16 12:58:39	graingert	bbear: I don't see any subprocess use in your code
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2021-05-16 12:59:24	bonhoeffer	if you have a def main(): how do you run that so that function executes?
2021-05-16 12:59:41	bonhoeffer	is it best practice to put main() at the bottom of the file?
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2021-05-16 13:00:05	yitz	bonhoeffer: if __name__ == "__main__": main()
2021-05-16 13:00:10	bonhoeffer	or if __name__ == "__main__":
2021-05-16 13:00:10	bonhoeffer	    main() -- yeah -
2021-05-16 13:00:25	yitz	That way you can import it without calling main()
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2021-05-16 13:00:41	yitz	Useful for using it as a lib ... or unit tests
2021-05-16 13:01:01	bonhoeffer	perfect, thanks!
2021-05-16 13:01:36	squirrel	stealth_: a decorator is run typically only once isn't it? so to make some kind of real use of it, you'd have to be regenerating your classes
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2021-05-16 13:02:08	squirrel	doesn't sound like a good idea to me eh
2021-05-16 13:02:17	bbear	graingert, http://vpaste.net/x4SSz
2021-05-16 13:02:27	stealth_	bbear, what you did there is pretty much a synchronous, async comes in play when/if `func_a` gets IO/Lock block and other task it handled at that point. maybe `func_b` if it was run in `.gather()` way
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2021-05-16 13:03:18	graingert	bbear: try async with anyio.create_task_group() and anyio.run_process
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2021-05-16 13:03:43	stealth_	squirrel, well if it was async, it wouldn't waste time on IO
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2021-05-16 13:05:14	squirrel	stealth_: yeah but if it's only ever done once, the gain is minimal
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2021-05-16 13:05:49	bbear	stealth, you mean it gets asynchronous as soon as I start reading/writing a file ?
2021-05-16 13:06:20	stealth_	squirrel, its not done only once, its more like wrapper * 100 files now the time adds up
2021-05-16 13:06:46	Tashtari	Is it considered bad practice to raise an exception inside of a constructor?  I feel like I read that somewhere but I'm not sure.
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2021-05-16 13:07:43	stealth_	bbear, if you have 2 tasks running. task-1 gets blocked cause its waiting for something, now task-2 is run. if there is no blocking/waiting its pretty much synchronous
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2021-05-16 13:07:51	squirrel	stealth_: i mean, each decorator will only be run once
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2021-05-16 13:08:12	tsujp	I have a basic class with a few basic fields, a int, a string etc. I have a dictionary of objects of this class. How can I return the index of a particular object of this list of objects?
2021-05-16 13:08:13	bbear	what about blocking until the process ends ? would it be actual blocking ?
2021-05-16 13:08:32	stealth_	Tashtari, once you raise pretty much everything is stopped! so what does it matter if it was starting an constructor or not.
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2021-05-16 13:08:56	graingert	Tashtari: I prefer to do only assignments in constructors and use @classmethods for validation and IO
2021-05-16 13:09:28	graingert	bbear: did you try anyio.run_process yet?
2021-05-16 13:09:39	stealth_	squirrel, ya, each of those is opening 1+ file and reading.
2021-05-16 13:09:39	bbear	mmh just trying to understand, so basically, my code would run I I used https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-subprocess.html#creating-subprocesses instead of the plain subprocess version ?
2021-05-16 13:09:46	bbear	@graingert, I looked at the doc
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2021-05-16 13:10:06	graingert	Yeah but the asyncio subprocess interface is pretty complicated
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2021-05-16 13:10:36	bbear	yes, so that is when anyio kicks in, it has a nice API and is useful.
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2021-05-16 13:10:42	bbear	Thanks, I will try this
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2021-05-16 13:11:41	Tashtari	graingert: Hm.  Like having __init__ just do assignments of state and nothing else, and then having a @classmethod `new` or something that actually checks things?  I sort of get that if the classmethod is doing I/O, but if the class's data members are never permitted to be something-or-other, isn't that something you might want to validate in __init__?
2021-05-16 13:11:48	Doxin	So is it just me or is the documentation for DatagramTransport.sendto just plain wrong? contrary to what it claims here: https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-protocol.html#asyncio.DatagramTransport.sendto I cannot for the life of me get that to work without passing an address. It steadfastly raises "TypeError: sendto(): AF_INET address must be tuple, not NoneType" when I try.
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2021-05-16 13:14:37	graingert	Tashtari: I use @attr.frozen as much as possible
2021-05-16 13:14:59	stealth_	Doxin, `.sendto(data, (send_to_ip, port))`
2021-05-16 13:15:04	supakeen	The documentation is a bit bad yes, are you passing a remote_addr to your create_datagram_endpoint?
2021-05-16 13:15:16	supakeen	stealth_: It explicitly states that you can pass 'None'.
2021-05-16 13:15:19	stealth_	Doxin, you are doing `.sendto(data, None)` thus the error
2021-05-16 13:15:29	Tashtari	graingert: This `attr` is not something in the standard library, I take it
2021-05-16 13:15:29	DPA	I just noticed that python3 is perfectly fine with me looking up absolutely impossible ranges such as: b'test'[20:5] . Is there some way to make that throw?
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2021-05-16 13:16:01	bonhoeffer	what does EOFError: Ran out of input mean when i load a pickle
2021-05-16 13:16:05	bonhoeffer	too much data??
2021-05-16 13:16:07	stealth_	supakeen, if it was within a class it would know the address
2021-05-16 13:16:22	stealth_	bonhoeffer, end of file error
2021-05-16 13:16:28	Tashtari	DPA: If you define your own __getitem__ in a class that throws when it gets an invalid slice, you can.
2021-05-16 13:16:29	supakeen	stealth_: The documentation doesn't say that, nor does it document how to pass that address.
2021-05-16 13:16:36	squirrel	stealth_: well you don't need to be async to call into async machinery heh https://bpa.st/PLLA
2021-05-16 13:16:47	Tashtari	(I suppose 'invalid' should be in scare quotes there)
2021-05-16 13:16:49	bonhoeffer	stealth_, any tips on what i could do to fix it
2021-05-16 13:16:57	Doxin	stealth_: the documentation clearly states that passing None is a valid thing to do
2021-05-16 13:17:00	supakeen	bonhoeffer: Likely the file isn't what you expect to be in there.
2021-05-16 13:17:04	supakeen	(is it empty?)
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2021-05-16 13:17:51	stealth_	Doxin, depending on how you are using/calling it. then why would it raise that error?
2021-05-16 13:18:03	supakeen	Doxin: Did you see my question?
2021-05-16 13:18:05	bonhoeffer	supakeen, yep, its empty
2021-05-16 13:18:12	bonhoeffer	at least the file is zero - thanks
2021-05-16 13:18:12	Doxin	stealth_: that's the question I'm asking, isn't it?
2021-05-16 13:18:20	Doxin	supakeen: I did not, lemme read up and find it
2021-05-16 13:18:34	Doxin	supakeen: yeah, I am passing the remote_addr
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2021-05-16 13:18:50	Doxin	oh though actually
2021-05-16 13:19:03	Doxin	supakeen: not on the server side obviously, that'll cause trouble I imagine :P
2021-05-16 13:19:30	liak	hi I am trying to import a module from a parent's subdir as in from ../subdir_a/modules import something and I get 'attempted relative import with no known parent package'. I am doing that from subdir_b. What could be wrong? There is an __init__.py in ../subdir_a/modules/
2021-05-16 13:19:46	stealth_	squirrel, i am talking about `async def decorator()`, not callback (wrapper) being async function
2021-05-16 13:20:10	liak	what could be wrong?
2021-05-16 13:20:32	supakeen	If you are doing UDP it's (best) to always explicitly pass the address tuple; it's likely throwing an error when you don't pass a remote_addr during instantiation and this isn't documented well, if that's not the case then maybe make a super small pastebin to reproduce.
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2021-05-16 13:21:12	Doxin	supakeen: no that's definitely it. just puzzling how to deal with this in a nice way then. seems a bit pointless to pass the remote_addr when initializing the whole thing as-is
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2021-05-16 13:21:49	Tashtari	DPA: https://bpa.st/DX5Q
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2021-05-16 13:22:05	stealth_	Doxin, if its a server you don't need to pass it, if its a client you do
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2021-05-16 13:22:34	Doxin	stealth_: I'm trying to keep the server and client implementation the same thing
2021-05-16 13:22:41	supakeen	Doxin: You're probably thinking in terms of TCP where there's a connection you can respond to, that state isn't there with UDP. I'm guessing you want to 'reply' to a message.
2021-05-16 13:22:48	Doxin	supakeen: I'm aware
2021-05-16 13:23:03	Doxin	supakeen: I'm not new to networking, just to how asyncio deals with it :P
2021-05-16 13:23:13	supakeen	asyncio definitely has its warts.
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2021-05-16 13:23:38	Doxin	having a "connection_made" callback when dealing with UDP is certainly... an interesting way to go about it
2021-05-16 13:23:39	stealth_	Doxin, i meant to say other way around.
2021-05-16 13:23:44	Doxin	stealth_: yeah I figured
2021-05-16 13:23:48	squirrel	stealth_: does it matter if that decorator can call async code anyway
2021-05-16 13:23:53	supakeen	Exactly :>
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2021-05-16 13:25:05	stealth_	squirrel, ya, inside `async def decorator(): await file.read()`
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2021-05-16 13:25:29	stealth_	squirrel, open+read but you get the point.
2021-05-16 13:25:38	squirrel	stealth_: you can do it in `dummy` in my example, that is async
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2021-05-16 13:26:30	stealth_	squirrel, @decorator would be outside of `main()`
2021-05-16 13:26:37	Thanatos	Hello everyone
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2021-05-16 13:27:18	squirrel	stealth_: you can't have it outside of main() in a sane way, there's no async context outside of there
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2021-05-16 13:28:07	DPA	Tashtari: Awesome, Thanks!
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2021-05-16 13:28:15	Tashtari	_o>
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2021-05-16 13:29:00	stealth_	squirrel, https://bpa.st/NOYA
2021-05-16 13:29:22	liak	hi I am trying to import a module from a parent's subdir as in from ../subdir_a/modules import something and I get 'attempted relative import with no known parent package'. I am doing that from subdir_b. What could be wrong? There is an __init__.py in ../subdir_a/modules/. What could be wrong?
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2021-05-16 13:29:36	kuhilas[m]	I'm trying to add a signature to pdf so I looked here https://stackabuse.com/working-with-pdfs-in-python-adding-images-and-watermarks/ and have three solutions there for adding another pdf to a pdf. One of them allows me to add an image but I get errors and two other examples allow just adding pdf to pdf so is this what I should do? Wouldn't that mean that I would need to first make a pdf where I put the image of my
2021-05-16 13:29:36	kuhilas[m]	signature and somehow manage to place it in the right spot so that when I merge it with the other pdg it goes to the right spot
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2021-05-16 13:30:50	graingert	liak: How are you running your code
2021-05-16 13:31:04	stealth_	squirrel, multiple `@decorator` would run before `main()` is called, thus wanting to run it in async way.
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2021-05-16 13:31:31	graingert	liak: and show your code and full Traceback too
2021-05-16 13:31:45	liak	graingert: it is a script. I have #!/usr/bin/env python3 directive on top. But it doesn't make a difference even from ipython
2021-05-16 13:31:59	graingert	...
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2021-05-16 13:33:31	graingert	liak: you need to run it with python3 -m parent_dir.subdir_b.module
2021-05-16 13:33:43	bonhoeffer	if i have an array of dicts [{'a':1},{'b':5}] how do i get the value 'a'
2021-05-16 13:34:08	bonhoeffer	array[0].keys()[0]
2021-05-16 13:34:19	bonhoeffer	array[0].keys()[0]
2021-05-16 13:34:24	stealth_	`array[0]['a']`
2021-05-16 13:35:17	bonhoeffer	that assumes i know 'a' -- i want to get an array ['a','b']
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2021-05-16 13:35:38	graingert	next(iter(array[0].keys()))
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2021-05-16 13:36:03	liak	graingert: that means that i hvave to run the script from the first common parent directory which is not convenient. What if I want to run it like ./script?
2021-05-16 13:36:42	graingert	liak: make a __main__.py in your top level package
2021-05-16 13:36:58	graingert	And use sys.argv to dispatch different subcommands
2021-05-16 13:37:25	graingert	Then you can use python -m parent_dir some_script
2021-05-16 13:37:50	bonhoeffer	i can't get 'a' out of dict_keys(['a'])
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2021-05-16 13:38:41	nedbat	bonhoeffer: you want a list of all of the keys in the dicts in that list?
2021-05-16 13:38:52	graingert	bonhoeffer: next(iter(d.keys()))
2021-05-16 13:39:02	bonhoeffer	nedbat, hey, ok I see, got it
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2021-05-16 13:39:31	bonhoeffer	sorry, was missing the lead there
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2021-05-16 13:39:44	bonhoeffer	graingert, +1 (thanks)
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2021-05-16 13:41:29	squirrel	stealth_: you can't do this in a sane way. while importing, there's no async context. there's no system that knows to run coroutines
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2021-05-16 13:42:42	stealth_	squirrel, looks like it, maybe i will have to invent something for it
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2021-05-16 13:47:26	IHasFinger	hi all, been playing with this for a while now and got to this https://bpa.st/UUUQ i basically want to convert  8:53:33 which is hours:minutes:seconds to be minutes. How to do it? thank you
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2021-05-16 13:51:21	ioxzev1z	IHasFinger, (8*60) + 53 + (33 / 60) ?
2021-05-16 13:52:19	IHasFinger	ioxzev1z, i dont get it
2021-05-16 13:52:29	ioxzev1z	x:y:z = (x * 60) + y + (z / 60)
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2021-05-16 13:56:30	ioxzev1z	IHasFinger, or you can convert to seconds, then divide by 60 to get minutes.
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2021-05-16 13:57:31	IHasFinger	ioxzev1z, alright just 2 question 1 does datetime have something to pass in the string of the hour mins and seconds and it will give you seconds? also i tried to split those up like this
2021-05-16 13:58:05	IHasFinger	t1 =sum(i*j for i, j in zip(map(int, diff.split(':')), factors)) but got an error
2021-05-16 13:58:06	IHasFinger	AttributeError: 'datetime.timedelta' object has no attribute 'split'
2021-05-16 13:58:10	IHasFinger	factors = (60, 1, 1/60)
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2021-05-16 14:02:00	ioxzev1z	Why not just diff.split(":"), assuming diff = "8:53:33", giving you a list
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2021-05-16 14:03:47	IHasFinger	ioxzev1z, actually comes out has ['8', '53', '33']
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2021-05-16 14:04:21	ioxzev1z	Right, which is what you want, no?
2021-05-16 14:04:32	IHasFinger	yes :) thank you
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2021-05-16 14:05:41	ioxzev1z	Then just do the math on that list to get minutes
2021-05-16 14:06:30	f8e4	how do you contract a 2d list floats into one sum?
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2021-05-16 14:08:51	IHasFinger	ioxzev1z, this is what I have been trying to achieved seen morning, bare in mind I am still new to python. I basically have a utc unix timestamp. I wanted to find the different between that unix timestamp and the current utc time. https://bpa.st/6QAA this works but i feel like it can be improved much better
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2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Topic for #python is "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:59
2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Channel #python: 1643 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1643 normals)
2021-05-16 14:15:43	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
2021-05-16 14:15:58	BrenBarn	IHasFinger: no need to do all that, use `datetime.fromtimestamp()` (https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp)
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2021-05-16 14:18:08	IHasFinger	BrenBarn, can you share an example please using my code. I think i tried that but had not luck with it. spend like 4 hours and have tried different things
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2021-05-16 14:21:14	dr_luigi	Hey guys is there any easy way to find the relevant commits/PRs for a PEP?
2021-05-16 14:21:30	 *	BrenBarn < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/qFABEElIKyQdLGXXJKkbdzvT/message.txt >
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2021-05-16 14:21:45	BrenBarn	(include the timezone in the second one if you want)
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2021-05-16 14:27:08	pyusr	Python 3.9.4, why does work: ret: dict[tuple(int, int), str] = {} but this does not ? def f(grid: dict[tuple(int, int), str]) -> str:
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2021-05-16 14:27:40	phy1729	should be tuple[int, int]
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2021-05-16 14:28:29	pyusr	cool, why does the first statment work though ?
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2021-05-16 14:29:15	phy1729	Not real clear, but I think annotations on internal variable matter less than annotations on arguments
2021-05-16 14:29:16	redsh	Neither should.
2021-05-16 14:29:46	redsh	It may, but it's incorrect.
2021-05-16 14:30:20	IHasFinger	BrenBarn, i tried that like https://bpa.st/EODQ but got ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '16.964037' in line 6 which is where i was stuck
2021-05-16 14:30:37	pyusr	redsh: so which is the correct one ?
2021-05-16 14:31:00	redsh	The correct way to represent a tuple with two integers is tuple[int, int]
2021-05-16 14:31:16	redsh	So, dict[tuple[int, int], str]
2021-05-16 14:31:31	pyusr	ahh, k, tnx
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2021-05-16 14:32:25	redsh	If it's tuple(foo), it is understood as you trying to convert an iterable foo into a tuple. If it's tuple[foo], it's understood to be a type annotation for a tuple with an element of type foo.
2021-05-16 14:32:25	pyusr	welp, i'm going back to think why I need to pay 100$ to watch Pycon US
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2021-05-16 14:33:17	redsh	tuple(x, y) is not currently valid.
2021-05-16 14:33:21	BrenBarn	IHasFinger: Then instead of your `map`, just take your `diff` object and do `diff.total_seconds()/60`
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2021-05-16 14:36:09	IHasFinger	BrenBarn, brillant, thank you
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2021-05-16 14:55:36	IHasFinger	BrenBarn, now i remember why i did not use it
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2021-05-16 14:55:40	IHasFinger	because it need to be utc
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2021-05-16 14:55:57	IHasFinger	datetime.fromtimestamp will use my local time
2021-05-16 14:56:10	guriya	Can julia lang come close to python when it comes to data analysis?
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2021-05-16 15:02:52	dostoyevsky	guriya: Atm it's mostly used by the mit people to teach simulations... so not much data analysis available, like scikit or the like
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2021-05-16 15:03:25	dostoyevsky	but the simulations are quite interesting and have no direct equivalent in python
2021-05-16 15:05:06	guriya	dostoyevsky came here from MIT video https://video.odl.mit.edu/videos/6fd61898f9c841bfbf79c7163a2c960d/
2021-05-16 15:05:31	dostoyevsky	How come python has like four versions on debian, depending on whether I want distutils, gi, cheaders?  Why can't those be part of the default install?  Also will python-gi overwrite python-distutils?
2021-05-16 15:07:04	dostoyevsky	guriya: yeah, some things are possible, but e.g. I cannot run some of the cookbooks anymore from spring 2020 from the lectures with julia 1.6.0 -- it's not stable ... they are currently working on that I think
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2021-05-16 15:08:36	guriya	dostoyevsky (y)
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2021-05-16 15:09:21	dostoyevsky	in python it's very common to pin the versions of your packages in requirements.txt -- julia started doing something similar in the spring 21 lectures... I guess that might bring more stability ... but python has been doing that for a long time, and it works quite well
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2021-05-16 15:09:57	dostoyevsky	s/cookbooks/notebooks/ even
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2021-05-16 15:14:36	bjs	redsh: what's wrong with tuple[int, int] ?
2021-05-16 15:14:51	redsh	bjs: Nothing, what do you mean?
2021-05-16 15:15:04	altendky	working on either a start at or a workaround for https://github.com/prompt-toolkit/python-prompt-toolkit/issues/1436.  i feel like i'm overlooking something probably obvious.  how do you get "the terminal width" in prompt_toolkit?  in reality, the width of a specific window would probably be better, but maybe you get the idea.
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2021-05-16 15:15:47	bjs	redsh: oh maybe I misread
2021-05-16 15:16:22	bjs	my mistake
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2021-05-16 15:31:33	DPA	I have an async generator function feeding me compressed data (gzip, compress, deflate, br) (I extract that from some HTTP traffic).
2021-05-16 15:31:33	DPA	Now I need some decoder to feed that data to, and some way to get any decrypted data as soon possible, so I can yield the decoded data.
2021-05-16 15:31:33	DPA	In other words, I want to make an async generator decoding and then returning stuff it got from another async generator.
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2021-05-16 15:36:24	altendky	looks like `application.output.get_size()` at least gets some numbers
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2021-05-16 15:39:44	--	Topic for #python is "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-16 15:39:44	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:59
2021-05-16 15:39:44	--	Channel #python: 1643 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1643 normals)
2021-05-16 15:39:48	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Topic for #python is "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:18:59
2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Channel #python: 1645 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1645 normals)
2021-05-16 15:42:51	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-05-16 15:46:31	DPA	I figured it out, it seams at least for gzip, compress and deflate, I can probably use zlib.
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2021-05-16 15:51:34	axisys	how do I send a byte-like object? https://dpaste.org/uXOr/slim
2021-05-16 15:52:01	bjs	axisys: s.send(request.encode("utf-8"))   # for e.g.
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2021-05-16 15:52:40	axisys	bjs: ok
2021-05-16 15:52:51	bjs	axisys: some_str.encode(some_encoding) takes text (a str) and turns it into a `bytes` object,  which things like sockets and files can read/write.
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2021-05-16 15:53:19	axisys	bjs: thanks a lot!
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2021-05-16 16:01:06	stealth_	axisys, `request = f"GET {path} HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n".encode()`
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2021-05-16 16:17:57	RandomGuyOnIrc	I downloaded this code https://www.yahoo.com/news/t-talks-combine-content-assets-140611696.html, put in my own keys, and tried to run it.  My cursor changes to a plus, +, and it seems to be waiting for my to highlight something. The code never executes. Can anyone suggest how I can get it to run the way it was originally described here:
2021-05-16 16:18:02	RandomGuyOnIrc	https://medium.com/citrispolicylab/a-simple-guide-to-scrape-tweets-using-python-ba7c691b6efa   It is supposed to create a csv file of tweets.  If I ctrl-c to exit out, I get this error: https://medium.com/citrispolicylab/a-simple-guide-to-scrape-tweets-using-python-ba7c691b6efa
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2021-05-16 16:18:38	RandomGuyOnIrc	ooops,  this error: https://termbin.com/s1n2
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2021-05-16 16:23:17	nedbat	RandomGuyOnIrc: can you link us to your actual code?
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2021-05-16 16:24:02	Yhg1s	RandomGuyOnIrc: you're running a .py file without a shebang line. It's not actually executing it as Python, but as shell, and 'import' is a command that does screen grabbing.
2021-05-16 16:24:40	Yhg1s	RandomGuyOnIrc: add a shebang line to the .py file, or run it with 'python3 python_Twitter_scrap.py'.
2021-05-16 16:25:17	RandomGuyOnIrc	Yhg1s: silly me. thanks
2021-05-16 16:25:35	RandomGuyOnIrc	nedbat: that is my actual code, exept I have my keys in there
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2021-05-16 16:26:22	Yhg1s	RandomGuyOnIrc: your 'this code' link is a Yahoo article on a merger of AT&T and Discovery.
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2021-05-16 16:28:09	RandomGuyOnIrc	ooops
2021-05-16 16:28:13	RandomGuyOnIrc	sigh
2021-05-16 16:28:30	RandomGuyOnIrc	https://github.com/Nonnecke/ScrapingTweets/blob/master/python_Twitter_scrape
2021-05-16 16:28:34	RandomGuyOnIrc	thaat is the code
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2021-05-16 16:52:29	Ouranos	hi!
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2021-05-16 16:53:16	graingert	RandomGuyOnIrc: there's no #!
2021-05-16 16:53:22	nedbat	Ouranos: hi!
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2021-05-16 16:53:59	Ouranos	I started doing some python on sololearn and I think my weakness is that I don't have enough problems to solve as I learn code.
2021-05-16 16:54:10	Ouranos	Any places where I can practice little problems and get feedback like on sololeanr?
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2021-05-16 16:55:26	stormbytes	is there really no one-line, simple way to convert a json string into a class-like object in python?
2021-05-16 16:55:48	stormbytes	I'm thinking something like JSON.parse()
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2021-05-16 16:57:34	phy1729	json.loads
2021-05-16 16:57:42	nedbat	stormbytes: you can turn it into a list/dict structure with json.load or json.loads
2021-05-16 16:58:15	graingert	stormbytes: cattrs, pydantic and marshmallow are good choices
2021-05-16 16:58:34	stormbytes	I saw that, was looking for an object with attributes accessed through .notation
2021-05-16 16:58:55	nedbat	stormbytes: graingert's answer has libraries that can help with that.
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2021-05-16 16:59:00	graingert	Yeah so make a class with @attr.frozen and cattrs can fill it in for you
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2021-05-16 16:59:34	stormbytes	graingert why would I need to make a class?
2021-05-16 16:59:47	graingert	To populate it with unstructured data
2021-05-16 17:00:07	graingert	Or semi-structured data
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2021-05-16 17:00:30	nedbat	stormbytes: there are also libraries that make the dot access automatic, like https://pypi.org/project/dotmap/
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2021-05-16 17:01:18	graingert	But it's not very idiomatic
2021-05-16 17:01:25	nedbat	graingert: how do you mean?
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2021-05-16 17:01:32	stormbytes	nedbat yeah like that, dotmap
2021-05-16 17:01:32	graingert	And will confuse tooling and anyone reading the code
2021-05-16 17:01:48	stormbytes	confuse the tooling?
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2021-05-16 17:01:55	nedbat	graingert: I think stormbytes is looking for ad-hoc loading of json, not populating defined classes.
2021-05-16 17:01:57	graingert	People expect . lookups to work differently than object subscript
2021-05-16 17:02:20	stormbytes	In this day and age not to have a way of converting json into a dot-accessible object seems a bit out of date
2021-05-16 17:02:25	graingert	stormbytes: eg mypy and pylint
2021-05-16 17:02:34	nedbat	stormbytes: let's please not go down this path.
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2021-05-16 17:02:40	stormbytes	ok
2021-05-16 17:02:45	graingert	stormbytes: people have different expectations of what [ and . do
2021-05-16 17:02:48	nedbat	stormbytes: there are definitely libraries that will do what you want.
2021-05-16 17:02:58	stormbytes	that'll work
2021-05-16 17:03:12	nedbat	stormbytes: JS treats [ and . the same.  Python does not.
2021-05-16 17:03:25	graingert	This is a feature not an impediment
2021-05-16 17:03:53	stormbytes	look, i'm just wanting to get from point-a, to point b.
2021-05-16 17:04:00	graingert	Yeah we know!
2021-05-16 17:04:03	nedbat	stormbytes: JS has some pain because of their choice, and Python has some pain because of theirs
2021-05-16 17:04:14	stormbytes	just seems like everything so far needs a 2 year comp-sci degree to appreciate.
2021-05-16 17:04:20	nedbat	stormbytes: it turns out there will be some learning along the way from a to b.
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2021-05-16 17:04:22	graingert	But you will be subverting the expectations of the people reading your code
2021-05-16 17:04:26	stormbytes	I'm more a whopper kind of guy
2021-05-16 17:04:36	nedbat	stormbytes: whopper?
2021-05-16 17:04:44	stormbytes	whopper = burger king
2021-05-16 17:04:51	nedbat	stormbytes: burger flipper
2021-05-16 17:04:56	stormbytes	lol no
2021-05-16 17:05:01	stormbytes	i mean.. simple, cheap, quick and filling
2021-05-16 17:05:16	nedbat	stormbytes: you learned JS at one point.  You can learn Python
2021-05-16 17:05:31	stormbytes	as opposed to getting dressed, tie and all, going to some fancy french place, can't even read the menu much less understand anything
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2021-05-16 17:05:40	nedbat	stormbytes: but we've said this before: it will be different.
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2021-05-16 17:05:47	stormbytes	nedbat I get it.
2021-05-16 17:05:55	graingert	You think you want it but you don't
2021-05-16 17:05:55	stormbytes	javascript isn't a real language anyway
2021-05-16 17:06:03	graingert	JavaScript is pretty great tbh
2021-05-16 17:06:06	nedbat	stormbytes: luckily we don't have to debate that.
2021-05-16 17:06:06	stormbytes	its cobbled together
2021-05-16 17:06:13	stormbytes	lol yeah
2021-05-16 17:06:35	graingert	stormbytes: have a go at cattrs, I think you'll like it
2021-05-16 17:06:38	stormbytes	I switched over for a couple of reasons: 1) no (usable) ORM in node
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2021-05-16 17:06:50	graingert	I like typeorm fwiw
2021-05-16 17:06:53	stormbytes	2) I hate-hate-hate-hate-hate the async model and never understood it
2021-05-16 17:07:11	graingert	It's just callbacks
2021-05-16 17:07:15	graingert	It's not that bad
2021-05-16 17:07:27	nedbat	graingert: does cattrs have a way to create objects without defining the class first? That is, from ad-hoc JSON?
2021-05-16 17:07:42	stormbytes	my brain can't process async. I don't understand how to structure the code, how to plan/see it.
2021-05-16 17:07:49	graingert	No you need to define the classes
2021-05-16 17:08:08	stormbytes	also js has no classes, not really at least
2021-05-16 17:08:12	nedbat	graingert: this is the key distinction between what stormbytes is looking for, and what you are suggesting.
2021-05-16 17:08:26	graingert	Right I know that
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2021-05-16 17:08:46	nedbat	graingert: ok, so you understand why they won't take your suggestion :)
2021-05-16 17:09:01	stormbytes	nedbat I was looking for a magic function that turns {"a":"hello","b":"biden"} into foo.a = "hello", foo.b="biden"
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2021-05-16 17:09:17	nedbat	stormbytes: right, i know.
2021-05-16 17:09:20	graingert	I just think stormbytes will have more fun with cattrs than dotmap
2021-05-16 17:09:21	phy1729	stormbytes: in general (at least while learning a new language) it is often best to conform to the language's conventions rather than forcing it to conform to yours
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2021-05-16 17:09:54	stormbytes	phy1729 that's a fair point, how would you suggest I go about turning a dictionary into a dottable class?
2021-05-16 17:10:18	BrenBarn	Why do you need it to be dottable though?
2021-05-16 17:10:18	phy1729	I simply wouldn't and just use the dictionary notation
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2021-05-16 17:10:27	stormbytes	phy1729 I fully get that in the long run I'm not going to have much fun trying to bend python to whatever conventions I am used to.
2021-05-16 17:10:30	BrenBarn	Like if you want to get from point A to point B, using dot notation is just a side road
2021-05-16 17:10:50	graingert	stormbytes: There's also SimpleNamespace
2021-05-16 17:11:00	stormbytes	phy1729 you know, that's probably simpler.
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2021-05-16 17:11:12	stormbytes	ok python. you win.
2021-05-16 17:11:19	graingert	https://docs.python.org/3/library/types.html#types.SimpleNamespace
2021-05-16 17:11:28	stormbytes	python is totally sugar-free, vegan.
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2021-05-16 17:11:48	nedbat	stormbytes: dotmap does exactly what you want, so you have choices now.
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2021-05-16 17:11:52	stormbytes	i guess whatever i need to do, will just see how python wants me to go about it.
2021-05-16 17:11:52	graingert	I don't really understand your attitude here stormbytes
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2021-05-16 17:12:06	graingert	stormbytes: is that really so bad?
2021-05-16 17:12:09	stormbytes	grainbert: ever code any ruby?
2021-05-16 17:12:16	stormbytes	*graingert (sorry)
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2021-05-16 17:12:19	graingert	Yeah I'm not keen
2021-05-16 17:12:25	nedbat	stormbytes: type this: g r a i <tab>
2021-05-16 17:12:38	graingert	I don't like the module system
2021-05-16 17:12:45	stormbytes	nedbat lol where were you 20 years ago!??!?!
2021-05-16 17:13:09	graingert	Pretty sure I told you about tab completion today stormbytes
2021-05-16 17:13:11	stormbytes	graingert ruby is just a pleasure to write. Its like using a Mac vs. Linux
2021-05-16 17:13:22	graingert	I've been told that
2021-05-16 17:13:29	stormbytes	graingert apologies, i must've missed that
2021-05-16 17:13:48	gordonjcp	I don't get ruby at all
2021-05-16 17:14:05	gordonjcp	I think I got put off trying to learn it for a RoR project where the documentation was terrible
2021-05-16 17:14:27	graingert	The RoR docs aren't terrible, it's just that the Django tutorial is excellent
2021-05-16 17:14:33	gordonjcp	stormbytes: is Ruby the one where the official documentation was some weirdass comic where a cartoon dog was sad about bad code?
2021-05-16 17:14:35	stormbytes	gordonjcp its not about 'getting' ruby, its about the idea of a language that just flows. Its completely consistent, elegant and intuitive.
2021-05-16 17:14:49	stormbytes	gordonjcp uhhhh mayeb?
2021-05-16 17:14:50	gordonjcp	stormbytes: it's not in any way intuitive, otherwise it wouldn't need a manual
2021-05-16 17:14:58	gordonjcp	"Why's Poignant Guide" that was it
2021-05-16 17:15:06	gordonjcp	fucking stupid patronising shit
2021-05-16 17:15:22	stormbytes	i'm sad that ruby fell out of fashion
2021-05-16 17:15:38	gordonjcp	and it seemed like half the documentation was in the form of videos that you had to subscribe to some paid-for site to watch
2021-05-16 17:15:51	stormbytes	ruby docs sucked :)
2021-05-16 17:15:54	stormbytes	rdocs
2021-05-16 17:16:05	gordonjcp	and what wasn't a stupid video of some guy yakking away in a thick accent, was basically unreadable
2021-05-16 17:16:11	stormbytes	t'was mostly fueled by the rails craze back in the day
2021-05-16 17:16:26	gordonjcp	still
2021-05-16 17:16:28	gordonjcp	it's not Java
2021-05-16 17:16:39	gordonjcp	so there's that
2021-05-16 17:16:55	stormbytes	nedbat graingert i don't plan to swim upstream. Will just stick with dictionaries, but frankly i think dot-notation is more elegant and easier to type
2021-05-16 17:17:07	gordonjcp	stormbytes: that's a C-ism
2021-05-16 17:17:15	stormbytes	gordonjcp C-ism?
2021-05-16 17:17:18	stormbytes	ohh
2021-05-16 17:17:22	stormbytes	dot notaiton
2021-05-16 17:17:23	nedbat	stormbytes: if you need to access a lot of elements, dot access is nicer, and I use it sometimes on that kind of data.
2021-05-16 17:17:24	gordonjcp	stormbytes: if you can teach yourself to not write C code in Python like I do, you'll do okay
2021-05-16 17:17:31	BrenBarn	the thing is that like people said before, it's not about elegant and easier, in Python dot and brackets are for different things
2021-05-16 17:17:56	graingert	Right it's easier to type because it should be easier for the interpreter to execute.  that's why it's harder to do object subscript
2021-05-16 17:18:20	BrenBarn	there are libraries that can shunt between one and the other but it's not like JS where they're just different ways of expressing the same thing
2021-05-16 17:18:26	stormbytes	BrenBarn I imagine there's a reason for everything. That doesn't take away form the value of elegant design
2021-05-16 17:19:08	BrenBarn	Python is a pretty elegant design overall
2021-05-16 17:19:18	stormbytes	graingert I'm not following what you're saying about object subscript
2021-05-16 17:19:35	BrenBarn	I wouldn't say it's about being easier for the interpreter to execute
2021-05-16 17:19:44	graingert	stormbytes: That's the fancy name for [
2021-05-16 17:19:58	stormbytes	ah
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2021-05-16 17:20:59	stormbytes	i started out with php some decades ago. Always found that clunky. When I moved to Ruby it felt like I just bought a mac :)
2021-05-16 17:21:02	BrenBarn	it's more like `.` is for accessing names from a fixed, closed set (like method names), and `[]` is for accessing an open-ended world of names (like arbitrary data)
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2021-05-16 17:25:36	bjs	graingert: I mean you know as well as anyone that attribute lookup in Python is more complicated than getitem
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2021-05-16 17:26:30	bjs	and as you well know,  dot access for method lookups are far from easy for Python to execute ...
2021-05-16 17:26:45	graingert	bjs: Depends on the python interpreter
2021-05-16 17:26:45	bjs	(as an example)
2021-05-16 17:27:06	graingert	Also @attr.frozen which was the "alternative" I suggested is slotted
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2021-05-16 17:30:59	bjs	graingert: I'm referring to dot accessing being "easier for the interpreter to execute".  If you only meant it with respect to __slots__,  then perhaps that should have been more clear so as your comment didn't seem to be overgeneralizing the language?
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2021-05-16 17:31:17	brutamontes	yo any1 avaiable to help me code a bit?
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2021-05-16 17:31:54	peaceguy	help you in what way?
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2021-05-16 17:32:34	brutamontes	in this code: https://bpa.st/VPIA
2021-05-16 17:32:49	brutamontes	how do i make it do the request hello
2021-05-16 17:32:53	brutamontes	on google
2021-05-16 17:33:34	amo	{"request_info": {"success": false, "message": "Error whilst validating Search: 'q' parameter is required."}}
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2021-05-16 17:34:05	brutamontes	yeah i saw that
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2021-05-16 17:34:11	graingert	brutamontes: You exposed your API key...
2021-05-16 17:34:16	amo	there's your answer
2021-05-16 17:34:18	brutamontes	i can change it
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2021-05-16 17:34:20	graingert	You should probably make a new one
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2021-05-16 17:34:38	brutamontes	i have no idea on how to implement the 1 parameter
2021-05-16 17:34:40	brutamontes	q*
2021-05-16 17:35:29	brutamontes	how can i do it?
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2021-05-16 17:35:51	amo	you could try with a "q": "how fast can a swallow fly"
2021-05-16 17:35:55	amo	in your params
2021-05-16 17:36:45	brutamontes	    "q": "how fast can a swallow fly"
2021-05-16 17:36:45	brutamontes	       ^
2021-05-16 17:36:45	brutamontes	SyntaxError: invalid syntax
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2021-05-16 17:37:38	amo	try with a , at the end of the line
2021-05-16 17:37:42	amo	before
2021-05-16 17:38:30	brutamontes	thanks
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2021-05-16 17:38:34	amo	welcome
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2021-05-16 18:00:20	CordialCatto	what's a good way to deal with multiple options from argparse?  is there a better way than using if/else?
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2021-05-16 18:04:01	nedbat	CordialCatto: what do you mean by multiple options
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2021-05-16 18:05:52	CordialCatto	doing different things based on which commandline options are passed to the script/program
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2021-05-16 18:06:43	CordialCatto	easy to end up with multiple levels of nested if/else with only 2-3 arguments
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2021-05-16 18:06:56	graingert	CordialCatto: show an example?
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2021-05-16 18:08:33	CordialCatto	let's say I pass three arguments - x, y, z - and each can have multiple values, say 0-4, and then I want my program to do different things based on these values and combinations
2021-05-16 18:08:44	graingert	show your code?
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2021-05-16 18:10:28	CordialCatto	https://bpa.st/TMZQ
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2021-05-16 18:11:14	graingert	CordialCatto:
2021-05-16 18:11:15	graingert	https://refactoring.com/catalog/replaceNestedConditionalWithGuardClauses.html
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2021-05-16 18:19:28	CordialCatto	perhaps I can replace some for-loops with a list comprehension? [print(x) for x in y], but not sure how to simplify more
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2021-05-16 18:22:56	amo	which format do you prefer when adding metadata to single modules? __author__ var? epydoc style in module docstring? reStructuredText?
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2021-05-16 18:28:04	graingert	amo: None of the above?
2021-05-16 18:28:31	graingert	amo: PEP 621 metadata or bust
2021-05-16 18:28:43	graingert	amo: the __version__ pep died
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2021-05-16 18:29:04	graingert	And technically you're not allowed to use __variables__ without explicit permission
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2021-05-16 18:30:09	brutamontes	How to do a increment on the page value? so that each result is from page 2 - 3 - 4
2021-05-16 18:30:10	brutamontes	tried these, neither worked: https://bpa.st/ZV2A       -         https://bpa.st/H2MA
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2021-05-16 18:30:53	jamea	hi all
2021-05-16 18:30:59	brutamontes	hi
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2021-05-16 18:31:06	jamea	i use kivy why: https://paste.debian.net/1197813/  return nothing?   UrlRequest(link    but  requests.get(link)  return the correct response?
2021-05-16 18:31:19	amo	<graingert> And technically you're not allowed to use __variables__ without explicit permission <- care to explain?
2021-05-16 18:31:43	jamea	graingert any advice?
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2021-05-16 18:32:14	brutamontes	simple thing: How to do a increment on the page value? so that each result is from page 2 - 3 - 4 tried these, neither worked: https://bpa.st/ZV2A  https://bpa.st/H2MA
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2021-05-16 18:32:43	amo	also, i don't see how https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0287/ has become obsolete only because of yet another metadata format
2021-05-16 18:34:04	amo	plus, there's http://web.archive.org/web/20111010053227/http://jaynes.colorado.edu/PythonGuidelines.html#module_formatting
2021-05-16 18:34:12	Yhg1s	graingert: 'technically' according to what? xD
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2021-05-16 18:34:50	brutamontes	any help?
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2021-05-16 18:35:06	CordialCatto	brutamontes: add this to loop - params['page'] = lis[i], remove i += 2
2021-05-16 18:35:18	graingert	> Any use of __*__ names, in any context, that does not follow explicitly documented use, is subject to breakage without warning.
2021-05-16 18:35:30	graingert	https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#reserved-classes-of-identifiers
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2021-05-16 18:37:02	graingert	jamea: It's async so you only get the result in the callback, use httpx.AsyncClient for an async def interface
2021-05-16 18:37:13	graingert	Yhg1s: ^ the docs
2021-05-16 18:38:14	graingert	amo: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ got rejected recently
2021-05-16 18:38:16	ammar2	huh, interesting
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2021-05-16 18:38:32	ammar2	I wonder what sort of breakage could happen with custom dunder names
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2021-05-16 18:39:06	graingert	PEP8 implies existence of __version__ and __author__ but in actual fact they're reserved by the interpreter
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2021-05-16 18:39:41	graingert	PEP 621 is the way of defining metadata
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2021-05-16 18:39:57	Yhg1s	graingert: 'subject to breakage' isn't the same as 'you need permission
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2021-05-16 18:40:39	amo	sounds more like "if you use it and it breaks, it's your fault, not ours"
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2021-05-16 18:41:02	graingert	Right but it's literally inadvisable
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2021-05-16 18:42:29	graingert	Imho cPython should document and acknowledge that __author__ and __version__ are old names used by old modules squatting names they had no right to but cPython won't ever break them
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2021-05-16 18:43:11	graingert	And __table_name__
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2021-05-16 18:46:52	graingert	There should be a little dunder amnesty
2021-05-16 18:47:18	graingert	And anyone can admit to their squatting and get them permitted, but after that no more
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2021-05-16 18:48:06	brutamontes	CordialCatto: that only imcrements on the 2-3 run the 1 and 2 are the same
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2021-05-16 18:50:04	jamea	graingert: you recommend use httpx.AsyncClient   replacing : UrlRequest(link   ?
2021-05-16 18:50:22	Yhg1s	graingert: or, we'll just let everyone do whatever and if CPython has a need for something new, we pick something that doesn't cause problems in any well-known package.c
2021-05-16 18:50:56	graingert	jamea: yes UrlRequest seems callback based?
2021-05-16 18:51:11	graingert	jamea: and you're using async defs elsewhere?
2021-05-16 18:51:26	graingert	Yhg1s: well the docs should be updated regardless
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2021-05-16 18:52:37	CordialCatto	brutamontes: https://bpa.st/S3XA, depends on if pages begin at 0 or 1, if 1 then add 1 to i
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2021-05-16 18:55:29	graingert	jamea: You could do: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5zlsrR7R
2021-05-16 18:55:37	graingert	But httpx seems easier to me
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2021-05-16 18:56:33	jamea	ok, thanks
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2021-05-16 18:59:03	Samian	anyone know of any good audio books for python?
2021-05-16 18:59:19	ranran8888	Strange problem if I run each one separately it works if I run them all I get the two graphs not good https://dpaste.org/32hb
2021-05-16 18:59:31	Samian	"you can't have audio books for programming language books" I can already predict people thinking
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2021-05-16 19:00:11	Samian	maybe you can't. but so what I like audio books. I like hearing full and complete sentence that form well written paragraphs that form well written chapters on computer science topics.
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2021-05-16 19:02:45	amo	Samian, try talk python to me and python bytes, those are almost as good as audio books
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2021-05-16 19:03:17	Samian	talk python?
2021-05-16 19:03:18	ChrisWarrick	Samian: I’d make a distinction between "python books" and "CS books"
2021-05-16 19:03:39	amo	Samian, https://talkpython.fm/
2021-05-16 19:03:52	Samian	no podcasts please. podcasts contain language with umm uhh, stutter words, changing sentences mid sentences, etc.
2021-05-16 19:04:06	Samian	it's inferior to correct complete sentences
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2021-05-16 19:04:57	CordialCatto	maybe use text-to-speech on a python book? :P
2021-05-16 19:05:15	Samian	ChrisWarrick, maybe the distinction is appropriate, but it doesn't matter. i want to listen to an audio book on python
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2021-05-16 19:06:02	ChrisWarrick	the distinction is important, because I doubt many audio books on python exist. Audio books on general CS topics might exist, but they would omit any code examples, which would make them less useful than the text version.
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2021-05-16 19:07:22	Samian	ChrisWarrick,  on my blinkist app, I'm seeing 5
2021-05-16 19:08:11	brutamontes	guys: the way it is, is will always do page=0 page=1 page=2, independently of the values on list, how do make it so that the page is the value in lis respectivaly? https://bpa.st/67KA
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2021-05-16 19:08:41	brutamontes	last thing* i promise
2021-05-16 19:09:23	CordialCatto	brutamontes: first thing in the loop, look what it does
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2021-05-16 19:09:43	brutamontes	looks for the value in lis
2021-05-16 19:09:50	CordialCatto	nope
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2021-05-16 19:10:02	brutamontes	range len
2021-05-16 19:10:05	brutamontes	»
2021-05-16 19:10:06	brutamontes	?
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2021-05-16 19:10:12	CordialCatto	below that
2021-05-16 19:10:19	brutamontes	params['page'] = i
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2021-05-16 19:11:18	brutamontes	so the value in lis is discarted
2021-05-16 19:11:20	oznt	Hi Guys, I have a problem with Python3.X in gentoo, which I find even hard to formulate. Python2 does not have the issue and Python3 on ubuntu also. Here is a paste: https://pastebin.com/uce4GFEb. Can you tell why am I getting * NameError: name 'E' is not defined in Python3 but not in Python2?
2021-05-16 19:11:22	infobob	https://bpaste.net/NGPA (repasted for oznt)
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2021-05-16 19:12:16	oznt	just to make sure, it's not only an issue with Gentoo. I compiled Python3.9 from sources, and I have the same issue. I can't access the last variable in the Exception block
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2021-05-16 19:13:04	graingert	oznt: Python 3 deletes the exception
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2021-05-16 19:13:51	graingert	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/aUCeTnUc/foo.py
2021-05-16 19:13:57	graingert	oznt: ^ like that
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2021-05-16 19:14:27	oznt	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38672560/why-cant-pdb-access-a-variable-containing-an-exception
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2021-05-16 19:14:33	oznt	found this too
2021-05-16 19:14:41	oznt	that's a real new thing to me
2021-05-16 19:14:43	graingert	oznt: Because e.__traceback__ would result in a cycle preventing GC
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2021-05-16 19:15:20	graingert	Not sure why pdb exits the block
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2021-05-16 19:15:40	oznt	itesting to know that Ubunutu's Pdb does not behave like  ...
2021-05-16 19:15:44	oznt	itesting to know that Ubunutu's Pdb does not behave like  this ...
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2021-05-16 19:16:20	Samian	Anyone know of a good interactive site for learning python? I want to literally memorize the python language.  I'm tired of looking stuff up like, for example, writing a 2d array of numbers to a text file. I want to have memorized how to do that.
2021-05-16 19:16:54	Samian	the difference in productivity will be like the difference between me trying to speak french looking each word up in a translation dictionary versus speaking french after learning to speak french fluently. I think my productivity will 10x
2021-05-16 19:16:56	oznt	Samian, just write a lot of code. This will become natural
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2021-05-16 19:17:53	Samian	oznt,  no I disagree. I think focusing on specific topics one at a time will cause me to memorize faster.
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2021-05-16 19:18:03	Samian	oznt,  for example, specifically focusing on file i/o
2021-05-16 19:18:35	Samian	write characters to file. write numbers to use. Use the "with" statement. Do it without using the with statement.  use 'r'. use 'w' in the open statement. Write an example using every option
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2021-05-16 19:19:11	Samian	so a weekending focusing on nothing but file i/o will engrain it into my memory faster than disorganized look-it-up-as-I-need-it coding.
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2021-05-16 19:20:32	ranran8888	Strange problem if I run each one separately it works if I run them all I get the two graphs not good https://dpaste.org/8CeX
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2021-05-16 19:22:13	Ninpo	https://bpa.st/RA4Q hey what's going on here?
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2021-05-16 19:23:03	Ninpo	E is defined in Python 2.7.18 in pdb
2021-05-16 19:23:07	psichi	Hello. I have a program written which plots multiple graphs and shows them in different figures at the end because of plt.show(). However I want to now save all the graphs instead of viewing them? How do I do this such that the program saves them to storage maybe by the title for each graph? Or even numbered would be fine
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2021-05-16 19:29:10	psichi	https://bpa.st/RFZQ
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2021-05-16 19:29:49	psichi	Is there something I can do like the plt.show() at the end which would save all the 12 figures instead of showing them?
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2021-05-16 19:31:51	Samian	Given what I said about creating a python-file-io minibootcamp for myself, how should I go about doing it? Should I create a git repo, and have a bunch of single-file python scripts at the top level?
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2021-05-16 19:32:32	Samian	should I perhaps have a single __main__ entry point, and make each program into a function I call? I comment/uncomment the functions I want to run?
2021-05-16 19:32:42	graingert	Ninpo: 00:14:27 <oznt> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38672560/why-cant-pdb-access-a-variable-containing-an-exception
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2021-05-16 19:36:14	voldial	anyone know of a project that parses part numbers? like page 6: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/428/zseries-1022194.pdf
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2021-05-16 19:59:51	Evidlo	can I use sys.stdout.flush() on Windows?
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2021-05-16 20:00:14	ammar2	yeah
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2021-05-16 20:43:48	Samian	how can I make a project-wide global variable? I want a SAVE_DEBUG_DATA boolean I can use in any py file in my vscode project
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2021-05-16 20:45:16	InPhase	Samian: Perhaps os.environ['SAVE_DEBUG_DATA']
2021-05-16 20:45:36	Samian	that may have to do
2021-05-16 20:45:40	Samian	thanks InPhase !
2021-05-16 20:46:16	Samian	I was hoping for a shorter name
2021-05-16 20:46:27	InPhase	Samian: Perhaps os.environ['SDD']
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2021-05-16 20:46:32	InPhase	;)
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2021-05-16 20:46:58	Samian	I mean, I don't want it complicated. I was hoping for a single word
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2021-05-16 20:47:15	Samian	but okay, I guess that's not the python way :-(
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2021-05-16 20:47:53	InPhase	Probably just import it at the top.  Or, abandon trying to do it wth vscode, and create a config.py and from config import *
2021-05-16 20:48:01	InPhase	s/wth/with/
2021-05-16 20:48:13	Samian	good idea
2021-05-16 20:48:29	jamea	anyone here use weechat?
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2021-05-16 20:49:31	BrenBarn	using `from config import *` won't work if you try to modify the variable
2021-05-16 20:49:46	BrenBarn	as in assign a new value to it
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2021-05-16 20:52:04	deltab	you could import a module, and access an attribute of the module
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2021-05-16 21:07:40	Samian	InPhase,  it seems I can't use os.environ['SAVE_DEBUG_DATA'] but rather must use something like if os.environ['SAVE_DEBUG_DATA'] == 'True':
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2021-05-16 21:13:34	greatgatsby	Samian, you might want os.getenv("SAVE_DEBUG_DATA") which will default to None (falsey) if it doesn't exist.  You can also provide an optional default, os.getenv("SAVE_DEBUG_DATA", False)
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2021-05-16 21:18:49	nedbat	Samian: i wouldn't use an environment variable if this is data just for use in your program.
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2021-05-16 21:42:08	Guest20	https://pasteboard.co/K2eVnrC.png
2021-05-16 21:42:10	Guest20	hi there,
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2021-05-16 21:42:19	Guest20	could someone tell me what needs to be done for the 2nd part
2021-05-16 21:42:39	akk	I've been wrestling with a timezone problem. I have an unaware datetime (created by pyephem) that's actually UTC, but doesn't know it.
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2021-05-16 21:43:23	akk	I want to convert that to an aware UTC datetime, and the only way I've found requires two steps: make it an aware local time then use replace(tzinfo) on it.
2021-05-16 21:43:31	akk	Code showing that: https://bpa.st/65RA
2021-05-16 21:44:00	akk	I'm just wondering if there's a single step way to do the same time, since i'll have to do that repeatedly.
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2021-05-16 21:45:27	jamea	where is the page: is there a page that python can't do?
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2021-05-16 21:46:45	akk	(^do the same thing, not same time, got time on the brain!)
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2021-05-16 21:56:27	refusenick	Anyone else installed a language server via pipx?
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2021-05-16 21:57:21	refusenick	*pylsp::stderr* (in Emacs) reports "ERROR - pylsp.plugins.flake8_lint - Error while running flake8 '/home/refusenick/.pyenv/versions/3.9.5/bin/python: No module named flake8"
2021-05-16 21:57:41	refusenick	even after I ran "pipx inject python-lsp-server flake8" and restarted the workspace
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2021-05-16 22:02:37	grym	refusenick: pipx install 'python-language-server[all]'    is what works for me
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2021-05-16 22:02:43	grym	(you need the extra)
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2021-05-16 22:02:59	grym	and it has to be a string so the brackets don't confuse your shell
2021-05-16 22:03:54	refusenick	grym: hmm I thought I did that...
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2021-05-16 22:04:36	grym	refusenick: when i pipx list and look, it shows flake8 pre-injected
2021-05-16 22:04:38	refusenick	grym: also, python-language-server (Palantir "pyls") isn't maintained anymore, right?
2021-05-16 22:04:44	deltab	akk: isn't  unaware.replace(tzinfo=timezone.utc)  enough?
2021-05-16 22:04:53	refusenick	That's why it got forked into python-lsp-server
2021-05-16 22:04:54	deltab	storing the result, of course
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2021-05-16 22:05:58	grym	refusenick: oh, uh... maybe? there's also the msft one that i haven't used
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2021-05-16 22:06:22	akk	oh, hmm -- I thought I had tried that and got an error, but maybe I made some sort of typo. That does seem to work when I try it now.
2021-05-16 22:06:49	akk	Thanks, deltab -- I probably made some silly error when I tried that before.
2021-05-16 22:07:03	refusenick	grym: I only defaulted to pylsp now because lsp-mode comes with a client for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2021-05-16 22:13:13	Guest20	https://pasteboard.co/K2eVnrC.png
2021-05-16 22:13:21	Guest20	could someone tell me what needs to be done for the 2nd part
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2021-05-16 22:15:29	refusenick	Guest20: "Image not found" in Firefox
2021-05-16 22:15:43	akk	Guest20: It might help to make a text paste as specified in the topic, instead of an image on a site that requires javascript to show images.
2021-05-16 22:15:46	deltab	Guest20: seems pretty clear; what don't you understand about it?
2021-05-16 22:16:20	Guest20	deltab can i use the requests module to query the output and display the result from service a?
2021-05-16 22:16:30	deltab	refusenick: that site does something weird ocnverting fetched data into a blob for display
2021-05-16 22:17:31	deltab	oh, you probably have something wrong in the URL
2021-05-16 22:17:49	deltab	Guest20: yes
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2021-05-16 22:30:02	amosbird	Hello, can I stream out all the stdout/stderr of subprocess.check_output to terminal?
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2021-05-16 22:32:10	Ouranos	!paste
2021-05-16 22:32:11	deltab	amosbird: do you want your script to see the output too?
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2021-05-16 22:33:16	amosbird	deltab: yes
2021-05-16 22:33:39	amosbird	well, it's ok to just print the output
2021-05-16 22:34:07	Ouranos	I can't get this piece of code to work.  It's actually from sololearn.com and I can't get it to run at all!  lol
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2021-05-16 22:35:31	deltab	amosbird: I think you'll need to use Popen and have your own loop reading from the pipe(s)
2021-05-16 22:36:02	deltab	Ouranos: url? what happens?
2021-05-16 22:36:23	Ouranos	I put the code here with the expected and actual results.  https://paste.debian.net/1197827/
2021-05-16 22:36:35	amosbird	deltab: hmm, ok
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2021-05-16 22:37:43	deltab	amosbird: if by stream you mean displaying the output as its generated, not after the process has completed
2021-05-16 22:38:24	deltab	check_output does the latter, as I understand it
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2021-05-16 22:39:57	Ouranos	the expected behavior is that I think I should get an input dialog box.  That doesn't happen though.  https://paste.debian.net
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2021-05-16 22:41:39	deltab	Ouranos: okay, where does it indicate the syntax error?
2021-05-16 22:42:03	Ouranos	It doesn't... I see.  It's just waiting for input and then it times out when it doesn't get it.
2021-05-16 22:43:00	Ouranos	If I modify the code from name = input() to name = input("Enter name:") it prompts me instead of doing nothing and timing out....
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2021-05-16 22:44:52	deltab	Ouranos: what does it say when it times out?
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2021-05-16 22:45:55	Ouranos	It said kernel timeout.  I think it has something to do with the interpreter.
2021-05-16 22:46:16	deltab	oh, you're using jupyter or something?
2021-05-16 22:46:28	Ouranos	https://www.online-python.com/online_python_compiler
2021-05-16 22:46:42	Ouranos	I was using this to test something I'm doing on sololearn
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2021-05-16 22:47:29	Ouranos	Ultimately, I'm trying to write a BMI calculator.  But, I forgot a bunch of stuff and so I'm reviewing all the lessons and making sure I have a firm grasp of the problem as I rethink and rewrite my code.
2021-05-16 22:47:58	deltab	ah okay, that can work slightly differently from other ways to run python; I'm not familiar with it
2021-05-16 22:48:37	deltab	generally input() will wait for you to type something and press enter
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2021-05-16 22:49:08	deltab	it doesn't output a prompt because you didn't tell it to, but otherwise it's still doing the same thing
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2021-05-16 22:53:55	deltab	it doesn't display a dialog box; you are perhaps thinking of javascript in a web browser
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2021-05-16 22:57:10	Ouranos	Yes, I think so..
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2021-05-17 00:31:29	zenix_2k2	question, imagine if i have a string like "aaabccddd", is there any fast way i can just split it into ["aaa", "b", "cc", "ddd"].. and also speed is important in this so the fastest possible method is highly appreciated please
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2021-05-17 00:32:12	leduyquang753	Just iterate through it.
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2021-05-17 00:32:57	zenix_2k2	yea but that would make things slow, resulting in a time exceeds
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2021-05-17 00:33:19	leduyquang753	There is no other way really, you have to iterate through it at least once.
2021-05-17 00:33:22	zenix_2k2	a challenge of mine which i have doing require all testcases to be executed within the range of 10 seconds
2021-05-17 00:33:25	zenix_2k2	if using python3
2021-05-17 00:33:42	zenix_2k2	well ok fine then
2021-05-17 00:33:51	zenix_2k2	just wondering if there is any standard library to get this done faster
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2021-05-17 00:42:50	Wulf	zenix_2k2: regex?
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2021-05-17 00:43:15	zenix_2k2	yea thought of it as well but still trying to craft an expression
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2021-05-17 00:45:12	zenix_2k2	i mean if the string turns out to be "baab" or "aaabccddda" then it will be splitted into ["b", "aa", "b"] and ["aaa", "b", "cc", "ddd", "a"]
2021-05-17 00:46:56	Wulf	re.findall(r"((.)\2*)", "aaabccddd")
2021-05-17 00:48:40	zenix_2k2	well that's... fast
2021-05-17 00:48:42	zenix_2k2	and thk
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2021-05-17 00:50:08	Wulf	zenix_2k2: is it actually faster than writing that in python?
2021-05-17 00:50:26	zenix_2k2	also is \2 pr \number a thing in regex ? i didn't find it in any cheatsheet online
2021-05-17 00:50:42	zenix_2k2	Wulf: writing what ? a real iteration ?
2021-05-17 00:51:04	Wulf	zenix_2k2: https://docs.python.org/3/library/re.html#regular-expression-syntax  \number
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2021-05-17 00:57:40	BrenBarn	backslash + number is a backreference
2021-05-17 00:58:11	BrenBarn	so it means "match what was already matched in parenthesized group number 2"
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2021-05-17 01:00:33	jamea	ACRUALIZAR_URL_MPEDIDO="http://localhost:8080/jQdl/servletExtraInfoPedidoBD?xAccion=MconsultaPedidosEnFecha&xFechaInicial=XXFF1&xFechaFinal=XXFF2"   how to replace: XXFF2 = Actual date -8 days in format: yyyy/mm/dd  ?
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2021-05-17 01:07:21	Wulf	jamea: you should let your http library deal with url encodings
2021-05-17 01:07:46	jamea	ye sunderstand but in this string how to replace....
2021-05-17 01:07:48	Wulf	jamea: (datetime.now() - timedelta(days=8)).strftime("%Y/%m/%d")
2021-05-17 01:07:54	zenix_2k2	BrenBarn: yea but within "aaabccddd", which is indicated as "group number 2" ? usually i would have to create two () in order to have two groups
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2021-05-17 01:08:51	ksynwa	Is there a better way to do this? `if any((num == 10 for num in numbers))`
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2021-05-17 01:09:02	Wulf	jamea: if possible don't use that date format as it's ambigious
2021-05-17 01:09:43	Wulf	jamea: if you've really got that url as a string, split it first. urllib.parse got functions.
2021-05-17 01:09:59	Wulf	ksynwa: yes, with only one ()
2021-05-17 01:10:12	ksynwa	Wulf: thanks
2021-05-17 01:10:18	Wulf	ksynwa: or perhaps: 10 in numbers
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2021-05-17 01:11:52	Samian	Hi Wulf
2021-05-17 01:12:05	Wulf	Samian: Good Morning.
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2021-05-17 01:13:32	jamea	today = date.today()      today="2021-05-16" how to convert to: 2021/05/16
2021-05-17 01:13:42	Wulf	jamea: see above.
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2021-05-17 01:13:59	Samian	From memory, do you know the difference and how to use the commands write(), writelines(), read(), readline(), readlines()? and the differences between open file arguments r, r+, w, w+, a, a+ ?  I'm just curious if the best have this stuff all memorized
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2021-05-17 01:15:25	Samian	Wulf,  I want to memorize python the same way people memorize english. The same way there's a Merriam Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms that explains the slight differences between synonyms, I want to know the differences between similar commands and when it's preferred to use one over the other
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2021-05-17 01:15:29	jamea	Wulf yes understand
2021-05-17 01:15:33	Wulf	Samian: I guess if I thought about those for a while I should get all semantics right.
2021-05-17 01:15:35	jamea	about url encodign
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2021-05-17 01:16:39	Samian	I'm starting a job at facebook first of next month.  If everyone on my team has memorized all the bread-and-butter python commands and I'm looking up commands as I code, that will not be good.
2021-05-17 01:17:11	Wulf	Samian: sorry to hear that. Why facebook?
2021-05-17 01:17:30	Wulf	Samian: I lookup stuff all the time
2021-05-17 01:17:48	Samian	Wulf,  they offered me a job and facebook on my resume will solidify job security for me in the future
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2021-05-17 01:18:58	Samian	Wulf,  I have just a bachelor's degree from a state university.  No ivy league school. No masters. So this will be a big boost.
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2021-05-17 01:20:49	jamea	Wulf: https://bpa.st/EFQA  not replaced why?
2021-05-17 01:22:08	Wulf	Samian: well, good luck then :)
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2021-05-17 01:22:45	Wulf	Samian: about a+: "POSIX is silent on what the initial read position is when using this mode."  Now I wonder what python does here.
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2021-05-17 01:23:42	KirkMcDonald	I'd expect Python to defer to the system's behavior.
2021-05-17 01:23:42	Samian	Wulf,  I think I got the job out of the luck that there's low supply of people with 10+ years experience in CUDA and neural nets.
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2021-05-17 01:24:02	mihael	I'm writing files with suffix: .strftime("%Y%m%d_%H-%M-%S")). How do I get the most recent file?
2021-05-17 01:24:08	mihael	or how do I sort them?
2021-05-17 01:24:25	KirkMcDonald	mihael: That shouls sort lexicographically.
2021-05-17 01:24:28	KirkMcDonald	should*
2021-05-17 01:24:37	KirkMcDonald	mihael: I.e. just sort the strings.
2021-05-17 01:24:47	Samian	Wulf, KirkMcDonald  what do you guys use for global-wide variables, like a variable to turn on/off debug print variable values code ?
2021-05-17 01:24:48	KirkMcDonald	mihael: Or at least, sort by that suffix.
2021-05-17 01:24:56	mihael	I tried sorted(list), but it does not
2021-05-17 01:24:57	Wulf	jamea: str.replace doesn't replace in-place.
2021-05-17 01:25:05	KirkMcDonald	mihael: You'll need to slice out that suffix.
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2021-05-17 01:25:31	Samian	I'm doing: if os.environ['SAVE_DEBUG_DATA'] == 'True':
2021-05-17 01:25:48	KirkMcDonald	mihael: e.g. sorted(foo, key=lambda s: s[:-17])
2021-05-17 01:26:08	Wulf	Samian: environment variables are fine. Or you could use command line args or a config file.
2021-05-17 01:26:10	KirkMcDonald	mihael: Though it would probably be wise to do something more meaningful than a magic number like that.
2021-05-17 01:26:57	KirkMcDonald	Samian: It really depends on context. But a command-line argument is usually my first instinct for configuration of stuff.
2021-05-17 01:27:00	Samian	Wulf,  I just don't know the appropriate place to set the environment variable. I wish I could do it within the vscode config.json file
2021-05-17 01:27:26	jamea	oo done: ACRUALIZAR_URL_MPEDIDO=ACRUALIZAR_URL_MPEDIDO.replace("XXFF2",today.strftime("%d/%m/%Y"))
2021-05-17 01:27:31	Samian	hmm... I do recall many programs using --verbose
2021-05-17 01:27:42	mihael	KirkMcDonald: what can you suggest? In the first place, I want to know when the file was created, hence, the timestamp
2021-05-17 01:27:45	 *	Samian goes with the flow and looks into creating --verbose
2021-05-17 01:27:59	ksynwa	Wulf: How does `if any(num == 10 for num in nums)` work? I did double () because any takes one argument but what you said works as well. Just curious.
2021-05-17 01:28:07	ksynwa	I mean why does it work
2021-05-17 01:28:11	ksynwa	Sorry
2021-05-17 01:28:22	KirkMcDonald	mihael: I mean, that timestamp is always going to be the same length.
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2021-05-17 01:28:49	KirkMcDonald	mihael: Also I got that slice backwards, oops: s[-17:]
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2021-05-17 01:29:23	KirkMcDonald	mihael: And of course you'll need to adjust that if there's a file extension in there or whatever.
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2021-05-17 01:30:20	Wulf	ksynwa: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#grammar-token-call  call takes (comprehension) which doesn't have parens.
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2021-05-17 01:32:14	net|	any gamedev's in here ?
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2021-05-17 01:32:26	wyoung	No
2021-05-17 01:33:07	net|	https://github.com/netpipe/Luna/blob/master/media/frogger.pys this is what my frogger looks like but i need more dev's for project
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2021-05-17 01:34:02	net|	http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35293&start=30
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2021-05-17 01:42:04	Samian	KirkMcDonald,  Wulf, would it be bad to make the --verbose command line argument global scope via setting it to an os.environ key?
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2021-05-17 01:42:52	Samian	I'm thinking to put logic in that goes "if --version is set, set os.environ[VERBOSE_MODE] to True"
2021-05-17 01:43:20	Samian	then os.environ[VERBOSE_MODE] will be accessible with global scope
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2021-05-17 02:22:58	ksynwa	Wulf: Thanks
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2021-05-17 02:37:54	zenix_2k2	Wulf: also in your last regex, ((.)\2*), does the outside group counted as the second group or the inner one ?
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2021-05-17 02:49:44	_habnabit	zenix_2k2, groups are enumerated by which ( appears first
2021-05-17 02:49:52	_habnabit	zenix_2k2, so outer is 1, then inner is 2
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2021-05-17 02:51:36	acresearch	people, i am trying to draw a 3D cube, I want to try and corner angles and side lengths and view this change, how can i accomplish this in python? what setup/library should i read about?
2021-05-17 02:52:06	_habnabit	acresearch, i hear pygame 2 has good GL support
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2021-05-17 02:52:42	acresearch	_habnabit: ok let me read about it
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2021-05-17 02:54:11	zenix_2k2	ok then, the regex is starting to make sense now
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2021-05-17 03:10:43	zenix_2k2	also about regex in python, is there any method of re which i can use to extract the unmatched part of the regex instead of itertating through the matched parts ?
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2021-05-17 03:11:41	zenix_2k2	like r"(\w)\1" of "aaabccdddzzzbaaaba" will result in "aa", "cc", "dd", "zz", "aa", but i want those like "ab", "d", "z", "ba", ...
2021-05-17 03:12:07	zenix_2k2	the previous regex was ok but i come up with a new algorithm and regex, just wondering if there is any method of the re module
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2021-05-17 03:20:42	_habnabit	zenix_2k2, re.split?
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2021-05-17 03:21:59	kuhilas[m]	I want to sign a pdf and I found signpdf which doesn't work with python3 it seems. Now I am trying to install venv on python2 but I don't have pip2. What should I do next
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2021-05-17 03:23:19	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], did you make a virtualenv already? or is that what you're struggling with
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2021-05-17 03:25:11	kuhilas[m]	yeah, struggling to make it
2021-05-17 03:25:44	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], what OS?
2021-05-17 03:25:53	kuhilas[m]	arch linux
2021-05-17 03:26:01	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], ok, and how did you install python 2?
2021-05-17 03:26:17	kuhilas[m]	I don't remember. It's long ago
2021-05-17 03:26:25	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], what's `which python2` ?
2021-05-17 03:26:26	kuhilas[m]	I don't remember installing it expclicitly
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2021-05-17 03:26:44	kuhilas[m]	`/usr/bin/python2`
2021-05-17 03:27:06	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], ok. and what about `python2 -mvirtualenv` ?
2021-05-17 03:27:24	ChrisWarrick	kuhilas[m]: I googled "python sign pdf" and got https://pypi.org/project/endesive/ — maybe you want that instead?
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2021-05-17 03:27:27	kuhilas[m]	`/usr/bin/python2: No module named virtualenv`
2021-05-17 03:27:34	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], and `python2 -mpip` ?
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2021-05-17 03:28:27	kuhilas[m]	at quick glance that endesive is about certificates, I just want a simple attaching of image to pdf and keep pdf editable with text fields
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2021-05-17 03:28:49	kuhilas[m]	`/usr/bin/python2: No module named pip`
2021-05-17 03:29:29	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], and `python2 -mensurepip` ?
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2021-05-17 03:30:56	ChrisWarrick	kuhilas[m]: there are tons of pdf editing libaries that work with modern python
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2021-05-17 03:31:08	kuhilas[m]	http://sprunge.us/gLxZJu
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2021-05-17 03:31:26	kuhilas[m]	https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/85873/how-can-i-add-a-signature-png-to-a-pdf-in-linux
2021-05-17 03:31:31	ChrisWarrick	kuhilas[m]: sudo pacman -S python2-pip
2021-05-17 03:31:36	kuhilas[m]	I have gone through that thread, and I still want to try python2 signpdf
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2021-05-17 03:33:06	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], aha. `python2 -mensurepip --user && ~/.local/bin/pip install --user virtualenv`
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2021-05-17 03:34:16	kuhilas[m]	http://sprunge.us/sYLH6L
2021-05-17 03:34:52	kuhilas[m]	I installed python2-pip and then I ran that one command from elsewhere, and then I tried running `python2 -mensurepip --user && ~/.local/bin/pip install --user virtualenv` but now that came
2021-05-17 03:35:10	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], is there a ~/.local/bin/virtualenv ?
2021-05-17 03:36:05	kuhilas[m]	yup
2021-05-17 03:36:17	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], well, there you go
2021-05-17 03:36:29	ChrisWarrick	(perhaps it would be faster to use the zipapp: https://virtualenv.pypa.io/en/latest/installation.html#via-zipapp )
2021-05-17 03:36:29	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], you might want ~/.local/bin on your $PATH, as the output says
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2021-05-17 03:37:07	kuhilas[m]	 ~/.local/bin/virtualenv -p /usr/bin/python2 venv or run this? Am I not specifying the venv dir when I create one with python2
2021-05-17 03:37:22	_habnabit	kuhilas[m], virtualenv takes a directory name yes
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2021-05-17 03:38:37	kuhilas[m]	seems to have worked thanks
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2021-05-17 03:42:37	kuhilas[m]	d'oh. I thought this signer tool wouldn't screw up the text fields. Seems like after attaching an image to it, I can't edit the text fields anymore
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2021-05-17 03:44:05	kuhilas[m]	Guess I have to try some other method
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2021-05-17 03:47:55	kuhilas[m]	I don't get it. This signpdf is supposed to preserve the texfield according to its readme. Wel lI can click and start editing the text field, but when I click elsewhere it's not saved with evince. Oh well, I guess this is off-topic now
2021-05-17 03:48:26	zenix_2k2	_habnabit: not really, for example : re.split(r"(\w)\1", "aaabccddd"), what i expected was ["a", "b", "d"] because that regex will specify a couple of letters such as ["aa", "cc", "dd"] ( AAabCCDDd )
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2021-05-17 03:48:36	zenix_2k2	the capitalized part is the selected part of that regex
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2021-05-17 03:57:29	ac_slater	hey guys sorry to bother. I have a weird dir layout of a large project. `{repo}/modules/{m}/python/{company_name}/{package}`. Should I make a large meta package or each package unique?
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2021-05-17 03:59:18	ac_slater	I guess my goal is a single setup.py that can pull in all of the `python/{company_name}/{package}` heirarchies
2021-05-17 03:59:19	ac_slater	idk
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2021-05-17 04:03:27	duszek	how can I make ammo/reload in my game? exactly the same way it works in counter-strike, fortnite or overwatch
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2021-05-17 04:03:35	ac_slater	wtf
2021-05-17 04:03:37	duszek	you know how if you ever played CS
2021-05-17 04:03:47	ac_slater	what the hell man
2021-05-17 04:03:55	ac_slater	what is ammo? what is "your game"
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2021-05-17 04:04:03	ac_slater	how are we supposed to know that
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2021-05-17 04:04:16	duszek	ac_slater: it's a shooter game
2021-05-17 04:04:29	barometz	duszek: your question is impossibly high-perspective to answer
2021-05-17 04:04:32	duszek	ac_slater: if you ever played Counter-Strike, you have a magazine
2021-05-17 04:04:37	barometz	at least within the scope of this channel
2021-05-17 04:04:39	duszek	and you can reload ammo by pressing R
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2021-05-17 04:04:49	ac_slater	please go to #pygame or whatever
2021-05-17 04:05:03	barometz	the answer to that is a whole architecture
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2021-05-17 04:12:02	tsujp	I have a list `theList = []` which contains objects `Foo` and `Foo` has a property `client` which is another object `Bar` and finally `Bar` has a field `idd`, how can I list all `idd` in this list in a comprehension way?
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2021-05-17 04:12:36	leduyquang753	e.client.idd for e in theList
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2021-05-17 04:13:45	tsujp	Oh true, i was trying to be too clever lol
2021-05-17 04:13:55	tsujp	I had a double comprehension non-working piece of spaghetti
2021-05-17 04:14:00	tsujp	Thank you leduyquang753
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2021-05-17 04:32:19	podeni	Hi everyone. In Python 3 how would you go about turning a list of strings into a valid standard CSV line (with everything that needs escaping escaped)? All the examples Google came up with want me to write a file on disk, which is not what I want to do.
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2021-05-17 04:35:15	KirkMcDonald	podeni: The csv module wants to work on a file object, but it doesn't have to be an *actual* file.
2021-05-17 04:35:25	deniska	podeni: you can use csv module passing io.StringIO to it
2021-05-17 04:35:36	KirkMcDonald	Yeah, that.
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2021-05-17 04:37:13	deniska	"standard CSV" isn't really a thing though :P
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2021-05-17 04:44:30	podeni	Thanks, I managed to do it with io.StringIO
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2021-05-17 05:01:05	stevieh	hmm... I wanted to install pikepdf and it wante to build it. After upgrading pip it gets the wheel. Why is that?
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2021-05-17 05:02:24	swj	AttributeError: 'WebDriver' object has no attribute 'execute_cdp_cmd' =-O
2021-05-17 05:02:35	swj	help~
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2021-05-17 05:05:44	swj	I don't know why there is such a mistake, it can't be solved
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2021-05-17 05:06:45	swj	Does anyone know
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2021-05-17 05:09:03	swj	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/66817547/attributeerror-webdriver-object-has-no-attribute-execute-cdp-cmd   |It's the same problem
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2021-05-17 05:15:34	ChrisWarrick	stevieh: pikepdf has wheels on pypi for all platforms, and so pip will default to using them
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2021-05-17 05:16:41	ChrisWarrick	swj: are you sure that this method exists in the selenium version you’re using?
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2021-05-17 05:18:56	IHasFinger	Hi guys, basic maths, if you want to subtract a number, the largest number takes away from the smallest number. In python if you have something like X - Y = XYZ bear in mind you do not know which one is the largest numbers. If you do something like print( decimal.Decimal(5.91) - decimal.Decimal(100.98) ) you will get -95.07000000000000383693077310 2 things(1) I do not want the negative(-) in front and (2) the way I am thinking is that to remove the
2021-05-17 05:18:56	IHasFinger	negative you need to know if x or y is the largest number, any easy way to do it without if and else? or is they another way?
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2021-05-17 05:19:04	swj	ChrisWarrick: I'm not sure, but I want to use it:-D
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2021-05-17 05:19:31	ChrisWarrick	swj: well, you’ll need to read the docs. Why do you want to use that method?
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2021-05-17 05:19:44	amogorkon	IHasFinger, do you mean abs(difference)
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2021-05-17 05:19:54	ChrisWarrick	IHasFinger: also, decimal.Decimal(float) will give you nonsense results
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2021-05-17 05:20:16	swj	Bypass the detection property of webdriver
2021-05-17 05:20:27	amogorkon	you could also do sqrt((a - b)**2)
2021-05-17 05:20:55	ChrisWarrick	swj: read the docs and try to find a different solution for that
2021-05-17 05:21:11	amogorkon	or max(a,b) - min(a,b)
2021-05-17 05:21:13	amogorkon	or..
2021-05-17 05:21:14	swj	ok
2021-05-17 05:21:27	IHasFinger	amogorkon, not heard of  abs(difference)
2021-05-17 05:21:39	amogorkon	abs(a-b) is fairly useful
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2021-05-17 05:21:50	amogorkon	i use it quite often
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2021-05-17 05:21:52	_habnabit	IHasFinger, don't call Decimal on a float
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2021-05-17 05:24:12	stevieh	ChrisWarrick: I used a clean buster. python3 -m pip install --upgrade pikepdf  wants to build it, after pip3 install --upgrade pip everything works fine.
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2021-05-17 05:24:32	IHasFinger	_habnabit, i like decimal because if its a whole number like 12345 it will keep the 12345 whereas with float it will add .00 its important i keep the value how it is without adding any extra bits :)
2021-05-17 05:24:34	stevieh	this confuses my understanding of pip as a package manager...
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2021-05-17 05:24:55	_habnabit	IHasFinger, sure. i didn't say "don't use Decimal". call Decimal only on strings or ints, but never floats
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2021-05-17 05:25:02	ChrisWarrick	stevieh: Debian buster is ancient and it ships with an ancient pip that likely does not recognize manylinux2010 wheels.
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2021-05-17 05:25:15	_habnabit	IHasFinger, calling it on a float will only give you bad results
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2021-05-17 05:25:23	ChrisWarrick	stevieh: Always use a venv, and always do `venv/bin/pip install -U pip setuptools wheel` right after you create it
2021-05-17 05:25:24	IHasFinger	_habnabit, got an example?
2021-05-17 05:25:34	_habnabit	IHasFinger, Decimal(1), Decimal('1.1')
2021-05-17 05:26:12	amogorkon	_habnabit, i don't use really use Decimal, can you give me an example of how it messes up if used with floats?
2021-05-17 05:26:23	amogorkon	-use
2021-05-17 05:26:26	_habnabit	amogorkon, try seeing the bad result from Decimal(1.1)
2021-05-17 05:26:27	ChrisWarrick	amogorkon: print(Decimal(0.1) + Decimal(0.2))
2021-05-17 05:26:32	ChrisWarrick	amogorkon: print(Decimal('0.1') + Decimal('0.2'))
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2021-05-17 05:26:36	amogorkon	hmm
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2021-05-17 05:27:35	IHasFinger	ChrisWarrick, and _habnabit same with float print(float(0.1) + float(0.2))
2021-05-17 05:27:42	IHasFinger	0.3000000000000000166533453694
2021-05-17 05:27:51	IHasFinger	with decimal it is 95.07000000000000383693077310
2021-05-17 05:28:01	amogorkon	_habnabit, wow, that's strange
2021-05-17 05:28:02	IHasFinger	ignore that last message
2021-05-17 05:28:17	IHasFinger	decimal it is like this 0.3000000000000000166533453694
2021-05-17 05:28:25	_habnabit	amogorkon, what's strange about it? Decimal is converting the imprecise float to a precise Decimal that captures its exact value
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2021-05-17 05:29:05	amogorkon	well, it's strange to see the uglyness of float conversion up close.. you know what they say about sausages and politics
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2021-05-17 05:29:55	amogorkon	why isn't there a warning of some kind or outright refusal on trying to convert float to decimal?
2021-05-17 05:30:13	KirkMcDonald	amogorkon: An excellent question. Ideally, it should be a separate classmethod.
2021-05-17 05:30:14	_habnabit	amogorkon, i do wish that Decimal raised a TypeError if passed a float
2021-05-17 05:30:18	KirkMcDonald	But so it goes.
2021-05-17 05:30:29	KirkMcDonald	https://qntm.org/notpointthree
2021-05-17 05:30:29	amogorkon	trying to add decimal and float at least results in an exception
2021-05-17 05:31:20	KirkMcDonald	IHasFinger: But please tell me you see the difference between Decimal(0.1) and Decimal('0.1')
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2021-05-17 05:33:11	IHasFinger	print(Decimal("0.1")) = 0.1
2021-05-17 05:33:20	IHasFinger	print(Decimal(0.1)) = 0.1000000000000000055511151231257827021181583404541015625
2021-05-17 05:33:29	amogorkon	what if float to decimal conversion would use the repr of the float instead?
2021-05-17 05:33:35	IHasFinger	basicaly use f"{}" which is what I am doing :)
2021-05-17 05:33:53	IHasFinger	convert it to string and then do the maths
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2021-05-17 05:34:08	KirkMcDonald	amogorkon: This sound terrifying.
2021-05-17 05:34:11	KirkMcDonald	sounds*
2021-05-17 05:34:24	amogorkon	it does, doesn't it.. but at least it might be correct?
2021-05-17 05:34:47	KirkMcDonald	"Correct," as a word, is doing a lot of work there.
2021-05-17 05:35:23	amogorkon	correct as in "results in some less unexpected result" :p
2021-05-17 05:35:41	KirkMcDonald	What if I expect floats to behave as I understand floats to behave?
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2021-05-17 05:35:59	amogorkon	you might be alien
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2021-05-17 05:36:17	KirkMcDonald	Really I've just been using floats for way too long.
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2021-05-17 05:37:39	 *	deniska may have used round(x, 3) this week
2021-05-17 05:39:09	KirkMcDonald	The horror.
2021-05-17 05:39:10	amogorkon	is there any usecase outside of finances for decimal?
2021-05-17 05:39:29	KirkMcDonald	Calculator.
2021-05-17 05:39:29	amogorkon	just wondering
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2021-05-17 05:40:22	deniska	there're ~4 common formats of writing betting odds, and converting between them involves operations like 1/x :(
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2021-05-17 05:40:43	KirkMcDonald	That sounds more like fractions.
2021-05-17 05:40:53	_habnabit	deniska, there's a whole fractions module
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2021-05-17 05:42:58	amogorkon	i wonder how decimal vs. fraction compare performance-wise
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2021-05-17 05:43:20	amogorkon	both should be arbitrary-precision, no?
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2021-05-17 05:44:38	deniska	the calculation involves 1/x, but the result is represented as a decimal number with a certain amount of decimal places, so I used decimal module for that
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2021-05-17 05:46:46	amogorkon	and doesn't decimal also build on top of ints..
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2021-05-17 05:47:11	nedbat	amogorkon: there's a thread from last week in Python-Ideas about making int division produce fractions instead of floats
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2021-05-17 05:47:29	amogorkon	oh.
2021-05-17 05:47:46	amogorkon	i'm not sure if i'm pro or contra on that
2021-05-17 05:48:01	deniska	https://bpa.st/OUVQ maybe there's a better way of doing that, but the results were consistent with the data provided by another service :)
2021-05-17 05:48:23	amogorkon	it sounds like a horrible idea for backwards compatibility but a nice idea in general
2021-05-17 05:49:46	deniska	What we actually need instead is an ability to monkey patch builtin types :P
2021-05-17 05:49:59	amogorkon	heh
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2021-05-17 05:50:14	amogorkon	i was more thinking of a new operator, but that works too :p
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2021-05-17 05:51:34	deniska	or, what would be arguably more sane, an ability to redefine literal evaluation on a per-module basis :)
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2021-05-17 05:53:20	amogorkon	actually, i'm tending towards the pro side now, thinking that real, most performance-relevant floating point stuff is done in numpy or some other specialized lib
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2021-05-17 05:56:44	amogorkon	it somewhat reminds me of the bytes vs. strings concept
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2021-05-17 05:58:40	amogorkon	one would probably need to draw some systems boundaries to keep things reasonably clear
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2021-05-17 06:12:16	kosh	I would not want int/int to give a fraction instead of a float
2021-05-17 06:12:31	kosh	I already had to fix things from 2.x to 3.x and this would be another breaking change
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2021-05-17 06:18:32	nedbat	kosh: i think the idea is a non-starter because of compatibility concerns, and the thread on Python-Ideas is about whether it would be a good idea even without those concerns.
2021-05-17 06:19:27	kosh	ah ok
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2021-05-17 06:21:55	bjs	imagine you could go back in time and make it so int/int was a fraction
2021-05-17 06:22:04	bjs	or that 1.23 was a Decimal object
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2021-05-17 06:22:11	gulzar	Hi. I have a pandas dataframe with same rows and columns  (15,4 == 4,15) and their values as distances between them (calculated using cdist from scipy)  .  Now I need to create K-mers (let's say 5 mer) based on distances. So let's say dist_cutoff is 5.0   starting from any one point find 2nd point within 5.0 . From this 2nd find 3rd within 5.0 and so on . There maybe multiple points within cutoff, then split  and create N K-mers.   Once we have 5-mers for
2021-05-17 06:22:13	gulzar	1st. Take 2nd and find its's 5 mers, then with 3rd and so on till last.   Any suggetsions?
2021-05-17 06:22:38	kosh	bjs, I wonder if that would have made python so slow that it wouldn't get adopted
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2021-05-17 06:23:54	graingert	nedbat: they should make fractions support pathlib.Path too
2021-05-17 06:24:35	bjs	kosh: I don't think anyone expects such a proposal to be accepted into modern Python
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2021-05-17 06:28:09	r_hector	hi - I'm trying to understand (some of) what's going on here: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/vars/host_group_vars.py
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2021-05-17 06:29:31	r_hector	with a view to writing a plugin of my own. In the function get_vars, I see it calls super(VarsModule, self).get_vars() - but my understanding is that that should return a dictionary, and I don't see it getting stored anywhere
2021-05-17 06:29:58	r_hector	(I'm new to python, especially OO python, as is probably obvious :-)
2021-05-17 06:30:04	graingert	https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/vars/host_group_vars.py#L19 what does this do?
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2021-05-17 06:31:01	r_hector	__metaclass__ = type? I have no idea :-)
2021-05-17 06:31:26	nichlas	to get python 2 do python 3 behavior instead
2021-05-17 06:31:29	 *	r_hector searches
2021-05-17 06:31:32	nichlas	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18554525/what-is-the-purpose-of-metaclass-type
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2021-05-17 06:32:15	nichlas	or, "new-style classes" instead of "old-style classes"
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2021-05-17 06:33:16	r_hector	so I guess it gets ignored when run with python 3?
2021-05-17 06:33:30	graingert	Wtf
2021-05-17 06:33:42	graingert	Today I learned
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2021-05-17 06:34:30	r_hector	but I also assume it has nothing to do with my question :-)
2021-05-17 06:34:36	Yhg1s	r_hector: it doesn't.
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2021-05-17 06:34:55	bjs	graingert: https://docs.python.org/2/reference/datamodel.html#customizing-class-creation  "Otherwise, if a global variable named __metaclass__ exists, it is used."
2021-05-17 06:34:56	Yhg1s	r_hector: the subclass apparently doesn't care what the baseclass get_vars returns, and it's only calling it for side-effects. Or, calling it by mistake.
2021-05-17 06:35:11	r_hector	hmm, ok
2021-05-17 06:35:47	r_hector	so if my class does need it, I can assign the return value to something and carry on.
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2021-05-17 06:36:38	Yhg1s	r_hector: yes.
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2021-05-17 06:37:17	Yhg1s	r_hector: FWIW, I wouldn't write code like this. calling the method that would have been called had this class not imlpemented the method and then *ignoring the result* is a peculiar thing to do.
2021-05-17 06:37:21	rendar	`-> (float, float)` is the annotation of a function which returns a couple of floats, but what about that function can also return None? should i note that into annotations or not? If so, how?
2021-05-17 06:37:31	Yhg1s	At the very least it deserves a lengthy comment about why it should be ignored.
2021-05-17 06:37:46	Yhg1s	rendar: that's what typing.Optional is for.
2021-05-17 06:38:46	rendar	Yhg1s: i have to import a library for that? :(
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2021-05-17 06:39:02	Yhg1s	rendar: if you're doing type annotations, you will frequently need the typing module.
2021-05-17 06:39:10	Yhg1s	rendar: why are you afraid of importing modules?
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2021-05-17 06:39:37	bjs	rendar: also shouldn't that be tuple[float, float]  not (float, float)
2021-05-17 06:39:50	vladoski	what's the point of having else in a try except block?
2021-05-17 06:39:59	bjs	vladoski: to do things in the event there was no exception
2021-05-17 06:40:02	Yhg1s	vladoski: it's what gets executed if no exception gets raised.
2021-05-17 06:40:03	rendar	bjs: tuple[float, float]? that's the correct one?
2021-05-17 06:40:05	r_hector	huh. So it apparently doesn't return a dict after all; it returns a 'NoneType'
2021-05-17 06:40:08	bjs	_Ev: yes
2021-05-17 06:40:11	bjs	oops
2021-05-17 06:40:12	bjs	rendar: yes
2021-05-17 06:40:14	Yhg1s	r_hector: taht would be None.
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2021-05-17 06:40:21	rendar	bjs: why not tuple(float, float) ?
2021-05-17 06:40:28	bjs	rendar: because.. that's just not what it is
2021-05-17 06:40:43	vladoski	Yhg1s, okay even if that exception is not catched by some excepts?
2021-05-17 06:40:46	bjs	rendar: a[b] is not the same as a(b) is not the same as a.b
2021-05-17 06:40:47	Yhg1s	rendar: the typing language is a subset of Python. tuple(float, float) has a different meaning in Python.
2021-05-17 06:40:58	rendar	i see, ok
2021-05-17 06:40:59	Yhg1s	vladoski: no, if *no* exception is raised.
2021-05-17 06:41:26	vladoski	okok
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2021-05-17 06:43:49	bjs	vladoski: see https://bpa.st/R2NQ
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2021-05-17 06:45:29	bjs	vladoski: note that the first call executed the `else` block,  but didn't execute after the try.  Also note the second call did *not* execute the `else` block, because an exception was raised (even if was ZeroDivsionError, not ValueError)
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2021-05-17 06:47:42	rendar	`-> tuple[float, float]:` gives: TypeError: 'type' object is not subscriptable
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2021-05-17 06:48:09	bjs	rendar: typing.Tuple then
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2021-05-17 06:48:31	kek_	hi, are python-debugsymbols part of the normal python source found at https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.9.5/ ?
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2021-05-17 06:49:03	Thanatos	Hello everyone
2021-05-17 06:50:26	Thanatos	I want to dynamically get attributes on a class based on a condition. i.e x.v will actually return the value of x.a if x.v doesn't exist else it will return its normal expected value
2021-05-17 06:51:01	Yhg1s	kek_: I'm not sure what you're asking. 'python-debugsymbols' sounds like a package name in some package system. The source doesn't contain "symbols" at all, because it's the *source*. Debug symbols are an artifact of compiled libraries or binaries.
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2021-05-17 06:51:52	Yhg1s	Thanatos: sounds like you may want to use a property for x.a? Or perhaps you're looking for the three-argument form of getattr(): getattr(x, 'v', x.a)
2021-05-17 06:52:00	Yhg1s	eh, a property for x.v rather.
2021-05-17 06:52:21	podeni	If I wanted to pipe XML content to a python script, what library could I use to parse it that wouldn't try to load the whole string? (I'd want to stream the data)
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2021-05-17 06:52:53	Yhg1s	podeni: lxml.etree and xml.etree.ElementTree have ways of doing that. They're also pretty good ways of parsing XML (especially lxml.etree)
2021-05-17 06:53:15	Thanatos	well, yes, the problem is that I may want x.y or x.z tomorrow and I want to cover those cases without littering my class definition with property attributes
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2021-05-17 06:53:35	Yhg1s	Thanatos: it's difficult to suggest a good solution without more detail
2021-05-17 06:53:55	Thanatos	Yhg1s, can I use the three atttribute method in the class defifnition
2021-05-17 06:54:17	podeni	Thanks Y4kuzi, I'm trying xml.etree now, but the following command seems to wait for data to load instead of processing it as it comes: for row in tree.iterfind('./database/table_data/row'):
2021-05-17 06:54:29	podeni	(context: I'm trying to parse the output of mysqldump --xml)
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2021-05-17 06:55:30	Yhg1s	podeni: yes, to stream-parse the XML you have to use xml.etree.ElementTree.iterparse (or lxml.etree.iterparse, which will be faster)
2021-05-17 06:55:41	kek_	Yhg1s, yeah I want to debug something using gdb but I don't have labels for the symbols and apparently people use an extra package to get them but turns out, it's probably just python compiled with py_debug flag. thanks though
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2021-05-17 06:56:35	Yhg1s	podeni: to avoid storing everything in memory as you parse it, you have to decide what to throw away; see https://lxml.de/parsing.html#modifying-the-tree for example.
2021-05-17 06:56:52	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I'm wrote a script to read and catalogue data from a Postgres database, my times in the script I access columns using the Table.column syntax. This works as expected. Another database I'm working with has the same schema BUT some of the table names as well as columns are capitalized and SQLalchemy says my lowercase class attributes don't exits anymore.
2021-05-17 06:57:27	Yhg1s	kek_: if you need debug symbols for a specific binary package, they need to be *that binary package's debug symbols*. You can't create them after the fact.
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2021-05-17 06:57:50	Thanatos	so normally, User.email works but now I need to call User.EMAIL.
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2021-05-17 06:58:25	kek_	Yhg1s, As I said, I need the symbols for the c api and from what I saw one needs to compile python with Py_debug to see them e.g. in gdb.
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2021-05-17 06:58:53	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I want a call to User.email to check for User.email, if attribute error, check User.EMAIL.
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2021-05-17 07:01:41	Yhg1s	Thanatos: ok; as far as I know SQLAlchemy should handle this automatically, if your column names are all lowercase (in your schema).
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2021-05-17 07:03:39	Yhg1s	Thanatos: but if it were actually different (or if SQLAlchemy can't handle it in that specific case for other reasons, like there being words that *have* to be quoted regardless of case sensitivity), I would provide a different schema or in some way pass the different column names to SQLAlchemy, rather than try to change what attribute gets fetched.
2021-05-17 07:03:48	Yhg1s	kek_: that's not the cdase, no.
2021-05-17 07:04:24	Yhg1s	kek_: you can get debug symbols just fine in a regular Python build. It's just that they are often stripped after the build process, in the packaging process (for whatever packaging system you're using)
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2021-05-17 07:04:46	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I'm reflecting or automapping the database
2021-05-17 07:04:52	IHasFinger	is they a method in python which can turn something like 551269514 to 551,269,514  . 10000 to 10,000  etc?
2021-05-17 07:05:14	FunkyBob	IHasFinger: am sure string formatting has something
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2021-05-17 07:05:26	Thanatos	Is thera setting I might mistakenly turned on to make column and table lookups case sensitive
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2021-05-17 07:06:01	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: f'{551269514:,}'
2021-05-17 07:06:15	Yhg1s	Thanatos: you could be setting quote=True somewhere, I guess.
2021-05-17 07:06:37	Yhg1s	Thanatos: but also providing names with uppercase characters in them will make SQLAlchemy quote by default (which means case sensitivity in SQL)
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2021-05-17 07:08:01	IHasFinger	FunkyBob, and Yhg1s thank you
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2021-05-17 07:08:36	Thanatos	The current database MS SQL Server, has column and tables names in uppercase. When I used Table.column, it claims the column doesn't exist bit works with Table.COLUMN
2021-05-17 07:09:35	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I'vre grepped the project folder, quote = True isn't used.
2021-05-17 07:10:12	faceface	morning
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2021-05-17 07:10:45	faceface	I've been trying to write pythonic and clear code, but I always end up stuck going round design choices
2021-05-17 07:11:35	podeni	Thanks Y4kuzi the following worked: for event, elem in lxml.etree.iterparse(sys.stdin.buffer, events=("start", "end")):
2021-05-17 07:11:52	faceface	I have 131 lines of code that are more or less my entire application here: https://gist.github.com/CholoTook/2eaed8009e48e65bc1b1b65111320a59 ... Does anything jump out as rong^{TM} from a pythonistas perspective?
2021-05-17 07:12:36	faceface	I'd be hugely grateful for tips on how to be more pythonic... Ah... I should pep8 that
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2021-05-17 07:14:43	nedbat	faceface: the only thing i see is that you don't need line 40
2021-05-17 07:15:01	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I've resulted to using a model mixin and overloading __getattribute__ and __getattr__. but it's not working
2021-05-17 07:15:21	bjs	faceface: not reading it in too much detail, i notice a few things: the `return None` at the end of functions is redundant and doesn't seem to add anything; in get_sample_genotypes you don't seem to use the sample_id, perhaps that function can be simplified?; in gpl_to_marker_dict why not just call snp_string_to_dict directly in the comprehension?;  for snp_string_to_dict why not just make it a dict literal?
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2021-05-17 07:15:36	bjs	faceface: like `return {"AA": ..., "BB": ..., ...}`
2021-05-17 07:15:57	kek_	Yhg1s, so are you saying I'm not missing the symbols names because of python being compiled without the debug flag?
2021-05-17 07:16:07	kek_	Yhg1s, no idea what a "regular build" is.
2021-05-17 07:16:35	bjs	faceface: and line35 / the update_sample_genotype function,  it's nicer if it *either* mutates the underlying dict, *or* returns a new dict.  I'd remove the `return` and on line35 not re-assign
2021-05-17 07:16:50	Yhg1s	Thanatos: yeah, I wouldn't expect that to work. How about overriding the column names instead? Or, reflecting once and recording the result, so the API doesn't change depending on case? Or, failing that, wrapping the SQLAlchemy classes in an API-normalizing class.
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2021-05-17 07:17:12	Yhg1s	kek_: yes, the reason you're missing debug symbols isn't that Python was being compiled without Py_DEBUG. It's because your particular build was stripped of debug symbols.
2021-05-17 07:17:22	Yhg1s	kek_: a regular build is a build without Py_DEBIG.
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2021-05-17 07:18:27	faceface	OK pep8'ed
2021-05-17 07:18:29	kek_	Yhg1s, so how do I get the symbol names/function names in gdb then?
2021-05-17 07:19:10	Yhg1s	kek_: you need the debug symbols for the Python binary you're using. You need to ask whatever gave you the Python binary to also give you the debug symbols. Or, you need a new build of Python that includes the debug symbols.
2021-05-17 07:19:38	Thanatos	Yhg1s, Although I'm calling quite a number of columns, it's doable but fells quite menial and not dynamic
2021-05-17 07:19:49	Thanatos	*feels
2021-05-17 07:20:24	Thanatos	And it means, every column I want to call has to have its own overloaded property attribute
2021-05-17 07:20:49	faceface	nedbat: thanks
2021-05-17 07:21:01	faceface	bjs: thanks, I'll have to think about those in detail :-)
2021-05-17 07:21:15	Yhg1s	Thanatos: I don't know what you mean by 'it' there. The last objection in particular doesn't seem to apply to any of my suggestions.
2021-05-17 07:21:35	kek_	Yhg1s, how do I hceck if my build includes the debug symbols?
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2021-05-17 07:22:46	Yhg1s	kek_: well, if gdb can't find them, they're not included. They can be part of the binary, or they can live in a separate set of files somewhere gdb knows to find them (which isn't a static place), so it's hard to give a simple answer.
2021-05-17 07:22:59	Thanatos	Yhg1s, You said to override column names, I was replying to that.
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2021-05-17 07:23:02	Yhg1s	kek_: they are sometimes available as a separate package in your packaging system, though.
2021-05-17 07:23:17	faceface	OK, I'll go over those suggestions and see if I can understand them Seem to make sense at first glance, but not 100% sure I understand dict comprehension point... may be clearer that way
2021-05-17 07:23:38	kek_	Yhg1s, isn't there a wiki page, man page or some other kind of documentation about this?
2021-05-17 07:23:50	faceface	I have three 'test_*.py' files... If I do create classes for Sample and SampleGenotype, do I put my tests for those methods within the class?
2021-05-17 07:23:51	Yhg1s	Thanatos: by 'overloading column names' I meant while reflecting the database. You can override things like table and column names when you do that.
2021-05-17 07:23:56	Yhg1s	Thanatos: I did not mean overloading properties.
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2021-05-17 07:24:18	Thanatos	Yhg1s, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware
2021-05-17 07:24:29	Yhg1s	kek_: maybe! It depends on what package you're actually talking about. Is this an OS package, or pyenv, or something else? How did you get the python you're trying to get the symbols of?
2021-05-17 07:24:29	bjs	faceface: usually people put tests separately
2021-05-17 07:24:38	avu	kek_: it depends on how/where you got your Python, if you used a Linux package manager for example, there is likely to be a package with -dbg or -debug at the end
2021-05-17 07:24:48	bjs	faceface: like in a separate tests/ directory, which has files which import the classes and test them.  But there's no hard rule.
2021-05-17 07:25:44	faceface	bjs: cool, thanks again
2021-05-17 07:26:01	faceface	I tried to be of the mindset that, 'if I can't test this easily, I'm doin it rong'
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2021-05-17 07:29:01	bjs	faceface: it's not always wrong,  I mean testing is hard and some things are just harder to test than others.  But you should definitely try make it easier to test
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2021-05-17 07:29:39	bjs	I've noticed that people put some fixed effort into testing, and if testing is harder than that then people just stop writing tests. So making testing easy is good.
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2021-05-17 07:31:35	kek_	Yhg1s, no idea what pyenv is and what you mean by package. If you are refering to python itself then I'm using the python package from the arch repo. I have some code that gives me problems which I want to debug using gdb but I miss the symbol names. avu yeah there's an AUR package that might give me that but that's out of date so useless. I'm trying to figure out how I'd manually download those debug symbols and include it manually,
2021-05-17 07:31:35	kek_	buuild it form source or whatever but I somehow can't find the documentation for it.
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2021-05-17 07:31:58	faceface	bjs: "in gpl_to_marker_dict why not just call snp_string_to_dict directly in the comprehension"... I guess my ability to easily read a dict comprehension is shakey, so I thought it was clearer to do the function call in a separate loop
2021-05-17 07:32:41	bjs	faceface: ah, I was thinking something like `return {marker_table.at[i, 'ID']: snp_string_to_dict(marker_table.at[i, 'SNP']) for ...}`
2021-05-17 07:32:49	avu	kek_: if the debug symbols are not included with the package directly, there's probably some package in the same repo with the symbols. I don't know what convention Arch uses to name those, most distributions use either a suffix of either -dbg or -debug I think
2021-05-17 07:34:02	Yhg1s	kek_: sounds like https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Debug_-_Getting_Traces is the wiki page you're asking for then. This isn't about Python as such, it's about how the Arch package built Python. You can't download the symbols from anywhere if Arch doesn't provide the specific debug symbols for the package.
2021-05-17 07:34:03	faceface	I see... super 'lite' code...
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2021-05-17 07:34:09	avu	kek_: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Debug_-_Getting_Traces seems to imply they don't ship such packages and you have to build them on your own
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2021-05-17 07:34:52	bjs	faceface: these style things are always personal preference of course.
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2021-05-17 07:34:56	faceface	bjs: same question for your next comment, "for snp_string_to_dict why not just make it a dict literal" ... Again, I think I used several lines to make it clearer
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2021-05-17 07:35:06	bjs	faceface: the dict literal can be on several lines too
2021-05-17 07:35:10	faceface	bjs: OK, so long as it isn't 'terrible python'
2021-05-17 07:35:11	bjs	with comments between the lines just like here
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2021-05-17 07:35:28	kek_	avu, Yhg1s thanks, sometimes I get lost since I'm still not too comfortable in this kind of space. Thanks for your help. :)
2021-05-17 07:35:29	faceface	OK... but there is no inherent advantage?
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2021-05-17 07:35:34	faceface	other than style?
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2021-05-17 07:35:57	faceface	I guess it's pretty neat
2021-05-17 07:36:02	faceface	and perhaps easier to read
2021-05-17 07:36:06	bjs	faceface: no but PEP8 and everything related is entirely style
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2021-05-17 07:36:29	faceface	cool
2021-05-17 07:36:31	bjs	keeping a consistent style is also good because it makes spotting things that are wrong easier
2021-05-17 07:37:15	bjs	faceface: like your update_sample_genotype which both mutates and returns. This is unusual in Python. It's not "wrong", it's just Python programmers usually don't do that.
2021-05-17 07:37:19	faceface	I'm wondering about my '''storage class''' ... if I make classes for Sample and SampleGenotype, would I give those their own 'store' methods? I get very shakey when it comes to composing objects
2021-05-17 07:37:33	faceface	bjs: right, I hadn't got to that one yet
2021-05-17 07:37:53	faceface	I'm happy to either return or mutate... not sure which yet ;-)
2021-05-17 07:38:15	bjs	faceface: you see both in Python a lot,  you just don't often see them both in the same function :)
2021-05-17 07:38:15	faceface	I guess it's cleaner not to mutate
2021-05-17 07:38:21	faceface	cool
2021-05-17 07:38:35	bjs	faceface: mutating is fine, if you choose to return something new instead of mutating then I recommend changing the name though
2021-05-17 07:38:43	bjs	(as "update" would imply some kind of mutation to me)
2021-05-17 07:38:56	bjs	something effectful anyway
2021-05-17 07:39:37	faceface	Now I remember I was a bit hesitant to change a dicts values while looping through the dict...
2021-05-17 07:40:07	bjs	faceface: that's okay, you just can't add or remove things from the dict when you do it
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2021-05-17 07:44:27	faceface	ye
2021-05-17 07:44:31	faceface	huge thanks.
2021-05-17 07:45:54	bjs	faceface: one final thing, that moves very much into "preference" now;  but I tend to prefer naming things like "dict_from_snp_string" rather than "snp_string_to_dict" as the latter can sometimes sound more like an effect/update than a creation
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2021-05-17 08:09:24	Air15	How to ignore python logger level inherit if level NOTSET? https://bpa.st/LOXQ
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2021-05-17 08:16:18	Air15	How to ignore python logger level inherit if level NOTSET? https://bpa.st/LOXQ
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2021-05-17 08:27:19	supakeen	No need to repeat the question, if someone knows the answer (and has time to explain) they'll respond :)
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2021-05-17 08:57:08	Gurkenglas	Is there a mode in which I can run torch that is blazingly fast but has nan in every entry of every tensor, so I can check how much memory my hyperparameter settings would use if my gpu had that much memory?
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2021-05-17 09:08:05	nomic	i gather you  can't detect what the encoding of a string is
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2021-05-17 09:08:59	nomic	of course not
2021-05-17 09:09:01	bjs	nomic: strings (a str) does not have an encoding.  Bytes could be in any encoding and there's no way to know
2021-05-17 09:09:15	bjs	you can guess and see if the output is readable, but it's out-of-band information
2021-05-17 09:09:20	nomic	bytes.
2021-05-17 09:09:25	nomic	i meant encoding of bytes, right
2021-05-17 09:09:32	nomic	and i understand that there is no way to detect that
2021-05-17 09:10:48	bjs	nomic: and of course, bytes could just be a random jumble of numbers with no text and no encoding at all
2021-05-17 09:10:52	Kingsy	is it possible to have custom class attributes on a defined exception? So when I raise it, then catch. I could do a pprint(err.some_custom_value) ? this is my exception -> https://bpa.st/CDCQ <- is that valid?
2021-05-17 09:10:58	nomic	understood
2021-05-17 09:11:00	bjs	nomic: there are libraries (like chardet, although it's old i don't know how well it works) that tries to guess
2021-05-17 09:11:15	bjs	nomic: although hopefully for most modern things you can guess utf-8 and it'll "work"
2021-05-17 09:11:27	bjs	Kingsy: yes
2021-05-17 09:11:31	Wulf	Kingsy: try it and see?
2021-05-17 09:11:36	Kingsy	sorry thanks
2021-05-17 09:11:50	 *	bjs Kingsy: the tutorial has some examples of doing just that https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/errors.html#user-defined-exceptions
2021-05-17 09:12:13	Wulf	Kingsy: exceptions are not really special in python. They're classes/objects like any other.
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2021-05-17 09:14:42	Kingsy	thankyou
2021-05-17 09:15:18	Ammar__	Hi, does python automatically merge spaces when added to a string like 's ' + ' ' == 's '  is True?
2021-05-17 09:15:41	bjs	Ammar__: no
2021-05-17 09:15:46	Ammar__	Hmm interesting
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2021-05-17 09:15:59	bjs	Ammar__: print('s ' + ' ' == 's ')  prints False
2021-05-17 09:16:10	bjs	Ammar__: interesting?
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2021-05-17 09:16:54	Ammar__	Okay this is more like a puzzle than an actual question because I kept trying to figure out why Im not getting the intended result turns out python is possibly eating a space without telling
2021-05-17 09:16:56	Ammar__	XD
2021-05-17 09:17:00	Ammar__	I could be wrong though
2021-05-17 09:17:08	Ammar__	I will double check first
2021-05-17 09:17:09	bjs	Ammar__: that sounds like a total guess :)
2021-05-17 09:17:14	leduyquang753	"s " + " " = "s  ".
2021-05-17 09:17:17	bjs	Ammar__: maybe you can share the code and the output?
2021-05-17 09:17:17	Ammar__	Yep
2021-05-17 09:17:24	Ammar__	certainly
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2021-05-17 09:17:48	Ammar__	it's a simple transposition cipher encrypt and decrypt
2021-05-17 09:18:13	leduyquang753	A space is like any other normal character.
2021-05-17 09:18:58	faceface	bjs: roger
2021-05-17 09:19:13	Ammar__	It's probably me bein low on sugar. I will double check then share the code to save you time and me embarassement XD
2021-05-17 09:19:27	 *	CrtxReavr baffles
2021-05-17 09:19:32	CrtxReavr	You're comparing one space to two spaces.
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2021-05-17 09:21:16	Ammar__	Hmm join() could be the culprit does't it merge spaces?  the code https://bpa.st/U6IA
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2021-05-17 09:21:46	bjs	Ammar__: no, join does not merge spaces
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2021-05-17 09:21:51	bjs	Ammar__: (are you guessing again?)
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2021-05-17 09:22:10	bjs	Ammar__: "stripNonAscii" sounds like something that throws away spaces though
2021-05-17 09:22:36	Ammar__	It's not being used. At least not in decrypt
2021-05-17 09:22:42	Ammar__	you can comment it out
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2021-05-17 09:23:10	bjs	Ammar__: do you have an example input/output that shows the spaces being stripped?
2021-05-17 09:23:11	bjs	so we can try
2021-05-17 09:23:11	Ammar__	but my problem is that the message from encrypt should be fed to decrypt along the key and give me back the initial one
2021-05-17 09:23:17	Ammar__	yes
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2021-05-17 09:23:26	Ammar__	'common sense is no so common'
2021-05-17 09:23:31	Ammar__	was the sentence I used
2021-05-17 09:23:37	Ammar__	and I got this
2021-05-17 09:23:56	stealth_	Ammar__, `print(repr(something))` to see what is actually being outputting, don't just assume
2021-05-17 09:24:20	bjs	Ammar__: but if you're using encrypt, which *does* use stripNonAscii, then won't it strip the spaces away
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2021-05-17 09:24:28	bjs	Ammar__: before you ever get to decrypting?
2021-05-17 09:25:08	Ammar__	cenoonommstmme oo snnio s s c| << is the encrypted message but there should be two spaces betweeb the last 's s'
2021-05-17 09:25:40	bjs	Ammar__: yes but you take 'common sense is no so common', then you encrypt it. The first thing your encryptMessage() function does is stripNonAscii(message)
2021-05-17 09:25:44	bjs	Ammar__: which removes the spaces.
2021-05-17 09:25:58	bjs	that's why the encrypted message doesn't have spaces, because your stripNonAscii function removed them.
2021-05-17 09:26:05	Ammar__	No, I commented it out. Still the same
2021-05-17 09:27:25	bjs	Ammar__: what's an example message/key to try then?
2021-05-17 09:28:03	Ammar__	wait. I will hard code it and share again to you trouble
2021-05-17 09:28:09	Ammar__	save you*
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2021-05-17 09:32:39	phy1729	I think encrypt boils down to return ''.join(message[i::key] for i in range(key)   but for a key of 8 I get   cenmonomms omesno oni  scs o
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2021-05-17 09:39:51	Ammar__	bjs, https://bpa.st/H5BQ now all you need is type encrypt and decrypt
2021-05-17 09:40:22	Ammar__	To see what Im talking about
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2021-05-17 09:41:06	xsx	is it normal to receive this via sys.exc_info()? my app.py contains only `breakpoint()`: (<class 'AttributeError'>, AttributeError("'Pdb' object has no attribute 'do_sys'"), <traceback object at 0x1039ec0c0>)
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2021-05-17 09:44:36	bjs	Ammar__: the obvious question is, is it really anything to do with spaces?
2021-05-17 09:45:04	Ammar__	bjs, the answer is no. Because I tasted with stars instead and it's the same result
2021-05-17 09:45:22	bjs	Ammar__: okay, so now it just sounds like your encrypt or decrypt functions are broken
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2021-05-17 09:47:17	Gurkenglas	Can I say "evaluate a = foo(2) and when a.bar.baz is written to, pause" to the debugger?
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2021-05-17 09:49:31	amogorkon	i sense a syntax error
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2021-05-17 09:51:24	Ammar__	but but it shouldn't :'( when you do this with pen and paper there should be two spaces between S S  *sighs* I need to run it in my head step by step
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2021-05-17 09:51:53	bjs	Ammar__: maybe you can shrink it down to a smaller example that fails that makes it easier to see what happened
2021-05-17 09:52:01	bjs	it's quite a big example to run through on paper
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2021-05-17 09:53:58	amogorkon	Ammar__, did you try using a debugger like thonny to see what it does?
2021-05-17 09:54:01	stealth_	Ammar__, you need to print each variable to see what is being outputting so you can narrow down where the flaw is happening. running it in your head isn't going to cut it.
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2021-05-17 09:54:43	Ammar__	amogorkon, thanks I will try it out
2021-05-17 09:54:51	Ammar__	stealth_ you are right :(
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2021-05-17 09:58:46	mrtnt	Let's say, that I have an function named info_cleanup() which takes a list as an argument, modifies the elements in a list and returns the modified list. Is it fine to call this function like this: "info_list = info_cleanup(info_list)"? Or should one assign the modified list to a variable with a different name, e.g "info_list_modified = info_cleanup(info_list)"?
2021-05-17 09:59:31	sinanislekdemir	lists are passed as reference. so in-place list modifications are already applied, no need to return it
2021-05-17 09:59:37	tos9	mrtnt: usually one should try not to have such a function
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2021-05-17 10:00:03	tos9	mrtnt: but if you do, don't assign its result
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2021-05-17 10:00:08	tos9	sinanislekdemir: (all Python objects are passed the same way)
2021-05-17 10:00:22	tos9	mrtnt: just call it as `info_cleanup(info_list)` and then keep using info_list
2021-05-17 10:00:45	mrtnt	thanks!
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2021-05-17 10:01:06	SnoopJ	"by object reference" is a slightly better way to describe it: https://web.archive.org/web/20200605011650/https://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
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2021-05-17 10:03:25	sinanislekdemir	mrtnt: that pattern can lead to unwanted behaviors and can be dangerous tho. so as @tos9 mentioned, try to avoid it unless you really know what you are doing. I only used that pattern in micro-python to avoid unnecessary memory usage
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2021-05-17 10:06:31	nindustries	Hi! I have a python application in a Docker container based on debian minimal that's suddenly crashing with: free(): invalid pointer. Any ideas?
2021-05-17 10:06:40	amogorkon	mrtnt, if you return something, the user usually assumes it is a new object to be used without side-effects. if you really want to work with side-effects, you should be explicit about them by not returning the thing
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2021-05-17 10:07:20	amogorkon	it's basically the distinction between sorted(thing) and thing.sort()
2021-05-17 10:07:54	nindustries	strace: https://pastebin.com/raw/ucJZYuMG
2021-05-17 10:07:56	infobob	https://bpaste.net/PNTQ (repasted for nindustries)
2021-05-17 10:07:57	mrtnt	tos9, sinanislekdemir: this function checks if the list element matches a certain pattern and if it does, then removes this element from the list. I'm not sure if this can cause any side-effects or not..
2021-05-17 10:08:26	Ammar__	I found the problem ^^ the message should be padded to match columns * rows
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2021-05-17 10:08:34	amogorkon	Ammar__, how did you find it?
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2021-05-17 10:09:14	sinanislekdemir	mrtnt: if I were reading a code review, I'd personally expect to see a `filter(` call instead of that pattern. sounds better matching for the scenario + readability but you are the code owner and you know the details better :)
2021-05-17 10:09:23	Ammar__	amogorkon, I printed each step out and checked it manually why the second space isn't being added
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2021-05-17 10:09:42	amogorkon	Ammar__, did you try with thonny? ;)
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2021-05-17 10:10:46	Ammar__	running windows xp I was worried it may not run on it. So I got lazy and didn't check it out yet. But I will
2021-05-17 10:10:54	amogorkon	;)
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2021-05-17 10:11:33	mrtnt	sinanislekdemir: thanks! I wasn't aware of filter(). I'll use that.
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2021-05-17 10:12:32	phy1729	Ammar__: it doesn't need to be padded
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2021-05-17 10:13:13	sinanislekdemir	mrtnt: filter, map and reduce methods are quite handy and much better performing than interpreted loops :)
2021-05-17 10:13:15	Ammar__	phy1729, but it will get to the next letter and ignore the space if not padded
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2021-05-17 10:14:36	phy1729	encode: ''.join(message[i::key] for i in range(key))   decode:  skips=[(len(message) + key - 1 - i)//key for i in range(key)]; ''.join(message[i + sum(skips[:j])] for i in range(max(skips)) for j in range(key) if i < skips[j])
2021-05-17 10:14:53	SnoopJ	nindustries, I'm not great at reading strace output, but my top suspect there would be some misbehavior in grpc's memory management. I'd be reaching for gdb to figure out exactly what it's trying to free().
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2021-05-17 10:16:48	nindustries	hmm, you'd think it would occur in
2021-05-17 10:16:54	nindustries	 /lib/aarch64-linux-gnu/librt.so.1
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2021-05-17 10:20:22	Yhg1s	sinanislekdemir: they don't actually perform better except in very specific cases (when calling a pre-existing function written in C)
2021-05-17 10:20:25	SnoopJ	nindustries, I see what you mean and agree: grpc may not actually be performing the offending free(). The problem isn't going to show up in an strace because the logic responsible for calling free() when it makes sense to do so is before any syscalls
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2021-05-17 10:21:22	Yhg1s	nindustries: strace is also limited because it's only tracing system calls. lltrace does a little better, but not as well as an actual debugger.
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2021-05-17 10:22:00	nindustries	I might need to admit I'm only capable of doing the occasional strace:D   Very odd it doesn't happen with a regular `docker run`, but it does with Docker for Mac Kubernetes.
2021-05-17 10:22:40	nindustries	I wonder if it has to do with a LD_PRELOAD env variable or so.
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2021-05-17 10:23:02	SnoopJ	seems unlikely unless you're patching one of these libraries specifically
2021-05-17 10:23:05	Yhg1s	nindustries: it certainly could, if you're setting one.
2021-05-17 10:23:42	nindustries	Well I'm not setting one FWIW
2021-05-17 10:23:54	nindustries	But could be that there's no longer one set if running on the user defined by Kubernetes
2021-05-17 10:23:55	SnoopJ	hmm, actually upon review, the free() could originate in something else loaded earlier I guess. the problem with strace is that you're only seeing the syscall boundary, you're not learning much about the program's guts
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2021-05-17 10:24:49	nindustries	Hmm, no LD_PRELOAD set
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2021-05-17 10:25:42	SnoopJ	nindustries, are you comfortable with using gdb in a case like this? It really does report quite a lot more contextual information in the case of a failure like this (e.g. the stack trace)
2021-05-17 10:26:10	nindustries	I've only used the occasional strace tbh
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2021-05-17 10:28:46	enrh	I'm looking to test my syslog ingestion process with generating some messages with Python and sending via UDP syslog. I wanted go with UDP so I could forge/spoof the IP, since my syslog ingestion keys off of that. Perhaps I could spoof, or I could actually create real IPs but on my local loopback and specify that to the Python socket method. However the former would be simpler to maintain, but is
2021-05-17 10:28:47	enrh	it possible?
2021-05-17 10:28:56	SnoopJ	nindustries, okay, let's back up a step or two, then: Does this happen pretty much right when you run your program, or does it happen some time after startup? Is it reliably reproducible?
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2021-05-17 10:32:34	Ammar__	phy1729, you are a magician! and it's beautiful :')
2021-05-17 10:32:42	Ammar__	It worked like charm.
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2021-05-17 10:33:46	Ammar__	Now I need to break it down and understand that serpent of a code. Python is beautiful, not just efficient.
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2021-05-17 10:33:59	nindustries	Oh wow. I've ruled out that it's only the case if I add-in my configuration. Interesting.
2021-05-17 10:34:45	 *	SnoopJ is skeptical about "only" but that does sound like more information
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2021-05-17 10:37:56	amogorkon	if i wanted to normalize 1D data ranging from -1400 to 3000 per point onto [0,1] with min(data) => 0 and max(data) => 1 but also 0 => 0.5?
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2021-05-17 10:38:23	amogorkon	how to go about it?
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2021-05-17 10:38:50	SnoopJ	amogorkon, what does "0 => 0.5" mean? You want the datum 0 mapped to the middle of the unit interval?
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2021-05-17 10:38:57	amogorkon	yes
2021-05-17 10:39:05	phy1729	That depends on what you want. You can't use a single linear transformation, but you could do something piecewise or quadratic
2021-05-17 10:39:09	nindustries	WOW. So it's caused by `from google.cloud import pubsub_v1`
2021-05-17 10:39:23	nindustries	Odd.
2021-05-17 10:39:23	SnoopJ	you don't need anything that sophisticated, an affine transformation should do
2021-05-17 10:39:50	phy1729	SnoopJ: not with 3 fixed points
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2021-05-17 10:40:24	lpapp	hi, a=[1,2,3]; -> can I get a[0:2] as two arguments to pass to a function?
2021-05-17 10:41:15	SnoopJ	phy1729, hmm, I guess you're right, it'd be overconstrained with only two parameters
2021-05-17 10:42:12	amogorkon	phy1729, how would it work with a quadratic?
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2021-05-17 10:45:05	stealth_	lpapp, `function(*a[0:2])`
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2021-05-17 10:46:46	lpapp	yep, googled in the meantime, thanks!
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2021-05-17 10:50:31	phy1729	Really more of a ##math question, but (-1400, 0), (0, 0.5), (3000, 1) specifies the curve 0.5 (x+1400)(x-3000)/((1400)(-3000)) + 1 (x+1400)(x)/((3000+1400)(3000))   (assuming I did that right) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_polynomial
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2021-05-17 10:50:57	amogorkon	phy1729, thanks
2021-05-17 10:51:10	amogorkon	well, given i'm working with numpy, it
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2021-05-17 10:51:36	killer	hey, i have a get call coming, which has array in it, so it comes like     'value' or 'value1,value2' , first case has only one item in array while second one has two items in array
2021-05-17 10:51:51	amogorkon	may be sufficiently ontopic ^^
2021-05-17 10:51:54	killer	So, my question is how can i convert 'value1,value2' to ' "value1", "value2" ',  that is i want to put double quotes arounf it
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2021-05-17 10:52:28	SnoopJ	amogorkon, I'd probably introduce a third parameter into the system here to shift the domain so that it's balanced around 0, then rescale it to [-0.5, 0.5] and shift up by 0.5
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2021-05-17 10:52:40	xsx	https://bpa.st/FBPA - decorator for D(C) doesn't work as "expected" as line 14 i called 2 times: first (desired) and the for already wrapped C.__init__ that overrides pkg.x value to the same as for C class.
2021-05-17 10:52:58	SnoopJ	I think the solution I proposed earlier is fine if the domain is already symmetrical, and making it that way is the extra step
2021-05-17 10:52:58	xsx	s/\bi\b/is
2021-05-17 10:53:22	_habnabit	killer, is this csv?
2021-05-17 10:53:28	killer	no
2021-05-17 10:53:42	killer	so a get call is passing them as value1,value2
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2021-05-17 10:54:06	killer	so something like a = 'value1,value2'
2021-05-17 10:54:19	_habnabit	xsx, you're not wrapping __init__
2021-05-17 10:54:23	killer	I wanna put double quotes around it _habnabit
2021-05-17 10:54:31	_habnabit	xsx, class decorators wrap the class, not any method
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2021-05-17 10:54:58	xsx	_habnabit: please see line no 8
2021-05-17 10:55:58	_habnabit	xsx, oh. sure.. if you're doing that and you don't define __init__ on class D, python doesn't synthesize one for you
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2021-05-17 10:56:48	stealth_	killer, `', '.join([f'"{i}"' for i in a.split(',')])`
2021-05-17 10:57:03	stealth_	killer, `', '.join(f'"{i}"' for i in a.split(','))`
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2021-05-17 10:57:15	_habnabit	xsx, if that's the behavior you want, you can make your own dummy __init__
2021-05-17 10:57:22	xsx	_habnabit: true, and this is why i'm looking for better approach. i don't want to redefine D.__init__, in this case it's exactly same C.__init__
2021-05-17 10:57:25	stealth_	killer, also can't you code such solution yourself? beats the fun of coding
2021-05-17 10:57:44	_habnabit	xsx, clearly it isn't exactly the same: you want to change its behvior
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2021-05-17 10:58:13	SnoopJ	stealth_, if it's not fun to help, it's not obligatory
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2021-05-17 10:58:47	_habnabit	xsx, you can check if the class decorated has its own __init__ and make a dummy one that does nothing but upcall
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2021-05-17 10:59:27	xsx	_habnabit: mmmmm tricky, let me try it
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2021-05-17 11:00:00	killer	i googled but i didnt know which way to go
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2021-05-17 11:00:15	killer	 'VIC,HELLO '.join(f'"{i}"' for i in a.split(',')), it just puts paranthesis around "VIC"
2021-05-17 11:00:39	_habnabit	killer, programming involves knowing how to synthesize your own solutions. it's very rare you'll be able to search for a pre-packaged solution to any problem
2021-05-17 11:01:29	xsx	_habnabit: uhm, but in this way i will lose the actual inherited __init__ (before wrapping it), that I still want to use for the inherited class
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2021-05-17 11:01:47	_habnabit	xsx, i'm not sure what you mean
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2021-05-17 11:02:36	xsx	D.__init__ should be equal to C.__init__ (before decoration), using dummy __init__ would not allow to reuse original C.__init__, right?
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2021-05-17 11:02:48	_habnabit	xsx, that's why i said "does nothing but upcall"
2021-05-17 11:02:52	stealth_	killer, if you `a += ',VIC,HELLO'` and run the previous code
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2021-05-17 11:03:36	_habnabit	xsx, you'd still put e.g. `super(D, self).__init__(*a, **kw)` in it if the class you wrapped ever lacked __init__
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2021-05-17 11:03:51	_habnabit	xsx, or `super(obj, self)` since you're calling the class obj
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2021-05-17 11:04:16	xsx	_habnabit: yeah, but then super() is already decorated C class, so we are back to the starting point
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2021-05-17 11:04:31	_habnabit	xsx, ..? i don't understand
2021-05-17 11:04:55	_habnabit	xsx, you want to avoid calling the wrapped method on the parent class? just call its un-wrapped version?
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2021-05-17 11:05:02	xsx	_habnabit: yes
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2021-05-17 11:05:20	SnoopJ	that's starting to sound like attrs levels of metaprogramming magick
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2021-05-17 11:05:44	_habnabit	xsx, yeah, that's not possible if the way you want to do this is replace __init__. but.. your example here is idempotent anyway, so why would that matter?
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2021-05-17 11:08:26	alt0id	hey is there a python package that allows me to view changes on a web page
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2021-05-17 11:10:40	SnoopJ	alt0id, difflib might be useful. What kind of changes are you interested in?
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2021-05-17 11:12:43	xsx	_habnabit: i'm ok to not to replace __init__, it was just my idea. here is more extended example, that shows the reason why I wanted to wrap __init__: https://bpa.st/DHAQ
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2021-05-17 11:13:16	alt0id	SnoopJ: events like being able to press "accept" in case that happens to be available
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2021-05-17 11:14:22	_habnabit	xsx, looks like you're reinventing https://gather.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ (or its underlying venusian)
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2021-05-17 11:15:36	xsx	hmm, yeah, looks quite similar
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2021-05-17 11:16:25	_habnabit	xsx, gather is quite good for this kind of marking/scanning
2021-05-17 11:17:25	CustosLimen	Is this accurate: https://github.com/RDFLib/rdflib/pull/1213/files#r633624221
2021-05-17 11:17:26	xsx	_habnabit: i bet, but i can't use it here, so i need to work on my own
2021-05-17 11:17:30	_habnabit	xsx, why not
2021-05-17 11:17:45	xsx	_habnabit: i can't go out of stdlib
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2021-05-17 11:17:59	_habnabit	xsx, yuck. who's imposing that requirement?
2021-05-17 11:18:02	CustosLimen	Or rather, let me ask directly, will this result in inifinite recursion: def __repr__(): return f"Namespace({self!r})"
2021-05-17 11:18:07	_habnabit	CustosLimen, yes
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2021-05-17 11:18:15	xsx	_habnabit: the person who owns my money ;)
2021-05-17 11:18:17	CustosLimen	thanks
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2021-05-17 11:18:35	_habnabit	xsx, can you pretend like you wrote it and sneak it in anyway? it's permissively licensed
2021-05-17 11:18:38	SnoopJ	alt0id, ah. This is for browser automation, then? If you're using Selenium, it seems like they've introduced a way to do this in version 4: https://www.selenium.dev/documentation/en/webdriver/bidi_apis/
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2021-05-17 11:18:54	SnoopJ	I'm not sure what it would look like if the DOM were changed to insert *new* elements, though.
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2021-05-17 11:19:29	alt0id	SnoopJ: hmmm, will look into it
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2021-05-17 11:27:58	krobzaur	 
2021-05-17 11:28:03	CustosLimen	If I have 3 classes, class ClsA(str): pass; class ClsB(ClsB); pass; - what would super().__new__ for ClsB do? call ClsA.__new__ or str.__new__? I guess it will call ClsA.__new__? Not sure where in docs this is said exactly
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2021-05-17 11:28:54	_habnabit	CustosLimen, i don't think you can use 0-arg super in __new__. it's a very weird method. i don't recommend using it
2021-05-17 11:29:12	_habnabit	CustosLimen, .. subclassing str is itself also quite strange
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2021-05-17 11:29:48	stealth_	also how does `ClsB(ClsB)` that work!
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2021-05-17 11:30:05	CustosLimen	stealth_: typo, I meant ClsB(ClsA)
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2021-05-17 11:30:36	CustosLimen	_habnabit: okay, thanks, still reviewing that PR, will maybe test or ask for tests
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2021-05-17 11:30:51	stealth_	CustosLimen, `super` goes up 1 level/class
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2021-05-17 11:31:14	_habnabit	stealth_, no. super visits the next class on the MRO
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2021-05-17 11:31:29	CustosLimen	yeah, so if it works as in __init__, then it would bee ClsA if called in ClsB, not str
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2021-05-17 11:31:51	stealth_	_habnabit, mro?
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2021-05-17 11:32:28	_habnabit	CustosLimen, incorrect. super calls the next defined method, which would skip ClsA and go to str if it isn't defined in ClsA
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2021-05-17 11:32:47	CustosLimen	_habnabit: okay but if it was defined in ClsA
2021-05-17 11:32:47	stealth_	_habnabit, well ya
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2021-05-17 11:33:10	_habnabit	CustosLimen, then it would go to ClsA
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2021-05-17 11:33:18	_habnabit	CustosLimen, wherever the method is defined next
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2021-05-17 11:40:18	Gurkenglas	Can I specify code for pytorch to run every time a tensor is created?
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2021-05-17 11:44:21	P1ckleRick	Gurkenglas: anything is possible :)
2021-05-17 11:44:24	xsx	_habnabit: how about this: https://bpa.st/UVNQ ?
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2021-05-17 12:01:21	todda7	given the type Set, can I create a set()    ??
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2021-05-17 12:02:34	mdk	todda7: why would you do this?
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2021-05-17 12:05:58	stealth_	todda7, `type(set())('abc')`
2021-05-17 12:06:28	mdk	stealth_: I think he ask about typing.Set
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2021-05-17 12:06:53	todda7	mdk: yes
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2021-05-17 12:07:38	mdk	Everything's possible but ... I suspect an XY problem.
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2021-05-17 12:10:42	stealth_	mdk, `a = getattr(builtins, 'set')`
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2021-05-17 12:11:31	mdk	todda7: have you missed my question or are you not replying on purpose?
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2021-05-17 12:16:12	stealth_	todda7, `a = getattr(builtins, typing.Set._name.lower())('abc')` :D
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2021-05-17 12:20:01	mdk	Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, damned, too late. It was an XY problem, it could have been solved beautifully if todda7 had given to us the X problem, todda7 though Y would solve X, you solved Y. Now it's ugly. I'm so sad.
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2021-05-17 12:27:48	stealth_	mdk, what are you talking about?
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2021-05-17 12:28:35	mdk	todda7 issue. I think it was an (XY problem)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem]
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2021-05-17 12:41:09	tomg	How do I save my exceptions so the original exception is raised in the final raise statement?  https://dpaste.com/6AMH9HKRT
2021-05-17 12:41:45	yitz	tomg: `raise` no args
2021-05-17 12:41:56	yitz	Oh. nvm. Misread
2021-05-17 12:41:59	tomg	hehe
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2021-05-17 12:42:14	yitz	`except Exception as foo:` .... and something with foo
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2021-05-17 12:42:42	tomg	i thought i had it right
2021-05-17 12:42:45	yitz	You can `raise foo` I think but you lose the traceback
2021-05-17 12:42:52	tomg	hmm
2021-05-17 12:43:16	tomg	    raise saved_exception
2021-05-17 12:43:16	tomg	ValueError: test exception 1
2021-05-17 12:43:16	yitz	Also, `raise ValueError("test exception")`
2021-05-17 12:43:25	tomg	okay
2021-05-17 12:43:28	tomg	oh all right
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2021-05-17 12:44:55	tomg	thanks
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2021-05-17 12:46:12	stealth_	tomg, https://bpa.st/3TCA
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2021-05-17 12:47:48	tomg	hi stealth_, i switched to python-gnupg in my code... next step is probably to migrate to python 3
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2021-05-17 12:48:33	stealth_	tomg, python2 support ended starting of this year
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2021-05-17 12:49:16	tomg	i still have to use a tempfile though, python-gnupg doesn't allow verification of signatures with only file objects or data variables
2021-05-17 12:49:22	tomg	yeah i know
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2021-05-17 12:57:21	Elodin	Is there a way to change the file encoding to utf8 without knowing the source encoding?
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2021-05-17 12:58:10	bjs	Elodin: no,  because if you dont know the source encoding you don't know what the actual contents are
2021-05-17 12:58:15	bjs	so you can't turn it into the new encoding
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2021-05-17 12:58:32	bjs	at least not in a way that actually means the file has the same text in it in the new encoding
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2021-05-17 13:01:12	stealth_	Elodin, well you can change it, but if the original wasn't utf8 or ASCII, the result will be wrong.
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2021-05-17 13:05:14	astronavt	using the tornado async http test case, i'm able to make requests with the synchronous method 'self.fetch()', but can't make requests with the async 'self.http_client.fetch()' method - the latter gives me this error: https://bpa.st/NJZQ
2021-05-17 13:05:28	astronavt	has anyone had this problem before? didnt find anything that looked similar on google or stackoverflow
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2021-05-17 13:15:33	graingert	astronavt: how are you calling async_fetch_for_status?
2021-05-17 13:15:52	astronavt	graingert: just with await. the test is an `async def` method and it's decorated with `@gen_test`
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2021-05-17 13:16:16	astronavt	can provide more context if needed although i will have to sanitize it
2021-05-17 13:16:21	astronavt	s/it/the code/
2021-05-17 13:16:33	graingert	astronavt: Ok well try and make a runnable example
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2021-05-17 13:20:51	karlpinc	I've downloaded and installed python (latest stable) on MS Windows 10.  Can I run virtualenv from the powershell command line or is there some other way to make a venv?
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2021-05-17 13:23:31	karlpinc	Humm.  I'll try: python -m venv ....
2021-05-17 13:23:36	graingert	karlpinc: python3.9 -m venv should work
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2021-05-17 13:24:32	karlpinc	graingert: Worked.  Thanks.
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2021-05-17 13:25:26	karlpinc	(ugh.  Scripts\...  :)
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2021-05-17 13:31:27	wenijinew	anybody every faced the problem the timeout doesn't work for subprocess? https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.run
2021-05-17 13:31:43	ioxzev1z	wenijinew, elaborate
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2021-05-17 13:32:59	graingert	wenijinew: Child process might not be being killed
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2021-05-17 13:35:07	wenijinew	then, how to troubleshoot it?
2021-05-17 13:35:47	wenijinew	for example, run git clone for some big repo
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2021-05-17 13:43:03	parapan	hi all; so: x=1, y =2, sum = x + y, def fct(); ...etc; now ? how would I go to the next level ? writting classes , functions with kwargs, etc, etc ? where are the tutorials for the next level ?
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2021-05-17 13:44:27	stealth_	parapan, https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html https://www.pythonsheets.com/
2021-05-17 13:44:41	ioxzev1z	parapan, wat
2021-05-17 13:44:58	parapan	stealth_ , ok, let me check that . . . .
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2021-05-17 13:45:21	bjs	parapan: we're not sure what you're asking
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2021-05-17 13:46:21	ioxzev1z	bjs, I think he needs help on where to go next after var=val
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2021-05-17 13:47:06	_habnabit	ioxzev1z, 'he'? ;)
2021-05-17 13:47:11	ioxzev1z	_habnabit, it
2021-05-17 13:47:17	_habnabit	ioxzev1z, let's go with 'they'
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2021-05-17 13:47:20	todda7	given the same items in set1 and set2, is the order the same, whether set1 and set2
2021-05-17 13:47:24	ioxzev1z	_habnabit, Everyone's a robot here
2021-05-17 13:47:26	todda7	comes first
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2021-05-17 13:47:30	_habnabit	todda7, sets don't have order
2021-05-17 13:47:44	todda7	_habnabit: so they will always pickle the same?
2021-05-17 13:47:48	todda7	given the same items
2021-05-17 13:47:53	_habnabit	todda7, well, that isn't the same question
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2021-05-17 13:48:08	todda7	no
2021-05-17 13:48:12	todda7	but will they
2021-05-17 13:48:14	bjs	todda7: no
2021-05-17 13:48:14	_habnabit	todda7, what would it mean to 'pickle the same'? you can't compare the binary output of pickle
2021-05-17 13:48:38	todda7	_habnabit: you can with lists, no?
2021-05-17 13:48:45	todda7	you can compare the binady output?
2021-05-17 13:48:48	_habnabit	todda7, no. not with any object
2021-05-17 13:48:52	bjs	todda7: you really shouldn't,  it implies you're doing something very wrong
2021-05-17 13:49:03	_habnabit	todda7, pickle is not defined to be comparable after serialization
2021-05-17 13:49:16	todda7	_habnabit: is feather? or json?
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2021-05-17 13:49:18	bjs	todda7: pickle gives no guarantees about what the final bytes actually look like, or how that corresponds to the objects underneath
2021-05-17 13:49:23	_habnabit	todda7, not really. what's your goal?
2021-05-17 13:49:41	_habnabit	todda7, serialization formats very rarely define any sort of 'canonical' representation which can be used to compare the serialized bytes
2021-05-17 13:49:42	todda7	_habnabit: avoid uploading files on AWS s3 if they already exists
2021-05-17 13:49:57	todda7	by comparing ETag, i.e. MD5 checksum
2021-05-17 13:49:57	bjs	todda7: what does pickle have to do with it?
2021-05-17 13:50:08	parapan	bjs: I mean I can deal with variables, functions, basic things and some GUI design in Tkinter; however ...most of the time if I search for some code samples they are written with classes and based on the advanced concepts: abstraction, inheritance, reusability, etc, etc ...
2021-05-17 13:50:13	todda7	bjs: wel lim uploading pickles
2021-05-17 13:50:15	todda7	or json
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2021-05-17 13:50:28	bjs	todda7: don't upload pickles, json can work
2021-05-17 13:50:29	_habnabit	ioxzev1z, my overwhelming experience has been the people on this channel are, in fact, people. 'they' is a good choice if you don't know how else to refer to someone
2021-05-17 13:51:06	_habnabit	todda7, pickle is not suited to any sort of long-term storage. it doesn't provide any guarantee that you'll be able to unserialize the same bytes after the python process has exited
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2021-05-17 13:51:25	ioxzev1z	_habnabit, I was trying to lighten the mood, it's difficult to always think of pronouns when the basic "he" can apply when there is no direct evidence for "she" and soforth
2021-05-17 13:51:53	_habnabit	ioxzev1z, that's why i'm reminding you about 'they' :)  it's a good habit to develop if you haven't yet
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2021-05-17 13:51:55	bjs	todda7: e.g. you _cannot_ give me a pickle and have me open it.  (1) it's unsafe and I'm never going to unpickle something that came over the internet and (2) it almost certainly wouldn't work
2021-05-17 13:52:29	bjs	todda7: JSON however works great and I will definitely be able to load() it and get back whatever you dump()d
2021-05-17 13:52:48	todda7	alternatives to pickle and json?
2021-05-17 13:52:52	todda7	json is slow and big
2021-05-17 13:52:59	_habnabit	todda7, json is _way_ faster than pickle
2021-05-17 13:53:03	graingert	todda7: CSV?
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2021-05-17 13:53:19	wenijinew	when set shell=False, the problem solved
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2021-05-17 13:54:09	_habnabit	todda7, agreed with bjs, though json also doesn't define a canonical representation. comparing its serialized bytes can be false even if the encoded data is the same
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2021-05-17 13:54:58	bjs	pickle is bad because even the same bytes can be different objects on two different machines
2021-05-17 13:55:26	_habnabit	pickle is bad for many reasons but that is one of them yes
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2021-05-17 13:56:45	parapan	I'm wondering if there is such a thing like "advanced python programming for the 3'rd years old" . . . .
2021-05-17 13:56:45	astronavt	omg... was i supposed to be using `@gen_test()` and not `@gen_test`?
2021-05-17 13:57:08	astronavt	i checked the source code and it looked like it was "auto-detecting" whether or not the first arg was callable
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2021-05-17 13:57:58	astronavt	also graingert i can't reproduce with a minimal example... so this error might be something bubbling up from somewhere else
2021-05-17 13:58:04	todda7	_habnabit: I'm just worried about the MD5 sum, when comparing binary output of same content written with same versions of python across 2 computers
2021-05-17 13:58:12	astronavt	so many layers of indirection with all this tornado stuff
2021-05-17 13:58:21	_habnabit	todda7, well, absolutely never use md5 anyway
2021-05-17 13:58:26	todda7	same major version
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2021-05-17 13:58:35	todda7	_habnabit: not my choice!
2021-05-17 13:58:40	SnoopJ	todda7, the `orjson` library is as I understand it quite popular in cases where `json` is slow enough to care
2021-05-17 13:58:42	todda7	its Amazon AWS
2021-05-17 13:58:51	bjs	todda7: definitely do not use pickle then, because two files can have the same bytes for pickle but have come from different objects
2021-05-17 13:59:03	bjs	todda7: definitely switch to JSON, _then_ decide whether you want something better than json
2021-05-17 13:59:27	todda7	i mostly convert to pandas then use feather
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2021-05-17 13:59:29	bjs	todda7: and if you have a pickle file and update Python, or change the code slightly,  the pickle can break.
2021-05-17 13:59:37	bjs	and you won't be able to open it anymore
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2021-05-17 13:59:49	todda7	been there
2021-05-17 13:59:52	todda7	pickle sucks
2021-05-17 14:00:12	Gurkenglas	P1ckleRick, how would I tell pytorch to run a given piece of code for every created tensorß
2021-05-17 14:00:29	bjs	todda7: not to mention the massive security hole of arbitrary code execution that is pickle, which might be a worry if you have things open on AWS
2021-05-17 14:00:36	bjs	it depends where these pickles are coming from and how much you trust them
2021-05-17 14:00:36	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, at creation time, or afterward?
2021-05-17 14:00:45	Gurkenglas	SnoopJ, at creation time
2021-05-17 14:01:09	Gurkenglas	I mean, soon after would also be okay if the creator is still in the callstack.
2021-05-17 14:01:13	GrouchyHedgehog	Ok, I've got a fun puzzle. Python 2 POpen, I need to clear out stdout before I write data to stdin and then read everything from stdout
2021-05-17 14:01:27	Gurkenglas	I'd like to extract what the creator will call the tensor from the traceback.
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2021-05-17 14:01:35	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, not sure there's any way to do that aside from replacing/patching the class itself.
2021-05-17 14:01:45	GrouchyHedgehog	i.e., sometimes my app writes to stdout before there's any input on stdin and all that output is stuff I wanna throw away
2021-05-17 14:02:02	Gurkenglas	I think the innards of torch are C++, so I can't even just overwrite __init__
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2021-05-17 14:02:39	Gurkenglas	My current plan is to define a function that takes a module (presumably torch) and wrap every function to try equipping every tensor with a name asap
2021-05-17 14:03:00	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, it depends on what "the innards" means to you, but Tensor is defined in Python either way.
2021-05-17 14:03:03	s8548a	I am unable to get rid of this "kicost" pip package even after uninstalling the old python versions
2021-05-17 14:03:04	s8548a	https://i.imgur.com/xxWG75V.png
2021-05-17 14:03:11	s8548a	please help
2021-05-17 14:03:56	Gurkenglas	SnoopJ, so replacing Tensor.__init__ should just-work^tm? https://github.com/szagoruyko/pytorchviz/issues/59 soudned like no
2021-05-17 14:04:34	s8548a	current python version is Python 3.8.5
2021-05-17 14:04:46	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, you can modify the Python class Tensor. I have no idea about the context of that ticket, it's pretty light on details
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2021-05-17 14:05:01	SnoopJ	You shouldn't replace __init__ anyway, you should at most wrap it
2021-05-17 14:05:11	Gurkenglas	SnoopJ, what's the difference?
2021-05-17 14:05:35	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, "replace" to me sounds like "throw away the old one"
2021-05-17 14:05:57	Gurkenglas	aight ill say wrap then
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2021-05-17 14:14:43	SnoopJ	Gurkenglas, https://bpa.st/KORA
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2021-05-17 14:16:26	SnoopJ	Line 4 isn't really necessary, I had to mess around a little bit because `torch.tensor` is a function as well as the name of a package, but I ended up not needing to care about that (gross) behavior
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2021-05-17 14:31:50	Air15	Need Regex expression for this https://bpa.st/NJIQ pattern
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2021-05-17 14:32:55	doc|home	Air15: https://regex101.com/ will help you figure one out
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2021-05-17 14:33:47	JamesB192	I am trying to set up a cross-building docker image for CIand having trouble with getting Python to cross-compile. Could someone point me toward a guide? log & stuff -> https://bpa.st/YPAA
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2021-05-17 14:41:39	karlpinc	How can I easily "clean" an MS Windows path (a string) of characters that MS Windows does not like in it's path?  (I get an OSError.)
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2021-05-17 14:45:15	nkuttler	karlpinc: probably depends on how it's "dirty".. remove non-ascii chars?
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2021-05-17 14:45:54	nkuttler	karlpinc: you might also want to look into something like unicode-slugify
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2021-05-17 14:46:33	karlpinc	nkuttler: 7-bit ascii?
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2021-05-17 14:47:04	nkuttler	i don't know windows filesystems
2021-05-17 14:47:08	karlpinc	nkuttler: At the momement I think the complaint is that there's a double quote (") character that got in there somehow.
2021-05-17 14:47:17	karlpinc	nkuttler: Me neither.  :)
2021-05-17 14:47:36	karlpinc	I will search pypi....
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2021-05-17 14:49:39	karlpinc	(There seem to be a large number of ways to "break" a MS Windows file system path:
2021-05-17 14:49:42	karlpinc	https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/naming-a-file
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2021-05-17 14:51:43	refusenick	python-lsp-server is pretty slow on this laptop (Thinkpad X200), and I'd like to speed it up
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2021-05-17 14:52:05	refusenick	I have it installed via pipx, and I also manage Python itself via pyenv
2021-05-17 14:52:33	refusenick	Has anyone tried running it (or python-language-server, from which it forked) with PyPy?
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2021-05-17 14:53:38	vxvshnuj	pyright is snappy
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2021-05-17 14:54:22	vxvshnuj	pyls has always been sluggish when I used it, pyright was made to be fast by solely supporting typed/stubbed completion
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2021-05-17 14:54:41	vxvshnuj	no deep analysis, like in pyls/jedi/etc
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2021-05-17 14:55:33	refusenick	vxvshnuj: Oh, I forgot that was an option. I'll take a look.
2021-05-17 14:56:07	refusenick	(I checked out the MS one and nope'd out when I saw I'd have to install C# (presumably Mono on Linux?))
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2021-05-17 14:56:44	vxvshnuj	yeah, I used that one too
2021-05-17 14:57:04	vxvshnuj	but it's now deprecated in favor of pylance, which is based on pyright
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2021-05-17 14:57:28	vxvshnuj	and it was quite slow on analysis as well
2021-05-17 14:58:22	vxvshnuj	(I don't use pylance, I use coc-pyright on nvim)
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2021-05-17 14:59:49	karlpinc	This seems a cogent discussion of how to validate MS Windows path names: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9532499/check-whether-a-path-is-valid-in-python-without-creating-a-file-at-the-paths-ta  tl;dr  MS Windows is awful.  Forget it.
2021-05-17 15:00:23	refusenick	karlpinc: Oh, I haven't used Windows in.... a long time
2021-05-17 15:00:41	legplant	hi folks - would anyone know how to visualize a scatter in 3 dimensions on a radar plot? say, % full weight, height, and length of a container?
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2021-05-17 15:02:13	legplant	ideally I would like to show a cluster to the lower right (to show a tendancy to fill up on our weight allotment first) for example
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2021-05-17 15:02:44	 *	refusenick sees pyright requires npm
2021-05-17 15:02:53	refusenick	noted...
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2021-05-17 15:03:53	SnoopJ	legplant, can you say more about what you're plotting? A radar plot sounds strange for spatial data
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2021-05-17 15:06:45	legplant	sure - basically we have a bunch of shipping bins - some are filling up on weight, leaving a lot of their area unconsumed. others are full in area, but are too light. and some a perfectly balenced. I would like to show how basically some classes of bins tend to fill on area more than weight, and vica versa for other classs
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2021-05-17 15:08:57	legplant	where weight, height, length are normalized to 0 - 100% "full" - and I may want to add in more dimensions over time
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2021-05-17 15:16:37	jamea	hi all
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2021-05-17 15:18:44	ELFrederich	need some circular import help with a Click CLI.  Within my module I have a "cli" module which has __init__.py, main.py, and foo.py.  The __init__.py has "from .main import cli_main".  The main.py defines cli_main as a click.group().  It has "from .foo import foo_cmd".  And foo.py implements foo_cmd as a click.command().
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2021-05-17 15:19:28	ELFrederich	This has no circles... __init__.py imports main.py, which imports foo.py.  But now I want to add a cli helper utility which I need to import from foo.py.  So I can't put it in __init__.py
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2021-05-17 15:23:09	jamea	i get an error see: https://bpa.st/HDZA     i think my problem is the dates arguments on the link to be requested... http://mydomain.com:8080/jQdl/servletExtraInfoPedidoBD?xAccion=MconsultaPedidosEnFecha&xFechaInicial=09/05/2021&xFechaFinal=17/05/2021
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2021-05-17 15:24:42	amogorkon	phy1729, SnoopJ, i put the lagrange polynomial from earlier into a python function for single x, now i wonder how to make this efficiently work for a numpy array?
2021-05-17 15:24:49	amogorkon	https://bpa.st/GSRA
2021-05-17 15:24:57	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I sometimes like to put my CLI stuff in a dedicated package, most often `cli.py`
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2021-05-17 15:26:02	SnoopJ	amogorkon, an immediately-obvious speedup: `lo, hi = abs(bottom), abs(top)` to avoid recomputing that several times
2021-05-17 15:26:16	SnoopJ	assuming speed is what "efficiently" is concerned with
2021-05-17 15:26:21	amogorkon	yeah, i was thinking of putting that into a closure
2021-05-17 15:26:48	amogorkon	but more importantly, how to make the whole thing work on a numpy array?
2021-05-17 15:26:54	SnoopJ	it already can
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2021-05-17 15:27:05	amogorkon	hm..
2021-05-17 15:27:08	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, yeah... I'm using a cli module which has the main entry point (click.group) defined in my_package/cli/main.py and each subcommand in its own file.  So my_package/cli/foo.py.  Then main.py has from .foo import foo_cmd.  And then does cli_main.add_command(foo_cmd).  The question is what should go into cli/__init__.py and where should cli helpers/utilities go?
2021-05-17 15:27:44	amogorkon	SnoopJ, wha.. o.O
2021-05-17 15:28:00	amogorkon	damn, why didn't i just try it and assumed the worst
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2021-05-17 15:28:48	SnoopJ	I would focus on making it more legible than on "efficiency"
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2021-05-17 15:29:53	amogorkon	it's actually quite efficient
2021-05-17 15:30:07	amogorkon	16800000 data points in 500 ms
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2021-05-17 15:30:39	amogorkon	but somehow i get overflow problems now.. hm
2021-05-17 15:30:44	amogorkon	oh well, thanks!
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2021-05-17 15:30:51	SnoopJ	most of that is probably spent making the 3 copies of `x` necessitated
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2021-05-17 15:32:01	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I'm afraid I don't really have a good mental model of what you're asking because descriptions of the layout/contents are so indirect. Perhaps you could share the source on GitHub/repl.it/etc.?
2021-05-17 15:32:46	amogorkon	hmm.. <ipython-input-21-13bc47562f95>:4: RuntimeWarning: overflow encountered in int_scalars
2021-05-17 15:32:46	amogorkon	 <- how to debug that?
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2021-05-17 15:38:36	SnoopJ	amogorkon, if you set PYTHONWARNINGS=error, it'll promote that to an error and hopefully issue a complete traceback that is immediately helpful. Otherwise, see the docs for the `warnings` library
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2021-05-17 15:40:09	refusenick	x
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2021-05-17 15:41:01	amogorkon	checking warnings docs now
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2021-05-17 16:31:18	ganome	I just joined an online "Instructor Led" python class; that no NO videos at all.   Anyone know a good resource for some python3 tutorial videos?  maybe even tkinter tutorials?
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2021-05-17 16:32:09	ganome	Please PM me. as I have to leave to pick up my kids.   Didn't realize the time
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2021-05-17 16:32:57	SnoopJ	ganome, https://pyvideo.org/
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2021-05-17 16:36:39	AppXprt	any estimate on when we'll start to see the performance increase associated with https://developers.slashdot.org/story/21/05/17/0225252/microsoft-funds-a-team-with-guido-van-rossum-to-double-the-speed-of-python
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2021-05-17 16:37:36	_habnabit	AppXprt, considering the long, _long_ history of similarly ambitious projects not panning out.. i wouldn't hold my breath
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2021-05-17 16:39:08	AppXprt	Well, it looks like they're already working: https://github.com/faster-cpython/cpython
2021-05-17 16:39:18	AppXprt	(on code)
2021-05-17 16:39:38	_habnabit	AppXprt, should i cite all the other examples that were 'already working'? ;)
2021-05-17 16:39:46	_habnabit	AppXprt, some are in the slashdot thread you linked
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2021-05-17 16:40:19	AppXprt	Yea I've read about them, I was hoping this might be a little different since it has Python's creator and Microsoft involved and backing?
2021-05-17 16:40:49	 *	JamesB192 thinks they should not be working on sode yet.
2021-05-17 16:40:56	_habnabit	AppXprt, what about unladen swallow, a project also led by top python contributors and involved google's backing?
2021-05-17 16:41:27	AppXprt	top python contributors != python creator + Microsoft?
2021-05-17 16:41:54	_habnabit	AppXprt, you forgot '+ google'
2021-05-17 16:41:57	bjs	AppXprt: I mean Guido is just 1 person, and it's a big undertaking. It may happen, it might not eventually end up being successful
2021-05-17 16:41:59	AppXprt	lol
2021-05-17 16:42:06	AppXprt	Google is going downhill
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2021-05-17 16:42:29	_habnabit	AppXprt, anyway, gvr has long acknowledged that he isn't exactly the pinnacle of programmers
2021-05-17 16:42:45	_habnabit	AppXprt, i'm not expecting his name to mean anything
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2021-05-17 16:43:20	_habnabit	(unladen swallow was google circa 2010 anyway)
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2021-05-17 16:44:12	bjs	the same problems as then will exist now,  they're not technical ones (since e.g. pypy showed you can overcome those)
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2021-05-17 16:45:05	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, hey, had to step away but I put something in repl.it... https://replit.com/@ericfrederich/cliexample#my_package/cli/foo.py
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2021-05-17 16:45:26	_habnabit	pypy has wrung more performance out of python than anyone else by far
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2021-05-17 16:46:06	AppXprt	yea I remember using it
2021-05-17 16:46:20	AppXprt	I haven't had to do much with python in a few years, but I'm using Odoo now
2021-05-17 16:46:27	AppXprt	OpenERP
2021-05-17 16:46:37	bjs	AppXprt: "remember"?  it's still alive and being updated and maintained with many users today
2021-05-17 16:46:39	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, the idea is to separate the cli away from the functionality.  So there is functionality.py with no knowledge of CLI stuff.  The main cli entry point is in cli/main.py and each subcommand is in its own file.  So in foo.py I have something (EnumChoice) which would be useful to other commands as well.  So where should it go?
2021-05-17 16:46:52	bjs	AppXprt: and that's the hard part, long-term maintenance and motivation
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2021-05-17 16:47:16	AppXprt	yea it would help if open source was actually making money...
2021-05-17 16:47:25	SnoopJ	for some value of "help," anyway
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2021-05-17 16:47:53	 *	SnoopJ suspects this is a big contributor to the uniquness of the Python community
2021-05-17 16:49:05	AppXprt	ELFrederich, I did something like that in: https://github.com/AppXprt/Advanced-Altcoin-Autotrader
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2021-05-17 16:49:46	AppXprt	there is some garbage in there, but mainly look at AutoTrader-Console -Service -Orders and func.py
2021-05-17 16:49:53	AppXprt	That's old though, python 2.7 I think
2021-05-17 16:50:18	AppXprt	It has separation and multi-threading even
2021-05-17 16:50:20	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I'd probably make a cli/common.py (or util or whatever name works) and stick EnumChoice there
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2021-05-17 16:51:23	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, then from foo.py I'd do from my_package.cli.common import EnumChoice ... that isn't a circular import?
2021-05-17 16:51:28	AppXprt	IDK, the newer files might have been python 3
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2021-05-17 16:51:50	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, why would it be? EnumChoice doesn't depend on anything that needs importing except click.Choice and enum.EnumMeta
2021-05-17 16:51:55	ELFrederich	let me try... I thought since __init__ imports from main and man imports from foo then anything I put under cli would be circular
2021-05-17 16:52:12	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, because in __init__.py I have "from .main import cli_main"
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2021-05-17 16:52:52	AppXprt	Can anyone see what they think about this? https://github.com/AppXprt/Advanced-Altcoin-Autotrader/blob/master/AutoTrader-Service.py
2021-05-17 16:53:05	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I'm not really following your concern, here. What would be circular about `from .common import EnumChoice`?
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2021-05-17 16:55:40	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, I thought that from .common would imply importing the __init__.py
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2021-05-17 16:59:35	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I see what you mean, but there still isn't a circular dependency...
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2021-05-17 17:00:07	nedbat	AppXprt: fwiw, mark shannon is already making changes in CPython to improve the speed.  I have no idea how significant they are
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2021-05-17 17:02:16	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I think you're right about the import, FWIW, but since it's already been imported that should be a no-op as I understand it.
2021-05-17 17:02:18	AppXprt	Cool, I'll have to check it out soon
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2021-05-17 17:12:09	SnoopJ	Pyjion (JIT for CPython bytecode) has also been restarted and the results so far seem promising
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2021-05-17 17:30:56	_habnabit	AppXprt, that's a lot of commented out code you've got there
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2021-05-17 17:33:09	amogorkon	SnoopJ, numpy has its own exceptions, apparently. np.seterr(all="raise") this works :)
2021-05-17 17:33:21	nedbat	AppXprt: you know you don't need parens around the condition in an if statement?
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2021-05-17 17:37:29	mike18	hi whats the right way to install depenendies for a python app? i currently have a requirements.txt (which i run in my docker) file - is that the right way?
2021-05-17 17:38:20	_habnabit	mike18, requirements.txt is just a file. the thing you use for the installation is pip
2021-05-17 17:38:32	SnoopJ	amogorkon, it raises warnings, yes
2021-05-17 17:38:40	mike18	_habnabit: but is that the right way?
2021-05-17 17:38:48	_habnabit	mike18, sure
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2021-05-17 17:40:46	_habnabit	mike18, here's how i've done it before https://github.com/pound-python/infobob/blob/master/Dockerfile
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2021-05-17 17:42:01	bonhoeffer	hey, curious what folks use for test driven development and python?
2021-05-17 17:43:35	mike18	_habnabit: what about using FROM python:3.9.5 instead?
2021-05-17 17:43:35	SnoopJ	bonhoeffer, pytest works well for testing in general
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2021-05-17 17:43:48	bonhoeffer	SnoopJ, thanks
2021-05-17 17:44:02	SnoopJ	bonhoeffer, https://nedbatchelder.com/text/test3.html
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2021-05-17 17:44:42	_habnabit	mike18, what about it? do you need python 3.9? i always use pypy
2021-05-17 17:45:00	mike18	why pypy?
2021-05-17 17:45:21	mike18	i mean i decided to use the latest python....
2021-05-17 17:45:39	amogorkon	SnoopJ, i had to dig deeper on warnings because when i used the warnings module, interacting with a numpy array basically froze the kernel
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2021-05-17 17:46:20	amogorkon	so, np.seterr really is the only viable way for this
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2021-05-17 17:47:58	SnoopJ	amogorkon, would be curious to see the code that freezes, that sounds very strange
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2021-05-17 17:48:23	_habnabit	mike18, pypy's great! they have a lot of great ideas and it's way faster
2021-05-17 17:48:28	_habnabit	mike18, no reason not to default to it imo
2021-05-17 17:48:42	amogorkon	SnoopJ, one sec
2021-05-17 17:48:43	SnoopJ	(unless you want the latest release, which it tends to trail)
2021-05-17 17:48:46	mike18	_habnabit: what about the setup.py file?
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2021-05-17 17:48:54	mike18	how did you create it?
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2021-05-17 17:49:38	IHasFinger	hi guys, I was wondering if they is a python method which I can use the change all the unix timestamp in data_feed_list to utc datetime YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS before i then create the dataFrame in line 21
2021-05-17 17:50:15	SnoopJ	line?
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2021-05-17 17:57:41	amogorkon	SnoopJ, https://bpa.st/GBZQ but it already hangs on a slice of len 1, so it has nothing to do with the actual data
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2021-05-17 17:59:23	SnoopJ	give me a second to make this runnable
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2021-05-17 18:00:35	ELFrederich	I have a poetry project.  Any examples/guides on how to create a Docker image to run the application in?
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2021-05-17 18:00:45	SnoopJ	amogorkon, doesn't seem to hang for me if I replace that hdf5 business with `dset = np.random.random(size=(256, 256, 3))`
2021-05-17 18:00:59	SnoopJ	(numpy 1.20.2)
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2021-05-17 18:01:20	amogorkon	1.19.2 for me, hmm
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2021-05-17 18:01:36	amogorkon	i'll try with your array
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2021-05-17 18:03:17	amogorkon	it hangs for me on your dset, too :/
2021-05-17 18:03:29	amogorkon	very strange
2021-05-17 18:03:44	SnoopJ	not necessarily, 1.20 changed some stuff wrt warnings
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2021-05-17 18:03:53	amogorkon	okay, might explain it
2021-05-17 18:04:07	IHasFinger	SnoopJ, lol sorry here is the link https://bpa.st/P2FA
2021-05-17 18:04:08	SnoopJ	it might, trying with 1.19.2 now
2021-05-17 18:04:33	yeticheese	wondering if anyone has significant experience with "orjson" and how it's performance compares to "ujson" in a real production environment.  They claim a bunch of benchmarks show that it's approx 2x faster than ujson, but benchmarks can be lies at times
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2021-05-17 18:06:12	SnoopJ	amogorkon, nope
2021-05-17 18:06:30	amogorkon	SnoopJ, can you try in a jupyter lab?
2021-05-17 18:06:44	SnoopJ	I can try in IPython, which should be ~ the same thing
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2021-05-17 18:07:10	amogorkon	it's the only remaining difference i could think of
2021-05-17 18:07:14	SnoopJ	seems fine
2021-05-17 18:07:21	amogorkon	:|
2021-05-17 18:07:33	amogorkon	strange? ^^
2021-05-17 18:07:49	SnoopJ	strange indeed
2021-05-17 18:07:58	deltab	IHasFinger: 12 columns in the data, 6 names?
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2021-05-17 18:10:55	IHasFinger	i dont care about the others
2021-05-17 18:11:11	IHasFinger	only the first 6
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2021-05-17 18:15:51	_habnabit	mike18, setup.py has been superseded. the new thing is setup.cfg and there's docs for it
2021-05-17 18:16:06	mike18	meaning not supported by python itself?
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2021-05-17 18:16:45	mike18	what is that cfg thing?
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2021-05-17 18:17:03	_habnabit	mike18, 'superseded' means "there's something better now"
2021-05-17 18:17:09	mike18	oh nice
2021-05-17 18:17:14	mike18	love better things
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2021-05-17 18:17:17	_habnabit	mike18, https://setuptools.readthedocs.io/en/latest/userguide/declarative_config.html
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2021-05-17 18:17:35	IHasFinger	Hello everyone, I was wondering if they is a python method which I can use the change all the unix timestamp in data_feed_list to utc datetime YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS before i then create the dataFrame in line 21 https://bpa.st/P2FA
2021-05-17 18:17:48	mike18	_habnabit: will i need to type that conf myself?
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2021-05-17 18:17:56	SnoopJ	https://setuptools.readthedocs.io/en/latest/userguide/declarative_config.html
2021-05-17 18:18:05	IHasFinger	is it a case that i have to do a for loop?
2021-05-17 18:18:06	_habnabit	mike18, you can copy-paste it
2021-05-17 18:18:12	bxsx	from the Python docs: class AustralianPhilosopher(Philosopher, default_name="Bruce") -- how to pass arguments to class definitions similar to `default_name`?
2021-05-17 18:18:14	mike18	from where?
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2021-05-17 18:18:31	_habnabit	mike18, from.. the page i linked?
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2021-05-17 18:19:15	SnoopJ	bxsx, pass from where? Are you dynamically creating classes?
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2021-05-17 18:19:51	bxsx	SnoopJ: i'm trying to find information what is it actually, i bet something related to metaclass?
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2021-05-17 18:20:02	_habnabit	bxsx, yes, it's a new metaclass "feature"
2021-05-17 18:20:22	_habnabit	bxsx, i've never seen anyone use it except for the `metaclass=` bit
2021-05-17 18:21:01	bxsx	_habnabit: by any chance do you remember PEP that introduced it?
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2021-05-17 18:21:21	_habnabit	bxsx, whatever added __prepare__
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2021-05-17 18:22:56	bxsx	_habnabit: 3115, perfect. thanks for the help.
2021-05-17 18:23:49	amogorkon	SnoopJ, it seems my overflow error was due to fact that i was working with an array of int32 and it was expecting float :p
2021-05-17 18:24:00	amogorkon	oh well.
2021-05-17 18:24:17	amogorkon	doesn't explain the problems with warnings, but fixes my problem
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2021-05-17 18:24:27	deltab	IHasFinger: anyway, datetime.datetime.utcfromtimestamp(t)
2021-05-17 18:25:00	deltab	IHasFinger: or datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(t)
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2021-05-17 18:25:19	deltab	and you can use .replace(tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc) to tell it the timezone
2021-05-17 18:25:21	IHasFinger	https://bpa.st/FLBA deltab deltab am guessing the only option is to loop it?
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2021-05-17 18:25:53	IHasFinger	i was checking if they is a way to do it without looping, maybe pandas had a method or something for it
2021-05-17 18:26:14	deltab	probably
2021-05-17 18:26:34	IHasFinger	but seems like i need to loop data_feed_list change the unix timestamp and then append it to a new list
2021-05-17 18:27:23	SnoopJ	amogorkon, yea the hanging behavior is the part I find curious, but maybe it's doing some expensive computation on your real data
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2021-05-17 18:27:35	SnoopJ	I can't imagine why just changing warnings behavior would change any of that though
2021-05-17 18:27:39	deltab	seems it also has a DatetimeArray
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2021-05-17 18:28:44	deltab	oh, experimental
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2021-05-17 18:31:12	amogorkon	okay, now it gets plain weird
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2021-05-17 18:31:44	amogorkon	after i normalized my data i tried to plot an fft over them
2021-05-17 18:31:55	amogorkon	semilogy(np.fft.fft(test))
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2021-05-17 18:32:05	amogorkon	gives me a OverflowError: Exceeded cell block limit (set 'agg.path.chunksize' rcparam)
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2021-05-17 18:32:28	amogorkon	which doesn't occur on an fft of the original data
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2021-05-17 18:33:15	deltab	IHasFinger: dataFrame['datetime'] = [datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(t/1000) for t in dataFrame['datetime']]
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2021-05-17 18:54:15	IHasFinger	deltab, thank you
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2021-05-17 18:54:42	IHasFinger	anyone use backtrader library before and encounter this error to_pydatetime
2021-05-17 18:54:47	IHasFinger	AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'to_pydatetime'
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2021-05-17 18:55:46	deltab	IHasFinger: how are you calling it?
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2021-05-17 18:59:05	johnjay	question. what's the most convenient way to use python on the command line to process stdin and/or options? getopt? sys.argv?
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2021-05-17 18:59:13	IHasFinger	deltab, https://bpa.st/4JVQ error happens when i called cerebro.run()
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2021-05-17 18:59:33	johnjay	for example say i have a string "12.34" in bash and i want to round it without using printf, how would I pipe that into python and then perform int() on it?
2021-05-17 19:00:33	deltab	IHasFinger: how does it fail?
2021-05-17 19:01:22	deltab	johnjay: you could pass it in as stdin, as an argument, or in an environment variable
2021-05-17 19:01:22	nedbat	johnjay: there are lots of ways of getting command-line arguments, starting with sys.argv
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2021-05-17 19:02:31	SnoopJ	note: int() on that string is a ValueError, because that string isn't an integer literal
2021-05-17 19:03:02	johnjay	google is telling me i need to call read on sys.stdin?
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2021-05-17 19:03:08	deltab	sys.stdin.read(), sys.argv[1], or os.environ(['NUMBER']
2021-05-17 19:03:18	IHasFinger	deltab, this is the error https://bpa.st/72NA and line 268 it is referencing to is this https://github.com/mementum/backtrader/blob/master/backtrader/feeds/pandafeed.py#L268
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2021-05-17 19:03:32	johnjay	ok thanks i'll have a look at os and sys then
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2021-05-17 19:04:53	SnoopJ	you can read from stdin, although I agree with the sys.argv suggestion: I'd much rather pass that string as an argument than send it on stdin
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2021-05-17 19:07:10	IHasFinger	deltab, https://github.com/mementum/backtrader/blob/master/backtrader/feeds/pandafeed.py#L107 I am not very advance in python yet still a newbie but https://bpa.st/4JVQ#1L8 the datetime should get picked up right? have a feeling it not
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2021-05-17 19:08:58	_habnabit	johnjay, click is the best say i've seen. you write your functions like normal and it calls them from command line options: https://click.palletsprojects.com/
2021-05-17 19:09:14	SnoopJ	click +1
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2021-05-17 19:13:44	bxsx	since when it's possible to declare funcs with only keyworded args? i mean def f(a, *, b)
2021-05-17 19:13:59	_habnabit	bxsx, 3.0, i think
2021-05-17 19:13:59	bxsx	nevermind
2021-05-17 19:14:18	SnoopJ	bxsx, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3102/
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2021-05-17 19:14:34	bxsx	yeah yeah, found it, thanks
2021-05-17 19:15:35	deltab	IHasFinger: df['timestamp'] = [datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(t/1000).replace(tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc) for t in df['datetime']]
2021-05-17 19:15:44	deltab	er
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2021-05-17 19:16:02	deltab	IHasFinger: dataFrame['datetime'] = [datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(t/1000).replace(tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc) for t in dataFrame['datetime']]
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2021-05-17 19:23:11	IHasFinger	deltab, i think it doesnt like the column name has int according to this https://bpa.st/QAWQ line 3-6
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2021-05-17 19:29:12	IHasFinger	am off everyone good night
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2021-05-17 20:25:25	johnjay	_habnabit: i'm reading the webpage. what does "lazily composable" mean?
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2021-05-17 20:26:26	_habnabit	johnjay, you can compose multiple click applications together into one without them all needing to know about it
2021-05-17 20:26:35	SnoopJ	johnjay, "lazy" refers to something that doesn't happen right away (the work is deferred until later), and composable means you can put things together
2021-05-17 20:26:59	johnjay	i know what the definitions of the terms are. i mean in context.
2021-05-17 20:27:09	SnoopJ	it means both of those properties in-context
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2021-05-17 21:33:25	sydbarret	https://bpa.st/6EZA  This ajax call shows 500 internal error
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2021-05-17 21:35:32	deltab	si the url right?
2021-05-17 21:35:53	deltab	check the server log
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2021-05-17 21:39:13	nedbat	sydbarret: did you write the server code?
2021-05-17 21:39:53	sydbarret	yes
2021-05-17 21:40:07	sydbarret	is the ajax syntax correct?
2021-05-17 21:40:22	sydbarret	is the href correct of the li tag?
2021-05-17 21:40:32	FunkyBob	a 500 response means the server had an un-recoverable error
2021-05-17 21:40:41	SnoopJ	HTTP error 500 indicates that something went wrong inside the server, and it told the client about it.
2021-05-17 21:40:43	FunkyBob	so it has nought to do with your JS
2021-05-17 21:41:06	FunkyBob	your fetch just triggered it.
2021-05-17 21:41:29	FunkyBob	(however, a <div> inside an <a> is invalid HTML)
2021-05-17 21:41:31	sydbarret	this is my server code
2021-05-17 21:41:33	sydbarret	https://bpa.st/7OUQ
2021-05-17 21:41:57	Ouranos	nice catch
2021-05-17 21:41:58	FunkyBob	so: did you check your error logs, as deltab suggested?
2021-05-17 21:42:29	sydbarret	where do i check it?
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2021-05-17 21:42:37	sydbarret	in the chrome console?
2021-05-17 21:42:40	FunkyBob	that's entirely dependent on how you configured it
2021-05-17 21:42:41	FunkyBob	no
2021-05-17 21:42:43	FunkyBob	SERVER logs
2021-05-17 21:42:45	FunkyBob	on your server
2021-05-17 21:42:54	FunkyBob	since it's your SERVER that raised the error
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2021-05-17 21:43:14	sydbarret	oh i think some sql is wrong
2021-05-17 21:43:17	sydbarret	hold on
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2021-05-17 21:44:34	sydbarret	im getting this psycopg2.errors.InvalidTextRepresentation: invalid input syntax for integer: "history"   LINE 1: SELECT name FROM customers WHERE id='history
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2021-05-17 21:44:45	SnoopJ	looks like you're right about your SQL
2021-05-17 21:44:53	sydbarret	it should be id=2018 in the sql
2021-05-17 21:45:01	sydbarret	im trying to send the customer_id
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2021-05-17 21:45:12	sydbarret	dont know where it got that 'history' string
2021-05-17 21:46:27	sydbarret	seems its taking it from the route, the last string
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2021-05-17 23:11:21	bonhoeffer	if I have [{'a':1,'b':23},{'a':3,'b':288}] and I want to find the dict where 'a' is 1
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2021-05-17 23:13:38	phy1729	What if there are two (or more) or none?
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2021-05-17 23:15:44	yitz	[x for x in dicts if x.get('a') == 1]
2021-05-17 23:16:57	SnoopJ	or `next(x for x in ..., DEFAULT_VALUE)` if you only care about the first such dict
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2021-05-17 23:32:23	bonhoeffer	yitz, SnoopJ wow, both work -- thanks
2021-05-17 23:32:42	SnoopJ	bonhoeffer, do they make sense?
2021-05-17 23:33:19	yitz	I feel weird about `next()` but probably would have cleaner cod if I used it more
2021-05-17 23:33:35	sartan	I prefer next(), because i don't have to try to split it later on what could be an indexerror waiting to happen
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2021-05-17 23:33:59	sartan	if [<your comp>] finds nothing, and you want the first (and only) result, you'll have to be defensive before you attempt to split it to get the first (singular) value
2021-05-17 23:34:03	SnoopJ	I used to feel awkward about it before I got into the habit of using a sentinel value to represent the lack of a value
2021-05-17 23:34:30	sartan	I'll do stuff like x = iter(next(<some_generator>), None)
2021-05-17 23:34:42	SnoopJ	oh my
2021-05-17 23:34:47	sartan	or something the other way around.
2021-05-17 23:37:42	sartan	SnoopJ: yeah for that purpose there will be a custom object like MISSING
2021-05-17 23:37:50	sartan	to differentiate between None, and not there
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2021-05-17 23:38:17	sartan	more often than not, None is enough
2021-05-17 23:38:27	SnoopJ	it usually is in my experience, yea
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2021-05-17 23:39:12	SnoopJ	it's also not a bad use for the walrus operator, as I think about it: `if result := next(iterable, None):`
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2021-05-17 23:40:23	SnoopJ	or whatever falsey sentinel as needed for a task
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2021-05-17 23:41:23	sartan	oh that looks nice
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2021-05-17 23:41:30	sartan	python3 jealousy increases
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2021-05-17 23:42:42	SnoopJ	I'm still very unsure how I feel about the operator, but that's certainly less unpleasant than catching StopIteration
2021-05-17 23:43:08	sartan	i'm always doing a lot of regex matching, and there's always the boilerplatey kludge that goes with it
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2021-05-17 23:43:47	SnoopJ	`re` being a headlining motivation in the operator's PEP is part of my uncertainty about it: the misbehavior of that API seems like a terrible motivator
2021-05-17 23:44:37	SnoopJ	but I'm warming to it, will have to think about writing one next time I use next() that way
2021-05-17 23:45:03	sartan	can result be accessed outside of walrus-zoo if the predicate was true
2021-05-17 23:45:59	sartan	i would think not.. and such a refactor if you required result outside would be 'else: result = None' (or something) and you're going back to the same thing again
2021-05-17 23:46:01	SnoopJ	sartan, the assignment always occurs
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2021-05-17 23:46:48	SnoopJ	https://bpaste.net/LXFA
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2021-05-17 23:47:25	sartan	im not clever enough to know what i'm looking at
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2021-05-17 23:48:28	SnoopJ	the LOAD_NAME/DUP_TOP sets up the stack so that two references to the value attached to the name `foo` at on top of the stack. One of them is STORE_NAME'd into `result`, the other one is tested for its truth value by POP_JUMP_IF_FALSE
2021-05-17 23:48:40	SnoopJ	i.e. it does the assignment to the name, *then* tests
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2021-05-17 23:48:56	pr0t	Why in python3 when passing a file descriptor obtained from os.open (with O_RDONLY set) to fcntl.flock when working with an NFS mount fails?
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2021-05-17 23:49:44	matsaman	pr0t: things always fail with NFS involved
2021-05-17 23:49:51	pr0t	i.e. this fails python3 -c 'import fcntl; import os; fcntl.flock(os.open("lockfile", os.O_RDONLY | os.O_CREAT), fcntl.LOCK_EX | fcntl.LOCK_NB)'
2021-05-17 23:49:56	-->	shabius_ (~shabius@45.15.19.226) has joined #python
2021-05-17 23:50:23	pr0t	But something like this works just fine python3 -c 'import fcntl; import os; fcntl.flock(open("lockfile", "a"), fcntl.LOCK_EX | fcntl.LOCK_NB)'
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2021-05-17 23:51:29	pr0t	Even when the above example that fails if I change os.O_RDONLY to os.O_WRONLY it also works just fine, I have no idea why
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2021-05-17 23:52:30	pr0t	matsaman: I know it makes me want to cry please helps!
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2021-05-17 23:54:56	sartan	how do you maintain a lockfile in readonly mode?
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2021-05-17 23:56:19	SnoopJ	pr0t, how does your flock() fail?
2021-05-17 23:56:36	pr0t	Traceback (most recent call last):
2021-05-17 23:56:36	pr0t	  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
2021-05-17 23:56:36	pr0t	OSError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
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2021-05-17 23:56:43	sartan	doesn't fnctl.lockf work better than fnctl.flock now
2021-05-17 23:57:41	sartan	if you like-for-like replace flock with lockf, does your poc work?
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2021-05-17 23:58:04	pr0t	yup
2021-05-17 23:58:08	pr0t	But I am curious why
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2021-05-17 23:58:46	sartan	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22409780/flock-vs-lockf-on-linux there is a good explanation on the second post here
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2021-05-18 00:00:52	pr0t	Oh very nice explanation
2021-05-18 00:00:55	pr0t	Thanks for finding that
2021-05-18 00:01:45	SnoopJ	it does look like it comes with a pretty big asterisk of referring to quite an old kernel version
2021-05-18 00:01:55	SnoopJ	for the part that is Linux specific, that is
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2021-05-18 00:02:22	sartan	I can only cast a magic spell or two a day, but I'm not sure the reagents they are necessarily made of
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2021-05-18 00:03:10	SnoopJ	amusingly, there is a big in Steam for Linux about pretty much exactly this question: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/6392
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2021-05-18 00:03:13	SnoopJ	bug*
2021-05-18 00:03:35	sartan	i just found one for ansible: https://github.com/ansible/awx/pull/3928/commits/f48713f4ae23cc470be2a2d8ce1f9bad35e54bfe
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2021-05-18 00:04:19	pr0t	Yeah I saw that one related to Ansible Tower, I was hoping to find a bug actually submitted for pythons
2021-05-18 00:04:23	sartan	so it did have something to do with read only fds being used
2021-05-18 00:04:39	sartan	the bug commenter implied they need to bne open in readwrite
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2021-05-18 00:05:15	sartan	I don't know what happened there I think I accidently a word or two
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2021-05-18 00:07:45	SnoopJ	I don't see anything on bugs.python.org after plugging in a few searches for those flags
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2021-05-18 00:13:05	sartan	pr0t: to be honest i'm not sure the best fix to go with: whether to change the lockfile into readwrite mode, or to switch to lockf
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2021-05-18 00:13:58	pr0t	Yeah good question right
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2021-05-18 00:17:25	sartan	i'd probably go with the fix that ansible tower implemented, it seems fairly well deployed and fixes a couple bugs people hit (flock)
2021-05-18 00:17:28	sartan	(flock->lockf)
2021-05-18 00:18:03	sartan	(blush) because the underlying magical reasons are too complex for me to grok completely
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2021-05-18 00:26:37	noyb	pr0t: What is the implementation of the NFS server?  Linux, Solaris, Windowz?  Maybe they have some bug advice on their site? dunno...
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2021-05-18 00:27:18	pr0t	Noyb: Linux but I haven't seen anything
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2021-05-18 00:35:17	matsaman	pr0t: if you use sshfs instead of nfs, you won't have nfs troubles ever again
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2021-05-18 00:37:23	maum	hello
2021-05-18 00:38:06	matsaman	hi maum
2021-05-18 00:38:22	maum	hello matsaman
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2021-05-18 00:41:07	noyb	matsaman: I agree.  pr0t will have sshfs issues.  Notably, all of the same kinds of issues (resource locking, etc) remain, no matter what the server is called.
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2021-05-18 00:48:00	johnjay	where do i check for pypi installed packages?
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2021-05-18 00:48:14	johnjay	this is debian i'm using atm
2021-05-18 00:49:14	mefistofeles	johnjay: did you install those with sudo privileges?
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2021-05-18 00:50:14	mefistofeles	if that's the case then I think somewhere in /usr/local/lib/pythonX.X
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2021-05-18 00:53:11	johnjay	i don't think so.
2021-05-18 00:53:21	johnjay	i see this click package installed but i thought i had to sudo it
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2021-05-18 00:54:03	johnjay	hrm it is in there actually
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2021-05-18 00:54:09	johnjay	that's odd
2021-05-18 00:54:28	johnjay	the command i ran was 'pip install click'
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2021-05-18 00:54:59	SnoopJ	johnjay, you can do `pip show pkgname` to see some information about a package installed with pip, including its location.
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2021-05-18 00:55:08	mihael	Is there a way I can write to a file without actually saving it? I just want to run a difflib against an existing file and only save it if there is a difference
2021-05-18 00:55:24	johnjay	ah ok. yes that is the location as reported by that command. ok then
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2021-05-18 00:56:45	SnoopJ	johnjay, you shouldn't really need to `sudo pip` unless the package is trying to write to system directories for some reason (click won't do this). pip/python are clever enough to know how to stash stuff in your home directory
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2021-05-18 00:58:25	johnjay	it's just odd it's writing to /usr/local since normally you'd need sudo for that i thought
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2021-05-18 01:01:05	sartan	mihael: kind of but not really. you can mess with f.seek() and f.read() before you flush it, but what do you expect to do with files of differeing size?  Probably best to just read the file and not write to it for many reasons least of all are unexpected behavior during crashes
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2021-05-18 01:02:11	sartan	are these very large files? what are your concerns with just storing the diff in a variable? python will generate one in memory anyway
2021-05-18 01:02:46	sartan	it sounds to me like you're working on implementing future bugs :P
2021-05-18 01:03:20	SnoopJ	johnjay, it was probably installed with elevated privileges
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2021-05-18 01:17:55	Ouranos	Are there any other python chats that I try as well?
2021-05-18 01:19:35	sartan	I'm hurt that you want to leave us, but there's supposedly one on discord?
2021-05-18 01:19:49	Ouranos	I plan to stay here as well!  I'm just looking for a sideshow
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2021-05-18 01:20:21	Ouranos	I'm doing free code camp and sololearn for python...  What do you suggest?
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2021-05-18 01:21:14	sartan	sorry I don't know anything about that stuff =/ https://discord.com/invite/python for that other one
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2021-05-18 01:26:09	Ouranos	thank you!
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2021-05-18 01:30:26	ish	When I pip install from the wheel version of my package, requirements.txt doesn't appear to be considered.  If installed from the .tar.gz, the requirements.txt is respected, as expected. Is there an extra step required when building the package?
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2021-05-18 01:32:03	sartan	you can add the wheel filename to requirements.txt with -f <whl> to bundle them all at once?
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2021-05-18 01:35:16	sartan	Oh I misread that completely
2021-05-18 01:35:31	ish	I'm not sure I follow...  I'm doing "python3 -m build" to prep my package before uploading to pypi..  When users 'pip install mypackage', the requirements.txt is not respected.
2021-05-18 01:36:45	BrenBarn	I don't think wheels/pypi are supposed to work that way
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2021-05-18 01:36:58	BrenBarn	you need to list the package dependencies in the setup.py
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2021-05-18 01:37:10	BrenBarn	(or maybe pyproject.toml these days can work too)
2021-05-18 01:39:29	ish	Ah.. I think this was the first version I uploaded the wheel version, looks much by accident.  Just uploading the .tar.gz would probably solve the issue for my users.
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2021-05-18 01:41:47	Samian	isn't there a command that displays python book recommendations?
2021-05-18 01:41:49	Samian	books!
2021-05-18 01:41:52	Samian	!books
2021-05-18 01:42:16	sartan	I didn't think there was a bot in here at all
2021-05-18 01:43:19	<--	PiRATA (~PiRATA@bug.pirata.dev) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-18 01:44:08	BrenBarn	how are your users "installing from the .tar.gz"?
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2021-05-18 01:48:05	johnjay	i did that earlier today
2021-05-18 01:48:17	johnjay	it literally packaged an x86_64 elf binary but in .tar.gz
2021-05-18 01:48:24	johnjay	so you unpack it and run it.
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2021-05-18 01:50:19	tsujp	I have a list comprehension `[p.age for p in PEOPLE]` how can I filter this only if their age is above some number?
2021-05-18 01:50:36	sartan	[p.age for p in PEOPLE if p.age > 30]
2021-05-18 01:50:55	tsujp	Ohh at the end, thanks
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2021-05-18 01:54:49	tsujp	And then if I wanted to have a comprehension that returns the people objects themselves it'd be this right sartan? `[p for p in PEOPLE if p.age > 30]` ?
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2021-05-18 01:55:18	deniska	yes
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2021-05-18 01:55:48	tsujp	neat
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2021-05-18 01:57:32	adder`	is slicing a list O(n) operation?
2021-05-18 01:58:11	t2mkn	is it possible in mysql connector for cursor(dictionary=True) to return string type DATE instead of datetime object ?
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2021-05-18 02:00:41	Wulf	adder`: usually yes
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2021-05-18 02:02:08	adder`	Wulf, is there a gotcha?
2021-05-18 02:02:43	Wulf	adder`: what do you mean?
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2021-05-18 02:03:31	adder`	Wulf, you said "usually"
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2021-05-18 02:04:09	Wulf	adder`: you can't depend on it. Perhaps some python implementations got some optimization to make it O(1) in some situations.
2021-05-18 02:04:22	deniska	slicing a list is O(n) where n ~ amount of elements you slice
2021-05-18 02:04:51	adder`	i see, ok. thanks Wulf, deniska
2021-05-18 02:04:54	sartan	or, if a python list was a linked list in memory, it could return pointers from start,end index
2021-05-18 02:04:55	deniska	Wulf: O(1) is still technically O(n)
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2021-05-18 02:05:04	leduyquang753	No.
2021-05-18 02:05:05	Wulf	deniska: true
2021-05-18 02:05:08	Wulf	leduyquang753: yes, it is.
2021-05-18 02:05:21	deniska	python list won't be a linked list because then it can't provide many performance guarantees
2021-05-18 02:05:32	leduyquang753	O(1) is that it always takes the same time regardless of input.
2021-05-18 02:05:41	Wulf	leduyquang753: wrong
2021-05-18 02:06:25	leduyquang753	Point out the spot that is wrong.
2021-05-18 02:07:05	deniska	leduyquang753: mathy-ish definition of O(f) is that a thing doesn't grow faster than f, and a constant doesn't grow faster than n
2021-05-18 02:07:09	Wulf	leduyquang753: a function is in the set O(1) if the complexity is limited by a constant and doesn't depend on the input size.
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2021-05-18 02:07:57	Wulf	leduyquang753: But it doesn't mean it's always the same time. It can still vary a lot, as long as it's below the constant.
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2021-05-18 02:07:59	deniska	of course typically you'd discuss a more useful bound
2021-05-18 02:08:07	deniska	a lower one :)
2021-05-18 02:08:25	kevr	is there a way to hook some code into Alembic's env.py to be run _only_ when `alembic` is run? I've got some tests that use the env.py path eventually, and it contains fileConfig and migration processes at the module level.
2021-05-18 02:09:25	kevr	This isn't good for testing, because it modifies the logging module for Alembic.
2021-05-18 02:09:31	kevr	completely silencing test logs.
2021-05-18 02:09:36	leduyquang753	Wulf Then how about O(n)?
2021-05-18 02:09:37	deniska	kevr: perhaps split the part which is common in another module?
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2021-05-18 02:10:00	leduyquang753	If you say O(n) is the same O(1) then there has to be a global limit to it as n grows as well.
2021-05-18 02:10:07	deniska	kevr: and then both env.py and the tests can import it
2021-05-18 02:10:16	Wulf	leduyquang753: O(1) is a true subset of O(n).
2021-05-18 02:10:17	kevr	deniska: as far as i know, env.py is automatically used when you run `alembic`, so i need some way to bootstrap it properly when i actually run `alembic` as opposed to importing the module somewhere.
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2021-05-18 02:10:37	leduyquang753	OK it seems like we are talking about different things here.
2021-05-18 02:10:38	kevr	ah, i see what you're saying.
2021-05-18 02:10:41	deniska	kevr: no, I mean, add something like `import env_common` in env.py
2021-05-18 02:10:48	kevr	yeah, gotcha
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2021-05-18 02:11:58	KirkMcDonald	The real gotcha question is: What is the complexity of a dict lookup?
2021-05-18 02:12:03	Wulf	leduyquang753: Biggest problem in my opinion is notation. People often write nonsense like f = O(n). It must be f ∈ O(n).
2021-05-18 02:12:16	kevr	KirkMcDonald: O(1) amortized, most likely.
2021-05-18 02:12:22	kevr	look into what data structure python uses for dict
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2021-05-18 02:12:42	adder`	Wulf, in CLRS they write `=` but they do point out that it means the function is in the set
2021-05-18 02:12:45	kevr	in the worst case, it's probably O(logn)
2021-05-18 02:12:50	KirkMcDonald	I believe the real true answer is O(n).
2021-05-18 02:12:51	kevr	best case, O(1)
2021-05-18 02:12:57	kevr	KirkMcDonald: you're wrong.
2021-05-18 02:13:03	adder`	btw here's a mathy definition of O(f): 0 ≤ f(n) ≤ c g(n)
2021-05-18 02:13:11	Wulf	And usually people mean Θ instead of O.
2021-05-18 02:13:14	KirkMcDonald	kevr: It's a hash table that resolves collisions with (something very similar to) a linear probe.
2021-05-18 02:13:26	kevr	so it's an open addressed hashtable?
2021-05-18 02:13:31	Wulf	adder`: then they should just write it.
2021-05-18 02:13:37	kevr	if so, it's O(1) amortized
2021-05-18 02:13:54	deniska	"dicts go brrr"
2021-05-18 02:13:54	kevr	and that gets worse the less capacity you give the hashtable
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2021-05-18 02:14:50	kevr	KirkMcDonald: the more extra room that the hashtable has to mod against, the less likely a collision occurs.
2021-05-18 02:15:06	kevr	in general, load factors of 1.5~2 are used for openly addressed tables
2021-05-18 02:15:57	KirkMcDonald	Those values seem like the reciprocal of the load factor.
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2021-05-18 02:16:15	kevr	you're overcomplicating the issue
2021-05-18 02:16:19	KirkMcDonald	If memory serves, the dict type aims for a load factor of 0.75.
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2021-05-18 02:16:44	leduyquang753	Just reread a bit about big O and yep it indeed is that we are thinking about it in different ways here.
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2021-05-18 02:17:22	kevr	anyway, you don't need people here to answer that for you
2021-05-18 02:17:30	kevr	you can easily look up the data structures and operationg that python uses for a dict
2021-05-18 02:17:34	kevr	operations*
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2021-05-18 02:17:46	KirkMcDonald	I have read the source.
2021-05-18 02:17:56	kevr	then you have the answer.
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2021-05-18 02:19:56	kevr	anyway, you can think of the 0.75 load factor as it using 175% space for the structure in comparison with the 100% used for the actual values
2021-05-18 02:20:12	kevr	so it has an additional 75% of space
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2021-05-18 02:20:16	kevr	more than what it truly needs
2021-05-18 02:21:10	kevr	which is quite similar to some other languages. i typically see most implementations using a load factor around 1.75
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2021-05-18 02:21:24	Jimmy2027	hi, does someone know how I can save a pdf file in python? I converted a notebook to pdf with nbconvert.PDFExporter but I don't know how to save the resulting byteobject to a pdf file
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2021-05-18 02:21:56	Wulf	Jimmy2027: pathlib.Path("foo.pdf").write_bytes(pdf)
2021-05-18 02:22:10	Jimmy2027	Wulf: cool, so easy :)
2021-05-18 02:22:12	Jimmy2027	thanks!
2021-05-18 02:22:18	KirkMcDonald	Reviewing the source, the load factor appears to actually be 2/3.
2021-05-18 02:22:34	kevr	so 66%
2021-05-18 02:22:39	kevr	still not bad.
2021-05-18 02:22:57	KirkMcDonald	kevr: But, for all that this is so, it remains that the degenerate case is linear-time.
2021-05-18 02:23:01	kevr	you can calculate the thetas based on that
2021-05-18 02:23:05	kevr	if you really want specific bounds
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2021-05-18 02:23:25	kevr	KirkMcDonald: linear time? what?
2021-05-18 02:23:32	KirkMcDonald	kevr: O(n) lookups.
2021-05-18 02:23:32	kevr	how is that?
2021-05-18 02:23:37	kevr	please, explain
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2021-05-18 02:23:44	kevr	i don't see ANYTHING that tells me that it's O(n)
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2021-05-18 02:24:11	KirkMcDonald	I mean, the stupid case is if you define a __hash__ that returns a constant. But otherwise, if you manage to stuff in strings with hashes that all collide.
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2021-05-18 02:24:30	kevr	that scale is completely busted
2021-05-18 02:24:30	deniska	unless you drop `def __hash__(self): return 0 # will optimize later to earn a raise` in a hot class, you probably won't encounter the O(n) case "in the wild" :)
2021-05-18 02:24:39	KirkMcDonald	Though this was a more immediate issue before hash randomization was implemented.
2021-05-18 02:24:45	kevr	linear means that, in worst case, you need to touch every single element in the container
2021-05-18 02:24:49	kevr	that is not the case here.
2021-05-18 02:24:54	KirkMcDonald	But it was a real actual security problem.
2021-05-18 02:24:57	sartan	lol'd @ # raise comment
2021-05-18 02:24:59	kevr	at least, not asymptotically.
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2021-05-18 02:25:45	sartan	def __hash__(self): return str(self.__repr__)
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2021-05-18 02:26:11	kevr	of course it's going to depend on your h(x).
2021-05-18 02:26:13	KirkMcDonald	kevr: Are you familiar with this security issue that prompted the addition of hash randomization? It exploited this linear-time behavior for dict lookups.
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2021-05-18 02:26:40	kevr	if you have references
2021-05-18 02:26:43	kevr	post them
2021-05-18 02:26:56	KirkMcDonald	Basically, a lot of web applications take, like, GET parameters and stuff 'em in a dict.
2021-05-18 02:26:58	kevr	i typically don't listen to what people hear or what people think, i want some authoritative source on the matter.
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2021-05-18 02:27:12	sartan	that sounds unnecessarily hostile
2021-05-18 02:27:43	KirkMcDonald	So if you know enough about Python's hash function (which is notably non-random, as these things go), it was possible to craft keys which would collide with one other, which meant you could craft a malicious request.
2021-05-18 02:27:57	kevr	the hash function is totally up to the object
2021-05-18 02:28:01	KirkMcDonald	And slow the web server to a crawl.
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2021-05-18 02:28:09	KirkMcDonald	The str type's hash function, specifically.
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2021-05-18 02:28:39	sartan	just a few weeks ago i was actually very interested in how the internal has function behaved, but couldn't find much details on its actual implementation
2021-05-18 02:28:41	KirkMcDonald	The Python 2 str type, more specifically, since we're going a bit back in time, here.
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2021-05-18 02:29:26	kevr	i'd like to see an example
2021-05-18 02:29:33	kevr	one that we can reproduce
2021-05-18 02:29:36	kevr	_now_
2021-05-18 02:29:55	sartan	I had a use case where I wanted to understand if the internal python hash() function would return deterministic hashes for the same data inputs, but i couldn't find how hash is implemented, if you have a resource that describes how it's written I'd also be interested
2021-05-18 02:30:07	deniska	it's the issue from like 2.5 days? When was the hash randomization implemented?
2021-05-18 02:30:17	KirkMcDonald	Well, here's the big from the time: https://bugs.python.org/issue13703
2021-05-18 02:30:22	KirkMcDonald	bug*
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2021-05-18 02:31:11	kevr	yeah, so, that's a bug
2021-05-18 02:31:27	kevr	it's not what python settled on or anything. it was a bug that was unintended.
2021-05-18 02:31:31	KirkMcDonald	It was a security issue which prompted the addition of a feature.
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2021-05-18 02:31:51	kevr	i gotta be honest, if they needed a security issue to prompt them to create a good hash function
2021-05-18 02:31:58	kevr	that sounds pretty lazy
2021-05-18 02:32:01	kevr	i doubt that's the case
2021-05-18 02:32:07	deniska	they didn't change a hash function, they added randomization
2021-05-18 02:32:12	KirkMcDonald	If you really wanted, it is possible to disable hash randomization.
2021-05-18 02:32:14	kevr	ah.
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2021-05-18 02:32:37	KirkMcDonald	But there isn't really a good reason to do so, heh. *Maybe* in the context of deterministic tests.
2021-05-18 02:32:58	KirkMcDonald	But even then...
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2021-05-18 02:32:58	zitter	hi, what's best way to accomplish this command: $gunzip -c alldatabases.sql.gz | mysql -uroot -prootpw -h127.0.0.1 in Python? Using os module?
2021-05-18 02:33:28	KirkMcDonald	All the moreso now that the dict type preserves insertion order.
2021-05-18 02:33:31	kevr	KirkMcDonald: anyway, it's not linear. clearly these fools didn't cover what should have been covered, but it's been addressed.
2021-05-18 02:33:36	deniska	zitter: https://docs.python.org/3/library/gzip.html python can read gzip files without relying on 3rd party executables
2021-05-18 02:33:43	kevr	the "linearity" of it was just a biproduct.
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2021-05-18 02:35:27	kevr	that is, if it works out as they had intended, it was never linear. if you ran into this bug and abused it, sure, maybe you got linear results, but that is not a quality of the algorithm itself.
2021-05-18 02:35:37	KirkMcDonald	kevr: I guess I find it weird to call it amortized; it assumes the hash function is in fact a good, random hash function, in the context of something that's supposed to measure worst-case complexity.
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2021-05-18 02:35:42	kevr	it is something unintended.
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2021-05-18 02:36:16	kevr	KirkMcDonald: we're talking about the data structure, not the gross misuse of it
2021-05-18 02:36:16	deniska	zitter: I'd also consider going with one of the mysql db api drivers available for python instead of invoking `mysql` tool… but anyway, if you want to invoke other processes, look at subprocess module
2021-05-18 02:36:29	stealth_	this sure is interesting you can have `123.py` but you can't import it normally `from 123 import fun`
2021-05-18 02:36:54	KirkMcDonald	kevr: It's still pretty simple to manufacture collisions when using ints as keys.
2021-05-18 02:36:58	deniska	zitter: subprocess.run() covers 90% of what you typically need to invoke other executable
2021-05-18 02:37:14	zitter	deniska, thanks. I agree with you. To decompress I can use gzip module and MySQLdb to import file?
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2021-05-18 02:37:51	deniska	zitter: there're multiple modules to interact with mysql and I'm not sure which is recommended nowadays
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2021-05-18 02:37:58	pyeverything	do you know how I can modify this so it would work only when p is not None? verts = np.stack([p["pred_vertices_smpl"] for p in mocap_predictions])
2021-05-18 02:38:15	kevr	ass `if p is not None` at the end of your comprehension
2021-05-18 02:38:17	kevr	add*
2021-05-18 02:38:20	KirkMcDonald	pyeverything: What do you want to do when p is None?
2021-05-18 02:38:33	kevr	er, if p is not None.
2021-05-18 02:38:34	deniska	zitter: if dumping the file is the only ever sql you want to issue against the database, then going with invoking an executable doesn't sound like too terrible of an idea
2021-05-18 02:38:41	kevr	yeah.
2021-05-18 02:38:42	pyeverything	I only want this np.stack to work if p is not None
2021-05-18 02:38:46	pyeverything	KirkMcDonald:
2021-05-18 02:38:53	deniska	zitter: but if you also want to interact with the database in some other fashion, then use a driver, yes
2021-05-18 02:39:11	zitter	ok TY
2021-05-18 02:39:17	kevr	[p["pred_vertices_smpl"] for p in mocap_predictions if p is not None]
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2021-05-18 02:39:18	sartan	np.stack(p['pred_verticies_smpl'] if p and p.get('pred_verticies_smpl'))
2021-05-18 02:39:19	pyeverything	since I am getting this error otherwise TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not subscriptable
2021-05-18 02:39:21	KirkMcDonald	pyeverything: In other words, you want to ignore values for p which are None? Then what kevr said, just put `if p is not None` at the end of the comprehension.
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2021-05-18 02:39:48	sartan	just looking at __getitem__ there, and thinking ahead two examples are better than one in case you run into that one next.
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2021-05-18 02:40:50	pyeverything	that worked but led to another problem. not sure if they are related. will spend sometimes on my own. thanks
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2021-05-18 02:41:12	pyeverything	  local_cam = pred["pred_camera"].copy()  -->> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not subscriptable
2021-05-18 02:41:23	pyeverything	I didn't have this problem before basically
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2021-05-18 02:43:53	salitos	Hi, what module would you recommend for parsing a pdf that has tabular data. Pdfminer has unretrivable data and padfplumber misses the headers.
2021-05-18 02:44:05	sartan	pyeverything: pred is None
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2021-05-18 02:44:35	Wulf	salitos: I would try to find a generic pdf parser library and then write my own extractor.
2021-05-18 02:44:58	Wulf	salitos: for quick+dirty perhaps filter through qpdf (decrypt, decompress, etc.) and then use regex.
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2021-05-18 02:46:04	deniska	you can't really "parse PDFs" you can "extract data from a PDF some specific tool is making so you know the order of fields and stuff"
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2021-05-18 02:46:53	wyoung	deniska: Depends how the PDF was constructed.  If there a defined text blocks it would make it easier to parse.  You could also use OCR as well if it's binary.
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2021-05-18 02:47:37	wyoung	If the PDF was format a specific way you could indeed parse it.
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2021-05-18 02:47:45	salitos	I think the customization is a great idea Wulf, hadn't thought of that but I think this should provide flexibility esp. if pdfs are expected to be static.
2021-05-18 02:47:48	deniska	wyoung: well, hopefully a PDF you are parsing is not a scan of a word document printout with excel screenshots in it
2021-05-18 02:48:10	wyoung	deniska: hopefully not, you would need to use some OCR and maybe some ML to sort that out.
2021-05-18 02:48:56	salitos	deniska, the pdf is fully digital.
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2021-05-18 02:49:38	wyoung	salitos: As in it wasn't scanned and is not in a binary format?
2021-05-18 02:49:50	deniska	I looked into parsing PDFs to better adapt them to label printers we have, I quickly gave up and went with ImageMagick/pillow route, just resizing-cropping-dithering them in a specific way :)
2021-05-18 02:50:07	kevr	kinky
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2021-05-18 02:52:07	salitos	Wyoung im certain it wasn't scanned but i'm not sure of whether its  binary or ascii, let me try to look that up
2021-05-18 02:53:34	deniska	In the end I get a ZPL string with a single bitmap field in it which you can just send directly via printer port or tcp and it just prints
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2021-05-18 02:53:51	deniska	no need for drivers, headless pdf viewers and such
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2021-05-18 02:54:41	deniska	(alternative title: I wrote a printer driver in python)
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2021-05-18 02:56:48	deniska	salitos: I think pdfreader was one of the modules I tried which was semi-promising?
2021-05-18 02:57:25	deniska	it's not that modules are bad, it's just that they can't do a better job given a nature of the format
2021-05-18 02:57:29	salitos	on tabular data?
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2021-05-18 02:58:09	deniska	pdf has no concept of a table, it has words arranged on a page with some vertical and horizontal lines nearby
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2021-05-18 03:00:01	deniska	the best you can typically get is a flat list of words (sentences), then, given that you work with PDFs made by a specific tool which uses a specific template, you can find where in this list tabular data you want begin
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2021-05-18 03:00:42	deniska	and then you know that data is coming in a specific order, because that's how invoices from a company X look
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2021-05-18 03:01:02	yamz	deniska, so kinda like the Wulf route>
2021-05-18 03:01:32	deniska	invoices from a company Y are generated by a different tool, so you'll need a different parser
2021-05-18 03:01:50	yamz	also the pdf seems to have been created with iText which seems to genarate binary pdf formats
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2021-05-18 03:01:57	deniska	it's really like parsing html sites, except <p> with no attributes is the only allowed tag
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2021-05-18 03:06:25	yamz	thanks denisk, Wulf, creating a template to rearrange generic text seems to be the most robust option for wide applications, ill get to it
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2021-05-18 03:09:40	deniska	(opening a PDF file in inkscape also can be illuminating, I remember having to edit a PDF waybill in a pinch)
2021-05-18 03:10:09	deniska	adding a line and changing totals :)
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2021-05-18 03:15:26	astronavt	circular imports :(
2021-05-18 03:15:38	astronavt	is there a way around this, for type checking purposes?
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2021-05-18 03:16:36	kosh	there is no problem with circular imports just how the importing is done
2021-05-18 03:16:49	kosh	use import foo   and not from foo import bar
2021-05-18 03:17:05	astronavt	i thought the former would still break
2021-05-18 03:17:10	astronavt	i can try it
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2021-05-18 03:17:32	KirkMcDonald	The usual place where circular imports break is when you need to resolve module-level names at import time.
2021-05-18 03:17:33	astronavt	here's the situation: in order to create my Application, i have to import FooHandler, but then each FooHandler instantiated by the Application will get a `.application` attribute which is the instance of Application.
2021-05-18 03:17:57	astronavt	(this is tornado, for the curious)
2021-05-18 03:18:29	KirkMcDonald	Deferring the resolution of module-level names until *after* import time (which is to say, until you're inside a function) mostly works around the problem.
2021-05-18 03:18:49	astronavt	ah, let me try that
2021-05-18 03:19:05	astronavt	well... the problem in this case is that i want to _annotate_ something
2021-05-18 03:19:09	KirkMcDonald	Which is one reason to import modules, and not things inside of modules.
2021-05-18 03:19:21	KirkMcDonald	(What kosh said, in other words.)
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2021-05-18 03:19:45	astronavt	i didn't realize that could work, i'll try it
2021-05-18 03:20:38	mihael	How do I properly read and write json? I tried retrieving a request that returns a json object and writing it to a file using json.loads, but it writes the json with single quote so reading them with json.loads is giving me an error "
2021-05-18 03:20:51	mihael	How do I properly read and write json? I tried retrieving a request that returns a json object and writing it to a file using json.loads, but it writes the json with single quote so reading them with json.loads is giving me an error "Expecting property name enclosed in double quotes"
2021-05-18 03:21:06	Wulf	mihael: json.dump(obj, fp)
2021-05-18 03:21:08	KirkMcDonald	mihael: If it is using single quotes, then it is not valid JSON.
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2021-05-18 03:23:20	astronavt	KirkMcDonald kosh that worked! i didn't realize it would, great. one annoyance taken care of.
2021-05-18 03:23:44	kosh	great
2021-05-18 03:23:55	pyeverything	thanks sartan
2021-05-18 03:24:18	sartan	I'm making gross assumptions on the file you're trying to read that isn't real j son, does with open(filename, 'r') as f: data_dict = ast.literal_eval(f.read())  work ?
2021-05-18 03:24:21	pyeverything	could you please have a look at here https://github.com/facebookresearch/phosa/issues/40   "cams": global_cams[inds].astype(np.float32), error is IndexError: index 5 is out of bounds for axis 0 with size 5
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2021-05-18 03:25:47	Wulf	pyeverything: if size is 5, of course 5 is out of bounds?
2021-05-18 03:26:31	pyeverything	so I am not sure how this code was working up until now and now not. It's not my code I am basically just running it. Wulf
2021-05-18 03:26:46	pyeverything	Wulf: not sure how I go about figuring how to fix it
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2021-05-18 03:27:43	pyeverything	wulf inds = np.argsort(bboxes[:, 0]) this is ind
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2021-05-18 03:27:51	Wulf	pyeverything: I don't know np.
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2021-05-18 03:28:31	pyeverything	wulf inds is:  [4 5 6 7 2 1 0 3]
2021-05-18 03:28:38	sylvain31	Hi, I would like to call a python lookup plugin from ansible, from another lookup plugin. It's probably a python dependencies trick, how Can in found the way to reach the original lookup code I want to call?  here the lookup plugin I want to call https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/blob/main/plugins/lookup/flattened.py installed in my python venv /root/ansible_azure/lib/python3.6/site-packages/ansibl
2021-05-18 03:28:38	sylvain31	e_collections/community/general/plugins/lookup/flattened.py any hint?
2021-05-18 03:28:48	pyeverything	np is numpy wulf
2021-05-18 03:28:57	Wulf	pyeverything: yes. Still don't know it.
2021-05-18 03:29:16	pyeverything	gotcha
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2021-05-18 04:16:13	jla	while 'pip3 install virtualenv ' ... now i do ' python3 -m env sat' and get error : ' /usr/bin/python3: No module named env' . Umh... what am i missing ?
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2021-05-18 04:20:43	Xeago	jla: the module to call is `venv`: python3 -m venv sat
2021-05-18 04:20:58	jla	ah ... ThX Xeago
2021-05-18 04:21:19	 *	jla sure, as per https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/installing-packages/#requirements-for-installing-packages
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2021-05-18 04:25:36	sylvain31	answering to myself: https://bpa.st/ACNQ
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2021-05-18 04:37:33	graingert	jla: no need to install virtualenv for `venv` support
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2021-05-18 04:37:46	graingert	jla: you can use `python3 -m virtualenv` if you do want that though
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2021-05-18 04:41:44	teut	https://dpaste.org/AFa5
2021-05-18 04:41:55	teut	what does this means?
2021-05-18 04:42:14	bjs	teut: it means you tried to unpack an int, and you can't do that because it is not iterable.
2021-05-18 04:42:23	teut	it doesnt seem so
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2021-05-18 04:42:52	teut	[1]*5   mean    [1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
2021-05-18 04:42:54	bjs	teut: it doesn't seem what?
2021-05-18 04:43:02	bjs	teut: yes that's not the unpacking then
2021-05-18 04:43:03	teut	that's the goal
2021-05-18 04:43:35	teut	yes thats multiplication
2021-05-18 04:44:26	teut	oops items
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2021-05-18 04:48:27	teut	what is the way but to resolve these kind of not very verbose errors
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2021-05-18 04:49:12	teut	IndexError or ValueError, these types are quite verbose but these other kinds can take quite a lot of time for some bigger code
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2021-05-18 04:50:45	bjs	teut: what do you mean "not very verbose"
2021-05-18 04:50:54	bjs	there was only 1 place on that line you did any unpacking, so it had to be there.
2021-05-18 04:51:26	bjs	it even told you why: it was an int not an iterable
2021-05-18 04:51:29	teut	but I dont think I did unpacking anywhere
2021-05-18 04:52:02	bjs	teut: well then, the answer is obvious: you need to learn the language better so you know what terms like "unpacking" mean. `for x, y in ...` and `x, y = ...` are unpacking operations
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2021-05-18 04:53:07	bjs	teut: the error said what went wrong, on what line, and why. It seems pretty verbose to me. Ideally it'd also have the column number, and maybe soon it will.
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2021-05-18 04:57:54	teut	yes you are right, I did not know these facts about unpacking
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2021-05-18 04:58:23	teut	values is a list ,  so that means???   j  is what then?
2021-05-18 04:58:53	teut	shouldnt it give IndexError?
2021-05-18 04:58:59	bjs	teut: well, the unpacking failed, there is no i or j
2021-05-18 04:59:05	teut	j has nothing to uterate upon
2021-05-18 04:59:08	teut	i*
2021-05-18 04:59:09	bjs	teut: no, it didn't try index anything. it tried to unpack them
2021-05-18 04:59:26	bjs	teut: yes there is no i or j in the failed run because it failed to unpack them
2021-05-18 04:59:35	teut	ok so parsing failed at that step
2021-05-18 04:59:39	bjs	teut: no
2021-05-18 04:59:42	bjs	teut: the unpacking failed?
2021-05-18 04:59:47	teut	ok
2021-05-18 04:59:49	bjs	the error is *very* clear
2021-05-18 05:00:04	teut	I need more experience
2021-05-18 05:00:31	bjs	teut: `x, y = 5`  this will fail with the same error
2021-05-18 05:00:51	bjs	you cannot say anything about x and y, the unpacking failed and so x and y do not exist
2021-05-18 05:00:59	teut	in the error "int" was mentioned of
2021-05-18 05:01:07	bjs	teut: yes.
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2021-05-18 05:01:15	bjs	teut: the line I just gave, gives you the same error
2021-05-18 05:01:17	teut	oh right
2021-05-18 05:01:19	bjs	teut: try run it: `i, j = 5`
2021-05-18 05:01:24	teut	that means  this what youu said
2021-05-18 05:01:34	teut	thanks
2021-05-18 05:01:38	teut	now its clear
2021-05-18 05:01:40	Kingsy	how do I check if some_list[0] exists before I access it?
2021-05-18 05:01:51	bjs	Kingsy: `if len(some_list) > 0`
2021-05-18 05:01:58	bjs	Kingsy: or just try access it and catch the IndexError you get
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2021-05-18 05:02:05	teut	try:    IndexError:
2021-05-18 05:02:12	bjs	teut: that is not the syntax no
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2021-05-18 05:02:21	Kingsy	cheers
2021-05-18 05:02:26	teut	except IndexError*
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2021-05-18 05:02:49	teut	I  stop coding a few days and I forget a hell lot of info
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2021-05-18 05:15:42	johnjay	it's because code is like fresh pasta or cheeseburgers
2021-05-18 05:15:49	johnjay	it goes stale or rots really fast
2021-05-18 05:16:17	johnjay	that's why putting lots of blocks of commented out code is bad
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2021-05-18 05:18:33	bjs	isn't the way you make dried pasta you start with fresh pasta and let it go stale
2021-05-18 05:18:36	bjs	and it lasts a long time
2021-05-18 05:19:50	Nik79	Hi, I have an application that works with some big (50MB~) binary dependencies (which are versioned as well, means they can be updated), what is the best way to manage it in my repo? commit these files will be a problem, using git LFS will be a problem to because that in order to test a dependency (on my CI server) I have to commit it, the only
2021-05-18 05:19:50	Nik79	other option I know is to store it on S3 or any other storage and write a script that download these binaries (using a manifest file that describe their verions), Anyone knows any application that deal with this issue to take a look on their solutions? ty!
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2021-05-18 05:20:08	johnjay	dunno. when i make bread it molds after 3-4 days
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2021-05-18 05:32:00	cerill	Is there a way I can iterate over two enums at the same time?
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2021-05-18 05:34:20	amo	cerill, how do you imagine that should work?
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2021-05-18 05:34:44	amo	like cogs in two wheels?
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2021-05-18 05:35:48	cerill	amo: I am not sure how it would work, I don't really fully understand it
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2021-05-18 05:36:25	amo	cerill, okay, let's go the other way round. what have you got and what do you expect should be the output?
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2021-05-18 05:37:02	amo	no explanation, just an example
2021-05-18 05:37:18	cerill	amo: I have two different enums, lets say one is Weekdays (containing 5 strings) and another is Weekend (containing two strings) so I want to be able to do one loop that prints out all 7 values
2021-05-18 05:37:30	amo	no explanation, just an example please ;)
2021-05-18 05:37:43	amo	use bpaste preferrably
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2021-05-18 05:40:28	cerill	https://bpa.st/SY3A something like that, obviously that code doesnt work
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2021-05-18 05:45:44	nedbat	cerill: for day in itertools.chain(Weekdays, Weekends): print(day.name)
2021-05-18 05:45:56	ezra-s	hello, I am trying to search in the documentation but I can't find it. Is there a way to compile Python 3.9.5 from source to just have the libraries? I am doing so to be able to compile another software, nghttp2, I don't need pip, tests or anything else, I could try to cull after make install but I am not sure of that. If anyone can point to a guide or document? Thanks in advance.
2021-05-18 05:46:34	cerill	nedbat: Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for
2021-05-18 05:46:44	nedbat	ezra-s: would it be bad to build the whole thing?
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2021-05-18 05:46:53	amo	another win for "no explanation, just an example" ;p
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2021-05-18 05:53:20	ezra-s	nedbat: it would not be bad at all, that's what I am doing now, I was just wondering because this will go inside a small "bundle" and I just need the libraries and considering disk space, security and all that, the less amount of necessary files the better. I am not too concerned though.
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2021-05-18 05:54:00	nedbat	ezra-s: sounds like picking the files you need out of a full build is the best way
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2021-05-18 05:57:26	shivam_	Hi! What's the difference between https://bpa.st/N74A
2021-05-18 05:57:27	shivam_	and
2021-05-18 05:57:38	shivam_	road = ([0]*30)*30
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2021-05-18 05:57:56	shivam_	aren't both of them 2d list's?
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2021-05-18 05:58:59	amo	you are appending the value of j in a range
2021-05-18 05:59:06	ezra-s	nedbat: yes, that will probably be my approach, assuming $target is where I installed the compiled source, I see inside lib/ there is a subdirectory called "python3.9" with lots of pyc files and tests, I was considering removing that one and pip/python files in bin/, to stick just with lib contents, not sure if that's wise though.
2021-05-18 06:00:23	amo	shivam_, and no, your road = ([0]*30)*30 is 1d
2021-05-18 06:00:35	amo	it's entirely different
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2021-05-18 06:01:14	nedbat	ezra-s: what library are you trying to include?
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2021-05-18 06:01:38	shivam_	amo, What is the simplest way to create a 2d array then?
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2021-05-18 06:01:51	amo	shivam_, what is your expected output?
2021-05-18 06:02:04	amo	do you accept numpy?
2021-05-18 06:02:07	shivam_	I just need to create a 2d array, I am learning how indexing in those works
2021-05-18 06:02:09	nedbat	shivam_: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201308/names_and_values_making_a_game_board.html
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2021-05-18 06:02:23	amo	nedbat, cheater ^^
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2021-05-18 06:02:44	ezra-s	nedbat: I am still investigating which exactly I need, nghttp2 complains it won't compile because Python libraries/version in the system are too old, compiling python from source and pointing nghttp2 to it did the trick
2021-05-18 06:02:48	nedbat	amo: writing things down is a form of automation :)
2021-05-18 06:02:50	DPA	[[*range(30)]]*30
2021-05-18 06:03:02	shivam_	okay so [[0]*30]*30 should work
2021-05-18 06:03:10	nedbat	shivam_: does it work?
2021-05-18 06:04:19	shenmicike	    dp = [[0.0] * W for _ in range(H)]
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2021-05-18 06:04:19	nedbat	DPA: i don't think that does what you want.
2021-05-18 06:04:19	shenmicike	dp = [[0.0] * W for _ in range(H)] create a W x H 2d array with default 0.0
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2021-05-18 06:04:19	shivam_	nedbat, it does not :')
2021-05-18 06:04:19	nedbat	shivam_: that blog post explains why
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2021-05-18 06:04:52	nedbat	shivam_, DPA: you are getting 30 references to the same 30-element list
2021-05-18 06:05:00	ezra-s	I understand what I read so far is not too revealing "The Python bindings require the following packages: cython >= 0.19 python >= 3.8 python-setuptools"
2021-05-18 06:05:01	amo	can we skip the whole list-of-lists and go straight for numpy, please? ^^
2021-05-18 06:05:14	DPA	nedbat: 30 lists with integers 0 to 29 inclusive, same as the initial paste there: https://bpa.st/N74A
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2021-05-18 06:05:28	amo	indexing standard list-of-lists is so annoying
2021-05-18 06:05:38	nedbat	DPA: do this:  b = [[*range(30)]]*30;  b[0][0] = 999;  print(b)
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2021-05-18 06:05:48	DPA	Oh
2021-05-18 06:06:39	ezra-s	anyways, I think I got my answer, I will compile, and remove bits afterwards and test if something breaks afterwards. Thanks for the hints nedbat.
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2021-05-18 06:06:54	shivam_	Woah! Now I understand
2021-05-18 06:07:08	shivam_	Using range() solves the issue
2021-05-18 06:07:18	shivam_	Thanks nedbat amo
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2021-05-18 06:07:26	amo	shivam_, you're welcome
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2021-05-18 06:16:41	Sheila	hi, I'm a developer with Alpine and Adélie, and I was informed by ncopa that Python was looking for someone to sponsor a musl buildbot? who would I need to talk to/where to work on that?
2021-05-18 06:17:15	bxsx	I noticed that asyncio doc has removed "This module provides infrastructure for writing single-threaded concurrent code using coroutines" in Python3.7. Is there any change in Py3.7 that makes this statement invalid?
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2021-05-18 06:17:57	_habnabit	Sheila, #python-dev would be the place to ask
2021-05-18 06:18:05	Sheila	okay, thanks.
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2021-05-18 06:26:07	bxsx	where are source files of the docs.python.org?
2021-05-18 06:27:22	graingert	bxsx: it's a package I guess
2021-05-18 06:27:52	ChrisWarrick	bxsx: the asyncio docs were rewritten in 3.7 to be much more approachable, and this statement isn’t, so I guess that’s why it was dropped
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2021-05-18 06:31:00	graingert	https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.6/Doc/library/asyncio.rst
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2021-05-18 06:32:11	graingert	> asyncio is used as a foundation for multiple Python asynchronous frameworks that provide high-performance network and web-servers, database connection libraries, distributed task queues, etc.
2021-05-18 06:32:17	graingert	Replaced with that
2021-05-18 06:32:35	graingert	Foundation of which asynchronous frameworks? Tornado?
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2021-05-18 06:33:01	graingert	Twisted has an asyncio shim, but it's not foundational
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2021-05-18 06:33:10	graingert	anyio has support for asyncio but again not foundational
2021-05-18 06:33:36	_habnabit	graingert, shhh it's marketing speak. it doesn't mean anything
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2021-05-18 06:37:39	IHasFinger	Hi all, hope we are all well. I need help please. https://github.com/mementum/backtrader/blob/master/backtrader/feeds/pandafeed.py#L107 I am calling this like https://bpa.st/AJWQ but getting an error AttributeError: 'numpy.int64' object has no attribute 'lower'
2021-05-18 06:37:39	IHasFinger	 
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2021-05-18 06:44:44	bjs	IHasFinger: I think it wants the columns to have actual names
2021-05-18 06:44:53	bjs	not just be numbers, but it's hard to tell, from just this
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2021-05-18 06:46:54	Abo99	Hi, there's an option to get the name of field as str of a dataclass?
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2021-05-18 06:47:19	_habnabit	Abo99, which field
2021-05-18 06:47:22	Abo99	I want to use the name and ensure a refactor will change this code as well
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2021-05-18 06:47:46	Abo99	@dataclass class A: my_field: str                 want to get 'my_field' somehow
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2021-05-18 06:47:58	_habnabit	Abo99, does your class only have one field ever?
2021-05-18 06:48:03	Abo99	Nope, multiple
2021-05-18 06:48:11	_habnabit	Abo99, then which one do you want to 'get'?
2021-05-18 06:48:17	graingert	_habnabit: What does that mean
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2021-05-18 06:48:37	Abo99	I want to write something using A.my_field (if possible), to ensure refactor will change thie code as well
2021-05-18 06:49:15	_habnabit	Abo99, i don't understand. how do you 'use' it without naming it? how do you know which field you want to 'get' it?
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2021-05-18 06:49:39	_habnabit	Abo99, i think you might be focused on something that doesn't matter
2021-05-18 06:49:40	Abo99	I can name it, to write for example: A.my_field explicit
2021-05-18 06:50:38	_habnabit	graingert, what does what mean
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2021-05-18 06:52:03	graingert	_habnabit: Asyncio marketing speak?
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2021-05-18 06:52:19	_habnabit	graingert, it clearly wasn't written for a programmer to read
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2021-05-18 07:00:20	graingert	_habnabit: ???
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2021-05-18 07:00:42	_habnabit	graingert, what?
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2021-05-18 07:03:08	P1ckleRick	Afternoon
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2021-05-18 07:11:30	nedbat	P1ckleRick: hey there
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2021-05-18 07:15:16	graingert	_habnabit: Who's supposed to read it
2021-05-18 07:15:18	IHasFinger	bjs, when I give it actual names I get this error "AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'to_pydatetime'" which is referring to https://github.com/mementum/backtrader/blob/master/backtrader/feeds/pandafeed.py#L268
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2021-05-18 07:15:28	_habnabit	graingert, idk.. managers?
2021-05-18 07:15:39	_habnabit	graingert, like billboards in airports
2021-05-18 07:16:26	graingert	_habnabit: asyncio is exhausting
2021-05-18 07:16:31	_habnabit	graingert, agreed
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2021-05-18 07:20:19	bjs	IHasFinger: Python usually gives a whole traceback, which is much more useful than just a single line
2021-05-18 07:20:38	bjs	IHasFinger: but presumably it's expecting something to be some kind of datetime
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2021-05-18 07:47:13	Guest20	hi there
2021-05-18 07:47:22	Guest20	i had pip3 installed
2021-05-18 07:47:36	Guest20	when i do python3 -m pip3 install pyyaml
2021-05-18 07:47:39	Guest20	i get an error saying No module named pip3
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2021-05-18 07:49:28	nedbat	Guest20: you want "python3 -m pip install pyyaml"
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2021-05-18 07:49:50	Guest20	nedbat i get this FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directo
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2021-05-18 07:50:15	nedbat	Guest20: can you pastebin the full command and output?
2021-05-18 07:50:25	Guest20	nedbat https://dpaste.org/edpC
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2021-05-18 07:51:07	nedbat	Guest20: that looks very odd.  How did you install Python?
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2021-05-18 07:51:17	tumbleweed	broken virtualenv?
2021-05-18 07:51:23	Guest20	nedbat python was already installed for me
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2021-05-18 07:52:05	avu	maybe try with -E
2021-05-18 07:52:18	Guest20	avu what is -E
2021-05-18 07:52:34	avu	Guest20: it makes python ignore things like PYTHONPATH
2021-05-18 07:52:50	afidegnum	hi, i'm able to print directory listings, but i'm a bit stuck on printing files in each directories. can you please give a gist of how do i proceed? here is what i have done so far: https://dpaste.org/2eyK
2021-05-18 07:53:00	avu	Guest20: so `python3 -E -m pip install pyyaml`
2021-05-18 07:54:10	Guest20	still the same problem
2021-05-18 07:54:15	avu	although now that I've seen that a virtualenv is activated, I think this is less likely to do something useful
2021-05-18 07:54:33	Guest20	avu how to solve this
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2021-05-18 07:54:54	avu	Guest20: I would start by re-creating the virtualenv. How did you create it?
2021-05-18 07:55:29	Guest20	avu ython3 -m venv myenv
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2021-05-18 07:55:39	Guest20	source myenv/bin/activate
2021-05-18 07:55:50	Guest20	avu how can i delete the venv
2021-05-18 07:56:05	avu	ah, so it's not a virtualenv but a venv, I have almost zero experience with those
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2021-05-18 07:56:15	avu	Guest20: you run `deactivate`
2021-05-18 07:56:20	Guest20	yes that worked
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2021-05-18 08:03:06	afidegnum	any insight ?
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2021-05-18 08:10:18	very_sneaky	afidegnum: the pathlib package might be worth looking at
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2021-05-18 08:11:03	afidegnum	very_sneaky: i'm  a bit confused on how to use it ?
2021-05-18 08:11:08	very_sneaky	or `os.` - `os.listdir()` looks like it will do what you want
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2021-05-18 08:11:26	very_sneaky	https://docs.python.org/3/library/pathlib.html#correspondence-to-tools-in-the-os-module
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2021-05-18 08:12:30	very_sneaky	afidegnum: example of iterating over files in a directory using pathlib: https://docs.python.org/3/library/pathlib.html#pathlib.Path.iterdir
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2021-05-18 08:13:44	TheBard	i am looking at an example from the py documenation, its a while loop.  can anyone explain what's going on in the last line  https://bpa.st/E2TA
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2021-05-18 08:14:38	very_sneaky	TheBard: assignments to variables a and b using the previous values of a and b
2021-05-18 08:14:52	very_sneaky	equivelant to a = b; b = a+b;
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2021-05-18 08:15:29	Yhg1s	(but with the old value of a)
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2021-05-18 08:15:39	very_sneaky	well, not _exactly_ equivelant: the new value of `a` isn't used in the calculation for `b`
2021-05-18 08:15:43	very_sneaky	^
2021-05-18 08:15:49	TheBard	its hard for me to read for some reason.
2021-05-18 08:16:03	DPA	tmp=a; a = b; b = tmp+b;
2021-05-18 08:16:18	Yhg1s	TheBard: you can think of it as 'new_a = b; b += a; a = new_a'
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2021-05-18 08:16:35	very_sneaky	`b, a+b` looks like it should return a tuple
2021-05-18 08:16:43	Yhg1s	it does return a tuple.
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2021-05-18 08:16:50	TheBard	ok, that's more clear.
2021-05-18 08:17:01	TheBard	thanks
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2021-05-18 08:17:10	very_sneaky	Yhg1s: well, there you go :P
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2021-05-18 08:18:19	TheBard	wait.. b+=a?   so a+b means  b = b+a
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2021-05-18 08:19:13	Yhg1s	TheBard: no, I just assumed commutativity there.
2021-05-18 08:19:43	very_sneaky	TheBard: DPAs interpretation might be clearer for you
2021-05-18 08:19:46	Yhg1s	TheBard: it's not *actually* the same, which is why I said "you can think of it as ..."
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2021-05-18 08:20:20	Yhg1s	It's much closer to 't = (b, a+b); (a, b) = t'
2021-05-18 08:20:26	TheBard	oh... oh. i see. its like an assigmnent..
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2021-05-18 08:20:37	amo	inplace
2021-05-18 08:20:37	Yhg1s	+= is an assignment, yes.
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2021-05-18 08:21:08	TheBard	can you have as many as you want,   a,b,c = 1,2,3 ?
2021-05-18 08:21:23	Yhg1s	TheBard: yes, you can have as many items as you want in a tuple.
2021-05-18 08:21:39	TheBard	ok. thanks again. back to the docs '-)
2021-05-18 08:21:39	Yhg1s	'1, 2, 3' creates a tuple, 'a, b, c = ...' unpacks the tuple.
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2021-05-18 08:37:29	P1ckleRick	I'm trying to create a new registry entry, just before starting a PyQT5 application. I need admin rights to create the entry - This works standalone to create the entry/check for admin rights....although when run as a function before my Qt app the cmdlet stays open and causes issues with the app
2021-05-18 08:37:30	P1ckleRick	https://bpa.st/ZSKQ
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2021-05-18 08:47:21	afidegnum	hi, while i was trying to list files in directories i encountered this error: UnicodeEncodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't encode characters in position 0-15: surrogates not allowed so i proceed to write this and i have the following error. what am i missing ? https://dpaste.org/nNSK
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2021-05-18 08:48:37	graingert	afidegnum: you want os.fsencode(p)
2021-05-18 08:48:39	graingert	maybe?
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2021-05-18 08:48:46	Yhg1s	afidegnum: 'f' is a pathlib.Path, which doesn't have an 'encode' method.
2021-05-18 08:48:54	afidegnum	ok,
2021-05-18 08:49:06	graingert	afidegnum: why are you using glob.glob and not pathlib.Path.glob?
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2021-05-18 08:49:43	afidegnum	graingert: it hasn't crossed my mind, i am familiar with glob only,
2021-05-18 08:49:45	graingert	and you re-assign p? it starts as a str and becomes a pathlib.Path?
2021-05-18 08:49:47	Yhg1s	afidegnum: although it's hard to tell what the traceback pertains to
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2021-05-18 08:50:08	Yhg1s	afidegnum: perhaps it would be better to look at the *original* error.
2021-05-18 08:50:24	graingert	afidegnum: maybe you wanted `for p_ in pathlib.Path(".").glob(p):` ?
2021-05-18 08:50:36	afidegnum	Yhg1s: at the utf error ?
2021-05-18 08:50:37	graingert	like what's p?
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2021-05-18 08:50:50	afidegnum	that's the file path
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2021-05-18 08:51:07	Yhg1s	afidegnum: I don't know what you mean by 'the utf error'. I mean the error you said you originally encountered.
2021-05-18 08:51:17	afidegnum	ok, hold a sec,
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2021-05-18 08:52:09	Peyam	hi
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2021-05-18 08:53:29	f3r0x	anyone know how to detect transients in audio?
2021-05-18 08:55:17	amo	f3r0x, transients?
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2021-05-18 08:57:14	f3r0x	short duration, sharp onset events, high-energy relative to rest of signal
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2021-05-18 08:57:57	stevieh	I remember, when I left this area 10 yr ago, it was very complicated... maybe this has changed and been replaced by AI
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2021-05-18 08:58:20	f3r0x	sounds like you have some good relevant experience stevieh
2021-05-18 08:58:43	amo	f3r0x, did you look into continuous wavelets?
2021-05-18 08:58:48	stevieh	not from programing side tbh
2021-05-18 08:58:52	f3r0x	no amo, what is that
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2021-05-18 08:59:20	amo	f3r0x, hold on
2021-05-18 09:00:22	amo	f3r0x, do you like youtube for learning new stuff or do you prefer reading?
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2021-05-18 09:00:48	varaindemian	can I somehow give an input file with some key: value pairs and then output in a template file (that contains only only keys) the corresponding values to some other key names?
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2021-05-18 09:01:02	f3r0x	hmm, would take both resources if they're on offer :D
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2021-05-18 09:01:29	amo	okay, then sorry for the spam beforehand ^^
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2021-05-18 09:01:39	amo	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkGK0MloK0E - Ingrid Daubechies - 1/4 Time-Frequency Localization and Applications
2021-05-18 09:01:49	afidegnum	Yhg1s: this is the initial situation i was facing, https://dpaste.org/FO3X
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2021-05-18 09:02:00	amo	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX1-xGVFqmw - Understanding Wavelets, Part 1: What Are Wavelets in matlab
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2021-05-18 09:02:20	amo	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7KLbd7n75g - Wavelets and Multiresolution Analysis by Steve Brunton
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2021-05-18 09:03:41	amo	http://links.uwaterloo.ca/amath391w13docs/Mallat3.pdf - 824 pages of wavelet goodness
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2021-05-18 09:04:25	amo	https://pywavelets.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ref/cwt.html <- the main package for working in python
2021-05-18 09:05:49	varaindemian	anybody?
2021-05-18 09:05:57	amo	f3r0x, that should get you started
2021-05-18 09:06:03	f3r0x	thanks amo, i'll let you know how i get on if you're interested
2021-05-18 09:06:11	amo	sure, thanks
2021-05-18 09:06:45	bjs	varaindemian: your question isn't very clear
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2021-05-18 09:06:58	very_sneaky	varaindemian: sure? read in the values, write the values out with desired key? what am i missing
2021-05-18 09:07:08	Peyam	can anyone help me do a list/dict comprehension for this for loop? https://bpa.st/JFGA maybe using a lambda? I can not make it work
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2021-05-18 09:08:46	amo	varaindemian, can you post an example of the input and desired output?
2021-05-18 09:08:52	amo	on bpaste, if possible
2021-05-18 09:08:56	bjs	Peyam: `{x.uri: x.created for child in folder_info.children for x in [art.artifacts.info(f"{artifactPath}{child.uri}")]}`   or with := you can write something like `{(x := art.artifacts.info(...)).uri: x.created for child in ...}`
2021-05-18 09:09:20	Peyam	bjs i think := is >2.7?
2021-05-18 09:09:22	Peyam	3.7*
2021-05-18 09:09:44	bjs	Peyam: >=3.8,  but that's why I also gave the version without it :)
2021-05-18 09:10:12	Peyam	bjs thanks :)
2021-05-18 09:10:17	varaindemian	amo the output will be in a json format
2021-05-18 09:10:19	bjs	Peyam: i'm not sure either of these look any better than the f or loop
2021-05-18 09:10:57	amo	varaindemian, so?
2021-05-18 09:11:03	varaindemian	bjs: you have a text file with random key: value pairs. you then want to extract those values and append them in a given json file
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2021-05-18 09:11:33	very_sneaky	varaindemian: is the input in json?
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2021-05-18 09:11:54	bjs	varaindemian: so, read the input file, take the dictionary of key/value pairs and dump them to the given json file
2021-05-18 09:11:57	amo	varaindemian, we get the picture, but we don't know if it's the same picture you got in your head. an actual example would help us be clear
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2021-05-18 09:11:59	bjs	varaindemian: which part is giving you trouble?
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2021-05-18 09:15:58	varaindemian	amo: https://paste.ofcode.org/sC3XrRFXUTZzCQuA6GfPc3
2021-05-18 09:16:08	varaindemian	this is the output with empty fields
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2021-05-18 09:17:33	amo	someone else please help, i had to close my browser because of memory :>
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2021-05-18 09:17:55	bjs	amo: what is this file?
2021-05-18 09:17:58	bjs	oops
2021-05-18 09:18:00	bjs	varaindemian: what is this file?
2021-05-18 09:18:02	bjs	sorry amo :)
2021-05-18 09:18:05	amo	^^
2021-05-18 09:18:39	varaindemian	bjs: this is the file where I want my values to be added
2021-05-18 09:18:43	zitter	good * to all, is there a way to execute 02_script.py after 01_script.py has completed all instructions inside??
2021-05-18 09:18:58	varaindemian	the values are contained in a random text file
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2021-05-18 09:19:53	bjs	varaindemian: this doesn't look like a "random text file", it looks like some Python code?
2021-05-18 09:20:06	bjs	zitter: `python3 01_script.py && python3 02_script.py`
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2021-05-18 09:20:32	zitter	bjs, yeah :)
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2021-05-18 09:20:56	very_sneaky	zitter: if there are more files involved, bash for loop
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2021-05-18 09:21:14	varaindemian	bjs: this is the output where I want my values to be appended.
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2021-05-18 09:21:29	bjs	varaindemian: but it's Python code, not some text file or some json file
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2021-05-18 09:21:31	bjs	so I'm confused?
2021-05-18 09:21:33	zitter	I was thinking to call 02_script directly from 01_script but of course && is pretty convenient
2021-05-18 09:21:39	varaindemian	bjs
2021-05-18 09:21:49	varaindemian	bjs: yes
2021-05-18 09:22:05	bjs	varaindemian: your output file is not JSON, but a .py file?
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2021-05-18 09:25:17	very_sneaky	zitter: if you _really_ wanted to do that, you could put something like `import subprocess; p=subprocess.call(["python3","02_script.py"])` at the end of 01_script.py
2021-05-18 09:25:47	very_sneaky	unless you have a good reason to you should probably prefer just using bash
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2021-05-18 09:26:45	jabberwock	is anyone else getting cert errors from pypi using pip3?
2021-05-18 09:26:45	tos9	mrig: /9
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2021-05-18 09:27:22	jabberwock	[SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed: unable to get local issuer certificate (_ssl.c:1129)'))': /simple/selenium/
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2021-05-18 09:27:28	jabberwock	hmm
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2021-05-18 09:29:41	tos9	jabberwock: ssllabs is generally the easiest way to tell if SSL issues are theirs or yours
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2021-05-18 09:29:56	tos9	https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=pypi.org
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2021-05-18 09:31:21	varaindemian	bjs: this is my output file. it can be anything
2021-05-18 09:31:23	Peng	pypi.org and pypi.python.org use a CDN, though, so things could go awry regionally
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2021-05-18 09:31:54	varaindemian	do you know anything that can do this? or do you have an example for this?
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2021-05-18 09:32:36	jabberwock	tos9: good point, ty!
2021-05-18 09:32:51	jabberwock	tos9: but if someone answered "yes" in here then that would have been easier
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2021-05-18 09:33:26	bjs	varaindemian: im still confused
2021-05-18 09:33:37	bjs	varaindemian: you said you had some input file in a key: value format,  then an output file which was JSON
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2021-05-18 09:33:47	bjs	varaindemian: but the only thing you've shown is neither of those and is something completely different?
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2021-05-18 09:34:37	arecaceae	given I have a string `a = "\\n"` how do I get `"\n` out ?
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2021-05-18 09:35:10	InPhase	arecaceae: Do you want the trailing quote also?
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2021-05-18 09:35:14	bjs	arecaceae: where did it come from?  a is a string of two characters, a backslash and an n
2021-05-18 09:35:25	varaindemian	bjs: I said I have a text file with some random key: value paris inserted there. That means it can be something like this: "Hello world key1: value1 I want money key2: value2" -> append the values in a given file. Questions: How? Starting points. Please
2021-05-18 09:36:04	bjs	varaindemian: well, like i said, read the file and make a dict {"hello world key1": "value1", ...}  and then open the output file and append to it
2021-05-18 09:36:31	bjs	if the output file is JSON you can just load it, update it with the new key/values, and then dump the new one back out
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2021-05-18 09:37:06	InPhase	arecaceae: s.split('=')[1].strip()  This would be a standard sort of idiom for grabbing the right side of a string assignment, and removing extra whitespace.
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2021-05-18 09:37:41	varaindemian	bjs: okay. that sounds good. Do you have examples?
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2021-05-18 09:37:46	bjs	varaindemian: of what part
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2021-05-18 09:38:51	InPhase	arecaceae: If it's possible that a '=' appears inside of the right side of your string, then you should use s.split('=', 1) and be explicit.  You have to know the scope of what you're going to be passing into such a thing.
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2021-05-18 09:39:39	very_sneaky	varaindemian: this looks like it has a reasonable summary of reading json from and writing json to files: https://stackabuse.com/reading-and-writing-json-to-a-file-in-python/
2021-05-18 09:39:44	Peyam	I have a list of entries like `2021-04-30 11:02:37.861000+00:00` how do I get the closest date to now?
2021-05-18 09:40:13	very_sneaky	Peyam: are there any future dates?
2021-05-18 09:40:17	Peyam	no
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2021-05-18 09:40:57	very_sneaky	convert the strings to `datetime` objects, put them in a list and call `sort()` on the list, then take the last element
2021-05-18 09:41:10	bjs	Peyam: write a function to parse into a datetime, and compute the difference to now(), then get the min(list_of_entries, key=that_function)
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2021-05-18 09:41:33	Peyam	bjs they are strings
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2021-05-18 09:41:46	bjs	Peyam: yes I see
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2021-05-18 09:42:14	Peyam	should still calculate the different? cast them into a date object?
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2021-05-18 09:42:40	bjs	Peyam: difference = parsed_dt - datetime.now()
2021-05-18 09:42:43	InPhase	Peyam: If it's guaranteed they are all UTC, converting to datetime is superfluous.  If they are different timezones, you must convert.
2021-05-18 09:42:45	bjs	or maybe now() - that
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2021-05-18 09:43:15	very_sneaky	Peyam: somethign like `sorted = [datetime.strptime(x, "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S.%s") for x in date_str_list].sort(); newest = sorted[-1];`
2021-05-18 09:43:35	very_sneaky	i took a guess that the format string so you'd probably need to fix something
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2021-05-18 09:46:11	Yhg1s	you'd also have to fix the fact that [].sort() returns None.
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2021-05-18 09:46:27	Peyam	bjs TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -: 'dict_values' and 'datetime.datetime'
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2021-05-18 09:46:35	bjs	Peyam: dict_values ?!
2021-05-18 09:46:56	Peyam	the date strings are inside a dict . in dict.values()
2021-05-18 09:47:08	bjs	Peyam: okay but you've done something that wasn't what I suggested then
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2021-05-18 09:47:25	Peyam	uri_vs_date.values()-datetime.now()
2021-05-18 09:47:46	bjs	Peyam: no, I said you need to call min(entries, key=that_function) where that_function parsed the datetime then did the difference
2021-05-18 09:48:04	varaindemian	very_sneaky: I am not reading from json and writing to json. I am reading from random and writing to a file of mine
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2021-05-18 09:49:37	very_sneaky	Yhg1s: uh, derp. didn't realise that `sort` operates in place
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2021-05-18 09:49:50	afidegnum	while comparing the file listing outputs, encoded files are omitted, compared to utf-files, when I inspected the directory listings, i noticed some files contains special charachters too, is there a way to change that or rather accept everyting no matter the characters? here is my current code, https://dpaste.org/TncK
2021-05-18 09:49:59	SnoopJ	very_sneaky, sorted() is the spelling that makes a new list
2021-05-18 09:50:11	very_sneaky	good to know
2021-05-18 09:50:12	SnoopJ	(and is therefore generally what you want, because lists are pretty much free)
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2021-05-18 09:51:08	very_sneaky	varaindemian: is each key:value pair on it's own line?
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2021-05-18 09:56:00	very_sneaky	varaindemian: maybe this will be a useful reference for reading in random formats and parsing it line-by-line into a dictionary: https://stackoverflow.com/a/9161531
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2021-05-18 10:00:15	rond_	Hi! How to define a MinPooling, or MedianPooling, in TF Keras?
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2021-05-18 10:01:46	rond_	what's happening here?
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2021-05-18 10:05:33	varaindemian	very_sneaky: they are not on the same line
2021-05-18 10:05:42	varaindemian	very_sneaky: they are inserted randomly
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2021-05-18 10:19:29	tinyhippo	where would you put the list of python dependencies that are ONLY required for CI/testing?
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2021-05-18 10:19:58	_habnabit	tinyhippo, poetry has a section called dev-dependencies that i put those into
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2021-05-18 10:20:09	_habnabit	tinyhippo, and/or i put them in an extra
2021-05-18 10:20:40	tinyhippo	is that compatible with serverless framework,  to your knowledge?
2021-05-18 10:20:50	grym	tinyhippo: usually as an extras package named 'dev'
2021-05-18 10:20:55	_habnabit	tinyhippo, i don't know what that is, but probably
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2021-05-18 10:23:40	bjs	varaindemian: randomly? the key/values should be on their own line, or have some separation between them at least
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2021-05-18 10:23:46	gordonjcp	tinyhippo: as I understand it, when you package stuff the things in "setup.py" are for packaging for users and the things in "requirements.txt" are for developers
2021-05-18 10:23:50	bjs	varaindemian: otherwise you can't tell where a value ends and a key begins
2021-05-18 10:24:07	gordonjcp	tinyhippo: I could be wrong, and someone is likely going to come along and explain how wrong I am
2021-05-18 10:24:24	tinyhippo	I dont think that fits our use-case, as we're solely writing lambda functions
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2021-05-18 10:24:34	tinyhippo	lambda as in aws lambda, so no setup.py
2021-05-18 10:25:05	InPhase	gordonjcp: You could be right, and someone is still likely going to come along and explain how wrong you are.
2021-05-18 10:25:29	arecaceae	is there a version of `os.symlink` that doesn't resolve its `src` or `dst` args in case they are symlinks themselves?
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2021-05-18 10:30:14	SnoopJ	arecaceae, does os.symlink() do that on your system? It does what you're asking for on my (Ubuntu 20.04) system
2021-05-18 10:31:21	arecaceae	SnoopJ: thanks for the info, nvm then
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2021-05-18 10:31:50	SnoopJ	it's possible the behavior can vary
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2021-05-18 10:34:36	raek	does anyone know a good place to read about how to implement immutable types in extensions?
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2021-05-18 10:34:58	raek	(or if anyone happens to know about the pure python case I'm curious about that too)
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2021-05-18 10:36:47	Yhg1s	raek: in Python it's hard to make them actually immutable, but you can make them not trivially mutable. In extensions you have to do extra work to make any data in the PyObject struct mutable.
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2021-05-18 10:38:26	SnoopJ	and you should be careful to be as specific as you can be about who sees the type as immutable: the C-API offers ways to mutate tuples, but the Python type does not.
2021-05-18 10:38:52	Yhg1s	(only newly created tuples.)
2021-05-18 10:39:00	pragmaticenigma	What comes to mind for an immutable object, would be to use the double underscore encapsulation, and only define properties getters
2021-05-18 10:39:23	SnoopJ	Yhg1s, is there something that prevents the mutate-y functions from changing tuples that have hung around for a while, or is that a usage convention?
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2021-05-18 10:40:15	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Objects/tupleobject.c#L197
2021-05-18 10:40:56	SnoopJ	ahh, I should've looked before asking :)
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2021-05-18 10:53:07	mikeike2	hi everyone. i'm trying to do something like l.append(PDFFile(args..))  but i keep getting 'PDFFile' object is not subscriptable
2021-05-18 10:53:21	mikeike2	i'm trying to create a list of PDFFile objects
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2021-05-18 10:57:16	graingert	mikeike2: show your code?
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2021-05-18 10:59:18	mikeike2	graingert https://dpaste.org/WPfq
2021-05-18 10:59:28	mikeike2	i get the error on line 28
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2021-05-18 10:59:36	mikeike2	tell me if you need to see any other parts of the code
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2021-05-18 11:00:09	mikeike2	i made some changes and i get the same error on line 24.
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2021-05-18 11:01:10	mikeike2	oh crap. i see the problem.
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2021-05-18 11:01:13	graingert	mikeike2: Show the full Traceback?
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2021-05-18 11:01:39	mikeike2	sorry for wasting your time. thanks!
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2021-05-18 11:03:44	graingert	?
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2021-05-18 11:04:39	Kingsy	if I have a call like this -> self.client.places_autocomplete(...) <- where self.client is self.client = googlemaps.Client(base_url=url, key=api_key) <- how can I mock that in a test? I have with mock.patch('googlemaps.client.places_autocomplete', ... right now, but that doesnt seem to do anything..
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2021-05-18 11:08:52	bancroft_	BytesIO().getvalue() returns a bytes object right?
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2021-05-18 11:09:04	bancroft_	for mypy
2021-05-18 11:09:46	stealth_	bancroft_, ya but why would you want to do that?
2021-05-18 11:10:19	stealth_	bancroft_, if you are using BytesIO there should be some reason to use it as a mimic of FileIO
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2021-05-18 11:11:31	bancroft_	stealth_: gen some binary files for some tests without having binary files in the repo and other reasons
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2021-05-18 11:12:17	stealth_	bancroft_, wouldn't it be better just to do b'something'
2021-05-18 11:12:23	Kingsy	like if I have a function. I can see it in the source code. what is the best way of finding its "path" to mock it?
2021-05-18 11:12:34	talin	hello. how can i wrap a long line like: print("{blah + yarr + meep + something + else}")?
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2021-05-18 11:12:44	bancroft_	Kingsy: can you give a code example?
2021-05-18 11:13:02	bancroft_	talin, just do multiple lines of strings without commas
2021-05-18 11:14:19	bancroft_	talin: https://bpa.st/UVLA
2021-05-18 11:14:32	grym	talin: https://bpa.st/CYWQ  is legal
2021-05-18 11:14:45	talin	hmm
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2021-05-18 11:15:36	grym	two string literals with only whitespace in between is implicit concatenation
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2021-05-18 11:15:42	Kingsy	bancroft_: sure. well the real work example is, my code is including the googlemaps api package. and it references this function -> https://github.com/googlemaps/google-maps-services-python/blob/master/googlemaps/client.py#L444 <- which I want to mock.
2021-05-18 11:15:54	grym	never really sure if that's a misfeature or not, but it is occasionally quite handy
2021-05-18 11:16:22	bancroft_	I love it, but it was mind blowing when someone told me about it too
2021-05-18 11:16:29	talin	bancroft_, grym: thanks guys :)
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2021-05-18 11:19:15	Kingsy	bancroft_: I just don't understand the code in this pakcage.
2021-05-18 11:19:44	mikeike2	in a list of instances of the same object, say [Obj(1), Obj(2), ...], will del recognize each instance? for example, f,g = Obj(1), Obj(2); list = [f,g]; del list[f] is going to delete the instance that was created with Obj(1)? both of them?
2021-05-18 11:20:25	mikeike2	in other words, as far as del is considered, is Obj(1) identical to another Obj(1)? is Obj(1) identical to Obj(2) because they are of the same Obj?
2021-05-18 11:20:32	mikeike2	s/considered/concerned
2021-05-18 11:20:50	grym	mikeike2: you can try it out and see what happens
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2021-05-18 11:22:20	mikeike2	TypeError: list indices must be integers or slices, not O
2021-05-18 11:22:21	mikeike2	fml
2021-05-18 11:22:43	mikeike2	so i need to loop through and remove by the index 'manually'?
2021-05-18 11:22:57	grym	mikeike2: the usual idiom to filter a list is to use a comprehension.
2021-05-18 11:23:18	grym	mikeike2: `mylist = [x for x in mylist if this_returns_true_about_x(x)]`
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2021-05-18 11:23:47	mikeike2	grym so you suggest to recreate the list without the object that i want to delete?
2021-05-18 11:23:49	grym	yes
2021-05-18 11:23:52	Kingsy	ah ha! its this -> https://github.com/googlemaps/google-maps-services-python/blob/master/googlemaps/places.py#L499 <- specifically I want to mock.
2021-05-18 11:24:04	grym	mikeike2: and if your filter is really simple, you can write a lambda there
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2021-05-18 11:24:11	grym	or test an attribute, or w/e
2021-05-18 11:24:22	bancroft_	Kingsy: I would do import pdb; pdb.set_trace() and just dir() and help() on objects in `from googlemaps.client import Client, Client.places_autocomplete, ... `
2021-05-18 11:24:24	grym	[x for x in mylist if x.foo=="bar"], say
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2021-05-18 11:25:08	bancroft_	Kingsy: just try stuff, because i'm not quickly finding anything in the docs
2021-05-18 11:25:15	mikeike2	yup that works. how'd you do it with lambda, out of curiousity?
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2021-05-18 11:25:27	Kingsy	bancroft_: sorry what do you mean? could you shove that in a bpaste?
2021-05-18 11:25:49	mikeike2	the test is simple, just omitting the item if item.name == "whatever" (or keeping if != "whatever")
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2021-05-18 11:26:41	grym	mikeike2: er, probably not a lambda actually.  that's more natural for things like sorted(), which take a key=
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2021-05-18 11:26:50	mikeike2	okay
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2021-05-18 11:27:17	bancroft_	Kingsy: https://bpa.st/D4YA
2021-05-18 11:27:20	grym	mikeike2: e.g., sorted([(1,"hi"),(0,"apple")], key=lambda x: x[0])
2021-05-18 11:27:26	grym	(sorts by integer)
2021-05-18 11:27:43	grym	sorted([(1,"hi"),(0,"apple")], key=lambda x: x[1]) sorts lexicographically by string
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2021-05-18 11:28:39	mikeike2	thanks.
2021-05-18 11:29:09	codehotter	Is it always legal to nest a json document? So if "s" is a json document and I do f'{"s": {s}' is that guaranteed to be valid json? Or do I need to deserialize it, build an object, and reserialize it?
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2021-05-18 11:29:39	ChrisWarrick	codehotter: don’t build json by hand
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2021-05-18 11:29:42	derphilipp	I have multiple threads. What should I use to set and get states? (example: states set by http service, but read by UDP service)
2021-05-18 11:29:47	ChrisWarrick	codehotter: use the json library, no exceptions
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2021-05-18 11:30:27	codehotter	ChrisWarrick: I'm not actually in python, I'm in a low code platform that I can't easily deserialize and reserialize objects in without creating a "native extension" :P
2021-05-18 11:30:39	Kingsy	bancroft_: I cant really use set_trace, I am looking at it through a debugger anyway
2021-05-18 11:30:46	codehotter	It would be convenient if that was guaranteed to be valid json
2021-05-18 11:30:48	ChrisWarrick	codehotter: #python helps with python
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2021-05-18 11:32:05	Kingsy	bancroft_: so I have places_autocomplete in Client
2021-05-18 11:32:13	Peyam	bjs, I lost your code about the datetime
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2021-05-18 11:32:39	Kingsy	bancroft_: so perhaps -> googlemaps.client.Client.places_autocomplete
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2021-05-18 11:33:07	bancroft_	places_autocomplete is a method
2021-05-18 11:33:14	codehotter	ChrisWarrick: sorry I mean I'm errr. concerned about performance, and if it's guaranteed to be valid JSON, that would surely be faster than deserializing and reserializing
2021-05-18 11:33:27	Kingsy	bancroft_: that did it!!
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2021-05-18 11:33:58	pragmaticenigma	codehotter: The only way to really validate what you are doing is to use tools to validate with. You're giving hypotheticals which without a lot more context, and being beyond the scope of this channel, can't be answered
2021-05-18 11:34:00	ELFrederich	anyone know if it is possible with poetry to override PyPI using an environment variable and not editing pyproject.toml?  Like how with pip you can use PIP_INDEX_URL
2021-05-18 11:34:12	ChrisWarrick	codehotter: I would still be concerned about taking this shortcut so that it doesn’t encourage too many shortcuts (even though it should always produce valid json)
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2021-05-18 11:35:25	pragmaticenigma	codehotter: The only way to verify something works or not is to use a real json library to perform the serialize and deserialize to validate your test case with. If a known json library doesn't like it, then it's a high probability it's not valid.
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2021-05-18 11:35:28	gloomy_desktop	Hey, if I have a Nx2 numpy vector, what's the short way to swap its columns?
2021-05-18 11:35:51	_habnabit	gloomy_desktop, arr[:, ::-1] maybe
2021-05-18 11:35:59	gloomy_desktop	I can think of many dumb ways of doing it but there must be a way to make it more concise :-)
2021-05-18 11:36:31	pragmaticenigma	also, string inserting json inside of other json is a bad idea. just like string inserting to SQL queries are a bad idea
2021-05-18 11:36:44	gloomy_desktop	_habnabit: yes!!!! been fumbling around with indices to no end.... thanks!
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2021-05-18 11:37:20	codehotter	pragmaticenigma: That makes perfect sense - and I can actually validate a bunch of historical json documents because those are stored in my database. But, even if that has a 100% success rate (which I expect) I'm still worried it's not actually guaranteed to be valid json.
2021-05-18 11:37:24	Kingsy	bancroft_: thanks for your help! dir() was a good thing.
2021-05-18 11:37:40	codehotter	pragmaticenigma: Sometimes I prefer theory over practice :P
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2021-05-18 11:37:56	codehotter	If both theory and practice align, you can be pretty confident
2021-05-18 11:38:02	bancroft_	Kingsy: yeah, dir and id, great little nuggets and probably my fave :)
2021-05-18 11:38:22	_habnabit	(id is _very_ rarely useful. normally better to figure out)
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2021-05-18 11:38:33	grym	gloomy_desktop: https://bpa.st/7LZQ
2021-05-18 11:38:33	_habnabit	(id is _very_ rarely useful. normally better to leave it)
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2021-05-18 11:38:43	SnoopJ	id -1
2021-05-18 11:40:25	graingert	the stdlib uses it for `id(x) == id(y)` because x is y is too fast
2021-05-18 11:40:38	_habnabit	graingert, .. too fast?
2021-05-18 11:40:42	SnoopJ	oh wait, id, not is
2021-05-18 11:40:47	SnoopJ	id +1, is -1 :v
2021-05-18 11:40:50	graingert	Yep goes too fast
2021-05-18 11:41:02	_habnabit	SnoopJ, how can one be better than the other
2021-05-18 11:41:12	graingert	it's about the same speed on cPython but makes pypy much much faster
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2021-05-18 11:41:56	graingert	So the more they use `id(x) == id(y)` the faster cPython appears to be
2021-05-18 11:42:01	graingert	Relative to pypy
2021-05-18 11:42:17	_habnabit	graingert, oh, that penalty
2021-05-18 11:42:36	SnoopJ	_habnabit, coupling to a bad programming language (English)
2021-05-18 11:42:48	_habnabit	SnoopJ, true
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2021-05-18 11:43:21	gloomy_desktop	And the python devs don't want cpython to be faster? Can't figure out if you're being sarcastic or if I'm missing something :D
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2021-05-18 11:43:39	graingert	gloomy_desktop: no it's about the same speed on cPython
2021-05-18 11:43:46	graingert	But faster on pupyy
2021-05-18 11:43:50	graingert	pypy*
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2021-05-18 11:44:45	gloomy_desktop	oh, like that. makes sense
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2021-05-18 11:53:25	neilthereildeil	hey guys
2021-05-18 11:53:29	grym	sup
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2021-05-18 11:53:40	neilthereildeil	im getting what appears to be a deadlock issue
2021-05-18 11:53:47	neilthereildeil	in a multiprocessing application
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2021-05-18 11:54:05	neilthereildeil	when i have each child process writing to stdout/stderr
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2021-05-18 11:54:27	neilthereildeil	and that stdout/stderr is being forwarded to a log file by supervisorctl
2021-05-18 11:54:31	neilthereildeil	on a linux machine
2021-05-18 11:54:45	neilthereildeil	somoene else is having the same error as me: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54766479/logging-multithreading-deadlock-in-python
2021-05-18 11:54:55	neilthereildeil	this is when logging from a multiprocess application
2021-05-18 11:55:02	neilthereildeil	but i wanted todiscuss the issue with you all
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2021-05-18 11:55:53	neilthereildeil	i call subprocess.Popen(myArgArray,                 stdout=subprocess.PIPE,                stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
2021-05-18 11:56:16	pragmaticenigma	neilthereildeil: Please don't use the enter key as punctuation
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2021-05-18 11:56:33	neilthereildeil	but the python 2.7 docs dont strictly say i risk deadlock when i call Poepn construct
2021-05-18 11:56:39	supakeen	You risk a deadlock, yes.
2021-05-18 11:56:56	neilthereildeil	it says i only risk deadlock for call and check_call
2021-05-18 11:56:59	_habnabit	neilthereildeil, can you tell us when your question is done?
2021-05-18 11:57:00	neilthereildeil	https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.Popen
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2021-05-18 11:57:27	neilthereildeil	sp my question is: why am i impacted if i didnt call either of those 2 APIs?
2021-05-18 11:57:27	pragmaticenigma	neilthereildeil: Python 2.7 is EOL ... not sure why you're trying to develop with that
2021-05-18 11:57:38	neilthereildeil	so* my question is
2021-05-18 11:58:03	_habnabit	neilthereildeil, Popen is similarly at risk
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2021-05-18 11:58:24	grym	neilthereildeil: iirc call and check_call are just wrappers for POpen anyway
2021-05-18 11:58:34	neilthereildeil	ah
2021-05-18 11:58:45	supakeen	They are but the deadlock is related to communicatie.
2021-05-18 11:58:49	pragmaticenigma	neilthereildeil: They found a solution in that stack overflow, with an explination
2021-05-18 11:58:53	neilthereildeil	i feel like the docs should warn for Popen also in that case
2021-05-18 11:59:01	supakeen	While call/check_call likely just close the relevant fds.
2021-05-18 11:59:37	pragmaticenigma	neilthereildeil: The documentation says don't do it:
2021-05-18 11:59:37	pragmaticenigma	Note
2021-05-18 11:59:37	pragmaticenigma	Do not use stdout=PIPE or stderr=PIPE with this function as that can deadlock based on the child process output volume. Use Popen with the communicate() method when you need pipes.
2021-05-18 11:59:38	grym	neilthereildeil: perhaps, but 2.7 docs won't get updated
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2021-05-18 11:59:48	pragmaticenigma	neilthereildeil: https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html#using-the-subprocess-module
2021-05-18 11:59:56	supakeen	And the deadlock the documentation refers to is specifically about reading from a process' stdout/stderr, you might be blocking on a read from it while you would need to send data for it to generate output again, etc.
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2021-05-18 12:00:57	neilthereildeil	supakeen: ahh so the deadlock is because its hald duplex communication in these pipes? i can either read OR write??
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2021-05-18 12:01:11	neilthereildeil	im still trying to understand the deadlock
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2021-05-18 12:01:34	supakeen	You can do both but it's easy to get into the situation where you're reading but no new data is coming, nor is the subprocess exiting and then you're stuck.
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2021-05-18 12:03:56	neilthereildeil	so after every call to Popen, i call communicate. isnt that the correct way to do it?
2021-05-18 12:04:13	neilthereildeil	the warning says "Use Popen with the communicate() method when you need pipes."
2021-05-18 12:04:27	neilthereildeil	this is what i do: outData, errData = process.communicate(None)
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2021-05-18 12:05:41	supakeen	Yes, it will hang there forever if the subprocess doesn't exit.
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2021-05-18 12:06:25	supakeen	In Python 3 a `timeout` argument was added to Popen so you can exit if it takes too long.
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2021-05-18 12:07:31	neilthereildeil	ohh interesting
2021-05-18 12:07:42	neilthereildeil	and i DO see a lot of these subprocesses "hanging" around
2021-05-18 12:08:28	supakeen	In general it's also a bad plan to be stuck on an unmaintained version of Python that is a decade or two old, if there's any bugs they're more likely to still be in there.
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2021-05-18 12:09:15	neilthereildeil	and i see the shild process stuck at: #0  0x00007f4bff842819 in __GI___poll (fds=0x7f4bf8001020, nfds=2, timeout=-1) at ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/poll.c:29
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2021-05-18 12:09:28	neilthereildeil	this looks like file descriptor IO
2021-05-18 12:09:49	SnoopJ	neilthereildeil, the documentation for communicate() says "Wait for process to terminate," so it does that.
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2021-05-18 12:09:55	neilthereildeil	prolly stdout or stderr
2021-05-18 12:10:13	neilthereildeil	so i think thats my issue
2021-05-18 12:10:15	neilthereildeil	cool
2021-05-18 12:10:21	supakeen	if you're not reading from those (or not fast enough) the process can hang as write will start blocking
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2021-05-18 12:11:56	neilthereildeil	so i understand the problem, but how can i fix it in python 2.7?
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2021-05-18 12:12:24	supakeen	the same as in any language, read, read regularly, read with a timeout in case you might need to send data as well
2021-05-18 12:12:30	supakeen	or close stdout/stderr
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2021-05-18 12:14:51	SnoopJ	agreed, don't use communicate() if you don't want the wait-until-process-terminates behavior that it implies in old Python
2021-05-18 12:15:04	grawity	...wait, it *doesn't* imply that in new python?
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2021-05-18 12:15:34	supakeen	'new' python has a timeout argument to return from communicate 'early' :)
2021-05-18 12:16:17	neilthereildeil	with close_fds "all file descriptors except 0, 1 and 2 will be closed"
2021-05-18 12:16:25	neilthereildeil	so i dont think close_fds is going to work
2021-05-18 12:17:25	supakeen	no
2021-05-18 12:17:55	supakeen	that's a different thing, after the process starts you can close it's stdin/stdout/stderr with say process.stdin.close()
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2021-05-18 12:18:40	SnoopJ	grawity, it does, but only if you didn't pass timeout
2021-05-18 12:19:05	neilthereildeil	supakeen: so ur saying from the parent, manually close the STD fds of the child after launching the child process?
2021-05-18 12:19:23	DemonOne	Hello.  Is there a blessed json schema library?
2021-05-18 12:19:25	supakeen	yes, that's what i said
2021-05-18 12:19:30	SnoopJ	neilthereildeil, if the child is waiting for stdin to be closed, then yea, do it that way
2021-05-18 12:19:47	SnoopJ	DemonOne, I've had good success with https://pypi.org/project/jsonschema/
2021-05-18 12:19:54	neilthereildeil	also FYI, i am not redirecting STDIN for the child processes. only STDOUT and STDERR
2021-05-18 12:20:05	supakeen	the `close_fds` argument is because a fork+exec inherits the open file descriptors from the previous process
2021-05-18 12:20:24	neilthereildeil	so i dont see why this would deadlock due to not getting input to execute on...
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2021-05-18 12:20:51	supakeen	it's not it's likely because you're not (properly) reading the data the child process is producing and so it fills up its buffer and its write calls start blocking making it never exit
2021-05-18 12:21:03	supakeen	for whatever raisin
2021-05-18 12:21:17	DemonOne	SnoopJ thanks
2021-05-18 12:21:18	supakeen	anyways -> dinner good luck :)
2021-05-18 12:21:21	SnoopJ	DemonOne, although if you're generating a JSONSchema description of a data model in your code, I recommend taking a look at Pydantic, it can render JSONSchema
2021-05-18 12:21:54	neilthereildeil	and now that im thinking about it more, the child processes are basically system info commands that dont take stdin input. they are just passed the necessary arguments at child process launch time
2021-05-18 12:22:03	SnoopJ	although Pydantic *only* does draft-7 I think
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2021-05-18 12:22:28	DemonOne	SnoopJ, I want to be able to verify and also access data using queries.
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2021-05-18 12:22:34	neilthereildeil	thanks for your help supakeen
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2021-05-18 12:23:40	neilthereildeil	so was supakeen implying that rather than a deadlock on waiting for stdin input, my child processes are just filling up the output buffers and simply increasing the buffer sizes would solve the issue?
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2021-05-18 12:25:17	SnoopJ	DemonOne, not really sure how to interpret that in the context of JSONSchema, but hopefully I've pointed you in the direction of some tools that can be useful.
2021-05-18 12:27:04	DemonOne	SnoopJ, there's a library for queries... I just wanted to know if there was a blessed or curated library
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2021-05-18 12:28:36	 *	SnoopJ doesn't know what "queries" means in the absence of a specific context
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2021-05-18 12:30:13	mikeike2	i have return [f for f in self._files if type(f) == type] where _files is a list of objects of type PDFFile and type=PDFFile, and type(f) throws TypeError: 'PDFFile' object is not subscriptable, but print(f) prints <CommonFiles.PDFFile object at 0x0000028B82F7DB20>
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2021-05-18 12:30:15	mikeike2	what am i missing here?
2021-05-18 12:30:30	DemonOne	SnoopJ, I mean something like xpath
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2021-05-18 12:31:31	grawity	mikeike2: are you accidentally overwriting the builtin 'type' function with your custom 'type' variable, and then basically calling "PDFFile(f) == PDFFile"?
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2021-05-18 12:32:09	SnoopJ	DemonOne, can you describe a typical query and the data it is over, and how those relate to JSONSchema?
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2021-05-18 12:32:13	mikeike2	that was it. thanks grawity
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2021-05-18 12:34:14	DemonOne	SnoopJ, I thought it would be reasonable for a library providing schema validation to also support fetching keys/data using an x path like query
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2021-05-18 12:38:26	SnoopJ	DemonOne, the library `glom` does something similar to that, but it does not itself support jsonschema, it has its own (pretty complex) specification language
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2021-05-18 12:39:23	SnoopJ	you could definitely use it alongside a library that provides the validation part
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2021-05-18 12:46:55	mikeike2	can i iterate over attributes of an object? (i need to "merge" two objects of the same type, like new.name = o1.name + o2.name; and new.size = o1.size + o2.size, etc.
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2021-05-18 12:48:27	ammar2	is the object of a class you created?
2021-05-18 12:48:37	grym	mikeike2: inspect.getmembers, possibly.
2021-05-18 12:48:56	mikeike2	ammar2 yes, but there's multiple types that the function may receive
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2021-05-18 12:49:10	mikeike2	grym i'll check. i was intuitively thinking of object.__dict__
2021-05-18 12:49:17	ammar2	mikeike2: all types that you control?
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2021-05-18 12:49:25	mikeike2	ammar2 im not sure what you mean?
2021-05-18 12:49:26	SnoopJ	inspect.getmembers was my first thought as well, but you'll likely have to filter dunders (and any other unwanted fields)
2021-05-18 12:49:54	grym	mikeike2: i'd probably prefer a classmethod on the class though. like `Foo.merge(foo1, foo2)` which returns a new fooinstasnce
2021-05-18 12:49:56	ammar2	like the types of objects that the merge function receives, are they all classes that you are writing?
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2021-05-18 12:50:17	SnoopJ	if it's an attrs class or dataclass, attr.fields() and dataclasses.fields() would be useful (but it sounds like it's more generic than that)
2021-05-18 12:50:24	ammar2	or can someone just hand you a random pair of objects and ask you to merge them
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2021-05-18 12:51:02	mikeike2	ammar2 i control all of them. both instances are of the same type though.
2021-05-18 12:51:11	grym	yeah, the attrs exit ramp is Foo(**{**attrs.asdict(foo1),**attrs.asdict(foo2)}) or something along those lines
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2021-05-18 12:51:14	grym	er, no
2021-05-18 12:51:28	grym	sorry that's not the same at all, heh heh
2021-05-18 12:51:44	grym	must be lunchtime
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2021-05-18 12:54:19	mikeike2	i think i'll go with object.__dict__, seems rather simple for this need
2021-05-18 12:54:38	SnoopJ	as long as your objects have it, it may be fine
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2021-05-18 12:54:58	mikeike2	is there any reason why they shouldnt have it?
2021-05-18 12:55:04	SnoopJ	__slots__, mostly
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2021-05-18 12:57:03	ammar2	and dynamic properties
2021-05-18 12:57:38	ammar2	err dynamic properties -> getattr powered fields
2021-05-18 12:57:53	ammar2	but since you control the types this shouldn't be much of a concern
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2021-05-18 13:00:13	mikeike2	one more thing please, when i have x = attrname, how can i access object.attrname by using x? object.x obviously looks for "x" and not for the value of x
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2021-05-18 13:01:36	amo	getattr?
2021-05-18 13:01:43	ammar2	getattr(object, x)
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2021-05-18 13:02:23	mikeike2	thanks!
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2021-05-18 13:05:42	SnoopJ	n.b. that you can specify a default value for that, too
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2021-05-18 13:16:46	Laibsch	Would somebody kindly enlighten me as to what the !r is for in https://github.com/kdeldycke/mail-deduplicate/blob/f423b414c400d21e338edf09bf904d39697fc7b8/mail_deduplicate/deduplicate.py#L370 ?
2021-05-18 13:17:26	Laibsch	It looks some kind of modifier to the mail object
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2021-05-18 13:19:29	Laibsch	"mail" is not a dictionary there or is it?  I'm wondering because of the curly braces around the object name mail.
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2021-05-18 13:24:07	amo	Laibsch, https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatspec
2021-05-18 13:24:31	Laibsch	amo: thank you very much
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2021-05-18 13:25:35	Bombo	hi
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2021-05-18 13:25:41	amo	hi
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2021-05-18 13:27:27	Bombo	i'm using smtplib to send a mail to a server via starttls, but it just has old tls 1.0/ssl2/3 can i use smtplib to send to old protocols? how do i allow old deprecated stuff
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2021-05-18 13:32:12	Laibsch	amo: I'm sorry but I don't see how the link you gave answers the question about what the !r does in https://github.com/kdeldycke/mail-deduplicate/blob/f423b414c400d21e338edf09bf904d39697fc7b8/mail_deduplicate/deduplicate.py#L370  May I kindly ask for you to elaborate a bit more?
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2021-05-18 13:37:27	philipp64_	hi. dumb question… I have a bytes of hex digits (even number) and I want to unpack it to a binary value… I can’t find a function that does this directly.  oddly, bytes.fromhex() only takes strings, not bytes…
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2021-05-18 13:39:12	gpp	i have the following project structure https://bpa.st/FYII4IZTINYFDFYBCY3P2AJ6WI - im struggling to figure out how to do `from module.submodule import *`
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2021-05-18 13:39:57	grym	gpp: star imports are not a good idea
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2021-05-18 13:40:42	grym	gpp: so you would `from pkg.module.submodule.class import ClassObject`, e.g.
2021-05-18 13:40:51	gpp	grym: sure but i don't want to do `from module.submodule import ClassA` 10+ times, as in the submodule directory there will be multiple files
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2021-05-18 13:41:24	gpp	so in main.py I'd ideally like to import everything under `submodule` in one line
2021-05-18 13:41:39	grym	gpp: `from pkg.module.submodule.class import (ClassObject, ClassA, ClassB)` then, or `import pkg.module.submodule.class; class.ClassA, class.ClassB, ...
2021-05-18 13:42:18	gpp	but how do I have submodule dynamically import all files contained within? That's where I'm struggling
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2021-05-18 13:43:41	gpp	I've also tried using pkgutil and walking all files in submodule, then importing them (in the __init__.py) but I still can't seem to access them from root/main.py
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2021-05-18 13:44:32	corvax	when you import, you bring the other package into scope of the current file, it doesn't necessarily reload it
2021-05-18 13:45:03	corvax	so if another file in a project imported a specific package, then another file does the same.. it's only loaded once
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2021-05-18 13:48:42	gpp	better example of how i currently have it structured & would like it to work https://bpa.st/GXGTUIUIHADT5DBHVMPZ47S344
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2021-05-18 13:52:33	grym	gpp: example.py will need to import things from `pkg.module.etc` not `module.etc`
2021-05-18 13:52:55	gpp	grym: that's a typo
2021-05-18 13:53:15	gpp	pkg.module.etc is how it is
2021-05-18 13:54:22	grym	gpp: ok.  the thing i know that does kind of what you want is https://gather.rtfd.org/, but every time i think "i want to write a plugin system" i'm always wrong
2021-05-18 13:54:41	grym	so i'm not amazingly fond of this idea
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2021-05-18 13:55:19	grym	gpp: codebases that don't know what their own imports are until runtime sketch me out
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2021-05-18 13:56:03	gpp	Agreed. The idea here however is that that sketchiness is only limited to that submodule
2021-05-18 13:56:16	gpp	Will take a look at gather though
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2021-05-18 13:56:50	SnoopJ	pluggy is also worth looking at (it's what powers pytest's plugin system)
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2021-05-18 14:01:08	raek	Yhg1s: SnoopJ: thanks for the tips regarding immutability
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2021-05-18 14:02:28	raek	right now I'm making an extension that wraps some C code (so that I can write interesting tests in a higher level language)
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2021-05-18 14:03:17	raek	let's say the types are called "Driver" and "Pin". the Driver constructor takes two pins and the pins it uses will never change during its lifetime
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2021-05-18 14:04:02	raek	both Driver and Pin have C code with init functions. the C Driver init function accepts C Pin pointers
2021-05-18 14:04:46	raek	I'm attempting now to implement "Driver" as an extension type that is immutable. cause maybe that would simplify things?
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2021-05-18 14:05:17	raek	I'm considering implementing tp_new (and do the whole initialization there) and tp_dealloc
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2021-05-18 14:06:18	SnoopJ	ideally when wrapping you don't have to think about Python.h at all because you use something (like CFFI) that insulates you from much of that detail
2021-05-18 14:06:19	raek	since it is immutable, I don't need to implement GC via tp_traverse and tp_clear, right? if this object is a part of an cyclic isolate, then the interpreter will break up one of the other references in the cycle
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2021-05-18 14:07:29	raek	I also used this as an excuse to learn the extension API, but yeah, one of the FFI libraries is potentially a better fit
2021-05-18 14:07:46	graingert	Hpy or whathaveyou
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2021-05-18 14:08:15	ammar2	cffi is the best choice imo
2021-05-18 14:08:19	raek	I'm interesting in doing (manual) dependency injection
2021-05-18 14:09:41	amo	Laibsch, did you figure it out? sorry, i was afk
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2021-05-18 14:10:49	Laibsch	amo: np.  Sorry, no idea, I'm still struggling.
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2021-05-18 14:11:20	raek	python code calling C code is simple to do. C calling a callback implemented in python likewise.
2021-05-18 14:11:37	amo	Laibsch, f"" is called an f-string, which allows to insert and format a variable like f"{variable}"
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2021-05-18 14:12:06	amo	Laibsch, what i gave you is the domain specific language that is used to format those variables when they are inserted via {}
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2021-05-18 14:12:20	raek	but how about C code (statically) calling a function declared in a header file? could that be implemented in python some way?
2021-05-18 14:12:48	ammar2	raek: cffi can do that
2021-05-18 14:12:50	raek	basically implement a python function and export it to the C code using the dynamic loader
2021-05-18 14:12:53	amo	Laibsch, if you search the page for '!r' you'll notice that this line:
2021-05-18 14:12:53	amo	Three conversion flags are currently supported: '!s' which calls str() on the value, '!r' which calls repr() and '!a' which calls ascii().
2021-05-18 14:13:05	ammar2	https://cffi.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using.html#extern-python-new-style-callbacks
2021-05-18 14:13:20	ammar2	it's incredibly awesome
2021-05-18 14:13:35	raek	ammar2: hmm! I will check it out!
2021-05-18 14:13:57	amo	Laibsch, which means that f"Rejecting {mail!r}: {expt.args[0]}" inserts the variable called "mail" by calling repr(mail) first
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2021-05-18 14:14:24	amo	it also inserts expt.args[0]
2021-05-18 14:14:28	w1kl4s	i have two lists of objects, and objects in those 2 lists have one common attribute,  and then they have bunch of other attributes, and i wanted to merge those 2 lists into one - something like x[0] = Foo and y[0] = Bar, Foo has attributes a,b,c and Bar has a,d,e and i want z[0] = FooBar with attributes a,b,c,d
2021-05-18 14:14:35	w1kl4s	how could i do that?
2021-05-18 14:14:56	amo	Laibsch, clear now?
2021-05-18 14:15:11	grym	w1kl4s: are your objects sortable
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2021-05-18 14:15:29	w1kl4s	i thought about deserializing both into dicts with value of a as key and merging them that way, but that sounds kinda complicated and i would have to deserialize, match and serialize again
2021-05-18 14:15:39	w1kl4s	grym more or less, a is an UUID value
2021-05-18 14:15:44	w1kl4s	so i guess it's sortable
2021-05-18 14:15:47	Laibsch	amo: thanks, that should give me some more info to chew on and I suspect I might be able to figure it out indeed.  Gotta go for 20 minutes.  bbl.
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2021-05-18 14:15:55	grym	w1kl4s: i mean, does sorted() work on a list of them
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2021-05-18 14:16:27	w1kl4s	gonna check, i dunno what it would sort by tho
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2021-05-18 14:19:45	LuxuryMode	What are some great resources (books, articles, videos, etc) on how to write great unit tests? Also, anyone know of an open-source project with great examples of unit testing?
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2021-05-18 14:22:10	w1kl4s	grym nah, it doesn't
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2021-05-18 14:22:24	w1kl4s	guess it makes sense, it has nothing to sort by
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2021-05-18 14:22:36	grym	you could make it have something to sort by
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2021-05-18 14:23:37	w1kl4s	yeah, but that would mean deserializing, comparing and serializing again, which would kind of do the same as using dict for that
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2021-05-18 14:24:06	SnoopJ	LuxuryMode, this is a good talk about testing that touches on some of that, but isn't really about unit testing specifically: https://nedbatchelder.com/text/test3.html
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2021-05-18 14:24:33	LuxuryMode	Thanks SnoopJ
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2021-05-18 14:29:48	Laibsch	amo: yes, I understand now.  thank you.  Now I need to figure out how to manipulate the string returned by repr().
2021-05-18 14:30:13	raek	"CFFI implements this by defining my_callback as a static C function, written after the set_source() code."
2021-05-18 14:30:42	raek	ammar2: do you know if it is possible to make CFFI define it as a non-static function? (so that other code can just link to it)
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2021-05-18 14:31:22	ammar2	raek: yup yup, it's in the next section on that page
2021-05-18 14:31:23	ammar2	https://cffi.readthedocs.io/en/latest/using.html#extern-python-c
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2021-05-18 14:31:26	LuxuryMode	SnoopJ: pretty basic, but good foundational stuff
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2021-05-18 14:32:11	SnoopJ	LuxuryMode, I found his remarks on testing as a concept to be very helpful in a "mental model" organizational way
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2021-05-18 14:32:33	SnoopJ	particularly the emphasis on testing being almost like another language
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2021-05-18 14:33:54	raek	ammar2: ah!
2021-05-18 14:34:01	raek	ammar2: thanks a lot!
2021-05-18 14:34:31	nacelle	some concepts in testing are hard to get until you actually need them -and- make use of them
2021-05-18 14:34:51	nacelle	imo anyways, and i've seen several people go through the same thing so I think I'm onto something there
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2021-05-18 14:36:22	SnoopJ	I agree with that, it's a big part of why I find pytest's "gradual" nature very appealing
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2021-05-18 14:38:45	janemba	hello
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2021-05-18 14:39:45	janemba	while using "--record files.txt" switch for my setup.py the file "files.txt" is not created. Any idea about what could be the cause ?
2021-05-18 14:39:49	Laibsch	Am I correct to think that dict.iteritems is python2-only code and thus "for mail_id, mail in box.iteritems():" will only work correctly in python2?
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2021-05-18 14:39:59	Laibsch	https://github.com/kdeldycke/mail-deduplicate/blob/f423b414c400d21e338edf09bf904d39697fc7b8/mail_deduplicate/deduplicate.py#L361
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2021-05-18 14:43:51	janemba	fixed typo
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2021-05-18 14:47:17	raek	Laibsch: yes. python3 -c "{}.iteritems()" => AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'iteritems'
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2021-05-18 14:49:22	Laibsch	raek: thanks
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2021-05-18 15:10:04	SnoopJ	most of the explicitly-lazy things were removed, you usually get that by default in modern Python
2021-05-18 15:11:40	Tuor	Hi, this is my echo server: https://bpa.st/TN7Q and I could start it once, but now it doesn't start anymore. I get this error "ConnectionRefusedError: [Errno 111] Connection refused" on line 10 "sock.connect(server_address)". What could be the reason? Running on Fedora 33.
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2021-05-18 15:20:37	Tuor	I started the wron file. I do have to start the server before the client.
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2021-05-18 15:29:00	ELFrederich	anyone know if it is possible with poetry to override PyPI using an environment variable and not editing pyproject.toml?  Like how with pip you can use PIP_INDEX_URL
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2021-05-18 15:44:03	Ox4	greetings everyone. I have a list of tuples -> lt = [[(15, 10.05), (15, 80.3), (25, 53.7), (25, 24.4), (35, 70.9), (35, 8.5)]. Is there a short and simple way to sum second element of two tuples if the first element are equal?
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2021-05-18 15:48:24	melkor	90.35 and  78.1 and 79.4
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2021-05-18 15:49:19	melkor	What sort of output would you like? A map, another list?
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2021-05-18 15:51:15	bjs	Ox4: there are more than 2 tuples there, what did you want the result to be?
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2021-05-18 15:52:07	Ox4	melkor: I need another list of tuples, but with the result of sum in addition -> new_lt = [(15, 10.5), (15, 80.3), (15, 90.8), (25, 53.7), (25, 24.4), (25, 78.1), ...]
2021-05-18 15:52:22	Ox4	bjs: ^^^
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2021-05-18 15:54:00	rendar	if i have z=(1,2) i can do a,b=z   but what about z=(1,) ? i can't do a=z, otherwise i still get a tuple, a=z[0] is the way?
2021-05-18 15:54:26	bjs	rendar: `a, = z`  or I prefer `[a, b] = z` and `[a] = z`
2021-05-18 15:54:33	bjs	rendar: `a = z[0]` is also perfectly acceptable.
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2021-05-18 15:55:13	bjs	Ox4: Hmm,  a list of tuples is an awkward structure to use here, is it always 2 tuples followed by the sum of the two things?  what if the first elements aren't equal?  what if there are 3 elements in a row with the same first element?
2021-05-18 15:55:35	rendar	bjs: hm, i see, i wonder why `a,=z` works, but `a,_=z` doesn't
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2021-05-18 15:55:47	bjs	rendar: because one is trying to unpack one value, and the other two
2021-05-18 15:55:51	bjs	but there aren't 2 things in z?
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2021-05-18 15:56:10	rendar	uhm, ok
2021-05-18 15:56:13	bjs	rendar: `(a,) = z` also works btw
2021-05-18 15:56:15	bjs	rendar: uhm?
2021-05-18 15:56:16	rendar	`a,` unpacks 1 thing?
2021-05-18 15:56:20	bjs	rendar: yes
2021-05-18 15:56:34	bjs	rendar: `a, = ...` and `[a] = ...` and `(a,) = ...` are all the same
2021-05-18 15:57:37	rendar	i can't get `[a]=z` why that should be equal to `a=z[0]`
2021-05-18 15:57:43	bjs	rendar: it's not
2021-05-18 15:57:47	Ox4	bjs: there are always even amount of elements. The first elements should be equal. What structure do you propose then?
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2021-05-18 15:58:20	bjs	rendar: well it kind of is
2021-05-18 15:58:37	bjs	rendar: `[a,b,c] = z` unpacks z into a, b and c
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2021-05-18 15:58:40	rendar	bjs: where i can learn more about these notations?
2021-05-18 15:58:45	bjs	rendar: docs.python.org/
2021-05-18 15:58:45	vlt	Ox4: I'd start with `d = {}; for k, v in lt: d[k] = d.setdefault(k, 0) + v`
2021-05-18 15:59:09	bjs	Ox4: well it's kind of an odd structure, and i'm unsure where it came from or what it represents so it's hard to say what structure I would use
2021-05-18 15:59:21	rendar	bjs: really? i didn't know that! :) i was asking what section of the enormous docs should i check?
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2021-05-18 15:59:55	bjs	rendar: I'm not sure, but if I were to guess it'd be under the Language Reference (since it's part of the language)
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2021-05-18 16:00:04	bjs	rendar: it's in the assignment statement, so I'd look there
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2021-05-18 16:01:00	rendar	ok
2021-05-18 16:01:43	bjs	rendar: "Assignment of an object to a target list, optionally enclosed in parentheses or square brackets [...]  The object must be an iterable with the same number of items as there are targets in the target list, and the items are assigned, from left to right, to the corresponding targets. [...]"  for a start
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2021-05-18 16:02:05	rendar	ok
2021-05-18 16:02:20	melkor	vlt: setdefault? What about d.get(k, 0)?
2021-05-18 16:02:24	rendar	bjs: i'm not accustomed to have a list in the left side of the assignment
2021-05-18 16:02:52	bjs	rendar: it's no different to putting a tuple there, like `a, b = z`
2021-05-18 16:02:54	vlt	melkor: right, d.get() should be enough here :D
2021-05-18 16:03:01	vlt	Ox4: ^
2021-05-18 16:03:20	bjs	rendar: indeed `a, b = z` and `(a, b) = z` and `[a, b] = z` are all the same, Python just ignores the brackets.
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2021-05-18 16:03:35	rendar	bjs: oh! ok, now i see it
2021-05-18 16:03:39	Ox4	vlt: thanks
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2021-05-18 16:04:00	melkor	Ox4: if you need tuples afterwards you can get them from the dictionary pretty simply.
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2021-05-18 16:05:58	Ox4	melkor: yep. thanks
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2021-05-18 16:09:13	rendar	this `min([x for x, _ in data])` gets me the minimum x in a list of (x,y) tuples, but what about i want to generalize this for (x,y) (x,y,t) (x,y,t,w) ?
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2021-05-18 16:09:36	bjs	rendar: min(t[0] for t in data)
2021-05-18 16:09:45	rendar	and t[1] for y, ok
2021-05-18 16:09:47	amo	or you use a key=lambda
2021-05-18 16:10:02	bjs	rendar: or min(x for x, *ys in data)
2021-05-18 16:10:09	rendar	amo: huh? how?
2021-05-18 16:10:09	bjs	rendar: although I prefer the version with t[0] here
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2021-05-18 16:10:16	amo	min takes key
2021-05-18 16:10:34	bjs	rendar: like min(data, key=operator.itemgetter(0))  # this will give you the (x, y) tuple not just the x.
2021-05-18 16:11:12	rendar	oh
2021-05-18 16:11:12	amo	jup
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2021-05-18 16:12:04	amo	but it might get a little convoluted with a comprehension AND a lambda
2021-05-18 16:12:18	amo	depends on the rest of the code, i guess
2021-05-18 16:12:32	bjs	None of the above suggestions involved writing a lambda at all :)
2021-05-18 16:12:40	amo	itemgetter
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2021-05-18 16:12:44	amo	whatever ;)
2021-05-18 16:13:13	amo	you know what i mean
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2021-05-18 16:15:14	amo	apropos operator module, why are there distinctions between lt(a, b) and __lt__(a,b) etc?
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2021-05-18 16:15:50	bjs	amo: for convenience and style,  they refer to the same thing
2021-05-18 16:16:05	bjs	lt = __lt__ = def lt(x,y): return x < y
2021-05-18 16:16:39	amo	ok.. looks strange
2021-05-18 16:16:55	bjs	amo: some people will prefer operator.lt,  some people may prefer the more explicit operator.__lt__
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2021-05-18 16:17:37	amo	inv, invert, __inv__ and __invert__ :s
2021-05-18 16:17:52	bjs	amo: I think it's a mistake, because __lt__(x,y) would suggest (to me) it calls type(x).__lt__(x, y)
2021-05-18 16:17:55	bjs	amo: yes, all the same
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2021-05-18 16:18:41	amo	that just doesn't feel right
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2021-05-18 16:19:37	amo	are those alternatives new? i don't think i've seen them before
2021-05-18 16:20:00	bjs	amo: I don't think so
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2021-05-18 16:20:55	SnoopJ	huh, I can't recall if I knew that operator had the dunder spellings. gross :)
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2021-05-18 16:21:15	amo	oh, and *that* is interesting: https://docs.python.org/3/library/operator.html#operator.itemgetter
2021-05-18 16:21:23	amo	operator.itemgetter(*items)
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2021-05-18 16:21:35	amo	the heck?
2021-05-18 16:21:50	SnoopJ	it can get more than one item
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2021-05-18 16:22:13	SnoopJ	"After g = itemgetter(2, 5, 3), the call g(r) returns (r[2], r[5], r[3])"
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2021-05-18 16:22:45	amo	definitely haven't seen that before either
2021-05-18 16:23:08	bjs	amo: it seems operator.lt and __lt__ were added in 2.2, and inv/etc go back to at least 2.0 https://docs.python.org/2.0/lib/module-operator.html
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2021-05-18 16:25:10	amo	then i just haven't read the docs on operator as careful before, i guess.. i admit, it's one of the corners i rarely visit
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2021-05-18 17:25:38	amo	i was just experimenting with alternatives to passing strings to parametrize internal function implementations
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2021-05-18 17:25:50	amo	i came up with this absurdity
2021-05-18 17:25:51	amo	https://bpa.st/VMKQ
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2021-05-18 17:26:24	amo	but it's kind of hard to get to the internal enum from the outside xD
2021-05-18 17:26:35	doc|home	you're not right :)
2021-05-18 17:26:50	amo	not right?
2021-05-18 17:27:02	doc|home	in the head :)
2021-05-18 17:27:06	amo	hahahaha
2021-05-18 17:27:14	amo	true
2021-05-18 17:28:09	rcm888	who knows how to write servers?
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2021-05-18 17:28:42	SnoopJ	rcm888, it's a common topic here, many members of this community write servers
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2021-05-18 17:29:46	rcm888	SnoopJ: I want to make basic server with binary data transfer and secure transport.
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2021-05-18 17:30:01	habnabit_	rcm888, so you're looking for a python httpd?
2021-05-18 17:30:14	NoImNotNineVolt	httpd doesn't scream "binary" to me
2021-05-18 17:30:19	rcm888	habnabit_: is it binary?
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2021-05-18 17:30:34	habnabit_	rcm888, aside from "yes, everything is binary".. yes
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2021-05-18 17:31:07	NoImNotNineVolt	why does everyone insist in shoehorning things that have nothing to do with hypertext into http?
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2021-05-18 17:31:27	rcm888	habnabit_: I don't need any framework or html
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2021-05-18 17:31:34	habnabit_	because the tooling for http is so, so much better than for anything else
2021-05-18 17:31:49	habnabit_	rcm888, that's fine
2021-05-18 17:31:53	NoImNotNineVolt	isn't it possible that you only think that because your primary use case is the transfer of hypertext?
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2021-05-18 17:32:10	habnabit_	NoImNotNineVolt, i can't remember the last time i sent html over http
2021-05-18 17:32:11	doc|home	rcm888: this for a real project or pet project?
2021-05-18 17:32:21	NoImNotNineVolt	fair enough.
2021-05-18 17:32:25	NoImNotNineVolt	a lot of people do web stuff.
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2021-05-18 17:32:34	NoImNotNineVolt	i feel that it biases them.
2021-05-18 17:32:52	habnabit_	NoImNotNineVolt, what protocol would you suggest in its place?
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2021-05-18 17:33:31	NoImNotNineVolt	i'd ask more questions before making a suggestion. but at this point, even sftp seems more fitting than http[s].
2021-05-18 17:33:32	rcm888	doc|home: of course real project
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2021-05-18 17:33:55	doc|home	rcm888: then I'd just use something that exists instead of trying to develop something new
2021-05-18 17:34:42	rcm888	doc|home: what does exist for binary transfer multi-threaded serving?
2021-05-18 17:34:46	NoImNotNineVolt	doc|home: even if it introduces a tremendous amount of unwarranted complexity?
2021-05-18 17:35:23	doc|home	NoImNotNineVolt: why not? Even if you don't use it others have so the likelihood is it works well and is safe to use.
2021-05-18 17:35:29	doc|home	(overall)
2021-05-18 17:35:30	NoImNotNineVolt	rcm888: can you be more specific than "binary data"? like, files in a filesystem?
2021-05-18 17:35:34	rcm888	enough stupid questions. I need server!
2021-05-18 17:35:50	amo	no
2021-05-18 17:36:00	amo	those aren't stupid questions
2021-05-18 17:36:18	NoImNotNineVolt	doc|home: an explanation for why unwarranted complexity is undesirable may be beyond the scope of an irc discussion.
2021-05-18 17:36:25	habnabit_	rcm888, https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/tutorial/first-steps/
2021-05-18 17:36:44	rcm888	I am Starscream, the leader of the Decepticons and the ruture ruler of the Galaxy!
2021-05-18 17:36:59	NoImNotNineVolt	well that makes more sense, then.
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2021-05-18 17:37:59	doc|home	starscream indeed
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2021-05-18 18:20:59	SnoopJ	Is there any reason that `"key" in frame.f_locals` would be true, but `frame.f_locals["key"]` would fail with a KeyError? The type should be dict if I understand right, so I think the answer is no...
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2021-05-18 18:22:24	habnabit_	SnoopJ, is the type() dict? if so, it's not pretending to be something else
2021-05-18 18:22:37	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: which Python version?
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2021-05-18 18:23:24	SnoopJ	3.6+
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2021-05-18 18:24:23	SnoopJ	the code that has me asking: https://github.com/plasma-umass/scalene/blob/master/scalene/scalene_profiler.py#L774-L781
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2021-05-18 18:25:43	SnoopJ	There's a bug there in assuming that "cls" will *be* a class (or anything that defines __name__) when it's present, but the exception handler seems like it's being cautious about something that was already checked
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2021-05-18 18:30:56	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: well, frame.f_locals is a property, so if something is still running in that frame it could delete the local name between the two calls.
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2021-05-18 18:31:12	Yhg1s	(frame.f_locals creates a new dict from the locals each time, so caching it is a really good idea.)
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2021-05-18 18:33:06	Yhg1s	or, well, it updates a cached dict if it's still around.
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2021-05-18 18:37:07	SnoopJ	hrm, I just realized I hadn't looked at the blame, and intrigue: the `except KeyError` was introduced for what looks like the same issue that sent me here: https://github.com/plasma-umass/scalene/commit/cd5b7e7038dd89555ea1ac28e87b8b3b5d0cae12
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2021-05-18 18:40:30	Yhg1s	that just sounds like they confused AttributeError and KeyError then.
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2021-05-18 18:42:31	SnoopJ	agreed. I was thinking of submitting a patch along the lines of `cls = f.f_locals["cls"]; if inspect.isclass(cls): ...` and dropping the exception handler, but wanted to be sure I wasn't missing some nuanced case where KeyError might otherwise arise
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2021-05-18 18:43:56	Yhg1s	just use getattr(), really.
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2021-05-18 18:44:53	SnoopJ	for __name__ and test the result?
2021-05-18 18:45:29	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: yes.
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2021-05-18 18:58:30	SnoopJ	good point, thanks :)
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2021-05-18 19:02:13	SnoopJ	oh hrm, now I'm remembering why I wanted isclass(): even if it's not an error, it might be *wrong*
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2021-05-18 19:03:59	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: so might isclass, unfortunately.
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2021-05-18 19:04:50	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: I was thinking more along the lines of avoiding the error while keeping the same semantics.
2021-05-18 19:04:54	SnoopJ	Yhg1s, is `isinstance(obj, type)` going to be wrong as often as "has a __name__?"
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2021-05-18 19:05:29	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: don't know! what would the code want to do with things that behave like classes but aren't, really?
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2021-05-18 19:05:43	SnoopJ	sort of my thinking
2021-05-18 19:05:44	Yhg1s	or rather, things that are used where a class is normally expected.
2021-05-18 19:05:50	SnoopJ	ah
2021-05-18 19:06:07	SnoopJ	well, in that case: it's something people actually do; I blundered into it because of a usage in matplotlib where it's a str
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2021-05-18 19:07:36	SnoopJ	probably best to send them a patch with  light-touch getattr()
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2021-05-18 20:18:49	ranran8888	hi i can make multi thaerding but differnt script ? in same script ?
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2021-05-18 21:13:32	stats4647	Hi, is there a way to call a function from iPython and step through it via pdb ?
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2021-05-18 21:16:44	InPhase	stats4647: Why go through that effort when you can just copy and paste lines from the function?  It's already a repl.
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2021-05-18 21:18:57	stats4647	InPhase: and you also have to set the input params, which I think is too much work
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2021-05-18 22:21:35	SnoopJ	stats4647, pdb should work without any special configuration
2021-05-18 22:21:53	SnoopJ	i.e. `import pdb; pdb.set_trace()` should work in IPython
2021-05-18 22:22:09	SnoopJ	or breakpoint() if you're on 3.7+
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2021-05-18 22:24:44	stats4647	SnoopJ: thanks, I usually set the trace in the code itself, so not sure what exactly i would type at the iPython prompt
2021-05-18 22:24:55	SnoopJ	exactly the same thing
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2021-05-18 22:28:50	stats4647	that just opens the pdb) prompt, how do I then call a function func(par1, par2) ?
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2021-05-18 22:30:52	stats4647	^ SnoopJ
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2021-05-18 22:36:08	BrenBarn	stats4647: Did you look at the documentation: https://docs.python.org/3/library/pdb.html
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2021-05-18 22:37:31	SnoopJ	stats4647, you don't have a lot of options for changing the actual code being executed in a pdb session, I think you'd have to open a second Pdb session inside the first one, and I'm not even sure that's possible.
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2021-05-18 22:39:07	stats4647	BrenBarn: I hadn't in a while but I see this now - pdb.run('mymodule.test()') , is this the one ?
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2021-05-18 22:40:06	SnoopJ	stats4647, oh, it's the `debug` command (ugh)
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2021-05-18 22:40:21	stats4647	SnoopJ: I was thinking there would be a way to force the execution into a pdb session
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2021-05-18 22:41:16	stats4647	SnoopJ: tried that too, but get this - https://dpaste.org/cvZu
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2021-05-18 22:42:13	SnoopJ	stats4647, `debug` is a command you use inside pdb
2021-05-18 22:42:17	stats4647	and even if I get to a ipdb> prompt, typing n kicks me back to iPython
2021-05-18 22:43:05	stats4647	SnoopJ: ah, I'll check it out, thanks again
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2021-05-18 22:49:32	SnoopJ	stats4647, https://bpaste.net/MR7Q
2021-05-18 22:49:58	 *	SnoopJ has never actually used this
2021-05-18 22:51:12	BrenBarn	Yes the `pdb.run` is what I meant
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2021-05-18 22:56:53	Deyaa123	Hey
2021-05-18 22:57:06	Deyaa123	any one here good at patterns
2021-05-18 22:57:06	SnoopJ	the implementation of `debug` is refreshingly direct: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Lib/pdb.py#L1092-L1111
2021-05-18 22:57:08	Deyaa123	??
2021-05-18 22:57:09	Deyaa123	?
2021-05-18 22:57:15	SnoopJ	Deyaa123, let's assume "yes," ask your real question
2021-05-18 22:57:30	Deyaa123	from traducir.config import basicConfig
2021-05-18 22:57:31	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import GoogleProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:31	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import MicrosoftProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:32	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import YandexProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:32	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import DeeplProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:33	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import FrenglyProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:33	Deyaa123	def translation_factory(provider):
2021-05-18 22:57:34	Deyaa123	    if provider == "google":
2021-05-18 22:57:34	Deyaa123	        translator = GoogleProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:35	Deyaa123	    elif provider == "microsoft":
2021-05-18 22:57:35	Deyaa123	        translator = MicrosoftProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:36	Deyaa123	    elif provider == "yandex":
2021-05-18 22:57:36	Deyaa123	        translator = YandexProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:37	Deyaa123	    elif provider == "deepl":
2021-05-18 22:57:37	Deyaa123	        translator = DeeplProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:38	Deyaa123	    elif provider == "frengly":
2021-05-18 22:57:38	Deyaa123	        translator = FrenglyProvider
2021-05-18 22:57:39	Deyaa123	    else:
2021-05-18 22:57:46	SnoopJ	Deyaa123, use bpaste please: https://bpaste.net/+python+pytb
2021-05-18 22:57:53	Deyaa123	sorry
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2021-05-18 22:58:07	Deyaa123	https://bpa.st/EWCQ
2021-05-18 22:58:39	Deyaa123	i want to be able to modify providers classes attributes using Translator class
2021-05-18 22:58:46	Deyaa123	can you help me ?
2021-05-18 22:58:55	Deyaa123	i cant find the prop way
2021-05-18 22:59:16	SnoopJ	I don't understand what you're trying to do
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2021-05-18 23:00:09	Deyaa123	im trying to be able to modify providers classes attributes/variables
2021-05-18 23:00:11	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import GoogleProvider
2021-05-18 23:00:11	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import MicrosoftProvider
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2021-05-18 23:00:12	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import YandexProvider
2021-05-18 23:00:12	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import DeeplProvider
2021-05-18 23:00:13	Deyaa123	from traducir.providers import FrenglyProvider
2021-05-18 23:00:19	SnoopJ	please don't paste in this channel
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2021-05-18 23:00:23	Deyaa123	like self.key self.src
2021-05-18 23:00:28	Deyaa123	okay
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2021-05-18 23:01:14	Deyaa123	like initiating the Translator class with ref to parent - > Translator(GoogleProvider)
2021-05-18 23:01:29	Deyaa123	but i want to do it dynamicaly
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2021-05-18 23:02:14	phy1729	I think you want a dict from a string like 'google' to a provider like GoogleProvider
2021-05-18 23:02:25	p-i-	VSCode is so beautiful, but getting Python debugging working is an utter neverending nightmare.
2021-05-18 23:02:25	phy1729	and then a way to add to the dict for new providers?
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2021-05-18 23:03:28	p-i-	To this day I resort to setting print statements and early exits.
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2021-05-18 23:03:41	Deyaa123	phy1729 this is exampe of provider class https://bpa.st/JK7Q
2021-05-18 23:03:51	p-i-	Maybe time to let it go... and upgrade to pycharm
2021-05-18 23:04:04	Deyaa123	i want to be able to modify key , ... attributes from Translator
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2021-05-18 23:04:55	InPhase	p-i-: The overwhelming majority of the debugging I have done in nearly every language for 30+ years has basically been print debugging.  Debuggers are overrated.
2021-05-18 23:05:02	Deyaa123	like if i create the object like that Translator(GoogleProvider)
2021-05-18 23:05:52	p-i-	ok I got it working. But I don't like it. I don't like setting up things via IDE/GUI. It puts things in hard-to-find places. Sometimes in non-human-readable format.
2021-05-18 23:05:56	InPhase	p-i-: Debuggers put you in a little window where you stop time and look at stuff.  In print debugging you select out what to focus on in a systematic manner, and track the flow of data as a stream.
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2021-05-18 23:06:14	p-i-	And GUI related questions google poorly.
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2021-05-18 23:06:56	Deyaa123	 inherit from inside the class
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2021-05-18 23:07:31	Deyaa123	python inheritance base class attributes
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2021-05-18 23:08:03	p-i-	InPhase: yes, I prefer it. But sometimes I have to get my head around someone else's code, then it really helps to single step through it. It can be really awkward in Python when some class internally generates a datastructure and passes it out.
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2021-05-18 23:08:48	SnoopJ	I've been enjoying pudb quite a lot
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2021-05-18 23:09:55	SnoopJ	particularly the variables explorer (although I imagine it might not be as good as what pycharm offers)
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2021-05-18 23:58:25	bunbunbunbunny	hey there
2021-05-18 23:58:45	FunkyBob	hi
2021-05-18 23:58:54	bunbunbunbunny	i have a dataclass and i want some of the properties in this dataclass to default to a staticmethod on my dataclass that returns like a 'default' instance of it
2021-05-18 23:59:01	bunbunbunbunny	any particular way to do this?
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2021-05-18 23:59:52	bunbunbunbunny	it's a Tree's node ds with left and right of the same type and i want to do something like left: "Node" = self.default_node() or whatever
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2021-05-19 00:03:12	bunbunbunbunny	am i better off not using a dataclass and i guess writing my own constructor
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2021-05-19 00:22:05	SnoopJ	bunbunbunbunny, why do you want it to be a staticmethod?
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2021-05-19 00:22:18	bunbunbunbunny	well it doesn't have to be
2021-05-19 00:22:22	bunbunbunbunny	it can be a free function i guess
2021-05-19 00:22:32	bunbunbunbunny	but can you set default properties on dataclasses to a free function / staticmethod call?
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2021-05-19 00:23:19	meejah	bunbunbunbunny: attrs.org is probably going to be nicer
2021-05-19 00:23:54	bunbunbunbunny	would rather not use 3rd party
2021-05-19 00:24:04	bunbunbunbunny	i rolled my own class instead of dataclasses which works
2021-05-19 00:24:08	bunbunbunbunny	so all g
2021-05-19 00:24:11	SnoopJ	bunbunbunbunny, you can use the `default_factory` method of dataclasses.field https://bpaste.net/IUNA
2021-05-19 00:24:35	SnoopJ	in attrs it would be easier to keep it all inside the class
2021-05-19 00:24:46	bunbunbunbunny	oh cool
2021-05-19 00:24:48	bunbunbunbunny	thanks
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2021-05-19 00:29:59	bunbunbunbunny	sux that it's so weird
2021-05-19 00:30:04	bunbunbunbunny	but it works thanks!
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2021-05-19 00:31:06	SnoopJ	what don't you like about it?
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2021-05-19 00:42:03	Evidlo	I'm trying to use asyncssh on Windows, but I'm getting a rather vague error "The specified network name is no longer available", being raised in asyncio: https://github.com/ronf/asyncssh/issues/368
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2021-05-19 00:42:48	Evidlo	can I maybe modify asyncio to actually print what 'network name' its talking about?  it's being raised here: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Lib/asyncio/windows_events.py#L455-L463
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2021-05-19 00:50:01	mihael	I'm trying to query an API which returns a JSON object but is using single quotes instead of double quotes. How do I convert it to valid JSON before writing it to a file?
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2021-05-19 01:04:39	phy1729	complain to the API owner to fix their stuff
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2021-05-19 01:06:46	Wulf	mihael: try ast.literal_eval
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2021-05-19 02:05:24	AhmedAmerican	is there more Pythonic way to achieve the same result ? https://bpa.st/BOVQ
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2021-05-19 02:12:22	stranac	AhmedAmerican: data.replace("\n", "\r\n")
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2021-05-19 02:18:14	AhmedAmerican	@stranac thank you.
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2021-05-19 02:23:01	t2mkn	can i write this in one line any ways?
2021-05-19 02:23:04	t2mkn	        q = self.get_query_argument('q', '').split(',')
2021-05-19 02:23:05	t2mkn	        for i in range(len(q)):
2021-05-19 02:23:05	t2mkn	            q[i] = q[i].strip()
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2021-05-19 02:24:36	vlt	t2mkn: A list comprehension. And no nood for "i" and "range(len) stuff ;-)
2021-05-19 02:24:41	vlt	*need
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2021-05-19 02:25:17	t2mkn	didn't get that. i don't know python much. can you give example pelase.
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2021-05-19 02:26:01	meejah	q = [arg.strip() for arg in self.get_query_argument('q', '').split(',')]
2021-05-19 02:26:11	vlt	t2mkn: q = [el.strip() for el in self.get_it()]
2021-05-19 02:26:45	t2mkn	ooo wow thanks vlt meejah :)
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2021-05-19 03:08:00	Sunny93	Can I force a user to pass arguments when creating a new instance of a class ?
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2021-05-19 03:08:53	Sunny93	__init__(self, must_pass_this_argument)
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2021-05-19 03:10:41	KirkMcDonald	Sunny93: Sure, exactly like that.
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2021-05-19 03:21:21	Sunny93	KirkMcDonald but I can initialize an instance without passing any arguments.
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2021-05-19 03:21:57	Sunny93	ah I see
2021-05-19 03:22:58	Sunny93	I made a syntax mistake and the amentioned exmaple works . Thanks
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2021-05-19 03:27:00	Ashburry	I am using Trio how do I get the IP of an connected socket?
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2021-05-19 03:28:16	Wulf	Ashburry: there should be something like getsockname or getpeername
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2021-05-19 03:34:14	sanketdg	What is a pythonic way to do not print the preceding space in a string when a value is not there? For example using f-strings, " {value}" I do not want the preceding space to be present here when value = ""
2021-05-19 03:35:12	KirkMcDonald	sanketdg: Include the space in the value, or have the space be a separate value.
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2021-05-19 03:38:17	sanketdg	KirkMcDonald: seems like that is the sensible way here, thanks.
2021-05-19 03:39:03	KirkMcDonald	sanketdg: You can also play tricks like: f"{' ' if value else ''}{value}"
2021-05-19 03:40:03	sanketdg	yeah I was also thinking ' ' * bool(value) but there are multiple values so this becomes noisy
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2021-05-19 03:47:12	Ashburry	I am using Trio how do I get the IP of an connected socket?
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2021-05-19 03:49:53	Wulf	Ashburry: there should be something like getsockname or getpeername
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2021-05-19 04:04:25	Ashburry	hello, anyone able to help with a simple trio request? How do you get the ip address from an open tcp connection?
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2021-05-19 04:13:58	Wulf	Ashburry: PING
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2021-05-19 04:14:57	supakeen	:D
2021-05-19 04:15:52	supakeen	But no, Trio does not offer a high-level API around those.
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2021-05-19 04:17:27	Wulf	sock.socket.getsockname() works just fine for me. sock is a SocketStream.
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2021-05-19 04:20:50	supakeen	Sure, the low-level things still work.
2021-05-19 04:20:53	supakeen	https://github.com/python-trio/trio/issues/280
2021-05-19 04:20:55	supakeen	See there.
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2021-05-19 04:21:38	supakeen	For some of the possible problems :)
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2021-05-19 04:29:14	varaindemian	how can I append text to a certain location in a file?
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2021-05-19 04:29:37	varaindemian	and keep the format of the text as it was
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2021-05-19 04:31:50	kosh	easiest way is to read the whole file into memory, insert the part you need and write it back
2021-05-19 04:32:04	varaindemian	I know I have testfile.write("Line Four\n")
2021-05-19 04:32:14	varaindemian	but can I somehow specify the location?
2021-05-19 04:32:36	kosh	slightly better but more complicated is read into memory everything after that location in the file change the data and then append it again
2021-05-19 04:32:40	Wulf	varaindemian: do you want to insert data or replace data? If replace, is the new data the same byte count ass the replaced data?
2021-05-19 04:32:41	supakeen	No, there is no good way to insert text in the middle of a file.
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2021-05-19 04:32:52	supakeen	You can overwrite some data in the middle of the file.
2021-05-19 04:32:54	kosh	it is not easy to do, files are not build to have data inserted in them
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2021-05-19 04:33:13	supakeen	Or you can write the rest of the file with your new data at a certain offset if you want to 'append'.
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2021-05-19 04:33:53	varaindemian	Wulf: just add date to some placeholders/empty spaces
2021-05-19 04:34:05	varaindemian	just add data*
2021-05-19 04:34:39	Wulf	varaindemian: that doesn't answer my question.  Put another way: Will the size of the file change?
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2021-05-19 04:35:17	Wulf	varaindemian: You can overwrite bytes in a file, but you can't move data around.
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2021-05-19 04:36:21	varaindemian	yes, the size of the file will change -> file will become bigger
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2021-05-19 04:37:12	Wulf	varaindemian: then you'll have to create a new file and copy the data from the old file.
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2021-05-19 04:41:12	varaindemian	how?
2021-05-19 04:41:20	varaindemian	Wulf: ^
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2021-05-19 04:45:59	Wulf	varaindemian: what part is unclear?
2021-05-19 04:46:38	Wulf	varaindemian: opening a new file for writing?  with open("new", "wb") as new
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2021-05-19 04:46:58	Wulf	varaindemian: or copying data?  data = old.read(1234); new.write(data)
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2021-05-19 04:55:39	jusss	python -m http.server, how to handle ConnectionResetError?
2021-05-19 04:56:06	jusss	like client cancel the downloading file, this exceptionw will raise, how to solve it?
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2021-05-19 04:56:21	jusss	it cause the http server crash\
2021-05-19 04:56:46	supakeen	The built-in HTTP server is not meant to be very resilient or production ready.
2021-05-19 04:56:50	jusss	there's no much info on the web I can find, please
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2021-05-19 04:57:28	jusss	supakeen: use other like django flask tornado?
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2021-05-19 04:57:51	supakeen	If you want to serve some static files like http.server does you'd use nginx or another webserver to do that.
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2021-05-19 04:58:05	supakeen	Django, Flask, and Tornado are web frameworks for writing dynamic websites.
2021-05-19 04:58:35	Wulf	I currently use nginx + hypercorn/quart-trio
2021-05-19 04:58:37	jusss	supakeen: sorry, I'm on windows, nginx can't run on it
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2021-05-19 04:59:03	supakeen	I am not familiar with the Windows ecosystem, but I bet there's webservers that are built for production that can run on Windows.
2021-05-19 04:59:12	Wulf	supakeen: like IIS?
2021-05-19 04:59:21	supakeen	I don't know :)
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2021-05-19 04:59:32	Wulf	https://nginx.org/en/docs/windows.html
2021-05-19 05:00:07	jusss	http.server or SimpleHttpServer don't provide handle for ConnectionResetError?
2021-05-19 05:00:22	Wulf	dunno.
2021-05-19 05:00:24	jusss	I just need a static website to test
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2021-05-19 05:00:36	Wulf	jusss: in my opinion, python should remove this from the stdlib.
2021-05-19 05:00:57	jusss	Wulf: with what to instead?
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2021-05-19 05:01:21	Wulf	jusss: I use hypercorn+quart-trio
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2021-05-19 05:15:28	supakeen	Seems a bit of overkill to serve some static files :)
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2021-05-19 05:25:03	Sunny93	What is the scope of a function created by `exec()` ?
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2021-05-19 05:25:33	Sunny93	I just tried to called a function created by `exec()` inside a class.
2021-05-19 05:25:41	Sunny93	It seems not working. ...
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2021-05-19 05:38:17	c0mrade	What are the good courses, resources to learn Data Structures and Algorithms in Python? I've checked Udemy (there are some good stuff apparently), I've checked algoexport.io which is also good. Any other ones anyone would recommend? As I want to invest money
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2021-05-19 05:42:57	bjs	Sunny93: exec takes arguments that set the global and local scope
2021-05-19 05:43:03	bjs	Sunny93: otherwise, it's "the same" as usual.
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2021-05-19 05:43:27	bjs	Sunny93: why are you using exec?  maybe there's a different way that works
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2021-05-19 05:45:19	Sunny93	I asked a question on SO
2021-05-19 05:45:19	Sunny93	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67600790/why-use-exec-to-create-function-dynamically-inside-a-class-method-doesnt-work
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2021-05-19 05:46:29	Sunny93	" takes arguments that set the global and local scope", I don't understand
2021-05-19 05:46:49	bjs	Sunny93: exec is a function, it has 3 arguments.
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2021-05-19 05:47:39	Sunny93	Ok , I will check the signature later and see if anything helps
2021-05-19 05:47:59	Sunny93	My original design is that
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2021-05-19 05:49:29	bjs	Sunny93: exec runs a whole Python program. a `def` at the top-level is an assignment in the global scope.
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2021-05-19 05:49:54	bjs	Sunny93: but the real question is what are you trying to do?  even the most seasoned Python programmers get `exec` wrong when trying to use it.
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2021-05-19 05:51:09	Sunny93	bjs My original design is that, I have some strings from an API, specifying what columns need what kind of conversion function. E.g.  {"row['id']": "id_conversion_function"}
2021-05-19 05:52:01	bjs	Sunny93: i'm a little confused, you have the string "row['id']"  ?
2021-05-19 05:52:18	Sunny93	Then I concat those strings into  a function `def trans(row):  row['id'] = id_conversion_function(row['id]')`
2021-05-19 05:52:27	Sunny93	yes
2021-05-19 05:52:31	Sunny93	I am using pandas
2021-05-19 05:52:41	bjs	Sunny93: why not just have "id" in the (JSON?) dictionary
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2021-05-19 05:55:29	Sunny93	No. {"row['id']": "id_conversion_function"} defines rules apply to a row['id']
2021-05-19 05:56:12	Sunny93	Let me check my so quesiton , I got some reponses.
2021-05-19 05:56:12	lericson	lol why can't you pathlib.Path('foo.png').with_suffix('_bar.txt')?
2021-05-19 05:56:33	lericson	seems very arbitrary to only allow sufficies starting with a period
2021-05-19 05:56:42	bjs	Sunny93: yeah I understand that, but why mention 'row' explicitly?
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2021-05-19 05:56:57	bjs	Sunny93: why not instead have it be {"id": "id_conversion_function"} and not use exec at all
2021-05-19 05:57:11	bjs	Sunny93: e.g. something like https://bpa.st/MCHA
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2021-05-19 05:57:49	bjs	Sunny93: the answer on SO is wrong, it is being put into locals.
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2021-05-19 05:59:09	lericson	haha, jesus christ, this is bad design. you seriously cannot append a suffix to a path unless it starts with a period.
2021-05-19 05:59:10	bjs	passing globals() will make sure the local and global scopes inside the exec'd body are the same as the global scope of the module you called exec in,  but I strongly recommend not using exec here,  you *will* get it wrong and misunderstand, like that SO poster does
2021-05-19 05:59:46	lericson	str(my_path.with_suffix('')) + '_bar.txt') :D
2021-05-19 06:00:36	Sunny93	bjs allow me to elaborate my use case
2021-05-19 06:00:40	Sunny93	hmm
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2021-05-19 06:01:44	bjs	lericson: probably my_path.with_name(my_path.stem + "_bar.txt")  would be better?
2021-05-19 06:01:45	Sunny93	I am using pandas. And I need to do some conversions to some rows. check this function signature: pandas.DataFrame.apply
2021-05-19 06:01:47	Sunny93	https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/reference/api/pandas.DataFrame.apply.html#pandas-dataframe-apply
2021-05-19 06:01:55	lericson	bjs: assuming you have a my_path in the first place
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2021-05-19 06:02:39	Sunny93	pandas.DataFrame.apply receives a function, something like `def transform(row):   row['id'] = id_conversion(row['id']) return row`
2021-05-19 06:03:07	bjs	Sunny93: yes, does my code not work for that?
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2021-05-19 06:03:14	bjs	with no need for `exec`
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2021-05-19 06:05:15	Sunny93	give me a few mins. let me take a look
2021-05-19 06:05:24	Sunny93	I am new to Python. I used to write C++
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2021-05-19 06:06:49	bjs	Sunny93: here's an extended example that shows my `cvf` function being apply()d to a dataframe https://bpa.st/EO3A
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2021-05-19 06:10:12	bjs	I guess the point I'm trying to draw is that you don't need exec() to make functions dynamically,  in Python a function can just create and return a new function and use the arguments and variables without (too much) worry. and that making hashtables (dictionaries) to create maps of things you care about is very common and easy in Python
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2021-05-19 06:15:27	Sunny93	I need some time to understand the code ...
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2021-05-19 06:15:52	Sunny93	But it seems to work and very cool
2021-05-19 06:16:03	Sunny93	come back soon
2021-05-19 06:16:17	bjs	Sunny93: for what it's worth,  the features I make use of in the code are not very esoteric and you're likely to run into all of them quite a lot when working with Python
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2021-05-19 06:16:33	bjs	so it'd be good to familiarise yourself with them if you're not used to working in Python
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2021-05-19 06:18:00	aocusr	how am I supposed to do a while something := alist.pop(): ?
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2021-05-19 06:18:32	bjs	aocusr: you mean, `while alist: something = alist.pop()` but shorter?
2021-05-19 06:19:10	bjs	aocusr: or do you really mean to check the truthiness value of the thing you popped?
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2021-05-19 06:19:58	bjs	because what you wrote is valid Python and I'm just guessing you mean it doesn't do what you want?
2021-05-19 06:20:22	adder`	bjs, just curious, what gets passed as 'row' on line 7?
2021-05-19 06:22:00	aocusr	bjs: I thought := means the first, no ?
2021-05-19 06:22:14	bjs	aocusr: "means the first" ?
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2021-05-19 06:22:55	bjs	adder`: it's the argument to the function,  in the paste the returned function is called in two places: the `print(cvf(row))` line which calls it explicitly and the `df.apply(cvf)` line which does the calling of the cvf function itself
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2021-05-19 06:23:34	bjs	aocusr: `name := value` is an expression which evaluates to `value` but has the side-effect of assigning it to "name" first
2021-05-19 06:23:57	nomic	z.
2021-05-19 06:24:32	aocusr	ahh, ok, I see
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2021-05-19 06:28:23	aocusr	so there is no nice with default .pop for list like dict ?
2021-05-19 06:28:54	habnabit_	aocusr, 'nice with default'?
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2021-05-19 06:29:31	Yhg1s	aocusr: yes, there is no list.pop that takes a default value.
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2021-05-19 06:29:50	habnabit_	oh, 2-arg dict:pop
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2021-05-19 06:30:19	aocusr	maybe in python 4..
2021-05-19 06:30:39	Yhg1s	rather unlikely.
2021-05-19 06:30:45	Yhg1s	it's not like it's a backward-incompatible change.
2021-05-19 06:30:55	Yhg1s	it's just not something that's considered worthwile to add.
2021-05-19 06:31:04	aocusr	is there a documentation for all the descrpencies between such things in the language ?
2021-05-19 06:31:23	Yhg1s	aocusr: no. dicts and lists aren't the same thing at all, so it's not really a discrepancy.
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2021-05-19 06:31:39	swensson	I must be missing something, when pip installing something, "import something" does not work in pycharm, but when I use python straight from the bash enviroment, it works great.. Any ideas?
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2021-05-19 06:31:54	aocusr	swensson: your pycharm environment is different then your bash one ?
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2021-05-19 06:32:08	Yhg1s	swensson: pycharm is using a different version of Python, or a different virtualenv, or it had the module-not-found cached.
2021-05-19 06:32:10	aocusr	check both's sys.path ?
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2021-05-19 06:32:37	swensson	aocusr, how do I do that?
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2021-05-19 06:33:29	Yhg1s	swensson: 'import sys; print(sys.prefix); print(sys.version)'
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2021-05-19 06:35:54	swensson	Hmm yes, from pycharm: /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv and in bash: /usr
2021-05-19 06:36:05	swensson	Version is the same
2021-05-19 06:36:36	Yhg1s	swensson: don't install things with pip *except* in a virtualenv. installing thigns with pip outside of a virtualenv can break your system, or applications in your system. It's not a good idea.
2021-05-19 06:36:48	Yhg1s	swensson: in this case, just run /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv/bin/pip and it'll install in that virtualenv.
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2021-05-19 06:37:27	aocusr	pip should see it's running from a terminal and not in a virtualenv and warn about that
2021-05-19 06:38:05	swensson	Yhg1s, No such file or dictionary
2021-05-19 06:38:32	Yhg1s	swensson: how about /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv/python -m pip ?
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2021-05-19 06:38:45	Yhg1s	eh, sorry, /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv/bin/python -m pip
2021-05-19 06:39:22	aocusr	you can check the sys.executable and use that with "-m pip"
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2021-05-19 06:41:47	swensson	Ah thanks!... But how do I import "other" api's w/o pip?
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2021-05-19 06:42:05	Yhg1s	swensson: I'm not sure what you mean by that. pip is how you install packages.
2021-05-19 06:42:33	afidegnum	hi, i'm in this dilema, https://dpaste.org/7Q6P
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2021-05-19 06:42:34	swensson	Ah okey then nvm :)  Cheers
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2021-05-19 06:43:11	afidegnum	how do, fix it please, ?
2021-05-19 06:43:14	Yhg1s	afidegnum: you'll have to produce a traceback that actually identifies what line of source is producing this.
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2021-05-19 06:43:45	habnabit_	afidegnum, looks like you're trying to read a file that isn't utf-8 text as if it was
2021-05-19 06:43:48	habnabit_	afidegnum, what's in the file?
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2021-05-19 06:44:08	afidegnum	they are plain text files, but i believe some special charachters chipped
2021-05-19 06:44:18	Yhg1s	afidegnum: apparently they're not plain text files *in utf-8*.
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2021-05-19 06:44:36	habnabit_	afidegnum, where did they come from?
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2021-05-19 06:45:18	afidegnum	they were given me fron a french speaking guy, and some chinese guy as well
2021-05-19 06:45:35	Yhg1s	afidegnum: you'll have to find out what encoding they are in, and use the correct encoding.
2021-05-19 06:45:50	habnabit_	afidegnum, are you able to open them in a text editor and see the correct contents?
2021-05-19 06:46:04	afidegnum	yes, i am able to read the texts,
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2021-05-19 06:46:10	afidegnum	mostly english written
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2021-05-19 06:47:14	afidegnum	is there a way to convert them to utf-8 ?
2021-05-19 06:47:18	habnabit_	afidegnum, ok. add a `print(ascii(f))` before your open so you can see which read is failing
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2021-05-19 06:48:25	afidegnum	habnabit_: should i print f or z ?
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2021-05-19 06:48:38	Yhg1s	afidegnum: 'z' doesn't exist before the open.
2021-05-19 06:48:40	habnabit_	afidegnum, print(ascii(f)) xactly as i said
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2021-05-19 06:52:45	afidegnum	habnabit_: this is the name of the file PosixPath('/home/afidegnum/projects/BusinessAndMarketing/9_tips_for_writing_better_business_letters.txt')
2021-05-19 06:53:14	habnabit_	afidegnum, and if you open it in your text editor, does it look right?
2021-05-19 06:53:29	afidegnum	yes, that's where i believe the problem is
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2021-05-19 06:53:41	Sunny93	bjs I understand your code now
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2021-05-19 06:53:52	Yhg1s	afidegnum: what does 'file' say about that file?
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2021-05-19 06:54:45	afidegnum	do i import it ?
2021-05-19 06:55:01	Yhg1s	afidegnum: no, it's a unix utility, not a python module.
2021-05-19 06:55:25	Yhg1s	afidegnum: 'file /home/afidegnum/projects/BusinessAndMarketing/9_tips_for_writing_better_business_letters.txt' will try to tell you about the encoding of the file, if it can figure it out.
2021-05-19 06:55:33	afidegnum	ok,
2021-05-19 06:55:39	Sunny93	bjs combining with decorators,  the code is good and clean. Thanks and I am gonna see if I can apply this to my code.
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2021-05-19 06:56:11	leitz	Is there a python way to have a list of unquoted strings? That is, [ one two three four ], vice ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four'].
2021-05-19 06:56:35	Yhg1s	leitz: ' '.join(your_list) will get you the middle part, and then if you really want the brackets you can add those on after.
2021-05-19 06:56:39	afidegnum	Yhg1s: Non-ISO extended-ASCII text, with very long lines (806), with CRLF, LF line terminators
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2021-05-19 06:56:57	bjs	leitz: no, but a string doesn't really have any quotes in it, they're just how Python prints them. You can print it out however you like: print("[ {} ]".format(" ".join(that_list))
2021-05-19 06:57:17	habnabit_	afidegnum, then it isn't utf-8. text editors often have an option to change what encoding a file will be in when they're written out
2021-05-19 06:57:26	Yhg1s	afidegnum: okay, so it's indeed not UTF-8, and it's not clear what encoding it is supposed to be. It's probably going to be guesswork then. If you know what it's supposed to look like, you can try a number of encodings and see if it looks right. (iso-8859-15, iso-8859-1, etc)
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2021-05-19 06:58:06	habnabit_	afidegnum, i suggest changing it (and any other files) to utf-8 via opening them in a text editor and saving them in the right encoding
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2021-05-19 06:58:31	afidegnum	there are more than 200 similar files
2021-05-19 06:58:46	habnabit_	afidegnum, and they all fail to read?
2021-05-19 06:58:56	Yhg1s	afidegnum: back to asking whoever gave you the files about their encoding then.
2021-05-19 06:59:26	afidegnum	some of them are able to read others like this one failed to ready
2021-05-19 06:59:27	afidegnum	read
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2021-05-19 06:59:36	leitz	Yhg1s, bjs, thanks. I'm trying to use Perl's  qw[ ] syntax, it's a little cleaner. However, quoting the list items works.
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2021-05-19 06:59:55	habnabit_	leitz, mylist = 'one two three four'.split()
2021-05-19 06:59:55	afidegnum	Yhg1s: the person who gave me the file is unreachable, i received it last year during the pandemic
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2021-05-19 07:00:26	Yhg1s	afidegnum: it's quite possible the ones are able to be read are still in a different encoding than UTF-8, because UTF-8 is also a superset of ASCII, so those files could be plain ASCII, or they could also parse as "correct" UTF-8 but give the wrong result.
2021-05-19 07:00:30	habnabit_	leitz, you can even split it over several lines: mylist = """ ... """.split()
2021-05-19 07:00:40	leitz	habnabit_, thanks! Hand't thought of that!
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2021-05-19 07:00:43	Yhg1s	afidegnum: well, you don't have very many options.
2021-05-19 07:00:49	leitz	hadn't
2021-05-19 07:01:00	afidegnum	ouch!
2021-05-19 07:01:14	Yhg1s	leitz: if you have so much data that you're worried about the quotes, perhaps you want to read it in from an external source, like toml or something.
2021-05-19 07:01:19	habnabit_	afidegnum, how did you count the number of files that fail to read?
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2021-05-19 07:02:36	afidegnum	they were in a zip files, i extracted it, and able to read some of them
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2021-05-19 07:14:59	afidegnum	habnabit_: i've just got a hint from 'mousepad' text editor,
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2021-05-19 07:15:23	afidegnum	the encoding is in ISO-8859-1
2021-05-19 07:15:52	Yhg1s	afidegnum: it's very difficult to distinguish different iso-8859-* encodings from each other, *unless* you know what it's supposed to look like.
2021-05-19 07:15:57	afidegnum	so, should i change the reading encoding to that format ?
2021-05-19 07:16:44	Yhg1s	afidegnum: only for files that are actually in that encoding.
2021-05-19 07:17:13	Yhg1s	afidegnum: for example, the byte for '¤' in iso-8859-1 is the byte for '€' in iso-8859-15.
2021-05-19 07:17:33	Yhg1s	afidegnum: so unless you know the file has '¤' or '€' in it, you won't be able to distinguish between those two.
2021-05-19 07:18:47	habnabit_	any sequence of bytes is "in" iso-8859-1 if you mean it'll successfully decode, because it will never reject any stream of bytes
2021-05-19 07:19:10	afidegnum	so does it means there will be another error if i get another file in i.e utf-8 format ? after changing to ISO-8859-1 ?
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2021-05-19 07:19:37	habnabit_	afidegnum, change everything to utf-8
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2021-05-19 07:20:05	Yhg1s	afidegnum: if you have a file in UTF-8 and decode it as if it's iso-8859-1, it will decode without error, but the result will be mojibake.
2021-05-19 07:20:09	afidegnum	habnabit_: that's where the error is coming from while reading from utlf-8
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2021-05-19 07:20:33	Yhg1s	afidegnum: habnabit_: is suggesting *changing files to utf-8*, not 'reading them as if they're utf-8'.
2021-05-19 07:20:48	habnabit_	afidegnum, edit the files, not your code
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2021-05-19 07:20:50	afidegnum	is there a function which can help find the encoding ?
2021-05-19 07:20:55	swensson	Now when trying to run the script from the terminal, it fails-.- Can't I get both bash and pycharm to use the same libs etc? I'm in the same directory...
2021-05-19 07:21:23	Yhg1s	afidegnum: not a function. there are tools, but they merely do guessing, based on statistics.
2021-05-19 07:21:29	Yhg1s	afidegnum: see the chardet module.
2021-05-19 07:21:57	afidegnum	ok,
2021-05-19 07:22:11	Yhg1s	swensson: does /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv/bin/activate exist?
2021-05-19 07:22:17	habnabit_	afidegnum, if you don't know what it is from out of band and the file doesn't have an `encoding="utf-8"` marker like xml does, the best you can do is guess
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2021-05-19 07:23:52	swensson	Yhg1s Yes it does
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2021-05-19 07:24:23	Yhg1s	swensson: then 'source /home/myUser/PycharmProjects/pythonProject1/venv/bin/activate' will make 'python' use the virtualenv's python. (see bit.ly/py-venv for more info about virtualenvs.)
2021-05-19 07:24:40	afidegnum	habnabit_: you mean the file metadata? they are all text files
2021-05-19 07:24:52	habnabit_	afidegnum, i do not
2021-05-19 07:25:06	habnabit_	afidegnum, i don't know of any OS/FS that has encoding stored in metadata
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2021-05-19 07:25:45	swensson	Yhg1s Ah cheers mate! =)
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2021-05-19 07:26:00	afidegnum	ok, i think what i will do is to program emacs to open the files and saved then in utf-8, another problem now is to save them into the db.
2021-05-19 07:26:38	Yhg1s	afidegnum: emacs is unlikely to do any better job than just pretending they're all iso-8859-1, or at least the ones that aren't valid UTF-8. you will end up with mojibake.
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2021-05-19 07:26:56	Yhg1s	afidegnum: you would need to *actually look at the non-ASCII characters* to see if it's properly decoded.
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2021-05-19 07:28:40	Sunny93	bjs what is this problem "passing globals() will make sure the local and global scopes inside the exec'd body are the same as the global scope of the module you called exec in, " ?
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2021-05-19 07:29:27	Sunny93	Would you like to give a minimal example?
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2021-05-19 07:32:02	bjs	Sunny93: it's how exec works. Exec takes up to 3 arguments. The arguments determine what the global and local scopes are during execution of the code you pass exec
2021-05-19 07:33:08	bjs	Sunny93: exec() has (in my opinion) a complicated API and I'm not even going to try explain what each combination of options does: the docs do a better job and I'd surely make a mistake.
2021-05-19 07:33:13	bjs	and Yhg1s is watching ;)
2021-05-19 07:33:47	Sunny93	OK I understand a little bit more now
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2021-05-19 07:34:40	Sunny93	But it seems that you are indicating that each `.py` file (module) has its own global scope?
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2021-05-19 07:34:47	bjs	Sunny93: that is correct
2021-05-19 07:34:56	Sunny93	I am thinking there's only 1 global scope for the whole program
2021-05-19 07:35:05	Yhg1s	you are thinking about something other than Python then :)
2021-05-19 07:35:19	bjs	Sunny93: that's not how Python works,  each module/.py file has its own 'global' scope
2021-05-19 07:35:20	Sunny93	*_*
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2021-05-19 07:35:30	afidegnum	Yhg1s: so, apart from gessing in which encoding the text file is written into, is there no universal methods to read the contents then save them into utf-8 ?
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2021-05-19 07:35:44	Yhg1s	afidegnum: correct.
2021-05-19 07:35:54	Yhg1s	afidegnum: if you don't know what the bytes mean, there's no way to know what the bytes mean.
2021-05-19 07:35:56	Celelibi	Late binding sucks.
2021-05-19 07:36:32	afidegnum	i understand,
2021-05-19 07:36:48	Yhg1s	Celelibi: not as much as early-binding, since it's much easier to turn late-binding into early-binding than vice-versa.
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2021-05-19 07:37:36	Celelibi	How do you do so?
2021-05-19 07:37:49	Yhg1s	Celelibi: a new scope.
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2021-05-19 07:40:30	Celelibi	Hm... I'll think about it.
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2021-05-19 07:41:20	habnabit_	Celelibi, the usual hack is `def f(): a = 1; def g(a=a): ..`
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2021-05-19 07:48:34	Laibsch	Is there a tool to check for python2isms?  Similar to checkbashisms.
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2021-05-19 07:51:57	leitz	If "weaks" and "phrase" would get built from text files, "marked_phrase" removed, and the goal to be simple code that is extendable, how could this be made cleaner and better?     https://bpa.st/AWNA
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2021-05-19 07:53:53	swensson	Anyone have any tips on how to solve this? I want to listen for a certain combo of keypresses to activate a function instead of just one press: https://dpaste.org/tGyQ
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2021-05-19 07:54:38	Peyam	How do I download a file as a temporary file in Python?
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2021-05-19 07:55:06	habnabit_	Laibsch, i believe that futurize has a 2/3->3 converter in it https://python-future.org/automatic_conversion.html#futurize-py2-to-py2-3
2021-05-19 07:55:12	habnabit_	Laibsch, i'm trying to find it
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2021-05-19 07:55:44	very_sneaky	Peyam: https://stackoverflow.com/a/44672691 maybe thiswill help
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2021-05-19 07:55:59	leitz	Hmmm...just realized a flaw. The word being searched is compared with with "startswith()", but the re.sub is not.  I may have to go back to split() and join().
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2021-05-19 07:56:06	Peyam	How do I create a temporarily directory, download zip file into it and unzip the thing
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2021-05-19 07:56:56	very_sneaky	Peyam: https://stackoverflow.com/a/10909016
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2021-05-19 07:57:34	very_sneaky	alternatively, if your /tmp is mapped to tmpfs, you can write to `/tmp` and be writing directly to RAM using files
2021-05-19 07:57:34	habnabit_	Laibsch, maybe i'm thinking of stage 2 converters
2021-05-19 07:57:54	very_sneaky	think it will clear every reboot
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2021-05-19 08:02:13	P1ckleRick	Morning all
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2021-05-19 08:02:34	swensson	Good afternoon P1ckleRick
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2021-05-19 08:04:19	kline	https://www.kline.sh/
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2021-05-19 08:11:27	kline	libera.chat is open btw
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2021-05-19 08:11:49	P1ckleRick	what the? What's going on with Freenode
2021-05-19 08:12:04	lericson	viva la revolucion
2021-05-19 08:12:14	wyoung	Hey! It's P1ckleRick!!!
2021-05-19 08:12:39	P1ckleRick	:)
2021-05-19 08:12:50	wyoung	Classic Rick
2021-05-19 08:13:00	lericson	we're in a pickle, rick
2021-05-19 08:13:10	supakeen	Discussion about the free nodes trembling can go into -offtopic, we're well aware :)
2021-05-19 08:13:14	P1ckleRick	but where do we go from here :S
2021-05-19 08:13:15	FLHerne	P1ckleRick: https://gist.github.com/aaronmdjones/1a9a93ded5b7d162c3f58bdd66b8f491
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2021-05-19 08:13:36	P1ckleRick	Thanks
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2021-05-19 08:14:20	wyoung	What's with the resignation letter?
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2021-05-19 08:14:58	AnimalFarmPig	I noticed something weird about the .isidentifier() method of strings. It appears that there are a few thousand false positives, or maybe I understand the concept of "valid identifier" differently than Python maintainers. Here's my code to check: https://bpa.st/XNUA
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2021-05-19 08:15:33	AnimalFarmPig	^ with 3.8 on my box this turns up 3410 "naughty characters"
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2021-05-19 08:17:29	lericson	AnimalFarmPig: for example, 戛 = 1 works fine
2021-05-19 08:17:35	lericson	but your code identifies it as naughty
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2021-05-19 08:18:30	supakeen	Plus the eval doesn't fail here :)
2021-05-19 08:18:39	lericson	in fact
2021-05-19 08:18:39	lericson	>>> eval('戛', {}, {'戛': 'foo'})
2021-05-19 08:18:39	lericson	'foo'
2021-05-19 08:18:41	lericson	yeah
2021-05-19 08:19:05	supakeen	Wonder why that fails on your machine.
2021-05-19 08:19:13	lericson	i actually get the same
2021-05-19 08:19:17	AnimalFarmPig	hmm... that is interesting. It's definitely failing on mine
2021-05-19 08:19:18	lericson	so it's something wonky in the code
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2021-05-19 08:19:36	habnabit_	AnimalFarmPig, 3.8.0?
2021-05-19 08:19:45	AnimalFarmPig	3.8.5 on Ubuntu 20.04
2021-05-19 08:19:51	lericson	>>> try_eval('戛')
2021-05-19 08:19:51	lericson	>>>
2021-05-19 08:19:52	lericson	wut
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2021-05-19 08:20:53	lericson	it's some sort of encoding issue it seems
2021-05-19 08:21:15	AnimalFarmPig	>>> try_eval('戛')
2021-05-19 08:21:15	AnimalFarmPig	... SyntaxError: invalid syntax
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2021-05-19 08:21:58	mniip	I've resigned from volunteering for freenode for a good reason and I think you should know as well: https://mniip.com/freenode.txt (sorry for the spam (wait that's cliche))
2021-05-19 08:22:57	Bombo	i don't get print: this works: print("DIST: [%s] [%s] [%s]" % (platform.dist())) but why doesn't this work: print("DIST: [%s] [%s] [%s] OS: [%s]" % (platform.dist()), platform.system()) 'TypeError: not enough arguments for format string' how many argumetns are this, i count 4
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2021-05-19 08:23:06	supakeen	It's ok for Freenode staff to advertise their resignations in here so more people know what is going on but I'd prefer if any discussion about it happens in the -offtopic parts :)
2021-05-19 08:23:06	AnimalFarmPig	hmmm.... same results with pypy3 3.7.1 (3.6.9 compatible)-- let me try this on a different box
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2021-05-19 08:23:48	bjs	Bombo: it's not print, it's %-formatting
2021-05-19 08:23:54	lericson	AnimalFarmPig: oddly enough i get a different character in the first position of the tuple than the error message
2021-05-19 08:24:00	habnabit_	Bombo, % is.. a bit confusing. platform.dist() returns a tuple, and % flattens _one_ level of tuple
2021-05-19 08:24:08	bjs	Bombo: `s % t`  the t has to be a tuple. Note that (x) is not a tuple
2021-05-19 08:24:23	habnabit_	Bombo, i.e. ((1, 2, 3), 4) is not flattened into four formatting arguments
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2021-05-19 08:24:56	habnabit_	Bombo, i'd probably write this as f'{platform.dist()=} {platform.system()=}'
2021-05-19 08:25:25	damoreno	Hey there. Quick question about dataclasses. I have a class with some typed properties. They are validated when I construct an object of that class, but what can I do to validate also when I assign values directly?
2021-05-19 08:25:26	AnimalFarmPig	I just tried this on an anaconda build of 3.7.4 on Red Hat and I get same results-- 3410 invalid characters
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2021-05-19 08:25:39	lericson	AnimalFarmPig: could it be that they are incomplete characters?
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2021-05-19 08:25:56	AnimalFarmPig	lericson: if you run the paste as a script, does it return a list of naughty characters, or does everything run fine?
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2021-05-19 08:26:08	lericson	i get the same as you as i said before
2021-05-19 08:26:14	lericson	but for example
2021-05-19 08:26:15	lericson	>>> naughty_characters[-13]
2021-05-19 08:26:15	lericson	('倂', NameError("name '倂' is not defined"))
2021-05-19 08:26:21	lericson	notice how they are not the same
2021-05-19 08:26:24	AnimalFarmPig	lericson: that's what I'm wondering, or some kind of control character, which shouldn't be a valid identifier, imo
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2021-05-19 08:26:32	AnimalFarmPig	oh, I didn't notice that
2021-05-19 08:26:40	bjs	damoreno: no they do not get automatically checked. There are libraries like pydantic to do checking at runtime.  There are also tools like mypy and pytype that can check the dataclass creation statically
2021-05-19 08:26:48	AnimalFarmPig	check the contents for your dictionary after the run for even more weirdness
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2021-05-19 08:27:20	lericson	>>> naughty_characters = [err for char in identifiers if (err := try_eval(char + 'aaa')) is not None]
2021-05-19 08:27:23	lericson	gave the same list
2021-05-19 08:27:25	lericson	curious!!
2021-05-19 08:27:41	damoreno	bjs: thanks for the answer. Another question would be: is there anything like pydantic validator for dataclasses?
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2021-05-19 08:29:36	lericson	CJK Compatibility Ideographs Supplement
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2021-05-19 08:29:46	lericson	so the answer is that it's been normalized, AnimalFarmPig
2021-05-19 08:30:05	AnimalFarmPig	hmm... not able to reproduce the dict content weirdness I was getting before, oh well
2021-05-19 08:30:27	AnimalFarmPig	lericson: so, some kind of funky chinese characters that swallow subsequent characters?
2021-05-19 08:30:43	lericson	no
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2021-05-19 08:31:08	lericson	it's a compatibility block, i think they turn into other characters under some normalizations
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2021-05-19 08:31:38	habnabit_	sounds like a bug that .isidentifier() returns true then
2021-05-19 08:31:40	AnimalFarmPig	oh, interesting, just looked it up on wikipedia-- that seems like it would account for 544 characters
2021-05-19 08:31:43	lericson	>>> unicodedata.normalize('NFC', '倂')
2021-05-19 08:31:44	lericson	'倂'
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2021-05-19 08:31:59	lericson	habnabit_: otoh you can use the non-normalized symbol just fine
2021-05-19 08:32:26	AnimalFarmPig	I thought I noticed some middle eastern script among the naughty character list, so I assume there may be other characters that are handled similarly
2021-05-19 08:32:27	habnabit_	lericson, it's still a strange dichotomy
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2021-05-19 08:35:58	lericson	now _this_ is a bug
2021-05-19 08:35:58	lericson	>>> eval('倂', {}, {'倂': 'foo'})
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2021-05-19 08:36:35	AnimalFarmPig	ha! I see what's going on. I scrolled up to some more recognizable characters and noticed this-- ('𝞦', NameError("name 'Χ' is not defined",))
2021-05-19 08:36:54	lericson	if you simply normalize char when you put it into locals, it will work
2021-05-19 08:36:58	AnimalFarmPig	if I change my dict to-- `d = {str(char): 'foo'} `   everything passes
2021-05-19 08:37:02	AnimalFarmPig	right
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2021-05-19 08:37:57	IHasFinger	Hi all, anyone can recommend a blog post with indepth details on how to set up a package and use it. Thank you :)
2021-05-19 08:38:12	IHasFinger	google is just showing all sort
2021-05-19 08:38:28	wyoung	IHasFinger: You didn't find the python docs useful?
2021-05-19 08:38:42	lericson	hmm that's not all of them
2021-05-19 08:38:52	lericson	there's some weird transformation going on
2021-05-19 08:38:54	habnabit_	IHasFinger, https://setuptools.readthedocs.io/en/latest/userguide/declarative_config.html ?
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2021-05-19 08:41:35	AnimalFarmPig	https://bpa.st/CNPQ  <--- using variable named 𝞦 in the console together with eval
2021-05-19 08:41:36	lericson	boom
2021-05-19 08:41:38	IHasFinger	habnabit_, and wyoung  i found https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/packaging-projects/
2021-05-19 08:41:42	lericson	AnimalFarmPig: https://bpa.st/SMSQ
2021-05-19 08:41:45	lericson	0 invalid
2021-05-19 08:42:07	lericson	never mind the double assignment to naughty_characters
2021-05-19 08:42:16	Bombo	habnabit_: did you mean like this? print("DIST: [%s] [%s] [%s] OS: [%s]" % f'{platform.dist()=} {platform.system()=}')
2021-05-19 08:42:30	Bombo	habnabit_: AttributeError: module 'platform' has no attribute 'dist'
2021-05-19 08:42:38	habnabit_	Bombo, no, i mean drop everything before and including the %
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2021-05-19 08:43:07	habnabit_	Bombo, ...? how were you calling it before if it fails now?
2021-05-19 08:43:27	Bombo	habnabit_: print(f'{platform.dist()=} {platform.system()=}') ?
2021-05-19 08:43:32	lericson	in fact, AnimalFarmPig, you can do this https://bpa.st/5VKQ
2021-05-19 08:43:34	habnabit_	Bombo, yes
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2021-05-19 08:44:04	lericson	i guess it's not really a bug
2021-05-19 08:44:05	Bombo	habnabit_: with python2 there is platform.dist() but f'... doesn't work
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2021-05-19 08:44:14	very_sneaky	does anybody know how i can create a specific HDF5 type that doesn't necessarily map to a numpy datatype using h5py? I'm assuming it involves using the low level api, but a way to do it isn't jumping out at me
2021-05-19 08:44:21	habnabit_	Bombo, you're writing python 2 code?
2021-05-19 08:44:24	Bombo	habnabit_: so i changed to python3 but seems like tzhere is no dist
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2021-05-19 08:44:52	n00b101	I've a Django app. I have created a user. I want to block the same user logging in by saying "user is already logged in". I saw few articles but all they are doing is , if same user is logging in, previous session is deleted and user is logged in again. If user is logged in, can I say "cannot login, user already logged in"?
2021-05-19 08:45:02	Bombo	habnabit_: i started with 2 yes
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2021-05-19 08:45:32	AnimalFarmPig	lericson: right, makes sense-- so, if I want to know the set of valid identifiers that can be used in an eval together with injected locals/globals, then I just need to apply the unicode normalization to the set of valid identifiers outside of an eval statement
2021-05-19 08:45:50	lericson	yeah
2021-05-19 08:46:00	habnabit_	Bombo, 2 and 3 aren't generally compatible.. if you have some existing code that uses one, porting to the other is not trivial
2021-05-19 08:46:02	lericson	basically when python looks up an identifier in the locals, it normalizes it first -- which makes very good sense
2021-05-19 08:46:10	AnimalFarmPig	but this only applies if I'm injecting locals/globals as a dict. If the local/globals are None, then it works fine
2021-05-19 08:46:11	habnabit_	Bombo, so i think we need to start from the beginning here
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2021-05-19 08:46:28	Bombo	habnabit_: i just found example code for 2
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2021-05-19 08:46:45	habnabit_	Bombo, so.. problem solved?
2021-05-19 08:46:46	AnimalFarmPig	>>> 𝞦='foo'
2021-05-19 08:46:46	AnimalFarmPig	>>> eval('𝞦')
2021-05-19 08:46:46	AnimalFarmPig	'foo'
2021-05-19 08:47:03	AnimalFarmPig	apparently the normalization only happens if we've specified a dict for globals/locals
2021-05-19 08:47:11	lericson	no no
2021-05-19 08:47:14	lericson	look at locals() now
2021-05-19 08:47:27	AnimalFarmPig	oh!
2021-05-19 08:47:30	AnimalFarmPig	I see
2021-05-19 08:47:35	lericson	it's normalized
2021-05-19 08:47:37	lericson	always has been
2021-05-19 08:47:42	lericson	*pulls trigger*
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2021-05-19 08:47:49	AnimalFarmPig	normalization happens when it enters locals! everything makes sense now
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2021-05-19 08:48:00	AnimalFarmPig	thanks for the help on this
2021-05-19 08:48:08	lericson	i would guess, actually, that all code is normalized before execution :p
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2021-05-19 08:48:14	Bombo	habnabit_: i mean i started with 2 cause i used the code i found with google which is for 2 :)
2021-05-19 08:48:25	Bombo	habnabit_: but i got it now with 2: print("DIST: [%s] [%s] [%s] OS: [%s]" % (platform.dist()+tuple([platform.system()])))
2021-05-19 08:48:38	Bombo	habnabit_: convert it to a tuple and cat it ;)
2021-05-19 08:48:58	habnabit_	Bombo, you can write a single tuple as (x,)
2021-05-19 08:49:26	famubu	In case it hasn't been mentioned here yet and I don't know if it counts as off-topic (apologies if it is), people are already active in the #python channel at libera.chat
2021-05-19 08:49:28	grawity	I'd probably write that as % (*platform.dist(), platform.system())
2021-05-19 08:49:34	AnimalFarmPig	right, I was starting with the assumption that every character is unique, but they're only unique after normalization
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2021-05-19 08:49:50	AnimalFarmPig	in terms of use for identifiers
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2021-05-19 08:50:27	lericson	haha oh jesus this is funny
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2021-05-19 08:50:57	lericson	you want to know all the duplicate characters
2021-05-19 08:51:06	Bombo	habnabit_: but platform.system is a str
2021-05-19 08:51:13	lericson	http://pb.lericson.se/p/sPySTJ/
2021-05-19 08:51:15	AnimalFarmPig	>>> 𝞦='foo';Χ='bar';𝞦=='bar'
2021-05-19 08:51:16	AnimalFarmPig	True
2021-05-19 08:51:24	lericson	:D
2021-05-19 08:51:30	AnimalFarmPig	lol, wow
2021-05-19 08:51:31	grawity	Bombo: I think they were suggesting platform.dist() + (platform.system(),)
2021-05-19 08:51:32	lericson	this opens up a whole new world of obfuscation
2021-05-19 08:51:53	Bombo	grawity: SyntaxError: invalid syntax * (i'm on python2)
2021-05-19 08:51:57	grawity	oh
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2021-05-19 08:52:03	grawity	my condolences
2021-05-19 08:52:06	lericson	>>> laſt = 1
2021-05-19 08:52:06	lericson	>>> last
2021-05-19 08:52:06	lericson	1
2021-05-19 08:52:06	lericson	:D
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2021-05-19 08:53:01	varaindemian	in a given file.txt how can I extract the value for source_port? Example input "bla bla "source_port": 26532 bla bla" -> I want to extract 26532
2021-05-19 08:53:20	habnabit_	Bombo, you made a different syntax mistake. `x + (y,)` is perfectly valid syntax in py2
2021-05-19 08:53:30	Bombo	grawity/ habnabit_ got it
2021-05-19 08:53:36	habnabit_	varaindemian, sounds like json
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2021-05-19 08:54:37	varaindemian	habnabit_: can be a json
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2021-05-19 08:54:42	varaindemian	or a random text
2021-05-19 08:54:57	varaindemian	let
2021-05-19 08:54:59	habnabit_	varaindemian, what's the rest of the file? i bet you can use json.load
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2021-05-19 08:55:05	Bombo	now where did the platform.dist go in python 3
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2021-05-19 08:55:09	varaindemian	let's say it is json
2021-05-19 08:55:14	varaindemian	how can I use json load
2021-05-19 08:55:15	habnabit_	varaindemian, ok, then use json.load
2021-05-19 08:55:15	varaindemian	?
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2021-05-19 08:55:38	habnabit_	varaindemian, with open('whatever') as f: content = json.load(f)
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2021-05-19 08:55:51	grawity	Bombo: what does platform.dist() even do... I just get ("", "", "") from it
2021-05-19 08:56:27	varaindemian	can I also use it to modify data?
2021-05-19 08:56:40	habnabit_	varaindemian, sure
2021-05-19 08:56:48	grawity	aha "This is an old version of the functionality now provided by linux_distribution()"
2021-05-19 08:56:59	varaindemian	is there a command to beautify it?
2021-05-19 08:57:01	securethemews	varaindemian, it will load it into a dictionary. you can then modify the data. if you want to modify the file with the new data, you can use json.dump()
2021-05-19 08:57:08	grawity	lol the same page says linux_distribution() is deprecated
2021-05-19 08:57:25	grawity	Bombo: well I'd probably suggest 'os-release' in pip then
2021-05-19 08:57:26	Bombo	grawity: print(platform.dist()) ('Ubuntu', '20.04', 'focal')
2021-05-19 08:57:35	habnabit_	varaindemian, json.dump has an indent= parameter for prettifying
2021-05-19 08:57:38	grawity	Bombo: or some other package that parses the /etc/os-release file (which practically all distros have now)
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2021-05-19 08:57:59	grawity	Bombo: alternatively it seems the 'distro' package has more features
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2021-05-19 09:00:31	varaindemian	habnabit_:  indent parameter that specifies how many spaces to indent by
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2021-05-19 09:00:47	habnabit_	varaindemian, yep
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2021-05-19 09:01:07	varaindemian	and if I do not use it the text is beautified with 1 space? Because wright now is a one liner
2021-05-19 09:01:21	habnabit_	varaindemian, it isn't beautified at all without it
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2021-05-19 09:02:10	varaindemian	habnabit_: all right
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2021-05-19 09:03:51	varaindemian	    raise ValueError("No JSON object could be decoded")
2021-05-19 09:03:52	varaindemian	ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded
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2021-05-19 09:05:24	Gurkenglas	"norm.forward(x)" throws "TypeError('forward() takes 1 positional argument but 2 were given')", how can this be?
2021-05-19 09:05:47	Yhg1s	Gurkenglas: it's a method.
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2021-05-19 09:06:18	lericson	Gurkenglas: whenever you call a bound method, it implicitly passes self as the first argument
2021-05-19 09:06:23	varaindemian	habnabit_: looks like it's not json?
2021-05-19 09:06:30	Gurkenglas	Ah, that makes sense of it. Thanks.
2021-05-19 09:06:48	lericson	Gurkenglas: now go make some homologies
2021-05-19 09:06:49	Bombo	grawity: got it thx
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2021-05-19 09:07:08	Bombo	platformdist = (distro.name(), distro.version(), distro.codename()); print("DIST: [%s] [%s] [%s] OS: [%s]" % (*platformdist, platform.system()))
2021-05-19 09:07:11	Bombo	DIST: [Ubuntu] [20.04] [focal] OS: [Linux]
2021-05-19 09:07:13	Bombo	;)
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2021-05-19 09:08:23	sappheiros	is python going to libera or officially stay here?
2021-05-19 09:08:51	JavaBean	"why not both.mp4"
2021-05-19 09:08:57	supakeen	It's being discussed internally, you'll know if/when it happens sappheiros :)
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2021-05-19 09:09:31	sappheiros	thank you, supakeen. I am thinking to leave freenode.
2021-05-19 09:09:39	supakeen	JavaBean: Generally we dictate only a few official community channels, see here: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-05-19 09:09:59	sappheiros	right, i just asked after looking at that page
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2021-05-19 09:10:27	sappheiros	given the volunteer staff's reaction as a canary in the coal mine (i don't know a better metaphor) it seems better to leave
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2021-05-19 09:12:01	JavaBean	don't forget, freenode runs on hardware donated to the community.  if the people donating that hardware/time decide they don't like what just happened, they won't donate those resources anymore.  if that happens, what will freenode run on?
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2021-05-19 09:13:38	lericson	oh
2021-05-19 09:13:43	lericson	THAT's why it's freenode?
2021-05-19 09:13:47	lericson	free nodes
2021-05-19 09:13:55	supakeen	That hasn't happened yet so we can't guess at that future.
2021-05-19 09:14:26	barneygale	JavaBean: they've already lost literally their entire staff, including their technical staff
2021-05-19 09:14:53	Bombo	what happened? to freenode?
2021-05-19 09:14:58	wizzwizz4	Bombo: Greed.
2021-05-19 09:15:01	--	snalty_ is now known as snalty
2021-05-19 09:15:08	barneygale	Former CFO of mt gox somehow got ownership of the domain + servers
2021-05-19 09:15:09	IHasFinger	habnabit_ I have a package set up like https://bpa.st/TUIA in my userController class I am calling a user entity. However I am getting ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'entity'
2021-05-19 09:15:26	leduyquang753	Bombo https://gist.github.com/jesopo/45a3e9cdbe517dc55e6058eb43b00ed9
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2021-05-19 09:15:42	lericson	barneygale: it's the former ceo of mt gox? :D
2021-05-19 09:15:45	supakeen	While I understand that there's quite an uproar about the Freenode situation I'd prefer the discussion to take place in -offtopic so people with Python questions don't get drowned out/confused :)
2021-05-19 09:15:46	lericson	plot thickening
2021-05-19 09:15:52	lericson	ok sorry
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2021-05-19 09:16:44	Bombo	leduyquang753: thx
2021-05-19 09:16:45	Bombo	hm
2021-05-19 09:16:46	supakeen	IHasFinger: The `entity` and `controller` directories need `__init__.py` files to turn them into packages.
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2021-05-19 09:22:48	IHasFinger	supakeen, I added the __init__.py still same error
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2021-05-19 09:23:10	supakeen	I'm sorry I'm not entirely familiar on how to work with a `src/` directory containing multiple packages.
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2021-05-19 09:23:28	P1ckleRick	currently learning PyQT5, I'm trying create an autocomplete on a QLineEdit widget. Which works fine, however I want to display additional text with this (however, not to include the additional text when selected).
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2021-05-19 09:23:50	P1ckleRick	do we know if that's possible?
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2021-05-19 09:27:01	P1ckleRick	guessing it might involve subclassing the completer class or creating a custom model
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2021-05-19 09:32:00	varaindemian	habnabit_: can I use a strip command to strip down the quotes or '' or aything (if any) from the values of the json dictionary?
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2021-05-19 09:32:29	varaindemian	habnabit_: I know it;s usually used with strings
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2021-05-19 09:33:18	very_sneaky	does anybody know of a way of creating a hdf5 dataset with a specific HDF5 type not specifically covered by a numpy data type with h5py? I'm pretty sure i'll have to use the low level api, but nothing is jumping out at me. I'm trying to create a dataset with type H5T_NATIVE_B16
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2021-05-19 09:34:10	drogas	is this channel moving to libra.chat?
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2021-05-19 09:34:35	drogas	has the migration begun? Where is the boat
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2021-05-19 09:34:53	IHasFinger	supakeen, i moved it from src and still the same thing
2021-05-19 09:35:12	IHasFinger	you know after creating the setup.py do you need to run something?
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2021-05-19 09:40:11	varaindemian	in a given file.txt how can I extract the value for source_port? Example input "bla bla "source_port": 26532 bla bla" -> I want to extract 26532. I know I can use json.dumps but values might be in different dictionaries. so print(parsed['request_url']) doesn't work but print(parsed['payload']['request_url']) works. How can I cover both cases?
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2021-05-19 09:40:51	grawity	varaindemian: by e.g. using an 'if' block to check one case then the other
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2021-05-19 09:41:30	varaindemian	grawity: there are too many ways i might find these values :(
2021-05-19 09:41:30	--	some02 is now known as sudden
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2021-05-19 09:43:31	varaindemian	grawity: I might also treat the file as something else?
2021-05-19 09:43:37	varaindemian	as a plain text file
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2021-05-19 09:43:54	grawity	it really sounds like an "extremely last-resort" approach
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2021-05-19 09:44:10	varaindemian	:(
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2021-05-19 09:44:44	varaindemian	ten how can I solve this? Basically I need to interate over an unkown number of imbricated dictionaries to find a key
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2021-05-19 09:45:19	grawity	where do those dicts come from? I'm really curious what kind of data it is, tbh
2021-05-19 09:46:19	stevieh	when if the "source_port" is unique, you could recurse through all dictionairies...
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2021-05-19 09:46:46	gulzar	Hi. may be regex problem. I have a file where first column is names. I need to pickup lines with names Will, Harry, Jas .  I can do  if line[0] in [will, harry, jas]     . Problem is if the names in files are Will_Smith, Harry_Potter, Ober_Jas  then how to pick the lines?  regex will work but I need to make 3 different re.compile.  What If I need to pick up 10 names. 10 re.compile doesn't seems good idea. Any sugestions please
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2021-05-19 09:48:18	supakeen	`if line[0].casefold().startswith("harry"):`.
2021-05-19 09:48:41	gulzar	the name can be potter_harry
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2021-05-19 09:49:05	grawity	so more precisely, which part of the name do you want to check?
2021-05-19 09:49:08	supakeen	Then you need to make a definitive list of all possible ways a name can be written down.
2021-05-19 09:49:15	grawity	the word before the "_"? the word after the "_"? either of them?
2021-05-19 09:49:16	supakeen	And which parts you want to perform your matching on.
2021-05-19 09:49:26	supakeen	Or do you 'just' want a substring match?
2021-05-19 09:49:43	supakeen	e.g. in `harry_harry` which part do you want to match.
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2021-05-19 09:49:54	gulzar	grawity: yes either side and any caps.  "_" is present as of now so it's premanent.
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2021-05-19 09:50:11	grawity	like if you want to check either side, then I might go with `if {*line[0].casefold().split("_")} & {"will", "harry", "jas"}:`
2021-05-19 09:50:28	gulzar	supakeen: in that case any side. Because we want harry. it can be harry_m.   harry_m_s_g, a_B_vdf_harry_asdf_a
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2021-05-19 09:51:07	gulzar	current list i have are two words with _    so tha't the best case
2021-05-19 09:51:28	gulzar	casefold is new. checking
2021-05-19 09:52:12	supakeen	casefold() is lower() but better as some letters might not have lowercase equivalents
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2021-05-19 09:52:53	gulzar	what about case. what if name is PoTTer_HaRRy
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2021-05-19 09:53:19	nubonix	Hello, I would like to pull data from a website that has currency-pair tick data so that I can do things with this data, suchas creating my own charts, apply my own indicators, and perhaps send trades. The websocket uses a wss to send data to the browser, and I am trying to replicate this without the browser. There is no documentation that I can find that supports this, nor any programming for this exchange/broker
2021-05-19 09:53:19	nubonix	[quotex]. What im really trying to do at the moment is automate looking for trade entries based upon a strategy i would like to test. I am attempting to pull the data via a http stream, and the server seems to respond correctly [101 returned status code, the browser gives the same response when initializing the wss connection]. My attempt with the websocket-client library failed with a 400 returned status code. Here is
2021-05-19 09:53:19	nubonix	my attempt via a https stream:  https://bpa.st/QXDA
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2021-05-19 09:53:27	gulzar	grawity: ^
2021-05-19 09:53:53	grawity	gulzar: same answer, already calls casefold()
2021-05-19 09:54:02	gulzar	oh ok
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2021-05-19 09:54:50	gulzar	grawity: now worst case. Not incountered yet.  What if instead of _ there is nothing so it's like "harrypotter"
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2021-05-19 09:55:04	grawity	what are you expecting from the computer, some magic?
2021-05-19 09:55:39	gulzar	hahahaha
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2021-05-19 09:56:23	zoug	I have some experience with python, and have a commandline tool for which I would like to write a GUI frontend. However I've never developed a frontend! What would be your recommendations for a simple, easy-to-use, crossplatform GUI for writing this frontend in python? Or, should I consider using another language? Thanks
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2021-05-19 09:57:16	gulzar	grawity: thank you
2021-05-19 09:57:20	gulzar	supakeen: thank you
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2021-05-19 09:58:49	aocusr	so, is #Python planning on moving to another server ?
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2021-05-19 10:00:07	supakeen	"It's being spoken about but there's no answer right now."
2021-05-19 10:00:13	bbear	why moving ?
2021-05-19 10:00:14	supakeen	Perhaps I should put it in the /topic.
2021-05-19 10:00:18	<--	wei2912 (~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-19 10:00:28	aocusr	bbear: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409
2021-05-19 10:00:37	aocusr	is the python discord managed by the same people as here ?
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2021-05-19 10:00:59	NoImNotNineVolt	it is alleged that andrew lee is attempting a hostile takeover of freenode.
2021-05-19 10:01:14	<--	kilitary (~kilitary@kilitary.ru) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-19 10:01:15	wizzwizz4	NoImNotNineVolt: The only alleged part is "hostile", from what I can tell.
2021-05-19 10:01:26	wizzwizz4	And whether it's a "takeover" or a "reclaimation".
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2021-05-19 10:01:35	damoreno	What is a more elegant way of writing this? https://bpa.st/HU4Q
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2021-05-19 10:01:39	 *	NoImNotNineVolt just found out about this a few minutes ago
2021-05-19 10:01:45	phy1729	It's a takeover. He had no real involvement other than on paper
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2021-05-19 10:01:54	wizzwizz4	Visit #python-offtopic; that's where we're discussing this.
2021-05-19 10:02:31	wizzwizz4	Or… perhaps that's where the Python conversations are and here's where the off-topic is?
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2021-05-19 10:03:06	supakeen	No, but policing this is going to be super annoying as it's going to be brought up every few minutes.
2021-05-19 10:03:22	MrFrobozz	Was very confused when I joined #python-offtopic and was greeted with a topic saying "WELCOME TO #rust-offtopic"
2021-05-19 10:03:22	supakeen	As I've said I prefer that chat to happen in -offtopic and keep this channel to Python-related questions :)
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2021-05-19 10:06:01	varaindemian	grawity: they are jsons but different flavors
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2021-05-19 10:06:16	varaindemian	grawity: semi rendomly generated
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2021-05-19 10:11:50	GiLgAmEzH	supakeen: I think it's a good idea to include in the topic
2021-05-19 10:12:23	varaindemian	anyone knows?>
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2021-05-19 10:12:24	GiLgAmEzH	supakeen: Other question. Can you please add #pyar (python argentina) to the topic? or how I request it?
2021-05-19 10:12:36	GiLgAmEzH	it has been the biggest spanish speakers channel for years
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2021-05-19 10:13:11	supakeen	I can do that for you.
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2021-05-19 10:14:24	zoug	I have some experience with python, and have a commandline tool for which I would like to write a GUI frontend. However I've never developed a frontend! What would be your recommendations for a simple, easy-to-use, crossplatform GUI for writing this frontend in python? Or, should I consider using another language? Thanks
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2021-05-19 10:14:35	--	supakeen has changed topic for #python from "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpaste.net/+python | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu" to "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Moving from Freenode? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python"
2021-05-19 10:14:42	jfhbrook	zoug: pyqt comes to mind
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2021-05-19 10:14:50	supakeen	GiLgAmEzH: ^ double change :)
2021-05-19 10:15:11	jfhbrook	zoug: the stdlib answer is tkinter but it's kinda terrible and hard to get working reliably ime, meanwhile qt is quite nice!
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2021-05-19 10:15:37	supakeen	It seems we've hit topic size limit, let me make that shorter.
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2021-05-19 10:16:22	zoug	jfhbrook thank you ! i've stumbled upon it but I've made Qt interfaces in C++ back in the days and I feel it's maybe overkill for the simple setup I'm trying to acheive.. thanks!
2021-05-19 10:16:29	amogorkon	spam, spam, bpaste, spam, spam, be nice and spam please
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2021-05-19 10:17:31	jfhbrook	zoug: the library itself is a lil industrial grade I suppose but I think the lift of using it shouldn't be too bad. check out qt quick if you haven't done it in a while
2021-05-19 10:17:31	akk	zoug: The simplest is tkinter if your UI is fairly simple and cross-platform is important. Qt and gtk are more powerful but also more complicated, both to program and to install as dependencies.
2021-05-19 10:17:33	grym	zoug: people also seem to like kivy these days
2021-05-19 10:17:45	grym	zoug: but i am not a GUI maker
2021-05-19 10:17:50	jfhbrook	funny enough it's tkinter that I can never get to work
2021-05-19 10:17:54	amogorkon	grym \o/
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2021-05-19 10:18:30	akk	wxwidgets is a fourth option but it seems to combine the disavantages of all the others. :)
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2021-05-19 10:19:09	zoug	jfhbrook akk grym thank you guys I'll check out these! :)
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2021-05-19 10:19:22	SnoopJ	wxWidgets is definitely idiosyncratic
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2021-05-19 10:19:34	Bombo	i'm trying this to run on python2 too: print("HAS_TLSv1[%s] HAS_TLSv1_3[%s]" % (ssl.HAS_TLSv1, ssl.HAS_TLSv1_3)) i get AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'HAS_TLSv1' is there a way to check if the obj has that attr before?
2021-05-19 10:19:55	Peyam19	Hi, I am trying to download a zip file unzip the file , do some stuff with the content of the zip and then remove it. How do I do it?
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2021-05-19 10:20:42	supakeen	Peyam19: Use a library to perform the HTTP requests then use the `zipfile` module :)
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2021-05-19 10:20:58	--	supakeen has changed topic for #python from "Anything about Python is on-topic. Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Moving from Freenode? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | Be nice. The Python CoC applies: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops are at #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python" to "Anything about Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Moving? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #pytho"
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2021-05-19 10:21:11	supakeen	Fine, I won't touch it anymore.
2021-05-19 10:21:25	Peyam19	supakeen okej
2021-05-19 10:21:29	gulzar	grawity: small thing. what is that asterix * doing?  removing it gave me "unhasable type:list" what I know is * is ussed to decalre input of any size like *args
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2021-05-19 10:21:53	gulzar	is it ebacuse of {}
2021-05-19 10:21:55	grawity	basically the same, only the exact opposite
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2021-05-19 10:22:31	grawity	when used as an assignment it collects individual items into a list -- but in this case it expands the list (or other iterable) into individual items
2021-05-19 10:22:40	gulzar	ohh ok
2021-05-19 10:22:45	gulzar	thank You
2021-05-19 10:22:47	gulzar	learned something new
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2021-05-19 10:23:25	grawity	so if you have foo=["a", "b"] then ["x", *foo, "y"] is like ["x", "a", "b", "y"] and similar
2021-05-19 10:23:56	grawity	and {} is used for set literals so {*foo} is what I habitually use to convert something into a set, instead of set(foo)...
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2021-05-19 10:27:27	IHasFinger	Hi all can someone help me please. I am creating a package like https://bpa.st/UQOA but keeping getting module not found
2021-05-19 10:27:35	IHasFinger	ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'entity'
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2021-05-19 10:28:16	IHasFinger	I have follow the documentation and youtube videos and its not working :(
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2021-05-19 10:28:55	kevr	can i ask for a nonlocal version of a name in the case where a local conflicts with a global (or non-local)?
2021-05-19 10:29:16	kevr	s/conflicts with/shadows/
2021-05-19 10:29:20	ammar2	IHasFinger: how are you running this code?
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2021-05-19 10:30:36	grawity	kevr: uh, well there is a globals()["foo"] for the former (assuming the name being shadowed is not 'globals') but that sounds like a deeper problem kind of thing
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2021-05-19 10:31:51	kevr	https://bpa.st/JXVA
2021-05-19 10:32:04	IHasFinger	ammar2, at the bottom of usercontroller class i am calling the fetch_user like print(userController().fetch_user())
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2021-05-19 10:32:09	kevr	if that's pretty much the way, we can deal with it.
2021-05-19 10:32:19	bjs	kevr: there's no good way, inside a scope the name always refers to the same thing, either the local or the global
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2021-05-19 10:32:27	kevr	for sure.
2021-05-19 10:32:44	ammar2	IHasFinger: right, how are you running it though? just python packaging_tutorial/controller/user_controller.py?
2021-05-19 10:33:07	IHasFinger	using vs code and pressing the play button
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2021-05-19 10:33:20	adv_	how can i convert a timestamp like 00:00:21.949 to mins (e.g. 1:35) ?
2021-05-19 10:33:37	kevr	are you sure that's minutes though?
2021-05-19 10:33:39	ammar2	IHasFinger: okay yeah, so you probably want to install the package you made first. Go into the directory it's in and do a `pip install -e .`
2021-05-19 10:33:41	kevr	that looks like 21 s econds and some milliseconds
2021-05-19 10:33:49	IHasFinger	ammar2, which tuns python filename.py
2021-05-19 10:33:51	adv_	kevr, yeah the conversion is correct
2021-05-19 10:34:00	adv_	it was just an example
2021-05-19 10:34:00	kevr	interesting
2021-05-19 10:34:05	kevr	o_O
2021-05-19 10:34:07	bjs	adder`: how did you get 1:35 ?
2021-05-19 10:34:10	bjs	oops
2021-05-19 10:34:11	kevr	^
2021-05-19 10:34:15	bjs	adv_: how did you get 1:35 ?
2021-05-19 10:34:19	adv_	bjs, meant the format
2021-05-19 10:34:25	kevr	looks more like 00:21 to me.
2021-05-19 10:34:31	bjs	adv_: okay, well what do you want the real output to be?
2021-05-19 10:34:32	kevr	adv_: just truncate the milliseconds off.
2021-05-19 10:35:22	adv_	from this timestamp format i want to output youtube like timestamps 3mins35secs
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2021-05-19 10:35:25	bjs	adv_: 21? or 0:21? or 00:21? or 00:00:21 ?
2021-05-19 10:35:37	bjs	adv_: okay well 3mins35secs is very different from 1:35 format you had earlier
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2021-05-19 10:35:48	bjs	and still I'm not sure how you got 3 minutes and 35 secons from 00:00:21.949
2021-05-19 10:36:06	adv_	bjs, yes i mean "human readable", the conversion isn't corrct
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2021-05-19 10:36:09	adv_	correct*
2021-05-19 10:36:35	bjs	adv_: given "00:00:21.949" what do you want to output?
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2021-05-19 10:37:00	IHasFinger	ammar2, thank you.
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2021-05-19 10:37:22	ammar2	IHasFinger: no problem, did it work? :)
2021-05-19 10:37:39	IHasFinger	the error is gone but yeah it does :)
2021-05-19 10:38:09	adv_	bjs: 21:94
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2021-05-19 10:38:30	bjs	adv_: I thought you just said you wanted something in "XminYsec" format?
2021-05-19 10:38:54	bjs	adv_: or "min:sec"
2021-05-19 10:38:54	adv_	sorry, i think that would be 00:21
2021-05-19 10:39:02	bjs	adv_: you think?
2021-05-19 10:39:05	bjs	which? :)
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2021-05-19 10:40:27	adv_	let me rephrase
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2021-05-19 10:40:55	adv_	all that was an awful description
2021-05-19 10:41:12	bjs	adv_: maybe you want to datetime.datetime.strptime(that_timestamp, "%H:%M:%S.%f").strftime("%M:%S")   # or some variation
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2021-05-19 10:43:31	adv_	so i need two conversions. from "00:02:17.970" a. to get to 2.18 and b. t=138 (which is the conversion to seconds for youtube url)
2021-05-19 10:43:55	bjs	adv_: you want to take a timestamp and work out the total number of seconds?
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2021-05-19 10:46:10	adv_	bjs, yes
2021-05-19 10:46:23	adv_	bjs, your earlier snippet solves a, thanks!
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2021-05-19 10:47:05	bjs	adv_: maybe datetime is the wrong thing then, as it's not really a date or a time
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2021-05-19 10:48:09	Bombo	ok i got a regex question: print(re.sub("(foo)", "[\1]", "bar foo baz")) i want to replace foo with [foo]
2021-05-19 10:48:39	Bombo	oh "[\\1]"
2021-05-19 10:48:41	Bombo	;)
2021-05-19 10:48:53	Bombo	nvm
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2021-05-19 10:50:58	adv_	bjs, it's the timestamp from a video on youtube
2021-05-19 10:51:29	bjs	adv_: yeah it's not really a time at all.  Time as in "15 minutes past 3 o'clock" time
2021-05-19 10:51:34	bjs	but more a timespan
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2021-05-19 10:55:18	pragma-	What is the #pytho channel for?
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2021-05-19 10:55:24	 *	pragma- squints at the /topic
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2021-05-19 10:56:40	nedbat	pragma-: the /topic was cut off
2021-05-19 10:57:13	bjs	 the /topic should probably link to https://www.python.org/community/irc/ and the Other Channels part
2021-05-19 10:57:22	bjs	and have the list there
2021-05-19 10:57:24	amogorkon	please
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2021-05-19 11:07:18	mefistofeles	.topic
2021-05-19 11:07:20	mefistofeles	err
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2021-05-19 11:08:03	 *	amogorkon offers mefistofeles a left-over /
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2021-05-19 11:08:22	mefistofeles	amogorkon: thanks! haha
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2021-05-19 11:09:08	pyeverything	I have a native python virtual environment installed in /scratch3/venv/phosa/bin/python3.8 how can I copy or reinstall the same version of all pip package inside this environment call phosa in /research/jalal/venv folder?
2021-05-19 11:09:28	amogorkon	mefistofeles, always useful to have one of those laying around :]
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2021-05-19 11:09:32	tuxillo	hi
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2021-05-19 11:09:36	amogorkon	hi tuxillo
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2021-05-19 11:11:05	tuxillo	for xml.etree.ElementTree, how do I preserve already escaped characters? for example my &quot; gets converted into &amp;quot;
2021-05-19 11:11:12	tuxillo	it's escaping the ampersand
2021-05-19 11:11:13	Dejan	pyeverything, enter the phosa environment, and use pip freeze to output
2021-05-19 11:11:20	Dejan	save that to a file
2021-05-19 11:11:32	Dejan	and in a new environment use that file to install exact packages
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2021-05-19 11:12:39	Dejan	I always wanted python3 -m venv clone <env name> <destination>
2021-05-19 11:13:02	pyeverything	dejan let me see thanks
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2021-05-19 11:14:46	pyeverything	dejan here it is https://pastebin.com/raw/qdHjrntz
2021-05-19 11:14:48	infobob	https://bpaste.net/SZDA (repasted for pyeverything)
2021-05-19 11:14:51	Mocramis	Will #python move to libera ?
2021-05-19 11:15:04	Mocramis	(or anything else for that matter) ?
2021-05-19 11:15:26	amogorkon	Mocramis, #python-offtopic and no, so far
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2021-05-19 11:15:32	pyeverything	(11:11:33 AM) Dejan: and in a new environment use that file to install exact packages --> how do you do that
2021-05-19 11:15:36	Mocramis	amogorkon: ha sorry
2021-05-19 11:15:37	Dejan	pyeverything, what I meant was: pip freeze > /tmp/phosa.req
2021-05-19 11:15:52	Dejan	and when you activate new environment, use that file as requirements file
2021-05-19 11:16:04	pyeverything	dejan the file extension is req or txt or yaml? i see various extensions being used
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2021-05-19 11:16:05	Dejan	to install exactly the same packages
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2021-05-19 11:16:13	Dejan	it can be anything really
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2021-05-19 11:16:17	Dejan	i prefer .req
2021-05-19 11:16:18	Dejan	:)
2021-05-19 11:16:20	pyeverything	how do you install it using this file? dejan
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2021-05-19 11:16:30	Dejan	just like you use requirements files in all other cases
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2021-05-19 11:16:40	Dejan	pip3 install -U -r /tmp/phosa.req
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2021-05-19 11:16:47	Dejan	or no -U
2021-05-19 11:16:49	Dejan	better no -U :)
2021-05-19 11:17:09	Dejan	idk, maybe you will need it, check it out
2021-05-19 11:17:36	pyeverything	how do you specify python 3.8 though when making a virtual environment?
2021-05-19 11:17:46	pyeverything	I want to make a virtual environment first
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2021-05-19 11:17:49	pyeverything	named phosa
2021-05-19 11:17:54	Dejan	python3.8 -m venv my_new_env
2021-05-19 11:17:56	bjs	pyeverything: python3.8 -m venv venvName
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2021-05-19 11:18:42	Dejan	on most modern distros it is called python3.8 if it is not on yours you need to find where is your Python 3.8 installed
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2021-05-19 11:19:11	Dejan	(I assume you use Linux here, which may not be the case)
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2021-05-19 11:21:01	Dejan	speaking about libera... simply go to OFTC, that is what I would recommend
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2021-05-19 11:23:39	pyeverything	phosbjs dejan I got an error https://pastebin.com/raw/fx416hh6
2021-05-19 11:23:40	infobob	https://bpaste.net/ZCCA (repasted for pyeverything)
2021-05-19 11:24:12	pyeverything	ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement detectron2==0.2 (from -r /scratch3/research/code/phosa-dawnlight/phosa.req (line 12)) (from versions: none)
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2021-05-19 11:24:23	pyeverything	even though it was in my pip freeze
2021-05-19 11:25:05	Dejan	well, only you know how you got detectron2 ... i can't help with that
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2021-05-19 11:27:12	natim87	Hello smart people, I am having a strange Python behaviour maybe some of you can help.
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2021-05-19 11:28:17	natim87	Python crashes wit free(): invalid pointer
2021-05-19 11:28:17	natim87	We ran it using PYTHONFAULTHANDLER=1 to get a traceback but we don't understand it
2021-05-19 11:28:17	natim87	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kifFQWhq/stacktrace.txt
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2021-05-19 11:29:36	mad_moses	Hi, what is happening if I inheritance from two classes which implement both a method test()? Which one will be applied? both (sequentiell)?
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2021-05-19 11:30:38	amogorkon	mad_moses, iirc the rightmost one
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2021-05-19 11:31:29	bjs	"rightmost" ?
2021-05-19 11:31:30	natim87	Apparently installing protouf 3.16.0 rather than 3.17.0 seems to fix the issue 🤔
2021-05-19 11:31:35	amogorkon	you can test it easily, just write two classes and a third that inherits from both
2021-05-19 11:31:44	amogorkon	bjs, from left to right?
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2021-05-19 11:32:06	bjs	mad_moses: if you have a `class C(A,B): ...` an you lookup `c.foo()` it first looks for foo on C, then on A, then on B, until it finds it, then it calls that one
2021-05-19 11:32:07	bjs	and only that one.
2021-05-19 11:32:32	bjs	mad_moses: (there's a complicated algorithm for when A and B also have multiple parents, or if they share parents, but it's the same idea)
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2021-05-19 11:32:46	natim87	It might be related to https://github.com/protocolbuffers/protobuf/pull/8530/files
2021-05-19 11:32:55	mad_moses	amogorkon: https://github.com/pennersr/django-allauth/blob/master/allauth/account/views.py#L217 => RedirectAuthenticatedUserMixin and  CloseableSignupMixin both implement desipatch but I will only call CloseableSignupMixin dispatch method and completely ignore  RedirectAuthenticatedUserMixin dispatch method?
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2021-05-19 11:33:54	amogorkon	bjs, if all classes implement the same method, it uses the one that is "rightest" (or whatever is the word)
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2021-05-19 11:34:53	amogorkon	(except the one inheriting, that is)
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2021-05-19 11:35:01	bjs	amogorkon: I'm not sure what you mean by "rightest" ?
2021-05-19 11:35:24	bjs	unless you mean right as in correct, then yes it uses the most correct one :)
2021-05-19 11:35:27	amogorkon	sigh, nvm, you can explain better
2021-05-19 11:35:47	Yhg1s	'first in the method resolution order' :)
2021-05-19 11:35:49	bjs	Python makes an order, and it picks the first one that implements it.
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2021-05-19 11:36:09	bjs	then super() in that one gives you the next in the order that implements it, and so on
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2021-05-19 11:36:33	amogorkon	Yhg1s, resolution order was the word i was looking for :|
2021-05-19 11:36:42	mad_moses	Hmm, wrote a small script and it applies the "leftest"
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2021-05-19 11:37:11	mad_moses	https://dpaste.org/kSbG output is 'a'
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2021-05-19 11:37:31	mad_moses	but the "rightest" is B?
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2021-05-19 11:38:27	Yhg1s	mad_moses: 'A' is first in the order, because it's first in the list of classes in C.
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2021-05-19 11:38:39	amogorkon	method resolution order, mro
2021-05-19 11:38:51	mad_moses	okay
2021-05-19 11:39:04	betuxy	Hey guys, can i ask a general question about python? i've heard a lot about big data with python, crunching a lot of numbers. How is it viable to do it with an interpreted language instead something like c(++) or rust?
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2021-05-19 11:39:32	Yhg1s	betuxy: the answer is complicated. the simple answer is that you can offload work to non-dynamic bits.
2021-05-19 11:39:35	amogorkon	mad_moses, http://www.srikanthtechnologies.com/blog/python/mro.aspx maybe helps
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2021-05-19 11:39:44	grawity	my understanding is that mostly they use python to call modules written in C(++) or rust
2021-05-19 11:39:54	amogorkon	or fortran
2021-05-19 11:39:55	amogorkon	or..
2021-05-19 11:40:00	grawity	similar to how one would write shellscripts to glue things together
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2021-05-19 11:42:16	bjs	mad_moses: for each class, Python makes a list of base classes, and then when looking up an attribute or method on an instance, it goes through that list one-by-one. You can see the list by doing print(C.__mro__)
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2021-05-19 11:43:25	bjs	mad_moses: the way it is constructed is, it starts with the class itself, and then tries to go left->right through the base classes (and the base classes of those etc), but with a condition that all the base classes come after the parents.
2021-05-19 11:43:42	mad_moses	thank you
2021-05-19 11:43:49	explodes	libera?
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2021-05-19 11:44:13	nedbat	explodes: did you have a fuller expression of your question?
2021-05-19 11:44:20	betuxy	grawity: ah okay that makes sense, are these modules in a python lib or is it more an external binary which gets used?
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2021-05-19 11:44:47	bjs	so if you had `class A(B,C)` and `class B(D,E)` then it'd be like [A,B,D,E,C,object]
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2021-05-19 11:45:12	todda7	how to make manual version of functool.wraps? I want to concat docs and arguments, and keep function name intact
2021-05-19 11:45:50	nedbat	todda7: i'm not sure what you mean by a manual version?  Why can't you use the real functool.wraps?
2021-05-19 11:46:02	grawity	betuxy: they're libraries (as in DLL or .so files) that can be imported directly as a python module
2021-05-19 11:46:03	todda7	nedbat: how
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2021-05-19 11:46:53	nedbat	todda7: i guess i don't know what you're trying to do. Can you show us an example of the result you want?
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2021-05-19 11:47:39	todda7	given fn1 and fn2, make it so that fn1 appears to have args of fn1+fn2. and concat doc of fn1 and fn2
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2021-05-19 11:47:47	grawity	betuxy: so you `import numpy` or something and Python loads the appropriate numpy.so that provides Python classes just like an "interpreted" module would
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2021-05-19 11:48:38	grawity	betuxy: (and in addition to that, there are also python modules such as 'ffi' or 'ctypes' that let you call into *any* DLL/.so even if it's not a python module, though of course that's much more cumbersome... but e.g. python-oscrypto uses ffi to call into OpenSSL)
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2021-05-19 11:48:52	habnabit_	cffi
2021-05-19 11:49:15	SnoopJ	note: a *lot* of numpy is written in Python
2021-05-19 11:49:44	SnoopJ	but most of the hot code lives in C
2021-05-19 11:49:59	nedbat	todda7: you can use the code and adapt it: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Lib/functools.py#L25-L77
2021-05-19 11:50:35	SnoopJ	changing the function signature sounds a little strange, though
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2021-05-19 12:36:09	mike18	hi i have a function from a different package i call - how can i print what data it returns including datatype?
2021-05-19 12:36:16	mike18	so i can mock the data ...
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2021-05-19 12:37:54	supakeen	print(f(), type(f()))?
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2021-05-19 12:38:45	mike18	the function is called .get() ... which talks to some http server... can i just use responses.activate to mock that?
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2021-05-19 12:40:01	Peyam19	is try and except neccessary with opening files in python using the open keyword?
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2021-05-19 12:40:45	supakeen	Peyam19: You only need to handle exceptions that you can recover from.
2021-05-19 12:40:45	bjs	Peyam19: "necessary" ? no, you can use open without using try/except
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2021-05-19 12:42:03	bjs	Peyam19: the open call can always raise various exceptions, and you use try/except when you want to catch specific ones and deal with them.  Any you do not catch will 'bubble up'
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2021-05-19 12:43:15	Peyam19	when having with: do I need to do it in a try catch?
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2021-05-19 12:43:33	Peyam19	and what exceptions are those that could happen? IOError?
2021-05-19 12:43:46	supakeen	OSError's mostly, some others.
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2021-05-19 12:43:53	bjs	Peyam19: if you have `with open() ...: ...` and you want to catch the exceptions that come _from the open call_, then yes the `open` has to be within the `with`
2021-05-19 12:43:59	Samian	is it possible to do for x in y: with a step size?
2021-05-19 12:44:18	bjs	Peyam19: you can go `try: f = open(...) except FileNotFound: ...; else: with f: ...`
2021-05-19 12:44:22	supakeen	Samian: as in skip every other one? Normally you'd slice `y`.
2021-05-19 12:44:29	Samian	oh
2021-05-19 12:44:39	bjs	Samian: if the type supports it, `for x in y[::step]:`
2021-05-19 12:44:39	habnabit_	Samian, do you want to skip or group items as you iterate?
2021-05-19 12:44:48	supakeen	`for x in y[::2]` for example, or itertools.groupby/another one.
2021-05-19 12:44:52	mike18	hi how can i mock a function?
2021-05-19 12:44:56	todda7	how to get this data into Pandas dataframe? http://ix.io/3njU
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2021-05-19 12:45:09	mike18	of a package i call
2021-05-19 12:45:12	todda7	I was thinking json_normalize but that doesn't work because some sub dicts are None
2021-05-19 12:45:31	todda7	(Those two examples show all edge cases)
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2021-05-19 12:46:53	mike18	hi, Is it possible to mock a function imported from a package in python?
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2021-05-19 12:48:12	jfhbrook	you can mock anything if you're witty and acerbic enough
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2021-05-19 12:48:27	bjs	mike18: yes, unittest.mock gives you a way to mock things
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2021-05-19 12:48:46	jfhbrook	mike18: real answer though, you can patch just about anything with unittest.mock and pytest makes this embarrassingly easy with its monkeypatch helper
2021-05-19 12:48:54	mike18	do you have some example handy?
2021-05-19 12:49:06	bjs	mike18: no, but the unittest.mock documentation does
2021-05-19 12:49:15	mike18	is it simple to do?
2021-05-19 12:49:34	mike18	can it mock dynamically?
2021-05-19 12:49:41	bjs	mike18: do the examples look too complicated?
2021-05-19 12:49:51	mike18	let me see
2021-05-19 12:49:53	sartan	with mock.patch('your.import.string.as.visible.by.what.you.are.mocking.foo') as mocked_foo:  mocked_foo.return_value = 'bananas':  <your test here>
2021-05-19 12:49:58	bjs	mike18: maybe that's a good idea :)
2021-05-19 12:50:19	sartan	you can also @mock.patch() unit test classes
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2021-05-19 12:50:45	mike18	whats the diff using @mock.patch()  ?
2021-05-19 12:50:46	sartan	There will be many examples you see there and getting into the mock lib can be a little intimidating
2021-05-19 12:51:04	sartan	There's no functional difference, but it can make some code styles easier, especially with multiple mocks
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2021-05-19 12:52:39	mike18	where do you specify the function to mock for?
2021-05-19 12:52:52	mike18	foo in this case?
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2021-05-19 12:53:50	nedbat	mike18: if you are talking about requests.get, then responses is the way to do it.
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2021-05-19 12:54:05	mike18	no its libname.get
2021-05-19 12:54:29	mike18	which abstracts requests i think
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2021-05-19 12:54:47	nedbat	mike18: what does it add to requests?
2021-05-19 12:55:03	mike18	it just calls an api
2021-05-19 12:55:07	nedbat	mike18: you might still want to use responses, depending on where you want your boundary of testing to be.
2021-05-19 12:55:11	mike18	formats stuff - etc
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2021-05-19 12:56:35	jayjo	I'm trying to write a middleware that bridges PC/SC (a CCID-compliant reader with a smartcard) and presents it as an HID device. Hopefully a browser can't tell the difference. Can I do this entirely in python? I found some projects for the HID side like https://github.com/apmorton/pyhidapi & https://github.com/libusb/hidapi, and https://github.com/LudovicRousseau/pyscard to interact with the reader. Does
2021-05-19 12:56:41	jayjo	that seem like an OK idea?
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2021-05-19 12:57:15	grawity	a HID device that happens to speak FIDO CTAP?
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2021-05-19 12:57:52	jayjo	that would be great :)
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2021-05-19 12:58:56	grawity	should be possible, but I think you'll need a different module for creating the fake HID device (i.e. supporting the "uhid" API), it's not exactly the same as using an existing hidraw device
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2021-05-19 13:01:23	jayjo	I see what you mean. Something like: https://github.com/FFY00/python-uhid ?
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2021-05-19 13:01:49	grawity	yes
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2021-05-19 13:01:52	mike18	nedbat: like that? https://ideone.com/Hpzypf
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2021-05-19 13:05:34	graingert	mike18: I use https://pypi.org/project/pytest-recording/
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2021-05-19 13:06:23	mike18	whats that?
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2021-05-19 13:07:00	mike18	im not using requsts directly
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2021-05-19 13:07:15	graingert	mike18: automatically mocks requests and others even if you use them indirectly
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2021-05-19 13:07:41	mike18	graingert: but i want to specificy the mock myself...
2021-05-19 13:07:50	SnoopJ	oh neat, I was looking at that last night as I shopped around for a timing plugin
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2021-05-19 13:08:09	SnoopJ	took me a while to realize that it was not literally automation for VCRs
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2021-05-19 13:09:21	mike18	is unittest.mock part of unittest?
2021-05-19 13:09:50	mike18	no mock
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2021-05-19 13:12:37	SnoopJ	speaking of timing plugins for pytest...is pytest-timer the best fit if I just want to know how long execution takes for each test and maybe serialize that info? pytest-benchmark looks interesting but its API seems more granular than I'm interested in.
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2021-05-19 13:13:10	SnoopJ	or would I be better off writing my own autouse fixture?
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2021-05-19 13:19:11	mike18	hi @graingert can you tell me whats wrong here? https://ideone.com/Hpzypf
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2021-05-19 13:21:14	nemo_	you arent importing your T1 module properly it appears
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2021-05-19 13:25:32	mike18	what you mean by not properly?
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2021-05-19 13:26:10	mike18	what about the constructor - will i need to mock it too?
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2021-05-19 13:27:00	greatgatsby	apologies if this has been discussed, any reaction from #python on the hostile freenode takeover?  https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409/
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2021-05-19 13:27:38	supakeen	greatgatsby: See the /topic.
2021-05-19 13:27:55	matsaman	ain't nobody staying here
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2021-05-19 13:27:55	greatgatsby	supakeen, thanks
2021-05-19 13:28:14	CodeMouse92	That said, a lot of folks have already voluntarily made the jump, including many room regulars
2021-05-19 13:28:18	supakeen	In the end #python is where the users are and work is being done on registering the channels over on Libera as well :)
2021-05-19 13:28:18	matsaman	but people might take the opportunity to weigh Libera vs others
2021-05-19 13:28:26	matsaman	s/people/orgs
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2021-05-19 13:28:51	CodeMouse92	I mean, Libera is the same staff as pre-takeover Freenode, soooo...
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2021-05-19 13:29:57	matsaman	they've apparently corrected the primary issue and made some kind of foundation or something with equal shares
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2021-05-19 13:32:50	Bombo	i'm using https://docs.python.org/3/library/smtplib.html to send a mail with starttls, is there a way to tell what cipher is used?
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2021-05-19 13:43:37	SnoopJ	Bombo, I think the ssl.SSLContext object contains that information https://docs.python.org/3/library/ssl.html#ssl.SSLContext.get_ciphers
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2021-05-19 13:44:17	Bombo	SnoopJ: that just lists all available
2021-05-19 13:44:33	SnoopJ	in order of priority yep
2021-05-19 13:45:08	Bombo	but not the one currently in use
2021-05-19 13:45:19	Bombo	for the current connection
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2021-05-19 13:48:17	SnoopJ	Bombo, I think you can look at the .sock attribute on the SMTP object and call .cipher() on it
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2021-05-19 13:48:51	SnoopJ	to see what cipher was actually agreed on (and there's .shared_ciphers() as well if you want to know what the common ones are)
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2021-05-19 13:50:27	mike18	hi is it possible to use a class for a unit test in python?
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2021-05-19 13:50:50	LordKalma	so how's irc drama here?
2021-05-19 13:50:53	mike18	i created: class TestFoo(TestCase): and get E   NameError: name 'TestCase' is not defined
2021-05-19 13:51:11	SnoopJ	mike18, you need to import TestCase from unittest
2021-05-19 13:51:26	mike18	you usually define classes or just funcs?
2021-05-19 13:51:29	mike18	for unittest
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2021-05-19 13:51:58	Bombo	SnoopJ: sounds good if i could figure out how
2021-05-19 13:52:04	SnoopJ	unittest uses subclasses of TestCase
2021-05-19 13:52:46	mike18	sublass?
2021-05-19 13:52:50	SnoopJ	Bombo, I think it's `smtp_obj.starttls(...); print(f"using cipher: {smtp_obj.sock.cipher()}")`
2021-05-19 13:53:34	SnoopJ	mike18, you write a class to contain tests that go together. The docs explain it better than I can: https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html#organizing-test-code
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2021-05-19 13:56:31	Bombo	SnoopJ: AttributeError: 'socket' object has no attribute 'cipher'
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2021-05-19 13:56:55	SnoopJ	Bombo, huh, guess it's not an SSLSocket. What type is that object?
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2021-05-19 13:58:21	yskapell	hello all
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2021-05-19 13:58:42	yskapell	How can I check using beautiful soup if a tag is commented or not?
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2021-05-19 14:00:07	Bombo	SnoopJ: oh it worked AFTER server.starttls() sorry
2021-05-19 14:00:23	Bombo	server = smtplib.SMTP(smtp_server, port)
2021-05-19 14:00:38	SnoopJ	yea, it creates the socket
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2021-05-19 14:00:42	Bombo	using cipher: ('DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA', 'SSLv3', 256)
2021-05-19 14:00:45	Bombo	\o/
2021-05-19 14:00:50	SnoopJ	phew
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2021-05-19 14:07:42	amazoniantoad	Hey guys I'm trying to work with twitter's api for javascript using python (they made changes which broke my old code) and so I'm using burp suite to kinda look at the network traffic and figure out what's going on
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2021-05-19 14:08:12	amazoniantoad	I wrote code to get the trending hashtags and I get a 200 response, but when I search the code of the page I don't actually see the trending hashtags embedded in the code
2021-05-19 14:08:26	amazoniantoad	Could someone look at what I've done and give me some suggestions?
2021-05-19 14:08:27	amazoniantoad	https://pastebin.com/rSZUQW8w
2021-05-19 14:08:28	infobob	https://bpaste.net/UDEQ (repasted for amazoniantoad)
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2021-05-19 14:12:37	Bombo	SnoopJ: thank ;)
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2021-05-19 14:13:02	amazoniantoad	I should be seeing the tweets embedded in https://twitter.com/i/trends
2021-05-19 14:13:05	amazoniantoad	But I don't
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2021-05-19 14:13:32	Bombo	SnoopJ: while server.sock.cipher() shows SSLv3, server.sock.version() shows TLSv1
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2021-05-19 14:14:32	dez	is there a way to, in plotly, display all values in a marker
2021-05-19 14:14:36	dez	like on hover
2021-05-19 14:14:41	dez	but all the time
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2021-05-19 14:16:15	Bombo	Returns a three-value tuple containing the name of the cipher being used, the version of the SSL protocol that defines its use,
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2021-05-19 14:16:40	SnoopJ	Bombo, sounds weird
2021-05-19 14:16:45	Bombo	'that defines its use' what does that mean
2021-05-19 14:16:59	SnoopJ	"The version that defines [the cipher]"
2021-05-19 14:17:10	Bombo	 SSLSocket.version() Return the actual SSL protocol version negotiated
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2021-05-19 14:18:06	Bombo	SnoopJ: like 'we want SSLv3 but we got TLSv1'
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2021-05-19 14:18:39	Bombo	SnoopJ: 'normally this cipher uses SSLv3, but we negotiated TLSv1' ?
2021-05-19 14:18:40	Bombo	;)
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2021-05-19 14:18:44	Bombo	hmm
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2021-05-19 14:19:16	SnoopJ	I think it may be the other way around, since TLSv1 is an upgrade of SSLv3
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2021-05-19 14:21:11	Bombo	TLSv1 is a replacement of SSLv3?
2021-05-19 14:21:19	nanonyme	TLSv1.2 is
2021-05-19 14:21:28	nanonyme	Anything below that are deprecated
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2021-05-19 14:21:51	nanonyme	Would be globally decommissioned but coronavirus delayed things
2021-05-19 14:21:53	mike18	SnoopJ: can i also patch a constructor of a class?
2021-05-19 14:22:01	mike18	aka mock
2021-05-19 14:22:08	SnoopJ	mike18, yes
2021-05-19 14:22:14	mike18	how?
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2021-05-19 14:22:18	SnoopJ	"mock" and "patch" are not synonyms, though
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2021-05-19 14:23:44	SnoopJ	mike18, usually you do that by wrapping/replacing __init__ on that function, if that's what you mean by constructor
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2021-05-19 14:24:07	mike18	example is here: SnoopJ https://ideone.com/0NRIn0
2021-05-19 14:24:36	mike18	the T1() constuctor does some sort of login from what i see... i need to mock that
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2021-05-19 14:25:47	nedbat	mike18: you don't need to mock that line, you wrote that line.  You can just construct some other object instead
2021-05-19 14:25:58	mike18	how to contruct that object?
2021-05-19 14:26:13	mike18	self.t1 = T1('', '') ... does a login in here
2021-05-19 14:26:28	nedbat	mike18: sorry, maybe this is what you meant.  You can replace that line with  self.t1 = mock(...something...)
2021-05-19 14:27:16	mike18	im not sure what to mock it with btw
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2021-05-19 14:28:49	nedbat	mike18: maybe we should take a step back.  This test is going to create a mock object, and then call a method on it, and test that it returned something. Where is the real code that's being tested?
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2021-05-19 14:30:08	mike18	i want to mock that t1.get() (which calls an api) in a unit test which uses t1 object
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2021-05-19 14:32:06	nedbat	mike18: are you trying to test the code inside the T1 class?  What code are you testing?
2021-05-19 14:32:16	mike18	no
2021-05-19 14:32:22	mike18	im testing the code around that
2021-05-19 14:32:27	mike18	which uses that t1 stuff
2021-05-19 14:32:33	mike18	thats why i mock that t1 stuck
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2021-05-19 14:32:38	nedbat	mike18: this paste doesn't show that, right?
2021-05-19 14:32:59	mike18	i just trying to mock that t1 func for beginning
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2021-05-19 14:33:09	mike18	before i add it
2021-05-19 14:33:16	nedbat	ok, that's a yes :)
2021-05-19 14:33:29	mike18	yes
2021-05-19 14:33:50	mike18	self.t1.get will be called by a different class
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2021-05-19 14:34:00	mike18	but thats not relevant before i make that work
2021-05-19 14:34:09	nedbat	mike18: how does that class get its T1 instance?
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2021-05-19 14:34:43	mike18	by self.t1 = T1('','') ...
2021-05-19 14:34:52	mike18	where the parameters need to be passed atm
2021-05-19 14:35:02	mike18	need to check if there is a way to avoid passing it
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2021-05-19 14:37:30	nedbat	mike18: but your class under test: the test will pass self.t1 to it? That class accepts a T1 instance to work with?
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2021-05-19 14:38:28	mike18	that class calls self.t1 = T1(user, password) and than self.t1.get(...) ...
2021-05-19 14:39:00	mike18	so same as in the test i constructed in the paste
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2021-05-19 14:39:28	mike18	i can change that and pass a t1 object into that
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2021-05-19 14:39:39	mike18	if thats simpler for overall test
2021-05-19 14:41:10	mike18	nedbat: at the moment the class under test constructs its own t1 object in the contructor
2021-05-19 14:41:43	mike18	but i can pass the t1 object from outside
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2021-05-19 14:50:18	nedbat	mike18: or you can leave the code as is, and mock that_class_file.T1
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2021-05-19 14:50:25	mike18	i know what to do :)
2021-05-19 14:50:33	mike18	i can mock the login the T1 object does
2021-05-19 14:50:37	mike18	with response mock
2021-05-19 14:50:44	mike18	and create a fake login
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2021-05-19 14:56:57	Omega037	I guess this is goodbye everyone.  So long Freenode, thanks for the memories.
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2021-05-19 15:21:02	todda7	in pandas, say you have three columns, Animal, Color, Name
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2021-05-19 15:21:29	todda7	How to get a tree-like count for how many has the same animal (ie species), color and name?
2021-05-19 15:21:40	todda7	Dog, Gray, Fido:  5
2021-05-19 15:21:45	todda7	Dog, Brown Fido:  3
2021-05-19 15:21:58	todda7	Cat, Brown Maximus:  3
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2021-05-19 15:23:41	KirkMcDonald	todda7: Does it need to be tree-like? Or is a count of each of the unique (animal, color, name) tuples sufficient?
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2021-05-19 15:24:02	todda7	KirkMcDonald: latter
2021-05-19 15:24:08	KirkMcDonald	Because you can just do that with collections.Counter()
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2021-05-19 15:24:38	KirkMcDonald	Oh, in Pandas.
2021-05-19 15:24:44	KirkMcDonald	Sorry, I missed that part.
2021-05-19 15:24:55	KirkMcDonald	I have no particular knowledge of Pandas.
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2021-05-19 15:48:18	mat001_	Any idea how I could pass a varaible value from unittest setUp() method into a decorator above the test function?
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2021-05-19 15:49:06	bjs	mat001_: if unittest setUp there's usually a class involved, so setUp would write self.blah and then the decorator can just read self.blah
2021-05-19 15:49:13	mat001_	Anything inside setUp() is used as self.myvariable inside tests. but not sure how to pass that intoa decorator. "self" is not recognized
2021-05-19 15:49:27	bjs	mat001_: it's the first argument to the function being decorated.
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2021-05-19 15:49:46	bjs	it's not anything magical, the decorator returns a new function, and that new function can just read the arguments like any other
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2021-05-19 15:51:23	bjs	mat001_: here's a little example of decorating a method and the wrapper reading self https://bpa.st/X6RQ
2021-05-19 15:51:33	mat001_	yeah, except that the decorator itself doesn't haev the "self" as the first argument
2021-05-19 15:51:56	nedbat	mat001_: can you say more about what this decorator does and what the variable is?
2021-05-19 15:52:18	mat001_	yeah, one sec
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2021-05-19 15:55:30	mat001_	the decorator is from Hypothesis property based testing lib. It takes in "strategies", meaning text or integers, or dicts that fuzz (randomize) values inside the test
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2021-05-19 15:58:28	mat001_	You see how "GoalData"dict was fuzzed here in this example? https://hypothesis.readthedocs.io/en/latest/examples.html#fuzzing-an-http-api  And then Goaldata fuzzed dict was passed into the test test_create_goal_dry_run. This tested many diff inputs in the dict
2021-05-19 15:58:36	mat001_	I'm doing smth similar.
2021-05-19 15:58:59	mat001_	GoalData was passed into the @given decorator
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2021-05-19 15:59:37	--	Mode #python [+o supakeen] by ChanServ
2021-05-19 15:59:56	mat001_	Now, imagine that GoalData dict was created inside the setUp()
2021-05-19 16:00:03	--	Mode #python [-o supakeen] by ChanServ
2021-05-19 16:00:05	mat001_	^^ this is my case
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2021-05-19 16:12:16	mat001_	My code here if it helps. The content of the setUp() needs to go into the "@given" decorator. That's where I get studk https://bpa.st/TAJA
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2021-05-19 16:23:58	lidless	https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409
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2021-05-19 16:26:07	nedbat	mat001_: i think you would solve that by writing your own decorator that used @given internally on the wrapped function.
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2021-05-19 16:28:46	mat001_	nedbat: ty, so a decorator around the test with @given
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2021-05-19 16:34:16	nedbat	mat001_: i haven't tried writing the code, but I think you would need to write a decorator that would use @given inside, and would replace @given on the test.
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2021-05-19 16:35:01	bjs	mat001_: nedbat: it would seem that you'd need to call given() each time you call the function,  to read the config there and then and call given() with the right arguments.
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2021-05-19 16:47:58	indigoblue	any suggestiong for ways I can sort out dependency issues / mysterious segfaults for a python program? I have no idea where to look.
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2021-05-19 16:48:23	indigoblue	I'm guessing it's segfaulting due to a mismatch in deps, but to be honest I have no idea what to look for
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2021-05-19 16:54:52	supremekai	Hey guys, in your opinion what would be the library you recommend to access postgresql dbs?
2021-05-19 16:55:05	supakeen	psycopg2
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2021-05-19 16:55:55	SnoopJ	indigoblue, you might try re-running with gdb to get a look at the stack trace. Here's a sample of what that looks like: https://bpaste.net/I5CQ (the way to read that stack trace: most recent at top, showing the segfault happening inside ctypes; the ?? parts are interpreter guts that got optimized out, I think)
2021-05-19 16:56:23	SnoopJ	can be tricky if you don't know gdb but it at least helps identify what was going on at the time of the fault
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2021-05-19 16:59:21	indigoblue	SnoopJ: thank you for the suggestion. I'll give it a shot.
2021-05-19 16:59:22	supremekai	thnks supakeen
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2021-05-19 18:16:30	nomic	<HenryClay> ^ Freenode IRC staff resign en masse, unhappy about new management • The Register
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2021-05-19 18:20:16	CodeMouse92	That's putting it mildly
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2021-05-19 18:20:32	amogorkon	first time freenode is in the press?
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2021-05-19 18:20:45	CodeMouse92	Unlikely it's the *first* time
2021-05-19 18:20:55	amogorkon	first time in a long while though
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2021-05-19 18:22:41	nacelle	or just "freenode is in the press again and its been a while", the first bit is a bit misleading in that context.
2021-05-19 18:22:53	nomic	https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/19/freenode_staff_resigns/
2021-05-19 18:22:59	nomic	no its everywhere
2021-05-19 18:23:03	nomic	register is just  wut i r ead
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2021-05-19 18:40:45	mefistofeles	any good quick way to store a dictionary as a multiline json ? (I did the usual json.dump but that ends up in a single line)
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2021-05-19 18:41:04	nedbat	mefistofeles: json.dump(obj, f, indent=4)
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2021-05-19 18:41:14	mefistofeles	nedbat: oh, thanks!
2021-05-19 18:41:20	mefistofeles	I should've checked the dump options
2021-05-19 18:41:21	mefistofeles	:P
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2021-05-19 19:05:26	duszek	global imagenr = -1
2021-05-19 19:05:30	duszek	What's wrong here?
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2021-05-19 19:08:13	jnsnow	duszek: you probably want "global imagenr" and "imagenr = -1" on two separate lines, but even more likely that you don't want to be using globals at all
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2021-05-19 19:08:33	duszek	jnsnow: where it is documented?
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2021-05-19 19:09:02	jnsnow	What kind of documentation are you hoping to find?
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2021-05-19 19:10:57	jnsnow	duszek: https://docs.python.org/3.9/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-global-statement is what the official docs have to say about "global"
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2021-05-19 19:11:22	duszek	don't get that for now, but thank for that
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2021-05-19 19:12:33	jnsnow	https://www.programiz.com/python-programming/global-keyword might be more illustrative
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2021-05-19 19:14:13	jnsnow	you *usually* don't actually need the global keyword. If you just want to *read* a variable from an outer scope, you can just use it. If you want to *modify* one you need to use 'global' or 'nonlocal' but I would advise against doing that unless you are very confident you know what you are doing
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2021-05-19 19:14:23	Ashburry	é/help /raw
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2021-05-19 19:16:32	 *	CrtxReavr really dislikes how the global keyword works.
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2021-05-19 19:17:07	CrtxReavr	If I need variables, I need to access anywhere, I just create a class for them.
2021-05-19 19:17:27	CrtxReavr	class G: ; foo = 5
2021-05-19 19:17:36	CrtxReavr	You can access G.foo anywhere.
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2021-05-19 19:18:00	jnsnow	They're definitely weird, and of very limited actual use that isn't better served by a more idiomatic design ...usually
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2021-05-19 19:21:05	nedbat	CrtxReavr: you could also do that with "foo = 5" and access "foo" anywhere, no?
2021-05-19 19:21:46	jnsnow	access yes, mutate no
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2021-05-19 19:21:54	CrtxReavr	Well. . . left aligned vars should be constants, no?
2021-05-19 19:22:01	nedbat	left-aligned?
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2021-05-19 19:22:18	CrtxReavr	I think you know what I mean.
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2021-05-19 19:22:35	nedbat	CrtxReavr: top-level in the module?
2021-05-19 19:22:37	jnsnow	"variables declared at module scope"
2021-05-19 19:22:55	nedbat	CrtxReavr: i guess you mean not just access but assign to them also
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2021-05-19 19:23:03	 *	CrtxReavr goes back to writing this MOP as opposed to splitting hairs.
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2021-05-19 19:23:32	nedbat	CrtxReavr: i wasn't trying to split hairs, i was trying to understand what you meant.
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2021-05-19 19:40:24	Samian	anyone know a library that rasterizes triangles (a list of tuples, each consisting of 3 3d coordinate points) to a 2d numpy array?
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2021-05-19 19:40:37	Samian	on the cpu?
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2021-05-19 19:48:19	testnode	hi all,
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2021-05-19 19:49:33	testnode	How to convert this ?  https://bpa.st/2LBQ
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2021-05-19 19:50:38	Yhg1s	testnode: tuple(t[0] for t in your_tuple)
2021-05-19 19:50:55	Yhg1s	testnode: or, change whatever code is producing the tuple of 1-tuples
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2021-05-19 19:52:25	testnode	Yhg1s    thanks
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2021-05-19 20:21:17	Numero-6	hi all, i try to work a code i have read, but the syntax is wrong, that in python3 https://dpaste.org/g01M
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2021-05-19 20:21:42	Numero-6	i wrote in bash, i'm begging in python
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2021-05-19 20:22:07	Numero-6	but the syntax is very strict, and that change with python 2 or python3
2021-05-19 20:22:37	Numero-6	For read a code python in book, and write in the computer that complicated
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2021-05-19 20:23:34	nedbat	Numero-6: do you have an error report?
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2021-05-19 20:24:13	Numero-6	yea syntax
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2021-05-19 20:24:23	Numero-6	but i have look and rewrite the code
2021-05-19 20:24:30	Numero-6	but i understand nothing
2021-05-19 20:24:37	nedbat	Numero-6: can you share the error report?
2021-05-19 20:24:51	Numero-6	the info = [ that a liste ? but that not the syntax for a list on python3
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2021-05-19 20:25:33	Numero-6	wait i go send what exactly i read
2021-05-19 20:25:35	nedbat	Numero-6: oh, line 3 is incomplete.  maybe it should be:  info = []
2021-05-19 20:26:16	yeticheese	Are there any C extension wizards who might be able to help with the following problem? There is a C extension I'm using that has a bug in it and I know the input that causes the bug to surface.  I also know the name of the function in the C extension where the bug must be, but I'm not sure how it arises exactly. I'd like to use gdb and initially make the call into the extension from python, but afterwards single step my way through the
2021-05-19 20:26:16	yeticheese	 C extension's code so I can figure out what's going on
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2021-05-19 20:26:25	yeticheese	turning out to be pretty complicated to do
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2021-05-19 20:27:46	Numero-6	that wrote like this in the book
2021-05-19 20:27:50	Numero-6	https://dpaste.org/Fc2p
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2021-05-19 20:28:19	Numero-6	look the info = [ ??? what is alist but no ,omg i have past 4 hours on
2021-05-19 20:29:37	grym	Numero-6: i think you want info = []
2021-05-19 20:29:46	grym	er, infos = []
2021-05-19 20:29:50	Numero-6	yeathat maybe an error in the book
2021-05-19 20:30:00	Numero-6	i see only infos = [
2021-05-19 20:30:02	grym	seems like
2021-05-19 20:30:17	Numero-6	so i thinked that a list and he have missed the , and ]
2021-05-19 20:30:47	grym	just the ]
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2021-05-19 20:31:45	Numero-6	ok i test to add infos = []
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2021-05-19 20:32:47	Numero-6	thankkk
2021-05-19 20:32:59	Numero-6	omg i have past 4 hours on the python 3 syntax
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2021-05-19 20:33:49	Numero-6	so the infos = [] is like an array in bash ? for make a variable ?
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2021-05-19 20:33:55	grym	that's not py3 specific, that's how you create an empty list in py2, as well
2021-05-19 20:33:58	grym	Numero-6: it's a list
2021-05-19 20:34:28	nedbat	Numero-6: it's called a list, but it's the same as an array in bash (and other languages)
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2021-05-19 20:35:03	Numero-6	i realy want learn more python so i make little project, the syntax is very rude ahah
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2021-05-19 20:35:15	Numero-6	and i learn only python3
2021-05-19 20:35:44	grym	Numero-6: yes, py2 is out of date now
2021-05-19 20:36:09	Numero-6	yea that complicated with the doc sometimes
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2021-05-19 20:38:53	grym	https://docs.python.org/3/  is what you want
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2021-05-19 20:45:43	Numero-6	thank i be back i go read thisss
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2021-05-19 21:06:21	mike18	hi, how can i import a package which is under ./tests/unit/request_path.py inside ./tests/unit/test_foo/test_foo.py ?
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2021-05-19 21:14:14	mike18	can you use relative paths?
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2021-05-19 21:21:50	mike18	i see: ImportError: attempted relative import with no known parent package
2021-05-19 21:22:22	grym	mike18: touch tests/__init__.py
2021-05-19 21:23:02	mike18	its in tests/unit/__init__.py and tests/unit/request_path.py
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2021-05-19 21:23:13	mike18	but how you can use that in tests/unit/test_foo/test_foo.py ?
2021-05-19 21:23:16	grym	"it"
2021-05-19 21:23:46	mike18	it is
2021-05-19 21:24:22	mike18	from ..requests_patch import patched_extract_cookies_to_jar ?
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2021-05-19 21:29:59	mike18	    from ...requests_patch import patched_extract_cookies_to_jar
2021-05-19 21:29:59	mike18	E   ImportError: attempted relative import beyond top-level package
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2021-05-19 21:30:06	mike18	grym: now i see the msg above
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2021-05-19 21:58:57	mike18	grym: is there a way to use relative import here?
2021-05-19 21:59:09	mike18	i always get: E   ImportError: attempted relative import beyond top-level package
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2021-05-19 22:06:40	grym	mike18: i don't use relative imports
2021-05-19 22:06:44	grym	they confuse me
2021-05-19 22:07:10	mike18	but how to import something in my unit test than?
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2021-05-19 22:11:50	grym	tests.unit.test_foo.
2021-05-19 22:11:51	grym	as usual
2021-05-19 22:12:06	grym	the root package name is "tests", that's all
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2021-05-19 22:15:24	mike18	grym: seems to work with relative path now - filename was wrong
2021-05-19 22:15:48	mike18	import tests.unit.test_foo ?
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2021-05-19 22:16:19	mike18	let me also try: from tests.unit.requests_patch import patched_extract_cookies_to_jar
2021-05-19 22:16:39	mike18	the file is under tests/unit/requests_patch.py
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2021-05-19 22:18:28	mike18	grym: looks like i read bad code than which uses relative paths...
2021-05-19 22:18:30	mike18	hm
2021-05-19 22:18:36	mike18	the absolute path works fine too
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2021-05-19 22:49:46	Numero-6	I have a question, i want make a python3 server for comunicate with my phone, i just want can send data (link, word, username) to the server for i can use on the computer
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2021-05-19 22:50:29	Numero-6	I turn in circle because i don't want use an app, i want make with python3, but i don't know what is the best idea
2021-05-19 22:50:46	jacks	try python -m http.server
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2021-05-19 22:50:55	Numero-6	yea i know that lol
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2021-05-19 22:51:41	Numero-6	i can maybe make an html page for enter the text in, and that show by server
2021-05-19 22:51:51	wyoung	Do it!
2021-05-19 22:52:01	Numero-6	I don't know what doing
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2021-05-19 22:53:49	wyoung	I don't know what you're doing either
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2021-05-19 22:56:05	Numero-6	:{
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2021-05-19 22:58:11	Numero-6	I want make a server web, for receivd ASCII text and log it in server
2021-05-19 22:58:13	wyoung	Numero-6: Can you give us more information perhaps?
2021-05-19 22:58:31	FunkyBob	Numero-6: sort of like a pastebin?
2021-05-19 22:58:52	Numero-6	i have make an begging but i don't know if i follow the good road
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2021-05-19 22:59:41	wyoung	I don't think that translated correctly.
2021-05-19 22:59:54	Numero-6	i'm in my phone, i want enter an url of my local python server, and put data for show in the server and log it
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2021-05-19 23:00:37	Numero-6	like : http://localhost:8080/hey that the data you want put in server
2021-05-19 23:01:09	Numero-6	Or make an html page like : http://localhost:8080/putdatainthispage.html
2021-05-19 23:01:11	wyoung	so you want to fill out a webform and click submit / send?  Or you want to make a RESTful style API to send to your server?
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2021-05-19 23:02:42	Numero-6	the easy way, just a server that show the get like a string, or an html page with an case for enter the data and show/save in the server
2021-05-19 23:02:53	Numero-6	complicated to explain sorry for my language
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2021-05-19 23:03:34	Samian	hi. I'm looking for a vscode extension that provides a dropdown where I can select a commit, and all new code / modifications are highlighted in the main code editor window. Anyone know of such a tool?
2021-05-19 23:04:04	Samian	that way if I want to see what's changed since 3 commits back, it would be easy to do
2021-05-19 23:04:18	Samian	I don't like diff mode because it's not the same as the regular coding mode
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2021-05-19 23:04:59	Numero-6	wyoung: say me if you have understand, that an easy project no an farm
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2021-05-19 23:07:18	Numero-6	i always run again this project and i have never find that amazing
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2021-05-19 23:08:35	SnoopJ	Samian, I know GitLens has some tools that do things a bit like that, not sure it would do exactly what you want, but it's a good integration
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2021-05-19 23:21:49	Numero-6	wyoung: webform and click submit / send that it !
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2021-05-19 23:37:19	Samian	SnoopJ,  from what I'm seeing, gitlens shows differences in the code editor. I want to see which files have changed in the navigation tree
2021-05-19 23:37:28	SnoopJ	Samian, it does both
2021-05-19 23:37:36	SnoopJ	I mostly use it for the former
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2021-05-19 23:38:15	SnoopJ	(it adds a blame line to whatever line the cursor is on, which is frequently super helpful)
2021-05-19 23:38:49	SnoopJ	and in looking through the docs for your question I see that you can get it to display some indication of relative age of code, which sounds interesting
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2021-05-19 23:39:30	baldpope	anyone here use the pymsteams library and familiar with sending messages to the webhook connector through teams?
2021-05-19 23:39:51	baldpope	or a diff library and sending messages through teams
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2021-05-19 23:42:51	Guest20	hi there i have a condition in the except block
2021-05-19 23:42:53	Guest20	that is failing
2021-05-19 23:43:02	Guest20	how to tackle that as well
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2021-05-19 23:43:34	baldpope	Guest20, you'd need to provide some sample code to review first
2021-05-19 23:43:41	baldpope	pastebin is your friend
2021-05-19 23:44:40	SnoopJ	bpaste is nice too: https://bpaste.net/+python+pytb
2021-05-19 23:44:47	Guest20	baldpope https://pasteboard.co/K2I34Fs.png
2021-05-19 23:44:50	Guest20	aah
2021-05-19 23:45:13	Guest20	https://dpaste.org/JMur
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2021-05-19 23:45:36	SnoopJ	Guest20, a "bare" `except` is usually a bad idea for exactly the reason that's causing you to ask: it hides the exception!
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2021-05-19 23:45:57	Guest20	what can i do here
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2021-05-19 23:47:15	SnoopJ	Guest20, I would rewrite the handler to be `except Exception as exc:` and log the exception (`traceback.format_exc()` may be useful here), but you could also drop into a debugger there or what-have-you.
2021-05-19 23:47:32	djapo	jupyter lab doesn't work with python 3.9
2021-05-19 23:47:41	djapo	whats up with that.
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2021-05-19 23:50:45	SnoopJ	djapo, it most certainly does. Can you describe the failure you're seeing? Seeing the complete error report (if any) would be good.
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2021-05-19 23:51:46	djapo	SnoopJ: im recreating my venv to see if that fixes it, the error had to do with b64 encoding. will paste soon
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2021-05-19 23:53:06	SnoopJ	djapo, be careful to check *which* jupyterlab is being invoked if you have a copy installed outside that venv, too, especially if it's an older version.
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2021-05-19 23:56:05	Samian	argh does vscode not allow pasting in a file's full path to open a file?
2021-05-19 23:56:12	Samian	I have to click through shit
2021-05-19 23:56:14	Samian	I don't want to click
2021-05-19 23:56:42	Samian	if a file is 10 folders deep, I don't want to click through the folders!
2021-05-19 23:56:45	Samian	that's a productivity killer
2021-05-19 23:56:50	Wafficus	GUYS WE NEED TO MOVE TO LIBERA
2021-05-19 23:57:00	Samian	vscode on ubuntu is trash horrible crap
2021-05-19 23:57:13	Samian	efff ubuntu sorry but windows is better. you get what you pay for!
2021-05-19 23:57:25	 *	Samian misses git tortoise
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2021-05-19 23:58:47	Samian	https://imgur.com/a/1emyzZl
2021-05-19 23:58:48	Samian	see that!?!?
2021-05-19 23:59:07	Samian	I feel like I'm walking in the dark blind folded the way I have to navigate through the file system in vscode ubuntu!!!!
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2021-05-20 00:00:06	abesab	Samian, that's the window manager software's fault on Ubuntu, not vscode, if I'm not mistaken
2021-05-20 00:00:54	djapo	SnoopJ: https://dpaste.com/9XZMHXNRK
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2021-05-20 00:02:08	abesab	Samian, in vscode after you hit ctrl-O, try ctrl-L within that file open dialog
2021-05-20 00:02:10	djapo	the problem is with nbformat
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2021-05-20 00:02:20	abesab	Then you should be able to paste your file path
2021-05-20 00:02:23	Samian	abesab,  both of their fault. if it was me being paid to write something professional, if it's not in ubuntu, I'd need to custom code it
2021-05-20 00:02:47	Samian	yes thanks abesab
2021-05-20 00:03:11	Samian	another failure of ubuntu to follow the principle out-of-sight,out-of-mind.  in-sight-in-mind.
2021-05-20 00:03:19	abesab	Samian, yw, was a quick web search away for me
2021-05-20 00:03:26	djapo	ooh, ok. I just had to upgrade that package
2021-05-20 00:04:00	Samian	abesab,  ah why didn't I think of that. I need to go to sleep I'm juiced out for the day
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2021-05-20 00:04:28	Samian	still, it's annoying that there's the appearance of it not being possible
2021-05-20 00:04:40	Samian	why not an empty bar always in the file open dialog?
2021-05-20 00:05:06	mike18	hi i have a hard time to read this python func. how does the data need to look like to pass it to that func? https://ideone.com/KjxV4t
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2021-05-20 00:07:47	KirkMcDonald	mike18: Looks like it wants an iterable of... something with a get_formdata() method, whatever that is.
2021-05-20 00:08:07	mike18	it seems to call an url?
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2021-05-20 00:36:13	NeilG	what's the best way to validate a dataclass?
2021-05-20 00:36:23	NeilG	def __post_init__(self): assert whatever?
2021-05-20 00:36:32	NeilG	or is there a better way?
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2021-05-20 00:48:51	average	okay, i just dropped my account on Freenode, switching to Libera
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2021-05-20 00:51:31	ente_	yeah same
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2021-05-20 00:55:14	mrmachine	are `if foo in some_set:` and `len(some_set)` and `list(some_set)` atomic, and therefore safe from `Set changed size during iteration` errors in a multi-threaded environment (twisted)?
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2021-05-20 01:17:15	gitesh_	look at this code - https://dpaste.org/uwLs
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2021-05-20 01:17:29	gitesh_	how's it changing line variable?
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2021-05-20 01:17:49	mdk	mrmachine: some_set being a Python set?
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2021-05-20 01:17:59	gitesh_	if re.search('^X\S*: [0-9.]+', line): <-------- is changing line variable
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2021-05-20 01:18:29	mdk	gitesh_: what make you think so?
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2021-05-20 01:19:02	gitesh_	mdk: because I'm printing line on the next line
2021-05-20 01:19:17	gitesh_	and the line is printing what i want
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2021-05-20 01:20:08	mdk	gitesh_: your print is in the `if re.search` so it is only executed when re.search find something
2021-05-20 01:20:08	gitesh_	mdk: oh i see
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2021-05-20 01:20:13	mdk	this does not mean `line` is being changed ?
2021-05-20 01:20:18	gitesh_	i got it , it's just a line
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2021-05-20 01:21:02	mdk	gitesh_: strings in python are immutable, so don't worry in the future, there's no change a function call change a string
2021-05-20 01:21:10	mdk	s/change/chance/
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2021-05-20 01:28:01	mrmachine	mdk: yes, `some_set` being a python set that may change size via thread (twisted)
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2021-05-20 01:34:53	jacks	hi, i have a byte class object b'foo' but im trying to pass it to a string format() if i try decode I get "TypeError: decoding to str: need a bytes-like object, NoneType found"
2021-05-20 01:36:15	jacks	i've tried decode(), str() etc doesn't seem to work
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2021-05-20 01:37:29	Stonefruit	I have a C library I am using via a Cython wrapper in some script. the script works fine python 3.6 and 3.8, but breaks in 3.9 with the error: "ImportError: /../../triplet_omp.cpython-39-x86_64-linux-gnu.so: undefined symbol: tgetent" from googling I gather this means there's an issue with linking to ncurses, but I specifically do in setup.py...
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2021-05-20 01:37:36	Stonefruit	any idea on what it could be?
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2021-05-20 01:40:04	JAA	jacks: Decoding works fine, e.g. `print('a {}'.format(o.decode('ascii')))` (where `o` is your object)
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2021-05-20 01:44:17	jacks	JAA: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'
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2021-05-20 01:45:13	JAA	jacks: Then `o` is `None` rather than a bytes object.
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2021-05-20 01:46:00	JAA	And I realise now that your first message already said that: 'NoneType found'
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2021-05-20 01:47:20	jacks	if i use print(type(channel)) it prints <class 'bytes'>
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2021-05-20 01:51:30	xorloser	I have an object containing a list and i want to be able to iterate over the object to iterate over the list. I added a method 'def __iter__(self): return iter(self.mylist)'. However I have noticed that the returned iterator doesnt seem to get reset between uses. ie if i have two for loops in a row that iterate over my object and the first for loop stops iterating halfway through, the second
2021-05-20 01:51:30	xorloser	for loop will start iterating where the first one left off rather than iterating from the start. Why is this happening and how can i fix it? I thought return iter(list) would create a new iterator each time.
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2021-05-20 01:52:33	KirkMcDonald	xorloser: Hard to say without seeing a complete example.
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2021-05-20 01:52:53	KirkMcDonald	xorloser: Though the obvious question is, are you sure it's a list?
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2021-05-20 01:56:42	SALstar	Hello. Why 'import sys;for i in range(10):print(None)' is invalid syntax on "for" and without import or without for it's valid?
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2021-05-20 02:01:16	Zy64Jw	2+2-5
2021-05-20 02:01:20	Zy64Jw	2+2=5
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2021-05-20 02:04:38	KirkMcDonald	SALstar: You can't use ; with compound statements.
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2021-05-20 02:07:06	xorloser	KirkMcDonald: while making a simple example i found the iterator does get 'reset' as i would expect, so it must be some other issue :)
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2021-05-20 02:07:41	akoana	SALstar: are you trying that from the shell like python3 -c "import sys..." ?
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2021-05-20 02:08:50	acresearch	people, i am trying to install pyassimp but after it install i get a strange error, just by importing the library, what is going on?
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2021-05-20 02:08:59	SALstar	akoana: Yes. I am tryning to parse multiple json data: postqueue -j | python3 -c "import sys,json; for row in sys.stdin.readlines(): print(json.loads(row))"
2021-05-20 02:09:44	akoana	you can insert newlines, like  python3 -c $'import sys;\nfor i in range(10):print(None)'
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2021-05-20 02:09:58	akoana	(at least that works with bash)
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2021-05-20 02:11:08	SALstar	akoana: Thanks.
2021-05-20 02:11:42	akoana	you don't even need the ; before \n ...
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2021-05-20 02:37:04	chard7a	Is there a model can parse sql script?
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2021-05-20 02:37:43	chard7a	like i want get values from Insert into
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2021-05-20 02:38:28	chard7a	INSERT INTO tb_a VALUES ('),(','ccc',2,'2002-1-1')
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2021-05-20 02:39:02	sartan	you have a sql script (like a backup) and want to make a model out of it?
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2021-05-20 02:39:14	chard7a	i will get ),( ccc 2 2002-1-1
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2021-05-20 02:39:30	chard7a	yes
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2021-05-20 02:40:18	chard7a	i don't want to restore back to database
2021-05-20 02:40:53	sartan	I don't know of any libraries that can do this
2021-05-20 02:41:08	sartan	Parsing  it yourself would be pretty painful to unravel the dsl
2021-05-20 02:41:56	chard7a	that's true
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2021-05-20 02:51:44	raek	sqlite allows you to create an in-memory database (use ":memory:" as the filename). if you use that, you can run the insert commands and then select the table. only downside is that all the data needs to fit in memory
2021-05-20 02:51:59	raek	and sqlite is included in python
2021-05-20 02:52:10	akoana	chard7a: what do you expect to get for  INSERT INTO tb_a VALUES ('),(','a b c ',2,'2002-1-1') ?
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2021-05-20 02:52:55	akoana	that is for strings containing blanks?
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2021-05-20 02:54:25	raek	import sqlite3   db = sqlite.connect(":memory:")   c = db.cursor()   c.executescript(string_with_insert_statements)   c.execute("SELECT * FROM table_name")   data = c.fecthall()
2021-05-20 02:54:31	raek	chard7a: ^
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2021-05-20 02:56:29	raek	after you run db.close() the temporary data is gone (I took the liberty to interpret "restore back to database" to mean "restore to a persistent database")
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2021-05-20 02:58:44	sanketdg	I am creating a web API using Tornado that looks something like this https://bpa.st/E7AQ As you can see a lot of code is just duplicated, what is a good direction to start refactoring this, espescially the try/catch blocks?
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2021-05-20 03:13:56	chard7a	:raek thanks
2021-05-20 03:13:57	BrenBarn	I mean you can factor that out into a function, right?
2021-05-20 03:13:58	BrenBarn	a method on your class I mean
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2021-05-20 03:14:39	chard7a	:reak but mysql script process to sqlite also have a big problem
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2021-05-20 03:17:53	chard7a	my idea was use regex like this :((?<=\')[^\']*(?=\'\,))|((?<=\,)[^\,][0-9]?(?=\,))|(NULL)|((?<=\,\')[^\,\']*(?=\'))
2021-05-20 03:18:17	chard7a	but still have some bugs
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2021-05-20 03:25:32	mihael	with json.dumps I get the list object as string "[{}]". How do I iterate through it so when I write it to a file the format will be {...} on each line?
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2021-05-20 03:28:33	Gurkenglas	Can you recommend an ETA library that calculates not a point estimate but a probability distribution?
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2021-05-20 03:28:51	stranac	mihael: loop and json.dumps() each item to the file
2021-05-20 03:28:53	nop	what is an ETA library?
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2021-05-20 03:29:24	Gurkenglas	nop, a (python) library that estimates how long something will take to complete
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2021-05-20 03:29:41	nop	based on?
2021-05-20 03:29:51	mihael	stranac: Just got it,  f.write('\n'.join(json.dumps(route) for route in routes))
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2021-05-20 03:30:03	chard7a	f.write(json.dumps(value, sort_keys=True, indent=0 ) f.write('\n')
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2021-05-20 03:31:27	Gurkenglas	nop, a simple implementation is remaining_time = remaining_work/done_work * time_so_far. Less simple implementations could depend on the history of how long each item so far has taken, or even as much data as you can fit into a neural net.
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2021-05-20 03:32:38	alexhugo	is there any new interesting library for python out there
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2021-05-20 03:33:18	Gurkenglas	For example if the first % took 60 seconds and the next 49 took 1 second each, much of the probability mass for how long the last 50 items will take should be on "50 seconds remain".
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2021-05-20 03:34:52	nop	Gurkenglas: interesting. we just give users an estimate based on the formula you gave
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2021-05-20 03:36:36	Gurkenglas	The library might gather stats on its performance based on the code location it's called from to improve calibration as you use it on the same sort of task multiple times.
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2021-05-20 03:37:20	Gurkenglas	For example, if it keeps being wrong, it should give a wider distribution.
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2021-05-20 03:38:46	mihael	With difflib, which one should I use to get a diff of what was added/removed between two files?
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2021-05-20 03:56:34	dvyd	I have a list of lists. all items in the sublists are strings. I want to concatenate all possible permutations. so [['a','b'],['1','2'],['x','y']] would result in 'a1x','a2x','a1y','a2y',etc. Can I do this with comprehensions somehow?
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2021-05-20 03:57:18	KirkMcDonald	dvyd: You could, but itertools.product() would make it simpler.
2021-05-20 03:57:32	dvyd	great. I'll try that.
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2021-05-20 03:58:11	KirkMcDonald	["".join(t) for t in itertools.product(*that_list)]
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2021-05-20 03:59:51	dvyd	"pip install itertools" is not working. has the library name changed?
2021-05-20 04:00:01	dvyd	more-itertools now?
2021-05-20 04:00:09	yamchah2	its not external
2021-05-20 04:00:45	dvyd	I see that now. never knew!
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2021-05-20 04:08:58	f8e4	hey, how to run python from temrinal 1*3 eg ?
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2021-05-20 04:11:22	dvyd	thanks KirkMcDonald. product works great!
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2021-05-20 04:19:36	koltrast	f8e4: python -c 'print(3*3)'
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2021-05-20 04:21:44	 *	f8e4 ty
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2021-05-20 04:35:00	TechSmurf	See you all on Libera, perhaps. *tips his hat*
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2021-05-20 04:37:13	cluelessperson_	Yes, I'm dual homed atm too.
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2021-05-20 04:47:06	rendar	a good lib to approximate big numbers? e.g. '300.000' -> '300k'
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2021-05-20 04:48:53	cluelessperson_	rendar, That's gonna be a human formatting thing.
2021-05-20 04:49:20	cluelessperson_	rendar, https://pypi.org/project/humanfriendly/  ?
2021-05-20 04:49:51	teut	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67616572/how-to-access-an-array-inside-a-list-in-python/67616857#67616857   There are many similar questions on SO regarding this copies and multiple references problem. Now people in every answer hand over this https://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html. But is there is usecase where one would  require that *
2021-05-20 04:49:51	teut	operation to create multiple refrences?
2021-05-20 04:49:53	rendar	but that's not about memory size, it's about money
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2021-05-20 04:50:57	teut	[[0]*7]*5
2021-05-20 04:51:05	bjs	teut: you mean,  why is it designed for [x]*5 to have 5 references?
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2021-05-20 04:51:09	teut	yes
2021-05-20 04:51:17	bjs	teut: Python, in general, doesn't implicitly copy things
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2021-05-20 04:51:37	bjs	teut: it'd be unusual if `[x]*5` is different to `t=[x];  t*5`  so it cannot be a syntactic thing like the comprehension
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2021-05-20 04:53:08	teut	why not?
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2021-05-20 04:53:30	bjs	teut: because you want to be able to write `t = [x]` then have `t*5` do the same thing as `[x]*5`. Otherwise it's confusing
2021-05-20 04:53:57	teut	it s confusing now too
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2021-05-20 04:54:16	bjs	teut: it's not that confusing `[x]*5` makes a list with 5 references to x
2021-05-20 04:54:30	bjs	which makes sense, and is easy and not confusing. It might just not be what you want for some value of x
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2021-05-20 04:54:48	teut	let me understand it in "c" instead of python
2021-05-20 04:54:57	teut	maybe I can get the feel
2021-05-20 04:55:46	teut	is that   pointer array notation?
2021-05-20 04:55:53	bjs	teut: is what?
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2021-05-20 04:56:35	iMessage	Hi, last time I updated Django to the newest version and got weird exception when using FileField and custom dynamic upload path - https://dpaste.org/iKua Could someone take a look what could be wrong ?
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2021-05-20 04:57:18	bronsen	what does the exception say?
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2021-05-20 04:58:12	teut	int *ptr[MAX];
2021-05-20 04:58:13	teut	It declares ptr as an array of MAX integer pointers. Thus, each element in ptr, holds a pointer to an int value. The following example uses three integers, which are stored in an array of pointers, as follows −
2021-05-20 04:58:32	bjs	teut: I'm not sure what you're trying to do? Why are you looking at C?
2021-05-20 04:58:50	teut	but python is just a syntactical sugar over c objects
2021-05-20 04:58:54	bjs	teut: no it is not
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2021-05-20 04:59:15	bjs	teut: In Python, * is the multiplication operator.  `[x] * 5` is multiplying the list [x] with 5
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2021-05-20 05:00:58	teut	ok , so it s hard to define what   "multiplying"   a number with an object should return
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2021-05-20 05:01:12	bjs	teut: yes, the object has to decide
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2021-05-20 05:01:35	iMessage	bronsen There is an exception inside the file - SuspiciousFileOperation
2021-05-20 05:02:03	teut	likewise its difficult to decide what does a user means when he multiplies a list
2021-05-20 05:02:19	teut	Hadamard product or   matrix multiplication
2021-05-20 05:02:28	teut	they*
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2021-05-20 05:02:34	supakeen	teut: It's not hard, Python has decided that multiplying a list does a certain thing.
2021-05-20 05:02:47	teut	that's the answer I wanted
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2021-05-20 05:02:49	teut	"decided"
2021-05-20 05:02:54	teut	thanks supakeen
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2021-05-20 05:03:09	supakeen	Just like some languages decide what happens if you add a string to a number, etc.
2021-05-20 05:03:12	kosh	a list is not a numpy array, if you want math behavior use numpy
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2021-05-20 05:03:28	teut	ya like multiple inheritance and MRO is defined a way in python
2021-05-20 05:03:32	bronsen	iMessage: you did good dpaste'ing the code snippet, now do as good with dpaste'ing the error message
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2021-05-20 05:04:05	teut	but people everywhere just handover https://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html, can't they use the word, "defined"
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2021-05-20 05:04:22	bjs	teut: I'm not sure what you mean,  I said it was designed this way specifically
2021-05-20 05:04:29	bjs	and that document explains what the definition is
2021-05-20 05:04:48	bjs	teut: Python is *not* sugar for C, maybe that's where you got confused?
2021-05-20 05:05:14	bjs	teut: every part of every language is "defined",  so if we just said that for every question we'd do nothing else but reply to everyone saying "it's defined"
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2021-05-20 05:05:38	teut	'=D  that's right also
2021-05-20 05:05:51	teut	thanks for the clarification bjs
2021-05-20 05:05:55	supakeen	Even C's undefined behaviour is defined.
2021-05-20 05:05:57	bjs	the more interesting question is often  "what other choices were there" and "why did they pick this particular one"
2021-05-20 05:06:06	bjs	supakeen: ;)
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2021-05-20 05:06:16	supakeen	As in, when it happens at least.
2021-05-20 05:06:31	teut	I was looking at a math book , and that just fitted the word "defined"
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2021-05-20 05:06:33	kosh	python indexes at 0 and uses half-open intervals for slicing, that is also just defined
2021-05-20 05:06:45	kosh	there are lots of ways it can be done with different tradeoffs
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2021-05-20 05:12:02	iMessage	bronsen Is it more clear now ? https://dpaste.org/mckc
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2021-05-20 05:18:46	bronsen	iMessage: I believe the error message comes from here https://github.com/django/django/blob/stable/3.2.x/django/core/files/utils.py#L19 and while it seems there are no ".." in the path, there might be a leading "/"
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2021-05-20 05:24:18	bronsen	what has me puzzled a bit though is that your code snippet looks good, and MEDIA_ROOT is described as "absolute file system path"
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2021-05-20 05:28:07	bronsen	iMessage: it seems that "upload_to" should not prepend MEDIA_ROOT, since that is done by the default storage system: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.2/ref/models/fields/#django.db.models.FileField.upload_to
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2021-05-20 05:29:09	iMessage	bronsen Oh, let me try this. Thanks a lot for giving a link as reference.
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2021-05-20 05:30:11	bronsen	iMessage: I think upload_to should return the path relative to MEDIA_ROOT
2021-05-20 05:30:40	Sunny93	need some help with my python Class
2021-05-20 05:31:00	Sunny93	https://bpa.st/BA3Q
2021-05-20 05:31:22	Sunny93	I think I design something wrong in class inheritance
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2021-05-20 05:32:01	Sunny93	the `__dump_to_impala` of the subclass doesn't get called
2021-05-20 05:32:37	Sunny93	And the IDE is showing a "#Unresolved attribute reference '__dump_to_impala' for class 'Base'   " hints
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2021-05-20 05:34:19	bjs	Sunny93: don't use __names
2021-05-20 05:34:22	bjs	Sunny93: use _names
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2021-05-20 05:34:53	Sunny93	originally I was using _names, then I was told _ stands for protected and __names are private
2021-05-20 05:34:55	bjs	if you want to say to a programmer that it's "private", use _names
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2021-05-20 05:35:04	bjs	Sunny93: no that's totally wrong, there are no protected or private names in Python
2021-05-20 05:35:21	bjs	Sunny93: _names are what people write when they want to say something is "private", it's a convention but a very common one
2021-05-20 05:35:38	bjs	__names are *incredibly uncommon* and in my >10 years of using Python I have *never* seen someone use it correctly.
2021-05-20 05:35:38	bjs	Not once.
2021-05-20 05:35:41	bjs	Ever.
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2021-05-20 05:37:10	Sunny93	https://stackoverflow.com/a/1301409/5983841
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2021-05-20 05:37:22	Sunny93	But __names can prevent user calling the method
2021-05-20 05:37:26	Sunny93	while _name can not
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2021-05-20 05:38:36	Sunny93	Could you help me with the function call? The question I mentioned in the first place.
2021-05-20 05:38:38	bjs	Sunny93: __names does not prevent the user calling the method, it just renames the method
2021-05-20 05:38:44	bjs	Sunny93: the answer is easy, use _names instead.
2021-05-20 05:38:44	Sunny93	ok
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2021-05-20 05:39:50	bjs	Sunny93: _names are a convention to say "this is private". __names simply do some (very dumb) renaming to try make shadowing less likely.  But people can still call them. and this renaming is why your `super().__dump_to_impala(dest)` call is failing.
2021-05-20 05:40:10	sanketdg	I am creating a web API using Tornado that looks something like this https://bpa.st/E7AQ As you can see a lot of code is just duplicated, what is a good direction to start refactoring this, espescially the try/catch blocks?
2021-05-20 05:40:49	Sunny93	bjs wow, I see. let me try
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2021-05-20 05:45:30	Sunny93	holy crap. it's working
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2021-05-20 05:45:49	Sunny93	you are so helpful and thank you. I wish I could buy you a coffee
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2021-05-20 05:48:43	Sunny93	Is there a convenient way to set something like #ifdef DEBUG in C?
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2021-05-20 05:49:20	Sunny93	I want a simple switch so I can log some debug info when developing but close in production
2021-05-20 05:50:08	bjs	Sunny93: there are proper logging frameworks that can selectively enable/disable
2021-05-20 05:50:51	bjs	but there is `if __debug__:`,  but nobody runs with __debug__ = False in practice
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2021-05-20 05:51:41	Sunny93	frameworks. Ok.. I choose to comment in and out some debug `print` for now then.
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2021-05-20 05:53:49	bjs	Sunny93: well there is __debug__ like I said,  although it's uncommon because people prefer to use real logging frameworks
2021-05-20 05:54:12	Sunny93	Any easy set up frameworks recommended?
2021-05-20 05:54:39	Sunny93	which I can pip install xxx and set up in 5 mins ... I think?
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2021-05-20 05:56:37	bjs	Sunny93: `import logging`
2021-05-20 05:56:41	bjs	you already have it.
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2021-05-20 05:57:03	bjs	there are some third-party ones, like eliot, that people seem to like.  But `logging` is the bog-standard one, like any you'd find anywhere else.
2021-05-20 05:57:21	Sunny93	how do I selectively enable/disable with logging?
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2021-05-20 05:57:41	Sunny93	I think of 1 way. I switch set log_level
2021-05-20 05:57:53	Sunny93	I can switch log_level
2021-05-20 05:57:56	bjs	Sunny93: i think it's best if you just read the docs for logging first,  it will have examples and stuff
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2021-05-20 05:58:06	Sunny93	ok thanks
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2021-05-20 05:58:42	bjs	Sunny93: but yes it uses levels (which is the standard way), the docs have tutorial and cookbook and a reference for all the bits
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2021-05-20 05:59:13	bjs	Sunny93: https://docs.python.org/3/library/logging.html  check the "Important" box at the top, for more links.
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2021-05-20 06:06:59	Sunny93	Ok I see
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2021-05-20 06:10:31	IHasFinger	hi guys. I am using a VS Code and using a third party library. This third party library has some method it in and some functions which I am following along on their documentation. However how can I see the actual method code? VS code does not let me click into it like usual
2021-05-20 06:10:55	IHasFinger	my question is does vs code have a breakpoint so you can step in and out?
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2021-05-20 06:16:11	amo	IHasFinger, you can run vscode in debug mode, which should allow that, but it sounds like an embedded library of sorts you are interested in, best bet for those is github
2021-05-20 06:16:20	amo	reading the actual code
2021-05-20 06:17:10	grawity	could it be that the actual method code is compiled from C
2021-05-20 06:17:24	IHasFinger	grawity, it is
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2021-05-20 06:18:05	IHasFinger	this is the library I am using https://github.com/mrjbq7/ta-lib it has methods like MACD and RSI and I wanted to checkout the actual code but its not clear
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2021-05-20 06:20:35	bjs	IHasFinger: like this line: `rsi = talib.RSI(c)` ?
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2021-05-20 06:21:01	bjs	IHasFinger: things available in talib.*  will have to come from talib/__init__.py, so start there. Either it's defined there, or imported there.
2021-05-20 06:22:09	lericson	[f(z) for y in x for z in y] correct?
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2021-05-20 06:22:42	mdk	looks good to me
2021-05-20 06:22:46	speq	Any plans to move to libera?
2021-05-20 06:22:50	bjs	lericson: I mean, it's valid Python.  Only you can tell if it's "correct"
2021-05-20 06:23:01	mdk	speq: some have moved
2021-05-20 06:23:02	bjs	speq: "Moving? It's being spoken about but there's no answer."
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2021-05-20 06:23:10	speq	Thanks
2021-05-20 06:23:35	supakeen	Seeing how the dust settles and where the users end up is the current status-ish.
2021-05-20 06:23:45	FLHerne	speq: There's already a libera version with a couple of hundred people
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2021-05-20 06:24:25	lericson	bjs: the opposite would be nonsensical
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2021-05-20 06:25:07	lericson	i'm asking, does the inner loop come after the outer in the comprehension syntax
2021-05-20 06:25:10	bjs	lericson: well, [f(z) for z in y for y in x] is also valid but does something different (an a bit uselesss I guess)
2021-05-20 06:25:11	lericson	i never remember this for some reason
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2021-05-20 06:25:16	bjs	lericson: it's the same order as normal loops
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2021-05-20 06:25:30	speq	supakeen: thanks
2021-05-20 06:25:31	bjs	lericson: `for a in b: for c in d: append(e)` is `[e for a in b for c in d]`
2021-05-20 06:25:42	lericson	my instinct is to go [[f(z) for z in y] for y in x] but remove the brackets for some reason
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2021-05-20 06:34:40	--	Mode #python [+o supakeen] by ChanServ
2021-05-20 06:34:42	--	supakeen has changed topic for #python from "Anything about Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Moving? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops | #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #pytho" to "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops │ #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-20 06:34:46	--	Mode #python [-o supakeen] by ChanServ
2021-05-20 06:34:53	supakeen	After my failings of yesterday I made it a bit more clear now :)
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2021-05-20 06:36:44	bjs	supakeen: it's ok nobody reads the topic anyway
2021-05-20 06:37:03	spithash	word
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2021-05-20 06:38:11	P1ckleRick	haha
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2021-05-20 06:39:40	contagious_meow	Anyone tried to install pillow on windows? What way would you recommend without having to use a conda distribution
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2021-05-20 06:41:12	grawity	I just ran `pip install pillow` and that seemed to do the job?
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2021-05-20 06:42:21	contagious_meow	on my system that brings up a missing zlib dependency during build and then I get the problem that zlib is not distributed by pypi
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2021-05-20 06:42:33	lericson	install zlib-dev
2021-05-20 06:42:50	contagious_meow	using pip?
2021-05-20 06:43:02	lericson	using apt or whatever
2021-05-20 06:43:30	contagious_meow	windows platform though
2021-05-20 06:43:44	grawity	in my case it seems to have just unpacked a pre-built .whl package
2021-05-20 06:44:01	grawity	I don't remember whether I've done anything specific to make that work
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2021-05-20 06:45:36	grawity	(I'm using py3.9 via Windows Store, for what it's worth)
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2021-05-20 06:45:59	contagious_meow	im using version 3.10
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2021-05-20 06:48:32	contagious_meow	the only headway i found was to use minsys somehow,
2021-05-20 06:48:40	IHasFinger	i ran my script in debug in vs code after that i disable all breakpoints. However when using terminal to run my code. It is struck
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2021-05-20 06:50:34	IHasFinger	anyone experience this before?
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2021-05-20 07:06:24	IHasFinger	is they something in python which can tell me the list of callback /method for an object?
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2021-05-20 07:07:51	IHasFinger	this library i am using, the docs says it should have a method called "signal". however when i try to access it i get
2021-05-20 07:07:52	IHasFinger	AttributeError: 'Lines_LineSeries_LineIterator_DataAccessor_Indicat' object has no attribute 'signal'
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2021-05-20 07:12:18	bjs	IHasFinger: well you can go help(the_object) to get information about it
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2021-05-20 07:12:31	bjs	IHasFinger: but I'm not sure what you expect to find, Python has already told you "signal" won't be in that list. :)
2021-05-20 07:12:53	bjs	IHasFinger: maybe the docs are wrong,  or maybe you have a different type of object than the docs were talking about
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2021-05-20 07:14:07	IHasFinger	bjs, found it :) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2675028/list-attributes-of-an-object
2021-05-20 07:14:18	IHasFinger	looks like the documentation not been updated in a while
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2021-05-20 07:14:56	bjs	IHasFinger: help() is a really useful function when you get stuck
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2021-05-20 07:22:52	Zy64Jw	f :: Iterable[a] -> Iterable[a] -> Iterable[a] ??
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2021-05-20 07:24:19	bjs	Zy64Jw: is that supposed to be a question?
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2021-05-20 07:24:24	bjs	if so, I'm not sure what you're trying to ask
2021-05-20 07:24:38	Zy64Jw	is there a function that combines two iterables into one?
2021-05-20 07:24:56	Zy64Jw	for lists we have (+)
2021-05-20 07:25:05	mdk	Zy64Jw: itertools.chain ?
2021-05-20 07:25:27	Zy64Jw	chain(a, b)?
2021-05-20 07:25:38	Zy64Jw	mdk: thanks!
2021-05-20 07:25:43	mdk	Zy64Jw: try it, see if it fit your needs
2021-05-20 07:25:55	IHasFinger	bjs, thanks. I was not aware python had a help method :)
2021-05-20 07:26:15	bjs	IHasFinger: even I forget sometimes
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2021-05-20 07:26:29	bjs	IHasFinger: it is limited, and "real" docs is usually better
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2021-05-20 07:26:38	bjs	but if you have an object and just want to know "what is this thing" help can be useful
2021-05-20 07:26:43	Zy64Jw	also is there a partition function based on predicate? i.e. f :: (a -> Bool) -> Iterable[a] -> (Iterable[a], Iterable[a])
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2021-05-20 07:27:24	Zy64Jw	ignore my last message
2021-05-20 07:27:26	bjs	Zy64Jw: https://pypi.org/project/more-itertools/ has a lot more of these kind of functions
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2021-05-20 07:27:42	bjs	Zy64Jw: that one is called partition.
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2021-05-20 07:29:15	Zy64Jw	bjs: thanks!
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2021-05-20 07:34:39	Zy64Jw	I see that more-itertools is already installed in my venv, how can i use pip to find the package that uses it for which more-itertools was installed
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2021-05-20 07:35:19	kanupatar	Hi everyone. I have a scenario. I have the numerical input data(10 columns). It is two class data. There are 800,000 normal class and 100,000 attack class. Which machine learning algorithm I should use to build a detection engine?
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2021-05-20 07:35:40	bjs	Zy64Jw: `venv/bin/pip show more-itertools`  might contain useful information
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2021-05-20 07:36:35	Zy64Jw	cool it says required by moto which i am using to mock boto
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2021-05-20 07:42:02	habnabit_	kanupatar, this is #python
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2021-05-20 07:42:15	Xatenev	hello
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2021-05-20 07:42:23	kanupatar	habnabit_ ok
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2021-05-20 07:43:06	Xatenev	is it possible to somehow get access to the __import__/import/exec builtin functions in an eval code if the environment is set like e = {'__builtins__': {}}
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2021-05-20 07:43:19	Xatenev	and passed into eval(cmd, e, e)
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2021-05-20 07:43:29	Xatenev	(this is related to a CTF)
2021-05-20 07:43:38	supakeen	Yes.
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2021-05-20 07:43:44	supakeen	But I assume you don't want the direct answer :)
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2021-05-20 07:44:00	Xatenev	thanks, yeah its good to know that the direction is probably correct then
2021-05-20 07:44:15	Xatenev	im trying to find a way to regenerate the builtins somehow
2021-05-20 07:44:21	supakeen	Well.
2021-05-20 07:44:49	supakeen	Let me put it this way, everything in Python inherits from the same object, this object has a __subclasses__ attribute.
2021-05-20 07:44:52	supakeen	Does that help you along?
2021-05-20 07:44:57	supakeen	See what's in there :)
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2021-05-20 07:48:36	Xatenev	supakeen: thank you
2021-05-20 07:48:38	Xatenev	it worked
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2021-05-20 07:49:24	supakeen	Good!
2021-05-20 07:49:31	Xatenev	supakeen: this is how i did it [ x.__init__.__globals__ for x in ''.__class__.__base__.__subclasses__() if x.__name__ == '_wrap_close' ][0]['system']('cat flag')
2021-05-20 07:49:47	supakeen	Close, and now I know it's not a challenge I built.
2021-05-20 07:50:00	Xatenev	haha, why?
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2021-05-20 07:50:13	Xatenev	are you actively building CTF challenges?
2021-05-20 07:50:13	supakeen	Because I rarely do `cat flag` but make the flags something you have to use.
2021-05-20 07:50:23	supakeen	Like, find the password to an administrator panel or such.
2021-05-20 07:50:29	supakeen	Has to fit in a storyline a bit.
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2021-05-20 07:50:36	supakeen	Yea, my day job is building CTF challenges.
2021-05-20 07:50:46	Xatenev	ohh thats neat
2021-05-20 07:51:13	Xatenev	I wanna get more into RE/CTf stuff
2021-05-20 07:51:21	supakeen	It's a lot of fun.
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2021-05-20 07:51:34	Xatenev	only the memory hacking and RE stuff though, i find networking stuff boring
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2021-05-20 07:51:56	supakeen	Though I'm a bit biased since there's a lot of not so good challenges out there that only revolve around one trick (the one you just had you see a lot).
2021-05-20 07:52:13	supakeen	I prefer a bit more story to them and actually having to use 'flags' you steal.
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2021-05-20 07:52:21	Xatenev	yeah thats cool
2021-05-20 07:52:34	supakeen	I guess a bit more real-world.
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2021-05-20 07:52:39	Xatenev	supakeen: are you only focussed on python CTF's or other languages too?
2021-05-20 07:52:41	supakeen	But put that one in your notes, it's super common.
2021-05-20 07:52:43	supakeen	All languages.
2021-05-20 07:52:53	supakeen	But personally I mostly write Python and C.
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2021-05-20 07:53:29	Xatenev	I see, I usually don't do any python only C and JVM-based languages but python and perl are quite involved in exploiting stuff
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2021-05-20 07:58:36	bjs	Xatenev: once you're in you can get to ctypes then you can do anything C can do
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2021-05-20 07:59:16	bjs	which uh, is more a proof of terribleness than a practical approach to actually doing it. :)
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2021-05-20 08:51:08	CrtxReavr	Is ozone with PSF, /names
2021-05-20 08:51:14	CrtxReavr	whoops
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2021-05-20 09:02:15	xioton	Hey. How do i run python using the Atom IDE?
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2021-05-20 09:09:59	azidhaka	Hi everyone, does anyone have experience connecting to OpenAPI API service from python, i can't understand its concepts and especially how to use AppKey and AppSecret. A link to simple explanation/documentation is much appreciated
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2021-05-20 09:14:22	nedbat	anyone with windows willing to try running the django-coverage-plugin test suite for me? it fails mysteriously on GitHub Actions, and I'm looking for data points.
2021-05-20 09:15:40	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: Learning the basic concepts of an API will help you understand the basic concepts. AppKey and AppSecret are to do with authentication methods (there are other methods available, basic, json web tokens etc).
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2021-05-20 09:16:46	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: yes, i've worked with REST APIs and stuff, but this is different. A spec file is needed to load the API structure and looks very complicated
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2021-05-20 09:21:46	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: The OAS is just a simple representation of the API and endpoints. Are you trying to use this in conjuction with a webserver (say Flask?)
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2021-05-20 09:24:08	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: i was given access to a API portal of a kind, named Artemis and inside i can see all the details of the API calls. I couldn't find how to export the OAS spec file from it for example
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2021-05-20 09:25:42	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: What is your end goal? OpenAPI provides tools for easily creating spec files (OpenAPI Generator)
2021-05-20 09:25:59	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: there is an Export function on the API list page, and it gives me an yaml file, but it looks like its incomplete, or, more likely i don't understand it: openapi3.errors.SpecError: Missing required fields: openapi, info, paths
2021-05-20 09:26:24	vimart	I don't know how you guys but I need a coffee
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2021-05-20 09:26:39	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: the end goal is to write a simple client for that API and automate some stuff
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2021-05-20 09:26:45	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: Can you provide an exert of the yaml file?
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2021-05-20 09:28:00	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: thats all of it: http://p.ip.fi/uZle
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2021-05-20 09:29:39	azidhaka	it is possible it's a different version of OpenAPI and i am trying to work with version 3 with it
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2021-05-20 09:33:47	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: That looks like swagger 3.3.1, which is compatible with OpenAPI 3
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2021-05-20 09:35:39	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: am i doing this correctly, exporting the yaml from Artemis, which i guess is some kind of Swagger successor
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2021-05-20 09:40:29	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: I'm looking but it looks like you might need to do this manually.....
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2021-05-20 09:41:28	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: the authentication method looks complicated, with headers like X-Ca-Key, X-Ca-Signature, X-Ca-Signature-Headers,which are barely explained
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2021-05-20 09:43:14	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: That's when your signing/auth with certificates
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2021-05-20 09:43:58	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: this looks very similar: https://www.alibabacloud.com/help/doc-detail/29475.htm
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2021-05-20 09:45:41	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: every information is in chinese btw :(
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2021-05-20 10:01:43	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: Is this for Alibaba API or something different?
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2021-05-20 10:03:30	Zweimer	Hey. I am learning python right now and am struggling with the hist function of matplotlib. https://bpa.st/CYQA The histogram ist only one bar from 0-1 instead of two bars representing the amount of trues and falses. What is my mistake?
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2021-05-20 10:04:17	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: another chinese product, Hikcentral. Found some python examples here: https://www.programmersought.com/article/95654239589/
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2021-05-20 10:04:36	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: weird auth method
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2021-05-20 10:07:31	SnoopJ	Zweimer, have a look at the documentation for hist(), `bins` acts a little weird when you pass a list, it must define at *least* the left edge of the first bin (0, here) and the right edge of the last one (1). So in this case you end up with one bin spanning [0, 1]. I'd pass `bins=2` instead probably and let matplotlib work out the details.
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2021-05-20 10:10:09	Zweimer	SnoopJ, I saw that that bins can also just be an integer, but bins = 2 results in an error for me.
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2021-05-20 10:10:40	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: Indeed, although some details online
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2021-05-20 10:11:21	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: thanks for the help
2021-05-20 10:11:37	P1ckleRick	x-ca-key: the AppKey, which is required. / x-ca-signature-method: the signature method, which is optional. Valid values: HmacSHA256 and HmacSHA1. Default value: HmacSHA256. / X-Ca-Signature-Headers: The keys of all signature headers. Separate multiple keys with commas (,). This parameter is optional. / X-Ca-Signature: the signature, which is required.
2021-05-20 10:11:46	SnoopJ	Zweimer, what sort of error?
2021-05-20 10:11:50	SnoopJ	https://bpaste.net/+python+pytb
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2021-05-20 10:13:34	Zweimer	SnoopJ, https://bpa.st/6ENA
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2021-05-20 10:14:06	SnoopJ	ah, it's upset about the boolean dtype
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2021-05-20 10:14:39	Zweimer	hmm, I guess it is easier working with 0 and 1 then?
2021-05-20 10:15:12	SnoopJ	yea, I would probably just do that
2021-05-20 10:15:45	SnoopJ	`manufactoring.astype(int)` should do it
2021-05-20 10:16:19	Zweimer	right. Thanks.
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2021-05-20 10:18:47	Numero-6	How can i send a data in a html page, and show by server http python3 ?
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2021-05-20 10:20:19	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: Not much help :) It looks like the signature is constructed from 7 parts (the last link you provided shows how these are constructed - If that matches).
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2021-05-20 10:21:12	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: yep, managed to make some requests already using the last link
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2021-05-20 10:21:47	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: :)
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2021-05-20 10:22:55	azidhaka	P1ckleRick: i guess this auth stuff is designed to provide some security when communication in plain text
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2021-05-20 10:24:34	w0x12ef	what is the accurate meaning of pentesting
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2021-05-20 10:25:02	P1ckleRick	azidhaka: That's what it looks like, the server side will more than likely use these headers to validate the request. Adding complexity etc, if the timestamp matches, the request matches the signature etc.
2021-05-20 10:25:10	P1ckleRick	w0x12ef: ask my wife :P
2021-05-20 10:25:58	amo	P1ckleRick, why, is she a hacker? :p
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2021-05-20 10:26:04	amo	don't answer that.
2021-05-20 10:26:26	amo	w0x12ef, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetration_test
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2021-05-20 10:27:26	w0x12ef	amo, is pentest sniff the network proto?
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2021-05-20 10:28:10	amo	w0x12ef, did you read the page?
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2021-05-20 10:32:13	P1ckleRick	w0x12ef: sensible answer, Penetration Testing - In a nutshell it's testing your code/application for penetration (attacks that provide undesired access). This can be applied to all walks of life, you could in theory pentest your home!
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2021-05-20 10:50:26	IoannisJVM	Hi i have a machine-learning model with 3 modules,i need to create an API with one of them,but i can't import some functions from one of them
2021-05-20 10:50:31	IoannisJVM	if i do tree
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2021-05-20 10:50:47	IoannisJVM	i can see only my py files
2021-05-20 10:50:54	IoannisJVM	the models are in jupyter
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2021-05-20 11:19:23	tete_	hi, i have a small python project which i should do for a university project. we should generate a model, train it and then classify some images. so i used some APIs to get about 1000 pictures of birds and about 500 pictures about tigers. i created a model and trained it but somehow it does not what i would expect - the predictions are nearly all the time wrong. https://paste.debian.net/1198245/ anyone an idea what is wrong? i am wondering if its the
2021-05-20 11:19:23	tete_	dataset i use or if its the model
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2021-05-20 11:19:34	tete_	also wondering how i could debug that what goes wrong now
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2021-05-20 11:26:22	SnoopJ	tete_, it could be both, or neither. How did you decide to use 5 training epochs?
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2021-05-20 11:26:41	tete_	SnoopJ, i was guessing ;)
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2021-05-20 11:27:37	tete_	it showed me the accuracy of train and validation data and the more epoch the more accuracy, but it was quiet too high, like 95+ %
2021-05-20 11:27:49	tete_	so we went for 5, where it was about 80%
2021-05-20 11:28:16	SnoopJ	okay, so you were at least looking at the losses on train/val when choosing it, that's good.
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2021-05-20 11:29:06	tete_	yes but not sure if my (our) decision was good - we are a small group of 3 and only i have some programming experience, but never had to deal with machine learning
2021-05-20 11:29:16	SnoopJ	tete_, how close to your training/val data are your test data? Maybe the infer-time data just doesn't look much like the dataset? This network doesn't have a ton of structure, it won't be able to learn very sophisticated features (not that there's enough data to do that anyway)
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2021-05-20 11:32:36	tete_	SnoopJ, https://imgur.com/a/T3qgct5 thats how it looks now
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2021-05-20 11:35:12	SnoopJ	hmm, well if it's on a plateau there's certainly no reason to train more
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2021-05-20 11:35:43	teut	how is that validation loss so consistent?
2021-05-20 11:36:13	teut	are you testing on the same data sample?
2021-05-20 11:36:58	tete_	https://imgur.com/a/dJOGcbE those are the birds, and those are the tigers: https://imgur.com/iBunqza
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2021-05-20 11:37:56	teut	are you using a cnn?
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2021-05-20 11:39:04	tete_	teut, not sure what you mean, i am new to that. i created that code: https://paste.debian.net/1198245/ - i could imagine that it has problems with the training data and validation data when i take them from the same directory
2021-05-20 11:39:12	tete_	line 20 and 12, maybe thats the problem?
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2021-05-20 11:39:36	teut	yes you are using one
2021-05-20 11:39:40	SnoopJ	tete_, can you answer my question about the inference-time data? How similar are the images that are "nearly all the time wrong" to the training dataset?
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2021-05-20 11:40:46	tete_	SnoopJ, i dont know what inference-time data is. https://www.wwf.at/files/images/84/461f5296ad353_d.jpg - i have some that look pretty much the same
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2021-05-20 11:43:46	teut	My recommendation would be to use a base model
2021-05-20 11:43:47	SnoopJ	tete_, okay, let's back up a step. To what images are you referring when you say "nearly all the time wrong." ~60% on the validation set is definitely not consistent with this. It's not good performance, either, but it's not "nearly all the time wrong."
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2021-05-20 11:44:13	teut	ok SnoopJ 's point  stands above now
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2021-05-20 11:45:19	tete_	SnoopJ, i have only 1 picture i use for validation for myself to see if it works or not. thats the one from the link https://www.wwf.at/files/images/84/461f5296ad353_d.jpg - or is it wrong to rely only on this one image ?
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2021-05-20 11:45:50	tete_	i just let it run and... This image most likely belongs to bird with a 98.41 percent confidence. - thats a badass bird ;D
2021-05-20 11:45:58	teut	lol 1 pic for validation
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2021-05-20 11:46:28	SnoopJ	tete_, sorry, I'm not really understanding...
2021-05-20 11:46:58	SnoopJ	You're looking at only one image to decide if the network is "nearly all the time wrong?"
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2021-05-20 11:47:21	teut	I m a noob coder , but I think you should try some examples given on tensorflow's website
2021-05-20 11:47:41	teut	so you may/may not listen to  me
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2021-05-20 11:47:59	tete_	teut, many parts are from the tensorflow website
2021-05-20 11:48:01	SnoopJ	teut, this architecture looks close enough to examples that you might find in a tutorial
2021-05-20 11:48:11	SnoopJ	There's only so many ways to make a tiny convnet :)
2021-05-20 11:48:21	tete_	i thought it would recognize the tiger as tiger more likely
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2021-05-20 11:48:33	teut	I think they should use transfer learning
2021-05-20 11:48:41	teut	with that results are pretty good
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2021-05-20 11:49:34	tete_	the goal is to have about 10 or 20 classes of images but thats just a small part of the whole task - we should later also versioning the model etc. - but i thought to have a fast walking skeleton, i create only 2 classes
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2021-05-20 11:49:55	tete_	and now i stopped with the next steps because i was too afraid because the model performed bad - but i'll try now some more pictures of tigers and birds and see what happens
2021-05-20 11:50:14	SnoopJ	tete_, can you answer my question please?
2021-05-20 11:50:45	teut	model = tf.keras.Sequential(    this is the  heart of the code and it literally sucks
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2021-05-20 11:51:40	teut	the birds are of so many categories , it's too much tough to feed all features within these few matrices
2021-05-20 11:51:51	tete_	SnoopJ, yes, i watched only 1 image to see how well it recognizes that as tiger
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2021-05-20 11:52:25	tete_	https://github.com/damnms/adsprojekt just uploaded everything if someone wants to take a closer look. teut thats what i thought too, there is too much information/dimensions of the images maybe
2021-05-20 11:52:26	teut	even if you have 0 validation data , there is no problem in manual tuning
2021-05-20 11:52:34	teut	of hyperparameters
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2021-05-20 11:53:28	SnoopJ	tete_, okay. That's a slightly strange way to evaluate a network's performance (compared to looking at performance over many images, the "test" part of a train/val/test split). Is this tiger image from your dataset, or is it separate?
2021-05-20 11:53:28	tete_	the images are here: https://github.com/damnms/adsprojekt/tree/master/pixabay - for the poc we just used that directory
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2021-05-20 11:53:47	teut	did you try with black and white images?
2021-05-20 11:53:47	tete_	SnoopJ, its separate - i googled for "tiger" and took one of the first hits
2021-05-20 11:53:53	tete_	teut, no
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2021-05-20 11:54:21	tete_	we thought we go with data augmentation later and do some black/white images of our existing images
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2021-05-20 11:54:35	teut	why not, afaik , what's happenening is in the first step all your R, G, B  matrices get element wise summation
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2021-05-20 11:55:08	teut	so you might have not much features
2021-05-20 11:55:36	SnoopJ	tete_, okay, my best guess is that this datum "doesn't look like" your dataset. Strongest suspect there would be the color balance: this image has very imbalanced color, and maybe your net is paying more attention to its color than its structure.
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2021-05-20 11:55:53	teut	I agree with SnoopJ
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2021-05-20 11:56:06	teut	you should first try with black white images
2021-05-20 11:56:10	tete_	ok
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2021-05-20 11:56:28	teut	or infact start with reading on transfer learning
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2021-05-20 11:56:43	teut	choose the InceptionV3 Resnet as base model
2021-05-20 11:56:47	tete_	transfer learning is using an already existing model right?
2021-05-20 11:56:49	tete_	and then tune that
2021-05-20 11:56:50	SnoopJ	tete_, however, I just looked at your tiger data and some of them have pretty weird artifacts, like this one: https://github.com/damnms/adsprojekt/blob/master/pixabay/tiger/442resized_gee4ae8409afecafbcc931d4620e3250000e55d48f1d56f2621ff7529be83603cc749a8814a5b65500978872d8e37f018_640.jpg
2021-05-20 11:57:02	teut	yes thats right so you know about it
2021-05-20 11:57:10	SnoopJ	And at least one of them doesn't even have a tiger in it: https://github.com/damnms/adsprojekt/blob/master/pixabay/tiger/330resized_gc3c0bf4fb6426b509429683ea4572b0f7efeb0d9bb92061a63de536c2db660da0027389d477a73d920ad71da6a64d257_640.jpg
2021-05-20 11:57:20	teut	tensorflow is already loaded with many pretrained models
2021-05-20 11:57:27	tete_	teut, in theory, yes, thats why we had this course ;)
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2021-05-20 11:57:38	SnoopJ	I don't agree about starting with black/white or transfer learning, FWIW.
2021-05-20 11:57:57	SnoopJ	the latter is unnecessarily complex for this task, the former is just throwing away data
2021-05-20 11:58:07	tete_	so maybe i should clean the data first ?
2021-05-20 11:58:18	tete_	tbh i did not check it, i thought that api will give me "ok" results ...
2021-05-20 11:58:28	teut	yes in theory it does, since the pretrained models, the one on CoCo   dataset covers a lot of features of the objects which we see around us
2021-05-20 11:58:48	teut	so it's better than random initialization
2021-05-20 11:59:00	SnoopJ	tete_, if it were me, I would probably load that test image into an image editor and adjust the color balance to something less "artistic" (most editors have a feature that can do this pretty well automatically), and see what your network thinks of that modified datum.
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2021-05-20 11:59:20	teut	tensorflow has those corrections
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2021-05-20 11:59:38	teut	and try the  Hue Sat Value  color setting
2021-05-20 11:59:40	SnoopJ	yes, it can be done as a preprocessing step if need be, but there's no point talking about architectural changes before you understand what you want to change
2021-05-20 11:59:54	teut	people say that color model is easier to train
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2021-05-20 12:00:08	SnoopJ	It's hard enough when you know *exactly* what changes you want to make; if you go into it without understanding a failure, you're just guessing and the odds of a correct guess are dreadful.
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2021-05-20 12:00:41	SnoopJ	But yes, color is a *really* tricky thing to get right and is my top suspect here since most of the training data have more balanced colors
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2021-05-20 12:01:03	ramsub07	Hello I'm trying to install bpy but I face this error: https://dpaste.com/96BLMPBHC can someone please help?
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2021-05-20 12:01:15	ramsub07	the bpy i refer to : https://pypi.org/project/bpy/
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2021-05-20 12:01:35	SnoopJ	i.e. this image is heavy on red, so maybe the net has learned that red-heavy images are birds more often than they are tigers, or a similar rule
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2021-05-20 12:02:24	teut	black and white images should do good
2021-05-20 12:02:33	 *	SnoopJ doesn't agree
2021-05-20 12:02:46	teut	why not?
2021-05-20 12:02:58	teut	I mean for a start
2021-05-20 12:03:00	SnoopJ	teut, for starters, there is more than one way to turn that training data into "black and white" and the differences between the ways can have similar effects.
2021-05-20 12:03:13	SnoopJ	But more importantly: discarding color information is discarding information.
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2021-05-20 12:03:35	teut	i know but birds and tigers have differnt shapes
2021-05-20 12:03:36	SnoopJ	If you're going to decide what features are/are not important, you might as well not use a convnet, the whole point of them is that *they* decide the features.
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2021-05-20 12:03:56	SnoopJ	teut, there are other ways to solve the problem that don't throw useful data out (like normalization during preprocessing, color augmentation, and so on)
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2021-05-20 12:04:26	teut	ok, but don't you think for a start ignoring colours would be helpful?
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2021-05-20 12:04:39	SnoopJ	for the third time, no
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2021-05-20 12:04:42	Numero-6	i have make an web server python, that open an html page with a case for put text. How can i take the text and show in server ?
2021-05-20 12:04:44	teut	they can just feed the output to another model then
2021-05-20 12:05:08	teut	the first model takes decisions based on shape
2021-05-20 12:05:20	teut	the second one on the colors
2021-05-20 12:05:31	teut	the output is the combined ine
2021-05-20 12:05:34	teut	one*
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2021-05-20 12:06:02	SnoopJ	again, if you're going to go to all that trouble, why not just make a non-convnet inference engine
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2021-05-20 12:06:31	SnoopJ	once you get in there and start making this kind of decision about features without really strong reasons for doing so, you're gambling
2021-05-20 12:06:41	tete_	hm
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2021-05-20 12:07:24	teut	deep learning is all about that
2021-05-20 12:07:38	teut	people say approximate everything by a gaussian
2021-05-20 12:07:43	teut	wothout any reason
2021-05-20 12:07:46	tete_	the exercise from the prof is: using a ml framework/library (tensorflow/keras, sklearn etc.) - we should create any kind of model. maybe i should step many steps back and dont do such kind of classification but something much more simpler
2021-05-20 12:07:49	SnoopJ	it's about literally the opposite of what you are suggesting, which is feature engineering by hand
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2021-05-20 12:08:15	teut	feature engineering is much better
2021-05-20 12:08:21	SnoopJ	and if you're going to get that involved in feature selection, just build a non-convnet model, probably a linear regression would do fine here
2021-05-20 12:09:01	teut	like  if you know your tiger is independent of green color and only the background contains ggreen, one can remove that green by opencv
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2021-05-20 12:09:34	tete_	oh just noticed, if we use cnn, rnn, transfer learning or any other more advanced deep learning technique, its extra points :)
2021-05-20 12:09:52	teut	no its not like that
2021-05-20 12:09:59	teut	extra points?
2021-05-20 12:10:26	SnoopJ	tete_, like I said, I'd try equalizing the datum and see what your network thinks of it. Here's the result of "auto > equalize" in GIMP: https://i.imgur.com/bnR3gZO.png
2021-05-20 12:10:27	tete_	yes, the exercise is the base for the exam - we are ask about that and have to answer questions
2021-05-20 12:10:52	teut	gotta go, thanks for the discussion
2021-05-20 12:11:55	SnoopJ	A more sophisticated way to pursue my hunch here would be to look at the color histograms of your training data and compare to the color histograms of that image.
2021-05-20 12:12:03	SnoopJ	but "more sophisticated" means "do it later, if ever"
2021-05-20 12:12:14	tete_	teut, cu and thanks for the information/discussion
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2021-05-20 12:13:37	tete_	i guess with datum you mean the image?
2021-05-20 12:15:26	SnoopJ	yes
2021-05-20 12:15:42	SnoopJ	Try inferring on the modified image I just linked, see what it thinks it is
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2021-05-20 12:16:55	tete_	hmm i just noticed yours is a png, most if mine are jpg, wondering if that could also lead to some problems when mixing extensions
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2021-05-20 12:17:47	SnoopJ	It can, especially because JPEG compression introduces a *lot* of artifacts (it's very "lossy")
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2021-05-20 12:18:13	tete_	This image most likely belongs to bird with a 99.93 percent confidence.
2021-05-20 12:18:14	SnoopJ	in this case, no information should have been lost between the two
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2021-05-20 12:18:26	SnoopJ	tete_, what was the confidence before the color adjustment?
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2021-05-20 12:18:49	tete_	not sure anymore, i let it run again. takes about 1 min.
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2021-05-20 12:19:41	tete_	This image most likely belongs to bird with a 99.82 percent confidence.
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2021-05-20 12:20:06	SnoopJ	Not much difference, then. hmm!
2021-05-20 12:20:17	Zweimer	Why I am not able to set an array in a sequence like this? https://bpa.st/IZJQ
2021-05-20 12:21:08	SnoopJ	Zweimer, lut[i, 5] refers to a slot in that ndarray which will take exactly one value. You can't put something there that isn't compatible with the dtype (in this case, you're trying to store an entire sequence there)
2021-05-20 12:21:28	tete_	but does that make sense to use the equalized image you posted with my training data? because my training data is not equalized yet
2021-05-20 12:21:59	SnoopJ	Zweimer, you can replicate this error with: `arr = np.zeros(32); arr[5] = [1,2,3]` which is probably easier to understand
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2021-05-20 12:22:30	Zweimer	Dang! I am an idiot. I forgot to change the function back after debugging! Thanks.
2021-05-20 12:22:45	SnoopJ	tete_, sure, nothing is "off-limits" when you're trying to debug. You probably wouldn't want to do something so crude in "real" code, but we're not talking about doing that, we're just trying to figure out why it thinks it's a bird.
2021-05-20 12:23:02	tete_	ok
2021-05-20 12:23:04	SnoopJ	I don't have any other good guesses, though, except that the dataset looks very messy.
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2021-05-20 12:23:29	SnoopJ	I saw a lot of those "streaky" tigers when I clicked around at random. For all we know, maybe the network learned "images that are streaky like that are 'tiger'"
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2021-05-20 12:25:25	SnoopJ	Your network is small enough that you *could* look inside of it and try to identify what features it's learned, but that's a pretty complicated approach. Maybe you could ask your prof/TA about that, though.
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2021-05-20 12:25:58	SnoopJ	(understanding failures like this is an open area of research; I'm building something at $employer that tries to answer a similar question)
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2021-05-20 12:28:33	sartan	you can json.dumps(your_dict, indent=4)
2021-05-20 12:28:41	sartan	oh my scrollback was very stale, never mind
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2021-05-20 12:30:11	twobitsprite	so, somehow my pipenv on my mac in ~/.local/bin/pipenv got messed up, and it's trying to reference /opt/salt/bin/python3.7 ... I assume this is from some kind of saltstack installation, but I'm pretty sure I've never installed salt. this is a work laptop, so maybe my IT dept installed it, but I don't have and /opt/salt folder, and neither my system pip3, nor my virtualenv pip think pipenv is
2021-05-20 12:30:17	twobitsprite	installed... any hints on how to figure out what installed it, or how to fix pipenv?
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2021-05-20 12:32:28	mike18	hi - how can i mock 2 functions? one is called .get the other one is called .find - but internally calls .get ?
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2021-05-20 12:33:48	mike18	how to privide different mock data for find and get?
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2021-05-20 12:45:29	AlyssaXY	Hi
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2021-05-20 12:49:08	aocusr	mypy complaints about a = list(map(int, some_string.split('..')))  Incompatible types in assignment (expression has type "List[int]", variable has type "str")
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2021-05-20 12:49:57	aocusr	am I doing something wrong ?
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2021-05-20 12:50:17	sartan	some_string.split('..') will yield you a list
2021-05-20 12:50:29	sartan	mypy is correct, that code won't execute
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2021-05-20 12:50:39	sartan	can you share an example of your some_string?
2021-05-20 12:50:44	aocusr	the code runs amazingly
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2021-05-20 12:51:04	aocusr	try anything you want at your local python
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2021-05-20 12:52:14	sartan	What does some_string look like?
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2021-05-20 12:52:43	sartan	maybe i'm not understanding your input data type
2021-05-20 12:52:45	sartan	`1..2' ?
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2021-05-20 12:53:15	aocusr	forexample, yes
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2021-05-20 12:53:23	aocusr	1 1..2 1..2..3 ....
2021-05-20 12:53:27	sartan	[int(s) for s in '1..2..3'.split('..')]
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2021-05-20 12:53:46	mike18	hi im using a package which abstracts an api ... how can i see what calls the lib makes and whats received?
2021-05-20 12:53:58	mike18	on the network
2021-05-20 12:53:59	aocusr	yeah, but you did not exaplin to me what does mypy want
2021-05-20 12:54:29	aocusr	mike18: use a network sniffer, or strace, or maybe the lib has logging capabilities, or modify it to print that stuff out
2021-05-20 12:54:47	mike18	print doesnt tell me what http request the lib makes
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2021-05-20 12:55:30	sartan	http.client.HTTPConnection.debuglevel = 5
2021-05-20 12:55:39	sartan	try import httplib; httplib.HTTPConnection.debuglevel = 5
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2021-05-20 12:55:55	sartan	it'll dump the http requests without having to touch the underlying library you're using
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2021-05-20 12:56:35	mike18	where to set the http settings?
2021-05-20 12:56:51	sartan	surprisingly, that's it, that's all you have to do
2021-05-20 12:57:15	sartan	throw it in your code somewhere
2021-05-20 12:57:16	mike18	does it also show the response?
2021-05-20 12:57:19	sartan	it should
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2021-05-20 13:02:06	morgandark	are there any dev tools for initializing a bare bones web app? something like the one django uses, but for flask or bottle?
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2021-05-20 13:02:46	SnoopJ	morgandark, the `cookiecutter` library is designed for doing that, and there are probably cookiecutter templates for both of those.
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2021-05-20 13:03:10	SnoopJ	e.g. https://github.com/cookiecutter-flask/cookiecutter-flask https://github.com/avelino/cookiecutter-bottle
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2021-05-20 13:03:14	mike18	sartan: httplib2 0.19.1  ?
2021-05-20 13:03:19	mike18	or httplib ?
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2021-05-20 13:04:51	mike18	import http.client as httplib ?
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2021-05-20 13:06:20	morgandark	SnoopJ, thanks! im taking a looking at it now
2021-05-20 13:06:32	sysadmin	Remember Bitcoin in 2008??? Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, To claim your piece of pi goto https://minepi.com and use "ilkde" as your invitation code. Get your piece of the pi now !
2021-05-20 13:06:34	nedbat	aocusr: i think mypy is complaining because it thinks "a" is a str.  Did you declare it differently earlier in your code?
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2021-05-20 13:06:41	morgandark	mike18, isnt that a built-in python module?
2021-05-20 13:06:56	sartan	mike18: import requests;import http;http.client.HTTPConnection.debuglevel = 5;print(requests.get('https://google.ca'))
2021-05-20 13:07:00	sartan	This worked for me
2021-05-20 13:07:09	sartan	very verbose
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2021-05-20 13:07:22	sartan	i'm sorry i gave you python2 instructions, force of habit
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2021-05-20 13:07:30	sartan	that should work for py3
2021-05-20 13:07:30	SnoopJ	morgandark, yes, `http` is stdlib
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2021-05-20 13:07:49	mike18	sartan: ok how can i see the response body?
2021-05-20 13:07:55	sartan	it will be in stdout
2021-05-20 13:08:02	mike18	and request body
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2021-05-20 13:08:07	sartan	that too
2021-05-20 13:08:12	mike18	i only see header:
2021-05-20 13:08:34	sartan	i see send:
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2021-05-20 13:09:52	mike18	i did: import http.client as httplib httplib.HTTPConnection.debuglevel = 5
2021-05-20 13:09:58	mike18	in python3
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2021-05-20 13:10:45	mike18	what if the connection is https?
2021-05-20 13:10:56	mike18	i still see the body?
2021-05-20 13:10:59	cluelessperson_	morgandark, I like curio for a self contained small web app.
2021-05-20 13:11:24	aocusr	nedbat: thanks
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2021-05-20 13:11:36	sartan	mike18: I see what you're asking. Hang on I will write you something.
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2021-05-20 13:11:42	morgandark	SnoopJ, the only thing i don't like about it so far is that it uses bcrypt instead of scrypt... the bcyrpt library even discourages usage of the library now because it's considered dated.
2021-05-20 13:11:43	sartan	Perhaps
2021-05-20 13:11:43	mike18	hm ok
2021-05-20 13:11:43	nedbat	aocusr: is that what happened?
2021-05-20 13:11:59	SnoopJ	morgandark, "it" being `http`?
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2021-05-20 13:12:08	mike18	sartan: i tried the same import http as you - still only see header:
2021-05-20 13:12:15	morgandark	SnoopJ, cookiecutter-flask
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2021-05-20 13:12:20	sartan	yes you're right i don't see the body
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2021-05-20 13:12:33	SnoopJ	morgandark, it's easy to modify cookiecutter templates to suit your own wishes. That's the whole point.
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2021-05-20 13:12:57	morgandark	SnoopJ, cool
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2021-05-20 13:14:20	aocusr	nedbat: will check later, but it seems reasonable
2021-05-20 13:14:22	bancroft	my google-fu is failing, how do I go from hex() -> b"\x..."
2021-05-20 13:14:36	nedbat	aocusr: this is one of the reasons we ask to see your code, btw
2021-05-20 13:14:41	zumba_addict	Folks, importing a directory using dash says incorr3ect syntax. SHould it be underscore?
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2021-05-20 13:14:50	aocusr	bancroft: ascii() ?
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2021-05-20 13:15:36	bancroft	aocusr: that makes a string, I needs a b""
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2021-05-20 13:16:17	jiffe	are there use cases for combining asyncio and threads ?
2021-05-20 13:16:46	pileus	!FWServer %EF3FE81F7F4D% Michael Connelly - Harry Bosch 01 - The Black Echo.epub  ::INFO:: 693.44KB
2021-05-20 13:17:48	pileus	!DV8 Michael Connelly - Harry Bosch 01 - The Black Echo (EPUB).rar  ::INFO:: 755.0KB
2021-05-20 13:17:53	nedbat	bancroft: where are you getting the hex?
2021-05-20 13:17:57	nedbat	pileus: please don't
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2021-05-20 13:18:28	bancroft	nedbat: hex(zlib.crc32( ...
2021-05-20 13:18:51	nedbat	bancroft: i think you just need to drop the hex(), no?  What type is crc32 returning?
2021-05-20 13:19:19	bancroft	nedbat: looks like an int but the rest of the file i'm writing has b""
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2021-05-20 13:19:38	bancroft	yup it's an int
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2021-05-20 13:19:45	nedbat	bancroft: ok, if it's an int, then use struct.pack
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2021-05-20 13:19:59	bancroft	nedbat: ah great, thank you
2021-05-20 13:20:50	nedbat	bancroft: oh, or that_int.to_bytes()
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2021-05-20 13:23:47	bancroft	nedbat: great, so for crc32 it's .to_bytes(4, "big") if you wanted to know :)
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2021-05-20 13:25:14	mike18	sartan: you think seeing the http body is possible?
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2021-05-20 13:26:00	nanonyme	bancroft, I really love the to_bytes and from_bytes methods
2021-05-20 13:26:05	CustosLimen	hi, is there something like https://github.com/spf13/viper for python that is maintained? I want to easily manage config from a bunch of sources
2021-05-20 13:26:31	bancroft	nanonyme: yeah, it's the first i'm hearing about them and i'm happy
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2021-05-20 13:28:43	jayjo	how does pyobjc work in terms of wrapping obj-c functions, and how does the final product run? Is there one python process that interacts with an additional obj-c process? https://github.com/ronaldoussoren/pyobjc
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2021-05-20 13:30:46	jayjo	What I'm actually interested in is using python to interact with driverkit, but I think i should understand this first. The pyobjc page says that DriverKit will not be wrapped because it is too low level
2021-05-20 13:31:18	jayjo	it actually says in the changelog: "The userspace driver frameworks introduced in macOS 10.15 (DriverKit and related frameworks) will not be exposed through PyObjC. Please let me know if you have a good use case for using these frameworks with Python."
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2021-05-20 13:31:52	jayjo	and the "Will not be wrapped, too low level.
2021-05-20 13:32:06	jayjo	" is here: https://pyobjc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/notes/framework-wrappers.html
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2021-05-20 13:34:55	sartan	Almost done for you mike18
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2021-05-20 13:46:47	mike18	sartan: ok
2021-05-20 13:47:02	sartan	I'm trying to monkeypatch the get and response methods in a generic way
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2021-05-20 13:51:05	sartan	the problem with logging the response body is that it consumes the read buffer
2021-05-20 13:51:11	sartan	so this can impact downstream stuff
2021-05-20 13:53:00	mike18	why not copy the buffer?
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2021-05-20 13:53:26	mike18	so that the buffer can be read twice?
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2021-05-20 13:54:51	mike18	i only know how to to it in golang :D
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2021-05-20 13:56:11	dbear	I would like to develop some python based dashboards -- and have been playing with jupyterlab and jupyterhub -- can anyone suggest system similar to these that would allow me to generate the dashboards with widgets but not have the code 'editable' thru the web ?
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2021-05-20 14:03:44	amo	dbear, you could just convert the jupyter notebooks to html?
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2021-05-20 14:08:48	mefistofeles	dbear: voila https://github.com/voila-dashboards/voila
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2021-05-20 14:14:06	A3	In MATLAB I'm accustomed to putting my functions at the bottom of my scripts. In Python must I become accustomed to putting them at the top instead (i.e. always prior to their call)?
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2021-05-20 14:19:50	ammar2	A3: not necessarily, if you use the pattern of having a "main" function in your code instead of coding at the leftmost indentation level then you can order your functions whichever way you want
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2021-05-20 14:23:53	redsh	I like having a main function so scopes are a bit more clear.
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2021-05-20 14:24:06	A3	ooooh, new feature unlocked ... is there a consensus on which is more legible? it seems to me that putting functions in an appendix at the end is better to read the logic of a program
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2021-05-20 14:24:16	A3	redsh, did you just say what I tried to articulate here?
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2021-05-20 14:24:38	A3	('scopes' is a new word for me)
2021-05-20 14:25:21	redsh	Well, yeah, you can just put a main function at the top, then have your utility functions after that, then at the very bottom, you can have if __name__ == '__main__':  main()
2021-05-20 14:25:53	redsh	Or just main() if you want. Though then you'll have to change it to the __name__ thing if you want to import code from a different file without executing main()
2021-05-20 14:26:00	A3	i don't know what that means yet; i'll search 'python main function' and try to find a webpage
2021-05-20 14:26:16	redsh	It's just a convention, not a real language feature or anything.
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2021-05-20 14:26:32	A3	then i lack the experience to know what you are symbolizing
2021-05-20 14:26:47	redsh	Well. Err. By scoping, I'm mostly just talking about variable names and stuff.
2021-05-20 14:26:56	A3	that's what i inferred, thanks
2021-05-20 14:27:10	redsh	To have a clearer idea of what I want globally, and what I want just in main()
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2021-05-20 14:32:13	A3	https://www.guru99.com/learn-python-main-function-with-examples-understand-main.html is making me think main() is intended for running the .py script as a 'function' in another .py script
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2021-05-20 14:32:54	A3	it seems improper to execute the script i'm wanting to run by an if __name__ == "__main__": main() clause
2021-05-20 14:33:21	A3	i mean, that seems an odd way to say "run the main contents of this script please"
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2021-05-20 14:34:08	bjs	A3: so there are two things here, the first is that when you run a script or import a file it does the same thing: it runs the file.
2021-05-20 14:34:53	bjs	A3: and the `if __name__ == "__main__"` part is really just like "if being run as a script".
2021-05-20 14:35:18	A3	oh, thanks for clarifying. that's not so weird then
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2021-05-20 14:35:51	bjs	A3: There are reasons to collect things into a `main` function, even if you do not intend to import the file.  Functions obviously let you run code from elsewhere,  and to reduce redundancy, but they can also help structure the program by giving useful names to parts of it.
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2021-05-20 14:36:32	bjs	A3: yeah the __name__ == "__main__" stuff is totally obscure and does not really help in understanding what it does,  but sadly it is the "standard" way in Python to check whether you're being run as a script or being imported by someone else.
2021-05-20 14:37:45	A3	ouch, but using def main() to push all the functions to the bottom of the script incurs a strip of empty white space ...... do i just have to get used to all the white space in python?
2021-05-20 14:37:52	A3	"buy a bigger monitor" sort of thing?
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2021-05-20 14:38:19	supakeen	Turn it on its side, it's easier for reading code ;)
2021-05-20 14:38:29	bjs	A3: i'm not sure what you mean exactly "to push all the functions to the bottom",  but yes a `def` means there's an extra layer of whitespace
2021-05-20 14:38:30	A3	:O
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2021-05-20 14:39:14	A3	bjs, i mean if I don't use def main() etc then i must define each function prior to its being called, and that makes a script a bit clunkier to read through to figure out what it's doing
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2021-05-20 14:39:42	bjs	A3: ah yes,  it's a big reason why people like to use functions in general
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2021-05-20 14:39:45	A3	i prefer to write code where someone can just read it top to bottom and reference called functions in an appendix as needed
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2021-05-20 14:40:26	Samian	my company's cofounder runs Windows 10. I want him to be able to run my python program. What should I do? Tell him to install anaconda and all the requisite packages? I don't want to dump work on him. I want instead to take work off his plate by prepackaging the program as much as I can
2021-05-20 14:41:06	bjs	Samian: see something like pyinstaller to produce an .exe with everything packaged together
2021-05-20 14:41:29	Samian	bjs,  hell yes!!!! thank you!!!
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2021-05-20 14:41:40	Samian	bjs,  I hope I can do that from ubuntu
2021-05-20 14:42:10	supakeen	You need a Windows machine to build a Windows binary.
2021-05-20 14:42:12	bjs	Samian: I think for pyinstaller you have to produce the windows executable on a windows machine,  but I've not used it myself so that might have changed
2021-05-20 14:42:15	supakeen	pyinstaller is not a cross-compiler.
2021-05-20 14:42:20	BrenBarn	is the person comfortable on the command-line?  do they know anything about Python?
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2021-05-20 14:42:29	Samian	I see cool
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2021-05-20 14:44:35	mspe	depending on libraries used by your script, you could just use a portable msys2 distribution on windows
2021-05-20 14:44:50	mspe	python3 and libs are in the repos
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2021-05-20 14:48:34	A3	Do I put import pandas as pd first before def main()?
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2021-05-20 14:50:05	bjs	A3: usually people put all the imports right at the top of the file
2021-05-20 14:51:41	A3	am I correct in thinking if I import inside def main() then it won't be accessible to the functions called later? i.e. it's put at the top so all the def's can benefit from it, right?
2021-05-20 14:51:52	bjs	A3: yes
2021-05-20 14:51:55	IoannisJVM	Hello,i'm trying to work with a machine-learning model that is written in jupyter. What's the most optimal solution? I converted it to python file.
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2021-05-20 14:52:41	ChrisWarrick	IoannisJVM: models written in notebooks tend to be quick hacks…
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2021-05-20 14:53:09	bjs	either very quick hacks,  or very very carefully crafted and produced and then put into a notebook to show it off
2021-05-20 14:53:14	bjs	and nothing inbetween :P
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2021-05-20 14:53:55	scrabblethebabbl	IoannisJVM: You can convert the notebooks to .py files afterwards
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2021-05-20 14:55:18	mike18	hi sartan
2021-05-20 14:55:23	mike18	sorry got disconnected
2021-05-20 14:55:28	mike18	sartan:
2021-05-20 14:55:59	nedbat	A3: "import x" is just like an assignment statement "x = 1".  The name is global or local depending on where it's used.
2021-05-20 14:56:10	sartan	hey mike18. I really can't figure out how to copy this buffer transaprently without breaking all of the layers between urllib, http.client, and requests lib
2021-05-20 14:56:25	sartan	Even when i read() it, it's a blcoking operation. I'm a bit puzzled
2021-05-20 14:56:27	mike18	ok :D
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2021-05-20 14:56:47	mike18	sartan: why does it break?
2021-05-20 14:56:57	sartan	I tried copying the buffer output, I tried unrolling the buffer and recreating a new io.BufferedRead object but I just couldn't get it
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2021-05-20 14:57:28	sartan	the http client adapters used by requests lib/urllib work with streams and not with simple strings
2021-05-20 14:58:14	sartan	interrupting the stream or changing the file descriptor halfway through with hacky workarounds is causing breakages. the other challenge here is that we want to do this with only a single entrypoint that doesn't require any code change at all to any other libraries or your existing code: we want something that can do all this in a like 'if debug is True, log the heck out of everything http'
2021-05-20 14:58:34	sartan	after al this i'm not surprised the default libs also don't support logging the body
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2021-05-20 14:59:57	A3	nedbat, that's what I thought, thanks -- just verifying main() didn't have special properties such that imported things were made global
2021-05-20 15:00:20	nedbat	A3: python knows nothing about main(), it's just a convention
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2021-05-20 15:01:12	amo	i never use main(), i don't see any point
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2021-05-20 15:02:05	amo	if __name__ == "__main__" on the other hand is a no-brainer
2021-05-20 15:02:06	A3	amo, isn't it good to write your code as 'human-readable' as possible so others can read it and understand it quickly?
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2021-05-20 15:02:36	amo	A3, what kind of code exactly are you writing?
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2021-05-20 15:03:58	KirkMcDonald	I tend to define a 'main' function (and to call it from a `__name__ == "__main__"` block) just because it's nicer to have the code that "does" things inside of a function.
2021-05-20 15:04:15	KirkMcDonald	Keeps the local scope separate from the module scope.
2021-05-20 15:04:24	A3	amo, any code I think deserves best practices ...
2021-05-20 15:04:30	sartan	i tend to reserve my main() usages for things that take argparse arguments
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2021-05-20 15:04:44	sartan	but the actual class/code i use is defined outside that class
2021-05-20 15:04:50	amo	KirkMcDonald, you could as well put the working code beneath the check or put it into an extra main.py
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2021-05-20 15:05:12	KirkMcDonald	amo: Again, that does not separate the scopes.
2021-05-20 15:05:16	nanonyme	Having a main function is great. You can then easily roll entrypoints and whatnots out of it
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2021-05-20 15:06:04	A3	nanonyme, what does 'roll entrypoints' mean?
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2021-05-20 15:07:09	amo	i'd say it depends on your usecase, if you're working with a CLI framework like click, it might be the pattern to go for
2021-05-20 15:07:44	amo	for a pyqt application on the other hand..
2021-05-20 15:08:01	amo	it might get a bit convoluted
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2021-05-20 15:08:16	kbentley57	Hi guys, I'm trying to build a project using cython and pybind 11, and while it builds ok, when it runs I'm getting a lot of "undefined symbols" relating to the c++ libs.  Any suggestions on where to start picking this problem apart?  I'm much more of a CMake/linux/bash/c++ than python and setuptools.
2021-05-20 15:08:55	amo	A3, best practices? try "import this" ;)
2021-05-20 15:09:03	nanonyme	A3, https://setuptools.readthedocs.io/en/latest/userguide/entry_point.html
2021-05-20 15:09:32	A3	amo ?
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2021-05-20 15:09:54	amo	A3, type it in a python console, you'll see :)
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2021-05-20 15:10:34	A3	... i hear scary music >_>
2021-05-20 15:10:49	amo	be not afraid
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2021-05-20 15:11:31	guriya	amo import this doesn't help anyone as they are simple words
2021-05-20 15:12:00	SnoopJ	kbentley57, first step would be to figure out where the undefined symbols are defined, then figure out why that isn't being included in the linking phase.
2021-05-20 15:12:53	amo	guriya, it helps in setting the right state of mind when asking these questions
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2021-05-20 15:13:32	A3	thanks
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2021-05-20 15:13:38	amo	welcome :)
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2021-05-20 15:15:22	IoannisJVM	my flask app can't import a module although it has a __init__.py file
2021-05-20 15:15:23	A3	how can I tell whether it's okay to name something say 'data' or 'str' and when that risks overwriting some built-in name?
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2021-05-20 15:15:55	SnoopJ	kbentley57, discussion is best kept to the channel, more eyes makes tricky problems shallow etc.
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2021-05-20 15:16:33	SnoopJ	but yes, the problem is not in the compile phase, the linker isn't including all the symbols your source wants
2021-05-20 15:16:34	amo	A3, if you use an IDE like vscode, you can tell by autocompletion
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2021-05-20 15:17:11	amo	A3, for deep-diving into python, i'd recommend Thonny though
2021-05-20 15:17:24	kbentley57	SnoopJ - Do you think --no-undefined would help here as a linker flag?
2021-05-20 15:17:49	A3	does vscode have a place to explore what existing variables are in memory after executing a script like MATLAB (or Spyder)?
2021-05-20 15:17:58	A3	amo i thought vscode > Thonny
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2021-05-20 15:18:48	amo	A3, vscode does much more than thonny, thonny is much more focused on giving good feedback for beginners and around debugging
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2021-05-20 15:19:16	SnoopJ	kbentley57, it would cause the error more promptly, but the issue won't be resolved until you make those symbols available to the code that wants it. That probably means adding -lwhatever to your linker invocation
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2021-05-20 15:19:45	SnoopJ	(and hopefully identifying libwhatever is easy enough from looking at which symbols are undefined)
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2021-05-20 15:20:11	amo	A3, i personally prefer thonny for debugging simple scripts and experimenting with crazy ideas, but vscode for larger projects
2021-05-20 15:20:23	amo	i hope that makes sense
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2021-05-20 15:21:43	Bombo	i got a question about exceptions: i'm using https://docs.python.org/3/library/smtplib.html e.g. except smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused as e: print(e) i get the msg
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2021-05-20 15:22:39	Bombo	but can i do 'except smtplib.SMTPException as e: print(e)' (which prints the same msg) can i get the 'SMTPRecipientsRefused' too?
2021-05-20 15:23:14	kbentley57	SnoopJ, I just did a nm on the library that cmake produced from sources, and the symbol exist in it, but it shows it as undefined, though the body of the function is in the source files.  I can compile the library by hand with a long g++ command using the same source files, and the symbol shows there (T).
2021-05-20 15:23:21	Bombo	so basically handle all errors, but print which one it is ;)
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2021-05-20 15:23:40	Bombo	which one it would trigger
2021-05-20 15:23:46	kbentley57	SnoopJ, is there a reason the compiler would leave a symbol undefined like it's doing?
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2021-05-20 15:24:11	kbentley57	SnoopJ, it seems so simply different that it's blowing my mind, haha.
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2021-05-20 15:24:34	SnoopJ	Bombo, yes, because SMTPRecipientsRefused is a subclass of SMTPException and it's basically calling isinstance() to check the class
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2021-05-20 15:24:46	A3	thanks ... i'm looking at https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux now trying to figure out how to install ipykernel for code
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2021-05-20 15:27:51	SnoopJ	kbentley57, I doubt that it is. Compilers eat source code and spit out object code. Linkers take object code from possibly many types of sources (i.e. object files, shared libraries, etc.) and combine them into an executable or library (or whatever). One second, I have an example that should illustrate what I'm talking about
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2021-05-20 15:28:18	kbentley57	SnoopJ thanks, I'm being humbled by this one
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2021-05-20 15:30:10	Bombo	SnoopJ: i mean can i get the string "SMTPRecipientsRefused" when i just check SMTPException
2021-05-20 15:30:17	kosh	om nom nom nom yummy source code
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2021-05-20 15:33:50	Laibsch	How should I handle packages installed with pip in my user directory when updating the major version of python?  How to clean things up?
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2021-05-20 15:34:17	Laibsch	Pip installs into a python-version-specific directory.
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2021-05-20 15:37:08	A3	Where do I see existing variables after executing my script? I have become accustomed to having a panel to see what existing variables I have and what their types and contents are in MATLAB and Spyder; how is this done in VSCode for Python?
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2021-05-20 15:37:43	amo	you can enable debugging mode in vscode
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2021-05-20 15:38:53	amo	but as i said, i find thonny is better for introspection and working out the details of small scripts
2021-05-20 15:39:20	Deyaa	Hi
2021-05-20 15:39:31	amo	hi Deyaa
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2021-05-20 15:40:18	amo	A3, sure you could also use spyder, if that is what you're comfortable with?
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2021-05-20 15:41:22	SnoopJ	kbentley57, sorry about that, I had to dust off the example a little bit. Have a look at this and see if it helps clarify the broad idea of what is going on in your program: https://bpaste.net/GSJQ
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2021-05-20 15:42:03	SnoopJ	the symbol U next to _Z3foov means "undefined" if that's unclear
2021-05-20 15:42:54	kbentley57	SnoopJ,  Work's got that one blocked, I think.  Lame.
2021-05-20 15:43:26	kbentley57	SnoopJ I'll bring it up on my phone
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2021-05-20 15:44:14	SnoopJ	kbentley57, https://gist.github.com/SnoopJeDi/03d37c03903f134a2c0d0e4913661bcb
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2021-05-20 15:47:00	kbentley57	SnoopJ Thanks!  I can see that now.  I'm going to re-trace my steps and make sure I'm not constantly repeating the same mistake.
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2021-05-20 15:47:50	SnoopJ	kbentley57, so, coming back to your issue: let's trust that the compiler emitted object code for every definition fed to it and properly made space in the symbol files of files that #include others (like bar.o makes space for the symbol foo to be defined at some point in the future)
2021-05-20 15:48:53	Deyaa	Anyone here have and idea about laravel socialite? I want to convert the package to python but I'm facing some issues
2021-05-20 15:49:23	SnoopJ	_Probably_ you want to include these missing symbols in the link phase. The most common offender there is where you want to link against a library, but you forgot to tell the linker about it (usually with the -l flag)
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2021-05-20 15:49:55	SnoopJ	If you tell me what the missing symbols are I might be able to tell you something more specific :)
2021-05-20 15:50:22	kbentley57	SnoopJ, It's mostly not my code, and their CMake setup / Setup.py is pretty horrendous looking, so that adds to the layer of mistrust I've got in their process..haha.
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2021-05-20 15:51:00	SnoopJ	yea this can happen really easily with CMake if it's not written with care
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2021-05-20 15:51:49	kbentley57	They call a hardcoded cmake from inside the setup.py and different parts are responsible for a few different things. It's a bit unexpected from a project this large.
2021-05-20 15:51:51	 *	SnoopJ has had to fix a failed wrapping build because of undefined symbols more than once when coworkers juggle targets around
2021-05-20 15:52:44	SnoopJ	kbentley57, sounds like a lot of computer vision code I've seen, heh.
2021-05-20 15:53:04	kbentley57	SnoopJ I didn't want to mention any names, but you're hot :)
2021-05-20 15:53:25	SnoopJ	"Ah, Tensorflow. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."
2021-05-20 15:53:30	kbentley57	lol
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2021-05-20 15:53:37	SnoopJ	Probably not them, I don't think they use pybind11 :)
2021-05-20 15:54:01	kbentley57	It's OpenSfM, for a project sponsored by FB it's some hot mess at the moment
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2021-05-20 15:54:25	kbentley57	but yes I've had to mess with TF too
2021-05-20 15:55:03	SnoopJ	so what symbols are missing?
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2021-05-20 15:56:12	IanLiu	I'm using asdf to manage different python versions (similar to pyenv), and "python --version" return 3.10.0b1. Now, when I run "poetry new test", and "cd test && poetry install", poetry picks up my system python (3.9). How do I specify poetry to use the currently available python?
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2021-05-20 15:57:37	kbentley57	I'm going to have to rebuild before I can tell you.  I thought maybe my env was toast from everything I was trying, so I just nuked it all and started over.  It's building the dependencies first, that always takes a few minutes.  It's usually symbols from the akaze or features library.  I'll get it up in a sec.
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2021-05-20 15:59:32	SnoopJ	IanLiu, I think that's `poetry env use /path/to/your/python`
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2021-05-20 16:02:22	nate4444	I'm trying to automate a json configuration file generator. Is it best to generate it as a dict and just convert to json?
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2021-05-20 16:03:41	grawity	that definitely sounds better than trying to print("{") etc
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2021-05-20 16:05:48	Deyaa	Is there a temporary data storage package for python that I can use instead of session?
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2021-05-20 16:06:06	Deyaa	I'm building oauth for desktop
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2021-05-20 16:11:26	SnoopJ	Deyaa, why don't you want to store your data in a session?
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2021-05-20 16:15:22	sartan	nate4444: yeah.
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2021-05-20 16:19:06	nate4444	In a dataclass, you can exclude a variable from the auto init?
2021-05-20 16:19:22	nate4444	sartan, grawity: cool, thanks
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2021-05-20 16:20:16	SnoopJ	nate4444, yes, use dataclasses.field and pass init=False https://docs.python.org/3/library/dataclasses.html#dataclasses.field
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2021-05-20 16:21:18	nate4444	SnoopJ: Ah my bad I missed that. Thanks
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2021-05-20 16:22:27	Deyaa	SnoopJ: I want the package to be independent without using any extra packages like flask
2021-05-20 16:22:48	SnoopJ	Deyaa, ouch.
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2021-05-20 16:23:20	nedbat	Deyaa: why avoid using useful code?
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2021-05-20 16:24:29	Deyaa	What if someone else wants to use it with Django? nedbat
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2021-05-20 16:25:00	SnoopJ	you don't need flask to have a session
2021-05-20 16:25:02	nedbat	Deyaa: that gets intricate, it's true.
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2021-05-20 16:25:56	Deyaa	SnoopJ: really !!
2021-05-20 16:26:09	Deyaa	What should I use?
2021-05-20 16:26:29	Deyaa	nedbat: yeah man
2021-05-20 16:26:43	nedbat	i want to use subprocess.getoutput, but i want bytes so that i can try different encodings.  i don't see a way to do it :(
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2021-05-20 16:27:31	Deyaa	Laravel/socialite is doing a greate job but they are using the built in request package
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2021-05-20 16:28:14	Deyaa	nedbat: bytes(p)
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2021-05-20 16:29:09	SnoopJ	Deyaa, requests.Session is good. That said, I'd probably look for a library that does oauth
2021-05-20 16:29:10	nedbat	Deyaa: I'm not sure what p is if I am starting with:  subprocess.getoutput(CMD)
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2021-05-20 16:30:11	Deyaa	p = subprocess ..
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2021-05-20 16:30:27	Deyaa	The convert it to python
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2021-05-20 16:30:51	grawity	didn't know that exists, but it kinda looks like a legacy function... I'd have used subprocess.run(["foo", "bar"], stdout=subprocess.PIPE) as its .stdout and .stderr are bytes
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2021-05-20 16:31:39	Deyaa	Convert it to bytes **
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2021-05-20 16:31:44	SnoopJ	nedbat, yea, looks like getoutput() calls getstatusoutput() which explicitly passes text=True
2021-05-20 16:32:39	nedbat	oh well
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2021-05-20 16:34:38	SnoopJ	check_output() is close-ish
2021-05-20 16:35:21	SnoopJ	which is where that ends up (well, it ends up in run(), but that's much less "show me the output of this command")
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2021-05-20 16:39:49	Deyaa	SnoopJ: requests is used for sending requests
2021-05-20 16:40:06	SnoopJ	yes indeed
2021-05-20 16:40:17	Deyaa	Web server sessions ar used for storing data locally
2021-05-20 16:40:32	Deyaa	To compare it with the response data
2021-05-20 16:40:39	 *	SnoopJ shrugs
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2021-05-20 16:40:58	SnoopJ	Did my best to guess at the question's complete context there
2021-05-20 16:41:28	Deyaa	Thanks man anyway
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2021-05-20 16:46:37	testnode	Hi all
2021-05-20 16:47:04	testnode	Is me again!
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2021-05-20 16:47:26	amo	mario!
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2021-05-20 16:48:03	jbeez	hello
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2021-05-20 16:49:01	testnode	I'm working with python-mysql(ssh-tunnel) and whant to show my tables graphical like a Excel or Query Workbench. (sorry for my poor english)
2021-05-20 16:49:23	jbeez	I have a script thats been working for quite a while that just stopped, I think python version had a minor update, its running 2.7.17 currently.  Anyway i try to run this command python -c 'import sys, json; myobj = json.load(sys.stdin); print(myobjblahblahblah     and it tells me ImportError: No module named site
2021-05-20 16:49:32	jbeez	I don't see where I'm trying to import "site"?
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2021-05-20 16:50:00	SnoopJ	jbeez, `site` is one of the modules that's imported at interpreter startup
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2021-05-20 16:50:34	SnoopJ	`python3 -c "import sys; print('site' in sys.modules)  # is site imported?"` -> True
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2021-05-20 16:51:11	jbeez	my hampsters are spinning
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2021-05-20 16:51:39	SnoopJ	you can turn that behavior off with -S in Python3, but I'm not sure about archaeological versions
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2021-05-20 16:53:12	jbeez	this is a hacky script to update Plex media server on a freenas installation OR freebsd installation, and I'm merely leveraging the version of Python that plex ships which they aptly name, "Plex Script Host" but its really a python binary
2021-05-20 16:53:54	jbeez	one of the constraints was to use what was there, but let me see if i can disable it in this version as well
2021-05-20 16:54:07	SnoopJ	jbeez, I'd see if it accepts the -S commandline flag, which will suppress this import
2021-05-20 16:54:25	SnoopJ	AFAICT the flag itself has been around for a while, it's definitely there in my 2.7.18
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2021-05-20 16:55:39	jbeez	it takes the flag, then tells me it cant import module json
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2021-05-20 16:56:26	SnoopJ	Sounds like a weird Python, then.
2021-05-20 16:56:55	SnoopJ	maybe missing the stdlib
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2021-05-20 16:58:03	jbeez	I see a lib/libpython27.so  but i may have to feed it where its location is now or something, going to try a few things
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2021-05-20 16:59:36	SnoopJ	libpython is basically the interpreter
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2021-05-20 17:01:14	SnoopJ	but json should live in the interpreter site, it's not "built-in" in the sense that it isn't part of libpython/etc.
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2021-05-20 17:10:09	testnode	Hi all
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2021-05-20 17:10:22	testnode	Me again!
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2021-05-20 17:11:39	testnode	I'm working with python-mysql(ssh-tunnel) and I want to show my ouput tables graphical like an Excel or Query Workbench. (sorry for my poor english), How can i do this? (Jupyter notebook maybe, but i don't know how)
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2021-05-20 17:20:21	nate4444	If I have two Paths, one a full path ('/home/a/b/c/d'), and a child path ('a/b/c/d'), is there a way to get an output of '/home'. The mutual exclusion of the two paths?
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2021-05-20 17:23:28	nate4444	The opposite of relative_to
2021-05-20 17:23:37	ChrisWarrick	testnode: well, that depends on what you want to do with those tables. perhaps all you need is an export to .csv or .xlsx. Or perhaps you’d need something more complicated for real-time editing.
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2021-05-20 17:29:14	testnode	ChrisWarrick: Only to show output, but not using excel.
2021-05-20 17:29:30	ChrisWarrick	testnode: why not using excel?
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2021-05-20 17:32:30	testnode	ChrisWarrick: well, i need some data from mysql, proccess some information and obtain any result, but i want to show like by rows with columns with header and can move into the sheet or table with my mouse. in a meeting
2021-05-20 17:33:16	ChrisWarrick	testnode: I’d look into an existing tool that does that with mysql instead of rolling your own
2021-05-20 17:33:24	testnode	ChrisWarrick: but, you are right, write my output  in a cvs file and open with Excel to show it .
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2021-05-20 17:33:48	brutamontes	is there any tool to get emails from url list?
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2021-05-20 17:33:55	ChrisWarrick	testnode: otherwise, you could look for libraries that can do this for your web thing of choice, or you could try with qt… but again, that’s a lot of work
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2021-05-20 17:35:26	redsh	brutamontes: Emails? URL lists? What?
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2021-05-20 17:35:55	mike18	can someone tell my why the following give error ValueError: I/O operation on closed file? https://ideone.com/kZfjsl
2021-05-20 17:36:09	redsh	There's a SMTP module in the standard library for sending email. There's some third-party libraries with IMAP support too.
2021-05-20 17:36:59	testnode	ChrisWarrick: It is my first step, then y need to write my output in a json to comunicate with laravel and php. (I don't know if it is posible but i said yes)
2021-05-20 17:37:46	redsh	mike18: Because you're assigning `output` to `debug_data` on line 9, and right after that, the context manager (`with BytesIO as output:`) closes, closing `output`.
2021-05-20 17:37:56	ChrisWarrick	testnode: I wouldn’t bother with much more than excel then
2021-05-20 17:38:01	redsh	And hence, closing `debug_data`
2021-05-20 17:38:02	mike18	how to assign it correctly?
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2021-05-20 17:38:56	redsh	I guess you could just do `debug_data = output.getbuffer()` on line 9 or whatever you need to do to get the data, and then `f.write(debug_data)` on line 12?
2021-05-20 17:39:23	mike18	can i use the debug_data in 12 than?
2021-05-20 17:39:33	mike18	ok
2021-05-20 17:39:42	mike18	i guess getbuffer gets the actual data
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2021-05-20 17:40:27	mike18	now i get: BufferError: Existing exports of data: object cannot be re-sized
2021-05-20 17:40:32	mike18	for debug_data = output.getbuffer()
2021-05-20 17:41:02	testnode	ChrisWarrick: thanks for your orientation, I will continue
2021-05-20 17:41:18	ChrisWarrick	testnode: you’re welcome!
2021-05-20 17:41:32	redsh	I think it should be getvalue(), not getbuffer()
2021-05-20 17:41:40	redsh	Plus maybe a seek(0) beforehand?
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2021-05-20 17:43:26	mike18	and getvalue i can use to write the file?
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2021-05-20 17:48:00	brutamontes	redsh: yes
2021-05-20 17:48:04	brutamontes	to generate leads
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2021-05-20 17:48:27	redsh	brutamontes: What do lists of URLs and emails have to do with each other?
2021-05-20 17:48:27	ChrisWarrick	brutamontes: don’t spam people
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2021-05-20 17:48:53	brutamontes	redsh: what do you mean?
2021-05-20 17:48:59	brutamontes	ChrisWarrick: stfu...
2021-05-20 17:49:04	redsh	brutamontes: Hey, that's my line.
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2021-05-20 17:49:08	redsh	lol
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2021-05-20 17:49:46	mike18	redsh: and getvalue i can use to write the file?
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2021-05-20 17:51:06	redsh	mike18: If you call getvalue() within the context manager.
2021-05-20 17:51:24	mike18	or return it?
2021-05-20 17:51:37	mike18	pack it into a function...?
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2021-05-20 17:51:48	mike18	return ... getvalue()
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2021-05-20 17:53:54	nedbat	brutamontes: everything ok?
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2021-05-20 17:54:25	redsh	Why would you return it? It seems like the goal is to write the contents to a file, not return it from a function. But sure, if that's what you want.
2021-05-20 17:54:52	mike18	redsh: i tried that: https://ideone.com/cIbQiM ... but i cannot see a file beeing created
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2021-05-20 17:56:19	redsh	I don't know what to do about a missing file.
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2021-05-20 17:56:24	mike18	redsh: im running it in a unit test
2021-05-20 17:56:45	mike18	oh wait - im running it in docker ^^
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2021-05-20 17:57:35	mike18	forgot to mount stuff
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2021-05-20 18:07:25	dubbie	from x import y ... what are the names for x and y? library and function?
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2021-05-20 18:08:05	amo	function or class
2021-05-20 18:08:21	amo	and yes+
2021-05-20 18:08:32	nedbat	dubbie: x is module
2021-05-20 18:10:04	redsh	x is a module, y is anything from the module (function, class, constant etc.)
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2021-05-20 18:11:05	dubbie	ok cool. and you can look up each function on a module's documentation? if it's not at python.org, you have to hunt down the site?
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2021-05-20 18:11:45	dubbie	so classes end in () it's not what's in the () that's called the class?
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2021-05-20 18:12:13	nedbat	dubbie: i'm not sure what you mean by "classes end in ()"?
2021-05-20 18:12:22	petn-randall	dubbie: That works, or you can simply call `help(function_name)` in the python interactive shell.
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2021-05-20 18:14:36	jbeez	SnoopJ: doing some comparisons on a very old version I had archived (2.7.12) compared to their current (2.7.17) implementation, it looks like before all the modules were directly here /usr/local/share/plexmediaserver-plexpass/Resources/Python/lib/python2.7/     and on the new install in that directory is merely another directory called site-packages
2021-05-20 18:14:52	jbeez	pretty sure this is all just some goofy enviornment thing i need to figure out and define
2021-05-20 18:16:23	dubbie	nedbat: i always mix up the jargon cause i can't really remember the differences bettwen classes and objects and classinfo etc.
2021-05-20 18:16:28	dubbie	petn-randall: thank you
2021-05-20 18:16:35	SnoopJ	nate4444, if they were both anchored, you could use os.path.commonpath(). Here's a solution I doodled up that walks both paths in reverse. Not sure if I caught all the edge cases though: https://bpaste.net/4R7A
2021-05-20 18:17:06	SnoopJ	I guess actually if they were both anchored, the guard at the top of that function would apply: it wouldn't really make sense for one to prefix the other
2021-05-20 18:17:29	petn-randall	dubbie: "class" is the template, "object" is an instance of a class. Think of it as a rubber stamp being the class, and every print on the paper being an instance.
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2021-05-20 18:18:36	dubbie	petn-randall: nice
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2021-05-20 18:19:16	dubbie	is there like a cheat sheet or some kind of riddle/poem thing like that for the basic syntax? so i can memorize it better/easier
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2021-05-20 18:20:49	dubbie	i'm doing a trafficlights demo from gpiozero and i've got everything to work, but i want to get lights.green.blink() to blink faster, but when i put numbers in the () i get syntax errors. just want it to blink quickly
2021-05-20 18:21:06	SnoopJ	nate4444, oh, the `islice` in that file is just noise, too. I had a few false starts at this problem :)
2021-05-20 18:21:14	nedbat	dubbie: if you put your code into a pastebin, we can help with the errors.
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2021-05-20 18:23:16	dubbie	https://pastebin.com/wkjUdbxp
2021-05-20 18:23:17	infobob	https://bpaste.net/GE2Q (repasted for dubbie)
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2021-05-20 18:25:07	redsh	Seperate arguments are seperated by commas. i.e .05, .05
2021-05-20 18:26:22	nedbat	dubbie: did you see redsh's suggestion?
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2021-05-20 18:27:58	dubbie	hahaha ohhh man im so bad at this... 45mins for a comma. >.<
2021-05-20 18:28:05	dubbie	thanks guys that's awesome. its working now
2021-05-20 18:28:44	dubbie	redsh: nedbat: petn-randall: amo: cheers
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2021-05-20 18:34:55	ComCat	IMPORTANT NOTICE: Hi Ops. Please update the topic to point to the new server (libera.chat). Thank you. Current situation: crown prince of korea and co-founder of MtGox (bitcoin exit-scam) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox#Bankruptcy;_stolen_bitcoin_(2014%E2%80%93ongoing) - has now full control over Freenode and has destaffed ALL the staffers you knew. The staffers have founded and
2021-05-20 18:35:00	ComCat	moved to Libera.chat. Sponsors of Freenode are beginning to pull out, it is unknown for how long the freenode will be stable. Most channels, projects and users are now migrating to Libera. Libera is a registered non-profit organization with mitigations against this disaster happening ever again. Leaked chats showing disgusting intents and former devs that have worked with Mr.Lee before says that he's disorganized, dishonest and that they wish to
2021-05-20 18:35:05	ComCat	never work with him again (he managed to scam freenode out of our hands and he lied to the staffers). All officiall freenode channels are now currently under complete censorship. https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/nirvana-log.txt  - https://paste.sr.ht/~ircwright/7e751d2162e4eb27cba25f6f8893c1f38930f7c4 - Please update your topic to point to the new server if you haven't done so already. This message is to inform the users about the
2021-05-20 18:35:12	ComCat	situation if the topic is set already. Spread this message too.
2021-05-20 18:35:40	SnoopJ	ComCat, that's not very polite, please see /topic, the ops of this channel are aware of the matter.
2021-05-20 18:36:24	Samian	is there a way to change the code in python in vscode as I'm debugging?
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2021-05-20 18:36:49	ChrisWarrick	How to kill IRC for good? By splitting off a new network for some weird internal reasons.
2021-05-20 18:36:59	Samian	I have a loop that generates frames in a video. in the loops i have variables like aa = 10. I want to set a break point and change aa to 9 and see how that changes the frames generated
2021-05-20 18:37:15	Samian	Can I do that in vscode?
2021-05-20 18:37:28	ChrisWarrick	Samian: you might be able to change the variables directly in the variables window
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2021-05-20 18:37:49	bancroft	can someone help me finish this png generator? https://bpa.st/SNQA I'm stuck on the level/dict of the png data chunk
2021-05-20 18:37:54	Samian	ChrisWarrick,  let me try!
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2021-05-20 18:39:05	Samian	ChrisWarrick,  it works!!
2021-05-20 18:39:06	Samian	yesss
2021-05-20 18:39:08	KirkMcDonald	bancroft: But, you're already using Pillow. It knows how to make PNGs already.
2021-05-20 18:39:08	Samian	thank you!!!!!
2021-05-20 18:39:21	ChrisWarrick	Samian: you're welcome
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2021-05-20 18:39:35	bancroft	KirkMcDonald: but what if I wanted to create a png with a size of zero?
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2021-05-20 18:40:15	bancroft	or negative numbers
2021-05-20 18:40:24	bancroft	really curious what would happen
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2021-05-20 18:40:43	caveman	hi - what's the easiest way to do ipc?  its very simple.  i got a process that runs, and waits for commands.  then clients will give it commands.  so many ways to do it, but i'm confused which one is the most pythonic way, with standard python libraries.
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2021-05-20 18:43:29	Samian	I wish I could modify code as I debug in vscode
2021-05-20 18:43:32	Samian	is that possible?
2021-05-20 18:43:45	Samian	in visual studio I can do that for c sharp
2021-05-20 18:44:10	dubbie	irc will die when irc2 comes out... one day
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2021-05-20 18:45:14	duso	good morning all, another beautiful day of learning python =)
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2021-05-20 18:47:56	jbeez	SnoopJ: fixed it in a hacky way, no matter how i try setting/exporting my PYTHONHOME it doesn't seem to respect it, but I was able to add a ln -s command to link to a python27.zip file to the directory the python binary is and that works
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2021-05-20 18:49:26	SnoopJ	Samian, no, when you're executing code, the source is long in the dust: it's already been through the compiler.
2021-05-20 18:50:09	bancroft	duso yes it is
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2021-05-20 18:51:29	Numero-6	How can i remove  /?my_data= for show only the data in the server with print('DATA is:', unquote_plus(self.path))
2021-05-20 18:53:24	Numero-6	can i compine split and unquote_plus function ?
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2021-05-20 18:53:53	Numero-6	compile*
2021-05-20 18:54:39	henistein	I am trying some example with pattern matching in 3.10, why this won't work? https://bpa.st/55ZQ
2021-05-20 18:54:59	henistein	and how can I fix it?
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2021-05-20 18:57:01	bjs	henistein: maybe you mean str() and int()
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2021-05-20 18:57:08	bjs	or is it str(_) i forget
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2021-05-20 18:58:35	henistein	🤦 thanks...
2021-05-20 18:58:55	caveman	are you guys going to libera.chat too?  or already moved?
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2021-05-20 18:59:07	bjs	caveman: see the /topic  "Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer."
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2021-05-20 18:59:55	bjs	caveman: the channel exists on the other network, so feel free to join it.  But this one is currently still the "official" one
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2021-05-20 19:10:05	chwba	hello
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2021-05-20 19:18:21	duso	hello
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2021-05-20 19:28:11	duszek	can't fix a problem
2021-05-20 19:28:12	duszek	https://bpa.st/MFSQ
2021-05-20 19:28:34	duszek	imagenr should be 199
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2021-05-20 19:33:32	duso	I am currently trying to get my head around recursion and working on some exercises. https://bpa.st/Y6MA
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2021-05-20 19:50:48	nedbat	duso: do you need help?
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2021-05-20 20:04:44	caveman	what's the simplest way to do very basic ipc with standard python's modules?
2021-05-20 20:05:57	bancroft	can someone explain to me why zlib decompress gives less data then the original input? https://bpa.st/X6EQ
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2021-05-20 20:09:55	nedbat	bancroft: i'm not sure what that code is showing
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2021-05-20 20:11:31	bancroft	nedbat: what that function returns -> decompressed is b"\x00\xff\x00\x00"
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2021-05-20 20:11:47	bancroft	I have no idea why
2021-05-20 20:12:09	nedbat	bancroft: idk anything about zlib, but it's not impossible that decompress would be smaller, if the compression involves some overhead, and the data is small enough to not overcome the added overhead.
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2021-05-20 20:15:24	nedbat	bancroft: in fact, if the compression is lossless, then for most data to get smaller, some data must get larger.
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2021-05-20 20:21:34	tm007	What you guys working on?
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2021-05-20 20:28:16	sartan	implementing bugs
2021-05-20 20:29:01	CodeMouse92	^^^
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2021-05-20 20:30:03	cluelessperson_	writing bugs is my pasttime
2021-05-20 20:30:21	meejah	s/passtime/passion/
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2021-05-20 20:53:48	tm007	Nice bug
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2021-05-20 21:26:37	Spanska	Is there a very simple way to do this? I have a strings like '00X1X000X' where the X'es change place and I would like to remplace them with another string like '001' where each character would replace an 'X' ?
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2021-05-20 21:28:51	kline	Spanska, "000{}000".format("111") ?
2021-05-20 21:29:31	kline	you might find string.format() and the documentation on f-strings (f"foobar") to be useful
2021-05-20 21:29:47	kline	oh, this isnt libera :(
2021-05-20 21:29:59	Spanska	I thought about f-string but I couldn't figure how I could use them to do this
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2021-05-20 21:30:21	Spanska	The number of X'es change, it isn't always 3 either
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2021-05-20 21:32:53	KirkMcDonald	Spanska: re.sub() can take a function, which permits all manner of trickery. https://bpa.st/25IQ
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2021-05-20 21:35:55	Spanska	Thanks KirkMcDonald!
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2021-05-20 21:36:00	Spanska	Thanks kline
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2021-05-20 23:50:20	mihael	How do I flush a file write so I can read it from the same open(file) context?
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2021-05-20 23:51:06	sartan	file.flush(); file.seek(0)
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2021-05-20 23:59:46	mihael	sartan: thanks, file.flush() was what I needed
2021-05-21 00:00:21	mihael	I have two files with a list of somethings(routes). What utility/library can I use to like determine which items were removed and added?
2021-05-21 00:00:40	sartan	difflib is really nice for stuff like this
2021-05-21 00:00:49	sartan	otherwise you can load the contents and do set comparison
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2021-05-21 00:01:51	mihael	sartan: I'm trying out difflib.unified_diff but it seems to be comparing line by line. I can see the item on both files although they are in different lines
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2021-05-21 00:02:15	sartan	is the output deterministically sorted?
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2021-05-21 00:30:10	sartan	actually i am thinking that difflib may not be a good choice for this
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2021-05-21 00:33:38	mihael	sartan: what do you suggest to use?
2021-05-21 00:33:55	mihael	It's a file with 10k of lines
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2021-05-21 00:39:43	noyb	mihael: You can also use a the context manager which will flush/close the file when you're done:  >>> with open(file, 'r') as f:
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2021-05-21 00:41:33	noyb	mihael: The 'r' can be a different letter, depending upon what you're doing with the file.  For example, 'w' for write
2021-05-21 00:43:05	sartan	set(file.readlines())
2021-05-21 00:43:11	sartan	10k isn't a lot
2021-05-21 00:44:18	sartan	i dont think he has a problem with that part, he wants to read and write off the same file descriptor
2021-05-21 00:44:36	KirkMcDonald	set(f) is adequate.
2021-05-21 00:45:10	sartan	that doesn't seem right, f is a descriptor
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2021-05-21 00:45:54	KirkMcDonald	Iterating over a file yields its lines.
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2021-05-21 00:49:55	SnoopJ	(in text mode, which is usually what you'll have)
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2021-05-21 00:50:07	SnoopJ	or hm, it does that in bytes mode too doesn't it
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2021-05-21 00:51:01	SnoopJ	yes, it does. nvm me
2021-05-21 00:51:19	sartan	I've never known this
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2021-05-21 01:04:39	mihael	sartan: so convert both two set and find difference
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2021-05-21 01:09:35	mihael	okay, but how do I determine if it was removed or added?
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2021-05-21 01:10:08	bookworm	by the order of the subtraction
2021-05-21 01:10:19	bookworm	a - b is stuff only on a
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2021-05-21 01:10:36	bookworm	b -a is stuff only in b
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2021-05-21 01:11:15	mihael	ah, yeah, I just figured that one out, stupid me. Thanks guys
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2021-05-21 01:23:27	SnoopJ	if they're both sets, `a.difference(b)` has the same behavior but might be easier to remember for some
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2021-05-21 01:25:32	sartan	i dont like the .union .difference etc, I find i always mentally stumble 'is that the difference from a to b? or the other way around??'   missing = a - b in my head is really easy to remember
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2021-05-21 01:27:02	sartan	imo, bitwise operators already describe exactly what is happening without some other method name on a set()
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2021-05-21 01:27:38	bookworm	-/+ aren't bitwise ops are they?
2021-05-21 01:28:10	sartan	set(a) ^ set(b) is bitwise
2021-05-21 01:28:16	bookworm	yes
2021-05-21 01:28:26	bookworm	but that only 2 out of 4 ops
2021-05-21 01:28:30	bookworm	that's*
2021-05-21 01:28:37	sartan	I think this is a pervasion of conversation lol
2021-05-21 01:29:28	SnoopJ	-/+ are not bitwise, no
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2021-05-21 01:30:12	sartan	'operators'? (but we're not using operator module) - Boolean functions? (what does that mean?) 'python symbols?' what? I just prefer using the natural, bitwise operators to the set method names.
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2021-05-21 01:31:38	SnoopJ	the binary bitwise operators are defined here in the language guide: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#binary-bitwise-operations and the binary arithmetic operators are defined here: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#binary-arithmetic-operations
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2021-05-21 01:32:30	bookworm	there we go
2021-05-21 01:32:41	sartan	and what term would you use to combine them both in one statement? I don't even understand why this is a discussion
2021-05-21 01:32:48	sartan	I said exactly what I meant and you knew exactly what I meant
2021-05-21 01:32:50	SnoopJ	"operators"
2021-05-21 01:33:02	SnoopJ	maybe binary operators if we care to distinguish them from the unary ones
2021-05-21 01:33:06	bookworm	we know what you meant sure, it's incorrect all the same
2021-05-21 01:33:18	sartan	it's not though! I _specifically_ prefer bitwise operators to the set method names
2021-05-21 01:33:38	sartan	yes, there are other operators, but i'll happily use set.add() set.update()
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2021-05-21 01:33:54	SnoopJ	sartan, what bitwise operator would you use to replace set.difference()?
2021-05-21 01:34:02	sartan	what's the point
2021-05-21 01:34:06	SnoopJ	Can you answer my question?
2021-05-21 01:34:10	sartan	what's the point
2021-05-21 01:34:25	SnoopJ	I would use -, but that isn't a bitwise operator. I was addressing that question which was asked.
2021-05-21 01:34:33	bookworm	the point is, if you use fancy language at least use it in the correct way so that new people can learn
2021-05-21 01:34:57	SnoopJ	the distinction is pretty meaningless since you can define these to do whatever you want on your own types
2021-05-21 01:35:02	sartan	we are clearly not even on the same wavelength
2021-05-21 01:35:23	SnoopJ	sartan, if you don't like the wordy ones, they're not obligatory
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2021-05-21 01:46:37	Jonno_FTW	anyone in?
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2021-05-21 01:56:05	acresearch	people, i have a text file that i open in open3d, is there a way to instead of importing the file, generate a string with the info and make it look like a file?   bacisally to generate and import an object that is like a file from memory rather the the desktop?
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2021-05-21 02:00:20	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: io.StringIO is what you want
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2021-05-21 02:00:31	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: ok let me try it
2021-05-21 02:00:51	Jonno_FTW	don't forget to call seek(0) after you've written to it
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2021-05-21 02:04:34	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: it is not working, i am not sure if i am doing it right
2021-05-21 02:04:43	Jonno_FTW	gonna need to see some code then
2021-05-21 02:04:50	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: ok 1 moment
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2021-05-21 02:06:11	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: https://paste.debian.net/1198303/
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2021-05-21 02:07:07	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: is there an error message that goes with this? I've never used o3d. You can always just write to a temporary file
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2021-05-21 02:07:40	Jonno_FTW	read_point_cloud takes a file path, not a file like object
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2021-05-21 02:08:24	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: Invoked with: <_io.StringIO object at 0x7fab85f641f0>, 'xyzrgb'
2021-05-21 02:08:34	Jonno_FTW	I saw, I see why it doesn't work
2021-05-21 02:08:35	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: oh
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2021-05-21 02:09:46	acresearch	can i emmulate a file path?   the reason that i want to perform many parsing operations and writing and deleting files will slow it down,   also i don't think it is programatically right
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2021-05-21 02:11:56	Jonno_FTW	try with tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile('w') as my_file: my_file.write('''some lines here'''); my_file.flush(); o3d.io.read_point_cloud(my_file.name, 'xyzrgb')
2021-05-21 02:12:00	Jonno_FTW	or something
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2021-05-21 02:13:21	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: ^
2021-05-21 02:13:41	Jonno_FTW	also, depending on how big your files are, saving/writing to files is not going to be that bad
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2021-05-21 02:19:10	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: its not about big files, its about the operations, i just want to be able to program better
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2021-05-21 02:22:40	Sunny93	Hey guys, need some help on multi-thread/multi-process. I've been thinking whether I should make my python program into multi-thread or multi-process to speed up. But I have some pre-quesitons that need to make clear.
2021-05-21 02:23:40	Sunny93	I've read some posts online and these 2 comments are what I currently feel sensiable right now.
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2021-05-21 02:23:53	Sunny93	https://zncreallysucks.site/uploads/52d976fddee6f3bd/image.png
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2021-05-21 02:24:09	Sunny93	Source: https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/97615/what-can-multiple-threads-do-that-a-single-thread-cannot
2021-05-21 02:24:33	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: it entirely depends on your problem as to what is appropriate
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2021-05-21 02:25:04	Sunny93	I know
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2021-05-21 02:25:57	Sunny93	So if I run a program without calling those mutli thread API, does it mean the program will only run on one of those multi cores?
2021-05-21 02:25:58	kosh	Sunny93, what kind of work does your program do?
2021-05-21 02:26:17	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: this sounds like premature optimisation, when reading/writing lots of files gets slow you can look at improving it. If you're doing a lot you can use in memory storage (i think the OS does this to a degree anyway), and no you cannot pass a file-like object since read_point_cloud in python just passes it through to the c++ implementation.
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2021-05-21 02:26:41	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: if you python will only run a single thread by default
2021-05-21 02:26:48	BrenBarn	acresearch: Possibly you can do it by creating a PointCloud without using the io functions: http://www.open3d.org/docs/release/tutorial/geometry/working_with_numpy.html
2021-05-21 02:26:50	kosh	Sunny93, in general multithreading won't make python run faster
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2021-05-21 02:27:14	Sunny93	Because the GIL?
2021-05-21 02:27:16	acresearch	BrenBarn:  ok let me read
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2021-05-21 02:27:17	kosh	Sunny93, however you can use numpy, numba, scipy to do a lot of the heavy lifting and they have internal parallel parts
2021-05-21 02:27:20	kosh	Sunny93, yes
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2021-05-21 02:29:20	kosh	Sunny93, if you have numeric code also use conda and not the normal pip python packages
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2021-05-21 02:29:36	kosh	Sunny93, conda links numpy and other stuff to high speed BLAS libraries which make a HUGE difference
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2021-05-21 02:31:04	Sunny93	Is each core of the processor equal in status? I mean, will there be a condition that the OS distritue works/programs on a speicifc core the first?
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2021-05-21 02:31:58	Sunny93	e.g. 4 cores of my laptop, does the OS distritue the work evenly in each core?
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2021-05-21 02:31:59	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: that's entirely up to the OS
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2021-05-21 02:32:13	Sunny93	Or there's a master core sort of thing
2021-05-21 02:32:27	Jonno_FTW	you'll need to research how your OS distributes the work load
2021-05-21 02:32:33	Jonno_FTW	I thihnk you can set a CPU affinity
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2021-05-21 02:33:28	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/taskset.1.html#:~:text=CPU%20affinity%20is%20a%20scheduler,run%20on%20any%20other%20CPUs.&text=Therefore%2C%20forcing%20a%20specific%20CPU,useful%20only%20in%20certain%20applications.
2021-05-21 02:33:33	Sunny93	Well I use Linux, how does linux peform as for that?
2021-05-21 02:33:38	Sunny93	ok let me take a look
2021-05-21 02:33:51	Jonno_FTW	you'll need to read, it's not worth explaining here
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2021-05-21 02:34:29	Sunny93	ok
2021-05-21 02:34:48	Jonno_FTW	there's probably lots of caching details that improve performance in weird ways that I don't know about
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2021-05-21 02:35:12	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+linux+decide+what+cpu+to+run+a+process+on
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2021-05-21 02:36:04	Jonno_FTW	I remember having to implement a variety of process scheduling methods in my operating systems class in uni
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2021-05-21 02:36:46	Sunny93	Thank you for the link. Allow me to read some first.
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2021-05-21 02:37:55	Jonno_FTW	Sunny93: some light reading for you http://www.nastooh.com/teaching/Silberschatz_Operating_System_Concepts_10e_2018.pdf
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2021-05-21 02:48:24	kosh	Sunny93, in general most operating systems distribute the work more or less evenly, unless you have something like an apple M1 processor where some cores are faster than others
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2021-05-21 02:48:36	kosh	and then it makes no sense to make the split even
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2021-05-21 02:50:39	doev	good morning! And a simple question about 3f-strings. .... When I have a large text and I want to put it into a own file, what is best practice?
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2021-05-21 02:51:10	doev	maybe put the large string in an module?
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2021-05-21 02:58:20	mankur	Whats the use of large string?
2021-05-21 02:58:54	doev	mankur a template
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2021-05-21 03:00:49	mankur	Yeah I think define a constant for that and use that constant variable wherever needed
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2021-05-21 03:05:19	acresearch	BrenBarn:  ok i got it working with a numpy array,   but only xyz, is there a way to get xyzrgb?
2021-05-21 03:06:25	BrenBarn	not sure, look through the documentation for open3d
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2021-05-21 03:07:20	acresearch	BrenBarn:  i am looking through it, but i cant find what i am looking for
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2021-05-21 03:13:55	BrenBarn	looks like you might be able to do the same Vector3dVector thing with a separate vector of RGB data, like `pcd.colors = o3d.utility.Vector3dVector(rgb)`
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2021-05-21 03:18:56	tete_	how do you guys version and persist machine learning models? with git tagging and then putting it somewhere?
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2021-05-21 03:28:20	duso	I have this problem as part of my homework, and I am not sure what it is even asking me to do. https://bpa.st/VL2Q
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2021-05-21 03:30:18	duso	I have this problem as part of my homework, and I am not sure what it is even asking me to do. https://bpa.st/VL2Q
2021-05-21 03:30:36	duso	oops, sorry for the double =/
2021-05-21 03:30:44	supakeen	We read it the first time, the question seems pretty clear.
2021-05-21 03:30:51	supakeen	(in the homework)
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2021-05-21 03:32:03	IoannisJVM	Hello, i have 2 lists of objects and i need to map the id of each object from one list to the id of each object of the other list
2021-05-21 03:32:05	duso	unless you know the structure / depth of the nested lists, how would you be able to specify an index to retrieve a value from?
2021-05-21 03:32:13	IoannisJVM	what's the best data structure which i can use
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2021-05-21 03:33:05	KirkMcDonald	duso: You are given a list of indexes, yes?
2021-05-21 03:33:28	supakeen	duso: You get a valid list of indexes, see the last sentence of your homework.
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2021-05-21 03:34:10	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: It depends on what you mean by "map." But I imagine zip() would be involved, and perhaps a dict.
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2021-05-21 03:35:43	duso	ok, I think I am getting it. idea for a  start. thanks
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2021-05-21 03:37:34	IoannisJVM	KirkMcDonald i should return a dict like this { object.id :{ otherobjc.id : units }}
2021-05-21 03:38:24	IoannisJVM	https://dpaste.org/dciG
2021-05-21 03:38:42	Sunny93	kosh thanks. Good to know that
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2021-05-21 03:38:54	IoannisJVM	this structure just gives me only one of the list items
2021-05-21 03:39:30	kosh	Sunny93, so what kind of problem do you have?
2021-05-21 03:39:30	cluelessperson_	duso, it's asking you to write a function that navigates to the nested position and return the value.
2021-05-21 03:39:46	cluelessperson_	that's as much a hint I can give without giving it away entirely.
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2021-05-21 03:40:20	cluelessperson_	IoannisJVM, data structure for what?
2021-05-21 03:40:58	Sunny93	Jonno_FTW I am reading the taskset manpage and ready for a try. What does the "CPUs" mean in the manpage? I only know "1 CPU with many cores"
2021-05-21 03:41:07	cluelessperson_	IoannisJVM, You'd use two dicts.
2021-05-21 03:41:07	Sunny93	kosh ok let me demostrate my problem.
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2021-05-21 03:41:41	cluelessperson_	IoannisJVM, one dictionary to track the mappings,  another dictionary to temporarily store references to known objects that aren't placed yet.
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2021-05-21 03:42:07	Sunny93	I wrote a python program. fetch data from a datasource (HBase), dump to csv, and then upload to another database cluster (impala, hive)
2021-05-21 03:42:47	IoannisJVM	cluelessperson_ hmm let me try to implement it first and i'll show you if i understood correctly your point
2021-05-21 03:42:50	Sunny93	So I was thinking should I make it multi-process or multi-thread to spped up.
2021-05-21 03:43:10	kosh	that seems like it would be purely IO bound
2021-05-21 03:43:25	cluelessperson_	IoannisJVM, so,   you could just factorially n*n-1 try every combination to see which match.
2021-05-21 03:43:41	kosh	if you had multiple connections to the db would it actually download faster?
2021-05-21 03:43:42	Sunny93	Yes. And I was asking myself, do concurrency really make a huge differences?
2021-05-21 03:44:15	cluelessperson_	IoannisJVM, or, like I explained, loop over them once, associating the mappings, or storing their reference for faster lookup later.   Then just loop over the leftovers and place them in the map now that you know everything.
2021-05-21 03:44:18	kosh	if you are reading from one db and writing to another db I don't see much that concurrency can do
2021-05-21 03:44:34	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, concurrency in what?
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2021-05-21 03:44:42	IoannisJVM	cluelessperson_ ok,i'll try it,thanks
2021-05-21 03:44:52	kosh	python should generally not be a slow point for this unless you are doing some more complex processing before uploading to the other db
2021-05-21 03:45:05	Sunny93	If one thread has already eats up all the network bandwith, I don't think make it into multi thread or process would help a lot.
2021-05-21 03:45:16	cluelessperson_	kosh, well if you're waiting for network IO/tcp traffic, multiple small parallel connections might be faster than serially waiting for single updates, depending.
2021-05-21 03:45:18	kosh	correct
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2021-05-21 03:45:28	cluelessperson_	although I imagine in a database you'd send in batch as well.
2021-05-21 03:45:43	kosh	cluelessperson_, it could be but you would need to profile the IO
2021-05-21 03:45:51	cluelessperson_	agreed
2021-05-21 03:46:06	Sunny93	cluelessperson_ e.g. 1GB data, split it to 5 processes, each 200MB, write to separate csv, merge into 1 csv and then upload
2021-05-21 03:46:35	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, it depends on what you mean by data and how you're processing it.
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2021-05-21 03:46:39	kosh	1GB of data is not much
2021-05-21 03:46:57	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, if you only send line by line, each line/packet requires time/io/confirmation.
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2021-05-21 03:47:16	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, if you batch, stream more data, a single process should do fine to saturate your network speed.
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2021-05-21 03:49:27	Sunny93	agreed
2021-05-21 03:49:47	Sunny93	what does "send in batch" mean?
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2021-05-21 03:50:30	kosh	instead of sending one item at a time you send many at a time
2021-05-21 03:50:35	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, So, you might think to   1. "request single line from data base" 2. "process"  3. "upload somewhere"  line by line.
2021-05-21 03:50:50	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, but that means each line requires it's own network overhead and confirmation.
2021-05-21 03:50:50	Sunny93	cluelessperson_ ah I see
2021-05-21 03:51:34	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, instead you might   1.  "prepare a transaction"   2. "load multiple lines into the transaction"  3. "batch send to database",  saving you network overhead.
2021-05-21 03:51:44	cluelessperson_	(which really adds up for many small operations)
2021-05-21 03:52:03	Sunny93	No. my current model is , receive GB of data once ---> dump to 1 csv ----> upload onces.
2021-05-21 03:52:13	cluelessperson_	sweet.
2021-05-21 03:52:15	Sunny93	I got it
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2021-05-21 03:52:56	kosh	probably not much that can speed that up then unless your db has some special mechanism for uploading large batches of data to use
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2021-05-21 03:53:03	kosh	and some of them do have that
2021-05-21 03:53:14	cluelessperson_	Sunny93, this also applies to disk operations.   Many disks can stream data much faster than fetching individual small files.
2021-05-21 03:53:28	kosh	computers are all about batching
2021-05-21 03:53:32	cluelessperson_	So if you intend to copy a disk, it's much faster to copy the block data directly, not the files. :P
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2021-05-21 03:54:00	cluelessperson_	This NVME that just came out does 7GBps, holy crap.
2021-05-21 03:54:01	cluelessperson_	I want.
2021-05-21 03:54:32	kosh	cluelessperson_, hard to prepare IO and get it there fast enough :)
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2021-05-21 04:00:18	acresearch	BrenBarn: is there a channel for open3d?   this xyzrgb issue using numpy i cannot resolve
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2021-05-21 04:05:24	duso	Got it =D. Such a great feeling when it just works
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2021-05-21 04:11:59	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: you can ask here, you'll need to post code
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2021-05-21 04:14:23	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: ok 1 moment
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2021-05-21 04:21:08	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: https://paste.debian.net/1198308/
2021-05-21 04:22:01	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: what's the error? you need to post both
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2021-05-21 04:22:32	Jonno_FTW	acresearch: also, numpy has random numbers built in
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2021-05-21 04:24:29	cluelessperson_	kosh, I will easily saturate that. :P
2021-05-21 04:24:36	cluelessperson_	750,000 Iops.
2021-05-21 04:24:37	cluelessperson_	damnnn
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2021-05-21 04:24:54	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: sorry   the error is: RuntimeError: Unable to cast Python instance to C++ type
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2021-05-21 04:25:05	acresearch	if you remove the RGB the script works fine
2021-05-21 04:25:05	Jonno_FTW	well there you go
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2021-05-21 04:25:42	acresearch	Jonno_FTW: no, my goal is to include the XYZ and the RGB in the array so i get voxels with colours
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2021-05-21 04:45:49	duso	https://bpa.st/MRBQ - I am stuck on this, may I get a hint please?
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2021-05-21 04:49:38	bjs	duso: it's hard to give a hint when there's no code,  because the only hint is "try write some code to do it" and it's hard to know what part you're stuck on.
2021-05-21 04:49:43	bjs	duso: what have you tried so far?
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2021-05-21 04:52:09	duso	https://bpa.st/46IQ
2021-05-21 04:52:28	duso	but just adding list didn't work
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2021-05-21 04:53:42	duso	I need to somehow put in a results = []; results.append(n//b) but when it recurses the results = [] would remove the previous recursion
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2021-05-21 04:55:05	duso	and I can't see how I can do base 16 either
2021-05-21 04:56:12	bjs	duso: okay, well,  so what did you want `return list(n)` to do?
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2021-05-21 04:57:33	duso	in the case they enter a number that is less than n//b
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2021-05-21 04:57:50	bjs	duso: okay,  but what did you want the phrase `list(n)` to give you?
2021-05-21 04:57:58	duso	should be n < b, typo
2021-05-21 04:58:06	acresearch	I have a math question ... an image of N=10614 number of pixels when the pixel_size=1 ... if i change the pixel_size=0.009 i get N=4727 ... how can i find out what pixel_size i need to get N=5000?
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2021-05-21 04:58:24	duso	I need to return the results as a list
2021-05-21 04:58:36	bjs	duso: what is "the results".  What *Exactly* did you want list(n) to do?
2021-05-21 04:58:38	bjs	n is a number right?
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2021-05-21 04:59:27	bjs	duso: did you want to make a list containing n?  Maybe you meant `return [n]` not `return list(n)`
2021-05-21 04:59:29	rendar	are local variables into a dictionary?
2021-05-21 04:59:36	duso	yes, but integers are not iterable, so should be 'n'
2021-05-21 04:59:46	bjs	duso: maybe you meant `return [n]` ?
2021-05-21 04:59:53	bjs	rendar: I'm not sure what you mean.
2021-05-21 05:00:05	bjs	rendar: what do you mean are they "into" a dictionary?
2021-05-21 05:00:23	duso	I think I just need a break and come back with a fresh head
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2021-05-21 05:00:27	rendar	bjs: that python uses internally a dictionary to bring them into "life"?
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2021-05-21 05:00:41	bjs	rendar: well internally Python is complicated, and for performance reasons it has lots of different ways
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2021-05-21 05:01:00	bjs	duso: I think you need to spend time learning more about lists. `list(n)` and `[n]` are very different.
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2021-05-21 05:01:26	bjs	duso: and `some_list + (n%b)` doesn't work since n%b is a number,  maybe you wanted `some_list + [n%b]`
2021-05-21 05:01:49	bjs	rendar: but yeah, if you don't look too hard it's like there's a dictionary inside Python for the locals
2021-05-21 05:01:54	bjs	rendar: print(locals())  for e.g.
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2021-05-21 05:06:40	rendar	bjs :thanks
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2021-05-21 05:08:24	rendar	interestingly '__name__' is the first key of locals(), now that in python keys are ordered
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2021-05-21 05:09:39	amogorkon	how is that interesting?
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2021-05-21 05:11:20	cluelessperson_	bjs, isn't   return [n] the same as  return list(n)   ?
2021-05-21 05:11:32	bjs	cluelessperson_: no, that's why I said they're not the same
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2021-05-21 05:11:57	cluelessperson_	oh, list makes a list out of an iterable.
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2021-05-21 05:12:02	cluelessperson_	list([5])
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2021-05-21 05:12:16	cluelessperson_	bjs, I figured list would do    list(*items)
2021-05-21 05:12:23	bjs	cluelessperson_: that is not what it does
2021-05-21 05:12:24	cluelessperson_	not list(iterable)  ;P
2021-05-21 05:12:28	cluelessperson_	yeah, I see now
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2021-05-21 05:13:26	cluelessperson_	I'm teaching GPG, IPV4, TLS to a bunch of gamers online that are interested in tech.
2021-05-21 05:13:29	cluelessperson_	:P
2021-05-21 05:13:43	amogorkon	ipv4?
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2021-05-21 05:13:55	amogorkon	why?
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2021-05-21 05:16:14	cluelessperson_	amogorkon, why not ipv4?
2021-05-21 05:16:23	amogorkon	why not ipv6?
2021-05-21 05:16:29	cluelessperson_	almost everyone's seen it, is aware of it
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2021-05-21 05:17:03	cluelessperson_	amogorkon, ipv6 is newer, slightly more complex to look at, and less familiar to most people.     I explain it as well, but not as immediately.
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2021-05-21 05:17:28	cluelessperson_	at least most people have seen 192.168.1.1 and such.
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2021-05-21 05:18:52	amogorkon	isn't it like teaching python2 instead of 3?
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2021-05-21 05:19:23	amogorkon	sure there is still ipv4 around, but ipv6 is the present and future
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2021-05-21 05:20:00	supakeen	The problem with that being that nigh everything is IPv4.
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2021-05-21 05:20:16	supakeen	You can suffice not knowing Python 2, you can't not knowing IPv4 :)
2021-05-21 05:20:26	rendar	e = NaN --- name 'NaN' is not defined | how can i set/check if a float number is NaN?
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2021-05-21 05:20:49	behelit	hi! i'm probably thinking about this backwards .. but i have have a structure like `a/b` in `b` i have `x.py` and `y.py`, from `x.py` i'm importing `y` as `from . import y`. if I run `python x.py` i get "ImportError: attempted relative import with no known parent package".
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2021-05-21 05:21:05	amogorkon	rendar, from math import isnan
2021-05-21 05:21:06	behelit	there are `__init__.py`-files in both `a` and `b`
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2021-05-21 05:21:21	supakeen	`float("NaN")`, `math.isnan(somefloat)`.
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2021-05-21 05:21:44	duso	https://bpa.st/7GMA - Think I am getting closer, recursion is doing my head in
2021-05-21 05:21:49	behelit	i just want to import the local version of `y`, regardless of whether i'm invoking it as a script or importing functionality from `x`.
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2021-05-21 05:22:18	bjs	duso: in `[dec2base(n//b, b)]` do you really want the outer brackets?
2021-05-21 05:22:19	rendar	amogorkon: i see thanks
2021-05-21 05:22:26	amogorkon	yw
2021-05-21 05:22:29	bjs	duso: It seems all the problems are just list operations, and not the recursion.
2021-05-21 05:22:42	bjs	behelit: that's difficult
2021-05-21 05:23:06	bjs	behelit: whether something is in a package or not is dependent not only on the directory structure, but also how the code was ran
2021-05-21 05:23:23	bjs	behelit: if you `python3 foo.py` then foo is not considered part of any package. It's why scripts *inside* packages just don't work
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2021-05-21 05:24:02	bjs	behelit: You want to put the script above the package and then import the top-level package,  or invoke Python with `python3 -m pkg.foo` so it knows that pkg/ is a package and to run pkg/foo.py
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2021-05-21 05:25:23	behelit	ah, ok. works as intended with -m switch.
2021-05-21 05:25:46	behelit	thanks
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2021-05-21 05:26:09	bjs	behelit: it's confusing because "packageness" depends on both the directory structure, _and_ how the code inside the package was ran (whether it was imported, or ran directly, or invoked with -m).
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2021-05-21 05:27:39	behelit	yeah, i can work around that with some documentation. will feel a bit constipated, but we should be ok :)
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2021-05-21 05:28:20	bjs	behelit: you can also put the script in the directory above the package, and then the script can just import the package
2021-05-21 05:28:40	bjs	behelit: and the package can define a `run_script` function (or often called "main") and the script can just call it.
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2021-05-21 05:36:42	behelit	ah, ok ... thanks! i can stick with forcing the user to run with -m from a specific path ... this is just to run doctests
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2021-05-21 05:38:35	bjs	behelit: I have been known to put `python -m` invokations inside a Makefile before,  so that all the paths line up properly
2021-05-21 05:38:49	bjs	not sure I recommend that,  but if you ensure it's ran from the correct directory it should all work
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2021-05-21 05:43:17	drogas	hi
2021-05-21 05:43:31	drogas	I don't quite understand this `  def __init__(self, config: dict,`
2021-05-21 05:43:42	drogas	specially config: dict
2021-05-21 05:43:56	nedbat	drogas: that's a type hint
2021-05-21 05:44:15	drogas	does it mean it `__init__` initalises a `config` only with type `dict`?
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2021-05-21 05:44:56	drogas	never seen `foo: bar` in a function looks weird
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2021-05-21 05:45:18	man_in_shack	it's a newish thing
2021-05-21 05:45:28	d42	it most likely doesn't really *do* anything
2021-05-21 05:45:31	man_in_shack	<drogas> does it mean it `__init__` initalises a `config` only with type `dict`?   << no, it's just a hint
2021-05-21 05:45:57	man_in_shack	it means that if you use the function, you SHOULD only pass it a dict (or dict-like)
2021-05-21 05:46:00	d42	mostly that the fellow developer who wrote it expects you to pass config as a dict or something close enough
2021-05-21 05:46:05	bjs	drogas: it's for documentation, like a comment or docstrings
2021-05-21 05:46:07	drogas	okay my next question is what is a hint? as in it is a hint for us developers/users or the machine? will it take ANY type or just dict?
2021-05-21 05:46:17	bjs	drogas: Python itself ignores them,  but tools and humans can read them and make use of them
2021-05-21 05:46:24	drogas	okay I see got it
2021-05-21 05:46:25	man_in_shack	type-hints can be parsed by validation tools to make sure things aren't intentially broken
2021-05-21 05:46:43	drogas	so it can be used in conjunction with some documentation library etc.
2021-05-21 05:46:55	bjs	drogas: the syntax is any expression,  but there are a set of types that people have decided on a meaning for (see https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/ ),  and tools like mypy can read them and use them to check you're doing it right
2021-05-21 05:47:26	bjs	drogas: yes,  documentation tools (like sphinx) can render them nicely in documentation and add links to the different types. Tools like mypy can read your code and check you're not passing a list when you say you want a dict, etc.
2021-05-21 05:47:47	drogas	bjs ah okay! yes they did mention sphinx so that must be it
2021-05-21 05:47:59	drogas	I understand it now thanks everyone
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2021-05-21 05:52:39	DPA	I wish python was statically typed, or that at least variables would have to be declared.
2021-05-21 05:52:39	DPA	The number of times I did a for name in xy: in python and overwrote a pre-existing variable named "name" and similar things, is uncountable...
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2021-05-21 05:53:28	man_in_shack	so use better variable names
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2021-05-21 05:54:22	iflema	and consider scope
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2021-05-21 05:57:19	supakeen	Some things could be easier with some scoping rules, some things even got changed for Python 3 so it's not like there's no precedent :)
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2021-05-21 05:57:27	supakeen	However the `name` in that for loop leaking is often used.
2021-05-21 05:58:30	DPA	It's not like python allows me block scopes, does it? No variable shadowing possible and only function scopes, right?
2021-05-21 05:58:30	DPA	Also, the variable name tends to be accurate, if I use name, it is a name of something. I do like verbose names, but I won't repeat myself when naming things. So if it's just a 2 line loop over some X names, I call it name.
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2021-05-21 05:58:47	supakeen	Correct.
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2021-05-21 06:11:37	pbnoxious	when using the logging module: do you pass around the log instance that you created at the main entry of your code? or do you just define it and afterwords only also import logging and use logging.log()?
2021-05-21 06:13:52	bjs	pbnoxious: most people create a logger at the top of each file and use that
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2021-05-21 06:14:44	bjs	pbnoxious: `logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)`  then use `logger.log()` in the code.
2021-05-21 06:15:13	pbnoxious	ah so in the global scope of each module, okay
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2021-05-21 06:17:01	pbnoxious	think I've been using it differently then, my logger is defined in the main() function of my code and I don't use fileconfig but rather just a simple input switch for the levels
2021-05-21 06:17:17	pbnoxious	but thanks for the answer, will reconsider that
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2021-05-21 06:23:02	acresearch	I have a math question ... an image of N=10614 number of pixels when the pixel_size=1 ... if i change the pixel_size=0.009 i get N=4727 ... how can i find out what pixel_size i need to get N=5000?
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2021-05-21 06:25:10	bjs	acresearch: this is #python, did you try ##math .  It's not even clear what your question is, why would changing the size of a pixel change how many pixels there are (and why would making the pixels smaller mean you have fewer pixels?)
2021-05-21 06:27:12	rendar	uhm, min() and max() applied to an array where there could be None or NaN, what is the best way?
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2021-05-21 06:27:42	arf`	rendar: filter() or comprehension?
2021-05-21 06:28:04	acresearch	bjs: well, i did, but i haven't received a response yet,    so this i am askign here because i am coding in python,     the idea is reducing the details of an image  hence combining pixels reduces their number
2021-05-21 06:28:28	bjs	acresearch: the lack of good reply probably is because the question is very unclear, it's not at all obvious how you got to the 4727 number or how it relates to pixels an sizes
2021-05-21 06:28:28	rendar	arf`: uhm, can you make an example?
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2021-05-21 06:28:58	acresearch	bjs: yeh i am trying to figure that out too, hence why i am asking for assistance
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2021-05-21 06:29:20	bjs	acresearch: it's hard to help if you can't explain why you get 4727 or what that number means
2021-05-21 06:29:31	bjs	acresearch: if I take 1000 pixels, and I make the pixels smaller, I still have 1000 pixels
2021-05-21 06:29:53	bjs	if I have a 1000 pixels and I make them smaller but cover the same area, I need *more* pixels.
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2021-05-21 06:31:05	bjs	rendar: when you say array do you mean list or numpy array?
2021-05-21 06:31:13	rendar	list
2021-05-21 06:31:26	rendar	but i wish to support numpy too
2021-05-21 06:31:35	acresearch	bjs: ok i tried simplifying the question but here is the full one with code, give me a minute to put it together
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2021-05-21 06:32:47	bjs	rendar: something like `min([x for x in the_list if x is not None and not math.isnan(x)])`  would work
2021-05-21 06:32:59	bjs	you can also drop the []
2021-05-21 06:33:18	rendar	oh, ok right, i was forgetting i can use 'if' inside comprehension, thanks
2021-05-21 06:33:44	rendar	bjs: the thing that bothers me with that approach is that for VERY big data sets, i must rebuild a second list, wasting memory
2021-05-21 06:33:57	bjs	rendar: well like I said, you can drop the [] if you're worried about that.
2021-05-21 06:34:15	rendar	bjs: ok, in such a case i'm gonna pass a generator to min(), right?
2021-05-21 06:34:19	bjs	yes
2021-05-21 06:34:52	rendar	what about getting both min/max with only one iteration on the data set? i think i should write my own traversing function for that
2021-05-21 06:35:12	bjs	rendar: writing a little function to do that is very simple
2021-05-21 06:35:23	rendar	yeah
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2021-05-21 06:40:25	acresearch	bjs: sorry it is taking to to make it work
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2021-05-21 07:09:06	duszek	can't fix a problem: https://bpa.st/MFSQ, imagenr var should be 199 instead of 200
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2021-05-21 07:10:34	gcbirzan	duszek: Why would it be? You're passing 199 to that function, it's lower than 200 and bigger than -1
2021-05-21 07:11:00	gcbirzan	duszek: It then adds 1 to it, so it's now 200
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2021-05-21 07:17:27	Death916_lap	if i have a class that runs the same logic but calls a different api based on which is choseen at runtime, i need to use the same functions but just call apple.close instead of pear.close() but .close() is basically the same for each. i feel like just using an if statement is sloppy. so basically id put if "input() == apple do apple.close if input == pear do pear.close, but ill need to do similar in several functions, what would best way
2021-05-21 07:17:27	Death916_lap	of doing this be? jus copying all the functions into separte classes and calling individually?
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2021-05-21 07:18:27	Yhg1s	Death916_lap: the usual way would be to have separate modules, or separate classes, or subclasses of a common class that change the attribute that your baseclass operates on. It's hard to tell which would be suitable in this case.
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2021-05-21 07:21:16	Death916_lap	i have them in separte modules but i have a class that will run exactly the same but in each function it will either call one or the other module, im trying to figure how to do it without having an if in every function
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2021-05-21 07:22:14	Death916_lap	i guess ill jus t add the class into each module and call it directly
2021-05-21 07:22:30	Yhg1s	Death916_lap: I'm afraid the vague description doesn't really help. You may be interested in a dict mapping from input to the module/class/instance to use? It's really hard to tell.
2021-05-21 07:22:44	Death916_lap	sorry id show code but im kinda propttyping rn so not much to show
2021-05-21 07:22:54	Death916_lap	that might work
2021-05-21 07:22:57	Death916_lap	the dict mapping
2021-05-21 07:23:08	Death916_lap	prototyping*
2021-05-21 07:23:14	Death916_lap	thanks anyways ill think some more
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2021-05-21 07:30:45	bxsx	is it anything wrong with wrapping ContextVar? something simple like this: https://bpa.st/WUOQ I'm wondering why contextvar doesn't provide class interface
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2021-05-21 07:36:48	acresearch	bjs: sorry,,, just got it working: https://paste.debian.net/1198324/
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2021-05-21 07:37:10	bjs	bxsx: what do you mean, "doesn't provide class interface" ?  what is the point of this class?
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2021-05-21 07:38:19	bxsx	bjs: I actually wondering why I cannot inherit from the ContextVar, I can only wrap it
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2021-05-21 07:39:02	arf`	I there a way to access a function name from its definition body?
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2021-05-21 07:39:31	Yhg1s	bxsx: let's say "because you shouldn't subclass classes that you dont' control, because it creates a tight coupling with the implementation of the class"
2021-05-21 07:39:42	Yhg1s	arf`: not without probing the call stack.
2021-05-21 07:39:48	Yhg1s	(which is inefficient and a bad idea.)
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2021-05-21 07:40:19	Cheaterman	arf`: def a(): print(a.__name__) works
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2021-05-21 07:42:12	fedorafan	freenode is taken over https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
2021-05-21 07:42:41	arf`	Sure, I misformulated (as `print("a") would be more obvious). I thought about a way to refer to a function from inside the same way than `self` for instance of a class :)
2021-05-21 07:42:49	Cheaterman	Fairly well known at this point, fedorafan. You should go in #freenode to talk about this, I think.
2021-05-21 07:43:09	fedorafan	so you accept it
2021-05-21 07:43:25	Cheaterman	arf`: Yeah, I sorta guessed hahaha - and so did Yhg1s, seeing their answer :-) I was just trying to rule out the obvious first
2021-05-21 07:43:32	arf`	I guess the Yhg1s address this point :)
2021-05-21 07:43:37	Cheaterman	exactly :-)
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2021-05-21 07:45:11	fedorafan	ok so stay here
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2021-05-21 07:45:33	cluelessperson_	I'm moving to libera in general.  (now back to python ontopic. :P )
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2021-05-21 07:45:50	bjs	fedorafan: see the /topic  "Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer."
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2021-05-21 07:46:20	fedorafan	i dont care do what you like to do
2021-05-21 07:46:28	fedorafan	stay whereever
2021-05-21 07:46:30	Cheaterman	Then why are you coming here to discuss it. Go away.
2021-05-21 07:46:32	fedorafan	wow
2021-05-21 07:46:40	supakeen	Be nice all :)
2021-05-21 07:46:47	fedorafan	you really think i think wow thats not good you have to go away no man i say its bad and now make your decision
2021-05-21 07:46:50	fedorafan	hahahaha
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2021-05-21 07:48:47	cluelessperson_	Cheaterman, Many people need help building trust to move, and I'm happy to offer trust by indicating my decision.
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2021-05-21 07:49:04	greyblue9	Cheaterman: it's pretty much taking over every channel now ;)
2021-05-21 07:49:27	cluelessperson_	A community is not where it sits, and many people I care about are also moving.  So it's important to inform others that people they care about might be moving.
2021-05-21 07:49:45	Cheaterman	greyblue9: yeah - but there's more constructive ways to discuss about it than just spamming that kind of stuff everywhere. but exactly as cluelessperson_ said, it's IMHO pretty important to know where people stand
2021-05-21 07:49:57	cluelessperson_	obviously on-topic conversation is always priority, just explaining why I'm discussing libera here.
2021-05-21 07:50:02	Cheaterman	Discussing it isn't the issue, it's how to discuss it that's a problem
2021-05-21 07:50:27	cluelessperson_	That's perfectly fair and I suppose I was too out of the blue.
2021-05-21 07:50:29	greyblue9	agreed
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2021-05-21 07:51:02	Cheaterman	Either way :-) I'm not yet on libera but certainly will join there soon, but I think I'll be on both networks for the foreseeable future, although it depends on which decisions the individual communities I'm a part of make
2021-05-21 07:51:14	Cheaterman	(including, very obviously, this one)
2021-05-21 07:51:28	bxsx	Yhg1s: fair enough ;) I am ok with wrapping it
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2021-05-21 07:54:30	greyblue9	we need six.moves for IRC
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2021-05-21 07:55:32	Cheaterman	hehehehehe
2021-05-21 07:55:34	Death916_lap	ha
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2021-05-21 08:00:56	greyblue9	heh
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2021-05-21 08:02:43	greyblue9	Death916_lap: what, you don't think mord abstraction can solve it? :p
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2021-05-21 08:33:56	IHasFinger	hi all, hope we are doing well. I am trying to create a csv file, add the following headers "length, width, height" and then add data to it.
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2021-05-21 08:35:33	IHasFinger	https://bpa.st/FIOQ however not getting it to work, please let me know what i have done wrong
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2021-05-21 08:39:51	IoannisJVM	i'm trying to return an object from a list but it returns it in this  format __main__.EMS object at 0x7f63cf2a96d0>
2021-05-21 08:39:59	IoannisJVM	and decode doesn't seem to apply
2021-05-21 08:40:16	IoannisJVM	is there an alternative?
2021-05-21 08:41:45	Yhg1s	IoannisJVM: that's just what the repr() of instances of a class called 'EMS' looks like. Is that not the kind of object you expected it to be?
2021-05-21 08:42:05	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: what doesn't work about it?
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2021-05-21 08:46:39	IoannisJVM	Yhg1s i wanted to return the properties of this object as well
2021-05-21 08:47:25	Yhg1s	IoannisJVM: they're still on the object.
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2021-05-21 08:52:31	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, hi, basically it does not (1) create the header and also (2) when the data is added, it just overwrites it. What I am looking to do is (1) create the file which I have done using open(filename, "w")  (2) create the header (3) add new row to the file has I am looping
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2021-05-21 08:53:38	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: okay, sounds like you missed out a lot of code in your paste. What you have will work for each of those steps, you just have to do step 1-2 once, and step 3 once for each row.
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2021-05-21 08:56:22	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, okay regardless without the loop if the code works in theory if i run the code multiple times, it should add a new row to my file right instead of overwriting each other right?
2021-05-21 08:56:43	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: not if you open a file like that, no. It replaces the old file.
2021-05-21 08:57:08	Yhg1s	you have to loop *inside* the 'with' block, after you create the DictWriter and you write the header.
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2021-05-21 08:59:45	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, I have like this https://bpa.st/ZMCA
2021-05-21 09:00:27	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: so for each 'info' in 'dt', you recreate the DictWriter. Don't do that. Do the loop *after* you create the DictWriter.
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2021-05-21 09:01:03	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: you can then write the header, once, after you create the DictWriter the first time, with writer.writeheader().
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2021-05-21 09:01:18	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, confused.com right now
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2021-05-21 09:01:37	IHasFinger	" Do the loop *after* you create the DictWriter." this is what is confusing
2021-05-21 09:01:48	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: I'm not sure how to put what I said differently. You're currently opening the file repeatedly, because it's inside the 'for' loop. Don't do it repeatedly. Open it once.
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2021-05-21 09:02:07	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: open the csv file, write the headers, then iterate over your dicts and write them to the writer.
2021-05-21 09:03:04	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, like this? https://bpa.st/DQ7Q
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2021-05-21 09:03:28	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: this still does 'writer = csv.DictWriter(...)' in the loop. Do that before the loop as well.
2021-05-21 09:03:43	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: only writer.writerow(myDict) should go inside the for loop.
2021-05-21 09:04:20	IHasFinger	ohh so the only thing that should  be in the loop is  writer.writerow(myDict)
2021-05-21 09:04:32	Yhg1s	IHasFinger: and whatever is necessary to create 'myDict', yes.
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2021-05-21 09:08:27	IHasFinger	Yhg1s, what if you want to create a file inside a loop and then write to it?
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2021-05-21 09:14:15	jmgb4	So is python going to be switching networks?
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2021-05-21 09:15:03	supakeen	It's up to the users, see the topic. Organisation registration is heavily backlogged on Libera (since they're super busy) so before that it's kinda moot to look at.
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2021-05-21 09:16:18	bxsx	Yhg1s: does it look good or I'm getting into troubles? :) https://bpa.st/LE6Q
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2021-05-21 09:17:46	jmgb4	I didnt know it was called libera, but that works
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2021-05-21 09:19:47	jmgb4	So my python question, is it posible to use a function to build a list and name that list based on a variable that you pass into it? so if I pass 'foo' starting as a string to my_funct(list_name), at the end I will have a list called foo with results from the function within it?
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2021-05-21 09:30:07	_RipFreenode_	https://youtu.be/q0cRlJs7218?t=281
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2021-05-21 09:33:20	supakeen	jmgb4, usually you'd do `list_name = func()`
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2021-05-21 09:33:52	jmgb4	supakeen oh hell, I think you are right. I was just over thinking it
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2021-05-21 09:46:55	duszek	what's wrong in this code? https://bpa.st/W7HQ
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2021-05-21 09:48:33	SnoopJ	duszek, 20/2 is 10.0, a float. Try `range(IMAGESIZE//2+1)`
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2021-05-21 09:49:23	duszek	SnoopJ, I just had figured it out
2021-05-21 09:50:24	jmgb4	supakeen If I go that route, python says its a string, not a list
2021-05-21 09:50:28	jmgb4	So my python question, is it posible to use a function to build a list and name that list based on a variable that you pass into it? so if I pass 'foo' starting as a string to my_funct(list_name), at the end I will have a list called foo with results from the function within it?
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2021-05-21 09:57:37	Yhg1s	jmgb4: let's say no: variable names should not be variable. Perhaps you want to use a dict, instead.
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2021-05-21 10:00:02	jmgb4	Not sure how a dict would work either Yhg1s
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2021-05-21 10:00:07	a1paca	jmgb4: how do you mean, name a list?
2021-05-21 10:00:19	Yhg1s	jmgb4: lists[list_name] = my_func(list_name)
2021-05-21 10:00:23	SnoopJ	jmgb4, dicts are a natural choice when you want a mapping between values, like ^
2021-05-21 10:00:50	SnoopJ	in this case a mapping between strings ("names") and lists
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2021-05-21 10:01:10	jmgb4	I dont understand SnoopJ
2021-05-21 10:01:25	SnoopJ	jmgb4, have you read https://nedbatchelder.com/text/names1.html before? Values don't have names
2021-05-21 10:01:55	SnoopJ	when we do something like `lst = [1,2,3]; a = lst; b = lst;`, we have just one list value, which is being referred to be 3 names.
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2021-05-21 10:02:22	SnoopJ	by* 3 names
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2021-05-21 10:03:06	jmgb4	a1paca Pretty much I want to generate lists based on a string passed to a function. I want to use a function and have it make a list... so if I pass it foo, bar, zim, I will have a list called foo, bar, zim.I wouldnt pass each and every one at the same time but call the functions at different points in the script
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2021-05-21 10:03:48	Yhg1s	jmgb4: as SnoopJ said, lists don't have names. Variables have names. Variable names can't be variable -- it doesn't make sense, how would you refer to them? -- but you can use a dict for that.
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2021-05-21 10:04:49	jmgb4	How would you print data from something like my_list if my_list = ['1']
2021-05-21 10:05:11	Yhg1s	jmgb4: what do you mean by "print data"? Are you looking for 'print(my_list)'?
2021-05-21 10:05:20	securethemews	print(my_list[0]) for the first item in the list
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2021-05-21 10:06:08	amogorkon	Yhg1s, "variable names should not be variable." - *should* ;D
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2021-05-21 10:07:09	a1paca	jmb4: as has been said before me, lists don't have names. Do you mean you want the contents of the list to be ['foo', 'bar', 'zim']?
2021-05-21 10:07:28	 *	SnoopJ tries to avoid the word "variable" altogether, it's too confusing in Python
2021-05-21 10:07:39	 *	amogorkon remembers some experiments with constructed variablenames
2021-05-21 10:07:47	amogorkon	identifiers*
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2021-05-21 10:08:16	amogorkon	SnoopJ, good call
2021-05-21 10:08:19	SnoopJ	jmgb4, the suggestion is to make: `make_lists("foo", "bar", "zim")` which would return `{"foo": foo_list, "bar": bar_list, "zim": zim_list}` and could be accessed like you would any dict.
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2021-05-21 10:08:30	SnoopJ	without getting into any of this really messy business about names
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2021-05-21 10:09:54	 *	a1paca is not sure what is really being asked for
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2021-05-21 10:10:26	SnoopJ	a1paca, if I understand right, they want to call a function and have names in the calling scope (re)defined
2021-05-21 10:10:33	a1paca	yikes
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2021-05-21 10:11:20	jmgb4	SnoopJ I think that makes sense
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2021-05-21 10:11:38	jmgb4	Yhg1s I was just trying to say, lists have to have a name or way to access it
2021-05-21 10:11:51	SnoopJ	technically, just the opposite!
2021-05-21 10:11:54	Yhg1s	jmgb4: that's not a property of the *list*, that's a property of your *program*.
2021-05-21 10:12:06	SnoopJ	values can exist with _no name at all_
2021-05-21 10:12:30	Yhg1s	jmgb4: SnoopJ gave you a link with a longer explanation. If you want the short answer "what you wan't isn't doable. change what you want."
2021-05-21 10:12:31	SnoopJ	although without a name, you can't really do anything interesting with them, and your interpreter probably knows this and will clean up that data
2021-05-21 10:12:33	jmgb4	SnoopJ Dont get me even more confused than I am right now
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2021-05-21 10:12:52	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: it's trivial without a name, just not without *some* way to refer to them.
2021-05-21 10:12:54	SnoopJ	jmgb4, the link really does have great info (in article or video format, as you prefer)
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2021-05-21 10:13:21	jmgb4	SnoopJ Yeah I am readingi t, just trying to keep up on conversations here and not leave questions unanswered
2021-05-21 10:13:29	amogorkon	SnoopJ, you could say foo = [1,2,3] has values 1,2,3 without names though?
2021-05-21 10:13:38	Kingsy	if I wanted to mock redis in a test is something like this viablae -> with mock.patch('redis.Redis', side_effect=self.mock_redis): <- where mock_redis() returns -> fakeredis.FakeStrictRedis() ?
2021-05-21 10:13:50	amogorkon	i guess that's what Yhg1s is refering to
2021-05-21 10:13:55	SnoopJ	amogorkon, nothing in that statement attaches names to those values, but we can't say those values don't have any names
2021-05-21 10:14:03	SnoopJ	Yhg1s, what is "it" there?
2021-05-21 10:14:12	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: referring to values without a name.
2021-05-21 10:14:46	a1paca	I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to modify the calling locals, this is Python after all, but it would be far from recommended in practice
2021-05-21 10:14:59	Yhg1s	a1paca: there isn't a way to do this, no.
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2021-05-21 10:15:05	amogorkon	1,2,3 would have no names, but still a way to refer to them
2021-05-21 10:15:07	Yhg1s	(locals are optimised, so you can't just mess with them.)
2021-05-21 10:15:20	SnoopJ	Yhg1s, you mean literals, or is there some "I'm holding a non-name reference to this object from Python" machinery at play? weakref, but not weak? 😅
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2021-05-21 10:15:46	Yhg1s	SnoopJ: no, I just mean things that aren't assigned to names.
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2021-05-21 10:15:50	amogorkon	you mean ilke a memoryleak? :p
2021-05-21 10:15:51	a1paca	Ygh1s: I see
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2021-05-21 10:15:53	amogorkon	like*
2021-05-21 10:16:45	SnoopJ	Yhg1s, OH, like something_interesting(42)? Sure :)
2021-05-21 10:16:55	amogorkon	i could think of two other scenarios
2021-05-21 10:16:55	 *	SnoopJ could have worded it better
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2021-05-21 10:17:20	amogorkon	lambdas as key
2021-05-21 10:17:53	amogorkon	and maybe inside closures
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2021-05-21 10:18:16	Kingsy	does mock.patch('redis.Redis', side_effect=self.mock_redis): even work on a class constructor rather than a function?
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2021-05-21 10:20:33	nedbat	jmgb4: can't you just do:  foo = make_list(...)    instead of:   make_list("foo", ....)
2021-05-21 10:20:48	jmgb4	 Ah this is nedbat stuff
2021-05-21 10:21:03	jmgb4	Oh hey speaking of the devil
2021-05-21 10:21:18	nedbat	jmgb4: hey :)
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2021-05-21 10:21:37	jmgb4	Watching a video from pycon 2015, you are mentioned in it
2021-05-21 10:21:45	SnoopJ	or `foo, bar, zim = make_list(...)` even
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2021-05-21 10:22:23	amogorkon	reminds me, i wanted to watch some pycon vids
2021-05-21 10:22:41	jmgb4	Need to pay attention to this
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2021-05-21 10:24:04	jmgb4	So you guys are saying values dont have names but this guy 3 minutes in is saying values have names lol
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2021-05-21 10:24:19	amogorkon	don't have to have names
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2021-05-21 10:24:30	jmgb4	pardon, dont have to have
2021-05-21 10:24:36	jmgb4	Ill be interested to finish this video
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2021-05-21 10:25:31	greyblue9	jmgb4: how would you access the variables created if the name depends on what string is passed to the function?
2021-05-21 10:26:08	amogorkon	telepathy!
2021-05-21 10:26:15	amogorkon	sry, just kidding ;)
2021-05-21 10:26:45	a1paca	Yghis: I looked up that it was possible to modify locals in Python 2, no longer in Python 3 because they changed how it works and it's not really a dict internally
2021-05-21 10:26:49	a1paca	TIL, thanks
2021-05-21 10:26:56	jmgb4	greyblue9 I would think python would change the properties of whatever the variable is from a string to a list? I dont know,
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2021-05-21 10:27:15	greyblue9	hehe, well there is sort of a way but it's super ugly
2021-05-21 10:28:11	amogorkon	change the properties of whatever the variable is from a string to a list.. o.O
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2021-05-21 10:28:33	jmgb4	I mean very few people know everything about python, even then, you dont know if you dont ask.
2021-05-21 10:29:07	jmgb4	After the video Im going to try nedbats suggestion
2021-05-21 10:29:12	SnoopJ	jmgb4, "this guy" is nedbat btw :)
2021-05-21 10:29:17	greyblue9	you're right, not knocking you for asking
2021-05-21 10:29:17	SnoopJ	if it's the video in that link
2021-05-21 10:29:48	jmgb4	SnoopJ Oh thats him? lol
2021-05-21 10:29:53	jmgb4	Heyyyy
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2021-05-21 10:30:44	greyblue9	you would be modifying globals though right? if you wanted to access outside of the function
2021-05-21 10:30:46	SnoopJ	it's kind of like how every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square: every name refers to a value, but not all values have names.
2021-05-21 10:31:04	jmgb4	have to have names?
2021-05-21 10:31:11	amogorkon	right
2021-05-21 10:31:13	jmgb4	Not all values (have to) have names?
2021-05-21 10:31:16	SnoopJ	correct
2021-05-21 10:31:19	jmgb4	Ok
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2021-05-21 10:31:35	amogorkon	they may have names, but they don't have to
2021-05-21 10:31:57	SnoopJ	the complete Python program `print(42)` makes use of two values: one of them is the print function, referred to by its name ("print"), and one of them the integer 42, referred to by a literal (which isn't a name)
2021-05-21 10:31:59	jmgb4	Im still totally lost by that but Ill get there
2021-05-21 10:32:11	SnoopJ	yea, finish that video and then ask us some clarifying questions
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2021-05-21 10:32:23	a1paca	I feel "having names" might be giving the impression that the name is a property of the value. It's not.
2021-05-21 10:32:30	nedbat	jmgb4: in "x = 2 + 2", the 2's don't have names, but the 4 does.
2021-05-21 10:32:31	Kingsy	dhmm I don't think this is it either. does anyone know how to mock a redis object up in a test?
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2021-05-21 10:32:46	greyblue9	i actually don't know o_f a way without 'global x' which would defeat the purpose i think
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2021-05-21 10:33:28	amogorkon	greyblue9, if you put literals in a container, you don't need to assign names to the literals, for instance, does that make sense?
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2021-05-21 10:33:52	greyblue9	yes, like a dict?
2021-05-21 10:33:55	amogorkon	sure
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2021-05-21 10:34:30	amogorkon	although that would imply a name if you have the literal as value
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2021-05-21 10:34:44	amogorkon	a dict isn't a good example for this
2021-05-21 10:34:45	SnoopJ	amogorkon, imply a name?
2021-05-21 10:35:06	greyblue9	index by id(value)  :p
2021-05-21 10:35:06	amogorkon	SnoopJ, key:value implies something akin a name
2021-05-21 10:35:14	SnoopJ	amogorkon, emphasis on "akin to." It isn't a name.
2021-05-21 10:35:19	amogorkon	i know that
2021-05-21 10:35:34	SnoopJ	Okay, just making sure because "imply a name" sounds like you're saying the opposite
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2021-05-21 10:36:42	amogorkon	SnoopJ, "may be a red herring" might be a better expression?
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2021-05-21 10:38:38	SnoopJ	amogorkon, it's a way to refer to a value that isn't a name, although it uses the same technique that CPython does to implement name lookup. That's getting pretty far into the weeds, though.
2021-05-21 10:40:06	greyblue9	might have to weed-whack our way to the big picture
2021-05-21 10:40:08	amogorkon	well, if you use x as a key, it still has no name
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2021-05-21 10:40:30	SnoopJ	right, `{"foo": 42}` does not involve any names
2021-05-21 10:40:44	SnoopJ	but it *does* provide the same functionality: a way to map a string to a value
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2021-05-21 10:41:20	 *	SnoopJ likes the "tag" mental model described in that discussion of names
2021-05-21 10:41:29	amogorkon	*nod*
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2021-05-21 10:42:14	greyblue9	if there's no way to look up the value at all i guess i'm missing what the point of having it would be
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2021-05-21 10:43:17	SnoopJ	in the suggested solution of "use a dict", you look up the values by indexing the dict with the string you're interested in
2021-05-21 10:43:27	amogorkon	if it's in a container, you usually have different ways to look it up
2021-05-21 10:43:34	amogorkon	you could iterate over the container, for instance
2021-05-21 10:43:42	greyblue9	ok, makes sense
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2021-05-21 10:44:57	greyblue9	so the solution is to use a container and just return that, or pass it in and modify it
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2021-05-21 10:45:39	amogorkon	right
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2021-05-21 10:46:10	greyblue9	works for me :p
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2021-05-21 10:52:25	Y0Gi	hi. in my projects, I use a "shim", 3-line `setup.py` to allow `pip install -e .` to work. is that still necessary these days? or can I require/expect a certain setuptools version or something and get rid of the file?
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2021-05-21 10:57:51	grym	Y0Gi: setup.cfg/517 projects still need it
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2021-05-21 11:01:49	Y0Gi	grym: thanks. which projects don't? is it possible to move everything to `pyproject.toml` already? I've seen at least one that has most of the stuff there, but couldn't find a good resource to explain it/back it up.
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2021-05-21 11:06:28	jmgb4	This change (rebinding and mutating) is blowing my mind lol
2021-05-21 11:06:31	briian	Hi, is there a way with pyyaml to dump a dict and maintain inline lists instead of the hyphen format on each line? I see setting default_flow_style to False, but that makes the whole thing dump basically minifyed when I just want a single key's lists to be inline
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2021-05-21 11:08:57	SnoopJ	Y0Gi, it's possible to have only a pyproject.toml, yes
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2021-05-21 11:11:52	SnoopJ	editable installs are a grey area I think because they aren't part of a standard
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2021-05-21 11:15:30	mefistofeles	SnoopJ: they still require a setup.py, right?
2021-05-21 11:15:53	SnoopJ	mefistofeles, for editable installs? I think so.
2021-05-21 11:16:16	SnoopJ	That's what Brett Cannon said in his "what the heck is pyproject.toml" blog post last year: https://snarky.ca/what-the-heck-is-pyproject-toml/
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2021-05-21 11:45:26	Y0Gi	SnoopJ, thanks
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2021-05-21 11:55:48	tete_	SnoopJ, i got it working btw. - i guess it was a combination of some wrong things like mixing .png and .jpg etc. - anyway, with the tensorflow example code it works. but i have another question which you might be able to answer. there are extra points when we use not only python but also e.g. c or R. do you have any idea what i could do in c or R to extend a classification problem?
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2021-05-21 11:56:08	tete_	maybe something with data augmentation in R or so
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2021-05-21 12:01:01	SnoopJ	tete_, C++ would serve you a LOT better than C here
2021-05-21 12:01:13	SnoopJ	but I'm not really sure what kind of extension you mean
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2021-05-21 12:02:02	Kingsy	what is the best way of debugging why mock.patch cant find a class attribute?
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2021-05-21 12:08:23	tete_	SnoopJ, ok then i will take a look what i could do in a simple way in c++. if possible we should load some other language in python, not that important what that code does but would be nice if it would do something useful and not only print a "hello world" ;)
2021-05-21 12:08:55	SnoopJ	tete_, "load some other language" is basically what you're doing when you use keras
2021-05-21 12:09:27	SnoopJ	you're driving C++ software from a Python driver's seat :)
2021-05-21 12:09:58	tete_	oh yeah, of course - i mean i should write some code that does something, python has some functionality to do so iirc
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2021-05-21 12:10:20	SnoopJ	if I knew what "something" you were interested in I might have more useful feedback
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2021-05-21 12:11:50	tete_	something is not defined yet ;)
2021-05-21 12:11:59	SnoopJ	indeed
2021-05-21 12:12:08	tete_	i mean... it would be enough to print a hello world i guess but would be nice if it would be something that has to do with my images
2021-05-21 12:12:20	tete_	maybe i create a c++ class that prints some statistics
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2021-05-21 12:12:38	tete_	image count, image sizes, or so
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2021-05-21 12:19:33	bonhoeffer	i'm setting up python on a new build -- what is best practice for version management (pyenv?)
2021-05-21 12:19:48	bonhoeffer	venv?
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2021-05-21 12:21:44	bonhoeffer	or virtualenv
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2021-05-21 12:23:13	euri10[m]	<bonhoeffer "i'm setting up python on a new b"> using asdf here, never went back
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2021-05-21 12:23:55	bonhoeffer	euri10[m], sorry i don't understand what asdf is, that is a version manager?
2021-05-21 12:24:03	amogorkon	what's the best way to implement a facade pattern with automatic method forwarding?
2021-05-21 12:24:13	euri10[m]	<bonhoeffer "euri10, sorry i don't understand"> yes, https://asdf-vm.com/#/
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2021-05-21 12:24:26	bonhoeffer	thanks
2021-05-21 12:24:46	euri10[m]	<bonhoeffer "thanks"> you can think of it as pyenv for python, nvm for node, etc etc all in one
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2021-05-21 12:25:11	bbear	bonhoeffer: pyenv allows you to handle several python version on your local computer
2021-05-21 12:25:27	bonhoeffer	asdf looks interesting
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2021-05-21 12:25:57	bbear	bonhoeffer: virtualenv just basically isolates your dependency in a special folder, but you still need a python interpreter
2021-05-21 12:26:09	demophobia	Could you please help me set my vscode terminal to python 3?
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2021-05-21 12:26:28	 *	amogorkon got an idea
2021-05-21 12:26:28	bonhoeffer	bbear, thanks
2021-05-21 12:27:08	bbear	did not know about asdf
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2021-05-21 12:34:34	bonhoeffer	so i should use asdf + virtualenv
2021-05-21 12:34:44	bonhoeffer	to isolate the project environment ?
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2021-05-21 12:34:58	pablo87	Is this a good place to ask for help? I'm trying to do something in pandas and I'm really stuck
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2021-05-21 12:35:28	Wulf	pablo87: guess it's ontopic.
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2021-05-21 12:38:12	SnoopJ	it is ontopic yep
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2021-05-21 12:39:14	pablo87	Okay, it's kind of hard to explain what I'm trying to do but I'll try my best lol
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2021-05-21 12:40:13	pablo87	So I have a DataFrame with about 6 columns and all of those columns either have values or are NaN's
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2021-05-21 12:40:44	duszek	can somebody see what's wrong in this C++ to Python translation?
2021-05-21 12:40:45	duszek	https://bpa.st/PW7Q
2021-05-21 12:40:55	pablo87	What I was first trying to achieve was duplicating each column that had more than one value that is not NaN and I was able to do that without much issue
2021-05-21 12:41:11	pablo87	But now I need to distribute each non nan value into thouse duplicated rows that I created
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2021-05-21 12:42:12	pablo87	and that's where I'm stuck at
2021-05-21 12:42:28	Wulf	duszek: English identifiers might help ;-)   Why do you think something's wrong?
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2021-05-21 12:42:57	duszek	Wulf: because no matter what I do, it always returns at else
2021-05-21 12:43:43	amogorkon	pablo87, maybe it's easier to explain if you came up with a minimal example and posted it on bpaste?
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2021-05-21 12:44:19	janislago	i dislike the language design principles of python and i'd like to know the rationale for them, anyone willing to chat?
2021-05-21 12:44:31	mefistofeles	janislago: sure
2021-05-21 12:44:32	amogorkon	janislago, import this
2021-05-21 12:44:38	amogorkon	^^
2021-05-21 12:44:48	janislago	oh yeah import was pretty good when i did use py
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2021-05-21 12:45:04	amogorkon	"import this" is the zen of python
2021-05-21 12:45:27	pablo87	amogorkon Thanks! I'll do that
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2021-05-21 12:45:31	janislago	certainly easier to understand in terms of package management than like, common lisp's quicklisp package manager
2021-05-21 12:45:40	janislago	or c includes lmao
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2021-05-21 12:46:07	janislago	hello finkata1!
2021-05-21 12:46:14	Wulf	duszek: I can't spot any mistake in the translation
2021-05-21 12:46:21	amogorkon	janislago, the zen of python are the design principles for python as general idea
2021-05-21 12:46:38	amogorkon	it's not about the import machinery
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2021-05-21 12:46:53	janislago	i get what you meant there, was just referencing that specifically
2021-05-21 12:47:04	amogorkon	good
2021-05-21 12:47:27	janislago	do you think python could be faster?
2021-05-21 12:47:46	SnoopJ	duszek, the `else` on Line 18 is erroneous, it changes the semantics
2021-05-21 12:47:47	amogorkon	sure, guido's plan is to work on performance
2021-05-21 12:47:47	Wulf	duszek: what's the type of obraz and its values?
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2021-05-21 12:48:00	SnoopJ	or hm, wait sorry no it doesn't
2021-05-21 12:48:02	Wulf	duszek: why are you using int()?
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2021-05-21 12:48:07	SnoopJ	because the other branches have returns >_>
2021-05-21 12:48:26	janislago	 thank you amogorkon
2021-05-21 12:48:30	janislago	im gonna head out for now
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2021-05-21 12:48:35	mefistofeles	lol
2021-05-21 12:48:37	amogorkon	...
2021-05-21 12:48:39	mefistofeles	that was fast
2021-05-21 12:48:49	amogorkon	always happy to help?
2021-05-21 12:48:50	mefistofeles	amogorkon: you scare them
2021-05-21 12:48:56	amogorkon	sorry ^^
2021-05-21 12:48:58	mefistofeles	haha
2021-05-21 12:49:00	Wulf	duszek: if obraz[i][j] is not an int but e.g. a str, then a comparison int != str will always be True
2021-05-21 12:49:01	duszek	translated to English: https://bpa.st/UINQ
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2021-05-21 12:51:02	madmallard	anybody know a fast way to screenshot a window in python, that preserves the correct DPI settings of the machine?
2021-05-21 12:51:09	madmallard	I was using win32gui and it just totally gave me inaccurate dimensions
2021-05-21 12:51:22	madmallard	it was fast, 10 ms, but just wrong dimensions
2021-05-21 12:51:31	madmallard	i used pyautogui.screenshot which works but it takes like 650ms
2021-05-21 12:51:35	madmallard	which is much too slow
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2021-05-21 12:54:46	xioton	Hey. What's a good alternative for PyAudio, because it doesn't seem to install on my machine.
2021-05-21 12:54:51	Wulf	duszek: did you read my questions above?
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2021-05-21 12:55:27	duszek	Wulf: yes
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2021-05-21 12:55:47	duszek	how do I get a vertical array row in Python?
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2021-05-21 12:57:08	Wulf	duszek: there's no such thing. You can iterate over all rows to create your column-array.
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2021-05-21 12:57:11	pablo87	Hello again, so I have a pandas dataframe that looks like this https://bpa.st/EIIQ
2021-05-21 12:57:18	xioton	duszek: numpy has a .vstack() funtion
2021-05-21 12:57:35	pablo87	And for each row that has a non False value I want to duplicate that row
2021-05-21 12:57:54	pablo87	and make a new column called 'value' which has one of the non false values
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2021-05-21 12:58:06	duszek	Wulf: i don't understand, I want something like this: https://bpa.st/2GBQ
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2021-05-21 12:58:27	pablo87	I managed to duplicate the rows but the part of distributing the non false values across the duplicated rows is where i'm stuck
2021-05-21 12:58:28	grym	duszek: well, those are 5 integers
2021-05-21 12:58:31	grym	duszek: not a 2-d array
2021-05-21 12:58:46	duszek	grym: that was just an example
2021-05-21 12:58:57	grym	duszek: well, it was not a useful one to demonstrate your point
2021-05-21 12:59:01	duszek	grym: i need code to read something like that
2021-05-21 12:59:06	duszek	grym: it's hard to explain
2021-05-21 12:59:27	duszek	i want a code to read a column instead of row from array
2021-05-21 12:59:32	Wulf	duszek: if you've got a list of lists or strings, you can't just say "give me the first column".
2021-05-21 12:59:48	duszek	Wulf: yes, it is a list of lists
2021-05-21 12:59:53	Wulf	duszek: you could do something like [row[0] for row in table]
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2021-05-21 13:05:50	euri10[m]	<bonhoeffer "to isolate the project environme"> usually I have all my python interpreter setup with asdf, each one has just poetry installed, then inside a project I `asdf local python x.y.z` to set the interpreter I want, then I `poetry install package1` and poetry manages the virtualenv, dependencies for me bonhoeffer (IRC)
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2021-05-21 13:08:56	amogorkon	https://bpa.st/M54A <- why am i getting this error?
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2021-05-21 13:09:08	amogorkon	with a = A(B())
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2021-05-21 13:10:13	amogorkon	(nvm the bad indentation of the methods __getattr__ and __setattr__)
2021-05-21 13:10:16	indigoblue	I'm running a python app that was developed w/wxPython inside a VM. It crashes when I run it normally, but when I run it using pdb it seems to execute just fine. Any ideas where I can look to see why it's segfaulting?
2021-05-21 13:10:26	bjs	amogorkon: also did you mean to call the async def?
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2021-05-21 13:10:33	bjs	__reload()
2021-05-21 13:10:37	SnoopJ	indigoblue, have you tried attaching gdb to it to see where the segfault comes from?
2021-05-21 13:10:52	amogorkon	bjs, oh, i need to do () and not just pass the function?
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2021-05-21 13:11:04	bjs	amogorkon: it wants a Future,  or a coroutine
2021-05-21 13:11:11	amogorkon	darn
2021-05-21 13:11:15	bjs	amogorkon: why darn?
2021-05-21 13:11:23	indigoblue	I tried earlier, but wasn't able to make sense of the data. I'll try it one more time and try and capture the output.
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2021-05-21 13:11:54	amogorkon	bjs, because that means i'm stupid ^^
2021-05-21 13:11:59	SnoopJ	indigoblue, if you share it here, we can help decipher the output. Executing the `bt` command (to show the backtrace) is the main thing you want to do after you hit the SIGSEGV
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2021-05-21 13:12:30	amogorkon	bjs, thanks
2021-05-21 13:13:02	amogorkon	i really should experiment more with asyncio these days..
2021-05-21 13:13:11	indigoblue	sorry for the necessary handholding. what was the command again? "gdb python3.7 pythonAppName.py"?
2021-05-21 13:13:35	bjs	amogorkon: the whole async def vs coroutine vs future vs task thing is a bit complicated,  and asyncio doesn't really make it simple to follow
2021-05-21 13:14:14	indigoblue	nvm, google is my friend
2021-05-21 13:14:17	indigoblue	found the command
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2021-05-21 13:16:30	Sunny93	Jonno_FTW How is this book (https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/) compared to the one you recommend eariler this day (http://www.nastooh.com/teaching/Silberschatz_Operating_System_Concepts_10e_2018.pdf) ?
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2021-05-21 13:16:57	Sunny93	Both are huge though.. 1200 pages vs 710 pages OMG
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2021-05-21 13:19:56	SnoopJ	I have seen glowing praise about the first one and it looked great when I poked around in it (for information about loading, I think)
2021-05-21 13:20:17	SnoopJ	or maybe it was virtual memory
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2021-05-21 13:21:49	indigoblue	!paste
2021-05-21 13:22:00	SnoopJ	https://bpaste.net/+python+pytb
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2021-05-21 13:23:06	indigoblue	SnoopJ: https://bpa.st/LA4Q
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2021-05-21 13:25:37	hyperknot	hi, is there a way to force every logger to be debug when starting python?
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2021-05-21 13:27:48	SnoopJ	indigoblue, whoa, that looks like it's coming from readline
2021-05-21 13:28:16	ChrisWarrick	hyperknot: if you set the root logger logging.getLogger('') to debug, well-behaved libraries will show their debug logs too
2021-05-21 13:29:22	hyperknot	logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)?
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2021-05-21 13:30:58	jmgb4	nedbat Was it you or SnoopJ that gave me the dictionary example? It ran off my history already =(
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2021-05-21 13:31:34	Sunny93	SnoopJ thanks I would probably go for the first one
2021-05-21 13:31:36	SnoopJ	jmgb4, if you have a question about it, just ask that question
2021-05-21 13:31:58	jmgb4	SnoopJ No questions yet I need to see it again and try to implement it, work through it to understand. I just lost the example
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2021-05-21 13:36:16	SnoopJ	jmgb4, I don't know what example you mean, but here's one that summarizes the earlier discussion around making a dict: https://bpaste.net/JFYQ
2021-05-21 13:36:36	indigoblue	SnoopJ: I wonder why it would fail on a builtin...
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2021-05-21 13:44:04	SnoopJ	indigoblue, the immediate cause of the failure is that `m` is a null pointer, which is definitely not a pointer to a module. As far as the rest of that trace, I legitimately dunno.
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2021-05-21 13:47:27	SnoopJ	#2 is inside of libedit which is confusing to me
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2021-05-21 13:48:41	SnoopJ	I guess it offers a way for the caller to register hooks
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2021-05-21 13:49:31	SnoopJ	indigoblue, does this happen for any interpreter startup, or is it coming from a particular import in psychopyApp.py?
2021-05-21 13:50:18	SnoopJ	wondering if something in psychopy messes around with the readline integration to cause this
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2021-05-21 13:52:45	bonhoeffer	just to be clear, to manage python with asdf, you still use venv for projects
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2021-05-21 13:55:44	SnoopJ	indigoblue, it seems like there is a history of weird interaction between libreadline and psychopy that might be responsible for the problem: https://github.com/psychopy/psychopy/issues/2662
2021-05-21 13:56:04	SnoopJ	lots of info on the issue linked to that one
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2021-05-21 14:03:10	bonhoeffer	 i installed python via asdf -- "Installed Python-3.9.2 to /home/tim/.asdf/installs/python/3.9.2) but python produces "No python executable found for python system"
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2021-05-21 14:14:10	bonhoeffer	i have a problem -- my vscode terminal loads minicodna
2021-05-21 14:15:01	bonhoeffer	what causes that to load?
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2021-05-21 14:16:49	ChrisWarrick	your vscode config, probably
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2021-05-21 14:16:59	bonhoeffer	thanks -- will look there
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2021-05-21 14:18:31	ChrisWarrick	vscode typically has you set a python to work with
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2021-05-21 14:24:43	fellipe	hi everyone, I've tried open('file.txt','a+') but it's not working for reading. how to open for appending and reading at same time?
2021-05-21 14:25:19	ChrisWarrick	r+ and seek to end?
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2021-05-21 14:27:02	fellipe	ChrisWarrick: I don't know how to seek to end...
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2021-05-21 14:27:50	gnstaxo	Hello there. What's your prefered graphql library?
2021-05-21 14:28:14	ChrisWarrick	fellipe: look into the seek method of file objects
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2021-05-21 14:28:45	SegFaultAX	Has this community already been reconstituted on libera.chat?
2021-05-21 14:28:59	-->	agrawalritesh (~agrawalri@103.123.86.13) has joined #python
2021-05-21 14:29:13	SegFaultAX	This seems to be the end of freenode.
2021-05-21 14:29:14	ChrisWarrick	SegFaultAX: see /topic
2021-05-21 14:29:35	ChrisWarrick	the end of freenode? 1514 users doesn’t seem like a dead channel
2021-05-21 14:29:52	SegFaultAX	I mean with respect to the hostile takeover by Andrew Lee.
2021-05-21 14:30:10	ChrisWarrick	Or the hostile launch of a new network?
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2021-05-21 14:30:38	SegFaultAX	Ok.
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2021-05-21 14:31:36	bonhoeffer	i have a python naming conflict -- can i reinstall all modules
2021-05-21 14:31:45	bonhoeffer	like remove everything in requirements.txt
2021-05-21 14:31:47	ChrisWarrick	bonhoeffer: naming conflict?
2021-05-21 14:32:05	ChrisWarrick	gnstaxo: (1) why graphql (2) what do you want to use it for?
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2021-05-21 14:37:03	gnstaxo	ChrisWarrick: I want to use Uniswap's API
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2021-05-21 14:37:28	gnstaxo	https://uniswap.org/docs/v2/API/entities/
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2021-05-21 14:37:45	gnstaxo	And I've never used a GraphQL db before
2021-05-21 14:37:55	gnstaxo	So I wanna try
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2021-05-21 14:40:08	ChrisWarrick	graphql is a very annoying thing
2021-05-21 14:40:22	NoImNotNineVolt	ChrisWarrick: you'd think that, until you've worked with arangodb
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2021-05-21 14:47:27	ChrisWarrick	NoImNotNineVolt: ugh, the hype for all those fancy modern document and graph things should end already
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2021-05-21 14:48:59	cluelessperson_	bongfrog, yes you can, although I forget the command
2021-05-21 14:49:08	cluelessperson_	bongfrog, it's also suitable to delete the venv and remake it. :)
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2021-05-21 14:54:38	ChrisWarrick	gnstaxo: (when working with graphql, it’s often most helpful to write the graphql document by hand, many places have a playground to help you with this, eg. uniswap has https://thegraph.com/explorer/subgraph/uniswap/uniswap-v2
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2021-05-21 14:56:01	ChrisWarrick	)
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2021-05-21 15:00:06	indigoblue	SnoopJ: thank you so much! I was able to confirm that the issue you linked is THE fix.
2021-05-21 15:00:41	indigoblue	I took the diff and added 'import readline' to __init__.py and now 3.1.5 is loading correctly.
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2021-05-21 15:01:12	indigoblue	Do you have a bitcoin wallet or some other wallet where I can throw you atleast a few bucks for some coffee?
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2021-05-21 15:02:15	betuxy	Hey guys, I have little experience in python so far and mostly want to learn it to use it to write scripts for linux administration, does anyone have a good Intro into this topic to get me started? :)
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2021-05-21 15:03:09	mefistofeles	betuxy: check automating the boring stuff with python on the web
2021-05-21 15:03:16	betuxy	usually i arrive at a point where bash just becomes bulky, also i want to learn to implement my own functions instead of only using gnu-tools
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2021-05-21 15:05:43	ChrisWarrick	betuxy: for administering servers at scale, perhaps ansible is what you want?
2021-05-21 15:08:07	betuxy	mefistofeles: thanks i'll look into that!
2021-05-21 15:09:43	betuxy	ChrisWarrick: yeah for bigger stuff i use ansible already, but i was looking to do some stuff with python to get further where bash just becomes a bit impractical (like piping so many commands)
2021-05-21 15:10:15	ChrisWarrick	you can use ansible for smaller stuff
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2021-05-21 15:10:40	ChrisWarrick	bash is great at running commands, if your things are mostly commands, then a python script will probably be messier
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2021-05-21 15:15:22	nacelle	python is great when you need to parse complex output from commands
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2021-05-21 15:15:36	nacelle	for most of the other stuff it can be a wash of effort vs complexity over just writing in bash imo
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2021-05-21 15:15:49	nacelle	(I write a lot of python that controls shell stuff)
2021-05-21 15:15:49	gnstaxo	ChrisWarrick: Thank you
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2021-05-21 15:18:19	doev	I like to send midi events with python. for that I need to have a callback with a good timing precision. Is it possible woth python?
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2021-05-21 15:26:02	SnoopJ	indigoblue, oh cool, is it a version of psychopy that predates that fix, then?
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2021-05-21 15:27:18	SnoopJ	ah, indeed it is.
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2021-05-21 15:30:41	indigoblue	yeah, 3.1.5 doesn't have the import readline fix.
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2021-05-21 15:31:05	indigoblue	SnoopJ: just out of curiosity, how did you find the issue on github? google search? something else?
2021-05-21 15:31:39	indigoblue	It's nice to be able to find help from folks like yourself who know where to look, but even better if I'm able to learn to do the same myself.
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2021-05-21 15:33:13	SnoopJ	indigoblue, well, the trace told me something was going wrong with code that was initializing libreadline, and I could see further up the stack trace that there were imports (but not what the imports were, hence my question about whether you'd isolated the offending import). I guessed from your program filename that psychopy was involved and searched "readline" in their issues
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2021-05-21 15:34:10	SnoopJ	I'd have been dead in the water if I hadn't been able to guess about psychopy heh
2021-05-21 15:34:50	SnoopJ	(I've only learned to diagnose faults like this in the last ~year, and it's still something I'm trying to improve at)
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2021-05-21 15:42:24	bonhoeffer	is there a way to totally restart requirements.txt (remove all modules)
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2021-05-21 15:42:45	bonhoeffer	ah pip freeze | xargs pip uninstall -y
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2021-05-21 15:43:35	grym	bonhoeffer: that won't do it
2021-05-21 15:43:48	bonhoeffer	grym, no?
2021-05-21 15:43:56	grym	bonhoeffer: pip removes X, not X-and-everything-X-installed-as-a-dependency
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2021-05-21 15:44:11	grym	bonhoeffer: the correct way to totally restart is to delete your virtual environment and recreate it
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2021-05-21 15:44:33	bonhoeffer	oh -- i'm using venv -- just rm the env?
2021-05-21 15:44:39	grym	yup!
2021-05-21 15:44:50	grym	then remake it
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2021-05-21 15:44:59	grym	it's actually kind of a good smoke test
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2021-05-21 15:45:12	grym	"can i delete my venv at will and recreate it in under 5 minutes"
2021-05-21 15:46:18	bonhoeffer	do i need to deactivate it first?
2021-05-21 15:47:09	grym	no, but you should restart your shell
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2021-05-21 15:58:09	philipp64_	Any reccos for a CBOR-LD implmentation?
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2021-05-21 16:03:35	demophobia	should i use virtual environment for python given vscode in linux?
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2021-05-21 16:05:50	grym	yes
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2021-05-21 16:06:12	bonhoeffer	is there a way to activate the virtualenv on cd into directory
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2021-05-21 16:08:24	grym	bonhoeffer: direnv.net
2021-05-21 16:08:30	grym	https://github.com/direnv/direnv/wiki/Python
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2021-05-21 16:08:57	oatmealraisin	Hey all, i'm having trouble installing a project that requires python 3.5 with pipenv
2021-05-21 16:09:07	oatmealraisin	seems it keeps using python3.9 libs
2021-05-21 16:09:14	oatmealraisin	any idea on how I can force python 3.5?
2021-05-21 16:09:19	oatmealraisin	pipenv specific
2021-05-21 16:09:28	grym	oatmealraisin: install pipenv as a 3.5 venv
2021-05-21 16:09:29	grym	?
2021-05-21 16:09:44	oatmealraisin	grym: good plan, i'll try that out
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2021-05-21 16:11:06	bonhoeffer	where should the .envrc go?
2021-05-21 16:11:11	bonhoeffer	~/ ?
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2021-05-21 16:11:30	jwhisnant	oatmealraisin: and probably use pyenv to provide your python version(s)
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2021-05-21 16:11:53	oatmealraisin	jwhisnant: haven't heard of pyenv, i'll also check that out
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2021-05-21 16:12:42	grym	bonhoeffer: in the directory you want direnv to operate on
2021-05-21 16:12:57	grym	bonhoeffer: so probably your project root
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2021-05-21 16:13:11	SnoopJ	pyenv is great for managing versions, yea. Library/include path management can be a little tricky to get right with it in my experience, but no moreso than any other context where you have multiple versions installed.
2021-05-21 16:13:17	amogorkon	if i imported a module with importlib.import_module, how do i cleanly reload it? i suspect invalidate_caches() would be an option, but i only want to do it for specific modules
2021-05-21 16:13:37	bonhoeffer	grym, thanks!
2021-05-21 16:14:04	amogorkon	https://docs.python.org/3/library/importlib.html#importlib.reload talks about some "cache" variable, but i don't get the snippet there
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2021-05-21 16:14:42	SnoopJ	amogorkon, how can you be sure that invalidating the cache is "clean" and leaving it alone isn't?
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2021-05-21 16:15:03	amogorkon	SnoopJ, let's assume i have a module consisting only of function definitions
2021-05-21 16:15:17	amogorkon	it would be clean to wipe all definitions and redefine them
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2021-05-21 16:15:40	SnoopJ	why do you need to wipe them? As that code describes, the definitions would be re-run.
2021-05-21 16:15:41	amogorkon	the way reload() works would not be clean
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2021-05-21 16:16:06	amogorkon	reload() doesn't delete now-undefined definitions
2021-05-21 16:16:07	bjs	amogorkon: because if you removed a function,  it would still be there?
2021-05-21 16:16:08	SnoopJ	The only potential problem I see there is old names lingering around (i.e. if someone is reloading a library after deleting a function from it)
2021-05-21 16:17:13	bjs	amogorkon: but yes,  you could use the cache trick on that page to keep a record of all the functions which were defined on the previous load of the module
2021-05-21 16:17:32	amogorkon	bjs, if i edit the file in the meantime and delete a function, then reload and try to call it from jupyter, it should give me an error
2021-05-21 16:17:54	amogorkon	or not?
2021-05-21 16:18:25	SnoopJ	we can't tell you what your intent is, but the latter is the behavior you get from reload()
2021-05-21 16:18:25	amogorkon	i think i'd prefer a clean error over ghosts
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2021-05-21 16:18:40	bjs	amogorkon: yes that is correct
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2021-05-21 16:18:54	amogorkon	"When a module is reloaded, its dictionary (containing the module’s global variables) is retained."
2021-05-21 16:19:06	amogorkon	"Redefinitions of names will override the old definitions, so this is generally not a problem. If the new version of a module does not define a name that was defined by the old version, the old definition remains."
2021-05-21 16:19:20	SnoopJ	that's what it says, yep
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2021-05-21 16:19:35	amogorkon	so, how do i get rid of old definitions?
2021-05-21 16:19:36	bjs	amogorkon: yes,  if you remove a function after reloading it will still be there
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2021-05-21 16:19:52	bjs	amogorkon: you can use the trick in the docs to keep track of what was there before
2021-05-21 16:19:55	bjs	(and e.g., remove them)
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2021-05-21 16:20:20	nedbat	amogorkon: can you tell us more about why you want to reload modules?
2021-05-21 16:20:37	amogorkon	bjs, oh, that snippet goes into the module?
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2021-05-21 16:20:49	SnoopJ	perhaps something like: `try: stale_names = set(cache).difference(locals()); for name in stale_names: del(name);; except NameError: cache = locals()`
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2021-05-21 16:20:56	amogorkon	nedbat, i'm working on use() ;)
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2021-05-21 16:21:06	nedbat	amogorkon: i don't know what that is
2021-05-21 16:21:16	bjs	amogorkon: I mean the trick is simple,  since the names are kept from the previous reload,  you can keep a name around that tells you what was defined before
2021-05-21 16:21:28	bjs	then you can simply remove them,  or work out the difference... or do whatever you wish
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2021-05-21 16:22:04	SnoopJ	oh I guess the try: block there needs to update the cache, heh. probably the exception handler can just be a `pass` and the cache is always set
2021-05-21 16:22:25	SnoopJ	reloading is a mess
2021-05-21 16:22:43	SnoopJ	especially if you want to indulge the temptation to guess (doing this is no guarantee those functions aren't still around)
2021-05-21 16:22:44	amogorkon	nedbat, an alternative way of importing stuff for jupyter usecases, mainly
2021-05-21 16:23:13	amogorkon	nedbat, with version-checks, auto-reload and import from github, etc
2021-05-21 16:23:25	nedbat	amogorkon: sounds interesting
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2021-05-21 16:23:37	amogorkon	WIP https://github.com/amogorkon/use/blob/main/src/use/use.py
2021-05-21 16:24:07	amogorkon	nedbat, you gave me part of the idea, maybe you remember ^^
2021-05-21 16:24:14	amogorkon	with the version
2021-05-21 16:24:21	nedbat	amogorkon: what does "self-documenting" mean here?
2021-05-21 16:24:24	nedbat	amogorkon: i did?
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2021-05-21 16:24:40	amogorkon	nedbat, when i was rambling about how imports should have some way of annotation
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2021-05-21 16:24:51	amogorkon	you proposed to have it as function
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2021-05-21 16:25:09	SnoopJ	I think the use-case (heh) is mainly notebooks and how to indicate what version of modules the author intended in a way that fits into .ipynb
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2021-05-21 16:38:33	amogorkon	SnoopJ, yeah, also anything without other explicit requirements like code on the web or presentations, i guess
2021-05-21 16:39:13	jwhisnant	SnoopJ: do you mean the use from use use-case? :)
2021-05-21 16:39:20	amogorkon	hrhr
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2021-05-21 16:40:12	amogorkon	btw, it already works with bpaste snippets, but i don't want to encourage bad coding practices ;p
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2021-05-21 17:04:14	greyblue9	amogorkon: interesting idea
2021-05-21 17:04:25	amogorkon	thanks
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2021-05-21 17:05:27	greyblue9	reminds a bit of what some packages can do in emacs lisp
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2021-05-21 17:06:42	amogorkon	it's not really ready for prime time yet, but it's getting there
2021-05-21 17:06:50	greyblue9	there's a "use-package" one that's pretty widely used
2021-05-21 17:07:13	greyblue9	no pun intended
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2021-05-21 17:08:00	grym	yeah, but i restart emacs when i reload packages, too
2021-05-21 17:08:05	amogorkon	i even found a "use" package for python, but it doesn't do much and hasn't been touched for a couple of years
2021-05-21 17:08:10	grym	namespace gets all ... squiffy
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2021-05-21 17:10:33	amogorkon	well, at various points i got annoyed in jupyter and after rambling about how things should be better i started working on this.. it was surprisingly easy to realize the main functionality
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2021-05-21 17:11:50	amogorkon	now i'm putting things together, one puzzle at a time
2021-05-21 17:13:26	greyblue9	yeah that last 20% is just painful, where an already-loaded module *doesn't* reload the module you're interested in
2021-05-21 17:13:45	greyblue9	it usually ends with me cursing and killing python
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2021-05-21 17:15:27	amo	damn
2021-05-21 17:15:31	bjs	greyblue9: amogorkon: there's always the old adage that 80% of the work takes 20% of the time
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2021-05-21 17:15:39	amogorkon	greyblue9, ohh, so you wished the slate was wiped clean, too?
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2021-05-21 17:15:47	amo	greyblue9, did you answer my question? i got kicked
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2021-05-21 17:16:31	amo	bjs, so true :)
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2021-05-21 17:16:54	greyblue9	amo: i don't think so, i saw something shiny and missed your question
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2021-05-21 17:17:02	bjs	amo: ... and the final 20% takes 80% of the time  ;)
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2021-05-21 17:17:30	greyblue9	bjs: ...and tears
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2021-05-21 17:17:54	amo	and bruises on the forehead with keyboard-layout
2021-05-21 17:17:56	bjs	it's easy to come up with a small function that does the main key thing,  but then making it work everywhere and do all the things and to be consistent and interoperate with other things is a large investment
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2021-05-21 17:19:26	amo	greyblue9, i was wondering if you had a scenario where you wished reload would behave in a specific way, say wipe the cache and remove dangling definitions?
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2021-05-21 17:20:18	bjs	amo: the problems with reloading are much deeper than just the surface-level module attributes
2021-05-21 17:20:19	greyblue9	amogorkon: that would definitely be icing, but tbh i don't know if that's one of the goals or just a separate topic
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2021-05-21 17:21:08	amo	greyblue9, i'm currently working on auto-reloading use() imports with surrogate modules
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2021-05-21 17:21:39	amo	ideally, i want the module to be reloaded whenever the file is changed, for now it just reloads every n seconds
2021-05-21 17:22:09	greyblue9	amo: well it would be amazing if you can get it to work then
2021-05-21 17:23:15	amo	it would probably work only 100% with function-only modules, but that's the thing i need in jupyter mainly anyway
2021-05-21 17:23:50	greyblue9	amo: to your point about dangling definitions - wondering how you find those
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2021-05-21 17:25:03	greyblue9	you said you would provide a layer between the real module and the site of use, i think
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2021-05-21 17:25:31	amo	well, i need the surrogate module anyway to return something
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2021-05-21 17:26:09	greyblue9	i see o.O
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2021-05-21 17:27:30	amo	dangling definitions.. i could wipe the cache and if anyone assigned functions manually is out of luck
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2021-05-21 17:27:49	amo	i could add decorators on import to keep track of assignments and raise some exception
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2021-05-21 17:28:23	amo	or i could try to track down definitions on the AST
2021-05-21 17:28:38	amo	but that's something i have little experience with
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2021-05-21 17:29:21	greyblue9	ttying to think how other modules get handles to these functions anyway.. maybe when they are passed in as a callback or as part of a class
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2021-05-21 17:31:18	greyblue9	well its just more complex the deeper one looks :p
2021-05-21 17:31:34	amo	no shit ^^
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2021-05-21 17:32:05	gcbirzan	that's what she said!
2021-05-21 17:32:19	amo	._.
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2021-05-21 17:33:42	greyblue9	gcbirzan: ur mom :p
2021-05-21 17:34:31	amo	wait a sec
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2021-05-21 17:35:05	amo	i could use the __getattr__ lookup in the surrogate module to see what the user needed
2021-05-21 17:35:13	amo	and then i could check the refcount?
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2021-05-21 17:35:27	amo	hmmm..
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2021-05-21 17:37:25	bonhoeffer	why do i get a different list from  /usr/bin/env /home/tim/code/plaid/env/bin/pip list vs "pip list" in my root directory?
2021-05-21 17:37:53	greyblue9	getting very interesting. if you wrap the callables (e.g. wuth decorators) that's a whole rabbit hole of its own.. there's a good blog post about it thiugh
2021-05-21 17:38:52	greyblue9	starts with this one: http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2014/01/how-you-implemented-your-python.html?m=1
2021-05-21 17:39:24	amo	i was thinking of enabling some decorator magic on use() for aspect oriented stuff anyway, so
2021-05-21 17:39:34	bonhoeffer	do i need to blow away my environment and regenerate from requirements.txt
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2021-05-21 17:40:05	amo	greyblue9, then you could decorate *everything* on import, just passing args :)
2021-05-21 17:40:09	greyblue9	rabbit hole -> minefield
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2021-05-21 17:40:34	greyblue9	amo: hehehe, now we're getting somewhere
2021-05-21 17:41:19	amo	most of the aspect-oriented stuff i've got figured out already elsewhere, but i haven't put it into use() yet
2021-05-21 17:42:10	greyblue9	you may have > 1MB of python code in your future :)
2021-05-21 17:42:16	amo	nah
2021-05-21 17:42:21	amo	it's easy
2021-05-21 17:43:07	amo	you could add timing/logging decorators for all functions imported via use() with no extra code
2021-05-21 17:43:57	amo	just need to find some time to figure out the details :p
2021-05-21 17:44:19	amo	you know 20/80
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2021-05-21 17:45:46	amo	i'm really looking forward to 3.10, i think match will simplify this code quite a bit
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2021-05-21 17:47:54	greyblue9	amo: running 3.10 but I haven't used that (or heard of it actually) yet
2021-05-21 17:48:20	amo	sorry, i mean switch/case
2021-05-21 17:48:26	amo	https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0622/
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2021-05-21 17:49:45	greyblue9	looks neat
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2021-05-21 17:49:53	amo	match/case it is
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2021-05-21 17:50:51	greyblue9	so you don't have to know even the names of attributes to "destructure" an object?
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2021-05-21 17:51:16	amo	don't ask me, i haven't experimented with python 3.10 yet
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2021-05-21 17:51:33	amo	just read a lot of good stuff about it
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2021-05-21 17:52:50	greyblue9	would appear so glancing at the PEP
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2021-05-21 17:53:14	greyblue9	actually, i lied
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2021-05-21 17:55:03	greyblue9	interesting though
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2021-05-21 17:58:03	greyblue9	amo: well please keep us posted on your project
2021-05-21 17:58:23	amo	sure
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2021-05-21 18:00:02	amo	greyblue9, whenever i come here with another seemingly crazy question, just assume it's for this ;)
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2021-05-21 18:00:37	david	amo: done :p
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2021-05-21 18:04:09	greyblue9	^ that was me saying "done", my client spazzed out btw
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2021-05-21 18:05:21	nowarning	hey, i'm trying to use backported contextvars with Python3.6 and it's not working for this simple example: https://bpa.st/353A   what is wrong here?
2021-05-21 18:05:22	amo	don't worry, your secret identify is safe with me
2021-05-21 18:05:29	securethemews	and me
2021-05-21 18:05:35	mefistofeles	same here
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2021-05-21 18:06:39	greyblue9	relieved
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2021-05-21 18:09:17	nowarning	without awaiting sleep, it's working correctly but then context hasn't been switched
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2021-05-21 18:11:11	amo	asyncio kicked my butt earlier, too
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2021-05-21 18:12:25	amo	could it be that your return var.get() doesn't work in async def for python3.6?
2021-05-21 18:12:39	amo	nowarning, what's the error?
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2021-05-21 18:13:25	amo	is there anything beside the AssertionError?
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2021-05-21 18:15:50	Numero-6	Hi all ! When i run a python server, that show me a line request, how can i change this line ?
2021-05-21 18:16:49	bjs	nowarning: https://pypi.org/project/contextvars/ says "Important: at this moment this package does not provide an asyncio event loop with PEP 567 support yet. Stay tuned for updates."  it makes it sound like it doesn't support asyncio
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2021-05-21 18:18:27	ranran8888	hi ask when i use concurrent.futures multi therd but my server its 1 cpu what happen ?
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2021-05-21 18:20:37	bjs	ranran8888: what do you mean "what happen"?
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2021-05-21 18:21:07	ranran8888	bjs for use multitherding i not need more from 1 cpu ?
2021-05-21 18:21:11	bjs	ranran8888: threads aren't CPUs,  concurrent.futures doesn't talk about cpus
2021-05-21 18:21:50	ranran8888	bjs its only like open 20 same time python progrres ?
2021-05-21 18:21:57	bjs	ranran8888: yes, threads aren't the same thing as CPUs, you can have many threads
2021-05-21 18:22:05	bjs	ranran8888: open 20 same time?  I'm not sure what you mean
2021-05-21 18:22:13	bjs	concurrent.futures is what handles the threads
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2021-05-21 18:24:01	ranran8888	bjs concurrent.futures when u write threads all thead its like new progrres run ?
2021-05-21 18:24:26	bjs	ranran8888: I can't parse a question out of that, I don't know what you're trying to ask.
2021-05-21 18:24:35	bjs	ranran8888: Can you try re-phrase the question?
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2021-05-21 18:25:31	ranran8888	i wont understend how it work i think before its use cpu , but its not u say show how its work what happen when i run thread ?
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2021-05-21 18:25:44	bjs	ranran8888: the OS is what runs threads
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2021-05-21 18:25:55	bjs	ranran8888: every now and again each CPU switches which thread is running.
2021-05-21 18:26:10	bjs	(well, the OS running on that CPU decides to switch the thread it is running)
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2021-05-21 18:27:28	ranran8888	bjs and if i run this on server 1 cpu and server 4 cpu it be more fast ?
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2021-05-21 18:27:41	bjs	ranran8888: well I don't know what "this" is,  so... maybe?
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2021-05-21 18:27:59	bjs	or maybe it'd be slower,  it can be very hard to tell, especially when I know nothing about what "this" is :)
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2021-05-21 18:29:01	ranran8888	bjs Sorry i talking about scraping websites
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2021-05-21 18:29:11	ranran8888	example
2021-05-21 18:29:27	amo	ranran8888, can you give us a code snippet on bpaste to illustrate what you're doing?
2021-05-21 18:29:38	bjs	ranran8888: well, that's still not a very detailed description.  You need to know a _lot_ about the program to understand how its performance changes with these things.
2021-05-21 18:29:47	bjs	ranran8888: it may go faster, it may not. It all depends.
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2021-05-21 18:30:33	bjs	remember that getting data from a website, most of the time is spent waiting for the website to reply and so it doesn't matter how many CPUs you have because you can't make the internet go faster
2021-05-21 18:30:39	ranran8888	amo I've already done it. Just want to analyze what I did. want know how far I can take it. :D
2021-05-21 18:30:40	bjs	... but what you do with the data when you get it, now that can make a difference.
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2021-05-21 18:32:28	ranran8888	bjs ok and one more ask how money thearding in same time its rist to server/data ?
2021-05-21 18:33:00	ranran8888	many*
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2021-05-21 18:33:14	ranran8888	it risk*
2021-05-21 18:33:21	bjs	ranran8888: can you re-type that sentence but without all the typos?
2021-05-21 18:33:23	bjs	it makes it hard to read.
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2021-05-21 18:34:49	ranran8888	bjs yes my english very bad sorry, i ask how many trheading in same time, its risk to run, to my server or to my data i scrap ?
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2021-05-21 18:35:01	ranran8888	like 20-50-100-200 theards :x
2021-05-21 18:35:21	bjs	ranran8888: "it depends",  on what else the server is doing, exactly what your program is doing, exactly what each thread is doing, how much free resources the server has, how long the threads live for
2021-05-21 18:35:29	bjs	ranran8888: it could be 20, it could be 20,000
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2021-05-21 18:35:57	greyblue9	bjs: sounds like the information superhighway just needs to be widened
2021-05-21 18:36:16	bjs	ranran8888: and this doesn't even begin to ask how many threads you can add that will actually make your program go faster -- like I said, you can't make the internet go faster by adding more threads or more CPUs
2021-05-21 18:36:28	bjs	ranran8888: and your internet is only so fast
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2021-05-21 18:38:43	ranran8888	bjs Thank you you have a lot of knowledge, I understand I will try to just test how much my server can handle before it just falls to study
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2021-05-21 18:43:20	amo	neat, autoreload works now :) just naively reloading every n seconds, but nevertheless
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2021-05-21 18:46:10	amo	transparently replaces the implementation behind the scene while jupyter only sees the surrogate
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2021-05-21 18:46:18	amo	i like it
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2021-05-21 19:12:47	river	hi
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2021-05-21 19:13:09	river	how do I make one of my modules in my python program get reloaded so the new version of the function in it is used?
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2021-05-21 19:14:11	amo	<.<
2021-05-21 19:14:26	amo	well...
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2021-05-21 19:15:20	amo	river, do you only have functions in this module?
2021-05-21 19:16:12	river	yes just one funcion
2021-05-21 19:16:25	river	I am starting to think that the reason it isnt working is because i did my reload inside a signal handler
2021-05-21 19:16:30	river	but i dont know how else to trigger it from outside
2021-05-21 19:16:56	amo	can you post the code in bpaste?
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2021-05-21 19:21:37	amo	i could give you the code i was just working on, it worked nicely in jupyter, reloading a module every n seconds
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2021-05-21 19:22:20	amo	might be a bit overkill
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2021-05-21 19:31:11	amo	river, do you still need help?
2021-05-21 19:31:29	nedbat	river: is it an option to restart the program?
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2021-05-21 19:40:29	river	thanks. I think I got it
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2021-05-21 19:40:45	nedbat	river: btw, while we have both freenode and libera, it's better to pick just one :)
2021-05-21 19:43:02	phasetwo	so everything moved to libera?
2021-05-21 19:43:13	phasetwo	shoot I can't even remember how to change servers in weechat.. hm
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2021-05-21 19:48:11	meejah	i keep getting no-data-collected error with coverage; this was happening before .. seems that only "--source ./src/magic_folder" fixes it but "--source magic_folder" (or specifying that in the config) doesn't work
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2021-05-21 19:59:49	nedbat	phasetwo: we have a foot in both worlds, waiting to see how it shakes out
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2021-05-21 20:00:01	nedbat	meejah: if you have a way that fixes it, why not use it?
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2021-05-21 20:01:13	pi-	I'm invoking some websocket code. It uses asyncio. And it blocks. `await wait_for_recv(websocket, read, is_debug, time_out)` ... next line after this never hits.
2021-05-21 20:01:31	pi-	Problem is, after subbing to my websocket stream, I want to do more things.
2021-05-21 20:01:40	pi-	How to manage this?
2021-05-21 20:01:56	pi-	I can't put the streamer in a thread -- that gives runloop errors.
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2021-05-21 20:09:27	meejah	nedbat: i guess i'm wondering why the package-name way doesn't work (and that seems way less brittle, in case path names are different in tox or CI)
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2021-05-21 20:10:58	eyepeetee	hello, i need some advice regarding classes, subclasses, and superclasses... i have a program where i make one parent class and two subclasses of that parent, but there are
2021-05-21 20:10:59	eyepeetee	functions that i want to add to both subclasses without adding them to the parent and without copying and pasting those functions verbatim once for each subclass
2021-05-21 20:11:05	eyepeetee	how can i accomplish this?
2021-05-21 20:11:27	nedbat	meejah: do you have a directory called magic_folder in the current directory?
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2021-05-21 20:12:01	nedbat	eyepeetee: you could make a mixin that you use in multiple inheritance in the subclasses.  You could make it a simple function that you don't make a method.
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2021-05-21 20:13:01	eyepeetee	nedbat - here's what my code for that currently looks like (imports and main function omitted): https://pastebin.com/PU2Z24jA lines 48-70, 82-85, and 97-100 make me uncomfortable and i am not sure if it's bad practice
2021-05-21 20:13:03	infobob	https://bpaste.net/FGWQ (repasted for eyepeetee)
2021-05-21 20:13:45	eyepeetee	i will look into mixins, i hadn't heard of that before
2021-05-21 20:14:15	eyepeetee	oooooooooooooh, mixins look like EXACTLY what i'm looking for
2021-05-21 20:14:20	eyepeetee	thank you a million
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2021-05-21 20:14:47	nedbat	eyepeetee: why not just put those methods in the parent?
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2021-05-21 20:15:33	eyepeetee	nedbat: they are too far off topic for the parent. i want to keep meaningful and logical separation between what the classes are intended to be doing
2021-05-21 20:15:33	pi-	https://bpa.st/FL2A <- this is the blocking code
2021-05-21 20:16:11	pi-	If I call `spot_subscribe_with_login()`, subsequent lines will never be reached.
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2021-05-21 20:18:44	eyepeetee	nedbat: this is my revised code for that - https://pastebin.com/FK2r2J76
2021-05-21 20:18:45	infobob	https://bpaste.net/JQGQ (repasted for eyepeetee)
2021-05-21 20:18:46	eyepeetee	works great
2021-05-21 20:18:50	eyepeetee	and feels clean
2021-05-21 20:18:52	eyepeetee	thanks again
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2021-05-21 20:19:51	nedbat	eyepeetee: sure. what about lines 77-81 and 87-91? Aren't they the same?
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2021-05-21 20:35:43	eyepeetee	nedbat: great point. i attempted to put that in my mixin but now i am having some other issues
2021-05-21 20:35:44	eyepeetee	https://pastebin.com/2qXbfSQy
2021-05-21 20:35:45	infobob	https://bpaste.net/WORQ (repasted for eyepeetee)
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2021-05-21 20:36:05	eyepeetee	this is my traceback... https://pastebin.com/Uw70AY47
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2021-05-21 20:36:06	infobob	https://bpaste.net/WL5A (repasted for eyepeetee)
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2021-05-21 20:36:12	eyepeetee	i tried google, it doesn't seem to have any idea
2021-05-21 20:36:45	nedbat	eyepeetee: change initialize_common to be __init__
2021-05-21 20:37:07	eyepeetee	wow yeah
2021-05-21 20:37:08	nedbat	eyepeetee: oh, except the args make it awkward
2021-05-21 20:37:20	eyepeetee	it does but that is the first step for sure
2021-05-21 20:37:38	eyepeetee	section_auth is the reason it was like that before
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2021-05-21 20:46:51	eyepeetee	wait so
2021-05-21 20:47:01	eyepeetee	how do i get a handle to the other parent from a mixin?
2021-05-21 20:47:10	eyepeetee	super just seems to refer to the base class
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2021-05-21 20:48:37	nedbat	eyepeetee: super calls the next class, which should also use super, etc.
2021-05-21 20:48:48	nedbat	eyepeetee: but you have arguments to pass, which complicates things
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2021-05-21 20:52:42	eyepeetee	nedbat: fair enough, i'll settle for what i've got then. 3 duplicate lines aren't the end of the world i suppose...but i think these exercises are good
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2021-05-21 20:59:37	dntreou	Hello everyone I have got a question regarding dictionaries, I am wondering if it is possible to loop through the keys of a dictionary and if I find the desired key to call the value like it is a function for example I want the value to do myvar+5
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2021-05-21 21:04:57	nedbat	dntreou: if you know the key you want, why not just use d[k] ?
2021-05-21 21:05:21	nedbat	dntreou: if you want to iterate over the keys, you can do:  for k in d:
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2021-05-21 21:06:01	pi-	Is there anyone out there that groks asyncio? I'm totally stuck: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67645262/how-to-invoke-asyncio-code-that-blocks-and-reach-the-next-line
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2021-05-21 21:09:17	blazeme8	pi-: if you remove all the `await` stuff from that program it's clear why it never reaches those lines
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2021-05-21 21:10:05	blazeme8	you probably want to run the first async function in a different way
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2021-05-21 21:11:03	blazeme8	async aside wait_for_recv would never exit anyway...
2021-05-21 21:12:17	blazeme8	maybe  call_soon_threadsafe instead of run_until_complete is what you want
2021-05-21 21:12:27	pi-	I can see there's an infinite loop
2021-05-21 21:12:29	blazeme8	if you intend to just fling things into the event loop
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2021-05-21 21:12:43	pi-	But I can't encapsulate it in a thread
2021-05-21 21:12:49	pi-	or I get runloop errors
2021-05-21 21:14:10	blazeme8	the event loop needs to run somewhere
2021-05-21 21:14:22	blazeme8	it will have a thread
2021-05-21 21:14:36	pi-	Both f and ag are inside a library that I would rather not fiddle with.
2021-05-21 21:14:56	pi-	I can't see any way through.
2021-05-21 21:15:16	pi-	let me try call_soon_threadsafe
2021-05-21 21:16:22	pi-	Nope :(
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2021-05-21 21:17:38	squirrel	well, there's a infinite loop as you said. how exactly do you want this to work if there's an infinite loop?
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2021-05-21 21:18:16	pi-	Ordinarily I would run the whole thing inside a thread
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2021-05-21 21:18:32	squirrel	what's "the whole thing"
2021-05-21 21:18:38	pi-	f
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2021-05-21 21:19:22	squirrel	this probably wouldn't print "never reaches" either
2021-05-21 21:19:31	squirrel	since... infinite loop
2021-05-21 21:19:47	pi-	You are right. I need to update the question.
2021-05-21 21:19:49	blazeme8	infinite and for reasons aside from asyncio
2021-05-21 21:20:01	pi-	Thanks
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2021-05-21 21:22:35	pi-	Fixed
2021-05-21 21:22:49	pi-	I mean, updated! FAR from a fix...
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2021-05-21 21:27:19	blazeme8	unless you change the code shown in that question, the answer is You Can't
2021-05-21 21:28:03	eyepeetee	i'm a bit puzzled about something. there's a website where, after logging in, if i clear cookies (cache too but it shouldn't matter) and reload, i'm still logged in, but if i open that site in a different browser that isn't logged in, it's not logged into the other browser. what gives? what do i need to do to log myself out without hitting the logout button?
2021-05-21 21:28:20	eyepeetee	i am using driver.delete_all_cookies() of selenium and i check in the browser storage to confirm the cookies actually have been deleted
2021-05-21 21:28:24	eyepeetee	so i am not sure what is going on
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2021-05-21 21:28:48	pi-	blazeme8: If I change the code, what can I do?
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2021-05-21 21:29:48	blazeme8	i can't tell what the intent is given that little context
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2021-05-21 21:30:30	squirrel	pi-: i suppose at this point i'd try to ask the author of the library to explain how this should be done
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2021-05-21 21:31:51	blazeme8	i also dont see why ye olde Thread(target=f).start() wouldn't work, lol
2021-05-21 21:31:51	pi-	squirrel: They won't pick up. I think I have to figure out how to execute all of this in another thread.
2021-05-21 21:33:26	pi-	RuntimeError: There is no current event loop in thread 'Thread-2'.
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2021-05-21 21:34:01	squirrel	in python, async usually means you don't want threads
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2021-05-21 21:36:23	squirrel	perhaps you could use ensure_future instead of run_until_complete
2021-05-21 21:36:30	blazeme8	looking at some of my old code, i call asyncio.get_event_loop() and pass that around as the loop param to various asyncio functions
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2021-05-21 21:36:47	blazeme8	this general structure https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-eventloop.html#hello-world-with-call-soon
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2021-05-21 21:37:47	squirrel	or maybe call_soon yes
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2021-05-21 21:38:15	blazeme8	i think the misunderstanding here is that you _need_ to call run_forever or run_until_complete or similar somewhere
2021-05-21 21:38:26	blazeme8	that... is what makes asyncio and the things you want it to call get called
2021-05-21 21:39:42	squirrel	i was hoping they are starting a loop somewhere :s
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2021-05-21 21:41:01	blazeme8	well no i think the code they posted in the question is just fine as it is. f() is some server meant to run forever and process() would use call_soon or whatever to handle each client connection
2021-05-21 21:41:04	blazeme8	for example
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2021-05-21 21:45:28	madmallard	Does anyone know a good way to screenshot a window in python that preserves desktop DPI without taking too long? I tried win32gui's methods with setting the user32dll to be DPI aware and it still gives me the wrong resolution. It is the correct speed though. If I use pyautogui's screenshot method it preserves desktop dpi (probably by using the
2021-05-21 21:45:29	madmallard	screenshot hotkey) but it takes almost a second which is just entirely too slow.
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2021-05-21 21:56:44	jwhisnant	madmallard: why is one second "too slow"?
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2021-05-21 21:56:57	madmallard	i'm botting
2021-05-21 21:57:04	tm007	what
2021-05-21 21:57:09	madmallard	botting a game
2021-05-21 21:57:22	madmallard	SS needs to be fast
2021-05-21 21:57:25	nedbat	madmallard: we might not know what that means.
2021-05-21 21:57:26	madmallard	milliseconds
2021-05-21 21:57:28	pi-	blazeme8 squirrel: Thankyou, it now works 🙏
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2021-05-21 21:57:48	madmallard	is there no way to make win32gui DPI aware?
2021-05-21 21:57:54	blazeme8	nice!
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2021-05-21 21:57:59	madmallard	cuz the SS function of it normally took 11 milliseconds which is great
2021-05-21 21:58:06	madmallard	but it's just the wrong resolution for some reason
2021-05-21 21:58:57	madmallard	and i did nothing to change the resolution in the code
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2021-05-21 22:01:26	BrenBarn	It looks like Pillow has a screen grab function, I've never used it though
2021-05-21 22:01:27	BrenBarn	have you treid it?
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2021-05-21 22:07:24	madmallard	i believe i did i don't recall how slow it was or not
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2021-05-21 22:07:37	madmallard	have to figure out how to make that PIL image get into cv2 tho before i use it for testing
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2021-05-21 22:10:24	madmallard	looks like that one took 600 milliseconds
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2021-05-21 22:11:19	madmallard	oh maybe not maybe it is ok
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2021-05-21 23:02:09	glick	hi
2021-05-21 23:02:37	glick	hi does anyone know of a cool fairly easy to use gui builder for python
2021-05-21 23:02:41	glick	like a RAD
2021-05-21 23:02:46	glick	visual GUI builder?
2021-05-21 23:03:04	SnoopJ	If you use PyQt you can use all the bells and whistles of Qt Designer as far as I know
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2021-05-21 23:03:18	glick	qt designer ... that beast ?
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2021-05-21 23:03:30	glick	isnt that like 5gigs
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2021-05-21 23:04:54	SnoopJ	It's not small
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2021-05-21 23:05:24	SnoopJ	Not sure if Kivy has any UI design tools, but that would be a place to look for a fairly popular modern choice
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2021-05-21 23:52:22	NeilG	what's a nice way of making a dependency graph in python?
2021-05-21 23:52:51	NeilG	I want to be able to dirty some dependencies and update the topologically-sorted successors
2021-05-21 23:52:57	NeilG	networkx?
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2021-05-22 01:10:02	glick	dam i have a csv file with 1 million rows where the date is in a messed up format. is there an easy way to fix the format or do i have to write code to fix it
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2021-05-22 01:11:31	BrenBarn	not sure what you mean
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2021-05-22 01:11:53	BrenBarn	if it's in a format that can be read by something like pandas then you might be able to just read it in and then write it out with a better format
2021-05-22 01:12:08	BrenBarn	but that would still involve writing some small amount of code
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2021-05-22 01:14:42	glick	for example, there are two date fields, and the dates are written as month/day/YYYY, an did like to convert it into a format i can more easily insert into a database yyyy-mm-dd
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2021-05-22 01:15:55	sartan	store it in iso 8601 format, present it in whatever you want
2021-05-22 01:16:03	sartan	or as datetime object in your db
2021-05-22 01:16:13	glick	yes but i need to convert it into that format first
2021-05-22 01:16:29	glick	i cant insert mm/dd/yyyy into the database as a date object
2021-05-22 01:16:39	glick	it needs to be in yyyy-mm-dd format
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2021-05-22 01:18:28	NeilG	can someone help me work through my design?  I'm trying to build a class that has an explicit dependency graph between its methods
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2021-05-22 01:19:24	NeilG	I'm thinking of decorating methods with a memoization decorator that has the ability to be dirtied, and when dirtied will dirty all successors in the dependency graph
2021-05-22 01:19:30	NeilG	does that sound reasonable?
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2021-05-22 01:51:10	BrenBarn	glick: Then load it in somewhere and write it back out.  I mean if you want you could try something like using a regex on the file line by line but that would be quite fragile
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2021-05-22 02:30:31	NeilG	does anyone know how to decorate a property?
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2021-05-22 02:32:38	Wulf	NeilG: @foo @property def bar(self): ...
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2021-05-22 02:33:11	KirkMcDonald	Though you might want to swap the order of that, depending.
2021-05-22 02:33:29	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, that's the question I'm trying to work out
2021-05-22 02:33:41	KirkMcDonald	You generally want @property to be applied last, which is to say, to be the topmost-listed decorator.
2021-05-22 02:34:00	KirkMcDonald	Because the thing it returns is not a callable.
2021-05-22 02:34:00	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, can you help me understand why?
2021-05-22 02:34:05	NeilG	ok
2021-05-22 02:34:06	Wulf	then it wouldn't be decorating a property, but creating a property from a decorated function ;-)
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2021-05-22 02:34:43	KirkMcDonald	Now, there's nothing saying you can't write a decorator that is meant to be applied to a property object, but generally I'm assuming you're talking about function decorators.
2021-05-22 02:35:11	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, I think I could write it either way.  I need to think about it some more...
2021-05-22 02:35:43	NeilG	if anyone wants to see my code, I would love some pointers
2021-05-22 02:35:48	KirkMcDonald	Applying it to the property object is more complicated. You basically have to implement your own descriptor type. That or return the property itself.
2021-05-22 02:36:31	KirkMcDonald	Or pick apart the components of the property object, decorate those, and make a new property.
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2021-05-22 02:37:10	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, yeah that makes sense
2021-05-22 02:37:20	NeilG	it's more really a design problem
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2021-05-22 02:37:51	NeilG	do you know if I can use __init_subclass__ with dataclasses?
2021-05-22 02:38:01	glick	how can i read a csv file with over a million rows
2021-05-22 02:38:11	glick	i get field larger than field limit error when i try to read this file
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2021-05-22 02:40:52	Wulf	NeilG: it works. And I use it for one of my projects
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2021-05-22 02:41:12	NeilG	Wulf, nice, perfect
2021-05-22 02:41:18	NeilG	thanks
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2021-05-22 02:42:42	Wulf	another project I should work on...
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2021-05-22 02:43:48	NeilG	Wulf, lol
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2021-05-22 02:45:42	NeilG	Wulf, sorry, qq, if I want to intercept attribute setting in a dataclass, can I do it with __setattr__, __setattribute__ or something else?
2021-05-22 02:47:03	Wulf	NeilG: you mean like foo = C(); foo.bar = 29?
2021-05-22 02:47:11	NeilG	yeah
2021-05-22 02:47:16	NeilG	I think it works with __setattr__
2021-05-22 02:47:26	NeilG	if I call super so as not to break anything
2021-05-22 02:47:29	NeilG	does that seem reasonable to you?
2021-05-22 02:48:10	Wulf	NeilG: I think @dataclass will create the __setsomething__ for you in your class
2021-05-22 02:48:30	NeilG	Mind I paste my code?
2021-05-22 02:48:38	Wulf	NeilG: https://bpa.st/+python
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2021-05-22 02:48:52	NeilG	https://bpa.st/H5VQ
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2021-05-22 02:49:41	NeilG	This gives a bit more context: https://bpa.st/FNTQ
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2021-05-22 02:50:39	NeilG	I'm trying to come up with a nice way so that whenever an attribute is dirtied, all of the methods that depend on it are also dirtied
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2021-05-22 02:52:21	NeilG	anyway, sorry it's a bit long
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2021-05-22 02:52:24	NeilG	design problems are the hardest
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2021-05-22 03:32:57	spunk	glick: you can iterate through that file.
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2021-05-22 04:35:30	carbonbasedman	good morning computer people. how are you? I have some confusion over the packaging in python. recently there has been a lot of evolvement in the topic. setup.py deprecated, setup.cfg possibly as well. I've used poetry for some time and it seems like the pyproject.toml is the new thing, which is cool. the problem I have, is besides setup.{cfg,py} I do not know how to implement automatic
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2021-05-22 04:35:32	carbonbasedman	installation of a command line utility. in cfg it's [options.entry_point]\nconsole_scripts = . How it would be possible to do such thing with pyproject.toml?
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2021-05-22 04:36:15	supakeen	carbonbasedman, https://github.com/supakeen/steck/blob/master/pyproject.toml#L52
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2021-05-22 04:37:09	carbonbasedman	alright. will it install in a given virtual-env/system a command line script? or it just gives me a chance to do a "poetry <commandline>"?
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2021-05-22 04:37:36	carbonbasedman	thank you for response, btw.
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2021-05-22 04:38:24	supakeen	If you install the package it does the former yes, don't know about the second as I rarely use that.
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2021-05-22 04:39:11	carbonbasedman	ok. thank you sir/madam!
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2021-05-22 04:50:04	amogorkon	maybe i should refactor use() into a module-class like q.. any objections?
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2021-05-22 05:08:40	stevieh	hmm... I am stuck in remote debugging with vscode. I am on the remote host, I can run scripts there but setting breakpoints does not show any effect...
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2021-05-22 05:10:34	stevieh	editing a file on remote also works...
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2021-05-22 05:13:12	stevieh	I am confused: do I need to integrate ptvsd for that in my code?
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2021-05-22 05:21:03	very_sneaky	stevieh: i don't know the answer to your question, but a quick workaround might be to install pudb3 on the remote host and just use that in a shell until you find a solution for this?
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2021-05-22 05:23:04	stevieh	hmm.. thx. But I wanted to understand to get vscode working for remote debugging.
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2021-05-22 05:29:23	__that__	Morning all
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2021-05-22 05:34:38	__that__	I have a flask app that check a user.env file. If some variables don't appear there it should raise an exception. The exception is actually raised as the server stops there however I don't see the exception message printed on the console nor the server process exits - I am running dev server for the sake of the argument.  It is only when I try to
2021-05-22 05:34:38	__that__	request the backend from the frontend when I get that exception printed on the console.
2021-05-22 05:35:12	__that__	so I guess my question is why isn't that exception being logged on the console while running the flask server in the first instance
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2021-05-22 05:44:54	stevieh	hmm. do I _have_ to set up  a virtual env to use the debugger?
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2021-05-22 05:49:23	shivam_	I have a python code which produces correct output in IDE(Pycharm) but incorrect output when run in terminal. Is this a common mistake or I might be doing some version errors?
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2021-05-22 05:50:19	shivam_	both my IDE and terminal uses python3 so I don't really think its some version error
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2021-05-22 05:51:07	stevieh	is both the same python3? or are u in a venv in pycharm?
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2021-05-22 05:51:38	shivam_	stevieh, I am not sure about the venv though it also runs correctly on any online IDE
2021-05-22 05:51:47	shivam_	should I share my code, if that helps?
2021-05-22 05:52:02	stevieh	you could try
2021-05-22 05:53:35	shivam_	https://bpa.st/MEUA
2021-05-22 05:53:49	shivam_	Its divided into Runner and solution files
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2021-05-22 06:01:10	shivam_	just to be sure, to pass an input file we use python3 file.py < input.txt
2021-05-22 06:01:12	shivam_	right?
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2021-05-22 06:05:33	supakeen	You can do that, it'll put data on stdin.
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2021-05-22 06:06:30	amogorkon	is there a way to singledispatch on methods?
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2021-05-22 06:09:10	amogorkon	i guess i'll do it with closures then..
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2021-05-22 06:12:42	amogorkon	or is match/case maybe in __future__?
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2021-05-22 07:03:36	shivam_	supakeen, That was the exact issue! I was not using strip() to take input the string which is why in my terminal the input was not coming properly
2021-05-22 07:03:43	shivam_	Thanks, haha :)
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2021-05-22 07:30:58	ssiyad	hey, what's the timedelta type in peewee?
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2021-05-22 07:37:15	ssiyad	nvm got it
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2021-05-22 09:03:55	lntl	 Hi, I am just getting started with spark and specifically pyspark. I am getting some warnings and would like to know how important they are and steps to ameliorate.
2021-05-22 09:04:00	lntl	https://termbin.com/vp3pl
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2021-05-22 09:49:54	Deknos	why is [elem, elem, elem if fullfills(conditionvar)] not valid python?
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2021-05-22 09:52:37	ChrisWarrick	Deknos: because there is no syntax like this in python.
2021-05-22 09:53:47	ChrisWarrick	Deknos: there are other valid syntaxes that might produce what you want (but you’d need to precisely describe what it is)
2021-05-22 09:54:02	river	because ptyhon sucks and contribues to global worming!
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2021-05-22 09:55:18	bjs	river: now now :)
2021-05-22 09:55:52	Deknos	o_O
2021-05-22 09:55:56	bjs	Deknos: what did you want it to do?  I can think of a few interpretations and there should be a way to do each with similar syntax.
2021-05-22 09:56:20	Deknos	well, i wanted to add a element to an array, if a certain condition is fullfilled in an expression
2021-05-22 09:56:44	bjs	Deknos: ah,  sadly the list literal syntax doesn't allow the `if` there
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2021-05-22 09:57:02	gitesh_	Hi
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2021-05-22 09:57:19	bjs	Deknos: so you cannot have conditional elements in the literal.  But you can do something like `if condition: the_list.append(elem)` or `[elem, elem] + [elem] if condition else []`
2021-05-22 09:57:19	Deknos	yeah, i wondered about that because [x if y] is totally valid, i thought, some preexisting elements should not disturb
2021-05-22 09:57:26	bjs	Deknos: that is not valid
2021-05-22 09:57:43	Deknos	bjs, yeah, i did your second example
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2021-05-22 09:58:05	bjs	It's something I've thought about before,  proposing [x if y] but I didn't find any really compelling examples
2021-05-22 09:58:09	bjs	gitesh_: hi
2021-05-22 09:58:43	gitesh_	how is ttk is called seperately like from tkinter import tk ?
2021-05-22 09:59:44	gitesh_	what is constructor?
2021-05-22 09:59:54	bjs	gitesh_: `from tkinter import tk` doesn't seem like it should work? There is no `tk` name in tkinter is there?
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2021-05-22 09:59:56	bjs	unless you mean Tk
2021-05-22 10:00:16	bjs	gitesh_: the constructor is what some people call the function that runs when you make (construct) a new object
2021-05-22 10:00:20	amogorkon	now that i refactored use() into a class, i'm brainstorming whether additional syntax could be useful in context of imports
2021-05-22 10:00:30	bjs	gitesh_: people often use the term constructor to mean __init__, if you know classes.
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2021-05-22 10:00:33	gitesh_	no, `from tkinter import ttk
2021-05-22 10:00:39	bjs	gitesh_: what about that line?
2021-05-22 10:00:43	gitesh_	`from tkinter import ttk`
2021-05-22 10:01:17	amogorkon	any ideas how &/|-[]+*^ could be useful with modules or imports?
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2021-05-22 10:01:35	gitesh_	I am already importing `import tkinter as tk` but i have also need to do `from tkinter import ttk`
2021-05-22 10:02:02	bjs	gitesh_: tkinter.ttk is a different module.  the tkinter module has a "sub-module" called ttk. See https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html for its documentation
2021-05-22 10:03:05	gitesh_	then what is tkinter? a module?
2021-05-22 10:03:09	bjs	gitesh_: yes
2021-05-22 10:03:29	gitesh_	ah
2021-05-22 10:03:31	bjs	gitesh_: there's a tkinter/ directory somewhere on your computer, and inside that directory is a ttk/ directory which contains the ttk code
2021-05-22 10:04:00	Deknos	is anyone aware of a library for linux which gets me the device id for a directory? because files in different directories might be in an internal disk or usb disk, or even network shares. though i am not sure, which device id a network share would have
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2021-05-22 10:04:05	bjs	gitesh_: the docs for the tkinter.ttk module suggests it contains some widgets from Tk 8.5+ which have the same behaviour but a different look-and-feel as the ones in just tkinter.
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2021-05-22 10:04:30	gitesh_	hmm....
2021-05-22 10:04:32	bjs	gitesh_: see "Using the Ttk widgets gives the application an improved look and feel. As discussed above, there are differences in how the styling is coded."
2021-05-22 10:04:33	gitesh_	i got that
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2021-05-22 10:05:05	bjs	gitesh_: so tkinter defines a Button widget,  but tkinter.ttk also defines a Button widget which uses the Tk 8.5 widget which looks different to the tkinter.Button widget
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2021-05-22 10:05:51	gitesh_	ok
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2021-05-22 10:06:38	caveman	how to create an empty file in python?  with open('lol', 'w') as f: pass?
2021-05-22 10:06:59	gitesh_	touch?
2021-05-22 10:07:00	amogorkon	you can use pathlib.touch
2021-05-22 10:07:21	caveman	which one is better?
2021-05-22 10:07:30	amogorkon	https://docs.python.org/3/library/pathlib.html#pathlib.Path.touch
2021-05-22 10:07:38	amogorkon	for what?
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2021-05-22 10:07:49	caveman	for creating an empty file.
2021-05-22 10:08:16	amogorkon	try pathlib ;)
2021-05-22 10:08:22	bjs	caveman: it depends what you want to happen if it already exists
2021-05-22 10:08:37	gitesh_	GUI's event-driven means what?
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2021-05-22 10:09:02	gitesh_	all the time events are created when a user is using it?
2021-05-22 10:09:10	ChrisWarrick	gitesh_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event-driven_programming
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2021-05-22 10:09:26	caveman	bjs: what are the list of what-happens?  i can only think of: flush file's content if file exists.
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2021-05-22 10:09:42	bjs	caveman: well there's the behaviour that "touch" has, and then there's the behaviour your code has
2021-05-22 10:09:45	bjs	they do different things.
2021-05-22 10:09:49	soft_concrete	When iterating over each character in a string in **python**, is there some hidden variable I can access that is keeping track of how many iterations the loop has been through? Or do I have to set up, and increment, my own counter variable?
2021-05-22 10:09:55	bjs	caveman: neither do anything I'd describe as "flush" though
2021-05-22 10:10:09	amogorkon	but pathlib is cool
2021-05-22 10:10:11	amogorkon	:p
2021-05-22 10:10:19	bjs	soft_concrete: `for i, thing in enumerate(iterable): ...` then i is the counter
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2021-05-22 10:10:34	soft_concrete	bjs: yeah, but what if I'm doing for char in string:
2021-05-22 10:10:41	bjs	soft_concrete: `for i, char in enumerate(string): ...`
2021-05-22 10:10:48	caveman	i already use os.unlink.  pathlib.path.unlink also exists.  which one should i use?
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2021-05-22 10:11:00	bjs	soft_concrete: although note that Python's strings aren't "characters" they're "unicode codepoints" which may or may not matter
2021-05-22 10:11:06	ChrisWarrick	caveman: pathlib is a much more modern approach to paths
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2021-05-22 10:11:25	bjs	caveman: unless you have a strong reason not to, I'd just use pathlib anywhere you can
2021-05-22 10:11:37	caveman	i just want to delete a file with unlink.
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2021-05-22 10:11:55	amogorkon	just try pathlib, you'll like it
2021-05-22 10:12:08	ChrisWarrick	soft_concrete: python does keep track of indexes internally, but that’s not exposed in any way to your code
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2021-05-22 10:13:55	soft_concrete	bjs: is the way you described, using enumerate, more pythonic than using my own counter variable?
2021-05-22 10:14:02	bjs	soft_concrete: yes
2021-05-22 10:14:07	soft_concrete	alright
2021-05-22 10:14:09	bjs	soft_concrete: there's a reason it's built-in and is there to use
2021-05-22 10:14:19	bjs	it is the "keep track of how many iterations there have been" built-in
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2021-05-22 10:15:31	caveman	thanks.  will use pathlib.  seems more abstracty.
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2021-05-22 10:18:10	soft_concrete	can anyone provide feedback on my little program? I'm new to python. Thanks. https://termbin.com/azdl0
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2021-05-22 10:19:14	amogorkon	soft_concrete, what is the purpose of this code?
2021-05-22 10:19:43	soft_concrete	amogorkon: mainly just learning how to do things in python, coming from C. it's a mostly useless program
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2021-05-22 10:19:51	soft_concrete	although it does average some numbers the user inputs
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2021-05-22 10:19:59	soft_concrete	and convert a word to uppercase
2021-05-22 10:19:59	amogorkon	what's cs50?
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2021-05-22 10:20:20	ChrisWarrick	soft_concrete: the entire for loop seems like overkill
2021-05-22 10:20:24	soft_concrete	it's an excellent free course: https://cs50.harvard.edu/x/2021/ also "pip install cs50"
2021-05-22 10:20:38	amogorkon	okay
2021-05-22 10:20:42	bjs	soft_concrete: it seems good,  does it work?
2021-05-22 10:20:48	soft_concrete	bjs: it does work!
2021-05-22 10:21:01	bjs	soft_concrete: neat!  keep at it
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2021-05-22 10:21:22	madmallard	https://paste.ofcode.org/8HjEMui4kURacD4DcbVmWh
2021-05-22 10:21:23	IceMichael	yeah, loop is not needed there
2021-05-22 10:21:30	madmallard	can someone help me understand why this code gives me the entirely wrong DPI for the screenshot?
2021-05-22 10:21:31	IceMichael	one-letter variable names are a no-go
2021-05-22 10:21:33	amogorkon	soft_concrete, try to use f-strings, you can beautify some of your code
2021-05-22 10:21:39	ChrisWarrick	soft_concrete: I’d handle the 's' removal with `removesuffix` in python 3.9+, or with slicing in older versions
2021-05-22 10:21:47	IceMichael	and (len(s) - 1) == i does not need brackets
2021-05-22 10:21:57	ChrisWarrick	madmallard: wrong DPI?
2021-05-22 10:22:12	madmallard	yeah much lower DPI
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2021-05-22 10:22:14	madmallard	than my actual resolution
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2021-05-22 10:22:39	madmallard	like 1024x768 on this screenshot is showing the same information as like 1200x800 on my desktop
2021-05-22 10:23:12	IceMichael	but if it works, that's nice
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2021-05-22 10:25:17	soft_concrete	IceMichael: how would I use toupper and removesuffix on string at the same time?
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2021-05-22 10:25:34	soft_concrete	I want to use toupper first and then remove suffix 'S'
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2021-05-22 10:27:01	ChrisWarrick	madmallard: perhaps showing the input and output of this code would help us understand the problem
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2021-05-22 10:27:55	madmallard	input is the crop section of the screen its just like 800x800 it is irrelevant because i have other code doing screenshot with the same crop dimensions
2021-05-22 10:27:56	madmallard	breaking
2021-05-22 10:27:58	madmallard	err not breaking
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2021-05-22 10:28:07	madmallard	output is a screenshot of a cropped section of the screen
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2021-05-22 10:28:13	madmallard	and like i said it has MUCH lower DPI than the actual screen does
2021-05-22 10:28:16	ChrisWarrick	madmallard: okay, compare the two code samples
2021-05-22 10:28:26	madmallard	i mean the other way of doing it is literally 1 line
2021-05-22 10:28:26	amogorkon	madmallard, are you still building your game bot?
2021-05-22 10:28:28	madmallard	pyautogui.screenshot()
2021-05-22 10:28:35	madmallard	that gives me correct DPI
2021-05-22 10:28:42	madmallard	using this win32gui screenshot code gives me way too low DPI
2021-05-22 10:28:54	madmallard	yes i am
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2021-05-22 10:30:08	amogorkon	is there some higher purpose for that bot?
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2021-05-22 10:32:06	madmallard	i'm automating a boring aspect of a game nobody likes
2021-05-22 10:32:25	amogorkon	so you're building a gold miner?
2021-05-22 10:32:34	amogorkon	in an online game?
2021-05-22 10:32:34	madmallard	nope
2021-05-22 10:32:38	madmallard	i'm automating the blood web in DBD
2021-05-22 10:32:47	madmallard	not really a "cheating" bot at all
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2021-05-22 10:33:00	madmallard	nobody likes doing bloodwebs
2021-05-22 10:33:06	bjs	soft_concrete: s.upper().removesuffix('S')  # like that.
2021-05-22 10:33:23	bjs	soft_concrete: but the loop is fine,  it's not how i'd write it but it works.
2021-05-22 10:33:33	madmallard	the screenshots have to be fast otherwise there'd be no reason to use the bot over doing it manually
2021-05-22 10:33:59	soft_concrete	bjs: this is coming from someone taking a course that taught C first, so I'm used to having to do things at a lower level with loops and such
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2021-05-22 10:34:39	soft_concrete	bjs: how would you do it? I'm curious
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2021-05-22 10:35:03	bjs	soft_concrete: it's good to be able to do things with loops.  If you can do things with loops then sometimes you can be clever and use the built-in things.  But sometimes those built-in things don't exist and you have to use loops
2021-05-22 10:35:07	bjs	so it's good to know how to do it
2021-05-22 10:35:30	soft_concrete	I think that's why this course teaches C before python
2021-05-22 10:35:47	soft_concrete	also, so that we understand a little more how things work behind the scenes
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2021-05-22 10:37:00	bjs	soft_concrete: `scores = [get_int("Score: ") for _ in range(n)]; print("AVERAGE {}: {}".format(s.upper().removesuffix("S"), sum(scores)/len(scores))`  or something like that
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2021-05-22 10:37:46	ChrisWarrick	that’s a bit golfy for my liking
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2021-05-22 10:38:03	bjs	maybe I'd put things on different lines with some extra variables :)
2021-05-22 10:38:48	bjs	soft_concrete: but I wouldn't expect anyone new to python/programming to come up with code like that.
2021-05-22 10:39:18	amogorkon	i would use an f-string instead of format
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2021-05-22 10:39:33	amogorkon	but s.upper().removesuffix() is not golfy
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2021-05-22 10:39:51	soft_concrete	golfy meaning not nice and readable?
2021-05-22 10:39:58	amogorkon	nah
2021-05-22 10:40:18	amogorkon	it means "in the most compact way possible, sacrificing readability"
2021-05-22 10:40:19	bjs	soft_concrete: it means short,  ChrisWarrick was just saying I should've put things on more lines
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2021-05-22 10:40:35	bjs	tbh this is simple enough I probably wouldn't, but you can give names to things.
2021-05-22 10:41:01	bjs	soft_concrete: I would point out that simply removing a trailing "s" on an English word is not a very robust way to turn plural into singular
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2021-05-22 10:41:10	amogorkon	chaining string-methods is quite common
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2021-05-22 10:42:03	amogorkon	bjs, nltk? ^^
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2021-05-22 10:43:00	bjs	amogorkon: I think it's ok to notice that it's not a very good way to convert plural to singular,  but then just accept it and move on because doing it "right" is hard.  (Maybe just not doing it is better?)
2021-05-22 10:43:46	amogorkon	it could be an interesting excursion for someone natural language-inclined
2021-05-22 10:43:56	bjs	I'd just print(f"AVERAGE: {sum(scores)/len(scores)})` in reality, and not mess with the plural stuff at all, but I assumed soft_concrete did it because it was part of the requirement for the program they wrote
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2021-05-22 10:45:17	amogorkon	soft_concrete, are you interested in natural language processing?
2021-05-22 10:48:08	soft_concrete	bjs: not a requirement. I just thought "AVERAGE WIDGETS: 32.5" looked bad
2021-05-22 10:48:17	soft_concrete	amogorkon: not at this point. why do you ask?
2021-05-22 10:48:34	bjs	soft_concrete: "AVERAGE WIDGET: 32.5" also doesn't make much sense
2021-05-22 10:48:43	soft_concrete	true
2021-05-22 10:48:47	bjs	soft_concrete: really it's the average _score_ of those widgets. So you may as well _always_ otuput "AVERAGE SCORE: 32.5"
2021-05-22 10:48:49	bjs	or just "AVERAGE: 32.5"
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2021-05-22 10:48:55	bjs	one of those is what I would do
2021-05-22 10:48:57	amogorkon	because python is the defacto programming language for scientific research in this area and plural vs. singular is a tough nut to crack
2021-05-22 10:49:16	amogorkon	so there's a lot of stuff to discover, if you wanted to go down that road
2021-05-22 10:49:20	ChrisWarrick	scientists using python does not make everyone using python a scientist
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2021-05-22 10:49:44	amogorkon	ChrisWarrick, you don't have to be a scientist to be curious ^^
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2021-05-22 10:50:17	ChrisWarrick	amogorkon: sure, but cs50 is an introductory course, perhaps let’s not overwhelm people
2021-05-22 10:50:25	TML	I'm not at all convinced Python is "the defacto programming language for scientific research in (NLP)" - it's certainly *A* language used in *SOME* NLP research.
2021-05-22 10:50:30	rendar	if i have: `class MyObject: MY_CONST = 2.0    ANOTHER_CONST = 5.0* MyObject.MY_CONST?!` how can i do this?
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2021-05-22 10:50:56	ChrisWarrick	rendar: did you try just 5.0 * MY_CONST?
2021-05-22 10:51:09	rendar	uhm, nope
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2021-05-22 10:52:16	bjs	rendar: maybe you should try that :)
2021-05-22 10:52:34	TML	rendar: https://replit.com/@tml/ProfitableMoralFactorial#main.py
2021-05-22 10:52:50	rendar	thanks
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2021-05-22 11:00:44	Non-ICE	i have thermal camera pointed at a room in a production, this camara sees pretty much anything in theree
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2021-05-22 11:00:55	Non-ICE	amongst 7 electric motors
2021-05-22 11:01:17	Non-ICE	that if they run out of oil increase temperature from 70ish to 120 degC
2021-05-22 11:01:42	Non-ICE	i read the max temperature of the image every 1 minute
2021-05-22 11:01:51	Non-ICE	but
2021-05-22 11:02:07	Non-ICE	in this room they also drive around with diesel powered powerloaders
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2021-05-22 11:02:43	Non-ICE	with exhaust pipes in the 140Deg C range which of course adds noise to my readings every now ann then
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2021-05-22 11:03:42	Non-ICE	any suggestions to the best approach to get an alert when one of the electric motors hit 100C?
2021-05-22 11:04:11	TML	Non-ICE: Never worked with a thermal camera before - can you not tell from the data coming back from the camera WHERE the hot-spot is?
2021-05-22 11:04:22	Non-ICE	no, all i get is the max temperature
2021-05-22 11:04:34	Non-ICE	anywhere in the image
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2021-05-22 11:04:51	Non-ICE	but i was thinking
2021-05-22 11:05:10	TML	Can you share a sample of what the datastream from the camera looks like?
2021-05-22 11:05:15	Non-ICE	well if the lowest tempo for the past 10 minutes is above 100C we know there is a problem
2021-05-22 11:05:40	Non-ICE	another aproach would be throwing away samples that are lets say 5C above average or something
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2021-05-22 11:06:40	Non-ICE	i just query the camera API and get a float in return
2021-05-22 11:07:14	Non-ICE	i have some logs, but they are not running production today
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2021-05-22 11:09:18	Non-ICE	or maybe i should just sort all samples and throw away the lowest and highest?
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2021-05-22 11:25:20	gitesh_	If you were doing GUI programming using python's tkinter, how would you set up the code, would you code as per grid layout one after another?
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2021-05-22 11:28:24	ChrisWarrick	gitesh_: be more specific
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2021-05-22 11:31:48	gitesh_	for example this is the code ----- https://bpa.st/4SBA
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2021-05-22 11:32:16	gitesh_	will I first code label, button or text entry , how will i decide?
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2021-05-22 11:33:33	ChrisWarrick	it usually doesn’t matter
2021-05-22 11:33:44	ChrisWarrick	it might be good to keep some logical order
2021-05-22 11:34:12	gitesh_	ok
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2021-05-22 11:54:46	amerlyq	how to prevent sourcing rest of python module (e.g. if required imported module does not exists) ?
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2021-05-22 11:55:42	amerlyq	CASE: try: import mymod; except: return(); ... @mymod class AAA: pass
2021-05-22 11:55:48	ChrisWarrick	amerlyq: an importerror will be thrown, and whatever is importing your code will also get an error
2021-05-22 11:56:02	ChrisWarrick	amerlyq: you don’t need to catch the exception here
2021-05-22 11:56:41	mefistofeles	https://pdm.fming.dev/ interesting, didn't know that pep
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2021-05-22 11:57:12	amerlyq	but I want to prevent the error floating up -- basically I write plugin for neovim and don't want to get the error each time when I open neovim, if one of optional modules does not exist
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2021-05-22 11:57:38	amerlyq	ChrisWarrick: do you have any idea how to accomplish error suppression in that case?
2021-05-22 11:58:20	ChrisWarrick	amerlyq: you’d need to come up with a specific structure for everything where the module would be used
2021-05-22 11:58:49	ChrisWarrick	amerlyq: for your decorator, I’d write a dummy   decorator = lambda x: x   that would be used in the `except ImportError`: branch
2021-05-22 11:58:53	itai	I am trying to dump data to csv files; but there are connections, foreign keys between csv tables. these asre one to many, one to one relations. At the end, I will load these datasets with pandas.
2021-05-22 11:59:28	itai	what's the best way of handling dependencies between records in a csv file?
2021-05-22 11:59:39	itai	across csv tables
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2021-05-22 12:00:03	ChrisWarrick	itai: there’s nothing special you can do
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2021-05-22 12:01:00	amerlyq	ChrisWarrick: hm, it's not best idea (must mock too many methods), but not bad overall. Still simple "stop parsing here and return" would be much cleaner :(
2021-05-22 12:01:02	itai	it is supported by csv and pandas, right? it is common to create datasets with relations?
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2021-05-22 12:01:11	itai	ChrisWarrick: thanks ;)
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2021-05-22 12:01:47	mefistofeles	itai: I'd think a spreadsheetshould format handle that better, but yeah, I don't see csv format doing any of that, and pandas either... not by itself
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2021-05-22 12:01:55	ChrisWarrick	itai: csv doesn’t care
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2021-05-22 12:02:29	itai	cool, I will have to implement the mapping
2021-05-22 12:02:45	ChrisWarrick	(also, why pandas?)
2021-05-22 12:03:10	dfcnvt	Is "Turing Complete" just another meaning of virtualization?  Like, a physical computer is capable of running the Virutal machine and that would proof it as a Turing machine.
2021-05-22 12:03:13	itai	I use it to generate graphs with python and other libraries.
2021-05-22 12:03:21	ChrisWarrick	dfcnvt: nope, not at all
2021-05-22 12:03:31	itai	It's a nice way of loading data form csv
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2021-05-22 12:04:25	ChrisWarrick	dfcnvt: the formal definition aside, turing-completeness typically means a general-purpose programming language, as opposed to a domain-specific thing with many limitations
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2021-05-22 12:06:16	dfcnvt	So...the highness of computational ability would be in a rough definition of turing-completeness?  Hm, I'll have to rethink a bit -- since it won't make sense if I try to define what does "lowness of computational" would even mean.
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2021-05-22 12:07:55	dfcnvt	I think I'll keep your frame of reference.
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2021-05-22 12:09:42	ChrisWarrick	dfcnvt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness#Examples
2021-05-22 12:10:17	dfcnvt	Aye, thanks.
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2021-05-22 12:11:14	tete_	hi, i tried to use rpy2 and when i do something like robjects.r['pi'] it works, but when i try robjects.r['toString(pi)'] it does not work. the error is: KeyError: "'toString(pi)' not found" - anyone an idea why?
2021-05-22 12:11:20	tete_	in the terminal of R it works
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2021-05-22 12:12:39	rinzewind	tete_: Could it be that you are using 'toString(pi)' but you really need toString(pi)?
2021-05-22 12:13:03	rinzewind	With the quotes, you're using literally 'toString(pi)', not the output of toString with pi as an argument.
2021-05-22 12:13:15	tete_	hm
2021-05-22 12:13:31	tete_	but i do have to use ' ' to pass it to robjects.r, i guess
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2021-05-22 12:13:59	tete_	when i dont use ' ' its a python error
2021-05-22 12:14:26	tete_	toString not defined... i have to pass this as string. this is the R code as string i pass to .r['...']
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2021-05-22 12:21:48	tete_	got it working now, guess i have to use functions like: f <- function() { toString("pi") } f()
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2021-05-22 12:55:28	bjs	dfcnvt: Turing completeness doesn't matter so much,  lots of things are "accidentally" Turing complete
2021-05-22 12:55:37	bjs	and there are arguments for why things you think should be actually aren't.
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2021-05-22 13:06:14	grym	the fun part is "often i want this to NOT be turing complete; less insanity can arise that way"
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2021-05-22 13:37:53	morgandark	why store session data in permanent storage? such as a filesystem or database? the information that is used in a session is typically in the database already... when i used bottle, i used a thread.local session that persisted in memory for as long as the user remained on the web app... the only thing that was written to a cookie was the sid and the jwt which were cryptographically signed. storing the session data in the database,
2021-05-22 13:37:53	morgandark	then storing it in the cookie, and reading that batch of data for every request seems like overkill. the common response to this question is fairly weak at best. so why?
2021-05-22 13:39:10	supakeen	You might want to share session data across multiple frontend servers (running your web application) or you might want it to be persistent across restarts and/or reboots.
2021-05-22 13:39:16	nedbat	morgandark: you can't assume that your webserver process will last as long as the user's session.
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2021-05-22 13:39:35	nedbat	morgandark: and as supakeen says, you might have multiple web application processes
2021-05-22 13:39:40	morgandark	supakeen, thats a database issue, not a session issue...
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2021-05-22 13:40:10	morgandark	if you can read from the database the information to validate the session, then you can create the session in memory for the duration of that users session.
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2021-05-22 13:40:21	morgandark	according to spec, the session should only last up to 1 hour
2021-05-22 13:40:22	nedbat	morgandark: what are you storing in the thread local?
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2021-05-22 13:41:11	morgandark	nedbat, the session is written to the client with a cookie and persists until it expires
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2021-05-22 13:41:41	nedbat	morgandark: so you send the entire session data back and forth with each request?  What is in the thread.local?
2021-05-22 13:41:42	morgandark	depending on how the session is handled, it could persist until expiry, and if the server is down, you can't connect from the client anyways
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2021-05-22 13:42:01	supakeen	morgandark, should you be 'logged out' after the server comes back up?
2021-05-22 13:42:02	morgandark	nedbat, the sid and the jwt
2021-05-22 13:42:06	nedbat	morgandark: it's not that the server is down, it could have restarted, and the data is gone.
2021-05-22 13:42:09	morgandark	nedbat, that's all you really need anyways
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2021-05-22 13:42:30	nedbat	morgandark: do you understand what we mean about multiple web app processes, and processes restarting?
2021-05-22 13:42:37	supakeen	maybe my usecase is a bit different but we have a few hundred webservers that all need access to that session data as a request could end up on any one of them :)
2021-05-22 13:42:53	supakeen	so a local store per server or application wouldn't really work
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2021-05-22 13:44:10	morgandark	nedbat, i understand what a process is
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2021-05-22 13:44:54	nedbat	morgandark: ok, so I could be using your web application, and make two consecutive requests to it, but they would be handled by different processes, so they can't share a thread.local
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2021-05-22 13:46:13	amogorkon	hi, i'm still brainstorming - any ideas how *+-^[] etc. syntax might be useful in the context of imports and modules?
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2021-05-22 13:47:33	morgandark	supakeen, is anything aside from a sid or token stored there?
2021-05-22 13:47:52	morgandark	supakeen, besides ip and datatime info
2021-05-22 13:47:53	nedbat	morgandark: what do you mean by sid? What is that for?
2021-05-22 13:48:04	morgandark	nedbat, session identifier
2021-05-22 13:48:07	supakeen	I assume they mean 'session id' by sid, the nonce used to identify the session.
2021-05-22 13:48:19	nedbat	morgandark: what do you do with that identifier?
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2021-05-22 13:48:29	supakeen	And yes, there's more information in the session than just its identifier.
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2021-05-22 13:49:48	morgandark	nedbat, its a unique value that's generated at when the session is created
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2021-05-22 13:50:04	nedbat	morgandark: ok, and what do you do with it? Why do you need to store it?
2021-05-22 13:50:14	morgandark	nedbat, it's used to identify the client is who it says it is
2021-05-22 13:50:42	nedbat	morgandark: ok, so if the client made a request to a web app process that didn't have that sid in a thread.local, what would happen?
2021-05-22 13:51:09	morgandark	supakeen, so the sessions are stored for scaling purposes in words
2021-05-22 13:51:11	nedbat	morgandark: and: where is that actual identity stored?  in the jwt?
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2021-05-22 13:53:34	morgandark	im just thinking that there could be a way to share the information securely without actually storing it... i just don't like the idea of actually saving the session anywhere. to me, its only use is to id the client while the client is active. but im sure much smarter and more experienced coders have grappled with this already.
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2021-05-22 13:54:15	morgandark	nedbat, i get where you're going with this
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2021-05-22 13:54:47	nedbat	morgandark: the central idea is that web application processes can be transient, and multiple.
2021-05-22 13:54:57	morgandark	nedbat, https://github.com/teleprint-me/canister/blob/master/canister.py
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2021-05-22 13:55:21	morgandark	nedbat, while being thread safe
2021-05-22 13:55:42	morgandark	not the link, but in response to your reference of the central idea being processes being transient
2021-05-22 13:55:54	nedbat	morgandark: yes, thread safety is also important.
2021-05-22 13:56:04	nedbat	is there something i'm supposed to see in that code?
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2021-05-22 13:56:31	morgandark	nedbat, that's the code i refactored for bottle sessions
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2021-05-22 13:56:49	morgandark	nedbat, i used the rfc specs
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2021-05-22 13:57:12	morgandark	nedbat, my implementation could be better, but it was a personal project
2021-05-22 13:57:15	nedbat	morgandark: i'm just not sure if you want me to read something specific in here?
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2021-05-22 13:57:31	meejah	i agree that keeping session things ephemeral is ideal .. but "while the user is active" is kind of ambiguous with web-stuff, no?
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2021-05-22 13:58:13	morgandark	nedbat, you were asking how i would handle the local thread... thats how i handled it.
2021-05-22 13:58:30	morgandark	nedbat, i also understand your point though...
2021-05-22 13:58:39	nedbat	morgandark: i was trying to understand what you were storing in it, and how you would handle multiple processes.
2021-05-22 13:58:42	nedbat	ok
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2021-05-22 13:59:02	supakeen	Or how you invalidate sessions (for example if you want to forcefully log a user out).
2021-05-22 13:59:05	morgandark	meejah, well, the spec says after authentication, the session should timeout and expire at most by 1 hour
2021-05-22 13:59:30	meejah	morgandark: if you don't store it, you can't restart your server (until every user session is expired) .. right?
2021-05-22 13:59:43	morgandark	meejah, so you login, session is created, active while using, timer ticks away, then expires after session has passed, user is logged out
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2021-05-22 14:00:04	morgandark	meejah, that shouldnt matter
2021-05-22 14:00:22	morgandark	supakeen, you revoke and clear the jwt
2021-05-22 14:01:19	supakeen	morgandark, doesn't that mean you will need to store some data to know which jwt's are outstanding so you can revoke one of them? :)
2021-05-22 14:01:21	morgandark	the real problem comes in with scaling and you cant and dont want to share threads because that violates thread safety... so my question was technically answered already and creates a valid reason for storing it.
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2021-05-22 14:02:15	morgandark	supakeen, well, if the session key is cleared from memory, then all user sessions that are connected to that server are invalidated anyways
2021-05-22 14:02:34	morgandark	they would all have to log back in again
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2021-05-22 14:04:09	supakeen	morgandark, yes but that means you log *everyone* out instead of one specific user for example sites often show you a list of your current sessions and you can remove certain ones.
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2021-05-22 14:05:24	supakeen	Anyways let me make my actual point, either you store all data in the cookie (you could use JWT if you do it right) or you just store an identifier and keep all data in another form of persistent storage.
2021-05-22 14:05:35	supakeen	Both have advantages and disadvantages, I've mostly mentioned disadvantages of the former.
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2021-05-22 14:06:09	morgandark	supakeen, what are the advantages?
2021-05-22 14:06:21	morgandark	aside from scaling
2021-05-22 14:06:36	supakeen	The advantages of using a cookie as the storage is that you can validate sessions on your loadbalancers, that it's likely faster (as you don't need to ask a central authority), that sort of thing.
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2021-05-22 14:07:18	nedbat	cookies have a size limit, and people can see what's in their cookie.
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2021-05-22 14:08:10	supakeen	You shouldn't really store secrets in sessions either but it's perfectly valid to encrypt and sign :)
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2021-05-22 14:09:05	morgandark	nedbat, thats another issue. 4096k isnt much and poses a security risk if data is stored there that isn't really necessary
2021-05-22 14:09:11	morgandark	for context, i want to build a web app that handles financial investments and make it open source... i want it to be secure and scalable too... this isnt an example. ive been researching for awhile and recently refacted an api wrapper for that very reason.
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2021-05-22 14:10:41	morgandark	supakeen, thats why i store them server side and use os.random to generate the byte string ;)
2021-05-22 14:11:24	morgandark	supakeen, well, technically, i dont even store it, so if the server goes down, a new key is set
2021-05-22 14:12:04	morgandark	this is okay for lan, but not for the web in prod
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2021-05-22 14:13:57	morgandark	i was looking at https://flask-session.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ and while i was reading the source code, i was surprised to see the session stored in a db
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2021-05-22 14:14:26	supakeen	It's not that surprising as its the easy one to reason about and the 'standard' way of doing it.
2021-05-22 14:14:51	supakeen	I think you throwing away the key each time your application restarts isn't the best experience for any users if they get logged out when that happens :)
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2021-05-22 14:15:42	morgandark	well, if it comes down to risking the key being breached or resetting it, i would rather reset it. again, im thinking from a point of view of securing money.
2021-05-22 14:15:50	morgandark	not just user data
2021-05-22 14:16:04	Peyam	hi
2021-05-22 14:16:09	Peyam	I was so drunk yestarday
2021-05-22 14:16:25	Peyam	I took a taxi for second time in my life
2021-05-22 14:16:27	supakeen	morgandark, but that doesn't change a thing because if you *dont* restart the application you still have the same key and the key can be 'breached'.
2021-05-22 14:16:42	supakeen	Peyam, this channel isn't for social chat that's #python-offtopic :)
2021-05-22 14:17:26	morgandark	supakeen, fair point... i hadnt thought of that
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2021-05-22 14:18:12	morgandark	and cycling through new keys wouldnt help either because that would also invalidate other user sessions
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2021-05-22 14:18:24	morgandark	ugh... web apps are hard lol
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2021-05-22 14:19:43	morgandark	i was looking at krakens user session and it has been one of the more secure user sessions ive seen... they dont skimp out anywhere either and in most cases force you to sign back in if necessary
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2021-05-22 14:20:10	morgandark	coinbase uses the 'standard' 30 day session along with 2fa
2021-05-22 14:20:18	morgandark	same with robinhood
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2021-05-22 14:21:00	morgandark	still have to check others...
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2021-05-22 14:29:55	Peyam	is there website where there are dummy lists and dictionaries and sets?
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2021-05-22 14:30:56	Peyam	list a dummy list of size n?
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2021-05-22 14:32:46	morgandark	Peyam, are you requesting it or looking for something interactive thats online?
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2021-05-22 14:33:12	morgandark	Peyam, i.e., using requests to handle requests and responses
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2021-05-22 14:33:38	Peyam	I just dont want to manually write a list of 40 elements
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2021-05-22 14:33:59	bjs	Peyam: use Python to generate one:  [random.random() for _ in range(40)]
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2021-05-22 14:34:18	Peyam	haha bjs you make me feel so stupid
2021-05-22 14:34:22	Angs	I'd like to download a file from a https link (~60 MB). What module is the better (performance, reliability, or another reason) to use? I see examples that use requests, urllib, tqdm, wget. I am not so familiar with python, I wonder which one would be a better practice to use?
2021-05-22 14:35:12	Wulf	Angs: requests or httpx
2021-05-22 14:35:42	Angs	Wulf, is there any reason why you would prefer requests over other options?
2021-05-22 14:35:59	qwerty1793	Hi, does anyone know any good tutorial explaining how python's import process works? I know that importlib has a number of Finders that it can use to find a suitable Loader to load the requested module (either from builtins, sourceless, file, regestry etc.) but I cant figure out how specs and importlib.find_spec fit into the picture
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2021-05-22 14:36:36	Wulf	Angs: wget isn't python. tqdm is a progress bar, urllib is awkward to use.
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2021-05-22 14:37:18	Angs	Wulf, thanks
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2021-05-22 14:38:41	morgandark	qwerty1793, https://docs.python.org/3.8/reference/import.html
2021-05-22 14:40:03	morgandark	qwerty1793, the have example code in there too
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2021-05-22 14:57:05	Peyam	bjs, where do you live?
2021-05-22 14:57:21	amogorkon	o.O
2021-05-22 14:57:45	Peyam	I would love to offer him a job in Sweden :P
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2021-05-22 15:00:08	amogorkon	what's the most pythonic way to async check if a file has changed on linux and win?
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2021-05-22 15:00:59	supakeen	Mrm, I don't know if there's a library wrapping the normal APIs for that but it would be possible asynchronously.
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2021-05-22 15:01:51	amogorkon	i know it's a tricky OS-dependent problem, i'll just check the OS and go from there
2021-05-22 15:02:08	amogorkon	but how to proceed async?
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2021-05-22 15:03:53	amogorkon	i always can fall back to checking periodically, but that's not really elegant
2021-05-22 15:03:59	tete_	amogorkon, for linux you can use inotify
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2021-05-22 15:04:07	teut	is it possible to create only time objects instead of datetime objects?
2021-05-22 15:04:31	teut	I need to check if datetime.now().time <   3 o clock
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2021-05-22 15:05:30	amogorkon	if you're careful about timezones, that's doable
2021-05-22 15:05:46	amogorkon	don't mix naive and aware times
2021-05-22 15:05:56	teut	i m using django
2021-05-22 15:06:08	teut	so that takes care of that
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2021-05-22 15:06:57	morgandark	amogorkon, https://pythonhosted.org/watchdog/
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2021-05-22 15:07:09	amogorkon	okay, thanks for inotify, is there something in the stdlib that can do something like that?
2021-05-22 15:07:15	morgandark	im not sure if its os dep tho
2021-05-22 15:07:18	teut	timezone(day=1, month=1, year=2021, hour=15, minute=0, seconds=0).hours
2021-05-22 15:07:35	teut	like I can compare this to the current time
2021-05-22 15:08:05	morgandark	amogorkon, nvm, watchdog is cross-platform
2021-05-22 15:08:09	huhuhu	I am looking for advice. I would like to write a program that recognizes the words I am speaking and, upon recognition, executes a command on the system.
2021-05-22 15:08:10	teut	but the thing is that this hour=15  i e, 3 pm   needs to be set by the Admin user
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2021-05-22 15:09:47	amogorkon	huhuhu, that's, like, a billion dollar question
2021-05-22 15:09:52	morgandark	teut, doesnt datetime allow you to create your own datetime objects?
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2021-05-22 15:09:57	ChrisWarrick	teut: okay, store this time in the database?
2021-05-22 15:10:27	teut	I m using a global variable for that
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2021-05-22 15:11:09	huhuhu	I don't have a billion dollars.
2021-05-22 15:11:13	teut	database, well I will have to think
2021-05-22 15:11:46	ChrisWarrick	teut: an admin user can’t set global variables
2021-05-22 15:11:57	morgandark	teut, you could just create a time object using datetime.time, https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#time-objects
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2021-05-22 15:12:02	ChrisWarrick	teut: an admin user can put stuff in the database
2021-05-22 15:12:03	amogorkon	huhuhu, it's about the amount of money big tech companies have been investing over many years into this question
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2021-05-22 15:12:27	teut	yes, but this data is not uniform
2021-05-22 15:12:37	amogorkon	huhuhu, do you have a specific problem you want to solve with this?
2021-05-22 15:12:51	teut	https://bpa.st/YWKQ
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2021-05-22 15:13:46	teut	the CLOSING_TIMES is a list of tuples of datetime objects here
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2021-05-22 15:14:14	teut	the form data wont be saved if the date that the user selects lies between this interval
2021-05-22 15:14:31	teut	the admin has to set these date schedules
2021-05-22 15:14:44	teut	not you only tell if database is needed
2021-05-22 15:14:49	amogorkon	huhuhu, if you have a single cmd or so you want to execute, it might be doable
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2021-05-22 15:16:04	morgandark	teut, is that for a order book?
2021-05-22 15:16:17	teut	for shares purchase sell
2021-05-22 15:17:06	amogorkon	huhuhu, if you want to go general-purpose you might want to look into alexa API or something similar
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2021-05-22 15:17:15	morgandark	teut, the exchange will handle that window for you usually... idk tbh, im not sure what youre trying to do here. the order book usually handles the queue for matching trades for you, so i guess thats why im confused
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2021-05-22 15:17:25	huhuhu	amogorkon, I could compare two audio files and do something like that based on it. But how? After all, I have to recognize if the audio data is a word. When does it begin and when it ends.
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2021-05-22 15:18:02	teut	queue?
2021-05-22 15:18:13	teut	do I need to use a queue?
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2021-05-22 15:18:42	teut	there are multiple User types here
2021-05-22 15:18:51	amogorkon	huhuhu, https://realpython.com/python-speech-recognition/
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2021-05-22 15:19:02	teut	An Employee, an admin, Relatives
2021-05-22 15:19:06	huhuhu	amogorkon, Are there any libraries in Python to play with audio?
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2021-05-22 15:19:09	morgandark	teut, when im trading, i can usually see a order book depending on the exchange. most api's even include accessing this as a stream for you. when the order is executed, it responds with a timestamp for you
2021-05-22 15:19:09	teut	Employees*
2021-05-22 15:19:50	teut	yes that is the second thing that I have to do
2021-05-22 15:19:56	huhuhu	amogorkon, thank You :)
2021-05-22 15:20:27	amogorkon	huhuhu, you're welcome, but it's just the beginning, there is a *lot* of stuff
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2021-05-22 15:20:43	morgandark	teut, in your code, you're manually handling what the order book already does for you. and in most cases it will respond with a timestamp once the order is executed.
2021-05-22 15:20:56	teut	I have subclassed  User   in my code
2021-05-22 15:21:03	teut	django's default User
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2021-05-22 15:21:36	teut	there is no API here
2021-05-22 15:21:45	morgandark	teut, i feel confused. i guess a better question is what is it that your trying to accomplish here?
2021-05-22 15:21:49	ChrisWarrick	teut: why does the subclassing matter?
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2021-05-22 15:22:34	teut	so lets say you are a customer(modelled as Relative) ,  and you want to buy shares
2021-05-22 15:22:43	ChrisWarrick	teut: you have multiple user subclasses?
2021-05-22 15:22:48	teut	yes
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2021-05-22 15:23:13	teut	class Admin(User),   class Relative(User)
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2021-05-22 15:23:55	teut	you will only be able to buy shares if the current datetime is not in closing times
2021-05-22 15:24:05	teut	that CLOSING_TIMES
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2021-05-22 15:24:14	ChrisWarrick	teut: this is going to be a huge mess
2021-05-22 15:24:20	ChrisWarrick	teut: don’t use subclassing for user permissions
2021-05-22 15:24:21	teut	why so?
2021-05-22 15:24:43	ChrisWarrick	teut: you’ll end up with two database tables for users, two groups of IDs for users, all in all - an unmanageable and broken mess
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2021-05-22 15:24:56	ChrisWarrick	teut: django has a fairly reasonable permissions system
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2021-05-22 15:25:12	morgandark	ChrisWarrick, that can be mitigated a with a nosql setup
2021-05-22 15:25:16	teut	ya someone told me this use permissions, but then after switching code back and forth 6 months ago , I finally found that this was best
2021-05-22 15:25:17	ChrisWarrick	morgandark: nonsense
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2021-05-22 15:25:34	ChrisWarrick	teut: do you have any objects owned by a user? how do you handle that?
2021-05-22 15:26:18	ChrisWarrick	morgandark: django requires a relational database, and nosql databases cause more problems than they solve
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2021-05-22 15:27:15	teut	https://bpa.st/F64A
2021-05-22 15:27:19	morgandark	im still trying to understand what the goal is here lol... im not worried about user classes and tiered session rn...
2021-05-22 15:27:28	teut	i dont know what that means
2021-05-22 15:28:19	ChrisWarrick	teut: uh, that feels like super broken design with data duplication
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2021-05-22 15:28:54	teut	the admin has to manage all these users, he can add , remove users, so there is too much interaction between all these users
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2021-05-22 15:29:31	teut	the employees can add  remove the relatives,  create an account for their relatives
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2021-05-22 15:29:54	teut	I already spend 6 months on this last summer
2021-05-22 15:29:55	ChrisWarrick	teut: To fix your original problem: create a ClosingTimes entity, store a start and end time as TimeFields, query the ClosingTimes entity when you need to, and do the filtering
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2021-05-22 15:30:43	morgandark	ChrisWarrick, i would say the database implementation is wholly design dependent. nosql does help with scaling and rdbms are useful in vertical scaling... its rigid. i would say neither are really superior to the other and is totally context dependent.
2021-05-22 15:31:12	teut	and what to do about the constraint that  portal should only allow purchase if  current time < 3 pm
2021-05-22 15:31:13	teut	?
2021-05-22 15:31:25	teut	this 3 pm will also be put by the admin
2021-05-22 15:31:38	teut	through the gui/html
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2021-05-22 15:32:17	teut	this data can't be put in that entity that you are talking about
2021-05-22 15:32:29	teut	so another table for a single attribute?
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2021-05-22 15:34:17	hogarius	teut: 3 p.m. would be the scheduled time for the transaction?
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2021-05-22 15:36:23	teut	yes
2021-05-22 15:36:36	amogorkon	am i correct in my assumption that with mod = imp.new_module(name); exec(compile(code, name, "exec"), mod.__dict__), i could initialize the module globals before actually executing the code and importing it?
2021-05-22 15:36:36	teut	no trasactions are allowed beyond 3
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2021-05-22 15:37:31	amogorkon	or is there some caveat i'm missing?
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2021-05-22 15:38:57	teut	I was thinking to make a file SIDE_EFFECTS.py and define some globals which can be changed at runtime, by the admin,   don't globals work that way, i.e, the admin modifies them and then the next customer will face the new rules
2021-05-22 15:39:30	teut	otherwise using tables for everything, I m not very familiar woth that idea
2021-05-22 15:39:33	teut	with*
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2021-05-22 15:40:34	morgandark	teut, as far as users go, you should have a base class for a simple user interface. the rest of the users can inherit from that base class. theres nothing wrong with that because it reduces duplicate code. just make sure the users have methods that handle their respective rights.
2021-05-22 15:41:03	teut	ya and that's named as User
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2021-05-22 15:41:15	teut	that's derived from AbstractBaseUser
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2021-05-22 15:43:01	morgandark	teut, im still lost on what youre trying to do though... just a simple explanation on the end goal
2021-05-22 15:43:28	morgandark	what do you want the app to do? what is its purpose and use?
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2021-05-22 15:44:24	teut	thannks ChrisWarrick , I just realised, the datetimes can be completely put by the Admin, ie date and time. Maybe he'll have to do extra work  but good for him
2021-05-22 15:44:39	teut	so I can follow your table suggestion
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2021-05-22 15:44:46	amogorkon	what's the simplest way of turning a file into a bytes object?
2021-05-22 15:44:56	teut	bytes(f)
2021-05-22 15:45:03	teut	amogorkon
2021-05-22 15:45:40	amogorkon	thanks, but it seems that doesn't work in my cae
2021-05-22 15:45:42	amogorkon	s
2021-05-22 15:46:07	teut	BytesIO.read()
2021-05-22 15:46:12	teut	read(f)
2021-05-22 15:46:18	teut	then getvalue()
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2021-05-22 15:46:50	bjs	amogorkon: a bytes object is immutable whereas a file is a mutable thing
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2021-05-22 15:47:00	bjs	amogorkon: so... read the file in bytes mode?
2021-05-22 15:47:26	amogorkon	i did open the file in "rb"
2021-05-22 15:47:27	amogorkon	exec(compile(file, name, "exec"), mod.__dict__)
2021-05-22 15:47:27	amogorkon	TypeError: compile() arg 1 must be a string, bytes or AST object
2021-05-22 15:47:28	teut	do you know about  "wb"  ?
2021-05-22 15:47:36	amogorkon	doesn't work..
2021-05-22 15:47:38	bjs	amogorkon: files have a read method
2021-05-22 15:47:55	amogorkon	ohhh, how could i forget
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2021-05-22 15:48:01	amogorkon	ha!
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2021-05-22 15:48:04	amogorkon	nice :p
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2021-05-22 15:48:10	amogorkon	now we're talking
2021-05-22 15:48:16	morgandark	with open('filename.ext', 'wb') as file: file.read()
2021-05-22 15:48:26	amogorkon	yeah, don't need write access
2021-05-22 15:48:41	morgandark	amogorkon, its just an example
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2021-05-22 15:50:32	amogorkon	holy crap, it works :)
2021-05-22 15:50:38	amogorkon	exactly as i thought
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2021-05-22 15:51:14	amogorkon	injecting module-globals before importing is a piece of cake
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2021-05-22 15:51:49	teut	btw,    to which module  ClosedDates  belong to  , Admin's models.py or  Relatives's models.py   ChrisWarrick?
2021-05-22 15:52:08	teut	class ClosedDates :   start =    ;   end =
2021-05-22 15:52:23	teut	a models.Model
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2021-05-22 15:53:16	teut	a major confusion which I face always when type types of objects are accessing a resource
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2021-05-22 15:53:34	teut	many types*
2021-05-22 15:54:04	amogorkon	this really works.. no more jumping through hoops and passing around references backwards
2021-05-22 15:54:10	amogorkon	neat.
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2021-05-22 15:55:45	amogorkon	bjs should be made into a clippy AI
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2021-05-22 15:56:08	amogorkon	immortalized
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2021-05-22 15:56:23	bjs	amogorkon: to be fair, remembering that files have a read method is not something that required me
2021-05-22 15:56:25	bjs	i just happened to be here
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2021-05-22 15:57:51	amogorkon	true
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2021-05-22 15:59:46	Saradt	Hi Humanoids!! .. I have multiple dataset with a timestamp, and a list of enumerable values. What would be a good graph choice for graphing the "change in which enum values were there"? It's not just one value per timestamp, there might be multiple.
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2021-05-22 16:00:34	mefistofeles	Saradt: how many different value options are there?
2021-05-22 16:01:04	Saradt	depending on dataset, between 3 and 10.
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2021-05-22 16:01:18	mefistofeles	so I guess you could do something like vertical axis with value and horizontal with time
2021-05-22 16:01:25	mefistofeles	some kind of timeline basically
2021-05-22 16:01:35	Saradt	So, a line if it was there, and no line if it was not?
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2021-05-22 16:02:31	Saradt	This was something I considered. A horizontal line per value, and a line to indicate presence or not. I guess it's worth a try.
2021-05-22 16:03:58	mefistofeles	Saradt: https://i0.wp.com/flowingdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Story-Curves.png
2021-05-22 16:04:04	mefistofeles	something like the bottom part of that one
2021-05-22 16:04:36	Saradt	Oh yeah, more like bars than lines. That's a good idea. Thanks mefistofeles. I'll give that a try.
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2021-05-22 16:29:39	nubonix	was hoping for some help with client side websockets (websockets secure) code + traceback https://bpa.st/JY3A
2021-05-22 16:29:57	nubonix	i can create a connection, but i keep getting disconnected
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2021-05-22 16:30:27	nubonix	im copying the messages that im sending via the browser to the websocket, and recreating them in python
2021-05-22 16:30:29	<--	stree (~stree@68.36.8.116) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-22 16:30:44	nubonix	but seems im still doing something wrong
2021-05-22 16:31:09	nubonix	was able to do this with another secure websocket... that is really really similar... but seems im missing something with this one
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2021-05-22 16:34:48	IoannisJVM	Hello,i have this function https://dpaste.org/intK
2021-05-22 16:34:54	IoannisJVM	that returns a list
2021-05-22 16:35:08	IoannisJVM	how can i iterate over each object of the list?
2021-05-22 16:35:23	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: for ems in get_EMS():
2021-05-22 16:35:32	IoannisJVM	all the methods that i tried return me just a list as a single obkjc
2021-05-22 16:35:37	IoannisJVM	object(
2021-05-22 16:35:40	amogorkon	this importlib stuff is utterly confusing. with imp.new_module getting deprecated for importlib.util.module_from_spec(spec), how could i set its module globals before it is actually executed?
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2021-05-22 16:36:47	IoannisJVM	KirkMcDonald still i'm getting a single object
2021-05-22 16:36:48	amogorkon	with imp.new_module it works (except, somehow i accidentally worked around its __dict__ being read-only earlier)
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2021-05-22 16:38:46	amogorkon	do i have to build a custom loader now?
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2021-05-22 16:43:35	nubonix	ah... seems auth isnt valid for some reason
2021-05-22 16:44:11	amogorkon	god, there's sooo much getting deprecated around the import machinery, it's hard to track down what you *can* use..
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2021-05-22 16:51:29	amogorkon	where can i find the implementation of "import _imp  # Just the builtin component, NOT the full Python module"?
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2021-05-22 16:58:01	ChrisWarrick	amogorkon: most likely in impmodule.c
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2021-05-22 17:00:39	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: It is not clear to me what you mean.
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2021-05-22 17:01:38	amogorkon	ChrisWarrick, no luck.. nvm, i'll just focus on what i have, disregard deprecation warnings and get it to work for 3.8 for now
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2021-05-22 17:03:17	amogorkon	it looks like 3/4 of all import stuff is slated for deprecation in 3.11 code now
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2021-05-22 17:04:23	amogorkon	so whatever i do to make it work now, i'll have change it in the future probably anyways
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2021-05-22 17:07:22	IoannisJVM	KirkMcDonald i can't loop through each element of the list
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2021-05-22 17:07:49	BrenBarn	Can you show an example of your code and what its doing and what you want it to do instead
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2021-05-22 17:10:12	Angs	I'd like to create a data type/structure to store a string and integer (typedef{ char *string, int counter}foo; in C}. It will store a unique string and integer value how many time it is used on a large file (50+ million lines). I will use the data type as a dynamic array (append new data) and it would be heavily used in searches. What data type/struct would be the best for the performance (speed)? Would it be the best to use data classes with array
2021-05-22 17:10:12	Angs	or list?
2021-05-22 17:11:04	amogorkon	Angs, do you need to modify the string and integer or is that fixed?
2021-05-22 17:11:16	amogorkon	within that data struct
2021-05-22 17:11:19	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: What are you trying, and in what way is it failing?
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2021-05-22 17:12:40	amogorkon	Angs, what you want sounds like a tuple to me, but if since tuples are immutable, you'd need to work around that
2021-05-22 17:12:43	Angs	amogorkon, I'd only need to update the integer value (counter). String would remain constant, but I'd use the string to compare the new entry within the array/list if it exists
2021-05-22 17:12:51	IoannisJVM	KirkMcDonald i need to get the id of each object from the list
2021-05-22 17:13:04	amogorkon	Angs, you could build a class with __slots__
2021-05-22 17:13:15	BrenBarn	@Angs: how are you going to use this array?
2021-05-22 17:13:28	BrenBarn	like do you need to look things up via the string or what?
2021-05-22 17:13:40	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: I mean, presumably you have some code? And it is giving some output which is other than what you expect?
2021-05-22 17:13:44	amogorkon	then you can update freely the counter and it's reasonably lightweight
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2021-05-22 17:14:53	Angs	BrenBarn, yes my code would be reading a very large text file (list), and then it will start from line 1, if the text is not on the list, then it will add it to the array. If the code finds the string, then it will increase the counter.
2021-05-22 17:15:17	BrenBarn	I mean one way to do that is not use an array of structs at all, just use a dictionary directly
2021-05-22 17:15:19	Angs	it would be searching and comparing the string array/list all the time
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2021-05-22 17:15:27	BrenBarn	or defaultdict or Counter
2021-05-22 17:15:36	Akuli	can someone recommend a guide for distributing a python wrapper to a c library on pypi?
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2021-05-22 17:15:58	Akuli	not assuming that everyone have a working c compiler
2021-05-22 17:16:04	Angs	since I'd be dealing with a very large file, performance would be important
2021-05-22 17:16:05	amogorkon	BrenBarn, that's a good idea, Counter is pretty much what Angs is looking for
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2021-05-22 17:16:46	IoannisJVM	KirkMcDonald https://dpaste.org/f4Cy here's the code,it might help you
2021-05-22 17:16:48	Akuli	i can figure out how to run the builds on github actions, but like what commands to use for uploading it all etc?
2021-05-22 17:16:54	amogorkon	Angs, https://docs.python.org/3/library/collections.html#collections.Counter
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2021-05-22 17:17:29	Angs	amogorkon, BrenBarn. Thanks a lot I will read further about it.
2021-05-22 17:17:30	BrenBarn	you're returning inside the loop, which ends your function
2021-05-22 17:17:36	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: You are returning the first id.
2021-05-22 17:17:40	BrenBarn	(Ioannis)
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2021-05-22 17:18:24	IoannisJVM	yeah,i need to return the id of each object
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2021-05-22 17:19:29	BrenBarn	a function can only return one thing
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2021-05-22 17:19:36	BrenBarn	if you want to return all IDs, build up a list of the IDs and then return that
2021-05-22 17:19:54	amogorkon	you can return multiple things as a tuple
2021-05-22 17:20:01	Angs	one last quick question, I am using this code snippet to read the file and process it line by line to use memory more efficiently. I wonder if you see a better way to do it. https://pastebin.com/N3wMqcme
2021-05-22 17:20:07	infobob	https://bpaste.net/Z65Q (repasted for Angs)
2021-05-22 17:20:24	amogorkon	sometimes i build a custom namedtuple for function returns as a kind of API
2021-05-22 17:20:43	amogorkon	Result = nametuple..
2021-05-22 17:20:46	BrenBarn	a tuple is one thing :-)
2021-05-22 17:20:48	amogorkon	named*
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2021-05-22 17:21:35	amogorkon	and then there is yield :p
2021-05-22 17:21:45	amogorkon	but that's a whole different discussion
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2021-05-22 17:38:41	KirkMcDonald	IoannisJVM: When you return, the function ends. So I'm not clear on what this would mean.
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2021-05-22 17:46:13	bjs	maybe `yield` instead of return is exactly what IoannisJVM is looking for
2021-05-22 17:46:39	bjs	IoannisJVM: why not make another list of ids and return that list? (or use yield). does that achieve what you want?
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2021-05-22 18:02:08	IoannisJVM	@bjs
2021-05-22 18:02:37	IoannisJVM	bjs then i need to map each id with each id of objects of another list
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2021-05-22 18:02:38	IoannisJVM	in a dict
2021-05-22 18:03:57	bjs	IoannisJVM: well, you need to decide *What* you want this iter_over_the_list to do
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2021-05-22 18:04:50	bjs	IoannisJVM: it can only return 1 thing (and guessing from the @app.route in your example, I guess it's supposed to return some kind of http result).  You need to decide what you want in it
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2021-05-22 18:37:25	greyblue9	amogorkon: regarding importlib/imp/_imp/implib deprecation treadmill: *facepalm*
2021-05-22 18:37:45	amogorkon	heh
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2021-05-22 18:38:12	amogorkon	at least it feels like i'm getting *somewhere* now
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2021-05-22 18:39:38	amogorkon	it's a minefield though, need to tread very carefully
2021-05-22 18:39:43	greyblue9	how long till you join the dark side and just use ctypes :p
2021-05-22 18:39:58	amogorkon	:p
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2021-05-22 18:40:40	greyblue9	AKA mappingproxy-begone
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2021-05-22 18:44:27	greyblue9	i've never looked back, haha
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2021-05-22 18:48:39	greyblue9	startup is the other thing they can't leave alone
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2021-05-22 18:50:43	amogorkon	well, once i got this sorted out, it should be possible to pass arbitrary module globals into an about-to-be-imported module, which irked me for a long while
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2021-05-22 18:52:24	amogorkon	i got it working for simple modules, but the devil's in the details
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2021-05-22 18:53:26	amogorkon	it's funky to have a module that only contains "print(a)" with no definition of a :p
2021-05-22 18:55:02	amogorkon	i've also got an internal dependency graph in mind, tracing the context of use() so it's possible to track back
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2021-05-22 18:57:46	amogorkon	which i think will be very useful if someone actually wanted to use online sources
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2021-05-22 19:02:22	amogorkon	while i regard online sources mostly as proof-of-concept, the problem with passing globals into about-to-be-imported modules is an issue that surfaces once in a while
2021-05-22 19:04:20	amogorkon	i guess any larger project has to deal with that
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2021-05-22 19:07:19	amogorkon	if it's possible to pass in module-globals on import, many diamond-import scenarios can probably resolved quite easily
2021-05-22 19:07:28	amogorkon	be*
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2021-05-22 19:59:19	greyblue9	amogorkon: good problem to have a solution for tho
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2021-05-22 20:00:39	greyblue9	in fact, it might be worth doing a gist or something with just that, I could see other uses for it
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2021-05-22 20:06:49	greyblue9	just making sure I follow, this is before the module gets exec'ed, and you can set module-globals into its namespace
2021-05-22 20:11:17	greyblue9	amogorkon: ah, now I see why you were bringing up the AST before
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2021-05-22 20:18:15	greyblue9	guess everyone is asleep :p
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2021-05-22 21:01:37	cluelessperson_	greyblue9, hi
2021-05-22 21:01:43	cluelessperson_	what are you asking?
2021-05-22 21:02:28	cluelessperson_	module globals?    well in a   module1.py   if you have  a = 1   then do.   import module1    you'll have access to module1.a  yes
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2021-05-22 21:03:21	greyblue9	nothing, I was just noticing it was quiet for a couple hours 'cept for amogorkon and me. but thanks for volunteering :)
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2021-05-22 21:06:31	greyblue9	 cluelessperson_ : it's appreciated
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2021-05-22 21:26:46	cluelessperson_	greyblue9, well, that's just how variables are communicated in general, especially constants like that.
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2021-05-22 21:31:12	greyblue9	 cluelessperson_: I suppose I'm more interested in, say, pre-populating some variables of module1, say ''a', so if you were to import module1 and it then accessed globals() (from module1.py) it would see 'a'
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2021-05-22 21:31:47	nedbat	greyblue9: in module1.py, put:   a = 1
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2021-05-22 21:33:21	greyblue9	well, it would be ideal to use module1 unmodified, like perhaps it's a third-party module
2021-05-22 21:34:24	greyblue9	i admit it might seem like a weird use-case
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2021-05-22 21:35:51	greyblue9	like you know you can import and alter builtins'
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2021-05-22 21:36:40	greyblue9	that would have the effect on everything you import and your own program's namespace though if I'm not mistaken
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2021-05-22 21:39:34	greyblue9	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/57dYxi8H
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2021-05-22 21:41:16	nedbat	greyblue9: you can do:  import module1;  module1.a = 1
2021-05-22 21:42:20	greyblue9	 nedbat yea, that would be a way
2021-05-22 21:42:54	greyblue9	I probably overthought it
2021-05-22 21:44:28	greyblue9	ok i remember the issue now, the problem there is that when you do your assignment, module1's code is done executing
2021-05-22 21:45:31	greyblue9	maybe the answer is "don't do that" :p
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2021-05-22 21:47:11	nedbat	greyblue9: why is it a problem that the code is done? (btw, using my nick will get my attention)
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2021-05-22 21:51:02	greyblue9	nedbat: why indeed.. let me give that one some thought
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2021-05-22 21:54:10	greyblue9	the application is for dependency injection/package import type sort of "helper/glue code"
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2021-05-22 21:55:52	greyblue9	nedbat: still owe you a better answer but that gives you a preview
2021-05-22 21:56:08	nedbat	greyblue9: ok
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2021-05-22 21:56:28	justanotheruser	Hi, I'm in pyqt5 trying to apply an HTMLDelegate to a QListWidget. Problem is, the size hint appears to be based on the raw text rather than the rich text. I know this because `<p foo="aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa">text</p>` has much greater width when rendered than `<p foo="aaa">text</p>` despite the rendered object being of the same size. How can I set the sizeHint based on the /rendered/ html?
2021-05-22 21:56:30	justanotheruser	Here is my delegate class https://privatebin.net/?57b9d3043ea03f69#C7ziMVavoZGpGCxSZtKp8CHU3KTcRwsYAy7VxaLfM5sE
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2021-05-22 21:58:29	justanotheruser	seems the solution must involve looking at the size of the rendered object, but there doesn't appear to be a guarantee self.paint is called before self.sizeHint?
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2021-05-22 22:02:04	greyblue9	justanotheruser: do you know what sets self.width?
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2021-05-22 22:21:52	greyblue9	At the bottom of this page there is a similar snippet for rendering an HTML-displaying widget, and they've provided a special sizeHint() - maybe that could give some ideas?
2021-05-22 22:21:56	greyblue9	https://newbedev.com/how-to-make-item-view-render-rich-html-text-in-qt
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2021-05-22 22:38:05	ranran8888	hi i need transfer csv file from server to server how the easy way ? i try use pystp I was unable to install the package on the server
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2021-05-22 22:46:48	meejah	ranran8888: "scp" probably
2021-05-22 22:47:32	ranran8888	its k i think i can setup sftp but i work fast and make stupid and destroit my server :x
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2021-05-22 23:21:23	ByteChanger	Hi everyone!
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2021-05-22 23:23:24	ByteChanger	First off, I'm not a python programmer.  I found a script that works great, but I'd like to modify it a bit.
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2021-05-22 23:24:53	ByteChanger	It runs through a file looking for a group tag, and prompts you to write a output file containing that group.  You can add multiple groups by keep pressing Y to add, or you could add just one group by pressing Y and then N 30 times.
2021-05-22 23:25:32	ByteChanger	I'd like it to just create a file for each group without prompting me 31 times.
2021-05-22 23:26:14	ByteChanger	I tried to get it working, but ran into a problem...
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2021-05-22 23:26:44	ByteChanger	I pasted it here: https://pastebin.com/YGwa7fsy
2021-05-22 23:26:46	infobob	https://bpaste.net/3VNQ (repasted for ByteChanger)
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2021-05-22 23:29:41	voldial	I have a HTML file with some inline CSS, (a GET reponse), and I want to know if a element has CSS rules that apply to it. What's the right tool? selenium?
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2021-05-22 23:34:27	jamea77	hi all
2021-05-22 23:34:44	jamea77	how to export... all librarys config from python Pc1 to pc2?
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2021-05-22 23:52:23	maum	hello
2021-05-22 23:52:42	maum	Is there a way to auto resize button in tkinter?
2021-05-22 23:52:53	maum	I used Grid()
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2021-05-23 00:34:05	justanotheruser	greyblue9: no. I've also tried doc_layout_size.width() and doc.idealWidth()
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2021-05-23 01:28:57	Evidlo	anyone have any idea why I'm getting an error about position arguments here? https://termbin.com/4l0s
2021-05-23 01:29:16	Evidlo	as far as I can tell, _parsereport() is being called with the correct number of args
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2021-05-23 01:39:26	greyblue9	Evidlo: what is the type of 'sc' there?
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2021-05-23 01:41:27	Evidlo	its a 'pykeepass.kdbx_parsing.common.DynamicDict': https://github.com/libkeepass/pykeepass/blob/master/pykeepass/kdbx_parsing/common.py#L35
2021-05-23 01:41:37	Evidlo	which is derived from construct's Adapter: https://github.com/construct/construct/blob/master/construct/core.py#L694
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2021-05-23 01:42:30	Evidlo	so it goes DynamicDict -> Adapter -> Subconstruct -> Construct, and _parsereport() is defined in Construct
2021-05-23 01:43:59	Evidlo	pretty sure there is only one _parsereport() defined anywhere in the code. in the Construct class
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2021-05-23 01:45:56	Evidlo	actually, I think I might not be setting the breakpoint in the right way.  one second
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2021-05-23 01:53:12	Evidlo	ok, I seem to be doing everything right: https://termbin.com/gpvw
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2021-05-23 01:53:44	Evidlo	I've even directly checked the positional arguments of sc._parsereport and it seems right
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2021-05-23 02:41:48	gtristan	Is cpython supposed to be reproducible, given a build environment conducive to reproducibility ? (i.e. guaranteed same build paths, guaranteed exact same set of dependencies, where dependencies include compiler versions, etc)
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2021-05-23 02:43:00	gtristan	I'm aware that pyc file timestamping has been corrected for this purpose for the sake of reproducible python code builds, but I mean the cpython build itself
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2021-05-23 02:43:59	gitesh_	Hi python. How is one object is passed to another? -----> https://bpa.st/NE6Q
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2021-05-23 02:44:54	gitesh_	does that mean access?
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2021-05-23 02:45:44	gitesh_	is not it sounds vice versa that master object is passed to ummm... i guess ?
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2021-05-23 02:46:04	gitesh_	but they are calling it constructor.............. so what is constructor anyways?
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2021-05-23 03:29:19	greyblue9	Evidlo: Well, the signature being called there is `parsereport(self, stream, context, path)` and the call is `sc._parsereport(stream, context, path)` so the fact that it's still 1 parameter short makes me think that for some reason sc._parsereport is not a bound function/method (e.g. needs 'self' passed as first argument explicitly) - could you check if sc._parsereport has a __self__ or not?
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2021-05-23 03:31:52	greyblue9	you could also pass sc as the first parameter and see what details you get from the `TypeError`.
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2021-05-23 03:35:03	greyblue9	with a type hierarchy of that size, no way to know without just getting your hands dirty :p
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2021-05-23 04:09:12	Andy_Kw	salut
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2021-05-23 04:09:59	Andy_Kw	petite question : j'ai des valeurs que je souhaite mettre dans une liste, mais des valeurs dynamiques
2021-05-23 04:10:06	Andy_Kw	j'ai tenté cela `spent_time_by_op_results.append(f"[{val_car},{val_interv},{time_load}]")`
2021-05-23 04:10:31	Andy_Kw	sauf que le f string me donne non pas une liste mais une string
2021-05-23 04:10:40	supakeen	I think you'd find more French speakers in #python-fr, we try to speak English here :)
2021-05-23 04:11:31	Andy_Kw	sorry. I thought it was the french python channel
2021-05-23 04:11:32	supakeen	But if my French is good enough I think you want to do `spent_time_by_op_results.append(f"....")`, or `.append([f"..."])` the brackets go outside the string.
2021-05-23 04:12:01	Andy_Kw	supakeen exactly, let's switch to english
2021-05-23 04:12:07	nanonyme	It looks a bit weird to have single-element lists
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2021-05-23 04:12:38	supakeen	It does which is why I was like 'maybe the mean extend' but extend with a 1-length list is funky.
2021-05-23 04:13:03	supakeen	Paraphrasing the question is 'the f-string doesnt give me a list but a string?'
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2021-05-23 04:13:27	Andy_Kw	nanonyme I wanted to have dictionnaries in my list initially but well I don't know how to do this
2021-05-23 04:13:42	Andy_Kw	this is my results, folks : `['[1,1,00:20:00]', '[1,2,01:10:00]', '[2,1,00:25:00]', '[2,2,01:40:00]', '[3,1,00:29:00]', '[3,2,01:55:00]']`
2021-05-23 04:13:56	supakeen	Let's get back to the real question then.
2021-05-23 04:14:01	nanonyme	Andy_Kw, what is the desired result? Would you want to have a string or the items inside the list?
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2021-05-23 04:14:06	supakeen	Why not put a dictionary in the list :)
2021-05-23 04:14:34	supakeen	`yourlist.append({"car": val_car, "interval": val_interv", "time": time_load})` for example
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2021-05-23 04:15:03	nanonyme	Because basically just omitting the f"" completely will give you three-item lists
2021-05-23 04:15:03	Andy_Kw	supakeen oh my man! that simple???
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2021-05-23 04:15:23	nanonyme	Yeah, that is also a good and readable way to handle the situation
2021-05-23 04:15:25	Andy_Kw	let me try: if you are correct, I'm gonna cry
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2021-05-23 04:15:45	supakeen	Yes though I had a typo you'll need to fix with an extra "
2021-05-23 04:15:57	supakeen	(after val_interv)
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2021-05-23 04:17:33	Andy_Kw	supakeen thank you! <3  <3  <3
2021-05-23 04:17:46	Andy_Kw	I've been thinking on how to do this since yesterday eve.
2021-05-23 04:17:49	Andy_Kw	I O U
2021-05-23 04:18:07	Andy_Kw	yes, this is exactly what I need, clean code
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2021-05-23 05:35:19	amo	good morning :) greyblue9 thanks for keeping up the discussion after i left ;)
2021-05-23 05:35:25	amo	well, monologue rather
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2021-05-23 05:37:27	amo	nedbat, i was fiddling around with pre-populating module globales before import-execution in use() because i think it would solve a number of architectural problems in larger projects
2021-05-23 05:37:31	greyblue9	amo: haha, I don't know that I did it justice, but you're welcome :p
2021-05-23 05:38:40	amo	nedbat, say, you have a central module and you want to add functionality, like plugins etc
2021-05-23 05:40:10	amo	the naive approach "just import the module to add functionality" doesn't work in those cases because you need to pass some context into the imported module, so it gets more complicated than it needs to be
2021-05-23 05:41:13	amo	one could drop the whole pass-references-around-dance if it's possible to pass context into the to-be-imported module
2021-05-23 05:42:20	amo	of course it's also possible to mess up the whole code structure and make it less readable than before
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2021-05-23 05:44:14	amo	that is why i plan to add functionality to track use() with arguments so one could get a kind of internal dependency graph
2021-05-23 05:44:43	greyblue9	there are "import hooks" but that's prertty much just for locating the  module, correct?
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2021-05-23 05:46:07	greyblue9	amo: then the reloading shoe drops
2021-05-23 05:46:23	amo	i think reloading can be done with this
2021-05-23 05:46:28	rj1	ANAL SHITCUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
2021-05-23 05:46:31	rj1	oops sry typo
2021-05-23 05:46:41	amo	afaik those work with the import statement, i'm working with importlib as much as possible
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2021-05-23 05:49:46	amo	greyblue9, the first hurdle i've come across is that the way i inject globals doesn't work universally apparently (stdlib, numpy etc. is allergic to the injection)
2021-05-23 05:50:49	greyblue9	well those folks, what a surprise
2021-05-23 05:50:55	amo	but yeah, reloading is a conundrum
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2021-05-23 05:51:50	amo	i could keep the globals between reloads, but then it's not cleaner as before. i could reset the globals and re-inject them every reload, which might be cleaner
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2021-05-23 05:52:04	greyblue9	it seems it could be a nice-to-have (reloading)
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2021-05-23 05:52:47	amo	sure, it's not the killer-feature of use()
2021-05-23 05:52:59	amo	i'll just experiment and make it work for me ;p
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2021-05-23 05:53:43	amo	greyblue9, you said you had other usecases for injecting globals in mind?
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2021-05-23 05:58:13	greyblue9	amo: sure, for one - it could be very useful testing and developing modules in isolation I think, without each module needing to drag in a whole forest of imports to use just a handful of functions
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2021-05-23 05:58:48	greyblue9	the module could be more "dumb"
2021-05-23 05:59:02	amo	oh, testing! sure, that's a great idea!
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2021-05-23 05:59:49	Andy_Kw	quick question : I have a timestamp like this `01:20:00`. I would like to use datetime to turn it, into 80 (for 80 minutes) but I could not find not anything on internet
2021-05-23 06:00:17	Andy_Kw	(I would like to use the datetime library, I mean)
2021-05-23 06:00:19	amo	Andy_Kw, just do the math ;)
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2021-05-23 06:00:23	ChrisWarrick	Andy_Kw: datetime doesn’t do things like this
2021-05-23 06:00:41	Andy_Kw	oh
2021-05-23 06:00:43	ChrisWarrick	it’s pretty trivial to do by hand though
2021-05-23 06:00:57	greyblue9	fancy namedtuple with operators?
2021-05-23 06:01:24	amo	dt.hours * 60 + dt.minutes or similar
2021-05-23 06:01:37	supakeen	Well a timedelta (which is likely what that actually is) has a .total_seconds() method you can use for this with //.
2021-05-23 06:02:38	amo	that's another way, true
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2021-05-23 06:03:07	greyblue9	agreed, the date thing does make it cumbersome when you only care about time of day
2021-05-23 06:03:42	nedbat	amo: tbh, i really have no idea what problems you are trying to solve.
2021-05-23 06:04:26	Andy_Kw	amo & supakeen let me have a try
2021-05-23 06:05:09	greyblue9	Andy_Kw: from where and in what form do you receive this timestamp
2021-05-23 06:06:09	Andy_Kw	greyblue9 I receive this timestamp from an API. It is a json format but eventually, I have a string
2021-05-23 06:06:49	greyblue9	but it comes to you requiring parsing I guess
2021-05-23 06:06:56	amo	nedbat, there are different problems i'm trying to solve. in this case, it's related to circular imports
2021-05-23 06:08:01	Andy_Kw	it comes as it is
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2021-05-23 06:09:03	amo	nedbat, frequently someone asks how to pass in references from module A to module B, where module B is imported from module A
2021-05-23 06:09:42	Andy_Kw	https://prnt.sc/13asm97
2021-05-23 06:09:47	greyblue9	Andy_Kw: ah, I guess I can't be any further help then
2021-05-23 06:10:13	amo	which involves passing references back and forth, and only during/after the execution of the import
2021-05-23 06:10:23	Andy_Kw	I think I should be ok actually, talking with you, helped me with a better understanding
2021-05-23 06:11:12	amo	nedbat, those cases could be significantly simplified if it was possible to pass references into the module namespace before the actual code execution
2021-05-23 06:11:20	amo	which is now possible ^^
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2021-05-23 06:16:21	nedbat	amo: i see
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2021-05-23 06:22:51	greyblue9	amo: I wonder what would happen if ypu created a new module, then straight way called _Py,E6DB74Module_GetDict()
2021-05-23 06:23:20	greyblue9	rather PyModule_GetDict() on it via ctypes
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2021-05-23 06:26:03	greyblue9	or perhaps you already solved that
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2021-05-23 06:27:50	dudek	any idea when/if there will be videos from PyCon 2021 available online?
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2021-05-23 06:28:56	greyblue9	answer: Segmentation fault
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2021-05-23 06:41:28	nedbat	dudek: i don't think there's a definite date.  my understanding is they are captioning them
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2021-05-23 06:58:52	bodom	Hi there! I am creating a "personal assistant" written in python. Long story short, it's just a python script running in an infinite loop and doing stuff useful to me. At the moment, i am controlling it using the console, but i need a way to control it over the internet no matter where i am.  I was thinking about some sort of "web gui framework", but i am open to any suggestion. Do you have any?
2021-05-23 06:59:37	petemc	flask is popular
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2021-05-23 07:00:44	amo	bodom, why not make it a telegram bot?
2021-05-23 07:00:53	amo	you could control it via mobile phone
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2021-05-23 07:01:19	bodom	petemc: thanks, i'm checking it now
2021-05-23 07:01:53	bodom	amo: that's been my first attemp, but then i realized i need a way do display real-time data "refreshing" the game. In telegram bot it ended up in a countinous spam
2021-05-23 07:02:05	bodom	s/game/page/
2021-05-23 07:02:16	amo	<greyblue9> amo: I wonder what would happen if ypu created a new module, then straight way called _Py,E6DB74Module_GetDict() <- i don't quite understand?
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2021-05-23 07:03:37	amo	bodom, uh.. what? it sounds like your "personal assistant" is doing much more than you let on?
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2021-05-23 07:04:19	bodom	amo: by example, when i ask it "watch my stocks", in telegram now it keeps sending the updated portfolio every 15 seconds. It owuld be nice to just being able to overwrite the portfolio "status box"
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2021-05-23 07:04:52	amo	bodom, why not just notify if it hits a threshold?
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2021-05-23 07:07:04	amo	i mean, you don't need to continuously watch the clouds to know about the weather, and you only need to get immediate notifications if your area is about to get hit by a storm..
2021-05-23 07:07:06	bodom	amo: because i don't want to change how i works to adapt it to the gui, i want the gui to suit my needs. There is no threshold, i just need the updated real-time info for human decision-making; then i press a button (in telegram: send a command) if i want it to take actions.
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2021-05-23 07:08:15	nedbat	bodom: this sounds like a website.
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2021-05-23 07:10:27	bodom	nedbat: it could be, but it would need to update the data without needing a page refresh (websockets?); and start a webserver in python? Is there a framework for that? (still reading flask's doc meanwhile)
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2021-05-23 07:12:41	ChrisWarrick	you don’t really need websockets, you can just query for new data every few seconds
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2021-05-23 07:13:59	bodom	isn't that so 2010? =)
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2021-05-23 07:15:13	greyblue9	amo: failed plan anyways :)
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2021-05-23 07:16:48	bodom	I mean, ChrisWarrick, this is an hobby project. I would love to experiment something new/unusual
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2021-05-23 07:17:50	maum	hello
2021-05-23 07:18:07	jess	hi
2021-05-23 07:18:09	maum	how can I resize automatically buttons in tkinter?
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2021-05-23 07:18:45	ChrisWarrick	maum: pretty sure tkinter has grid widgets (and if it doesn’t — yet another reason not to use tkinter)
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2021-05-23 07:19:36	maum	ChrisWarrick: I tried the code : grid(row=x, column=y, ipady=10, ipadx=10, sticky=E+W+N+S)  but it doesn't work
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2021-05-23 07:20:09	ChrisWarrick	maum: show your full code
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2021-05-23 07:21:33	bodom	petemc: been reading some docs, i am giving flask + socketio extension a try, looks like that could be my solution ;)
2021-05-23 07:21:33	maum	https://bpa.st/BCDA
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2021-05-23 07:25:34	dudek	Which framework is best for GUI in Python ChrisWarrick
2021-05-23 07:25:37	ChrisWarrick	dudek: pyside
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2021-05-23 07:25:50	ChrisWarrick	maum: no idea, sorry; if you want to create good-looking and easily scalable GUIs, try pyside
2021-05-23 07:26:12	maum	ChrisWarrick: more simple code is here: https://bpa.st/UFQA
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2021-05-23 07:29:13	maum	how can this code: https://bpa.st/UFQA resizable when frame is expanded.
2021-05-23 07:29:42	maum	resizing buttons
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2021-05-23 07:35:29	pyusr	how does pprint.pprint know how to print collections.Counter by the most_common ?
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2021-05-23 07:38:10	evagelos	If multiprocessing copies everything in the child process, why an object has the same id (in main process and child) ?
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2021-05-23 07:38:53	pyusr	evagelos: because it does not ?
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2021-05-23 07:39:14	pyusr	evagelos: https://docs.python.org/3/library/multiprocessing.html#contexts-and-start-methods
2021-05-23 07:39:46	pyusr	when will pycon us videos be up ?
2021-05-23 07:40:00	habnabit_	evagelos, id is only unique per-process
2021-05-23 07:40:07	habnabit_	evagelos, it doesn't have to have a new id in the child
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2021-05-23 07:40:35	evagelos	Some more context: a flask endpoint creates a multiprocess.Process while being inside a sqlalchemy session (context manager) where in finally block the session.close() is being called...Inspecting both sessions reveal that are the same, i also printed their id
2021-05-23 07:40:53	evagelos	habnabit_: oh good to know thanks!
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2021-05-23 07:40:55	habnabit_	evagelos, using multiprocessing inside a flask app is an extremely bad idea
2021-05-23 07:41:15	evagelos	habnabit_: i know i know, im just trying to understand how/why it works the way it does
2021-05-23 07:41:23	habnabit_	evagelos, use celery or similar to spin off background work
2021-05-23 07:41:41	evagelos	habnabit_: yes that is my ultimate goal
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2021-05-23 07:42:27	evagelos	the context manager closes the "copied over session" and printing stuff in child seems that the session is still open and the same and i dont get that :|
2021-05-23 07:43:02	habnabit_	evagelos, you have duplicated the session state and now you have two copies of the session, both of which think they're unique
2021-05-23 07:43:10	habnabit_	evagelos, again, very bad use case for multiprocessing
2021-05-23 07:43:20	pyusr	evagelos: how do you know the context manager closes the session ?
2021-05-23 07:43:23	maum	how can this code: https://bpa.st/UFQA resizable when frame is expanded.
2021-05-23 07:43:25	habnabit_	evagelos, there is no way to reconcile the two
2021-05-23 07:43:30	evagelos	habnabit_: right, but how can i verify that they are different?
2021-05-23 07:43:54	evagelos	pyusr: yields session and in finally block session.close()
2021-05-23 07:44:14	habnabit_	evagelos, i mean.. there is no 'different' session. each process thinks that there's only one session: the one it owns
2021-05-23 07:44:25	habnabit_	evagelos, neither one knows about the other's, nor can you tell it
2021-05-23 07:44:57	habnabit_	evagelos, fork-without-exec confuses the heck out of any library caught up in the middle of it like this
2021-05-23 07:45:00	evagelos	oh so the same id it is just result of copying it, not that they are same objects?
2021-05-23 07:45:36	evagelos	I mean when i print the id of them in parent and child..(sry for my English)
2021-05-23 07:45:44	habnabit_	evagelos, again i very strongly recommend against using multiprocessing. it creates these kinds of impossible states
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2021-05-23 07:46:28	evagelos	habnabit_: i will replace it for sure! I just want to understsand what is going on before changing stuff
2021-05-23 07:46:36	habnabit_	evagelos, the id is the same because each process thinks it's the same object. fork-without-exec duplicates _all_ state _everywhere_ without any way of being informed that it happened
2021-05-23 07:46:40	pyusr	evagelos: hard to know what you are saying without seeing code, but anyhow, creating a session, then forking is bad
2021-05-23 07:46:51	pyusr	anyhow, how does pprint.pprint know how to print collections.Counter by the most_common ?
2021-05-23 07:47:03	evagelos	habnabit_: awesome thanks!
2021-05-23 07:47:52	evagelos	so the parent's session indeed gets closed, while the copied over session is still open, ok got it thanks guys!
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2021-05-23 07:49:02	pyusr	here is how redis-py handles this session / fork thingy: https://github.com/andymccurdy/redis-py/blob/1a41cfd95a53a95b078084d8627be6b6fba3bb71/redis/connection.py#L1087
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2021-05-23 07:49:29	pyusr	it calls that function evreywhere
2021-05-23 07:50:04	pyusr	i think modern python has an option to tell python to call some special code upon forking
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2021-05-23 07:51:00	evagelos	realizing that copies EVERYTHING in the child was huge for me, i thought seeing same ids means it is the same object
2021-05-23 07:51:28	pyusr	again, it doesn't copy
2021-05-23 07:51:58	evagelos	oh am i using the term wrongly? i mean duplicate like you said, no?
2021-05-23 07:52:07	habnabit_	it does copy
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2021-05-23 07:52:36	pyusr	it's copy on write
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2021-05-23 07:53:23	habnabit_	yes. it's a total copy of the process's memory space that uses an optimization to happen lazily instead of one eager copy
2021-05-23 07:53:27	habnabit_	still a copy
2021-05-23 07:53:45	pyusr	ok, guess i'll have to read pprint source code
2021-05-23 07:53:51	maum	how can this code: https://bpa.st/UFQA resizable when frame is expanded.
2021-05-23 07:54:08	pyusr	ok, I see https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Lib/pprint.py#L489
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2021-05-23 07:55:26	duszek	can anyone help find an error in my program?
2021-05-23 07:55:48	pyusr	you won't know if you don't ask
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2021-05-23 07:56:16	ChrisWarrick	duszek: Show your code, tell us what’s wrong with the output
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2021-05-23 07:57:30	duszek	ChrisWarrick: look here: https://www.online-python.com/Xf8hU1GMjH
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2021-05-23 07:57:50	habnabit_	duszek, that's empty for me
2021-05-23 07:57:52	ChrisWarrick	duszek: I get a blank screen, please just use bpaste
2021-05-23 07:58:01	pyusr	maybe that's the error
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2021-05-23 07:58:30	duszek	well, I wanted you to ask to launch program online (no, it's not a virus, but better safe than sorry)
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2021-05-23 07:59:02	ChrisWarrick	duszek: bpaste your code, input, output
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2021-05-23 08:01:33	duszek	ChrisWarrick: https://bpa.st/WRUQ
2021-05-23 08:01:51	duszek	should be saved in same directory as "dane_obrazki.txt": https://pastebin.com/YDqHmE4j
2021-05-23 08:02:10	duszek	you can import these two files to http://online-python.com
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2021-05-23 08:03:01	ChrisWarrick	duszek: It looks like you overwrote `wiersz` with a number somewhere
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2021-05-23 08:03:32	ChrisWarrick	duszek: line 123 to be precise
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2021-05-23 08:04:22	ChrisWarrick	PS. Mixing Polish and English variable names is fairly confusing, pick one (I’d suggest English) and stick with it
2021-05-23 08:04:46	duszek	ChrisWarrick: ah, you are right
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2021-05-23 08:09:16	duszek	ChrisWarrick: still, the program doesn't work how it should
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2021-05-23 08:14:28	arecaceae	is it fine in python to default to nested dicts for structure data, or is it idiomatic to tend to default to laying out classes and then composing them together and foregoing dicts? - I'm always a bit unsure what to prefer here, working with dictionaries seems less ergonomic than working with explicit class objects, so it feels a lot like Python wants me to use dicts only sparingly - any pointers /
2021-05-23 08:14:30	arecaceae	opinions for best practices here?
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2021-05-23 08:17:00	amo	arecaceae, that depends very much on the actual case
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2021-05-23 08:17:26	amo	arecaceae, what are you working on?
2021-05-23 08:17:37	MacGyver	Also don't forget there's also named tuples.
2021-05-23 08:17:51	MacGyver	And dataclasses now?
2021-05-23 08:17:52	amo	and many other datastructures
2021-05-23 08:18:05	d42	and typeddicts :^)
2021-05-23 08:18:06	MacGyver	There's a few more options beyond the dichotomy you mentioned.
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2021-05-23 08:18:33	brutamontes	https://pastebin.com/TTV6B20P
2021-05-23 08:18:34	infobob	https://bpaste.net/4Z5A (repasted for brutamontes)
2021-05-23 08:18:56	arecaceae	sure, I'm thinking of nested/composite data structures that don't have methods attached, just "pure" data right -- dataclass are very comfortable to use for sure
2021-05-23 08:19:19	arecaceae	I'm just wondering if there's a good heuristic that would inform one when to stray off dicts
2021-05-23 08:19:44	amo	whenever it better fits the problem..
2021-05-23 08:19:48	arecaceae	or if dicts tend to be so unergonomic that you might just be better off laying out your data with say dataclasses in the first place
2021-05-23 08:19:52	arecaceae	amo: sure
2021-05-23 08:20:05	arecaceae	I'm sure there's use cases for every single feature of python
2021-05-23 08:20:21	arecaceae	I'm asking more wrt best practices for newcomers
2021-05-23 08:21:29	amo	flat is better than nested?
2021-05-23 08:21:57	amo	although practicability beats purity
2021-05-23 08:22:06	amo	just quoting the zen of python here ^^
2021-05-23 08:22:15	arecaceae	sure
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2021-05-23 08:24:40	amo	with regard to annotations, i would prefer flat classes
2021-05-23 08:25:07	amo	then you can use basic data types for annotation
2021-05-23 08:25:45	arecaceae	makes sense
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2021-05-23 08:26:47	john2gb0	is there a static analyzer that would show me impure functions?
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2021-05-23 08:30:29	amo	john2gb0, you mean static type analysis?
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2021-05-23 08:31:08	john2gb0	i need to find functions that read or write to global variables
2021-05-23 08:31:43	john2gb0	is it possible to autmate that?
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2021-05-23 08:32:18	john2gb0	amo forgot to tag you
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2021-05-23 08:32:23	amo	o.O
2021-05-23 08:32:33	amo	you mean functions with side-effects?
2021-05-23 08:33:08	amo	that's a tough nut
2021-05-23 08:33:24	f8e4	sourceing a venv and 'pip install -e /my/github/repo'; now: if the repo is updated by checking out a new tag does it reflect in venv too or do i need to source&install it again?
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2021-05-23 08:34:12	john2gb0	amo, i suppose so. i am working with a person who is inexperienced in good practices and decided to put most things in global variables instead of arguments, and now i am tasked with fixing it. listing all of the problematic functions would make the task a lot easier.
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2021-05-23 08:34:47	amo	hmmm.. i'm not sure if it's possible to do that with a static analyzer
2021-05-23 08:34:53	amo	john2gb0, but you can do it dynamically
2021-05-23 08:35:04	john2gb0	how would that be?
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2021-05-23 08:35:43	amo	you could wrap the global variable with a decorator of sorts which tracks the stack whenever there's an access to that variable
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2021-05-23 08:36:43	amo	then you get a ping whenever a function tries to access the variable
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2021-05-23 08:38:11	amo	which raises the question how to do that in a global context *hmm*
2021-05-23 08:38:24	amo	easy to do that in a class
2021-05-23 08:38:30	john2gb0	yeah, that sounds quite dodgy in the context of this specific codebase
2021-05-23 08:38:43	john2gb0	but ill have a go, thanks! amo
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2021-05-23 08:38:48	amo	yw
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2021-05-23 08:41:21	amo	sounds like another potential scenario for aspect-oriented wrappers in use() imports
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2021-05-23 09:11:48	ramsub07	Hello. I've strings with information on weight of an object. such as "Xg" or "X.Yg". Where X and Y are integers. How do I write a regex to capture both int and str that precedes the 'g'?
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2021-05-23 09:24:10	amo	ramsub07, weights as in physical measures?
2021-05-23 09:24:37	ramsub07	yes
2021-05-23 09:24:46	ramsub07	specifically 'g' -> grams
2021-05-23 09:24:48	amo	X.Yg doesn't look like an integer
2021-05-23 09:25:24	amo	are you parsing those strings from some text or why is everything a str?
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2021-05-23 09:26:38	amo	because when it comes to units, i'd recommend a lib like pint instead of doing things yourself
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2021-05-23 09:33:57	void09	anyone here that for some strange reason is stuck on using ubuntu 18.04 LTS? how do you install the pip for python3.7 ?
2021-05-23 09:34:27	void09	python3-pip packages is for python3.6 and pulls a lot of gunk with it
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2021-05-23 09:34:45	void09	they have python3.7 packages but for some reason it does not come with pip
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2021-05-23 09:36:40	tumbleweed	void09: does the python3-pip not work?
2021-05-23 09:36:59	tumbleweed	void09: otherwise create a virtualenv, and it'll have pip in it
2021-05-23 09:37:01	void09	tumbleweed: it works, once  I set the default python version to 3.7
2021-05-23 09:37:20	void09	but I was wondering if there's a ppa or something where all this crap is fixed
2021-05-23 09:37:23	tumbleweed	even if you don't, python3 -m pip should work?
2021-05-23 09:37:27	void09	don't need python3.6-dev and such
2021-05-23 09:37:40	void09	python3 -m pip
2021-05-23 09:37:40	void09	/usr/bin/python3: No module named pip
2021-05-23 09:37:53	tumbleweed	you have python3-pip installed?
2021-05-23 09:37:59	tumbleweed	sorry, I meant python3.7 -m pip
2021-05-23 09:38:02	void09	nah, I am trying to avoid that if possible
2021-05-23 09:38:12	void09	as it pulls unneeded stuff
2021-05-23 09:38:12	tumbleweed	if you don't install pip, you won't have pip
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2021-05-23 09:38:27	void09	I am attempting to install it "cleanly"
2021-05-23 09:38:38	void09	I thik I get python 3.6 pip which just happens to work with 3.7
2021-05-23 09:38:40	tumbleweed	it's a non-default version, you won't get it completely clean
2021-05-23 09:38:53	tumbleweed	a virtualenv with pip in it is probably the cleanest you'll get
2021-05-23 09:39:06	tumbleweed	you get a python3 pip, which happens to work with 3.7
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2021-05-23 09:39:12	tumbleweed	it's not specific to 3.6
2021-05-23 09:39:23	tumbleweed	but its dependencies will be based around the current defaults (3.6)
2021-05-23 09:40:35	void09	I see this ppa refferenced often: https://launchpad.net/~deadsnakes/+archive/ubuntu/ppa - anyone use it for 18.04 ?
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2021-05-23 09:44:18	tumbleweed	void09: presumably that's where you got your python3.7
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2021-05-23 09:48:21	maum	hello
2021-05-23 09:48:25	amo	hello
2021-05-23 09:48:35	maum	can someone help me about tkinter?
2021-05-23 09:49:04	amo	ask your question and hope :)
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2021-05-23 09:49:30	maum	how can I resize buttons automatically when frame is expanded : https://bpa.st/LWGQ
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2021-05-23 09:50:40	amo	i'm not familiar enough with tkinter to answer that question, but when it comes to more advanced features like that, i'd use something more modern
2021-05-23 09:50:54	maum	modern?
2021-05-23 09:50:58	amo	why did you choose tkinter in the first place?
2021-05-23 09:51:15	maum	I don't know the modern thing
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2021-05-23 09:52:18	amo	pyqt5 or gtk4 is what i'd call modern
2021-05-23 09:52:44	amo	https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
2021-05-23 09:52:46	maum	ah
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2021-05-23 09:53:42	amo	the only big advantage of tkinter over the other frameworks is that it's included in the stlib
2021-05-23 09:54:08	amo	so, is that why you chose it? do you require that advantage?
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2021-05-23 09:54:59	maum	hm.. if pyqt5 is easy, not doubt to choose it
2021-05-23 09:55:10	parapan	hi all; does anyone has a clue what the syntax will be to scrap "dateCreated"   from https://bpa.st/SUVQ , with BeautifulSoup ?
2021-05-23 09:56:11	amo	maum, it's not easy per se, but there are good tools like qtdesigner that help a great deal
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2021-05-23 09:56:34	maum	ah
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2021-05-23 10:17:45	Numero-6	How can i send all request from all client, to a html data for see in web browser by all client ? I use do_get from BASEHTTPRequest, i do make an other class http.server for put all info in htlm page ?
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2021-05-23 10:20:50	Andy_Kw	quick one : let's say I have a list with multiples dictionnaries like here https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2125164 What would be the best way to parse it to look for the cheapest, knowing I have the car id and the part needed that goes with it?
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2021-05-23 10:23:13	Xavierdarkness	Andy_Kw: you probably could do a list comprehension on the key and call the min() function on it.
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2021-05-23 10:23:37	Andy_Kw	oh that's smart! Thank you
2021-05-23 10:23:44	Andy_Kw	Xavierdarkness
2021-05-23 10:23:51	maum	how can I resize buttons automatically when frame is expanded : https://bpa.st/LWGQ
2021-05-23 10:24:08	Xavierdarkness	Np, happy to help Andy_Kw
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2021-05-23 10:25:43	Andy_Kw	Ty. It should make me go forward
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2021-05-23 10:38:51	Andy_Kw	I tried the following
2021-05-23 10:38:55	Andy_Kw	`test = [min(float(json_data['parts'][val]['price'])) for val in range(len(json_data['parts']))]`
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2021-05-23 10:52:18	zenox	hi, is it possible to find a slice in a series?
2021-05-23 10:52:38	zenox	e.g. find [1,2,3] in [5,4,6,1,2,3,5,6,6,] etc
2021-05-23 10:53:04	zenox	all i find is about how to perform slicing
2021-05-23 10:53:36	supakeen	Sure, you could iterate over the list in slices and compare them to your target slice for example.
2021-05-23 10:53:46	gnoirzox	You'll need to iterate over the list to check the values
2021-05-23 10:53:57	gnoirzox	Doesn
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2021-05-23 10:54:08	gnoirzox	't seem too complicated
2021-05-23 10:54:51	maum	how can I resize buttons automatically when frame is expanded : https://bpa.st/LWGQ
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2021-05-23 10:56:24	zenox	yeah, i was hoping to avoid doing that - i'm lazy, but sure not too difficult
2021-05-23 10:56:35	zenox	i was thinking something like a .index for slices
2021-05-23 10:57:05	supakeen	Don't think there is though you can find all instances of the first element of your sublist and then compare the slice after it ;)
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2021-05-23 10:57:51	nedbat	zenox: def slice_index(big, little): ll = len(little); for i in range(len(big)-ll+1): if big[i:i+ll] == little: return i
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2021-05-23 10:58:07	nedbat	zenox: and supakeen has an optimization
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2021-05-23 10:58:25	supakeen	Is it an optimization? :)
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2021-05-23 10:58:35	supakeen	Not that I know big-O in any case.
2021-05-23 10:59:23	zenox	ned that's neater than what i would have done! thanks
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2021-05-23 11:01:21	nedbat	supakeen: it's not a better time complexity, but yours will be faster
2021-05-23 11:01:21	zenox	i only started with python yesterday and its slicing notation is baffling to me
2021-05-23 11:02:06	zenox	ned supakeen the big array has 5 elements and the small 3 elements, so... :)
2021-05-23 11:02:09	supakeen	It's quite powerful zenox, but a bit weird to get started with.
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2021-05-23 11:02:37	zenox	yep totally agree. the best way though is to get stuck in
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2021-05-23 11:03:01	parapan	hi all; does anyone has a clue what the syntax will be to scrap "dateCreated"   from https://bpa.st/SUVQ , with BeautifulSoup ?
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2021-05-23 11:06:59	supakeen	Ehhh, you can get the content of that script tag and then parse the contents with a library that understands JSON-LD.
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2021-05-23 11:07:45	supakeen	I don't know BeautifulSoup syntax but if it does xpath something akin to `//script[@type='application/ld+json']/text()` would work.
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2021-05-23 11:11:17	parapan	supakeen: well, "script" tag with {"type":"application/ld+json} give me all that in the bpaste; I don't know how to dig further down .... it also seems I have tuple inside dictionary ....; going directly for the "dateCreated" returns an empty [ ] . . .
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2021-05-23 11:12:59	supakeen	I'm unsure but you need to parse the text that comes out of the tag with a fitting library.
2021-05-23 11:13:18	SnoopJ	unfortunately BS doesn't do XPath :(
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2021-05-23 11:13:34	supakeen	I'm sure it has a different way to do the same!
2021-05-23 11:13:37	SnoopJ	it does, yep
2021-05-23 11:13:40	parapan	supakeen - exactly ...
2021-05-23 11:14:03	SnoopJ	I think the reason is because valid HTML docs (BS's concern) are not necessarily valid XML docs
2021-05-23 11:14:12	parapan	SnoopJ: do you know the syntax ?
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2021-05-23 11:14:36	SnoopJ	parapan, I don't know what "dig further down" means here
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2021-05-23 11:15:18	SnoopJ	It sounds like you are able to extract the contents of that tag, and if so, you're done with the BeautifulSoup part of the problem, as supakeen says
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2021-05-23 11:18:44	parapan	SnoopJ: well, I do, but I cannot get the value of "dateCreated" .....looks like a key:value pair ....maybe direct python command ?
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2021-05-23 11:23:34	fbiagent	I came here to ask a question but as I typed it out I realized how dumb it was, thanks guys
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2021-05-23 11:25:29	a1paca	zenox: if you care about complexity that's the classic string search problem and there are faster ways
2021-05-23 11:25:43	a1paca	overkill for a length of 5 though
2021-05-23 11:25:51	supakeen	parapan, the text inside the tag is in a variant of JSON, you need a separate library to parse that bit but if it's only a single line it will work with the normal json library, see for example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43655169/how-to-parse-ldjson-using-python
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2021-05-23 11:27:39	parapan	supakeen: ok, thanks, could be helpful at least to understand smth ...
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2021-05-23 11:37:28	SnoopJ	parapan, have a look at this: https://bpaste.net/SOPQ
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2021-05-23 11:39:07	parapan	SnoopJ: WOW ! this is "study" material , thanks; I'm on it . . .
2021-05-23 11:39:24	SnoopJ	parapan, if any part of it is unclear, please ask a clarifying question about it
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2021-05-23 11:41:47	parapan	SnoopJ: are you kiddin' me ? is commented like in school tutorials ...:D; if I don't get it ....I should be seriously worried about my IQ
2021-05-23 11:42:02	 *	SnoopJ doesn't agree
2021-05-23 11:42:56	MacGyver	Unfortunately I think you overestimate the quality of a lot of teaching material.
2021-05-23 11:43:19	MacGyver	Also clarifying questions are always valid.
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2021-05-23 11:44:54	parapan	SnoopJ: MacGyver: I've got every bit out of it, thank you . . . .
2021-05-23 11:45:19	parapan	I'll even copy that to my learning materials ....
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2021-05-23 11:56:40	zenox	alpaca yeah overkill for len=5, but thanks. i'm not too worried about performance atm. i am using python and all!
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2021-05-23 12:17:55	maum	how can I resize buttons automatically when frame is expanded : https://bpa.st/LWGQ
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2021-05-23 12:21:05	acresearch	people, is ther a way to pretty dump an xml file that i generated?   the root element?
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2021-05-23 12:24:02	ramsub07	Hello. I've filenames like ['100', '1000', '90', '990'..]. how do I sort them based on their integer values?
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2021-05-23 12:24:15	meridion	acresearch: I use "xmllint --format <xml file>" to pretty print xml files
2021-05-23 12:25:33	nedbat	ramsub07: sorted(that_list, key=int)
2021-05-23 12:25:52	ramsub07	nedbat thank you
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2021-05-23 12:26:31	ramsub07	a bit curious, what if the list contained some strings? as in  ['abc_100', 'def_1000', 'ghi_90', 'lmn_990'..]
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2021-05-23 12:26:58	SnoopJ	you would probably want to use a more complicated key function to turn those into the appropriate integers
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2021-05-23 12:27:42	ChrisWarrick	or `pip install natsort`
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2021-05-23 12:28:41	ramsub07	I tried, key=lambda word : int(word.split('/')[-1])
2021-05-23 12:29:06	ramsub07	what am i doing wrong?
2021-05-23 12:29:06	SnoopJ	'/' doesn't appear in any of those strings
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2021-05-23 12:29:14	ramsub07	sorry '_'
2021-05-23 12:29:52	SnoopJ	That would work for the data you've shown us. You may have other data that doesn't fit the pattern we've seen. If you've hit an error, please share the complete error report: https://bpaste.net/+python+pytb
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2021-05-23 12:31:13	nedbat	ramsub07: i find this works well: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200712/human_sorting.html
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2021-05-23 12:33:31	ramsub07	SnoopJ yes there were some trailing useless strings in the list that didn't match the pattern and I wasn't aware of
2021-05-23 12:33:55	SnoopJ	nedbat's solution is a good general one if you care any every group of integers in a filename
2021-05-23 12:34:32	parapan	SnoopJ: only one thing on your solution ...data.text doesn't work on the <script> tag; after some searching it seems the correct syntax is `data_txt = data.string`
2021-05-23 12:35:34	SnoopJ	parapan, it works on 4.9.3, which is the latest release. I can't speak for other releases.
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2021-05-23 12:37:23	ramsub07	nedbat thanks for that code, the problem was there were other redundant int my code and I had to get rid of that
2021-05-23 12:37:41	ramsub07	*int in my strings that I was attempting to sort
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2021-05-23 12:38:30	parapan	SnoopJ: I don't have a clue what version I'm on; `.text` is working on other tags . . like <p> or <h2> or whatever , simply not on the `<script> . .
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2021-05-23 12:40:02	SnoopJ	parapan, you can find out with `python3 -m pip show BeautifulSoup4`
2021-05-23 12:40:28	acresearch	meridion: how do i use that? where do i use it?   in ET.dump(root)?
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2021-05-23 12:45:18	parapan	SnoopJ: bs4 is also version 4.9.3; anyway I've learned smth new , so it's not a problem ...
2021-05-23 12:45:55	SnoopJ	parapan, not sure why it isn't working, then. I imagine the program you're running isn't like the one I'm running, but can't tell you more than that without seeing the source and the error report.
2021-05-23 12:46:03	meridion	acresearch: ah, sorry, no that's a command-line utility that ships with libxml2, so this wasn't a pythonic answer per se, just, if you have an xml file, that's a way to solve it on linux
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2021-05-23 12:47:08	parapan	SnoopJ: don't bother with it, the end result helped me so . .. I'm good ....
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2021-05-23 13:00:13	Abo97	Hi, I just read about semver.org and wondered whether Python follows this? When a module becomes deprecated that not count as API break?
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2021-05-23 13:02:30	mefistofeles	Abo97: I think it tries to follow it as close as possible, but not entrirely sure
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2021-05-23 13:07:17	nedbat	Abo97: Python does not strictly follow semver.
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2021-05-23 13:07:38	nedbat	Abo97: but one of the difficulties with semver is deciding what is part of "the interface" of a given software project.
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2021-05-23 13:08:29	Abo97	Why actually Python does not follow semver?
2021-05-23 13:09:18	Abo97	I'm writing an application and wondering how the versioning should be, read about semver and its seems good, so wanted to search for references for big application that uses it or for any alternative
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2021-05-23 13:11:51	acresearch	meridion: oh, is there a way to output a pretty xml into a file in pretty form? it seems i can pretty an imported xml but not a generated one
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2021-05-23 13:13:44	KirkMcDonald	Abo97: "Compatibility" can be a really fuzzy concept when talking about a programming language.
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2021-05-23 13:14:29	KirkMcDonald	Abo97: If you make a change such that something which used to result in an error now does something else (perhaps it no longer results in an error, perhaps it results in a different error), is that a change in the interface of the programming language?
2021-05-23 13:15:05	nedbat	Abo97: probably if python followed strict semver, every release would be a major version bump
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2021-05-23 13:16:25	KirkMcDonald	Abo97: It's possible to be more clear-cut about things with a library. But the "interface" of Python, between code written in Python and the Python interpreter, is just too huge.
2021-05-23 13:16:55	Abo97	Change of the exception type that the library throw should come with a major bump?
2021-05-23 13:17:34	KirkMcDonald	Abo97: The meaning of "backward compatible" is open to interpretation, is the point.
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2021-05-23 13:20:27	Abo97	So if following this guideline, there are no new applications that use semver?
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2021-05-23 13:22:28	KirkMcDonald	What? I'm not sure how you got there from what we said.
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2021-05-23 13:36:08	amogorkon	just wondering, what's the point of name mangling like __foo to _Bar__foo?
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2021-05-23 13:37:10	nedbat	amogorkon: it was meant to allow deep inheritance hierarchies without worrying about collisions from parent to child
2021-05-23 13:37:23	amogorkon	ah, ty
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2021-05-23 13:38:58	amogorkon	Abo97, in some cases it makes more sense to use a time-based versioning scheme
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2021-05-23 13:39:26	amogorkon	Abo97, semver makes most sense for APIs, not so much for applications
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2021-05-23 13:42:13	amogorkon	ubuntu for instance
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2021-05-23 13:56:27	dudek	Hi, Can you guys check my code and let me know how can I improve it (OOP)? I summarized what I want to do inside the paste as it was too long: https://bpa.st/AXPQ
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2021-05-23 13:59:50	KirkMcDonald	dudek: Do any of these actually need to be classes? Based on how they are used, they just seem like functions with an extra step.
2021-05-23 14:00:30	dudek	well tbqh that could be an approach but i really try to get better at OOP
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2021-05-23 14:00:43	dudek	that's why I'd like it to be in class based approach
2021-05-23 14:00:45	KirkMcDonald	Ah, though you are making a list of the parsers, so never mind, that is useful.
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2021-05-23 14:01:33	KirkMcDonald	dudek: I will say that, although you're inheriting from LogParser, you're also redefining the __init__ method when you don't need to.
2021-05-23 14:01:49	dudek	ah thats a good catch Kirk
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2021-05-23 14:02:48	KirkMcDonald	dudek: You're also not doing anything with files_to_parse, but presumably you just haven't implemented that yet.
2021-05-23 14:05:40	dudek	I'm passing that in on line 44 to FilterAndMerge class
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2021-05-23 14:12:10	KirkMcDonald	Oh, so you are.
2021-05-23 14:13:01	KirkMcDonald	dudek: The prolem is that you're also creating files_to_parse inside of that for loop on line 36, which means you're going to obliterate everything but its last iteration.
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2021-05-23 14:14:36	dudek	that would be a problem but if you look at the json structure, I'm looping over the list, so I'm actually getting all the iterations; the value is not overwritten
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2021-05-23 14:21:47	teut	what are the possible reasons that the  {% extends  ""  %} is working in django but {% block  }   is not?
2021-05-23 14:21:59	KirkMcDonald	dudek: Oh, I see. I think this would be more clearly expressed if you just had one loop that did: for file in js["files"]:
2021-05-23 14:22:39	teut	https://bpa.st/XNFA     the base template is there but the block content area  in empty
2021-05-23 14:22:56	teut	is*     ; in the browser
2021-05-23 14:23:30	dudek	KirkMcDonald, that makes sense, I didn't thought about that, thanks. What do you think of the FilterAndMerge class? I have a feeling it's too messy, should I approach it differently?
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2021-05-23 14:44:15	gitesh_	If #python is moving then please let me know.
2021-05-23 14:44:35	SnoopJ	it hasn't been decided yet
2021-05-23 14:44:47	nedbat	gitesh_: there are already people talking in libera #python if you like
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2021-05-23 14:45:07	gitesh_	okay
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2021-05-23 14:46:48	rendar	what is libera?
2021-05-23 14:47:08	SnoopJ	rendar, an IRC network started by the staff who resigned en masse from freenode
2021-05-23 14:47:21	rendar	oh! why that happened? if i may ask?
2021-05-23 14:47:59	Peng	rendar: https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html
2021-05-23 14:48:08	SnoopJ	see also: https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
2021-05-23 14:48:15	rendar	i see, thanks
2021-05-23 14:48:27	rendar	can you give me an irc server of this libera?
2021-05-23 14:48:55	KirkMcDonald	irc.libera.chat
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2021-05-23 14:48:58	ChrisWarrick	uh, why are there so many libera-centric articles on this?
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2021-05-23 14:49:24	SnoopJ	the world wonders
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2021-05-23 14:50:48	rendar	it seems in libera chat i can't set +x to hide my ip :(
2021-05-23 14:51:07	SnoopJ	rendar, #python is about Python
2021-05-23 14:51:19	nedbat	ChrisWarrick: what does libera-centric mean?
2021-05-23 14:51:26	SnoopJ	#python-offtopic exists for other chit-chat
2021-05-23 14:51:32	rendar	SnoopJ: sorry, you're right
2021-05-23 14:52:17	Peng	(Libera has cloaks.)
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2021-05-23 14:54:11	ChrisWarrick	nedbat: most content I’ve seen about it unconditionally says “Andrew Lee bad, Libera good”
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2021-05-23 14:55:11	nedbat	ChrisWarrick: we can talk in -offtopic if you like
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2021-05-23 14:56:19	nedbat	maybe sometimes lots of people agree on a thing, and that thing is true
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2021-05-23 15:43:25	noregret	trying to parse binary output piped into a python script, but i see that it's read as a string so bytes(sys.argv[1]) is failed, any ideas how to get that in a bytes()?
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2021-05-23 15:44:29	bjs	noregret: https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.argv  "When you need original bytes, you can get it by [os.fsencode(arg) for arg in sys.argv]."
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2021-05-23 15:46:19	guriya	can someone point me to good python projects in github where I can learn to contribute?  Most python github projects are tutorials,resources
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2021-05-23 15:49:03	yskapell	Hello all
2021-05-23 15:49:10	solrize	is there some known madness about tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile where if you write too much stuff to the temp file, it closes and makes another file?
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2021-05-23 15:49:15	noregret	bjs: perfect, thanks
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2021-05-23 15:53:17	nedbat	solrize: that doesn't sound right
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2021-05-23 15:53:43	yskapell	I have some markdown table which looks like something like this https://bpa.st/AHVA
2021-05-23 15:54:05	yskapell	Does any one know if I can easily fix such tables?
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2021-05-23 16:04:05	solrize	nedbat, i found the problem, i was running "xargs python3 myscript file1 file2 ...." with a lot of files, and xargs split the args into smaller groups and ran the script multiple times, instead of running once with all the args.... thanks
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2021-05-23 16:07:19	noregret	bjs: so weird thing, the binary output contains a 0x5c ('\'), when piped to python, the backslash is gone, it's not even read, any idea? i'm piping output like "./binary | xargs python3 mypy.py" and reading it from "[os.fsencode(arg) for arg in sys.argv][1]"
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2021-05-23 16:08:12	bjs	noregret: does it contain a 0x5c before the space
2021-05-23 16:08:14	noregret	bjs: same thing happening with 0x0a, it doesn't read the newline, just cuts it
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2021-05-23 16:08:30	noregret	bjs: what space/
2021-05-23 16:08:32	noregret	?
2021-05-23 16:09:34	bjs	noregret: I thought `xargs` would split argv on spaces
2021-05-23 16:09:37	bjs	like standard shells
2021-05-23 16:10:00	noregret	bjs: this is the output - https://dpaste.org/mQP7 - also not sure about xargs tbh, so could it be messing with stuff?
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2021-05-23 16:10:29	bjs	noregret: `echo 'a b c' | xargs python3 -c 'import sys; print(sys.argv)'`   will print ["-c", "a", "b", "c"]  because a b and c get split into 3 args
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2021-05-23 16:11:39	solrize	echo a b c | xargs python3 ...  will do similar
2021-05-23 16:11:47	noregret	bjs: I see, but not there is not space, no 0x20 ie
2021-05-23 16:12:04	noregret	but no there is no space*
2021-05-23 16:12:05	solrize	but echo 1 2 3 ..... 9999 will run the script multiple times
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2021-05-23 16:12:36	bjs	noregret: I'm a little confused, you say ./binary but then you show me a file.bin
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2021-05-23 16:12:56	bjs	noregret: what is this ./binary thing?
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2021-05-23 16:13:22	noregret	bjs: whatever the file is named, talking about a binary file getting executed and dumping output in binary form as shown
2021-05-23 16:13:48	bjs	noregret: is file.bin the binary file, or the output of the binary file?
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2021-05-23 16:14:17	noregret	bjs: file.bin is an executable, nevermind it, I want the output shown to be piped to my py script
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2021-05-23 16:14:42	bjs	noregret: but is ./file.bin the same as ./binary?  you have mentioned two different things but it's not clear what the relation between them is
2021-05-23 16:14:56	noregret	bjs: yes yes, sorry about that
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2021-05-23 16:15:09	noregret	./<whatever is executed>
2021-05-23 16:15:22	noregret	just interested in the output
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2021-05-23 16:17:50	bjs	noregret: https://bpa.st/KD5Q
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2021-05-23 16:20:21	bjs	noregret: is what I see what you see?
2021-05-23 16:20:33	noregret	bjs: ok i'm an idiot, I didn't realize there was more in that list, I kept working with [1] - sorry about :/
2021-05-23 16:21:01	noregret	bjs: but yes I see what you see, do you see the problem?
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2021-05-23 16:21:28	noregret	bjs: check 19 and 1A offsets
2021-05-23 16:21:55	bjs	noregret: well, I don't see a "problem".  But what I do see is the sequence cf e9 3d 5c 67 ea and in the bytes b"\xe9=g\xea"
2021-05-23 16:21:56	bbear	hi
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2021-05-23 16:22:09	bjs	oops b"\xcf\xe9=g\xea" I mean
2021-05-23 16:22:15	noregret	bjs: right, '\' is missing
2021-05-23 16:22:32	noregret	bjs: after the '=', right? or am I getting blind?
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2021-05-23 16:24:13	bjs	noregret: perhaps `xargs` is trying to parse escape sequences like the shell does
2021-05-23 16:24:27	grawity	yeah xargs generally does that
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2021-05-23 16:27:41	solrize	is there a builtin to read integers with comma separators?  i.e. '1,024' => 1024
2021-05-23 16:27:51	solrize	with error checking etc
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2021-05-23 16:28:13	bjs	noregret: I think xargs is trying to match the behaviour e.g. bash gives you
2021-05-23 16:28:21	bjs	noregret: `foo \a \b \c` == `foo a b c`
2021-05-23 16:28:35	solrize	lots of search hits about inserting commas on output but nothing about undoing them on input
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2021-05-23 16:29:04	noregret	bjs:  i see
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2021-05-23 16:29:59	grawity	solrize: why not just .replace(",", "")
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2021-05-23 16:30:30	noregret	hmm, what's the way around that?
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2021-05-23 16:31:03	solrize	grawity, i was hoping for some error checking too.  ie "12,34" => error
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2021-05-23 16:31:37	grawity	depends on input, e.g. xargs -d '\n' is common, as is xargs -0, and specifying a delimiter turns off the special parsing
2021-05-23 16:32:13	noregret	bjs: actually, I just tried sys.stdin.buffer and it worked fine, no need for argv after all in this case
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2021-05-23 16:37:30	bjs	noregret: stdin isn't the same as argv, and for stdin the bytes just get passed directly "as-is" to the process
2021-05-23 16:37:45	bjs	so maybe yeah,  piping ./binary | python3 ...  without xargs is just a better thing
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2021-05-23 16:38:02	noregret	bjs: yep, taht's what I wanted, i just forgot about stdin, thanks!
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2021-05-23 17:27:19	Evidlo	the keyring package is so irritating.  it keeps getting installed and locks up twine/pip for almost a minute
2021-05-23 17:28:13	grawity	is that still the kwallet bug from months ago?
2021-05-23 17:28:14	voldial	I have a HTML file with some inline CSS, (a GET reponse), and I want to know if a element has CSS rules that apply to it. What's the right tool? selenium? I would rather not spin up a full web rendering engine (via a selenium driver) if possible...
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2021-05-23 17:29:06	Evidlo	grawity: I don't know, but I've definitely seen kwallet in the error messages, even though I don't use it
2021-05-23 17:29:21	SnoopJ	voldial, BeautifulSoup/lxml can do that by checking either the class or the inline style, though I'm not sure if either offers any feature that will parse the CSS into some rich representation
2021-05-23 17:29:30	grawity	threa I was thinking of: https://twitter.com/thatcks/status/1321312639604137986
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2021-05-23 17:30:02	grawity	BeautifulSoup's .select() uses CSS selector syntax, though IIRC it's fairly basic
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2021-05-23 17:30:17	voldial	SnoopJ: my usecase is just to know if some text is bold or color etc... thanks, that's perfect
2021-05-23 17:30:36	SnoopJ	yea I'm guessing a selector or equivalent behavior is probably fine
2021-05-23 17:30:52	voldial	grawity: thanks. reading
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2021-05-23 17:32:14	voldial	SnoopJ: if by selector, you mean xpath, I think no, because I want to in general know if a html has any css rules that apply to it... or am I confused?
2021-05-23 17:32:27	voldial	"if a html element has"
2021-05-23 17:32:33	SnoopJ	voldial, no, I don't mean XPath
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2021-05-23 17:32:47	voldial	ah. ok. I'll go learn.
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2021-05-23 17:34:27	voldial	ah. lxml elements have a cssselect method.
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2021-05-23 17:37:53	RavuAlHemio	greetings
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2021-05-23 17:38:17	RavuAlHemio	what is going on with pip search
2021-05-23 17:38:55	SnoopJ	RavuAlHemio, the prognosis is bad: https://status.python.org/incidents/grk0k7sz6zkp
2021-05-23 17:39:14	RavuAlHemio	I've read that far
2021-05-23 17:39:38	RavuAlHemio	I feel like the pip and the PyPI developers have just given up on trying to devise a solution
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2021-05-23 17:39:53	SnoopJ	I'm not sure if `pip search` will be powered by something other than XMLRPC, but it's not going to be turned back on as-is ever, apparently.
2021-05-23 17:40:12	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: the more accurate summary is they are focusing on other improvements.
2021-05-23 17:40:29	SnoopJ	RavuAlHemio, they have given up on trying to address the abuse, but I don't think there's been a lot of discussion around "how do we fix pip-search"
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2021-05-23 17:41:02	RavuAlHemio	what a shame
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2021-05-23 17:41:28	RavuAlHemio	I feel like search is one of those fundamental pieces of functionality for a package manager
2021-05-23 17:42:03	RavuAlHemio	and it's overkill having to switch to a web browser if I have at least a vague idea of what I'm looking or
2021-05-23 17:42:04	RavuAlHemio	for*
2021-05-23 17:42:13	SnoopJ	it helps to remember that "package manager" isn't what pip was created to be
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2021-05-23 17:42:20	SnoopJ	but it's a shame about the feature, yes
2021-05-23 17:42:45	RavuAlHemio	but would it be unfair to say that it has matured to become a package manager?
2021-05-23 17:42:52	SnoopJ	it's matured to do some of the same jobs
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2021-05-23 17:44:01	nedbat	sneak preview: this channel is moving to Libera
2021-05-23 17:44:03	SnoopJ	I could see it relying on a download of metadata about all-packages, but that's not a small change and AFAIK there hasn't been a lot of "what next" conversation
2021-05-23 17:44:22	chilversc	makes me wonder what the cause is, given the time length I'm thinking a misconfigured tool
2021-05-23 17:44:24	RavuAlHemio	I mean, if that's what it takes
2021-05-23 17:44:29	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: they might appreciate help with a new solution
2021-05-23 17:44:32	RavuAlHemio	apt does something similar
2021-05-23 17:44:32	bjs	nedbat: that's not what the /topic says, how can i trust you
2021-05-23 17:44:46	nedbat	bjs: on the internet no one knows I'm a dog
2021-05-23 17:44:46	SnoopJ	bjs, by putting the emphasis on "preview" ;P
2021-05-23 17:44:59	SnoopJ	alternative joke: hey, this isn't my light cone!
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2021-05-23 17:46:42	RavuAlHemio	nedbat: I doubt it, given that they locked github/pypa/pip #5216
2021-05-23 17:47:00	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: there are other forums for discussion than github issues.
2021-05-23 17:47:13	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: but i don't know for sure what their stance would be
2021-05-23 17:47:26	greyblue9	nedbat: dogs are exempt from "trust no one"  so they're all you can trust
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2021-05-23 17:48:10	RavuAlHemio	probably "we've committed to removing the search subcommand, so that's what we'll do"
2021-05-23 17:48:22	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: you are jumping to conclusions
2021-05-23 17:48:31	RavuAlHemio	that is correct
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2021-05-23 17:48:35	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: https://discuss.python.org/t/pre-pep-optional-search-endpoint-for-the-simple-repository-api/6242/5 and https://discuss.python.org/t/use-cases-for-search-functionality-in-pypi/3032/13 might be useful
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2021-05-23 17:49:10	SnoopJ	closure of #5216 predates the decision to permanently disable XMLRPC, for what that's worth
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2021-05-23 17:49:28	RavuAlHemio	5216 isn't closed, it's just limited to contributors
2021-05-23 17:49:37	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: again, i don't know the details of the pypi work, i just recommend researching more
2021-05-23 17:49:38	SnoopJ	uh, locking*
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2021-05-23 17:49:50	RavuAlHemio	probably because Python users like me are annoyed that "pip search" was basically broken
2021-05-23 17:50:07	SnoopJ	that's another one of those jumps
2021-05-23 17:50:17	SnoopJ	(they don't go to good places, as a rule)
2021-05-23 17:50:27	RavuAlHemio	okay, now you're being condescending
2021-05-23 17:50:34	SnoopJ	sorry, that wasn't my intent
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2021-05-23 17:51:01	RavuAlHemio	it does say at the end of the Github issue in the comment box "This conversation has been locked as too heated and limited to collaborators."
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2021-05-23 17:51:19	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: I understand it's frustrating.
2021-05-23 17:51:29	greyblue9	RavuAlHemio: and me
2021-05-23 17:51:56	RavuAlHemio	as for the discuss.python links, the first one says "providing [package metadata for offline consumption] is a non-trivial thing to do and will definitely not be a ‘simple’ repository service"
2021-05-23 17:52:10	SnoopJ	And indeed, it isn't
2021-05-23 17:52:12	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: do you disagree with that assessement?
2021-05-23 17:52:22	RavuAlHemio	not at all
2021-05-23 17:52:47	RavuAlHemio	but I feel woefully underequipped with helping with that effort if someone who appears to be far more knowledgeable than me considers it non-trivial
2021-05-23 17:52:53	greyblue9	"it used to work, then didn't"
2021-05-23 17:52:55	chilversc	could the search service be restored with a different DNS name and/or IP, assuming its just a mis-configured tool, or was that already tried?
2021-05-23 17:52:56	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: yes, it's a big job
2021-05-23 17:53:19	nedbat	chilversc: i don't know the details, but the people running pypi know what they are doing, so i assume it's not a misconfigured tool.
2021-05-23 17:53:23	SnoopJ	Being done by volunteers with a lot of hats, with all the pain that implies.
2021-05-23 17:53:25	RavuAlHemio	so while they might appreciate help with a new solution, I'm afraid I'm not able to provide it
2021-05-23 17:53:43	nedbat	RavuAlHemio: i'm in the same boat.
2021-05-23 17:53:49	 *	SnoopJ has an open PR for an explicitly-acknowledged bug in pip that has failed to attract any maintainer attention
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2021-05-23 17:54:06	 *	amogorkon waves to nitori
2021-05-23 17:54:29	chilversc	just seems odd for a large scale attack to last so long
2021-05-23 17:54:44	SnoopJ	chilversc, what makes you sure it's an attack?
2021-05-23 17:54:46	greyblue9	well NuGet supports Python, right?  >P
2021-05-23 17:54:47	chilversc	and why only the search service, the mind boggles
2021-05-23 17:55:09	chilversc	yeah, hence why I thought it was a mis-configured tool
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2021-05-23 17:55:20	RavuAlHemio	well, it is easier to target one single endpoint than multiple
2021-05-23 17:55:29	RavuAlHemio	both for legitimate applications as well as, well, illegitimate ones
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2021-05-23 17:56:06	SnoopJ	speculating on possible causes is interesting, but unfortunately not very actionable, which is why the only action ended up at "we'll turn that off, then"
2021-05-23 17:56:25	SnoopJ	as far as what to do now? well, hopefully *something* :)
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2021-05-23 17:56:35	RavuAlHemio	"I am wearing too many hats; I should burn some of them"
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2021-05-23 17:57:10	chilversc	yeah, I do think there should be some obligation for ISPs to disconnect the offending systems from the internet until they resolve whatever is wrong
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2021-05-23 17:57:21	RavuAlHemio	there generally is
2021-05-23 17:57:37	RavuAlHemio	unfortunately, ISPs are wary of depeering
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2021-05-23 17:57:56	RavuAlHemio	(refusing to exchange traffic with a neighboring ISP, e.g. due to abuse)
2021-05-23 17:57:58	Nitori	ah
2021-05-23 17:58:09	RavuAlHemio	there's probably some fear of a slippery slope
2021-05-23 17:58:27	greyblue9	why is no corporation heavily benefitting from Python not stepping up with open-source money..
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2021-05-23 17:58:45	 *	SnoopJ is equally unconvinced that something is wrong!
2021-05-23 17:58:52	nedbat	greyblue9: Microsoft employs the three-person team devoted to speeding up Python currently
2021-05-23 17:58:54	chilversc	I was more thinking on an invidiual system basis, i.e. you're account is blocked until you've cleaned up the issue, or even just that IP blocking traffic on their end to the target system
2021-05-23 17:59:29	SnoopJ	greyblue9, many are. PyPI gets a 100% discount on its (~$1.8 M/mo) CDN bill, for instance.
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2021-05-23 18:00:00	greyblue9	nedbat: today I learned
2021-05-23 18:00:12	RavuAlHemio	chilversc: yes, but there isn't enough motivation for ISPs to do that
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2021-05-23 18:00:25	RavuAlHemio	and pretty much the only motivation, apart from laws which differ from country to country, is depeering
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2021-05-23 18:00:33	RavuAlHemio	is the threat of depeering*
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2021-05-23 18:03:57	 *	SnoopJ isn't sure what an ISP could do here
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2021-05-23 18:05:06	SnoopJ	nedbat, is that team Brett Cannon + Anthony Shaw + $someone_else?
2021-05-23 18:05:31	nedbat	SnoopJ: no: Mark Hammond, Guido van Rossum, and i forget the third
2021-05-23 18:05:40	SnoopJ	ah
2021-05-23 18:05:55	SnoopJ	I guess Anthony's thing is kind of its own experiment
2021-05-23 18:06:08	SnoopJ	working on Pyjion again, I mean
2021-05-23 18:06:08	chilversc	SnoopJ: contact the customers that own said IP and ask them what the hell their computers are up to, and if they don't resolve it disconnect them
2021-05-23 18:06:34	SnoopJ	chilversc, what makes you think the traffic comes from a single ISP?
2021-05-23 18:07:17	chilversc	doesn't matter, if you start contacting the various people directly they might be able to then figure out what tool or process has gone bad, and maybe identify what is behind the error
2021-05-23 18:07:42	chilversc	as from the incident report that seems to be the main issue, contacting whoever is sending this traffic to find out what is causing it
2021-05-23 18:07:44	BrenBarn	it sounds like they've already been doing that
2021-05-23 18:08:15	BrenBarn	I don't really get why this particular search feature was so vulnerable or difficult to provide
2021-05-23 18:08:18	RavuAlHemio	unfortunately, ISPs, especially commercial ISPs, love ignoring that
2021-05-23 18:08:27	<--	spiri (~spiri@unaffiliated/spiri) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-23 18:08:33	SnoopJ	BrenBarn, vulnerable: because it's possible. Difficult: it wasn't really AFAIK
2021-05-23 18:08:44	SnoopJ	err, s/possible/public/
2021-05-23 18:08:50	chilversc	BrenBarn: probably because it cannot easily be put behind a CDN so it needs actual servers to handle the requests rather than simpler distributed caches
2021-05-23 18:09:19	BrenBarn	but why is that?
2021-05-23 18:09:29	BrenBarn	I mean why is that not the case for every kind of search of anything?
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2021-05-23 18:09:43	SnoopJ	It depends on what "easily" means to you
2021-05-23 18:10:03	chilversc	the format of the request, because being RPC and XML (but mainly RPC) clients are going to post requests, which are not really cachable, for a CDN you really want simple GET requests
2021-05-23 18:10:06	BrenBarn	like what CPAN, CRAN, apt, etc., what do they all do?  do they not provide this kind of search?\
2021-05-23 18:10:16	RavuAlHemio	the XMLRPC solution was implemented eons ago and was good enough, until now it isn't
2021-05-23 18:10:18	BrenBarn	okay then why is it XMLRPC at all?
2021-05-23 18:10:20	SnoopJ	apt does not do it this way, no (you download the available packages)
2021-05-23 18:10:31	SnoopJ	RavuAlHemio, pretty much yep
2021-05-23 18:10:52	soft_concrete	let's say I want to create a dictionary that is uninitialized - I'll add values to it later - do I use [] or {}? e.g. dictionary = {} or dictionary = []? If I can use both, what's the difference between the two? Thanks.
2021-05-23 18:11:00	RavuAlHemio	the initial versions of pip were probably all XMLRPC-based
2021-05-23 18:11:01	BrenBarn	dictionary is `{}`
2021-05-23 18:11:05	BrenBarn	`[]` is a list
2021-05-23 18:11:07	soft_concrete	what's [] then?
2021-05-23 18:11:08	chilversc	BrenBarn: that's pretty much what the bug report seems to conclude, why use RPC, but at that point the search needs to be re-implemented and the question seems to be is that with in the scope of a simple package repository
2021-05-23 18:11:09	soft_concrete	ahhh right
2021-05-23 18:11:28	RavuAlHemio	soft_concrete: also, although sets are also put in {}, if you need an empty one, you have to do `set()`
2021-05-23 18:11:32	soft_concrete	can a dictionary be used like a linked list, where each key is associated with multiple values?
2021-05-23 18:11:36	BrenBarn	it just seems a bit weird to me
2021-05-23 18:11:59	soft_concrete	as opposed to 1:1 relationship between keys and values
2021-05-23 18:12:02	RavuAlHemio	because `{}` already means "empty dictionary" and not "empty set"
2021-05-23 18:12:03	chilversc	soft_concrete: sure, that would just be each key has a list, you would have to handle initiating the key with an empty list though
2021-05-23 18:12:03	grawity	that doesn't sound like a linked list to me
2021-05-23 18:12:07	BrenBarn	a dict key can only be associated with one value, but that value can be some collection like a tuple that has multiple values in it
2021-05-23 18:12:11	soft_concrete	er sorry not a linked list
2021-05-23 18:12:13	soft_concrete	hash table
2021-05-23 18:12:16	soft_concrete	<-- noob
2021-05-23 18:12:21	KirkMcDonald	A dict is, in fact, a hash table.
2021-05-23 18:12:22	SnoopJ	soft_concrete, dict() is 1:1 but the values can be containers themselves
2021-05-23 18:12:37	soft_concrete	so a dict could be a key and then a value, where the value is itself a list, SnoopJ ?
2021-05-23 18:12:41	RavuAlHemio	hash tables are generally single-value as well, but that single value can be a list or a set or something similar
2021-05-23 18:12:42	KirkMcDonald	Yes.
2021-05-23 18:12:50	SnoopJ	soft_concrete, yes, `{"foo": [1, 2, 3]}` is an example
2021-05-23 18:13:04	Hash	key/value pair data struct
2021-05-23 18:13:08	soft_concrete	SnoopJ: how do I print out the 3 in the above example?
2021-05-23 18:13:14	soft_concrete	how do I access it rather
2021-05-23 18:13:16	SnoopJ	RavuAlHemio, dictionaries aren't necessarily hash tables, but they are necessarily 1:1 mappings of keys to values
2021-05-23 18:13:26	chilversc	soft_concrete: exactly, if you're using that often it can be useful to wrap that in a custom class so you can easily have `items.add('foo', 2)`
2021-05-23 18:13:28	SnoopJ	soft_concrete, `d["foo"][-1]`
2021-05-23 18:13:40	SnoopJ	i.e. you access the dict to get the list, then you access the list.
2021-05-23 18:13:42	grawity	soft_concrete: tbh I'm not really used to thinking of hash tables as being "1:many" mappings in the first place
2021-05-23 18:13:52	RavuAlHemio	SnoopJ: that is correct, but hash tables generally aren't multimaps either
2021-05-23 18:13:57	Hash	1:1 or 1: many
2021-05-23 18:13:58	grawity	soft_concrete: at least as they're provided by all programming languages I've used, they were all 1:1
2021-05-23 18:13:59	Hash	Sure.
2021-05-23 18:14:03	SnoopJ	"hash tables" aren't a feature of the Python language
2021-05-23 18:14:21	KirkMcDonald	SnoopJ: I mean, we've got __hash__. As a matter of practicality...
2021-05-23 18:14:25	chilversc	soft_concrete: for names, a dictionary can also be called a map, and a dictionary where each key has multiple values is a multimap
2021-05-23 18:14:37	RavuAlHemio	SnoopJ: yes, but it's a concept that soft_concrete is apparently already at least partially familiar with
2021-05-23 18:14:47	 *	SnoopJ shrugs
2021-05-23 18:15:00	RavuAlHemio	so we can draw parallels between one and the other
2021-05-23 18:15:05	SnoopJ	I find it confusing enough when the terminology matches the specification of the language (such as it exists)
2021-05-23 18:15:06	grawity	soft_concrete: so in this case the value of x["foo"] is a list [1, 2, 3], so you access the first element through x["foo"][0], third via x["foo"][2], last via x["foo"][-1], and so on
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2021-05-23 18:15:19	grawity	like you would with any other list
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2021-05-23 18:18:50	soft_concrete	ah right, I forgot about negative indexing (is that the proper name?) so I can get the second-from-last element with x["foo"][-2]
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2021-05-23 18:18:59	soft_concrete	why is the leading "x" needed? what does it signify?
2021-05-23 18:19:21	SnoopJ	it's just indexing as far as terminology is concerned
2021-05-23 18:19:38	grawity	soft_concrete: it's an example variable name for where that dict is stored
2021-05-23 18:19:42	SnoopJ	soft_concrete, it signifies the thing that is being indexed into
2021-05-23 18:20:08	grawity	(assuming that x = {"foo": [1, 2, 3]} was assigned before, with SnoopJ's example)
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2021-05-23 18:20:25	SnoopJ	`d1 = {"foo": "bar"}; d2 = {"foo": "taco"}` are both dictionaries that can be indexed with ["foo"], but the result is different depending on which one you index.
2021-05-23 18:20:27	soft_concrete	aha ok. sorry for all the newbie questions, this is first day actually writing a real program in python :)
2021-05-23 18:20:38	SnoopJ	no need to apologize for questions, that's precisely why #python exists :)
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2021-05-23 18:20:42	grawity	instead of a regular dict, in this situation you might even want to use a collections.defaultdict(list)
2021-05-23 18:20:53	soft_concrete	whoa man
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2021-05-23 18:21:00	soft_concrete	that's too much for righ now, lol
2021-05-23 18:21:04	SnoopJ	I would recommend getting your head around "regular" dictionaries first
2021-05-23 18:21:04	soft_concrete	but I'll try to keep that in mind!
2021-05-23 18:21:19	soft_concrete	this is so different than C
2021-05-23 18:21:28	soft_concrete	so much stuff built in, instead of having to come up with it all myself
2021-05-23 18:21:48	BrenBarn	yeah it's pretty great :-)
2021-05-23 18:21:49	soft_concrete	it's a lot to take in. paradoxically I think I find C easier right now
2021-05-23 18:21:50	SnoopJ	but it's worth knowing that 1) indexing is a thing you can do to any object 2) the behavior is defined by the object itself 3) there are a lot of classes that define special behavior here.
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2021-05-23 18:23:10	soft_concrete	I think I need to find a good intro to the basics of python, as opposed to just seeing exapmples of "remember this thing in C? well, this is how you do it in Python"
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2021-05-23 18:23:17	soft_concrete	because Python is clearly very different than C
2021-05-23 18:23:24	soft_concrete	any suggestions?
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2021-05-23 18:23:38	KirkMcDonald	soft_concrete: The official tutorial is quite reasonable. https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/
2021-05-23 18:23:53	soft_concrete	I actually have that printed out in book form
2021-05-23 18:23:55	soft_concrete	I'll go grab it
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2021-05-23 18:24:14	soft_concrete	it's a couple years old now, but it should still do well enough for the basics, right?
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2021-05-23 18:25:30	KirkMcDonald	Yes.
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2021-05-23 18:27:16	soft_concrete	The one I have here is Python 3.7.0 from July 2018
2021-05-23 18:27:18	SnoopJ	The stuff you need to get going on day 1 hasn't changed in any earth-shattering ways, and many of the changes are likely because of new functionality. As far as a book, "Think Python" 2e is good, and free. "Automate the Boring Stuff With Python" is also good.
2021-05-23 18:27:40	soft_concrete	Yeah, I tried Think Python a couple years ago. never finished it
2021-05-23 18:28:07	SnoopJ	You're right that it's different than C, though. But then, any language with objects is :)
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2021-05-23 18:29:01	soft_concrete	haskell and lisp are pretty different from Python, aren't they?
2021-05-23 18:29:05	nicholatian	C has objects too, they’re just different
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2021-05-23 18:29:08	Evidlo	how does one join UserStrings?
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2021-05-23 18:30:21	SnoopJ	soft_concrete, in some ways yes, in other ways no
2021-05-23 18:30:38	Evidlo	sort of stupid that UserString('').join([UserString('abc'), UserString('def')]) doesn't work
2021-05-23 18:30:42	SnoopJ	nicholatian, what language feature is that?
2021-05-23 18:31:07	nicholatian	SnoopJ: it’s plastered all over the standard doc
2021-05-23 18:31:22	nicholatian	the formal definition of an object is probably there if you’re wondering
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2021-05-23 18:32:19	Evidlo	what's the point of UserStrings if I can't even use them like strings
2021-05-23 18:32:27	nicholatian	lol
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2021-05-23 18:34:27	SnoopJ	nicholatian, if you're referring to §3.15 in the C11 standard ("region of data storage in the execution environment, the contents of which can represent values"), then it may be easier to enumerate languages that don't have "objects"
2021-05-23 18:34:45	KirkMcDonald	Evidlo: There is very little point in UserString.
2021-05-23 18:34:55	nicholatian	SnoopJ: certainly. but it is there
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2021-05-23 18:35:18	SnoopJ	the word is
2021-05-23 18:35:20	SnoopJ	the concept is not
2021-05-23 18:36:02	nicholatian	i wouldn’t call objects a pairing of code and state necessarily
2021-05-23 18:36:09	KirkMcDonald	Evidlo: It hasn't really been relevant since, like... 2.2.
2021-05-23 18:36:18	KirkMcDonald	Evidlo: It was barely relevant before then.
2021-05-23 18:36:59	SnoopJ	nicholatian, what *would* you call them?
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2021-05-23 18:37:18	nicholatian	the C standard has a pretty nice definition imo
2021-05-23 18:37:27	nicholatian	it is nice to keep code and data conceptually separate
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2021-05-23 18:37:50	SnoopJ	Memory, then
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2021-05-23 18:38:32	nicholatian	SnoopJ: https://www.dataorienteddesign.com/dodbook/
2021-05-23 18:38:39	nicholatian	this is the school of thought i refer to
2021-05-23 18:38:49	Evidlo	ok, subclassing str directly seems to work here
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2021-05-23 18:38:58	SnoopJ	nicholatian, if you say so
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2021-05-23 18:41:17	nedbat	nicholatian: this is the tricky thing about language terminology: words are used in different ways in different places.
2021-05-23 18:41:30	nedbat	nicholatian: JSON also has objects.  Just not the kind that OOP is talking about.
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2021-05-23 18:41:50	nicholatian	javascript objects are quite nice
2021-05-23 18:41:57	SnoopJ	And to wrinkle things further: you can certainly write your own object system in C, which is exactly what CPython does
2021-05-23 18:42:22	nicholatian	that is along the lines of GObject, used by GNOME and Vala
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2021-05-23 18:42:48	nedbat	nicholatian: but JSON objects (and C objects) have no methods, or inheritance, so it's not OOP objects.
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2021-05-23 18:43:29	nicholatian	javascript objects have properties, and with first-class functions it’s practically the same as having methods
2021-05-23 18:43:53	nicholatian	inheritance is made redundant by prototyping
2021-05-23 18:44:21	nedbat	nicholatian: i was talking about JSON objects, not Javascript objects.
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2021-05-23 18:45:11	nicholatian	JSON is not a programming language
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2021-05-23 18:45:34	nedbat	nicholatian: ok, but C objects also have no methods, etc.
2021-05-23 18:45:50	nicholatian	right
2021-05-23 18:46:02	chilversc	an object in json is probably more accuratley named a struct or record
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2021-05-23 18:46:15	nedbat	nicholatian: the JSON standard and C standard both talk about objects, and neither of them are objects in the OOP sense.
2021-05-23 18:46:20	nicholatian	the closest thing would be function pointers, which is how they end up implemented under the hood
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2021-05-23 18:46:29	nicholatian	chilversc: yes, POD
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2021-05-23 18:46:43	SnoopJ	nicholatian, my point is that if you need to *implement* something, it wasn't just there to begin with
2021-05-23 18:46:46	chilversc	pod?
2021-05-23 18:46:51	SnoopJ	"plain old data"
2021-05-23 18:46:53	nicholatian	sure
2021-05-23 18:47:13	SnoopJ	(it's a C++ism)
2021-05-23 18:47:32	soft_concrete	if I wanted to iterate through each key in a dictionary and print out some value(s) associated with that key, how would I use a for loop to iterate through the keys?
2021-05-23 18:47:36	nicholatian	back in my day, the only data we had was plain and old
2021-05-23 18:47:39	 *	nicholatian shakes cane
2021-05-23 18:47:51	SnoopJ	yes, POD as a description exists pretty much exactly because C doesn't have objects
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2021-05-23 18:48:09	SnoopJ	and you need to be able to identify things that are sufficiently not-objecty to play nice with C without special machinery
2021-05-23 18:48:39	chilversc	thing is, everyone goes on about objects, but a large amount of code seems to be simple data objects and transaction scripts
2021-05-23 18:48:42	grawity	soft_concrete: dicts are iterable by themselves, so 'for x in mydict' gives you the keys, the same as '...in mydict.keys()' would, but you might also prefer 'for k, v in mydict.items()' in some cases
2021-05-23 18:52:01	soft_concrete	grawity: what do I put inside print() to print out the value associated with each key?
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2021-05-23 18:52:21	SnoopJ	usually you just print(the_dict)
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2021-05-23 18:52:36	grawity	it's still mydict[key] just like before
2021-05-23 18:52:36	SnoopJ	or `from pprint import pprint` and pprint() it instead, for a pretty-printed version :)
2021-05-23 18:52:56	sgt_chuckles	what's the proper way to merge dataframes
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2021-05-23 18:54:04	SnoopJ	sgt_chuckles, it depends on the particular operation. There is an entire part of the pandas documentation dedicated to this question: https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/user_guide/merging.html
2021-05-23 18:54:19	sgt_chuckles	I tried that, but couldnt get it to work properly
2021-05-23 18:54:21	sgt_chuckles	https://bpa.st/WNYA
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2021-05-23 18:55:16	SnoopJ	sgt_chuckles, what output did you expect there? The units in the indices aren't the same
2021-05-23 18:55:37	SnoopJ	(although indexing with a string is a little weird besides)
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2021-05-23 18:56:44	sgt_chuckles	https://bpa.st/WGXA
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2021-05-23 18:57:09	sgt_chuckles	they should be the same size and contain the same index
2021-05-23 18:58:36	sgt_chuckles	so If I get the indices to have the same name, the concatshould work?
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2021-05-23 18:59:05	SnoopJ	I couldn't tell you without the answer to the question I have asked you
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2021-05-23 19:04:33	sgt_chuckles	SnoopJ: The merged dataframe is just supposed to have the float values of amp in one column and of lat in the second
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2021-05-23 19:05:38	SnoopJ	sgt_chuckles, what should be done with the second Series that has values given in milliseconds, not amperes?
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2021-05-23 19:06:19	SnoopJ	oh, is "lat" short for latency?
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2021-05-23 19:06:58	sgt_chuckles	yes
2021-05-23 19:07:12	sgt_chuckles	amp = aplitude, lat = latency
2021-05-23 19:07:23	BrenBarn	So I guess the deal is that the units shouldn't be in the row index
2021-05-23 19:07:27	BrenBarn	(since the units differ in the two columns)
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2021-05-23 19:07:37	SnoopJ	yea, it would be a lot better if the Series had a proper temporal index here
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2021-05-23 19:07:45	SnoopJ	but I think I understand the goal now
2021-05-23 19:07:45	sgt_chuckles	the unit doesn't matter, I'm going to plot them to a graph
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2021-05-23 19:07:58	BrenBarn	concat has an `ignore_index` option to just slam the data in, that will probably work here
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2021-05-23 19:13:38	sgt_chuckles	I need the values in two separate columns besides each other, so when plotting the df the graph isn't spaced so much. The index doesn't matter that much right now
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2021-05-23 19:13:57	SnoopJ	It really does, it is precisely the reason your results are strange.
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2021-05-23 19:14:09	sgt_chuckles	ignore index either plotted them below each other or in the same way as given in the question
2021-05-23 19:14:40	sgt_chuckles	https://bpa.st/HJTA
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2021-05-23 19:20:17	sybariten	hey hey, i'd like to ask for some suggestions on how to solve a school exercise.
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2021-05-23 19:21:48	nedbat	sybariten: ask
2021-05-23 19:22:00	BrenBarn	@sgt_chuckles: Another brute-force way is do `pandas.DataFrame({"Amp": amp.values, "Lat": lat.values})`
2021-05-23 19:22:04	sybariten	i have a very simple terminal thing at the moment that looks for user input, it has a crude "menu system". Theres a while true loop that prints the menu and then theres an [if user input is Q] for quitting and the rest from 1-5 are elif cases that do different things. and the "else" is "you didnt type a valid menu choice".
2021-05-23 19:23:45	sybariten	Now, i'm supposed to extend this. I'm supposed to be able to give a command, to work with lists. So if the command is "storage", i should either be able to just drop the command storage and see the contents of my list, but i could also do something like "storage delete frisbee" to get rid of the item frisbee. Or "storage get football" to get "football" into the list.
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2021-05-23 19:24:12	dodobrain	hi all
2021-05-23 19:24:16	sybariten	I suppose i want to define an empty list and i also want a function. But what is a good way to define a function, so that it does something both when it doesnt get any arguments, and also does things with arguments?
2021-05-23 19:24:49	BrenBarn	well you can have default argument values
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2021-05-23 19:25:54	sgt_chuckles	BrenBarn: Didn't think about that before. Thanks!
2021-05-23 19:25:59	chilversc	sybariten: I would consider making each operation a separate function, such as display list, add to list, remove from list, etc
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2021-05-23 19:26:42	chilversc	sybariten: then you just need some way to parse (understand) the command and dispatch that command to the correct function
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2021-05-23 19:27:23	sybariten	BrenBarn: was that for me?
2021-05-23 19:28:20	sybariten	chilversc: well... i should maybe clarify that the command that the user should give should always start the same. So it should always be "storage". But with optional arguments. I dunno if that's compatible with that idea of yours?
2021-05-23 19:28:46	CustosLimen	hi, I am trying to mock a simple HTTP server: https://bpa.st/NCJA
2021-05-23 19:28:51	BrenBarn	Yes the "default values" thing was for you
2021-05-23 19:29:05	sybariten	"storage" lists the stuff you have, but "storage delete football" manipulates the list of objects
2021-05-23 19:29:09	CustosLimen	I want to be able to assert that do_GET is called
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2021-05-23 19:29:21	BrenBarn	but like chilversc said you may want to think more generally about a parser
2021-05-23 19:29:21	sybariten	BrenBarn:hm, i've used those before but i can't really see how they would be used now?
2021-05-23 19:29:32	CustosLimen	but if I run that, I get: TypeError: do_GET() missing 1 required positional argument: 'self'
2021-05-23 19:29:38	BrenBarn	like just because typing "storage" does a thing doesn't mean you have to have a function called `storage` that does that thing
2021-05-23 19:29:52	chilversc	sybariten: it will, so your top level function (the dispatcher) would be looking at those subcommands such as "storage delete", "storage add" etc, and dispatching that to the correct handler
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2021-05-23 19:30:13	CustosLimen	paste fits in here: https://github.com/RDFLib/rdflib/blob/master/test/test_sparqlstore.py
2021-05-23 19:31:08	chilversc	sybariten: the case of "storage" without a sub-command is just another case the dispatcher would handle, there's two common ways to handle that, either a default action, or to treat it as an error and print a list of valid sub-commands
2021-05-23 19:32:27	chilversc	sybariten: you can think of it as the dispatcher reading from left to right, poping arguments until it has enough to know which sub-command applies, then it hands off the remaining arguments to the appropriate handler
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2021-05-23 19:34:28	chilversc	sybariten: its the standard principle of decomposing the application into smaller units of code, so the dispatcher knows enough to route the command to the correct handler, the handler then knows what to do with the remaining arguments
2021-05-23 19:34:30	sybariten	BrenBarn: thats true, it will be handled by the menu While-loop
2021-05-23 19:35:29	chilversc	sybariten: the dispatcher probably wants to do some simple tokenisation as well, such as splitting the arguments by spaces, so that the handler functions can receive a simple array of arguments
2021-05-23 19:35:42	sybariten	chilversc: so if i understand you correctly, is it a case of defining a function with room for many arguments already from the beginning, and then there's an if loop inside the function definition that says "if there were no arguments given, just do this base thing" ?
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2021-05-23 19:36:46	chilversc	sybariten: sort of, more like that outer part which has the `if/elif` section doesn't actually perform the logic, its just the dispatcher deciding which function to call
2021-05-23 19:37:13	sybariten	Hmmm ok
2021-05-23 19:37:34	sybariten	it's all a bit vague to me now, i think i need to create the simplest possible example of this kind of function first
2021-05-23 19:38:18	sybariten	is dispatcher a very common programming term, or just somewhat common, or just something you used in this case now?
2021-05-23 19:38:39	chilversc	sybariten: what you want to avoid is one massive function that does everything, so you don't want a single function that knows how to add, delete, get and list as it tends to get a bit hard to read, instead you pull that "if" logic up one level
2021-05-23 19:39:24	sybariten	Hm
2021-05-23 19:39:25	chilversc	yeah, dispatcher and handler are pretty common terms for command based systems, though in a web system dispatcher is often called router, and the handler is called a controller
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2021-05-23 19:39:26	sybariten	Ok
2021-05-23 19:39:49	sybariten	think ive seen routers in Flask right?
2021-05-23 19:39:57	chilversc	but a dispatcher is really as simple as `if action == 'foo': do_foo(args); elif action == 'bar': do_bar(args`
2021-05-23 19:40:43	chilversc	you can get more cleaver such as having a mapping of action to handler in a dictionary, but I'd start by getting it to work in a simpler case first
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2021-05-23 19:45:29	chilversc	sybariten: you can think of the dispatcher as the module of code that decides what to do, and the handler is how to do it
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2021-05-23 19:45:52	chilversc	sybariten: and this kind of follows the way you might write the psedo-code in the begining, such as I would start at
2021-05-23 19:46:21	chilversc	sybariten: command loop: read command; parse command; handle command, that simple 3 statements in a while loop
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2021-05-23 19:47:59	sybariten	I just realized that at this point in the course we hadn't learned functions yet, i think. Hm. Interesting
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2021-05-23 19:49:55	chilversc	sybariten: now's probably a good time to have a quick read up on them then, as they're very useful for keeping code readable
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2021-05-23 20:02:40	sybariten	chilversc: absolutely, i've used them a lot in the past and know the basics. Its just that i realize, i should probably be able to solve this exercise without explicitly using functions
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2021-05-23 20:03:46	sybariten	i think most people took the input from the user and treated it as a list, and for instance seeing if the word "storage" was in that list.
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2021-05-23 20:04:05	sybariten	I will look more at this tomorrow, thanks for your help chilversc and BrenBarn !
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2021-05-23 20:05:28	chilversc	sybariten: you can, it would look pretty much identical in this case, only the code that would have been inside the function would now be directly in the body of the if/elif statement
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2021-05-23 20:13:09	CustosLimen	Here is repl with what I'm trying to do: https://replit.com/@iwana/WorthlessRawOptimization#main.py - I want to somehow assert that _do_GET gets called
2021-05-23 20:13:30	CustosLimen	But I get: TypeError: _do_GET() missing 1 required positional argument: 'self'
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2021-05-23 20:20:10	Deyaa	I need help
2021-05-23 20:21:07	aodn01	hi Deyaa, Welcome.
2021-05-23 20:21:23	mefistofeles	Deyaa: shoot!
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2021-05-23 20:27:21	Deyaa	I want to load configurations using laravel style
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2021-05-23 20:30:45	Deyaa	I want to be able to load variables from .py file
2021-05-23 20:31:34	mefistofeles	ok, what have you tried?
2021-05-23 20:31:43	CustosLimen	I also tried HandlerSpec = MagicMock(spec=Handler), and use HandlerSpec, but not working
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2021-05-23 20:39:58	a1paca	CustosLimen: I'm not familiar with the mock library but I can understand that the error of missing self is because the MagicMock object is not passing through the self
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2021-05-23 20:40:26	a1paca	You would want some Mock that is a descriptor instead of just a callable
2021-05-23 20:40:26	CustosLimen	I think the solution lies here: https://stackoverflow.com/a/41599695/1598080
2021-05-23 20:40:33	CustosLimen	trying it now
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2021-05-23 20:49:23	a1paca	There is a section on this in the docs https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.mock-examples.html#mocking-unbound-methods
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2021-05-23 20:50:30	a1paca	But yeah, not very familiar with the library so don't take my word for it. Do look up other available options
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2021-05-23 20:56:43	CustosLimen	a1paca: that is close, but the solution there does not forward to actual method
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2021-05-23 20:56:50	CustosLimen	I recall reading that some days back
2021-05-23 20:56:57	CustosLimen	forgot about it now
2021-05-23 20:57:06	CustosLimen	the spy_decorator works well
2021-05-23 20:57:33	CustosLimen	but now for some reason my http server is not returning any response :/
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2021-05-23 20:59:40	a1paca	Ah it doesn't forward, I see
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2021-05-23 21:00:28	jj27	Can someone help? I need to parse through a list of strings that contain "crypto map some_name <digit> some text after".  I need to dump all entries that match the same digit into a separate list, then when the digit changes, move on and create a new list.   I've been struggling for a little bit trying to get something to work...my code is a mess with all the things I've tried.
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2021-05-23 21:01:37	CustosLimen	jj27: what part do you need help with? Matching the digit?
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2021-05-23 21:01:47	CustosLimen	or deciding when to switch to a new list?
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2021-05-23 21:02:30	CustosLimen	I mean basically you would keep last_digit, and then check that against the current digit, and see the difference, and if it is different make a new list
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2021-05-23 21:02:43	CustosLimen	can you put your code in a repl or pastebin
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2021-05-23 21:04:28	jj27	CustosLimen: Deciding on when to switch to a new list.  I'll clean up the code and post it with sample output.
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2021-05-23 21:05:04	CustosLimen	but can't you just keep last_digit and then detect change by comparing that to the new digit you found?
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2021-05-23 21:05:56	BrenBarn	you could look at `itertools.groupby`
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2021-05-23 21:10:56	jj27	CustosLimen: I am doing that, but it seems to loop through the data multiple times. I think this is a case of I've been staring at it for too long so i'm sure i'm missing something simple.
2021-05-23 21:10:59	jj27	BrenBarn: will do, thanks
2021-05-23 21:11:04	jj27	Posting code in a sec.
2021-05-23 21:11:35	CustosLimen	I don't understand why this http server is not sending a response: https://bpa.st/IESA (output in docstring at the end)
2021-05-23 21:11:45	CustosLimen	I confirmed with curl that response is blank
2021-05-23 21:12:26	aodn01	CustosLimen if is death, *.*?
2021-05-23 21:12:49	CustosLimen	aodn01: not sure I follow what you mean
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2021-05-23 21:13:52	aodn01	like broken or disconnect maybe off?
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2021-05-23 21:14:35	CustosLimen	nevermind, I needed: self.end_headers() after send_response
2021-05-23 21:14:38	CustosLimen	that is annoying
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2021-05-23 21:14:52	aodn01	i was joking, Keep working, good Mr.
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2021-05-23 21:26:04	jj27	CustosLimen: here's the code in all of its glory. probably overkill, but idk.  https://bpa.st/EOAA
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2021-05-23 21:29:11	CustosLimen	jj27: 17 should be indented I believe
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2021-05-23 21:30:16	jj27	yes it looks like the copy/paste didn't transfer perfectly to the pastebin
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2021-05-23 21:32:58	CustosLimen	what is this: root_logger.error(f'{str(err)} at line {format(sys.exc_info()[-1].tb_lineno)} in <{__name__}>') ?
2021-05-23 21:33:04	CustosLimen	Can't you just use exc_info=True?
2021-05-23 21:33:54	jj27	I'm sure there are a lot of things I could do differently. New to python so just doing what has worked for me in examples I've found
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2021-05-23 21:34:21	CustosLimen	Can you check: https://ideone.com/eeyiJk
2021-05-23 21:34:43	CustosLimen	NameError: name 'crypto_map_seq' is not defined < can you explain why it should be?
2021-05-23 21:34:49	CustosLimen	Maybe the sample data is bad
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2021-05-24 18:38:22	--	Topic for #python is "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops │ #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-24 18:38:22	--	Topic set by supakeen (~user@python/site-packages/supakeen) on Thu, 20 May 2021 06:34:42
2021-05-24 18:38:23	--	Channel #python: 1428 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1428 normals)
2021-05-24 18:38:27	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-05-24 18:42:15	--	Topic for #python is "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops │ #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-24 18:42:15	--	Topic set by supakeen (~user@python/site-packages/supakeen) on Thu, 20 May 2021 06:34:42
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2021-05-24 18:45:44	dodobrain	am i allowed to modify class variables in subclasses?
2021-05-24 18:46:06	Peng	Attributes? Sure.
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2021-05-24 18:46:53	dodobrain	i dont mean simpyl reassign new values, but "extend" in some way, e.g. class Base: foo = {"number": 42}  class Child(Base): foo["string"] = "hello"
2021-05-24 18:46:57	dodobrain	something along those lines
2021-05-24 18:47:41	Yhg1s	dodobrain: the only way to do something like that would be with a custom metaclass or class decorator that assembles the data from the baseclasses and your subclass.
2021-05-24 18:48:18	dodobrain	Yhg1s, yeah i get the feeling that i need a class generator
2021-05-24 18:48:37	Yhg1s	or, maybe don't use classes, or class attributes, for this particular thing.
2021-05-24 18:49:07	dodobrain	because i have a need to create a bunch of classes but the only thing different between them are the "help_text" and "label" properties within a similar class attribue dict
2021-05-24 18:49:08	Peng	dodobrain: If that's valid syntax, you'd only have one foo dict, shared by both classes (and all instances)
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2021-05-24 18:49:33	Yhg1s	Peng: no, 'foo' isn't defined in the Child class body.
2021-05-24 18:49:43	Peng	Ah
2021-05-24 18:49:44	dodobrain	Peng, class Base: foo = 42   class Child(Base): foo = 'hello'
2021-05-24 18:49:54	dodobrain	child foo is *not* the same as Base foo
2021-05-24 18:50:13	Peng	dodobrain: That's different code
2021-05-24 18:50:26	dodobrain	Peng, i know it is different
2021-05-24 18:50:37	dodobrain	i just wanted a way to make it behave as i wanted it
2021-05-24 18:51:15	dodobrain	essentially child classes extending base class variables and not just overriding them to something else (or possibly the same structure but different values within)
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2021-05-24 18:51:58	dodobrain	seems weird to me that the child is allowed to completely override the attribute, but not use the base's attribute and modify it for local usage
2021-05-24 18:52:21	Yhg1s	dodobrain: it's not about what's allowed. It's about how classes are created.
2021-05-24 18:52:37	Yhg1s	dodobrain: the class body is executed in a new namespace, and the result is the namespace of class attributes.
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2021-05-24 18:53:04	Yhg1s	dodobrain: the execution of the class body doesn't involve the parent class, so you can't refer to parent class attributes in it.
2021-05-24 18:53:38	Yhg1s	(also, the parents of the class may be different in different situations, for example if subclasses multiply inherit from your class and other classes.)
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2021-05-24 18:54:30	dodobrain	meh.. i can do this
2021-05-24 18:55:08	dodobrain	class Base: foo={"number":42}      class Child(Base): foo = {**Base.foo, "string":"hello"}
2021-05-24 18:55:15	jonfen	insert into auth.credentials (username, attested_credential_data) values ('{username}', _binary"{attested_credential_data:b}")""".format(
2021-05-24 18:55:18	jonfen	                username=self._username, attested_credential_data=encoded_attested_credential_data)y
2021-05-24 18:55:21	dodobrain	this works nicely and exactly what i wanted
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2021-05-24 18:55:57	jonfen	how do i get pyformat to not include the b' part on a binary value?
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2021-05-24 18:56:10	jonfen	https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#format-specification-mini-language i haven't found a way to remove it
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2021-05-24 18:56:52	Yhg1s	jonfen: what's happening is that bytes objects don't have a string representation, so you're seeing the repr() of them.
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2021-05-24 18:56:57	grawity	if the value contains text, .decode() it to text first
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2021-05-24 18:57:12	grawity	if it doesn't contain text, why is it being put inside a string?
2021-05-24 18:57:14	Yhg1s	jonfen: don't try to format bytes in strings. Decode the bytes into strings, or format them in a different way. (What are you trying to do with bytes and formatting?)
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2021-05-24 19:03:32	ezakimak	trying to install a previous release of opencv-contrib-python-headless with pip3 install opencv-contrib-python-headless==4.1.1.26 but it says there's "no matching distribution found" for it, even though it's listed on pypy and pinwheels.org
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2021-05-24 19:06:11	SnoopJ	ezakimak, what interpreter version?
2021-05-24 19:06:33	-->	gambl0re (~gambl0re@unaffiliated/gambl0re) has joined #python
2021-05-24 19:06:35	akmod	Has anyone here made a pycharm plugin?
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2021-05-24 19:07:39	ezakimak	3.8.5
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2021-05-24 19:11:01	SnoopJ	ezakimak, that's the problem, then; that version only has wheels on PyPI through 3.7: https://pypi.org/project/opencv-contrib-python-headless/4.1.1.26/#files
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2021-05-24 19:11:28	ezakimak	I just need some version working on arm, I don't really care. but has to be 3.8
2021-05-24 19:11:40	ezakimak	just can't seem to get it installed
2021-05-24 19:12:31	SnoopJ	3.8 wasn't out when that version was published. You'll need to build your own
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2021-05-24 19:12:40	ezakimak	after building for an hour it errors out complaining that it couldn't build the wheel
2021-05-24 19:12:42	SnoopJ	(it was about a month ahead of the release)
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2021-05-24 19:13:17	ezakimak	issues say there may be something wrong with cmake breaking it
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2021-05-24 19:13:42	SnoopJ	could be some kind of change, hard to say without the information in the error report
2021-05-24 19:13:53	ezakimak	https://github.com/opencv/opencv-python/issues/366
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2021-05-24 19:14:08	ezakimak	https://github.com/opencv/opencv-python/issues/473
2021-05-24 19:14:14	ezakimak	I think those are the relevant issues
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2021-05-24 19:14:51	flux__aeon	anyone here good with elasticsearch?
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2021-05-24 19:17:50	subsume	not me
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2021-05-24 19:22:37	greyblue9	jiffe: maybe you could say its kind of part of the interpreter in that there's code to specifically ignore the typing hints :p
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2021-05-24 20:01:18	SnoopJ	greyblue9, ignore?
2021-05-24 20:02:16	greyblue9	skip over
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2021-05-24 20:02:25	SnoopJ	what code is that?
2021-05-24 20:02:30	greyblue9	wud be more accurate
2021-05-24 20:02:45	greyblue9	annotations, I thought
2021-05-24 20:03:18	greyblue9	they have no semantics was my understanding
2021-05-24 20:03:21	SnoopJ	"type hint" and "type annotation" are synonyms
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2021-05-24 20:03:36	greyblue9	exactly
2021-05-24 20:03:47	SnoopJ	greyblue9, so to what code are you referring?
2021-05-24 20:04:10	greyblue9	the part that parses them
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2021-05-24 20:04:54	SnoopJ	I wouldn't say the interpreter ignores them
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2021-05-24 20:05:09	greyblue9	you win, it's not worth an argument
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2021-05-24 20:05:30	SnoopJ	I was trying to understand if there was a feature I didn't know about
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2021-05-24 20:06:02	greyblue9	my apologies SnoopJ
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2021-05-24 20:07:14	greyblue9	but sounds like you know as much as I do in the area
2021-05-24 20:08:26	nedbat	jiffe: why do you want to add type checking to the interpreter?
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2021-05-24 20:42:29	stef204	hi, I am getting a python error and can't figure it out.  I must be missing a package or module perhaps? anything helpful feedback appreciated.
2021-05-24 20:42:49	stef204	this is the error: https://paste.xinu.at/R1EL/
2021-05-24 20:42:53	stef204	python 2
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2021-05-24 20:44:14	SnoopJ	stef204, looks like it's trying to run a file that doesn't exist on the disk
2021-05-24 20:44:33	stef204	SnoopJ:I can't tell which file
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2021-05-24 20:45:20	greyblue9	cud be that or the program interpreter, occasionally
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2021-05-24 20:45:46	stef204	I'm thinking i am missing a python package or something
2021-05-24 20:46:11	stef204	this is inside a VM with Ubuntu focal, which i created to compile this ROM
2021-05-24 20:46:33	stef204	i followed the instructions but there might be something missing, not sure
2021-05-24 20:46:33	greyblue9	stef204: what's in your home/$USER/android/lineage/build/make/tools/releasetools/common.py
2021-05-24 20:46:45	stef204	greyblue9:i can cat that file for you
2021-05-24 20:46:50	SnoopJ	the fact that $USER isn't being expanded seems suspicious to me
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2021-05-24 20:47:02	stef204	let me fire up the VM again
2021-05-24 20:47:16	greyblue9	SnoopJ: definitely
2021-05-24 20:47:21	SnoopJ	stef204, a simple way to find out what it's trying to run would be to drop a print() statement on Line 126 of common.py (3rd from the bottom of the stack trace)
2021-05-24 20:47:39	stef204	SnoopJ:$USER --> I replaced that in the paste, in reali life, it has the actual user name, when I run the script
2021-05-24 20:47:42	greyblue9	this isn't windows right?
2021-05-24 20:48:09	greyblue9	nvm u said Ubuntu
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2021-05-24 20:50:28	Sunny93	Is the meaning of the word "stub" in programming created by some programmers ? I mean, I look up the dictionary and didn't find anything definition related.
2021-05-24 20:50:55	greyblue9	the face $ISER is there is absolutely an issue
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2021-05-24 20:51:33	SnoopJ	greyblue9, they said that they edited the output to have $USER in place of the real string
2021-05-24 20:51:50	nedbat	Sunny93: stub means a small stand-in for a real thing
2021-05-24 20:51:53	greyblue9	ah, missed that.
2021-05-24 20:51:59	Roey[llfffs]	Sunny93: it's something that's meant to be implemented later
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2021-05-24 20:52:24	stef204	common.py -> https://paste.xinu.at/blp/
2021-05-24 20:53:20	Sunny93	Ok. So it's a tech term. Didn't find the definitions you mentioned in the dictionary.
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2021-05-24 20:58:08	stef204	greyblue9:let me know if you are able to see anything in common.py
2021-05-24 20:58:28	stef204	I'm still thinking i am missing a dependency or something of the sort
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2021-05-24 21:01:16	ranran8888	hi i can get in urlopen status code ?
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2021-05-24 21:03:33	SnoopJ	ranran8888, if you mean urllib.request.urlopen(), you can call getcode() on the resulting object. I would strongly recommend using the `requests` instead of `urllib`
2021-05-24 21:03:39	SnoopJ	the `requests` library*
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2021-05-24 21:27:40	ningu	I noticed that pyenv-virtualenvwrapper seems to be broken in pyenv 2.0.0. is there a recommended alternative? do people still use virtualenvwrapper much?
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2021-05-24 21:28:13	aum	quick question - with size based logfile rotation, when a .1 file is due to compress to a .2.gz, do logging calls block, or does the compression happen in a separate non-GIL-hogging thread?
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2021-05-24 22:21:39	ranran8888	if i want find wors diffent betwen two stings i need make it in loop to each word and cheack or have simple ? pack or way ?
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2021-05-24 22:23:10	tm007	worse difference between strings?
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2021-05-24 22:25:53	ningu	yeah what does that mean?
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2021-05-24 22:28:01	mihael	I have a script using `with concurrent.futures.ThreadPoolExecutor(max_workers=13) as executor` and it runs fine when run as a normal user. But when I run it as root, it seems to be not working properly. Is there some catch when running threading with root?
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2021-05-24 22:31:15	ranran8888	i mean like compre string and get what the change "the is example" "this is neww example" results = neww if try thiss https://dpaste.org/Y9h1 but i want get nly the neww
2021-05-24 22:31:23	ranran8888	tm007,ningu
2021-05-24 22:31:43	ningu	you need some sort of string diff algorithm for that. I'm sure there are modules for it
2021-05-24 22:32:40	ranran8888	sry i dont write same string i print only the +
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2021-05-24 22:33:22	ningu	ok, I see, you're already doing the string diff
2021-05-24 22:33:25	ningu	so what is the problem?
2021-05-24 22:33:43	ningu	there are multiple differences between the strings. how do you know which ones you want?
2021-05-24 22:33:45	ranran8888	https://dpaste.org/w4Yo no problem thxx
2021-05-24 22:33:56	ningu	ok
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2021-05-24 22:35:33	ranran8888	mihael what you mean not working properly ? the time the results what ?
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2021-05-24 22:36:10	stef204	I figure out it was en environment problem. sourced the proper files and OK now
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2021-05-24 22:42:30	humanBird	when I append() a dataframe to another dataframe, it shows up as a series instead of a dataframe when i try to reference the appended dataframe with iloc[-1]
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2021-05-24 22:46:14	greyblue9	ranran8888: the best string has what characteristics
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2021-05-24 22:48:00	humanBird	https://bpa.st/WAYQ   i'm appending a DataFrame.  does pandas internally convert dataframes into series? because that would be completely garbage and a bug.
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2021-05-24 22:49:37	humanBird	wait a minute.  append returns a series... but the inner append returns a DataFrame. what is going on here?
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2021-05-24 22:54:29	humanBird	oh. append is trying to concatenate? what a horrible name for this functionality
2021-05-24 22:54:50	humanBird	it's completely the wrong name for functionality
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2021-05-24 22:56:19	humanBird	at the same time there's another concat method which overlaps append functionality... very bad
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2021-05-24 23:33:48	humanBird	yep. gonna stop trying to nest data in pandas.  n-1 number of tables to do n dimensional data or use xarray
2021-05-24 23:34:47	humanBird	pandas just doesn't do tensors well. oh well.
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2021-05-24 23:35:49	mefistofeles	humanBird: xarray
2021-05-24 23:35:58	mefistofeles	oh, you mentioned it, yeah xD
2021-05-24 23:36:22	BrenBarn	append in pandas is not usually very useful
2021-05-24 23:36:52	BrenBarn	to do multi-dimensional stuff in pandas I find the best way is to just put the extra dimensions in as columns
2021-05-24 23:37:04	BrenBarn	but that makes more sense when the dimensions aren't just numerical sequences
2021-05-24 23:37:43	BrenBarn	<humanBird "oh. append is trying to concaten"> What is it you expected it to do?
2021-05-24 23:37:44	SnoopJ	I would say there's a strong case to be made that pandas cannot do "tensors" at all
2021-05-24 23:38:23	humanBird	like the way to do it in pandas is to have join tables... but no real way of drilling down through indices.
2021-05-24 23:38:59	humanBird	so you'll have df1, df2, df3 and join across that and be super slow and annoyed
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2021-05-24 23:39:33	mefistofeles	humanBird: yeah, that sounds awful
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2021-05-24 23:39:53	SnoopJ	but wait, there's more: the data aren't aligned in any meaningful way in memory!
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2021-05-24 23:42:59	BrenBarn	if you use a multiindex you can do some useful stuff
2021-05-24 23:43:25	BrenBarn	but there can be annoying corner cases
2021-05-24 23:44:56	humanBird	i'm gonna use something where shape() has meaning
2021-05-24 23:45:02	humanBird	np.shape
2021-05-24 23:45:48	SnoopJ	numpy is extremely good :)
2021-05-24 23:47:03	mefistofeles	thanks Fortran (?)
2021-05-24 23:47:05	mefistofeles	xD
2021-05-24 23:47:27	humanBird	i was hoping to use the pandas min max and other qualifying functions with queries like df.iloc[0][['col1','col2']].sum() == something but looks like i'll have to do this manually by hand
2021-05-24 23:47:45	mefistofeles	humanBird: xarray , I insist
2021-05-24 23:47:55	humanBird	yea. i'm gonna look at it.
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2021-05-24 23:48:43	SnoopJ	mefistofeles, a surprising amount of it is C
2021-05-24 23:49:10	mefistofeles	SnoopJ: yeah, but Fortran has a larger dramatic effect
2021-05-24 23:49:11	SnoopJ	...which *does* call into the BLAS and that is certainly likely to be Fortran
2021-05-24 23:50:36	humanBird	does it use lapack or just raw blas?
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2021-05-24 23:52:20	SnoopJ	humanBird, "raw BLAS" is kind of a contradiction, BLAS is a specification of a Basic Linear Algebra System, i.e. what a library must provide to do [fun linear algebra things]. NumPy can be built against several
2021-05-24 23:52:42	SnoopJ	OpenBLAS and Intel MKL are the ones that come immediately to mind but I think it supports others
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2021-05-24 23:53:43	SnoopJ	https://numpy.org/doc/stable/user/building.html#accelerated-blas-lapack-libraries
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2021-05-24 23:58:09	humanBird	hrm. does xarray supercede pandas?
2021-05-24 23:58:20	humanBird	in terms of functionality performance etc?
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2021-05-24 23:58:43	SnoopJ	they don't really have the same tasks in mind
2021-05-24 23:58:58	SnoopJ	but it takes explicit inspiration from pandas where they do overlap
2021-05-24 23:59:23	humanBird	they keep mentioning that the failings of pandas is motivation...
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2021-05-24 23:59:38	SnoopJ	for better or worse, pandas is a 2D library, and even that is kinda pushing it.
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2021-05-24 23:59:58	humanBird	if it's a better pandas, i'm all for it. i can use it in future projects instead of pandas
2021-05-25 00:00:00	SnoopJ	I'd say it's really 1D where the 2nd dimension is "I'm juggling a bunch of ndarrays behind the scenes"
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2021-05-25 00:03:41	humanBird	hrm. it uninstalled pandas and installed a newer version
2021-05-25 00:04:02	humanBird	i'm just gonna say it's a super set of functionality built on pandas until i run into some case
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2021-05-25 00:05:21	BrenBarn	can xarray have multiple types in the same array?
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2021-05-25 00:06:11	Jonno_FTW	anyone got a recomendation for an asyc redis library?
2021-05-25 00:07:19	humanBird	i'm reading the doc and it said something about "If you supply a pandas Series or DataFrame, metadata is copied directly:"  which implies it can take pandas dataframes as input
2021-05-25 00:07:20	SnoopJ	BrenBarn, no, it's a type-homogeneous structure
2021-05-25 00:07:48	SnoopJ	But a Dataset can contain many instances of DataArray
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2021-05-25 00:08:42	BrenBarn	right, okay, that's what I thought
2021-05-25 00:08:46	SnoopJ	If you're familiar with HDF5 or netCDF, the library has that kind of approach to data, but with ways to express operations over the data as well as the data itself.
2021-05-25 00:08:47	BrenBarn	that's a major difference from pandas
2021-05-25 00:08:53	SnoopJ	kiiiinda
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2021-05-25 00:09:33	SnoopJ	my understanding is that Series is to DataFrame in pandas what DataArray is to Dataset, in xarray
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2021-05-25 00:14:23	SnoopJ	Oh neat, I didn't realize that the FEniCS project was being sponsored by NumFOCUS (the org that sponsors xarray) now
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2021-05-25 00:15:31	SnoopJ	They sponsor another project that is related to the discussion of pandas/xarray, as well: https://www.pytables.org/
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2021-05-25 00:16:35	humanBird	yuck.  xarray install broke pandas.
2021-05-25 00:16:45	humanBird	something to do with Datareader being broken by changes
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2021-05-25 00:17:00	humanBird	import pandas as pd is now erroring
2021-05-25 00:17:43	BrenBarn	maybe a good idea to use separate environments
2021-05-25 00:17:51	SnoopJ	definitely a good idea
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2021-05-25 00:20:26	humanBird	i'm just testing what happens after i install this. i can revert
2021-05-25 00:20:41	humanBird	xarray also downgraded anaconda. what the
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2021-05-25 00:21:05	humanBird	maybe xarray isn't so good after all
2021-05-25 00:21:28	SnoopJ	sounds like something very strange has happened
2021-05-25 00:21:32	humanBird	why would it go to some version from 2019
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2021-05-25 00:21:44	humanBird	i did the xarray[complete] install
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2021-05-25 00:22:49	SnoopJ	the latest version requires 3.7 or later, do you perhaps have 3.6?
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2021-05-25 00:23:41	SnoopJ	oh hrm, no, there were multiple releases last year that supported 3.6. Weird
2021-05-25 00:23:53	mefistofeles	blame anaconda :P
2021-05-25 00:24:04	mefistofeles	well, you probably have conflicting packages
2021-05-25 00:24:25	humanBird	The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
2021-05-25 00:24:26	humanBird	  anaconda                                   2019.07-py37_0 --> custom-py37_1
2021-05-25 00:25:08	humanBird	this is kind of garbage
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2021-05-25 00:26:00	humanBird	looks like xarray isn't an option.
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2021-05-25 00:31:41	Lvl4Sword	What's the best thing to use for monitoring dbus on Linux with Python? I've tried subprocess with unbuffer/dbus-monitor, and am hoping to find something that puts everything within a dictionary/list.
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2021-05-25 00:37:39	usil	exit
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2021-05-25 00:42:29	ihatepapa	hey guys im new to this dicussion site
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2021-05-25 00:43:22	ihatepapa	self-learner on the way to become a data scientist
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2021-05-25 00:44:46	sabor	Lvl4Sword: https://pypi.org/project/dbus-python/
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2021-05-25 00:59:03	greyblue9	ihatepapa: congrats
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2021-05-25 01:45:08	humanBird	In [7]: data.values
2021-05-25 01:45:09	humanBird	Out[7]:
2021-05-25 01:45:09	humanBird	array([[ 0.4691123 , -0.28286334, -1.5090585 ],
2021-05-25 01:45:10	humanBird	       [-1.13563237,  1.21211203, -0.17321465]])
2021-05-25 01:45:18	humanBird	array is NOT a ndarray is it?
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2021-05-25 01:55:34	KirkMcDonald	humanBird: What does type(foo) say?
2021-05-25 01:55:52	humanBird	ok. it's just the way python outputs things that misleads you
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2021-05-25 01:56:05	humanBird	array is a very specific type.
2021-05-25 01:56:07	KirkMcDonald	It's just how ndarray.__repr__ is implemented.
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2021-05-25 01:56:52	humanBird	i wonder why they don't fix that.
2021-05-25 01:57:10	humanBird	ndarray and array are two different things.  printing that they are the same is just bad.
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2021-05-25 01:58:33	KirkMcDonald	It's usually not that ambiguous. And no one really uses array.array.
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2021-05-25 02:01:48	kosh	KirkMcDonald, interesting I do use array.array in some of my code
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2021-05-25 02:02:11	kosh	KirkMcDonald, as part of using DEAP (distributed evolutionary algorithms in python)
2021-05-25 02:02:20	humanBird	a dog and a dog in a dog house are different things.. we don't say they are the same because that's wrong heh
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2021-05-25 02:03:06	humanBird	simple simple simple logic... they even teach you this in computer science courses.
2021-05-25 02:04:34	KirkMcDonald	I think the last time I used array.array was when I needed a mutable array of bytes and bytearray didn't exist yet.
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2021-05-25 02:05:58	humanBird	if it's not useful anymore, then remove it.  dead code is dead code.  but anwyays the point still stands.  A != B and B==A is FALSE
2021-05-25 02:06:17	humanBird	it's proven the output is wrong.
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2021-05-25 02:06:42	KirkMcDonald	I'd imagine there are backward compatibility concerns.
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2021-05-25 02:06:48	kosh	https://deap.readthedocs.io/en/master/tutorials/basic/part1.html
2021-05-25 02:06:54	kosh	that is even still the suggested way of doing it
2021-05-25 02:07:16	kosh	KirkMcDonald, for deap we need a mutable array of some type and while you can use numpy it also creates a few problems sometimes
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2021-05-25 02:07:49	kosh	in most cases I just need a mutable array of doubles
2021-05-25 02:07:52	KirkMcDonald	humanBird: Changing the repr would break every doctest that uses numpy, for instance.
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2021-05-25 02:08:13	humanBird	versus the damage that noobs will face and not adopt numpy
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2021-05-25 02:08:26	KirkMcDonald	Eh.
2021-05-25 02:08:27	humanBird	because they are pissed at some super anti social passive aggressive output
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2021-05-25 02:08:36	KirkMcDonald	That seems a bit extreme.
2021-05-25 02:08:52	kosh	numpy is one of the most commonly used libraries in python
2021-05-25 02:08:55	humanBird	if it's wrong it's wrong.
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2021-05-25 02:08:59	humanBird	i'm just saying.
2021-05-25 02:09:00	KirkMcDonald	The primary constructor for the thing is np.array(), it's not like the output is so absurd.
2021-05-25 02:09:34	KirkMcDonald	Also if it were an array.array, it'd have a type code.
2021-05-25 02:09:41	kosh	KirkMcDonald, so what is the problem with numpy?
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2021-05-25 02:10:00	KirkMcDonald	kosh: I... don't think I had one?
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2021-05-25 02:10:11	humanBird	when you print a numpy array it's printed as array
2021-05-25 02:10:17	humanBird	not ndarray or whatever identifies it
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2021-05-25 02:10:35	kosh	why would that matter? you don't figure out a type by printing it
2021-05-25 02:10:35	KirkMcDonald	And when you print the string '123' it looks like an integer.
2021-05-25 02:10:51	Jonno_FTW	hello, I have an async server, but as soon as I call serve(), the program ends
2021-05-25 02:11:13	humanBird	array() is a specific type in python
2021-05-25 02:11:19	humanBird	and it's clearly printing array()
2021-05-25 02:11:23	KirkMcDonald	humanBird: Well now it's two types.
2021-05-25 02:11:30	humanBird	red is not green on a stop light
2021-05-25 02:11:39	KirkMcDonald	And has been since... the dawn of time approximatel.
2021-05-25 02:11:41	KirkMcDonald	approximately*
2021-05-25 02:11:57	humanBird	i'm still not wrong. in fact proveably correct via logic
2021-05-25 02:12:15	KirkMcDonald	Well that sounds boring.
2021-05-25 02:13:12	humanBird	you go reading a doc and you see array().  is it ndarray or not?  how many docs out there print array()
2021-05-25 02:13:37	kosh	if you just print it you see the list syntax
2021-05-25 02:13:38	KirkMcDonald	It is typically clear from context.
2021-05-25 02:13:43	kosh	if you want the type you don't print it
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2021-05-25 02:14:17	humanBird	don't have to use print( or print or anything like that for it to output
2021-05-25 02:14:53	humanBird	why even bother with the console output at all then
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2021-05-25 02:15:09	kosh	I don't understand your problem at all
2021-05-25 02:15:10	humanBird	it's just plain wrong + misleading
2021-05-25 02:15:25	kosh	in a debugger it shows the type
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2021-05-25 02:15:46	KirkMcDonald	The outputs of these types are actually pretty different.
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2021-05-25 02:16:43	kosh	also what is the console output
2021-05-25 02:17:05	kosh	objects have a string representation and an repr representation and designed for different purposes
2021-05-25 02:17:13	kosh	but neither has anything to do with a console
2021-05-25 02:17:38	KirkMcDonald	Like, https://bpa.st/NS6A
2021-05-25 02:18:02	KirkMcDonald	And that's even before the numpy array can have multiple dimensions.
2021-05-25 02:18:11	kosh	it just called __repr__
2021-05-25 02:18:40	kosh	why would it have the type in it?
2021-05-25 02:18:58	kosh	repr(5)  doesn't show it is an int
2021-05-25 02:19:00	humanBird	__repre__ is wrong then
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2021-05-25 02:19:11	humanBird	__repr__ *
2021-05-25 02:19:25	humanBird	array is keyword.
2021-05-25 02:19:53	KirkMcDonald	It isn't.
2021-05-25 02:20:19	KirkMcDonald	These are the keywords. https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords
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2021-05-25 02:20:35	KirkMcDonald	It isn't even a builtin.
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2021-05-25 02:21:26	humanBird	https://docs.python.org/3/library/array.html says it's part of the standard library and for all practical reasons array is reserved
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2021-05-25 02:21:41	humanBird	you aren't going to array = "hahaha time to frankenstein"
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2021-05-25 02:21:56	humanBird	anyways it's wrong. no reason to argue anymore
2021-05-25 02:22:06	KirkMcDonald	I mean you keep saying that.
2021-05-25 02:22:42	KirkMcDonald	But there is a reason we have namespaces.
2021-05-25 02:22:44	humanBird	well. you can figure out the logic if you wish. no reason to explain it again
2021-05-25 02:23:01	afidegnum	hi, can you please assist with this explanation from tkinkter? tree["columns"]=("one","two","three") \n tree.column("#0", width=270, minwidth=270, stretch=tk.NO) what does "#0" represents?
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2021-05-25 02:23:23	afidegnum	the same as in  tree.heading("#0",text="Name",anchor=tk.W) ?
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2021-05-25 02:25:00	KirkMcDonald	afidegnum: https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html#column-identifiers
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2021-05-25 02:27:16	afidegnum	KirkMcDonald: care to explain this ? "Column #0 always refers to the tree column, even if show=”tree” is not specified."
2021-05-25 02:27:47	afidegnum	because #n already specifies list of columns with their labels aready
2021-05-25 02:27:47	KirkMcDonald	I know basically nothing about tk.
2021-05-25 02:28:00	KirkMcDonald	But them's the docs.
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2021-05-25 02:33:23	breadmonster	Hey folks
2021-05-25 02:33:38	breadmonster	I can't seem to install a pypi package with pip
2021-05-25 02:34:21	breadmonster	https://pypi.org/project/tensorflow-decision-forests/
2021-05-25 02:34:32	breadmonster	This is the package I try to install, but pip gives me a strange error
2021-05-25 02:34:36	breadmonster	ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement tensorflow-decision-forests (from versions: none)
2021-05-25 02:34:40	breadmonster	Any advice on how to fix this?
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2021-05-25 02:38:50	humanBird	Python :: 3
2021-05-25 02:38:51	humanBird	Python :: 3 :: Only
2021-05-25 02:38:51	humanBird	Python :: 3.6
2021-05-25 02:38:52	humanBird	Python :: 3.7
2021-05-25 02:38:52	humanBird	Python :: 3.8
2021-05-25 02:38:53	humanBird	Python :: 3.9      breadmonster  are you on any python version not in this list?
2021-05-25 02:38:57	humanBird	3.9.5 is also not in this list
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2021-05-25 02:39:18	Jonno_FTW	humanBird: pls dont paste like that
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2021-05-25 03:10:02	voldial	What's the fastest way to get from numpy.array([1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0,], dtype=numpy.int64) to b'Z'? I dont control the ndarray, a lib hands it to me, but I want to seralize it for comparison later (it's a phash PDQ).
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2021-05-25 03:13:53	Jonno_FTW	voldial: you can't reinterpret the data to an int since each element is an in64
2021-05-25 03:13:57	Jonno_FTW	*int64
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2021-05-25 03:14:50	voldial	Jonno_FTW: I know, I want to cast the elements as bits
2021-05-25 03:15:08	voldial	the domain is [0,1]
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2021-05-25 03:15:31	Jonno_FTW	voldial: maybe this is what you want https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/generated/numpy.packbits.html
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2021-05-25 03:21:05	mawk	>>> array = 'humanBird is wrong'
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2021-05-25 03:22:24	voldial	Jonno_FTW: indeed. Thanks!:) numpy.packbits(numpy.array([0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0,], dtype=numpy.int64)).tobytes() -> b'Z'
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2021-05-25 03:25:16	Jonno_FTW	voldial: only if you reverse the bit order in the input
2021-05-25 03:25:42	voldial	Jonno_FTW: lost me.. I'm not expecting to deal with littleendin...
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2021-05-25 03:26:21	Jonno_FTW	oh you added an extra 0 at the start
2021-05-25 03:26:33	voldial	Jonno_FTW: yea, oops:)
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2021-05-25 03:38:10	isomari	greetings, IS it possible to convert app install by pip as root to being installed by a user?
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2021-05-25 03:39:24	nerdraven	not really
2021-05-25 03:39:45	isomari	ok, is there a way to tell which app  were installed as root?
2021-05-25 03:39:48	nerdraven	though you can copy the files from the site-packages to the user
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2021-05-25 03:40:16	isomari	nerdraven: I thought of that but I dodn't kow if I would break something
2021-05-25 03:40:40	nerdraven	you'll never know till you try
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2021-05-25 03:41:17	isomari	I love an adventure so here goes nothing........
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2021-05-25 03:43:52	nerdraven	remember to keep a backup
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2021-05-25 03:45:36	veek	is there a way to extract a function/method signature from a user defined class. tried inspect.signature doesn't work for  setTitleColumns <class 'PyUNO_callable'>
2021-05-25 03:48:01	nerdraven	Is it a c/c++ extension
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2021-05-25 03:49:39	isomari	nerdraven: I guess I've been a good boy.There are no modules installed under root. They are all under my user account. :-)
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2021-05-25 03:50:37	veek	nerdraven, no idea -part of libreoffice so likely yes
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2021-05-25 03:54:20	isomari	can I safely move modules from 3.8 and 3.7 to the 3.9 folder sor do I have to reinstall them?
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2021-05-25 04:00:22	ooocamel	I'm learning Pandas.
2021-05-25 04:00:42	nerdraven	Nice, what is it about
2021-05-25 04:00:45	ooocamel	could anyone give me a pseudocode or hints about this?
2021-05-25 04:00:54	ooocamel	https://bpa.st/IAJQ
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2021-05-25 04:03:12	ooocamel	I tried this:
2021-05-25 04:03:13	ooocamel	    df = pd.DataFrame(users)
2021-05-25 04:03:13	ooocamel	    print(df.query('article_id == "U_2"').to_dict("records"))
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2021-05-25 04:06:35	Sunny93	Is this channel gonna migrate in the future or just have both in freenode and libera?
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2021-05-25 04:12:47	isomari	should modules in my ~/.local/lib be part of LD_LIBRRY_PATH?
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2021-05-25 04:15:53	kosh	Sunny93, I think it is likely we will migrate but no decision made yet
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2021-05-25 04:25:15	Sunny93	ok thanks for the info. Coz the topic are funny in libra lol. They are symmetric
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2021-05-25 04:27:40	eyepeetee	why is it that this pandas dataframe doesn't include Datetime as a column but lists it when printed?
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2021-05-25 04:31:38	afidegnum	how do i fix the geometry manager? I have this error: _tkinter.TclError: cannot use geometry manager pack inside . which already has slaves managed by grid. from this code: https://dpaste.org/wKgs
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2021-05-25 04:37:28	kosh	afidegnum, sorry no idea on that one, I have not use tkinter in a VERY long time
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2021-05-25 04:38:47	Miroboru	Quick question: I am looking at the source code from torchvision, and this construct pops up:
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2021-05-25 04:38:50	Miroboru	features: List[nn.Module] = [ConvBNReLU(3, input_channel, stride=2, norm_layer=norm_layer)]
2021-05-25 04:38:57	Miroboru	Or for short
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2021-05-25 04:39:15	Miroboru	foo: --- some code  here ---
2021-05-25 04:39:27	Miroboru	WHat does this mean? Is foo a tag or someting?
2021-05-25 04:39:36	ZenixOwler	just wondering, if i use pip to install a lib as root and use pip to install it as a normal user, does it have any minor impact upon the privilege set of each lib ?
2021-05-25 04:39:41	ZenixOwler	and the system in general
2021-05-25 04:40:06	kosh	it doesn't change the privilege of each lib
2021-05-25 04:40:17	kosh	HOWEVER! don't install a lib as root
2021-05-25 04:40:33	kosh	your system python is needed by the system to work correctly
2021-05-25 04:40:53	kosh	if you use pip to install stuff to it you can break it badly and may even break your os
2021-05-25 04:41:19	kosh	please use some kind of python virtualenv and install into that
2021-05-25 04:41:23	kosh	you can also use conda
2021-05-25 04:41:30	kosh	but don't pip install into the system python
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2021-05-25 04:45:02	ZenixOwler	kosh: well like how can it even break my os ? i kinda install new libraries to the system python, not uninstalling anything
2021-05-25 04:45:47	kosh	because installing a library coudl require updating a dependency and that dependency can also be used by the os and upgrading the dependency can change behavior
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2021-05-25 04:46:33	ZenixOwler	oh ok get it
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2021-05-25 04:47:01	ZenixOwler	kosh: also but by what you said, you meant there is actually two pythons on my system ? one is usable by normal users and the other is specialized by root
2021-05-25 04:47:02	ZenixOwler	?
2021-05-25 04:47:15	ZenixOwler	or it's just one in general but they do some tricks with sticky bits
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2021-05-25 04:47:49	kosh	in linux distributions there is one system python
2021-05-25 04:48:07	kosh	it is ONLY tested with the packages that are in the distribution and only with those versions and packages
2021-05-25 04:48:12	kosh	you should not use pip to install to it
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2021-05-25 04:48:41	kosh	pyton has the ability to create virtual environments so you can use the system python to make a virtualenv in your home directory
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2021-05-25 04:48:50	kosh	and then install anything you want there
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2021-05-25 04:50:54	ZenixOwler	kosh: well but it doesn't seem to hurt if i use pip directly, just don't do it via sudo
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2021-05-25 05:08:30	IoannisJVM	Hello, i'm getting this error from pyomo pyomo.common.errors.ApplicationError: No executable found for solver 'cbc' . Did anyone face that before?
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2021-05-25 05:12:51	bjs	IoannisJVM: it sounds like it wants you to install some kind of third-party "cbc" solver to do whatever it is you asked it to do
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2021-05-25 05:22:22	IoannisJVM	yes,i figured that out! ty!
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2021-05-25 05:48:38	IHasFinger	Hi everyone, I wanted to create a list of days started from 08 may 2019 until 24 may 2021 so far I got to this point but am stuck on the logic of what to do next. https://bpa.st/AJVA thanks
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2021-05-25 05:59:55	IoannisJVM	i have a function that returns a list of objects and i need to pass it to a json and make a POST request
2021-05-25 06:00:15	IoannisJVM	but i'm getting object is not JSON serializable
2021-05-25 06:00:37	IoannisJVM	i tried to convert it to string with json.dumps()
2021-05-25 06:00:41	IoannisJVM	but still the same
2021-05-25 06:00:50	Ninpo	share the code and traceback to https://bpa.st/+python
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2021-05-25 06:02:45	IoannisJVM	https://bpa.st/RH3A
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2021-05-25 06:06:20	Ninpo	there is no traceback there
2021-05-25 06:06:38	IoannisJVM	oops sorry
2021-05-25 06:06:40	Ninpo	what is get_EMS
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2021-05-25 06:08:04	IoannisJVM	https://bpa.st/LZXQ
2021-05-25 06:08:25	IoannisJVM	Ninpo it returns a list of Objects
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2021-05-25 06:10:15	Ninpo	You can't just json.dumps a class object which seems to be what you're attempting to do
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2021-05-25 06:11:17	Ninpo	https://realpython.com/lessons/serializing-json-data/
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2021-05-25 06:13:16	daregap	hey, is there an existing python package that lets users visually create and modify flowcharts? I'm not talking about creating pictures of flow charts, I'm talking about dynamic flowcharts where you can place bubbles on the screen and then connect them with arrows by using the mouse. Something akin to what GNU Radio has in place.
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2021-05-25 06:27:08	IHasFinger	Hi everyone, I wanted to create a list of days started from 08 may 2019 until 24 may 2021 so far I got to this point but am stuck on the logic of what to do next. https://bpa.st/AJVA thanks
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2021-05-25 07:01:40	stevieh	IHasFinger: TBH I do not really see, where you are stuck? you create a datetime entry for the start date and add two days and loop until you have reached the actual date?
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2021-05-25 07:05:05	IHasFinger	stevieh, yeah thats what should be done but i dont know how
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2021-05-25 07:06:27	stevieh	have a look at the datetime object and how to do math with it. what defintitely goes is to get seconds from the epoch of it and add 48*3600 :-)
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2021-05-25 07:24:25	Falc	Hello. Does anyone know how I would go about making changes to the template for console_scripts?
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2021-05-25 07:25:13	ChrisWarrick	Falc: you’d probably need to look into setuptools
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2021-05-25 07:33:51	Falc	Huh, turns out it gets formatted at install time, meaning the template is in the pip code. And if another tool gets used, it'll have its own template
2021-05-25 07:34:24	Falc	Well at least I can scratch this possible solution to my problem off the list
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2021-05-25 07:47:22	betuxy	Hey guys, i have some trouble parsing a nested json from an API which has multiple objects as well, i tried creating a list and appending in a loop but that didnt work quite right. e.g. https://bpa.st/U6RQ
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2021-05-25 07:49:43	ChrisWarrick	betuxy: show your code and desired output?
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2021-05-25 07:50:14	jancoow	Hi; im trying to set up a pymodbus asynio tcp server; however I keep getting coroutine 'BaseEventLoop.create_server' was never awaited
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2021-05-25 07:50:27	jancoow	I dont fully understand how to run this on the asyncio loop..
2021-05-25 07:51:04	jancoow	What i'm currntly doing is test = StartTcpServer(context=self.context, address=("", 5020), identity=self.identity) loop.run_until_complete(test)
2021-05-25 07:51:32	ChrisWarrick	jancoow: show your full code
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2021-05-25 07:52:43	jancoow	ChrisWarrick that is basically the full code
2021-05-25 07:52:45	jancoow	ignore the vars
2021-05-25 07:53:02	ChrisWarrick	jancoow: no, it isn’t the full code
2021-05-25 07:53:12	jancoow	    loop = asyncio.new_event_loop()   asyncio.set_event_loop(loop)
2021-05-25 07:53:15	jancoow	now it is ;p
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2021-05-25 07:54:00	jancoow	anyway; the current code doesn't matter; I just dont understand how I can attach it to the currnt loop
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2021-05-25 07:54:31	Yhg1s	jancoow: it's hard to tell *what* you're trying to 'attach to the current loop', because you've pasted unclear snippets of code. We also haven't seen the traceback.
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2021-05-25 07:55:19	jancoow	Yhg1s I just want an example :/
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2021-05-25 07:55:59	Yhg1s	jancoow: I don't know *of what*. Calling a coroutine? Scheduling a coroutine?
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2021-05-25 07:57:05	jancoow	https://github.com/riptideio/pymodbus/blob/asyncio-bug-fixes/examples/common/asyncio_server.py
2021-05-25 07:57:11	jancoow	here they only run one thing
2021-05-25 07:57:16	jancoow	but that's not really on the loop
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2021-05-25 07:57:41	Yhg1s	jancoow: I'm not sure what part you mean. The asyncio.run() call?
2021-05-25 07:58:27	jancoow	ye
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2021-05-25 07:59:14	Yhg1s	jancoow: okay, asyncio.run() is how you start the loop and run a coroutine in it. Those two things can be separated. IF you're already in a coroutine you can await other coroutines, or you can wrap them in tasks to schedule them.
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2021-05-25 08:08:59	jancoow	Yhg1s mmh..
2021-05-25 08:09:15	jancoow	so basically if I should await it it should run..
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2021-05-25 08:10:19	Yhg1s	jancoow: you should await if you want the result.
2021-05-25 08:10:24	Yhg1s	you should schedule it if you want it to run.
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2021-05-25 08:16:41	jancoow	ah..
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2021-05-25 08:18:21	jancoow	switching from 3.9 to 3.6 also returns no error lol
2021-05-25 08:18:24	jancoow	neither is it working but
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2021-05-25 08:19:15	Yhg1s	that's just because Python 3.6 doesn't warn you about the thing you're doing wrong, like 3.9 does.
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2021-05-25 08:28:15	amogorkon	Yhg1s, would you have a moment?
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2021-05-25 08:32:16	amogorkon	i think use() is complete enough to fully benefit from a critical review
2021-05-25 08:33:03	amogorkon	at least with regard to the import machinery
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2021-05-25 08:35:08	ibrar	hi! Is there any way to get from a method the path of the file where the object has been instanced?
2021-05-25 08:35:21	amogorkon	the main functionality mostly works, internal dependency graph, relative import of online sources and aspect-oriented decorators is something i'll add in the future
2021-05-25 08:35:28	Yhg1s	ibrar: the object? No.
2021-05-25 08:35:36	Yhg1s	amogorkon: I don't know what use() is.
2021-05-25 08:35:49	amogorkon	Yhg1s, the alternative import i've been working on
2021-05-25 08:36:14	ibrar	Yhg1s: oh, okay thanks!
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2021-05-25 08:39:40	Falc	ibrar: if you wrote the class, you could store it in the object
2021-05-25 08:39:53	amogorkon	Yhg1s, remember? i asked you about importlib and whether you might be available to check my code
2021-05-25 08:40:11	Yhg1s	amogorkon: I still have no idea what you want me to look at.
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2021-05-25 08:40:49	amogorkon	Yhg1s, https://github.com/amogorkon/use/blob/main/src/use/use.py
2021-05-25 08:41:21	amogorkon	mainly the use of importlib, specs etc.
2021-05-25 08:41:53	amogorkon	it works for python 3.8, but i'm not sure how future-proof it is
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2021-05-25 08:43:59	Yhg1s	amogorkon: it doesn't seem to use importlib much, so I'm not sure what you want me to review. (I do not believe what you want to *achieve* is sensible, reasonable, desireable or at all attainable, as evidenced by the many attempts to get similar things in the past.) As I mentioned before, if you're worried about imp being deprecated (as you probably should be), you can use types.ModuleType() instead.
2021-05-25 08:44:20	ibrar	Falc: yes, this is what I will do, just wanted to know if there was any hacky way to avoid it (I know...).
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2021-05-25 08:44:39	amogorkon	Yhg1s, what i want to achieve, i already did ^^
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2021-05-25 08:45:20	amogorkon	types.ModuleType(name) instead of imp.new_module(name)?
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2021-05-25 08:45:59	Yhg1s	yes.
2021-05-25 08:46:09	Yhg1s	or, say, type(sys)(name)
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2021-05-25 08:46:41	amogorkon	okay
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2021-05-25 08:50:41	Falc	ibrar: I might actually contradict Yhg1s a bit, since you do get the filename printed if there's an uncaught exception when executing the method.
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2021-05-25 08:52:23	amogorkon	Falc, i think both statements are true, depending on interpretation
2021-05-25 08:52:44	ibrar	Falc: I'm not sure how exceptions work but I guess they move from "inside to out" so you're not technically inside the method definition (?) Again, I have no idea.
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2021-05-25 08:53:03	amogorkon	you can try to use a traceback to get your info
2021-05-25 08:53:49	Falc	amogorkon: I don't dispute that, it's why I said I was contradicting Yhg1s "a bit"
2021-05-25 08:54:10	amogorkon	or you could try to use inspect.currentframe()
2021-05-25 08:54:23	amogorkon	inspect.getframeinfo(inspect.currentframe())
2021-05-25 08:54:23	ibrar	Falc: yes, I'm just thinking out loud
2021-05-25 08:54:37	amogorkon	that can be useful too
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2021-05-25 08:57:24	sybariten	'ello python
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2021-05-25 08:57:41	Falc	ibrar: the main concern is, do you want to find the info when you simply have the object and its method, or during the call of the method. Frames (which is what an exception traceback works with) would only work in the latter case, as fas as I understand it
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2021-05-25 08:58:30	sybariten	so i'm taking user input using menuchoice = input("write something") , and then i'm turning that to a list using words = menuchoice.split()
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2021-05-25 08:58:57	sybariten	then i want to check if the fourth item in that list is an integer. But i'm guessing anything that comes in, will be a string right? Thjats what my tests say...
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2021-05-25 08:59:53	sybariten	If so, whats the logical way to test this?
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2021-05-25 09:01:37	MrFantastik	sybariten: https://stackoverflow.com/a/1267145
2021-05-25 09:01:46	MrFantastik	might be a good starting point
2021-05-25 09:01:49	phx	morning
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2021-05-25 09:02:17	phx	i'm trying to create a package, but when i do -m build i'm getting an error /usr/local/bin/python3.8: No module named build. could someone please give me some hints what's wrong here? system is fbsd13
2021-05-25 09:02:17	MrFantastik	although stuff like "+1223" will parse as an int, is that an acceptable integer input?
2021-05-25 09:02:47	acresearch	people, float(50) --> 50.0   how can i make it print 50.000 or 150.00 ?  always 6 charachter with the decimil?
2021-05-25 09:02:48	MrFantastik	there is also "12".isdigit()
2021-05-25 09:03:34	MrFantastik	acresearch:  you are looking for Decimal
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2021-05-25 09:03:51	MrFantastik	https://docs.python.org/3/library/decimal.html
2021-05-25 09:04:23	acresearch	MrFantastik: ok let me try
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2021-05-25 09:05:20	ELFrederich	Does PyCharm use mypy under the hood for the type hinting?
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2021-05-25 09:06:39	acresearch	MrFantastik: no i don't think this is the best method, because i need to keep the number of charachters constant, not the number of decimal places
2021-05-25 09:06:45	sybariten	MrFantastik: well yes for this tiny school exercise i think thats no problem
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2021-05-25 09:07:14	MrFantastik	sybariten:  perfect!
2021-05-25 09:07:23	logithack	Imagine you're dealing with a Python application which allows users to run query jobs. Each job runs in a thread, sends commands and receives reports, which are to be saved so the user can download them later. I was thinking of managing the persistent info about each job (ID, User, Start time, Stop time, Reports) in an SQLite database. However, it is conceivable that there might be scenarios where the size of the reports collected in one job
2021-05-25 09:07:23	logithack	(i.e. the "Reports" column) could become as large as 27 GB. Is it feasible to do that in an SQLite database or would you recommend a different approach?
2021-05-25 09:07:27	Yhg1s	Falc: you can't see where the object was *instantiated* from the method, just where the method was *called from*, which is quite different.
2021-05-25 09:07:50	MrFantastik	acresearch:  okie to clarify, 150.000 and 50.0000 are the representations that you want of numbers?
2021-05-25 09:08:13	MrFantastik	may I also ask why? lol
2021-05-25 09:08:18	Yhg1s	acresearch: you may just be looking for string formatting here.
2021-05-25 09:08:52	ibrar	Yhg1s: for my usage I will be initializing the class (with a constructor
2021-05-25 09:09:09	Yhg1s	ibrar: I'm not sure what you're asking for then.
2021-05-25 09:09:14	sybariten	MrFantastik: so basically they are tryuing to actively _turn_ it into an integer?  Which, i guess, is exactly what i will need to do because everything i will get on that list item will _always_ be a string after user input, even if they input an integer
2021-05-25 09:09:21	Falc	Yhg1s: ah yes, it seems we read the question slightly differently
2021-05-25 09:09:24	acresearch	MrFantastik: Yhg1s probabli yes string formatting, but also lots of zeros for whole numbers to fill the 6 charachter spaces... i am writing a .pdb file and this is the required format to be undersood my the problam PyMOL   6 places: https://zhanglab.ccmb.med.umich.edu/COFACTOR/pdb_atom_format.html
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2021-05-25 09:09:51	Yhg1s	acresearch: you can tell string formatting how much you want to pad.
2021-05-25 09:10:03	ibrar	Yhg1s: sorry, formatting error, I meant that I could use frames that way too, but I see how its not technically what I was asking.
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2021-05-25 09:10:15	acresearch	Yhg1s: so far i have this: {:6}
2021-05-25 09:10:18	Yhg1s	acresearch: for example, f'{your_float:.6f}'
2021-05-25 09:10:18	ibrar	anyway, thanks Yhg1s and Falc
2021-05-25 09:10:38	Yhg1s	ibrar: I'm still not sure what you're asking for
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2021-05-25 09:11:30	MrFantastik	Yhg1s acresearch  something like f'{your_float:.6f}' would be nice in a __str__ and __repr__ method too
2021-05-25 09:11:30	MrFantastik	 
2021-05-25 09:12:05	Falc	logithack: I'd be a bit more worried about running out of disk space, than whether the SQL could keep up...
2021-05-25 09:12:13	acresearch	in f'{your_float:.6f}'  how do i add my variable?    f'{{}:.6f}'.format(x)  ?
2021-05-25 09:12:20	acresearch	sorry new info for me
2021-05-25 09:12:20	Yhg1s	acresearch: your_float is your variable.
2021-05-25 09:12:25	acresearch	ahhh ok
2021-05-25 09:12:54	ibrar	Yhg1s: to get the path where an object has been instanced from inside a method. I'm not asking anything as of now (I will just give the path as an argument).
2021-05-25 09:13:22	ibrar	the path of the python file
2021-05-25 09:13:24	Yhg1s	ibrar: that still sounds like the question I answered? The instantiation and a later method call are not related.
2021-05-25 09:13:41	Yhg1s	ibrar: you can only figure out where an object is being instantiated from *during instantiation*.
2021-05-25 09:13:42	acresearch	Yhg1s: but i still get 6 decimal places rather than 6 total number of charachters
2021-05-25 09:13:53	bjs	ibrar: if you have `def f(self, ...): ...` you cannot know where "self" was created.
2021-05-25 09:14:06	ibrar	Yhg1s: yes. I'm not making any new question. Its already answered.
2021-05-25 09:14:20	Falc	ibrar: if you define the class and method in file A, but then "import A" in file B AND instantiate the class in file B, do you want to find A or B?
2021-05-25 09:14:23	bjs	ibrar: on `def __init__(self, ...): ...` you can check by looking at the stack, and remembering, if you really care.
2021-05-25 09:15:12	ibrar	Falc: B
2021-05-25 09:15:22	MrFantastik	acresearch:  naive solution is if the string after formatting's length is greater than 6, cast the string to a list, pop values off the string unitl the list is the right length, and then cast abck to a string
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2021-05-25 09:15:23	sybariten	MrFantastik: that was an elegant solution , thank you!
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2021-05-25 09:15:33	MrFantastik	:)
2021-05-25 09:16:20	acresearch	MrFantastik: ahhh, i think this is too comlicated for a simple solution, i just have to find it
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2021-05-25 09:16:27	ibrar	bjs: I will check out how you look at the stack, etc... anyway, thanks for the answers
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2021-05-25 09:17:23	Yhg1s	MrFantastik: no need to turn it into a list, just slice.
2021-05-25 09:17:40	MrFantastik	Yhg1s: even better
2021-05-25 09:17:43	Yhg1s	acresearch: if you want to lose precision depending on the size of the integer part, yes, that's not as straight-forward.
2021-05-25 09:17:44	Falc	logithack: also, as far as I'm aware, SQLite's main weakness is concurrent access to the same database, so you'd have to judge that yourself
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2021-05-25 09:18:39	MrFantastik	f'{50:.6f}'[:7]
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2021-05-25 09:19:00	MrFantastik	where in this 50 is your_float
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2021-05-25 09:20:04	MrFantastik	its gonna break on 1234567890 though
2021-05-25 09:20:20	Yhg1s	and potentially provide unexpected results for 12.34567.
2021-05-25 09:20:38	Evolver	How do I replace things like `&amp;` with `&`?
2021-05-25 09:20:59	Yhg1s	Evolver: generally speaking, you parse your HTML or XML with an appropriate parser.
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2021-05-25 09:21:15	Evolver	Falc: why is that a weakness? It has WAL support, doesn't it?
2021-05-25 09:21:41	Evolver	Yhg1s: I just have a string that sometimes has such things
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2021-05-25 09:22:32	Evolver	Yhg1s: `html.unescape` works. Thanks.
2021-05-25 09:22:35	Yhg1s	Evolver: okay, and what other things does it have? other HTML entities?
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2021-05-25 09:22:59	Evolver	just the ampersand encoded junk
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2021-05-25 09:24:09	Falc	Evolver: I meant that, when compared to other SQL engines, SQLite tends to have a worse performance than the others when facing a highly concurrent load (again, as far as I'm aware)
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2021-05-25 09:24:11	very_sneaky	has anybody here used sphinx-multiversions, and if so, do you know of a way to run additional commands prior to the `sphinx-build` command being executed?
2021-05-25 09:24:39	very_sneaky	a quick look at the source tells me this probably isn't possible, but thought i'd check on the offchance i'm wrong
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2021-05-25 09:27:31	ELFrederich	does anyone know if PyCharm is using mypy under the hood?  I'm getting some type errors from PyCharm but not from mypy.
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2021-05-25 09:32:13	MrFantastik	dang this lose_precision thing is a little tough
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2021-05-25 09:34:27	MrFantastik	i have something that works for 12.1234567890
2021-05-25 09:34:36	MrFantastik	but not 123456789
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2021-05-25 09:35:30	MrFantastik	https://bpa.st/GPAA acresearch  something for that lose precision problem
2021-05-25 09:35:45	MrFantastik	doesn't work yet, but may be a starting point?
2021-05-25 09:35:50	acresearch	MrFantastik: let me check it out
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2021-05-25 09:37:43	MrFantastik	okay now i have one that works on 123456789 but not 12.34567890
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2021-05-25 09:39:45	MrFantastik	I wonder if this is on leetcode
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2021-05-25 09:40:54	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I don't think it's intrinsically dependent on mypy, but I'm sure it's capable of calling it
2021-05-25 09:41:47	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, I just thought PyCharm would rely on it somehow... why re-invent the wheel.  Maybe it's just using an older version.
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2021-05-25 09:42:23	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I can't comment on "some type errors," but if you share the error report you might get someone's interest
2021-05-25 09:42:26	MrFantastik	does vscode use mypy in pyls?
2021-05-25 09:43:01	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, the issue is... when I have a function decorated with @click.group() and another function decorated with @click.command() I can add the command to the group.  some_group.add_command(some_command).  This works fine w/ mypy and PyCharm until you move that command to a different file.
2021-05-25 09:43:26	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, then mypy is still fine with it, but not PyCharm
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2021-05-25 09:45:18	ELFrederich	Error from PyCharm is... Expected type 'Command', got '() -> Any' instead
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2021-05-25 09:45:43	acresearch	MrFantastik: https://bpa.st/BGSA   this is as far as i got
2021-05-25 09:47:08	MrFantastik	you need to lose precision for aribitary amounts of values?
2021-05-25 09:47:22	MrFantastik	6,8,10?
2021-05-25 09:47:57	acresearch	losing precision is fine
2021-05-25 09:48:12	acresearch	as long as the format ends up the same
2021-05-25 09:48:24	MrFantastik	> losing precision is fine
2021-05-25 09:48:27	MrFantastik	roger that
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2021-05-25 09:48:41	MrFantastik	the format has to be 6, 8 and 10 though?
2021-05-25 09:49:00	MrFantastik	or n?
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2021-05-25 09:49:05	MrFantastik	where n is an int
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2021-05-25 09:49:37	acresearch	yes the format must stick to these values
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2021-05-25 09:50:38	MrFantastik	I'm soo close to figuring it out lol
2021-05-25 09:51:16	acresearch	haha
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2021-05-25 09:53:18	MrFantastik	acresearch:  got it!
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2021-05-25 09:53:35	acresearch	:-)
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2021-05-25 09:54:33	MrFantastik	https://bpa.st/RYRA
2021-05-25 09:54:39	MrFantastik	this only works for 6
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2021-05-25 09:55:08	MrFantastik	but it should be pretty straightforward to add an arguement to this that takes other formats
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2021-05-25 09:55:40	MrFantastik	If it is NOT straightforward though, I'll be hanging out in here today
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2021-05-25 09:56:27	acresearch	MrFantastik: sorry mate, i don't think this will work,,, it is not working with me
2021-05-25 09:56:43	MrFantastik	could you give an example?
2021-05-25 09:56:55	acresearch	i sent you a paste did you see it?
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2021-05-25 09:57:16	acresearch	i will send it again 1 moment
2021-05-25 09:57:22	MrFantastik	i have it
2021-05-25 09:57:26	acresearch	ok
2021-05-25 09:57:34	MrFantastik	ah list index out of range
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2021-05-25 10:01:09	MrFantastik	acresearch:  okie i fixed that
2021-05-25 10:02:04	MrFantastik	https://bpa.st/OMWA
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2021-05-25 10:05:14	MrFantastik	f'{your_float:.6f}'[:7] how would I programatically set 6 here?
2021-05-25 10:05:15	MrFantastik	 
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2021-05-25 10:06:49	SnoopJ	`x = 6; f'{3.1415926:.{x}f}'` is valid, but I would probably do `fmt = '.6f'; f'{3.1415926:{fmt}}'` if I were going to use nesting
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2021-05-25 10:09:00	gcbirzan	Wouldn't 5 be what you want there? As you'll never have more than 5 digits after the decimal point
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2021-05-25 10:09:24	acresearch	MrFantastik: i am trying a different approach 1 second
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2021-05-25 10:10:09	MrFantastik	acresearch:  okie this works for the general case and defaults to 6 https://bpa.st/OHWQ
2021-05-25 10:10:31	MrFantastik	I'm curious to see what you come up with
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2021-05-25 10:11:00	acresearch	MrFantastik: ok it seems it is working   let me confirm then send you the code,
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2021-05-25 10:12:28	MrFantastik	gcbirzan: are you asking us?
2021-05-25 10:12:58	acresearch	MrFantastik: https://bpa.st/TH4Q
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2021-05-25 10:13:44	gcbirzan	MrFantastik: I'm saying, you need only 5 significant digits, as you'll have at least one digit and the dot
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2021-05-25 10:14:29	gcbirzan	though, this changes how rounding is done, I guess
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2021-05-25 10:14:41	gcbirzan	sorry, didn't read the original question
2021-05-25 10:15:04	MrFantastik	yea need the extra digit for rounding, no worries
2021-05-25 10:15:09	MrFantastik	acresearch:  https://i.imgur.com/vWfnJRs.png
2021-05-25 10:15:23	MrFantastik	I'm not seeing the extra digits
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2021-05-25 10:16:27	MrFantastik	unless I'm misunderstanding the desired format
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2021-05-25 10:19:56	acresearch	MrFantastik: i can't figure out the extra 000s  but at least it is working,,,,    i will have to read up more to figure out how to add the extra digits
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2021-05-25 10:21:26	MrFantastik	okie good luck!
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2021-05-25 10:24:18	MrFantastik	Has anyone done research into pareto effecient programming languages?
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2021-05-25 10:24:58	MrFantastik	a really easy one to do I would think be memory and cpu consumption
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2021-05-25 10:25:04	MrFantastik	for common tasks
2021-05-25 10:25:24	MrFantastik	but I'd like to see it also measured against language complexity
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2021-05-25 10:43:08	IoannisJVM	i have a class object with 4 attributes and i need to make a POST request and fill those attributes with dataa dynamically
2021-05-25 10:43:41	IoannisJVM	and i'm a bit conufsed with the request option
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2021-05-25 10:43:50	grym	IoannisJVM: MyClass(**response.json()), usually
2021-05-25 10:44:04	grym	or possibly .json, if it's a property (this is library dependent)
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2021-05-25 10:45:13	IoannisJVM	grym i tried this way https://bpa.st/ERLQ
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2021-05-25 10:46:48	grym	IoannisJVM: you're doing nothing with the object you create on line 3
2021-05-25 10:47:14	eyepeetee	just wrote this lol.........might not seem descriptive but it is in the context it exists in
2021-05-25 10:47:17	eyepeetee	..._info = [{ field: field_to_field[field] for field in field_to_field } for ...
2021-05-25 10:47:20	grym	IoannisJVM: why not `EMSAllocation(id=data['id'], ... `
2021-05-25 10:47:38	IoannisJVM	grym yeah,that's my question
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2021-05-25 10:47:42	IoannisJVM	hmm let me try it
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2021-05-25 10:50:15	IoannisJVM	TypeError: byte indices must be integers or slices, not str
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2021-05-25 10:51:19	bjs	IoannisJVM: you probably want to use data_json not just data
2021-05-25 10:51:22	bjs	when getting the values out
2021-05-25 10:52:04	IoannisJVM	bjs where do you mean? in the return part?
2021-05-25 10:52:29	bjs	IoannisJVM: no I mean, data_json["id"] rather than data["id"]
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2021-05-25 10:53:03	bjs	if data is just some bytes,  then you can't get the id out of it like that. You have to have the json module read it first.
2021-05-25 10:53:50	bjs	IoannisJVM: or `return EMSAllocation(**data_json)` if all the names match the keywords
2021-05-25 10:53:59	bjs	and have the right type
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2021-05-25 10:54:18	IoannisJVM	hmm ok
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2021-05-25 11:32:51	crippa	hi. I'm using jinja and it complains gettext is unidentified.. any help?
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2021-05-25 11:33:55	crippa	JINJA_ENVIRONMENT = { 'extensions': [...]}#'jinja2.ext.i18n'], }
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2021-05-25 11:34:35	mike18	hi - how can i read all files from a director using python pandas and read_parquet?
2021-05-25 11:34:51	crippa	sorry: JINJA_ENVIRONMENT = { 'extensions': 'jinja2.ext.i18n'] }
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2021-05-25 11:35:37	ChrisWarrick	crippa: are you sure jinja is reading whatever file this is defined in?
2021-05-25 11:35:54	crippa	not sure, no
2021-05-25 11:36:13	crippa	I'm using pelican and I'm specifying JINJA_ENVIRONMENT in its config file
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2021-05-25 11:36:32	crippa	but if I load that extension, it complains about gettext
2021-05-25 11:36:39	crippa	I'm at loss
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2021-05-25 11:37:45	ChrisWarrick	crippa: so, you aren’t using jinja, you’re really using pelican
2021-05-25 11:38:00	ChrisWarrick	crippa: there’s a pelican channel that might help you better
2021-05-25 11:38:04	crippa	thx
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2021-05-25 11:46:12	mike18	hi guys any idea how to improve the speed of this short snippet? https://ideone.com/wIORVz
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2021-05-25 12:12:41	arkygeek	hi folks. I’m trying to figure out why I seem to have a var type issue in this code: https://bpa.st/EMDQ
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2021-05-25 12:13:22	arkygeek	line 21, in encrypt   d.append(i + number)   TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'
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2021-05-25 12:14:14	bjs	arkygeek: `number` was a string, not a number at all!
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2021-05-25 12:15:15	arkygeek	bjs: I’m here from c++ lol
2021-05-25 12:15:19	bjs	arkygeek: the input() function always returns a string.  You can make a number from a string by saying `number = float(input(...))` (the float() function can take a string and give you back the number)
2021-05-25 12:15:40	arkygeek	bjs: ok, thx, let me give this a try now
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2021-05-25 12:15:54	arkygeek	bjs: I’m here from primarily c++ background ;-)
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2021-05-25 12:18:00	arkygeek	bjs: cool, turns out float doesn’t work for the next line, I had to use int
2021-05-25 12:18:07	arkygeek	bjs: thanks for the help :-)
2021-05-25 12:18:53	bjs	arkygeek: yes, there are a bunch of different number types in Python,  I didn't know which you wanted.  They each have a conversion function.
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2021-05-25 12:20:06	arkygeek	is it normal for people like me to be a bit taken aback at how python seems to take a willy nilly approach to var types? lol
2021-05-25 12:20:14	arkygeek	(from a c++ background)
2021-05-25 12:20:28	arkygeek	bjs: at any rate, thanks for that. I’m off now ;-)
2021-05-25 12:20:53	MacGyver	arkygeek: Yes, totally normal, and something you'll easily get over it.
2021-05-25 12:21:24	MacGyver	arkygeek: Also note that python nowadays has type annotations if you feel an insurmountable urge to type everything.
2021-05-25 12:21:29	arkygeek	MacGyver: lol - every language has quirks. I can see advantages too
2021-05-25 12:21:46	meejah	arkygeek: i came to Python from C++ to get away from the types ;)
2021-05-25 12:22:08	arkygeek	MacGyver: lol - I love it lolz
2021-05-25 12:22:16	arkygeek	meejah: hehe
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2021-05-25 12:23:27	ammar2	good thing they're completely optional
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2021-05-25 12:32:48	meejah	I prefer to use zope.interface for times when I want to demand an interface from my objects .. I do agree types can have their place (but yes I like the "optional" part vs. C++'s approach .. which interestingly now has "auto" so :shrug:)
2021-05-25 12:33:18	meejah	(or "abc" can be used if you don't like the "zope.interface" dependency)
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2021-05-25 12:56:37	voldial	I have this situation: https://stevereads.com/2015/09/25/python-sigpipe/ my understanding is that on SIGPIPE, it's correct to exit(0) ('cat' for example does this), but how is this normally done on py? Does everyone add signal(SIGPIPE,SIG_DFL)? Sometimes I want to know if a pipe broke, especially in dev code, having that signal handeler installed only when I use --verbose on my app seems hackish...
2021-05-25 12:57:08	arkygeek	meejah: great points - that’s really helpful - thank you!
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2021-05-25 12:57:35	kraa	i was wondering if anyone had any insights: I just upgrade to ubuntu 21.04 and wanted to install a package called indicator-stickynotes, the ppa does not have a release file so sudo apt install does not work after adding the ppa. So i ran pip install git+https://github.com/umangv/indicator-stickynotes it built and installed correctly, but when i browse to /usr/local/bin and run ./indicator-stickynotes.py i get the error "Namespace
2021-05-25 12:57:35	kraa	GtkSource not available for version 3.0", but when i run python3 -> import gi -> gi.require_version('Gtk, '3.0') there is no error, not sure what gives
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2021-05-25 12:58:08	voldial	normally, I would catch BrokenPipeError and exit, but this is tedious if there are many places where fd.write() is sending to stdout/stderr
2021-05-25 12:58:37	kraa	i tried following a bunch of stack overflow suggestions but nothing seems to work
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2021-05-25 13:10:57	kraa	nm solved it thanks kraa
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2021-05-25 13:15:33	aselman4	Hello all, im using the django rest framework api view but the point is everytime you call the api the framework instantiates a new instance of the view (class). i am trying to maintain a class level method map that will call  specific function in the view depending on the parameter passed in. the logic to call the correct method based on  the
2021-05-25 13:15:33	aselman4	parameters is possible by making all the handler methods static. can anyone think of a better way?
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2021-05-25 13:17:13	gcbirzan	It creates a new instance of the class, not a new class, every time, so having class attributes/class methods should work.
2021-05-25 13:17:53	gcbirzan	But, I'm not sure I really understand the question. Can you show some code?
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2021-05-25 13:19:42	aselman4	gcbirzan: you can but the problem is it wont persist. the next time a new instance is created the map wont exist so i have to save it as a class variable
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2021-05-25 13:41:25	acresearch	people, if i have 2 dicitionaries, i am trying to compaire them, i want to print out the difference between them, i,e what are they values that are in X but not in Y,   how can i accomplish this?
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2021-05-25 13:42:37	ChrisWarrick	acresearch: example input, example output?
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2021-05-25 13:43:03	SnoopJ	acresearch, https://bpaste.net/XNXQ
2021-05-25 13:43:46	acresearch	SnoopJ: ok let me try
2021-05-25 13:44:28	acresearch	SnoopJ: is there a way to adjust it so as to compair the values instead of the keys?
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2021-05-25 13:46:12	SnoopJ	same thing with .values() (assuming the values are hashable)
2021-05-25 13:46:24	acresearch	ChrisWarrick: SnoopJ https://bpa.st/62JQ
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2021-05-25 13:47:04	acresearch	SnoopJ: sorry i didn't understand
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2021-05-25 13:52:28	SnoopJ	acresearch, https://bpaste.net/2ODQ
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2021-05-25 13:53:42	AckSynAck	hello, is there a python-based, non-cloud, free and open note-taking program, for saving quick notes?
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2021-05-25 13:56:51	domhnall	AckSynAck: cherrytree... not sure if it's python-based though.
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2021-05-25 13:57:19	acresearch	SnoopJ: i am not sure why, but none of them are working,  no errors, but no example gives the correct answer
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2021-05-25 13:58:59	AckSynAck	domhnall, thank you, I remember cherrytree
2021-05-25 13:59:09	SnoopJ	acresearch, if you want assistance with that, you'll need to first clearly explain what the correct answer is
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2021-05-25 14:02:24	acresearch	SnoopJ: ok so ... there are 230 total values,,, in SpaceGroups you can see the keys and values but it is incomplete, there are keys and values that are missing,,, for example value number 2 is missing because i do not know its key...    i am trying to compile all the missing values (the values out of a total of 230 that are not present in the SpaceGroups dictionary)
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2021-05-25 14:02:51	SnoopJ	acresearch, sorry, that in no way makes it more clear
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2021-05-25 14:05:48	domhnall	AckSynAck: yeah, its pretty awesome. looking at the repo, its a c++ program.. so... somewhat the same I guess.
2021-05-25 14:06:12	acresearch	SnoopJ: ok let me try another way,,, look at the following example: https://bpa.st/UTZQ   you can see that there is a total of 10 values in "missing"  these are 10 values without a key       in SpaceGroups you can see that i found the corresponding key to some values      so the question is: what is left over?   answer: keys [2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]    these are the keys that still do not have values
2021-05-25 14:06:15	acresearch	  is my explanation better?
2021-05-25 14:06:31	SnoopJ	acresearch, those are not keys
2021-05-25 14:06:34	domhnall	22.0% python code
2021-05-25 14:06:54	acresearch	sorry i meant values [2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
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2021-05-25 14:07:23	AckSynAck	domhnall, interestingly, it is no more in debian repos
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2021-05-25 14:07:32	SnoopJ	acresearch, `missing` is a dictionary with exactly one key
2021-05-25 14:07:45	domhnall	AckSynAck: Debian 8 or 9 ?
2021-05-25 14:08:05	SnoopJ	acresearch, https://bpaste.net/UBQA
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2021-05-25 14:08:32	AckSynAck	domhnall, 10.4.
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2021-05-25 14:08:51	domhnall	oh... didn't know it was on 10 already... its been a while.
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2021-05-25 14:09:12	domhnall	well, AckSynAck... good luck. maybe it's in a ppa.
2021-05-25 14:09:26	LuxuryMode	If I use `with` to open a file and then I write to it, do I need to call `flush` or `close` or is that the whole point of `with` that this is handled automatically?
2021-05-25 14:09:44	AckSynAck	domhnall, thanks, afaik it is only available via flathub
2021-05-25 14:09:49	domhnall	ah
2021-05-25 14:09:58	SnoopJ	LuxuryMode, that's the whole point, yep
2021-05-25 14:10:00	nedbat	LuxuryMode: you don't need to call flush or close explicitly
2021-05-25 14:10:38	LuxuryMode	Thanks all
2021-05-25 14:10:40	SnoopJ	there *might* be cases where you'd want to flush() inside a context management block, but they are exceptional
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2021-05-25 14:15:25	LuxuryMode	Gotcha, thank you
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2021-05-25 14:15:43	sybariten	I'm trying to think of a way to make a small script that has a list and removes an item from the list by name - but also complains if that item doesn't exist in the list.
2021-05-25 14:16:02	sybariten	Could you recommend some way to do it without defining a function of my own?
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2021-05-25 14:16:27	sybariten	using the remove() method for instance
2021-05-25 14:16:28	LuxuryMode	Pretty simple, no? if thing not in my_list: complain else my_list.remove(thing)
2021-05-25 14:16:54	sybariten	ah okay! sounds like a sane solution.
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2021-05-25 14:19:53	SnoopJ	note: that will scan the list twice
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2021-05-25 14:26:00	sybariten	LuxuryMode: that worked like a charm, thanks! I sometimes tend to get a bit blocked when thinking how to construct simple code
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2021-05-25 14:28:00	LuxuryMode	sybariten: Nice. Happens to the best of us.
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2021-05-25 14:34:06	nubonix	how can i chart / plot in realtime? id prefer to use plotly. Im getting my input data from `while True: ws.recv()` [websocket] heres my attempt https://bpa.st/4DCQ
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2021-05-25 14:34:27	SnoopJ	nubonix, Bokeh is good
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2021-05-25 14:37:02	nubonix	SnoopJ: hows the tutorials/docs?
2021-05-25 14:38:34	SnoopJ	nubonix, I haven't used it extensively but as I recall they were useful. There's certainly a lot of 3rd-party material about it, you can probably find a talk or two in the SciPy Conference archives
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2021-05-25 14:39:15	ChrisWarrick	nubonix: I’d probably do real-time plotting with js in a browser, not with python
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2021-05-25 14:40:27	nubonix	ChrisWarrick: no...
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2021-05-25 15:03:43	Angs	when writing a CLI script, which one would be a better practice: break the project into multiple files and use them as modules, or collect everything into the script file (single file)?
2021-05-25 15:05:00	ChrisWarrick	Angs: How are you going to distribute this?
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2021-05-25 15:05:27	ChrisWarrick	Angs: A typical solution would be to throw it on pypi, write a setup.py with entry_points, and you can organize your code any way you want
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2021-05-25 15:07:45	Angs	<ChrisWarrick>, distribution is another subject that I was going to search, and you have just guided me how I should do it. Thanks a lot
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2021-05-25 15:09:56	sybariten	given a list called Last, "alpha beta gamma delta" this (somewhat convoluted?) construction does _not_ seem to swap two items using comma notation...  am i missing something?
2021-05-25 15:10:01	sybariten	Last[Last.index("beta")], Last[Last.index("gamma")] = Last[Last.index("gamma")], Last[Last.index("beta")]
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2021-05-25 15:10:28	squirrel	Angs: python can run zip files too, kind of
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2021-05-25 15:11:45	nedbat	sybariten: you said list, but you showed us a string
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2021-05-25 15:12:10	Angs	squirrel, do you mean that I can zip my project and then it can be executed from a shell?
2021-05-25 15:12:28	sybariten	nedbat: yeah... that was me writing sloppily. Its a real list
2021-05-25 15:12:49	sybariten	Last = ["alfa", "beta", "gamma", "delta"]
2021-05-25 15:13:25	zylo4747	Is there a way to turn a mysql.connector result obtained from cursor.fetchall() which looks like a list of dictionaries keyed by column name into a dictionary where the first column (the PK) is the dictionary key and the remaining columns are a dictionary?   So [{PK: 1, COL1: 1, COL2: 2}, {PK: 2, COL1: 2, COL2: 2}] becomes {1: {COL1: 1, COL2: 2},
2021-05-25 15:13:26	zylo4747	2: {COL1: 2, COL2: 2}}
2021-05-25 15:13:32	squirrel	Angs: yeah. well, if that's what you want https://stackoverflow.com/a/24152545
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2021-05-25 15:15:36	zylo4747	I kind of have a solution by doing this but it duplicates the PK.   {item[PK]: item for item in cursor.fetchall()}   which becomes {1: {PK: 1, COL1: 1, COL2: 1}, 2: {PK: 2, COL1: 2, COL2: 2}}
2021-05-25 15:15:56	Angs	squirrel, interesting! Thanks.
2021-05-25 15:16:01	nedbat	sybariten: it's because the assignment to [index("beta")] happens before the index("gamma") is calculated
2021-05-25 15:16:46	sybariten	nedbat: oh. I'm somehow fooling myself here?
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2021-05-25 15:20:10	ChrisWarrick	zylo4747: you could filter out the PK column when creating the dict
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2021-05-25 15:21:19	zylo4747	But how do I do that without losing the value for the outer key?
2021-05-25 15:21:54	ChrisWarrick	zylo4747: {item["PK"]: {k: v for k, v in item.items() if k != "PK"} for item in cursor.fetchall()}
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2021-05-25 15:22:21	zylo4747	let me give it a try
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2021-05-25 15:23:52	nedbat	sybariten: it's surprising, because it's changing a list and looking things up in the list in the same line
2021-05-25 15:24:14	zylo4747	ChrisWarrick that is awesome, thank you!
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2021-05-25 15:27:50	domhnall	prejudice or racism?
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2021-05-25 15:30:32	nedbat	domhnall: wrong channel?
2021-05-25 15:33:41	domhnall	nedbat: sorry about tht... little one hit the keyboard
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2021-05-25 15:39:40	ELFrederich	any idea how to get type hinting to work with contextlib.contextmanager?
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2021-05-25 15:41:40	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, that's a pretty open-ended question. Maybe you have some code that isn't adequately compatible with mypy (or whatever tool) that you'd like to share?
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2021-05-25 15:43:09	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, https://bpa.st/P25A
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2021-05-25 15:43:37	ELFrederich	mypy correctly complains about f.some_method('8'), but PyCharm doesn't
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2021-05-25 15:45:23	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, ... found how to make PyCharm happy.  def foo(n: int) -> ContextManager[MyClass]:
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2021-05-25 15:46:14	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, but then mypy complains
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2021-05-25 15:48:02	vimart	I came to idea to write a function generating random choice from a list.
2021-05-25 15:48:55	KirkMcDonald	random.choice() is already a function that exists.
2021-05-25 15:49:17	vimart	I sat down look at the screen and I stared at it for a minute and had not a clue even when to start.
2021-05-25 15:49:30	vimart	KirkMcDonald: sure there's :-)
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2021-05-25 15:50:28	vimart	but it could me not a wrong thing to learn and practice by writing something similar.
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2021-05-25 15:51:02	vimart	what's funny I've done a research for a few minutes and didn't come with any hints.
2021-05-25 15:51:20	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, mypy has the right of it here. I think you might want the annotation for contextmanager available in typeshed, if PyCharm knows how to use those: https://github.com/python/typeshed/blob/master/stdlib/contextlib.pyi#L33
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2021-05-25 15:52:15	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, ContextManager exists in the typing module that comes w/ Python.  So why wouldn't mypy respect that or know how to use it?
2021-05-25 15:52:50	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, contextlib.contextmanager() has no annotation. PyCharm's evaluation of the second thing is pretty egregiouly wrong, it just happens to "work"
2021-05-25 15:52:57	vimart	there's some things about generating random number but not choice or sample from a list etc
2021-05-25 15:53:14	KirkMcDonald	vimart: You can use an integer to index a list.
2021-05-25 15:53:25	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, I'm guessing that PyCharm is applying the annotation of the decorated function to the result of the decoration (but it *is* a guess)
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2021-05-25 15:54:24	SnoopJ	Well, maybe "egregiously wrong" is going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that "passing through" the annotation like that is going to be wrong far more often than it will be right?
2021-05-25 15:54:41	 *	SnoopJ isn't all that annotation-savvy
2021-05-25 15:55:14	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, so if mypy is right I should annotate my def with -> Iterator[MyClass]?  I've never used typeshed before.  How would I "use" it?
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2021-05-25 15:56:00	zylo4747	i have a slightly more complex problem from my previous question.  I'm pulling metadata out of the database from system views.  The results come in a list of dictionaries where the columns are the dictionary keys and each row is a list item.  The first two columns are the database and table name.  I want to construct a dictionary from the
2021-05-25 15:56:01	zylo4747	result that looks like {DB: {TABLE: {DETAIL_COL1: 1, DETAIL_COL2: 1}}} so I can reference is like my_dict['DB1']['TABLE1']['DETAIL_COL1'] .  what is the best way to do this?
2021-05-25 15:56:09	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, you should annotate the function with what it returns, yes. https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/type-hinting-in-product.html#typeshed is where the documentation for using typeshed with PyCharm lives
2021-05-25 15:56:43	SnoopJ	Looks like maybe they only use some of the stub files
2021-05-25 15:58:12	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, ah, okay... that seems like a clunky way to integrate the definitions, to "Copy some or all the stubs into a directory in your project".
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2021-05-25 15:59:00	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, I've never dealt with type definitions coming from a different project, I'd think installing typeshed as a dependency would work.
2021-05-25 15:59:13	ELFrederich	but I guess not, otherwise they'd simply tell you to do that.
2021-05-25 16:00:04	SnoopJ	such are the joys of extant code that doesn't have annotations
2021-05-25 16:00:28	vimart	KirkMcDonald: came also to that conclusion but..... that what I found seemed to overcomplicated I think.
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2021-05-25 16:00:59	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, it seems like they're in the midst of switching to typeshed from their own solution (which might be clunky?), so it seems like the web documentation is a little threadbare.
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2021-05-25 16:02:38	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, without PyCharm, what is the method for using a library that has definitions coming from another library.  For example, some library which refuses to use type hinting and then a 3rd party comes along and has it's own repo with .pyi files.
2021-05-25 16:03:15	SnoopJ	Sorry, I don't understand the question?
2021-05-25 16:03:20	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, as the developer of an application which uses this library I should use the library as a dependency, but I should copy the .pyi files from the other repo?
2021-05-25 16:03:27	ChrisWarrick	zylo4747: are you sure you don’t want an ORM instead?
2021-05-25 16:03:42	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, if you want to add annotations to a library that does not have annotations, that is the problem that type stubs solve.
2021-05-25 16:04:12	SnoopJ	or well, not really "add" but it's supplemental information that has to be kept separately in sync. Yes, it's clunky.
2021-05-25 16:04:14	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, okay, so I guess my question is what is the proper way to use stubs?  Download and copy them from the stub project?
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2021-05-25 16:04:33	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, did you read the link?
2021-05-25 16:04:55	zylo4747	ChrisWarrick I'm just trying to write an ad-hoc administrative script to clean up some data
2021-05-25 16:04:58	ELFrederich	SnoopJ, yes... the PyCharm one.  I'm asking what's the proper way to use stubs in general (without PyCharm)
2021-05-25 16:05:42	ChrisWarrick	zylo4747: an ORM can still be helpful (and I’m not sure if loading all data from mysql into memory is a good idea)
2021-05-25 16:06:53	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, the only one-size-fits-all answer is "whatever the tool consuming them thinks is appropriate." You might also be interested in PEP 561 which talks about distribution options https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0561/#stub-only-packages
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2021-05-25 16:07:13	zylo4747	it's at most a few thousand rows so i am not too concerned about the memory, but I am open to changing up how I'm going about this.  I'm basically using the metadata from the system views to generate scripts to do the cleanup but I need to it by table and in some cases by column
2021-05-25 16:08:15	zylo4747	so a few of the results i need to search by db and table and some i need to search by db, table, column.  I was going to write the fixes all in SQL but I'm suffering from string concatenation limitations so I was going to pull it back into Python then concatenate what I need into the fix scripts
2021-05-25 16:08:31	acresearch	people is it possible to right a NOT statement here ---> if  10000 < len(exp) < 15000 :   if NOT between these two values?
2021-05-25 16:08:43	zylo4747	If you have recommendations on ORMs to look at, i'm open
2021-05-25 16:08:51	ChrisWarrick	zylo4747: sqlalchemy
2021-05-25 16:09:12	zylo4747	gotcha, ok, i'll take a look
2021-05-25 16:09:27	ChrisWarrick	acresearch: did you try `if not (a<b<c)`?
2021-05-25 16:09:28	SnoopJ	acresearch, `if not (10000 < len(exp) < 15000):` ?
2021-05-25 16:10:39	acresearch	nice i didn't know we can have () in an if statement
2021-05-25 16:10:43	acresearch	thanks
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2021-05-25 16:11:27	PJBoy	they're normal arithmetic parentheses
2021-05-25 16:12:26	PJBoy	and in fact they're unnecessary
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2021-05-25 16:13:04	nedbat	I would definitely keep the parens
2021-05-25 16:13:33	ChrisWarrick	yeah, the parens make it more readable and don’t require me to trust python to do the right thing in this case
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2021-05-25 16:13:46	PJBoy	they make it less readable, but sure
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2021-05-25 16:17:18	SnoopJ	parens +1
2021-05-25 16:17:58	PJBoy	*I think they make it less readable, but sure
2021-05-25 16:18:09	PJBoy	didn't mean to express my opinion as a fact there
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2021-05-25 16:20:09	nedbat	PJBoy: it's ok, "readable" is by definition subjective (even if you are wrong :) :)  )
2021-05-25 16:20:14	SnoopJ	`predicate = ...; if not predicate:` ? 😇
2021-05-25 16:20:39	PJBoy	:D
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2021-05-25 16:25:26	ChrisWarrick	or we could just do away with the `not` and write it as `if len(exp) <= 10000 or len(exp) >= 15000:
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2021-05-25 16:26:29	SnoopJ	or `if len(exp) not in range(10_000, 15_000):`
2021-05-25 16:26:39	SnoopJ	I guess that's not really "doing away" with the not, though
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2021-05-25 16:34:28	ELFrederich	without using Jinja, what's a simple way to do VERY SIMPLE templating, like this... https://bpa.st/5UUQ ... I feel dirty using the % operator.  Isn't there a new way in newer Python versions?
2021-05-25 16:34:41	nedbat	honestly, I might write it as:  good_length = 10000 < len(exp) < 15000;  if not good_length:
2021-05-25 16:35:06	SnoopJ	ELFrederich, there's string.Template for simple stuff
2021-05-25 16:35:10	nedbat	ELFrederich: is that JSON?
2021-05-25 16:35:10	meejah	ELFrederich: "hello, {name}".format(name="meejah")
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2021-05-25 16:35:32	SnoopJ	or yea, str.format()
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2021-05-25 16:35:38	nedbat	or json.dumps
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2021-05-25 16:35:42	ELFrederich	nedbat, yeah it's JSON.  But I'd prefer it not to go through python->json conversions
2021-05-25 16:35:49	nedbat	ELFrederich: oh, why is that?
2021-05-25 16:35:58	meejah	ELFrederich: and you can just use f"hello, {name}" all by itself if "name" is in scope
2021-05-25 16:36:10	nedbat	ELFrederich: I hope the account_id or user_id don't have quotes in them....
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2021-05-25 16:36:55	ELFrederich	nedbat, because Terraform is doing that somewhere else and I want it to match exactly, otherwise Terrform thinks there's a difference
2021-05-25 16:37:11	nedbat	ELFrederich: ick :)
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2021-05-25 16:37:57	meejah	wait, wat? you can't depend on json order etc anyway I thought?
2021-05-25 16:38:22	ELFrederich	meejah, I tried the .format but it complains about... KeyError: '\n  "Version"'
2021-05-25 16:38:39	ELFrederich	nedbat, I know.  Terraform needs to do json diffs, not string diffs
2021-05-25 16:39:20	meejah	ELFrederich: { and } are special to .format() so you probably have to quote them somehow :/
2021-05-25 16:39:34	ELFrederich	yeah, I just now realized what the error was telling me
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2021-05-25 16:40:44	SnoopJ	you quote them by repeating them: "{{".format() is "{
2021-05-25 16:40:53	SnoopJ	err, with the terminal " of course
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2021-05-25 16:41:38	ELFrederich	so my options for dead simple are the % operator with %(ACCOUNT_ID) or using .format with {ACCOUNT_ID} and escaping all other { and }, or I guess just str.replace()  ;-)
2021-05-25 16:42:46	meejah	it's madness that Terraform cares about the exact shape of the json (if it's semantically the same)
2021-05-25 16:44:30	Yhg1s	ELFrederich: %(ACCOUNT_ID) isn't enough. You need %(ACCOUNT_ID)s (and the 's' is so easy to forget.)
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2021-05-25 16:48:13	SnoopJ	meejah, wonder if it's related to the cases where JSON admits ambiguities
2021-05-25 16:51:08	ChrisWarrick	json admits ambiguities?
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2021-05-25 16:52:41	SnoopJ	ChrisWarrick, thinking mostly of repeated keys. `{"foo": 42, "foo": -1}` allows for a lot of implementation-defined behavior (the spec calls them "JSON processors")
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2021-05-25 16:54:04	SnoopJ	guess it's not really ambiguous in the document itself, except that the spec explicitly assigns no significance to order in that case
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2021-05-25 16:56:16	sybariten	Hello, anyone here running Visual Studio Code for python by any chance? We are submitting school work through a system that does.... hmmm linting?  I mean, it checks for long lines, for extra lines, ugly things like that (apart from actual errors)
2021-05-25 16:56:35	SnoopJ	"the spec" == ECMA-404; RFC 7159 clarifies things a little bit, but mostly by encouraging people to avoid the trap door altogether
2021-05-25 16:56:50	SnoopJ	sybariten, a lot of people use VS Code for Python, yep. What's up?
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2021-05-25 16:57:26	sybariten	it would be nice to be able to preview the same thing in VS Code, without having to go through this remote system to discover my ugly shortcomings
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2021-05-25 16:58:58	SnoopJ	sybariten, this checking process is called "linting" and VS Code's Python extension supports a variety of tools that perform it: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/linting
2021-05-25 16:59:00	sybariten	brb in fifteen minutes
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2021-05-25 16:59:09	sybariten	SnoopJ: will check in 15
2021-05-25 16:59:16	SnoopJ	the link isn't going anywhere :)
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2021-05-25 17:04:54	 *	nedbat adds many messages to make the link go somewhere.
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2021-05-25 17:07:48	greyblue9	SnoopJ: the order would be preserved in python, correct? for `json.loads` / `json.dumps`
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2021-05-25 17:09:04	SnoopJ	greyblue9, the default JSONDecoder keeps the last definition, but you can define pretty arbitrary behavior: https://bpaste.net/U62Q
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2021-05-25 17:11:02	 *	SnoopJ just realized his .py are being pasted without formatting, oops
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2021-05-25 17:15:15	ELFrederich	What was that new way that Python introduced to ignore specific exceptions?
2021-05-25 17:15:32	Peng	Something with with
2021-05-25 17:15:48	Peng	I don't remember what!!
2021-05-25 17:15:53	ELFrederich	Peng, right, it was a context manager
2021-05-25 17:16:04	Peng	contextlib.suppress
2021-05-25 17:16:19	CrtxReavr	Maybe IRC3 should support markdown.  >=]
2021-05-25 17:16:26	Peng	rst!
2021-05-25 17:17:40	ELFrederich	darn, just realized it's not a named exception I can suppress, it's created by a factory at runtime
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2021-05-25 17:19:00	SnoopJ	Probably some clients do render Markdown embedded in IRC messages
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2021-05-25 17:26:38	nedbat	ELFrederich: does the exception have a known base class?
2021-05-25 17:26:53	ELFrederich	nedbat, yes
2021-05-25 17:27:02	nedbat	ELFrederich: then suppress that
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2021-05-25 17:27:38	ELFrederich	nedbat, it's only the specific one I want to suppress.  I'll have to catch the known base class and inspect exc.response["Error"]["Code"]
2021-05-25 17:27:58	nedbat	ELFrederich: ick :)
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2021-05-25 17:56:03	c4017w	Can someone take a look at this simple code? https://bpa.st/2QPQ  For the life of me I can't figure out why both elements in 'actuals' end up identical
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2021-05-25 17:57:12	ChrisWarrick	c4017w: what is the output you get from this code?
2021-05-25 17:57:33	c4017w	it prints 'func 2' two times and both calls return 2
2021-05-25 17:58:04	ChrisWarrick	c4017w: yeah, that’s one of the gotchas of lambdas
2021-05-25 17:58:26	ChrisWarrick	c4017w: lambda io=io, name=name: func_executor(io, name)
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2021-05-25 17:58:47	SnoopJ	or using partial: `functools.partial(func_executor, io=io, name=io)`
2021-05-25 17:58:53	c4017w	They're only actually created at the end of the list comprehension?
2021-05-25 17:58:58	ChrisWarrick	yeah, or partial
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2021-05-25 17:59:29	c4017w	wow, I wondoer how much of my past code is broken in the same way...
2021-05-25 17:59:47	ChrisWarrick	c4017w: all lambdas end up referring to one "io" and one "name", which happen to be the last loop execution
2021-05-25 17:59:49	SnoopJ	c4017w, the spelling you've used here isn't "capturing" the names, they're resolved against the comprehension's lambda I think
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2021-05-25 18:00:39	c4017w	well that's good to know. thanks
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2021-05-25 18:01:55	SnoopJ	the disassembly of those lambdas: https://bpaste.net/MO6Q (where the LOAD_DEREF instructions are "go find the value tied to this name")
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2021-05-25 18:09:21	skylite	I have a folder called x and a main.py in my root directory, and inside x I have a.py with my_a=3 how do I import that my_a from main.py?
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2021-05-25 18:10:21	meejah	skylite: a directory becomes "a module" when it has an __init__.py file, to start
2021-05-25 18:10:57	skylite	meejah: I created the __init__.py in my folder x but it still wont work. Im trying from x import my_a
2021-05-25 18:10:59	nacelle	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67631/how-to-import-a-module-given-the-full-path ?
2021-05-25 18:11:45	skylite	maybe I'm asking the wrong question. I plan to have multiple files in x and I'd like to import them all from my main.py
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2021-05-25 18:12:36	skylite	sorry. In main.py I'd like to import multiple variables located in multiple files inside x
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2021-05-25 18:12:43	meejah	skylite: the name will be x.a.my_a
2021-05-25 18:13:12	skylite	so then I must import them all with multiple import statements?
2021-05-25 18:13:30	meejah	you could "from x import a" and then access like "a.my_a"
2021-05-25 18:13:50	meejah	why are you importing variables, though?
2021-05-25 18:14:08	skylite	I'm not it's just the example
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2021-05-25 18:14:41	skylite	I'd like to import multiple things (in separate files inside x) with one import statement if possible
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2021-05-25 18:16:01	meejah	"from x.a import (foo, bar, baz)"
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2021-05-25 18:17:11	skylite	meejah: but that's still all from file a.py what if x has a b.py as well
2021-05-25 18:17:27	skylite	then it must be a separate import<
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2021-05-25 18:17:30	skylite	?
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2021-05-25 18:19:31	meejah	skylite: yes
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2021-05-25 18:23:00	skylite	meejah:  if I add this to my __init__.py file inside x:   from .a import my_a then it works from my main.py
2021-05-25 18:23:08	skylite	is that bad?
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2021-05-25 18:23:37	skylite	then I can add separate files, and when they are added to the __init__ file I can import them in one line from main.py
2021-05-25 18:23:43	Guddu	Can i ask a python urwid question here?
2021-05-25 18:24:23	Guddu	I am having issues with dynamically adding radio buttons to the GridFlow. I have created a simple minimum program to explain my error. The code is at https://pastebin.com/naK29hhR
2021-05-25 18:24:23	Guddu	Anything can be entered on the first two input prompts to continue with the program flow. As we can see that on line 114 I am adding additional radio buttons to the group but they don't show up when we run the program and pass through the first two screens. Only the very first radio button with the text Hi shows up. Please guide.
2021-05-25 18:24:25	infobob	https://bpaste.net/HJEA (repasted for Guddu)
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2021-05-25 18:44:20	meejah	skylite: re-organizing imports like that can be okay .. depends a bit what you're trying to accomplish exactly
2021-05-25 18:45:30	skylite	meejah:I'm just trying to make the code a bit nicer by mereging these imports. I am expecting to have multiple files inside that x folder
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2021-05-25 18:52:06	meejah	skylite: yeah, that can be useful sometimes .. (those "files in x" are still called "modules" in python, btw)
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2021-05-25 18:55:38	skylite	thx
2021-05-25 18:56:05	dodobrain_	i need some help from someone who uses vscode with py projects
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2021-05-25 19:01:38	meejah	dodobrain_: best to just ask the real question
2021-05-25 19:02:34	dodobrain_	sure, i was wanting someone to show they are interested before asking as this is related but offtopic
2021-05-25 19:03:22	dodobrain_	anyway, i cannot discover tests on this project that uses pytest. all tests are under ${workspaceFolder}/tests but the tests need to be launched from the root dir
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2021-05-25 19:04:10	dodobrain_	so from a terminal i would just run `pytest tests` and in pycharm this is pretty much my setup: tests module = tests, working dir = projectdir
2021-05-25 19:04:22	dodobrain_	i cant get tests to discover or run on vscode for the same project
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2021-05-25 19:09:27	ningu	is virtualenvwrapper still a common/popular way that people manage virtualenv's or is there something else?
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2021-05-25 19:11:34	ChrisWarrick	ningu: I replaced virtualenvwrapper with a one-line shell function
2021-05-25 19:11:48	ningu	what function?
2021-05-25 19:12:13	ChrisWarrick	function workon { source "$WORKON_HOME/$1/bin/activate" }
2021-05-25 19:12:45	ningu	that could work, I suppose :)
2021-05-25 19:13:04	ChrisWarrick	it does, and it makes your shell start faster ;)
2021-05-25 19:13:07	ningu	stepping back actually, is virtualenv still the main / most recommended way to manage environments in general?
2021-05-25 19:13:24	ningu	I know there have been attempts to replace it but other things like venv or whatever don't seem to have caught on
2021-05-25 19:13:54	ningu	hmm there is pipenv
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2021-05-25 19:19:15	ningu	ah I see, pipenv is sort of like npm
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2021-05-25 19:20:40	meejah	ningu: virtualenv is still a good thing, yes ("venv" is the built-in virtualenv-like thing that comes with py3)
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2021-05-25 19:30:14	sybariten	SnoopJ: the link did go somewhere though?
2021-05-25 19:30:14	--	cdown_ is now known as cdown
2021-05-25 19:30:38	sybariten	(my chores took a bit more than 15 minutes)
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2021-05-25 19:42:05	ELFrederich	I'm combing through the requests code wondering where the heck the "ok" attribute on a Response gets set
2021-05-25 19:42:17	ELFrederich	my grep-fu is not strong today
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2021-05-25 19:44:09	ELFrederich	ah, it's a property.
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2021-05-25 19:59:46	SnoopJ	sybariten, https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/linting
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2021-05-25 20:00:06	sybariten	SnoopJ: yeah, its the same, thanks
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2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Topic for #python is "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops │ #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu"
2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Topic set by supakeen (~user@python/site-packages/supakeen) on Thu, 20 May 2021 06:34:42
2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Channel #python: 1364 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1364 normals)
2021-05-25 20:00:57	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-05-25 20:49:45	rhs	hello
2021-05-25 20:49:48	rhs	https://bpa.st/3AQA
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2021-05-25 20:50:11	rhs	can someone explain me why i have to declare x1... global
2021-05-25 20:50:26	rhs	but not can1 in the first function
2021-05-25 20:52:26	jnsnow	Not ... entirely sure, but I suspect that you wouldn't if the x1, ... assignments occurred at the top of the file, prior to the definition of drawline()
2021-05-25 20:52:58	sartan	Yikes, don't use globals =(
2021-05-25 20:53:11	jnsnow	y2/y1 would continue to need to be a global in this example though b.c. you assign to them
2021-05-25 20:53:59	nacelle	they're derived and can be returned though, no need to globalize that
2021-05-25 20:54:25	jnsnow	Just giving a direct answer before I move on to evangelizing :)
2021-05-25 20:54:37	rhs	hmm
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2021-05-25 20:55:42	jnsnow	(The evangelizing: Ideally, you'd pass the state the function needs directly to the function, and then you'd return a 2-tuple (y1,y2) instead of directly modifying them.)
2021-05-25 20:56:14	rhs	there's a python gospel ?
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2021-05-25 20:57:38	nacelle	rhs: "import this" in the python repl
2021-05-25 20:58:03	nacelle	( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_of_Python )
2021-05-25 20:58:15	jnsnow	there it is, the holy book!
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2021-05-25 21:03:53	sartan	rhs, this is a little cleaner.
2021-05-25 21:03:56	sartan	https://bpa.st/BWZA
2021-05-25 21:04:42	sartan	There's a few other ways of embedding all of that logic in a single class, but you can see here how we can avoid globals, and avoid passing too many function arguments around by using class variables
2021-05-25 21:04:48	sartan	class instance variables*
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2021-05-25 21:05:18	rhs	thanks !
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2021-05-25 21:07:19	rhs	but its seems a bit obsfucated for me at the moment
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2021-05-25 21:13:16	sartan	I installed tk, I wanted to see what it did, I was right :) It draws prisms. https://bpa.st/2MFA
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2021-05-25 22:57:37	pyeverything	hi is there a better way to write this file search? also not sure why it is not working as expected (is "in" wrong" for partial name search?) https://bpa.st/KSPQ
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2021-05-25 23:02:46	sartan	you'll have an issue matching 'filename.jpg.json'
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2021-05-25 23:05:11	ByteMe	 
2021-05-25 23:05:14	sartan	your suffixes are also not matching, i'm assuming those are test IDs 00009750. the other is 330
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2021-05-25 23:05:41	pyeverything	sartan: could you please explain what you mean? images are in .jpg and keypoints in .json
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2021-05-25 23:06:44	pyeverything	I just realized I forgot to only take the basename
2021-05-25 23:06:51	sartan	in your existing code, you have two bugs: Your data set has three issues:  1) when you for fn in glob: you get filename.jpg.  Then, you check if filename.jpg.json is in your keypoints folder.  issue 2) you're not accounting for _keypoints in the test filename. issue 3) your two example filenames are 9750 and 330.jpg
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2021-05-25 23:07:25	sartan	consider something like [fn for fn in ride_bike_tests if fn.replace('.jpg', '_keypoints.json') in keypoints]
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2021-05-25 23:47:55	amosbird	Hello! What's the current cleanest way to get a record from MySQL in python?
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2021-05-25 23:54:54	pyeverything	thanks sartan
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2021-05-26 00:09:39	amosbird	heh, how can I make python expression work in a string format {} ?
2021-05-26 00:09:41	amosbird	http://oracle.wentropy.com/15578705b77faa8d
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2021-05-26 00:10:54	Wulf	amosbird: f"{foo + bar + 17}"
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2021-05-26 00:22:02	jenntech2018	is this not allowed? https://dpaste.org/GcXj
2021-05-26 00:22:20	Wulf	jenntech2018: what?
2021-05-26 00:22:34	jenntech2018	as far as line 23 goes.., and if not, how would someone render 2 model instances to the same template in urls.py?
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2021-05-26 00:23:51	jenntech2018	sorry if this is a dumb question.. but im confused
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2021-05-26 00:27:15	stealth_	jenntech2018, `imageform` is not defined `if request.method == "POST":` is not true
2021-05-26 00:27:29	Wulf	so am I. I assume you're not asking about python syntax but about a library issue?
2021-05-26 00:27:50	jenntech2018	django actually.. but i couldnt find a django channel
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2021-05-26 00:27:59	stealth_	jenntech2018, why do you have `form =` on line:21 and 22? maybe you meant to have second one for `imageform`
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2021-05-26 00:28:21	jenntech2018	oh.. ya sorry..
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2021-05-26 00:28:47	Wulf	jenntech2018: #django @ libera
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2021-05-26 00:29:59	jenntech2018	it says i cant join that channel.. invite required..?
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2021-05-26 00:30:21	stealth_	jenntech2018, i would recommend using a lister with your text editor, so such issues will be highlighted
2021-05-26 00:30:30	Wulf	jenntech2018: works for me. Did you register an account?
2021-05-26 00:30:37	jenntech2018	ya..
2021-05-26 00:30:40	stealth_	jenntech2018, * using linter
2021-05-26 00:30:51	KirkMcDonald	jenntech2018: The #ubuntu IRC channel is not on Freenode.
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2021-05-26 00:31:54	jenntech2018	i can usually join every other channel no problem.. can one of you invite me to that django channel?
2021-05-26 00:32:08	jenntech2018	not sure how that works lol
2021-05-26 00:32:10	totalsecond	it probably doesn't exist anymore
2021-05-26 00:32:13	totalsecond	sorry
2021-05-26 00:32:14	jenntech2018	oh
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2021-05-26 00:32:48	Wulf	jenntech2018: it moved to libera. And you need to be registered to join it.
2021-05-26 00:32:55	jenntech2018	ok.. ill play around with it some more.. thanks guys :)
2021-05-26 00:33:08	totalsecond	everyone is leaving freenode. time to abandon ship.
2021-05-26 00:33:34	jenntech2018	wheres e1 going?
2021-05-26 00:33:43	Wulf	jenntech2018: libera or elsewhere
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2021-05-26 00:34:09	jenntech2018	hmm never heard of that one.. ok gtk
2021-05-26 00:34:21	KirkMcDonald	It is quite new.
2021-05-26 00:34:45	jenntech2018	thats a bummer i was just starting to like freenode lol
2021-05-26 00:34:49	totalsecond	Yep. Brand spankin' new.
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2021-05-26 00:35:08	totalsecond	It's ok! The entire community will be moved over soon enough!
2021-05-26 00:35:37	jenntech2018	cool cool. see ya'll there then lol
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2021-05-26 00:40:48	Tashtari	Boy, all you need to know about the new so-called leadership you can get by reading https://freenode.net right now
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2021-05-26 00:41:16	NeilG	How do I close over a value when defining a function without using parameters with default values?
2021-05-26 00:41:28	KirkMcDonald	NeilG: Add another closure.
2021-05-26 00:41:39	BrenBarn	There's also a Python channel on Matrix
2021-05-26 00:41:41	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, oh right....
2021-05-26 00:41:58	NeilG	and that closure takes the value as a parameter, right?
2021-05-26 00:42:12	KirkMcDonald	NeilG: Yes.
2021-05-26 00:42:27	NeilG	KirkMcDonald, perfect, thanks for understanding and solving my question so fast lol!
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2021-05-26 00:43:37	dyl	Tashtari: I assume you mean the address from our President on the silent majority, cancel culture, and using FOSS projects to pursue a political cause and hurt users? https://freenode.net/news/for-foss
2021-05-26 00:43:54	dyl	Oh it's on the front page too. Lol.
2021-05-26 00:43:59	Tashtari	Yus, that.
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2021-05-26 00:50:52	Tashtari	I like, too, how the recent announcement mentions "choosing" freenode
2021-05-26 00:51:01	Tashtari	Not much of a choice if you're not allowed to move your channel to another network
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2021-05-26 01:11:32	Guddu	Anything can be entered on the first two input prompts to continue with the program flow. As we can see that on line 114 I am adding additional radio buttons to the group but they don't show up when we run the program and pass through the first two screens. Only the very first radio button with the text Hi shows up. Please guide.
2021-05-26 01:11:45	Guddu	I am having issues with dynamically adding radio buttons to the GridFlow. I have created a simple minimum program to explain my error. The code is at https://pastebin.com/naK29hhR
2021-05-26 01:11:45	infobob	https://bpaste.net/HJEA (repasted for Guddu)
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2021-05-26 01:54:45	nuclear0xygen	hi
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2021-05-26 01:57:00	Thermoriax	I'm going to need a lot more popcorn for all of this...
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2021-05-26 02:07:04	rahulch	Hi, when I do str(django.utils.timezone.now()) what is the right way to interpret the generated string? Just wondering what is the format (HH:mm:ss:.... or whatever) followed
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2021-05-26 02:09:46	__that__	Morning everybody
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2021-05-26 02:13:01	__that__	I am trying to grab the wheel for the cryptography library as ours is outdated. We have an internal Python repo. However the wheels here https://pypi.org/project/cryptography/3.4.7/#files are not valid to install on my Windows 10. There is only available the zipped version in such case. I guess that pipenv would work out that it is a zip file in
2021-05-26 02:13:01	__that__	this case, wouldn't it?
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2021-05-26 02:13:47	__that__	by the way what abi3 means and why I cannot install it on my Cpython Python 3.6 on Windows?
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2021-05-26 02:14:50	webknjaz	@__that__: you probably need a newer pip
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2021-05-26 02:15:34	webknjaz	Old pip versions don't understand abi3
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2021-05-26 02:16:14	__that__	webknjaz, what is an abi3 format and how differ from the original one?
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2021-05-26 02:16:26	webknjaz	It's just a tag
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2021-05-26 02:17:38	Evolver	Will CPython be rewritten in Rust?
2021-05-26 02:17:44	webknjaz	Normally, you need to build wheels for a huge matrix, for each combo of the OS x arch x Python version
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2021-05-26 02:18:08	ammar2	Evolver: no, then it wouldn't be C-Python :)
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2021-05-26 02:18:24	__that__	I see. Well I don't think we can now upgrade our pipenv so I wonder if by grabbing the zipped file would suffice for now. Then we definitely need to do something about it
2021-05-26 02:18:24	ammar2	there is a RustPython project that aims to rewrite the interpreter in Rust
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2021-05-26 02:19:09	webknjaz	But with ABI3, you can say that you use C-API that appeared in version cp36, for example, and it'll be installable on subsequent versions too
2021-05-26 02:19:16	Evolver	ammar2: Yeap I acknowledge that there exist several alternative interpreters, but I was curious if the official one was making a move.
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2021-05-26 02:20:41	webknjaz	@__that__: also the recent versions of cryptography use manylinux2014 tags and if you are on a really old env, you may need manylinux1
2021-05-26 02:21:01	evil_gordita	.whl files ARE zipped files so you can just call them wheels, fwiw
2021-05-26 02:21:26	webknjaz	Oh, you mentioned windows. So this doesn't apply
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2021-05-26 02:21:58	webknjaz	@evil_gordita: they probably mean tarballs..
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2021-05-26 02:22:33	evil_gordita	Maybe, but I didn't get that impression from some of thier earlier messages.
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2021-05-26 02:22:36	 *	evil_gordita shrugs.
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2021-05-26 02:23:53	evil_gordita	The tarballs don't have the abi3 tag for example.
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2021-05-26 02:25:01	webknjaz	@__that__: note that the tags pop understands are vendored with it so you need to keep it up-to-date usually. Also, it has flags `--prefer-binary` and `--only-binary` that you may use to make pip go for older versions where its resolver can select wheels
2021-05-26 02:25:18	webknjaz	@evil_gordita: that's true
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2021-05-26 02:26:45	evil_gordita	What about manually downloading the wheel and passing the path to pip on the command line? Is any validation of the tags in that scenerio?
2021-05-26 02:26:50	__that__	webknjaz, yeah but we are keeping the Python repo for very amateurish people where you have to chew everything
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2021-05-26 02:27:07	webknjaz	@__that__: if you opt-in for the tarball (aka sdist), you'll need the build toolchain to be present on the machine too — Python headers, Rust compiler etc
2021-05-26 02:27:08	__that__	evil_gordita that is exactly what I did and failed
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2021-05-26 02:28:35	__that__	webknjaz, yeah all laptops are prepared with Anaconda so those users will be able to install them. My concern was about pipenv being able to recognise that there is only a tarball version and picking it up
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2021-05-26 02:29:52	webknjaz	@__that__: if you 100% sure that the Python version is ABI-compatible (meaning arch and OS are always the same), pointing at the wheel may work. I don't remember off the top of my head
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2021-05-26 02:32:01	webknjaz	@__that__: I'm not familiar with pipenv that well so you may have to test 🤷‍♂️ but if there's conda, shouldn't people use it? Also, if you provison the machines, can't you pre-install this too?
2021-05-26 02:32:10	__that__	webknjaz, we are using Python 3.6 - yeah, again we ought to keep it for backward compatibility -, Windows 10 and amd_64. I tried to download the wheel and install it directly but it did fail with this python package can't be install
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2021-05-26 02:33:15	__that__	problem is that we ought to update an old version of that library so I was just about providing a new wheel for everyone to do pipenv update
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2021-05-26 02:35:13	evil_gordita	There might be some flags you can pass to pip that'll force it to install whatever you give it. My expertise here is non-existant unfortunately so that's the extent of my helpfulness.
2021-05-26 02:35:27	nuclear0xygen	 /ignore -channels #pytho * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
2021-05-26 02:35:31	nuclear0xygen	 /ignore -channels #python * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
2021-05-26 02:35:47	__that__	I will give it a go with the tarball and then I am definitely looking at updating pipeenv
2021-05-26 02:35:47	nuclear0xygen	wait
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2021-05-26 02:36:19	Samian	anyone know why numpy.argwhere is called numpy.argwhere
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2021-05-26 02:36:52	Samian	I read argwhere as "arg" (short for argument) "where" as in in the cases it is true
2021-05-26 02:37:25	Samian	so it reads to me as where the arguments are true, do whatever you want to be done
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2021-05-26 02:37:31	Samian	but that makes no sense
2021-05-26 02:37:38	Samian	arguments are variables passed to a function
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2021-05-26 02:52:51	ammar2	Samian: I think argwhere, argsort, argmax and all the others mean "return something that you can use to index into the array"
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2021-05-26 02:53:51	Samian	isn't arg normally short for argumnet?
2021-05-26 02:53:55	Samian	*argument
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2021-05-26 02:54:17	__that__	pipenv is breakiing all over when trying to install tarballs
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2021-05-26 02:54:26	ammar2	sure, and the argument there probably means: "You can use this as an argument for indexing"
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2021-05-26 03:11:11	BrenBarn	but that's an index, not an argument
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2021-05-26 03:19:27	__that__	I am getting this error ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'setuptools_rust' when trying to run pip setup.py however I do have the setuptools installed
2021-05-26 03:19:48	__that__	pip list, lists setuptools
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2021-05-26 03:21:41	__that__	just realised I need to update too pip
2021-05-26 03:22:15	cluelessperson	__that__, check the versions of what you're running and make sure you're running the same python with pip you're running the script with.
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2021-05-26 03:24:40	__that__	cluelessperson, Yeah both the pip setup.py and the package I want to install requires python 3.6 at least and that is the one I am running it with
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2021-05-26 03:32:31	cluelessperson	__that__, setuptools_rust is not the same as setuptools
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2021-05-26 03:32:57	catbeard	lol an ok writeup on this, but the links are LOL - https://sysadmin.name/freenode-irc-hostile-takeover/
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2021-05-26 03:47:00	webknjaz	@__that__ modern pip provisions the build deps in an isolated env, updating setuptools or other things separately does not influence that.
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2021-05-26 03:52:08	__that__	webknjaz, since the original problem is that abi3 tag is not understood by my old pipenv engine I renamed it to cp36m and it is now working
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2021-05-26 03:57:00	rann	hey all, quick question: is there a difference between using dict() and {} to initialize an empty/new dict? Is one preferred over the other?
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2021-05-26 03:59:03	BrenBarn	There's no difference in the result
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2021-05-26 03:59:10	BrenBarn	usually people use `{}`
2021-05-26 03:59:53	b2xiao	fwiw, {} is faster and easier to type
2021-05-26 03:59:59	b2xiao	and it runs faster too
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2021-05-26 04:04:11	rann	what is the reason for dict() existing then?
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2021-05-26 04:05:26	bjs	rann: two reasons: dict can take arguments, to build non-empty dicts.
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2021-05-26 04:05:42	bjs	so you can go dict(**some_mapping_obj) for e.g., and it work even if the mapping object is empty
2021-05-26 04:05:51	bjs	rann: and so you can pass `dict` (without calling it) around
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2021-05-26 04:06:12	bjs	or dict(iterable_of_key_value_pairs)  and it work if the iterable is empty
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2021-05-26 04:06:38	bjs	(although I guess that'd look like dict([]) rather than dict(), so maybe less important)
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2021-05-26 04:07:11	rann	right, ok! thanks for that
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2021-05-26 04:22:57	amosbird	Wulf: ok..
2021-05-26 04:23:19	amosbird	hmm, can I check if a dict contains a key with given prefix?
2021-05-26 04:23:39	nop	hey. I'm calling PyErr_SetInterrupt() to try and interrupt a running cpython interpreter in another thread
2021-05-26 04:23:50	nop	it doesnt work though, the interpreter keeps running
2021-05-26 04:23:54	nop	any ideas whats going on?
2021-05-26 04:23:54	bjs	amosbird: not without looping over each key
2021-05-26 04:23:57	bjs	amosbird: maybe a dict isn't the best idea
2021-05-26 04:24:00	bjs	nop: what do you mean?
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2021-05-26 04:24:25	mud	amosbird: Only by iterating over the keys. There's other data structures that should allow that if you really need it, but it won't be called 'dict'
2021-05-26 04:24:27	jarthur	amosbird sounds like a trie or similar would be a better data structure for that use case, but with dict it's    any(k.startswith(prefix) for k in my_dict)
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2021-05-26 04:24:36	nop	bjs: we are embedding python 3.6 in our c++ application, i want to be able to interrupt the interpreter at any time. PyErr_SetInterrupt() is supposed to do that but it does nothing
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2021-05-26 04:25:10	bjs	nop: In general the signals are only handled by the main thread
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2021-05-26 04:25:56	nop	so we would need to run the interpreter in the same thread where Py_InitializeEx() was called?
2021-05-26 04:26:05	nop	sorry, call the function
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2021-05-26 04:26:33	nop	that's not an option, our main thread has to refresh the GUI
2021-05-26 04:26:42	amosbird	ok, thanks bjs mud  jarthur
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2021-05-26 04:27:46	nop	bjs: is there another way?
2021-05-26 04:27:57	nop	surely the interpreter must be checking some flags every once in a while
2021-05-26 04:28:34	bjs	nop: yes that's what SetInterrupt does, it sets a flag.
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2021-05-26 04:29:17	bjs	nop: but the checking of flags happens in the main thread,  I'm not sure if there's a shortcircuit to interrupt a thread in Python.  In general there are no "asynchronous" exceptions like this
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2021-05-26 04:29:40	bjs	nop: (and even if it could, it sounds like your thread isn't running pure-Python code anyway?)
2021-05-26 04:30:04	nop	that thread is, the main thread is busy refreshing the Qt GUI in c++ code
2021-05-26 04:30:26	nop	and when the user clicks "cancel" the main thread calls SetInterrupt()
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2021-05-26 04:54:56	merijn	I recall there was a way to check the version of a pip package using pep517.wrappers, but I can't for the life of me find how in the pep517 docs
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2021-05-26 05:00:49	JanC	is there any news on when Python will decide if/where to move its official IRC?
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2021-05-26 05:04:14	kosh	I really think we should just decide to move, especially given the more recent abuse of last night of clearing channels that pointed people to libera and then changing the rules to justify it after the fact
2021-05-26 05:04:53	greyblue9	the whole thing is just horrible
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2021-05-26 05:06:26	DPA	I'm for going to the new you-know-where ;)
2021-05-26 05:06:26	DPA	This is the last channel I'm still connected to freenode for.
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2021-05-26 05:07:15	kosh	most of the regulars are in both places already
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2021-05-26 05:07:49	kosh	although given what freenode did last night if we change the channel topic to point to libera the channel will likely just get wiped
2021-05-26 05:07:56	timothy	btw it's better OFTC than libera
2021-05-26 05:07:59	JanC	I don't care if (official) Python channels move to Libera.Chat or OFTC or elsewhere, just want to know where...   :)
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2021-05-26 05:09:07	kosh	I don't know anything about OFTC
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2021-05-26 05:09:44	mspe	oftc doesn't handle sasl, annoying
2021-05-26 05:10:20	DPA	The linux dri and xorg channels went there.
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2021-05-26 05:11:42	greyblue9	i can't find it - are they on google? :p
2021-05-26 05:11:47	kosh	given how many went to libera already it probably makes the most sense, I don't know how OFTC actually compares
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2021-05-26 05:14:59	greyblue9	ok nvm, found it
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2021-05-26 05:16:12	greyblue9	tempting
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2021-05-26 05:16:54	JanC	OFTC are mostly known for hosting the official Debian channels, but there are many other projects too
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2021-05-26 05:18:36	greyblue9	what's one more platform
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2021-05-26 05:32:10	guriya	hi
2021-05-26 05:33:00	guriya	https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum  is it very pythonic project to learn python?
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2021-05-26 05:51:11	kosh	guriya, sorry no idea about that
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2021-05-26 05:59:16	IoannisJVM	hello,how can i get the values of two different fields from a json? i try this json['value1']['value2'] but i'm getting  TypeError: list indices must be integers or slices, not str
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2021-05-26 05:59:50	bjs	IoannisJVM: there are far too many ways to interpret "two different fields" and "get the values"
2021-05-26 06:00:09	bjs	IoannisJVM: can you share exactly what the JSON looks like, and exactly what Python value you want to construct from them?
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2021-05-26 06:01:45	IoannisJVM	bjs https://dpaste.org/VgZkU here's the json
2021-05-26 06:01:55	IoannisJVM	i need to get id and triage_score
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2021-05-26 06:02:27	bjs	IoannisJVM: well you know how to get 1 value, can't you just do that twice? `the_id = json["id"]  ; the_triage_score = json["triage_score"]`
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2021-05-26 06:02:54	IoannisJVM	i forgot to mention that i need to return them to a dict
2021-05-26 06:03:35	IoannisJVM	for example mydict{"random":json['id']['triage_score']}
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2021-05-26 06:04:34	bjs	IoannisJVM: that doesn't seem right
2021-05-26 06:04:41	bjs	IoannisJVM: what do you want the dict to look like?
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2021-05-26 06:08:34	greyblue9	IoannisJVM: it sounds like what you have stored in 'json' is a list, not a dict
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2021-05-26 06:10:28	greyblue9	the object you showed is probably an element of some list
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2021-05-26 06:11:08	greyblue9	so maybe you need `json[0]["value1"]`
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2021-05-26 06:12:19	greyblue9	if you're not sure, print(json) and share that
2021-05-26 06:12:30	petaflot	weird. sometimes my @property isn't used properly ; I get <property object at 0x7f2e8164aef0> instead of the value the getter should return. if I remove the @property decorator and call it as a function, I get "missing 1 required positional argument: 'self'"
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2021-05-26 06:13:14	IoannisJVM	greyblue9 https://dpaste.org/gXX9 that's what i'm trying to do,convert a class to json and push the values that i need t oa dict
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2021-05-26 06:13:43	greyblue9	petaflot: this sounds like you needed to access it off some instance
2021-05-26 06:14:00	greyblue9	but you're accessing it on the class
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2021-05-26 06:15:29	greyblue9	you'd get the property descriptor which isnt bound to an instance  so there's no value for the property
2021-05-26 06:15:45	greyblue9	how is the property declared?
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2021-05-26 06:16:29	petaflot	greyblue9: it was instanciated... with a classmethod that sets at least another value properly
2021-05-26 06:16:31	bjs	IoannisJVM: I'm still not sure what part is giving you trouble
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2021-05-26 06:16:54	bjs	IoannisJVM: you have the triage_score and id as variables right there, can you not just use them however you want?
2021-05-26 06:17:00	greyblue9	IoannisJVM: i assumed you were using json.loads() or something
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2021-05-26 06:17:30	bjs	petaflot: a classmethod doesn't even take the instance as an argument
2021-05-26 06:17:42	bjs	petaflot: maybe you should share an example?
2021-05-26 06:18:00	bjs	petaflot: but @property's only work if you read/write them via an instance. `self.foo = ...` not `Class.foo = ...`
2021-05-26 06:18:52	petaflot	I'm checking this more into details and will try to make a minimall example
2021-05-26 06:18:54	nedbat	greyblue9, IoannisJVM, petaflot: let's move this discussion to lіbеrа.сhаt
2021-05-26 06:20:57	greyblue9	nedbat: it appears they are not in the libera channel
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2021-05-26 06:21:57	nedbat	greyblue9: that's why I'm asking them to join :)
2021-05-26 06:22:08	greyblue9	hehe
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2021-05-26 06:23:19	swensson	Hello, anyone know any "Map" library for python3? Need to extract long/latitude from the DB and show it on a map...
2021-05-26 06:23:35	gordonjcp	swensson: how are you displaying the map?
2021-05-26 06:23:36	IoannisJVM	libera channel or libera server?
2021-05-26 06:23:47	greyblue9	IoannisJVM, petaflot: yes, you will get more help there b/c it's way more active than this one now
2021-05-26 06:23:49	swensson	gordonjcp, I have nothing right now..
2021-05-26 06:23:51	nedbat	IoannisJVM: i'm not sure what you mean?
2021-05-26 06:23:59	swensson	This is a new project and I need to see what options I do have
2021-05-26 06:24:02	enkrypt	well... I'm leaving freenode, moving to libera.chat, I advise you all to do the same. byebye!
2021-05-26 06:24:04	greyblue9	server
2021-05-26 06:24:10	gordonjcp	swensson: one way to do it would be to use leaflet.js and show it in a browser
2021-05-26 06:24:31	IoannisJVM	nedbat now we are on freenode server
2021-05-26 06:24:32	swensson	gordonjcp thanks I'll look into that! :)
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2021-05-26 06:24:39	gordonjcp	swensson: there used to be a project osm-gps-map on github but I don't know if it's been updated much since the Gtk2 days - it's that long since I worked on it!
2021-05-26 06:24:43	nedbat	IoannisJVM: sorry, yes, libera server, #python channel
2021-05-26 06:24:43	IoannisJVM	should we move to libera server?
2021-05-26 06:24:51	IoannisJVM	awesome thanks:)
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2021-05-26 06:25:06	greyblue9	it's #python on irc.libera.chat
2021-05-26 06:25:08	gordonjcp	swensson: there's a general move to #python on libera.chat as a result of political shenanigans on Freenode
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2021-05-26 06:25:39	gordonjcp	... which I've just realised I haven't joined yet, I'm slowly migrating over :-)
2021-05-26 06:25:52	gordonjcp	swensson: anyway it's probably going to be busier ther
2021-05-26 06:25:56	swensson	gordonjcp Yeah I've heard that something is going on here but not really "in the loop"
2021-05-26 06:26:24	catbeard	swensson: https://sysadmin.name/freenode-irc-hostile-takeover/
2021-05-26 06:26:26	greyblue9	this channel might not even stay around depending cuz a bunch of freenode channels got nuked recently
2021-05-26 06:26:35	gordonjcp	swensson: https://www.kline.sh/
2021-05-26 06:27:05	swensson	Oh, kinda a big deal huh
2021-05-26 06:27:05	gordonjcp	swensson: tl;dr Freenode got bought over, now the person that bought it is bringing in 4channers to run it
2021-05-26 06:27:29	greyblue9	unfortunately it turned into a big deal
2021-05-26 06:27:37	gordonjcp	swensson: many of us crabbit auld bastards dislike this move, having been on IRC since before most 4channers were born
2021-05-26 06:27:57	GreenBean	gordonjcp: libera.chat is still IRC
2021-05-26 06:27:58	swensson	gordonjcp haha, I took almost a 10year break from this but now i'm back ;D
2021-05-26 06:28:00	GreenBean	what are you talking about ;)
2021-05-26 06:28:01	gordonjcp	GreenBean: yes
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2021-05-26 06:28:08	jonascj	Comments translating hard-to-read if-elif statements, any preferences as to whether they go inside the body of the statement of before the statement? https://bpa.st/6ABA
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2021-05-26 06:28:12	greyblue9	we wouldn't have moved ideally
2021-05-26 06:28:21	greyblue9	but it's moot now
2021-05-26 06:28:25	gordonjcp	swensson: rather than telling all these damn kids to get off our lawn, we're simply rolling up our lawn and moving it to a nicer neighbourhood
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2021-05-26 06:28:27	GreenBean	I've been on Freenode since it was called OpenProjectsNet
2021-05-26 06:28:28	catbeard	libera is the new network run by former staff that we know and love
2021-05-26 06:28:37	GreenBean	^
2021-05-26 06:28:45	PJBoy	jonascj, I'm a fan of before
2021-05-26 06:28:53	greyblue9	gordonjcp: indeed
2021-05-26 06:29:02	GreenBean	anyways private money lost
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2021-05-26 06:29:07	GreenBean	Mr Andrew Lee botched this
2021-05-26 06:29:13	GreenBean	this network will die
2021-05-26 06:29:17	gordonjcp	greyblue9: yup
2021-05-26 06:29:27	greyblue9	we just want you over there so your questions can be answered
2021-05-26 06:29:28	PJBoy	idk that it will die
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2021-05-26 06:29:31	jonascj	PJBoy I tend to do that as well - and pep8 does explicitly disagree, maybe that is that then :-)
2021-05-26 06:29:35	gordonjcp	greyblue9: stretching the metaphor like crazy, we're old, we're experienced, and we can afford big enough trucks to do that
2021-05-26 06:29:49	PJBoy	I foresee it becoming a alt-right haven
2021-05-26 06:30:29	greyblue9	its already starting, i think
2021-05-26 06:30:32	PJBoy	jonascj, you tend to disagree with pep8 eh?
2021-05-26 06:30:32	catbeard	well now that racism and bigotry are allowed here, maybe
2021-05-26 06:30:36	-->	GermainZ (~GermainZ@unaffiliated/germainz) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:30:39	<--	Furai (~Furai@cookiehoster.furai.pl) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 06:30:42	catbeard	not >here< here, but freenode new policy
2021-05-26 06:30:50	-->	Furai (~Furai@cookiehoster.furai.pl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:30:53	jonascj	PJBoy *does not explicitly
2021-05-26 06:30:53	catbeard	https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/commit/1194a3e71a427a669ccdddee22006416d46eeb43
2021-05-26 06:31:06	<--	__that__ (c33ba87d@195.59.168.125) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 06:31:08	<--	DPA (~DPA@devuan/contributor/DPA) has left #python
2021-05-26 06:31:08	PJBoy	ohh
2021-05-26 06:31:11	PJBoy	gotcha
2021-05-26 06:31:11	Knyght	nedbat: has the channel officially moved? I've been waiting for the topic here to change before joining over there.
2021-05-26 06:31:11	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:31:33	catbeard	might wanna tell users in here officially before you topic it
2021-05-26 06:31:39	nedbat	Knyght: it turns out that mentioning lіbеrа.сhаt in the topic could be dangerous, so we haven't changed it.  We are moving.
2021-05-26 06:31:42	catbeard	or register ##python as the +f channel
2021-05-26 06:31:49	greyblue9	exactly
2021-05-26 06:31:51	PJBoy	fwiw I mostly disagree with pep8
2021-05-26 06:32:00	greyblue9	it'd invite further destruction
2021-05-26 06:32:22	PJBoy	python is one of the biggest channels on freenode
2021-05-26 06:32:33	PJBoy	I don't think writing libera in topic is necessary to attract attention
2021-05-26 06:32:39	-->	matkor (~matkor@93.179.197.152) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:32:53	Knyght	nedbat: oh, dangerous as in the channel here being taken over?
2021-05-26 06:32:54	kosh	PJBoy, last night most channels that had libera in their topic where removed
2021-05-26 06:32:55	bjs	PJBoy: a bot has been closing channels that mention libera.chat
2021-05-26 06:32:57	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:32:58	-->	Retr0id (~Retr0id2@unaffiliated/retr0id) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:33:01	nedbat	Knyght: yes
2021-05-26 06:33:01	<--	GermainZ (~GermainZ@unaffiliated/germainz) has left #python ("WeeChat 3.1")
2021-05-26 06:33:05	Knyght	oof
2021-05-26 06:33:08	PJBoy	I stand by my point
2021-05-26 06:33:09	Knyght	ok thanks for the heads up
2021-05-26 06:33:13	bjs	PJBoy: what is your point?
2021-05-26 06:33:19	kosh	PJBoy, and then they changed the rules after they removed the channels to make it okay
2021-05-26 06:33:23	nedbat	you might notice I am using homoglyphs when i say "lіbеrа.сhаt" here
2021-05-26 06:33:27	PJBoy	unless you mean it was literally a bot
2021-05-26 06:33:34	PJBoy	I figure it's just triggered humans
2021-05-26 06:33:41	greyblue9	so the point is the libera one is official
2021-05-26 06:33:42	bjs	PJBoy: no it was literally a bot
2021-05-26 06:33:44	bjs	with dumb rules
2021-05-26 06:33:50	nedbat	PJBoy: it was across the board, even on tiny channels
2021-05-26 06:33:52	PJBoy	ah then I rescind my comment
2021-05-26 06:33:58	kosh	bjs, with NEW dumb rules
2021-05-26 06:34:13	<--	swensson (5aeb133d@host-90-235-19-61.mobileonline.telia.com) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 06:34:26	Ninpo	nedbat: is there a channel to join over there yet?
2021-05-26 06:34:30	PJBoy	##c++-general has libera in the topic though
2021-05-26 06:34:30	greyblue9	nedbat: did not notice :p
2021-05-26 06:34:33	PJBoy	and it's alive and well
2021-05-26 06:34:39	kosh	Ninpo, #python same as here
2021-05-26 06:34:39	bjs	Ninpo: yes,  libera.chat has a #python that is alive and well
2021-05-26 06:34:40	PJBoy	so does ##math
2021-05-26 06:34:43	nedbat	Ninpo: #python there has been active for a week
2021-05-26 06:34:45	Ninpo	ah excellent
2021-05-26 06:34:50	kosh	Ninpo, everything is exactly the same, just connect to a different server
2021-05-26 06:34:56	bjs	PJBoy: single-hash channels are project channels
2021-05-26 06:35:00	kosh	Ninpo, same people, same names etc
2021-05-26 06:35:08	PJBoy	oh I see
2021-05-26 06:35:10	bjs	those were the ones that were targeted last night
2021-05-26 06:35:30	PJBoy	ok thanks for that info
2021-05-26 06:35:41	PJBoy	I didn't realise I was so out of the loop
2021-05-26 06:35:44	veek	Pandas how do i filter a column of values and drop -1 before multiplying t[x] = t[x].apply(lambda x: x*7)
2021-05-26 06:35:49	bjs	PJBoy: there is no reason to believe that tonight ##rust et al won't be gone next
2021-05-26 06:35:55	greyblue9	basically the "soul" of freenode has moved there
2021-05-26 06:35:58	<--	corvax (~corvus-co@unaffiliated/corvax) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:36:35	rgp	freenode exist as it was, under a new name, thats all it is
2021-05-26 06:36:37	bjs	PJBoy: I suspect the only reason this channel survived is because it says Libera? not Libera.Chat?
2021-05-26 06:36:59	kosh	that is what I suspect also
2021-05-26 06:37:01	bjs	which afaik is a total accident
2021-05-26 06:37:14	Ninpo	PJBoy: I think only the # namespace got hit, not ##
2021-05-26 06:37:17	greyblue9	so we are using a soul-less server currently :p
2021-05-26 06:37:24	kosh	otherwise this channel would have already been destroyed and it is one of the largest channels on the server
2021-05-26 06:37:29	PJBoy	the # vs ## argument makes sense
2021-05-26 06:37:37	PJBoy	idk about libera vs libera.chat
2021-05-26 06:37:40	matkor	Hi!  Can I make  installed in system packages (via apt-get install) available inside python3 venv?
2021-05-26 06:37:53	PJBoy	well I do actually
2021-05-26 06:37:55	bjs	PJBoy: does it?  why would mentioning another network's name in the topic be reason to crush the channel?
2021-05-26 06:37:58	PJBoy	because ##math uses libera.chat
2021-05-26 06:37:59	<--	epony (epony@unaffiliated/epony) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-26 06:38:42	PJBoy	bjs, I didn't mean to suggest that mentioning a network's name in the topic is grounds for crushing
2021-05-26 06:38:45	nedbat	matkor: hi, we are moving to lіbеrа.сhаt, you should ask there
2021-05-26 06:38:51	greyblue9	 bjs: well the whole issue is that it's arbitrary and pettiness is in charge here
2021-05-26 06:39:16	PJBoy	in fact I fully disagree with that
2021-05-26 06:39:17	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:39:25	catbeard	fwiw #gentoo has completely pulled out
2021-05-26 06:39:36	catbeard	they took it as an attack on them
2021-05-26 06:39:41	kosh	catbeard, they didn't have a choice, their channel was destroyed
2021-05-26 06:39:48	<--	trwired (ingwar@chlor.kofeina.net) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 06:39:53	catbeard	#python does
2021-05-26 06:39:55	<--	alexey (~alexey@dykyyyygfq4vdrtgn95ft-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:40:25	catbeard	but only because "oh no where are those 1300 users going to go if we close it"
2021-05-26 06:40:26	kosh	catbeard, but why stay somewhere that has destroyed so many other projects channels? do you just stay with a sword of damacles hanging above you?
2021-05-26 06:40:32	greyblue9	we are using lots of risky words... hope they don't attract attention of bad folks
2021-05-26 06:40:44	catbeard	kosh: i'm here to advocate moving
2021-05-26 06:40:52	kosh	catbeard, ok
2021-05-26 06:41:19	kosh	greyblue9, if they attract the attention of bad folks it is likely to just cause even more problems for the current server
2021-05-26 06:41:25	matkor	nedbat: What is lіbеrа.сhаt? Google has zero results about (?)
2021-05-26 06:41:28	<--	nerdraven (~nerdraven@196.45.51.47) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 06:41:35	Ninpo	matkor: another IRC network
2021-05-26 06:41:45	greyblue9	but we can say anything over there without fear, afaik?
2021-05-26 06:41:46	Ninpo	https://libera.chat/
2021-05-26 06:41:46	rgp	its original freenode under new name
2021-05-26 06:41:49	PJBoy	try `/server irc.libera.chat`
2021-05-26 06:41:52	rgp	not just another network
2021-05-26 06:41:55	bjs	matkor: it's a url,  libera.chat  will explain more
2021-05-26 06:42:33	nedbat	matkor: sorry, i used silly letters when I said it
2021-05-26 06:42:44	greyblue9	you guys know how to add the server to your clients?
2021-05-26 06:42:46	catbeard	/set irc.server.freenode.addresses irc.libera.chat; /reconnect
2021-05-26 06:42:52	catbeard	lol
2021-05-26 06:43:45	greyblue9	it's new enough it probably won't be a predefined option you'll see
2021-05-26 06:43:58	<--	[SLB] (~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:44:19	-->	deekej (~deekej@ip4-95-82-164-84.cust.nbox.cz) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:44:25	catbeard	works on weechat, assuming you set it up with freenode for network name
2021-05-26 06:44:40	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:44:48	greyblue9	catbeard: that's good
2021-05-26 06:44:48	catbeard	which btw #weechat along with most other irc client dev channels got seized and moved
2021-05-26 06:45:02	catbeard	flashcode has been angered
2021-05-26 06:45:06	catbeard	and that's not good
2021-05-26 06:45:15	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:45:37	catbeard	imagine the next update folks unable to connect to freenode lol
2021-05-26 06:45:43	greyblue9	well if nothing else you probably want to move to stop being nagged about it :p
2021-05-26 06:45:58	catbeard	i moved like 3 days ago
2021-05-26 06:46:34	greyblue9	sorry i meant for folks who didn't
2021-05-26 06:46:57	catbeard	o
2021-05-26 06:47:23	-->	twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@107.13.62.21) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:48:05	greyblue9	i see we've got work to do cuz theres quite a few questions coming in still
2021-05-26 06:48:15	<--	mad_moses (~mad_moses@2a02:810b:f3f:f0d0:d250:99ff:fe86:b052) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 06:48:18	<--	Trieste (T@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/trieste) has left #python ("Leaving")
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2021-05-26 06:49:52	catbeard	DeHackEd | I had one happen this morning. It was actually a bait channel to see if it would happen. topic said "Not on libera.chat" but it was hostile takeover'd anyway
2021-05-26 06:49:57	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 06:50:11	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 06:50:43	PJBoy	shout outs to tasvideos
2021-05-26 06:51:07	greyblue9	i don't see any of these questions being asked in libera #python yet :(
2021-05-26 06:51:12	-->	Stenean (~Stenean@cpc83645-brig20-2-0-cust98.3-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 06:51:26	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:51:36	Ninpo	Give it time
2021-05-26 06:51:42	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:51:45	PJBoy	people have to register on there
2021-05-26 06:51:52	<--	b800h (~b800h@205.210.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 06:52:06	<--	nabil_ (~nabil@105.100.55.10) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:52:07	PJBoy	which for people like me is a gateway to procrastination
2021-05-26 06:52:21	<--	twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@107.13.62.21) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:52:26	 *	greyblue9 pops valium
2021-05-26 06:52:45	Yhg1s	Please do move to libera if you want #python as managed under the auspices of the PSF. Also, if you want quality help in the long run.
2021-05-26 06:52:53	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:52:59	-->	Laibsch (~Laibsch@dynamic-002-243-117-178.2.243.pool.telefonica.de) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:53:04	Yhg1s	There is no way freenode comes out of this well.
2021-05-26 06:53:06	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:53:14	<--	Leonarbro (~Leonet@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-26 06:54:04	Ninpo	Yhg1s: is there somewhere/someone we can report to/nudge to change the freenode links on python.org
2021-05-26 06:54:33	-->	swensson (5aeb133d@host-90-235-19-61.mobileonline.telia.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:54:50	-->	webpigeon (webpigeon@apps.fossgalaxy.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:54:51	Yhg1s	I am doing so.
2021-05-26 06:54:53	-->	tga (~tga@unaffiliated/tga) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:54:58	-->	jiggawattz (jiggawattz@runs.on.ubuntu.crapping.cricket) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:55:02	-->	henninb (~henninb@63-226-165-91.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:55:02	<--	webpigeon (webpigeon@apps.fossgalaxy.com) has left #python ("https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
2021-05-26 06:55:16	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:55:18	Yhg1s	(nudging, that is.)
2021-05-26 06:55:31	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:55:32	<--	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-26 06:56:00	-->	teut (ab3294f0@unaffiliated/teut) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 06:56:51	Ninpo	nice
2021-05-26 06:56:52	-->	inex (~inex@unaffiliated/inex) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:57:00	--	Mode #python [+o Yhg1s] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 06:57:03	--	Yhg1s has changed topic for #python from "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera? It's being spoken about but there's no answer. | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops │ #python-fr #python.de #python-uk #python-es #pyar #python.tw #python-br #python-nl #python-ir #python.it #python-ro #python-india #python-hu" to "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-05-26 06:57:03	greyblue9	Ninpo: zero results? what did you search for?
2021-05-26 06:57:04	bjs	can you update the topic?
2021-05-26 06:57:05	bjs	ah
2021-05-26 06:57:07	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:57:09	--	Mode #python [-o Yhg1s] by Yhg1s
2021-05-26 06:57:13	swensson	gordonjcp The leaflet seems to work perfectly. Tho I need to import some data (from a excel sheet with long/latitude) Any recommendations on the approach for this?
2021-05-26 06:57:14	Ninpo	greyblue9: wat
2021-05-26 06:57:24	bjs	Yhg1s mindreader
2021-05-26 06:57:27	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:57:43	gcbirzan	Also, very neutral :)
2021-05-26 06:57:43	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:57:49	teut	https://bpa.st/UCRQ   if closing_date is a onetoone field  with start and end as 2 fields  then how to assign widgets to them?
2021-05-26 06:57:51	greyblue9	 Ninpo: you said when you searched for it you got 0 results?
2021-05-26 06:58:00	Ninpo	I said nothing of the kind
2021-05-26 06:58:05	-->	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:58:05	bjs	teut: do you want to join #python on irc.libera.chat rather than here?
2021-05-26 06:58:09	catbeard	wonder if it would be less neutral to put that at the beginning
2021-05-26 06:58:10	bjs	teut: everyone who usually helps you is there, not here
2021-05-26 06:58:12	-->	DnzAtWrk (~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df04b-240.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:58:12	teut	how?
2021-05-26 06:58:13	bjs	anymore
2021-05-26 06:58:14	greyblue9	ok  my apologies
2021-05-26 06:58:26	<--	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:58:34	<--	rpittau (sid346891@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwhwdnkbwemyetsb) has left #python
2021-05-26 06:58:36	teut	you r here bjs , lol
2021-05-26 06:58:41	-->	kolcon (~kolcon@v.kolouch.org) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:58:45	bjs	teut: I am not answering questions here anymore
2021-05-26 06:58:45	gcbirzan	All the cool kids are there.
2021-05-26 06:58:54	--	Mode #python [+o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 06:58:58	teut	then can you help me to join libera?
2021-05-26 06:59:05	--	nedbat has changed topic for #python from "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Libera channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops" to "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Lіbеrа channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-05-26 06:59:05	catbeard	`/set irc.server.freenode.addresses irc.libera.chat` and `/reconnect`
2021-05-26 06:59:09	-->	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 06:59:14	PJBoy	since hate speech is allowed here, we can just tell everyone to fuck off and die :p
2021-05-26 06:59:15	--	Mode #python [-o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 06:59:24	Ninpo	https://libera.chat
2021-05-26 06:59:26	bjs	PJBoy: but this channel still has a CoC :)
2021-05-26 06:59:29	Yhg1s	PJBoy: not in #python, though.
2021-05-26 06:59:40	bjs	teut: what client do you use?
2021-05-26 06:59:41	PJBoy	:D
2021-05-26 06:59:56	teut	https://ibb.co/v4SFxx1  what to click?
2021-05-26 07:00:08	teut	https://webchat.freenode.net/   I open #python   with this site
2021-05-26 07:00:10	Yhg1s	FYI, I removed the other-channels list in the topic because at least #python-fr got taken from its registered owners in the latest purge.
2021-05-26 07:00:15	teut	no clients used till now
2021-05-26 07:00:19	Ninpo	teut: https://libera.chat
2021-05-26 07:00:33	teut	Ninpo tell what to click
2021-05-26 07:00:38	Ninpo	No
2021-05-26 07:00:39	bjs	teut: do you use the webchat?
2021-05-26 07:00:44	bjs	teut: not hexchat or something?
2021-05-26 07:00:51	teut	I think webchat
2021-05-26 07:01:10	Ninpo	I mean if you're capable of stringing some python together you can look at a very obvious page without me holding your hand quit being so lazy
2021-05-26 07:01:11	bjs	teut: take a read of https://libera.chat/guides/clients
2021-05-26 07:01:15	bjs	libera doesn't have webchat (yet)
2021-05-26 07:01:31	greyblue9	Ninpo: not helping
2021-05-26 07:01:31	teut	I actually have Mibbit I think
2021-05-26 07:01:32	Ninpo	Big Pink "Connect" link right there
2021-05-26 07:01:46	guriya	one can use kwirc
2021-05-26 07:01:46	<--	swensson (5aeb133d@host-90-235-19-61.mobileonline.telia.com) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 07:01:49	guriya	on web
2021-05-26 07:01:59	teut	irc.libera.chat:6697 (TLS)  I clicked this on that page
2021-05-26 07:02:03	bjs	yeah that clients guide mentions kiwi irc
2021-05-26 07:02:18	teut	https://ibb.co/cDXy3tL
2021-05-26 07:02:27	bjs	teut: pick a client, like Kiwi IRC, or HexChat or something and then follow the instructions on how to connect to a server
2021-05-26 07:02:27	teut	yes but kiwi irc is paid
2021-05-26 07:02:39	bjs	teut: click open link?
2021-05-26 07:02:40	tga	teut: irccloud.com
2021-05-26 07:02:41	greyblue9	"openlink"
2021-05-26 07:02:42	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:02:46	teut	yes I already did
2021-05-26 07:02:49	<--	rahulch (~rahul@2405:201:8002:c07f:7b17:5a6:4fb0:65a) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:02:55	teut	let me show where I m stuck then
2021-05-26 07:02:57	kosh	teut, hexchat is completely free and easy to setup
2021-05-26 07:02:59	<--	olasd (~olasd@pdpc/supporter/active/olasd) has left #python ("WeeChat 3.0")
2021-05-26 07:03:04	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:03:09	teut	yes it is but itsugly
2021-05-26 07:03:22	kosh	https://hexchat.github.io/
2021-05-26 07:03:24	<--	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:03:26	bjs	teut: there are *lots* of options for good irc clients.  From terminal-based (e.g. irssi), to GUI ones (like hexchat) to pure web-based ones (Kiwi IRC and IRCCloud)
2021-05-26 07:03:30	-->	stockholm (~Andreas@p200300d2c7091400bd52502f62714556.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:03:32	-->	b800h (~b800h@205.210.187.81.in-addr.arpa) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:03:34	tga	irccloud is decent, and you don't need to install anything
2021-05-26 07:03:36	<--	Anthaas (~Anthaas@unaffiliated/anthaas) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:03:46	bjs	eventually libera.chat will get a webchat too,  but until then you'll have to use a traditional client
2021-05-26 07:03:52	teut	ok
2021-05-26 07:04:06	teut	I m focussing on joining first
2021-05-26 07:04:09	greyblue9	teut: sure
2021-05-26 07:04:25	kosh	teut, this is kind of a forced move because of recent changes here that destroyed hundreds of channels last night
2021-05-26 07:04:50	kosh	teut, we don't know how much longer this channel will even exist here
2021-05-26 07:04:56	-->	Anthaas (~Anthaas@unaffiliated/anthaas) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:05:01	<--	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:05:03	greyblue9	 teut: what's on your screen now?
2021-05-26 07:05:03	teut	https://ibb.co/dKMNYBw
2021-05-26 07:05:30	-->	gareppa (~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:05:38	greyblue9	good, you are on the server
2021-05-26 07:05:47	teut	yes kosh I read that discussion the other day which ChrisWarrick was having here
2021-05-26 07:05:52	greyblue9	you just need to `/join #python`
2021-05-26 07:05:56	teut	but I m alone
2021-05-26 07:06:08	-->	Steinberg2010 (~Steinberg@2603-7000-2d07-0b47-73a2-f81f-a9bf-528e.res6.spectrum.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:06:33	teut	again alone
2021-05-26 07:06:53	greyblue9	send that in the message prompt you're looking at, then what happens
2021-05-26 07:06:55	teut	https://ibb.co/h7PBhfv
2021-05-26 07:07:00	-->	swensson (5aeb133d@host-90-235-19-61.mobileonline.telia.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:07:47	-->	stormkl (~stormkl@176.236.125.242) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:07:50	<--	indy (~indy@dsl-static-104.213-160-167.telecom.sk) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:07:50	greyblue9	well that's strange, messages aren't showing up
2021-05-26 07:07:57	greyblue9	?
2021-05-26 07:08:08	teut	idk
2021-05-26 07:08:15	teut	why m I alone there?
2021-05-26 07:08:31	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:08:32	greyblue9	send something and i'll see if i can see it
2021-05-26 07:08:34	kosh	why does it say irc.us.mibbit.net for joining the channel
2021-05-26 07:08:43	kosh	on teut's screenshot
2021-05-26 07:08:45	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:08:53	<--	vimal (~vimal@2a02:a210:9600:ae80:a455:1222:6963:5ed1) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:08:55	greyblue9	good point..
2021-05-26 07:08:59	<--	whaley (~whaley@066-169-090-170.res.spectrum.com) has quit (Quit: ¡siesta!)
2021-05-26 07:09:08	-->	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:09:09	kosh	I think it is not connecting to the right server
2021-05-26 07:09:11	teut	yes resetting password bjs
2021-05-26 07:09:44	greyblue9	teut: click that green tab that says "Libera.Chat"
2021-05-26 07:09:45	<--	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:09:57	kosh	teut, can you go to the libera.chat tab and from inside that tab type /join #python
2021-05-26 07:10:04	bjs	teut: are you replying to the messages I sent you on irc.libera.chat here?
2021-05-26 07:10:05	bjs	:P
2021-05-26 07:10:11	teut	yes just give 1 min greyblue9 , I ll have to reset password
2021-05-26 07:10:16	teut	yes bjs
2021-05-26 07:10:18	greyblue9	no problem
2021-05-26 07:10:23	<--	Steinberg2010 (~Steinberg@2603-7000-2d07-0b47-73a2-f81f-a9bf-528e.res6.spectrum.com) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 07:10:32	teut	but I got no mail from them
2021-05-26 07:10:34	<--	vidbina (~vid@5-203-195-107.pat.nym.cosmote.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:10:48	-->	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:10:53	kosh	it can take just a little bit to show up, especially with so many moving at once
2021-05-26 07:11:06	greyblue9	we think it's because you joined #python on a different server
2021-05-26 07:11:15	-->	Guest20 (~textual@192.146.154.3) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:11:23	<--	guriya (a0ee4a8c@unaffiliated/guriya) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:11:25	nop	bjs: can i control which thread cpython considers to be the "main thread"?
2021-05-26 07:11:36	nop	and those are actual OS level threads, right?
2021-05-26 07:11:51	teut	what does that mean greyblue9?
2021-05-26 07:12:08	greyblue9	see the two green tabs?
2021-05-26 07:12:11	nedbat	nop: the first thread in the program is the main thread.
2021-05-26 07:12:24	nedbat	nop: also, we are moving to libera
2021-05-26 07:12:44	teut	Username invalid or already taken. Please make sure username is alphanumeric and 4-16 characters.
2021-05-26 07:12:55	bjs	teut: you need to register on irc.libera.chat not here
2021-05-26 07:12:56	teut	yes greyblue9
2021-05-26 07:13:10	<--	nemo_ (~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo/x-0958849) has quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 07:13:12	teut	yes and it showed me that bjs
2021-05-26 07:13:15	bjs	teut: no "reset" or anything, but to register completely from scratch and new over there
2021-05-26 07:13:15	teut	Username invalid or already taken. Please make sure username is alphanumeric and 4-16 characters.
2021-05-26 07:13:20	-->	vidbina (~vid@ppp-2-86-228-223.home.otenet.gr) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:13:25	bjs	teut: teut is not taken there
2021-05-26 07:13:31	-->	n00b101 (uid448161@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aeitokgiitiaajql) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:13:34	greyblue9	well when you did /join #python, probably Mibbit was what you were on
2021-05-26 07:13:51	teut	i might have installed it later greyblue9
2021-05-26 07:13:58	bjs	teut: message me back on libera
2021-05-26 07:14:22	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:14:28	teut	https://ibb.co/N20R9vP
2021-05-26 07:14:43	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:14:50	teut	why its showing SYSTEM?
2021-05-26 07:15:36	bjs	teut: I do not know :)
2021-05-26 07:15:48	greyblue9	yes your nick needs registering
2021-05-26 07:16:13	teut	https://ibb.co/7QP9pnB  this shit asks for money
2021-05-26 07:16:16	-->	Croves (b164c18d@177.100.193.141) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:16:29	teut	I chose a differnt name , teuton27
2021-05-26 07:16:58	greyblue9	stupid program
2021-05-26 07:17:14	bjs	teut: oh I see
2021-05-26 07:17:15	teut	I ll install hexchat soon
2021-05-26 07:17:16	bjs	that's my fault
2021-05-26 07:17:19	teut	?
2021-05-26 07:17:32	bjs	teut: you should be able to message me now
2021-05-26 07:17:37	bjs	I had +R from the spammers
2021-05-26 07:18:09	greyblue9	teut: click 'Continue to the Mibbit client' ?
2021-05-26 07:18:21	teut	yes I obviously did that
2021-05-26 07:18:28	greyblue9	ok, good
2021-05-26 07:19:01	<--	veek (~veek@unaffiliated/veek) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 07:19:20	-->	nabil (~nabil@105.101.129.159) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:19:57	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:20:09	greyblue9	do you need help registering?
2021-05-26 07:20:41	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:21:22	greyblue9	https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-05-26 07:21:34	greyblue9	those are the instructions
2021-05-26 07:21:53	greyblue9	ignore #4
2021-05-26 07:22:11	teut	https://ibb.co/gdySXK2
2021-05-26 07:22:21	rendar	if i have a child class, how can i tell python print() to print that class using parent's __repr__ ?
2021-05-26 07:22:59	teut	have I registered?
2021-05-26 07:23:01	bjs	rendar: hi,  by the way we're moving to libera.chat . Everyone who usually answers your questions are there now, not here
2021-05-26 07:23:05	greyblue9	did you include your email?
2021-05-26 07:23:06	<--	vidbina (~vid@ppp-2-86-228-223.home.otenet.gr) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:23:13	kosh	rendar use print(repr(child)) also go to libera.chat
2021-05-26 07:23:13	<--	JanC (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC) has left #python ("'k zien d'r mee weh zi")
2021-05-26 07:23:13	teut	Syntax: REGISTER password email
2021-05-26 07:23:18	teut	yes I did
2021-05-26 07:23:21	rendar	ok, ok
2021-05-26 07:23:59	rendar	kosh: it doesn't work since the child reimplements __repr__
2021-05-26 07:24:23	-->	nemo_ (~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo/x-0958849) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:24:27	greyblue9	you did /msg NickServ REGISTER <password> <email>
2021-05-26 07:24:35	kosh	rendar, freenode has been destroying channels so time to move
2021-05-26 07:24:47	rendar	ok ok
2021-05-26 07:25:25	<--	matkor (~matkor@93.179.197.152) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-26 07:25:25	<--	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:25:30	greyblue9	it should print some stuff to say it worked
2021-05-26 07:25:41	teut	no greyblue9
2021-05-26 07:25:50	teut	REGISTER x y
2021-05-26 07:26:01	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:26:14	teut	trying that  1 sec
2021-05-26 07:26:35	-->	Haudegen (~quassel@91.114.49.10) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:26:40	<--	Rudd0 (~Rudd0@185.189.115.103) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:26:55	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:27:00	<--	Laibsch (~Laibsch@dynamic-002-243-117-178.2.243.pool.telefonica.de) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-05-26 07:27:25	-->	legola (~legola@unaffiliated/legola) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:27:32	kosh	rendar, I don't think this quick move is what anyone wanted, it was just kind of forced on us
2021-05-26 07:27:47	kosh	rendar, at least one of the python language channels has already been removed
2021-05-26 07:27:51	nop	nedbat: the first thread in.. my c++ program which embeds python?
2021-05-26 07:28:08	nop	how does python even know that?
2021-05-26 07:28:14	nedbat	nop: I guess so. What do you mean by "main thread"? Why change it?
2021-05-26 07:28:17	rendar	kosh: yes i was reading about it, it's incredible...
2021-05-26 07:28:38	nop	nedbat: our actual main thread is the one drawing the gui and the python interpreter runs in a different one
2021-05-26 07:28:46	nop	nedbat: and i need to interrupt that one
2021-05-26 07:29:09	-->	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:29:13	<--	IoannisJVM (2e0ca0fa@46.12.160.250.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 07:29:14	nedbat	nop: i don''t know which of the two you mean, and I don't know what you mean by interrupt
2021-05-26 07:29:26	-->	kdc (~kdc@196.211.197.131) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:29:42	Yhg1s	nop: there isn't really a difference between the 'main thread' and any other one.
2021-05-26 07:29:42	nop	nedbat: gui thread has a button, user presses that button, button should trigger an exit of the interpreter which runs in another thread
2021-05-26 07:29:57	Croves	Hello! I've been trying to apply for a position as a mid level python developer and there's this question that it seems I have failed. Can anyone provide some guidance? `Imagine you have a large text file (~2G) with one JSON per line and you need to extract a value from each line. Which tool(s) would you most likely use? Why?` I would open the file
2021-05-26 07:29:57	Croves	using a WITH statement and loop over the file object to read the lines. This is memory efficient, fast, and leads to simple code - also, I would use json standard library to parse the content
2021-05-26 07:30:06	Croves	Note I have a limit of characters to answer this question
2021-05-26 07:30:21	nop	Py_SetInterrupt() doesnt work, Py_AddPendingCall() doesnt work either
2021-05-26 07:30:21	<--	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:30:23	<--	vlt (~dm@157.230.21.14) has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-05-26 07:30:33	Wulf	Croves: sounds reasonable
2021-05-26 07:30:47	nop	Croves: my answer would be "why the f would anyone use json for 2gb of data?"
2021-05-26 07:30:49	-->	mateusz (~mateusz@2a01:6e60:10:793:666:feed:dead:beef) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:30:55	Yhg1s	nop: what is the Python code doing?
2021-05-26 07:30:55	Wulf	nop: log files.
2021-05-26 07:31:09	nedbat	nop: it's a separate json object per line, jsonl format
2021-05-26 07:31:14	nop	Wulf: are those JSON now?
2021-05-26 07:31:18	Croves	Wulf Yes I mean, I'm not a PRO at python but also not a totally beginer. This sounds reasonable to me too, but for some reason I keep failing the screening process
2021-05-26 07:31:19	-->	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:31:22	Wulf	nop: sometimes, yes.
2021-05-26 07:31:46	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:31:56	nop	Yhg1s: the python code executes user-defined scripts. right now, running a tight endless loop for testing
2021-05-26 07:32:10	-->	dastier (~dastier@178.172.192.75) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:32:12	-->	alexhugo (~honigkuch@ip5b429953.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:32:15	nop	Yhg1s: it might never call back into the C++ code and will still need to be interrupted
2021-05-26 07:32:29	<--	honigkuchen (~honigkuch@ip5b429953.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:32:47	Yhg1s	nop: IIRC, only the thread that calls Py_Initialize() or PyEval_InitThreads() will be interruptable that way.
2021-05-26 07:32:53	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:32:54	Croves	I mean, 2gb isn't that big. Maybe the recruiter wants to hear me using Pandas? Since it's a position for Analytics
2021-05-26 07:33:09	Yhg1s	(if you need this kind of control over Python threads, you almost certainly don't want to embed Python.)
2021-05-26 07:33:16	Wulf	Croves: if you want it complicated, you can use some sax-like json parser and create objects from the json syntax events.
2021-05-26 07:33:56	Croves	Wulf: I prefer to keep it simple
2021-05-26 07:34:36	Yhg1s	Croves: your answer was the simple one, and a sensible one. if this somehow made you fail the interview, they should tell you why (so you can have a nice laugh at it.)
2021-05-26 07:34:37	nedbat	Croves: what is assessing your answer?
2021-05-26 07:34:41	<--	tga (~tga@unaffiliated/tga) has left #python
2021-05-26 07:34:42	inex	Croves: fail? wut? seems to me like iterating each line and parsing it is the simplest and probably most straightforward solution
2021-05-26 07:35:10	Yhg1s	(also, please use libera or another IRC network)
2021-05-26 07:35:10	<--	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 07:35:27	Wulf	Croves: question was "Which tool(s) would you most likely use? Why?". They didn't ask about how you would implement it in python.
2021-05-26 07:35:32	-->	finkata1 (~finkata@83.222.188.39) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:35:35	Croves	Maybe my resume is crap... and the answer is correct but my resume isn't that impressive...
2021-05-26 07:36:12	-->	rjwiii (~kvirc@072-187-028-004.res.spectrum.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:36:14	kosh	Croves, sometimes interviewers have been given a specific thing to look for and if you don't have that answer they don't accept it because often the interviewer is not a coder
2021-05-26 07:36:27	kosh	Croves, and fairly often the answers they have been given a horrible answers
2021-05-26 07:36:34	<--	petn-randall (~petn-rand@unaffiliated/petn-randall) has left #python
2021-05-26 07:36:56	Croves	Well I'll try again with this answer and see where it goes
2021-05-26 07:37:18	Wulf	Croves: so you're given multiple chances at the interview?!
2021-05-26 07:37:22	kosh	honestly I hate those coding exams and questions
2021-05-26 07:38:00	Croves	Wulf they have this same question in their website
2021-05-26 07:38:00	-->	garylabronz (~jdwyer@180-150-48-44.b49630.mel.static.aussiebb.net) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 07:38:04	Croves	In the careers page
2021-05-26 07:38:06	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:38:11	nop	Yhg1s: i see, okay. that's a pity. might mean that we need to keep a thread running for python
2021-05-26 07:38:17	<--	summonner (~summonner@188.24.32.173) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 07:38:18	Croves	So you fill a form with your name, email, resume and answer to this question
2021-05-26 07:38:41	-->	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 07:39:18	Wulf	Croves: could you please answer `<nedbat> Croves: what is assessing your answer?' ?
2021-05-26 07:40:30	-->	whaley (~whaley@066-169-090-170.res.spectrum.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:40:58	Croves	Wulf nedbat sorry I missed this question. I don't know what or who... it's just a form in their website
2021-05-26 07:41:03	-->	wingsorc (~wingsorc@unaffiliated/wingsorc) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:41:21	nedbat	Croves: is it an instant reply? that is, is a person answering, or a machine?
2021-05-26 07:41:48	Croves	nedbat Probably a recruiter.
2021-05-26 07:42:03	Croves	I always received the rejection e-mail a few days after applying
2021-05-26 07:42:16	Croves	From a real person, not some random noreply@company.com
2021-05-26 07:42:47	Wulf	Croves: same person for each reply? If I were a recruiter, I'd get pretty annoyed if someone submitted multiple applications.
2021-05-26 07:42:51	teut	https://ibb.co/9b4cTVv
2021-05-26 07:42:57	teut	what is it saying?
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2021-05-26 07:45:22	Croves	Wulf different recruiters so far.. but yes I'm trying to join this company for a while now
2021-05-26 07:45:29	teut	https://ibb.co/ysnZt6P
2021-05-26 07:45:37	bjs	teut: it's saying you need to identify as teut
2021-05-26 07:45:40	bjs	by typing your password
2021-05-26 07:45:51	bjs	teut: yes that's the email you need
2021-05-26 07:45:56	Croves	Last time they closed the position. I had passed all technical assessments, it was a pain
2021-05-26 07:46:00	teut	I copied that but it says INvalid code
2021-05-26 07:46:05	bjs	teut: to verify registration
2021-05-26 07:46:10	-->	oxek (oxek@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/oxek) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 07:46:30	teut	mibbit    IRCClient:irc.libera.chat: No such nickname online.
2021-05-26 07:46:32	bjs	teut: you seem to have connected to mibbit
2021-05-26 07:46:47	kosh	even that email is confirming a user on mibbit
2021-05-26 07:46:49	kosh	not libera
2021-05-26 07:47:00	teut	platinum.libera.chat    477:  | [0] teut, [1] #python, [2] Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
2021-05-26 07:47:00	-->	cousteau (~cousteau@unaffiliated/cousteau) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:47:08	bjs	teut: your client appears to be connected to both libera and mibbit,  you probably want to disconnect from mibbit and use libera only
2021-05-26 07:47:14	teut	ok
2021-05-26 07:47:15	bjs	(or until you learn how to use the client that is)
2021-05-26 07:47:35	kosh	teut, look at that email, it is asking you to confirm your name for the wrong network
2021-05-26 07:47:50	bjs	teut: yes that email is for mibbit not libera
2021-05-26 07:48:03	teut	I used password reset
2021-05-26 07:48:07	-->	twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@107.13.62.21) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:48:13	teut	so idk what is it
2021-05-26 07:48:19	bjs	teut: "reset' doesn't sound right
2021-05-26 07:48:19	<--	stockholm (~Andreas@p200300d2c7091400bd52502f62714556.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:48:35	bjs	teut: you are not even connected to libera right now.
2021-05-26 07:49:07	-->	Laibsch (~Laibsch@2a01:c23:68a7:f600:f4a7:4da0:e828:cbaf) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:49:11	teut	let me login again
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2021-05-26 07:49:57	teut	https://ibb.co/6DZNmXF  ok?
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2021-05-26 07:50:30	bjs	teut: yes, you won't get into #python until after you've completed registration and authentication
2021-05-26 07:50:42	teut	https://ibb.co/16jBJS6  ok so here was the mistake
2021-05-26 07:50:50	-->	alexey (~alexey@dykyyyygfq4vdrtgn95ft-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) has joined #python
2021-05-26 07:50:53	teut	It was set to mibbit as default
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2021-05-26 07:54:23	teut	https://ibb.co/0fD5wTH
2021-05-26 07:54:26	teut	https://ibb.co/0fD5wTH
2021-05-26 07:54:39	teut	this even is not working
2021-05-26 07:54:47	teut	mibbit    IRCClient:irc.librairc.net: No such nickname online.
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2021-05-26 07:56:18	gcbirzan	irc.librairc.net is the wrong network
2021-05-26 07:56:32	bjs	teut: irc.libera.chat is the network
2021-05-26 07:57:03	<--	Croves (b164c18d@177.100.193.141) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-05-26 07:57:26	bjs	teut: #python-offtopic maybe
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2021-05-26 07:57:32	bjs	not that it matters anymore :P
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2021-05-26 07:58:21	greyblue9	its the last real topic
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2021-05-26 08:04:00	Mulugruntz	test
2021-05-26 08:04:09	-->	bsdbandit-01 (~bsdbandit@172.58.187.151) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:04:23	Mulugruntz	hmmm it seems my client fails to join #python-fr...
2021-05-26 08:04:42	kosh	that channel was destroyed
2021-05-26 08:04:49	<--	Mulugruntz (~Mulugrunt@2400:4152:2063:3100:9fd:cd2a:b38f:7241) has quit (Quit: Bye!)
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2021-05-26 08:05:10	Mulugruntz	nanii?
2021-05-26 08:05:21	<--	bsdbandit-01 (~bsdbandit@172.58.187.151) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 08:05:31	kosh	Mulugruntz, freenode destroyed that channel along with 700 or so others last night
2021-05-26 08:05:40	-->	serard (~serard@91-167-44-157.subs.proxad.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:05:44	PJBoy	when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail
2021-05-26 08:05:47	PJBoy	and when you're a freenode admin, everything looks like a libera migration threat
2021-05-26 08:05:56	Mulugruntz	oh, so it's recent. What's the rationale?
2021-05-26 08:06:12	cousteau	I'm impressed this channel hasn't gotten the hose yet
2021-05-26 08:06:14	PJBoy	censoring libera.chat
2021-05-26 08:06:16	<--	ralof (~ralof@dynamic-095-118-124-072.95.118.pool.telefonica.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:06:26	nedbat	Mulugruntz: new freenode mgmt are totalitarians.
2021-05-26 08:06:53	kosh	Mulugruntz, basically freenode has been taken over, all the old staff left and channels looking at leaving are being destroyed
2021-05-26 08:06:56	Mulugruntz	hmmm I see there https://www.afpy.org/irc#tchatpython that Libera.Chat thing. Gonna read about it. Never heard of it
2021-05-26 08:07:01	cousteau	Mulugruntz: how up to date are you with the events transcurred in the last week or so?
2021-05-26 08:07:20	-->	bsdbandit-01 (~bsdbandit@172.58.187.151) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:07:31	Mulugruntz	absolutely have no idea what happened last week XD
2021-05-26 08:07:47	Mulugruntz	new virus variant? :-P
2021-05-26 08:07:49	cousteau	Oh my God...
2021-05-26 08:08:03	kosh	Mulugruntz, and it looks like racism and other stuff is going to be a lot more common on freenode due to recent policy changes
2021-05-26 08:08:20	cousteau	No, Freenode was bought and the new management took over the network control
2021-05-26 08:08:21	<--	bsdbandit-01 (~bsdbandit@172.58.187.151) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 08:08:22	PJBoy	there's https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ if you want a slow read
2021-05-26 08:08:41	kosh	cousteau, it was bought years ago, the takeover was more recent
2021-05-26 08:08:57	<--	teut (ab3294f0@unaffiliated/teut) has quit (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 08:09:02	nedbat	Mulugruntz: join us on іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
2021-05-26 08:09:13	cousteau	The former staff resigned en masse and founded their own new network called Libera, where most channels are moving
2021-05-26 08:09:24	<--	debnet (sid330295@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpqontexairesodd) has quit
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2021-05-26 08:10:16	-->	iXNyNe (~iXNyNe@unaffiliated/ixnyne) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:10:17	cousteau	And now freenode is mass-blocking channels that mention the move to Libera in the topic, thus not allowing them to tell the users to move to the new network
2021-05-26 08:10:37	-->	m4r35n357 (~ian@88-110-254-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:11:20	Mathisen	freenode is not so free anymore
2021-05-26 08:11:26	PJBoy	indeed
2021-05-26 08:11:27	Mulugruntz	sounds pretty stupid. If they block the channel then users have no other choice *but* to migrate XD
2021-05-26 08:11:30	cousteau	I think that's the executive summary.  Details in links provided.
2021-05-26 08:11:55	kosh	Mulugruntz, before yesterday people where really not sure of who was right but the events last night pretty much sealed it
2021-05-26 08:12:09	cousteau	kosh: I mean, technically I didn't say anything wrong :P
2021-05-26 08:12:12	Wulf	https://freenode.net/  you should always see both sides. Clearly, "the plan to destroy freenode has failed" :-)
2021-05-26 08:12:19	PJBoy	seemed pretty overwhelmingly in favour of the volunteers I thought
2021-05-26 08:12:38	kosh	Mulugruntz, when they destroyed hundreds of channels it didn't leave any ambiguity left
2021-05-26 08:13:32	kosh	PJBoy, I agree it looked overwhelmingly in favor of the volunteers but we had not seen real evidence of abuse yet and they could have had another reason to want to split off
2021-05-26 08:13:45	kosh	PJBoy, however the actions last night removed any doubt at all
2021-05-26 08:13:57	PJBoy	yeah it's all moot after last night
2021-05-26 08:14:36	-->	hussam (~hussam@unaffiliated/hussam) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:14:38	cousteau	Wulf: lol
2021-05-26 08:14:41	Yhg1s	kosh: I had seen real evidence of abuse from one of the new opers, so, eh.
2021-05-26 08:14:42	<--	Hackerpcs (~user@unaffiliated/hackerpcs) has quit (Quit: Hackerpcs)
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2021-05-26 08:15:08	-->	Hackerpcs (~user@unaffiliated/hackerpcs) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:15:11	Wulf	cousteau: what, are you doubting the words of our beloved president?
2021-05-26 08:15:25	kosh	Yhg1s, I am not surprised, there is a reason I joined libera very quickly but there was some level of doubt
2021-05-26 08:15:33	cousteau	No no, of course not!
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2021-05-26 08:21:42	nowarning	is it ok to include some examples in a distributed package (via PyPI)? these examples would be installed in site-packages/ and I'm not sure if this would be appreciate or not
2021-05-26 08:22:12	-->	Muimi (~ReedK0@unaffiliated/reedk0) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:22:41	nedbat	nowarning: it might be difficult for your users to find them there, but I can't imagine they would mind.
2021-05-26 08:22:51	nedbat	nowarning: also, we are moving this channel to іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
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2021-05-26 08:26:23	bjs	Yhg1s: abuse?
2021-05-26 08:27:45	Yhg1s	bjs: were you around when Phanes/bagira was a problem on #python?
2021-05-26 08:27:50	<--	merijn (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 08:28:10	bjs	Yhg1s: I do not recall individual trolls,  I've been around ~6 years
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2021-05-26 08:28:23	Yhg1s	nowarning: I wouldn't install the examples there, certainly not as separate packages.
2021-05-26 08:28:39	<--	sileht (~sileht@gizmo.sileht.net) has left #python ("WeeChat 3.1")
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2021-05-26 08:29:08	webknjaz	@nowarning: you may want to prefix such a package with your project name or keep them under your package dir, otherwise, expect special effects when two different packages bundle a package called "examples"
2021-05-26 08:29:10	Yhg1s	bjs: that went down before you joined then.
2021-05-26 08:29:33	bjs	Yhg1s: and you remember for so long? I dread to think what happened
2021-05-26 08:29:54	-->	CobraKai (uid144971@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifykedghkqizigdb) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:30:11	Yhg1s	bjs: it was a problem for several years, and the PSF board of directors got involved.
2021-05-26 08:30:27	kosh	I wonder how I forgot it then
2021-05-26 08:30:40	-->	crippa (a03e0464@160.62.4.100) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:30:59	Yhg1s	multiple escalating bans, ban evasion, harassment, more ban evasion, escalation, more harassment, more ban evasion...
2021-05-26 08:31:03	-->	Peyam (8a6a3983@138.106.57.131) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:31:10	Peyam	hi pythonians
2021-05-26 08:31:43	<--	Laibsch (~Laibsch@2a01:c23:68a7:f600:f4a7:4da0:e828:cbaf) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:31:44	PJBoy	I've been lurking on python for at least 10 years and I never saw that >_>
2021-05-26 08:31:46	<--	kabooHD (~Thunderbi@eth-west-pareq2-46-193-1-54.wb.wifirst.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:31:53	<--	unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 08:31:54	Yhg1s	I guess we're doing our jobs :)
2021-05-26 08:32:01	kosh	Peyam, everything is moving to libera.chat
2021-05-26 08:32:02	nedbat	(was about to say the same)
2021-05-26 08:32:11	PJBoy	props to you guys
2021-05-26 08:32:14	Peyam	kosh? what?
2021-05-26 08:32:29	bjs	Peyam: people who usually answer your questions are on irc.libera.chat on #python there now
2021-05-26 08:32:32	kosh	so it is like thinking the people maintaining your servers arn't diong anything so you fire them and promptly the servers burn to the ground
2021-05-26 08:32:40	bjs	Peyam: some may still be here, but people have moved over
2021-05-26 08:32:49	Peyam	why?
2021-05-26 08:32:53	kosh	Peyam, most channels are moving over or have moved already
2021-05-26 08:32:58	-->	kixx (~kixx@2a02:2f09:341d:a000:b5d1:ecb8:5c13:7973) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:33:03	Peyam	from freenode?
2021-05-26 08:33:07	Peyam	why?
2021-05-26 08:33:07	kosh	Peyam, yes
2021-05-26 08:33:18	<--	urth (~urth@geertswei.nl) has quit (Quit: urth)
2021-05-26 08:33:21	-->	guriya (a0ee4ab8@unaffiliated/guriya) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:33:25	kosh	freenode has had a hostile takeover, the old staff all left, over 700 channels where destroyed yesterday
2021-05-26 08:33:28	PJBoy	in fact, neither of those nicks appear in my logs
2021-05-26 08:34:15	nowarning	Yhg1s, nedbat: where would you install them instead?
2021-05-26 08:34:16	Peyam	ohh really?
2021-05-26 08:34:18	Yhg1s	PJBoy: there were several dozen other nicks.
2021-05-26 08:34:30	Yhg1s	nowarning: I wouldn't install them at all. Why would they need to be installed if they're examples?
2021-05-26 08:34:42	Peyam	who did it? was it Isis?
2021-05-26 08:34:43	kosh	Peyam, the details are more complicated but the practical result is pretty much everyone is leaving
2021-05-26 08:34:44	nowarning	webknjaz: good point!
2021-05-26 08:34:52	<--	krrish_dhaneja (~krrish_dh@59.98.195.227) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:34:55	<--	legola (~legola@unaffiliated/legola) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 08:35:00	Peyam	so I need to make an acound on libre?
2021-05-26 08:35:09	kosh	libera
2021-05-26 08:35:11	bjs	Peyam: all the previous staff, and many of the communities (including this one) has moved to irc.libera.chat
2021-05-26 08:35:12	nowarning	Yhg1s: yeah, I also consider this option
2021-05-26 08:35:25	bjs	Peyam: yes,  you need to join that server, and register Peyam then join #python there
2021-05-26 08:35:34	-->	stockholm (~Andreas@p200300d2c7091400bd52502f62714556.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:35:35	-->	urth (~urth@geertswei.nl) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:35:41	bjs	Peyam: there's sadly no good reason why this has happened :(
2021-05-26 08:35:48	nedbat	perhaps we need a channel-moving faq somewhere.
2021-05-26 08:35:54	<--	Peyam (8a6a3983@138.106.57.131) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 08:35:55	kosh	probably
2021-05-26 08:36:06	-->	vsantana (~vsantana@177.107.244.178) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:36:27	kosh	honestly if freenode had not just started destroying channels I doubt so many would fleeing so quickly
2021-05-26 08:36:29	-->	zebrag (~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-3-253.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:36:53	<--	javi404 (~quassel@unaffiliated/javi404) has quit (Quit: javi404)
2021-05-26 08:37:04	bjs	kosh: they destroyed the channel that made me join freenode. An on-topic project channel that while small had been around for >10 years
2021-05-26 08:37:14	bjs	overnight, without warning, while all the members, Founders and ops were asleep
2021-05-26 08:37:19	kosh	yes
2021-05-26 08:37:22	guriya	10 years back a op banned my friend.He wasvery determined who made lot of money bought freenode and kicked all ops
2021-05-26 08:37:57	<--	maedox (sid2021@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuhfwkkxmtbvliqx) has quit
2021-05-26 08:38:44	webknjaz	@nedbat: like https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Migrating_to_Libera_Chat ?
2021-05-26 08:39:01	<--	stormkl (~stormkl@176.236.125.242) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 08:39:04	-->	javi404 (~quassel@unaffiliated/javi404) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:40:41	nowarning	trying to connect to libera.chat i got operation timeout. is it 6667 port?
2021-05-26 08:40:51	Nei	nowarning: IRC.libera.chat
2021-05-26 08:41:35	nowarning	Nei: thx
2021-05-26 08:42:12	nowarning	anyway, is there any good thread to read about the changes? i mean, i've been on freenode from the beginning, not often but i really like it
2021-05-26 08:43:02	<--	tos9 (~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:43:46	--	dTalibera is now known as dTarebil
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2021-05-26 08:44:10	CrtxReavr	nowarning, libera.chat is a website with info on how to connect your client with an encrypted connection, etc.
2021-05-26 08:44:24	<--	zebrag (~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-3-253.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-26 08:44:40	CrtxReavr	But yes, the sever cluster alias is irc.libera.chat.
2021-05-26 08:44:48	-->	zebrag (~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-3-253.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:45:55	NoImNotNineVolt	oh, so libera.chat:6666 won't work?
2021-05-26 08:45:59	NoImNotNineVolt	that explains why i can't connect :P
2021-05-26 08:46:04	<--	lxdr (~lxdr@51.15.4.54) has left #python ("Bye")
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2021-05-26 08:46:56	cousteau	Can't the irc.-less site just redirect the ports or something?  (is IRC server redirection a thing?)
2021-05-26 08:47:21	-->	Laibsch (~Laibsch@dynamic-093-135-104-239.93.135.pool.telefonica.de) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 08:47:56	CrtxReavr	Sure. . . but that's not really a web server's job.
2021-05-26 08:48:14	-->	Mechanismus (~LabMonkey@2602:306:cf62:e270:17a:fd20:e795:5c6a) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:48:16	grawity	it's not really a widely-implemented thing, on top of that
2021-05-26 08:48:26	<--	indy (~indy@dsl-static-104.213-160-167.telecom.sk) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:48:30	grawity	unless you expect the webserver to actually proxy/relay all data, which, just no
2021-05-26 08:48:44	CrtxReavr	Yeah, horrible idea.
2021-05-26 08:48:55	-->	twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@107.13.62.21) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:49:04	CrtxReavr	Gets more horrible, the more I think about it.
2021-05-26 08:49:04	NoImNotNineVolt	nginx can do tcp proxy and it's fine.
2021-05-26 08:49:19	-->	unluckyshrubbery (~unluckysh@unaffiliated/unluckyshrubbery) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:49:22	grawity	Not The Web Server's Bloody Job™
2021-05-26 08:49:33	CrtxReavr	You want 100s of 1000s of idle traffic proxying through your web server?
2021-05-26 08:49:35	grawity	what I'd prefer to see is more DNS SRV support, in IRC and overall
2021-05-26 08:49:53	<--	whaley (~whaley@066-169-090-170.res.spectrum.com) has quit (Quit: ¡siesta!)
2021-05-26 08:49:54	grawity	if minecraft can do it, so can irssi etc
2021-05-26 08:50:10	-->	cow[moo] (~asanger@c-69-244-155-110.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:50:12	NoImNotNineVolt	minecraft is a few decades newer  :P
2021-05-26 08:50:13	CrtxReavr	Minecraft has a single well-known port.
2021-05-26 08:50:23	<--	lnxd (~lnxd@202-65-89-209.ip4.superloop.com) has quit (Quit: lnxd)
2021-05-26 08:50:27	<--	cow[moo] (~asanger@c-69-244-155-110.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 08:50:29	CrtxReavr	IRC does not.
2021-05-26 08:50:30	-->	totalsecond (~totalseco@totalsecond.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:50:50	greyblue9	6697
2021-05-26 08:50:50	grawity	IRC does, but that only serves in favor of SRV, not against
2021-05-26 08:50:59	greyblue9	if its ssl
2021-05-26 08:51:00	<--	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:51:14	<--	J_Money (~totalseco@2001:19f0:5c01:1cfe:8de9:1c0f:3cce:c839) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:51:15	CrtxReavr	tcp46      0      0 *.minecraft            *.*                    LISTEN
2021-05-26 08:51:18	<--	infina (~infina@unaffiliated/infina) has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2021-05-26 08:51:23	grawity	there is literally an IETF RFC that defines 6697 as the "single well-known port" for IRCS
2021-05-26 08:51:39	<--	ekleog_ (~ii@prologin/ekleog) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 08:51:39	CrtxReavr	(Only shows up that way, 'cause I added it to /etc/services.)
2021-05-26 08:51:39	-->	infina (~infina@unaffiliated/infina) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:51:40	grawity	though the point isn't so much ports as hosts
2021-05-26 08:52:34	<--	legreffier (~fuzzy@ubuntu/member/legreffier) has quit (Quit: Changing server)
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2021-05-26 08:55:49	cousteau	CrtxReavr: I meant "redirect" as in "301 moved permanently", not as in "tunnel all the connections there"
2021-05-26 08:56:00	<--	henninb (~henninb@63-226-165-91.mpls.qwest.net) has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2021-05-26 08:56:17	Korolyzer	301 is an http message, nothing to do with irc and a irc client would not know what to do with it..
2021-05-26 08:56:27	<--	Laibsch (~Laibsch@dynamic-093-135-104-239.93.135.pool.telefonica.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:56:32	CrtxReavr	301 is a http concept.
2021-05-26 08:56:44	cousteau	Maybe there was a similar one in IRC
2021-05-26 08:57:10	CrtxReavr	IRC pre-dates HTTP.
2021-05-26 08:57:42	-->	Iroha (~Dykomii@2607:5300:60:336a::1) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:57:56	cousteau	Also I believe multiple domain names can refer to the same IP/machine.  But I don't think it goes down to the port level
2021-05-26 08:57:59	Yhg1s	cousteau: I'm sure the libera staff would be happy to discuss this with you.
2021-05-26 08:58:07	cousteau	Yeah sorry
2021-05-26 08:58:11	CrtxReavr	(Which is know is a concept that warps so many minds.)
2021-05-26 08:58:57	<--	l1x (uid1954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ategrklichdgtoof) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2021-05-26 08:59:10	guriya	This channel should somewhere mention about moving and libera and stop promoting it...If I do samething to my own network I could have got benned by now
2021-05-26 08:59:38	-->	hiroaki (~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:ba76:a6ab:ef98:999e) has joined #python
2021-05-26 08:59:39	guriya	I may move to libera when all moves though
2021-05-26 09:00:18	CrtxReavr	guriya, putting that in the topic would invite its premature end.
2021-05-26 09:00:34	kosh	guriya, if we put that in the topic the channel will be destroyed very quickly
2021-05-26 09:00:42	CrtxReavr	guriya, read the topic in #freenode
2021-05-26 09:00:48	kosh	guriya, other channels tried to do that, 700 where destroyed last night
2021-05-26 09:00:54	nedbat	guriya: https://www.pound-python.org/
2021-05-26 09:01:58	guriya	nedbat you are right that url in topic should be enough and nothing more
2021-05-26 09:02:04	cousteau	It does say "channels exist"... I'm impressed this channel has survived even so
2021-05-26 09:03:07	 *	CrtxReavr wonders what those lost unicode characters are. . . my font doesn't support them.
2021-05-26 09:03:31	<--	wyre (~wyre@unaffiliated/wyre) has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 09:03:34	grawity	put it in chanserv entrymsg >_>
2021-05-26 09:03:47	-->	bsdbandit-01 (~bsdbandit@2607:fb90:a947:34eb:f111:eeb1:d9b6:6106) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 09:04:02	CrtxReavr	What's also funny is that ##freenode exists on Libera.
2021-05-26 09:04:02	cousteau	CrtxReavr: Which ones?
2021-05-26 09:04:08	Yhg1s	Well, speak of the devil, https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1397384190644002818
2021-05-26 09:04:17	CrtxReavr	``Lіbеrа channels exist``
2021-05-26 09:04:39	nedbat	CrtxReavr: sorry, i used homographs to sneak under the radar
2021-05-26 09:04:48	-->	Ninpo (~Ninpo@fsf/member/Ninpo) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 09:05:11	bjs	nedbat: to be honest, it's probably against the current "policy"
2021-05-26 09:05:15	cousteau	Oh
2021-05-26 09:05:30	bjs	as far as such a policy is actually a concrete thing and not just something in the current staff's head
2021-05-26 09:05:36	cousteau	Oooh, sneaky.  Didn't even notice
2021-05-26 09:05:38	CrtxReavr	nedbat, it's fine. . . I'm used to my terminal/font config dropping certain characters.
2021-05-26 09:06:11	-->	iXNyNe (~iXNyNe@unaffiliated/ixnyne) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:06:29	cousteau	nedbat: I've done that before.  Impressively executed.  Didn't notice those were non ASCII
2021-05-26 09:06:30	-->	The-Compiler (~compiler@qutebrowser/dev/The-Compiler) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:06:43	iXNyNe	just popped in to say the topic is clever as hell and made me lol
2021-05-26 09:06:56	CrtxReavr	Typography nerds. . .
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2021-05-26 09:08:21	cousteau	iXNyNe: I didn't even notice the cleverness
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2021-05-26 09:08:33	nowarning	CrtxReavr: what am i missing? https://bpa.st/4LSA
2021-05-26 09:08:35	cousteau	Now my mind is blown
2021-05-26 09:08:36	nedbat	CrtxReavr: and proudly so! :)  I wanted to do a PyCon lightning talk called "Words Gutenberg Taught Us"
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2021-05-26 09:08:41	bjs	nedbat: the message that #haskell got was "The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies"  but to be honest, I'm not even sure what part of the policy they're pointing at
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2021-05-26 09:09:52	CrtxReavr	bjs, ostensibly, they're being picky about "unofffical" single-# channels. .. but it reality, it's about channels that mention "libera" in the topic.
2021-05-26 09:09:59	bjs	ironically it happened just after edward kmett was asking "which channels [are being deleted]?" heh
2021-05-26 09:09:59	kosh	Yhg1s, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZLJpMOxS4   here is the video that goes with that link ;)
2021-05-26 09:10:27	stealth_	whats up with this Libera thing?
2021-05-26 09:10:29	kosh	bjs, the one they just created
2021-05-26 09:10:40	<--	jjhoo (jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi) has quit (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 09:10:44	CrtxReavr	nedbat, tell us how you feel about two spaces after a period.
2021-05-26 09:10:57	-->	jjhoo (~jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:11:00	nedbat	CrtxReavr: in favor
2021-05-26 09:11:23	CrtxReavr	Really?  That's an un-popular take in typography circles.
2021-05-26 09:11:25	-->	sagax (~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:11:36	kosh	I prefer to let the word processor handle it
2021-05-26 09:11:36	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@unaffiliated/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:11:44	bjs	CrtxReavr: if haskell wasn't on-topic then I don't know what is.
2021-05-26 09:11:46	nedbat	CrtxReavr: that's ok with me.  but now we are truly off-topic :)
2021-05-26 09:11:52	kosh	since it can use more complex typographic rules
2021-05-26 09:11:57	<--	zebrag (~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-3-253.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-26 09:11:57	bjs	CrtxReavr: and if haskell wasn't on-topic then python isn't either
2021-05-26 09:12:03	bjs	so this channel is on borrowed time on this network
2021-05-26 09:12:03	nedbat	i for one welcome our new ant overlords
2021-05-26 09:12:07	NoImNotNineVolt	you prefer two spaces over an en space U+2002 or an em space U+2003?
2021-05-26 09:12:45	stealth_	how can python not be on topic in a python channel?
2021-05-26 09:12:46	NoImNotNineVolt	that's surprising.
2021-05-26 09:12:51	cousteau	Two spaces will use less memory if encoded in UTF-8
2021-05-26 09:12:55	 *	CrtxReavr shrugs.  ASCII has been adequate for 99.9% of my computing needs.
2021-05-26 09:13:02	nedbat	stealth_: python is on-topic
2021-05-26 09:13:14	NoImNotNineVolt	cousteau: that's impressive.
2021-05-26 09:13:15	<--	raek (~raek@2001:9b1:efe:3200:d250:99ff:fec0:e153) has quit (Quit: See you at Libera)
2021-05-26 09:13:18	stealth_	nedbat, i been out of loop, whats going on?
2021-05-26 09:13:22	-->	Xaldafax (~Xaldafax@cpe-198-72-160-101.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:13:22	iXNyNe	stealth_ fn is considering channels that mention libera in their topic to be off-topic for the fn network
2021-05-26 09:13:24	 *	CrtxReavr shrugs.  ASCII has been adequate for 99.9% of my computing needs in python.
2021-05-26 09:13:39	bjs	stealth_: all the old staff and communities have moved over to irc.libera.chat
2021-05-26 09:13:57	gcbirzan	Not offtopic, actually. Offtopic in freenode speak means not allowed.
2021-05-26 09:13:57	bjs	stealth_: including #python
2021-05-26 09:14:02	-->	jarthur (~jarthur@2603-8080-1540-002d-6da3-d8d5-fc5c-861b.res6.spectrum.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:14:10	CrtxReavr	Well, not all, but I think the tide is rising fast.
2021-05-26 09:14:13	cousteau	NoImNotNineVolt: then again, they're semantically different and in certain contexts they might be collapsed on a single one
2021-05-26 09:14:18	stealth_	bjs, any main reason why? other then not to mention competition name?
2021-05-26 09:14:57	bjs	stealth_: the freenode staff all left to make their own network, called libera. The people left in charge of freenode aren't making a good impression
2021-05-26 09:15:10	nedbat	stealth_: https://www.pound-python.org/
2021-05-26 09:15:17	iXNyNe	stealth_ there was some kind of disagreement between the staff and network operators of freenode recently. the result is a net irc network and most of the fn staff leaving fn. in reaction the new fn staff/owner have been seemingly agressive about channels mentioning or considering moving to the new network
2021-05-26 09:15:22	kosh	by not making a good impression you can imagine sideshow bob stepping on rakes
2021-05-26 09:15:31	-->	purplex_ (~purplex@unaffiliated/purplex88) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:15:34	bjs	stealth_: and last night they nuked a bunch of channels, including #haskell
2021-05-26 09:15:41	cousteau	Grmblmblblmbl
2021-05-26 09:15:42	bjs	for mentioning libera in their /TOPIC
2021-05-26 09:15:47	-->	phasetwo (~phasetwo@2601:602:8d80:4e50:f190:47c3:fb0c:6d7) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:15:54	nowarning	no libera for me :(
2021-05-26 09:16:02	bjs	nowarning: why :(
2021-05-26 09:16:07	iXNyNe	i don't have all the details, that's just my understanding of the situation, and even while trying to look at it objectively, the channel take overs seem pretty extreme
2021-05-26 09:16:12	nowarning	bjs: https://bpa.st/4LSA
2021-05-26 09:16:23	gcbirzan	nowarning: You need to use SSL
2021-05-26 09:16:32	<--	DAIBUTSU (~DHARMAKAY@189.174.214.152) has quit (Quit: Turning off a portion of this simulation.)
2021-05-26 09:16:39	-->	irrgit (~ch33se@192.241.175.183) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:16:40	bjs	nowarning: 6697 is the TLS port, so you need to be using SSL/TLS to do that
2021-05-26 09:16:44	-->	Laibsch (~Laibsch@dynamic-078-049-171-165.78.49.pool.telefonica.de) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:16:50	gcbirzan	/connect -tls irc.libera.chat 6697
2021-05-26 09:17:26	nowarning	bjs: ah, yeah, i thought TLS is a default option
2021-05-26 09:17:28	nowarning	thx
2021-05-26 09:17:39	<--	kas50 (~ksa50@2a01:118f:822:9c00:2132:cd52:1e4a:f46a) has quit (Quit: #linux)
2021-05-26 09:17:58	-->	kas50 (~ksa50@2a01:118f:822:9c00:2132:cd52:1e4a:f46a) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:18:30	<--	purplex (~purplex@unaffiliated/purplex88) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:18:40	--	purplex_ is now known as purplex
2021-05-26 09:18:49	bjs	iXNyNe: given #haskell was taken over, and is a similarly organized and structured programming language, with a similar community that was also considered "on-topic"
2021-05-26 09:19:02	bjs	it's very likely this channel is going to go as well, if they're anything like consistent about applying their policies
2021-05-26 09:19:15	stealth_	bjs,  whole channel! that seems extreme
2021-05-26 09:19:34	bjs	stealth_: kline did some matching and thinks >700 channels were hit by the bot last night
2021-05-26 09:19:35	gcbirzan	bjs: I'm slightly amused at the fact that they just did it for libera.chat, and not for libera in general
2021-05-26 09:19:45	iXNyNe	i'm guessing at the moment fn staff are just doing searches for mention of the new network in channel topics
2021-05-26 09:19:52	<--	is_null (~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 09:20:01	nedbat	stealth_: tl;dr: it's all very extreme.  that's why we're moving
2021-05-26 09:20:10	bjs	iXNyNe: it was a bot, they ran it last night.  It clearly had some kind of very dumb regex in it
2021-05-26 09:20:17	bjs	and it hit hundreds of channels over a short span of time
2021-05-26 09:20:27	cousteau	gcbirzan: no, the thing is that nedbat was very sneaky
2021-05-26 09:20:32	iXNyNe	 #python might fly under the radar until a human reviews and makes a decision
2021-05-26 09:20:45	bjs	iXNyNe: it's flying under the radar because of nedbat's quick thinking
2021-05-26 09:20:47	bjs	but that's it :P
2021-05-26 09:21:22	-->	is_null (~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:21:22	--	Mode #python [+o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 09:21:23	--	nedbat has changed topic for #python from "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Lіbеrа channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops" to "Anything Python is on-topic. | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Lіbеrа channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-05-26 09:21:24	-->	useful_idiot (useful_idi@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/usefulidiot/x-43226899) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:21:27	iXNyNe	quite a power-move on his part
2021-05-26 09:21:32	--	Mode #python [-o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 09:21:34	-->	cow[moo] (~asanger@c-69-244-155-110.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:21:39	<--	CrowX- (~CrowX-@185.167.46.134) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-26 09:21:59	bjs	I think it's a bit too risky if we want to keep the channel around :)
2021-05-26 09:22:08	bjs	but maybe it getting nuked would make things easier
2021-05-26 09:22:09	guriya	no #python then no freenode period
2021-05-26 09:22:10	cousteau	OH NOO- wait, I thought that was the staff taking over
2021-05-26 09:22:14	-->	CrowX- (~CrowX-@185.167.46.134) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:22:21	rendar	who registered this channel for the first time? nedbat?
2021-05-26 09:22:22	-->	xsperry (~as@unaffiliated/xsperry) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:22:37	bjs	rendar: Yhg1s is the Founder according to ChanServ. But you can transfer Founder status
2021-05-26 09:22:43	rendar	i see
2021-05-26 09:22:46	-->	subho (subho@fedora/subho) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:23:01	guriya	can I get founder status if every ops moving?
2021-05-26 09:23:08	<--	n00b101 (uid448161@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aeitokgiitiaajql) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 09:23:21	-->	ozzzo (~ozzzo@160.152.231.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:23:25	Korolyzer	/leave
2021-05-26 09:23:31	<--	Korolyzer (tmottabrma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ksphpzfxntdhlsoy) has left #python ("User left")
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2021-05-26 09:23:48	cousteau	Hm what happens if I register the double pound channel
2021-05-26 09:24:10	bjs	guriya: if they his this channel too, being a founder won't mean much.  Founders of the other channels can't touch the channels they're a founder of and have no rights in the channels they were shoved into.
2021-05-26 09:24:15	-->	yaypixxo (yaypixxo@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fe98:8d0e) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:24:28	bjs	if there was a way to do it, the way it was done was not it.
2021-05-26 09:24:34	-->	fizzizist (~Thunderbi@108.162.133.99) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:24:37	Yhg1s	guriya: no, by Freenode policy, under trademark law and all, #python is the PSF's to manage. You can have ##python though.
2021-05-26 09:25:09	<--	Ox4- (~int@unaffiliated/zloy) has quit (Quit: see you :))
2021-05-26 09:25:15	-->	pi- (~Ohmu@node-l7h.pool-1-2.dynamic.totinternet.net) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:25:19	<--	bencevans (~bencevans@unaffiliated/bencevans) has quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-05-26 09:25:19	<--	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 09:25:21	nedbat	(but there's enough splintering as it is, so maybe don't :)  )
2021-05-26 09:25:24	guriya	hmmm thanks bjs   Yhg1s
2021-05-26 09:25:38	bjs	Yhg1s: are you the original founder of this channel
2021-05-26 09:25:49	habnabit_	bjs, technically no
2021-05-26 09:25:52	ELFrederich	is there something in standard library that can take a URL and break it up into parts.  For instance foobar://spam/eggs I need to the the "scheme" as foobar
2021-05-26 09:25:57	habnabit_	i think it was jerub or glyph
2021-05-26 09:25:57	bjs	habnabit_: technically?
2021-05-26 09:25:58	Yhg1s	bjs: god no.
2021-05-26 09:26:06	Yhg1s	probably glyph.
2021-05-26 09:26:19	habnabit_	ELFrederich, urllib.parse
2021-05-26 09:26:21	-->	bjelleklang (~c@wikipedia/Bjelleklang) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:26:26	cousteau	That's something I was wondering.  Why would #python be a trademark but not ##python?
2021-05-26 09:26:36	gcbirzan	That's a freenode policy.
2021-05-26 09:26:38	bjs	cousteau: freenode policy
2021-05-26 09:26:43	bjs	as it stands for now
2021-05-26 09:26:47	-->	Ox4 (~int@unaffiliated/zloy) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:27:02	stealth_	do you have to create a new account of use current one?
2021-05-26 09:27:09	bjs	stealth_: on libera ?
2021-05-26 09:27:12	gcbirzan	stealth_: You have to create a new one.
2021-05-26 09:27:16	bjs	stealth_: it's a whole new network, you need to sign up like new
2021-05-26 09:27:19	MrElendig	stealth_: different network, different account
2021-05-26 09:27:26	cousteau	I mean, legally it's probably still a trademark violation
2021-05-26 09:27:27	bjs	stealth_: and register and then join the #python that is there.
2021-05-26 09:27:28	stealth_	k thanks
2021-05-26 09:27:42	habnabit_	cousteau, the PSF says it's official, so it's official
2021-05-26 09:28:02	pi-	How to sort a list of 2-element by numeric value of first element? e.g. `[ ['2.3', 'foo'], ['1.2', 'bar'], ['666', 'quux'] ] -> [ ['1.2', 'bar'], ['2.3', 'foo'], ['666', 'quux'] ]
2021-05-26 09:28:38	grawity	sort(key=lambda x: float(x[0]))
2021-05-26 09:28:38	habnabit_	pi-, yourlist.sort(key=lambda t: float(t[0]))
2021-05-26 09:29:06	cousteau	You're gonna need sorted() with a custom key= lambda
2021-05-26 09:29:06	pi-	Awesome, thanks!
2021-05-26 09:29:11	-->	tiin57 (~tiin57@ec2-3-94-63-186.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:29:14	grawity	though maybe (float(x[0]), x[1]) if you want to also sort ["2.3", "abc"] before ["2.3", "def"]
2021-05-26 09:29:37	cousteau	Or .sort if you want to sort in place
2021-05-26 09:29:47	grawity	also I'm slightly unsure about float() precision but I guess it's going to be fine here
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2021-05-26 09:30:00	habnabit_	equality on floats is going to produce some weird results yes
2021-05-26 09:30:04	grawity	there are probably python modules to do natural sorting of strings, that you could stick into key= the same way here
2021-05-26 09:30:10	-->	GiLgAmEzH (~gilgamezh@unaffiliated/gilgamezh) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:30:12	habnabit_	but as long as they're sufficiently spaced out, floats are fine
2021-05-26 09:30:27	-->	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has joined #python
2021-05-26 09:30:29	cousteau	grawity: should sort "2.3" same as "2.3" in any case
2021-05-26 09:31:16	Yhg1s	cousteau: it's not actually a trademark violation, because it's perfectly fair use of the mark. It's just freenode *policy*, because they wanted an external authority to make decisions about who should own what channel easier.
2021-05-26 09:31:17	 *	grawity thinks about key=lambda x: map(int, x[0].split("."))
2021-05-26 09:31:27	cousteau	float("2.3") is never gonna be exactly 2.3, but it's always gonna be exactly the same
2021-05-26 09:31:28	Yhg1s	the new freenode admins clearly don't care about external authority.
2021-05-26 09:31:37	bjs	Yhg1s: do you have faith in their policies going forward though?
2021-05-26 09:31:45	<--	fizzizist (~Thunderbi@108.162.133.99) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-26 09:31:56	cousteau	grawity: ugh
2021-05-26 09:31:57	Yhg1s	bjs: freenode? I don't even have faith in their current policies.
2021-05-26 09:32:00	pi-	I don't need to launch a spaceship on it ;)
2021-05-26 09:32:11	cousteau	1.9 < 1.12 now?
2021-05-26 09:32:15	Yhg1s	(which is why people really, really should move to libera.chat)
2021-05-26 09:32:17	grawity	oh right d'oh
2021-05-26 09:32:29	cousteau	Then again... Are we talking floats or version numbers?
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2021-05-26 09:33:12	habnabit_	grawity, having a map object is probably not what you meant
2021-05-26 09:33:19	cousteau	I mean grawity's approach would be perfect for version strings
2021-05-26 09:33:22	habnabit_	grawity, a list comprehension would make it easier
2021-05-26 09:33:22	bjs	Yhg1s: are you going to try enforce it, or is this channel just always going to be split here too now?
2021-05-26 09:33:31	Yhg1s	dunno yet.
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2021-05-26 09:33:56	Yhg1s	I will remind people to move to libera.chat as long as I'm in here, though.
2021-05-26 09:34:02	bjs	it's very on-brand for Python to split communites between the old and new though ;)
2021-05-26 09:34:03	no_maam	Hi, I'm trying to write a program that uses argparse and there are some arguments that are only valid when another argument is given. For example I might have an argument like: --output-format-excel and only when this argument is passed to the program, the arguments --excel-font-size and --excel-font-name are valid. Should someone use those arguments without --output--format-excel, the argument parsing should
2021-05-26 09:34:06	no_maam	fail. Can I do that with argparse?
2021-05-26 09:34:08	<--	gareppa (~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-05-26 09:34:11	gordonjcp	bjs: :-D
2021-05-26 09:34:13	Yhg1s	I expect at some point freenode admins will make me not be in here, so who knows.
2021-05-26 09:34:20	guriya	bjs lol
2021-05-26 09:34:25	gordonjcp	just keep freenode #python for Python 2
2021-05-26 09:34:37	rendar	lol
2021-05-26 09:34:39	bjs	Yhg1s: #haskell getting the boot i think is very indicative that their policy intends here to as well
2021-05-26 09:34:42	<--	dTarebil (quassel@dragonbox/users/dtal) has quit (Changing host)
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2021-05-26 09:34:49	bjs	Yhg1s: unless you mean *you* specifically?
2021-05-26 09:34:53	cousteau	no_maam: as a last resort, you can always check that outside of argparse
2021-05-26 09:34:57	bjs	as opposed to just #python in general
2021-05-26 09:34:57	gordonjcp	Yhg1s: the 4chan clowns?
2021-05-26 09:34:57	Yhg1s	Yeah, they're absolute idiots. The question is whether they realise how wrong they are before they get to #python :)
2021-05-26 09:35:10	Yhg1s	bjs: I did mean me, specifically, yes.
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2021-05-26 09:35:13	kosh	bjs, why should anyone have faith in their policies when they do something and change policies after the fact?
2021-05-26 09:35:19	cousteau	gordonjcp: ok that's evil, I like it
2021-05-26 09:35:22	<--	subho (subho@fedora/subho) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:35:24	bjs	kosh: nobody should
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2021-05-26 09:35:41	no_maam	cousteau: Yes of course, it would just be great when I could model those dependencies with argparse, maybe with subparsers or so.
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2021-05-26 09:36:33	cousteau	argparse is rather complex and what you ask seems common enough, so it is possible that it has a way to do it
2021-05-26 09:36:44	no_maam	cousteau: At least this way, the solution would be most beautiful.
2021-05-26 09:36:48	bjs	kosh: the brutal way other similar channels were just crushed is very indicative of what could happen here at any moment
2021-05-26 09:36:50	<--	iXNyNe (~iXNyNe@unaffiliated/ixnyne) has left #python
2021-05-26 09:37:05	cousteau	Yeah, more meaningful
2021-05-26 09:37:21	cousteau	But maybe less obvious
2021-05-26 09:37:21	<--	Ox4 (~int@unaffiliated/zloy) has quit (Quit: see you :))
2021-05-26 09:37:31	kosh	bjs, yes it is a sword of damacles
2021-05-26 09:37:54	cousteau	And Python's mantra is that "there should only be one obvious way to do it"
2021-05-26 09:38:05	cousteau	Or something like that
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2021-05-26 09:38:43	cousteau	kosh: exactly what I was going T say
2021-05-26 09:38:44	wyoung	Can't you be in both servers?
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2021-05-26 09:39:05	bjs	wyoung: yes,  a lot of us are in both #python 's right now
2021-05-26 09:39:07	cousteau	Except I think it's spelled "damocles", but I'm not sure honestly
2021-05-26 09:39:07	Yhg1s	wyoung: many people are. you're better off not being on freenode at all, though.
2021-05-26 09:39:14	bjs	but this one is doomed and everyone is moving
2021-05-26 09:39:45	cousteau	wyoung: in principle yes, but mentioning that you're on the other network now constitutes a policy violation
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2021-05-26 09:40:05	bjs	cousteau: only advertising other networks in the /topic does, or something. It's not very clear
2021-05-26 09:40:07	wyoung	cousteau: That's just stupid
2021-05-26 09:40:08	bjs	or consistently applied
2021-05-26 09:40:15	kosh	when did that policy change anyways?
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2021-05-26 09:40:36	Yhg1s	kosh: some time after they claimed the first channels using that reasoning.
2021-05-26 09:40:42	cousteau	wyoung: I sure don't discuss that
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2021-05-26 09:40:56	Yhg1s	wyoung: yes, freenode is currently very stupid.
2021-05-26 09:40:58	GreenBean	freenode is no longer FOSS
2021-05-26 09:41:01	GreenBean	plain and simple
2021-05-26 09:41:17	kosh	Yhg1s, that is what I thought, I am pretty sure that two weeks ago that was not against any policy
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2021-05-26 09:41:38	kosh	Yhg1s, and I am pretty sure I have seen links to discord, slack etc in topics before and they are certainly other networks
2021-05-26 09:41:47	Yhg1s	It was not against any policy until after admins realised they couldn't do what they wanted to do under the old policies.
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2021-05-26 09:42:08	Yhg1s	or rather, could not do what they had already done.
2021-05-26 09:42:10	bjs	kosh: the new staff invented a new policy and used it to justify booting of channels that redirected people to libera.chat
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2021-05-26 09:42:30	kosh	that is what I thought I just know that I did not read all the policies before
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2021-05-26 09:42:51	kosh	actually I was not even aware of most of the freenode policies because if you where not an ahole you pretty much never ran into any of them
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2021-05-26 09:43:07	kosh	which is generally a sign of good rules
2021-05-26 09:43:09	cousteau	I have to say that yesterday I wasn't sure if they really were evil or that was just one biased side of the discussion
2021-05-26 09:43:17	wyoung	Well thanks for clearing that up for me all!
2021-05-26 09:43:43	cousteau	Not today though
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2021-05-26 09:44:12	habnabit_	cousteau, otoh if it's a choice between 'the new administration is cartoonishly evil' and '.. is blandly evil', does it really matter
2021-05-26 09:44:13	kosh	cousteau, yup they really worked to prove it
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2021-05-26 09:45:16	cousteau	habnabit_: "might have views that differ from mine, and plans I don't agree with" != "evil"
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2021-05-26 09:46:10	cousteau	"forbidding freedom of speech and effectively sequestering/stealing channels / locking them into freenode", otoh...
2021-05-26 09:46:15	kosh	cousteau, I have to admit it was really concerning to me when they removed most of the restrictions against hate speech
2021-05-26 09:46:35	kosh	so you have freedom of speech to spread hate and other stuff just don't talk about other networks
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2021-05-26 09:46:58	stealth_	i don't see #python on that new network
2021-05-26 09:47:01	kosh	reminds me of politicians saying companies should have rights to say anything they want except when those companies criticize them
2021-05-26 09:47:05	habnabit_	stealth_, i'm in it
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2021-05-26 09:47:32	kosh	so are 600 other people
2021-05-26 09:47:44	Celelibi	I'm a bit confused about which is the official channel.
2021-05-26 09:47:47	CrtxReavr	(for various values of person)
2021-05-26 09:47:56	CrtxReavr	#python
2021-05-26 09:48:06	Celelibi	On which network, I mean. :)
2021-05-26 09:48:15	stealth_	i see it now, weird it didn't show up the first time
2021-05-26 09:48:20	grawity	the official website linked in the /topic seems to have the official answer to that
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2021-05-26 09:48:58	CrtxReavr	https://www.pound-python.org/ <==the official word
2021-05-26 09:48:59	cousteau	CrtxReavr: hurr hurr
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2021-05-26 09:49:15	cousteau	(re: "#python")
2021-05-26 09:49:16	Celelibi	ok.
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2021-05-26 09:49:42	SnoopJ	Celelibi, they're both operated by PSF affiliates, but it sounds like Libera is becoming the preferred locale
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2021-05-26 09:49:43	Celelibi	I think you can say it. It's putting it in the topic that's frowned upon.
2021-05-26 09:50:11	CrtxReavr	nowarning, did you go to the libera.chat website for client-specific info to setup for SASL?
2021-05-26 09:50:15	Knyght	I think it's more that it's easier to scrape the topic list for defiant channels ;)
2021-05-26 09:50:15	mefistofeles	CrtxReavr: ah, nice link, thanks
2021-05-26 09:50:19	SnoopJ	It's unclear what is frowned on here on Freenode, except for whatever it is that currently has the staff frowning, and that is subject to rapid changes at the moment.
2021-05-26 09:50:42	cousteau	There's suspicions that all conversations may be monitored, but yeah, just mentioning it is probably safe
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2021-05-26 09:50:59	CrtxReavr	SnoopJ, if you make Lee questions his intentions & motivations, you're wrong!
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2021-05-26 09:51:51	cousteau	Tomorrow: "Pronouncing gif as gif instead of gif is against freenode policy"
2021-05-26 09:52:36	CrtxReavr	cousteau, wait, you mean "gif" or "gif?
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2021-05-26 09:52:39	CrtxReavr	"
2021-05-26 09:53:02	-->	Quaking (~Quaking@167.89.254.27) has joined #python
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2021-05-26 09:53:36	cousteau	Yes
2021-05-26 09:53:42	<--	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:53:46	CrtxReavr	Okay, got it. . . I think.
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2021-05-26 10:11:02	sanketdg	This is really strange, I use `__dict__` on this object and I am pretty sure there is some sort of eager/delayed execution here, where I can't get the value inside the dict unless I debug the code and go line by line. Anyone know what I am looking at?
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2021-05-26 10:12:47	mefistofeles	sanketdg: minimal working example?
2021-05-26 10:12:53	SnoopJ	yea it would help to see some code there
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2021-05-26 10:15:45	sanketdg	mefistofeles: https://bpa.st/OMBQ
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2021-05-26 10:16:11	kosh	sanketdg, the channel has moved  https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-26 10:17:25	SnoopJ	sanketdg, `{shipment.__dict__}` looks suspicious right away: if .__dict__ is truly a dictionary, that cannot work, because dicts are not hashable. It would help to see the full error report(s) from the failures you mention there
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2021-05-26 10:18:24	mefistofeles	SnoopJ: oh, nice catch, I didn't see that one :P
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2021-05-26 10:19:00	sanketdg	SnoopJ, mefistofeles: apologies, I actually unpack the dictionary https://bpa.st/QJIQ
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2021-05-26 10:20:23	SnoopJ	sanketdg, okay, well Line 7 of that I would never expect to work, but Line 5 seems probably fine if that key does exist. It's hard to say without a complete reproduction and/or the error report.
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2021-05-26 10:22:04	sanketdg	SnoopJ: Line 7 works like a hack (this is old code I am trying to refactor, I am trying to understand why it exists) where you can convert a dict to an actual object
2021-05-26 10:22:22	greyblue9	gordonjcp: <just keep freenode #python for Python 2> nice onee
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2021-05-26 10:22:43	SnoopJ	sanketdg, I'll have to take your word for it with such information as I have about this issue
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2021-05-26 10:22:54	sanketdg	SnoopJ: The error report itself is just keyerror/attributeerror (with `shipment_id`)
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2021-05-26 10:23:34	SnoopJ	sanketdg, well, sounds like there's nothing amiss except that the key isn't in the dictionary. Maybe it's a @property on the original object?
2021-05-26 10:24:07	gcbirzan	sanketdg: What ORM is this?
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2021-05-26 10:24:38	sanketdg	SnoopJ: I do not know right now, but if it's a property, it will appear in `__dict__` but not in the object?
2021-05-26 10:24:49	sanketdg	gcbirzan: SQLAlchemy
2021-05-26 10:24:50	SnoopJ	sanketdg, no
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2021-05-26 10:25:30	gcbirzan	Properties don't appear in __dict__
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2021-05-26 10:26:09	gcbirzan	Not on the instance of the class, I mean
2021-05-26 10:26:17	SnoopJ	It's usually best to pretend __dict__ doesn't exist unless your hand is forced into using it. I would guess SQLAlchemy has a nicer spelling of what you want, but I don't know it
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2021-05-26 10:27:04	sanketdg	I mean this is the most popular answer, so I understand the author's predisposition https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1958219/convert-sqlalchemy-row-object-to-python-dict
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2021-05-26 10:27:10	gcbirzan	There's Table().columns
2021-05-26 10:27:24	gcbirzan	I think?
2021-05-26 10:27:44	sanketdg	gcbirzan: Yes I did refactor it into that, but I am trying to understand why this exists and why it does not work
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2021-05-26 10:28:00	nedbat	gcbirzan, sanketdg, SnoopJ: don't forget to join us in іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
2021-05-26 10:28:15	gcbirzan	nedbat: I'm there :)
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2021-05-26 10:30:12	 *	SnoopJ is as well
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2021-05-26 10:31:56	sanketdg	Any last ideas where to look at? If I debug and go line by line, the values are there, a direct execution does not work
2021-05-26 10:32:05	sanketdg	I will move to libera as well.
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2021-05-26 10:33:18	gcbirzan	sanketdg: I'd suggest oyu look into that object's __getattr__. They might be doing some weird stuff where they set the attribute on the first access.
2021-05-26 10:33:47	gcbirzan	sanketdg: Also, what debugger are you using?
2021-05-26 10:34:23	gcbirzan	pdb itself should be fine, but, for example, pycharm's one tries to get all the attributes
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2021-05-26 10:34:54	sanketdg	gcbirzan: That's makes sense and is helpful. I will take a look at the source.
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2021-05-26 10:35:12	sanketdg	I am using VSCode, which uses debugpy under the hood.
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2021-05-26 10:35:48	gcbirzan	That might work the same way
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2021-05-26 10:36:07	gcbirzan	I know we had issues with django related to exactly this, it was a fun experience
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2021-05-26 10:36:16	gcbirzan	though, granted, we weren't doing _that_ :)
2021-05-26 10:36:20	SnoopJ	debugpy is their implementation of DAP, so any debugger that uses that would work I think
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2021-05-26 10:36:50	gcbirzan	sanketdg: Anyway, if you're going to libera, let's continue this there :)
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2021-05-26 10:39:01	gordonjcp	greyblue9: ##python-deprecated
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2021-05-26 10:39:23	gordonjcp	cousteau: :-)
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2021-05-26 10:44:19	IoannisJVM	i have an object(class) with 4 attributes and i need to POST and create a list of 4 objects let's say
2021-05-26 10:44:34	IoannisJVM	how can i do that dynamically
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2021-05-26 10:46:22	greyblue9	gordonjcp: hehehe
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2021-05-26 10:47:05	greyblue9	#python_do_not_use
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2021-05-26 10:47:39	bjs	IoannisJVM: write a method that gives a list? p.s. all the people who usually answer your questions have moved to #python on irc.libera.chat. See https://www.pound-python.org/
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2021-05-26 10:47:59	greyblue9	subtle :p
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2021-05-26 10:51:45	aenesidemus	if I wanted something like `Point(0,0) + Point(1,1) == Point(1,1)` should I be making Point a class, namedtuple, or dataclass
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2021-05-26 10:52:13	bjs	aenesidemus: a class, either a dataclass or an attrs class
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2021-05-26 10:54:15	aenesidemus	bjs, thanks
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2021-05-26 10:57:28	lesshaste	If I have L = list(range(20)) and I want to make a copy with index idx removed. How can I do that?
2021-05-26 10:58:04	KirkMcDonald	L[:idx] + L[idx+1:]
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2021-05-26 10:58:05	SnoopJ	lesshaste, simplest way would be .copy() and .pop(idx)
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2021-05-26 10:58:56	lesshaste	SnoopJ,  thanks. Do I need convert the range to a list first? So M = list(range(20)).copy().pop(idx) ?
2021-05-26 10:59:18	KirkMcDonald	I mean, list() is already making a copy of the range.
2021-05-26 10:59:30	lesshaste	SnoopJ,  thanks. Do I need convert the range to a list first? So M = list(range(20)).copy(.pop(idx) ?
2021-05-26 10:59:34	KirkMcDonald	And .pop() does not return the list, it returns the thing that was removed.
2021-05-26 10:59:34	lesshaste	SnoopJ,  thanks. Do I need convert the range to a list first? So M = list(range(20)).pop(idx) ?
2021-05-26 10:59:37	SnoopJ	lesshaste, I received that the first time, thanks.
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2021-05-26 11:00:03	lesshaste	I meant... is  M = list(range(20)).pop(idx) the most compact way?
2021-05-26 11:00:20	SnoopJ	Yes, you can't call list.copy() on an object that isn't a list. You could do `list(range(idx)) + list(range(idx+1, 20))` I guess
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2021-05-26 11:00:33	lesshaste	thanks SnoopJ
2021-05-26 11:00:35	SnoopJ	I wouldn't worry about "most compact" unless your editor makes you pay by the character. Focus on what's readable.
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2021-05-26 11:01:14	gcbirzan	[v for idx, v in enumrate(l) if idx != skip_idx]
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2021-05-26 11:01:33	gcbirzan	Definitely wouldn't go with adding two lists together, though
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2021-05-26 11:01:39	lesshaste	SnoopJ,  argh no... list(range(20)).pop(5) gives you 5. I want the list
2021-05-26 11:01:51	lanken	I'm quite surprised that datetime.strptime() doesn't raise an error on the following. Can anyone shed some light on why the parsing works this way?
2021-05-26 11:01:52	lanken	In [19]: timestamp_seconds_format = '%Y%m%dT%H%M%SZ'
2021-05-26 11:01:52	lanken	In [20]: datetime.strptime('20210102T2359Z', timestamp_seconds_format)
2021-05-26 11:01:53	lanken	Out[20]: datetime.datetime(2021, 1, 2, 23, 5, 9)
2021-05-26 11:02:09	grawity	[*range(idx), range(idx+1, 20)]
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2021-05-26 11:02:37	lesshaste	grawity, thanks
2021-05-26 11:02:47	grawity	er, I missed another * in front of the range
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2021-05-26 11:03:08	SnoopJ	lesshaste, https://bpaste.net/7QCA
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2021-05-26 11:03:25	SnoopJ	pop() mutates the list you're popping from *and* returns the value (but here we don't care about that value)
2021-05-26 11:03:42	lesshaste	SnoopJ,  yes that. I was hoping for something that returned the list
2021-05-26 11:04:00	 *	SnoopJ shrugs
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2021-05-26 11:08:48	anonyme	>https://www.pound-python.org >The official Python IRC channel, on the Libera network. looks like a scum while python.org itself has different links
2021-05-26 11:08:51	-->	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has joined #python
2021-05-26 11:08:51	anonyme	https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-26 11:12:21	lanken	The "zero is optional" behavior in datetime.strptime() is documented (https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#technical-detail, see note 9 near the bottom) but not explained. I suppose when you've got separators, this might be a convenient behavior, but in my case it's forcing me to be more defensive about my inputs. Surprised to come
2021-05-26 11:12:21	lanken	across this after so many years working with Python.
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2021-05-26 11:12:22	SnoopJ	anonyme, "a scum?"
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2021-05-26 11:12:48	anonyme	SnoopJ: intended to be official while not
2021-05-26 11:12:54	kmh_	ze lee bots strike back
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2021-05-26 11:13:01	kmh_	beware of the dark side
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2021-05-26 11:14:31	bjs	anonyme: python.org takes a little longer to update
2021-05-26 11:14:33	SnoopJ	anonyme, not sure what "official" means to you, but if you'd prefer to see news from python.org: https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTUPMF3W5UH2YP4ACXHBXTQLQUE/
2021-05-26 11:15:02	bjs	anonyme: it's official,  Libera is the new home of the PSF's Python IRC channel
2021-05-26 11:15:09	jarthur	anonyme pull request is welcome if you'd like to update python.org https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/search?q=freenode&type=code
2021-05-26 11:15:30	-->	dthpulse (~quassel@podciarou.sk) has joined #python
2021-05-26 11:15:31	anonyme	>news >post from mailing list
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2021-05-26 11:16:10	bjs	anonyme: it's victor, it's about as official as it's gonna get for a bit
2021-05-26 11:16:29	SnoopJ	it also links to pound-python.org
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2021-05-26 11:16:31	bjs	it'll take time for the PSF to update python.org
2021-05-26 11:16:37	SnoopJ	(which is also in the /topic for this channel)
2021-05-26 11:16:38	anonyme	also why pound-python.org instead *.python.org if so official?
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2021-05-26 11:17:32	bjs	anonyme: it's not "the" official one yet, it's just a helpful link to explain to people what's going on
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2021-05-26 11:18:04	bjs	anonyme: https://www.python.org/community/irc/ will be the "official" place that refers to irc.libera.chat (soon^ish?)
2021-05-26 11:18:10	anonyme	>not "the" official one yet >The official Python IRC channel, on the Libera network.
2021-05-26 11:18:30	SnoopJ	anonyme, you are welcome to use whichever one you'd like
2021-05-26 11:18:33	fnutt	I hope the channel administrators consider moving the channel to either Libera, OFTC or somewhere else.
2021-05-26 11:18:42	bjs	fnutt: it already has moved to Libera
2021-05-26 11:18:47	SnoopJ	If you don't believe this channel's operators when they update their (separate) page, I don't know what to say about that
2021-05-26 11:19:13	bjs	anonyme: the /TOPIC can only be set by someone from the PSF, and it tells you that Libera is the official channel
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2021-05-26 11:19:17	bjs	and the PSF decide what is official
2021-05-26 11:19:37	bjs	the python.org website hasn't been updated yet,  that takes time
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2021-05-26 11:21:13	stealth_	bjs, according to https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTUPMF3W5UH2YP4ACXHBXTQLQUE/ admin tool over #python-fr channel! that seems like a d**k move
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2021-05-26 11:21:44	bjs	stealth_: I believe the only reason *this* channel wasn't taken over was because it said Libera not Libera.Chat in the /TOPIC it had on last night
2021-05-26 11:21:49	bjs	otherwise it'd have got blown away like the others
2021-05-26 11:22:32	SnoopJ	The part that concerns me most is not contacting channel ownership
2021-05-26 11:22:32	bjs	all the ops lost faith in freenode's new staff once channels starting being taken over
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2021-05-26 11:23:01	stealth_	bjs, if the admin have done nothing, ppl wouldn't have really moved over like they are now. some would have moved many would stay
2021-05-26 11:23:02	SnoopJ	Which strikes me as pretty much the opposite of the things that are being claimed on freenode.net about trying to prevent harm to communities, have open/decentralized operations, etc...
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2021-05-26 11:23:16	bjs	SnoopJ: I said this earlier but one of the channels I was in for a long time, the one that made me join freenode, was a registered on-topic #project channel that had been around for a timespan measured in decades
2021-05-26 11:23:40	bjs	SnoopJ: this morning we woke up to it just gone
2021-05-26 11:23:55	bjs	the ops/founders/successor had no warning, and were asleep
2021-05-26 11:23:57	SnoopJ	:(
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2021-05-26 11:24:51	bjs	SnoopJ: it was small enough that it had to be an automated strike by the bot, not a human picking channels
2021-05-26 11:24:58	bjs	it means *hundreds* would've been hit
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2021-05-26 11:25:32	grym	bjs: 700-odd, i think?
2021-05-26 11:25:40	bjs	grym: that's what kline calculated
2021-05-26 11:25:49	<--	Soni (~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:25:50	stealth_	couldn't python just have its own irc server?
2021-05-26 11:25:53	bjs	I think he grepped for libera.chat
2021-05-26 11:26:03	stealth_	all these 3rd party providers look their s**t overtime
2021-05-26 11:26:05	KirkMcDonald	stealth_: There is some value in a general FOSS IRC network.
2021-05-26 11:26:06	grym	bjs: that'll teach you to be careful with your regex!
2021-05-26 11:26:07	SnoopJ	stealth_, it's possible, but I'm not sure what the point of the maintenance effort would be
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2021-05-26 11:26:09	synthetek	<rasengan> I apologize for the poor communication and few erroneous channels that were caught up, freenode.  This was my mistake alone.
2021-05-26 11:26:10	synthetek	rasengan has changed the topic to: We'd like to thank you for your support and patience. If your channel was closed due to some reason, and you'd like to have it back please join us in #freenode-services and we will try our best to help you. Remember, we do not support spamming or advertising other networks in channels topics or in other forms. Apologies for the inconvenience that may have caused. Thank you.
2021-05-26 11:26:13	synthetek	^^
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2021-05-26 11:26:32	KirkMcDonald	At a minimum this is gross incompetence.
2021-05-26 11:26:36	bjs	sadly nuking hundreds of channels, from tiny to massive, without warning is not a mistake that people can see past
2021-05-26 11:26:46	bjs	"mistake"
2021-05-26 11:26:48	synthetek	easy to get back. i wouldnt allow spam either
2021-05-26 11:27:07	gordonjcp	it's not spam though
2021-05-26 11:27:13	gordonjcp	it's the opposite of spam
2021-05-26 11:27:19	KirkMcDonald	That the affected channel owners need to ask for the channel back is easy to not tolerate.
2021-05-26 11:27:22	<--	dan2wik (dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik) has quit (Quit: Farewell Freenode ~)
2021-05-26 11:27:37	synthetek	then go to libera, stop trying to take everyone with you. easy peasy
2021-05-26 11:27:43	KirkMcDonald	If it was a mistake, why was it not reverted automatically?
2021-05-26 11:27:47	bjs	synthetek: the community is, you are welcome to stay here
2021-05-26 11:27:56	synthetek	i'm staying
2021-05-26 11:28:08	synthetek	i know how the other admins are
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2021-05-26 11:28:27	synthetek	might be nice now, but they'll be back top the same assholes they was before.
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2021-05-26 11:28:36	anonyme	freenode corrupted to be sure, but such a link not on python.org domain looks suspicious with sort of the official statement, wish i could join libera but seems stack in some sort of limbo while libera doesn't support tor
2021-05-26 11:28:42	grym	 Nothing beside remains. Round the decay / Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare / The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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2021-05-26 11:29:05	bjs	anonyme: yes it's unfortunate the change happened so quickly that a proper statement couldn't be made on python.org
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2021-05-26 11:29:36	bjs	anonyme: it's because channels were nuked last night, the change happened quickly today.  Once python.org is updated, the /TOPIC here will be updated to point to it presumably.  Unless the channel is gone by then ...
2021-05-26 11:29:43	synthetek	he made a mistake, realized it, and is trying to fix it. what more can he do?
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2021-05-26 11:30:06	bjs	synthetek: nothing more,  he is bad at his job and blew up hundreds of channels
2021-05-26 11:30:09	bjs	that's not excusable
2021-05-26 11:30:41	synthetek	if you ask me the whole administration is acting pretty childish. administration that went to libera.
2021-05-26 11:30:56	synthetek	the mass services kill was ok though?
2021-05-26 11:31:17	<--	pbrunier (~pbrunier@84-24-22-131.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:31:18	bjs	synthetek: they are the freenode admins,  the ones on freenode aren't the old ones and haven't managed freenode before.  They may not be perfect but they've not killed channels before like this
2021-05-26 11:31:21	bjs	not that I can remember.
2021-05-26 11:31:37	stealth_	does anyone know what the whole argument between admin/staff was about?
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2021-05-26 11:31:53	synthetek	idk. i think this is all silly
2021-05-26 11:31:55	bjs	and given it happened, if it was a mistake why are these channels *still* broken?  surely you'd just undo whatever you did
2021-05-26 11:32:05	bjs	synthetek: it is,  freenode was running fine before all this
2021-05-26 11:32:07	Wulf	stealth_: https://xkcd.com/386/ I suppose.
2021-05-26 11:32:13	SnoopJ	synthetek, it *is* silly, especially characterizing it as "the plan to destroy freenode"
2021-05-26 11:32:36	nedbat	synthetek: there are new members of the freenode staff who were well-known to us as disrupters.
2021-05-26 11:32:46	synthetek	i've been over at libera
2021-05-26 11:32:55	synthetek	and that ALL they talk about
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2021-05-26 11:33:00	synthetek	yes even the admins
2021-05-26 11:33:09	bjs	synthetek: I mean, libera is a new network that only exists because of this
2021-05-26 11:33:10	yitz	That's all anyone is talking about this week everywhere
2021-05-26 11:33:13	bjs	of course they're talking about it :)
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2021-05-26 11:33:20	SnoopJ	it's not small news
2021-05-26 11:33:20	KirkMcDonald	It's all we're talking about *here*, apparently.
2021-05-26 11:33:35	nedbat	synthetek: everyone will choose the network they prefer.  it will be fine.
2021-05-26 11:33:50	<--	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:33:51	synthetek	i know
2021-05-26 11:34:02	bjs	synthetek: anyway #python on libera is like what #python was like here before today, it's just people asking Python questions and getting Python answers
2021-05-26 11:34:36	bjs	it's annoying there's two channels though
2021-05-26 11:34:38	nedbat	synthetek: i can't hope to convince you, but every day seems to bring some new indication that this network will not go well.
2021-05-26 11:34:53	nedbat	synthetek: "oops, we burned your channels. if you want them back, just ask"
2021-05-26 11:34:54	dstufft	^^
2021-05-26 11:34:57	SnoopJ	everybody does need to make up their own mind about how the administration here has changed
2021-05-26 11:35:09	SnoopJ	and some people are fine with those changes. perhaps you are one of them
2021-05-26 11:35:11	nedbat	synthetek: that's not great management
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2021-05-26 11:35:45	stealth_	why didn't they just fire bad employees
2021-05-26 11:35:57	bjs	stealth_: no employees were fired
2021-05-26 11:36:04	dstufft	If the new admins had just left things alone, some people would have moved probably, but a large # of people would have just not bothered out of convenience and/or laziness
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2021-05-26 11:36:07	bjs	stealth_: everyone that 2 weeks ago was freenode, is now libera
2021-05-26 11:36:12	bjs	and everyone that's freenode now is new
2021-05-26 11:36:23	stealth_	dstufft, exactly
2021-05-26 11:36:24	dstufft	but as each new day seems to bring some new form of abuse of power, that drives more people away
2021-05-26 11:36:36	bjs	dstufft: it's what I was worried about
2021-05-26 11:36:38	bjs	more splintering
2021-05-26 11:36:59	synthetek	i'm not new.
2021-05-26 11:37:14	dstufft	ironically by attempting to quell people from moving to libera or <somewher else>, the freenode admin team has more or less pushed more people out
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2021-05-26 11:37:42	dstufft	which is a common mistake amongst people with power trying to crush dissent for the first time
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2021-05-26 11:38:07	stealth_	control freak mindset
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2021-05-26 11:38:18	grym	dstufft: i've got this bowl of jello for you to hold onto *very tightly*
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2021-05-26 11:38:52	SnoopJ	they say that freenode is FOSS, and if this is true, I believe the principles underlying FOSS are being shifted pretty dramatically
2021-05-26 11:39:26	dstufft	I mean FOSS encompases a pretty wide range of things, and a lot of people ascribe a lot more to "FOSS" than what it actually is
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2021-05-26 11:39:41	rgr	total bullshit overreactionn as usual from people with nowt better to do. "He has our email". Yawn. Freenode wasnt suddenly not free.
2021-05-26 11:39:44	SnoopJ	that apology is the first one I've seen; it's not impossible that the admin here could take the feedback they're receiving and come out of it yet
2021-05-26 11:39:58	stealth_	they should have hired experienced ppl, not ppl that don't know how to maintain community
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2021-05-26 11:40:30	SnoopJ	stealth_, I would guess the priority was to hire anybody with the requisite skillset who was available, since having no-staff is a pretty bad idea
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2021-05-26 11:40:44	synthetek	^
2021-05-26 11:40:59	stealth_	SnoopJ, well they sure took the ship down with them
2021-05-26 11:41:16	anonyme	my main concern is about why staff created new net instead migration to oftc for example? they want too much power that oftc won't provide them to admin chans or what?
2021-05-26 11:41:49	bjs	anonyme: they didn't really do much except continue to run freenode except under irc.libera.chat domain instead
2021-05-26 11:42:15	anonyme	bjs: then where to support?
2021-05-26 11:42:23	anonyme	*tor suuport
2021-05-26 11:42:23	bjs	anonyme: what do you mean?
2021-05-26 11:42:36	dstufft	"sort of freenode, but not" is probably an easier sell than trying to argue which one of the other existing networks is the right home
2021-05-26 11:42:52	bjs	dstufft: neither are right
2021-05-26 11:42:59	bjs	it's sad,  but it's happened
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2021-05-26 11:43:07	grym	hard forks are rough
2021-05-26 11:43:18	synthetek	someone was posting stuff over at libera yesterday. let me find it real quick.
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2021-05-26 11:43:45	bjs	libera is big now, >20k users or something
2021-05-26 11:44:11	bjs	and hundreds of the communities that blew up moved over and are trying to get registered. I expect the staff are very busy
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2021-05-26 11:45:07	anonyme	bjs: >continue to run freenode except under irc.libera.chat domain instead, if so where they missed tor support?
2021-05-26 11:45:18	bjs	anonyme: I don't know what you're asking
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2021-05-26 11:45:23	bjs	oh tor?
2021-05-26 11:45:29	bjs	sorry I misread
2021-05-26 11:45:35	synthetek	https://search.censys.io/hosts/193.11.31.116/data/table#7070-TCP-UNKNOWN <-- server behind the ddos firewall is exposed
2021-05-26 11:45:38	synthetek	https://bgp.he.net/AS2603#_graph4 Telia Company AB , literally getting traffic shaped rn
2021-05-26 11:45:50	synthetek	someone over at libera posted this last night
2021-05-26 11:45:54	synthetek	idk
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2021-05-26 11:46:08	synthetek	part of me wants to go, but then i don't
2021-05-26 11:46:13	synthetek	:\
2021-05-26 11:46:16	bjs	anonyme: they've not finished,  tor and webchat and things still need to get running
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2021-05-26 11:47:15	SnoopJ	you'll go or you won't
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2021-05-26 11:47:21	kosh	synthetek, there is not much of a choice about going, freenode has destroyed almost a thousand channels
2021-05-26 11:47:34	SnoopJ	although it's not quite a dichotomy yet
2021-05-26 11:47:52	kosh	I expect this place to become bad fairly quickly
2021-05-26 11:47:53	stealth_	also whats up with ppl ddos'ing freenode? something seems fishy
2021-05-26 11:48:10	kosh	stealth_, that has happened MANY times
2021-05-26 11:48:15	SnoopJ	stealth_, that describes more of freenode's history than it doesn't
2021-05-26 11:48:37	stealth_	ya but why? there seems to be more and more attackers
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2021-05-26 11:48:48	bjs	stealth_: internet drama
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2021-05-26 11:49:39	bjs	there's always someone to stoke the flames
2021-05-26 11:49:56	grym	or count coup when there's no-one looking
2021-05-26 11:50:01	stealth_	maybe they have something to gain out of it
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2021-05-26 11:50:16	grym	stealth_: updoots, obviously
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2021-05-26 11:50:39	bjs	stealth_: you'll be surprised how much people will do on the internet for little to no gain
2021-05-26 11:50:43	bjs	on both ends of the spectrum
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2021-05-26 11:51:11	grym	sayre's law, but more so
2021-05-26 11:51:13	SnoopJ	stealth_, it doesn't seem like a coincidence that freenode is implying such things are an organized conspiracy against them
2021-05-26 11:51:52	SnoopJ	whether or not they are, it bolsters "We're doing this for you"
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2021-05-26 11:52:09	stealth_	well the fact that there is this new service to jump ship into does seem too good to be true at the right time.
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2021-05-26 11:53:12	bjs	stealth_: the libera staff won't be ddos'ing their own old network,  for a start all of their own resources are fairly thin just running the new one :P
2021-05-26 11:53:20	kosh	over 700 channels where destroyed last night
2021-05-26 11:53:28	SnoopJ	I certainly wouldn't believe such an allegation without...reason?
2021-05-26 11:53:28	kosh	my bet would be on some of them being behind the attack
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2021-05-26 11:54:09	kosh	screwing over tens of thousands of people and you can expect some pushback
2021-05-26 11:54:11	bjs	stealth_: that said there are lots of users of freenode and libera who have ill-intent and lots of free resources to spend aggravating the other side
2021-05-26 11:54:21	stealth_	bjs, i am not saying libera staff is doing such a thing, well they use to be the old freenode while they were getting attacked as well
2021-05-26 11:54:24	 *	SnoopJ is much more concerned with official acts than with assigning blame for botnet attacks that have been a relatively constant feature of this network
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2021-05-26 11:54:51	kosh	SnoopJ, yes and I doubt the libera stuff is behind any of the attacks
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2021-05-26 11:55:17	SnoopJ	kosh, I doubt it too, but I don't have evidence either way. It could be a third-party who just wants to stir the pot, too.
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2021-05-26 11:55:25	nedbat	kosh: which attacks are you talking about?  The libera staff took over the channels, though they now say it was over-zealous in error
2021-05-26 11:55:57	synthetek	If someone went to file abuse report, Namecheap doesn't handle abuse reports properly nor does linode or github. thats what i'm afraid of. getting there and it get shutdown for some stupid reason.
2021-05-26 11:55:59	kosh	nedbat, someone was talking about ddos on the servers and we where talking about how that is fairly normal for this network
2021-05-26 11:56:14	nedbat	kosh: i see
2021-05-26 11:56:35	kosh	nedbat, and some of us said we hightly doubt the libera staff had anything to do with it
2021-05-26 11:56:35	synthetek	i'll just wait it out.
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2021-05-26 11:56:52	SnoopJ	okay
2021-05-26 11:56:53	kosh	and that it is more likely that someone in the channels destroyed last night could be involved
2021-05-26 11:57:08	synthetek	i'm there now, so if any of you go i'll see you there. not saying i'm staying. only time will tell. :)
2021-05-26 11:57:29	SnoopJ	#python is in the same place there
2021-05-26 11:57:38	kosh	I am just here to help direct people over as I see them
2021-05-26 11:58:09	stealth_	someone bought libera.chat a month ago so they had planned to create their own thing a month ago, which could have upset the admin of freenode?
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2021-05-26 11:58:31	 *	SnoopJ is here to talk about Python
2021-05-26 11:58:54	 *	SnoopJ ...isn't doing a great job at the moment
2021-05-26 11:58:57	dstufft	stealth_: It was presumably not a giant surprise to the staffers who left that something *might* happen
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2021-05-26 11:59:07	dstufft	since all of their storeis talk about a behind the scenes power struggle
2021-05-26 11:59:17	mefistofeles	SnoopJ: relly nice constricting snake
2021-05-26 11:59:21	mefistofeles	*REALLY
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2021-05-26 11:59:26	mefistofeles	omg... cannot type
2021-05-26 11:59:38	dstufft	presumably at some point during that struggle the folks who went to form libera started to come up with a contigency plan
2021-05-26 11:59:49	synthetek	and then you have people from libera joining staff here just to mock the admins here etc, and leave. kinda childish
2021-05-26 12:00:09	SnoopJ	synthetek, most of the former staff have been permanently barred from the network
2021-05-26 12:00:11	stealth_	dstufft, ppl are so petty
2021-05-26 12:00:28	bjs	synthetek: you have the other way around as well,  people are petty and childish
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2021-05-26 12:00:38	mefistofeles	SnoopJ: yeah, I guess dstufft doesn't mean libera staff... just people on there
2021-05-26 12:00:45	mefistofeles	which, I mean, trolls are gonna troll
2021-05-26 12:00:45	synthetek	not staff
2021-05-26 12:00:58	synthetek	the head of alinelinux
2021-05-26 12:01:02	synthetek	alpine
2021-05-26 12:01:36	anonyme	>bought libera.chat a month ago, so they cannot configure/recreate tor support for a month, ugh
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2021-05-26 12:01:57	mefistofeles	anyways, yeah, python :)
2021-05-26 12:02:00	bjs	synthetek: an individual who is unrelated to libera.chat or freenode, expresses a personal opinion
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2021-05-26 12:02:03	bjs	synthetek: that sounds fine to me
2021-05-26 12:02:09	synthetek	yeah they started working on it at the begining of april
2021-05-26 12:02:12	habnabit_	synthetek, why's it matter? do you think that people being rude is harmful?
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2021-05-26 12:02:29	bjs	rude is ok, spamming/off-topic/hateful is not, there are lines
2021-05-26 12:02:50	bjs	you can't even see what people say in #freenode anymore, I assume they got a lot of hateful comments
2021-05-26 12:02:51	synthetek	they have done plenty of spamming
2021-05-26 12:03:02	bjs	synthetek: who is "they" that you refer to
2021-05-26 12:03:05	nedbat	synthetek: is there anything more to say than, "everyone will choose the network they prefer.  it will be fine."
2021-05-26 12:03:08	habnabit_	bjs, george soros
2021-05-26 12:03:10	bjs	spam is a big problem on both networks
2021-05-26 12:03:11	synthetek	all the old staff that left
2021-05-26 12:03:18	synthetek	i was here when the moved.
2021-05-26 12:03:34	synthetek	thats all i saw for a few days, was go to liber.chat etc
2021-05-26 12:03:42	stealth_	the big problem is banning/shutting down of channels cause of some ppl talking about another service
2021-05-26 12:04:00	bjs	synthetek: I think they sent a few wallops, but you have to opt-in to those
2021-05-26 12:04:18	bjs	so if you saw them, then shrug?
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2021-05-26 12:05:00	bjs	I forget how much they did it, I should check my logs
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2021-05-26 12:06:14	SnoopJ	topical question: anybody used SWIG with CMake? I'm trying to set a compile-time define on the generated file, but the way the UseSWIG docs say to do it doesn't seem to work...
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2021-05-26 12:07:50	nbro	I'm trying to find the best solution for my purposes. My problem is how to deal with configuration options. In my case, the configuration variables can be integers, strings, tuples, formatted strings or can be constructed from other configuration options. I was looking at configparser, but I'm not sure it supports all these options, and so if it was the best solution for my purposes. I although thought of creating a class for each subcategory of
2021-05-26 12:07:50	nbro	 configurations (yes, I have subcategories). However, the problem is that, to save these configurations to a file, I would go through all classes, so I could have a class that includes all the other config classes, that takes care of saving and loading all optoins, but I'm not sure it's the best approach
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2021-05-26 12:08:21	bjs	nbro: hi,  the people that usually answer your questions have mostly moved to irc.libera.chat , you can see more with the link in the /TOPIC https://www.pound-python.org/
2021-05-26 12:08:34	bjs	nbro: which does configparser not support?
2021-05-26 12:09:07	nbro	I don't know, to be honest
2021-05-26 12:09:16	nbro	I know it supports subcategories
2021-05-26 12:09:22	stealth_	habnabit_, lol
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2021-05-26 12:10:34	bjs	nbro: if you want a general-purpose configuration format, people seem to like .toml these days.  Lots of things that unpack directly into a Python dict, with strings
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2021-05-26 12:17:24	nbro	bjs: yea, but I am not sure if it supports the definition of certain variables based on other variables
2021-05-26 12:17:35	nbro	it allows you to define strings and arrays
2021-05-26 12:17:36	nbro	that's fine
2021-05-26 12:17:39	bjs	nbro: oh you mean like, inside the config?
2021-05-26 12:17:45	bjs	nbro: like `foo = $bar=1` ?
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2021-05-26 12:17:50	bjs	+1 or something
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2021-05-26 12:25:57	nbro	bjs: yes, exactly
2021-05-26 12:25:59	nbro	inside the config file
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2021-05-26 12:26:14	bjs	nbro: I think in general configuration files don't support that kind of thing
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2021-05-26 12:26:22	bjs	it is moving closer to being code than configuration
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2021-05-26 12:26:54	stealth_	there is `string.template`
2021-05-26 12:26:57	bjs	YAML might be able to do it?
2021-05-26 12:27:24	nbro	well, apparently, configparser suppors referencing other variables
2021-05-26 12:27:31	nbro	with $(my_var) syntax
2021-05-26 12:27:43	stealth_	https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.Template
2021-05-26 12:27:46	nbro	so I guess toml also does it?
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2021-05-26 12:29:06	bjs	nbro: yes https://docs.python.org/3/library/configparser.html#interpolation-of-values  but you can't do arbitrary e.g. arithmetic on them
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2021-05-26 12:32:33	nbro	bjs: the nice thing about toml, apparently, compared to configparser, is that it already forces you to provide the correct type of the values
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2021-05-26 12:32:43	nbro	for instance, strings are enclosed in quotes
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2021-05-26 12:33:08	nbro	if allows me to concatenate strings and to reference strings, toml would be what I need
2021-05-26 12:33:15	nbro	I'm trying to understand if it allows this
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2021-05-26 12:34:07	nbro	but it's also true that configparser already comes with python, so we don't need to install it, but that's not a big problem as these libraries are probably lightweight anyway
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2021-05-26 12:39:30	KirkMcDonald	I have never liked ConfigParser.
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2021-05-26 12:41:36	mefistofeles	KirkMcDonald: same here, but yet, it's useful
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2021-05-26 13:15:31	Thanatos	Hello everyone
2021-05-26 13:15:56	sybariten	hello Thanatos
2021-05-26 13:16:18	gitesh	Hi Thanatos
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2021-05-26 13:17:47	sybariten	someone here recently suggested i should use a helper function to determine if a value is an integer. Which was a really good idea    https://bpa.st/YQSQ
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2021-05-26 13:19:08	sybariten	The thing is i have realized that for this exercise I'm going through we hadn't really learned much about functions. So maybe i should try and do this without an external function. Could someone give me a hint of how to solve this? Basically i have a list "words" coming in from the user via input()
2021-05-26 13:19:40	sybariten	so i'm guessing all of the items _will_ be strings, but i need to make a test in one line there as seen.... where i test if one of the items is int-able ...
2021-05-26 13:20:48	Thanatos	I'm trying to find the difference between four lists of items
2021-05-26 13:21:17	gitesh	all user input is string
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2021-05-26 13:21:34	sybariten	gitesh: yup
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2021-05-26 13:21:59	gitesh	if you are not casting it probably it won't change its class/type
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2021-05-26 13:24:09	sybariten	gitesh: i will cast it afterwards, when using it.... (if int(words[3]) means casting)
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2021-05-26 13:25:42	Thanatos	The lists have over 50,000 items so I'm looking for a way to differentiate between all of them efficiently.
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2021-05-26 13:25:51	gitesh	you cast it yeah that way, then you assign it castedValue = int(words[3])
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2021-05-26 13:28:17	sybariten	gitesh: i don't get it....   how do i make a test on a list, if:  1.) the first item is "inv"   2.) the second item is "pick" , 3.) the fourth item is something that can be converted to int , and 4.) the length of the list is exactly four items?
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2021-05-26 13:28:34	sybariten	cause those are the four criteras i would like to meet
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2021-05-26 13:29:14	gitesh	sybariten: using ==
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2021-05-26 13:29:46	sybariten	gitesh: could you explain?  == is what i used in the pasted example
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2021-05-26 13:30:21	kosh	the channel has moved https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-26 13:33:31	gitesh	sybariten: yes you are using ==
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2021-05-26 13:34:21	bjs	sybariten: `if list[0] == "inv" and list[1] == "pick" and ...` like that?
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2021-05-26 13:34:52	bjs	sybariten: what's wrong with something like that
2021-05-26 13:35:33	sybariten	gitesh: .....yes..??  What do you mean?
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2021-05-26 13:36:04	gitesh	sybariten: i don't know if you want helper function there or just int(var) will do the job
2021-05-26 13:36:32	gitesh	because if i did `if int(3):    print('hello')` it prints hello
2021-05-26 13:36:46	grym	gitesh: now try int('0')
2021-05-26 13:36:56	bjs	gitesh: or try int("foo")
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2021-05-26 13:37:28	sybariten	bjs: yes, that's what i'm using...  you can see it in my earlier paste. https://bpa.st/YQSQ  But if you look at the four requirements for my test that i posted above, requirement number three is that one of the items in this list should be _convertible_ to an integer
2021-05-26 13:37:28	bjs	sybariten: you can just do whatever you were doing inside the function, outside the function
2021-05-26 13:37:50	bjs	sybariten: I'm not sure what the problem is here, your code works, all you want to do is not use a function
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2021-05-26 13:38:09	bjs	or does the code you paste not work?
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2021-05-26 13:39:03	sybariten	bjs Sure. my whole script works. But the if-line relies on the function, which in itself relies on a try/catch case. Which returns true or false. I have no clue how to structure an if-line that somehow does the same test
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2021-05-26 13:40:06	stealth_	sybariten, link to code?
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2021-05-26 13:40:38	bjs	sybariten: instead of a function that returns true/false just write the try/except before the if and make a variable
2021-05-26 13:40:44	bjs	sybariten: is there something I am missing?
2021-05-26 13:41:02	sybariten	stealth_: this is just an excerpt but i _think_ it shouyld demonstrate what/how i'm doing:  https://bpa.st/YQSQ
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2021-05-26 13:41:42	sybariten	bjs: ah, OK i think i understand. a variable... hang on
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2021-05-26 13:42:38	sybariten	Actually, come think of it, i'm definitely not sure we had learned about try/catch either, when we got this exercise, so i'm a bit curious how one is supposed to solve this task then... but whatever....
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2021-05-26 13:43:39	stealth_	sybariten, why not return `int(s)` and `return 0` on value error?
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2021-05-26 13:44:49	stealth_	sybariten, then you manually check `int(words[3])` again you should depend on your function to get this task done once.
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2021-05-26 13:45:10	bjs	stealth_: remember 0 is falsey
2021-05-26 13:45:21	bjs	and returning 0 means you can't tell the difference between "not an int" and "the int 0"
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2021-05-26 13:45:51	stealth_	sybariten, like `words_3 = representsInt(words[3])` then check `if words_3 > len(backpack):` so on
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2021-05-26 13:46:21	sartan	Thanatos: 50k list items isn't a big deal. have you considered simple set comparison?
2021-05-26 13:46:29	sybariten	stealth_: if you are talking about the helper function..? I dont think i should use a def at all. But maybe you meant something else.
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2021-05-26 13:47:00	stealth_	bjs, if its `0` one of the function will fail anyways so its ok.
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2021-05-26 13:47:35	bjs	stealth_: why would they fail?
2021-05-26 13:47:37	sartan	same = set(lista) & set(listb); missing = set(lista) - set(listb); extra = set(listb) - set(lista)
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2021-05-26 13:47:58	stealth_	sybariten, before you do the whole if/elif thing do `words_3 = representsInt(words[3])` then use `words_3`
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2021-05-26 13:48:11	Thanatos	sartan, I'm looking across 4 lists
2021-05-26 13:48:22	stealth_	bjs, line: 10 would
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2021-05-26 13:48:32	bjs	stealth_: why would it?
2021-05-26 13:48:54	stealth_	`representsInt` returns `0`
2021-05-26 13:49:05	bjs	stealth_: it returns False
2021-05-26 13:49:23	sybariten	stealth_: i'm trying to find a way to not use representsInt() at all
2021-05-26 13:49:40	stealth_	bjs, yes, i was saying, they should either return `int(s)` or return 0
2021-05-26 13:49:47	bjs	stealth_: except that'd be wrong
2021-05-26 13:49:53	bjs	because then "0" wouldn't work
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2021-05-26 13:50:18	stealth_	bjs, sure
2021-05-26 13:50:21	bjs	sybariten: why?  it's a fine function
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2021-05-26 13:50:32	bjs	stealth_: so... that's a good reason to not do it that way
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2021-05-26 13:50:48	stealth_	bjs, my comment about `return int(s)` is still valid
2021-05-26 13:50:52	bjs	stealth_: no
2021-05-26 13:50:53	Thanatos	So maybe 200k+ items in total,
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2021-05-26 13:50:57	bjs	stealth_: then 0 won't work
2021-05-26 13:51:08	Tashtari	sybariten: What about https://bpa.st/3KGQ
2021-05-26 13:51:10	stealth_	bjs, what is it return `1` ?
2021-05-26 13:51:13	bjs	stealth_: if you return int(s)   then representsInt("0") is falsey
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2021-05-26 13:51:37	bjs	stealth_: currently it returns True if the string represents an int, and False otherwise. It's very clear and obviously correct
2021-05-26 13:51:44	bjs	what you suggest just doesn't do the same thing for "0"
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2021-05-26 13:52:30	stealth_	bjs, so you are not doing `int(words[3])` and over again, you already checked and gotten the value first.
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2021-05-26 13:52:50	bjs	stealth_: sure you save one function call, by making the code incorrect
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2021-05-26 13:53:15	bjs	might as well replace the whole condition with just `if words[7] == "jar"`,  sure it's wrong but at least it saves the function call! :P
2021-05-26 13:53:22	stealth_	bjs, yes
2021-05-26 13:53:50	stealth_	think the function call is important cause that `s` might not be int!
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2021-05-26 13:54:32	bjs	stealth_: where?
2021-05-26 13:54:43	stealth_	bjs, line:1
2021-05-26 13:54:54	bjs	sybariten: `s.isdecimal()`  can also work
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2021-05-26 13:54:57	bjs	stealth_: line 1 of which paste :)
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2021-05-26 13:56:16	bjs	stealth_: I don't really see what you're getting at.  This paste https://bpa.st/YQSQ from sybariten looks perfectly fine, and correct.
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2021-05-26 13:56:25	bjs	Making the function `return int(s)` would make it wrong and broken?
2021-05-26 13:56:29	bjs	(For "0" at least)
2021-05-26 13:56:39	swensson	Hey guys, anyone know any good stock market API? Gonna give a shot at trying to fix my own "dashboard" for the current $$
2021-05-26 13:56:49	stealth_	bjs, no, also i lost interest.
2021-05-26 13:57:00	bjs	stealth_: no to what?
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2021-05-26 13:57:56	sybariten	I urgently need to go pick up a pizza before they close but i think i will bbl with basically the same question  :)    thank you bjs  !  Tashtari - will look a bit later!
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2021-05-26 13:58:36	sybariten	bjs: quicklyu though - the reason i wanted to avoid the function is because we havent learned about the concepts of functions  :)   (school exercise)
2021-05-26 13:58:52	bjs	sybariten: oh okay,  that's fair enough.  Functions are good, and I think the one there is a good function.
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2021-05-26 13:59:13	bjs	It makes the code easier to understand than the other ways that involve putting the try/except inside or before the if.
2021-05-26 13:59:26	sybariten	Oh yeah sure they are brilliant and we will probably build upon the same script in the following exercise, making it with functions instead.
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2021-05-26 14:00:39	enrh	nedbat: Pretty ballsy mentioning Libera in a topic on the crown prince's network
2021-05-26 14:01:00	NoImNotNineVolt	enrh: look closely
2021-05-26 14:01:02	bjs	enrh: the text "Libera" doesn't appear in the /TOPIC at all :)
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2021-05-26 14:01:45	KirkMcDonald	bjs: Eh?
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2021-05-26 14:02:26	KirkMcDonald	Ahh
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2021-05-26 14:02:57	bjs	KirkMcDonald: the trick might fool the bots,  but once a member of staff sees it...  it's definitely against the new "policy"
2021-05-26 14:03:05	enrh	I don't get it
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2021-05-26 14:03:10	bjs	(to "advertise" other networks in the /TOPIC)
2021-05-26 14:03:20	enrh	But let's just move on so we don't draw attention
2021-05-26 14:03:22	bjs	enrh: the topic contains "Lіbеrа", and those aren't the characters you think they are
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2021-05-26 14:03:50	ChrisWarrick	oh, sneaky
2021-05-26 14:03:59	enrh	Whaaa
2021-05-26 14:04:00	enrh	How
2021-05-26 14:04:02	enrh	is
2021-05-26 14:04:10	NoImNotNineVolt	the wonderful world of unicode.
2021-05-26 14:04:11	bjs	enrh: nedbat is a unicode nerd
2021-05-26 14:04:21	bjs	and had to get some weird unicode characters into the /TOPIC some day ;)
2021-05-26 14:04:23	ChrisWarrick	['LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L', 'CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I', 'LATIN SMALL LETTER B', 'CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER IE', 'LATIN SMALL LETTER R', 'CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A']
2021-05-26 14:04:24	enrh	He is definitely one if not both of those things
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2021-05-26 14:05:19	KirkMcDonald	 /w 35
2021-05-26 14:05:23	KirkMcDonald	Whoops
2021-05-26 14:05:38	NoImNotNineVolt	this single event is really making me reconsider my otherwise unshakable advocacy for ascii :P
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2021-05-26 14:05:53	enrh	This makes me like ASCII more
2021-05-26 14:06:01	enrh	Back when L's were just L's and i's were just i's
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2021-05-26 14:06:19	 *	NoImNotNineVolt shakes his cane and mutters something about his lawn
2021-05-26 14:06:22	habnabit_	some people speak languages which don't fit in ascii
2021-05-26 14:06:30	NoImNotNineVolt	habnabit_: indeed, my native language.
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2021-05-26 14:06:45	enrh	Well it's the solution to make two indentical set of pixels be different?
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2021-05-26 14:07:20	NoImNotNineVolt	though at least in my case, ascii is "good enough". not so for korean hangul or something.
2021-05-26 14:07:24	ChrisWarrick	depending on your font choice, I might be very similar to l
2021-05-26 14:07:30	stealth_	is it chinese that has more then 256 letters in its language?
2021-05-26 14:07:36	NoImNotNineVolt	and i'll even fully admit that featural alphabets are superior to something like latin.
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2021-05-26 14:07:44	stealth_	128
2021-05-26 14:07:46	swensson	gordonjcp
2021-05-26 14:07:51	swensson	You up? =)
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2021-05-26 14:08:53	NoImNotNineVolt	but ascii had first mover advantage, and was the world's best shot at embracing a single common means of communication. i doubt another opportunity like that will present itself in my lifetime, perhaps ever. but that's offtopic :P
2021-05-26 14:09:25	mike18	hi someone here with python boto3 experience to access aws s3?
2021-05-26 14:09:27	bjs	enrh: I think the solution is to try make a meaningful distinction between the glyph that you see and the character/whatever it represents
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2021-05-26 14:09:39	bjs	and sometimes you have two characters that happen to look the same but appear in different contexts
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2021-05-26 14:09:54	bjs	well maybe not "happen",  there's usually complex historical and linguistic reasons
2021-05-26 14:09:55	bjs	:P
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2021-05-26 14:11:12	mike18	hi someone here with python boto3 experience to access aws s3?
2021-05-26 14:11:20	mike18	need some feedback to: https://pastebin.com/MBK8QsU9
2021-05-26 14:11:22	infobob	https://bpaste.net/L4EQ (repasted for mike18)
2021-05-26 14:11:49	ChrisWarrick	NoImNotNineVolt: it looks like yuo forgot about EBCDIC
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2021-05-26 14:11:55	NoImNotNineVolt	lol, $employer blacklists pastebin.com now
2021-05-26 14:12:00	enrh	We ought to just standardize on one of the languages that we need to support complex coordination
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2021-05-26 14:12:18	NoImNotNineVolt	ChrisWarrick: which is embarassing, because i've actually worked with it before. hardware support for bcd is just grand.
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2021-05-26 14:12:22	bjs	enrh: we did, and we called it FORTRAN :P
2021-05-26 14:12:23	ELFrederich	is there no !^ operator?  I want to do `bool(condition_1) !^ bool(condition_2)` ... so I have to do `not (bool(condition_1) ^ bool(condition_2))`
2021-05-26 14:12:32	enrh	bjs: LOL
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2021-05-26 14:12:59	NoImNotNineVolt	ChrisWarrick: i'm okay being just as much a cheerleader for EBCDIC in the 70s as i am for ascii in the microcomputer age :P
2021-05-26 14:13:03	bjs	ELFrederich: is that not xor?  xnor?
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2021-05-26 14:13:14	bjs	ELFrederich: that's just called ==
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2021-05-26 14:13:41	ELFrederich	bjs, hmm
2021-05-26 14:13:48	bjs	ELFrederich: hmm?
2021-05-26 14:14:03	NoImNotNineVolt	mike18: so what's the issue?
2021-05-26 14:14:04	stealth_	!=
2021-05-26 14:14:15	bjs	stealth_: != is xor,  == is xnor
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2021-05-26 14:14:53	mike18	NoImNotNineVolt: im using session.client and list_objects_v2 - can it be done in a better way? also do i need this ContinuationToken ?
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2021-05-26 14:15:15	ELFrederich	bjs, I guess so.  Once the conditions are wrapped in bool()
2021-05-26 14:15:19	mike18	download_all should download all files within a directory into a list...
2021-05-26 14:15:48	NoImNotNineVolt	mike18: yea that's not at all how i've done it, but if it works for you, i see nothing wrong with it...
2021-05-26 14:15:49	bjs	ELFrederich: you seem unhappy with this solution
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2021-05-26 14:15:59	mike18	NoImNotNineVolt: how you did it?
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2021-05-26 14:16:53	NoImNotNineVolt	data = boto3.client('s3').get_object(Bucket=x, Key=y)['Body'].read()
2021-05-26 14:17:23	NoImNotNineVolt	so, similar...
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2021-05-26 14:17:56	mike18	hm ok did you also use list_objects_v2?
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2021-05-26 14:18:05	mike18	to list all files in a dir/
2021-05-26 14:18:06	mike18	?
2021-05-26 14:18:11	NoImNotNineVolt	i don't remember, current codebase only puts and gets, no listing.
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2021-05-26 14:18:31	ELFrederich	bjs, seems confusing.  It's really an xnor operation, so I'd prefer to see !^
2021-05-26 14:18:33	mike18	so you use session.client or session.ressource?
2021-05-26 14:18:40	mike18	NoImNotNineVolt:
2021-05-26 14:18:49	bjs	ELFrederich: I'd say, it's really just a neq operation so I'd prefer to use != :P
2021-05-26 14:18:52	bjs	or ==
2021-05-26 14:18:55	NoImNotNineVolt	i did it differently for listing objects in a bucket...
2021-05-26 14:19:10	bjs	ELFrederich: suffice to say, the language isn't going to define two operators that do the same thing
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2021-05-26 14:19:22	ELFrederich	bjs, HAHA
2021-05-26 14:19:28	bjs	ELFrederich: `def xnor(a, b): return bool(a) != bool(b)`
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2021-05-26 14:19:37	bjs	oops I got it backwards again :(
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2021-05-26 14:19:44	gordonjcp	swensson: hi
2021-05-26 14:19:45	bjs	`return bool(a) == bool(b)`
2021-05-26 14:19:50	NoImNotNineVolt	for obj in bucket.objects
2021-05-26 14:19:58	gordonjcp	swensson: did you solve your "getting stuff into leaflet" problem?
2021-05-26 14:20:12	ELFrederich	bjs, that whole "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it." was abandoned years ago
2021-05-26 14:20:21	NoImNotNineVolt	where bucket is for bucket in s3.buckets.all();  and s3 = boto3.resource('s3')
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2021-05-26 14:20:47	bjs	ELFrederich: this isn't two ways to do it, this is suggesting there should be two operators that are exactly the same thing
2021-05-26 14:20:56	bjs	different symbols, but the same.  Which is a bit different
2021-05-26 14:21:00	NoImNotNineVolt	for the first i used boto3's client, for the latter i used boto3's resource
2021-05-26 14:21:05	bjs	and it's unlikely to make a convincing proposal
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2021-05-26 14:21:54	ELFrederich	mike18, you know boto3 supports pagination right?  You shouldn't have to write code that deals with continuation tokens
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2021-05-26 14:22:15	NoImNotNineVolt	ELFrederich: thank you for confirming that, i was starting to sweat a bit :P
2021-05-26 14:22:27	 *	ELFrederich looks up some code
2021-05-26 14:22:32	mike18	ELFrederich: no - what to change in my case?
2021-05-26 14:22:50	tete_	hi, when i use transfer learning and use the mobilenet v2 model, can i somehow get the classes? when i use that model to predict something, how can i know what it predicted? i guess thats somewhere hidden in a field like a list or so, but i can not find it :/
2021-05-26 14:22:52	mike18	ELFrederich: even when using list_objects_v2 ?
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2021-05-26 14:23:59	ELFrederich	mike18, yeah
2021-05-26 14:24:01	swensson	gordonjcp, yeah it got solved... Thanks a lot for the tip... It made everything so.... "simple" in the end:)  Huuuge upgrade
2021-05-26 14:24:06	ELFrederich	mike18, list(client.get_paginator(operation_name).paginate(**kwargs).search(search_expression))
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2021-05-26 14:24:47	mike18	ELFrederich: what does list(client.get_paginator(operation_name).paginate(**kwargs).search(search_expression)) ?
2021-05-26 14:24:54	mike18	is that for session.client?
2021-05-26 14:25:05	ELFrederich	client would be your boto3.client("s3")
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2021-05-26 14:25:11	mike18	yeah i use client
2021-05-26 14:25:23	swensson	Tho, I made a python script to export from DB into a .txt... Would have been better If I could skip this step but I'm not allowed to access the "Main DB" From this, so I guess I have to manually do this...
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2021-05-26 14:25:40	mike18	ELFrederich: thats a ls on the directory - and returns all files?
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2021-05-26 14:25:41	ELFrederich	mike18, operation_name is list_objects_v2, kwargs is what you'd normally pass directly to list_objects_v2, and then search_expression is what you want from the results.
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2021-05-26 14:26:56	mike18	ELFrederich: i have directories with pattern foo-debug/2021-05-01/ ... and want all files from dirs which are newer equal than foo-debug/2021-05-01/ ... e.g. foo-debug/2021-05-01/ foo-debug/2021-05-02/ foo-debug/2021-05-03/ etc...
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2021-05-26 14:28:32	mike18	ELFrederich: how would the search expr for that?
2021-05-26 14:28:34	ELFrederich	mike18, is foo-debug the name of the bucket?
2021-05-26 14:28:56	mike18	no the full path is s3://data/foo-debug/2021-05-01
2021-05-26 14:29:00	mike18	data is the bucket
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2021-05-26 14:30:04	ELFrederich	mike18, you'll probably first have to do a flat listing on data/foo-debug, then call list_objects_v2 for each directory that meets your criteria.
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2021-05-26 14:30:21	mike18	flat listing?
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2021-05-26 14:30:44	ELFrederich	mike18, non-recursive.  Hang on, let me set up an example and verify
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2021-05-26 14:30:56	mike18	i dont know the directories which are newer than prefix foo-debug/2021-05-01/ ...
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2021-05-26 14:31:19	ELFrederich	mike18, right, you'd have to list them and sort them
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2021-05-26 14:31:50	mike18	ELFrederich: see what i currnently do: https://bpaste.net/L4EQ
2021-05-26 14:31:59	mike18	i call a ls and than compare the key
2021-05-26 14:32:05	mike18	if match than download file
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2021-05-26 14:33:50	ELFrederich	mike18, is this for a one time thing?  You know the aws cli has "aws s3 sync"
2021-05-26 14:34:10	mike18	i need that file in memory
2021-05-26 14:34:12	ELFrederich	mike18, meaning... do you need to do this in Python.  Will it be part of some service, application, etc?
2021-05-26 14:34:17	mike18	and in pytyon
2021-05-26 14:34:24	mike18	i need python
2021-05-26 14:34:43	mike18	which is part of an application
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2021-05-26 14:34:55	mike18	so no aws s3 sync...
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2021-05-26 14:34:57	ELFrederich	mike18, k... gimmie 5 min to set up an exmaple for myself
2021-05-26 14:35:09	mike18	ok - but you understand what i build so far? :)
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2021-05-26 14:36:41	mike18	that func download_all takes a path e.g. s3://my-bucket/foo-debug/2021-05-01 with a prefix to match ... e.g. foo-debug/2021-05-01/ and downloads all files newer/equal than that prefix foo-debug/2021-05-01/ foo-debug/2021-05-02/ ...
2021-05-26 14:37:22	mike18	there are multiple files in s3://my-bucket/foo-debug/2021-05-01 or s3://my-bucket/foo-debug/2021-05-02 ...
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2021-05-26 14:43:07	ELFrederich	mike18, okay... got my example bucket set up.  The botocore repo has a bunch of directories with dates example like that.  So I just uploaded them all to a bucket
2021-05-26 14:43:17	mike18	oh ok
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2021-05-26 14:53:58	ELFrederich	mike18, folders = [result["Prefix"] for result in s3.get_paginator("list_objects_v2").paginate(Bucket=BUCKET_NAME, Delimiter="/").search("CommonPrefixes")]
2021-05-26 14:54:20	ELFrederich	mike18, that'll get you all the folders in that bucket
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2021-05-26 14:54:56	mike18	and than the files?
2021-05-26 14:55:04	mike18	 mean file names
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2021-05-26 14:55:43	mike18	than than need to check if files newer than target prefix?
2021-05-26 14:55:46	mike18	i mean folder
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2021-05-26 14:58:10	uhu	hello, can someone confirm that with this script only 1 connection to mysql is established and not a new connection is established for each execute. https://bpa.st/LQ7Q
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2021-05-26 14:58:55	ELFrederich	mike18, so you'll have to use re module to extract and compare dates I guess.  Let me add that to example
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2021-05-26 14:59:37	mike18	ELFrederich: and than download all files from the directories...
2021-05-26 14:59:38	slee	hi, i'm using a simple python http proxy which works fine...but i can't proxy https, is it possible with python http.server, socketserver?
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2021-05-26 15:00:12	ELFrederich	mike18, do disk or memory?
2021-05-26 15:00:17	mike18	memory
2021-05-26 15:00:20	Wulf	uhu: your code is vulnerable to sql injections. And you should use context managers.
2021-05-26 15:00:34	ELFrederich	mike18, may I ask why?
2021-05-26 15:00:44	mike18	ELFrederich: bc i email that files later
2021-05-26 15:01:31	mike18	thats why i put them in a list here:  https://bpaste.net/L4EQ
2021-05-26 15:01:45	uhu	wulf, this is a one-time update of parameters
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2021-05-26 15:02:06	Wulf	uhu: no excuses ;-)
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2021-05-26 15:02:37	uhu	Wulf: But that wasn't the question either :)
2021-05-26 15:03:23	Wulf	uhu: your code will open a new mysql connection for each call to your update function. And if you're unlucky, connections aren't closed
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2021-05-26 15:04:17	ELFrederich	mike18, depending on how many folders and files there are it might be more efficient to just list_objects_v2 on everything and just skip over the files you don't want.
2021-05-26 15:04:28	uhu	Wulf: what do i have to do so that only one connection is opened?
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2021-05-26 15:04:51	mike18	ELFrederich: you mean like it do it atm?
2021-05-26 15:04:57	Wulf	uhu: create the mysql connection outside of your function
2021-05-26 15:05:21	Wulf	uhu: with pymsql.connect(....) as db:  update(db); update(db); ...
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2021-05-26 15:05:37	nedbat	uhu: how often are you calling update?
2021-05-26 15:06:12	ELFrederich	mike18, if you do an API call to list the folders, then in Python filter the folders and only call list_objects_v2(Bucket=bucket_name, Prefix=folder_name) on the folder you're interested in... you're now making an API call per folder
2021-05-26 15:06:18	nedbat	uhu: if only once, then you are fine
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2021-05-26 15:06:56	ELFrederich	mike18, so if you're not ignoring that much stuff... it might be better to list absolutely every object in the bucket and in Python filter by the key.
2021-05-26 15:07:16	mike18	i ignore a lot of stuff
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2021-05-26 15:07:38	uhu	nedbat: 10 Mio
2021-05-26 15:07:46	ELFrederich	mike18, how many files are typically in each folder?
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2021-05-26 15:07:56	mike18	< 100
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2021-05-26 15:08:04	mike18	max 1000 i would say
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2021-05-26 15:08:23	Wulf	uhu: executing 10mio updates will be slow.
2021-05-26 15:08:25	nedbat	uhu: you run update() 10 million times? Or the loop on line 11 runs 10 million times?
2021-05-26 15:09:07	mike18	ELFrederich: but my list_objects_v2 is only called once here - no? https://bpaste.net/L4EQ ... you said i dont really need the ContinuationToken here?
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2021-05-26 15:09:46	uhu	nedbat Wulf: the file has 10 million entries, and for each entry a tcl query and then an update command
2021-05-26 15:10:29	nedbat	uhu: ok, i was asking about your update() function, which is called just once, right?  That means you are making just one database connection.
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2021-05-26 15:11:41	uhu	nedbat: yes i just want to establish a connection. at 10 million connections my mysql is paralyzed
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2021-05-26 15:12:15	nedbat	uhu: how are you making 10 million connections?
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2021-05-26 15:13:51	uhu	nedbat: no, not 10mio connections. 1 connection and 10 million sql update commands when connected is
2021-05-26 15:14:10	nedbat	uhu: yes, it will take a long time.  I would recommend doing this in batches.
2021-05-26 15:14:42	nedbat	uhu: are you certain that none of your data has single-quotes in it?
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2021-05-26 15:15:08	nedbat	uhu: but also, what is regexfilter doing?
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2021-05-26 15:15:20	uhu	netbat: that's a good idea, i could insert a sleep every 10k or so
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2021-05-26 15:15:36	nedbat	uhu: no, not a sleep: a commit
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2021-05-26 15:15:46	chilversc	uhu: if you have a transaction going, you want to batch it, because a transaction with 10 million updates tends to perform badly
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2021-05-26 15:16:11	nedbat	uhu: but why is Tcl in the mix here? that looks like it could be expensive.  what is it doing?
2021-05-26 15:16:16	chilversc	uhu: if you do not have transactions, then you might want to try a transaction as sometimes that can be faster than implicit transactions
2021-05-26 15:16:25	Wulf	instead of many small updates, perhaps a load data ... on duplicate key update ...
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2021-05-26 15:16:33	uhu	netbat: the section is determined based on the name on regexfilter
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2021-05-26 15:17:05	nedbat	uhu: can you show an example of one of your lines of data, and what you then need to change in the database?
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2021-05-26 15:18:08	uhu	nedbat: yes on qry
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2021-05-26 15:20:36	ELFrederich	mike18, https://bpa.st/DDZA
2021-05-26 15:21:02	ELFrederich	mike18, that's doing the up front filtering based on prefix.  Ignoring stuff older than the specified date
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2021-05-26 15:22:30	mike18	ok whats line 17?
2021-05-26 15:25:20	mike18	also cant i use string compare to compare the folder name? e.g. foo-debug/2021-05-02 to be newer than foo-debug/2021-05-01 ?
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2021-05-26 15:25:21	ELFrederich	mike18, https://bpa.st/ZLXA
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2021-05-26 15:26:26	ELFrederich	mike18, I wouldn't depend on string compare.  Personal preference.  But you could.  I like to explicitly ignore folders which don't exactly match that format.  What is some folder called 000 shows up or 999?
2021-05-26 15:26:38	mike18	ok
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2021-05-26 15:27:03	ELFrederich	mike18, it's a bit defensive, but I've been bit way too many times.  I know if I were to use string compare someone will dump some stupid named folders in there ;-)
2021-05-26 15:27:05	nedbat	chilversc, ELFrederich, mike18: don't forget to join us in іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt.  we'll be more active there
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2021-05-26 15:27:31	ELFrederich	nedbat, that have to do w/ the Freenode stuff I got messaged about last week?
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2021-05-26 15:27:35	mike18	ok
2021-05-26 15:27:39	nedbat	ELFrederich: yes
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2021-05-26 15:28:09	ELFrederich	nedbat, I see that and I think of Liberia
2021-05-26 15:28:21	mike18	ELFrederich: looking at my old code https://bpaste.net/L4EQ - does that func correctly need that ContinuationToken here?
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2021-05-26 15:29:07	ELFrederich	hmm... I use HexChat because I'm not cool enough to have ever learned irssi.  In my Network List I see a "LibraIRC", I'm guessing that's different
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2021-05-26 15:30:03	ELFrederich	mike18, you don't need a ContinuationToken if you use a paginator
2021-05-26 15:30:22	mike18	but as it is now it need that ContinuationToken right?
2021-05-26 15:31:12	ELFrederich	mike18, easy fix... let me do it real quick in there for you
2021-05-26 15:31:20	mike18	ok
2021-05-26 15:31:32	kosh	ELFrederich, it is pretty easy to just add a new entry with the stuff on the libera.chat webpage
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2021-05-26 15:32:48	ELFrederich	mike18, https://bpa.st/ETFQ
2021-05-26 15:33:09	mike18	looks much cleaner to me!
2021-05-26 15:33:16	mike18	thx ELFrederich
2021-05-26 15:33:16	ELFrederich	mike18, basically un-indented your "for obj in" loop, and removed your "while True" and your try/except
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2021-05-26 15:36:35	ELFrederich	kosh, not so easy is to get your company to whitelist an IRC server.
2021-05-26 15:36:54	kosh	ELFrederich, yeah that I can understand
2021-05-26 15:37:07	kosh	ELFrederich, there is just no viable way to remain on this server
2021-05-26 15:37:14	kosh	they destroyed almost 1000 channels last night
2021-05-26 15:37:18	ELFrederich	kosh, to connect to freenode I have to user a socks5 proxy
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2021-05-26 15:39:24	ByteChanger	Can someone help me tweak a script?  Currently the script iterates thru a list, and prompts you to append the current group to a master list.
2021-05-26 15:39:52	ByteChanger	I don't want it to prompt me... Just create a new file for each group it encounters...
2021-05-26 15:40:30	mike18	ELFrederich: what will happen if that directory doesnt exist?
2021-05-26 15:40:48	ByteChanger	This is the part that iterates thru the query: https://bpa.st/JEIQ
2021-05-26 15:40:49	ELFrederich	mike18, what directory?
2021-05-26 15:41:00	mike18	for the for obj in s3.get_paginator("list_objects_v2").paginate(**kwargs).search("Contents"):
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2021-05-26 15:41:46	ELFrederich	ByteChanger, comment out line 4, add a new line that says inputchar = "y" right below it
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2021-05-26 15:43:02	ELFrederich	mike18, not sure what you mean by directory.  kwargs has a Bucket and Prefix in it.  I'm assuming you got that Bucket and Prefix from somewhere
2021-05-26 15:43:02	mike18	@ELFrederich it told me that obj["Key"] is None... in my exist func: https://pastebin.com/2L95EWGV
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2021-05-26 15:44:05	ELFrederich	mike18, print(repr(obj))
2021-05-26 15:44:41	ByteChanger	ELFrederich: Thanks.  That will help for sure!  But I also need to create a new outfile for the current group or 'query'...  I tried outfile = query.  But that didn't work.
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2021-05-26 15:47:40	mike18	ELFrederich: dont see the print: https://pastebin.com/zvppLhge
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2021-05-26 15:48:58	kosh	ELFrederich, I would not count on some of these channels continuing to exist just so you know
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2021-05-26 15:49:19	kosh	ELFrederich, https://pythondiscord.com/   that may be an alternative for you
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2021-05-26 15:49:28	kosh	that is the official python discord
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2021-05-26 15:50:11	Tashtari	I'm only staying here until all of the channels I'm in confirm they're moving
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2021-05-26 15:50:28	mike18	ELFrederich: yeah i see it now obj = None....
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2021-05-26 15:51:44	ELFrederich	kosh, actually I'm trying to connect from my personal home machine and I cat "Disconnected (Connection reset by peer)"
2021-05-26 15:52:05	kosh	Tashtari, tell them NOT to put a notice in the topic that they are moving to libera.chat because that will get the channel automatically destroyed
2021-05-26 15:52:13	Tashtari	Yeah, I know.
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2021-05-26 15:53:04	kosh	ELFrederich, should be irc.libera.chat port 6697 and use tls
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2021-05-26 15:56:56	sybariten	Tashtari: that's an elegant solution, thanks man I will try that. (https://bpa.st/3KGQ) I don't have so much experience with try/catch so i didntr directly see how to integrate it with an if/else clause
2021-05-26 15:57:10	Tashtari	It takes some getting used to.
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2021-05-26 16:08:10	sybariten	Yep. Okay, well it worked fine Tashtari, merci!
2021-05-26 16:08:16	Tashtari	_o>
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2021-05-26 16:12:24	sybariten	Okay so my "pylint" that is happening on a school server is definitely complaining about things that i don't see in my VS Code but it would be very nice to be able to be alerted a bit earlier so i don't have to go through the remote linting (?) stage to see that
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2021-05-26 16:13:34	sybariten	All i can see in details from the log is "*.py using pylint" - is it probable i could set up the same in Visual Studio Code?
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2021-05-26 16:16:21	rasenqan	-server notice- All references to libera.chat is now subject to network-wide ban (k-line)!
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2021-05-26 16:18:12	frrs	rasenqan: pretty sure you're not the server notice courier ;)
2021-05-26 16:18:33	gordonjcp	rasenqan: haha, no
2021-05-26 16:18:34	greyblue9	well i'm convinced
2021-05-26 16:18:48	gordonjcp	rasenqan: libera.chat is a far superior network
2021-05-26 16:18:54	gordonjcp	rasenqan: come at me, bitch
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2021-05-26 16:19:49	greyblue9	silence
2021-05-26 16:20:19	gordonjcp	yup
2021-05-26 16:20:21	kosh	that would definitely prove before any shadow of a doubt that freedom of speed is not a thing here but I am pretty sure that person is just a troll
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2021-05-26 16:20:45	kosh	because that is not the nick that person uses
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2021-05-26 16:20:55	Tashtari	"Freedom of Speed" sounds like it belongs in a Mazda commercial
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2021-05-26 16:21:09	greyblue9	or a back alley somewhere
2021-05-26 16:21:14	kosh	speech
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2021-05-26 16:21:49	gordonjcp	Tashtari: like Toyota Optimal DRive
2021-05-26 16:21:59	gordonjcp	Tashtari: I was disappointed in that
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2021-05-26 16:22:29	gordonjcp	I thought it was going to be a button that I pushed that would refill my coffee, vapourise the slow cars in front and put Led Zeppelin on the stereo
2021-05-26 16:22:30	kosh	primitive combustion vehicles
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2021-05-26 16:30:41	greyblue9	sybariten: could you provide some specifics
2021-05-26 16:31:05	sybariten	is pylint something i typically install globally (as in into python), or is it more specifically installed for an IDE (like vs code or emacs)
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2021-05-26 16:31:42	frrs	Have you checked pylint's documentation, sybariten?
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2021-05-26 16:32:26	sybariten	greyblue9: huh we wrote at the same time. So i'm submitting code to a school server and they have a linting system, as i guess it's called. It's checking the code against pylint, and i get some errors. I don't really catch the same errors inside my IDE though so it would be nice to have the same linting already there. I'm using VS Code
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2021-05-26 16:33:02	greyblue9	https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/linting#_pylint
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2021-05-26 16:33:18	greyblue9	see if that gets you what you need
2021-05-26 16:33:24	sybariten	to make things more complicated, i'm using VS Code on Win but working against a Ubuntu machine.... and to my surprise it seems as if in that case, VS Code actuallly installs extensions also on the linux side. I thought it was a filesystem connection only and all intelligence would be on the Win side
2021-05-26 16:33:32	sybariten	greyblue9: will check, thanks
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2021-05-26 16:34:29	greyblue9	you are saying your sources are remote
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2021-05-26 16:35:40	sybariten	greyblue9: file sources yes
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2021-05-26 16:40:30	sybariten	Generally speaking, on the linux side: if pylint appears to exist as a package through apt, is it better to install it that way or through pip?
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2021-05-26 16:41:42	mefistofeles	sybariten: the recommended way (at least around here) is to use virtual environments, so that would work better with pip. But if you want to have it in your system packages, then sure... use apt
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2021-05-26 16:42:02	sybariten	mefistofeles:couldnt hurt anyhow, could it?
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2021-05-26 16:43:29	greyblue9	if you install with pip it probably would end up in /usr/local whereas going through apt it would be in /usr, I think
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2021-05-26 16:43:53	mefistofeles	pip with sudo/admin capabilities is commonly a bad idea, fwiw
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2021-05-26 16:44:52	greyblue9	agreed
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2021-05-26 16:45:31	sybariten	okay
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2021-05-26 16:46:39	ChrisWarrick	s/commonly/always/
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2021-05-26 16:50:59	Tashtari	By the way, according to https://www.pound-python.org the decision on moving the channel has been made... we probably should be directing people there.
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2021-05-26 16:53:52	xsx	i'm quite disappointed regarding ASGI spec. Seems like there is almost none ASGI-spec compatible frameworks. Most of them fail to do `app = nextapp(app)` or they don't provide ASGI Middleware interface. Am I missing something? I used to use Starlette/FastAPI and I was expecting that any other ASGI framework would allow to integrate my middlewares/apps
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2021-05-26 17:01:47	kosh	Tashtari, we have been directing people there but we can't change the channel topic to show that
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2021-05-26 17:02:17	kosh	Tashtari, last night about 700 channels where destroyed because they directed people to libera in their topics
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2021-05-26 17:03:04	Tashtari	I know, I just hadn't seen it mentioned recently...
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2021-05-26 17:06:53	KirkMcDonald	 27
2021-05-26 17:06:59	KirkMcDonald	Ack, I need to stop doing that.
2021-05-26 17:07:07	catbeard	go.py
2021-05-26 17:07:19	catbeard	then /help key
2021-05-26 17:07:37	catbeard	it autocompletes too
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2021-05-26 17:07:54	catbeard	i map it custom because i'm spoiled by slack
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2021-05-26 17:43:01	pbryan	Since #python channel on Libera.Chat has been established, what's the future of this channel?
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2021-05-26 17:44:51	SnoopJ	pbryan, details are in the pound-python link in /topic, but the tl;dr is that Libera is the new official spot
2021-05-26 17:46:17	pbryan	SnoopJ: Thanks. Did see the /topic, but it's a bit terse on the subject.
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2021-05-26 17:46:41	Nei	it's not legally possible to be more explicit
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2021-05-26 17:46:50	SnoopJ	That is not true
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2021-05-26 17:47:10	Gudddu	Could someone please tell me why I am not able to add a radiobutton dynamically when the on_mode_button callback is called?
2021-05-26 17:47:10	Gudddu	https://dpaste.org/rDrp
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2021-05-26 17:50:09	catbeard	 /alias add libera /eval /command -buffer irc.server.libera irc /join ${channel} ; /eval /wait 2s /command -buffer irc.libera.${channel} core /buffer merge irc.freenode.${channel}
2021-05-26 17:50:12	catbeard	/allchan /libera
2021-05-26 17:50:20	catbeard	for the weechat users
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2021-05-26 18:00:05	greentree47	is there a way to cache a value returned from a function
2021-05-26 18:00:16	greentree47	like some slick library decorator or i guess stuff it into some expiringdict obj
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2021-05-26 18:01:18	KirkMcDonald	greentree47: functools has various things.
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2021-05-26 18:01:49	greentree47	is it specific to >3.7?
2021-05-26 18:02:45	KirkMcDonald	greentree47: No.
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2021-05-26 18:03:24	DyingFreenode	a
2021-05-26 18:03:26	DyingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░▀█▀░░░░█▀█░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█▀█░█▀█░█▀▄░█▀▀
2021-05-26 18:03:29	DyingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░░█░░░░░█▀▀░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█░█░█░█░█░█░█▀▀
2021-05-26 18:03:32	DyingFreenode	░▀░▀░▀░░▀▀▀░▀░░▀░░░▀░░░░▀░░░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀░░▀▀▀
2021-05-26 18:03:35	mefistofeles	oh noes...
2021-05-26 18:03:35	DyingFreenode	.
2021-05-26 18:03:37	mefistofeles	this again
2021-05-26 18:03:37	DyingFreenode	██████╗    ██╗   ██████╗     ███████╗██████╗ ███████╗███████╗███╗   ██╗ ██████╗ ██████╗ ███████╗
2021-05-26 18:03:41	DyingFreenode	██╔══██╗   ██║   ██╔══██╗    ██╔════╝██╔══██╗██╔════╝██╔════╝████╗  ██║██╔═══██╗██╔══██╗██╔════╝
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2021-05-26 18:03:45	DyingFreenode	██████╔╝   ██║   ██████╔╝    █████╗  ██████╔╝█████╗  █████╗  ██╔██╗ ██║██║   ██║██║  ██║█████╗
2021-05-26 18:03:51	DyingFreenode	██╔══██╗   ██║   ██╔═══╝     ██╔══╝  ██╔══██╗██╔══╝  ██╔══╝  ██║╚██╗██║██║   ██║██║  ██║██╔══╝
2021-05-26 18:03:55	DyingFreenode	██║  ██║██╗██║██╗██║██╗      ██║     ██║  ██║███████╗███████╗██║ ╚████║╚██████╔╝██████╔╝███████╗
2021-05-26 18:03:59	DyingFreenode	╚═╝  ╚═╝╚═╝╚═╝╚═╝╚═╝╚═╝      ╚═╝     ╚═╝  ╚═╝╚══════╝╚══════╝╚═╝  ╚═══╝ ╚═════╝ ╚═════╝ ╚══════╝
2021-05-26 18:04:03	DyingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░▀█▀░░░░█▀█░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█▀█░█▀█░█▀▄░█▀▀
2021-05-26 18:04:06	DyingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░░█░░░░░█▀▀░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█░█░█░█░█░█░█▀▀
2021-05-26 18:04:09	DyingFreenode	░▀░▀░▀░░▀▀▀░▀░░▀░░░▀░░░░▀░░░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀░░▀▀▀
2021-05-26 18:04:12	DyingFreenode	.
2021-05-26 18:04:14	DyingFreenode	██████╗    ██╗   ██████╗     ███████╗██████╗ ███████╗███████╗███╗   ██╗ ██████╗ ██████╗ ███████╗
2021-05-26 18:04:20	DyingFreenode	██╔══██╗   ██║   ██╔══██╗    ██╔════╝██╔══██╗██╔════╝██╔════╝████╗  ██║██╔═══██╗██╔══██╗██╔════╝
2021-05-26 18:04:21	--	Mode #python [+o KirkMcDonald] by ChanServ
2021-05-26 18:04:23	krosisnua	What's this shit?
2021-05-26 18:04:24	DyingFreenode	██████╔╝   ██║   ██████╔╝    █████╗  ██████╔╝█████╗  █████╗  ██╔██╗ ██║██║   ██║██║  ██║█████╗
2021-05-26 18:04:28	--	Mode #python [+b *!*LeavFreen@gateway/tor-sasl/leavfreenode] by KirkMcDonald
2021-05-26 18:04:28	<--	KirkMcDonald has kicked DyingFreenode (DyingFreenode)
2021-05-26 18:04:38	krosisnua	Thanks!
2021-05-26 18:04:39	<--	nvmd (~nvmd@177.30.111.232) has quit (Quit: Later nerds.)
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2021-05-26 18:05:00	mefistofeles	krosisnua: btw, consider going to Libera irc.libera.chat
2021-05-26 18:05:12	<--	wyclif (~wyclif@unaffiliated/wyclif) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:05:23	--	Mode #python [-o KirkMcDonald] by KirkMcDonald
2021-05-26 18:05:37	greentree47	is there a policy about whether other irc servers are allowed to be discussed jw
2021-05-26 18:05:58	SnoopJ	greentree47, it's fine in this channel. Network administration seem to be...unfriendly...towards it
2021-05-26 18:06:00	mefistofeles	greentree47: I think it was already discussed byt the people in charge of the IRC channels
2021-05-26 18:06:09	-->	cousteau (~cousteau@unaffiliated/cousteau) has joined #python
2021-05-26 18:07:13	greentree47	is this particular channel taking a stance on migrating / bridging comms between the two etc?
2021-05-26 18:07:24	krosisnua	If you don't mind me asking for a moment, what's Libera? Another irc?
2021-05-26 18:07:42	<--	dav1d (~dav1d@volt/developer/dav1d) has left #python ("bye")
2021-05-26 18:07:43	habnabit_	krosisnua, see https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-26 18:07:50	krosisnua	thanks
2021-05-26 18:07:52	cousteau	yes... there's been a big deal in the last week or so
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2021-05-26 18:08:34	krosisnua	Oh okay cool - honestly I just installed an irc client today, never used one before
2021-05-26 18:08:39	krosisnua	so this is new to me
2021-05-26 18:08:42	<--	moldorcoder7 (~moldorcod@206.166.251.59) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:08:43	cousteau	oh nice!
2021-05-26 18:08:57	<--	mike18 (~geri@71-220-52-187.mpls.qwest.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 18:08:58	SnoopJ	Same experience, but your client talks to different servers, basically
2021-05-26 18:09:25	krosisnua	Funnily enough - I was interested due to the Pirate Bay documentary (the guys mentioned meeting in an irc, and I wanted to try it lol)
2021-05-26 18:09:29	cousteau	you mean "same experience than with other IM software"?
2021-05-26 18:09:56	SnoopJ	greentree47, haven't heard anything about bridging, but word is that the other server is now the official home. This channel may stay here, but it's hard to read the crystal ball right now, the situation is if anything more volatile than it was last week...
2021-05-26 18:10:08	cousteau	well, you just came in one week before there was a mass migration from this server to another one after 20 years or so
2021-05-26 18:10:36	<--	ov3rmind (~over0-07@unaffiliated/ov3rmind) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:10:48	krosisnua	haha nice one, at least it's an interesting time to join  - why the migration? Is freenode no longer being maintained?
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2021-05-26 18:10:50	cousteau	SnoopJ: someone suggested making it the official channel for python 3 and leave this for python 2 :P
2021-05-26 18:10:59	greentree47	yikes
2021-05-26 18:11:50	cousteau	krosisnua: there was a lot of bureaucratic drama and all former staff (who are volunteers) didn't like the new management and quit en masse
2021-05-26 18:11:58	cousteau	and moved to a new network
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2021-05-26 18:13:23	krosisnua	Oh dear - sounds like a pain in the hole. Is there a date that this channel is going to close?
2021-05-26 18:13:38	krosisnua	I'll probably go to the other one then I guess
2021-05-26 18:14:08	cousteau	the new owner has been basically closing every channel that even dared mentioned moving to the other network (so people who frequent those channels will never know what actually happened, since there will be no one to tell them to move to the new network)
2021-05-26 18:14:11	-->	vimart (~vimart@148.252.129.101) has joined #python
2021-05-26 18:14:33	cousteau	so, to answer your last question: pretty much when the new management decides to close this channel
2021-05-26 18:14:44	cousteau	but it could continue existing indefinitely
2021-05-26 18:15:08	cousteau	IRC channels are like that: whoever first goes to an unregistered channel, claims it
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2021-05-26 18:16:07	cousteau	for example I just created the channel #cousteau-is-the-best by typing   /join #cousteau-is-the-best   and now that channel exists and I automatically became the admin
2021-05-26 18:16:48	<--	appinv (~appinv@unaffiliated/appinventormu) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:16:55	krosisnua	That is so dope
2021-05-26 18:17:08	krosisnua	gonna make a #memes channel if it doesn't exist already
2021-05-26 18:17:16	stealth_	freenode = "What one should really fear is not a competent enemy, but an incompetent ally."
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2021-05-26 18:17:54	cousteau	stealth_: and that's why this is scary :)
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2021-05-26 18:18:26	cousteau	there are (or at least were) channels for almost everything
2021-05-26 18:18:33	Peng	cousteau: Now change the topic to say you've moved to Libera and wait for death. :>
2021-05-26 18:18:54	cousteau	it didn't go as far as with subreddits but close
2021-05-26 18:19:02	cousteau	Peng: lol you think I wasn't tempted to?
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2021-05-26 18:19:26	cousteau	also that would mean automatically having a permanently registered channel stating that I am the best
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2021-05-26 18:20:44	cousteau	hm, is this channel for registered users only?
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2021-05-26 18:20:51	cousteau	the other one is...
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2021-05-26 18:22:41	Yhg1s	cousteau: yes, #python has been that way for a long time.
2021-05-26 18:23:28	cousteau	ok.  Didn't know because I had this network set to auto-identify and not the other
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2021-05-26 18:54:48	cryocaustik	I keep seeing the msg about "all references to libera.chat are now subject to network-wide ban", but has anyone actually been banned today?
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2021-05-26 18:56:44	cryocaustik	wonder if the ban hammer simply has too much work today...
2021-05-26 18:56:58	SnoopJ	cryocaustik, if you are referring to messages in channels by a user named rasenqan, I'm pretty sure that's a fake/spammer.
2021-05-26 18:57:04	Yhg1s	cryocaustik: the message you're getting is probably fake, but there is a lot going on with admins on freenode, yes.
2021-05-26 18:57:10	Yhg1s	cryocaustik: see pound-python.org.
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2021-05-26 18:57:41	cryocaustik	ah, thanks!
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2021-05-26 19:02:48	mkbloke	#go-nuts has moved now after temporarily getting hit, apparently, due to mention on Libera in the topic, so now they've just pasted a link in the topic instead, which is: https://bit.ly/34nEAV4
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2021-05-26 19:05:35	mkbloke	*mention of Libera
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2021-05-26 19:06:40	maxtimbo	(not really a python question, but I'm writing my calculator in python...) how would you denote Resistance without using the omega symbol?
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2021-05-26 19:06:59	SnoopJ	R, usually
2021-05-26 19:07:28	maxtimbo	Sounds right. It just look weird if I were to say 5kR
2021-05-26 19:07:42	Yhg1s	or you could just use Ω?
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2021-05-26 19:07:46	maxtimbo	for example...
2021-05-26 19:07:53	Yhg1s	mkbloke: the same thing as we did here, then.
2021-05-26 19:08:04	SnoopJ	maxtimbo, oh, as a unit? just spell out "ohm"
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2021-05-26 19:08:10	SnoopJ	k-ohm is perfectly meaningful imo
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2021-05-26 19:08:27	maxtimbo	right, that's the way I have it now
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2021-05-26 19:09:40	maxtimbo	I'm writing an ohms law calculator. Everything else makes sense: mA, kV, mW, etc... but mR just looks strange to me. mohm doesn't look right either...
2021-05-26 19:09:59	cousteau	maxtimbo: usually you use R as a unit, or K, M, etc
2021-05-26 19:10:05	cousteau	as a unit AND a decimal point
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2021-05-26 19:10:52	Aaron	nice
2021-05-26 19:11:00	SnoopJ	as a unit, 'R' isn't any standard I recognize (I thought the question was about a variable name)
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2021-05-26 19:11:02	cousteau	like 2R7 to mean 2.7 ohm, or 2K7 to mean 2.7 kOhm
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2021-05-26 19:11:44	mkbloke	Yhg1s: yeah, so I see now...
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2021-05-26 19:11:57	cousteau	SnoopJ: well I've seen it used that way.  Probably because R means resistance so it seemed fit
2021-05-26 19:11:59	maxtimbo	SnoopJ, my vars are i, e, p, r... yes
2021-05-26 19:12:10	cousteau	just (kinda) like how V is Voltage or Volts
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2021-05-26 19:12:35	cousteau	maxtimbo: waht about w? it looks like a lowercase omega
2021-05-26 19:12:38	cousteau	or o?
2021-05-26 19:12:47	cousteau	no wait, w would be watts
2021-05-26 19:13:02	maxtimbo	I'm looking for user input with this question
2021-05-26 19:13:12	cousteau	does O look ok?
2021-05-26 19:13:15	SnoopJ	watts is a capital W, but it's a good example of how confusible choices outside SI can be
2021-05-26 19:13:21	cousteau	Ohm is a common substitute for Ω
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2021-05-26 19:13:44	cousteau	like 2.7 Ohm, 2.7 kOhm, etc
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2021-05-26 19:13:56	maxtimbo	yeah, I think i'll go ohm, but capital o... that actually makes a lot of sense
2021-05-26 19:13:59	cousteau	units don't HAVE to be a single letter
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2021-05-26 19:14:24	cousteau	if you want it to be single letter you could make it O but then it'll look like a zero and it'll be weird
2021-05-26 19:14:48	maxtimbo	yeah, that wouldn't work. seems confusing
2021-05-26 19:14:51	cousteau	qalculate supports "Ohm" "ohm" and "Ω"
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2021-05-26 19:15:33	maxtimbo	that's not a bad idea... fuzzy definitions... volt, V, voltage for example
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2021-05-26 19:15:35	cousteau	...do you plan to support temperature units as well?  because if you do, be advised that you're gonna see some crazy stuff
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2021-05-26 19:15:48	maxtimbo	not... yet lol
2021-05-26 19:16:16	cousteau	I actually had a "heated discussion" with the qalculate developer about this
2021-05-26 19:16:21	maxtimbo	this is just a side project to play with code and hammer in the formulas of Ohm's Law
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2021-05-26 19:16:32	cousteau	(not really heated, but I couldn't miss that pun)
2021-05-26 19:16:34	maxtimbo	lmao
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2021-05-26 19:16:48	maxtimbo	imma need you to cool it, bud
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2021-05-26 19:17:06	SnoopJ	cheeky answer: V/A
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2021-05-26 19:17:39	cousteau	like:  10°C = 50°F, 10°C + 10°C = 20°C = 68°F, but 50°F + 50°F = 100°F
2021-05-26 19:17:54	cousteau	my solution?  implement a RIDICULOUSLY CRAZY thing
2021-05-26 19:18:01	cousteau	...it was in python, in fact
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2021-05-26 19:18:33	SnoopJ	cousteau, what's the problem there?
2021-05-26 19:18:37	cousteau	anyway, when I suggested my approach to the Qalculate developers they didn't like it, pointing out a corner case I hadn't considered
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2021-05-26 19:19:02	cousteau	SnoopJ: temperature scales are inconsistent with "classic" arithmetic and will do weird things
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2021-05-26 19:19:17	cousteau	so conversion will be weird
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2021-05-26 19:19:27	SnoopJ	those scales are both perfectly consistent with arithmetic, they just have different unit sizes
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2021-05-26 19:19:46	cousteau	like, is 10°C + 10°C converted to °F = 100°F or 68°F?  well, it depends
2021-05-26 19:19:53	SnoopJ	the latter is incorrect
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2021-05-26 19:19:57	maxtimbo	yeah, forgive my ignorance, but i don't understand the problem
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2021-05-26 19:20:07	cousteau	SnoopJ: how so?  20°C is 68°F
2021-05-26 19:20:23	cousteau	0°C is 32°F
2021-05-26 19:20:48	SnoopJ	oops, I did get that backwards didn't I
2021-05-26 19:20:53	maxtimbo	wouldn't you take the sum of C and then convert it to F?
2021-05-26 19:21:00	cousteau	not sure... neither of them is quite correct
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2021-05-26 19:21:37	cousteau	maxtimbo: kinda, yes... but it's hard to handle
2021-05-26 19:21:44	SnoopJ	temp_f = 9/5*(temp_c) + 32
2021-05-26 19:21:52	cousteau	for example if you have 10°C + 50°F what do you get?
2021-05-26 19:22:15	SnoopJ	d_temp_f = tf2 - tf1 = 9/5*(d_temp_c) = 9/5*(tc2 - tc1)
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2021-05-26 19:22:34	SnoopJ	(i.e. the size of 1 degree is different between them)
2021-05-26 19:22:45	maxtimbo	I see the problem now
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2021-05-26 19:22:59	cousteau	(a) 10°C + 50°F = 10°C + 10°C = 20°C = 68°F
2021-05-26 19:23:38	cousteau	(b) 10°C + 50°F = 50°F + 50°F = 100°F = 37.7778°C
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2021-05-26 19:24:26	cousteau	short answer is "you can't add temperatures" (but you can add temperature differences, or a temperature and a temperature difference)
2021-05-26 19:24:45	SnoopJ	yea, (b) is wrong and the mistake is subtle: it confuses a value on a scale for a difference on that scale
2021-05-26 19:24:52	cousteau	and "10°C" might mean "10°C above the freezing point of water" or "a temperature difference of 10°C"
2021-05-26 19:25:12	cousteau	SnoopJ: how do you know b is the wrong one and not a?
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2021-05-26 19:25:31	SnoopJ	cousteau, because of the above formula
2021-05-26 19:25:50	SnoopJ	cousteau, if you want a "mathy" explanation of why, it's because the scales don't have a common zero
2021-05-26 19:26:24	cousteau	SnoopJ: indeed.  And putting that "don't have a common zero" concept into programming terms was crazy as hell
2021-05-26 19:26:34	maxtimbo	#python never disappoints for a good conversation
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2021-05-26 19:27:34	cousteau	maxtimbo: fortunately for you, most of the time (in particular for electrical units) you won't have to deal with this nonsense of "scales with arbitrary zeros"
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2021-05-26 19:27:56	SnoopJ	cousteau, why crazy? The above formula is pretty straightforward
2021-05-26 19:28:06	cousteau	which one?
2021-05-26 19:28:28	cousteau	the one to convert °F to °C?
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2021-05-26 19:28:41	maxtimbo	well, true. but I do have to deal with metric versus imperial units, which is another function of my little calculator i'll explore later
2021-05-26 19:28:46	cousteau	because you could have used the other formula that converts °C to °F instead
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2021-05-26 19:29:26	cousteau	maxtimbo: also fortunately for you, imperial units are defined in terms of metric units, e.g. 1 inch is defined as 0.0254 m (exactly)
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2021-05-26 19:30:01	cousteau	but alas, some imperial/customary units are ambiguous (is 1 pint = 16 floz or 20?)
2021-05-26 19:30:08	maxtimbo	that is very true. we americans are living in a great big lie covered by the facade of imperial units
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2021-05-26 19:31:15	cousteau	the only drawback of metric units was to choose the gram as the base for naming mass units instead of the kilogram (the thing we now know as kilogram, I mean)
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2021-05-26 19:32:45	IanLiu	cousteau: kilogram is the metric unit, not gram
2021-05-26 19:32:54	cousteau	the SI unit
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2021-05-26 19:33:42	cousteau	but there are other systems based on the metric system
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2021-05-26 19:34:09	cousteau	afaik, the so called "metric system" is the one where you strip the prefixes, so "meter", "gram", "second"
2021-05-26 19:34:41	cousteau	there's also m-kg-s (the SI) and cm-g-s ("CGS")
2021-05-26 19:35:14	cousteau	but the original unit was the g, not the kg
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2021-05-26 19:41:05	IanLiu	Is it possible to return the "self" type of a generic class? Something like class Foo(Generic[A]): with a method def foo(self, x: B) -> "Self[B]": ?
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2021-05-26 19:43:32	dbear	any sqlalchemists here?
2021-05-26 19:43:43	dbear	looking for help with sqlalchemy and an oracle error
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2021-05-26 19:44:39	dbear	I have perfectly good oracle sql that works but when I using a sqlalchemy engine to run the statement it bombs with the horrible message the the sql is not properly terminated
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2021-05-26 19:56:58	habnabit_	IanLiu, 'self' wouldn't be the generic version.. it would be whatever the generic type has been parameterized to form
2021-05-26 19:57:22	habnabit_	IanLiu, i'm not sure there's a way to use HKT in python typing
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2021-05-26 20:00:13	IanLiu	habnabit_: hmmmm, found an open issue for HKT
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2021-05-26 20:00:48	IanLiu	doesn't seem to have gained much attention
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2021-05-26 20:01:07	habnabit_	IanLiu, you can represent a lot of things without it
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2021-05-26 20:20:58	jj27	https://bpa.st/55UQ --- Having an issue where a sqlite execute with params is returning that I'm only providing 11 of the 16 parameter bindings specified, but all 16 I'm passing are valid and non-blank.  Maybe an issue with some of them being date related?
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2021-05-26 20:22:22	shrysr_	the url in the topic says the offical channel is on the libera network, but isnt this chan.. on freenode?
2021-05-26 20:22:44	catbeard	yes
2021-05-26 20:22:48	nedbat	shrysr_: things are in flux, we're in both places, but libera will likely be more active
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2021-05-26 20:24:06	shrysr_	i was able to join the other chans that moved to libera with /join #, but not python, which is why i asked. i. is there a limit to the number of chans you can be on via weecha
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2021-05-26 20:24:42	nedbat	jj27: that is a strange error
2021-05-26 20:24:47	catbeard	no just the server
2021-05-26 20:24:52	catbeard	 /alias add libera /eval /command -buffer irc.server.libera irc /join ${channel} ; /eval /wait 2s /command -buffer irc.libera.${channel} core /buffer merge irc.freenode.${channel}
2021-05-26 20:24:54	catbeard	/allchan /libera
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2021-05-26 20:25:51	jj27	nedbat: agree, it's very confusing since everything regarding the output looks good, but sqlite is pissed.
2021-05-26 20:26:26	nedbat	jj27: are you sure you are running the right code? Did you change the source file, but didn't restart the application?
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2021-05-26 20:27:54	jj27	nedbat: Yep. Running straight from VS Code's "Run current script in terminal" option.
2021-05-26 20:28:21	nedbat	jj27: i wold try running the program from a terminal just to be sure
2021-05-26 20:28:33	jj27	I also tried that, unfortunately.  directly from terminal
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2021-05-26 20:29:37	stealth_	jj27, "insert into vpn_tunnels values ..."
2021-05-26 20:29:37	nedbat	jj27: do those values look like the right ones?
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2021-05-26 20:29:59	nedbat	jj27: stealth_ has a good suggestion
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2021-05-26 20:30:39	nedbat	hmm, maybe not
2021-05-26 20:30:47	shrysr_	aha catbeard i had to register my nick. worked fine.
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2021-05-26 20:31:43	jj27	stealth_: the problem with that is I have an auto-increment primary key column as well that I do not need to specify, so w/o specifying the column names it errors saying there are 17 columns but only 16 were supplied.
2021-05-26 20:31:44	catbeard	:)
2021-05-26 20:31:51	jj27	unless you know a way around that.
2021-05-26 20:32:17	stealth_	jj27, add `None` for pk
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2021-05-26 20:33:28	stealth_	jj27, also whats up with `.write()`? it should be `.execute()`
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2021-05-26 20:34:03	jj27	stealth_: db is an object referencing a class I wrote for DB related functions. my db.write() essentially ise an execute() of sqlite
2021-05-26 20:34:33	jj27	I added `None` literally with the ticks and it said None is not a column.
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2021-05-26 20:35:07	jj27	I tried `id` which is teh column name and ti said id is not a column either. why does it hate me so much :-P
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2021-05-26 20:35:47	stealth_	jj27, i get that it can be frustrating but once you do it few time it gets easier
2021-05-26 20:36:08	jj27	gotta run to dinner..be back in a few. appreciate you guys looking into it and offering suggestions.
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2021-05-26 20:40:05	stealth_	jj27, when you get back try this https://bpa.st/CC3Q
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2021-05-26 21:03:27	Nickssen	Hi friends, i'm new.. Is it possible to use Numpy on visual studio code?
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2021-05-26 21:04:24	nedbat	Nickssen: yes
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2021-05-26 21:05:01	nedbat	Nickssen: are you having trouble with it?
2021-05-26 21:05:02	Nickssen	I have installed anaconda and the Jupyter extension as well, nedbat.
2021-05-26 21:05:08	Nickssen	But I don't know whats left to do
2021-05-26 21:05:49	Nickssen	Do I need something else?
2021-05-26 21:06:11	BrenBarn	Did you try just doing what you want to do and seeing if it works?
2021-05-26 21:06:13	nedbat	Nickssen: i don't understand. now you write code that uses numpy, and you run it.  does that work?
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2021-05-26 21:07:27	Nickssen	Getting this ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'numpy'
2021-05-26 21:08:17	nedbat	Nickssen: sounds like you installed them to a different python than the one visual studio code is using
2021-05-26 21:08:36	Nickssen	is there some "path" working to do?
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2021-05-26 21:08:53	Nickssen	Im not really sure how that part works but it said that I had to specify some path for anaconda
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2021-05-26 21:10:51	nedbat	Nickssen: sorry, i don;t know how visual studio code find its python
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2021-05-26 21:13:19	shrysr_	well usually specified in the project settings... in pycharm for example. I havent used vs code
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2021-05-26 21:13:40	shrysr_	In fact, i think usually specified each time you start a new project.
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2021-05-26 21:15:30	jj27	stealth_: thanks. now this error: table vpn_tunnels has 17 columns but 16 values were supplied
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2021-05-26 21:19:22	jj27	sorry, missed that you added an extra ? parameter in the query. added that and it says the parameters are of  unsupported type. I assume its the None that is triggering it.
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2021-05-26 21:21:59	stealth_	jj27, if your first column is id pk None should have worked!
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2021-05-26 21:23:22	stealth_	jj27, can you count how many column there actually are? maybe you have 1 extra and you are not providing it with value?
2021-05-26 21:24:03	jj27	yup first column is indeed 'id'.  table structure has 17 columns (including the id PK AI)
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2021-05-26 21:25:28	stealth_	jj27, i am not sure, as far as i can tell you are providing it with 17 values right?
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2021-05-26 21:49:06	jj27	stealth_: i deleted the 'id' column from the table. tried inserting with just 'insert into vpn_tunnels values(...)' and I still current statement uses 16 bindings, 11 supplied.
2021-05-26 21:49:08	jj27	i quit lol
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2021-05-26 21:54:59	jj27	stealth_: okay, it worked...when I put my parameters as [('value','value')] etc...so I think in python terms i wrapped my tuple into a list format.
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2021-05-26 21:57:19	Spawns_Carpeting	is python staying on freenode?
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2021-05-26 22:03:17	twainwek	according to the topic, doesn't look like it
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2021-05-26 22:12:15	stealth_	jj27, hmm that's weird
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2021-05-26 22:16:27	Tashtari	Spawns_Carpeting: Answer to be found at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-26 22:48:45	catbeard	Fastly error: unknown domain: pound-python.org. Please check that this domain has been added to a service.
2021-05-26 22:48:47	catbeard	Details: cache-fty21322-FTY
2021-05-26 22:48:51	catbeard	when going to http://pound-python.org
2021-05-26 22:49:15	Tashtari	Works over here.
2021-05-26 22:49:38	Peng	With or without www?
2021-05-26 22:49:43	-->	zjgcjy (~Richard@2400:dd01:1001:1020:6d40:e025:4733:9bec) has joined #python
2021-05-26 22:49:54	Tashtari	Going to that exact URL, http://pound-python.org
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2021-05-26 22:51:05	enrh	I'll just leave this here, https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-05-26 22:51:54	-->	Dadrophenia (~ac150003@unaffiliated/dadrophenia) has joined #python
2021-05-26 22:52:07	catbeard	ready for mass clear
2021-05-26 22:52:14	Tashtari	Agree
2021-05-26 22:52:44	-->	Voxel (~v7@unaffiliated/v7) has joined #python
2021-05-26 22:52:48	enrh	I'll start!
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2021-05-26 22:53:02	SnoopJ	cc anonyme, the main website has been updated ^
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2021-05-26 22:53:22	catbeard	nedbat: Yhg1s: ^
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2021-05-26 23:13:28	Wulf	perhaps someone can add an "s" to http://libera.chat/t and remove the "t"?
2021-05-26 23:13:31	mud	Hm. So the link on https://www.python.org/community/irc/ to the place that shall not be named, is a 404. I think typo?
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2021-05-27 00:11:46	amosbird	Hi, is there any lib to easily build markdown text in python?
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2021-05-27 00:17:39	sartan	I've looked into it before, and just ended up doing jinja
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2021-05-27 00:18:55	amosbird	hmm, ok
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2021-05-27 01:13:00	kek_1	hi, if I try to "import matplotlib" I get "o module named 'matplotlib.path'; 'matplotlib' is not a package". Now matplotlib is installed (not by pip but my package manager). Now "pkg_resources" does show me matplotlib though. Why can't I import it? I recently compiled python myself to get debug symbols but then reinstalled if after from my package manager. I also recently tried to remove pip and move to my package manager 100%. So I
2021-05-27 01:13:00	kek_1	could have easily fucked up something.
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2021-05-27 01:15:02	eyepeetee	hi, so does the python threading module not actually put things into different threads? just makes it so things can run asynchronously?
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2021-05-27 01:15:28	eyepeetee	did a test just now to try and max out all of my cores with it and couldn't
2021-05-27 01:15:31	Wulf	eyepeetee: it creates actual OS level threads.
2021-05-27 01:15:40	Wulf	eyepeetee: global interpreter lock!
2021-05-27 01:16:13	kek_1	I also just noticed if I start the repl at ~ it works just fine. But only there.
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2021-05-27 01:22:58	eyepeetee	hummmm, that is nice to know Wulf but unfortunate that for some reason i'm not seeing it in practice
2021-05-27 01:23:26	Wulf	eyepeetee: read about the GIL.
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2021-05-27 01:24:39	eyepeetee	i will read up on it now
2021-05-27 01:25:03	eyepeetee	Wulf, this is my implementation though, do you see some reason why this wouldn't be taking up 100% of my cpu given 8 cores? https://pastebin.com/R6Y0BSMk
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2021-05-27 01:25:57	Wulf	eyepeetee: GIL.
2021-05-27 01:26:02	eyepeetee	okay i will take a look.
2021-05-27 01:26:16	eyepeetee	oh, you did mention that earlier
2021-05-27 01:26:28	eyepeetee	hmm i see
2021-05-27 01:26:49	eyepeetee	so that would sort of have the effect i described earlier, where it multithreads but does not take full advantage of each
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2021-05-27 01:27:14	Wulf	yep
2021-05-27 01:27:20	eyepeetee	seems like that means it's doing my synchronization for me too
2021-05-27 01:27:34	eyepeetee	so i've wasted so much time in the past synchronizing my python threads
2021-05-27 01:27:49	eyepeetee	that's unfortunate
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2021-05-27 01:28:44	Wulf	eyepeetee: there are other python implementations without a GIL. If you don't synchronize your threads, your code may break there.
2021-05-27 01:29:45	eyepeetee	jeez, and due to this, it will even run slower multithreaded much of the time
2021-05-27 01:30:17	eyepeetee	i am disappointed it had to have been this way for some reason i'll probably read down to in a minute
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2021-05-27 01:34:33	eyepeetee	multiprocessing feels a bit hackish
2021-05-27 01:35:29	Wulf	eyepeetee: perhaps you can use something like numpy
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2021-05-27 01:37:26	eyepeetee	Wulf unfortunately the example code i had posted was nothing more than an example. normally that function only consists of lines 19-20, but it ran a bit slow on a big set of data so i decided to multithread it for the heck of it
2021-05-27 01:37:41	eyepeetee	my frustrations extend to all of the cpu bound multithreaded things i have that are made in python
2021-05-27 01:37:54	eyepeetee	that i never realized this before about
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2021-05-27 01:41:49	eyepeetee	so i guess for cpu bound multiprocessing code, the solution is to multiprocess, and for code reliant on other blocking procedures, threading is still okay.
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2021-05-27 01:42:16	eyepeetee	sorry, cpu bound code to be multithreaded* should instead be multiprocessed in python ***
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2021-05-27 01:44:45	eyepeetee	https://i.gyazo.com/be56387eba5c817b3309a8e8883f8c5a.png
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2021-05-27 02:02:52	kek_1	anyone has an idea why plt.axes().set_aspect('equal') suddendly starts to add a big white nothing inside my plots? E.g. https://i.imgur.com/sWNkV9k.png ?
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2021-05-27 02:11:30	pi-	My code starts up several threads. When I quit, one of them is not terminating. How to find out which?
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2021-05-27 02:11:49	pi-	I'm on macos... can I inspect running threads spawned by the root thread?
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2021-05-27 02:14:15	kosh	pi-  the channel has moved https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-27 02:27:33	pi-	I can't get into libera
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2021-05-27 02:28:06	pi-	No Ident response
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2021-05-27 02:29:31	grawity	what happens after that
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2021-05-27 02:30:35	pi-	https://bpa.st/3DFA ... this just loops
2021-05-27 02:30:58	grawity	yeah well look at like 8, not at 6
2021-05-27 02:31:08	pi-	I'm trying irc.libera.chat:6697
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2021-05-27 02:31:39	pi-	But don't I need to get in in order to send commands?
2021-05-27 02:31:42	pi-	I'm catch-22'd
2021-05-27 02:32:11	pi-	Looking at https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-05-27 02:32:12	grawity	if you're not able to *register*, yeah, you'll need to find some other way to get in first -- like a webchat
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2021-05-27 02:33:00	grawity	try https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/
2021-05-27 02:33:13	grawity	or rather https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/
2021-05-27 02:33:28	grawity	I'm not sure if the SASL check applies to webchat gateways as well, but probably won't
2021-05-27 02:33:53	pi-	Closing Link: node-1cl0.pool-118-173.dynamic.totinternet.net (SASL access only)
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2021-05-27 02:34:01	pi-	gee
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2021-05-27 02:35:30	pi-	"SASL access only restrictions are typically applied to address ranges that are the source of frequent policy violations due to providing easy access to dynamic addresses to a wide range of users"
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2021-05-27 02:35:34	pi-	I wonder if this is the culprit.
2021-05-27 02:35:49	pi-	(https://libera.chat/guides/sasl)
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2021-05-27 02:36:06	grawity	it is yes
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2021-05-27 02:36:21	grawity	freenode does the same thing, too, only the limited address ranges may differ
2021-05-27 02:36:28	pi-	I notice I occasionally get banned by Freenode.
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2021-05-27 02:36:41	grawity	e.g. libera got a whole bunch of spam, so they *might* have slapped the login requirement on more ranges
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2021-05-27 02:36:45	pi-	And it always takes a day or so to fix it
2021-05-27 02:37:27	pi-	hm I have no easy way in, other than to ssh into a remote linux box and try to IRC from there.
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2021-05-27 02:37:42	pi-	What a nuisance!
2021-05-27 02:37:53	grawity	eh, it's a one-time thing
2021-05-27 02:38:08	grawity	kind of annoying when one doesn't have any remote boxes though
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2021-05-27 02:38:28	pi-	What's good for IRC from bash?
2021-05-27 02:38:55	grawity	I usually say Weechat, but if it's just a one-time thing then Irssi might be easier to get running
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2021-05-27 02:39:28	grawity	hmm well I guess it's the same in both really
2021-05-27 02:40:38	jonascj	Should a function which returns an list index return None, -1 or maybe raise an exception in the case it does not find the element searched for?
2021-05-27 02:42:55	jonascj	str.find() returns -1 if a substring is not found, I guess it could have raised an exception instead or returned None, but someone chose to go with -1 (in the spirit of returning integers I suppose).
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2021-05-27 02:49:02	grawity	jonascj: str happens to have both -- .index() raises ValueError, .find() returns -1, depending on preference
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2021-05-27 02:50:02	jonascj	grawity you mean it depends on preference whether one prefers status codes (-1) or exceptions?
2021-05-27 02:50:27	grawity	yes, I guess there are valid use cases for both
2021-05-27 02:50:59	grawity	similarly, set.remove() vs set.discard()
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2021-05-27 02:51:38	jonascj	Don't you suppose many of those are simply inconsistencies that are hard to remove now without breaking old code?
2021-05-27 02:51:51	grawity	maybe but also not really
2021-05-27 02:52:12	grawity	it's kinda like how "if x := y():" was added as syntactic sugar for "x = y(); if x:"
2021-05-27 02:53:06	grawity	sometimes you don't want to screw around with "if x in set: set.remove(x)" or even a 4-liner exception handler, you just want the result of the item not being there whether it was there or not
2021-05-27 02:53:36	grawity	I'm less sure about when str.find() would be more useful vs str.index, though, but perhaps it's the same kind of situation
2021-05-27 02:53:46	grawity	and yes it *could* be just a legacy function, I didn't dig too deep
2021-05-27 02:55:08	jonascj	sure, sometimes it is convenient that things fail silently, because if it fails nothing special needs to be done (like removing an element that is not there, great, I wanted to remove it anyway).
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2021-05-27 02:56:31	jonascj	Thank you for the discussion
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2021-05-27 02:59:47	kosh	find was the original method, index was added later and find takes its behavior from c
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2021-05-27 03:00:43	grawity	like strstr returning NULL?
2021-05-27 03:01:06	jonascj	kosh great insight, thank you. c can only rely on return values to indicate status so that makes sense
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2021-05-27 03:01:52	kosh	this goes back to at least python 1.5 or earlier, I don't think index existed then but I would have to check
2021-05-27 03:02:17	jonascj	ah well, it also has NULL for identifying invalid pointers
2021-05-27 03:02:55	kosh	actually index was there even in 1.5
2021-05-27 03:02:58	jonascj	so even C has two methods for specifying something went wrong, null if it has to do with pointers and other return values for everything else
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2021-05-27 03:41:21	Guddu	Could someone please help me with a urwid library query?
2021-05-27 03:41:43	Guddu	I am trying to dynamically add a new radio button everytime there is a key press action on the existing radio button. Could you please tell me what could be wrong? Here is my snippet.
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2021-05-27 03:42:10	Guddu	https://dpaste.org/N9S5
2021-05-27 03:42:20	Guddu	Its a 22 liner and i cannot seem to figure out what I am doing wrong.
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2021-05-27 03:44:38	Ziggurat	Hello I am trying to do multiple different if screen.getch() == curses.KEY_SPACE:  But I cannot get curses.KEY_ESC, curses.KEY_ENTER and curses.KEY_SPACE to work, any hints?
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2021-05-27 03:46:52	gcbirzan	Guddu: You need to append to simple_walker, not saved_list.
2021-05-27 03:47:50	Guddu	gcbirzan, Thanks for your response. I believe that simple_walker works on whatever list is passed to it and should refresh whenever the list changes.
2021-05-27 03:48:00	Guddu	Could you Please tell me if is it not that way?
2021-05-27 03:48:40	Guddu	gcbirzan, Also, I don't see an append method available on simple_walker object.
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2021-05-27 03:48:45	Guddu	Appreciate your help with this.
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2021-05-27 03:49:43	gcbirzan	Guddu: It's there, on MonitoredList. And, I think that when you don't go through the walker, there's no callback called to update the UI.
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2021-05-27 03:50:25	gcbirzan	Guddu: There's another bug, you get two buttons after the first one, since two items change state.
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2021-05-27 03:52:03	Guddu	gcbirzan, Could you please share your snippet?
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2021-05-27 03:52:56	gcbirzan	Guddu: https://gist.github.com/gcbirzan/3400c2c68820df316a7b7e6998a8bca5
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2021-05-27 03:53:09	gcbirzan	I just changed saved_list to simple_walker on line 8
2021-05-27 03:53:13	gcbirzan	and, well, reformatted the code :P
2021-05-27 03:53:47	Guddu	:-)
2021-05-27 03:54:42	pi-	Just a note of warning: transitioning this channel will be a NIGHTMARE if people are simultaneously using both.
2021-05-27 03:54:56	pi-	Why not have a very clear instruction in the channel topic?
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2021-05-27 03:55:27	pi-	Linking to the relevant 'nickserv register' docs for libera...
2021-05-27 03:55:37	pi-	To make sure everyone makes the transition safely...
2021-05-27 03:55:39	gcbirzan	I haven't updated my setup for libera, so :P
2021-05-27 03:56:02	pi-	Exactly. Most people won't do it unless they have to.
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2021-05-27 03:56:10	pi-	Because they have other things to be doing.
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2021-05-27 03:56:41	kosh	pi we can't put instructions in the channel topic
2021-05-27 03:56:50	kosh	pi the channels that did that got destroyed, over 700 of them
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2021-05-27 03:57:07	pi-	holy shit
2021-05-27 03:57:12	pi-	What's going on with Freenode???
2021-05-27 03:57:18	kosh	that is why we moved yesterday all at once
2021-05-27 03:57:20	dexter	Hi! What is the proper way to write to a unix named pipe in python? I have a rust program which has the pipe open, so when i just echo to that pipe everything is great, but when using python open("pipe", "w"), it blocks
2021-05-27 03:57:37	kosh	because we have no way to know how long the channel would survive, one of the #python-fr was already removed
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2021-05-27 03:58:44	pi-	That is sad to see. Freenode has been a bastion of FOSS for 2 decades, no?
2021-05-27 03:58:55	kosh	yes
2021-05-27 03:59:04	kosh	all the original staff left and created libera
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2021-05-27 03:59:31	kosh	we didn't really end up with a choice about moving
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2021-05-27 04:00:02	pi-	ok, so gcbirzan dexter Guddu Ziggurat jonascj Take note: channel is moved, click topic link for libera.
2021-05-27 04:00:28	gcbirzan	I am well aware of this.
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2021-05-27 04:00:43	gcbirzan	dexter: What do you mean it blocks, the write blocks, or you don't get the data?
2021-05-27 04:01:01	Guddu	Thank pi Honestly i was not aware. Pardon me for my ignorance.
2021-05-27 04:01:03	kosh	pi- myself and a few other regulars keep watching here to help people move over
2021-05-27 04:01:09	dexter	do i need to register there?
2021-05-27 04:01:12	gcbirzan	Same as here.
2021-05-27 04:01:20	dexter	Ah okay
2021-05-27 04:01:21	kosh	yeah it is the same as here, same channel structure, same people etc
2021-05-27 04:01:25	dexter	sad that freenode messed up
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2021-05-27 04:01:34	kosh	I have no idea what freenode was thinking
2021-05-27 04:01:40	Guddu	Thanks kosh gcbirzan So kind of you guys.
2021-05-27 04:01:46	kosh	no problem
2021-05-27 04:01:57	pi-	kosh: I think we need to encourage experts to offer their expertise from libera and NOT here, otherwise it's going to cause fragmentation.
2021-05-27 04:02:19	kosh	I am not helping anyone here with python anymore, just helping people move
2021-05-27 04:02:31	pi-	So what actually went down?
2021-05-27 04:02:42	kosh	that is also what we spent most of our time doing yesterday
2021-05-27 04:02:55	kosh	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/
2021-05-27 04:03:00	kosh	that has a lot of the issues
2021-05-27 04:03:12	gcbirzan	I actually thought crown prince of korea was a joke
2021-05-27 04:03:17	gcbirzan	turns out, nope
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2021-05-27 04:03:47	kosh	it is missing the stuff from 2 days ago when 700 channels where destroyed which is what pushed so many off
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2021-05-27 04:04:53	kosh	pi- https://www.gentoo.org/news/2021/05/26/gentoo-freenode-channels-hijacked.html
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2021-05-27 04:08:54	kosh	pi- https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2021/may/26/django-irc-channels-migration-liberachat/
2021-05-27 04:09:12	kosh	this happened to lots of projects, there are just a few big ones with news articles I remember
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2021-05-27 04:09:36	pi-	This is the best tech channel I've ever witnessed. World-class engineering talent, all-levels-friendly, on-topic, relaxed admin. Glad to see it is making the move, after reading the article.
2021-05-27 04:10:19	kosh	we started doing prep work for a possible movie a while back when the staff left just in case
2021-05-27 04:10:26	kosh	but recent events forced the issue
2021-05-27 04:10:33	kosh	s/movie/move
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2021-05-27 04:11:56	jonascj	Wow, I didn't know about freenodes situation and I've been using it for years. Time to move it seems.
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2021-05-27 04:15:14	venmx	hi, i am failing code review on the grounds of unsafe use of command line arguments, how can i improve this? https://bpa.st/NMMQ
2021-05-27 04:15:49	gcbirzan	Aren't code reviews supposed to tell you what's actually wrong?
2021-05-27 04:15:53	gcbirzan	Just ask whomever made that comment.
2021-05-27 04:16:14	venmx	i don't see exactly what's wrong from sonarqube
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2021-05-27 04:16:38	venmx	it has a lot of content about why it's bad and some CVE's etc
2021-05-27 04:17:03	gcbirzan	Ah, this is automated.
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2021-05-27 04:17:32	gcbirzan	can you use bpa.st to paste the actual message?
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2021-05-27 04:17:56	venmx	i guess i could remove the issue by hard coding it in but if there is another way, i.e. filtering the value somehow? i thought of testing it is the right type of file, i.e. exists and a text file?
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2021-05-27 04:18:53	gcbirzan	You won't be able to fix it until you know what's wrong
2021-05-27 04:18:55	jonascj	venmx better try to just parse the config and catch any exceptions
2021-05-27 04:19:34	venmx	https://bpa.st/JLEA
2021-05-27 04:19:42	jonascj	assume the argument is a file of the correct type and try to parse it. If it turns out not to be a file at all, be an image file or whatever that will fail and you can report the failure to the user or resort to a default config
2021-05-27 04:20:52	jonascj	The pioint the message makes is that some information is not suitable for as command line args, i.e. password because the process with its command line arguments is visible in the list of processes running or in the shell history
2021-05-27 04:20:55	gcbirzan	That's stupid.
2021-05-27 04:21:05	gcbirzan	I'm assuming that's the path to a file?
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2021-05-27 04:21:37	jonascj	but that is not the case here, it might even be a bonus to see the config in the list of running processes "python program.py thisconfig.txt"
2021-05-27 04:21:59	gcbirzan	The suggestion is to do exactly this.
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2021-05-27 04:22:28	gcbirzan	and they link to a some example where you call system on the args... That's the problem, not the fact that you get args from the cmdline
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2021-05-27 04:22:42	venmx	jonascj: that is how i run it, i use that format in the command and args in the container spec
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2021-05-27 04:23:37	gcbirzan	I'd say that particular message is a false positive.
2021-05-27 04:24:14	venmx	unfortunately it looks like it will fail me until it's fixed and so i can't promote the code
2021-05-27 04:24:15	--	synthetek is now known as sl4ck3r
2021-05-27 04:24:33	venmx	i will try to filter it then at least
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2021-05-27 04:24:53	jonascj	agreed, what you do is fine, but remember to handle any errors that might arise from users specifying an invalid config file
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2021-05-27 04:25:57	jonascj	you could test if the provided commandline argument is a file, but really you should just try to parse it and see if that succeeds, otherwise something is wrong
2021-05-27 04:26:06	gcbirzan	This rule raises an issue when on every program entry points (main methods) when command line arguments are used. The goal is to guide security code reviews.
2021-05-27 04:27:04	venmx	there are other issues too... it calls it code smell, and i would agree with it "Refactor this function to reduce its Cognitive Complexity from 16 to the 15 allowed." it doesn't like the flatten_value and config_log_output methods https://bpa.st/XMNQ
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2021-05-27 04:27:53	Sunny93	I switch a pip source but the "cache" seems not update. I still get package version not found in the index. I think I need to refresh the index
2021-05-27 04:28:06	Sunny93	How to refresh the index?
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2021-05-27 04:28:24	venmx	so the first method i can't see a good way to make a list or dict of each unit calc... i thought of making a load of lambdas, but not sure how it would work
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2021-05-27 04:28:45	Sunny93	I still can't get the newer version of a package* .
2021-05-27 04:30:14	venmx	the config_log_output method is supposed to be a selector and it does look messy, but i had trouble trying to use python constructs like comprehensions on it
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2021-05-27 04:36:07	kosh	this channel has moved https://www.pound-python.org please move python discussions there
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2021-05-27 04:36:50	sl4ck3r	not leaving
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2021-05-27 04:37:26	kosh	that is fine, just realized that people helping with python won't be here anymore
2021-05-27 04:37:31	sl4ck3r	channel hasn't moved. just some people that went to the channel.
2021-05-27 04:37:43	sl4ck3r	that's fine
2021-05-27 04:37:47	kosh	sorry but the channel has officially moved
2021-05-27 04:37:50	CustosLimen	hi, are there any good/more-popular alternatives to pydantic? I don't have a problem with it, just want to know for interest sake
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2021-05-27 04:38:28	CustosLimen	kosh: put it in the topic then
2021-05-27 04:38:32	kosh	CustosLimen, attrs
2021-05-27 04:38:40	kosh	CustosLimen, we can't put it in the topic, the channel will be destroyed
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2021-05-27 04:38:50	kosh	CustosLimen, that is what happened to 700 channels 2 days ago
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2021-05-27 04:39:25	kosh	CustosLimen, https://www.gentoo.org/news/2021/05/26/gentoo-freenode-channels-hijacked.html  https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2021/may/26/django-irc-channels-migration-liberachat/
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2021-05-27 04:40:48	jonascj	Could a bot tell it to new users joining?
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2021-05-27 04:42:15	kosh	I don't know
2021-05-27 04:42:48	kosh	CustosLimen, dataclasses are also built in now and do a lot of that
2021-05-27 04:46:28	CustosLimen	kosh: I get the point of moving, but is libera really the best place?
2021-05-27 04:46:41	CustosLimen	I mean they are the same group that sold out their users
2021-05-27 04:46:47	kosh	it is run by the people that ran freenode for the last few decades
2021-05-27 04:46:48	CustosLimen	and got them into this situation
2021-05-27 04:46:54	CustosLimen	kosh: that is a bad thing
2021-05-27 04:46:57	CustosLimen	not a good thing
2021-05-27 04:46:58	kosh	they didn't sell anything, this was just the volunteer staff
2021-05-27 04:47:16	CustosLimen	Okay, volunteered it into the ground then, whatever verb you want to use
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2021-05-27 04:47:30	CustosLimen	they ran in for last few decades and now it is this mess
2021-05-27 04:47:40	kosh	they didn't cause this
2021-05-27 04:48:00	CustosLimen	Who was it then?
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2021-05-27 04:48:36	kosh	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/
2021-05-27 04:49:21	sl4ck3r	idk why you can't just go if you want, and stop spamming to get people that already know about it to leave. "like herding cattle" of course now that we are staying, we are bad to right?
2021-05-27 04:49:38	sl4ck3r	i mean. i respect your choice, so respect mine?
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2021-05-27 04:51:22	kosh	I never said you have to leave, just that the channel has moved and if you want help with python you should go there
2021-05-27 04:51:27	jonascj	Libera has more users than OFTC and EFnet, wild https://netsplit.de/networks/top100.php it has more users than EFnet and OFTC
2021-05-27 04:51:28	bjs	sl4ck3r: well this channel was the official channel, and so in some sense yes the channel has moved.
2021-05-27 04:51:43	kosh	and the move is official
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2021-05-27 04:51:46	sl4ck3r	part of it has
2021-05-27 04:51:52	bjs	the ground where it was, is obviously still here,  but the channel has moved
2021-05-27 04:52:11	kosh	sl4ck3r, https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/thread/FQW44V4DZFX4GAGOAMAZAN5KDQXCASDU/#FQW44V4DZFX4GAGOAMAZAN5KDQXCASDU
2021-05-27 04:52:49	bjs	sl4ck3r: well, almost all of the active users did, and the PSF did, and so the only thing that's here are the leftovers after the party.  At the end of a concert and they pack up and go to the next place I wouldn't say they're "still here" because there's still some people and bits and bobs laying around on the grass where the band used to be :)
2021-05-27 04:52:54	sl4ck3r	not looking at any other links. already made my decision
2021-05-27 04:52:56	bjs	the band got up and moved
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2021-05-27 04:54:16	bjs	you're free to stay here of course,  well, so long as the PSF/Freenode feel like keeping this place open
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2021-05-27 04:55:56	CobraKai	These moves seem rushed
2021-05-27 04:56:04	bjs	CobraKai: it was rushed
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2021-05-27 04:56:55	kosh	CobraKai, they where rushed, lots of channels scrambled yesterday after 700 channels where destroyed the previous night
2021-05-27 04:56:58	bjs	It happened suddenly when other similar channels,  e.g. #haskell  were suddenly taken over without warning
2021-05-27 04:57:45	bjs	to me, #haskell was the big one because it was a large on-topic registered channel for an open-source programming language and a close community that controlled it, just like this channel is.  And now it's gone.
2021-05-27 04:57:59	bjs	It seems the PSF either was already going to, or decided then,  to move the official channels over to Libera.Chat
2021-05-27 04:58:10	CobraKai	It also doesn't seem democratic. Just someone saying "hey we moved." kosh many channels were that should not have been affected were with that but it was due to spam complaints. Many channels were putting on echo bots and basically forcing users to migrate. I enjoy Freenode and still like it here. I also think the new staff can do good things. Of course, communities must decide on their own.
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2021-05-27 04:58:17	bjs	CobraKai: it's not democratic
2021-05-27 04:58:27	sl4ck3r	you keep mentioning that, but not the part where they apologized to the people it happened too. I hope the new place doesn't make any mistakes.
2021-05-27 04:58:28	bjs	Python is controlled by the PSF,  they dictate what the official channels are.
2021-05-27 04:58:37	kosh	bjs, django and gentoo where also hit
2021-05-27 04:58:52	jancoow	Where can I find binaries for python 3.x for arm 32m
2021-05-27 04:58:54	kosh	sl4ck3r, destroying that many channels is not a mistake
2021-05-27 04:58:58	jancoow	My device only comes with 2.7
2021-05-27 04:59:00	bjs	sl4ck3r: It doesn't matter they apologised, they didn't fix the mistake they just apologised for doing it.
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2021-05-27 04:59:25	bjs	Clearly the PSF did not feel safe having their channel be around staff who could make such mistakes,  and then not even fix them
2021-05-27 05:00:05	kosh	CobraKai, this has been discussed among regulars on the channel for a little while now
2021-05-27 05:00:33	bjs	They trust the staff at Libera from the decades of experience with them on Freenode and decided to move with them.  There was no vote or decision,  it was up to the PSF where the "official" channels are.  This place may or may not continue to exist.  ##python is the non-PSF controlled one
2021-05-27 05:00:39	bjs	that you are free to join and setup in
2021-05-27 05:00:45	kosh	the PSF did not make the decision with no input and they where not left with much of a choice
2021-05-27 05:00:51	jancoow	Ugh all this libera crap
2021-05-27 05:01:02	jancoow	Can we stop discussing it everywhere
2021-05-27 05:01:05	sl4ck3r	still staying here.
2021-05-27 05:01:05	<--	stormkl (~stormkl@213.74.214.99) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 05:01:14	bjs	sl4ck3r: you can stay here,  or at least, you can go to ##python
2021-05-27 05:01:18	bjs	this channel is controlled by the PSF
2021-05-27 05:01:20	venmx	gosh sad to read about Freenode... this will end up with only a domain name reg and a web server soon?
2021-05-27 05:01:33	kosh	venmx, not sure where it ends
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2021-05-27 05:01:43	sl4ck3r	it may never end
2021-05-27 05:02:09	bjs	It seemed likely Freenode will continue just fine, it has enough users and enough communites (presumably, even still?) to continue
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2021-05-27 05:02:15	venmx	Lee will be here on his own with a few cronies
2021-05-27 05:02:16	bjs	Libera is also big enough to continue
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2021-05-27 05:03:07	bjs	The official primary channels (single-hash ones) are, as per Freenode policies,  controlled by specific Projects and the project that controls this one has decided to move.  If you dislike this, you should either talk tot he PSF or ask Freenode to change their polices so you can reclaim this channel.
2021-05-27 05:03:10	CobraKai	Well, a "fix" was quickly enacted which was the services channel with ops ready to restore. However, the damage had already been done. The issue was many people were complaining about the "spam" - I put this in quotes because it is a subjective word. The staff had to scramble for a solution. Handle issues one at a time or do something unilateral which would be to look for topic w/ the other network + other keywords in
2021-05-27 05:03:10	CobraKai	it, and then retroactively fix channels caught up in the storm. I do not believe they thought it would affect so many channels and of course did not know this blowback. However, to their credit they setup a channel to try to fix this. Other than that, Freenode is exactly the same as it was last week.
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2021-05-27 05:03:44	bjs	CobraKai: could've just changed the topics
2021-05-27 05:03:44	kosh	CobraKai, I don't buy that excuse at all
2021-05-27 05:03:50	bjs	CobraKai: if that's what they really cared about
2021-05-27 05:04:01	kosh	CobraKai, they destroyed channels based on the topics, that is not dealing with spam
2021-05-27 05:04:14	bjs	Change the /TOPIC, drop a message to the ops saying "this no cool man",  and ask them to chat to staff about it as a warning.  Instead they just nuked all the channels
2021-05-27 05:04:19	bjs	then meekly said "oops" and didn't fix it
2021-05-27 05:04:25	CobraKai	It is unfortunate because many of us will continue to stay on Freenode but of course that is a problem. Essentially, you will follow the community.
2021-05-27 05:04:29	bjs	So yeah, I don't really buy it either
2021-05-27 05:04:37	bjs	CobraKai: yes,  it's always that way.  People will go where the people are.
2021-05-27 05:04:55	venmx	kosh: it's more than that though as i read it, it's about the dictator style anti community methods being used
2021-05-27 05:05:13	<--	ntome (~ntome@unaffiliated/ntome) has left #python ("going on libera")
2021-05-27 05:05:17	KirkMcDonald	The most charitable read of their actions is that they were grossly incompetent. In any case it was a violation of trust.
2021-05-27 05:05:21	Ninpo	dunno how people can either read what happened, or not bother reading what happened and still come along and try and both sides this
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2021-05-27 05:05:57	kosh	venmx, the removal of restrictions on hate speech, making decisions and then changing the rules after the fact etc
2021-05-27 05:06:28	kosh	KirkMcDonald, yes but their state reasons for their actions and their actions don't line up
2021-05-27 05:06:36	KirkMcDonald	Indeed.
2021-05-27 05:06:43	Ninpo	Besides Libera is literally run by the people that fostered the trust that Freenode is trying to dump on
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2021-05-27 05:06:56	kosh	the results of their action couldn't possibly address their stated cause of the actions
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2021-05-27 05:07:17	venmx	governance structures of open communities should be revised to protect against this... i suppose with the free market at work it naturally corrects itself anyway
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2021-05-27 05:07:47	bjs	venmx: that's sort of what the PSF is for
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2021-05-27 05:07:52	Ninpo	I think the governance of various open communities have responded well
2021-05-27 05:08:05	bjs	to protect Python itself from stuff like this
2021-05-27 05:08:09	CobraKai	It was a mistake. Not a well thought out action but was not malicious. This is a fairly new staff getting a handle on a large network. Again, once trust is broken, it is hard to earn back. However, the new network is just that new & there are issues there as well.
2021-05-27 05:08:10	Ninpo	It wasn't until Freenode acted beyond the pale that hard decisions were made in most cases
2021-05-27 05:08:31	Ninpo	CobraKai | It was a mistake. Not a well thought out action but was not malicious. <- how do you know this?
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2021-05-27 05:09:01	kosh	CobraKai, if the problem was spam why did it only target channels that had libera.chat in the topic?
2021-05-27 05:09:05	jancoow	Could someone help me a bit? I need to have python3.7 on a specific embedded device and also a few pip packages,however there is no pip installed and python3 is unavailable
2021-05-27 05:09:08	jancoow	Only python 2.7
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2021-05-27 05:09:33	bjs	CobraKai: there was no mistake,  the bot did exactly what it was told.  This wasn't a human who pressed the wrong button.  This was a bot that was deployed with a specific purpose
2021-05-27 05:09:42	bjs	CobraKai: you can tell, because they didn't undo the bots actions
2021-05-27 05:10:00	CobraKai	kosh: that was the source of the spam. By targeting that + other keywords they thought they could get the channels that were doing the echo bots etc, and then deal with the innocent. It obviously was a bad move.
2021-05-27 05:10:03	bjs	Those channels are still dead,  and they stand by all the channels getting nuked because of the /TOPIC
2021-05-27 05:10:26	bjs	CobraKai: if they thought the /TOPICs contained spam then (A) why didn't they target all channels? and (B) why not just change the /TOPIC and give a warning?
2021-05-27 05:10:38	bjs	why nuke the channel and redirect to another channel which just also has the spammy topic?
2021-05-27 05:11:01	CobraKai	You are correct, if this was going to affect that many channels there would have been a warning. They did not think that action would affect that many channels.
2021-05-27 05:11:07	KirkMcDonald	It is hard to see it as other than punitive.
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2021-05-27 05:11:25	bjs	CobraKai: I mean,  if they didn't count the number of channels they were going to affect then that's just complete incompetence no
2021-05-27 05:11:27	bjs	it's a grep
2021-05-27 05:11:40	jancoow	_on topic_ right
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2021-05-27 05:11:45	jancoow	\sigh/
2021-05-27 05:11:48	Ninpo	You don't accidentally automate a takeover of all official # namespace channels that have libera in the topic
2021-05-27 05:11:58	bjs	jancoow: this channel has moved to Libera.Chat btw, if you want Help with Python you should look there
2021-05-27 05:12:08	kosh	jancoow, the channel has moved, some of us are here to just help people move
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2021-05-27 05:12:12	venmx	jancoow: the only topic is leave... i'm reconfiguring my irc servers ;)
2021-05-27 05:12:32	sl4ck3r	so, i'm guessing if i go to libera and start spamming this place in the topic, etc.., i won't get banned?
2021-05-27 05:12:36	CobraKai	You don't need to leave.
2021-05-27 05:12:41	CobraKai	You can easily connect to both :)
2021-05-27 05:13:03	bjs	sl4ck3r: you seem to think that this is a community run place. it's not. that's ##python
2021-05-27 05:13:08	bjs	this is the PSF's channel.
2021-05-27 05:13:38	bjs	jancoow: You can vendor the packages directly
2021-05-27 05:13:40	bjs	without pip
2021-05-27 05:13:49	CobraKai	There should be an irc client that has channels on different networks in the same right side panel
2021-05-27 05:14:04	sl4ck3r	^
2021-05-27 05:14:07	bjs	CobraKai: my irccloud has a side panel with all the networks and all the channels
2021-05-27 05:14:11	Ninpo	you can overlay channels in weechat
2021-05-27 05:14:12	CobraKai	IRCcloud sort of has it
2021-05-27 05:14:12	bjs	that I'm connected to
2021-05-27 05:14:15	CobraKai	but its separated
2021-05-27 05:14:42	CobraKai	bjs: yeah but they are stacked
2021-05-27 05:14:53	bjs	CobraKai: you can pin things so they appear together at the top
2021-05-27 05:14:56	Ninpo	but if you're using an IRC client I don't get the big issue with #python being under a different network tab
2021-05-27 05:14:56	CobraKai	would be cool just to see the channels all together with no network
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2021-05-27 05:15:04	CobraKai	bjs: oh neat
2021-05-27 05:15:08	CobraKai	ill try that
2021-05-27 05:15:23	bjs	CobraKai: I think it's good to have them separated by network so I don't do that, but e.g. it lets you pin specific networks channels so they appear at the top of the pane.
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2021-05-27 05:24:11	IronHEDGE	Why not just move to discord python?
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2021-05-27 05:26:58	kosh	IronHEDGE, lots of people are there also
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2021-05-27 05:27:12	kosh	IronHEDGE, however moving from one irc server to another with identical structure is pretty easy
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2021-05-27 05:34:31	IronHEDGE	I find python discord a lot better in some ways, keeps your history, easier to insert code and continue topics easier. I mean IRCCloud makes life easier for IRC it is outdated.
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2021-05-27 05:35:22	Aaron	It is better IronHEDGE
2021-05-27 05:35:25	kosh	IronHEDGE, it is completely okay to use the python discord channel
2021-05-27 05:35:40	Aaron	Discord is good
2021-05-27 05:35:45	kosh	https://pythondiscord.com/   that is the official python discord
2021-05-27 05:35:52	kosh	also run by the PSF, same CoC etc
2021-05-27 05:36:07	kosh	you can use discord or irc, whatever you want
2021-05-27 05:36:29	IronHEDGE	Just putting it out there.
2021-05-27 05:36:57	kosh	mostly lots of people here just feel comfortable using irc so the move to another irc server makes sense
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2021-05-27 05:37:17	bjs	discord is far more popular
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2021-05-27 05:38:23	kosh	absolutely
2021-05-27 05:38:52	kosh	about 34K there right now
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2021-05-27 05:41:43	IronHEDGE	Slack is alright to but people on there can be very rude.
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2021-05-27 05:42:00	kek_2	hi
2021-05-27 05:42:08	kosh	I have not looked at a python slack channel
2021-05-27 05:42:12	Aaron	Is because we don't have the bad vibe :X
2021-05-27 05:42:20	Aaron	On Discord
2021-05-27 05:42:25	kek_2	if I do "import pylab as pl; pl.contourf(...);" did I create axes already?
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2021-05-27 07:07:20	nedbat	kek_2: іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt will be more active, you might have better luck there
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2021-05-27 07:08:31	Aaron	Lol
2021-05-27 07:08:31	nedbat	IronHEDGE: discord is different.  Actual conversation i had there yesterday: p1: "I'm 13 how old are people here?", p2: "I'm 15", me: "I'm older than that", p1: "17?"
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2021-05-27 07:09:06	Yhg1s	nedbat: doesn't sound *that* different.
2021-05-27 07:09:18	bjs	nedbat: what's wrong with that?
2021-05-27 07:09:23	bjs	we get people who ask how people are here
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2021-05-27 07:09:38	gcbirzan	He's just feeling old :P
2021-05-27 07:10:12	gcbirzan	I gues IRC has a higher barier for people that haven't been around for a long time
2021-05-27 07:10:19	IronHEDGE	@nedbat: that would be under general I would say. I can understand your logic tho. It does have channels for each topic so that’s nice, guess they are just missing the python-off topic channel :P
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2021-05-27 07:10:39	nedbat	IronHEDGE: don't get me wrong: i am very impressed with python discord
2021-05-27 07:10:42	gcbirzan	I dislike the help channels... It's very hard to keep track of what's happening
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2021-05-27 07:11:54	IronHEDGE	@gcbirzan: if they tag (@) you in the reply it works otherwise yes it’s hard to keep track of, much like the convos here but when more than 1 discussion is going on.
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2021-05-27 07:12:13	gcbirzan	yeah, but here I know I answered something in #python, so I can just go back to this window and check
2021-05-27 07:12:22	Aaron	nedbat, then if you guys are living can you handle me this channel?
2021-05-27 07:12:24	Aaron	To register it?
2021-05-27 07:12:31	gcbirzan	If there was a way to pin channels, it'd be easier
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2021-05-27 07:12:51	bjs	Aaron: you can't register it anyway
2021-05-27 07:12:58	bjs	it's a project channel, you can have ##python though
2021-05-27 07:13:05	bjs	(well probably someone else already does...)
2021-05-27 07:13:13	Aaron	Lol
2021-05-27 07:13:13	gcbirzan	nobody does
2021-05-27 07:13:20	nedbat	IronHEDGE: the pixels project in discord now is great
2021-05-27 07:13:32	gcbirzan	unless the group asks for it and freenode staff gives them control, it'll be hard to get that channel
2021-05-27 07:13:41	Yhg1s	Aaron: freenode policy means single-hash channels are 'official', which means this should be run under the auspices of the PSF.
2021-05-27 07:13:57	gcbirzan	nedbat: what's that?
2021-05-27 07:14:10	bjs	until and unless freenode changes their policy,  #python is always going to belong to the PSF
2021-05-27 07:14:12	Aaron	I want the channel to be official
2021-05-27 07:14:15	gcbirzan	ah, I see.
2021-05-27 07:14:23	nedbat	gcbirzan: an API for drawing on a shared canvas, for people learning to use APIs
2021-05-27 07:14:27	Aaron	Not unofficial ;X
2021-05-27 07:14:33	Yhg1s	Aaron: but the official channel is over on libera, python.org says so :)
2021-05-27 07:14:35	Momentum	so you want to take over #python. i see
2021-05-27 07:14:41	gulzar	Hi. I have a distance matrix (type: pandas Dataframe) generated with scipy cdist. Looks like this https://paste.debian.net/1199002/   . What I need is to get combos based on distance cutoff. If we start with 0 index, then the next one within let's say distance of 10.  So now it's 0->1 . From 1 take 2nd within cutoff. now it's 0->1->2  and so on. let's say to make a combo of 5 such indexes. we can have various combos, as there are multiple indexes within
2021-05-27 07:14:42	gulzar	cuttoff of each other. How to get these combos? Any algo, ideas
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2021-05-27 07:14:54	Aaron	Trust me I am there Yhg1s but I cannot take this nick over there
2021-05-27 07:14:59	Aaron	So Screw them
2021-05-27 07:15:05	Yhg1s	Aaron: ... rriight.
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2021-05-27 07:15:24	Aaron	Trust me you won't see me any near a libera chat
2021-05-27 07:15:45	Aaron	And I don't need python support because that's what I do write beautiful code with Linux
2021-05-27 07:15:45	bjs	Aaron: well the nicks are first-come-first-served like here
2021-05-27 07:15:56	Aaron	bjs, there is always something....
2021-05-27 07:16:04	gcbirzan	Aaron: You can talk to a staffer, it seems to have been registered around the same time as mine, by some squatter.
2021-05-27 07:16:14	Aaron	Is like saying libera was create it because all the ircops we're remove from the OLINES
2021-05-27 07:16:17	 *	MrElendig had to get his nick reclaimed
2021-05-27 07:16:22	gcbirzan	yeah, me too
2021-05-27 07:16:24	Aaron	But no one blames it on the idiot who sold the domain to the new ones..
2021-05-27 07:16:36	Yhg1s	Aaron: there is plenty of blame going around.
2021-05-27 07:16:36	MrElendig	lost half of the ones I had grouped :/
2021-05-27 07:16:47	bjs	Aaron: tbh I wish they'd had a nick freeze, that those who owned the freenode nick was reserved on libera for $TIME
2021-05-27 07:16:48	Aaron	So now my question to you...
2021-05-27 07:16:58	bjs	it was a bit silly to just have a free for all over nicks and channels like that
2021-05-27 07:17:04	Aaron	Well they didn't
2021-05-27 07:17:07	Aaron	So screw them
2021-05-27 07:17:14	Aaron	Like they told me
2021-05-27 07:17:15	MrElendig	they couldn't bring the user db over so
2021-05-27 07:17:21	Yhg1s	Aaron: I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this attitude.
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2021-05-27 07:17:24	habnabit_	bjs, (and encourage people to drop nicks on the old network, so there was no way to verify identity)
2021-05-27 07:17:33	Aaron	Yhg1s, none what's so ever..
2021-05-27 07:17:42	Yhg1s	okay, well... good job?
2021-05-27 07:17:55	Aaron	That I am not childish enough to create a second server.... Because my IRCOP access was remove.
2021-05-27 07:18:06	gcbirzan	That's definitely not what happened.
2021-05-27 07:18:11	Aaron	Nor you'll see me crying like a little girl to the ircops...
2021-05-27 07:18:13	Yhg1s	Aaron: you certainly sound a lot more childish than that.
2021-05-27 07:18:19	Yhg1s	Aaron: not to mention insulting.
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2021-05-27 07:18:31	Yhg1s	Aaron: so please, take it elsewhere.
2021-05-27 07:18:33	bjs	Aaron: maybe you should have cried to the ops,  maybe they'd have reclaimed your nick before it got registered by someone else.
2021-05-27 07:18:52	Aaron	The only person I cried to is to my Sargent.
2021-05-27 07:18:55	Aaron	And that's about it;X
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2021-05-27 07:19:02	kosh	Aaron, instead you cry about things changing
2021-05-27 07:19:17	Aaron	Not really
2021-05-27 07:19:30	Aaron	I'm just saying how I see it from my point of view...
2021-05-27 07:19:35	kosh	you are complaining that things are changing
2021-05-27 07:19:41	Yhg1s	Aaron: yes, really.
2021-05-27 07:19:50	Aaron	I'm just complaining about people diving the projects
2021-05-27 07:20:00	bjs	diving?
2021-05-27 07:20:07	kosh	Aaron, a little over 700 channels where destroyed
2021-05-27 07:20:11	Aaron	Dividing sorry
2021-05-27 07:20:37	Aaron	Now is going to be funny when the DDOS and botnets come in to play.
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2021-05-27 07:20:41	kosh	Aaron, freenode used to HELP channels move to others servers, there is no need for a divide
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2021-05-27 07:21:00	kosh	DDOS have been part of freenet since the beginning
2021-05-27 07:21:04	Aaron	This will be fun ;X
2021-05-27 07:21:16	gcbirzan	There hasn't been a proper DoS against freenode in many years
2021-05-27 07:21:26	gcbirzan	spam in channels, yeah, but not DoS against servers
2021-05-27 07:21:41	kosh	I think they mostly got bored and went after other targets
2021-05-27 07:21:54	kosh	there will probably be more for a while
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2021-05-27 07:22:18	Aaron	I've served my country in the war.And I still see Marines and ARMY PEOPLE who served in the lines homeless... how can you explain this
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2021-05-27 07:22:33	Yhg1s	Aaron: which country are you in?
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2021-05-27 07:22:39	Aaron	USA
2021-05-27 07:22:42	Aaron	Of course
2021-05-27 07:22:47	gcbirzan	of course
2021-05-27 07:22:48	kosh	Aaron, why would python have anything to do with that?
2021-05-27 07:22:50	nedbat	Aaron: where is all this going?
2021-05-27 07:22:54	Yhg1s	Aaron: well, that explains it then. It's a messed up country. Capitalism is an abject failure.
2021-05-27 07:22:57	Aaron	No where... ;)
2021-05-27 07:22:58	gcbirzan	the sence of entitlement made that quite obvious :)
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2021-05-27 07:23:16	Aaron	Yhg1s, and I get paid to get rid off and hacking for the 75 regiment <3
2021-05-27 07:23:19	Aaron	Which is a plus
2021-05-27 07:23:46	<--	vladoski (~vladoski@2001:b07:add:d406:c96d:ed09:5069:d174) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 07:23:46	Aaron	Eliminating targets on the net and tracking them with there VPNS ;X
2021-05-27 07:24:14	Aaron	That is my specialty... ):X
2021-05-27 07:24:18	gcbirzan	I get that this isn't necessarily a channel we use for support, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.
2021-05-27 07:24:25	kosh	nice to know we have mature people doing that ....
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2021-05-27 07:25:44	Aaron	Yhg1s, so much for capitalism that people died to get here...
2021-05-27 07:26:07	tmbg	I think he was being sarcastic
2021-05-27 07:26:18	Aaron	Same here <3
2021-05-27 07:26:29	Yhg1s	I most assuredly wasn't.
2021-05-27 07:26:40	Aaron	Well I am ;O
2021-05-27 07:28:22	-->	Kingsy (~chris@unaffiliated/kingsy101) has joined #python
2021-05-27 07:28:27	Aaron	-SaslServ- <Unknown user (via SASL):host-82-56-150-215.retail.telecomitalia.it> failed to login to Aaron.  There have been 2 failed login attempts since your last successful login.
2021-05-27 07:28:42	Aaron	;X omg this is too funny
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2021-05-27 07:29:24	Kingsy	anyone in here got experience with glom? I am looking to find out how to use a lambda in the spec to call a classmethod with more than one value from the data
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2021-05-27 07:31:24	kosh	Aaron, recently whenever I login to freenode I see 2-4 of those
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2021-05-27 07:32:03	Aaron	Those are botnets trying to at least be discreet about trying to create a dictionary attack...
2021-05-27 07:32:21	Aaron	And they have fail 100000 times 2 Years in a row.
2021-05-27 07:32:50	kosh	Kingsy, I don't know what glom is but python support has moved to libera.chat  https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-27 07:33:17	Aaron	Where the hell is bob2 at
2021-05-27 07:33:24	Aaron	Is all your fault bob *sigh*
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2021-05-27 07:51:35	Croves	Hi fellows! How should annotate a function that returns a BeautifulSoap object? I'm trying `def parse_request(self, url = self._url: str) -> BeautifulSoup:` but doesn't seems correct
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2021-05-27 07:53:07	gulzar	anyone please.
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2021-05-27 07:54:12	kosh	Croves,  python support has moved to libera.chat  https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-27 07:55:19	kosh	gulzar, same thing with libera.chat but I suspect your problem is mathy enough that most can't help so what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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2021-05-27 07:58:18	kosh	gulzar, I have looked at your data and your message and I am not really clear on what you are trying to do
2021-05-27 07:58:43	Croves	kosh Thanks
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2021-05-27 08:02:52	gulzar	kosh: I am trying to form combos of indexes based on distances between them.  So if index 0 is within distnace of 10 from index 90 , then 0->90   not for next take 90 and find other within distance. In this way form combos of let's say 5 indexes. ONe index can have mjultiple other indexes within cutoff so form all combos
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2021-05-27 08:03:16	Death916_lap	you cant really say support has moved when theres 1200 ppl here and 200 on libera
2021-05-27 08:03:32	Death916_lap	mch better chances here
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2021-05-27 08:03:49	kosh	Death916_lap, 722 on libera and libera is the official channel endorsed by PSF
2021-05-27 08:04:03	Death916_lap	o its gone up i checked a couple days ago admittadely
2021-05-27 08:04:08	Death916_lap	sp
2021-05-27 08:04:13	MrElendig	Death916_lap: 200 actual people on libera, 1180 bots/idlers here :p
2021-05-27 08:04:28	Death916_lap	i wasnt really dissagreeing i was just saying probably easier to get an answer here atm with more eyes
2021-05-27 08:04:37	Death916_lap	ya alot of idlers tho lol
2021-05-27 08:04:47	bjs	Death916_lap: well, croves is already getting answers in the other channel
2021-05-27 08:04:48	bjs	and not here
2021-05-27 08:04:50	bjs	so ?
2021-05-27 08:04:59	kosh	all the regulars are there answering questions and we have not been answering questions here anymore but gulzur's quesion woult be hard to answer there also
2021-05-27 08:05:00	Death916_lap	im in both im not here to argue
2021-05-27 08:05:10	kosh	gulzar, thinking
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2021-05-27 08:05:40	gulzar	the dataformat can be changed from dataframe to anything else. It's just that scipy gave me this so I am keeping it
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2021-05-27 08:06:41	kosh	gulzar, so if your cutoff is 10 you can go from 0-1 or 0-2 but not the others
2021-05-27 08:07:10	kosh	can you go 2-1-0?  or 0-1-0?
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2021-05-27 08:08:13	gulzar	kosh: any within cutoff.  0 is just one example. If there are 100 indexes, use all as starting.  all combos with 0, then all with 1, then all with 2. and so on     repeatition like 0-1-0 is useless.
2021-05-27 08:08:38	kosh	gulzar, I am just trying to figure out the rules
2021-05-27 08:08:54	kosh	so 2-1-0  and 0-1-2 are both valid but 0-1-0 is not
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2021-05-27 08:10:17	gulzar	kosh: yes. The distances are between 3D points in x,y,z coords.  I need to figure out the closest ones. aI think is called K-mers , N-mers
2021-05-27 08:10:53	kosh	the thought that goes through my mind is a tree
2021-05-27 08:11:02	gulzar	kosh: ok, that also is fine
2021-05-27 08:11:10	kosh	I mean building it from this data
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2021-05-27 08:11:27	gulzar	I looked at tree also, never worked with trees, coudn't get it
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2021-05-27 08:11:31	kosh	so a nested dictionary
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2021-05-27 08:12:50	gulzar	I just need  list of lists with indexes forming each combo.
2021-05-27 08:13:01	gulzar	dict will also do
2021-05-27 08:13:27	kosh	a nested dictionary will allow you to cut down a lot of work
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2021-05-27 08:15:23	kosh	hmm actually there is probably a simpler way to do it
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2021-05-27 08:16:05	gulzar	can't figure out, any ideas are welcome
2021-05-27 08:16:15	kosh	connections = {0:(1,2), 1:(0,1,2,3), ...}
2021-05-27 08:16:35	kosh	so you list each column indepdently and what it connects to
2021-05-27 08:17:23	gulzar	oh
2021-05-27 08:17:40	kosh	you can then iterate over the dictionary so you start at 0 and you get (1,2) so you pull the entry for 1 and 2 and check them, discard any numbers you have already seen
2021-05-27 08:18:05	kosh	so recursive reading you either provide the next number or return
2021-05-27 08:19:37	gulzar	kosh: sounds good. Will try
2021-05-27 08:19:56	gulzar	speed is a big requirement here. That's why I am using numpy, scipy.
2021-05-27 08:20:08	kosh	with this I think you can cut the work down a lot
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2021-05-27 08:20:46	kosh	if this is not fast enough it probably needs to be done with numba and something more complicated
2021-05-27 08:20:47	gulzar	kosh: Thank You
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2021-05-27 08:21:04	kosh	no problem
2021-05-27 08:21:13	gulzar	numba will be implemented at last. I have lots of calculations to do with these combos
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2021-05-27 08:22:37	kosh	gulzar, https://numba.pydata.org/numba-doc/dev/reference/pysupported.html
2021-05-27 08:22:53	kosh	it looksl ike you would need to use a typed dictionary which should be fine for this
2021-05-27 08:23:23	kosh	because you have a mapping of int  to tuple(int)
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2021-05-27 08:25:36	gulzar	kosh: this is new to me. Will try it.
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2021-05-27 08:25:50	kosh	no problem
2021-05-27 08:26:02	kosh	sounds more like the interesting problems I deal with
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2021-05-27 08:27:53	gulzar	It is . It's one of a good algorithm for strucutres from our lab. I am rewriting it to add more features and fix older bugs. It was in C , written in worst possible way. Tried inC++ but it was messy. Finally on python :)
2021-05-27 08:27:56	gulzar	kosh: thank you
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2021-05-27 08:28:24	kosh	no problem
2021-05-27 08:29:01	kosh	I am a phd student working on high dimensional optimization and error modeling problems, have seen some of these kinds of problems
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2021-05-27 08:30:50	gulzar	interesting
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2021-05-27 08:34:57	CobraKai	kosh: do you use also use r
2021-05-27 08:35:30	kosh	I don't use r
2021-05-27 08:35:36	kosh	all my stuff is python and c++
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2021-05-27 08:39:15	nbro	I'm using pkg_resources to get a list of installed packages in Python inside a script. However, this does not return the list of installed packages in conda. Given that I'm using conda and some of the packages are installed with conda, this is a problem. Do you know how to get a list of packages inside the current conda environment inside a script?
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2021-05-27 08:40:24	kosh	nbro, the channel has moved to libera.chat https://www.pound-python.org  and I don't know the answer to your question
2021-05-27 08:40:28	-->	fizzizist (~Thunderbi@108.162.133.99) has joined #python
2021-05-27 08:40:49	nbro	so what is this channel used for?
2021-05-27 08:41:05	kosh	right now we are just moving people over
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2021-05-27 08:41:18	kosh	the channel will probably go away entirely later
2021-05-27 08:41:46	-->	hberaud (~hberaud@2a01:e0a:ff:e0e0:d20c:4ce7:fe8:ee13) has joined #python
2021-05-27 08:41:56	kosh	freenode has been changing a lot of things and recent actions caused a lot of projects to start moving over the last week and become urgent yesterday
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2021-05-27 08:42:08	gulzar	CobraKai: I use R, Python, C++
2021-05-27 08:42:38	kek_	hi, I want to send a number like "foo = 2" using mpi4py using the Send method (not the send method). How do I have to decalre the number to get it working?
2021-05-27 08:42:49	kosh	nbro, all the normal people that help are on irc.libera.chat
2021-05-27 08:42:53	nbro	alright, I will try to connect to the other channel then
2021-05-27 08:43:18	kosh	nbro, it is annoying and not what we wanted either
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2021-05-27 08:44:06	kek_	Send is used for buffer objects, buf I just keep  seeing stuff like numpy arrays. What about a single number, one integer? one double?
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2021-05-27 08:45:52	kosh	kek_, most likely you have to make an array holding one item
2021-05-27 08:46:15	kosh	since I think that is what you would need to do in c also
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2021-05-27 08:47:29	CobraKai	gulzar: me too
2021-05-27 08:47:45	kek_	kosh, in C you'd just provide the address of e.g. an integer. I guess the correct thing to do is to use Send instead of send for stuf flike one number, hmm. I'm just playing around here.
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2021-05-27 08:48:13	CobraKai	kosh: we can probably still use this channel unofficially for help if there are people on
2021-05-27 08:48:31	kosh	that splits things so we are trying to move everyone to one place
2021-05-27 08:48:40	kosh	also most of the people that help are not looking here anymore
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2021-05-27 08:49:22	gvsa123	CobraKai: wait, what? what's happening to this channel?
2021-05-27 08:49:48	CobraKai	gvsa123: i guess they are migrating to another network. ask kosh im unaffilated with this project officially
2021-05-27 08:49:53	kosh	the channel has moved to libera.chat https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-27 08:50:03	bjs	gvsa123: this place used to be the official Python channel.  Now Python moved it to another network.
2021-05-27 08:50:10	bjs	gvsa123: it can now be found at irc.libera.chat in #python https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-05-27 08:50:26	bjs	Some people may still be here,  but most of the active users are now there.
2021-05-27 08:50:47	kosh	gvsa123, stuff happened outside of our control
2021-05-27 08:51:20	kosh	I am not officially part of the project either but I have been here for a VERY long time
2021-05-27 08:51:21	gvsa123	that's good to know... just caught the ship on time
2021-05-27 08:51:24	gvsa123	lol
2021-05-27 08:51:42	kosh	gvsa123, don't worry it is the same people at the new location, same channel structure etc
2021-05-27 08:52:16	gvsa123	i'm not really part of 'a' project but i have been hanging out here and picked up a lot just by reading what people talk about...
2021-05-27 08:52:59	bjs	gvsa123: single-hash channels on irc are given special status, and "belong" to a project.
2021-05-27 08:53:02	Kingsy	kosh: sorry what do you mean?
2021-05-27 08:53:34	Kingsy	oh its been moved.
2021-05-27 08:53:36	Kingsy	no way
2021-05-27 08:53:40	bjs	gvsa123: the entity that owned this channel, the PSF, decided to make irc.libera.chat the "official" home,  which means Python people won't reply, except maybe to point people to the new place.
2021-05-27 08:53:41	<--	Kingsy (~chris@unaffiliated/kingsy101) has left #python
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2021-05-27 08:54:04	<--	gulzar (~gulzar@223.235.8.42) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-27 08:54:13	kosh	and some of us are here helping move people over
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2021-05-27 08:54:30	gvsa123	bjs: ah... at least it stuck to irc over discord or something
2021-05-27 08:54:31	gvsa123	lol
2021-05-27 08:54:41	bjs	gvsa123: the PSF also has official homes on discord, and slack
2021-05-27 08:54:43	bjs	and some other places too
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2021-05-27 08:55:19	bjs	the official presence on IRC is at irc.libera.chat in #python .  here still exists, some people may answer questions
2021-05-27 08:56:02	gvsa123	bjs: i saw that too because i have to use slack for work, and discord just to get onto react, so i was wondering whether python had one over there, but figured this was still the official... and then linux stuff and the other channels i'm in are on irc so it's nice to just have 1 client running
2021-05-27 08:56:31	kosh	most of the channels you use on freenode are on libera.chat now
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2021-05-27 08:57:00	Yhg1s	gvsa123: yes, the Python discord is bigger than IRC.
2021-05-27 08:57:03	<--	MalinC254 (~malin@pirate.pt) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-27 08:57:09	Yhg1s	(not just than #python on IRC, mind you.)
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2021-05-27 08:57:26	-->	Kingsy (~chris@unaffiliated/kingsy101) has joined #python
2021-05-27 08:57:27	kosh	yeah python discord is HUGE
2021-05-27 08:57:32	-->	xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.106) has joined #python
2021-05-27 08:57:38	Kingsy	its pretty quiet over there.. I think I will stay here too
2021-05-27 08:57:48	Yhg1s	Kingsy: I don't recommend it.
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2021-05-27 08:58:09	Kingsy	Yhg1s: how so?
2021-05-27 08:58:10	Yhg1s	(the channel is liable to be taken over by freenode admins without any notice, as we've seen in the last couple of days. they already did that to #django and #python-fr.)
2021-05-27 08:58:11	kosh	I think there are more people on python discord than connected to freenode in total
2021-05-27 08:58:19	Yhg1s	kosh: that's what I meant, yeah.
2021-05-27 08:58:31	Kingsy	ah
2021-05-27 08:59:49	gvsa123	k, thanks peeps... life is making me do other things... see you over the new place....
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2021-05-27 09:00:29	kosh	it is quite amazing how large discord is by comparison
2021-05-27 09:00:39	CobraKai	kosh: just fyi: mentioning the other network each time someone chats in here would be against policy i believe.
2021-05-27 09:00:54	CobraKai	best to just link to the url with the news
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2021-05-27 09:01:32	Byteflux	It's not.
2021-05-27 09:01:46	Byteflux	Linking to it in your topic is against policy, but otherwise you're free to talk about it. Who knows when they'll change tune though.
2021-05-27 09:01:51	kosh	CobraKai, do you have a better way to help people that come here so they actually know what is going on? forcing every person to read the a url before they have any idea of what is going on doesn't seem great
2021-05-27 09:01:55	CobraKai	Quite certain it is.
2021-05-27 09:02:01	Byteflux	Then you'd be wrong.
2021-05-27 09:02:04	CobraKai	Echo bots were a major reason the action ws done
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2021-05-27 09:02:27	CobraKai	again, i would suggest just linking to it via your irc url. But my 2 cents. You will probably be fine.
2021-05-27 09:02:54	kosh	in the end what can they really do? kick me off the only two channels I am on to help people move?
2021-05-27 09:02:54	Byteflux	Yes, it will be fine.
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2021-05-27 09:03:27	Yhg1s	CobraKai: There is a link in the topic.
2021-05-27 09:04:27	Yhg1s	CobraKai: as for the warning that it's against freenode policy to discuss moving, those were from fake accounts.
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2021-05-27 09:09:40	Byteflux	Very impressed with how many people you guys have managed to move to the new channel. If you consider that 30-40% of people here are forever idle on a bouncer, I think you got the vast majority of actives
2021-05-27 09:09:55	kosh	pretty happy about that
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2021-05-27 09:10:28	Yhg1s	Well, freenode removing 700 channels, including big-deal Python channels, was a big help.
2021-05-27 09:10:40	very_sneaky	which channels did it remove?
2021-05-27 09:10:42	Byteflux	Yeah I was sitting in a few channels when that happened... including #django...
2021-05-27 09:10:51	Byteflux	That was pretty messed up.
2021-05-27 09:11:04	very_sneaky	heh.
2021-05-27 09:11:12	kosh	django, gentoo, haskell, python-fr ...
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2021-05-27 09:11:24	kosh	like Yhg1s said it was about 700 channels
2021-05-27 09:11:32	kosh	so BIG push to move
2021-05-27 09:11:46	very_sneaky	to think the dude runs PIA
2021-05-27 09:12:06	very_sneaky	never been so glad with a decision to go with a competitor before
2021-05-27 09:12:09	Byteflux	It's always nice when our villains are incompetent.
2021-05-27 09:12:15	Byteflux	Imagine, it could be worse :P
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2021-05-27 09:13:09	kosh	competent evil you usually never hear about
2021-05-27 09:13:22	kosh	lawful evil often looks like lawful good :)
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2021-05-27 09:21:12	kek_	can I somehow use \ in a string and intendation on the new line without adding that intedation to the actual string?
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2021-05-27 09:34:59	lbracher	Hello! Sorry about the stupid question, but what is the right way to escape single quotes in Python, as it's done on PHP with addslashes()? I tried re.escape(), but it doesn't look to work. Any ideas?
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2021-05-27 09:35:42	kosh	use double quotes on the string instead
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2021-05-27 09:37:12	Pilate	lbracher shlex.quote maybe
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2021-05-27 09:37:47	NoImNotNineVolt	\'
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2021-05-27 09:39:37	lbracher	Pilate, it was an overkill, it escaped more than necessary, but thank you! And thank you all, I think the best is a naive replace and hope for the best.
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2021-05-27 09:40:18	odinsbane	win 2
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2021-05-27 09:43:48	kosh	you can do "this is a 'quote' inside a string"
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2021-05-27 09:46:09	nanonyme	Does the matrix Python community have at all same userbase as this one?
2021-05-27 09:47:06	kosh	what is the matrix python community?
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2021-05-27 09:47:50	grym	there is a matrix python community?
2021-05-27 09:48:14	kosh	can we get two of them and call zgemm on them?
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2021-05-27 09:54:03	Ziggurat	The program I am writing requires use of F1 button (why cant I change the button? Just because), it works fine, but if I run my program through ssh I need to TERM=xterm myprogram for F1 to work. Is there a way to do this inside my program? I tried os.environ.setdefault('TERM', 'xterm') but it didnt work
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2021-05-27 09:59:58	Ziggurat	os.environ['TERM'] = 'xterm' did solve my problem
2021-05-27 09:59:59	Ziggurat	:)
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2021-05-27 10:09:38	MrElendig	having your terminal emulator setting TERM correctly should solve the problem
2021-05-27 10:10:00	MrElendig	and of course having the needed terminfo installed on the remote
2021-05-27 10:10:01	tos9	Ziggurat: That makes your program very unportable, but if you're ok with that then sure that's fine as a hack.
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2021-05-27 10:10:25	tos9	(that or the SSH client or server is ignoring passing along the TERM variable)
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2021-05-27 10:36:02	IoannisJVM	How can i get a value from multiple objects of a json list?
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2021-05-27 10:39:05	SnoopJ	IoannisJVM, that's a pretty vague question. You should show us the data and your desired output.
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2021-05-27 10:40:20	IoannisJVM	SnoopJ if you see here https://dpaste.org/MhKs
2021-05-27 10:40:39	IoannisJVM	i have in the Json an EMS list with 2 objects
2021-05-27 10:40:51	IoannisJVM	and i need to get the ids of both those objects
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2021-05-27 10:42:20	Saradt	Hi humanoids. I insert in a database a Turkish letter: Ş, but the database decides to store it as a normal S. Assuming this cannot be fixed in the environment... Is there a way I can do a string comparison, ignoring these things, other than a lot of hotfixes of replacing stuff.
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2021-05-27 10:44:56	mefistofeles	Saradt: I suggest you join us at irc.libera.chat #python
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2021-05-27 10:47:04	Saradt	Oh, right, the whole lizards bought freenode thing :(
2021-05-27 10:47:14	rcm888	how to fix this: OSError: [Errno 98] Address already in use ?
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2021-05-27 10:49:07	stealth_	rcm888, is this socket related ?
2021-05-27 10:51:18	rcm888	yes
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2021-05-27 10:52:39	stealth_	rcm888, you need to add `server.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, True)`
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2021-05-27 10:53:21	AhmedAmerican	@nedbat https://bpa.st/2HIA which checker version is the correct one? 1,2 or 3 ?
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2021-05-27 10:57:47	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, they could all be correct, its just different way to write it
2021-05-27 10:58:09	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, also depends what this `channel` is and if it supports `with` statement
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2021-05-27 11:34:27	bjs	AhmedAmerican: 1 and 3 are the same thing;  2 creates a new AsyncClient for each ip which may be what you want or not.
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2021-05-27 11:34:53	bjs	AhmedAmerican: also note that many of the people who usually answer your questions have moved to #python on irc.libera.chat
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2021-05-27 11:35:08	ramsub07	Hello. Can someone please explain me what "*" would mean as a parameter to a function?
2021-05-27 11:35:10	ramsub07	example : https://github.com/lucidrains/siren-pytorch/blob/6be0c37cb7a96237abbd54633e51f8b7f22bfc88/siren_pytorch/siren_pytorch.py#L141
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2021-05-27 11:35:41	AhmedAmerican	@bjs got it. Thank you.
2021-05-27 11:35:42	yitz	ramsub07: indicates all following args must be kwargs
2021-05-27 11:36:08	ramsub07	what's the difference between that and **kwargs and inside the function, as in my example, kwargs['latent'] ?
2021-05-27 11:36:11	bjs	ramsub07: so `def f(x, *, y)` here y is keyword only
2021-05-27 11:36:18	bjs	ramsub07: **kwargs accepts any number of keywords
2021-05-27 11:36:27	<--	LucaTM (~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-27 11:36:32	yitz	Inverse of PEP570...
2021-05-27 11:36:34	bjs	ramsub07: `def f(x, **kwargs)` accepts any keyword arguments. `def f(x, *, y):` accepts, and requires, exactly 1
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2021-05-27 11:36:59	bjs	ramsub07: (well not quite true, in both examples "x" could also be passed as a keyword *argument*)
2021-05-27 11:37:00	ramsub07	bjs what is the difference between f(x, *, y=None):.. and f(x, y=None):..
2021-05-27 11:37:06	bjs	ramsub07: f(1,2)
2021-05-27 11:37:42	yitz	ramsub07: PEP-3102
2021-05-27 11:37:58	ramsub07	so when I'd want to pass something for y, it should be done as `something  = f(1, y=100) ` ?
2021-05-27 11:38:04	yitz	Yup
2021-05-27 11:38:05	bjs	ramsub07: yes
2021-05-27 11:38:15	bjs	ramsub07: `f(x=1, y=2)` and `f(1, y=2)` are valid. But `f(1, 2)` is not
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2021-05-27 11:38:19	bjs	for `def f(x, *, y)`
2021-05-27 11:38:24	yitz	s/should/must/
2021-05-27 11:38:27	ramsub07	hmm.. interesting. thank you bjs and yitz
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2021-05-27 11:38:53	bjs	ramsub07: also note for you too, that most of the people who usually answer your questions have moved to #python on irc.libera.chat , so if it's quiet here it may be worth checking there
2021-05-27 11:38:55	bjs	in future
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2021-05-27 11:39:32	ramsub07	oh! thanks for remembering and informing
2021-05-27 11:39:40	ramsub07	is there a reason for this migration?
2021-05-27 11:39:47	bjs	ramsub07: yes there is a reason.
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2021-05-27 11:40:08	bjs	ramsub07: the link in the /TOPIC has a brief overview https://www.pound-python.org/
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2021-05-27 11:41:01	ramsub07	bjs sorry got disconnected
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2021-05-27 11:41:22	bjs	ramsub07: ah, all I said was that yes there is a reason for the migration and the link in the /TOPIC gives a brief overview of it https://www.pound-python.org/
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2021-05-27 11:41:46	bjs	ramsub07: I'm sure someone in the #python-offtopic channel on libera would be happy to go into detail about exactly why the move happened in more detail ;)
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2021-05-27 12:10:57	sybariten	hey hey! It's me again
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2021-05-27 12:12:22	sybariten	I'm making a function where i'm using someValue.isalpha() to check if a password is only alphabetic letters, and in that case not letting it pass as a good password.
2021-05-27 12:12:49	twobitsprite	anyone know if there is a way to tell the celery worker to call a function to get the celery app object instead of needing it to be a global?
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2021-05-27 12:13:06	sybariten	but this is cheating, cause my actual task is to check if the string contains at least one number. Is there a clever way to do that without writing a function that loops over the string?
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2021-05-27 12:13:21	twobitsprite	I'm running in to a lot of circular import errors
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2021-05-27 12:13:39	sybariten	what i mean is, for now i could have a string like kjhkHKJ-ghG pass, cause it contains a dash which is not "alpha"
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2021-05-27 12:19:52	kosh	sybariten, please don't do something stupid like that, requiring numbers, symbols etc does not make the password more secure, it just makes it harder to remember
2021-05-27 12:19:57	kosh	systemdave, just require longer passwords
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2021-05-27 12:23:24	gcbirzan	sybariten: Do not do that. Look into libraries that handle this stuff for you
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2021-05-27 12:26:14	itai	hi there
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2021-05-27 12:26:43	itai	I have problems uninstalling python3.6 that I compiled from source. `make uninstall` doesn't work
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2021-05-27 12:27:26	itai	It returns: No rule to kmake target uninstall
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2021-05-27 12:28:31	habnabit_	sybariten, if you want to validate passwords, use zxcvbn
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2021-05-27 12:29:00	habnabit_	itai, you can just rm it
2021-05-27 12:29:05	itai	how
2021-05-27 12:29:09	itai	?
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2021-05-27 12:29:42	itai	how do I know where various packages have been installed while compiling?
2021-05-27 12:30:01	habnabit_	itai, what flags did you pass ./configure ?
2021-05-27 12:30:13	itai	I passed no flags
2021-05-27 12:30:21	itai	just ran ./configure
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2021-05-27 12:32:05	itai	habnabit_: is it still possible to remove it in this case?
2021-05-27 12:32:13	AhmedAmerican	how to get hostname from ip address ? i tried `await trio.socket.getaddrinfo(ip, 443, trio.socket.NI_NAMEREQD)`
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2021-05-27 12:33:49	habnabit_	itai, sorry, i'm paying more attention to the new network. have you seen there's been a move?
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2021-05-27 12:34:21	itai	AhmedAmerican: urllib.parse.urlparse(url).hostname
2021-05-27 12:34:46	itai	habnabit_: I needed to install 3.6 for an outdated software
2021-05-27 12:35:00	habnabit_	itai, pyenv helps with that
2021-05-27 12:35:08	itai	habnabit_:
2021-05-27 12:35:11	itai	habnabit_: thanks
2021-05-27 12:35:12	habnabit_	itai, you can look in /usr/local but there might be other stuff there
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2021-05-27 12:35:32	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, wait, why do you need a host name when you already have ip!
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2021-05-27 12:35:58	itai	neverthelss, I still have to uninstall what has been compiled
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2021-05-27 12:36:19	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, which hostname do you want? a PTR lookup?
2021-05-27 12:37:00	AhmedAmerican	all what i need is to convert an IP address to the site name.
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2021-05-27 12:37:14	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, ok, which 'site name' do you mean?
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2021-05-27 12:37:29	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, what you're talking about isn't a standard process if you don't mean a PTR/rDNS lookup?
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2021-05-27 12:37:59	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, 1 ip can have multiple domain names assigned to it
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2021-05-27 12:38:43	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, you normally look up ip by domain name `host = socket.gethostbyname(domain)`
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2021-05-27 12:38:55	AhmedAmerican	for example 100.96.29.162 --->  `wealthywalker.com`
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2021-05-27 12:39:16	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, how did you do that lookup?
2021-05-27 12:39:29	AhmedAmerican	100.96.29.163] --> `citycarrental.com`
2021-05-27 12:39:31	AhmedAmerican	just using ping
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2021-05-27 12:40:21	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, i think i might know what you mean but can you pastebin/screenshot what you're looking at that shows that name with ping?
2021-05-27 12:40:29	stealth_	those could just be router host name!
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2021-05-27 12:42:28	AhmedAmerican	@habnabit_  https://i.imgur.com/V4mEnOh.png
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2021-05-27 12:42:59	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, is this windows?
2021-05-27 12:43:05	AhmedAmerican	Yes
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2021-05-27 12:43:33	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, you typed `ping citycarrental.com`, not `ping 100.96.29.163`
2021-05-27 12:43:45	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, there isn't a reverse mapping there
2021-05-27 12:44:10	AhmedAmerican	Yes, now if i do have the IP, can i get the website name ?
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2021-05-27 12:44:26	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, you cannot
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2021-05-27 12:45:11	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, in some cases, you can, but this mapping doesn't exist here. the best you can do is have a database of all DNS records and try to correlate it
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2021-05-27 12:45:23	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, so no, it's not possible
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2021-05-27 12:46:43	AhmedAmerican	sometimes `socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)[0]` is returning the hostname. is it using the system dns by default ?
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2021-05-27 12:47:15	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, this is a 'PTR lookup' as i mentioned before
2021-05-27 12:47:25	habnabit_	AhmedAmerican, it can exist sometimes
2021-05-27 12:47:41	grawity	tbh, even that forward lookup seems suspicious
2021-05-27 12:47:56	grawity	due to it having a private IP address
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2021-05-27 12:48:09	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, those are isp/router/hosting providers host name at best! which can't really be trusted
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2021-05-27 12:48:46	grawity	I've seen routers which literally make up fake PTR records, too
2021-05-27 12:48:49	habnabit_	grawity, ..? what private block do you mean
2021-05-27 12:48:57	grawity	habnabit_: 100.64.0.0/10
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2021-05-27 12:49:29	habnabit_	oh, carrier-grade NAT
2021-05-27 12:49:30	grawity	I wonder if it's some NAT46 implementation
2021-05-27 12:49:45	stealth_	AhmedAmerican, dnd services don't like to give out what domains they are hosting! that would be a security flaw
2021-05-27 12:49:50	stealth_	dns*
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2021-05-27 12:50:17	grawity	more importantly, the same IP address could easily belong to hundreds of different websites
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2021-05-27 12:50:52	stealth_	it would be like banks giving out their clients account info
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2021-05-27 12:50:54	grawity	for example, here I see citycarrental.com resolving to 104.26.6.78 and 172.67.74.221
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2021-05-27 12:51:07	grawity	which are CloudFlare CDN addresses – they host *thousands* of sites
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2021-05-27 13:12:51	aenesidemus	`Vector = list[float]` gives `TypeError: 'type' object is not subscriptable`
2021-05-27 13:12:53	aenesidemus	what's happenin here
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2021-05-27 13:13:19	Peng	What do you want that code to do?
2021-05-27 13:13:39	aenesidemus	https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html#type-aliases
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2021-05-27 13:14:12	habnabit_	aenesidemus, add `from __future__ import annotations` to the top of your module
2021-05-27 13:14:27	Peng	Oh
2021-05-27 13:14:29	Peng	I didn't know that was a thing. :D
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2021-05-27 13:14:51	aenesidemus	habnabit_, not working still. maybe a jupyter notebook quirk?
2021-05-27 13:15:02	Peng	aenesidemus: What version of Python are you using?
2021-05-27 13:15:06	habnabit_	aenesidemus, i don't know how notebooks interact with __future__
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2021-05-27 13:16:01	aenesidemus	3.8.5
2021-05-27 13:16:01	manuels	I have absolutely no clue, but do you guys move to libera?
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2021-05-27 13:16:36	habnabit_	manuels, yes
2021-05-27 13:16:38	Peng	manuels: Yes, see https://www.pound-python.org/
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2021-05-27 13:17:49	manuels	sorry for nitpicking, but what makes this website credible?
2021-05-27 13:18:01	yitz	Heya rindolf
2021-05-27 13:18:21	habnabit_	manuels, //pound-python.org
2021-05-27 13:18:22	habnabit_	oops
2021-05-27 13:18:26	habnabit_	manuels, https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-27 13:19:34	rindolf	yitz: meow! how are you?
2021-05-27 13:20:14	yitz	rindolf: Tired. On call this week which means waking up office-based time (EST) though I live PST. i.e. 6am alarms. How are things with you?
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2021-05-27 13:20:49	rindolf	yitz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNYI3iINXrQ
2021-05-27 13:21:03	manuels	>CONNECT TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT FOR ALL YOUR CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NEEDS
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2021-05-27 13:21:09	manuels	wtf is this kindergarden about?
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2021-05-27 13:24:54	yuesbeez	Whats the best way to get all characters before the second period/decimal point in a string?
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2021-05-27 13:26:08	@habnabit_	yuesbeez, .split or .partition
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2021-05-27 13:26:13	--	Mode #python [-o habnabit_] by habnabit_
2021-05-27 13:26:21	rindolf	yitz: i brought the 'queen padmé [amidala] tales' pilot to a usable state: https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/1397809375339814915 ; i'd appreciate retweets
2021-05-27 13:26:31	habnabit_	yuesbeez, what's the format?
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2021-05-27 13:27:29	yitz	I don't have a Twitter account
2021-05-27 13:27:57	rindolf	yuesbeez: there is 'import re' too
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2021-05-27 13:31:47	rindolf	yitz: "yawn! tl;dr... do you even tweet, bro?"
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2021-05-27 13:32:03	rindolf	;)
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2021-05-27 13:32:58	kosh	twitter and facebook are like mos eisley
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2021-05-27 13:33:43	rindolf	yitz: it sucks to wake up by alarms
2021-05-27 13:33:52	cousteau	nedbat: still getting away with it, I see :)
2021-05-27 13:34:17	rindolf	kosh: heh
2021-05-27 13:34:35	kosh	you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
2021-05-27 13:35:27	yitz	I always wake up to alarms...
2021-05-27 13:35:28	rindolf	kosh: we must be cautious
2021-05-27 13:35:35	yitz	I Tweeted last decade!
2021-05-27 13:35:58	kosh	I don't have a twitter account eithers
2021-05-27 13:36:03	kosh	rindolf, hehe
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2021-05-27 13:39:42	halabund	Is there a simple and fast way to convert a list of dictionaries to a dictionary of lists, using None for missing elements? Example: [{'a':1},{'a':2,'b':1},{'a':3,'b':4}]   -->   {'a': [1,2,3], 'b': [None, 1, 4]}
2021-05-27 13:39:49	rindolf	kosh: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Queen-Padme-Tales/Queen-Padme-Tales--Planting-Trees.html#helping-planet-spaceball - spaceballs fic
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2021-05-27 13:42:12	KirkMcDonald	halabund: Does this imply that the set of keys is known a priori?
2021-05-27 13:42:40	halabund	KirkMcDonald: No. The set of keys would have to be retrieved from the list of dictionaries.
2021-05-27 13:43:03	halabund	KirkMcDonald: In my example, you don't know that there is a key "b" until you have seen the 2nd element of the list.
2021-05-27 13:43:06	KirkMcDonald	halabund: So you'd need to make two passes over the list.
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2021-05-27 13:44:18	halabund	KirkMcDonald: I am not experienced at all with Python. I would have expected that there's something built-in for this. Is there not? I guess I can cobble together a solution, but I was hoping for a performance (important) and simple (less important) solution.
2021-05-27 13:44:29	halabund	performant*
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2021-05-27 13:45:39	KirkMcDonald	halabund: This exact operation is not built-in, but it is not hard to do: https://bpa.st/A25Q
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2021-05-27 13:47:13	halabund	KirkMcDonald: Thanks so much for the complete code example!  Is repeated .append()ing not make this slow? In some languages appending has cost proportional to the list length, making repeated appending be O(n^2)
2021-05-27 13:47:30	KirkMcDonald	halabund: list.append performs in amortized constant time.
2021-05-27 13:47:37	halabund	Great!
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2021-05-27 13:49:37	gcbirzan	There's a wiki page about this
2021-05-27 13:51:02	gcbirzan	KirkMcDonald: I literally can never get over how weird the nested list comprehension/* stuff looks.
2021-05-27 13:51:19	gcbirzan	I just always want to read it the other way around
2021-05-27 13:51:28	KirkMcDonald	It does have this weird inside-out quality to it.
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2021-05-27 13:53:23	SnoopJ	I tripped over it a lot until I internalized the "once you're into the loopy part, read it in exactly the same order you would in a block" rule
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2021-05-27 14:18:11	sybariten	kosh: its not a real world case, it'
2021-05-27 14:18:20	sybariten	kosh: its not a real world case, it's not about the password :)
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2021-05-27 14:25:24	sybariten	gcbirzan: habnabit_ : the task wasnt really about the passwords, it was an exercise  :)
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2021-05-27 14:39:51	yuesbeez	habnabit_: 10.15.7 or 11.2.3 for example I just need 10.15 or 11.2
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2021-05-27 14:47:49	yuesbeez	I know I can do os_version.split(".", 2)[:2] but I was wondering if theres a better way without making an array
2021-05-27 14:48:38	yuesbeez	I am basically going to convert that output to a string and compare the strings
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2021-05-27 14:49:27	yuesbeez	sorry list not array
2021-05-27 14:49:51	yuesbeez	Apparently the == operator works on lists, so I'll use that unless theres a better way
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2021-05-27 14:51:18	stealth_	yuesbeez, are you trying to compare version?
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2021-05-27 14:57:25	Agustin2021	hi
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2021-05-27 14:59:20	Agustin2021	category = marcas[0].str.rsplit(r'\( | /', n=1, expand=True)
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2021-05-27 15:00:18	Agustin2021	I need to split based on 2 delimeters: ' ( ' or '/' . That's not working. Any ideas?
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2021-05-27 15:02:16	stealth_	yuesbeez, you shouldn't compare string `'1.12' > '1.2' # False` you could use `LooseVersion('1.12') > LooseVersion('1.2')  # True` which is in `from distutils.version import LooseVersion`
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2021-05-27 15:26:09	crissae	Anyone know how to keep the tqdm progress bar from outputting a trailing line after the script ends?  Not sure why this is happening.
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2021-05-27 15:28:16	sartan	you could always do re.split(r'\(|\||\)',  marcas)
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2021-05-27 15:33:31	nedbat	crissae, sartan: we are mostly moving to іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt, answers might be quicker there
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2021-05-27 15:35:11	djapo	hey whats goin on with freenode, I got a different greeting than the regular random quote from random historical figures
2021-05-27 15:35:48	nedbat	djapo: freenode is under new management, and many channels are choosing to move to іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
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2021-05-27 15:38:09	djapo	nedbat: oh, does irc.libera.chat offer cloaks ?
2021-05-27 15:38:23	Peng	djapo: Yes
2021-05-27 15:38:25	nedbat	djapo: yes, it's being run by the old freenode staff, in very much the same way
2021-05-27 15:38:56	Peng	Though Libera has *automated* cloaks :)
2021-05-27 15:39:15	djapo	nedbat: ah, neat. where do I ask for a cloak ?
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2021-05-27 15:41:18	Peng	djapo: #libera-cloak
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2021-05-27 15:42:43	djapo	awesome, ill make a note of it for when I have more time to check out libera
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2021-05-27 16:29:21	sartan	nedbat, I'm in both... Until this place is closed...
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2021-05-27 16:42:29	synthetek	lol@this place closing
2021-05-27 16:43:47	habnabit_	yeah, channels aren't allowed to 'close' on freenode
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2021-05-27 16:44:29	Peng	A policy that may or may not be a "draft" that was announced after staff started hijacking channels and can be discussed in a troll channel where discussing things can get you k-lined
2021-05-27 16:44:33	Peng	:>
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2021-05-27 16:54:45	roxfan	one channel i was in set +l 1 and kicked everyone
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2021-05-27 16:55:14	habnabit_	roxfan, yeah, that's considered against policy
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2021-05-27 16:56:15	Tashtari	It was "policy" in East Germany that you weren't allowed to leave, too.
2021-05-27 16:56:43	stealth_	what does it matter what the policy is if you want everyone to leave
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2021-05-27 16:57:13	habnabit_	stealth_, 'violating policy' gets your channel taken over in non-helpful ways
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2021-05-27 16:57:51	stealth_	habnabit_, couldn't you write a bot to notify user to move to ... and kick them out?
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2021-05-27 17:03:53	VaniasPy	hi,how can i get the value  from two objects in a json list? For example here https://dpaste.org/jvZa
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2021-05-27 17:04:07	VaniasPy	i need the id's from both the objects of EMS list
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2021-05-27 17:04:46	habnabit_	VaniasPy, they're just python lists and dicts when deserialized. do you know how to index a list or dict?
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2021-05-27 17:05:11	VaniasPy	yes
2021-05-27 17:05:32	habnabit_	VaniasPy, well, then do that
2021-05-27 17:05:36	VaniasPy	but my problem is that i should do that dynamically
2021-05-27 17:05:56	habnabit_	VaniasPy, what part of that is the problem?
2021-05-27 17:06:03	VaniasPy	not my hard coding list[0]["etc"]
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2021-05-27 17:06:49	habnabit_	VaniasPy, ok. so you want a for loop, perhaps in a comprehension
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2021-05-27 17:07:05	VaniasPy	habnabit_ let me show you the code as well,it might help
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2021-05-27 17:08:32	VaniasPy	habnabit_ here it is https://dpaste.org/4oSn
2021-05-27 17:08:57	VaniasPy	this returns only the id of one object in the list
2021-05-27 17:09:18	habnabit_	VaniasPy, okay. so you want a list of all the ids?
2021-05-27 17:09:32	stealth_	VaniasPy, ids = [i['id'] for i in a['EMS']]
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2021-05-27 17:10:04	VaniasPy	habnabit_ yeah
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2021-05-27 17:10:30	habnabit_	VaniasPy, then what stealth_ said
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2021-05-27 17:11:35	VaniasPy	yeah,that one worked! ty!
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2021-05-27 17:40:00	smccarthy	I use vscode and pycharm interchangeably for my python projects. Is there a settings file I can use to tell it to always use 4 spaces (spaces not tabs) for indentation ? Would I need a different file for vscode and pycharm , or is there a python package that can set that up?
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2021-05-27 17:41:12	Pickchea	Hey, when I have to provide a keyword argument where the key contains a space, is `fun(pos1, pos2, **{'with space' : value})` a good / the only way?
2021-05-27 17:41:30	habnabit_	Pickchea, the only way, yes. ideally, don't need to do that, but..
2021-05-27 17:43:54	nedbat	smccarthy: create a .editorconfig file in your repo https://editorconfig.org/
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2021-05-27 17:44:07	Pickchea	habnabit_, OK, thanks. It's a bit of a corner case. I'm using a library that let's me set "attributes" with kwawrgs for vertices in a graph that can be queried with `graph[vertex][key]` and the key for the attribute can contain white space.
2021-05-27 17:44:21	smccarthy	nedbat: thanks ! Thats what I was looking for . I knew I've seen something like it in the past
2021-05-27 17:44:32	nedbat	smccarthy: btw, we are moving over to іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
2021-05-27 17:44:49	smccarthy	perfect, I'll get there (I heard about all the crazyness with freenode the past few weeks)
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2021-05-27 17:46:10	palasso	smccarthy: btw most probably both VSCode and PyCharm use 4 spaces for indentation in python by default anyways
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2021-05-27 17:58:00	smccarthy	palasso: I am not sure why (maybe I screwed something up), but my .py files in vscode was set to 2 spaces.
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2021-05-27 18:03:37	palasso	smccarthy: I believe your VSCode user settings are in: ~/.config/Code/User/settings.json and you may have a line with: "editor.tabSize": 2
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2021-05-27 18:04:10	palasso	smccarthy: you can also search for "Editor:Tab Size" in the settings of VSCode
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2021-05-27 18:05:04	smccarthy	palasso: But I use VsCode for node as well, and there I do want 2 as the tabSize.
2021-05-27 18:05:23	smccarthy	I mostly used VsCode for node, so the User setting is set to 4
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2021-05-27 18:08:27	palasso	smccarthy: in that case you definitely need some form of per-project config for that. Some ways to do is to have a user setting of 4 and for specific workspaces 2 when you need it or the opposite. The settings are split per user and per workspace and workspace settings override user settings as they are more specific. I think you can also change it in the status bar on the bottom (with the default theme) but I don't know if that changes the setting
2021-05-27 18:08:27	palasso	per workspace, you'll have to experiment with that
2021-05-27 18:08:51	palasso	smccarthy: or alternatively you can install the VSCode extension for .editorconfig
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2021-05-27 18:09:20	palasso	*(blue with the default theme)
2021-05-27 18:09:59	smccarthy	I installed the editor config extension. Worked like a charm !
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2021-05-27 18:14:42	palasso	smccarthy: awesome :)
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2021-05-27 18:53:19	MD500_Pilot	hey within my python scripts if I am accessing a file that is based on where the scripts is being run/installed from, rather than hardcode the entire path, is `sys.path[0]` the best way to do that?
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2021-05-27 18:55:33	Tashtari	MD500_Pilot: os.path.realpath(__file__) will give you the path to the script file it's in.
2021-05-27 18:56:28	SnoopJ	MD500_Pilot, the "most proper" solution is to use importlib.resources. When I am very sure my software won't be running in a context where __file__ will be meaningful (i.e. not in a zipapp or anything), then I do `HERE = pathlib.Path(__file__).parent.resolve()` (but you can drop the resolve() for modern Pythons IIRC)
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2021-05-27 18:57:32	MD500_Pilot	so if I want to say `with open (`/home/user/script/info.py`, 'r')` and `/home/user/script` is what I want to replace then I do something like `with open(HERE + `info.py`)`
2021-05-27 18:57:35	MD500_Pilot	?
2021-05-27 18:57:40	SnoopJ	Then I can do things like `RELATIVE_DATA = Path(HERE, "foo", "bar", "baz.dat").read_text()` or whatever needs relatively located
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2021-05-27 18:58:27	SnoopJ	MD500_Pilot, Path defines joining using the `/` operator, but honestly I don't like it. I usually use `Path(a, b)` or `a.joinpath(b)`
2021-05-27 18:58:49	MD500_Pilot	ah, ok I will try that
2021-05-27 18:58:52	MD500_Pilot	thank you
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2021-05-27 19:05:22	MD500_Pilot	thank You SnoopJ that worked great
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2021-05-27 19:37:17	sgt_chuckles	can I stream a video using the request module?
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2021-05-27 19:38:58	sgt_chuckles	because I see a stream option for the requests module: https://bpa.st/FOMQ
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2021-05-27 19:44:56	DarthGandalf	sgt_chuckles: you'll have bigger chance of getting the response on libera
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2021-05-27 19:46:04	sgt_chuckles	DarthGandalf: okay, what context can stream be used for btw?
2021-05-27 19:46:27	DarthGandalf	I don't know
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2021-05-27 19:46:55	DarthGandalf	My advice is to ask the question on irc.libera.chat #python
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2021-05-27 19:48:00	sgt_chuckles	what is libera?
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2021-05-27 19:49:26	DarthGandalf	sgt_chuckles: short story, freenode got a new management several days ago, kicked previous staff, and pissed everyone off freenode, and everyone moved to libera which is run by ex-freenode-staff
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2021-05-27 19:50:51	sgt_chuckles	ah
2021-05-27 19:51:03	DarthGandalf	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27286628 etc has more details
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2021-05-27 19:57:32	vacuumcat	I have a question
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2021-05-27 19:57:54	vacuumcat	new to python
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2021-05-27 19:58:46	DarthGandalf	vacuumcat: welcome, but please ask it at irc.libera.chat
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2021-05-27 19:59:13	vacuumcat	k thanks!
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2021-05-27 20:01:38	vacuumcat	>
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2021-05-27 20:50:11	disi	anyone know of a way to conditionally add an option to pytest (in a plugin) based on whether another plugin is installed? usually one would need access to config.pluginmanager, but config isn't exposed to pytest_addoption
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2021-05-27 21:00:37	NeilG	are there any good alternatives to functools.lru_cache?
2021-05-27 21:00:56	NeilG	I want to invalidate particular entries
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2021-05-27 21:01:49	pfloyd	what's the best way to replace N contiguous elements in a list with another list of M elements, where len(M) != len(N) ?
2021-05-27 21:02:21	NeilG	pfloyd, a[some_range] = b
2021-05-27 21:02:28	nedbat	pfloyd: L[x:x+N] = other
2021-05-27 21:02:30	pfloyd	e.g. if l1 has abc, def, ghi, jkl in it and I want to replace [abc, def] with [000, 111, 222]
2021-05-27 21:02:41	nedbat	pfloyd: just assign it
2021-05-27 21:02:44	pfloyd	ok so the slice size does not need to match what's being assigned
2021-05-27 21:02:48	nedbat	pfloyd: right
2021-05-27 21:02:52	pfloyd	must be a bug elsewhere in my code then, thanks
2021-05-27 21:03:06	pfloyd	that's what I'd tried, (badly) assumed that was culprit. thanks!
2021-05-27 21:04:08	pfloyd	appreciate it, cheers!
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2021-05-27 21:31:29	Thanatos	Hello everyone
2021-05-27 21:31:36	jarthur	howdy
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2021-05-27 21:33:21	matari	buenos dias muchachos y muchachas!
2021-05-27 21:33:30	matari	oh w8
2021-05-27 21:33:35	matari	buenos tardes!
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2021-05-27 21:46:02	veek	is there a python documentation tool that will walk the pkg hierarchy and print func signatures and the first para of doc.  I have to sed pydoc -w one at a time which is a pain
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2021-05-27 22:07:55	IronHEDGE	auto-py-to-exe: The term 'auto-py-to-exe' is not recognized ? anyone know how to fix this? My enviroment varibles are set right
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2021-05-27 22:28:50	NeilG	can functions ever be covariant on parameter type?
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2021-05-27 22:30:56	tos9	NeilG: What do you mean by covariant?
2021-05-27 22:31:01	tos9	NeilG: Are you asking about function overloading?
2021-05-27 22:31:12	NeilG	tos9, I'm trying to annotate a function decorator
2021-05-27 22:31:17	NeilG	a method decorator
2021-05-27 22:31:32	NeilG	but when I apply the decorator to a subclass method, it complains
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2021-05-27 22:32:29	NeilG	since the method decorator is annotated to decorate Callable[[Base], Any], then it won't let me use the decorator on a subclass method since Subclass<Base, and functions are typically contravariant on their parameters
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2021-05-27 22:34:31	NeilG	I guess I should make the class a generic type parameter?
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2021-05-27 22:36:45	raxor2k	Im here to get advice/opinions and suggestions on this one: I have 2 restAPIs running on two different ubuntu servers, and both of them uses the same database. the restAPI that is running in nodejs, has an auth login system which is required to get auth-token which is needed to use some POST and GET request. On my python(FastAPI) i dont have auth token system implemented. Can i still use both
2021-05-27 22:36:45	raxor2k	of them together, why or why not?
2021-05-27 22:37:21	raxor2k	the reason why i still want to use the python-restapi somehow is because it has some strong algorithms implemented already
2021-05-27 22:40:37	catbeard	raxor2k: i'd probably use transactions or some locking
2021-05-27 22:40:48	catbeard	if you have 2 diff apps on diff servers using the same db
2021-05-27 22:42:01	raxor2k	catbeard: the mobile app are going to use POST and GET from both APIs. Plan B here is to close the python restapi and use only node, but then i need to make all the algorithms that are already implemted on the python side, on nodeJS
2021-05-27 22:42:09	raxor2k	so if i can: I want to avoid that
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2021-05-27 22:53:31	MD500_Pilot	I am attempting to pass a file path to Paramiko and I keep getting the following error: `TypeError: Expected unicode or bytes, got PosixPath('/root/plot_manager/export/nas02_export.json')`
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2021-05-27 22:53:55	MD500_Pilot	`remote_export_file = script_path.joinpath(f'export/{harvester}_export.json')`
2021-05-27 22:54:44	MD500_Pilot	when I print that, I get the correct path and filename, but I guess Paramiko does not like PosixPaths
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2021-05-27 22:55:24	MD500_Pilot	`print(remote_export_file)`
2021-05-27 22:55:31	MD500_Pilot	`/root/plot_manager/export/nas02_export.json`
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2021-05-27 23:09:39	humanBird	import scipy;  scipy.fft(raw_audio_data) #{TypeError}'module' object is not callable        why is scipy.fft not callable?
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2021-05-27 23:20:22	humanBird	oh. some stupid package shifting around
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2021-05-27 23:20:48	humanBird	have to use scipy.fft.fft
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2021-05-27 23:28:30	ranran8888	hi when i write "insert or replace into table" if no need cheack if the the row in the table replce the items ?
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2021-05-27 23:34:35	NeilG	how do I make a pyqt layout relax faster?
2021-05-27 23:34:42	NeilG	it seems to relax over the course of like 30s
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2021-05-27 23:43:10	Tashtari	ranran8888 NeilG: This channel's mostly full of IRC bouncers owned by people who are long since deceased.  You might try #python on the network that this channel has moved to...
2021-05-27 23:43:20	Tashtari	More information at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-27 23:43:58	NeilG	Tashtari, ohhhh
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2021-05-27 23:45:20	NeilG	test
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2021-05-28 00:05:07	sgt_chuckles	when is len ever -1 in python?
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2021-05-28 00:05:50	Wulf	len = -1. Now.
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2021-05-28 00:32:12	catbeard	lol
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2021-05-28 02:03:15	famubu	Hi. Is there a way to convert time in one timezone to another time zone using a standard library module? Or do we need third-party libraries for that?
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2021-05-28 02:04:15	wyoung	famubu: There is.
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2021-05-28 02:04:39	famubu	wyoung: Using the zoneinfo module?
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2021-05-28 02:06:12	famubu	I suppose something else is also needed. That's the missing piece I couldn't find.. :-D
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2021-05-28 02:07:09	-->	__that__ (c33ba87e@195.59.168.126) has joined #python
2021-05-28 02:07:18	__that__	Morning everybody
2021-05-28 02:07:20	wyoung	pytz usually
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2021-05-28 02:07:30	wyoung	Afternoon __that__!
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2021-05-28 02:07:59	famubu	wyoung: No, is there a solution using just std library?
2021-05-28 02:08:05	famubu	(was just curious)
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2021-05-28 02:08:21	wyoung	famubu: Yes, datetime has the astimezone method.
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2021-05-28 02:08:51	wyoung	You use pytz to generate the tzinfo for you, but you can use UTC offsets if you want to
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2021-05-28 02:09:18	__that__	My docker container is showing a problem when trying to install aiohttp-36. It is saying that there is no a matching version as shown here: https://bpa.st/AQNQ
2021-05-28 02:09:25	famubu	wyoung: Okay, using astimezone(). Thank you.
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2021-05-28 02:09:52	__that__	The python version on the docker container is 3.6.9. By the message am I right to think that that python package is not compatible with python >= 3.6.2
2021-05-28 02:09:55	__that__	?
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2021-05-28 02:10:16	__that__	and therefore I may need to get the 3.7 version?
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2021-05-28 02:10:32	__that__	I mean the 3.7 version of aiohttp, of course
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2021-05-28 02:10:41	__that__	I cannot update Python, unfortunately
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2021-05-28 02:11:24	-->	^andrea^ (~^andrea^@110.199.93.209.dyn.plus.net) has joined #python
2021-05-28 02:11:26	Hash	There are too many python versions!
2021-05-28 02:11:28	Hash	OMG
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2021-05-28 02:11:54	Hash	python 2 will still be in use when python 4 comes
2021-05-28 02:12:00	Hash	and so forth!
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2021-05-28 02:13:13	Hash	You stay here?
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2021-05-28 02:13:32	Hash	May not go on libera now or maybe later> What are the python people gonna do?
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2021-05-28 02:14:04	Hash	Am I online?
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2021-05-28 02:14:27	Hash	I can't tell. No activity is happening on irc. No joins/parts/quits/people talking
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2021-05-28 02:14:40	Hash	I don't even see a +m
2021-05-28 02:14:49	Hash	Hello, if you see me please say hi!
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2021-05-28 02:15:57	kosh	Hash the channel moved
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2021-05-28 02:16:14	kosh	Hash, to libera.chat   https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-28 02:16:20	Hash	Oh ok thanks man!
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2021-05-28 02:16:26	Hash	Ghost town in here, I didn't know
2021-05-28 02:16:33	kosh	no probelm
2021-05-28 02:16:41	kosh	we have been directing people over there
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2021-05-28 02:16:57	kosh	you just started asking questions during a time of day when most are not awake yet :)
2021-05-28 02:17:04	Hash	Oh haha
2021-05-28 02:17:08	Hash	I am 12 midnight here :D
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2021-05-28 02:17:09	BrenBarn	I'm using this room via Matrix so I'm stuck here until they set up the bridge
2021-05-28 02:17:15	__that__	kosh, so the channel on libera is now the official one?
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2021-05-28 02:17:24	kosh	yes
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2021-05-28 02:17:44	kosh	https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 02:25:29	kosh	this channel mostly just has people idling now, we have moved most people over
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2021-05-28 02:25:53	Aaron	Lol
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2021-05-28 02:25:56	Aaron	Let's idle together
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2021-05-28 02:28:32	kosh	I just help people move over
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2021-05-28 02:30:58	greyblue9	sounds like a waste of fuel to have so much idling
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2021-05-28 02:51:58	kosh	maybe they use european cars that turn off the engines when idle
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2021-05-28 02:52:07	kosh	actually that was a weird thing in germany
2021-05-28 02:52:12	kosh	at a stop light the engines turn off
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2021-05-28 02:52:33	kosh	and it was done because of cell phones
2021-05-28 02:52:47	kosh	you can't use your cell phone while the engine is running so the engine stops whenever the vehicle stops
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2021-05-28 03:15:21	guriya	fast api documentation is very good, I read some where Concurrent Burgers.  Fastapi  #python choice for apis or is it DRF or flask?
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2021-05-28 03:17:55	jarthur	guriya I like it a lot and I would use it before picking DRF or Flask. I just wish it had a mechanism for loading application lifecycle dependencies, like an async context manager for a db connection pool
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2021-05-28 03:19:01	guriya	jarthur hmmm
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2021-05-28 03:21:13	caveman	how to do secure ipc?  i'm creating a password manager that uses ipc to potentially send passwords to another process.  basically main process loads database, and slave process tells the main process to do stuff, such as type passwords, or send passwords back sothat the slave process echos it to its stdout.
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2021-05-28 03:25:01	jarthur	caveman as far as I know, most forms of ipc are only as secure as your system's memory. If I were in your shoes, I would use pipes if my main process spawned the worker process as a subprocess. If not, I would use a Unix socket, maybe with unix datagrams to transport the passwords. With Unix socket, you can use Unix permissions and posix ACLs to control system users' access to the socket path.
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2021-05-28 03:26:00	caveman	but unix sockets could be read by a 3rd party.  e.g. another command that reads it before my process does.  no?
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2021-05-28 03:37:16	jarthur	caveman only one process can bind a unix socket to a path at a time, so no, at least not with basic userspace tools. But if the other command has access to system memory or is privileged enough to be able to use kernel tools for intercepting the datagrams, sure, it could probably compromise the things that are being memcopy'd behind the scenes
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2021-05-28 03:39:10	caveman	you're right.  so it will eventually boil down to securing the permission of the executables, so that only the right ones with the right user group will connect to them?
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2021-05-28 03:40:01	jarthur	Yes, you can run these processes as specific users and constrain the ability for either process to bind a socket to the path or send/read from it. One of the best features of unix sockets.
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2021-05-28 03:40:16	caveman	jarthur: alternatively, can i just cache passwords/logins?  because this is my whole issue which made me think of this ipc.  my goal is to type the password once, and retrieve passwords later on without being prompted.
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2021-05-28 03:42:10	jarthur	caveman you can, though designing a secure system for that could be really tedious. You might consider using a 3rd party one such as one covered by the keyring package:
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2021-05-28 03:42:23	jarthur	https://pypi.org/project/keyring/ | https://github.com/jaraco/keyring
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2021-05-28 03:47:56	mawk	calm down ^andrea^
2021-05-28 03:48:01	mawk	fix your connection
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2021-05-28 03:48:11	mawk	omg
2021-05-28 03:48:18	mawk	/ban ^andrea^!*@*
2021-05-28 03:48:25	jarthur	caveman I'm heading to bed. If you have more ideas/questions, note this channel is less active than it used to be https://www.pound-python.org/ might help you find your way
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2021-05-28 03:48:56	caveman	jarthur: is it due to libera?
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2021-05-28 03:49:14	kosh	yes the channel moved to libera
2021-05-28 03:49:19	kosh	https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-05-28 03:49:22	mawk	no it's still here
2021-05-28 03:49:24	mawk	please don't mov
2021-05-28 03:49:26	mawk	e
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2021-05-28 03:49:38	mawk	everyone come back plz
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2021-05-28 03:49:59	guriya	like you mawk
2021-05-28 03:50:01	jarthur	^andrea^ accepts your invite
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2021-05-28 03:50:16	kosh	the channel has officially moved
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2021-05-28 03:50:45	famubu	A doubt: When we say Python3.8+, is Python3.8 included?
2021-05-28 03:50:50	mawk	yes
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2021-05-28 03:51:02	famubu	Okay, thanks. :-)
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2021-05-28 03:51:21	mawk	omg ^andrea^ stop
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2021-05-28 03:52:18	kosh	I doubt they even see what their computer is doing
2021-05-28 03:52:27	famubu	maybe it's a connection problem?
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2021-05-28 04:10:48	varaindemian	can I replace 'parsed' here with something else so that the output will not be parsed? :D "fout.write(line.replace('{t4}', parsed['payload']['request_raw']))"
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2021-05-28 04:12:01	varaindemian	I mean I want a continous raw, string
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2021-05-28 04:12:19	varaindemian	not something beautified
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2021-05-28 04:12:32	varaindemian	you probably know what I mean
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2021-05-28 04:16:06	varaindemian	when I try without 'parsed' I get TypeError: list indices must be integers, not str
2021-05-28 04:16:12	varaindemian	anybody?
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2021-05-28 04:19:46	mawk	varaindemian: fout.write(line) ?
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2021-05-28 04:19:53	mawk	if you don't want to replace the {t4} stuff
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2021-05-28 04:20:19	varaindemian	mawk: I want to replace {t4}
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2021-05-28 04:20:39	mawk	you said you want the output not parsed
2021-05-28 04:20:45	mawk	I don't know what that means then
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2021-05-28 04:22:09	varaindemian	mawk: I want to replace {t4} but keep the text that will take it's place unformatted if that makes sense for you
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2021-05-28 04:22:21	varaindemian	its place*
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2021-05-28 04:23:13	mawk	nothing is formatting the text that takes its place
2021-05-28 04:23:17	mawk	in your piece of code
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2021-05-28 04:23:21	mawk	it's just replaced verbatim
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2021-05-28 04:24:15	varaindemian	mawk: 'formated' seems to do that that  :(
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2021-05-28 04:25:36	varaindemian	mawk: I mean 'parsed' not 'formated', sorry
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2021-05-28 04:26:04	varaindemian	if I  print(json.dumps(parsed, indent=3)) the text in ['payload']['request_raw'] is not formated
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2021-05-28 04:26:28	varaindemian	but if I try     fout.write(line.replace('{t4}', parsed['payload']['request_raw'])) it gets formateed
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2021-05-28 04:27:01	varaindemian	mawk: makes sense now??
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2021-05-28 04:28:44	mawk	why would you print json.dumps though varaindemian ?
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2021-05-28 04:29:00	mawk	it's not formatted when you don't use json.dumps, it's the reverse
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2021-05-28 04:30:41	mawk	when you use json.dumps your text is converted to json
2021-05-28 04:30:43	mawk	if you want to convert the text to json to put it in {t4} then do that
2021-05-28 04:30:43	mawk	but nothing is formatting your text
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2021-05-28 04:30:43	mawk	fout.write(line.replace('{t4}', json.dumps(parsed['payload']['request_raw'])))
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2021-05-28 04:30:43	kosh	varaindemian, this channel has moved to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 04:32:16	kosh	thanks
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2021-05-28 04:35:11	varaindemian	mawk:  fout.write(line.replace('{t4}', json.dumps(parsed['payload']['request_raw']))) solved my issue!!!
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2021-05-28 04:35:18	varaindemian	mawk: thank you!!
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2021-05-28 04:46:25	ramsub07	Hello. How do I change cache dir in pip?
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2021-05-28 04:53:31	Gurkenglas	In matplotlib: How do I combine a colormap with a ticker to get each color represented a reasonable number of times?
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2021-05-28 04:55:00	kosh	this channel has moved to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 05:26:36	varaindemian	Line 14 works only if I comment the for loop above it: https://pastebin.com/y8jdd2GX
2021-05-28 05:26:45	varaindemian	how can I make them both work?
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2021-05-28 05:30:48	varaindemian	anybody?
2021-05-28 05:31:18	kosh	this channel has moved to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 05:31:39	kosh	basically all the people that help are not really looking here anymore
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2021-05-28 05:43:49	VaniasPy	hello,how can i get the values from a specific field from all the objects in a json list? for example in this json here https://dpaste.org/7Scm
2021-05-28 05:44:01	VaniasPy	i need only the values of the ids of the objects
2021-05-28 05:45:00	VaniasPy	i tried something like         ems_ids = [int(v) for k,v in ems['id].items()]
2021-05-28 05:45:26	VaniasPy	but i got TypeError: list indices must be integers or slices, not str
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2021-05-28 05:47:03	kosh	VaniasPy, this channel has moved to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 06:53:05	habnabit_	VaniasPy, didn't se answer this yesterday..?
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2021-05-28 07:00:24	n00b101	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/zJJ5xhN0/
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2021-05-28 07:00:26	n00b101	heroku while pushing a flask app gives this error:
2021-05-28 07:00:50	n00b101	runtime.txt is Python-3.9.5
2021-05-28 07:01:14	n00b101	heroku supports 3.9.5 too https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/python-support#supported-runtimes
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2021-05-28 07:01:32	n00b101	stiil i cannot understand why it's saying this..
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2021-05-28 07:02:07	habnabit_	n00b101, this does sound like a heroku-specific error.. heroku support is probably a better angle
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2021-05-28 07:08:02	joe_	hi - I'm getting a syntax error on the first quote in the following piece of code. i cant for the life of me figure out why.. Any ideas?
2021-05-28 07:08:02	n00b101	removed runtime.txt since heroku by default uses 4.9.5 and its fixed
2021-05-28 07:08:03	joe_	https://bpa.st/ZPIA
2021-05-28 07:08:39	habnabit_	joe_, i don't know what `def f('x'):` means
2021-05-28 07:08:40	joe_	the syntax error is on the first quote of - hackernews_rss('https://news.ycombinator.com/rss'):
2021-05-28 07:08:52	habnabit_	joe_, why is there a string in your function def?
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2021-05-28 07:09:38	joe_	hi - I'm following a tutorial on - https://codeburst.io/building-an-rss-feed-scraper-with-python-73715ca06e1f
2021-05-28 07:09:41	habnabit_	joe_, you want to delete that try-except too because it won't do anything but hide debugging information
2021-05-28 07:09:46	habnabit_	joe_, i see
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2021-05-28 07:10:01	habnabit_	joe_, yeah this code is .. wrong
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2021-05-28 07:10:14	habnabit_	joe_, i don't know why they told you to do something this obviously incorrect
2021-05-28 07:10:24	joe_	ah right
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2021-05-28 07:10:49	habnabit_	joe_, and they tell you to use beautifulsoup instead of feedparser..? this is a very strange tutorial
2021-05-28 07:10:50	joe_	thanks - i just couldnt understand why it errors - but if its incorrect in the firstplace, I'll look elsewhere
2021-05-28 07:11:03	joe_	thank you - I'll give it a miss then
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2021-05-28 08:37:18	duszek	Can anyone find an error in a program?
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2021-05-28 08:38:25	habnabit_	duszek, we've mostly moved to libera.chat (see https://www.python.org/community/irc/ for details) but maybe
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2021-05-28 08:49:41	maum	hello
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2021-05-28 09:08:32	zuntik	Hi, is it ok to ask questions about python packaging here? I'm having some problems with python packaging.
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2021-05-28 09:10:05	kosh	zuntik, this channel has moved to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 09:12:01	Pilate	we'
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2021-05-28 09:12:31	zuntik	ok thank you Pilate. I'll ask there
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2021-05-28 10:02:31	vladoski	hey guys, is there a way to "overload" the . class method operator?
2021-05-28 10:02:53	vladoski	like if I want to do foo.baz I can get baz as a string and do whatever I want
2021-05-28 10:03:02	DarthGandalf	vladoski: hi, please ask this question at irc.libera.chat #python
2021-05-28 10:03:04	DarthGandalf	this channel moved
2021-05-28 10:03:53	vladoski	oh
2021-05-28 10:03:54	vladoski	okaty
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2021-05-28 10:06:32	rindolf	DarthGandalf: i want to chat here. don't be an authoritarian please!
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2021-05-28 10:06:48	DarthGandalf	I'm not
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2021-05-28 10:07:09	DarthGandalf	rindolf: the point is, there people have more chance to get the reply
2021-05-28 10:07:15	DarthGandalf	I'm not kicking anyone
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2021-05-28 10:08:42	vladoski	DarthGandalf, okay but: Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
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2021-05-28 10:09:08	rindolf	<DarthGandalf> this channel moved ==> more like 'split'/forked
2021-05-28 10:10:03	vladoski	oh okay even libera uses nickserv
2021-05-28 10:11:51	vladoski	although is it possible to do what I've just said?
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2021-05-28 10:13:49	DarthGandalf	That I do not know
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2021-05-28 10:14:12	vladoski	oh okay
2021-05-28 10:14:17	vladoski	i mean i see that Sqlalchemy kinda does it
2021-05-28 10:14:37	vladoski	but I don't know if it's a magic trick or something else built in python
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2021-05-28 10:20:12	kosh	rindolf, it is not split/forked, this channel was an official channel from the psf and that has moved to libera.chat
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2021-05-28 10:20:21	kosh	https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-28 10:20:47	kosh	all of those helping people are over there
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2021-05-28 11:16:16	zebrag	Is there still people here?
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2021-05-28 11:17:16	SnoopJ	Yes, but it has definitely gotten a lot quieter in here
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2021-05-28 11:19:14	zebrag	It was already difficult before, but now with the scattering of communication channels
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2021-05-28 11:19:16	LuxuryMode	Experiencing some issues using `requests` to issue a POST request. Examining the request object, it looks like it's doing a GET and also the headers I supplied don't seem to be used (shouldn't even be needed bc using `json=` should automatically set the content-type header to application/json): https://bpa.st/PWAA Any ideas?
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2021-05-28 11:19:22	zebrag	even more difficult
2021-05-28 11:20:24	SnoopJ	It's a difficult time, yep
2021-05-28 11:20:34	Tashtari	LuxuryMode: A substantial portion of the activity in this channel has moved.  See https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-28 11:20:52	LuxuryMode	ugh ok, thanks
2021-05-28 11:21:00	LuxuryMode	This freenode saga is sad :(
2021-05-28 11:21:22	Tashtari	It is.
2021-05-28 11:21:31	habnabit_	LuxuryMode, it was probably following a redirect
2021-05-28 11:21:32	LuxuryMode	#python on Libera?
2021-05-28 11:21:36	habnabit_	LuxuryMode, yes
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2021-05-28 11:22:03	LuxuryMode	habnabit_: don't think so because I'm getting back a response from the service. `{'errors': [{'message': 'Must provide query string.'}]}`
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2021-05-28 11:22:33	LuxuryMode	Which is my GraphQL service responding
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2021-05-28 11:23:02	LuxuryMode	I mean, you could be right, but doesn't seem like it
2021-05-28 11:23:36	LuxuryMode	The real issue I'm trying to resolve is that `Must provide query string.` error I'm getting back. I only started examining the request to see why it was failing.
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2021-05-28 11:23:58	LuxuryMode	And noticed that, at least AFAICT, it doesn't look like it's issuing a POST request with the body I supplied.
2021-05-28 11:24:29	LuxuryMode	When I print the `request.body` it is `None`
2021-05-28 11:24:32	habnabit_	LuxuryMode, add allow_redirects=False
2021-05-28 11:24:41	LuxuryMode	K, trying.
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2021-05-28 11:26:22	LuxuryMode	funny, adding that does show the right content-type, but get an exception `JSONDecodeError("Expecting value", s, err.value) from None`
2021-05-28 11:26:53	habnabit_	LuxuryMode, and the method?
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2021-05-28 11:27:31	LuxuryMode	POST!
2021-05-28 11:27:49	habnabit_	LuxuryMode, well, there you go
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2021-05-28 11:27:53	LuxuryMode	Wondering if I am using our https when I need to use http
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2021-05-28 11:31:52	LuxuryMode	oh lol this whole time I neded a trailing `/` at the end of my API url it seems
2021-05-28 11:31:55	LuxuryMode	hence the redirect
2021-05-28 11:32:15	LuxuryMode	Nice thought on the redirect, thanks habnabit_
2021-05-28 11:32:23	habnabit_	having a redirect on an API endpoint is a pretty bad idea
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2021-05-28 11:46:06	LuxuryMode	Agreed
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2021-05-28 11:47:24	LuxuryMode	In our Django urls we have `path('graphql/', csrf_exempt(CustomGraphQLView.as_view(graphiql=True)), name='graphql')` Seems to me that should really just be `path('graphql'...)` which would presumably also match for `graphql/`
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2021-05-28 12:15:06	disi	anyone know the best place to go for pytest chat? looks like the gitter may be dead
2021-05-28 12:15:42	SnoopJ	it's topical in #python, unless by "pytest chat" you mean like development of the library or something
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2021-05-28 12:17:05	disi	i feel like my pytest Qs might be a little specific for this chan :p  i usually ask about plugins, so actually not too far from libdev
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2021-05-28 12:18:20	SnoopJ	At least one maintainer is active is this community and has commented on plugins before :)
2021-05-28 12:18:24	SnoopJ	in* this
2021-05-28 12:19:06	disi	ah, gtk... maybe i just need to time it better to catch them
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2021-05-28 12:47:45	sudomann	What facilities do I have in a python project, to blacklist a dependecy?
2021-05-28 12:48:00	sudomann	I'm thinking something similar to `npm ci`
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2021-05-28 12:56:20	DarthGandalf	sudomann: you'll have better luck asking this question at irc.libera.chat #python
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2021-05-28 12:56:39	DarthGandalf	as the channel moved
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2021-05-28 13:04:06	SnoopJ	sudomann, not sure there is one. I don't know much about npm, but the `ci` there makes me wonder if this is for distinguishing between deploy/non-deploy? What's got you wanting to do this?
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2021-05-28 13:15:09	powerninja	Hi, I'm having issues extracting the GroupName from results; I tried json.dumps, but it's failing. Any help would be appreciated. see print(results) https://bpa.st/XWCQ
2021-05-28 13:15:34	habnabit_	powerninja, it's a list of dicts, so, index it
2021-05-28 13:15:45	habnabit_	powerninja, not sure what json would do here
2021-05-28 13:17:01	sudomann	SnoopJ job application question: "Imagine that we've learned the Python simplejson package has a major security vulnerability. The engineering teams have spent a few days replacing it with safer substitutes, so it's now secure and safe to ship. How would you ensure there are no regressions in the future? I.e., that no one adds the simplejson
2021-05-28 13:17:01	sudomann	package back in."
2021-05-28 13:17:17	sudomann	I've never been in this position so I wasnt sure
2021-05-28 13:17:30	sudomann	But my immediate instinct is to add a CI step
2021-05-28 13:17:31	powerninja	hehe that explains, I was trying to convert to json format and json_list('GroupName').
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2021-05-28 13:17:58	SnoopJ	sudomann, you could inspect the build artifact in CI to check for that dependency, sure
2021-05-28 13:18:10	sudomann	DarthGandalf wow I didnt realize the move would be so quick
2021-05-28 13:18:37	SnoopJ	sudomann, not sure exactly how that would go, maybe machinery available in importlib.metadata
2021-05-28 13:18:40	habnabit_	it happened days ago, in fact
2021-05-28 13:19:54	sudomann	Is there a way to get pip to produce a lockfile or something of the sort
2021-05-28 13:20:04	habnabit_	sudomann, no, but better tools do
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2021-05-28 13:21:21	n00b101	Imagine a python flask/Django server which does a specific task when we visit different endpoints.
2021-05-28 13:21:21	n00b101	/adduser with username and age value as JSON when sent to server with /adduser it adds that user to dB. In case of /deluser a username and age is sent in JSON format and it does that task.
2021-05-28 13:21:21	n00b101	So for each endpoints, it does some specific task. Is this called a REST API server or REST API...🤔
2021-05-28 13:22:41	habnabit_	n00b101, ambiguous antecedent. what is 'this' referring to?
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2021-05-28 13:23:59	n00b101	It's a general question
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2021-05-28 13:24:35	madmallard	Anybody here work with win32gui much
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2021-05-28 13:25:53	habnabit_	n00b101, i understand that it's a general question, but your general question is ambiguous
2021-05-28 13:26:06	habnabit_	n00b101, 'john is 12 and jim is 13. how old is he?'
2021-05-28 13:27:33	n00b101	When people say we use a REST API server or REST API call, do they mean that sort of server dealing with JSON data as I asked
2021-05-28 13:27:33	n00b101	?
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2021-05-28 13:28:14	habnabit_	n00b101, REST doesn't require JSON, no. the program which accepts connections is the 'server'. 'API' is a general term to describe the shape of how you interact with it
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2021-05-28 13:30:58	n00b101	If you can update your age stored in a server using /updateage endpoints by sending your email:age as JSON request. Isn't this a rest API request?
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2021-05-28 13:31:29	habnabit_	n00b101, sure, you could call it that
2021-05-28 13:31:45	n00b101	Therefore that is a REST API server?
2021-05-28 13:32:12	habnabit_	n00b101, a request is not a server
2021-05-28 13:32:45	n00b101	If it can deal with rest API calls, why couldn't it be a REST API server?
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2021-05-28 13:33:17	habnabit_	n00b101, a tree has fruit on it. is a fruit a tree?
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2021-05-28 13:34:47	n00b101	Imagine there are total 3 endpoints in that server and all gives similar, update, delete, insert feature using JSON calls
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2021-05-28 13:34:59	n00b101	Now isn't that a REST full server?
2021-05-28 13:35:09	n00b101	And all calls to it are rest API calls..?
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2021-05-28 13:35:29	habnabit_	n00b101, sure, you can issue REST API calls (requests) to a REST API server
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2021-05-28 13:36:19	n00b101	My question is, then will above be a rest API server/restful server?
2021-05-28 13:37:12	habnabit_	n00b101, that sounds like a tautology. you're asking if your REST API server is a REST AIP server?
2021-05-28 13:37:18	habnabit_	n00b101, that sounds like a tautology. you're asking if your REST API server is a REST *API server?
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2021-05-28 13:38:16	n00b101	Is rest API call is all about calling via JSON data?
2021-05-28 13:38:29	habnabit_	n00b101, no
2021-05-28 13:38:55	n00b101	What else can be there othethan JSON
2021-05-28 13:39:21	habnabit_	n00b101, xml isn't uncommon
2021-05-28 13:39:53	n00b101	And..?
2021-05-28 13:40:10	habnabit_	n00b101, do you need a full list?
2021-05-28 13:40:23	n00b101	Or any links of blog
2021-05-28 13:40:35	kosh	I would expect almost any standard format would be okay
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2021-05-28 14:20:12	jim	it;s just a hare risky to put "libare" (deliberate misspelling) into the topic... Lee took #perl down completely
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2021-05-28 14:26:44	nedbat	jim: thanks, we're monitoring the situation, which is volatile.  join us on the other server.
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2021-05-28 14:31:38	jim	nedbat, I'm already there (if it's libare)
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2021-05-28 14:40:15	ChrisWarrick	jim: Technically, the topic doesn’t say L-i-b-e-r-a.
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2021-05-28 14:42:59	jim	ChrisWarrick, actually, it does... what it doesn't say is "we're all leaving here and going there"
2021-05-28 14:43:34	habnabit_	jim, look again at the exact sequence of code points
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2021-05-28 14:44:16	jim	how do you see the code points?
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2021-05-28 14:44:57	ChrisWarrick	jim: [unicodedata.name(i) for i in "Lіbеrа"]
2021-05-28 14:46:21	jim	hmm. do I need to import unicodedata?
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2021-05-28 14:47:40	jim	(so that was a 'yes'; and then the comprehension worked)
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2021-05-28 16:09:51	ocb	hello. i'm new to python and trying to do the following. i have a number of functions doing their things. at the end of the function, data collected is stored inside an array. each function has it's own array. i'm also using sqlite db to store that data, which has two columns - 'name' and 'data', inside the 'data' i am planning to store all arrays with results of collected data of all functions but in json.
2021-05-28 16:09:57	ocb	the idea is to have something like this in the 'data' row. '{"cars": { "make": .... }, "trucks": { ... } at some times only some of the functions will be running and only some fields should be updated, for example truck colors. now my question what is the easiest or best way to get this working?
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2021-05-28 16:12:15	ocb	using 40 columns to store the data seems dirty and hardly scalable
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2021-05-28 16:13:40	DarthGandalf	ocb: hi, the channel has moved to libera chat (see topic), you'll have more chances to get the response over there
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2021-05-28 16:15:46	ocb	DarthGandalf: thanks :)
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2021-05-28 16:29:32	SoItBegins	I’m getting the darndest error.
2021-05-28 16:29:44	SoItBegins	I’ve gotten Python 3 installed as part of an OsGeo installation.
2021-05-28 16:29:55	SoItBegins	When I try to actually _run_ it, it says “no module named encodings".
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2021-05-28 16:30:14	SoItBegins	Changing PATH, PYTHONPATH, and PYTHONHOME have all been singularly unsuccessful.
2021-05-28 16:30:16	SoItBegins	Now what?
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2021-05-28 16:31:05	nedbat	SoItBegins: that sounds bad.  btw, we are mostly moved to іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt
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2021-05-28 16:31:13	SoItBegins	Good to know.
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2021-05-28 17:02:10	sartan	smartin: take a look at EditorConfig
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2021-05-28 17:05:28	samian	hi
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2021-05-28 17:07:13	samian	anyone know any ios app for learning python? I'm imagining an app that has a navigation side bar I can swipe open. The sidebar will have topics like "text file manipulation", "list comprehension", etc. I tap on one and snippets of example code appear
2021-05-28 17:07:42	DarthGandalf	samian: hi, the channel has moved to libera chat (see topic), you'll have more chances to get the response over there
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2021-05-28 17:08:08	samian	that way I can try memorizing the python language. I ask myself "how do I create a text file and write to it" and see if I can remember the answer and mentally code it in my mind.  If I can't remember, I can quickly look it up on the ios app I'm dreaming up
2021-05-28 17:08:20	samian	DarthGandalf,  okay!
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2021-05-28 17:40:13	n0cto	Hello all, I need help on this. I can no longer install packages or run python code that uses packages like 'requests'. I am on Windows and for instance, when trying to update pip I get the following error: ERROR: Could not install packages due to an OSError: HTTPSConnectionPool(host='files.pythonhosted.org', port=443): Max retries exceeded with url: /packages/cd/82/04e9aaf603fdbaecb4323b9e723f13c92c245f6ab2902195c53987848c78/pip-2
2021-05-28 17:40:13	n0cto	1.1.2-py3-none-any.whl (Caused by SSLError(SSLCertVerificationError(1, '[SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed: unable to get local issuer certificate (_ssl.c:1129)')))
2021-05-28 17:40:33	n0cto	Completely uninstalling, deleting the Python folders, and re-installing doesn't help either
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2021-05-28 17:41:25	Tashtari	n0cto:  The majority of the activity in this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python - you're more likely to get an answer if you go there.
2021-05-28 17:41:45	n0cto	ok thank you
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2021-05-28 17:48:36	vimart	"sets also help with memory management, if dealing with long lists of values , sets can help reduce memory usage by shortening the list"
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2021-05-28 17:50:49	vimart	I'm not an expert but I'd rather disagree based on that what I see: getsizeof([i for i in range(100)]) vs getsizeof({i for i in range(100)}) unless I don;t know something.
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2021-05-28 17:51:28	khs9ne	Hello. I'm having bad times with PyInstaller. I want to make a binary of a project of mine, and actually the binary is made in the dist/ directory, but when I run it it doesn't produce any output. I have made the build enabling the debug mode and this is what I see: https://paste.ofcode.org/ZsicFwq6rHfdPsHeTDcNex
2021-05-28 17:51:43	Tashtari	vimart khs9ne:  The majority of the activity in this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python - you're more likely to get an answer if you go there.
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2021-05-28 17:52:12	vimart	Tashtari: damn it so that's for true.
2021-05-28 17:53:01	Tashtari	vimart: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409/ If you need a primer on what's been going on.
2021-05-28 17:53:27	vimart	Cheers mate
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2021-05-28 17:53:49	Tashtari	Though this does not include the recent development that channels are getting taken over by the network if they dare to mention libera.chat in their topics.
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2021-05-28 17:55:22	vimart	"sets also help with memory management, if dealing with long lists of values , sets can help reduce memory usage by shortening the list"
2021-05-28 17:55:41	vimart	damn sorry mate
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2021-05-28 18:36:10	MD500_Pilot	I am on a quest to completely remove all hard coded paths in my scripts so that everything determines where it is at just by where the script lives, I am 99% of the way there but I am trying to figure out how I can do that with my logging.yaml file
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2021-05-28 18:36:49	MD500_Pilot	in my scripts I use: `script_path = pathlib.Path(__file__).parent.resolve()`
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2021-05-28 18:37:29	MD500_Pilot	but since the logging.yaml files is just a yaml file, I am trying to figure out how to fill in the path on the fly as it is read
2021-05-28 18:38:13	SnoopJ	MD500_Pilot, where does it live? If it's relative to the script, you can construct the path relative to script_path
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2021-05-28 18:38:35	MD500_Pilot	it ives anywhere the user installs it
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2021-05-28 18:39:23	MD500_Pilot	I rewrote all my scripts so that the end user would not have to go in and change any hard coded scripts, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to do the logging.yaml on the fly
2021-05-28 18:39:35	MD500_Pilot	I know I can do it during an install
2021-05-28 18:40:15	MD500_Pilot	or were you asking where `logging.yaml` lives?
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2021-05-28 18:40:29	MD500_Pilot	it lives in the same directory as the script
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2021-05-28 18:41:42	SnoopJ	I was asking the latter
2021-05-28 18:42:01	SnoopJ	`Path(script_path, "logging.yaml")` should do it
2021-05-28 18:42:03	MD500_Pilot	yes, it lives in the exact same directory as the main script
2021-05-28 18:42:24	MD500_Pilot	no, I mean the paths `inside` the logging.yaml file
2021-05-28 18:42:39	MD500_Pilot	`filename: /root/plot_manager/logs/info.log`
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2021-05-28 18:42:50	SnoopJ	sorry, I don't understand the task, then
2021-05-28 18:43:02	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: sounds like you might need to use a different way to configure your logging
2021-05-28 18:43:18	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: also, we are mostly going to be in іrс.lіbеrа.сhаt instead of here
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2021-05-28 18:43:38	MD500_Pilot	inside logging.yaml are the file paths to the log files, I want those to de dynamic based on where the scripts is installed
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2021-05-28 18:43:50	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: what uses the logging.yaml file?
2021-05-28 18:43:57	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: and what else is inside it?
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2021-05-28 18:44:26	MD500_Pilot	https://pastebin.com/5QKP00sD
2021-05-28 18:44:46	MD500_Pilot	is `irc.libera.chat` a new irc server I need to use?
2021-05-28 18:45:04	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: yes
2021-05-28 18:45:14	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: https://libera.chat has details
2021-05-28 18:45:22	MD500_Pilot	thanks
2021-05-28 18:45:59	MD500_Pilot	when will you guys be making that mvoe?
2021-05-28 18:46:24	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: we are already there
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2021-05-28 18:46:45	MD500_Pilot	ah, I'll jump over there then, see you in a few :-)  thanks for the heads up
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2021-05-28 18:50:16	MD500_Pilot	Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/44123698e3839a682f47de670b334521/screen%202021-05-28%20at%203.50.00%20PM.jpg
2021-05-28 18:50:26	MD500_Pilot	would not let me connect :-(
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2021-05-28 18:51:38	nedbat	MD500_Pilot: did you type the server name or copy it?  You should type it for it to be right.
2021-05-28 18:51:55	MD500_Pilot	I hand typed it like four time...
2021-05-28 18:52:38	MD500_Pilot	I'll try again...something stupid on my end I think, kiwiirc also has it as a builtin server, still would not connect
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2021-05-28 19:37:03	jebaiter	Hi everyone, where can I learn best practices for using pip and conda? I've been installing packages for 5-6ish years now, and I always seem to mess up something
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2021-05-28 19:42:14	nedbat	jebaiter: hi, we're mostly at libera.chat now
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2021-05-28 19:42:41	jebaiter	gotcha
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2021-05-28 19:44:55	jebaiter	nedbat: how do you identify in libera?
2021-05-28 19:45:12	jebaiter	very dumb question, but can't seem to create an account :)
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2021-05-28 19:46:21	nedbat	jebaiter: uh, the directions should be on https://libera.chat
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2021-05-28 19:47:27	meridion	jebaiter: specifically https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-05-28 19:47:57	jebaiter	ah, sorry about that
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2021-05-28 20:23:03	maum	hello
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2021-05-28 20:30:10	vdamewood	Wow. they didn't stay long.
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2021-05-28 21:12:20	jmacdonald	hello
2021-05-28 21:12:24	--	jmacdonald is now known as bignose99
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2021-05-28 21:14:25	bignose99	I'm on a Mac, trying to use an ansible module from ns1 (a dns provider) it imports ruamel.yaml. I've installed it. I can see it, it's _right there_ but I keep getting the error "ImportError: No module named ruamel.yaml"
2021-05-28 21:15:31	DarthGandalf	bignose99: hi, the channel has moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic), you'll have more chances to get the response over there
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2021-05-28 21:17:41	bignose99	Thanks JamesTPicard ;)
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2021-05-28 21:22:58	caveman	what's the best public private key encryption in python?
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2021-05-28 21:23:59	habnabit_	caveman, pynacl
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2021-05-28 21:27:48	caveman	ty.
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2021-05-28 21:29:20	caveman	habnabit_: is it a great one?  or is it just relatively the best?
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2021-05-29 00:14:21	caveman	best way to do secure ipc in python?  i'll be exchanging passwords, usernames, entries in my password manager.
2021-05-29 00:16:01	Tashtari	caveman:  The majority of the activity in this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python - you're more likely to get an answer if you go there.
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2021-05-29 00:16:23	caveman	yes.  freenode is dead.  thanks to the korean prince.
2021-05-29 00:16:51	Tashtari	Quite.
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2021-05-29 00:17:25	caveman	i'm trying to find some nice irc bouncer that accepts my tor connection.
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2021-05-29 00:17:57	caveman	libera doesn't accept tor unless SASL-ed.  but getting SASL-ed requires connecting without tor 1st!
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2021-05-29 00:25:43	caveman	Tashtari: to be fair to korea, he was born and raised in u.s.a., and christel sold to him freenode without informing the staff.
2021-05-29 00:26:10	Tashtari	So I'm told.
2021-05-29 00:26:26	caveman	it's all in wiki.
2021-05-29 00:27:03	caveman	but he is rich.  made lots of millions by his own work.  i wish i was that successful.
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2021-05-29 00:35:49	PedroG2	How can I create a file in another place (/dev/shm/p.log) when I can't create /var/log/p.log
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2021-05-29 00:38:05	PedroG2	I did something like this: try: fh = open("/var/log/p.log", 'w') except IOError: fh = open("/dev/shm/p.log", 'w')
2021-05-29 00:38:14	PedroG2	I feel something is not right
2021-05-29 00:39:02	PedroG2	Maybe, I need to close the first handle, then reopen it in the except block
2021-05-29 00:41:12	Tashtari	PedroG2:  The majority of the activity in this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python - you're more likely to get an answer if you go there.
2021-05-29 00:41:20	PedroG2	Thank you
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2021-05-29 01:11:00	rindolf	PedroG2: use "with": https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/with-statement-in-python/
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2021-05-29 01:11:16	PedroG2	rindolf, thank you
2021-05-29 01:11:33	rindolf	PedroG2: you're welcome
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2021-05-29 01:13:09	rindolf	PedroG2: where are you from?
2021-05-29 01:13:22	PedroG2	I am in california
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2021-05-29 01:15:23	rindolf	PedroG2: ah, where there?
2021-05-29 01:15:36	PedroG2	Sacramento
2021-05-29 01:16:07	rindolf	PedroG2: i live in tel aviv, .il
2021-05-29 01:16:40	PedroG2	Nice
2021-05-29 01:16:43	PedroG2	Yaffo tel aviv
2021-05-29 01:16:53	rindolf	PedroG2: ah the capital
2021-05-29 01:17:04	PedroG2	What does yaffo mean
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2021-05-29 01:18:34	rindolf	PedroG2: "yaffeh" means 'beatiful' in hebrew
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2021-05-29 01:19:16	PedroG2	Got it
2021-05-29 01:19:23	PedroG2	I heard Tel Aviv is super expensive to live
2021-05-29 01:19:36	PedroG2	Do people like to live in the Negev desert
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2021-05-29 01:20:38	rindolf	PedroG2: i live with my father
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2021-05-29 01:21:03	PedroG2	nice
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2021-05-29 01:22:30	rindolf	PedroG2: i have a character called 'Pedro' here: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/TOneW-the-Fountainhead/TOW_Fountainhead_2.html#the-fountainboys-in-the-mexican-town
2021-05-29 01:23:35	PedroG2	Gang stuff
2021-05-29 01:23:38	PedroG2	Make it cartel
2021-05-29 01:23:59	 *	rindolf is now playing: Double Trouble (Team Rocket) [00:13/03:52]
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2021-05-29 01:27:41	rindolf	PedroG2: heh, wynand in that fic kinda is a world controller
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2021-05-29 01:34:09	rindolf	PedroG2: what do you do?
2021-05-29 01:34:27	PedroG2	Unemployed at the moment
2021-05-29 01:35:04	rindolf	PedroG2: ah, so am i technically
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2021-05-29 01:42:33	rindolf	PedroG2: did you go to university?
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2021-05-29 03:19:05	scruz	is there a way to serve a static site using gunicorn? i did a toy cherrypy app yesterday where i had it serve up the (static) front-end app on a route and the backend on a different route. was wondering if something similar is possible using gunicorn
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2021-05-29 03:25:57	Wulf	scruz: don't know. Any reason not to use a real webserver (apache/nginx/etc.) for this?
2021-05-29 03:27:07	scruz	Wulf: put everything into one Heroku bundle :)
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2021-05-29 04:12:53	scruz	Wulf: apparently, i can convert a CherryPy app to a WSGI app and host using gunicorn
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2021-05-29 05:10:00	phlethargie	Hi ! I have a problem with scipy.fftpack.fftfreq : when I do fftfreq(fourrier.size,d=1/44100) it return me array([ 0.,  1.,  2., ..., -3., -2., -1.]) is it normal?
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2021-05-29 05:14:18	DarthGandalf	phlethargie: hi, this channel moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic)
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2021-05-29 06:03:16	e3ef13f4ff44	hello
2021-05-29 06:03:29	e3ef13f4ff44	i have a dict in python
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2021-05-29 06:03:44	e3ef13f4ff44	how i can sum values from child nodes to parent nodes?
2021-05-29 06:04:39	nedbat	e3ef13f4ff44: answers will come faster on libera.chat
2021-05-29 06:05:09	e3ef13f4ff44	i'll have to setup my ZNC :P
2021-05-29 06:05:11	e3ef13f4ff44	wait
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2021-05-29 06:18:13	rindolf	e3ef13f4ff44: hi
2021-05-29 06:18:19	e3ef13f4ff44	hey
2021-05-29 06:18:37	rindolf	e3ef13f4ff44: use recursion?
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2021-05-29 06:21:41	rindolf	e3ef13f4ff44: https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#i-have-problems-understanding-recursion-can-you-help
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2021-05-29 06:22:39	e3ef13f4ff44	i know how recursion works
2021-05-29 06:22:57	e3ef13f4ff44	but i never used dictionaries in python
2021-05-29 06:23:02	e3ef13f4ff44	i prefer C :P
2021-05-29 06:23:31	e3ef13f4ff44	nedbat: i'm on libera now :P
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2021-05-29 06:50:47	rindolf	https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=meir-kriheli-using-dicts
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2021-05-29 08:01:01	parapan	hi all; I cannot figure this out ....https://bpa.st/LDWA ; maybe someone else can . . . .
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2021-05-29 08:05:08	jinsun	parapan: `output = [x.replace(" ", "-") for x in input]` ?
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2021-05-29 08:08:30	nedbat	parapan: join us at libera.chat btw
2021-05-29 08:09:17	parapan	jinsun: you're good ! I've tested it for other input, it seems to work ! - can you please explain how you were reasoning ?
2021-05-29 08:09:30	parapan	nedbat: what's that ?
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2021-05-29 08:13:12	habnabit_	parapan, new irc network: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-29 08:29:41	parapan	habnabit_: it this one going to be closed ? is it something to run in parallel ?
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2021-05-29 08:30:31	habnabit_	parapan, "we'll see" but libera is definitely going to remain a stronger presence
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2021-05-29 08:32:24	parapan	ok, good to know . . . thanks
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2021-05-29 08:43:45	parapan	ok, so everybody is moving there ?
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2021-05-29 08:49:46	ertyui	hi
2021-05-29 08:50:23	ertyui	how to perform like the command watch action with python script ?
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2021-05-29 08:54:53	DarthGandalf	ertyui: hi, this channel moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic), so you'll more likely to get the response over there
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2021-05-29 08:58:18	ertyui	YYY ?
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2021-05-29 09:28:07	parapan	jinsun: ?
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2021-05-29 09:59:41	Spiney	Is #python leaving freenode?
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2021-05-29 10:01:17	synthetek	no, just some of the users.
2021-05-29 10:02:46	nedbat	Spiney: join us at libera.chat
2021-05-29 10:03:06	Spiney	For all the porn needs?
2021-05-29 10:03:09	Spiney	No thanks
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2021-05-29 10:03:33	nedbat	i hadn't heard that particular angle before, but ok
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2021-05-29 10:04:22	habnabit_	Spiney, freenode staff has already been evicting other language channels so we'll see i guess
2021-05-29 10:05:55	Spiney	nedbat: I had close to 40 different nicks tell me that.  So they are advertising that angle
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2021-05-29 10:06:30	nedbat	Spiney: everyone needs to stop believing everything people tell them
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2021-05-29 10:07:25	Spiney	nedbat: if that's being advertised (possibly other networks as well), it's going to be a problem
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2021-05-29 10:08:30	nedbat	Spiney: i'm not sure what you mean by advertised?  libera is being run by the same people who ran freenode for the 10 years before a month ago, so....
2021-05-29 10:09:11	DarthGandalf	Spiney: Lee actually did a policy change several days ago to allow porn
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2021-05-29 10:09:16	DarthGandalf	if I read it correctly
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2021-05-29 10:09:33	nedbat	Spiney: Lee is the new owner of freenode
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2021-05-29 10:10:08	flux__aeon	anyone here use elasticsearch at all?
2021-05-29 10:10:23	nedbat	flux__aeon: many people probably do. it works better here to ask your question directly. People don't often volunteer as experts, and sometimes non-experts can help.
2021-05-29 10:10:31	flux__aeon	great thanks nedbat
2021-05-29 10:10:32	flux__aeon	https://cpy.pt/KzTsaP1r  i have a field type of text that is a single letter, B. when i boolean search and filter on that field type, "B", i get zero matches. if i lowercase the B to "b" I get the relevant matches. any ideas as to why?
2021-05-29 10:10:33	nedbat	flux__aeon: also, more people will be answering at libera.chat
2021-05-29 10:10:57	Spiney	nedbat: the port 6667?
2021-05-29 10:11:08	synthetek	i went to the new chat to check it out. i left after seeing this, "anyway narcissistic Trumpian wannabe Korean royalty bitcoins millionaire" I don't have time for all that. i just want to relax on irc not the drama stuff. :\
2021-05-29 10:11:10	habnabit_	port 6697 ssl like usual
2021-05-29 10:11:17	Spiney	k
2021-05-29 10:11:47	nedbat	synthetek: there is an unfortunate amount of drama, and bad acting between the networks now, it's true.
2021-05-29 10:11:49	habnabit_	synthetek, i can point you to places he's getting roasted on freenode too if you'd like
2021-05-29 10:11:56	ffledgling	Hi folks, any python perf experts here? I'm trying to figure out an OOM issue I'm seeing with a python server when it's served by a bunch of requests. On profiling it I see 3 (functions?) taking up a majority of the time: PyUnicode_New, _PyUnicodeWriter_PrepareInternal, _PyObject_GC_New . Can someone help me understand what they are and what they indicate interms of user-level python operations?
2021-05-29 10:12:01	nedbat	synthetek: many people don't trust freenode any more, and are moving away
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2021-05-29 10:12:56	nedbat	ffledgling: it looks like you are making lots of strings.  join us at libera.chat for more people
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2021-05-29 10:13:21	ffledgling	Oh, is freenode no longer the cannonical python irc channel?
2021-05-29 10:13:26	habnabit_	it is not
2021-05-29 10:13:36	nedbat	ffledgling: https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-29 10:14:31	ffledgling	Thank you, let me try switching over
2021-05-29 10:17:03	ChrisWarrick	nedbat: perhaps the /topic could reflect this move better?
2021-05-29 10:17:49	nedbat	ChrisWarrick: we were being cautious, and i'm not sure people really see the topic anyway
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2021-05-29 10:18:16	habnabit_	almost nobody reads the topic
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2021-05-29 10:23:40	Wulf	Are there more people on libera already? Number of clients there is currently 71% of clients here, and rising. But I wonder how many of those represent people.
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2021-05-29 10:25:18	ChrisWarrick	Wulf: I’d expect 100% of the Libera folk to be actual people who consciously joined, but I wouldn’t be so sure about the Freenode cohort
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2021-05-29 10:25:43	ChrisWarrick	(well, 100% minus infobob :))
2021-05-29 10:26:20	habnabit_	Wulf, i haven't seen any indication that the numbers are inflated on the libera end
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2021-05-29 10:29:48	Wulf	I mean there will always be some bots. Or perhaps people who forgot about their bouncers.
2021-05-29 10:30:29	DarthGandalf	Wulf: libera is too new for such forgotten bouncers
2021-05-29 10:30:39	DarthGandalf	but there are such bouncers here for sure
2021-05-29 10:30:59	Wulf	DarthGandalf: that's what I meant.
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2021-05-29 10:31:27	Wulf	so maybe the libera channel is already bigger in reality
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2021-05-29 10:38:13	azi`	I have a class that wraps a class that uses asyncio to report notifications from the server. I've inluced a class method stop(self) that stops the websocket connection
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2021-05-29 10:38:22	azi`	when running I get the following error ValueError: The future belongs to a different loop than the one specified as the loop argument
2021-05-29 10:38:38	azi`	which makes me think i don't understand something about coroutines and asyncio
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2021-05-29 10:38:40	nedbat	azi`: more people will answer on libera.chat
2021-05-29 10:38:50	azi`	nedbat: what is that?
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2021-05-29 10:39:19	nedbat	azi`: another IRC network.  details are at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-05-29 10:40:28	azi`	gotcha , joining now
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2021-05-29 11:54:35	shibumi	see you on Libear! :)
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2021-05-29 12:05:53	raxor2k	i added "fastapi_jwt_auth" to my requirements.in file, but still i get ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'fastapi_jwt_auth' ? https://bpa.st/GYDQ
2021-05-29 12:06:08	raxor2k	does it mean i have to run "pip install fastapi_jwt_auth" in my Dockerfile then ?
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2021-05-29 12:10:40	tos9	raxor2k: That
2021-05-29 12:10:53	tos9	depends which image you're using, since this is behavior it's deciding
2021-05-29 12:11:00	tos9	Also this channel lives on Libera now.
2021-05-29 12:11:07	han-solo	raxor2k: `fastapi-jwt-auth` isn't that the package ?
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2021-05-29 12:12:40	raxor2k	tos9: this channel lives on libera?
2021-05-29 12:12:50	raxor2k	han-solo: thats a package yes
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2021-05-29 12:13:54	han-solo	no, i mean you'd put `fastapi_jwt_auth` in the requirements file, but the package name is `fastapi-jwt-auth`, right ?
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2021-05-29 12:15:18	raxor2k	han-solo: omg.. im so dumb
2021-05-29 12:15:32	raxor2k	but that strange since i tried install it locally first using _, and it worked
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2021-05-29 12:16:31	 *	han-solo shrugs
2021-05-29 12:17:49	tos9	Yes, the two of those should be equivalent.
2021-05-29 12:18:31	raxor2k	han-solo: thanks, it works now
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2021-05-29 14:04:18	brutamontes	Is there any tool to dump all url links of a domain into a text file?~
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2021-05-29 14:05:11	ChrisWarrick	what do you mean?
2021-05-29 14:05:25	habnabit_	brutamontes, are you talking about an html page?
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2021-05-29 14:07:09	brutamontes	habnabit_: what do you mean?
2021-05-29 14:07:19	brutamontes	for example: reddit.com
2021-05-29 14:07:32	habnabit_	brutamontes, use scrapy
2021-05-29 14:07:39	brutamontes	i know right
2021-05-29 14:07:41	brutamontes	but how?
2021-05-29 14:07:45	brutamontes	i cant code
2021-05-29 14:07:57	habnabit_	brutamontes, there's tutorials in the /topic
2021-05-29 14:08:03	pragma-	I wouldn't be surprised if wget has a --dump-links option or something.
2021-05-29 14:08:28	brutamontes	habnabit_: is there anything i could use on github or something?
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2021-05-29 14:08:54	pragma-	This doesn't seem particularly python-related.
2021-05-29 14:09:34	han-solo	if you have `lynx` it have some -dump option for the links
2021-05-29 14:09:46	han-solo	er
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2021-05-29 14:10:01	pragma-	in any case, you're going to get a ton of noisy extranous links for something like reddit.com
2021-05-29 14:10:22	pragma-	They're not all going to be links to articles.
2021-05-29 14:11:09	brutamontes	any of you wanna code me a 5$ script that uses scrapy for this?
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2021-05-29 14:13:47	ChrisWarrick	we don’t write code for people, and we don’t take your money
2021-05-29 14:14:44	Wulf	and certainly not for measly 5$.
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2021-05-29 14:46:21	ThiefMaster	hi, do i understand https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html#typing.Callable correctly that `t.Callable[[t.Any, ...], t.Any]` to indicate a function that takes >=1 arguments would not be allowed?
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2021-05-29 14:48:34	DarthGandalf	ThiefMaster: hi, this channel moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic), so you'll more likely to get the response over there
2021-05-29 14:48:41	ThiefMaster	i asked in both channels ;)
2021-05-29 14:48:50	DarthGandalf	ah, cool
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2021-05-29 14:55:20	nedbat	ThiefMaster: it would be better to only ask in one of the channels
2021-05-29 14:55:57	nedbat	it would be great if people would part from this channel once they have joined libera
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2021-05-29 14:56:52	ThiefMaster	might be worth changing this one to +m then ;)
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2021-05-29 14:57:46	nedbat	ThiefMaster: that raises the ire of the network admins
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2021-05-29 14:59:12	Tashtari	nedbat: For what it's worth, the Weechat channel was one of the ones that got botted, but right now it just redirects to ##weechat, which has a topic that points to libera that hasn't been disturbed for days.
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2021-05-29 14:59:44	Tashtari	It's a little awkward, but it seems like that's a way to 'close' a channel that works.
2021-05-29 14:59:44	nedbat	Tashtari: does it have +m ?
2021-05-29 15:00:07	nedbat	Tashtari: we already have a topic that points to libera, that should be better, right?
2021-05-29 15:00:34	Tashtari	It does not have +m, and... I mean, you say that libera channels exist, that's not exactly a redirect.  :)
2021-05-29 15:01:03	nedbat	Tashtari: i don't get why a redirect to ##python, with a topic there; would be better than a topic here.
2021-05-29 15:01:28	nedbat	Tashtari: i can change this topic to say "We are on libera"
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2021-05-29 15:01:33	pragma-	The libera part is cut-off in the topic for me. Why not just make the whole topic be just the libera part?
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2021-05-29 15:01:50	pragma-	The freenode staff would take over the channel again probably?
2021-05-29 15:01:56	nedbat	pragma-: we were being cautious, but Tashtari thinks that caution isn't needed. hard to say.
2021-05-29 15:02:09	Tashtari	I don't see anything in the topic that says "we've moved to libera" except for "Libera channels exist"
2021-05-29 15:02:21	pragma-	IIRC, the new policy calls such topics spam and allows the current freenode staff to seize the channel.
2021-05-29 15:02:47	nedbat	Tashtari: https://www.pound-python.org
2021-05-29 15:02:58	nedbat	pragma-: there's a lot of misinformation about what freenode staff will do
2021-05-29 15:03:13	DarthGandalf	Nobody knows what they will do
2021-05-29 15:03:19	InPhase	Including them.
2021-05-29 15:03:37	nedbat	mostly, i am talking to people, and encouraging them to go to libera.  even better would be to part from here.
2021-05-29 15:03:41	Tashtari	nedbat: It's your channel, it's your call.  *shrug*  I just think a lot of people are missing the memo about the move - that's kinda why I'm hanging around.
2021-05-29 15:04:01	nedbat	Tashtari: they are, it's true
2021-05-29 15:04:11	pragma-	FWIW, this is what the topic looks like in my IRC window: https://i.imgur.com/jwSRA19.png
2021-05-29 15:04:17	pragma-	I'd have to manually use /topic to see the libera part.
2021-05-29 15:04:37	pragma-	(or click that first link, I guess)
2021-05-29 15:04:46	--	Mode #python [+o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-29 15:05:00	pragma-	"Libera channels exist" is buried down over there --->
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2021-05-29 15:05:18	--	nedbat has changed topic for #python from "Anything Python is on-topic. | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Lіbеrа channels exist | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx | New programmer? https://j.mp/23X7emF | Ops: #python-ops" to "We are on Libera | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-05-29 15:05:24	--	Mode #python [-o nedbat] by ChanServ
2021-05-29 15:05:27	pragma-	That's much more clear indeed.
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2021-05-29 15:05:43	Tashtari	Agree.
2021-05-29 15:06:07	pragma-	But freenode staff might get mad now.
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2021-05-29 15:06:49	Tashtari	Well, if they do, there's the fallback position of changing the ## channel's topic.
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2021-05-29 15:08:04	Tashtari	Anyway, I can continue to stick around and point questioners to libera... it's just a question in my mind if I'm doing more good by doing that or by decreasing the user count on freenode by one.
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2021-05-29 15:08:33	DarthGandalf	Tashtari: I have the same question in my mind :)
2021-05-29 15:08:34	pragma-	well, if you convince 5 people to move, you decrease the user count by 5 instead of 1.
2021-05-29 15:09:01	Tashtari	Well, five people who may have just connected to freenode to ask a question.
2021-05-29 15:09:03	Tashtari	But yeah.
2021-05-29 15:09:06	Tashtari	That's kind of why I've stayed.
2021-05-29 15:11:04	nedbat	Tashtari: i appreciate you helping.  Ask them to part the channel also.
2021-05-29 15:11:43	Tashtari	Righty-o, will do.
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2021-05-29 15:15:08	Inky_	Can somebody remind me how to run something in a virtual environment with Pyenv, please?  I can't get the command right and the tutorial article I'm looking at isn't helping.
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2021-05-29 15:17:31	Inky_	Can somebody remind me how to run something in a virtual environment with Pyenv, please?  I can't get the command right and the tutorial article I'm looking at isn't helping.
2021-05-29 15:17:39	DarthGandalf	Inky_: hi, this channel moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic), so you'll more likely to get the response over there. When you join that channel, please consider parting this one, thanks
2021-05-29 15:17:40	Inky_	I have a virtual environment that I've used before, the folder's still there, I can see it.  But I can't work out what command to type.
2021-05-29 15:18:13	Inky_	Oh, how odd.  OK.  (You still seem to have a lot of people here who haven't caught up yet!)
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2021-05-29 16:04:07	efwix	Is the order of glob.glob and glob.iglob the same if I don't touch anything in the folder between calls? I have an ext4 file system on Linux
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2021-05-29 16:05:10	efwix	don't touch anything besides reading files*
2021-05-29 16:05:31	DarthGandalf	efwix: hi, this channel moved to irc.libera.chat (see https://www.pound-python.org from the topic), so you'll more likely to get the response over there. When you join that channel, please consider parting this one, thanks
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2021-05-29 16:08:13	efwix	oh, perfect, RIP freenode then?
2021-05-29 16:08:33	habnabit_	rip
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2021-05-29 16:22:02	efwix	I skimmed around the docs, which network is pro-SJW? Libera or Freenode?
2021-05-29 16:22:52	habnabit_	ah, begging the question
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2021-05-29 16:24:15	efwix	I'm confused as to why it has anything to do with the domain takeover and stuff
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2021-05-29 16:24:46	habnabit_	same
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2021-05-29 16:43:58	sgt_chuckles	here's my code: https://bpa.st/KL2A
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2021-05-29 16:44:20	sgt_chuckles	I get an error saying string argument without an encoding
2021-05-29 16:44:28	sgt_chuckles	cant figure out what to do
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2021-05-29 16:48:32	Tashtari	sgt_chuckles: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer if you go there.  Please consider parting this channel as you join the new one on libera, it will make this channel easier to close.
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2021-05-29 16:51:47	sgt_chuckles	dude, there's nobody on libera
2021-05-29 16:51:57	sgt_chuckles	am i joining the wrong network on hexchat?
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2021-05-29 16:52:01	ChrisWarrick	sgt_chuckles: you might be
2021-05-29 16:52:18	sgt_chuckles	LibraIRC no?
2021-05-29 16:52:20	ChrisWarrick	sgt_chuckles: you don’t seem to be on #python on irc.libera.chat
2021-05-29 16:52:23	ChrisWarrick	sgt_chuckles: nope
2021-05-29 16:52:31	sgt_chuckles	how do I join that network
2021-05-29 16:52:46	ChrisWarrick	sgt_chuckles: you might need to configure the server name manually
2021-05-29 16:53:15	Yhg1s	sgt_chuckles: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1339682/how-do-i-connect-to-libera-chat-with-hexchat
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2021-05-29 16:53:58	Tashtari	Yeah, LibraIRC is something else.  Libera.chat is only about a week old.
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2021-05-29 17:01:49	yskapell	hello all
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2021-05-29 17:02:50	yskapell	on my windows 10 I have install py-charm. When I run a program to check if everything is OK, the program crash on a file with the following error " UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 544: invalid start byte"
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2021-05-29 17:03:18	yskapell	If I run the same files on my linux server it does not crash and I do not get the above error.
2021-05-29 17:03:23	yskapell	any idea why this happens?
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2021-05-29 17:03:45	Tashtari	yskapell: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer if you go there.  Please consider parting this channel as you join the new one on libera, it will make this channel easier to close.
2021-05-29 17:03:52	yskapell	all the files are utf-8 and us-ascii
2021-05-29 17:03:59	yskapell	the faulty file is utf-8
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2021-05-29 17:15:08	h4k1m0u	Hi, can we have autocomplete in vim with jedi (via YouCompleteMe) for function arguments like the one passed to the function passed itself to curses.wrapper? (please this example: https://docs.python.org/3/howto/curses.html#starting-and-ending-a-curses-application). Static typing didn't seem to work for me (in contrast with basic python types like
2021-05-29 17:15:08	h4k1m0u	dicts)
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2021-05-29 17:35:26	Tashtari	h4k1m0u: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer if you go there.  Please consider parting this channel as you join the new one on libera, it will make this channel easier to close.
2021-05-29 17:35:48	h4k1m0u	thanks, I've just joined over there and asked my question ^^
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2021-05-29 17:42:49	Tashtari	Ah, so you have.  My mistake.
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2021-05-29 18:00:58	nubonix	[websocket secure] any able to help me replicate this in python? I have some starter code, but its not working https://i.imgur.com/1eAaWYp.png
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2021-05-29 18:04:55	nubonix	https://bpa.st/EMPA
2021-05-29 18:05:56	oxek	nubonix: might get more help in the main channel
2021-05-29 18:06:08	nubonix	?
2021-05-29 18:06:20	nedbat	nubonix: we are mostly at libera.chat these days
2021-05-29 18:06:34	nubonix	ah moved from freenode because of alex?
2021-05-29 18:06:54	nubonix	whats the erm, new python channel?
2021-05-29 18:07:14	nedbat	nubonix: https://libera.chat has details, #python over there
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2021-05-29 18:07:43	nubonix	nedbat: thanks
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2021-05-29 18:28:49	true-grue	Hi all!
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2021-05-29 18:55:33	yanmaani	true-grue: everyone's on the other network
2021-05-29 18:55:56	true-grue	yanmaani, Ah, I see. Thank you!
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2021-05-29 20:33:52	rick89	hi there
2021-05-29 20:34:00	rick89	can you recommend me a good python course
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2021-05-29 20:35:34	nedbat	rick89: jump over to libera.chat
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2021-05-29 20:39:02	rick89	i cant
2021-05-29 20:39:05	rick89	it says "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services"
2021-05-29 20:42:49	Tashtari	rick89: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
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2021-05-29 21:27:49	soft_concrete	when using csv.reader, why can I just go "next(reader)"? Why don't I have to do something like "csv.reader.next(reader)" ??
2021-05-29 21:28:21	-->	nbro (~nbro@unaffiliated/nbro) has joined #python
2021-05-29 21:28:42	soft_concrete	maybe some context is needed: https://termbin.com/18ra
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2021-05-29 21:29:27	soft_concrete	oh, right, I forgot that liberachat is the new thing. bye!
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2021-05-30 02:25:03	jacklong	is there script to merge xml files without duplicate rows
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2021-05-30 02:29:00	Wulf	jacklong: try asking on libera
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2021-05-30 02:31:14	jacklong	:P
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2021-05-30 02:42:39	pra81	hello to all
2021-05-30 02:42:57	pra81	what book recommendation for django framework ?
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2021-05-30 02:43:32	kosh	pra81, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-05-30 02:44:10	kosh	also it is early in the morning on a sunday so it might be a while before there are people to help with that question no matter where you ask
2021-05-30 02:44:34	pra81	kosh: ok i see
2021-05-30 02:45:08	pra81	kosh: is it 06:44 am there in utc
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2021-05-30 02:46:58	kosh	that is really early on sunday
2021-05-30 02:47:42	kosh	it is between midnight and 3am in the usa
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2021-05-30 02:47:58	kosh	it is between 8am and 10am in europe on a sunday
2021-05-30 02:47:59	pra81	kosh: here in india its 12.30 afternoon
2021-05-30 02:48:04	kosh	that is just not a good time to get help
2021-05-30 02:48:24	pra81	kosh: when is a good time to get help can you elaborate on that
2021-05-30 02:49:21	Wulf	pra81: just go to libera and ask your question. Then sit there and wait for an answer.
2021-05-30 02:49:24	kosh	during normal working hours 9am to 5pm usually in europe and usa and better answers on days that are not sunday
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2021-05-30 03:00:03	pra81	kosh: Wulf: kosh: ok thanks sir
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2021-05-30 03:36:02	samian	Is this channel moving to Libera.Chat? Or is this channel here to stay?
2021-05-30 03:36:43	DarthGandalf	yep, it's there
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2021-05-30 05:06:29	Feuermagier	How do I split a string at spaces *except* if the spaces occur in a "(foo bor etc.)" [talking about between '(' and ')']
2021-05-30 05:06:48	Feuermagier	So essentially leave everything in brackets together
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2021-05-30 05:08:20	pyfisch	Feuermagier: do you have (nested (brackets)) ?
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2021-05-30 05:08:35	Feuermagier	pyfisch, yes
2021-05-30 05:08:59	Feuermagier	this is a parser for a context-free languale
2021-05-30 05:09:09	Feuermagier	language*
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2021-05-30 05:10:02	Feuermagier	I guess I could brute-force it with a special function and a counter while looking at every char individually
2021-05-30 05:10:15	bjs	Feuermagier: do you mean, this is for the tokenization step?
2021-05-30 05:10:25	bjs	Feuermagier: because the context-free parser can handle matched brackets just fine
2021-05-30 05:11:21	Feuermagier	specifically this is an S-Parser (example:)
2021-05-30 05:11:22	Feuermagier	((set x 1)
2021-05-30 05:11:22	Feuermagier	(while (sub 16 i) (
2021-05-30 05:11:22	Feuermagier	(set x (mul x 2))
2021-05-30 05:11:22	Feuermagier	(set i (add i 1))))
2021-05-30 05:11:22	Feuermagier	(set result x))
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2021-05-30 05:12:13	Feuermagier	I guess I'll just write a sub-parser :D
2021-05-30 05:12:38	bjs	Feuermagier: why a subparser?  I'm confused
2021-05-30 05:13:13	Feuermagier	bjs, well, a function that splits at my conditions
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2021-05-30 05:13:33	bjs	Feuermagier: can't you just use the parser you've built to do that?
2021-05-30 05:13:48	Feuermagier	bjs, I'm building it right now
2021-05-30 05:13:53	bjs	Like, you already have a parser that understands where all the spaces are and how all the brackets match up
2021-05-30 05:14:06	bjs	Feuermagier: oh you're trying to split on spaces to build the parser?
2021-05-30 05:14:11	pyfisch	Feuermagier: the conventional approach would be to have a tokenizer first and then a parser
2021-05-30 05:14:14	Feuermagier	yes
2021-05-30 05:14:31	bjs	Feuermagier: that's an unusual approach.  The usual way is to build a tokenizer first
2021-05-30 05:14:55	bjs	Feuermagier: so `((f 1) 2)` would be something like [OPEN_PAREN, OPEN_PAREN, IDENT f, NUMBER 1, CLOSE_PAREN, NUMBER 2, CLOSE_PAREN]
2021-05-30 05:15:01	bjs	then your parser works on those tokens
2021-05-30 05:15:24	Feuermagier	bjs, for this assignment I only need to check if a given "program" is valid. so I'm just never leaving the "string" stage.
2021-05-30 05:15:37	bjs	Feuermagier: checking if a program is "valid" is the entire point of a parser
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2021-05-30 05:15:54	xikkub	my lazy brain would be inclined to search/split on positive (.*?) matches, then do the desired split() on the others
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2021-05-30 05:16:09	bjs	Feuermagier: I *highly* recommend doing this in the standard way, converting it to tokens like I describe then having the parser check validity
2021-05-30 05:16:25	Feuermagier	bjs, allright. I'll look into it.
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2021-05-30 05:17:11	bjs	Feuermagier: remember that checking matching brackets requires something at least as powerful as a context-free parser, so if you had to split based on matching brackets to even build the context-free parser ...
2021-05-30 05:17:21	bjs	then how do you build the sub-parser? :)
2021-05-30 05:17:43	Feuermagier	bjs, well, that's a stack-automata
2021-05-30 05:18:02	bjs	Feuermagier: yes, pushdown automata are context-free parsers
2021-05-30 05:18:08	bjs	(they are the same thing.)
2021-05-30 05:18:32	pyfisch	Feuermagier: If you want to keep it simple the tokens of a program can just be a list of strings: ["(", "(", "f", "1", ")", "2", ")"] The downside is that you now have tokens but still need to check for each what it actually is bracket/number/function
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2021-05-30 05:23:56	jacklong	what is buitin function
2021-05-30 05:24:07	jacklong	what is the priciple
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2021-05-30 05:24:30	bjs	jacklong: it's a function that someone already defined for you so you don't have to.
2021-05-30 05:25:04	bjs	built-in ones are the ones that just come with Python
2021-05-30 05:25:19	jacklong	the std lib is all this
2021-05-30 05:25:26	jacklong	but std is not builtin
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2021-05-30 05:25:42	jacklong	file.open is builtin ?
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2021-05-30 05:26:45	bjs	jacklong: some of the stdlib can be built-in,  some are just .py files that you download as well as downloading Python
2021-05-30 05:27:22	bjs	it's all the same really,  just a bunch of functions that people wrote for you that you get when you download Python.  the built-in ones are always available without you having to do anything
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2021-05-30 05:28:49	jacklong	I consider that is inline exported from loaded so library
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2021-05-30 05:30:11	bjs	jacklong: exactly where they come from is an implementation detail
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2021-05-30 06:04:14	nedbat	jacklong, Feuermagier, xikkub: join us at libera.chat
2021-05-30 06:04:25	nedbat	(and if you don't mind, part from here)
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2021-05-30 06:05:02	Feuermagier	nedbat, yeah, I considered it. I'll take a look soon.
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2021-05-30 06:52:54	bonhoeffer	i have a little script that updates my finances. i want to import after the last date. should I save the date in a json file or a pickle or something else?
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2021-05-30 06:53:45	nedbat	bonhoeffer: json would be best. btw, we are mostly on libera.chat
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2021-05-30 06:55:42	bonhoeffer	will look up libera.chat
2021-05-30 06:55:51	rindolf	bonhoeffer: pickle has some security issues
2021-05-30 06:55:51	bonhoeffer	can i use hexchat for that?
2021-05-30 06:56:01	nedbat	bonhoeffer: yes, it's just like freenode technically
2021-05-30 06:56:12	rindolf	bonhoeffer: yes
2021-05-30 06:56:50	bonhoeffer	ok -- thanks. i know it is offtopic, but I think i saw something happened to freenode recently -- please share a link if there is some backstory
2021-05-30 06:57:35	nedbat	bonhoeffer: https://www.pound-python.org has a link
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2021-05-30 07:00:37	bonhoeffer	nedbat, thanks for the link, perfect -- i can't find libera in the hexchat list, but I'll figure it out
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2021-05-30 07:04:21	ChrisWarrick	bonhoeffer: the network is like 2 weeks old, hexchat doesn't have it in the built-in list
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2021-05-30 07:05:32	bonhoeffer	thanks -- i found LibraIRC but I'm the only person in #python -- anyway, I'll figure it out
2021-05-30 07:05:44	grawity	the network is not LibraIRC
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2021-05-30 07:14:09	madsj	Hi. I tried to figure out how to instantiate a unittest.TestCase with arguments. I found a few posts, suggesting static class arguments (in this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11380413/python-unittest-passing-arguments). What's the best way?
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2021-05-30 07:15:48	nedbat	madsj: 1) can you tell us why you want to instantiate it? It's not often done, you should let your test runner make them.  2) we are mostly on libera.chat these days
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2021-05-30 07:18:44	madsj	nedbat: I'd like to make some API calls and verify the result. Not using mock.
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2021-05-30 07:19:21	nedbat	madsj: you shouldn't try to make your own TestCase objects.  It sounds like maybe you want a parameterization tool
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2021-05-30 07:20:14	rindolf	bonhoeffer: json is acceptable for automated serialisation and deserialisation
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2021-05-30 07:40:48	madsj	nedbat: any suggestiosn?
2021-05-30 07:43:29	nedbat	madsj: pytest has more powerful tools that unittest, but there are libraries like ddt for unittest, and unittest has subtests
2021-05-30 07:43:47	nedbat	madsj: and join us at https://libera.chat
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2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Topic for #python is "We are on Libera | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Sat, 29 May 2021 15:05:17
2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Channel #python: 1094 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 1094 normals)
2021-05-30 09:11:34	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-05-30 09:54:09	bazul	i actually did a ct scan of a python last week
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2021-05-30 09:55:23	rindolf	bazul: a snake?
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2021-05-30 09:57:04	bazul	yes
2021-05-30 09:57:08	bazul	with egg impactation
2021-05-30 09:57:17	bazul	a 20 pound one
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2021-05-30 09:58:28	fujisan	what is libera?
2021-05-30 09:58:43	nedbat	fujisan: another irc network: https://libera.chat
2021-05-30 09:59:01	fujisan	i dont get what happened even wrongplanet is gone now
2021-05-30 09:59:09	fujisan	oh okay nedbat
2021-05-30 09:59:22	fujisan	i understand that part but why are you guys also on there?
2021-05-30 10:00:32	Yhg1s	fujisan: we're just here to tell people about the new place. the new place exists because of administration and policy changes on here. https://www.pound-python.org has a link to the longer story.
2021-05-30 10:00:46	fujisan	Yhg1s:  thanks a lot
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2021-05-30 10:02:29	bazul	https://drive.google.com/file/d/10IRu25_l28YPh7UeAjrPxbS_mNK24cc8/view?usp=sharing
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2021-05-30 10:03:11	nedbat	bazul: that is different!
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2021-05-30 10:08:13	bazul	that's an actual python :P
2021-05-30 10:09:04	fujisan	is it time to turn freenode drama into a Netflix series?
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2021-05-30 10:34:39	Lord_of_Life	That depends fujisan. Are you ready to do the explicit scenes for it?
2021-05-30 10:35:44	rindolf	fujisan: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-linux-The-SCO-vs-Linux-TV-Series
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2021-05-30 10:59:30	habnabit_	fujisan, well, where's the CT scan image
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2021-05-30 11:03:05	nedbat	s/ fujisan / bazul
2021-05-30 11:03:19	fujisan	huh i dont get it???
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2021-05-30 11:04:04	habnabit_	oh, yes
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2021-05-30 11:04:09	habnabit_	bazul, well, where's the CT scan image
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2021-05-30 11:20:21	rcm888	ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'aiohttp'
2021-05-30 11:20:25	rcm888	python 3.7
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2021-05-30 11:21:29	Tashtari	rcm888: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer if you go there.  Please consider parting this channel as you join the new one on libera, it will make this channel easier to close.
2021-05-30 11:24:19	habnabit_	Tashtari, i wonder if it might be useful to say 'not librairc' in that message because a few people have been confused
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2021-05-30 11:24:23	Tashtari	habnabit_: Fair point, I'll add that to the boilerplate.
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2021-05-30 11:27:41	rcm888	why this error?
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2021-05-30 11:28:18	Tashtari	rcm888: I don't know.  But if you ask in #python on irc.libera.chat, you are more likely to get a helpful answer.
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2021-05-30 11:30:00	Tashtari	The majority of the active users have moved there already - it is conjectured that a lot of the people remaining here are forgotten-about bouncers, rather than active users.
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2021-05-30 11:41:19	fury__	hi! I have a function in a library that is wrapped eg. @wrapper(some_kwarg="some string") def some_function(): ... ; given some_function, how can I inspect what the arguments to @wrapper are?
2021-05-30 11:41:59	Tashtari	fury__: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 11:42:29	fury__	no
2021-05-30 11:42:36	nedbat	fury__: no?
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2021-05-30 11:43:02	fury__	you're agreeing with the spammer?
2021-05-30 11:43:20	fury__	I run an (another) irc network and we see constant spam from these people
2021-05-30 11:43:35	Tashtari	Has it occurred to you that the spammer might have no affiliation with libera.chat or with freenode?  :)
2021-05-30 11:43:50	fury__	"joos have taken over freenode, move to libera!"
2021-05-30 11:43:56	nedbat	fury__: Tashtari is not a spammer.  we are mostly on libera now
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2021-05-30 11:44:57	fury__	in any case, I'll never connect to that network due to their constant spamming of my own.
2021-05-30 11:45:10	nedbat	fury__: ok
2021-05-30 11:45:22	Tashtari	fury__: I ask again, has it occurred to you that the spammers have no affiliation with libera.chat at all?
2021-05-30 11:45:27	habnabit_	fury__, a bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face
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2021-05-30 11:45:44	Tashtari	But whatever, we can't make you do anything.
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2021-05-30 11:46:14	nedbat	fury__: we're just trying to let you know where the most likely help is
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2021-05-30 11:46:54	mikeike2	when I have something like class MediaFile(File, MixinPlayable), how can I call the __init__() for both File and MixinPlayable? super().__init__() calls the File.__init__()
2021-05-30 11:47:05	mikeike2	i dont see to manage to call the MixinPlayable's __init__()
2021-05-30 11:47:11	Tashtari	mikeike2: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 11:47:38	habnabit_	Tashtari, you're doing the lord's work
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2021-05-30 11:48:16	Tashtari	I'm being the stubborn fucker that I generally am, at least.
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2021-05-30 11:50:35	mikeike2	yeah im not in the mood to setup new networks now
2021-05-30 11:50:53	mikeike2	if anyone has an idea, i'll appreciate it.
2021-05-30 11:50:57	nedbat	mikeike2: File.__init__() needs to also use super().__init__()
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2021-05-30 11:51:13	habnabit_	mikeike2, _every_ __init__ needs a super().__init__ call in it
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2021-05-30 11:51:43	mikeike2	nedbat it does, but that calls the File __init__(), never the PlayableMixin __init__()
2021-05-30 11:52:05	bjs	mikeike2: File __init__ should call super().__init__ as well
2021-05-30 11:52:07	habnabit_	mikeike2, the super().__init__() call in File calls File's __init__?
2021-05-30 11:52:11	nedbat	mikeike2: File.__init__() should have a super(), and it will call PlayableMixin
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2021-05-30 11:52:25	mikeike2	File doesn't inherit anything (it inherits ABC)
2021-05-30 11:52:32	bjs	mikeike2: it still needs the super call
2021-05-30 11:52:38	bjs	mikeike2: since that's the call that'll call PlayableMixin
2021-05-30 11:52:41	nedbat	mikeike2: try it.  put super().__init__ inside File.__init__
2021-05-30 11:52:49	habnabit_	mikeike2, it inherits from object, which has an __init__
2021-05-30 11:53:04	habnabit_	mikeike2, so, you need super().__init__ in _every_ __init__ as i said
2021-05-30 11:53:06	mikeike2	but then I have other classes that inherit just File and not a mixin.. File wouldnt have a super then?
2021-05-30 11:53:15	bjs	mikeike2: it should always have a super
2021-05-30 11:53:21	habnabit_	mikeike2, everything inherits from object
2021-05-30 11:53:35	mikeike2	alright.
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2021-05-30 11:59:03	mikeike2	well if i use super().__init__() i get __init__() missing 1 required positional argument: 'file' for *some* of the classes
2021-05-30 11:59:22	habnabit_	mikeike2, multiple inheritance kinda sucks yes
2021-05-30 11:59:34	mikeike2	and if i use super().__init__(file) i get object.__init__() takes exactly one argument (the instance to initialize) for the other classes
2021-05-30 11:59:38	habnabit_	mikeike2, can you pastebin your code? it would make it clearer how to address this
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2021-05-30 12:00:26	mikeike2	it's split among files and would be kinda annoying to pastebin everything. could you do with just certain parts?
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2021-05-30 12:00:43	habnabit_	mikeike2, just the classes and their __init__ is fine
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2021-05-30 12:02:35	mikeike2	habnabit_ see if that's enough https://dpaste.org/i7P0
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2021-05-30 12:03:37	bjs	mikeike2: your classes are a bit inconsistent,  sometimes File is supposed to mixed in with something else and sometimes it isn't?
2021-05-30 12:03:43	mikeike2	habnabit_ see if that's enough https://dpaste.org/i7P0
2021-05-30 12:03:54	mikeike2	sorry for repeating.
2021-05-30 12:04:15	mikeike2	bjs yes, that's what the teacher asked us to. the whole assignment makes no sense to me really, but it is what it is
2021-05-30 12:04:25	habnabit_	oof
2021-05-30 12:04:34	habnabit_	yeah, there's a lot of nonsense assignments regarding inheritance
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2021-05-30 12:04:38	habnabit_	nobody knows how to teach it
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2021-05-30 12:06:09	habnabit_	mikeike2, this is.. huh. why does MixinPlayable not inherit from File?
2021-05-30 12:06:49	mikeike2	because the assignment clearly says MixinPlayable doesn't inherit from anything
2021-05-30 12:07:03	habnabit_	mikeike2, i see
2021-05-30 12:07:06	mikeike2	and that MediaFile inherits from both File and MixinPlayable
2021-05-30 12:07:15	habnabit_	mikeike2, this feels more like a logic puzzle than anything else
2021-05-30 12:07:32	habnabit_	mikeike2, certainly it's not a good use of inheritance..
2021-05-30 12:08:46	mikeike2	i agree, but i need to get this done this way or another and move on with my life
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2021-05-30 12:12:34	mikeike2	i dont care to hack it around somehow
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2021-05-30 12:25:37	mikeike2	i guess you guys are busy. i'll manage something. thanks tho
2021-05-30 12:25:40	mikeike2	see you around.
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2021-05-30 12:33:28	AAC	hey. Can i read same list element several times? like for elem in lstA , for elem in lstA ?
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2021-05-30 12:33:42	AAC	its only a problem if its writing right?
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2021-05-30 12:40:32	habnabit_	osxtra, there
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2021-05-30 13:22:59	gitesh	did someone answer my question?
2021-05-30 13:23:07	gitesh	I am getting error - NameError: name 'Spinbox' is not defined
2021-05-30 13:23:21	Tashtari	gitesh: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-30 13:24:01	gitesh	where is Spinbox defined idk
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2021-05-30 13:33:08	oxek	gitesh: you will have a lot more chance of getting a helpful answer over in the other channel
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2021-05-30 13:36:47	gitesh	oxek: idk which channel you are talking about
2021-05-30 13:36:56	 *	Tashtari repeats:
2021-05-30 13:36:58	oxek	gitesh: read /topic
2021-05-30 13:36:58	Tashtari	gitesh: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 13:37:11	gitesh	oh okay
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2021-05-30 13:53:45	gitesh	got it :) (about spinbox) :D
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2021-05-30 14:36:29	raxor2k	when i use print to print the dict, it prints 4 elements(which is correct), and it also adds 4 elements to the dabase(which is correct), but as soon as i add "return dict" at the line under, it just prints the last element, wtf ?
2021-05-30 14:37:17	habnabit_	return doesn't print anything
2021-05-30 14:37:52	raxor2k	i mean: i add "return dict" after the "print dict" line
2021-05-30 14:37:56	raxor2k	and then it just prints me 1
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2021-05-30 14:57:26	BrenBarn	are you doing that inside a loop?
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2021-05-30 15:01:44	LunarAgent	LunarIRC (irc.lunarirc.net) - the friendliest IRC network around! We welcome retro hobbyists, devs and linux wizards. Drop by, feel at home, create and re-create channels and enjoy your stay! LunarAgent, over and out.
2021-05-30 15:02:05	vdamewood	Well, at leat your prolific.
2021-05-30 15:02:09	vdamewood	you're
2021-05-30 15:02:25	LunarAgent	yeah, when i do something i try to do it good
2021-05-30 15:02:28	LunarAgent	;)
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2021-05-30 15:08:56	raxor2k	BrenBarn: yes.. omg i now i get it, the dict updates itself during the loop but the values are never stored..
2021-05-30 15:09:01	raxor2k	im so idiot
2021-05-30 15:10:35	raxor2k	just waiting for bjs to throw a sarcastic comment at me (:
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2021-05-30 15:45:58	-->	is0ke3 (~is0ke3@unaffiliated/isokee) has joined #python
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2021-05-30 15:46:35	ChrisWarrick	LunarAgent: sorry, everyone's on libera
2021-05-30 15:47:10	LunarAgent	it's ok
2021-05-30 15:48:22	royal_screwup21	what's libera?
2021-05-30 15:48:33	-->	bolovanos (~bolovanos@unaffiliated/bolovanos) has joined #python
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2021-05-30 15:48:52	Aaron	royal_screwup21, something you don't want to know nothing about
2021-05-30 15:49:12	royal_screwup21	very helpful, ty
2021-05-30 15:49:20	Tashtari	This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 15:49:31	Tashtari	</boilerplate>
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2021-05-30 15:49:53	royal_screwup21	Tashtari will my irc credentials work on libera, or do I have to create a new set?
2021-05-30 15:49:59	-->	krux02 (~krux02@p200300ca8f477a00aa3979b058f0e220.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #python
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2021-05-30 15:50:02	royal_screwup21	s/irc/freenode
2021-05-30 15:50:07	Tashtari	New set.
2021-05-30 15:50:09	Tashtari	https://libera.chat/guides/registration
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2021-05-30 15:55:57	jamea77	hi all
2021-05-30 15:56:08	jamea77	how to install pip?
2021-05-30 15:56:28	Tashtari	jamea77: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-30 15:59:35	f8e4	wow, do you go libera too, postgresql did
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2021-05-30 15:59:44	curiousorange	hi
2021-05-30 16:00:12	nedbat	f8e4: we did
2021-05-30 16:00:17	nedbat	curiousorange: hi
2021-05-30 16:00:22	-->	framend (~framend@unaffiliated/framend) has joined #python
2021-05-30 16:00:23	Tashtari	f8e4: All my other channels have, as well
2021-05-30 16:00:37	f8e4	why again, i only read few letters; what is true
2021-05-30 16:00:52	nedbat	f8e4: https://www.pound-python.org has a link
2021-05-30 16:01:47	oxek	CLEAR this channel then
2021-05-30 16:01:47	f8e4	who the heck are those ppl?
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2021-05-30 16:02:14	f8e4	y think big politics has a hand in there?
2021-05-30 16:02:18	oxek	/msg ChanServ CLEAR #python USERS Moved to irc.libera.chat , see you there
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2021-05-30 16:08:33	female_student_4	Hey all my recursion code is garbage and I'm too stupid to figure out where I'm going wrong, was wondering if I could have some insight, please?
2021-05-30 16:08:42	female_student_4	https://edabit.com/challenge/st8mDxreMcuWxuz8c
2021-05-30 16:08:47	female_student_4	It's essentially for this challenge above
2021-05-30 16:08:54	female_student_4	https://bpa.st/YPGA
2021-05-30 16:09:12	female_student_4	So let's say if the input is 3, I want the code to eventually return (5*1) + (5*2) +1
2021-05-30 16:09:28	female_student_4	Hence why I've made the base case when the multiplier = num -1
2021-05-30 16:11:32	bjs	female_student_4: hi!  the people who usually answer your questions have moved to the #python channel on irc.libera.chat  (see the /TOPIC ).  Some may still be here to answer questions,  but you'll probably get replies quicker over there.
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2021-05-30 16:28:42	female_student_4	apologies!
2021-05-30 16:28:47	female_student_4	My laptop completed bugged out
2021-05-30 16:29:08	<--	Jantz (~IceChat95@118.93.133.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 16:29:30	Aaron	female_student_4, ?
2021-05-30 16:30:52	-->	stats4647 (~stats4647@ip174-67-220-13.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #python
2021-05-30 16:31:01	bjs	female_student_4: did you see my message?
2021-05-30 16:31:34	female_student_4	bjs hi yes! I just scrolled up, something about libra? I guess I need to read more about it
2021-05-30 16:32:15	Tashtari	female_student_4: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-30 16:33:26	female_student_4	Tashtari This seems very confusing to me haha
2021-05-30 16:33:44	Tashtari	How so?
2021-05-30 16:33:56	female_student_4	Is this Libera? https://libera.chat/
2021-05-30 16:33:59	bjs	female_student_4: https://www.pound-python.org/   libera.chat is a different IRC network,  the channel has "moved" there
2021-05-30 16:34:00	-->	mxp (~mxp@82.98.30.69) has joined #python
2021-05-30 16:34:09	Tashtari	female_student_4: Yes, that's libera.chat.
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2021-05-30 16:34:25	bjs	female_student_4: yes,  there should be a webchat button like the one you used to connect here.  Just register your nick like you did for freenode and then join #python there
2021-05-30 16:34:59	-->	juuandyy (~juuandyy@90.106.228.121) has joined #python
2021-05-30 16:35:35	jamea77	i have a problem with my  python code: https://bpa.st/2IOA    the error is:  PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'C:\\zprogramas\\python\\Qdl\\Spinner'
2021-05-30 16:36:09	-->	lejocelyn (~lejocelyn@5hy85-h01-176-170-48-32.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) has joined #python
2021-05-30 16:36:31	Tashtari	jamea77: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 16:36:56	female_student_4	Tas
2021-05-30 16:37:07	female_student_4	Tashtari Have some channels completely disappeared? I used to go on gaygeeks
2021-05-30 16:37:10	female_student_4	I can't find it anymore
2021-05-30 16:37:20	Tashtari	Yes, some channels have been closed by the administration.
2021-05-30 16:37:34	female_student_4	Omg! that's awful
2021-05-30 16:37:36	female_student_4	So sad
2021-05-30 16:37:36	Tashtari	I don't know where that one in particular has gone, but it's like that it has moved to libera.chat.
2021-05-30 16:37:42	Tashtari	likely*
2021-05-30 16:37:47	bjs	female_student_4: that's why https://libera.chat/ exists :)
2021-05-30 16:37:59	<--	kostkon (~kostkon@unaffiliated/kostkon) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 16:38:11	Tashtari	Some channels have moved to OFTC as well, but I believe OFTC restricts channels to open-source projects.
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2021-05-30 16:38:36	female_student_4	Maaan. Freenode was my childhood
2021-05-30 16:38:38	female_student_4	I am hella sad.
2021-05-30 16:38:39	Tashtari	female_student_4: There does appear to be a #gaygeeks on libera.chat
2021-05-30 16:39:11	female_student_4	Oh awesome!
2021-05-30 16:39:42	Tashtari	Yeah, the whole situation is pretty crap.  But, onward and upward.
2021-05-30 16:40:03	female_student_4	Just need to figure out how to register on libera now haha
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2021-05-30 16:49:06	remanifest	Quick question - hoping this is fairly easy to do, and I'm thinking it must be. I'm running macOS, and using Python to start a program. What I want to do is to start the program, wait 3 minutes, then have Python safely "quit" the program. Once that's done, I want the program to start again. I can easily make an infinite loop to handle this, but I'm just not sure how to safely quit the program. The program is a traditional ".app". Any ide
2021-05-30 16:49:06	remanifest	as?
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2021-05-30 17:04:51	yanmaani	remanifest: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-30 17:42:10	AAC	hey. How can i interrupt a script and print a variable from that script
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2021-05-30 17:45:08	Tashtari	AAC: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-30 17:45:19	AAC	ok thks!
2021-05-30 17:45:20	AAC	:)
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2021-05-30 17:48:22	Tashtari	I keep waiting for the user count there to exceed here, it does make one wonder how many of those present are bouncers whose owners have forgotten about them or so.
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2021-05-30 20:14:09	Gustavo6046	Can a function be created procedurally? Like, if I have a series of operations that a data structure can have, and a high-level interface strings together a sequence of calls to said operations. Wouldn't it be more performant to somehow replace them ahead of time to create a function that can be called multiple times by whoever scalled the high-level operation stringing function?
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2021-05-30 20:14:47	Tashtari	Gustavo6046: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-30 20:16:26	Gustavo6046	Ah, apologies
2021-05-30 20:16:43	Gustavo6046	I moved to Libera but I forgot to check this was the libera #python :P
2021-05-30 20:16:52	Gustavo6046	I wish I knew how to layout my buffers in a tree in weechat.
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2021-05-30 20:16:54	Gustavo6046	But thanks!
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2021-05-30 22:20:05	daniel___	hi
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2021-05-30 22:28:25	nedbat	daniel___: hi there
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2021-05-30 22:33:33	daniel___	eh just saw the notice about the move to Libera
2021-05-30 22:33:43	daniel___	Not sure I understand what's going on politically
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2021-05-30 22:39:45	habnabit_	daniel___, someone with no interest in freenode as a community is trying to put his name on it and the community decided they didn't like that and moved
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2021-05-30 22:54:11	daniel___	I was told that someone was able to gain control of Freenode without the consent of the admins
2021-05-30 22:54:19	daniel___	if so, that's just incredible
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2021-05-30 22:55:46	habnabit_	daniel___, yes there was a weird "legal" backdoor
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2021-05-30 22:56:20	firefish500018	no one can see the contract, so how "legal" it is we don't know
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2021-05-30 22:56:50	daniel___	it's confusing because the banner at the top of this channel points to a link, and if you go there is says #python is moving to libera.chat because the new owner of Freenode "does not share our values" which sounds vague
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2021-05-30 22:57:19	firefish500018	Well, if they say too much, the channel gets hijacked and deleted
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2021-05-30 22:57:37	daniel___	ok, but why would they want to maintain two channels?
2021-05-30 22:57:42	habnabit_	daniel___, like i said, the only thing he cares about wrt. freenode is having his name on it. doesn't care one bit about maintaining the community
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2021-05-30 22:58:03	daniel___	like libera is the "real" #python channel run by the admins and #python here on Freenode is now a shadow channel
2021-05-30 22:58:18	firefish500018	thats exactly what it is
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2021-05-30 22:58:19	habnabit_	daniel___, correct. we're here to tell people about the real channel
2021-05-30 22:58:24	<--	chachasmooth (~chachasmo@unaffiliated/chachasmooth) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:58:47	firefish500018	they keep this cahnnel up so old users can get redirected
2021-05-30 22:58:55	daniel___	OK. Sorry if this was off-topic but since this is the only channel I hang out in, I couldn't think of anywhere else to ask
2021-05-30 22:59:05	firefish500018	who the hell named themselves so
2021-05-30 22:59:14	habnabit_	daniel___, nothing is on-topic anymore ;)
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2021-05-30 22:59:45	firefish500018	the only channels that exist are channels to redirect old users to new irc networks, and the kings channels
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2021-05-30 23:00:09	daniel___	how do you point irssi at Libera?
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2021-05-30 23:00:30	habnabit_	daniel___, you can /network add
2021-05-30 23:01:00	daniel___	so, like /network add irc.libera.chat ?
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2021-05-30 23:01:07	habnabit_	daniel___, or edit your irssi config file to s/freenode.net/libera.chat/
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2021-05-30 23:01:21	--	acovrig600 is now known as acovrig60
2021-05-30 23:01:34	daniel___	is that a redirect?
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2021-05-30 23:01:56	Peng	habnabit_: You'd also have to change "chat" to "irc". :D
2021-05-30 23:02:06	habnabit_	daniel___, it's the sed substring replacement
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2021-05-30 23:02:39	firefish500018	https://irssi.org/support/irc/ has directions as well for a quick connection
2021-05-30 23:02:46	daniel___	I haven't edited my config in *forever* so I admit I've forgotten where everything is
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2021-05-30 23:03:03	firefish500018	its on the support page, since they also moved to libre
2021-05-30 23:03:13	firefish500018	*libera
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2021-05-30 23:05:35	firefish500018	im debating, keep account so it satayts locked and my name cannot be used, or delete my account to become part of the stats
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2021-05-30 23:06:10	habnabit_	firefish500018, freenode took the services stats offline because the numbers were going down too much
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2021-05-30 23:07:04	Peng	/lusers and https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ still work though
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2021-05-30 23:07:36	firefish500018	though they do mention that the stats were removed
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2021-05-30 23:14:41	firefish500018	I became a statistic. account deleted
2021-05-30 23:14:50	py-bb	bye
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2021-05-30 23:17:33	ranran8888	hey i have way get exec like this ? => exec('d'["string1"]')
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2021-05-31 02:18:03	SkyLeach	hey all.  What's the new way to look for and read info on packages now that XMLRPC (pip search and pip info) are disabled?
2021-05-31 02:18:35	Tashtari	SkyLeach: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 02:19:10	SkyLeach	hmm Tashtari that's news too.  thanks.
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2021-05-31 02:23:38	SkyLeach	hey Tashtari what's the new channel?  #python is empty
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2021-05-31 02:25:14	Tashtari	Are you sure you've connected to the right network?  #python on irc.libera.chat is not empty.
2021-05-31 02:25:54	SkyLeach	double-check
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2021-05-31 02:28:30	_Fremen_	Hello everyone
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2021-05-31 02:29:23	<--	GregTheHun2 (~GregTheHu@2601:300:4500:3d41:4270:8840:7c61:213e) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-05-31 02:30:49	_Fremen_	I have some data that I want to plot in python, they are in list format and every position corresponds to different data axis. Is there an easy way to plot this in python by choosing which address is which axis and which adress is for coloring, etc?
2021-05-31 02:31:11	Tashtari	_Fremen_: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-31 02:31:25	SkyLeach	yeah, my mistake.  Fixed and joined.
2021-05-31 02:31:35	Tashtari	Happens!
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2021-05-31 02:32:34	greyblue9	SkyLeach: afaik, there is no new way 😑
2021-05-31 02:32:57	Tashtari	greyblue9: You've just missed him.
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2021-05-31 02:33:24	Tashtari	(Though he is on libera now, you can answer him there)
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2021-05-31 02:37:13	_Fremen_	Tashtari, it seems libera is not in the list of networks, I will check it out, thanks. But if the channel moved, why there are still 1000+ people here?
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2021-05-31 02:38:38	rindolf	_Fremen_: i don't support the move
2021-05-31 02:38:45	Tashtari	_Fremen_: Libera is about a week or so old at this point - it was formed due to recent events on freenode.  (See https://www.pound-python.org for more info.)  As to why there are still a lot of people here, the reasons vary.
2021-05-31 02:39:50	Tashtari	Some are idle or forgotten-about bouncers, some still have channels on this network that haven't moved, some like me are basically just hanging around to direct folks to the new home.
2021-05-31 02:40:07	Tashtari	I am in both channels and I can tell you that there is much more activity in the channel on libera.
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2021-05-31 02:40:22	bookworm	rightfully so ;)
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2021-05-31 02:42:24	Tashtari	Also, while I don't remember the user count before the events that led to the creation of libera, I estimate that it's dropped by close to half...
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2021-05-31 02:43:48	_Fremen_	Tashtari, ok thank you, I assume this move will happen to other channels as well?
2021-05-31 02:44:34	Tashtari	All the channels I was in previously have moved.  I can't speak as to other channels' plans.
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2021-05-31 02:47:04	Tashtari	rindolf: Curious, why do you not support the move?
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2021-05-31 02:48:22	rindolf	Tashtari: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-gnu--freenode-takeover
2021-05-31 02:49:23	_Fremen_	Tashtari, btw does my irc client visible to you?
2021-05-31 02:50:09	Tashtari	_Fremen_: I don't understand your question.  Do you mean, can I tell what IRC client you're using?
2021-05-31 02:52:07	_Fremen_	Tashtari, yep, because you said "Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat."
2021-05-31 02:52:47	Tashtari	Oh, that wasn't because I sensed you were using HexChat, only because the existence of "LibraIRC" in HexChat has caused confusion for some people before.
2021-05-31 02:52:56	Tashtari	But, let me see...
2021-05-31 02:53:22	Tashtari	Your client responds to CTCP VERSION, so yes, I can tell you're running HexChat - but you'll see me requesting it.
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2021-05-31 02:55:23	_Fremen_	Tashtari, ok thanks :)
2021-05-31 02:55:37	Tashtari	_o>
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2021-05-31 02:56:01	_Fremen_	I should go and find out how to add libera to hexchat
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2021-05-31 02:58:11	Tashtari	_Fremen_: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1339682/how-do-i-connect-to-libera-chat-with-hexchat
2021-05-31 02:58:34	Aaron	if you are here
2021-05-31 02:58:37	Aaron	be happy
2021-05-31 02:58:40	Aaron	and stop spamming
2021-05-31 02:58:49	Aaron	is annoying
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2021-05-31 03:15:57	_Fremen_	Tashtari, thanks for everyone
2021-05-31 03:16:01	_Fremen_	everything*
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2021-05-31 03:16:18	_Fremen_	I am going to that server, take care man.
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2021-05-31 03:38:49	kolcon	https://praha11.pirati.cz/clenove/kapler-tomas/
2021-05-31 03:38:52	kolcon	sorry
2021-05-31 03:38:54	kolcon	mistake
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2021-05-31 05:14:18	Angs	Do I understand correct that it is a better practice to use  pyproject.toml instead of setup.py according to PEP 518? It was documented in 2016. Is there a better practice than using pyproject.toml today?
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2021-05-31 05:18:13	Aaron	Angs, it depends on you
2021-05-31 05:18:15	Aaron	and your needs.
2021-05-31 05:18:28	Aaron	is like asking you which car would you like to buy?
2021-05-31 05:18:32	Aaron	that only depends on you...
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2021-05-31 05:21:19	kosh	this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-31 05:25:43	ChrisWarrick	Aaron: There are reasons to pick one over the other… that said, PEP 518 doesn’t say much about what the file can contain, only later standards added definitions of common fields
2021-05-31 05:25:52	Angs	Aaron, hmm ok then I had a wrong assumption that using pyproject.toml over setup.py is not considered as a better practice. But as I understand pyproject.toml is created to overcome of setup.py's possible issues. In that sense, would it be better that I use pyproject.toml in my general works?
2021-05-31 05:26:01	ChrisWarrick	myself, I’m fine with setup.py. And it still works.
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2021-05-31 05:26:38	Aaron	Angs, whatever makes your life easier ;X
2021-05-31 05:26:42	Aaron	I meant to say...
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2021-05-31 05:48:46	xikkub	buffer hide
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2021-05-31 05:49:24	skylite	what's the best way to listen for changes in a file using python? Something like tail -f in linux
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2021-05-31 05:54:44	kosh	skylite, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-05-31 06:08:19	medard	Hello, for absolute noob in web application programming - is python good way to create simple web application that shows empty parking lots with info from rest API?
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2021-05-31 06:13:11	Aaron	medard, go to github.com and see there
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2021-05-31 06:13:42	medard	I don't know what to look for :D
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2021-05-31 06:13:52	Aaron	type parking
2021-05-31 06:13:56	Aaron	and see what comes up
2021-05-31 06:14:04	Aaron	walah!
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2021-05-31 06:31:01	nedbat	medard: Python is a good way to build a web application, yes. Flask is great. btw, we are mostly moved over to https://libera.chat
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2021-05-31 06:50:21	az	hi, I'm getting a number as decimal 0.0000001357 like this. I want to convert it to string but I don't want a fixed decimal numbers, for example if I get 0.0000001 I want it to show exactly 0000001 not 0000001000
2021-05-31 06:50:53	az	..exactly 0.0000001 not 0.0000001000
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2021-05-31 06:51:44	az	I see there are different formats with using g, and f but couldn't combine it together for python +3.6
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2021-05-31 06:52:00	nedbat	az: we've mostly moved to https://libera.chat
2021-05-31 06:52:24	az	what is the issue with everyone moving, what have happened if may I ask?
2021-05-31 06:53:01	nedbat	az: https://www.pound-python.org  has a link
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2021-05-31 06:55:11	ChrisWarrick	medard: depending on your needs, Django or FastAPI might be good choices
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2021-05-31 07:19:04	kosh	az, freenode did some bad things so most projects moved
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2021-05-31 07:38:20	DarthGandalf	az: see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27286628 but https://www.pound-python.org has more details
2021-05-31 07:38:47	az	got it thanks guys, I've moved
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2021-05-31 08:03:24	maum	hello
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2021-05-31 08:03:48	nedbat	maum: hey there
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2021-05-31 08:07:30	maum	Someone can help me? https://bpa.st/OSIA
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2021-05-31 08:08:44	nedbat	maum: we've mostly moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-05-31 08:12:15	maum	Someone can help me? https://bpa.st/OSIA
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2021-05-31 08:12:28	nedbat	maum: hi, can you see what I am typing?
2021-05-31 08:12:49	maum	chat room has changed?
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2021-05-31 08:13:00	nedbat	maum: yes
2021-05-31 08:13:06	maum	ah
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2021-05-31 08:50:43	MarderIII	Heh! Dont pay attention for a few weeks and the world changes... Reminds me of TWiki's corporate takeover..
2021-05-31 08:50:59	nedbat	MarderIII: yeah, things change
2021-05-31 08:51:24	MarderIII	I'll change to libera
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2021-05-31 09:16:24	oxek	when is this channel closing? It is listed as the 3rd largest channel on freenode.
2021-05-31 09:16:54	nedbat	oxek: we are here to redirect people.  it would help for people to part when they have joined libera.
2021-05-31 09:17:01	nedbat	oxek: i know you suggested CLEAR
2021-05-31 09:17:18	oxek	true, I am very excited to see a CLEAR happen in here :)
2021-05-31 09:17:24	oxek	I just don't want to miss it
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2021-05-31 09:17:33	bjs	if there is a CLEAR, you won't miss it that's for sure
2021-05-31 09:17:33	bjs	:P
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2021-05-31 09:18:19	oxek	I've seen #archlinux become +i, redirect to ##archlinux, where the topic explains everything, and then CLEAR the channel a few hours ago
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2021-05-31 09:18:48	bjs	oxek: I think the archlinux ops didn't decide to do the +i and redirect
2021-05-31 09:18:55	oxek	bjs: they did
2021-05-31 09:18:59	oxek	it was on their own terms this time
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2021-05-31 09:19:28	bjs	oh
2021-05-31 09:19:29	bjs	fair enough
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2021-05-31 09:33:10	maum	hello
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2021-05-31 09:37:41	maum	how can I get remaining number from list? for example there is list = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10], and we delete odd index number until one number remains.. how can I do this?
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2021-05-31 10:02:26	medard	Hello - how do I insert custom headers into requests.get() method?
2021-05-31 10:03:06	<--	hussam (~hussam@unaffiliated/hussam) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-31 10:04:01	medard	I want to put in simple key:value pair
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2021-05-31 10:05:50	oxek	this channel is inactive https://www.pound-python.org/
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2021-05-31 11:15:52	Thanatos	Hello everyone
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2021-05-31 11:20:30	pyforest	hi!
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2021-05-31 11:44:53	twainwek	is there a canonical way of creating flask tables without using `flask shell` followed by `db.create_all()`
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2021-05-31 11:45:34	twainwek	oops i realized i'm in the wrong channel
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2021-05-31 11:56:06	gitesh	the type function will tell you the class the value belongs to
2021-05-31 11:56:24	gitesh	what is the difference between type and class?
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2021-05-31 11:57:56	Tashtari	gitesh: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 12:34:28	bjs	gitesh: there's no difference in Python.  type(obj) returns the class.  You just can't have a function called class(obj) (because `class` is part of the syntax)
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2021-05-31 12:36:26	bjs	gitesh: by the way, the people who usually answer your questions have all moved to the #python channel on the irc.libera.chat network.  See https://www.python.org/community/irc/ for details.  (You can connect to it and then register your nickname like you did here,  then connect to #python there)
2021-05-31 12:36:26	gitesh	cool
2021-05-31 12:36:47	bjs	gitesh: some may still be here,  but a lot have now left entirely and are only there
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2021-05-31 12:44:53	--	purplex_ is now known as purplex
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2021-05-31 12:47:26	gitesh	which image manipulation library do you guys use?
2021-05-31 12:47:33	-->	kostkon_ (~androirc@unaffiliated/kostkon) has joined #python
2021-05-31 12:47:42	gitesh	i need to register on libera to join #python there
2021-05-31 12:47:44	-->	orbyt_ (~orbyt@172.92.4.78) has joined #python
2021-05-31 12:47:55	gitesh	https://pypi.org/search/?q=cImage++
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2021-05-31 12:48:12	KirkMcDonald	Pillow is the main one for Python.
2021-05-31 12:48:23	Tashtari	gitesh: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-05-31 12:49:28	gitesh	KirkMcDonald: ok
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2021-05-31 12:58:13	n00b101	is there any lib to get my current ipv6 address?
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2021-05-31 13:02:01	DarthGandalf	n00b101: hi, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python (see https://www.pound-python.org from topic) and most active users have moved already. You're more likely to get an answer there
2021-05-31 13:02:06	<--	Allegretto_ (~allegrett@178-164-247-122.pool.digikabel.hu) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-31 13:02:21	n00b101	oh.. everybody moved..
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2021-05-31 13:04:13	-->	ashwanig (~ashwanig@103.87.143.252) has joined #python
2021-05-31 13:04:29	bjs	gitesh: yes you needed to register to join #python here too,  it's worth registering over there so you can join the channel there
2021-05-31 13:04:57	-->	sagax (~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) has joined #python
2021-05-31 13:05:21	vdamewood	I'm pretty much only here to see what happens.
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2021-05-31 13:07:25	oxek	same
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2021-05-31 13:07:36	habnabit_	but then their numbers don't go down
2021-05-31 13:08:21	Tashtari	I'm pretty much only here to redirect folks - and await a chanserv clear of this channel.  Once the latter happens, I'm off freenode for good.
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2021-05-31 13:12:08	onexused	Is it okay to ask PyQt questions here? #pyqt is pretty empty.
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2021-05-31 13:12:24	vdamewood	onexused: Freenode is pretty empty.
2021-05-31 13:12:29	Tashtari	onexused: It's okay but not very effective, since this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-31 13:12:44	vdamewood	Qt has moved to Libera as well.
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2021-05-31 13:12:53	onexused	Ah.  Thanks.  Why the move?
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2021-05-31 13:14:47	vdamewood	Oh, wait. PyQt is the bindings by Riverbank, not the first-party bindings.
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2021-05-31 13:16:01	greyblue9	onexused: https://texasnewstoday.com/major-open-source-projects-abandon-freenode-following-hostile-takeovers/290023/
2021-05-31 13:16:49	vdamewood	They left.
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2021-05-31 13:18:26	Tashtari	They're in a better place now.
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2021-05-31 13:42:24	ChrisWarrick	vdamewood: (the good bindings are pyside2)
2021-05-31 13:42:36	ChrisWarrick	(or even pyside6)
2021-05-31 13:42:42	vdamewood	ChrisWarrick: I know.
2021-05-31 13:42:59	vdamewood	Thos the ones I use when I use Qt in Python. (I usually stick to C++ with Qt).
2021-05-31 13:43:02	vdamewood	Those*
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2021-05-31 13:48:47	vdamewood	Well, I think I'll head out now. There really isn't anything more to watch here.
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2021-05-31 14:02:06	Laibsch	https://paste.debian.net/1199519/ has some clever code.  Can somebody explain to me or just give me the right term to google for {m:02} in line 4?  It seems to format the m int variable to 2 digits.
2021-05-31 14:02:51	Tashtari	Laibsch: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-31 14:03:23	Laibsch	Tashtari: Thx
2021-05-31 14:03:32	gst568923	Hi guys, I have this values of coordinates Lat=37N0512 Lon=15E1716 what format DMS are? and how can I convert them to decimal?
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2021-05-31 14:06:47	Tashtari	gst568923: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-05-31 14:08:11	gst568923	Tashtari for the moment i can't move from freenode
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2021-05-31 14:10:48	oxek	gst568923: out of curiosity, what is preventing it?
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2021-05-31 14:12:56	gst568923	oxek I have to re-register because the python channel can only be accessed with credentials
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2021-05-31 14:13:13	oxek	gst568923: and is that a big problem?
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2021-05-31 14:13:38	Tashtari	gst568923: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-05-31 14:13:48	oxek	I just want to know, so that I can understand what's delaying people with the move
2021-05-31 14:14:43	gst568923	oxek no, it's not a problem but for the moment I can't
2021-05-31 14:14:56	ChrisWarrick	gst568923: you can’t, because?
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2021-05-31 14:17:21	gst568923	ChrisWarrick instead of asking myself why I can't, why don't you answer the question I asked?
2021-05-31 14:18:00	ChrisWarrick	gst568923: not everyone can answer every question, you know
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2021-05-31 14:20:24	habnabit_	gst568923, if you're having some trouble with moving/registration, we can probably help you with that too
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2021-05-31 15:22:58	aaronfc	Hi there! How should I deal with my file (calendar.py) colliding with some other file contained in a package I am using (icalendar) ? I have a series of methods related to calendar and events which rely on a package `icalendar`. But I named the file where I have all the methods related to calendar events calendar.py and it seems to collide with
2021-05-31 15:22:59	aaronfc	some internal class from icalendar. Is there any solution that does not imply renaming my package from calendar.py to ... my_calendar.py, or something even weirder?
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2021-05-31 15:26:33	Tashtari	aaronfc: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 15:26:56	aaronfc	Understood, thanks Tashtari
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2021-05-31 15:41:42	blink	so in python flask, i have some pages that require you to login on awknode.com
2021-05-31 15:41:58	blink	once you login, it takes you back to the homepage (as the code is designed to do)
2021-05-31 15:42:04	blink	how would i send them to the originating request
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2021-05-31 15:42:12	Tashtari	blink: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 16:01:30	ChrisWarrick	blink: redirect to /login?next=/the/thing/they/tried/to/access, then send the `next` value with the credentials and redirect there
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2021-05-31 16:37:41	GrandPa-G	I have a long script that defines a class. Is there anyway I can take a big chunk of it and put it in another file without making it a class?
2021-05-31 16:38:55	nedbat	GrandPa-G: we are mostly on another network now: https://libera.chat.  But what do you mean by "a big chunk of it"?  Of the class?
2021-05-31 16:39:30	blink	ahh thanks ChrisWarrick
2021-05-31 16:41:00	GrandPa-G	nedbat, the file that is long defines a class. In that class, it calls a number of functions, some really long. Now the entire file is long. I just want to take a few functions and move to a seperate file to make editing easier.
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2021-05-31 16:41:19	Aaron	I love python <3
2021-05-31 16:41:23	Aaron	the best languague and C
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2021-05-31 16:41:29	Aaron	so simple
2021-05-31 16:41:41	nedbat	GrandPa-G: you can't split the class across files.  if the class is that long, maybe it should be multiple classes anyway
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2021-05-31 16:42:19	GrandPa-G	nedbat, that's what I thought, but just hoping. Thanks.
2021-05-31 16:43:29	Aaron	import pdb ;X
2021-05-31 16:43:56	Aaron	import a MODULE
2021-05-31 16:44:10	Aaron	pdb.run('mymodule.test()')
2021-05-31 16:44:22	Aaron	and then we get the string
2021-05-31 16:44:33	Aaron	<string>(0)?()
2021-05-31 16:44:52	Aaron	https://docs.python.org/3/library/pdb.html
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2021-05-31 16:45:42	Aaron	is always a good practice to write some type of debugging so we can see the errors and trace bugs easier...
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2021-05-31 18:44:14	powerninja	Hi I'm indexing through a list that might have or have not all values, how can I call the function(create_group), so that it won't error when missing KeyError: 'Description'? Here's my code https://bpa.st/BTXA
2021-05-31 18:44:28	powerninja	thanks
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2021-05-31 18:47:19	Tashtari	powerninja: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 18:48:02	powerninja	OK how do I join? I change the server?
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2021-05-31 18:49:27	powerninja	I'm using limechat
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2021-05-31 18:50:02	powerninja	nm I'm at the website to see how to connect with limechat, thanks
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2021-05-31 19:26:35	yanmaani	Tashtari: you a bot?
2021-05-31 19:26:42	Tashtari	Nope.
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2021-05-31 19:27:09	Tashtari	I'm just interested in getting people over to libera.
2021-05-31 19:27:32	yanmaani	king
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2021-05-31 19:28:37	yanmaani	now I wonder if you could make a bot for it tho, since it's just the same message to everyone who joins and writes something
2021-05-31 19:29:03	Tashtari	You could try, but a lot of the people who haven't already moved need help with things like registering their nick or adding the network to HexChat or similar.
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2021-05-31 19:31:56	stenio	hello, i'm looking for some document on python's site to set up a web server, can anyone here tell me which direction to go?
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2021-05-31 19:32:23	Tashtari	stenio: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 19:35:42	stenio	Tashtari: thanks, i'll see how to migrate there!
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2021-05-31 19:57:02	qxt	there any good python checkers that will help me keep my code clean. Been using vi for a while mostly in fbsd.
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2021-05-31 19:57:52	qxt	mostly a C coder and I'll be the first to admit my python looks terrible
2021-05-31 19:58:58	nedbat	qxt: pylint and flake8 are good, and black is a formatter.  we are mostly at https://libera.chat now though
2021-05-31 19:59:40	stenio	Tashtari: I did not find anything there
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2021-05-31 20:00:15	DarthGandalf	stenio: maybe wrong network or wrong channel?
2021-05-31 20:00:25	Tashtari	stenio: Are you sure you're on the right network?  irc.libera.chat #python is not empty.  Note that there is a "LibraIRC" in HexChat's networks that is not the same thing as irc.libera.chat.
2021-05-31 20:00:32	qxt	nedbat OK just tried pylint out. Thought it was a bit cryptic but maybe that's just me. Ill give flake8 a try too
2021-05-31 20:01:25	stenio	DarthGandalf: I went straight to the web channel there nothing or nobody
2021-05-31 20:02:09	DarthGandalf	can you share the url where exactly you went? because libera #python has lots of people
2021-05-31 20:02:34	Tashtari	stenio: Possibly it's because you don't have a registered nick there?  Just like here, you need a registered nick to join #python.
2021-05-31 20:03:00	yanmaani	qxt: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 20:03:31	qxt	OK thx
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2021-05-31 20:43:48	jacklong	how to process big file concurrently
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2021-05-31 20:45:14	jarthur	jacklong which aspect are you hoping to do concurrently, the reading of the file, or the crunching of the file's data?
2021-05-31 20:47:04	nedbat	jacklong, jarthur: we are mostly at https://libera.chat now
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2021-05-31 21:00:28	jacklong	nedbat, should I change my irc network server?
2021-05-31 21:00:51	nedbat	jacklong: yes
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2021-05-31 21:10:34	jacklong	jarthur, crunching of the file's data
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2021-05-31 21:16:55	jarthur	jacklong then that's going to depend on the kind of workload. Assuming the work can be split up, you are likely going to want an event loop like asyncio or Trio for networking/HTTP/DB waiting, threads if its machine code (i.e. C libs, hashlib, pillow, cryptography), multiprocessing if it's Python math.
2021-05-31 21:17:44	jacklong	jarthur, the data is in a file ,not from network
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2021-05-31 21:30:44	jarthur	jacklong sure, what are you going to do with the data? That ultimately is going to determine the best concurrency approach
2021-05-31 21:31:38	jacklong	jarthur, just send the data to a cmdline line by line
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2021-05-31 21:32:35	jarthur	jacklong like print it stdout? If so, may not be man opportunities for concurrency if it's all in the same file and you're needing to process it sequentially.
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2021-05-31 21:35:56	jacklong	jarthur, the data is firewall security rules ,which I will use for apply
2021-05-31 21:36:51	jarthur	jacklong alright, and does order of applying it matter? Is the command line processing you're talking about running a Firewall administration command?
2021-05-31 21:37:12	jacklong	yes ,the order is not concern
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2021-05-31 22:53:05	Karthy	hey what does for i in range(80/blacksize) do block size is 16 btw i dont understand how it works
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2021-05-31 23:17:26	djapo	how do I specify that I want pandas to treat all columns as string types
2021-05-31 23:17:35	djapo	even when it finds an int in them
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2021-05-31 23:17:45	Tashtari	djapo: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-05-31 23:54:17	Luther	hello, anybody know this question?
2021-05-31 23:54:18	Luther	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67782510/pip3-install-mysqlclient-get-error-include-python-h-compile-inter
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2021-05-31 23:59:11	Tashtari	Luther: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 00:14:55	Luther	Tashtari. thanks
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2021-06-01 00:26:04	genoobie	hey all
2021-06-01 00:26:11	genoobie	I'm trying to write some vpython
2021-06-01 00:26:32	genoobie	and when I put the code into trinket, I get an error "pos must be a vector"
2021-06-01 00:26:41	genoobie	no line number reference, etc.
2021-06-01 00:26:43	genoobie	any tips?
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2021-06-01 00:36:15	genoobie	nm, got it!
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2021-06-01 04:32:34	Rose	Hi
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2021-06-01 04:33:09	Rose	What is the best way to code ?
2021-06-01 04:33:17	Rose	anyone knows?
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2021-06-01 05:40:14	diverdude	hllo
2021-06-01 05:40:44	diverdude	If i do from datetime import datetime as dt        what are the required arguments for dt.time() then?
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2021-06-01 05:41:01	diverdude	i tried sending both int and str and nothing but it did not work
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2021-06-01 05:42:17	gcbirzan	diverdude: It takes no arguments: https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.time
2021-06-01 05:42:34	gcbirzan	I mean, if you're gonna use it on the class, you need to pass it an instance.
2021-06-01 05:42:38	gcbirzan	diverdude: What are you trying to do?
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2021-06-01 05:43:26	diverdude	gcbirzan: i have an integer representing seconds (24h) and a date object....and i want to create a datetime object from this
2021-06-01 05:43:47	diverdude	gcbirzan: i thought i can use dt.combine
2021-06-01 05:44:16	diverdude	gcbirzan: but i cannot figure out how to create the time part
2021-06-01 05:44:31	KirkMcDonald	diverdude: You are accessing datetime.datetime.time when I think you want datetime.time
2021-06-01 05:44:37	gcbirzan	You'll need to convert it to hours, minutes, seconds.
2021-06-01 05:44:45	diverdude	KirkMcDonald: ahh
2021-06-01 05:44:47	KirkMcDonald	One is a method of the datetime *type*, the other is a type in the datetime *module*.
2021-06-01 05:45:28	diverdude	KirkMcDonald: yes this is exactly my issue. thanks (how confusing)
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2021-06-01 06:12:18	c4pt00	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY4lzTfdBWw
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2021-06-01 06:13:13	nedbat	c4pt00: no thanks
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2021-06-01 06:19:26	masterkorp0	Hello
2021-06-01 06:19:40	masterkorp0	Does this channel plan to stay in freenode ?
2021-06-01 06:19:42	diverdude	Anybody has a good idea for a place where a 17 year old can find beginner learning projects to learn python? :)
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2021-06-01 06:19:57	masterkorp0	there are plenty of them diverdude\
2021-06-01 06:20:32	nedbat	masterkorp0: we are mostly moving to libera.chat
2021-06-01 06:20:46	Yhg1s	masterkorp0: let's say the channel already moved.
2021-06-01 06:21:00	masterkorp0	yet there is till more activity here
2021-06-01 06:21:09	masterkorp0	just confirming, thank you
2021-06-01 06:21:09	Yhg1s	no, it's way more active over there.
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2021-06-01 06:21:27	masterkorp0	Oh, I must have gotten the wrong impression then
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2021-06-01 06:29:41	kosh	it is definitely more activate on libera.chat this place is almost dead
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2021-06-01 06:48:28	habnabit_	yeah this is the least active i've _ever_ seen #python
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2021-06-01 06:59:05	kosh	masterkorp0, just make sure you are connecting to the right server https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-01 06:59:43	kosh	masterkorp0, there are apparently some servers with similar names in hexchat and other programs that will take you to the wrong server
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2021-06-01 07:08:58	sh123124213	hi, does multiprocess.Manager require a lock ?
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2021-06-01 08:33:46	oxek	masterkorp0: there is no activity here
2021-06-01 08:34:01	oxek	just people talking about moving to libera
2021-06-01 08:34:17	oxek	sh123124213: for you too, read /topic, this channel is inactive
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2021-06-01 09:21:43	lseactuary	can someone help me understand why my code doesn't work: https://pastebin.com/fH9RQ6mV
2021-06-01 09:21:58	lseactuary	it throws "TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting" but i dont understand why
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2021-06-01 09:29:05	oxek	lseactuary: read /topic
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2021-06-01 09:30:15	lseactuary	it is not homework :)
2021-06-01 09:30:25	lseactuary	i am just going through some questions to learn online
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2021-06-01 09:31:23	oxek	lseactuary: your homework should be to find out where the correct #python channel is, because this one is not it
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2021-06-01 09:32:38	lseactuary	hmm this is not the python channel? this is where i normally come.
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2021-06-01 09:34:26	Itlis	Hi, I'm not sure what are the best practices to manage my application versions on git, today I have a script that increase the PATCH part of my version for every merge to the main branch. I saw some libraries that manually increase the versions to be like "2.8.0-alpha" and to "2.8.0-final" once done. Anyone has some good references or direction
2021-06-01 09:34:26	Itlis	about what's recommended? Thanks
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2021-06-01 09:35:05	oxek	lseactuary: if you read /topic then you'd know
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2021-06-01 09:35:48	oxek	Itlis: this is no longer an active python channel, read the /topic to find out where we moved to
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2021-06-01 09:37:20	lseactuary	how to read the topic plz?
2021-06-01 09:38:09	oxek	lseactuary: just visit https://www.pound-python.org then
2021-06-01 09:38:32	oxek	it will tell you which network to join
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2021-06-01 09:40:02	lseactuary	hmm this also says use this channel?
2021-06-01 09:41:21	oxek	no it does not
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2021-06-01 09:46:54	lseactuary	"#python is not a social chat channel; it is a technical help channel."
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2021-06-01 09:47:47	Yhg1s	lseactuary: I'm not sure how the fact that we moved the channel to libera.chat is confusing you, considering it's explicitly mentioned on pound-python.org.
2021-06-01 09:48:08	lseactuary	oh
2021-06-01 09:48:20	lseactuary	sorry i misunderstoodf
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2021-06-01 10:01:09	yanmaani	Why not set a join message with chanserv
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2021-06-01 10:04:52	ChrisWarrick	yanmaani: because the new management will nuke the channel if we do that
2021-06-01 10:05:17	yanmaani	ChrisWarrick: they said it would be OK in #freenode
2021-06-01 10:05:30	ChrisWarrick	yanmaani: I wouldn’t trust them
2021-06-01 10:05:42	habnabit_	yanmaani, freenode is +m; where did you see that?
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2021-06-01 10:06:04	oxek	this channel will be nuked anyway
2021-06-01 10:06:05	yanmaani	nashimus: in #freenode; they said it to someone else
2021-06-01 10:06:25	oxek	at least close it on your own, rather than having them do it for you
2021-06-01 10:06:44	yanmaani	If you'd set a bot to tell everyone to migrate, though...
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2021-06-01 10:07:47	oxek	there are lots of channels that have "Moved to libera" in the topic, and in EntryMsg, and people periodically post a message about it in the channel as well. And the channels are not closed yet.
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2021-06-01 10:21:49	dunk	Is there a cunning way to view previous versions of a particular package's docs on readthedocs.io?
2021-06-01 10:22:10	nedbat	dunk: what package?
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2021-06-01 10:22:32	dunk	nedbat: Faker
2021-06-01 10:22:33	dunk	https://faker.readthedocs.io/en/master/
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2021-06-01 10:22:50	yanmaani	dunk: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 10:23:16	nedbat	dunk: the version picker there only lists master/latest/stable.  You could clone the repo and build them yourself.
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2021-06-01 10:23:38	dunk	nedbat: yeah, I was worried you might say that
2021-06-01 10:24:02	nedbat	dunk: I'm sorry to materialize your deepest fears :)
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2021-06-01 10:26:44	dunk	nedbat: nono, my deepest fears are that we are all going to be forced to write Rust
2021-06-01 10:26:51	habnabit_	but rust is so good
2021-06-01 10:26:57	nedbat	dunk: i will join you in that one :)
2021-06-01 10:27:05	nedbat	i'm too old to learn new things :) :)
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2021-06-01 10:31:58	dunk	habnabit_: You're banned
2021-06-01 10:32:30	habnabit_	dunk, ?
2021-06-01 10:33:04	dunk	habnabit_: Apostasy is the highest crime
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2021-06-01 10:34:04	dunk	On a more serious note, it just makes me a bit sad that everyone has this major thing for Rust when it's mostly a low-level systems thing, but with better memory management etc. And also: static types.
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2021-06-01 10:34:29	dunk	Like, it would be nice if we were moving more in the direction of something like Prolog, rather than making a better C.
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2021-06-01 10:51:10	acresearch	hello people, if i have a list of tuples, [(x, y, z, a, b), (x, y, z, a, b) ... ] len=1,000 I am trying to find how is this list sorted, is it sorted by (x smallest to largest) or (y smallest to largest) etc...   how can i find out?
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2021-06-01 10:58:12	nedbat	acresearch: is there a third option? The list isn't sorted?
2021-06-01 11:02:18	acresearch	nedbat: yes, i don't know how that list is organised, it could be arbitrary, but how can i find out?
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2021-06-01 11:07:25	nedbat	acresearch: you can write a function to test if the list is sorted
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2021-06-01 11:08:49	acresearch	hmmm, check if sorted? how? is there a method within <list>?
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2021-06-01 11:09:13	nlate1	Is there typing for, 'member from class'? I have a dummy enum class that just holds strings, but it would be nice to annotate that a variable is going to be a member from this class rather than just annotating as string
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2021-06-01 11:11:16	nedbat	acresearch: there isn't a checker, you have to write it yourself: each element is less than the next element, for example
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2021-06-01 11:17:55	SnoopJ	a useful minor spell: `all(predicate(a,b) for a,b in zip(thing[:-1], thing[1:]))` where maybe `predicate(a,b)` would be `a <= b` for checking that a sequence is sorted
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2021-06-01 11:32:31	nedbat	acresearch, nlate1: btw: join us at https://libera.chat
2021-06-01 11:32:56	nlate1	Oh, thanks for the heads up. I forgot the IRC world exploded
2021-06-01 11:33:03	acresearch	nlate1: ok
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2021-06-01 11:33:18	nedbat	nlate1: in the end, it's not a big change at all :)
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2021-06-01 11:48:44	kosh	it is just a change of server, same people, same channels
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2021-06-01 13:06:41	dbax	Some time after posting a question here i get disconnected without noticing and somebody might have had answered my question while I am disconnected. is there a solution for being able to stay connected all the time or being able to see the chat history while  I am was disconnected ?
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2021-06-01 13:22:47	yanmaani	dbax: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 13:33:37	 *	dtux just registered over there
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2021-06-01 14:00:32	LuxuryMode	Anyone know how to set up logging to appear in cloudwatch from a Python app? This package appears to be dead https://pypi.org/project/cloudwatch/ (github page not found)
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2021-06-01 14:02:21	dbax	yanmaani:  thanks
2021-06-01 14:02:35	yanmaani	LuxuryMode: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 14:03:06	LuxuryMode	:( thanks
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2021-06-01 17:05:53	Evidlo	is the libera channel bridged here?
2021-06-01 17:06:23	-->	tos9 (~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9) has joined #python
2021-06-01 17:06:44	Peng	No
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2021-06-01 17:06:58	Tashtari	Evidlo: It is not.  All that's here are dead bouncers and helpful folks to help you connect to libera.  =)
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2021-06-01 17:13:04	AckSynAck	hello, which book do you recommend to start with graph databases?
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2021-06-01 17:17:20	AckSynAck	(is it something I said?)
2021-06-01 17:17:35	Tashtari	AckSynAck: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 17:20:40	ChrisWarrick	AckSynAck: I would recommend SQL databases. PostgreSQL in particular.
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2021-06-01 17:47:34	AckSynAck	ChrisWarrick, thank you! :)
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2021-06-01 17:47:46	AckSynAck	Tashtari, thank you, didnt know at all! :)
2021-06-01 17:47:57	ChrisWarrick	AckSynAck: you’re welcome!
2021-06-01 17:47:59	Tashtari	_o>
2021-06-01 17:48:37	ChrisWarrick	(Most problems are best solved by a relational database. Graph databases aren’t really necessary for many things people use them for. And at $PREVIOUS_DAYJOB, we had a graph db thing with abysmal performance and weird bugs.)
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2021-06-01 17:53:42	AckSynAck	ChrisWarrick, lol, I am directed to it in a job application context, which requires basic knowledge of it :)
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2021-06-01 17:54:29	ChrisWarrick	On the theory side, there isn’t much really to know about a graph database
2021-06-01 17:54:59	ChrisWarrick	On the usage side, there is no single standrdized query language/API between them
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2021-06-01 17:55:20	AckSynAck	there is a mention of a query language named "cypher"
2021-06-01 17:55:30	AckSynAck	for neo4j
2021-06-01 17:55:53	AckSynAck	but not a standard one, probably
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2021-06-01 18:00:59	ChrisWarrick	if they didn’t tell you what graph trainwreck-of-a-database they expect, you might want to spend some time playing around with neo4j, but I’m not sure if I would
2021-06-01 18:01:38	AckSynAck	oops :)
2021-06-01 18:01:43	AckSynAck	so bad?
2021-06-01 18:01:59	ChrisWarrick	they’re very often overhyped
2021-06-01 18:02:12	AckSynAck	it does seem to be a trendy thing, yeah
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2021-06-01 18:07:02	ChrisWarrick	I once ran `UPDATE table_with_100k_records SET is_foo = true WHERE column_we_queried_by_often = 'specific-value'` at said $PREVIOUS_DAYJOB. We had this table both in the graph thing and in postgres (we mirrored it to postgres, long story). Postgres did it instantly, the graph thing (which I’m not going to name) took 5-10 seconds.
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2021-06-01 18:07:55	AckSynAck	how about other nosql databases? any worthwhile one to learn?
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2021-06-01 18:09:00	ChrisWarrick	not really
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2021-06-01 18:09:32	ChrisWarrick	sure, there are cases where nosql works well
2021-06-01 18:09:41	ChrisWarrick	but there are many more cases where sql works better
2021-06-01 18:10:22	ChrisWarrick	and if you know sql well, you should be able to learn a nosql thing as you go if needed
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2021-06-01 18:11:00	AckSynAck	hmm, the core argument of nosql seems to be addressing complex networks, do relational dbs serve well there, too?
2021-06-01 18:11:18	AckSynAck	complex / large
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2021-06-01 18:12:20	ChrisWarrick	yes, of course
2021-06-01 18:12:39	ChrisWarrick	your bank most likely lives in a relational db
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2021-06-01 18:20:11	yanmaani1	purpose of nosql is to sell nosql database software
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2021-06-01 18:22:14	AckSyncAck	ChrisWarrick, thank you for your insights...have a good day / night!
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2021-06-01 18:22:22	AckSyncAck	resuming work :)
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2021-06-01 18:22:44	ChrisWarrick	you’re welcome, and have a good $TIME_OF_DAY too!
2021-06-01 18:22:56	AckSyncAck	thank you :)
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2021-06-01 18:41:24	scwizard	Is this a good place for python library questions too? DeepDiff isn't working how I expect
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2021-06-01 18:42:03	yanmaani	scwizard: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-01 18:43:46	scwizard	is https://librairc.net/ the same as irc.libera.chat ?
2021-06-01 18:44:25	Tashtari	Nope, libera.chat is only about a week or two old at this point - your client is unlikely to have it preconfigured.
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2021-06-01 18:49:15	scwizard	ahh I was hoping there would be a web client, idk if my firewall even allows irc traffic :(
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2021-06-01 18:55:18	bjs	scwizard: https://web.libera.chat/
2021-06-01 18:55:26	scwizard	im in ty
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2021-06-01 18:57:45	pycode	hello! is this stupid to call such constants that way: https://bpa.st/RYDQ ? :D
2021-06-01 18:57:51	pycode	(it is a django model)
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2021-06-01 19:02:05	Tashtari	pycode: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-01 19:04:44	Evidlo	The topic could do a better job of mentioning the Libera transition
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2021-06-01 19:05:00	pycode	what are the server? irc.libera.chat ?
2021-06-01 19:05:00	yanmaani	Evidlo: no, that gets you banned :P
2021-06-01 19:05:02	pycode	this?
2021-06-01 19:05:07	yanmaani	pycode: irc.libera.chat
2021-06-01 19:05:16	yanmaani	see libera.chat website for guide on how to connect etc
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2021-06-01 19:05:44	oxek	yanmaani: they don't ban anymore
2021-06-01 19:06:06	oxek	100s of channels have had it in their /topic since that one big thing, and nothing happened since
2021-06-01 19:06:14	oxek	/msg alis list * -topic libera
2021-06-01 19:06:43	oxek	shows only 60 channels at once, you need to add '-skip 60' to see the next 60
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2021-06-01 19:07:31	yanmaani	oh yeah, that's what they say
2021-06-01 19:07:33	yanmaani	true
2021-06-01 19:07:35	yanmaani	as long as you're not +m
2021-06-01 19:07:43	yanmaani	and you can have it as join msg too
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2021-06-01 19:08:10	oxek	they haven't done anything to the channels since that day
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2021-06-01 19:08:31	ammar2	that's not a very good thing to base off
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2021-06-01 19:08:40	ammar2	nothing is stopping them from doing it again
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2021-06-01 19:12:57	bjs	oxek: it's still against freenode policy to "advertise other networks" in the topic
2021-06-01 19:13:47	bjs	oxek: so that alis search is really just a list of channels that freenode can shut down at will and point to some vague policy.  It's obviously fair enough and up to freenode for that policy,  but I can see why many communities would wish to go somewhere else too.
2021-06-01 19:14:02	oxek	bjs: it's not really specific enough, hence they haven't done anything with it. Debian has been advertising OFTC in their /topic for the past 15 years :)
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2021-06-01 19:14:43	bjs	oxek: not specific enough?  the policy is quite clear, "we do not support advertising other networks in channel topics";  they're just being selective in when they actually enforce the policy
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2021-06-01 19:15:50	oxek	bjs: they haven't done anything since that day, and the word "advertise" is not specific enough. "Hey, this channel exists on efnet/ircnet/libera/oftc as well" is hardly advertising in my opinion.
2021-06-01 19:15:53	bjs	which doesn't sound like a healthy community,  it sounds like a quagmire of policy to be used to squash communities they don't like (in my opinion) whenever they want, and they have proven they will indeed do that and do so selectively.
2021-06-01 19:16:05	oxek	but of course freenode is not a healthy place to be right now
2021-06-01 19:16:22	bjs	oxek: it's clearly specific enough,  since they have used it before.  But yes if we ignore all the times they've done things and used the vague policy as a weapon then yes
2021-06-01 19:16:23	oxek	I'd definitely have at least a migration plan in place, if the channel hasn't migrated yet
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2021-06-01 19:17:18	bjs	oxek: it may be _your_ opinion it doesn't count as advertising,  but it clearly is the opinion of (some?) freenode staff.
2021-06-01 19:18:02	bjs	and it's that "some"-ness and the uncertainty and the ambiguity and how policies like this can just appear at any time (including _after_ they've been enforced)
2021-06-01 19:18:08	bjs	it's clearly been too much for some communities
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2021-06-01 19:19:21	oxek	I support communities moving away. Freenode has been full of zombies for at least a decade, artificially inflating the number of actual living users.
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2021-06-01 19:19:42	bjs	yes, see this channel for e.g. :P
2021-06-01 19:19:43	oxek	this way the number of users on libera is more representative of the state of IRC
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2021-06-01 19:20:23	ammar2	the number of users on this channel here vs libera isn't /that/ different
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2021-06-01 19:25:25	oxek	ammar2: using #perl as an example, after it was CLEARed once, the users went from >1k to ~50
2021-06-01 19:25:37	oxek	people were just idle on that channel for decades
2021-06-01 19:26:05	oxek	I'd expect it to be the same for #python if it was CLEARed
2021-06-01 19:26:19	ammar2	same here but I guess a network change got people moving at least
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2021-06-01 19:28:04	emma	it wouldn't be as bad as >1K to ~50
2021-06-01 19:28:25	oxek	ammar2: if you do `/whois <nick> <nick>` on people in this channel, you'll see that some have been idle since before this whole freenode situation
2021-06-01 19:28:30	oxek	they don't even know anything happened yet
2021-06-01 19:28:34	ammar2	to be fair perl itself is a dead language so not an apples to apples comparison
2021-06-01 19:28:37	ammar2	^^
2021-06-01 19:28:42	oxek	lol
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2021-06-01 19:29:01	emma	I'm sure there's people who would consider those fighting words
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2021-06-01 19:30:08	emma	the person who previously ran #perl on freenode was designated to run that channel by Larry Wall himself. Then Freenode under this new management comandeered it and cleared the channel.
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2021-06-01 19:37:34	oxek	and then that person got it back
2021-06-01 19:37:50	oxek	after they sent one email to support@freenode.net
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2021-06-01 19:50:30	py-bb	emma: that's not true
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2021-06-01 19:51:04	py-bb	#perl closed itself down, +m'ed and declared itself dead, it was redirected to ##perl, and eventually it needed someone to set a topic and that.
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2021-06-01 19:51:55	py-bb	oxek: the #perl ops are quite famous, you'd ask a question in #perl and get 3-5 PMs because they'd ban people as sort of running jokes (eg ask about ithreads, it's deprecated, but you know it exists)
2021-06-01 19:51:59	py-bb	Like to be fair.
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2021-06-01 19:54:43	oxek	I know that place well :)
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2021-06-01 19:54:57	oxek	will see how the new place goes
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2021-06-01 20:00:15	emma	py-bb: No, what I'm saying is true. I saw it discussed in #irssi -- https://dpaste.com/5U64XFX74
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2021-06-01 20:10:58	py-bb	Sorry DCed
2021-06-01 20:11:03	py-bb	BTW http://csg.csail.mit.edu/6.893/Handouts/PythonWhatsNew.pdf this is old but I enjoyed it
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2021-06-01 20:14:29	oxek	emma: oh I was part of that discussion
2021-06-01 20:14:36	oxek	and what they were saying was not correct
2021-06-01 20:14:53	oxek	they then followed my advice, sent an email and got the channel back in ~40 minutes
2021-06-01 20:14:54	--	Jigsy` is now known as Jigsy
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2021-06-01 20:17:03	oxek	I also believe that the staff member they initially talked with is no longer a staff member of freenode
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2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Topic for #python is "We are on Libera | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Sat, 29 May 2021 15:05:17
2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Channel #python: 985 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 985 normals)
2021-06-01 20:39:36	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
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2021-06-01 23:03:32	brizz	im trying to read a file, and I get an error:UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xed in position 2376:.  It occurs on "for row in f:", so I can't try, except, continue, because its not in a for loop.  is there anything I can do to continue past the error?
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2021-06-01 23:05:02	Tashtari	brizz: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-01 23:06:43	brizz	just curous, why?
2021-06-01 23:06:46	brizz	curious
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2021-06-01 23:07:54	Tashtari	Freenode has had a sudden and rather unwelcome and chaotic change of leadership.
2021-06-01 23:08:56	Tashtari	#python (along with many, many other channels) has elected to move to irc.libera.chat, which was founded by the former freenode staffers who resigned in protest of the change.
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2021-06-01 23:31:52	py-bb	brizz: but we'll still answer your questions here
2021-06-01 23:32:37	py-bb	brizz: .... not really but yes. UTF8's encoding.... just look for the next start of character
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2021-06-01 23:32:43	py-bb	It could be a few bytes ahead
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2021-06-01 23:34:28	py-bb	brizz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Encoding
2021-06-01 23:34:47	py-bb	I'm going to bed now but let me know if still stuck, I'm not on Libera
2021-06-01 23:35:31	habnabit_	py-bb, need help connecting?
2021-06-01 23:35:51	py-bb	habnabit_: no I'm good
2021-06-01 23:35:59	py-bb	Thanks though
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2021-06-01 23:37:46	py-bb	brizz: so you can see the encoding there, look for the next byte that matches the 1st byte column
2021-06-01 23:38:02	Tashtari	py-bb: He seems to have had the question answered on libera.
2021-06-01 23:38:44	py-bb	What more is there to say Tashtari?
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2021-06-01 23:50:32	blink	would transferring mysqldb.cursors over to sqlite3 in python flask be a good idea? looks easier to deal with
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2021-06-02 02:50:09	epony	how did you come to that misunderstanding?  Jun01 2328<ammar2> to be fair perl itself is a dead language so not an apples to apples comparison
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2021-06-02 02:59:38	epony	on my Operating System Perl5 is included in the base OS, while Python is not, and the package management system is built with Perl5, and not Python
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2021-06-02 03:09:10	Angs	I am trying to use pytest to catch exception if url.lib.request.urlopen() function would fail, but I can't cover it by pytest. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong. Here is my app.py https://pastebin.com/dvps4V5w and here is my test_app.py https://pastebin.com/hf1Rmutn
2021-06-02 03:09:23	DocMors	epony, what OS is that?
2021-06-02 03:09:37	epony	DocMors, OpenBSD
2021-06-02 03:09:39	Angs	and pytest --cov report app.py     11      2    82%   15-16   the last part (15-16) are the missing column
2021-06-02 03:10:08	DocMors	OpenBSD does not have python installed by default? I somehow doubt that.
2021-06-02 03:10:21	epony	yeah, it's a hard NO.
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2021-06-02 03:12:04	epony	no need to strain yourself with that, it's an example to show you how very much alive and preferred it is for getting things done in reality
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2021-06-02 03:13:45	epony	also, have you heard about Python Compatible Regular Expressions?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_Compatible_Regular_Expressions
2021-06-02 03:14:12	epony	enjoy your day ;-)
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2021-06-02 03:15:55	DocMors	I wouldn't touch Perl with a barge pole anymore and havent for years.
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2021-06-02 03:16:48	epony	good for you, seems like only you care about your preferences
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2021-06-02 03:21:44	kosh	perl still gets some usage just like bsd still gets some usage and other languages still get some usage
2021-06-02 03:21:54	kosh	they are not major players anymore but they have their niche
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2021-06-02 03:24:09	kosh	the bsd have essentially 0% market share and they are not going to increase but they are still useful in places
2021-06-02 03:24:44	kosh	perl usage is very low and dropping but still used in places
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2021-06-02 03:26:07	epony	that is incorrect, and clueless
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2021-06-02 03:27:06	kosh	epony, why do you think that?
2021-06-02 03:27:17	epony	you'd be surprised to know how much the BSDs are used (and not being advertised)
2021-06-02 03:27:22	DocMors	nope kosh  is right there
2021-06-02 03:27:24	kosh	https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-bsd
2021-06-02 03:27:32	kosh	I checked a bunch of different sites
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2021-06-02 03:27:50	kosh	most find bsd at < 1% usage for servers and other devices
2021-06-02 03:28:20	kosh	https://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22deviceType%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Desktop%2Flaptop%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22platform%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22platformsDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222019-1
2021-06-02 03:28:20	kosh	1%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-10%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D
2021-06-02 03:28:29	kosh	hmm okay that url is too long and breaks
2021-06-02 03:28:32	epony	believe whatever information you want, that is not the reality ;-)
2021-06-02 03:28:39	kosh	but that has it at 0.01%
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2021-06-02 03:28:52	epony	that's wrong and also incorrect
2021-06-02 03:28:55	kosh	so what evidence do you have to the contrary?
2021-06-02 03:29:17	kosh	I know it is popular to just pick and choose the facts you want to believe in the world now but that is bullshit
2021-06-02 03:29:32	epony	your statements are false
2021-06-02 03:29:43	kosh	just because you want something to be true doesn't make it true
2021-06-02 03:29:45	DocMors	hey you can even become president of ameristan with that approach
2021-06-02 03:30:09	epony	I told you, your statements are incorrect, and they are not realistic.
2021-06-02 03:30:12	kosh	so what evidence do you have that bsd has usage beyond 15?
2021-06-02 03:30:17	kosh	1%?
2021-06-02 03:30:24	kosh	you have presented no evidence
2021-06-02 03:30:40	epony	I don't owe you any evidence for your baseless claims.
2021-06-02 03:30:43	kosh	https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjB1cCatvjwAhUb8uAKHbkvDd0QFjANegQIDBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnetmarketshare.com%2Foperating-system-market-share.aspx&usg=AOvVaw38LZkLEHg77KOU9fC5kR1-
2021-06-02 03:30:47	kosh	that is 0.01%
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2021-06-02 03:31:56	DocMors	epony you show up with some wild statement and expect people to buy it even though evidence to the contrary has been presented, how about fuck off
2021-06-02 03:31:56	epony	not your best day for URL linking either ;-)
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2021-06-02 03:32:03	kosh	DocMors, yeah and how well has that worked out?
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2021-06-02 03:32:21	DocMors	well he stuck to it for the full term :)
2021-06-02 03:32:32	kosh	and the damage that resulted?
2021-06-02 03:32:42	epony	why do you think someone shows up, and not just replied with a one line comment towards a false statement?
2021-06-02 03:32:55	epony	"you show up" what does this even mean
2021-06-02 03:33:13	DocMors	I'm not rating his skills as a poitician but just stated that based on flimsy ideas you can get people to buy in.
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2021-06-02 03:33:39	epony	people, you have to understand that your "opinion" is not a fact
2021-06-02 03:33:55	DocMors	yes epony  very true
2021-06-02 03:34:06	epony	that is all for now..
2021-06-02 03:34:16	kosh	epony, both of those sites are samples of actual servers based on data and they reveal how they obtain that data, that is not opinion
2021-06-02 03:34:17	DocMors	thanks
2021-06-02 03:34:52	DocMors	kosh I don't think he actually believes either in discussion or facts
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2021-06-02 03:35:01	kosh	yeah
2021-06-02 03:35:14	epony	I do not believe what kosh says or presents, as the credibility is 0%.
2021-06-02 03:36:11	epony	with a practice of approx 25 years.. I can not be surprised by cluelessness
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2021-06-02 03:36:19	DocMors	the ignore function was developed for cases ĺike you
2021-06-02 03:36:27	kosh	yes
2021-06-02 03:36:35	epony	yeah ;-) use it and stop spreading lies
2021-06-02 03:36:37	kosh	so many trolls
2021-06-02 03:36:55	DocMors	ignore epony
2021-06-02 03:36:57	kosh	and so many that can't see reality anymore, I really worry about things
2021-06-02 03:37:00	epony	I like how you describe your qualities and capabilities.
2021-06-02 03:37:01	kosh	oh I did that already
2021-06-02 03:37:44	kosh	just had to have discussions when there is no agreement on reality and that really seems to be a much more recent development
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2021-06-02 03:39:46	epony	well, given the large deployment of servers I have with the BSD systems over the years, I think I can outweigh the ratio of yours (the two of you "experts") by a factor of 100 at any comparison, so why would I care for your false "quotations from the noosphere"?
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2021-06-02 03:58:57	epony	and one more thing: the BSDs make a better system for laptops and desktop PCs alike, given that you know Unix, rather than GUIs (forget about "market share" publications for free software OS deployments, these count sales, marketing stats and version strings, all of which are unreliable and show 95-96% Windows PCs globally)
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2021-06-02 04:03:10	epony	for your "information"  https://www.freebsd.org/press/
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2021-06-02 04:04:19	epony	and this reading list  https://www.openbsd.org/events.html
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2021-06-02 04:15:33	epony	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Birth_of_FreeBSD "Today, FreeBSD is used by many IT companies such as IBM, Nokia, Juniper Networks, and NetApp to build their product.[16][17] Certain parts of Apple's Mac OS X operating system are based on FreeBSD.[18] The PlayStation 3 operating system also borrows certain components from FreeBSD,[7][8] while the PlayStation 4 operating system is derived from FreeBSD 9.[19] Netflix,[20] WhatsApp,[21] and
2021-06-02 04:15:34	epony	FlightAware[22] are also examples of big, successful and heavily network-oriented companies which are running FreeBSD."
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2021-06-02 04:20:31	catbeard	oh wow he's still talking
2021-06-02 04:20:37	epony	you know what OpenSSH is, right?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD#Uses
2021-06-02 04:21:05	catbeard	they're talking about you know, python on libera, i think there's also #openbsd and #freebsd there too
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2021-06-02 04:24:27	epony	catern, read backlog / scrollback if you have anything to add to the false claims above about Perl being dead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_5_version_history and the profoundly incompetent comments about market share of the BSD systems from your local trolls
2021-06-02 04:24:39	epony	catbeard ^
2021-06-02 04:24:52	fujisan	https://youtu.be/6ZdxiQoOBgs?t=223 << how can i make this with Python ?
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2021-06-02 04:26:24	doopy	hi does anyone know why i get this error?
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2021-06-02 04:26:26	doopy	    print("%5d\t\t%2s\t\t%15s\t\t%4d\t\t%5d\t\t%3d\t\t%4d\t\t%6d" % x, records[x]['state'], records[x]['city'], records[x]['year'], records[x]['month'], records[x]['day'], records[x]['hour'], records[x]['minute'])
2021-06-02 04:26:26	doopy	TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
2021-06-02 04:26:32	doopy	it seems like i have enough arguments
2021-06-02 04:26:51	doopy	not sure what im missing
2021-06-02 04:26:54	fujisan	doopy read backwards for bugtracking
2021-06-02 04:27:39	--	doopy is now known as glickfinger
2021-06-02 04:28:37	glickfinger	fujisan, i am reading backwards, i still count the same argumets
2021-06-02 04:28:41	glickfinger	so should be enough
2021-06-02 04:29:22	fujisan	i didnt say it would be fruitful just it increases the chances of catching bugs
2021-06-02 04:30:05	fujisan	maybe make it more readable via structure
2021-06-02 04:31:07	frrs	fujisan: is that you?
2021-06-02 04:31:13	fujisan	me
2021-06-02 04:31:18	fujisan	what do you mean?
2021-06-02 04:31:31	fujisan	it’s me from macosx
2021-06-02 04:31:40	fujisan	where i usually hang out
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2021-06-02 04:31:48	fujisan	i dunno your frame of reference
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2021-06-02 04:41:04	cek	Hi. Is there a way to list all ~/.local packages with `pip` for other python versions?
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2021-06-02 04:51:19	oxek	cek: try the official python channel instead, this one is inactive
2021-06-02 04:51:55	cek	libera choir?
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2021-06-02 04:53:19	oxek	don't know what that is
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2021-06-02 05:11:19	nedbat	cek: we are mostly at http://libera.chat
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2021-06-02 05:19:05	rcm888	The name asynchronous means that the client code never stops to wait for a particular client and that the
2021-06-02 05:19:06	rcm888	thread of control running the code is not synchronized, or made to wait in lockstep, with the conversation of any one
2021-06-02 05:19:06	rcm888	particular client.
2021-06-02 05:19:14	rcm888	??? what
2021-06-02 05:19:31	rcm888	this blabbering means anyway?
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2021-06-02 05:21:14	bjs	rcm888: hi, the people who usually answer your questions have mostly moved to #python on the irc.libera.chat network instead
2021-06-02 05:21:19	gcbirzan	rcm888: It's explaining the difference between synchronous and asynchronous. In async, you don't block your code while waiting for data, which is how sync works.
2021-06-02 05:22:23	bjs	rcm888: but yeah,  "asynchronous" means "don't wait"
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2021-06-02 05:23:07	bjs	rcm888: a synchronous conversation means you say a sentence and then sit there and wait for the person you're talking to to reply. an asnychronous one is like email, you send the message but then you go do other things rather than sitting about waiting for the reply.
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2021-06-02 05:29:18	rcm888	bjs: chapter is "Async Servers"
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2021-06-02 05:31:56	rcm888	bjs: client code never stops to wait for a particular client - may be server code?
2021-06-02 05:32:36	bjs	rcm888: yes,  the server behaves like the person sending emails
2021-06-02 05:32:48	bjs	rcm888: it sends messages to clients but it doesn't sit around waiting for the reply, it just moves on
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2021-06-02 05:35:36	gcbirzan	Sending is maybe a worse example than receiving, as you're more likely to block when receiving than sending
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2021-06-02 05:36:57	kosh	some of the stuff gets intresting like the async mpi stuff where you can create a block of memory to receive the data you expect and you get notified after the data is there
2021-06-02 05:37:00	kosh	really handy
2021-06-02 05:37:26	rcm888	bjs: I dont get it how does async gets called. Program gets interrupted, and control is given to async function?
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2021-06-02 05:37:30	gcbirzan	kosh: hey, we reinvented DMA :)
2021-06-02 05:37:53	bjs	rcm888: it's like email, it sends the message then goes away and does something else and every now and again can check for a reply
2021-06-02 05:38:07	bjs	rcm888: do you mean you don't understand how a particular library/technology works?
2021-06-02 05:38:07	kosh	gcbirzan, true but DMA is harder to deal with than MPI
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2021-06-02 05:38:31	rcm888	bjs: yes, the details of async invocation.
2021-06-02 05:38:54	bjs	rcm888: what is "async invokation" ?  the idea of "asynchronous" is very general and doesn't rely on any particular technology
2021-06-02 05:39:12	bjs	rcm888: Like I said, a server that works by sending emails would be asynchronous and not use any of these fancy libraries.
2021-06-02 05:39:22	bjs	rcm888: do you want to know how `async def` and `asyncio` work in Python?  is that your question?
2021-06-02 05:39:37	rcm888	bjs: and this too
2021-06-02 05:39:40	bjs	rcm888: "too"
2021-06-02 05:39:50	bjs	rcm888: I'm confused, what is the question you actually want an answer to?
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2021-06-02 05:41:06	rcm888	bjs: the question is - how asynchronous calls work, and how event driven networking works.
2021-06-02 05:41:44	bjs	rcm888: what do you mean by "asynchronous calls" though?
2021-06-02 05:42:16	bjs	rcm888: like I said, it's just like email.  The server will send() messages to clients, and then won't wait for the reply, it'll just move on to send()ing more messages to other clients.
2021-06-02 05:42:16	rcm888	bjs: if recv() is returned upon new data accepted, so - how IP stack is notified of new data?
2021-06-02 05:42:26	bjs	rcm888: then when a reply does come back,  it will get notified and handle it. That's an "event".
2021-06-02 05:42:49	bjs	rcm888: okay now you want to talk about a very specific particular function?  But there are many functions called "recv".
2021-06-02 05:43:13	bjs	rcm888: the recv() you normally use is synchronous,  it waits until the data is received and then returns it.
2021-06-02 05:43:20	rcm888	socket.recv()
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2021-06-02 05:43:41	bjs	rcm888: yes that is sychronous, it "blocks", it's waiting for the data.
2021-06-02 05:43:48	rcm888	bjs: yes, but how kernel or IP stack know that there is new data arrived?
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2021-06-02 05:44:19	rcm888	bjs: who pulls the trigger?
2021-06-02 05:44:21	bjs	rcm888: well, some bytes come in on a wire (or over wifi or whatever) into the computer, and this causes an interrupt and the OS will read the bytes
2021-06-02 05:44:32	bjs	rcm888: once enough bytes have been read, the OS will make recv() return them.
2021-06-02 05:46:06	rcm888	bjs: what does mean enough? who decides when it is enough?
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2021-06-02 05:46:39	bjs	rcm888: the OS does, eventually there'll be no more things coming down the wire or the memory it was using is now full "enough"
2021-06-02 05:47:02	bjs	rcm888: this is why sockets always come with a big warning for recv: you don't know how much will actually be received.
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2021-06-02 05:47:09	bjs	since the OS just decides to stop at some point and give you whatever it has
2021-06-02 05:47:30	rcm888	bjs: what if client sends 16 bytes to server with time-critical data - will it be "enough"
2021-06-02 05:47:37	rcm888	?
2021-06-02 05:48:21	rcm888	bjs: server does: s.recv(1024), but client sends only 16 bytes.
2021-06-02 05:49:07	bjs	rcm888: the server might read 1 byte, it might read 10 bytes, it might read all 16 bytes, it might read 37 bytes because two messages got squashed together but you only got 1/2 of the other message
2021-06-02 05:49:20	bjs	or it might timeout and not read anything at all!
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2021-06-02 05:51:45	rcm888	bjs: poll() supports handler registering? how OS knows what handler to call at which socket?
2021-06-02 05:52:05	bjs	rcm888: I am going to have to say that this is #python not #everythingaboutcomputersandnetworking :)
2021-06-02 05:52:21	bjs	rcm888: You should pick up a networking book or a systems book,  it should explain how the OS handles all of this
2021-06-02 05:52:27	bjs	it's a complicated story
2021-06-02 05:52:39	rcm888	bjs: obviously python OS syscalls wrapped into modules
2021-06-02 05:52:41	bjs	but essentially "The OS keeps track of everything like that" (see also: select)
2021-06-02 05:53:13	rcm888	bjs: Oh yes, I've picked up networking book and it tells me some blabbering...
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2021-06-02 05:53:33	bjs	rcm888: it's probably not "blabbering"
2021-06-02 05:53:42	bjs	but rather very carefully written because it's complicated
2021-06-02 05:53:45	bjs	and easy to get wrong
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2021-06-02 05:55:13	rcm888	bjs: no, I think authors didn't ever care about their language skills. Sometimes, very rare, authors write excellent texts, and sometimes there is complete disaster
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2021-06-02 05:55:46	bjs	rcm888: maybe you should read some other resources. It might be that you only understand it once you've read how multiple people try explain it
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2021-06-02 05:57:37	VaniasPy	Hello,i have a long json with many objects and i can't see some of them that i need (due to pagination issues i guess) how can i overcome that? is there another way to get my results?
2021-06-02 05:57:48	rcm888	bjs: I think that this is network chip that triggers the event first, it may even have and probably does - hw acceleration for IP stack.
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2021-06-02 05:58:07	nedbat	VaniasPy: hi, this channel has mostly moved to https://libera.chat
2021-06-02 05:58:25	bjs	rcm888: yes when a packet arrives there'll be a physical signal that is generated (an electrical charge sent down a particular wire that will make the CPU notice)
2021-06-02 05:58:45	bjs	rcm888: this is very much outside of #python and async now,  and you'll have to read a book that actually explains it well
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2021-06-02 05:59:21	rcm888	bjs: but for me it is not clear how does OS submits data to program asynchronously. Is there capability for IP stack to register handlers, or program must on it's own filter and handle data?
2021-06-02 06:00:04	bjs	rcm888: this is very complicated because you're talking as if "asynchronous" is a particular technology or tool or idea or library
2021-06-02 06:00:15	bjs	it's not, there are dozens of ways of doing things asynchronously
2021-06-02 06:00:30	bjs	rcm888: e.g. my server earlier that sends emails and checks for replies every now and again is a perfectly valid asynchronous server.
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2021-06-02 06:01:03	rcm888	bjs: select call blocks for receiving filtered data, but who does filtering? What if program doesn't blocks and just continue running, - how async functions will process data?
2021-06-02 06:01:07	bjs	rcm888: you can have asynchronous servers that use the synchronous network stack,  but has multiple threads.
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2021-06-02 06:01:39	bjs	rcm888: you can have asynchronous servers that use select() and poll() to check for data and the asynchronous send()
2021-06-02 06:01:59	bjs	rcm888: you can also have asychronous servers that use "async" technologies, like asyncio and `async def`
2021-06-02 06:02:13	bjs	rcm888: select is a syscall, so the OS is in charge of it
2021-06-02 06:02:58	bjs	rcm888: the OS manages all the open sockets and buffers and files and such, and so select just asks the OS to look to see what's there
2021-06-02 06:03:08	rcm888	bjs: the goal is to make latency as low as possible and profitable load of cpu is as high as possible, including multicore cpu.
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2021-06-02 06:11:07	rcm888	bjs: await is "blocking" program same way as select does?
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2021-06-02 06:12:39	bjs	rcm888: `await` blocks the current task.  Like doing a recv() in a thread
2021-06-02 06:12:52	bjs	other threads can still run,  and in asyncio land,  other tasks can still run
2021-06-02 06:13:42	rcm888	bjs: program can render 3d scene for example, and never be blocked at waiting for socket.recv() return with data. But when network event happens - control can be given to async function , for updating game data for example, and then control is returned back to program.
2021-06-02 06:14:15	bjs	rcm888: you seem to be confusing multiple technologies again
2021-06-02 06:14:27	bjs	when you say "async" do you just mean asynchronous or do you really mean `async/await`
2021-06-02 06:14:30	kosh	I would be surprised if that is how a game actually works
2021-06-02 06:14:42	bjs	async/await is one particular technology,  there are *many* other ways to get asynchronous execution
2021-06-02 06:14:52	kosh	since it has a deadline for delivering a frame
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2021-06-02 06:15:14	kosh	I would have expected it to check at set intervals and move on immediately
2021-06-02 06:16:03	bjs	rcm888: the most primitive way to get async is just to every now and again, check to see if there's data.  Instead of doing recv() and waiting for it,  every 10ms or whatever you ask "is there data?"
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2021-06-02 06:16:45	rcm888	bjs: kosh: I assume that there is only OS asynchronous or event-driven capabilities. And that the python's modules are built upon it.
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2021-06-02 06:17:28	kosh	I don't know how the python modules are built but people built async systems before there was OS support for it with threads
2021-06-02 06:17:42	bjs	rcm888: like I said earlier, there are many ways of getting asychronous work without those technologies
2021-06-02 06:17:58	kosh	we have ever done that in python for async disk io because cross platform disk io has long been problematic
2021-06-02 06:18:01	bjs	rcm888: you seem to be combining them all in your head into one big "asynchronous" technology
2021-06-02 06:18:21	bjs	but in reality the word "asynchronous" just means "without waiting" and there are dozens(!) of different ways to write programs that "dont wait"
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2021-06-02 06:18:35	kosh	bjs, you think there are only dozens? ;)
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2021-06-02 06:20:12	bjs	rcm888: `for client in list_of_clients: client.socket.send(b"PING\n")`  is asychronous for example.  You're not waiting for the response before you message the next client.
2021-06-02 06:20:26	rcm888	bjs: kosh: cpu has cores, threads, scheduler, interrupts. And program has sections of code, functions. - That means asynchronous programming can be achieved only with that, and none of the other.
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2021-06-02 06:21:04	bjs	Then when you want to wait for a response, you can use select() to wait for the first one to be ready OR you could create separate threads OR you can loop over clients receiving bits at a time OR you can use async/await OR you can use some fancy event-driven stuff
2021-06-02 06:21:09	kosh	even on a single core in dos you can do async stuff
2021-06-02 06:21:26	rcm888	bjs: it must be either interrupt, or scheduling, and nothing else is possible.
2021-06-02 06:21:45	bjs	rcm888: again you're thinking that "asynchronous" is a technology, it's not
2021-06-02 06:21:58	bjs	it's just a description of how a program behaves. You can write things that "dont wait" without any fancy technology
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2021-06-02 06:24:18	bjs	rcm888: like, the details of the network stack and the cpu cores and threads are all mostly irrelevant. You can write "asynchronous" code using almost any technology.
2021-06-02 06:24:45	bjs	Each of those things just give you a different tool you can use to achieve it.
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2021-06-02 06:25:06	rcm888	bjs: client.socket.send() is done in one time frame inside of the program, and in the other time frame in the kernel or IP stack. so there is no asynchronicity. Of course, there usually many cores in CPU, but still, someone should take care of the send() on the "other side"
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2021-06-02 06:25:50	rcm888	bjs: it might be network chip sitting on DMA channel
2021-06-02 06:25:54	bjs	rcm888: of course there is asynchronicity.  It's sending messages
2021-06-02 06:25:58	bjs	and not waiting for a reply
2021-06-02 06:26:10	bjs	my little loop is *obviously* an asynchronous program
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2021-06-02 06:26:28	rcm888	bjs: but what if reply comes while sending message?
2021-06-02 06:27:02	rcm888	bjs: there must be CPU interrupt, and calling event handler.
2021-06-02 06:27:10	bjs	rcm888: my program didn't _concurrently_ handle sending and receiving
2021-06-02 06:27:14	bjs	but it was still asynchronous
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2021-06-02 06:27:23	bjs	because it didn't wait for the reply before sending to others
2021-06-02 06:27:33	kosh	there are network cards that can accept data and place it in memory without need the cpu to handle it
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2021-06-02 06:29:39	rcm888	kosh: but handler still must be called, to process that data
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2021-06-02 06:31:52	bjs	rcm888: you seem to be thinking that events === asynchronous
2021-06-02 06:32:04	bjs	but you can have asynchronous code without making everything an event and making it all event-driven
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2021-06-02 06:33:24	bjs	rcm888: asynchronous is literally A-synchronous or without-waiting. All a program needs to be asynchronous is for it to "not wait".  My little program that send()s a bunch of messages out to a bunch of clients is asynchronous because it did not wait for a reply before sending the next message. It "did not wait", and therefore, was (at least partially) asynchronous.
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2021-06-02 06:37:18	gcbirzan	bjs: That's not correct, btw.
2021-06-02 06:37:27	gcbirzan	It's not about a reply, it's about blocking while sending/receiving.
2021-06-02 06:38:03	bjs	gcbirzan: that's just not right.  Because a program that uses threads for each client in the server would clearly be an asynchronous server
2021-06-02 06:38:12	bjs	even though each individual send and receive is blocking
2021-06-02 06:39:28	gcbirzan	The asynchronicity is considered at the level of sending/receiving, I guess.
2021-06-02 06:39:34	bjs	gcbirzan: but no it's not
2021-06-02 06:39:38	bjs	that's just very wrong
2021-06-02 06:39:42	gcbirzan	It's not, though.
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2021-06-02 06:39:50	bjs	Like I said,  threads are one of the oldest ways to program asynchronously
2021-06-02 06:40:01	bjs	and receiving is blocking. even select() is blocking
2021-06-02 06:40:08	bjs	`await` is blocking
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2021-06-02 06:40:23	gcbirzan	For example, if I'm just sending data on a socket, without bothering to select (and without O_NOBLOCK), this is not asynchronous, even though I'm not waiting for a reply.
2021-06-02 06:40:30	gcbirzan	At some point, it can block.
2021-06-02 06:40:45	gcbirzan	Conversely, if I just read from a socket without writing, that's not asynchronous.
2021-06-02 06:40:47	bjs	gcbirzan: asynchronicity in a program is not about whether individual operations can block
2021-06-02 06:42:14	gcbirzan	Well, I mean there are different meanings of the word.
2021-06-02 06:42:15	bjs	because inevitably *all* operations eventually decompose into blocking calls.  It's about whether or not the program synchronizes (orders wrt, aka waits for) other events in the system or not.  You can build large asynchronous programs out of threads
2021-06-02 06:42:34	bjs	gcbirzan: but your definition defines away asynchronous such that nothing is asynchronous since all function calls block until the function returns
2021-06-02 06:42:42	gcbirzan	For example, in telecommunications, asynchronous means lack of a clock.
2021-06-02 06:43:41	gcbirzan	bjs: Blocking here  means waiting for data to arrive. If you open with O_NOBLOCK, you'll never wait for data.
2021-06-02 06:44:16	bjs	gcbirzan: this definition is confusing and wrong and means threads, async and select are all blocking and synchronous because they all block the thread/flow of execution
2021-06-02 06:44:20	bjs	and that's just madness
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2021-06-02 06:52:40	gcbirzan	bjs: The exerpt he quoted refers to what I'm talking about. Using select() or friends to get a notification about when data is available/can be written.
2021-06-02 06:53:04	bjs	gcbirzan: yes i'm not sure what the point is you're trying to make
2021-06-02 06:53:15	bjs	select() certainly exists and is commonly used?
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2021-06-02 06:53:36	gcbirzan	That the asynchronicity he's talking about is different than what you're describing.
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2021-06-02 06:54:30	bjs	gcbirzan: rcm888 was also talking about async/await,  and earlier was talking about threads
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2021-06-02 06:55:35	bjs	but yes select was also mentioned,  and it's also a way to do things asynchronously
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2021-06-02 06:56:32	gcbirzan	Threads are kind of orthogonal to asynchronicity, but generally if you fork() or make a thread for each connection, that's the hallmark of a synchronous server :)
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2021-06-02 06:57:20	bjs	!?
2021-06-02 06:58:19	nedbat	gcbirzan: seems like you are talking about i/o async, and bjs is surprised because he is thinking of computational async
2021-06-02 06:58:33	bjs	nedbat: people often async == asynchronous
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2021-06-02 06:59:19	bjs	a synchronous server would presumably be one that accepts one connection at a time, serves them, and then accepts the next
2021-06-02 06:59:34	bjs	an asnychronous one would accept many at once and deal with each without synchronizing between them
2021-06-02 06:59:41	bjs	and there are a large number of ways of achieving the latter.
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2021-06-02 07:02:05	gcbirzan	bjs: True, but in my view (and I didn't know it was controversial), if you have a process for each connection and that process does things synchronously, I'd call that server synchronous.
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2021-06-02 07:03:19	bjs	gcbirzan: I mean,  per client a server always looks synchronous
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2021-06-02 07:05:00	bjs	because well, doing otherwise would be breaking causality and we'd get time travel paradoxes :)
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2021-06-02 07:05:18	bjs	so how can you tell the difference between a server that puts each client connection in a thread and one that puts each client connection in an async task?
2021-06-02 07:05:31	bjs	and why would you want to define them differently?  or would you call both synchronous?
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2021-06-02 07:06:20	bjs	either your definition means these two servers which are observationally exactly the same with precisely the same synchronisation would have... different synchronicity?
2021-06-02 07:06:28	bjs	or you'd have to say the async version was... synchronous
2021-06-02 07:07:12	gcbirzan	bjs: If you have two pieces of different code that return the same result, in the same time, they're observationally exactly the same with. Are they the same?
2021-06-02 07:07:24	gcbirzan	s/ with//
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2021-06-02 07:08:17	bjs	gcbirzan: if it's impossible to tell without looking inside then yes,  it'd be silly to define behavioural things like blocking/synchronisation differently for the two programs.
2021-06-02 07:08:27	gcbirzan	bjs: Also, there is a difference, two processes can do two things at the same time, whereas using async tasks you cannot.
2021-06-02 07:08:41	bjs	It'd be like calling one "fast" and one "slow" because one used C and one used Python, even if they took the same time to do the job ...
2021-06-02 07:08:59	bjs	gcbirzan: I mean,  two async tasks can be receiving and sending and all that at the same time
2021-06-02 07:10:52	gcbirzan	The data might be made available from the kernel at the same time, but you definitely cannot read/write at the same time. I'll grant you, for most things, the difference here is mostly academic, but if you actually do work other than reading/writing, you can tell the difference from the outside.
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2021-06-02 07:13:04	bjs	gcbirzan: uh you can definitely write at the same time and read at the same time.  And yes the the whole point is that the entire program is the important thing
2021-06-02 07:13:10	bjs	at least my point
2021-06-02 07:13:29	bjs	your definition completely ignores the synchronization the program is doing when you define its synchronicity
2021-06-02 07:14:40	bjs	I mean, you can do that but what's the point of your definition of synchronicity if it it (1) can't tell you anything about how the program behaves and (2) is unrelated to the sychronization the program is doing
2021-06-02 07:15:09	bjs	it'd be like me having my own definition of speed which told you nothing about how fast the program went and didn't depend on the performance at all
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2021-06-02 07:16:16	bjs	"yes that program is 'fast' because it called baz with O_FAST not O_SLOW"  "Yes I know it takes longer to finish, but it's 'fast' you see, it's all about those O_FAST arguments"
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2021-06-02 07:21:38	kosh	gcbirzan, although that is kind of a python thing, with c++/rust etc you could process async tasks simultaneously
2021-06-02 07:21:51	gcbirzan	Yeah, I was talking about python in particular.
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2021-06-02 07:22:01	bjs	kosh: yeah, woo,  maybe eventually we'll be able to do that too
2021-06-02 07:22:04	bjs	in like 20 years :P
2021-06-02 07:22:15	kosh	I wonder about python a lot
2021-06-02 07:22:29	gcbirzan	bjs: I can see your point, but I think this definition is not how it's used, generally.
2021-06-02 07:22:30	kosh	I don't like julia but I can see another language along that direction replacing python
2021-06-02 07:22:59	bjs	gcbirzan: you're free to have your own definition of sychronicity,  but I will say your definition ignores what the program is doing as a whole and doesn't depend on the synchronization in the program
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2021-06-02 07:23:12	bjs	and that's just a weird way to define synchronicity of a whole program
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2021-06-02 07:24:08	bjs	Like, when deciding what the synchronicity is of a server you ignore the fact it's a server, ignore what the server is doing, don't look at any of the synchronization the server does ... it's just very odd to me
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2021-06-02 07:24:46	kosh	for a long time we did async IO using threads so the main execution could keep going while IO was running
2021-06-02 07:24:49	kosh	and that is async
2021-06-02 07:24:57	kosh	so one thread per connection should also be async
2021-06-02 07:24:59	bjs	kosh: I mean for a long time^tm there was only threads
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2021-06-02 07:25:08	kosh	yes
2021-06-02 07:25:09	bjs	and for a time before that, there was only hand-coded not-threads
2021-06-02 07:25:13	bjs	:P
2021-06-02 07:25:33	kosh	things like those green threads that where a big deal for a while
2021-06-02 07:25:33	bjs	or even today, if you do real-time systems I guess
2021-06-02 07:25:46	bjs	kosh: I can see why,  Java people loved them ~10 years ago
2021-06-02 07:25:55	bjs	and then got bored, and now async/await is popular
2021-06-02 07:26:00	bjs	which is the same idea kinda
2021-06-02 07:26:19	bjs	the same ideas, they just go round in circles
2021-06-02 07:26:25	kosh	in c++ I would mostly see people just create a threadpool and dispatch work
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2021-06-02 07:26:36	kosh	MUCH faster
2021-06-02 07:26:37	bjs	kosh: and tbh, that's a perfectly valid approach.
2021-06-02 07:26:57	gcbirzan	kosh: But the threads themselves blocked, so they were synchronous.
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2021-06-02 07:27:10	bjs	kosh: the hate threads get, i guess is good because of how easy it is to get them wrong,  but perhaps we scare people away from powerful tools too much
2021-06-02 07:27:12	gcbirzan	bjs: And, btw, I started from this sentence: 13:33 < bjs> rcm888: asynchronous is literally A-synchronous or without-waiting. All a program needs to be asynchronous is for it to "not wait".  My little program that send()s a bunch of messages out to a bunch of clients is asynchronous because it did not wait for a reply before sending the next message. It "did not wait", and therefore, was (at least
2021-06-02 07:27:18	gcbirzan	partially) asynchronous.
2021-06-02 07:27:22	kosh	gcbirzan, each thread may be sync but the program is async
2021-06-02 07:27:22	gcbirzan	or, well, message.
2021-06-02 07:27:42	gcbirzan	And I said that replies have nothing to do with synchronicity
2021-06-02 07:27:57	kosh	bjs, if you want to push a computer to its absolute limit you pretty much need to use threads
2021-06-02 07:28:13	bjs	kosh: right,  a program is composed of smaller programs. the smaller programs may be well-synchronized (synchronous) but the bigger program as a whole may be asynchronous
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2021-06-02 07:28:20	kosh	bjs, in pure python no matter what you do you can't push a cpu to even 1% of its capacity
2021-06-02 07:28:24	bjs	then that bigger program is embedded in an even bigger one that is synchronous :P
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2021-06-02 07:28:31	bjs	kosh: Python sometimes makes me sad
2021-06-02 07:28:51	kosh	even in c++ pushing beyond about 5% or so is hard
2021-06-02 07:29:01	kosh	cpus have FAR more power than we tap into
2021-06-02 07:29:05	bjs	kosh: pfft I ran gcc once
2021-06-02 07:29:10	bjs	it took like 90% of my cpu for a while
2021-06-02 07:29:13	bjs	:D
2021-06-02 07:29:20	kosh	I remember reading a study once from intel that even if the cpu was infinitely fast most programs would not really run faster
2021-06-02 07:29:28	kosh	sorry no
2021-06-02 07:29:32	kosh	your cpu was busy
2021-06-02 07:29:38	kosh	that is not the same as executing to its capacity
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2021-06-02 07:30:16	kosh	if I have you carry m&m one by one across a field you will be busy but not even close to using your capacity
2021-06-02 07:30:17	bjs	kosh: yes, modern CPUs are really designed for lots of different programs running at once to fill the pipe
2021-06-02 07:30:42	bjs	I blame our OSes for being bad at efficiently doing so
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2021-06-02 07:30:55	kosh	not much the OS can do
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2021-06-02 07:31:48	bjs	kosh: the OS could burn some of them cycles predicting that you're about to open an app and pre-load it :)
2021-06-02 07:32:05	kosh	that doesn't solve the problem
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2021-06-02 07:32:14	kosh	the CPU is often saturated waiting for data
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2021-06-02 07:32:28	kosh	you can't have it do more because while the core is idle it can't get enough data to run other stuff
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2021-06-02 07:33:23	gcbirzan	Have you seen the new ADM level 3 cache stuff?
2021-06-02 07:33:28	kosh	no
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2021-06-02 07:33:59	bjs	kosh: it's because our CPUs are (ironically) *too* synchronous
2021-06-02 07:34:07	gcbirzan	https://www.anandtech.com/show/16725/amd-demonstrates-stacked-vcache-technology-2-tbsec-for-15-gaming
2021-06-02 07:34:12	bjs	if they could ditch the idea of having to execute sequentially ...
2021-06-02 07:34:24	kosh	they do a lot of stuff out of order
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2021-06-02 07:34:32	gcbirzan	latency is obviously higher than on chip, but that bandwidth
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2021-06-02 07:34:38	bjs	kosh: out-of-order but still with cleanup
2021-06-02 07:34:56	kosh	but how else do you handle that you read the next item in an array which gives you a pyobject* which you then have to load, which gives you more pyobject* to load
2021-06-02 07:35:00	bjs	kosh: and very deeply and inherently sequential
2021-06-02 07:35:17	bjs	kosh: I mean,  we'd have to have very clever compilers or give up our nice sequential programming languages
2021-06-02 07:35:18	kosh	the calculation density is REALLY poor
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2021-06-02 07:35:53	kosh	c++ with good compilers get you some of the way there, which is why even a bad c++ program is 100x to 1000x a python program in speed
2021-06-02 07:36:09	kosh	however the cost is it is FAR harder to program in
2021-06-02 07:36:21	bjs	kosh: yeah but c/c++ cheat by having a huge team of excellent engineers working on their compilers for decades and decades and decades and lots of support
2021-06-02 07:36:29	bjs	Python is relatively small compared to that
2021-06-02 07:36:29	kosh	julia solves some level of that by only putting in language structures that a compiler can solve
2021-06-02 07:36:52	kosh	c and c++ prove that with enough thrust a brick can fly quite nicely
2021-06-02 07:36:55	bjs	and can influence the OS and CPU manufacturers to make their language go faster too
2021-06-02 07:37:04	bjs	Python is just a small fish today
2021-06-02 07:37:20	kosh	not sure what OS can do to make python faster
2021-06-02 07:37:31	kosh	if you have much bigger caches it would help
2021-06-02 07:37:41	kosh	but that same thing would help c++ even more
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2021-06-02 07:38:02	kosh	we did some optimizations on a program and got it small enough to fit in the l3 cache on a cpu quite nicely
2021-06-02 07:38:07	kosh	the speedup was impressive
2021-06-02 07:38:16	bjs	kosh: the coupling between OS developers,  CPU architects and Compiler engineers (for C/C++ at least) are very close.  I can't even imagine what such a collaboration could do for Python
2021-06-02 07:38:27	bjs	it's just a question of engineering effort
2021-06-02 07:38:36	kosh	I don't agree on that with python
2021-06-02 07:38:55	kosh	I don't think any level of effort would make it remotely as fast, you would have to change the language
2021-06-02 07:39:10	kosh	the GIL is really deeply ingrained and protects a lot of programs
2021-06-02 07:39:18	bjs	kosh: I mean,  that's what compiler vendors do all the time.  I mean the thing that gcc accepts is barely recognisable as C :P
2021-06-02 07:39:49	bjs	but yeah, Python would be a different language (at least, it'd gain some UB probably ...)
2021-06-02 07:40:01	kosh	you can make it faster
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2021-06-02 07:40:06	kosh	probably a lot faster
2021-06-02 07:40:13	bjs	kosh: the GIL is very unfortunate. But some global static analysis could discharge the GIL requirement for *most* locations
2021-06-02 07:40:37	kosh	if you could put restrictions on functions you could make it even faster
2021-06-02 07:41:06	bjs	kosh: anyway,  suffice to say I think there's a *lot* of room for Python to get performance increase here.  It's more a question of engineering effort than anything else.
2021-06-02 07:41:23	kosh	for instance in c++ we made a program REALLY fast but it used an array shared between all the threads, they all write into the same array but at different positions and it is calculated so there is no false-sharing
2021-06-02 07:41:43	kosh	that is really hard for an analyzer to reason about
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2021-06-02 07:41:55	kosh	I wonder if that is even possible with rust
2021-06-02 07:42:05	kosh	have 128 cores working on one array at the same time
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2021-06-02 07:47:34	rcm888	with or without threads - threads are only upscale performance in multicore cpu
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2021-06-02 07:48:33	rcm888	event handler and thread - they both have context switch. or not?
2021-06-02 07:48:54	rcm888	kosh bjs gcbirzan
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2021-06-02 07:49:45	bjs	rcm888: threads are good even on single-core machines.  People have been programming with threads long before we had multicore machines
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2021-06-02 07:51:03	bjs	rcm888: I guess it depends on exactly how the framework that drives the events operates.  Some events can be just "asynchronous exceptions" and there's not any context-switching to speak of, they just interrupt the current flow.  Something like signals in Python just adds an extra call frame
2021-06-02 07:51:14	bjs	I'm sure some things do a real "context switch" with all the full complexity
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2021-06-02 07:52:26	rcm888	bjs: for example you can insert count checker everywhere in the code, to count how many cycles of cpu have passed. and finish calculation, then switch to another. But you'll have to save registers or data anyway, in order to return to previous task.
2021-06-02 07:52:50	bjs	rcm888: well like I said, one kind of event is an interrupt. Like how CPUs handle it.
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2021-06-02 07:53:18	rcm888	so context switch is the same but hw accelerated. what is worse? I think it depends on how it affects the cache.
2021-06-02 07:53:18	bjs	They won't save anything,  they'll just start executing the handler. The handler can save registers if it wants to (and can return later, if it wants to)
2021-06-02 07:53:59	bjs	rcm888: but something like,  a Python signal handler does something like a function call, it saves some stack space off, then calls the handler, then maybe returns later and continues
2021-06-02 07:54:44	bjs	but then I imagine you could have big event-driven frameworks that treat each thing as its own thing and does a proper "context switch" between them.  When people say "context switch" they often think of between threads/processes in an OS
2021-06-02 07:55:10	bjs	and that may or may not be happening in something that uses "events" (the lighterweight it is, the less of that kind of thing will be happening)
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2021-06-02 07:55:42	bjs	e.g. async/await and asyncio is very lightweight and so very little is happening on the switch. But switching from one process to another is very expensive.  But both are a kind of "context switch"
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2021-06-02 07:58:32	bjs	rcm888: the hardware doesn't know anything about "context switch". That's a purely software thing.  As far as the hardware is concerned it's just executing one (very long) program non-stop.
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2021-06-02 07:58:55	bjs	the OS defines a "context switch" to make it look like it's executing many smaller programs a bit at a time,  but the OS does a lot of work when it switches from one to the other.
2021-06-02 07:59:09	bjs	Something like async/await can also switch between many little things, but here the OS doesn't even know and it's very cheap.
2021-06-02 07:59:11	bjs	Does that make sense?
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2021-06-02 08:00:54	rcm888	bjs: context switch is cpu accelerated
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2021-06-02 08:01:05	bjs	rcm888: I don't know what that means
2021-06-02 08:01:49	rcm888	bjs: cpu has instructions for that. to whitch at once, saving thread state to the dedicated fields
2021-06-02 08:01:57	rcm888	*switch
2021-06-02 08:02:54	rcm888	bjs: some cpus have memory-mapped registers, so they dont need to save them
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2021-06-02 08:03:22	Baumfaust	hi
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2021-06-02 08:04:17	Baumfaust	can someone tell me how i can access the value name? {'updated_at': b'1622633043072', 'data': b"{'0x3dF48cdC5B1320e259d63DFef30b6f5582f6345b': {'name': 'HEXAGON', 'symbol': 'HEX'
2021-06-02 08:04:57	Baumfaust	i tried it like this:  ['data']['0x3dF48cdC5B1320e259d63DFef30b6f5582f6345b']
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2021-06-02 08:05:34	gcbirzan	data is a bytes object, you'll need to parse it.
2021-06-02 08:05:55	gcbirzan	data = json.loads(foo['data'].decode('utf-8'))
2021-06-02 08:06:05	gcbirzan	Oh, that's not json
2021-06-02 08:06:26	rcm888	bjs: of course if python uses threads of cpu
2021-06-02 08:07:01	Baumfaust	i encoded ihr before: maybe that was wrong
2021-06-02 08:07:02	Baumfaust	mydict = {k: str(v).encode("utf-8") for k,v in all_tokens.items()}
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2021-06-02 08:07:50	gcbirzan	Baumfaust: If you want to serialise this to disk or whatever, use json.
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2021-06-02 08:08:16	kosh	Baumfaust, the channel has moved to libera.chat   https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-02 08:08:28	kosh	Baumfaust, there are just a few of us here chatting about other things and directing people over there
2021-06-02 08:08:55	Baumfaust	no i do not want this, I just used an api to load the value of some tokens
2021-06-02 08:09:14	Baumfaust	but if i dont encode it i get the error: UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\U0001f64f' in position 1199: character maps to <undefined>   when printing
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2021-06-02 08:13:08	gcbirzan	That's some windows encoding issue, I'm not sure how to fix it, except I think it should work from 3.6 onwards.
2021-06-02 08:13:36	gcbirzan	But, either way, you should encode only when printing, not before.
2021-06-02 08:14:21	rcm888	blocking and nonblocking calls differ only by the place where program continues. if call doesn't block program goes further, but it cant to B before A. so amount of action it can do for specific data domain is very limited.
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2021-06-02 08:16:57	rcm888	inquiring actions and responding to them is not necessarily done one right after another.
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2021-06-02 08:19:54	bjs	rcm888: well blocking and non-blocking usually continue in the same place. it's just *when* they continue
2021-06-02 08:19:57	rcm888	inquiring action means some event should be triggered from outside the program. and thus things can be done in single thread. but again - handler might have blocking calls, so this is question of structure of the data for all tasks.
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2021-06-02 08:20:09	bjs	a non-blocking recv() for example will just return immediately with whatever data it has, it won't wait around for more
2021-06-02 08:20:16	rajkosto	how do i repeat an item in an array definition ?
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2021-06-02 08:20:42	rcm888	bjs: if one could have syntax like this: s.recv(64, notify=handler)
2021-06-02 08:20:52	kosh	rajkosto, the channel has moved to libera.chat   https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-02 08:21:01	Baumfaust	gcbirzan, works now, thanks
2021-06-02 08:21:15	bjs	rcm888: yes you could do that, that'd be another different way (a kind of callback approach)
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2021-06-02 08:21:47	rcm888	bjs: that means recv() continues at 'handler'
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2021-06-02 08:22:21	bjs	rcm888: sure there are lots of ways of doing this.  I don't know of any library/framework that chooses an API like what you describe
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2021-06-02 08:23:19	rcm888	bjs: blocking calls are same thing, but them continue right after. in both cases there are delay.
2021-06-02 08:23:38	rcm888	and threading implies
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2021-06-02 08:27:12	Baumfaust	now i have a new stupid problem my keys of the dict are like this: AbCDeF  but my search string to find the key looks like "abcdef"
2021-06-02 08:27:54	Baumfaust	should i lower all keys in the dict or is there a better way to find?
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2021-06-02 08:37:44	hiyosilver	Hi, i have problems executing os.system(list) output tell me:  os.system(list) AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'system' from last lines of this script: https://dpaste.org/Z53G any help please?
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2021-06-02 08:38:23	habnabit_	hiyosilver, hi! we've moved to libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-02 08:38:38	habnabit_	Baumfaust, you too ^
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2021-06-02 08:50:10	hiyosilver	How use something concatenate in os.system like: os.system('rsync -avrz' + ' ' + x + ' ' + 'root@' + i + ':' + iii)
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2021-06-02 08:51:19	habnabit_	hiyosilver, there's more people answering questions on irc.libera.chat #python
2021-06-02 08:51:51	hiyosilver	Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
2021-06-02 08:52:05	habnabit_	hiyosilver, sure. /msg nickserv help register
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2021-06-02 09:07:07	dob1	sys.exit() doesn't terminate my script immediately?
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2021-06-02 09:07:32	habnabit_	dob1, it raises an exception, which should terminate it yes. also, we've moved to libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-06-02 09:08:10	dob1	ok I will ask there, it doesn't seems to terminate my script
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2021-06-02 09:49:43	ammar2	epony: sorry that the only language you know is a dead one, must be really hard for you
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2021-06-02 11:43:37	ov3rmind	if any like me is ever learning and want collaborate with a project i started, the goal is an virtual teacher, with GUI and espeak the studdies/lessons trying help visually impaired, the project already have 40 lessons/studdies and a small gui interface builded in debian, and as running fine. i known there is a lot to improve http://www.codeberg.org/Linux77/instVirt/
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2021-06-02 12:25:15	alch3mist	hi all, Can someone explain what .groups attribute does? I'm trying to read up on it but not sure if I get it. I have a variable that's grouping a dataframe like this: x =df.groupby([l1,l2]).groups
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2021-06-02 12:25:38	nedbat	alch3mist: we have mostly moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-02 12:25:59	alch3mist	nedbat, thanks, let me check that channel too
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2021-06-02 12:26:32	mike18	hi how can i convert numpy.float64 which is infinity to 0.0?
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2021-06-02 12:27:13	mike18	looking nan_to_num - requires an array
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2021-06-02 12:27:40	nedbat	mike18: we have mostly moved to https://libera.chat
2021-06-02 12:27:47	mike18	ok
2021-06-02 12:28:06	mike18	isnt it a mirror from libra?
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2021-06-02 12:29:49	oxek	no
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2021-06-02 12:34:22	Mattiaslndstrm	I recently did a code test that asked me to find the longest range of days where the temperatures where within 5 of each other. I solved it by generating all the combinations of length two: ((day1, temp1), (day2, temp2)), then, for combinations where the difference of the temperature where less then 5 degrees I generated a list of temperatures, and if the difference between the max and min in that list where <= 5 and the
2021-06-02 12:34:22	Mattiaslndstrm	 number of days where longer I added it to a variable. This is obviously an extremely inefficient solution. What would be a better solution?
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2021-06-02 12:35:23	nedbat	Mattiaslndstrm: we have mostly moved to http://libera.chat
2021-06-02 12:36:20	Mattiaslndstrm	Oh, thank you nedbat.
2021-06-02 12:36:20	nedbat	mike18, alch3mist, ov3rmind: to help us with the transition, it would be great to part from here.
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2021-06-02 12:37:29	alch3mist	nedbat, just moved there, thanks for the help
2021-06-02 12:38:01	mike18	hi how can i convert numpy.float64 which is infinity to 0.0? nan_to_num .... can i get a return value from nan_to_num so i can call val = np.float64(inf) print(np.nan_to_num(val)) ?
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2021-06-02 12:57:06	ov3rmind	nedbat, grateful, i work to it
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2021-06-02 13:53:50	Guest48442	How do I get all "leaf keys" given a "key" starting point from a dictionary? For example in this dictionary structure, how can I get ['split1a', 'split1a1a', 'split1b'] as a return by for example inputting dict['split1']? https://paste.debian.net/1199784/
2021-06-02 13:54:51	Guest48442	Or for example just entering "dict", then it would return all keys at the very bottom, i.e. ['split1a', 'split1a1a', 'split1b', 'split2a, 'split2b, 'split3b']
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2021-06-02 14:01:00	Guesto	Hey guys, is it possible to define multiple return values like this: def myFunction() -> int: List[str]:
2021-06-02 14:01:32	SnoopJ	Guesto, what does "multiple return values" mean to you? It's not clear what that annotation would mean
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2021-06-02 14:02:41	Guesto	Well, I want to return an error flag in case something went wrong and the result at the same time, thus 2 "values"
2021-06-02 14:02:58	SnoopJ	a tuple?
2021-06-02 14:03:01	Wulf	mike18, Guest48442, SnoopJ: Try asking on https://libera.chat/. Most users moved there days ago.
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2021-06-02 14:03:07	SnoopJ	Wulf, I am aware
2021-06-02 14:03:19	Guest48442	Just use Union
2021-06-02 14:03:23	Wulf	Guesto: ^
2021-06-02 14:03:31	Wulf	SnoopJ: yep, sorry :)
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2021-06-02 14:04:10	Guest48442	Why did everyone move?
2021-06-02 14:04:16	Guesto	hm why do I need to encapsulate it in a tuple? I thought things like "return 2, "hi", None "  are valid concepts in python.
2021-06-02 14:04:42	Wulf	Guest48442: because they disagree with freenode's new management
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2021-06-02 14:05:39	SnoopJ	Guesto, `return x, y` is the same thing as `return (x, y)`, they both return a tuple. In that case, annotate `Tuple[int, List[str]]` (or you can use `tuple[int, list[str]]` in 3.9+)
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2021-06-02 14:06:14	JAA	Guesto: What exactly are your expected return values? A list if everything's fine, and an int if there is an error? Or do you always want to return a status (int) and data (list)?
2021-06-02 14:06:25	JAA	In the former case, use a Union. In the latter, return a tuple as SnoopJ just said.
2021-06-02 14:06:40	Guesto	Right. Got it. Thanks a lot.
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2021-06-02 14:07:02	Guesto	JAA, I am actually not sure yet. Is there a best practise?
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2021-06-02 14:08:02	SnoopJ	I would prefer not to use an "error flag" at all, and raise an exception when there's an error
2021-06-02 14:09:17	JAA	++
2021-06-02 14:09:26	JAA	Oh sorry, this is Python. +=1 :-)
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2021-06-02 14:09:59	JAA	And if you want to return partial data in case of an error, I'd include that in an attribute on the exception.
2021-06-02 14:10:33	Guesto	Well, I am parsing a file and I am splitting the different parsing-parts into multiple functions. I just want to pass back if there was a problem parsing a line.
2021-06-02 14:10:57	SnoopJ	I agree that the partial result could live on the exception
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2021-06-02 14:11:15	SnoopJ	a tuple here isn't verboten, to be clear
2021-06-02 14:12:27	Guesto	The exception thing is slightly beyond me but I'll try the tuple version.
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2021-06-02 14:21:38	SnoopJ	clarification: you are already returning a tuple (I think?), and Tuple[...] is how you annotate that
2021-06-02 14:22:27	Guesto	Well, I am just about to rewrite everything since everything is such a mess with duplicated code.
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2021-06-02 14:26:10	Guesto	Oh yeah, this is actually also something I probably should've asked: Is there a good module for parsing files? I have strings like "Tray ID {:d} (Slot {:d}), Position {:d}" which I need to extract the values from. Currently, I am using the module "parse" for it, but I saw that there is also a "scanf" module implemented which is copying the C-scanf function.
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2021-06-02 14:27:06	habnabit_	Guesto, it's much more active on libera.chat
2021-06-02 14:27:38	Guesto	Right I will check it out at some point :)
2021-06-02 14:28:01	habnabit_	Guesto, it's pretty easy to do it now.. do you need help with the irc part?
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2021-06-02 14:31:06	Guesto	I will have a look later
2021-06-02 14:31:36	habnabit_	Guesto, i point it out because it'll make receiving help much more likely :)
2021-06-02 14:32:29	Guesto	Yeah sure. I will give it a try. Thanks :)
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2021-06-02 14:38:28	JAA	Guesto: https://pypi.org/project/parse/ seems to do exactly that.
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2021-06-02 17:11:23	Tas-sos	The chanell was moved to lebera chat ?
2021-06-02 17:12:16	<--	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-02 17:15:30	nedbat	Tas-sos: yes, we are on libera.chat
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2021-06-02 17:43:24	Tas-sos	nedbat: Thank you!
2021-06-02 17:44:04	Tas-sos	Also the  #python-infra  #distutils  and  #pypa channels ?
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2021-06-02 17:44:20	Tas-sos	all python channels ?
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2021-06-02 17:46:48	SnoopJ	#python-infra and #pypa have counterparts on Libera, #distutils does not (Libera has a channel listing bot, /msg alis help there for more info)
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2021-06-02 17:50:30	atrigent	a
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2021-06-02 17:52:03	sgt_chuckles	so is this channel useless now?
2021-06-02 17:52:32	SnoopJ	sgt_chuckles, it is much less active
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2021-06-02 17:55:03	sgt_chuckles	How is the new freenode staff disruptive to productive communities?
2021-06-02 17:55:08	sgt_chuckles	Like, in what way?
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2021-06-02 17:56:04	KirkMcDonald	Well there was that time they seized and shut down about 700 channels.
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2021-06-02 17:57:03	sgt_chuckles	for what? On a whim?
2021-06-02 17:57:14	SnoopJ	For mentioning Libera in their /topic
2021-06-02 17:57:17	KirkMcDonald	https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kline/106299403921451814
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2021-06-02 18:10:33	sgt_chuckles	wonder why everyone on here hasn't migrated Libera.Chat
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2021-06-02 18:21:37	ChrisWarrick	sgt_chuckles: dead bouncers, volunteers directing people to libera
2021-06-02 18:21:56	sgt_chuckles	wow
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2021-06-02 18:28:36	nedbat	sgt_chuckles: also, people hanging out here to talk about the transition :)
2021-06-02 18:29:48	nedbat	Tas-sos, sgt_chuckles: if you don't mind parting, we're looking forward to this channel shrinking further
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2021-06-02 18:30:48	sgt_chuckles	i mean, it is kinda dead here compared to the new channel
2021-06-02 18:30:57	sgt_chuckles	so i don't mind. just curious about all this.
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2021-06-02 20:25:50	Jenkem	is Sublime text a good editor for writing python? im completely new to it and installed the python package for the first time earlier
2021-06-02 20:26:00	Jenkem	ive heard of PyCharm and VS code as altenratives
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2021-06-02 20:27:03	bambanx	vscode is my choise for code
2021-06-02 20:27:16	nedbat	Jenkem: any of these will be good for Python.  VS Code is probably the newest favorite
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2021-06-02 20:27:37	nedbat	Jenkem, bambanx: btw, we have moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-02 20:58:52	jacklong	how is the hash function produced to the programming world
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2021-06-02 23:41:34	gjgf	does python have something like ?.
2021-06-02 23:42:00	gjgf	like a?.b
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2021-06-02 23:49:29	Wulf	no.
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2021-06-02 23:50:52	rindolf	gjgf: what is "?." and in whch language?
2021-06-02 23:51:04	Wulf	rindolf: None-aware operator
2021-06-02 23:51:41	rindolf	Wulf: ah.
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2021-06-03 01:03:50	ThanatosJ	Hello everyone
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2021-06-03 01:05:35	Tas-sos	 /win 38
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2021-06-03 02:31:05	Angs	when I use argparse module https://pastebin.com/XGt7kE1U when I type ./script.py -h it shows the help options that starts from "usage: script.py [-h] [-v] ..." can I print the version of the script at the beginning of the help message?
2021-06-03 02:31:45	Tashtari	Angs: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-03 02:34:34	Angs	Tashtari, thanks I will connect there as well.
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2021-06-03 03:17:14	Jonno_FTW	in sqla, how do I filter by a related field?
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2021-06-03 03:18:48	Jonno_FTW	I mean a field in another table that has a foreign key. to the first table, ie, eg. i have a table of children, and I want those children with a specific parent by parent_id
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2021-06-03 03:36:23	Jonno_FTW	scrap that question actually
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2021-06-03 03:57:29	raxor2k	any good machine learning libraries to recommend ?
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2021-06-03 04:03:09	Shiva24	Hi  can one help for a  good music libraries in python
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2021-06-03 04:10:37	echinos	I'm not gonna know an answer.. but do you mean for playing music files, or creating music, or...?
2021-06-03 04:11:13	Shiva24	Hi Echinos , for Creating music
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2021-06-03 04:27:14	Shiva24	Hi  can one help for a  good music libraries in python
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2021-06-03 04:29:02	oxek	Shiva24: this channel is inactive
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2021-06-03 04:30:38	nedbat	Shiva24: we are at https://libera.chat now
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2021-06-03 04:35:40	raxor2k	oxek: most of the people here are americans, they are all still asleep :p
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2021-06-03 04:45:45	kosh	raxor2k, the channel moved to libera.chat, it really is pretty much inactive now at any time of day except for directing people to move over
2021-06-03 04:46:45	nedbat	Jonno_FTW, raxor2k, echinos: we're trying to shrink this channel, if you don't mind parting from it.
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2021-06-03 04:48:38	oxek	wanna shrink it? This is how you do it:
2021-06-03 04:48:41	raxor2k	kosh: where is this libera.chat?
2021-06-03 04:48:53	oxek	/cs CLEAR #python USERS We moved to libera.chat, see you there!
2021-06-03 04:49:35	oxek	shrinkage guaranteed™
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2021-06-03 04:50:40	kosh	https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-03 04:51:07	nedbat	oxek: yes, thank you
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2021-06-03 05:57:21	eyepeetee	...did i over complicate the removal of lines from a file by index? https://pastebin.com/7damhgCS
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2021-06-03 05:59:00	nedbat	eyepeetee: we are on https://libera.chat now
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2021-06-03 05:59:44	eyepeetee	oh whups
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2021-06-03 06:52:33	raxor2k	so where do i access this libera.chat ?
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2021-06-03 06:58:58	kixx	info is on their website
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2021-06-03 07:08:49	raxor2k	but why move away from this channel? i used to love it..
2021-06-03 07:08:50	raxor2k	:(
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2021-06-03 07:15:42	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: we aren’t changing anything about the channel
2021-06-03 07:15:51	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: we’re just moving it to a more reasonable place
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2021-06-03 07:42:43	oxek	raxor2k: it's the same channel, with the same people, just on a different network
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2021-06-03 08:55:38	Siecje	How many bytes is a timestamp? sys.getsizeof says it gives bytes but then it gives me 32. .bit_length() gives me 31. If there are 8 bits in a byte then why are there 31 bits and 32 bytes?
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2021-06-03 09:01:28	echinos	Ok can do....
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2021-06-03 09:07:27	nedbat	Siecje: sys.getsizeof shows you the size of the entire object, including its type link, ref count, and so on.
2021-06-03 09:07:40	nedbat	Siecje: also, we have moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-03 09:13:52	Karthy	can someone explain what hes trying to say https://youtu.be/qpC2sNcRj5o?t=917
2021-06-03 09:15:50	Siecje	nedbat: I'm not able to connect. Do I need to have already created an account and authenticate?
2021-06-03 09:15:59	nedbat	Siecje: yes
2021-06-03 09:16:37	nedbat	Karthy: we've moved over to https://libera.chat.  When you get there, a more specific question will be easier to answer.
2021-06-03 09:16:47	Siecje	nedbat: https://libera.chat/guides/registration This implies you can do it the same way on freenode through NickServ. But I can't even connect.
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2021-06-03 09:17:35	nedbat	Siecje: maybe info at https://libera.chat/ will help?
2021-06-03 09:18:18	Siecje	I linked a page from that.
2021-06-03 09:19:02	nedbat	Siecje: i'm sorry, i won't be able to debug connection issues
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2021-06-03 09:55:38	habnabit_	Siecje, what client?
2021-06-03 09:55:57	Siecje	habnabit_: LimeChat on macOS.
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2021-06-03 09:56:18	habnabit_	Siecje, what details did you put in for the new connection? you could show a screenshot
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2021-06-03 09:57:12	Siecje	Just irc.libera.chat and port 6697
2021-06-03 09:57:20	habnabit_	Siecje, with tls?
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2021-06-03 10:15:05	Siecje	habnabit_: Okay with SSL (that's what this client has for the label) I am able to connect.
2021-06-03 10:15:18	habnabit_	Siecje, yay
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2021-06-03 10:53:25	tinyhipp1	so I'm using ipaddress to try and assert whether a CIDR exists inside another CIDR, eg. 192.168.1.0/24 is inside 192.168.0.0/16
2021-06-03 10:53:34	tinyhipp1	I cant seem to make it work
2021-06-03 10:54:42	tinyhipp1	/10/
2021-06-03 10:55:36	nedbat	tinyhipp1: we've moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-03 10:55:45	tinyhipp1	that means I have to set up sasl
2021-06-03 10:55:54	tinyhipp1	urgh
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2021-06-03 11:11:52	habnabit_	tinyhipp1, you don't need sasl
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2021-06-03 11:15:19	tinyhipp1	habnabit_: I do, I'm on AWS
2021-06-03 11:15:28	tinyhipp1	                 │16:06:47 liberachat  -- | osmium.libera.chat: *** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server
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2021-06-03 11:17:08	habnabit_	tinyhipp1, ah, well
2021-06-03 11:17:24	habnabit_	tinyhipp1, you can nickserv register from the web chat
2021-06-03 11:17:30	kittonian	hi all. i've got a very strange issue on Big Sur 11.2.2. If I try to launch a python file directly, it finds the necessary modules, however if I launch it via a launchctl daemon it does not. No matter what I have tried, it will not find the python module necessary unless I manually start it from terminal
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2021-06-03 11:18:04	habnabit_	kittonian, we've moved to libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-06-03 11:19:00	kittonian	habnabit_, cool. thanks
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2021-06-03 11:21:29	SnoopJ	yea regrettably the official story for getting a nick otherwise is using webchat
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2021-06-03 12:19:35	neilthereildeil	hey all. i am trying to debug a hang in a multiprocessing program when i print logging output from child processes to stdout and stderr
2021-06-03 12:19:47	neilthereildeil	im facing this issue here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54766479/logging-multithreading-deadlock-in-python
2021-06-03 12:19:48	habnabit_	neilthereildeil, we've moved to libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-06-03 13:24:52	IHasFinger	hi guys i have a schedule which looks like this https://bpa.st/CQ3A however I am finding it difficult to get it set up on my linux server cron job. I have added this to the crontab
2021-06-03 13:24:53	IHasFinger	* * * * * /usr/bin/python3 /var/volume/scheduler.py >> output.log 2>&1
2021-06-03 13:25:05	IHasFinger	but it is not running
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2021-06-03 13:27:04	IHasFinger	when i run systemctl status cron
2021-06-03 13:27:04	IHasFinger	 i can see it on the list
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2021-06-03 13:27:15	nedbat	IHasFinger: hi, we've moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-03 13:28:39	IHasFinger	nedbat, is it LibraIRC?
2021-06-03 13:28:53	nedbat	IHasFinger: no, it's a new network. see the details at https://libera.chat
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2021-06-03 13:43:09	vsantana	nedbat: Why move from freenode?
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2021-06-03 13:43:33	nedbat	vsantana: there are some links on https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-03 13:43:53	vsantana	nedbat: thanks.
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2021-06-03 14:43:32	Bluefoxicy	hmm
2021-06-03 14:44:02	Bluefoxicy	is it valid for __iter__ to return self.mylist.__iter__() ?
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2021-06-03 14:50:54	nedbat	Bluefoxicy: 1) yes, but spell it iter(self.mylist);   2) we have moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-03 16:07:33	frrs	Why hast thou left me behind, nedbat? :(
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2021-06-03 16:29:07	douglaswinship	I'm trying to write my code as an installable script, with a setup.py. But i'm not really used to packaging. Is there a way to reference filepaths relative to the source code directory of the package?
2021-06-03 16:29:11	douglaswinship	I've got a git repo that contains the source code for my package, but also contains other things (like a docker file, and some jinja2 templates). I'm planning to have command lines arguments in my script, so the user can specify "--docker-file-location foo/bar/Dockerfile", and so on. But I'd like to set default values for these arguments.
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2021-06-03 16:29:16	douglaswinship	The trouble is: what do i define the defaults relative to? If I just set them as strings, then they'll be relative to the user's current working directory, and I don't want that. I want them to always point to the same directory in my git repo, whatever the current working directory is. I could use an absolute reference, but that will only work on my laptop. It won't work when someone else pulls
2021-06-03 16:29:22	douglaswinship	the git repo and puts it in a different place on their computer.
2021-06-03 16:29:25	douglaswinship	What I want is some way to write a filepath that says "relative to the src directory for this python package, in the git repository that you originally downloaded and installed it from". But now that I type it out... I don't think that even makes sense, does it?
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2021-06-03 16:30:18	douglaswinship	Maybe i'll just make a mandatory argument "repo-dir", and then define the default paths relative to that.
2021-06-03 16:30:24	kosh	douglaswinship, the channel has moved to libera.chat     https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-03 16:30:32	douglaswinship	damn. Was afraid it might have.
2021-06-03 16:30:35	douglaswinship	kosh: thanks.
2021-06-03 16:31:03	kosh	why are you afraid of that?
2021-06-03 16:31:22	kosh	same people, same channels, different server
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2021-06-03 16:33:19	douglaswinship	kosh: I use IRSSI for IRC, because I'm used to it and familiar with it, and don't like change. But it's been so long since I set it up, that i've fogotten the commands to add a new server. 🤣
2021-06-03 16:33:28	douglaswinship	Was hoping I could put it off a bit longer.
2021-06-03 16:33:41	kosh	ah
2021-06-03 16:33:50	kosh	freenode has done a good job of burning itself to the ground
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2021-06-03 17:07:55	Hash	kosh: how?
2021-06-03 17:08:13	kosh	stupid things they have done
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2021-06-03 17:08:49	Hash	what stupid things?
2021-06-03 17:09:05	kosh	https://www.techradar.com/news/major-open-source-projects-abandon-freenode-following-hostile-takeover
2021-06-03 17:09:06	Hash	you think freenode new people did this?
2021-06-03 17:09:11	Hash	You think the carpet pissers did this?
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2021-06-03 17:09:21	kosh	https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/26/freenode_irc_takeover/
2021-06-03 17:10:21	kosh	the new staff control the servers, they ran the scripts that took channels over, they changed the policies after they did it, they changed the policies regarding hate speech, nobody else did that to them
2021-06-03 17:10:25	Hash	You mean a buch irc addics couldn't handle losing control so they divided IRC and did some mass walkout liek college kids
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2021-06-03 17:10:32	Hash	I'm not impressed.
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2021-06-03 17:10:47	Hash	Freenodestaff (original) are like little kids who threw a temper tantrum fit
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2021-06-03 17:11:12	Hash	Couldn't handle some other guy in control, fractured IRC and made a new network where they can play god.
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2021-06-03 17:11:20	Hash	You think I'm bloody impressed, man?
2021-06-03 17:11:28	Hash	No. I can think for myself. Thanks.
2021-06-03 17:13:07	zumba_addict	hey folks, I'm trying to figure out how to only display the value string. However, the output is like an boto3 method that contains the string I need
2021-06-03 17:13:12	zumba_addict	i'll share an output
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2021-06-03 17:16:09	zumba_addict	Here's more details - https://bpa.st/ZYZQ
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2021-06-03 17:18:15	zumba_addict	When I changed the print code to this - `print(type(t))`, output was `<class 'boto3.resources.factory.ec2.RouteTable'>`
2021-06-03 17:19:57	nedbat	zumba_addict: we've moved to https://libera.chat, answers will be quicker there.
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2021-06-03 17:20:39	kosh	nedbat, I think you can also toss the troll while you are here :)
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2021-06-03 17:21:24	nedbat	kosh: no harm no foul
2021-06-03 17:21:41	nedbat	kosh: i don't understand it, but whatever
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2021-06-03 17:29:07	zumba_addict	sorry, I got confused
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2021-06-03 17:34:51	zumba_addict	nedbat=> I posted my question in libera
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2021-06-03 17:35:10	nedbat	zumba_addict: are you sure? I don't see it there
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2021-06-03 17:36:28	zumba_addict	yep, I posted it
2021-06-03 17:36:38	Byteflux	He's being sorted out, he asked in #libera :P
2021-06-03 17:36:45	nedbat	Byteflux: got it
2021-06-03 17:36:54	Byteflux	zumba_addict: You want the #python channel on Libera, not #libera
2021-06-03 17:37:00	zumba_addict	oh
2021-06-03 17:37:08	zumba_addict	it's my first time with libera
2021-06-03 17:37:41	Byteflux	You just need to set up a NickServ account (/msg NickServ HELP REGISTER) and then you will be allowed to join #python there.
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2021-06-03 17:37:52	zumba_addict	got it
2021-06-03 17:38:07	zumba_addict	why are we leaving this channel
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2021-06-03 17:38:24	nedbat	zumba_addict: there are some links on https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-03 17:38:36	zumba_addict	k
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2021-06-03 17:38:52	Byteflux	Yep, give it a read if you really wanna know, many projects big and small are relocating
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2021-06-03 17:40:31	--	kostkon__ is now known as kostkon
2021-06-03 17:42:26	zumba_addict	I'm in!
2021-06-03 17:42:29	zumba_addict	Thank you both!
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2021-06-03 18:40:00	spaceone_	is with debhelper-compat=12 only --buildsystem=pybuild allowed?
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2021-06-03 18:45:46	nedbat	spaceone_: are you in the right channel?
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2021-06-03 18:54:41	raxor2k	So i can not ask python relation questions here anymore ?
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2021-06-03 19:04:07	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: you’ll get more answers on libera.chat
2021-06-03 19:04:42	raxor2k	Chriswarrick: so i just "/j libera.chat"?
2021-06-03 19:05:09	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: nope
2021-06-03 19:05:22	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: you’ll need to reconfigure your IRC client to connect to libera.chat instead of freenode
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2021-06-03 19:09:00	raxor2k	so on libera.chat network, the #python channel is still same ?
2021-06-03 19:09:22	Xavierdarkness	Yes
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2021-06-03 19:17:50	raxor2k	doesnt seem that libera.chat is supported on Mirc :(
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2021-06-03 19:21:32	cybrNaut	I need to silence this code and get an error-free return status => curl -s "$some_website" | python -c $'from bs4 import BeautifulSoup\nimport sys\nfor f in BeautifulSoup(sys.stdin.read()).findAll("form"):\n  print(f)\n'
2021-06-03 19:21:35	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: it is not part of the default network list
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2021-06-03 19:21:47	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: also, quite frankly, mirc is garbage
2021-06-03 19:21:49	cybrNaut	it says: 'To get rid of this warning, change code that looks like this: BeautifulSoup([your markup], "lxml")'
2021-06-03 19:22:12	cybrNaut	but when i add the "lxml" option, it does the same
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2021-06-03 19:24:31	raxor2k	ChrisWarrick: it may be garbage, but its legendary <3
2021-06-03 19:24:35	raxor2k	No one can replace Mirc, ever <3
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2021-06-03 19:24:45	ChrisWarrick	uh, no
2021-06-03 19:24:56	ChrisWarrick	there are tons of (a) great (b) free clients out there
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2021-06-03 19:27:41	raxor2k	Chriswarrick: let me guess, you are using IrcCloud ?
2021-06-03 19:27:51	ChrisWarrick	raxor2k: nope, weechat
2021-06-03 19:27:52	cybrNaut	nvm.. got it working
2021-06-03 19:30:45	nedbat	cybrNaut: we've moved to https://libera.chat mostly btw
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2021-06-03 19:36:19	cybrNaut	thanks for the tip but i'm not sure when i'll have the time to set that up.  The cloat-and-dagger lifestyle complicates things.  Does libera.chat allow Tor connections?
2021-06-03 19:38:04	Peng	Yes, with a similar to policy as freenode had.
2021-06-03 19:38:04	Peng	s/to //
2021-06-03 19:39:10	nedbat	cybrNaut: why cloak and dagger?
2021-06-03 19:39:49	cybrNaut	hmm, well freenode disallowed tor and I was forced to do something complex.  But then I heard a rumor that Freenode started allowing Tor again, but not in a simple way.. you had to do something special to make it work IIRC
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2021-06-03 19:40:42	cybrNaut	nedbat: i insist on being anonymous because the only free speech is anonymous speech
2021-06-03 19:40:53	nedbat	cybrNaut: ok
2021-06-03 19:41:30	cybrNaut	i'm still tracable, but i'm not doing anything that would compel the effort
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2021-06-03 19:41:45	nedbat	cybrNaut: me too, so why go to the trouble?
2021-06-03 19:41:47	ChrisWarrick	cybrNaut: libera.chat is run by the same people who ran freenode a month ago
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2021-06-03 19:42:23	ChrisWarrick	cybrNaut: I know “I don’t have anything to hide” is a terrible argument, but for a public IRC channel, does Tor really make sense?
2021-06-03 19:43:40	cybrNaut	nedbat: my threat model includes mass surveillance, but not targeted surveillance.  That entails making just enough effort to not be caught up in mass surveillance records, but military grade anonymity would be overboard
2021-06-03 19:44:02	nedbat	cybrNaut: ok. we'll see you on libera.chat when you get it set up.
2021-06-03 19:44:17	cybrNaut	ChrisWarrick: i never said I have nothing to hide.  I do have things to hide.
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2021-06-03 19:44:37	ChrisWarrick	ok, sure
2021-06-03 19:45:21	cybrNaut	nedbat: when i do, you won't know it's me b/c i'll use a different nick.   muahahaha
2021-06-03 19:45:33	 *	cybrNaut continues evil laugh
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2021-06-03 19:48:27	nedbat	cybrNaut: i don't know much beyond nicks anyway, so it's all good
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2021-06-03 20:29:18	Jonno_FTW	nedbat: alright I'll leave
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2021-06-03 22:38:09	wyclif	Hi, anybody here moved over to Libera.chat yet? Having some trouble joining channels over there, wondering if anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong
2021-06-03 22:38:37	wyclif	I've managed to configure SASL and sign into irc.libera.chat, but I cannot join a channel
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2021-06-03 22:40:09	wyclif	Error I'm getting is "Irssi: Unable to connect server <#channel>  port 6667 [nodename nor servname provided, or not known]
2021-06-03 22:41:48	Peng	What command did you run?
2021-06-03 22:42:08	Peng	You can join a channel with, for example, "/join #python"
2021-06-03 22:42:48	KirkMcDonald	That error looks like you're trying to connect to a server with the name of the channel. Which obviously won't work.
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2021-06-03 23:24:24	wyclif	hello
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2021-06-04 00:26:25	ColdKeyboard	Is there a simple demo/example that allows you to place "rays source" and "blockers" and then render how the rays would propagate from the source to the end "wall"?
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2021-06-04 00:31:31	rindolf	Hi Pythoneers! Shabbath shalom from Tel Aviv, the israeli city of sin, and little real crime. what's the good news?
2021-06-04 00:35:28	Wulf	rindolf: Hello! Good news is, we're now on libera :)
2021-06-04 00:36:29	rindolf	Wulf: libera is a decoy, imho
2021-06-04 00:37:08	Wulf	rindolf: decoy? How is that?
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2021-06-04 00:38:21	rindolf	Wulf: last ditch attempt of my inner devils: https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-tech-diary/blob/master/why-the-so-called-real-world-i-am-trapped-in-makes-little-sense--2020-05-19.asciidoc
2021-06-04 00:41:45	rindolf	Wulf: i am crazy, btw. it's the new coolness.
2021-06-04 00:41:48	Wulf	rindolf: I know of daemons and threads. But what are devils?
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2021-06-04 00:45:12	rindolf	Wulf: they are malevolent mind demons - not particularly related to electronic computers
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2021-06-04 01:15:31	stewie925	dumb question guys - Im trying to post my question on the https://bpa.st/+python - but I dont know how to do the text and code block
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2021-06-04 01:17:37	stewie925	anyway i have a python flask question ...
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2021-06-04 01:20:12	stewie925	here is the 'edit menu' template file  https://github.com/udacity/Full-Stack-Foundations/blob/master/Lesson-3/18_Styling/templates/editmenuitem.html#L26-L46 - and if you look at the code its picking up the value of the  "course" and mark the value to the corresponding radio button
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2021-06-04 01:22:10	stewie925	And here is the python code for the edit menu (see highlight):  https://github.com/udacity/Full-Stack-Foundations/blob/master/Lesson-3/12_Edit-Menu-Form/project.py#L62-L76
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2021-06-04 01:28:13	Wulf	stewie925: Hello! Mind asking this on libera instead of freenode?
2021-06-04 01:30:28	stewie925	I;ll try tomorrrow:) . its kinda late here anyways...  never used libera yet
2021-06-04 01:30:41	stewie925	thanks Wulf
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2021-06-04 01:44:35	dka	hi
2021-06-04 01:44:48	dka	I have an error when I try to run pip install : https://paste.debian.net/1199975/
2021-06-04 01:44:51	dka	Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not writeable
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2021-06-04 01:52:20	rindolf	dka: python 2.x...
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2021-06-04 01:52:31	Wulf	dka: stop using py2 and DO NOT use pip outside a virtual env.
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2021-06-04 01:54:32	dka	I use python3 bellow
2021-06-04 01:54:39	dka	if you look bellow in the past
2021-06-04 01:54:50	dka	don't need to scroll down, should be here
2021-06-04 01:55:09	dka	I was able to run the install command but I had to add sudo before the command, is that bad ?
2021-06-04 01:55:10	Wulf	dka: at top it says 2.7
2021-06-04 01:55:18	Wulf	dka: VERY bad.
2021-06-04 01:55:19	dka	I have tried both obviously
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2021-06-04 01:55:49	dka	really ? =/
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2021-06-04 01:55:56	dka	that's the whole output https://paste.debian.net/1199977/
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2021-06-04 01:56:05	dka	as you can see, I couldn't run the cmd without sudy
2021-06-04 01:56:40	Wulf	dka: okay. Use a virtual env.
2021-06-04 01:56:43	dka	I am not a python dev, so to me virtual env is a tool I almost never used in my life, I want to help the py devs so I can https://github.com/pass-culture/pass-culture-api/pull/2588 merge this
2021-06-04 01:56:51	dka	but I want to get the proper db revision for my migration
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2021-06-04 02:00:27	veek	any module that can generate a tree that grows UNLIKE man 1 tree ..    unlike this https://i.imgur.com/wlx4SAn.png
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2021-06-04 02:03:48	dka	Apparently, to get alembic heads command to pass, I need to set this in my development env
2021-06-04 02:03:49	dka	https://github.com/pass-culture/pass-culture-api/blob/00c5a61170aafbc2ba9c87cd510d5c69a687d5ab/src/pcapi/settings.py#L109-L114
2021-06-04 02:04:01	dka	I have added those in my term, but also in .env.development at the root of my api
2021-06-04 02:04:11	dka	I still get an error     def parse_email_addresses(addresses: Optional[str]) -> list[str]:
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2021-06-04 02:07:46	dka	How does "os.environ.get"  works ?
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2021-06-04 02:09:51	dka	https://paste.debian.net/1199978/ that's the error, I can't set the .env.development variable so alembic heads works
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2021-06-04 02:11:04	dka	is it because I don't know what venv is ?
2021-06-04 02:12:27	Tashtari	dka: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-04 06:02:44	d3vyL	Hello
2021-06-04 06:02:52	nedbat	d3vyL: hey there
2021-06-04 06:03:15	d3vyL	How're you nedbat?
2021-06-04 06:03:33	nedbat	d3vyL: pretty good.  this channel is quiet, we're moved to https://libera.chat
2021-06-04 06:03:43	d3vyL	ah really? that's why so noone was chatting here
2021-06-04 06:04:03	d3vyL	so channel on freenode is going to die?
2021-06-04 06:04:04	oxek	d3vyL: this channel has been inactive for over a week now
2021-06-04 06:04:08	d3vyL	oh woah
2021-06-04 06:04:09	oxek	it is dead
2021-06-04 06:04:12	d3vyL	it's been a while
2021-06-04 06:04:20	nedbat	d3vyL: hard to say what will happen in the long term, but libera is live
2021-06-04 06:04:30	d3vyL	what happened here?
2021-06-04 06:04:36	d3vyL	I mean it's there a reason?
2021-06-04 06:04:43	oxek	d3vyL: put 'freenode' into your favorite search engine and read the news
2021-06-04 06:04:52	d3vyL	oh okok
2021-06-04 06:04:56	d3vyL	sorry to ask
2021-06-04 06:05:00	Wulf	d3vyL: freenode is under new management. Not everyone likes them.
2021-06-04 06:05:08	d3vyL	I understand ^^
2021-06-04 06:05:50	nedbat	d3vyL: there are links on https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-04 06:05:54	oxek	I still hold the stance that this channel should CLEAR once to stop misleading users by having so many idle users in here
2021-06-04 06:07:16	-->	tesseract (~tesseract@2a01:e0a:280:2920:facf:c4c6:e308:f5cc) has joined #python
2021-06-04 06:07:35	d3vyL	May I ask you about a guy who was on this chat times ago? I used to chat with him a lot
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2021-06-04 06:07:45	d3vyL	his nickname is go|dfish
2021-06-04 06:07:48	d3vyL	is from Dublin
2021-06-04 06:07:52	d3vyL	in the last period he was really really sick
2021-06-04 06:08:02	d3vyL	and I'm worried about him
2021-06-04 06:08:10	d3vyL	just asking
2021-06-04 06:08:56	d3vyL	I've spent like 2 years with him on freenode #python
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2021-06-04 06:10:14	nedbat	d3vyL: there is someone named "goldfish" who spoke in libera #python three days ago
2021-06-04 06:10:28	d3vyL	I suppose is not the same guyu his nickname was go|dfish
2021-06-04 06:10:42	d3vyL	but thanks for the interest
2021-06-04 06:10:46	chour	i remember that name - talked to him a few times and asked him about webscraping using python
2021-06-04 06:10:47	d3vyL	was just worried about him
2021-06-04 06:10:49	d3vyL	yeah
2021-06-04 06:10:50	d3vyL	it is
2021-06-04 06:10:53	chour	many years ago though
2021-06-04 06:10:55	d3vyL	it's like my sensei
2021-06-04 06:11:02	d3vyL	last chat we did during quarantene
2021-06-04 06:11:05	d3vyL	was not so nice
2021-06-04 06:11:23	Wulf	d3vyL: "go|dfish" was last active in November.
2021-06-04 06:11:26	d3vyL	I wrote to him 3 email, we chat like every day in the past and I didn't get an answer
2021-06-04 06:11:29	d3vyL	yeah
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2021-06-04 06:12:48	d3vyL	thanks anyway for the info guys ^^
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2021-06-04 06:12:54	d3vyL	I hope he's ok so
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2021-06-04 06:14:17	Wulf	I guess "goldfish" is someone else.
2021-06-04 06:14:24	d3vyL	yeah he is
2021-06-04 06:14:28	d3vyL	it's not the same guy
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2021-06-04 06:18:55	d3vyL	thanks anyway guys for the info
2021-06-04 06:18:57	d3vyL	have a nice day all!
2021-06-04 06:19:01	chour	you too
2021-06-04 06:19:03	chour	take care
2021-06-04 06:19:09	d3vyL	you too all!!
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2021-06-04 06:19:09	d3vyL	Bye
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2021-06-04 07:15:46	phage_33	i have a loaded question about api requests. i have a program that's being used to compete with other people in how fast we're able to request and obtain data from 50+ servers. the time in which they're receiving the json packages from the servers we're all requesting from appears to be 3-6 seconds faster than my program. however, i believe it's
2021-06-04 07:15:47	phage_33	related to my distance from each server, how would i verify this without external assistance?
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2021-06-04 07:24:03	oxek	phage_33: try asking in the official #python channel. But to give you a possible starting point, you could simulate lag/distance to a server by introducing delays, and seeing if your code is delayed by the expected emount
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2021-06-04 07:25:50	phage_33	good idea
2021-06-04 07:25:53	phage_33	thanks!
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2021-06-04 10:59:23	Guest20	queries = [ 'starbucks cupertino', 'McDonalds', 'apple park']
2021-06-04 10:59:28	Guest20	i have something like this
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2021-06-04 10:59:38	Guest20	i want to split everything in each word
2021-06-04 10:59:54	Guest20	i was able to write a list comprehension using forloop
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2021-06-04 11:06:27	habnabit_	Guest20, btw we're all on libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
2021-06-04 11:07:04	Guest20	habnabit_ can i not post the messages here
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2021-06-04 11:07:28	habnabit_	Guest20, you can, but if you want an answer, move to the other server
2021-06-04 11:07:42	Guest20	do i need to install a different client for this?
2021-06-04 11:07:49	Guest20	i use textual which is an irc client
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2021-06-04 11:09:38	nurupo	most clients allow to connect to whatever server you want, you just have to enter the address/port
2021-06-04 11:09:47	habnabit_	Guest20, no, you can just add a new network or change freenode's server to irc.libera.chat
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2021-06-04 11:10:14	habnabit_	Guest20, freenode spiritually moved whilst leaving behind the cold hard dead metal of the old server
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2021-06-04 11:10:16	habnabit_	s
2021-06-04 11:10:31	Guest20	i have changed the setting
2021-06-04 11:10:49	Guest20	does it tell that im coming from irc.libera.chat?
2021-06-04 11:10:49	nurupo	try re-connecting then
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2021-06-04 11:10:59	nurupo	you are still on freenode
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2021-06-04 11:11:00	habnabit_	Guest20, you'll need to disconnect and reconnect
2021-06-04 11:11:19	Guest20	oh ok i have left the channel and joined back again
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2021-06-04 11:18:18	Guest20	hi there
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2021-06-04 11:18:27	Guest20	habnabit_ am i connected from libera now
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2021-06-04 11:23:56	Guest20	how can i check myself if im connected from irc.libera.chat
2021-06-04 11:24:01	Guest20	i tried running this command /connect irc.libera.chat 6667
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2021-06-04 11:25:42	greentree47	What would be the best data structure to use if I wanted a “nickname”:domain mapping
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2021-06-04 11:26:11	frrs	greentree47: depends on what you intend to do with it
2021-06-04 11:26:16	greentree47	The nickname has to be unique but there could be multiple domains, do I just want a dict with string keys and values as lists?
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2021-06-04 11:28:07	frrs	Potentially yes
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2021-06-04 11:34:43	greentree47	Snap I DCed did anyone happen to comment about a data structure frrs
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2021-06-04 19:21:06	alcides	guys, I have some utf8 hex codes like C3A9... how to conver those hex codes to the char "é"
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2021-06-04 19:23:26	InPhase	alcides: It's done like b'\xc3\xa9'.decode()  But please note that almost all of the conversation is now on irc.libera.chat as mentioned in the topic and the link there.  The rest of us are just popping on here occasionally to see if anyone missed the transition.
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2021-06-04 19:24:19	ChrisWarrick	Speaking of which… we’re at 900 users on libera and 959 on trainwrecknode
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2021-06-04 19:24:58	InPhase	ChrisWarrick: Mostly dormant connections are here.  Every channel I'm in is basically a ghost town.  I don't know why so many are dormant.
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2021-06-04 19:25:09	alcides	InPhase I read something about it... is because of that korean guy?
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2021-06-04 19:25:28	InPhase	alcides: That would not be the way I'd describe it.
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2021-06-04 19:26:31	InPhase	alcides: This network was bought out and is no longer operating like a community-driven non-profit, and no longer seems to follow the open source principles upon which it was originally founded.  Libera was formed as a properly structured non-profit to continue those principles, and all the open source projects migrated to there.
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2021-06-04 19:28:46	alcides	InPhase I see... I'm moving too
2021-06-04 19:28:53	InPhase	See you over there.  :)
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2021-06-04 19:41:02	oxek	I say CLEAR every channel and see who reconnects
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2021-06-04 20:04:26	emerent	I thought I left this one already
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2021-06-05 01:23:08	bencc1	What should I use instead of gio.io_scheduler_push_job() in gstreamer python project?
2021-06-05 01:23:12	bencc1	it says it's deprecated
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2021-06-05 01:37:17	Rose	Hi
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2021-06-05 03:35:26	dvyd	I'm using Google's text-to-speech API through its Python client. Is there any better IRC channel for related questions?  I believe I credentialed myself correctly. However, the script freezes when it submits a request. There is no error message.
2021-06-05 03:36:50	dvyd	Actually, it eventually fails with:      metadata=[('x-goog-api-client', 'gl-python/3.7.9 grpc/1.38.0 gax/1.29.0 gapic/2.4.0')]), last exception: 503 Getting metadata from plugin failed with error: ('invalid_grant: Invalid JWT Signature.', {'error': 'invalid_grant', 'error_description': 'Invalid JWT Signature.'})
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2021-06-05 04:03:17	oxek	dvyd: this channel is mostly inactive, go to the main python channel
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2021-06-05 04:06:25	dvyd	isn't this the main python channel? #python?
2021-06-05 04:07:55	Wulf	dvyd: other irc network, libera.
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2021-06-05 04:09:53	dvyd	ok. thanks.
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2021-06-05 05:10:57	rafal1	Hi, I outsourced a function (which reads a file in the same path as my script) into a module. Before I used os.path.dirname(os.path.realpath(__file__))+os.path.sep+"conf.ini" to get the path to the script.  In the module __file__ holds the path of my module but not of my main script. (How) can I get the path of my main script whithin my new module?
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2021-06-05 05:40:55	oxek	rafal1: this channel is mostly inactive, go to the main python channel
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2021-06-05 05:57:17	unluckyshrubbery	oxek, is this not the main channel?
2021-06-05 05:57:28	oxek	unluckyshrubbery: no
2021-06-05 05:57:36	unluckyshrubbery	which one is?
2021-06-05 05:57:42	oxek	read /topic, it will lead you to https://www.pound-python.org which explains where the new channel is
2021-06-05 05:57:51	unluckyshrubbery	thanks
2021-06-05 05:58:35	rafal1	Thanks for the hint, oxek
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2021-06-05 08:14:09	maum	hello
2021-06-05 08:15:15	maum	how can I delete space or \n in list? for example list = [['1','2','3',''], ['4','5','6','\n']]
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2021-06-05 08:20:51	ChrisWarrick	maum: [[i for i in sublist if i.strip()] for sublist in list]
2021-06-05 08:20:53	-->	pizdets (~pizdets@183.182.110.41) has joined #python
2021-06-05 08:21:07	Wulf	del list[0][3]; del list[1][3]
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2021-06-05 08:22:10	ChrisWarrick	maum: also, the official #python channel is on libera.chat, consider going there instead
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2021-06-05 08:23:56	maum	chrisWarrick: that is not work
2021-06-05 08:24:39	ChrisWarrick	maum: how does it not work?
2021-06-05 08:25:15	maum	https://bpa.st/FVCA
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2021-06-05 08:25:30	ChrisWarrick	maum: how does it not work?
2021-06-05 08:25:54	maum	it includes space and \n yet
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2021-06-05 08:26:06	ChrisWarrick	maum: okay, but your paste doesn’t tell me what you get and what you expect
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2021-06-05 08:29:11	maum	https://bpa.st/CWJQ
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2021-06-05 08:32:08	ChrisWarrick	maum: create the list first, then use my snippet directly
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2021-06-05 08:36:44	maum	ChrisWarrick: it is working thanks
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2021-06-05 08:40:37	proteusguy	Is this channel abandoned on freenode or still supported?
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2021-06-05 08:43:27	ChrisWarrick	proteusguy: go to libera.chat
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2021-06-05 08:44:43	proteusguy	ChrisWarrick, no thank you. I was just asking if this channel is abandoned by its ops or not. I have no interest in going to another network.
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2021-06-05 08:45:24	oxek	proteusguy: consider it abandoned by ops and channel owners
2021-06-05 08:45:43	oxek	you might still get useful answers in here, but will have a better hope of that on other networks
2021-06-05 08:46:19	oxek	proteusguy: why do you have no interest in going to another network?
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2021-06-05 08:47:27	proteusguy	oxek, why would I?
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2021-06-05 08:50:03	oxek	because there's activity there, whereas there's little or no activity here?
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2021-06-05 08:50:15	oxek	what's the point of being the only person on an IRC network?
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2021-06-05 08:51:56	proteusguy	oxek, I appreciate your concern... I'm fine here.
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2021-06-05 09:31:04	habnabit_	proteusguy, this channel is just a trampoline for going to the canonical network for the channel
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2021-06-05 11:06:03	wyoung	proteusguy: I am still helping people here
2021-06-05 11:06:17	wyoung	what's your question?
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2021-06-05 11:26:10	--	Mode #python [+o habnabit_] by ChanServ
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2021-06-05 11:27:18	habnabit_	(they are a known problem)
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2021-06-05 11:33:28	oxek	I was wondering what that was about
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2021-06-05 13:38:00	newpy	what's everyone's favorite python linter?
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2021-06-05 13:39:18	nedbat	newpy: pylint is still the primary linter, though some people prefer pyflakes.  neither is new.  Also, we have moved to https://libera.chat
2021-06-05 13:40:09	nedbat	(sorry, for some reason I thought you asked about new linters)
2021-06-05 13:40:25	newpy	just ran into an argument about black
2021-06-05 13:40:30	newpy	was wondering what people here thought
2021-06-05 13:40:40	nedbat	newpy: black is a formatter, not a linter, though you can use it to check formatting
2021-06-05 13:40:56	nedbat	newpy: many people love black with a passion. i'm on the fence.
2021-06-05 13:41:18	newpy	I'm not a huge fan of the EE Cummings brand of styling
2021-06-05 13:41:26	newpy	ofc I'll use whatever the team is using
2021-06-05 13:42:23	habnabit_	newpy, the rest of the team is on libera.chat, btw ;)
2021-06-05 13:42:41	newpy	habnabit_, googling it now :D
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2021-06-05 13:52:24	Tashtari	e. e. cummings brand of styling?
2021-06-05 13:54:31	newpy	Tashtari, http://eecpoem.pbworks.com/f/1222900034/377368543_8cece7838d_o.jpg
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2021-06-05 13:55:15	newpy	Tashtari, there's a better example I've seen with almost 1 character per line haha
2021-06-05 13:55:40	Tashtari	I know about e. e. cummings, but I was curious what its relationship to style in py was.
2021-06-05 13:55:55	newpy	oh, I think the black formatter does stuff like:
2021-06-05 13:55:59	newpy	def f(
2021-06-05 13:56:01	newpy	  a,
2021-06-05 13:56:03	newpy	  b,
2021-06-05 13:56:09	newpy	  c):
2021-06-05 13:56:21	Tashtari	Oh, that's a bit much...
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2021-06-05 15:09:37	limbera	hi, i'm learning how to use pyenv (been a while since i've written any python). i think i have set pyenv globally to be 3.9.5, but when i do that and check python --version it still thinks i am on 2.7.16. here's a paste: https://bpa.st/WYGQ
2021-06-05 15:10:12	ChrisWarrick	limbera: check your $PATH and come to #python on libera.chat — you’ll get much more help there
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2021-06-05 15:11:28	limbera	ok, thanks ChrisWarrick
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2021-06-05 16:41:40	f8e4	hey how to add +/- to fstring float?
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2021-06-05 16:42:03	Tashtari	f8e4: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-05 16:42:34	 *	f8e4 wrong answer
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2021-06-05 16:43:15	nedbat	f8e4: f"{your_float:+f}"   but please be nice to people
2021-06-05 16:44:16	habnabit_	f8e4, we're not using the channel for python questions anymore
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2021-06-05 16:46:08	dfcnvt	I'm trying to think in term of career, to become a professional as a developer...but I can't seem to pinpoint well which of the company (or startup company) that is usually looking for in developer.  Where can I see the high demands by the CEO/PM/Company...in regard as a developer in certain programming language?
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2021-06-05 16:48:37	dfcnvt	Actually, maybe wrong frame of thinking -- perhaps, I should reframe this, how do I make money out of making a code?  Seem as simple but there are some discussion about GitHub that introduced a feature to sponsor or to contribute -- as a way to earn money.
2021-06-05 16:49:04	f8e4	nedbat ok ok ty
2021-06-05 16:49:11	dfcnvt	More like, I will try to figure out to build something as awesome or as useful...and will ask for a donation...but I don't know if that's the smart direction to make.
2021-06-05 16:49:19	nvz	dfcnvt: there are also code bounties
2021-06-05 16:49:21	f8e4	is there mirgration guide at least?
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2021-06-05 16:50:14	nvz	dfcnvt: I don't have a good answer to your question though as I often think companies are pretty vague about their needs
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2021-06-05 16:50:39	nvz	dfcnvt: really I'd treat it like any job and investigate the company, the things they do and try imagine where your skills could fit in
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2021-06-05 16:50:43	f8e4	dfcnvt: sign in and start hacking (for money) until y figured what y want https://gitcoin.co/ ; selection is crypto related though
2021-06-05 16:50:46	ChrisWarrick	dfcnvt: A career in open-source would be sustainable for only a few people, a well-paying job at a company (big or small) is a much better option IMO
2021-06-05 16:50:53	ChrisWarrick	and don’t get into crypto BS
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2021-06-05 16:51:10	 *	f8e4 chris lost some .. but what
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2021-06-05 16:51:21	f8e4	i hope not the keys
2021-06-05 16:51:31	nvz	I personally couldnt fathom being happy coding for my income so I dont really think about it much
2021-06-05 16:51:51	nvz	I code more out of need.. I don't particularly enjoy it
2021-06-05 16:51:51	ChrisWarrick	f8e4: re the libera thing: configure your IRC client to connect to irc.libera.chat, register with nickserv, and join #python
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2021-06-05 16:52:25	ChrisWarrick	f8e4: I haven’t lost any crypto fake internet points. But I am really unhappy with the effects of crypto people on the environment and on the hardware market.
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2021-06-05 16:58:50	f8e4	ChrisWarrick: what if i told you the exitence of a guranteed store of value will halt overconsum and crave for more since ppl dont get their hard earnings diluted by gov printing
2021-06-05 16:59:07	ChrisWarrick	f8e4: yeah, right, that doesn’t make any sense
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2021-06-05 16:59:44	f8e4	yup; like satoshi said to larimer: if you dont get it i dont have time to convince you
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2021-06-05 17:08:01	f8e4	how to convert this to datetime in python?: '2021-06-04T20:22:34.715911+00:00'
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2021-06-05 17:18:16	ChrisWarrick	f8e4: the official #python channel will be happy to answer this question
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2021-06-05 19:22:47	Bluefoxicy	 is hilarious.
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2021-06-05 19:23:12	Bluefoxicy	\node (Jobs1) at ($(Panel2TL) + (0.5in, -0.5in)$) {long text goes here};
2021-06-05 19:23:30	Bluefoxicy	\node at ($(Jobs1) + (0in,-1in)$) {Where are they?};
2021-06-05 19:23:44	Bluefoxicy	All nodes anchor west.
2021-06-05 19:23:52	Bluefoxicy	the second node appears centered below the first node.
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2021-06-05 19:24:19	nedbat	Bluefoxicy: are you in the right channel?
2021-06-05 19:24:24	Bluefoxicy	oops
2021-06-05 19:24:42	Bluefoxicy	frigging thing I was in #latex but hexchat wasn't all the way open :|  It opened this channel while I was typing
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2021-06-05 19:24:59	nedbat	no worries, it's pretty quiet here anyway
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2021-06-05 20:48:27	bodqhrohro	How do I escape a space in argparse-based CLI?
2021-06-05 20:49:29	nedbat	bodqhrohro: you put quotes around the whole word, but how you quote depends on the shell you're using.
2021-06-05 20:49:38	nedbat	bodqhrohro: also, we've moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-05 20:52:40	bodqhrohro	nedbat: does argparse has something to do with the shell? Anyway, I tried ' and ", both don't work and just are treated as a part of an argument.
2021-06-05 20:53:04	nedbat	bodqhrohro: what operating system are you using?
2021-06-05 20:53:17	bodqhrohro	nedbat: GNU/Linux.
2021-06-05 20:53:25	nedbat	bodqhrohro: and can you link us to the code and how you ran the program?
2021-06-05 20:54:33	bodqhrohro	nedbat: it's weechat-matrix, it has a WeechatArgParse class extending argparse for the Weechat's internal CLI commands.
2021-06-05 20:54:54	nedbat	bodqhrohro: can you join us on https://libera.chat?
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2021-06-05 20:55:11	bodqhrohro	nedbat: I have my bouncer set up to Freenode only
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2021-06-05 21:06:21	nedbat	bodqhrohro: were you going to show us how you ran the program?
2021-06-05 21:07:32	bodqhrohro	nedbat: umm, just `weechat-curses` o_O
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2021-06-05 21:07:44	nedbat	bodqhrohro: you said you quoted some arguments?
2021-06-05 21:08:08	bodqhrohro	nedbat: yup, the quotes are just glued to nearby words.
2021-06-05 21:08:20	nedbat	bodqhrohro: can you show the whole command line you used?
2021-06-05 21:08:50	mattfly	in pyautogui, how can i flush user pressing keys? Like i have now a shortcut that does stuff with pyautogui but if  i am still holding the shortcut keys the pyautogui keypresses just goes screwed up
2021-06-05 21:09:03	mattfly	is there a way to call up on all keyboard keys or flush this somehow??
2021-06-05 21:09:10	bodqhrohro	nedbat: /olm import "/file/path" "pass phra se with spa ces"
2021-06-05 21:09:22	mattfly	not needed to turn the keyboard off for the user but at least ignore what he is currently pressing
2021-06-05 21:11:04	nedbat	bodqhrohro: i don't see how that couldn't work.  what's happening when it doesn't work?
2021-06-05 21:11:13	nedbat	mattfly: we're mostly at http://libera.chat
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2021-06-05 21:13:22	bodqhrohro	nedbat: Error: unrecognized arguments: phra se with spa ces"
2021-06-05 21:13:58	mattfly	nedbat:  i thought I was on libera!!!! thanks
2021-06-05 21:14:04	bodqhrohro	So it just eats up "pass and treats everything further as separate words.
2021-06-05 21:14:19	nedbat	bodqhrohro: it could be that the quotes are working, and there's something else wrong with your line.
2021-06-05 21:18:27	bodqhrohro	nedbat: yeah, I see, the arguments seem to be roughly split by spaces before passing to argparse https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix/blob/master/matrix/commands.py#L63
2021-06-05 21:19:18	nedbat	bodqhrohro: but wait, this is inside weechat, not in an OS terminal?
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2021-06-05 21:19:55	nedbat	bodqhrohro: so shell quoting doesn't apply
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2021-06-05 21:31:36	bodqhrohro	nedbat: yeah, I told already it's a Weechat's internal CLI.
2021-06-05 21:32:22	nedbat	bodqhrohro: sounds like you should file a bug with them to add some quote handling
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2021-06-05 21:32:57	bodqhrohro	nedbat: they only accept PRs now, so I'll have to fix that myself :P
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2021-06-05 21:58:14	nedbat	bodqhrohro: https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix/issues/new ?
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2021-06-05 22:11:19	bodqhrohro	nedbat: nope :P https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix/pull/277
2021-06-05 22:11:50	nedbat	bodqhrohro: even better
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2021-06-06 01:58:11	_7Teen	hey guys im having trouble with this one script. anyone cares to lend a hand?
2021-06-06 02:00:00	_7Teen	the script is intended to search for a specific .txt file and spit out the content of the file. the only info i have on the file is its specific size in bytes.
2021-06-06 02:01:41	Tashtari	_7Teen: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  That said, what trouble are you having?
2021-06-06 02:02:23	_7Teen	import os
2021-06-06 02:02:24	_7Teen	import sys
2021-06-06 02:02:24	_7Teen	from pathlib import Path
2021-06-06 02:02:24	_7Teen	print (sys.argv)
2021-06-06 02:02:24	_7Teen	size = sys.argv[2]
2021-06-06 02:02:24	_7Teen	path = sys.argv[1]
2021-06-06 02:02:28	_7Teen	print(f'the path is {path}, and the size is {size}')
2021-06-06 02:02:30	_7Teen	for dirname, foldername, filename in os.walk(path):
2021-06-06 02:02:32	_7Teen	    for files in filename:
2021-06-06 02:02:34	_7Teen	        if Path(files).stat().st_size == size:
2021-06-06 02:02:36	_7Teen	            with open(os.path.join(dirname, files), 'r') as f:
2021-06-06 02:02:37	Tashtari	Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python
2021-06-06 02:02:38	_7Teen	                contents = f.read()
2021-06-06 02:02:40	_7Teen	                print(contents)
2021-06-06 02:03:49	_7Teen	@Tashtari i keep getting a FileNotFoundError
2021-06-06 02:04:54	Tashtari	When you stat the file, you're not joining the directory name to it.
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2021-06-06 02:07:25	_7Teen	look man im still learning so plz provide a possible solution so i can learn from my errors.
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2021-06-06 02:08:04	proteusguy	_7Teen, print out your joined file/path and you'll see you're missing something.
2021-06-06 02:08:17	proteusguy	That's how you learn from your errors.
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2021-06-06 02:09:57	Tashtari	_7Teen: Your variable 'files' is going to contain a filename without a path, that's why you use os.path.join to join the path name onto it.  You're doing that when you open the file for reading, but not when you stat it.
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2021-06-06 02:10:29	Tashtari	As such, when you stat the file, it's looking for a filename that could be anywhere on the filesystem in the current directory, and not finding it.
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2021-06-06 02:16:03	_7Teen	thanks alot @Tashtari.
2021-06-06 02:17:05	Tashtari	No worries.  Do note, though, that the channel has moved to libera.chat (https://libera.chat) and you should probably ask there next time.
2021-06-06 02:18:24	proteusguy	Tashtari, why tell people to go somewhere else and not just allow a community to be here as well? Why knock freenode's community? What's the point of being here just to tell people to go elsewhere?
2021-06-06 02:19:19	Tashtari	Well, generally speaking, as most of the active users have moved there already, the channel on libera is a lot more active and a lot more helpful.
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2021-06-06 02:20:12	proteusguy	You don't think it a bit distasteful to be in one house and tell everyone to go leave to someone else's house? Seems rude to me.
2021-06-06 02:20:32	Tashtari	When the owner of the house is okay with it and doing the same thing himself?  No.
2021-06-06 02:20:52	Tashtari	(I'm referring here to nedbat.)
2021-06-06 02:21:26	proteusguy	being an op is not being an owner... we're using freenode's service.
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2021-06-06 02:22:02	Tashtari	And most of the active users of the channel have decided that they'd rather not.
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2021-06-06 02:23:05	Tashtari	(Along with a great many channels and their active users.)
2021-06-06 02:23:09	proteusguy	that's completely fine for people to decide to do what they want. what's rude is using someone else's resources (which you aren't paying for) to promote their competition.
2021-06-06 02:23:49	proteusguy	It's like going onto an Apple channel and promoting Android products.
2021-06-06 02:23:51	--	death916_ is now known as death916
2021-06-06 02:24:11	Tashtari	I've said all I'm going to say.
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2021-06-06 03:09:32	rindolf	hi all
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2021-06-06 03:11:11	rindolf	nopony replies :(
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2021-06-06 03:15:59	proteusguy	howdy rindolf :-)
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2021-06-06 03:17:48	kosh	rindolf, the channel mover to libera.chat  https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-06-06 03:24:47	proteusguy	kosh, and yet there's still a channel here for people who want to stay...
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2021-06-06 03:25:08	proteusguy	so the channel didn't move... just a bunch of folks.
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2021-06-06 03:25:21	kosh	proteusguy, that doesn't change that the official channel has moved to libera.chat and that is where all the active people are
2021-06-06 03:25:34	kosh	proteusguy, this channel is controlled by the psf and it has officially moved to libera.chat
2021-06-06 03:25:54	kosh	you can stay here, nobody will force you to go but you will not get much python help here anymore
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2021-06-06 03:40:47	rindolf	proteusguy: so... emma watson is the latest word on terminators: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Terminator/Liberation/ongoing-text.html
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2021-06-06 03:43:31	rindolf	you dont want to mess with her but i'll let her mess w me any time
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2021-06-06 03:52:21	perdent	Is my my filtering of uploadable file extensions secure in my python code? https://bpa.st/KAKA
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2021-06-06 04:32:40	rindolf	perdent: use 'import re'
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2021-06-06 04:34:12	Wulf	perdent: why don't you use {"png", "jpg", "jpeg"} ?
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2021-06-06 04:53:06	rindolf	perdent: i'm reminded of the troll who had tried using C char fiddling routines to parse matrices?
2021-06-06 04:53:40	perdent	rindolf: huh?
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2021-06-06 04:54:27	perdent	Wulf: What difference would that make?
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2021-06-06 04:55:28	rindolf	perdent: i'm reminded of the troll on ##programming who had tried using C char fiddling routines to parse matrices. just use regular expressions
2021-06-06 04:56:33	rindolf	gift of the unix gods
2021-06-06 04:57:48	perdent	oh right yeah i see, yeah I suppose it would work, i just hate regex :P
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2021-06-06 05:01:18	rindolf	perdent: i used to hate python but now i love it: https://shlomifish.livejournal.com/1747.html
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2021-06-06 05:03:37	rindolf	perdent: 'spoonful of sugar': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4qauTiCY4
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2021-06-06 05:04:33	rindolf	gotta love julie andrews...
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2021-06-06 05:05:39	rindolf	that film is older than i am
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2021-06-06 05:15:22	rindolf	perdent: ping
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2021-06-06 05:26:53	Wulf	perdent: it looks cleaner.
2021-06-06 05:27:45	perdent	Wulf:  Ah okay thanks, but you dont notice any obvious security issues do you?
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2021-06-06 05:28:32	Wulf	perdent: I didn't check. Perhaps I will if you ask your question on libera again ;-)
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2021-06-06 06:15:47	SamuelMarks	hi
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2021-06-06 07:06:03	perdent	Wulf: the channel on freenode?
2021-06-06 07:06:15	perdent	I cant find your nick there
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2021-06-06 07:07:33	Wulf	perdent: https://libera.chat/
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2021-06-06 07:33:31	bioinfornatics	dear, I do not understand the `[:0]=` statement, here an example: https://bpa.st/R65A
2021-06-06 07:34:12	bioinfornatics	To my undersantdang the behaviour is close to the bash variable named IFS
2021-06-06 07:34:30	bioinfornatics	thanks for your insight
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2021-06-06 07:42:59	ChrisWarrick	bioinfornatics: it’s a bit of slicing abuse, what it does is add the contents of the string, one character at a time (since list('abc') == ['a', 'b', 'c']), at the start of the list
2021-06-06 07:44:45	nedbat	bioinfornatics: but they  could have replaced lines 2-4 with:  return list(a_str)
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2021-06-06 07:46:31	Wulf	bioinfornatics: It's more interesting if you do result = []; result[:0] = "bar"; result[:0] = "foo"
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2021-06-06 08:11:17	aw1	why does the __iter__ definition contain 'if 0: yield self' see class Puzzle towards the bottom of this page https://rhettinger.github.io/puzzle.html
2021-06-06 08:11:54	aw1	is that some sort of a hack to make it a generator?
2021-06-06 08:12:43	nedbat	aw1: yes
2021-06-06 08:13:11	aw1	i see. thanks nedbat
2021-06-06 08:13:24	nedbat	aw1: btw, we are mostly moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-06 08:14:38	aw1	nedbat, oh i was not aware. Let me check that out. thanks.
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2021-06-06 08:48:55	bioinfornatics	thanks ChrisWarrick and nedbat
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2021-06-06 08:50:07	bioinfornatics	indee Wulf is quite interesting :-)
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2021-06-06 11:37:05	borisrunak	would like to pd.read_csv/read_excel multiple files simultaneously, however this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6tPz45XndQ/ does not seem to boost my progress. Is there something wrong or any alternative way you could recommend?
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2021-06-06 11:38:01	nedbat	borisrunak: how large are these files? How long do they take to read?
2021-06-06 11:38:10	nedbat	borisrunak: also, btw, we've mostly moved to https://libera.chat
2021-06-06 11:38:44	borisrunak	if I do this sequentially it takes 30secs
2021-06-06 11:39:01	borisrunak	oh ok didn't know that #python moved also
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2021-06-06 11:39:41	habnabit_	borisrunak, we sure did
2021-06-06 11:40:11	borisrunak	btw any plans to integrate with matrix ?
2021-06-06 11:40:47	habnabit_	borisrunak, not officially, i don't think
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2021-06-06 11:41:06	borisrunak	☹️
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2021-06-06 11:46:34	net|	if libra was so good it would keep a bnc around and not spam other networks ?
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2021-06-06 11:47:13	nedbat	net|: i don't think it's clear who is spamming the other networks
2021-06-06 11:48:01	Tashtari	It surprises me the number of people who just assume that it's an official act by libera.chat
2021-06-06 11:48:06	net|	what about discord ?
2021-06-06 11:48:07	Tashtari	People need to not believe everything they read
2021-06-06 11:48:21	KirkMcDonald	There is a significant Python discord.
2021-06-06 11:48:22	net|	libra + discord might be something
2021-06-06 11:48:45	net|	discord needs a way to bnc irc servers
2021-06-06 11:49:04	Tashtari	Discord needs to stop banning third party clients, too.
2021-06-06 11:49:28	KirkMcDonald	Also it is "libera".
2021-06-06 11:49:46	net|	https://github.com/netpipe/cannachat i wrote this 3d irc client :)
2021-06-06 11:50:25	habnabit_	net|, discord is pretty anti-FOSS
2021-06-06 11:50:30	net|	irrlicht integration is still basic but the irc part seems to be working
2021-06-06 11:50:58	net|	its nice because the messages are still there when checking after
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2021-06-06 11:51:56	net|	i are there any good webbased irc clients that can connect to other servers ?
2021-06-06 11:52:46	Tashtari	Web IRC clients are usually provided specifically to connect to one network.  There is Glowing Bear, though, which is a web-based frontend to Weechat.
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2021-06-06 12:00:52	borisrunak	why not matrix if I may ask ?
2021-06-06 12:01:04	borisrunak	they have irc bridges and is very privacy centric
2021-06-06 12:01:56	borisrunak	https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/matrix-org-irc-bridge
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2021-06-06 12:07:24	KirkMcDonald	This is a matrix bridge to Libera, if that's your thing.
2021-06-06 12:08:09	habnabit_	borisrunak, it's far easier to sub one hostname for another in irc config than it is to launch a community on a new protocol
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2021-06-06 12:11:58	borisrunak	I am asking since discord has been mentioned
2021-06-06 12:12:07	KirkMcDonald	s/This is/There is/
2021-06-06 12:12:38	KirkMcDonald	The bridge is at #channel:libera.chat
2021-06-06 12:15:14	borisrunak	you mean for matrix KirkMcDonald ?
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2021-06-06 12:27:59	KirkMcDonald	borisrunak: Yes.
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2021-06-06 12:42:15	pacblinky	Hello
2021-06-06 12:42:47	nedbat	pacblinky: hey there
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2021-06-06 13:05:45	delariva	hello
2021-06-06 13:06:26	nedbat	delariva: hey there
2021-06-06 13:06:56	delariva	i have a question about dataclasses and setting default attributes of the grandparentclass in the parentclass so they dont have to be set in the childclass
2021-06-06 13:07:18	habnabit_	delariva, hi! we're all on libera.chat: https://www.python.org/community/irc/
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2021-06-06 13:08:55	delariva	i want to set the _information_type attribute in the AudioDataset class: https://paste.ofcode.org/35uzrMLyLNr379K9jXPgk3E
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2021-06-06 13:11:21	delariva	as is never instantiate the AudioDataset class when instantiating the PreprocessedDataset Class, i would have to write a def __init__(self,...) methode for the PreprocessedDataset class, which kind of defeats the purpose of the dataclass
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2021-06-06 13:12:26	delariva	like this def __post_init__(self):
2021-06-06 13:12:26	delariva	        self._information_type = "Audio Dataset"
2021-06-06 13:12:27	delariva	        self._category = "preprocessed"
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2021-06-06 13:13:28	delariva	in this case i wish the AudioDataset class to automatically set the self._information_type to "Audio Dataset"
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2021-06-06 13:15:12	delariva	but this does not work:
2021-06-06 13:15:27	delariva	class AudioDataset(Inf...):
2021-06-06 13:15:27	delariva	    _information_type = "Audio Dataset"
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2021-06-06 21:31:43	wender	Can I put another dicts inside a dict? Like `p=() \n p['name'] = 'wender' ... \n u = () u['wender'] = p`
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2021-06-06 21:32:07	wender	I would like to build a map like Java
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2021-06-06 21:37:19	nedbat	wender: yes, you can. Except it's `p = {}`.  also, we have mostly moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Topic for #python is "We are on Libera | Questions about the channel? https://www.pound-python.org | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | CoC: https://j.mp/psf-coc | Ops: #python-ops"
2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Topic set by nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) on Sat, 29 May 2021 15:05:18
2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Channel #python: 934 nicks (0 ops, 0 voices, 934 normals)
2021-06-07 18:09:24	--	Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:42:41
2021-06-07 18:09:46	--	Roey is now known as Rhyme-Warp
2021-06-07 18:10:00	rocky	i don't suppose there's a setuptools plugin or some alternative that knows that a new "python setup.py sdist" isn't required since the latest sdist is already in dist folder? it seems python setup.py sdist will rebuild it every time even if nothing has changed and embed timestamps or something somewhere that produces a different sha hash on the resulting tarball
2021-06-07 18:10:38	ChrisWarrick	stormbytes, RoadRunner, rocky: a better place for python questions would be the official python channel, #python on irc.libera.chat
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2021-06-07 18:46:57	RoadRunner	ChrisWarrick: so libera not freenode is the place for py discussions? is unregistered OK?
2021-06-07 18:47:07	ChrisWarrick	RoadRunner: you need to register
2021-06-07 18:47:19	nedbat	same as here
2021-06-07 18:47:58	RoadRunner	is it nickserv like on freenode or something else?
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2021-06-07 18:48:23	stormbytes	ChrisWarrick isn't this #python? What's the purpose of this channel if not to discuss python related stuff?
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2021-06-07 18:48:30	nedbat	RoadRunner: yup, nickserv, just like here.
2021-06-07 18:48:42	nedbat	stormbytes: that is the purpose of this channel, but more people are on libera
2021-06-07 18:48:49	ChrisWarrick	stormbytes: these days, the purpose of this channel is to direct people to libera
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2021-06-07 18:49:20	RoadRunner	what was the reason for the switch?
2021-06-07 18:49:35	nedbat	RoadRunner: there are some links on https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-07 18:49:55	stormbytes	how do you register for libera?
2021-06-07 18:50:24	stormbytes	getting this on libera:  Message(470): #python #python-unregistered Forwarding to another channel
2021-06-07 18:52:34	nedbat	stormbytes: https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-06-07 18:52:45	stormbytes	nedbat just got in, thx
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2021-06-07 20:26:05	RoadRunner	nedbat: registered and had registration confirmed after email but still can't seem to login to the channel on libera
2021-06-07 20:26:23	nedbat	RoadRunner: i don't know why that would be
2021-06-07 20:26:43	RoadRunner	just keep being put into unregistered...
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2021-06-07 20:35:06	oxek	RoadRunner: maybe you're not logged in?
2021-06-07 20:36:12	chrisawi	did you use a different nick? because RoadRunner isn't registered on libera
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2021-06-07 20:49:30	RoadRunner	chrisawi: yes, I registered a diff nick and was trying to login with it
2021-06-07 20:50:48	PantelicGR3	RoadRunner: Login using nickserv or SASL. And then join channels
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2021-06-07 20:51:54	RoadRunner	chrisawi:  PantelicGR3: the login command format was: /connect irc.libera.chat MyNick:MyPassword
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2021-06-07 20:54:17	RoadRunner	wrong syntax?
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2021-06-07 20:54:37	chrisawi	I think that will forward to nickserv and identify you, but if you're autojoining #python, it may be joining too early
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2021-06-07 20:55:09	chrisawi	the proper mechanism is SASL, not the server password
2021-06-07 20:55:29	chrisawi	anyway, if you can connect to libera, feel free to ask for help in #libera over there
2021-06-07 20:56:44	RoadRunner	I am connected to libera. If my comand syntax was wrong, how do I do it with sasl?
2021-06-07 20:56:58	PantelicGR3	RoadRunner: You may use SASL: https://libera.chat/guides/sasl
2021-06-07 20:57:21	PantelicGR3	And as chrisawi said you could join #libera for help.
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2021-06-08 00:41:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	using vs code is this place to ask about setting up a python environment
2021-06-08 00:43:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i would like it if i could wipe everything and setup a environment that i could backup
2021-06-08 00:43:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	or repoduse somehow er
2021-06-08 00:44:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i usually just start installing crap but then its not portable
2021-06-08 00:45:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	or is i spose to use conda or
2021-06-08 00:45:43	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	that jupiter thing
2021-06-08 00:46:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i want to be blae to debug and jetbrains is a lill steep learning but if its worth time i would switch
2021-06-08 00:47:21	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	want to maintain my own modules
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2021-06-08 00:48:13	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	does people use idle as main ide?
2021-06-08 00:49:39	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	main thing is virtualenv but seem to remember this isnt preferred anymore??
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2021-06-08 00:50:52	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	Python 3.9.1
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2021-06-08 01:00:08	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	like soem sort of thing and button create new venv, delete venv, add module. set venv path
2021-06-08 01:00:25	-->	phasetwo (~phasetwo@2600:8801:8c1c:f000:400:acf2:c2c4:c2ea) has joined #python
2021-06-08 01:00:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	makeing this way to hard to start over
2021-06-08 01:02:10	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it took me a half day to code waht i needed last time including learning python
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2021-06-08 01:02:18	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	this is prob gonna take a week
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2021-06-08 01:03:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	"Virtualenv is an awesome management tool for those that know their way around it. It's pretty simple, though it can be frustrating for beginners.
2021-06-08 01:03:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	"
2021-06-08 01:04:23	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	virtualenv it is even though it is gonna be fustrateng and hard to use
2021-06-08 01:04:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	furstrating
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2021-06-08 01:05:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	wait or virtualenvwrapper..
2021-06-08 01:05:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	and anaconda well i dont want to download that much
2021-06-08 01:07:12	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	but thats not going to work with py3
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2021-06-08 01:07:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	Warning: The 4.x release includes some potentially incompatible changes for extensions from 3.x.
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2021-06-08 01:07:50	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	fuck it
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2021-06-08 01:08:00	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	im going to try anyway
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2021-06-08 01:10:34	no_gravity	Good Morning!
2021-06-08 01:10:57	no_gravity	How do you name class files? If the file contains "class MyClass", do you put it in a file "MyClass.py"?
2021-06-08 01:11:20	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm this is nice...  temporary virtualenv via "mktmpenv"
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2021-06-08 01:12:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i dont no but dont worry theirs tons of helpfull people in here
2021-06-08 01:13:03	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	camel case is not pythonic but dunno if that applies to filenames
2021-06-08 01:15:27	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, w3 is your answer.
2021-06-08 01:15:28	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 01:15:32	Aaron	for all this questions
2021-06-08 01:15:34	Aaron	with answers
2021-06-08 01:15:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	awesome!  really?
2021-06-08 01:15:57	Aaron	no define not really
2021-06-08 01:15:58	Aaron	:X
2021-06-08 01:17:11	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah but i dont want to be taught i just want the fish!
2021-06-08 01:17:15	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
2021-06-08 01:17:35	Aaron	if you want the fish then you must have patience.
2021-06-08 01:17:37	Aaron	and not a jerk.
2021-06-08 01:17:52	<--	Thanatos (~Thanatos@197.210.29.79) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-08 01:17:58	Aaron	pardon my behavior.
2021-06-08 01:17:59	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ill remember taht
2021-06-08 01:18:15	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	if i ever think of becoming a jerk :)
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2021-06-08 01:18:54	Aaron	coding is so simple
2021-06-08 01:18:57	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	im maybe just going to make something with simply py gui to manage env
2021-06-08 01:18:59	Aaron	not the complexity of things
2021-06-08 01:19:03	Aaron	is when you are dealing with classes
2021-06-08 01:19:13	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	like when i have time i.e. not soon
2021-06-08 01:19:15	Aaron	and when you are dealing with different type of "DATA"
2021-06-08 01:19:40	Aaron	or libraries.
2021-06-08 01:19:51	Aaron	there all the same for pilots is a checklist.
2021-06-08 01:20:00	Aaron	for coders w3school or w3
2021-06-08 01:20:08	Aaron	I forgot the name.of it.
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2021-06-08 01:21:05	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ooh  i like lists
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2021-06-08 01:21:20	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i love checklists
2021-06-08 01:21:28	Aaron	then do a check list with python.
2021-06-08 01:21:28	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 01:21:44	Aaron	before you get to the GUI check the difference of how you import libraries and classes.
2021-06-08 01:22:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right, i just want to not make a mess then worry when i have to run on another system
2021-06-08 01:22:11	Aaron	and before that have at least some type of understanding the difference between a class variable, library classes and so on...
2021-06-08 01:22:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm
2021-06-08 01:22:33	Aaron	don't worry about so much about architecture
2021-06-08 01:23:03	Aaron	worry about your code runs good no errors with debugging and if you ever come or face a bug. Come to the right conclusion of closing the. BUG.
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2021-06-08 01:24:27	Aaron	and coding is all about expressions.
2021-06-08 01:24:34	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ok yes those are good hints thanks!
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2021-06-08 01:24:40	Aaron	and defining your expressions.
2021-06-08 01:24:56	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, and if you are a newbie stay away from any IDE.
2021-06-08 01:25:06	Aaron	that's for professional coders.
2021-06-08 01:25:29	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I was using that panda a lot so spent a lot of time learning just that thing
2021-06-08 01:25:43	Aaron	panda is amazing when you deal with graphs and such
2021-06-08 01:25:47	Aaron	and other type of datas....
2021-06-08 01:26:09	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	OK...  yeah pycharm had so much i just wasnt sure it would help
2021-06-08 01:26:18	Aaron	use nano
2021-06-08 01:26:23	Aaron	and run it with python
2021-06-08 01:26:27	Aaron	or VI
2021-06-08 01:26:32	Aaron	or whatever you like.
2021-06-08 01:26:59	-->	fedenix (~fedenix@gateway/tor-sasl/fedenix) has joined #python
2021-06-08 01:26:59	Aaron	and learn coding for at least 20 minutes of your time
2021-06-08 01:27:18	Aaron	and by the time you hit a. YEAR with your checklist. You will be advancing little by little.
2021-06-08 01:27:41	Aaron	and confusing your self with the different type of data you want to achieve or at least.
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2021-06-08 01:28:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i know i need to use panda and other modules....  is virtualenv
2021-06-08 01:28:15	Aaron	there is a million of that
2021-06-08 01:28:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah exactly i guess just pick one...
2021-06-08 01:28:31	Aaron	!google python vs virtualenv EN
2021-06-08 01:28:55	Aaron	What is the difference between venv, pyvenv, pyenv, virtualenv ...: <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41573587/what-is-the-difference-between-venv-pyvenv-pyenv-virtualenv-virtualenvwrappe>; Virtualenv and venv: Python virtual environments explained | InfoWorld: <https://www.infoworld.com/article/3239675/virtualenv-and-venv-python-virtual-environments-explained.html>; Python Environment 101. How are pyenv and pipenv
2021-06-08 01:29:32	Aaron	sorry for the such annoyance of texting.
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2021-06-08 01:30:32	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	thanks right ok there are more of those than imagined...
2021-06-08 01:31:34	Aaron	remember this about programming there is 1000000 of ways of getting to a point.
2021-06-08 01:31:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i thought that was PERL
2021-06-08 01:31:51	Aaron	everyone is different. Not because my code looks different from yours doesn't mean your wrong?
2021-06-08 01:31:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
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2021-06-08 01:32:20	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, no is not perl. is called DATA.
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2021-06-08 01:33:45	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	last bug I had was after a total rewrite and not sure how but would crash because of
2021-06-08 01:34:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	loop too many times or cannot remember the exact error message
2021-06-08 01:34:06	Aaron	that has to do a lot of versions of pythons
2021-06-08 01:34:08	Aaron	you run the code under
2021-06-08 01:34:17	Aaron	remember every python version is different.
2021-06-08 01:34:34	Aaron	not all code runs the same in different versions of pythons....
2021-06-08 01:35:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes i held off on using py til 3 became very widespread
2021-06-08 01:35:44	Aaron	so if you run the code on python3.7 if python releases the release 3.8 there is a lot of changes.
2021-06-08 01:35:47	Aaron	you have to read.
2021-06-08 01:35:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	oh great
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2021-06-08 01:36:32	Aaron	that
2021-06-08 01:36:44	Aaron	sorry that's how you keep up with technology.
2021-06-08 01:37:01	<--	akaWolf (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-08 01:37:23	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I think i wrote everything under 3.9.x..  i will read tho
2021-06-08 01:37:55	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	was thinking i would like to use module called "scheduler"
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2021-06-08 01:38:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	maybe schedule it called
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2021-06-08 01:38:50	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, how good are you with pip?
2021-06-08 01:39:01	Aaron	and installing things?
2021-06-08 01:39:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i need and use that all the time but rely on vs code to do its magic
2021-06-08 01:39:51	Aaron	just make sure if your coding under Linux don't be newbie enough to run anything with sudo or su.
2021-06-08 01:39:56	Aaron	that's all. I can say.
2021-06-08 01:40:00	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	not sure how to use from command line spose i should start from scratch and use it from cli
2021-06-08 01:40:22	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha yes i run everything as root user
2021-06-08 01:40:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	j/k
2021-06-08 01:40:29	Aaron	so this is why pycharm is not a good tool to learn coding
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2021-06-08 01:40:54	Aaron	because the pycharm will do it automatically.
2021-06-08 01:41:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	the #1 thing is showing cruft that I forget and need to delete
2021-06-08 01:41:16	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right :)
2021-06-08 01:41:20	Aaron	sky is the limit with coding.
2021-06-08 01:41:24	Aaron	and dealing with apis.
2021-06-08 01:41:58	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes that is my goal is interface api
2021-06-08 01:42:54	Aaron	just don't get discourage with other people opinion
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2021-06-08 01:43:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	but i modified it, fixed bug or 2, and ugh it seems to be messy unless i learn some sort of venv
2021-06-08 01:43:44	Aaron	the venv environment's is to limit you with the ROOT and sudo as well
2021-06-08 01:44:26	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm OK was not aware of that part
2021-06-08 01:44:27	Aaron	this is why even with pip do pip3 or pip install something --user
2021-06-08 01:44:34	Aaron	and don't do sudo pip install something
2021-06-08 01:44:48	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ahh
2021-06-08 01:44:48	<--	Thanatos (~Thanatos@102.91.4.149) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-08 01:44:53	Aaron	because that can create a great security concern
2021-06-08 01:44:59	Aaron	specially for the coder and the server.
2021-06-08 01:45:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	that is my first goal -- to make portable
2021-06-08 01:45:43	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hello world
2021-06-08 01:45:52	Aaron	WARNING 2021-06-08T01:26:13 The Google plugin search is deprecated since Google closed their public API and will be removed in a future release.
2021-06-08 01:46:05	Aaron	I wonder why...
2021-06-08 01:46:20	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	$$$?  not sure
2021-06-08 01:46:32	Aaron	don't know I am not google
2021-06-08 01:46:33	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 01:46:56	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	seem to take away the good stuff, google voice gone too
2021-06-08 01:47:25	Aaron	is a security concern
2021-06-08 01:47:26	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 01:47:28	Aaron	that is why
2021-06-08 01:47:36	Aaron	you don't want DATA leaking some where.... in bad hands.
2021-06-08 01:47:56	Aaron	this is how people steal your CC and stuff like that
2021-06-08 01:48:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes, turer words..
2021-06-08 01:48:03	Aaron	and identity...
2021-06-08 01:48:10	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	truer*
2021-06-08 01:48:24	Aaron	and hackers don't longer need a pin
2021-06-08 01:48:40	Aaron	to steal thousands of dollars and converting them to other type of currency
2021-06-08 01:48:40	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 01:48:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	*poof*
2021-06-08 01:48:53	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
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2021-06-08 01:51:22	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, that's why never connect in a Public wifi.
2021-06-08 01:51:24	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 01:51:27	Aaron	you will thanks me later.
2021-06-08 01:51:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ugh yes i remember this now....  here is where i left off:
2021-06-08 01:51:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	suggestion to use "pyenv + pyenv-virtualenvwrapper + poetry"
2021-06-08 01:52:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah surprising how long it took for wifi WPA2 hack to surface
2021-06-08 01:52:16	Aaron	read a little bit of debugging
2021-06-08 01:52:18	Aaron	under python
2021-06-08 01:52:23	Aaron	and see how that works.
2021-06-08 01:52:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right i guess it is the way
2021-06-08 01:52:56	Aaron	docs.python.org
2021-06-08 01:53:00	Aaron	has a lot of useful information.
2021-06-08 01:54:11	Aaron	and see the difference between running the code with python and running it under a debugging environment.
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2021-06-08 01:54:17	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	thanks yes...  plenty of good documentation is one thing i like so much
2021-06-08 01:54:36	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ill just make whatever the tutorial has for starters
2021-06-08 01:55:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	im going to re-write my api interface again anyway
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2021-06-08 01:55:42	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ok yeah read debugging**
2021-06-08 01:55:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	is that in there too?  :)
2021-06-08 01:55:55	Aaron	just when asking in something like IRC be humble and not a JERK.
2021-06-08 01:56:18	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	well it was over a minute and nobody said nothin
2021-06-08 01:56:26	Aaron	pdb
2021-06-08 01:56:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	sorry :)
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2021-06-08 01:56:37	Aaron	no not you.
2021-06-08 01:56:42	Aaron	just the rest ;X
2021-06-08 01:56:51	Aaron	when asking in a forum or IRC or any where you ask
2021-06-08 01:57:16	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ahh yes agreed
2021-06-08 01:57:36	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i probably asked in too much of a reddit style
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2021-06-08 01:59:35	Aaron	IRC is a very old client
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2021-06-08 01:59:38	Aaron	interface.
2021-06-08 01:59:44	Aaron	since the 90's
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2021-06-08 02:00:46	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right yes...  I used mIRC occasionally but most time ever spent on IRC in freenode
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2021-06-08 02:01:17	Aaron	lol mIRC I'm assuming windows?
2021-06-08 02:01:18	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 02:01:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes :)  not wine
2021-06-08 02:01:46	Aaron	oh okay.
2021-06-08 02:01:56	Aaron	I'm a Linux and Unix type of GUY...
2021-06-08 02:02:05	Aaron	not a Windows type of guy. I dislike dlls.
2021-06-08 02:02:52	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i hear you,
2021-06-08 02:03:28	Aaron	But I still love MIcrosoft Flight Simulator
2021-06-08 02:03:29	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I put Win10 Pro just for the upgrade to my retail licences
2021-06-08 02:03:30	Aaron	the new one...
2021-06-08 02:03:38	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ooh nice
2021-06-08 02:03:46	Aaron	and big fan of the XBOX
2021-06-08 02:03:49	Aaron	as well.
2021-06-08 02:04:19	Aaron	I was lucky enough that my Girlfriend give me the playstation 5.
2021-06-08 02:04:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ok haha nice one
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2021-06-08 02:05:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	liked twitch games so i haven't gamed much lol
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2021-06-08 02:05:58	Aaron	yeah or steam
2021-06-08 02:05:59	Aaron	lol
2021-06-08 02:06:10	<--	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-08 02:06:43	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	steam now you like?  I was not a fan when it came out
2021-06-08 02:06:57	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	wen hl3
2021-06-08 02:07:01	Aaron	is for pirates to make money
2021-06-08 02:07:01	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:07:08	Aaron	that's how I see stuff
2021-06-08 02:07:42	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha yes...  i can respect what it became
2021-06-08 02:07:50	Aaron	is like this is funny every time I purchase a song with apple music and let's say I use it on my videos in instagram or whatever other platform they BAN it because of policies and such more lies.
2021-06-08 02:08:14	Aaron	and label lies
2021-06-08 02:08:20	Aaron	to make extra 10 cents
2021-06-08 02:08:27	Aaron	to squeeze out of you. lol
2021-06-08 02:08:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right, they should be happy to gain any sort of extra exposure
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2021-06-08 02:09:55	Aaron	I'm not sure how is this affected by the ARTIST but that's how technology has become to sence of making or squeezing a penny out of you.
2021-06-08 02:10:48	Aaron	The artist is not worried about how many people can accept for a post in instagram facebook or other platforms.
2021-06-08 02:10:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	game industry marketcap is probably gonna 10x any time now
2021-06-08 02:10:55	Aaron	the artist worries about his pay check
2021-06-08 02:11:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	we aint seen nothing yet imho
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2021-06-08 02:12:29	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	gotta be a legal problem distributing (c)
2021-06-08 02:12:42	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	but it should be relaxed
2021-06-08 02:13:14	Aaron	it was the same stupid question
2021-06-08 02:13:18	Aaron	when kazaa and napster
2021-06-08 02:13:25	Aaron	got suited by the big corporations
2021-06-08 02:13:45	Aaron	that was stupid of them. to have had create it a lawsuit against the CODERS OF the program.
2021-06-08 02:13:52	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha yeah kazaa what ever happen to that
2021-06-08 02:14:05	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, blame apple music
2021-06-08 02:14:08	Aaron	and the labels;X
2021-06-08 02:14:13	Aaron	for crying so much about money.
2021-06-08 02:14:30	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	that was fairly awesome but short-lived
2021-06-08 02:14:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah
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2021-06-08 02:14:50	Aaron	don't ever write a program
2021-06-08 02:14:53	Aaron	with PGP key
2021-06-08 02:14:58	Aaron	if you don't know what PGP means.
2021-06-08 02:15:19	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it means Joe Biden will hunt you down?
2021-06-08 02:15:30	Aaron	read what it means
2021-06-08 02:15:35	Aaron	and you'll be the judge
2021-06-08 02:15:36	Aaron	of that.
2021-06-08 02:15:42	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	Joe from 1995 ish :)
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2021-06-08 02:16:19	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it was issue of national security back then though
2021-06-08 02:17:10	Aaron	just don't download anything from github and expect there not keeping some type of BUG;
2021-06-08 02:17:10	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:17:33	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 02:17:35	Aaron	people always fight about
2021-06-08 02:17:40	Aaron	Privacy and NO PRIVACY
2021-06-08 02:17:45	Aaron	so you tell me what's good and what's bad.
2021-06-08 02:17:46	Aaron	;)
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2021-06-08 02:19:45	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I have never read anything about that Edward Snowden.
2021-06-08 02:20:32	Aaron	PGP is a like your finger print from your hand for coders.
2021-06-08 02:20:44	Aaron	who ever encrypt and decrypt it has to be with a password.
2021-06-08 02:20:52	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I heard about something like he said information is being collected on large scale or something.. ?
2021-06-08 02:20:54	Aaron	not dictionary attacks is something new coming up ;X
2021-06-08 02:20:59	Aaron	*now
2021-06-08 02:21:18	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, remember garbage files don't lie
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2021-06-08 02:21:18	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 02:22:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	interesting
2021-06-08 02:22:34	Aaron	REMEMBER VPNS we're made for a reason.
2021-06-08 02:22:41	Aaron	and that's to catch hackers in lies.
2021-06-08 02:22:41	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:22:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i always thought it was a bad idea to use the internet to connect to connect to a bank and stuff
2021-06-08 02:23:08	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, don't ever use a bank without HTTPS
2021-06-08 02:23:22	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe
2021-06-08 02:23:24	Aaron	because http are very easy to manipulate
2021-06-08 02:23:30	Aaron	or code ;X
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2021-06-08 02:24:10	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, Now I asked you how well protect it is your google data?
2021-06-08 02:24:10	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i used to dialup to my bank :)
2021-06-08 02:24:11	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:24:13	<--	Allegretto_ (~allegrett@91-83-2-215.pool.digikabel.hu) has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-06-08 02:24:20	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, let me call you then :X
2021-06-08 02:24:22	Aaron	it happen to me
2021-06-08 02:24:23	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:24:53	Aaron	this is how smart criminals think they get.
2021-06-08 02:24:54	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:25:18	Aaron	but at the end they will still get caught and brought to a court of law.
2021-06-08 02:25:22	Aaron	with logs of everything ;X
2021-06-08 02:26:10	Aaron	is all about ethics and who's right and who's wrong.
2021-06-08 02:26:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	if you can make a quick buck though...  :-)
2021-06-08 02:26:59	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i think thats the mentality
2021-06-08 02:27:25	Aaron	quick buck is always ended up in a court of law.
2021-06-08 02:27:25	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:27:29	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 02:27:45	Aaron	so try to plan your future ahead.
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2021-06-08 02:29:44	Aaron	People are willing to plan something like robbing a person. But yet they cannot plan for a better future meaning studies school degrees.
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2021-06-08 02:30:13	Aaron	that is how people really have money unless your parents have BILLIONS or MILLIONS then is a different story.
2021-06-08 02:30:53	Aaron	and remember at the END lawenforcement wins they win with a prison sentence. and then they don't like prison they start snitching out everyone.
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2021-06-08 02:33:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it is amazing the plans people come up with
2021-06-08 02:33:23	Aaron	here in. America is scary to even watch the news without hearing a shooting victim.
2021-06-08 02:33:41	Aaron	or someone who got killed by cops it gets boring lol
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2021-06-08 02:34:55	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right...  thats what i was thinking like i was watching CourtTV for a couple weeks but
2021-06-08 02:35:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	its frightening
2021-06-08 02:35:35	Aaron	indeed
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2021-06-08 02:35:36	Aaron	;(
2021-06-08 02:35:45	Aaron	this is why I come out with my .40 all the time.
2021-06-08 02:35:53	Aaron	and my 556 in the back :X
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2021-06-08 02:36:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	heh right it makes me thinking same
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2021-06-08 02:36:58	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	with training and all that but yeah crazy people
2021-06-08 02:37:07	Aaron	you saw the story
2021-06-08 02:37:16	Aaron	of that lebanon girl who when crazy on the youtube coders
2021-06-08 02:37:25	Aaron	because she lost some type of revenue with her account?
2021-06-08 02:37:26	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm i dont think so
2021-06-08 02:37:32	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ooh
2021-06-08 02:37:33	Aaron	google search that pleace
2021-06-08 02:37:33	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:37:58	Aaron	and you'll read how shady people are when it comes to dealing with currency/
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2021-06-08 02:42:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	what did she violate TOS and get suspended?
2021-06-08 02:42:52	Aaron	no
2021-06-08 02:42:59	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	not finding
2021-06-08 02:43:01	Aaron	nenw google policies and money revenue
2021-06-08 02:43:02	Aaron	and so on
2021-06-08 02:43:07	Aaron	one sec
2021-06-08 02:44:17	Aaron	Nasim Najafi Aghdam
2021-06-08 02:44:30	Aaron	gThe shooter was identified as 38-year-old Nasim Najafi Aghdam, who entered through an exterior parking garage, approached an outdoor patio, and opened fire with a Smith & Wesson 9 mm semi-automatic pistol.
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2021-06-08 02:44:48	Aaron	and after the attack she killed her self.
2021-06-08 02:45:09	Aaron	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting
2021-06-08 02:45:10	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ooh yes
2021-06-08 02:45:38	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i don't get it really didnt content creators see it coming :)
2021-06-08 02:45:50	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	they were gonna get rugpulled
2021-06-08 02:46:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	no yeah that story wth
2021-06-08 02:46:38	Aaron	who ever though coders had to be running for there life
2021-06-08 02:46:57	Aaron	that day this is how scary everything is now days
2021-06-08 02:47:11	Aaron	back in the good old days. Fighting was me and you hitting each other in the face.
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2021-06-08 02:47:47	Aaron	now who takes out the biggest gun...
2021-06-08 02:48:04	Aaron	is crazy how people change cultures, religions, politics, and so on.
2021-06-08 02:48:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha right..  I actually need to read to see what her beef was but obviously no need to open fire
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2021-06-08 02:49:35	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, go to youtube.com
2021-06-08 02:49:40	Aaron	and just see the pictures and story
2021-06-08 02:49:40	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:49:42	Aaron	is there
2021-06-08 02:50:00	<--	SpinTronix (~SpinTroni@HSI-KBW-091-089-020-221.hsi2.kabelbw.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-08 02:51:03	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	she was vegan -- that expalins it
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2021-06-08 02:51:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
2021-06-08 02:51:21	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah she seemed calm with officer ealrier
2021-06-08 02:51:54	Aaron	Yeah lol
2021-06-08 02:52:02	Aaron	she play the guessing game right
2021-06-08 02:52:37	kosh	people are extremely attached to influencer jobs and take it badly when they go away
2021-06-08 02:52:55	kosh	small changes in algorithms or people's taste can destroy it and often people don't have alternatives
2021-06-08 02:53:14	<--	aLeSD (~aLeSD@139.47.114.114) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-08 02:53:30	Aaron	this is why my free time I spend in church and drumming away
2021-06-08 02:53:40	Aaron	if not too busy then I'll go flying on a cessna or Piper
2021-06-08 02:54:00	--	Seto_Kaiba is now known as Hunterkll
2021-06-08 02:54:22	kosh	However I also understand why people are so attached to them, it gives them a way to make a viable living and those ways have become rarer
2021-06-08 02:54:42	kosh	as more and more money is accumulated by fewer people
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2021-06-08 02:55:24	kosh	people are much more productive than in the past, it is just that they get a far smaller precentage of the value they create than they used to
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2021-06-08 02:56:06	Aaron	kosh, agree ;)
2021-06-08 02:56:23	Aaron	look what twitter and facebook did to trump
2021-06-08 02:56:36	kosh	should have banned him earlier
2021-06-08 02:56:43	kosh	along with LOTS of other people
2021-06-08 02:56:47	Aaron	is sickening but is the truth. We America don't have the FREEDOM OF SPEECH ANY LONGER...
2021-06-08 02:57:03	kosh	politicians should be held to the same standard or higher as anyone else on these platforms
2021-06-08 02:57:10	Aaron	And I don't want to blame anyone because those are not my intentions.
2021-06-08 02:57:14	kosh	freedom of speech has nothing to do with it
2021-06-08 02:57:39	Aaron	Remember if something is call classified
2021-06-08 02:57:41	Aaron	stay away from it
2021-06-08 02:57:45	Aaron	and don't be noisy
2021-06-08 02:57:46	Aaron	;)
2021-06-08 02:58:07	kosh	freedom of speech has to do with the government placing restrictions on your speech
2021-06-08 02:58:29	kosh	from the beginning companies could always impose limits on their property
2021-06-08 02:58:35	Aaron	you tell me I belong to the Rangers 75 regiment ;X
2021-06-08 02:58:47	Aaron	Been there done that and I've moved on;
2021-06-08 02:58:47	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 02:59:29	kosh	we have had politicians write on social media that other people should have their heads cut off and mounted on pikes in front of the whitehouse
2021-06-08 02:59:32	Aaron	now we see a lot of stolen valors
2021-06-08 02:59:39	Aaron	even on real life and in the Internet.
2021-06-08 02:59:41	kosh	if any normal person wrote that their account would have been suspended immediately
2021-06-08 02:59:53	kosh	by politicians keep their accounts because of a public interest idea
2021-06-08 02:59:58	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	gets (back to) platform vs publisher -- pick one
2021-06-08 02:59:59	Aaron	that people lie saying they been to. Germany, Italy, and so on...
2021-06-08 03:00:16	kosh	and the problem that creates is a lot more division
2021-06-08 03:00:24	kosh	Aaron, I am living in Germany right now
2021-06-08 03:00:30	Aaron	LoL
2021-06-08 03:00:35	Aaron	I know Germany
2021-06-08 03:00:35	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:00:48	Aaron	Is my play ground ;X
2021-06-08 03:00:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	if you are a publisher you get to ban people because you are liable
2021-06-08 03:01:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	100
2021-06-08 03:01:03	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, that doesn't work, and laws where created because it wasn't working
2021-06-08 03:01:04	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, look at the stupid example of Cuba
2021-06-08 03:01:06	Aaron	and the Internet
2021-06-08 03:01:09	Aaron	and the communism
2021-06-08 03:01:17	Aaron	and let me ask you has that solved any problems for them?
2021-06-08 03:01:18	Aaron	no?
2021-06-08 03:01:35	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, we had forums related to cooking where people constantly posted other topics, shouldn't it be okay to remove those?
2021-06-08 03:01:39	Aaron	a World without LAWS. People would die in masses.
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2021-06-08 03:01:48	kosh	forums could not survive because they where swarmed with garbage
2021-06-08 03:01:53	Aaron	is always good to have a place where there is always Rules and people who obey the laws and rules.
2021-06-08 03:02:22	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	should not affect our way of life
2021-06-08 03:02:23	kosh	CDA 230 was created before social media existed to allow forums and things like that to work
2021-06-08 03:03:03	Aaron	kosh, what do you think of microchip technology vs THE MARK OF THE BEAST?
2021-06-08 03:03:35	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, if you have a subreddit related to X topic should it be okay to remote all posts not related to X topic?
2021-06-08 03:03:40	kosh	remove
2021-06-08 03:03:48	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	a publisher has operating expenses, it is not going to magicALLY SELF REGULATE
2021-06-08 03:03:51	kosh	Aaron, no idea what you are talking about?
2021-06-08 03:03:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	OOPS caps
2021-06-08 03:03:57	Aaron	science is willing to LIE and people are willing to pay TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. for some moron scientific playing the roll, of. God and saying oh Yeah I have the technology to clone a mammuth.
2021-06-08 03:04:30	Aaron	https://www.microchip.com/ = one world order.
2021-06-08 03:04:32	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:04:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	but if it is a platform then be willing to operate a platform
2021-06-08 03:04:43	kosh	it would take some work but cloning a mammoth would not be that hard, we have cloned other animals, the problem is mammoths don't have a viable ecosystem anymore
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2021-06-08 03:05:07	Aaron	instead of spending millions of dollars in those things...
2021-06-08 03:05:14	Aaron	why don't they at least waste there money in the UFOS?
2021-06-08 03:05:21	Aaron	and why the UFOS are so secretive.
2021-06-08 03:05:30	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, topical areas have to have the ability to remove things that are not on topic or you just don't have conversations anymore
2021-06-08 03:05:43	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it is not social medias fault either, there were always 100s of ways to communicate
2021-06-08 03:06:10	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	platform vs publisher
2021-06-08 03:06:13	kosh	my personal view is that politicians should not be allowed to use social media in any official capacity
2021-06-08 03:06:22	Aaron	Agree
2021-06-08 03:06:32	Aaron	or religion leader as well.
2021-06-08 03:06:36	Aaron	cause those are the worse.
2021-06-08 03:06:37	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:07:08	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, these rules where created because things like cooking forums had a problem where if they removed off topic posts they became liable for all remaining posts and if they missed a single one they could be in serious trouble
2021-06-08 03:07:13	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	may have point about elected officials
2021-06-08 03:07:17	Aaron	or coders trying to play the ROLL of. GOD.
2021-06-08 03:07:20	Aaron	with there bans
2021-06-08 03:07:37	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, so laws where changed to allow them to remove posts against the rules without becoming liable for any they missed
2021-06-08 03:07:53	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	kosh why in the world would you publish anything from rando users though
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2021-06-08 03:08:07	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	and operate as a publisher
2021-06-08 03:08:13	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, forums existed so that people could discuss things
2021-06-08 03:08:18	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, how do you think github works?
2021-06-08 03:08:49	-->	wender (~Wender@189.37.64.12) has joined #python
2021-06-08 03:09:03	kosh	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, or reddit or any of the discourse forums
2021-06-08 03:09:21	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	forums should be platforms since they cannot be effectively moderated
2021-06-08 03:09:39	Aaron	 kosh so we can steal hackers tools for free
2021-06-08 03:09:39	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:09:39	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	most forums are moderated by unpaid volunteers
2021-06-08 03:09:48	kosh	moderators remove all the crap they find because otherwise people stop participating
2021-06-08 03:09:57	kosh	but stuff gets missed
2021-06-08 03:10:03	<--	ron77 (~ron77@IGLD-80-230-93-244.inter.net.il) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-08 03:10:05	kosh	should they become liable because they missed stuff?
2021-06-08 03:10:05	Aaron	and then re writing some API saying its ours.
2021-06-08 03:10:06	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:10:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	China is good at that
2021-06-08 03:11:00	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	a publisher is liable, platforms are not but I don't know much more about
2021-06-08 03:11:00	Aaron	china can kiss my ass with the COVID 19 pandemic virus
2021-06-08 03:11:07	Aaron	who tried to wipe the whole world.
2021-06-08 03:11:08	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it seems cut and dried
2021-06-08 03:11:17	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 03:11:35	Aaron	and make it look like it was a virus.
2021-06-08 03:11:36	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:11:42	kosh	china still requires that users posts are removed
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2021-06-08 03:11:55	kosh	and if something is missed it gets removed
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2021-06-08 03:12:04	Aaron	trust me if someones saves a post
2021-06-08 03:12:09	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	they do?
2021-06-08 03:12:10	Aaron	in this case some .html then
2021-06-08 03:12:15	Aaron	they can re upload it ;X
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2021-06-08 03:12:18	Aaron	as a new change.
2021-06-08 03:12:21	<--	computeiro (~Wender@189.37.67.7) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-06-08 03:12:34	Aaron	and that's how you by pass technology
2021-06-08 03:12:35	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:12:41	kosh	mostly likely what happened is that gain of function research was happening with coronavirus and it accidentally got out
2021-06-08 03:12:58	kosh	gain of function research is fairly common
2021-06-08 03:13:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it is a slippery slope, you ban politicians they pay someone to Tweet
2021-06-08 03:13:09	Aaron	kosh, don't sugar code things .:X
2021-06-08 03:13:13	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	forget banning everything you dont like
2021-06-08 03:13:15	Aaron	they tried to kill the whole world.
2021-06-08 03:13:29	kosh	Aaron, I am saying the most likely thing to have happened, I don't think anyone actually tried
2021-06-08 03:13:30	Aaron	and that's how Americans saw it...
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2021-06-08 03:13:55	Aaron	and this is the reason why everyone hates Chinese in America
2021-06-08 03:13:55	kosh	Aaron, very few american's see it that way based on polls
2021-06-08 03:13:58	Aaron	because of the COVID;
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2021-06-08 03:14:31	Aaron	kosh, if you don't live in America then your comment is well documented like Google.
2021-06-08 03:14:31	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:14:45	kosh	Aaron, it looks like dangerous research was happening on in a lab partially funded by american money and chinese money on gain of function research with inadequate safety
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2021-06-08 03:15:03	Aaron	kosh, don't blame Americans.
2021-06-08 03:15:10	Aaron	for the messed of the Chinese morons.
2021-06-08 03:15:13	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	not sure anyone knows everything about this pandemic :-)
2021-06-08 03:15:19	kosh	Aaron, I still have all my family members in the usa, they think the same thing happened
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2021-06-08 03:15:36	kosh	I will probably still be going back to the usa at the end of the year
2021-06-08 03:15:46	Aaron	kosh, well me as a Citizen and not only a Citizen but as a Ranger didn't see it like that;
2021-06-08 03:15:52	Aaron	I can assure you of that.
2021-06-08 03:15:52	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:16:08	kosh	what you see depends on where you live and what news you look at
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2021-06-08 03:16:21	Aaron	Not really
2021-06-08 03:16:24	Aaron	is call reality
2021-06-08 03:16:24	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:16:44	kosh	just look at how many people believe trump is still president and that he won the election and that there was no attack on the capital on jan 6
2021-06-08 03:16:49	Aaron	https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/why_are_asian_americans_being_attacked_and_what_can_you_do_about_it
2021-06-08 03:16:51	kosh	there are a lot of idiots
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2021-06-08 03:17:13	Aaron	read that post coming from a berkeley Idiot.
2021-06-08 03:17:14	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:19:15	kosh	I don't see anything wrong with that article
2021-06-08 03:19:20	rindolf	D4RKR4Z0R-Z: i think covid is a hoax directed at me
2021-06-08 03:19:43	Aaron	kosh, well people in America are hatting Chinese because of the COVID. I am not one of those idiots.
2021-06-08 03:19:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	rindolf, it is all about perspective!
2021-06-08 03:19:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:-_)
2021-06-08 03:20:01	kosh	Aaron, some people are, they are the extreme minority
2021-06-08 03:20:19	kosh	Aaron, most don't like the Chinese government for much more practical reasons but don't have normal Chinese people
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2021-06-08 03:20:45	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	if you read that all inequality was eradicated finally through legislation would you believe it?
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2021-06-08 03:21:04	Aaron	Look at the perfect example why White cops killed black people?
2021-06-08 03:21:07	-->	psyxopompos (~psyxopomp@unaffiliated/psyxo) has joined #python
2021-06-08 03:21:09	Aaron	thinking they are all criminals
2021-06-08 03:21:12	Aaron	because you are black?
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2021-06-08 03:21:58	Aaron	I feel bad for the black race suffer enough with Slavery now you have to look out for police because they are willing to kill you
2021-06-08 03:22:06	Aaron	and no one can do anything about it...
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2021-06-08 03:22:53	Aaron	kosh, is like Adolf Hitler not only he was half JEWISH but he hated the JEWISH Because he got turn down in some art class ;X
2021-06-08 03:22:58	Aaron	that's how stupid people can be...
2021-06-08 03:23:31	kosh	police kill a lot of people and rarely are actually held responsible for their actions
2021-06-08 03:23:39	-->	Furai (~Furai@2001:41d0:8:e3c0::1) has joined #python
2021-06-08 03:23:47	Aaron	then why are you talking shit about trump?
2021-06-08 03:23:54	kosh	america has some of the worst police in the world
2021-06-08 03:24:05	Aaron	if your not even an American citizen.
2021-06-08 03:24:06	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:24:21	Aaron	how dare you;
2021-06-08 03:24:24	kosh	you have better jobs of survival being taken by military police or the national guard
2021-06-08 03:24:32	kosh	I am an american citizen
2021-06-08 03:24:42	Aaron	are you?
2021-06-08 03:24:43	kosh	I lived there almost my entire life, I am living in germany working on a phd
2021-06-08 03:24:43	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	the problem with statistics is not that they are lies its because they do not change peoples opinion
2021-06-08 03:24:59	Aaron	oh I go to Germany to my Military Base
2021-06-08 03:25:01	Aaron	and I run it ;X
2021-06-08 03:25:05	Aaron	as an American
2021-06-08 03:25:05	Aaron	<3
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2021-06-08 03:25:27	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	cops in America are not "some of the worst" in the world holy crap.
2021-06-08 03:25:45	Aaron	me as a Military Man
2021-06-08 03:25:46	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	Where would you rather be arrested for being a suspect in a felony
2021-06-08 03:25:50	Aaron	I only Speak about the Military.
2021-06-08 03:25:56	Aaron	but cops now days are little girls
2021-06-08 03:25:59	Aaron	with badges
2021-06-08 03:25:59	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 03:26:03	Aaron	afraid of the criminals.
2021-06-08 03:26:19	Aaron	and Running away from them :X
2021-06-08 03:26:32	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	if you resist arrest you gonna find out quickly its not to smart
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2021-06-08 03:27:14	Aaron	this is the moment when your Lawyer will tell you to shut the hell up UNTIL PROVEN IN A court of LAW.
2021-06-08 03:27:15	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 03:28:44	Aaron	and if you cannot to the time don't do the crime lmfao
2021-06-08 03:29:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	do away with poverty and things will be a whole lot better
2021-06-08 03:30:32	-->	admin124 (~My_real_n@ool-2f12f6cb.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #python
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2021-06-08 03:30:53	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i cannot tell you how to do that other than educashening ones self
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2021-06-08 03:31:59	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	or something :)
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2021-06-08 03:32:26	Aaron	people have excused for everything
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2021-06-08 03:32:46	<--	mnemonicj (~mnemonicj@208.110.121.49.ciktel-dhcp.cipherkey.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-06-08 03:33:10	Aaron	but when they're facing a judge in a court of law or a jury Will see how big of a man you are;
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2021-06-08 03:33:23	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes, victims everyone!
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2021-06-08 03:33:53	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	in the greatest time of opportunity
2021-06-08 03:34:07	Aaron	lol ;X
2021-06-08 03:34:40	Aaron	that's when they're in Prison crying like a little girl because there cellmate is some 6'7 FT CELL MATE. ;X
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2021-06-08 03:35:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hopefully good at making friends
2021-06-08 03:37:08	Aaron	lol
2021-06-08 03:37:27	Aaron	just learn to fight
2021-06-08 03:37:40	Aaron	and using different ways of owing someone bigger then you.
2021-06-08 03:37:57	Aaron	and how not to panic
2021-06-08 03:39:17	-->	carl- (~carl-@c-138ee555.02-180-73746f39.bbcust.telenor.se) has joined #python
2021-06-08 03:39:34	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	fairly confident that I am not a good fighter
2021-06-08 03:40:06	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	and that I would panic :-)
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2021-06-08 04:05:34	Aaron	<D4RKR4Z0R-Z> you around?
2021-06-08 04:05:56	<--	hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ptewusdkyeumfatg) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-08 04:06:06	-->	Anas__G (~Thunderbi@196.203.67.2) has joined #python
2021-06-08 04:06:09	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yes, just created a venv -- woohoo
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2021-06-08 04:06:28	Aaron	look
2021-06-08 04:06:31	Aaron	at this example
2021-06-08 04:06:37	Aaron	and I will tell you how evil people are
2021-06-08 04:07:16	Aaron	https://github.com/ncorbuk
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2021-06-08 04:07:21	Aaron	read his projects
2021-06-08 04:07:21	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 04:08:22	Aaron	now tell me why you think he wrote it?
2021-06-08 04:08:24	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	cept 'where python' showing 3 diff places
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2021-06-08 04:08:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm
2021-06-08 04:08:56	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	oh wow yeah that seems like a great repo lol
2021-06-08 04:09:47	Aaron	is it?
2021-06-08 04:09:48	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 04:11:39	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	he could be writing stuff that is useful i dunno
2021-06-08 04:11:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:-)
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2021-06-08 04:12:03	Aaron	https://github.com/ncorbuk/Python-Tutorial---Hunt-Down-Social-Media-Accounts-by-Usernames-for-Open-Source-Intelligence-
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2021-06-08 04:12:07	Aaron	read that
2021-06-08 04:12:28	Aaron	and why the hell would you be hunting down social medias accounts?
2021-06-08 04:12:39	Aaron	if you're not a cop?
2021-06-08 04:12:43	Aaron	or someone normal?
2021-06-08 04:12:55	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right i dunno...  i dont have a fb logon
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2021-06-08 04:14:02	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	marketing data
2021-06-08 04:14:02	Aaron	just follow his examples ;X
2021-06-08 04:14:45	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm...  i mean i used beautifulsoup once
2021-06-08 04:15:20	Aaron	remember on his mind.
2021-06-08 04:15:24	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	html module works fine
2021-06-08 04:15:25	Aaron	he thinks he won't get caught ;X
2021-06-08 04:15:38	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	is he looking for collaboration?
2021-06-08 04:16:26	Aaron	not really
2021-06-08 04:16:29	Aaron	he's saying how easy
2021-06-08 04:16:32	Aaron	is to steal
2021-06-08 04:16:34	Aaron	your information onlie
2021-06-08 04:16:36	Aaron	*online
2021-06-08 04:16:46	Aaron	and how easy is to brake some type of attack;X
2021-06-08 04:17:15	Aaron	    PayPal: https://paypal.me/w3w3w3
2021-06-08 04:17:15	Aaron	    Bitcoin: 1EHmioBmujNAyVs5A6Uo1nfto9JZhGBDLd
2021-06-08 04:17:19	Aaron	lmfao
2021-06-08 04:19:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i think this might be him too lol https://community.nowtv.com/t5/Account-Offers-Promotions/Going-to-be-2-3-days-late-on-payment-this-month/td-p/483097
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2021-06-08 04:27:39	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	this venv is all i need...  dunno how it will end up working with vs code but meh
2021-06-08 04:27:50	Aaron	and remember
2021-06-08 04:27:55	Aaron	on His mind
2021-06-08 04:27:58	Aaron	he won't get caught ;X
2021-06-08 04:28:12	Aaron	But who's the bigger moron the hacker or the victim?
2021-06-08 04:28:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha yeah he is prolific not sure what is on his mind
2021-06-08 04:28:43	Aaron	or the goverment agency who pays you to chase losers like this.
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2021-06-08 04:30:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right well he could be using his time more effectively :)
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2021-06-08 04:30:53	Aaron	I guess in getting a girl friend;X
2021-06-08 04:30:59	Aaron	or teaching some ABCS of python
2021-06-08 04:31:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	haha yes...
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2021-06-08 04:32:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i think im going for broke here and installing PySimpleGUI
2021-06-08 04:32:15	Aaron	and all the TORS and vpn and all those we're create it for a reason.
2021-06-08 04:32:28	Aaron	for people wanting to be hidden. to be more easy to find
2021-06-08 04:32:29	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 04:32:52	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i had a nice interface going with that asi recall :p
2021-06-08 04:33:17	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah i dont get people insisting on vpn, tor
2021-06-08 04:33:29	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i mean you dont know the operators.
2021-06-08 04:33:32	Aaron	is thinking they can outsmart the goverment
2021-06-08 04:33:32	Aaron	;X
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2021-06-08 04:33:54	Aaron	which is funny ;X
2021-06-08 04:34:06	Aaron	because we americans play DUMB:X
2021-06-08 04:34:30	Aaron	and just see how much information we can gather before being compromise ;X
2021-06-08 04:35:35	Aaron	I wonder if there is so much technology how come law enforcement doesn't know about it?
2021-06-08 04:35:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 04:35:57	Aaron	because they're the ones behind it ;X
2021-06-08 04:36:12	Aaron	and that's how they keep anonymous :X
2021-06-08 04:36:16	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	tor exit nodes they must be mystery
2021-06-08 04:36:31	Aaron	not really ;X
2021-06-08 04:36:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
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2021-06-08 04:37:32	Aaron	Remember admins want money ;X
2021-06-08 04:37:33	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	how much damn bandwidth would it consume lol yeah im sure it is some random dudes cable modem
2021-06-08 04:37:45	Aaron	so if you offer them 1,000 us DOLLARS they will show you all type of logs.
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2021-06-08 04:38:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	heh all you need is warrent
2021-06-08 04:38:39	Aaron	many people here don't know about reverse dns but yet they're the IRC GODS ;X
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2021-06-08 04:40:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	well its tech so nobody understands better
2021-06-08 04:40:58	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
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2021-06-08 04:41:01	Aaron	lol
2021-06-08 04:41:07	-->	bamdad (~bamdad@gateway/tor-sasl/bamdad) has joined #python
2021-06-08 04:41:08	Aaron	just like binary coding ;X
2021-06-08 04:41:12	Aaron	000000000 and 11111111111
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2021-06-08 04:41:49	Aaron	have fun trying to figure out binary Numbers ;X
2021-06-08 04:42:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	my compiler though!  i have full control and i had my source code audited!
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2021-06-08 04:42:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	;)
2021-06-08 04:42:51	Aaron	lol
2021-06-08 04:42:57	Aaron	compilers can be modified ;X
2021-06-08 04:43:24	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	nooo
2021-06-08 04:43:32	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i just want my email
2021-06-08 04:43:37	-->	NorthwestVegan (~Northwest@gateway/tor-sasl/northwestvegan) has joined #python
2021-06-08 04:43:47	Aaron	same here ;X
2021-06-08 04:43:57	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
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2021-06-08 04:44:14	Aaron	imagine all the emails I get ;X
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2021-06-08 04:44:33	Aaron	reading little whining little girls ;X
2021-06-08 04:44:45	Aaron	of playing the VERSUS GAME :X
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2021-06-08 04:47:22	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm i just remember seeing the letter from certain agency requesting logs from our servers..
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2021-06-08 04:48:04	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	long ago
2021-06-08 04:48:08	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
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2021-06-08 04:55:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ugh forgot to start a checklist
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2021-06-08 04:55:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	not so far along but what more would i need than venv
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2021-06-08 04:56:28	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	maybe there was so many things leading up to it in 3.5 thats why so confusing
2021-06-08 04:56:38	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	for me
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2021-06-08 05:09:38	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, because people are shady ;X
2021-06-08 05:09:46	Aaron	that's why they are always some type of changes...
2021-06-08 05:09:54	Aaron	into a version of software
2021-06-08 05:10:29	Aaron	to fix exploits and other security vulnerabilities
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2021-06-08 05:12:27	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah i mean this is not bad and probably the way i sould be doing things at cli
2021-06-08 05:12:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	managing venv and all that
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2021-06-08 05:13:11	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	updated pip in main and then venv
2021-06-08 05:13:20	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	becaues i forgot
2021-06-08 05:13:25	Aaron	this is why pip search was disable
2021-06-08 05:13:29	Aaron	;from python
2021-06-08 05:13:40	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it was?
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2021-06-08 05:14:13	Aaron	wait WARNING: Keyring is skipped due to an exception: Failed to unlock the keyring!
2021-06-08 05:14:28	Aaron	ERROR: Exception:
2021-06-08 05:15:23	Aaron	it was delete it ;X
2021-06-08 05:16:01	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm kind of remember search(?)
2021-06-08 05:16:12	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i need to add this i think --upgrade-deps
2021-06-08 05:16:13	Aaron	no longer usable
2021-06-08 05:16:13	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 05:16:19	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe
2021-06-08 05:16:22	Aaron	when dealing with pip
2021-06-08 05:16:43	Aaron	pip search irc
2021-06-08 05:16:46	Aaron	it was disable
2021-06-08 05:16:53	Aaron	to avoid bots ;X
2021-06-08 05:16:57	Aaron	and botnets;
2021-06-08 05:18:46	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	sheesh cant imagine the mayhem
2021-06-08 05:18:49	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 05:19:06	Aaron	now you can facetime via a website platform
2021-06-08 05:19:10	Aaron	how scary is that?
2021-06-08 05:19:11	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 05:20:37	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i mean i was ok with adding the image tag
2021-06-08 05:20:46	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	thought that was great!
2021-06-08 05:21:01	Aaron	so I thought of the jailbreak I thought it was great.
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2021-06-08 05:21:02	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 05:21:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	heh..
2021-06-08 05:21:20	Aaron	but is not
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2021-06-08 05:22:05	Aaron	is easier for hackers to have some type of access when writing trojans or finding who you really are
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2021-06-08 05:24:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	just glad chromium introduced extensions personally
2021-06-08 05:25:22	Aaron	just think of this coders always write two sides of a program the offline version
2021-06-08 05:25:26	Aaron	and the online version
2021-06-08 05:25:41	Aaron	and think about the manipulations with the data you can achieve only been some type of admin.
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2021-06-08 05:29:50	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i mean i miss BonziBuddy and all...
2021-06-08 05:29:56	 *	D4RKR4Z0R-Z runs
2021-06-08 05:30:10	Aaron	just smile and be happy ;X
2021-06-08 05:30:17	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe right
2021-06-08 05:30:27	Aaron	and use the /ignore command on IRC
2021-06-08 05:31:05	Aaron	there is a lot of people saying they are hackers and coders and reading code is something we can all do with github.com but running the examples is the unfortunate part;
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2021-06-08 05:31:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah for sure...  heh
2021-06-08 05:32:06	Aaron	this is why PGP is handy ;X
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2021-06-08 05:32:26	Aaron	so liars don't lie and take the credits for works they never did contribute to a project.
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2021-06-08 05:33:14	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i have to wonder how many times _that_ has happened...
2021-06-08 05:33:27	Aaron	10000000000000000 of times in the open source community.
2021-06-08 05:33:30	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 05:33:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe yeah i bet
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2021-06-08 05:36:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	had to do "py -m venv --upgrade-deps venv"
2021-06-08 05:36:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	helps to read docs i guess
2021-06-08 05:36:54	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	;)
2021-06-08 05:37:08	Aaron	there is a project call zeal
2021-06-08 05:37:12	Aaron	very usable
2021-06-08 05:37:21	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ok hmm
2021-06-08 05:37:35	Aaron	in terms of learning different type of languages and docs type of system
2021-06-08 05:37:53	Aaron	zealdocs.org
2021-06-08 05:38:05	Aaron	Zeal is an offline documentation browser for software developers.
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2021-06-08 05:38:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	oh nicee!
2021-06-08 05:39:58	Aaron	to learn every type of coding syntax and such
2021-06-08 05:40:33	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i can have all the Java documentation i could ever want and still not learn!
2021-06-08 05:40:41	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	no thats awesome!
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2021-06-08 05:41:06	Aaron	lol
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2021-06-08 05:41:18	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	:)
2021-06-08 05:41:18	Aaron	java openjre and all those crazy technologies ;X
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2021-06-08 05:41:34	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah openjre too~!
2021-06-08 05:42:09	Aaron	that's because java.com is own or at least heavy own by SUN or SOLARIS :X
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2021-06-08 05:43:50	Aaron	and openjre is not
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2021-06-08 05:44:37	Aaron	that's where politics I find them dumb when it comes to learning and the limitations big corporations want to give you for using a product.
2021-06-08 05:45:01	Aaron	and not having a certification with them or not...
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2021-06-08 05:47:30	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	yeah oracle confuses me sometimes but i guess leveraging linux made sense
2021-06-08 05:47:54	Aaron	it means not only you study computer science
2021-06-08 05:48:03	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	lol
2021-06-08 05:48:05	Aaron	but it means if you don't have money for a certification with a company
2021-06-08 05:48:15	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	right..
2021-06-08 05:48:19	Aaron	then you're nothing....
2021-06-08 05:48:20	Aaron	;X
2021-06-08 05:49:02	Aaron	that's why PGP and other encrypting is always enable when it comes to contributing into a project.
2021-06-08 05:49:38	Aaron	so people don't say OH I DID THE CHANGE. and then you ask them about the change. And they cannot even explain the patch they. *JUST WROTE."
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2021-06-08 05:50:02	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ugh yeah right
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2021-06-08 05:52:55	Aaron	so don't feel discourage when someone give you some type of feedback in your coding abilities many people here take it to the heart.
2021-06-08 05:53:40	Aaron	if you want to write LONG BORING CODING or short straight to the POINT CODING; you choose
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2021-06-08 05:56:08	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hmm well i will have to see this time but it was leaning toward the latter (maybe?)
2021-06-08 05:56:41	Aaron	lol many people want to start from the pen house and work there way to the bottom ;X
2021-06-08 05:56:48	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	it ended up being un-modular
2021-06-08 05:56:58	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe hmm
2021-06-08 05:57:01	-->	lupulo (~lupulo@163.117.64.56) has joined #python
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2021-06-08 05:57:41	Aaron	and the reason I am saying this is because Where I go is where celebrities follow me ;X
2021-06-08 05:58:25	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe :)
2021-06-08 05:58:29	Aaron	June 8 New Best Friend days in the USA. :X
2021-06-08 05:59:04	Aaron	D4RKR4Z0R-Z, yeah ;X
2021-06-08 05:59:11	Aaron	and I am not a hacker.
2021-06-08 05:59:22	Aaron	I'm only good with GUNS and technology ;X
2021-06-08 05:59:42	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	no kidding it is!
2021-06-08 05:59:43	-->	Neomex (~Neomex@176-114-249-197.rychlydrat.cz) has joined #python
2021-06-08 05:59:48	Aaron	and aviation ;X is a plus
2021-06-08 06:00:00	Aaron	because my dad is or was a captain for a major airliner.
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2021-06-08 06:01:19	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	heh..  cool Burt Rutan fan myself!
2021-06-08 06:01:51	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ugh i have to get ready here
2021-06-08 06:02:17	Aaron	that's what my ex said ;X
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2021-06-08 06:02:24	Aaron	when she left last night all smiling ;X
2021-06-08 06:02:32	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe.. ;)
2021-06-08 06:02:38	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	i should call in
2021-06-08 06:02:42	Aaron	LoL
2021-06-08 06:02:54	Aaron	she's the one who give me the PS5
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2021-06-08 06:05:31	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	I WFH so long, now I have to go back and find my stuff :)
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2021-06-08 06:05:51	Aaron	lol have fun
2021-06-08 06:05:58	Aaron	it was a pleasure chatting with you
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2021-06-08 06:23:35	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	same Aaron :)  thanks you again for Zeal and thanks!!
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2021-06-08 06:24:30	Aaron	any time
2021-06-08 06:24:37	Aaron	I will always be here D4RKR4Z0R-Z
2021-06-08 06:24:40	Aaron	with the same nick ;X
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2021-06-08 06:26:11	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	ok cool yeah!  will catch you later then :)
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2021-06-08 06:26:30	Aaron	just be safe :)
2021-06-08 06:26:38	Aaron	and catch you later. God bless. brother man.
2021-06-08 06:28:47	D4RKR4Z0R-Z	hehe yes you too and God bless my friend!!
2021-06-08 06:29:00	Aaron	thanks brother man (:
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2021-06-08 09:44:30	wallace_mu200	Hi all, is it good practice to initialize all instance variable in __init__ to be None, even tho I know what type it is going to be, forexample , I want a self.result_of_dict = dict(), and my colleage tried to make to make a self.result_of_dict = None, and do dict() it in the corresponding method
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2021-06-08 10:00:02	nedbat	wallace_mu200: there are more helpers at https://libera.chat
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2021-06-08 10:05:46	wallace_mu200	oh we switched the different domain? am I too old
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2021-06-08 10:06:15	nedbat	wallace_mu200: it's only a few weeks old: https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-08 10:06:25	Dark	Lol
2021-06-08 10:06:55	wallace_mu200	haha thanks,  have been using freenode for years
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2021-06-08 10:31:47	rcm888	is there actual guide for seting up the atom ide for python? I got ERROR: [Linter] Error running Flake8 Error: Failed to spawn command `flake8`
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2021-06-08 10:37:44	habnabit_	rcm888, we moved to libera.chat: https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-08 10:46:40	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: and speaking of moves, ~everyone moved to vs code
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2021-06-08 10:48:04	rcm888	ChrisWarrick: what is "vs code"?
2021-06-08 10:48:11	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: visual studio code
2021-06-08 10:48:29	rcm888	ChrisWarrick: you gotta be kidding
2021-06-08 10:48:34	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: no, I’m not
2021-06-08 10:48:57	rcm888	ChrisWarrick: who would use that fat
2021-06-08 10:49:06	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: fat?
2021-06-08 10:49:16	rcm888	yes FAT
2021-06-08 10:49:24	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: what makes you say that?
2021-06-08 10:49:31	oxek	ChrisWarrick: it's an electron app
2021-06-08 10:49:36	ChrisWarrick	oxek: So is Atom
2021-06-08 10:49:41	oxek	atom is fat too
2021-06-08 10:49:56	ChrisWarrick	all the good editors are resource-intensive stuff
2021-06-08 10:49:57	rcm888	I thought pycharm is fat
2021-06-08 10:50:23	ChrisWarrick	pycharm is the best one out there (python-wise), and yes, it does require a beefy machine
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2021-06-08 10:51:27	rcm888	vim worked good, for exception it hanged often, but that is fixed in latest releases
2021-06-08 10:51:51	ChrisWarrick	vscode is like atom, but good
2021-06-08 10:52:07	rcm888	I just need to setup atom for normal python coding
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2021-06-08 10:52:53	rcm888	I thought vscode is MS product
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2021-06-08 10:53:15	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: it is, so what?
2021-06-08 10:53:30	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: atom is also a microsoft product these days, expect it’s a neglected one
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2021-06-08 10:54:13	rcm888	they may revoke license - what are you gonna do?
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2021-06-08 10:56:39	ChrisWarrick	revoke license?
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2021-06-08 10:57:57	rcm888	ChrisWarrick: yes, change licensing. this way they could take control over entire applications set
2021-06-08 10:58:16	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: then someone will make a truly open-source fork
2021-06-08 10:58:22	ChrisWarrick	rcm888: modern-day Microsoft wouldn’t really do that
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2021-06-08 11:01:02	oxek	you mean like vscodium?
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2021-06-08 11:04:38	rcm888	linux is still having only 2.4% desktop share. But most experienced MS users have no difficulties with using fresh linux distros, for every daily task. Growing market - Tasty slice of a pie.
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2021-06-08 11:38:50	rcm888	why did you move to liberia?
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2021-06-08 11:42:41	nedbat	rcm888: there are details at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-08 13:07:09	white_shadow	Are people leaving freenode?
2021-06-08 13:07:17	white_shadow	I am seeing very less users...
2021-06-08 13:07:28	nedbat	white_shadow: yes. details are linked here: https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-08 13:11:58	jmgb4	So hopefully a basic question an answer... what are the pros and cons to loading things like api keys into environmental variables and then reading it from there instead of reading it from a text file using configparser? Is one better than the other? I would think loading it into the env is a bad idea but I have no reason to why
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2021-06-08 13:19:40	white_snack	nedbat LibraIRC you mean?
2021-06-08 13:20:15	dnode	does the doc mean, that close_connection should be assigned to every time before handle_one_request() returns or that if close_connection is assigned to, that should be done before the return? (https://docs.python.org/3/library/http.server.html#http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandler.close_connection)
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2021-06-08 13:20:53	nedbat	white_snack: no, it's a new network: https://libera.chat
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2021-06-08 13:21:28	white_snack	how to connect using a client?
2021-06-08 13:22:26	ChrisWarrick	white_snack: what client?
2021-06-08 13:22:41	white_snack	hexchat
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2021-06-08 13:23:27	ChrisWarrick	white_snack: https://libera.chat/guides/hexchat
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2021-06-08 13:49:11	lemoldu	Hi
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2021-06-08 13:49:31	lemoldu	I am looking for a way to print a table (with different cell size)
2021-06-08 13:49:39	lemoldu	something similar to this https://www.pedigreequery.com/galileo
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2021-06-08 13:49:56	lemoldu	do you have an idea ?
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2021-06-08 14:00:01	ChrisWarrick	lemoldu: are you sure this is a #python question?
2021-06-08 14:00:32	ChrisWarrick	lemoldu: this table is fairly trivial to make in HTML with the rowspan attribute
2021-06-08 14:00:34	lemoldu	yes I want to print a table in plaintext with python
2021-06-08 14:01:10	lemoldu	ok I mean, the same shape (not in html)
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2021-06-08 14:03:27	lemoldu	right now I can only print table with the same cell size using the "print" function
2021-06-08 14:03:55	ChrisWarrick	there might be a library for fancier table printing on pypi
2021-06-08 14:04:48	lemoldu	I used tabulate, it works well but does not support different cell size
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2021-06-08 14:32:20	AlwaysOnTime	In a pandas dataframe how do I remove all rows that contain numbers except the ones that end or start with 360?
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2021-06-08 15:00:27	AlwaysOnTime	Or if not pandas, is there a way to do it with a regexp while iterating through a list?
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2021-06-08 15:04:33	Tashtari	AlwaysOnTime: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-08 15:19:20	AlwaysOnTime	Thank you Tashtari!
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2021-06-08 21:44:56	karlh	hello everyone
2021-06-08 21:47:12	karlh	damn yall are dead in here
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2021-06-08 22:43:06	justadeveloper	hi
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2021-06-08 23:12:09	--	justadeveloper is now known as gnux
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2021-06-08 23:17:03	rindolf	gnux: hi, sup?
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2021-06-08 23:25:53	gnux	does python have a web frontend
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2021-06-09 00:00:39	Tashtari	gnux: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-09 00:06:25	ericlee	Hi, when I use aiohttp to do get and if I don't await the response body and just print response status, where does the response body go?
2021-06-09 00:06:51	Tashtari	ericlee: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-09 00:08:32	ericlee	thanks I'm using hexchat :D
2021-06-09 00:09:12	Tashtari	Yeah, a lot of people have been making that mistake, that's why I'm being preemptive about it.
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2021-06-09 00:11:41	ericlee	roger thanks!!
2021-06-09 00:11:54	Tashtari	_o>
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2021-06-09 00:12:59	Aaron	don't go to a server where all the ircops. Hate Americans.
2021-06-09 00:13:01	Aaron	;)
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2021-06-09 02:35:54	hid3	Greetings everyone. I'm converting my script from Python 2 to Python 3. However, there's one line I'm having difficulties with
2021-06-09 02:35:59	hid3	the line's this:
2021-06-09 02:36:00	hid3	print ('Message %s\n%s\n' % num, e['subject'])
2021-06-09 02:36:13	hid3	I keep getting error: TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
2021-06-09 02:36:20	hid3	any ideas how should I change it?
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2021-06-09 03:05:21	FastJack	might be naive why not convert it to an f-string?
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2021-06-09 03:12:50	hid3	I think I don't really understand them
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2021-06-09 03:24:26	BrenBarn	I get the same error in Python 2
2021-06-09 03:24:34	BrenBarn	But probably what you want is an extra set of parentheses, like `print('Message %s\n%s\n' % (num, e['subject']))`
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2021-06-09 03:26:37	hid3	print ('Message {}\n{}\n' .format(num.decode('utf-8'), e['subject'])) seems to do the trick...
2021-06-09 03:26:55	hid3	but that change looks so complicated IMHO
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2021-06-09 05:58:08	daregap	Hey, I need a recommendation for Python3 GUI design with Qt. I've been looking at this book: https://www.mfitzp.com/pyside2-book/
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2021-06-09 06:41:15	siwica	What is the current state of element ordering in a dict in python 3.9. Is the insertion order of elements is guaranteed to be preserverd by the standard or is that still only an implementation detail?
2021-06-09 06:41:26	nedbat	siwica: it's guaranteed.
2021-06-09 06:41:30	nedbat	(since 3.7)
2021-06-09 06:41:57	siwica	nedbat: Could you point me to the authoritative ressource on that?
2021-06-09 06:42:48	Yhg1s	siwica: https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.7.html
2021-06-09 06:43:36	nedbat	siwica: also, https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#dict says (far down the page), "dict preserve insertion order"
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2021-06-09 06:47:53	siwica	Ah, perfect! That's a very positive change :D
2021-06-09 06:47:58	siwica	Thank you!
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2021-06-09 08:47:28	yanmaani	siwica: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-09 08:47:38	DSee	>_>
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2021-06-09 09:50:27	akinode	hello, anyone here with beautifulsoup knowledge who can help with this problem? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67904961/inserting-a-html-tag-before-an-element-using-python
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2021-06-09 10:22:14	nedbat	akinode: we've mostly moved to https://libera.chat
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2021-06-09 12:43:44	Kraus	Greetings! I have a small problem. On Ubuntu 20.04 (Mint 20.1) Was trying to run a script that seems to be well-maintained, but "request" module apparently wasn't installed? Even though it says it was? Maybe python was getting confused between 2 and 3? Anyways, I attempted to fix through various solutions I found on askubuntu threads, but I seem to have gotten myself in a bigger mess by doing so. It gives me a warning I'm using a
2021-06-09 12:43:44	Kraus	deprecated version for 2.7, and the script I was attempting to run is getting further down the code but still having problems. So, I figure instead of digging myself a deeper hole, I should just undo the get-pip.py script I ran, but I don't know how.
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2021-06-09 12:44:23	Tashtari	Kraus: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-09 12:44:53	Kraus	Tashtari: Ahh, okay, but there are still 931 users in here?
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2021-06-09 12:45:19	Tashtari	Kraus: A small number of semi active ones, a large number of likely forgotten-about bouncers.
2021-06-09 12:45:31	 *	Kraus chuckles.
2021-06-09 12:45:48	Kraus	Okay thanks then. I guess I'll need to add yet another server to my growing list :)
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2021-06-09 14:02:24	habnabit_	Kraus, freenode has mostly imploded anyway.. everyone else has moved to libera already.
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2021-06-09 14:24:32	exonintrendo9	Is there a way with argparse to create an argument that is applied globally? to the main parser and all subparsers added?
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2021-06-09 14:27:55	nedbat	exonintrendo9: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-09 14:28:05	exonintrendo9	Thanks!
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2021-06-09 14:35:57	Kraus	habnabit_: Has it? Haven't been around lately.
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2021-06-09 14:38:55	Tashtari	Kraus: https://www.pound-python.org/ has a few links that explain what went on.
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2021-06-09 14:40:54	Tashtari	Though I don't think any of them explicitly mention what happened in late May where a whole bunch of channels were shut down by freenode bots for mentioning libera.chat in their topic
2021-06-09 14:41:14	Kraus	Oh jeesh.
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2021-06-09 14:41:59	Tashtari	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27286628  Here's a hackernews story on that if you're interested
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2021-06-09 14:42:48	Tashtari	nedbat: Actually, on that subject, do you want to add that to the list of links on pound-python.org?
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2021-06-09 17:44:51	resangan	Wow, anyone else moving to irc.libera.chat?
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2021-06-09 17:47:53	Tashtari	That was unexpected.
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2021-06-09 17:48:40	ChrisWarrick	it wasn’t the person you might have been thinking of
2021-06-09 17:49:02	Tashtari	Let me dream.
2021-06-09 17:49:20	ChrisWarrick	also, the user counts on both channels are very close
2021-06-09 17:50:37	Tashtari	They are.  I've been waiting for libera's to overtake...
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2021-06-09 17:50:42	Tashtari	But I haven't seen it do it yet.
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2021-06-09 17:58:28	Aaron	lol
2021-06-09 17:58:34	Aaron	libera when Down
2021-06-09 17:58:40	Aaron	they only have botnets
2021-06-09 17:58:43	Aaron	and a few users.
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2021-06-09 18:11:47	habnabit_	Aaron, libera's #python is substantially more active
2021-06-09 18:12:11	Aaron	oh nice I am a hard core coder
2021-06-09 18:12:16	Aaron	so i won't need them at all;
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2021-06-09 18:12:37	habnabit_	Aaron, rest assured it isn't 'few' users
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2021-06-09 18:13:22	Aaron	I love the quietness of the channel.
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2021-06-09 18:14:37	habnabit_	Aaron, however you want to justify it
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2021-06-09 19:32:10	admin124	why is "20EE:Fb8:85a3:0:0:8A2E:0370:7334:12" not ipv6 ?
2021-06-09 19:32:46	admin124	ah 9 parts
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2021-06-09 20:31:41	j3ws3rd	Hi, is anyone there?
2021-06-09 20:31:49	-->	jonjitsu (~jz@69-165-149-223.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #python
2021-06-09 20:31:52	j3ws3rd	it took me 20min to enter in this chat
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2021-06-09 20:32:27	j3ws3rd	actually am getting some error in python can someon help me?
2021-06-09 20:32:33	j3ws3rd	someone*
2021-06-09 20:33:25	-->	llh (~coke@unaffiliated/llh) has joined #python
2021-06-09 20:34:10	oxek	j3ws3rd: in case you don't get an answer here, try the main python channel
2021-06-09 20:36:34	nedbat	j3ws3rd: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-09 20:37:45	oxek	j3ws3rd: also a good general rule is to not ask to ask, but state your actual problem instead
2021-06-09 20:37:51	oxek	oh and also reading /topic of a channel
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2021-06-09 20:38:23	j3ws3rd	actually,I am making a discord bot using discord.py and discord.ext
2021-06-09 20:38:24	<--	nabil (~nabil@105.101.18.210) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-09 20:38:40	j3ws3rd	I am trying to add some reddit featured but it's showing me this ...
2021-06-09 20:39:04	j3ws3rd	discord.ext.commands.errors.CommandInvokeError: Command raised an exception: AttributeError: 'Reddit' object has no attribute 'subReddit'
2021-06-09 20:39:34	j3ws3rd	I am using praw for generating session
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2021-06-09 20:40:27	j3ws3rd	 @commands.command()
2021-06-09 20:40:27	j3ws3rd	    async def random(self, ctx, subReddit: str = ""):
2021-06-09 20:40:27	j3ws3rd	        async with ctx.channel.typing():
2021-06-09 20:40:27	j3ws3rd	            if self.reddit:
2021-06-09 20:40:27	j3ws3rd	                print("Session created for discord")
2021-06-09 20:40:29	j3ws3rd	                # start working
2021-06-09 20:40:32	j3ws3rd	                chosen_subreddit = REDDIT_ENABLED_MODE[0]
2021-06-09 20:40:34	j3ws3rd	                if subReddit:
2021-06-09 20:40:37	j3ws3rd	                    if subReddit in REDDIT_ENABLED_MODE:
2021-06-09 20:40:39	j3ws3rd	                        chosen_subreddit = subReddit
2021-06-09 20:40:42	j3ws3rd	                    else:
2021-06-09 20:40:45	j3ws3rd	                        print("WE are fucked ")
2021-06-09 20:40:47	j3ws3rd	                else:
2021-06-09 20:40:49	j3ws3rd	                    print("FIC")
2021-06-09 20:40:52	j3ws3rd	                print("subreddit is " + subReddit)
2021-06-09 20:40:54	j3ws3rd	                submissions = self.reddit.subReddit(chosen_subreddit).hot()
2021-06-09 20:40:57	j3ws3rd	                print(submissions)
2021-06-09 20:41:00	j3ws3rd	                postToPick = random.randint(1,7)
2021-06-09 20:41:02	j3ws3rd	                for i in range(0,postToPick):
2021-06-09 20:41:04	j3ws3rd	                    submission = next(x for x in submissions if not x.stickied)
2021-06-09 20:41:07	j3ws3rd	                await ctx.send(submission.url)
2021-06-09 20:41:09	j3ws3rd	            else:
2021-06-09 20:41:26	Tashtari	Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python
2021-06-09 20:41:31	Tashtari	also something that is made clear in the topic
2021-06-09 20:42:14	j3ws3rd	@Tashtari sorry :'( , I don't known of that
2021-06-09 20:43:06	oxek	j3ws3rd: on IRC, you we don't use @j3ws3rd, just write j3ws3rd instead
2021-06-09 20:43:13	Tashtari	Most importantly, though, this channel has moved to the irc.libera.chat network and you're a lot more likely to find someone who can help you there
2021-06-09 20:45:13	j3ws3rd	all right I am proceeding there :)
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2021-06-09 20:48:30	jaziz	wow libera python now has more people online than freenode python
2021-06-09 20:48:31	jaziz	beautiful
2021-06-09 20:49:33	Tashtari	I wonder how many of the people here actually represent people...
2021-06-09 20:49:46	Tashtari	But I guess we'll never find out
2021-06-09 20:49:55	oxek	it's only zombies in here by now
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2021-06-09 20:56:13	j3ws3rd	ssss
2021-06-09 20:56:14	j3ws3rd	part
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2021-06-09 21:58:56	glestrade	Hi guys, I’m trying to see all the data for an image that I grabbed with cv2 imread
2021-06-09 21:59:09	glestrade	but when I print, there’s some truncation
2021-06-09 21:59:38	glestrade	unfortunately, the image is black and transparent (i think) around the edges, so it looks like there’s nothing in there
2021-06-09 21:59:48	glestrade	how can I look at the whole thing to be sure
2021-06-09 21:59:48	--	Jigsy` is now known as Jigsy
2021-06-09 22:01:18	oxek	glestrade: in case you don't get an answer here, try the main/official/bigger python channel
2021-06-09 22:03:54	glestrade	would that be ##python?
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2021-06-09 22:09:48	oxek	glestrade: /topic should direct you to https://www.pound-python.org which has more info
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2021-06-09 22:17:05	glestrade	oxek: the only other channels I see there are #python-offtopic, #python-unregisted, and #python-ops
2021-06-09 22:17:41	glestrade	I can see there was a snafu with the management change, but it looks like this is on libera (?)
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2021-06-09 22:18:12	glestrade	just learning about this now
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2021-06-10 02:22:44	ZenixOwler	i am trying to do some proxy stuffs in its most basic form but still kinda fail, here is my example : https://hatebin.com/uznhdlyqpl but eventually it results in "requests.exceptions.InvalidURL: Proxy URL had no scheme, should start with http:// or https://"
2021-06-10 02:22:48	ZenixOwler	anyone has any idea ?
2021-06-10 02:23:32	Tashtari	ZenixOwler: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 02:24:11	ZenixOwler	hm, why do most people have moved there recently
2021-06-10 02:24:27	Tashtari	There are a few links on https://www.pound-python.org that provide some context.
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2021-06-10 02:24:35	ZenixOwler	but thk for saying
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2021-06-10 02:25:05	nolash	is there a stdlib method for parsing the comma-separated optional values in an http header?
2021-06-10 02:25:28	Tashtari	nolash: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 05:17:09	bdulll4	I have a question about python unit tests. is there any way to remove the leading dots while runnig unit tests?
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2021-06-10 05:22:19	nedbat	bdulll4: i'll guess that you mean you see a dot before the output from your test?
2021-06-10 05:22:42	nedbat	bdulll4: btw, we have moved to https://libera.chat, more people will be there to help
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2021-06-10 05:25:37	bdulll4	nedbat: Yes, okay. shall i join there or you will be answering the questioin
2021-06-10 05:26:03	nedbat	bdulll4: if you don't mind heading there now, that will be better
2021-06-10 05:27:20	bdulll4	What is the channel name? I am willing to use my own client
2021-06-10 05:27:37	nedbat	bdulll4: it's #python on irc.libera.chat
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2021-06-10 05:31:28	bdulll4	nedbat: I joined the channel? do you have the same username there?
2021-06-10 05:32:10	nedbat	bdulll4: i do, but i don't see you there.  are you registered with nickserv?  Are you in #python ?
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2021-06-10 05:43:49	dostoyevsky	d = {"a": 1} # I want this to become "{\"a\": 1}" // I have already tried print('"%s"' % repr(json.dumps(d))) which yields "'{"a": 1}'"
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2021-06-10 05:45:09	grawity	please clarify your actual requirement
2021-06-10 05:45:28	grawity	not in terms of quotes and backslashes, but like, where are you putting it
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2021-06-10 05:47:25	dostoyevsky	grawity: I am generating a string for a https://everything.curl.dev/cmdline/configfile
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2021-06-10 05:49:31	grawity	hmm that page doesn't have much in terms of the syntax/escaping it accepts ... and tbh, my initial reaction is "wait, why would you need a curl config file in Python to begin with"
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2021-06-10 05:49:52	dostoyevsky	grawity: which is not my question
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2021-06-10 05:50:05	grawity	yes, but it is my question
2021-06-10 05:50:05	dostoyevsky	but if python can't do that string conversion, ok...
2021-06-10 05:50:18	dostoyevsky	maybe I should use a programming language that can
2021-06-10 05:50:36	grawity	oh no I will cry
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2021-06-10 05:50:39	grawity	right sure
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2021-06-10 05:51:47	dostoyevsky	grawity: or maybe just join a channel where your input is more appropriate
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2021-06-10 05:52:18	grawity	ok
2021-06-10 05:52:19	ChrisWarrick	dostoyevsky: we prefer to solve problems
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2021-06-10 05:52:25	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, i don't see any \ on https://everything.curl.dev/cmdline/configfile
2021-06-10 05:52:30	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, what makes you think it needs a \ ?
2021-06-10 05:53:09	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, also, please don't continue that trolling approach to get help. it's quite rude
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2021-06-10 05:53:53	dostoyevsky	habnabit_: I am asking a simple quotation question, not sure why we then need to talk about software architecture
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2021-06-10 05:54:43	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, i'm talking about your approach to try to get your question answered by saying "obviously python can't do this"
2021-06-10 05:54:46	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, do not do that
2021-06-10 05:54:48	bjs	dostoyevsky: i think we should be careful when writing string literals,  as it's often not clear which characters you actually want in the file and which you don't
2021-06-10 05:54:50	nedbat	dostoyevsky: how about:  str(d).replace('"', '\\"')
2021-06-10 05:55:18	nedbat	dostoyevsky: i think that will do what you are asking for, but i think there's a 50% chance that it isn't entirely what you need.
2021-06-10 05:55:20	bjs	dostoyevsky: nedbat: json.dumps(json.dumps(d))
2021-06-10 05:55:45	bjs	if the string literal above is really literal
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2021-06-10 05:56:43	dostoyevsky	bjs: Yeah, thanks!!!
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2021-06-10 05:57:00	dostoyevsky	It's so obvious now
2021-06-10 05:58:09	dostoyevsky	habnabit_: yeah, I shouldn't have implied that python can't do that, sorry
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2021-06-10 05:58:31	frrs	dostoyevsky: you have a beautiful name
2021-06-10 05:58:51	habnabit_	dostoyevsky, it's ok. just don't do it again
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2021-06-10 06:53:54	istevenmon	Hi guys, is there a way to create a comprehension for python3.7 where the value is modified previous assignment? e.g. [val+=10 for x in y if x]
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2021-06-10 06:55:42	MrElendig	1. you want the other network  2. clearer as a written out loop imo
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2021-06-10 06:56:07	nedbat	istevenmon: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 06:56:43	istevenmon	thanks for the info will check over there
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2021-06-10 07:40:22	Xat`	hi guys
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2021-06-10 07:48:06	Xat`	I have a dict of list, and want to find any duplicate value for through all keys in the dict : https://paste.ee/p/ekN1I
2021-06-10 07:48:14	Xat`	-for
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2021-06-10 07:48:58	Xat`	any tips to do this ?
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2021-06-10 07:52:51	nedbat	Xat`: dd = collections.defaultdict(list); for u, p in your_dict.items(): dd[p].append(u);; for path, users in dd.items():  if len(users)>1: print(users)
2021-06-10 07:53:00	nedbat	Xat`: btw, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 08:00:13	Xat`	alright, thanks !
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2021-06-10 08:52:16	DK2	everything moves from freenode? why?
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2021-06-10 08:52:56	nedbat	DK2: there are some links at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-10 10:22:58	zen_coder	when I use the "f" string formatter it will also implicit mark the string as unicode string?
2021-06-10 10:23:16	zen_coder	so I do not have to set: fu' \u2022 {var} ' ?
2021-06-10 10:23:19	bjs	zen_coder: in python3 all strings (str) are unicode strings
2021-06-10 10:23:26	bjs	zen_coder: the u prefix does nothing in python3
2021-06-10 10:23:59	bjs	zen_coder: btw see the /TOPIC , people have mostly been moving over to the #python channel on irc.libera.chat instead of freenode
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2021-06-10 10:39:46	luke_66	hi evryone
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2021-06-10 10:42:50	medard	Hi. I am using requests to get some json data. I hear there are some very simple python webservers. Is it possible with simple scriptlet to get this JSON data and show it on a simple webpage?
2021-06-10 10:43:01	medard	if so what should I look for?
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2021-06-10 10:44:51	luke_66	I'm trying to use self.AssertRaises and it's context manager as described in the docs for a unittest:
2021-06-10 10:44:51	luke_66	https://bpa.st/UBJQ
2021-06-10 10:44:52	luke_66	exception is correctly raised but not catched:
2021-06-10 10:44:52	luke_66	https://bpa.st/UE4A
2021-06-10 10:44:53	luke_66	any idea of what I'm doing wrong?
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2021-06-10 10:54:01	nedbat	medard, luke_66: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-10 10:54:20	medard	thank you
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2021-06-10 11:00:56	nedbat	luke_66: at a glance, it seems like you are doing the right things, but it's a lot of mocking, so it's hard to see where the hiccup is.
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2021-06-10 11:01:48	nedbat	luke_66: fwiw, there's a package called responses that is specifically for mocking requests that might be helpful.
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2021-06-10 11:06:26	luke_66	nedbat tnx, think I solved it...
2021-06-10 11:06:44	nedbat	luke_66: what was the fix?
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2021-06-10 11:07:57	luke_66	nedbat: the test pass correctly, but I can't silence the exception on the stderr output. same thing if I replace that with a try/except block
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2021-06-10 11:08:49	nedbat	luke_66: hmm, i wonder what is printing it to stderr?
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2021-06-10 12:27:42	Intruder777	Hello. Can someone tell me what set of tools is used to achieve this: https://imgur.com/wuYozd3 ? (colored autocompletion in terminal)
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2021-06-10 12:29:41	nedbat	Intruder777: i think that is fish (the shell) doing that.
2021-06-10 12:30:08	nedbat	Intruder777: btw, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-10 12:30:29	Intruder777	nedbat: thanks
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2021-06-10 13:56:00	ChrisWarrick	(that is fish; for zsh fans, there are plugins for that)
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2021-06-10 17:17:58	jamea97	wich is the server of libera?
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2021-06-10 17:24:22	bjs	jamea97: http://libera.chat/
2021-06-10 17:24:28	bjs	the website contains all the info
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2021-06-10 17:24:38	bjs	jamea97: then it's just #python there
2021-06-10 17:26:40	Aaron	omg
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2021-06-10 17:28:04	bjs	Aaron: omg?
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2021-06-10 17:29:58	jamea97	ok thanks
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2021-06-10 17:38:37	Nightwing52	I am trying to make an animation in Matplotlib and take advantage of blitting, but I suspect I'm not doing it correctly. The code runs, but it runs at the same speed as if it is not blitted. https://pastebin.com/dvmSHTae
2021-06-10 17:40:02	nedbat	Nightwing52: i don't know the answer, but this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 19:19:15	hrtk	is there a way in pytest to stop a test after a certain number of objects of type X have been created ?
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2021-06-10 19:20:53	nedbat	hrtk: i doubt pytest can do that, but you could instrument your X class to stop.  btw, this channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-10 19:21:21	hrtk	nedbat: Thanks. I'll ask there.
2021-06-10 19:21:34	hrtk	I cannot alter class X. The test has to take care of that
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2021-06-10 20:18:18	unpreparedly	for inhouse python libraries, do you/your team maintain misc, independently versioned utilities all under one namespace?
2021-06-10 20:18:52	unpreparedly	e.g. myteam.runstats; myteam.archiving; myteam.cust_staging
2021-06-10 20:19:35	unpreparedly	or instead, independent libraries -- myteam_runstats, myteam_archiving, etc.
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2021-06-10 20:23:47	Tashtari	unpreparedly: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-10 21:03:05	unpreparedly	Tashtari thank you
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2021-06-11 01:38:44	sudomann	Question related to python on my job application - seeking improvements to my answer: https://bpa.st/WRIQ
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2021-06-11 02:12:43	no_gravity	Good Morning
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2021-06-11 02:13:40	no_gravity	When I have a lot of very small modules that all depend on the same set of base modules, do I need to import all of the base modules in every one of my modules?
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2021-06-11 02:15:42	Tashtari	no_gravity: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
2021-06-11 02:16:40	no_gravity	Tashtari: Why?
2021-06-11 02:17:05	Tashtari	Long story short, freenode had a sudden, unwelcome, and rather chaotic change of leadership.  There are some links on https://www.pound-python.org that provide context.
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2021-06-11 02:18:03	no_gravity	Tashtari: Does the leadership matter as long as we can send lines of text back and forth?
2021-06-11 02:18:34	no_gravity	Leadership in my country changes every 4 years, but nobody discusses moving abroad every time :)
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2021-06-11 02:21:43	Tashtari	no_gravity: I think it's the principle of the thing in this case.
2021-06-11 02:21:54	Tashtari	At least partially.
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2021-06-11 02:22:37	no_gravity	Anyhow, if someone here is still interested in discussing Python, here is my question again:
2021-06-11 02:22:42	no_gravity	When I have a lot of very small modules that all depend on the same set of base modules, do I need to import all of the base modules in every one of my modules?
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2021-06-11 02:28:30	ramsub07	Hello, I'm unable to install meshplot using conda https://skoch9.github.io/meshplot/
2021-06-11 02:28:39	ramsub07	can someone please help me out?
2021-06-11 02:29:41	no_gravity	ramsub07: What happens?
2021-06-11 02:29:55	ramsub07	no_gravity PackagesNotFoundError: The following packages are not available from current channels:
2021-06-11 02:30:11	no_gravity	ramsub07: After you did what?
2021-06-11 02:30:18	ramsub07	conda install meshplot
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2021-06-11 02:30:33	no_gravity	ramsub07: Hmm... Im not sure.
2021-06-11 02:30:42	no_gravity	ramsub07: When I have a lot of very small modules that all depend on the same set of base modules, do I need to import all of the base modules in every one of my modules?
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2021-06-11 02:30:51	Tashtari	ramsub07: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
2021-06-11 02:31:32	ramsub07	oh. thanks for this information. I actually tried connecting there and I went to irc.libera where I didn't find any python channels
2021-06-11 02:32:08	Tashtari	ramsub07: Possibly you were connected to the wrong network?  I can tell you that #python on irc.libera.chat is both bigger and more active than this channel.
2021-06-11 02:32:37	Tashtari	There is a network called "LibraIRC" configured by default in HexChat that is confusing some people - that is a different network.
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2021-06-11 02:34:49	ramsub07	thanks i think i'm there
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2021-06-11 02:41:31	ramsub07	I see 882 people there. is that the right one? Tashtari
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2021-06-11 03:25:51	uaa	hi, did the drama about Libra end? I see no #python channel there or did I mess something
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2021-06-11 08:15:05	logithack	When injecting parameters into SQLite statements, you use '?', e.g. 'cur.execute("UPDATE people SET name = ? WHERE id = ?", ("John", 1))'. What is the recommended approach if you would like to inject parameter names -- 'name' in my example --, too?
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2021-06-11 08:17:07	logithack	Doing 'cur.execute("UPDATE people SET ? = ? WHERE id = ?", ("name", "John", 1))' gives an error, because "name" is not a value. And using string formatting (e.g. "... SET {} = ? ...".format("name")) will most probably bring back the old vulnerability to SQL injections, which is why injecting via '?' was introduced in the first place.
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2021-06-11 08:25:40	habnabit	logithack, we moved to libera.chat: https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-11 08:28:27	logithack	habnabit: Oh wow, didn't know that! Thanks for updating me!
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2021-06-11 09:09:52	Hash	Freenode came under new management in May 2021. The new staff did not share our values, acted unilaterally to replace Freenode staff and policies, and aggressively displaced channel operators. The new Freenode staff includes people we know to be disruptive to productive communities. Libera is run by the old Freenode staff we had come to trust over years of cooperation.
2021-06-11 09:09:59	Hash	Looks like python been drinking that kool aid.
2021-06-11 09:10:28	Hash	SJW and child minded temper tantrum throwing freenodestaff broke IRC because they can't stand losing control.
2021-06-11 09:10:39	Hash	And here you're making these new innocent people out to be the bad guys.
2021-06-11 09:10:48	Hash	That's... low. Even for python people.
2021-06-11 09:11:12	--	Mode #python [+o habnabit] by ChanServ
2021-06-11 09:11:16	--	Mode #python [+b *!*Hash@unaffiliated/hash] by habnabit
2021-06-11 09:11:16	<--	habnabit has kicked Hash (so is this)
2021-06-11 09:11:21	--	Mode #python [-o habnabit] by habnabit
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2021-06-11 10:30:42	Ironman3000	Hello. I am trying to append data to a json file with python. Unfortunately It doesnt work and I cant find a solution. Could anybody help me? Heres the code: https://bpa.st/LWSA
2021-06-11 10:31:14	Ironman3000	the last else statement doesnt work
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2021-06-11 10:41:33	no_gravity	How do I define a single unnamed non-optional argument in argparse?
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2021-06-11 10:50:15	ironfroggy	Please see the first link in the topic to get help with your questions
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2021-06-11 10:53:20	nedbat	Ironman3000: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-11 10:53:24	nedbat	no_gravity: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
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2021-06-11 10:56:32	no_gravity	nedbat: Are you a bot?
2021-06-11 10:56:43	nedbat	no_gravity: no :)
2021-06-11 10:56:54	nedbat	no_gravity: but i know how to use keyboard macros
2021-06-11 10:56:56	ammar2	we are all bots on this blessed day
2021-06-11 10:56:58	no_gravity	nedbat: Well, I *am* on libera.
2021-06-11 10:57:18	nedbat	no_gravity: great!
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2021-06-11 11:03:32	no_gravity	Someone made a mistake when they decided to call the regular expression library just 're'.
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2021-06-11 11:23:14	giga84	hi
2021-06-11 11:23:32	giga84	i have a question regarding nimlang
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2021-06-11 11:24:23	ammar2	giga84: maybe try the nim channel? this is #python
2021-06-11 11:24:52	giga84	it's a legal question
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2021-06-11 11:25:02	giga84	not progamming
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2021-06-11 11:25:37	giga84	if a program or webapp is written in nimlang which uses javascript
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2021-06-11 11:25:58	giga84	won't it violate java terms and conditions
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2021-06-11 11:26:04	nedbat	giga84: what does this have to do with Python?
2021-06-11 11:26:26	giga84	ok
2021-06-11 11:26:28	giga84	bye
2021-06-11 11:26:44	nedbat	giga84: maybe try ##programming?
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2021-06-11 11:59:58	n00b101	Hello
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2021-06-11 12:00:08	n00b101	I've a simple flask socketio chat app. I have one socketio.connect(ip1).. now I can connect and chat with Bob while he's also running the same app. Now I also want to connect with Frank. Yes, I could disconnect existing socketio connection with Bob and then connect with Frank else with 2 connections, message from myself will be reached to 2 users. I don't want that. Now the question is -- is there any solution to
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2021-06-11 12:11:11	Tashtari	n00b101: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-11 14:10:43	gobostone	I'm having a weird problem, where my python site dirs are different in my emacs terminal (ssh+vterm) than they are in my standard login shell (ssh)
2021-06-11 14:10:53	gobostone	and I have no earthly idea how to debug it
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2021-06-11 14:11:49	Tashtari	gobostone: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-11 15:11:48	rcak	Hello! Doest anyone have suggestion for an open source alternative for the swagger inspector?
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2021-06-11 15:12:18	Tashtari	rcak: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-11 15:32:40	--	terps is now known as terpy
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2021-06-11 16:39:14	overyander	i'm using pyodbc. my query isn't putting any data in the table, am i doing something wrong here? https://bpa.st/ZFMQ
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2021-06-11 16:39:29	Tashtari	overyander: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-11 17:27:51	jwodder	Are there any libraries that enable equality testing against predicates like `data == {"field": MatchesRegex("foo")}`?  This would be useful for writing tests where some inner fields don't matter or can't be known ahead of time but do follow a structure.  It seems like something that would have been done, but I can't figure out the right search terms.
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2021-06-11 18:50:12	Nalt	Hello, where can I ask questions about using git?
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2021-06-11 18:51:39	Syzygy	Nalt, try #git
2021-06-11 18:51:50	Yhg1s	Nalt: you'll want to try it on libera instead of freenode, though.
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2021-06-11 18:52:16	Syzygy	Or here. I mean... seems easier.
2021-06-11 18:52:18	Yhg1s	Nalt: https://git-scm.com/community has information about IRC.
2021-06-11 18:52:24	Yhg1s	list #git
2021-06-11 18:52:28	Yhg1s	eh, /list #git.
2021-06-11 18:53:34	Nalt	Thanks. I joined the #git channel and I will ask my question there.
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2021-06-11 18:56:16	Nalt	Though perhaps it is not as active as I thought
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2021-06-11 18:57:30	Yhg1s	Nalt: like a lot of projects (including Python), it's moved to libera. (See https://www.pound-python.org for some background information.)
2021-06-11 18:58:25	Nalt	oh, hm
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2021-06-11 20:30:04	bn_work	hi, anyone know why jupyter-lab installed via Anaconda3 would suddenly cease launching with the following stack trace?  completely stumped as I've changed nothing :/ https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/iEpdF4Ou/jupyter-lab.py  seems like it's tripping up on decoding some sort of JSON but where??
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2021-06-11 20:35:27	bn_work	I'm guessing it's trying to parse the config file for jupyter-lab and barfing?
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2021-06-11 20:35:40	bn_work	s/jupyter-lab/jupyter notebook/
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2021-06-11 20:36:11	Tashtari	bn_work: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
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2021-06-11 20:55:37	runk_knullhora	 ╰⋃╯ 屪  B==D~  （@ㅅ@） <--- titties. This message has been endorsed by the official libera.chat staff. Updaes on the rasengan situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRDRFWNLrDk
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2021-06-12 04:41:55	foursyth3	Hey. Does Tensorflow support python3.8?
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2021-06-12 04:56:00	pileus	Hi, I'm trying to automate order my shopping online with selenium. I'm trying to get at data-date="2021-06-13" in this paste: https://bpa.st/ZSQA how would I access this? I have a list of all the li's from the parent ul, I just can't figure out how to get at this value
2021-06-12 04:56:47	pileus	If I can get at it I can find the one that's the coming Monday and then click the a
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2021-06-12 06:32:51	n00b101	https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Ku0tjhz7/IMG-20210612-WA0038.jpg
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2021-06-12 06:53:30	roxfan	nice
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2021-06-12 08:56:30	testnode	Hi all
2021-06-12 08:56:55	testnode	I have a string problem, but I don't know why  https://bpa.st/3ZEA
2021-06-12 09:02:40	fandre1986	Hi colleagues,
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2021-06-12 09:03:14	fandre1986	I want to import variables from a file.py like here but having an error https://bpa.st/CJLA
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2021-06-12 09:04:36	fandre1986	'region' will be defined on my script and I want to use the content of this variable to import given dictionary under design.py
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2021-06-12 09:05:26	nedbat	testnode, fandre1986: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.)
2021-06-12 09:06:22	testnode	eh?
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2021-06-12 09:06:59	fandre1986	could anybody give me a hint?
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2021-06-12 09:07:41	nedbat	testnode: do you have a specific question about the move?
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2021-06-12 09:08:15	testnode	no
2021-06-12 09:10:10	fandre1986	nedbat could you explain what this change means? I only use web irc. Should I install some program to keep using #python channel ?
2021-06-12 09:10:21	testnode	i don't know how to go to irc python  (irc.libera.chat) from wen.chat.freenode
2021-06-12 09:12:17	nedbat	testnode: you wanted `for j in range(1, len(x)-1)`.  You forgot "range"
2021-06-12 09:12:36	nedbat	fandre1986: details are at https://libera.chat
2021-06-12 09:13:08	nedbat	testnode: and also btw, the end point should be len(x), not len(x)-1
2021-06-12 09:13:46	testnode	you are right!!!!!
2021-06-12 09:14:13	testnode	thanks nedbat !
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2021-06-12 09:28:18	fandre1986	nedbat I have to register this name under liberia.chat ?
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2021-06-12 09:28:28	nedbat	yes, just like here
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2021-06-12 09:29:08	fandre1986	Should I login as guest first?
2021-06-12 09:29:24	fandre1986	You mean this steps ? https://libera.chat/guides/registration
2021-06-12 09:29:54	ChrisWarrick	(Also: I still think that Libera.Chat is really badly named.)
2021-06-12 09:30:56	fandre1986	what you mean?
2021-06-12 09:31:07	fandre1986	I only want to ask a python question....
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2021-06-12 09:38:17	nedbat	fandre1986: yes, you have to register your nick, just like you had to here.
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2021-06-12 09:48:05	fandre1986	Thanks! Done :)
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2021-06-12 09:54:17	bjs	ChrisWarrick: what would you have called it
2021-06-12 09:54:44	ChrisWarrick	bjs: I’m not good at naming either
2021-06-12 09:54:54	nedbat	bjs: threenode obviously
2021-06-12 09:54:59	ChrisWarrick	bjs: but too many people say "liberia chat" or mix it up with "liberairc"
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2021-06-12 09:55:30	bjs	and how exactly are you supposed to pronounce libera
2021-06-12 09:56:57	bjs	I think when people come up with names for things they should be required to provide proper spelling, pronunciation and typesetting guides for the new name
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2021-06-12 09:58:41	fandre1986	Is any reason for this change?
2021-06-12 09:58:53	fandre1986	at first glance liberia looks pretty much the same as here
2021-06-12 09:59:45	bjs	fandre1986: libera* is exactly the same as what this place was a month ago.  The same staff/admins using the same software pretty much
2021-06-12 10:00:19	nedbat	fandre1986: there are links at https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-12 10:00:24	bjs	fandre1986: https://www.pound-python.org/ has some links to explain,  b ut the long story is the old people got up and moved to a new place and then the new people (here at freenode) did some things that meant people moved with them
2021-06-12 10:00:48	bjs	there are now more people on libera's #python than here
2021-06-12 10:01:18	ChrisWarrick	you’ve got the idiots’ recent irccloud kline for that
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2021-06-12 10:02:33	bjs	oh is that what happened
2021-06-12 10:03:25	ChrisWarrick	I believe they lifted it some time afterwards
2021-06-12 10:03:27	bjs	irccloud is not small and one would've thought the staff would have them whitelisted
2021-06-12 10:04:02	bjs	ChrisWarrick: i am using irccloud, i did notice i got k-lined but i didn't realise it hit all of irccloud
2021-06-12 10:04:02	ChrisWarrick	I mean, they have special arrangements for gateway/ cloaks
2021-06-12 10:04:17	Intruder777	How do I design a class to make it free it's resources whenever any of it's methods crash with exception? E.g. in constructor of MyClass I have assigned `self.resource = createNewResource() # needs to cleaned` and then when I call `my_class_instance.method1(...)` which raises some exception - I want kind of destructor of MyClass called, which closes self.resource
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2021-06-12 10:04:58	bjs	ChrisWarrick: sure but when it comes to ip bans i mean,  it was obviously a mistake if they banned the entire irccloud space
2021-06-12 10:05:22	ChrisWarrick	bjs: I mean, all the competent staffers are on libera
2021-06-12 10:05:35	bjs	ChrisWarrick: this isn't even the first thing that seems to prove that
2021-06-12 10:05:46	ChrisWarrick	bjs: oh, I’m aware
2021-06-12 10:05:52	bjs	1/2 my channels got booted "by accident" and then I got k-lined "by accident"
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2021-06-12 10:06:05	ChrisWarrick	Intruder777: (1) python discussion is on libera.chat (2) why would raising an exception in a method lead to a resource being freed?
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2021-06-12 10:10:39	Intruder777	ChrisWarrick: well, because exception means that class instance has fallen into non-recoverable state and needs to be recreated/restarted. So if I recreate it again, I have a leak of those unclosed self.resource
2021-06-12 10:11:18	bjs	ChrisWarrick: I got K-lined yesterday,  but I can't find much online about others getting booted too
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2021-06-12 10:14:50	ChrisWarrick	Intruder777: what is the resource, exactly?
2021-06-12 10:15:29	Intruder777	ChrisWarrick: virtual display (creating it spawns process)
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2021-06-12 10:15:59	ChrisWarrick	Intruder777: ugh
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2021-06-12 10:16:12	ChrisWarrick	Intruder777: a try-except in the method would probably be the safest solution
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2021-06-12 10:18:43	ChrisWarrick	bjs: 2021-06-11 07:18:12     <--     bjs (sid190364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xyjmzmfdkwbhdqeu) has quit (K-Lined)
2021-06-12 10:18:58	bjs	ChrisWarrick: yeah I got K-lined but because I got K-lined I can't see the others who got K-lined :P
2021-06-12 10:18:58	ChrisWarrick	bjs: and `grep 'K-Lined' irc.freenode.#python.2021-06.log | grep '2021-06-11 07:18' | wc -l` says 60
2021-06-12 10:19:03	bjs	ah
2021-06-12 10:19:18	bjs	That sounds like an IP-ban-gone-wrong aka incompetent-staff :P
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2021-06-12 10:52:14	diverdude	hi, why can i not do open('https://somedomain.com/sample.json')  in python?
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2021-06-12 10:56:18	nedbat	diverdude: open() opens files on your computer. You can use requests.get(url) to get a URL
2021-06-12 10:56:30	nedbat	diverdude: also, this channel has moved to https://libera.chat #python. Most active users are there, so you're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.) Details about why are at https://www.pound-python.org
2021-06-12 10:57:21	diverdude	oh thanks
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2021-06-12 12:55:20	henistein	I need a function that generates unrepeated literals, per example, 'a', 'b', 'c' ... 'aa', 'ab', 'ac' . How can I do it in? Do I need to use a generator?
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2021-06-12 13:07:42	nedbat	henistein: a generator would be a good way.  btw, this channel has moved to https://libera.chat #python. Most active users are there, so you're more likely to get an answer there.  (Note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as LibraIRC in HexChat.) Details about why are at https://www.pound-python.org
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2021-06-12 13:20:04	proteus-guy	seriously nedbat - you need to put a four line advertisement for a competing irc service in every message you post here?
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2021-06-12 13:27:19	nedbat	proteus-guy: i'm letting people know how they can get the help they are looking for
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2021-06-12 13:28:23	nedbat	proteus-guy: hey come here and see 835 people, but no one is talking, which is mysterious. I'm explaining the mystery.
2021-06-12 13:28:38	fujisan	hi nedbat
2021-06-12 13:28:42	nedbat	fujisan: hi
2021-06-12 13:28:59	fujisan	i was reading a book about Python today and i think you were mentioned in  it
2021-06-12 13:29:20	nedbat	fujisan: some misguided author who thought I was significant? :)
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2021-06-12 13:30:52	fujisan	4 I first saw the term “Unicode sandwich” in Ned Batchelder’s excellent “Pragmatic Unicode” talk at US PyCon 2012.
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2021-06-12 13:31:06	fujisan	from the book Fluent in Python
2021-06-12 13:31:06	nedbat	fujisan: is that Fluent Python?
2021-06-12 13:31:08	nedbat	nice :)
2021-06-12 13:31:09	fujisan	page 115
2021-06-12 13:31:10	fujisan	yeah
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2021-06-12 13:32:13	Tashtari	proteus-guy: It's only one line if your terminal window is wide enough
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2021-06-12 13:40:29	fujisan	Why is Klingon not in Unicode?
2021-06-12 13:41:11	nedbat	fujisan: because it's not an actual human language.  There is an encoding of it into the private use space if you want
2021-06-12 13:41:23	fujisan	oh okay
2021-06-12 13:41:55	fujisan	thanks
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2021-06-12 13:54:05	bjs	nedbat: these unicode people,  who are they to say what counts as human language or not! :P
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2021-06-12 13:55:19	proteus-guy	nedbat, why don't we let freenode also have a python community. why so intent on tearing it down?
2021-06-12 13:55:35	bjs	proteus-guy: nothing is stopping there being a Python community on freenode
2021-06-12 13:56:30	bjs	it's just that the PSF will only advertise (and maybe even only endorse) one place (irc.libera.chat #python)
2021-06-12 13:57:02	bjs	nothing stops non-PSF people having their own communities here in Freenode,  But frankly the irc numbers are so low it'd be a mistake to split the community
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2021-06-12 13:57:09	proteus-guy	bjs, to op constantly telling people to go elsewhere is, at best, rude, and at worst, immoral. It takes orders of magnitude more effort to build up a community like that of freenode than it does for some team of misguided entitled brats to destroy it.
2021-06-12 13:57:38	proteus-guy	if PSF and libera wanna run off and go elsewhere fine - but quit trying to hurt the freenode community.
2021-06-12 13:58:06	bjs	proteus-guy: hmm,  that's fair.  But it's freenode's own policy that single-hash channels are official project channels
2021-06-12 13:58:17	bjs	and that means this particular channel is not yours or mine,  it's the PSFs
2021-06-12 13:58:39	nedbat	proteus-guy: if you'll notice, i answered the question. you are free to be here to answer questions. I have not seen people doing that.
2021-06-12 13:58:53	bjs	or ask questions indeed
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2021-06-12 13:59:40	bjs	quite a few people answer here still, and nobody is _telling_ people to go elsewhere (at least not yet?). It's all just reminders to people that there is also a community at libera and their questions might get answered quicker there
2021-06-12 13:59:41	nedbat	proteus-guy: to be honest, i'm not sure why you are more attached to a domain name and collection of machines than you are to a group of people. "the freenode community" as a group of people is now elsewhere.
2021-06-12 13:59:55	bjs	I mean in the end the point of the "community" is to answer questions and talk about Python
2021-06-12 14:00:01	bjs	not to be under freenode.net
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2021-06-12 14:00:42	proteus-guy	nedbat, I've known you for years but I really didn't think you to be this "un-genteel" to think it was polite to use someone else's resources to move their customers over to a competitor that is intent on destroying them. how do you live with yourself?
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2021-06-12 14:01:05	bjs	proteus-guy: nedbat like others has known the freenode staff for ages
2021-06-12 14:01:08	bjs	and wants to stay with them
2021-06-12 14:01:19	nedbat	proteus-guy: no one is intent on destroying freenode. We are choosing to use another network because it is run by people we trust.
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2021-06-12 14:01:32	proteus-guy	bjs, if people wanna do that at freenode fine. if they wanna do it elsewhere then fine. quit trying to damage the one at freenode. it hurts the python community in general.
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2021-06-12 14:01:52	nedbat	proteus-guy: have you noticed how little conversation happens here?
2021-06-12 14:01:54	proteus-guy	nedbat, I don't recall the local community being consulted as to whether or not they wanted to move. you decided for them.
2021-06-12 14:02:04	nedbat	proteus-guy: they were free to stay here and talk.
2021-06-12 14:02:08	bjs	and still are
2021-06-12 14:02:12	nedbat	proteus-guy: i have no power to move them
2021-06-12 14:02:33	proteus-guy	nedbat, yes I have so you've done your job so why not shove off and leave so those who wanna stay here can move forward without your nonsense?
2021-06-12 14:02:43	arunkhattri	in fact i wanted to be in freenode not in libera..
2021-06-12 14:02:45	nedbat	proteus-guy: stay. answer questions.
2021-06-12 14:02:57	nedbat	arunkhattri: and here you are! win-win :)
2021-06-12 14:03:20	arunkhattri	it seems somehow i am in libera...
2021-06-12 14:03:29	nedbat	arunkhattri: this is freenode
2021-06-12 14:03:31	proteus-guy	honestly you're the freaking op and behavior like yours should really be banned on any proper run channel.
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2021-06-12 14:04:09	nedbat	proteus-guy: people want help, and I want to get them help.
2021-06-12 14:04:25	proteus-guy	nedbat, you're not helping. you're being divisive.
2021-06-12 14:04:44	nedbat	proteus-guy: i'm explaining to people why this channel is so quiet.
2021-06-12 14:04:59	arunkhattri	can we talk python, have some problem with selenium and chat-forms
2021-06-12 14:05:06	nedbat	arunkhattri: what's going on?
2021-06-12 14:05:23	nedbat	arunkhattri: i don't use selenium, so probably won't know the answer.
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2021-06-12 14:05:45	nedbat	arunkhattri: i have some ideas of where other people might be who might know the answer, but it angers some people when I say where they are.
2021-06-12 14:06:41	bjs	proteus-guy: I mean in the end *this* channel is run by the PSF and the PSF can decide to move to somewhere else, or use a different channel with their own authority.   I don't think the attachment to the domain name is so strong and frankly there are more people in libera than here,  and people were amassing in comparable numbers there before the libera channel was even officially registered by the PSF
2021-06-12 14:06:48	arunkhattri	would be happy to know the place, since 3 hours struggling with the issue,
2021-06-12 14:07:04	Tashtari	arunkhattri: This channel has moved to irc.libera.chat #python and most active users have moved already.  You're more likely to get an answer there.  (If you're using HexChat, note that irc.libera.chat is not the same as 'LibraIRC'.)
2021-06-12 14:07:24	-->	akaWolf (~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf) has joined #python
2021-06-12 14:07:42	arunkhattri	using irc emacs
2021-06-12 14:08:47	bjs	proteus-guy: if I'm honest, the reason *I* am personally pro-libera is because the new staff here at freenode "accidentally" took over 1/2 the channels I was in then "accidentally" K-lined me;  all because the staff here don't seem to actually know how to use the irc services
2021-06-12 14:08:56	Tashtari	arunkhattri: Not familiar with how that client works, but if you set it to connect to irc.libera.chat, you should be good.
2021-06-12 14:09:05	bjs	(which tbh,  nor would I,  but I've not decided to take over a large irc network and install myself as staff)
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2021-06-12 14:09:40	Tashtari	arunkhattri: https://libera.chat/guides/connect  More info on connecting in general is available here.
2021-06-12 14:10:10	proteus-guy	bjs, they apologized and fixed the issue which was a reaction to an existential attack on their network. (which this channel's ops continue to execute). Meanwhile the libera people haven't apologized for destroying communities that were built over decades or for trying to steal the freenode DNS registration.
2021-06-12 14:10:40	nedbat	proteus-guy: do you know anything about selenium?
2021-06-12 14:11:06	nedbat	proteus-guy: the #python IRC community has not been destroyed, it's alive and well.
2021-06-12 14:11:51	bjs	proteus-guy: people keep saying they "fixed" but the channels are still dead, I cannot join them.  It was not a reaction to an "attack" on their network, that is just silly. You don't unleash a regex-powered kill bot on every channel on your network only targetting the /TOPIC if you're worried about spam.  The TOPICS are controlled by ops for god sake not random spammers
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2021-06-12 14:12:31	bjs	At the very least it was gross incompetence,  and the fact they didn't undo it immediately means either it wasn't an "issue that they fixed" or it's because they don't know how to undo it and I'm not sure which is worse...
2021-06-12 14:13:41	KirkMcDonald	It can of course be both.
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2021-06-12 14:15:53	proteus-guy	bjs, you're welcome to leave. I haven't yet encountered a channel owner who hasn't regained control over his channel so I don't know what you're talking about.
2021-06-12 14:16:40	KirkMcDonald	The fact that they would need to ask for it back in the first place is a staggering violation of trust.
2021-06-12 14:16:43	bjs	proteus-guy: like half of the channels I were in have decided they would rather not plead with the staff every time they push the wrong button because they don't know what they're doing and are staying with the old staff.
2021-06-12 14:16:48	bjs	and the old network they know and trust
2021-06-12 14:17:15	bjs	Individuals like me are free to be in both :)
2021-06-12 14:17:33	bjs	until they K-line me or remove the channels i'm in "accidentally" ... again ...
2021-06-12 14:17:50	Tashtari	arunkhattri: Are you having any success in connecting to irc.libera.chat?
2021-06-12 14:18:00	proteus-guy	KirkMcDonald, you all have a staggering sense of entitlement and dismissal against one network by judging freenode by any mistake ever made and giving libera the benefit of the doubt despite the clear attacks it has made without remorse. freaking woke idiots.
2021-06-12 14:18:32	arunkhattri	no, in hex its saying unknown server
2021-06-12 14:18:54	bjs	proteus-guy: what attacks?  and it's not like libera is new
2021-06-12 14:19:02	bjs	the name is new, but everything else is old
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2021-06-12 14:19:26	Tashtari	arunkhattri: Ah, you're using hexchat?  Try this guide instead: https://libera.chat/guides/hexchat
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2021-06-12 14:20:47	nedbat	proteus-guy: there are other concerns. there are now people on freenode staff who were known to us as persistent trouble-makers.  We don't trust the current staff for a number of reasons.
2021-06-12 14:21:06	proteus-guy	nedbat, then leave ned. quit attacking the community here.
2021-06-12 14:21:07	nedbat	proteus-guy: if you care about the #python community, you should care about the people.  You know where to find them.
2021-06-12 14:21:15	nedbat	proteus-guy: the community is fine.
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2021-06-12 14:21:47	proteus-guy	nedbat, we'll just have to agree to disagree but it's wrong for you to hassle every person who posts a message here and tell them to go elsewhere. that's called being a dick.
2021-06-12 14:21:51	bjs	proteus-guy: the community _here_, as in this channel, has been mostly unaffected.  #python in the new place is basically all of the regulars I recongise that actually answered questions and here is pretty quiet
2021-06-12 14:22:08	proteus-guy	and it's not how I expect someone on the PSF to behave frankly.
2021-06-12 14:22:13	bjs	proteus-guy: people come here to this channel not because they love the domain,  but because they want to talk the Python IRC community about Python
2021-06-12 14:22:22	nedbat	proteus-guy: you are hassling me. I have explained this a few times before: I am explaining how best to get help.
2021-06-12 14:22:26	bjs	nedbat is just pointing to where they can do that, it's a perfectly sensible and reasonable thing to do
2021-06-12 14:22:43	proteus-guy	seriously my opinion of you and the PSF is shot to hell and I've been a hard core supported since 2000.
2021-06-12 14:22:46	nedbat	proteus-guy: should we review logs and see how many times people thank me for that message?
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2021-06-12 14:23:07	proteus-guy	nedbat, the network split isn't a secret.
2021-06-12 14:23:29	bjs	proteus-guy: lots of people do not know
2021-06-12 14:23:37	bjs	I personally only recommend the new channel to people I've helped before
2021-06-12 14:23:40	bjs	and lots did not even know.
2021-06-12 14:23:42	nedbat	proteus-guy: many people are not as invested in the irc foundations as you and i are.  they often need to hear about it.
2021-06-12 14:23:43	proteus-guy	you seriously think your actions don't hurt the ability for freenode to establish and maintain a python community?
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2021-06-12 14:24:09	nedbat	proteus-guy: can you help me understand what freenode is doing to establish and maintain a python community?
2021-06-12 14:24:23	bjs	not much if you're french :P
2021-06-12 14:24:41	proteus-guy	geez nedbat - it's been here for how many decades? YOU are the one splitting it.
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2021-06-12 14:25:04	bjs	proteus-guy: the community is what's important, not the domain name
2021-06-12 14:25:09	Peng	Rip nedbat
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2021-06-19 11:12:44	-->	wymillerlinux (~wyatt@freenode-0ct.3jb.lo0a31.IP) has joined #python
2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Topic for #python is "Anything Python is on-topic. | Don't paste, use https://bpa.st/+python | Tutorial: https://j.mp/MCAhYx"
2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Topic set by palasso (~palasso@freenode/user/palasso) on Wed, 16 Jun 2021 17:31:53
2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Channel #python: 10 nicks (0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normals)
2021-06-19 11:12:50	--	Channel created on Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:42:42