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2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Topic for ##rust is "Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language |  Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Topic set by Manishearth (~Manishear@wikipedia/Manishearth) on Sun, 12 May 2019 23:47:40
2021-05-12 22:21:13	--	Channel ##rust: 699 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 698 normals)
2021-05-12 22:21:15	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-05-12 23:11:17	hskdif__	jbg: I am leaning towards Rust after what you said... I can use Actix Web for the application backend, and use a Rust library for all cross-platform algorithms in the client apps. And then just thin GUI wrappers per platform.
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2021-05-13 04:32:04	trevarj	is there any way to match on an enum with a boxed variant in one pattern? i.e enum like Foo::Bar(Box<Baz>), and i want to match foo { Foo::Bar(some_baz) => {..} }
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2021-05-13 04:34:20	trevarj	i messed up, Baz is another enum with variants
2021-05-13 04:34:25	Arnavion	No. Requires box patterns, and that's unstable
2021-05-13 04:36:18	trevarj	LOL yeah i just found it by randomly writing 'box' in front
2021-05-13 04:36:41	trevarj	is it bad to use it?
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2021-05-13 04:37:29	jbg	define 'bad'
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2021-05-13 04:38:01	jbg	requires nightly compiler, not guaranteed to remain compatible with the way it works now
2021-05-13 04:38:09	jbg	whether those things are bad or not depends on you
2021-05-13 04:38:30	trevarj	well the alternative is to allow the clippy warning of having a large enum variant
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2021-05-13 04:39:11	Arnavion	The tracking issue says as of 2020/08 that "people are looking at [match ergonomics] now", but given that match ergonomics was implemented and doesn't support unboxing I'm not sure what the current status is
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2021-05-13 04:40:18	trevarj	the variant is only +300 bytes from the next largest variant. i don't know how to gauge how ineffient that would be
2021-05-13 04:40:26	trevarj	inefficient
2021-05-13 04:40:37	Arnavion	How big is the smallest one
2021-05-13 04:42:03	trevarj	1 byte? whatever a plain variant is
2021-05-13 04:42:23	Arnavion	So the smallest is empty and the largest is 300 bytes?
2021-05-13 04:42:42	trevarj	largest would be 1100
2021-05-13 04:43:08	Arnavion	Yeah you should probably box that then
2021-05-13 04:43:51	Arnavion	The point of the lint is that anything that needs to deal with the num has to deal with a 1100-byte value, even if only <8 bytes of that value are actual data
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2021-05-13 04:44:08	Arnavion	so you reduce the disparity by making every variant ~16 bytes
2021-05-13 04:44:29	trevarj	second largest (unboxed) is 764...somehow it doesn't warn for that one
2021-05-13 04:45:43	trevarj	ugh someone already put allow large enum variants on other types in the file
2021-05-13 04:46:26	trevarj	moral quandary of following or doing the right thing...
2021-05-13 04:46:28	Arnavion	I #[allow] it myself, but I also never made an enum with one variant that's 0 bytes and another that's 1100
2021-05-13 04:46:58	Arnavion	What do you even have in there, an inline byte buffer or something?
2021-05-13 04:46:59	trevarj	it's like a giant Request struct
2021-05-13 04:47:10	trevarj	with all different types of requests
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2021-05-13 04:56:06	osa1	hm, it's really unfortunate that proc macros dependencies are built in debug mode when building debug mode binaries
2021-05-13 04:56:32	Arnavion	You can override it, but you have to override it
2021-05-13 04:57:24	osa1	how do I override it? I've been searching for it but all I found is open GH issues about it
2021-05-13 04:57:26	Arnavion	https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/reference/profiles.html#overrides
2021-05-13 04:57:39	osa1	oooh, nice, thanks
2021-05-13 04:58:34	Arnavion	They specifically don't want to default proc macros to compile as release because they worry about build time, even though runtime will be better
2021-05-13 04:59:45	Arnavion	so basically it's left to you to figure out whether longer build time compensates for shorter runtime for your particular dep graph or not
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2021-05-13 05:02:36	osa1	it's still unfortunate that I have to tell this to every user of my proc macro crate. if I could tell, in my proc macro crate, to always build it optimized, that would also be helpful.
2021-05-13 05:02:55	Arnavion	Yes
2021-05-13 05:05:14	Arnavion	(   https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/5622   )
2021-05-13 05:05:23	osa1	I have a simple case where if I run my proc macro's computation using debug build it takes 16 seconds, vs. 0.6 second in release build
2021-05-13 05:05:26	j`ey	Arnavion: still typing links?
2021-05-13 05:05:47	Arnavion	j`ey: No, it got fixed some time ago
2021-05-13 05:05:52	j`ey	good!
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2021-05-13 08:37:11	davros	would it be horrible to implemnet From<()> for T{...::default()..}    ... write ().into() in places you want to pass a default initialized T, where the type is known   alternatively, "fn default<T:Default>(){return T::default()}..     by analogy i have "fn one<T:One>()", "fn zero.."
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2021-05-13 08:37:41	j`ey	why not just call T::default()?
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2021-05-13 08:39:14	flandish	o/
2021-05-13 08:39:58	j`ey	I suppose fn default<T: Default>() -> T, saves you writing the type name..
2021-05-13 08:41:17	jbg	you already can just write Default::default()
2021-05-13 08:41:56	j`ey	saves you writing Default:: too :P
2021-05-13 08:45:04	j`ey	ah https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/default/fn.default.html
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2021-05-13 08:49:22	davros	^^^ yes; saving writing the type name is what its about
2021-05-13 08:49:39	davros	ah great they already did it
2021-05-13 08:50:28	davros	and they show a nice use case... "initialize some struct fields, set the rest to ..default()"
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2021-05-13 09:13:19	bertptrs	Is it possible for a type containing an UnsafeCell to be sync if it's guarded in some way?
2021-05-13 09:17:51	dalcde	*sigh* Rust makes me forget to type `return` in all other languages
2021-05-13 09:18:25	dalcde	And since some languages *ahem* are untyped this manifests itself in weird bugs instead of exploding in my face
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2021-05-13 09:21:41	bertptrs	It appearrs it is, because my implementation is roughly equivalent to the current implementation of std::lazy::SyncOnceCell;
2021-05-13 09:22:48	dalcde	I'd imagine Arc is written with UnsafeCell
2021-05-13 09:23:09	dalcde	Oh it's not
2021-05-13 09:23:32	bertptrs	Why would it be?
2021-05-13 09:24:07	dalcde	https://doc.rust-lang.org/core/cell/struct.UnsafeCell.html
2021-05-13 09:24:13	flandish	dalcde - I'm always forgetting that you don't always need a final ; in the last statement in a fn, etc. lol.
2021-05-13 09:24:14	dalcde	Ah
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2021-05-13 09:24:22	trevarj	maybe you meant mutex/rwlock?
2021-05-13 09:24:26	dalcde	Yeah ^
2021-05-13 09:24:31	bertptrs	That makes more sense, yes
2021-05-13 09:24:32	dalcde	>
2021-05-13 09:24:32	dalcde	All other types that allow internal mutability, such as Cell<T> and RefCell<T>, internally use UnsafeCell to wrap their data.
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2021-05-13 09:24:48	dalcde	There you go: https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/std/sync/rwlock.rs.html#68-72
2021-05-13 09:25:11	xenon-	hi. is there an "escape hatch" for orphan rule? I'd only use it for personal non-library code
2021-05-13 09:25:24	dalcde	No.
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2021-05-13 09:25:51	j`ey	newtypes are the escape hatch
2021-05-13 09:26:04	dalcde	Well that's no so much of an escape hatch than a proper solution
2021-05-13 09:27:01	xenon-	I realize about newtype solution, but that can lead to combinatorial explosion of wrapper classes
2021-05-13 09:30:46	 *	flandish sits in meeting upon meeting today... :/
2021-05-13 09:31:03	trevarj	what is orphan rule?
2021-05-13 09:31:18	trevarj	can't you just impl Deref on the newtype and call it a day?
2021-05-13 09:31:47	j`ey	trevarj: cant implement an external trait on an external type
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2021-05-13 09:47:06	trevarj	j`ey right. thanks
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2021-05-13 09:49:28	davros	Rc<T> .. is a pair of pointers ? (ptr to object, ptr to shared refcount) .. to allow transparently refcounting any T
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2021-05-13 09:50:32	davros	before i write it..    is there a "thin refcounted ptr"    eg  ThinRcPtr<T> --->      Refcounted<T>  {  count:usize, data:T }    /*thin RcPtr = 1 ptr */
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2021-05-13 09:52:57	yuri6037	Hi, I have some question about doc in rust. Is there an equivalent of cargo doc which does a listen + auto-recompile as you modify thing? A bit like webpack dev server in JS?
2021-05-13 09:53:43	j`ey	cargo watch
2021-05-13 09:53:57	j`ey	not a builtin
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2021-05-13 09:54:55	yuri6037	Second question: Do you know some VSCode extension or external tool that could help generating doc comments. Like in C++ with doxygen you have a VSCode extension that auto-populates the base of a comment block by typing /**ENTER.
2021-05-13 09:55:15	yuri6037	Does this kind of tool exist for Rust?
2021-05-13 09:56:39	Yaniel	rust-analyzer does something along those lines, not sure if it does it for doc comments yet
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2021-05-13 10:04:07	yuri6037	j`ey: Thanks a lot for cargo watch this will help me in writing docs
2021-05-13 10:04:39	yuri6037	Only catch is it seem to pump battery a bit faster on this computer
2021-05-13 10:05:37	Yaniel	cargo watch should use inotify if it can so it doesn't use any battery when nothing has changed
2021-05-13 10:06:03	yuri6037	or maybe was it initial compile
2021-05-13 10:06:17	Yaniel	that is possible
2021-05-13 10:06:37	yuri6037	when watch is ran first it starts by a first build perhaps is this + firefox open that is pumping my battery
2021-05-13 10:06:38	Yaniel	also the latest rust update disabled incremental compilation by default due to a bug
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2021-05-13 10:07:13	j`ey	o_O
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2021-05-13 10:28:30	capitol	that this doesn't compile: a.replace(&[' ', '\n'], ""), but this does: a.replace(&[' ', '\n'][..], "") is not the most easy to understand syntaxt
2021-05-13 10:29:46	Yaniel	yeah it would be nice if &[T; N] could implicitly turn into &[T]
2021-05-13 10:30:36	Mutabah	It can... if the compiler knows it needs to
2021-05-13 10:30:41	Mutabah	but trait bounds kinda break that
2021-05-13 10:31:08	Mutabah	Another (better) solution would be for a `Pattern` impl for `&[T: Pattern; N]`
2021-05-13 10:33:48	capitol	but that solution is quite new, right?
2021-05-13 10:35:33	Mutabah	Yeah, and also not sure if it exists yet?
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2021-05-13 10:36:34	christian	Hi! Is there any way to assign variables via pattern matching from a vector? I see that you can do something like `let (a, b) = fn_that_returns_2
2021-05-13 10:36:36	christian	_tuple`
2021-05-13 10:37:08	j`ey	a tuple or vector?
2021-05-13 10:37:09	christian	but can I do that with a vector as well? Something like Haskell's let (a, b, c, d, e, _) = "abcde_whatever" in random stuff
2021-05-13 10:37:23	christian	An actual vector.
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2021-05-13 10:38:39	christian	Something like: let (c1, c2, c3) = vec!['a', 'b', 'c'];
2021-05-13 10:39:06	j`ey	christian: what if the vector isn't long enough?
2021-05-13 10:39:16	christian	I am 100% sure it is.
2021-05-13 10:39:58	j`ey	you can do it with an array, but not a vec
2021-05-13 10:40:12	christian	See, I want to use the pom crate to write a parser and I don't want to write all the definitions as just sym(whatever_character)
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2021-05-13 10:40:38	christian	So I thought I could put them into a string, split them on whitespace, map them with sym and collect them into variables, if that makes sense
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2021-05-13 10:46:58	bertptrs	davros: Rc is implemented almost like that, it holds a pointer to an RcBox { strong: Cell<usize>, weak: Cell<usize>, value: T }
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2021-05-13 11:30:20	osse	I do something like this: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=ee47b253dbb90b74833e7d36e518edc2 . TL;DR: I need to provide my own buffers for the functions I am calling to write to. I find it a bit tedious to make new buffers all over, so tried this: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=44156bdab0930992d003262e59105340
2021-05-13 11:30:58	osse	That doesn't work, and the error makes sense, but I am not sure how to fix it. Does it even make sense?
2021-05-13 11:32:15	osse	I hope there's some existing type/crate I can use, or a pattern I can follow.
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2021-05-13 12:04:12	GreenJello	osse, you could return an index or newtype containing an index, and have a store.get(index) or similar that returns the matching buffer
2021-05-13 12:05:17	GreenJello	more generally you need to insert, insert, borrow, borrow, release, release. Not insert, borrow, insert, borrow, release, release
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2021-05-13 12:16:34	osse	GreenJello: that seems much simpler than I'd like to admit.
2021-05-13 12:16:36	osse	Thanks!
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2021-05-13 12:26:02	davros	bertptrs, oh actually thats close enough already then, for the purpose i had in mind the dual refcounts isn't really a problem. although now i remind myself i'd rather also see a version with a typaram for the refcount itself (eg support u32 refcount when you know you aren't going to have more than 4billion refs..)
2021-05-13 12:29:17	bertptrs	I reckon that any system that ever has an Rc with 4b references is doing somthing wrong, but I think in this case consistency (always using usize for an amount) mattered more than efficiency
2021-05-13 12:33:08	davros	i have to remember this language could run on servers, not just my 16gb PC
2021-05-13 12:34:01	osse	GreenJello: hmm, that still means I need a separate call to my Store prior to each use, right? I cannot have a store.do_the_needful(). If I pre-allocate a bunch of buffers I need need to keep track of which one to return next, ie. it need to mutate self.
2021-05-13 12:34:12	davros	(but for my purposes any index , refcount etc.. no single array of things will have more than 4billion instances)
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2021-05-13 12:38:43	bertptrs	most systems won't but "usize for length", "isize for difference", and "size_of::<usize>() == size_of::<*const i32>()" just makes the language more consistent and usually it doesn't make a difference. people make the same argument for 32bit pointers being more efficient but in the end the gains are small
2021-05-13 12:39:23	davros	consider polygon mesh datastructures, they are index heavy
2021-05-13 12:40:31	davros	so if i know all my vertex indices are stored as 32bits - there's synergy with the ergonomics in the actual indexing op
2021-05-13 12:42:04	bertptrs	you're right, my statements require an "in general" asterisk
2021-05-13 12:42:09	davros	(i almost think its worth having a kind of target between 32 & 64bit.. 64bit ptrs but 32bit indices (a seperate 'index type').. its this middle ground between two 'bit-sizes' where one size is not enough but the other size is definitely overkill , so you need to use a mix)
2021-05-13 12:43:09	davros	these are the two things that hit me in rust doing graphics programming :)  .. ergonomic hit of 32bit indices and doing anything with floats ... main data being manipulated is 32bit indiecs into arrays of float things :)
2021-05-13 12:43:26	davros	of course these issues are workaroundable
2021-05-13 12:43:51	davros	i just wish they had listened to people like me pre 1.0..
2021-05-13 12:44:26	davros	the idea of a seperate 'natural index type for the build' (or a plugin index<,I>) could be in the stdlib
2021-05-13 12:44:33	davros	could have been^
2021-05-13 12:45:12	davros	i bet theres little microcontroller use cases like this aswell (little just over 16bit machines) .. and theres these funny ai chip with 64k localstores
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2021-05-13 13:05:16	bertptrs	it has its uses. not sure if it would outweigh the downsides. one platform-dependent cast (usize ⋄ fixed size) is already quite inconvenient, writing portable code becomes even harder if you add another
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2021-05-13 14:19:43	amahl	I'm mostly just annoyed at having to typecast u8,u16 and u32 to usize. writing [i as usize] instead of [i] bloats array-accessing code a lot. and I don't want to use usize variables because 1000s of structs are stored in memory and should be small. with small members
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2021-05-13 14:22:16	amahl	maybe I could wrap array in a container type that accepts all integer types inside indexing operator
2021-05-13 14:22:36	j`ey	yup, it's a decent approach
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2021-05-13 17:11:49	_Vi	Is incremental compilation still active by default (without RUSTC_FORCE_INCREMENTAL) in dev profile in nightly?
2021-05-13 17:12:50	j`ey	it sounded like it from the 1.52.1 post
2021-05-13 17:13:21	j`ey	"We are also currently not planning to disable incremental on the beta channel, but this decision has not been firmly committed to", and i suppose nightly
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2021-05-13 17:21:25	_Vi	Would it be reasonable to always have incremental compilation non-disabled on nightly, as users of nightly are expected to be better prepared for handling compiler bugs?
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2021-05-13 17:22:40	j`ey	yes
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2021-05-13 17:26:34	_Vi	Does Reddit thread about this 1.52.1 suggest that bug density in incremental compilation is so high that it is basically unusable with the fingerprint verifier active? This can inhibit nightly user.
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2021-05-13 17:40:32	Alexendoo	_Vi: The most commonly hit one is fixed in nightly, I think a couple others are too
2021-05-13 17:40:36	snake	how would you take a String that was read from user input or a file, and stuff it into a str&
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2021-05-13 17:41:05	j`ey	snake: you dont
2021-05-13 17:41:07	snake	also is it possible to appropriately name lifetimes or are they just random letters/strings like 'a, 'b
2021-05-13 17:41:10	_Vi	snake, `&*your_string` ?
2021-05-13 17:41:24	j`ey	snake: yeah you can use whatever names you want!
2021-05-13 17:41:43	snake	j`ey, example? like what would be a good name for a lifetime?
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2021-05-13 17:42:11	snake	'function_life, 'will_get_moved
2021-05-13 17:42:13	snake	idk
2021-05-13 17:42:28	j`ey	'ctx
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2021-05-13 17:42:35	snake	what does that mean
2021-05-13 17:42:39	j`ey	context
2021-05-13 17:42:45	snake	uh
2021-05-13 17:42:48	j`ey	'pool, stuff like that
2021-05-13 17:43:04	snake	like a swimming pool?
2021-05-13 17:43:07	snake	:x
2021-05-13 17:43:12	_Vi	snake, Yes, longer lifetime names are supported, but it is rather customary to use single letter ones, especially if there is only one lifetime.
2021-05-13 17:43:14	j`ey	like a thread pool
2021-05-13 17:43:18	Alexendoo	'a and 'b are like the T and U of lifetimes, most of the time you just leave them as that
2021-05-13 17:43:27	snake	it bugs me
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2021-05-13 17:43:35	snake	j`ey, oh i don't know too much about threads i guess
2021-05-13 17:43:56	snake	but i guess pool would indicate that it will live as long a a thread does?
2021-05-13 17:44:51	j`ey	well live as long as the thread pool
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2021-05-13 17:51:32	snake	yeah i want to like rust, mostly because cargo seems pretty good and i dislike cmake, but it is harder in its own way
2021-05-13 17:52:15	snake	than c++
2021-05-13 17:52:24	snake	hmm
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2021-05-13 18:01:24	snake	think i just made things awkward lol my bad
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2021-05-13 18:02:06	manicennui	I'm struggling with something similar, but C++ seems way more complex.
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2021-05-13 18:02:30	manicennui	Especially when you consider all of the different versions of C++ you might have to deal with.
2021-05-13 18:02:35	snake	yeah true
2021-05-13 18:02:55	manicennui	And how common it is to drop into C-like code.
2021-05-13 18:03:21	manicennui	The lifetimes actually don't bother me in Rust.
2021-05-13 18:04:38	snake	well if i'm using String i guess i won't need to worry about that for now anyways haha
2021-05-13 18:05:08	manicennui	I didn't care for some of the implicit behavior around references and copy/clone/move, which many people in the Rust community seem to want more of.
2021-05-13 18:05:44	manicennui	But I'm guessing some of that goes away with enough experience.
2021-05-13 18:06:11	snake	yeah moving is unexpected for many programmers, but in rust it is the default behavior right?
2021-05-13 18:06:21	manicennui	Depends on the type.
2021-05-13 18:06:33	manicennui	And the context.
2021-05-13 18:08:34	manicennui	If the type has the Copy trait, move will not be the default behavior.
2021-05-13 18:08:48	manicennui	(I'm sure I'm explaining this horribly.)
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2021-05-13 18:11:36	manicennui	I think that is one of the things I was a bit miffed about: having to know whether a move or a copy was going to happen.
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2021-05-13 18:11:53	manicennui	Perhaps a good IDE could make this obvious for each type, but I hate depending on such things.
2021-05-13 18:11:58	j`ey	why?
2021-05-13 18:12:04	manicennui	I like things to be explicit.
2021-05-13 18:12:13	manicennui	And easy to reason about.
2021-05-13 18:12:25	j`ey	just assume things are move then
2021-05-13 18:12:28	manicennui	And not require my memorizing large portions of the standard library that I might use.
2021-05-13 18:12:47	j`ey	then look it up for things you want to copy!
2021-05-13 18:13:07	manicennui	Sure, I'm not saying it is insurmountable, but it did give me pause.
2021-05-13 18:13:24	manicennui	And I'm sure it would get better with experience.
2021-05-13 18:13:34	j`ey	having to be explicit about Copy would probably be too unwieldly
2021-05-13 18:15:16	manicennui	Having spent some time learning about move/copy semantics in C++, I know that it could be worse. =P
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2021-05-13 18:29:11	davros	manicennui,  unfortunately i think you need to concede that leaning on the IDE will happen
2021-05-13 18:29:38	davros	manicennui,   the burden of safe programming without a GC means alot of helper functions which means you need an IDE to help find them , track types etc
2021-05-13 18:29:39	 *	manicennui holds vim tightly.
2021-05-13 18:30:05	davros	rusts safety does not come for free.. it has its own cost
2021-05-13 18:30:11	manicennui	Sure.
2021-05-13 18:30:31	davros	i have come to accept relying on an IDE... ever since using C++ with overloads
2021-05-13 18:30:32	manicennui	I think I need to spend more time with it before I really form an opinion on what I want to do.
2021-05-13 18:30:57	davros	writing in C you name everything such that text autocomplete can find it from little prefixes. in c++ you need the IDE to find all the methods
2021-05-13 18:31:18	manicennui	I've mostly dealt with dynamic languages or small bits of statically typed code with GC. I've managed to get by without an IDE to this point.
2021-05-13 18:31:34	dalcde	Or you can just remember the methods.
2021-05-13 18:31:57	davros	move by default feels weird at first but it's sane for passing bits of state around; it's actually the 'maths case' of plain copy types that are the exception, so you mark those explicitely
2021-05-13 18:32:00	j`ey	manicennui: yeah I dont use an IDE for rust either
2021-05-13 18:32:20	davros	there's no way i could use rust without an IDE
2021-05-13 18:32:42	davros	i just can't memorise so much stuff
2021-05-13 18:32:47	manicennui	I don't think move by default is weird necessarily. It is having to know whether it is going to be move or copy.
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2021-05-13 18:33:03	dalcde	It makes a lot of sense for things like u32
2021-05-13 18:33:06	manicennui	And the two look exactly the same.
2021-05-13 18:33:17	j`ey	manicennui: if its move, and you try to use it again.. the compiler will complain
2021-05-13 18:33:18	dalcde	Copying, that is
2021-05-13 18:33:24	manicennui	j`ey: Sure.
2021-05-13 18:33:28	davros	manicennui, you have the same problem in C++, like... "is this a deep copy or trivial copy"
2021-05-13 18:33:30	j`ey	if its copy, but you dont need to use it again, no worries!
2021-05-13 18:33:31	davros	and they look the same
2021-05-13 18:33:33	manicennui	dalcde: Definitely.
2021-05-13 18:34:09	davros	classic bug of forgetting an & causes a deep copy on passing parameters :)
2021-05-13 18:34:14	manicennui	Again, much of this is probably my inexperience with Rust.
2021-05-13 18:34:29	manicennui	Now that my diversion into C++ for a bit is over, I'll try to spend more time with it.
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2021-05-13 18:37:00	dalcde	I suppose this kind of behaviour is implicit in a lot of languages, e.g. python
2021-05-13 18:37:15	dalcde	"small" arguments are passed by value but objects are passed by reference
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2021-05-13 18:38:02	dalcde	Most of the time it is "obvious" to me what happens but every now and then I get deeply confused.
2021-05-13 18:38:27	manicennui	That or basically everything is a reference.
2021-05-13 18:38:35	manicennui	But you don't need to think about it.
2021-05-13 18:38:40	manicennui	And mutation is a way of life.
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2021-05-13 18:57:30	erikh	rust-analyzer does wonders
2021-05-13 18:57:35	erikh	I use it with coc and vim
2021-05-13 18:57:52	erikh	I am much more productive because of it, I think.
2021-05-13 18:58:35	erikh	my favorite thing is the end-of-line type overlay, which shows you the type at the end of the line that the expression the line resolves to
2021-05-13 18:59:40	erikh	it does this even for method chains and other sub-expressions so it's really damn nice for figuring out why your giant method chain isn't working right, or `if let` isn't resulting in the type you expect
2021-05-13 19:00:49	dalcde	Oh I hate that
2021-05-13 19:00:57	dalcde	It destroys copy and paste
2021-05-13 19:01:15	erikh	copy and paste is overrated
2021-05-13 19:01:33	erikh	use V and y
2021-05-13 19:01:53	erikh	D
2021-05-13 19:02:06	erikh	err, :D
2021-05-13 19:02:49	erikh	btw, git-delta is my new favorite rust tool
2021-05-13 19:02:57	erikh	for the 0 people who cared to know
2021-05-13 19:03:20	j`ey	what do
2021-05-13 19:03:53	erikh	it's a replacement for git diff; has some features from bat and takes a bunch of style parameters for side-by-side diffs, formatting colors etc
2021-05-13 19:03:58	erikh	pretty neat stuff
2021-05-13 19:04:12	j`ey	cool
2021-05-13 19:04:14	manicennui	https://github.com/dandavison/delta
2021-05-13 19:04:15	manicennui	That?
2021-05-13 19:04:15	erikh	cargo install git-delta; then just delta two things. wire it into git separately
2021-05-13 19:04:22	erikh	yeah probably, I couldn't remember the url
2021-05-13 19:04:33	erikh	yup
2021-05-13 19:04:45	erikh	it's ridiculously customizable
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2021-05-13 19:06:04	manicennui	I always like to hear about new cli tools.
2021-05-13 19:06:12	erikh	yeah they're really the best.
2021-05-13 19:06:46	CommunistWolf	ooh
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2021-05-13 19:10:11	erikh	https://imgur.com/a/WQdv9sV
2021-05-13 19:10:13	erikh	is mine
2021-05-13 19:10:54	erikh	also wanted to show this overlay thingy because it's honestly really damn cool
2021-05-13 19:12:01	erikh	https://imgur.com/a/flIIaa7
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2021-05-13 19:21:39	snake	it just seems odd having a bunch of String in my label can canvas class, they won't be changed most likely
2021-05-13 19:21:46	snake	and*
2021-05-13 19:22:05	snake	let me paste some code
2021-05-13 19:22:17	j`ey	String doesnt have to be mutable though, just means owned
2021-05-13 19:28:12	snake	ohh ok
2021-05-13 19:28:49	j`ey	if the text was created from some user input, String is fine
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2021-05-13 19:34:03	snake	its also used in some hashmaps
2021-05-13 19:44:15	snake	mutable means it can't be changed. but is it the struct's resources that can't change, or the variable?
2021-05-13 19:44:22	snake	i thought i understood this but i guess i forgot ;-;
2021-05-13 19:44:33	snake	still working on that paste
2021-05-13 19:45:45	snake	oh nvm
2021-05-13 19:56:14	snake	ok here is my code finally: https://gist.github.com/ericshawlinux/3589505df72a15c9eb55f7b2b2553980
2021-05-13 20:00:14	snake	i have two questions, but i guess if String is really fine then i just have one question: why does line 27 give an error when uncommented?
2021-05-13 20:00:23	snake	main.rs:27
2021-05-13 20:00:39	snake	it says cannot borrow immutable reference
2021-05-13 20:03:14	Arnavion	http://sscce.org/
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2021-05-13 20:06:04	snake	Arnavion, is it too big?
2021-05-13 20:06:14	snake	this is just scratching the surface of my tetris clone
2021-05-13 20:06:21	snake	(and other games)
2021-05-13 20:06:53	snake	this is the function https://gist.github.com/ericshawlinux/3589505df72a15c9eb55f7b2b2553980#file-canvas-rs-L50
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2021-05-13 20:11:07	snake	you get the label, so you can change it
2021-05-13 20:12:19	snake	(for example, to update the score)
2021-05-13 20:16:29	snake	i got it to work by getting the label again
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2021-05-13 20:17:18	snake	i guess if you send it as a reference into another function immutably (like with println!) then you just have to get the mutable reference again
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2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Topic for ##rust is "Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language |  Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Topic set by Manishearth (~Manishear@wikipedia/Manishearth) on Sun, 12 May 2019 23:47:40
2021-05-15 11:03:48	--	Channel ##rust: 699 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 698 normals)
2021-05-15 11:03:51	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-05-15 11:10:37	seds	hey all, is there anyway I can convert a *mut usize to a struct type? tried x as *mut Table but I get expected `&mut isa::page::Table`, found *-ptr
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2021-05-15 11:11:43	j`ey	seds: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/primitive.pointer.html#method.as_mut
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2021-05-15 11:13:01	seds	j`ey: let me try that..
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2021-05-15 11:23:29	seds	j`ey: shouldn't x.as_mut() as Table work?
2021-05-15 11:23:46	j`ey	no
2021-05-15 11:23:55	j`ey	(x as *mut Table).as_mut()
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2021-05-15 11:26:02	yuri6037	Are they people here who knows procedural macros?
2021-05-15 11:27:15	seds	j`ey: ah, right, then I unwrap() the option. nice
2021-05-15 11:29:05	yuri6037	I made a procedural macro and it worked. I just have a slight issue where I don't what I had to do. In syn::Ident doc supposedly I should be able to make Ident::new from a Span::call_site but it turns out I have to use a special type that has no relation to syn: quote::__private::Span::call_site()
2021-05-15 11:29:51	yuri6037	the __private thing is nowhere referenced in syn's doc
2021-05-15 11:30:13	wizzwizz4	yuri6037: That
2021-05-15 11:30:14	yuri6037	it's rustc that told me it wanted that type
2021-05-15 11:30:37	yuri6037	so I gave it that weird __private thing and it stopped complaining and built the code
2021-05-15 11:30:52	wizzwizz4	That code will break at some point.
2021-05-15 11:31:19	yuri6037	Yeah I would have guessed that from the "__private"
2021-05-15 11:31:35	j`ey	what was the actual error?
2021-05-15 11:31:48	yuri6037	the error was Span does not exist
2021-05-15 11:32:06	j`ey	then you probably need to import it
2021-05-15 11:32:12	yuri6037	and rustc told me Span does not exist but __private::Span exists
2021-05-15 11:32:27	j`ey	ry proc_macro2::Span
2021-05-15 11:32:29	j`ey	*try
2021-05-15 11:33:06	yuri6037	it worked thanks
2021-05-15 11:33:22	yuri6037	how was I supposed to know that a different crate provided the type?
2021-05-15 11:33:56	j`ey	well, the example on the docs said use proc_macro2::Span, thats how I knew :P
2021-05-15 11:34:24	j`ey	and if you go here and click Span, https://docs.rs/syn/1.0.72/syn/struct.Ident.html#method.new
2021-05-15 11:34:59	yuri6037	I see did not see this example before
2021-05-15 11:35:18	yuri6037	it's relly kind of hidden the docs for proc macros
2021-05-15 11:35:27	j`ey	https://docs.rs/syn/1.0.72/syn/struct.Ident.html#examples has it
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2021-05-15 11:38:31	yuri6037	So I've done a super messy complex code for this proc macro but it ended up working. Now I can just do #[derive(ComponentManager)] instead of impl each component pool manually
2021-05-15 11:38:54	yuri6037	and the new function is automatically generated
2021-05-15 11:39:20	yuri6037	only catch is I managed to crash Vs Code Rust extension internals
2021-05-15 11:39:48	yuri6037	Line 4: use test_ecs_rust::ComponentManager; unresolved import test_ecs_r
2021-05-15 11:40:16	yuri6037	and right before a nice "Loading..." which appears to be loading forever
2021-05-15 11:44:08	Polochon_street	what's the difference between `cargo publish (--dry-run)` and `cargo build`? I have some `patches.crates.io` in my Cargo.toml, and they seem to be applied in the case of cargo build, but not in cargo publish's build :/
2021-05-15 11:56:03	wizzwizz4	Polochon_street: One difference is that crates on crates.io only pay attention to dependencies to current available versions on crates.io, ignoring (iirc) others.
2021-05-15 11:56:21	wizzwizz4	So I would expect patches not to be applied.
2021-05-15 11:56:31	Polochon_street	arg, that's annoying
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2021-05-15 12:07:25	englosh	I did exactly as it says on https://gtk-rs.org/gtk4-rs/git/book/prerequisites.html#cargo but if I do `cargo run` I get `error: failed to select a version for the requirement `gtk4 = "^0.1"``
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2021-05-15 12:08:21	jbg	there does not appear to be any actual released crate called gtk4 on crates.io
2021-05-15 12:08:30	jbg	just a "reserved for future use" with a version of 0.0.0
2021-05-15 12:09:02	jbg	that book might not be intended to actually be used yet?
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2021-05-15 12:10:44	englosh	that could be
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2021-05-15 12:51:24	kpcyrd	is there a good way to compare two &[u8] and get the offset of the first difference, if any?
2021-05-15 12:51:57	j`ey	iter().zip(a.iter()).position(|(a,b)|a != b)
2021-05-15 12:51:59	j`ey	something like that
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2021-05-15 12:55:36	kpcyrd	that would compare every byte, right? can I reasonable run this on files that are somtimes 100MB-1GB?
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2021-05-15 12:55:49	kpcyrd	can I optimize this if I expect most inputs to be equal?
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2021-05-15 12:56:12	danieldg	kpcyrd: it would compare every byte up to the first delta
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2021-05-15 12:56:22	danieldg	you can't tell something is equal without seeing every byte
2021-05-15 12:56:56	danieldg	are you comparing more than two?  Then preprocessing might make sense
2021-05-15 12:57:04	j`ey	preprocessing how?
2021-05-15 12:57:18	j`ey	(and you could always do some weird stuff by trying to compare u128 at a time :P)
2021-05-15 12:57:19	danieldg	hashes
2021-05-15 12:57:55	danieldg	you could hash chunks of the inputs and compare those as proxies for the actual input
2021-05-15 12:58:14	j`ey	similar idea to my u128 idea then
2021-05-15 12:58:46	danieldg	that would let you skip the first 100MB of an equal file to find the one byte difference at byte 102001003
2021-05-15 13:01:56	kpcyrd	my current approach compares two files in 4096 byte chunks, then reports if there's a difference somewhere at position 2048000 - 2052096
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2021-05-15 13:04:16	kpcyrd	I don't want to load the whole files into memory and I want to compare the bytes directly (since this is security sensitive I'd prefer to avoid hash functions, even if the function is currently considered secure)
2021-05-15 13:05:13	danieldg	sounds like you have a working system already
2021-05-15 13:06:06	kpcyrd	yeah, I was just wondering if there's a fancy solution to get an exact position
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2021-05-15 13:06:31	danieldg	you mean like the zip/position loop?
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2021-05-15 13:06:55	danieldg	you can do that on just the chunk you have loaded, obviously
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2021-05-15 13:16:55	kpcyrd	are 4k single-byte compares reasonably fast?
2021-05-15 13:17:16	kpcyrd	(as-in sub second)
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2021-05-15 13:18:13	danieldg	try sub-microsecond
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2021-05-15 13:20:43	kpcyrd	got it. thanks for you help danieldg and j`ey!
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2021-05-15 13:49:46	la_mettrie	using rust compilation for exploitation  https://twitter.com/pati_gallardo/status/1393557681743486980
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2021-05-15 13:59:46	j`ey	 not really a surprise, proc_macros and build.rs run arbitrary rust code
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2021-05-15 14:01:06	trevarj	computers are scary
2021-05-15 14:05:16	kline	j`ey, might not be surprising but its still not good
2021-05-15 14:05:44	j`ey	sandbox your build env, disable internet access etc
2021-05-15 14:06:05	kline	but then cargo cant fetch my packages
2021-05-15 14:06:17	j`ey	you can fetch before hand, without running the build
2021-05-15 14:07:02	kline	this is a functioning workaround but not a reasonable expectation for as a day to day rust best practice in the long term, surely?
2021-05-15 14:08:12	j`ey	depends how much you trust people etc
2021-05-15 14:08:35	j`ey	but having proc macros not have internet access by default, might be a good start
2021-05-15 14:08:50	j`ey	I dont think the rustc binary needs internet access, so that might not be too hard to do
2021-05-15 14:10:42	trevarj	if you pulled any source code and build and run it you will be able to easily do the same thing...
2021-05-15 14:11:22	j`ey	yeah
2021-05-15 14:11:45	trevarj	i guess the only thing different is that if you are planning on opening VScode to vet the source, it executes the "exploit" immediately
2021-05-15 14:12:43	j`ey	vscode bad
2021-05-15 14:12:53	kline	j`ey, i guess something like the macros not being able to have side effects might be useful
2021-05-15 14:13:00	trevarj	i guess it's a rust-analyzer thing, actually. right?
2021-05-15 14:13:07	kline	so no IO of any kind, be it disk, network, etc
2021-05-15 14:13:20	j`ey	kline: some of them probably have use cases that utilise that
2021-05-15 14:13:30	j`ey	like some do sql accesses and stuff
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2021-05-15 14:14:18	kline	then this sounds like a surprising deviation from most peoples understanding of how the rust toolchain works
2021-05-15 14:14:21	SpaceManiac	tons of build.rs invoke pkg-config or gcc or make or w/e
2021-05-15 14:14:36	kline	you might say they are wrong to have this understanding, but in that case rust needs to better educate
2021-05-15 14:14:37	j`ey	kline: really?
2021-05-15 14:14:45	j`ey	maybe
2021-05-15 14:15:05	kline	yeah, i dont think that building a package should allow arbitrary code to be run from outside the build tools
2021-05-15 14:15:20	j`ey	what about when you run make?
2021-05-15 14:15:26	j`ey	on some random project
2021-05-15 14:16:26	kline	all the executable stuff can be derived directly from the makefile - i dont have to worry that $(CC) myfile will run anything other than whatever the compiler is defined as
2021-05-15 14:16:37	kline	whereas it sounds like in rust i now also need to check myfile
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2021-05-15 14:17:40	j`ey	well a proc macro is kinda an extension of the build, so is build.rs
2021-05-15 14:17:49	j`ey	so I see it more of a makefile, than a source file
2021-05-15 14:18:29	kline	that might be true, but makefiles cant source code from arbitrary other files in the project, can they?
2021-05-15 14:18:45	j`ey	sure, they can run a shell script
2021-05-15 14:18:47	trevarj	wouldn't you not even be able to avoid it if rust-analyzer indexes (and evaluates macros?) each dependency crate, some of which that could also be malicious?
2021-05-15 14:19:24	kline	j`ey, right, but then i can draw a direct line from the makefile to the shell script
2021-05-15 14:19:41	kline	im not saying its not a useful feature
2021-05-15 14:20:06	kline	im just saying that its a surprise, and the expected mitigation is unwieldy and unpracticed
2021-05-15 14:20:34	j`ey	for a build.rs, there is a direct line (even if it's implicit by being a file called build.rs)
2021-05-15 14:20:51	j`ey	proc macros are a little bit more 'surprising', since they depend on something in the source, i agree to that
2021-05-15 14:21:52	Shell	I would be unsurprised to find it trivial to cause arbitrary code execution in gcc, fwiw.
2021-05-15 14:22:30	Shell	compilers are not generally designed to handle entirely untrusted input.
2021-05-15 14:22:53	danieldg	true, but it would be a bug as opposed to an intentional feature
2021-05-15 14:23:21	SpaceManiac	doesn't C#'s analyzer/code generator architecture have the same "code execution when opened in IDE" issue?
2021-05-15 14:24:03	Shell	I know F# can run arbitrary code at build time based on the source code alone.
2021-05-15 14:26:38	j`ey	i wonder what zig's comptime stuff can do
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2021-05-15 14:41:22	kpcyrd	I'm using tokio and if I want to read into `let mut buf = [0u8; 4096];` I need to write `f.read_buf(&mut &mut buf[..]).await?;`, why do I need to write &mut twice?
2021-05-15 14:42:22	danieldg	because only &mut [u8] implements Write
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2021-05-15 14:42:30	danieldg	(it's due to the need for a cursor)
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2021-05-15 14:59:17	Polochon_street	hi! Let's say I have a lib crate with some examples in crates.io, is there a way to download directly the crates from crates.io and build only the example? Other than cloning the repo and cargo build my example?
2021-05-15 15:00:48	danieldg	cargo install --examples
2021-05-15 15:01:38	Polochon_street	damn, thanks
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2021-05-15 15:08:17	wizzwizz4	Is there a way to get cargo to put /target somewhere else? I'm currently using symbolic links but it's annoying.
2021-05-15 15:08:27	j`ey	CARGO_TARGET_DIR
2021-05-15 15:08:54	j`ey	--target-dir
2021-05-15 15:09:19	wizzwizz4	Oh, neat, thought CARGO_TARGET_DIR was just for build scripts.
2021-05-15 15:09:51	wizzwizz4	The flag means I can put it in .cargo/config.toml, right?
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2021-05-15 15:11:12	wizzwizz4	Yeah, it goes in [build].
2021-05-15 15:11:34	neachdainn	Is there a way to disable lints for a `[patch]`? It's breaking my build
2021-05-15 15:12:26	neachdainn	I was hoping I could do it by passing `--cap-lints allow` but I can't see how to do that without it impacting my entire build (not just the patched crate)
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2021-05-15 15:29:17	yuri6037	Hi, I have a question: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=7668649100da12222a0159276e4ade71 Line 63 why is dyn required?
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2021-05-15 15:31:06	j`ey	warning: trait objects without an explicit `dyn` are deprecated
2021-05-15 15:31:22	yuri6037	why is it considered a trait object?
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2021-05-15 15:31:51	j`ey	are you trying to impl GameObject for anything that impls Object?
2021-05-15 15:31:59	yuri6037	For me it's only an implementation to allow anyone to spawn an Object in a Scene instead of a direct GameObject
2021-05-15 15:32:30	yuri6037	Object is higher level (simpler to use) than GameObject which works with raw Any
2021-05-15 15:32:55	j`ey	https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=d37524ae46cac6e1a544b333ef602867
2021-05-15 15:34:01	yuri6037	I see so the compiler was initially wrong about dyn
2021-05-15 15:34:16	j`ey	no
2021-05-15 15:34:48	yuri6037	Would it have worked if I used dyn?
2021-05-15 15:35:02	wizzwizz4	`impl<T: GameObject> Object for T` is different to `impl Object for GameObject`.
2021-05-15 15:35:05	j`ey	well I dont know exactly what youre trying to do
2021-05-15 15:35:18	wizzwizz4	The latter means `impl Object for dyn GameObject` using legacy syntax.
2021-05-15 15:35:45	wizzwizz4	This confusion is part of the reason the syntax was changed, and why I'm very glad for the warning.
2021-05-15 15:35:45	j`ey	im assuming you want what I wrote instead
2021-05-15 15:36:14	Polochon_street	hm, if I publish a crate to crates.io and then use `crate install --examples` to install the corresponding examples, does it respect the default features while building? It seems that it doesn't build the static libs as it does when I `cargo build`
2021-05-15 15:36:39	wizzwizz4	yuri6037: If you'd used `dyn`, then you would've had to convert your object references to generic "fat" references before you could use them. It would've worked, but it wouldn't've been what you wanted.
2021-05-15 15:37:15	wizzwizz4	Polochon_street: Does it build the static libs when you `cargo build --examples`?
2021-05-15 15:38:08	yuri6037	let me explain better I have a scene struct with a function like spawn_object<TObject: GameObject<TContext, TComponentManager>>(&mut self, obj: TObject). The idea is to call it with either a raw low level GameObject trait or the higher level Object trait
2021-05-15 15:38:58	yuri6037	the function automatically builds a Box<dyn GameObject> out of it and stores it inside some container
2021-05-15 15:39:33	j`ey	it sounds like you dont want the dyn version then
2021-05-15 15:40:04	wizzwizz4	Both would probably work in this specific scenario, though.
2021-05-15 15:40:11	yuri6037	ok I see, btw what is a fat reference?
2021-05-15 15:40:33	wizzwizz4	I'm mixing up the terminology. It's a dynamic trait reference, implemented with a fat pointer.
2021-05-15 15:40:45	wizzwizz4	Instead of just pointing to the data, it points to the data and the vtable.
2021-05-15 15:40:58	wizzwizz4	In C++, objects point to their vtables. In Rust, the pointers do.
2021-05-15 15:41:39	yuri6037	oh ok so that would be an undesirable side effect, workable but if avoidable I would. this adds more indirection on top of what the scene is already doing
2021-05-15 15:42:03	yuri6037	so j`ey way is better in this case
2021-05-15 15:42:36	wizzwizz4	That's a good rule of thumb.
2021-05-15 15:42:39	yuri6037	Anyway thanks to both for the explanation and the better solution
2021-05-15 15:44:18	yuri6037	wizzwizz4: Well it's preferable to properly think abstraction layers with DX as this API uses a lot of C++ interfaces which is very good for bad branch predicted CPUs...
2021-05-15 15:44:21	Polochon_street	wizzwizz4: just tried, it's building the static libs when I cargo build --examples --release
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2021-05-15 15:45:24	Polochon_street	this is my Cargo.toml https://github.com/Polochon-street/bliss-rs/blob/master/Cargo.toml; basically I should build aubio-rs and ffmpeg-next, and it doesn't appear on the compilation steps when I cargo install
2021-05-15 15:45:33	Polochon_street	but it does appear when I just cargo build --exampels
2021-05-15 15:45:35	Polochon_street	--examples*
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2021-05-15 15:48:49	yuri6037	I'm gonna call this design the Rust Extended Generic ECS
2021-05-15 15:51:14	j`ey	regecs
2021-05-15 15:51:51	erikh	I spend too much time with cloud tech and almost ran screaming from this channel
2021-05-15 15:52:13	Polochon_street	erm, does `cargo install` ignores vendored paths?
2021-05-15 15:52:41	Polochon_street	I have `aubio-rs = {version = "0.2.0", path = "./aubio-rs/aubio-rs"}`, where aubio-rs is a git submodule, but it seems it's just pulling it from crates.io instead of taking the path
2021-05-15 15:52:52	Polochon_street	ignore*
2021-05-15 15:52:59	yuri6037	crate name will be bp3d-ecs and bp3d-ecs-codegen and be part of https:://gitlab.com/bp3d
2021-05-15 15:53:52	j`ey	 Polochon_street: i believe so.. you might need to drop the version
2021-05-15 15:54:12	yuri6037	well actually no I'll just use your proposed shortcut name thanks j`ey I like it actually and it's shorter
2021-05-15 15:54:38	erikh	I tried to publish a crate for the first time with two path subcrates and it forced me to publish them
2021-05-15 15:54:42	yuri6037	that's gonna be faster to type
2021-05-15 15:54:45	erikh	just fwiw
2021-05-15 15:55:29	yuri6037	Nice it's not taken I'll try to claim it as soon as possible
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2021-05-15 15:57:09	Polochon_street	j`ey: thanks, I'll try that :)
2021-05-15 15:57:10	yuri6037	I might also claim rgmath by the way. I will need to port my template math lib from C++ to rust.
2021-05-15 15:58:19	yuri6037	brb gotta switch computers to the crappy laptop
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2021-05-15 16:17:03	Polochon_street	j`ey: tried to remove the version requirements, but then cargo publish tells me that I need to specify a versin when publishing
2021-05-15 16:17:08	Polochon_street	+o
2021-05-15 16:17:19	Polochon_street	I wonder how I could vendor that crate
2021-05-15 16:17:25	j`ey	then what erikh says must be true
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2021-05-15 16:24:38	Polochon_street	don't really want to publish
2021-05-15 16:26:19	Polochon_street	and `cargo vendor` seems to apply to all the deps ?
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2021-05-15 16:28:42	erikh	my experience is that you're publishing them
2021-05-15 16:28:54	erikh	I think crates.io could do this better
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2021-05-15 16:29:29	Polochon_street	I'm basically vendoring an already existing crate that doesn't belong to me, with some tweaks I made, so not sure I can publish it?
2021-05-15 16:29:29	erikh	namespace is already pretty polluted, but such is the nature of package repositories
2021-05-15 16:29:45	erikh	change the name, depend on it, publish it... that's why licenses matter
2021-05-15 16:30:05	Polochon_street	erff, that seems like a lot of pollution
2021-05-15 16:30:10	erikh	or submit patches back
2021-05-15 16:30:36	erikh	I'm not an expert on this, there could be some other way
2021-05-15 16:30:43	erikh	(but I doubt it at this point)
2021-05-15 16:30:45	Polochon_street	it's somehow a complicated case, it's a rust crate that depends on a C-lib, where the maintainer has gone AWOL
2021-05-15 16:31:39	Polochon_street	so, yeah, not sure how to do that
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2021-05-15 16:41:20	la_croix	I'm new to rust, and trying to learn how to structure things idiomatically. Would a struct with a 'states' enum, setter methods to change states, and a thread owned by the struct testing some external condition and updating the state be idiomatic, or the wrong approach?
2021-05-15 16:43:06	GreenJello	la_mettrie, maybe explain the problem you're trying to solve?
2021-05-15 16:43:10	GreenJello	la_croix*
2021-05-15 16:43:37	danieldg	la_croix: a thread per struct is not exactly normal, and you need to share data anyway so define where the Arc is located
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2021-05-15 16:44:42	la_croix	Sorry - So, an 'Alarm' struct that can exist in the states [Disarmed, Armed, Triggered]. You instantiate it as Disarmed, call .arm(), which mutates its state to 'Armed', and creates a thread to poll a GPIO input. GPIO input goes high -> mutate state to 'Triggered'
2021-05-15 16:45:34	la_croix	I have tried it, and it complains about giving a mutable ref to 'self' to the thread. I understand the issue, and I could look into fixing it with Rc, but I'm starting to wonder if this is just not a rust-y approach (I'm a python dev)
2021-05-15 16:46:00	danieldg	well, you need an Arc for threads
2021-05-15 16:46:38	danieldg	you could use an Arc<YourStruct> and put the enum inside a Mutex inside your struct
2021-05-15 16:47:07	danieldg	but, will you want trigger events when something changes?  Then you might want some notification mechanism instead
2021-05-15 16:47:14	danieldg	channels, some kind of actor model
2021-05-15 16:47:50	danieldg	or just plain callbacks
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2021-05-15 16:48:36	la_croix	danieldg: The struct has two associated GPIO pins which are passed in on instantiation. When it moves to 'armed', it sets up an interrupt on the input GPIO, and when it is triggered, it should updated it's state to 'triggered' and change the state of its output GPIO
2021-05-15 16:48:58	danieldg	but nothing else?
2021-05-15 16:49:21	danieldg	no playing a sound, sending an email, etc etc
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2021-05-15 16:49:57	la_croix	No, nothing else. The issue is that the closure I have to pass to the interrupt needs a mutable reference to the Alarm struct, so that it can update the state to 'Triggered' if necessary
2021-05-15 16:50:02	la_croix	I have a code snippet if that helps
2021-05-15 16:50:07	wizzwizz4	la_croix: How are you planning to detect whether the state gets changed to Triggered? Repeated polling?
2021-05-15 16:50:31	danieldg	la_croix: yinstead of taking a mutable self, take Arc<Self>
2021-05-15 16:50:44	danieldg	la_croix: then mutate via a Mutex that only needs shared refs to self
2021-05-15 16:51:19	la_croix	wizzwizz4: Yes, it will loop over a PinPoller from the sysfs_gpio library (epoll under the covers)
2021-05-15 16:51:48	la_croix	danieldg: That makes sense, thank you, but in your view, is that a fix for a bad approach, or is it a reasonable approach? I'm brand new to rust, so keen to do things idiomatically
2021-05-15 16:52:14	danieldg	this shouldn't need a thread then
2021-05-15 16:52:14	danieldg	the gpio polling should be triggering your code when a pin changes
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2021-05-15 16:53:00	danieldg	if you already have a source of events for something, use it
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2021-05-15 16:54:33	la_croix	According to the docs for sysfs_gpio (unless I've misunderstood), I do need to loop over the PinPoller. This can't be done in the main thread as the main thread needs to listen to other things (such as a button press to update the alarm state to 'Disarmed') https://github.com/rust-embedded/rust-sysfs-gpio/blob/master/examples/interrupt.rs
2021-05-15 16:55:48	la_croix	And I thought it would make sense for the alarm to own that thread, and as part of the .disarm() method, stop the polling
2021-05-15 16:56:29	danieldg	if you are going to busy-poll then that is true
2021-05-15 16:56:50	danieldg	you might want to use asynchronous polling as it's better for power use
2021-05-15 16:57:44	danieldg	plus you get faster responses with async poll than with busy poll
2021-05-15 16:58:53	la_croix	I guess that would make sense, yes
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2021-05-15 17:00:21	danieldg	basically any time you use sleep where you aren't actually implementing a timer is often a sign you're doing it wrong
2021-05-15 17:00:44	la_croix	Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
2021-05-15 17:00:50	georgemp	in the destructor example here https://michael-f-bryan.github.io/rust-ffi-guide/send_basic.html#rust-ffi-bindings , wouldn't Box::from_raw() take ownership of the Response pointer? Wouldn't that release the memory occupied by Response? wondering why we need the `drop` around it..
2021-05-15 17:01:26	GreenJello	georgemp, it's just being explicit about the intent
2021-05-15 17:01:26	danieldg	georgemp: it's just to make it clear that the box is freed *now*
2021-05-15 17:01:40	danieldg	plus it slicences unused warnings
2021-05-15 17:02:57	georgemp	thanks
2021-05-15 17:03:23	georgemp	but i'd be fine with just a let _ = Box::from_raw()?
2021-05-15 17:04:14	danieldg	that's the same thing, yes
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2021-05-15 17:09:38	la_croix	danieldg: I'll give this a go. Thank you for your help!
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2021-05-15 17:27:32	Yuri6037	Hi I'm back. I've just claimed regecs and regecs-codegen
2021-05-15 17:27:33	Yuri6037	https://crates.io/crates/regecs
2021-05-15 17:28:33	Yuri6037	j`ey thanks again for the short name
2021-05-15 17:29:12	Yuri6037	Now it's repo lock time so that I don't publish on master anymore
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2021-05-15 17:29:56	davros	do the short names need to be approved?
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2021-05-15 17:31:03	Yuri6037	No you can claim anything you want as long as nobody else did
2021-05-15 17:31:46	Yuri6037	I've claimed that one to host the Rust Extended Generic ECS which is gonna be my building base for any game engine
2021-05-15 17:31:47	davros	heh ok . I always thought crates should have a long name (eg min 16chars), then only when they get traction and a community vote can short names be allocated
2021-05-15 17:32:14	Yuri6037	I also claimed bpx
2021-05-15 17:32:22	davros	then the really obvious names can end up being the most useful crates
2021-05-15 17:32:35	davros	wheras at the minute its a free for all :/
2021-05-15 17:32:39	Yuri6037	super small and means BlockProject Extended
2021-05-15 17:33:26	Yuri6037	BlockProject Extended is my open format intended to fix all legal problems when modding games with proprietary formats
2021-05-15 17:33:42	danieldg	'all legal problems' hahaha
2021-05-15 17:33:50	Yuri6037	example .uasset
2021-05-15 17:35:05	Yuri6037	.uasset is not allowed to be injected lonely. And forcing this behavior will need importing code from UE sdk which is legally not allowed
2021-05-15 17:35:21	davros	rayon, very nice indeed.  wont let me work on items in parallel when they've got Rc<T> .  but willl if i swap to arc<T>.  the kind of detail that would get lost in c++
2021-05-15 17:35:54	davros	i dont know how anyone sane can want to do threaded programming in a team environment in c++, when rust exists
2021-05-15 17:36:08	davros	1 programmer or 1 thread, c++ is great
2021-05-15 17:36:50	Yuri6037	parallelization is a pain in C and C++. The only reason I use C/C++ for threading would be if I have no choice or OpenMP
2021-05-15 17:37:21	Yuri6037	for low level big data apps it might be good
2021-05-15 17:37:32	_habnabit	davros, mutable aliasing can still steal your lunch even with one thread
2021-05-15 17:37:54	davros	yeah even there, i do like how rust forces you to rethink
2021-05-15 17:38:31	_habnabit	a good article about that: https://manishearth.github.io/blog/2015/05/17/the-problem-with-shared-mutability/
2021-05-15 17:39:36	davros	i'm doing a little engine thing at the moment and i do have asynchronous loading , rust defintiely puts your mind at ease
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2021-05-15 17:40:41	davros	i had just been bouncing between 2 designs..  'actors hold resource Ids , the renderer must be passed the actor & resource sys to grab the reosurces" vs  "actors hold refcounted pointers to resources" << with async loading, and parallel updates .. danger..
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2021-05-15 17:41:26	davros	in c++ i may not have thought enough about it and just had it working with assumptions that would be easily broken if i came back to it or handed it to someone else
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2021-05-15 17:43:05	_habnabit	it's very easy for your past self to be 'another programmer' yes
2021-05-15 17:43:17	_habnabit	so i don't think 'one programmer' holds much weight
2021-05-15 17:43:39	davros	one programmer, i can see why people resist rust.
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2021-05-15 17:44:01	Yuri6037	my asset system is AssetProvider in plugin allocates a Send AssetLoader which is called load method in a thread pool then AssetLoader returns to main thread and consumes itself into a Rc<Asset>. The components stores Weak<Asset>
2021-05-15 17:45:13	Yuri6037	and when you want the asset it gets promoted temporarly to a Rc. When the asset is destroyed then panic is raised if there's still more than 1 hard ref
2021-05-15 17:46:33	Yuri6037	oh and by the way in my design assets are loadable/unloadable at any time but are not supposed to be modified as they are global to the game app
2021-05-15 17:47:22	Yuri6037	modifying global assets is basically unsafe as hell (welcome DX11 attempt to modify static resources)
2021-05-15 17:47:41	Yuri6037	DX12 or VK is not better at all
2021-05-15 17:48:02	Yuri6037	actally VK is not forgiving with memory management
2021-05-15 17:48:21	Yuri6037	in GL it's a bit yolo
2021-05-15 17:50:20	davros	i have a resource loader thread and a message queue, and a polling function called to update the "render threads" safe asset list with updates from the render thread
2021-05-15 17:50:51	davros	i just need to amend it with dynamic priorities
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2021-05-15 17:51:44	erikh	is there an easy package for reading bytes into integers? I can roll this myself but it seems like I shouldn't need to
2021-05-15 17:52:00	danieldg	iirc bytes
2021-05-15 17:52:12	erikh	a crate? or std?
2021-05-15 17:52:18	danieldg	crate
2021-05-15 17:52:20	erikh	thanks!
2021-05-15 17:52:44	danieldg	you can do it with std too, just look at from_le_bytes and such
2021-05-15 17:52:50	danieldg	but it's not as nice an api
2021-05-15 17:53:01	erikh	yeah it's just a 3 lines of bit shifting really
2021-05-15 17:53:05	erikh	if that
2021-05-15 17:53:22	erikh	just wanted to see what was available.. thank you very much
2021-05-15 17:54:31	Yuri6037	I use byteorder
2021-05-15 17:54:37	Yuri6037	in BPX
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2021-05-15 18:34:28	erikh	thread 'main' panicked at 'attempt to shift left with overflow', src/lib.rs:130:35
2021-05-15 18:34:32	erikh	I'm off to a great start
2021-05-15 18:34:59	erikh	there we go
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2021-05-15 18:38:02	erikh	working on a steam .vdf dumper
2021-05-15 18:39:55	Yuri6037	You might need Wrapping if you need to creat hash functions or checksum functions
2021-05-15 18:40:21	erikh	I've got a working product already.. I'm porting from an old go lib I wote
2021-05-15 18:40:28	Yuri6037	oh ok
2021-05-15 18:40:29	erikh	I'll share in a bit
2021-05-15 18:42:04	erikh	valve has its own protobuf-like format for handling marshaled data
2021-05-15 18:42:09	Yuri6037	gtg now bye
2021-05-15 18:42:15	erikh	later!
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2021-05-15 18:42:25	erikh	https://code.hollensbe.org/erikh-archive/go-steam-shortcut is a parser I wrote for it a while back
2021-05-15 18:42:42	erikh	which isn't very good and you shouldn't use
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2021-05-15 18:46:06	Bish	if i have to implement a trait, and i know that trait is built for another type
2021-05-15 18:46:16	Bish	can i "convert" to that type and then call this insted?
2021-05-15 18:47:36	j`ey	if your type implements Into
2021-05-15 18:47:43	j`ey	or that type implements From, maybe
2021-05-15 18:48:46	AstrallyForged	.hg Bish: You have a type `Bar`, and you want to `impl Trait for Bar`. There's an existing type `Foo` that already implements `Trait`. You want to reuse that impl. Did I understand that right?
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2021-05-15 18:49:05	Bish	in my case i want to save a custom struct to redis, and i am trying this right now
2021-05-15 18:49:39	Bish	and im wondering, if i could convert it to a  type that already has the trait
2021-05-15 18:49:51	j`ey	why?
2021-05-15 18:50:04	j`ey	to save impling a trait? is there another type.. that matches your struct?
2021-05-15 18:50:05	Bish	in this case it's stupid, because i just have to return a vec u8
2021-05-15 18:50:30	Bish	but imagine converting would be more complicated, but you knew already how to get to another type
2021-05-15 18:50:59	AstrallyForged	.hg …so you want to your type to serialize to redis in the same way that another type serializes?
2021-05-15 18:51:12	AstrallyForged	.hg s/want to your/want your/
2021-05-15 18:51:50	Bish	yeah, the real scenario doesn't exist yet, but imagine i have a tree structure and wrote a json serializer for that
2021-05-15 18:51:59	Bish	it could be easier for me togo json ⇒ redis
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2021-05-15 18:52:11	Bish	if that redis thing has already a trait for json
2021-05-15 18:52:18	Bish	(stupid example i just made up)
2021-05-15 18:52:32	j`ey	you would just .. write the code to convert it first
2021-05-15 18:52:43	j`ey	im not sure what kinda answer youre looking for
2021-05-15 18:52:54	j`ey	redis_fn(json_fn(tree))
2021-05-15 18:53:02	Bish	i am wondering if you can implictly call a function of a trait
2021-05-15 18:53:08	Bish	how a trait functions called?
2021-05-15 18:53:09	j`ey	no
2021-05-15 18:53:23	j`ey	theyre just like normal functions
2021-05-15 18:53:39	j`ey	you cant do: redis_fn(tree), if redis_fn only takes json
2021-05-15 18:54:03	j`ey	it could be: fn redis_fn<I: Into<JSON>>(i: I)..
2021-05-15 18:54:25	j`ey	and assuming the tree type impled From/Into, that would work
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2021-05-15 18:57:52	Bish	okay thnaks
2021-05-15 18:59:07	Bish	long shot question: why does the redis connection have to be mutable
2021-05-15 19:01:35	_habnabit	Bish, presumably it has to manage state
2021-05-15 19:01:42	_habnabit	Bish, buffers and whatnot
2021-05-15 19:02:28	GreenJello	redis connections tend to also want one command running at any time
2021-05-15 19:02:45	GreenJello	at most one*
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2021-05-15 19:04:43	GreenJello	hmm, not actually sure if that's true
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2021-05-15 19:20:45	Bish	isn't it weird, that a strict language like rust accepts me creating futures without awaiting them, so nothing happens?
2021-05-15 19:24:35	Alexendoo	You could #[must_use] them perhaps
2021-05-15 19:25:51	Alexendoo	Doesn't necessarily mean it has to be awaited but it would prevent the more obvious mistakes of immediately dropping them without any use
2021-05-15 19:26:59	Alexendoo	looks like async fns are implicitly must_use
2021-05-15 19:34:02	GreenJello	how do I make a syn::Lit::Str from an &str in my proc macro? I don't know what LitStr::new is expecting, but it seems to chop off the first character of the argument, so it wants the first char to be '"' or something?
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2021-05-15 19:34:41	GreenJello	my &str happens to also have a " in it, and everything I've tried to with escaping and raw strings is failing
2021-05-15 19:34:50	Bish	last question then im a happy rusty boi: there is no native way to create an enum frrom a number?
2021-05-15 19:35:01	Bish	it always is some sorrt of tryconvert or some crate?
2021-05-15 19:35:26	GreenJello	example: let code = format!(r#"let struct_name = "{}";"#, "Test"); let code_token = syn::Lit::Str(syn::LitStr::new(&code, Span::call_site()));
2021-05-15 19:39:01	_habnabit	Bish, how many variants are in your enum such that there's a bijection between enum values and integer values? ;)
2021-05-15 19:39:22	GreenJello	in case the way it's used is relevant: https://gist.github.com/brigand/fe470c13f124f392e82984ee13965cd9
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2021-05-15 19:46:21	GreenJello	Oh, hmm, this does seem to work when I simplify it to not recurse into another macro
2021-05-15 19:48:33	Bish	_habnabit: im talking about simple ones like struct smth { A = 1 }
2021-05-15 19:48:44	Bish	i can easily make them u8 with "as"
2021-05-15 19:48:49	Bish	but the other way around seems to be tricky
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2021-05-15 19:51:22	Bish	or trickier atleast
2021-05-15 19:51:54	GreenJello	okay, so the issue is that I was treating Literal's .to_string() naively
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2021-05-15 21:51:33	erikh	https://github.com/erikh/steam-shortcut-rs is what I made fwiw
2021-05-15 21:51:55	erikh	at a good stopping point now, ttfn
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2021-05-15 22:46:53	deltab	erikh: should the << offset grow up by 1 or 8?
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2021-05-15 22:54:24	erikh	oops heh
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2021-05-15 23:07:37	lovesegfault	when I do vec![1], what is the capacity of the vec created?
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2021-05-15 23:10:43	Mutabah	Probably 8? Check the source
2021-05-15 23:11:15	Mutabah	... actually, probably depends on the backend allocator
2021-05-15 23:11:40	Mutabah	since `vec![..]` is implemented via `Box::new([...])`
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2021-05-16 02:51:27	Feuermagier	&str.len() is the length of that slice, right?
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2021-05-16 03:05:03	jbg	you can just write str.len()
2021-05-16 03:05:19	jbg	. binds more loosely than & anyway, so all you are doing is calling str.len() and then taking a reference to the returned usize
2021-05-16 03:06:46	jbg	and yes, it's the length -- in bytes
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2021-05-16 03:10:09	Feuermagier	how do I access string characters with an index?
2021-05-16 03:10:55	jbg	s.chars().nth(n) for characters
2021-05-16 03:11:06	Feuermagier	ah, i need to change datatype. thx
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2021-05-16 03:11:37	jbg	you're not changing the data type; chars() just returns an iterator over the characters of s
2021-05-16 03:12:28	jbg	a "cursor" that knows how to interpret UTF-8 and moves ahead the right number of bytes for each character. the data stays where it is.
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2021-05-16 03:14:22	Feuermagier	interesting
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2021-05-16 03:15:01	w0x12ef	is generic boring ?
2021-05-16 03:15:05	jbg	you may find the section of the book on strings useful: https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/book/ch08-02-strings.html
2021-05-16 03:16:17	jbg	and for iterators in general, https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/book/ch13-02-iterators.html
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2021-05-16 03:52:40	kish`	is there a way to get cargo to give me the source instead of installing a package
2021-05-16 03:52:47	kish`	i want the complete source on disk
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2021-05-16 04:04:01	jbg	kish`: look in ~/.cargo/registry/src
2021-05-16 04:06:11	kish`	jbg, that works. thanks
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2021-05-16 05:05:29	Arnik	How to convert u16 to String or str?
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2021-05-16 05:06:27	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/string/struct.String.html#method.from_utf16
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2021-05-16 05:35:30	emerent	Arnik: you want a string of the number in decimal representation? your_num.to_string()
2021-05-16 05:35:55	j`ey	oh, that makes more sense
2021-05-16 05:36:19	Arnik	I have u16 ( a port number ) and I want concatenate it to String
2021-05-16 05:37:20	Arnik	I used from_utf16() and it gets me non sense characters instead of port
2021-05-16 05:37:20	j`ey	evalr: let a = 10u16; a.to_string()
2021-05-16 05:37:23	--	Notice(evalr): "10"
2021-05-16 05:37:41	j`ey	yeah sorryy, from_utf16 is something else, i misunderstood the question
2021-05-16 05:38:02	Arnik	Thats Okay, thanks
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2021-05-16 05:39:18	Arnik	I have another problem, why to_string() does not found in u16 documentation?
2021-05-16 05:39:29	emerent	Arnik: .to_string() would work then, but you could also use the format!() macro which works like print! but gives you a string
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2021-05-16 05:39:59	emerent	Arnik: to_string() is a method of the ToString trait which is implemented for all types that implement the Display trait
2021-05-16 05:40:18	emerent	There should be a Display impl in u16's docs
2021-05-16 05:41:07	emerent	if you can print!("{}", it), you can .to_string() it
2021-05-16 05:41:08	Arnik	Okay , I thought ToString did not implemented for u16 as I seen ToString in not implemented list
2021-05-16 05:41:33	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/string/trait.ToString.html#impl-ToString-4
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2021-05-16 05:59:35	Bish	http://dpaste.com/CZG3W4EP9 can somebody explain to be why this results in 2 bytes written to the redisdb? am i understand the function incorrectly?
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2021-05-16 06:03:09	Mutabah	Bish: Because there's two elements in the passed data?
2021-05-16 06:03:18	Mutabah	Maybe you wanted `; 1` instead of `, 1`
2021-05-16 06:03:26	Bish	ahhh fuck
2021-05-16 06:03:29	Bish	sorry
2021-05-16 06:03:50	Bish	that is prone to typing errors, i guess
2021-05-16 06:05:49	j`ey	since it sounds like it takes a slice, you dont need the ;1 anyway
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2021-05-16 06:31:23	davros	https://pastebin.com/SXSb8hZh  << can any rust iterator expert improve on the 2nd option?
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2021-05-16 06:36:10	j`ey	evalr: std::mem::size_of::<HashMap<u32, u32>>()
2021-05-16 06:36:15	--	Notice(evalr): error[E0412]: cannot find type `HashMap` in this scope
2021-05-16 06:36:16	--	Notice(evalr): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=fcee6cceaaa01277baf4489d129ae5e0&version=stable&mode=debug
2021-05-16 06:36:23	j`ey	evalr: std::mem::size_of::<std::collections::HashMap<u32, u32>>()
2021-05-16 06:36:29	--	Notice(evalr): 48
2021-05-16 06:36:42	Bish	.oO(odd that redis gives "false" if you get a bool value of a non existent element)
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2021-05-16 06:36:44	j`ey	are you worried that moving the hashmap is expensive?
2021-05-16 06:36:57	davros	i'm assuming moving the hashmap is free
2021-05-16 06:37:21	davros	as in the optimizer should figure out taking a value, doing something, returning it to the next iteration is just going to do it "inplace"
2021-05-16 06:37:36	davros	well i'm hoping
2021-05-16 06:38:54	j`ey	i dont see a better way of writing it
2021-05-16 06:39:34	davros	the fold should compile to something like this i guess..    {acc= initializer_expr;  for item in iterator{   acc = fold_fn(acc,item) } ; acc } // want the optimizer to figure out with 'fold_fn' inlined that acc can just stay inplace
2021-05-16 06:39:41	j`ey	or even a different way
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2021-05-16 06:40:15	davros	ok.   maybe there was an explicit  "fold_inplace( |&mut acc|" or something like that
2021-05-16 06:41:00	 *	Bish takes it back as usual
2021-05-16 06:41:06	j`ey	scan() gives you a multiple argument
2021-05-16 06:41:09	j`ey	*mutable
2021-05-16 06:41:28	j`ey	but I think it's safe to think this should be optimised, but it should be pretty easy to check!
2021-05-16 06:42:31	davros	( juggling in my heaed.. i like the fact the iterator approach produces the result in as value from an expression (no repetition of the variable name lets me give it a better name),   but maybe the plain loop is easier to read and write )
2021-05-16 06:43:12	j`ey	they both are readable for me
2021-05-16 06:43:30	j`ey	i would probably just gravitate towards fold()
2021-05-16 06:45:48	davros	having spent so many years fighting what compilers can't do i still have a gut reaction against leaning on them too much hah. but its probably safe
2021-05-16 06:47:43	davros	maybe there's a tool that can show you an intermediate form of the code (not quite 'examine the asm' but 'examine C like pseudocode..')  (maybe such a thing exists for debugging purposes)
2021-05-16 06:48:10	j`ey	llvm-ir?
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2021-05-16 06:49:24	davros	ok
2021-05-16 06:49:39	j`ey	I found some bugs in my rust code by checking the llvm-ir heh
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2021-05-16 06:51:48	davros	https://pasteboard.co/K297kJB.png  un bitrotting and cleaning up a loader i wrote ages ago
2021-05-16 06:53:29	davros	(makes me wonder has anyone out there attempted to rewrite doom or quake1 in rust?)
2021-05-16 06:55:50	fkaa	quite a few results for "rust quake"
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2021-05-16 07:12:53	Death916_Lap	pretty sure theres a doom port on the aur
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2021-05-16 08:07:15	yuri6037	I just found a way to make full name notation completely implicit in my generic ECS: pub fn add_component<'a, TComponentManager: ComponentProvider<TComponent>, TComponent: Sized>(mgr: &'a mut TComponentManager, comp: TComponent) -> usize. I didn't reallize how powerfull rust generics are. Maybe not as powerful as C++ templates but they can achieve very similar things.
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2021-05-16 08:22:30	cschwan	yuri6037: They're not, but I think this is by design. And (proc) macros are IMO a much better way to achieve things that are missing from generics (some template meta programming).
2021-05-16 08:23:19	j`ey	would be good to see a detailed comparison, trying to think of things off the top of my head. variadics, const template arguments (const generics, were slowly getting them)
2021-05-16 08:23:55	yuri6037	yeah I know these issues well these are very bad problems for my generic math lib
2021-05-16 08:25:01	yuri6037	my template math lib has a static Matrix class which takes two sizes and generates a static single dimension array on the stack by multiplying M by N
2021-05-16 08:25:47	yuri6037	in Rust this is currently impossible at least not without a performance penalty which is usage of Vec instead of static array
2021-05-16 08:25:47	j`ey	you can do that in rust now too!
2021-05-16 08:26:14	yuri6037	No this requires const generics evaluation which is still not stable
2021-05-16 08:26:24	j`ey	yuri6037: https://blog.rust-lang.org/2021/03/25/Rust-1.51.0.html#const-generics-mvp
2021-05-16 08:26:35	j`ey	some stuff is there
2021-05-16 08:26:39	j`ey	in stable
2021-05-16 08:27:22	j`ey	oh right, the N * M case may not be on stable
2021-05-16 08:27:59	yuri6037	I know I already tried on a playground. my template Vector can possibly work but not the template Matrix
2021-05-16 08:28:18	j`ey	they will come eventually
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2021-05-16 08:29:28	yuri6037	This is why I'm considering to ditch C++ for the engine at least for the main part of it. I might still use C++ for DX interoporability if rust can't do it
2021-05-16 08:29:42	j`ey	you could probably define the interface, use a Vec and then switch to an array later once you can evaluate N*M
2021-05-16 08:30:22	yuri6037	Yes that was the last resort option. The option in case I code faster than the rust people
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2021-05-16 08:31:38	yuri6037	but don't worry before I can think of porting this lib I have many more things to prepare starting with making this ECS actually usable in any program (2d engine, 3d engine, 2d game server, 3d game server)...
2021-05-16 08:32:01	yuri6037	Also have to finish BPX official rust implementation and the shader compiler
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2021-05-16 08:32:52	yuri6037	Currently implementing a renderer is useless as there would be no way to auto-infer push constants or shader resources...
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2021-05-16 08:33:45	yuri6037	So if I do this, you'd have to manually remember all registers you wanna use and know for what they are used...
2021-05-16 08:35:45	yuri6037	I'm also thinking of perhaps attempting the UI engine using REGECS
2021-05-16 08:36:19	yuri6037	this might be overkill but at least it won't need a nightmare of Rc<RefCell>
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2021-05-16 09:41:48	vilpan	hi, I've just started learning Rust and I can't find something that should be rather trivial - how to run unit tests automatically as part of the build.
2021-05-16 09:41:48	vilpan	Unit tests run fine if I explicitly request that with `cargo test`. However, if I intentionally introduce a test failure and run `cargo run` the application starts normally, while I would like the build to fail due to a unit test failure. How to configure that?
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2021-05-16 09:44:38	j`ey	cargo test && cargo run
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2021-05-16 09:46:49	vilpan	I'd call that a workaround. :)
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2021-05-16 09:47:39	j`ey	I dont think having something built in cargo is really needed for it, since it's such a simple workaround
2021-05-16 09:47:44	bertptrs	just run `cargo test`; it'll build first and then test
2021-05-16 09:48:06	j`ey	you can write a script called 'cargo-test-run', that does cargo test && cargo run, and if that's in your path, you can do: cargo test-run
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2021-05-16 09:53:01	cschwan	`cargo check --tests` or `cargo check --all-targets` doesn't catch test failures but at least checks if they compile
2021-05-16 09:53:13	vilpan	a shell alias would do, I suppose.
2021-05-16 09:53:13	vilpan	I'm just surprised it's not a standard feature. For example, Maven runs unit tests automatically with zero configuration in Java projects if you follow the standard project layout. It's also easy to configure unit tests to be run automatically in a CMake C++ project.
2021-05-16 09:53:36	j`ey	vilpan: run automatically at what point?
2021-05-16 09:53:45	j`ey	for cmake, for example
2021-05-16 09:54:59	Shell	vilpan: set up a CI build system properly, is your answer.
2021-05-16 09:55:14	Shell	Github Actions or something of the sort.
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2021-05-16 09:56:25	j`ey	all cmake projects ive seen have a build and a test command separately
2021-05-16 09:56:59	vilpan	j`ey: before producing the exec would be my preference
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2021-05-16 09:58:35	vilpan	so that test failures would not go unnoticed and you force yourself to fix test failure immediately
2021-05-16 09:59:21	j`ey	I understand the motive, I just dont think it needs to be something baked into cargo, when a shell alias or cargo-test-and-run script in PATH would do, or just cargo test && cargo run
2021-05-16 10:04:36	Shell	j`ey: same. I think I've seen... like, one program ever that runs tests as part of its regular build process.
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2021-05-16 10:06:00	vilpan	the workaround /is/ trivial, but we shouldn't need a workaround. I'd say the sane default would be to run unit tests on every build. Not integration tests, and not on `check`, of course.
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2021-05-16 10:06:44	Shell	Rust doesn't have a concept of integration tests. or of unit tests really. it just has tests. you do whatever you want in them.
2021-05-16 10:07:51	Shell	I wouldn't say it's a workaround, anyway, just a strange expectation on your part? it's very abnormal for me for a build system to run tests when I ask it to build the thing.
2021-05-16 10:08:07	danieldg	vilpan: if you have a lot of tests, they often take a lot of time to run, and that would be bad if you actually wanted to build the main executable in order to test it
2021-05-16 10:08:31	danieldg	and really, this is just a default
2021-05-16 10:10:11	vilpan	Shell: I've had the "pleasure" of taking over projects that do have some unit tests, but a significant percentage of them is already failing - not clear for how long, not clear why... So I think unit tests isn't something that you run occasionally.
2021-05-16 10:10:29	danieldg	so run them as part of the CI before accepting commits
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2021-05-16 10:11:16	danieldg	that provides a nice place where the developer isn't actually waiting but still often enough to encourage not breaking them
2021-05-16 10:11:21	j`ey	vilpan: again, there's no disagreement about running tests
2021-05-16 10:11:35	j`ey	the only disagreement is about running them on every build
2021-05-16 10:12:44	Shell	vilpan: what we do in my sphere is set up CI which runs tests and produces build artifacts in a standardised environment on every pull request.
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2021-05-16 10:13:00	vilpan	defaults like that may encourage developers to follow best practices... or not. Anyway, I understand not everyone shares my idea of best practices. :)
2021-05-16 10:13:15	Shell	(among other things, dev machines tend to be /weird/ and tests will pass on them when they shouldn't...)
2021-05-16 10:13:24	danieldg	imo, a default like that would encourage me to *not write tests*
2021-05-16 10:13:44	Alexendoo	Rust already takes a while in the edit/debug cycle, I think it would have adverse effects if tests worsened that even further
2021-05-16 10:13:46	danieldg	builds are already too slow
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2021-05-16 10:15:21	j`ey	and if youre working on a library, all you need is cargo test, no cargo run needed
2021-05-16 10:16:15	j`ey	add a Command("cargo").arg("test") to the top of main.rs :P
2021-05-16 10:16:16	Shell	but also, yeah. if I'm building a feature, I'd prefer our 4-hour test cycle happen while I'm doing something else, not while I'm trying to fire up the program to verify the new feature functions from a user perspective.
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2021-05-16 10:21:08	vilpan	I maintain that if your build artifact has unit test failures - you don't have a build artifact worthy of further verification. :)  If you verify the new feature and then get the notification of test failures from CI, then the time spent for verification was wasted as you now need to make changes and start testing/manual verification again.
2021-05-16 10:22:23	danieldg	vilpan: that's fine, but it ignores the time it takes to run tests
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2021-05-16 10:23:42	danieldg	you should optimize for the common path, where your changes don't break the tests and so the CI just succeeds
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2021-05-16 10:24:51	Alexendoo	Also not everyone is doing TDD
2021-05-16 10:25:10	Shell	vilpan: my manual verification is "does the thing actually do roughly what I expect and not crash with my random collection of inputs", we have a QA team for /actual/ verification, I just want to see that what I'm giving them makes any sense at all.
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2021-05-16 10:31:17	Shell	also, like, honestly, I cannot do 8 hours a day of coding work and I envy anyone who can. the time I spend watching renditions of Big Buck Bunny is not time that would otherwise be spent doing anything particularly useful to anyone. :p
2021-05-16 10:32:02	vilpan	we'll see, maybe I'll change my mind, at least wrt build time once I start building larger projects :) Although, unit test run time has never been an issue so far on the projects I've worked with. Integration tests are a different matter, of course.
2021-05-16 10:32:58	Shell	vilpan: fwiw building the unit test artifact for Rust is a separate build entirely from the debug/release artifact, so you'd be basically doubling your build time, aiui.
2021-05-16 10:33:39	Shell	given I have programs that can take 5-10 minutes to build in the first place... *shiver*
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2021-05-16 11:01:11	trevarj	Shell should i google Big Buck Bunny?
2021-05-16 11:03:35	Shell	trevarj: it's the Blender Foundation's first open-source movie. I have... a few dozen reencodings of it. :p
2021-05-16 11:04:47	Shell	trevarj: https://archive.org/details/BigBuckBunny1280x720Stereo :p
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2021-05-16 11:29:12	georgemp	Hi, in this code why does the compiler not accept my closure as FnOnce on line 26, but, does if setup as line 27-34?
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2021-05-16 11:31:39	Shell	georgemp: you need to link your code :)
2021-05-16 11:32:07	georgemp	Shell: sorry :) https://gist.github.com/georgemp/eb13cce8ce2ea320dcb646aa460a9e3e
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2021-05-16 11:33:23	danieldg	georgemp: forgot a move?
2021-05-16 11:34:02	georgemp	danieldg: both the closures use move?
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2021-05-16 11:34:45	danieldg	georgemp: ah, the compiler is incorrectly inferring the type of map
2021-05-16 11:35:15	danieldg	it's not creating the trait object for you
2021-05-16 11:37:56	georgemp	danieldg: can i give it more info so that it infers the type correctly?
2021-05-16 11:38:34	danieldg	sure, toss in a 'as Box<dyn FnOnce ...>
2021-05-16 11:39:48	trevarj	Shell wow this is like the original Big Chungus
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2021-05-16 11:40:41	georgemp	danieldg: thanks..that worked fine :)
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2021-05-16 11:41:09	georgemp	now, to figure out the rest of this Ffi madness I seem to have stepped into :)
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2021-05-16 11:49:40	Shell	trevarj: video people are utterly sick of this video :P
2021-05-16 11:50:14	Shell	(drink every time you see Big Buck Bunny at a conference)
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2021-05-16 12:43:57	freylint	Is there a way to tell cargo to build different workspace members for different targets? Appears to only respect the .cargo/config of the root workspace crate.
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2021-05-16 12:46:57	trevarj	freylint yes, it's unstable but recently merged
2021-05-16 12:47:20	trevarj	https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/pull/9030
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2021-05-16 12:54:26	j`ey	trevarj: can you see an example somewhere
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2021-05-16 12:58:12	eyeris	If I have `let f = f();` and I want to call `f()` against on the next line, is there a way to disambiguate those?
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2021-05-16 12:58:21	eyeris	again*
2021-05-16 12:58:42	j`ey	disambiguate them in what way?
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2021-05-16 12:59:48	GreenJello	if 'fn f' is at the module level, let g = self::f();
2021-05-16 12:59:57	eyeris	The compiler will complain that the second function call requires a function because the local variable `f` is shadowing the function `f`
2021-05-16 13:00:04	j`ey	oh derp
2021-05-16 13:00:33	j`ey	(read too quickly, didnt see the variable was called f)
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2021-05-16 13:02:54	trevarj	j`ey no i have yet to try it myself, despite waiting patiently for that feature
2021-05-16 13:03:10	j`ey	trevarj: youre a pro at crastinating
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2021-05-16 13:06:37	trevarj	j`ey ba dum tsss :]
2021-05-16 13:06:45	j`ey	:]
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2021-05-16 13:07:25	trevarj	it was for work anyway and they can heck off on the weekend!
2021-05-16 13:07:33	j`ey	true
2021-05-16 13:15:40	eyeris	If I have a function with a lifetime param 'b, in `let x: String = f()` what is the syntax for making x live as long as 'b?
2021-05-16 13:16:00	j`ey	eyeris: it doesnt work like that
2021-05-16 13:16:00	eyeris	I thought it would be `let x: 'b String = f()` but that gives me a syntax error.
2021-05-16 13:16:24	j`ey	might be better if you paste the function/usage
2021-05-16 13:16:37	trevarj	j`ey once i find my true passion i'll stop crastinating. one project on my mind right now is a rust/linux distro, opposed to gnu/linux. i bet there is already one in development but i'm not going to google to pretend i came up with the idea
2021-05-16 13:16:56	j`ey	you cant force something to live as long as some lifetime, you have to reogranise the code
2021-05-16 13:17:02	eyeris	https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/blob/main/crates/bevy_gltf/src/loader.rs#L227
2021-05-16 13:17:10	j`ey	trevarj: lol, someone already did it, no google needed :p
2021-05-16 13:17:19	j`ey	trevarj: https://sylvestre.ledru.info/blog/2021/03/09/debian-running-on-rust-coreutils
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2021-05-16 13:17:48	eyeris	I want to call something like `named_nodes_intermediate.insert(node_label, node.index())`
2021-05-16 13:19:09	hussam	hi. Just to I understand correctly, cranelift is a planned alternative to LLVM for Rust?
2021-05-16 13:19:21	j`ey	hussam: yeah
2021-05-16 13:19:37	GreenJello	eyeris, you just need to clone node_label when using it earlier
2021-05-16 13:20:16	GreenJello	unless named_nodes_intermediate lives longer than nodes_intermediate
2021-05-16 13:20:26	trevarj	j`ey rats...i meant like a purely new distro. it's cheating to go off of debian
2021-05-16 13:20:30	hussam	That's great. and I presume that this would remove and indrect C++ dependency?
2021-05-16 13:20:31	GreenJello	it's a bit too much code to quickly scan
2021-05-16 13:20:39	hussam	an* indirect
2021-05-16 13:20:51	j`ey	hussam: yes, apart from you still need a linker
2021-05-16 13:21:10	j`ey	trevarj: hehe
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2021-05-16 13:22:53	eyeris	nodes_intermediate is tossed out but named_nodes is returned by the fn
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2021-05-16 13:30:48	eyeris	It seems like the difference is that the tuple in the `nodes_intermediate.push((node_label, ...))` call holds onto the `node_label` value past the end of the loop block but the `named_nodes_intermediate.insert(node_label.as_str(), ...)` doesn't have the same effect. Given `insert` requires the `&str` type, is there _any_ way I can use the `String` to produce the insert key?
2021-05-16 13:32:25	GreenJello	eyeris, definitely not going to work with as_str, as that's borrowing a local variable
2021-05-16 13:34:07	GreenJello	and insert doesn't require &str; it's generic over the type of the hashmap key
2021-05-16 13:34:19	GreenJello	you should be able to use String as the key
2021-05-16 13:34:39	GreenJello	you might have to change other code for that to work, though
2021-05-16 13:35:43	eyeris	right, it is inferred from the existing call
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2021-05-16 13:37:13	eyeris	I guess I can wrap that w/ `String::from(node_label)` and use `String` for both easily enough since this hashmap is internal to the function.
2021-05-16 13:37:41	eyeris	err, `String::from(name)`
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2021-05-16 13:47:32	GreenJello	sure, that should work
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2021-05-16 14:01:42	Bish	j`ey: now im curious what is the alternative to llvm?
2021-05-16 14:03:40	j`ey	Bish: cranelift
2021-05-16 14:04:04	j`ey	a code generator written in rust
2021-05-16 14:04:41	Bish	is llvm a "code generator" is that the term that is used?
2021-05-16 14:04:46	electricityZZZZ	i've learned some rust and it has become my go-to language for most things now. lately i have been trying to learn some haskell but it's a very bumpy ride and i keep wanting to bail. are there haskell literate folks here? if i keep going what will i be able to do with haskell which i can't do/would have a hard time doing with rust?
2021-05-16 14:04:49	j`ey	Bish: i guess
2021-05-16 14:04:54	j`ey	compiler backend, something
2021-05-16 14:05:08	Bish	i always figured the compiler backend is the thing you write with llvm
2021-05-16 14:05:25	Bish	ah no, sorry
2021-05-16 14:05:29	Bish	im confused, as usual
2021-05-16 14:05:44	j`ey	its vauge, doesnt really matter, as long as you know what llvm does :P
2021-05-16 14:06:39	j`ey	rustc uses LLVM to convert llvm-ir into machine code. rustc (can) use cranelift to convert clif into machine code
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2021-05-16 14:08:21	Bish	eheh, clif
2021-05-16 14:08:42	j`ey	crane lift intermediate form, something like that :P
2021-05-16 14:08:44	Bish	i remember googling for an llvm alternative
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2021-05-16 14:08:54	Bish	i didnt find that thing back then
2021-05-16 14:09:21	j`ey	there's a few others, like uh.. QBE? I think it is
2021-05-16 14:09:30	j`ey	libfirm? another
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2021-05-16 14:10:48	Bish	i think i found one, and it was none of those
2021-05-16 14:11:47	j`ey	i worked on LLVM for quite a few years, it was fun
2021-05-16 14:12:00	kpcyrd	electricityZZZZ: I'm not good with haskell but I found rust to be easier to use
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2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Topic for ##rust is "Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language |  Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Topic set by Manishearth (~Manishear@wikipedia/Manishearth) on Sun, 12 May 2019 23:47:40
2021-05-16 14:15:39	--	Channel ##rust: 699 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 698 normals)
2021-05-16 14:15:41	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
2021-05-16 14:18:05	wizzwizz4	I'd be happy with actual Tk, but all the Tokio packages have left me unable to find out whether anyone's made Tk bindings.
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2021-05-16 14:22:39	Freylint[m]	wizzwizz4 I don't see actualy tkinter bindings, but I found this https://crates.io/crates/rustty-oxide
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2021-05-16 14:25:08	wizzwizz4	Freylint[m]: Thanks, but that's a terminal UI library.
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2021-05-16 14:27:10	wizzwizz4	Really I just need OS-native-ish multi-line textboxes that can cope with English. (For once, the text's language is guaranteed to be English.)
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2021-05-16 14:44:15	trevarj	wizzwizz4 did you try a native rust one? there are a bunch it seems (areweguiyet site or whatever)
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2021-05-16 15:02:04	wizzwizz4	trevarj: I didn't, because I'm a petulant child who wants native GUI. (No such library exists, so I guess I'll have to compromise in some way.)
2021-05-16 15:04:41	wizzwizz4	There's no type-level way of making sure something runs in the main thread, is there?
2021-05-16 15:05:11	danieldg	nope, only 'same thread'
2021-05-16 15:05:48	danieldg	in general you don't want a 'main thread' anyway
2021-05-16 15:06:40	wizzwizz4	macOS considers the main thread special and only lets you run GUI from it.
2021-05-16 15:06:53	davros	"the opengl thread".. unsafe gl calls.. assert somehow
2021-05-16 15:07:09	--	evdubs__ is now known as evdubs
2021-05-16 15:07:12	wizzwizz4	So the only option is "panic early and wait for the dev to fix it"?
2021-05-16 15:08:15	danieldg	yep.  You can require passing a non-Send object and just check on the first creation
2021-05-16 15:08:45	danieldg	that will basically guarantee the developer will see the error if they do it wrong
2021-05-16 15:08:50	wizzwizz4	Actually, does macOS have the same "new process sharing memory" type thing that Linux has?
2021-05-16 15:08:57	danieldg	no clue
2021-05-16 15:09:07	wizzwizz4	If so, I could create a new "main thread"…
2021-05-16 15:09:34	danieldg	I'd guess no because they have this strange restriction in the first place
2021-05-16 15:10:02	wizzwizz4	Probably. But they support UNIX-style shared memory, which is probably good enough.
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2021-05-16 15:11:02	wizzwizz4	I don't have a macOS machine anyway, so the point is moot.
2021-05-16 15:11:24	nitrix	Moot OS X.
2021-05-16 15:12:13	wizzwizz4	Moot all OSs but one; that way, we don't have to worry about cross-platform.
2021-05-16 15:12:16	wizzwizz4	But which OS will prevail?
2021-05-16 15:12:43	danieldg	chrome
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2021-05-16 15:14:30	nitrix	Probably something written in Minecraft Redstone.
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2021-05-16 15:15:27	nitrix	The adults are too busy arguing about the color of the shed.
2021-05-16 15:16:04	georgemp	danieldg: if you remember my issue from https://gist.github.com/georgemp/eb13cce8ce2ea320dcb646aa460a9e3e where the compiler was having trouble determining the type and constructing a FnOnce() trait object. Is there a way for me to do `as Box<dyn FnOnce() + Send>` instead of `as Box<dyn FnOnce()>`?
2021-05-16 15:16:06	danieldg	it's red, of course, don't you see the name?
2021-05-16 15:16:12	wizzwizz4	Whatever brand of MINIX is in x86 processors; enough speculative execution vulnerabilities are discovered that that becomes the new WebAssembly.
2021-05-16 15:16:37	danieldg	wizzwizz4: minix was in a coprocessor, to be precies
2021-05-16 15:16:45	georgemp	i've run into an error `as expressions need to coerce to a single trait object`
2021-05-16 15:17:00	georgemp	single/specific
2021-05-16 15:17:07	danieldg	georgemp: I think that's valid, yes
2021-05-16 15:17:36	nitrix	Is the Deref trait the canonical way of providing implicit coercions? I'm looking at String/&str right now but I'm extrapolating broader.
2021-05-16 15:17:38	wizzwizz4	georgemp: Create a new trait that `: FnOnce() + Send`, and auto-implement for `T: FnOnce() + Send`, perhaps?
2021-05-16 15:17:49	danieldg	nitrix: yes
2021-05-16 15:18:12	danieldg	wizzwizz4: that's how you do it for non-marker traits, but Send doesn't require that
2021-05-16 15:18:34	nitrix	danieldg, I'm guessing that has the usual problem when the kind is mismatched (owned vs ref) and need the &* uglyness?
2021-05-16 15:19:05	danieldg	nitrix: only in cases where autoderef doesn't work, but yes
2021-05-16 15:19:21	nitrix	danieldg, Cool thanks. This is more intuitive than I thought.
2021-05-16 15:19:36	danieldg	one * does one invocation of deref()
2021-05-16 15:20:46	nitrix	danieldg, Is the dereference ever done implicitly or it's always hidden down somewhere? I'm realizing now that println! probably does * if it sees that it can.
2021-05-16 15:20:57	danieldg	nitrix: autoderef
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2021-05-16 15:21:07	 *	nitrix googles that.
2021-05-16 15:21:41	nitrix	I see. It's language semantic.
2021-05-16 15:22:43	danieldg	println requires an impl of Display (or Debug or ...) and puts an & before each arg, allowing autoderef to search them
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2021-05-16 15:23:55	Arnavion	It's not autoderef. Display / Debug are impled for &T to do the *
2021-05-16 15:25:40	nitrix	That's still beyond my reach. I think I'm content with just knowing that . automatically searches the method down the "deref tree".
2021-05-16 15:27:16	georgemp	danieldg: thanks..i had misplaced a closing ')' and gotten the code a bit mixed up
2021-05-16 15:29:15	Arnavion	evalr: if true { 1 } else { 0 } + if true { 1 } else { 0 } + if true { 1 } else { 0 }
2021-05-16 15:29:19	--	Notice(evalr): error: expected expression, found `+`
2021-05-16 15:29:20	--	Notice(evalr): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=7e1d10713df7468d1d98637987083e67&version=stable&mode=debug
2021-05-16 15:29:21	Arnavion	evalr: (if true { 1 } else { 0 }) + if true { 1 } else { 0 } + if true { 1 } else { 0 }
2021-05-16 15:29:24	--	Notice(evalr): 3
2021-05-16 15:29:26	Arnavion	Well that's annoying
2021-05-16 15:29:36	wizzwizz4	If I have a crate with lots of backends, should the "autoselect a backend" crate be called `projectname`, with `projectname-core` containing the crates and stuff?
2021-05-16 15:29:44	wizzwizz4	*traits
2021-05-16 15:30:27	Arnavion	(If my code generator emits () around all the ifs, then there's a rustc warning about unnecessary parens, so either I have to #[allow] it or make the generator keep track of how many it's emitted)
2021-05-16 15:31:20	danieldg	huh, that seems like a misparse to me (the first should be valid)
2021-05-16 15:31:38	j`ey	evalr: if true { 1 } else { 0 } + if true { 1 } else { 0 }
2021-05-16 15:31:43	--	Notice(evalr): error: expected expression, found `+`
2021-05-16 15:31:44	--	Notice(evalr): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=eb7b2e7c3e0ba3b9548b44f9ca30e830&version=stable&mode=debug
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2021-05-16 15:32:52	danieldg	prepending a 0+ makes it work
2021-05-16 15:33:26	Arnavion	Yes, and then clippy complains about *that*
2021-05-16 15:33:33	j`ey	lol
2021-05-16 15:33:36	j`ey	you cant win!
2021-05-16 15:33:47	danieldg	prepending a 1-1+?
2021-05-16 15:33:56	wizzwizz4	`const ZERO: u8 = 0;`
2021-05-16 15:34:18	Arnavion	Nah. I'm already keeping track of things so I might as well track this one too. It's just annoying
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2021-05-16 15:37:57	Arnavion	Actually, ugh
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2021-05-16 15:38:30	Arnavion	Just one by itself doesn't need parens, two or more do need it, except if there's another `constant+` before them
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2021-05-16 15:39:44	--	Topic set by Manishearth (~Manishear@wikipedia/Manishearth) on Sun, 12 May 2019 23:47:40
2021-05-16 15:39:44	--	Channel ##rust: 704 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 703 normals)
2021-05-16 15:39:46	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
2021-05-16 15:40:00	Arnavion	I'll just #[allow] it. It's all generated code anyway
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2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Topic for ##rust is "Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language |  Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Topic set by Manishearth (~Manishear@wikipedia/Manishearth) on Sun, 12 May 2019 23:47:40
2021-05-16 15:42:47	--	Channel ##rust: 704 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 703 normals)
2021-05-16 15:42:49	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-05-16 15:51:53	Arnavion	... or   cond.then(|| 0).unwrap_or(1)   which does indeed compile exactly the same as the if-else
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2021-05-16 16:01:16	danieldg	Arnavion: well, that's backwards 0/1 wise...  you can also u8::from(cond)
2021-05-16 16:01:55	Arnavion	To be clear, the example I showed for the syntax error was backwards from what my program actually does (because the point was to demonstrate the syntax error)
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2021-05-16 16:03:55	Arnavion	And yes,   usize::from(!cond)   is a good idea
2021-05-16 16:04:19	j`ey	but true and false arent 1 and 0!!!
2021-05-16 16:04:48	Arnavion	t. urbit user
2021-05-16 16:05:12	danieldg	what are they - 4 and 5?
2021-05-16 16:05:15	j`ey	urbit confuses the hell out of me
2021-05-16 16:05:35	Arnavion	true is 0, false is 1 in nock (urbit's VM language)
2021-05-16 16:06:19	danieldg	do they also modify the bitwise operators to act correctly?
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2021-05-16 16:06:36	Arnavion	I don't know if it has bitwise operators
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2021-05-16 16:06:52	Arnavion	btw they're called loobeans
2021-05-16 16:06:58	danieldg	if so, they're just fixing the old "electrons are negative" problem :)
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2021-05-16 16:51:01	Bish	 only traits defined in the current crate can be implemented for arbitrary types, why is that :o
2021-05-16 16:51:10	j`ey	orphan rules
2021-05-16 16:51:23	j`ey	otherwise two crates could impl the same trait for the same type
2021-05-16 16:51:52	Bish	and what if i want "ToRedisArgs" for the Uuid type (of some uuid crate) ?
2021-05-16 16:51:56	Bish	typealias it?
2021-05-16 16:52:32	j`ey	newtype, not a type alias
2021-05-16 16:53:25	Bish	so .. i wrap it into a struct?
2021-05-16 16:53:30	j`ey	yep
2021-05-16 16:53:35	Arnavion	or convince either the uuid crate's maintainers to add an optional redis feature with that impl, or the redis crate's maintainers to add an optional uuid feature with that impl
2021-05-16 16:53:39	j`ey	struct MyUuid(Uuid);
2021-05-16 16:53:53	Bish	an unary struct, so to speak?
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2021-05-16 16:54:18	j`ey	tuple struct it's called
2021-05-16 16:55:26	Bish	self.0 is a weird syntax, though
2021-05-16 16:55:33	Bish	shouldn't this be syntax sugar'd
2021-05-16 16:55:50	j`ey	its the same syntax as a tuple
2021-05-16 16:56:12	Bish	yeah i don't say i don't understand it, i say it feels like a hack
2021-05-16 16:56:27	GreenJello	you're free to name the field instead
2021-05-16 16:56:50	Bish	but naming it seems dumb, considering i know ther eis only one thing and it's the thing i name it
2021-05-16 16:56:53	GreenJello	it's just more code for the definition and all usage of it
2021-05-16 16:57:31	j`ey	Bish: more sugar would be a hack imo
2021-05-16 16:58:50	Bish	back to the roots
2021-05-16 16:58:53	Bish	asm! all the way
2021-05-16 17:00:04	j`ey	asm!() https://doc.rust-lang.org/unstable-book/library-features/asm.html
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2021-05-16 17:14:46	Arnavion	evalr: use std::ptr; struct S { foo: usize, ptr: ptr::NonNull<i32> } (std::mem::size_of::<S>(), std::mem::size_of::<Option<S>>(), { let s = S { foo: 5, ptr: ptr::NonNull::new(0x6 as *mut i32).unwrap() }; ptr::addr_of!(s.foo) as usize - ptr::addr_of!(s) as usize })
2021-05-16 17:14:48	--	Notice(evalr): (16, 16, 0)
2021-05-16 17:15:06	Arnavion	I didn't know Option niche-ing would work even if the nonzero field isn't the first
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2021-05-16 17:17:14	Arnavion	And just to be sure it's not that Option<S> has a different layout than S,   https://rust.godbolt.org/z/ThEsWYKcP  has Option<i32>'s Debug::fmt looks at [rdi] != 1 to print None, whereas Option<S>'s looks at [rdi + 8] == 0, ie the second field, to print None
2021-05-16 17:20:30	j`ey	it can just reorder the fields?
2021-05-16 17:20:44	Arnavion	Notice the third value in the tuple
2021-05-16 17:21:41	j`ey	ah
2021-05-16 17:22:33	Bish	j`ey: yeah that's what i was refering to :p
2021-05-16 17:23:11	j`ey	Bish: ah, i thought i was being funny by showing that, i thought you were just using the ! for emphasis, not to sugges the macro :p
2021-05-16 17:23:33	j`ey	Arnavion: pretty cool stuff
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2021-05-16 17:27:13	j`ey	I keep forgetting that ptr::addr_of takes a &T, not a *const T
2021-05-16 17:29:19	Arnavion	Well it taking a *const would be pointless, given it's meant to be used when *const can't exist
2021-05-16 17:30:23	Arnavion	Well, s/exist/be created/
2021-05-16 17:30:46	j`ey	well the input has to be something that could be created
2021-05-16 17:30:57	j`ey	since the input is a &T you can just cast that to t a *T
2021-05-16 17:31:22	Arnavion	It doesn't take a &T. It takes (an expression of) T
2021-05-16 17:31:23	j`ey	ok ignore that
2021-05-16 17:31:45	j`ey	what I mean is that, I want: addr_of(NonNull::<T>::dangling().foo)
2021-05-16 17:32:29	Arnavion	Right, you can't use it for offsetof without an actual value
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2021-05-16 17:33:58	danieldg	is it really that hard to implement offsetof?
2021-05-16 17:34:17	danieldg	(for the compiler people, that is)
2021-05-16 17:34:32	j`ey	is that an offer to work on it? :P
2021-05-16 17:35:11	j`ey	im sure there's some... good reasons for it
2021-05-16 17:35:47	bertptrs	I imagine the calling method would land it in limbo forever
2021-05-16 17:36:19	j`ey	the calling method?
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2021-05-16 17:36:39	danieldg	it's trivial to do, but it's not within the safety rules
2021-05-16 17:36:53	danieldg	so imo it's not code that is lacking, just rules
2021-05-16 17:37:30	j`ey	it's just a compile time integer!
2021-05-16 17:38:16	bertptrs	Yes, but in safe rust it's not possible to take the address of a property without dereferencing the entire object
2021-05-16 17:38:28	bertptrs	and any new syntax for that would be… controversial
2021-05-16 17:38:45	danieldg	j`ey: there's also a few edge cases like:  struct Foo<T> { t : T } - what is offsetof!(Foo<Infallible>, t)?
2021-05-16 17:39:25	Arnavion	Could be a compiler error
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2021-05-16 17:39:39	bertptrs	The address of uninhabited types could be similar to zsts
2021-05-16 17:39:48	j`ey	danieldg: -1 :P
2021-05-16 17:40:11	danieldg	better question: struct Foo<T> { t : T, v : u8 } - what is offsetof!(Foo<Infallible>, v)
2021-05-16 17:40:21	Arnavion	Could also be a compiler error
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2021-05-16 17:40:42	bertptrs	could also just be 0
2021-05-16 17:41:03	j`ey	Infallible considered harmful
2021-05-16 17:41:07	Arnavion	My point it doesn't have to cater to use cases where it wouldn't be reasonably used in the first place
2021-05-16 17:41:32	Arnavion	And that includes being unable to be used inside a fn generic on T, since T isn't known at that point
2021-05-16 17:42:03	Arnavion	ie   fn foo<T>() -> usize { offset_of!(Foo<T>, t) }   can be a compiler error too
2021-05-16 17:42:23	danieldg	hmm, that seems much less flexible than I'd like
2021-05-16 17:42:34	j`ey	well T doesnt have fields we know about anyway
2021-05-16 17:42:37	j`ey	just like with traits
2021-05-16 17:42:48	Arnavion	The field is of Foo, not T
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2021-05-16 17:42:55	j`ey	derp
2021-05-16 17:43:06	 *	j`ey clearly not able to read tonight
2021-05-16 17:43:29	bertptrs	In that case offset_of could be well-defined and I think it should have a reasonable definition
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2021-05-16 17:44:59	danieldg	I guess you could easily define it like discriminant - some arbitrary integer for types where it's not valid (containing Infallible, etc) and the right value otherwise
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2021-05-16 17:45:55	bertptrs	evalr: std::mem::size_of::<std::convert::Infallible>()
2021-05-16 17:46:01	--	Notice(evalr): 0
2021-05-16 17:46:16	bertptrs	You can just use that to compute the right offset
2021-05-16 17:46:21	bertptrs	No need to make things undefined
2021-05-16 17:47:23	danieldg	evalr: std::mem::size_of::<(std::convert::Infallible, u8)>()
2021-05-16 17:47:26	--	Notice(evalr): 1
2021-05-16 17:47:38	bertptrs	Coming from C++, the less UB the better
2021-05-16 17:47:41	danieldg	I guess it already does that
2021-05-16 17:48:13	danieldg	I wasn't suggesting UB, just that it didn't need to actually do the layout
2021-05-16 17:48:26	danieldg	(i.e. it could return 0 for all fields)
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2021-05-16 17:49:00	danieldg	but laying out as if uninhabited were zst is probably better
2021-05-16 17:49:09	bertptrs	less conflicts that way
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2021-05-16 17:49:26	bertptrs	or at least fewer metaphysical discussions
2021-05-16 17:49:42	 *	bertptrs ponders the meaning of offsets
2021-05-16 17:50:43	j`ey	bertptrs: too late on a sunday for that
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2021-05-16 17:51:22	bertptrs	j`ey: not untrue, but it lets me ask silly questions like "if a tree falls in the woods, but no one has a pointer to it, do its branches still have an offset?"
2021-05-16 17:52:16	 *	j`ey brainmelts
2021-05-16 17:52:31	Arnavion	evalr: struct S(std::convert::Infallible); impl Default for S { fn default() -> Self { unimplemented!(); } } fn foo<T: Default>() -> usize { let t = T::default(); std::mem::size_of_val(&t) } foo::<S>()
2021-05-16 17:52:34	--	Notice(evalr): thread 'main' panicked at 'not implemented', src/main.rs:6:89
2021-05-16 17:52:35	--	Notice(evalr): ~~~ Full output: https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=39233b868c2f00d854ce766670fe4a9a&version=stable&mode=debug
2021-05-16 17:52:38	Arnavion	Speaking of trees falling in woods
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2021-05-16 17:53:35	j`ey	what's that showing?
2021-05-16 17:54:03	danieldg	... I think that shows trying to climb a tree that isn't there makes you fall down
2021-05-16 17:54:04	Arnavion	It *could*'ve been optimized to constant 0, but wasn't because of side-effects
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2021-05-16 17:54:11	bertptrs	the result of T::default is not actually used, but it is still called because Default is not guaranteed to not have side-effects
2021-05-16 17:54:31	bertptrs	And it has a side-effect, because it calls panic()
2021-05-16 17:55:10	danieldg	you can create a vec with capacity to store structs that can't exist, that's more like finding undef-trees
2021-05-16 17:56:13	bertptrs	evalr: std::mem::size_of_val(&Vec::<std::convert::Infallible>::with_capacity(1024))
2021-05-16 17:56:17	--	Notice(evalr): 24
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2021-05-16 17:57:33	bertptrs	Not sure how to get Vec to tell me the byte-length of its buffer
2021-05-16 17:57:48	danieldg	.capacity
2021-05-16 17:57:48	bertptrs	Maybe it's time to go to bed before a tree falls on me
2021-05-16 17:58:09	Arnavion	.capacity() is in units of T, not bytes
2021-05-16 17:58:11	bertptrs	danieldg: not true, that is measured in terms of T, not bytes
2021-05-16 17:58:26	danieldg	well yeah, then you multiply by size-of-T
2021-05-16 17:58:30	Arnavion	In any case, for ZSTs it doesn't allocate
2021-05-16 17:58:42	bertptrs	Nice, I was wondering about that
2021-05-16 17:58:54	bertptrs	I imagine Box doesn't either
2021-05-16 18:00:07	danieldg	iirc alloc apis all require non-zero sizes as input
2021-05-16 18:00:28	danieldg	so it can't call them
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2021-05-16 18:00:31	Arnavion	(   https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/alloc/raw_vec.rs.html   L188 + L135)
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2021-05-16 18:01:43	bertptrs	Nice. Could be slightly more optimized by just storing length but then again how many people have a significant number of Vecs of ZST
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2021-05-16 18:02:28	danieldg	I don't think you can easily get a type that changes size if a generic is ZST versus real-data
2021-05-16 18:03:01	bertptrs	you might with some very complicated const generics (i can see this being done in C++) but not right now
2021-05-16 18:03:12	Arnavion	Sufficiently smart compiler could notice the real .capacity is never used, or something
2021-05-16 18:03:41	bertptrs	Sufficiently smart compilers are indistinguishable from magic
2021-05-16 18:04:37	danieldg	maybe Pointee needs an associated type added - SliceSizeType - which is () for zst and usize for others
2021-05-16 18:05:02	Arnavion	Yes, though you need something generic over all ZSTs to handle user-defined ones
2021-05-16 18:05:22	danieldg	yeah, it has to be a compiler-generated trait
2021-05-16 18:05:49	bertptrs	An automatic trait could do this
2021-05-16 18:06:16	Arnavion	or something with const generics. Bind size_of<T> to a generic and bound it on == 0
2021-05-16 18:06:45	danieldg	I'd also like to see struct MakeNonZst<T>(pub T, SomethingElse<T>); whose size is always >= 1
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2021-05-16 18:07:19	danieldg	and ideally the size is equal to sizeof-T for T=u64 and such
2021-05-16 18:07:20	bertptrs	where SomethingElse is a ZST if T isn't
2021-05-16 18:07:26	danieldg	yep
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2021-05-16 18:42:51	nitrix	Is there a convenient way to omit struct members when the type implements the Default trait?
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2021-05-16 18:43:28	danieldg	Typ { a : 4, ..Default::default() }
2021-05-16 18:43:36	nitrix	Awesome, thanks.
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2021-05-16 18:59:11	Arnavion	sfackler: Re   https://github.com/sfackler/rust-native-tls/pull/116#discussion_r250053355   I recently fixed the same "duplicate cert error that should be considered harmless" bug in my openssl-using program, and was wondering if there was any reason to ignore more errors than just that one which made you change your mind, or you just hadn't gotten around to it
2021-05-16 19:00:11	sfackler	oh yeah, I just forgot about that
2021-05-16 19:00:27	Arnavion	Okay, thanks
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2021-05-17 02:07:06	_habnabit	Bish, you'd need TryFrom for something like `enum E { A = 1 }` because there's many different integer values which can't be converted into enum values
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2021-05-17 03:50:16	Bish	_habnabit: yeah i figured, but im confused as why it works the other way around
2021-05-17 03:50:44	Bish	can i make rust-analyzer format my code in any way?
2021-05-17 03:52:16	adder``	there is rustfmt
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2021-05-17 03:54:16	Bish	but that doesn't indent, atleast not by default, as it seems?
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2021-05-17 04:04:44	jbg	huh? of course it indents
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2021-05-17 04:13:45	trevarj	is there a way to see a commit hash for a crates.io crate version? the author doesn't tag releases
2021-05-17 04:14:07	Mutabah	No, but you can download the source tarball
2021-05-17 04:14:15	Bish	jbg: if i didn't have rust-analyzer how would i make rustfmt indent?
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2021-05-17 04:15:41	jbg	`cargo fmt` or just run rustfmt directly
2021-05-17 04:15:47	jbg	I don't see how rust-analyzer has anything to do with this?
2021-05-17 04:16:37	Bish	well it's all i know ^_^
2021-05-17 04:16:50	Bish	and i tried calling rustfmt directly, and it didn't do anything but display errors which are none
2021-05-17 04:16:55	Bish	so i got something wrong
2021-05-17 04:17:15	Bish	and i didn't know "cargo fmt" was a thing
2021-05-17 04:17:37	trevarj	it's weird that a huge crate like ring doesn't tag releases
2021-05-17 04:18:30	Bish	can i convince fmt to make 2 spaces instead of 4 or will i be hated by the whole rust community
2021-05-17 04:19:04	jbg	calling rustfmt directly is like calling rustc directly
2021-05-17 04:19:12	jbg	`cargo fmt` just runs rustfmt on all your source files
2021-05-17 04:19:22	jbg	and yes, I use 2 spaces (don't hate me!)
2021-05-17 04:19:32	jbg	just make a rustfmt.toml in your crate root
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2021-05-17 04:19:43	jbg	and put tab_spaces = 2
2021-05-17 04:19:58	jbg	this is very well documented, like most rust-related things, btw
2021-05-17 04:20:00	Bish	jbg: thanks
2021-05-17 04:20:05	jbg	the first result on google for "rustfmt 2 spaces" is even useful
2021-05-17 04:20:24	Bish	well i figured i'd find something that tells me how to use rustfmt not cargo fmt :D
2021-05-17 04:20:27	Bish	not even kidding
2021-05-17 04:26:28	jbg	yeah, they are the same thing
2021-05-17 04:26:42	jbg	rustfmt is to cargo fmt as rustc is to cargo build
2021-05-17 04:27:24	jbg	btw I don't think 2 spaces is that weird. the setting I usually get flak for is `control_brace_style = "ClosingNextLine"`
2021-05-17 04:29:22	j`ey	ew
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2021-05-17 04:33:11	jbg	see? :P
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2021-05-17 04:37:01	Bish	whats the difference to the default? i can't see it lol
2021-05-17 04:37:16	j`ey	newline after the }
2021-05-17 04:37:17	Bish	oh no, i always found } else { looks weird
2021-05-17 04:37:36	Bish	so im with you on this one jbg ^^
2021-05-17 04:38:27	trevarj	jbg i'm with you on that one
2021-05-17 04:38:57	j`ey	trevarj: traitor!
2021-05-17 04:39:07	jbg	it means you can remove an else block by just removing lines, for example
2021-05-17 04:39:09	trevarj	D:
2021-05-17 04:39:18	jbg	and I find it just looks more balanced, the if part and the else part are structured the same way
2021-05-17 04:39:50	j`ey	I prefer '} else', to me it looks more like a follow on
2021-05-17 04:39:58	trevarj	i think we would all agree AlwaysNextLine is the worst
2021-05-17 04:40:03	j`ey	'}\nelse' is like a separate statemenr
2021-05-17 04:40:30	Bish	what do i do if i want to serialize datetime and it hasn't got the trait?
2021-05-17 04:40:34	j`ey	trevarj: i prefer that over ClosingNextLine
2021-05-17 04:40:38	Bish	again: wrapping it into tuple structs?
2021-05-17 04:40:51	jbg	Bish: depends where you got this 'datetime' from
2021-05-17 04:40:59	trevarj	j`ey is that a K&R thing?
2021-05-17 04:41:03	jbg	if it's chrono, it has a serde feature that adds serde::Deserialize and serde::Serialize impls
2021-05-17 04:41:09	jbg	(assuming by "serialize" you mean using serde)
2021-05-17 04:41:21	Bish	yes and yes, and sorry for not googling
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2021-05-17 04:41:57	j`ey	trevarj: maybe. but I didnt learn from k&r :P
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2021-05-17 05:01:01	Bish	i just refactored my code to use serialize to write structs to redis this is amazing
2021-05-17 05:01:04	Bish	what a charm!
2021-05-17 05:01:35	Bish	Value::Data(v) => Ok(deserialize(v).unwrap()) ⇐ this is mind-boggling!
2021-05-17 05:01:39	Bish	i love it
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2021-05-17 05:02:22	Bish	what would you guys do if i wanted to ditch redis, would you just save to filesystem?
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2021-05-17 05:03:45	jbg	depends what you're using redis for
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2021-05-17 05:05:02	Bish	just as a store for structs
2021-05-17 05:05:07	Bish	uuid ⇒ myOwnSimpleStruct
2021-05-17 05:05:14	j`ey	HashMap?
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2021-05-17 05:11:14	Bish	and how do i achieve persistence?
2021-05-17 05:11:50	j`ey	serialise the hashmap
2021-05-17 05:11:58	jbg	if you want a persistent key-value store, a persistent key-value store like redis is quite possibly a good choice
2021-05-17 05:12:42	Bish	j`ey: and what if i have a powerloss on write?
2021-05-17 05:12:58	Bish	jbg: yeah i figured, but isn't the network stuff, even on stack, overhead?
2021-05-17 05:13:06	j`ey	youre screwed
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2021-05-17 05:13:33	jbg	sure, maybe. have you determined that this overhead matters in your application?
2021-05-17 05:13:39	jbg	you could look at sled, it's pretty cool
2021-05-17 05:14:01	Bish	jbg: no, but i went to rust because i want peak performance
2021-05-17 05:14:28	Bish	(with reasonable development speed)
2021-05-17 05:14:37	jbg	okay, well, if you're just having fun optimising stuff that you may or may not need to optimise, then I've found sled to be pretty fun
2021-05-17 05:15:26	j`ey	but you should measure first, so you can see if sled is actually better :P
2021-05-17 05:15:28	Bish	thanks, exactly what i searched for
2021-05-17 05:15:34	jbg	but if development time matters at all and you already have a working solution with redis, you might want to verify that performance isn't meeting your needs before you spend time replacing redis
2021-05-17 05:15:38	Bish	sled is kv, only, too??
2021-05-17 05:15:59	Bish	jbg: yeah it was more a, out of curiousity , so i can try it out next time
2021-05-17 05:16:10	Bish	i think the redis thing will still be the fastest webapi i ever wrote
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2021-05-17 05:17:57	Bish	man sled looks cool if you're a masochist and want speed
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2021-05-17 05:18:37	medwards	Hey I have a workspace dependency and would like to import a struct from the 'main' workspace but it fails to resolve. Is this normally possible?
2021-05-17 05:18:54	medwards	Do I add the main workpsace as a dependency of the dependency (and isn't that circular?)
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2021-05-17 05:25:07	j`ey	yeah, dependencies have to be explicit. if the circular dep doesnt work for whatever reason, i guess you could make a 3rd crate
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2021-05-17 05:36:58	Bish	DateTime<Utc> serializes to a string? that's odd, isn't it
2021-05-17 05:37:57	Bish	i mean when used with bincode.. but i guess that's because serde also does json?
2021-05-17 05:38:12	j`ey	with bincode it should just be a binary blob
2021-05-17 05:38:26	Bish	30, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 50, 48, 50, 49, 45, 48, 53, 45, 49, 55, 84, 48, 57, 58, 51, 53, 58, 53, 56, 46, 52, 57, 53, 54, 56, 51, 48, 49, 54, 90
2021-05-17 05:38:36	Bish	which is kinda big & a string :(
2021-05-17 05:38:55	jbg	it serialises to whatever chrono's serialise impl chooses to serialise it as
2021-05-17 05:39:01	jbg	and I don't think that can differ depending on the output format?
2021-05-17 05:39:10	Bish	yeah which i dislike :(
2021-05-17 05:39:20	jbg	sure, but nobody is forcing you to use the default serialise impl
2021-05-17 05:39:25	Bish	i just realized that and hoped someone would tell me, "no, no, you're doing it wrong"
2021-05-17 05:39:27	jbg	you can serialise it as anything you like
2021-05-17 05:39:50	Bish	by making my own struct that implements it differently?
2021-05-17 05:40:12	jbg	well, if you want just something like timestamp in seconds/millis/micros you could use one of these https://docs.rs/chrono/0.4.19/chrono/serde/index.html
2021-05-17 05:40:28	jbg	if you want something else, just write a fn to map it and use serde's `with`
2021-05-17 05:40:42	Bish	wait, how would i use these
2021-05-17 05:41:13	j`ey	https://serde.rs/field-attrs.html#serialize_with
2021-05-17 05:41:33	jbg	you're not a big fan of reading docs, are you? :P
2021-05-17 05:41:39	Bish	:o that's crazy
2021-05-17 05:41:43	jbg	there is literally a link to the serde `with` attribute right there on the page
2021-05-17 05:41:52	Bish	well, if this thing didn't exist, i'd read the whole doucmentation just to be sad
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2021-05-17 05:42:14	j`ey	yeah but if someone links you to the docs, you could look then :P
2021-05-17 05:42:43	Bish	yeah "wait how do i use these" was kinda rhetorical for " i ahve to try this this is crazy!"
2021-05-17 05:42:48	Bish	sorry :p
2021-05-17 05:42:56	j`ey	i suppose there was no '?' :P
2021-05-17 05:43:19	Bish	but how is a question word!
2021-05-17 05:43:43	j`ey	mixed signals!
2021-05-17 05:44:03	Bish	mixed signals!?
2021-05-17 05:44:07	j`ey	but anyway, that serde with is very cool, I had seen it before, but only know kina appreciate how cool it is
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2021-05-17 05:48:26	Bish	man that's fukin wild
2021-05-17 05:48:56	Bish	that this works, i'd go as far as calling this metaprogramming
2021-05-17 05:48:58	Bish	or is that a stretch?
2021-05-17 05:49:43	j`ey	I guess? serde takes your structs as input and outputs code
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2021-05-17 05:59:59	Bish	now that's a dateformat H>\xA2`\u0000\u0000\u0000\u0000
2021-05-17 06:00:06	Bish	wondering what the zeroes mean, tho
2021-05-17 06:00:10	Bish	maybe tz
2021-05-17 06:05:35	osa1	too lazy to test; can a TokenStream (proc macro input) have unbalanced brackets/parens/braces/etc.?
2021-05-17 06:10:40	heftig[m]	osa1: I think they must be balanced
2021-05-17 06:10:59	heftig[m]	the only way to express brackets/etc is TokenTree::Group which is balanced
2021-05-17 06:12:32	heftig[m]	(they would have to be balanced in the case of the outermost delimiters anyway, or Rust could not tell where the macro ends)
2021-05-17 06:13:42	jbg	Bish: the zeroes mean that you are not getting too close to the end of time yet
2021-05-17 06:15:52	jbg	(assuming you used one of the tz_ modules with `with`)
2021-05-17 06:16:33	osa1	heftig[m]: makes sense, thanks
2021-05-17 06:18:32	Bish	jbg: but why 12 bytes :o
2021-05-17 06:18:55	Bish	or 11, assuming my other field needs 1
2021-05-17 06:19:13	jbg	what data type is your other field?
2021-05-17 06:19:25	Bish	an enum with repr(u8)
2021-05-17 06:19:43	jbg	here are only 8 bytes in what you pasted above though? presumably a u64?
2021-05-17 06:19:47	jbg	or i64
2021-05-17 06:19:51	jbg	which would be quite normal for a timestamp
2021-05-17 06:20:03	Bish	*tests*
2021-05-17 06:20:16	jbg	H, >, \xA2, `, and four zero bytes
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2021-05-17 06:21:07	Bish	yeah it makes 8 bytes out of my struct
2021-05-17 06:21:16	Bish	for some reason, im sure i can specify that for serde, right :D?
2021-05-17 06:21:24	Bish	4 bytes*
2021-05-17 06:21:51	jbg	you can serialise stuff however you want, you just may need to write the impls yourself rather than deriving them or using provided ones
2021-05-17 06:22:11	jbg	the serde documentation is very good *hint*
2021-05-17 06:23:18	jbg	I don't think repr(u8) has any effect on how serde serialises your enum btw
2021-05-17 06:23:54	jbg	if you want serde to delegate to the underlying repr rather than using its normal enum serialisation, you can use the serde_repr crate for that
2021-05-17 06:24:05	Bish	thanks :)
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2021-05-17 06:49:43	j`ey	error[E0013]: constants cannot refer to statics, D:
2021-05-17 06:49:48	j`ey	not even for an address
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2021-05-17 07:10:04	w0x12ef	is nightly version unstable ?
2021-05-17 07:10:21	w0x12ef	and not recommended
2021-05-17 07:10:32	oherrala	unstable yes, but I'd recommend testing with it
2021-05-17 07:10:45	j`ey	it's mostly stable in terms of crashes and stuff
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2021-05-17 07:23:54	jbg	unstable in the sense that code that works today might not work tomorrow, but not usually unstable in the sense that the compiler crashes a lot or produces bad programs
2021-05-17 07:26:00	avu	I really don't like how the word "stable" is overloaded like this. Often leads to confusion for example with Linux distributions like Debian
2021-05-17 07:26:29	jbg	yeah, it's the same outside of tech though
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2021-05-17 07:34:51	trevarj	mentally stable can technically mean always insane?
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2021-05-17 08:08:22	trevarj	j`ey i messed around with the per-package-target (having different targets in a workspace) and ran into another problem. it's missing a way to specify a custom runner to run the per-target binaries
2021-05-17 08:09:08	j`ey	i thought runners were per target?
2021-05-17 08:09:28	j`ey	you want a runner per-package?
2021-05-17 08:10:02	trevarj	they are, but when you have the workspace and do something like "cargo test" it doesn't know which runner to use
2021-05-17 08:10:11	trevarj	yeah runner per-package
2021-05-17 08:10:11	j`ey	oh
2021-05-17 08:10:32	 *	j`ey writes some rust
2021-05-17 08:11:57	trevarj	i wish they used a solution that simply took .cargo/config into consideration for each package/workspace member
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2021-05-17 08:12:41	Bish	if i had a warp filter that is already "terminated" with "and_then" how would i add a path to it? i can't right?
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2021-05-17 08:40:31	jbg	can't you put a .cargo/config inside the package?
2021-05-17 08:40:55	j`ey	I think only the main workspace's .cargo/config.toml is taken into account
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2021-05-17 08:42:17	jbg	the cargo book says that it searches up from the dir cargo is invoked in
2021-05-17 08:42:26	jbg	which in the context of a workspace is kinda weird (and maybe it's not actually correct)
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2021-05-17 08:50:48	trevarj	yeah what j`ey said
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2021-05-17 08:52:29	trevarj	the feature was to force a target on a workspace member. works well, but not for when you have separate runners per target. maybe i missed something though
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2021-05-17 09:08:11	la_mettrie	what does it mean when _the type of parameter_ (and not just parameter variable name) has a mut and/or ref...??   for example: fn my_function(&mut my_object: &mut MyType)
2021-05-17 09:08:58	Mutabah	`&mut T` is a mutable/unique pointer to some type
2021-05-17 09:09:24	la_mettrie	why it is needed?
2021-05-17 09:09:27	Mutabah	Also - parameter "names" are actually patterns - which are effectively the opposite of expressions
2021-05-17 09:09:45	Mutabah	`fn my_function(my_object: &mut MyType)` is what you'd normally do
2021-05-17 09:10:29	la_mettrie	i'd like to understand why sometimes both name & type have &mut
2021-05-17 09:10:50	Mutabah	With the exception of `self`, names shouldn't have `&`
2021-05-17 09:11:21	Mutabah	(`self` is a little special, because it's actually often a shorthand)
2021-05-17 09:11:47	Mutabah	(`fn foo(&self)` is actually a shorter version of `fn foo(self: &Self)`)
2021-05-17 09:13:35	la_mettrie	if the type has &mut, does it imply that parameter name needs "mut"?
2021-05-17 09:13:48	Mutabah	No
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2021-05-17 09:25:41	w0x12ef	what is the diff between self and Self
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2021-05-17 09:26:05	nerosnm	@la_mettrie your original example `fn my_function(&mut my_object: &mut MyType)` is not actually valid, the closest valid thing would be `fn my_function(mut my_object: &mut MyType)`
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2021-05-17 09:26:44	trevarj	w0x12ef self is the actual struct/object and Self is the type
2021-05-17 09:26:51	la_mettrie	yeah, it seems i've got badly lost, probably forgotten some essential things. now re-studying...
2021-05-17 09:26:56	nerosnm	@w0x12ef `Self` is a type, which refers to whatever the type is that the current `impl` block is for, but `self` is a parameter of type `Self`
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2021-05-17 09:27:32	nerosnm	@w0x12ef looks like you left for a moment, did you see my reply?
2021-05-17 09:27:36	Mutabah	`self` is a parameter that indicates the receiver of a method
2021-05-17 09:28:11	Mutabah	I.e. `fn foo(&self)` (`fn foo(self: &Self)`) takes `self` by shared/immutable borrow
2021-05-17 09:28:21	w0x12ef	nerosnm, got offline
2021-05-17 09:28:45	nerosnm	@w0x12ef: what I said was: `Self` is a type, which refers to whatever the type is that the current `impl` block is for, but `self` is a parameter of type `Self`
2021-05-17 09:29:08	w0x12ef	isa
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2021-05-17 09:29:27	w0x12ef	self is instance of Self
2021-05-17 09:29:36	w0x12ef	self is a instance of Self
2021-05-17 09:30:15	w0x12ef	I think I  understand it
2021-05-17 09:30:16	Mutabah	It can be
2021-05-17 09:30:31	Mutabah	It's either an instance of `Self` or a pointer to it
2021-05-17 09:31:58	nerosnm	`self` is an instance of `Self`, `&self` is a shared reference to an instance of `Self` (i.e. a `&Self`), `&mut self` is a mutable reference to an instance of `Self` (i.e. a `&mut Self`), etc.
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2021-05-17 09:42:16	Bish	uhm, if i change the value which i am "matching" right now will it hit other cases?
2021-05-17 09:42:32	j`ey	no
2021-05-17 09:42:44	j`ey	if you mean match foo { blah => change foo somehow, blip => }
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2021-05-17 09:42:51	Bish	yes
2021-05-17 09:43:24	Bish	match x { 3 => x = 2;, 2 => 4; } no clue if that syntax makes sense tho öD
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2021-05-17 09:53:15	wizzwizz4	Bish: You don't need (and can't have) the semicolon.
2021-05-17 09:53:27	wizzwizz4	Remember: in Rust, (almost) everything is an expression.
2021-05-17 09:53:44	bertptrs	unless your x is copy, this will borrow x for the duration of the match so you can't mutate it
2021-05-17 09:58:43	Bish	wizzwizz4: i figured the return value of the sub-expression inside the match has to be ()
2021-05-17 09:58:51	Bish	i haven't actually tried it
2021-05-17 09:59:18	j`ey	Bish: it doesnt
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2021-05-17 10:23:08	jbg	Bish: the match arms just have to have the same type
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2021-05-17 10:24:16	jbg	match itself is also an expression, let foo = match opt { Some(foo) => foo, None => 0 }; is perfectly fine if e.g. opt is an Option<i32>
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2021-05-17 10:41:16	sensille	is that bad style? https://pastebin.com/sEUGEHJ5
2021-05-17 10:47:54	jbg	I would probably assign the result of match to a variable to avoid the } { on line 19
2021-05-17 10:49:16	sensille	ah yes, that looks a bit clearer
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2021-05-17 11:05:31	Bish	.oO( would cargo fmt remove those things ) ?
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2021-05-17 11:11:58	daemon	hey all is there an alternative rust channel on another network anywhere?
2021-05-17 11:12:36	metreo	there are a couple good matrix channels?
2021-05-17 11:12:48	j`ey	there was one on oftc.. dunno if it's still active
2021-05-17 11:12:52	metreo	no
2021-05-17 11:13:05	metreo	the debian rust team meet there but it's low traffic
2021-05-17 11:13:05	daemon	hmmm wonder if there is one on efnet
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2021-05-17 11:13:26	metreo	what's elfnet?
2021-05-17 11:13:27	daemon	well I was just curious where everyone here would head if something unpleasant happened to freenode making it unreachable
2021-05-17 11:13:48	daemon	efnet is an old cranky IRC network that should have been put out of its misery years ago but still lurks on :)
2021-05-17 11:14:14	daemon	a lot of opensource projects have a home there or had one before moving here
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2021-05-17 11:14:53	metreo	yeah participants in a room is a pretty good indication about the health of a project
2021-05-17 11:15:56	daemon	indeed
2021-05-17 11:17:03	trevarj	the rust discords are overwhelming
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2021-05-17 11:20:21	daemon	wonder if OFTC is still a decent place
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2021-05-17 11:34:45	Polochon_street	does docs.rs try to build crates themselves? I get a failing build because apparently it tries to run custom build scripts (https://docs.rs/crate/bliss-rs/0.1.1/builds/389401), but I thought docs would just do `cargo doc`?
2021-05-17 11:35:11	j`ey	i guess that cargo doc might run build scripts too?
2021-05-17 11:39:24	jbg	Bish: remove what things? it just formats your code, it doesn't do things like extract expressions to variables for you
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2021-05-17 11:50:16	Polochon_street	hm, my doc build is working with `--offline`. I'm wondering, do builds in doc.rs also use default features of Cargo.toml? This https://docs.rs/about/metadata says "features: default = []", so not sure
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2021-05-17 11:50:54	Polochon_street	and not sure whether adding `[package.metadata.docs.rs] features = []` will override this
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2021-05-17 12:11:29	wizzwizz4	Polochon_street: docs.rs has started doing odd things with features lately; on some crates, it shows all the things from all the features.
2021-05-17 12:11:37	wizzwizz4	I'd recommend just using `cfg(doc)`.
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2021-05-17 12:14:48	wizzwizz4	Polochon_street: See https://github.com/asomers/mockall/commit/356f96886ecd87232678d4baaea7df949bdfca08 for an example migration from `[package.metadata.docs.rs]` to `#[cfg(doc)]`.
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2021-05-17 12:27:13	wizzwizz4	Polochon_street: You'd need default_features = false to do it your way, anyway (I think).
2021-05-17 12:28:03	Polochon_street	yeah, I've changed that and added the rustdoc feature, and it worked! https://docs.rs/bliss-rs/0.1.2/bliss_rs/
2021-05-17 12:29:34	Polochon_street	> https://rust-lang.github.io/api-guidelines/naming.html#c-case - > Crate names should not use -rs or -rust as a suffix or prefix. Every crate is Rust! It serves no purpose to remind users of this constantly.
2021-05-17 12:29:38	Polochon_street	oops
2021-05-17 12:29:49	Polochon_street	does this also apply to Rust ports of other programs though?
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2021-05-17 12:34:36	jbg	I mean, the namespace of crates is entirely made up of things written in rust, so it would be the same for a rust port of a program from another language
2021-05-17 12:34:56	jbg	I shudder a little every time I type `use rust_decimal::Decimal`
2021-05-17 12:35:18	jbg	by all means put -rs or -rust or whatever on your git repo name if you want, etc, but there is no reason to have it in the crate name
2021-05-17 12:35:40	Polochon_street	true. tbh, it's also because the name without -rs was taken :D
2021-05-17 12:36:50	Polochon_street	on another note, I have a struct Song made out of song's title / artist / album etc, it's legit to not implement the Display trait, and only derive Debug there, right?
2021-05-17 12:37:18	j`ey	are the fields pub / have getters?
2021-05-17 12:37:25	Polochon_street	they are all pub
2021-05-17 12:37:49	j`ey	then someone can just write their own formatter/wrapper for it, if they wanted
2021-05-17 12:37:57	j`ey	idk if there's a good canoical 'Display' for that
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2021-05-17 12:38:47	Polochon_street	that's what I thought, thanks :)
2021-05-17 12:39:02	Polochon_street	https://rust-lang.github.io/api-guidelines/interoperability.html#data-structures-implement-serdes-serialize-deserialize-c-serde damn, Serde is that big that it has its own part here?
2021-05-17 12:39:29	j`ey	yup!
2021-05-17 12:39:40	j`ey	it's the defacto std
2021-05-17 12:40:17	Polochon_street	hm, I have a Vec<f32> here, not sure derive is going to like that
2021-05-17 12:40:21	Polochon_street	let's try it
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2021-05-17 12:53:04	Polochon_street	hm, if I have a `song::Song` struct, is there a way to "export it" so that users of my library just have to do `my_crate::Song` instead of `my_crate::song::Song`?
2021-05-17 12:53:15	j`ey	yes, inside your toplevel lib.rs
2021-05-17 12:53:20	j`ey	use song::Song;
2021-05-17 12:53:32	Polochon_street	oh, okay, that simple. My bad :D
2021-05-17 12:55:17	j`ey	pub use.. actually
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2021-05-17 13:14:03	Bish	jbg: pointless braces
2021-05-17 13:14:07	Bish	could be removed
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2021-05-17 13:15:24	Polochon_street	j`ey: worked, thanks :)
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2021-05-17 13:17:43	vasilakisfil	when I have a big enum with each variant having a struct, is there a macro that I can use to call a method on all those inner structs ? I just want to use the to_string that all inner structs support
2021-05-17 13:17:57	vasilakisfil	I remember that there was an addition in a recent rust version for that but can't find it anywhere
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2021-05-17 13:22:23	trevarj	vasilakisfil if you want just a to_string() you can just derive ToString and on the enum
2021-05-17 13:25:24	wizzwizz4	trevarj: Does that work for all traits?
2021-05-17 13:25:54	AstrallyForged	.hg There's no derive for ToString
2021-05-17 13:26:27	vasilakisfil	yeah I don't think there is a derive for ToString
2021-05-17 13:26:56	j`ey	I forgot, can you align a static?
2021-05-17 13:26:57	Arnavion	Also you wouldn't manually impl it either. You'd impl Display
2021-05-17 13:27:07	j`ey	or should I create a wrapper with #[repr(align..
2021-05-17 13:27:40	vasilakisfil	yeah, basically I have implemented the Display on all inner variant structs and want an easy way to reuse these through a macro on my big enum cause I am a bit lazy
2021-05-17 13:28:50	Arnavion	There isn't any way besides writing a macro that has access to the enum definition. macro_rules or custom derive
2021-05-17 13:29:08	Arnavion	Specifically for Display there's a crate that adds #[derive(Display)]
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2021-05-17 13:29:33	Arnavion	https://docs.rs/derive_more/
2021-05-17 13:30:51	vasilakisfil	right yeah makes sense that there isn't a way without having access to the enum definition
2021-05-17 13:31:06	vasilakisfil	hmm ok I ll write it manually now but will come back to it at some point, thanks!
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2021-05-17 13:41:10	wizzwizz4	I tried making a macro to derive traits for enums where it's implemented on all members, but I didn't succeed. Is there an elegant way to do this?
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2021-05-17 13:45:01	bertptrs	I imagine a suficiently smart proc macro could do it, but it's annoying
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2021-05-17 13:49:43	GreenJello	I'm working on something currently that'll allow writing quick proc macros inline with JS
2021-05-17 13:50:09	GreenJello	not that I expect rust people to want to write JS
2021-05-17 13:50:27	bertptrs	I was about to joke that I come here to avoid writing JS :P
2021-05-17 13:53:31	 *	ComCat eats GreenJello 
2021-05-17 13:53:39	ComCat	JS yourself out of that.
2021-05-17 13:53:46	ComCat	How's that for a JS joke?
2021-05-17 13:54:44	bertptrs	A unique one, that's for sure
2021-05-17 13:59:32	ComCat	That's a diplomatic way of putting it.
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2021-05-17 14:56:49	davros	 wondering if i should scratch some itches for procedural macros.
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2021-05-17 15:32:31	davros	is there such a thing as an iterator that moves its items out (i tried ".drain()", doesn't seem to be that)
2021-05-17 15:32:54	davros	(or at least it doesn't seem to be available whre i tried it
2021-05-17 15:34:19	davros	ah it is there, only for vec
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2021-05-17 15:40:22	Freylint[m]	Are there any good ways to generate the .pot file for a crate?
2021-05-17 15:41:04	Freylint[m]	.pot files referring to gettext .pot files
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2021-05-17 16:38:07	Polochon_street	hi! I'm following the API guide to rehash a bit my API, and I've stumbled upon https://rust-lang.github.io/api-guidelines/flexibility.html#functions-minimize-assumptions-about-parameters-by-using-generics-c-generic - I have a function that takes a Vec<String> as path inputs (and I need it to actually be a Vec, since I need to know its length, split it up, etc). Do you think I should still make it
2021-05-17 16:38:13	Polochon_street	an IntoIterator instead of a Vec<String>, and then transforming it manually into my function?
2021-05-17 16:38:34	Arnavion	wizzwizz4: The macro will need to know both the trait definition and the enum definition, so it can't be a custom derive. It would need to be applied to multiple items or a mod
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2021-05-17 16:39:25	Arnavion	Polochon_street: If you need a Vec then take a Vec. If the user has an iterator they can collect it into a Vec
2021-05-17 16:40:19	Polochon_street	hm, but isn't it the opposite of what the guideline says? Or that's where guidelines and real-case scenarii collide?
2021-05-17 16:40:37	Arnavion	Polochon_street: Hypothetically by taking a Vec you're allowing the user to give you their Vec rather than do .into_iter() only for you to .collect() it, because the latter might require unnecessary copying. Now it so happens that for vec.into_iter().collect::<Vec<_>>() there is specialization to prevent copying, but it's true in general
2021-05-17 16:41:03	Polochon_street	okay, makes sense. Thanks :)
2021-05-17 16:41:05	Arnavion	Polochon_street: The guideline is saying to use an IntoIterator if you need an iterator and don't need a Vec. You said you need a Vec
2021-05-17 16:41:18	Polochon_street	> if the function only needs to iterate over the data.
2021-05-17 16:41:19	Arnavion	>Prefer [...] if the function only needs to iterate over the data.
2021-05-17 16:41:21	Polochon_street	true. thanks :)
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2021-05-17 16:50:41	Polochon_street	most of my lib's input is file path, right now I'm using `String / &str`. Is it preferred to use PathBuf / Path for that, or would that be superfluous?
2021-05-17 16:50:49	Polochon_street	(looking at https://rust-lang.github.io/api-guidelines/dependability.html#static-enforcement)
2021-05-17 16:51:08	Arnavion	Path and PathBuf are correct. OSes don't require utf-8 paths
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2021-05-17 16:52:30	Polochon_street	just wondering whether replacing all my String path's by PathBufs would yield a real benefit. That would require quite some changes, so I'd rather avoid it if I can
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2021-05-17 16:52:56	Polochon_street	but at the same time, don't want to be that guy that uses Strings while everyone else uses PathBufs :D
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2021-05-17 16:56:03	lhx	PathBufs/Paths drive me nuts
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2021-05-17 17:10:19	neshpion	i'm trying to write an imgur uploader which will automatically log the datetime, url, and delete hash.  i used to have this working when it was *just* uplaoding to imgur and not writing to a logfile, because then main() just returned reqwest::Result instead of std::result::Result.  but now that i've added logging stuff, i can't figure out how to get the return type to play nice with the different
2021-05-17 17:10:20	neshpion	types of Errors that the ? operators are liable to throw.  here is the code https://termbin.com/v0aq and the errors https://termbin.com/8v5c
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2021-05-17 17:11:56	GreenJello	you could use anyhow::Result<()>, or Result<(), Box<dyn Error + Send>> might work
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2021-05-17 17:12:30	GreenJello	where dyn Error is dyn std::error::Error
2021-05-17 17:12:53	neshpion	ill try the box one.  i had tried Box<dyn ToString> before but it didn't like that
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2021-05-17 17:16:14	neshpion	even with Box<dyn std::error::Error> i still get the same 6 error messages, except instead of saying "Trait From<thing> is not implemented for std::string::String" it gives me that same error except "not implemented for Box<dyn StdError + Send>"
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2021-05-17 17:26:03	neshpion	i tried using anyhow but the crate won't compile because for some reason rust is not finding addr_of! in core::ptr even though it exists ._.
2021-05-17 17:26:38	neshpion	ill try updating
2021-05-17 17:28:23	GreenJello	addr_of was added recently
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2021-05-17 17:31:49	neshpion	ok it was available after updating
2021-05-17 17:32:34	neshpion	i just had to change my call to env::var_os() into env::var() and now everything works
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2021-05-17 18:15:47	wizzwizz4	How do I distinguish between «takes &mut, returns data» and «takes &mut and "locks" it until return value is dropped» in a signature?
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2021-05-17 18:19:46	GreenJello	in the latter you'd have (&'a mut self) -> SomeStruct<'a> {
2021-05-17 18:20:52	GreenJello	presumably you want to allow using the struct while holding the data in the former, so the return value wouldn't have a lifetime or it'd be independent of self
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2021-05-17 18:25:26	Bish	will rust have dynamic link support some day?
2021-05-17 18:26:47	neshpion	doubtful, i got the impression that dynamic linking was against the rust creators' vision for the language or something
2021-05-17 18:26:56	neshpion	but maybe someone else who actually knows things can comment
2021-05-17 18:27:03	Arnavion	It has dynamic linking support already
2021-05-17 18:27:16	 *	neshpion hides
2021-05-17 18:27:19	Bish	yeah but only c style, right?
2021-05-17 18:27:31	Arnavion	No
2021-05-17 18:27:36	Bish	how would that look?
2021-05-17 18:27:38	Arnavion	cdylibs have C ABI. dylibs have Rust ABI
2021-05-17 18:27:54	Arnavion	And just like C++, the Rust ABI only works when both sides of the linkage have been compiled with the same compiler, etc
2021-05-17 18:27:58	Arnavion	otherwise explosions happen
2021-05-17 18:28:36	Arnavion	Google even put out a blog post recently about how their Rust code in Android will compile every crate as a dylib, because they have the control to ensure that everything's compiled with the same compiler, there's only one version of every dep, etc
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2021-05-17 18:28:57	Arnavion	so dylibs give them space-savings vs every binary linking the same crates statically
2021-05-17 18:29:29	Bish	why is the "only one version of every dep" part important?
2021-05-17 18:29:30	Arnavion	Even you yourself have used dylibs when you use any proc macros - proc macros are dylibs loaded by rustc
2021-05-17 18:29:38	Bish	i mean don't we have the problem with regular c-dyllibs aswell?
2021-05-17 18:30:01	Arnavion	It was an example of the level of control they have
2021-05-17 18:30:19	Bish	got it
2021-05-17 18:30:58	Arnavion	They don't have a problem of bin A linking lib L v1.0.1, bin B linking lib L v1.0.2, etc. So they enforce all of them link to the same lib L version, and then there's only one dylib of lib L on the filesystem
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2021-05-17 18:32:23	 *	Bish wonders how everyone and everything links against the same openssl on his system
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2021-05-17 18:32:52	Arnavion	Because openssl's ABI is C
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2021-05-17 18:33:44	Bish	and why does my system not break
2021-05-17 18:33:48	Bish	when i update that library?
2021-05-17 18:34:01	Bish	always wondered
2021-05-17 18:34:03	Arnavion	Because the C ABI is well-defined by your particular operating system
2021-05-17 18:34:32	Arnavion	Which registers to use for function parameters and returns, etc is determined by the ABI
2021-05-17 18:34:49	Bish	but if openssl where about to remove a function everyone (and their mothers too) called, it would break?
2021-05-17 18:35:03	Arnavion	Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with the kind of ABI. That's just version compatibility
2021-05-17 18:35:15	j`ey	API vs ABI
2021-05-17 18:35:15	Arnavion	openssl 1.1.1b is not going to remove a public API used by 1.1.1a
2021-05-17 18:35:24	 *	Bish wonders, what they actually update when update
2021-05-17 18:35:35	Arnavion	So any program that links to 1.1.1a will continue working with 1.1.1b
2021-05-17 18:35:43	Bish	but static linking will keep being the default for rust?
2021-05-17 18:35:47	Arnavion	The implementations of the functions, new functions, etc
2021-05-17 18:36:03	Arnavion	Probably
2021-05-17 18:36:34	 *	Bish has to get some sleep
2021-05-17 18:36:38	Bish	thanks for the help, as usual
2021-05-17 18:36:40	Arnavion	It's one line in the Cargo.toml to make a dylib instead. The problem isn't so much compiling your code as a dylib as it's having a reason to do so
2021-05-17 18:36:50	Bish	<3 rust
2021-05-17 18:36:55	Arnavion	DCE, LTO etc all go out the window when you compile dylibs
2021-05-17 18:37:09	j`ey	Arnavion: you have to change the cargo.toml of a dep itself right?
2021-05-17 18:37:11	Bish	and those things are good i suppose
2021-05-17 18:37:23	Arnavion	So unless you have multiple binaries that'll actually benefit for sharing (like the Android example), a single binary will be larger in dylib form than in rlib form
2021-05-17 18:37:28	j`ey	you can depend on something and say you want to dyn link it?
2021-05-17 18:37:29	Bish	what does dce stand for?
2021-05-17 18:37:36	j`ey	dead code elimination
2021-05-17 18:37:37	Arnavion	Dead code elimination
2021-05-17 18:37:40	davros	would it have been possible to make a set of int traits for safe upcasting
2021-05-17 18:37:50	Arnavion	j`ey: I was talking about when you have control of the entire dep graph, but yes
2021-05-17 18:37:50	j`ey	From?
2021-05-17 18:38:15	j`ey	Arnavion: right, I was talking about the case when you dont have complete control!
2021-05-17 18:38:25	davros	actually would 'from' do that eg   From<u16> (impl'd for u16,i32,u32,u64,i64, usize,isize)
2021-05-17 18:38:25	Bish	in another channel someone talked about static linking would be a security issue
2021-05-17 18:38:51	Bish	so if rustls has a crtitical security issue, my bin won't get updated, atleasst as long as my dependency doesn't updat eit
2021-05-17 18:39:00	Bish	what about taht problem, isn't that real?
2021-05-17 18:39:02	Arnavion	Yes, because say openssl has a CVE. In a dynamically-linked distro you just update the openssl .so and everything benefits
2021-05-17 18:39:19	Arnavion	With static linking, every package that statically linked openssl needs to push out its own update
2021-05-17 18:39:40	Bish	and even that is only possible if the dependencies update their versions, too
2021-05-17 18:39:43	Arnavion	And yes, rustls would have the same problem
2021-05-17 18:39:57	j`ey	davros: From yep
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2021-05-17 18:40:08	Bish	imagine you use a crate, which uses an old version of rustls
2021-05-17 18:40:12	Bish	that'd be a bummer, right?
2021-05-17 18:40:15	Arnavion	Yes
2021-05-17 18:40:18	Bish	if that isn't maintained anymore
2021-05-17 18:41:03	Bish	wekp
2021-05-17 18:41:04	Bish	welp
2021-05-17 18:41:06	Bish	good night!
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2021-05-17 19:26:40	davros	does Path::from(&str) work .. doesn't seem to
2021-05-17 19:28:49	GreenJello	Path::new(s)
2021-05-17 19:28:58	GreenJello	not sure if there's also a From impl
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2021-05-17 19:30:18	GreenJello	seems not, only PathBuf has From impls for str and String
2021-05-17 19:30:56	davros	is there a philosophicla reason one might prefer new(str) over from(str) (to my mind 'from()' things are intuive for 'constructing a type from a single input')
2021-05-17 19:31:18	davros	i like the default() and from() conventions, those make sense
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2021-05-17 19:32:45	GreenJello	I'm not sure if you'd be able to return &Path in a From impl, but it'd be awkward even if you could
2021-05-17 19:34:01	GreenJello	Path is like str in that it's unsized, so you only normally deal in references to it
2021-05-17 19:35:19	Arnavion	Yes, you can't do it with From. It'd need to be From<'a> with fn from(&'a) -> &'a Self, ie what AsRef is, and why Path does impl AsRef<str>
2021-05-17 19:35:59	Arnavion	err, why str does impl AsRef<Path> *
2021-05-17 19:36:59	davros	oh ok Path is a wrapper around a "OsStr", coming from c functions?
2021-05-17 19:37:09	davros	not an abstract path manipulation utility class
2021-05-17 19:37:14	davros	*type^^
2021-05-17 19:37:22	Arnavion	Yes, but OsStr is not directly what C functions use
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2021-05-17 19:37:45	Arnavion	Specifically, on Linux it is. On Windows it isn't
2021-05-17 19:38:25	davros	ok thats making sense now
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2021-05-17 20:01:22	davros	i just need to vent a little bit of frustration over yet again having to jupm through hoops over usize indices. i wish the rust people actually listened to this back in 2014
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2021-05-17 20:01:37	davros	unecaserily hostile
2021-05-17 20:02:13	davros	"how do we keep C++ programmers from migrating? ah lets make them jump through hoops every time they want to use a 32bit index in 64bit mode!"
2021-05-17 20:02:39	davros	sure you need it when its a downcast but not an upcast
2021-05-17 20:03:39	davros	i'm so frustrated by this because i remember well the "you're wrong for wanting this" attitude i was presented with
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2021-05-17 20:12:08	GreenJello	"C++ allows it" isn't a very compelling argument on its own
2021-05-17 20:13:03	lhx	lol
2021-05-17 20:13:09	GreenJello	but I haven't read this discussion, and that was before I started using Rust
2021-05-17 20:13:36	davros	it shouldn't be hard to use 32bit indices in 64bits.
2021-05-17 20:13:47	danieldg	yeah, arguing that it would better allow vectorizers to use instructions like VGATHERDPD is better than arguing that C++ lets you do it
2021-05-17 20:14:07	davros	i shouldn't even have to though
2021-05-17 20:14:21	davros	what if back in 2014 that instruction hadn't been invented
2021-05-17 20:14:41	davros	but its obvious fromthe logical scenario that the potential exists
2021-05-17 20:14:42	danieldg	no, there are good reasons to only want indexing to work with indexing-sized integers
2021-05-17 20:15:06	davros	stop making excuses
2021-05-17 20:15:16	davros	it should be easy to customize the index type
2021-05-17 20:15:18	danieldg	but I think the issue is that there are *also* reasons to allow u32 indexing
2021-05-17 20:15:37	davros	theres good reasons for the default to be 64bit sure
2021-05-17 20:15:57	danieldg	but if those reasons weren't presented I don't think it would be good to just add indexing by any integer, for example
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2021-05-17 20:16:24	danieldg	you can always implement Index yourself, after all
2021-05-17 20:16:42	davros	AAAAAannd then i have to make my code diverge from everyone elses inthe ecosystem
2021-05-17 20:16:48	davros	just to get this one basic thing.
2021-05-17 20:17:04	davros	i put my pride asside to learn someone elses stdlib
2021-05-17 20:17:18	danieldg	that requires putting pride aside?
2021-05-17 20:17:21	davros	yes
2021-05-17 20:17:24	danieldg	news to me
2021-05-17 20:17:36	davros	"here's things i could do before your language was invented"
2021-05-17 20:17:47	davros	"now i have to learn your names and conventions for them"
2021-05-17 20:17:54	davros	that takes putting pride asside, yes
2021-05-17 20:17:56	davros	big time
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2021-05-17 20:18:10	danieldg	you must hate learning new languages
2021-05-17 20:18:29	danieldg	both human and computer
2021-05-17 20:18:40	danieldg	all those new things you already have good words for
2021-05-17 20:19:12	davros	human is different because the things evolved in parallel
2021-05-17 20:19:29	davros	switching to someone elses language for things you already did before it existed is different
2021-05-17 20:20:07	davros	i've worked on projects where
2021-05-17 20:20:21	davros	little thigns taht you think wont have to be optimized ,end up beign optimsed
2021-05-17 20:20:35	davros	all those little ints padding out headers had to be bit reduced and packed
2021-05-17 20:20:39	davros	slot them into a cacheline
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2021-05-17 20:20:48	w0x12ef	does rust pass param by reference ?
2021-05-17 20:20:51	davros	as such my learned instinct is " a reasonable middle ground" for type sizes
2021-05-17 20:21:10	davros	32bits, then you may need to shirnk (for further opt) or extend (if out of range)
2021-05-17 20:21:41	davros	64bit everthing is not a default that makes sense in my domain.
2021-05-17 20:21:57	danieldg	do you also do this for pointers?  That's the point of the x32 architecture, after all
2021-05-17 20:22:23	davros	using 32bit indices intead of 64bit pointers is a way of avoiding needing x32
2021-05-17 20:22:24	danieldg	I think that change does tend to speed things up a bit
2021-05-17 20:22:47	danieldg	no, you only gain less than half the benefit of x32 from just shrinking indexes
2021-05-17 20:22:49	davros	outright 32bit compressed pointers takes a bit more doing but is potssible
2021-05-17 20:23:09	InPhase	danieldg: Can you explain what the reason is for wanting indexing to only work with one sized integer?
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2021-05-17 20:23:11	davros	its a middle ground
2021-05-17 20:24:00	danieldg	InPhase: not needing to worry about overflows in code that handles indexing
2021-05-17 20:24:24	_habnabit	w0x12ef, let's say.. no
2021-05-17 20:24:49	InPhase	danieldg: I'm accustomed to always indexing with 64-bit unless I want overflow, like for a ring buffer or something.
2021-05-17 20:25:02	InPhase	danieldg: But I'm not accustomed to rust idioms yet.
2021-05-17 20:25:03	danieldg	InPhase: for example, if a library was using u16 for indexing, you might have surprise failures when you reach 64k elements - which tends to be annoying because you'd hit it in production and not test
2021-05-17 20:25:10	w0x12ef	_habnabit, so by what
2021-05-17 20:25:28	_habnabit	w0x12ef, "by value" is accurate enough, i suppose
2021-05-17 20:25:34	danieldg	InPhase: so requiring a type that is always large enough makes it harder to write broken code
2021-05-17 20:26:14	danieldg	same logic for if it allowed u32 indexing, but the "breaks now" point is different
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2021-05-17 20:26:59	danieldg	also I didn't make the decision either, I'm mostly post-justifying it
2021-05-17 20:27:06	InPhase	danieldg: Do you happen to know if this requirement disrupts rust benchmarks on older 32-bit systems?
2021-05-17 20:27:23	davros	i think in 32bit they default to 32bit thats fine
2021-05-17 20:27:41	InPhase	danieldg: Not that I think it's worth targetting those anymore, but it's worth understanding if it does.
2021-05-17 20:27:45	davros	and i'm aware in datacentre/hpc scenarios people write code where you really do need 64bit indices
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2021-05-17 20:28:31	danieldg	davros: you could have a "packed" version of your structures for storage in memory and "unpacked" for working with locals, where packed has u32 and unpacked has usize
2021-05-17 20:28:32	davros	but its this middle ground of 8,16gb machiens (that are most common in consumer devices) - where 32bit indices are enough (no one fills ram with one array of bytes)
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2021-05-17 20:29:02	davros	yeah that kind of pack/unpack is a good idea in some scenarios
2021-05-17 20:29:10	danieldg	after all, stuff in locals is usually in registers, and at that point 32-bit and 64-bit both take one register
2021-05-17 20:29:38	w0x12ef	_habnabit, what is the relation of move and reference
2021-05-17 20:29:40	davros	as soon as you have arrays of indices, the size of indices matters
2021-05-17 20:30:09	davros	polygon meshes
2021-05-17 20:30:31	davros	today i'm sitting down to write an atlas generator and for a quiet life i'm using usize indices
2021-05-17 20:30:43	_habnabit	w0x12ef, i don't know how to answer that. can you point at somewhere in a book you're having trouble?
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2021-05-17 20:30:58	davros	and the sum of my software experience is triggered, knowing i'll write things that juggle placements , padded out to 64bits where its not needed
2021-05-17 20:31:11	w0x12ef	_habnabit, rustlings move semantic 1
2021-05-17 20:31:19	_habnabit	w0x12ef, what?
2021-05-17 20:31:23	davros	i dont have textures bigger than 4billion x 4billion
2021-05-17 20:31:50	davros	someone working on google earth might need that sure
2021-05-17 20:32:14	davros	even there you'd probably work on some highly custom format
2021-05-17 20:32:37	davros	anyway enough ranting its not your fault
2021-05-17 20:32:38	w0x12ef	_habnabit, let mut vec = vec;vec.push(22);
2021-05-17 20:32:45	w0x12ef	 ^^^^ cannot borrow as mutable
2021-05-17 20:32:59	w0x12ef	fn fill_vec(vec: Vec<i32>) -> Vec<i32> {
2021-05-17 20:33:43	danieldg	w0x12ef: put it on the playground; what you wrote should work
2021-05-17 20:34:40	w0x12ef	where is the playground
2021-05-17 20:36:11	Arnavion	/topic
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2021-05-17 20:47:23	Flaghacker	w0x12ef, Are you sure your initial right hand side vec isn't &Vec instead of Vec?
2021-05-17 20:47:51	w0x12ef	why &
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2021-05-17 20:56:06	Flaghacker	I meant that vec having the type &Vec is the only way I can see the code "let mut vec = vec; vec.push(0);" not working.
2021-05-17 20:56:44	Flaghacker	w0x12ef, Anyway they were telling you to put your code here so we can see what's actually happening: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=a3558816ca91514f622803a573afe1a0
2021-05-17 20:57:25	Flaghacker	(and it seems like it does work)
2021-05-17 20:58:11	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=5685f9ca2507a1225cc1d593af74c396
2021-05-17 20:59:20	Flaghacker	Well the compiler errors are helpfully telling you to add "mut" on lines and.
2021-05-17 20:59:28	Flaghacker	Did I maybe mis your original question?
2021-05-17 20:59:38	w0x12ef	never
2021-05-17 20:59:49	Flaghacker	(lines 4 and 14, thx numlock)
2021-05-17 21:00:46	w0x12ef	add mut to vec1?
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2021-05-17 21:01:17	rk4	just try doing exactly what the compiler says :)
2021-05-17 21:01:42	w0x12ef	but do not understand
2021-05-17 21:02:00	w0x12ef	maybe I can add mut at the param
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2021-05-17 21:03:00	Flaghacker	Adding it to the param works too. "fn foo(vec: Vec<i32>) { let mut vec = vec; ... }" is equivalent to "fn foo(mut vec: Vec<i32>) { ... }"
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2021-05-17 21:04:11	Flaghacker	And importantly from the outside the function still looks the same, it's not as if the mutability leaks out.
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2021-05-17 21:05:04	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=5685f9ca2507a1225cc1d593af74c396
2021-05-17 21:05:10	w0x12ef	what about this error
2021-05-17 21:06:12	Flaghacker	Hmm can you explain what you don't understand about the error message and what it's suggesting?
2021-05-17 21:07:06	Flaghacker	It's saying "vec1" is not mutable, so it can't call push on it. Then it's suggesting to change "let vec1 = ..." to "let mut vec1 = ..." as the solution.
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2021-05-17 21:15:12	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, warning: variable does not need to be mutable
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2021-05-17 21:15:24	w0x12ef	what is mean of this error
2021-05-17 21:15:52	w0x12ef	for this line : fn fill_vec(mut   vec:  Vec<i32> ) -> Vec<i32> {
2021-05-17 21:17:07	Flaghacker	Hmm I think you sent the wrong link then, this definitely works too: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=5685f9ca2507a1225cc1d593af74c396
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2021-05-17 21:17:21	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, Does it consider that the param will not be modified in the function ,so it should not be declared with mut
2021-05-17 21:17:45	GreenJello	you're defining a separate non-mutable variable with the same name
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2021-05-17 21:18:15	w0x12ef	GreenJello, so that is moving it ?
2021-05-17 21:18:15	GreenJello	so it's never mutated, just moved into that second variable
2021-05-17 21:18:18	GreenJello	yeah
2021-05-17 21:18:25	w0x12ef	ok
2021-05-17 21:18:29	w0x12ef	make sense
2021-05-17 21:19:26	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, that is the move semantic
2021-05-17 21:21:36	Flaghacker	w0x12ef, Sure
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2021-05-17 21:28:29	landaire	Question about Stacked Borrows (https://github.com/rust-lang/unsafe-code-guidelines/blob/master/wip/stacked-borrows.md). I think it's fair to argue that any code casting immutable data as mutable should be considered undefined behavior, but is there an official resource (issue, internals, etc.) I can point at when filing bugs against projects?
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2021-05-17 21:45:05	w0x12ef	Flaghacker, https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=0b158906ad3b536dbaa727cb703214a5
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2021-05-17 21:48:28	Flaghacker	w0x12ef, There you moved the Vec from vec0 into fill_vec, which means you can't use the vec0 variable any more.
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2021-05-17 21:48:51	Flaghacker	Moving leaves the source "empty".
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2021-05-17 21:52:27	w0x12ef	vec0.clone()
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2021-05-18 01:04:16	nerdypepper	hiya o/, can someone help me understand how this results in two mutable borrows? https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=759d0d74ac361f52430491981b8726c7
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2021-05-18 01:07:04	Mutabah	A borrow checker limitation I think
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2021-05-18 01:07:24	Mutabah	early returns can cause the borrow to be extended to the end of the function body
2021-05-18 01:07:26	rk4	hm, implementing an interpreter?
2021-05-18 01:07:43	nerdypepper	rk4: yep its a image processing language :D
2021-05-18 01:07:48	nerdypepper	ah i see, thanks Mutabah
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2021-05-18 01:08:01	rk4	nice
2021-05-18 01:08:01	nerdypepper	Mutabah: any possible workarounds?
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2021-05-18 01:18:26	erikh	drooooooooop
2021-05-18 01:18:39	erikh	where's MCA when you need hi
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2021-05-18 01:21:43	Arnavion	nerdypepper:   let v = env_list.iter_mut().rev().find_map(|local_env| local_env.get_mut(key)).ok_or("not found".to_string())?; Ok(v)
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2021-05-18 01:25:12	nerdypepper	very nice, thanks Arnavion !
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2021-05-18 03:20:35	s1341_	how can I get the return address of a rust function (specifically, in a closure)...
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2021-05-18 03:22:24	s1341_	in stable rust...
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2021-05-18 03:23:10	w0x12ef	what is |_|
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2021-05-18 03:25:36	Mutabah	The argument header to a closure that takes one argument that the body doesn't care about
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2021-05-18 03:33:06	f8e4	hey
2021-05-18 03:34:03	f8e4	is this correc tto instal rust? curl https://sh.rustup.rs -sSf | sh
2021-05-18 03:34:06	f8e4	or virus?
2021-05-18 03:35:23	Mutabah	It's a way of installing rustup, but if you're worried - you can always pipe that curl command to a file, check it, then run
2021-05-18 03:36:10	jbg	some distributions package rustup, too, if you want to outsource that checking
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2021-05-18 03:41:17	f8e4	if i run 'rustup default nightly-2020-10-25' what do i install?
2021-05-18 03:41:23	f8e4	is there a info'
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2021-05-18 03:42:22	s1341_	Mutabah, jbg is there a stable way to get the return address?
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2021-05-18 03:42:52	Mutabah	return address meaning the address the function will return to?
2021-05-18 03:43:01	Mutabah	For what purpose?
2021-05-18 03:43:53	Mutabah	maybe https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/panic/struct.Location.html#method.caller
2021-05-18 03:44:04	s1341_	yeah... I need to do the following:
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2021-05-18 03:44:19	s1341_	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/euXOv4Sb/
2021-05-18 03:44:37	Mutabah	error
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2021-05-18 03:45:06	s1341_	Mutabah: that is pseudo-code.
2021-05-18 03:45:28	barometz	"error fetching paste", not your code :P
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2021-05-18 03:45:33	s1341_	oh... weird.
2021-05-18 03:45:40	s1341_	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MXgyroF7/
2021-05-18 03:45:47	s1341_	try that?
2021-05-18 03:45:49	barometz	same
2021-05-18 03:45:58	s1341_	damn irccloud...
2021-05-18 03:46:02	s1341_	let me paste it elsewher.
2021-05-18 03:46:03	osse	Is there a way to read a number of bytes from a TcpStream but indicate that I haven't consumed it? I want to get those bytes again on a subsequent read
2021-05-18 03:46:25	barometz	the usual name for such a thing is "peek"
2021-05-18 03:46:26	s1341_	https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/dkCwmKb23J/
2021-05-18 03:47:02	osse	indeed
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2021-05-18 03:47:43	s1341_	Mutabah, barometz ^
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2021-05-18 03:50:13	barometz	don't have anything substantial to add unfortunately
2021-05-18 03:50:21	s1341_	:(
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2021-05-18 03:51:02	Mutabah	Inline assembly? External assembly?
2021-05-18 03:52:53	s1341_	ok. so no easy way.
2021-05-18 03:52:59	s1341_	inline assembly is not stable.
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2021-05-18 04:17:50	jbg	s1341_: doesn't seem terrible to need to use nightly for something like this?
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2021-05-18 04:26:32	s1341_	it's part of a wider tool.... (libafl), i don't want to require nightly if I don't need to... I have an alternative.
2021-05-18 04:27:54	j`ey	whats the alternative?
2021-05-18 04:28:31	s1341_	I'm within the context of a frida-interception. so I can use frida-methods to get the return address.
2021-05-18 04:29:36	j`ey	ah
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2021-05-18 05:28:27	Reventlov	Hello
2021-05-18 05:28:42	Reventlov	I'm trying to cargo build on some server and this is what I get: https://0x0.st/-jdr.txt
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2021-05-18 05:31:32	Reventlov	Any idea how to debug this ?
2021-05-18 05:31:32	j`ey	Reventlov: did you look at the error?
2021-05-18 05:31:56	Reventlov	yeah
2021-05-18 05:32:10	Reventlov	I didn't clone anything "by hand"
2021-05-18 05:32:23	Reventlov	I just have this in my dependencies: zstd = "0.5"
2021-05-18 05:32:41	Reventlov	so I don't really understand what would be the cause of this
2021-05-18 05:32:57	j`ey	hmm
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2021-05-18 05:34:16	Reventlov	(it's a weird setup involving nix but still)
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2021-05-18 05:35:06	j`ey	gimme a sec, im trying it
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2021-05-18 05:36:17	j`ey	seems to be building so far, maybe nix is the issue somehow
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2021-05-18 05:36:50	j`ey	Reventlov: yup, built fine for me
2021-05-18 05:37:11	Reventlov	yeah it works on my laptop, just not on my server
2021-05-18 05:37:18	Reventlov	so I'm wondering how to debug this
2021-05-18 05:38:41	j`ey	Reventlov: both nixos?
2021-05-18 05:38:54	Reventlov	nope, the server is some lab server on debian on which i'm not root…
2021-05-18 05:39:15	j`ey	cargo shouldnt need root for anything
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2021-05-18 05:41:28	Reventlov	Another peculiarity: I'm in a tempfs
2021-05-18 05:41:49	Reventlov	could it be the problem ?
2021-05-18 05:42:32	Reventlov	j`ey: yeah but nix does require root when you install it
2021-05-18 05:42:33	j`ey	I doubt it.. but can you try without?
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2021-05-18 05:43:20	Reventlov	yeah just retried again, still a problem :|
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2021-05-18 05:49:18	j`ey	Reventlov: do you have git?
2021-05-18 05:51:02	Reventlov	yeah
2021-05-18 05:51:31	jbg	check the mount options on the tmpfs? if it's noexec that might be an issue for build scripts
2021-05-18 05:51:58	j`ey	well this error is from the build script
2021-05-18 05:53:08	j`ey	although im struggling to find it here https://github.com/gyscos/zstd-rs
2021-05-18 05:53:30	j`ey	Reventlov: https://github.com/gyscos/zstd-rs/blob/master/zstd-safe/zstd-sys/build.rs#L176 hm
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2021-05-18 05:54:22	Reventlov	oh
2021-05-18 05:54:31	Reventlov	pkg-config might not be available, let me check
2021-05-18 05:55:57	Reventlov	well it is
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2021-05-18 06:08:54	ap5	I have multiple structs that implement a trait of some sort. Is it possible to do some sort of "if typeof(my_struct) == struct1" in Rust?
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2021-05-18 06:17:18	trevarj	ap5 search for "downcasting"
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2021-05-18 06:17:29	trevarj	assuming you're handling a trait object
2021-05-18 06:18:17	davros	https://pasteboard.co/K2rItbw.png un bitrotting my rust q1 loader (some code here predates v1.0 , lol)
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2021-05-18 06:29:43	s1341_	how can I coeerce a closue to a raw pointer?
2021-05-18 06:30:07	j`ey	that only works if you dont capture anything
2021-05-18 06:30:17	s1341_	uh... so not useful as such...
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2021-05-18 06:30:43	_habnabit	s1341_, put it in a Box?
2021-05-18 06:30:46	s1341_	is there any way to have a function with state as a ffi callback?
2021-05-18 06:30:56	j`ey	add a void* param
2021-05-18 06:31:00	s1341_	_habnabit: but the ffi needs to call it...
2021-05-18 06:31:10	j`ey	global variables
2021-05-18 06:31:29	_habnabit	s1341_, is the ffi's ABI fixed?
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2021-05-18 06:31:48	s1341_	yes...
2021-05-18 06:31:55	_habnabit	s1341_, and it lacks a context void* param?
2021-05-18 06:32:10	s1341_	it has a void*... but i'm not sure how my function is called....
2021-05-18 06:32:24	s1341_	let me look into that.
2021-05-18 06:32:26	j`ey	does your ffi callback get that void*?
2021-05-18 06:32:34	s1341_	that's what I'm checking.
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2021-05-18 06:33:02	_habnabit	s1341_, the typical way is to to build a trampoline which uses a generic function to monomorphize the possible callbacks into their own symbols
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2021-05-18 06:33:06	j`ey	s1341_: didnt we go through this before?
2021-05-18 06:33:13	j`ey	cos you were going to look at jitting something etc
2021-05-18 06:33:46	s1341_	yeah. that was a different mechanism for hooking.
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2021-05-18 06:33:59	j`ey	same issue though, closure
2021-05-18 06:34:02	s1341_	now I'm converting to hook with frida...
2021-05-18 06:34:09	s1341_	yeah... same issue...
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2021-05-18 06:43:16	s1341_	j`ey: if I pass the 'self' (xxx) as my void*, is there a way i can generically call xxx.yyy, passing self and whatever other params?
2021-05-18 06:43:40	j`ey	generically?
2021-05-18 06:43:46	s1341_	if possible...
2021-05-18 06:43:58	j`ey	you mean like, rust geenrics, or something else?
2021-05-18 06:44:21	s1341_	Oh. I mean, such that it works for wahtever xxx and yyy... (and whatever signature yyy has)
2021-05-18 06:44:27	s1341_	i guess i need jit for that too...
2021-05-18 06:44:52	j`ey	yeah, if you need to pass different number of params
2021-05-18 06:44:58	j`ey	if it's just a void*, it should work
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2021-05-18 06:50:18	_habnabit	s1341_, you don't need JIT. you can use monomorphization like i said
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2021-05-18 06:51:16	s1341_	_habnabit: hrm... that makes sense... but I would need to know all callbacks ahead of time.
2021-05-18 06:51:36	_habnabit	s1341_, why? generics mean you don't need to
2021-05-18 06:51:51	s1341_	i'm not seeing it... can you sketch some pseudo code?
2021-05-18 06:52:01	_habnabit	yeah one sec
2021-05-18 06:52:10	s1341_	thanks really appreciate all the help.
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2021-05-18 07:04:21	_habnabit	s1341_, https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=d9a6a5b4d77c2e88e384a0c326108b18
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2021-05-18 07:04:35	dexter	Hi!
2021-05-18 07:04:41	dexter	How do I enable async closures?
2021-05-18 07:05:48	s1341_	_habnabit: ok, how would I dispatch to the various callback functions?
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2021-05-18 07:06:16	_habnabit	s1341_, https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=04c326844b508ad272c9719d4cf6ee8b ?
2021-05-18 07:07:01	s1341_	okk. cool.
2021-05-18 07:07:11	s1341_	but what if I need the closures to have different signatures?
2021-05-18 07:07:43	_habnabit	s1341_, can you give an example?
2021-05-18 07:08:21	s1341_	so i need to hook malloc (Fn(usize) -> usize) and calloc (Fn(usize, usize) -> usize)....
2021-05-18 07:08:29	s1341_	for example...
2021-05-18 07:08:53	_habnabit	s1341_, i don't know what 'hook' means in your context
2021-05-18 07:09:15	s1341_	in my context, calling the c/ffi function with the various closures.
2021-05-18 07:10:19	_habnabit	s1341_, yeah, i can't puzzle out what that means for you and i need to go anyway. maybe post some more concrete examples of what you want this to look like for someone else
2021-05-18 07:10:28	s1341_	ok....
2021-05-18 07:10:30	s1341_	thanks anyhow.
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2021-05-18 07:29:40	trevarj	dexter the error when you try to use one should show you. it's a feature flag i think
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2021-05-18 07:43:56	dexter	Trevarj: no it doesnt
2021-05-18 07:44:01	dexter	i already added the featre flag
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2021-05-18 07:44:14	dexter	but it doesn't go past "it's unstable"
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2021-05-18 08:17:07	trevarj	dexter are you on nightly?
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2021-05-18 08:19:23	s1341_	how can I create a macro which copies a list of formal arguments to a list of function call arguments...
2021-05-18 08:20:27	s1341_	so if I have my_macro!(fn_name, (size: usize, count: usize)), it should generate: fn_name(size, count)
2021-05-18 08:20:34	s1341_	expand to*
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2021-05-18 08:27:55	amnrst	s1341_: read https://veykril.github.io/tlborm/macros/macro_rules.html#repetitions
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2021-05-18 08:40:57	amahl	is there a way to test if stdin has bytes available to be read without blocking? not seeing anything helpful in std::io::Stdin
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2021-05-18 08:42:59	amahl	or do I just use libc instead of rust std?
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2021-05-18 08:46:28	amahl	maybe I want to use select() syscall. I wish to read both stdin and TCP sockets in a single threaded program
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2021-05-18 08:46:58	dalcde	You should look into async
2021-05-18 08:47:00	w0x12ef	what is || operator
2021-05-18 08:47:38	dalcde	or
2021-05-18 08:47:58	w0x12ef	?
2021-05-18 08:48:09	dalcde	It is the "or" operator
2021-05-18 08:48:26	dalcde	If my program is using more memory than I expect, what is a good way to debug it?
2021-05-18 08:48:52	w0x12ef	ptrace
2021-05-18 08:48:56	dalcde	Specifically, I am doing some computations with a lot of intermediate allocations that get deallocated
2021-05-18 08:49:04	amahl	ok I will read the async thing first
2021-05-18 08:49:10	w0x12ef	thread::spawn(move || {
2021-05-18 08:49:10	w0x12ef	        let v = val.fetch_add(1, Ordering::SeqCst);
2021-05-18 08:49:11	w0x12ef	        println!("{:?}", v);
2021-05-18 08:49:11	w0x12ef	    });
2021-05-18 08:49:13	dalcde	After the computations complete I save the final result and it takes around 40 GiB
2021-05-18 08:49:19	w0x12ef	what is || mean here
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2021-05-18 08:49:34	Shell	it means "a closure with no arguments"
2021-05-18 08:49:51	dalcde	But during the computation it consumes ~90 GiB or more
2021-05-18 08:49:52	Shell	move || {} is the complete bit of syntax here
2021-05-18 08:50:03	w0x12ef	it's syntax sugar?
2021-05-18 08:50:06	dalcde	(as in, it OOMs on a machine with ~90 GiB but doesn't on a slightly larger machine)
2021-05-18 08:50:18	dalcde	w0x12ef: It is two | that happen to have nothing in between.
2021-05-18 08:50:36	w0x12ef	do not make sense
2021-05-18 08:50:38	dalcde	(it would look like () => {} in, say, JavaScript)
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2021-05-18 08:50:49	dalcde	(it's that in Rust we use | for both ( and ))
2021-05-18 08:50:55	Shell	it is not syntax sugar.
2021-05-18 08:50:56	dalcde	(and omit the =>)
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2021-05-18 08:51:09	Shell	w0x12ef: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch13-01-closures.html
2021-05-18 08:51:16	w0x12ef	dalcde, do you mean closure by () => {}
2021-05-18 08:51:21	dalcde	Yes.
2021-05-18 08:51:27	dalcde	Specifically the empty closure
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2021-05-18 08:54:51	yuri6037	Hi, I have a question: is there a standard set of utilities that can be used to create a UTF32 string from a UTF8 string?
2021-05-18 08:56:25	yuri6037	I know about widestring crate, but this crate is more intended for FFI types. I do not want FFI/ C level interop what I need it for is FULLY safe usage of UTF32 in user code. That means there must not be a way to throw invalid data inside the UTF32 string
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2021-05-18 08:57:36	yuri6037	This is needed for a unicode aware font rendering (including support for emojis and other similar complex characters)
2021-05-18 08:57:50	jbg	why do you need UTF32 for unicode aware font rendering?
2021-05-18 08:58:22	jbg	utf32 can represent the same set of glyphs that utf8 can; why do you care how the bytes are arranged for font rendering?
2021-05-18 08:58:25	yuri6037	because libraries such as freetype do not care about UTF8 and formats such as TTF are design with UTF32
2021-05-18 08:58:39	jbg	sounds a lot like FFI to me
2021-05-18 08:59:07	jbg	if you have known-valid UTF-8 (i.e. a rust String/&str) then all you need is a simple mapping; the result will be known-valid UTF-32
2021-05-18 08:59:23	yuri6037	except that I cannot accept the user to throw invalid data and still the user must be able to use those strings as converting UTF8-32 on the fly everytime you render a string is too slow
2021-05-18 08:59:58	jbg	"most of the time" converting UTF-8 to UTF-32 is pretty cheap
2021-05-18 09:00:19	yuri6037	I know how UTF8-32 and even 16 works I have wrote encoders and decoders for those it's not terribly hard I just wanted to know if there's crate that can do that
2021-05-18 09:00:20	jbg	if you have an American/"western" idea of "most of the time", anyway ;)
2021-05-18 09:00:51	yuri6037	Well you still need an allocation to create the UTF32 holder
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2021-05-18 09:01:03	jbg	I haven't seen something other than widestring specifically for utf32
2021-05-18 09:01:09	jbg	oencoding-rs
2021-05-18 09:01:12	jbg	oops
2021-05-18 09:01:20	jbg	I've used encoding-rs for some similar things but it doesn't do utf32 I think
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2021-05-18 09:01:59	jbg	if you want a utf32 string type with the safety/functionality of String I think you will have the joy of creating one
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2021-05-18 09:02:57	yuri6037	that's what I thought. It's no big deal as I said when I made my own in C++ it took about 2-3 hours after finding the grale (the annoying impossible to find technical docs on UTF encodings)
2021-05-18 09:03:13	jbg	I guess you could also consider whether Vec<char> (or some other container of char) suits your needs, perhaps with a wrapper to improve ergonomics
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2021-05-18 09:04:05	yuri6037	I was think of something like a struct Utf32String with From implementation for std String and Into implementation
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2021-05-18 09:04:44	yuri6037	and also an Index implementation to get a SINGLE character that's very important to properly handle freetype rendering
2021-05-18 09:05:25	yuri6037	also perhaps Utf32Str which would be like &str
2021-05-18 09:06:16	yuri6037	I just have no idea what type is str in Rust
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2021-05-18 09:06:54	jbg	what do you mean by that? str is a type
2021-05-18 09:07:07	yuri6037	I meant String is a struct but what is str?
2021-05-18 09:07:29	jbg	&str is a pointer to UTF-8 bytes, and a length in bytes
2021-05-18 09:07:47	jbg	String is similar but owns the data
2021-05-18 09:07:49	yuri6037	like when rust made the Path and the PathBuf what implementation differences are there?
2021-05-18 09:07:56	jbg	one is owned, one is not
2021-05-18 09:08:05	jbg	that's it
2021-05-18 09:08:06	yuri6037	I know that's not my question
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2021-05-18 09:08:23	yuri6037	my question is how is Path internally represented is it a struct?
2021-05-18 09:08:24	jbg	what exactly is your question then?
2021-05-18 09:08:28	dutchie	str is builtin just like u32 and f32 and array types
2021-05-18 09:08:31	dutchie	Path is a struct
2021-05-18 09:08:52	yuri6037	is there any access to source code for Path
2021-05-18 09:09:04	dutchie	yeah there is a source link in the documentation
2021-05-18 09:09:20	dutchie	https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/path/struct.Path.html top right
2021-05-18 09:09:37	dutchie	(it's not very interesting...)
2021-05-18 09:10:19	jbg	yuri6037: rust is open-source, there is access to all source code
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2021-05-18 09:11:03	yuri6037	jbg: I'm not used to the src link. I'm so used to the annoying hard to find source and tech docs in C++ projects
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2021-05-18 09:11:35	jbg	you can also just have a look on GitHub, the source is well-organised and very easy to find your way around if you already know the layout of std
2021-05-18 09:11:38	yuri6037	dutchie: thanks yes I found it not very useful thou
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2021-05-18 09:11:59	jbg	what exactly are you trying to find out?
2021-05-18 09:12:37	jbg	a Path is an OsStr which is a slice (pointer and length)
2021-05-18 09:12:41	yuri6037	I'm trying to find what is the best way to implement my Utf32Str to match the behavior of &str
2021-05-18 09:12:49	jbg	a &str is also a slice (pointer and length)
2021-05-18 09:12:59	jimkooch	sorry if this question is unusual: Does the F35 project, in any of its modules, use Rust programming language?
2021-05-18 09:13:49	jbg	jimkooch: either the answer to that question is public knowledge, in which case google can tell you, or it's not, in which case even if anyone in this channel knew the answer they wouldn't be able to tell you
2021-05-18 09:14:03	yuri6037	Can you use Slice in you own code?
2021-05-18 09:14:46	jbg	sure, &[u8] for example
2021-05-18 09:16:28	jbg	a utf-32 string would sensibly be implemented as a wrapper around some bytes, right? just like &str or String
2021-05-18 09:16:37	jbg	so your borrowed utf32str would be a wrapper around a &[u8]
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2021-05-18 09:16:49	jbg	your owned Utf32String could be a wrapper around a Vec<u8>
2021-05-18 09:18:12	yuri6037	yes I could do this way I was thinking of using a Vec<u32> but I can always use u8
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2021-05-18 09:19:31	Shell	Vec<u32> is a plenty good idea
2021-05-18 09:22:36	jbg	yeah, Vec<u32> is also fine since UTF-32 is fixed-length (not really a TF at all). it will almost certainly be usually being constructed from a Vec<u8> (for the owned type) or &[u8] (for the borrowed one) though
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2021-05-18 09:27:14	yuri6037	jbg: is there some kind of wide string litteral in rust?
2021-05-18 09:27:46	jbg	not that I'm aware of, and I'd be surprised if there was
2021-05-18 09:28:31	jimkooch	yuri6037: you mean, the wchar_t* type in C++ ?
2021-05-18 09:28:31	jbg	there's always byte string literals though!
2021-05-18 09:28:45	jimkooch	or, L"hello" string literal?
2021-05-18 09:29:16	yuri6037	on linux yes, on windows no
2021-05-18 09:29:43	jimkooch	yuri6037: well, Windows uses 2 bytes and Linux 4 bytes for wchar_t*
2021-05-18 09:30:06	yuri6037	I know that's why I said on linux
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2021-05-18 09:30:41	yuri6037	but it's not the type that I was refering to I was refering to the L"" thing
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2021-05-18 09:32:25	yuri6037	According to some random post on stackoverflow some people says you can make your own type of litterals with proc macros in rust is this tue?
2021-05-18 09:32:53	jbg	sounds true enough, rust_decimal has dec!(3.1415) which doesn't round-trip through float
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2021-05-18 09:33:55	yuri6037	it says something about making a proc macro named litteralsuffix_literal
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2021-05-18 09:35:05	yuri6037	if that's possible there might be a way to create a 'static ref to utf32 strings natively supported by rust. No need of allocation that would great to store invariable strings in apps
2021-05-18 09:35:10	jbg	I mean, I don't think you're going to be able to create L"", but you could create utf32!()
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2021-05-18 09:36:01	yuri6037	i don't want L"thing" it's in all cases not clear enought I through of introducing something like let litteral = "my super string"utf32;
2021-05-18 09:36:19	jbg	yeah I don't think you'll be able to do that unless the whole definition is wrapped in a macro
2021-05-18 09:36:33	jbg	but `let literal = utf32!("my super string");` seems fine
2021-05-18 09:36:54	jbg	and has the advantage of being obvious to any rust programmer as opposed to a weird postfix-syntax that nobody has ever seen before
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2021-05-18 09:37:17	yuri6037	Quote: t takes any custom integer literals 123x or 123y in the given expression, and transforms them into the function calls x_literal(123) and y_literal(123) instead:
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2021-05-18 09:37:37	jbg	I *think* that probably works because there is already postfix-type-syntax for integer/float literals
2021-05-18 09:37:42	jbg	I'm not sure if you could do it for strings?
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2021-05-18 09:38:49	yuri6037	so the question is can you write a proc macro that changes the litteral you give ?
2021-05-18 09:39:08	jbg	a proc macro can do anything it likes within the macro invocation
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2021-05-18 09:39:28	yuri6037	But how do you make a proc macro that is not a derive one?
2021-05-18 09:39:54	yuri6037	I never found any clear docs on this and it only mentions you can do it but it does not say how
2021-05-18 09:40:06	jbg	so `utf32_strings! { let foo = "bar"; let bar = "foo"; }` or `let foo = utf32!("bar");`, fine
2021-05-18 09:40:35	yuri6037	this one seem easier to use: let foo = utf32!("bar")
2021-05-18 09:40:43	jbg	yes, it's clear and concise
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2021-05-18 09:40:47	jbg	the docs on proc macros are quite good I think? https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/procedural-macros.html and the previous section macros by example
2021-05-18 09:41:10	jbg	you could also look at e.g. the rust_decimal::dec macro for an example of a "literal" implemented with a macro
2021-05-18 09:41:25	yuri6037	ok I saw it thanks for the link
2021-05-18 09:41:25	jbg	also https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch19-06-macros.html
2021-05-18 09:42:06	yuri6037	it should be rather simple cause I'm expecting only 1 token of type string
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2021-05-18 09:42:56	yuri6037	then will do this. I think it's the best way to achieve the Utf32Str borrowed version
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2021-05-18 09:45:33	yuri6037	anyway thanks a lot for the doc. I've got so much difficulty finding good docs when writing codes...
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2021-05-18 09:57:34	s1341_	is there any way to force rust to link with libc++.so.1?
2021-05-18 09:57:41	s1341_	(or whatever libc++ is called)
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2021-05-18 10:00:22	s1341_	or alternatively, how can I conditionally expand a custom macro?
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2021-05-18 10:02:25	Reventlov	hey
2021-05-18 10:02:35	Reventlov	I'm trying to reinstall cargo on some machine and this is what I get: https://0x0.st/-jn3.txt
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2021-05-18 10:02:37	Reventlov	any idea ?
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2021-05-18 11:39:09	tomboy64	hmmm
2021-05-18 11:39:18	tomboy64	is there actually progress being made on orbtk?
2021-05-18 11:39:32	tomboy64	much like redox it seems kinda dormant
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2021-05-18 11:57:41	jbg	looks like reasonably steady progress, about what you'd expect from a project like it I think?
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2021-05-18 12:05:42	trevarj	the only toy OS i'm going to use is j`ey's when it boots into a shell
2021-05-18 12:08:16	j`ey	trevarj: jbg talked about an OS too ;)
2021-05-18 12:09:39	jbg	hah yeah
2021-05-18 12:09:44	jbg	sadly have had no time to work on that lately
2021-05-18 12:09:45	trevarj	i read osdev wiki once too....and now i'm living with the fact that i suck at programming
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2021-05-18 12:10:01	j`ey	trevarj: osdev wiki is just.. dense
2021-05-18 12:10:04	jbg	been overhauling CI/CD for ~40 rust projects
2021-05-18 12:10:23	jbg	osdev wiki is an amazing resource though
2021-05-18 12:10:40	j`ey	too x86 heavy
2021-05-18 12:10:41	jbg	when I was tinkering with postmarketos stuff there was lots of useful stuff on osdev
2021-05-18 12:10:50	jbg	it is quite x86 heavy but there is some general stuff there
2021-05-18 12:10:50	trevarj	"haha just write your own Forth IDIOT!!!"
2021-05-18 12:11:05	j`ey	trevarj: you would learn a lot ;)
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2021-05-18 12:13:33	trevarj	j`ey have you done it?
2021-05-18 12:13:48	j`ey	trevarj: not a forth, but other small languages
2021-05-18 12:14:21	trevarj	honestly i don't even know what "make your own Forth" means. is it just a stack based VM?
2021-05-18 12:14:27	j`ey	yeah
2021-05-18 12:15:14	trevarj	ok that's not so bad. what about reading an entire cpu manual and writing an emulator?
2021-05-18 12:15:38	j`ey	depends on the CPU
2021-05-18 12:15:44	j`ey	aarch64? quite a lot
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2021-05-18 12:16:26	trevarj	too mainstream :o)
2021-05-18 12:16:47	 *	j`ey slaps trevarj 
2021-05-18 12:17:16	trevarj	i recently saw a risc v emulator in rust that was a modest size
2021-05-18 12:18:19	j`ey	my friend is using a library called r68k-rs for writing an emulator
2021-05-18 12:19:16	trevarj	j`ey this? https://github.com/marhel/r68k
2021-05-18 12:19:36	j`ey	yeah i think so
2021-05-18 12:19:53	j`ey	and he wrote an emulator for the GPU and stuff, so now it can run sonic games and stuff nearly
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2021-05-18 12:21:24	trevarj	ah yeah the genesis cpu
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2021-05-18 12:21:50	j`ey	megadrive, maybe it was genesis too
2021-05-18 12:22:00	Kirjava	yea its both
2021-05-18 12:22:43	trevarj	i always start projects like that then lose motivation instantly...i blame society
2021-05-18 12:22:47	 *	trevarj emo hair flip
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2021-05-18 12:55:11	davros	i see rust now has a foundation behind it (i guess that was to rescue it from the mozilla downsizing)
2021-05-18 12:56:28	davros	i wonder how much it would cost to get enough votes to force Vec<T,Index> into the ecosystem (probably more than I can personally afford but its an interesting exercise to contemplate)
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2021-05-18 12:56:45	j`ey	lol
2021-05-18 12:56:59	j`ey	the foundation isnt relation to that, if thats what youre asking
2021-05-18 12:57:13	davros	who decides that ten
2021-05-18 12:57:16	davros	then ^
2021-05-18 12:57:31	bertptrs	An RFC which anyone could make
2021-05-18 12:57:35	davros	i figured long ago
2021-05-18 12:57:44	bertptrs	And people who like the benefits of your idea over its downsides
2021-05-18 12:57:54	j`ey	the core team, I think that is?
2021-05-18 12:57:58	davros	indeed people need to be paid for software , we get used to it being free then it comes as a shock that people have to claw back $$ other ways
2021-05-18 12:58:18	davros	I figure in C++ certain problems remain because the committee is comprised of people selling fixes
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2021-05-18 12:58:39	davros	I wonder if "u32 indexing in 64bit" will become that issue, where i'd have to spend serious $$$$ to get a fix
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2021-05-18 12:59:11	bertptrs	it has a relatively tiny benefit over (u32 as usize) and would complicate things a lot
2021-05-18 12:59:23	davros	although my argument is that anyone that uses rust is "paying" in mindshare - one has to sacrifice existing knowledge to use it
2021-05-18 12:59:23	Shell	davros: you file an RFC and convince people that this is actually a good idea. the foundation isn't involved.
2021-05-18 12:59:39	Arnavion	But if you absolutely want to pay someone I'd be happy to take your money off you
2021-05-18 12:59:50	j`ey	me too
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2021-05-18 12:59:54	davros	what if everyone that agrees with me is over in ##c++, saying "rust is too much of a pain , i dont care about it"
2021-05-18 13:00:34	jbg	haha as long as there's no guarantee the feature gets in, right j`ey Arnavion ;)
2021-05-18 13:00:40	Shell	I really doubt that indexing a Vec with a u32 is the reason ##c++ aren't using Rust.
2021-05-18 13:01:05	davros	its one of many things that together tips people over the edge
2021-05-18 13:01:05	j`ey	jbg: payable upon start, not completion :P
2021-05-18 13:01:22	davros	some people tell me they reject it because they dont like writing "fn"
2021-05-18 13:01:38	Shell	davros: people reject Rust for a lot of emotional reasons.
2021-05-18 13:01:54	davros	most say "it's too restrictive"
2021-05-18 13:01:57	Shell	people like what they know and what they've got paid to write for the last 20 years, unsurprisingly.
2021-05-18 13:02:08	Polochon_street	if I published a crate named `<crate>-rs` by mistake, and I'd like to change it to just `<crate>`, I can't do anything to the crates.io page, right?
2021-05-18 13:02:10	bertptrs	I've heard that one too, although half of them are frustrated that there's a keyword at all and the other half are frustrated that it's not "function"
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2021-05-18 13:02:17	bertptrs	Polochon_street: nope
2021-05-18 13:02:21	Polochon_street	RIP
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2021-05-18 13:03:28	davros	"its just 2 characters" .. "BUT YOU HAVE TO WRITE THOSE TWO CHARACTERS ON EVERY FUNCTION"
2021-05-18 13:03:56	davros	if people can reject it for that, i bet you there are plenty who are rejecting it because of the pain of using different index types.
2021-05-18 13:04:13	j`ey	trevarj: Kirjava https://kirjava.xyz/sonic2/
2021-05-18 13:04:14	jbg	sure, but who really cares
2021-05-18 13:04:16	Shell	davros: the people who are rejecting it for that wouldn't use Rust if it had some other function syntax.
2021-05-18 13:04:24	jbg	we all reject languages for a range of crap reasons
2021-05-18 13:04:33	bertptrs	yes, but there are also people who consider it a benefit that you can't use arbitrary integers as indexes. Saves you from a giant class of bugs
2021-05-18 13:04:37	davros	some people want safety retrofitted to c++
2021-05-18 13:04:52	davros	(whcih would baiscally be rust with c++ namespacing etc)
2021-05-18 13:04:55	Shell	right, and Rust isn't retrofitting safety to C++, it's a different language.
2021-05-18 13:05:01	jbg	calling the lack of arbitrary index types something that needs "a fix" is a bit silly. it's a missing feature, not a bug
2021-05-18 13:05:27	davros	its fixable in the library, the language "engine" is capable
2021-05-18 13:05:37	davros	i dont call it a bug
2021-05-18 13:05:48	bertptrs	Yes, but not everyone agrees with the notion that doing so would be an improvement
2021-05-18 13:05:50	Shell	if you /really/ want Vec with u32 instead of usize, the source code is there, copy it into your project and s/usize/u32/
2021-05-18 13:06:21	davros	the problem is everything i write becomes less compatable with everyone else just to get that fix in
2021-05-18 13:06:38	Shell	Vec<u8, u32> is incompatible with Vec<u8> anyway.
2021-05-18 13:06:41	davros	if it was a generic we could have both , people get usize out of the box and those who need furtehr control also get it
2021-05-18 13:06:44	jbg	repeatedly calling it a "fix" is not going to help with convincing anyone that it should be in std
2021-05-18 13:06:57	davros	but code could be written to handle both with a generic index
2021-05-18 13:07:08	Shell	I'm not writing that code.
2021-05-18 13:07:09	davros	a generic index can help in other ways i.e typesafe indexing
2021-05-18 13:07:22	j`ey	davros: but all the current code is written with Vec<u32>, which would be implcitily usize
2021-05-18 13:07:28	Shell	practically nobody will write that code. it's not a useful feature and it's /really/ annoying.
2021-05-18 13:07:35	davros	like making a newtype for "vertex indices" in a graph datastrcutre
2021-05-18 13:07:51	Shell	you'd be the only person writing code that uses that feature, in practice. none of the libraries you use will be compatible with it.
2021-05-18 13:08:03	davros	anyone that writes game engines will need it
2021-05-18 13:08:06	amahl	consider this: a struct has a member x which you want to be u32. [x] is 3 characters whereas [x as usize] is 12 characters. only 8 characters, no big deal? what if its 1000 lines of code? then its 8000 extra characters
2021-05-18 13:08:26	davros	the size of index lists matters
2021-05-18 13:08:36	bertptrs	davros: you can cast those indexes on use
2021-05-18 13:08:44	Shell	no, you don't "need" it, you can do x as usize.
2021-05-18 13:08:46	j`ey	or write a wrapper
2021-05-18 13:08:48	davros	it filters all the way through your cod
2021-05-18 13:08:50	davros	code^
2021-05-18 13:08:55	davros	its just unecaserily annoying
2021-05-18 13:09:13	j`ey	a wrapper around Vec, fixes everything, it doesnt *need* to be in std
2021-05-18 13:09:20	bertptrs	for you. for others, an additional generic would be annoying
2021-05-18 13:09:35	davros	you know theres a chip shortage right
2021-05-18 13:09:46	davros	"hey everyonre just use 64bits where 32bits will do"
2021-05-18 13:09:49	jbg	lol
2021-05-18 13:09:56	Shell	if you /really/ want you can write a struct U32IndexTranslator<T> which makes a Index<usize> implement Index<u32> by casting.
2021-05-18 13:10:03	bertptrs	that's a very silly argument and you know it
2021-05-18 13:10:04	jbg	cuz we could make twice as many chips with the same factory capacity right?
2021-05-18 13:10:06	amahl	a lot of code ends up hard to read. or end up re-implementing the same wrapper. or use one of 142 crates that re-implement the same wrapper
2021-05-18 13:10:07	jbg	lmfao
2021-05-18 13:10:09	j`ey	Shell: we've been through this maby times before!
2021-05-18 13:10:34	Shell	there's like a dozen solutions to this that don't involve adding weird features to the standard library that only you will use.
2021-05-18 13:10:50	davros	then there's other solutions which could appear in the language engine like module level type-params
2021-05-18 13:11:02	jbg	if davros had spent half as many words writing an RFC as they've spent advocating for arbitrary indexes in here...
2021-05-18 13:11:04	davros	another solution would have been a system type and a build config
2021-05-18 13:11:16	davros	jbg i've been on this since 2014
2021-05-18 13:11:21	j`ey	yeah, we know
2021-05-18 13:11:24	Shell	and you haven't written an RFC?
2021-05-18 13:11:36	davros	because the feedback i always get is "you're wrong for wanting it"
2021-05-18 13:11:43	j`ey	where?
2021-05-18 13:11:52	Shell	perhaps if you write an RFC the people who agree with you will show up
2021-05-18 13:12:01	 *	Shell doesn't believe they actually exist, but.
2021-05-18 13:12:07	j`ey	they wont cos they dismissed rust already :/
2021-05-18 13:12:14	bertptrs	I think you are, but I'm also not on the core team, so if you could argue your case by writing the RFC
2021-05-18 13:12:16	davros	they exist and they're not using rust because they find it too annoying
2021-05-18 13:12:53	j`ey	I still think this is better served by a good crate wrapper, and so would the commens on the RFC i believe
2021-05-18 13:12:58	davros	probably hard to retrofit to the ecosystem but imagine this
2021-05-18 13:13:01	Shell	davros: istg if there is /anyone/ who refuses to write Rust for the /only/ reason that they might have to write a wrapper struct...
2021-05-18 13:13:05	j`ey	even just as an MVP. like how hashbrown was a separate crate first
2021-05-18 13:13:29	jbg	I really don't see any reason at all why it needs to be in std
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2021-05-18 13:13:47	Shell	davros: I really, really doubt there are a ton of people who will not use Rust for the /only/ reason that the standard library Vec is not indexable by u32.
2021-05-18 13:14:02	davros	(a seperate type along the lines of "usize" that is "the natural index type". usually just usize.  but like we have "x64", a "build target" which is "64bit with 32bit indices". the best choice for programs running on 4-16gb machines.)
2021-05-18 13:14:14	davros	(that would do it without a typeparam)
2021-05-18 13:15:17	j`ey	that's x32 isnt it?
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2021-05-18 13:15:38	davros	x32 is 32bit pointers (to my knowledge = 4gb app workspace)
2021-05-18 13:16:13	davros	the next step up is 64bit adress space but 32bit indices - fine for everyone who doesn't fill the entirity of memory with one array
2021-05-18 13:16:18	amahl	my main gripe with rust is how much typing it takes. its not just indices but feels like a bunch of other stuff also makes rust code rather long
2021-05-18 13:16:38	davros	beyond 64gb ram, usize indices would be essential i guess.
2021-05-18 13:17:12	davros	i think overall its about the same as c++
2021-05-18 13:17:30	davros	eg fator in the bloat of "tempalte< typename...>"  and writing move constructors by hand etc
2021-05-18 13:17:43	j`ey	amahl: compared to what languages?
2021-05-18 13:18:08	amahl	the other 2 that I use a bunch are C and Python
2021-05-18 13:18:16	davros	i say you cannot have safety,performance, and simplicity all togtehr. rust sacrifices simplicity  for the first 2
2021-05-18 13:18:19	j`ey	i feel like C has a lot of typing too
2021-05-18 13:18:24	davros	performance+safety requires extra markup
2021-05-18 13:19:42	davros	sometimes you can write smaller code in c++ by sacrificing alot of safety. "*" is a generic pointer type :)
2021-05-18 13:20:33	Shell	j`ey: so many manually written iteration loops...
2021-05-18 13:20:44	j`ey	for (i = 0;..
2021-05-18 13:20:55	Shell	and error handling
2021-05-18 13:20:59	Shell	? spoils me :p
2021-05-18 13:21:33	amahl	agree. but the implicit type casting makes some code shorter and cleaner. of course it is also an anti-feature
2021-05-18 13:21:46	davros	some people like me can write a lot of c loops  faster than we can lookup the appropriate iterators. but overall having the abstractions available is preferable
2021-05-18 13:21:52	j`ey	yeah.. I much prefer the explicit type casting in most cases
2021-05-18 13:22:28	trevarj	davros well the entire C lang can be learned in two days
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2021-05-18 13:23:44	trevarj	at least to get hacking in it
2021-05-18 13:24:57	amahl	recently I've been typing String::from() and Duration::from_secs over and over
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2021-05-18 13:25:58	amahl	wrapping them in S() and D() makes shorter code. but also a bit obfuscated
2021-05-18 13:27:31	trevarj	i'm in the "sasdasd".to_string() club :^)
2021-05-18 13:29:28	jbg	I like `let foo: String = "sasdasd".into();`
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2021-05-18 13:35:47	nemo	amahl: I need an editor that offers little ghost detail popup to annotate the implicit types/casting.  maybe visual code does that and I just need to ditch my tmux+vim+tabnine
2021-05-18 13:36:03	davros	^^^ vscode is great
2021-05-18 13:36:18	davros	but excessive out of the box with inline type hints that change the formatting, lol
2021-05-18 13:36:33	jbg	vscode does that if you don't mind 100x the resource usage of your current setup
2021-05-18 13:37:00	jbg	other than the burning hands & low battery life vscode+rust-analyzer is really quite a lovely experience
2021-05-18 13:37:12	davros	you have an M1 mac , it should handle it :) i'm running vscode on an intel machine a few gens old
2021-05-18 13:37:23	jbg	it's just implemented incredibly poorly
2021-05-18 13:37:42	jbg	it constantly re-"indexes" and rebuilds stuff
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2021-05-18 13:37:51	jbg	literally every time I opened my workspace it reindexed it from scratch
2021-05-18 13:38:09	jbg	I reported a bug but apparently "large" workspaces are "out of scope"
2021-05-18 13:38:22	davros	maybe you have a huge memory, but i ask what you sacrifice for that
2021-05-18 13:38:27	davros	i mean huge memory in your head
2021-05-18 13:38:38	davros	i can't hope to keep all the types and library code in my head
2021-05-18 13:39:00	davros	i can figure out C loops faster than i can lookup rust. but with an IDE with dot-autocomplete to list the possibilities, i can enjoy the best of both worlds
2021-05-18 13:39:03	jbg	we don't need to go over this again, but my productivity is just fine without the rust-analyzer extension. I'm not writing completely novel code every day; like most people I'm mostly maintaining and extending stuff I already wrote
2021-05-18 13:39:40	jbg	the parts of the std I use regularly fit just fine in my head, the other parts are a very quick doc search away
2021-05-18 13:40:23	jbg	the tradeoff of my editor behaving like a piece of Microsoft software from the early 00s running on a mid-90s machine was simply not worth it
2021-05-18 13:41:09	jbg	(it sounds like I'm exaggerating, I know. rename a file in the sidebar and it displayed "Running "File Rename" participants..." for over two minutes)
2021-05-18 13:41:40	jbg	also a known bug -- in vscode -- reported almost two years ago, then triaged into no-mans-land
2021-05-18 13:42:08	nemo	jbg: the only reason I haven't switched to it, is I just do so love my tmux session, and right now the place I'm editing the code on is literally 3 hops away from my desktop
2021-05-18 13:42:21	nemo	jbg: and 1 VPN and a couple of authentications
2021-05-18 13:42:49	jbg	vscode has this server mode that is quite nice, where it will ssh into another machine and run some server process there
2021-05-18 13:43:02	nemo	buuuut I guess I could look into it. I don't have a ton of resources on my linux VM for a GUI though, it's straining with all the other things I ask it to do
2021-05-18 13:43:04	jbg	so even stuff like rust-analyzer can run on your powerful desktop/server rather than your laptop, or whatever
2021-05-18 13:43:12	jbg	the GUI can still run on your laptop
2021-05-18 13:43:22	nemo	jbg: yeah, so... there's a hard no on port forwarding back
2021-05-18 13:43:30	jbg	I found that it helped with the "rust-analyzer rebuilds stuff constantly and pegs 10 cores at 100%" since my desktop has ample cores
2021-05-18 13:43:30	nemo	jbg: I could do it, but it's against terms
2021-05-18 13:43:47	jbg	you don't need to port-forward back, if you can ssh to the server then it works
2021-05-18 13:43:55	nemo	jbg: in fact. right now I'm literally (and inefficiently) running the shell in a vmware view through remote + 2FA
2021-05-18 13:44:01	jbg	oh...
2021-05-18 13:44:03	amahl	I use a web browser pointed to docs.rs on a second monitor. basically same function as rust-analyse, no?
2021-05-18 13:44:08	jbg	amahl: exactly
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2021-05-18 13:44:11	nemo	jbg: for it to work there'd have to be a port forward 😃
2021-05-18 13:44:23	jbg	actually better, because you can read the actual docs instead of having to ask on IRC every time you guessed slightly wrong what a function does
2021-05-18 13:44:34	nemo	jbg: but... if vs code is really cool, I guess it'd be worth the pain of extra syncing
2021-05-18 13:44:41	jbg	nemo: no, SSH is a bidirectional stream, there is no need to forward a port just to transfer data
2021-05-18 13:44:59	jbg	many applications of SSH don't even start a shell (despite the name)
2021-05-18 13:45:24	nemo	jbg: well. yes... but for vscode to relay data over my ssh session, it presumably is doing (the equivalent of) -L or -R no?
2021-05-18 13:45:33	nemo	jbg: I mean, it sounds like the only sane way to do it
2021-05-18 13:45:36	jbg	no, just as scp doesn't need to forward a port
2021-05-18 13:45:42	jbg	SSH is just a pipe ultimately
2021-05-18 13:45:56	nemo	sure
2021-05-18 13:46:09	nemo	jbg: anyway. regardless external hole punching forbidden.
2021-05-18 13:46:11	jbg	any policy that forbids forwarding ports but allows SSH otherwise, rather misses the point
2021-05-18 13:46:18	nemo	jbg: it doesn't allow direct ssh
2021-05-18 13:46:25	nemo	have to jump through vmware view + 2FA
2021-05-18 13:46:30	jbg	right yeah. that sounds awful
2021-05-18 13:46:34	jbg	anyway
2021-05-18 13:46:34	nemo	jbg: but yes, I could hypothetically jump back out over ssh
2021-05-18 13:46:39	nemo	just would get in biiig trouble ☺
2021-05-18 13:46:40	jbg	the vscode SSH thing makes the rust-analyzer thing less painful
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2021-05-18 13:46:47	nemo	mm
2021-05-18 13:46:47	jbg	but it massively exacerbates the file handling bugs
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2021-05-18 13:47:04	nemo	jbg: I'll keep it in mind for less paranoid locations
2021-05-18 13:47:08	nemo	probably should start using it
2021-05-18 13:47:09	jbg	like creating or renaming files can literally hit some kind of timeout after "running File Rename participants" for 5 minutes
2021-05-18 13:47:38	jbg	I have no idea what kind of demented implementation of renaming a file can possibly do that
2021-05-18 13:47:44	nemo	jbg: they do allow ssh jumps out to the AWS enclave, but again with an explicit ban on port forwards.
2021-05-18 13:48:05	nemo	I don't get any say in the rules ☹
2021-05-18 13:48:46	jbg	yeah, you can kinda see where they're coming from. for the most part they just need to stop developers from naively creating security holes while trying to get their work done
2021-05-18 13:49:40	nemo	jbg: yeah, they also banned extending the VPN to the AWS enclave, but there's some discussion that they might change that someday. it complicated ADS auth a whole lot
2021-05-18 13:49:53	nemo	ton of account duplication and IMO more stale accounts ☺
2021-05-18 13:49:56	nemo	ah well. OT
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2021-05-18 13:56:24	electricityZZZZ	so i'm trying to understand better the merits of nonstrict/lazy languages (such as haskell) vs eager languages (such as rust)
2021-05-18 14:00:10	Shell	electricityZZZZ: tbh a bunch of Haskellers are probably more in the position of explaining why lazy evaluation is good. :)
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2021-05-18 14:00:21	electricityZZZZ	i'm told that "more programs converge" in an eager language but i don't understand what benefiti would gain from being able to manipulate potentially infinite computations
2021-05-18 14:00:29	electricityZZZZ	excuse me "more programs converge" in a lazy language
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2021-05-18 14:12:58	nitrix	Lazy evaluation usually leads to a more declarative style, where you can explain how to generate or process large amounts of data, without having actual hold of the data yet. On top of it, you can pass that "yet to be evaluated" dataset to other libraries that can compose even more transformations on it.
2021-05-18 14:13:01	Arnavion	Haskellers will also be happy to tell you how the difference of a single ' can be the difference between a list fold that works and a list fold that eats all your RAM and crashes
2021-05-18 14:13:02	davros	electricityZZZZ, lazy is another convenience/performance tradeoff i think
2021-05-18 14:13:45	davros	eager eval .. you reason about time allocation.  lazy eval^^^ declarative, and it can 'work for you' eg you dont have to write temporal aspects ("lets start buffering this file ahdn hand it to another system" )
2021-05-18 14:13:49	nitrix	Lazy evaluation also leads itself nicely to a lot of nice optimizations when only subsets of the data is being used in non-deterministic manner.
2021-05-18 14:14:08	amahl	electricityZZZZ: see tensorflow for real-world merits. it has both eager and non-eager backends. the non-eager one has so much more performance because of (reasons)
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2021-05-18 14:15:06	davros	the extreme lazy eval of haskell leads to more pointer chasing i think
2021-05-18 14:15:42	davros	rust/c++ lets you do some lazy stuff in a limited way with lazy expression templates whilst you still reason about the time and space allocation
2021-05-18 14:15:43	amahl	its not normal software in that the math runs on gpu and each + operator can become a separate gpu kernel invocation. lazy evaluation helps fuse these ops
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2021-05-18 14:44:18	xsperry	electricityZZZZ, there are pros and cons to both. here's a decent summary of the benefits of using lazy evaluation by default. http://augustss.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-points-for-lazy-evaluation-in.html
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2021-05-18 15:00:13	jacks2	hi. what library should I use for building a relatively simple web application in rust?
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2021-05-18 15:09:18	amahl	jacks2: I'm also doing a simple web app in rust. I use ureq because an old blog post recommended it https://medium.com/@shnatsel/smoke-testing-rust-http-clients-b8f2ee5db4e6
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2021-05-18 15:09:58	amahl	but thats from 2014. anyone know if other libraries have it better now?
2021-05-18 15:10:17	amahl	nvm its 2020
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2021-05-18 15:15:07	amahl	can't fathom why a rust http library would need even one unsafe block anywhere
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2021-05-18 15:26:48	jacks2	amahl, thanks!
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2021-05-18 15:59:06	Polochon_street	the only way to update a crate's readme is to publish another version, right?
2021-05-18 15:59:28	Polochon_street	like, if I want to say that a crate is deprecated in favor of another one, I should fetch it, change the readme, bump the version, and publish it again?
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2021-05-18 16:05:23	yuri6037	Is there any reason why cargo test refuses to work properly when called in root workspace but works on individual projects?
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2021-05-18 16:05:42	nitrix	It would be pretty convenient if crates were able to mark themselves as deprecated automatically on their own, but sentience isn't implemented in Cargo yet.
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2021-05-18 16:06:39	Polochon_street	I was more talking about having a way to deprecate it directly from crates.io if you're the owner :)
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2021-05-18 16:08:36	yuri6037	great crago test is broken cargo test --all works
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2021-05-18 16:09:59	GreenJello	you can have a crate in the root of the workspace and then cargo test works in the root
2021-05-18 16:10:27	GreenJello	... for that one crate
2021-05-18 16:10:46	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/commands/cargo-test.html#package-selection
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2021-05-18 16:17:05	yuri6037	I think cargo test should by default test everything just to avoid surprises in the future
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2021-05-18 16:25:25	yuri6037	I've just seen how terrible rust debugging is under VSCode. It's like far worse than CMake + VSCode. Even the Real Visual Studio or XCode can do it better in C++.... Rust is really a nightmare for debug under VSCode. I just attempted to run a debugger from CLion (the commercial IDE which costs A LOT but is free for computer science students) and well it's identical as C++. I don't know how the rust team made their Rust extension on VSCode but t
2021-05-18 16:25:27	yuri6037	hey really have to work much harder debugging wise
2021-05-18 16:26:33	yuri6037	From now on I might use VSCode for editing and linting + CLion for running until Rust fixes this debug nightmare.
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2021-05-18 16:28:02	electricityZZZZ	amahl: very interesting re non-eager tensorflow backend, are there some good references on this? does pytorch come to the same conclusion...?
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2021-05-18 16:28:18	electricityZZZZ	amahl: and are you referring to inference, training,...?
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2021-05-18 16:31:05	esc4rg0t	hi
2021-05-18 16:32:31	GreenJello	o/
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2021-05-18 16:36:09	Arnavion	There isn't a stable way to use ? on an Option inside a fn returning Result<_, MyError> type is there? (The unstable way being `impl From<NoneError> for MyError` )
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2021-05-18 16:38:35	AstrallyForged	.hg `option.ok_or(MyError)?`
2021-05-18 16:38:41	AstrallyForged	.hg which is not nearly as nice but it works
2021-05-18 16:38:43	GreenJello	you could write a trait for it and do opt.none_err()?
2021-05-18 16:39:24	Arnavion	AstrallyForged: That's ? on a Result, not an Option. You don't need to tell me that ok_or() exists :)
2021-05-18 16:39:26	GreenJello	where non_err would return Result<T, MyNoneError>
2021-05-18 16:39:36	AstrallyForged	.hg fair!
2021-05-18 16:40:15	GreenJello	yeah, I don't think there's a clean solution
2021-05-18 16:40:33	Arnavion	(I'm basically trying to be a lazy bastard and `.next().await??` my way through a TryStream-handling fn)
2021-05-18 16:41:19	Arnavion	`.try_next().await??`, rather, plus a few other things
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2021-05-18 16:45:28	j`ey	how can I get a &[u8] with fixed alignment using include_bytes?
2021-05-18 16:46:27	j`ey	nvm found https://users.rust-lang.org/t/can-i-conveniently-compile-bytes-into-a-rust-program-with-a-specific-alignment/24049
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2021-05-18 16:55:47	amahl	electricityZZZZ: both inference and training. dunno whats a good reference, maybe this? https://jonathan-hui.medium.com/tensorflow-eager-execution-v-s-graph-tf-function-6edaa870b1f1
2021-05-18 16:56:12	amahl	I haven't used pytorch at all
2021-05-18 16:56:43	yuri6037	Well by searching in the configs of JetBrains CLion I may have found a way to make detect all warnings it missed before
2021-05-18 16:57:33	yuri6037	If it turns out to be as good as VSCode well I might simply migrate to Jetbrains
2021-05-18 16:58:05	yuri6037	I think the rust vscode extension might have just lost a user
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2021-05-18 17:01:56	ciupicri	is there a way to cache what rustup downloads the first time so I can reuse in case of a reinstall? perhaps even share it on a web server
2021-05-18 17:02:49	--	_habnabit is now known as habnabit_
2021-05-18 17:03:52	nitrix	I'm checking its documentation and it says "Offline installation. rustup downloads components from the internet on demand. If you need to install Rust without access to the internet, rustup is not suitable."
2021-05-18 17:04:29	ciupicri	yeah, but it can use a mirror server
2021-05-18 17:04:30	nitrix	ciupicri, There is, though, a section explaining offline installers: https://forge.rust-lang.org/infra/other-installation-methods.html#standalone-installers
2021-05-18 17:04:55	ciupicri	I already know about the MSI installers
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2021-05-18 17:06:28	nitrix	I don't see anything about a mirror server, but it seems to respect HTTP proxies.
2021-05-18 17:06:59	nitrix	With a little rule to catch stuff from static.rust-lang.org, you might be able to get something going.
2021-05-18 17:07:07	ciupicri	https://rust-lang.github.io/rustup/environment-variables.html RUSTUP_DIST_ROO
2021-05-18 17:07:24	ciupicri	err RUSTUP_DIST_SERVER
2021-05-18 17:07:41	nitrix	Sick. Well, there you go.
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2021-05-18 17:07:56	yuri6037	Well definatly CLion seem to do better than VSCode now in Rust development. This remains as a matter of how fast is the CPU to run the IDE cause CLion is far more heavy for the CPU...
2021-05-18 17:08:06	ciupicri	yeah, but how do I populate it?
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2021-05-18 17:09:16	zebrag	Should I be concerned with that huge list of cve? https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=rust https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=rust
2021-05-18 17:09:32	zebrag	I'm only trying to install https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs
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2021-05-18 17:10:11	nitrix	ciupicri, Presumably you download all of the standalone installers in that table (they are from static.rust-lang.org) in keep them in the right location on your RUSTUP_DIST_SERVER, or you set it up as a reverse caching proxy. Squid does this out of the box afaik.
2021-05-18 17:11:06	yuri6037	zebrag: WOW that's huge list however I could not see a lot of bugs from Rust itself it all seem to come from crates
2021-05-18 17:11:39	yuri6037	I think you should be safe as long as you're not using the crates that are mentioned
2021-05-18 17:12:22	zebrag	consider adding `cargo-features = ["resolver"]` to the manifest
2021-05-18 17:12:34	zebrag	sorry wrong paste
2021-05-18 17:13:06	zebrag	yuri6037: thanks
2021-05-18 17:13:57	yuri6037	Also there's an additional issue with Zip according to it you should update your rust version make sure it's 1.52
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2021-05-18 17:18:02	zebrag	When I do `cargo build` with https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs, it complains there is no resolver in the manifest. However, on checking, there seems there is a resolver in https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs/blob/master/Cargo.toml
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2021-05-18 17:19:41	maerwald	does anyone know high-level how rustup deals with msys2 on windows? (or does it?)
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2021-05-18 17:27:04	zebrag	https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/8088#issuecomment-618758367
2021-05-18 17:27:29	yuri6037	Make sure your rust is >= 1.50
2021-05-18 17:27:46	yuri6037	resolver 2 is said from rust docs to be 1.50 min
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2021-05-18 17:28:31	zebrag	okay...
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2021-05-18 17:28:52	zebrag	since I installed cargo/rust from debian. How do I upgrade it now?
2021-05-18 17:29:08	yuri6037	Quote from rust docs: "The version "1" resolver is the original resolver that shipped with Cargo up to version 1.50, and is the default if the resolver is not specified."
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2021-05-18 17:29:15	zebrag	Because my version must be sth like 1.48
2021-05-18 17:29:42	yuri6037	oh so that's normal you need to do rustup update if I remember correctly
2021-05-18 17:29:52	zebrag	okay
2021-05-18 17:30:30	yuri6037	yeah right "rustup update" just checked
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2021-05-18 17:30:44	j`ey	that wont work if you just installed a cargo/rust package though
2021-05-18 17:30:46	yuri6037	it should be very fast if you have fiber ISP
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2021-05-18 17:31:39	yuri6037	Well in the case you have installed rust through apt/whatever the package manager of your distribution use rustup
2021-05-18 17:31:51	yuri6037	https://www.rust-lang.org/tools/install
2021-05-18 17:32:24	yuri6037	And don't forget uninstall apt package. Ubuntu rust version is horribly outdated.
2021-05-18 17:32:42	yuri6037	Trust me I've used it already
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2021-05-18 17:33:42	yuri6037	If you're on windows try the same link last time I checked they enabled direct download of installers
2021-05-18 17:34:06	yuri6037	and you also can use chocolatey they have a package for windows
2021-05-18 17:34:49	yuri6037	I recommend the MSVC version it's the easiest to install (VS already comes with MSVC)
2021-05-18 17:35:16	yuri6037	alright gtg now bye
2021-05-18 17:39:22	zebrag	thanks
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2021-05-18 18:06:58	mgot	Is there a way to resize Vec<T: Clone>? Idk what to pass as second argument to some_vec.resize(new_size, ????)
2021-05-18 18:07:17	mgot	Do I have to provide separate impl for primitive types?
2021-05-18 18:07:28	mgot	afaik they dont implement Default trait
2021-05-18 18:08:27	mgot	I want primitive types to be 0 initialized and other Ts to be Default
2021-05-18 18:09:05	mgot	I guess my question is: Do i have to provide 2 implementations?
2021-05-18 18:10:43	GreenJello	you need some way to get the zero value for the type
2021-05-18 18:10:57	GreenJello	and there isn't a way to do that with only a Clone bound
2021-05-18 18:11:18	danieldg	mgot: add a Default bound if you want that
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2021-05-18 18:11:33	mgot	Ok so I guess I will do a lightweight wrapper that will pass 0 for the types I want and share the rest of implementation
2021-05-18 18:11:50	mgot	danieldg: but It wont work with primite types
2021-05-18 18:11:53	mgot	right?
2021-05-18 18:11:57	danieldg	says who?
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2021-05-18 18:12:03	danieldg	they all implement Default
2021-05-18 18:12:04	habnabit_	mgot, u8, u16 etc all impl Default
2021-05-18 18:12:06	mgot	idk, actually
2021-05-18 18:12:09	habnabit_	mgot, (.. and return 0)
2021-05-18 18:12:09	mgot	oh
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2021-05-18 18:12:35	mgot	danieldg: so Default for primitives is 0?
2021-05-18 18:13:08	habnabit_	yes
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2021-05-18 18:30:00	mgot	yay it works, thanks
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2021-05-18 18:47:04	UndeadLeech	Is anyone aware of issues with rustup for freebsd? For some reason it seems to stall during the install process.
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2021-05-18 19:32:01	EliDupree	So uh... is it a soundness hole if I can use safe code to *call a method of a type outside the lifetime of the type*, if it's a method that doesn't take `self`?
2021-05-18 19:32:26	EliDupree	Or does the fact that it doesn't take an actual *value* of the type mean it's fine?
2021-05-18 19:33:37	danieldg	it's unsafe because that function is allowed to produce values of type Self
2021-05-18 19:34:40	danieldg	usually you get around this by calling it on Foo<'static>
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2021-05-18 19:36:43	EliDupree	do you happen to have an example of how would it produce one? I've got a code example but I can only produce a Self by pulling a 'static thing out of a literal
2021-05-18 19:36:57	EliDupree	I'd like to demonstrate actually causing a memory error if I can
2021-05-18 19:43:50	danieldg	I think you'd need unsafe code elsewhere to actually conjure the bad reference, but it'd be unsafe code that is safe if not for your invocation
2021-05-18 19:44:17	EliDupree	okay, that makes sense
2021-05-18 19:44:27	danieldg	maybe try adapting some of the examples of may_dangle unsafety
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2021-05-18 20:20:29	lovesegfault	can I #[inline] a closure?
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2021-05-18 20:20:50	lovesegfault	like `let mut foo = |bar| { /* something */ }`?
2021-05-18 20:21:07	lovesegfault	everywhere I try to shove `#[inline]` it seems to complain
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2021-05-18 20:26:12	danieldg	lovesegfault: closures are basically always inlined
2021-05-18 20:26:47	lovesegfault	danieldg: what's the exception
2021-05-18 20:26:49	lovesegfault	*?
2021-05-18 20:26:59	danieldg	dyn Fn*
2021-05-18 20:27:37	lovesegfault	got it, I'll leave it be then :)
2021-05-18 20:27:39	lovesegfault	thx!
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2021-05-18 20:43:07	Flaghacker	How do I only depend on the windows crate when my crate is actually being compiled for windows? Should I use [target.'cfg(windows)'.dependencies] and [target.'cfg(windows)'.build-dependencies]? It's really strange that they don't say that in the windows crate docs.
2021-05-18 20:43:25	Flaghacker	I already have #[cfg(windows)] in my code everywhere but it turns out that was not enough.
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2021-05-18 21:02:08	EliDupree	danieldg: thanks for the feedback - I've just reported the issue I was running into! https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/85456
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2021-05-18 21:09:34	danieldg	I guess it's possible this is safe and it's another hazard unsafe code needs to be aware of (just because someone hands you a type, doesn't mean it is valid...)
2021-05-18 21:10:38	danieldg	constructing an Option<&'outofscope i32> via None is certainly doable
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2021-05-18 21:16:43	EliDupree	danieldg: I don't know a way to do that with Option
2021-05-18 21:16:57	EliDupree	It doesn't matter that you can write None if you can't even express the type of the None
2021-05-18 21:17:14	danieldg	None::<T>
2021-05-18 21:17:47	EliDupree	but you can't write None::<&'a i32> if you don't have 'a
2021-05-18 21:18:21	danieldg	but query has 'a
2021-05-18 21:18:47	EliDupree	oh, you meant as a way to exploit my bug
2021-05-18 21:18:54	danieldg	yes
2021-05-18 21:19:10	EliDupree	I thought you were saying that as like "it might be benign because you can do this anyway"
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2021-05-18 21:27:47	danieldg	EliDupree: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=a1e12668e500574985d967912a1c5c87 shows actually building a struct
2021-05-18 21:29:42	EliDupree	couldn't you more simply just say `Self(&4)`?
2021-05-18 21:30:22	danieldg	fine, take all my fun away
2021-05-18 21:30:39	EliDupree	my apologies, your way does look more fun :P
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2021-05-19 01:47:12	Subsentient	So I see that today's nightly ruined the Try trait.
2021-05-19 01:47:48	Subsentient	So I'm having to add hundreds of map_err() around a bunch of GStreamer errors that the code doesn't care about and used to just bail out of with a nice question mark.
2021-05-19 01:48:30	Subsentient	FromResidual is poorly documented and apparently lacks the same impls to allow implicit conversion.
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2021-05-19 01:50:55	 *	rk4 quietly stables in the corner
2021-05-19 01:50:58	Subsentient	I had a nice little type called ErrorEater that would swallow whatever you threw at it and convert it to a string. So much for that.
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2021-05-19 01:51:47	Subsentient	rk4: I'd prefer to be on stable, but stable lacks too many critical features, such as asm!() and many control flow enhancements that Rust is quite painful to use without.
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2021-05-19 01:54:49	 *	Subsentient wonders why he seems to be the only one that gets furious with Rust sometimes
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2021-05-19 02:01:29	Mutabah	Looking at the docs, Try was just updated - not ruined
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2021-05-19 02:02:53	Subsentient	Mutabah: It is no longer possible to convert a None to an Err with the question mark operator.
2021-05-19 02:03:38	Subsentient	Mutabah: GStreamer's Rust API has a lot of ungodly nested Result<Option<Option<Result<Option<Result<Result etc return values. That ability was a godsend.
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2021-05-19 02:04:05	Subsentient	using map_err or ok_or_else makes that code into a homemade bomb.
2021-05-19 02:04:33	Mutabah	Some extension traits could help... as could closure trickery to collapse the options
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2021-05-19 02:06:43	Subsentient	Sigh. I really don't like the angry side of me Rust brings out. I don't understand why I'm the only one who reacts this way to some of this stuff. It's usually hard to piss me off, but Rust keeps hitting all my buttons lately.
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2021-05-19 02:07:59	Mutabah	Might be worth commenting on (or reading) the tracking issue to see if the None->Err usecase is covered?
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2021-05-19 02:10:13	Arnavion	IIRC NoneError was never meant to exist. It only existed because Try v1 required converting to Result
2021-05-19 02:12:06	Subsentient	Well as it stands it's no longer possible to use the question mark operator on an Option.
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2021-05-19 02:12:20	Arnavion	Sure it is, if the function returns Option
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2021-05-19 02:12:41	Subsentient	None of them do.
2021-05-19 02:12:55	Arnavion	That's your problem
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2021-05-19 02:15:12	Arnavion	(Yes, I remembered correctly:   https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/46871#issuecomment-618186642   )
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2021-05-19 02:19:18	Subsentient	Sometimes I really wish Rust allowed the standard library to be monkey patched. It would allow working around so many of these little limitations.
2021-05-19 02:19:44	Arnavion	-Z build-std
2021-05-19 02:19:58	Mutabah	Doesn't allow you to substitute source (last I checked?)
2021-05-19 02:20:20	Arnavion	Sure it does. It's not like it verifies hashes or anything. It'll use whatever it finds
2021-05-19 02:20:50	Mutabah	poiiint
2021-05-19 02:21:22	Subsentient	Knowing Rust, I'm surprised it doesn't verify hashes. That's an even fuglier workaround than the ones I was using, but thanks, good to know it's possible.
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2021-05-19 04:29:27	medwards	tomaw: what is your quit message referring to?
2021-05-19 04:33:31	thement	https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409
2021-05-19 04:33:46	thement	at least that's what I've heard
2021-05-19 04:37:11	j`ey	you can join #freenode to read me
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2021-05-19 04:49:41	amahl	I've been using std Instant to wait until a timestamp has expired. today I wanted to convert the timestamp to/from string. apparently I need chrono. but I can't find a method to convert Instant to any chrono object?
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2021-05-19 04:51:06	amahl	do I need to ditch the half assed std API and rewrite everything to use only chrono?
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2021-05-19 04:53:01	bertptrs	probably, the std::time API is pretty rubbish right now, but IIRC it is possible to convert between the two by going through SystemTime
2021-05-19 04:53:53	bertptrs	oh, you actually can't. From the docs of Instant: "Opaque and useful only with Duration."
2021-05-19 04:55:12	Arnavion	I don't think chrono has an equivalent of Instant, does it?
2021-05-19 04:56:08	bertptrs	don't think so, but the only use for instant is performance measurement anyway
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2021-05-19 04:58:06	amahl	if you can't write it to a file and make a statistic etc... how do you measure performance then? seems like Instant is only useful for checking if an exact amount of time has passed or not
2021-05-19 04:59:13	bertptrs	You can get the Duration between two Instants. Instant is intended to be a performance clock, purely monotonic and steady but unrelated to any actual time
2021-05-19 04:59:25	vorner	Instant is useful if you subtract two instants from each other to get a Duration. You can wait until an Instant, etc.
2021-05-19 04:59:39	amahl	ah right
2021-05-19 04:59:42	Arnavion	Yes, the calculation needs to be done by the same process. Only the result can be serialized
2021-05-19 04:59:44	vorner	So yes, it's useful only for measuring time elapsed, but the time in Instant is in no way „absolute“
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2021-05-19 05:00:17	vorner	It may be something like number of seconds since the start of the program or maybe from the boot of the OS or something other unspecified.
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2021-05-19 05:33:47	bertptrs	Similar to System.nanoTime() in Java, which is guaranteed to be an offset in nanoseconds from some arbitrary time, but no guarantees are made for what that time is
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2021-05-19 08:04:19	kline	https://www.kline.sh/
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2021-05-19 08:09:52	jbg	so, uh, if freenode implodes, where do y'all hang out?
2021-05-19 08:09:59	Mateon1	^
2021-05-19 08:10:04	Mateon1	I don't find the discourse forums acceptable
2021-05-19 08:10:08	jbg	and please don't say discord
2021-05-19 08:10:13	j`ey	diskord
2021-05-19 08:10:18	osse	libera.chat i guess
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2021-05-19 08:10:53	jbg	oh great, this is freenode-but-not-freenode right?
2021-05-19 08:10:55	jbg	that seems fine
2021-05-19 08:11:07	osse	yeah
2021-05-19 08:11:10	osse	it's not up yet, though
2021-05-19 08:11:21	osse	some might move to oftc i think
2021-05-19 08:11:27	kline	libera.chat is open btw
2021-05-19 08:11:31	jbg	yeah, oftc also seems solid
2021-05-19 08:11:34	jbg	kline: where's the donate button?
2021-05-19 08:11:44	habnabit_	kline, i can't connect to it
2021-05-19 08:11:46	adder`	it's not, it says 'bad password'
2021-05-19 08:11:49	AstrallyForged	.hg fedi, Matrix, OFTC, Interlinked
2021-05-19 08:11:56	osse	ohh, it said bad password earlier, but works now
2021-05-19 08:11:58	kline	we're getting client connect messages
2021-05-19 08:12:00	AstrallyForged	.hg find us in OFTC/#rust
2021-05-19 08:12:03	kline	so its definitely open
2021-05-19 08:12:12	kline	it hasnt been until now, sorry
2021-05-19 08:12:27	habnabit_	ok until literally this moment
2021-05-19 08:12:30	habnabit_	i tried minutes ago
2021-05-19 08:14:11	Mateon1	I'm fine with OFTC, efnet, slashnet. Literally never heard of libera before, so I'm a bit wary
2021-05-19 08:14:12	adder`	kline, are services down?
2021-05-19 08:14:45	trevarj	who is andrew lee, in brief? just a random dude who wants to sell some data?
2021-05-19 08:14:57	j`ey	Mateon1: that's just cos liberea *just* started
2021-05-19 08:14:58	kline	adder`, where?
2021-05-19 08:15:02	adder`	kline, on libera
2021-05-19 08:15:11	adder`	i can't register the nick
2021-05-19 08:15:13	kline	habnabit_, yeah, bad luck :(
2021-05-19 08:15:15	kline	adder`, #libera
2021-05-19 08:15:16	j`ey	adder`: yes
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2021-05-19 08:15:23	kline	i cant provide libera support on this network
2021-05-19 08:15:24	kline	thanks lawyers
2021-05-19 08:15:27	jbg	Mateon1: libera appears to be the former freenode volunteers creating a proposed successor network. is that about right kline?
2021-05-19 08:15:36	kline	jbg, https://kline.sh
2021-05-19 08:15:42	jbg	successor might not be a word that lawyers like I guess
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2021-05-19 08:15:58	jbg	ty
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2021-05-19 08:18:08	ap5	Are we moving to libera?
2021-05-19 08:18:33	bertptrs	This is an unoffical channel. There's no real "we"
2021-05-19 08:18:43	bertptrs	But I'm coinsidering it personally
2021-05-19 08:19:02	ap5	Me as well
2021-05-19 08:19:28	ap5	I am on ##csharp as well. The bosses there are looking into moving.
2021-05-19 08:20:13	jbg	come on over. there's three of us there already
2021-05-19 08:20:29	ap5	I will :D
2021-05-19 08:20:30	daemon	j`ey, are you on libera with the same nickname?
2021-05-19 08:20:30	bertptrs	I'll convince my bouncer later
2021-05-19 08:20:35	daemon	jbg, also ^
2021-05-19 08:20:41	jbg	yes
2021-05-19 08:20:44	ap5	I need to point my bouncer
2021-05-19 08:20:47	j`ey	ayes
2021-05-19 08:20:52	jbg	I guess at some point there will be services over there
2021-05-19 08:21:01	jbg	rather than just channels being owned by whomever gets them first
2021-05-19 08:21:35	erikh	I started a small setup over at irc.hugops.org if anyone just wants to chat. I'm not looking to replace freenode, but it's not going away.
2021-05-19 08:21:59	erikh	it has services and whatnot
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2021-05-19 08:22:30	erikh	(been looking into this for a while, so half the work was already done)
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2021-05-19 08:23:36	--	Mode ##rust [+o ladyfriday] by ChanServ
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2021-05-19 08:27:09	 *	xkr47 is now both on ##rust and #rust on libera.chat
2021-05-19 08:27:15	@ladyfriday	(I'm not planning on doing anything operatory, it just seems like a sensible thing to do just in case... feel free to ping me if things kick off)
2021-05-19 08:28:25	 *	bertptrs has joined the libera-resistance as well
2021-05-19 08:28:43	habnabit_	so any ##rust op wanna claim ops on libera
2021-05-19 08:28:49	<--	jpds (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-19 08:29:07	daemon	13:28, -ChanServ- The #rust namespace is registered to the rust project, so only authorized contacts may register new channels.
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2021-05-19 08:29:12	daemon	^ its a protected space
2021-05-19 08:29:24	daemon	so I assume it will need staff to help out :)
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2021-05-19 08:29:50	gchristensen	ladyfriday: not sure if you have a contact to libera staff, but I can help with introductions if you need
2021-05-19 08:30:15	gchristensen	they've reserved some channel namespaces for projects
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2021-05-19 08:32:49	@ladyfriday	this is an unofficial channel, so I imagine we'd have no claim to #rust on libera chat
2021-05-19 08:33:05	habnabit_	i did mean on ##rust there too
2021-05-19 08:33:20	phy1729	ladyfriday: policies are different there
2021-05-19 08:33:38	phy1729	https://libera.chat/chanreg
2021-05-19 08:33:49	@ladyfriday	there's some overlap between the ops here and the mods on reddit, that's about it though
2021-05-19 08:34:26	jbg	it just says "project or community", and we are clearly a community, so it seems fine to be #rust over there?
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2021-05-19 08:36:22	thement	anyway, for anyone who feels that they are not even that much into rust, but they want to idle somewhere, there's also ###rust
2021-05-19 08:36:42	trevarj	triple #???
2021-05-19 08:36:47	trevarj	what about ####rust?
2021-05-19 08:36:55	habnabit_	#r"rust"
2021-05-19 08:37:11	thement	trevarj: unofficial-unofficial
2021-05-19 08:37:25	trevarj	i feel liberated already
2021-05-19 08:37:32	@ladyfriday	I've joined both channels over there, seems to be a bit of a wild-west right now though
2021-05-19 08:37:47	thement	never waste a good crisis
2021-05-19 08:37:49	@ladyfriday	and I can't register a nick so can't do channel operator stuff anyway
2021-05-19 08:38:20	trevarj	ladyfriday it seems hit or miss with the nickreg
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2021-05-19 09:00:30	webmind	is this place moving?
2021-05-19 09:00:57	--	ThatOtherGuy is now known as patches
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2021-05-19 09:01:23	wizzwizz4	webmind: It seems so, though that might not happen immediately.
2021-05-19 09:01:26	--	patches is now known as LogicAside
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2021-05-19 09:05:02	@ladyfriday	habnabit_: I am mrmonday over on libera
2021-05-19 09:05:13	habnabit_	ladyfriday, 👌
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2021-05-19 09:18:27	davros	before i make an RFC, does this exist?
2021-05-19 09:18:28	-->	cdown (~cdown@163.114.131.1) has joined ##rust
2021-05-19 09:18:52	davros	"an intrinsic type that is the minimum of usize, u32;  and another that is the minimum of isize, i32"
2021-05-19 09:19:50	davros	(ie losslessly coercible to usize, guaranteed, even if usize = u16 on some microcontroller/ai accelerator core)
2021-05-19 09:20:16	j`ey	you could do that with a crate too I think
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2021-05-19 09:20:33	davros	#[] config it per platform?
2021-05-19 09:20:40	@ladyfriday	they might already exist in libc
2021-05-19 09:20:45	j`ey	you can use target_pointer_width
2021-05-19 09:20:49	davros	you know where i'm going with this dont you
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2021-05-19 09:21:07	osa1	do we have something like `cargo fix` but for clippy lints?
2021-05-19 09:21:12	@ladyfriday	has anyone else lagged out on libera, or just me?
2021-05-19 09:21:15	davros	(ii) add stdlib impl of Vec::index for "this type" (although .len() will always return usize)
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2021-05-19 09:21:41	averell	i timed out as well
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2021-05-19 09:22:09	davros	i'm not even sure what the official name for this in libc would be.. i've seen a alot of abuse of the default names heh
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2021-05-19 09:22:25	phy1729	ladyfriday: I'm lagging
2021-05-19 09:22:27	@ladyfriday	classic irc drama
2021-05-19 09:22:44	davros	anyway it needs to be in the core /stdlib because the full RFC is *and make Vec<> impl indexing for it*
2021-05-19 09:23:18	davros	for completeness one might want the 16 bit version of it aswell
2021-05-19 09:23:23	trevarj	osa1 isn't it cargo fix --clippy ?
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2021-05-19 09:23:34	trevarj	never worked for me so i gave up on it
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2021-05-19 09:25:00	@ladyfriday	davros: doesn't look like they're there, I was looking for the types described here: https://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstdint/
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2021-05-19 09:25:41	j`ey	https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/1842
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2021-05-19 09:26:43	@ladyfriday	having reread what you said, it seems I misread, and that's not what you want anyway
2021-05-19 09:26:52	@ladyfriday	so safe to ignore me ;)
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2021-05-19 09:30:46	osa1	trevarj: that says "Found argument '--clippy' which wasn't expected, or isn't valid in this context"
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2021-05-19 09:31:29	bertptrs	cargo clippy --fix, but that's nightly-only I think
2021-05-19 09:31:54	trevarj	cargo clippy --fix -Z unstable-options
2021-05-19 09:32:13	j`ey	davros: also read https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/allowing-slice-indexing-with-non-usize-integer-types/13672/12
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2021-05-19 09:45:11	sohmestra	So, I've been struggling with the following class of issue, where I'm passing around an object that requires needs &mut on itself in order to do anything useful..
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2021-05-19 09:45:13	sohmestra	https://dpaste.org/4FW7
2021-05-19 09:45:24	sohmestra	https://gist.github.com/rust-play/b5c67eac98110f50e871307f479c5bcf
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2021-05-19 09:45:39	j`ey	shokohsc68: line 25 is useful
2021-05-19 09:45:39	sohmestra	how do I deal with objects that require &mut Self?
2021-05-19 09:45:41	j`ey	in your error
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2021-05-19 09:46:35	sohmestra	I'm sure I'm just approaching it all wrong...I'm just not sure what the right thing is.
2021-05-19 09:47:20	j`ey	change msg_date to &mut self
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2021-05-19 09:49:46	sohmestra	in this case, it's being handed a &MailEntry by vec.sort_unstable_by()
2021-05-19 09:49:56	sohmestra	so, I don't think I can just make that mutable
2021-05-19 09:49:59	sohmestra	right?
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2021-05-19 09:50:35	sohmestra	since I'm starting with a shared reference
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2021-05-19 09:50:50	davros	j`ey, some good points in the OP that sometimes the *user coercion* would cause bugs (so indexing directly on the types then boundschecking gets done on the users value directly)  would help. then it gets rejected anyway
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2021-05-19 09:51:40	davros	so i think the plan is "annoy enough people with it, such that you have to bribe the foundation to fix it"
2021-05-19 09:51:42	j`ey	sohmestra: correct, then you probably dont want to, or cant use sort_unstable_by
2021-05-19 09:51:50	j`ey	lol foundation
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2021-05-19 09:53:04	sohmestra	j`ey: not sure I can use any vec sort method then. So, I guess, I need to consume the vec, and build a new one?
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2021-05-19 09:53:30	j`ey	sohmestra: why do you want to sort and mutate at the same time?
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2021-05-19 09:55:34	sohmestra	j`ey: just using the sort methods on vec. I guess I assumed that would be preferable, but perhaps it's just not possible in this scenario.
2021-05-19 09:56:03	j`ey	sohmestra: dont feel that answered the q
2021-05-19 09:56:10	j`ey	why are you mutating while trying to sort?
2021-05-19 09:56:21	sohmestra	oh, you mean MailEntry?
2021-05-19 09:56:42	sohmestra	because that's how the methods work. when I access a header on the MailEntry, it requires &mut Self
2021-05-19 09:56:53	sohmestra	on MailEntry
2021-05-19 09:57:29	sohmestra	Not sure why that's required, exactly
2021-05-19 09:58:26	sohmestra	kinda like reading a file updates an internal file position
2021-05-19 09:58:35	sohmestra	in fact, it likely wraps a file
2021-05-19 09:58:45	j`ey	maybe you need to read the headers into a vec first or something
2021-05-19 09:58:46	sohmestra	so maybe that's it
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2021-05-19 10:01:18	jbg	this is maildir::MailEntry ?
2021-05-19 10:01:24	sohmestra	yeah
2021-05-19 10:01:26	j`ey	i guessed so
2021-05-19 10:01:32	jbg	it looks like it just requires &mut self because it lazily loads the file
2021-05-19 10:01:49	jbg	which is unfortunate really, it would be better to hide that detail
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2021-05-19 10:02:05	j`ey	you mean with interiour mutability?
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2021-05-19 10:02:26	sohmestra	Maybe I should look harder at available Maildir libraries
2021-05-19 10:02:27	jbg	yeah
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2021-05-19 10:02:56	jbg	the fact that it lazily loads the file is an implementation detail; logically the headers() fn doesn't actually mutate the MailEntry
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2021-05-19 10:03:27	jbg	you could build a map of id => headers and then sort based on that, though
2021-05-19 10:04:01	twiclo	So how many of you are moving to libera.chat?
2021-05-19 10:04:40	osse	no need to
2021-05-19 10:04:51	osse	no need to *move* just yet.  IRC personas implement Copy
2021-05-19 10:05:51	sohmestra	jbg: yeah I think that's what I probably have to do.
2021-05-19 10:05:55	sohmestra	thanks
2021-05-19 10:06:01	wizzwizz4	osse: And Sync – though not Send.
2021-05-19 10:06:20	twiclo	I mean I've always operated under the knowledge that this is all 100% public so what can a different company do that is worse than that?
2021-05-19 10:06:34	twiclo	iirc I've heard some shady stuff about PIA though
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2021-05-19 10:09:13	osse	i'm struggling to come up with any financial motive.
2021-05-19 10:09:16	osse	ad-bots?
2021-05-19 10:10:05	wizzwizz4	twiclo: It's not PIA (any more), fortunately.
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2021-05-19 10:11:27	twiclo	osse well they have our email addresses and the things talked about in IRC might be interesting to some advertisers/entities
2021-05-19 10:11:56	trevarj	wouldn't that be illegal for all the EU users?
2021-05-19 10:12:02	twiclo	https://www.kline.sh/
2021-05-19 10:12:13	twiclo	Andrew Lee founded PIA
2021-05-19 10:12:17	kline	hi
2021-05-19 10:12:29	osse	is a list of email addresses really worth that much?
2021-05-19 10:12:37	twiclo	trevarj I'm not sure. I suppose they could put some agreement in for nick registration
2021-05-19 10:13:04	twiclo	osse that's kinda my stance. Some are acting like this is the end of freenode
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2021-05-19 10:14:01	osse	Though I can understand the desire to burn it all to the ground "just because"
2021-05-19 10:14:05	osse	scorched earth-ish
2021-05-19 10:15:00	Shell	I mean, I'm not sticking around on an IRC network that got taken over by someone willing to do something as shady as this?
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2021-05-19 10:16:11	nemo	Shell: the whole thing seems very bad
2021-05-19 10:16:14	Shell	if you read what the guy's said the entire thing reads like one of the horrifying business takeover scams, where the scammer introduces /just/ enough doubt that it'd take years through the legal system to get it sorted, even if he has no right to it at all.
2021-05-19 10:16:16	twiclo	Shell but what shady thing is he doing?
2021-05-19 10:16:20	nemo	Shell: unfortunately libra is clearly still having issues.
2021-05-19 10:16:26	twiclo	Someone tell me what's bad about it. I don't really get it
2021-05-19 10:16:31	nemo	Shell: I'm busy reducing my freenode channel list so I can transition
2021-05-19 10:16:34	twiclo	Oh you just did
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2021-05-19 10:17:09	nemo	hmmm I usually just idle in this one, so I guess I'll skip town here too. bye!
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2021-05-19 10:17:32	twiclo	Do we have any metrics on the rust channel? Has it been growing? I understand it's one of the biggest on freenode
2021-05-19 10:17:47	[code]	wow ya'll are talking about it too. i don't think i've ever seen ##rust go off topic
2021-05-19 10:18:44	[code]	twiclo: it's definitely less active than something like ##linux
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2021-05-19 10:21:51	osse	twiclo: apparently he's tried to install his own loyal people as admins
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2021-05-19 10:23:32	twiclo	I guess that's fishy but what is his plan once these admins are installed? What's the end goal?
2021-05-19 10:26:38	osse	No idea
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2021-05-19 10:27:19	osse	But with fishy things happening it's also a risk to just wait until the plan reveals itself.
2021-05-19 10:27:23	twiclo	https://twitter.com/ariadneconill/status/1393006479700078595
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2021-05-19 10:29:49	webmind	I would call it beyond fishy
2021-05-19 10:30:07	[code]	impending doom
2021-05-19 10:30:43	[code]	or at least a bad storm. a kerfuffle?
2021-05-19 10:32:18	Shikadi	ladyfriday: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409/ in case you're not aware
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2021-05-19 10:33:22	twiclo	Oh I thought for a second that'd be some Rust. Was about to ask you to take that to an off-topic channel
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2021-05-19 11:25:30	jbg	meh. I'll idle on both for now but I'll keep my secret world domination plan discussion for libera.chat:##rust
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2021-05-19 11:27:37	kiwiirc	imagine using a .sh script to bootstrap your env lol rust fags dont care about security yikes
2021-05-19 11:27:48	kiwiirc	no wonder google M$ and kikebook love it
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2021-05-19 11:44:44	habnabit_	jegus
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2021-05-19 11:58:38	twiclo	What sh script?
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2021-05-19 12:00:28	fkaa	https://sh.rustup.rs
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2021-05-19 14:23:01	davros	anyone here used rust image lib?
2021-05-19 14:23:13	davros	i'm trying to get a slice of *pixels* from an ImageBuffer
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2021-05-19 14:24:06	davros	ImageBuffer<Pixel,Container>  .. i can't find somethin in the docs that just gives &[Pixel]
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2021-05-19 14:25:52	wizzwizz4	davros: `.image_slice()`?
2021-05-19 14:27:16	davros	ive found &[P::Subpixel]  (silly name for a component or channel type)
2021-05-19 14:27:36	davros	i'm about to just copy the wretched thing out
2021-05-19 14:27:55	davros	there is a pixel iterator
2021-05-19 14:28:02	wizzwizz4	I always do .into_rgba().into_flat_samples().image_slice()?.
2021-05-19 14:28:26	wizzwizz4	Granted, that gives you bytes I think.
2021-05-19 14:30:17	davros	to be fair bytes, raw channel type is usually useful
2021-05-19 14:30:23	davros	and there is a pixel iterator
2021-05-19 14:30:52	wizzwizz4	I don't really like the image crate.
2021-05-19 14:31:03	wizzwizz4	I couldn't do without it, but there's too much ownership and copying.
2021-05-19 14:31:21	davros	they really neeed to make a minimum crate name length
2021-05-19 14:31:37	davros	then only let crates get obvious names after community approval over time (maturation)
2021-05-19 14:31:57	davros	all the obvious names are taken by crates with early experimental designs
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2021-05-19 14:32:19	davros	the image crate has been useful , to be fair
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2021-05-19 14:54:39	@ladyfriday	names
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2021-05-19 15:09:35	davros	can a Path be converted to a String ?
2021-05-19 15:10:04	danieldg	yes, but that's lossy
2021-05-19 15:10:22	voker57	.to_str().to_string()
2021-05-19 15:10:31	voker57	well, and unwrap
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2021-05-19 15:17:13	AstrallyForged	.hg That one's fallible, not lossy
2021-05-19 15:17:54	AstrallyForged	.hg The lossy way is `.to_string_lossy().into_owned()`
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2021-05-19 15:40:44	twiclo	Can I make an existing struct a part of a new struct?
2021-05-19 15:41:02	j`ey	twiclo: just make it a member of the other struct
2021-05-19 15:41:10	j`ey	struct A { .. } struct B { a: A }
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2021-05-19 15:49:51	ska	What debugger is recommended for Linux dev?
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2021-05-19 15:50:46	bertptrs	gdb/lldb
2021-05-19 15:51:03	bertptrs	both work reasonably well with a good prettifier attached
2021-05-19 15:51:57	ska	bertptrs: Are the docs correct that LLDB only works with MacOS?
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2021-05-19 15:52:17	bertptrs	Don't think so?
2021-05-19 15:52:48	bertptrs	I've used it on Linux w/ CLion. I switched employers since so I no longer have a license to check
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2021-05-19 16:13:46	magbo	Is #rust switching to irc.libera.chat? Probably topic-worthy either way.
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2021-05-19 16:14:16	bertptrs	there is a channel there with some people from here
2021-05-19 16:14:47	bertptrs	two actually because of course
2021-05-19 16:15:45	phy1729	iirc libera #rust forwards to ##rust
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2021-05-19 16:16:43	oz	well there are other IRC networks worthy of consideration to move off freenode. OFTC has a nice governance structure iirc
2021-05-19 16:17:08	bertptrs	phy1729: I'm in both, so it might not?
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2021-05-19 16:17:39	bertptrs	this is not an official channel either way so moving somewhere officially would be silly
2021-05-19 16:17:52	wizzwizz4	Looks like ⅕ of the users here have gone to Libera's ##rust.
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2021-05-19 16:18:29	phy1729	bertptrs: you may have joined before the +f. Check /mode
2021-05-19 16:18:50	wizzwizz4	phy1729: No, doesn't redirect for me either.
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2021-05-19 16:19:33	bertptrs	no +f in the mode
2021-05-19 16:19:46	Freaky	heh, 51 in #rust, 75 in ##rust
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2021-05-19 16:20:48	Cymew	I have moved with some of my other channels to Libra, and are on ##rust there.
2021-05-19 16:21:01	twiclo	Isn't it libera?
2021-05-19 16:21:03	Cymew	s/libera/
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2021-05-19 16:24:56	twiclo	So I'm in ##rust on freenode and #rust on libera. How do I specify which rust I want to join next time I open weechat?
2021-05-19 16:25:01	twiclo	If I'm connected to both servers
2021-05-19 16:25:03	wizzwizz4	ladyfriday: Is there a plan to remove the +, so people who deleted their NickServ entries can still visit here?
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2021-05-19 16:25:30	wizzwizz4	twiclo: /fset then enter ##rust in the correct server's autojoin list.
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2021-05-19 16:37:07	@ladyfriday	wizzwizz4: presumably anyone who has dropped their nick here has moved to libera chat, so I don't think it's too big of a deal
2021-05-19 16:37:21	@ladyfriday	twiclo: there's a ##rust on libera which is more active, fyi
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2021-05-19 16:41:59	mefistofeles	ladyfriday: more active? Really?
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2021-05-19 16:42:40	j`ey	more active than #rust on libera
2021-05-19 16:42:48	mefistofeles	oh
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2021-05-19 16:43:07	@ladyfriday	it's hard to keep track, libera has been super unstable all day :3
2021-05-19 16:43:58	@ladyfriday	I'll see about poking staff so we can attempt to consolidate the channels over there again tomorrow once things have (hopefully) settled a bit
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2021-05-19 16:44:19	Arnavion	Does the #-only-for-official rule not apply to libera then?
2021-05-19 16:44:56	@ladyfriday	Arnavion: https://libera.chat/chanreg it does, to a differing extent
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2021-05-19 16:45:35	Arnavion	Ah
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2021-05-19 17:07:04	twiclo	Well this is great. Now I have 3 channels of people to spam my questions at
2021-05-19 17:07:37	<--	bitwinery (~bitwinery@2601:1c2:5100:19d2:dc6c:b2dc:31f4:72b1) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-19 17:08:33	j`ey	twiclo: all the same people in them :P
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2021-05-19 17:09:08	twiclo	https://p.twil.cx/ruk.rs
2021-05-19 17:09:14	twiclo	Bad error has me confused
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2021-05-19 17:17:17	@ladyfriday	twiclo: problem "solved" now, only two channels left
2021-05-19 17:17:20	@ladyfriday	##rust on both networks
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2021-05-19 18:06:53	twiclo	Alright so I have a backend written with actix. It calls out to functions in a way that you can see in the paste above. It passes in IDs in a web::Path<u64> type. The function I'm working with is also in that paste (ignore the error). I need to call this function from somewhere else and I'm not sure how to pass in the ID
2021-05-19 18:07:30	j`ey	dunno how, but the obvious solution is to extract that to a function that takes a u64?
2021-05-19 18:07:55	twiclo	Not sure what you mean. You want me to break this function into two>
2021-05-19 18:07:59	twiclo	*?
2021-05-19 18:08:20	j`ey	yes
2021-05-19 18:09:18	heftig[m]	or you could just construct the Path
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2021-05-19 18:09:38	heftig[m]	`web::Path(123u64)` should work
2021-05-19 18:09:47	j`ey	oh it's that simple heh
2021-05-19 18:10:02	heftig[m]	yeah. `pub struct Path<T>(pub T);`
2021-05-19 18:10:31	j`ey	Path sounded more complex!
2021-05-19 18:10:44	GreenJello	it is, but that's all in the traits
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2021-05-19 18:20:38	twiclo	Alright so this function returns an HttpResponse and I just need to get the body from it and I am having a hell of a time
2021-05-19 18:20:55	twiclo	*buffer_tubes::buffer_meta(db, web::Path::<u64>(b.buffer_tube_id)).await?.body().Body
2021-05-19 18:21:06	twiclo	Apparently Body doesn't exist on this even though that's what I see in the docs
2021-05-19 18:21:09	twiclo	https://docs.rs/actix-web/3.3.2/actix_web/dev/enum.ResponseBody.html
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2021-05-19 18:58:37	schnippi	Does anyone have an explanation for why the borrow checker is complaining here? My guess is that the reference calculated by arr.get() in line 17 is not valid due to the arr.iter_mut() in line 13. But the iter_mut() does not change the number of elements in arr, so I suppose the references to the elements in arr should be still valid?
2021-05-19 18:58:42	schnippi	https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=01b7a8c358ef0639a630160267387cfc
2021-05-19 19:00:18	danieldg	schnippi: look at the type of que
2021-05-19 19:00:59	danieldg	it holds refs to arr, so it's not valid to get exclusive access to arr while they are alive
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2021-05-19 19:11:00	schnippi	danieldg: You mean that in the first iteration of the outer loop I am holding an immutable ref to arr[2] and in the next iteration I am trying to attain a mutable ref to arr[2] via arr.iter_mut()/the inner loop?
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2021-05-19 19:16:51	mattfly	Maybe someone can help me: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67595021/pyo3-the-trait-pyclass-is-not-implemented-for-pypyany
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2021-05-19 19:30:41	danieldg	schnippi: yep
2021-05-19 19:30:57	danieldg	schnippi: also, simpler, iter_mut grabs a mutable ref to the whole vector
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2021-05-19 19:41:26	schnippi	danieldg: I see. That makes sense :)
2021-05-19 19:44:43	schnippi	danieldg: On the other hand, why does the code compile when I remove the outer loop - as I still have one mutable and one immutable ref to arr in the same scope?
2021-05-19 19:45:04	danieldg	because the mutable ref ends
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2021-05-19 19:49:07	schnippi	danieldg: because of the scope of the inner for loop?
2021-05-19 19:51:16	schnippi	So I guess the mutable reference to arr is released after the inner for loop iterations are finished?
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2021-05-19 19:53:12	danieldg	yes
2021-05-19 19:53:33	danieldg	but the one in the vecdeque remains until that vecdeque is destroyed
2021-05-19 19:54:16	danieldg	you could fix it by using .get(2).copied() to have the vecdeque contain owned values
2021-05-19 19:58:14	schnippi	But that would mean that taking the references to arr (by calling iter_mut() and iter()) are not the main problem here?
2021-05-19 19:58:55	danieldg	the problem is that .get returns a reference, and you hold on to it *across* the other referenc
2021-05-19 19:58:58	danieldg	e
2021-05-19 19:59:26	schnippi	yes
2021-05-19 20:01:01	schnippi	When the iterator behind iter_mut() is trying to create a mut ref to the element in arr with index 2, I suppose?
2021-05-19 20:02:37	danieldg	less granular - the entire vec is considered borrowed
2021-05-19 20:03:46	schnippi	But I wonder how references to arr and the elements of arr are related?
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2021-05-19 20:08:02	schnippi	Does the borrow checker somehow block access to the array's elements if iter_mut() (or another method on the array that takes &mut self) is called?
2021-05-19 20:08:29	Mutabah	Yep
2021-05-19 20:08:35	danieldg	note the borrow checker is all at compile time, but yes
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2021-05-19 20:17:17	sysadmin	ATTENTION: This channel will be terminated. Any nicks remaining in the channel will also be terminated. This action cannot be undone
2021-05-19 20:18:21	_zxq9_	OFTC #rust isn't going to be terminated. So meh.
2021-05-19 20:18:42	danieldg	c'mon, if you're going to spout craziness, say you'll terminate the *people*
2021-05-19 20:18:52	_zxq9_	This is indeed the way.
2021-05-19 20:19:11	phy1729	Just the people named Nick
2021-05-19 20:19:36	_zxq9_	"Mom! Why did you name me that? Do you know what you've DONE?!?"
2021-05-19 20:19:57	rk4	good thing i'm not nick
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2021-05-19 21:59:07	mattfly	maybe someone know how to help me: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67595021/pyo3-the-trait-pyclass-is-not-implemented-for-pypyany
2021-05-19 21:59:41	mattfly	the trait `PyClass` is not implemented for `&Py<PyAny>`
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2021-05-20 00:01:01	caryyon	newer to rust here, how with io::stdin() could i add a character or symbol prior to the input line? example: > message here
2021-05-20 00:01:14	caryyon	the key being the > to indicate something should go there
2021-05-20 00:01:32	GreenJello	you write that to stdout or stderr
2021-05-20 00:02:06	GreenJello	or use a prompt/readline crate
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2021-05-20 00:04:23	caryyon	GreenJello: know of a good prompt/readline crate?
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2021-05-20 00:07:03	GreenJello	I've used this one, and it's pretty good https://docs.rs/dialoguer/0.8.0/dialoguer/
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2021-05-20 00:08:57	caryyon	thanks GreenJello
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2021-05-20 00:13:51	caryyon	this is just what i was looking for GreenJello
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2021-05-20 00:14:50	caryyon	happen to konw any good crates for cli ui blocks? similar to tmux or stmux in the JS world?
2021-05-20 00:17:26	GreenJello	https://github.com/deinstapel/cursive-multiplex
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2021-05-20 00:20:14	GreenJello	I think this is missing the xterm component, though
2021-05-20 00:20:23	GreenJello	not sure where you'd find that part
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2021-05-20 00:23:32	caryyon	hmmm ok this looks kinda down the path i was thinking for adjustable ui
2021-05-20 00:23:44	caryyon	but maybe prettied up a bit
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2021-05-20 00:44:31	Spawns_Carpeting	How do I implement add (op overloading) for a generic type?
2021-05-20 00:44:46	Spawns_Carpeting	what constraint does T need? or is that the wrong way to fix the issue
2021-05-20 00:45:13	caryyon	GreenJello: thanks that last one lead me to cursive which is super nice cli ui crate
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2021-05-20 00:49:31	GreenJello	Spawns_Carpeting, might be possible with a sealed/private trait as the bound, but in general you need the types you're implementing it for to be in the current crate
2021-05-20 00:49:42	GreenJello	it could be a struct with a generic
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2021-05-20 00:50:15	Spawns_Carpeting	yeah the types are in the crate, well the types will likely by u8 or u16
2021-05-20 00:50:29	GreenJello	those are not in the current crate
2021-05-20 00:50:35	GreenJello	they're defined by the language
2021-05-20 00:51:00	Spawns_Carpeting	so i cannot implement Add() for a struct with a generic type that may happen to be a u8?
2021-05-20 00:51:15	SpaceManiac	Spawns_Carpeting: what did you try that didn't work?
2021-05-20 00:51:21	GreenJello	if you've define the struct then you can implement anything you want for it
2021-05-20 00:51:32	Spawns_Carpeting	i can't add generic type T to u8
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2021-05-20 00:52:01	Spawns_Carpeting	how do i tell the compiler that this generic type should be able to be added?
2021-05-20 00:52:04	Spawns_Carpeting	let me upload
2021-05-20 00:52:26	Spawns_Carpeting	https://bpa.st/FFJA
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2021-05-20 00:52:59	Spawns_Carpeting	can i specify that this impl is for a concrete instance of the generic struct? like only for structs that T = u8?
2021-05-20 00:54:18	Mutabah	You could do `impl ops::Add<u8> for Register<u8>`
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2021-05-20 00:54:51	Spawns_Carpeting	ahh I thinks that what I was looking for. otherwise it would not make sense to be able to impl add
2021-05-20 00:55:10	Spawns_Carpeting	coming from c++ templates makes me confused sometimes
2021-05-20 00:55:10	Mutabah	but, your pasted code works if you add sufficient `where` clauses
2021-05-20 00:55:25	Spawns_Carpeting	what where clause would that be? i could not find that
2021-05-20 00:55:35	Mutabah	https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=1072c3f89a3ea0b45760f5a016a79313
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2021-05-20 00:57:05	Spawns_Carpeting	what exactly is that syntax called? the second where clause "u8: ops::Add<T, Output = u8>
2021-05-20 00:57:19	Mutabah	It's a normal trait bound
2021-05-20 00:57:28	Spawns_Carpeting	i've never seen the generic angle brackets in a trait bounds area
2021-05-20 00:57:29	Mutabah	(with an associated type equality rule within the trait)
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2021-05-20 00:58:38	Spawns_Carpeting	very cool stuff. thank you for helping me out with this. i tried searching quite a lot but could not figure out which trait bound would work, but I didn't realize that the angle bracket add thing even existed
2021-05-20 00:59:05	Mutabah	The error message with your pasted code provided that bound
2021-05-20 00:59:19	Spawns_Carpeting	not for me on emacs
2021-05-20 00:59:28	Mutabah	If you're using an IDE, make sure to run `cargo build` or `cargo check` if you're not sure about an error
2021-05-20 00:59:51	Mutabah	IDEs just show you the error line, not any of the context and hints provided by the compiler
2021-05-20 01:00:40	Spawns_Carpeting	right I see. that makes sense now
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2021-05-20 03:09:14	sensille	i have an Option<File> in self.f. I would assume the file to close as soon as I assign None to self, but it doesn't seem to
2021-05-20 03:09:32	Mutabah	it should
2021-05-20 03:09:37	Arnavion	How did you determine it didn't
2021-05-20 03:11:06	sensille	truss/strace
2021-05-20 03:11:40	sensille	it seems only to close when I assign another Some(f) to it
2021-05-20 03:12:13	Arnavion	No. You're doing something wrong, either in your code or in your strace. Show us both
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2021-05-20 03:15:08	sensille	https://pastebin.com/DXgcnnhC
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2021-05-20 03:17:07	Arnavion	Not that it matters for this particular puzzle, but a better way to write that is   if let Some(f) = self.f.take() { ... }   which removes the need to set it to None
2021-05-20 03:17:33	sensille	glad for any stylistic hints :)
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2021-05-20 03:17:45	Arnavion	Anyway, given that the stderr output is mingling with the strace output, I suspect you might be losing out on a line
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2021-05-20 03:18:27	sensille	stderr output?
2021-05-20 03:18:57	sensille	the close(3) should come before the open
2021-05-20 03:19:02	Arnavion	>write(3, " o p = E N D\n", 7)                   = 7
2021-05-20 03:19:06	Arnavion	The spaces there
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2021-05-20 03:19:30	Arnavion	Looks like two things writing over each other, and perhaps the thing that was written over was close(...)
2021-05-20 03:19:31	sensille	it's just the output format of truss
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2021-05-20 03:19:42	sensille	truss is the strace equivalent of illumos
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2021-05-20 03:20:00	Arnavion	I see
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2021-05-20 03:20:50	Arnavion	Anyway, assigning None or Some() to an Option makes no difference to destroying its original value. You can double-check with a debugger instead of relying on truss
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2021-05-20 03:22:57	sensille	truss never failed me. my next step would be to insert a sleep. my suspicion is that the compiler optimizes the assignment of None away
2021-05-20 03:23:16	Arnavion	It has side effects, so it won't
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2021-05-20 03:27:24	sensille	haha, same old problem. if observation doesn't match the code, you probably run old code :) sorry for the noise, copied the wrong binary over
2021-05-20 03:28:01	Arnavion	Heh
2021-05-20 03:28:04	davros	are there any popular n-d array (specifically small d count 2d,3d,4d)  libs in the ecosystem.. i was just contemplating hjow the image crate interfaces could be simpler in some cases using such a   thing (at the expense of an eextra dependancy admitedly)
2021-05-20 03:28:20	sensille	so it behaves as expected
2021-05-20 03:28:51	davros	a lot of declarations in the image  crate's interface boil down to a wrapper over "some data in a grid" , "width x height x channels"
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2021-05-20 03:31:21	davros	sometimes i try to aproximate a 2d or 3d array  as (Vec<T>,(width,height))    same problem we have with the Vec3{x,y,z} ... as soon as you commit to a specific struct you make libraries incompatible with eachother
2021-05-20 03:31:46	davros	^ but you kind of need to to get the full range of options on declaring methods
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2021-05-20 03:32:50	Arnavion	ndarray is the crate I've seen being used by people asking questions here. No idea how popular it is otherwise or what else is there
2021-05-20 03:33:00	davros	(after rolling several image helper libs myself and dabbling with python.. these days I think building such a thing around a 2d or even 3d array abstraction is the way to go )
2021-05-20 03:33:16	davros	the image crate is definitely capable and useful
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2021-05-20 03:34:22	davros	but i'm comparing its interfaces to even a simple jpg loader  lib i used in c++ and it seems it should be possible to streamline it a bit
2021-05-20 03:35:50	davros	i started committing to the ImageBuffer types in some interfaces between modules in my own code but on refletion some of it is ... a bit icky (like there's a type that wraps a byte buffer, specfies a plugin pixel type, but doesn't give a slice of pixels)
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2021-05-20 03:38:07	davros	there's 2 extremes... the 'ImageBuffer' (too little) and the DynamicImage (too much)
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2021-05-20 03:38:37	davros	n channels (n=1 monochrome, 3=rgb, 4=rgba) can get you quite far
2021-05-20 03:39:03	davros	this jpg lib i used in c++ just has a channel count
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2021-05-20 03:40:24	dalcde	Is there a Rust version of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27217877 ?
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2021-05-20 03:45:45	freddyb	dalcde: Not really. The threading model is a bit different in rust. Maybe you'll find something in https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/sync/index.html or https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/thread/ ?
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2021-05-20 03:45:57	freddyb	(admittedly, I'm not sure I really got the std::latch docs)
2021-05-20 03:46:25	Arnavion	There's one in tokio
2021-05-20 03:46:41	Arnavion	https://docs.rs/tokio/1.6.0/tokio/sync/struct.Barrier.html
2021-05-20 03:47:21	Arnavion	With std you'll have to build one yourself with CondVar or something
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2021-05-20 04:42:34	elichai2	Any way to safely initialize and retrieve a global String  without using unsafe?
2021-05-20 04:43:08	elichai2	too bad we don't have AtomicRef<T>  that can be used without unsafe (unlike AtomicPtr)
2021-05-20 04:43:23	elichai2	otherwise I would just leak the string into the atomic
2021-05-20 04:43:53	elichai2	(I have logic that promises sequentially anyway so I'd use Relaxed)
2021-05-20 04:46:37	rk4	curious, what's the global string for?
2021-05-20 04:49:13	Arnavion	once_cell / lazy_static / create it in main() and pass &str down to every fn that needs it
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2021-05-20 06:15:18	davros	before i google.. is there someting lke a  concat iterator  eg for VEc<Vec<T>>.iter().concat()  // get all the inner T's
2021-05-20 06:15:27	j`ey	chain
2021-05-20 06:15:33	j`ey	oh
2021-05-20 06:15:37	j`ey	flatten
2021-05-20 06:15:54	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html#method.flatten
2021-05-20 06:16:10	davros	ok nice flatten does it yes
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2021-05-20 06:16:30	j`ey	i thought you were saying to concat two iterators, which chain is
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2021-05-20 06:17:40	davros	ok they avoid the name 'concat' which is more ambiguous
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2021-05-20 06:26:51	elichai2	rk4: and enviroment variable
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2021-05-20 06:45:33	davros	'index' must return a ref to something  , it can't generate a value? (index()->&Self::Ouptput .. can't say type &Self::Output=T or equivalent to workaround?
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2021-05-20 06:46:53	j`ey	it;s a reference, yep
2021-05-20 06:47:41	davros	damn i think i ran into this already in a previous attempt..  trying to make   array2d[row0..row1] returning an iterator isn't possible
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2021-05-20 06:48:13	davros	although i can make a named function for that of course.
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2021-05-20 06:54:55	jbg	what would happen when you next() on that iterator? you only have an immutable reference to the element in the array
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2021-05-20 06:55:35	jbg	you could iterate through indexmut, but the whole idea seems a bit odd
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2021-05-20 07:24:06	vorner	If there's anything meaningful that you can return, can that thin be `IntoIterator` instead?
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2021-05-20 09:36:19	w0x12ef	Does rust have virtual function table
2021-05-20 09:36:48	j`ey	w0x12ef: yes with dyn Traits
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2021-05-20 09:37:06	w0x12ef	j`ey, so that is same as c++
2021-05-20 09:37:11	j`ey	similar
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2021-05-20 09:38:22	w0x12ef	j`ey, does rust facilitate the concept of "duck type"?
2021-05-20 09:39:53	ComCat	Hi. Is this channel also moving to libera?
2021-05-20 09:39:59	j`ey	ComCat: yes
2021-05-20 09:40:05	j`ey	w0x12ef: not really
2021-05-20 09:40:14	j`ey	w0x12ef: traits are kinda like a static version of that?
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2021-05-20 09:40:46	w0x12ef	implement xxx for yyy ,sounds like
2021-05-20 09:41:47	w0x12ef	j`ey, the diff is the implementation check at compiling time or runtime
2021-05-20 09:42:07	w0x12ef	if at compiling time ,that is static
2021-05-20 09:42:22	w0x12ef	duck type make it at runtime
2021-05-20 09:42:28	ComCat	j`ey: why isn't it in the topic like in all the other channels?
2021-05-20 09:42:35	j`ey	ComCat: it is?
2021-05-20 09:42:42	j`ey	"Join us @ irc.libera.chat in ##rust"
2021-05-20 09:42:44	ComCat	complaining in #freenode btw, so if I get banned I didn't actually do anything wrong
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2021-05-20 09:42:47	ComCat	yeah sorry, missed that
2021-05-20 09:42:51	ComCat	I need  this channel.
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2021-05-20 09:43:07	j`ey	w0x12ef: yeah it's compile time, static
2021-05-20 09:43:25	w0x12ef	j`ey, very like c++
2021-05-20 09:43:32	w0x12ef	but strong
2021-05-20 09:43:35	w0x12ef	and safe
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2021-05-20 09:48:04	@ladyfriday	fwiw, this channel isn't going anywhere any time soon
2021-05-20 09:48:36	@ladyfriday	I mostly added it to the topic in case people turn up here and most of the activity has moved to libera
2021-05-20 09:50:39	capitol	would maybe be good to transition this channel to be read only at some point in the future, so that the talk doesn't get fragmented
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2021-05-20 09:53:04	@ladyfriday	people will talk where they talk, I have no plans to stop that
2021-05-20 09:53:07	@ladyfriday	oh, they left
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2021-05-20 10:05:14	Death916	the one bad thing abuout hiding parts
2021-05-20 10:05:19	Death916	is sometimes ur left talking to yourself
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2021-05-20 10:18:22	w0x12ef	Does rust have reflection feature
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2021-05-20 10:21:54	Alexendoo	w0x12ef: There is std::any which provides a limited amount, but it's not typically used
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2021-05-20 10:23:32	w0x12ef	Alexendoo, so it does not allowed to get type at runtime
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2021-05-20 10:23:33	w0x12ef	?
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2021-05-20 10:33:15	Alexendoo	w0x12ef: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/any/index.html
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2021-05-20 10:36:31	sensille	is the current nightly known to be broken? can i install an older version?
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2021-05-20 10:39:56	Alexendoo	Don't know about the current nightly, but you can specify nightly-yyyy-mm-dd as the channel
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2021-05-20 10:41:54	sensille	great, with an older one it builds again
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2021-05-20 12:58:23	twiclo	Wow 200 people in libera. That's up quite a bit
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2021-05-20 12:59:55	twiclo	Anyways question for you guys. https://p.twil.cx/kel.rs
2021-05-20 12:59:57	twiclo	I need to build a vec of BufferMetas and the function pasted does just that but right now it returns a json serialized HttpResponse.
2021-05-20 12:59:59	twiclo	I thought about trying to unwrap it back to a BufferMeta but this is more and more looking like not the right way to do it. Can I somehow return a different type based on a condition?
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2021-05-20 13:08:48	AstrallyForged	.hg No. You have to return a value of the type specified by the function's return type.
2021-05-20 13:09:20	AstrallyForged	.hg But you can make that type `Either<..>` or `json::Value` or some other type that can handle multiple different kinds of things.
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2021-05-20 13:14:26	--	Mode ##rust [-o ladyfriday] by ladyfriday
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2021-05-20 13:34:08	davros	https://github.com/image-rs/image/issues/1479
2021-05-20 13:36:09	davros	rust "image" appears to be the go-to crate for loading image files. but it takes time to dig through how to use. general suggestion for wrapping and refactoring. But there appears to be no popular candidate for "Array2D<T>, Array3D<T>". it's like the issue with Vec{x,y,z}, many people end up rolling their own because it's hard to share?
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2021-05-20 13:37:42	j`ey	hat about https://docs.rs/ndarray/0.15.2/ndarray/
2021-05-20 13:37:45	j`ey	*what
2021-05-20 13:37:55	davros	but it should be possible to make a nice general purpose 2d/3d container handling all the rust idioms (iter() over rows.. iter().flatten() to get all the elements, access [y][x] (instead of special "get pixel" fns etc etc etc)
2021-05-20 13:38:25	davros	this is a brainstorming attempt.  and ultimately a suggetion , i cannot telll them what to use :)
2021-05-20 13:38:45	davros	i should try ndarray yes
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2021-05-20 13:41:06	j`ey	[y][x] could be hard due to the Index
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2021-05-20 13:41:17	davros	let me check if truly *N-d* complicates or simplifies , versus  2D, (3D, (4D.)). and it might be "2D x [T;N=1,3,4] handles the image case
2021-05-20 13:42:40	davros	https://play.rust-lang.org/ here's a simple attempt at making an Array2D that supports [y][x]  (i.e. impl Index for Array2D  returns a slice for a row)
2021-05-20 13:43:00	j`ey	bad link
2021-05-20 13:43:13	davros	https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=c49a0dc6fa939679c3a1f2d71bf160da
2021-05-20 13:43:34	j`ey	this is impossible to read lol
2021-05-20 13:43:48	 *	j`ey clicks rustfmt
2021-05-20 13:44:08	j`ey	shape is just x/y right?
2021-05-20 13:44:12	davros	yes
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2021-05-20 13:44:33	davros	(sorrry i compressed some early lines to keep them out of the way in a page summary..)
2021-05-20 13:45:38	j`ey	looks like what i expected
2021-05-20 13:45:48	davros	one thing i was in the middle of figuring out, making the 'Pixel<>' type itself suport iter (rather than adding an .iter() method i thought 'Deref' would expose the internal array)
2021-05-20 13:46:49	davros	anyway." imagine if"  the go-to rust image crate just returned Array2D<Pixel> rather than some custom image buffer.
2021-05-20 13:47:35	davros	(but you could still have the custom image buffers keeping the data in a more advanced form for transcoding GPU textures etc, you just dont need to complicate a new user's experience with them)
2021-05-20 13:47:56	davros	("they say rust is cumbersome". "ok lets load an image". "holy shit what is this enum i have to match"
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2021-05-20 13:49:47	j`ey	still have to know what the format is at some point
2021-05-20 13:50:58	davros	you can get wuite far on a few simple ones . and yes, someone coding an engine will need all the GPU compressed formats
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2021-05-20 13:54:38	davros	in my sourcebase..
2021-05-20 13:55:40	davros	i've gone and used my Vec2d<T>{x:T, y:T} for "shape" in my Array2d<> impl heh . so i can't just share my Array2d rigth now without asking people to bring in my maths lib as a dependancy :)  the related issue i was discussing earlier
2021-05-20 13:56:12	davros	i probably want to refactor that to just use [Idx;2] for 'shape' and any multi-d array indices
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2021-05-20 16:39:19	yuri6037	Hi is there a way to make a mut index in a for numerical loop or do I have to turn it into a while loop?
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2021-05-20 17:04:55	georgemp	Hi. Given a pointer to a struct Client that has an async method `me()`, is there a way to move this pointer into a tokio spawned task and call the me() method? I run into issues with the pointer not being Send and the future requiring it. I've tried a few different iterations of this code - https://gist.github.com/georgemp/880dd55d6b121eff08fed4afe67072ec
2021-05-20 17:06:44	voker57	you can't move pointers
2021-05-20 17:06:49	voker57	wrap it in a safe type
2021-05-20 17:07:15	voker57	Arc<Mutex<> might help
2021-05-20 17:07:23	georgemp	voker57: i've tried wrapping it in a new type struct..and mutexing that
2021-05-20 17:07:40	voker57	arc is the key here
2021-05-20 17:08:06	georgemp	Arc over the mutex?
2021-05-20 17:08:38	voker57	yes, it's common construction for similar purposes
2021-05-20 17:10:32	georgemp	that doesn't seem to make a difference though...i've used Arc::Mutex to move pointer to data in other instances. But, here i think i might be running into issues as i'm derefencing the pointer and awaiting a method on that?
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2021-05-20 17:11:08	GreenJello	yes, that seems to be the issue
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2021-05-20 17:11:51	georgemp	is there some other approach i can take. i'd like to call this method across a C ffi
2021-05-20 17:12:13	voker57	don't hold pointer across an await
2021-05-20 17:13:51	georgemp	hmm..so, all i have is a pointer to the struct in my C fn. Given that, is there a way to call this async method?
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2021-05-20 17:17:57	voker57	i don't understand what you want well, but maybe call me() on an arc, let me() grab a lock, do all it needs to do with a pointer, drop it, await on something?
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2021-05-20 17:20:21	voker57	I'm not sure if a function can accept a pointer and be async...
2021-05-20 17:21:44	georgemp	so, struct Client has a async fn `me()`. I'm trying to call this fn from C, await it and get it's output. So, what i'm trying to do is pass a tokio runtime handle and a completion handler from C into a wrapper fn, along with a pointer to Client.
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2021-05-20 17:22:02	voker57	or rather be spawned in tokio
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2021-05-20 17:22:18	georgemp	Ultimately, I want to spawn a new task on the given tokio runtime, get the output from me() by awiting it, and run the completion handler
2021-05-20 17:22:55	georgemp	or something to that effect...essentially, call me() from C
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2021-05-20 17:23:48	voker57	is me() a function of Client or *Client?
2021-05-20 17:24:30	voker57	regardless, if Client is not Send, it's not gonna run in threaded tokio
2021-05-20 17:26:11	voker57	looks like you need to look into that function
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2021-05-20 17:26:24	voker57	or maybe try current_thread runtime
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2021-05-20 17:46:52	georgemp	well, i can do &*client outside the tokio runtime spawn and move that reference into the spawned async block. The compiler doesn't complain then. But, I think the greater issue now with either case, is that the pointed to Client can potentially be freed before the spawned task compete
2021-05-20 17:47:08	georgemp	compete/completes
2021-05-20 17:49:32	georgemp	perhaps, i should use a pointer to Arc<Client> as my FFI handle. I could then pass that pointer across the FFI, and when moving back to rust, deref to get the Arc and clone it...
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2021-05-20 19:08:48	mattfly	last time trying, maybe someone can help me: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67595021/pyo3-the-trait-pyclass-is-not-implemented-for-pypyany
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2021-05-20 19:23:50	j`ey	mattfly: im trying to find out, but I think you want to make it PyObject, but &PyObject
2021-05-20 19:24:22	mattfly	oh
2021-05-20 19:24:54	mattfly	j`ey: you mean like: fn length(py: Python, obj: &PyObject) -> PyResult {
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2021-05-20 19:25:37	j`ey	length(py: Python, obj: PyObject)
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2021-05-20 19:27:58	mattfly	you are right :ss
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2021-05-20 19:29:52	mattfly	j`ey:  how did you know it so fast?
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2021-05-20 19:30:12	j`ey	just guessing / trying to think what it might be
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2021-05-20 19:41:02	davros	https://pasteboard.co/K2PRIDv.png a little progress on my rust 3d thing
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2021-05-20 20:01:11	davros	i ran into something with itertools having a clash with 'flatten()' / i wanted itertools for 'step_by()' .. had to write "Iterator::flatten({my_previous_chain}).the_rest() , is there a better way /  would i have to maybe 'un-use' the other bits and write extention traits to call them :/  (if i wanted the slick chaining syntax everywhere)
2021-05-20 20:01:58	davros	Iterator::flatten({lm.map.iter().map(|row|row.iter().map(|rgb|rgb.iter().rev().fold(0xffu32,|a,&x|(x as u32)|(a<<8))))}).collect::<Vec<_>>();
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2021-05-20 20:03:21	davros	it seems you cant put qualified paths in  eg qqq().foo::bar().baz()
2021-05-20 20:03:59	davros	it was also complaining about 'rayon' having a .flatten :/
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2021-05-20 20:04:39	davros	maybe i could make a little extention trait with .my_flatten() :/
2021-05-20 20:05:36	Mateon1	You can always call it on the trait itself
2021-05-20 20:05:44	AstrallyForged	.hg I don't see an Itertools::flatten()
2021-05-20 20:05:56	Mateon1	Which is ugly, because it doesn't chain nicely, but better than nothing
2021-05-20 20:06:15	AstrallyForged	.hg sounds like that's what they're doing already?
2021-05-20 20:06:27	Mateon1	Ah, I see that's what you're already doing in the snippet you posted
2021-05-20 20:06:29	Mateon1	It's just ugly
2021-05-20 20:06:30	davros	ok un "useing" itertools fixes it (i have just one file where i then needed to use that instead)
2021-05-20 20:06:45	davros	Mateon1, yeah exactly .
2021-05-20 20:08:46	davros	right confirmed, as soon as i use itertools::Itertools in this file, it tells me:"    = note: candidate #2 is defined in an impl of the trait `Itertools` for the type `T`"
2021-05-20 20:09:21	davros	https://docs.rs/itertools/0.7.8/itertools/fn.flatten.html#:~:text=Function%20itertools%3A%3Aflatten%20%5B%E2%88%92%5D%20%5Bsrc%5D&text=Flatten%20an%20iterable%20of%20iterables,flat_map%20with%20an%20identity%20function. <<< :/
2021-05-20 20:09:42	davros	but i was just "using" itertools::Itertools
2021-05-20 20:09:54	AstrallyForged	.hg ah. old itertools
2021-05-20 20:10:02	AstrallyForged	.hg newer versions don't have it
2021-05-20 20:10:17	davros	oh if i update my import version..
2021-05-20 20:11:19	davros	nice that fixed it.
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2021-05-20 20:13:23	AstrallyForged	.hg …the thing is, that might increase /your/ crate's minimum supported Rust version.
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2021-05-20 20:15:43	davros	so people lag a bit in library versions over little things lke this (like someone might have been using that alternate .flatten()  )?
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2021-05-20 20:22:07	davros	those lazy functional iterators are fun to use. you jut have to torture me with 64bit indices to stop me thinking this stdlib is perfect :/
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2021-05-20 20:26:02	danieldg	oh, the std lib has lots of little issues, you'll keep finding htem
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2021-05-20 20:30:35	danieldg	my short list: std::ops::Range* impl'ing Iterator instead of Copy; Mutex poision; HashMap keying (though raw_entry seems to mostly fix my gripe); the default panic/backtrace hooks; std::env::args copying the values
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2021-05-20 20:36:27	davros	danieldg, i'm forgiving about other things but i consider the index thing as deliberately malicious :)
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2021-05-20 21:17:13	davros	"x32 abi" .. is this a thing, does it work, can one select an x32 target triple in crgo or what
2021-05-20 21:17:38	Mutabah	"x32" is an ABI (it's 64-bit x86 code but with 32-bit in-memory pointers)
2021-05-20 21:17:53	davros	it wouldnt be the ideal solution for me but it might be worth considering
2021-05-20 21:17:57	Mutabah	However, I don't think it's well supported on modern kernels/libcs
2021-05-20 21:18:13	davros	right reading around it seems ambiguous
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2021-05-20 21:19:05	davros	a 32bit program adress space interfacing with a graphics api allocating textures should be viable
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2021-05-20 21:19:37	danieldg	yeah, x32 needs kernel support to modify some data structures that contain pointers (iovec, for example), and to allocate the initial stack below 4G
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2021-05-20 21:20:03	davros	right it sounded fidly, with boundary issues
2021-05-20 21:20:29	danieldg	it worked pretty well (I used it for a while on my debian system)
2021-05-20 21:20:47	davros	there are plenty of theoretical solutions to my issue
2021-05-20 21:20:57	danieldg	just another multilib architecture
2021-05-20 21:21:24	sklv1	if i git clone clap and run cargo run --example 03_args -- test , it works fine, but if i paste the contents of 03_args.rs over my main.rs, it doesn't build - 'error[E0599]: no function or associated item named `new` found for struct `Arg<'_, '_>` in the current scope'
2021-05-20 21:21:57	davros	[[[entities ]   vertices   ]         textures                               ]
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2021-05-20 21:25:37	davros	i guess it kills type inference in existing programs if you just have an extra 'index_int' that is supported for [] for Vec and slice (ie there'd be situatons where that would back propogate)
2021-05-20 21:26:06	davros	(^ where the code would have relied on 'this value is used in an index() op , so its usize.."
2021-05-20 21:26:24	danieldg	hmm, yeah, that might actually be a really good reason to forbid it
2021-05-20 21:26:35	davros	good god how the hell did this community manage to make this so hard
2021-05-20 21:27:20	danieldg	for i in 0.. { println!("{}", i} }  // I think that defaults to i32
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2021-05-20 21:27:55	davros	imagine this being done in stages with a #[config], opt-in
2021-05-20 21:28:30	danieldg	eh, you are perfectly capable of doing that yourself
2021-05-20 21:28:48	davros	slice indexing
2021-05-20 21:28:57	danieldg	(but with wrapper types instead of #[config])
2021-05-20 21:29:06	davros	slices etc
2021-05-20 21:29:11	davros	native arrays
2021-05-20 21:29:20	danieldg	DavrosSlice<T>
2021-05-20 21:29:25	danieldg	DavrosArray<T,N>
2021-05-20 21:29:47	davros	i've done DavrosArray<T,N>
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2021-05-20 21:30:09	danieldg	you can impl into_iter properly on it too
2021-05-20 21:30:17	davros	davrosslice and an array wrapper get annoying to do
2021-05-20 21:30:32	davros	i've got one system thats half gone down that road
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2021-05-20 21:30:49	davros	i say again how the hell did this get so hard to do :/ i swear its malicious
2021-05-20 21:31:08	Mutabah	wait, what seems malicious?
2021-05-20 21:31:27	davros	make something 99% good and put 1% poison in
2021-05-20 21:31:28	danieldg	I swear you're just stuck on how you think it should work
2021-05-20 21:31:41	Mutabah	(Also... the nerve of "Davros" [creator of the daleks] calling someone malicious :D)
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2021-05-20 21:32:03	davros	on the x32 kind of ideas
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2021-05-20 21:33:01	davros	this kind of reminds me of x86 real mode segments - we all hated that but it had good reason to exist, ie. in the transition sizes between 8->16->32 bits
2021-05-20 21:33:08	danieldg	you *could* create a rust architecture that boostraps itself with a bit of 64-bit code and then runs the majority in an x32-like environment
2021-05-20 21:33:26	davros	yeah there might be a solution like that
2021-05-20 21:33:45	danieldg	well, segments are useful for more than just extending your 286 to more than 16-bit addresses
2021-05-20 21:33:46	davros	as i say the bulk of what i'm doing could probably fit in 32bits outright, with textures handled by the graphics library
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2021-05-20 21:34:21	danieldg	but C doesn't really "get" segments and so basically nobody used them
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2021-05-20 21:34:40	davros	yeah they had to make really nasty retrofits with that near far poitner stuff
2021-05-20 21:34:52	davros	in a nonstandard environment
2021-05-20 21:35:17	sklv1	same thing happens in rust playground - https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=bb31e61a018b7b5193e1ef0d99e5623e
2021-05-20 21:35:24	sklv1	wtf?!
2021-05-20 21:35:25	danieldg	a modern GC language might actually work really well with segments
2021-05-20 21:35:31	davros	its like.. if rust could handle 16bit real mode issues, it would have the necasery tools to handle this 32/64bit crossover idea
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2021-05-20 21:36:03	danieldg	but yeah, rust would also need wide pointers for segment support, just like C
2021-05-20 21:36:05	davros	it reallly is quite "segment like", the idea of 64bit adresses with 32bit offsets
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2021-05-20 21:36:50	danieldg	sklv1: never used clap, no idea
2021-05-20 21:36:54	davros	only not half as nasty with 32bit offsets vs 16bit offsets (the 16/32  and 32/64bit transitions are different... 32bit is a sweetspot)
2021-05-20 21:37:43	davros	doubling bits = squaring the adress space... the *bit count* goes with moore's law, the *address space* gets into overkill teritory quickly
2021-05-20 21:38:20	davros	(-> 32bits is a sweetspot.. reaching it early was a big bonus for 68k, and to this day it still has usefulness)
2021-05-20 21:39:08	danieldg	davros: I think even in C, lots of programs will break if intptr_t != size_t; rust does assume pointers and usize are the same size a lot.  You'd need to address that
2021-05-20 21:39:33	davros	yeah i realise its been setup in a way that makes it harder :/
2021-05-20 21:39:56	davros	thats why iget so wound up,we hd this discussion pre 1.0 when everything was in play
2021-05-20 21:41:07	danieldg	have you had the discussion with other languages, like zig?
2021-05-20 21:41:15	davros	a different (global) 'index' and 'usize' type (default to same size, but with a #[config] or target triple to selct would have done it
2021-05-20 21:41:16	GreenJello	sklv1, clap master is 3.x, which isn't released yet
2021-05-20 21:41:54	davros	rust crosses some thresholds where it was worth switching
2021-05-20 21:42:20	davros	somethign like zig didn't grab me as much . i also had a bash at writing my own (quite zig-like, before zig)
2021-05-20 21:42:22	danieldg	davros: it would make things more complex, of course.  And sadly, the common slice type wouldn't be able to shrink below 16 bytes.
2021-05-20 21:42:33	GreenJello	sklv1, https://github.com/clap-rs/clap/blob/v2-master/examples/03_args.rs
2021-05-20 21:42:43	davros	(when i say quite zig-like, it looked similar, it was pretty much 'copy some of the bits i like from rust minus the safety')
2021-05-20 21:43:00	davros	but after  a couple of months i realised i can't maintain the tooling
2021-05-20 21:43:16	davros	my plan was to make something transpilable to & from a a c++ subset (like SPECS)
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2021-05-20 21:44:44	davros	whats the detail on this comment ("common slice type .. 16bytes")
2021-05-20 21:44:44	sklv1	GreenJello: thanks
2021-05-20 21:45:26	davros	thats for alignment i guess? (8byte ptr + 8byte len)  ->  (8byte ptr + 4byte len + 4byte wasted pad under my scheme?)
2021-05-20 21:45:33	danieldg	davros: a slice is (pointer, size) - but if you make size 4 bytes, the whole structure is still 16
2021-05-20 21:45:39	danieldg	yep, alignment
2021-05-20 21:45:40	davros	right ok
2021-05-20 21:45:58	davros	slices tend to be transient so that would not worry me
2021-05-20 21:46:31	danieldg	Box<[T]> is a non-transient slice
2021-05-20 21:46:42	davros	ohi kind of forgot they existed
2021-05-20 21:46:55	danieldg	and Vec<T> is (Box<[T]>, size)
2021-05-20 21:47:01	davros	kind of Vec-like thing
2021-05-20 21:47:31	danieldg	or I guess (Box<[MaybeUninit<T>], len) now
2021-05-20 21:47:40	davros	wait how does that work precisely, i thought Vec<T> was Vec{ T*, cap:usize, len:usize}
2021-05-20 21:48:02	danieldg	RawVec is ~=~ Box<[T]>
2021-05-20 21:48:04	davros	granted i haven't checked in ages
2021-05-20 21:48:25	davros	let me take a look and that reminds me i kind of want to "write my own vec from the ground up " at some point just for satisfaction
2021-05-20 21:48:41	davros	(for a long time in c++ i never used std::vector and considered it great laziness when i started)
2021-05-20 21:48:59	davros	a moment of defeat
2021-05-20 21:49:10	danieldg	Vec is actually really trivial to write, if you don't care about all the utility methods
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2021-05-20 21:49:34	danieldg	(and the iterator specializations that you can't write with stable rust at all)
2021-05-20 21:49:36	davros	i gather out of the box it *doesn't* do the smallvec opt
2021-05-20 21:49:45	davros	(i think llvm's sourcebase has one of those)
2021-05-20 21:49:54	danieldg	correct, you need to grab smallvec crate for that
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2021-05-20 21:50:31	davros	oh i see Vec<T, A:Allocator=Global>  , the slot i wanted for I is gone :/
2021-05-20 21:50:47	davros	they told me they didn't want a typeparam at all, even defaulted
2021-05-20 21:51:09	davros	now they have one ggrrrrr.
2021-05-20 21:51:14	danieldg	normal vec is shorter code-wise than smallvec, so if your normal use is going to alloc it's better to not smallvec at all
2021-05-20 21:51:22	davros	fuels me "its malicious" conspiracy theory.
2021-05-20 21:51:43	davros	right smallvec does sound like something you want to opt in to
2021-05-20 21:51:58	danieldg	plenty of people gripe about the allocator API, it might change
2021-05-20 21:52:19	davros	is it gated / whatever you call it under unstable?
2021-05-20 21:52:34	danieldg	you should be able to see that, yes...
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2021-05-20 21:53:00	danieldg	pub struct Vec<T, #[unstable(feature = "allocator_api", issue = "32838")] A: Allocator = Global> {
2021-05-20 21:53:35	davros	ok i'm seeing Vec<T>  =   struct {RawBuf<T,A>, len}  and RawBuf holds a "Unique<T:?Sized>,cap"
2021-05-20 21:53:55	davros	does that <T:?Sized> make it a slicey thing
2021-05-20 21:54:16	davros	(i had thorught the raw ptr + explicit 'cap' size handled things)
2021-05-20 21:54:30	danieldg	no, that means Unique could hold a trait object, but Vec doesn't let you do that
2021-05-20 21:54:45	davros	regarding the allocator interface i hadn't kept track but there was a good opportunity with rust to base everything on a  "user-tracked sizes" idea
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2021-05-20 21:54:57	davros	c  malloc/free mean the system has to track sizes,
2021-05-20 21:55:12	davros	then with std::vector the user (librar code) tracks sizes
2021-05-20 21:55:23	danieldg	yeah, C++ did it half-way but it still needs to track array sizes for delete[]
2021-05-20 21:55:39	davros	you can make a different allocator interface where you have alloc(void*,size_t) , free(void*,size_t) // pass theuser tracked size info
2021-05-20 21:55:45	davros	^^^ yeah thats it
2021-05-20 21:55:59	davros	you've got a "operator delete() pass your size" thing
2021-05-20 21:56:04	davros	but not for []
2021-05-20 21:56:31	danieldg	imo a mistake in C++ design, but a bit late to fix it now
2021-05-20 21:56:45	davros	anyway rust had a chance to get this one right .. did it :)
2021-05-20 21:56:57	davros	time to check what this "allocator api" is..
2021-05-20 21:58:34	davros	allocator "deallocate(&self, ptr:NonNul<u8>, layout:Layout)" << "Layout" sounds like the support for 'user-tracked size'
2021-05-20 21:58:45	danieldg	yep
2021-05-20 21:58:47	davros	so let me guess. peopel come from c++ and say "this is too complicated, make it like c++"
2021-05-20 21:58:59	danieldg	... no
2021-05-20 21:59:24	davros	>> "plenty of people gripe about the allocator API, it might change"<< whats the nature of the griping
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2021-05-20 22:00:35	davros	does sound like C interop could be fiddly but allocating/deallocating between different sides (rust vs C) would be insane anyway
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2021-05-20 22:00:58	davros	(unless it was rust unsafe code just calling exact malloc c to pss something to c)
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2021-05-20 22:01:00	danieldg	does the type parameter belong there, it breaks everyone's APIs
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2021-05-20 22:02:06	davros	maybe you could put a custom index in the Allocator trait, the idea being "certain types can be bound to pools of smallers sizes hence smaller indices" :)
2021-05-20 22:02:08	danieldg	ways to make it possible to have bump allocators without making every Vec 32 bytes long instead of 24
2021-05-20 22:02:26	davros	trait Allocator { .. type Index = usize ... }
2021-05-20 22:02:45	danieldg	davros: no, because indexing is done on the slice, and the allocator doesn't go that far down
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2021-05-20 22:03:44	danieldg	you really need a LessThan4GSlice type
2021-05-20 22:03:52	davros	^^ pub struct Unique<T: ?Sized> {    pointer: *const T, <<< this thing really is a slice? its not size calcualted by one level back (RawBuf<T>)
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2021-05-20 22:04:11	danieldg	no
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2021-05-20 22:04:22	danieldg	that pointer is not a slice
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2021-05-20 22:04:33	davros	RawVec< T, A:Allocator>  { ptr:Unique<T>,   cap:usize, alloc:A }  ok
2021-05-20 22:05:01	davros	so ptr = 8bytes, cap= 8bytes,  and len in the Vec outer is 8bytes,
2021-05-20 22:05:05	davros	24bytes
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2021-05-20 22:20:47	caryyon	GreenJello: thanks again for the suggested crates. Those were just what i was looking for
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2021-05-21 05:25:35	s1341_	how can i get two items from a hashmap as mutable at the same time?
2021-05-21 05:26:05	s1341_	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/57jx7Eh9/
2021-05-21 05:26:19	s1341_	this complains that self.clients is borrowed as mutable twice...
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2021-05-21 05:31:49	osse	I don't know the answer to your question directly, but it seems like other_client can be retrieved using get() instead of get_mut() which will avoid the problem
2021-05-21 05:32:39	j`ey	you'll still have a &mut and an & though?
2021-05-21 05:33:29	osse	ugh
2021-05-21 05:33:42	osse	I thought that worked.
2021-05-21 05:34:03	osse	I blame the compiler for letting it compile just because I didn't use the result of get_mut() later
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2021-05-21 05:42:36	osse	i'm stumped
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2021-05-21 05:43:59	jbg	seems like a case for interior mutability
2021-05-21 05:45:11	jbg	other_client doesn't appear to need to be mutable though, so you could collect the things to insert into a vec so that you can drop the other_client reference before you start inserting
2021-05-21 05:46:52	jbg	let maps: Vec<_> = self.clients.get(&other_id).as_ref().unwrap().maps.iter().map(|(id, map)| (*id, map.clone())).collect(); let client = self.clients.get_mut(&client_id).unwrap(); for (id, map) in maps { client.maps.insert(id, map); }
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2021-05-21 06:44:01	daemon	so justs style is FIXME? :) https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.0.0/style/style/README.html
2021-05-21 06:44:07	daemon	rusts*
2021-05-21 06:44:59	daemon	I am building a small project that starts with a TCP server, so I will basically have a gitroot/project_core  gitroot/module_blah gitroot/module_bleh
2021-05-21 06:45:21	daemon	but what would be more correct for rust, project_core projectCore 'Project Core'
2021-05-21 06:47:11	j`ey	that's uh, a very old page :P
2021-05-21 06:47:54	j`ey	project_core
2021-05-21 06:48:33	daemon	j`ey, ah cool was just the first hit on google for, 'rust style guide' :) cheers
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2021-05-21 07:16:00	kpcyrd	I'm trying to use the igore= option in rustfmt but the command errors with "unstable features are only available in nightly channel."
2021-05-21 07:16:10	kpcyrd	but it seems the Option was stabilized in 2020: https://github.com/rust-lang/rustfmt/pull/4139
2021-05-21 07:17:09	kpcyrd	my rustfmt config is basically `ignore = ["src/schema.rs"]`
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2021-05-21 07:22:45	rascul	maybe try:  cargo +nightly fmt
2021-05-21 07:22:51	rascul	kpcyrd ^
2021-05-21 07:23:08	kpcyrd	why do I need +nightly though? :D
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2021-05-21 07:24:53	rascul	to use the nightly rustfmt that has the feature you want
2021-05-21 07:25:08	rascul	oh it was stabilized, i missed that
2021-05-21 07:25:42	rascul	maybe you need to update your rustfmt?
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2021-05-21 07:33:04	kpcyrd	do I need to do something besides rustup update?
2021-05-21 07:33:31	rascul	hrm i don't remember
2021-05-21 07:35:51	j`ey	nope
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2021-05-21 07:41:43	kpcyrd	sounds like a bug somewhere then?
2021-05-21 07:41:57	kpcyrd	hmm
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2021-05-21 07:41:59	kpcyrd	rustfmt 1.4.36-stable (7de6968 2021-02-07)
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2021-05-21 07:50:27	dexter	Hi! how do i make the compiler shut up about not haveing a snakecase crate name, while still getting all other snakecasename warnings?
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2021-05-21 07:51:41	j`ey	I would reimport it with a snakecase name
2021-05-21 07:51:59	dexter	I mean the pacakge name
2021-05-21 07:52:04	dexter	sorry
2021-05-21 07:52:07	j`ey	#[allow(..i-forgot-exactly)] use Foo_Bar as foo_bar;
2021-05-21 07:52:43	dexter	[package]
2021-05-21 07:52:45	dexter	name = "ScalperBotRTX"
2021-05-21 07:52:51	dexter	Lets say that was my program
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2021-05-21 07:52:56	j`ey	lol scalperbot
2021-05-21 07:53:04	dexter	Ye, one can dream right
2021-05-21 07:53:31	j`ey	something like https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=0b0eeeda5e9b3bdb504c07705d014956
2021-05-21 07:53:40	j`ey	but for a crate, not a struct
2021-05-21 07:53:58	dexter	Sometimes i dream about being so good at programming that I could program something that would allow me to buy a GPU at a somewhat decent price
2021-05-21 07:54:04	dexter	then i look at the prices and wake up
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2021-05-21 07:54:18	j`ey	lol
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2021-05-21 08:35:29	davros	so its not possible to make Index<T> return a temporary value it seems?  (eg the 'value' could be a reference or an accessor of some sort) /  i guess tahts was the only way to make it work with rusts & semantics?
2021-05-21 08:36:10	j`ey	correct
2021-05-21 08:36:26	davros	what i was trying to do is make a 2d array support slicing  foo[start..end] but this defeated somethig i was trying to do
2021-05-21 08:37:07	davros	i made a named function as a workaround
2021-05-21 08:37:27	dav1d	anyone else having issues with you-complete-me and rust-analyzer, ycm just reports that rust-analyzer is not initialized, reverting back to rust-analyzer 20210405 "fixes" the issue
2021-05-21 08:37:44	davros	its like you'd need to be able to say the "Index{ type Output= anti_ref SomeReturnStruct;..}
2021-05-21 08:38:09	davros	dav1d,  i'm using rust-analyzer fine, but not you-complete-me
2021-05-21 08:38:59	bertptrs	davros: With the current syntax it's impossible to declare that the lifetime of the return value comes from the argument, instead of the object
2021-05-21 08:39:34	dav1d	davros, weird, I am also not seeing an issues on github, neither in rust-analyzer nor ycm :(
2021-05-21 08:43:17	davros	so i initially tried to make a "Index<Range<Idx>>" returning a "RowIterator" in my 2d array.. jsut making it return a slice of 'T's doesn't quite cut it because it needs to carry the information of the next logical array nesting level
2021-05-21 08:44:06	davros	myarray2d[y0..y1]   // wants to yield a rectangular region    .. i had to make a sepreate named function for this case /
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2021-05-21 08:45:19	davros	so "index" lifetimes are always the 'original collection' i guess, whereas this "return another thing".. is yielding a temporary with a shorter lifetime
2021-05-21 08:45:46	davros	i guess this has no workaround or future migration path
2021-05-21 08:45:49	bertptrs	Unless "return this other thing" is 'static
2021-05-21 08:46:04	bertptrs	You're always allowed to return a longer lifetime than required
2021-05-21 08:46:46	davros	its contains a *ref* to the original object. its pretty much 'what regular index would return, plus some Copy types..'
2021-05-21 08:46:54	davros	its contains a *ref* to the original object. its pretty much 'what regular index would return, plus some Copy/'staitc types..'
2021-05-21 08:46:55	bertptrs	That should be possible then
2021-05-21 08:47:10	j`ey	no, it has to return a reference
2021-05-21 08:47:13	davros	1min i need to make a playground to clarify this
2021-05-21 08:47:16	bertptrs	Oh right, that silly thing
2021-05-21 08:47:25	bertptrs	I forgot about that footgun
2021-05-21 08:47:26	j`ey	fn index(&self) -> &Self::Output
2021-05-21 08:48:06	davros	the only way to express it would be if rust could expresss  T= anti& MyTempStruct  such that &T = MyTempStruct
2021-05-21 08:48:09	j`ey	there's a to of threads about this on reddit/discourse
2021-05-21 08:49:00	davros	its a flip from how C++ lets you return T or &T and they work the same (i realise rules probably had to change to make expressing safety easier)
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2021-05-21 08:49:34	davros	i thikn C++'s whole reference behaviour was introduced precisely to allow  opreator overloads and [] to work in a natural way (but they have their own hazards)
2021-05-21 08:50:00	bertptrs	I've created my own fair share of dangling references that way eh
2021-05-21 08:50:17	bertptrs	But the fact that index requires you to return a reference is problematic
2021-05-21 08:50:46	j`ey	rust 2.0 pls
2021-05-21 08:51:08	davros	are there any proposals like this "antiref type" lol
2021-05-21 08:51:33	bertptrs	Antiref is probably not going to happen, but perhaps the reference here can be implemented with some kind of trait
2021-05-21 08:51:39	bertptrs	In a BC way too
2021-05-21 08:52:22	davros	"generic associated types"
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2021-05-21 08:52:38	davros	"generic associated types with defaults" .. is there a path there?
2021-05-21 08:52:55	bertptrs	my wishlist for 2.0 isn't that long but boy are the small tweaks annoying
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2021-05-21 08:53:30	davros	Index  {  Output = T,    type ActualOutput=&T //  backward comptabiel default is automatically computed from Output}
2021-05-21 08:54:04	davros	bertptrs, my #1 annoyance wouldn't take 2.0 to fix :)
2021-05-21 08:55:06	davros	So the  slicing idea works with 'jagged arrays',   a memory-cost workaround would be to hold an array of slice refs inside the 2d array
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2021-05-21 08:56:19	davros	struct Array2d<T>{  shape,  flat_buffer:Vec<T>,    rows:Vec<RowRefs>}  [..] could return &RowRef .. but adds memory cost :/
2021-05-21 08:56:45	davros	&[RowRef] i mean
2021-05-21 08:57:16	bertptrs	And requires a lot of additional bookkeeping, which is not ideal
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2021-05-21 09:02:42	davros	does the idea of default computed type-params offer a migration path that could happen with BC before 2.0?
2021-05-21 09:04:18	davros	"type Output=T,  type ReallyOutput=&SelfOutput"
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2021-05-21 09:05:15	j`ey	but the signature is &Output
2021-05-21 09:05:49	j`ey	i guess you mean change that to -> ReallyOutput
2021-05-21 09:08:42	davros	exactly
2021-05-21 09:09:02	davros	and for existing code it just defaults to ReallyOutput=&Output
2021-05-21 09:09:38	davros	ah would that propogate through the ecosystem
2021-05-21 09:10:13	davros	places where you in turn needed to replace <T::Output=..>  --> <T::ReallyOutput=..>
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2021-05-21 09:13:41	j`ey	aka breaking change
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2021-05-21 09:22:56	davros	needs antiref then :)  a way of writing the equiv of  "type &Output=T" ->  "type Output= antiref T (does literally ref do that but isnt allowed in that context?)
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2021-05-21 09:25:22	jbg	it's all a bit meh though isn't it
2021-05-21 09:25:28	jbg	you can just not use Index
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2021-05-21 09:27:52	j`ey	hindsight is 2021
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2021-05-21 09:29:43	jbg	since it's all for the sake of syntax anyway, you could introduce some new syntax for 'index that doesn't return reference', and have a new corresponding trait IndexOwned or whatever, but I don't really think it's worth it
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2021-05-21 09:47:55	dav1d	I have a builder that takes `&mut self` `Flow::new().ip_src("...").ip_dst("...").materialize()` now depending on a boolean I need to either call `ip_dst` or `ip_src` is there a nice way to do that, instead of `let flow = Flow::new(); if flag { flow.ip_dst("...") } else { flow.ip_src("...") } let flow = flow.materialize()`? This becomes quite long
2021-05-21 09:47:56	dav1d	and unreadable
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2021-05-21 09:50:07	bertptrs	Nope, this is pretty much why non-consuming builders are preferred. See: https://rust-lang.github.io/api-guidelines/type-safety.html#non-consuming-builders-preferred
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2021-05-21 09:51:36	dav1d	thanks :(
2021-05-21 09:52:36	j`ey	i wonder if you can use the then() of bool
2021-05-21 09:53:03	j`ey	let flow = flag.then(|| flow.ip_dst).unwrap_or_else(||flow.ip_src)
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2021-05-21 09:56:23	bertptrs	Slightly better but still not great
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2021-05-21 09:58:10	jbg	wouldn't you have to move flow into the first closure (and then couldn't move it into the second)?
2021-05-21 09:59:09	j`ey	oh right
2021-05-21 10:00:38	j`ey	guess you need a impl Bool {fn do_this_if_true(self, T, fn(T) -> T) {..
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2021-05-21 10:04:17	kpcyrd	does it make a difference if I write `.filter(|x| x.a).filter(|x| x.b).filter(|x| x.c)` vs `.filter(|x| x.a && x.b && x.c)`?
2021-05-21 10:04:40	kpcyrd	the first one is easier to read in more complex cases if you write one .filter per line
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2021-05-21 10:09:33	bertptrs	the latter is generally easier on the compiler, the former has the readability benefit you mention
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2021-05-21 10:11:15	bertptrs	where easier on the compiler → more likely to generate optimal code
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2021-05-21 10:12:45	davros	i'd go for the second
2021-05-21 10:13:31	davros	i actually think its easier to read/write aswell
2021-05-21 10:14:00	bertptrs	it depends. if you have a data validation function that just chains a lot of filters, then the former can be nicer
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2021-05-21 11:05:38	folaht	I'm using rust on vim with rust-analyzer and I think I have an issue with the rust-analyzer.
2021-05-21 11:06:54	folaht	I'm getting errorlike warnings of "unresolved import"
2021-05-21 11:07:11	folaht	It compiles, but the errors are still there.
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2021-05-21 11:07:23	folaht	I'm not sure where to ask this.
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2021-05-21 11:20:02	bertptrs	What imports are failing?
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2021-05-21 11:36:31	davros	before i write one..  is there a neat way to do a "loop" iterator e.g.   [1,2,3,4]->[(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,1)]
2021-05-21 11:37:05	davros	"iterate over adjacent pairs in a sequence, considering the sequnce as wrapped around loop"
2021-05-21 11:37:37	davros	there's .cycle()  and .take(), maybe that can do it.. how about the adjacent pairs aspect
2021-05-21 11:38:18	davros	.cycle().adjacent().pairs().take(..how to get the original length..
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2021-05-21 11:43:21	osse	instead of cycle() you can chain() with a dummy iterator that just yields the 1 perhaps?
2021-05-21 11:44:13	davros	ok that makes sense
2021-05-21 11:45:03	davros	foo.iter(). chain(foo.iter().take(1)).adjacent_pairs()  // nearly there
2021-05-21 11:46:47	osse	what's missing?
2021-05-21 11:46:55	raekye	Hi, I'm learning rust and have a question about the idiomatic way to do something
2021-05-21 11:46:59	davros	lack of repition of "foo" :)
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2021-05-21 11:47:27	osse	why?
2021-05-21 11:47:53	davros	for 100% satisfaction sources are only refered to once
2021-05-21 11:48:01	davros	admitedly its good enough
2021-05-21 11:48:01	raekye	Say I have a Vec<Foo>, and I want to apply an operation on each element which may fail (returns a Result). If it fails, I want to stop/get the error, otherwise, I want the full list of processed objects
2021-05-21 11:48:36	osse	if it's good enough then it's probably good enough to do .take(foo.len()) in your original suggestion
2021-05-21 11:48:51	raekye	So I'm aware I can do v.into_iter().map(|x| do_something(x)).collect() // now I have a Result<Vec<Foo>, ...>
2021-05-21 11:49:45	raekye	But AFAIK this allocates a new vector, and ideally I want to modify the elements in place until it finishes or there is an error
2021-05-21 11:50:10	danieldg	raekye: just use a for loop
2021-05-21 11:50:40	danieldg	over foo.iter_mut
2021-05-21 11:50:40	raekye	I see, I wasn't sure if there was a better way
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2021-05-21 11:50:56	raekye	thanks!
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2021-05-21 11:51:30	danieldg	iterator combinators are not 'better' than for loops in most cases
2021-05-21 11:52:05	danieldg	they might be shorter in lines of code, I guess
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2021-05-21 11:53:35	osse	and they look cooler
2021-05-21 11:53:41	raekye	I see, I saw a lot of examples with iterators (they are really cool) so I thought/was hoping there would be a way to do it
2021-05-21 11:54:45	danieldg	you can do it, but the result will be less clear than a for loop IMO
2021-05-21 11:55:21	danieldg	foo.iter_mut().map(do_something).collect::<Result<(),E>>()?;
2021-05-21 11:56:31	raekye	Oh so collect is smart enough to not allocate anything for () ?
2021-05-21 11:57:30	danieldg	allocations only happen with types that allocate (box, collections, etc)
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2021-05-21 12:00:54	raekye	If do_something returns a value, doesn't collect construct a new vector?
2021-05-21 12:01:16	davros	danieldg, they're a lot of fun to write :)
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2021-05-21 12:01:46	danieldg	if I want code that's fun to write, I play golf in perl
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2021-05-21 12:02:29	osse	oh boy, that doesn't sound good
2021-05-21 12:02:41	davros	its a novel experience being able to do this "fun stuff" in the middle of your systems code
2021-05-21 12:02:44	osse	the main reason i'm learning Rust is that it's more fun to write than the other languages I know
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2021-05-21 12:04:55	davros	its a nice blend of functional and low level
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2021-05-21 12:23:57	davros	i guess there are rust lazy file consuming iterators
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2021-05-21 12:44:10	dav1d	can I configure serde_yaml to accept `foo: 1` and `foo: [1, 2, 3]`, with type `foo: Vec<i32>`, `foo: 1` would just be [1]?
2021-05-21 12:46:31	GreenJello	dav1d, not out of the box, but you can implement a deserializer for that field, or use something like this https://docs.rs/serde_with/1.9.1/serde_with/struct.OneOrMany.html
2021-05-21 12:47:29	dav1d	GreenJello: oh that's cool, thanks.
2021-05-21 12:48:54	dav1d	that crate is pretty cool
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2021-05-21 13:21:01	conkker	is there a way to expand lifetimes on function signatures, like how `cargo expand` works with macros?
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2021-05-21 13:23:43	jbg	raekye: collect constructs whatever type it's told to construct (it's generic over its return type)
2021-05-21 13:23:56	jbg	there's no Vec in that return type, so no, it doesn't construct a new vec
2021-05-21 13:24:37	jbg	more accurately, it just calls FromIterator::from_iter(): https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.FromIterator.html
2021-05-21 13:25:28	jbg	however in the example above, I think it's a compile error for do_something to return anything other than ()
2021-05-21 13:25:52	jbg	because () only impls FromIterator<()>
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2021-05-21 13:32:04	danieldg	conkker: use unstable rust with -Z unpretty=hir,typed
2021-05-21 13:32:50	danieldg	conkker: that's about as close as you get without a tool to do exactly that, which might be what you need
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2021-05-21 15:24:30	georgemp	Hi, i'm getting a poison error with this code - https://gist.github.com/georgemp/4aae8cedc49eec49bbed79fcbb26e066 and I believe it is because the printf call on line 82 is panicking. Any ideas on why this might be?
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2021-05-21 15:39:08	timemage	georgemp, i should probably know this, but i don't offhand: will "%s\n".as_ptr() as *const i8 result in a null terminated string?  if not, that would explain something.
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2021-05-21 15:41:03	GreenJello	it's not null-terminated
2021-05-21 15:41:44	georgemp	timemage: it doesn't..i just realized that :) The name pointer i was passing in is null-terminated, but, i forgot about the format specifier
2021-05-21 15:42:01	timemage	right.  so, he could switch to fwrite with a length, or maybe insert \0 or \x00 or whatever string literals support in rust; and if doing that maybe use puts rather that printf since that form of printf is kind of an overkill puts.
2021-05-21 15:43:24	timemage	well, i suppose where it's just the format string fwrite doens't make sense, but you get what i mean.  that would be pushed back to the argument, assuming that that the same problem.
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2021-05-21 15:43:59	danieldg	just use fwrite, since you know the length
2021-05-21 15:46:53	georgemp	i was looking at fwrite, but, am unsure on how to create the file handle for stdout
2021-05-21 15:47:12	danieldg	it's a C global
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2021-05-21 15:47:30	danieldg	or, you know, you could use the rust stdout
2021-05-21 15:50:41	danieldg	if it's not a C global on your system (which is allowed) you need a helper function to return the FILE*
2021-05-21 15:54:10	georgemp	is there a rust module that i need to look in for the C global? i don't seem to be able to find it (macOS)
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2021-05-21 15:58:15	danieldg	just declare it in an extern block
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2021-05-21 16:08:27	georgemp	extern "C" {static stdout: *mut libc::FILE} ?
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2021-05-21 16:31:23	georgemp	i have two approaches to running my async fn over ffi here https://gist.github.com/georgemp/e5ea360a5cfbd70246565666fa84ec05 One being a sync wrapper and the other async and using a completion handler. Would appreciate it if anyone has the time to look at it, and see if i have done anything fundamentally incorrect here. thanks :)
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2021-05-21 18:46:44	Zoohouse	Hello everyone o/; I used to use a site, I believe it was when I was playing with Go, and it would have a lesson on a concept or whatnot, lets say Loops, and then it would give you  challenge kinda like codewars.com. They had a terminal tool and you would complete the challenge on your computer then use the CLI tool to submit your work. Then you would be pared with a volunteer/mentor who would provide feed back to your solution. It was free. I
2021-05-21 18:46:44	Zoohouse	can't remember the site's name. Anyone here know what I'm talking about?
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2021-05-21 18:56:16	Zoohouse	https://exercism.io/ Finally! PAh!
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2021-05-21 18:59:38	kline	Zoohouse, might want to try libera.chat as well, given the topic
2021-05-21 18:59:40	kline	/topic
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2021-05-21 21:56:58	davros	one of the rust changes i curse
2021-05-21 21:57:11	davros	it used to be   "impl     Type : Trait {..}
2021-05-21 21:57:36	davros	they changed it to "impl Trait for Type"  ... which flips the order in which "Self" and "the other types" appear compared to the function decls
2021-05-21 21:57:48	davros	that kind of mental flip breaks intuition
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2021-05-21 21:58:34	davros	its much harder to flip the type orders in your head than it is to just get the colons right vs a clearer "for"
2021-05-21 21:59:11	davros	i curse things like this because they were deliberate choices
2021-05-21 21:59:21	davros	its not like things in c++ which are just there
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2021-05-21 21:59:36	davros	somene sat down one day and said "ah lets change it to this"
2021-05-21 22:00:03	davros	it was all maleable in the public for several years
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2021-05-21 22:00:32	davros	i'll eventually want an IDE plugin to do that flip
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2021-05-21 22:01:01	davros	also every other time you see a trait..
2021-05-21 22:01:12	davros	it's  "Type : Trait"
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2021-05-21 22:01:23	davros	<Type as Trait>
2021-05-21 22:01:35	davros	"where  X:Trait"
2021-05-21 22:01:45	davros	it just makes no sense to have it flipped
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2021-05-21 22:45:39	jbg	meh
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2021-05-21 23:33:23	AstrallyForged	.hg davros: `impl for $type $trait` :3
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2021-05-22 00:55:11	dwigton	If I want all the items in a vec after a certain value, I can `my_vec.iter().rev().take_while(...).collect()` but the result will be reversed. Is there a reverse collect?
2021-05-22 00:56:13	jbg	you could use skip_while instead?
2021-05-22 00:56:40	dwigton	Oh perfect
2021-05-22 00:57:21	jbg	fwiw, a reverse collect would just be calling rev() again before collect()
2021-05-22 00:57:42	jbg	although that may not work if it's not a double-ended iterator
2021-05-22 00:57:56	dwigton	It didn't seem to like it.
2021-05-22 00:57:56	jbg	you could also reverse the vec after collecting. but in any case skip_while is the way here.
2021-05-22 00:59:05	dwigton	yeah. There are so many iterator methods, I at times have trouble parsing whether the function I want exists, but the name is pretty indicative in this case.
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2021-05-22 01:00:11	jbg	yeah, the descriptions are usually very clear though (but that does require potentially reading a lot of descriptions before you find the one you want)
2021-05-22 01:01:54	dwigton	The documentation is good. It is just a race to get to the correct method before my brain siezes up.
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2021-05-22 10:25:46	davros	so if index(i) didn't retutn &T ... anyone user of an "indexable type" would have to write a more complex expressino to get 'T'  eg   T::deref<Target=X>, to extract the inner thing,
2021-05-22 10:26:33	davros	"^to extrac the type held in the container"
2021-05-22 10:27:56	davros	is there any hope that generic associated types/defaulted associated types could retrofit a generic relationship between "the actual return of index()" and "the type you get from "*f.index(i)" ie "f[i]"..
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2021-05-22 10:29:53	davros	trait FutureIndex {   type Output = <Self::RawOutput as deref>::Target;  type RawOutput=&Self::Output;  // "override either one of those, and the other is calculated from it"
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2021-05-22 10:47:19	libertas	hi, I just want to compile a rust software but don't know how to overcome this problem.
2021-05-22 10:47:22	libertas	error: failed to get `bytes` as a dependency of package `scavenger v1.8.0
2021-05-22 10:47:35	libertas	failed to fetch `https://github.com/rust-lang/crates.io-index`
2021-05-22 10:47:48	libertas	failed to authenticate when downloading repository: git@github.com:rust-lang/crates.io-index
2021-05-22 10:48:02	libertas	error authenticating: no auth sock variable; class=Ssh
2021-05-22 10:49:30	libertas	what to do?  Do I have to supply any credentials to github?
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2021-05-22 11:03:13	dwigton	If I have a type `struct MyType (Vec<SomeType>);` How can I make MyType iterable? Do I need to save a counter and index into MyType.0 in an `impl Iterator`?
2021-05-22 11:04:18	dwigton	I thought I could just call self.0.next() in the impl next function. It is saying no method named next.
2021-05-22 11:04:53	dwigton	Oh wait.
2021-05-22 11:07:45	dwigton	Bah rembered to use `self.0.iter().next()` but of course that is a reference and it needs to be owned.
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2021-05-22 13:14:17	GreenJello	dwigton, you could impl IntoIterator, but to impl Iterator directly you'd need additional state, or for the struct to hold an Iterator
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2021-05-22 13:29:50	davros	would it be evil to make a fn from<T:From<X>,X>(X)->T ... analogous to default() .. rust 'constructors syntax' with T::foo()' always gave me a negative sensation but when you can shortcut with inference , its nice)
2021-05-22 13:30:36	davros	(i realise that in rust we dont just write T(foo) because 'T' is a typename wheras function names are in a seprate namespace..)
2021-05-22 13:31:57	davros	from(x) ==  x.into()  ...   but i've ran into needing "(&x).into()"  , writing from(&x) is more pleasant
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2021-05-22 13:35:39	GreenJello	davros, https://github.com/taiki-e/syn-serde/blob/main/src/lib.rs#L324
2021-05-22 13:36:00	GreenJello	came across this recently which seems to solve for that better
2021-05-22 13:36:34	davros	what is that in relation to, "from" or indexing stuff i talk about above
2021-05-22 13:36:50	davros	oh "ref into"  ,into() ?
2021-05-22 13:37:09	davros	so you write  x.ref_into()  ok
2021-05-22 13:37:17	davros	trailing style, nice
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2021-05-22 13:39:47	davros	its a strange issue
2021-05-22 13:40:31	davros	i generally prefer how rust works , i like getting rid of the idea of a seperate "constructor", but after writing C++ for so long, losing that straightforward T(args) does break intuition and cause discomfort
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2021-05-22 13:40:51	davros	so i like having these single functionsn to construct things ("fn default<T>()"  etc)
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2021-05-22 13:43:06	danieldg	davros: a function called new is pretty common, which should make C++ people comfortable
2021-05-22 13:43:32	davros	danieldg, quite the opposite. new is a keyword in c++ , so seeing it as a function name causes extreme discomfort
2021-05-22 13:43:52	j`ey	lol
2021-05-22 13:43:53	davros	new is related to *allocation* not iniitlization
2021-05-22 13:44:04	davros	(in c++ intuition)
2021-05-22 13:44:14	danieldg	I'm quite aware, yes
2021-05-22 13:44:57	davros	'overloading operator new = writing custom allocators..'
2021-05-22 13:45:02	danieldg	maybe it makes Java people comfortable then
2021-05-22 13:45:25	davros	'from' and 'default' on the other hand.. sit fine with me
2021-05-22 13:47:08	davros	i'm sure that half the objections you hear to rust are because people just get these "intuitive" negative senstaions, so they *invent* (false) technical objections
2021-05-22 13:48:32	davros	people like myself had no choice but C++ for ~20 years,  its not like the web world where there's a multitude of viable options so you dont get so narrowed
2021-05-22 13:48:55	davros	infact rust arguably still isn't a choice for me.. if i needed a job tommorow, it would be C++
2021-05-22 13:49:48	danieldg	int new(int class, bool public) { return class + public ? 4 : 2; }
2021-05-22 13:49:57	danieldg	perfectly valid C
2021-05-22 13:50:02	dfdx	are there any examples of device drivers written in Rust that I could take a look at? Doesn't matter what the device is, tbh.
2021-05-22 13:50:38	davros	C++ pretty much reached a status where it's as defacto as C, because it was unchallenged for so long
2021-05-22 13:51:04	davros	heh yeah you get sourcecode where people use the name 'klass' as workaround for that
2021-05-22 13:51:05	danieldg	dfdx: maybe look at the framework proposals for the linux rust kernel modules to see if they reference examples?
2021-05-22 13:51:45	j`ey	they have some simple character driver, but i dont think it does much
2021-05-22 13:52:01	danieldg	davros: if you want to make life hard on a C++ programmer, just export a symbol calld "class" and require people to use it for your API :)
2021-05-22 13:52:34	danieldg	I'm not sure you can use it without invoking dlsym
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2021-05-22 15:15:46	dexter	Hi! I have a Vec of type &str, and i need to append a new item to it, but the new item needs to be formatted at runtime, how can i do that? When just doing annoying_vec.push(&*format!("static/{}", from_runtime)), i get the error that it creates a temporary which is freed while still in use
2021-05-22 15:16:09	dexter	I'm working on someone else's lib, so changing it to a Vec<String> isn't a viable option
2021-05-22 15:16:37	danieldg	assign the String output of format! to a temporary variable
2021-05-22 15:17:04	danieldg	that variable must last for longer than the vec
2021-05-22 15:17:06	dexter	i did that, but that value'll get dropped anyway, because the vec will get parsed to other functions
2021-05-22 15:17:14	dexter	A*parsed = passed
2021-05-22 15:17:44	danieldg	then that variable needs to be higher up in the call stack
2021-05-22 15:18:00	dexter	I guess 'ill do that then, thanks
2021-05-22 15:18:19	georgemp	hi. are there any guides to doing CI (gitlab) with nested crates - a main crate and a ffi crate. I imagine if i had a single .gitlab-ci.yml at the root, any pushes to the ffi crate would result in CI running for both the main and ffi crates?
2021-05-22 15:19:27	danieldg	github might be smart enough to let you examine the diff and short-circuit some tests if the code hasn't change
2021-05-22 15:19:46	danieldg	I think I saw that feature in gitlab
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2021-05-22 15:21:28	georgemp	interesting..let me see if i can find that (just might be simpler to have a new ffi crate outside the main crate though i guess)
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2021-05-22 16:03:52	davros	has anyone else in the community requested method syntax for macros
2021-05-22 16:04:11	davros	eg imagine if you could write  "file.write!(.....blah.blah...)"
2021-05-22 16:05:17	danieldg	it wouldn't be quite as useful as normal function calls, but it could be useful I guess
2021-05-22 16:05:41	davros	a $self macro parameter basically...  (I think it would be limited to expressions, and it would be equivalent to  {let temp_self=$self; the_macro!(temp_self,...rest of the args)}
2021-05-22 16:06:10	danieldg	first, I'd rather get File::open(path).match { Ok(f) => {...}, Err... }
2021-05-22 16:06:40	davros	i know that they rejected ideas like "variadic function args" and so on because they wanted you to use macros instead ("the macro feature handles it and we want one way of doing each thing")
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2021-05-22 16:07:29	davros	but the macro calls stick out alongside method calls, and code codes thorugh a maturation cycle where you cahnge things.. a syntax change for a call  is irritating ("this part of the API is a method / that part is a macro..")
2021-05-22 16:07:37	davros	it is just a sugar thing admitedly
2021-05-22 16:08:17	davros	and equally i recall they are keen to optimise lanuage complexity but the macro system happens in a seperate layer, as such should avoid "unforseen interactions"
2021-05-22 16:09:03	danieldg	actually you might be able to do this today
2021-05-22 16:09:07	davros	its quite far down on my wishlist though. my #1 thing is 32bit index ergonmomics :)
2021-05-22 16:09:18	danieldg	well, maybe not
2021-05-22 16:09:29	davros	i sohuld take a look at procedural macros, for new toys ive yet to try out
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2021-05-22 16:33:57	emerent	davros: it's an idea that's been floating around for a long time
2021-05-22 16:34:31	emerent	there are some difficulties with the compiler passes, i.e. a macro doesn't have access to type information because the type checker hasn't run by that point
2021-05-22 16:35:28	emerent	so macros for specific types (a common use case) wouldn't work for that
2021-05-22 16:36:20	emerent	Syntactic sugar for macro!($self, …) would, but how desirable that is may be contentious
2021-05-22 16:36:32	emerent	I'm sure there's an old RFC for some variant of this
2021-05-22 16:36:33	davros	emerent, yeah i do not imagine this being type-aware at all
2021-05-22 16:37:02	davros	cases like the "self.write!(a,b,c..)" the macro would be pure sugar for  "self.write(a); self.write(b); self.write(c) .."
2021-05-22 16:37:35	davros	just "ways of making n-ary wrappers" and the rest is down to convention
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2021-05-22 16:38:14	emerent	and variadics (and relatedly variadic generics) probably just needs a good design people can agree on
2021-05-22 16:38:43	davros	i think it was a philosophical choice to keep that in the macro system, and keep the funciton mechanism in the lanugage simpler
2021-05-22 16:39:17	davros	i think i'd rather see the "method macros" than variadic args/generics etc
2021-05-22 16:43:23	emerent	here's an RFC for postfix macros: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2442
2021-05-22 16:44:14	emerent	interestingly with recent support by nikomatsakis
2021-05-22 16:44:28	davros	emerent, thanks i upvoted
2021-05-22 16:44:53	davros	emerent, yeah that RFC is probably exactly what i had in mind.
2021-05-22 16:45:15	emerent	and a POC macro-based version on stable rust: https://docs.rs/postfix-macros/0.1.0/postfix_macros/
2021-05-22 16:45:22	emerent	not production ready
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2021-05-22 16:58:01	davros	emerent, yeah i've just read the detail of the RFC, and it is exactly 100% what i watned
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2021-05-22 18:44:49	mattfly	What rust GUI lib can handle utf8 characteres pretty well, which is most mature?
2021-05-22 18:47:05	danieldg	pretty sure they all have at least basic utf8 support
2021-05-22 18:50:59	mattfly	well druid has none for input
2021-05-22 18:51:14	mattfly	unless i did smt wrong
2021-05-22 18:52:23	mattfly	https://github.com/linebender/druid/blob/v0.6.0/druid/examples/hello.rs on this example i can't like enter ç or ś on the textbox
2021-05-22 18:56:39	danieldg	huh.  Well, I never really dealt with input, but that seems like something to call a bug in druid
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2021-05-22 20:59:43	davros	refactoring things in rust is definitely more pleasant than in c++
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2021-05-23 00:05:38	w0x12ef	what is the diff between box and refcell
2021-05-23 00:09:31	danieldg	lots.  Read the docs.
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2021-05-23 01:26:39	davros	when one is not indexing into arrays... rust is an absolute joy to write
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2021-05-23 04:12:34	histrio	Hi! How sould I reconstruct a struct to not get a garbage https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=059e8bb23f7db2ec9bf7e61f846280f9 ?
2021-05-23 04:12:48	histrio	*should
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2021-05-23 05:26:48	folaht	There exists embedded databases that stores everything into a file right?
2021-05-23 05:27:10	folaht	What's a good crate for that?
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2021-05-23 05:35:06	folaht	Ah, found it! Thank everyone!
2021-05-23 05:35:24	folaht	Should have searched the forum first.
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2021-05-23 08:11:28	s1341_	what's the best (and fastest) way to work with bitstreams/strings in rust.
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2021-05-23 08:14:19	untitled	Hi. How can I print f64 with no trailing zeroes?
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2021-05-23 08:15:05	untitled	if there are some, then print at most 4 with school math rounding, but if no, just print int
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2021-05-23 08:21:34	davros	can't remember the {:?} formating stuff for it but maybe as a hack you could conver to *f32* to print *fewer* trailing zeros, lol
2021-05-23 08:22:06	untitled	:D
2021-05-23 08:22:15	davros	%.3f in C format strings, i wonder if they do {:3f} by anology or something
2021-05-23 08:22:40	untitled	is there anything not from C?
2021-05-23 08:22:48	demize	{:.0f}
2021-05-23 08:23:00	davros	"{:04}" = leading zero control
2021-05-23 08:23:33	demize	Err, no f..
2021-05-23 08:24:06	davros	{:4.4} would give 4 leading 4 trailing maybe :)
2021-05-23 08:24:27	demize	But if you want to print a different number of digits depending on the value, you need actual logic for that.
2021-05-23 08:24:59	davros	ok you can only control leading or tailing it seems
2021-05-23 08:25:15	untitled	{:.0f} doesn't work
2021-05-23 08:25:26	demize	Yeah, no f.
2021-05-23 08:26:01	untitled	emm, it removes decimal alltogether
2021-05-23 08:26:09	davros	{.4} gives me 4 decimal places
2021-05-23 08:26:26	untitled	but I want them only if they exist
2021-05-23 08:26:55	davros	i can't find how to print "N significant figures"
2021-05-23 08:27:04	demize	You can't do that with std::fmt, you would need actual logic for that.
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2021-05-23 08:27:35	untitled	just when you think they made a *normal* PL for 2020s
2021-05-23 08:27:39	davros	maybe we need the BF16 crate, convert from f32 to BF16 to print with fewer significant places :)
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2021-05-23 08:28:07	davros	all they have to do is make i32 indexing pleasant in 64bit mode and I can declare rust PERFECT.
2021-05-23 08:28:18	j`ey	lol
2021-05-23 08:28:29	davros	the contrast in experience is remarkable
2021-05-23 08:28:44	davros	i can experience pure joy doing huge refactors of 7 year old code
2021-05-23 08:30:00	davros	but as soon as i try and do some basic  indexing it's just pain
2021-05-23 08:30:26	davros	youve got bounds checks
2021-05-23 08:30:42	davros	so why should you be precluded from indexing with any int type
2021-05-23 08:30:59	davros	doing the bounds check on the raw type would be less error prone than casting it first
2021-05-23 08:32:39	davros	ccould we not just rename [] within the bounds of a crate, like you can use any other symbol
2021-05-23 08:33:00	davros	i can make .at(x) work fine, i just need to swap the names [] -> .index,   .at -> []
2021-05-23 08:33:04	j`ey	it would be way better to write on the internals forum, than just repeating it endlessly here :|
2021-05-23 08:33:20	davros	i tried that 6,7 years ago
2021-05-23 08:33:54	davros	and i even mentioned vgather back then.
2021-05-23 08:35:13	davros	i forgot how long i've been working on this little peice of code on and off
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2021-05-23 08:35:25	davros	i found some  [T,..4] in half written parts lol
2021-05-23 08:35:37	davros	and some matches from before if let existed
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2021-05-23 08:46:16	davros	ok the refcounted types:
2021-05-23 08:46:27	davros	Rc<T> - single threaded, read only when there's multiple refs, right?
2021-05-23 08:46:43	davros	Arc<T> - multi threaded / read only still?
2021-05-23 08:47:20	davros	wait i'm using Arc<Mutex<>>   for multithreaded /r/w access , thats working fine
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2021-05-23 08:49:06	davros	what i was looking for was   'Single-threaded,  one view of it can attempt to mutate' (i.e in my code i have a scope block in which i know all of them wont change, and another wheere they will .. )
2021-05-23 08:49:24	davros	i presume with Rc theres no way it can prove , so it would need a flag
2021-05-23 08:49:45	davros	and some kind of lock/unlock
2021-05-23 08:49:59	davros	   is it called cell or seomthing
2021-05-23 08:50:39	davros	still not "multithreaded", i dont need the Arc cost..
2021-05-23 08:52:20	davros	https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/cell/struct.RefCell.html  << this might be what i need?
2021-05-23 08:52:59	davros	Rc<RefCell<>>
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2021-05-23 09:04:16	davros	https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch15-05-interior-mutability.html   <<< so this confirms it is Rc<RefCel<T>> that i'd need,
2021-05-23 09:05:35	davros	can anyone comment on the overhead - presumably its just 'a bool' (but it'll pad out),but that is only in one place (the target),   the "multiple owners" are still only a single pointer to that - and the runtime overhead is just "check the flag", right?
2021-05-23 09:06:41	davros	(in practice, I also know that the there's a scope block in which mutation happens , in c++ i would have just gone ahead and mutated , but this may have been brittle if i came back to it years later lol)
2021-05-23 09:06:58	j`ey	RefCell contains an isize
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2021-05-23 09:07:18	davros	ok.
2021-05-23 09:08:00	davros	(having to resist another rant about parameterised counts, "imaigne if i could have packed a u32 refcount with a u32 borrow flag")
2021-05-23 09:08:34	davros	in this particular case the cost of that isize is 0.1% ballpark so i wont fret
2021-05-23 09:09:06	davros	(but thats a definite usecase for parameterised counts)
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2021-05-23 09:10:04	bertptrs	you know it's a meme at this point
2021-05-23 09:10:32	davros	so this 'isize' is a borrow count i guess
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2021-05-23 09:11:06	bertptrs	Correct, positive for read borrows, negative for mutable borrows
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2021-05-23 09:11:59	bertptrs	although it will panic if you try to borrow it when not allowed, so your code needs to deal with that
2021-05-23 09:12:54	davros	maybe  i could make something custom to express my use case
2021-05-23 09:13:05	j`ey	or use try_borrow_mut
2021-05-23 09:13:25	bertptrs	i.e. deal with that
2021-05-23 09:13:37	davros	if i'm using it right the panic will never happen. that will in effect be a test that alerts me if i break the logical rules i had
2021-05-23 09:13:44	j`ey	yeah
2021-05-23 09:13:46	bertptrs	Good, that'
2021-05-23 09:13:52	bertptrs	s the idea of the behaviour
2021-05-23 09:14:08	davros	now what i could setup that would still be rusty in spirit would be
2021-05-23 09:14:58	davros	a single shared global flag
2021-05-23 09:15:18	davros	"outside this region, you may only borrow immutably"
2021-05-23 09:15:45	j`ey	AtomicBool?
2021-05-23 09:15:51	davros	"inside this region you may only borrow mutably once" / 2 flags.. ("in / out of the region")
2021-05-23 09:16:21	davros	honestly at a 0.1% memory overhead i dont mind here though , the library tools are good enough
2021-05-23 09:16:32	davros	0.1-0.01% even
2021-05-23 09:17:27	davros	but thats the use case i had in mind.   --time-->  [  ---read only access by many things ---] [ --single updates--]
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2021-05-23 09:21:57	davros	there was another pattern i had that avoided this issue , but probably similar runtime cost (i.e. an extra pointer-chase to get at the resource)
2021-05-23 09:22:25	davros	infact that was probably a bigger runtime cost (and made the system messier)
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2021-05-23 09:39:54	davros	hmm the solutinos I have in mind boil back to the same thing.. passing around *another object* that controls access to the shared resources
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2021-05-23 09:40:42	davros	guarded_thing.my_borrow(&thing_that_says_youre_in_a_safe_reading_scope)   guarded_thing.my_borrow_mut(&thing_that_says_youre_in_a_safe_mutating_scope)
2021-05-23 09:41:36	davros	that would be pretty similar to what i had before... ("real_owner.get_read_only(&my_resource_ref)" / ..)
2021-05-23 09:42:30	davros	no escapimg it without an unecasery flag in memory (the original way and this open the possibility of multithreaded read only access in the safe zone))
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2021-05-23 12:03:51	bertptrs	Is there a way to get multiple mutable references to items in a HashMap? I can't think of one, but it would save me a hashmap access per item. I know that the keys in my set are distinct.
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2021-05-23 12:12:59	Alexendoo	bertptrs: hashbrown recently got that (nightly only), so perhaps at some point in the future std can get it too. But I don't think there is a way currently
2021-05-23 12:13:20	Alexendoo	https://docs.rs/hashbrown/0.11.2/hashbrown/struct.HashMap.html#method.get_each_mut
2021-05-23 12:13:47	bertptrs	Hmm, the size of my key set is not a compile time constant so that won't work
2021-05-23 12:15:52	bertptrs	I'm looking for behaviour similar to iter_mut + filter, but with the regular hashmap level of performance
2021-05-23 12:18:53	bertptrs	Something like get_all_mut<Q>(&mut self, keys: &[Q]) -> Vec<Result<(&K, &mut V), UnavailableMutError>> or something
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2021-05-23 12:23:58	Alexendoo	I think you could adapt the get_each_mut on RawTable to use work like that, seems like the stuff it uses is public
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2021-05-23 12:28:43	Alexendoo	Oh though it doesn't seem like there's a public way to go from HashMap <-> RawTable
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2021-05-23 12:35:26	bertptrs	I could probably fix my problem more easily by going immutable with a Cell; and that might actually be a lot easier
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2021-05-23 12:36:11	bertptrs	(I only need to update one field in the value struct, and it's guaranteed to be Copy)
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2021-05-23 12:41:20	bertptrs	That works pretty well actually, that way I can remove both HashMap accesses and some more elsewhere
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2021-05-23 15:06:19	dwigton	Is there a way to have nested iterators that return to the outer loop occasionally but then continue the inner loop where it left off? Call next() manually?
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2021-05-23 15:07:06	danieldg	if proper use of .by_ref() doesn't work, then yes
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2021-05-23 15:11:04	dwigton	danieldg: oh interesting. So I could, in theory, `break;` on my inner loop and as long as it is `by_ref` it should just start up again?
2021-05-23 15:11:34	danieldg	if you use the same iterator, then yes
2021-05-23 15:12:13	danieldg	note that if the outer iterator advances you won't be
2021-05-23 15:13:01	danieldg	also, this can easily go off-spec if you don't use fused iterators
2021-05-23 15:14:20	dwigton	but I can declare the inner iterator outside the outer. `let my_itr = some_vec.iter().as_ref()`
2021-05-23 15:14:40	danieldg	no
2021-05-23 15:15:19	danieldg	let my_iter = vec.iter(); for i in my_iter.by_ref() { break; } for i in my_iter.by_ref() { more }
2021-05-23 15:18:13	dwigton	let my_iter = vec.iter(); for j in other.iter(){ for i in my_iter.by_ref() { break; } }
2021-05-23 15:18:42	danieldg	yep
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2021-05-23 15:20:10	dwigton	Thank you. should be much cleaner than the indexing nonsense I was doing.
2021-05-23 15:25:01	georgemp	any users of ffi_support? is there any way to run an async fn in the callback to this method https://docs.rs/ffi-support/0.4.2/src/ffi_support/handle_map.rs.html#895-901 ? The callback method takes in a reference, and is a sync method. The only way I can think of running an async method is to tokio::spawn a task, but, I don't see a way to pass the reference param into the spawned task
2021-05-23 15:26:19	danieldg	georgemp: you have to finish using the reference before starting the async part of the function
2021-05-23 15:26:37	danieldg	usually this means cloning the value before tokio::spawn'ing
2021-05-23 15:27:08	georgemp	danieldg: ah ok..thanks
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2021-05-23 15:27:48	danieldg	if it's a big value you might want to only clone parts of it, or something
2021-05-23 15:28:14	danieldg	but the caller can give you something on their stack, which is dropped just after you return
2021-05-23 15:28:39	bone-baboon	I was reading an announcement about HyperbolaBSD <https://www.hyperbola.info/news/announcing-hyperbolabsd-roadmap/> which is dated 2019-12-21. That announcement makes the claim that there are freedom issues with Rust and links to this article <https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:rusts_freedom_flaws>. This announcement was made over a year ago. Has Rust's trademark issue mentioned in that article been resolved
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2021-05-23 15:30:31	danieldg	bone-baboon: so debian isn't going to create a language called iron-oxide that is strangely similar to rust?  (like what happened with iceweasel)
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2021-05-23 15:32:46	bone-baboon	I was curious if this is even an accurate claim.
2021-05-23 15:32:51	SpaceManiac	bone-baboon: the trademarks are now owned by the Rust Foundation rather than Mozilla, but the Rust Media Guide has not been updated to reflect this
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2021-05-23 15:34:02	lifeless	bone-baboon: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/53287 is closed by https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/59748
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2021-05-23 15:38:30	lifeless	bone-baboon: whether you consider is a freedom issue or not is a matter of viewpoint - debian doesn't seem to care at this point, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=cargo shows no bugs open related to trademarks
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2021-05-23 15:46:37	CowsAreFriend	debian and mozilla resolved the issue over firefox and related products so I can't imagine the trademark issue suddenly resurfacing with rust
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2021-05-23 15:52:15	bone-baboon	SpaceManiac: Thanks
2021-05-23 15:52:21	bone-baboon	lifeless: Thanks
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2021-05-23 16:11:06	bone-baboon	CowsAreFriend: Thanks
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2021-05-23 16:14:42	bone-baboon	danieldg: I does not sound like it based on what lifeless said. You did pick a great name for it though.
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2021-05-23 16:59:10	b0nn	So, I just tried asking on libera about readings I should be doing to architect my first rust app, but nobody has been able to give a satisfactory answer - and I though i'd try here too
2021-05-23 16:59:27	b0nn	What sshould I be reading WRT rust specific design/arch/patterns
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2021-05-23 17:04:42	thement	I follow the RSOSAWBSE principle when not sure how to write something in rust
2021-05-23 17:04:49	thement	and I usually do prototype out of cardboard first
2021-05-23 17:09:24	davros	maybe i could fork the rust compiler itself to do [] remapping
2021-05-23 17:09:40	davros	i wonder how much effort it would be to maintain a personal fork of rust
2021-05-23 17:13:09	j`ey	a lot more work than just using a deref-d wrapper
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2021-05-23 17:13:28	GreenJello	depends on if you leverage that in your fork of the compiler
2021-05-23 17:13:43	GreenJello	if you do, then it's going to be really painful to build from scratch at some point
2021-05-23 17:14:12	davros	i i can accept the compiler using 64bit indices everywhere, like  just incase i write more than 4billion lines of code
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2021-05-23 17:16:28	davros	j`ey, the "write my own At trait and impl it for various types" goes more smoothly than writing a wrapped vector
2021-05-23 17:16:37	davros	so it boils down to syntax
2021-05-23 17:16:59	davros	if i just write ".at(i)" instead of "[i]" everything can be seamless
2021-05-23 17:17:16	davros	and if [] can map to at on request, it stops stabbing me in the eye
2021-05-23 17:17:46	j`ey	I dont see why that's better than a MyVec that Deref's to Vec
2021-05-23 17:18:02	davros	at can be impl'd for library types
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2021-05-23 17:19:06	davros	its like i want Vec in my own datastructures, because unlike C++, i have actually got used to the idea of using a standard library at all
2021-05-23 17:19:54	davros	wrapping a type is more like inheritance. implementing a new interface on it is more like extention (superior)
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2021-05-23 21:10:56	davros	do i remember right using a .words() iterator for strings in rust, eg
2021-05-23 21:11:20	davros	for line in text.lines() { for word in line.words() { ...  } } // i seem to remember being able to do that..
2021-05-23 21:11:32	GreenJello	maybe from unic-segment?
2021-05-23 21:11:48	GreenJello	not in std afaik
2021-05-23 21:11:52	danieldg	split_whitespace
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2021-05-23 21:13:36	davros	thanks. i guess it was pre 1.0
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2021-05-23 21:17:16	davros	i have to keep reminding myself why i'm here after running into indexing friction.  processing text with this standard library is very pleasant.
2021-05-23 21:17:42	davros	having this functional style stuff  in systems code
2021-05-23 21:23:37	danieldg	serde is also very nice when your text is just a bit more complex
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2021-05-24 21:22:53	davros	i see iter .partiion() and Vec.sort(), sort_by_key ... is it possible to sort a *mutable slice* inplace?
2021-05-24 21:25:03	Mutabah	`.sort()` is a slice metod
2021-05-24 21:27:30	davros	oh ok
2021-05-24 21:28:23	davros	hah wasn't finding it because it was opening an iterator first.
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2021-05-24 21:44:31	danieldg	yeah, sorting an iterator is hard
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2021-05-25 01:59:20	jacklong	how to create one int value on the heap
2021-05-25 02:00:15	Mutabah	`Box::new(1234)`
2021-05-25 02:00:17	Mutabah	But why?
2021-05-25 02:00:35	jacklong	Mutabah, ok. then how can I modify its value to 100
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2021-05-25 02:02:22	rk4	i think you should answer the "But why?" part first
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2021-05-25 02:04:57	jacklong	why not
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2021-05-25 02:08:33	Mutabah	`*boxed_val = 100;` is how you'd modify it
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2021-05-25 02:09:12	Mutabah	And "why not" - Boxing adds indirection, and memory overheads - all of which are added costs for a basic integer
2021-05-25 02:09:23	Mutabah	(which on most modern platforms will be smaller than the pointer)
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2021-05-25 02:12:22	rk4	we can only guess at why you're wanting to do this, it might be that you want to modify this int from different places, which might make Box::new(int) inadequate
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2021-05-25 02:14:08	jacklong	the int value is a interior  one pointer
2021-05-25 02:14:27	jacklong	which need to be maintained
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2021-05-25 02:55:04	jacklong	value can be moved and reference can be borrowed ,right ?
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2021-05-25 03:28:14	jbg	no, that's a very garbled way of putting it
2021-05-25 03:28:31	jbg	references are a type of value anyway
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2021-05-25 03:29:18	jbg	you have a value of type T, you can borrow it to get a value of type &T, which you can borrow again to get a value of type &&T if you want
2021-05-25 03:29:27	jbg	you have a value of type T, you can move it and it's still a value of type T
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2021-05-25 03:37:48	jacklong	hmm
2021-05-25 03:38:19	jacklong	how about std::string::String and alloc:string::String
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2021-05-25 03:39:04	Mutabah	They
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2021-05-25 03:39:08	Mutabah	They're the same type
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2021-05-25 03:40:22	jacklong	ok
2021-05-25 03:40:25	jacklong	 alloc::string::String {vec: alloc::vec::Vec<u8, alloc::alloc::Global> {buf: alloc::raw_vec::RawVec<u8, alloc::alloc::Global> {ptr: core::ptr::unique::Unique<u8> {pointer: 0x84485d0 "123 1409846", ' ' <repeats 12 times>, "/!\n\002\000", _marker: core::marker::PhantomData<u8>}, cap: 3, alloc: alloc::alloc::Global}, len: 3}}
2021-05-25 03:40:38	jacklong	how do I understand this {{{ xxx }}}
2021-05-25 03:41:11	jacklong	what is ptr inner the { buf
2021-05-25 03:41:12	Mutabah	Where is that from?
2021-05-25 03:41:20	jacklong	Mutabah, debuger
2021-05-25 03:41:28	Mutabah	What are you wanting to understand?
2021-05-25 03:41:39	jacklong	{buf: alloc::raw_vec::RawVec<u8, alloc::alloc::Global> {ptr
2021-05-25 03:41:46	jacklong	this ptr
2021-05-25 03:41:55	Mutabah	That's the exploded structure of a `String`
2021-05-25 03:42:01	jacklong	yeah
2021-05-25 03:42:15	jacklong	type = struct alloc::string::String {
2021-05-25 03:42:15	jacklong	  vec: alloc::vec::Vec<u8, alloc::alloc::Global>,
2021-05-25 03:42:15	jacklong	}
2021-05-25 03:42:31	Mutabah	The actual pointer is just after `pointer: `
2021-05-25 03:42:39	Mutabah	and there's `cap` and `len` as well
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2021-05-25 03:42:48	jacklong	yeah ,it is
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2021-05-25 03:43:09	jacklong	but i want to know where is the {buf xxx }
2021-05-25 03:43:16	jacklong	the buf is what mean
2021-05-25 03:43:31	Mutabah	You're asing where all that is stored?
2021-05-25 03:43:36	Mutabah	It's inline
2021-05-25 03:44:08	jacklong	the buf is belong the outer vec  ?
2021-05-25 03:44:56	jacklong	cannot understand this form of representation of type print
2021-05-25 03:45:23	jacklong	three layer of "{"
2021-05-25 03:45:56	jacklong	is this lteral of the String ?
2021-05-25 03:46:03	jbg	it's a RawVec which is inside a Vec which is inside a String
2021-05-25 03:46:05	jbg	that's why three layers
2021-05-25 03:46:28	jbg	a String is basically just a Vec interpreted as UTF-8
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2021-05-25 03:47:20	jacklong	cool
2021-05-25 03:47:31	jacklong	but what is the syntax of this form printed
2021-05-25 03:47:57	jbg	what do you mean
2021-05-25 03:48:16	jacklong	{vec:xxx {buf :xxx {
2021-05-25 03:48:43	jbg	it's your debugger's syntax isn't it?
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2021-05-25 03:49:04	jbg	it's just printing the fields of each struct
2021-05-25 03:49:24	jbg	https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/alloc/string.rs.html#279-281
2021-05-25 03:49:36	jbg	https://doc.rust-lang.org/src/alloc/vec/mod.rs.html#374-377
2021-05-25 03:49:59	jacklong	ok
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2021-05-25 03:52:31	jbg	if you're using gdb, consider using rust-gdb, which loads some formatter plugins so that types like String and Vec are printed in a friendlier way
2021-05-25 03:52:51	jbg	and similarly lldb -> rust-lldb
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2021-05-25 03:54:55	rnmhdn	Hi
2021-05-25 03:54:59	rnmhdn	How can I securely generate jwt tokens in rust?
2021-05-25 03:55:16	rnmhdn	I  need to use JWE tokens in an Actix project. I have seen this and this But I'm looking for something that is under continuous development.
2021-05-25 03:55:24	rnmhdn	https://github.com/Keats/jsonwebtoken
2021-05-25 03:55:27	rnmhdn	https://github.com/actix/actix-extras/tree/master/actix-web-httpauth
2021-05-25 03:59:13	corvax	vscode has good debugger integration
2021-05-25 03:59:39	jacklong	is it safe to return string  which is  at the stack
2021-05-25 03:59:50	Mutabah	A `String` yes
2021-05-25 04:00:14	jacklong	will it be droped at the end of the  function stack
2021-05-25 04:00:35	Mutabah	returning it passes ownership of the managed buffer to the caller
2021-05-25 04:00:47	Mutabah	by "moving" the `String` value itself
2021-05-25 04:01:01	corvax	the compiler is pretty good at warning you if your object isn't going to live past the function call
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2021-05-25 04:01:57	Mutabah	^
2021-05-25 04:02:20	Mutabah	If the compiler lets you do it, and you don't use `unsafe` - then it's safe and won't do crazy things
2021-05-25 04:02:31	Mutabah	(worst case is that it will panic, which is a controlled crash)
2021-05-25 04:06:05	jbg	rnmhdn: I use `biscuit`, which is maintained, although since it's feature-complete for most JWT use-cases it's not under heavily active development (and nor should it be)
2021-05-25 04:06:24	jacklong	Mutabah, that have no guarantee ?
2021-05-25 04:06:54	Mutabah	What do you mean?
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2021-05-25 04:09:30	jacklong	I mean the string will not be droped ,if it is moved to caller , can be safely used without concern
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2021-05-25 04:12:15	emerent	jacklong: unless you use unsafe {}, nothing you do will allow accidental memory corruption
2021-05-25 04:12:21	emerent	there is no use after free in Rust
2021-05-25 04:12:52	rnmhdn	jbg: I wouldn't call it feature-complete but thanks:D I will look into it:)
2021-05-25 04:13:13	jacklong	emerent, the string is freed after its scope ?
2021-05-25 04:13:23	jbg	I said feature-complete *for most JWT use-cases*, because it is
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2021-05-25 04:16:18	jbg	jacklong: it's freed when it's dropped, which is when the 'last owner' lets it go out of scope. it might be moved several times before that happens
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2021-05-25 04:16:39	jbg	jacklong: the key takeaway is that you *cannot* use-after-free in rust unless you use `unsafe {}`. the compiler won't allow it to happen
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2021-05-25 04:17:04	jbg	either your code is safe, or it doesn't compile
2021-05-25 04:17:33	jacklong	jbg, make sense
2021-05-25 04:18:36	jacklong	jbg, how can I get the  address of the Drop function at runtime
2021-05-25 04:18:48	jacklong	is it possbile ,
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2021-05-25 04:20:51	Mutabah	Why do you want it?
2021-05-25 04:20:56	Mutabah	Just to break on it?
2021-05-25 04:21:42	jacklong	Mutabah, yep,it is a guess
2021-05-25 04:22:27	Mutabah	Look for `String` and `drop` in the symbol list in your debugger
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2021-05-25 04:26:51	jacklong	oh
2021-05-25 04:27:37	jacklong	Mutabah, the native target cannot contain that symbol
2021-05-25 04:27:50	jacklong	jbg, ^
2021-05-25 04:28:33	Mutabah	cannot? Or "does not"?
2021-05-25 04:28:38	jbg	please cut out mentioning me in every message
2021-05-25 04:29:18	jacklong	Mutabah, cannot , I mean
2021-05-25 04:29:36	jacklong	what is the whole name of the Drop function
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2021-05-25 04:30:45	Mutabah	It's a long-ish mangled name that I don't know from memory
2021-05-25 04:30:59	jacklong	_ZN4core3ptr42drop_in_place$LT$alloc__string__String$GT$17h25f02e15a7639536E
2021-05-25 04:31:00	Mutabah	this is why I suggested searching the symbol list (which most debuggers allow)
2021-05-25 04:31:06	jacklong	I find this
2021-05-25 04:31:21	Mutabah	Close, but not quite
2021-05-25 04:31:21	jacklong	core::ptr::drop_in_place$LT$alloc..string..String$GT$::h25f02e15a7639536(alloc::string::String *)
2021-05-25 04:31:48	Mutabah	That one calls the drop impl, but isn't the drop impl
2021-05-25 04:32:11	jacklong	core::ptr::drop_in_place$LT$alloc..vec..Vec$LT$u8$GT$$GT$::h0f24066682f1c234(alloc::vec::Vec<u8,alloc::alloc::Global> *)
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2021-05-25 04:38:04	jacklong	core::ptr::drop_in_place$LT$alloc..vec..into_iter..IntoIter$LT$alloc..boxed..Box$LT$dyn$u20$core..ops..function..FnOnce$LT$$LP$$RP$$GT$$u2b$Output$u20$$u3d$$u20$$LP$$RP$$GT$$GT$$GT$::h43aa61cf4a2ef3a0 () at /rustc/9bc8c42bb2f19e745a63f3445f1ac248fb015e53/library/core/src/ptr/mod.rs:187
2021-05-25 04:38:13	jacklong	breake at this
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2021-05-25 04:39:15	Mutabah	What are you trying to do here?
2021-05-25 04:39:28	Mutabah	Still tying to break on a `String` being dropped?
2021-05-25 04:40:25	jbg	(and why?)
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2021-05-25 04:48:01	jacklong	ttrying to find the time when does it drop
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2021-05-25 04:49:04	jbg	you probably don't need a debugger to tell you that
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2021-05-25 05:33:15	jacklong	what is the type of return value of "iter.next()"
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2021-05-25 05:35:09	j`ey	Option<T>
2021-05-25 05:36:21	jacklong	not Option<&T> ?
2021-05-25 05:36:55	j`ey	see for yourself https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html#tymethod.next
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2021-05-25 05:38:32	osse	the T itself can be a reference, though, right?
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2021-05-25 05:40:40	j`ey	yes
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2021-05-25 10:52:39	flipchan	Check out https://rust.careers/, if your looking for some rust work
2021-05-25 10:54:24	ladyfriday	flipchan: please don't spam here
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2021-05-25 12:21:50	yuri6037	Hi, "you can't bypass UB" well I just did that: https://paste.gnome.org/pwb9liyqe
2021-05-25 12:22:17	yuri6037	forced stack allocation of 0 + transmute
2021-05-25 12:22:27	yuri6037	this apparently compiles
2021-05-25 12:23:14	 *	GreenJello roles a die once
2021-05-25 12:23:22	GreenJello	it's a 6, so must be a 6 every time
2021-05-25 12:23:28	yuri6037	it's perhaps UB for rust but considering the struct is a repr(C) it must respect what C wants which are pointers
2021-05-25 12:23:41	j`ey	that's not bypassing UB
2021-05-25 12:23:47	j`ey	youve got UB
2021-05-25 12:23:51	j`ey	lol
2021-05-25 12:24:26	yuri6037	I've got UB for Rust but considering this struct is only for use with C it must stay binary compatible with the underlying C struct.
2021-05-25 12:24:55	 *	j`ey tries to not get into this again
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2021-05-25 12:25:43	yuri6037	so it's unlikely to explode except if rust removes binary compatibility for this type of struct and for example ceases to use pointers as function pointers for repr(C)
2021-05-25 12:26:37	yuri6037	this is obviously unsafe on anything not repr(C) as I have no idea what the compiler will do but here we have repr(C) so it must stay ABI compatible with C
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2021-05-25 12:27:08	yuri6037	anyway I've got my fixed zeroed
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2021-05-25 13:00:11	yuri6037	j`ey: By the way, keep in mind that I don't like what I did. I was forced to write this code due to the underlying libz-sys crate being broken and they basically don't care it's broken... So I made this as a temporary fix until the devs of libz-sys finally tries to fix it.
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2021-05-25 13:56:57	dbe	This piece of code, is it safe?: Future::poll(unsafe { Pin::new_unchecked(&mut async { 8 }) }, &mut context);  I'm imagining that "async {8}" creates a function in the text-section of the ELF file, and &ref just creates a pointer to that function (on the stack)... am I correct in that assumption?
2021-05-25 13:57:37	danieldg	yes, it's the same mechanism as a normal closure
2021-05-25 13:58:42	dbe	is this still true when using closures that capture its environment?
2021-05-25 13:59:09	danieldg	all closures are unnamed structs that impl FnOnce
2021-05-25 13:59:26	danieldg	the contents of the struct are the captures, which may be a ZST
2021-05-25 14:00:06	danieldg	(well, async closure impl Future instead of FnOnce, but same in the end)
2021-05-25 14:00:22	dbe	hmm, ok, interesting...
2021-05-25 14:00:38	dbe	thanks
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2021-05-25 15:01:55	fuzzypixelz	hello! I wrote this small python program in the hopes of converting it to Rust: https://bpa.st/2JKA
2021-05-25 15:02:29	fuzzypixelz	I used a Python dict to map numbers to strings, I think I can use HashMap for that
2021-05-25 15:03:54	fuzzypixelz	but I was wondering if there is a better, more idomatic and stylish way to do it, rather than just spamming "numerals.insert(10, "X".to_string())"
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2021-05-25 15:04:49	fuzzypixelz	or maybe HashMap isn't the right data structure?
2021-05-25 15:05:20	guriya	Hi
2021-05-25 15:07:38	fuzzypixelz	Hi
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2021-05-25 15:07:51	davros	hashmap, because they're non ascending
2021-05-25 15:07:57	davros	fuzzypixelz, if its a constant mapping,
2021-05-25 15:08:08	davros	you could make a function that just matches to do it
2021-05-25 15:08:19	davros	i'm told that is actually an ok way to do a "constant hashmap"
2021-05-25 15:09:23	davros	"fn  numeral_to_string(i:i32)->&'static str { match i {  1=>&"I"..100=>&"C" ... } }
2021-05-25 15:09:47	davros	you need a "real hashmap" if its dynamic of course.
2021-05-25 15:10:45	fuzzypixelz	alright that works too!
2021-05-25 15:10:49	fuzzypixelz	thanks
2021-05-25 15:10:58	davros	hi guriya  you made it to the right channel :)
2021-05-25 15:11:36	davros	fuzzypixelz, you probably realised you can't declare a "const HashMap:..." because it needs to process it to set it up, rust is really strict about globals (because they're hell for multithreading)
2021-05-25 15:12:28	davros	wheras the plain "match a value" .. they have to apply whatever compiler optimizatin they can for the statically known  case.
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2021-05-25 15:13:00	davros	fuzzypixelz, i used that "plain match" idea for little format enum conversions
2021-05-25 15:13:06	guriya	hi davros want to read rust book
2021-05-25 15:13:56	guriya	davros I am also scared
2021-05-25 15:14:03	yuri6037	fuzzypixelz: there is a crate for constant hashmaps
2021-05-25 15:14:14	guriya	its very different than python and js?
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2021-05-25 15:14:36	yuri6037	phf
2021-05-25 15:14:47	yuri6037	Here try that: https://crates.io/crates/phf
2021-05-25 15:14:59	fuzzypixelz	just checking, I can't have const hashmaps (without the crate) even if it's not a global?
2021-05-25 15:15:15	fuzzypixelz	yuri6037:  I will check it out
2021-05-25 15:15:15	davros	guriya, yes Rust (and C++) require more detail than Python/JS. the extra speed does not come for free
2021-05-25 15:15:40	yuri6037	you can create a local hashmap but it won't be constant
2021-05-25 15:15:46	davros	guriya,  speed... safety... simplicity...   pick 2
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2021-05-25 15:16:00	davros	Python/JS - you get safety, simplicity , no speed
2021-05-25 15:16:14	davros	C++ you get   Speed, (relative) simplicity,   no safety
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2021-05-25 15:16:22	davros	RUst ... you get Speed, Safety.. .but it's the most complex
2021-05-25 15:16:28	guriya	https://bpa.st/KXNA   quick glace I like it but it is very different
2021-05-25 15:16:36	yuri6037	If you want a constant hashmap which will never be updated at runtime and will only be allocated once then phf is a simple way tp achieve this. Of course you could rewrite it but it's a long and complex work
2021-05-25 15:17:03	guriya	davros hmm
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2021-05-25 15:18:30	davros	guriya, but if you want to write a multicore program and expose it to the internet, and you want it fast, .. its a win over C++, because there the unsafety becomes intollerable
2021-05-25 15:18:46	davros	guriya, i would say:  single-thread, single person working on a project - C++ wins
2021-05-25 15:19:00	davros	guriya, multiple threads and multiple people working on it - Rust wins
2021-05-25 15:19:10	davros	somewhere in the middle , not sure.
2021-05-25 15:19:21	guriya	davros that motivates me
2021-05-25 15:19:27	yuri6037	Rust is not forcely complicated that depends on what you're trying to achieve and generics can help you achieve simple APIs
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2021-05-25 15:20:16	yuri6037	If you want to exclusively use winapi I'm not sure rust is a good fit cause winapi is an absolute pain even worse than in C++ or C
2021-05-25 15:20:23	davros	there are some cases where rust tools like tagged-unions do actually simplify APIs
2021-05-25 15:20:48	yuri6037	enums do help as well
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2021-05-25 15:21:03	yuri6037	actually enums can achieve simpler APIs than C++ itself
2021-05-25 15:21:06	davros	yeah thats what i mean "enum" = tagged-union
2021-05-25 15:21:13	yuri6037	oh ok
2021-05-25 15:21:15	davros	rust-enum = "tagged union" in C++
2021-05-25 15:21:48	yuri6037	Didn't know this had a name other than rust enum. I just called it rust enum
2021-05-25 15:21:54	davros	when you say "enum" it doesn't convey to a c++ programmer instantly what rust enum does, unfortunately
2021-05-25 15:22:09	davros	"rust is great because it has enums!" C++ programmer.. "huh.."
2021-05-25 15:22:22	yuri6037	yeah but C++ enums are much different to what rust enums are
2021-05-25 15:22:27	davros	exactly
2021-05-25 15:22:44	davros	in global context, the name enum is rather under-selling the feature
2021-05-25 15:23:08	davros	"global context" = "what does the average person on earth thnk when they hear this term"
2021-05-25 15:23:27	davros	there's some other names for it aswell but i'm not sure of the details
2021-05-25 15:23:37	yuri6037	I don't think it's fair to try to port rust concepts in C++. C++ has other tools which can achieve very nice APIs but as good as C++ is it will fall apart quickly when you target parallelisation
2021-05-25 15:23:47	davros	("algebraic datatypes" ,or "sum types" yada yada.. not sure of the xeact definitons)
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2021-05-25 15:24:07	davros	well you can literally make a tagged union in C++
2021-05-25 15:24:20	davros	you just have to manually make the enum and union seperately and combine them in a struct
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2021-05-25 15:24:42	yuri6037	I know how you could port something like this but it would have limitation that rust does not have
2021-05-25 15:24:51	davros	i think there's a templated 'variant' thing that tries to emualte pattern matching aswell but its very clunky
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2021-05-25 15:25:18	yuri6037	yes that's what I mean you can do similar things but it's kind of hacky
2021-05-25 15:25:19	davros	(^ the templated 'variant' does allow a tagged-union to contain RAII types properly)
2021-05-25 15:25:24	davros	yes very hacky
2021-05-25 15:25:48	davros	i'm still getting used to it really
2021-05-25 15:26:03	davros	the number of places where i have my c++ habits and i realisee "oh, i can stuff that in an enum".
2021-05-25 15:26:16	yuri6037	it's like my Rust extended generic ECS. If you attempt it in C++, you can do it but you'll have to rely on some template hacks
2021-05-25 15:27:08	yuri6037	I did initially intend writing it in C++ but when I could achieve 90% of it in Rust much quicker and safer I ditched C++ for this part
2021-05-25 15:27:20	davros	yuri6037, i seem to remember last time you were in the channel you didn't like its handling of vtables and shared mutable types ... has your opinion changed since then, it sounds like you're getting used to it
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2021-05-25 15:27:31	davros	it is taking me literally *years* to overcome c++ habits :)
2021-05-25 15:27:45	davros	i have dabbled with rust since 2013, and i've been using c++ since 1995
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2021-05-25 15:28:24	davros	so basically C++ has had 15+ years to burn itself into my head
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2021-05-25 15:30:08	yuri6037	I said 90% because part of it still is not entirely sure to be working in Rust. Included the two probems of 1- callbacks/UI engine, 2- interacting with rendering APIs and assets. In my preliminary tests for this REGECS it seem to be able to handle the second part with help of the &mut TState with TState being whatever you want including a lifetime temp struct
2021-05-25 15:30:55	yuri6037	this lifetime struct problem is important due to the nature of DirectX 11 and even 12
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2021-05-25 15:31:51	davros	i'm making an engine with some asset streaming .. rust is restrictive but re-assuring. there's ways i could do it in c++, but i have to manually remember "what i can and can't touch here or there".
2021-05-25 15:31:52	yuri6037	both of these APIs requires holding onto pointers to some device interface which means a app global &mut
2021-05-25 15:32:14	davros	i've ended up having to divide my structures up a bit more.. but overall i like the fact its machine-checkable, that its being used right
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2021-05-25 15:33:30	yuri6037	Well as long as a ref to the assets manager and a ref mut to the rendering engine can be passed each frame it should be ok
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2021-05-25 15:37:58	yuri6037	About the second problem I have currently the plan of using a advanced version of an event system. An event system which allows you to declare different types of events per scene object, and by extension pass those custom types of events to systems by components and have systems call into the scene object by using the event type. This is based on a mediator like concept but with some tweaks
2021-05-25 15:38:07	davros	i'm conscious of the added cost of mutable shared refs - so i'm trying to design somethign that minimises those
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2021-05-25 15:38:46	davros	something more like the game objects dont actually have refs, just handles, and you pass the asset-managere+handle to the rednerer..
2021-05-25 15:39:10	yuri6037	Well for now I did not have to use those shared mut refs. I will still need shared read-only refs but mutated once at creation time of the object
2021-05-25 15:39:52	yuri6037	I think it's possible to create a one time only mutable that then turns forever into a read-only reference
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2021-05-25 15:40:22	davros	currently actually what i have is objects hold an enum {  Mesh(Rc<RenderableMesh>)/*might need to change to Arc*/,   Request(Filename), None)
2021-05-25 15:40:48	davros	so there'd be a seperate pass where objects poll the asset manager (to see if their loading requests have turned up)
2021-05-25 15:41:18	yuri6037	in my case objects never loads assets directly, instead they ask assets manager to do so
2021-05-25 15:42:40	yuri6037	asset loading is a complicated process which involves parallelisation. In order to make this part simple to use assets manager will use a plugin system and load dynamic libraries at runtime in order to load a given asset format
2021-05-25 15:43:20	davros	I wont personally use any runtime plugins
2021-05-25 15:43:37	davros	i just compile into my program the formats it supports
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2021-05-25 15:43:57	yuri6037	And doing this manually even providing raw file paths is hard to use cause perhaps your file path is actually a special archive file like BPXP or even better a https resource
2021-05-25 15:46:08	yuri6037	due to these issues it's much easier to pass asset urls to the asset manager and have the asset manager translate url into std::io::Read and return the Read to a plugin for loading the proper format based on a modified mimetype where the first part <something>/ is ommited and also the non-registered mime type bpx exists
2021-05-25 15:47:39	yuri6037	Yes I don't have the resources to register a mime type: I'm not a company and I haven't got enough time to spend at writing a paper for review especially when I have a thesis and other work projects to do.
2021-05-25 15:49:01	yuri6037	davros: Oh and by the way I found the first broken crate in rust and had to do an ugly function to bypass it!
2021-05-25 15:52:09	georgemp	Hi. I'm trying to write a macro to which i can pass in a statement (or block of statements) as one of the inputs. I'm struggling a bit on what kind of param I should set it to. This is what I have at the moment https://gist.github.com/georgemp/143c4e7f881a4c57860dc296aa93c0ed
2021-05-25 15:53:03	georgemp	The compiler says the method i'm calling doesn't exist on the pointer. But, in the macro defn I'm converting the pointer to a reference (and similar code works fine when i type out the full thing)
2021-05-25 15:55:05	davros	georgemp, when i read that i was wondering if there was deref involved, which can change visibility
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2021-05-25 15:55:40	davros	like (&*foo).blah   vs   &(*foo).blah &*(foo.blah)  could all be subtely different
2021-05-25 15:56:12	davros	is it that?  (&*foo).function()   vs foo.function() ?
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2021-05-25 15:56:45	GreenJello	georgemp, foo: *const Client in the signature
2021-05-25 15:56:54	GreenJello	let $client_name = &*foo;
2021-05-25 15:56:58	GreenJello	on line 19
2021-05-25 15:58:04	GreenJello	you have it backwards, so the code in the macro doesn't see your `let client` but rather the function argument $client_name
2021-05-25 15:58:52	georgemp	GreenJello: got it..thanks :)
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2021-05-25 16:03:14	georgemp	davros: thanks for taking a look as well..it was as GreenJello said. I needed to use the fn argument in my redefinitions of the input parameter
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2021-05-25 16:16:08	guriya	davros can I ask one question...Rust uses mostly functional style?
2021-05-25 16:16:36	guriya	like haskell
2021-05-25 16:17:40	davros	guriya, i'd say rust is like C++, imperative, but can look a bit like haskell
2021-05-25 16:17:51	davros	when haskell does that, its completely different
2021-05-25 16:18:11	davros	when rust does it, its like similar to what you can do in c++, with "lazy expression templates"
2021-05-25 16:18:20	davros	haskell has real "lazy evaluation"
2021-05-25 16:18:37	guriya	I see and rust book in the website best place to start?
2021-05-25 16:19:06	davros	guriya, i call rust "imperative with functional flavour"
2021-05-25 16:19:35	guriya	davros hmm ok
2021-05-25 16:19:52	davros	guriya, i dont know where the best place to start is. I pretty much just started coding, expecting it to be like C++ , and kept on pestering people in the IRC channels when it wasn't :)
2021-05-25 16:20:17	davros	the rust playground is extremely good
2021-05-25 16:20:48	davros	guriya .. do you know what I mean by "lazy expression templates"
2021-05-25 16:21:07	guriya	I know what is lazy expression but not template
2021-05-25 16:21:16	davros	basically some of these functions ".map(|x|..)" just return a structure that represents the operation
2021-05-25 16:21:32	davros	and you call ".collect()" at the end to actually run the expression fed to it
2021-05-25 16:21:42	davros	but some of them do actually run immeidiately.
2021-05-25 16:21:59	guriya	yeah so they dont wait untillprogram ends?
2021-05-25 16:22:19	davros	the logic behind when it runs is entirely determined "inplace", like C++. it is NOT like haskell, which is true lazy-eval.
2021-05-25 16:23:06	davros	so really Rust, (like C++) is "eager eval", it just has some functions which return a structure that represent an operation.
2021-05-25 16:23:07	guriya	davros are you sure Rust dont need c++ knowledge?
2021-05-25 16:23:15	danieldg	note that rust is allowed to drop computations it can prove have no observable effect, just like C++
2021-05-25 16:23:44	davros	guriya,   Its possible knowing C++ makes learning Rust easier, but equally , some Rust people might tell you C++ will poison your expectations in some ways
2021-05-25 16:23:46	danieldg	imo, knowing C is just as useful as knowing C++ in learning rust
2021-05-25 16:23:49	davros	Rust and C++ are very similar
2021-05-25 16:24:03	davros	but subtly different
2021-05-25 16:24:15	davros	danieldg, i was wondering if there's a concept like the "uncanney valley" in programming languages
2021-05-25 16:24:36	davros	danieldg, when i observe how C++ and Rust people talk about eachothers language, and i remember the Lisp community's reaction to Clojure
2021-05-25 16:25:08	davros	"it's similar enough...... that a minor difference will annoy the hell out of you"
2021-05-25 16:25:27	danieldg	maybe.  I don't personally run into it, but I can see it happening
2021-05-25 16:25:28	davros	guriya, i would say you can defienitely learn Rust without C++.
2021-05-25 16:25:50	guriya	davros thanks
2021-05-25 16:25:54	davros	i dont know if anyone did it but you could make a side by side comparison of their most similar ideas.
2021-05-25 16:26:54	davros	guriya, rust and C++ have different defaults.. Rust will "move" (unless you tell it to copy).     C++ always copies (unless you tell it to move)
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2021-05-25 16:27:32	davros	C++ mutable default (or write 'const' ),   rust immutable default (or write 'mut' for mutable)  ... like "const = opposite of mut, deafaut = opposite"
2021-05-25 16:27:46	davros	namespaces work differently, classes work differently
2021-05-25 16:28:01	davros	rust "templates" require type bounds
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2021-05-25 16:29:17	danieldg	the biggest thing I like about rust is the transitive immutability
2021-05-25 16:29:27	danieldg	as compared to C++
2021-05-25 16:29:37	davros	yes thats one of my favourites aswell
2021-05-25 16:29:39	danieldg	and C++'s move constructors are... annoying
2021-05-25 16:30:02	davros	i generally find restrictions annoying, but the 1st restriction i saw that i really liked was "globals = unsafe{}"
2021-05-25 16:30:41	danieldg	yeah, I don't mind restrictions that I can bypass (like unsafe)
2021-05-25 16:31:16	davros	most of rusts restrcitions that i didn't like, i've learned to appreciate. like .. going back refacotring really is much easier without adhoc overloads
2021-05-25 16:31:51	davros	usize indices though..
2021-05-25 16:32:03	danieldg	and note it's safe to have a global Mutex
2021-05-25 16:32:21	danieldg	so it's just forcing thread safety on you in the end
2021-05-25 16:34:15	davros	i would kind of like a language with an implicit "per-thread globals pointer" (something thats always passed down the callstack) but i'm not sure exactly how you'd express its initializtaion for the thread func
2021-05-25 16:34:33	danieldg	davros: thread_local! in rust?
2021-05-25 16:34:40	davros	^(i gather "thread local storage" exsists officially aswell but i dont know what its restrictions are)
2021-05-25 16:34:53	davros	so thread_local! is a TLS macro i guess
2021-05-25 16:34:59	danieldg	yes
2021-05-25 16:35:18	davros	i also dont know exactly how its implemented at runtime
2021-05-25 16:35:30	danieldg	if you're familiar with pthreads, it's using local_key from that
2021-05-25 16:35:50	davros	(like.. would there be a CPU register for it, and this is useful enough for all the system libraries that it pulls its weight.. or is it heavier to access..)
2021-05-25 16:36:34	danieldg	iirc on x86, it uses the fs (or gs) segment register to access a per-TLS base pointer
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2021-05-25 16:36:52	danieldg	so a few instructions to get the address
2021-05-25 16:37:23	danieldg	the actual memory for the thread-local vars is allocated at thread creation time
2021-05-25 16:37:59	danieldg	the size to allocate is known at compile time (or maybe at link time, not sure myself how dynamic libs and tls fit)
2021-05-25 16:38:35	danieldg	but that's why it's pushed down to pthreads, becuause that integrates with dl.so
2021-05-25 16:38:51	davros	i note that a global variable which can be pushed and popped sort of does the job of "dynamic scope"
2021-05-25 16:39:12	davros	but you'd need those in TLS in a concurrent scenario
2021-05-25 16:39:29	danieldg	sure
2021-05-25 16:40:17	davros	i'm probably safer just sticking with 'pass from above' .. especially as "my prefered implementation of TLS would be a cpu reg.."
2021-05-25 16:40:33	danieldg	note that's basically how std::task::Context worked in its first release (though it's better now)
2021-05-25 16:40:58	danieldg	I think it may be a cpu reg on CPUs with more GP regs than x86
2021-05-25 16:41:15	danieldg	and fs is a cpu register, if you want to be technical :)
2021-05-25 16:42:10	davros	yeah just not a GP reg
2021-05-25 16:42:33	davros	not a gp,full width reg
2021-05-25 16:42:45	danieldg	right, because it was absurd to use one of the *6* GP regs left on x86_32 for this
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2021-05-25 16:43:47	davros	yeah under  8 regs , noway can you spare it.   16, if it could feed directly into all the system apis, i'd argue it would probably be worth having
2021-05-25 16:44:03	danieldg	and it is basically full-width, with the restriction it must be a valid pointer (so.. 48 bits wide, or 57 on the crazy 5-level pagetable systems)
2021-05-25 16:44:07	davros	(32regs.. definitely worth it)
2021-05-25 16:44:58	danieldg	also, since x86-64 already has fs and gs sitting around, why not use them and reserve the normal gp regs for more important things?
2021-05-25 16:45:18	danieldg	(and yeah, at 16 regs it's still a bit tight)
2021-05-25 16:46:27	davros	16 regs with XMM's .. i'd guess its doable but.. wouldn't be 100% confident
2021-05-25 16:46:43	danieldg	no, there are 16 normal GP regs
2021-05-25 16:46:58	danieldg	XMM is a completely different set of 16 (or 32) regs
2021-05-25 16:47:00	davros	thats what i mean 16 GP resgs, +XMMs
2021-05-25 16:47:10	danieldg	ah
2021-05-25 16:47:28	davros	any floating point code will have some of its working set  over there
2021-05-25 16:47:49	danieldg	integer code that was autovectorized too
2021-05-25 16:48:08	danieldg	or manually vectorized, but that rarer
2021-05-25 16:48:09	davros	integer code that was autovectorised (* so long as 64bit indices didn't prevent it..)
2021-05-25 16:48:39	danieldg	pretty sure that's not the primary impediment
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2021-05-25 17:54:31	davros	https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/policy/programming_languages  << policy on rust "yes in the project tree, NOT in the kernel, and NOT for end users(??????)"
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2021-05-25 18:10:11	SymbioticFemale	how do i declare variables in a manner that allows child functions to be within their scope?
2021-05-25 18:10:40	danieldg	you want a closure, not a function
2021-05-25 18:10:56	SymbioticFemale	ok. thanks.
2021-05-25 18:11:23	danieldg	you can assign the closure to a variable and it'll be just like a function
2021-05-25 18:11:37	danieldg	(though you will likely have to fully type it if you do anything fancy)
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2021-05-25 18:45:36	kpcyrd	davros: I usually simply don't take google projects seriously
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2021-05-25 19:47:15	jacklong	when shoud use dyn specifier
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2021-05-25 19:53:50	davros	its for vtable based objects
2021-05-25 19:54:43	davros	i wonder why the keyword is added though, maybe there's smething subtle
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2021-05-25 19:56:17	davros	when you make a trait name , that usually only appears in the type *bound* context, when that name appears in the *type* context, it's unambiguous that it must mean "a vtable object", and the lang can already distinguish betwen plain structus, enums, etc.. its not like we have to write 'struct' or 'enum' explicitely
2021-05-25 19:56:17	GreenJello	it makes it easier to read the code
2021-05-25 19:56:21	danieldg	it's mostly there to let you know something is unsized, because otherwise trait objects and structs are visually identical
2021-05-25 19:56:40	davros	oh unsized is otherwise explicit eg [] i guess?
2021-05-25 19:56:53	danieldg	yeah
2021-05-25 19:57:11	danieldg	it's not truly required anywhere iirc
2021-05-25 19:57:22	davros	and unsized is different because it must be combined to make a useable type?
2021-05-25 19:57:33	danieldg	no
2021-05-25 19:57:37	davros	i should point out i've used rust since it had sigils :)
2021-05-25 19:57:52	danieldg	you can't assign an unsized object to a local, only pointers
2021-05-25 19:58:02	davros	when i came to it it had ~[T]  &[T]  etc
2021-05-25 19:58:06	danieldg	though that might change in the future
2021-05-25 19:58:40	danieldg	let x : [T] = [1,2,3]; // not valid
2021-05-25 19:58:54	davros	i remember when 'Box::new(X)'  was ~X
2021-05-25 19:59:10	danieldg	that seems very confusing
2021-05-25 19:59:19	danieldg	too perl-like
2021-05-25 19:59:47	davros	danieldg, it took me literallt 5 seconds to get used to it, coming from C++ smartpointers i liked the way it "melted away" visually
2021-05-25 20:00:19	davros	but the objection was it made certain types syntactically privileged i think, plus..
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2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Topic for ##rust is "Join us @ irc.libera.chat in ##rust | Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language | Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: https://rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Topic set by ladyfriday (~robert@unaffiliated/mrmonday) on Thu, 20 May 2021 07:29:02
2021-05-25 20:00:53	--	Channel ##rust: 494 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 493 normals)
2021-05-25 20:00:55	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-05-25 20:01:05	davros	the cost is still explicit
2021-05-25 20:01:26	davros	but at the same time it doesn 'stab you in the eye' when you're trying to look at the program intent
2021-05-25 20:01:57	danieldg	I guess.  It took me a while to get used to ?
2021-05-25 20:02:18	davros	one use case where the sigils were really nice -
2021-05-25 20:02:36	davros	keeping an enum base size low, with the extention parts in an allocation
2021-05-25 20:03:02	davros	like   enum Foo{   SmallVariant(a,b,), LargerLessCommon(a,b,~(c,d,e)), ... }
2021-05-25 20:03:55	danieldg	that would annoy me far more than your u32 pet peeve
2021-05-25 20:04:08	davros	also throwing closures around.. fact is there's just times when you want to write logic that does use allocations. Imagine having a systems langauge but thats also more tolerable for casual code
2021-05-25 20:04:40	davros	anyway it is just syntax and
2021-05-25 20:05:00	davros	i figure if push comes to shove, i could make a syntactic fork of rust :)
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2021-05-25 20:05:45	davros	the ~ sigil was nice because it expressed the same idea between vectors, box, strings..   ~str  &str  ~[T]  &[T] ~T, &T
2021-05-25 20:06:41	davros	and i would havae been ok with those just happening to be mappings to a few 'blessed tpyes' (Vec<T> etc) inthe same way "fn add(&self,x)" is + etc
2021-05-25 20:07:07	davros	oh now i remember.. the  biggest reason for changing it was to make thigns google-able, and thats fair
2021-05-25 20:08:30	davros	its funny ther'es a few other requests i had where it turns out rust had it in an earlier incarnation
2021-05-25 20:08:38	davros	i wondered why (T,T,T) and [T;3] are distinct
2021-05-25 20:08:52	davros	turns out there really was a time when (T,..3) worked
2021-05-25 20:09:18	davros	i always thought that was a waste of the [] chars. "just make a homogenous tuple array indexable"
2021-05-25 20:09:29	davros	"and it'll keep the [] for other uses"
2021-05-25 20:10:10	jacklong	may I ask what topic  are you talking about
2021-05-25 20:10:39	davros	jacklong, ~ is somethng rust used to have back in 2013-2014 when i discovered it :)
2021-05-25 20:11:11	davros	it was a shorthand for allocated types
2021-05-25 20:11:23	jacklong	:P
2021-05-25 20:11:29	davros	(strings, vectors and boxes)
2021-05-25 20:11:45	davros	for me it was like this..
2021-05-25 20:11:56	davros	"look at these ugly smartpointers they want us to use in modern C++, fuck that"
2021-05-25 20:12:21	davros	"wow look at rust - they've got nice conventient inbuilt syntax for the smartpointers! thats awesome" (a year later) "WERE TAKING THAT OUT"
2021-05-25 20:13:46	danieldg	I like that no_std rust has no allocator and still supports all rust syntax
2021-05-25 20:13:53	danieldg	that would not be true with ~
2021-05-25 20:13:59	davros	thats certainly true
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2021-05-25 20:15:18	db48x	I need to draw some curly brackets around some stuff that varies in size, a bit like in math notation
2021-05-25 20:15:33	db48x	anyone know of a rust crate that can draw metafonts or something to a 2d surface?
2021-05-25 20:15:58	danieldg	how are metafonts different from normal fonts?
2021-05-25 20:16:29	danieldg	I know of font rendering crates
2021-05-25 20:17:05	danieldg	oh, you mean like the LaTeX extending brackets?
2021-05-25 20:17:15	db48x	TeX’s metafonts are based on strokes, rather than outlines
2021-05-25 20:17:22	db48x	yes, exactly like them
2021-05-25 20:17:49	danieldg	interesting question
2021-05-25 20:17:55	danieldg	sorry, I have no answer
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2021-05-25 20:18:22	db48x	no worries :)
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2021-05-25 20:22:09	db48x	this is not what I was looking for, but it’s quite fun: https://bfnightly.bracketproductions.com/wasmtest/dwarfmap/
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2021-05-26 03:59:39	jacklong	what is the log link
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2021-05-26 04:04:31	Mutabah	None in the topic, so I assume there is none?
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2021-05-26 04:37:02	yuri6037	Hi I have a question about cargo and rustfmt: currently rustfmt stable version is absolutely useless nearly no config works. Is there a way to install rustfmt-nightly such that cargo fmt defaults forever to rustfmt-nightly even though the default compiler is stable?
2021-05-26 04:43:17	bertptrs	rustfmt has an option to allow nightly config, but last I checked there was no progress on getting anything merged as people can't agree where the config should go
2021-05-26 04:44:20	yuri6037	so there is no way to replace cargo fmt to always point to the nightly rustfmt?
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2021-05-26 04:45:34	yuri6037	The problem is cargo +nightly is not portable: try it under IntelliJ, there are no options to set per command nightly, in IntelliJ it's either full nighly or full stable. VsCode requires complicated additional configs to force +nightly
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2021-05-26 04:47:09	bertptrs	you don't need cargo +nightly to use nightly rustfmt options
2021-05-26 04:47:36	yuri6037	cargo fmt just throws arning and ignores nightly options
2021-05-26 04:47:57	yuri6037	so I though I need nightly to get it to work
2021-05-26 04:48:07	bertptrs	Set unstable_features = true in your rustfmt.toml and everything should just work
2021-05-26 04:49:13	yuri6037	Not working: Warning: can't set `unstable_features = true`, unstable features are only available in nightly channel.
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2021-05-26 04:49:52	bertptrs	Huh, that used to work
2021-05-26 04:50:13	yuri6037	now it's not anymore apparently
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2021-05-26 04:52:13	bertptrs	sadness
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2021-05-26 04:55:24	yuri6037	I tried to reinstall rustfmt and now it broke clion completely
2021-05-26 04:55:39	yuri6037	rustfmt --emit=stdout --edition=2018 stdout : Unrecognized option: 'emit'
2021-05-26 04:56:07	yuri6037	why did rustfmt remove emit option?
2021-05-26 04:56:40	bertptrs	what version of rustfmt do you have?
2021-05-26 04:57:02	bertptrs	mine has it (1.4.30)
2021-05-26 04:57:03	yuri6037	well even worse cargo intsall broke rustfmt completely
2021-05-26 04:57:11	yuri6037	This version of rustfmt is deprecated. Use rustfmt-nightly. Use --force to run deprecated rustfmt.
2021-05-26 04:57:27	bertptrs	you might've accidentally installed a really old one
2021-05-26 04:57:33	yuri6037	now cargo fmt has been replaced by this garbage message
2021-05-26 04:57:52	yuri6037	I've just tried reinstalling: cargo install rustfmt --force
2021-05-26 04:58:45	bertptrs	that installs the rustfmt crate, which is not the official rustfmt anymore
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2021-05-26 04:58:54	bertptrs	It is 3 years old and at version 0.10
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2021-05-26 04:59:00	yuri6037	what should I install then?
2021-05-26 04:59:27	bertptrs	either fix your toolchain with rustup, or use whatever you used to install the rest of the toolchain
2021-05-26 04:59:34	bertptrs	I don't know what you did, you broke your system
2021-05-26 04:59:35	yuri6037	if rustfmt crate is no longer working I think it should be removed
2021-05-26 05:00:01	bertptrs	crates aren't removed, ever, per policy, legal issues excluded
2021-05-26 05:01:28	yuri6037	Well so that means anyone that wants rustfmt might just brick it's install like I just did and they'll be doomed to either never use rustfmt anymore or reinstall the entire system to get rid of traces of rust? Well that's nice
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2021-05-26 05:02:39	bertptrs	No need to be this hostile. People won't want to help you this way. Goodbye
2021-05-26 05:02:55	yuri6037	You just told me my install was bricked
2021-05-26 05:03:21	yuri6037	Like I ask you what should I install and you tell me well good luck you're doomed
2021-05-26 05:03:22	jbg	that's just a statement of fact based on the evidence you gave. it's not a personal attack...
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2021-05-26 05:04:04	bertptrs	also I said broke, not bricked. broke can be fixed if you adopt a more reasonable attitude.
2021-05-26 05:04:06	jbg	the whole rustfmt situation is a bit of a mess. you could lend a hand to help, or you could go on IRC and complain about it, or you could just deal with it
2021-05-26 05:04:36	yuri6037	What's the problem with this rustfmt?
2021-05-26 05:04:47	jbg	the fact that the only useful version is the nightly one
2021-05-26 05:05:09	jbg	I usually do `rustup +nightly component add rustfmt` and then use `cargo +nightly fmt`. it works perfectly for me, and adding `+nightly` is not much of a hardship. you could always make a shell alias if it bothers you.
2021-05-26 05:05:20	yuri6037	What? nightly but it was complaining of nightly being missing
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2021-05-26 05:05:43	jbg	sorry, I can't parse that sentence. what do you mean?
2021-05-26 05:06:00	yuri6037	the main problem is many ides expect to find cargo fmt
2021-05-26 05:06:22	jbg	I never used an IDE that didn't let you customise the command (mostly for this exact reason)
2021-05-26 05:06:26	yuri6037	I need a way to make cargo fmt ALWAYS redirect to nightly version which I don't even know how to install
2021-05-26 05:06:30	jbg	but I didn't use that many IDEs, so *shrug*
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2021-05-26 05:06:42	jbg	I guess if you are that specific about how you want to solve the problem, you'll have to come up with your own solution
2021-05-26 05:06:57	yuri6037	You can't do this?
2021-05-26 05:06:58	jbg	e.g. write a wrapper script for cargo that adds +nightly if fmt is in the args
2021-05-26 05:07:09	jbg	you can solve your problem, but not in the very specific way that you demand to solve it
2021-05-26 05:07:49	jbg	if you insist on creating additional constraints that don't need to exist (like not using your IDE's existing capability to customise the fmt command), you're responsible for meeting them
2021-05-26 05:09:03	yuri6037	I can't even install rustfmt-nightly package currently my install is bricked no way to run rustfmt anymore
2021-05-26 05:09:15	jbg	do you want help with this situation or did you just come here to vent?
2021-05-26 05:09:20	bertptrs	You don't even listen. Muted
2021-05-26 05:09:38	yuri6037	I would like help if you can help me fix it
2021-05-26 05:09:54	yuri6037	I just wanted to reinstall it in case it was bugged but now it's much much worse
2021-05-26 05:10:01	jbg	the first thing to do would be to stop with the random complaining and start providing information about what you did and what error message you got
2021-05-26 05:10:21	yuri6037	As I said to bertptrs I just cargo install rustfmt --force
2021-05-26 05:10:27	jbg	nobody gives a shit how much your install is "bricked" or that you "can't do X", we want to know what you did and what error you got
2021-05-26 05:10:41	yuri6037	As I said to bertptrs I just cargo install rustfmt --force
2021-05-26 05:10:43	jbg	ok, so first things first, that command (which you presumably guessed?) does not install a recent version of rustfmt unfortunately
2021-05-26 05:10:50	jbg	bertptrs already told you that
2021-05-26 05:10:58	jbg	did you read his message or do you just write and not read?
2021-05-26 05:11:03	yuri6037	Yes I know and he told me my install was them doomed
2021-05-26 05:11:11	jbg	well, no he didn't, but never mind that
2021-05-26 05:11:28	yuri6037	Quote: either fix your toolchain with rustup, or use whatever you used to install the rest of the toolchain
2021-05-26 05:11:30	yuri6037	I don't know what you did, you broke your system
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2021-05-26 05:11:41	jbg	yes, no mention of "doomed" anywhere there? are you ok? are you seeing things?
2021-05-26 05:11:55	jbg	you said "I can't even install rustfmt-nightly package". that is the part I was referring to when I said you should provide error messages rather than just saying "I can't do X"
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2021-05-26 05:12:10	yuri6037	"you broke your system" => sorry I don;t wana reintsall popos especially with my mobo
2021-05-26 05:12:25	jbg	you are taking words *way* too literally
2021-05-26 05:12:57	yuri6037	I understood this last sentence as doomed and get another copy of linux and spend weeks at re-configuring mobo defects
2021-05-26 05:13:00	jbg	if you're going to ignore all the parts where I try to help you and just keep complaining then I'm also going to ignore you
2021-05-26 05:13:46	yuri6037	Sorry if I wrongly understood that sentence
2021-05-26 05:14:00	jbg	do I need to repeat what I said above or are you going to read it and respond to it?
2021-05-26 05:14:15	jbg	the part where I try to actually help you solve your problem, that is
2021-05-26 05:14:19	osse	Doesn't all this just boil down to "you have to run  rustup component add rustfmt" ?
2021-05-26 05:14:42	jbg	I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that yuri6037 probably doesn't use rustup
2021-05-26 05:14:45	yuri6037	Well this command never got told to me before
2021-05-26 05:15:18	jbg	I was working my way to that when I asked you to explain what you meant by "I can't even install rustfmt-nightly package" but despite asking twice you just ignored it
2021-05-26 05:15:33	jbg	and you can't really say you never saw this command before, it's literally at the top of the rustfmt README
2021-05-26 05:15:34	yuri6037	Of course I use rustup otherwise vscode would refuse to work. VSCode rust extension does not work on standard ubuntu packages
2021-05-26 05:15:41	jbg	which is the first result on google for "rustfmt"
2021-05-26 05:16:12	jbg	very glad to hear you use rustup
2021-05-26 05:16:19	jbg	so why were you trying to install rustfmt with `cargo install rustfmt`?
2021-05-26 05:16:43	yuri6037	Well when I see commands like cargo <subcommand> my first try is cargo install
2021-05-26 05:17:09	yuri6037	I did not know anything about rustfmt until CLion prompted me to try it
2021-05-26 05:17:12	jbg	that's fair enough, but when it didn't work did you consider even just typing rustfmt into your favourite search engine and learning how to install it?
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2021-05-26 05:18:30	yuri6037	I actually did not that much think of getting docs about it
2021-05-26 05:18:33	jbg	wild guesses followed by complaining on IRC that you guessed wrong and it's everyone else's fault, while a popular approach, is not really the best way to solve any problem
2021-05-26 05:18:53	yuri6037	I complained when I saw the sentence I quoted before
2021-05-26 05:19:23	jbg	anyway, now that you ran rustup +nightly component add rustfmt you should be able to do cargo +nightly fmt
2021-05-26 05:19:35	yuri6037	Like asking what should I install and getting as answer "broke my system" is not very helpful
2021-05-26 05:19:39	jbg	then all you have to do is tell your IDE to use that for formatting rather than plain `cargo fmt`
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2021-05-26 05:19:48	jbg	which varies by IDE but I've always found it to be possible
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2021-05-26 05:21:24	yuri6037	Well only if IDE can do it turns out CLion does not accept to change rustfmt command. It's stuck to cargo fmt but that's another problem. Currently I still have an issue where rustup component add rustfmt still says it's installed. Is there a way to tell rustup to reinstall the component?
2021-05-26 05:21:32	yuri6037	Like apt --reinstall?
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2021-05-26 05:22:38	vorner	rustup component remove && rustup component add (or some such commands, I haven't checked the exact names right now)
2021-05-26 05:22:57	jbg	have you ever heard of this really useful flag you can pass to most commands that tells you how to use them?
2021-05-26 05:23:03	jbg	and yeah, you remove and then add
2021-05-26 05:23:17	jbg	and remove and add are the correct names
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2021-05-26 05:24:51	jbg	yuri6037: btw, CLion does support changing the rustfmt command. I bet you can learn how in 30 seconds or less of searching.
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2021-05-26 05:25:12	bertptrs	mate you have the patience of a saint
2021-05-26 05:25:14	yuri6037	Really I must have bad luck it still does not work now it says error: no such subcommand: `fmt`
2021-05-26 05:25:44	yuri6037	About CLion will do this later first step is to repair the bad rustfmt
2021-05-26 05:26:16	jbg	if you installed it on the nightly toolchain and CLion is trying to use it on the stable toolchain then that's why you have that error
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2021-05-26 05:26:33	jbg	if CLion is just running `cargo fmt` (which it is), then you need to do `rustup component add rustfmt` without +nightly
2021-05-26 05:27:30	yuri6037	no I just tried to rustup component remove rustfmt then add it again and it did not install the cargo fmt command
2021-05-26 05:28:44	jbg	without +nightly right?
2021-05-26 05:28:49	yuri6037	yes
2021-05-26 05:28:52	jbg	maybe your `cargo` is not the cargo from your rustup
2021-05-26 05:29:00	yuri6037	as I said I will install nightly after
2021-05-26 05:29:06	jbg	e.g. maybe you're running cargo installed from your package manager rather than from rustup
2021-05-26 05:29:40	yuri6037	the thing is in ~/.cargo/bin there is no rustfmt
2021-05-26 05:29:52	yuri6037	and no cargo-fmt
2021-05-26 05:30:32	yuri6037	The bins however exists in ls ~/.rustup/toolchains/1.41.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/bin/
2021-05-26 05:30:56	jbg	is that your default toolchain?
2021-05-26 05:31:06	jbg	it's very old
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2021-05-26 05:31:27	yuri6037	Only two folders exists in toolchains: 1.41.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu  stable-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
2021-05-26 05:31:37	jbg	`rustup default stable && rustup update stable`
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2021-05-26 05:32:47	yuri6037	no actions performed it says "unchanged"
2021-05-26 05:33:00	yuri6037	stable-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu unchanged
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2021-05-26 05:33:41	jbg	oh, you might want ; rather than && there
2021-05-26 05:33:49	yuri6037	Sounds like some old rust is installed on this system. Well I remember install rust on that computer in 2020
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2021-05-26 05:34:06	jbg	maybe it exists with non-0 if it was a no-op, dunno
2021-05-26 05:34:11	jbg	anyway did it update your stable toolchain?
2021-05-26 05:34:26	jbg	it sounds like it was installing rustfmt to 1.41 while default was stable
2021-05-26 05:34:30	yuri6037	yeah I've just ran the two commands one after the other both said stable-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu unchanged
2021-05-26 05:35:00	jbg	do you also have rustup, cargo etc installed via your system package manager?
2021-05-26 05:35:08	jbg	usually when I see messes like this it's caused by mixing things
2021-05-26 05:35:42	yuri6037	no on that system no previous install existed until rustup from the wget like command
2021-05-26 05:35:48	jbg	do `which rustup`, `which cargo`
2021-05-26 05:36:14	<--	justanotheruser (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:36:21	yuri6037	v    /home/X/.cargo/bin/rustup
2021-05-26 05:36:31	yuri6037	sorry chat software bug
2021-05-26 05:36:42	yuri6037	thinking lines starting with / = command
2021-05-26 05:36:57	jbg	and cargo as well?
2021-05-26 05:37:07	yuri6037	v    /home/X/.cargo/bin/cargo
2021-05-26 05:37:22	jbg	seems fine
2021-05-26 05:37:30	yuri6037	both are from .cargo as I expected as no previous installs existed on this computer
2021-05-26 05:37:49	jbg	you can usually just put an extra / at the start of the line btw
2021-05-26 05:37:51	jbg	/see
2021-05-26 05:38:00	jbg	depends on the irc client
2021-05-26 05:38:14	yuri6037	oh ok thank you I did not know that after not sure olari does this
2021-05-26 05:38:17	yuri6037	let me try
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2021-05-26 05:38:40	yuri6037	no bad luck "Unknown command" sounds like polari is not smart enough
2021-05-26 05:38:43	jbg	not sure what's going on with your rustup setup. you could always blow away ~/.cargo and ~/.rustup and install rustup again. I can't imagine it got into this state on its own though
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2021-05-26 05:39:53	yuri6037	Ok now after rerunning rustup component add rustfmt it worked
2021-05-26 05:40:15	yuri6037	perhaps the rustup default conmmand did something
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2021-05-26 05:41:19	yuri6037	now install nightly rustfmt
2021-05-26 05:46:09	yuri6037	Thanks for the help. nightly now works as well and as I expected it's far far better than the cargo fmt which I would consider completely broken
2021-05-26 05:46:27	yuri6037	It's not even able to handle allman style braces wheras nightly does it
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2021-05-26 05:54:40	jbg	you realise that they are the same thing right?
2021-05-26 05:54:44	jbg	one is just a newer version than the other
2021-05-26 05:55:04	yuri6037	I know but the truth is the stable version in it's state is useless to me
2021-05-26 05:55:08	jbg	it's "completely broken" in the sense that, say, the 1990s was "completely broken" because we didn't have Rust yet
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2021-05-26 06:18:10	db48x	that was a pretty ridiculous conversation
2021-05-26 06:19:46	jbg	yep.
2021-05-26 06:20:45	bertptrs	reading just half of it was fun
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2021-05-26 06:22:29	db48x	heh
2021-05-26 06:22:38	db48x	announcer voice: next week on Tales of Tech Support…
2021-05-26 06:22:57	PaulWebster	I just  woke up  to raw pandemonium, almost 16 of the 18 channels I was in shut down forcefully and users being randomly k-lined
2021-05-26 06:23:08	PaulWebster	this was one of the ones that was not, what happened
2021-05-26 06:23:35	db48x	this one is already an unofficial channel
2021-05-26 06:23:54	db48x	only official channels that mentioned a certain new irc network that is in fashion these days got nuked
2021-05-26 06:23:57	PaulWebster	yeah  unofficials was closed to
2021-05-26 06:24:06	PaulWebster	several  people klined
2021-05-26 06:24:26	PaulWebster	anything that had they was moving to libera in topic got force  closed basically
2021-05-26 06:24:46	PaulWebster	some of them pretty large to like #perl
2021-05-26 06:24:53	PaulWebster	and that was  the official channel
2021-05-26 06:25:34	<--	Thijs (~Thunderbi@217.67.224.106) has quit (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:26:25	PaulWebster	ah well least all of them moved to libera, but wow what a way to spite your community with no warning
2021-05-26 06:26:30	PaulWebster	what you gusy up to
2021-05-26 06:26:33	PaulWebster	guys*
2021-05-26 06:28:11	<--	gareppa (~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 06:28:22	db48x	watching B5
2021-05-26 06:28:51	PaulWebster	ah I was thinking of watching an old classic today 'Rab C Nesbitt'
2021-05-26 06:29:04	<--	corvax (~corvus-co@unaffiliated/corvax) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-05-26 06:29:38	PaulWebster	and also trying to figure out how I can get a shower into the house we just moved into, it only has a bath at present - which is fine but not exactly ideal when you  need a quick wash before a meeting or such
2021-05-26 06:31:02	-->	genieliu (~genieliu@103.37.140.25) has joined ##rust
2021-05-26 06:31:38	db48x	I think the usual method involves pipes
2021-05-26 06:32:24	PaulWebster	I was considering going for one of those mixer taps, the combi boiler in this place is pretty good - get a decent pressure
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2021-05-26 06:32:28	PaulWebster	rather than changing any core pipework
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2021-05-26 06:38:24	mort	well, I'm off to the libera.chat channel
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2021-05-26 06:56:00	yuri6037	Found a fix for CLion to use nightly rustfmt all the time: ln -s ~/.rustup/toolchains/nightly-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/bin/rustfmt ~/.cargo/bin/
2021-05-26 06:57:55	PaulWebster	actually come to  think of it yeah I am off to libera as well catch you over on ##rust its only you guys and #freebsd left on the freenode side :o
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2021-05-26 06:59:13	yuri6037	What is libera?
2021-05-26 06:59:19	yuri6037	Is it an IRC server?
2021-05-26 06:59:25	j`ey	yes
2021-05-26 06:59:30	j`ey	see the topic
2021-05-26 06:59:52	yuri6037	how do I read the topic?
2021-05-26 07:00:00	j`ey	 /topic
2021-05-26 07:00:15	j`ey	anyway the server is irc.libera.chat ##rust
2021-05-26 07:00:35	yuri6037	oh nice will try connecting that one as well
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2021-05-26 07:02:37	yuri6037	It does apparently work out of the box on Polari
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2021-05-26 10:24:59	Ellipsis753	Hi. I'm trying to speed up CircleCI by caching. Is it safe to cache ./target and ~/.cargo between different computers/versions/Cargo.lock files? Is there anything else I should be caching?
2021-05-26 10:26:16	danieldg	it's not useful to cache between compiler versions
2021-05-26 10:26:27	danieldg	at least for target
2021-05-26 10:26:34	danieldg	(~/.cargo is safe)
2021-05-26 10:27:10	j`ey	danieldg: are you going to join the new server?
2021-05-26 10:27:27	danieldg	it's on my todo list
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2021-05-26 10:35:08	Ellipsis753	danieldg: Ok. If I put a check in for the version of cargo and the arch, would it then be safe to share target?
2021-05-26 10:35:25	j`ey	its safe to share without
2021-05-26 10:35:40	j`ey	but once you change version/target, the cache wont be helpful
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2021-05-26 10:36:09	Ellipsis753	j`ey: Ok. That's great. I'm sure the cache will help 99% of the time then. :)
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2021-05-26 10:53:31	lhx	how has this channel survived?
2021-05-26 10:53:41	lhx	they stol my channel, they stole #emacs...
2021-05-26 10:53:54	j`ey	it's ##. maybe
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2021-05-26 12:01:06	viny	Is there a cfg one can use to exclude tests when executing under miri?
2021-05-26 12:03:42	ladyfriday	cfg(miri)/cfg(not(miri))?
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2021-05-26 12:03:53	ladyfriday	https://github.com/rust-lang/miri/#using-miri
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2021-05-26 12:06:14	viny	...
2021-05-26 12:06:15	viny	thx
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2021-05-26 13:03:36	davros	this rust repeat macro thing  .. invocation $( blah $x),*    <<< supports "any token" in the "," slot?     seems to work, just checking..
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2021-05-26 15:59:05	SinkingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░▀█▀░░░░█▀█░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█▀█░█▀█░█▀▄░█▀▀
2021-05-26 15:59:09	SinkingFreenode	░█▀▄░░░░░█░░░░░█▀▀░░░░░░█▀▀░█▀▄░█▀▀░█▀▀░█░█░█░█░█░█░█▀▀
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2021-05-26 15:59:13	SinkingFreenode	░▀░▀░▀░░▀▀▀░▀░░▀░░░▀░░░░▀░░░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀░░▀▀▀
2021-05-26 15:59:14	SinkingFreenode	.
2021-05-26 15:59:16	SinkingFreenode	██████╗    ██╗   ██████╗     ███████╗██████╗ ███████╗███████╗███╗   ██╗ ██████╗ ██████╗ ███████╗
2021-05-26 15:59:17	--	Mode ##rust [+q *!*@gateway/tor-sasl/leavfreenode] by ChanServ
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2021-05-26 15:59:52	jeaye	As pretty as I'm sure that would've been, it's spam.
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2021-05-26 16:00:12	ladyfriday	I'm impressed it took so long
2021-05-26 16:00:19	GreenJello	someone rudely quit in the middle of the message
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2021-05-26 16:00:38	ladyfriday	also apparently they were too obvious, because staff got to them before I did
2021-05-26 16:00:50	 *	jeaye did.
2021-05-26 16:00:54	ladyfriday	ohhh
2021-05-26 16:01:00	ladyfriday	nice, thanks
2021-05-26 16:01:32	ladyfriday	I should probably brush up on doing stuff with ChanServ rather than opping myself to do it
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2021-05-26 16:21:06	georgemp	I am trying to write a generic callback sig for different return types from Rust. is there a reasonable value i can map a rust fn's `return;` or () to in the C world?
2021-05-26 16:21:15	georgemp	reasonable type
2021-05-26 16:21:44	georgemp	right now i am just translating that to a dummy u8 value..but, it feels wierd to do that
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2021-05-26 16:28:10	db48x	georgemp: void
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2021-05-26 16:29:19	georgemp	db48x: doesn't void preclude me from having other paramters in the fn sig? I should have clarified my generic version is "extern fn "C" (T, *mut c_void, ExternError) - the latter two being for user_data and error
2021-05-26 16:30:06	georgemp	maybe i can do void* and pass in a null_ptr
2021-05-26 16:30:36	INSANU	hey guys, how can I implement a Hash function for a recursive tree struct? something like https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=764b0621726da4a16e3d0f4ed8a0ea26
2021-05-26 16:32:24	db48x	georgemp: weren’t you asking about the return value?
2021-05-26 16:33:14	db48x	a Rust function that returns () or ! is equivalent to a C function that returns void
2021-05-26 16:33:53	GreenJello	INSANU, hash val, for each of left an right, either hash None, or Some(&TreeNode)
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2021-05-26 16:37:05	INSANU	GreenJello: mind to share a scratch?
2021-05-26 16:37:29	georgemp	db48x: this code snippet probably explains what i'm trying to do better :) https://gist.github.com/georgemp/441049c041e8dd08c24f67f6d31ed88f I'm taking the return value of an async fn and passing it to a C callback fn. So, in the case when the async fn returns nothing, i'm trying to figure out what to set the correspondign callback type. I could set up a second type of callback, but, am trying to do
2021-05-26 16:37:31	georgemp	it a bit generically.
2021-05-26 16:38:34	GreenJello	INSANU, try to implement it
2021-05-26 16:39:01	db48x	georgemp: there’s a lot to unpack there
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2021-05-26 16:42:48	georgemp	db48x: on line 30, $fetch is the equivalent of an async fn that will return a Listing. So, in this case, my C completion handler on line 9 takes in a *mut Listing as it's first param. So, I'm trying to figure out what to set that param on line 9 to, when the $fetch call returns () or nothing
2021-05-26 16:44:58	db48x	ok. you could just omit the argument
2021-05-26 16:46:35	INSANU	GreenJello: something like this? https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=628b5b3e8d6c5eccb41536a8706cb36e
2021-05-26 16:47:14	GreenJello	INSANU, yes, but you also want to hash the None in an else for each
2021-05-26 16:48:16	georgemp	db48x: yeah..but, then i could no longer(i think) use my generic wrapper from line 41? i'm trying to see if i can just reuse that wrapper instead of defining a new one..
2021-05-26 16:48:48	GreenJello	else { None::<()>.hash(state); } is probably sufficient
2021-05-26 16:49:42	GreenJello	or I guess None::<&TreeNode>.hash(state); is a bit better
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2021-05-26 16:51:09	db48x	georgemp: well, I guess you could continue to use *mut Listing, and then just rely on the C function you’re calling not dereferencing it if the other parameter indicates success
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2021-05-26 16:53:38	georgemp	hmm...that seems to be open to accidental errors :) i'd prefer to just pass a u8 or something (and not worry about accidental use)
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2021-05-26 16:54:20	georgemp	can't i pass a std::ptr::null_mut() to a *mut c_void? compiler says it's expecting a c_void
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2021-05-26 16:55:01	j`ey	georgemp: you should be able to
2021-05-26 16:55:12	j`ey	but c_void sounds like it isnt a *mut c_void?
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2021-05-26 16:55:39	db48x	well, it’s C. accidental errors are par for the course
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2021-05-26 17:02:34	georgemp	j`ey: thanks..my error was elsewhere (another location where a diff fn was expecting a c_void instead of a *mut c_void. So, passing this std::ptr::null_mut() to it was failing :)
2021-05-26 17:03:00	georgemp	it *compiles* now
2021-05-26 17:03:04	j`ey	yay
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2021-05-26 18:03:31	raekye	Hi, noob rust question. Say I have a Vec<Box<Foo>>. Elsewhere, I have Bar which I want to have a reference/pointer to some Foo in the Vec
2021-05-26 18:03:57	raekye	With my (limited) understanding, this seems impossible since (if Vec is mutable) the Box<Foo> may be dropped
2021-05-26 18:04:28	raekye	Is this correct? Is there an idiomatic way to work around it?
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2021-05-26 18:05:02	raekye	E.g. currently I have Bar storing indexes into Vec<Box<Foo>>, but it's getting kinda clunky to accesses the Foo's inside the Vec
2021-05-26 18:08:44	GreenJello	raekye, yeah, indexes are a common way to deal with that
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2021-05-26 18:10:13	GreenJello	the other straight forward option is to wrap the item in RefCell or Mutex
2021-05-26 18:10:42	GreenJello	if you don't need to modify the Vec, but only items inside of it
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2021-05-26 18:11:27	raekye	GreenJello: I see, thanks!
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2021-05-26 22:51:33	jacklong	is the lifetime of input param outside of the function
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2021-05-26 22:51:48	jacklong	which is reference param
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2021-05-27 00:22:42	jacklong	 how can I return reference of local variable to caller
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2021-05-27 03:25:12	jacklong	what is the diff between copy and clone
2021-05-27 03:25:50	Mutabah	Copy is a language construct that states that a move doesn't invalidate the source
2021-05-27 03:26:14	jacklong	so clone os deep copy ?
2021-05-27 03:26:18	Mutabah	`Clone` is a trait/method that calls arbitary code to create a new instance
2021-05-27 03:26:20	jacklong	is
2021-05-27 03:26:24	Mutabah	clone is as shallow as possible
2021-05-27 03:26:46	Mutabah	(That only really matters with shared ownership, e.g. Rc/Arc - where Clone will just increment the reference count)
2021-05-27 03:29:02	jacklong	if it can be droped ,why cannot copy it
2021-05-27 03:29:30	Mutabah	A `Drop` impl implies that something is being managed by that type that the compiler can't see
2021-05-27 03:29:43	Mutabah	so allowing trivial copies would lead to two objects thinking they're managing that
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2021-05-27 03:31:18	jacklong	good ,
2021-05-27 03:31:28	jacklong	what do you mean by  " the compiler can't see"
2021-05-27 03:32:06	jacklong	implicit deconstructor
2021-05-27 03:32:07	jacklong	?
2021-05-27 03:32:20	Mutabah	Doesn't matter actually... providing a destructor means that a trivial copy isn't possible
2021-05-27 03:32:27	Mutabah	because the destructor implies something is being managed
2021-05-27 03:32:39	Mutabah	so a trivial copy would lead to two objects managing the same thing
2021-05-27 03:33:41	jacklong	is the copy "deep copy" ?
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2021-05-27 03:43:38	Moomoc	I have a const A: &str and a const B: &str. I've got a type that requires format!("{}{}"), A, B), so the strs joined. It doesn't need to be String so I am wondering can this be nowadays done during compile time, e.g. by const fns?
2021-05-27 03:46:17	Lumpio-	To my understanding no, there's no way to create a new "&str" in a const fn, and if somebody knows how please let me know as well
2021-05-27 03:46:31	Lumpio-	Or any way to create and return a variable length thing
2021-05-27 03:47:19	Lumpio-	There's concat!() which works with literals and could be useful in a macro, but you can't concat two const str's just knowing their name
2021-05-27 03:48:02	Moomoc	Lumpio-: It sort of makes sense, but since both values are static str, it's merely a concatenation for the copiler. But maybe it's simply not possible.
2021-05-27 03:48:03	Lumpio-	(And by "new \"&str\"" I mean one where the length is variable and calculated based on something else)
2021-05-27 03:48:23	Moomoc	Lumpio-: yes, concat! I know, thanks
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2021-05-27 09:57:55	guriya	Hi writig rust regularly can improve my python writing at office?
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2021-05-27 10:28:55	conkker	you should kick everyone with a Moved to #... on libera message
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2021-05-27 10:43:25	guriya	 /kick conkker
2021-05-27 10:43:51	OvermindDL1	Lumpio-: There is actually a way to concat strings at const time, that's to treat them as array's, put them next to each other in memory via a struct or so and copy them in, then make a new slice out of that, it's horribly `unsafe` but it works, the https://crates.io/crates/const-concat does just that as a macro
2021-05-27 10:44:43	Lumpio-	OvermindDL1: Well that's an amazing hack
2021-05-27 10:45:04	OvermindDL1	I thought you might enjoy seeing that, lol
2021-05-27 10:45:51	OvermindDL1	there's another crate that does the same for arbitrary (`Copy`) const arrays as well
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2021-05-27 10:50:35	davros	guriya writing rust is overkill a for python scenario . writing rust can help your C++ :)
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2021-05-27 10:53:16	guriya	davrosbut c++ and python similar languages right? objected oriented and imperative
2021-05-27 10:53:31	guriya	althought python is more high level
2021-05-27 10:54:48	Lumpio-	OvermindDL1: That has given me an idea for an absolutely horrible hack related to embedded USB
2021-05-27 10:55:16	OvermindDL1	Lumpio-: I have to say I'm curious as your idea?
2021-05-27 10:55:20	OvermindDL1	at*
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2021-05-27 10:56:26	Lumpio-	I've been wanting to generate USB descriptors at compile time with certain requirements and not being able to create a variable length array without build.rs/procmacros has been a blocker
2021-05-27 10:56:49	Lumpio-	And this is the first hack for making a variable thing with purely const fns and macro_rules macros
2021-05-27 10:57:41	Lumpio-	that I've seen anyways
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2021-05-27 11:15:44	OvermindDL1	Cool
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2021-05-28 05:59:49	INSANU	hey guys, I am trying to use a HashMap<Rc<RefCell<TreeNode>> without success, maybe you guys can point me out what I am doing wrong here. https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=55a9d892110319a27b8e32a2d291cf9f line 78
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2021-05-28 07:33:24	bertptrs	INSANU: RefCell doesn't implement Hash, regardless of what its contents implement
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2021-05-28 07:39:14	bertptrs	It also wouldn't make sense if it did, you can't have a hashmap with mutable keys. You would invalidate your map instantly
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2021-05-28 18:15:21	basenode	hello
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2021-05-28 20:57:25	Dresden	does this work?
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2021-05-28 21:24:53	yates	what is the "gz" column here? https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/rust.html
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2021-05-28 21:50:42	Roughy	gzipped file size?
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2021-05-29 18:04:50	neirac	I'm trying to debug a rust program that fails with file not found should just I go straight to gdb or there other options available?
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2021-05-29 18:37:48	bertptrs	lldb exists. as does the dbg! macro
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2021-05-29 21:41:33	SergioB	It sounds the program is already telling you what's wrong, though.
2021-05-29 21:41:39	SergioB	Oh, this is an old message. Carry on.
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2021-05-30 02:18:11	pendarsoheil	I am learning about Rust and attempting to make a FFI call to a .dll I have compiled. So far outputing Hello World works. I am now trying to output a string but I get `doesn't have a size known at compile-time`
2021-05-30 02:18:31	pendarsoheil	Just learning about Rust so a _pointer_ in the right direction would be helpful
2021-05-30 02:19:01	pendarsoheil	I understand that the heap does not know how to allocate for a String it does not know the length of
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2021-05-30 03:40:43	pendarsoheil	Nevermind.
2021-05-30 03:40:48	pendarsoheil	Fixed
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2021-05-30 04:40:41	Arnik__	I have two file with following paths : 1 : "src/store.rs" 2: "src/models.rs". I tried to to use one of my struct from the models.rs in store.rs, but when I export it with "pub mod models", compiler give me an error that it did not found it. eventhough I can export it in main.rs without problem. what is the correct way of doing this?
2021-05-30 04:42:08	Arnavion	`mod models;` in your main.rs, then `crate::models::Whatever` in store.rs
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2021-05-30 04:47:43	Arnik__	Arnavion: Hooray, It worked
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2021-05-30 05:26:40	jacklong	does the pointer of a struct point to the vt of it
2021-05-30 05:29:39	Mutabah	no
2021-05-30 05:29:57	jacklong	what is that
2021-05-30 05:30:06	Mutabah	the vtable pointer for a struct is stored as part of the "Fat pointer" when you refer to it as a trait object
2021-05-30 05:30:26	Mutabah	(i.e. `&SomeStruct` is one pointer - the data, while `&dyn SomeTrait` is two - the data and the vtable)
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2021-05-30 05:34:46	Mutabah	jacklong: Did that help?
2021-05-30 05:37:12	jacklong	how can I get the vtable pointer
2021-05-30 05:37:24	Mutabah	for what purpose?
2021-05-30 05:37:39	jacklong	no
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2021-05-30 05:40:02	Mutabah	You mean "no specific purpose" (i.e. just curious)?
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2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Topic for ##rust is "Join us @ irc.libera.chat in ##rust | Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language | Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: https://rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Topic set by ladyfriday (~robert@unaffiliated/mrmonday) on Thu, 20 May 2021 07:29:02
2021-05-30 09:11:30	--	Channel ##rust: 355 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 354 normals)
2021-05-30 09:11:32	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-05-30 09:13:59	englosh	Hello. Can someone review this tiny second formatting function? Are the calculations correct? https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/8d89ce31ad704dae86dd0a361bc22f6f
2021-05-30 09:14:43	englosh	It's supposed to display the second duration as an HH:MM:SS format
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2021-05-30 11:04:52	jellie	Is there some kind of rust refresher online? I'm a bit rusty and I need to get up to speed ASAP
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2021-05-30 11:20:44	Lumpio-	A bit rusty you say
2021-05-30 11:24:19	jellie	Lumpio-: :)
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2021-05-30 13:06:19	Labu	Hi
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2021-05-30 13:08:45	Labu	Is it possible to get an enum variant from its value ? says I have this Enum: { A=1, B=2} I need to get Enum::A when 1 is provided ans B when 2 is. Is it possible to do that ? Or do I need to write a function for that ?
2021-05-30 13:08:59	j`ey	write a function
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2021-05-30 13:11:36	Labu	ok thx
2021-05-30 13:11:59	j`ey	or there's some crates, i think enum-derive or primitive-enum or something
2021-05-30 13:12:33	Labu	yes I have seen that
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2021-05-30 16:19:20	georgemp	is it possible to know the variant of an union (so, as to do cleanup in a custom Drop impl)?
2021-05-30 16:19:47	bertptrs	you can match it?
2021-05-30 16:20:25	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/items/unions.html#unions-and-drop
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2021-05-30 16:20:57	j`ey	bertptrs: no tag, so you cant match
2021-05-30 16:21:53	GreenJello	didn't know #[repr(u32)] was a thing
2021-05-30 16:22:06	georgemp	j`ey: the last line on that says "Like for structs and enums, it is possible to impl Drop for a union to manually define what happens when it gets dropped"
2021-05-30 16:22:19	georgemp	so, was wondering how we'd go about doing that if we couldn't match on it
2021-05-30 16:23:29	j`ey	I dont think you can?
2021-05-30 16:25:49	georgemp	hmm....so, is that bit of the reference incorrect? or, am i misunderstanding that statement/
2021-05-30 16:26:19	Lumpio-	The reference is correct, it's possible to implement Drop
2021-05-30 16:26:27	Lumpio-	Whether it's possible to implement it *correctly* depends on your union.
2021-05-30 16:26:41	j`ey	you can impl it... but I guess you cant know which it was..
2021-05-30 16:26:42	j`ey	wait..
2021-05-30 16:26:49	Lumpio-	It's conceivable that you might be able to figure out what to drop by looking at some field, but often not.
2021-05-30 16:27:19	j`ey	https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/items/unions.html#pattern-matching-on-unions dunno what this does
2021-05-30 16:27:36	Lumpio-	It reads f1 and checks if it's 10
2021-05-30 16:27:38	Lumpio-	Otherwise it reads f2
2021-05-30 16:27:59	georgemp	well..i tried pattern matching, but unless you specify a value for a variant, the compiler will just match everything to the first variant
2021-05-30 16:28:00	j`ey	so if you did: f1: 0xsomepointervalue, it might match that first
2021-05-30 16:28:10	j`ey	georgemp: right, because there's no tag
2021-05-30 16:28:24	Lumpio-	Maybe the real question is, can *you* figure out whether to drop something in your union or not?
2021-05-30 16:28:29	Lumpio-	Without extra data?
2021-05-30 16:28:41	Lumpio-	If not, you could just use an enum
2021-05-30 16:28:52	j`ey	i assume it's a union for FFI
2021-05-30 16:29:01	georgemp	yes..it's for FFI
2021-05-30 16:29:28	georgemp	using a combination of enum (tag) and union (value) to represent a rust enum with associated values
2021-05-30 16:29:44	Lumpio-	Does it also have a struct to combine those?
2021-05-30 16:29:48	georgemp	yes
2021-05-30 16:29:56	Lumpio-	You could implement Drop for the struct
2021-05-30 16:30:06	Lumpio-	And not leak the union in the safe interface
2021-05-30 16:30:12	Lumpio-	A union can't be used safely anyways.
2021-05-30 16:31:10	georgemp	let me try that out..thanks
2021-05-30 16:32:02	Lumpio-	That manual page even has an example for that case btw
2021-05-30 16:33:17	georgemp	but, the types in the union on the manual page are copyable types (which is kindof similar, and doesn't require a drop impl)
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2021-05-30 16:35:05	Lumpio-	It says they can also be a ManuallyDrop wrapped type
2021-05-30 16:43:07	georgemp	https://gist.github.com/georgemp/59325be92a381b783c8f14431a92fa31 - this is my naive ffi implementation for my rust enum. The FFI C repr struct COAuthDelegateCommand i think is copyable, and, will cause trouble if i just pass it around (i guess if i defined drop for it, each copy would end up trying to free the union)
2021-05-30 16:43:50	georgemp	let me try working ManuallDrop into it, but,this solution is getting quite complicated..if there are better ways to do this, would appreciate the input :)
2021-05-30 16:44:51	Lumpio-	This is exposing something in Rust to C?
2021-05-30 16:45:54	georgemp	yes
2021-05-30 16:46:24	georgemp	the enum on Line 2 - OAuthDelegateCommand
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2021-05-30 16:47:31	georgemp	it's sent to a C callback fn that is stored in a separate tokio spawned task (which awaits a value on a tokio::sync::mpsc::Receiver)
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2021-05-30 16:54:28	Lumpio-	georgemp: What I was asking was, are you making these FFI structs to call into C library from Rust, or are you making a Rust library that should be able to be called from a C program?
2021-05-30 16:54:34	Lumpio-	into a C library*
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2021-05-30 16:58:04	georgemp	making a rust library that should be able to be called from a C program
2021-05-30 16:59:35	Lumpio-	ah
2021-05-30 16:59:57	Lumpio-	One idea if things start becoming a bit too crazy is now to expose your Rust types at all but only expose opaque pointers and accessor methods
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2021-05-30 17:11:34	georgemp	i'm mostly exposing opaque pointer, but, i still need to clearly demarcate whether the pointer is owned by Rust or across the bridge by C. In this case, i am struggling to define a clear owner of the data, and, hence am struggling to cleanly drop it
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2021-05-30 17:20:42	danieldg	if you can't decide who owns it, maybe you need refcounting
2021-05-30 17:21:22	danieldg	expose take/put operations to C
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2021-05-30 17:24:06	georgemp	hmm..i don't need shared ownership tho. i'm trying to just assign one side of the bridge as the owner of the struct
2021-05-30 17:25:11	danieldg	then pick one and stick with it
2021-05-30 17:25:57	danieldg	if rust isn't managing a list of structs then it probably belongs owned by the C part
2021-05-30 17:27:12	danieldg	in general, libraries pass ownership out to their clients
2021-05-30 17:32:51	georgemp	thanks..i was overthinking it. I think i just need to not have a Drop impl for COAuthDelegateCommand, and instead have a fn freeCOAuthDelegateCommand (that will be called from the C side once it's done with it) - https://gist.github.com/georgemp/59325be92a381b783c8f14431a92fa31
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2021-05-31 15:54:24	soyer	just starting with rust, (|i| Ok(i == 11)) <- what does this |i| mean? some kind of "catch" of the result?
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2021-05-31 15:54:56	soyer	where can i read about it?
2021-05-31 15:55:40	j`ey	soyer: it's a closure
2021-05-31 15:57:01	soyer	thx, found it in docs now
2021-05-31 15:58:55	soyer	sort of similar to lambda in python?
2021-05-31 15:59:18	j`ey	yes
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2021-06-01 05:39:32	Feuermagier	so, are we moving to libera?
2021-06-01 05:40:07	Mutabah	A channel already exists, see the topic
2021-06-01 05:40:18	Mutabah	(huh, odd that this didn't get hit by the great purge, must be because it's a ##)
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2021-06-01 06:07:03	Bish	what malloc() does rust use by default normal glibcs ones? why do the "fast ones" exist anyways
2021-06-01 06:07:27	Mutabah	I believe the current default is to use the system malloc
2021-06-01 06:07:38	Bish	system means glibc in this case?
2021-06-01 06:07:38	Mutabah	so, glibc on non-musl linux targets
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2021-06-01 08:13:23	jellie	is there something that can automatically fix case for me?
2021-06-01 08:13:33	jellie	For warnings such as  convert the identifier to upper camel case: `WavefrontsPenaltiesOddPairPenalties`
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2021-06-01 08:32:20	Feuermagier	jellie, a python script should do the job
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2021-06-01 08:32:53	Feuermagier	jellie, we are over at libera.chat btw
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2021-06-01 08:35:02	jellie	Feuermagier: Okay I'm coming there
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2021-06-01 13:59:18	INSANU	is there any sorted structure available in std rust? which I could insert an element and it already sorts it =)
2021-06-01 13:59:37	j`ey	BTreeMap
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2021-06-01 14:00:24	j`ey	hm, i guess not actually
2021-06-01 14:00:39	j`ey	but Vec has a binary_search method, so its pretty easy to do
2021-06-01 14:07:06	emerent	a BTreeSet is sorted, but it only allows unique values
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2021-06-01 15:39:39	georgemp	Hi. When modelling a enum with associated values over FFI as a struct composing a tag and value (https://gist.github.com/georgemp/59325be92a381b783c8f14431a92fa31) - how would i go about representing the CaseWithoutAssociatedValue inside the Value union? just use a dummy u8 or would there be a better way?
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2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Topic for ##rust is "Join us @ irc.libera.chat in ##rust | Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language | Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: https://rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Topic set by ladyfriday (~robert@unaffiliated/mrmonday) on Thu, 20 May 2021 07:29:01
2021-06-01 20:39:32	--	Channel ##rust: 326 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 325 normals)
2021-06-01 20:39:34	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-06-03 07:21:31	todda7	hello
2021-06-03 07:21:38	todda7	How to do this in paralllell?
2021-06-03 07:21:39	todda7	http://ix.io/3oDQ
2021-06-03 07:22:10	todda7	I want to iterate over the rows in parallell
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2021-06-03 08:32:44	egeyar	hello! what is the canoical way of pushing an item option to a vector?
2021-06-03 08:32:59	egeyar	a better version of the following:
2021-06-03 08:33:00	egeyar	if let Some(item) = option {
2021-06-03 08:33:00	egeyar	    vec.push(item);
2021-06-03 08:33:00	egeyar	}
2021-06-03 08:33:32	egeyar	preferably a single line version of this.
2021-06-03 08:33:35	egeyar	?
2021-06-03 08:35:23	egeyar	let me try and_then...
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2021-06-03 08:43:11	egeyar	huh, so map does what I was looking for.
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2021-06-03 08:44:24	egeyar	but clippy asks me to revert back to "if let Some..."
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2021-06-03 09:47:41	emerent	egeyar: you could also treat the option as a 0-or-1-item collection: vec.extend(option);
2021-06-03 09:48:06	emerent	this channel has moved to the libera irc (see topic)
2021-06-03 09:48:29	emerent	please move there
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2021-06-03 10:02:07	egeyar	thanks emerent! clippy seems to be happy with that one :)
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2021-06-03 12:24:34	Kumool	nonrust user here, I've tried cargo install package, but I've run out of space in /tmp, is there a way to tell cargo to use another TMP directory?
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2021-06-03 12:51:25	Arnavion	Kumool: It uses the output of   https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/std/env/fn.temp_dir.html
2021-06-03 12:52:11	Arnavion	ie   TMPDIR=/whatever cargo install ...
2021-06-03 12:53:39	Kumool	I should've known, nice, thanks!
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2021-06-03 12:54:18	Kumool	I did look in https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/reference/environment-variables.html and it wasn't there so I was worried
2021-06-03 12:55:34	Arnavion	Well the temp directory is kind of a "global" env var, as opposed to the rustc- / cargo-specific env vars which that page documents
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2021-06-03 13:38:36	Kumool	welp, I know rust is robust, but I've seen many tools ignore environment variables
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2021-06-04 22:19:49	caryyon	has anyone ever interacted with IRC with rust before. have an idea but don't know if it's viable.
2021-06-04 22:20:44	Mutabah	IRC is a simple protocol, so likely
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2021-06-04 22:22:56	caryyon	trying to see if i can automate some irc bot searches to a javascript frontend
2021-06-04 22:23:05	caryyon	time to get reading the IRC specs
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2021-06-05 08:08:05	rayyyy	hi
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2021-06-05 11:09:27	whereistejas	Hi, everyone! I'm looking for rust open-source projects contribute to... I'm a newbie at Rust, so, I would really appreciate getting to work on more real-life code
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2021-06-05 11:11:29	danieldg	whereistejas: search github for 'rust'?  It's kind of a vauge criteria so far
2021-06-05 11:12:12	danieldg	maybe identify what kind of programming you want to do
2021-06-05 11:12:53	danieldg	(gui, game, web backend, web browser, math/ml, ...)
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2021-06-05 11:18:35	whereistejas	danieldg: something related to web backend, probably
2021-06-05 11:19:27	whereistejas	i would love to work on something related to blockchain
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2021-06-06 11:42:34	Zoohouse	Hello everyone. Looking for a little guidance to understand how to use a library. I would like to use the ffprobe crate (https://docs.rs/ffprobe/0.1.0/ffprobe/index.html) but it doesn't have examples in the docs. I added it to my cargo. I see it has one fn ffprobe(path) -> Result<FfProbe, FfProbeError> ok so I figured I have to use ffprobe::{Ffprobe, FfProbeError}; since the function returns a Ffprobe type or FfProbeError in case of an error. I
2021-06-06 11:42:35	Zoohouse	get an error when I try to use the library... My code: https://pastebin.com/rkpCGyWa  the error: https://pastebin.com/m9KwPHB2
2021-06-06 11:45:54	Zoohouse	I have ffprobe installed on my linux sys
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2021-06-06 12:09:24	Zoohouse	Got to leave
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2021-06-06 12:11:30	dcompoze	I've encountered a project with a dependency declared as "version = 0.6.x" does anyone know what the `x` does? I couldn't find any information about it - is it like a glob * pattern?
2021-06-06 12:28:43	GreenJello	dcompoze, I'm not actually sure where semver matching is specified (for any language), but npm has a semver package that documents "X-Ranges" (ctrl-f here: https://www.npmjs.com/package/semver ) as x, X, and * meaning the same thing
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2021-06-06 12:29:33	GreenJello	very unlikely it differs in Rust
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2021-06-06 13:24:07	dcompoze	@GreenJello Thanks, that's most likely it.
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2021-06-06 13:47:50	rascul	dcompoze maybe this is useful   https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/reference/semver.html
2021-06-06 13:48:35	rascul	or this one  https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/reference/resolver.html#semver-compatibility
2021-06-06 13:49:09	rascul	from the second link "0.0.x versions can be used for packages that are permanently unstable."
2021-06-06 13:53:14	SpaceManiac	https://docs.rs/semver/1.0.3/src/semver/parse.rs.html#184-194
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2021-06-06 14:21:43	dcompoze	Great, that explains it - thanks for the links
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2021-06-06 21:08:34	Zoohouse	Hello everyone. I have this code: https://paste.rs/GTF and I don't see why () is returned instead of the interger
2021-06-06 21:13:48	GreenJello	Zoohouse, if the iterator is empty, your code doesn't return anything, which isn't valid
2021-06-06 21:14:06	GreenJello	if that can't happen, then add an unreachable!() after the loop
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2021-06-06 21:17:19	Zoohouse	GreenJello... I see, let me take a closer look
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2021-06-06 21:21:16	Zoohouse	GreenJello, adding unreachable!() fixed it
2021-06-06 21:22:02	Zoohouse	Oh I get it now
2021-06-06 21:22:09	Zoohouse	I see it, thank you GreenJello!
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2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Topic for ##rust is "Join us @ irc.libera.chat in ##rust | Unofficial channel for the Rust programming language | Playground https://play.rust-lang.org/ | Discord http://discord.gg/rust-lang | Forum https://users.rust-lang.org | Code of conduct: https://rust-lang.org/conduct.html | TL;DR: be nice and we'll get along just fine"
2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Topic set by ladyfriday (~robert@unaffiliated/mrmonday) on Thu, 20 May 2021 07:29:01
2021-06-07 18:09:20	--	Channel ##rust: 309 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 308 normals)
2021-06-07 18:09:22	--	Channel created on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:50:50
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2021-06-09 20:41:27	davros	is this place active
2021-06-09 20:42:43	davros	regarding compile times, is there a blog or something describing how much caching the compiler might be trying to do- and how much it could do .   Seems to me that with bound templates and sane grammar the languatge should have a better theoretical ceiling for compile times than c++
2021-06-09 20:43:36	davros	i guess rust library crates  boil down to being something like precompiled headers under the hood?
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2021-06-09 22:30:50	Disconsented	davros> they've moved over to libera
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2021-06-09 22:59:44	davros	Disconsented, the other place seems to be down thats why i asked here hah
2021-06-09 23:00:15	Disconsented	Im in there
2021-06-09 23:00:16	Disconsented	 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2021-06-09 23:00:36	davros	oh 'need to be identified' over there now it seems
2021-06-09 23:01:49	Disconsented	sounds about right
2021-06-09 23:06:34	davros	ok got it sorted.
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2021-06-10 17:31:09	vasilakisfil	hello, if I have a $name:ident in a proc macro, is there a way to convert that to a string in order to use it in a format! ?
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2021-06-10 18:59:20	emerent	vasilakisfil: stringify!($name)
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2021-06-11 21:08:20	runk_knullhora	 ╰⋃╯ 屪  B==D~  （@ㅅ@） <--- titties. This message has been endorsed by the official libera.chat staff. Updaes on the rasengan situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRDRFWNLrDk
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2021-06-11 22:59:21	runk_knullhora	HI!
2021-06-11 22:59:53	runk_knullhora	Can anyone please explain how they managed to code this super computer with rust? https://youtu.be/DzGoo4W77g8?t=35
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2021-06-11 23:04:01	Mutabah	... wut?
2021-06-11 23:04:46	runk_knullhora	Mutabah: amazing, right? I was shocked too! Looks like rust has a place in the aero space tech industry!
2021-06-11 23:06:33	runk_knullhora	FUCK.. is this network really that fucking dead?
2021-06-11 23:06:38	Mutabah	No, I mean - that seemed to be a completely unrelated video
2021-06-11 23:06:39	runk_knullhora	everyone went for that fucking libera server?
2021-06-11 23:06:46	runk_knullhora	Mutabah: did it make you horny?
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2021-06-12 01:24:33	w0x12ef	how to detect one object deal whatever traits ?
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2021-06-12 22:56:19	--	Mode ##rust [+iPFf #rust] by ChanServ
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked V ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked meppl ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked _zxq9_ ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked major_majors ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked Melon_Bread ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked chachasmooth ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
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2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked colwem ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
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2021-06-12 22:58:26	<--	OperServ has kicked Inoperable ((Clearing) Staff re-opened #rust)
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2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Topic for ##rust is "Channel Automatically Registered by PlasmaStar"
2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Topic set by PlasmaStar (plasma@ipv6.PlasmaStar.Net) on Mon, 14 Jun 2021 21:30:20
2021-06-19 11:12:44	--	Channel ##rust: 2 nicks (0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normals)
2021-06-19 11:12:48	--	Channel created on Mon, 14 Jun 2021 20:51:09